# hurting, looking for men's advice with similar please please



## Arkansas

long story

I married at 25 years old an 18 year old, wonderful person in 1995. Home schooled, as a young girl sexually abused. We had a daughter in 1999, lost a child in 2000 and had a son in 2001. She and I never did fight, and we also never really communicated well. I've always known that. No warning signs of an issue, she never told me her feelings much. Fast forward to 2013 and in that spring her Dad was diagnosed with kidney cancer. He came to live with us, and died on Christmas day of that year. Tough 5 months. She spiraled into a massive depression that nobody could help with. She grew distant, would not seek counseling. In 2015 she wanted to start college. In 2017, she wanted this group of friends, all guys, to study with and I agreed. She had become a runner, had male friends, it was an easy ok. I trusted her 100%. 

Spring 2018 she graduated community college, moving on to a 4 year degree. This one kid from that group hung around. We'd helped several women by bringing them into our home who had marital issues etc, and she said this kid was like our own. In fact, she had at the time, my 19 year old daughter dating this 21 year old. As 2018 progressed, I noticed only like twice a linger in a hug of a touch, she easily lied those away. I never looked for things, didn't really suspect. Just didn't like the kid hanging around 3 nights a week. 

Spring 2019, she went for a traditional yearly camping trip with all women friends/family. The day before she went to prep at a farm they camp on, at a bluff her and I spent many a magical night on. She slipped that evening and said "we" when talking about the day .. and it was the Kid with her. I was not happy. When the weekend ended I said enough, no more him around, he's hurting our marriage and wants to get in your pants. Deny, lies, ya'll know that. 

For the next 6 weeks I was ever more suspicious. I almost caught them one day at a lake she ran out all the time. On May 2, 2019, I was home early for some spontaneous surprise passion and caught an incoming text that said how much he loved her. It took 3 hours of asking before she finally admitted an emotional/sexual affair. I was stunned. I thought maybe at the most kissed him.

So starts my real story. We started counseling, and I had planned a weekend getaway to reconnect. On that getaway she reached out to him. Later I'd find out every day she did. I found out she was meeting him in the mornings, recording things on a zip drive, letters and notes. The audio files I found through bugging her vehicle were terrible to hear. A man shouldn't hear his wife speaking to someone else that way. 

I'd asked her what could I do and she said help her through summer school. I had asked her to not see him or communicate ever again and she broke that promise the next day I later found but me? I worked hard, from 5:30 to 9:00 pm at night with cooking breakfast, driving her to classes, working out with her. She had an internship and because of a GPS tracking device I'd attached to her truck, I found out she was still meeting him. The truck I bought her then because our car was something they'd done things in and I couldn't stand it. I bought her a $1000 iphone on my July birthday. Counseling was hard, because I was told things I'd been doing wrong all the years. I am a person of action, my acts define my love. She never wanted that, I never knew that my caring and loving wasn't ever enough. 

In Sept after summer school finished, we went to FL for a 5 day trip and it was fantastic. When we got back, I had a means to view her texting and found an email she'd sent a friend. Devastating, the most amazing words to describe this 21 year old and their magical, once in a lifetime love. It crushed me hard

But I didn't leave. I stayed, I tried. Credit to her, she did wane from seeing/talking to him as far as I know, and things got better. 

Nov 1st I sat her down and though she'd once asked me to forgive her (not serious because she went back to him the next day) I forgave her for it all. I needed it. I'd dropped to 145 pounds, I was unhealthy as a person and my soul was. That night I offered her a chance to come clean on anything, and she said when I was out of town with my son, she'd have him over spending the night at my house. So ... for 7 months she held that huge lie, lying about it constantly. I forgive her.

I went on a trip and came back Nov 10 and told her and the counselor I was done with weekly counseling for 2 reasons. #1, I was told every week I needed to change, we never talked about her. #2, I didn't want a life where I could talk to my wife 1 day a week between 2 and 3 pm. I drew a heart and said this is mine, and you want it 100% and she said yes. I drew a box in it and said this is your heart and that's the adultery in the middle and she said yes. I said I cannot live with that.

We spoke of it again twice in Dec, both time her saying she couldn't give me 100% of her heart. During this time, she entered 1 on 1 abuse counseling and I encouraged it. 

3 weeks ago, I saw text messaging from the kid, and she said she has no idea how his phone was unlocked. I found out she was "following" him on a social media page and he her, and they could see each others pics. She said she has no idea how that happened.

The final nail, as she told me she didn't if she wanted to stay married. I had legal documents written up that would have given her about 15% of our worth (which isn't much, but she's had $2500 a month to finish school)

She was mad about it, said she felt like she was worthless, cheap and not valued. She came back and said she wanted 50% of everything and I said no way. We talked about where she was, where I am, and she says she doesn't want a divorce, can't take my offer, I can't take hers .... today I moved into a spare bedroom. There is silence here.

Our counselor said, in 18 years, she'd never seen a man as heartbroken as I was. I know who I was as a husband, and she and I both contributed to a marriage that while good, wasn't great, but her choice to affair was all hers and that destroyed our marriage.


I see no resolution. She has no fight for me at all. While accepting her choices are wrong, she'd say but she wants to hold it in her heart as beautiful and wonderful. I cannot live with that. 


What I am asking ... has anyone had a marriage end like that? Where 24 years, the woman just goes crazy, has an affair with a 21 year old kid, blames everyone, rewrites our marriage past almost to justify her actions, has a husband who tries for 8 hard months everything he can to stay ............ I fought SO hard. I have forgiven her. She is at a place and will not change, and I can't live with how she has become as much as I still love her.

Why did she do it all? I'll never know, she sure didn't have enough love for me not to, no consideration, no respect. More baffling, she had me fighting hard for her for the most part, when it should have been her fighting for me. 


I'll say this - 100% trust and faith is supposed to be given but when its violated? wow ... there is nothing like it, because it shatters the soul. She was a very religious young woman, always the highest morals and ethics. Kind, generous, someone everyone admired. After her Dad died she changed, her sister and brother both used the same words - broken. I admit I was unable to reach her and I stopped trying. My faults were never knowing how to comfort her, and her not telling me I wasn't, I just thought I was doing enough.

I have grown as a person in these 8 months, I am capable of massive changes for her. But its over now, and I'm still crushed


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## uhtred

I think it can be made simple: She cheated on you and left you. That means that she never was the wonderful person you thought she was. Its a terrible blow, but the reality is that the person you loved never really existed in the first place. 

Find someone worthy of you.


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## aquarius1

when someone does things that are not "normal" for them, not "normal" for expected human behaviour, our view of the world is turned upside down.
We begin to doubt our view of reality, our world implodes.
It is a very, VERY difficult reality to face. 
Please give this some time. Your reality has been rewritten, I suspect this is what you are dealing with. 
It can shake you to your core.
Be gentle with yourself right now. Seek counselling please to help you come to terms with this.
The first time the counsellor starts to even HINT that you had some responsibility in this, change counsellors IMMEDIATELY.
If you can, go to a gym or workout or whatever exercise you can do.
Limit your contact with her to absolute BARE MINIMUM. You need time to come to terms with this and heal.
When you are ready, you will file for divorce.


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## Marduk

Me? No, I didn't have that happen.

But my ex did emotionally and physically abuse me, cheat on me, and then leave me... all with no explanation, and no acknowledgment that she did anything wrong.

So while I can say that I wasn't probably as heartbroken as you, and was a lot younger, it did suck.

But then I rebuilt my life, and would never ever regret the fact that she left. I'm glad she did, because she did me a favour by getting herself the hell out of my life.

If you want help rebuilding, this is the place. But I don't think you're going to get any advice here about how to get back with a lying, cheating, emotionally abusive wife that will just do those things more to you, and has probably already done it to a number of other guys.


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## Hopeful Cynic

Arkansas said:


> What I am asking ... has anyone had a marriage end like that? Where 24 years, the woman just goes crazy, has an affair with a 21 year old kid, blames everyone, rewrites our marriage past almost to justify her actions, has a husband who tries for 8 hard months everything he can to stay ............ I fought SO hard. I have forgiven her. She is at a place and will not change, and I can't live with how she has become as much as I still love her.
> 
> Why did she do it all? I'll never know, she sure didn't have enough love for me not to, no consideration, no respect. More baffling, she had me fighting hard for her for the most part, when it should have been her fighting for me.
> 
> 
> I'll say this - 100% trust and faith is supposed to be given but when its violated? wow ... there is nothing like it, because it shatters the soul. She was a very religious young woman, always the highest morals and ethics. Kind, generous, someone everyone admired. After her Dad died she changed, her sister and brother both used the same words - broken. I admit I was unable to reach her and I stopped trying. My faults were never knowing how to comfort her, and her not telling me I wasn't, I just thought I was doing enough.
> 
> I have grown as a person in these 8 months, I am capable of massive changes for her. But its over now, and I'm still crushed


Yup, your situation has many many parallels with mine. After two decades of what I thought was a good relationship, my ex found someone two decades younger than us, kept it secret for over a year until I figured it out, and then took the affair underground while claiming to be working on our marriage. And it certainly felt like I was doing all the work.

Some people are just broken and don't value their integrity as much as they do their desires. Having an affair meant she had TWO men to admire her, you on the home-front, supporting her schooling and doing her chores, and this kid on the side to make her feel young again.

Your wife is selfish, and is willing to cause you pain, the person she vowed to love and honour most, so that she can get those heady limerence feelings from this kid.

It might seem like her father's death was a catalyst, and it was, but not in the 'broken' sense. His death triggered her feelings that life is short, that she should throw caution to the wind and go after what she wants, no matter who it hurts.

This isn't your fault. She took the beautiful gift of your loyal love, and threw it away.

If you're like me, you'll never be able to trust her again. That's no basis for a marriage. Start the divorce process, and with it, start healing.

You loved the person you thought your wife was. Now that she's shown you she's an evil twin who murdered that dream, grieve your loss and move on.


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## Spicy

Wow, she has treated you brutally and cruel. I am so sorry for all you have been through. Please don’t ever let her convince you to take her back again.


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## MattMatt

Child sex abuse victims often, not always, do what your wife has done. 

Have you told your children and your family? You really should.


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## aine

@Arkansas, so sorry but it really is time to move on. She put a bomb under your marriage and made the choice with eyes wide open. Work on yourself, get as much therapy as you need, become the best man you can be and get divorce papers and move on. She does not deserve your love nor time.


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## Diana7

My now husbands first wife of 23 years met another man and had an affair. Like you he found it hard to believe that she could act that way, like your wife she largely excused it and blamed him, don't accept that, you sound as if you were a good and supportive husband.

You gave her chance after chance after chance, but she has acted appallingly. Don't accept the excuse that she was abused, I know many people who were abused as children who are faithful loving spouses. 

Just to give you some encouragement, my husband and I are in a happy 14 year marriage, and he is loved by a woman who has never and would never cheat and he trustsme 100%. So yes its devastating but you will get though it and come out the other side as we have done and many here have done.


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## Arkansas

Hopeful Cynic

That's very much how it goes.

I offered a separation/divorce and she said it wasn't enough. She wants 1/2 of everything which seems incredibly unfair. I WANT to end this nice, but .... I lost my wife, I'm losing her family which I've been close to, I'm 51, I'll be alone, ... I wanted something I could say hey, I got a little win of some kind out of this. 

So she doesn't like my offer, I don't want to give half. I moved into a spare bedroom, minimal contact, I took control of all our finances and in the coming days I am going to get off any/all credit cards that has her name. My lawyer said make it uncomfortable, don't be a butthead too much .... its so against my nature to that. For 24 years I've done everything for her with her and ..... its hard. 

I was cold last night in bed. I had no one to snuggle to. Its crushing

I want her to settle with me, give me something, and go. I want to rebuild my life somehow. truth is .... I wanted her to fight for me, to rediscover her love for me ..... its not going to happen, so here we are


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## wilson

Arkansas said:


> I offered a separation/divorce and she said it wasn't enough. She wants 1/2 of everything which seems incredibly unfair.


Based on her actions, I doubt being fair is very high on her list of priorities. There are many other things she's done which are very, very unfair. I'm surprised she's only asking for 50% instead of the full 100%. But from a legal standpoint, is there any reason she wouldn't get 50%? We all understand the unfairness of that, but you may be fighting an extremely difficult uphill battle if you try to get a settlement where she only gets 15%.

Some states consider adultery as part of the divorce. Is your state one of those? Maybe that would be a consideration if so.


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## Tilted 1

Arkansas said:


> I wanted something I could say hey, I got a little win of some kind out of this.


You will your self respect. And all things you seek will come. Believe if you must on her reasons for doing this, but it just simply a flaw she has. Your not to be blamed. She's the f***up and good riddance to her. She'll never ever be good enough for you. There's not enough hot water to clean her. 

Do tell the family and don't expect much consideration from them, not to worry she'll make you out to be the bar guy. Get your shark lawyer and speed up the process, like yesterday and do take half of your wealth and put it into a separate account noting it to your lawyer. 

Shake this feeling for her, she's hot for the 21 yr old, so your 51 and she close to that what in God's green earth make you think some ahole of a kids wants to see a old woman every day it will be short lived and then will want to come back to the comfort of steady and reality. Don't let her back in and due tell the children and her friends and even the stupid kids parents. Just to get yourself off a bit. 

Lasted why would you want this thing back? She's one of the worse beings out there. And you're better off without that anchor dragging in the mud.


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## Arkansas

legally yeah, after a long battle she'd probably get 50% minus all the costs of her lawyer etc

there is another cost ... the damage a long battle would do to our kids, to our families, everyone would know just the depths of what she did .......... I thought that would have value

I guess I thought after 24 years, after all she's done to me .... maybe she's have a soft place left to give me something


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## red oak

$2500 a month for school?

Did all that go for school, or was baby boy finding a sugar momma?

ETA: Do you have and accounting for those expenses?
If she was spending on the boy might could help regarding divorce proceedings and the amount she could get. 

Does she really want her affair to be spoken of in court for all the world to hear of her character?


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## Tilted 1

Arkansas said:


> legally yeah, after a long battle she'd probably get 50% minus all the costs of her lawyer etc
> 
> there is another cost ... the damage a long battle would do to our kids, to our families, everyone would know just the depths of what she did .......... I thought that would have value
> 
> I guess I thought after 24 years, after all she's done to me .... maybe she's have a soft place left to give me something


Nothing say more than a woman gone!! She's not into you anymore tell the kids and show them you are above her trash level. Don't worry your kids will love you just for trying as you have already done. They know they would not want a spouse who does this to them. It really that simple.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

@Arkansas, there is nothing here to salvage. She has betrayed you repeatedly and will do so again. She is a serial cheater. I own thoroughbreds so I will use the analogy of a racing form....past performance is indicative of future results. 

At this stage of the game she is not likely to change. She is in the land of unicorns and rainbows for the moment. Sooner or later reality will hit her and hit her hard. I had my wife step out on our marriage after 29 years, however, she was remorseful and we reconciled successfully. From your posts, yours is nowhere near remorseful, and is unlikely to ever be so.

Your counselor sounds like a dud, also. I would encourage you to find yourself a reputable counselor for IC to get through this ****storm. Your best revenge is showing her you do not need her, can live without her, and live well from hear on out.

Now as for a fair settlement. **** that! You are the one who has been wronged. Be strong and go scorched earth on her. Make her as miserable as possible. She is the enemy now, not your friend by any means.


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## Tilted 1

red oak said:


> $2500 a month for school?
> 
> Did all that go for school, or was baby boy finding a sugar momma?
> 
> ETA: Do you have and accounting for those expenses?
> If she was spending on the boy might could help regarding divorce proceedings and the amount she could get.
> 
> Does she really want her affair to be spoken of in court for all the world to hear of her character?


Yup this will end badly for her once the $$$ is gone. The reality from the kid will be why do l want this old hag. She has nothing more to offer me.


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## red oak

Arkansas said:


> legally yeah, after a long battle she'd probably get 50% minus all the costs of her lawyer etc
> 
> there is another cost ... the damage a long battle would do to our kids, to our families, everyone would know just the depths of what she did .......... I thought that would have value
> 
> I guess I thought after 24 years, after all she's done to me .... maybe she's have a soft place left to give me something


Kids should be Able to handle it. 
Don’t cut yourself short in an effort to spare them knowledge of what their mother, daughter, aunt has done.


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## BluesPower

Arkansas said:


> Hopeful Cynic
> 
> That's very much how it goes.
> 
> I offered a separation/divorce and she said it wasn't enough. She wants 1/2 of everything which seems incredibly unfair. I WANT to end this nice, but .... I lost my wife, I'm losing her family which I've been close to, I'm 51, I'll be alone, ... I wanted something I could say hey, I got a little win of some kind out of this.
> 
> So she doesn't like my offer, I don't want to give half. I moved into a spare bedroom, minimal contact, I took control of all our finances and in the coming days I am going to get off any/all credit cards that has her name. My lawyer said make it uncomfortable, don't be a butthead too much .... its so against my nature to that. For 24 years I've done everything for her with her and ..... its hard.
> 
> I was cold last night in bed. I had no one to snuggle to. Its crushing
> 
> I want her to settle with me, give me something, and go. I want to rebuild my life somehow. truth is .... I wanted her to fight for me, to rediscover her love for me ..... its not going to happen, so here we are


Listen brother, this stuff right here is you feeling sorry for yourself. Stop it, OK. 

Stop and think for a second, DO YOU HONESTLY think that you are the only Man to be screwed over by a woman? Do you think you are special? 

You are not, and same thing happens to women as well. 

I know that this sucks, but your thinking about all of this is off base. 

1) She will get half of the marital assets, if you are in the USA unless you are in a state that allows infidelity as a reason for divorce, otherwise, it is the way it is. 

2) If you are fat, out of shape, or goofy, then get to the gym, get in shape and stop being a goober...

3) What you don't understand is the following... While you did not want this, you will be in demand with women out there. There a TONS of women looking for a good guy to be with. 

So stop all this negative thinking, move on with life like a man, and don't be stupid with women after you get divorced.


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## Marc878

Arkansas said:


> I married at 25 years old an 18 year old, wonderful person in 1995. Home schooled, as a young girl sexually abused. We had a daughter in 1999, lost a child in 2000 and had a son in 2001. She and I never did fight, and we also never really communicated well. I've always known that. No warning signs of an issue, she never told me her feelings much. Fast forward to 2013 and in that spring her Dad was diagnosed with kidney cancer. He came to live with us, and died on Christmas day of that year. Tough 5 months. She spiraled into a massive depression that nobody could help with. She grew distant, would not seek counseling. In 2015 she wanted to start college. In 2017, she wanted this group of friends, all guys, to study with and I agreed. She had become a runner, had male friends, it was an easy ok. I trusted her 100%.
> 
> One on one with the opposite sex. Jeeze you have zero boundaries. Common sense.
> 
> Spring 2018 she graduated community college, moving on to a 4 year degree. This one kid from that group hung around. We'd helped several women by bringing them into our home who had marital issues etc, and she said this kid was like our own. In fact, she had at the time, my 19 year old daughter dating this 21 year old. As 2018 progressed, I noticed only like twice a linger in a hug of a touch, she easily lied those away. I never looked for things, didn't really suspect. Just didn't like the kid hanging around 3 nights a week.
> 
> It’s your marriage too. Zero boundaries
> 
> Spring 2019, she went for a traditional yearly camping trip with all women friends/family. The day before she went to prep at a farm they camp on, at a bluff her and I spent many a magical night on. She slipped that evening and said "we" when talking about the day .. and it was the Kid with her. I was not happy. When the weekend ended I said enough, no more him around, he's hurting our marriage and wants to get in your pants. Deny, lies, ya'll know that.
> 
> The one thing all cheaters have in common. They lie a lot
> 
> So starts my real story. We started counseling, and I had planned a weekend getaway to reconnect. On that getaway she reached out to him. Later I'd find out every day she did. I found out she was meeting him in the mornings, recording things on a zip drive, letters and notes. The audio files I found through bugging her vehicle were terrible to hear. A man shouldn't hear his wife speaking to someone else that way.
> 
> Marriage counciling was a mistake. You at best have a 50/50 chance of getting a good one. The marriage wasn’t broken she was.
> 
> I'd asked her what could I do and she said help her through summer school. I had asked her to not see him or communicate ever again and she broke that promise the next day I later found but me? I worked hard, from 5:30 to 9:00 pm at night with cooking breakfast, driving her to classes, working out with her. She had an internship and because of a GPS tracking device I'd attached to her truck, I found out she was still meeting him. The truck I bought her then because our car was something they'd done things in and I couldn't stand it. I bought her a $1000 iphone on my July birthday. Counseling was hard, because I was told things I'd been doing wrong all the years. I am a person of action, my acts define my love. She never wanted that, I never knew that my caring and loving wasn't ever enough.
> 
> This was never your fault. She made a conscious willing decision to cheat. You were doing the infamous “pick me dance” which just defined you as weak and lowered your status even more. Cheaters always rewrite the marital history to justify their cheating. Nothing but lies.
> 
> In Sept after summer school finished, we went to FL for a 5 day trip and it was fantastic. When we got back, I had a means to view her texting and found an email she'd sent a friend. Devastating, the most amazing words to describe this 21 year old and their magical, once in a lifetime love. It crushed me hard
> 
> Bud, they never stopped. You’re trying to nice her back just made you a chump. Stop it. That always works against you. Never feed a cake eater. they just want more cake.
> 
> But I didn't leave. I stayed, I tried. Credit to her, she did wane from seeing/talking to him as far as I know, and things got better.
> 
> Nov 1st I sat her down and though she'd once asked me to forgive her (not serious because she went back to him the next day) I forgave her for it all. I needed it. I'd dropped to 145 pounds, I was unhealthy as a person and my soul was. That night I offered her a chance to come clean on anything, and she said when I was out of town with my son, she'd have him over spending the night at my house. So ... for 7 months she held that huge lie, lying about it constantly. I forgive her.
> 
> No consequences so why would she stop????
> 
> I went on a trip and came back Nov 10 and told her and the counselor I was done with weekly counseling for 2 reasons. #1, I was told every week I needed to change, we never talked about her. #2, I didn't want a life where I could talk to my wife 1 day a week between 2 and 3 pm. I drew a heart and said this is mine, and you want it 100% and she said yes. I drew a box in it and said this is your heart and that's the adultery in the middle and she said yes. I said I cannot live with that.
> 
> Your idiot marriage counciling just created more damage and made this worse
> 
> We spoke of it again twice in Dec, both time her saying she couldn't give me 100% of her heart. During this time, she entered 1 on 1 abuse counseling and I encouraged it.
> 
> 3 weeks ago, I saw text messaging from the kid, and she said she has no idea how his phone was unlocked. I found out she was "following" him on a social media page and he her, and they could see each others pics. She said she has no idea how that happened.
> 
> Just more lies because she knows you’ll accept anything
> 
> The final nail, as she told me she didn't if she wanted to stay married. I had legal documents written up that would have given her about 15% of our worth (which isn't much, but she's had $2500 a month to finish school)
> 
> She was mad about it, said she felt like she was worthless, cheap and not valued. She came back and said she wanted 50% of everything and I said no way. We talked about where she was, where I am, and she says she doesn't want a divorce, can't take my offer, I can't take hers .... today I moved into a spare bedroom. There is silence here.
> 
> Of course she doesn’t want a divorce. She’s got the best of both worlds. It works well for her.
> 
> Our counselor said, in 18 years, she'd never seen a man as heartbroken as I was. I know who I was as a husband, and she and I both contributed to a marriage that while good, wasn't great, but her choice to affair was all hers and that destroyed our marriage.
> 
> Your MC is a total moron. Why continue ?????
> 
> I see no resolution. She has no fight for me at all. While accepting her choices are wrong, she'd say but she wants to hold it in her heart as beautiful and wonderful. I cannot live with that.
> 
> She’s still in the wayward mindset. You don’t matter much except for your checkbook
> 
> What I am asking ... has anyone had a marriage end like that? Where 24 years, the woman just goes crazy, has an affair with a 21 year old kid, blames everyone, rewrites our marriage past almost to justify her actions, has a husband who tries for 8 hard months everything he can to stay ............ I fought SO hard. I have forgiven her. She is at a place and will not change, and I can't live with how she has become as much as I still love her.
> 
> Your wife is a very typical cheater. This happens all the time. Nothing special about her at all.
> 
> Why did she do it all? I'll never know, she sure didn't have enough love for me not to, no consideration, no respect. More baffling, she had me fighting hard for her for the most part, when it should have been her fighting for me.
> 
> 
> I'll say this - 100% trust and faith is supposed to be given but when its violated? wow ... there is nothing like it, because it shatters the soul. She was a very religious young woman, always the highest morals and ethics. Kind, generous, someone everyone admired. After her Dad died she changed, her sister and brother both used the same words - broken. I admit I was unable to reach her and I stopped trying. My faults were never knowing how to comfort her, and her not telling me I wasn't, I just thought I was doing enough.
> 
> You should take her off the pedestal you have her on. That’s clearly not who she is.
> 
> I have grown as a person in these 8 months, I am capable of massive changes for her. But its over now, and I'm still crushed


Your problem is she cheated and you did all the work while she did nothing. You need to fully wake up.

Full exposure to all friends and family unless you just want to divorce. Helping hide their affair always enables it further.

Read up it’s short and free. You need it badly 
https://archive.org/details/RobertGloverNoMoreMrNiceGuy/mode/2up


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## Marc878

From your very long post the one thing that sticks out is you took no action. Talks get you nothing in these situations except more of what you’ve gotten.

Actions are the only thing that counts. Look up the 180 no contact and apply it fully.

Refuse to live in infidelity.

The only one that can make you a chump is yourself.


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## Marc878

Arkansas said:


> Hopeful Cynic
> 
> That's very much how it goes.
> 
> I offered a separation/divorce and she said it wasn't enough. She wants 1/2 of everything which seems incredibly unfair. I WANT to end this nice, but .... I lost my wife, I'm losing her family which I've been close to, I'm 51, I'll be alone, ... I wanted something I could say hey, I got a little win of some kind out of this.
> 
> So she doesn't like my offer, I don't want to give half. I moved into a spare bedroom, minimal contact, I took control of all our finances and in the coming days I am going to get off any/all credit cards that has her name. My lawyer said make it uncomfortable, don't be a butthead too much .... its so against my nature to that. *For 24 years I've done everything for her with her and ..... its hard. *
> 
> I was cold last night in bed. I had no one to snuggle to. Its crushing
> 
> I want her to settle with me, give me something, and go. I want to rebuild my life somehow. truth is .... I wanted her to fight for me, to rediscover her love for me ..... its not going to happen, so here we are


How hard is living with a lying cheater?


----------



## Arkansas

I meant my separation offer was paying her $2500 a month for the next 18 months so she can finish college. I want her to get her degree.

I thought with the offer she'd think she could have her freedom, her boyfriend, independence. Instead, she said she felt cheapened by the offer, insulted. wow ... ok, that's how I've felt right?

She says she there isn't a future with that 21 year old. 

I think she wants to stay married for the next year and half, her doing whatever she wants, me paying for it all. She knows without me ... financially she'll hurt. 

I question if she's cheating right now ... I don't think she is. She has said her heart will probably never be mine. She isn't sure she wants to stay married. She won't leave, she doesn't want a divorce for less than half




this is hard


----------



## BluesPower

Arkansas said:


> I meant my separation offer was paying her $2500 a month for the next 18 months so she can finish college. I want her to get her degree.
> 
> I thought with the offer she'd think she could have her freedom, her boyfriend, independence. Instead, she said she felt cheapened by the offer, insulted. wow ... ok, that's how I've felt right?
> 
> She says she there isn't a future with that 21 year old.
> 
> I think she wants to stay married for the next year and half, her doing whatever she wants, me paying for it all. She knows without me ... financially she'll hurt.
> 
> I question if she's cheating right now ... I don't think she is. She has said her heart will probably never be mine. She isn't sure she wants to stay married. She won't leave, she doesn't want a divorce for less than half
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is hard


You have got to be kidding. You need to go to the ER for "terminal Nice Guy Syndrome". 

Did you read what you wrote? OF COURSE she is cheating now. You think she is going to give up a young stud for YOU???? 

Are you serious? 

SHE DOES NOT LOVE YOU... From what you have written, I don't think she EVER LOVED YOU. 

HOW CAN YOU BELIEVE A WORD of what you have written. 

Dude, wake up, get a divorce and move on for Goodness sake...


----------



## Arkansas

"From your very long post the one thing that sticks out is you took no action."

um .... actions like asking her to leave or divorce papers earlier than now or ?

I took a lot of actions ..... trying with counseling etc. She says the way I interact with her now is so much better, why didn't I do it all those other years? Thing is ... I did for the most part, she just never noticed.

Oh, I admit my things. Sometimes I didn't listen well. I never gushed on her in part because she said it was cheesy. Never abuse of any kind and in fact, we never had fights which I know now is a sign of marital breakdowns. We agree on all that and we also agree the choices in cheating was hers.

I have said all along had she told me all these things years ago I'd have addressed them. I'd have had a choice. She removed that choice from me.


Today, I have removed my name from all 3 credit cards we have. They are all in her name only now.


----------



## Arkansas

BluesPower

thank you

I do what I do, how I do for me ... I wanted to try as hard as I could. I have. I just want it to end nice now and it doesn't look that way


----------



## Tilted 1

Arkansas said:


> I meant my separation offer was paying her $2500 a month for the next 18 months so she can finish college. I want her to get her degree.
> 
> I thought with the offer she'd think she could have her freedom, her boyfriend, independence. Instead, she said she felt cheapened by the offer, insulted. wow ... ok, that's how I've felt right?
> 
> She says she there isn't a future with that 21 year old.
> 
> I think she wants to stay married for the next year and half, her doing whatever she wants, me paying for it all. She knows without me ... financially she'll hurt.
> 
> I question if she's cheating right now ... I don't think she is. She has said her heart will probably never be mine. She isn't sure she wants to stay married. She won't leave, she doesn't want a divorce for less than half
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is hard


BS, you acting like a chump, and she's throwing right back in your face. So you don't think she's humping toddler boy, think again and as her future with baby boy means she's just in to getting banged by anyone else. Quit being the victim here Arkansas, quit being that nice guy is so pathetic.


----------



## red oak

Arkansas said:


> I meant my separation offer was paying her $2500 a month for the next 18 months so she can finish college. I want her to get her degree.
> 
> I thought with the offer she'd think she could have her freedom, her boyfriend, independence. Instead, she said she felt cheapened by the offer, insulted. wow ... ok, that's how I've felt right?
> 
> She says she there isn't a future with that 21 year old.
> 
> I think she wants to stay married for the next year and half, her doing whatever she wants, me paying for it all. She knows without me ... financially she'll hurt.
> 
> I question if she's cheating right now ... I don't think she is. She has said her heart will probably never be mine. She isn't sure she wants to stay married. She won't leave, she doesn't want a divorce for less than half
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is hard


I wasn’t clear on the 2500. I misunderstood. 

In other words she wants her cake, you to frost, serve it to her and bow down before her to feed it to her as well. 

Unless she showed true remorse I wouldn’t want her there. 

Tangled web of politically correct world. 

ETA: you are a slave neo.


----------



## Tilted 1

Arkansas said:


> "From your very long post the one thing that sticks out is you took no action."
> 
> um .... actions like asking her to leave or divorce papers earlier than now or ?
> 
> I took a lot of actions ..... trying with counseling etc. She says the way I interact with her now is so much better, why didn't I do it all those other years? Thing is ... I did for the most part, she just never noticed.
> 
> Oh, I admit my things. Sometimes I didn't listen well. I never gushed on her in part because she said it was cheesy. Never abuse of any kind and in fact, we never had fights which I know now is a sign of marital breakdowns. We agree on all that and we also agree the choices in cheating was hers.
> 
> I have said all along had she told me all these things years ago I'd have addressed them. I'd have had a choice. She removed that choice from me.
> 
> 
> Today, I have removed my name from all 3 credit cards we have. They are all in her name only now.


Yuk!! Nice guy syndrome, nice guy syndrome, nice guy syndrome.


----------



## wilson

duplicate


----------



## Arkansas

"In other words she wants her cake, you to frost, serve it to her and bow down before her to feed it to her as well.

Unless she showed true remorse I wouldn’t want her there."

this is true



I know where I am right now. I am losing the love of my life, faced with possibly losing 1/2 of what I have earned (I earned, she never worked really) being alone at 51 years old and I hate it. 

I started this thread for "talkaboutmarriage" ........... thank ya'll for talking.


----------



## wilson

Arkansas said:


> Today, I have removed my name from all 3 credit cards we have. They are all in her name only now.


From an marital asset standpoint, I'm not sure that matters. Typically the debt is shared regardless of whether your name is on it or not. One way to ensure the debt is not yours is to create a legal separation agreement. That can set a point at which the state of the shared assets and debt are known and anything in the future would be separated. But without something like that, it doesn't matter. She could go out today and charge $10k on the CC in her name and you'd be responsible for half of it.

You've definitely gotten some harsh advice here, but it's because we all want the best for you. You can't be super nice throughout this. You'll get destroyed by her and end up with nothing. Also, you need to be tough for the sake of all guys out there. If you're easy on her, that's the takeaway she'll learn from all of this and she'll tell her friends how easy it all is. She'll learn that it's okay to hookup with other people and it's still easy to get divorced. Her friends will learn that lesson and do the same to their husbands. So for the sake of all men, you need to teach her the lesson that when she f's up like this, her life gets f'ed up.


----------



## Marc878

Everyone is blindsided and in shock for the most part upfront.

You’ve come to the right place for info. Take what you need and leave the rest.

The worst thing you can doin these situations is nothing.

Get strong and stay there. You’ll come out better that way.

Keep posting


----------



## Marc878

Get a separation notice in place immediately to protect yourself financially.

Any debt will be split no matter what.


----------



## Marc878

wilson said:


> From an marital asset standpoint, I'm not sure that matters. Typically the debt is shared regardless of whether your name is on it or not. One way to ensure the debt is not yours is to create a legal separation agreement. That can set a point at which the state of the shared assets and debt are known and anything in the future would be separated. But without something like that, it doesn't matter. She could go out today and charge $10k on the CC in her name and you'd be responsible for half of it.
> 
> You've definitely gotten some harsh advice here, but it's because we all want the best for you. You can't be super nice throughout this. You'll get destroyed by her and end up with nothing. Also, you need to be tough for the sake of all guys out there. If you're easy on her, that's the takeaway she'll learn from all of this and she'll tell her friends how easy it all is. She'll learn that it's okay to hookup with other people and it's still easy to get divorced. Her friends will learn that lesson and do the same to their husbands. So for the sake of all men, you need to teach her the lesson that when she f's up like this, her life gets f'ed up.


This is correct. Better get moving


----------



## Marc878

Arkansas said:


> I question if she's cheating right now ... I don't think she is. She has said her heart will probably never be mine. She isn't sure she wants to stay married. She won't leave, she doesn't want a divorce for less than half
> 
> this is hard


Typically the betrayed spouse want to believe the lies so they can put off making a decision.

They normally don’t stop cheating they just cover it better.

You aren’t fully awakened to reality yet.

She’s telling and showing you what you need to know. You’d be smart to believe her.


----------



## Tilted 1

Yes, this is talk about marriage, Arkansas but you don't have a marriage and that came straight from the horses mouth. 

But we are telling you to protect your self and the kids, which I'm sure will want to stay with you. Quit loving her away, she's told it plain and simple you or your children are not what she wants she wants that special feeling you can't give her. Get to the lawyer today and file as it was told so you don't lose any more.


----------



## Marc878

You seem to be dragging your feet hoping it’ll all just go away. I suspect this’ll end up putting you in a worse financial position.

You can always slow or stop a D but if she goes on a spending spree without paperwork in place you’ll be on the hook for half of it.

Most will say “she wouldn’t do that to me”. You never though she’d cheat either did you?


----------



## Marc878

One other thing. Never leave your home without any paperwork in place.

She cheats so you move out of the marital bedroom? typical Mr Nice Guy syndrome.

You should have moved her out.


----------



## BluesPower

Like I said... 

You need to stop the negative self talk. 

YOU will not be alone unless you want to be. 

And hey, you may think she is the "love of your life", but she does not and never has felt that way. 

I know that this is hard, but you really need to wake up to reality...


----------



## Arkansas

I'm listening to ya'll - a legal separation she's going to want $$$$ for the next 18 months, I'd have to also pay insurance etc.

As it stand, unless she lies greatly, she has no grounds for trying to file for divorce. We are an at fault state, I've never done anything to warrant a divorce.

So, my lawyer said don't be nice, start unbinding, don't sleep with her, don't talk with her much other than necessary. Provide but not above and beyond. Make her WANT to come to a resolution

That's where I am right now. Its very difficult for me to STOP being "mr nice guy" .... 24 years its my core, who I am you know? 

I am trying


----------



## Tilted 1

That great news on the fault state, get you info and VAR record every interaction with her keep what's yours and today start your new way of life by not being that nice guy.


----------



## Tilted 1

Let it be her that hangs herself. Just record every thing. You'll come out better than her and if the kids stay with you l smell rose's.


----------



## Prodigal

Arkansas said:


> I'm listening to ya'll - a legal separation she's going to want $$$$ for the next 18 months, I'd have to also pay insurance etc.
> 
> As it stand, unless she lies greatly, she has no grounds for trying to file for divorce. We are an at fault state, I've never done anything to warrant a divorce.


As far as I know, New York is the only state that is at fault. States are generally no fault, because courts are already burdened with a full calendar. If you can claim grounds, do so on adultery and alienation of affection. It should fly, since she's admitted to having an affair. Caveat: this is just MY opinion. See if it flies with your lawyer.



Arkansas said:


> So, my lawyer said don't be nice, start unbinding, don't sleep with her, don't talk with her much other than necessary.


Please listen to your lawyer. And this isn't going to be an amicable divorce based on what your wife is already telling you. Frankly, as a woman myself, I find her reactions/behavior disgusting. Sounds like she wants nothing more than to squeeze you for every dime she can get. Don't communicate with her unless it's about the kids. Let your lawyer discuss negotiations with her lawyer.



Arkansas said:


> That's where I am right now. Its very difficult for me to STOP being "mr nice guy" .... 24 years its my core, who I am you know?
> 
> I am trying


Do you hit the gym regularly? If not, start NOW. Hard workouts really work to alleviate stress and anger. You also get the added benefit of getting in shape. Yes, it is hard to stop being a nice guy, but you can see what it got you. Don't try, just DO. Believe me, if you are a decent looking, well groomed man with self-confidence, you won't be alone. Seriously.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Arkansas said:


> I'm listening to ya'll - a legal separation she's going to want $$$$ for the next 18 months, I'd have to also pay insurance etc.
> 
> As it stand, unless she lies greatly, she has no grounds for trying to file for divorce. We are an at fault state, I've never done anything to warrant a divorce.
> 
> So, my lawyer said don't be nice, start unbinding, don't sleep with her, don't talk with her much other than necessary. Provide but not above and beyond. Make her WANT to come to a resolution
> 
> That's where I am right now. Its very difficult for me to STOP being "mr nice guy" .... 24 years its my core, who I am you know?
> 
> I am trying


If you are still living with her tell her she needs to leave the house as she has left the marriage. You will never be able to think clearly and rationally with her continually in your presence. Get her gone! Tell her to go live with “ Prince Charming” and chase her rainbows. Man up! That is an order. Do not mouse out on her. If you are in an at fault state, works more in your favor. Minimize and financial impact on you by using this to your advantage.

As this old jarhead has told several others on here, consider reading Larry Winget’s “Grow A Pair” and “No More Mr. Nice Guy”.
Passivity will get you nowhere. Want to freak her out totally? Radio silence. Do not engage, do not speak unless it is about your kids and if they are adults, **** her. Just do not speak to her at all. Indifference my good man. 

I hope you have taken your ring off and if not take it off hand it to her and tell her she can stick it up her skanky ass. As for you tell her to take her rings off if she has not. Make reality for her a *****.>


----------



## Marc878

Arkansas said:


> I'm listening to ya'll - a legal separation she's going to want $$$$ for the next 18 months, I'd have to also pay insurance etc.
> 
> As it stand, unless she lies greatly, she has no grounds for trying to file for divorce. We are an at fault state, I've never done anything to warrant a divorce.
> 
> So, my lawyer said don't be nice, start unbinding, don't sleep with her, don't talk with her much other than necessary. Provide but not above and beyond. Make her WANT to come to a resolution
> 
> That's where I am right now. *Its very difficult for me to STOP being "mr nice guy"* .... 24 years its my core, who I am you know?
> 
> I am trying


Read up it’s short and free

https://archive.org/details/RobertGloverNoMoreMrNiceGuy/mode/2up

If you don’t implement you’re only hurting yourself more.


----------



## Arkansas

"Get her gone! Tell her to go live with “ Prince Charming” and chase her rainbows. Man up! "

She told me she's not going to leave because the court will see it as abandonment (yes, a twice divorced friend has coached her)

My lawyer said don't demand her leave. Make her uncomfortable enough she'll want to


----------



## Tilted 1

Arkansas said:


> "Get her gone! Tell her to go live with “ Prince Charming” and chase her rainbows. Man up! "
> 
> She told me she's not going to leave because the court will see it as abandonment (yes, a twice divorced friend has coached her)
> 
> My lawyer said don't demand her leave. Make her uncomfortable enough she'll want to


She pretty determined to make it rough on you and when she brings her boyfriend over for the night then what?


----------



## wilson

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned, but carry a Voice-Activated-Recorder on you when you're with her. You never know what she'll claim you said or did to her during this time. Check if your state is a one-party or two-party recording state. If it's one-party, you can secretly record without her knowing. If it's two-party, then you have to tell her you're recording. But that can be something like one time holding up the recorder and saying "I'm going to have this VAR on me to avoid any misunderstandings" (and make sure it's recording when you say that).


----------



## aquarius1

You need to get this ball rolling. She's going to ride you like a blind pony for 18 months until you pay for her degree and then she's going to take you for 50% of what's left.
The sooner you rip off this bandaid, the less in debt you will be.
She doesn't love you. At least not anymore, if she ever did.
Sorry.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Arkansas said:


> I'm listening to ya'll - a legal separation she's going to want $$$$ for the next 18 months, I'd have to also pay insurance etc.
> 
> As it stand, unless she lies greatly, she has no grounds for trying to file for divorce. We are an at fault state, I've never done anything to warrant a divorce.
> 
> So, my lawyer said don't be nice, start unbinding, don't sleep with her, don't talk with her much other than necessary. Provide but not above and beyond. Make her WANT to come to a resolution
> 
> That's where I am right now. Its very difficult for me to STOP being "mr nice guy" .... 24 years its my core, who I am you know?
> 
> I am trying


Time to get pissed off, dude.. get the hell off the pity pot, dump the Mr Nice Guy, and find your anger! She will get what the state says she is legally entitled to, as will you. DO NOT make any more offers, DO NOT give her a damn thing that isnt ordered legally. Stop trying to negotiate, stop talking to her, stop doing for her. She FIRED YOU as her husband, so she is no longer your responsibility.


----------



## Girl_power

Arkansas said:


> "Get her gone! Tell her to go live with “ Prince Charming” and chase her rainbows. Man up! "
> 
> 
> 
> She told me she's not going to leave because the court will see it as abandonment (yes, a twice divorced friend has coached her)
> 
> 
> 
> My lawyer said don't demand her leave. Make her uncomfortable enough she'll want to




She’s never going to leave. She is going to keep using you. This isn’t killing her like it’s killing you.


----------



## Arkansas

on that article yes I am some of those things, some I am not


she's mad right now, telling me I was unethical to remove her from my banking where my SS# is primary. I told her to open her own and she said she doesn't have anything to put in it. well yeah ... she knew that before the affair and chose anyway

our cell phones are all in my name only, I changed that password too

I'm only doing things that are in my name only - anything joint I'm not touching

I told her this is tough, separating mine and hers, doing the best i can. I left it at that.




I'm listening to ya'll - its what I've been told for a while now. I just wanted to try really hard, I did. Now, I need her to find a way to settle with me and leave. I can think of no series of events/actions she could do that would undo this


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Arkansas said:


> on that article yes I am some of those things, some I am not
> 
> 
> she's mad right now, telling me I was unethical to remove her from my banking where my SS# is primary. I told her to open her own and she said she doesn't have anything to put in it. well yeah ... she knew that before the affair and chose anyway
> 
> our cell phones are all in my name only, I changed that password too
> 
> I'm only doing things that are in my name only - anything joint I'm not touching
> 
> I told her this is tough, separating mine and hers, doing the best i can. I left it at that.
> 
> Now that is how you deal with a wayward. I think you are getting it.....albeit slowly.
> 
> As for her lack of money tough ****.>
> 
> 
> 
> I'm listening to ya'll - its what I've been told for a while now. I just wanted to try really hard, I did. Now, I need her to find a way to settle with me and leave. I can think of no series of events/actions she could do that would undo this


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

Arkansas said:


> legally yeah, after a long battle she'd probably get 50% minus all the costs of her lawyer etc
> 
> there is another cost ... the damage a long battle would do to our kids, to our families, everyone would know just the depths of what she did .......... I thought that would have value
> 
> I guess I thought after 24 years, after all she's done to me .... maybe she's have a soft place left to give me something


She's selfish enough to cheat on you and destroy the marriage. Don't expect generosity or kindness from her in the settlement.

Split things evenly and walk away, or be prepared for a fight. Talk to all the best lawyers, find one who's a good fit for you (and prevent her from using the others!) and find out how family law looks in your jurisdiction.


----------



## jlg07

Arkansas said:


> "From your very long post the one thing that sticks out is you took no action."
> 
> um .... actions like asking her to leave or divorce papers earlier than now or ?
> 
> I took a lot of actions ..... trying with counseling etc. She says the way I interact with her now is so much better, why didn't I do it all those other years? Thing is ... I did for the most part, she just never noticed.
> 
> Oh, I admit my things. Sometimes I didn't listen well. I never gushed on her in part because she said it was cheesy. Never abuse of any kind and in fact, we never had fights which I know now is a sign of marital breakdowns. We agree on all that and we also agree the choices in cheating was hers.
> 
> I have said all along had she told me all these things years ago I'd have addressed them. I'd have had a choice. She removed that choice from me.
> 
> 
> Today, I have removed my name from all 3 credit cards we have. They are all in her name only now.


Good that you took the financial actions, BUT -- her blaming you and your actions for her cheating all this time is PURE BS. YOU did not cause her to cheat -- SHE DID. It was HER choice. She is re-writing your marital history to make herself feel better. Get yourself a shark lawyer, stop talking with her (look up the 180), and file. Get YOUR plans together. Expose her for the cheater she is to your/her family and especially your kids.

EDT: just caught up -- glad to see you've met with a lawyer, now EXECUTE your plan. Make sure you expose her to all.


----------



## Arkansas

I'm curious how ya'll are reading this and the snowball that it is 

Tonight, we talked. Wow. First thing, I clarified there is no way to salvage this marriage and she said no. Ok, honest. Hurtful still but honest.

We then talked about how to end nicely and both agreed that our kids, relatives, everyone involved .... it doesn't have to end bad. I said ok, what do you want. She said 50%. I said I won't give that. She said less devalues her. I said 50% tells me all the hard work I've done all these years and putting you through 4 years of college AND all the house things I've done ..... they're not calculated either and to be honest, you destroyed the marriage and yes, I think there is an emotional value. 

Not only that, I told her that her freedom, her independence, her being NOT married to me? that has value too. I closed by saying if I take this to the courts, drag it out, get so many people hurt, the lawyers will get their cut and in the end I'll be give you MAYBE 50% .... why would I give 50% to you now? make you suffer through it

and I hated saying those things, I truly did

she got mad, started saying hurtful things .... and for once, I didn't care. It wasn't screaming cursing but her warped reality showed clear and I finally said ok, I'm going to double my original cash offer and tomorrow have it set up and I want you to sign and and lets get this done now. She said she'd think about it

I think she'll sign it to get this done. I hope so.

After tonight .... I doubt I ever shed a tear for her again. How amazing fast things change. I'll always love her deeply. I have no idea who she is now.


----------



## Marc878

Love is blinding. It’s shocking when the blinders come off and you see them for who they really are.

This is who she is, was and will always be. 

I’d tell her full exposure on everything. We may as well let everyone know what’s going on. I bet she’ll sign.

Get the paperwork ready. Stay strong and you’ll get through this.

As you’ve witnessed you aren’t losing much of a wife.


----------



## Arkansas

I have seen her grow from a woman who never lied, was always honest, truthful, admired by everyone for it ... into that which she herself hates most.

I wish her the best, will always love her, give me what I'm asking and go peacefully


----------



## cp3o

Arkansas said:


> I have seen her grow from a woman who never lied, was always honest, truthful, admired by everyone for it ... into that which she herself hates most.
> 
> I wish her the best, will always love her, give me what I'm asking and go peacefully


You may be right about her changing - it happens.

It is also possible that STBXW was always deceitful* etc.. - but that, like many of us, you were shown an untrue image. Some people are naturally good at recognising what we want to see and supplying that which encourages us to see what we long for. Once they achieve their object they tend to rely on our commitment to sustain our mistaken view of them - and they get lazy about maintaining the image. 

It often requires a huge blow to dislodge the comfortable and comforting novel that we have immersed ourselves in and which enables us to concentrate on the rest of our life "knowing" that our relationship is beyond question. 

As to always loving her - I hope not. The image you love is not real - not now (if ever it was). Retain happy memories but, should you find that the love you had wanes, don't mourn it - it is a natural way of preparing oneself for a fuller and more rewarding future.


*my fingers sometimes think they know better than me - on reading what I'd typed I saw that the final letter of "deceitful" was wrong - not greatly - just one key to the left of "L"!


----------



## Arkansas

she counter offered this morning - she gets 1/3 and I get 2/3 give or take

I told her yes, lets do this ... I get a bit of a win, she's still sitting well, nobody has to be hurt anymore and ugly court battle doesn't happen.

I hope she keeps her word. I'll have the papers to her by 11:30 am - noon and hopefully she has them signed in the afternoon. She has a free condo to stay at, I hope she moves there this weekend


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Get the paperwork now. The quicker your get her gone, the quicker you will heal. Kick her ass out and offer to move her into to her free condo.


----------



## BluesPower

Arkansas said:


> After tonight .... I doubt I ever shed a tear for her again. How amazing fast things change. I'll always love her deeply. I have no idea who she is now.


This is what I was talking about when I said learn from this. 

Dude, you never new who she was in the first place, from the day that you met her, she was looking for a mule to ride until she did not need you any more. 

I understand that it is hard to accept this but this is the truth. 

You need to learn about relationships and woman, and DO NOT PICK THIS TYPE OF WOMAN AGAIN...


----------



## Arkansas

well, I did what she wanted, the amount she asked ... then she tried to get me to add more, then when reading the paperwork she accused me of putting her under durress to sign when I specifically did not .... then she cried/sobbed and I left for a while, came back .... she said she'd pray on it

maybe she'll get it signed soon, can't pressure her directly

this is going to happen on the offer she proposed - end of story in my book


----------



## BluesPower

Arkansas said:


> well, I did what she wanted, the amount she asked ... then she tried to get me to add more, then when reading the paperwork she accused me of putting her under durress to sign when I specifically did not .... then she cried/sobbed and I left for a while, came back ....* she said she'd pray on it*


Does anyone else see the irony of a woman breaking up her marriage and home by cheating telling someone that they will prey on it? 

I mean, @Arkansas, can you start to see that she is off, out to lunch, delusional??? 

I really hope that you start to see that, and as much as all of this hurts, brother, you dodged a bullet. 

You should have such a happier life when you find a woman that actually loves you and cares for you...


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Dude she is a manipulator. Did you really believe she’d settle for 2/3 to you vs 1/3?

I wish I would have caught this thread when it started. She is going to keep adding until she is closer to the 50% you don’t want. She knows you desperately want her and this over. She has nothing to lose.

Put your guard it is going to get worse. Quit discussing things with her, go through your lawyer.


----------



## Diana7

Arkansas said:


> well, I did what she wanted, the amount she asked ... then she tried to get me to add more, then when reading the paperwork she accused me of putting her under durress to sign when I specifically did not .... then she cried/sobbed and I left for a while, came back .... she said she'd pray on it
> 
> maybe she'll get it signed soon, can't pressure her directly
> 
> this is going to happen on the offer she proposed - end of story in my book


That sort of made me laugh when she said she would pray on it. Did she pray on it before she cheated? Before she broke up her family? What a hypocrite. :frown2:

It was very interesting when my husband's ex did this. God always seemed to agree with what she wanted, funny that.:wink2: 
I do hate it when people will even use God to get their own way and manipulate others.

Don't be at all surprised if she comes back and says that God wants her to have more.:surprise:


----------



## Arkansas

I was thinking how would the prayer go ?

Lord, help me. I cheated and lied for 9 months, then was found out, cheated and lied the next 6 months and now my husband is offering me a really nice cash settlement and I need to know if I should take it or if I should really try to screw him over again ? amen

I mean really - in the last 24, she's called me a liar, dishonest, untrustworthy and that she feels like she has no value .... hmmmmm. That's how I've felt FOR 9 DAMN MONTHS

I think she'll sign this. I will not give more. Period. 

I spent the last couple of hours bringing down from the attic her stuff, family things etc. I do think her mental state is in question, this stuff aint normal.


----------



## Lila

Arkansas said:


> I was thinking how would the prayer go ?
> 
> Lord, help me. I cheated and lied for 9 months, then was found out, cheated and lied the next 6 months and now my husband is offering me a really nice cash settlement and I need to know if I should take it or if I should really try to screw him over again ? amen
> 
> I mean really - in the last 24, she's called me a liar, dishonest, untrustworthy and that she feels like she has no value .... hmmmmm. That's how I've felt FOR 9 DAMN MONTHS
> 
> I think she'll sign this. I will not give more. Period.
> 
> I spent the last couple of hours bringing down from the attic her stuff, family things etc. I do think her mental state is in question, this stuff aint normal.


I have been keeping up with your thread but haven't commented because it seemed like you were undecided whether to divorce or reconcile. You can use any evidence of her affair to either try to reconcile or divorce with the best settlement possible but you can't use it for both. So decide.

I'll leave it to others here to describe the steps to using pinpoint exposure to help in reconciliation.

If you want to divorce, then find yourself a good lawyer. Anyone who suggests that you "make her suffer", "make it difficult", or "squeeze her till she bleeds" IS NOT a good lawyer. Those are the lawyers that want to make your divorce contentious and drag it out to squeeze every penny from YOU. A good lawyer will give you the legal facts. A good lawyer will encourage you to come to some sort of settlement before you spend thousands of dollars in litigation. 

Find yourself a good lawyer and tell them you are interested in an "uncontested" divorce (usually a couple thousand dollars). They provide you with the best legal advice but you and your STX have to haggle over the terms on your own. This is where you have to use the evidence at hand. Find out about everything you can about the boyfriend. Tell your wife that you'll keep your mouth shut to family and mutual friends about the affair, and won't disclose to his friends, family, co-workers if she agrees to your terms.... and you stick to it. This might seem like dealing with the devil but if the goal is to get out of the marriage as financially intact as possible, you're going to have to make some concessions. 

Once you have come to agreement, send the details to the lawyers ASAP and have them write up your settlement using all the proper legal terms. This is important because some judges will dismiss settlements that they feel are unfair to one party, particularly if they are "self-authored". Make sure that she has representation as well. Judges frown upon that as well.

Get that settlement signed ASAP and get on with your life.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

If she doesnt sign it, make this the last time you communicate directly, force all future communication through your attorney.


----------



## BluesPower

Arkansas said:


> I spent the last couple of hours bringing down from the attic her stuff, family things etc. I do think her mental state is in question, this stuff aint normal.


Brother, I keep telling you and you keep thinking this way. 

THIS STUFF IS NORMAL for a cheating POS like your wife. Do you really think this is the first time she has cheated. 

You caught her, she might as well let you see the real her. THIS IS THE REAL WOMAN THAT YOU MARRIED!!!!

Get it? Yeah you were stupid, yeah you should not have trusted, yeah you should have caught it sooner, blah blah blah....

You think you are the only man that had made a mistake with a woman? Really? Do you think maybe some of us are on here because maybe we were stupid at one time???

You think maybe you want to get your head straight and stop believing the stupid **** in your head about this woman????? 

THIS IS WHO SHE IS. IT SUCKS. I KNOW... believe me dude, I know....


----------



## Adelais

Arkansas said:


> I am losing the love of my life,


You aren't "losing" the love of your life. She was gone when she decided to cheat, only you didn't know it yet.

What you are having trouble with is losing the _*illusion*_ of marriage that you have had for the last years. If you can accept that she has been gone for some time, but you weren't let in on the secret, you can get on with your healing quicker.


----------



## Arkansas

Lila - all of what you said is where I am



All the questions on the past, i'll never know the answers. It'll stop bothering me eventually I think. That's ya'll for the words


----------



## Prodigal

JMO, but I sure as hell wouldn't be negotiating with this woman. Period. You can see that she's baiting you with her dramatic reaction(s). 

ATTORNEYS ARE EQUIPPED TO NEGOTIATE FOR THEIR CLIENTS. You get a good, tough attorney. Because the way it stands right now, your wife is going to play games and wear you down with her nonsense.

She may get half, she may not. The cold, hard fact is you either stay with her and keep 100% of your money (and none of your sanity), or you lawyer up and fight her with the hopes that you can keep more than half.

If I was in this situation - and I actually was, at one time - I'd cut my losses. No amount of aggravation is worth it to me. Again, JMO.


----------



## Arkansas

"- I'd cut my losses"

she's full time civil engineering college student - I've supported her for 4 years in every way as she's getting 18 months from finishing

this should all be wearing her down hard - I accepted her offer, its me getting 2/3rds .... she needs to sign and lets move on


----------



## Prodigal

Arkansas said:


> .... she needs to sign and lets move on


Which is my point. What if she starts jerking you around and doesn't sign? Looks like a possibility from where I'm sitting. But I sure hope I'm wrong, for your sake.


----------



## Buffer

Ok, not going that well, she is stalling so you give more.
Have you brought to light the A to all, her family, friends, duration (no details etc) to the children?
Have you been checked for any STDs/STIs? 
Good action on the financial front. Is any derby incurred on her credit card/education going to be married debt or her personal debt?
Time to go hard 180 now, no more Mr Nice Guy.

Buffer


----------



## Lila

Arkansas said:


> Lila - all of what you said is where I am


That's good. If she chooses not to sign the settlement, then know (and accept) that you are going to have a contested (read expensive) divorce on your hands. At that point you have no reason to not share the information on the affair. Feel free to let family, friends know the reason you're divorcing is due to her infidelity. 

As long as you can use that information to get her to sign, do not share it. The minute you share it, it loses its value. It's your ace.


----------



## Arkansas

yeah I thought that information coming out (and its very damaging to her, emails, notes, I even have audio files) would make her want to sign. as far as I know, the kid still lives at home with mommy and daddy and nobody in his Christian little world knows what kind of som***** he really is

sign this offer she made to ME and we can end this peacefully

but I can't pressure, that's duress according to the lawyer. I explained how ugly divorces go and she said I was threatening her (I wasn't) ... its just a never ending string of what I did, or how my behavior is, always blaming me. I get that now

I'm going to keep hope this ends quick, Monday I'd like her to have those papers signed


----------



## Tilted 1

Just VAR all interactions, Ark all interactions!


----------



## red oak

Tilted 1 said:


> *Just VAR all interactions, Ark all interactions!*


:iagree:


----------



## Marc878

BluesPower said:


> Brother, I keep telling you and you keep thinking this way.
> 
> THIS STUFF IS NORMAL for a cheating POS like your wife. Do you really think this is the first time she has cheated.
> 
> You caught her, she might as well let you see the real her. THIS IS THE REAL WOMAN THAT YOU MARRIED!!!!
> 
> Get it? Yeah you were stupid, yeah you should not have trusted, yeah you should have caught it sooner, blah blah blah....
> 
> You think you are the only man that had made a mistake with a woman? Really? Do you think maybe some of us are on here because maybe we were stupid at one time???
> 
> You think maybe you want to get your head straight and stop believing the stupid **** in your head about this woman?????
> 
> THIS IS WHO SHE IS. IT SUCKS. I KNOW... believe me dude, I know....


A friend of mine had the same issue.

He said it was hard accepting that his x was just a very typical lying cheater. Nothing special about her at all. 

Wake up. That’s all you have.


----------



## TJW

Marc878 said:


> He said it was hard accepting that his x was just a very typical lying cheater. Nothing special about her at all.


I was like that for years. I tried to blame it on anything and everything imaginable. Hormones, "sexual addiction", poor church experience, childhood sexual abuse, I even accepted the blame - I was inexperienced in bed, I had an average penis, I carried some extra pounds, was "beta", yada, yada, yada.....

Took me a long time to "get it"..... she was just a typical, lying cheater. That's all. A sinful, selfish woman who wanted to cake eat.

You are certainly not the only man who made a mistake on a woman.


----------



## Arkansas

update

her cousin had told her she could stay in a condo her husband and her has empty .... at 3pm today, she packed up a few things and left

before she left, our 18 year old son was playing video game and I was sitting next to him. She walked up and said "I'm going to miss you" and he said " good bye" and turned back to the game

I went to the door and as she pulled out, she was sobbing and just absolutely crushed and heartbroken faced. 24 years of marriage, 18 years in this house, her 18 year old son .. .and she drove away and left it all 

she did take the papers with her - maybe they'll be signed in the next day or so


I'm sad for the loss of it all, I'm quickly not becoming too sad about a woman who'd do all that for a 21/22 year old kid lover


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Your son handled that like a champ. Don’t feel sorry for her. How does it make you feel that she left? I’m sure it’s a big mix of emotions. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Marc878

Arkansas said:


> update
> 
> her cousin had told her she could stay in a condo her husband and her has empty .... at 3pm today, she packed up a few things and left
> 
> before she left, our 18 year old son was playing video game and I was sitting next to him. *She walked up and said "I'm going to miss you" and he said " good bye" and turned back to the game*
> 
> I went to the door and as she pulled out, she was sobbing and just absolutely crushed and heartbroken faced. 24 years of marriage, 18 years in this house, her 18 year old son .. .and she drove away and left it all
> 
> she did take the papers with her - maybe they'll be signed in the next day or so
> 
> 
> I'm sad for the loss of it all, I'm quickly not becoming too sad about a woman who'd do all that for a 21/22 year old kid lover


Well to be honest no one means much to her so what’s he supposed to think.


----------



## Marc878

Now cut her off completely. No contact only works if you apply it fully.

Don’t keep yourself tied up in this. No one can do that but you.


----------



## Arkansas

how do I feel 

ummm like there is a finality coming, after 9 months of daily torture. I do have grief for the loss of what I saw in this marriage and the memories, maybe even what I thought would be our future. 

I shed some tears earlier but they were for my son and not for her. This isn't easy for him as man as he's being about it. This is tough.

I'm going to drink tequila and watch the original Young Guns with my son. I have no idea how I will sleep tonight. 


New life at 50. Wow.


----------



## Tilted 1

Tomorrow will be better than today and at 50 you got it made.


----------



## Marc878

Arkansas said:


> update
> 
> her cousin had told her she could stay in a condo her husband and her has empty .... at 3pm today, she packed up a few things and left
> 
> before she left, our 18 year old son was playing video game and I was sitting next to him. She walked up and said "I'm going to miss you" and he said " good bye" and turned back to the game
> 
> *I went to the door and as she pulled out, she was sobbing and just absolutely crushed and heartbroken faced. 24 years of marriage, 18 years in this house, her 18 year old son .. .and she drove away and left it all *
> 
> she did take the papers with her - maybe they'll be signed in the next day or so
> 
> 
> I'm sad for the loss of it all, I'm quickly not becoming too sad about a woman who'd do all that for a 21/22 year old kid lover


Those tears are for her not you and your son.


----------



## In Absentia

Arkansas said:


> New life at 50. Wow.


Better than 56... :laugh:


----------



## Arkansas

Marc878 said:


> Those tears are for her not you and your son.


absolutely true

6 years ago her father died at our house ... I moved her mom and dad into our home for about 5 months while he battled kidney cancer because it was close to medical facilities. Anyway, she encased herself and was deeply depressed and wouldn't let anyone help her. I tried, but truth is I didn't know how to cope with it either. That was maybe THE turning point in our marriage and as she wrote to a friend in an email I acquired - she put the top layer on her wall against me. 

So for 6 years she's removed herself from me inside, on the outside she made things look like they were normal.

She is all about self. She comes first, and it doesn't matter the damage done. I compared it in counseling to Thanos and the Soul Stone. He had to sacrifice the only thing he loved to get what he wanted - Gammora. He threw her off the cliff to get it, choice. My wife threw me and my family and all her connections off the cliff for adultery and she chose. 

Now, just get through this End Game and move the hell on.


----------



## In Absentia

It's very difficult to accept, especially when there is infidelity. But blaming yourself is useless. You will never know why it happened. I believe we all do things because of our inner flaws, often because we are weak, we don't know how to deal with it, we are emotionally immature. Kids, work. Life, in one word. The path to self-healing is long and difficult, but I agree with your approach to make it as painless as possible. No point in drag it out. You can even be nice to her. It costs you nothing and it will beneficial to your kids.


----------



## Arkansas

she texts me this morning, basically she wants this, this from inside our home and I said if I get this, this and that and we agreed on everything

I'll have the papers edited tomorrow, to her in the afternoon or on Tuesday


----------



## Arkansas

update - last night she told me she'd sign on Wed

I went through a garbage can in her office to try and figure out all our utilities accts etc... and I found a note to a man who I don't know, talking about how he and her could join forces to this other man she hated. WTF ?? I don't know either man. 

I texted her " who is xxx ??" and she didn't respond. 
I texted later "it doesn't matter can we do this tomorrow?
I texted a bit later"really, don't worry about the notes, I just need this done"

She replied "11:30 at credit union"

and I just met her, she was in between sad and humiliated looking, never mentioned the notes, signed and I walked away


approximately 6 weeks from now all will be finalized

unbelievable to me, I'll never know the full truth or even 10% of what she's done


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Arkansas said:


> update
> 
> her cousin had told her she could stay in a condo her husband and her has empty .... at 3pm today, she packed up a few things and left
> 
> before she left, our 18 year old son was playing video game and I was sitting next to him. She walked up and said "I'm going to miss you" and he said " good bye" and turned back to the game
> 
> I went to the door and as she pulled out, she was sobbing and just absolutely crushed and heartbroken faced. 24 years of marriage, 18 years in this house, her 18 year old son .. .and she drove away and left it all
> 
> she did take the papers with her - maybe they'll be signed in the next day or so
> 
> 
> I'm sad for the loss of it all, I'm quickly not becoming too sad about a woman who'd do all that for a 21/22 year old kid lover


Well, I hope she has fun because most things like this end up like Demi Moore and Ashton Kutcher.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Arkansas said:


> update - last night she told me she'd sign on Wed
> 
> I went through a garbage can in her office to try and figure out all our utilities accts etc... and I found a note to a man who I don't know, talking about how he and her could join forces to this other man she hated. WTF ?? I don't know either man.
> 
> I texted her " who is xxx ??" and she didn't respond.
> I texted later "it doesn't matter can we do this tomorrow?
> I texted a bit later"really, don't worry about the notes, I just need this done"
> 
> She replied "11:30 at credit union"
> 
> and I just met her, she was in between sad and humiliated looking, never mentioned the notes, signed and I walked away
> 
> 
> approximately 6 weeks from now all will be finalized
> 
> unbelievable to me, I'll never know the full truth or even 10% of what she's done


Don’t text her about this stuff. Liars never tell you the entire truth until they are caught.


----------



## BluesPower

I say good for you... 

Since you are divorcing, it may be better that you don't know everything. It may be easier for you to get over her. 

I really hope it is. 

My other hope is that you learn from this experience. You learn to be cautious. You learn something about women. Try to pickup what to look for and stay away from. 

Try to figure out what a real relationship looks like. I don't know but I be that some of us might could have spotted her before all of this. 

When you let yourself love too quickly, too completely, the love goggles mess up your perception. 

So just take this as a learning experience, go to therapy as well. Try to learn about all of this and sometime in the future, you may find a woman that really loves you. 

Good luck...


----------



## Marduk

Arkansas said:


> update - last night she told me she'd sign on Wed
> 
> I went through a garbage can in her office to try and figure out all our utilities accts etc... and I found a note to a man who I don't know, talking about how he and her could join forces to this other man she hated. WTF ?? I don't know either man.
> 
> I texted her " who is xxx ??" and she didn't respond.
> I texted later "it doesn't matter can we do this tomorrow?
> I texted a bit later"really, don't worry about the notes, I just need this done"
> 
> She replied "11:30 at credit union"
> 
> and I just met her, she was in between sad and humiliated looking, never mentioned the notes, signed and I walked away
> 
> 
> approximately 6 weeks from now all will be finalized
> 
> unbelievable to me, I'll never know the full truth or even 10% of what she's done


By the time my buddy divorced his wife for cheating on him with his best friend, she had moved onto a number of different guys, basically whoever would sleep with her. She ended up sleeping with loads of married guys, brothers or friends of most of her girlfriends, whoever.

He had to make peace with it, but did, by moving on. I know it's hard. But it is what it is. She probably went straight from feeling on top of the world and liberated... to realizing that nothing ever comes for free in this world. And now she doesn't have you to pick up the pieces for her.


----------



## Tilted 1

Arkansas said:


> update - last night she told me she'd sign on Wed
> 
> I went through a garbage can in her office to try and figure out all our utilities accts etc... and I found a note to a man who I don't know, talking about how he and her could join forces to this other man she hated. WTF ?? I don't know either man.
> 
> I texted her " who is xxx ??" and she didn't respond.
> I texted later "it doesn't matter can we do this tomorrow?
> I texted a bit later"really, don't worry about the notes, I just need this done"
> 
> She replied "11:30 at credit union"
> 
> and I just met her, she was in between sad and humiliated looking, never mentioned the notes, signed and I walked away
> 
> 
> approximately 6 weeks from now all will be finalized
> 
> unbelievable to me, I'll never know the full truth or even 10% of what she's done


Sorry brother, cheaters lie lie and lie...


----------



## Arkansas

in my heart, I believe she was truly wonderful until 2014 .... the death of her Dad and her starting college and she became totally different 

my judge of character is solid, a fatal law is blind trust and faith and I doubt I'll ever have that again which sucks .... your spouse should 100% trust you and have faith, it's supposed to be that way

 


6-7 weeks, she gives me no troubles, I walk away with 2/3 of our assets .... that's a win for me, I can take something from that


----------



## BluesPower

Arkansas said:


> in my heart, I believe she was truly wonderful until 2014 .... the death of her Dad and her starting college and she became totally different
> 
> my judge of character is solid, a fatal law is blind trust and faith and I doubt I'll ever have that again which sucks .... your spouse should 100% trust you and have faith, it's supposed to be that way
> 
> 6-7 weeks, she gives me no troubles, I walk away with 2/3 of our assets .... that's a win for me, I can take something from that


Hopefully all that works out. I am not sure it matters. And I don't want you to think that I or anyone else is wrong. 

But her just changing on a dime 5 years ago, yes it can happen, but more than likely this is really not the first time she has cheated. And if it is, people usually don't change like that. It is something that they had in them all the time. 

Like you I am a great judge of character, in fact, I don't even have to judge, it is a feeling for me, and I think for the most part, I might have been wrong once in my entire life. If I like you, you are a good guy and if I don't the reason will appear in time. 

With everyone except my Ex W. And a couple of other GF's.

So I don't know if it helps, but I can say that maybe you can be more careful and cautious in the future. It is ok to let someone PROVE something to you over the long term if that makes sense...


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Arkansas said:


> in my heart, I believe she was truly wonderful until 2014 .... the death of her Dad and her starting college and she became totally different
> 
> my judge of character is solid, a fatal law is blind trust and faith and I doubt I'll ever have that again which sucks .... your spouse should 100% trust you and have faith, it's supposed to be that way
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6-7 weeks, she gives me no troubles, I walk away with 2/3 of our assets .... that's a win for me, I can take something from that


That’s fine, but dwelling on it does you zero good.


----------



## Middle of Everything

Arkansas said:


> in my heart, I believe she was truly wonderful until 2014 .... the death of her Dad and her starting college and she became totally different
> 
> my judge of character is solid, a fatal law is blind trust and faith and I doubt I'll ever have that again which sucks .... your spouse should 100% trust you and have faith, it's supposed to be that way
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6-7 weeks, she gives me no troubles, I walk away with 2/3 of our assets .... that's a win for me, I can take something from that


Other people in this thread have given you great advice in areas they are sadly familiar with, infidelity. 

Let me give you my thoughts on one I am sadly familiar with. My Dad passed away when I was 31. My Mom passed away when I was 43. I didn't go crazy and become a different person and cheat on my wife with a 19 year old girl.

People grieve and process things differently. But to give her the excuse of her Dad dying was so hard on her it changed her? Please. People die. Especially parents. It's not an excuse to run roughshod over your husband and family.


----------



## Marduk

Arkansas said:


> in my heart, I believe she was truly wonderful until 2014 .... the death of her Dad and her starting college and she became totally different
> 
> my judge of character is solid, a fatal law is blind trust and faith and I doubt I'll ever have that again which sucks .... your spouse should 100% trust you and have faith, it's supposed to be that way
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6-7 weeks, she gives me no troubles, I walk away with 2/3 of our assets .... that's a win for me, I can take something from that


As I have often said, you don't really know someone until you divorce them.

You're not seeing a change in her. You're seeing who she really is when she doesn't have the willingness or energy to pretend to be someone else.


----------



## Arkansas

her sister, brother, mother, best friends ..... they all say the same thing, my wife had a mental collapse

it doesn't matter now - next 7-8 weeks or so and move the heck on


----------



## Tilted 1

Character flaw, and she proved that by how she treated your son and yourself.


----------



## wilson

Arkansas said:


> her sister, brother, mother, best friends ..... they all say the same thing, my wife had a mental collapse
> 
> it doesn't matter now - next 7-8 weeks or so and move the heck on


Keep in mind that this is the kind of tough lesson she needs in order to have a true change of character. She needs to work through all this muck and come out the other side. Do not swoop in and take the burden off of her so she feels better. She needs to feel the full effect of her actions and deal with the consequences in order to be a become a person.


----------



## colingrant

*She has no fight for me at all. 
*
Arkansas, I'm not sure you gave her a reason to fight for you. You gave her your heart, money and marriage, when she didn't deserve it and didn't even have to work to preserve it. After months of cheating, you ask her what can I do for you? You essentially tried to nice her back and cheaters don't know that language. Why fight for something that's given to you.


----------



## Chuck71

Arkansas said:


> absolutely true
> 
> 6 years ago her father died at our house ... I moved her mom and dad into our home for about 5 months while he battled kidney cancer because it was close to medical facilities. Anyway, she encased herself and was deeply depressed and wouldn't let anyone help her. I tried, but truth is I didn't know how to cope with it either. That was maybe THE turning point in our marriage and as she wrote to a friend in an email I acquired - she put the top layer on her wall against me.
> 
> So for 6 years she's removed herself from me inside, on the outside she made things look like they were normal.
> 
> She is all about self. She comes first, and it doesn't matter the damage done. I compared it in counseling to Thanos and the Soul Stone. He had to sacrifice the only thing he loved to get what he wanted - Gammora. He threw her off the cliff to get it, choice. My wife threw me and my family and all her connections off the cliff for adultery and she chose.
> 
> Now, just get through this End Game and move the hell on.


My XW closed up just like that when her mom died. My MiL was like my 2nd mom.

Five years later, we were through. She too closed off. I tried talking to her, mentioning go talk to

someone. She wouldn't. Even got my mom to try and talk to her. Refused all efforts.

Day came she told me she wanted us to stay M but do our own thing. I countered with MC.

She refused. So I dropped D papers on her. Her wanting to just walk away from 15 years without

making an effort..... was the largest form of disrespect. Only had 60 day wait for it to be final.

To this day I have no clue if she cheated or not. Walking out without a fight was enough for me.

She started reaching out for me near the end of the D but it wasn't what I wanted to hear.

After the D.....I was beyond done. She reached for years. She would now if she had a way

of contacting me. 

Arkansas...... give defiant people exactly what they want. Because in the end it rarely ever

turns out to be what they thought they wanted. She showed you her true colors, leave her out with

the trash. She is showing you who she really is......BELIEVE HER


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Arkansas said:


> her sister, brother, mother, best friends ..... they all say the same thing, my wife had a mental collapse
> 
> it doesn't matter now - next 7-8 weeks or so and move the heck on


Just like you, they are invested and not Doctors. If the roles were reversed, under the EXACT same circumstances, you would be a cheating creep who is a borderline pedo. I was just reading a story about a guy who was making out with a 23 year old youtube personality. Everyone is calling him an old grooming creep.

Yes, it is hard, but do not dwell and listen to her supporters. You all are rewriting her history. Instead of leaning on you, she helped created a porn movie storyline called “I slept with my GF’s mom.” Now, you find evidence of two other men. One she was mad at, another she asked for help. Note, none of those were you, her friends or her family.

If you keep finding reasons, you’ll go back and might end up in the same position again.

Also, reread your OP and make sure you take note of your actions. Do not reward bad behavior with gifts. You bought her a truck, a brand new Iphone, paid for terrible one sided counseling, continued paying for school and now give up 1/3 of the assets. She checked out and had at least one confirmed affair with your daughter’s boyfriend.

I am pointing all of this out because this is the tough part. This is where you and others in your life will feel bad and rewrite history.


----------



## Arkansas

"Arkansas, I'm not sure you gave her a reason to fight for you. "

um .... there is some truth to this, if I had said i want a divorce from the day I found out, then I'd have been giving up and not fighting and she would have been forced to i guess ?? but it would have been fake

this is a good thread for people to read I think - I wish i'd have posted here 9 months back. I do not regret fighting hard, I'm at peace knowing I did all I can. i fought hard for me to know I did, I never wanted to look back and wish I'd have done something more. I did it all and I'm proud I did

1/3 assets is a good win for a man in a divorce in Arkansas. I'm going to pour myself into being the best single Dad a son can have, I have sr photo's to do, invitations, a little graduation party I'll plan, weekend trips with him. I'm getting up every morning and making him breakfast, keeping home made food at nights though I default to grilling (she was a great cook, we'll miss that)

I have joined DivorceCare at a local church, starts this coming Sunday.

I'm going to survive and be better, but a part of me will always deeply love my marriage and what she meant to me.


----------



## Arkansas

I can say this - all the things I've done in the past 9 months were things I've always done. I told myself I'd not stop being the man I promised to be as long as I was married. I held my promises 

I talked to a friend the other day. 6 years after her divorce she says she's never forgiven him. Ok, I do NOT want to be like that. If I was? Then MY soul and my self has been damaged IMO. I told myself and still do everyday that's not going to be me.


----------



## BluesPower

Arkansas said:


> I can say this - all the things I've done in the past 9 months were things I've always done. I told myself I'd not stop being the man I promised to be as long as I was married. I held my promises
> 
> I talked to a friend the other day. 6 years after her divorce she says she's never forgiven him. Ok, I do NOT want to be like that. If I was? Then MY soul and my self has been damaged IMO. I told myself and still do everyday that's not going to be me.


Well 9 months was long enough. I am glad that you were able to wake up though. 

While I respect your sentiments, any longer and you would start to be a fool. 

You see, those vows and promises are great, I believed them myself for a long time... But when they cheat, all that goes out the window. 

Further, make no mistake, you are damaged from this. This is trauma. Trauma damages people, it just done. 

Now, if you can forgive her over time then good for you. But never forget this. Never forget the signs that you missed. Do your best to be no ones fool every again. 

For me, I don't know if I forgave or not, I just don't think of my ex that much. It is a type of indifference that we all should hopefully reach. I don't wish her harm, I just don't care of think about her for the most part...


----------



## Arkansas

BluesPower 

Matthew 6:14-15
14 For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins


I'm trying to live like the above. 

I will say I do recognize the damages .... I'll maybe meet someone in the future and when I do? I'll need to be very cautious that what my x-wife has done to me doesn't harm my chances at finding love in the future. I don't know how to do that, but I'm trying to find out. That's all i can do, search and hope to be the best person i can, right ?


----------



## BluesPower

Arkansas said:


> BluesPower
> 
> Matthew 6:14-15
> 14 For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins
> 
> I'm trying to live like the above.
> 
> I will say I do recognize the damages .... I'll maybe meet someone in the future and when I do? I'll need to be very cautious that what my x-wife has done to me doesn't harm my chances at finding love in the future. I don't know how to do that, but I'm trying to find out. That's all i can do, search and hope to be the best person i can, right ?


I am very familiar with the verse... But notice it does not say that you have to be stupid. Notice that is does not say that you should learn from this. Notice that it never says forget. Because, unlike God, we cannot forget in most situations.

But notice I never said don't forgive. I am emphasizing trying to learn about women/people/relationships.


----------



## Chuck71

Arkansas said:


> I can say this - all the things I've done in the past 9 months were things I've always done. I told myself I'd not stop being the man I promised to be as long as I was married. I held my promises
> 
> I talked to a friend the other day. 6 years after her divorce she says she's never forgiven him. Ok, I do NOT want to be like that. If I was? Then MY soul and my self has been damaged IMO. I told myself and still do everyday that's not going to be me.


Arkansas..... I will ALWAYS love who my XW...WAS. NOT who she turned into. The old "her" is long gone.

Same for your STBXW. You gave more than I would have. Cheating is a deal-breaker.

I would have D her immediately. She saw you wanted to keep the family together and was in church.

Lying cheating manipulators use that against good people. She has turned your life upside down

and twisted your soul any which way it would go. She no longer loves you. So set her free.

She will crash and burn....allow it. 

Many years ago I forgave my XW. Why? I had her at her very best. I was blessed to be with her

during that time. God she was amazing. Who she is now would not interest me in the least.

XW is in some ways a tragic story....somewhat similar to my 1st love. I have posted about 1st love 

often on my four main threads. Sad stories....


----------



## Chuck71

Arkansas said:


> BluesPower
> 
> Matthew 6:14-15
> 14 For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins
> 
> 
> I'm trying to live like the above.
> 
> I will say I do recognize the damages .... I'll maybe meet someone in the future and when I do? I'll need to be very cautious that what my x-wife has done to me doesn't harm my chances at finding love in the future. I don't know how to do that, but I'm trying to find out. That's all i can do, search and hope to be the best person i can, right ?


Proverbs 14:1

I can go OT if you like....


----------



## Adelais

Arkansas said:


> unbelievable to me, I'll never know the full truth or even 10% of what she's done


As much as you think you'd have liked to know, remember, curiosity killed the cat.

You can't unhear something, or forget it once you know...not the kind of things your wife would tell you.


----------



## aquarius1

Adelais said:


> As much as you think you'd have liked to know, remember, curiosity killed the cat.
> 
> You can't unhear something, or forget it once you know...not the kind of things your wife would tell you.


I'm a bit of an alarmist by nature, admittedly. But this whole love triangle thing with several men would have me damn concerned.
I'd stay as far away from this as possible.
I've just got a bad feeling on this one.


----------



## Arkansas

thanks for all the kind words and harsh reality words too - I need them all

I changed door locks on house and texted her last night and she got mad - I said hey, you let him into our house when I wasn't there, and I know he's a liar and untrustworthy, I'm protecting and being safe. We navigated some stuff and this morning she texted that "IT HURT ME DEEPLY"

LOL

um ... hurt deeply? wanna compare? but that's what ya'll are saying .... twist it, turn me into the bad guy and she is the perpetual victim in all this

unbelievable

today lawyer got decree's for divorce and sending to her tomorrow- hope for quick signing


----------



## BluesPower

Arkansas said:


> um ... hurt deeply? wanna compare? but that's what ya'll are saying .... twist it, turn me into the bad guy and she is the perpetual victim in all this
> 
> unbelievable
> 
> today lawyer got decree's for divorce and sending to her tomorrow- hope for quick signing


Now you are starting to understand, keep it up...

When she comes crawling back, DO NOT TAKE HER back...


----------



## sunsetmist

I've followed this and hurt for you--you'll never have the answers you think you want. Childhood sexual abuse changes one's life. Was she home-schooled after this as a protective measure? I'm thinking she didn't have the extensive therapy she needed over the years. 

IMO--a stranger: She married early to someone she trusted. Life happened and she likely wore a (good girl) mask much of your marriage. After her father died, she grieved for a couple of years, then she wanted to enjoy her freedom from the protected life that had been offered by you and her now gone father. Remnants of sexual abuse were no longer masked--boundaries fell. Church and Normal had not given her peace. School was the first big breakaway. By then YOU had become her father. She was 43i-sh and at a critical life-stage. She wanted to soothe the holes in her soul; she thought she could do that with sex with a guy the age she would have dated if she had not married. Then, who knows?? 

This is a made-up possibility. It does not matter. 'Twas NOT your fault--nothing you could have done except maybe to love her less. There is something about hurting the one who loves you so much that gives some folks a sense of control/power? Continue to be the best dad you can be.

You have done well in accepting the advice you need here and letting go of what didn't fit. You have lived much of your life for her and your family. Change is hard, but your are showing great strength. As has been said--beware of her wanting to return--it would be temporary and superficial--that time has passed. Live the life you need now.

Sorry if this is way off--just sounds familiar somehow.


----------



## Chuck71

Arkansas said:


> thanks for all the kind words and harsh reality words too - I need them all
> 
> I changed door locks on house and texted her last night and she got mad - I said hey, you let him into our house when I wasn't there, and I know he's a liar and untrustworthy, I'm protecting and being safe. We navigated some stuff and this morning she texted that "IT HURT ME DEEPLY"
> 
> LOL
> 
> um ... hurt deeply? wanna compare? but that's what ya'll are saying .... twist it, turn me into the bad guy and she is the perpetual victim in all this
> 
> unbelievable
> 
> today lawyer got decree's for divorce and sending to her tomorrow- hope for quick signing


Once she realizes you are serious, she will try and nice you back or maybe even "bang you back."

If you're done, you're done. If you have the remotest thought of anything with her, D her first.

Once she sees she can't pull you back in, that is when her claws will come out.

And when you truly see her for who she is.


----------



## aaarghdub

Similar thing happened to me and my XW as she wanted to stay with the guy and stay married on paper for the increased military housing allowance. Then she tried to set me up with the wife of the guy she was having the affair with. Your STBXW will soon realize her student boyfriend cannot take care of her financially and when she has to carry them both, she will quickly lose sexual attraction to him.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Arkansas

"IMO--a stranger: She married early to someone she trusted. Life happened and she likely wore a (good girl) mask much of your marriage. After her father died, she grieved for a couple of years, then she wanted to enjoy her freedom from the protected life that had been offered by you and her now gone father. Remnants of sexual abuse were no longer masked--boundaries fell. Church and Normal had not given her peace. School was the first big breakaway. By then YOU had become her father. She was 43i-sh and at a critical life-stage. She wanted to soothe the holes in her soul; she thought she could do that with sex with a guy the age she would have dated if she had not married. Then, who knows??
"

That's not off track at all. She wore a great mask for the last 6 years. She bottled everything up, we never had a single argument about anything. She saw all her college people and she wanted to be 18 again and she did. I read an article on limerence a few months back and how people that do what she did completely rewrite the way they remember their marriages. In fact, I brought out cards and notes and letters she'd written me that were beautiful, facebook posts that showed her love and she simply says that her heart wasn't in it. Example - she posted this two days before her Dad died 2013

"18 years ago today, Dad walked me down the aisle and gave me away to an outstanding man. For 18 years (half my life) I have been privileged to share my life and to be tolerated and loved by a devoted, funny, loyal, loving, TRUTHFUL, person. The only things I think I would go back and change, are many of my own selfish actions. However, I can look back on even some of my negative choices and see where growth has happened for the both of us. It is true that I do feel more love toward you at this moment than I ever have. Your support and love through the darkest time of my life has buoyed me and carried me along day by day. I look forward to your goofy ways of trying to make me laugh when I'm crying, and I know that I could not smile without it. Thank you for these years, and for the promise of more. Thank you for filling my life with family. My love always and forever is yours alone."


a couple weeks back I asked her about it and she said " 2 days before Dad died, my foot was broken. You did really good caring for all of us during that time"

even words she wrote down she cannot admit - we had a great life, great love .... she changed. Period.

and maybe people reading this thread can see that - in my situation/their situation, people just change and I don't know why or how. I blame Satan and the person allowing Satan into their hearts. 




For people here who've been through this .... do ya'll still wonder if your x misses you? Do you stay awake and wonder if they're awake somewhere the same, thinking about you? Or maybe they're just really happy while you're really sad? 

I know it doesn't matter but for my heart ... yeah, it kinda does. To think after 24 years she's not grieving the loss of me at all .... man that's just tough. Truth is, I miss her terribly, in so many ways. I remind myself all she did and while I am 100% sure she will never come back even if she did, if she did I couldn't trust anything she said. 

She's supposed to go to our house today and pick a few things up. i consulted with my lawyer yesterday, my son will be home and he said play nice guy. Anything really valuable is locked in my safe anyway. 

divorce decree's and other papers being mailed to her today. she needs to sign them quickly and return. I have no desire to wait around and drag this out


----------



## OnTheFly

Arkansas said:


> To think after 24 years she's not grieving the loss of me at all .... man that's just tough.


A rather stark example of Briffault's Law.


----------



## Middle of Everything

Arkansas said:


> "18 years ago today, Dad walked me down the aisle and gave me away to an outstanding man. For 18 years (half my life) I have been privileged to share my life and *to be tolerated and loved by a devoted, funny, loyal, loving, TRUTHFUL, person. *The only things I think I would go back and change, are many of my own selfish actions. However, I can look back on even some of my negative choices and see where growth has happened for the both of us. It is true that I do feel more love toward you at this moment than I ever have. Your support and love through the darkest time of my life has buoyed me and carried me along day by day. *I look forward to your goofy ways of trying to make me laugh when I'm crying, and I know that I could not smile without it.* Thank you for these years, and for the promise of more. Thank you for filling my life with family. My love always and forever is yours alone."
> 
> 
> a couple weeks back I asked her about it and she said " 2 days before Dad died, my foot was broken. You did really good caring for all of us during that time"
> 
> even words she wrote down she cannot admit - we had a great life, great love .... she changed. Period.
> 
> and maybe people reading this thread can see that - in my situation/their situation, people just change and I don't know why or how. I blame Satan and the person allowing Satan into their hearts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For people here who've been through this .... do ya'll still wonder if your x misses you? Do you stay awake and wonder if they're awake somewhere the same, thinking about you? Or maybe they're just really happy while you're really sad?
> 
> I know it doesn't matter but for my heart ... yeah, it kinda does. *To think after 24 years she's not grieving the loss of me at all .... man that's just tough.* Truth is, I miss her terribly, in so many ways. I remind myself all she did and while I am 100% sure she will never come back even if she did, if she did I couldn't trust anything she said.
> 
> She's supposed to go to our house today and pick a few things up. i consulted with my lawyer yesterday, my son will be home and he said play nice guy. Anything really valuable is locked in my safe anyway.
> 
> divorce decree's and other papers being mailed to her today. she needs to sign them quickly and return. I have no desire to wait around and drag this out


It is super important to be able to make your partner laugh. And maybe it's just me, but she described a loyal dependable FRIEND that can make her laugh in that note. Not someone she is/was attracted to. 

As to the second bolded, she is probably grieving the loss of your paycheck and stability.


----------



## Tilted 1

Arkansas said:


> "IMO--a stranger: She married early to someone she trusted. Life happened and she likely wore a (good girl) mask much of your marriage. After her father died, she grieved for a couple of years, then she wanted to enjoy her freedom from the protected life that had been offered by you and her now gone father. Remnants of sexual abuse were no longer masked--boundaries fell. Church and Normal had not given her peace. School was the first big breakaway. By then YOU had become her father. She was 43i-sh and at a critical life-stage. She wanted to soothe the holes in her soul; she thought she could do that with sex with a guy the age she would have dated if she had not married. Then, who knows??
> "
> 
> That's not off track at all. She wore a great mask for the last 6 years. She bottled everything up, we never had a single argument about anything. She saw all her college people and she wanted to be 18 again and she did. I read an article on limerence a few months back and how people that do what she did completely rewrite the way they remember their marriages. In fact, I brought out cards and notes and letters she'd written me that were beautiful, facebook posts that showed her love and she simply says that her heart wasn't in it. Example - she posted this two days before her Dad died 2013
> 
> "18 years ago today, Dad walked me down the aisle and gave me away to an outstanding man. For 18 years (half my life) I have been privileged to share my life and to be tolerated and loved by a devoted, funny, loyal, loving, TRUTHFUL, person. The only things I think I would go back and change, are many of my own selfish actions. However, I can look back on even some of my negative choices and see where growth has happened for the both of us. It is true that I do feel more love toward you at this moment than I ever have. Your support and love through the darkest time of my life has buoyed me and carried me along day by day. I look forward to your goofy ways of trying to make me laugh when I'm crying, and I know that I could not smile without it. Thank you for these years, and for the promise of more. Thank you for filling my life with family. My love always and forever is yours alone."
> 
> 
> a couple weeks back I asked her about it and she said " 2 days before Dad died, my foot was broken. You did really good caring for all of us during that time"
> 
> even words she wrote down she cannot admit - we had a great life, great love .... she changed. Period.
> 
> and maybe people reading this thread can see that - in my situation/their situation, people just change and I don't know why or how. I blame Satan and the person allowing Satan into their hearts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For people here who've been through this .... do ya'll still wonder if your x misses you? Do you stay awake and wonder if they're awake somewhere the same, thinking about you? Or maybe they're just really happy while you're really sad?
> 
> I know it doesn't matter but for my heart ... yeah, it kinda does. To think after 24 years she's not grieving the loss of me at all .... man that's just tough. Truth is, I miss her terribly, in so many ways. I remind myself all she did and while I am 100% sure she will never come back even if she did, if she did I couldn't trust anything she said.
> 
> 
> 
> She's supposed to go to our house today and pick a few things up. i consulted with my lawyer yesterday, my son will be home and he said play nice guy. Anything really valuable is locked in my safe anyway.
> 
> divorce decree's and other papers being mailed to her today. she needs to sign them quickly and return. I have no desire to wait around and drag this out


Nope, they will not have any regret,as long as her good time roll. But really, after the fact she walks out on the son? Do you really want remorse from that turd? Quit being the doormat or you'll end up with another woman like her. Quit getting your validation from her or anyone time to quit being THAT nice guy all the damn time, it is really ok to get mad, and hate what she did to you don't give her that power over you. 

Time to get off the floor and show your Son what a real man does when things don't turn out the way you thought. Dust yourself on an move on she has!!


----------



## wilson

Arkansas said:


> I know it doesn't matter but for my heart ... yeah, it kinda does. To think after 24 years she's not grieving the loss of me at all .... man that's just tough. Truth is, I miss her terribly, in so many ways. I remind myself all she did and while I am 100% sure she will never come back even if she did, if she did I couldn't trust anything she said.


This is totally normal and should be expected. It's like you're in mourning for your relationship. Realize that these feelings are powerful, but they are temporary. In a short while this fog will lift and you be able to think more clearly. Refrain from making any big decisions about life while you're in this state with your emotions all over the place. It will get better over time. Don't do anything rash or drastic to make these feelings go away.


----------



## Tilted 1

The sooner you throw this waste in the trash the sooner you quit smelling it now only thing left is to wash your hands.


----------



## Hoosier

"For people here who've been through this .... do ya'll still wonder if your x misses you? Do you stay awake and wonder if they're awake somewhere the same, thinking about you? Or maybe they're just really happy while you're really sad?'


9 Years divorced from a 30 year old marriage, that ended suddenly and totally unexpectedly, at least to me. For probably the first three years post divorce I asked myself those questions at least three or four times a week. After 9 years, about once a year, and usually after reading a post like yours. Best news is now it really doesnt matter to me, heck the guy she ran off with just died a couple of weeks ago, and I only smiled lightly. (more to do with him hacking my kids inheritance if my x were to predecease him). she has her life (totally screwed up) and I have mine. The answer my friend is living well. Living well is the best revenge. Make yourself the best you can be, love those kids, love your life. Its ok to miss the old one, but keep yourself in the present. Time is your answer, Attack your problem in a healthy way and Time will be your savior.


----------



## Arkansas

Middle of Everything - she also said "It is true that I do feel more love toward you at this moment than I ever have. ........... My love always and forever is yours alone."

doesn't matter now, but I really am baffled how someone can completely change their history to justify their actions

https://livingwithlimerence.com/2018/11/25/rewriting-history/

the above is exactly how my wife did things - I showed her something on limerance once and she shrugged it off even though it fit her to a T

she explained what she did as a temporary compromise of her values - that she was still ethical and good and moral ... and then continue to do the same things literally or in her heart or both. Unbelievable still  



Hoosier - I've always been a planner. I plan my life in weeks and months ahead. I lost that for the last 9 months and i'm regaining it. It feels good to have a plan for something, a schedule for something 

I'll survive this


----------



## BluesPower

Arkansas said:


> Middle of Everything - she also said "It is true that I do feel more love toward you at this moment than I ever have. ........... My love always and forever is yours alone."
> 
> doesn't matter now, but I really am baffled how someone can completely change their history to justify their actions
> 
> https://livingwithlimerence.com/2018/11/25/rewriting-history/
> 
> the above is exactly how my wife did things - I showed her something on limerance once and she shrugged it off even though it fit her to a T
> 
> Hoosier - I've always been a planner. I plan my life in weeks and months ahead. I lost that for the last 9 months and i'm regaining it. It feels good to have a plan for something, a schedule for something
> 
> I'll survive this


I am trying to find some way to help you understand. I don't want to insult you, I don't what to make you feel worse. 

Your wife, is a liar. In fact, you are old enough to understand that LOT'S of people are liars. Lots. 

Let's just say that she really loved you are one time. What are those bad choices that she made at one time in your relationship. Do you honestly thing it is just being selfish. 

I understand that you don't want to believe the things that I and others are telling you. 

You appear to be a Christian man, and all of that is great... But at some point you have to realize that your wife did not JUST recently stop loving you, she has not for a while. 

I understand that all of this hurts. I get it. But I believe that it is better to face reality and learn from it that to think the things you are thinking. To me, there thought, which are not really reality, hurt you. 

My wish for you is for you to learn about life, people, women and relationships and after all of this is over find the right woman to spend your life with. To be happy, to live a full life, with love through out... 

So think about this one and what it may mean in this situation...

"Look, I am sending you out like sheep among wolves; therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves."


----------



## In Absentia

Arkansas said:


> https://livingwithlimerence.com/2018/11/25/rewriting-history/


sounds familiar... :frown2:


----------



## Arkansas

"your wife did not JUST recently stop loving you, she has not for a while."

I understand this now .... still a hard pill to swallow. But yeah, I do get it


----------



## Chuck71

Arkansas said:


> For people here who've been through this .... do ya'll still wonder if your x misses you? Do you stay awake and wonder if they're awake somewhere the same, thinking about you? Or maybe they're just really happy while you're really sad?
> 
> I know it doesn't matter but for my heart ... yeah, it kinda does. To think after 24 years she's not grieving the loss of me at all .... man that's just tough. Truth is, I miss her terribly, in so many ways. I remind myself all she did and while I am 100% sure she will never come back even if she did, if she did I couldn't trust anything she said.
> 
> She's supposed to go to our house today and pick a few things up. i consulted with my lawyer yesterday, my son will be home and he said play nice guy. Anything really valuable is locked in my safe anyway.
> 
> divorce decree's and other papers being mailed to her today. she needs to sign them quickly and return. I have no desire to wait around and drag this out


At one time and for a long time, she did love you. But in some people, when tragedy happens....

they snap. What happened to her as a child stunted her emotional growth. She remained in that

age emotionally. Now during good times and even complacent times...they appear okay.

The pain from her past she never dealt with. She ran, hid, buried it deep within her.

When a tragedy occurs later in their life, they revert back to the age they were, when their emotional

growth was stunted. They act in very similar ways. May not make sense to you now but you're

"clouded" by everything. And that is 110% normal.

As for the will she miss me stuff..... STOP the damn pain shopping. What she feels about you

is of ZERO concern to you. If she wanted you back, she'd let you know. But as you say... no trust.

I am a firm believer in, if you can't trust you truly can't love...at least in a healthy way.

You're scared of......uncertainty. You had your life planned out. Now things have changed.

I can't stress enough that there is a life out there waiting for you. Yes it will be hard at times 

but your situation would never change, if you stayed. Staying with a cheating spouse is soul destroying.

Learn about yourself.....you've changed in the last 24 years. 24 years ago I just finished college and

had a vacation to remember with 2nd love. Even got a Nolan Ryan rookie card out of it.

More optimism and less wallowing. But I was where you are now, seven years ago.

Just trying to get you over the hill to see the light.


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

Arkansas said:


> That's not off track at all. She wore a great mask for the last 6 years. She bottled everything up, we never had a single argument about anything. She saw all her college people and she wanted to be 18 again and she did. I read an article on limerence a few months back and how people that do what she did completely rewrite the way they remember their marriages. In fact, I brought out cards and notes and letters she'd written me that were beautiful, facebook posts that showed her love and she simply says that her heart wasn't in it. Example - *she posted this* two days before her Dad died 2013
> 
> "18 years ago today, Dad walked me down the aisle and gave me away to an outstanding man. For 18 years (half my life) I have been privileged to share my life and to be tolerated and loved by a devoted, funny, loyal, loving, TRUTHFUL, person. The only things I think I would go back and change, are many of my own selfish actions. However, I can look back on even some of my negative choices and see where growth has happened for the both of us. It is true that I do feel more love toward you at this moment than I ever have. Your support and love through the darkest time of my life has buoyed me and carried me along day by day. I look forward to your goofy ways of trying to make me laugh when I'm crying, and I know that I could not smile without it. Thank you for these years, and for the promise of more. Thank you for filling my life with family. My love always and forever is yours alone."
> 
> 
> a couple weeks back I asked her about it and she said " 2 days before Dad died, my foot was broken. You did really good caring for all of us during that time"
> 
> even words she wrote down she cannot admit - we had a great life, great love .... she changed. Period.
> 
> and maybe people reading this thread can see that - in my situation/their situation, people just change and I don't know why or how. I blame Satan and the person allowing Satan into their hearts.


She "posted" this? Like on Facebook or something for public consumption? Then the words were designed for impression management of an audience, and to bind you closer to her, not to express any honest or heartfelt love for you to you.



Arkansas said:


> For people here who've been through this .... do ya'll still wonder if your x misses you? Do you stay awake and wonder if they're awake somewhere the same, thinking about you? Or maybe they're just really happy while you're really sad?
> 
> I know it doesn't matter but for my heart ... yeah, it kinda does. To think after 24 years she's not grieving the loss of me at all .... man that's just tough. Truth is, I miss her terribly, in so many ways. I remind myself all she did and while I am 100% sure she will never come back even if she did, if she did I couldn't trust anything she said.
> 
> She's supposed to go to our house today and pick a few things up. i consulted with my lawyer yesterday, my son will be home and he said play nice guy. Anything really valuable is locked in my safe anyway.
> 
> divorce decree's and other papers being mailed to her today. she needs to sign them quickly and return. I have no desire to wait around and drag this out


No, I don't care if my ex misses me or not. I know for a fact that my ex doesn't wonder if I'm sad or not. Clearly anyone who can cheat on you doesn't care a whit for your feelings. It's not worth my mental energy to wonder in return.

You miss the illusion of the wife you thought you had. It's hard to learn that this person you loved so deeply was never real.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Arkansas, did I understand one of your earlier posts correctly in that your wife had this "kid" dating your 19 year old daughter earlier (prior to starting something with him)? If so this is well and truly sick!!!!


----------



## Arkansas

manfromlamancha said:


> Arkansas, did I understand one of your earlier posts correctly in that your wife had this "kid" dating your 19 year old daughter earlier (prior to starting something with him)? If so this is well and truly sick!!!!


yes, she set him and her up on a couple of dates 


Chuck71 good words, I'm reading them, listening to what people are saying ... its a tough thing none the less. Alone is the biggest fear in the world for me and I'll have to figure it out. I process things pretty fast, one I get my mind around it. I'm figuring this out, I have some support people ..... I'll survive. 

Some days ... its just really hard and tough


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

Arkansas said:


> Chuck71 good words, I'm reading them, listening to what people are saying ... its a tough thing none the less. Alone is the biggest fear in the world for me and I'll have to figure it out. I process things pretty fast, one I get my mind around it. I'm figuring this out, I have some support people ..... I'll survive.


Being alone is fine. Loads better than being stabbed in the back by the person that's supposed to have your back.

Give yourself the time you need to adjust to it. And setbacks are perfectly normal, but you just get back on track.


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## Chuck71

Arkansas said:


> yes, she set him and her up on a couple of dates
> 
> 
> Chuck71 good words, I'm reading them, listening to what people are saying ... its a tough thing none the less. Alone is the biggest fear in the world for me and I'll have to figure it out. I process things pretty fast, one I get my mind around it. I'm figuring this out, I have some support people ..... I'll survive.
> 
> Some days ... its just really hard and tough


I feared being alone, then I relished it. Several females tried to take my living alone from me.

All denied! Then there was EQ...... you give it up willingly when you just "know."

But she knows at any time, I'm cool with having it again.


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## Kamstel

Sorry if I’ve missed it, have you filed yet? If not, what are you waiting for?


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## Tilted 1

Arkansas, your a good guy, and want what the world said would be a good marriage. But because it failed (the problem is) you want somewhere to accept the full and total blame. You don't need to get or keep that from her, it's Not Your Fault she destroyed it all and was never ever truly there. 

Since your a planner, do make a new plan of what you want from your life not because you think somebody will complete it. Only you can make yourself understand what she stole from you.

Your Honor, your Love, your Joy, your Fulfillment, your Hope's, your Goodness, your Energy, your Focus, your Purpose, your Goals, and so many other things that betrayal did to you. So many things that most here could go on for a long time.

You are doing the right thing and you know it, but have a tendency to take all the responsibility of another you don't deserve that.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Kamstel said:


> Sorry if I’ve missed it, have you filed yet? If not, what are you waiting for?


He’s waiting for her to sign the agreement.


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## Chuck71

I will pull a couple of @zillard examples. For years he carried his rocks, which one should. But he also carried

his Ws rocks too, which is not his responsibility. It absolved her of responsibility. In the end he gave her 

rocks back to her. He also stated in a M he was the pilot and she was the co-pilot. The co-pilot has just

as many critical responsibilities as does the pilot. He met his obligations, she didn't.

That's a large part of the reason their M ended. And their R failed miserably.

A M is a team effort, one can not do it alone. It's so easy to go through a M on auto-pilot. One starts it,

other sees it and notices it's such an easier way. Complacency and poor communication will kill a M

every time, unless you live on auto-pilot. But that can end at any time and when it does.....

it is swift, destructive and soul wrenching. When one cheats....it is NOT the BSs fault.

A moral person would walk up and say they want out of the M. D and go after whatever it is they want.

But cheaters want the best of both worlds......stability and financial security of a M but also the wild 

freakness of a fling. One can not have both. Check out open Ms in the search engine here.


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## Arkansas

filing has happened - its a 30 day wait, and papers have been sent from layer to her to sign ... all is set in motion with an estimated 5-6 weeks before court date to finalize


Tilted 1 - much appreciated on this words.



it takes 2 people to make a marriage, my marriage was missing the other half. I know that. I know she hasn't loved me like a wife should love a husband in at least 6 years since her Dad died. I know my value and worth is directly tied to how I can provide

it all sucks


I have a May 23rd graduation party in the planning for my son with friends/family. My best guy friend wants me to elk hunt with him this fall, a September hunt in Colorado. I have home projects I need to tackle, one at a time. My job is going to offer a CCNA 3-4 month course, I can jump into that. I run/cycle/racquetball .... I'm active and with my son we do stuff

if I buy a boat I'll club bass fish again maybe


this is a crazy new thing - I'll be bitter one moment, mad that she used me so hard the next, and then later just so so sad at how much I miss her. hard to wrap my mind around it all - but i will


----------



## Betrayedone

There is no such person as the only love of your life.....There are many people out there that would fit the bill for any of us. The sooner you accept this the calmer you will become.


----------



## dadstartingover

"What I am asking ... has anyone had a marriage end like that? Where 24 years, the woman just goes crazy, has an affair with a 21 year old kid, blames everyone, rewrites our marriage past almost to justify her actions, has a husband who tries for 8 hard months everything he can to stay ....." 

This is, in essence, the general summation of nearly every story I hear from my readers who reach out to me.

1. Wife had childhood baggage that was never dealt with effectively, if at all.
2. Something occurred to break down her boundaries and cause hell to break loose.
3. Good husband is left wondering what in the world just happened and has a difficult time coping with the sudden change in worldview.

There are A LOT of broken people out there. The vast majority don't actively work on bettering themselves or actively deal with their issues. These people are not suitable for relationships. Ironically, these are the people that REALLY need relationships (in their mind) and have a really good knack and finding "nice guys" with no boundaries and little self-esteem to partner up with. They leave a trail of these men behind them... along with a string of broken kids that will continue on the legacy.


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## Arkansas

"There are A LOT of broken people out there."

interesting that her sister, brother and mother all three used the word "broken" to describe her


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## Tilted 1

And your just feeling the normal loss of betrayal, it's ok for a time, but you need to worry only for you.


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## Chuck71

Arkansas..... I see you're doing a lot of reading! Posting on other's threads. I always see that as a sign

of growth. Are you up for some reading assignments on the thread?


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## Arkansas

"Are you up for some reading assignments on the thread?"

sure



Chuck71 I process things fast. I joined a DivorceCare group and all the women but one had been through it once before. I was told they cannot forgive, cannot let go. That's not going to be me.

Yesterday was crushing, the feelings of being left, abandoned, worthlessness .... they were all there and I slept and I woke this morning through all that. How I'll find my way through this I don't know, but I will figure this out somehow. I'm coming to terms with knowing my incredible marriage died 6 years ago, and the incredible woman I was married to turned into someone that nobody wants to be around really. I don't regret the 24 years, I don't regret trying so hard for 9 months. I hope someone someone sees value in me to fight like that for me is all. 


If I can share anything for anyone else ... that's easy to do, right ?


----------



## Chuck71

Arkansas said:


> "Are you up for some reading assignments on the thread?"
> 
> sure
> 
> 
> 
> *Chuck71 I process things fast.* I joined a DivorceCare group and all the women but one had been through it once before. I was told they cannot forgive, cannot let go. That's not going to be me.
> 
> Yesterday was crushing, the feelings of being left, abandoned, worthlessness .... they were all there and I slept and I woke this morning through all that. How I'll find my way through this I don't know, but I will figure this out somehow. I'm coming to terms with knowing my incredible marriage died 6 years ago, and the incredible woman I was married to turned into someone that nobody wants to be around really. I don't regret the 24 years, I don't regret trying so hard for 9 months. I hope someone someone sees value in me to fight like that for me is all.
> 
> 
> If I can share anything for anyone else ... that's easy to do, right ?


Good! Then you can knock these out quickly. I selected these because when I came here, I felt

crushed.....just like you do now. Enjoy the reading, sage advice throughout!

https://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/63357-time-regroup-move.html

https://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/60683-what-do-i-dont-know.html

https://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/164673-long-painful-path.html

And one letting you know the pain when you do not grow correctly......

https://talkaboutmarriage.com/going...ong-sotry-prob-familar-need-some-support.html

Yeah they're old but dynamics....all the same


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## Arkansas

"Yeah they're old but dynamics....all the same"

the dynamics are the same .... it is very interesting to see that

every situation is unique in ways but the similarities are many and not coincidental



so the question ... why do people (women in my case) destroy 15 or 20 or 25 years of what they've built? truly a mental disorder or just a complete personality change or ?? what cause the cracks and the breaks? I'll never know.


----------



## Hoosier

My sister gave me the answer. "Crazy people do crazy things." Best answer I know.


----------



## Tilted 1

Arkansas said:


> so the question ... why do people (women in my case) destroy 15 or 20 or 25 years of what they've built? truly a mental disorder or just a complete personality change or ?? what cause the cracks and the breaks? I'll never know.


You know l think boredom, routine, familiarity, fantasy love belief, or selfish, self serving, raw desire, unmet fulfilllment, but it not just women but men as well. The limerance state is where one get lost...

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...s/201109/limerence-when-is-it-more-heartbreak

What is that final push, I really don't know but it does over take the cheating partner to do and be what they perceived as happiness. Then the betrayed is aghast in bewilderment on they thought they knew who their partner was. I guess to some it could be that they think they are finally and truly with their soulmate. 

And it could be, but it's a character flaw they have and their need to cross that line the conpartmentalize and justify their needs above yours. Then this they think this is really what they deserve. So very few ever come back after the line is crossed they just repeat the cycle until they think they found it. But if the spouse was everything in the first place isn't a measurement of you, but the flaw in them to cross the line in what once was a married life for the betrayed spouse. 

Now as you said, you have found things out about yourself, change them for the good. But there is never a guarantee it can can't happen again. Just do your best to vet your next partner.


----------



## Tilted 1

Arkansas, l feel for you but understand this the mind movies that will play through your head and may never ever stop seeing you woman, doing things to the other man you wished she would have given to you. Over and over. 

This isn't a life you deserved or earned dispite of your flaws. This was her choice and her violations against you. The time has come to pick up your pieces, and start anew with someone who WILL love you and want to remain true to you because she loves you.


----------



## In Absentia

Tilted 1 said:


> You know l think boredom, routine, familiarity, fantasy love belief, or selfish, self serving, raw desire, unmet fulfilllment, but it not just women but men as well. The limerance state is where one get lost...
> 
> https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...s/201109/limerence-when-is-it-more-heartbreak


I think I have a mild case of limerence... towards my wife. It's never been obsessive, but I can relate to it.


----------



## Tilted 1

In Absentia said:


> I think I have a mild case of limerence... towards my wife. It's never been obsessive, but I can relate to it.


Yes, I believe you do Absentia, and to stay on track with the OP. I do hope he understands as his title says somewhere in our lives it becomes a force each of us will go through.


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## Arkansas

Limerence is absolutely the best way to describe her - the parts like rewriting our marriage history is probably the #1 thing that baffles me how a mind can do that

I know now, my wife that I loved so much is gone. Her love for me, is gone. I made a decision and said no more. Its really as simple as that and my logical, reasonable mind knows that. I have a massive fear of lonely, and I'd rather die than be alone the rest of my life sometimes I think. I used to be scared of death, no longer. 

That's for the 11 pages - really, it DOES matter to hear others having similar situations. 

I joined a divorce support group at a church last week. I am thinking about my future, my job and where I might want to live and options. I'm going to spend spring and summer fixing up my house. I'm going to focus on my 18 year old son the next 4 months through his last 1/2 of his Sr year in high school


----------



## Tilted 1

Arkansas said:


> Limerence is absolutely the best way to describe her - the parts like rewriting our marriage history is probably the #1 thing that baffles me how a mind can do that
> 
> I know now, my wife that I loved so much is gone. Her love for me, is gone. I made a decision and said no more. Its really as simple as that and my logical, reasonable mind knows that. I have a massive fear of lonely, and I'd rather die than be alone the rest of my life sometimes I think. I used to be scared of death, no longer.
> 
> That's for the 11 pages - really, it DOES matter to hear others having similar situations.
> 
> I joined a divorce support group at a church last week. I am thinking about my future, my job and where I might want to live and options. I'm going to spend spring and summer fixing up my house. I'm going to focus on my 18 year old son the next 4 months through his last 1/2 of his Sr year in high school


Chuck gave to some similar threads to read, and the reason you may not get responses you desire is they also are trying to get over it! But the one l am reading current at the moment from truth22 he's in Vegas and she's in Cali he also wants his old life back. 

Your joining a support group is a good first move, and it's great that you will choose somewhere new, and with the last remaining days of high school. Your doing as we all do put one step in front of the other.


----------



## Tilted 1

But the reason you may not get reply so is because it triggers their memory, and they know why would they want to relive the pain they have come so far trying to get over it, and us the hurt and wounded are here trying to be of assistance in the only way we can. Or if some do the respond they can be jaded and may feel somewhat uncaring but its the only way to be upfront and direct. 

Now as others if you stay you can offer what you think will be in there best interest like truth22 in the thread Vegas to Cali.


----------



## Chuck71

The threads I sent were road maps to success and how to deal with a BSC spouse. I went back and re-read

each one of these once over the past 3-4 years. I always look for the positivity. Plus the occasional sports

banter and joking. Also you see some who try to get out of their situation and.....slide right back into it.

I was re-reading ReGroup's thread in the summer '15 and really noticed how Mav spoke of setting

boundaries with your parents. Right about the time I was finished with the re-read, mom had a heart attack.

But what got her was dementia. She went from a great mom to a complete biotch.

Re-reading that thread helped me in so many ways. But you have a point.... if you are still jaded it is

a hard read. In my case I was over her before the D was final.


----------



## MJJEAN

Arkansas said:


> "In fact, I brought out cards and notes and letters she'd written me that were beautiful, facebook posts that showed her love and she simply says that her heart wasn't in it. Example - she posted this two days before her Dad died 2013
> 
> "18 years ago today, Dad walked me down the aisle and gave me away to an outstanding man. For 18 years (half my life) I have been privileged to share my life and to be tolerated and loved by a devoted, funny, loyal, loving, TRUTHFUL, person. The only things I think I would go back and change, are many of my own selfish actions. However, I can look back on even some of my negative choices and see where growth has happened for the both of us. It is true that I do feel more love toward you at this moment than I ever have. Your support and love through the darkest time of my life has buoyed me and carried me along day by day. I look forward to your goofy ways of trying to make me laugh when I'm crying, and I know that I could not smile without it. Thank you for these years, and for the promise of more. Thank you for filling my life with family. My love always and forever is yours alone."
> 
> 
> a couple weeks back I asked her about it and she said " 2 days before Dad died, my foot was broken. You did really good caring for all of us during that time"
> 
> even words she wrote down she cannot admit - we had a great life, great love .... she changed. Period.


I have a different view. I don't think she re-wrote marital history at all. 

When you're an abused kid, you try to follow the rules and do the right thing very hard, perhaps much harder than those who haven't been abused. You also want, above all else, safety and security.

I think you were her safety and security. She followed the "rules" and, as an early adult, properly married a good man just the way she was supposed to. You gave her love and you provided her with the safety and security she craved. The problem seems to be that she loved you for the kind of man you are and what you gave her, but not in the way a wife loves a husband. I think, reading between the lines of her post, that she wanted to love you the way a wife loves a husband, and she tried to love you the way a wife loves a husband, but just...couldn't. 

Once her father died, she was faced with her own mortality and, without Dad to make proud or disappoint, following the rules became less important. I theorize she thought about her life, her marriage, and came to the conclusion something was missing. And it was. She loved you, but was never in love with you. So, she decided to attempt to experience what she'd been missing out on all these years. Instead of doing what was "best" or "right", she decided to do what she wanted instead.

After that, well, you were started on the road you travel now.

Does she miss you from time to time? Probably. After over 20 years, I'd miss even an enemy.


----------



## red oak

Arkansas said:


> "Yeah they're old but dynamics....all the same"
> 
> the dynamics are the same .... it is very interesting to see that
> 
> every situation is unique in ways but the similarities are many and not coincidental
> 
> 
> 
> *so the question ... why do people (women in my case) destroy 15 or 20 or 25 years of what they've built? *truly a mental disorder or just a complete personality change or ?? what cause the cracks and the breaks? I'll never know.


We are all under attack.
Women disproportionately file for the majority of divorces. Women are also targeted more than men.

Although many choose not to recognize, or accept, how dating sets in motion a setup for future disappointment, as compared to courting.


----------



## Arkansas

MJJEAN 

"but not in the way a wife loves a husband."


I'll just say this. I have boxes of cards, letters and notes I wrote her and she wrote me. Many facebook posts showing her love for me. Not a single person that knows us would ever have said she wasn't in love with me, and I've asked many just in case she was trying to tell me and I just didn't see it

I told my Mom and Dad everything a week ago. He's 85, she's 75 and they've been 55 years married. A couple days later my Mom asks if I was sure she cheated or just thought it. I said of course I know and she says yeah but do you REALLY know? Because your wife would never ever do that. They cannot accept it, because she's not that kind of woman.

I found a notebook today that she'd written prayers in, 2013 before her Dad died. They were prayers for our kids, for me, for my job, for her Dad and for herself. She didn't mention in any of it that she was hating our marriage or really unhappy etc.

Understand I'm closer to her Mom, sister, brother and her best friends than she is. They all support me and are baffled at her. 


So ... knowing it all? I have no doubt she loved me deeply until after her Dad died. When she slipped into that deep depression she fell into, nobody could reach her and she wouldn't go counseling. She started drinking a lot, maybe a bottle of wine or more a night, whiskey during periods. When she came out of the depression and started college, she changed. Dramatically, into who she is right now. Someone nobody likes, not even her son 


I'm afraid for her. For her drinking. I hope she don't run around bar whoring. She's devalued herself. She has no self respect. I'll never take her back even if a small piece of me wants to. I will help her any way I can without being used/manipulated, much like I've helped other people in the past. 


But I've thought it hard for 9 months .... she did love me deeply. She found a way to unbind from me and go with a 21 year old kid. I don't know how, I'll never know how. My love runs differently that that  

in some situations like this what you said might be true, but in this case? I don't think so


----------



## Chuck71

In August '12 we had our together ann. not the M ann. A note filled with love, happiness....just like yours

Arkansas. FF less than 90 days and we had DDay. After she left the house when D was final, I was cleaning

up the mess she left and I found it. Sort of made me laugh.

The deal is....some people have so much hurt and anger inside them. They have no clue how to deal

with it, process it, or even talk about it. It has to go......somewhere. And that's where 

you come in. Who else is she going to do this to?

In my case, my XW/W at time lost her dad about a year before we met, her mom about ten years after

we met, her one decent brother to prison about a year before her mom passed, and her son.

Her son devolved into a complete thug and she was forced to kick him out. He was 21 at the time.

About two years later....we were through. I knew she was regressing but she shut me out.

Most days she would hide it to the point she seemed to be coming out of her shell. Short lived.

On DDay everything was my fault. I shoulda done this, shoulda done that... This continued up until we filed

for D and the first half of our 60 day wait. She was on one of her rants and I asked her if she worked for

a travel company. Confused she said no and I replied with 'Well it sounds as if you're trying to send me

on a guilt trip.' 

You spent 20+ years with her....part of you will always love her. In 24 years, she made you feel wonderful

for about 22 of them, just not the last couple. But you remember who she WAS, not who she IS.

They are two distinctly different people. She is an adult, no need in trying to help her after D.

She found it easy to cheat with a guy near her own son's age, she is perfectly capable of seeking out therapy.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Arkansas said:


> *yes, she set him and her up on a couple of dates *
> 
> 
> Chuck71 good words, I'm reading them, listening to what people are saying ... its a tough thing none the less. Alone is the biggest fear in the world for me and I'll have to figure it out. I process things pretty fast, one I get my mind around it. I'm figuring this out, I have some support people ..... I'll survive.
> 
> Some days ... its just really hard and tough


I still cannot get my head round this!!! Did she set him up on a couple of dates with your daughter after she started screwing him ?!? How does your daughter feel about this ???


----------



## Arkansas

> for about 22 of them, just not the last couple. But you remember who she WAS, not who she IS.
> 
> They are two distinctly different people. She is an adult, no need in trying to help her after D.
> 
> She found it easy to cheat with a guy near her own son's age, she is perfectly capable of seeking out therapy.



all the above is absolutely true and my logical and reasonable self knows it ... fully understanding and detaching / unbinding myself from 24 years of marriage makes it a bit hard some days 




> I still cannot get my head round this!!! Did she set him up on a couple of dates with your daughter after she started screwing him ?!? How does your daughter feel about this ???



If I had to guess the timeline ... my wife started becoming emotionally attached, her limerence had began and she saw this kid as wonderful and wanted my daughter to see it equally. After my daughter said no (she told me the kid freaked her out a bit) then my wife decided in some weird way to go for it herself I guess ?

At that point, my wife started using the hope of getting the two of them together as a smoke screen. I don't know if that was originally it or not. I'll never know.




There is truth in that it always seems to come back to me. If I had 100 things a man is supposed to do, I did 95 of them, 96 maybe .... and the 3-5 things I didn't do ? I wasn't aware I wasn't doing and had I known I'd have changed. 

She'll never see that - but everyone else does. That's why her family and her friends are still my family and friends. So in my heart I KNOW it wasn't me, no matter how much she tries to pin it because nobody else see's it that way either

I take some comfort in that , because it would crush me if I knew the destruction of this marriage was on me. Its not - its on her and she doesn't feel crushed and with that knowledge I know Divorce is my only option. 


I'm way better today than even 10 days ago. I have removed 95% of her things from this house, packed and in the garage. She better not delay this divorce, I do not have to be nice forever


----------



## Cynthia

Arkansas said:


> There is truth in that it always seems to come back to me. If I had 100 things a man is supposed to do, I did 95 of them, 96 maybe .... and the 3-5 things I didn't do ? I wasn't aware I wasn't doing and had I known I'd have changed.


No. Just no. If you had done those five things and more, it would not have changed a thing. She would simply make up more excuses. This has nothing to do with what you did or did not do. This has everything to do with her dysfunction.


----------



## Chuck71

You will have hard days, normal 110%. Hell I did and I knew we were beyond done.

They will decrease with time. What scared me was 1st's....1st Christmas, T'Giving, when we were

a couple, getting M. Over 90% of WSs try to come back. But the difference is most wish to "on THEIR

terms." They want you to rugsweep everything and go back to the "pre-adultery" days.

Some even act remorseful but for only a short period, then scream bloody murder when you just can't 

get past it "on their timetable." And some go as far as "banging you back" for six-nine months and this

is followed by a repeat version of the torment (cheating) they inflicted in the past.

There is no "me" in a M. Somewhere along the way, she forgot that.


----------



## Chuck71

Cynthia said:


> No. Just no. If you had done those five things and more, it would not have changed a thing. She would simply make up more excuses. This has nothing to do with what you did or did not do. This has everything to do with her dysfunction.


Spot on! These are termed as "covert contracts." You could leave the lid off of the toothpaste 

and they would turn it into WW3. In my DDay time....my STBXW berated me for being selfish.

When only four months prior lauded me in a local paper for being the greatest SiL to her mom and step-dad

to her son. But that's how damaged people think.


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

The written word isn't worth anything. My ex could pen the most loving and romantic cards and notes while deep in the throes of an affair.

Broken people have ways of writing what they think you want to hear, and the things they want to mean. They convince themselves they really mean it at the moment of writing it. And they probably do. Then they head out and **** someone else, and mean everything they tell that person too.


----------



## Arkansas

> No. Just no. If you had done those five things and more, it would not have changed a thing. She would simply make up more excuses. This has nothing to do with what you did or did not do. This has everything to do with her dysfunction.


Today ... she sent her sister a text. Hasn't spoken to her in 9 months and in that text she said she loved her sister, but needed to live a life without her in it. Also, she said 2 weeks of deep God/prayer and God answered "I am enough" and she knows divorce is a good thing.

But the kicker? she told her sister (I am still close with her sister) that she hopes one day our two kids (20 and 18) can see how courageous she's been because of the detrimental abuse she's suffered

Ok, that breaches it for me. I've NEVER abused her in any way. Ever. She even wrote in the email to her friend "he has never abused me" .... and for 7 months of counseling? never mentioned any emotional abuse. I asked her sister, my brother and my best friend ... no, they all said NO you never abused her

She has cracked. Its bi-polar, its something of a mental disorder, something, that allows her to self justify her actions. In that text to her sister today, no apology, no owning what she did, nothing.

and with that information, I can let it completely go now. She is dead, the woman I loved, replaced with this hateful, mean, selfish, vindictive person that only for a few more weeks I hope is my wife. I need this divorce done so I can move on and I'm ready. I loved that woman with all my heart and soul ... and she is gone


that she's stopped this low ... wow, just wow


----------



## Chuck71

Arkansas said:


> Today ... she sent her sister a text. Hasn't spoken to her in 9 months and in that text she said she loved her sister, but needed to live a life without her in it. Also, she said 2 weeks of deep God/prayer and God answered "I am enough" and she knows divorce is a good thing.
> *
> But the kicker? she told her sister (I am still close with her sister) that she hopes one day our two kids (20 and 18) can see how courageous she's been because of the detrimental abuse she's suffered
> *
> Ok, that breaches it for me. I've NEVER abused her in any way. Ever. She even wrote in the email to her friend "he has never abused me" .... and for 7 months of counseling? never mentioned any emotional abuse. I asked her sister, my brother and my best friend ... no, they all said NO you never abused her
> 
> She has cracked. Its bi-polar, its something of a mental disorder, something, that allows her to self justify her actions. In that text to her sister today, no apology, no owning what she did, nothing.
> 
> and with that information, I can let it completely go now. She is dead, the woman I loved, replaced with this hateful, mean, selfish, vindictive person that only for a few more weeks I hope is my wife. I need this divorce done so I can move on and I'm ready. I loved that woman with all my heart and soul ... and she is gone
> 
> 
> that she's stopped this low ... wow, just wow


Watch what she DOES, not what she SAYS.

She is referring to her childhood, not you.

Exactly the reason I sent you those threads. Same attack, different date.


----------



## Arkansas

Chuck71 said:


> Watch what she DOES, not what she SAYS.
> 
> She is referring to her childhood, not you.
> 
> Exactly the reason I sent you those threads. Same attack, different date.


she was pretty clear it was ME that abused her. I don't really care if she's channeling her deepest fears and making me the bad guy, its an attack on my core self and I have a very hard time with that because I have built my life on being a good man


I absorbed the cheating and the way she did it. I self analyzed the things she said in counseling (like communication or listening etc). I suffered through the continued cheating, the exceptionally painful recordings, the horribly damaging email she sent ... even her saying in Nov she still had a lot in her heart for the kid she cheated on. I'd STILL have worked on the marriage ...

but her lying about me abusing her? see, that is a character attack and there is one thing nobody can take from me, and that's how I am as a man. I am high character, I'm trustworthy, honest, I don't lie, I'm a good man and for her to say I abused her? that is something that tells me she's truly cracked and her mind is unhealthy

NOBODY would say that about me - ever - that's never ever who I've been



I want this divorce done ASAP, I want her out of my life. If I wrote on a piece of paper her qualities, who she is right now ..... I wouldn't want her in my life and truth is, she wouldn't want such a person in her life either.


----------



## Hoosier

"But the kicker? she told her sister (I am still close with her sister) that she hopes one day our two kids (20 and 18) can see how courageous she's been because of the detrimental abuse she's suffered"


LOL! oh so sorry but LOL! you may be amazed by this but it is all part of the cheaters handbook, when someone mentioned the rewriting of the marital history, this is the kind of crap they are talking about. I laugh because I know you want to, and will some day, but cant today..... I laugh for you, not at you, or about your situation. They will always be the victim, I remember when my xw did the exact thing! Was I pissed!! I couldnt laugh about it then, but I can now.

Keep looking forward, way to much crazy going on behind you to look back.

Hoosier


----------



## Chuck71

Arkansas said:


> she was pretty clear it was ME that abused her. I don't really care if she's channeling her deepest fears and making me the bad guy, its an attack on my core self and I have a very hard time with that because I have built my life on being a good man
> 
> 
> I absorbed the cheating and the way she did it. I self analyzed the things she said in counseling (like communication or listening etc). I suffered through the continued cheating, the exceptionally painful recordings, the horribly damaging email she sent ... even her saying in Nov she still had a lot in her heart for the kid she cheated on. I'd STILL have worked on the marriage ...
> 
> but her lying about me abusing her? see, that is a character attack and there is one thing nobody can take from me, and that's how I am as a man. I am high character, I'm trustworthy, honest, I don't lie, I'm a good man and for her to say I abused her? that is something that tells me she's truly cracked and her mind is unhealthy
> 
> NOBODY would say that about me - ever - that's never ever who I've been
> 
> 
> 
> I want this divorce done ASAP, I want her out of my life. If I wrote on a piece of paper her qualities, who she is right now ..... I wouldn't want her in my life and truth is, she wouldn't want such a person in her life either.


You are being blamed for everything in which has happened to her. You are being blamed for things

that occurred before you met her. Perfect example of re-writing history to suit her perception.


----------



## bandit.45

Arkansas I'm sorry you have had to endure all this. 

Like Cynthia said above, you did NOTHING to deserve what your WW did to you. The cold hard fact of life, that I have learned anyways, is that some people just fly off the rails. Sometimes it is due to a mental break (which I think is what happened to your WW) or sometimes a person just goes bad. People do just go bad sometimes. It is one of the mysteries of the human condition, and there is no good answer for it. So don't torture yourself trying to figure out why. There will never be a solid reason for it. Mourn the loss of the marriage and move on.


----------



## bandit.45

Arkansas did you ever see this thread? 

https://talkaboutmarriage.com/dealing-grief-loss/72911-wife-changed-after-fathers-death.html


----------



## Arkansas

bandit.45 said:


> Arkansas did you ever see this thread?
> 
> https://talkaboutmarriage.com/dealing-grief-loss/72911-wife-changed-after-fathers-death.html



I just reread it all .......... I am not alone, I see much of my story in theirs.

It doesn't make it much easier. She says she's going to sign more papers tomorrow that should set us up for an easy court date and divorce within 3-4 weeks

I was thinking today .... I invested 1/2 my life in her. 25 years. Its gone. I gave all my heart, all my trust ... that's gone. I did not want this, did not want to be here and yet, here I am. Its exceptionally hard.

my son is having a hard time at 18 with this - he said last night 50% of him is me, 50% is his mom ... if mom hates me, then mom hates 50% of him too .... that was a hard conversation to have. Why did she destroy our family? why did she leave me 1/2 way through my SR year in high school? Why doesn't she want to be around for Sr pictures, prom, etc? I don't have those answers because she doesn't want me at all either 


and I miss her guys, I do. I love who she was, an incredible woman for 20 + years. She's gone though, and even though the logical and reasonable me knows it, and knows moving on and the steps .... I'm struggling with it


I never knew divorce would be so devastating


----------



## BluesPower

Arkansas said:


> I just reread it all .......... I am not alone, I see much of my story in theirs.
> 
> It doesn't make it much easier. She says she's going to sign more papers tomorrow that should set us up for an easy court date and divorce within 3-4 weeks
> 
> I was thinking today .... I invested 1/2 my life in her. 25 years. Its gone. I gave all my heart, all my trust ... that's gone. I did not want this, did not want to be here and yet, here I am. Its exceptionally hard.
> 
> my son is having a hard time at 18 with this - he said last night 50% of him is me, 50% is his mom ... if mom hates me, then mom hates 50% of him too .... that was a hard conversation to have. Why did she destroy our family? why did she leave me 1/2 way through my SR year in high school? Why doesn't she want to be around for Sr pictures, prom, etc? I don't have those answers because she doesn't want me at all either
> 
> 
> and I miss her guys, I do. I love who she was, an incredible woman for 20 + years. She's gone though, and even though the logical and reasonable me knows it, and knows moving on and the steps .... I'm struggling with it
> 
> 
> I never knew divorce would be so devastating


Dude, I get you I do. When I realized some things about my Ex I just cried for a couple of weekends. 

I understand how you feel. I want you to understand how you will/should feel in the coming months. You will get angry, sad, hurt, angry, sad, and a whole bunch of other emotions. 

I would really like to hear you thinking some positive stuff. This stuff hurts bad it does. But your life is going to open up to you if you let it. 

If you learn to love yourself, and feel good about yourself then this pain dissipates. When you get to the other side, life will be like a bowl of sweet goodness... 

Please try to stop thinking about her every time you can... I can promise you that she is not, and has not been worth it for a long time...


----------



## attheend02

Arkansas said:


> I just reread it all .......... I am not alone, I see much of my story in theirs.
> 
> It doesn't make it much easier. She says she's going to sign more papers tomorrow that should set us up for an easy court date and divorce within 3-4 weeks
> 
> *I was thinking today .... I invested 1/2 my life in her. 25 years. Its gone. I gave all my heart, all my trust ... that's gone. I did not want this, did not want to be here and yet, here I am. Its exceptionally hard.*
> I never knew divorce would be so devastating



I felt this way at first, also. 

After a while I came to realize that I still have the experiences and memories and they are mine - my past is not gone, I just need to interpret it differently.

You are still you.


----------



## Arkansas

"I would really like to hear you thinking some positive stuff. "

I am going to finally, after 25 years of giving my wife a new vehicle, I'm going to buy myself a Tundra and a boat. For me.

I'm going to turkey hunt this spring, fish, metal detect ... I have fall hunting plans in motion. I love planning things, and after 9 months of not being able to plan past tomorrow ... i'm doing that again.

I want to go out on some dates, just to be around women. I have no desire to get involved, I just want intelligent conversation.

I have plans to change my house some. If I'm lucky, I'll get $275,000 for it .... but I have some projects I want to complete like painting, flooring etc. Those are jobs that'll keep me busy.

My job can change massively soon. I'm part of the Sprint / TMobile merger .... if there is a buy out, i have 20 years in and would get a year's severance package. I can also use my seniority to relocate and move to almost anywhere. I've always wanted to go to Alaska to be a resident, live and hunt. I might move back "home" where I grew up. 


"If you learn to love yourself,"

the hardest part of this is .... the person who've you've let know you at every depth has decided you're not worth it. That is cold, cruel, hard, mean truth that I never understood. i KNOW the steps I need to take ... but the waves of emotion still come. Example - I have vertigo sometimes and yesterday it reared its ugly head. Not puking bad, but pretty off-balance. She used to help me get through those mornings. I didn't expect it to hit me hard like that. 


these are learning threads and words and replies for people ........... i wish i'd have found and read this forum months ago


----------



## Cynthia

@Arkansas, Have you heard of the half somersault maneuver for vertigo?


----------



## BluesPower

Arkansas said:


> "If you learn to love yourself,"
> 
> the hardest part of this is .... the person who've you've let know you at every depth has decided you're not worth it. That is cold, cruel, hard, mean truth that I never understood. i KNOW the steps I need to take ... but the waves of emotion still come. Example - I have vertigo sometimes and yesterday it reared its ugly head. Not puking bad, but pretty off-balance. She used to help me get through those mornings. I didn't expect it to hit me hard like that.
> 
> these are learning threads and words and replies for people ........... i wish i'd have found and read this forum months ago


Listen, I am not trying to beat you up, but look at think like this. You know what, she is the one with the problem, not you. 

You are still thinking she is the prize and you are the loser. It is the exact opposite. YOU are the prize and she is the loser and cheater. 

There are the things that YOU have to frame in our mind the proper way.


----------



## Cynthia

It's true. She is no prize. An engaged, loving man or woman with integrity is the true prize. She will never be able to find a good man with her history. She took advantage of a young man who will not be around a year from now, let alone ten. Who would take her now? Surely not you.


----------



## Arkansas

Cynthia - yes, I've seen that / done that

"You are still thinking she is the prize and you are the loser. It is the exact opposite. YOU are the prize and she is the loser and cheater."

I'm figuring that out. I held her her so high so long, hard to not default and think of how wonderful she was 

"Who would take her now?"

oh, she's pretty at 42, beautiful smile, runners athletic body, she'll have no problem finding men .... quality men? that's another story because you're right .... if I'm dating a woman and she tells me a story like my wife did ? I'm walking away, I don't want anyone like that

few people would and the ones that do ? they're low life's too

and I know it ... I don't un-love, it took me 8 months of weekly lies and hurt draw a line and get papers worked up and tell her I'm done fighting and ready to end it

she texted some tonight - somewhat nice. Tomorrow she needs those papers signed and if she doesn't, she will get ZERO from me, NOTHING else from me until they're signed

I promise ya'll that


----------



## jlg07

....
"If you learn to love yourself,"

the hardest part of this is .... the person who've you've let know you at every depth has decided you're not worth it. That is cold, cruel, hard, mean truth that I never understood. 
I STRONGLY disagree with you -- she didn't KNOW you at every depth and decide that YOU'RE not worth it. 
SHE CAN'T see any values -- SHE doesn't have them anymore. SHE is the one who changed and HER worth is diminished, 
NOT yours. You had good years, and a lot of learning, and kids. THOSE are not 25 years wasted. You developed into the person you are, and that will serve you well after this D is completed. Do NOT make YOUR self-worth be what you think SHE thought about you.
i KNOW the steps I need to take ... but the waves of emotion still come. Example - I have vertigo sometimes and yesterday it reared its ugly head. Not puking bad, but pretty off-balance. She used to help me get through those mornings. I didn't expect it to hit me hard like that. 

My son had vertigo/migraines (yes, puking bad) and went to a thing called vestibular therapy (a type of occupational therapy -- you have to find someone who specializes in this). They gave him a number of exercises and did a number of different things to help minimize the vertigo -- it really did help. He gets it ocasionally, but not as often and nowhere near as bad as he used to have it.


----------



## Arkansas

" Do NOT make YOUR self-worth be what you think SHE thought about you."

this is true but I'm saying that's how it feels - often. I don't think I'm alone in that either and its new for me. I've never lacked in knowing I was a good person until now. 

24 years it didn't matter what the world threw at me - I knew I had this one thing to always lean on you know? that's gone and .... it really is like I've lost a giant piece of my soul. That's how it FEELS right now


what about this though - she thinks SHE is still a good person. Through all this, she would say she has ethics and morals and her heart is still a good heart. she calls what she did "temporarily compromising" .... my point is, its very easy for our minds to trick ourselves into thinking we're good when our actions say completely opposite, right ?

My residual self image isn't what I have created alone, its a reflection of what others by my actions and by what other people have affirmed to me. I think that's very important and I remind myself constantly that we can all trick ourselves into believing things that are not true. 

I'm guilty of that but I also recognize it and watch for it too.


----------



## Tilted 1

Arkansas said:


> "
> 
> My residual self image isn't what I have created alone, its a reflection of what others by my actions and by what other people have affirmed to me. I think that's very important and I remind myself constantly that we can all trick ourselves into believing things that are not true.
> .


Arkansas, do watch out for this it says co-dependent, do not allow yourself to be validated by others, because if you do it give them control over you. 

Know you are a good person with flaws like all others, but because you know you done your best and are secure with your choices is enough reason to stand tall and not feel less than who you are.


----------



## Chuck71

When you look for validation from others, you are allowing them control over you. Common term is

people pleaser. The more you rely upon yourself to make concise decisions, the more confidence you 

have in yourself. It becomes second nature to stand up against the tide when you feel you made the best

choice possible.


----------



## jlg07

Arkansas said:


> " Do NOT make YOUR self-worth be what you think SHE thought about you."
> 
> this is true but I'm saying that's how it feels - often. I don't think I'm alone in that either and its new for me. I've never lacked in knowing I was a good person until now.
> 
> 24 years it didn't matter what the world threw at me - I knew I had this one thing to always lean on you know? that's gone and .... it really is like I've lost a giant piece of my soul. That's how it FEELS right now
> 
> 
> what about this though - she thinks SHE is still a good person. Through all this, she would say she has ethics and morals and her heart is still a good heart. she calls what she did "temporarily compromising" .... my point is, its very easy for our minds to trick ourselves into thinking we're good when our actions say completely opposite, right ? BUT you know she isn't .
> She couldn't have done this if she didn't have flaws. YES WE ALL have flaws, but this is a HUGE deficit in her makeup.
> 
> My residual self image isn't what I have created alone, its a reflection of what others by my actions and by what other people have affirmed to me. I think that's very important and I remind myself constantly that we can all trick ourselves into believing things that are not true. YOU need to true to yourself. You have tried to be good, YES? YOU haven't cheated, yes? You need to look inside and realize that YOU are good. HER impression shouldn't be what "affirmed" to you your value. YOU need to affirm your value. I DO get what you are saying, but YOU need to realize the good in yourself. She is self-deluding -- make sure that you don't do that to yourself. BUT remember this -- YOU didn't cheat. She did. Why would you put stock in anything she thinks about you when she has that flaw inside?
> 
> I'm guilty of that but I also recognize it and watch for it too.


----------



## Arkansas

jlg07 i know what ya'll are saying

my son asked me today what she could do to get reconciliation ... I honestly told him there is nothing, way too much damage done. He wants his mom back. We came back from a road trip today, and he said he'd like to make cookies. Went to kitchen ..... our kitchenaid mixer was gone, she'd taken it. I don't know what to tell him other than the truth on things, that Dad and Mom both still love him and this thing is just hard to get through. He knows a lot of it ... he calls her by her first name now. His "mom" left 18 months ago  

I could have gotten beyond the cheating, but the 8 months of it continuing in the way she did it? I'll forgive her eventually (forgiveness is a process) but the hurt will last a lifetime and the damage cannot be undone. She knew what she was doing, she chose a million times to do it for herself anyway, and my feelings never mattered

update - she told me via text tonight that the papers were signed (divorce decree & divorce complaint) ....hope she's not lying


----------



## Tilted 1

Arkansas said:


> (
> 
> I could have gotten beyond the cheating, but the 8 months of it continuing in the way she did it? I'll forgive her eventually (forgiveness is a process) but the hurt will last a lifetime and the damage cannot be undone. She knew what she was doing, she chose a million times to do it for herself anyway, and my feelings never mattered


You don't have to forgive her, but forgive yourself for believing she was someone else who you thought was. It's better to not give her the space in your mind that is consuming it. Just like the blender she takes what she wants and discards or leaves what she doesn't want and that your son and you. You know she have a need for her mixer to make her new man and life cookies.


----------



## Cynthia

Arkansas said:


> We came back from a road trip today, and he said he'd like to make cookies. Went to kitchen ..... our kitchenaid mixer was gone, she'd taken it.
> 
> And...
> 
> update - she told me via text tonight that the papers were signed (divorce decree & divorce complaint) ....hope she's not lying


She has moved out. Divorce papers have been signed. Change the locks. From now on if she wants something, she'll have to ask for it. Gather up all her things that are left in the house. Put them in boxes and make arrangements to drop them off at her place. This way you don't have to be waiting on her to come get them or make a decision.


----------



## Arkansas

I have to forgive her - for myself.

I have always thought there is no way I'd cheat because why would I want my wife to suffer the pain I always knew would come to me if my wife ever cheated.

It occurred to me last night, my soon to be x wife never saw it that way because she would never have felt the incredible pain that comes with cheating had I cheated on her. Why? She didn't love me like a wife needs to love a husband. So it was easy for her to cheat, or way way easier anyway.


----------



## skerzoid

Arkansas, I have Arkansas roots, so from one Razorback to another, here is some tough love: 

You go on about how you are 50 and it sounds as if you think your life is over. * 50 is MIDDLE AGE*, not death. Did you watch the Super Bowl? How did JLo look to you? She's 50. Hm... 

*Men over 50;*
George Clooney, Denzel Washington, Brad Pitt, Robert Downey Jr., Kevin Bacon, Jimmy Smits, Jeff Bridges, Jon Bon Jovi, Liam Neeson, Lenny Kravitz, Antonio Banderas, Daniel Day-Lewis, Blair Underwood, Alan Jackson, Bruce Springsteen, Christopher Meloni, Ken Watanabe, Pierce Brosnan, Mark Harmon, Michael Jordan, Richard Gere, etc. Tell them they are over the hill. 

You sound like you are finally getting your anger up. Good. Here are some suggestions.

*1.) Do you want to win?* The way you do that is to move on and have a great life without her. Start going out and stop grieving. I don't care if you are miserable, DON'T LET HER SEE THAT!!! 

*2.)You want her to feel remorse?* Nothing does that to a woman like her seeing you moving on, being happy, and having a great social life. 

*3.) Her romance with Boy Wonder won't last.* Count on it. Then she will be back wanting forgiveness. The hard part, with your mindset, is that you will weaken and let an unremorseful traitor back in your life.

*4.) Practice the 180 technique religiously with her.* Here is a link: Healing Infidelity: The 180 for Hurt Spouses

*5.) You've spent nearly a year of hopium induced misery.* You played the pick-me dance to a humiliating extent. All that did was made you pathetic in her eyes. Teach your son to stand up for himself and not become codependent like you were. You owe that to him.

*6.) Women are drawn to men who show courage, strength, and decisive action.* *Teach that to your son.*


----------



## Arkansas

4.) Practice the 180 technique religiously with her.


I did not do those things and had I read them day one ? I'd not have done them anyway. Why? Because to me, those things are a big fricking game. If I have to play a game like that to show her my value? No, I'll not play. 

I had several people say separate and in 30 days she'd realize how much she missed you. Again .. game play to me.

Maybe that works for some people, for me it doesn't. 

Now right now? I'm doing exactly 180 ... because I've given up. But I'd never play like I've given up, just to get someone back. That's not me


My cousin said something yesterday ... I said I don't regret staying and trying, most would have left 8 months ago and she said you did it YOUR way, for YOUR peace of mind and that my choice in ways was just mine. Harder than most would do, but for me, it was what I had to do. 

She's right. I don't regret the 20+ great years, or the 9 months of trying to make my marriage work. I don't regret living someone that deeply, trusting 100% .... I loved deeply and completely and that's who I am. 


I do know who I am here ..... I did not anticipate the emotions of being abandoned, or feeling unloved or feeling forgotten or worthless. Those are all new - I've not felt them in decades. That's a battle I will win though

As soon as divorce is final, I will start dating - I think that'll help a lot, to feel wanted for a date and for conversation etc.


----------



## skerzoid

The 180 is not a game. It is not to try and get her back. It is for you to help you detach. It is to give you a stronger mindset. It has helped countless people to begin to heal. It is a form of triage.

You were the one to claim that you wanted to gain something out of this, some sort of victory. Every person that comes here has suffered through the same thing as you have, some under much worse circumstances. 

This is not to demean your pain. It is painful to read your suffering. But, the general wisdom of the place is not to be denied. 

We are not advising you on how to get her back; quite the opposite. We have seen the scenario many times. We are trying to give you support to help overcome the worst pain a person can suffer, betrayal by a loved and trusted one. Even Jesus Christ suffered this.

Good luck. I wish you only the best for you and your kids.


----------



## Arkansas

skerzoid it says things like "Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the affair partner."

to me, that just feels like game playing

"Every person that comes here has suffered through the same thing as you have, some under much worse circumstances"

I wish I'd have come to this site 9 months ago. My story is so much like so many others. 

I'll also add this - the counselor that we went to? NOT good. I don't know if that's common to get bad counseling, but our counseling was emotional based where I was told every week that if I came towards my wife in love, in softer ways, she'd respond with love and in softer ways .... that healing could happen blah blah blah. It was in many ways opposite of the 180 plan. Seriously - but that's over and done and gone now.



Thanks again for the many replies. I wonder how I'll look back at this thread in 1 year ?


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

Arkansas said:


> I'll also add this - the counselor that we went to? NOT good. I don't know if that's common to get bad counseling, but our counseling was emotional based where I was told every week that if I came towards my wife in love, in softer ways, she'd respond with love and in softer ways .... that healing could happen blah blah blah. It was in many ways opposite of the 180 plan. Seriously - but that's over and done and gone now.


I got the sense that most marriage counselling is to solve problems in an intact relationship. I'm sure it helps couples who sincerely still love and trust one another but may have problems communicating, or need help staying strong through an external issue.

Most counselling is not designed for crisis and disaster management and recovery from damage caused by one of the partners.

It's oil and filter change and tire rotation maintenance. It's not body work after a nasty collision repairs.

All the oil changes in the world cannot help if the car should be written off.

I did two stints of marriage counselling. The first psychologist that we went to soon after I discovered my ex's affair told us that there wasn't anything that could be done until my ex's affair partner was out of the picture. My ex hated the psychologist and fumed that he was clearly on my side, and didn't do anything he asked of us (including ending the affair!). I figured out that my ex's only goal in the counselling was to get me to accept an open relationship. We stopped going.

Then we floundered on our own for a few months while my ex got sneakier and sneakier about continuing the affair. I'd keep figuring it out, and finally asked for counselling again with a different psychologist. This one sat us down and told us that she could tell when one person in the relationship wanted out but didn't have the courage to say so. My ex nodded silently, and that was it.

I owe my sanity today to that second counsellor. I don't know how long I'd have continued to smoke the hopium thinking that my ex would have a magic epiphany and stop cheating and transform back into the loving spouse I thought I had.

Marriage counselling could have helped so many of us if we had sought it out when the relationship was good, to do simple maintenance work. Maintenance doesn't do any good after the engine has seized and the brakes have failed and you're careening off a cliff your spouse aimed you at.



Arkansas said:


> Thanks again for the many replies. I wonder how I'll look back at this thread in 1 year ?


You'll be in a much better place, mourning the dead marriage your wife killed, hopefully nearing the end of the divorce process, and understanding that the pain you felt at this point was a necessary part of the process. You, like many/most of us, needed to go to the ends of the earth to try to save the marriage before you ended it, because that's the type of person you are.

All our advice comes from a position of hindsight, where we wish we had been able to get out and start healing sooner. We always hope new people will be able to get out sooner than we did so they will suffer less pain than we did.

Do I wish I had kicked my ex out the night I discovered the affair? Of course I do. But that's with the benefit of hindsight. At the time, I was shocked, reeling, in crisis, not eating, not sleeping, my planned future was collapsing, and I was in very poor condition to do something that required such strength. And I'm a tenacious, dependable person of integrity, who keeps my word, finishes what I start, works hard on things I commit to, and assumes everyone else does the same. I honestly believed for many months that my ex was going through a mid-life crisis, but would eventually realize the mistake and work hard to make everything right again. I look back at things I wrote during that time, and see that I maintained that integrity and optimism through the anger and the pain, and that says a lot of good things about me. And, frankly, terrible things about my ex who took advantage of that.


----------



## Arkansas

"that my ex would have a magic epiphany and stop cheating and transform back into the loving spouse I thought I had."

I had Divorce Care today, did a bit of praying, lots of reflecting the last few days ..... and tonight I feel different

How ?

I've thought about my soon to be x-wife ..... today like I do everyday bit ... but its not the thoughts of "oh I'm so sad for the wonderful person I've lost" .... its thoughts of "I'm glad the horrible person she became is out of my life"

Sure, I'll always "miss" .... but today? Something seemed to change and the horrible person she became is now trumping the memories I had of her wonderful

I'm sure I'll relapse from time to time .... less and less. This is a big week coming, seeing the lawyer get the signed papers, knowing the time frame ahead etc. 


Hopeful Cynic - I like your "hopium" word


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## Hopeful Cynic

Arkansas said:


> Hopeful Cynic - I like your "hopium" word


Credit to Chump Lady for that one.


----------



## In Absentia

I wish my wife cheated, so i could hate her... :laugh:


----------



## MattMatt

@Arkansas your ex is your ex wife.

But she is also your son's ex mother

She doesn't love either of you.

The wife and mother she was is dead, murdered by the pod person who has replaced her.

Maybe you and your son could grieve for the woman she was.


----------



## Arkansas

"so i could hate her..."

I'm not going to hate. If I did, that would impact my soul and me


"But she is also your son's ex mother

She doesn't love either of you."


I would say she loves her son, but that she and herself is just far more important. College, running, herself, working out, her boyfriend ... those things are more important than her son and somehow in her mind, she justifies it all

Me? She managed in her mind to not even remember me as a good husband now. Not that it matters to me a whole lot anymore. 

"Maybe you and your son could grieve for the woman she was."

my son calls her mom when talking about who she used to be ... he uses her first name when talking about who she is now .... its his way of separating 




fricking sad .... and she doesn't get it at all. She's truly oblivious to the damage she's done in many ways.


----------



## In Absentia

Arkansas said:


> "so i could hate her..."
> 
> I'm not going to hate. If I did, that would impact my soul and me



I don't hate my wife and I wouldn't want to for the same reasons, but the detachment is becoming rather difficult and painful...


----------



## MattMatt

Arkansas said:


> "so i could hate her..."
> 
> I'm not going to hate. If I did, that would impact my soul and me
> 
> 
> "But she is also your son's ex mother
> 
> She doesn't love either of you."
> 
> 
> I would say she loves her son, but that she and herself is just far more important. College, running, herself, working out, her boyfriend ... those things are more important than her son and somehow in her mind, she justifies it all
> 
> Me? She managed in her mind to not even remember me as a good husband now. Not that it matters to me a whole lot anymore.
> 
> "Maybe you and your son could grieve for the woman she was."
> 
> my son calls her mom when talking about who she used to be ... he uses her first name when talking about who she is now .... its his way of separating
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fricking sad .... and she doesn't get it at all. She's truly oblivious to the damage she's done in many ways.


But this is what you said that made me think she doesn't, really, love you or her son anymore: 



> my son is having a hard time at 18 with this - he said last night 50% of him is me, 50% is his mom ... if mom hates me, then mom hates 50% of him too .... that was a hard conversation to have. Why did she destroy our family? why did she leave me 1/2 way through my SR year in high school? Why doesn't she want to be around for Sr pictures, prom, etc? I don't have those answers because she doesn't want me at all either


----------



## Arkansas

"but the detachment is becoming rather difficult and painful..."

I had to meet her to sign a tax document today ... and it was difficult, a bit more so than I expected. I was bound heart, body and soul to her for 24 years ..... this SHOULD be difficult and painful

That said ... today those few minutes that I felt super sad I pushed them away and its not going to change the rest of my day. I could be divorced as soon as 3 weeks - can't wait to be honest. 

MattMatt " But this is what you said that made me think she doesn't, really, love you or her son anymore:"

maybe she doesn't .... I'd hate to think she doesn't love her son but maybe she truly is in a place where she cannot love anyone but herself. 

I don't know - but I'll not tell either of my kids to question their mom's love ... that's not for me to say to them.


----------



## Tilted 1

Arkansas said:


> .
> Thanks again for the many replies. I wonder how I'll look back at this thread in 1 year ?


Completely differently, guaranteed!!


----------



## Cynthia

Arkansas said:


> I don't know - but I'll not tell either of my kids to question their mom's love ... that's not for me to say to them.


I agree, however, you may have to deal with them asking you about it. It is possible, maybe even probable, that they will question whether she loves them, or not and they may want to discuss that with you.


----------



## Arkansas

update

lawyer said maybe by March 14-20th time frame depending on courts/judge scheduling

A week ago today I met with her for a few minutes, nothing since. She did text her son Saturday asking for him to water her plants (yes, she left them all here for the last 4 weeks)

Today, she texted me and said hey, did you change the locks again? I replied yes, so son can have a key to go in and out and if she needed anything from the house I'd leave work and meet her in 30 minutes. No reply

When I got home, my neighbor D called and said hey, don't want to get in the middle of it all, but my wife had asked her to come over and get the plants, and then my wife would go to my neighbors house in the next few days and get them

How childish IMO. Is she 17? In the coming weeks, she's going to HAVE to meet me to get all her stuff out of my garage, to sign/quick deed the properties so she can get her 100K

This not talking then has been an issue for 24 years - and it still is !! when she does this, makes it a lot easier to not have any sad emotions

I'm maybe 14-16 days give/take from being divorced.


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## Faithful Wife

Excellent day to be divorced.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steak_and_Blowjob_Day


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## Arkansas

01-29-2020, 05:59 PM

48 days since I started this thread .............Divorce was finalized today, 9:45 am CST

wow


I texted her today and said you are free, you no longer need my help, comfort or love. I said I wish you happiness, I forgive you and will always think of the million memories we had, just wished we'd have had it for life. I told her before God I gave her my heart and soul to do with as she chose, and now I feel I've lost 1/2 my heart and soul. I told her good bye

defriended her from facebook, I will not engage in any discussions, she's no longer my responsibility or concern.

my my how life changes


----------



## arbitrator

Arkansas said:


> 01-29-2020, 05:59 PM
> 
> 48 days since I started this thread .............Divorce was finalized today, 9:45 am CST
> 
> wow
> 
> 
> I texted her today and said you are free, you no longer need my help, comfort or love. I said I wish you happiness, I forgive you and will always think of the million memories we had, just wished we'd have had it for life. I told her before God I gave her my heart and soul to do with as she chose, and now I feel I've lost 1/2 my heart and soul. I told her good bye
> 
> defriended her from facebook, I will not engage in any discussions, she's no longer my responsibility or concern.
> 
> my my how life changes


*God has truly tested you, and for the better, I might add! You may not realize it now, but in time it will come to be more than crystal-clear!

And you will be a far better man for it!*


----------



## Lila

Arkansas said:


> 01-29-2020, 05:59 PM
> 
> 48 days since I started this thread .............Divorce was finalized today, 9:45 am CST
> 
> wow
> 
> 
> I texted her today and said you are free, you no longer need my help, comfort or love. I said I wish you happiness, I forgive you and will always think of the million memories we had, just wished we'd have had it for life. I told her before God I gave her my heart and soul to do with as she chose, and now I feel I've lost 1/2 my heart and soul. I told her good bye
> 
> defriended her from facebook, I will not engage in any discussions, she's no longer my responsibility or concern.
> 
> my my how life changes


 @Arkansas, your heartfelt message to her breaks my heart but it speaks to your classiness. Your honesty and vulnerability, even in light of everything that has happened, is remarkable. 

I know it hurts right now but you will get through this. It may not be today, or tomorrow, or even next month but eventually you will.

Have you looked into joining divorce recovery groups in your area? I joined one at my church and it helped me a lot. Divorcecare has great programs nationwide and they are free. Give them a shot.


----------



## CantBelieveThis

Haven't read your entire thread, just your first post, but in case you haven't found the answer to.... 
"What I am asking ... has anyone had a marriage end like that? Where 24 years, the woman just goes crazy, has an affair with a 21 year old kid, blames everyone, rewrites our marriage past almost to justify her actions"

The answer is this "abused as a young girl".... unresolved CSA is notorious for causing severe issues into adulthood, and out character behavior, this was the issue with my W affair 7 years ago. She will struggle in many areas of her life until her CSA is fully deal with..... Good luck and stay strong, divorce wasn't your fault. 

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk


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## Chuck71

Arkansas said:


> 01-29-2020, 05:59 PM
> 
> 48 days since I started this thread .............Divorce was finalized today, 9:45 am CST
> 
> wow
> 
> 
> I texted her today and said you are free, you no longer need my help, comfort or love. I said I wish you happiness, I forgive you and will always think of the million memories we had, just wished we'd have had it for life. I told her before God I gave her my heart and soul to do with as she chose, and now I feel I've lost 1/2 my heart and soul. I told her good bye
> 
> defriended her from facebook, I will not engage in any discussions, she's no longer my responsibility or concern.
> 
> my my how life changes


I am in awe...... this is legend. You took the bull by the horns while you grieve.

Obviously you will come out of this just fine. Just remember when she comes crawling back.....

Tell her to depart your door. A Jedi you are on your path to be

Keep posting............ keep reaching for the stars


----------



## Arkansas

she waited 24 hours before responding

"One of these days I think you may realize that you are happier and healthier, but I know that doesn't feel like it could ever be true right now. I also wish you happiness ""

translation - "I'm super happy and I'm not sorry at all I broke your heart and good luck figuring it out"


I want to respond with "Don’t misunderstand me. I miss who you were but I do not miss the lying, cheating, manipulating, betraying, abandoning, abusive person that you now are and in that, I am much happier. "

But I'm not going to respond at all. Taking high road



She signed the quick deed, my house is now legally mine. In motion is a refinance, giving her her $$. I doubt I will ever see her again and if I do, I highly doubt I'll do anything but make eye contact and turn and walk away.



"God has truly tested you, and for the better," arbitrator I hope so. I responded to a groupme today and I said every door in the world is CLOSED to me right now. By that, I mean I have no direction, no path, I have no purpose ........... if God ever had a person to use, its me. Use me, right now, push me towards a door. I'm ready


"Have you looked into joining divorce recovery groups in your area? " Lila - my exwife's ex best friend told me to do Divorce Care and I promised her I would and I've been going every week. I don't break promises if I can help it. 
I KNOW what I'm supposed to do, the detaching, the unbinding, the understanding etc etc .......... doing it is a bit hard you know?

CantBelieveThis -- thing is ... not everyone abused does what she's done. Its a choice in many ways, and yet I understand too her demons. I was supposed to be the glue that helped hold her together, she chose not to want me period.

" Just remember when she comes crawling back....."


she will never come back, she has the ability cut people from her life and never understand the problem is her .... she's cut out her sister, her two best friends, all of my family, her son, me .......... why ? because none of us agree with what she did

last week her closely connected brother called me, her sister, her cousin who is helping her with a place to stay and then her mom ... all called me. Why? they love me - they want to know my side, why she's saying what she's saying .... and that matters a great deal to me that they care enough to reach out

her mom said maybe 3 weeks back she'd called and started the conversation " mom, I don't want advice"

see what I'm saying? she has this thing, she wants people to instantly forgive her and accept her regardless of her choices. No advice, no counsel, nobody telling her she's wrong ... and she's got that with her now 22 year old boyfriend. 

she will NEVER come back to me


----------



## BluesPower

Arkansas said:


> she will NEVER come back to me


And good lord aren't you lucky for this one. 

Believe me brother you are a lucky man... Whether you realize it or not...


----------



## Cynthia

@Arkansas, you sure seem to have your head on straight. You are loving, forgiving, yet you hold firm, healthy boundaries and will not be abused. You push for fairness and justice. You show strength of character. May God bless you abundantly.




Arkansas said:


> "God has truly tested you, and for the better," arbitrator I hope so. I responded to a groupme today and I said every door in the world is CLOSED to me right now. By that, I mean I have no direction, no path, I have no purpose ........... if God ever had a person to use, its me. Use me, right now, push me towards a door. I'm ready


You are exactly where you ought to be. This humble, open attitude to the work of God in your life will be an eternal blessing to you and others.


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## Affaircare

Arkansas said:


> she waited 24 hours before responding
> 
> "One of these days I think you may realize that you are happier and healthier, but I know that doesn't feel like it could ever be true right now. I also wish you happiness ""
> 
> translation - "I'm super happy and I'm not sorry at all I broke your heart and good luck figuring it out"
> 
> 
> I want to respond with "Don’t misunderstand me. I miss who you were but I do not miss the lying, cheating, manipulating, betraying, abandoning, abusive person that you now are and in that, I am much happier. "
> 
> But I'm not going to respond at all. Taking high road


 @Arkansas, I looked back at your first post, and if you look objectively at your history, you'll see that she has actually been the person she is now...for quite a while. I am not sure it's been "all her life" per se, but surely since her father died, she began walking down a path that lead to the woman she is now. That means that for years, you may have seen her as the person you now miss, but she wasn't truly that person. For quite a long time now, she has been lying, cheating, manipulating, betraying abandoning, and emotionally abusing. 

Also, note to self: in your text you wished her happiness...she responded "I also wish you happiness" just echoing your own words, so it may not have been meant the way you heard it. Trust me, a 43yo and a 20-something have very little in common. Oh they may "run" together or do this or that together, but he can't possibly get her 1990's jokes or movie quotes or even her perspective on life in the 1990's because he wasn't even born yet! And this kid will never have the chance to have children of his own (because let's be honest, she's nearing menopause). He won't earn the same kind of living you earned in your early 50's. He'll want to buy a video game and won't be able to pay bills, and she'll feel like she's always the responsible one... She has lived a lifetime and he hasn't. So this will likely be like a meteor hitting the atmosphere and take a little while but burn up once "real life" catches up with them. 



> She signed the quick deed, my house is now legally mine. In motion is a refinance, giving her her $$. I doubt I will ever see her again and if I do, I highly doubt I'll do anything but make eye contact and turn and walk away.


Sounds appropriate.



> "God has truly tested you, and for the better," arbitrator I hope so. I responded to a groupme today and I said every door in the world is CLOSED to me right now. By that, I mean I have no direction, no path, I have no purpose ........... if God ever had a person to use, its me. Use me, right now, push me towards a door. I'm ready


Maybe your purpose is to help others in your church or community who are going divorce. Maybe your purpose is to invent a new way for divorced people to communicate with each other. Maybe your purpose is to get out of your comfort zone and go do something you have felt a calling for but been afraid to do. 



> "Have you looked into joining divorce recovery groups in your area? " Lila - my exwife's ex best friend told me to do Divorce Care and I promised her I would and I've been going every week. I don't break promises if I can help it.
> I KNOW what I'm supposed to do, the detaching, the unbinding, the understanding etc etc .......... doing it is a bit hard you know?


I like to think of it as dis-entangling. When you are married to someone, the two of you are tangled in many aspects: emotionally, physically, financially, etc. And when you divorce, you have to untangle the tangles! Plus often people tangle in an unhealthy way. Envision two trees: the healthy way, each tree is able to stand on its own and thrive, but some of their roots touch and mix, and some of their branches touch and mix--the unhealthy way, the two trees lean toward each other and cannot stand alone nor thrive without stealing the other's resources, all of their roots are so tangled they are strangling each other, and all their branches would be torn off if they tried to stand on their own. Part of your job, now, is to learn how to be a HEALTHY tree, rather than an unhealthy one. 



> CantBelieveThis -- thing is ... not everyone abused does what she's done. Its a choice in many ways, and yet I understand too her demons. I was supposed to be the glue that helped hold her together, she chose not to want me period.


Very true words! I'm glad you are able to see this. Yes, people who are abused have demons and often have a warped view of what love is (i.e., sex=attention, attention=love, therefore sex=love). BUT as adults they are personally responsible for their choices, particularly the choice to face their own demons and deal with them. Good job recognizing this is on her. 

HOWEVER, note to self (speaking as one who was physically abused as a child and raped)--it is NOT your job to be the glue that holds her together. You can not do that. SHE has to face her demons, deal with them, and hold herself together. So you got about 75% there...now correct this part and you will be right on the money. 



> " Just remember when she comes crawling back....."
> 
> she will never come back, she has the ability cut people from her life and never understand the problem is her .... she's cut out her sister, her two best friends, all of my family, her son, me .......... why ? because none of us agree with what she did
> 
> last week her closely connected brother called me, her sister, her cousin who is helping her with a place to stay and then her mom ... all called me. Why? they love me - they want to know my side, why she's saying what she's saying .... and that matters a great deal to me that they care enough to reach out
> 
> her mom said maybe 3 weeks back she'd called and started the conversation " mom, I don't want advice"
> 
> see what I'm saying? she has this thing, she wants people to instantly forgive her and accept her regardless of her choices. No advice, no counsel, nobody telling her she's wrong ... and she's got that with her now 22 year old boyfriend.


You know what she really has with her 22yo boyfriend? She has a person in her life who doesn't care enough about her to challenge her when she does things that harm her. She has a person in her life who doesn't care enough to tell her the hard truths. She has a person in her life who doesn't look for her best interest, but rather encourages her to do wrong. YOU (and her family) challenge her to be a better person, wife, mother. 22yo boyfriend sees her doing ****ty things and doesn't say a word about it--maybe even encourages it. So she sunk into the sewer to be with someone who is also in the sewer so she doesn't feel so bad about her own self. 



> ...she will NEVER come back to me


 @Arkansas you know what? She may not. And that is okay. My first husband cheated on me and for a year I tried to save the marriage and he consistently wanted no part of it. He wanted to be free to have affairs! So eventually we divorced. Like you, I tried everything I could think of, including working on myself in counseling, and as I grew he disliked me even more! I was sad, to be sure, but he never came back to me. In fact, he moved to the other coast and we haven't seen each other in years, nor even spoken although we can be civil and don't wish each other ill will. He was NOT a good fit for me, not a good match for me, not good for me! But while I was with him, I didn't know that. 

She may never come back to you. That doesn't mean she will be 100% happy for the rest of her life. Nor does it mean you will be 100% unhappy for the rest of your life. You may find a purpose in life and be filled with joy! You may see a grandchild born or get a new puppy and remember that life is so much more than being married or being in a relationship. Life is beautiful and a gift. Every day is both sorrow and joy. Sometimes the sun rises and before it sets everything in your life has been turned upside down...and that is just life!


----------



## hinterdir

I am sorry. 

This is short and blunt. 

Once one person has cheated....it is OVER. Everything you did after the affair is just wasted time. Divorce her, leave and go find another life far, far away from her. She is unworthy. 
I don't know what it is you are trying with all your "help" and "work it out".

Here is the key.....even if you two stay together somehow.....you will be miserable the entire time....always with dread, always checking up on her, always wondering, always insecure if she is up to something or lying.....your life will be MISERABLE, not to mention the fact she's had sex with another man....he's had her, touched her been in her...etc., etc. Those memories of him are always in her mind forever. 

Divorce, cut the chord, this relationship is dead...she KILLED IT. 

Accept the reality, choose happiness and peace. Leave her forever. Live alone with peace and friends and hobbies or find a new FAITHFUL, LOYAL person to love.

She has killed your relationship....it is forever poisoned, forever with doubt, betrayal, mistrust, monitoring, checking up on, calling to make sure what she is doing, tracking her, checking her phone and email....blah, blah, blah. 

That is a life of misery, torment, worry, insecurity, pain, reliving the betrayal, angst. 

Reject it TODAY. 
CHOOSE A BETTER LIFE AND PEACE.


----------



## Lila

hinterdir said:


> I am sorry.
> 
> This is short and blunt.
> 
> Once one person has cheated....it is OVER. Everything you did after the affair is just wasted time. Divorce her, leave and go find another life far, far away from her. She is unworthy.
> I don't know what it is you are trying with all your "help" and "work it out".
> 
> Here is the key.....even if you two stay together somehow.....you will be miserable the entire time....always with dread, always checking up on her, always wondering, always insecure if she is up to something or lying.....your life will be MISERABLE, not to mention the fact she's had sex with another man....he's had her, touched her been in her...etc., etc. Those memories of him are always in her mind forever.
> 
> Divorce, cut the chord, this relationship is dead...she KILLED IT.
> 
> Accept the reality, choose happiness and peace. Leave her forever. Live alone with peace and friends and hobbies or find a new FAITHFUL, LOYAL person to love.
> 
> She has killed your relationship....it is forever poisoned, forever with doubt, betrayal, mistrust, monitoring, checking up on, calling to make sure what she is doing, tracking her, checking her phone and email....blah, blah, blah.
> 
> That is a life of misery, torment, worry, insecurity, pain, reliving the betrayal, angst.
> 
> Reject it TODAY.
> CHOOSE A BETTER LIFE AND PEACE.



You haven't read through the entire thread but @Arkansas divorced his cheating wife.


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## Taxman

Arkansas, it is done and over. Now forget her. Completely. Somehow somewhere her wiring got messed up. She put up a reasonable front for the length of the marriage, you were willing to overlook some red flags out of love for her, then the front was washed away. What is left is the realization that she really was not as advertised. What to do? I tell my recently betrayed/divorced hubbys to get into themselves for awhile. Go to the gym, work off the anger and frustration. Weights, cardio, and anything physical. Next, work on yourself at work. Apply for the better job. Go back to school. Go after a better life. That anger is potential energy, use it. Next, I set them up with a wardrobe consultant, get them looking good, and feeling good. If at a later date they express interest in dating, we recommend several introduction sites. Within 12-18 months I like to see a vastly improved guy. Hopefully a better outlook, we recommend ongoing IC, looking better and feeling better. This is utter bullcrap. Nobody deserves this happening to them. Nobody ever signed up for the love of their life betraying then ultimately abandoning them. It is beyond unfair. Take some time, it will get better. Been there way too many times.


----------



## Arkansas

Cynthia I wish i'd found this forum 10 months ago. That's why I continued updating and I will - so men will see what I went through, the echo's in what they are going through and more reality than maybe I had. Thank you SO MUCH for the kind words

Affaircare - "That means that for years, you may have seen her as the person you now miss"

I realize that now and its something it took a while to separate - missing who she was, vs who she IS. All that you typed others need to read - its important, VERY important IMO

hinterdir I did choose to divorce her on Feb 1st ... and on March 16th it was final


Taxman " Nobody deserves this happening to them. Nobody ever signed up for the love of their life betraying then ultimately abandoning them. It is beyond unfair. Take some time, it will get better. Been there way too many times."

True words





She texted me today. Unbelievably she said " please pay the truck payment due 23rd and credit card due the 1st" 

wow - just WOW

My last test to her said "good bye" .... does she not understand that? I didn't respond, I have no plans to respond. Part of a new realization for me, is that my value to her was tied directly to what I provided her. Remove the providing and I'm worthless to her. 

I will avoid any communication with her if at all possible. She's out of my life, a figment of my past and I am already healthier and happier without her. Writing on a piece of paper all of who she is right now and I'd not want to associate with such a person. 

I get it now. Still hard being alone, the feelings of abandonment and worthlessness still linger ... but that's part of the process.


----------



## Chuck71

She's fishing.......She doesn't want to be your W but she would love for you to continue to pay her bills.

With your focus on you and son.....grow, learn who you are now. Rid yourself of your POS tendencies, everyone

has them. Be Arkansas 2.0 and the world will stand in awe.


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## Cynthia

Arkansas said:


> She texted me today. Unbelievably she said " please pay the truck payment due 23rd and credit card due the 1st"
> 
> wow - just WOW


Is your name on the loan documents for the truck? If so, this is affecting your credit. If the truck gets repossessed, that will trash your credit rating.


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## 3Xnocharm

Why is she telling you to pay these things?? Was this ordered in your decree?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Affaircare

Arkansas said:


> She texted me today. Unbelievably she said " please pay the truck payment due 23rd and credit card due the 1st"
> 
> wow - just WOW
> 
> My last test to her said "good bye" .... does she not understand that? I didn't respond, I have no plans to respond. Part of a new realization for me, is that my value to her was tied directly to what I provided her. Remove the providing and I'm worthless to her.
> 
> I will avoid any communication with her if at all possible. She's out of my life, a figment of my past and I am already healthier and happier without her. Writing on a piece of paper all of who she is right now and I'd not want to associate with such a person.
> 
> I get it now. Still hard being alone, the feelings of abandonment and worthlessness still linger ... but that's part of the process.


 @Arkansas, 

This is pretty simple really. If your divorce decree says that you own the vehicle, then you go possess the vehicle, make the payment, sell it...whatever. The point being, you own it--you get it--THEN you would make the payments to avoid loan default. No need for a response--just go pick up your vehicle. 

If your divorce decree says that SHE owns the vehicle, then SHE possesses the vehicle, makes the payments, sells it...whatever. The point being that she would own it--she gets it--she is responsible for it financially. No need for a response at all. 

The only part that may goof you up is if the decree says she owns the vehicle but your name is on the loan, in which case an appropriate reply would be "According to our divorce decree, the vehicle is now your responsibility and you need to refinance it to remove my name. Thereafter you would be responsible for all your own payments." Period. Just factual. If she does not refinance in 30 days (or whatever the decree says) then you file contempt of court and you talk to the loan place so they are aware of what is going on and why. Sometimes (to not kill your credit) they will give you one payment to refinance or put the payment to the end of the loan, etc. in order to work with you to comply with court orders. 

Regarding the credit card--if it's in her name don't even think about it. That's her responsibility. No need to pay or respond. If it is in your name and she has access, then call your credit card company and remove her IMMEDIATELY. I'd say make the montly payment just so your credit isn't wrecked. Let her know you've removed her and that she will need to establish credit in her own name. 

Honestly, usually the divorce decree says who gets what assets and who gets what debts. If either of these is on her side of the debts, it's not your circus and not your monkeys ... UNLESS your name is on them and she hasn't/isn't cooperating in refinancing.  And just like that, reality is going to hit her between the eyes, because 22yo boytoy will not be able to pay for her car and her credit card! She'll have to "do it herself" (gasp)! Yeah, once some reality starts hitting these two, I have NO DOUBT she will suddenly realize their "love" was smoke and mirrors.


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## Cynthia

I used to work in the financial industry and collected on loans from time to time. If the divorce decree says she owns it, but your name is on the loan, you are still responsible for making the payments. Like AffairCare said, this should all be in the divorce documents, but even if she gets the truck, if your name is on the loan, the loan company is within their rights to force you to pay. This is true even if she were to wreck the truck, they could garnish your wages to pay for the balance, if you don't pay voluntarily.

Divorce decrees do not impact any loan or credit documents you signed. The company is still within their rights to collect from you.


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## Affaircare

Yep! What she said! :iagree: :iagree:

That's why, if the decree says she keeps the vehicle but the loan is in your name right now, she would need to refinance the loan in her name only. 

Long story short, the decree just outlines "how the stuff will be split 50/50." It does not automatically release you from financial liabilities AT ALL! So read your decree and follow your decree. If it says "sell the house and split equity 50/50" just do that. If it says she should refinance and she doesn't, THEN you file for contempt and the judge will enforce his/her decree...and it won't be "you are being mean to me" or any other baloney. 

In the meantime, if the loan is in your name, make payment with the communication that you expect it to be refinanced within the next 30 days--before the next payment--in accordance with the decree.


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## Arkansas

I should have specified 

Out separation of assets says I give her $100,000 that happens after she quick deeds the properties to me (she has) and the refinance has went through. So ... 10-12 days from now she'll get her money. 

The truck is hers, all debts that are hers are hers, mine are mine. Paperwork says that. I transferred her phone, her insurance, ..... she KNOWS this and yet texted me to pay her truck and CC payments. The loan on the truck is her primary.

What the separation also says is the debt on what each of us owns is ours to pay. So like if she charged $5200 for a camera and that debt is still owed and CC is her name only (this is what happened too BTW) .... and she has possession of that camera, the debt is hers as I read the papers.


The Credit Cards are in her name - I removed myself from them 6 weeks ago. My lawyer wrote it all to say basically the debt each of us owes after the separation, we each owe. She's my ex-wife, I owe her nothing and in 10-12 days she will have $100,000 cash and can pay all she wants to. 

She was very good at scheduling and planning her affair for 18 months, I'm sure she can plan and schedule how things she has are going to be paid for. She replaced my help and support financially as well as emotionally with a 22 year old kid - he can man up and give her his savings account. Or they can get jobs, or student loans or whatever. 

I don't care, not my wife, not my dependent, not my problem


So the ass in me also says this, and she knows it ......... this kid's entire world doesn't know she exists. His parents, friends, family, ..... nobody. I told her months ago I'd go to his parents and show him the letters, the notes, emails, audio files .... everything and I'd go to his church and talk to pastor and she was scared white that I'd "hurt" him like that. 

She knows I'd do it ... I think she'd rahter a few thousand dollars out of her $100,000 payday go to pay bills than her boyfriend getting hurt. But we'll see


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## Cynthia

Based on what you just posted, you are still on the loan for the truck. The loan company does not care what your divorce decree says. If she doesn't pay, they will come after you.


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## Tron

Does this: "The loan on the truck is her primary" mean that you both signed on the loan documents?

If you both signed the car loan documents you are on the hook just like her, primary/secondary makes no difference.


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## Arkansas

yeah well, she'll pay it .. its her truck, her pride and joy ... she'll find a way, no WAY will she let it be repossessed 

it might not matter to the lender, but it matters to me who pays and I'm not paying for her truck

if I do make the truck payment? I'll get the keys and drive it home and leave her without a truck  kidding


one another note - her cousin has let her stay in this condo free for 8 weeks with no payments and in the coming days they're all supposed to paint the condo .... I talked to cousin tonight and my ex has done something to really piss her off along with telling the generous cousin that she might only have 2 days to help paint because she has all these classes that needs work done etc

all about her - sound familiar? anyway, cousin said she's telling her that she has to move, that her being there isn't going to work anymore .... huge deal, I never thought cousin would kick her out. that's going to be a huge blow IMO


I'll call the lender tomorrow and maybe they have a change of life clause that'll extend an extra money of delay payments ..... yeah, I'll do that, see if they'll help. 

But I will not lift a finger to help my ex wife be more comfortable. I can't - if I start doing things for her ... it will be me enabling her to manipulate and take advantage of me all over again. I can't do that. I'd rather a credit rating hit


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## jlg07

I think you should find out if you are STILL on the loan, and if so, have your lawyer contact the exW/lawyer and tell them they have 30 days to refinance. This way YOU are off the hook, no payments, and no hit for credit ratings. You should make sure of this (or rather, have your lawyer make sure of this)!


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## Cynthia

I would think that the court could order her to payoff the truck with the money she gets from you. I've seen it where more than one check is cut. In this example: One check for the loan company and another for your ex.


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## Arkansas

she's texted me twice today "please please pay my truck payment and credit cards, I have no money" 

I'm not replying

If I reply, its opening a dialogue, I will want to say "I asked you not to cheat on me for 10 months and you didn't do what I asked" and "why isn't your boyfriend helping you?" and "you spent 18 months planning and scheming and figuring out how to have an affair behind my back, you can figure this out too" or " you REALLY didn't have a plan ?? "

The questions never end, the drams would continue.


No, I'm not responding. I personally think she's trying to control me, to keep control somehow and for some reason. Also, I know she had words with 3 of her close people and she's burned bridges hard in the last 7-10 days

She's alone with nobody and I DO feel sorry for her. But she's not roping me back into her world of chaos. I'm trying to stay very firm on this. I am leaning a bit now towards mental illness - like for the first time, maybe she really is mentally ill


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## Arkansas

oh as for the truck - and I did this for ME - I called Toyota for a 2 month financial situation delayed payment - they emailed the primary loan holder (her) ........ I will have to sign too, but she'll let me know. Or not. In that way, I helped her and she might not even know it yet


----------



## Cynthia

Arkansas said:


> oh as for the truck - and I did this for ME - I called Toyota for a 2 month financial situation delayed payment - they emailed the primary loan holder (her) ........ I will have to sign too, but she'll let me know. Or not. In that way, I helped her and she might not even know it yet


I think this is a wise decision. Have you contacted your attorney to let him know that you want this truck paid off with her check and if that isn't possible, how can you repo the truck if she doesn't make her payment? She needs to know that if she doesn't make the payment that the truck is yours. You don't have to tell her that, but your attorney can do it for you. When she got the truck in the divorce, she also got the liability for the payment. If she can't handle that, she shouldn't have asked for the truck. Maybe she thought that getting the truck also meant that you were going to pay for it. Her brain doesn't seem to work very well, so that might be what was in there, rattling around in the void.


----------



## Chuck71

Arkansas said:


> she's texted me twice today "please please pay my truck payment and credit cards, I have no money"
> 
> I'm not replying
> 
> If I reply, its opening a dialogue, I will want to say "I asked you not to cheat on me for 10 months and you didn't do what I asked" and "why isn't your boyfriend helping you?" and "you spent 18 months planning and scheming and figuring out how to have an affair behind my back, you can figure this out too" or " you REALLY didn't have a plan ?? "
> 
> The questions never end, the drams would continue.
> 
> 
> No, I'm not responding. I personally think she's trying to control me, to keep control somehow and for some reason. Also, I know she had words with 3 of her close people and she's burned bridges hard in the last 7-10 days
> 
> She's alone with nobody and I DO feel sorry for her. But she's not roping me back into her world of chaos. I'm trying to stay very firm on this. I am leaning a bit now towards mental illness - like for the first time, maybe she really is mentally ill


HELP ME.....SAVE ME......RESCUE ME! Those days are gone.

Have her EBay all those purses and cameras she bought to cover her bills.

On paper you are D. But in her mind you are still her de facto H until she can find the next guy

to pay her bills.


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## Arkansas

I never responded. 

So I found out today .... she told her brother (one of her biggest allys) she'd not seen the kid. He found out she had, and so she covered the lie by saying that the counselor we had (she has) told her to get with boyfriend and alert him that he might be in physical danger of me.

LOL !!

OK, #1 I'm 5'9" and 160# and 50 years old ... he's 5'10", 205# big kid and 22. But more importantly she told us early on that if she thought we posed a danger to herself or others she was obligated to report to police.

He knows she's lying about all of it now - and in the past few days, she's burned 3 of her closest bridge. 

The dominoes are falling on her now


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## MattMatt

She will be living in interesting times. Oh, too bad.


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## Arkansas

for those who's wondered 

my lawyer called this morning to settle up on final fees. He said the truck is of course absolutely hers to deal with but the debt in her name and on her possessions is all hers, not mine and that's the way her wrote the documents

if she didn't "claim" anything (like furniture etc) before the divorce was final and/or add it to the list we had that's on her as well as her not specifying anything about CC debt etc

he said she has nothing to support what she wants - she texted me AGAIN today ... I'm blocking her and deleting and ignoring - what I don't say can't hurt me


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

Arkansas said:


> for those who's wondered
> 
> my lawyer called this morning to settle up on final fees. He said the truck is of course absolutely hers to deal with but the debt in her name and on her possessions is all hers, not mine and that's the way her wrote the documents
> 
> if she didn't "claim" anything (like furniture etc) before the divorce was final and/or add it to the list we had that's on her as well as her not specifying anything about CC debt etc
> 
> he said she has nothing to support what she wants - she texted me AGAIN today ... I'm blocking her and deleting and ignoring - what I don't say can't hurt me


Stay strong. Remain on radio silence. Let her handle her own mess she made.


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## Arkansas

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> Stay strong. Remain on radio silence. Let her handle her own mess she made.


absolutely right

I've been on a couple of dating sites ... browsing, and I know this. A good honest ethical Christian faith 50 year old mean is NOT a common thing to find. 

I'm nothing special - but I AM honest, and real and I have good qualities. My Ex's actions made me feel absolutely worthless and unlovable and all alone in the world - a horrible thing to do to someone you've been a partner with for 24 years. Words to describe her now are words I don't want in someone I'm close with or even friends with.



I hope this thread is good for the next man in a similar situation. Read all the advice given, see where I was, where I journeyed from.


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## Betrayedone

Dude....You are absolutely going to PROSPER in your life going forward. Your positive light shines so brightly it illuminates your arrival well in advance of your presence.....


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## Cynthia

Arkansas said:


> the debt in her name and on her possessions is all hers, not mine and that's the way her wrote the documents


Just as the debt in your name is yours. If your name is on the loan, it is in your name.

I have been a debt collector. If your name is on the loan, they can collect from you. If you were able to call the company and make changes, your name is on the loan.


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## Affaircare

@Arkansas,

Let me see if I can explain this in a way that makes sense to you. 

The courts decree how things are divided. Usually divorcing couples disagree on just who exactly gets what. They disagree on the bank accounts, the credit card accounts, the house, the cars, the debt, the kids...everything! So the court "outlines" by decree who gets what so that it's 50/50, even, fair, equitable...whatever. 

But the court does not actually PUT IT INTO EFFECT. The truck is a good example. I'm guessing you had a vehicle you typically drove, and she had a vehicle she typically drove. The court decreed that to split things fairly, you each get the vehicle you've been driving. You also each get the debt that goes with the vehicle. But just because they said "HOW" to divide doesn't mean they actually did the dividing!!

When you bought "your" vehicle, most likely the loan had two signers: you and her. When you got the loan for "her" vehicle you've told us it had two signers: her as primary and you as secondary. That means from the point of view of the LOAN PEOPLE you are one of the people responsible for the loan. If she doesn't pay, they will come after you next, and eventually they'll repossess it...but it WILL harm and affect YOUR credit. 

Your divorce order is binding on both you and your ex-spouse. *The divorce order is not binding on a lender. *The loan company for your ex's truck is not obligated to release you from liability for the account even though the judge ordered your ex-spouse to release you from it. A lender does not have any incentive to release your liability for the truck loan.

So what we are telling you is not "Hey dude, you have to pay her truck payment" but rather "Warning Will Robinson. The court decree doesn't get you off the hook for that loan. Talk to them. Do what you gotta do to get your name off of there!" (Likewise, get HER name off of your vehicle loan.) Usually this involves talking to the loan originator and refinancing in YOUR name only for your vehicle, and she will need to refinance in HER name only for her vehicle. 

If she refuses to refinance or pay, your options will be to pay the loan in full (you can make a request to the judge to order her to pay it out of her proceeds from the house), or you can ask the judge for possession of the truck so YOU can sell it to pay it off. Both of these options usually come around after she has refused for several months, so it's probably wisest/easiest/best to be a little cooperative with her and just talk to her about HER refinancing in her name only, and YOU refinancing in your name only. 

Make sense?


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## Chuck71

If you are refi'ing the house to give her $$$, stipulate she must refi the truck in her name.

Or make it contingent that refi'ing the truck will come off the top of you doing the house.

If she balks....stall a bit. She will crack.


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## Jung_admirer

CantBelieveThis said:


> .... unresolved CSA is notorious for causing severe issues into adulthood, and out character behavior, this was the issue with my W affair 7 years ago. She will struggle in many areas of her life until her CSA is fully dealt with..... Good luck and stay strong, divorce wasn't your fault.


Perhaps the most unfair thing in the world is that we, as adults, must do the hard work to heal from the assaults leveled upon us. We can't hold our partners accountable for their victimization, but we must hold them accountable for the self-care required to heal. It's truly difficult to countenance releasing a partner when they refuse to help themselves after severe trauma. I've walked this path, and I offer support and encouragement in this difficult time. Kindest Regards-


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## Arkansas

Affaircare ---- Her truck is all she has. She's not going to let the payments not get paid. Am I willing to bet on that? Yes, I am.

That truck is payment and her CC payments and to be honest, anything chaotic in her life is less of a concern every day for me. I'm moving on. I said "good bye" and I meant it.


I got mad at her last night. My daughter came home from college (closed campus obviously) .... and I saw her on the couch crying and asked what was wrong. She said Mom isn't here, it feels so weird, I don't like it here anymore  

This is my normal, has been for months .... me and my son, I didn't think it would be such a shock for her and I didn't prepare for it. 

my ex wife's choices have hurt so many people so deeply .......... and that makes me mad. I'm a man, I'll figure it out but my 20 year old daughter didn't deserve to have a slam of sad emotions


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## Lostinthought61

how much does your daughter know ? has she even spoken to her mother.

Clearly she failed not only you but her children.....cheaters never see the bigger impact not until it is too late.


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## Kamstel2

Make sure your daughter knows everything!!!


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## Arkansas

Daughter doesn't want to know - she knows something inappropriate happened

I told her last night if she wants to know any truths, ask me and I'll give them to her. How much she knows I don't know. I'll tell her when she's ready, if she's ever ready. 

I'm renting a storage unit tonight - $90 for 2 months. Moving all her stuff and giving her the key. This way, she has access and can't say I'm keeping anything from her. That's worth the $90 to free my garage


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## BluesPower

Arkansas said:


> Daughter doesn't want to know - she knows something inappropriate happened
> 
> I told her last night if she wants to know any truths, ask me and I'll give them to her. How much she knows I don't know. I'll tell her when she's ready, if she's ever ready.
> 
> I'm renting a storage unit tonight - $90 for 2 months. Moving all her stuff and giving her the key. This way, she has access and can't say I'm keeping anything from her. That's worth the $90 to free my garage


Are you telling us that you did not tell your kids that their mother had an affair and left you. 

There is no way that you did that, is there. 

Brother look, you need to let the rest of the world grow up, your wife and your kids. 

They deserve the truth, when they find out the truth, the will hate you for not telling them. Do you get that? 

They are young adults, they deserve the truth. Still protecting your lying, cheating, wife.


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## 3Xnocharm

Agree, Blues!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Chuck71

Arkansas said:


> Daughter doesn't want to know - she knows something inappropriate happened
> 
> I told her last night if she wants to know any truths, ask me and I'll give them to her. How much she knows I don't know. I'll tell her when she's ready, if she's ever ready.
> 
> I'm renting a storage unit tonight - $90 for 2 months. Moving all her stuff and giving her the key. This way, she has access and can't say I'm keeping anything from her. That's worth the $90 to free my garage


Smart move.......I'd ask for the $90 back. When....she melts down.

It's coming.........be patient.

It will be shocking "in a way" but entertaining in others


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## Arkansas

"Are you telling us that you did not tell your kids that their mother had an affair and left yo"

My son knew before I knew - he carries guilt from it and he hates her. 

My daughter knows there was an affair of some type - she was in college and I don't think she has any idea the cruel every day things my wife did every week. 

Look ... I'm not in the game of trying to destroy someone. My exwife did horrible things, still doing horrible things IMO and it'll catch up with her and in many ways it already has. When my daughter wants to know, she'll ask. Me, or someone else .... in her time. 

I don't want to control her, manipulate her or anything like that. I have always told my kids the truth on things, but there is also a difference in discussing things and saying truths and then forcing things they are not ready to hear.

No .... I'm not going to pour the truths on her if she's not ready. In that, I think ya'll are wrong for me and for my daughter. 


good news - no texts today !!


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## BluesPower

Arkansas said:


> "Are you telling us that you did not tell your kids that their mother had an affair and left yo"
> 
> My son knew before I knew - he carries guilt from it and he hates her.
> 
> My daughter knows there was an affair of some type - she was in college and I don't think she has any idea the cruel every day things my wife did every week.
> 
> Look ... I'm not in the game of trying to destroy someone. My exwife did horrible things, still doing horrible things IMO and it'll catch up with her and in many ways it already has. When my daughter wants to know, she'll ask. Me, or someone else .... in her time.
> 
> I don't want to control her, manipulate her or anything like that. I have always told my kids the truth on things, but there is also a difference in discussing things and saying truths and then forcing things they are not ready to hear.
> 
> No .... I'm not going to pour the truths on her if she's not ready. In that, I think ya'll are wrong for me and for my daughter.
> 
> good news - no texts today !!


Well isn't that so altruistic of you... 

You run you life like you want to, that is your right. 

Prediction: Your daughter will be angry at you when she finds out the truth. She will get over it, so maybe you are right. 

I wish you well.


----------



## Tilted 1

Chuck71 said:


> Or make it contingent that refi'ing the truck will come off the top of you doing the house.
> .


Do it this way, regardless, get with your lawyer and you little hit if you even get one you called Toyota already. But pay the truck of from her share. 

You an oak good to see a strong backbone.


----------



## Tilted 1

Arkansas said:


> ".
> 
> Look ... I'm not in the game of trying to destroy someone. My exwife did horrible things, still doing horrible things IMO and it'll catch up with her and in many ways it already has. When my daughter wants to know, she'll ask. Me, or someone else .... in her time.
> 
> good news - no texts today !!


But it's not destroying, but setting the record straight from this point forward. There's a difference and doing this for your kids is a must. This is a example to them

"just how an adult deal with problems and don't push it under the rug" 

This is a life lesson for their benefit, not because you see it as guilt. And when they are older they will see you for the great father that you are and strong even enough for them. 

Show them how to be adults. It's never too early in life this is what we do as parents, and why we make the hard choices and not let them play in the street.


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## BluesPower

Tilted 1 said:


> But it's not destroying, but setting the record straight from this point forward. There's a difference and doing this for your kids is a must. This is a example to them
> 
> "just how an adult deal with problems and don't push it under the rug"
> 
> This is a life lesson for their benefit, not because you see it as guilt. And when they are older they will see you for the great father that you are and strong even enough for them.
> 
> Show them how to be adults. It's never too early in life this is what we do as parents, and why we make the hard choices and not let them play in the street.


I think we are wasting our time with this. He does not see it this way. 

And maybe that works for him. For me, whether people, kids, partners, whoever likes it or not, I have always felt honesty was the best policy. 

Further, to his credit, even though I don't agree with the way that he feels, at least he had the balls to get rid of his cheating wife. 

I think some of his thinking might change once he really processes all of this and all that his wife did to him and his family. 

I know I sure became a smarter, albeit harder person.


----------



## Blondilocks

Tilted 1 said:


> Do it this way, regardless, get with your lawyer and you little hit if you even get one you called Toyota already. But pay the truck of from her share.
> 
> You an oak good to see a strong backbone.


LOL. Would you please do me a favor and start reviewing your posts before hitting submit? I'm going cross-eyed trying to figure it out.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Arkansas said:


> Daughter doesn't want to know - she knows something inappropriate happened
> 
> *I told her last night if she wants to know any truths, ask me and I'll give them to her.* How much she knows I don't know. I'll tell her when she's ready, if she's ever ready.
> 
> I'm renting a storage unit tonight - $90 for 2 months. Moving all her stuff and giving her the key. This way, she has access and can't say I'm keeping anything from her. That's worth the $90 to free my garage





BluesPower said:


> Well isn't that so altruistic of you...
> 
> You run you life like you want to, that is your right.
> 
> Prediction: Your daughter will be angry at you when she finds out the truth. She will get over it, so maybe you are right.
> 
> I wish you well.


 @BluesPower
His daughter knows what happened and he offered to tell her the whole scoop if she wants to know. He's handling this the right way. 
What do you expect him to do, pin her down and make her listen? Yeah ... Nah.


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## Tilted 1

blondilocks said:


> lol. Would you please do me a favor and start reviewing your posts before hitting submit? I'm going cross-eyed trying to figure it out.


😊


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## Buffer

Brother, you have not waivered in your resolve, well done. As your ex-wife has been hit with the bills can her young toy boy pay for them? As it is no longer your problem, if her car gets repossessed or she gets a bad credit mark, how is it problem? She has re written the marriage, so she can deal with her consequences, from that she has sewn. 
Be there for the children, date who and when you want.
Time to nuke the boy toys life.
Buffer


----------



## Arkansas

Rubixed Cubed "What do you expect him to do, pin her down and make her listen? Yeah ... Nah."

That's exactly it. I'm not going to sit her down and tell her all the horrible things her mom did until she wants to know. She has been clear to me she doesn't want to talk about it. I'm confident I'm doing it the right way. My daughter KNOWS I tell the truth, she's had 20 years of it. When she wants it all, she will ask and it will be in HER time, not mine. 


My refi might go through by end of next week - in 2 weeks time, my ex will have $100,000 for her to pay all her back bills, credit cards, get a new apartment (he cousin is telling her to leave the free condo she's in, don't know exactly all that went down there but it has to do with lying about her boyfriend) ..... she will have money and that'll make her temporarily happy. My son still hate her, nothing I can say is changing his view of her and truthfully, I cannot argue with him. She's a low down, cruel, selfish, prideful, manipulative woman who uses anyone and everyone to get what she needs. I don't want those kinds of people in my life - my son doesn't either.


----------



## BluesPower

Rubix Cubed said:


> @BluesPower
> His daughter knows what happened and he offered to tell her the whole scoop if she wants to know. He's handling this the right way.
> What do you expect him to do, pin her down and make her listen? Yeah ... Nah.


I already wished him well and agreed with his right to do it his way. Not sure what you are getting out. 

She knows something happened is not really the same as knowing. I have some experience with this. 

My kids lived my hell with me, and yet when I spoke to them about what happened they had a totally different and skewed view of what when on. I had to set them straight and I was not trying to "protect" anyone.

However, Kids, see things with a kids mind in a lot of situations, even young adults and teenagers.


----------



## Arkansas

BluesPower - my daughter didn't live it - she has no idea the daily things my ex did. When she wants to know, I'll share/explain. My ex destroyed, that's what she did and my daughter will see it in her own time, I don't have to accelerate it.


I keep coming back to this ..... because someday, maybe someone will read this whole thing and get something from it. Maybe it'll be important to someone.

I virtually met someone on a dating site. We exchanged messages for days and then talked on the phone for hours. Same age as me, married a bit longer, kids are just a bit older ... different reasons for divorce than me but going through it all is similar. I met her for lunch yesterday for the first time. As I know her so far, super easy to talk to, intelligent, modest, alone ..... she can be an awesome friend if nothing else. 

This cheating/divorce thing..... damaged me. I've been warned about "healing" and "time" ..... I can see why those warnings are given.

It really hit home yesterday because understand I've not "dated' or even looked really at another woman in 25 years. All the weirdness of "do I like her" "am I attracted to her" ... I noticed her dimples, the way she brushed her hair to the side. Do I give her a hug? What would it be like to hold her hand? I can't imagine a kiss but ...... as I'm thinking of all this later, it occurred to me .... my ex-wife went through ALL OF THAT except she did it while we were married. She went through every little step of the nuances of forging a relationship with someone WHILE MARRIED TO ME. She'd do this on the side, come home, kiss me, sleep with me ..... and how she juggled that I will never ever understand. Its psycho, its not normal 

It fuels another kind of hatred and I'm having a hard time controlling it. On top of that is this new feeling that if I could possibly be lucky enough to have a relationship with someone, it will end with them just not loving me or them using me and tossing me in the trash. That has been implanted in me deeply for 18 months with what my exwife did.

Its not fair. I hate it. Its a byproduct of someone who used me and manipulated me in the cruelest ways. I think I know how to escape it - this new person (or anyone after) is not my ex. I know who I am, I'm one of the good guys. I have faith that God is putting me somewhere for some reason (this is a new thing for me). I know my past doesn't define my future. 

I get all that. What I'm saying is those feelings rear their ugly head - and I have found a new level of hate for my exwife for doing all of this. Maybe that's normal? 

I have 0.00% want for my exwife and in fact, I don't want to ever talk to or see her again. She is a pathetic, laying piece of trash human being and I want nothing to do with her. I don't WANT to hate her .... boy its sure hard not to


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## BluesPower

Yes I came back to it. But I left it alone after you commented about how you felt about your choices...

But I was replying to someone else who commented on it.

Let me be completely clear about this. 

YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO WHAT EVER YOU WANT TO DO. NO PROBLEM. 

Some of us may disagree with some things that you have done and some my be completely on your page. 

From my perspective, you got out of infidelity as quickly as you could and I applaud you for that. 

Carry on...


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## BluesPower

Arkansas said:


> I keep coming back to this ..... because someday, maybe someone will read this whole thing and get something from it. Maybe it'll be important to someone.
> 
> I virtually met someone on a dating site. We exchanged messages for days and then talked on the phone for hours. Same age as me, married a bit longer, kids are just a bit older ... different reasons for divorce than me but going through it all is similar. I met her for lunch yesterday for the first time. As I know her so far, super easy to talk to, intelligent, modest, alone ..... she can be an awesome friend if nothing else.
> 
> This cheating/divorce thing..... damaged me. I've been warned about "healing" and "time" ..... I can see why those warnings are given.
> 
> It really hit home yesterday because understand I've not "dated' or even looked really at another woman in 25 years. All the weirdness of "do I like her" "am I attracted to her" ... I noticed her dimples, the way she brushed her hair to the side. Do I give her a hug? What would it be like to hold her hand? I can't imagine a kiss but ...... as I'm thinking of all this later, it occurred to me .... my ex-wife went through ALL OF THAT except she did it while we were married. She went through every little step of the nuances of forging a relationship with someone WHILE MARRIED TO ME. She'd do this on the side, come home, kiss me, sleep with me ..... and how she juggled that I will never ever understand. Its psycho, its not normal
> 
> It fuels another kind of hatred and I'm having a hard time controlling it. On top of that is this new feeling that if I could possibly be lucky enough to have a relationship with someone, it will end with them just not loving me or them using me and tossing me in the trash. That has been implanted in me deeply for 18 months with what my exwife did.
> 
> Its not fair. I hate it. Its a byproduct of someone who used me and manipulated me in the cruelest ways. I think I know how to escape it - this new person (or anyone after) is not my ex. I know who I am, I'm one of the good guys. I have faith that God is putting me somewhere for some reason (this is a new thing for me). I know my past doesn't define my future.
> 
> I get all that. What I'm saying is those feelings rear their ugly head - and I have found a new level of hate for my exwife for doing all of this. Maybe that's normal?
> 
> I have 0.00% want for my exwife and in fact, I don't want to ever talk to or see her again. She is a pathetic, laying piece of trash human being and I want nothing to do with her. I don't WANT to hate her .... boy its sure hard not to


On a completely different subject... Everything, and I mean every single feeling, that you wrote about is normal. Completely normal. Almost everyone in your situation has felt them. 

You are normal. And, sorry to say, some of these feelings dissipate over time and some of them stay with you. 

I just encourage you to be patient... Also, gentle as a lamb and clever as a fox...


----------



## red oak

At least keep an eye out and make sure your XW doesn’t manipulate your daughter in to becoming her tool.


----------



## Arkansas

so yesterday .... my daughter last night was driving to stay with her mom and then on to her apartment in her college town and she opened up a path for me to talk and I did. She tried to say things like "well, you and mom were never a match" or " mom spent 20 years making everyone else happy and just wanted to be happy for herself" and I was like NO. That's all lies - and shared very hard truths with her for about 15-20 minutes until she said said stop, I don't want to hear anymore. So later, she sent me a couple of texts .... communication is still there so, those are good things. She did say she doesn't want to come "home" ever again. My ex ruined that too  but truth? I'd not stay in this house either if I had a good quick way out.

also ... and I'm sharing all this for people who might be going through similar ....


I'm telling ya'll this ... as almost a journal for others? I wish I'd have found a thread like this 11 months ago myself.


I had a date last night with a beautiful woman ... we have talked a lot lately, had a lunch, and tonight dinner and it was amazing. I went 57 days without a meaningful hug or kiss. The damage done by narcissists like my ex is unfair, cruel .... but it doesn't define us. 

Today, I'm happy and that's good enough for me


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## Blondilocks

If you won't self-isolate during this crisis, will you please not play kissy-face?


----------



## Arkansas

how a months change thing

for any man reading this - I see something now I didn't see before


every little thing that happens in a new relationship ..... do you lean in for a kiss? what if you want to hold a hand? that text message, was it from that person? the nuances of navigating forging a new relationship .... my ex-wife did that ALL, every minute of the day, WHILE WE WERE MARRIED

so if you're reading this- if your wife cheated, understand it was 100% deliberate, intentional, planned and schemed. I know that now, and I didn't fully understand it when I was going through it. Only by going out with someone did it hit me the depths of what a new relationship goes through - and a cheater did that all while MARRIED

it takes an ugly person to do that - cruel, mean, selfish, self centered .... and my ex became that


hopefully there is one last thing that has to be done to fulfill the divorce decree and then she'll move from my life forever .... there for a while it was everyday she was asking for money, pay her bills etc. I ignored her for weeks, never caving to what demanded. I think she hates me now - and I do not care if she does. 

God doesn't want divorce, but I want everyone to know that if you allow ... God CAN do great things to salvage you during and after a divorce if you'll let Him. I'm very blessed today ..... this entire thing seems like a lifetime ago

my advice now to anyone finding out their wife cheated at the depths mine did ? divorce her - fast. Use her feelings of failing the marriage against her to get the best divorce deal you can. Don't give her ANYTHING more than you legally have to.


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## BluesPower

Arkansas said:


> how a months change thing
> 
> for any man reading this - I see something now I didn't see before
> 
> every little thing that happens in a new relationship ..... do you lean in for a kiss? what if you want to hold a hand? that text message, was it from that person? the nuances of navigating forging a new relationship .... my ex-wife did that ALL, every minute of the day, WHILE WE WERE MARRIED
> 
> so if you're reading this- if your wife cheated, understand it was 100% deliberate, intentional, planned and schemed. I know that now, and I didn't fully understand it when I was going through it. Only by going out with someone did it hit me the depths of what a new relationship goes through - and a cheater did that all while MARRIED
> 
> it takes an ugly person to do that - cruel, mean, selfish, self centered .... and my ex became that
> 
> hopefully there is one last thing that has to be done to fulfill the divorce decree and then she'll move from my life forever .... there for a while it was everyday she was asking for money, pay her bills etc. I ignored her for weeks, never caving to what demanded. I think she hates me now - and I do not care if she does.
> 
> God doesn't want divorce, but I want everyone to know that if you allow ... God CAN do great things to salvage you during and after a divorce if you'll let Him. I'm very blessed today ..... this entire thing seems like a lifetime ago
> 
> my advice now to anyone finding out their wife cheated at the depths mine did ? divorce her - fast. Use her feelings of failing the marriage against her to get the best divorce deal you can. Don't give her ANYTHING more than you legally have to.


Wow, I am glad that you realized this, even though to does you very little good now.

Oh, how I wished we could have made, which is impossible, you understand all those months ago. 

See, back then we were doing our best to some how prevent you from feeling the pain that you went on to feel. 

I always want to help people go through that in a better, hopefully less painful way. But I guess it is one of those things that you have to live through to truly understand. 

I hope that you are feeling better. Please take your time with new relationships... You did not really pick that well with your last one...


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## SunCMars

Arkansas said:


> Rubixed Cubed "What do you expect him to do, pin her down and make her listen? Yeah ... Nah."
> 
> That's exactly it. I'm not going to sit her down and tell her all the horrible things her mom did until she wants to know. She has been clear to me she doesn't want to talk about it. I'm confident I'm doing it the right way. My daughter KNOWS I tell the truth, she's had 20 years of it. When she wants it all, she will ask and it will be in HER time, not mine.
> 
> 
> 
> My refi might go through by end of next week - in 2 weeks time, my ex will have $100,000 for her to pay all her back bills, credit cards, get a new apartment (he cousin is telling her to leave the free condo she's in, don't know exactly all that went down there but it has to do with lying about her boyfriend) ..... she will have money and that'll make her temporarily happy. My son still hate her, nothing I can say is changing his view of her and truthfully, I cannot argue with him. She's a low down, cruel, selfish, prideful, manipulative woman who uses anyone and everyone to get what she needs. I don't want those kinds of people in my life - my son doesn't either.


Uh..

What your son, your daughter's brother..... knows, she knows 'now' for sure.

Siblings talk, and they share the truth.

Don't assume for a minute that the daughter knows, little. 

She does not want to talk about it because it is damn painful to hear this crap about her mother.

The God awful truth hurts worse, those whose love is/was strongest.


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## She'sStillGotIt

Arkansas said:


> ...so if you're reading this- if your wife cheated, understand it was 100% deliberate, intentional, planned and schemed. I know that now, and I didn't fully understand it when I was going through it. Only by going out with someone did it hit me the depths of what a new relationship goes through - and a cheater did that all while MARRIED
> 
> it takes an ugly person to do that - cruel, mean, selfish, self centered .... and my ex became that


But....but....it was the *"fog"* that made her do it! And limerence!! And "NRE" (new relationship energy). Don't you _see_? That damnable fog/limerence/NRE came swirling in through the window and she couldn't think straight and just kept making bad decisions. None of it was her fault! 🤪 🤪 🤪

Had you made her go to a therapist, they would have pulled some nonsense excuse out of the air for why she cheated on you. The excuses are ENDLESS from therapists. For a cheater, going to a therapist = Get Out of Jail Free card.🥴 What a damned clown show most of them are running.

And then, there's just the cold hard* TRUTH* without all the delusion - which you have written so accurately and succinctly, OP.

Cheaters do what they do because they WANT to and because they enjoy it, because they get excitement from it, for many it's for the sexual variety, and they do it because they think they deserve to have just a little bit _more_ in life than the average Joe. Most of them have an extreme sense of self-entitlement which is no surprise to anyone.

And you're right - it takes an ugly and VERY SELFISH person to continually make willful *choice after choice after choice *to deceive and betray you. Luckily, you were wise enough to see that instead of deluding yourself into thinking the choices she was making were due to some other factor causing her to make them.

I'm glad to see your motto is "leave a cheater, gain a life." Good on you.


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## Arkansas

" For a cheater, going to a therapist = Get Out of Jail Free card. "

I think now there is truth in that. A counselor/therapist can maybe help realizations about yourself but only a damn good one will tell you what you don't want to hear. The one we had enabled my ex in my opinion. Not that it mattered, ya'll knew from the first page my marriage was going to fail, there is no way, NO WAY, to recover from the damages done like was done to me.

I want to share things like this for others to see. 

Here is the last email I received from the ex - i think she might finally be out of my life. What she's doing here is projecting her own lying, cheating, manipulating and dishonor onto me. She doesn't need to miss her son, in 10 weeks she has texted him twice. Once was using his birth certificate as a means to manipulate him into going to lunch with her, the other was last night and I'm certain it was a hint to please not forget mothers day. Her choices and decisions has led her exactly here - where she wants to be. Now, she doesn't like that she doesn't have a house, a home, family, friends, money to spend etc. She used to have all that and now she doesn't and she has to miss it all. Me? No, she doesn't miss me. There are two ways this goes in a situation like this .... she realizes and accepts how terrible she is, or she blames me. I've seen this pattern all my life in how people react to situations, and I've been very careful not to fall into the the trap of always blaming others. Sometimes, its me, and when it is, I need to own it. 

Anyway ,,,, this last email is very encouraging. She hates me now - and that's something I was told needed to happen. When she hates me ... then she'll leave me alone, stop bothering me and go away. Note - her brother and I are still close and that's unusual but he and I almost drowned together one time. In many ways he's close to me than my brother is, and I'm more of a brother to him than his brother and more of an uncle to his kids too. She's got to hate that, but I'm not throwing away my brother because of her, blood or not



_" These were the verbal terms that I agreed to of which you unfortunately for me but fortunately for you emotionally manipulated me into withholding from the contract ( she's referring to the texting that we did to hash out who got what etc ... and listed them) I took you at your word that you would honor your verbal commitment to me and you say that you will not. How very disappointing and telling about your honor as a man

I took care of the (20 acres) filing. I don’t want any of those things - I don’t want anything at all from you. You can give (my things to my brother) . That plus the $7,000 that you loaned him that you should have used to honor your promise to me plus the $1,700 you so graciously spent - not for my benefit - but for the convenience of relieving you of getting my stuff out of YOUR HOUSE- about covers the credit card debt that you promised to pay. The only thing I will miss is my son."_


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## 3Xnocharm

Oooh... she told you... 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Kamstel2

And hopefully that is the last you will ever hear from her!!


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## Kamstel2

any further word from her?


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## Kamstel2

How are you doing Arkansas?


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## Arkansas

The ex has not said another word to me - my girlfriend says she'll come back at some point but me? I believe she's way too prideful. I think her life has imploded, I think she's miserable and lonely and in her crazy mind a martyr in some ways 

What I don't understand is her totally ignoring her son whom she was so close to for so long. The lies she told devastated him and how he sees her and women in general. She literally swore to him once "I will never cheat on your Dad" .... and she was cheating on me when she said it. 

So he's 18, young man .... and a couple of nights ago we had a pretty deep talk. He doesn't understand why I would want to date someone right now. When you're cheated on the way I was, it chips away, making you feel unlovable, unwanted and that you'll be alone the rest of your life. Coupled with this now deep rooted fear that everyone is a liar ..... and those scars are the worst thing anyone can do to another person IMO. 

I simply told him that when you're in it - when you have someone you trust and you know they trust you, its a beautiful thing. God made us to be coupled, I believe that. Satan works to destroy it, I believe that too. Yes, my son is right, sometimes you get burned really bad but that's not a reflection of how I was. In 24 years of marriage I don't think I ever lied. I never betrayed, broke trust etc. Nobody can take that away from me, I know I did it right and everyone else does too. That's something to hand my hat on. 


So for anyone thinking of cheating - don't. You'll destroy your family and impact them all in irreversible ways you cannot imagine. 

If you were cheated on, leave them behind and move on with your life knowing it wasn't you, it was them. Don't work so very hard to save what cannot be saved. They don't want it saved or they'd not have done what they did.


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## Arkansas

I don't regret anything really looking back all these months.

My son left on Monday for the Coast Guard ... he's not seen in person or spoke in person to his mom since the day she left. They met with her mom and had breakfast. I don't think he'll ever like her and that's a massive payment for what she chose. Our daughter talks to her some, I don't know in what length. I know the ex has a small little apartment she rents. Last I heard she was dating the young kid and his parents hate it.

I gave the family dog to her on Monday - told her yes after she asked that she could take her. i figure with me spending time doing my thing, the dog will get more attention and truth is, the ex probably needs the old dog.

I'm bitter still from time to time. The bad side of me hopes she fails school, work, gets cancer and everyone ostracizes her for her actions she's made. The Christian side of me prays she'll get it together some day. I'm actually non-nonchalant about her - if she's good, bad, happy, sad, rich or poor ... I don't care. The woman I knew and loved died, and the person in that body now I don't like nor do I want any relationship with at all. But I'm close to selling my house, my kids are now gone ... this was the time that a man and woman really start their lives together and she bombed ours.

I have a great girlfriend. She's fantastic person, cute, smart, her heart/soul everyone loves. I don't know where it'll go, taking it week by week, going with the flow. 


So notes - 

#1 again, if you're considering an affair, don't. Its selfish, manipulating, mean and terrible and everyone will probably hate you for it - and justly so - and it damages your sould.

#2 if your spouse cheated - plan your out. It aint going to work, period. You know 5-10% of what they did - if you knew 100% it'd crush you completely. Plan your out, execute it, find something in it that you can feel like you didn't get 100% screwed. me ? that was the settlement and I did win there 

#3 after it's all done .... live. Get back to living, embrace the changes you're having to go through.


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## Divinely Favored

Arkansas said:


> "There are A LOT of broken people out there."
> 
> Arkansas...my cheating sister from SE Okla was a runner also...had a 2.5 yr affair on my brother with coworker from north of Alma on the east side of Ft. Smith. After OM broke up with her she got a tat covering her leg from the knee to the top of her azz. Nice momento to remember your OM fond memory from. BiL should have divorced her azz.
> 
> I wished she had been killed in a car wreck than to become an adultress. My kids know what their aunt did and it has caused a wall between me and her. We rarely talk now, used to be close. She quit coming around because my wife can read her like a book. My wife knew before any one else did.
> 
> Your ex is a hypocrite. Praying on things! Really! Professing to be Christian, if divorced due to her adultry, she can never remarry or the Bible says she will be committing adultry with new man. It is clear that "Whoever practices such things(ie. Adultry) shall not inherit the Kingdom of God"
> So many people do not take marriage serious. God is dead serious about marriage. He cut off Israel due to their adultry and that opened salvation to the Gentiles. Many people will have hell to pay for the way they lived.


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## Chuck71

Arkansas...... really like the growth you have accomplished. Her affair is on her 110%. If she was so "mis-er-able" then

she could have been a respectable spouse and come to you saying she wants a D. She wanted to test drive a new

toy while keeping you in the dark......just in case she scares him of. She threw away a quarter century. For an itch...

She is in store for a tormented life. She lost you and her son.....for......??? A kid only in it for gift wrapped sex.

Keep working on yourself.....check in with son. One day he will want to talk about what she did.

And he will be the one to nail a dagger into her heart.....for what she did. May be a year, two, five, seven.....

but it will happen.


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## Arkansas

its been a year when I started really figuring my exit plan

the 23rd of Dec would have been my 25th wedding anniversary

I've spent both of the holidays for every year the past 25 years with my in-laws .... I didn't this year

it was very odd, uncomfortable ... and though i did spend it with people who cared it was just very different

I have an amazing woman I date, didn't understand just how little appreciation and thankfulness I had in my marriage. its a funny thing looking back.

I think the damage done to my kids is what makes me most bitter now .... my son doesn't trust a woman any farther than he can spit on them, my daughter doesn't believe in relationships/love and has made bad choices lately and part of that is because her mom destroyed the family unit. 

don't have affairs - don't cheat


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## Evinrude58

Yes, your first post, anyone could see your marriage was doomed, and it would pretty much h be guaranteed that when you get over the loss of your rotten selfish cheater, you’d find a new woman and you’d wonder why you spent 24 years living with a person who clearly didn’t love you. 

It’s such a shame that when you’re hurting, you can’t see reality...
The reality is your ex wife is a cheater who divorced her husband and will most likely be a bicycle that guys take for a ride for a few weeks and drop like a bad habit once they see how she really is. You however, will have lots to choose from. But few good women. Mainly a whole bunch of women just like your ex.


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## In Absentia

Yes, the damage done to the children is the heaviest cross to bear.


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## Blondilocks

Evinrude58 said:


> But few good women. Mainly a whole bunch of women just like your ex.


I don't know what to say. Really. I'm so sorry you've been so ill treated that you have come to have this jaundiced view of women.

Aren't you the guy who went ahead with your second marriage only because her parents had plunked down a large amount of money for the wedding even though you knew it wouldn't last? Well, it did last - for a whole six months. And, yet, you're the put upon one.


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## Arkansas

Blondilocks said:


> I don't know what to say. Really. I'm so sorry you've been so ill treated that you have come to have this jaundiced view of women.


my 19 year old son see's women like that

understand, the woman that was his model for what he was supposed to look for - kind, honest, trustworthy, put family first, moral, ethical etc .... she was all those things then changed into a damned demon

and my son was taken advantage of, used and manipulated too by her - that kind of hurt, the deep level of broken trust and faith ... it stays with a person

the only person in the world I trusted completely - 100% without doubt - was the very one who showed me never to do that again. that's a barrier when it comes to forging new relationships and although I "trust" my new lady, I know always and forever isn't real. 100% trust and faith isn't real. 100% I'll always be there for you, isn't real

Its for today - tomorrow is tomorrow and we'll see what happens when it comes

so in that light, I see what Evinrude58 is saying - maybe you have never been crossed that deeply before ?


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## Evinrude58

Blondilocks said:


> I don't know what to say. Really. I'm so sorry you've been so ill treated that you have come to have this jaundiced view of women.
> 
> Aren't you the guy who went ahead with your second marriage only because her parents had plunked down a large amount of money for the wedding even though you knew it wouldn't last? Well, it did last - for a whole six months. And, yet, you're the put upon one.


I don’t see my personal business as having relevance to this guy’s thread. My second wife wasn’t a cheater. 
It appears you enjoy making low blows , btw, for no apparent reason.
I don’t believe my opinion of women is any worse than your opinion of men. My statement stands based on my experiences.

A good person is hard to find. I wholeheartedly stand by what I typed.


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## Chuck71

I think I quoted this, not sure. Arkansas........ you came, you learned, you dealt with it with grace and dignity. Can't say that about your XW.

Often parents do not think about their child(ren)'s welfare when they go through a D. I have posted here eight years and I have always said,

the kid(s) often get thrown in the middle by one or even both spouses. They are so wrapped up in their "new" life....kids are on backburner.

This scars kids....and some never get past it. How many times have you read a sad D thread where the dad wasn't around or the mom wasn't?

Those scars are took into their relationships. And their kids...most likely...will follow in the footsteps. There's three generations already.

My parents fought a lot and yes, I was put in the middle and was manipulated. I don't know how in the he!! I made it through with very little scars.

Mom was a master caregiver but not good at teaching. Pop was pathetic at caregiving but a master teacher. Luckily...that was balance.

Rarely does that happen. 

Arkansas....you have every right to be guarded. You gave all and left everything on the field. At least...now you "know." Strict boundaries. Enforced.

Do you know older people who were in your kids situation somewhere in their past; who made it through? Maybe they could talk to them...


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## Blondilocks

Evinrude58 said:


> I don’t see my personal business as having relevance to this guy’s thread. My second wife wasn’t a cheater.
> It appears you enjoy making low blows , btw, for no apparent reason.
> I don’t believe my opinion of women is any worse than your opinion of men. My statement stands based on my experiences.
> 
> A good person is hard to find. I wholeheartedly stand by what I typed.


How is the truth a low blow? Your personal experience colors your view of people and based on one person cheating you have determined that the OP will have a hard time finding a new love. He isn't you.

I don't have a low opinion of men. Just some men.


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## Evinrude58

“You however, will have lots to choose from.” My words.

OP, I don’t think you’ll have a hard time finding a new love. Quite the opposite. 
And it won’t be hard to find a better one. But it’s not easy to find a really good woman with character and loyalty.


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## Arkansas

Blondilocks said:


> Your personal experience colors your view of people


what else do we have to go on but our personal experiences ?



see, I thought several things for 24 years .... I thought love was for a lifetime. I thought promises and vows mattered. I thought exposing yourself by giving 100% faith and trust in another was a big key in a relationship.

I was proven wrong. I have 100% faith in my wife - I mean never a single doubt. Ever. If the woman I knew could do what she did ..... every woman is capable (and every man too)

there is a problem with that - because as humans we're suppose to love and trust, its integral to how we love and how we are loved back. when that element is missing, there are going to be problems. I am aware of that at least. 


*Evinrude58 is correct, its easy to find a woman ( I assume even easier for women to find men) .... but finding a GENUINE person? that's tough - really tough, especially at 50 years old. *


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## Evinrude58

I hate that you have lost faith in people. I have as well to an extent. I’ll never see a relationship with a woman in the in way u did before my wife of 14 years did what she did. After she started the cheating, I literally didn’t recognize her. I know exactly how you feel. 

make no mistake, however, you do have an OPPORTUNITY here to find a GOOD woman. They exist. And you will love her that much more when you find her.

You will see things differently when you get over the pain. Sadly, it will take a couple of years, and while you’re in it, that length of time will seem like forever. But it isn’t.
Hang in there. You’ll make it.


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## Arkansas

Evinrude58 I have found a good woman. She appears honest and kind, generous and loving and I didn't realize all that my ex wasn't giving until I was in a relationship where the other was actually giving !

but i don't think i can love the same anymore - maybe expecting too is asking too much


so again I ask anyone who's thinking of an affair - do not do it

Satan loves to use lust and desire and the feeling of doing the wrong thing in a way that destroys many lives - not just one


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## Evinrude58

Arkansas said:


> Evinrude58 I have found a good woman. She appears honest and kind, generous and loving and I didn't realize all that my ex wasn't giving until I was in a relationship where the other was actually giving !
> 
> but i don't think i can love the same anymore - maybe expecting too is asking too much
> 
> 
> so again I ask anyone who's thinking of an affair - do not do it
> 
> Satan loves to use lust and desire and the feeling of doing the wrong thing in a way that destroys many lives - not just one


lots of women seem that way and can hide their true selves for even a couple of years. Better be careful. You are in a far more vulnerable state than you know. You really should hold off for a while. Are you divorced yet?

none of my business, just sayin’.....
Something to think about.

I got out of a relationship that was very hurtful and got married on a rebound too quickly and foolishly and regretted it.


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## Arkansas

I was divorced March 16th 2019 - and I have no plans to marry anytime soon. To do that would mean I fully trust a woman .... I'm unable to do that right now

But I can be in a committed relationship, love and be loved and see where it leads


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## Arkansas

crazy to think that on May 2nd, it'll have been 2 full years since I found out my ex was cheating

it was 2 days ago I went to the courthouse and got divorced filed

the ex never came back, I'm pretty much moved in with my new laDy, wonderful person

I close on selling my house tomorrow- when its all said and done, I got about 80% of the assests

my son hates her - calls her a *****, doesn't talk with her
my daughter ... something happened there, because she was home for 2 months and didn't go see her mom but twice


if you cheat - you WILL destroy many lives. The cascade effect is great .... like, my Dad doesn't like my former brother in law because of what his sister did. Think like that cheaters never figure. My son see's women as whores who use and manipulate, my daughter has no faith in marriage and she sees vows and promises as fake.

don't cheat - don't do it ............. the damage is terrible


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## Evinrude58

Good and accurate update. Need to edit that post though. Lol
I think you meant “lady”


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## Arkansas

edited LOL


its amazing looking back at what I went through, where I was, ..... I almost lost myself I think


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## Chuck71

Arkansas said:


> crazy to think that on May 2nd, it'll have been 2 full years since I found out my ex was cheating
> 
> it was 2 days ago I went to the courthouse and got divorced filed
> 
> the ex never came back, I'm pretty much moved in with my new laDy, wonderful person
> 
> I close on selling my house tomorrow- when its all said and done, I got about 80% of the assests
> 
> my son hates her - calls her a ***, doesn't talk with her
> my daughter ... something happened there, because she was home for 2 months and didn't go see her mom but twice
> 
> 
> if you cheat - you WILL destroy many lives. The cascade effect is great .... like, my Dad doesn't like my former brother in law because of what his sister did. Think like that cheaters never figure. My son see's women as whores who use and manipulate, my daughter has no faith in marriage and she sees vows and promises as fake.
> 
> don't cheat - don't do it ............. the damage is terrible


The vows don't change............ just the people. Choose wisely. 

Nearly 90 years ago, my mom's parents met, 16 and 13. Great Depression.... they M. Can't tell me they

weren't "in heat." But somehow.... it lasted, till the day he died. She held their picture close to her as she died,

10 years after him. Saying she will now be with him. Never even looked at another man.

Our forefathers showed the way..... but many listen?

Reminds me of the "Conditioners" in Chapter 3 of "Abolition of Man."

The Conditioners...... well we see them all the time, in social media.

Be aware


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## Al_Bundy

Hopefully the state you are in has at-fault divorce still and I definitely hope it doesn't have lifetime alimony. You are being "zeroed out" as the term goes. Basically you're finding out everything you've worked for your whole life has been a lie and you start to question everything. The main thing is for you continue counseling on your own, especially if thoughts of suicide creep in. I'm not being over dramatic here, your situation is where a lot guys decide to check out. My other advice is the first two books by Rollo Tomassi, "The Ration Male" and "Preventive Medicine". They aren't fluffy cloud smoke up your ass books, but they will help explain with the benefit of hindsight, how and even where things went wrong. You are going to be facing a lot of uncomfortable truths about life, women and men. Face them head on now so you can start rebuilding your life.

Best of luck.


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## Arkansas

*Al_Bundy*

Never suicide thoughts nor have I really wanted to physically hurt anyone else

But its been 2 years May 2nd since I found out .... its been a bit over a year since divorce, probably 18 months since I really decided I had to divorce her and got my plan togehter.

I hurt every day still, some days a little, some days a lot.

I have dreams - this is one I had a few weeks back

_I walked to a place to find the ex-wife. I think I was going there to see if she was happy or miserable. It was a wide open place, I was dropped in the middle and I went towards kinda like a town area and to a house/apartment. When I got there, I went through one room of the apartment and it was empty, but my sister were there in the second room next to a window. We said a couple of words and then through the window I saw the ex-wife running along the road that was in front of the apartment. She was laughing and smiling and waving at the people along the road. She came into the first room and was talking to my sister about going out that night to a couples dinner. I was really sad about that, and it hurt me greatly. How could she still be friends with my ex after all the pain and hurt and damage? Who would still be friends with someone like that AND going out to dinner with my family with her adulterous boyfriend on her side?

I left. I walked a long way back to where I guess I was staying. It was snowing and cold and I remember it like a giant plain of salt and I just felt depleted and exhausted. When I came to where I was going, it was a two story place, almost like a hotel. Dark, and there was a walkway with rooms on both sides. I paused, cautious I guess but a couple of people went through and I relaxed. My room was there, on the right and when I went to it … the door was cracked. I swung it open and the room was in disarray like it had been ransacked and I moved back out of the room and that’s when a large dark thing jumped me from the hallway. It knocked me down, and it had a long knife and it put the knife to my chest and pushed it through. I didn’t fight it either, I just accepted it and then …. I woke, breathing heavy and I didn’t sleep hardly any the rest of the night._


I've never not fought anything in my life. I vividly remember just accepting death, I was ok with it. 


Cheaters - don't damage your loved ones with adultery., Don't. Please.


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## Chuck71

How your XW is doing or think how she is doing has ZERO concern to me, nor should it you.

What concerns me is how YOU are doing..... Talk to us....... What's bothering you?

How are the kids doing?


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## Arkansas

can't control dreams can we ?


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## MattMatt

@Arkansas I think that dream was your subconscious going over what had happened with your ex? The large, dark thing with the knife was another aspect of your wife. Because she was a large, dark thing and she did plunge a knife in your chest.


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## Arkansas

oh who the heck knows about dreams - tied to events sure, but I don't read a terrible amount into them

I wish they'd go away - that much is a fact !

I talked to my sis yesterday ..... its been 2 years, and the damage done and the ripples from my ex wife's adultery has touched everyone we know in some way

don't do it - the Bible says don't be adulterous for a reason ya'll


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## Kamstel2

Just checking in on you. 
How are you and the kids doing?

how is ex doing? I suspect that her life has fallen apart but she is still to prideful to admit that her life is anything less than fantastic.


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## 352525

Arkansas said:


> long story
> 
> I married at 25 years old an 18 year old, wonderful person in 1995. Home schooled, as a young girl sexually abused. We had a daughter in 1999, lost a child in 2000 and had a son in 2001. She and I never did fight, and we also never really communicated well. I've always known that. No warning signs of an issue, she never told me her feelings much. Fast forward to 2013 and in that spring her Dad was diagnosed with kidney cancer. He came to live with us, and died on Christmas day of that year. Tough 5 months. She spiraled into a massive depression that nobody could help with. She grew distant, would not seek counseling. In 2015 she wanted to start college. In 2017, she wanted this group of friends, all guys, to study with and I agreed. She had become a runner, had male friends, it was an easy ok. I trusted her 100%.
> 
> Spring 2018 she graduated community college, moving on to a 4 year degree. This one kid from that group hung around. We'd helped several women by bringing them into our home who had marital issues etc, and she said this kid was like our own. In fact, she had at the time, my 19 year old daughter dating this 21 year old. As 2018 progressed, I noticed only like twice a linger in a hug of a touch, she easily lied those away. I never looked for things, didn't really suspect. Just didn't like the kid hanging around 3 nights a week.
> 
> Spring 2019, she went for a traditional yearly camping trip with all women friends/family. The day before she went to prep at a farm they camp on, at a bluff her and I spent many a magical night on. She slipped that evening and said "we" when talking about the day .. and it was the Kid with her. I was not happy. When the weekend ended I said enough, no more him around, he's hurting our marriage and wants to get in your pants. Deny, lies, ya'll know that.
> 
> For the next 6 weeks I was ever more suspicious. I almost caught them one day at a lake she ran out all the time. On May 2, 2019, I was home early for some spontaneous surprise passion and caught an incoming text that said how much he loved her. It took 3 hours of asking before she finally admitted an emotional/sexual affair. I was stunned. I thought maybe at the most kissed him.
> 
> So starts my real story. We started counseling, and I had planned a weekend getaway to reconnect. On that getaway she reached out to him. Later I'd find out every day she did. I found out she was meeting him in the mornings, recording things on a zip drive, letters and notes. The audio files I found through bugging her vehicle were terrible to hear. A man shouldn't hear his wife speaking to someone else that way.
> 
> I'd asked her what could I do and she said help her through summer school. I had asked her to not see him or communicate ever again and she broke that promise the next day I later found but me? I worked hard, from 5:30 to 9:00 pm at night with cooking breakfast, driving her to classes, working out with her. She had an internship and because of a GPS tracking device I'd attached to her truck, I found out she was still meeting him. The truck I bought her then because our car was something they'd done things in and I couldn't stand it. I bought her a $1000 iphone on my July birthday. Counseling was hard, because I was told things I'd been doing wrong all the years. I am a person of action, my acts define my love. She never wanted that, I never knew that my caring and loving wasn't ever enough.
> 
> In Sept after summer school finished, we went to FL for a 5 day trip and it was fantastic. When we got back, I had a means to view her texting and found an email she'd sent a friend. Devastating, the most amazing words to describe this 21 year old and their magical, once in a lifetime love. It crushed me hard
> 
> But I didn't leave. I stayed, I tried. Credit to her, she did wane from seeing/talking to him as far as I know, and things got better.
> 
> Nov 1st I sat her down and though she'd once asked me to forgive her (not serious because she went back to him the next day) I forgave her for it all. I needed it. I'd dropped to 145 pounds, I was unhealthy as a person and my soul was. That night I offered her a chance to come clean on anything, and she said when I was out of town with my son, she'd have him over spending the night at my house. So ... for 7 months she held that huge lie, lying about it constantly. I forgive her.
> 
> I went on a trip and came back Nov 10 and told her and the counselor I was done with weekly counseling for 2 reasons. #1, I was told every week I needed to change, we never talked about her. #2, I didn't want a life where I could talk to my wife 1 day a week between 2 and 3 pm. I drew a heart and said this is mine, and you want it 100% and she said yes. I drew a box in it and said this is your heart and that's the adultery in the middle and she said yes. I said I cannot live with that.
> 
> We spoke of it again twice in Dec, both time her saying she couldn't give me 100% of her heart. During this time, she entered 1 on 1 abuse counseling and I encouraged it.
> 
> 3 weeks ago, I saw text messaging from the kid, and she said she has no idea how his phone was unlocked. I found out she was "following" him on a social media page and he her, and they could see each others pics. She said she has no idea how that happened.
> 
> The final nail, as she told me she didn't if she wanted to stay married. I had legal documents written up that would have given her about 15% of our worth (which isn't much, but she's had $2500 a month to finish school)
> 
> She was mad about it, said she felt like she was worthless, cheap and not valued. She came back and said she wanted 50% of everything and I said no way. We talked about where she was, where I am, and she says she doesn't want a divorce, can't take my offer, I can't take hers .... today I moved into a spare bedroom. There is silence here.
> 
> Our counselor said, in 18 years, she'd never seen a man as heartbroken as I was. I know who I was as a husband, and she and I both contributed to a marriage that while good, wasn't great, but her choice to affair was all hers and that destroyed our marriage.
> 
> 
> I see no resolution. She has no fight for me at all. While accepting her choices are wrong, she'd say but she wants to hold it in her heart as beautiful and wonderful. I cannot live with that.
> 
> 
> What I am asking ... has anyone had a marriage end like that? Where 24 years, the woman just goes crazy, has an affair with a 21 year old kid, blames everyone, rewrites our marriage past almost to justify her actions, has a husband who tries for 8 hard months everything he can to stay ............ I fought SO hard. I have forgiven her. She is at a place and will not change, and I can't live with how she has become as much as I still love her.
> 
> Why did she do it all? I'll never know, she sure didn't have enough love for me not to, no consideration, no respect. More baffling, she had me fighting hard for her for the most part, when it should have been her fighting for me.
> 
> 
> I'll say this - 100% trust and faith is supposed to be given but when its violated? wow ... there is nothing like it, because it shatters the soul. She was a very religious young woman, always the highest morals and ethics. Kind, generous, someone everyone admired. After her Dad died she changed, her sister and brother both used the same words - broken. I admit I was unable to reach her and I stopped trying. My faults were never knowing how to comfort her, and her not telling me I wasn't, I just thought I was doing enough.
> 
> I have grown as a person in these 8 months, I am capable of massive changes for her. But its over now, and I'm still crushed


All I can say about counseling is that it was ridiculous for me. But that’s me. My opinion after 65 years and 41years of marriage? If she cant honor her vows punch out and leave her to her future.


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## 352525

uhtred said:


> I think it can be made simple: She cheated on you and left you. That means that she never was the wonderful person you thought she was. Its a terrible blow, but the reality is that the person you loved never really existed in the first place.
> 
> Find someone worthy of you.


Exactly right.


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## Arkansas

I can't decide which is worse ... all these many months later .... the destruction of so many relationships and connections .... or the destruction I've felt myself

The logical/reasonable part of me says the former because so many people lost in this whole thing. Greater good and all, right?

Another part of me says its my loss that is worse. I never thought I'd lose myself, my self worth, my sense of having a meaning and purpose and value. I have. Its an odd experience to have, being the person I always was and now, the person I am. Of course then, I question that maybe I wasn't who I thought I was, which lead to all of this ..... its a fascinating thing I don't like anymore to be honest


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## uwe.blab

@Arkansas are you still with the girlfriend? Hope the kids are doing alright too.


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## Arkansas

uwe.blab said:


> @Arkansas are you still with the girlfriend? Hope the kids are doing alright too.


I am - it works well but I gotta be honest .... I don't think I'm capable of marriage again. My son is doing well, my daughter is not ..... I have no idea what's going on with the ex, don't care really too

Oddly enough the kid-boyfriend, I've seen him at the gym I go to maybe 4-5 times the last 3 months .... he doesn't make eye contact, I laugh at him. 

Its amazing how my life has been the last 2 years .... and not in the best way and how my ideas/views have been changed/altered


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## jonty30

Arkansas said:


> I am - it works well but I gotta be honest .... I don't think I'm capable of marriage again. My son is doing well, my daughter is not ..... I have no idea what's going on with the ex, don't care really too
> 
> Oddly enough the kid-boyfriend, I've seen him at the gym I go to maybe 4-5 times the last 3 months .... he doesn't make eye contact, I laugh at him.
> 
> Its amazing how my life has been the last 2 years .... and not in the best way and how my ideas/views have been changed/altered


Having your eyes opened is good for you, even when it hurts


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## Arkansas

jonty30 said:


> Having your eyes opened is good for you, even when it hurts


I don't disagree, its all the damage done through it all for myself and others that's kind of a forever thing born from her adultery/actions

That doesn't go away - ever ...... the cost shouldn't have been so high


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