# How severe is what my wife did?



## tlsntlsn (Dec 30, 2021)

Hello - 

New to this forum so hoping for a friendly audience and advice. 
I've been married for 12+ years to my wife and it's been as normal and as stable as it gets, 2 kids and the whole deal. 

Last week, I tried to call her in the late afternoon and she was unusually unavailable, my messages on WhatsApp got only partial and delayed responses. It can happen when she's at work but it rarely gets busy there in the late afternoons. 

Then she calls me back at around 7pm. I asked her if she'd just left work and she said yes (not sure why but it felt insincere). Later, when she arrived home she started a whole drama about how she's so busy and that she never has time for herself between work and kids and life. 

Later that night I opened our joint banking app and saw that she actually left work before 5pm (parking lot transaction) and two other transactions at clothing stores at her favorite mall between 6-7pm. 

I was pretty shocked because it was the first time that I could recall in all of our long history that I caught her in such a lie + such a show. I had to double check the transactions were indeed physical transactions and not something she could have done online from her office as I refused to believe she could lie about her whereabouts. 

I confronted with her the next day and pretty quickly she admitted that she lied and that she's very sorry and ashamed. She explained that she felt very bad about herself that she went to hang out in the mall while others had to take care of the kids. She said it was a stupid thing to do and apologized. I asked her if I had ever made her feel wrong about other times she took time for herself, she said no and that I don't deserve lying to. I asked her if she was alone (found it difficult to believe she would do all this cover up for a couple of hours of shopping at the mall) and she said yes (I believe her and the transaction do prove that). 

I have been extremely puzzled and confused since and I am full with mixed emotions and still a bit shocked by her ability to lie to me. I lost my empathy to her and been a different person/husband to her this whole week. I am really curious about people's opinion here - am I overreacting here? 

On a scale of 1 to 5 where 1 is a little white lie and 5 is red handed cheating .How severe is what my wife did?

Please help me with this sanity check...


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

I think it’s a small lie, if she’s been a devoted mother and wife, it can get to you sometimes and the guilt of small things like shopping for yourself, by yourself can give you a huge guilt trip. Sometimes that kind of woman can bust out by just spending a bit extra on a haircut and indulging at a cafe all by herself and chuckling like a devil that she’s not going to share with any kids or husband! …and then she soon feels really terrible. You know her, if you’ve never denied her these things and she tends to put herself last, it’s probably a very small indulgence and she’s probably feeling awful inside. I hope your wife is ok, and it’s probably nothing to do with you. You know the kind of woman I’m talking about, as opposed to the woman who will do much worse, but the signs were there all along.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

You need to give your wife a little breathing room. All people need some autonomy in their life to act as independent beings. What you should do is give her some money, tell her you will watch the kids, and let her out the cage to have some fresh air.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

What she did was ok, but lying isn't. Was she going to show you what she bought at some point? 
However she has appologised and said she shouldn't have done it. Ask her to never lie again. I can understand that you are upset, I would be too as I am an honest person.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

wow, i have NO CLUE what my wife is buying at stores unless she walks into the room wearing it and says HOW DO YOU LIKE THIS?

Maybe you are micromanaging her a little too much?
unless there is a reason, such as you guys are almost bankrupt, lay off tracking all the expenses. 

she probably was stressed out and wanted to have a little fun shopping, and you turned it all into a YUGE guilt trip for her.


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## tlsntlsn (Dec 30, 2021)

Thanks all for your comments! Getting these responses from you really helps.

Diana - what she bought never brought up. I didn't ask her and she didn't bring it up either. Do you think this is important? 

I believe it's just everyday clothes and only rarely she shows me what she buys.

Diana


Diana7 said:


> What she did was ok, but lying isn't. Was she going to show you what she bought at some point?
> However she has appologised and said she shouldn't have done it. Ask her to never lie again. I can understand that you are upset, I would be too as I am an honest person.


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## tlsntlsn (Dec 30, 2021)

Talker67 said:


> wow, i have NO CLUE what my wife is buying at stores unless she walks into the room wearing it and says HOW DO YOU LIKE THIS?
> 
> Maybe you are micromanaging her a little too much?
> unless there is a reason, such as you guys are almost bankrupt, lay off tracking all the expenses.
> ...


Thanks for your comment. I don't think I'm micromanaging her and she never said anything like that. I am checking out my banking app several times a week to check on investments and verify there are no fradualant transactions (happened in the past). I didn't log in to check up on her and was definitely pretty shocked to see she lied about get whereabouts. 

She's definitely on guilt trip now and this is exactly why I'm puzzeled about my reaction. She did apologized on one hand but on the other hand I was pretty offended and disappointed how easily she was able to lie to me about her whereabouts and also put a whole show after that as if she had a really busy day at the office and she never has time for herself...


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

tlsntlsn said:


> Thanks for your comment. I don't think I'm micromanaging her and she never said anything like that. I am checking out my banking app several times a week to check on investments and verify there are no fradualant transactions (happened in the past). I didn't log in to check up on her and was definitely pretty shocked to see she lied about get whereabouts.
> 
> She's definitely on guilt trip now and this is exactly why I'm puzzeled about my reaction. She did apologized on one hand but on the other hand I was pretty offended and disappointed how easily she was able to lie to me about her whereabouts and also put a whole show after that as if she had a really busy day at the office and she never has time for herself...


Unless the purchase was for some lacy panties that she did NOT intend to share with you....give her some space! Please!


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## AGoodFlogging (Dec 19, 2020)

So she is clearly feeling under pressure and needing a break from things with a bit of retail therapy. No issue with that.

The problem appears to be that she felt like the only way she could do that was to lie to you about her whereabouts to get that time.

There are clearly some issues with communication and expectations in your marriage. It is important to address this breach of trust now before it sets a precedent for something more damaging. I think you need to also express your concern that she felt that lying to you was easier than asking you honestly for some time away from kids and family responsibilities. Why has she felt that was the best course of action? Does she feel that you would not have agreed to the request?


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## tlsntlsn (Dec 30, 2021)

AGoodFlogging said:


> So she is clearly feeling under pressure and needing a break from things with a bit of retail therapy. No issue with that.
> 
> The problem appears to be that she felt like the only way she could do that was to lie to you about her whereabouts to get that time.
> 
> There are clearly some issues with communication and expectations in your marriage. It is important to address this breach of trust now before it sets a precedent for something more damaging. I think you need to also express your concern that she felt that lying to you was easier than asking you honestly for some time away from kids and family responsibilities. Why has she felt that was the best course of action? Does she feel that you would not have agreed to the request?


I asked her similar questions and she said it's about issues with herself. She knows I would have never said anything to prevent hey from going to the mall. She's a strong woman and I am far from being anywhere near any bossy husband. I also asked whether I've ever made her feel she can't take time for herself and she said no and lying was just a no reason stupid thing to do. Probably more to do with her own perception than mine.

To me that's the must painful act. The minute she felt uncomfortable about something she chose to lie to me.


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## tlsntlsn (Dec 30, 2021)

Talker67 said:


> Unless the purchase was for some lacy panties that she did NOT intend to share with you....give her some space! Please!


Thanks for your perspective. I am trying to let this one slide but it's been difficult...


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Luckylucky said:


> I think it’s a small lie, if she’s been a devoted mother and wife, it can get to you sometimes and the guilt of small things like shopping for yourself, by yourself can give you a huge guilt trip. Sometimes that kind of woman can bust out by just spending a bit extra on a haircut and indulging at a cafe all by herself and chuckling like a devil that she’s not going to share with any kids or husband! …and then she soon feels really terrible. You know her, if you’ve never denied her these things and she tends to put herself last, it’s probably a very small indulgence and she’s probably feeling awful inside. I hope your wife is ok, and it’s probably nothing to do with you. You know the kind of woman I’m talking about, as opposed to the woman who will do much worse, but the signs were there all along.


You're assuming she puts herself last?

It doesn't sound like it.


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## AGoodFlogging (Dec 19, 2020)

Well, if you've had that conversation and made it clear that her actions have damaged your trust then I think that is it until and unless she does it again.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

I'd give her some space. Time for a boys night out and a few fishing trips.

Set up with the same persons she used to watch the kids and take some time for yourself.

Plan your own time to get some space. The level of deceit your W is showing could very well be this is the first time you caught her in multiple lies, not the first time she's lied.

The regret she's showing is that she got caught in multiple lies, and gave you the minimum amount of information, trickling out truths she felt necessary only enough to appease you.

Don't fall for it.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

AGoodFlogging said:


> Well, if you've had that conversation and made it clear that her actions have damaged your trust then I think that is it until and unless she does it again.


Yes, by all means enable her to do it again by showing you'll suck it up.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Eh, I'll admit I've done this.....said I left work late when i went to the mall.

Why? It's stupid but sometimes I want to be left alone and don't want to explain myself to anyone. I'm not doing anything beyond shopping (mostly window).

I wouldn't make a big deal out of it. I don't know why you felt the need to make an issue out of it, but it likely would've been fine if you'd just said that next time there was no need to lie about going to the mall and then dropped it.

Assuming she doesn't have a pattern of lying about her whereabouts.


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## AGoodFlogging (Dec 19, 2020)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Yes, by all means enable her to do it again by showing you'll suck it up.


Well, I never said that so...


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

AGoodFlogging said:


> Well, I never said that so...


That's outstanding then. If you let this go, it will repeat. 

Plan for the worst, hope for the best which may be the worst, act accordingly. You can do it.


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## AGoodFlogging (Dec 19, 2020)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> That's outstanding then. If you let this go, it will repeat.
> 
> Plan for the worst, hope for the best which may be the worst, act accordingly. You can do it.


Again, never suggested "letting it go". I suggest that he makes sure he tells her that her lying has damaged the trust in their relationship.

Beyond that, what should he do? Go for the man-sulk around the lake as you suggest? Might help him I suppose but is awfully passive aggressive. Get some VARs deployed around the house and a GPS tracker in the car? Refuse to allow her to leave the house?

He can't control her behaviour. If she is dumb enough to not realise that her actions have damaged her relationship despite being told that then that's on her. If she doesn't take suitable steps to rebuild trust then that is on her too.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

AGoodFlogging said:


> Again, never suggested "letting it go". I suggest that he makes sure he tells her that her lying has damaged the trust in their relationship.
> 
> Beyond that, what should he do? Go for the man-sulk around the lake as you suggest? Might help him I suppose but is awfully passive aggressive. Get some VARs deployed around the house and a GPS tracker in the car? Refuse to allow her to leave the house?
> 
> He can't control her behaviour. If she is dumb enough to not realise that her actions have damaged her relationship despite being told that then that's on her. If she doesn't take suitable steps to rebuild trust then that is on her too.


No man sulk, that's a horrible path to consider. Obviously you can tell I'm against that, I'd hope you would be too.

OP best to start living more independently and planning his own schedules, have his own space at his convenience without her.


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## AGoodFlogging (Dec 19, 2020)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> No man sulk, that's a horrible path to consider. Obviously you can tell I'm against that, I'd hope you would be too.
> 
> OP best to start living more independently and planning his own schedules, have his own space at his convenience without her.


Well you did suggest it, just as you are suggesting other passive aggressive responses in this latest post.

I would suggest to OP that passive aggressive responses such as suddenly going off fishing and starting to plan and do things without engaging with her are unlikely to improve the relationship.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

AGoodFlogging said:


> Again, never suggested "letting it go". I suggest that he makes sure he tells her that her lying has damaged the trust in their relationship.
> 
> Beyond that, what should he do? Go for the man-sulk around the lake as you suggest? Might help him I suppose but is awfully passive aggressive. Get some VARs deployed around the house and a GPS tracker in the car? Refuse to allow her to leave the house?
> 
> He can't control her behaviour. If she is dumb enough to not realise that her actions have damaged her relationship despite being told that then that's on her. If she doesn't take suitable steps to rebuild trust then that is on her too.


What gets me is that she made purchases out of the joint account but then lied about her whereabouts. She didn't think that part through.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

AGoodFlogging said:


> Well you did suggest it, just as you are suggesting other passive aggressive responses in this latest post.
> 
> I would suggest to OP that passive aggressive responses such as suddenly going off fishing and starting to plan and do things without engaging with her are unlikely to improve the relationship.


You're against him being able to plan his own life and schedule? Why is that?

You may have a misunderstanding of passive aggressive. 

Planning your own schedule in the open surely isn't passive aggressive. Building you're own independent activities, hobbies, and working on your self sufficiency in the open isn't passive aggressive.


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## AGoodFlogging (Dec 19, 2020)

lifeistooshort said:


> What gets me is that she made purchases out of the joint account but then lied about her whereabouts. She didn't think that part through.


Yep, totally dumb move and she needs to atone for it and rebuild the trust. OP should expect that as long as he has clearly expressed to her that her behaviour has caused damage.


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## tlsntlsn (Dec 30, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> Eh, I'll admit I've done this.....said I left work late when i went to the mall.
> 
> Why? It's stupid but sometimes I want to be left alone and don't want to explain myself to anyone. I'm not doing anything beyond shopping (mostly window).
> 
> ...


Thanks for this perspective. Really insightful to hear it from someone who's done the same. 

It's definitely not a pattern I recognized, was the first time ever I found her lying about this. This is why I was in shock, and of course it sparked lots of other questions. If she lied about this stupid 90 minutes shopping stroll and covered it up (didn't answer my call or messages) where else she needed to lie...


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

tlsntlsn said:


> Thanks for this perspective. Really insightful to hear it from someone who's done the same.
> 
> It's definitely not a pattern I recognized, was the first time ever I found her lying about this. This is why I was in shock, and of course it sparked lots of other questions. If she lied about this stupid 90 minutes shopping stroll and covered it up (didn't answer my call or messages) where else she needed to lie...


Now you're getting the point.


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## tlsntlsn (Dec 30, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> What gets me is that she made purchases out of the joint account but then lied about her whereabouts. She didn't think that part through.


To me this is another proof she doesn't consider me a micromanager or as someone who would track this down...


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## AGoodFlogging (Dec 19, 2020)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> You're against him being able to plan his own life and schedule? Why is that?
> 
> You may have a misunderstanding of passive aggressive.
> 
> Planning your own schedule in the open surely isn't passive aggressive. Building you're own independent activities, hobbies, and working on your self sufficiency in the open isn't passive aggressive.


I don't misunderstand anything thanks.

It is about these things being done in response to the wife's behaviour without any discussion or resolution to the actual issue. It can and will come across as passive aggressive, because it is.

The right thing at the wrong time is still the wrong thing.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

AGoodFlogging said:


> Yep, totally dumb move and she needs to atone for it and rebuild the trust. OP should expect that as long as he has clearly expressed to her that her behaviour has caused damage.


She already knew her actions caused damage without having to be told. What grown person wouldn't know. She's regretting getting caught as that will open the eyes of H to other dishonesty, that yes, his W just might lie to him way more than he realized.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

tlsntlsn said:


> Thanks for your perspective. I am trying to let this one slide but it's been difficult...


Uh… what do you mean by that? What is the alternative to letting it slide, badgering her repeatedly about a white lie?

That’s almost certain to cause resentment.

If I found out my wife did this I would just laugh at her and ask what she bought me.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

AGoodFlogging said:


> I don't misunderstand anything thanks.
> 
> It is about these things being done in response to the wife's behaviour without any discussion or resolution to the actual issue. It can and will come across as passive aggressive, because it is.
> 
> The right thing at the wrong time is still the wrong thing.


Your still missing the point, and no, actions in the open without rancor is just living life as you'd like it to be, not passive aggressive. Being in a M doesn't mean you're a serf. 

Why are you against him having agency for his life?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

tlsntlsn said:


> To me this is another proof she doesn't consider me a micromanager or as someone who would track this down...


It also could mean that it wasn't a big enough deal in her head to think it through.

In fairness though people who are up to no good do tell dumb lies all the time but it doesn't sound like there is anything else questionable going on. People unfortunately tell dumb lies all the time for lots of reasons....how many guys lie about watching porn even with a wife who doesn't care? I'd bet a lot.

Do you feel like she understands at this point that dumb lies are still lies?


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## AGoodFlogging (Dec 19, 2020)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> She already knew her actions caused damage without having to be told. What grown person wouldn't know. She's regretting getting caught as that will open the eyes of H to other dishonesty, that yes, his W just might lie to him way more than he realized.


Perhaps, perhaps not. He will have to observe her behaviour to see what happens next. Being clear about things is important, even if they are obvious, as it justifies any next steps that may need to be made.


Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> She already knew her actions caused damage without having to be told. What grown person wouldn't know. She's regretting getting caught as that will open the eyes of H to other dishonesty, that yes, his W just might lie to him way more than he realized.


This forum is full of people who can't see the obvious in front of their faces. Happens all the time.

If she did know then him telling her doesn't make any difference. If she didn't know and he told her then she does now and has no excuse. There is no reason not to make it absolutely crystal clear either way.

His wife might like loads and she might not. This one incident can't prove it one way or the other.


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## tlsntlsn (Dec 30, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> It also could mean that it wasn't a big enough deal in her head to think it through.
> 
> In fairness though people who are up to no good do tell dumb lies all the time but it doesn't sound like there is anything else questionable going on. People unfortunately tell dumb lies all the time for lots of reasons....how many guys lie about watching porn even with a wife who doesn't care? I'd bet a lot.
> 
> Do you feel like she understands at this point that dumb lies are still lies?


I think she does... She said she barely functions ever since this happened. So think she's genuinely regretting this.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

OP how often do you call her in the afternoon when she’s at work?


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## AGoodFlogging (Dec 19, 2020)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Your still missing the point, and no, actions in the open without rancor is just living life as you'd like it to be, not passive aggressive. Being in a M doesn't mean you're a serf.


I'm missing nothing. You are of course entitled to your opinion. I do not agree with it and think your advice is bad.



> Why are you against him having agency for his life?


I'm not and have never said I am. Please stop straw-manning it is boring.


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## AGoodFlogging (Dec 19, 2020)

tlsntlsn said:


> I think she does... She said she barely functions ever since this happened. So think she's genuinely regretting this.


Okay, so what is the next step here? How is she going to rebuild your trust?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

AGoodFlogging said:


> I'm missing nothing. You are of course entitled to your opinion. I do not agree with it and think your advice is bad.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not and have never said I am. Please stop straw-manning it is boring.


It's good to hear your not condoning him not having a life. Some common sense there.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

tlsntlsn said:


> Thanks for this perspective. Really insightful to hear it from someone who's done the same.
> 
> It's definitely not a pattern I recognized, was the first time ever I found her lying about this. This is why I was in shock, and of course it sparked lots of other questions. If she lied about this stupid 90 minutes shopping stroll and covered it up (didn't answer my call or messages) where else she needed to lie...


Did you find out what kind of clothing she bought?


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## tlsntlsn (Dec 30, 2021)

AGoodFlogging said:


> Okay, so what is the next step here? How is she going to rebuild your trust?


I think neither of us know the answer here. Happy for suggestions. She did say this will never happen again


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## tlsntlsn (Dec 30, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> OP how often do you call her in the afternoon when she’s at work?


Probably 2-3 times each week. That's usually when we do our daily call


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## tlsntlsn (Dec 30, 2021)

jonty30 said:


> Did you find out what kind of clothing she bought?


I didn't but the transactions show those are pretty boring day to day clothing stores. I don't think there's anything scandalous there but it's the second time this comes up. Why are you asking?


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Seems to be a lot of high emotions over something so trivial.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

tlsntlsn said:


> I didn't but the transactions show those are pretty boring day to day clothing stores. I don't think there's anything scandalous there but it's the second time this comes up. Why are you asking?


Because there is a difference between work suits and lingerie. 
If it had been non-sexy clothing, that's nothing to be concerned about.
If it was lingerie, than it becomes a question of whom she was going to show it off to.

It's a relevant question, I think.

It just sounds like that she wanted to do something for herself without having to account for her time. That's fine.


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## tlsntlsn (Dec 30, 2021)

jonty30 said:


> Because there is a difference between work suits and lingerie.
> If it had been non-sexy clothing, that's nothing to be concerned about.
> If it was lingerie, than it becomes a question of whom she was going to show it off to.
> 
> ...


Ok you made me look 

Browsed those businesses catalog online... No underwear or lingerie what so ever... I know those are brands she likes and buys from on a regular basis...


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

I cannot provide my opinion unless you tell us the nature of what she purchased and why.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Barring other reasons she hid this, you would think you'd be her partner in frivolous escapades like taking time off work and enjoying a day at the mall or wherever, you'd be the first person she'd share that she played hooky from work to go shopping.

Many malls have Applebees and other establishments to get cocktails and have snacks. The lack of her attention to responding to general texts may be because she wasn't alone.
Now, this isn't a certainty and hope for the best, but the trickle truth and having to get caught lying before some partial admissions to you doesn't bode well.

If you hadn't had some gut feeling to motivate you to do what checking you could, you still wouldn't know. How do you feel about that.

Go with your gut. Any other extended grocery shopping or errand days, any cash withdrawals?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

lifeistooshort said:


> What gets me is that she made purchases out of the joint account but then lied about her whereabouts. She didn't think that part through.


Or purchases at a known place to have cover before doing something else.


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## tlsntlsn (Dec 30, 2021)

Pardon my ignorance, but what could cash withdrawals or extended grocery list prove?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

tlsntlsn said:


> Pardon my ignorance, but what could cash withdrawals or extended grocery list prove?


Extended grocery shopping time (not a list) which provides some "personal" free time as well, but coming home with groceries.

Cash withdrawals or different than joint account fund source provides a spouse with ability to go have entertainment time without a way for the other spouse to see what expenditures were made. More cover.

Do you really think your W doesn't already know you can see where she is or where she's spending money from the joint account at will?
Not hardly.


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## ShatteredKat (Mar 23, 2016)

*tlsntlsn*

Happy almost New Years!

Asking a question or two -
Would you want your children going somewhere without you knowing? Part of life is trusting folks to follow rules for family. Family members should be open to sharing their whereabouts - at the very least in a general sense - so that should something occur where they need some kind of assistance - lost /wallet/phone? transportation issue (flat tire/accident) - buttwipe friend issue? Think of items in past news where someone goes on a hike or camping and 
"gets lost." 

Good family relationships - my assessment - is keeping each other aware of general activities. General communication on where they will be and when to expect them to return home. Spouse is included.

Assuming everyone (almost) has a cell phone - install Life 360 or some similar app - share location. Persons who are disposed to be "against sharing their location" - have a problem of some kind (again, my opinion) and I think they go places they don't WANT you to know about. Case in point - I have a homosexual relative who won't share location - I'm thinking because he goes to places known to be "meeting places" for those of similar persuasion. Wife? Visit to paramours apartment - Husband - Sugg&Tugg massage parlor?

How would your wife react to Life 360? Food for thought.

Lies? of any kind are a negative personality trait. One can "google" lots of info on how lies undermine relationships.

Lies are never necessary - instead - just defer an answer. 
"I don't want to answer." Not a lie and makes plain the speaker is uncomfortable with sharing the information requested.

suggestion for reading: Lying

Your question regarding the "white lie" - tells me you have some reason to worry about your wife's personality or boundaries or attitude (there's a difference) or something else. There is something missing in your relationship when one cannot tell the other they are going to do something for themself. He: "I'm going fishing tomorrow @ 5 AM."
Her? What _WOULD_ she share she is going to do? 

OK, something done on the "spur of the moment" - then a short text or voice message regarding the change will be showing concern (where is ?) and some small measure of respect. Respect in that a person does not want to cause undue concern.

What has changed (or has it changed?) in your spousal relationship such that a deception is deemed necessary and/or appropriate?

Then - you can tell by receipts what kind of store was visited to make a purchase. (Retail therapy) 
I would not expect ACE Hardware to be a common place visit for a woman. Although one in our neighborhood has a lot of neat stuff that are "house decorations." Macys - expect her to be there a couple hours!

Or did she pay cash for a purchase at a "Victoria's Secret" (question posted by jonty30) as paraphrased by me.

I say do not get side-tracked by any part related to the lie - the_* lie itself*_ for any reason is a concern.
Also consider - what else? - the "lie of omission" comes to mind

Good luck dealing with this.


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## AdrianTT (Dec 21, 2021)

It starts off like this. A little white lie as society has trained us to think. You give an inch and soon it would be a mile. Address her concerns whilst it is supposedly at the budding stage because you don’t want to eventually hear, “I’ve cheated and I’m sorry“…how much slack can you give at that point?

I wish you all the very best. A lie is a lie especially when you consider it from a biblical perspective.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Barring other reasons she hid this, you would think you'd be her partner in frivolous escapades like taking time off work and enjoying a day at the mall or wherever, you'd be the first person she'd share that she played hooky from work to go shopping.
> 
> Many malls have Applebees and other establishments to get ****tails and have snacks. The lack of her attention to responding to general texts may be because she wasn't alone.
> Now, this isn't a certainty and hope for the best, but the trickle truth and having to get caught lying before some partial admissions to you doesn't bode well.
> ...


Or because she planned for some ME time and responding to her husband's messages started to make her feel guilty about her plan?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

MattMatt said:


> Or because she planned for some ME time and responding to her husband's messages started to make her feel guilty about her plan?


That's a real possibility too. 

However in a good M or a M without shenanigans, most all spouses would let their mate know, to both be in on it so the spouse wouldn't call them at work and their apparent surprise let the hooky time cat out of the bag and as part of the family communique let the spouse know where they are in the event of an emergency or similar.


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

IMO your wife needs some alone time. People are different so whatever works for her may not be understandable for you.

She has no history of inappriopriate texting or boundaries with other men. Therefore, all I see is a little white lie to give herself some 'me' time. Years ago early on Saturday morning (before anyone was up) I used to stop off for breakfast on my way to Home Depot. 

Those 30-40 minutes alone at the breakfast counter (read the paper no distractions) were incredibly valuable to me. And something I used to look forward to it - but it wasn't a priority. I dont' recall how often or how long ... probably on and off for a year. 

But I remember how much pleasure something so simple gave me. The pleasure seemed way out of proportion to the activity. 

I never lied about it but I also never told my wife (or my friends) because disclosure somehow made it less valuable for me. Or maybe it gave me a sense of control in my otherwise over scheduled chaotic life.


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## tlsntlsn (Dec 30, 2021)

Robert22205 said:


> IMO your wife needs some alone time. People are different so whatever works for her may not be understandable for you.
> 
> She has no history of inappriopriate texting or boundaries with other men. Therefore, all I see is a little white lie to give herself some 'me' time. Years ago early on Saturday morning (before anyone was up) I used to stop off for breakfast on my way to Home Depot.
> 
> ...


Thanks Robert. I totally appreciate and understand the importance of me time as you so vividly put it. The question I am curious about is what you'd have done if your wife called you while on breakfast (assuming it was during the cell phone era ). Would you then say something different than eating breakfast to protect this precious me time?


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

I agree with most of the pack.
She needed some space. There's nothing wrong with that.
The problem that I would have with that would be the lying.
Assuming that you give her space when requested, her lying about it is unacceptable.
Both Mrs. Tdbo and I are honest with and grant each other space when necessary.
Also, we always respond to each others texts/calls ASAP, even if we are having time to ourselves.
There are such things as emergencies that come up. In addition, being considerate to your spouse that may be concerned about your well being is another factor as well.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> What gets me is that she made purchases out of the joint account but then lied about her whereabouts. She didn't think that part through.


That could be a good sign. Being a good liar isn't always so good.😋

Maybe she was just frazzled?


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## Bluesclues (Mar 30, 2016)

@tlsntlsn were the kids with you or someone else?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

tlsntlsn said:


> Hello -
> 
> New to this forum so hoping for a friendly audience and advice.
> I've been married for 12+ years to my wife and it's been as normal and as stable as it gets, 2 kids and the whole deal.
> ...


Yeah, sorry to be cynical but having read lots of these stories there is probably a lot more. Find out if she was with anyone else and who that was.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> That could be a good sign. Being a good liar isn't always so good.😋
> 
> Maybe she was just frazzled?


Or now she can learn how to be a better one.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

tlsntlsn said:


> I think neither of us know the answer here. Happy for suggestions. She did say this will never happen again


Did she Why she felt like she had to lie to you? Why didn't she just call and she needs a few hours at the mall?

Doesn't sound like you would have anything other than "ok, have fun and just let me know when you are headed home"


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

sokillme said:


> Or now she can learn how to be a better one.


Here's hoping not.

It does sound like she just wanted some her time and told a white lie about it instead of just being straight.

She probably needs to develop more strength to get what she needs occasionally without feeling like she has to sneak to get it.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

tlsntlsn said:


> I think she does... She said she barely functions ever since this happened. So think she's genuinely regretting this.


She’s regretting it? Or she regrets being caught?
That’s the part you may never know!


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## tlsntlsn (Dec 30, 2021)

Bluesclues said:


> @tlsntlsn were the kids with you or someone else?


They were with her parents. They usually pick them up on Thursdays and that week they also picked one of them on Wednesday (when it happened). The other kid had a playdate and my wife brought him back when she was back from the mall. 

According to her she felt bad hanging out in the mall while her parents were doing extra duty...


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

jonty30 said:


> Did you find out what kind of clothing she bought?


This could be insightful. Ask to see what she purchased!


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## tlsntlsn (Dec 30, 2021)

jlg07 said:


> Did she Why she felt like she had to lie to you? Why didn't she just call and she needs a few hours at the mall?
> 
> Doesn't sound like you would have anything other than "ok, have fun and just let me know when you are headed home"


No intelligent answer here from her really. She just she was embarrassed about going to the mall while her parents are doing an extra shift with the kids.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

tlsntlsn said:


> They were with her parents. They usually pick them up on Thursdays and that week they also picked one of them on Wednesday (when it happened). The other kid had a playdate and my wife brought him back when she was back from the mall.
> 
> According to her she felt bad hanging out in the mall while her parents were doing extra duty...


Not guilty enough to go get her own children. Not guilty enough to use her parents and lie to the ones she says she loves.

It’s behavior that’s concerning. Find out what changed. What she bought (that was that important) and suggest counseling.
Lying to all the people she loves? There’s a reason. Find out.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

tlsntlsn said:


> No intelligent answer here from her really. She just she was embarrassed about going to the mall while her parents are doing an extra shift with the kids.


Yet she did it anyway.

You aren’t digging deep enough to find key info. Have you looked through her phone bill lately? I would!


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

tlsntlsn said:


> I think she does... She said she barely functions ever since this happened. So think she's genuinely regretting this.


I'm really not getting a sense of nefarious intentions here.

She shouldn't be barely functioning. She should have just admitted it was dumb and that she won't do that next time she wants to shop or whatever.

I don't believe you should be holding this over her especially considering how bad she feels.

Small stuff in a big world. Not worth so much consternation.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

lifeistooshort said:


> What gets me is that she made purchases out of the joint account but then lied about her whereabouts. She didn't think that part through.


That's probably the most positive part about the lie-- that she clearly wasn't consumed with 'covering her tracks'.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

tlsntlsn said:


> No intelligent answer here from her really. She just she was embarrassed about going to the mall while her parents are doing an extra shift with the kids.


As your wife she should have been able to tell YOU what she was doing, though. 

Personally, it would make me wonder what other things she lies about.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

tlsntlsn said:


> No intelligent answer here from her really. She just she was embarrassed about going to the mall while her parents are doing an extra shift with the kids.


So i could see her not telling her PARENTS but why not you? Her parents I'm sure loved having the time with the grandkids. Doesn't follow to me that she had a problem telling you.


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## tlsntlsn (Dec 30, 2021)

uwe.blab said:


> That's probably the most positive part about the lie-- that she clearly wasn't consumed with 'covering her tracks'.


Yes I agree. I think she can be rather sophisticated when she wants to. I too think this is just a harsh act coming from shame and not a premeditated action... I hope I'm not convincing myself too hard


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

I honestly find it sad that your wife needs a break *SO* badly from all her responsibilities that she practically had to fake her own death just to get a couple of hours of retail therapy alone without having to cater to you or your kids or to anyone but herself. Oh, the horror.

The woman works a full time job then comes home to ANOTHER full time job. She's not the first woman to want to run away for a couple of hours. Be glad she came back.

Sorry, but that's just my 2 cents.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> _*Eh, I'll admit I've done this.....said I left work late when i went to the mall.
> 
> Why? It's stupid but sometimes I want to be left alone and don't want to explain myself to anyone. I'm not doing anything beyond shopping (mostly window).*_



Your post is exactly what I was trying to get across in my earlier post.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> I honestly find it sad that your wife needs a break *SO* badly from all her responsibilities that she practically had to fake her own death just to get a couple of hours of retail therapy alone without having to cater to you or your kids or to anyone but herself. Oh, the horror.
> 
> The woman works a full time job then comes home to ANOTHER full time job. She's not the first woman to want to run away for a couple of hours. Be glad she came back.
> 
> Sorry, but that's just my 2 cents.


****, I need a break from going home to cater to the W, kids, and grandkids, home maintenance, holiday activities. I think I'll head out to the marina, maybe stay and fish tonight and tomorrow.
But I think I'll call the W and let her know where I'm at. She appreciates that type of nonessential (I guess?) stuff.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> $h!t, I need a break from going home to cater to the W, kids, and grandkids, home maintenance, holiday activities. I think I'll head out to the marina, maybe stay and fish tonight and tomorrow.
> But I think I'll call the W and let her know where I'm at. She appreciates that type of nonessential (I guess?) stuff.


eh, staying out fishing overnight? Not the same thing. What you describe might take a week to plan, and you’d let her know in advance. I sense some major tit-for-tat here in all of your posts, and a push for punishment. If OP is THAT GUY, it’s a worry.


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## Erudite (Jan 28, 2015)

I'm sorry but this is SO unusual that you just HAD to basically snoop in on her time? Sounds like you're the one with issues...


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> Eh, I'll admit I've done this.....said I left work late when i went to the mall.
> 
> Why? It's stupid but sometimes I want to be left alone and don't want to explain myself to anyone. I'm not doing anything beyond shopping (mostly window).
> 
> ...


Male version of this post here.

This is so regular and common sense.

@tlsntlsn , don't you think this is what applies in your wife's situation?

I do.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> You're assuming she puts herself last?
> 
> It doesn't sound like it.


Yes I’m assuming. He has avoided really giving details about what her day to day life is like, whether she has any outlet outside her husband and kids, so I’m assuming, based on his information, that she doesn’t get to do this often.

I’m also assuming that you’re very very angry about this and that she needs to be punished. ‘Get her for this, now!’

Why am I assuming this?


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## QuietGuy (Aug 31, 2021)

Maybe it is time to schedule a weekend for the 2 of you to relax, have some fun and just talk. I would not dwell on this, just let her know how surprised and hurt you were and let her know you are there for her. Relax and let it pass - unless you start to notice other out of character behaviours.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Maybe your reaction is why she just wanted a little time to herself. Also she may feel guilty for wanting time to herself and the interrogation isn’t helping that guilt.

the lie is concerning. But I don’t have this big worry that some seem to be implying she’s having an affair. By all means ask yourself the standard questions does she hid her phone? Is she backing away from you? Does she have someone at work she’s too close to? Check the phone bill.

then after that ask yourself how has the pandemic effected her. Is she in a high needs/demand profession like nursing/doctor or teaching? Why does she feel guilty about a little time to herself? Do you hover, does her mother or yours or you, or herself make her feel like a bad mother? Like she doesn’t spend enough time or energy with the kids?

how about you make a plan to give her a few hours off every other week on purpose? Let her know it’s ok. Support her.


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## tlsntlsn (Dec 30, 2021)

Luckylucky said:


> Yes I’m assuming. He has avoided really giving details about what her day to day life is like, whether she has any outlet outside her husband and kids, so I’m assuming, based on his information, that she doesn’t get to do this often.
> 
> I’m also assuming that you’re very very angry about this and that she needs to be punished. ‘Get her for this, now!’
> 
> Why am I assuming this?


Appreciate your perspective. I tried to provide whatever details and context people asked me to provide. Yes, I do think she's stressed, probably on par with how the average working mom is (no more, no less). I do chip in pretty heavily in the house chords, while maintaining an extremely demanding career. She'll be the first to admit that I have less Me time than her, I rarely go out (definitely not without her), don't have too many hobbies and my life is dedicated to family and work as I consider myself a fairly involved father. 
Visiting the mall for a couple of hours is not a rare occasion for her and happens on average once a week. This is the first time she hid and lied about it.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

tlsntlsn said:


> Appreciate your perspective. I tried to provide whatever details and context people asked me to provide. Yes, I do think she's stressed, probably on par with how the average working mom is (no more, no less). I do chip in pretty heavily in the house chords, while maintaining an extremely demanding career. She'll be the first to admit that I have less Me time than her, I rarely go out (definitely not without her), don't have too many hobbies and my life is dedicated to family and work as I consider myself a fairly involved father.
> Visiting the mall for a couple of hours is not a rare occasion for her and happens on average once a week. This is the first time she hid and lied about it.


Have a heart to heart. Obviously something's slipping a little but it isn't really far gone at all.

These times have been hard on all of us.


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## tlsntlsn (Dec 30, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> Maybe your reaction is why she just wanted a little time to herself. Also she may feel guilty for wanting time to herself and the interrogation isn’t helping that guilt.
> 
> the lie is concerning. But I don’t have this big worry that some seem to be implying she’s having an affair. By all means ask yourself the standard questions does she hid her phone? Is she backing away from you? Does she have someone at work she’s too close to? Check the phone bill.
> 
> ...


Really intrigued by what you meant by my response is the reason she needed time for herself?


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

tlsntlsn said:


> Really intrigued by what you meant by my response is the reason she needed time for herself?


I mean you seem to think it some kind of huge problem you even have a poll.

I see you say she goes once a week. So what is your normal reaction to her going to you rib her? Make it into a bad thing? Guilt her?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Anastasia6 said:


> I mean you seem to think it some kind of huge problem you even have a poll.
> 
> I see you say she goes once a week. So what is your normal reaction to her going to you rib her? Make it into a bad thing? Guilt her?


I'm very curious about what the pressures on this woman are or what she feels as pressures.

This really seems like such a small hurdle though I'm not demeaning this dynamic.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

ConanHub said:


> I'm very curious about what the pressures on this woman are or what she feels as pressures.
> 
> This really seems like such a small hurdle though I'm not demeaning this dynamic.


I’m huge into not lying but yes this seems so trivial but look at the title how SEVERE is what my wife did? Seems like she went to the mall. Why would this be severe? She lied. That’s bad but if it’s a one off I’d be asking why ( to myself probably not to the wife). But she very upset. Why? That seems more like a reaction to him than to the actions she actually did.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

What did she buy?


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## tlsntlsn (Dec 30, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> I mean you seem to think it some kind of huge problem you even have a poll.
> 
> I see you say she goes once a week. So what is your normal reaction to her going to you rib her? Make it into a bad thing? Guilt her?


The pole was designed to help me get my sanity back as I've been agonizing about this for a week now. I'm not the same person this past week and this whole incident turned things for the worse. I don't feel comfortable talking about this with anyone in my circle so as a last resort turned to the www for some feedback. I was trying to understand how big of a deal this is, whether it's normal to agonize over this white lie (?) and just accept these things are normal and move on (which I tried to do but been caught in this limbo state for too long). 

I was hoping most people would say this is not a huge deal, those things happen and that we should just kiss, make up and make this an opportunity to make our relationship stronger. Easier said than done though...


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

I would think that the op is sorry he ever came here looking for advice. @tisntisn a high percentage of people on this forum have been cheated on and unfortunately they are inclined to see the worst in any situation no matter how innocent it is.
So deal with what you know and what you can easily check. How long was she actually missing from work, how often does she do this and what exactly did she buy.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Anastasia6 said:


> I’m huge into not lying but yes this seems so trivial but look at the title how SEVERE is what my wife did? Seems like she went to the mall. Why would this be severe? She lied. That’s bad but if it’s a one off I’d be asking why ( to myself probably not to the wife). But she very upset. Why? That seems more like a reaction to him than to the actions she actually did.


Yeah. Something seems a little off kilter in the unhealthy range but it is hard to determine the cause from these posts.

It seems pretty small to me but Op and his wife seem to be more impacted by this


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

Drop it and play dumb. The truth is she probably wasn't doing anything but if she was you tipped your hand that you're watching. Nothing to gain from staying on her at this point.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Beach123 said:


> What did she buy?


He answered that it was just regular stuff from regular stores, I believe


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## tlsntlsn (Dec 30, 2021)

Andy1001 said:


> I would think that the op is sorry he ever came here looking for advice. @tisntisn a high percentage of people on this forum have been cheated on and unfortunately they are inclined to see the worst in any situation no matter how innocent it is.
> So deal with what you know and what you can easily check. How long was she actually missing from work, how often does she do this and what exactly did she buy.


Thanks this is super relevant context. It seems many people here are feel the urge the need what she bought. To me that was always a very secondary question in this whole story so will ask her... As I mentioned the brands she bought at are far from scandalous but with so many people bringing this up I am now starting to think that maybe she bought something for someone she didn't want me to know but it feels remote honestly... 

And no, other than this lie I didn't feel anything unusual in her behavior the last couple of months.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

tlsntlsn said:


> The pole was designed to help me get my sanity back as I've been agonizing about this for a week now. I'm not the same person this past week and this whole incident turned things for the worse. I don't feel comfortable talking about this with anyone in my circle so as a last resort turned to the www for some feedback. I was trying to understand how big of a deal this is, whether it's normal to agonize over this white lie (?) and just accept these things are normal and move on (which I tried to do but been caught in this limbo state for too long).
> 
> I was hoping most people would say this is not a huge deal, those things happen and that we should just kiss, make up and make this an opportunity to make our relationship stronger. Easier said than done though...


So this is what I mean. You've been obsessing for a week? You can't talk to anyone you know and you sought out an internet forum. This seems like a huge over reaction. There has to be something you aren't telling us. Why would you need to kiss and make up? Why would this have caused some kind of major conflict?

To be clear, me and my husband are super honest with each other. And lies would be cause for concern but this seems like either a complete over reaction on your part or you are leaving something out of your story.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

tlsntlsn said:


> The pole was designed to help me get my sanity back as I've been agonizing about this for a week now. I'm not the same person this past week and this whole incident turned things for the worse. I don't feel comfortable talking about this with anyone in my circle so as a last resort turned to the www for some feedback. I was trying to understand how big of a deal this is, whether it's normal to agonize over this white lie (?) and just accept these things are normal and move on (which I tried to do but been caught in this limbo state for too long).
> 
> I was hoping most people would say this is not a huge deal, those things happen and that we should just kiss, make up and make this an opportunity to make our relationship stronger. Easier said than done though...


Well, from the poll, it would seem your wishes have been justified.

I understand the need for honesty, seriously, I can handle almost anything as long as honesty is the foundation, so I get any anxiety you have.

Just make sure your wife understands your mutual need for honesty and back your own play.

If you require honesty, live up to your own requirements and love your wife until she can't see straight as she feels free to always be straight with you.

Get to the bottom of why she felt like a white lie was acceptable and help her overcome whatever was messing with her.

She does appear to be looking to you for the leadership role. Live up to it if that's your dynamic.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

tlsntlsn said:


> Thanks this is super relevant context. It seems many people here are feel the urge the need what she bought. To me that was always a very secondary question in this whole story so will ask her... As I mentioned the brands she bought at are far from scandalous but with so many people bringing this up I am now starting to think that maybe she bought something for someone she didn't want me to know but it feels remote honestly...
> 
> And no, other than this lie I didn't feel anything unusual in her behavior the last couple of months.


Isn't Covid taking Israel by storm right now? Do you and her agree with the same 'social distancing'' requirements. Does she maybe feel guilty going to a public place right now?

It is so hard to tell what is going on with you and your wife. Cause if she goes regular doesn't seem there would be a need to lie. So that is maybe somewhat suspicious. But in reality it really gives the vibe that you might be too controlling or clingy or something. 

I know and freely admit my husband at times has worked harder than me. So I sometimes feel guilty when I decide to do nothing or sleep in or something. You mentioned you do your share around the house and have a stressful job. Perhaps she feels guilty about not being a 'good wife'. I believe in your culture that can really come into play. Surely you two have had some conversations that might give you a clue as to whether she ever feels like she isnt' good enough or that your too clingy? anything ringing a bell here?


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Anastasia6 said:


> I’m huge into not lying but yes this seems so trivial but look at the title how SEVERE is what my wife did? Seems like she went to the mall. Why would this be severe? She lied. That’s bad but if it’s a one off I’d be asking why ( to myself probably not to the wife). But she very upset. Why? That seems more like a reaction to him than to the actions she actually did.


Yes we have new information that she goes once a week, but now it’s ‘how severe’ and she’s very upset & guilt-ridden. It must be building up for him. Who knows, maybe she’s spending too much?


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Luckylucky said:


> Yes we have new information that she goes once a week, but now it’s ‘how severe’ and she’s very upset & guilt-ridden. It must be building up for him. Who knows, maybe she’s spending too much?


I had that thought too but he didn't even mention the money.

ETA: most people lie due to guilt or fear.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> Yeah. Something seems a little off kilter in the unhealthy range but it is hard to determine the cause from these posts.
> 
> It seems pretty small to me but Op and his wife seem to be more impacted by this


Add to this that he said she barely functions.

He's been obsessing for a week and she is barely functioning.....this seems like a lot of drama over something so small.

Unless we're missing details this is way over the top.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Maybe it's something in the Israeli culture.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Blondilocks said:


> Maybe it's something in the Israeli culture.


Certainly in the Jewish culture, where they take their marriage vows more seriously than those who are secular.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

AC and I talked about this thread a little this morning...

As I have finished reading the latest responses, it feels like she knew her responsibilities (pick up the kids), let those responsibilities be owned by someone (grandparents) without communicating the truth (she wanted to run by the mall herself), was lightly called on it and chose poorly to not be truthful.

It is a big deal to her, she disappointed herself first, knows she disappointed her spouse, and is now suffering the fallout.

There are two layers to an untruth (lie, fib, etc), we are afraid of the outcome or we don't have respect for the recipient... when a selfish act it can be a little of both. Here she was less than respectful beling a little selfish (she knew she was taking someone else's time) and then in fear of the unknown reaction of others was not truthful.

She learned the hard way how this falls... I am sure she is beating herself up pretty badly.

Forgiveness is earned, she has walked the path for it so let her know you have the strength to lead and offer her yours, then let her know she should do the same for herself... lessons learned for you both that lack of truth is worse than going through this, growth for you both as wrongs are righted in the practice of understanding repentance from such deeds.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

I'm just realizing that they are Israelis. Now I can see the enigma of his seemingly over the top reaction to people from other cultures (marriage vows), and as @Emerging Buddhist rationalized it, I think that he's right on the money.

Nothing sinister going on here by either one. I think she's just feeling guilty of having to steal some "guilty pleasure" on the back of her parents and having to justify it by lying to the hubby/parents. Of course for OP this is a transgression, and rightly so (the lying, not the fact of what she was doing).
Of course, I saw where some of the mostly female gang was going with this= he most be some kind of male chauvinistic pig to have forced her to run for the hills and find solace for a couple of hours. Just the fact that he was polling was enough to raise enough suspicion that he most be some kind of controlling dude that most be keeping his wife under the yoke.

I think that OP has enough input by now to rest at ease and realize that although a lie, in the overall skim of things, all he needs to do is to make sure he and wife going forward need to be completely on the same plane of understanding and openness with each other so that no longer there's a need for subterfuge when dealing with life's stresses and be an open book with each other. 
This makes a marriage strong and successful. Communication, communication and always truthful with each other is key.


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## tlsntlsn (Dec 30, 2021)

I must say @Rob_1 comment resonates with me so thanks for this.
Here are a few thoughts:
- don't think you need to over index on us being Israelis, we lived in the states for a while and we're as secular as it gets. I believe our marriage values are similar to most liberal and western couples.

- it's definitely not about the money and how much she spent. That didn't come up in our discussions and wasn't the trigger for this at all. It's for three things I found troubling (a) evade calls / messages while at the mall (b) lie she's just leaving work (b) put a whole act she has no time for herself. To me this felt like a huge cover up for something so trivial and common that she does every week. I simply didn't get that and was shocked to discover she's capable of lying about her whereabouts (for whatever reason, found this to be super troubling). I always thought our relationship is trustful and finding it's not 100% so was a punch in the stomach. I do think I have high standards for telling and keeping the truth and it's probably why I'm agonizing over this more than the average guy. It's also the first time I caught her in such a lot after so many years together so sorry for taking it so dramaticly. 

- I'm not deliberately leaving out anything substantial I'm considering relevant as some people suggest here and happy to address more questions.

- I know I'm not subjective but I really don't see myself as a controlling husband and to be honest a bit offended by some of the sentiment here that's saying I'm the one to blame. I asked her pretty explicitly during the confrontation if I've ever made her feel bad by going to the mall or taking time off and she said that I didn't and definitely do not deserve being lie to. 

The survey does show as I hoped that it's much more on the lighter side of small lies which is great really. But it also a polarizing topic and seems there's a non negligible segment of people that simply can't accept any lies. I think I'm part of that segment. I never lied to her about my whereabouts and would never able to leave work early, go somewhere else and not tell her. This is what cheating husbands do, so yeah, I do think it's pretty 'severe' what she did... It would have been much more severe had she gone to meet someone else of course but still, lying about whereabouts and covering it up simply do not record as a small thing on my book. 
I wish it had.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Luckylucky said:


> eh, staying out fishing overnight? Not the same thing. What you describe might take a week to plan, and you’d let her know in advance. I sense some major tit-for-tat here in all of your posts, and a push for punishment. If OP is THAT GUY, it’s a worry.


A week to plan? Things are always left for immediate return to fish and boat, and camp. Clothes, gear, food, drink stay in constant preparedness. 

5 minutes to decide, 30 min drive.
Ten minutes in the water after arrival is average.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Anastasia6 said:


> Maybe your reaction is why she just wanted a little time to herself. Also she may feel guilty for wanting time to herself and the interrogation isn’t helping that guilt.
> 
> the lie is concerning. But I don’t have this big worry that some seem to be implying she’s having an affair. By all means ask yourself the standard questions does she hid her phone? Is she backing away from you? Does she have someone at work she’s too close to? Check the phone bill.
> 
> ...


She doesn't require him "to give her" a few hours each week. They're both adults. Coordinate is the better word. 

Unless you think she has to have his permission? Kind of a sexist remark.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Not good in that she will lie to do something she wants to do. On top of the lie, if she was abducted or severly injured in a wreck or medical emergency, OP would not know the 1st place to look. She would just disappear or could have become a Jane Doe.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Divinely Favored said:


> Not good in that she will lie to do something she wants to do. On top of the lie, if she was abducted or severly injured in a wreck or medical emergency, OP would not know the 1st place to look. She would just disappear or could have become a Jane Doe.


Bingo.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

tlsntlsn said:


> I think she does... She said she barely functions ever since this happened. So think she's genuinely regretting this.


Look at her actions not what she "says". She already lied about something insignificant...if that was all she was doing....


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Divinely Favored said:


> Not good in that she will lie to do something she wants to do. On top of the lie, if she was abducted or severly injured in a wreck or medical emergency, OP would not know the 1st place to look. She would just disappear or could have become a Jane Doe.


Especially in a country like Israel, that suffers the occasional terrorist attack.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

tlsntlsn said:


> I think neither of us know the answer here. Happy for suggestions. She did say this will never happen again


The lies or the getting caught?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

This transgression is going to be as big of a deal as you make it out to be. I sincerely hope you have put it to bed and your wife never hears another word about it.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> Or because she planned for some ME time and responding to her husband's messages started to make her feel guilty about her plan?


Hopefully this but the lies are troubling. Just say im stressed and going to mall after work. Simple.

OP hows is your communication? Really?

Sex life?

She may need some me time but not comfortable communicating to you that she is overwhelmed.
My MinL uses shopping as her comfort/stress relief. If she is having problems communicating with you, her seeking stress relief from other things(shopaholic) or other people, are not healthy and could lead to serious damage/destruction of marriage.

OP- You need to work on communication between wife and you.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

tlsntlsn said:


> …whether it's normal to agonize over this white lie (?) and just accept these things are normal and move on (which I tried to do but been caught in this limbo state for too long).


In my opinion, no. It’s not normal at all. Blowing off responsibility and covering for it happens ALL THE TIME. Agonizing over something like this is borderline crazy in my opinion.

The phone call she ignored? I never answer the phone. Calling someone on voice is obnoxious, it’s almost as bad as knocking on their front door.

I think your wife just needs space and doesn’t want to interact with people. She found some space away and now you’re on her case about it.

I suggest dropping it and doing less surveillance on her assuming you trust her.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

tlsntlsn said:


> They were with her parents. They usually pick them up on Thursdays and that week they also picked one of them on Wednesday (when it happened). The other kid had a playdate and my wife brought him back when she was back from the mall.
> 
> According to her she felt bad hanging out in the mall while her parents were doing extra duty...


My wife always felt guilty about buying anything for herself. She would buy kids what ever or if i made a comment that i need such and such or want this or that....she would encourage me to buy it. She was a big sis that basically raised her brothers so her mind was switched to provide/caretaker mode and she was not on the list. 

Took me years to break her out of that mindset. Now if she is hesitant, she mentions something and i tell her to buy it. Since i said get it, it gives her approval in her mind, to spend money on herself.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Rob_1 said:


> I'm just realizing that they are Israelis. Now I can see the enigma of his seemingly over the top reaction to people from other cultures (marriage vows), and as @Emerging Buddhist rationalized it, I think that he's right on the money.
> 
> Nothing sinister going on here by either one. I think she's just feeling guilty of having to steal some "guilty pleasure" on the back of her parents and having to justify it by lying to the hubby/parents. Of course for OP this is a transgression, and rightly so (the lying, not the fact of what she was doing).
> Of course, I saw where some of the mostly female gang was going with this= he most be some kind of male chauvinistic pig to have forced her to run for the hills and find solace for a couple of hours. Just the fact that he was polling was enough to raise enough suspicion that he most be some kind of controlling dude that most be keeping his wife under the yoke.
> ...


He said she goes to the mall weekly....no stealing of guilty pleasure necessary. For some reason she just hid the fact she went to the mall this day and made up a lie to cover up that fact. If she is going weekly i do not see a reason why she just could not have told him she was goung by the mall and she will get the kids when done.....but she was deceptive about it...why?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Divinely Favored said:


> He said she goes to the mall weekly....no stealing of guilty pleasure necessary. For some reason she just hid the fact she went to the mall this day and made up a lie to cover up that fact. If she is going weekly i do not see a reason why she just could not have told him she was goung by the mall and she will get the kids when done.....but she was deceptive about it...why?


Yes. Slightly weird vibe with this.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Divinely Favored said:


> He said she goes to the mall weekly....no stealing of guilty pleasure necessary. For some reason she just hid the fact she went to the mall this day and made up a lie to cover up that fact. If she is going weekly i do not see a reason why she just could not have told him she was goung by the mall and she will get the kids when done.....but she was deceptive about it...why?


On the flip side, if she does in fact go to the mall weekly and was this time up to no good, her weekly mall visits would be a great cover story and she'd have zero incentive to lie about it.

Easy to say she was at the mall like she is every week and hubby wouldn't bat an eye. She even bought things as further proof.

So if she was in fact engaging in something questionable why wouldn't she use her weekly mall trip as cover?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

She's been drafted by Mossad!😉


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Divinely Favored said:


> He said she goes to the mall weekly....no stealing of guilty pleasure necessary. For some reason she just hid the fact she went to the mall this day and made up a lie to cover up that fact. If she is going weekly i do not see a reason why she just could not have told him she was goung by the mall and she will get the kids when done.....but she was deceptive about it...why?


Of course, I read where he stated her weekly visits. But if you read my post what I meant was she took this particular instance as a "guilty pleasure" . As to why? this is what she said as explained to her husband after told:



tlsntlsn said:


> According to her she felt bad hanging out in the mall while her parents were doing extra duty...


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

She was caught grabbing a little extra alone time and panicked. Apparently, she feels she is only allowed so much 'me time'.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Rob_1 said:


> Of course, I read where he stated her weekly visits. But if you read my post what I meant was she took this particular instance as a "guilty pleasure" . As to why? this is what she said as explained to her husband after told:


The parents regularly get the kids...but why lie to your husband about where you are? Wonfer if she could be feeling unseen and is enjoying being doted on by boys in the mall that are there checking out the girls? 

I could understand her feeling guilty about being caught in a lie especially if it involved getting ego kobbles by younger males checking her out at the mall.. Never know.


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

Could the reason be something as simple as she didn't tell you because she was looking for your Christmas presents. She was doing some Christmas shopping?


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

tlsntlsn said:


> I must say @Rob_1 comment resonates with me so thanks for this.
> Here are a few thoughts:
> - don't think you need to over index on us being Israelis, we lived in the states for a while and we're as secular as it gets. I believe our marriage values are similar to most liberal and western couples.
> 
> ...


You realize you came to an internet forum to decide if your wife shopping and not answering the phone was severe. So with very little detail we are trying to give you ideas. I know I asked you if any of the situations I posited might be true. You seem to think the whole thing is crazy out of bounds only on her end. So ok you are a perfectly reasonable husband married to a women who never feels like she's not doing enough. She never feels guilty.

That leaves cheating. So yes it is a very big deal. Have you checked your phone records? Is she missing other times? Do you have the family share my location on? Do you know she is going to the mall weekly or could she be going somewhere else? Is she alone at the mall? 

I do know how you handle this will make a lasting impression on your marriage. Seems you got very angry and she's sorry. So perhaps now she knows how much the lying impacts you. I don't like lying and our marriage practices pretty much radical honesty but I don't think I'd get this upset if I caught my husband in a small lie. I'd more wonder why he felt the need to lie? I'd try to understand what his motivations might be. How he felt like he couldn't talk to me about something honestly. And to be honest after being on this site for too many years I"d do some quiet checking for cheating.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> She was caught grabbing a little extra alone time and panicked. Apparently, she feels she is only allowed so much 'me time'.


Sounds like it is self imposed. If she feels guilty she can lie to her parents about why she is an hour late getting the kids. Makes no sense to lie to hubby who could not give a crap as she goes weekly any way.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

My only issue with the incident is why come home talking about her workload. It all seemed a bit much. OP already said he asked his wife if he ever made her feel she couldn’t have some me time and she said no. So what’s so hard about a quick text or call saying heading to mall, I’ll pick up kids from there. To ignore your spouses calls or texts because you need me time, seems off but to then go into theatrics about stressful workload is odd. 

I get suspicious about elaborate explanations. It’s like on the detective shows, that the culprit goes into such detail to explain themselves that it raises the investigators suspicions. Now before some of you get all bent out of shape, I’m not saying she’s like a criminal or that she was at the mall with someone. just that it seemed like a bit much to hide a little me time shopping. I do agree with the others that you need to work on improving communication with each other so that both of you can voice your needs, wants, and desires without fear or judgment.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Divinely Favored said:


> The parents regularly get the kids...but why lie to your husband about where you are? Wonfer if she could be feeling unseen and is enjoying being doted on by boys in the mall that are there checking out the girls?
> 
> I could understand her feeling guilty about being caught in a lie especially if it involved getting ego kobbles by younger males checking her out at the mall.. Never know.


In alcoholic homes, because the need by the child to protect the parent, you develop a guilt complex even when you've done nothing wrong. 
Personal questions, even harmless ones, end up having to be answered evasively because you feel like you're doing something wrong when you're answering questions.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

tlsntlsn said:


> Appreciate your perspective. I tried to provide whatever details and context people asked me to provide. Yes, I do think she's stressed, probably on par with how the average working mom is (no more, no less). I do chip in pretty heavily in the house chords, while maintaining an extremely demanding career. She'll be the first to admit that I have less Me time than her, I rarely go out (definitely not without her), don't have too many hobbies and my life is dedicated to family and work as I consider myself a fairly involved father.
> Visiting the mall for a couple of hours is not a rare occasion for her and happens on average once a week. This is the first time she hid and lied about it.


Why the change then?

If she goes to the mall on average of once a week, why did she have to lye about it


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Unless she has a toxic 'friend' at work? "What? You always tell you husband where you go, how long you'll be? I don't! You should keep a little mystery in your life! Don't kowtow to your husband! Live a little!"


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Mr.Married said:


> Seems to be a lot of high emotions over something so trivial.


If you are a very honest person lying isnt trivial. It's about trust. If you can lie about one thing you can lie about others.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

CrAzYdOgLaDy said:


> Could the reason be something as simple as she didn't tell you because she was looking for your Christmas presents. She was doing some Christmas shopping?


Then she could just say she was going Christmas shopping.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> Unless she has a toxic 'friend' at work? "What? You always tell you husband where you go, how long you'll be? I don't! You should keep a little mystery in your life! Don't kowtow to your husband! Live a little!"


Friends like this destroy relationships


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> Unless she has a toxic 'friend' at work? "What? You always tell you husband where you go, how long you'll be? I don't! You should keep a little mystery in your life! Don't kowtow to your husband! Live a little!"


Sadly, that happens way to many times. Your wife hanging around with a recent divorcee, or a WW can be very bad for your marriage. Then you have the I’m a strong independent womyn types who’s forever single. “You’re going to call your husband to tell him you’re going to the mall? What are you his child?” Woman think some of the same things. If you’re hanging out with single friend that’s a player type. They know to keep close tabs on their husband if someone like that is hanging with their husband.


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## Landofblue (May 28, 2019)

If it were me, and I couldn’t get it out of my head I would talk to mall security and see if there was a way to let me look at mall security tapes for those 2 hours to see if she was with anyone.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

She just needs some time to herself to do things for herself. That's all this is about. She's just feeling a little trapped and weary of keeping the plates in the air. You guys need to have a babysitter so she can take a day off occasionally.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> She just needs some time to herself to do things for herself. That's all this is about. She's just feeling a little trapped and weary of keeping the plates in the air. You guys need to have a babysitter so she can take a day off occasionally.


These are pure incorrect conjecture sentences.

According to OP, she does get time to herself. 

They do have a babysitter. 

Adults communicate in an adult like manner to their partners. She already goes to the mall by herself at least once a week. There was no need to lie to her husband.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

tlsntlsn said:


> I lost my empathy to her and been a different person/husband to her this whole week.





tlsntlsn said:


> I do chip in pretty heavily in the house chords, *while maintaining an extremely demanding career.* She'll be the first to admit that* I have less Me time than her,* I rarely go out (definitely not without her), don't have too many hobbies and my life is dedicated to family and work as I consider myself a fairly involved father.





tlsntlsn said:


> The pole was designed to help me get my sanity back as I've been agonizing about this for a week now. I'm not the same person this past week and this whole incident turned things for the worse.


I think it's pretty obvious why the OP's wife fibbed. It's hard to be married to a saint for 12 looong years. It is equally hard to have a spouse be so dependent on you.


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## DLC (Sep 19, 2021)

I voted for #2. To me, it wasn’t quite a white lie, it’s smaller enough that I wouldn’t care. But it needs to be stopped. The reason why she thinks she had to lie about that needs to be addressed.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Blondilocks said:


> I think it's pretty obvious why the OP's wife fibbed. It's hard to be married to a saint for 12 looong years. It is equally hard to have a spouse be so dependent on you.


Really? Now it’s HIS fault she lied and went somewhere she didn’t need to lie about?
No way! Her behavior is only her responsibility. 

He doesn’t get penalized for being a good husband.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Luckylucky said:


> eh, staying out fishing overnight? Not the same thing. What you describe might take a week to plan, and you’d let her know in advance. I sense some major tit-for-tat here in all of your posts, and a push for punishment. If OP is THAT GUY, it’s a worry.


Oh yeah, that's it. I'm that guy.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Luckylucky said:


> Yes I’m assuming. He has avoided really giving details about what her day to day life is like, whether she has any outlet outside her husband and kids, so I’m assuming, based on his information, that she doesn’t get to do this often.
> 
> I’m also assuming that you’re very very angry about this and that she needs to be punished. ‘Get her for this, now!’
> 
> Why am I assuming this?


I don't know, why? Seriously.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Beach123 said:


> Really? Now it’s HIS fault she lied and went somewhere she didn’t need to lie about?
> No way! Her behavior is only her responsibility.
> 
> He doesn’t get penalized for being a good husband.


I didn't say it was his fault. For some reason, his wife felt the need to tell a lie about something innocuous. I'll let you be the arbiter of what constitutes a good husband. 

However; even you must admit that there is something really strange about how this has been handled by the two of them in the aftermath. She can barely function and he's questioning his sanity. Okey dokey.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

tlsntlsn said:


> This is the first time she hid and lied about it.





Blondilocks said:


> However; even you must admit that there is something really strange about how this has been handled by the two of them in the aftermath. She can barely function and he's questioning his sanity. Okey dokey.


Alot of us Tamers are tainted, but we are also often correct.

If she goes to the mall often, lying and making a production out of this trip seems strange. Maybe she was planning for something, maybe it wasn't racy lingerie but a sexy dress for an upcoming date, maybe it was a gift for another man. I find it strange and think there was something up with this, especially when you couple it with being non-responsive to communication during this time.

Maybe she would lie more if you asked her about what she bought.... I'd be checking out the prices of the items and comparing that to charge totals.

Have you ever checked the phone bill to see who she calls / messages?

I would do a little recon, but if you find nothing, I would never bring it up again. The credo goes: eyes open... mouth shut. If there is something strange, you'll never find out by asking about it...liars will lie, and now you know she has full capability to lie.

This being the first time you caught her has nothing to do with whether or not she's done it before. In fact, just that it happened likely means it is not the first time.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

tlsntlsn said:


> Appreciate your perspective. I tried to provide whatever details and context people asked me to provide. Yes, I do think she's stressed, probably on par with how the average working mom is (no more, no less). I do chip in pretty heavily in the house chords, while maintaining an extremely demanding career. She'll be the first to admit that I have less Me time than her, I rarely go out (definitely not without her), don't have too many hobbies and my life is dedicated to family and work as I consider myself a fairly involved father.
> Visiting the mall for a couple of hours is not a rare occasion for her and happens on average once a week. This is the first time she hid and lied about it.


I think since your mindset is that you don't go do things if you're a family person, and she needs to go do things because she's not you, she may just not like to have to have a confrontation or a guilt trip every time she takes an hour to herself and gets away. I think where this is a comfortable lifestyle for you, she needs a break from it sometimes and feels a little trapped and smothered. I hope she has some friends she can visit and talk to, ways to get away without dragging the kids with her every time.

Maybe you should both take more time for yourself.


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## Djani1979 (Jan 2, 2022)

Have you found out what exactly did she get at the mall? What items?


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## Robert the Truce (Nov 29, 2021)

tlsntlsn said:


> Hello -
> 
> New to this forum so hoping for a friendly audience and advice.
> I've been married for 12+ years to my wife and it's been as normal and as stable as it gets, 2 kids and the whole deal.
> ...


I think there is a big problem. your wife found it necessary to lie to you about a trip to the shops. that you seem to think this trip was a big deal it might be that she feels smothered


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