# Flirting Limits



## GoodyGracie

Is there such a thing as an acceptable level of flirting when a person is married? What would you consider to be "harmless" friendly banter, and what would be over the line?


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## Married but Happy

It's too difficult to define a line (and it's fuzzy in every case), and every couple will have their own interpretation. There is certainly harmless flirting IMO, that is not intended to go anywhere - just fun or flattering banter. And there is flirting where the intention may be to seduce someone, and most married people would not be okay with that!


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## Openminded

If this is related to your other thread? What your husband is doing is not flirting.


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## Affaircare

@GoodyGracie, 

Here is my two cents--just my own personal opinion. You are asking this question from the wrong point of view. The way you are asking this (or your hubby is asking this) is like "How close to the fire can I dance before I get burned by the fire?" ...and then people say an inch, a half inch a quarter inch...and argue about how close you can come to fire! 

Instead look at it like this: why would you want to be close to fire? How come you aren't asking "How do I STAY AWAY from fire? How do I put more distance between me...and flames? How do I learn to live without fire?" In other words, instead of asking "How close to unfaithfulness can I come and still be able to claim I'm faithful?" why not ask "How far away from unfaithfulness can I possibly get?" "How do I learn to live 100% faithfully?" and "How do I put distance between me and even the appearance of infidelity?" 

The way this question is asked, it might be "flirting" to one person (an introvert) and not flirting to another (an extrovert) and all you've got is a bunch of opinions. Instead, I have to ask...why is he wanting to flirt with anyone other than you? He made a promise in his marriage vows to "forsake all others"... so why's he so anxious to get as close to going over the edge as possible? Why not figure out how to get as far away from flirting as possible? Why not learn about what faithful looks like and then learn how to live like that?

Yeah--this question is backward!


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## GoodyGracie

Only tangentially related. I had a conversation with a friend about flirting and what's over the line in my opinion, and my friend feels that married people should strictly limit interactions with people to whom one may become attracted, just to necessary work-related conversations. I feel there is an "ok" level of flirting that is only intended as friendly banter, still making it clear that nothing will come of it.


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## C.C. says ...

I’m the jealous type so if I was married, I probably wouldn’t like my husband flirting with anyone. If it was harmless and I didn’t know about it, I’d be better off. But if I _did _know about it, I’d be pretty upset with any sort of flirting in front of me. It’s disrespectful. My face turns all red. Not a fun time.


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## GoodyGracie

Affaircare said:


> @GoodyGracie,
> 
> Here is my two cents--just my own personal opinion. You are asking this question from the wrong point of view. The way you are asking this (or your hubby is asking this) is like "How close to the fire can I dance before I get burned by the fire?" ...and then people say an inch, a half inch a quarter inch...and argue about how close you can come to fire!
> 
> Instead look at it like this: why would you want to be close to fire? How come you aren't asking "How do I STAY AWAY from fire? How do I put more distance between me...and flames? How do I learn to live without fire?" In other words, instead of asking "How close to unfaithfulness can I come and still be able to claim I'm faithful?" why not ask "How far away from unfaithfulness can I possibly get?" "How do I learn to live 100% faithfully?" and "How do I put distance between me and even the appearance of infidelity?"
> 
> The way this question is asked, it might be "flirting" to one person (an introvert) and not flirting to another (an extrovert) and all you've got is a bunch of opinions. Instead, I have to ask...why is he wanting to flirt with anyone other than you? He made a promise in his marriage vows to "forsake all others"... so why's he so anxious to get as close to going over the edge as possible? Why not figure out how to get as far away from flirting as possible? Why not learn about what faithful looks like and then learn how to live like that?
> 
> Yeah--this question is backward!


This is not about my husband's infidelity. I'm asking to calibrate my own attitude, maybe I'm in the wrong when it comes to acceptable flirting. A former co-worker and I sometimes made "flirty" jokes on the job, just for laughs. Neither one of us ever made any attempt to "hang out" after work, or socialize in any way outside of the job. Here's an example: My husband gave me a bouquet of specialty roses on our first Valentine's Day together, and 15 years later, he sent me an identical bouquet of roses at my work. All the girls came to my desk to ooh and aah over the bouquet. My flirty co-worker came over and said "Damn, I'm going to have to work harder to steal you away from him!". My co-worker had not ever tried to "steal me away", but he _was_ the type of person that wanted to be the center of attention in any group of people. It was just an attention grabbing thing to say. I don't like to be out-smartalecked, so I replied "Yeah, well you're a diiiiiistant second, gotta step that game up, son". Just to talk crap. Nothing ever came of it. We send each other Christmas cards with pictures of our families on them, that's it. My friend thinks that's too edgy, I don't.


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## GoodyGracie

C.C. says ... said:


> I’m the jealous type so if I was married, I probably wouldn’t like my husband flirting with anyone. If it was harmless and I didn’t know about it, I’d be better off. But if I _did _know about it, I’d be pretty upset with any sort of flirting in front of me. It’s disrespectful. My face turns all red. Not a fun time.


I definitely agree that flirting with someone else in front of your spouse is unacceptable.


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## sokillme

GoodyGracie said:


> Is there such a thing as an acceptable level of flirting when a person is married? What would you consider to be "harmless" friendly banter, and what would be over the line?


I think it's bad form and disrespectful myself. I always thought married people who do that look like asses.


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## sokillme

Affaircare said:


> @GoodyGracie,
> 
> Here is my two cents--just my own personal opinion. You are asking this question from the wrong point of view. The way you are asking this (or your hubby is asking this) is like "How close to the fire can I dance before I get burned by the fire?" ...and then people say an inch, a half inch a quarter inch...and argue about how close you can come to fire!
> 
> Instead look at it like this: why would you want to be close to fire? How come you aren't asking "How do I STAY AWAY from fire? How do I put more distance between me...and flames? How do I learn to live without fire?" In other words, instead of asking "How close to unfaithfulness can I come and still be able to claim I'm faithful?" why not ask "How far away from unfaithfulness can I possibly get?" "How do I learn to live 100% faithfully?" and "How do I put distance between me and even the appearance of infidelity?"
> 
> The way this question is asked, it might be "flirting" to one person (an introvert) and not flirting to another (an extrovert) and all you've got is a bunch of opinions. Instead, I have to ask...why is he wanting to flirt with anyone other than you? He made a promise in his marriage vows to "forsake all others"... so why's he so anxious to get as close to going over the edge as possible? Why not figure out how to get as far away from flirting as possible? Why not learn about what faithful looks like and then learn how to live like that?
> 
> Yeah--this question is backward!


Such a wise post.


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## Divinely Favored

GoodyGracie said:


> I definitely agree that flirting with someone else in front of your spouse is unacceptable.


Proper would be to not do anything that is no acceptable to do in front of your spouse. That mindset leads to what they dont know about won't hurt them.


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## Diana7

Flirting of any sort unless you are both single is wrong in my opinion. Its shows immaturity and a real disrespect to your partner.


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## Nailhead

I do not flirt in my social life. It is out of respect for my W. I certainly do not flirt at work. This day in age many things can be misconstrued. Work talk remains on work related subjects or perhaps current news events.


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## Emerging Buddhist

Affaircare said:


> The way this question is asked, it might be "flirting" to one person (an introvert) and not flirting to another (an extrovert) and all you've got is a bunch of opinions. Instead, I have to ask...why is he wanting to flirt with anyone other than you? He made a promise in his marriage vows to "forsake all others"... so why's he so anxious to get as close to going over the edge as possible? Why not figure out how to get as far away from flirting as possible? Why not learn about what faithful looks like and then learn how to live like that?
> 
> Yeah--this question is backward!


Too close to the fire too often builds scar tissue that desensitizes poor behavior for sure...

We lose sight of life in too many ways because resistance to being mindful is built practicing the wrong things... we do become how we live, loosing sight because as we water down our understanding of desire it becomes a fatal collection of "arsenic" reasoning... eventually the small doses of poor behavior will poison.

Flirting outside of one's marriage falls into this in my mind.


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## Openminded

No flirting, period.


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## Affaircare

GoodyGracie said:


> This is not about my husband's infidelity. I'm asking to calibrate my own attitude, maybe I'm in the wrong when it comes to acceptable flirting. A former co-worker and I sometimes made "flirty" jokes on the job, just for laughs. Neither one of us ever made any attempt to "hang out" after work, or socialize in any way outside of the job. Here's an example: My husband gave me a bouquet of specialty roses on our first Valentine's Day together, and 15 years later, he sent me an identical bouquet of roses at my work. All the girls came to my desk to ooh and aah over the bouquet. My flirty co-worker came over and said "Damn, I'm going to have to work harder to steal you away from him!". My co-worker had not ever tried to "steal me away", but he _was_ the type of person that wanted to be the center of attention in any group of people. It was just an attention grabbing thing to say. I don't like to be out-smartalecked, so I replied "Yeah, well you're a diiiiiistant second, gotta step that game up, son". Just to talk crap. Nothing ever came of it. We send each other Christmas cards with pictures of our families on them, that's it. My friend thinks that's too edgy, I don't.


So @GoodyGracie I will ask you the same questions in the same way. 

Instead of wondering "Hey, how close can I get to cheating before it's cheating?" so that you can walk RIGHT UP TO THE PRECIPICE and tiptoe while you lean forward but not fall...

Why would you want to be close to edge? How come you aren't asking "How do I STAY AWAY from edge of the cliff? How do I put more distance between me...and cliff? How do I learn to live FAITHFULLY?" 

The way you ask this question, you are going to get 100 different responses from 100 different people, and like I said all you'll get is a bunch of opinions that may or may not differ from yours. Instead, I have to ask...why DO YOU want to flirt with anyone other than your husband? YOU also made a promise in your marriage vows to "forsake all others"... so why are you so anxious to get as close to going over the edge as possible? Why not figure out how to get as far away from flirting as possible? Why not learn about what faithful looks like and then learn how to live like that?

If you want my opinion, the example you gave is definitely flirting, and I agree with your friend, it's too edgy because you are entertaining the attentions of another person when you made a promise to "forsake all others." Think about it--forsaking all others means that 100% is focused on your spouse and him alone! That leaves 0% for anyone else. ZERO!! Yet you are giving a little to another. Now you may think "Yeah, but it's just a little sliver" but that's not living faithfully and that's not living your promise. I would think you would want to be a woman who honors her promises. Okay if that's who you want to be, then that means you have to live by what you promised! 

So instead of "how far can I flirt before it's going to far?" I would recommend that you begin to study what EXACTLY fidelity, faithfulness, and trustworthiness, and integrity, and virtue mean. What does being a Faithful Wife look like? What are your values and what are the standards to which you hold your own self? And once you've studied all that...how are you going to LIVE that? What are you going to DO so that you are a living example of faithfulness?


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

Flirting when married only leads to trouble. Take it from one who knows first hand. How my FWW got started.


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## Diana7

GoodyGracie said:


> I definitely agree that flirting with someone else in front of your spouse is unacceptable.


or even when your spouse isnt there.


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## Diana7

GoodyGracie said:


> Is there such a thing as an acceptable level of flirting when a person is married? What would you consider to be "harmless" friendly banter, and what would be over the line?


I think that most of us know the difference between sexual flirting and just being friendly and chatty.


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## Untrusting

GoodyGracie said:


> Is there such a thing as an acceptable level of flirting when a person is married? What would you consider to be "harmless" friendly banter, and what would be over the line?


I personally do not think it’s cool to flirt if you’re married. I was raised in a conservative house, and I grew up with the idea that men are either coworkers, your family, or your husband/boyfriend. Some people can have opposite sex friends and that’s all well and good for them. The line is wherever you and your partner have established it, if you’ve talked about it. In the case that you haven’t, I would say the line is never do anything you feel you need to hide from your spouse. If you wouldn’t say it right there in front of them, don’t say it at all.


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## DownByTheRiver

GoodyGracie said:


> Is there such a thing as an acceptable level of flirting when a person is married? What would you consider to be "harmless" friendly banter, and what would be over the line?


If a person still feels like flirting, they don't need to be married.


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## SunCMars

Affaircare said:


> @GoodyGracie,
> 
> Here is my two cents--just my own personal opinion. You are asking this question from the wrong point of view. The way you are asking this (or your hubby is asking this) is like "How close to the fire can I dance before I get burned by the fire?" ...and then people say an inch, a half inch a quarter inch...and argue about how close you can come to fire!
> 
> Instead look at it like this: why would you want to be close to fire? How come you aren't asking "How do I STAY AWAY from fire? How do I put more distance between me...and flames? How do I learn to live without fire?" In other words, instead of asking "How close to unfaithfulness can I come and still be able to claim I'm faithful?" why not ask "How far away from unfaithfulness can I possibly get?" "How do I learn to live 100% faithfully?" and "How do I put distance between me and even the appearance of infidelity?"
> 
> The way this question is asked, it might be "flirting" to one person (an introvert) and not flirting to another (an extrovert) and all you've got is a bunch of opinions. Instead, I have to ask...why is he wanting to flirt with anyone other than you? He made a promise in his marriage vows to "forsake all others"... so why's he so anxious to get as close to going over the edge as possible? Why not figure out how to get as far away from flirting as possible? Why not learn about what faithful looks like and then learn how to live like that?
> 
> Yeah--this question is backward!


Ah yes....

But, what person who is left out in the cold does not appreciate the warmth given off by an OSF?

That is the cold moth's downfall. 

Seeking the flame that eventually incinerates a marriage.


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## SunCMars

DownByTheRiver said:


> If a person still feels like flirting, they don't need to be married.


They often cannot help that feeling, yay, they should not act on it.

Many extroverts are natural flirts.


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## DownByTheRiver

SunCMars said:


> They often cannot help that feeling, yay, they should not act on it.
> 
> Many extroverts are natural flirts.


Many introverts are too when they get out. I have a close friend who is definitely an introvert, but she is very come-ony. She doesn't go up to them and talk, but she makes eye contact and smiles a lot.


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## Waggs

Affaircare said:


> @GoodyGracie,
> 
> Here is my two cents--just my own personal opinion. You are asking this question from the wrong point of view. The way you are asking this (or your hubby is asking this) is like "How close to the fire can I dance before I get burned by the fire?" ...and then people say an inch, a half inch a quarter inch...and argue about how close you can come to fire!
> 
> Instead look at it like this: why would you want to be close to fire? How come you aren't asking "How do I STAY AWAY from fire? How do I put more distance between me...and flames? How do I learn to live without fire?" In other words, instead of asking "How close to unfaithfulness can I come and still be able to claim I'm faithful?" why not ask "How far away from unfaithfulness can I possibly get?" "How do I learn to live 100% faithfully?" and "How do I put distance between me and even the appearance of infidelity?"
> 
> The way this question is asked, it might be "flirting" to one person (an introvert) and not flirting to another (an extrovert) and all you've got is a bunch of opinions. Instead, I have to ask...why is he wanting to flirt with anyone other than you? He made a promise in his marriage vows to "forsake all others"... so why's he so anxious to get as close to going over the edge as possible? Why not figure out how to get as far away from flirting as possible? Why not learn about what faithful looks like and then learn how to live like that?
> 
> Yeah--this question is backward!


 if you wouldn't do it with your partner there then you should not do it with out them there


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## BigDaddyNY

GoodyGracie said:


> I definitely agree that flirting with someone else in front of your spouse is unacceptable.


Old post, I know... If you feel this way, then why would it be okay when you are not in front of your spouse? Hiding it is good, but in the open is bad? Everything seems really backwards here. No flirting when in a committed and monogamous relationship is okay. It is just step one into something more serious and intimate.


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## CatOnAHotTinRoof

BigDaddyNY said:


> Old post, I know... If you feel this way, then why would it be okay when you are not in front of your spouse? Hiding it is good, but in the open is bad? Everything seems really backwards here. No flirting when in a committed and monogamous relationship is okay. It is just step one into something more serious and intimate.


Agree! Nope. Feel it’s super disrespectful and a gateway to testing the waters.


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## Young at Heart

Affaircare said:


> So @GoodyGracie I will ask you the same questions in the same way.
> 
> Instead of wondering "Hey, how close can I get to cheating before it's cheating?" so that you can walk RIGHT UP TO THE PRECIPICE and tiptoe while you lean forward but not fall...
> 
> Why would you want to be close to edge? How come you aren't asking "How do I STAY AWAY from edge of the cliff? How do I put more distance between me...and cliff? How do I learn to live FAITHFULLY?"
> 
> The way you ask this question, you are going to get 100 different responses from 100 different people, and like I said all you'll get is a bunch of opinions that may or may not differ from yours. Instead, I have to ask...why DO YOU want to flirt with anyone other than your husband? YOU also made a promise in your marriage vows to "forsake all others"... so why are you so anxious to get as close to going over the edge as possible? Why not figure out how to get as far away from flirting as possible? Why not learn about what faithful looks like and then learn how to live like that?
> 
> If you want my opinion, the example you gave is definitely flirting, and I agree with your friend, it's too edgy because you are entertaining the attentions of another person when you made a promise to "forsake all others." Think about it--forsaking all others means that 100% is focused on your spouse and him alone! That leaves 0% for anyone else. ZERO!! Yet you are giving a little to another. Now you may think "Yeah, but it's just a little sliver" but that's not living faithfully and that's not living your promise. I would think you would want to be a woman who honors her promises. Okay if that's who you want to be, then that means you have to live by what you promised!
> 
> So instead of "how far can I flirt before it's going to far?" I would recommend that you begin to study what EXACTLY fidelity, faithfulness, and trustworthiness, and integrity, and virtue mean. What does being a Faithful Wife look like? What are your values and what are the standards to which you hold your own self? And once you've studied all that...how are you going to LIVE that? What are you going to DO so that you are a living example of faithfulness?


You are very wise. I hope that the OP listens to you. "....So instead of "how far can I flirt before it's going to far?" I would recommend that you begin to study what EXACTLY fidelity, faithfulness, and trustworthiness, and integrity, and virtue mean. What does being a Faithful Wife look like?...."

I feel that too many people are struggling between their conscious and subconscious as to being faithful or not. Sometimes they "test" themselves by going right out to the edge to see if they "pass" or "fail." Sometimes failing the test is a cry for help directed to their spouse. Sometimes they want the marriage saved by their spouse intervening and taking control. Sometimes they want their marriage to blow up and their spouse to end the marriage because they don't have the courage or strength to end the marriage.

Whenever, I see someone post that they went out in a romantic setting with someone, had drinks with them, got a little too drunk, and then "one thing lead to another," but they would never have intentionally been unfaithful, I laugh as they really were eagerly sliding down a slippery slope step by step hoping to see whether they would pass or fail their test. After they failed it, but can't admit what happened was totally predictable.

Of course mild harmless flirting is not a morality struggle between one's conscious and subconscious self. I think that the OP has a lot to think about and figure out.


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