# Speechless



## jennifer1986 (Feb 4, 2012)

I do not have a good come-back for this. 

My H basically says "sorry, I can't satisfy you, you can go do whatever you want, find someone else". 

(1) He doesn't mean divorce. The HD/LD situation does not bother him and he is fine if I am fine. 
(2) This is passive agressive strategy which he excels in. Basically I am left with a sock in my mouth. I cannot say "sure". 
(3) I am not bringing up the topic of sex at all unless I get completely frustated by his put-down remarks. Only then do I point out there are many areas that can use improvement in this marriage, including sex. That's when I get the remark above. 

I know on this forum many LD W have made similar remarks to the HD H, but u see, it's not the same. This sounds like sexual discrimination, but female and male are different. I absolutely cannot (and have no interest in doing so) force my H to have sex with me based on our physiology. As a woman I also have major trouble envisioning the idea of some other guy satisfying me. Therefore I can only swallow the frustration...


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## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

I apologize for not being up-to-date with your story. But why is he not wanting to have sex with you?


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Well, sounds like he is following Dan Savage's advice, which is if you are not willing to satisfy your partner sexually, you need to give them permission to get it elsewhere.

But you don't want it elsewhere, do you?

Alas, ball's in your court. Can you live in this marriage as it is? Can you accept some kind of open marriage relationship? Or do you need to leave?

All hard, hard decisions, and I am sorry. For the record, he sounds like a jerk, but that's not really helpful...


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

well you realsie that they sat that thinking or knowing you would never act on it. and if you did they would pitch a fit.

tough choice staying married if your not satisfied.
I would say start distancing yourself and plan on divorcing.

if you have children thats make any type of decision that much harder.

sorry I really didn't tell you anything you haven't thought about a thousand times.

good luck .


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

jennifer1986 said:


> I do not have a good come-back for this.
> 
> My H basically says "sorry, I can't satisfy you, you can go do whatever you want, find someone else".
> 
> ...


I'm sorry, but is this the same guy who took you to church and when the subject of sex came up in the sermon, noted that your sexual desires showed a lack of self control? How does creating an open marriage square with that?

I think you need to tell him that making that statement has caused you to question whether you two have the same ideas of what marriage means and that you need to think about your relationship. Then do that - weigh all the pros and cons, figure out what you need and what you can live with.


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## Lionelhutz (Feb 2, 2012)

It does seem to be common for LD spouse to make reference to getting it elsewhere. 

As others have noted, it is probably said because they know it would not be acted on.

For me, I would begin my plans to end the marriage if given permission to cheat.


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## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

Tall Average Guy said:


> I'm sorry, but is this the same guy who took you to church and when the subject of sex came up in the sermon, noted that your sexual desires showed a lack of self control? How does creating an open marriage square with that?


Did he really do that? Jesus Christmas...


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Blue Moon said:


> Did he really do that? Jesus Christmas...


I wish I was. From her post on May 22:



> The sermon got worse...the pastor started going on about "discipline", actually he was talking about "saving all for the person you love/will love the most" (WOW), and my H said to me "see, you've got to have more control, wanting too much sex is lack of self-control".
> 
> The ultimate attack on HD from LD, backed up by holy authority


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

Sorry but I would be like "OK, I'm going to go find some 12' stud to tear me up, talk to you later.."

Of course this is coming from an HD husband with an LD/ND wife..


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

Tell your husband not to make statements like that unless he wants you to call his bluff.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Is it wrong that I am cheering for her to call his bluff?


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Jen,

Sorry. Many of us men folk are ina similar place. We usually refer to our lower drive partners as doing "chore sex" for us. Their not really into it and do it to shut us up for a while. It's OK for a while but then that wears off


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## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

Tall Average Guy said:


> I wish I was. From her post on May 22:


That's ridiculous. I've never in my life heard of a husband hiding behind scripture to flee his wife's vagina. If anything, I'd expect him to pull scripture about how it's her duty to please him or something. This is just bizarre.


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

lamaga said:


> Is it wrong that I am cheering for her to call his bluff?


Probably, but that would make me wrong, too. I hate this kind of passive-agressive crap. So painful and hurtful.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

True, GTDad, and I was joking, but honestly? The only way to cut thru this kind of passive-aggressive crap is to act, and to act boldly.

He's thrown down the gauntlet.


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## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

I'm typically not one for game playing, but in this case you'd be well within your right to go on a date with another guy or at least set up an account on a dating site. If he expressed that he didn't like it, you could turn it around like "You told me to get my needs elsewhere. Did you think I'd do so without dinner and a movie? What kind of lady do you think I am?"

But yeah, outside of that, it's just about divorce time. There's one thing for him to be stubborn, but to be so far gone that he's willing to share you with another guy, or bluffing in that manner, is troubling.


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

Is there a chance that he's gay?
I ask because his sexual behavior, LD & all, is the antithesis of that of a heterosexual male. 
Something just seems off about his seemingly total disregard of sexual needs & he seems very angry about it.


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## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

lamaga said:


> True, GTDad, and I was joking, but honestly? The only way to cut thru this kind of passive-aggressive crap is to act, and to act boldly.
> 
> He's thrown down the gauntlet.


Exactly.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

That's what I thought on the previous post -- this is a closeted gay guy.


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

lamaga said:


> True, GTDad, and I was joking, but honestly? The only way to cut thru this kind of passive-aggressive crap is to act, and to act boldly.
> 
> He's thrown down the gauntlet.


Yep. And to be clear, I was referring to her H's actions as P-A crap, not what you suggested. I agree, in my book this would very possibly be a deal-killer.


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## jennifer1986 (Feb 4, 2012)

Sorry, I don't like to repeat stuff to bore people. So I might not be clear. 

(1) My H is the ultimate homophobe. There is absolutely no chance he is gay. He is not masturbating. He does not watch porn. 
(2) He is not refusing to have sex with me. He is just not responsive unless he feels the need. O/W he would say several things
(a) What have you taken? Magic pill? You are "young and restless". 
(b) Don't you know it's a work day tomorrow?
(c) You need more self-control (as described in the Sunday church thread)
(d) Sorry I am too old (48) to satisfy you


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

GTdad said:


> Probably, but that would make me wrong, too. I hate this kind of passive-agressive crap. So painful and hurtful.


I'm cheering too. That's why I mentioned it. 

I would even prefer aggression to passive aggression.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Jennifer, the fact that he is the "ultimate homophobe" tells me all I need to know.

He's gay. I'm sorry, but he is. And he will never deal with it, and he will never have a satisfying sexlife. Is that the life you want?


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

lamaga said:


> Jennifer, the fact that he is the "ultimate homophobe" tells me all I need to know.
> 
> He's gay. I'm sorry, but he is. And he will never deal with it, and he will never have a satisfying sexlife. Is that the life you want?


Gotta agree, you had me at homophobe.
You know the saying, those that protest the loudest, usually are.


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## jennifer1986 (Feb 4, 2012)

Ha Ha Ha. I can assure you he's not gay. However, maybe he is secretly gay, but I can also assure you that he's never had that kind of encounter. 

Seriously though, he is straight. He is just a very self-righteous guy. He thinks homosexuality is sick. Strangely enough though, he had said in past he would not mind seeing me with another woman. That's just the way lots of males think, I am not bothered by that. But I tell him to not mention it during sex because I am also the ultimate straight female (although I do not find homosexuality offensive at all. I am just not interested in another female).

This self-righteousness shows up everywhere. That's why I am never good enough and always at fault. Sex is the same.


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

jennifer1986 said:


> This self-righteousness shows up everywhere.


Except on that Asian vacation you mention in your first thread. You may well have some serious boundary issues, at least as evidenced by that thread, but there is no denying that your husband is a real piece of work, gay or not.

I think maybe you could use a dose of healthy self-righteousness yourself. Don't tolerate this crap. It's wrong and destructive.


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

Jenn, I am sorry you are having this problem. I in the past would have jumped all over your man for not meeting your needs or being willing to please you in other ways if he wasn't aroused. But, I am currently in a new relationship and she is on me twice a day. I'm starting to wonder if this level of activity continues, if I will be able to survive (I'm only partially kidding). How HD are you? 

Finally, could this be a plumbing problem? He is almost 50. Could he have a little erectile dysfunction and might a little blue pill and scheduled fun time help out?? Just a thought....


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Jennifer, Jennifer, WAKE UP.

So he thinks homosexuality is "sick" (which it isn't, btw, so that's a problem) but he'd like to see you with another woman?

Stop blaming yourself. He is one messed up piece of man, regardless of his sexual orientation. Not your fault. You didn't cause it, and I'm pretty sure you cannot fix it.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Tell him his permission is not necessary. You've always had the ability to go elsewhere. What he's giving you is a choice between unfulfillment and loneliness with him or divorce. You need to make this clear to him. The choice is not really your's at all, but his. Whatever you decide, it won't involve adultary. If he is not interested in your most basic needs, the marriage is basically over and he hits the curb. If he wants to delegate his sexual duties to another, he can delegate all of his husbandly duties and you will reassign all husbandly privileges as well. In the ship of marriage, there are only crewmembers. This aint a cruiseship and he isn't on vacation. The ship is in danger and he needs to get off his #ss and help save the ship or you'll toss him overboard.


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## SprucHub (Jan 13, 2012)

Jennifer - the answer you are looking for is "it is not that you can't, it is that you won't. there is a big difference. I need this to make me happy and fulfilled, to feel like a woman, like an adult, and there is nothing wrong with lusting after the person you are married to or wanting things that are enjoyable. 48 is not too old, not wanting or being able to have sex is either who you are or attributable to a physical condition like low testosterone. not caring about what I want is wholly attributable to who you are, looking for reasons why I am wrong to want what I want is solely attributable to who you you are; being passive agressive and telling me to find someone else, as if I am a beneath you sex adict that is just looking to get off and not looking to have a complete marital relationship is wholly attributable to who you are. Get you head out of your *ss"


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## jennifer1986 (Feb 4, 2012)

Well, the reason he says "I can't satisfy you" kind of goes

(1) although we've been married 20 yrs, I only recently discovered a G-spot/vaginal O. Yup, hard to believe, but all the years our sex kind of involved me getting a clitoral o (with his thing rubbing me) and then him getting the o inside. When I finally realized how much stronger and REAL a vaginal O is I tried to talk to him about it. I didn't say there was anything wrong with our previous way. He saw how much my body reacted differently (his words were "wow you can break someone with that force") and he knew I enjoyed it. I tell him we can work on this slowly since it requires a certain amount of finesse--I would need some help from him (finger stimulation) with him inside me, blah blah, and once he said it was too much work (his exact words were probably "you are so difficult"). I am gradually giving up on this idea of some sexual fulfillment before I die. If he reaches his O first, then he practically falls asleep and leaves me hanging (you can tell he has no interest to help me with fingers as he dozes off). If he tries to stimulate me enough sometimes he loses his erection then I again become the "difficult one". 
(2) While I still had this hope of sexual fulfillment every time we had sex I would get excited (like the saying "the more you do the more you want") and ask him the next day (because I imagine every time we would improve a little), once rejected I waited for next day, but he would brush me off until perhaps 5 days later and by then it's like I have to start the engine again. 
(3) Oh, of course sexual fulfillment(or the lack of it) is not a basis for divorce. I can use my time wisely for other endeavors. He would point out I need to spend more time tidying up house, supervising kids, etc.

So, it's not that he doesn't want to have sex with me. It's that he can only have sex a certain way, a certain frequency, and when he sees I sometimes get unsatisfied, he throws me the ball "if you are not happy here then go have it somewhere else".


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

Jen I agree with the others. Its well documented that people who are that vociferously against homosexual behavior have repressed tendencies themselves.


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## flnative (Jul 16, 2011)

I don't know if the guy is gay or not, don't really care. However, I never understood the "homophobe" is really gay argument. 

If someone hates broccoli, fish those stupid electric cars, deer hunting, whatever, does that really mean the actually love those things? Why does dislike for homosexuality really mean one likes it, but it doesn't go for other things? If woman says he hates giving blowjobs or swallowing, or anal sex, does she really love it? I never thought so but now I wonder....


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

jennifer1986 said:


> (3) Oh, of course sexual fulfillment(or the lack of it) is not a basis for divorce. I can use my time wisely for other endeavors. He would point out I need to spend more time tidying up house, supervising kids, etc.


It is not just about sexual fullfillment, though that is a big part of it. It is about his unwillingness to meet your needs. He is being selfish, not willing to change to do something for you, and then making you feel guilty about your very normal and natural desires. Just look at what you wrote above - he does not want to expend effort giving you what you want, but then suggests that you take that extra time and do things around the house that help him. I am sorry but he is being seflish.

Add to it his explicit permission to get sex from someone else and I find his brand of self righteousness troubling.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Jen,
I read your most recent post as he's feeling like a failure because he cannot give you that O you desire. Of course you are excited, after so many years to discover a much higher level of orgasm, and he has trouble with the mechanics of being able to do it.

Huge ego blow. His other comments seem to say to me that he'd rather you not pressure him to do things he can't... go clean the house and stop pressuring me for sex -- he feels like a failure in the sex department. 

Other than trying a sex therapist, are you open to some books, different positions, sexual techniques, etc?

Right now, though, you are pretty hurt by his comments. IMO, it's him feeling frustrated \ hurt because he can't "do" what you want sexually. It's usually fixable. He can learn how.

But if he never does, will you be satisfied with that? Is mind blowing sex a dealbreaker? Does he think that? will you still love him if he can't learn how to do "that" everytime? Sometimes sex is vanilla, sometimes it fireworks. But the point of the experience should still be about connecting. Is it?

Hugs to you.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Being a homophobe does not mean he's gay. I'm something of a homophobe and I can assure you I'm not. Don't threadjack, if we want to have a homosexuality/homophobia debate start a new thread. 

OP you're in a tough spot. The passive aggressive thing would piss me off no end. I would sit him down and say something to the effect of, " So we're clear, you are giving me permission to get my sexual needs met by another man, you will not consider it cheating or a violation of our marriage? Additionally, you understand that I am NOT giving you the same permission. I am not giving you permission to have sex with anyone other than me, if you do I will consider it cheating and a violation of our marriage. I don't want to get my needs met by anyone other than you, but I do have them. Is this what you are really ok with? Is this what you really want?" I don't know if I would really go through with it, but I'd let him think I would. 

The bad part is what I described above will probably make it worse, drive the wedge deeper between you. Obviously if your needs were important to him he'd get a prescription for ED or testosterone treatment, if he's not willing to do what he's really telling you is that his embarrassment is more important to him than your needs. I don't know what you do with that. I think all you can do is give every effort you can to fix it and if you can't either move on or take him up on his offer.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

48 and he's too old?

I'm 50 and ready to go at least twice a week


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

And another thing, "Oh, of course sexual fulfillment(or the lack of it) is not a basis for divorce"

Wanna bet?


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## MrsOldNews (Feb 22, 2012)

deejov said:


> Jen,
> I read your most recent post as he's feeling like a failure because he cannot give you that O you desire. Of course you are excited, after so many years to discover a much higher level of orgasm, and he has trouble with the mechanics of being able to do it.
> 
> Huge ego blow. His other comments seem to say to me that he'd rather you not pressure him to do things he can't... go clean the house and stop pressuring me for sex -- he feels like a failure in the sex department.
> ...


He's not feeling like a failure he's feeling like a lazy Insensitive selfish a** IMO
I bet he's never even considered pleasing her for the sake of her getting off. This is all speculation I know, but I can tell you this Jennifer you must be one heck of a women to actually continue having sex with him after all he's said and done.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

jennifer1986 said:


> He is just a very self-righteous guy. He thinks homosexuality is sick.


The only reason I can think of for this kind of homophobia is that he is latently homosexual and is full of self-loathing.

Why would a man hate gays? I wish I was the only straight man in the world. 

Your husband needs to do some soul-searching. Perhaps he is gay, or he may have cuckold fantasies...something is going on.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

flnative said:


> I don't know if the guy is gay or not, don't really care. However, I never understood the "homophobe" is really gay argument.
> 
> If someone hates broccoli, fish those stupid electric cars, deer hunting, whatever, does that really mean the actually love those things? Why does dislike for homosexuality really mean one likes it, but it doesn't go for other things? If woman says he hates giving blowjobs or swallowing, or anal sex, does she really love it? I never thought so but now I wonder....


What reason would you have for being homophobic? Persumably you can justify each of the other dislikes, you don't like the taste of broccoli, deer hunting is cruel, electric cars cause traffic jams etc. How would you justify a dislike of the innate sexuality of another human being? 

We also have numerous examples of prominent homophobes being 'outed'. Ted Haggard, Larry Craig, George Rekers... the list goes on. There is a lot of empirical evidence to suggest that vocal homophobes are often trying to hide their own homosexuality.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

sigma1299 said:


> Being a homophobe does not mean he's gay. I'm something of a homophobe and I can assure you I'm not. Don't threadjack, if we want to have a homosexuality/homophobia debate start a new thread.


Don't respond to the threadjacker if you don't approve of threadjacking.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

johnnycomelately said:


> Don't respond to the threadjacker if you don't approve of threadjacking.


I didn't - I was stating my opinion that the OP's husband is not necessarily gay based on my own experiences and beliefs - not a debate about whether or not homophobia is an indication of homosexuality - and I won't engage that debate in this thread.


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## discouraged1 (Mar 16, 2010)

jennifer1986 said:


> I do not have a good come-back for this.
> 
> My H basically says "sorry, I can't satisfy you, you can go do whatever you want, find someone else".
> 
> ...


Not sure what exactly to say here because I am in the same situation. Wife doesn't tell me to go elsewhere but she does all of the same things your husband is doing. She knows I would call her bluff.
I can tell you that I am getting in shape physically and financially for the future as I can only see things getting worse or staying the same. I cannot tolerate it.
I want someone who shows affection (will look at me and touch me during sex, not mechanical), is loving, does the small things, and truly will enjoy my company.
My thoughts are you are only going to be able to handle it so long and then will come the breaking point.
So why don't we introduce our spouses to one another? :rofl:


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

LD spouses often seem to downplay the importance of sex, don't let him get away with it. He has to know that if he doesn't try and get to the bottom of his sexual issues you might leave him. 



discouraged1 said:


> My thoughts are you are only going to be able to handle it so long and then will come the breaking point.


He is right. The sex drive is controlled by one of the oldest parts of the brain, which is one of the reasons why it is hard to control. Unless he sorts it out you will slowly be driven crazy by frustration. 

You will feel resentful and it may well ultimately destroy your marriage.


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## jennifer1986 (Feb 4, 2012)

@discouraged1: I think we can form the support group No Affection From Spouse 
For those who say LD/HD is same bad situation for h or w...sorry, no. I was the LD ("in disguise", LD because of my H's hurtful comments and resentment), but whenever my h wanted sex, I either gave in or postponed it for less than 24 hrs. It's not like my v has a door i can lock and I just did not want to do that ( I am old-fashioned in the "duty" dept). But now if he says no, he CANNOT do it. It's different.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## flnative (Jul 16, 2011)

Not a "homophobe", just don't understand why someone can't say they don't agree with homosexuality without being called a homophobe. I don't agree with homosexuality, but don't hate the folks that are homosexual. Why can't I get the same respect. 

Done thread jacking now, but again how come calling this man a homosexual because he dislikes homosexuality isn't thread jacking? Can't we help without name calling?


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Well, not 'agreeing' with homosexuality is like not agreeing with black people. 

Done threadjacking too.


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## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

Man...

I have a huge ego too, but at some point I think I'd get over the whole different type of orgasm thing and start learning how to make you cum in other ways. Especially if it means I get to have tons of sex to try it.

If that's truly his rationale then I don't know if it's more crybabish or lazy.


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