# Wife hates receiving oral



## 54 always wanting more (Jul 11, 2021)

My wife loves to go down on me, But refuses to let me go down on her says she doesn't like and gets nothing out of it. I love the taste of the V from what I remember, I need help.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

The only help you really need is to learn to respect your wife's wishes. If she doesn't like something, you just let it go. In the grand scheme of things, it's not really a big deal.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Just get your cat to help.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

A lot of people here will tell you to accept this and live with it.

There are things you can accept and there are you cannot.

I won't be able to to love my wife and be with her if she refused me to orally please her.

Maybe you can talk yo your wife and ask her why she does not enjoy your oral. Does she not like the whole concept of oral sex or the way you are doing this? Does she masturbate or pleasure herself? Does she enjoy you stimulating her clit with your hand?


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## TurnedTurtle (May 15, 2019)

Are you clean shaven, or do you have a prickly face?


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

Has she never gotten anything out of it while with you? Could it be speed, technique? Are you responsive when she gives you feedback?


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## Skruddgemire (Mar 10, 2021)

romantic_dreamer said:


> A lot of people here will tell you to accept this and live with it.


Likely because we're under the daft notion that consent is important?



> There are things you can accept and there are you cannot.
> 
> I won't be able to to love my wife and be with her if she refused me to orally please her.


Why? Is tonging a vag so important to you that you would ignore everything else that initially attracted you? I mean, I rather doubt that you two met by you going up to her and saying "Hi! I'm looking for someone compatible, mind if I lick you to see if we are?"



> Maybe you can talk yo your wife and ask her why she does not enjoy your oral. Does she not like the whole concept of oral sex or the way you are doing this? Does she masturbate or pleasure herself? Does she enjoy you stimulating her clit with your hand?


In a lot of cases, it's not a problem with the physicality of it all, but a mental block. Remember that for the longest time...women have been told that their nether regions are filthy, dirty places. All the feminine hygiene products (Douches, sprays, even deodorants designed for "down there") all present an image that that area is "unclean". Not to mention that there are dozens of superstitions regarding menstruation (see this article) out there that fuel the mentality that it's a shameful thing that it happens at all. Hell, even a few jokes out there aren't helping. The one where the punchline is that "God must be a civil engineer since who else would put a sewage line smack dab in the middle of a recreational area?" comes to mind.

With all that, is it any wonder that some women have a hangup with that activity? My own wife can barely bring herself to ask for it and when she does...she's always asking me in the middle of it if I'm OK, is it OK, it's not nasty is it? and so forth.




54 always wanting more said:


> My wife loves to go down on me, But refuses to let me go down on her says she doesn't like and gets nothing out of it. I love the taste of the V from what I remember, I need help.


Armed with what I put up above, you might want to have a conversation with your wife. See if she can bring herself to tell you why she doesn't like oral. If it's because of any of the things mentioned above...you might be able to help her get over that given time.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Did you not know this before you married? If you thought you could talk her into once the ring was on, you must not have the silver tongue you thought you did.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

Skruddgemire said:


> Likely because we're under the daft notion that consent is important?


I am not advocating doing something against anybody's will. This is called rape. But it does not mean a partner should just accept any sexual rejection. What happens in this case is that both partners need to admit that hey are sexually incompatible. I feel it happens very often and either one or two partners are miserable trying either to change other partner's view or silently swallowing this rejection. 

To be truly in love and truly happy both partners need to be sexually compatible. They may be best friends, supportive of each other, nice to each other, etc. But if they re sexually incompatible they are doomed. I believe sexual incompatibility is almost impossible to bridge or change. Our sexuality is part of our core, our DNA.




Skruddgemire said:


> Why? Is tonging a vag so important to you that you would ignore everything else that initially attracted you? I mean, I rather doubt that you two met by you going up to her and saying "Hi! I'm looking for someone compatible, mind if I lick you to see if we are?"


I consider oral sex both ways part of that fundamental sexual intimacy that I would never be able to live without. My wife and I talked about specifically oral sex one day. I asked her if hypothetically I did not pleasure her orally if she would be able to love me and live with me. She very reluctantly said "No".

However, what constitutes "mandatory" sexual package and what is "optional" that can be compromised is highly personal. My wife is grossed by vaginal sex during her period while I would not mind. But this is not part of "mandatory" package for me and I am fine with her giving me BJ and HJ during these days.

The same for anal sex. We once attempted it and did not like it and never tried it again. I realize though that for some anal sex is absolutely "must" and they won't be able to fully sexually connect to their partner if he or she does do anal. I guess neither my wife no I are sexually compatible with these people.



Skruddgemire said:


> In a lot of cases, it's not a problem with the physicality of it all, but a mental block. Remember that for the longest time...women have been told that their nether regions are filthy, dirty places. All the feminine hygiene products (Douches, sprays, even deodorants designed for "down there") all present an image that that area is "unclean". Not to mention that there are dozens of superstitions regarding menstruation (see this article) out there that fuel the mentality that it's a shameful thing that it happens at all. Hell, even a few jokes out there aren't helping. The one where the punchline is that "God must be a civil engineer since who else would put a sewage line smack dab in the middle of a recreational area?" comes to mind.
> 
> With all that, is it any wonder that some women have a hangup with that activity? My own wife can barely bring herself to ask for it and when she does...she's always asking me in the middle of it if I'm OK, is it OK, it's not nasty is it? and so forth.
> 
> ...


He can try to talk to his wife but I have doubt she will change her view on oral sex.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

romantic_dreamer said:


> I am not advocating doing something against anybody's will. This is called rape. But it does not mean a partner should just accept any sexual rejection. What happens in this case is that both partners need to admit that hey are sexually incompatible. I feel it happens very often and either one or two partners are miserable trying either to change other partner's view or silently swallowing this rejection.
> 
> To be truly in love and truly happy both partners need to be sexually compatible. They may be best friends, supportive of each other, nice to each other, etc. But if they re sexually incompatible they are doomed. I believe sexual incompatibility is almost impossible to bridge or change. Our sexuality is part of our core, our DNA.
> 
> ...


Just when you think you have read it all here at TAM. Mandatory sexual package…😂


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## Skruddgemire (Mar 10, 2021)

romantic_dreamer said:


> I am not advocating doing something against anybody's will. This is called rape. But it does not mean a partner should just accept any sexual rejection. What happens in this case is that both partners need to admit that hey are sexually incompatible. I feel it happens very often and either one or two partners are miserable trying either to change other partner's view or silently swallowing this rejection.


Then you seem to have a very narrow view on what sexual compatibility is and I'm surprised (and happy for you) that you have found someone who fits that view exactly. 

In the Kink/BDSM lifestyle, we have negotiation. In that negotiation you will commonly find four things. Things that one enjoys, things that one doesn't enjoy but will do anyway for the pleasure of the partner, things one has not tried but is willing to experiment, and things that are a hard and solid "No". A lot of the time there is something that one partner would like to do to the other partner but the other partner has as a hard limit on. However, if there is sufficient numbers of other things, we tend to enjoy the 80% that we can do and shrug off the 20% we can't. 

Goddess knows there's a few things I'd LOVE to do to my wife but she's got them on her "hard no" list. However I'm content with the more substantial list of things I can do and that she can do to/for me.



> I consider oral sex both ways part of that fundamental sexual intimacy that I would never be able to live without. My wife and I talked about specifically oral sex one day. I asked her if hypothetically I did not pleasure her orally if she would be able to love me and live with me. She very reluctantly said "No".


Well that's you and your dynamic. Just because it's something that you can't live without, doesn't mean that it's something that others can't as well. The OP is disappointed that he can't indulge, but the fact that it's a deal breaker for you doesn't mean that it's a marriage breaker for him, or anyone else for that matter. 



> He can try to talk to his wife but I have doubt she will change her view on oral sex.


You'd be amazed. It's not impossible. An example. 30 years ago, my wife had a bad incident with her physical therapist. He had her on the TENS unit and had it set a little too high for her comfort. She commented and the doctor said "You don't know what high is" and cranked it to full and left her there. 

Before anyone comments, yes she did complain, she did report him, and no she never went back to that quack ever again. 

She also never used, nor allowed a TENS unit to be used on her from that point on. This is a bit of a bummer for me since electroplay is something I enjoy. Unlike that quack however, I know to first find the limit and keep the intensity below the threshold. Fast-forward to a few years ago and we saw a demo at a kink education night of electroplay. Someone had brought out their violet wand and after seeing the reactions, she let the guy try it on her arm. It wasn't as bad as she thought. A hard limit suddenly became a soft "let's try it out slowly" limit. Another demonstrator was demoing a TENS unit and the proper usage. She found out that yes there are limits too high for her, but below that threshold, it was intriguing. More recently she had need to go to another physical therapist and she used TENS but made sure that my wife was comfortable with the setting, finding that point where the sensation was intense enough to effect positive healing, but not be painful. 

Now Electroplay is back on the table for me. 

Finding out the reason for the limit, in this case if the reason is years of conditioning that her cootch is a vile, unclean place that oozes pure evil, then talking about it and exploring it (perhaps with the help of a sex therapist) might bring her to the point of letting the OP give it a try. Over time...she may relax and enjoy it. 

She may not and you'd then be correct...but it's worth the conversation and worth the try.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

Skruddgemire said:


> Then you seem to have a very narrow view on what sexual compatibility is and I'm surprised (and happy for you) that you have found someone who fits that view exactly.


You, know, I am surprised too. But I am absolutely convinced that sexual compatibility is absolute must for happy loving, passionate relationship. Everyone has his or her own list of what "must have" or "nice to have" in this compatibility list. Though I have difficulty to accept that oral sex which is so intimate and essential part of sexual intimacy can be left out. 

I would not be able to be with my wife regardless of how great she is if she did not give me BJ, refuse me orally pleasuring her, or did not swallow. Though I see here a lot of men who are completely fine with their wives not swallowing or running to the bathroom to spit. This would kill me.



Skruddgemire said:


> In the Kink/BDSM lifestyle, we have negotiation. In that negotiation you will commonly find four things. Things that one enjoys, things that one doesn't enjoy but will do anyway for the pleasure of the partner, things one has not tried but is willing to experiment, and things that are a hard and solid "No". A lot of the time there is something that one partner would like to do to the other partner but the other partner has as a hard limit on. However, if there is sufficient numbers of other things, we tend to enjoy the 80% that we can do and shrug off the 20% we can't.
> 
> Goddess knows there's a few things I'd LOVE to do to my wife but she's got them on her "hard no" list. However I'm content with the more substantial list of things I can do and that she can do to/for me.


I do not understand how you can "negotiate" sexual experience. You can negotiate a contract but how to negotiate sex? For sexual experience to be truly enjoyable both side needs to enjoy it. And the greatest reward should be your partner's enjoyment and excitement. Willing to experiment should be driven not by negotiation but desire to please each other and experience new sexual things together.



Skruddgemire said:


> Well that's you and your dynamic. Just because it's something that you can't live without, doesn't mean that it's something that others can't as well. The OP is disappointed that he can't indulge, but the fact that it's a deal breaker for you doesn't mean that it's a marriage breaker for him, or anyone else for that matter.


As I said everyone's must have and nice to have list is different. However, it seems to be OP's problem with wife's refusing to accept oral sex is rather serious blocker. My point is that it is not acceptable to just accept the fact that his wife does not want to do this. He will continue resent her and slowing this will kill his sexual desire for his wife and kill their marriage. If it is the case rthey just need both to find carriage and admit they are sexually incompatible and cannot be together. It is better to do this now than to torture each other for years to come. 



Skruddgemire said:


> She may not and you'd then be correct...but it's worth the conversation and worth the try.


He should absolutely try. But I would not bet my money on positive outcome. Against, it does not mean that any of them is bad person. They are just not sexually compatible.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

In Absentia said:


> Just get your cat to help.


Um, a cat's tongue, especially a leopards tongue, is rough and rub-raw scratchy.

I know....


_King Brian-_


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## Skruddgemire (Mar 10, 2021)

romantic_dreamer said:


> I do not understand how you can "negotiate" sexual experience. You can negotiate a contract but how to negotiate sex? For sexual experience to be truly enjoyable both side needs to enjoy it. And the greatest reward should be your partner's enjoyment and excitement. Willing to experiment should be driven not by negotiation but desire to please each other and experience new sexual things together.


Well...One of the things that we did was to each fill out a little form. A form that had a list of things that are commonly done by those who like to explore/experience various fetishes and kinks. It's a pretty substantial list and there are a large number of things that we enjoy together. 

There's no way in heck that we can do everyone of those things at every sexual experience. If we tried...we'd be worn down to nothing. Not to mention that a lot of the things are incompatible with other things on that list. For example...we're switches. Meaning that we switch the roles of dominant and submissive depending on how we feel. So an activity that I enjoy doing in the dominant mode is something I can't do if I'm in the submissive role. Doing so...would pull me out of my mental headspace and would lessen the enjoyment of the experience. 

The upshot of all this is that while there's a huge list, we pick and choose what we're going to do depending on the moods at the time. At any one time we're only hitting maybe 5% of the list at any one encounter. So with a list like that and options aplenty...is it so odd that not doing the other vast majority of the list during the experience can still lead to a very satisfying encounter? 

And I disagree on experiments not needing negotiation. Springing a surprise on someone during sex might not be the best way to go about it. I find that a lot of people (ourselves included) have the best result with saying that they found something interesting, did a little research, maybe watched a little porn on the subject, and then agreeing to give it a whirl. 

But as with everything, mileage may vary.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

SunCMars said:


> Um, a cat's tongue, especially a leopards tongue, is rough and rub-raw scratchy.
> 
> I know....
> 
> ...


Maybe a touch more effective?


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> Just get your cat to help.


Dude ..... don’t cats have a rough tongue? 👅

Ummmmmm... I just thought of something.....Is the cat giving or receiving??


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

romantic_dreamer said:


> I am not advocating doing something against anybody's will. This is called rape. But it does not mean a partner should just accept any sexual rejection. What happens in this case is that both partners need to admit that hey are sexually incompatible. I feel it happens very often and either one or two partners are miserable trying either to change other partner's view or silently swallowing this rejection.
> 
> To be truly in love and truly happy both partners need to be sexually compatible. They may be best friends, supportive of each other, nice to each other, etc. But if they re sexually incompatible they are doomed. I believe sexual incompatibility is almost impossible to bridge or change. Our sexuality is part of our core, our DNA.
> 
> ...


I am amazed that some would actually leave someone they are supposed to love due to one thing they don't like. Wow.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

54 always wanting more said:


> My wife loves to go down on me, But refuses to let me go down on her says she doesn't like and gets nothing out of it. I love the taste of the V from what I remember, I need help.


Be thankful that you have a nice wife, respect her feelings and enjoy all that you do sexually.


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## Galabar01 (Mar 20, 2019)

How did you make it through the dating period without discovering this? I had one girlfriend who was similar and it was disappointing. We, as straight men, are genetically programmed to enjoy doing that. 😀


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> I am amazed that some would actually leave someone they are supposed to love due to one thing they don't like. Wow.


It might be just "one thing" for you but more than one thing for me or OP. Yes, you are supposed to love your spouse. But I personally would not be able to love my wife if she refused to let me orally please her or do me a BJ. This is just part of my expression of love for her and if she refuses or does not accept this my love for her is incomplete or broken. 

It is personal choice. Some may find three is no big deal as I find no big deal no anal sex. That's why sexual compatibility is crucial. And I feel OP and his spouse lack that compatibility.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

romantic_dreamer said:


> It might be just "one thing" for you but more than one thing for me or OP. Yes, you are supposed to love your spouse. But I personally would not be able to love my wife if she refused to let me orally please her or do me a BJ. This is just part of my expression of love for her and if she refuses or does not accept this my love for her is incomplete or broken.
> 
> It is personal choice. Some may find three is no big deal as I find no big deal no anal sex. That's why sexual compatibility is crucial. And I feel OP and his spouse lack that compatibility.


If you have made promises and committed yourself to someone, then you surely accept your spouse who you claim to love if there is JUST ONE thing they feel uncomfortable about. Its not as if she refuses to have sex at all. If my husband didnt like something I wanted to do it wouldnt enter my head to leave him. There is plenty more to do sexually and my love and committment to him wouldn't waver over one thing I wouldnt have.


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## Skruddgemire (Mar 10, 2021)

romantic_dreamer said:


> It might be just "one thing" for you but more than one thing for me or OP. Yes, you are supposed to love your spouse. But I personally would not be able to love my wife if she refused to let me orally please her or do me a BJ. This is just part of my expression of love for her and if she refuses or does not accept this my love for her is incomplete or broken.
> 
> It is personal choice. Some may find three is no big deal as I find no big deal no anal sex. That's why sexual compatibility is crucial. And I feel OP and his spouse lack that compatibility.


That's what's baffling me about your stance on this whole thing. You don't think it's a big deal if people don't like anal sex...but to you it's the end of the world as we know it (and I feel fine) that someone isn't that into cunnilingus.

What works in your dynamic may not and *does not have to be* what works in someone else's dynamic. Yes! For you it's damn important but to others it's not. Sure! I like going down on my wife, but since she has to be in a good headspace to ask for or enjoy it when offered...to me it's not the end of a night's "sexy funtime" if it doesn't happen. It would be nice, but I've a library of other things that I can do that we enjoy (and she doesn't have the hang-up over it to ask for them) and we set out to enjoy them.

Why do you seem to either not grasp that concept, or willingly dismiss it because it's not *your* concept?


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## Skruddgemire (Mar 10, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> There is plenty more to do sexually and my love and committment to him wouldn't waver over one thing I wouldnt have.


A Monty Python quote seems fitting here.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> If you have made promises and committed yourself to someone, then you surely accept your spouse who you claim to love if there is JUST ONE thing they feel uncomfortable about. Its not as if she refuses to have sex at all. If my husband didnt like something I wanted to do it wouldnt enter my head to leave him. There is plenty more to do sexually and my love and committment to him wouldn't waver over one thing I wouldnt have.


So if this "ONE THING" would be your husband refusing you to touch his penis or kiss him? Would you still consider this be one thing? Would you still love him because you "made promises and committed yourself to him"?

What is "one little thing" to you is "one big thing" to others. It seems to OP it is big thing to him. It would be big thing to me either.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

romantic_dreamer said:


> So if this "ONE THING" would be your husband refusing you to touch his penis or kiss him? Would you still consider this be one thing? Would you still love him because you "made promises and committed yourself to him"?
> 
> What is "one little thing" to you is "one big thing" to others. It seems to OP it is big thing to him. It would be big thing to me either.


Your love is completely conditional. You couldn’t love your wife if she no longer wanted to receive oral sex. One has to wonder if you truly love your wife.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

romantic_dreamer said:


> So if this "ONE THING" would be your husband refusing you to touch his penis or kiss him? Would you still consider this be one thing? Would you still love him because you "made promises and committed yourself to him"?
> 
> What is "one little thing" to you is "one big thing" to others. It seems to OP it is big thing to him. It would be big thing to me either.


Yes it would. My marriage is far too important to me to throw it away just because I dont get one thing I want. How selfish is that? What happens to marriages like yours if the spouse gets hurt in an accident or has a stroke and can no longer do anything sexually or is very limited sexually? Do you just walk out?


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

Skruddgemire said:


> That's what's baffling me about your stance on this whole thing. You don't think it's a big deal if people don't like anal sex...but to you it's the end of the world as we know it (and I feel fine) that someone isn't that into cunnilingus.
> 
> What works in your dynamic may not and *does not have to be* what works in someone else's dynamic. Yes! For you it's damn important but to others it's not. Sure! I like going down on my wife, but since she has to be in a good headspace to ask for or enjoy it when offered...to me it's not the end of a night's "sexy funtime" if it doesn't happen. It would be nice, but I've a library of other things that I can do that we enjoy (and she doesn't have the hang-up over it to ask for them) and we set out to enjoy them.
> 
> Why do you seem to either not grasp that concept, or willingly dismiss it because it's not *your* concept?


I said the sexual must have is highly personal. Yes, there are women who cannot love their men with anal sex. They would be sexually incompatible with the men who refused to do anal sex. apparently for OP it is oral sex that is critical. and it is wife's refusal to accept oral sex which makes them incompatible. This is the point, not specifically oral sex. If OP wrote about anal sex, this would apply as well.

About me, I would personally do anything my wife would find exciting and aroused, even if I am not super into it. My wife seems to share the same view. And I think this is what makes our love and our sexual intimacy especially strong and deep.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Skruddgemire said:


> A Monty Python quote seems fitting here.
> 
> View attachment 76586


That's quite apt being that my husband is Australian.😁😁


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

romantic_dreamer said:


> I said the sexual must have is highly personal. Yes, there are women who cannot love their men with anal sex. They would be sexually incompatible with the men who refused to do anal sex. apparently for OP it is oral sex that is critical. and it is wife's refusal to accept oral sex which makes them incompatible. This is the point, not specifically oral sex. If OP wrote about anal sex, this would apply as well.
> 
> About me, I would personally do anything my wife would find exciting and aroused, even if I am not super into it. My wife seems to share the same view. And I think this is what makes our love and our sexual intimacy especially strong and deep.


I don't think that most married people have one thing that if they can't have it they would end their marriage. Marriage isn't all about us, it's about being unselfish and committed no matter what.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

romantic_dreamer said:


> I said the sexual must have is highly personal. Yes, there are women who cannot love their men with anal sex. They would be sexually incompatible with the men who refused to do anal sex. apparently for OP it is oral sex that is critical. and it is wife's refusal to accept oral sex which makes them incompatible. This is the point, not specifically oral sex. If OP wrote about anal sex, this would apply as well.
> 
> About me, I would personally do anything my wife would find exciting and aroused, even if I am not super into it. My wife seems to share the same view. And I think this is what makes our love and our sexual intimacy especially strong and deep.


You joined this site and your first post was about how boring and unexciting your sex life had become and now you are saying you are saying your sexual intimacy is especially strong and deep. 🤷🏼‍♀️


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

romantic_dreamer said:


> I said the sexual must have is highly personal. Yes, there are women who cannot love their men with anal sex. They would be sexually incompatible with the men who refused to do anal sex. apparently for OP it is oral sex that is critical. and it is wife's refusal to accept oral sex which makes them incompatible. This is the point, not specifically oral sex. If OP wrote about anal sex, this would apply as well.
> 
> About me, I would personally do anything my wife would find exciting and aroused, even if I am not super into it. My wife seems to share the same view. And I think this is what makes our love and our sexual intimacy especially strong and deep.


Yet boring according to you.


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## Skruddgemire (Mar 10, 2021)

romantic_dreamer said:


> Yes, there are women who cannot love their men with anal sex. They would be sexually incompatible with the men who refused to do anal sex.


So a woman who does not like anal sex and will not "love their man with anal sex" is incompatible with a man who refuses to do anal sex?

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?



> apparently for OP it is oral sex that is critical. and it is wife's refusal to accept oral sex which makes them incompatible. This is the point, not specifically oral sex. If OP wrote about anal sex, this would apply as well.


Where are you getting that information from? The one and only post that the OP has made so far has stated...



54 always wanting more said:


> My wife loves to go down on me, But refuses to let me go down on her says she doesn't like and gets nothing out of it. I love the taste of the V from what I remember, I need help.


...and nothing in that post has stated that it's a "critical" point. Just that she refuses, does not like it, and that he loves the taste of it. He says he needs help, but that help can range from "hey guys, any ideas on how I can get over the disappointment" to "Hey guys, any ideas on how to get my wife interested in oral" to your extreme of "If I can't lick her cootch the marriage is off".

Without context, any of those points (or any variant in between) is pure speculation and arcane guesswork.




> About me, I would personally do anything my wife would find exciting and aroused, even if I am not super into it. My wife seems to share the same view. And I think this is what makes our love and our sexual intimacy especially strong and deep.


And yes, that's your dynamic. That's how you think and thankfully it works out for you. Everyone else's mileage can and most often will vary. Yes! Not being allowed to go down on your wife is a deal breaker for you, but does it have to be for everyone? That just because you feel that you have to have the freedom to eat out at the Y, everyone else must feel that way? 

And I wonder just how dedicated are you to that? Are you honestly going to tell me that should your wife develop a medical condition that makes cunnilingus an unpleasant sensation to her (things like child birth, life stage changes, etc can do that by increasing the sensitivity of the clitoris to very intense settings) that you would really say "[Fonicate] this [excrement]! I'm out!" and leave her?


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> Your love is completely conditional. You couldn’t love your wife if she no longer wanted to receive oral sex. One has to wonder if you truly love your wife.


(Almost) all love is conditional. 
We all have any number of conditions to engage/continue in a committed loving relationship. 
You have conditions attached to your love for a partner as well, and others may choose to draw those lines in different places than you.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

DudeInProgress said:


> (Almost) all love is conditional.
> We all have any number of conditions to engage/continue in a committed loving relationship.
> You have conditions attached to your love for a partner as well, and others may choose to draw those lines in different places than you.


I understand that. Certainly cheating is a deal breaker, serious addictions etc. I simply question the premise he could no longer be in love with his wife over it. To each his own.


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## Skruddgemire (Mar 10, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> I understand that. Certainly cheating is a deal breaker, serious addictions etc. I simply question the premise he could no longer be in love with his wife over it. To each his own.


And I agree. Especially in light that sexual urges and desires can change over time...it strikes me that hanging a relationship on something as one singular, specific, minor sexual act...is a little odd.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Skruddgemire said:


> And I agree. Especially in light that sexual urges and desires can change over time...it strikes me that hanging a relationship on something as one singular, specific, minor sexual act...is a little odd.


A little is an understatement but this is TAM and one sees it all here. 🤷🏼‍♀️😂


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> You joined this site and your first post was about how boring and unexciting your sex life had become and now you are saying you are saying your sexual intimacy is especially strong and deep. 🤷🏼‍♀️


My sex life had been boring (from my perspective) for a while but our sexual connection and intimacy have always been deep and strong. So, yes it was both boring and strong and deep. Some have trouble understanding this. Boring sex life is not a sign of incompatibility in general. Because you can try new things and break this boring cycle as long as both partners are willing to try. BTW, it was what I finally did. However if my wife completely refused to explore anything sexual or shut down any new sexual adventure this would indicate sexual incompatibility and I believe slowly would kill our sex life and then our marriage.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

romantic_dreamer said:


> My sex life had been boring (from my perspective) for a while but our sexual connection and intimacy have always been deep and strong. So, yes it was both boring and strong and deep. Some have trouble understanding this. Boring sex life is not a sign of incompatibility in general. Because you can try new things and break this boring cycle as long as both partners are willing to try. BTW, it was what I finally did. However if my wife completely refused to explore anything sexual or shut down any new sexual adventure this would indicate sexual incompatibility and I believe slowly would kill our sex life and then our marriage.


According to you for years. She also according to you doesn’t initiate. You are also thinking about all you may have missed out on by her being your only partner. With all due respect I question the intimacy you claim to have.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

Skruddgemire said:


> So a woman who does not like anal sex and will not "love their man with anal sex" is incompatible with a man who refuses to do anal sex?
> 
> Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?


Yes, if anal sex is "must have" for one partner then refusal to do anal sex is the sign of sexual incompatibility. This is highly personal what must have and what not. I just said I would never be able to live and love the woman who refused to have me perform oral sex on her. 





Skruddgemire said:


> Where are you getting that information from? The one and only post that the OP has made so far has stated...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is how I understood the OP's post. I felt that the guy is rather devastated. but if it is not a big deal then it is a different story. I just think that based on the wife's response it is highly unlikely she will change her mind.




Skruddgemire said:


> And yes, that's your dynamic. That's how you think and thankfully it works out for you. Everyone else's mileage can and most often will vary. Yes! Not being allowed to go down on your wife is a deal breaker for you, but does it have to be for everyone? That just because you feel that you have to have the freedom to eat out at the Y, everyone else must feel that way?
> 
> 
> Skruddgemire said:
> ...


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## Skruddgemire (Mar 10, 2021)

romantic_dreamer said:


> Yes, if anal sex is "must have" for one partner then refusal to do anal sex is the sign of sexual incompatibility. This is highly personal what must have and what not. I just said I would never be able to live and love the woman who refused to have me perform oral sex on her.


But that is not what you said. You said...



romantic_dreamer said:


> Yes, there are women who cannot love their men with anal sex.


Which to me reads as "She ain't gonna let him stick it up her bum". And...



romantic_dreamer said:


> They would be sexually incompatible with the men who refused to do anal sex.


Which to me reads as "He ain't interested in sticking it up her bum."

So if neither side wants to shove it up "Hershey Highway", why in the name of Apollo's budgie smugglers are they incompatible? That's like saying that if neither of them like KFC, they shouldn't go out on dates...like ever.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

DudeInProgress said:


> (Almost) all love is conditional.
> We all have any number of conditions to engage/continue in a committed loving relationship.
> You have conditions attached to your love for a partner as well, and others may choose to draw those lines in different places than you.


I agree to this. We love our spouse for who they are.


Skruddgemire said:


> But that is not what you said. You said...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What I said is that for women or men for whom anal sex is part of their sexual identity and so important they cannot be truly sexual without it, partner's refusal to engage in anal sex is sign of irreparable sexual incompatibility. 

For me oral sex is part of my sexual identity and my love for my wife. I cannot fully express love to her and connect with her sexually in full extent without stimulating her wet clit with my tong and lips. I know it equally important to my wife. From my perception of the post I felt it is equally important to OP as well. Whether it is true or false only OP can attest.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> Yes it would. My marriage is far too important to me to throw it away just because I dont get one thing I want. How selfish is that? What happens to marriages like yours if the spouse gets hurt in an accident or has a stroke and can no longer do anything sexually or is very limited sexually? Do you just walk out?


If your husbands refuses you to touch his penis or kiss him while being well and healthy then it is not love, it is something else. At least for me, I don't know about you. 

And this is completely different thing when spouse is sick or hurt. I did not approach my wife with sex for a while after she delivered our kids through caesarian section. But this is completely different perception on sex than refusing husband to perform oral sex on her.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

romantic_dreamer said:


> My sex life had been boring (from my perspective) for a while but our sexual connection and intimacy have always been deep and strong. So, yes it was both boring and strong and deep. Some have trouble understanding this. Boring sex life is not a sign of incompatibility in general. Because you can try new things and break this boring cycle as long as both partners are willing to try. BTW, it was what I finally did. However if my wife completely refused to explore anything sexual or shut down any new sexual adventure this would indicate sexual incompatibility and I believe slowly would kill our sex life and then our marriage.


His wife has one thing she doesn't want to do. She isn't 'shutting down any new sexual adventure'.
I am amazed at how little it takes some people to want to end their marriage. I fear for their wives if they ever get sick or hurt and can't do this stuff at all.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

romantic_dreamer said:


> If your husbands refuses you to touch his penis or kiss him while being well and healthy then it is not love, it is something else. At least for me, I don't know about you.
> 
> And this is completely different thing when spouse is sick or hurt. I did not approach my wife with sex for a while after she delivered our kids through caesarian section. But this is completely different perception on sex than refusing husband to perform oral sex on her.


Committed love shouldn't be dependant on what our spouse wants or doesn't but on us. On our decision to love and be committed and put them first regardless. 
Your posts make it all about you.


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## Skruddgemire (Mar 10, 2021)

romantic_dreamer said:


> Yes, there are *women *who* cannot love their men with anal sex*. They would be sexually incompatible with the *men *who *refused to do anal sex.*


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

@Skruddgemire, you're probably wasting your time. Since @romantic_dreamer seems to have absolutely no comprehension of the enormous contradiction in what he wrote.



romantic_dreamer said:


> *Yes, there are women who cannot love their men with anal sex. **They would be sexually incompatible with the men who refused to do anal sex.*


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Diana7 said:


> His wife has one thing she doesn't want to do. She isn't 'shutting down any new sexual adventure'.
> I am amazed at how little it takes some people to want to end their marriage. I fear for their wives if they ever get sick or hurt and can't do this stuff at all.


1. This isn’t about a wife who is sick or otherwise unable to perform. That would be a completely different situation and I assume OP would view it completely differently as well.

2. That “one thing“ that she’s unwilling to do is one of the standard/basic things that are generally expected as a basic part of sex by most people. Oral (in both directions) is generally considered table stakes and a basic part of a typical sexual relationship I think.

That being said, it’s better than her being unwilling to perform oral on him I guess. 
I would want to understand why she is so opposed to it and unwilling to try it with him, different techniques etc. Unless they’ve already done all that and she still doesn’t want it.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> Committed love shouldn't be dependant on what our spouse wants or doesn't but on us. On our decision to love and be committed and put them first regardless.
> Your posts make it all about you.


Yet your love is also conditional.

Since love is an action and you would end your marriage to your husband. If you found out your husband was enjoying pornography and refused to stop enjoying it, in the face of you asking him to stop.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Personal said:


> Yet your love is also conditional.
> 
> Since love is an action and you would end your marriage to your husband. If you found out your husband was enjoying pornography and refused to stop enjoying it, in the face of you asking him to stop.


Cheating is a no no for most yes. That's why I wouldn't marry a guy who thought porn use was ok. 
Not wanting to do one thing in sex is not. She is doing nothing wrong. Everyone is allowed to say no if there is something they don't want to do.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> She is doing nothing wrong. Everyone is allowed to say no if there is something they don't want to do.


I agree, I was just clarifying that love is conditional for all of us.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

romantic_dreamer said:


> I agree to this. We love our spouse for who they are.
> 
> 
> What I said is that for women or men for whom anal sex is part of their sexual identity and so important they cannot be truly sexual without it, partner's refusal to engage in anal sex is sign of irreparable sexual incompatibility.
> ...


Then he will need to find another way to express his love for her. Its he who likes doing that she doesnt.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Personal said:


> I agree, I was just clarifying that love is conditional for all of us.


I would never stop loving my husband and I would not end the marriage over something like this, its crazy that some think its worth breaking their marriage vows for.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

DudeInProgress said:


> 1. This isn’t about a wife who is sick or otherwise unable to perform. That would be a completely different situation and I assume OP would view it completely differently as well.
> 
> 2. That “one thing“ that she’s unwilling to do is one of the standard/basic things that are generally expected as a basic part of sex by most people. Oral (in both directions) is generally considered table stakes and a basic part of a typical sexual relationship I think.
> 
> ...


So if a man thinks he can cope with his wife being paralysed for example and having no sex, then he can cope with his wife saying no to one thing. 
She doesnt have to explain herself, we are all different and we all like different things. There is nothing wrong with her.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> I would never stop loving my husband and I would not end the marriage over something like this, its crazy that some think its worth breaking their marriage vows for.


Sure, yet you would end it for other reasons like pornography. Whereas someone else wouldn't end it over pornography, since unlike you they would think it would be crazy to end a marriage over it. Now I'm not trying to change your mind on pornography at all, since it is not my place to tell you how to think or live.

And I still agree with you, that his wife shouldn't do anything she is unwilling to do.

That said if the OP feels that her desire not to share such activity, is worth breaking up over. Then he would be doing nothing substantially different than you, by respecting his own limits. Just as you would respect your own limits and end a marriage over pornography.

If he loves her, then he ought to accept her as she is and not bother her with oral sex. On the other hand if she loves him, then she ought to accept his sexual desire and let him do oral sex on her. Given that @Diana7, how can one solve those conflicting wants, for both of them at the same time?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

I think it boils down to respecting that your spouse has certain inalienable rights. If she doesn't want a face in her snatch, then she doesn't have to tolerate it. If it's that important to him, then he picked the wrong partner. 

It would be like a guy who hated liver or brussel sprouts and his wife whining that if he loved her he would eat them. That's immature and disrespecting his very basic right to consume only food that appealed to him.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Blondilocks said:


> I think it boils down to respecting that your spouse has certain inalienable rights. If she doesn't want a face in her snatch, then she doesn't have to tolerate it. If it's that important to him, then he picked the wrong partner.
> 
> It would be like a guy who hated liver or brussel sprouts and his wife whining that if he loved her he would eat them. That's immature and disrespecting his very basic right to consume only food that appealed to him.


To the point, I like it!

Boiled down to describe the circumstance in 6 or 7 words.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

Blondilocks said:


> I think it boils down to respecting that your spouse has certain inalienable rights. If she doesn't want a face in her snatch, then she doesn't have to tolerate it. * If it's that important to him, then he picked the wrong partner. *
> 
> It would be like a guy who hated liver or brussel sprouts and his wife whining that if he loved her he would eat them. That's immature and disrespecting his very basic right to consume only food that appealed to him.


*This *makes this a tragic situation. Why does he discover this now after being married for some time that his wife refuses to get oral sex? 

I personally believe he picked up the wrong partner.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

romantic_dreamer said:


> *This *makes this a tragic situation. Why does he discover this now after being married for some time that his wife refuses to get oral sex?
> 
> I personally believe he picked up the wrong partner.


My wife developed aversions to things after many years, either that or she successfully managed and hid them.

Receiving oral is one of those things.

Unfortunately for me there are things I like better she also developed aversions to.

Fortunately for me, if we’re having sex at all I’m at a good baseline and I was able to incorporate new things to both of us we’re still doing.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

romantic_dreamer said:


> *This *makes this a tragic situation. Why does he discover this now after being married for some time that his wife refuses to get oral sex?
> 
> I personally believe he picked up the wrong partner.


Tragic? Do you know the definition of that word?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> Tragic? Do you know the definition of that word?


Torn maybe if you say, “My wife refuses to allow me to perform oral sex on her.” while this plays in the background?


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

ccpowerslave said:


> Torn maybe if you say, “My wife refuses to allow me to perform oral sex on her.” while this plays in the background?


😂😂😂


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> Tragic? Do you know the definition of that word?


It is very tragic. I put myself in guy's position. If I discover after being married to my wife that she refuses to let me orally please her, this would be devastated to me. either I will have to live with this resenting my wife (I am pretty sure this would slowly but surely destroy my love for her and our marriage like cancer destroying the body) or I have to end the marriage that I personally consider sacred union. for me it is a tragedy. And the tragic situation is that none of partners is at fault. They are simply sexually incompatible that makes their happy marriage impossible. And the tragedy is that they only discover this _after _getting married.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

romantic_dreamer said:


> It is very tragic. I put myself in guy's position. If I discover after being married to my wife that she refuses to let me orally please her, this would be devastated to me. either I will have to live with this resenting my wife (I am pretty sure this would slowly but surely destroy my love for her and our marriage like cancer destroying the body) or I have to end the marriage that I personally consider sacred union. for me it is a tragedy. And the tragic situation is that none of partners is at fault. They are simply sexually incompatible that makes their happy marriage impossible. And the tragedy is that they only discover this _after _getting married.


Well I sure hope you never have to experience real tragedy in your life. I again question your love for your wife if that would be something that destroyed it.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

54 always wanting more said:


> My wife loves to go down on me, But refuses to let me go down on her says she doesn't like and gets nothing out of it. I love the taste of the V from what I remember, I need help.


You are going to need to interact with those here trying to help if you want some better insight into your situation. 

Right now I would point out that your main problem is that you probably just want a quick and simple answer to an issue and that you are not willing to invest any time into understanding the full dynamics of your situation based on your inability to engage in a conversation on this thread. 

If you just want a quick and simple answer: She doesn't like it because she probably just wants to make you happy. From her perspective that likely involves making you climax as soon as possible so that you will stop annoying her about wanting sex (that she probably does not enjoy). When you give her oral sex she knows YOU are not going to climax from it and this makes her frustrated because she just wants your climax over and done as opposed to doing anything that will prolong the situation.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

romantic_dreamer said:


> It is very tragic. I put myself in guy's position. If I discover after being married to my wife that she refuses to let me orally please her, this would be devastated to me. either I will have to live with this resenting my wife (I am pretty sure this would slowly but surely destroy my love for her and our marriage like cancer destroying the body) or I have to end the marriage that I personally consider sacred union. for me it is a tragedy. And the tragic situation is that none of partners is at fault. They are simply sexually incompatible that makes their happy marriage impossible. And the tragedy is that they only discover this _after _getting married.


Not sure if you're being hyperbolic or not here.

Not being able to perform oral would *devastating*?
To quote Iñigo Montoya "I do not think it means what you think it means"

Not being able to perform oral would cause resentment?
Resentment to the point that you would have to end the marriage?


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

snerg said:


> Not sure if you're being hyperbolic or not here.
> 
> Not being able to perform oral would *devastating*?
> To quote Iñigo Montoya "I do not think it means what you think it means"
> ...


Words like tragic and devastating lose their meaning when attached to things that are so obviously not. Tragic is losing a child. Devastating is losing ones home in a fire. The dramatics are ridiculous.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

snerg said:


> Not sure if you're being hyperbolic or not here.
> 
> Not being able to perform oral would *devastating*?
> To quote Iñigo Montoya "I do not think it means what you think it means"
> ...


Yes. why is this so surprising?

There are a lot of folks here who seem to be ready to end marriage if their husbands watch porn. So why ending marriage due to porn usage is fine and end marriage due to lack of or refusal to accept oral sex is not?


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

romantic_dreamer said:


> Yes. why is this so surprising?
> 
> There are a lot of folks here who seem to be ready to end marriage if their husbands watch porn. So why ending marriage due to porn usage is fine and end marriage due to lack of or refusal to accept oral sex is not?


I don't think people are advocate ending marriage due to simply watching porn. They advocate ending a marriage when porn becomes such a problem that it impacts the couple's sex life and they refuse to get help. Like any addiction.

If a partner is willing to do most of the "typical" sex acts, but doesn't want or like to receive oral sex that is a bummer, but far from devastating and certainly not a marriage ender. You often seem very over dramatic.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I don't think people advocate ending marriage due to simply watching porn. They advocate ending a marriage when porn becomes such a problem that it impacts the couple's sex life and they refuse to get help. Like any addiction.
> 
> If a partner is willing to do most of the "typical" sex acts, but doesn't want or like to receive oral sex is a bummer, but far from devastating and certainly not a marriage ender. You often seem very over dramatic.


When someone uses words like tragic and devastating in a situation like this it’s a good indication they have had a very sheltered life. We live in a world where people’s children can’t go outside to play because their country is being torn apart by riots. That is tragic. Not being able to give oral to someone just doesn’t fall into that category IMO.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I don't think people advocate ending marriage due to simply watching porn. They advocate ending a marriage when porn becomes such a problem that it impacts the couple's sex life and they refuse to get help. Like any addiction.
> 
> If a partner is willing to do most of the "typical" sex acts, but doesn't want or like to receive oral sex is a bummer, but far from devastating and certainly not a marriage ender. You often seem very over dramatic.


No it is not true. There is at least one woman here who simply rejects any porn under any cover or pretext. I am pretty sure for her, husband watching ANY porn would be complete deal breaker and reason to end marriage.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> When someone uses words like tragic and devastating in a situation like this it’s a good indication they have had a very sheltered life. We live in a world where people’s children can’t go outside to play because their country is being torn apart by riots. That is tragic. Not being able to give oral to someone just doesn’t fall into that category IMO.


This is most stupid argument I have read here. 

It is devastating for a person or a couple to live in sexless or sexually depleted marriage. It is devastating to end marriage because of sexual incompatibility that should have been tested way before entering the marriage.

The fact we have unrest or several million people died from covid does not make individual or couple misery less tragic for them.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

romantic_dreamer said:


> This is most stupid argument I have read here.
> 
> It is devastating for a person or a couple to live in sexless or sexually depleted marriage. It is devastating to end marriage because of sexual incompatibility that should have been tested way before entering the marriage.
> 
> The fact we have unrest or several million people died from covid does not make individual or couple misery less tragic for them.


Is it really? My man I hope life stays simple for you. 🤷🏼‍♀️


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## MEA (Jul 12, 2021)

54 always wanting more said:


> My wife loves to go down on me, But refuses to let me go down on her says she doesn't like and gets nothing out of it. I love the taste of the V from what I remember, I need help.


If my husband pressured me to do things I’m uncomfortable with, that would the beginning of the end of the marriage for me.
You love the taste of V. You love your wife. Decide which one you love more. Sometimes, in life and in marriage you just can’t have it all.
I know some people here will say you can and should have it your way, but marriages don’t come with a BK slogan last I checked.


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## emptyandoverit (Apr 14, 2021)

54 always wanting more said:


> My wife loves to go down on me, But refuses to let me go down on her says she doesn't like and gets nothing out of it. I love the taste of the V from what I remember, I need help.


You could try dumping water on the carpet and licking it up till your hearts content. Take a sweet sniff of her panties while you do it if the V smell helps. I obviously kid here. If she doesn't want oral and it is not because you suck at it, leave it alone. Sex is about the two of you not just you. You're lucky to not have to eat V none of us even know what we are doing down there.


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## C.C. says ... (Aug 1, 2020)

Counselor: ‘Tell us what brings you to grief counseling today.’ 

Man 1: ‘I lost my pregnant wife in a fire. She was trying to save our 5 year old and both of them burned to death along with our unborn son.’

Man 2: ‘My wife won’t let me eat her *****. Oh God my life is over!!’ 😫


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Personal said:


> Sure, yet you would end it for other reasons like pornography. Whereas someone else wouldn't end it over pornography, since unlike you they would think it would be crazy to end a marriage over it. Now I'm not trying to change your mind on pornography at all, since it is not my place to tell you how to think or live.
> 
> And I still agree with you, that his wife shouldn't do anything she is unwilling to do.
> 
> ...


If he loved her he wouldn't pressure her to do something when she has said no. That's rape. 
I wouldn't divorce a man due to porn use, I wouldn't marry a man who thought cheating with porn was ok. 
We are humans, we are allowed to say no to something we don't like or that makes us feel bad without being pressured or made to feel guilty.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

romantic_dreamer said:


> It is very tragic. I put myself in guy's position. If I discover after being married to my wife that she refuses to let me orally please her, this would be devastated to me. either I will have to live with this resenting my wife (I am pretty sure this would slowly but surely destroy my love for her and our marriage like cancer destroying the body) or I have to end the marriage that I personally consider sacred union. for me it is a tragedy. And the tragic situation is that none of partners is at fault. They are simply sexually incompatible that makes their happy marriage impossible. And the tragedy is that they only discover this _after _getting married.


If that is a tragedy to you then you clearly have no idea what real tragedy is. Talk about first world problems.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> If he loved her he wouldn't pressure her to do something when she has said no. That's rape.
> I wouldn't divorce a man due to porn use, I wouldn't marry a man who thought cheating with porn was ok.
> We are humans, we are allowed to say no to something we don't like or that makes us feel bad without being pressured or made to feel guilty.


I agree with most of what you've said, but equating pressuring her to raping her is over the top. Pressure implies nothing happened because she says no. It may be wrong to do to someone you truly love, but it isn't rape, even if she were to cave in and say yes.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> If he loved her he wouldn't pressure her to do something when she has said no. That's rape.
> I wouldn't divorce a man due to porn use, I wouldn't marry a man who thought cheating with porn was ok.
> We are humans, we are allowed to say no to something we don't like or that makes us feel bad without being pressured or made to feel guilty.


So if your husband starts using porn you won't divorce him? And if you ask him to stop he says "No"? Your husband is human, he is allowed to say no to something he does not like or that makes him feel bad without being pressured or made to feel guilty. Correct?


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## MEA (Jul 12, 2021)

How did this turn into a comparison between rape and porn? People’s opinions are so diverse these days that it’s really not ok to shame someone for disliking porn, liking porn, disking oral, or liking oral. As long as the porn is legal and consensual, these issues are all very personal and should not be debatable.

…and this is coming from a woman who does consider watching porn to be cheating and I absolutely would divorce my husband if he developed a porn habit. I would rather be alone than be debased or expected to “perform” like the “actresses,” and I was ready to be happily alone for the rest of my life until my bff husband came along ten years ago. And my husband has no interest in and no need to watch naked strangers having sex on TV when he has a hot wife and real life sex. …but we absolutely discussed this and all other important deal breaker topics prior to marriage. If we were not in the same page, we never would have tied the knot.
Seriously people, being alone is like a dream compared to some of the abusive domestic situations I’m reading about here.

The bottom line is that any type of deal-breaker should have been discussed prior to marriage.
Guy thinks not being able to lick V is a deal breaker? Should have brought it up before marriage. Girl thinks licking V is a deal breaker? Should have brought it up prior to marriage.

Now, if anyone is thinking, “but what about deal breakers that just haven’t come up or that we may have forgotten about?” Slow down! These things are bound to come up with at least a year long relationship. And if a person has a long laundry list of deal breakers, then personal counseling is probably a much better idea than marriage anyway at that point.

I have the following hard lines (and my husband shares the same ideology):
1. Loyalty (yes this includes live participation in a virtual recorded orgy with TV strangers, and yes was discussed)
2. Ambition (have a goal, be working towards it, and do whatever it takes to make it happen - barring illness or injury, no parasitical behavior)
3. Respect (treat each other with dignity and grace - be responsive to and care about each other’s feelings, and be willing to reflect and grow together; also to respect each other’s hard earned money and precious time)

Other people may have completely different deal-breakers, and that’s ok, but not discussing ahead of time and then expecting one person to tolerate another’s boundary crossing (breaking the deal breaker) is not at all ok.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I agree with most of what you've said, but equating pressuring her to raping her is over the top. Pressure implies nothing happened because she says no. It may be wrong to do to someone you truly love, but it isn't rape, even if she were to cave in and say yes.


 If a person clearly says no and their partner won't give up and pressures them over and over until they give in, that is very unloving and very disrespectful as well as bordering on rape.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

MEA said:


> The bottom line is that any type of deal-breaker should have been discussed prior to marriage.
> Guy thinks not being able to lick V is a deal breaker? Should have brought it up before marriage. Girl thinks licking V is a deal breaker? Should have brought it up prior to marriage.


Sure they should be. But what if it’s not a deal breaker and 15 years down the road it is?

A lot of things you read about on this site are along the lines of, “My SO used to do X and now they do not.”

If they never did X then that’s a different problem with a simple solution as you describe but I’d say based on my limited time here that is maybe 30% or less of the situations here.

It’s not a deal breaker for me but performing oral on my wife is an example where I used to do it often before and after marriage and now she isn’t interested at all.

If that was a problem for me (like it is for some here) then you’re going to read about it and your solution is maybe still a good one but it’s a lot more complicated because of the history, financial, and possibly even children involved.

I’m not sure how old you are but people and relationships can change over time and what wasn’t a problem in the past can become a problem now with the same people.

I still think your solution is the right one. If you’re really unhappy then issue an ultimatum and be prepared to end it.


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## Skruddgemire (Mar 10, 2021)

Personal said:


> @Skruddgemire, you're probably wasting your time. Since @romantic_dreamer seems to have absolutely no comprehension of the enormous contradiction in what he wrote.


Yeah, I know. There are times when I wonder why I bother being on sites like this. Trying to debate with some people is rather like attacking an insane asylum with a rubber chicken. It's stupid, pointless, doomed to failure, and you'll never be able to explain the rubber chicken.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I agree with most of what you've said, but equating pressuring her to raping her is over the top. Pressure implies nothing happened because she says no. It may be wrong to do to someone you truly love, but it isn't rape, even* if she were to cave in and say yes.*


That would be coercion which falls under sexual assault as does rape. Look it up.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Blondilocks said:


> That would be coercion which falls under sexual assault as does rape. Look it up.


It is an awful thing to badger your spouse about sex acts, especially if you are having sex of some kind, but you have to go very far for coercion to cross the line into sexual assault territory with a spouse or partner. Things like...
Not stopping when you say no
Using physical force to make you have sex
Threatening violence to get you to have sex
Threatening to expose your immigration status to make you have sex
Threatening to turn you in for illegal behavior to make you have sex
Causing you to ingest alcohol or drugs without your knowledge and then having sex with you

That is rape in any reasonable person's mind, but asking your wife to let you orally pleasure her, even in a persistent and annoying way, isn't rape.

And to get back to the OP's original post. His wife must have other issues. In another post he talked about him and his wife engaging in mutual masturbation. She orgasms before him and just up and leaves him to do his own thing and he is concerned she likes her toy better than his penis. So, OP has a wife that doesn't like to get oral, seems to prefer a toy to him and doesn't seem to have a lot of concern for his sexual needs.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Look up the definition of sexual coercion.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Blondilocks said:


> Look up the definition of sexual coercion.


I did, and the result matches what I posted. 

There are circumstances where sexual coercion crosses the line into sexual assault, but it is very specific. As I said, a spouse badgering and being annoying about a sex act is not sexual assault, period. It is stupid and disrespectful, but not illegal. 









What Is Sexual Coercion?


It wasn't rape, but you still didn't say yes. It's called sexual coercion, and it's a tactic of abusers.




www.domesticshelters.org






https://www.womenshealth.gov/relationships-and-safety/other-types/sexual-coercion#:~:text=Sexual%20coercion%20is%20most%20likely,may%20be%20against%20the%20law


.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I did, and the result matches what I posted.
> 
> There are circumstances where sexual coercion crosses the line into sexual assault, but it is very specific. As I said, a spouse badgering and being annoying about a sex act is not sexual assault, period. It is stupid and disrespectful, but not illegal.
> 
> ...


Even your article states that legally it may not be *necessarily *sexual assault. The US Justice Dept leaves it up to the reigning jurisdiction to make the distinction. 

Sexual coercion used to be commonly known as date rape - no roofie required.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Blondilocks said:


> Even your article states that legally it may not be *necessarily *sexual assault. The US Justice Dept leaves it up to the reigning jurisdiction to make the distinction.
> 
> Sexual coercion used to be commonly known as date rape - no roofie required.


Right, coercion does not automatically mean sexual assault. That is all I've been saying. 

We are going way out in left field from what this thread was actually about. I hope you don't really think a husband, who regularly has sex with his wife, now pestering her to allow him to go down on her is the same thing as a man coercing his date into sex for the first time, someone saying screw me or I'll ruin your career, or slipping a woman a sedative.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

54 always wanting more said:


> My wife loves to go down on me, But refuses to let me go down on her says she doesn't like and gets nothing out of it. I love the taste of the V from what I remember, I need help.


I love my wife too much to insist she do or allow something she dislikes. We have too many mutually enjoyable things to obsess over something one or the other doesnt care for.

Just us I guess, we always thought intimacy was about both of us having fun together.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> I love my wife too much to insist she do or allow something she dislikes. We have too many mutually enjoyable things to obsess over something one or the other doesnt care for.
> 
> Just us I guess, we always thought intimacy was about both of us having fun together.


Rather like wife putting fried liver n onions (which I Hate)on table every dinner and insustung I eat it.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

BigDaddyNY said:


> And to get back to the OP's original post. His wife must have other issues. In another post he talked about him and his wife engaging in mutual masturbation. She orgasms before him and just up and leaves him to do his own thing and he is concerned she likes her toy better than his penis. So, OP has a wife that doesn't like to get oral, seems to prefer a toy to him and doesn't seem to have a lot of concern for his sexual needs.


So the list is growing and this is just the latest event to be added.

Point being then is he needs to decide when is enough ... enough?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Rus47 said:


> I love my wife too much to insist she do or allow something she dislikes. We have too many mutually enjoyable things to obsess over something one or the other doesnt care for.
> 
> Just us I guess, we always thought intimacy was about both of us having fun together.


No it's not just you. If my husband said he didn't want to do something I did, I would respect that, not mention it again and move on.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

I’d probably say ok babe but then later encourage her to get doctors physical and some blood work. Maybe she’ll come around. Could be a health issue or perhaps you did something to turn her off (too aggressive, persistent, poky beard, dirty beard, slobbery, or something). I guess my love for doing that would dry up pretty quickly if my wife didn’t love it... pretty sure I’d know immediately if it wasn’t working... probably cry myself to sleep that same night 😂


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

CatholicDad said:


> I’d probably say ok babe but then later encourage her to get doctors physical and some blood work. Maybe she’ll come around. Could be a health issue or perhaps you did something to turn her off (too aggressive, persistent, poky beard, dirty beard, slobbery, or something). I guess my love for doing that would dry up pretty quickly if my wife didn’t love it... pretty sure I’d know immediately if it wasn’t working... probably cry myself to sleep that same night 😂


If she doesn't like something then suggesting she gets blood work or has a health issue is pretty offensive. Maybe people just don't like certain things.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> If she doesn't like something then suggesting she gets blood work or has a health issue is pretty offensive. Maybe people just don't like certain things.


Conversely, if someone doesn’t find joy in things they used to- it could be a sign of a hormonal or serious health issue.

Haven’t read the all the other posts so maybe I missed something. Maybe she never liked it..


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> I am amazed that some would actually leave someone they are supposed to love due to one thing they don't like. Wow.


Thank you.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

romantic_dreamer said:


> This is most stupid argument I have read here.
> 
> It is devastating for a person or a couple to live in sexless or sexually depleted marriage. It is devastating to end marriage because of sexual incompatibility that should have been tested way before entering the marriage.
> 
> The fact we have unrest or several million people died from covid does not make individual or couple misery less tragic for them.


You need to join the Peace Corps.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

snerg said:


> So the list is growing and this is just the latest event to be added.
> 
> Point being then is he needs to decide when is enough ... enough?


Yes. Seems a tiny bit like she is slowly turning off sex. For many, no sex is a deal breaker.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Yes. Seems a tiny bit like she is slowly turning off sex. For many, no sex is a deal breaker.


I just noted OPs other thread about their joint "solo" sex. And yes, seems there is more to this. If they are both in their 50s that is often a time when a couple becomes stressed from mid-life chemical and psychological change. Lot of change going on with both genders.

If a reservoir of love and caring hasnt been filled before those difficult times, sometimes the marriage is ripped apart.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

54 always wanting more said:


> My wife loves to go down on me, But refuses to let me go down on her says she doesn't like and gets nothing out of it. I love the taste of the V from what I remember, I need help.


You asked she told you. Learn to listen to her and respect her wishes. There are lots of women who have lots of different real and unreasonable fears about receiving oral sex. Some women, as they get older, get weak bladders where they leak urine when the cough, sneeze or get sexually excited. That can put a huge damper on some women's desire. Others are afraid of getting a Urinary Tract Infection. Having had a UTI, I know that as a man that they are a really painful and akward thing. I can only imagine how horrible it might be for a woman. For a woman to enjoy oral sex she needs to be really comfortable with her body, how she looks and her own sexuality.

My suggestion, is to find something else that the two of you both enjoy and move on with your lives.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Blondilocks said:


> Did you not know this before you married? If you thought you could talk her into once the ring was on, you must not have the silver tongue you thought you did.


Giving and receiving oral sex was a big deal to me prior to marriage. Prior to marrying my wife we talked about oral sex. She had not given me a BJ prior to marriage, but most other things were OK. I did discuss this extensively with her. She told me that it was too intimate prior to marriage. She told me that after we were married she would change and that the nun's at the high school and middle school she was educated at had told her that after marriage nothing a husband and wife did to please each other was wrong. She honestly believe that marriage would change her. Because she believed she would become eager to do oral after marriage, I believed her. She was an honest and dependable woman who loved me and who I loved.

Well after marriage when we next discussed this, she told me that nuns had no idea how disgusting and perverted men could really be and that there was no way she was going to put that in her mouth. It turned out that after marriage, there were a lot of other things that she would not do, that she had done prior to marriage. When we dicused them
she told me that she might do them later in our marriage just to keep the fire of passion alive. 

Well we drifted into a sex starved marriage around the time she turned 60. I was prepared to divorce her, but we tried marriage counseling with a sex therapist and that saved our marriage. One of the things we did was fill out "yes/no/maybe" lists of sexual activities. In discussing them with the sex therapist, I learned that she really had pushed herself prior to marriage to satisfy my desires, and that she thought that she could change her own attitudes toward sex as marriage would change her. It didn't and she didn't try very hard to change herself. As to some of the things she use to be able to do sexually, she told the ST that those sex acts were too "high school" and that she was a grown woman and grandmother not some teenage virgin girl. 

The sex therapist help us settle on a list of sex acts that we could both enjoy and a frequency that would satisfy my needs to feel loved, cherished and desired.

She has still never given me a BJ and I have no expecation that she ever will, even though she has promised it in the past. There are sometimes you just need to let go of things.

My point is that it might not be him and his "lack of a silver tongue" it might be totally her.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

emptyandoverit said:


> You could try dumping water on the carpet and licking it up till your hearts content. Take a sweet sniff of her panties while you do it if the V smell helps.


Ok, now I have to clean my coffee off of my monitor.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

C.C. says ... said:


> Counselor: ‘Tell us what brings you to grief counseling today.’
> 
> Man 1: ‘I lost my pregnant wife in a fire. She was trying to save our 5 year old and both of them burned to death along with our unborn son.’
> 
> Man 2: ‘My wife won’t let me eat her ***. Oh God my life is over!!’ 😫


Counselor: 'There's a website you can go to and openly discuss the things that bother you. There are a lot of very helpful people there...and some not so helpful.'


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## C.C. says ... (Aug 1, 2020)

Sfort said:


> Counselor: 'There's a website you can go to and openly discuss the things that bother you. There are a lot of very helpful people there...and some not so helpful.'


I felt I was being helpful in the most succinct way I knew how to be. Sorry?


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

C.C. says ... said:


> I felt I was being helpful in the most succinct way I knew how to be. Sorry?


I'm just dogging on you.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

two possibilities:
1) she really does not get any sexual enjoyment from it, and only wants a big **** in her
or
2) she has some cleanliness issues, and is worried you will not enjoy her taste at all

not sure what you can do about either of those, other than to respect her wishes.
does she enjoy oral sex when she is drunk, but not when sober? Might be reason #2, that she enjoys it when her inhibitions are down


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## NTA (Mar 28, 2021)

I know just the guy she needs!


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Young at Heart said:


> *Giving and receiving oral sex was a big deal to me prior to marriage. Prior to marrying my wife we talked about oral sex. She had not given me a BJ prior to marriage*, but most other things were OK. I did discuss this extensively with her. She told me that it was too intimate prior to marriage. *She told me that after we were married she would change* and that the nun's at the high school and middle school she was educated at had told her that after marriage nothing a husband and wife did to please each other was wrong. She honestly believe that marriage would change her. Because she believed she would become eager to do oral after marriage, I believed her. She was an honest and dependable woman who loved me and who I loved.
> 
> Well after marriage when we next discussed this, she told me that nuns had no idea how disgusting and perverted men could really be and that there was no way she was going to put that in her mouth. It turned out that after marriage, there were a lot of other things that she would not do, that she had done prior to marriage. When we dicused them
> she told me that she might do them later in our marriage just to keep the fire of passion alive.
> ...


Sounds like you experienced a "bait and switch" long ago. Good your marriage survived the roller coaster of being promised things that never happened. And, yes at some point (after decades) just need to "let go of things". There are usually more positives than negatives in a long marriage.

Thankfully my wife never promised me anything in the future she didn't demonstrate in the moment.


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## Music4Life (9 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> Be thankful that you have a nice wife, respect her feelings and enjoy all that you do sexually.


Although this is a good comment, it points to the lack of accountability that we have for women when it comes to married sex. It's almost like we will never say "yes, a lot of women have sexual hangups". A lot of women also get bored with having sex with the same man for the rest of their lives, just like men do with women. So they often become prudish in the bedroom - and let's just be honest again - sex is often (innately) used as a method of control for the woman. A woman submitting to her husband's requests and desires, in her mind, means that she is GIVING UP CONTROL. Here in this western culture, we make sexual decision all about the woman - BUT in a marriage sex is not simply about the woman. A married couple should be as FREE sexually with each other as they want to be, within reason. "Reason" meaning anything that isn't harmful. News Flash - Oral sex within a marriage is 100% WITHIN REASON. I hate how most people show how brainwashed and programmed they are by these responses. It's like "well just suck it up, deal with a lackluster sex life that's totally controlled by your wife". Like it's just a part of the natural plight of being a man to just deal with whatever whack sex his wife wants to give him. NO. Wives and Husbands should be sexually engaged. As soon as a woman "needs" something sexually, a man is expected to find a way to make it happen. Can't keep it up? Take some pills. Can't last long enough? Do some exercises and learn new techniques. Can't find her spot? Read these books, take a class to learn. Not long enough? Find some pumps or something, WORK HARDER at stimulating her. The list never ends. But men can't say ANYTHING that they need from their woman. In my marriage, it came down to me explaining things to my wife in this manner. And letting her know that I am far too good of a man and husband to not have my wife on my page sexually. Told her to do some research and start practicing these things that I'm wanting. And it was almost like she was offended that I dared require something sexually. Shows you how we're programmed in the west. She had never thought about it from my perspective. Guess what though? She got on my page and things just get hotter and hotter. At some point, men have to stand up for themselves! Now - if you aren't married, this isn't for you. You don't have true ownership of each other's bodies without the marriage covenant. But for the other married folks, your body belongs to your spouse. And it's not the definition of "belong" that refers to abuse and control. It's the definition that refers to the FREEDOM that a married man and woman are SUPPOSED TO HAVE! We need to approach this issue differently.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Music4Life said:


> Although this is a good comment, it points to the lack of accountability that we have for women when it comes to married sex. It's almost like we will never say "yes, a lot of women have sexual hangups". A lot of women also get bored with having sex with the same man for the rest of their lives, just like men do with women. So they often become prudish in the bedroom - and let's just be honest again - sex is often (innately) used as a method of control for the woman. A woman submitting to her husband's requests and desires, in her mind, means that she is GIVING UP CONTROL. Here in this western culture, we make sexual decision all about the woman - BUT in a marriage sex is not simply about the woman. A married couple should be as FREE sexually with each other as they want to be, within reason. "Reason" meaning anything that isn't harmful. News Flash - Oral sex within a marriage is 100% WITHIN REASON. I hate how most people show how brainwashed and programmed they are by these responses. It's like "well just suck it up, deal with a lackluster sex life that's totally controlled by your wife". Like it's just a part of the natural plight of being a man to just deal with whatever whack sex his wife wants to give him. NO. Wives and Husbands should be sexually engaged. As soon as a woman "needs" something sexually, a man is expected to find a way to make it happen. Can't keep it up? Take some pills. Can't last long enough? Do some exercises and learn new techniques. Can't find her spot? Read these books, take a class to learn. Not long enough? Find some pumps or something, WORK HARDER at stimulating her. The list never ends. But men can't say ANYTHING that they need from their woman. In my marriage, it came down to me explaining things to my wife in this manner. And letting her know that I am far too good of a man and husband to not have my wife on my page sexually. Told her to do some research and start practicing these things that I'm wanting. And it was almost like she was offended that I dared require something sexually. Shows you how we're programmed in the west. She had never thought about it from my perspective. Guess what though? She got on my page and things just get hotter and hotter. At some point, men have to stand up for themselves! Now - if you aren't married, this isn't for you. You don't have true ownership of each other's bodies without the marriage covenant. But for the other married folks, your body belongs to your spouse. And it's not the definition of "belong" that refers to abuse and control. It's the definition that refers to the FREEDOM that a married man and woman are SUPPOSED TO HAVE! We need to approach this issue differently.


If Mr D had something he didn't want to do that I did it wouldn't be a big deal to me. I certainly wouldn't get hung up on it. I would just concentrate on the things we both liked and enjoyed. Marriage often needs compromise and sometimes that includes in sex as well. 
It's not all about me and what I want or don't want, but about my spouse and what he wants or doesn't want. I can't have it my way all the time.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Music4Life said:


> Shows you how we're programmed in the west.


To... to see women as human beings instead of livestock? Honestly your whole post scares me. It's the reason I left the church; the woman doesn't matter. She belongs to the man and has to do what he wants and he owes her nothing. You complain that men have to make an effort, then say women should make the effort you don't believe men should have to make.

Not for nothing, I don't think you've ever thought about it from her perspective. You are violating her body. You're entering her. It means nothing to you because she's just a piece of faceless meat but the emotional impact is intense. Just, the whole thing is yikes. I feel for your wife. I hope she has a job.


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## Music4Life (9 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> If Mr D had something he didn't want to do that I did it wouldn't be a big deal to me. I certainly wouldn't get hung up on it. I would just concentrate on the things we both liked and enjoyed. Marriage often needs compromise and sometimes that includes in sex as well.
> It's not all about me and what I want or don't want, but about my spouse and what he wants or doesn't want. I can't have it my way all the time.


Agreed, but at the same time, this is the difference between men and women. Just because it wouldn't be a big deal to you doesn't mean it wouldn't be a big deal to him. The real compromise lies in that understanding. My whole comment actually affirms what you said too. I'm saying that the wife's refusal to be open and allow her husband to express himself freely in the bedroom (which in this case, is totally reasonable) IS all about her. It's not all about him, it's all about her.


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## Music4Life (9 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> To... to see women as human beings instead of livestock? Honestly your whole post scares me. It's the reason I left the church; the woman doesn't matter. She belongs to the man and has to do what he wants and he owes her nothing. You complain that men have to make an effort, then say women should make the effort you don't believe men should have to make.
> 
> Not for nothing, I don't think you've ever thought about it from her perspective. You are violating her body. You're entering her. It means nothing to you because she's just a piece of faceless meat but the emotional impact is intense. Just, the whole thing is yikes. I feel for your wife. I hope she has a job.


NOPE. Nothing but projection. You missed everything I said. And all you're saying is that no matter how logical and rational a man makes his argument, you will still only accept the westernized/feminist version of what you want to hear. A marriage is not just a boyfriend/girlfriend thing. It's different, a husband and a wife do actually belong to each other. And you should never accuse anyone of anything harmful if you don't know. You're just spouting stuff because you don't like men having their own views that aren't grounded in woman worship. But for the record, I would never force myself on anyone because it is a violation and I'm not that kind of guy. What turns me on is my woman actually being enthusiastic and involved. What you're talking about is for a different breed of guy. That's not me. As far as what I AM saying, the conversation and the highlighting of what is essentially uncomfortable truth, is just that, It's uncomfortable. But by no means is it any less valid. Women are not taught that they "owe" their husband anything, and as I said - it's a result of our culture, which is centered around feminism, which is just the veneration of the mother goddess essence in the physical realm. Again, I have never violated my wife and never would. I would get no pleasure or gratification from that. I hate how effortlessly you just got on here saying that. That is a very dangerous assumption that is not true.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Music4Life said:


> NOPE. Nothing but projection. You missed everything I said. And all you're saying is that no matter how logical and rational a man makes his argument, you will still only accept the westernized/feminist version of what you want to hear. A marriage is not just a boyfriend/girlfriend thing. It's different, a husband and a wife do actually belong to each other. And you should never accuse anyone of anything harmful if you don't know. You're just spouting stuff because you don't like men having their own views that aren't grounded in woman worship. But for the record, I would never force myself on anyone because it is a violation and I'm not that kind of guy. What turns me on is my woman actually being enthusiastic and involved. What you're talking about is for a different breed of guy. That's not me. As far as what I AM saying, the conversation and the highlighting of what is essentially uncomfortable truth, is just that, It's uncomfortable. But by no means is it any less valid. Women are not taught that they "owe" their husband anything, and as I said - it's a result of our culture, which is centered around feminism, which is just the veneration of the mother goddess essence in the physical realm. Again, I have never violated my wife and never would. I would get no pleasure or gratification from that. I hate how effortlessly you just got on here saying that. That is a very dangerous assumption that is not true.


I shouldn't have used the word "violation." I'm not expressing myself well and for that I apologize. You are physically entering her and that has an emotional impact. It requires trust and vulnerability, and you have no way of understanding that because you haven't experienced it. It's not your fault and it's not on purpose. I'm trying to explain the female perspective. Most men are never taught that the woman has feelings, it's all news to them. I get that. I thought you wanted to understand, but it appears I am the one who misunderstood. I'd try to explain better, but because I speak from the woman's perspective and tried to explain how she feels, that makes me apparently a man-hater. I get this all the time: if I don't believe a man has total, unaccountable control over the woman and her needs matter, I'm a terrible man hater. I thought you wanted to make things better, but it seems you just want them your way.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Music4Life said:


> Agreed, but at the same time, this is the difference between men and women. Just because it wouldn't be a big deal to you doesn't mean it wouldn't be a big deal to him. The real compromise lies in that understanding. My whole comment actually affirms what you said too. I'm saying that the wife's refusal to be open and allow her husband to express himself freely in the bedroom (which in this case, is totally reasonable) IS all about her. It's not all about him, it's all about her.


It wouldn't be a big deal because I love and respect him and would never want to pressure him to do anything he feels uncomfortable with. No one should be pressured into doing things they hate. 
Why would a spouse want that anyway?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> To... to see women as human beings instead of livestock? Honestly your whole post scares me. It's the reason I left the church; the woman doesn't matter. She belongs to the man and has to do what he wants and he owes her nothing. You complain that men have to make an effort, then say women should make the effort you don't believe men should have to make.
> 
> Not for nothing, I don't think you've ever thought about it from her perspective. You are violating her body. You're entering her. It means nothing to you because she's just a piece of faceless meat but the emotional impact is intense. Just, the whole thing is yikes. I feel for your wife. I hope she has a job.


With respect, I have been to SO many churches in my life and none taught or believed the things you speak about. I have never felt anything but valued and respected in all the churches.


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