# A year since DDay



## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

I've been meaning to give the TAM community an update for some time now, but things have been hectic in my personal life so I've had a hard time sitting down and actually doing it.

Dday was actually Oct 9th of last year, so its been a bit longer than a year.

I guess its always best to start with the good; My P(partner) and I are doing well. While I wish I could say her affair was a distant memory, I can say that she has done everything in her power to help us recover. Talk of the affair is infrequent and mainly occurs when I trigger, which thankfully is also very infrequently these days.

Our old marriage is dead and gone, we've both mourned its passing and have embraced a new life and relationship with each other. I did not think it was possible for us to love each other more than we did before her affair, but I can honestly say, the marriage and relationship that is blooming between us now is stronger and healthier in almost every way. We have both grown as individuals, expanded our communication skills, and learned to lay down and protect healthy marital boundaries. 

I dont have mind movies, and I'm not haunted by thoughts of the POSOM. When I'm with P intimately, only we exist. We are mindful of each others needs and do our best to focus our energies on each other.

I find it strange and difficult to write this update. Things seem so normal at times, like nothing ever happened, but there are moments when I still feel the scars across my heart and soul. I do my best to tell her when I feel that way, she comforts me, and we move on.

P struggles with what she did. I think she has a harder time with forgiving herself than I had forgiving her. She understands what kind of pain she caused me, and sometimes has a hard time living with the guilt of it. I do my best to comfort her during those moments. I try to remind her of all the good and loyal years, about how much I love her and how good of a wife she was and still is. I try and help her accept that we are all fallible as human beings and that life, adult love, commitment, and marriage are all a matter of a daily choice to do the right thing.

P has maintained the NC agreement with two exceptions, and reported both incidents to me the day they occurred. Both were her sending the OM and email, both happened in the same month about 6 months ago. Both were followed up with subsequent e-mails stating that her contacting him was a mistake and he was to maintain NC. The OM never replied to any of the e-mails. 

Full transparency is still in effect, all time, money, and communication is accounted for. She offers to go over her accounts every once in a while, my need to see them has subsided greatly. I still have all of her passwords and she has all of mine.

I suppose that covers the majority of it. I welcome any questions the community might have, and I will try and answer as they are asked over the next few days. 

In case anyone is wondering, I deleted my original thread because it contained a detailed description of P's suicide attempt last november, and it was just too damn painful to have that, as well as the evolving and raw painful emotions of the first month or so of the ordeal staring me in the face.

-Paladin


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## B1 (Jun 14, 2012)

Glad to see a happy 1 year update from someone. Glad to see the movies are gone for the most part and things feel normal.

Breaking NC after 6 months bothers me though, that was her reason?
I am at 6 months today.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

betrayed1 said:


> Glad to see a happy 1 year update from someone. Glad to see the movies are gone for the most part and things feel normal.
> 
> Breaking NC after 6 months bothers me though, that was her reason?
> I am at 6 months today.


Thank you for the kind words. She broke NC by sending the OM two emails one week apart. Both were reported to me the day they were sent, although after the fact. Both were discussed in our MC sessions and had the potential to be deal breakers. The only reason they were not deal breakers was because I chose to give her the benefit of the doubt. The emails were very short, and were basically at the heart of the matter, P's attempts to further punish herself because I triggered pretty hard at the 6 month mark. The first email was a three or four liner saying something like "I hope you are ok and followed up with your plans to go back to school." The second was "my husband made me write that last email" 

I asked her to write an email after she reported the first NC to me that said "it was a mistake to contact you, it hurt my husband, and you are not allowed to contact me in any way, because contact with you breaks my agreement with my husband and puts my recovery efforts at risk"

So she did, then sent another saying I made her write that. Again followed up with "don't contact me"

It made me paranoid for about a month, and I went through a phase of checking up on her on a daily basis. 

I must admit I was a wreck at the six month mark, and probably made her feel like ****, I was dealing with another uncomfortable date, the one year anniversary of my grandmas passing, and was not coping well at all. 

I never felt like the NC breach was an attempt to restart the A, I guess that's why it wasn't too hard to move beyond it. The OMs silence also solidified in her mind that the entire thing was exactly what it looked like at face value. A cheap thrill, and not the "soulmate" experience she thought it could have been while she was in the fog.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

It is great to hear that you are both doing well, but I have to say that I don't get the breaking of NC either....if you were triggering and having a difficult time, that should have been the last thing on her mind. Now if she was full of hatred for him for being part of the affair and lashed out at him in a violent way - I might almost get and accept that, but from what you wrote, it seems like she was hoping to just ge a response from him. I don't mean to make you think too much, but my hubs and I are in great R mode, and the thought is always in the back of your mind that anything is possible.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Good for you, I'm glad you guys are working out.

For what its worth I went thru the same crap, Her last OM went fishing a month after D-day but she didn't respond and then another OM from years ago went fishing and she actually got into an arguement about honesty with this POS. The OM from years past was almost a deal breaker cuz of the extent of the conversation, but after reading the text I was pretty pissed at OM for how insulting he was towards my fWW and so was my fWW.

The fact that all these guys and toxic friend come out of the wood work, weeks and months after d-day can be trying, but we got thru it.

Anyway, been there done that and now here I am 3 year mark and things couldn't be better.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

LookingForTheSun said:


> It is great to hear that you are both doing well, but I have to say that I don't get the breaking of NC either....if you were triggering and having a difficult time, that should have been the last thing on her mind. Now if she was full of hatred for him for being part of the affair and lashed out at him in a violent way - I might almost get and accept that, but from what you wrote, it seems like she was hoping to just ge a response from him. I don't mean to make you think too much, but my hubs and I are in great R mode, and the thought is always in the back of your mind that anything is possible.


She was guilty and scared when she did it. She knew I was hurting because of her actions, and that caused her to feel guilt. She was also scared that I would be that way for the rest of my life, always hurt and triggering. In MC we examined how much the A was an escape for her, like a drug to escape from reality, so I agree with you, she was probably hoping for a response, she craved an escape from her feelings and the situation, and went back to try and get that escape from some type of contact with the OM.

Its obviously impossible to boil the complexity of the situation to a few paragraphs, but she tried her best to be there for me during that time, I was not making it easy for her, and she slipped up. She tried to repair the damage as best as she could. She knew she did the wrong thing, came to me, and told me, knowing that I could have potentially kicked her to the curb. That meant a lot to me. I didn't have to find out by seeing it in her sent box, or some other way, I found out from her, that defused the situation greatly.

She does hate the OM in a lot of ways. She hates him for the damage her A did to me and our marriage, she hates him for how he took advantage of the situation, and a multitude of other things. However, and this part did take a while for me to process in IC, some parts of her A made her feel good (obviously or why do it right?) and she can't make herself "unfeel" those feelings/highs. Its enough for me that she can acknowledge the fact that just because something felt good/pleasurable doesn't meant it was correct to do it/indulge.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Great update. I'm two years ahead, except I only commited to stay around nine moths after DDay. I think you are doing just fine.

Thanks for sharing.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> P struggles with what she did.* I think she has a harder time with forgiving herself than I had forgiving her. She understands what kind of pain she caused me, and sometimes has a hard time living with the guilt of it.*
> 
> *I do my best to comfort her during those moments. *
> 
> ...


Just don't buy too much of this..This seems to be a common theme with BS(men in particular.). Yes, she is repentant and is working to repair the marriage but nothing more or nothing less. Especially after she broke NC. You are trying to see everything in a positive light but please don't force the positivity.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

warlock07 said:


> Just don't buy too much of this..This seems to be a common theme with BS(men in particular.). Yes, she is repentant and is working to repair the marriage but nothing more or nothing less. Especially after she broke NC. You are trying to see everything in a positive light but please don't force the positivity.


I tend not to force anything, but I certainly appreciate the advice of caution. As far as comforting her, it does not involve me taking on the blame for her affair. She is actually pretty proactive in making sure there is no blame shifting for the A. The problems leading up to the A occurring have been addressed in IC/MC and we have both made adjustments where needed to facilitate a new and healthy relationship.


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## megmg (Sep 30, 2012)

Great to see so many doing well, working hard so one day I or my BW can also post positives. Keep living and working hard at marriage.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

Paladin said:


> The first email was a three or four liner saying something like "I hope you are ok and followed up with your plans to go back to school." The second was "my husband made me write that last email"
> 
> I asked her to write an email after she reported the first NC to me that said "it was a mistake to contact you, it hurt my husband, and you are not allowed to contact me in any way, because contact with you breaks my agreement with my husband and puts my recovery efforts at risk"
> 
> ...


Paladin, I just saw your post in Neverknew thread a got interested in your story and read it, I don't know why I am posting because for one part I know that my comment is nothing but negative, and as you said in your latest posts, you are happy you have succesfully reconciled and at this point any action of the past is just a memory I guess.

but when I read about the she breaking the NC I really got angry and distraught becuase as you said, he not responding him shoes her that her hope for being something more that a cheap thrill is a lie, and he really isn't her soulmate

but what if?, what if he had responded her telling her that he loved her, obviously that was her intention, proving that she was more than a thrill, so what she had done if the answer would have been yes and if he had suggested to leave you, I mean the simply fact she contacted him waiting for an answer and later she wanted to clarify him that she didn't want to enforce the NC make me emitionally hurt for you because I feel that you were plan B.

I know that after 3 years of reconcilation my words are nothing but damaging, and I normally avoid posting in this kind of situation, I don't know why I couldn't stop myself this time.

I wish you the best, and I sincerily hope that you wife realizes the uncommon and precious that second chanceds are (when it comes to infedelity), and I hope she is treating you now as you deserve.


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## davecarter (Aug 15, 2013)

Paladin said:


> I've been meaning to give the TAM community an update for some time now, but things have been hectic in my personal life so I've had a hard time sitting down and actually doing it.
> 
> Dday was actually Oct 9th of last year, so its been a bit longer than a year.
> 
> ...


You constantly refer to your wife as 'P' ('Partner') as opposed to 'W' ('Wife').
Is there any psychological reasoning for this? i.e. you say the 'old marriage is dead and gone', so therefore, you don't see her as a 'wife'?


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

Continued discussion about those e-mails during subsequent conversations and counseling sessions solidified my belief that they were a product of inappropriate and mostly broken coping skills. My P suffers from major depressive disorder and used to self harm, mainly burning herself and substance abuse, to cope with stressful or negative events. I was hurting at the time and she felt hopeless, she knew breaking NC was out of bounds, and did it because she wanted to be punished/hurt. 

Essentially her EA/PA occurred for very similar reasons. I've deleted my original thread because it contained a detailed description of the day she attempted suicide and called me to say goodbye, and it was counter-productive to constantly reread that as well as the pain I was going through in the first few months. Her main motivation for the A was to alienate me and drive me away so she could commit suicide without anyone trying to talk her out of it. The POSOM also had suicidal ideation, and his continued insistence that she did not need medication, along with his constant focus on death and dying was what I believe caught her attention in the first place.

Her commitment to transparency is what made her confess the emails to me, and at no point in this process have I ever felt like her plan B.

She has posted on this forum a few times, once I felt she was at a point in her recovery that she could handle reading the posts in this section, I helped her make an account. Paladin's Pride is her screen name here.

Your comments did not come off as negative BTW. I do not shy away from exploring any and every topic/question when it comes to this issue, and all points of view are valuable to me. I take this stuff very seriously, and so does she. I am grateful for your empathy, and I am sure if she could say something to you to ease some of the pain you felt on my behalf, she would gladly do so. She has yet to fully forgive herself for the A, and still actively works on making sure I know she is thinking about it. In fact, her apologizing to me for the billionth time a few days ago, prompted me to come back here and work on updating the community on our 3 year old (give or take a bit of time) reconciliation. 

I love her deeply, and feel deeply loved by her. I am grateful that she took the steps necessary to make reconciliation a possibility, and cherish every moment we spend together. She has never stopped thanking me for the chance to R, it is a gift she never takes for granted. I never stop thanking her for her efforts, even when those efforts are beyond hard and uncomfortable.

I hope to have the updated thread done in a day or two, I'm not sure if she is going to be posting any time soon, as we are dealing with a ton of other life stress right now, but I will approach her about it and see if she is up to contributing. 

Thank you for your interest and comments manticore.

-P

@ Dave Carter

We both believe in co-equal relationships, if you look up some of my posts, especially ones where I am critical of the approaches outlined in the MMSL, you will understand a bit more about why I do this. She still calls me husband, and I still call her wife at home, in bed etc., but it feels awkward to refer to her as my FWS or FWW, and the term spouse feels a bit clinical to me, so Partner felt like a good fit for talking about her on this forum and other "formal" conversation. Sometimes the term "wife" can carry an implicit limitation to the agency of the person being discussed because it implies that the person is simply a possession of someone else. Obviously not all instances of people being called "wife" allude to that distinction, but I guess I err on the side of caution/equality because I do not know who will be reading what I am writing and what those people think the term "wife" means. Hope that clears it up a bit.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Paladin said:


> I've been meaning to give the TAM community an update for some time now, but things have been hectic in my personal life so I've had a hard time sitting down and actually doing it.
> 
> Dday was actually Oct 9th of last year, so its been a bit longer than a year.
> 
> ...


I deleted my original thread too, so I'd never have to read it again.

Six months into your R, she tried to contact him via email? Two times, and he never replied? What were her intentions if he replied, and why would she want to contact him if she was feeling so much guilt and remorse about causing you pain? How did you find out?

I'm glad you're in such a great place, I'm not trying to drag you down, just wondering how and why... I think if my WS reached out to her OM six months into R, that would create quite the backslide in our progress..

Edit: Just continued reading and see you answered.... Wow.. yea, that'd derail things, her needing to reach out to him shows she still cared about him and saw him as a friend/lover, whatever... not the person that helped destroy her marriage, used her for selfish reasons, lied to her etc.. sounds like she has fond memories of him.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Paladin said:


> Thank you for the kind words. She broke NC by sending the OM two emails one week apart. Both were reported to me the day they were sent, although after the fact. Both were discussed in our MC sessions and had the potential to be deal breakers. The only reason they were not deal breakers was because I chose to give her the benefit of the doubt. The emails were very short, and were basically at the heart of the matter, P's attempts to further punish herself because I triggered pretty hard at the 6 month mark. The first email was a three or four liner saying something like "I hope you are ok and followed up with your plans to go back to school." The second was "my husband made me write that last email"
> 
> I asked her to write an email after she reported the first NC to me that said "it was a mistake to contact you, it hurt my husband, and you are not allowed to contact me in any way, because contact with you breaks my agreement with my husband and puts my recovery efforts at risk"
> 
> ...


The NC breach was exactly her trying to restart the A.. it was her, contacting him, why do you think she'd need/want to contact him again? Did she expect he'd contact her back? I think you're fooling yourself if you thought she didn't want to hear from him... She needed to verify that he wasn't her soul mate? What if he contacted her, and said he was her soul mate? So she just had to put her feelers out there, and find out if he could fluff her ego one more time.. 

You were in your six month 'rage' phase, and she stayed strong by contacting her OM... way to be there for you.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

Paladin,

I am very glad to hear that you too are doing better and well. I agree with Russell. The reaching out was definitely a 'don't let our affair' die reach out.

...but not everyone is super strong and we all have weaknesses and faults. She fell, but she picked herself back up and looks like she is on the right path. I am glad she seems to finally have made it. I wish you two the very best. Good luck and God Bless.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

@Russel

I certainly hope you've never had to deal with a family member that suffered from mental health issues, it is very challenging at times, and sometimes involves accepting uncomfortable and scary crap. Part of P's mental health issues included very negative and dysfunctional coping mechanisms/skills which manifested in her doing things to harm herself when she felt emotionally overwhelmed. The act of self harming was a way for her to avoid dealing with emotional/stressful events. 

If her intentions were truly to restart her A with her former AP, the end goal would have been major self harm/death. When a person suffers from the type of issues she suffers from, guilt triggers circular thinking, and the circular thinking revolves around the idea of being a "bad" person.

"I had an affair, I'm a bad person, I deserve to be punished."

Once the circular thinking occurs enough times the brain attempts to validate the thoughts, or the person seeks relief from the thoughts through some type of action, in her case, self harm. Her A was an escape from life for her, in a very literal sense, she thought that it would lead to her death and relief from uncomfortable feelings. She used it to cope, and as many people who have dysfunctional coping skills, took a while to relearn how to cope with negative or stressful emotion in a more positive way.

If you were to ask her to reflect on the A and her former AP today, there would not even be a hint of positivity in her language about those events. In fact, we are both careful to never cite the actual affair for allowing us to have a healthier relationship now. Instead, we credit, and focus on the commitment and work that we both willingly wanted to do to make sure nothing like that ever happened again as the positive thing that improved our lives.

Do I think she wanted a reply to her emails at the time? Yes. Do I think it was because she wanted to cake eat? No. She wanted to escape her feelings, and defaulted to using dysfunctional behavior to do so. The end goal was self harm, and a desire to be punished. I know that her actions were not fully thought out, and were mostly reactionary, and if she got a reply from him I would have expected her to tell me, and I know she would have. 

Would I willingly choose to deal with a breach in NC like that? Absolutely not, it was very close to being a deal breaker for me and I considered ending R. However, true R requires understanding and compassion and most importantly forgiveness. I thought about it for quite some time when it happened and decided that in the grand scheme of things, her screwing up and telling me she did so, was not enough of a reason to rob myself of the chance to have a functional and healthy relationship with a woman I cared about. A woman that was faithful for the vast majority of her time with me, who was doing everything in her power at the time to mend the damage caused by her choices, and obviously loved me. I have a high standard for her, but certainly not an unreasonable one, everyone is capable of learning from screwing up, and she has thus far been willing to do so.

I do hope she chimes in on some of this stuff over the next few days, as I mentioned above, her screen name here is Paladin's Pride.

@MovingAhead 

I respectfully disagree, but I dont entirely dismiss your point of view. As I mention in my reply to Russel, if her intentions were really to try and continue the A, the only reason to do so would have been rooted in her desire to be punished/hurt/killed and her inability to accept the fact that she was worth the forgiveness and chance for R that I gave her.

Yes it took some time for her to develop better less dysfunctional coping skills, but I certainly had my share of work to do to make positive changes, and it was not over night.

Deleting the original thread is a double edge sword, it certainly helps with moving forward, but makes subsequent discussion of the topic more difficult to frame. Hopefully I dont slack to long on writing the update, as CWI always needs some positivity sprinkled into it to help dilute some of the pain, and provide some hope and comfort to others wondering if things ever get better.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Paladin,

I remember your original thread. You and I have had discussions and disagreements at times but always respectful and productive. I want you to know that I did get a little teary eyed reading your responses. I can feel the deep love you have for your partner and obviously she has that same level of deep feeling enough to inspire you to reconcile and create a new better relationship with her. If Paladin's Pride reads this I want her to know that she IS worthy of your love and commitment. She IS worthy of happiness and joy. I wish you both all the best and continued contentment.

P.S. I was going to quote Shakespeare but I thought better of it.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Not too familiar with your story, but thought I should warn you that the second year is often the hardest. Lots of reasons for that, but it has a lot to do with no longer being in the reactive mode and dealing with a personal crisis. So, you start thinking more and more about ‘the future’ while this past is still a fairly fresh wound. It’s scary, confusing, and very much about you and what you want out of life. 

Part of the scary is that things start returning to ‘normal’ meaning they start looking like they did ‘before’. You know how that story ended, so ‘normal’ isn’t a good feeling. It’s just loaded with anxiety and ‘what if’. Your mind will be really stretching trying to find something ‘wrong’ because that ‘normal’ is a trigger and foreboding of what might happen again. When those little attacks happen, just start talking to your wife and describing what you are going through. If she’s got the right stuff, she’ll help. If not, you’ll start hearing things like “aren’t you ever going to get past this?” and “how long are you going to sabotage this marriage and what we are rebuilding?”.. 

I wish you the best.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

I vaguely remember your original thread...I think. 

When the APs have a deep emotional connection, or at least one of the APs have a deep emotional connection, usually fishing is bound to happen. One of them will attempt to contact the other, it can be something as simple as "Hi" or "How are you?". The BS has to decide how much of a deal breaker that would be. 

I would be lying if I said my R was smooth, because it wasn't. OM attempted to fish twice, but I intercepted it. I have not detected any attempts on my fWWs to fish, and believe me, I was in Hypervigilance mode and looking at everything. 

But it looks like she has really been doing the heavy lifting and is showing True Remorse, which is something rare in these forums. IMHO, the prognosis looks very good. I'm happy for you. Its good to read a success story once in a while.


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## Paladin's Pride (May 7, 2013)

Hello everyone,

I just wanted to chime in here and say how humbled I am by the gracious and insightful comments that forum members have posted on this thread. I’ve been looking over Paladin’s shoulder as he has been posting for the last few hours, and have read your comments on this and other threads in the CWI section. 

First, let me say that I am grateful every day that Paladin chose to commit to R with me; I know I did not make it easy for him, given my awful choices, actions, and attitude while I was in the midst of my A. I am so, so lucky that he is willing to stick by me, despite my many faults. I know that he has not only had to deal with the hurt that I inflicted, but also had to contend with my mental health issues. I have done my very best to be there for him, but I know that it hasn’t been easy for him to heal and also be there for me as I struggle constantly with my guilt, shame, and remorse. The disgust that I feel for what I did cannot be encompassed with words. I have NO fond memories of my A; I feel nauseous and sick when I think about how careless I was with the gift of marriage that my partner gave me. 

I am so ashamed that after everything I did, he still has to be supportive of me, though he would argue that being supportive is an aspect of any healthy marriage, while in the process of R or not. If I could go back in time and change my actions so that he would not experience the pain that he did, I would do it. I tend to fixate on the What Ifs, but Paladin takes the time to remind me that the past is the past and that we should focus on the present so as to make the best future for ourselves as possible.

I am happy to say that we have 100% transparency in our relationship, though I can understand how some might find it questionable given my breaking the NC agreement six months into our R. I know that Paladin has explained my mental health issues at length earlier in the thread, but there is truly NO EXCUSE for what I did. I consider myself blessed that Paladin chose to work on our marriage; he had every right to kick me to the curb for the A and its aftermath. At the same time, a condition of our R is that I eventually come to terms and accept what I did, in order for us both to move forward and live a happy life. I cannot say that I am there yet; I feel like I have not yet done enough to assuage the pain and suffering he experienced because of me. 
Paladin has full access to all of my accounts, and I regularly ask him if he would like to see either my phone or my computer and encourage him to check even if I’m not around. I ask him if there is anything that I can do or change to improve our relationship, and he takes the time to do the same for me. Communication is a vital aspect of our relationship, and learning to interpret each others' love languages was instrumental in clarifying many of the misunderstandings of the past, as well as any misunderstandings that have arisen over the course of our R.

I know that I still have more work to do in terms of helping him cope with my past infidelity. I am not a religious person, but I have faith in our relationship and know that we can get through this together. But I am not resting on my laurels. I’m not sure if I ever will, lest anything like what happened before happen again. The posts on this thread questioning my actions in regard to the NC agreement are a valuable tool for me: they help me to stay vigilant and be proactive about any potential red flags that may come up in regard to either one of us.

Bfree, all I can say is thank you. Please know that YOUR post made ME teary-eyed. My first instinct is to say that I do not deserve such a response, but I am trying, everyday, to see and understand that I am not perfect, people make mistakes, and that one of the most amazing things that one can do for another person is to offer forgiveness. So thank you once again for your kindness. It means so much to me.

To close, I just want to repeat something that I said to Paladin earlier. I am so sorry for all of the pain that BSs have experienced as a result of their partners’ affairs. I wish I could take away the pain that you feel, but I know that mere words cannot encompass the depth of emotion that comes about as a result of infidelity. Please stay strong and know that you are in my thoughts.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

IT is nice to see that Paladin and P-pride are doing well. I do remember your story and wondered where it went. Keep up the good work you two.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

On a side note, how did the couple do that you found out was cheating and you were considering telling the betrayed husband?

Good luck and prayers for your continued success.

Chap


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## notblameless (Jan 22, 2014)

Thanks for posting this. I have posted my story of cheating on my husband. He has known about it for 2 years and we are trying to work through it.
Since he found out, he has kept secret emails, signed on to adult websites, and even spent time texting other women (flirting). Did you do anything like that out of hurt or anger?
I'm just curious as to feelings he may have that I dont understand.

You seem to be very forgiving and I am so glad to hear things are working out for your marriage. I understand your wife's feelings of regret. I know the pain she feels for hurting you!


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

notblameless said:


> ..
> Since he found out, he has kept secret emails, signed on to adult websites, and even spent time texting other women (flirting). Did you do anything like that out of hurt or anger?
> I'm just curious as to feelings he may have that I dont understand.
> 
> You seem to be very forgiving and I am so glad to hear things are working out for your marriage. I understand your wife's feelings of regret. I know the pain she feels for hurting you!


At the very early stages of this whole process, I did not share certain details with her, such as meeting with divorce lawyers, my membership to this forum and an e-mail account to go with it, but as it became clear that she was committed to R, I was as open with her as I expected her to be with me. Transparency is non negotiable in both directions, it is an absolute must, there is no room in a healthy marriage for secrets of any kind.

Him keeping a secret email account, visiting adult web sites (assuming those sites were/are not in line with your views on what is acceptable ie 1 on 1 chat, live cam, dating/hookup sites) and inappropriate texting, are all major red flags and need to be addressed as soon as possible.

Some of the most difficult advice to give to a fWS is that they must be 100% committed to a healthy marriage, and that means standing up for what is and is not acceptable even if you were the person that initially messed up and come off hypocritical doing so. Anything less simply demonstrates that you still have not learned to cherish your marriage and dont want to protect it. 

You do not deserve to be treated as you describe. Two wrongs never make a right. Please explain to him that since youve come to understand that a marriage needs to be worked on and protected, you feel his behavior is out of line and needs to stop. Be specific about the issues you are concerned with, and clearly lay out your boundaries. 

The hardest part in all of this, is accepting that you want to make things right, fix the damage, and have a healthy relationship, but you will never be able to do it on your own. He may have been so hurt by your actions that he wants to hurt you as well, and I dont see how the situation can ever be fixed if such toxic behavior continues and is tolerated. 

Imagine what message it sends to him when you are willing to be treated this way? What does he think your self worth is? Trust me I understand the desire to be punished for doing something wrong, but it should never happen at the expense of your marriage.

I think since you are here seeking advice you are an understanding person. I doubt there are any aspects of his emotions that you do not understand. What may be happening is you understand his emotions but feel like you deserve to be treated that way, or are unable to bring yourself to accept that he may be trying to punish you inappropriately and acting like a jerk in the process.

The affair is 100% on the person choosing to have it. The problems leading up to that misguided choice are usually 50/50. If he is unwilling to examine his part in the breakdown of your relationship and actively work to fix the toxic behavior, your reconciliation doesnt stand a chance. You can't R if one person is not putting in the work it takes to make it happen. Thats why I say divorce is usually easier than reconciliation.

I hope I've addressed your questions, feel free to ask any follow up questions you may have.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

Chaparral said:


> On a side note, how did the couple do that you found out was cheating and you were considering telling the betrayed husband?
> 
> Good luck and prayers for your continued success.
> 
> Chap


I sent him an anonymous email detailing everything I knew about the situation, and left the account up for him to ask any questions he might have. I sent a follow up e-mail a month later, but have not received a reply to either one. I am debating sending him the email via fax and washing my hands of the situation. 

I know without a shadow of a doubt that had that situation occurred after our R began, P-Pride would have never promised to keep that woman's secret, and I would have certainly insisted that the information be passed along to her husband immediately.

As I mention often, I had to do quite a bit of growing myself throughout this process, and my outlook on protecting what a marriage is supposed to be has shifted significantly. I feel ashamed that I ever thought it was none of our business and understand first hand how important it is to find out about infidelity as soon as possible. The more time that goes by, the fewer chances there are to fix the issue.

I strongly feel that because P-Pride came to me and confessed her affair without being prompted, I was able to be more understanding an less hurt throughout the entire ordeal.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Paladin, what are your deal breakers at this point ?

My first thought after reading about two broken NC and confessions next day are



> PP only confessed about the broken NC only because she felt rejected by the OM when he did not contact her back after receiving her message and felt incredible guilt about it.


PP, can you tell us a bit about the OM's suicide ideation that your husband mentioned if you are comfortable with it. Hope you are in a better mental space these days 

Your husband has incredible love for you. Most men would have cut and run after the events he posted in the first thread and no one would blame them for doing so. Maybe he can keep doing it only because he can see that you too are very hugely committed to fix this.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

warlock07 said:


> Paladin, what are your deal breakers at this point ?


Very good question. If I'm being a hard liner, anything short of total commitment to a healthy marriage, including holding me accountable for inappropriate behavior and expecting the same in return. In reality, probably seeing her give up on herself and accepting the status quo, but it is a very difficult question to answer as a person never truly knows where the breaking point is. I mean how often do people here say "I would never stay with him/her if they cheat" yet when it happens, sometimes those viewpoints shift. 


The breaches in NC were confessed the same day they occurred and complied with my boundaries of being informed if that was to ever happen. From what I can remember, I was told before there would have been any real chance for the OM to respond, so the confessions were not prompted by the OMs rejection of her, but by her desire to be punished. She felt like a bad person, and I suppose needed to act accordingly to fit that notion of herself at the time. She did not feel like she deserved forgiveness so she attempted to sabotage the process.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Sabotaging reconciliation is more common than one would think. It's good that you were able to look deeper and realize why it happened. I think most times the BS just ends the reconciliation process. Your love for her is quite evident.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Paladin,

First things first -- LOVE the name. Now you need an avatar (or should I say tabard...?). May I suggest something bold and gold on a field of azure? (Ha, sorry. I've played Paladins in DnD and have leveled 5 different Paladins in WoW. I guess I'm a Paladin fanatic.)

Anyway, it sounds like you and your wife are doing relatively well w/ your reconciliation. That's certainly great to hear. I wish you guys all the best.

For the Light!

(Sorry, had to do it...  )


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

GusPolinski said:


> Paladin,
> 
> First things first -- LOVE the name.....
> Anyway, it sounds like you and your wife are doing relatively well w/ your reconciliation. That's certainly great to hear. I wish you guys all the best.
> ...





WiKi said:


> Paladin: The paladins, sometimes known as the Twelve Peers, were the foremost warriors of Charlemagne's court, according to the literary cycle known as the Matter of France.They first appear in the early chansons de geste such as The Song of Roland, where they represent Christian valor against the Saracen hordes. The paladins and their associated exploits are largely later fictional inventions, with some basis on historical Frankish retainers of the 8th century and events such as the Battle of Roncevaux Pass and the confrontation of the Frankish Empire with Umayyad Al-Andalus in the Marca Hispanica.
> 
> By the 13th century words referring specifically to Charlemagne's peers began appearing in European languages; the earliest is the Italian paladino. Modern French has paladin, Spanish has paladín or paladino (reflecting alternate derivations from the French and Italian), while German has Paladin. By extension "paladin" has come to refer to any chivalrous hero such as King Arthur's Knights of the Round Table.


Thank you for the kind words of support. We both appreciate it very much.

[*geek*]

You know it really only dawned on me after the fact that DnD or WoW would get mentioned at some point in time. You are the first BTW since I've registered here... you win a free BoK on the house  In my head I'm seeing an angry NE pure holy priest counting pennies while watching pallys prance around on their free mounts. My bro and I ran a top tier holy priest on stormreaver, its been so damn long I cant even remember the guild now, just remember selling him and a mage for $700+ when I quit at the very subtle request of my wife. 

Amazing how easy it used to be to justify burning 4 hours per night 5 days a week raiding. The idea of spending that kind of time on a hobby like that is alien to me now. I took time to bring this up because non casual WoW play has been known to ruin relationships, and in case anyone is in limbo or on the fence with an issue like that, please consider trying to give WoW a break and invest 50% of that time into doing something with your partner, you wont regret it. The worst time you could possibly have live with the person you love will always trump even the best time you could ever have staring into a monitor.

[/*geek*]


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Paladin said:


> Amazing how easy it used to be to justify burning 4 hours per night 5 days a week raiding. The idea of spending that kind of time on a hobby like that is alien to me now. I took time to bring this up because non casual WoW play has been known to ruin relationships, and in case anyone is in limbo or on the fence with an issue like that, please consider trying to give WoW a break and invest 50% of that time into doing something with your partner, you wont regret it. The worst time you could possibly have live with the person you love will always trump even the best time you could ever have staring into a monitor.


100% correct


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Damn, I thought the Paladin you were referring to was from HAVE GUN WILL TRAVEL.

Many, many threads here about gaming affairs destroying relationships. Also, one spouse on the computer all the time gaming has been a big excuse for straying.


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## Paladin's Pride (May 7, 2013)

warlock07 said:


> PP, can you tell us a bit about the OM's suicide ideation that your husband mentioned if you are comfortable with it. Hope you are in a better mental space these days
> 
> Your husband has incredible love for you. Most men would have cut and run after the events he posted in the first thread and no one would blame them for doing so. Maybe he can keep doing it only because he can see that you too are very hugely committed to fix this.


Thanks so much for taking the time to respond. I discussed your question extensively with Paladin, and at one point we came to the conclusion that any time spent thinking about the OM or his toxicity would be a waste, in the sense that he himself is a waste of life. 

At the same time, however, we recognize that it might somehow be beneficial for others to read, so that they can be sure to avoid and protect themselves against engaging with anyone like this in the future.

***The next paragraph might be graphic or a trigger for some, so please be advised.***

He was obsessed with music/literature/images of death and dying. He would dress in black whenever he could and the things he would talk about were typically morbid in nature. He would express his fantasies of driving off to a field somewhere and having the both of us killing ourselves. He would also tell me how he had thoughts of slicing me open and holding my heart in his hands. As someone actively planning and considering suicide, I thought that he would be the perfect person to help me end my life. 

I can't believe how stupid this sounds to me now. . . It makes me want to vomit. Honestly, what was I even thinking? 

I've come across a concept recently that really speaks to his behavior: learned helplessness. By choosing to repeat and reinforce this script that he believed to be true about himself--i.e. that he was a victim, that life was unfair and everyone was out to get him, and that anything he does is doomed to failure--he was demonstrating his unwillingness to change or improve in any way. 

Before committing to NC, I asked the AP to accompany me and my husband, or to go by himself, to counseling, but he would always refuse, and would follow up by saying that I wasn't sick, and that I didn't need counseling or medication. He would emphasize that I was fine and that he loved me just the way I was. Sure, it was nice to hear, but completely ignored the severe medical issues I was having at the time. 

I only wish I could have seen then the truth of his words and actions for what they really were: an attempt to get laid. All I could see then was a person willing to facilitate and/or even accompany me on the road to death. I felt like I had been and was continuing to be a burden on my family: my husband first and foremost, and next my mother, father, and sister. 

This is going to sound like I was crazy (a word that my partner hates me using), which I believe I was, but my illogical thought process was this: by looking to someone other than my partner, I was somehow saving him from the pain and suffering of having to help me die. Now I can see that what I did was so much worse. Paladin not only had to experience my suicide attempt, but also the betrayal that came about because of my A.

Thank you so much for your supportive words above. This forum means so much to me, and everyone that I have come into contact with has had something valuable for me to learn and/or think about.


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