# Talk me back into it



## loopy lu (Oct 30, 2013)

My marriage...ugh. Im just over it. 

Married 8 years, together 13. He is 39, Im 36.

3 BEAUTIFUL AMAZING kids (DS6, DS3 and DD 4mo).

He is a good man, a great Dad, but pretty freakin lazy as a husband. Doesnt try, doesnt put in any effort. Expects our relationship to be self reliant and organic without us needing to do anything about it. 

I used to do nice things for him. He travels for work a bit, he would come home from a long trip with wife in the kitchen cooking the favourite meal, little black dress, heels, lingerie..Little notes with his lunch...dirty text messages during the day with promises for when he got home...organising holidays and getaways...buying his special stuff for the bedroom....took it all for granted. Didnt give a crap. NEVER reciprocated. SO I stopped doing it. 

He doesnt do as much around the house as I do. Doesnt cook. Doesnt wash clothes. Doesnt do much for the day to day cleaning/organising of the house. Its left me deflated and resentful. When Im not on maternity leave, I work a full time job and then come home to put in another full time effort. 

Doesnt make much of an effort for birthdays. Asks me what I want as a gift. Doesnt work to hard to get something. Not much thought. Forgot the last anniversary. Dont do valentines. Didnt get me anything for my first mothers day. Always rushing at the last minute to get me something. Im usually waiting on the morning of for my gift because he's late getting the kids to sign my card. Master of prcrastination.

Things were getting not-so-great in the bedroom after first DS. He complained a lot. I got back with the program, tried extra hard (what with full time work, studying a double degree part time plus parenting). But nevertheless, it was ME who hunted the internet for inspiratiion to spice things up, it was ME who put in an order of toys, it was ME who opened up to the idea of spicing things up. He got $hitty because he doesnt like the idea of toys in the bedroom. He feels insecure. He has a premature ejaculation problem, which he has ALWAYS had and refused to do anything about. He says Im the best he has ever had. To me, its kinda just meh. I stopped wanting sex because it was hardly worth the effort for me. Actually, its not that I stopped wanting sex. I stopped wanting it WITH HIM. Most times its more palatable for me to get drunk first. 

We have both put on some weight in the last few years. For me, I just had 3 babies in 5 years. Mine is coming off. He has put on about 30kg, and just keeps going. Eats bad, eats too much poor choices, no exercise. He doesnt try to look presentable when we go to BBQs and parties. I have to nag him to cut his hair FFS...Almost 40 years old and he just doesnt give a chit.

So, I have felt myself withdraw from him a lot. A LOT. Ive tried a few things to reignite something but to be honest, Ive now given up. 4 weeks ago I lost the plot when he was out of town. We had a long talk about how I am at the end of my rope with the marriage. He flip flopped between being adamant he doesnt want the marriage to end to anger and accusing me of always going straight to the divorce option and 'threatening' him with it. Its not a threat. The only reason I havent bolted is kids and finances. Thats it. I told him Ive given up trying, we need counselling, but its on him. Im not trying anymore. I will organise some IC for me, and that will help me come to my decisions, with or without him. 

He still has not organised MC. So. freaking. lazy. 

Im trying not to make any big decisions in the first year after a new baby. I will give it until I return to work next year, but I seriously fantasize about packing the kids up and getting the crap out of here. He doesn't even touch me anymore except to reach across when he's horny and then its just a grab on the boob, then straight to the crotch for mechanical, routine sex. 

God, I need to stop talking. This is too long already and it's just making me feel more crap. Ugh.


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## Keenwa (Oct 26, 2013)

Hi there,

Sounds a lot like my marriage. All the same details. I gave up about 3 years ago, planning things etc.. dates, yada yaday... he didn't notice. I told him 6 months ago I was done, he was completely "shocked" had "no idea". I told him it wasn't an ultimatum... he asked me to do some counselling. So we are doing that now. I still feel the same, though he has improved a lot as a father and a husband in the sense of helping around the house... our relationship is still in the toilet. 

I'm confused though, you said you want to wait till you have another baby? You want another baby with him and then you will leave him? :scratchhead:

I know for my H he thought everything was hunky dory because I think he saw his marriage as a thing, you know "I've got a great life", like your life is an object that you have. I don't think he wants to let go of that "life".. but I really don't think he loves me though he says he loves me to bits. I don't get it at all. I still feel that way after 6 months of MC, and personal counselling. But at least the counselling has helped us to learn to communicate and I think he is a much better parent now...

I guess I'm at the place where I feel that once we've given up, it's really hard to come back from that. Because it's years and years of frustration. I have learned through counselling that I guess I haven't communicated with him, even though I thought I was, all the times I said "I'd just like you to plan a date one time... the babysitting the plans etc", or when he asked me what I wanted for my birthday I answered "I just don't want to have to plan my own birthday". Anyhow, after years and years of picking up the slack it's hard to even trust that he will ever pick it up... even if he tries for a little while. That's where I'm at now. If my husband had started doing all the things he's doing now, 10 years ago, I'd have thought it was great! But it's too little too late. I feel like it's like living with an alchoholic who you've known for 20 years as an alcoholic and then he stops drinking for 2 months and you're supposed to believe he will be like that the rest of his life because he has now "seen the light",... kinda hard to believe.


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## Kolors (Sep 27, 2013)

I didn't notice my wife had given up until it was too late either. When she said she was done it rocked me. I guess I am like Keenwas husband, I've changed over the last few months to be a better husband and a much better father.

I believe that wife is also in the boat where she sees the changes but she still feels like I should have done it 5 years ago, before she decided that she was giving up.

The alcoholic reference is a good one and I can see why wives would feel that way. It basically comes down to faith. Can you believe that your husband loves you enough to make his changes permanent or do you believe he will forget about you again in a year after you let him back in?

If your husband cares to fix your relationship, he really needs to be the one to make that call for MC. I didn't hesitate, the day she said she was willing I made the call.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

The issue is not just whether or not he makes permanent changes, it's whether or not she is too far out of the marriage already.

There are ways to bring the love and passion back into a marriage. It takes work by both parties. In this case, the wife, has to be willing to do the work even though today she does not feel the love and desire to work on the marriage any more.

Actually it sounds like loop lu's husband is not at a point where he gets it either.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Lu,

Nothing to stop you from filing for divorce tomorrow. It is better to get the ball rolling than wait. After all if you procrastinate, your husband will dig an even deeper hole.

The reality of the divorce clock ticking will give your husband a few months to get his butt in gear. Print out your first post and take it to MC. 

At MC you tell your husband that he is free to critique you in turn. If he says you are great and he has no complaints, you can say that his lack of suggestions is a sign that he has been unengaged. 

Your husband has to, as Kolors has, take up the slack without talking ad nauseum. It will take time for you to believe in him again. However, it is certainly worth your while to see if you have gotten through. 

If your husband is on probation, you can at least feel that you are moving forward. If he falls flat or the fire is dead, at least you waste no time. 

I was like your husband. I wish I had understood my shortcomings earlier. I bet my ex wishes I had sorted myself out. She has an LTR and a couple of boyfriends, but nothing lasting.

You are not too old to remarry. Press your husband but get MC to get him to understand that giving up is weak

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Why the hell should I talk you back into THAT??


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## loopy lu (Oct 30, 2013)

Keenwa said:


> I'm confused though, you said you want to wait till you have another baby? You want another baby with him and then you will leave him? :scratchhead:


No no no no no! We just had our last baby 4 months ago. I am on 12 months maternity leave, so am giving that time to sort of do the 180 and make some decisions. He was SUPPOSED to get a vasectomy months ago, butters hasn't done that either. 

I will come back to reply, But right now the WiFi is down. Thanks all for taking the time to reply.


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## loopy lu (Oct 30, 2013)

Keenwa said:


> I know for my H he thought everything was hunky dory because I think he saw his marriage as a thing, you know "I've got a great life", like your life is an object that you have. I don't think he wants to let go of that "life".. but I really don't think he loves me though he says he loves me to bits. I don't get it at all. I still feel that way after 6 months of MC, and personal counselling. But at least the counselling has helped us to learn to communicate and I think he is a much better parent now...
> 
> I guess I'm at the place where I feel that once we've given up, it's really hard to come back from that. Because it's years and years of frustration. I have learned through counselling that I guess I haven't communicated with him, even though I thought I was, all the times I said "I'd just like you to plan a date one time... the babysitting the plans etc", or when he asked me what I wanted for my birthday I answered "I just don't want to have to plan my own birthday". Anyhow, after years and years of picking up the slack it's hard to even trust that he will ever pick it up... even if he tries for a little while. That's where I'm at now. If my husband had started doing all the things he's doing now, 10 years ago, I'd have thought it was great! But it's too little too late. I feel like it's like living with an alchoholic who you've known for 20 years as an alcoholic and then he stops drinking for 2 months and you're supposed to believe he will be like that the rest of his life because he has now "seen the light",... kinda hard to believe.


Exactly. Dont get me wrong, my husband has some good qualities. Hes a hands on involved Dad. He works hard. Hes a great son. But he is a really lazy lousy husband, and I just keep thinking "there's gotta be more to life than this!" 

I feel unappreciated, used, resentful and stressed out. 

We both have our FOO issues - Mine is abuse. I know what I need to do, and IM going to start IC to make myself a better mother and a better person. His FOO issues mean he is a nasty name caller, and the straw broke the camels back the other day when he called my 2 sons 'stupid'. He has called me plenty of things over the years (which I didnt take lying down) but I feel I need to draw the line for the kids. He thinks Im over-reacting. 

He was having such bad moods and foul tempers that I was having real anxiety issues and told him so. He took 4 weeks off work after our baby was born in July and After 2 weeks I had anxiety through the roof so bad I wanted him back at work. I was grateful (!!!) when a family member died which meant he had to return to work early. 

We had another discussion on the weekend. He tried to get some, and I just got frustrated at him trying to sweep everything under the rug and hope it would all go away. He wants the sex, but doesnt want to do the work on us. He pointed out that he has been in a better mood lately, which is true, But its only been a week or so. But the conversations was left with him saying "Just remember, this all just started because I was trying to get intimate with you"


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## loopy lu (Oct 30, 2013)

Kolors said:


> I didn't notice my wife had given up until it was too late either. When she said she was done it rocked me. I guess I am like Keenwas husband, I've changed over the last few months to be a better husband and a much better father.
> 
> I believe that wife is also in the boat where she sees the changes but she still feels like I should have done it 5 years ago, before she decided that she was giving up.
> 
> ...


He tells me he wants to change. But seeing very little action to support this so far. Breaking 40 years of habit will be hard for him - especially if he feels im over stating the issues to begin with


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## loopy lu (Oct 30, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> Lu,
> giving up is weak
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


This is what is stopping me. And our kids are so small and really do love their Dad. 

I know once I start my IC he will see I'm serious. Im In Aus, so there is a 1 year wait before divorce. But unravelling our life and assets will be a long drawn out process.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Seeking divorce is the best chance to save your marriage

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## Keenwa (Oct 26, 2013)

loopy lu said:


> He tells me he wants to change. But seeing very little action to support this so far. Breaking 40 years of habit will be hard for him - especially if he feels im over stating the issues to begin with



True, but in the mean time you will learn things about yourself and what you have done to contribute to this. It's a hard lesson to learn, I know it has been hard for me, so much easier to just blame, but the reality is you both created this weird codependent relationship where he sits back and you do everything. So even if he doesnt' change much and you still want to leave in 6 months you will both emerge better people and better parents, with a healthier relationship which can do nothing but help your children whether you are apart or together.


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## Keenwa (Oct 26, 2013)

Kolors said:


> The alcoholic reference is a good one and I can see why wives would feel that way. It basically comes down to faith. Can you believe that your husband loves you enough to make his changes permanent or do you believe he will forget about you again in a year after you let him back in?
> 
> If your husband cares to fix your relationship, he really needs to be the one to make that call for MC. I didn't hesitate, the day she said she was willing I made the call.


Sometimes in the process we realize that perhaps the relationship is really over, we can get to a place of love for the other person, but not in love with. Because sometimes we have moved past whatever it is which brought us together in the first place. We all get together with a spouse for various reasons... they fill a void that needed filling, and sometimes that void disappears over time and then the person though we love them, is no longer what we need.


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## H30 (Nov 23, 2013)

How long have you felt like this about your marriage? My first concern if it has been recently is that you had a baby 4 months ago. Have you had any screening for PPD? I know how hard it can be with it, and it doesn't help the relationship one bit.


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## loopy lu (Oct 30, 2013)

H30 said:


> How long have you felt like this about your marriage? My first concern if it has been recently is that you had a baby 4 months ago. Have you had any screening for PPD? I know how hard it can be with it, and it doesn't help the relationship one bit.


No, no screening. We did discuss it last month when I had a bit of a meltdown. He was out of town for work and a whole series of circumstances led to me crying constantly day and night for 2 days...Hard feat with 3 little ones on my own as well. Tried to reach out to family for support but they were all busy with their own lives. Disappointing because although he was 1000km away, DH knew I was struggling and never called or sent a message to check in to see how I was for 3 days. 

I suspect Ive always had depression on and off and was on ADs for a stretch just before I was married. I think it would only be PPD in the sense that its my normal mood patterns, except its happening within the 12 months of having a baby. Im cool with the baby. She's such a lovely content beautiful little girl. A real blessing.


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## H30 (Nov 23, 2013)

loopy lu said:


> No, no screening. We did discuss it last month when I had a bit of a meltdown. He was out of town for work and a whole series of circumstances led to me crying constantly day and night for 2 days...Hard feat with 3 little ones on my own as well. Tried to reach out to family for support but they were all busy with their own lives. Disappointing because although he was 1000km away, DH knew I was struggling and never called or sent a message to check in to see how I was for 3 days.
> 
> I suspect Ive always had depression on and off and was on ADs for a stretch just before I was married. I think it would only be PPD in the sense that its my normal mood patterns, except its happening within the 12 months of having a baby. Im cool with the baby. She's such a lovely content beautiful little girl. A real blessing.


Even if everything is great with baby you could still have PPD. I think with prior depression you are at a higher risk for PPD too. It doesn't hurt to talk to a doctor...why feel this way if you don't have too? 
I would say get this checked out first....my obgyn told me that recent studies are also finding that men whose partner is suffering ppd also suffer from some sort of depression.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Did you marry my husband? All kidding aside, your marriage does sound like mine and I have been married 21 years and raised 5 children.

My counselor feels husband is all about him and his needs but he tells me men are this way. I look around at my friends' husband now and I see what he is saying. They are focused on them, their careers, what they want. When their wives tell them they aren't happy they are clueless, just like yours and mine. They trip around in their own little world. So what about creating your own little world.....a world where you have friend, a career, a social life....a life where you go and do what you want and they about your needs?

Yes, it is not what we expected and I do hear your pain....when our needs are not met outside of the bedroom we do slowly disengage from the marriage and many time we get to the point where there is no going back no matter how much he changes because the hurt in us has been so great.

On the flip side in meeting your needs as far as having someone to talk to and someone that makes you feel good when you are together, how long can that last? Do you think most long term marriages that are supposed "Good" are skipping thru the fields? Not from what I see. I think that 'in love' stage is what many of us seek, we ruin our marriages in sake of it only to have the same thing happen again.

I have been married twice....what I can tell you is that everyone is a little bit different, meaning this man might not be attentive but the next man you fall in love might have issues too. Do you want to raise your children with a different father? Do you want your husband to remarry and start another family so your kids can have step siblings and a stepmom? That whole bit is NO fun. The kid get confused, hurt and angry.

In my thoughts, perhaps not ideal, but do with your life what makes you happy and quit trying to please your husband. He is in oblivion.


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

Keenwa, I've gotta ask, if you aren't going to give your husband a chance, then why are you wasting his time?

Loopy (and others): We see it here all the time where women come to TAM feeling miserable, like their marriages have been in a rut for years, they've been unhappy, their husbands don't seem to "get it" and therefore care, and when they finally can't contain it anymore and tell their husband it's over, they react with surprise and feel like it all came out of the blue, like it's the first time they've heard about it.

For starters, it very often IS the first time they've heard about it. It seems like so often in these stories the women fundamentally fail to try to communicate with their husbands in a way that he is capable of understanding. What do we men understand? Direct communication. Not nagging, not bait, not rewards, not body language, not little comments of frustration, not your speaking with your friends about it, etc. We see and hear stress, drama, frustration, anxiety, emotional games, little comments from our wives every single day. We can't possibly decipher everything that is going on in your lives and figure out how many of them are linked to one another while many of them are not. For us, everything is usually an independent issue, because you have to remember that is how we process things, we compartmentalize them. If my wife has a bad night and loses her cool over a dish I left in the sink, I interpret it as exactly that, that she was having a bad night and my dish set her off. From her perspective, she might not be having a bad night at all, but the frustration of seeing that dish there for weeks on end finally set her off. I have no idea that it's been an ongoing issue because at no point in time did she sit me down to directly tell me that it's been a problem. She may have asked me about it a few times in the past, maybe looked at it a few times when I was in the room and sighed, hoping I'd notice, maybe told her friend about it on the phone somewhat loudly hoping I'd hear, maybe was cold to me for a week at a time hoping I'd interpret her coldness as her being upset about the dish, etc. etc. etc. We just aren't process things that way.

A man being expected to properly understand a woman who is not willing to communicate directly and specifically is like asking someone to complete a jigsaw puzzle but all of the thousands of pieces are little squares. You can try to piece it together based on the bits of color patterns on the face, but it's confusing and exhausting. If the goal is for us to see the picture you are trying to relay, why not just clearly paint the whole picture for us or at least number the pieces and hand us a chart for how it goes together?

Let me say again, I think most men don't get that form of communication at all. When she explodes about the dish after weeks or months of her failed efforts, we'll probably look at her and ask, "Why the heck didn't you say that the dish is what has been bothering you this much or was this important to you? Why did you let it get this bad without just telling me?!" to which she might reply, "I have been trying to get it through to you for months now but you just don't get it!" Well no kidding we don't get it, we don't speak female.

So unfortunately it seems like more often by the time the woman is finally willing to just come out and directly state the problem, it is only to inform her husband that she has had enough and is finished with the marriage, and any effort he makes to try to correct the problem is now "too little, too late" or "I can't believe his effort is real." I get it, to her she has given him countless chances and tried for months or years to get through to him. When he did make little efforts along the way, he was doing so because he interpreted that she was expressing small, independently compartmentalized issues that required a simple response to solve. Once done, mission accomplished, we can go back to what we were doing. Clearly a huge communication problem because he has no idea that the issues are all linked together and part of a bigger, scarier problem. For him, that is the first moment that the problem is made clear, and when he does commit to genuine efforts to fix the problem, he can't figure out why she is so cold and unwilling to give him a chance, and questions his motives/commitment. He's frustrated and angry that she would let things get so bad before finally clearly letting him know, but he can't really express that frustration without making things worse.


Sorry for the massively long story/explanation, but it's tough to hear stories like this and not wonder how one or two slight adjustments of perspective along the way could have prevented so many issues before they got out of hand.

I will add however, that if the husband is really just an ******* (and there are plenty of them out there), then his fully understanding the situation earlier on or not wouldn't have really mattered to him, making this an entirely different situation. The scenarios I refer to above are those that involve men who genuinely do love their wives, and while they aren't perfect by any stretch, would certainly be willing to do what they can to resolve issues that their wives have with them if only they understood the size and scope of those problems.


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