# First time here, could use some advice x



## Emily J

Hi,
This is my first time here, and I guess it's pretty normal to say I don't want to be here. Am feeling all kind of screwed up, and can't really talk to friends or family about this.
Me and my husband have been married for 10 years, together for going on 20, both early 40's, two young kids. Our marriage is what i'd call pretty normal - no previous affairs that I know of although I have had suspicions once or twice. 
He's been acting oddly the last few weeks - almost nicer to me than usual, and on his laptop a lot more. This morning I just got an odd feeling, and opened his laptop - it was open on his FB page, and a private conversation was going on right in front of my eyes. He was out at the supermarket using FB on his phone, messaging one of the school mums. He does all of the school stuff, as I work and he does the home stuff. I've only ever had one conversation with her, I didn't even know he was FB friends with her. I don't snoop and check up on him all of the time, I just had this feeling that something wasn't right, and it seems that I had good reason. From the messages, it's obvious that they haven't got as far as sex yet, but they clearly are close. It's flirting - 'I can't stop thinking about you,' 'How am I going to get through half term without seeing you everyday,' 'I need to see you, to talk and ... more' 'you're turning me into a lovesick teenager' 'I'm good with my hands, I could show you,' 'can't get through the day without a glimpse of you' 'you're all I can think about from the moment I wake to the moment I go to bed,' - heavy flirting, but not yet meeting and sex. It's pretty obvious they've been flirting and messaging for a while, and that left alone it will most probably go further. What do I do? Do I say anything before it goes further? Do I stay quiet and try to get more info in the same way? Will saying something send them underground and they'll do it anyway? I am so bloody angry with him. Our kids, our marriage, our home... our whole lives, and he is calling some other woman gorgeous and telling her he can't stop thinking about her or wanting her. Am gutted. He used to say those things to me. Is there a wise way to handle this? I don't know if I should just tell him what I know or wait and see if it develops. But if I wait and they go further, will that make it harder / impossible to ever trust or be happy again? Sorry, rambling. Just all kinds of confused and don't know what to do for the best.


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## PhillyGuy13

Don't be 100 percent sure it hasn't gone physical somehow. 

Hopefully you printed out the conversation. Try to do so. Is the woman married? Show it to her husband immediately.

What do you want to do? Stay married? Divorce? That's up to you. But know he is cheating and all contact must stop. ALL contact. If you want to stay married to him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wmn1

copy the pages and save them.

Confront. Have him delete her from facebook and cell phone. 

Inform her husband if she has one. 

Do not wait until it develops, if it hasn't already. Why wait for the disaster of a physical affair ?

And be vigilant. Don't let him throw BS in your face sych as 'we were only joking, etc....' he needs a wakeup call.

You said that you have had suspicions before. Can you explain ?


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## SecondTime'Round

Confront. Don't let it develop before your eyes to see what will happen. I did that and I regret it so, so, so, so much. I'm not giving him a pass, but if I'd confronted when I first knew instead of letting my hurt and anger take over and see how far he took it, things would have had a much better chance of getting better and healing.

He's having an affair. Doesn't matter if they haven't had sex yet. You have to confront.

Keep us posted.


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## arbitrator

*It's not your fault, Emily, but much rather your H's! By a marked combination of him absentmindedly leaving his FB page up and going and you acting on your internal gut instincts, this whole unsavory saga came out from the darkness of collusion right into the light of day.

If you haven't done so already, you should print out a copy of that sordid dialogue of his to use against him in a confrontation, letting him know that he had damned well better be barring his soul to you with every excruciating detail of this EA, quite possibly a PA!

And you greatly seem to be a lady that when listening to someone, that you can tell when you're being truthfully dealt with as opposed to having someone try their level best to deceptively pull the literal wool over your eyes! 

If after that, you feel genuine contrition or remorse, then R and MC is preeminently in order! If not, then it's high time for you to get to a lawyer's office to help assess your legal rights.

You might also have yourself checked out by your MD for any possible presence of STD's!

Welcome to TAM! So very sorry to see you here, but you have preeminently come to the best place for interaction with other people who have once walked in your shoes!*


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## Emily J

Have copied it, hate looking at it. 
previous suspicions... the thing is, he has always been a man who looks at other women. Not massively, but in restaurants, or anywhere - if there's a pretty girl in the room, his eyes find her. It's just who he is. And the other thing is, he always completely adored me, really, really loved me. But in recent years... I don't know, I guess I've put on weight, maybe I'm dull because I don't go out so much and work all the time (from home too, so we are always together). He just doesn't look at me how he used to, and god knows our sex life has gone down the pan. I feel shockingly low about myself, and this woman... I can't compete. She's beautiful. But she's someone else's wife, mother of another man's children. How can they risk everyone's happiness for the sake of this? 
In the past (about five years back) I had the feeling that he'd grown close to one of the kids friends mum's. They used to see each other twice a week at the kids clubs, etc, and afterwards would stay behind and chat - I know because the kids told me in all innocence. Anyhow - her child stopped the activity so she stopped going. This happened the week after I'd been to the club with my husband and sat with her, the first time we'd properly met. I always wonder if meeting me, seeing us as a family, made her think twice and stop whatever was happening. Maybe I've got that totally wrong, but that's how I felt. 
If I had to put my hand on my heart and say if I trust my husband, the answer would have been no, even before this happened today. But do I think he loves me? I know he does. Do I love him? Completely. And the most stupid thing of all is we're pretty much happy a lot of the time. We laugh, and we do things together... but then this. I can't even look at him. I guess I'm going to have to have it out with him but the thought of where it could lead tears me to shreds. I don't want our kids to go through a divorce. I don't want him to love anyone else. Christ, am crying as I type this, how bloody messed up.


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## SecondTime'Round

Emily J said:


> Have copied it, hate looking at it.
> previous suspicions... the thing is, he has always been a man who looks at other women. Not massively, but in restaurants, or anywhere - if there's a pretty girl in the room, his eyes find her. It's just who he is. And the other thing is, he always completely adored me, really, really loved me. But in recent years... I don't know, I guess I've put on weight, maybe I'm dull because I don't go out so much and work all the time (from home too, so we are always together). He just doesn't look at me how he used to, and god knows our sex life has gone down the pan. I feel shockingly low about myself, and this woman... I can't compete. She's beautiful. But she's someone else's wife, mother of another man's children. How can they risk everyone's happiness for the sake of this?
> In the past (about five years back) I had the feeling that he'd grown close to one of the kids friends mum's. They used to see each other twice a week at the kids clubs, etc, and afterwards would stay behind and chat - I know because the kinds told me in all innocence. Anyhow - her child stopped the activity so she stopped going. This happened the week after I'd been to the club with my husband and sat with her, the first time we'd properly met. I always wonder if meeting me, seeing us as a family, made her think twice and stop whatever was happening. Maybe I've got that totally wrong, but that's how I felt.
> If I had to put my hand on my heart and say if I trust my husband, the answer would have been no, even before this happened today. But do I think he loves me? I know he does. Do I love him? Completely. And the most stupid thing of all is we're pretty much happy a lot of the time. We laugh, and we do things together... but then this. I can't even look at him. I guess I'm going to have to have it out with him but the thought of where it could lead tears me to shreds. I don't want our kids to go through a divorce. I don't want him to love anyone else. Christ, am crying as I type this, how bloody messed up.


Emily,

I wish I could give you a hug. No matter what the outcome, you're gonna be ok. My counselor recently pulled out a snow globe and shook it up and said, "this is how things look to you now..." and as the water started to become more clear and the glitter started sinking back to the bottom, she said "but this is where you'll eventually get." You don't have to make every decision about your future today, or tomorrow, or next week. You'll know what to do when you need to know it. You sound like you have really great instincts, and I think you're probably right about the mom from 5 years ago. 

Don't blame yourself. If he's genuinely remorseful and wants to repair the relationship he's destroying, there will be time for you both to work on ways you can strengthen your relationship. Now is not the time to be putting any of the blame on your self (even though nobody is perfect!). He's the one cheating, not you, instead of addressing any unhappiness with YOU, his partner. 

Hang in there....one hour at a time.....


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## Emily J

Thank you all for your words. Just having a place to get this out of my head is a relief, and knowing you all understand helps massively. I'm going to face up to it this evening, no point waiting. Need time to think what I'm going to say, and to make the best of myself so I feel as strong as I can, if that makes sense. xx


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## Emily J

Thank you Secondtime 'round. Your words made me cry, but in the right way. I want to knock his bloody block off for this, you know?


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## SecondTime'Round

Emily J said:


> Thank you Secondtime 'round. Your words made me cry, but in the right way. I want to knock his bloody block off for this, you know?


Oh I know! I think lots of us do! I'd make sure to make a second copy of what you have in case he grabs it and shreds it, or take a pic of it and email it to yourself, etc.


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## arbitrator

*One extremely important thing that I failed to mention was that after your confrontation with him, if you feel that there is no confessionary resolution on his part, and rather a self-justifyingly sense of denial ~ all while he's placating you by saying that this whole episode is nothing more than a passing thunderstorm, while in reality he's deceptively pissing on your shoes, and with you in them ~ it would be your inherent duty to notify the OW's husband to let him know the true extent of what has been clandestinely going on between his W and your H and to provide him with a copy of "the evidence!"

And blindside him, never letting him know that it's coming! It's simply using the element of surprise against him! Think about it: if you were to tell your H that you're going to expose to her H, then it largely gives both him and his affair partner ample time "to get their story lines straight" to further deceive her H!

Just sayin'!*


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## drifting on

Emily J said:


> Have copied it, hate looking at it.
> previous suspicions... the thing is, he has always been a man who looks at other women. Not massively, but in restaurants, or anywhere - if there's a pretty girl in the room, his eyes find her. It's just who he is. And the other thing is, he always completely adored me, really, really loved me. But in recent years... I don't know, I guess I've put on weight, maybe I'm dull because I don't go out so much and work all the time (from home too, so we are always together). He just doesn't look at me how he used to, and god knows our sex life has gone down the pan. I feel shockingly low about myself, and this woman... I can't compete. She's beautiful. But she's someone else's wife, mother of another man's children. How can they risk everyone's happiness for the sake of this?
> In the past (about five years back) I had the feeling that he'd grown close to one of the kids friends mum's. They used to see each other twice a week at the kids clubs, etc, and afterwards would stay behind and chat - I know because the kinds told me in all innocence. Anyhow - her child stopped the activity so she stopped going. This happened the week after I'd been to the club with my husband and sat with her, the first time we'd properly met. I always wonder if meeting me, seeing us as a family, made her think twice and stop whatever was happening. Maybe I've got that totally wrong, but that's how I felt.
> If I had to put my hand on my heart and say if I trust my husband, the answer would have been no, even before this happened today. But do I think he loves me? I know he does. Do I love him? Completely. And the most stupid thing of all is we're pretty much happy a lot of the time. We laugh, and we do things together... but then this. I can't even look at him. I guess I'm going to have to have it out with him but the thought of where it could lead tears me to shreds. I don't want our kids to go through a divorce. I don't want him to love anyone else. Christ, am crying as I type this, how bloody messed up.




Emily j

First you need to understand this is not your fault. Your husband's actions are inappropriate. You have found a good place for help, advice and support. Before taking a knee jerk reaction read the advice given to you. Take a deep breath and gather your thoughts. What you are about to go through is very difficult and painful. I wish it wasn't but I'd be lying if I told you otherwise.

If I were in your shoes I would make copies to give to the other woman's husband. Set up a time to meet with him to give him the copies (public place). Confront your husband after you have done this. Do not show your husband what you have, this way he will either be truthful or lie. If he's truthful that's good if he lies well that speaks for itself. 

Once you have confronted your husband and he lies you can then place the copies in front of him and ask him to explain. If he says they are just having a joking banter between the two of them, tell him to try again and this time don't insult my intelligence. Tell him this is his last chance to be honest. I told my wife when she began to trickle truth, she had one chance to tell me the truth, I told her we would talk tomorrow. The following day she revealed all. 

The reason to confront the other woman's husband first is for many reasons. You can tell your husband you are going to tell him. By telling the other husband his wife will be too busy saving her marriage then to be talking to your husband. Her husband will also be watching his wife making less time for her to chat with your husband. It's like hiring a PI without having to pay. 

Best of luck to you and sorry you are here.


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## alte Dame

I sense from your voice here that you will resist what I am about to advise, but it is important. It has already been suggested, but you haven't addressed it yet.

You should contact the husband of the woman and let him know. He has as much right to know as you do. This exposure is the surest way to kill this thing quickly. If you are afraid to do this, then find a way to do it anonymously.

Betrayed spouses spend a lot of time arguing about why they can't contact the other betrayed spouse. It is, however, one of the most reliable ways to stop the affair. (And this is an affair.)

I'm sorry. No one deserves this.


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## Emily J

Thank you everyone. I'll think on that, it's very difficult when there are kids, isn't it. It's not that I care about her marriage, it's that I care that our kids are friends at a small school, and I don't know her husband at all, how to contact him, or what sort of man he is. My first priority is to protect my kids from any fallout as much as possible. 
I realise that what you've all pointed out is true re her husband, please don't think I'm ignoring good advice. I've copied everything and saved it safely, so I have the conversation. I think he knows that there's something wrong, I can't seem to be any other way than silent and withdrawn with him at the moment. There isn't time before the kids collection to speak with him now, will have to leave it until they are in bed tonight. Thanks again for the support and advice all. xx


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## SecondTime'Round

Emily J said:


> Thank you everyone. I'll think on that, it's very difficult when there are kids, isn't it. It's not that I care about her marriage, it's that I care that our kids are friends at a small school, and I don't know her husband at all, how to contact him, or what sort of man he is. My first priority is to protect my kids from any fallout as much as possible.
> I realise that what you've all pointed out is true re her husband, please don't think I'm ignoring good advice. I've copied everything and saved it safely, so I have the conversation. I think he knows that there's something wrong, I can't seem to be any other way than silent and withdrawn with him at the moment. There isn't time before the kids collection to speak with him now, will have to leave it until they are in bed tonight. Thanks again for the support and advice all. xx


I'm assuming from some of your phrasing/wording that you're in the UK? So bedtime might be around 7 hours from now? I'll be praying for you, Emily, in exactly 7 hours . And before, for your nerves. <3


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## wmn1

you need to tell the other woman's husband. It's the right thing to do, you would want to be told, and it will help blow this thing up.

And it has no bearing on the kids btw.

It is easy to find out where the guy lives.


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## Emily J

Yes, UK. It's just after 2 in the afternoon here, so a long drag until we can talk. Thanks for thinking of me, I'll try to come back and let you know how tonight goes. x
I hear you all re her husband, and can see that it looks like an excuse. Its all pretty raw just now, I prob need to think things through properly. I don't know him, or their circumstances, and without wishing to sound callous, I can't take him into account or whether he deserves to know. I need to think about whats right for my household first, right? My fear is that it could create waves at school - she is very much an alpha mum there, and don't people just love to talk? Have terrible images in my head of her husband turning up and confronting mine - not because I fear for my husband, this is his own doing, but because of the impact it could have on my kids. Isn't it better to try to deal with this within our home? Or I could confront her. I'm not shying away from confronting it, I just would like to have the option of coming out of this with my marriage intact and our dirty laundry not aired on the school playground, you know?


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## SecondTime'Round

wmn1 said:


> you need to tell the other woman's husband. It's the right thing to do, you would want to be told, and it will help blow this thing up.
> 
> And it has no bearing on the kids btw.
> 
> It is easy to find out where the guy lives.


I've never had to deal with there being a spouse to expose to, so I can understand Emily's hesitation since she doesn't know the man from Adam. I think I'd feel that way too....not that Emily owes the OW anything, but what if this man is violent and something happens to OW and or her children if he snaps? That would be my only concern. Feel free to tell me I'm wrong.


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## Emily J

STA, that thought did go through my head. I know I'm not responsible for any fall out at their end, but I'd still feel it if god forbid anything like that happened. x


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## Nucking Futs

SecondTime'Round said:


> I've never had to deal with there being a spouse to expose to, so I can understand Emily's hesitation since she doesn't know the man from Adam. I think I'd feel that way too....not that Emily owes the OW anything, but what if this man is violent and something happens to OW and or her children if he snaps? That would be my only concern. Feel free to tell me I'm wrong.


You're wrong.

How stupid do you think this OW is? Put your thinking caps on people, if you're married to a violent psycho do you engage in the kind of behavior that is guaranteed to send him over the edge, or do you mind your p's and q's? It's an excuse, a very common excuse that's been used here hundreds of times by people who either don't have the intestinal fortitude to go to the mat to protect their family or just don't care that much.


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## arbitrator

SecondTime'Round said:


> I've never had to deal with there being a spouse to expose to, so I can understand Emily's hesitation since she doesn't know the man from Adam. I think I'd feel that way too....not that Emily owes the OW anything, but what if this man is violent and something happens to OW and or her children if he snaps? That would be my only concern. Feel free to tell me I'm wrong.


*And the BH might well look up and summarily whip Emily's H's sorry butt! Does the BH, in any way, not deserve to know what is going on behind his back?

IMHO, Emily's WH has already made his bed. If he is not, in the least way contrite as to his covert trangressions, then just let him lay in that bed of roses that he so aptly helped to manufacture!*


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## alte Dame

Emily - We can only offer you the benefit of experience here.

That experience tells us many things, among them:

- It is important on many levels to find a way to alert the husband of the OW. People here have already emphasized this and will continue to do so, I imagine.

- You, the betrayed wife, will find many reasons not to do that right now. You are at the beginning of the infidelity curve, reacting in the normal way of the betrayed. We can predict what your reactions will be as well as what actions will be best in terms of dealing with the affair.

- You will get to a point where you realize that you should have alerted this man a long time ago.

We wish that you could skip the interim behavior, but know that you probably won't. In the meantime, at least start gathering some information about her and him. This is something you can do without fear.

(FWIW, we understand your fears. The excuses your brain comes up with arise from fear. This is all understandable.)


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## SecondTime'Round

Nucking Futs said:


> You're wrong.
> 
> How stupid do you think this OW is? Put your thinking caps on people, if you're married to a violent psycho do you engage in the kind of behavior that is guaranteed to send him over the edge, or do you mind your p's and q's? It's an excuse, a very common excuse that's been used here hundreds of times by people who either don't have the intestinal fortitude to go to the mat to protect their family or just don't care that much.


OK, good point. I get it!


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## Emily J

Am reading, and listening, and thinking hard. I see what you're saying, and knowing that you all speak from experience, I can see that you're right. I AM frightened. I'm bloody scared stiff about what's going to happen as a result of all of this. I'm not going to deny that the thought of contacting her husband about this, a total stranger to me, fills me with total and utter dread. It's just all hideous. x


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## Mr Blunt

> By Emily
> I'm not going to deny that the thought of contacting her husband about this, a total stranger to me, fills me with total and utter dread. It's just all hideous. X


*What fills you with more hideous dread; contacting her husband or not doing everything to stop your husband from damaging your marriage and children more?*


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## Cubby

Emily is thinking about making a big mistake: Not contacting the OW's husband. Virtually everybody who has been in Emily's shoes is cringing right now, knowing that her chances of keeping the marriage intact (if that's what she wants) improve immensely by informing the betrayed husband. The affair won't be nearly as thrilling and exciting once it's exposed and divorce is staring them in the face.


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## happyman64

Emily

Contact her husband. Have a conversation with the guy.

Then make a plan together with him.

Confront both of your spouses at the same time.

And put their nonsense to an end.

Then setup boundaries that your H must agree to and so must his wife.

HM


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## AriYarjan

Emily, first you need to stop this affair (and that is what it is) by exposing it first to her husband (without giving your husband any clue about what you are going to do).

Make sure you have the evidence with you and that it cannot be deleted by your husband.

Then ask him whats going on and be tough - he is a cheater and a liar and you need to make him see real consequences for his actions.

I know that when you have kids this is tough but it will get worse for the kids if you do not do something or ignore this for their sake.


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## tryingpatience

Cubby said:


> Emily is thinking about making a big mistake: Not contacting the OW's husband. Virtually everybody who has been in Emily's shoes is cringing right now, knowing that her chances of keeping the marriage intact (if that's what she wants) improve immensely by informing the betrayed husband. The affair won't be nearly as thrilling and exciting once it's exposed and divorce is staring them in the face.


And that is exactly what you are trying to do to save your marriage. Exposing the affair will stop them from taking it further. Many of us were not as lucky to catch it this early. You'll need to be strong and confident. Protect what's yours.

Learn from our mistakes. You are only protecting your family and fighting for your marriage. No need to be nervous about that


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## Emily J

Gosh, thanks so much everyone. Trying Patience, your post has given me the final strength to deal with it. The kids go to bed in an hour. I have copies and copies of what's gone on today, and I am ready to fight for what's mine. Scared, but ready. xx


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## Louise7

Emily - Don't worry about the Alpha Mum at the school gate. Once the other's find out what she is capable of, nobody will go near her. They all have children and partners they want to protect. Please tell the OWs husband. Think of it this way: if he knew about this and didn't tell you, how would you feel?


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## SecondTime'Round

As I get ready to go out to dinner with my mom and sis to discuss my own options in my own catastrophic relationship fail here on the other side of the pond, you're in my prayers, Emily!!! <3 <3


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## Emily J

thank you xx


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## EleGirl

Emily J said:


> Thank you Secondtime 'round. Your words made me cry, but in the right way. I want to knock his bloody block off for this, you know?


Yes I do know! Maybe go beat up some pillows and yell at them. Get it out of your system. It is important that you acknowledge your anger and all the other awful feelings are (and will be) feeling.

There are some books that I think will help you.

"Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Harley.

After your husband gives up the affair and if you want to reconcile with him then the two other books will help with that. They are also by Dr. Harley.

"His Needs, Her Needs" and "Love Busters".


{{{{{HUGS}}}}}


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## jb02157

Print out the pages of the conversation and say you want an explanation.


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## Devastated an lost

When I caught my H I didn't know how to get in touch with the OWH. & I was scared to try. That's one of my biggest regrets now. After 2 months I did some investigating & got his No. made an anonymous call, But I wish I had called him strait up & told him who I was & what I knew.. You will always regret it if you don't. Take my word for it. It's to late for me now, but don't make the same mistake I did.. Good luck.


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## SecondTime'Round

Devastated an lost said:


> When I caught my H I didn't know how to get in touch with the OWH. & I was scared to try. That's one of my biggest regrets now. After 2 months I did some investigating & got his No. made an anonymous call, But I wish I had called him strait up & told him who I was & what I knew.. You will always regret it if you don't. Take my word for it. It's to late for me now, but don't make the same mistake I did.. Good luck.


Really great advice from someone who has been there!

I've been cheated on, twice by the same person, but there was never another spouse to inform. So, I'm uneducated.....what is the reasoning people give for doing it BEFORE confronting your own spouse? (Honestly, just curious and learning)


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## EleGirl

Emily J said:


> Yes, UK. It's just after 2 in the afternoon here, so a long drag until we can talk. Thanks for thinking of me, I'll try to come back and let you know how tonight goes. x
> I hear you all re her husband, and can see that it looks like an excuse. Its all pretty raw just now, I prob need to think things through properly. I don't know him, or their circumstances, and without wishing to sound callous, I can't take him into account or whether he deserves to know. I need to think about whats right for my household first, right? My fear is that it could create waves at school - she is very much an alpha mum there, and don't people just love to talk? Have terrible images in my head of her husband turning up and confronting mine - not because I fear for my husband, this is his own doing, but because of the impact it could have on my kids. Isn't it better to try to deal with this within our home? Or I could confront her. I'm not shying away from confronting it, I just would like to have the option of coming out of this with my marriage intact and our dirty laundry not aired on the school playground, you know?


Yes you need to think of your family first and do what is best for you and your children.

You do not need to make a decision today about telling her husband. I would also not tell your husband that you might do it or when you plan to do it, if you ever do. It's your decision alone. He will most likely try to stop you. 

The main reason for exposing an affair is to end the affair. She will be so busy trying to save her marriage that she will most likely end this nonsense with your husband cold turkey.

Men usually have no intention of leaving their wife when they have an affair. It's more about some strange and fun for men. So your husband will most likely want to reconcile. 

That's why I suggested the "Surviving an Affair" book. It goes into details of what to do to end the affair and to fix the marriage.


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## Emily J

They were just messaging this evening to meet up for an hour in the morning, so rightly or wrongly, I have just sent her this message, right there on his FB convo for them both to see. He is sitting opposite me right now watching TV, unaware that I've just sent it. He'll know as soon as he opens his laptop though. And yes, I know his FB password and totally logged on from my own laptop. Privacy went out the window this morning along with the last fragments of trust. This is the message I sent:
'Hi *****, it's Emily. You should know that I have copies of your messages, and that I can't think of anything else to do with them but to send them to your husband, because he has as much right to know as I do and make his own mind up what to do. I hope that the sly excitement of messing around with another woman's husband or another man's wife is still as thrilling for you both now that it's not a secret anymore. I look at my kids faces, and I think of all the years, and the love, and I wonder how you can look at your kids sleeping and still risk them for the sake of a cheap thrill on the back seat of the car with someone who's pretty much a stranger. I guess you just don't love your husband as much as I love mine, although god knows why because he clearly doesn't love me enough anymore. I'm at the point where I don't actually care whether you've ****ed yet or not. It's enough already. I don't care about your marriage or your family, but I will fight to protect mine. Back the **** off.'
Am now waiting for our kids to go to sleep and then it's time to talk. Thank you all for helping me today. I don't know what I'd have done without somewhere to come and talk. xx


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## EleGirl

Emily J said:


> They were just messaging this evening to meet up for an hour in the morning, so rightly or wrongly, I have just sent her this message, right there on his FB convo for them both to see. He is sitting opposite me right now watching TV, unaware that I've just sent it. He'll know as soon as he opens his laptop though. And yes, I know his FB password and totally logged on from my own laptop. Privacy went out the window this morning along with the last fragments of trust. This is the message I sent:
> 
> 'Hi *****, it's Emily. You should know that I have copies of your messages, and that I can't think of anything else to do with them but to send them to your husband, because he has as much right to know as I do and make his own mind up what to do. I hope that the sly excitement of messing around with another woman's husband or another man's wife is still as thrilling for you both now that it's not a secret anymore. I look at my kids faces, and I think of all the years, and the love, and I wonder how you can look at your kids sleeping and still risk them for the sake of a cheap thrill on the back seat of the car with someone who's pretty much a stranger. I guess you just don't love your husband as much as I love mine, although god knows why because he clearly doesn't love me enough anymore. I'm at the point where I don't actually care whether you've ****ed yet or not. It's enough already. I don't care about your marriage or your family, but I will fight to protect mine. Back the **** off.'
> 
> Am now waiting for our kids to go to sleep and then it's time to talk. Thank you all for helping me today. I don't know what I'd have done without somewhere to come and talk. xx


Well it's done. Well done too.

Let up know how it goes. We are here.


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## Emily J

Jesus, this is difficult. I don't even know if I did the right thing, but I felt the need to take control. She hasn't read it yet, and neither has he. I just felt that if she knows I know right now, it might alter the course of tomorrow, because from the messages today they haven't yet been physical, but by tomorrow night they would have been. I've now got myself stuck waiting for him to look at his messages, because if we talk before hand then I have to tell him I've done it, where as if I leave it for him to look it will start the conversation off anyway. Am crap at this. I just want my marriage to be okay again.


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## Louise7

Let us know what happens and do follow through on telling her husband. Expect his phone to light up like a Christmas tree whe n she sees the message.


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## Roselyn

You did the right action. You have courage. Do not back down from your husband. He has betrayed you and is about to engage in a physical affair if not already. 

I strongly encourage you to inform her husband of his wife's relationship with your husband. You can put a stop to this affair. Protect your turf. You said that this other woman is an "alpha". It will take an alpha to take another. Take her down before she victimizes another marriage.


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## EleGirl

Do something constructive. 

Get an electronic copy of "Surviving an Affair" and start reading it.

You are going to need a list of things that he needs to do in order for you even consider reconciling. Do not just agree to do it.

He is most likely going to lie and tell you that they were just joking around. it means nothing. He might get angry and tell you that you were wrong to snoop. Stand your ground.

He needs to tell you everything, when it started, who it started, why, what they have done. One of the best ways to do this is to have him write out a time line. 

The marriage cannot recover until there is no contact between them. You need him to write her a no-contact letter. Here is a good example. It has to be all about you.. how he hurt you and his family. Do not accept anything that apologizes to her etc. He needs to write it and then the two of you mail it to her. You have to be there to witness that it is mailed.

========================================
Dear Other Person,

The relationship I had with you was thoughtless and selfish. It hurt many people, particularly my spouse, who did not deserve to be treated that way. I am committed to my marriage and determined to rebuild after all the hurt I’ve caused my family. I am going to work hard to be the husband/wife that he/she deserves.

Because of the terrible offense to my spouse and the damage I have done to both our marriage and our family, I am permanently ending all contact with you. Please respect my wish to regain my integrity and to heal my family. Please also respect my wish and do not attempt to contact me in any way at any time.

My spouse has all the details of our relationship and he/she will also be told of any attempts at contact.

Sincerely,

Disloyal Spouse
=====================

Until he agrees to end the affair and no contact with her, you need to pull back from him. A good way to do this is to interact with him according to the 180.. see the link in my signature block below. Do not let him suck you in until he does these things.


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## Emily J

She read the message just now, and has replied with 'I'm so sorry, it was a huge mistake.' 
Like that covers it. My H doesn't even know yet. 
And now another one. 'please don't send them to him. I beg of you.'

Jeez, this is like car crash TV, I hate that it's my life. I didn't expect this when I woke up this morning.


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## BetrayedDad

Tell the husband... 

When I exposed to OM's wife all I had was an address. No phone number or email. You think exposing is hard? Try knocking on someone's door and doing it face to face while they hold their new born baby in their arms. By the way, her response to the news? Obviously very upset but at the same time extremely grateful someone told her. She must of thanked me a dozen times.

The other person's spouse deserves to know. After that, what they choose to do with that information is none of your concern. You may get a few people on here who say otherwise but no one is entitled to ignorance.


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## Louise7

Emily J said:


> She read the message just now, and has replied with 'I'm so sorry, it was a huge mistake.'
> Like that covers it. My H doesn't even know yet.
> And now another one. 'please don't send them to him. I beg of you.'
> 
> Jeez, this is like car crash TV, I hate that it's my life. I didn't expect this when I woke up this morning.


You are doing a great job. Don't engage with her further. Save the messages and see her husband first thing in the morning. If your husband sees the message tonight, make sure you have changed his password to FB. You don't want the messages deleted. Now, take a deep breath and wait. See how alpha she was, begging you? You're doing good, keep going.


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## Emily J

God, that sounds hideous, BetrayedDad, and brave too. I guess I'm lucky that I could find a way to get in touch with him. 
She is sending more messages. 'Nothing ever happened between us.' 'My husband will kill me.' I don't want to hear her excuses.


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## 5Creed

You are on the right track Emily. Don't engage with her any further and save her replies to your message before they get deleted~


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## EleGirl

I agree with the others. Do not respond to her at all.

If you want to know about how long this had gone on, look at your phone bills going back months. You will see how much the contacted each other. If you go back even longer you might see other women he has done this with.


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## Emily J

I have. I def won't reply. I can't believe I was brave enough to do it, I needed a glass of wine first. x


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## EleGirl

Also, I agree with changing his FB password. There are ways to retrieve deleted messages from facebook. You can do that to find out what else has been going on.

The same with cell phone texts.


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## GusPolinski

EleGirl said:


> Also, I agree with changing his FB password. There are ways to retrieve deleted messages from facebook. You can do that to find out what else has been going on.
> 
> *The same with cell phone texts.*


::: peeks in :::

What kind of phone does he use?


----------



## Louise7

Emily J said:


> I have. I def won't reply. I can't believe I was brave enough to do it, I needed a glass of wine first. x


Well done. I get the wine thing but now you need a clear head. Change the password on his Facebook and go to bed. If you can get hold of his phone tonight, do so. Put the phone on silent and hide it. You need rest now to deal with tomorrow.


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## BetrayedDad

Emily J said:


> God, that sounds hideous, BetrayedDad, and brave too. I guess I'm lucky that I could find a way to get in touch with him.
> She is sending more messages. 'Nothing ever happened between us.' 'My husband will kill me.' I don't want to hear her excuses.


Where was her compassion when she ruining your family??? Her pleas are not sincere and are self serving. She will NOT back off until you show her consequences. 

Send the FB messages to the husband, it's your moral obligation and it sends a clear message you will not be an accomplice to some low life adulteresses actions.

You are handling this well by the way. No need to further engage with her. Time to drive the point home and expose.


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## march16

Well done Emily you are so brave, I have been following as I have a similar story but not as much proof as you do - it feels inappropriate to say you are 'lucky' though! - Ele girl, how do you get the old Facebook messages back?

I will be thinking about you Emily, take care.


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## Roselyn

Well done. Do not respond to her messages. Do not drink. You need a clear head. Take a hot shower. You have the upper hand at this time. Do not lose your edge.


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## Emily J

It's an old experia I think. I can't bear it. we're sitting in silence, him watching TV and no doubt itching to pick up his laptop, me on the other sofa with my laptop. No more wine, you're right. Crappy, crappy, stuff.


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## Louise7

Emily J said:


> It's an old experia I think. I can't bear it. we're sitting in silence, him watching TV and no doubt itching to pick up his laptop, me on the other sofa with my laptop. No more wine, you're right. Crappy, crappy, stuff.


Instead of watching him, go to bed. He will immediately go for the laptop but he won't be able to get into Facebook. What a shame.


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## EleGirl

Emily J said:


> It's an old experia I think. I can't bear it. we're sitting in silence, him watching TV and no doubt itching to pick up his laptop, me on the other sofa with my laptop. No more wine, you're right. Crappy, crappy, stuff.


You could move things along .. .just pipe up and tell him "I just sent your girlfriend a text. You might want to check."

I could not just sit there... I'd do something... but that's me


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## GusPolinski

Emily J said:


> *It's an old experia I think.* I can't bear it. we're sitting in silence, him watching TV and no doubt itching to pick up his laptop, me on the other sofa with my laptop. No more wine, you're right. Crappy, crappy, stuff.


Really? Hmm... it might be on the list...

Tech Specifications of Wondershare Dr.Fone for Android


----------



## EleGirl

march16 said:


> Well done Emily you are so brave, I have been following as I have a similar story but not as much proof as you do - it feels inappropriate to say you are 'lucky' though! - Ele girl, how do you get the old Facebook messages back?
> 
> I will be thinking about you Emily, take care.



Look in the thread linked here. You might get some good ideas reading it. Also ask the folks on there for help.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html


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## GusPolinski

EleGirl said:


> You could move things along .. .just pipe up and tell him "I just sent your girlfriend a text. You might want to check."
> 
> I could not just sit there... I'd do something... but that's me


This is what I'd be doing...

https://www.facebook.com/help/131112897028467/

You know... before the messages all disappear.

By the way, OP, you're going to need access to the e-mail associated w/ this Facebook account in order to a) intercept the notification e-mail that gets sent when you kick off the archive and b) download the archive.


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## GusPolinski

march16 said:


> Well done Emily you are so brave, I have been following as I have a similar story but not as much proof as you do - it feels inappropriate to say you are 'lucky' though! - Ele girl, how do you get the old Facebook messages back?
> 
> I will be thinking about you Emily, take care.


Deleted messages? Sorry, but I don't think you can do that anymore...

https://trustiko.com/recover-deleted-facebook-messages/


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## harrybrown

You need him to write you a timeline of the A.

It is at least an EA and may already be a PA.

Call her H quick so she can't warn her H about some crazy lady accusing her of having an A with her husband.

I hope your husband will be remorseful, but he needs work on his boundaries.

Will he stop all contact with the OW and you start taking care of things at the school, if possible.

Start the 180 for yourself. You can't fix your marriage by yourself and if he does not go all out to fix this, he is a fool.

He already is a fool for his actions with the OW.


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## SecondTime'Round

Not sure what happened with you and H after your last message, as I'm sure it's bedtime now for you, but GOOD JOB! Proud of you, Emily. I was reading your posts on my phone while out to dinner with my mom and sis. Still praying for you....I know it's really, really hard, but you're STRONG!


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## wmn1

SecondTime'Round said:


> I've never had to deal with there being a spouse to expose to, so I can understand Emily's hesitation since she doesn't know the man from Adam. I think I'd feel that way too....not that Emily owes the OW anything, but what if this man is violent and something happens to OW and or her children if he snaps? That would be my only concern. Feel free to tell me I'm wrong.


she's trying to save her marriage. Telling OWH will fore OW to back off in most cases and that will hep her husband get out of the fog. You are assuming DV which may ot be the case. Exposure works, trust me. Exposure works in most cases. If he does anything stupid, there are civil and criminal remedies.


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## alte Dame

You overcame your fear and DID it. You have shown real strength and courage. We all know how hard it is to take control the way you have.

I'm assuming that you are now dealing with your WH. I hope you stay dark with the OW and follow through with the exposure to the OWH. And, as everyone has said, keep copies of your evidence.

Sending you some virtual support. You're very brave.


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## Mrs. Rodriguez

Kudos to you girl! Your so brave and strong. Perfectly said. I will def be thinking of you. There is no easy fix. Affairs are like red wine on a white carpet. The stain will always be there. It will never be the same but you can try to with therapist and a lot of work on his part. Keep us updated


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## Shoshannah

Well done, Emily! You are so very courageous under difficult circumstances.


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## Emily J

Thank you all for your messages xx

So, I didn't go to bed. I was way too far along the wanting to kill him line to sleep, and if I'd changed his password on FB then he wouldn't have seen the message I'd sent. Anyhow, I waited for the kids to be asleep and then calmly said 'I think we need to talk.' Given that we'd sat in silence for thee hours, he already knew I knew, but he still said 'Do we?' My face must have said it all, because he went on to say ' we haven't done anything. I haven't touched her. I've never even spoke to her on my own.' So there it was, we were off. I told him that I'd messaged her, and that he should log on because she was begging for his help. I was angry, and tearful, and let him have everything that has been building inside me for years. How can I pretend to have a happy marriage without trust? I love the bones of the man, and despite this he is the best man I know and a really good dad, and to know that he was spending his days thinking of her, building up to screwing someone else's wife... he said he'd been flattered by her attention, caught up in it, stupid, thoughtless, a massive mistake that he wished he could take back. He said it's been going on for ten days or so, all on messages. He looked whipped, pained, apologised... but it all kind of meant nothing, because I know what thoughts were going on in his head. He was planning to meet her this morning, and would have left our home with a skip in his excited step at the cheap god-damn thrill of it all. He's out right now taking the kids to school as normal, because I refuse to let this turn me into someone who keeps constant tabs and reacts unclassily. I didn't respond on FB, and I see that she has de-friended my husband in a panic. Am I sitting her now convinced they're having a panic summit somewhere close to the school? Of course I am. Am I regretting saying something? God, no. I'm so glad I came to this site yesterday, because right now I'd be sitting here knowing full well he'd gone to meet her and that I'd done nothing to stop it. I think he just came home, I hear his car. No summit yet, then. Our marriage is on the floor right now, and I don't have a clue what to do next. It's going to be a long day, isn't it? xx


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## march16

Yes it will be ........ you have been so strong so far and I admire you for that! There will be heaps of support and help here for you soon, unfortunately I'm not in a position to offer any as I'm in the same place at the moment, but you are right - you came to the right place for some advice. Good luck, stay strong, the best thing someone said to me so far is ABC, Always Be Calm, and trust your gut feeling.


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## Emily J

Thank you March16. I'm sorry you're dealing with this too.xx
ABC. Okay, I can remember that. 
He slept on the sofa last night. I said I was going to, and he refused to go to bed either so I left him down there rather than stay in the same room all night. then got up super early so the kids wouldn't notice any difference.


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## SecondTime'Round

Emily J said:


> Thank you March16. I'm sorry you're dealing with this too.xx
> ABC. Okay, I can remember that.
> He slept on the sofa last night. I said I was going to, and he refused to go to bed either so I left him down there rather than stay in the same room all night. then got up super early so the kids wouldn't notice any difference.


I like ABC. My mom has also been emailing and texting me several times a day with "DLT!" That means "don't lost temper!" I have really lost it on him a few times and trying very hard to do better.

I've been awake since 3AM (5:30 now) fretting about my own problems and Xanax didn't even help me relax so I thought I might as well get up and check on you!

You did so great! Do you believe him that it's only been 10 days? Did he tell you how it all began? Have you made a decision about OM?

I think you said you guys are in the house all day together all the time? You work at home and is he a SAHD? Yeah, it's gonna be a very long day. But, you can do it! You got through the scariest part!


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## drifting on

ABC to me is ambulance before cop when dealing with a cheating spouse!! I am kidding.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Emily J

I think I do believe it's not been going on too long, STR, purely because surely they'd have met and had sex before now if so? I think I just happened to stumble in to things at the optimum moment by luck rather than judgement.
He said it started when she sent him a friend request, which I know she did as I've looked back through his emails this morning. She paid him a compliment, he paid her one back, and there it began sharing bits about each others lives, flirting, escalating to the stuff I saw y'day. I of course said how convenient it was that she was to blame, and he said he took equal responsibility for it, it had been both of them. 
It's crap, isn't it? I'm sorry you're going through so much too, it sounds as if you're dealing with even more than I am. Sending you lots of love and strength, you've been lovely to me over the last 24 hrs. xxx


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## PhillyGuy13

You've handled this really well so far Emily. Nice job.

So everything was entirely over facebook or email? Did they text at all? Someone suggested going back and looking at the phone bills. Most statements will tell you who you are texting and receiving texts from (won't tell you the text itself).

I would ask him to print out the cell phone bills for the past several months.

Hang in there!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SecondTime'Round

Emily J said:


> I think I do believe it's not been going on too long, STR, purely because surely they'd have met and had sex before now if so? I think I just happened to stumble in to things at the optimum moment by luck rather than judgement.
> He said it started when she sent him a friend request, which I know she did as I've looked back through his emails this morning. She paid him a compliment, he paid her one back, and there it began sharing bits about each others lives, flirting, escalating to the stuff I saw y'day. I of course said how convenient it was that she was to blame, and he said he took equal responsibility for it, it had been both of them.
> It's crap, isn't it? I'm sorry you're going through so much too, it sounds as if you're dealing with even more than I am. Sending you lots of love and strength, you've been lovely to me over the last 24 hrs. xxx


Well, then, that escalated quickly! They must have at least had some verbal interactions/flirting before that, at school.....


----------



## tryingpatience

Emily J said:


> They were just messaging this evening to meet up for an hour in the morning, so rightly or wrongly, I have just sent her this message, right there on his FB convo for them both to see. He is sitting opposite me right now watching TV, unaware that I've just sent it. He'll know as soon as he opens his laptop though. And yes, I know his FB password and totally logged on from my own laptop. Privacy went out the window this morning along with the last fragments of trust. This is the message I sent:
> 'Hi *****, it's Emily. You should know that I have copies of your messages, and that I can't think of anything else to do with them but to send them to your husband, because he has as much right to know as I do and make his own mind up what to do. I hope that the sly excitement of messing around with another woman's husband or another man's wife is still as thrilling for you both now that it's not a secret anymore. I look at my kids faces, and I think of all the years, and the love, and I wonder how you can look at your kids sleeping and still risk them for the sake of a cheap thrill on the back seat of the car with someone who's pretty much a stranger. I guess you just don't love your husband as much as I love mine, although god knows why because he clearly doesn't love me enough anymore. I'm at the point where I don't actually care whether you've ****ed yet or not. It's enough already. I don't care about your marriage or your family, but I will fight to protect mine. Back the **** off.'
> Am now waiting for our kids to go to sleep and then it's time to talk. Thank you all for helping me today. I don't know what I'd have done without somewhere to come and talk. xx


Amazingly done! I would still advise you to let her husband know. Even if it is anonymously. You don't want them to take this underground. I wish I had the strength you did just now when I encountered this situation.

Don't believe anything your husband says. You'll have to watch his actions. Only his actions will tell you if he is really remorseful. The last thing you want is rugsweeping.


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## Roselyn

Inform the other woman's husband of what is going on. He can be vigilant on the other end. There is a poster here that informed the other husband anonymously and wished that she had revealed herself. Be transparent. Lurking around and be invisible will only cause you anxiety.

You have done very well. Are there any Moms at school that you can trust? Revealing what this woman had done and your husband can be another strategy to stop their budding relationship. If they know that other eyes and ears are on them, they will be nervous about their relationship. This affair can stop.

Sorry Emily for your pain. You have shown much courage and good judgment. Continue to listen to your gut feelings as they have proven to be true.


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## Emily J

I have access to our online phone bills and have checked them and there isn't anything there, so am guessing its all been via fb messaging.
Our kids moved recently to this school and he does all the school runs, so I haven't really been able to form any friendships with the parents yet. Unlike him, obviously.
He has mentioned marriage guidance this afternoon, said he feels shoddy and low and ashamed. I think i'm in too much of a hurt / angry place to contemplate MG yet. Bottom line, I love him but don't trust him. Can a marriage go on in that state? How do you stop being angry? I look at him and think he must still be feeling the same things about her today as he did yesterday, even though he said not, that it was all based on nothing real and now the illicitness has gone, the attraction has gone too. Is it that easy, really? I know she's running scared, but how long for? I haven't yet contacted her husband, but I have all the info safely stored and ready to go. If I don't, does it tell her that I am a pushover? I know, I know. Send it, I know.
Thanks for holding my hand through this, I wouldn't have sent that message without you.


----------



## tryingpatience

Emily J said:


> I know she's running scared, but how long for? I haven't yet contacted her husband, but I have all the info safely stored and ready to go. If I don't, does it tell her that I am a pushover? I know, I know. Send it, I know.
> Thanks for holding my hand through this, I wouldn't have sent that message without you.


His actions will give you the answers you need. This is where you'll have to be patient. See...you're getting it :smthumbup:...send it. You don't want to be a pushover. Remember this is your marriage.


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## Roselyn

Emily, you definitely cannot afford to be perceived as a pushover by the Other Woman nor your husband. Be a "Woman Warrior". You will be perceived as a formidable woman that cannot be reckoned with, especially by your husband.

I am a university professor for 28 years. As for your progress, I'm giving you an A+. The Other Woman is definitely running scared. Do not let her run away to fight you another day. Take no prisoners. For your marriage to survive, you must slay your enemies.

You've got quite a support system here in TAM. Listen to the advice of those who have walked your path.


----------



## alte Dame

One of the biggest problems for the betrayed spouse is the feeling of rejection and humiliation that combines with the anger and hurt.

Yes, he was thinking about her. He was excited and you were the background noise in his adventure.

But...you have effectively asserted your rights. You have taken control of the situation. This will help your feelings of rejection. This will also bring you completely back to the center of his thoughts.

Stay outwardly strong and decisive. Let him see you as the focus that you rightfully are. Tell him that you will take time to decide what to do with your marriage. If he wants out, he should say so now. If not, you will make up your mind after you have had time to digest his betrayal.

And, please, please, tell the OW's husband. By doing this, you will kill not just the affair (and it is at least an EA), but you will help break your husband out of his infatuation fog. I suspect that he will quickly snap back to reality and seriously regret what he has done. I think he will sincerely want to repair things. The decision will be yours to make if you stay resolute.


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## Openminded

She may already have done damage control with her husband (as in: "jealous, crazy wife of an acquaintance", etc.) but you need to do that today. The longer you wait the more difficult it will be. 

As to when anger goes and trust returns? Well, that takes a very long time. Years in many cases. You will never trust him the way you did before you realized he was capable of cheating. R is difficult. Very difficult. Just be prepared. If he's truly remorseful, you have a shot at rebuilding your marriage (the old marriage is gone now). 

You've done a great job!


----------



## Emily J

He is yet again out on a school run, and I have yet again accessed his emails to see when she sent a FB request. March 2nd, so three weeks ago. There are also messages in his trash from her that I hadn't seen. 'You must think I'm really shy at school. I'm not, it's just that you're so handsome I don't know what to say to you,' rec'd a week after the friend request. 'You have a gorgeous smile,' a couple of days later. 'I bite my lip when I think of you. Can you do anything about that for me?' last week. So I have a timescale, 3 weeks, and I am pretty clear on the fact that it hadn't become a PA yet. (See me using the lingo!). It seems that he has told me the truth once questioned, and now he is brooding and silent and waiting for me to make decisions. I'm going to do as everyone here says and take my time, really think and process it. I am very relieved it didn't progress to a PA, but mindful also that the only reason it didn't is because I found out and intervened in time. For now. I feel... on hold, if that makes sense? Sort of stuck, am hoping that time will help me to work out what to do next. xx


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## MyTurn

Emily,
If I was in your shoes, I would put the exposure thing on your husband.

I'd tell him that this is his mess and if he wants to have a chance to save the marriage, then he will do it in front of you.

That will be his first step of many in earning back the your trust.


----------



## Extraordinary Way

Track down her husband and tell him ASAP. Blow the fantasy up so they can see each other throw the other under the bus. I wouldnt trust your husband to do it, honestly. He s a liar.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> By Emily
> I love the bones of the man, and despite this he is the best man I know and a really good dad, and to know that he was spending his days thinking of her, building up to screwing someone else's wife
> 
> Bottom line, I love him but don't trust him. Can a marriage go on in that state? How do you stop being angry?


The trust can be built back up to an acceptable level; he is fully responsible to do the building for decades. You are going to be angry and hurt for a long time. *Use that angry and hurt to motivate you to do things for yourself; things that build you up.*


If you do the right things then you will be better off in the years to come. You will be more secure within yourself, more self-sufficient, and not be as vulnerable to be smashed by betrayal. Your job is to get onto a position that you can live with him or without him.


It seems by what you have said so far that you want to stay married to him rather than divorce. Your husband has lost his contribution of security for you but he can get better in other areas and build back some of that security to an acceptable level. If your husband is really a good man like you says then he will become a better husband to you.


*Forgiveness in your time is necessary for YOUR EMOTIONS!* The consequences of his actions are up to you; forgiveness does not mean that consequence go away. Do what is best for you and your children.


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## RS71

I was in your shoes a year ago, and kudos, you are holding up well. My story is a 2 week EA on FB, sexting, and an agreement to meet later in the year. I was not wise enough to solicit advice and instead I stepped directly into it immediately upon detection. My best move was to call the OM 24 hours later at his place of work; this rattled him. It took me 3 more weeks to find OM’s wife, and I took it to her via email. My wife eventually learned I did this and she was furious, but OM’s Wife was appreciative and we stayed in contact for a couple of months in case one or the other wayward spouses did something stupid. In the end the OM W chose not to disclose to OM that she knew, but did a lot of investigation and found that OM had other affairs ongoing. So don’t assume how the OW’s husband will work with the information, he may keep it hush and look to see what else has been going on his world. However, expect that one or the other will continue to test the waters and see if they can turn it off on their own terms and timeline, not yours. Through phone records and FACETIME history, it was clear that it took my WW several weeks to finally stop looking for him. Each time I discovered some other attempt at contact, it reset the pain all over again, and has made recovery exponentially harder. 

You should be grateful for it not having progressed to an PA, however some believe that EAs are equally or more difficult to heal from. In addition to the other reading that has been recommended, Not “Just Friends” – Shirley Glass – was also a very good read. Although my wife protested reading it, she read most of it, and as a result she acknowledged that an EA is an “affair” (although not as bad as an PA). Until this occurred, she wasn’t one bit apologetic because it was just words on paper. 

Now will be a time of information overload, strong emotions, and complete exhaustion. Treat this as a marathon and not a sprint. 
For me, anger worsened over time when I did not see the progress or remorse that I was expecting. Anger is understandable, dealing with and controlling that anger is important.


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## Louise7

Emily J said:


> I have access to our online phone bills and have checked them and there isn't anything there, so am guessing its all been via fb messaging.
> Our kids moved recently to this school and he does all the school runs, so I haven't really been able to form any friendships with the parents yet. Unlike him, obviously.
> He has mentioned marriage guidance this afternoon, said he feels shoddy and low and ashamed. I think i'm in too much of a hurt / angry place to contemplate MG yet. Bottom line, I love him but don't trust him. Can a marriage go on in that state? How do you stop being angry? I look at him and think he must still be feeling the same things about her today as he did yesterday, even though he said not, that it was all based on nothing real and now the illicitness has gone, the attraction has gone too. Is it that easy, really? I know she's running scared, but how long for? I haven't yet contacted her husband, but I have all the info safely stored and ready to go. If I don't, does it tell her that I am a pushover? I know, I know. Send it, I know.
> Thanks for holding my hand through this, I wouldn't have sent that message without you.


Hi Emily. Been at work all day so only just catching up. First off, I have been right where you are now and I'm telling you stuff that worked and stuff I wish I had done different. Today your husband is sorry - sorry he got found out. Your on line phone bills are clean but that doesn't mean he isn't using some kind of app like WhatsApp which I don't think will show up. The time line is wrong. Didn't you say he said it was only going on 10 days and yet deleted fb messages say since 2nd March. If he's lying about this, what else is there. Think back over the last several weeks. Has he been late back from the school run?

Above all, in order to forgive, you need to know what you are forgiving and stop all contact between them. You need to get your information to OW's H sooner than yesterday. If you want to do this anonymously then fine but it really is your best move. If you close this down, and it's still and 'if' you can only do this if pressure is from both sides. 

Next, it's time to go into evidence gathering mode. Channel that anger into something useful.


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## PM1

I just wanted to say you were brave sending her that message and stomping on this. I hope you understand how strong that was.

Good luck sorting things out.


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## SecondTime'Round

I think you're handling things great right now with your emotions....making it clear you need time to think and process all of this. Do NOT rush into excusing this behavior! He may get impatient with how long it takes you to "forgive him...." but there is no time table. 

I've never been in your shoes with regard to there being a spouse to inform (my serial cheater chose women with no attachments), but I'm agreeing with their expertise. You need to tell the other woman's husband. Even if it doesn't feel right NOW, I think you should take the advice from those who have been there and either did that (and didn't regret it) or didn't do it (and did regret it). You're getting a consistent message here.


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## alte Dame

Given how aggressively she was hitting on your WH, I believe it is even more urgent to tell her BH. He has a right to know just what kind of cheating heart he is married to.

Also, because she is so blatant, don't be sanguine that you have squelched it for good. People like her have to see serious consequences to make them stop. Please tell her BH. That is a serious consequence.


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## Remains

Hi Emily. Well done finding out and dealing with before the PA. However, I imagine that even though it wasn't, the problem you have is just the same, in that had you not found out it would have been one!

I am also UK. Beware of counsellors/marriage guidance in my opinion. They have a text book way of dealing with infidelity which is all about rebuilding and not really dealing with, and it doesn't really go for addressing the real issues which are those that cause someone to be unfaithful. The text book way is that there was something wrong with the marriage, ie you, his needs were not being met, the affection amd love was missing blah blah and that's what made him look elsewhere. This is not always the case and in fact is probably rarely the case. They try their best to put the onus on to both of you for the infidelity in one degree or another which is wholly wrong. 

The thing that sticks out most for me is when you describe on the first page of your thread what he's like, an eye for a pretty girl, will always seek that girl out (with his glances) whether in a restaurant or wherever. And that he is, or was, so loving. You were describing my man. He also has poor boundaries. And the illicit nature of the 'sex' was something he quoted. My belief is that anyone who is attached and cannot help themselves to look at a pretty/handsome person in their midst, and even worse, so blatantly in front of their partner, has major issues. That behaviour is degrading to their partner because they are giving someone else 'the eye' and also giving them the come on. Also humiliating to the partner. This behaviour needs addressing. This behaviour has major connotations and huge repurcussions in many areas of life, hence why you find yourself in this position. He needs to show you in a massive way that this behaviour can be modified and does not define him. My man doesn't have that in him, so I have not a lot of faith in your man, I guess it boils down to how much he desires to keep you at all costs.

And regarding exposure, do it! Sooner rather than later. And if you can, make him do it as his penance. This would be a very wise move. It has a 3 fold effect. 1. It shows you he is serious in what he says, his regret, and how he feels for you. It also shows he will deal with this head on and do whatever is necessary. This is the most important reason and will help you iimmeasurably. 2. It gives him a big dose of shame and humility. He also gets to see the look on the person he was doing this to. It brings life to the consequences, not just your family, not just you, but the man who is in your shoes right now also. This act that will bring fear, worry, real consequences, he will associate with the actions he took and be less likely to repeat them if these feelings are associated with the actions. Think Pavlov's dogs. This is a big plus for you also just as number 1 is. 3. It shows the other woman just how serious he is about you. Another major plus for your recovery. If you can make him do this it will clear a lot of issues away for you in one hit that will linger for a very long time if you don't. The issues will still linger, just not with the same intensity and nowhere near the same amount of time.

Edited to add: Obviously you are present too when he takes the evidence to her husband and says sorry.


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## PhillyGuy13

MyTurn said:


> Emily,
> If I was in your shoes, I would put the exposure thing on your husband.
> 
> I'd tell him that this is his mess and if he wants to have a chance to save the marriage, then he will do it in front of you.
> 
> That will be his first step of many in earning back the your trust.


I like this... 

Maybe the two of you go over to their house for tea. Bring your evidence. And have your hubby tell the husband what he did. That eliminates her defense of "some crazy lady thinks I'm after her man". 

Would he be very embarrassd and ashamed? I should hope so. But it at least shows a glimmer of his commitment to you if he is willing to do this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PhillyGuy13

You've pulled up the weed.

Telling the husband ensures you've gotten the root as well.

Although it's not foolproof, telling the husband goes a long way from keeping the affair quelched. If husband remains in the dark, then they can simply lie low for a while, then once they start up again, they will know to be SUPER careful around you. The more people who know the better. He is an extra set of eyes right at the source. I would also think about finding a trusted third party parent at the school as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Emily J

He's had two nights on the sofa, and I'm exhausted, I guess he must be too. He doesn't know what to say, and isn't saying enough to give me any kind of relief. He now knows that I haven't trusted him in a long time and I think that has wounded him, but he can't question me on it because he knows that this episode has proved me right. 
We talked last night, and I was just honest. To be honest with all of you guys too, we married because it was important to me - we'd been together for years and I wanted to be his wife. He probably wouldn't have been fussed. And kids... I wanted them more. It was never a case of planning them, they just came along and I was happier than he was about the pregnancies. In his defense though he is a brilliant dad. It wasn't that he didn't love me, if anything he loved me more in our early years, but somewhere along the way the balance in our relationship slid the other way. I know that in an ideal world it should be equal, but is it ever, really? 
I guess what I'm trying to say, and what I said to him last night, is it's time to think if I've been trying to force a square peg into a round hole, turning him into a husband and dad when he might have preferred to make different choices. It can't be for everyone, can it? Marriage, kids, etc. We've had ups and downs, lots of downs. He gets depressed sometimes, long weeks of darkness. It's hard when that happens, he doesn't have family so I bear the brunt. He's never physical, he isn't a violent man. When he's happy, he's funny, and kind, and good. And the worst thing? He's seemed happier over the last couple of weeks, lighter hearted. I guess that should make me look at what we have, and what is best for all concerned. It's probably not being together, isn't it? 
Sorry, dumping here, this whole thing has turned a spotlight on our relationship and made me question it in lots of ways. I can't settle for having to check up on him all the time, for needing to keep an eye on the horizon for incoming danger in the form of a pretty face. I love him, and in an ideal world I want to love him forever and for him to love me back, but this isn't an ideal world, is it? It's a slightly shoddy one, with lies and mistrust and bloody misery.


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## march16

Emily, questioning, second-guessing, soul searching, I think this is all part of the journey you are on. Goodness your man sounds so like mine, I have had the moody man as well, his dark moods were unbearable, I blamed it on being so unhappy at work, he can be happy and loving too, and is always a good dad. Lately he has been more light hearted and happy - I am guessing this is when the ego stroking, flirting etc would have started. I'm also guessing that these character traits make up the profile of the WS. Once again I will say I am ill equipped to offer you any advice, but you entered marriage together, he would never have married if he didn't want to, you have beautiful children together, and you say he is a good Dad, don't fish for reasons to blame yourself - this is not your fault - you did not sign up for him to treat you this way. I am in a limbo of checking up, mistrusting, not wanting to believe what's staring me in the face...... and as I type this I still don't really believe its true, I'm sick and bloody miserable, I don't want anyone to feel like this, I have been following what you will do next, I'm cheering you on - you are not alone!!
Have you shared this with someone else, a close friend, family - I think you also need in the flesh support too, along with your cyber support.


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## SecondTime'Round

Of course he was happier with a skip in his step the last couple weeks. His ego was being stroked like crazy. But, that's not real. 

Sounds like you're starting to try to blame yourself for this. It's not your fault. Not even a little bit. I'm sure you're not the perfect wife. She doesn't exist. 

You're going to have a lot of roller coaster days....hours....minutes. I personally don't believe that your statement about him being happier if you're not together is correct. So he was "happier" the last few weeks with the anticipation of the next stroke to his ego, the next message from some he barely knows, the possibility of a hook-up......do you think that's how your husband REALLY wants to live his life to find happiness? Always having to have a near stranger pursuing him? I kinda doubt it, even if it felt good at the time...... it was not this particular woman making him happy, and there's nothing extra special about her. Remember, her breath stinks when she wakes up in the morning, too.


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## Remains

Don't make any major decisions while everything is up and down for you. See how the land lies once things start levelling. If you need to do things for your piece of mind, do them.

And let her husband know. It's a cruel thing to hold that information from him. Imagine if he had found out about them, he sent the FB message, it was your husband grovelling not to tell, and he didn't. And you were never given that information?


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## Emily J

march16 said:


> Emily, questioning, second-guessing, soul searching, I think this is all part of the journey you are on. Goodness your man sounds so like mine, I have had the moody man as well, his dark moods were unbearable, I blamed it on being so unhappy at work, he can be happy and loving too, and is always a good dad. Lately he has been more light hearted and happy - I am guessing this is when the ego stroking, flirting etc would have started. I'm also guessing that these character traits make up the profile of the WS. Once again I will say I am ill equipped to offer you any advice, but you entered marriage together, he would never have married if he didn't want to, you have beautiful children together, and you say he is a good Dad, don't fish for reasons to blame yourself - this is not your fault - you did not sign up for him to treat you this way. I am in a limbo of checking up, mistrusting, not wanting to believe what's staring me in the face...... and as I type this I still don't really believe its true, I'm sick and bloody miserable, I don't want anyone to feel like this, I have been following what you will do next, I'm cheering you on - you are not alone!!
> Have you shared this with someone else, a close friend, family - I think you also need in the flesh support too, along with your cyber support.


Thank you M16 - we def seem to be in the same unhappy boat, don't we. Does your H know that you know yet? Sending you strength too. xx
I haven't spoken with anyone about it aside from here. Telling family would be a big no - they'd hold it against him forever if we did decide to stay together. And friends... I feel lame even typing this, but I don't see many people these days since working from home. I have good friends, but we all communicate on line mostly, and to meet suddenly to talk about this feels uncomfortable. The world would prob be a better place without the bloody internet, wouldn't it? FB especially. It diminishes our relationships with people we're close to, and facilitates relationships that shouldn't happen.


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## Emily J

SecondTime'Round said:


> Of course he was happier with a skip in his step the last couple weeks. His ego was being stroked like crazy. But, that's not real.
> 
> Sounds like you're starting to try to blame yourself for this. It's not your fault. Not even a little bit. I'm sure you're not the perfect wife. She doesn't exist.
> 
> You're going to have a lot of roller coaster days....hours....minutes. I personally don't believe that your statement about him being happier if you're not together is correct. So he was "happier" the last few weeks with the anticipation of the next stroke to his ego, the next message from some he barely knows, the possibility of a hook-up......do you think that's how your husband REALLY wants to live his life to find happiness? Always having to have a near stranger pursuing him? I kinda doubt it, even if it felt good at the time...... it was not this particular woman making him happy, and there's nothing extra special about her. Remember, her breath stinks when she wakes up in the morning, too.


Thank you STR, I know you're right. I feel, deep down, that he wants to be a happily married man, but he just isn't. I'm not making excuses for him - I can't even look at him right now. I'm just trying to see things from all angles, trying to look in and see where the cracks are that we've fallen into. I just keep coming back to trust, and how to ever have enough of it to feel peaceful again. 
I'm going to pull myself together today. I might go out for an hour, and then I'm going to go into my office and work with music on. I have to feel productive again, I'm spending as much time thinking about that bloody woman as he was. Or is. Gah.


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## GusPolinski

Emily J said:


> Thank you M16 - we def seem to be in the same unhappy boat, don't we. Does your H know that you know yet? Sending you strength too. xx
> I haven't spoken with anyone about it aside from here. Telling family would be a big no - they'd hold it against him forever if we did decide to stay together. And friends... I feel lame even typing this, but I don't see many people these days since working from home. I have good friends, but we all communicate on line mostly, and to meet suddenly to talk about this feels uncomfortable. The world would prob be a better place without the bloody internet, wouldn't it? FB especially. It diminishes our relationships with people we're close to, and facilitates relationships that shouldn't happen.


The only other person that you absolutely need to tell at this point in time is OWH.


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## SecondTime'Round

Emily J said:


> Thank you M16 - we def seem to be in the same unhappy boat, don't we. Does your H know that you know yet? Sending you strength too. xx
> I haven't spoken with anyone about it aside from here. Telling family would be a big no - they'd hold it against him forever if we did decide to stay together. And friends... I feel lame even typing this, but I don't see many people these days since working from home. I have good friends, but we all communicate on line mostly, and to meet suddenly to talk about this feels uncomfortable. The world would prob be a better place without the bloody internet, wouldn't it? FB especially. It diminishes our relationships with people we're close to, and facilitates relationships that shouldn't happen.


I hear ya! I'm self employed and work from home (I have one client).....the flexibility is awesome, but the isolation isn't always healthy!


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## tryingpatience

Emily J said:


> He's had two nights on the sofa, and I'm exhausted, I guess he must be too. He doesn't know what to say, and isn't saying enough to give me any kind of relief. He now knows that I haven't trusted him in a long time and I think that has wounded him, but he can't question me on it because he knows that this episode has proved me right.


He may not be able to give you relief because he's still hung up on the OW. Besides the messages you uncovered you don't know what kind of schemes they were planning. Right now he's probably still in fantasy land and dreaming. It's up to you to burst that bubble. That's why you are getting all this advice about exposing to the OW husband. Do that first and then figure out what you want to do with your own husband and marriage.


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## happy as a clam

Emily, whether you decide to stay or go, you simply MUST tell the other woman's husband.

If you don't, they will be right back at it again in due time. "Phew! We dodged a bullet there. Let's just be more careful from now on!"

They are adults. They deserve the full consequences of their behavior. Why should the OW get to skate off, scot-free?

As confidently as you sent her the FB message, do the same thing with her husband. Attach the document and hit the SEND button. Boom! It's done. (Drink a big glass of wine again first if you need to )


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## alte Dame

It doesn't sound like the feelings you're expressing right now are new ones. The doubts you have about his emotional commitment to marriage with you seem longstanding. Now you have the fact that you don't really trust him to add to those doubts.

I actually think that you are right to question your marriage the way you are now. I suspect it might force him to finally get off the fence. I actually wonder if, when faced with the reality of what he has to lose, he might begin to see that he isn't really ambivalent after all.

From the messages that you posted from OW, she is what we over here would call a 'skank.' People who are in the throes of an infatuation usually seem happier, so your WH is no different there. But the married skank effect means that his excitement would have been short-lived. What has a lasting effect, in my opinion, are the serious and sincere feelings about your marriage that you are having now. I think these are what will shake his foundations.


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## Roselyn

Emily, you're starting to feel sorry for yourself and also blame yourself. For example, you feel that you were the one who pushed for marriage; another, you are more elated to have the children than he is. You also felt sorry for him when your financial power tipped to your side.

Embrace your strength. Marriage is about facing the changes in your lives with courage. I am a career woman, 57 years of age, married for ongoing 35 years (first time marriage for both). We have gone through ebbs and flows in life. There will be many bumps still ahead in our life. I'm poised to meet them, no matter what comes my way. I have protected my married life fiercely since I was young. I'm not the jealous type, but I dealt with my head in place.

I believe that in your case, a marriage counselor may be helpful to put your relationship on track. You and your husband may need a third party to smooth out the choppy waters as of this time.


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## EleGirl

Emily,

You are in a bad place right now. Don't make any decisions right now.. give it a few days.

Please get the books I suggested in my earlier post. They will help you work through this regardless of the direction that you chose.

Many people put their marriages back together after an affair and go on to have a much better relationship afterwards. Why? Because addressing the affair makes them address issues that have been swept to the side for years.

Now that your husband is looking at the possibility of losing you and full time with his children, it might be a wakeup call for him to realize how important his you, the marriage and the children are to him.

Losing something (or almost losing it) can wake a person up sometimes.


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## Emily J

Have got the books, will read xx
Haven't told her H yet, but only because I'm working out how to.

We talked more tonight. I can't seem to get past his feelings for her, his words on his messages. I look at him, I see him thinking that she's stunning, telling her that he can't stop thinking of her from when he wakes to when he sleeps.
I want to kill him. Literally beat him with my clenched fists.
And then in the next breath I want him to hold me and tell me it's all **** and he's more sorry than he knows how to say. And then I'm back to wanting to kill him again. 
Our kids are asking why dad is sleeping on the sofa. They ask me, because they know better than to ask him. So it is after midnight here and I said to him 'you should come to bed, the kids are worrying' and now I"m in bed and he isn't coming and I'm pissed off with him for not. This is a minefield.


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## EleGirl

This is a mine field. It is most likely that he was caught up in the emotional high of something new... that the things he said were just nonsense to keep the high going.

Do you know if either of them has tried to communicate with the other?


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## march16

Everything he does will piss you off for a while. He's probably wallowing in self pity on the couch and trying to make you feel bad - don't feel bad, but I totally understand where you are coming from with not wanting to upset the kids. xx I'm guessing he has talked to her again - but there is no way they will admit to any contact now - she will be begging him to do his best to damage control the situation I bet.

Get some sleep and take care of yourself.


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## LongWalk

In case no one mentioned it tell OW's husband so that she can enjoy the same medicine as your husband.

I sense that want to save your marriage. For some, Adrianna, for example, fornication terminates the marriage even if BS is remorseful. She had no children.

Karen, another BW, forgave her husband but she is not forgetting.

If your husband loves you, your anger now is making you very desirable. This creates a dilemma: should you take him back to bed?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tryingpatience

Emily J said:


> We talked more tonight. I can't seem to get past his feelings for her, his words on his messages. I look at him, I see him thinking that she's stunning, telling her that he can't stop thinking of her from when he wakes to when he sleeps.
> I want to kill him. Literally beat him with my clenched fists.
> And then in the next breath I want him to hold me and tell me it's all **** and he's more sorry than he knows how to say. And then I'm back to wanting to kill him again.
> Our kids are asking why dad is sleeping on the sofa. They ask me, because they know better than to ask him. So it is after midnight here and I said to him 'you should come to bed, the kids are worrying' and now I"m in bed and he isn't coming and I'm pissed off with him for not. This is a minefield.


It is tricky because you don't want to let him get off so easily. It hasn't been mentioned yet but there is something that you need to be aware of (based on the feelings you've described) and that is hysterical bonding. Look it up. The last thing you want to do is sweep away this problem with sex. It happens unfortunately to many.


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## SecondTime'Round

How goes it, Emily?


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## Emily J

Checking in to say thank you again for all of the support last week. I can't believe that it's only been seven days, it feels like weeks and weeks. Every day since has been long and difficult, and I've def drunk more wine than is healthy or even pleasurable.
We have talked a lot, loads of things that were very difficult to say, and there have been tears on both sides, me most of all for sure. And yes, we did the whole hysterical bonding thing, before I even knew it had an official name, and no, it didn't make me feel better the morning after. 
I know you'll want to know if I've contacted her husband, and no, I haven't yet. Not because I won't, but because it's not something I can do lightly without giving it more careful consideration. I've all the details and conversations securely saved, they can't be deleted or lost.
We're going to try a counselling, for now we both want to stay in the marriage and try to rebuild what we've lost. I honestly don't know how it's all going to turn out, but I'm not ready yet to call it quits.
I've learned this week that I'm stronger than I thought, and can be braver than I knew. I'm still caught in a loop of checking things all of the time, and I don't expect that to end anytime soon. I'm not blinkered, I know there is a possibility that the EA isn't over, and that there is still scope for it to go further. despite what has been said between us.
For the sake of our family I'm going to try to work on forgiveness, but I won't forget, and I'll stay focused and alert for danger. I won't let this be all about her in my head. It's about me, my husband, our family, and out futures. xx


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## SecondTime'Round

Hang in there, Emily!


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## alte Dame

Good luck and check in if you need to.


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## MattMatt

Poke her and PM her "I am good with my hands, too. WANT ME TO SHOW YOU?"


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## SadandAngry

When I told the OM wife, I did it in person. I tracked down her work, took a deep breath as she walked to the door, and just started talking. We talked for perhaps half an hour. This is THE single best step you could take to put a stop to their nonsense. The bubble bursts pretty quickly when they learn their AP dreads the thought of them, when their AP throws them under the bus. Reality is pretty harsh, and it can blow away the fantasy bubble the pair were in.

Additionally, you might consider getting some individual counselling, to help take care of just yourself. You can explore your own mind more fully without worrying about him hearing what you have to say before you are fully ready to share it.


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## Emily J

Cheers guys. x

It's twelve days now since I found out, and it's not getting any easier. He doesn't know what to say to me, and I honestly feel like killing him a lot of the time. He came to bed before me last night, and when I came up just the sound of him sleeping easily had me heading for the sofa after ten minutes of lying beside him and getting tenser and tenser. I don't see how this gets better.


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## EleGirl

What, if anything, has changed in the way the two of you live your lives and your marriage?

what is he doing to start rebuilding his trustworthiness?

What is he doing to win you back?


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## Emily J

you know what? Nothing, really. He is behaving as if he is equally wounded - quiet, withdrawn.
He said this morning that he has felt that particularly over the last couple of days that we are on the edge, as if one bad remark or move could push us in the wrong direction. I had to ask him to clarify what he meant, because it felt almost as if he holds us jointly responsible for what's happened. He said that he isn't sure how to behave, and I said something along the lines of I need more from him than he's giving. More words, more attention, more reassurance. 
I don't know. He looks sorry, like a whipped dog. I just don't FEEL it from him yet. It's 1.30 in the morning here, I'm in bed, he's downstairs. Surely he can work out that he should come up and hold me? Not sex, just be a man and hold his wife who he know he's hurt, who he knows couldn't sleep in the same bed as him last night? Our communication is hideous right now. I feel terribly let down by his handling of this since I found out, and I'm not even able yet to stop wanting to kill the OW either. I keep seeing those words he said to her in front of my bloody eyes and just feeling so, so full of rage at them both that I wonder how I'm keeping a lid on it and behaving rationally.


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## march16

I see the conversation in front of my eyes also, and their 'song' is playing like a soundtrack in my f ing head ........ its doing my head in, It leaves you feeling like all your energy has been sucked right out, take care Emily. I am still following you as well, I have absolutely no useful advice, but am sending my thoughts to you.


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## alte Dame

Keep in mind that men can be completely clueless about what a woman requires at a time like this. They actually believe that we 'need space.' They tell one another that. They counsel one another, "Let her give you signals. Take your cues from her. Give her the space she needs.'

It could very well be that he is doing something as crack-brained as this.


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## bfree

alte Dame said:


> Keep in mind that men can be completely clueless about what a woman requires at a time like this. They actually believe that we 'need space.' They tell one another that. They counsel one another, "Let her give you signals. Take your cues from her. Give her the space she needs.'
> 
> It could very well be that he is doing something as crack-brained as this.


Agreed. But it's not just men. Think back to how many WS's come here asking what they should be doing. Just like there is no textbook for healing after infidelity for the BS, there is no manual for the WS either. It truly sucks all the way around fit everyone. My recommendation is to start communicating what you want and what you need as best you can.


----------



## EleGirl

Emily J said:


> you know what? Nothing, really. He is behaving as if he is equally wounded - quiet, withdrawn.
> 
> He said this morning that he has felt that particularly over the last couple of days that we are on the edge, as if one bad remark or move could push us in the wrong direction. I had to ask him to clarify what he meant, because it felt almost as if he holds us jointly responsible for what's happened. He said that he isn't sure how to behave, and I said something along the lines of I need more from him than he's giving. More words, more attention, more reassurance.
> 
> I don't know. He looks sorry, like a whipped dog. I just don't FEEL it from him yet. It's 1.30 in the morning here, I'm in bed, he's downstairs. Surely he can work out that he should come up and hold me? Not sex, just be a man and hold his wife who he know he's hurt, who he knows couldn't sleep in the same bed as him last night? Our communication is hideous right now. I feel terribly let down by his handling of this since I found out, and I'm not even able yet to stop wanting to kill the OW either. I keep seeing those words he said to her in front of my bloody eyes and just feeling so, so full of rage at them both that I wonder how I'm keeping a lid on it and behaving rationally.


Here is something that might help if your husband will read it and take it to heart.

Originally Posted by chapparal: 

Re: Trying to work marriage out, but seems one-sided. Need perspective please. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.

The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand.*

*YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.*

They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you’ll never cheat again. But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don’t see much change – at least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to moment, from one emotion to the next. They’re unpredictable. There’s no discernable pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can’t sleep. They can’t eat. Their thoughts are obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacks assault them without warning. They cry at the drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and their life until they feel like there’s nothing left. It’s terrible.

It’s an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what’s worse; you don’t know what to do. You’re not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they’ll get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they’re always caught by surprise; first by their partners’ knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never think about what they’ll face “after” until after.

*THE FACT IS:* Though they inflict it, adulterers are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses’ overwhelming emotional distress. Is this real? Is this permanent?

As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to “normal.” You ask yourself, “Is this real?” Then you ask, “Will this ever end?”

*THE SIMPLE ANSWERS ARE:* Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time, often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient, empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse?

*BE HONEST WITH YOURSELF:* If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)

But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding from this disaster you’ve wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage. The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery.

So, take a couple of deep breaths… and let’s start with three foundational facts: 

What you’re seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event.
Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal.
You can be a positive influence on their recovery.
Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat them without looking, continue.

Your first mission is to learn. Learning about your partner’s myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize, understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time.

Below you’ll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don’t be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we’ve added some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there may be little for you to do except to simply “be there.”

*MOST IMPORTANTLY, REMEMBER AT ALL TIMES:* Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse. Act accordingly.

*SECTION 1 - THE WILD PATCHWORK OF EMOTIONS *

*DISBELIEF:* They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can’t be true. They don’t believe it. This is natural. They trusted you and don’t want to believe you did what you did. It is common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.)

*SHOCK:* They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled. They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can’t seem to apply sufficient concentration to their day-to-day lives.

*REALITY:* “Oh my God. It really happened.” They feel they’re getting worse. Actually, reality has just set in. It’s as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they’re buried beneath them. They don’t know where to turn, or can’t. Don’t discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family. Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never accuse them of “being irrational” or “acting crazy.” Be supportive and encouraging. Commend them for seeking help.

*CONFUSION:* They’re disoriented. They can’t think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once they get there they can’t remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them. Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain “triggers.” (Note: Read more about “triggers” below.)

*PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS:* They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains, numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to rule out other causes. 

Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don’t nag. You might instead take control of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don’t cook, take them to restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If they’re not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It’s a good way to ease them into a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide opportunity for you to begin constructively re-establishing your “couplehood.”

*CRYING:* Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing and even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help. So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by gently encouraging them, to “get it all out.” Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you’ll see many more references below. Read “Apologize” in Section 2.)

*SELF-CONTROL:* They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain. Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to regain equilibrium. Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a dam. So don’t be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even themselves. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel this way to you when it happens, it’s beneficial.

*NEED TO KNOW:* They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited. Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, but they need information to process their trauma, move through it, and move past it.

Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you’re still keeping them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don’t match the story you tell, they’ll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you’ll never again be unfaithful.

*WHY:* They ask, “Why did you do this?” They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly. Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can’t stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you, they are still silently asking the question “Why?” over and over and over again.

*INJUSTICE:* They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”

Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”

*SAD TRUTH OF INFIDELITY:* It is unfair. Of course, there is no “justice” that can come from this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read “Share your feelings of guilt and shame” in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of injustice.)

*INADEQUACY:* Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, and often even unlovable. Just as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn’t give them a second thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner, even if they don’t ask. Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They’ll know if you aren’t, and false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more.

*REPEATING:* Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality. You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story – the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.

*IDEALIZING:* Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They long to live in the past, before the affair came along and “messed it up.” Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again. Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and, most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.

*FRUSTRATION:* Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven’t found new ones yet and don’t seem interested in finding any. They feel they’re not coping with grief “right” or they feel they should be healing faster. They don’t understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if they will ever recover and feel better. You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don’t or can’t fully understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they’re doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don’t be surprised if they choose to confide in you over others.

*BITTERNESS:* Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal.

*WAITING:* The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo, they are exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themselves. Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that hold their interest and bring joy back into their life.

*EMOTIONS IN CONFLICT:* This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD: “One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their danger.” The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer: “On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain.” The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and above all… keep talking.

*TRIGGERS:* Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever. It feels like they’re caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating.

Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if they will ever again experience life without the anguish. Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails, clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are.

Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you’re sorry you acted so selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse’s waist or shoulder, or simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again.

It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active for their entire life. Don’t ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should be “over it” because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even decades later. They will NEVER be “over it.” They simply learn to deal with it better as they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.

*SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS?*

Make certain you’ve killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly.

This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means *NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER. *

*GET INTO THERAPY:* Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them and have faith in their methodology. 

*TALK ABOUT IT:* If of you are uncomfortable with your therapist at any time, don’t delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counselling sessions. Your therapist will provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where you are now and determine if you’re making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative periods long enough to allow a “moderate-term” review rather than “short-term.” Expect setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.

*APOLOGIZE:* Actually, that should read: “Apologize, apologize, apologize.” You cannot apologize too often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses develop a finely calibrated “insincerity radar.” A partial or disingenuous apology will feel meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don’t merely say, “I’m sorry.” To a betrayed spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying everything that’s now salient to your partner: “I’m ashamed I cheated on you and I’m so very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me.” As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit.

*REALIZE YOUR PARTNER WANTS TO FEEL BETTER:* There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It’s agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which worries them even more. Remember that they can’t help it: Just as they didn’t choose for this to happen, they don’t choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse’s case), even if they don’t understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themselves – and they are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work. Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them.

*HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING:* While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.

You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don’t know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately.

The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.

*SPEND LOTS TIME WITH THEM:* Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight, the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you feel they’re a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they’ll let you know and you must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but expect them to check up on you. Don’t take offence when this happens. Instead, welcome the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the “Passed the Test” column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being trusted again.

*PHYSICAL CONTACT:* They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so, don’t be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They’re likely to be low on confidence and may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose moments when they don’t expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don’t be surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners experience what’s called ‘Hysterical Bonding.’ Also be aware that during lovemaking they may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want.

*SHARE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT AND SHAME:* If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they’ll wonder if you’re truly capable of being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and question if it’s really worth another try with you. But if you’re like most people who have badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express these feelings, but try. You’ll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It’s a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.

*LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR CHOICE TO RECOMMIT:* You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them ask. Just tell them. If it doesn’t seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and then, you ask yourself, “If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?” (Most of us would answer, “No,” even if we can’t imagine being in that position.) When people give second chances to others, they really want to know that it’s meaningful to, and appreciated by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the opportunity to repair the damage you’ve done and rebuild your marriage. You’ll be surprised how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to re-establish the bond between you.

*HERE’S A GREAT TIP:* You will find it’s particularly meaningful to them when they’re obviously feeling low, but they’re locked in silence and aren’t expressing it to you. Just imagine… In their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say, “I just want you to know how grateful I am that you’re giving me a second chance. Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I’ve been feeling so ashamed of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I’ll never do anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again.”

These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they’re delivered at such a perfect moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these components: 

A statement of gratitude.
An expression of your love.
An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.
An admission that you caused their pain.
An expression of your sense of shame.
A promise that it will never happen again
Unfaithful spouses I’ve counselled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best thing they did to lift their partner’s spirits – as well as their own.

*SECTION 3 - SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STAGES, AFTER THEY WORK THROUGH ALL THEIR GRIEF, PAIN AND STRESS?*

*HOPE:* They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care for others.

*COMMITMENT:* They know they have a choice. Life won’t be the same, but they decide to actively begin building a new life.

*SEEKING:* They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They begin exploring new involvements.

*PEACE:* They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future.

*LIFE OPENS UP:* Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy.

*FORGIVENESS:* While the memory will never leave them, the burden they’ve been carrying from your betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to themselves. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always.

Rejoice in your renewed commitment to spend your lives together in happiness. Celebrate it together regularly!


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## alte Dame

bfree said:


> Agreed. But it's not just men. Think back to how many WS's come here asking what they should be doing. Just like there is no textbook for healing after infidelity for the BS, there is no manual for the WS either. It truly sucks all the way around fit everyone. My recommendation is to start communicating what you want and what you need as best you can.


Fair enough.


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## LongWalk

You still haven't told OW's husband, have you?

Your husband doesn't dare to try and hold you.

Could you break the impasse by having a conversation according to a schedule?


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## SecondTime'Round

I can relate to this a lot. I recently had a text conversation with my STBX and he accused me of "not being understanding." I responded and asked him what "being understanding" would look like to him? He said "it doesn't look like anything." (which was passive aggressive/sarcastic). I pressed and said, "do you mean you want me to have compassion for you? Is that what you mean?" He again responded that he didn't expect anything from me (which was also a dig, if you know him). I asked one more time for him to explain what me being understanding meant and if he expected compassion. He wouldn't answer. I think he DOES expect me to be compassionate toward his plight (in his case he blames it all on his recently diagnosed ADHD).


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## bfree

alte Dame said:


> Fair enough.


You are right about men though, especially conflict avoidant ones. Which, come to think of it nowadays might be most men. lol


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## tryingpatience

Emily J said:


> you know what? Nothing, really. He is behaving as if he is equally wounded - quiet, withdrawn.
> 
> I don't know. He looks sorry, like a whipped dog. I just don't FEEL it from him yet.


Like a whipped dog or a child who isn't able to get what he wants? Like I mentioned earlier, he may still be hung up on her. It's important that you get him to communicate. Do you know if he is still in communication with the OW?


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## drifting on

Emilyj

How are you doing? Has your husband started to communicate with you? I agree that he needs to be communicating with you and truthful about his intentions to meet the OW. If I were in your shoes I would also tell the OW husband so he will apply pressure and she will be too busy saving her own marriage then thinking about your husband. Stay strong and good luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Emily J

Hi all, thanks for the posts and checking in with me, it helps to come here.
So, a few up and down days. We had a row in the middle of the night a few days back, I was just so bloody full of anger it had to come out. Then a couple of more peaceful days together, kind of like normal but nothing like normal, because I'm looking at everything with their words to each other running in the back of my head.
We took the kids to a theme park for the day, and I couldn't stop wondering if it will turn out to be the last family day we get to share.
It's still school holidays here until next week, so the opportunity for contact between my H and the OW have been removed. It feels as if we are living in a bubble now, and come next week it's going to burst, back to all of that clock watching and anxiety.
I checked his laptop this morning while he was out, and found a stickie note hidden on the desktop with a transcript of all of their FB convo's on, all of the stuff I hadn't seen up to the day I discovered it.
Broke my bloody heart to read it. Is all this digging helping? I know I can't bury my head in the sand, but I feel as if someone has scooped out my insides again. Besides all the flattering each other, and the ****ty 'you've got an amazing body' flirting, what really gets me is the nicer stuff - the bolstering he gave her (and her in return), the 'you're a lovely, amazing person' 'I promise I won't hurt you' 'I've never done anything like this before but I'm so drawn to you I can't stop' 'I'd love to be the one making you smile,' things. 
And you know what else too? 'We both have amazing families and would never want to jeapordise that, but this could be amazing if we're careful.' and she said 'we need to take our time, delete your messages, okay?' 
Don't want to jeapordise our families? It's like a joke that it was even said in the conversation between them, hidden in amongst crap about rubbing baby oil on this, and sitting on that. Gah. I am back to being hideously wound up, all these new words to process.
Do I think they are still in touch? It's been two weeks since I discovered things and confronted him, and since then I've been keeping a log of internet usage on his phone and any calls or texts sent. (I have access to the online bills. I don't think he knows that). He hasn't made any undue calls, but he uses the net often. Texts also show to a weird number, not a phone number, just a row of 9 numbers. I don't know what that is.
So yeah. I was doing better, and now I'm right back down in the pit. We have kids coming to play this afternoon, and then dinner with friends tonight. Happy families.


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## SecondTime'Round

I don't know if continuing to find new stuff is good or bad. I know it hurts and those words will probably always be in your brain . That stuff you posted must be so hard to read . I get it. I can't get the memory of my STBX telling me how much he loves to F the skinny, tight, sexy body of his OW. I do think the pain of it will lessen over time, but only if he starts treating YOU the way he was treating HER. Is he doing any of that??

I'd try to find out what that 9 digit number is on his phone. 

And, you still need to tell OW's husband.....


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## Emily J

I know I do. I will, I just don't know when or how. I'm not ready to do it yet, if I'm honest.
I've tried pretty hard to track the number, the internet is failing me on this one. I wondered if it was some sort of messaging service, but I don't know. He doesn't have any chat apps on his phone that I can see, or any other email accounts. She mentioned instagram on their messages, but neither swapped names so I can't look at that, and as far as I know he doesn't use it anyway. Up to a few months back he wasn't into social media at all, and his phone is quite old. 
Yeah, those messages were a tough read. God, what your H said to you was hideous, he actually said those words? There's no coming back from some things, is there? 
He is confused by me today. Yesterday I was better, today I am low again. He's noticed, and asked if he's done anything to make me feel worse today. I refrained from saying yes, I've read over your conversations with her this morning that you'd handily saved for posterity. He isn't even very good at covering his bloody tracks.


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## bfree

Why did he save their conversations? That bothers me.


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## Emily J

Bothers me too. 
Have just read them again and am in pieces. Just so intimate, and all out of nowhere over the course of a couple of weeks FB chats. I know from snippets that they haven't actually met up, or hadn't at the point I found out. How can you grow so close so quickly to someone you don't even know aside from glimpses at a schoolgate? What is really on my mind is that neither of them chose to stop it. I intervened - but are their feelings still just the same? He says not, that it was a wake up call and he can't believe he was so stupid. But... I don't know. Feelings don't just go away, do they? I'm stuck now, I don't want to tell him I found the transcript because he'll know I've been looking and it's prob best I keep it quiet in case he updates it with new stuff. It's rotten, all of this. It makes me feel shabby and second rate. She is my opposite in pretty much every way. I'm tall, she's short. I'm blonde, she's dark. I'm curvy, she's skinny. It's like he's gone out of his way to choose someone that makes his distaste for me most obvious.


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## SecondTime'Round

If he's also re-reading those messages, he's still emotionally cheating . Bothers me, too, that he went through the trouble to save all of them. 

I really think I'd get the OW's husband's email address, copy/paste that entire file and just email it to him.

ETA: And yes, he actually said those words to me (while he was simulating doing her from behind).


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## drifting on

Emilyj,

Your husband still appears to be emotionally attached. Saving their correspondence to re-read is feeding into his emotional desire to be with her. Whenever he misses her he can pull up those messages and read her words, this satisfying his emotional urge. I am sorry to tell you that as I'm sure it just added to the pain and devastation you feel so intensely now. The OW husband needs to know now if you can get to him. I would give a printed copy of all correspondence so he sees the emotional attachment as well. As for the number you don't recognize I would ask the OW BH if he recognizes the number. You need for the OW to become preoccupied with saving her marriage to remove her from your husband. They may not be in contact and then again they may be, it's anyone's guess at the moment. 

Stay strong you are handling yourself very well. You will feel a roller coaster of emotions and this is perfectly normal. Also your anger will intensify as this process goes along, this is normal too. Just keep your head above water and take time for yourself and breathe. There is nothing easy about this process and it may get worse before it can get better. If I were you I would keep digging and monitor your husband. I'm the type that needs to know everything to see what I am forgiving for. You are also learning exactly what your husband is capable of, and that is very painful. Best of luck to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bfree

Emily J said:


> Bothers me too.
> Have just read them again and am in pieces. Just so intimate, and all out of nowhere over the course of a couple of weeks FB chats. I know from snippets that they haven't actually met up, or hadn't at the point I found out. How can you grow so close so quickly to someone you don't even know aside from glimpses at a schoolgate? What is really on my mind is that neither of them chose to stop it. I intervened - but are their feelings still just the same? He says not, that it was a wake up call and he can't believe he was so stupid. But... I don't know. Feelings don't just go away, do they? I'm stuck now, I don't want to tell him I found the transcript because he'll know I've been looking and it's prob best I keep it quiet in case he updates it with new stuff. It's rotten, all of this. It makes me feel shabby and second rate. She is my opposite in pretty much every way. I'm tall, she's short. I'm blonde, she's dark. I'm curvy, she's skinny. It's like he's gone out of his way to choose someone that makes his distaste for me most obvious.


I was hoping you'd respond that he saved them because you told him not to delete anything as part of the trust rebuilding. If he did this on his own then those transcripts are a trophy to allow him to keep an emotional attachment to her. I don't believe he's had an epiphany at all. I think he's just afraid that he got caught and I wouldn't be at all surprised if they were just taking a short break while things cool off. I think it's going to start up again but they'll just be more careful to hide it better.


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## tryingpatience

Emily J said:


> Feelings don't just go away, do they?


No they don't. He needs a 2x4 to really wake up. The only wake up call he got so far was that he needs to be more careful about communicating with the OW. Keep being vigilant.

It's still an EA for him that's why he kept those messages. They make him feel good.


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## Emily J

What's a 2x4?
Yeah, the fact that he's kept them has to mean it's because he wants to read them again, I know. I can't pull it together today. I think he's mad with me for such an about face -yesterday I was trying to be serene, today I am simmering with silent anger because of reading the saved messages, but obviously he doesn't know that.
It's going to be a long evening. Dinner with friends, and wine. Am scared I'll have too much and we'll end up rowing again and I'll spew out what I found, but also feel as if only a glass of wine or two is going to help right now. I don't think I've ever been this emotionally messed up. 
I almost deleted his transcript so he couldn't read it, but what's the point? When's the part where he steps up, deletes stuff himself, and makes me feel like the most special woman in his world?
I don't feel anywhere near certain that we will make it though this. 
Is knowledge power? I feel less powerful today than I did yesterday.


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## SecondTime'Round

Emily J said:


> What's a 2x4?
> Yeah, the fact that he's kept them has to mean it's because he wants to read them again, I know. I can't pull it together today. I think he's mad with me for such an about face -yesterday I was trying to be serene, today I am simmering with silent anger because of reading the saved messages, but obviously he doesn't know that.
> It's going to be a long evening. Dinner with friends, and wine. Am scared I'll have too much and we'll end up rowing again and I'll spew out what I found, but also feel as if only a glass of wine or two is going to help right now. I don't think I've ever been this emotionally messed up.
> I almost deleted his transcript so he couldn't read it, but what's the point? When's the part where he steps up, deletes stuff himself, and makes me feel like the most special woman in his world?
> I don't feel anywhere near certain that we will make it though this.
> Is knowledge power? I feel less powerful today than I did yesterday.


A 2 x 4 ("two by four....as in two inches by four inches) is a piece of wood . I guess the Brits call it something different!  (Your question gave me a chuckle)

You're going to have up and down days. It's a roller coaster, and he NEEDS to realize that. 

I hope your dinner goes ok <3. No more than 2 glasses of wine for you!


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## tryingpatience

It's a piece of wood in those measurements used for construction. But in your case it's something to hit him over the head with. Sometimes people also refer to the 2x4 here as getting hit with a dose of reality.

The back and forth emotional roller coaster is just the beginning. It's to be expected as you and your H try to reconcile.


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## alte Dame

What you've quoted from her indicates that she is aggressive and perfectly OK with cheating. It sounds like she's done it before and knows how to hide things.

I would bet that they have found a way to stay in contact and meet. BS's always think that the WS doesn't have the opportunity to cheat - 'he's always at home or work'; 'she lives three hours away,' etc. - but they always find a way. Pretty much always.

If you want to reconcile, you need NC. 

Find out what that 9-digit number is.

And tell her husband. If you want him out of his fog, you have to do that. Copy those chats and get them to the OWH.


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## karole

Buy a VAR and put it in his car.


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## Openminded

Right now, the OW is not dealing with any consequences. There's nothing stopping her from continuing to remain in contact with your husband (that mystery number could obviously shed some light on that). 

You really do need to blow that up. Now.


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## Mr Blunt

> When's the part where he steps up, deletes stuff himself, and makes me feel like the most special woman in his world?


If your husband does not understand it yet then he needs to know that he has to go way overboard in reassuring you what you said above. He is like a junior high school boy feeding his ego with those messages from the OW. This man is over 40 years old and he thinks that this woman that has children with another man is his ticket to a fulfilled life? What an idiot!

He saved those messages because they feed his ego but the saving of those messages also tells that he is a betrayer of his marriage, his wife, and his own children. Yes he is hurting his own children by devastating you, the children’s mother. *Your husband is a weak punk that cares more for his ego than for the welfare of his children and marriage. He needs to know that!*

Get a written plan and give it to your husband! That plan will be very blunt about what he is to do and with you making all the actions for him to complete. If he fails then you need to make another plan that will give him the harsh consequences that he deserves. The harsher the consequences the better because he needs a lot of 2x4s across this head. The 2x4 is an American expression that tells you to hit him with a 2x4 piece of lumber. The harder the whack and the harder the lumber the better (Hard Oak)

The only good thing about this situation is that he has not had sex with her.* Your husband is doing a lot of damage to you and his children and he can be stopped if he starts paying the price for his pure selfishness and immaturity*. Unfortunately it will be up to you to give him most of the consequences. *You are a faithful woman that has a husband that is acting like a kokroach!*


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## Remains

Yes we use 2x4 in the UK. Emily it's like a fence post, and you hit him with it...just in case you missed it 1st time round. 

Get hold of her husband and show those 2 skanks who they DON'T mess with. You really have got to do this. They are highly likely to start up again with better cover this time. He isn't crying and distraught. You haven't barely registered on his richter scale in terms of what he's done and the damage he's done. He's not frightened and fixing manically. And you are moping which makes you look weak and unattractive (I know that's not the case but to a man who is on the edge of making off with another woman...). Get angry and show them the natural actions of a woman who deserves to be treated properly and with respect. He has got away with it because you haven't left him or gone nuclear on him. He is possibly looking at a carte blanche pass to continue it with more care. Show him you are not to be messed with. And show her too. She deserves that at the least. Her husband deserves to know too.


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## Emily J

Should I tell him I read the whole transcript of their relationship? I feel like opening it up on my laptop and going through it comment by comment to make him face it. Will that show him I am not to be messed with, or make me look even weaker? I don't know the bottom from the top today.


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## Nucking Futs

Emily J said:


> Should I tell him I read the whole transcript of their relationship? I feel like opening it up on my laptop and going through it comment by comment to make him face it. Will that show him I am not to be messed with, or make me look even weaker? I don't know the bottom from the top today.


I wouldn't even mention it to him yet. Not until you're sure OWH has a copy of it. And I think you should see a solicitor and show him a copy of it to see if it's grounds for an adultery divorce. Not saying file, just a consultation to see where you stand.


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## march16

Hi Emily
We are in this together.... its good to hear your updates. Yes, some days are normal, you can function, then the next you are back to feeling the lowest, self loathing, awful mess. I hear ya. That OW sounds like a pro to me - giving him the '101 To Cheating' delete your messages...... she knows what she is doing, when you are ready, you need to snap them out of this, her husband needs all the messages - you have hardcopy proof - inappropriate incriminating conversations, this will be his wakeup call too I think, a bit of fear of getting a smack in the nose from the husband. But....who am I to dish out the advice? I know you are thinking of your kids, wondering how will this affect any chances of R, etc, don't let him know you saw the extra messages, make sure you have a copy of them.....I hope you are feeling stronger today. I wish I could practice what I preach!! I am the queen of jumping the gun and blurting out what I found to him!! Feeling very angry for you here, the OW sounds like a master manipulator, I wonder how many times she has done this before?!


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## Remains

I would hold onto it for the moment until you have told ow husband or until he adds more to it. Whichever comes first. 

Though if you can't help yourself but hit him with them then so be it. I don't think I could hold it in, though I had no advice on my discovery day and beyond. If you do hit him with them, his reactions and those that follow will tell you something too. Though even in saying that, mine would have been very upset, given the correct responses, just for all the wrong reasons and as soon as the dust settles revert back to his modus operandi.

And yes, it's very concerning he has a transcript of her love messages to him. My man had a little black book. My man also sounds similar in your description of yours on your first or second page.


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## bfree

Emily J said:


> Should I tell him I read the whole transcript of their relationship? I feel like opening it up on my laptop and going through it comment by comment to make him face it. Will that show him I am not to be messed with, or make me look even weaker? I don't know the bottom from the top today.


Send it to his mother.


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## alte Dame

Make sure you have copies of the messages and then get them to the OWH. You will have a million reasons not to do this. You think you stopped her by confronting her on fb. What you did was give her a little heartburn until she realized that you weren't going to expose her. Since then, she's most likely managed to find a way to be in touch with your WH and the two of them are furtively communicating to figure out how to meet.

This is what happens. You think that you know how your WH naturally acts and reacts, but you don't. Not anymore. He is now officially capable of being a man that you don't know at all, a lying man who sees you as an obstacle to what he wants.

Try to wrap your head around the possibility that he is moping because you thwarted his plans. This is common and likely.

Don't let him know that you found the messages. Copy them and get them to her BH.

The experienced people here will tell you one after the other to do this. The man, after all, has a right to know, and you need to break them up.


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## drifting on

Emily J said:


> Should I tell him I read the whole transcript of their relationship? I feel like opening it up on my laptop and going through it comment by comment to make him face it. Will that show him I am not to be messed with, or make me look even weaker? I don't know the bottom from the top today.



Don't show him until you have two copes stashed in two separate places. Have a third copy to show him AFTER you have given a fourth copy to OWH. Protect you and your kids first, if he's mad at you he isn't remorseful or regretful yet. You are on the emotional roller coaster and this ride won't stop for a while. It simply sucks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PhillyGuy13

Emily... It's been 18 days since your first post... You need to tell the woman's husband!

Show him the transcript. Tell him what you know. Make this woman regret the day she joined the PTA.

Don't want to destroy their marriage? Forget that, why should you suffer alone?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tryingpatience

Same advice over and over again right? It's based on experience. I didn't believe the advice at first. I did believe it after I read and learned about what others have been through here.


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## eric1

Emily, it is clear that the advice is that you are about 17 days behind talking to this woman's husband. It's very solid advice and I suspect that you don't need another voice in the chorus.

However from a different viewpoint, there is an innocent man sitting somewhere right now making plans with his loving wife for whatever life brings him. Each minute extends this awful reality that he is currently ignorant of. Your situation truly is horrible, but isn't his moreso?

Also, as others have astutely said, your husband is not interested in reconciliation at his point. He thinks that if he flies under the radar everything will be swept under the rug. It is HIM who is the one who needs to be taking action. Taking action is reconciliation, moping is remorse. Remore sucks - judging by him saving their conversation the sources of this remorse is missing his lover.

If he wants to reconcile, then your husband is going to have to be the one to contact OHW. If he will not then it's your absolute karmic responsibility that you do this NOW. The poor guy is suffering and you are literally the only human in the world who can help him. For all the kindness that the users here have shown you, please "pay it forward". I wish someone had done the same for me.


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## Nucking Futs

eric1 said:


> Emily, it is clear that the advice is that you are about 17 days behind talking to this woman's husband. It's very solid advice and I suspect that you don't need another voice in the chorus.
> 
> However from a different viewpoint, there is an innocent man sitting somewhere right now making plans with his loving wife for whatever life brings him. Each minute extends this awful reality that he is currently ignorant of. Your situation truly is horrible, but isn't his moreso?
> 
> Also, as others have astutely said, your husband is not interested in reconciliation at his point. He thinks that if he flies under the radar everything will be swept under the rug. It is HIM who is the one who needs to be taking action. Taking action is reconciliation, moping is remorse. Remore sucks - judging by him saving their conversation the sources of this remorse is missing his lover.
> 
> *If he wants to reconcile, then your husband is going to have to be the one to contact OHW.* If he will not then it's your absolute karmic responsibility that you do this NOW. The poor guy is suffering and you are literally the only human in the world who can help him. For all the kindness that the users here have shown you, please "pay it forward". I wish someone had done the same for me.


Nope nope nope nope. This is as big a nope as trying to breed giant spiders for petting zoos. 

Do not let your husband even suspect you might contact his lovers husband. If you do, he will warn OW and she will gaslight her husband about the crazy woman that's going to be accusing her of cheating. Give her a few days warning and you won't even be able to get near him.


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## eric1

I meant more in the sense that they drive to her husband's lover's house together and make her husband come clean.


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## Nucking Futs

eric1 said:


> I meant more in the sense that they drive to her husband's lover's house together and make her husband come clean.


That would be better but I'd prefer Emily contact OWH secretly and give him the data. Then see how long it takes for her husband to get the word.


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## eric1

Well it depends on which app they've moved their communication to. Some pop up right away and some will, covertly, not pop anything up until her husband checks it.


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## Emily J

Hey guys. So, a rough run of days, and no, I've not done anything about her husband yet. I get it, and I am sure it will come to it, but I've not done it yet.
As is predictable, I didn't manage to keep my mouth shut about finding the whole conversation stored on his laptop. I couldn't, I was so full to the brim of anger that it wouldn't stay in.
I had wine, and I sat with him, and I started out well. I wanted to say that I am not going to be a victim, and he should either be man enough to be my husband, or man up and walk away if he couldn't do that. And I did say those things, but then somehow I got to asking why he'd saved their conversations. I said it hurt to know he had them, and asked him to delete them. That was the point it turned awful. He didn't want to. He got angry, told me to do it myself if it upset me so much. I just stared at him, shocked, and after long minutes he huffed and got his laptop, messing around and saying he didn't even know how to delete a sticky. Funny that he knew how to create one, and how to create a second desktop so I couldn't see it, though. Anyway, he was angry , I was angry, and I am not proud of how out of control I was. There was shouting, and I said horrible things, and then I hurled my full glass of red wine across the room. Not at him or anyone else, just pure bloody rage had me acting in a way I've never before. I ended up soaked in the stuff, red wine in my hair, crawling around the floor getting the glass up. He was shocked, I was shocked, we ended up holding each other and just... I don't know. Spent. I am all over the place, I feel that I'm falling to pieces. The kids go back to school tomorrow, back to him seeing her twice a day. He swears that nothing will happen. I feel that it is inevitable right now. It's like sitting on a timebomb, I am anxious and unhappy and shouting at the kids and can't seem to breathe in deep enough. This whole thing is just a nightmare.


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## alte Dame

Tell her BH and the time bomb might not go off.


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## Primrose

alte Dame said:


> Tell her BH and the time bomb might not go off.


:iagree: 

Having her husband in the know will allow him to be proactive on the other side making it even harder for the two of them to fall back into communicating with each other.


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## Mr Blunt

> By Emily
> it's obvious that they haven't got as far as sex yet, but they clearly are close. It's flirting - 'I can't stop thinking about you,' 'How am I going to get through half term without seeing you every day,' 'I need to see you, to talk and ... more' 'you're turning me into a lovesick teenager' 'I'm good with my hands, I could show you,' 'can't get through the day without a glimpse of you' 'you're all I can think about from the moment I wake to the moment I go to bed,' - heavy flirting, but not yet meeting and sex. It's pretty obvious they've been flirting and messaging for a while, and that left alone it will most probably go further. What do I do? I am so bloody angry with him. Our kids, our marriage, our home... our whole lives, and he is calling some other woman gorgeous and telling her he can't stop thinking about her or wanting her. Am gutted
> 
> I got to asking why he'd saved their conversations. I said it hurt to know he had them, and asked him to delete them. That was the point it turned awful. He didn't want to. He got angry, told me to do it myself if it upset me so much. I just stared at him, shocked, and after long minutes he huffed and got his laptop, messing around and saying he didn't even know how to delete a sticky.


Emily
Your husband is at least in a very deep EA if not a PA.* Him suffering severe consequences will give you the best chance of jolting him out of his teenage fantasy*. You going berserk and yelling and throwing a full glass of red wine is not enough.
I know that you are in a tough spot because you are very afraid that you may lose him or make things worse. You will have to decide if you are willing to allow him to treat you like a door mat and ravage your emotions in order for you to not have to take drastic actions and hold on to whatever will remain of your love for him.

If you decide that you are not going to tolerate him and are willing to lose him then you have some options that may jolt him enough. The first thing to do is to inform the husband of the OW. Give him all the information you have and hold back nothing. Get to an attorney and have some preliminary work done on divorce and your husband should be notified of that from your attorney.

Could this drive your husband father into his fantasy? Yes, but it also has a good chance of jarring him enough so that he cannot treat his wife like a second class lover. You cannot make him desire you more than her but you can get respect.* I know you want love but at this point you have to get respect first*. You can probably come up with some other consequences for him but I am just giving a few for starters.

When the OW’s husband finds out there is a very good chance that she will pay a heavy price and may not be so eager to act like a teenager. She may even reject your husband and that will put a huge damper on his ego and selfish fantasy. Reality sometimes has a way of making you want to change.

*The bottom line is that you have to do a lot more ACTIONS with serious consequences rather than emotional outburst and talking.* Do you have family, friends, church or anyone that can help you get stronger?

Sorry to be so blunt with harsh realities but you cannot bring this to as head without taking very strong actions. Infidelity is like the jungle kingdom; only the strong survive!


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## jin

What is stopping you from informing the OWH? 

That he didn't want to delete the sticky is a huge red flag. He is still in the fog. He is angry that you found out and upset his plans. He got more angry because you ask him to delete his memento of his almost OW. A way of keeping the fantasy alive whenever he wants a break from reality.


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## Sports Fan

Emily i am really sorry you arer going through this. However i am certain of one thing.

Failure to tell her husband will quite possibly result in them taking the affair underground and picking up where they left off after they feel the dust has settled.

You owe her nothing and your husband needs to learn that you will not tolerate any future indescretions.

At the moment he knows you are pisse...d off at him but is obviously trying to ride out the storm.

Wishing you heaps of strength.


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## aine

tryingpatience said:


> It's a piece of wood in those measurements used for construction. But in your case it's something to hit him over the head with. Sometimes people also refer to the 2x4 here as getting hit with a dose of reality.
> 
> The back and forth emotional roller coaster is just the beginning. It's to be expected as you and your H try to reconcile.


With the Brits it's usually a heavy wooden rolling pin!


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## aine

Emily J said:


> Hey guys. So, a rough run of days, and no, I've not done anything about her husband yet. I get it, and I am sure it will come to it, but I've not done it yet.
> As is predictable, I didn't manage to keep my mouth shut about finding the whole conversation stored on his laptop. I couldn't, I was so full to the brim of anger that it wouldn't stay in.
> I had wine, and I sat with him, and I started out well. I wanted to say that I am not going to be a victim, and he should either be man enough to be my husband, or man up and walk away if he couldn't do that. And I did say those things, but then somehow I got to asking why he'd saved their conversations. I said it hurt to know he had them, and asked him to delete them. That was the point it turned awful. He didn't want to. He got angry, told me to do it myself if it upset me so much. I just stared at him, shocked, and after long minutes he huffed and got his laptop, messing around and saying he didn't even know how to delete a sticky. Funny that he knew how to create one, and how to create a second desktop so I couldn't see it, though. Anyway, he was angry , I was angry, and I am not proud of how out of control I was. There was shouting, and I said horrible things, and then I hurled my full glass of red wine across the room. Not at him or anyone else, just pure bloody rage had me acting in a way I've never before. I ended up soaked in the stuff, red wine in my hair, crawling around the floor getting the glass up. He was shocked, I was shocked, we ended up holding each other and just... I don't know. Spent. I am all over the place, I feel that I'm falling to pieces. The kids go back to school tomorrow, back to him seeing her twice a day. He swears that nothing will happen. I feel that it is inevitable right now. It's like sitting on a timebomb, I am anxious and unhappy and shouting at the kids and can't seem to breathe in deep enough. This whole thing is just a nightmare.


You are waiting for their EA to progress.You MUST tell the OW's husband immediately, she will be too busy doing damage control at her end to deal with your H and then you both have a chance. Then do the 180 on your H, he needs to be the one begging for your forgiveness, a second chance, etc. You are going too easy on him. Ask him to move out until he gets his act together, maybe he will wise up if he realises what he stands to lose. As it is, he has it all, with little consequences while you remain anxious, unsure and on a roller coaster. get off the roller coaster and take action.


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## SecondTime'Round

Saving the sticky and NOT WANTING TO DELETE IT, and furthermore TELLING YOU that he doesn't want to delete it is very, very disrespectful to you as his wife.

Throwing the wine in a rage is perfectly understandable, but it didn't make you feel any better in the end, did it? It didn't help anything. All it does is give him ammunition to re-write history and say, "see? This is why I did it! Look at how you act!" (I've been here, but for me it was water, and right at him, not across the room.)

What WILL make you feel better (and like you have control, which is one of the reasons you're so angry) is to expose to the OW's husband. It will make you feel better, and it will help curtail any progression of this relationship, if there's hope of that at all.


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## drifting on

Emily j

On page ten I told you that saving this correspondence was bad. It is keeping him emotionally attached to the OW. Numerous posters have advised to tell the OWH so he can help you. He will be applying pressure on the other end thus freeing you of some worry. With your husbands reaction to not delete the correspondence means he is still fully connected in his EA. You have read that they planned to meet, and it wasn't for you to benefit, it was to have sex. You need to expose to shock your husband from his thoughts, you have not done this even though you told him you know. He has pacified you and suffered no real hard consequences.

Yes they will talk again, develop a plan and continue because you are showing weakness. The OW does not believe you will tell her husband, what's worse is they will concoct a plan to make you appear crazy. So when you do tell the OWH he will be less likely to believe you. You need to expose now, you need to be tough, you need to be ruthless. I personally exposed my WW affair to her OMW and it worked out perfectly. Understand you are blowing up his marriage and initially he won't be happy but that's not your worry. Your worry is your family and removing the enemy from advancing into your marriage. Best of luck to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SecondTime'Round

drifting on said:


> Emily j
> 
> On page ten I told you that saving this correspondence was bad. It is keeping him emotionally attached to the OW. Numerous posters have advised to tell the OWH so he can help you. He will be applying pressure on the other end thus freeing you of some worry. With your husbands reaction to not delete the correspondence means he is still fully connected in his EA. You have read that they planned to meet, and it wasn't for you to benefit, it was to have sex. You need to expose to shock your husband from his thoughts, you have not done this even though you told him you know. He has pacified you and suffered no real hard consequences.
> 
> Yes they will talk again, develop a plan and continue because you are showing weakness. The OW does not believe you will tell her husband, what's worse is they will concoct a plan to make you appear crazy. So when you do tell the OWH he will be less likely to believe you. You need to expose now, you need to be tough, you need to be ruthless. I personally exposed my WW affair to her OMW and it worked out perfectly. Understand you are blowing up his marriage and initially he won't be happy but that's not your worry. Your worry is your family and removing the enemy from advancing into your marriage. Best of luck to you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Agree with all of this.

Also, Emily, now that they are resuming contact twice a day, that is two times a day you're going to have a visual in your mind of their interactions together, whether they are accurate or not. This is only going to fuel your resentment and start further fights when you can't hold it in anymore and say, "so did you see your girlfriend today? did she look hot?" You will analyze what he's wearing before he goes to the school, how he smells, whether or not he shaved.....

This will all drive you crazy. Tell the BH.


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## Nucking Futs

Emily, did you ever watch a horror movie and think to yourself "Don't go in the basement! Don't go in the basement!"? You know, if we could just talk to that person in that movie we could tell them not to go in the basement and they wouldn't run into the guy with the machete and a taste for human flesh.

Everybody is telling you to tell her husband. Every day without telling him you go farther and farther into the basement. We _know_ how badly you are messing up by not telling him. We _know_ that your husband is still in the affair. We _know_ the best chance for you to save your marriage is for you to get off your ass and take the single most important step to ending it. 

But you just keep going down those basement stairs.


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## karole

Emily, I think you should inform the OW's husband if, for no other reason, than she begged you not too.


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## Openminded

His reaction told you all you need to know. Your R is not real. He should be doing everything possible to rebuild your marriage and he isn't. Why? Because he's too concerned about holding on to whatever he has left of her. 

Even if she's over him (and who knows if that's even true) he's not over her.


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## tryingpatience

Emily I do feel for you. But you're wrecking any chance of true R by not exposing. You can't just appeal to his good sense because right now he doesn't have any. It has to get real and it has to get real fast before he tries to contact the OW again and before it goes underground. The OW has already shown to you that she is capable. Him keeping the sticky is proof that he is as well.


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## SecondTime'Round

How are things going, Emily?


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## Roselyn

By not telling the Other Woman's Husband, you are delaying the inevitable. You have exposed your hand; thus, will allow your husband to plot and plan to go underground. He values the emails of the Other Woman. He refuses to delete them. I would dare say that his love for this woman may be more than his love for you at this point. 

Wake up, Emily. By the actions of your husband, he doesn't care about your pain. He wishes to keep momentos of the Other Woman through their records of communication. He will go stronger and colder and you will grow weaker. You will be tortured. Expose the Other Woman to her husband. You need to take your husband's and the Other Woman's relationship to a head. It is a matter of time when these two will have sex and your husband will leave you anyway. Your husband's actions do not demonstrate any remorse at all.


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## Emily J

I'm up and down secondtimearound, thanks for asking after me. 
I don't feel able to post here really because I've not told her H. I get it, I should, I hear you all, I am just not bloody brave enough. I could make excuses and say that it's this and that, and you'll all tell me to get over it and do it anyway. I am that girl in the movies running into the basement instead of out of the door and I can't do a thing about it.
He has been trying to make amends. Being kind, attentive, etc. He gave me flowers, and suggests doing things together.
This morning he said 'I know those words hurt you massively, but we still have so much that is just ours and not touched by this. I've never held her, or touched her, or even talked to her alone.'
This evening my littlest child said 'Can (OW's son) come and play, mummy? Daddy is always bumping into his mum at school for chats, he could ask her?'
So yeah. They've never talked to each other. Right. The morning school run takes him fifty minutes now. The school is ten minutes away. I know he parks up, takes the kids in, etc, but still, that is half an hour or so longer than needs be.
I know what you're thinking, please don't say it. I'm just typing this here to get it out of my head.


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## karole

Emily, get a VAR and put it in his car!


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## happy as a clam

Emily J said:


> I don't feel able to post here really because *I've not told her H*. I get it, I should, I hear you all, *I am just not bloody brave enough.*


Ok, enough is enough.

Emily, what is the husband's email and Facebook data???

*I will do it for you!!!* 

Hang in there... I know it's tough. It s*cks, to be quite frank.


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## PhillyGuy13

happy as a clam said:


> Ok, enough is enough.
> 
> Emily, what is the husband's email and Facebook data???
> 
> *I will do it for you!!!*
> 
> Hang in there... I know it's tough. It s*cks, to be quite frank.


agree^^

It absolutely SUCKS your husband put you in this position Emily. You have nothing to apologize for. In all seriousness PM one of us, we will do it for you 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Emily J

I don't have his email, or his fb info. They are super buried. I can't even find her on there, she is only visible to those she wants to be visible to. Even if she likes a picture, only those who are her friends can see she's even liked it. I guess she likes to guard her privacy, which is pretty funny. 
So if I am ever brave enough to do anything, I have to do it face to face, which is an all round hideous thought. 
A var... I wondered about that. I hate all of this. I am sure I'd do it wrong and he'd find it, or it would make odd noises and he'd turn the car inside out looking for it.


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## PhillyGuy13

Sounds like this wasn't her first rodeo...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt

Em... he needs to know. Really.

Her husband and you need to get tested for STDs...


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## GusPolinski

Emily J said:


> I'm up and down secondtimearound, thanks for asking after me.
> I don't feel able to post here really because I've not told her H. I get it, I should, I hear you all, I am just not bloody brave enough. I could make excuses and say that it's this and that, and you'll all tell me to get over it and do it anyway. I am that girl in the movies running into the basement instead of out of the door and I can't do a thing about it.
> He has been trying to make amends. Being kind, attentive, etc. He gave me flowers, and suggests doing things together.
> This morning he said 'I know those words hurt you massively, but we still have so much that is just ours and not touched by this. I've never held her, or touched her, or even talked to her alone.'
> This evening my littlest child said 'Can (OW's son) come and play, mummy? Daddy is always bumping into his mum at school for chats, he could ask her?'
> So yeah. They've never talked to each other. Right. The morning school run takes him fifty minutes now. The school is ten minutes away. I know he parks up, takes the kids in, etc, but still, that is half an hour or so longer than needs be.
> I know what you're thinking, please don't say it. I'm just typing this here to get it out of my head.





karole said:


> Emily, get a VAR and put it in his car!


Sony ICDPX333.CE7 4GB PX Series MP3 Digital Voice IC Recorder: Amazon.co.uk: Office Products



Emily J said:


> I don't have his email, or his fb info. They are super buried. I can't even find her on there, she is only visible to those she wants to be visible to. Even if she likes a picture, only those who are her friends can see she's even liked it. I guess she likes to guard her privacy, which is pretty funny.
> So if I am ever brave enough to do anything, I have to do it face to face, which is an all round hideous thought.
> A var... I wondered about that. I hate all of this. I am sure I'd do it wrong and he'd find it, or it would make odd noises and he'd turn the car inside out looking for it.


Nope, no noises. Well... not if you take precautions, anyway. Read weightlifter's "Standard Evidence Post" thread for tips on VAR configuration (Sony VARs in particular).


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## alte Dame

You're acting like this is a slow-motion train wreck that you are helpless to stop. Not telling the BH; being aware of the 50-minute drop-offs and not doing anything about it; not doing anything of substance to enforce NC.

If you want a chance to truly snap your WH out of his infatuation, you need to act. Otherwise, you will be wringing your hands all the way to divorce court. In the meantime, you will be tortured by the knowledge that he is lusting after her, obsessed with his exciting AP. 

From your description, she is a predator and has no qualms about cheating with your WH. And he loves the attention and has already fallen for her. You are in the background in the script in his mind; she is what he is thinking about night and day. You can do something to change this, but you need to ACT.


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## Openminded

You're in false R. And that's obviously not a good place to be. You're hoping his infatuation with her will run its course. And it might. But it also might not. Then what?


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## Healer

This is brutal for you. I'm sorry you're going through this.

It sounds very much to me like your husband has no intention of killing this affair off - he's blowing smoke and trying to do damage control. He has no respect for you or your marriage OR your family (including kids). He's a cake eater of the worst kind.

I don't believe you'll be able to stop this, and even if you think you have, you'll never know for sure you have, or how far it's already gone.

Your husband is a selfish and cruel person, and he is treating you like garbage. In my opinion you should divorce him and let him have his love affair, which won't last. 

You deserve far, far better.

I'm sorry if that is hard for you to hear.

Best to you - take care of YOU first. YOU and your children are your priority. Not him. Not anymore.


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## Healer

Openminded said:


> You're in false R. And that's obviously not a good place to be. You're hoping his infatuation with her will run its course. And it might. But it also might not. Then what?


Truth. This is false R, and he doesn't even really want it deep down. This will lead to more hurt and suffering for the OP.

I was appalled at reading his response when she insisted he delete the conversations they had. Sickening.


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## happy as a clam

> It sounds very much to me like your husband has no intention of killing this affair off - he's blowing smoke and trying to do damage control. He has no respect for you or your marriage OR your family (including kids). He's a cake eater of the worst kind.


:iagree:


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## SecondTime'Round

You don't know anyone who could give you his email address? No school directory of any kind? He doesn't have a LinkedIn account? Have you even tried to just plain Google him to find out where he works, etc., and then try to get an email address? 

He's spending TWICE as long at school as he needs to. Is there a good reason why YOU can't do the school pickup/drop off? I know you work from home, but isn't it at all flexible??


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## Nucking Futs

Emily J said:


> I'm up and down secondtimearound, thanks for asking after me.
> I don't feel able to post here really because I've not told her H. I get it, I should, I hear you all, I am just not bloody brave enough. I could make excuses and say that it's this and that, and you'll all tell me to get over it and do it anyway. I am that girl in the movies running into the basement instead of out of the door and I can't do a thing about it.
> He has been trying to make amends. Being kind, attentive, etc. He gave me flowers, and suggests doing things together.
> This morning he said 'I know those words hurt you massively, but we still have so much that is just ours and not touched by this. I've never held her, or touched her, or even talked to her alone.'
> This evening my littlest child said 'Can (OW's son) come and play, mummy? Daddy is always bumping into his mum at school for chats, he could ask her?'
> So yeah. They've never talked to each other. Right. The morning school run takes him fifty minutes now. The school is ten minutes away. I know he parks up, takes the kids in, etc, but still, that is half an hour or so longer than needs be.
> I know what you're thinking, please don't say it. I'm just typing this here to get it out of my head.


Emily, if you don't keep posting here we don't know what we need to keep encouraging you about. And make no mistake about it, we're not picking on you because we're bullies, we're not trying to make you feel bad. We're trying to help you save your marriage, and right now we're seeing it swirling around the bowl heading for the drain.

Now brace yourself, because here comes some encouragement.

This woman is taking away your family. Your husband is gravitating away from you toward her, and you're letting it happen. You're letting her take your husband away out of fear. Not sure what you're afraid of, but I recognize that fear doesn't have to be rational to affect you. But your family needs you to be courageous now. Your children need you to be courageous. Go ahead and be afraid. Feel that fear, but do what you need to do anyway. Wear a long dress or skirt so he can't see your legs shaking while you're talking to him if necessary.

What happens if your husband ends up leaving you and she leaves her husband and the two of them end up together? Are your children going to call her mommy? Are you really going to sit passively by and allow her to destroy your family because you're too nervous to talk to a man? A man who most likely will be eternally grateful to you for that talk?

How are you going to be spending your time in a year when they're together and she's tucking your children in half the time?


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## MattMatt

If you have his name he can be tracked down.

PM me, if you want. I might have some ideas.


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## leon1

I dont know your set up but could you not do the school run or even go with him .You know hes taking alot longer than he should , why dont you ask him why , see what excuse he gives .


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## Emily J

I guess I haven't taken the school runs on because I am his lover, not his mother. I already feel that things only halted because I intervened - it wasn't a conscious choice for either of them. If I now start doing the school runs, I'm again the obstacle. Surely the real, honest choice has to be made by him, not me? Is that unrealistic? I don't know.


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## bfree

Emily J said:


> I guess I haven't taken the school runs on because I am his lover, not his mother. I already feel that things only halted because I intervened - it wasn't a conscious choice for either of them. If I now start doing the school runs, I'm again the obstacle. Surely the real, honest choice has to be made by him, not me? Is that unrealistic? I don't know.


Does a mother lioness wait for the snake to make a choice or does she defend her cubs? You are trusting these two fogged up adults to make the choice you want them to. Why should they? It has nothing to do with leaving them to make a choice does it Emily? You are just afraid to act. But your fear not only has consequences for you but for your children as well. Do you understand that your children are in danger? They are standing on the tracks, a train is bearing down on them and you are just going to stand there and watch? If you and your husband divorce because of his affair and your refusal to defend your family what hell are they going to go through? You have the power to end this, you have the ability to protect your children and you just stand there? That killer in the basement isn't just going to attack you, it's going to attack your children as well. Why don't you do something?


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## bfree

And just to add a quick follow up. You are asking a drug addict currently high on dopamine to make an honest choice? Haven't you read any other threads here in CWI? The cheater almost NEVER chooses to end the affair on their own because it feels to damned good. They are getting their fix every time they interact with their affair partner. You feel bad right now because of what is happening. If someone could give you a magic pill to make it all go away wouldn't you take it? Keep taking it? In almost all cases the cheater who ends up reconciling is grateful for whoever/whatever ended the affair because they weren't in their right mind and couldn't do it themselves. By standing around and doing nothing you are sending the message that you don't care about your marriage, your children, your husband and yourself. Would you want to stay married to someone who didn't care?


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## Nucking Futs

Emily J said:


> I guess I haven't taken the school runs on because *I am his lover*, not his mother. I already feel that things only halted because I intervened - it wasn't a conscious choice for either of them. If I now start doing the school runs, I'm again the obstacle. Surely the real, honest choice has to be made by him, not me? Is that unrealistic? I don't know.


One of them, anyway.

Emily, if you don't nut up and start fighting for your family you're going to lose it.


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## happy as a clam

bfree said:


> If someone could give you a *magic pill to make it all go away* wouldn't you take it?


Yep, and that magic pill to make it all go away is *EXPOSURE.*

Emily, not only are you afraid for some reason to contact the OW's husband, you also seem fearful of us! You don't want to keep posting here for fear that we, a bunch of internet strangers who you will never actually meet face to face, will judge you and lash out.

It's time to realize that some of this fear is a bit irrational and is paralyzing you.

I can assure you, we're only trying to help . Sometimes the truth can be a bit painful.


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## Laila8

Emily, I just wanted to say I am so sorry you are going through this. I want to clobber your husband, ugh. My heart breaks for you.


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## eric1

Emily - it is important that you find your courage that you know that you have deeo down! Challenge yourself to be the person you can be.

Print out the chats between your husband and his current girlfriend. Put them in an envelope. Go to her house during pickup when you know she isn't there and knock on the door. If he's not there it's OK - you've just proven to yourself that you are the best and can do anything! If he is there then just hand him the envelope wordlessly and motion for him to read it.


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## Louise7

Emily J said:


> I guess I haven't taken the school runs on because I am his lover, not his mother. I already feel that things only halted because I intervened - it wasn't a conscious choice for either of them. If I now start doing the school runs, I'm again the obstacle. Surely the real, honest choice has to be made by him, not me? Is that unrealistic? I don't know.


It's time to put on your big girl pants Emily. You don't know that it halted for a start. They could be taking a rain check until the dust settles. 

No, you hare the one who has to make choices, not them. Stand and fight or crawl away and let them carry on with it. If you want to fight for your marriage you only have to do one thing: print it all off, hand it to the poor idiot who married the OW. He may be a stranger but he is your best friend right now.


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## eric1

Emily, your husband is about to start another week meeting up with his girlfriend. It's time to take action


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## karole

Emily, hope you are doing okay..............


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## eric1

Emily please don't be afraid to post. We understand that what you should do and are able to do can be different things. The advice here is great but the support is even better. Use us!


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## staystrong

Emily, your house is on fire. Hiding in the basement is not the answer. The front door is the fire escape. Your kids need you to lead your family the way out. Their dad is tripping over cans of flammable liquids and acting like an idiot teenager who has been sniffing glue. 

You need to take Ms. Handjob out of the picture for your family to heal. Bury this ***** in the sand. Her husband deserves to know the truth - you've got to do this. Otherwise, Ms. Handjob will think you are too scared to take real action and she may pursue your H. It could come in the simple form of "We've got to talk, I just need to know what's going on over there. Is she going to tell my H?" and your dumbass husband is still thinking it's okay to speak with her so that he can smooth over everything with everybody. And because he wants to see her again. He's got to get to the point where he doesn't want to see her and any interaction with him makes him feel ashamed and disgusted with himself. He NEEDS your help in this manner. Some part of him may need you to kick him into gear so that he can see the light again, and then he can address his wandering eye and any issues in your marriage. He has to be taught a lesson that this will never be tolerated again or it will lead to divorce. You have to be serious on top of angry, or he may grow to resent you.


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## Emily J

I'm here, and I'm reading. I haven't moved forward yet, as you can probably guess from my lack of posts. Its been a difficult week of me needing to go to the school every day with him for one reason or another, and seeing her there has killed me. I saw he husband yesterday too, so now I know who he is. He even said hello as we walked by them. Excruciating.
I know this cannot go on, and I am going to take some action. My H is distant, and pensive, and spends time out on the decking sitting and staring into nothing when he thinks I'm not watching him. This is exhausting, isn't it. Did I do the wrong thing in the first place by even letting him know that I knew? Did I just push it all underground and make it even more thrilling? I thought at the time that I had to intervene because it hadn't at that point become physical, but was it always going to anyway? I'm tired of it all going round and round in my head, it's like being in a washing machine.


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## EleGirl

{{{{hugs}}}}

It sucks. I hurts. I know.

It sounds like you are stuck in a whirlwind of indecision.. you cannot do anything because you cannot stop the roar in your head.

It would really help you to do something.... like print out the texts and give them to her husband. Something doing something is more important than figuring out the exact, right, prefect thing.

By doing something you will change the flow of events. Most likely you will have her husband watching over her. She will be so busy tying to save her marriage most likely that she will drop this thing with your husband if it's still going on.


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## EleGirl

Emily J said:


> I don't have his email, or his fb info. They are super buried. I can't even find her on there, she is only visible to those she wants to be visible to. Even if she likes a picture, only those who are her friends can see she's even liked it. I guess she likes to guard her privacy, which is pretty funny.
> So if I am ever brave enough to do anything, I have to do it face to face, which is an all round hideous thought.


Do you know what her vehicle looks like? Or her husband's? Can you get a license plate number?

Do you have their names? 

There are folks here who could get their address and other info based on that. I've done it for people on here before. PM me. I'll look it up.

I'm serious.



Emily J said:


> A var... I wondered about that. I hate all of this. I am sure I'd do it wrong and he'd find it, or it would make odd noises and he'd turn the car inside out looking for it.


The trick with the VAR is to use adhesive back Velcro.. the type that is about a 1-2 inch wide strip. Adhere it to a hidden surface of this vehicle... like up under the front seat. That way it cannot slip out when the car is moving and it's not visible if a person just looks under the front seat.


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## Emily J

Thanks xx 
Yeah, I have their full details now. I know where they live, what they drive, and as of yesterday I know who he is. So I have the necessary info, just not yet the last push over the edge I suppose. And I know that everyone will be thinking why wait for it to get worse, and you're right. Thanks for the info re the var. x


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## EleGirl

Emily J said:


> Thanks xx
> Yeah, I have their full details now. I know where they live, what they drive, and as of yesterday I know who he is. So I have the necessary info, just not yet the last push over the edge I suppose. And I know that everyone will be thinking why wait for it to get worse, and you're right. Thanks for the info re the var. x


If you are not ready yet, then do get the VAR. If you an afford 2, get 2. One to have in the vehicle and one to have with you so you can listen to it. That way you can swap it them out.

If you can get something on the VAR, it might be very helpful when you let her husband know. You have some messages that are a few weeks old now. So they could say that well it was just chit chat but they stopped. So if you get more current recordings... you and put that to rest.

Remember that cheaters lie. They seldom admit to anything more than the BS has solid evidence for. So the more evidence you have, the more you can bury her under the weight of it. And the more your husband will know that you are not a woman to trifle with. You will do what you need to do to protect yourself and your children.

If do the VAR, do not say a word to him if you get something on until you have a plan. Come here and talk it out and make a plan.

You have already experienced what happens when you act in haste.


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## EleGirl

Another thought on the VAR...

So that you get to feel more secure about it. Put it in your own car first. Under the front seat with the Velcro. Drive around and call friends/family while you are driving. (I assume you have something like a blue tooth or other hands free way to talk while you drive. )

This is give you a chance to test it out. Listen to see if it makes any noises. Listen to see how clearly it records the conversations. 

If there is a little light that goes on, get some electrical tape and cover it. Get the black kind of electrical tape. No light gets through that stuff.


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## bfree

Emily, listen to Elegirl. She's right. Your husband needs to know you are not a woman to be trifled with. Men want to respect the women they are with. I love my wife with all my heart in great part because I know she will not put up with any baloney, mine or anyone else's. Knowing that is comforting to me because if I ever get into a bad situation I know she'll have my back. She'll defend me and our children just like that mother lioness I spoke of. Show your husband that you have his back. Show this hussy that you won't take any of her baloney. Show the world that you will stand up for your children and your family.


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## SecondTime'Round

Emily J said:


> I'm here, and I'm reading. I haven't moved forward yet, as you can probably guess from my lack of posts. Its been a difficult week of me needing to go to the school every day with him for one reason or another, and seeing her there has killed me. I saw he husband yesterday too, so now I know who he is. He even said hello as we walked by them. Excruciating.
> I know this cannot go on, and I am going to take some action. My H is distant, and pensive, and spends time out on the decking sitting and staring into nothing when he thinks I'm not watching him. This is exhausting, isn't it. *Did I do the wrong thing in the first place by even letting him know that I knew? Did I just push it all underground and make it even more thrilling? I thought at the time that I had to intervene because it hadn't at that point become physical, but was it always going to anyway?* I'm tired of it all going round and round in my head, it's like being in a washing machine.


Emily, you absolutely did the right thing in halting it when you did, since you have an interest in trying to save your marriage. Don't question yourself about that. 

I'm on the fence with you getting a VAR because it doesn't sound to me like you'd be able to emotionally handle hearing what you might hear on it, and you already have enough proof to go to the OW's husband with what you have, so I think you should just stick to working up the courage to do that. This is just my opinion, though. You don't even have to talk to the guy. Just hand him an envelope and give him a sympathetic look.


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## drifting on

Emily J

I know firsthand how difficult it was to contact the OMW. I blew up her world and although I was gentle I felt terrible. Why? I just caused her the same pain, turmoil, sleepless nights, anguish, and devastation. It's not something I would like to do on a daily basis. But the picture is bigger then that, the consequences to valuable, the destruction to great then to do nothing. Doing nothing but trying to survive is the worst that you can be doing. I became very angry at your comment of your husband sitting on the deck looking into nothing, that he is distant. I consider that a huge red flag so big it is slapping you in the face.

In my opinion your husband is thinking about what he has missed out on, his adrenaline rush killed off by you. Being distant is him always thinking of her. He had saved their conversations, don't believe he wasn't looking at them to feel good. Your husband is in dire need of the slap of exposure to his face. I would contact him now but that is my choice, you make your own choices when you want. So if you want a gentle nudge to expose I can give you one. Think of those transcripts, that he sat in the same room as you contacting her, he looks at you imagining he is with her, he set up the time to meet with her, that he was so lovey with her, that he is now mad that you stopped his fun, he sits outside dreaming of her, he still talks to her, he put her BEFORE you, he still has her BEFORE you, he is distant with you as he tried to think how he can salvage what he had with her, that he DISRESPECTS you. 

I apologize if this seems harsh, I don't mean to be, but you were betrayed and you have options on how you want to respond.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

The #1 way to get your husband invested in YOU again is to scare the pants off of him about losing you. Be mad - quiet, slow burn anger and indignation. Let him SEE you considering dumping his sorry ass, even if you don't really want to. 

He needs to see YOU valuing yourself in order for HIM to value you.

Tell her H what's going on so he can keep an eye on his WS. Inform your H what he has to do to GET to keep you. He's feeling sorry for himself right now that you stole his candy away. Fix that TODAY. Let him instead start worrying about losing YOU.


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## karole

Emily, if it was the other way around and OW's husband had found out, would you have wanted him to tell you or to keep you completely in the dark? To be honest, her husband has probably been suspecting that something is wrong in his marriage, but he doesn't know what. That gut we all have is pretty good in letting us know when things aren't quite right - sometimes we simply choose to ignore it. 

I sincerely hope things work out for you and I hope you continue to post here. Your decisions are your decisions, so do what you feel in _your_ gut is the right thing to do.


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## staystrong

Emily, I have high hopes for you and your marriage. I don't know why, I just do. I think your husband will start to wake up, but he needs prompting. A marriage and an intact family is a terrible thing to throw away without giving it your all. If that's what you want. If things start to go south, you may find yourself being swallowed by the abyss. The abyss is bad, you don't want to be in there. Please start exposing, especially to BH. Let OW deal with her husband, and that may spur her to start thinking about him, not your husband. You may have time to heal your marriage, if you want to, but not if it's still hemorrhaging.


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## eric1

Emily

I'll second what the others are saying. People calling to have you tell your husband's girlfriend's husband aren't doing so because it sounds good. You have a maelstrom of self-doubt, conflicting emotions, sadness that is just too much for anyone to handle. We are merely trying to give you the next item on the list to process, and after that is done there will be another one.

In my opinion, the behaviors still quite don't all snap together how they should. There is something going on somewhere and it's just not....honest. If your husband is quiet on the back porch just thinking it's because he is processing something. Maybe it's as simple as this was a wake up call and he's evaluating life different. You're his wife and assuming for a minute that processing isn't thinking about his gf, the only way that you can help him is to re-establish your marriage. If you want to do this, then ending the affair is the only way to get to the next step (unless of course he's not willing to end the affair)


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## SecondTime'Round

Emily,

Are you afraid that if you expose to OW's husband that your husband will be so angry at you he will want to divorce?


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## Emily J

Thanks all. x

I guess that is part of it. Telling her husband will almost certainly have negative repercussions on my household, and possibly on my kids if he comes to the school. If I am to be completely honest, I fear it will push them closer together, into a them and us situation. I know that all of the experiences here show that not to be true though. 
We talk quite a lot, and he is always quick to say that he wants to make things better. He said he's scared he's broken us and can't believe how much he has put at risk. I... I want to believe him, you know? I love the bones of the man. He said yesterday that we love each other on a deep level, but we've lost the fun, sexy side of our relationship and he'd love to get it back again. He's right. We have, and I'd love that too, but I can't see a way out of the hole of feeling angry and suspicious and wondering if anything is still happening. Not to mention that it's left me feeling so bloody wounded on a personal level as a woman. 
I hate that his head was full of someone else, that he lay beside me wanting her. I hate that I think he doesn't find me attractive anymore because she is so wildly different to me, it's made me feel dowdy and second rate. It's robbed me of my joy, you know? I can't relax or laugh or be happy, there is just this jumbled up frustration, anger and sadness.


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## SecondTime'Round

Emily J said:


> Thanks all. x
> 
> I guess that is part of it. Telling her husband will almost certainly have negative repercussions on my household, and possibly on my kids if he comes to the school. If I am to be completely honest, I fear it will push them closer together, into a them and us situation. I know that all of the experiences here show that not to be true though.
> We talk quite a lot, and he is always quick to say that he wants to make things better. He said he's scared he's broken us and can't believe how much he has put at risk. I... I want to believe him, you know? I love the bones of the man. He said yesterday that we love each other on a deep level, but we've lost the fun, sexy side of our relationship and he'd love to get it back again. He's right. We have, and I'd love that too, but I can't see a way out of the hole of feeling angry and suspicious and wondering if anything is still happening. Not to mention that it's left me feeling so bloody wounded on a personal level as a woman.
> I hate that his head was full of someone else, that he lay beside me wanting her. I hate that I think he doesn't find me attractive anymore because she is so wildly different to me, it's made me feel dowdy and second rate. It's robbed me of my joy, you know? I can't relax or laugh or be happy, there is just this jumbled up frustration, anger and sadness.
> I bought a var today. In the absence of telling her husband straight away, I guess that has to be next on my list.


All very understandable, Emily. Big hugs to you! <3


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## staystrong

Emily

I'm glad the other poster asked that question. 

The reason most of us do not tell the AP's spouse is because we are AFRAID on some level of pushing the two of them together. It's a logical fear - you're trying to not add more variables, and as long as he in the house you probably feel as though you have a chance to work things out by talking, etc. Because this is YOUR husband and so far this is where he comes home every night. You have the history, dreams, children together .. it's still a marriage but it is cracking. You are still two bonded people who know each other very well, or so you thought up until now. He has betrayed you and HE has to make up for that as best as he can. There's still a lot you may not know, and new revelations may change your mind about how much you want to salvage all of this. You love him to his bones, but you hate what he's done. That's good, that's the right approach for R. The question is how much has he changed, what is he withholding to protect you/her/himself, and can you tolerate not knowing all of the facts. He's going to have to come cleaner over time. 

Meanwhile, her H is still in the dark and that means she is free to maneuver to reach out to your H again. The only way to keep her off balance is to inform her H. Plus, he deserves to know. Trust us when we say you can't believe anything your husband really tells you right now. You can't rely on him to do to the right thing. I think if you are telling yourself you'll be one of the couples which makes it without informing the betrayed husband, you are setting yourself up for disaster. It just doesn't work like that :-(

It's good you are having these heart to hearts but it sounds like he is manipulating the situation. What did he do to address the lack of romance? Seriously, WTF did he do to remedy that? Please realize that almost all couples with young kids experience a slide down in romance because you've advanced to the stage where it's not just about the couple's fun anymore. He's basically expressing the difference between mature love and romantic love.. with the implication that romantic love was somehow "missing". I tend to doubt that. He's re-experiencing the initial 'in love' feelings with the school mom and he could probably be experiencing that with any number of people if he pursued more intimacy with someone not his wife. This is not about you or a lack in the relationship, it's about the fact that he's not acting like a husband or a father but rather a flirty guy who is enjoying the ego strokes and butterflies of a new 'love' interest. And clearly this is not about real love. He was thinking about HIMSELF above everyone else. Don't let him identify 'lack of romance' as the 'problem' which caused him to seek affection elsewhere. The real issue should be what in god's name allows him to risk the health and happiness of his wife and family? Please keep that in the back of your mind always. You were in the same marriage, yet you did not step out on him. He needs to be a lot more contrite and remorseful and acknowledge your pain caused by HIS affair before you can jump into fixing the issues of the marriage. Otherwise he will try to rugsweep and all is for naught.


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## Louise7

Staystrong is right: you are being manipulated. He is sitting around on the deck like a love sick puppy because of a problem he caused. Show him the error of his ways. Put the VAR in the car, sit back and wait.


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## turnera

And tell her H so he can help make sure they don't contact.


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## Chas

Posted by Emily


> He's right. We have, and I'd love that too, but I can't see a way out of the hole of feeling angry and suspicious and wondering if anything is still happening. Not to mention that it's left me feeling so bloody wounded on a personal level as a woman.
> I hate that his head was full of someone else, that he lay beside me wanting her. I hate that I think he doesn't find me attractive anymore because she is so wildly different to me, it's made me feel dowdy and second rate. It's robbed me of my joy, you know? I can't relax or laugh or be happy, there is just this jumbled up frustration, anger and sadness.


Emily
You and your husband seem to be communicating well but I can't help but wonder if the above was only said to us and not him. Does he know you have these feelings? if not, I can't help but think they're interfering with your reconciliation. He needs to help you address them.

As to contacting her husband, if your husband is still pining for the OW then he is in a false reconciliation. By informing the OW's husband, he will be joining you in the fight to end the affair so you wont be alone anymore. The experiences here on CWI have shown that this is a very effective way to end the affair by exerting pressure on both sides of it. If, by chance, it pushes them closer together then you really had no chance at reconciliation and are just delaying the inevitable.


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## carmen ohio

Dear Emily J,

I've been following your thread but haven't commented until now because I had nothing to add to what others were telling you. However, your last post kind of ticked me off, not at you but at your WH. Here's why:



Emily J said:


> Thanks all. x
> 
> I guess that is part of it. Telling her husband will almost certainly have negative repercussions on my household, and possibly on my kids if he comes to the school. If I am to be completely honest, I fear it will push them closer together, into a them and us situation. I know that all of the experiences here show that not to be true though.
> We talk quite a lot, and *he is always quick to say that he wants to make things better. [He's quick to say that he wants to make things better, but he's slow to do anything about it. When dealing with an unfaithful spouse, actions, not words are what matter and what give the best indication of how committed he or she is to reconciling. So far, your WH is coming up short.]* *He said he's scared he's broken us and can't believe how much he has put at risk. [This is one of the most common excuses that WSs use to justify not doing what is necessary to mend the relationship: "I've hurt you too much; you'll never be able to forgive me." "I've ruined everything; our marriage will never be the same." What it really means is, "I don't care enough about you or our marriage to take a chance that, despite my efforts, things may not work out. So, instead, I'll do as little as possible so that, if things don't work out, I won't have wasted a lot of time and energy."]* I... I want to believe him, you know? I love the bones of the man. *He said yesterday that we love each other on a deep level, but we've lost the fun, sexy side of our relationship and he'd love to get it back again. He's right. We have, and I'd love that too, but I can't see a way out of the hole of feeling angry and suspicious and wondering if anything is still happening. Not to mention that it's left me feeling so bloody wounded on a personal level as a woman. [This is the part that really set me off. Don't you see what he's doing? He's turning things around to make it seem that it's your fault your marriage is in the crapper. He's even gotten you thinking this ("I can't see a way out of the hole of feeling angry and suspicious ..."). The reason "the fun, sexy side" of your marriage has been lost is because he cheated on you! The person responsible for making it up to you so that you -- eventually -- feel less angry and less suspicious is him! Don't let him steam roll you like this!]* *I hate that his head was full of someone else, that he lay beside me wanting her. I hate that I think he doesn't find me attractive anymore because she is so wildly different to me, it's made me feel dowdy and second rate. It's robbed me of my joy, you know? I can't relax or laugh or be happy, there is just this jumbled up frustration, anger and sadness. [Of course you hate these things, anybody would. But it's his job, not yours, to start you on the path to healing by proving to you -- every hour of every day -- that he is 100% committed to you and his marriage. I don't see him doing that. Rather, I see him making excuses for his lack of action while he pines for the OW.]*
> I bought a var today. In the absence of telling her husband straight away, I guess that has to be next on my list.


OK, that's why your post ticked me off and what I think about your WH. What's to be done about it? Well, turnera has already told you:



turnera said:


> The #1 way to get your husband invested in YOU again is to scare the pants off of him about losing you. Be mad - quiet, slow burn anger and indignation. Let him SEE you considering dumping his sorry ass, even if you don't really want to.
> 
> He needs to see YOU valuing yourself in order for HIM to value you.
> 
> Tell her H what's going on so he can keep an eye on his WS. Inform your H what he has to do to GET to keep you. He's feeling sorry for himself right now that you stole his candy away. Fix that TODAY. Let him instead start worrying about losing YOU.


turnera's right. It's time you put your WH on notice that he either start acting like a man who loves you and wants to spend the rest of his life with you or you will divorce his (quoting turnera) _"sorry ass"_ and find a man who does.

Wishing you the best.


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## feeling lost

I can only say that you should discuss this with him - don't be too aggressive. Equally be firm, he has hurt you and is doing wrong. He must understand this.

I am not sure if you should approach the other husband. Sometimes these things are best left unsaid. However, your husband has to break off all contact with the other woman.

Ask me, I have been through it. Still hurts fifteen years later. It does not have to end you marriage, but your marriage will never be the same again.


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## EleGirl

Emily J said:


> Thanks all. x
> 
> I guess that is part of it. Telling her husband will almost certainly have negative repercussions on my household, and possibly on my kids if he comes to the school. If I am to be completely honest, I fear it will push them closer together, into a them and us situation. I know that all of the experiences here show that not to be true though.
> 
> We talk quite a lot, and he is always quick to say that he wants to make things better. He said he's scared he's broken us and can't believe how much he has put at risk. I... I want to believe him, you know? I love the bones of the man. He said yesterday that we love each other on a deep level, but we've lost the fun, sexy side of our relationship and he'd love to get it back again.
> 
> He's right. We have, and I'd love that too, but I can't see a way out of the hole of feeling angry and suspicious and wondering if anything is still happening. Not to mention that it's left me feeling so bloody wounded on a personal level as a woman.
> 
> *I hate that his head was full of someone else, that he lay beside me wanting her. I hate that I think he doesn't find me attractive anymore because she is so wildly different to me, it's made me feel dowdy and second rate. It's robbed me of my joy, you know? I can't relax or laugh or be happy, there is just this jumbled up frustration, anger and sadness. *
> 
> I bought a var today. In the absence of telling her husband straight away, I guess that has to be next on my list.


Have you told him the underlined part?


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## SecondTime'Round

How are you, Emily? I hope you had a nice Mother's Day (if you have that in the UK??) <3


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## Emily J

Hey guys, am still here and reading most days. 
I'm okay, good days and bad days, you know how it is. He's trying hard I think, the school run is faster these days and he doesn't go anywhere or stay out longer than necessary.
He's saying the right things, asking how I'm feeling... truth is I don't really know how I'm feeling. Sometimes I feel there's hope, other days I just feel so, I don't know, so _changed_, you know?
My opinion of him has changed too, and I don't know if I love him a little bit less as a result. What used to feel whole and complete now feels less so, like there's a chunk missing. It's not right, and I don't know as it ever will be.
It's tiring, all of this , isn't it? Day in, day out. I had a week of feeling brighter, and then the last few days I've been as low as I've ever been.
I'm thinking of going away for a few days on my own next week, try to get some clear space in my head and think properly. Of course there is a part of me screaming 'don't leave him on his own to do as he pleases,' but then he will do as he pleases whatever I do, ultimately. 
Is going away a bad idea, do you think? I just want some peace and quiet. Being here I watch him all of the time. Not being able to see him might actually help.


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## Roselyn

You need to see a psychologist to get your mind in the right direction. This situation with your husband is eating you from the inside. This is causing you a great deal of anxiety.


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## turnera

I just went away for 3 days and it made a world of difference, as you say, just being away from the drama. Please do go away for a few days.


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## eric1

Emily J said:


> Hey guys, am still here and reading most days.
> I'm okay, good days and bad days, you know how it is. He's trying hard I think, the school run is faster these days and he doesn't go anywhere or stay out longer than necessary.
> He's saying the right things, asking how I'm feeling... truth is I don't really know how I'm feeling. Sometimes I feel there's hope, other days I just feel so, I don't know, so _changed_, you know?
> My opinion of him has changed too, and I don't know if I love him a little bit less as a result. What used to feel whole and complete now feels less so, like there's a chunk missing. It's not right, and I don't know as it ever will be.
> It's tiring, all of this , isn't it? Day in, day out. I had a week of feeling brighter, and then the last few days I've been as low as I've ever been.
> I'm thinking of going away for a few days on my own next week, try to get some clear space in my head and think properly. Of course there is a part of me screaming 'don't leave him on his own to do as he pleases,' but then he will do as he pleases whatever I do, ultimately.
> Is going away a bad idea, do you think? I just want some peace and quiet. Being here I watch him all of the time. Not being able to see him might actually help.



the reason you are so whacked is that your body and brain are telling you to assimilate to the situation within context of the old reltionship. The reality is that old relationship does not exist anymore. Your husband threw that away. 

You'll start to heal when you understand that you do not need him for happiness. This is tough love, but you are codependent. This needs to end, and it will hurt you. But you'll emerge stronger. 

Once you emerge, you'll be able to decide if it's worth rebuilding with someone that you are not sure that you'll ever trust again or if it's better to start fresh. It is easier for you to "emerge" from this cocoon of doubt and co-dependence if he is not there, which is why it's good to set the flame to his love affair (you can only assume it is still active) by approaching his lover's spouse and expose. Expose expose expose.  It is counterintuitive and tough, but it's really the first step. You cannot go on living in fear my friend.


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## SecondTime'Round

How are you doing, @Emily J?


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## bandit.45

Emily J said:


> We talk quite a lot, and he is always quick to say that he wants to make things better. He said he's scared he's broken us and can't believe how much he has put at risk. I... I want to believe him, you know? I love the bones of the man. He said yesterday that we love each other on a deep level, but we've lost the fun, sexy side of our relationship and he'd love to get it back again. He's right. We have, and I'd love that too, but I can't see a way out of the hole of feeling angry and suspicious and wondering if anything is still happening. Not to mention that it's left me feeling so bloody wounded on a personal level as a woman.
> 
> I hate that his head was full of someone else, that he lay beside me wanting her. I hate that I think he doesn't find me attractive anymore because she is so wildly different to me, it's made me feel dowdy and second rate. It's robbed me of my joy, you know? I can't relax or laugh or be happy, there is just this jumbled up frustration, anger and sadness.


For what it is worth, remember that we guys are very simple creatures, and even though he enjoyed her physically for a time, his brain has pretty much washed itself of her memory. 

His lust for her was temporary and fleeting. Like all men, your husband is a sex predator...a hunter. He did not enjoy sex with her more than he does with you...it was the thrill of the conquest that he enjoyed. He may have bonded with her a little bit on an emotional level, but that was separate from the sex. Men generally separate sex from emotions. 

You should not feel that he saw her as more desirable than you, because she wasn't. She fed his ego and he just lapped it up, but there is no reason why he cannot get that desire to pursue you back. Nor is it impossible for you to get your desire to want to be pursued by him back...you both just have to want it.


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## Emily J

Hey everyone,
I've been meaning to come by and post an update for a while, I often read but haven't posted. 
So...yeah. We're five months down the line from D-day and I'm doing okay. We are still together, and sometimes we're happy. As you know, I didn't tell the OW's husband. I still don't know if I regret that. I have days when I BURN to make her life 
as miserable as she has made mine. I know, I know. You don't tell the other woman's husband to make her miserable, you do it because he deserves to know. In this particular case, I've become aware that her husband has previously been adulterous also, so rightly or wrongly I don't feel any particular guilt about not telling him. Did I make the wrong choice about not telling him? I honestly don't know.
We've come quite a way since it all happened. He's tried to make amends. I've been away for a few days on my own. He's been away for a few days. He tells me he loves me often. I find it harder to say it back - not because I don't love him, but because saying it is just really hard these days.
Has our relationship changed? God, yes. For the better? Not yet. To be begin with in the days after d-day, maybe it did, in a way. We communicated on a level we haven't in years. We cried, we talked, we made love. Since then... it's all kind of slid to a place that's left is worse off than it was before it happened. 
The wounds are always just below the surface. We can't argue about anything without it becoming about what happened. We holidayed recently and it was 70% good and 30% awful. 
I still think about what happened every day, and the truth is that it's damaged us in a way I don't know if we can properly recover from. 
You know what I resent the most? The damage it's done to me mentally. I'm a positive person. I work hard, I love my family, I try to be a good wife, mother, daughter, sister and friend. But now I have this part of me that is hard, and dark, more full of anger and hate. Towards her, and towards my husband. It makes me sad to acknowledge that side of me.
Our marriage has taken such a big hit. The biggest thing I've lost is my sense of belonging, my sense of permanence. I always thought we'd be married forever, that we'd grow old together, all that stuff. Nowadays, I just don't know. I don't feel sure we will be married in ten years, five years, or even two years. 
So there you have it. It's a work in progress.
I do though want to say a heartfelt thank you to everyone here. You all held my hand and talked me through it. If I hadn't found TAM I probably wouldn't have confronted him when I did, I'd have left it to see what happened and most likely it would have been much worse. Not just that though. Posting here kept me sane, and reading your responses kept me going. I know I didn't always take advice and I probably should have, but I want to say a huge thank you for being kind and lovely to me when I had no one else to talk to about everything that was happening in my life. xx


----------



## GusPolinski

Emily J said:


> Hey everyone,
> I've been meaning to come by and post an update for a while, I often read but haven't posted.
> So...yeah. We're five months down the line from D-day and I'm doing okay. We are still together, and sometimes we're happy. As you know, I didn't tell the OW's husband. I still don't know if I regret that. I have days when I BURN to make her life
> as miserable as she has made mine. I know, I know. You don't tell the other woman's husband to make her miserable, you do it because he deserves to know. *In this particular case, I've become aware that her husband has previously been adulterous also, so rightly or wrongly I don't feel any particular guilt about not telling him.* Did I make the wrong choice about not telling him? I honestly don't know.
> We've come quite a way since it all happened. He's tried to make amends. I've been away for a few days on my own. He's been away for a few days. He tells me he loves me often. I find it harder to say it back - not because I don't love him, but because saying it is just really hard these days.
> Has our relationship changed? God, yes. For the better? Not yet. To be begin with in the days after d-day, maybe it did, in a way. We communicated on a level we haven't in years. We cried, we talked, we made love. Since then... it's all kind of slid to a place that's left is worse off than it was before it happened.
> The wounds are always just below the surface. We can't argue about anything without it becoming about what happened. We holidayed recently and it was 70% good and 30% awful.
> I still think about what happened every day, and the truth is that it's damaged us in a way I don't know if we can properly recover from.
> You know what I resent the most? The damage it's done to me mentally. I'm a positive person. I work hard, I love my family, I try to be a good wife, daughter, sister and friend. But now I have this part of me that is hard, and dark, more full of anger and hate. Towards her, and towards my husband. It makes me sad to acknowledge that side of me.
> Our marriage has taken such a big hit. The biggest thing I've lost is my sense of belonging, my sense of permanence. I always thought we'd be married forever, that we'd grow old together, all that stuff. Nowadays, I just don't know. I don't feel sure we will be married in ten years, five years, or even two years.
> So there you have it. It's a work in progress.
> I do though want to say a heartfelt thank you to everyone here. You all held my hand and talked me through it. If I hadn't found TAM I probably wouldn't have confronted him when I did, I'd have left it to see what happened and most likely it would have been much worse. Not just that though. Posting here kept me sane, and reading your responses kept me going. I know I didn't always take advice and I probably should have, but I want to say a huge thank you for being kind and lovely to me when I had no one else to talk to about everything that was happening in my life. xx


Just curious.... who was it that told you about OWH's previous adulterous behavior?


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## Emily J

She told my husband in her messages to him.


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## Roselyn

Emily, see a marriage counselor. This might help you with the healing process.


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## GusPolinski

Emily J said:


> She told my husband in her messages to him.


And was that before or after D-Day?

Either way, you see the folly in taking that as Gospel... right?


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## SecondTime'Round

I was just thinking about you and missing you this afternoon! So glad you posted an update .

Emily, the reason for telling the OW's husband is not that he has a right to not, but that it makes it less likely that your husband and the OW will continue their affair. I hope that isn't happening. Doesn't really sound like it is. ?? (And, who knows, in your case, maybe it would have pushed them to divorce since he already had an affair and it would make her more accessible to your husband). 

Is he still planning on doing the school drop off/ pick up when school starts again? (Has school started where you live?)

Thanks for checking in .


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## alte Dame

It's so hard to mend a broken heart, especially when you are living intimately with the one who has broken it.

If you are like me, you may well look back at this time and see that the changes it forced upon you actually made you a better person in your own mind. I know you don't like some of who you are now, but that will change. The dark will evolve into knowledge and experience, and even a deeper kindness and wisdom, I am betting.

This is not to say that it doesn't svck as you are going through it. I know that. His cheating has reworked your sense of comfort and specialness. I believe though that both of you will eventually come to see the OW as what we over here call a 'skank.' You will soon enough (if you don't already) feel special again in this respect.

FWIW, I think it was very important that you blocked this from going physical. I also think that her BH would like to know, although, given her type, he probably expects it of her to some degree and thus already kind of knows.

You may want to start a thread in the Reconciliation forum here. Lots of people have the same feelings that you are expressing. Some R attempts go the distance and some end in divorce. You probably need a lot more time to see where yours is going.

Good luck, Emily. Thx for the update.


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## turnera

Why are you still together?


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## aine

I just hope your husband has discovered what he almost lost


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## MattMatt

Thanks for the update.

I hope that things will continue to become better for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## eric1

Not telling your husbands girlfriend's husband WILL come back to burn you. If he was adulterous or not isn't material to your ethical and strategic imperitive to tell him


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## poida

God I f*cking hate cheaters......... 

Sorry you are here.

Please be sure to take advice here seriously and act quickly and aggressively.

Accept that the responsibility for your happiness lies completely with you. 

The more you look after your needs and ensure that you are respected, the better off you will be (no matter what the outcome).

Personally, after what I have been through, I would never stay with a cheater. Their personality is what causes them to cheat and that never going to change. People are who they are.


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