# Given up hope of a normal sex life



## Hurra (Sep 13, 2009)

After years of a messed up sex life I've given up hope of having a normal one.

Every day I anticipate sex once we got to bed, especially when she would hint at it or like it when I suggest. But even if she hint at it, it wouldn't happen. She would have some reason like a headache or dinner didn't sit well or some other reason. She may suggest sex for later but within the hour she is complaining of some problem she is having. Granted they may be legit but I keep a daily record of what is going on and I'm not exaggerating. 

I don't initiate because I've been rejected far more than I've been successful. My wife wants me to initiate but I tell her I'm not going to when when you're complaining of some problem. Her response was she wants me to anyway to make her feel good. And the result would be I would feel like a loser.

She doesn't mind me doing a specific routine of foreplay on her but she never does it for me. I've asked and she has said she doesn't want to. But she often wants me to do it on her. We do it in the dark under the covers, same position. I can't remember when I saw her naked last. She's self conscious when there is no reason for her to be. It wasn't like this before marriage.

I know I've ranted here before but the big difference this time is I just go about my business at home and when she wants attention, I give her the minimum amount possible, not because I want to be mean but that is all I feel like giving.

Anyway, I know any day now something is going to give and I don't know how I'm going to handle it. She'll jump to the conclusion we are heading for divorce and so on and will put up a wall and not speak to me etc etc. That is why I've avoided any serious talk thus far.

Oh the joys of marriage. :banghead:


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Isn't passive aggressive narcissism a wonder to behold?


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Have you asked her why she doesn`t want sex with you?


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## DanF (Sep 27, 2010)

Dude, you really need to look up MMSL...

You make her feel empowered, she makes you feel like crap, it pleases her... need I go on?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

I can relate; your story sounds very familiar. My wife would get me thinking she was feeling frisky, then I'd get the "Tomorrow, ok?". But tomorrow rarely came. And neither did I.

My end result was two exit affairs and a STBXW (separated for a year now). If it comes down to it, don't have the affairs but leave with your integrity. Not saying that you're the kind that would do that, but there's my advice anyway.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I just want to slap so many of these women. I mean, maybe their side of the story would enlighten as to WHY they are this way, but if this is how it truly is, then she needs a betchslap.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

I'd be really curious to hear my stbxw's side of the story, because for the life of me, I can't figure it out. And I really don't want to make the same mistakes next time around. I did ask for MC at the end, and she gave me nothing to work on, which was pretty disappointing.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

IMO this type behavior is the ultimate example of self esteem parasitism. It consistently transfers self esteem directly fro
The LD partner to the HD partner. 

This is also a case of being a weak LD partner. It isn't that hard to say:
Our sex life is already frustrating to me regarding frequency. It is flat out cruel to invite me to flirt or to tease me so you can get the rush of feeling desired and then to reject me when I am turned on. 

And they either agree to stop or you ignore that type behavior unless it is happening as you get in bed.

I think some of this is well meaning but self destructive LD behavior. The last thing I would ever tell a sexually refusing partner is how pretty or hot they are. And if asked "how does this dress look"? I would just shrug and say "I don't really know much about womens clothing". 

Bolstering your partner when they are consistently rejecting you is very counter productive.


QUOTE=PBear;604637]I'd be really curious to hear my stbxw's side of the story, because for the life of me, I can't figure it out. And I really don't want to make the same mistakes next time around. I did ask for MC at the end, and she gave me nothing to work on, which was pretty disappointing.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jeff74 (Feb 11, 2012)

You are not alone...far from it!

It took me a long time but I have adjusted to a sexless marriage.
Life goes on and you can still be happy if you choose to stay in your marriage.

Good luck!


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## Powerbane (Nov 8, 2010)

At some point, it becomes very demoralizing and we start becoming resentful. 

I agree with MEM, bolstering the LD with telling them they are hot or look really good do nothing at all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

that_girl said:


> I just want to slap so many of these women. I mean, maybe their side of the story would enlighten as to WHY they are this way, but if this is how it truly is, then she needs a betchslap.


Yeah, I'd say most women doing this are deserving of that treatment. IME, the most common reason is power / control.

Unfortunately it's not PC for a guy to even suggest that a woman needs to get her sexual act together and take care of business. It's in style to require the guy to have infinite patience and settle for bad sex. So, I will simply agree with you.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

During our first few years of marriage, both my husband and I were very self conscious of our bodies and his is perfect! 

Since I broke my neck, I put on a few pounds and lost my toned body. I ran 36 miles a week and was in perfect shape. That is no longer so.

I am able to exercise a little on the stationary bike, but it's no match to the cardio of a good 6 mile run!

For me now, it took my husband telling me that he needs to see me naked. We never have sex in the total dark. It gets way too hot to be under the covers.lol

I'm sure your wife is very self conscious about her body. There is something that she's afraid that your not going to like. Have you asked her why? You need to remind her that she is beautiful. Hopefully, she'll come around soon.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Maybe Margaret Meade got it right when she proposed that marriages should be for 5 years with a renewable clause.


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## Lionelhutz (Feb 2, 2012)

I am coming to that conclusion myself.


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

Jeff74 said:


> You are not alone...far from it!
> 
> It took me a long time but I have adjusted to a sexless marriage.
> Life goes on and *you can still be happy* if you choose to stay in your marriage.
> ...


And why is that okay with you? Of course if there is a reason for the sexless marriage (ED, Health, Stress & usual ebbs & flows......), understandable for a period of time as you cope, but to accept it and state you are happy is really quite sad.


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## Unhappy2011 (Dec 28, 2011)

Wow, and the problem I had with ex is all we had was sex.

Nothing in common really beyond that. Didn't have much of a rapport. But we ****ed liked rabbits.

relationships are tough.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I wouldn't blow my ex (daughter's father) because he was just a rude SOB. Don't make me feel like a wh0re if you want me to act like one  Just sayin.

I didn't like going down on another ex because he smelled SO GROSS down there. *GAG*...seriously, scrub the sack.


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## Jeff74 (Feb 11, 2012)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> And why is that okay with you? Of course if there is a reason for the sexless marriage (ED, Health, Stress & usual ebbs & flows......), understandable for a period of time as you cope, but to accept it and state you are happy is really quite sad.


At one point in my life I agree that I was quite sad about the whole thing but I went from being a HD spouse to a much lower one and so the sex thing just doesn't bother me anymore. Plus, we have a toddler so I get so much joy from my life from that!

So I disagree with you...to be happy in my life is excellent and though it would be great to have sex with my wife, I am perfectly happy with the way things are. I could have left at any point but instead I made the decision to stay and get myself happy and I did it. 

To answer your question directly "Why is that ok with me?" The answer is that I now have a much much lower sex drive then I used to have and I hardly ever even think about sex (most of the time I think about it when I am on this website!). This works well in our relationship because she and I are now pretty much on par with each other.


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

But are you truly sexless or just having it less? You have a toddler and yes sex takes a breather in many cases. But to be truly sexless is unacceptable and your wife needs to understand how it affects you and the family. 

Short term breaks are expected. 100% sexless is not
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## flnative (Jul 16, 2011)

A lifetime can be a long time to go sexless. I've got 3 kids and I'm not sure what I'd do in your situation. I do know this though, I would not want my kids growing up thinking that kind of life is normal. I know, kids aren't supposed to know about their parents sex life, but kids aren't stupid. They know a lot, especially as they get older. In the absence of some medical reason preventing it, sex is a major component of marriage.


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## Jeff74 (Feb 11, 2012)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> But are you truly sexless or just having it less? You have a toddler and yes sex takes a breather in many cases. But to be truly sexless is unacceptable and your wife needs to understand how it affects you and the family.
> 
> Short term breaks are expected. 100% sexless is not
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We do not ever have sex. Not once a month, not once a year. Never.

What I meant by having a toddler is that he is awesome and so much fun!

I used to agree that sexless was unacceptable but both my wife and I find it acceptable now and think that since we are both on the same page everything is fine. To be honest, ever since we stopped arguing about sex awhile back, things have been great around here. No arguing, we get along well with each other and do a lot of family activities together.

To be honest, I am happier now then I have been in a very long time (including part of the time we were actually having sex). 

So I disagree with you. I think that sexless in unacceptable if one party doesn't agree. But in the case that both find it acceptable I don't think that it causes any problems whatsoever. My wife and I are now both LD sex people so I think for us this works fine.


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

Jeff74 said:


> We do not ever have sex. Not once a month, not once a year. Never.
> 
> What I meant by having a toddler is that he is awesome and so much fun!
> 
> ...


I'll be blunt.

You both are LD (good). You fought about sex. You came to TAM. You've been convinced you no longer need sex. You are okay with that.....

Your wife has turned you into a Eunuch...... Congratulations.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Saying it's a necessity is like saying walking is a necessity. Some people are in wheelchairs though.


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## Hurra (Sep 13, 2009)

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> I'm sure your wife is very self conscious about her body. There is something that she's afraid that your not going to like. Have you asked her why? You need to remind her that she is beautiful. Hopefully, she'll come around soon.


Her figure is unbelievable and many compliment her on it. She has slight skin imperfections on her upper legs. She wants to be perfect but like all humans, no one is perfect. 

I have read NNMSG and MMSL last year. I think by distancing myself and not expecting sex is what one of those books was suggesting. I always use to expect it and get pissed when I didn't get it. So I don't expect it and am beginning to think for myself more so lately knowing that I am not likely jeopardizing any possible sex.

After reading those books I did make an effort to compliment, physical touch, more attention etc and when I make a clever initiation (which wasn't often) I get shot down, sometimes with 3-4 different excuses. "It's light out! We can't do it now!" There was no convincing her otherwise. The time of day didn't seem to be an issue before marriage.

I think if she REALLY wanted to, she wouldn't have these issues, always make excuses etc. I have my own issues and complaints but I can push them aside if it means being intimate with my wife.

She tells me she loves me and buys me inexpensive things but I don't want gifts and actions speak louder than words.

Thanks all for the replies...Mem usually sums up these things well.


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## Jeff74 (Feb 11, 2012)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> I'll be blunt.
> 
> You both are LD (good). You fought about sex. You came to TAM. You've been convinced you no longer need sex. You are okay with that.....
> 
> Your wife has turned you into a Eunuch...... Congratulations.


Lol. Maybe so...but like I said, I could have left if I had chosen to...I've been a lurker here for a long time.

You are right..I feel like I no longer need sex and do not feel it is important for me or my marriage. And my life feels great! I never want to go back to feeling the way I did before..

I am now finally writing on TAM because I feel good about my marriage...so I do think congrats are in order for me. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hurra (Sep 13, 2009)

Jeff74 said:


> Lol. Maybe so...but like I said, I could have left if I had chosen to...I've been a lurker here for a long time.
> 
> You are right..I feel like I no longer need sex and do not feel it is important for me or my marriage. And my life feels great! I never want to go back to feeling the way I did before..
> 
> ...


Congratulations. If you are happy, then that is all that matters.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

You are not alone... I too have no good feeling about ever getting a "normal" sex life from my wife.

She chooses this and I'm done trying to fix her. So she gets what she reaps in return.

Stupid that women don't seem to get what marriage "should" be like.

Frustrating to say the least.

I don't think I'll ever be ok with it.... thats crazy.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Jeff keep an eye on your wife. She may be. nevermind.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

PBear said:


> I'd be really curious to hear my stbxw's side of the story, because for the life of me, I can't figure it out. And I really don't want to make the same mistakes next time around. I did ask for MC at the end, and she gave me nothing to work on, which was pretty disappointing.


Dude, this sounds awfully enmeshed. I strongly suggest you give up this hope, for several reasons.

One, you are presuming you did or failed to do something that led to the end of the marriage. If your wife has not already told you what was wrong with you (and most of us are inclined to blame others before self) why would you think you failed?

Two, there is absolutely zero reason for your stbx to work with you now. In fact, depending on the circumstances (like child custody or asset division issues) there might be good reasons for her to not disclose anything. You guys are adversaries through this process - remember that.

Three, you may reach a point where differences of perspective or values, or simple lying, will lead to an impasse. You will wind up rehashing the same old crap from your marriage. My stbx, for one, claimed I was responsible for her happiness at my own expense and then in the legal process lied about it. Your details may differ but the point is you are unlikely to get any useful information out of the process.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Jeff74 said:


> So I disagree with you. I think that sexless in unacceptable if one party doesn't agree. But in the case that both find it acceptable I don't think that it causes any problems whatsoever. My wife and I are now both LD sex people so I think for us this works fine.


Seriously, my ex would love to be married to you. She actually requested that I reprogram myself along these lines, under the (flawed) presumption that sex drive is just some base urge guys make up to get our rocks off.

I think it's helpful that you state this is a personal decision for the benefit of you and your child, not done because your wife badgered you or because you believe she is more important.


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## Jeff74 (Feb 11, 2012)

morituri said:


> Jeff keep an eye on your wife. She may be. nevermind.


LOL. I don't need to keep an eye on her. I couldn't live a peaceful life in constant worry that she was cheating on me. I have way too many other things going on (running my law firm, etc).


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## Jeff74 (Feb 11, 2012)

DTO said:


> Seriously, my ex would love to be married to you. She actually requested that I reprogram myself along these lines, under the (flawed) presumption that sex drive is just some base urge guys make up to get our rocks off.
> 
> I think it's helpful that you state this is a personal decision for the benefit of you and your child, not done because your wife badgered you or because you believe she is more important.


Good point. My wife didn't badger me into anything. I could have left and could still leave if I wanted to. But I made up my mind that being a part time parent is not what I want out of life. I cannot imagine trading 50% of my time with my child just to have sex with someone.

I agree that the best marriages are ones where the couple has regular sex. However, mine is not like that..so I had two choices. Stay married, be happy and be a full time parent to my child or get divorced in the hopes of finding someone to have sex with while spending only 50% of the time (at best) with my child. At the end of the day the decision was obvious...So here I am. period.

Perhaps when my son is grown and out I will feel differently, but I cannot possibly think that far ahead right now. I am just happy where I am in life and I don't regard sex as a priority.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

If you were to leave, why would you even consider not taking your child with you and let your frigid wife be the "part time parent"?
You surely don't want your children growing up thinking hers is a normal married life, do you?:scratchhead:


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

hookares said:


> If you were to leave, why would you even consider not taking your child with you and let your frigid wife be the "part time parent"?
> You surely don't want your children growing up thinking hers is a normal married life, do you?:scratchhead:


The standard custody arrangement seems to be 50/50 without convincing evidence that the children would be harmed by such an arrangement. I doubt this rises to that standard - assuming that his wife would even tell the truth regarding the matter.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

DTO said:


> Dude, this sounds awfully enmeshed. I strongly suggest you give up this hope, for several reasons.
> 
> One, you are presuming you did or failed to do something that led to the end of the marriage. If your wife has not already told you what was wrong with you (and most of us are inclined to blame others before self) why would you think you failed?
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply I've been moved out for a year, and there's been zero talk of reconciliation. For my part, once I made the decision to move out, there was no intention of turning back. Since then, I've gotten involved with someone new, and we have a very healthy sex life. I'm willing to write off the intimacy issues in my marriage as primarily on my wife's part, with my failings as being limited to not recognizing a poor sexual match and possibly not having all the tools needed to work through all her defenses and layers of armor. With my current partner, communication on our sex life has been very easy and natural, and if one of us gives any suggestion of something new to try, the other one will jump on that like a dog on a meaty bone.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lionelhutz (Feb 2, 2012)

DTO said:


> The standard custody arrangement seems to be 50/50 without convincing evidence that the children would be harmed by such an arrangement. I doubt this rises to that standard - assuming that his wife would even tell the truth regarding the matter.


It does matter what jurisdiction you are in. Also although "custody" may be 50% that doesn't mean that the children spend 50% of their time with both parents. Usually the principal residence is with one parent or the other. That may be dictated by practical considerations even if both parents have good intentions....and in a divorce you can't assume good intentions.


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## CantBeJustMe (Jan 27, 2012)

Jeff74 said:


> Good point. My wife didn't badger me into anything. I could have left and could still leave if I wanted to. But I made up my mind that being a part time parent is not what I want out of life. I cannot imagine trading 50% of my time with my child just to have sex with someone.
> 
> I agree that the best marriages are ones where the couple has regular sex. However, mine is not like that..so I had two choices. Stay married, be happy and be a full time parent to my child or get divorced in the hopes of finding someone to have sex with while spending only 50% of the time (at best) with my child. At the end of the day the decision was obvious...So here I am. period.
> 
> Perhaps when my son is grown and out I will feel differently, but I cannot possibly think that far ahead right now. I am just happy where I am in life and I don't regard sex as a priority.


I truly hope that you actually believe what you are telling us, and yourself.

I’ve been where you are. Your young child will become your focus. You’ll kill the remaining time with work. When your child becomes older and more self-sufficient you will either put more effort and time in your work, or you will realize how wrong you were.

You can suppress and try to replace your natural urges all you want. Even you mention using porn or other outlets to satisfy your urges when they occur. Eventually they will come back. When they do, resentment and guilt will hit you like a freight train.

I hope I’m wrong. Unfortunately, I doubt I am.

It’s not just the physical aspect of sex. It’s the INTIMACY between man and wife. Without that, you are simply roommates that share a bed, a home and parenting duties.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

CantBeJustMe said:


> I truly hope that you actually believe what you are telling us, and yourself.
> 
> I’ve been where you are. Your young child will become your focus. You’ll kill the remaining time with work. When your child becomes older and more self-sufficient you will either put more effort and time in your work, or you will realize how wrong you were.
> 
> ...


I agree I think Jeff is delusional if he's OK with his sexless marriage. He might accept it but no way is he OK with it.

I think the best any sexless marriage can hope for is pretty much where I'm at in mine. I don't bug my wife about it and we get along well together. However everyday I wake up and ask myself how should I act today?

Most of the time it's... just do your own thing, keep the house up doing at least 51%, father the kids.

When it comes to my wife be cordial. Quiet. Avoid too much eye contact.

Nothing more nothing less.
She could get a lot more out of the relationship if/when she decides sex is a good thing in our marriage again. I'm done putting out any extra effort. I tried hard for two years that's enough for any spouse.


The bottom line

It is (and always will be) unacceptable that my wife has not addressed this better over the last two plus years.
It's like all I ever said held very little weight. So now simply I talk less to her.
The kids get an intact household but not good parental role models in terms of spousal intimate behaviors.

It takes two working together. When she decides to try I will also.


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## CantBeJustMe (Jan 27, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> I agree I think Jeff is delusional if he's OK with his sexless marriage. He might accept it but no way is he OK with it.


I agree.



> I think the best any sexless marriage can hope for is pretty much where I'm at in mine. I don't bug my wife about it and we get along well together. However everyday I wake up and ask myself how should I act today?


I’m assuming you’ve read the Married Man Sex Life Primer? (Married Man Sex Life) 

And when you say “bug your wife about it” you mean you never approach her about sex at all?

No offense, but if you don’t bring up the subject of sex, even if it’s just light, playful interactions, then you are basically telling her it’s okay to be your roommate and co-parent, but not be your wife.



> Most of the time it's... just do your own thing, keep the house up doing at least 51%, father the kids.
> 
> When it comes to my wife be cordial. Quiet. Avoid too much eye contact.


Sounds like it’s walking on eggshells. No offense, because I’ve been there, and I’m just changing ME in last month or so, but at this rate why would she ever have sex with you? You’re basically telling her behavior is acceptable by your actions.



> Nothing more nothing less.
> She could get a lot more out of the relationship if/when she decides sex is a good thing in our marriage again. I'm done putting out any extra effort. I tried hard for two years that's enough for any spouse.


What do you mean by extra effort? What event coincided with the loss of sex in your marriage or was it gradual?

If you are content with your efforts in trying to connect with your wife, why would you stay in a sexless marriage? 




> The bottom line
> 
> It is (and always will be) unacceptable that my wife has not addressed this better over the last two plus years.
> It's like all I ever said held very little weight. So now simply I talk less to her.
> ...


Sounds like you’ve given up. It also sounds like you know that the interaction between your wife and yourself is not a good role model for raising your children.

Have you given an ultimatum? 

I finally reached the hardest point in my marriage earlier this month. I’ve given a generous time frame to work out the sex and intimacy issues in my marriage, in my relationship with my wife. Once I’ve complete the goals for ME, and my improvement, and the intimate part of our marriage hasn’t improved, then I have faced the fact I will have to let my wife know it’s not acceptable. If she still refuses to change, then I let her know that I will leave if she forces me to. Because if she doesn’t change, in essence, that is what she’d be doing.

Do I hope it works out? My god yes, it’s been almost 17 years. But I’ve finally faced the possibility it might not and I’ve come to realize I deserve a healthy intimate relationship in my marriage. It doesn’t make me the “bad guy” for wanting this.

Good luck to you.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Hurra said:


> After years of a messed up sex life I've given up hope of having a normal one.
> 
> Every day I anticipate sex once we got to bed, especially when she would hint at it or like it when I suggest. But even if she hint at it, it wouldn't happen. She would have some reason like a headache or dinner didn't sit well or some other reason. She may suggest sex for later but within the hour she is complaining of some problem she is having. Granted they may be legit but I keep a daily record of what is going on and I'm not exaggerating.
> 
> ...


Hi Hurra ~

You realize that your wife is likely testing you?

And... you give up and roll over...avoiding initiating, avoiding just taking her up on the offer right then and there when she makes the suggestion...avoiding any kind of serious communication.

You know how they say that we 'reap what we sow'. Look carefully what you are sowing in your marriage. You can only control YOUR actions and your reactions. But they can have a mightly influence on her. But your actions to her seem to indicate that you really have little interest in her, in your marriage, in intimacy.

So... whatcha going to do about it? 

Here's a good place to start. Take it to heart: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html

Best wishes.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

From the last two posts, it's clearly much wider and deeper than simple celibacy. Your whole relationship is casual and incidental. I'm not sure if you realize that or if you chose to ignore that. Me? I recognize that my whole relationship is entirely broken in nearly every way. Sex is merely one aspect of it. It's not as if everything else is 'fine'. In fact it's all bad. Not bad as in call the cops there's ashtrays flying around or she's bed hopping or a degenerate gambler junkie ho. Bad as in the day to day job is steer clear - be where the sh^t ain't so to speak. Like working for a crazy boss or living with a lunatic sister. Sex would make things worse, as I've mentioned to my own wife before "Just be horrible all the time instead of pretending to be nice 5% of the time, it's less of a let down that way."


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## Jeff74 (Feb 11, 2012)

hookares said:


> If you were to leave, why would you even consider not taking your child with you and let your frigid wife be the "part time parent"?
> You surely don't want your children growing up thinking hers is a normal married life, do you?:scratchhead:


If life were that simple! That is not at all how the law works when it comes to custody (barring abuse, etc).
Most likely outcome..joint custody both physical and legal. So both of us would be part time parents.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jeff74 (Feb 11, 2012)

CantBeJustMe said:


> I truly hope that you actually believe what you are telling us, and yourself.
> 
> I’ve been where you are. Your young child will become your focus. You’ll kill the remaining time with work. When your child becomes older and more self-sufficient you will either put more effort and time in your work, or you will realize how wrong you were.
> 
> ...


I cannot forecast the future and you might be right...I really can't say. 

I don't miss the intimacy with my wife, though, because that was never important to me or to her. I missed the sex for a long time because of my physical urges to have sex..but porn, etc release those urges the same way that sex did. So I don't really agree about the intimacy comment because neither of us were ever intimate people (other than sex I suppose)

But as I said before things may change, who knows? Guess I'll find out down the road!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jeff74 (Feb 11, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> I agree I think Jeff is delusional if he's OK with his sexless marriage. He might accept it but no way is he OK with it.
> 
> I think the best any sexless marriage can hope for is pretty much where I'm at in mine. I don't bug my wife about it and we get along well together. However everyday I wake up and ask myself how should I act today?
> 
> ...


I might be delusional! I've been called worse.

I am fine with it..seriously. Maybe that feeling will change one day, don't know...I just don't know the future.

The truth is that my wife and I have never been the romantic/emotional type (we are similar in that way) so I don't miss intimacy because I never have needed that. I did need sex though (which is intimate I agree) but at this point in my life porn, etc suffices any sexual urges that I have the same exact way sex did. It's a physical need for me...not an emotional one of that makes sense?

But as I said before you might be right..I guess we will see what the future decades look like!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

Jeff74 said:


> I cannot forecast the future and you might be right...I really can't say.
> 
> I don't miss the intimacy with my wife, though, because that was never important to me or to her. I missed the sex for a long time because of my physical urges to have sex..but porn, etc release those urges the same way that sex did. So I don't really agree about the intimacy comment because neither of us were ever intimate people (other than sex I suppose)
> 
> ...


I'm sure many wives (according to their spouses) would think your the perfect husband. I will no longer try and convince you that you are completely wrong and out of it. All I can do is shake my head and sigh how sad you are.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jeff74 (Feb 11, 2012)

Lionelhutz said:


> It does matter what jurisdiction you are in. Also although "custody" may be 50% that doesn't mean that the children spend 50% of their time with both parents. Usually the principal residence is with one parent or the other. That may be dictated by practical considerations even if both parents have good intentions....and in a divorce you can't assume good intentions.


It's much more obtuse than even that but in the end, both parents became part time parents regardless of the % physical custody split (except sole 100%)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Skate Daddy 9 (Sep 19, 2011)

In my marriage I am the high demand partner and my wife is the low demand partner and the thing I wish she understood is it is very hard to feel emotionally connected to her when we are not physically connecting. Today is the 27th and we have not had sex since Valentine’s Day (13 days), and I am not trying to be this way but I really don’t feel anything other than my wife is more of a roommate then a wife. I don’t feel a need to listen to her frustrations or complaints; I don’t feel like rushing home after work to talk to her or help her in any way, I just feel very disconnected from her. I have tried to explain it to her but she sees it as an argument. The best I can say to her is there is a cause and effect to her actions and I am doing my best to respect her feelings but I can’t control how it makes me feel in return.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Skate - not picking on you but I am trying to understand. 

What you have said here is the clearest I have ever read of the manifestation of low sexual frequency on the willingness to communicate. 

I cannot make out what sex or the lack thereof has to do with communicating with your wife. If you stop talking to her don't you think that will distance you further? Don't your feelings for her go deeper than the sex you have with her? 

I rarely deny my husband, but then he is sensitive and when I am legitimately sick or very tired, he just comforts me or I him and we just rest. 

If he stopped talking to me, I would have a problem maintaining an emotional connection with him. I think I would feel that I am only worth talking to if I have sex with him otherwise I mean nothing. 

I would really feel bad if I began to feel that my husbands love for me is based on how much sex he gets out of me. 

On the other hand, I understand that men feel an emotional disconnect when the physical closeness is infrequent. 

I cannot reconcile the two. I just imagine myself in your wife's place and I know I would feel hurt and devalued if my husband stopped talking to me. 

I thought of this many times but this is the first time that I expressed it. 

Don't know what I am asking - maybe just to help me understand?


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## Hurra (Sep 13, 2009)

Catherine602 said:


> Skate - not picking on you but I am trying to understand.
> 
> What you have said here is the clearest I have ever read of the manifestation of low sexual frequency on the willingness to communicate.
> 
> ...


I can relate to Skate. I feel disconnected from my wife and find a talk less to her. Talking about the problem can be more difficult at this point. But it is a catch 22? I didn't expect to find myself this disconnected.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bubbly girl (Oct 11, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Skate - not picking on you but I am trying to understand.
> 
> What you have said here is the clearest I have ever read of the manifestation of low sexual frequency on the willingness to communicate.
> 
> ...


Physical intimacy is how he feels close to his wife. Without any, he feels disconnected to her. His pulling away emotionally is the effect of her pulling away physically. 

From what he wrote, the lack of sex came first, then the loss of his desire to talk to his wife. They each have needs and she's refusing to meet his. He's tried explaining how important the physical connection is to him, but she refuses to listen. It's not important to her so she's not understanding (or willing to understand) that it's important to him.


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## CantBeJustMe (Jan 27, 2012)

Skate Daddy 9 said:


> In my marriage I am the high demand partner and my wife is the low demand partner and the thing I wish she understood is it is very hard to feel emotionally connected to her when we are not physically connecting.


Just playing Devil’s advocate here. Did you ever think that maybe your wife has trouble having frequent sex with because she doesn’t feel emotionally connected to you?



> Today is the 27th and we have not had sex since Valentine’s Day (13 days), and I am not trying to be this way but I really don’t feel anything other than my wife is more of a roommate then a wife.


Just throwing out that you’ve gone 13 days without sex is not really an indicator of the true state of your marriage. 13 days without sex and you’re already pulling away from her? Do you think you pulling away from her is going to make her want to have more sex?




> I don’t feel a need to listen to her frustrations or complaints; I don’t feel like rushing home after work to talk to her or help her in any way, I just feel very disconnected from her. I have tried to explain it to her but she sees it as an argument. The best I can say to her is there is a cause and effect to her actions and I am doing my best to respect her feelings but I can’t control how it makes me feel in return.


You’re keeping score. 

You:

“Doesn’t she know that sex makes me feel close to her? Well I just won’t listen to her or give her the things she needs, because I’m not getting what I need.”

Her:

“Doesn’t he know that when he listens to me and talks to me it makes me feel close to him? Well I just won’t give him what he needs (sex), because I’m not getting what I need.”

Be prepared for a long ride. Marriage isn’t about keeping score. I’ve seen marriages crumble just because neither one wanted to be the first one to “give in” to the other. Good luck.


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## Skate Daddy 9 (Sep 19, 2011)

Bubbly Girl hit it right on the nose, and it is a horrible catch 22 because I understand she needs to be listened to and she needs for me to lay on the couch and watch “The Notebook” without getting frisky, but I feel a huge lack of understanding in return. 
Cantbejustme…No I don’t think my wife has a problem having sex with me because of lace of intimacy, we have been married 20 years this May and she has sex with me once to twice a month, the day she ovulates and maybe at the end of her period. That is the only time her hormones spike and no matter how loving, attentive or attractive I try to make myself we have sex the same one to two times a month. That being said I have learned that it is the norm at our house and I am fine with it. Cantbejustme you said I am keeping score but I am not, I see marriage more like a teeter-totter then a score card. I know the teeter-totter cant go perfectly back and forth all the time but if it is stuck on one side more than the other you can’t expect the other spouse not to feel neglected after a while. 
Catherine603…You make it sound like I give her the silent treatment if she does not put out, that is far from what is happening. What I was trying to say is that she gets her intimacy needs filled by me being a good listener at 10:30 at night and I get my intimacy needs filled by having sex. My wife wants me to be physically and emotionally attentive to her 365 days a year but in return only be attentive to me 12 to 24 days a year.
I hope I don’t sound argumentative because that is not my intention, just simple trying to respond to the different post. Thanks.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> I would really feel bad if I began to feel that my husbands love for me is based on how much sex he gets out of me.
> 
> On the other hand, I understand that men feel an emotional disconnect when the physical closeness is infrequent.
> 
> I cannot reconcile the two. I just imagine myself in your wife's place and I know I would feel hurt and devalued if my husband stopped talking to me.


Yeah, that's a tough one. There really is no way to reconcile them. You have to acknowledge that you will either get into a virtuous cycle (which is what you have) or a vicious cycle.

That's exactly why I cringe when a person (typically the wife, unfortunately) asks "how do I get my spouse to put me first". The best answer is "you need to serve each other together" and I like to add "you can insist on being first but you need to be ready to meet his or her needs right after".


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Trying2figureitout said:


> I agree I think Jeff is delusional if he's OK with his sexless marriage. He might accept it but no way is he OK with it.
> 
> I think the best any sexless marriage can hope for is pretty much where I'm at in mine. I don't bug my wife about it and we get along well together. However everyday I wake up and ask myself how should I act today?
> 
> ...


I don't think Jeff is delusional. I would agree (as was said) that he is probably LD (at least now) and giving up sex, while a loss, is not as big a deal to him as it might be to others among us. That implies that not everyone can achieve the state of peace within a sexless marriage that Jeff has managed.

The problem with the this approach is the spouse might not tolerate indifference coming back, no matter how justified. Jeff's primary goal is to preserve the marriage and thus daily access to his child. Thus, he has to also make it worth his wife's while to remain married as well. For her part, she seems to know that he cannot go completely without and tolerates porn use.

And, many women will get offended if you detach or use porn, chat groups, etc. (I know some of you disagree). My own ex did just that, and I've read other similar stories. A big problem is an extreme lack of empathy on the part of the LD spouse.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Skate - not picking on you but I am trying to understand.
> 
> What you have said here is the clearest I have ever read of the manifestation of low sexual frequency on the willingness to communicate.
> 
> ...


While I don’t intend to criticize, there is a certain judgment that non-sexual communication is more important than sex. It may be to you (and most woman), but to many if not most men, sex is a critical part of communication in a marriage.

You note how hurt you would be if your husband quit communicating with you. That is completely understandable, especially if you are meeting his needs. But if you are not meeting his needs, why would this action be surprising. Imagine for a moment that you have sex regularly with your husband, yet he does not meet your emotional needs. Would you continue to desire to have sex with him? Wouldn’t that desire wane, resulting in less frequent sex? I expect that it would and certainly would not blame you or any other woman if that was the result. 

So let’s flip it around. Skate appears to be meeting his wife’s needs. He talks with her, pays attention and tries to connect. Yet she only wants sex once or twice a month. She is not meeting his needs and despite him raising this issue, does not seem interested in doing so. Is it surprising that his desire to meet her needs would wane? That his urge to connect is not the same as when she is trying to meet his needs? That he would question how important he really is to her? Unconditional love is a great theory, but we are all human. One partner ignoring the needs of another, whether intentionally or not, will naturally affect the level of effort of the other partner.

Meeting a spouses needs is not a one-way street. It has to go both ways. While the non-sexual aspects are not important to me on a base level, they are important because they are important to my wife. The same holds true for my wife and sex.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Lionelhutz said:


> It does matter what jurisdiction you are in. Also although "custody" may be 50% that doesn't mean that the children spend 50% of their time with both parents. Usually the principal residence is with one parent or the other. That may be dictated by practical considerations even if both parents have good intentions....and in a divorce you can't assume good intentions.


It's really simple. A child cannot possibly be in two places at the same time. If the marriage ends the overwhelming likelihood is that the child will spend significant time in both households.

The only way a parent would not experience a loss is if they were granted 100% custody. That is so rare that you would have to be delusional to count on it.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> I'm sure many wives (according to their spouses) would think your the perfect husband. I will no longer try and convince you that you are completely wrong and out of it. All I can do is shake my head and sigh how sad you are.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm wondering why you feel you know better than Jeff how he feels about his situation. If he's ok with it, why do you think he's sad?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

There's nothing at all wrong with Jeff. It's simply a different water level than yours. His equilibrium is different from yours. If it works for them, it works. And in fact I'd be more suspect if his sexless wife expected or demanded the full fairy tale experience with lavish romantic attention in EVERY OTHER WAY since that's truly an almost psychopathic affinity for a reality that does not exist and it's more reflective of the emotional maturity of a 10 year old. It comes down to a mutually implied détente; I give you the level of non sex you demand, and in turn I give you the level of romance that makes sense with that. Look, the fact is, what's 'normal' for you isn't for everyone. It's not good or bad it just is.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Skate - not picking on you but I am trying to understand.
> 
> What you have said here is the clearest I have ever read of the manifestation of low sexual frequency on the willingness to communicate.
> 
> ...


Catherine...

Skate pretty much nailed it. I think it just comes down to what one's perception about "fairness" is. In reality us spouses do "love" our wives. We typically just want our marriage to be what we consider "normal" no more no less.

When you are the higher drive spouse in a sexless marriage. You feel unheard and unloved when your partner "refuses" to meet you halfway at least. 

Over time this builds resentment. A husband has only so many things he can do. One of them is to control how he communicates with his "refusing" wife. Her refusal of a main need needs to have some reaction.

One can't be expected to act as if everything is ok when it isn't.

So normal communication suffers.

It is a catch 22.... It takes both partners at the same time deciding to do their part.

Only then can this be solved.

Most sexless marriages take a long time to get to that point IF they ever do.


For me if I saw ANY direct change in my wife for the better that would help. I'm waiting.

As for not talking except when she has sex... well unfortunately that is reality.
She made a choice to withhold a lot of sex, it suck when you get shot down over 90% of the time. Sooner or later you just stop trying.

It's stupid because in reality sex only accounts for about 10% of a marriage... bu when that 10% is messed up the other 90% holds less weight. For a guy it's a VERY important 10%.

I think the main problem is a guy cant "fake" being happy... he either is or isn't. Without sex guys are not happy especially if they committed to a monogamous relationship with their wife. The wife is looking for a happy communicative hubby nevr realizing that her lack of sex is what is causing her husband to be less happy. Women think husbands should suck it up its only sex. They think "Well if he were happier sure I'd have sex with him". 

Women hold the key they have a DIRECT action that can change this whole dynamic... If my wife just once decided that today she would rock my world... that would make me happy.
She would get what she is seeking.

Most guys don't hold grudges... they just want fair.

Back to waiting.


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## Lionelhutz (Feb 2, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Catherine...
> 
> Skate pretty much nailed it. I think it just comes down to what one's perception about "fairness" is. In reality us spouses do "love" our wives. We typically just want our marriage to be what we consider "normal" no more no less.
> 
> ...


One of the words of wisdom my Dad used to say, if both spouses commit to giving equally to the marriage it is doomed to failure. Both spouses have to plan to give 100%. BTW my parents have been married for more than 50 years and they both seem very happy.

The ebb and flow of who is giving the most to the relationship may not be equal for extended periods of time over the course of a marriage. But I think over time there must be an attitude by both partners that the needs of the other are just as important as their own.

Both Catherine and Skate may have a point depending on the history of the relationship. However, I think Skate is talking about an attitude by some that sex is nothing more than the optional bonus that may or may not happen once all the needs of the other partner are continuously met. 

What if the situation were reserved? What is the husband in the example above says, "I'm okay with little or no romance or non-sexual affection, but if we have regular, frequent and exciting sex, then I might feel more in the mood to occasionally reward you with a bit of romance or non-sexual affection."

We would all agree that was an unfair and selfish point of view.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Lionelhutz said:


> One of the words of wisdom my Dad used to say, if both spouses commit to giving equally to the marriage it is doomed to failure. Both spouses have to plan to give 100%. BTW my parents have been married for more than 50 years and they both seem very happy.
> 
> The ebb and flow of who is giving the most to the relationship may not be equal for extended periods of time over the course of a marriage. But I think over time there must be an attitude by both partners that the needs of the other are just as important as their own.
> 
> ...



Still requires a wife to have sex that has been the sticking point in my marriage over the life of it especially over the past two years. Skate complains about every three weeks.... I'm at on average right now every three to four months.


The MAIN issue is SEX is an identifiable quantity... every guy I know can recall to the second when the last time he had sex. The other stuff women seek is more long term overall impression.

Sex when it goes missing is instantly recognized by every guy on the planet. It has an immediate effect.

Withholding women are hurting themselves also. Why get married if you don't want regular sex?

Ideally women would recognize this and MAKE CERTAIN it never drops below a certain threshold NO MATTER WHAT.

But most sexless wifes have no clue.


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

that_girl said:


> I just want to slap so many of these women. I mean, maybe their side of the story would enlighten as to WHY they are this way, but if this is how it truly is, then she needs a betchslap.


Maybe some resentment on her end?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

southern wife said:


> Maybe some resentment on her end?


If my wife had resentment, I'd like to at least think I gave her opportunities to air the reasons why. I've never so much as raised my voice to her in 17 years of marriage. But if they refuse to share, then what?

Ah well... Whatchu gonna do?

C


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## cantmove (Feb 20, 2012)

delete


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

cantmove, thank you for sharing that. I can't imagine it's easy to say, even to people you'll never meet.

C


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## Jeff74 (Feb 11, 2012)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> I'm sure many wives (according to their spouses) would think your the perfect husband. I will no longer try and convince you that you are completely wrong and out of it. All I can do is shake my head and sigh how sad you are.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am very confused by this message for two reasons. First, it sounds like an offensive angry tone in that MSG and I have no idea why? Second, what proof can you share (as in evidence) that I am completely wrong?

I think what you meant to say was that in your opinion you cannot imagine yourself or perhaps anyone else being happy in my situation. That's s valid opinion and I respect that. But to state that I am completely wrong because you have decided that your opinion is a fact or rule is simply invalid. Furthermore, your opinion regarding how "sad I am" is not even correct. I am not sad and do not feel sad.

I have no idea how your marriage is structured but if you are happy in the way you are living your life then good for you. Just remember, that an opinion is an opinion and the way you see things does not make your vision universally correct....far from it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

cantmove said:


> I was one of those women and it was wrong but there are always reasons. I was sexually molested as a child and I was date raped in college. I have always had a low self esteem and unfortunately while really liking sex I used to find it somewhat degrading even with my husband. Then we had fertility trouble and I turned sex into a job for procreation only. So my husband cheated on me for a year. Well that didn't help my insecurities a bit. I wanted to be different but it was like I was frozen and couldn't respond and certainly didn't initiate. I have watched my husband cry about it wanting to know what was wrong with him. It was never him. Well when things didn't change he started affair again for 6 years. Over time he detached from me even when I did try to initiate.I found out last year about the affair and he said he didn't love me anymore. Even though I went to counciling and and have completely changed( want sex all the time) and realize what I have done he says it's too late. I wish it were not the truth I get it. My councilor says I wasn't capable at the time and I have grown so much and actually care about myself. I just wish I had been able to do it before I lost my husband. For those of you in sexless marriages don't give up, find out why and if you are the one not capable get help. It will be the best thing you'ver ever done for your marriage and yourself.


You need to tell my wife that.


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

You watch porn, masturbate and are sexual, just not with your wife who has convinced you that there is no need for sex and certainly intimacy with her. 

I stand by what I wrote and am sorry for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

Trying2figureitout said:


> You need to tell my wife that.


T2FIO..... Sorry to see you back here......


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

T2,
Your W understands the situation perfectly. 

She knows you very well. And because of that she perceived all your "threats to leave" as bluster - and was confident you wouldn't actually carry through with them. 

She knows you are very unhappy. This is a "wiring" thing. Women are wired to care for children not husbands. The husband needs to create respect such that she WANTS to please him and avoid displeasing him. If he doesn't do THAT, he finds that she is very unconcerned with how he feels. 

Given how intensely focused your W is on fitness, I would be surprised if there wasn't someone else. It is rare to work out that hard unless there is a sexual partner you are trying to catch/keep....



Trying2figureitout said:


> You need to tell my wife that.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> T2FIO..... Sorry to see you back here......


Thanks...me too in a way. This response goes to Mem also.

Not to threadcap but just an update and a reason for my absense from TAM. My wife broke her knee and had surgery and has been recovering for the past two months. Our sex struggles have been put on hold temporarily by me . She is not cheating...her gym workouts are because she needs to do that for circulation reasons in her legs. Blood clots etc.

We'll see where we are once she recovers probably another few weeks. I did call her out on a possible EA during that timeframe with a guy from the gym (Lots of texts at all hours), I'm satisfied with her expalination of their friendship and no I'm not stupid. I contacted the guy directly also.

Just waiting patiently for things to get normal with her knee to see exactely where her and I are now.


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## Jeff74 (Feb 11, 2012)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> You watch porn, masturbate and are sexual, just not with your wife who has convinced you that there is no need for sex and certainly intimacy with her.
> 
> I stand by what I wrote and am sorry for you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No need to feel sorry for me I am fine. 

And my wife convinced me of nothing. As I stated in my other messages I could have chose to leave at any point.

I value the time with my son more than anything else. I will not trade away time with him for a new relationship.

If I get divorced I will lose time with my son..probably 50% for many many years to come. 

It took a long time to determine what is most important to me but sex is not even close to the top of that list. 

If my wife were interested in sex, I would have sex with her...but she is not interested in it. This is just a fact that I have accepted and have successfully learned to live with.

I understand there are people in the same situation who would leave their marriages and that is perfectly fine...but that is not who I am and I will not trade time with my son in the hope of having sex with someone else. Period.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Jeff74 said:


> No need to feel sorry for me I am fine.
> 
> And my wife convinced me of nothing. As I stated in my other messages I could have chose to leave at any point.
> 
> ...


Or you can be like me and stay married yet still resent the fact you are not having sex. Deep down you are me. There is no way on Earth you are OK with it. I'm fine also yet everyday sexless drags on is a day less spectacular.


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

Jeff74 said:


> No need to feel sorry for me I am fine.
> 
> And my wife convinced me of nothing. As I stated in my other messages I could have chose to leave at any point.
> 
> ...




If I'm reading correctly, Bascially what you are saying is, you have put the need/want for sex on a lower tier in your life and your time with your son is the number 1 need in your life as his need to have his dad around full time is a great need for him as well...
Overall your marriage seems to be fine, and the other factors of your marriage out weigh the low sex department, you are not miserable.
Good for you..and I mean it


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

Well all the power to him. I just wonder why he is on TAM in the Sex Topics section telling us that?

I am sure many people/couples live like this and I really have no issues at all with it. What is, is...... 

The point is he is here and I wonder what his end game is?


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## Jeff74 (Feb 11, 2012)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> Well all the power to him. I just wonder why he is on TAM in the Sex Topics section telling us that?
> 
> I am sure many people/couples live like this and I really have no issues at all with it. What is, is......
> 
> The point is he is here and I wonder what his end game is?


3 reasons:

1. I wanted to share my experience with others
2. This is an open forum where all opinions should be shared
3. I was asked about it

No end game for me. Life is not a game. The whole point is to be happy with our choices.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jeff74 (Feb 11, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Or you can be like me and stay married yet still resent the fact you are not having sex. Deep down you are me. There is no way on Earth you are OK with it. I'm fine also yet everyday sexless drags on is a day less spectacular.


You are incorrect for two reasons:

1. Deep down I am not you. Just because you feel a certain way cannot possibly mean everyone else must feel the same way. It is crazy to think that somehow your feelings represent how I feel. I cannot imagine how you could even say that?

2. I am on earth and I am perfectly fine with it.

I think what you meant to say is that you believe I have convinced myself that I am happy while I am really unhappy. My response would be the counter argument...it may be the case where you are actually happy but have convinced yourself you are unhappy because that's what you want to believe.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jeff74 (Feb 11, 2012)

strugglinghusband said:


> If I'm reading correctly, Bascially what you are saying is, you have put the need/want for sex on a lower tier in your life and your time with your son is the number 1 need in your life as his need to have his dad around full time is a great need for him as well...
> Overall your marriage seems to be fine, and the other factors of your marriage out weigh the low sex department, you are not miserable.
> Good for you..and I mean it


Thanks for your response.

It is so strange that I am told by others on here that I cannot possibly feel the way that I do..so I appreciate your comment

I have been posting messages on here to show people that there is hope in trying to be happy in a sexless marriage...in my experience, it can be done. I don't know why people are so confrontational on here when all I am doing is sharing my opinions and experiences...this is an open forum where all should be allowed to share their lives.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> Well all the power to him. I just wonder why he is on TAM in the Sex Topics section telling us that?
> 
> I am sure many people/couples live like this and I really have no issues at all with it. What is, is......
> 
> The point is he is here and I wonder what his end game is?



_Damn right all the power to him, he seems ok with HIS situtation,so many others are not.
Maybe he is here to offer some advice on how he got to this mind set, for folks to try and think of things in a different perspective, hey if it works for him, possibly it can work for others.. and they can be content/happy with what they have._


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Jeff74 said:


> Thanks for your response.
> 
> It is so strange that I am told by others on here that I cannot possibly feel the way that I do..so I appreciate your comment
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, much of this reaction is coming from these posters personal experience. They have been told that sex is wrong, not important, something that civilized people don't do, whatever. Because it is an important need to these posters, they are being told their needs are wrong, not important or not civilized. They feel rejected. They are told they should be happy to have a wonderful wife even if she does nto want sex with them, and that they should suck it up and be happy. Your posts trigger those same feelings of rejection. So I would try not to take it personally.

If this truly and honestly works for you, then I am happy for you. I will say I disagree with your statement that "it can be done" and would replace it with "some men can make it work." That is, some people place a higher value on sex within marriage than others. That is neither right nor wrong, it just is. So while some people can do it, others can't. I would not want to imply that they are lesser people because they cannot.

Edit - Jeff, without getting too personal, did you discuss with your wife you stepping outside your marriage for you to have sex. If so, how did those conversations go? If not, why not.


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Unfortunately, much of this reaction is coming from these posters personal experience. They have been told that sex is wrong, not important, something that civilized people don't do, whatever. Because it is an important need to these posters, they are being told their needs are wrong, not important or not civilized. They feel rejected. They are told they should be happy to have a wonderful wife even if she does nto want sex with them, and that they should suck it up and be happy. Your posts trigger those same feelings of rejection. So I would try not to take it personally.
> 
> If this truly and honestly works for you, then I am happy for you. I will say I disagree with your statement that "it can be done" and would replace it with "some men can make it work." That is, some people place a higher value on sex within marriage than others. That is neither right nor wrong, it just is. So while some people can do it, others can't. I would not want to imply that they are lesser people because they cannot.


:iagree:

What works for some may not work for others
BTW.I'm the HD she's the LD, so I know what the rejection feels like(SUCKS!!!)....just trying to look at it from all sides.


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

I think we all get it..... Congratulations Jeff74 that you have replaced sex and intimacy in a marriage with Porn..... Wow, what a concept. 

I think since your wife is so open, appreciative and understanding of your magnanimous gesture (one she has convinced you is right), that you should watch that porn and masturbate in her presence. Yes I am being nasty in order to prove a point........ 

Curious Jeff74 as a LD spouse am wondering as to how often you do watch porn and masturbate?

Ask because I am sure based on the amount I have sex and masturbate, I can convince myself too that I am LD.


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## Jeff74 (Feb 11, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Unfortunately, much of this reaction is coming from these posters personal experience. They have been told that sex is wrong, not important, something that civilized people don't do, whatever. Because it is an important need to these posters, they are being told their needs are wrong, not important or not civilized. They feel rejected. They are told they should be happy to have a wonderful wife even if she does nto want sex with them, and that they should suck it up and be happy. Your posts trigger those same feelings of rejection. So I would try not to take it personally.
> 
> If this truly and honestly works for you, then I am happy for you. I will say I disagree with your statement that "it can be done" and would replace it with "some men can make it work." That is, some people place a higher value on sex within marriage than others. That is neither right nor wrong, it just is. So while some people can do it, others can't. I would not want to imply that they are lesser people because they cannot.
> 
> Edit - Jeff, without getting too personal, did you discuss with your wife you stepping outside your marriage for you to have sex. If so, how did those conversations go? If not, why not.


Thanks for the thoughtful response and you are correct that some men (and probably also some women) can make it work.

I understand your point about the frustration the men here are feeling as I went through 2+ years of feeling that. And your point about that frustration being taken out on me also makes some sense. 

To answer your question I have not talked to my wife about stepping outside my marriage for sex. Two reasons: 1. The act of having sex really is not that important to me. 2. I am not sure that I would feel comfortable having sex with someone else while being married (even though my marriage is sexless) even if my wife agreed that it was ok.

Having gone from being a HD spouse to a LD spouse I feel like I have a pretty good perspective from both sides. 

And again, I also do not mean to be confrontational on here. We are all just trying to help each other out and I was just trying to share my experience to let others know that, as you put it, some men can make it work.


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## Jeff74 (Feb 11, 2012)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> I think we all get it..... Congratulations Jeff74 that you have replaced sex and intimacy in a marriage with Porn..... Wow, what a concept.
> 
> I think since your wife is so open, appreciative and understanding of your magnanimous gesture (one she has convinced you is right), that you should watch that porn and masturbate in her presence. Yes I am being nasty in order to prove a point........
> 
> ...


Since you would like to continue this conversation I am happy to do so. And if your demeanor is to be "nasty" (your words) then so be it. 

Let me try to more clear to you because I think you are failing to understand my perspective. You keep focussing so much on sex but as I have said before, this is not about sex. ...so here is my question to you:

*What would you do in my situation?* 

My wife does not want to have sex and I do not want to be a part time parent by getting divorced.

So again, what would you do?

What I did over the course of several years was work on getting myself happy with life so that I could be around my son as he grows...and guess what, I am happy. My wife isn;t going to change so I have to accept that.

So again, what would you do?

I take it you would leave and find a new partner. That's fine if you make that decision.

So the way I look at it, there are 3 options:

1. Stay married and be miserable but be a full time parent
2. Stay married and be happy and be a full time parent
3. Get divorced, try to find someone new to have sex with and be a part time parent.

I chose #2 because to me that seemed like the best choice.

I know, I know, you are going to say I am not really happy...I get it. And I am not going to try to convince you anymore that I am because you are so close minded that you will never believe that someone could possibly be happy in a situation that you feel is impossible to be happy in. You have this god-like complex that you seem to know best. Well, welcome to planet earth where different people feel different things. Yes, I am being nasty..to make a point. What you think and what you feel is NOT universal and when you think that it is universal..well, my friend, that is delusional.


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