# hurt and confused. -Venting -



## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

About three to four weeks ago at my request I asked my wife for us to spend more time together. ( we actually spend none together at all ) I suggested she come on evening walks with me and the dog. As I take the dog for a walk every evening I thought it would be a good way to get together. I can say with confidence that although I ask every night she has come up with an excuse not to go over 80% of the time. Tonight before I left I said "are you coming for a walk with me? " Big silence and heavy sigh from her. Man that pissed me off. She had just got back with the kids from 5 days away from home and had been on one walk with me that ended with us arguing the night before. SO my feelings are hurt, feels like I'm making tons of effort to get our marriage back on track and she's sighing like I'm an inconvenience. And everything else she does is so much more important than spending time together.

So I go outside and she thens tells me how important getting the dishes done are and she'll go for a walk with me if I promise to help? WTF ? I said the walk was unconditional and it was so we could spend time together. At this point I'm taking it badly as my feelings are very hurt from the rejection so I was angry. Then she said she didn't want to go on a walk with a angry jerk. I told her to stop making me the bad guy in this and left. Then she tried to blame me again for not wanting to go on the walk when I got home. I told her she needs to own how she feels. I had nothing to do with her decision. Some BS about the dishes. 

I have been trying but I feel like it's all one sided here. I am so frustrated, hurt, confused, you name it. It totally sucks.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

It sounds like your wife is using passive/covert aggression. Instead of thumping you with her fists or such to cause you pain, she uses psychology to cause you pain with your emotions.

Her passive aggression may be a response to her resentment for things you’ve done in the past or she may well be an aggressive type of person, either way her aggression is very wrong and never solved any problems.

She’s so obviously not interested in working with you to make your marriage a happy and healthy one. To make this happen requires that both partners are in love with one another and 100% committed to the marriage and the task of working on it. Without those things you’re spinning your wheels and wasting time, energy and money that you’ll get a better return on if you invest elsewhere.

With these types of situations you need an intervention, like major surgery. This requires outside help as you cannot carry out the operation because of how close you are to the problems and your lack of experience and expertise. See if you can get your wife to go on http://www.alphausa.org/Groups/1000056818/The_Marriage_Course.aspx. After 40 odd years with my wife I tell the modules at http://www.alphausa.org/Publisher/Article.aspx?ID=1000063050 are spot on.

If your wife will not attend such a course with you then if I were you I’d take that as a massive sign my marriage is over and my next step would be to serve her with divorce papers.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

CanadianGuy said:


> About three to four weeks ago at my request I asked my wife for us to spend more time together. ( we actually spend none together at all ) I suggested she come on evening walks with me and the dog. As I take the dog for a walk every evening I thought it would be a good way to get together. I can say with confidence that although I ask every night she has come up with an excuse not to go over 80% of the time. Tonight before I left I said "are you coming for a walk with me? " Big silence and heavy sigh from her. Man that pissed me off. She had just got back with the kids from 5 days away from home and had been on one walk with me that ended with us arguing the night before. SO my feelings are hurt, feels like I'm making tons of effort to get our marriage back on track and she's sighing like I'm an inconvenience. And everything else she does is so much more important than spending time together.
> 
> So I go outside and she thens tells me how important getting the dishes done are and she'll go for a walk with me if I promise to help? WTF ? I said the walk was unconditional and it was so we could spend time together. At this point I'm taking it badly as my feelings are very hurt from the rejection so I was angry. Then she said she didn't want to go on a walk with a angry jerk. I told her to stop making me the bad guy in this and left. Then she tried to blame me again for not wanting to go on the walk when I got home. I told her she needs to own how she feels. I had nothing to do with her decision. Some BS about the dishes.
> 
> I have been trying but I feel like it's all one sided here. I am so frustrated, hurt, confused, you name it. It totally sucks.


Why wouldn't you help her with the dishes? Give and take!


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

This could have ended differently if you'd just done the dishes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

How does that work then?

What if he responds with “Ok. You come for a walk with me and I’ll help with the dishes later”.

Which is still wrong because she's passive aggressively withholding her love and making it conditional. She wants to love him, she goes for a walk with him. She doesn't want to love him, she puts obstacles in his way.


Some of you guys sound like you need a revision course http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

tacoma said:


> This could have ended differently if you'd just done the dishes.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He complained they weren't spending time together. Wouldn't HELPING with the dishes be spending time together?


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

AFEH said:


> How does that work then?
> 
> What if he responds with “Ok. You come for a walk with me and I’ll help with the dishes later”.
> 
> ...


You don't compromise with your wife? She did say HELP with the dishes and wouldn't that be spending time with his w, and that is what he is trying to do?


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## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

Sbrown, AFEH, 

Thanks for your perspectives.

Sbrown, what you say makes a lot of sense. Just help and problem solved. Sounds easy. It was the way in which the message was delivered. Sigh and big silence, like I was getting in the way of her priorities. It made me feel like once again our time is something that can go to the bottom of the list because there is dishes, laundry, sweeping, spending time watching movies with the kids, you name it, it comes before us time. She had already agreed to go on these walks with together without conditions. I agree that doing dishes together is spending time together and we've done that quite a bit. 

The last 10 or more times I've asked her on a date there has always been something or some excuse in the way. In fact once she said no but I was to give her the money I would spend so she could put it on the VISA. Ouch. 

So I thought, walks don't cost anything. End of the day, quick 20 to 30 mins. That's it 20 to 30 mins. During the walk she could have said she still had those dishes to do when she got back. I'm no dummy, I would have said that I would be happy to do them together or that I would finish them up. 

Why could the dishes not wait? Am I to believe that these dishes are so important to her that she has to bargain with me when she already agreed unconditionally to these walks. 

As long as she is alive there will always be dishes, but there will come a point where there is no us. 

I am at this point now. 
I won't force myself to have space in your life because if you know my worth you'll create one for me. 

AFEH - spot on.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

CanadianGuy said:


> Sbrown, AFEH,
> 
> Thanks for your perspectives.
> 
> ...


Ok, well if you regularly help with the dishes then it sounds like you are doing your part to help around the house (you both work right). Next time you want to take her out and she doesn't want to go. Go without her. That way you get to watch the movie you want and eat the food you want. Don't come home too early. Enjoy yourself.


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## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

Sbrown said:


> Ok, well if you regularly help with the dishes then it sounds like you are doing your part to help around the house (you both work right). Next time you want to take her out and she doesn't want to go. Go without her. That way you get to watch the movie you want and eat the food you want. Don't come home too early. Enjoy yourself.


She'd be all too happy for me to do that. Because there is so many other pressing things for her to do.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

CanadianGuy said:


> She'd be all too happy for me to do that. Because there is so many other pressing things for her to do.



Let her do them. I would read up on the 180, read Married Mas Sex Life, and no more mr nice guy. Does your happiness depend on her? If not, get a hobby, practice the 180 and live a fun life.


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## GetTough (Jul 18, 2010)

Negotiate to go on a walk with you? SCREW THAT! In personal relationships a real man does not buy a woman's time, AT ALL. You do the dishes because you love her. She goes for walks with you because she loves you. The two are NOT linked and you should NOT allow her to link them.


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## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

Sbrown said:


> Let her do them. I would read up on the 180, read Married Mas Sex Life, and no more mr nice guy. Does your happiness depend on her? If not, get a hobby, practice the 180 and live a fun life.


Oh yes, have been reading like a mad man/angry jerk....

Does she read any relationship books? No she does not. 
I asked her the other day what she thinks men need. She had no clue...

MMSL is so good. I do have hobbies. She loves it when I leave to do them. That way she doesn't have to be concerned about anything to do with me. She would love me to do the 180.  But of course that can always backfire and she would tell me that she didn't think I cared about her blah blah blah...

I left out one of your questions. Yes we both work. She has been off for a month on vacation. Does she schedule us time. No. Have I asked. Yes. 

My eyes are opening wider and wider. 

Really what I think is she wants me to leave her. Why, because she doesn't want to look like the "bad" person in the relationship by initiating a divorce or separation. So she keeps treating me worse and worse just to find my breaking point.


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## GetTough (Jul 18, 2010)

CanadianGuy said:


> Oh yes, have been reading like a mad man/angry jerk....
> 
> Does she read any relationship books? No she does not.
> I asked her the other day what she thinks men need. She had no clue...
> ...


It may well be true. Divorce often turns into what I regard as the ultimate sh1t test (see definition in PUA forums). Often you have to man up by walking away, and usually, the sooner the better. She disrespects you to the point that you have to leave. The fact that you still want her while she is disrespecting you is unattractive.


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## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

Thanks Get Tough. I agree.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

CanadianGuy said:


> Oh yes, have been reading like a mad man/angry jerk....
> 
> Does she read any relationship books? No she does not.
> I asked her the other day what she thinks men need. She had no clue...
> ...


Two books for essential reading at times and in situations like these. Awareness: Amazon.co.uk: Anthony De Mello: Books will help you open your eyes even wider with a new consciousness and http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hold-Your-N...4400/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1346613764&sr=8-3 will help you establish and protect healthy boundaries.


Communication is really key in marriage. But often we’re a fool and take note of just the words our partner speaks. We think that’s “communication” and we’re doing well if we can get a conversation going, we can be articulate etc.

But the words a person speaks are actually only 20% of what they are communicating and even within that 20%, 50% of their words may well be lies and deceits.

We need to look beyond a person’s words to understand what they are “communicating” to us and to find out what the truth really is.


For example from what you’ve written it seems your wife is telling you she doesn’t respect you, doesn’t love you, that she has no appreciation for what you do and may even actually dislike you.


But you don’t seem to be hearing what she’s telling you. Or at least if you are hearing it, it hasn’t reached your consciousness but remains in your subconscious as “feelings”. If she were to actually tell you “CanadianGuy, I have no respect for you, whatever you do for me isn’t worth damn all, I don’t love you and I actually dislike you” then you’d probably stand in front of her with your mouth wide open in disbelief?


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

If you see any truth in the above, what to do?

Just confront your wife with it. Something like 

“Wife I can see I’ve been a fool. All this time I’ve been trying to improve our marriage you’ve been telling me by your actions and behaviours that you have no respect for me, that you do not appreciate what I do for you and my family, that you don’t love me and you’ve actually led me to conclude you really dislike me. 

I have now withdrawn any attempts to improve our relationship and hence our marriage. I am also withdrawing all loving actions that I do for you while I take time out and consider what is best for me to do.”.

And just see what she does, how she responds. You may want to leave her a note so she has time to contemplate her response. But meanwhile look up the 180 and think about enacting it.


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## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

:iagree:

That makes a great deal of sense to me as I have noticed what you point out here. It's hard to take after years of working for a good relationship only to realize that the compromises and concessions on my part only served to strengthen her disrespect and dislike of me. 

Sh*t tests and the like, such as the events of last night have become the norm rather than the exception. 

I have been used and throughly controlled. I will take the above advice.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Your wife's behavior stinks like resentment to the point where maybe she doesn't "like" you right now.

One can get all wrapped up in doing the dishes, paying the bills, being the "responsible" one, while the other spouse is all about just having fun (or so it seems from their end) and it can seem very skewed from your side of it. 

But that's what resentment can look like. 
For me, it certainly did.

She has to like you again, then fall in love with you again.


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## ajb3313 (Sep 5, 2012)

Have you considered that she doesn't enjoy going on walks?

When I was a kid, my dad was big into auto racing and I wasn't at all. But he was relentless about going to the track to watch cars, going to old car shows, and stuff like that. I hated it. It was boring, I didn't like the noises or the smells. The whole thing was just not my cup of tea and I always felt resentment each time I'd be asked about going to one of these events. It was obvious I didn't enjoy myself, so why try and force me to like what you like instead of working to meet in the middle?

Maybe going for walks around the neighborhood are her auto racing. By continually insisting that she go on these walks with you, you're only agitating her more. Just the way you described it, it sounds like these walks are something _you_ really value. It's nice that you want to include her, but it doesn't sound like she wants to be. So try something else. 

And, as others have said, you should have helped with the damn dishes.


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## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

ajb3313 said:


> Have you considered that she doesn't enjoy going on walks?
> 
> When I was a kid, my dad was big into auto racing and I wasn't at all. But he was relentless about going to the track to watch cars, going to old car shows, and stuff like that. I hated it. It was boring, I didn't like the noises or the smells. The whole thing was just not my cup of tea and I always felt resentment each time I'd be asked about going to one of these events. It was obvious I didn't enjoy myself, so why try and force me to like what you like instead of working to meet in the middle?
> 
> ...


Perhaps she doesn't enjoy them. I'll ask. She had agreed to go on these walks with me over a month ago. There were no conditions to these walks other than we would spend time together. ie- if I helped more around the house she would go on them. Also I had spent the day doing other things around the house. 

Others have also said in this thread that in no way should I have agreed to help with the dishes. However if she would have said "okay l coming, these dishes can wait" then I would have been all over the dishes when we got back and most likely said to her that I would finish them up. I was treated as an inconvenience to her priorities and agenda. It's not like I'm springing this on her. She agreed to go on walks with me in the evening and has so far declined more often than not on her commitment. I'm making an effort to place importance on togetherness. A walk takes us away from the details/distractions of the house etc. so we can focus on each other. Is that a bad idea? 

We spoke about it again the other night before she went on a walk with me. I told her about how I felt and I think she understood. But put pressure on me to tell me that she wanted me to go. Really? 

I feel I already deal with rejection on an intimate level more than I should and now she's rejecting me/us again to go on a walk? 

I often wonder what life would be like if I didn't have to deal with the inner and outer personal turmoil of her rejection all the time.


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## ajb3313 (Sep 5, 2012)

CanadianGuy said:


> Perhaps she doesn't enjoy them. I'll ask. She had agreed to go on these walks with me over a month ago. There were no conditions to these walks other than we would spend time together. ie- if I helped more around the house she would go on them. Also I had spent the day doing other things around the house.
> 
> Others have also said in this thread that in no way should I have agreed to help with the dishes. However if she would have said "okay l coming, these dishes can wait" then I would have been all over the dishes when we got back and most likely said to her that I would finish them up. I was treated as an inconvenience to her priorities and agenda. It's not like I'm springing this on her. She agreed to go on walks with me in the evening and has so far declined more often than not on her commitment. I'm making an effort to place importance on togetherness. A walk takes us away from the details/distractions of the house etc. so we can focus on each other. Is that a bad idea?
> 
> ...


But if she doesn't like going, then it's likely she said yes just to take it off her plate for the moment. Back to my auto racing as a kid story: that's exactly what I did. I'd say yes, cave, and go just because it was less exhausting than the alternative.

Either way, you need to see that this is very petty. What about this walk was so special that it had to happen before the dishes were done? Nothing, right? So you have no reason to get mad at her for wanting to do them first. Granted, she doesn't have any particularly great reason to have to do the dishes at that exact moment, but you've got to choose which hills you want to die on, and waiting 15 minutes to finish up the dishes (which, in this case, you'd have been helping with and thus spending the time you want to spend with her) does not seem like a wise hill. 

I feel like the walks aren't the issue specifically, but they've become the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. If she's rejecting you in other ways, it makes sense. I'd just urge you to be a little more flexible and try as best you can to cater to her needs a bit (I'm not saying you aren't already doing that).


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## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

ajb3313 said:


> But if she doesn't like going, then it's likely she said yes just to take it off her plate for the moment. Back to my auto racing as a kid story: that's exactly what I did. I'd say yes, cave, and go just because it was less exhausting than the alternative.
> 
> Either way, you need to see that this is very petty. What about this walk was so special that it had to happen before the dishes were done? Nothing, right? So you have no reason to get mad at her for wanting to do them first. Granted, she doesn't have any particularly great reason to have to do the dishes at that exact moment, but you've got to choose which hills you want to die on, and waiting 15 minutes to finish up the dishes (which, in this case, you'd have been helping with and thus spending the time you want to spend with her) does not seem like a wise hill.
> 
> I feel like the walks aren't the issue specifically, but they've become the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. If she's rejecting you in other ways, it makes sense. I'd just urge you to be a little more flexible and try as best you can to cater to her needs a bit (I'm not saying you aren't already doing that).


Thanks for the reply. It would have been getting dark by the time the dishes were finished. I will ask if she'd rather do something else to spend time together and will offer a few alternatives. I liked your analogy about which hill to die on. It would take a lot more than that to kill me


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