# My wife might be having an affair at work



## L81R

New post: #227 http://talkaboutmarriage.com/19158713-post227.html 

My wife started working for a new company in July. When she first started the new job she mentioned a male co-worker a few times, how he was helping her a lot, friendly, etc. After a couple weeks she stopped mentioning him all together. 2 weeks later she was pregnant. We hadn't been using protection, but were also not actively trying to get pregnant. We had gone without protection for nearly 2 years. Usually having sex just once or twice a month, so not getting pregnant wasn't a surprise. Still, we went 2 years without getting pregnant then all of a sudden it happens? 

She noted that the co-worker was Persian. She isn't adventurous with food and never tries anything new or other cuisines. I looked at her bank statements and from September to now she has gone to Persian restaurants 6 times, on days when I know she goes for lunch between work hours. 

She's been dressing differently and doing her makeup more. She has said this is because she is working in a public place now rather than a building that was closed to the public entirely. She suggested a baby name that is similar to the man she works with. She suggested the name Byron, his name is pronounced by-on. Like I said, she has been going to Persian restaurants, but she has also been wanting to try different foods at home. She says she went out for lunch once with co-workers and realized she liked the food. 

Her company is almost all females and female dominated (pharmacy). Of 35 full time employees, 3-4 are males. What I know about the male co-worker is his name, he's around my wife's age and a single father. 

I have tried to check her phone and laptop, but she has been keeping them on her 24/7 or hiding them. She use to always keep her laptop beside our bed, now when she's at work I cannot find it anywhere. One day she took it to work with her, and would have no reason to use it. She sleeps with her phone under her pillow. When I have told her that I was going to clean out parts of the house, she gives an excuse for me not to rather than being happy it's getting done. Says she will do it. When I've asked to borrow her phone or laptop, I get lines like "it's dead, I have an alarm set that will be messed up, not working", etc. 

My wife has a 15 year old from a previous relationship, she got pregnant at 15. We have 3 kids together. We have been married for 9 years and married because she got pregnant unexpectedly. So getting pregnant on a whim by another man isn't exactly beneath her. 

On the other hand, she has never kept a lot of male friends - if any. I can't recall any male friends honestly. She is shy and doesn't like to be around my friends, mostly male. She'd rather hide out in our bedroom or office than visit with friends. So going around screwing another man would be out of character. We don't exactly have an amazing sex life, and never really have. I'm fine with it, but she didn't previously come off as the type to jump on another man when even in our prime she wasn't that way. 

Am I being stupid and paranoid here? Once they come out of my mouth, I can't take back the words "I want a paternity test". I'd rather not cross that bridge unless justified.

We have had ups and downs, what marriage hasn't, but I wouldn't say we have a bad marriage.


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## Spicy

All the classic signs of affair are there.
Time to put a VAR in her car.


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## Malaise

Spicy said:


> All the classic signs of affair are there.
> Time to put a VAR in her car.


Yep. 


*When I have told her that I was going to clean out parts of the house, she gives an excuse for me not to rather than being happy it's getting done. Says she will do it. *

What do you think she's afraid you'll discover?

Do it anyway, check her reaction.


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## L81R

Spicy said:


> All the classic signs of affair are there.
> Time to put a VAR in her car.


What is a VAR? Some sort of tracker? She works late sometimes and I have no proof that she really is staying at work. She works downtown though so walking places is easy and typical.


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## L81R

Malaise said:


> Yep.
> 
> 
> *When I have told her that I was going to clean out parts of the house, she gives an excuse for me not to rather than being happy it's getting done. Says she will do it. *
> 
> What do you think she's afraid you'll discover?
> 
> Do it anyway, check her reaction.


She had that reaction when I said I was going to organize and de-clutter the bedroom, filing cabinets and spare closet. When I did the basement, spare bedroom, kids rooms, garage, she didn't care. I have gone through all of those spaces, whether she wanted me to or not, and haven't found anything. I don't know what she could possibly be hiding. It makes me more paranoid wondering what the hell it is that she doesn't want me to physically find.


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## drifting on

Getting a sick feeling. OP, write down the dates you have had sex with your wife for as long as you can think back. @Spicy is correct, VAR in her car now. Workplace affairs are extremely difficult to sever, prepare yourself for the worst. Also, will it be noticeable if the baby is Persian, or are you both very similar to Persian? In other words if you are blue eyed, blonde haired, and American, if your baby is Japanese would it be very noticeable?


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## Malaise

L81R said:


> *She had that reaction when I said I was going to organize and de-clutter the bedroom, filing cabinets and spare closet*. When I did the basement, spare bedroom, kids rooms, garage, she didn't care. I have gone through all of those spaces, whether she wanted me to or not, and haven't found anything. I don't know what she could possibly be hiding. It makes me more paranoid wondering what the hell it is that she doesn't want me to physically find.


How long between your announcing and doing it?

You gave her time to move what she was hiding.

A VAR is a voice activated recorder. Put one in her car and in the home in a place she usually talks on the phone.


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## ABHale

Why don’t you just be honest with her. 

I believe you are having an affair. Because of this belief I will be dna test the baby when by-on is born.


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## Tatsuhiko

Her behavior is very suspicious. A lot of tragic stories in here start out like what you've told us so far. 

You should resist the temptation to confront her about it. If you do, she'll stop the affair or just hide it better. Then you'll never know if she's cheated, and you'll spend the rest of your life wondering. Your best bet is to hide the VAR (voice-activated recorder) in her car to capture any phone conversations she might be having with him. If there is a desktop computer at home that she uses in addition to the laptop, you can use a USB key logger that will capture keystrokes directly from the keyboard. 

You might also consider renting a car and following her at lunch. You'll then know if the "co-workers" she's having lunch with is actually just one co-worker. Worst case you'll see them engaged in intimate conversation at a table for two, or even kissing. Then you'll have your answer. At that point, you'll confront and demand a prenatal paternity test. 

It's an odd thing, but sometimes men discover that their wife who was "not really into sex" has done incredibly kinky things with someone they barely knew. It's a common theme in here.


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## sokillme

Oh God. Yes these are the hallmarks. Time to go into detective mode.


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## Lostinthought61

is she always on her phone ? do you have access to it?

i agree with others get a hold of a Voice Activated Recorder and put it in her car asap. 

BTW next time she brings up the name of the baby, and suggest a name similar to the male colleague remark "why that name, so it sounds closer to the father of the child" then watch her reaction.


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## Malaise

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html


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## arbitrator

*All of the classic signs of infidelity are there!

1. New job/company
2. Talking about a “new friend!”
3. Lack of sex and affection on the home front.
4. Sudden pregnancy
5. Baby names indicative of “his” heritage 
6. Exclusive dining at “Persian” restaurants, all without you there
7. Working overtime, odd, or long hours
8. Change of dressing and grooming habits

For the time being, VAR her car and continue to fastidiously investigate all of her actions. 

The “proof of the pudding” however, is going to be when that baby is born! You need to have it immediately DNA’d and if the genetics, in any way, excludes you, then you need to hand her a personal copy of the petition for divorce! 

If not sooner!

Get with a good seasoned family attorney and explore all of your property and custodial rights!

Edit: You might also check in with your MD to have you thoroughly tested for the presence of any latent Persian STD’s!*


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## L81R

drifting on said:


> Getting a sick feeling. OP, write down the dates you have had sex with your wife for as long as you can think back. @Spicy is correct, VAR in her car now. Workplace affairs are extremely difficult to sever, prepare yourself for the worst. Also, will it be noticeable if the baby is Persian, or are you both very similar to Persian? In other words if you are blue eyed, blonde haired, and American, if your baby is Japanese would it be very noticeable?


I have no idea what day(s) we had sex in July, or even last month. I know that 95% chance we only had sex on a Friday night/Saturday, only because my wife doesn't like to have sex before work and only wants to have sex when our kids are gone. My mother takes our kids one or two Friday/Saturdays a month, the same days that my step-son goes to his dad's. Knowing we probably had sex one or two Friday's or Saturdays a month doesn't get me very far. Actual dates, I have no idea. If we didn't have sex at all that month, then I'd have something but we did. 

I'm not sure how much she would talk in the car. She isn't much of a phone talker. In the morning she leaves with just enough time to get to work. She works the closing shift and stays late sometimes. When she first started the company was having a lot of time management problems and she was late almost every day. For the first week or two I was picking her up and dropping her off at work because he car we were searching for a new car for her. So I know she was staying there. She was on time for a while after that, then went back to being late some days. Sometimes up to 90 minutes late. I think that was once or twice. Whoever does the closing shift does have mandatory overtime when needed. 

I'm having a hard time finding the line between stating facts and defending my wife/the woman I married/the woman I thought I married. 

I don't know what he looks like. My wife said he's Persian, which from my understanding would make him from Iran/Afghanistan. Assuming he has dark hair, dark eyes and the olive skin, it may be obvious that the baby is his. Not necessarily though. My wife and I are both white, she has blonde hair and blue eyes, I have very dark brown (my wife calls it's "debatable black") and green eyes. Our 3 kids were born with black hair, that fell out and came back blonde. Two have brown eyes (as does my entire moms side). So off that bat? Maybe not. With me having dark hair, a dark haired baby isn't an immediate conviction. The skin colour though, we're both ghosts. 

I'd rather not get to that point...


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## RWB

L81R said:


> On the other hand, she has never kept a lot of male friends - if any. I can't recall any male friends honestly. She is shy and doesn't like to be around my friends, mostly male. She'd rather hide out in our bedroom or office than visit with friends. *So going around screwing another man would be out of character. *We don't exactly have an amazing sex life, and never really have. I'm fine with it, but she didn't previously come off as the type to jump on another man when even in our prime she wasn't that way.
> 
> Am I being stupid and paranoid here?


81,

Not stupid... just naive. 99% of us here at TAM probably said those words prior to finding out our Spouse was secretly cheating. Your summary of her "new" behavior/actions hits about 9.9 on the cheating richter scale. 

The Red Flags are waving like halftime on a Friday night. But....... do not soft confront at this point. Keep your trap shut and ears/eyes open.

EVIDENCE TIME!


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## L81R

Malaise said:


> How long between your announcing and doing it?
> 
> You gave her time to move what she was hiding.
> 
> A VAR is a voice activated recorder. Put one in her car and in the home in a place she usually talks on the phone.


Each time was a day or two. In hindsight, I should have looked right away. You are right that she had time to move whatever she was hiding. Or delete whatever she was hiding. It could be possible that she was hiding her computer in one of those places and moved it or cleared it off. I don't know what physical stuff she could otherwise want to hide. 

She doesn't talk on the phone much. I mostly hear her call my mom or her grandmother. When she does it's anywhere in the house she happens to be. The only place she could really "hide" would be the basement or garage. Those are the only places I wouldn't be able to hear her from, especially the garage, I wouldn't be able to surprise her easily. Maybe that's the spot to put one? Not expecting much...


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## MovingForward

L81R said:


> My wife started working for a new company in July. When she first started the new job she mentioned a male co-worker a few times, how he was helping her a lot, friendly, etc. After a couple weeks she stopped mentioning him all together. 2 weeks later she was pregnant. We hadn't been using protection, but were also not actively trying to get pregnant. We had gone without protection for nearly 2 years. Usually having sex just once or twice a month, so not getting pregnant wasn't a surprise. Still, we went 2 years without getting pregnant then all of a sudden it happens?
> 
> She noted that the co-worker was Persian. She isn't adventurous with food and never tries anything new or other cuisines. I looked at her bank statements and from September to now she has gone to Persian restaurants 6 times, on days when I know she goes for lunch between work hours.
> 
> She's been dressing differently and doing her makeup more. She has said this is because she is working in a public place now rather than a building that was closed to the public entirely. She suggested a baby name that is similar to the man she works with. She suggested the name Byron, his name is pronounced by-on. Like I said, she has been going to Persian restaurants, but she has also been wanting to try different foods at home. She says she went out for lunch once with co-workers and realized she liked the food.
> 
> Her company is almost all females and female dominated (pharmacy). Of 35 full time employees, 3-4 are males. What I know about the male co-worker is his name, he's around my wife's age and a single father.
> 
> I have tried to check her phone and laptop, but she has been keeping them on her 24/7 or hiding them. She use to always keep her laptop beside our bed, now when she's at work I cannot find it anywhere. One day she took it to work with her, and would have no reason to use it. She sleeps with her phone under her pillow. When I have told her that I was going to clean out parts of the house, she gives an excuse for me not to rather than being happy it's getting done. Says she will do it. When I've asked to borrow her phone or laptop, I get lines like "it's dead, I have an alarm set that will be messed up, not working", etc.
> 
> My wife has a 15 year old from a previous relationship, she got pregnant at 15. We have 3 kids together. We have been married for 9 years and married because she got pregnant unexpectedly. So getting pregnant on a whim by another man isn't exactly beneath her.
> 
> On the other hand, she has never kept a lot of male friends - if any. I can't recall any male friends honestly. She is shy and doesn't like to be around my friends, mostly male. She'd rather hide out in our bedroom or office than visit with friends. So going around screwing another man would be out of character. We don't exactly have an amazing sex life, and never really have. I'm fine with it, but she didn't previously come off as the type to jump on another man when even in our prime she wasn't that way.
> 
> Am I being stupid and paranoid here? Once they come out of my mouth, I can't take back the words "I want a paternity test". I'd rather not cross that bridge unless justified.
> 
> We have had ups and downs, what marriage hasn't, but I wouldn't say we have a bad marriage.


Ask her face to face and you may be able to see from her reaction, I did this and should have known from her reaction that I was correct!!! She looked shocked and broke down and tried to tell me I was wrong but she was not convincing really at all if i look back, i just had not wanted to be correct but i was.


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## L81R

ABHale said:


> Why don’t you just be honest with her.
> 
> I believe you are having an affair. Because of this belief I will be dna test the baby when by-on is born.


There is no coming back from accusing her of cheating, especially being pregnant with another man's baby. I said that to her when she got pregnant with our first child, and spent years paying for it. I didn't have any reason to say it, other than being surprised she was pregnant as it was unplanned and we had been together for a short amount of time. 

Other posters have made good comments that if I do confront her she might just hide the evidence more or end the affair and I'll never know. I don't want to destroy my family if I'm simply being paranoid.


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## Satya

L81R said:


> There is no coming back from accusing her of cheating, especially being pregnant with another man's baby. I said that to her when she got pregnant with our first child, and spent years paying for it. I didn't have any reason to say it, other than being surprised she was pregnant as it was unplanned and we had been together for a short amount of time.
> 
> Other posters have made good comments that if I do confront her she might just hide the evidence more or end the affair and I'll never know. I don't want to destroy my family if I'm simply being paranoid.


This is why you should feel no guilt in a paternity test. If you're wrong, you're wrong and can apologize.

Facts speak for themselves.


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## MattMatt

Don't tip your hand to her. Monitor carefully.

From your spelling I think you might be in the UK. If so, getting a DNA test on the baby is a little more complicated than it would be in the USA, for example.


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## L81R

Tatsuhiko said:


> Her behavior is very suspicious. A lot of tragic stories in here start out like what you've told us so far.
> 
> You should resist the temptation to confront her about it. If you do, she'll stop the affair or just hide it better. Then you'll never know if she's cheated, and you'll spend the rest of your life wondering. Your best bet is to hide the VAR (voice-activated recorder) in her car to capture any phone conversations she might be having with him. If there is a desktop computer at home that she uses in addition to the laptop, you can use a USB key logger that will capture keystrokes directly from the keyboard.
> 
> You might also consider renting a car and following her at lunch. You'll then know if the "co-workers" she's having lunch with is actually just one co-worker. Worst case you'll see them engaged in intimate conversation at a table for two, or even kissing. Then you'll have your answer. At that point, you'll confront and demand a prenatal paternity test.
> 
> It's an odd thing, but sometimes men discover that their wife who was "not really into sex" has done incredibly kinky things with someone they barely knew. It's a common theme in here.


It is a good point that confronting her about it might not be the best idea. I don't want to play detective for the rest of my life, but also don't want to end my marriage and break up my family without knowing for sure. I feel like I don't really have proof, just suspicions. I also, though, don't want to find out when that baby is born that it's not mine. 

I haven't considered following her at lunch. I have felt tempted to drive by her work while she in on lunch, because from the road you can see right into the staff room. If she was looking that way it would be very obvious though. It's possible I'd be able to see her get into a car with someone or walk to a restaurant with someone. That would probably do it for me. 

I don't know what would be worse. Her sleeping with another man, when she already won't have sex with me that often, or her doing a lot more with him than she's ever been willing to do with me. I'm trying not to think about that.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Hire a private detective.


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## L81R

Lostinthought61 said:


> is she always on her phone ? do you have access to it?
> 
> i agree with others get a hold of a Voice Activated Recorder and put it in her car asap.
> 
> BTW next time she brings up the name of the baby, and suggest a name similar to the male colleague remark "why that name, so it sounds closer to the father of the child" then watch her reaction.


She isn't on her phone all the time. She always as it on her but isn't usually glued to it. Some nights when she comes home from work she is glued to the phone, but that's few and far between. She usually comes home and spends a lot of time with our kids. I know her password for her phone, but never use it. She sleeps with it under her pillow or somewhere else. If I ask to use it she's either "using it" or "needs a second to check something". The paranoid part of me says she uses that time to clear anything I shouldn't see. I don't really like her using my phone or computer, but I'm not hiding anything. I use incognito sometimes, not hiding anything. So finding the balance is hard.


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## L81R

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Hire a private detective.


That seems a bit drastic, doesn't it? Is that something people actually do?


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## L81R

MattMatt said:


> Don't tip your hand to her. Monitor carefully.
> 
> From your spelling I think you might be in the UK. If so, getting a DNA test on the baby is a little more complicated than it would be in the USA, for example.


I'm Canadian, though we do have the same spellings as the UK. I don't know much about DNA testing, never having needed to do it. I know my wife had one done on my step-son, but that was court mandated. It could be harder than I'm anticipating, if needed.


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## Laurentium

L81R said:


> There is no coming back from accusing her of cheating, especially being pregnant with another man's baby. I said that to her when she got pregnant with our first child, and spent years paying for it. I didn't have any reason to say it, other than being surprised she was pregnant as it was unplanned and we had been together for a short amount of time.


Hmmm. It does seem significant that you said that once before, with what you describe as no reason.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

L81R said:


> That seems a bit drastic, doesn't it? Is that something people actually do?


Yes, people do that. You have enough red flags in your post to cause concern. Uncovering workplace affairs is difficult. But a good PI will catch them. Kissing over a table at a secluded lunch spot. Sneaking away in a car. They will provide photos. Downside is the cost.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

L81R said:


> I'm Canadian, though we do have the same spellings as the UK. I don't know much about DNA testing, never having needed to do it. I know my wife had one done on my step-son, but that was court mandated. It could be harder than I'm anticipating, if needed.


Send a swap to an ancestry place like 23andMe. If the child is paternally Persian and you are not well the test will show that clearly.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

L81R said:


> She isn't on her phone all the time. She always as it on her but isn't usually glued to it. Some nights when she comes home from work she is glued to the phone, but that's few and far between. She usually comes home and spends a lot of time with our kids. I know her password for her phone, but never use it. She sleeps with it under her pillow or somewhere else. If I ask to use it she's either "using it" or "needs a second to check something". The paranoid part of me says she uses that time to clear anything I shouldn't see. I don't really like her using my phone or computer, but I'm not hiding anything. I use incognito sometimes, not hiding anything. So finding the balance is hard.


Call the phone and just take it. If she asks why you called phone tell her you butt dialed. Then data dump phone to possibly retrieve any deleted messages/pics etc.


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## ButtPunch

OP

Do not tip your hat. Do not confront her without solid proof.

The PI is a good idea if you don't turn up anything soon.

The VAR in the car is an excellent idea.

Try the password on her phone. I suspect it has been changed.

Every thread that I have seen where the spouse sleeps with phone under 
pillow hasn't turned out well.

Please read the Standard Evidence Thread someone posted a link too.

I believe your wife is involved in some sort of affair by what you have posted.


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## L81R

Laurentium said:


> Hmmm. It does seem significant that you said that once before, with what you describe as no reason.


We had been dating for about 5 months when she got pregnant. The first 2 months we saw each other 2-3 times so it felt more like 3 months of dating. We were not having sex regularly, a bit more than we are now probably. It was very unexpected and unplanned, and she hid it from me for months (she was nervous and got more nervous the longer she hid it). She got pregnant in January and told me about it in April or May. I had suspicions and had a bad reaction. I don't have doubts anymore about the paternity. It was a result of me being an immature prick. If she had posted about me during that time period she probably would have had a 100% reaction of "dump him".


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## badmemory

Your wife is presenting more than enough red flags for you to be highly suspicious. Especially the phone under her pillow. What possible reason could she have for that except that she's hiding what's on it from you? But the red flags are circumstantial and you don't have enough to confront her. Be patient. If she's cheating, you can catch her.

The VAR in the car is a good idea, but since she works with him every day; not a sure thing. The key is her cell phone and lap top. Check your cell phone account records online and look for texts, calls, and data usage to one particular number. Look to see when she's making/receiving the phone calls. If it's right before and after work, then the VAR should catch the conversations. Think of creative ways to get to her phone and laptop. She's probably deleting texts on the go so I would go with a spyware app for her cell and a key logger app for her laptop. After you get the apps you just need about 30 minutes to install them. They're well hidden on the devices. She won't find them unless she's a tech genius. 

Do a google, Facebook and Linked-In search on the OM. If you know his name you can get all the information you need on him if you're methodical. A PI can also get it, if you'd rather go that route.

As far as DNA testing, you can do a prenatal test but of course your wife's not going to agree to that until you have solid evidence that she's cheating. Otherwise you can do simple DNA test post birth without her knowing. I'd also do one on your other children if the baby is not yours.

Good luck and keep posting. We have an expert here for every kind of monitoring you'll need.


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## L81R

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Send a swap to an ancestry place like 23andMe. If the child is paternally Persian and you are not well the test will show that clearly.


Hmm, I hadn't thought of that at all. That does mean waiting until the baby is born, and being paranoid about it, but that might happen regardless. My wife and I (and my step-son) did one of the ancestry tests, can't recall which brand, for fun. I have seen our results, so a strong portion from "Persia" would stand out. I suppose it's an option if it comes to that.


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## Primrose

Do you not have access to your phone bill online? Check her text/call log/data usage. 

I'm not sure if I read your original post correct or not. Did she conceive 2 weeks after beginning this job? Or two weeks after she stopped mentioning this man? I won't immediately jump on the paternity bandwagon as I conceived my first child the sole time I had sex in a particular month. As for my third [planned] child.. we had been trying for over a year. The one month we stopped trying, and only had sex 2-3 times, I conceived again. So it's a crapshoot when it comes to getting pregnant. 

She does exhibit other red flags, though, such as never wanting you on her phone. I sleep with my phone in the bed with us, as that's our sole alarm, but it's plugged into the wall. A lot of nights it ends up under my pillow, too, but I also do not guard it like a lifeline. My SO can use it anytime he'd like. If she will not let you on it, then you need to gain access into your phone bill. What you discover in there may be the very reason she always has an excuse as to why you cannot get on her phone.


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## drifting on

81

Shut your mouth, be nice, and act normal. Hire the PI to follow her at lunch and after work. Get your cell phone bill, match numbers, get the info from a PI about OM. Just gather evidence for now, do not confront. Sorry, my bad feeling just got much worse.


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## intuitionoramiwrong

Have you checked the phone bill?


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## Talker67

Satya said:


> This is why you should feel no guilt in a paternity test. If you're wrong, you're wrong and can apologize.
> 
> Facts speak for themselves.


you can secretly do the DNA test on the kid after it is born. If it is yours, you will be glad you did not accuse her falsely.

You CAN do the whole standard evidence gathering thing. Just do NOT act differently, or confront her about an affair, UNTIL you have solid evidence. If she IS cheating, the minute you accuse her any easy way for you to confirm your suspicion will be gone. She will buy a burner phone, delete every account and file she has stored anywhere. Instead, do the sherlock holmes thing on her.

I like the idea of borrowing a friends car, and hanging out across the street from that restaurant with binoculars and a camera. If she shows up with 5 co workers, you can let out a sigh of relief. 
If instead it is her and this one guy, being all frisky in the car and on the way into the restaurant...then you can dig deeper...maybe even hire a private investigator to prepare for the divorce.


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## Malaise

drifting on said:


> 81
> 
> Shut your mouth, be nice, and act normal. *Hire the PI *to follow her at lunch and after work. Get your cell phone bill, match numbers, get the info from a PI about OM. Just gather evidence for now, do not confront. Sorry, my bad feeling just got much worse.


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## L81R

badmemory said:


> Your wife is presenting more than enough red flags for you to be highly suspicious. Especially the phone under her pillow. What possible reason could she have for that except that she's hiding what's on it from you? But the red flags are circumstantial and you don't have enough to confront her. Be patient. If she's cheating, you can catch her.
> 
> The VAR in the car is a good idea, but since she works with him every day; not a sure thing. The key is her cell phone and lap top. Check your cell phone account records online and look for texts, calls, and data usage to one particular number. Think of creative ways to get to her phone and laptop. She's probably deleting texts on the go so I would go with a spyware app for her cell and a key logger app for her laptop. After you get the apps you just need about 30 minutes to install them. They're well hidden on the devices. She won't find them unless she's a tech genius.
> 
> Do a google, Facebook and Linked-In search on the OM. If you know his name you can get all the information you need on him if you're methodical. A PI can also get it, if you'd rather go that route.
> 
> As far as DNA testing, you can do a prenatal test but I wouldn't consider that until you have solid evidence that she's cheating. Otherwise you can do simple DNA test post birth without her knowing.
> 
> Good luck and keep posting.


In all of this, I am glad that I am having some confirmation that I'm not being crazy and paranoid without reason. 

Her reason for sleeping with her phone is in case she has an emergency call in the middle of the night. Her grandmother is 98 and she has an aunt who is 100 and she is very close to both. She keeps her phone on silent because she gets "annoyed" with all the notifications, and keeps her phone under her pillow so she can be woken up by a call. That is the reasoning I've gotten. She has also said she uses her phone before falling asleep and just falls asleep that way. And likes it there so she can easily reach it in the middle of the night. She wakes up VERY fast if I start feeling around for her phone. Says she is a light sleeper after having 3 kids, two of whom wake up 1,000,000 times a night. 

I don't have high hopes but I can try and put a recorder in her car. I don't know anything about them, though. I'll have to figure that out. I think I used one back in university for lectures, maybe. Her laptop is a mac, and that might be harder to track - if I can even get a hold of it. Her phone would be easier I think, since it's an Android and doesn't really delete info (from what I understand). 

I called her office directory this morning and got the mans full name. Knowing his first name helped a lot with that. I looked up her office directory online to see the spelling, so I have his first and last name. So my wife is wanting to use the name Byron for a boy, this *******s name is Bayon. That cannot be a coincidence. I don't want to drive myself crazy for no reason, but also don't want to sweep something under the rug.


----------



## ButtPunch

Did your wife sleep with her phone prior to meeting this guy?

Go online and look at the phone records.

It could show you who she is texting


----------



## Malaise

Do you know any of her co-workers ?

Any of them well enough to tell you office gossip?


----------



## TAM2013

Satya said:


> This is why you should feel no guilt in a paternity test. If you're wrong, you're wrong and can apologize.


Men shouldn't feel guilt for paternity tests anyway. Maternity was never in question. With easy DNA, paternity doesn't have to be either. An instant end to paternity fraud.

Not being able to have sex with who you want and pin the pregnancy on the man of your 'choice' is a small price to pay in the fight for gender equality, right?


----------



## L81R

Primrose said:


> Do you not have access to your phone bill online? Check her text/call log/data usage.
> 
> I'm not sure if I read your original post correct or not. Did she conceive 2 weeks after beginning this job? Or two weeks after she stopped mentioning this man? I won't immediately jump on the paternity bandwagon as I conceived my first child the sole time I had sex in a particular month. As for my third [planned] child.. we had been trying for over a year. The one month we stopped trying, and only had sex 2-3 times, I conceived again. So it's a crapshoot when it comes to getting pregnant.
> 
> She does exhibit other red flags, though, such as never wanting you on her phone. I sleep with my phone in the bed with us, as that's our sole alarm, but it's plugged into the wall. A lot of nights it ends up under my pillow, too, but I also do not guard it like a lifeline. My SO can use it anytime he'd like. If she will not let you on it, then you need to gain access into your phone bill. What you discover in there may be the very reason she always has an excuse as to why you cannot get on her phone.


I don't have access to our phone bills. Our plans are through my dads account, because he works for the company and it's free. Been that way for nearly a decade and we've never changed it. As far as I know, being in Canada I cannot see call records as they are considered confidential and not accessible. I can try and figure that out though. Working for the company, my dad may be able to access some more info than otherwise readily available. 

She started the job July 3rd, and right at the end of the month found out she was pregnant. About 4 weeks from starting the job, to a pregnancy test. I know having sex once a month can do it, or 100 times a month might not do it. Our first was unplanned. Our second was conceived on the first try, once that month but timed. Our third was planned and took close to a year. You are right that it is a crapshoot. I'm not relying on that at all.


----------



## badmemory

I also meant to mention, that if you can get her cell phone for an extended period you can run text recovery software to get to her deleted texts. There may come a time when you just have to demand she hand you her cell or take it from her, but that time hasn't come. You've got to have enough other evidence to go that route.


----------



## Malaise

ButtPunch said:


> *Did your wife sleep with her phone prior to meeting this guy?
> *
> Go online and look at the phone records.
> 
> It could show you who she is texting


Yep.


----------



## intuitionoramiwrong

Have you googled him? Does he have a wife?


----------



## Tatsuhiko

If she was pregnant a few weeks after meeting this guy, it seems unlikely that the baby is his. Yes, there are married women that are promiscuous, but I think you'd have already seen signs of this personality issue. A sleazy predator usually needs to woo a married woman for several months or even years before she'll spread her legs. If she did spread her legs this fast, then your wife is someone you don't know at all, and this is not her first rodeo. 

Does she even take her phone into the bathroom with her while taking a shower? The reason I ask is that if she does not take her phone with her, this might be a brief window of opportunity for you to have access to it. If you don't know her password, you might be able to obtain it by hiding a camera above the area where she uses her phone the most. You'll actually be able to record her typing her PIN. One TAM member hid a camera in a light fixture once and was able to get his wife's password that way.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

intuitionoramiwrong said:


> Have you googled him? Does he have a wife?


The suspected OM is a single father.


----------



## Rick Blaine

All the classic signs here of an affair. I've never read a story here where these signs were present and it was NOT an affair. In addition to a VAR, you should find a way to track her vehicle. Get a gps tracker so you know her whereabouts. 

Be stealth; don't show your cards. 

What will you do if you get confirmation that she is having an affair?


----------



## SunCMars

Malaise said:


> Yep.
> 
> 
> *When I have told her that I was going to clean out parts of the house, she gives an excuse for me not to rather than being happy it's getting done. Says she will do it. *
> 
> What do you think she's afraid you'll discover?
> 
> Do it anyway, check her reaction.


*No do not check her reaction ON ANYTHING.

Play dumb, play detective.
*

Be nonchalant, silent. Do not alarm her. If she thinks you are suspicious and snooping she will make it impossible to for you to find anything.
She took the laptop to work to show some photos or pictures, maybe to do some selfies. The laptop sounds key. I hope she does not have it password protected.
If she does you will need to install a hidden wireless camera behind where she sits, hoping to catch her PW keystrokes.
Turn your house upside down, do it meticuouosly, look under dressers, under mattresses, for the laptop. Check in closets, especially on any shelving [something placed on top of the laptop to conceal it].

I hope for your sake that nothing is amiss.


----------



## GuyInColorado

As others are telling you, you will know if something is going on by accessing the phone records. She has an Android phone so you will see a timestamp history of ALL her text messages. You're lucky she doesn't have an iPhone. 

Contact your father today and get access to the Call/SMS records. This is your best way to tell you if your gut is right. This is how I started putting the pieces together that my fiancee was lying to me.

However, she could be smart and using Kik or WhatsApp to chat. But I'm sure they talk on the phone, so his number should appear on the cell records at least a few times. Once you start seeing a pattern of numbers, type them in Facebook and 8/10 times they will show you who the person is.


----------



## SunCMars

L81R said:


> The skin color though, we're both ghosts.


Don't get me starred on being a white ghost. And some of the other bits and facts......hmm.

Just Sayin'

Saying to SCM knowing souls.

On her car.


See if you can upload a tracking app for her phone.


----------



## Spicy

Why is your sex life so infrequent?


----------



## JayDee7

check the phone bill, get a call log.
When she is asleep, like at 4 am, take the phone and go through it. Show up at her work and check the guy out. Wait outside her workplace at the time she is supposed to get out and see if he walks her to her car and see if there is any interaction between them. I know when I was younger and not married I would date people from places I worked and would walk them to their car for a short make out session. 

Do not bring it up, keep a close eye on the situation. Also, when the baby is born have a DNA test done, she does not even have to know about it.


----------



## Taxman

IF she uses a Mac, and you have other Apple equipment at your disposal, use "find my iphone" (I did not use it to detect infidelity, my wife was sitting in a food court, and a couple of kids just walked up and swiped it, mall security did nothing, however, I used the "find my iphone" feature and tracked the kid down to their after school job at a movie theater. The phone kept on beeping in the kid's pocket, but she refused to hand it over, so I went and got her manager. He took the phone from her, and fired her on the spot, then I called police and had her charged) that feature will detect where that Mac is at any one time. I have also used the feature when my wife has gotten lost.


----------



## Graywolf2

You can buy a DNA kit and almost any drug store. Amazon and WalMart sell them. All you do is swab the inside of your cheek and the kids then send it off to a lab. No matter what happens you need to do that in secret for your peace of mind. With a baby or a young child it's easy.


----------



## NickyT

I have to agree with the other responses. Any one of these behaviors (with the exception of the phone and laptop) could be explained innocently. I know when I first tried Indian food, I ate it every week for a few months. The dressing up...easily explained. The infatuation with a new culture, meh....but all of them together with the phone/laptop tells me that if she is not having an affair, she at least has a crush.

If she started the job in July and is pregnant, that would mean the affair started immediately after she started the job, right? I doubt that is the case, unless there were major problems in the marriage before she started. These things generally take a couple of months to heat up. Maybe I have the timing wrong, but it would have meant they met and jumped in bed within a matter of weeks, right? What I am saying is, if you need to investigate an affair do that before you jump into the paternity of the child. Investigation of an affair, if proved false, can be hidden or backed out of or explained. Accusing someone of getting pregnant by another child...nope.


----------



## SunCMars

L81R said:


> We had been dating for about 5 months when she got pregnant. The first 2 months we saw each other 2-3 times so it felt more like 3 months of dating. We were not having sex regularly, a bit more than we are now probably. It was very unexpected and unplanned, and she hid it from me for months (she was nervous and got more nervous the longer she hid it). She got pregnant in January and told me about it in April or May. I had suspicions and had a bad reaction. I don't have doubts anymore about the paternity. I*t was a result of me being an immature prick. If she had posted about me during that time period she probably would have had a 100% reaction of "dump him"*.


Thanks for your honesty.
This is a oft needed factor.

Wives 'usually' cheat on husbands with real character problems, or physical [sexual] problems. It gives them the 'needed' excuse to cross the boundary.
Cross the boundary, where the bounder is allowed to insert his phony sweet self into her mind.

Allowed to rub himself all over her body, all over her life. Mark his 'new' territory: with his scent, with his gooey spunk.
Picture that in your mind. 
Oh, my......

Again, I hope it is not true. *And at this point it is all conjecture.
*
And now you have a pregnant wife. Her 'possible' fooling around is soon going to 'cum' to a slippery halt.....very soon.
Till, next year, late next year.


----------



## SunCMars

If she has been cheating, she will still communicate with him, though. Once the new baby arrives, she will have her hands full, with an ,etc., of duties.


----------



## CantBelieveThis

Sleeps w phone under the pillow?? Wtf that's not normal, she is totally cheating, do not ever confront w/o undeniable evidence and never ever reveal your sources

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## SunCMars

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Hire a private detective.


Or ask a trusted friend or relative. The friend is a better idea. Someone she does not know, or someone in disguise.


----------



## Satya

Talker67 said:


> you can secretly do the DNA test on the kid after it is born. If it is yours, you will be glad you did not accuse her falsely.
> 
> You CAN do the whole standard evidence gathering thing. Just do NOT act differently, or confront her about an affair, UNTIL you have solid evidence. If she IS cheating, the minute you accuse her any easy way for you to confirm your suspicion will be gone. She will buy a burner phone, delete every account and file she has stored anywhere. Instead, do the sherlock holmes thing on her.
> 
> I like the idea of borrowing a friends car, and hanging out across the street from that restaurant with binoculars and a camera. If she shows up with 5 co workers, you can let out a sigh of relief.
> If instead it is her and this one guy, being all frisky in the car and on the way into the restaurant...then you can dig deeper...maybe even hire a private investigator to prepare for the divorce.


The problem with waiting until after birth is that he'd have to decide whether his name is going on the birth certificate or if he's going to wait until a paternity test result. If he waits she's going to be suspicious anyway and if he signs as the father (and turns out not to be) then he's trapped like a rat.

I don't disagree with the stealthy approach, I just don't think it realistic. If she has nothing to hide then she will hide _nothing._


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Satya said:


> The problem with waiting until after birth is that he'd have to decide whether his name is going on the birth certificate or if he's going to wait until a paternity test result. If he waits she's going to be suspicious anyway and if he signs as the father (and turns out not to be) then he's trapped like a rat.
> 
> I don't disagree with the stealthy approach, I just don't think it realistic. If she has nothing to hide then she will hide _nothing._


He does not have to sign his name on the dotted line as the father immediately. He can pull the hospital administration aside and tell them he is not certain of paternity and not to tell her anything. Some labs provide results in 12 hours. He can have the test done quickly then decide.


----------



## weightlifter

A few thoughts:

1) For heavens sake DO NOT accuse her.
a- if she is innocent, you have put a major torpedo in your marriage.
b- if guilty, even a dumb woman could shoot you down with what you have. We have seen this before. Rarely is anything new here.
2) Gather evidence. This is done to get ahead of the affair and figure out the logistics involved. You then catch it by conventional means once you know the when/wheres.
3) TONS of red flags BUT, the timing IS a bit fast.
4) If she asks you what is wrong. You have a stomach bug.


----------



## WonkyNinja

L81R said:


> I have no idea what day(s) we had sex in July, or even last month. I know that 95% chance we only had sex on a Friday night/Saturday, only because my wife doesn't like to have sex before work and only wants to have sex when our kids are gone. My mother takes our kids one or two Friday/Saturdays a month, the same days that my step-son goes to his dad's. Knowing we probably had sex one or two Friday's or Saturdays a month doesn't get me very far. Actual dates, I have no idea. If we didn't have sex at all that month, then I'd have something but we did.
> 
> *How about a phone call - "Mom. Can you remember which weekends in July you had the kids?". If you have it down to Fridays and Saturdays then it shouldn't be much of a guess. Did you go out together anywhere? If so then look through your bank records.*
> 
> I don't know what he looks like. My wife said he's Persian, which from my understanding would make him from Iran/Afghanistan. Assuming he has dark hair, dark eyes and the olive skin, it may be obvious that the baby is his. Not necessarily though. My wife and I are both white, she has blonde hair and blue eyes, I have very dark brown (my wife calls it's "debatable black") and green eyes. Our 3 kids were born with black hair, that fell out and came back blonde. Two have brown eyes (as does my entire moms side). So off that bat? Maybe not. With me having dark hair, a dark haired baby isn't an immediate conviction. The skin colour though, we're both ghosts.
> 
> I'd rather not get to that point...


If you have any suspicions then a simple DNA test will prove or disprove for you.


----------



## Sports Fan

Unfortunately you have all the red flag signals of an affair taking place. Indeed there are hundreds of stories here just like yours and all of ours that are very similiar. Unfortunately this will not end good.

You need to keep quiet. Hide a VAR in her car ASAP. You will be surprised at just how much people do talk on the phone especially to new affair partners. Bet the VAR uncovers something within 72 Hours. For heavens sake do not alert her to your suspicions.


----------



## doconiram

L81R said:


> I don't know what he looks like. My wife said he's Persian, which from my understanding would make him from Iran/Afghanistan. Assuming he has dark hair, dark eyes and the olive skin, it may be obvious that the baby is his. Not necessarily though. My wife and I are both white, she has blonde hair and blue eyes, I have very dark brown (my wife calls it's "debatable black") and green eyes. Our 3 kids were born with black hair, that fell out and came back blonde. *Two have brown eyes* (as does my entire moms side). QUOTE]
> 
> If I am reading this correctly, your wife has blue eyes and you have green eyes. You also say that 2 of your children with her have brown eyes.
> 
> Please use either bing or google and type this predicting baby's eye color
> 
> You should get an oversimplified chart that will put the odds of this outcome into a certain degree of perspective.
> 
> I would DNA the kids.... the ones you already have.
> 
> She doesn't need to know. You can do a simple cheek swab from you and each child then mail that in. It is well worth the money spent in your case. You can google home paternity tests or go to most any local drug store.
> 
> I really do wish you the best. Note, I am not an expert in genetics and the chart is overly simplified, but provides some perspective.
> 
> Good luck


----------



## WilliamM

My life is so different than anyone else's, I guess.

I would just hold out my hand, and my wife hands me her phone. I know her passcode. I know the password for her computer, and her email. I have an iPad which gets all her text messages when she gets them, and shows her phone calls.

Oh well. 

My wife is special. But even before our issues neither of us believed in keeping things from each other, so all that keeping secrets stuff would never have been tolerated. The idea that my phone is secret from my wife? No way. My computer is secret? Never. My email, secret? No.

And she has no reason to ever mistrust me. But I would never try to keep secrets. These devices enable secrecy way too much. Just crazy.

People should not accept that.

I actually send my wife email with all my passcodes and passwords on a periodic basis, just because.


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## chillymorn69

If she isn't cheating I'll eat my shoe!

Do not put your name on the birth certificate until a paternaty test.

Go consult a lawyer .


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## TX-SC

I would say you are looking at hard times ahead. I think I would just tell her of all of your concerns and request a DNA paternity test. You can try going all PI on her with a VAR and tracking, etc. but you may not catch her if she already knows you have concerns. You only have a few months to work with. Better get some stuff figured out soon. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## doconiram

L81R said:


> I don't know what he looks like. My wife said he's Persian, which from my understanding would make him from Iran/Afghanistan. Assuming he has dark hair, dark eyes and the olive skin, it may be obvious that the baby is his. Not necessarily though. My wife and I are both white, she has blonde hair and blue eyes, I have very dark brown (my wife calls it's "debatable black") and green eyes. Our 3 kids were born with black hair, that fell out and came back blonde. Two have brown eyes (as does my entire moms side). .


Trying to post a photo of the eye color chart I referenced above. DNA test the two kids you have with her that have brown eyes. You likely do not need to wait for the next one...

http://www.sittingaround.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/eyecolorpredict-1024x770.png


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## stephanielove

From the information in your OP, her actions do sound suspicious. I agree that you need to find some hard evidence before you even think about confronting her. For the evidence/ideas you currently have your wife can argue that she is simply having a working lunch with this person. 

The pregnancy has now put a stricter time limit on your actions, especially as you're not sure if the child is yours. 

More importantly you really need to ask her if she wants to carry on with the marriage as no relationship can survive if one person doesn't really want to be in it.

Also from your health point of view you should get tested for any STDs and if you have any (I hope you don't, by the way) then you have medical proof of her infidelity. 

I hope this helps.


----------



## Lostme

She can cause a fire, sleeping with that phone under her pillow it can get hot while it is smothered under the pillow. Why can't she put her phone on a night stand on her side of the bed, if she is such a light sleeper then she will wake up to it vibrating on the table.


----------



## L81R

ButtPunch said:


> Did your wife sleep with her phone prior to meeting this guy?
> 
> Go online and look at the phone records.
> 
> It could show you who she is texting


She hasn't always slept with her phone. She has for the last year, give or take. Her reasoning is that is when her grandmother was moved into a home, and between our two youngest she was being woken up a lot and uses her phone in the middle of the night. It does make me wonder, is she telling the truth or how long has this been going on.

I am looking into seeing the call records, but texting records are by court order only.


----------



## L81R

Malaise said:


> Do you know any of her co-workers ?
> 
> Any of them well enough to tell you office gossip?


I don't know any of her co-workers unfortunately. I don't even know anyone who knows anyone there. We don't have any mutual friends either.


----------



## L81R

TAM2013 said:


> Men shouldn't feel guilt for paternity tests anyway. Maternity was never in question. With easy DNA, paternity doesn't have to be either. An instant end to paternity fraud.
> 
> Not being able to have sex with who you want and pin the pregnancy on the man of your 'choice' is a small price to pay in the fight for gender equality, right?


I think it comes down more to trust. In a perfect world, the relationship would be such that the father wouldn't even consider his wife being pregnant by another man. This isn't something that I want to be thinking. I hate thinking it.


----------



## L81R

badmemory said:


> I also meant to mention, that if you can get her cell phone for an extended period you can run text recovery software to get to her deleted texts. There may come a time when you just have to demand she hand you her cell or take it from her, but that time hasn't come. You've got to have enough other evidence to go that route.


I am very tempted to simply demand her phone or just rip it from her hands. I am interested to see what she had deleted. Or maybe I really don't want to see that. She hasn't changed the password on her phone, so if I did have it I could see whatever. She could be clearing it often. Does factory resetting affect those programs? 

I am very tempted to just rip it from her hands and dig through it... It could put an easy stop to this. And if there is nothing there, then maybe I'm just paranoid.


----------



## L81R

intuitionoramiwrong said:


> Have you googled him? Does he have a wife?


According to my wife when she first started working there, he is a single father of one child around 2-4 years old. I tried to look him up on Facebook but didn't find anything at all. I tried Google but have only found work information. I don't know if that is supposed to make me feel better or worse, her sleeping with a single man vs married man. Only one marriage ruined, I suppose.


----------



## L81R

Tatsuhiko said:


> If she was pregnant a few weeks after meeting this guy, it seems unlikely that the baby is his. Yes, there are married women that are promiscuous, but I think you'd have already seen signs of this personality issue. A sleazy predator usually needs to woo a married woman for several months or even years before she'll spread her legs. If she did spread her legs this fast, then your wife is someone you don't know at all, and this is not her first rodeo.
> 
> Does she even take her phone into the bathroom with her while taking a shower? The reason I ask is that if she does not take her phone with her, this might be a brief window of opportunity for you to have access to it. If you don't know her password, you might be able to obtain it by hiding a camera above the area where she uses her phone the most. You'll actually be able to record her typing her PIN. One TAM member hid a camera in a light fixture once and was able to get his wife's password that way.


It may be a stretch to suspect that the baby isn't mine. That would mean that she met another man, and have sex with him within two weeks. Unless she was already sleeping with someone else, and it's not the co-worker at all. For all I know she is sleeping with a group of men or going half a block away to a strip club. Paranoia is getting worse. I don't know what's worse. Her immediately whoring around with another man, or her having real feelings for another man ongoing for months. 

My wife never showers, she always has a bath. She always takes her phone and uses it while in the bath. Even when we are in the car together, and she has to get out for a minute (like to run a child into school, or get milk from a corner store) she takes her phone. Even if her phone was plugged in, she unplugs it and takes it. If we both go in together, she doesn't take it. I've asked to borrow it while she runs in and she "can't find it" or "forgot it". Which brings me back to wanting to just rip it from her hands when she won't be expecting it.


----------



## L81R

Rick Blaine said:


> All the classic signs here of an affair. I've never read a story here where these signs were present and it was NOT an affair. In addition to a VAR, you should find a way to track her vehicle. Get a gps tracker so you know her whereabouts.
> 
> Be stealth; don't show your cards.
> 
> What will you do if you get confirmation that she is having an affair?


The overwhelming consensus is that there are a ton of red flags that mean only on thing. It almost feels stupid to waste time, energy, resources to this. If I find out that she has been having an affair, I would divorce her.


----------



## L81R

Spicy said:


> Why is your sex life so infrequent?


It has always been this way. It would be more of a warning sign if it came on more recently. It's our normal. My wife doesn't have a high sex drive. It use to bother me, but honestly, I stopped caring about it years ago. Our sex life if the least of my concerns right now. We have sex once or twice a month, it's decent sex and I'm fine with it. My drive has gone down a lot. Part of our problem is that my wife won't have sex when the kids are home because she cannot relax, which equals no enjoyment at all for her. She barely enjoys it as it is, kids being home works against me. Least of my concerns though.


----------



## L81R

JayDee7 said:


> check the phone bill, get a call log.
> When she is asleep, like at 4 am, take the phone and go through it. Show up at her work and check the guy out. Wait outside her workplace at the time she is supposed to get out and see if he walks her to her car and see if there is any interaction between them. I know when I was younger and not married I would date people from places I worked and would walk them to their car for a short make out session.
> 
> Do not bring it up, keep a close eye on the situation. Also, when the baby is born have a DNA test done, she does not even have to know about it.


I went to her work this evening when her co-workers start getting off. People at her office start getting off at 5:00, she gets off at 6:30. I wanted to see who came out and put a face to who is maybe ****ing my wife. I also wanted to see if I could see my wife with someone. I borrowed my dads car, which she wouldn't recognize unless looking for it. Of course though, it started snowing heavily and I couldn't see anything. She didn't get out of work though until 7:00. What was she doing for those 30 minutes? She said work was just backed up, and she does have mandatory overtime. 

I felt like a stalker. Still do.


----------



## L81R

Satya said:


> The problem with waiting until after birth is that he'd have to decide whether his name is going on the birth certificate or if he's going to wait until a paternity test result. If he waits she's going to be suspicious anyway and if he signs as the father (and turns out not to be) then he's trapped like a rat.
> 
> I don't disagree with the stealthy approach, I just don't think it realistic. If she has nothing to hide then she will hide _nothing._


That one might vary on location. With our youngest, we didn't register the birth until our son was 2 months old. For those two months, legally he didn't exist. It's all done online here, nothing at the hospital. At least that's one thing I don't have to worry about... if I decide to test. I will not be signing anything if I'm having doubts. I know that can get someone screwed over. 

You are right that if she had nothing to hide, she would hide nothing.


----------



## L81R

WonkyNinja said:


> How about a phone call - "Mom. Can you remember which weekends in July you had the kids?". If you have it down to Fridays and Saturdays then it shouldn't be much of a guess. Did you go out together anywhere? If so then look through your bank records. If you have any suspicions then a simple DNA test will prove or disprove for you.


I can see that info from my text history. My mother had our 3 kids July 8th and the 21st/22nd for an overnight. My step-son would have been at his dad's those weekends. I feel like saying we didn't have sex because we were doing a lot around the house and I had friends over that night, but I cannot recall for sure. Either way, she would have got pregnant around mid-July, because we found out she was pregnant the end of July, or maybe beginning of August. She's 18 weeks, I think. It's all a stretch and unless we didn't have sex at all, no way to prove anything. A DNA test will be the only thing if these suspicions don't die down.


----------



## L81R

doconiram said:


> Trying to post a photo of the eye color chart I referenced above. DNA test the two kids you have with her that have brown eyes. You likely do not need to wait for the next one...
> 
> http://www.sittingaround.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/eyecolorpredict-1024x770.png


I know that eye colour is more complicated than these charts. My father has blue eyes, my mom has brown eyes. I have green eyes. I'd carry a gene for brown and blue. I have never had doubts that my second and third child are not my own. I don't know if I'd ever be able to DNA test them. They ARE my kids. Nothing could change that and I wouldn't want anything to risk losing that.


----------



## Malaise

L81R said:


> My wife never showers, she always has a bath. She always takes her phone and uses it while in the bath. *Even when we are in the car together, and she has to get out for a minute (like to run a child into school, or get milk from a corner store) she takes her phone. Even if her phone was plugged in, she unplugs it and takes it. If we both go in together, she doesn't take it. I've asked to borrow it while she runs in and she "can't find it" or "forgot it". *Which brings me back to wanting to just rip it from her hands when she won't be expecting it.


Nothing suspicious there.

/sarc


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Sir, be vigilant. I would bet you a six pack of your favorite adult beverage that **** ain't right. The answer to the mystery is in her phone.


----------



## Satya

L81R said:


> My wife never showers, she always has a bath. She always takes her phone and uses it while in the bath. Even when we are in the car together, and she has to get out for a minute (like to run a child into school, or get milk from a corner store) she takes her phone. Even if her phone was plugged in, she unplugs it and takes it. If we both go in together, she doesn't take it. I've asked to borrow it while she runs in and she "can't find it" or "forgot it". Which brings me back to wanting to just rip it from her hands when she won't be expecting it.


She should not be having baths when pregnant. That raises your body temperature too much. 

Why can't you just ask her for her phone? Are you afraid of her?


----------



## Taxman

There are too many red flags to ignore or explain away. Does she not back up her phone? What type? Lots of tech people on this site that are able to advise you. Have you tried getting the phone when she is asleep? If you have the funds, hire a PI, they have been absolutely great in every case that I have seen.


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## Evinrude58

Guarding your phone. Dressing differently for work. Unexpkained missing time. Sudden pregnancy, when in all honesty you and your wife rarely if ever have sex, she keeps mentioning another man at work and then suddenly stops....

You probably don't even know if she's shaving her bush more often because you don't see her naked, right?

Get the phone and look. Don't give the damn thing back until you run deleted text software on it. If you can't do it, have someone on standby who can. It's not brain surgery.

You know it's unlikely she's pregnant by YOU, since you basically have a sexless marriage.

You say you will divorce her if she's having an affair. Well go file. She is. 

I'm sorry. The truth is you don't want to know the truth so you're not doing a thing to get it.

Again, take her phone and run deleted text software on it, among other things. Find out the truth. The truth will set you free one way or another.

What's she gonna do? Get mad and divorce you? That's what you're afraid of, and you're probably right. But living in fear is no way to live.


----------



## tech-novelist

Your story has all the hallmarks that we have seen far too many times.

I estimate there is a 99% probability she is cheating on you.

Sorry you are here.


----------



## Dyokemm

Sorry you have to be here OP.....

You seem to me to be suffering from what they called analysis paralysis in my leadership classes in the military.....

You are obviously concerned and worried.....and its equally obvious you want to do something to discover the truth....

But you seem paralyzed with overthinking what that might be....

Other posters have suggested excellent advice so far.....but your responses have been either lukewarm or questioning....

A VAR in her car is a great idea.....from what you have posted you W, if she is up to something is being VERY careful in hiding it....unlikely she would dare making a call in the house so a VAR there is unlikely to uncover anything.....

But alone in her car, she would be likely to reach out.....yeah, she would see him at work (IF he is OM), but there would be annoying bosses and co-workers liable to stray by.....so a VAR in the car is a good investigation technique.

Other have also mentioned a PI....you called that drastic.

Yet you are here pulling your hair out with worry, realizing your M might be on the line.

When you think about it in those terms, still seem drastic to you?......your family is on the line.

And lastly.....call records....get ahold of them ASAP.

The CONTENT of text messages is confidential without court orders, but a record of numbers called or texted should be available at anytime.

If you don’t get a paper bill with call records and for some reason lack access to your bill on the internet.....then reach out to your dad ASAP.....get those records and check who she has been calling and texting.

I think if you were not caught up in overthinking this situation you would already have gotten access to those records.....instead of resorting to the completely hit or miss technique of doing a quick drive by of her work.....

That is not a high probability effort.....it would take a full stake out to possibly detect something....

Another reason to consider the PI.

Good luck.


----------



## poida

MattMatt said:


> Don't tip your hand to her. Monitor carefully.
> 
> From your spelling I think you might be in the UK. If so, getting a DNA test on the baby is a little more complicated than it would be in the USA, for example.


Hey MattMatt, are you suggesting this for divorce related legal reasons?

If it isn't why wouldnt he just say "I think you are cheating on me, I'd like to look at your phone and if you don't let me I'm going to file for D". That's probably how I would do it now. Why mess about. if she is cheating it will be obvious. If she's worth keeping she will hand over the phone. It's that simple. OH, and test the kid when it comes.


----------



## MattMatt

poida said:


> Hey MattMatt, are you suggesting this for divorce related legal reasons?
> 
> If it isn't why wouldnt he just say "I think you are cheating on me, I'd like to look at your phone and if you don't let me I'm going to file for D". That's probably how I would do it now. Why mess about. if she is cheating it will be obvious. If she's worth keeping she will hand over the phone. It's that simple. OH, and test the kid when it comes.


Ideally, yes. But sometimes things are not that simple.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

As hard as it is, I think you should wait to confront. Continue to monitor in the hopes that she'll eventually get lazy and slip up. What if you get the phone from her and find nothing there except a Snapchat installation containing no messages? She'll claim she didn't even know it was installed. Or what if the messages you find are completely innocuous, because they're smart enough to avoid a paper trail? Where does that leave you, except to give her the moral high ground (possibly undeserved at that), that she'll use to shame you into backing off? At that point, any affair will be taken underground and hidden better than you can imagine. You really need to give the VAR a chance to work. While she might not be a phone person, her Persian friend might be. Often women in an affair are willing to do _anything_ their lover asks for, and phone calls are certainly an easy accommodation.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Do not confront until you have gathered all intel you need to determine she is cheating, which from your posts, she almost certainly is. Once you have all necessary information. Strike hard, and strike fast. Confront, serve, and expose. Do not let her know what is coming. The element of surprise is your best weapon in this situation. Be bold sir, not timid. Times like this call for strong actions.


----------



## drifting on

81

Do not confront your wife about cheating, it's a workplace affair which is much more difficult to expose. Being a workplace affair they can converse in person, electronics (work computer, work land line, work cell phone) which you can't check. Obviously this is going to have you being off at home with her, so just say work is really stressful right now. 

My wife had a workplace affair, I know what you are up against. You mentioned your wife works in a pharmacy, is this pharmacy open to the public? Your wife said he is a single father, do not believe what your wife says here. Much of what your wife says I would not place much faith in unfortunately. If you demand her phone to be handed over to you, that could backfire as well. The phone may have been cleared just prior to you demanding it that you didn't know about. 

Basically I've just painted a very bleak picture of your situation. I know because I lived through it. You are investigating, but you can't investigate fully because you can't get access to where you need to investigate, phone and work. What you will need to do is figure out the dates of when the children were at your moms. Then compare that to when the physician says your wife conceived. I would suggest creating a timeline and as things come back to your memory fill them in. What you can do is remind your wife of good times you had in the recent past. Such as when you think she may have conceived. She inadvertently may say things to help fill in your timeline. Just be sure to bring it up as a fond memory and not as you are seeking answers. 

I would also employ a PI if you can do so. I would at the very least pay a PI to get you information about OM. If you can search public records for marriages and divorces then search OM's name. Search for property tax records to see if you can get an address for OM. If you can't do these things I would get a PI to get you this information. Then I would hire the PI to follow OM for four days, not to follow your wife. If your wife and OM do meet you will know. Perhaps have OM followed on his days off to see if he is married or seeing someone. You need information on OM. 

You can pm me if you need any help. I'm sorry that I have a very bad feeling on this, but to forewarn you, I think it's much worse then you know.


----------



## Taxman

If you discover the cheating, I recommend having her served at work. That is a massive blow and wakes them up very very quickly. I had the opportunity to have a WW and her boss the OM served at work. She, of course was served her divorce. Him? That was very satisfying. He was feeding the WW inside stock tips, we had been doing the financial due diligence, when the name of a subsidiary of her company came up with a massive windfall of a trade. This trade should never have appeared. So we went to our version of the SEC. He was feeding her stock tips and they were sharing (among other things). The SEC suspended his license. The WW was served, and she also go an SEC summons. Her bank accounts were frozen. So, a recap: WW loses her marriage, her job, and all of her money (eventually, the insider trading got her sent to a P4W.) OM loses his job, his career, all of his money and he went to jail six months before her. (He also flipped on her, so her career was toast as well). Did I say satisfying?


----------



## SunCMars

weightlifter said:


> A few thoughts:
> 
> 1) For heavens sake DO NOT accuse her.
> a- if she is innocent, you have put a major torpedo in your marriage.
> b- if guilty, even a dumb woman could shoot you down with what you have. We have seen this before. Rarely is anything new here.
> 2) Gather evidence. This is done to get ahead of the affair and figure out the logistics involved. You then catch it by conventional means once you know the when/wheres.
> 3) TONS of red flags BUT, the timing IS a bit fast.
> 4) If she asks you what is wrong. You have a stomach bug.


It's about time you showed up and started lifting weights! :surprise:

Lifting weight off of OP's aching shoulders.

Oh, if push comes to shove. And the damage do bruise.
Make him the offer he cannot refuse.

The one that you do for a few dear TAMMER's
Never for a Martian.

The 'one' kept hush-em hush, a deed not perceived.... by the skimmers, missed by the rabble.
But, not by The Typist.

But only if needed.
Hopefully, not needed.

I do want to see, yet another sweet wife, kept true, remaining wise.
Not sharing her love, sharing her bodily glove. 
Not ever hearing, out of the blue, that heart wrenching surprise.

I have been taken, taken from you. And I enjoyed it.:frown2:


----------



## doconiram

L81R said:


> I know that eye colour is more complicated than these charts. My father has blue eyes, my mom has brown eyes. I have green eyes. I'd carry a gene for brown and blue. I have never had doubts that my second and third child are not my own. I don't know if I'd ever be able to DNA test them. They ARE my kids. Nothing could change that and I wouldn't want anything to risk losing that.



While that chart is overly simplistic, your reasoning is more like rationalizing. You can still be a father to the children with brown eyes if you chose to. The DNA test will simply provide some insight into your wife's potential infidelity. If the DNA test excludes you from being the father to the two with brown eyes that you already have, then you know she has a history of cheating on you and this is nothing new. The test tells you about your wife... you can still be dad to the kids you are raising.


----------



## SunCMars

L81R said:


> It has always been this way. It would be more of a warning sign if it came on more recently. It's our normal. My wife doesn't have a high sex drive. It use to bother me, but honestly, I stopped caring about it years ago. Our sex life if the least of my concerns right now. We have sex once or twice a month, it's decent sex and I'm fine with it. My drive has gone down a lot. Part of our problem is that my wife won't have sex when the kids are home because she cannot relax, which equals no enjoyment at all for her. She barely enjoys it as it is, kids being home works against me. Least of my concerns though.


More to think that an emotional affair is now in play.
But, who knows?

We have seen some wives who appeared sexless, not interested in sex at all, having multiple affairs, having an online presence on Craigslist, etc.

Don't be hasty. Once you start accusing her all hell will break loose. And you may never know the truth.
Be patient.

Remember the cat that sits patiently for hours outside the chipmunks hole. He gets the rascal.
Be the cat.


----------



## SunCMars

On the Var in the car proposition-

During breaks, or lunch or after work they could sit in her car and carry on.
The VAR would pick up that activity.

Spend the money, 60 to 70 bucks plus batteries. Best Buy sells Sony Models. Get a good one.
Don't be cheap!


----------



## ABHale

L81R said:


> I'm Canadian, though we do have the same spellings as the UK. I don't know much about DNA testing, never having needed to do it. I know my wife had one done on my step-son, but that was court mandated. It could be harder than I'm anticipating, if needed.


Why was this?

Did her first husband suspect her of cheating?


----------



## L81R

I looked through my wife’s phone and found ****ing nothing. Nada. Zip. 

She has texts with numerous co-workers, including the man I’ve suspected she’s having an affair with. All entirely work related and with a few exceptions all during work hours. All going back to July. 

I looked at her photos and found nothing other than pictures of our kids and dog. Internet history didn’t show anything pointing to an affair. Some forums, baby naming sites, recipes, online shopping, reddit. I looked up posts she made in forums and there was nothing pointing to her having an affair. The three I checked where a baby names site, she was asking for name suggestions and included the name Byron, but didn’t tie it to another man. She mentioned names I said I did and didn’t like and referred to her husband. Her profile goes back 7 years and I could see posts from all of that time. There wasn’t a lot of posts, under 10 every few years (when she would have been pregnant). The other two where pregnancy/baby type groups. One going back 9 years, the other 5 years. Too many posts to look at (over 1000 on one), but again, from what I read nothing suspicious. I read that one of the groups has a Facebook page associated with it, used her phone to search that, and didn’t find anything. Just comments she had made on other posts. I checked her emails, she has 5 different accounts on her phone, and found nothing there. Checked inbox, sent, drafts and deleted. She has him on Facebook, and other co-workers, but no Facebook messages from him. I looked at the suspected mans profile and didn’t see anything related to my wife, and for the record he appears to be a single father like my wife said. 

So WHAT THE **** is she hiding from me?!?!? Why is she guarding her phone so much? There was NOTHING there. Nothing. 

I didn’t find her laptop, and don’t know where else to look for that. I checked under the mattresses, like I saw suggested. 

At this point I feel like I'm just a paranoid a-hole.


----------



## L81R

ABHale said:


> Why was this?
> 
> Did her first husband suspect her of cheating?


I'm her first/only husband. She had her first child at 15. There was no cheating suspected, my wife initiated the paternity test to deal with a uncooperative coparent.


----------



## sokillme

L81R said:


> I looked through my wife’s phone and found ****ing nothing. Nada. Zip.
> 
> She has texts with numerous co-workers, including the man I’ve suspected she’s having an affair with. All entirely work related and with a few exceptions all during work hours. All going back to July.
> 
> I looked at her photos and found nothing other than pictures of our kids and dog. Internet history didn’t show anything pointing to an affair. Some forums, baby naming sites, recipes, online shopping, reddit. I looked up posts she made in forums and there was nothing pointing to her having an affair. The three I checked where a baby names site, she was asking for name suggestions and included the name Byron, but didn’t tie it to another man. She mentioned names I said I did and didn’t like and referred to her husband. Her profile goes back 7 years and I could see posts from all of that time. There wasn’t a lot of posts, under 10 every few years (when she would have been pregnant). The other two where pregnancy/baby type groups. One going back 9 years, the other 5 years. Too many posts to look at (over 1000 on one), but again, from what I read nothing suspicious. I read that one of the groups has a Facebook page associated with it, used her phone to search that, and didn’t find anything. Just comments she had made on other posts. I checked her emails, she has 5 different accounts on her phone, and found nothing there. Checked inbox, sent, drafts and deleted. She has him on Facebook, and other co-workers, but no Facebook messages from him. I looked at the suspected mans profile and didn’t see anything related to my wife, and for the record he appears to be a single father like my wife said.
> 
> So WHAT THE **** is she hiding from me?!?!? Why is she guarding her phone so much? There was NOTHING there. Nothing.
> 
> I didn’t find her laptop, and don’t know where else to look for that. I checked under the mattresses, like I saw suggested.
> 
> At this point I feel like I'm just a paranoid a-hole.


Check the apps for app usage. You can do that on iPhone if she has one. Also check to see if she delete any apps. She may not be using the apps you think to communicate with him. For instance words from friends is even one that is used a lot. Sometimes they may name the contact different like a girlfriends name to throw you off. So if you can figure out who she text the most check those texts.


----------



## L81R

sokillme said:


> Check the apps for app usage. You can do that on iPhone if she has one. Also check to see if she delete any apps. She may not be using the apps you think to communicate with him. For instance words from friends is even one that is used a lot. Sometimes they may name the contact different like a girlfriends name to throw you off. So if you can figure out who she text the most check those texts.


She doesn't have an iPhone. She has a Samsung S6. I don't know if that has the same options to track usage. I looked at her apps, after seeing someone here mention cheaters can use SnapChat, and a couple other apps for chatting. Aside from the standard built in apps, she had:

Amazon Shopping
My Calendar (looked like a fertility tracker)
Sync Pro (reddit)
Facebook
Messenger
MultiWindow Toggle
Nest (thermostat)
MIPC (baby monitor)
Kijiji (Canada’s Craigslist)
Banking app
Instagram 
Pinterest
Netflix
Fitness Pal

I read all of her text conversations. She had them to various co-workers, that were all work related and most during work hours. My parents and brother. A couple relatives. And a few friends. There was nothing in any of them. She didn't know I was going to be looking at her phone, so I'm at a loss right now and feel like I need to check myself into a mental house.


----------



## Rapture Shadow

VAR = Voice-activated Recorder . I advise against that though. Speak out your doubts and get done with it unless you want to observe your legal rights.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

One last thing to check on phone is under Google Play -> My Apps & Games -> Library 

Here will be apps that were installed but since removed. This is worth checking. Not unheard for cheaters to add an app to communicate then remove on a pre-arranged signal.

I know it sounds far fetched but I have seen it done before. One other thing to do is use something like Dr Fone to restore deleted messages. Others here have more experience on that and can guide you. 

The missing lap top. The fact that she talks about a guy at work and then hides her work laptop is a hug red flag. Install some discreet video cameras around the house. In a week you should be able to narrow where she is hiding the laptop. If you can log int the laptop great. If not remove the hard drive and have a tech do a dump on it. 

You are not crazy with your suspicions. Changing her dress, her new attention to make up, hiding laptop that use to lay around, talking about a 'friendly' Persian guy at work, suddenly eating Persian food, etc. These are all classic red flags. Not to mention the sudden pregnancy and the eerily similar baby name. Find that laptop. Have her watched at work at lunchtime. Something is not right here. I hope I am wrong. On this forum by the time people post here we are usually right. i wish you teh best.


----------



## sandcastle

This is going to be a horrific 9 months.


----------



## drifting on

81

My wife had the workplace affair for six months, you are exactly where I was at. I can tell you that looking at her phone is of no use unless you can get into her work email. I'm guessing you can't. With the lap top she has probably accessed her work email, this would be why she hides it. My wife and OM were very good at not using technology when at home, this may be what you are facing here. In two and a half years I finally found one email containing four words, are you still enjoying. With that I was finally able to break her into a confession. 

All of their meetings were at work, lunches, or meeting off campus. Ways I had no way of checking. You can sit outside her employment and still find nothing. It's all behind closed doors. The key for you is the laptop. Watch for her to use it then when she goes to put it away walk in on her. Keep doing this each time she goes to hide it. Then tell her you need to use it if she keeps moving it. Do not accept no for an answer, you demand that you use it. Do not tell her anything except you need to get a Christmas gift. Tell her your phone is acting up, tell her you need the computer as the website is best viewed by a desktop. Just get that computer.


----------



## doconiram

How did you get access to her phone?

Did she set you up to see a "scrubbed" phone based on your actions at home?


----------



## Muniesa

Hang in there bro. Plenty of us going or went through this ****. 

If there was any justice these kind of women would be held legally accountable for emotional and psychological damage they cause. 

Sent from my MI MAX 2 using Tapatalk


----------



## smi11ie

Trust your spidey-senses...they are tingling all over and, in reading your story, mine are aswell. It sounds to me like she is trying to dominate you. That's not going to work though, because I am sure you will split if that happens. If there was nothing going on then you would feel nothing. Cheaters dont like getting caught. In fact some will go to phychotic extremes to avoid getting caught....even if they know that thay are a suspect.....it just adds to the excitement somehow. I would emphasise the sound of your own name when speaking to her. By that I mean say "I"" or your "name" with importance and authority. This will make it far harder for her to bs you. Stay cool and authoratative and watch her squirm...bz she will.


----------



## Malaise

doconiram said:


> How did you get access to her phone?
> 
> *Did she set you up to see a "scrubbed" phone based on your actions at home*?


Nice point.

If she was suspicious this could be a way to throw you off.

How did you suddenly get access to the phone?

After this would you ever think to check the phone again?


----------



## L81R

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> One last thing to check on phone is under Google Play -> My Apps & Games -> Library
> 
> Here will be apps that were installed but since removed. This is worth checking. Not unheard for cheaters to add an app to communicate then remove on a pre-arranged signal.
> 
> I know it sounds far fetched but I have seen it done before. One other thing to do is use something like Dr Fone to restore deleted messages. Others here have more experience on that and can guide you.
> 
> The missing lap top. The fact that she talks about a guy at work and then hides her work laptop is a hug red flag. Install some discreet video cameras around the house. In a week you should be able to narrow where she is hiding the laptop. If you can log int the laptop great. If not remove the hard drive and have a tech do a dump on it.
> 
> You are not crazy with your suspicions. Changing her dress, her new attention to make up, hiding laptop that use to lay around, talking about a 'friendly' Persian guy at work, suddenly eating Persian food, etc. These are all classic red flags. Not to mention the sudden pregnancy and the eerily similar baby name. Find that laptop. Have her watched at work at lunchtime. Something is not right here. I hope I am wrong. On this forum by the time people post here we are usually right. i wish you teh best.


Thank you for the advice. I am going to try and see if she has any recently deleted apps, and see if I can use the phone program to restore deleted messages. Her laptop password has been the same for a long time, so it should still be the same. She has let me use it semi-recently, but watched me like a hawk when I was on it and wouldn't fall asleep until I gave it back to her. 

Had a crappy day and today just feeling like I should throw in the towel and be done with it.


----------



## L81R

drifting on said:


> 81
> 
> My wife had the workplace affair for six months, you are exactly where I was at. I can tell you that looking at her phone is of no use unless you can get into her work email. I'm guessing you can't. With the lap top she has probably accessed her work email, this would be why she hides it. My wife and OM were very good at not using technology when at home, this may be what you are facing here. In two and a half years I finally found one email containing four words, are you still enjoying. With that I was finally able to break her into a confession.
> 
> All of their meetings were at work, lunches, or meeting off campus. Ways I had no way of checking. You can sit outside her employment and still find nothing. It's all behind closed doors. The key for you is the laptop. Watch for her to use it then when she goes to put it away walk in on her. Keep doing this each time she goes to hide it. Then tell her you need to use it if she keeps moving it. Do not accept no for an answer, you demand that you use it. Do not tell her anything except you need to get a Christmas gift. Tell her your phone is acting up, tell her you need the computer as the website is best viewed by a desktop. Just get that computer.


Her work email was on her phone, however I didn't see anything at all in the sent or inbox folders. It was all work related and almost all during work hours. You are right that there are so many times they can be together and ways they can communicate, that I might never have an answer. With all the red flags, maybe it's time to give up. Just tell her that I know she is having an affair.


----------



## L81R

doconiram said:


> How did you get access to her phone?
> 
> Did she set you up to see a "scrubbed" phone based on your actions at home?


I took her car keys after she had unlocked the car and put her things in the car, leaving the keys inside as she always does. She thought she lost them, which wouldn’t the first time - or second. I dropped her off at work, her phone still locked in her car in our garage. The FIRST thing she did when she got home was go get her phone. When I picked her up the first thing I send to her was “I want to talk to you about something” and that I wanted to wait until we got home because we had 2 kids in the car. She was nervous the whole way home. I did have something to talk to her about, but it was completely unrelated to her sleeping around. She seemed relived. I don't think she was planning on me seeing her phone. I haven't said or done anything to give her a warning sign. Not that I know of at least.


----------



## L81R

Malaise said:


> Nice point.
> 
> If she was suspicious this could be a way to throw you off.
> 
> How did you suddenly get access to the phone?
> 
> After this would you ever think to check the phone again?


Quoting from above: "I took her car keys after she had unlocked the car and put her things in the car, leaving the keys inside as she always does. She thought she lost them, which wouldn’t the first time - or second. I dropped her off at work, her phone still locked in her car in our garage. The FIRST thing she did when she got home was go get her phone. When I picked her up the first thing I send to her was “I want to talk to you about something” and that I wanted to wait until we got home because we had 2 kids in the car. She was nervous the whole way home. I did have something to talk to her about, but it was completely unrelated to her sleeping around. She seemed relived. I haven't said or done anything that I know of to give her a warning sign. That I know of."

I don't know. Part of me wants to look for deleted apps, deleted messages, things she missed deleting later. But the other part of me says F it. I'm never going to figure it out and there are enough warning signs. I wasted a lot of time looking through her phone and the house, to find nothing. I either won't find it, or I'm f'ing crazy.


----------



## Marc878

Ply her with a lot of wine. Then get that PC after she's asleep


----------



## Marc878

L81R said:


> Quoting from above: "I took her car keys after she had unlocked the car and put her things in the car, leaving the keys inside as she always does. She thought she lost them, which wouldn’t the first time - or second. I dropped her off at work, her phone still locked in her car in our garage. The FIRST thing she did when she got home was go get her phone. When I picked her up the first thing I send to her was “I want to talk to you about something” and that I wanted to wait until we got home because we had 2 kids in the car. She was nervous the whole way home. I did have something to talk to her about, but it was completely unrelated to her sleeping around. She seemed relived. I haven't said or done anything that I know of to give her a warning sign. That I know of."
> 
> I don't know. Part of me wants to look for deleted apps, deleted messages, things she missed deleting later. But the other part of me says F it. I'm never going to figure it out and there are enough warning signs. I wasted a lot of time looking through her phone and the house, to find nothing. I either won't find it, or I'm f'ing crazy.


You are the type that has to see it to believe it. Or you'll just keep going along.

Keep digging and go all out. Quit half assing around. Var in her car etc


----------



## Tobyboy

Did you check in her car(trunk)? Maybe she has a burner phone? Those are easy to hide(from what I’ve read....hidden in tampon boxes, food pantry, places you least expect) Oh, what’s with all the email accounts?


----------



## Malaise

L81R said:


> Her work email was on her phone, however I didn't see anything at all in the sent or inbox folders. It was all work related and almost all during work hours. You are right that there are so many times they can be together and ways they can communicate, that I might never have an answer. With all the red flags, maybe it's time to give up. Just tell her that I know she is having an affair.


They can just talk at work, they don't need no stinkin' phones.


----------



## smi11ie

" Just tell her that I know she is having an affair. "

This is a good idea, however, it will fail unless you know how to do it. You said she is watching me like a hawk.....you should not allow this.....she is trying to dominate you....do not let her....trust yourself. I would tell her that you know she is having an affair and that you trust your own instincts.....If she protests or lashes out just walk away. Do not rise up just bz she is a liar. It's her own deceipt that is making her feel stressed....you can hear deceipt in someone's voice. If someone is too sweet or too sour then they are decieving you.


----------



## Satya

If she's carrying on the affair on work equipment, that's highly likely a violation of the company's acceptable use policy. This is time she is taking out of work to further an affair. 

This is one option, but you need balls... 

You could contact the company ISO and say you believe she is misusing company equipment for personal use, security will put a freeze on her phone/laptop and examine all of her emails. Simultaneously contact HR and the board of directors and say the same. She'll likely lose her job if they find anything (because they will HAVE to investigate if security is at risk) and so will the OM.

Don't do any of the above without consulting/securing a lawyer. 

That's about as nuclear as you could go at the source, but you'd need to be pretty confident that they are carrying on in work email. People here may say don't risk her job if you're divorcing, and part of me agrees, but I work in IS and misuse of company resources is extremely prevalent and extremely stupid because if they have decent security, they'll also have the means to audit everything. All they need to know is where they should be looking. 

I'd be sorely tempted to report it anonymously in fact. Talk about sending her a shock that will really make her sweat. But that's just me. You must do what you think is right.


----------



## SunCMars

You still do not know crap.

Keep digging. Do not make a 'paranoid' ass out of yourself by tooting your horn now.

Either find something hard core or keep on digging. 

She could be having an affair. But could is not a positive situation.
.................................................................................................................................
If you go the route of accusing her of an affair, you must pull off a huge bluff.
Tell her you know she is having an affair, that someone has come forward.

Do not ever say who told you and do not ever back down and tell her it is a bluff. 
Get her to reveal the whole thing. When she admits to inappropriate behavior, tell her that you know the whole story. Tell her she has one chance to make this right. If she continues to lie, the marriage is over.
...........................................................................................................................
Me, I would keep digging. Not enough information.

If I had sufficient proof, I would confront POSOM, and tell him to stay away from your wife....at work in front of others. Not threatening him, just telling him to stay away.
Embarrass the **** out of him.


----------



## manwithnoname

SunCMars said:


> You still do not know crap.
> 
> Keep digging. Do not make a 'paranoid' ass out of yourself by tooting your horn now.
> 
> Either find something hard core or keep on digging.
> 
> She could be having an affair. But could is not a positive situation.
> .................................................................................................................................
> If you go the route of accusing her of an affair, you must pull off a huge bluff.
> Tell her you know she is having an affair, that someone has come forward.
> 
> Do not ever say who told you and do not ever back down and tell her it is a bluff.
> Get her to reveal the whole thing. When she admits to inappropriate behavior, tell her that you know the whole story. Tell her she has one chance to make this right. If she continues to lie, the marriage is over.
> ...........................................................................................................................
> Me, I would keep digging. Not enough information.
> 
> If I had sufficient proof, I would confront POSOM, and tell him to stay away from your wife....at work in front of others. Not threatening him, just telling him to stay away.
> Embarrass the **** out of him.


When @SunCMars straight up offers advice that is not in the usual fun and entertaining "coded" form, you better believe he's trying to get a point across. @L81R , you best listen to this.


----------



## smi11ie

"I'd be sorely tempted to report it anonymously in fact. Talk about sending her a shock that will really make her sweat. But that's just me. You must do what you think is right." SATYA

Excellent suggestion. Anonymously rock the boat....stay beyond suspicion.....watch the fall out....she will slip up....GOTCHA.


----------



## RWB

81,

Assuming she is pregnant with your child, but you really need to DNA regardless. Personally, I think it should be done for all "fathers" as a matter of fact for all pregnancies, regardless of the circumstances. But that's another thread.

It appears that you are convinced something is/has been going on with your wife and co-worker. As TAM has pointed out the Flags are all there. However, you're search for the smoking gun is turning up snake-eyes. News flash... she's on to you. All the advise on evidence gathering that's been given to you here, is readily available to the cheater also. The VAR is the wild-card. 

Here's the rub. Affairs while intense, don't need continuous maintenance as in marriage. They can cool for months, sometimes years at a time. Doesn't mean their over. Affairs are one sided selfish candy-land that don't include, children, parents, sickness, bills, houses... Months can go by and one short "Hey, I was thinking about you!" text and they are off and running again. Understand?

Finally, let's play what if? Suppose your wife has been cheating with co-worker and has had a "come to Jesus" with her conscience and earnestly decides to end it for good and devote herself back to you and the marriage. Some here will say time to end the witch-hunt and be thankful for what you now have... rug sweep it.

WRONG!

An affair whether discovered or not will forever change the dynamics of marriage. 81 will be chasing his tale trying to understand what's the "problem" every time a major issue is encountered. You have admitted that you wonder if you are the crazy person. I've been in your shoes for years on end. It's no way to live. Having the Truth so close but so far away will eat away at your core.


----------



## toucheturtle

I can tell you whats up.she is getting ready to take flight.i would have a lawyer on hand and have current photos of my family.i would separate bank accounts and check to see she has a passport.i believe she is almost ready to live her fantasy.


----------



## TX-SC

Is there any potential that your wife is actually telling the truth about all of this? I tend to think you should trust your spouse until you have proof that she/he is no longer honest. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## TRy

L81R said:


> Part of me wants to look for deleted apps, deleted messages, things she missed deleting later. But the other part of me says F it. I'm never going to figure it out and there are enough warning signs. I wasted a lot of time looking through her phone and the house, to find nothing.


 Studies show that most cheating goes completely undetected by the spouse, who does not even have a hint at cheating. Sometimes the cheater even divorce their spouses for the affair partner without the spouse ever knowing the true reason that their spouse ended the marriage. Thus catching a cheater is far from a sure thing. I bring this up because the fact that you have so many “warning signs” may be all the evidence that you will ever find unless she makes a mistake in hiding the evidence; which data shows may not happen.

Continue to gather evidence, but do now stay in limbo forever as you wait to find evidence. Start deciding on the next step of what you want to do.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

L81R said:


> Quoting from above: "I took her car keys after she had unlocked the car and put her things in the car, leaving the keys inside as she always does. She thought she lost them, which wouldn’t the first time - or second. I dropped her off at work, her phone still locked in her car in our garage. The FIRST thing she did when she got home was go get her phone. When I picked her up the first thing I send to her was “I want to talk to you about something” and that I wanted to wait until we got home because we had 2 kids in the car. She was nervous the whole way home. I did have something to talk to her about, but it was completely unrelated to her sleeping around. She seemed relived. I haven't said or done anything that I know of to give her a warning sign. That I know of."
> 
> I don't know. Part of me wants to look for deleted apps, deleted messages, things she missed deleting later. But the other part of me says F it. I'm never going to figure it out and there are enough warning signs. I wasted a lot of time looking through her phone and the house, to find nothing. I either won't find it, or I'm f'ing crazy.


L81R, you need to try and and stay focused. Fact, she is hiding the laptop, she did not do so before and she gets nervous and hovers when you use in front of here. Fact, you don't know why. With all the red flags so far your mind will be eased if this is all innocuous. But your mind will also be eased if it is not innocuous and you discover that your fears were not unfounded and then you can deal with the situation with undeniable proof. 

Get a hold of that laptop and first thing is look at a history of websites visited on all the browsers installed. . The best thing to do is simply copy the entire hard drive to another hard drive. If she is not tech savvy perhaps install a high end software key logger.

You must act in all of this with nerves of steel. Never ever ask a question you don't already know the answer too. Stay calm and focused. When you get to the bottom of this you will in long run feel better. It;s your marriage. Being pro-active in protecting yourself and your family is th right thing ti do. 

Is your wife currently suspicious of your behavior?


----------



## MattMatt

Unless incognito mode is used, of course, then nothing will show up.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

MattMatt said:


> Unless incognito mode is used, of course, then nothing will show up.


Tru, and she would probably leave the laptop out in plain view. See, I have nothing to hide. 
Not ever cheater uses espionage level of sophistication to cover their tracks. Just brainstorming. Fact is she is hiding laptop. What is on it?


----------



## SunCMars

TX-SC said:


> Is there any potential that your wife is actually telling the truth about all of this? I tend to think you should trust your spouse until you have proof that she/he is no longer honest.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Yes.

Thank you.

She is pregnant. She is not going to be fooling around much longer, if at all during this period.
Unless.....
Keep digging. Expect sparse results.
Put the gol-dang VAR in her car. 
What'a Cheapskate.:surprise: :grin2:

During this period, any potential POSOM will mainly do the verbal exchange. Keep an eye out.
Immediately after pregnancy expect that potential POSOM to congratulate her. I suspect he might be a little nervous himself, if he has been fertilizing her garden. Expect calls when she is at home on maternity leave.


----------



## ButtPunch

Please don't confront your wife without evidence.


----------



## Sports Fan

Have you purchased and installed the VAR in her car yet? You are obviously dealing with one very smart and cunning cheater that knows how to cover her tracks well. You are not stupid or paranoid. There are enough red flags to burn the house down. VAR Sir is your best hope at this stage.


----------



## Talker67

L81R said:


> I read all of her text conversations. She had them to various co-workers, that were all work related and most during work hours. My parents and brother. A couple relatives. And a few friends. There was nothing in any of them. She didn't know I was going to be looking at her phone, so I'm at a loss right now and feel like I need to check myself into a mental house.


it is starting to sound like your gut feelings are entirely wrong.
I would try to put these fears out of your head. She is pregnant, so she will naturally be changing her normal routine, and acting differently due to fears and hormones....so maybe your gut is simply picking up on that.

Take some time off from all this. Maybe VAR the car, but that would be it unless something new triggers you again.


----------



## MattMatt

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Tru, and she would probably leave the laptop out in plain view. See, I have nothing to hide.
> Not ever cheater uses espionage level of sophistication to cover their tracks. Just brainstorming. Fact is she is hiding laptop. What is on it?


Either evidence of cheating or evidence of some illegal activity she doesn't want her husband to know about?


----------



## drifting on

The fact she was nervous about what you wanted to talk about comes at a very bad time. While most will think she is nervous because she couldn't get her phone and 81 had it is truly nothing. Her worry wasn't the cell phone, no that device is not being used for the affair. She was worried you found the lap top. Just imagine driving her home all nervous that 81 wants to talk and then getting home and the lap top sitting out in plain sight. She would have **** her pants and most likely confessed. Deman to use the lap top. Not charged, I'll charge it, let's go get it. Do not let her have it alone, you go with her to get it. Do not let her boot up the lap top, demand her password and tell her if she needs to, she can change it after you are done. 

Once you have the lap top, ask her if it's common to name your unborn child after a coworker. Exactly what do you think of this coworker that we should not name this child after family, either yours or her side? Do you like this coworker so much that you want to name a child after him? What exactly does that tell me as your husband? Are you that infatuated with this coworker that you want to name your baby after him? What does this mean? How involved are you two that we name our child after him? Tell me another male name that you work with, we can then name out child after him. Are you getting the picture here? 

Follow OM and confront him, tell him that someone contacted you advising they are having an affair. Tell him not to contact your wife, if he tells your wife you both met, you will take the evidence you were given to HR. Tell him you are planning to name the baby after the father, and that he is the father as your wife and you didn't have sex when she conceived. Tell him unless he tell you the truth now, you will forward the evidence to HR and let this play out until both are terminated. It's a bluff, but if you execute this right you just may get some answers or just a little bit more information then you had previously.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

I'm going to echo all of those who say to hold off on confronting. Yes, it's hard to sit there and act like everything is okay. If she's in an affair she will eventually make a mistake. It might just be one text sent from the wrong device. One phone call captured on the VAR. One day when she forgets to clear the browser history. One lunch date where you see them together. Just give it time. Your job is to really stay on top of it and monitor these things every day. If you ever have access to her phone again, run a program like Dr. Phone that retrieves deleted texts.


----------



## eric1

Dr Fone time


----------



## Chaparral

You have to have the phone records to see if the calls and texts have been deleted. You won’t get the texts but you may be able to see numbers texted to. Also it will give a list of calls.

She is acting very shady, why? Do you see her when she leaves and is she carrying her table? You may be able to see where she has been going by searching through google maps.


----------



## GusPolinski

ButtPunch said:


> Please don't confront your wife without evidence.


I’m thinking the proof will be be along in roughly 5 months.


----------



## weightlifter

SunCMars said:


> It's about time you showed up and started lifting weights! :surprise:
> 
> Lifting weight off of OP's aching shoulders.
> 
> Oh, if push comes to shove. And the damage do bruise.
> Make him the offer he cannot refuse.
> 
> The one that you do for a few dear TAMMER's
> Never for a Martian.
> 
> The 'one' kept hush-em hush, a deed not perceived.... by the skimmers, missed by the rabble.
> But, not by The Typist.
> 
> But only if needed.
> Hopefully, not needed.
> 
> I do want to see, yet another sweet wife, kept true, remaining wise.
> Not sharing her love, sharing her bodily glove.
> Not ever hearing, out of the blue, that heart wrenching surprise.
> 
> I have been taken, taken from you. And I enjoyed it.:frown2:


Sorry. My work life is over 75 hours. I have VERY little time compared to when I was more active. Also too many troll threads, especially Aug 2016 thru April 2017. I pop in from time to time.

Let me repeat something op. With what you have, even a dumb woman can shoot you down.

Going against said a few posts up, getting a cheating wife fired during a time of heightened probability of a divorce is fun but foolish. This is chess, not checkers. Let me pound this home: Strategy strategy strategy strategy strategy strategy strategy strategy strategy strategy strategy strategy strategy strategy strategy strategy strategy strategy!


----------



## re16

Do not confront. 

Continue to go after easy to get information. Here are 5 easy things to do:

1. Look thoroughly for a burner phone / go through the bedroom with a fine tooth comb (she was nervous about you doing this). Maybe she has new sexy underwear you haven't seen etc....
2. Run Dr. Fone and look at deleted messages on her phone. (I think the version to look is free... you will need phone for a couple of hours to do this).
3. Go through the laptop.
4. Get some sort of location service sharing going on her phone so you can see where she is going at lunch.
5. Get the VAR and use it in her car.

This could all be done relatively easily and might tell you what you need to know.

If all this yields nothing, re-evaluate.

Do not confront.


----------



## MattMatt

@L81R You could try this:-

Tell her you have seen reports of anti-virus programs being breached https://fossbytes.com/doubleagent-attack-antivirus-into-malware/

And as a result you have decided to check out your computer which showed up clean. 

Offer to check her laptop for her using some genuine resources that you will find here https://www.howtogeek.com/143263/how-to-test-your-antivirus-firewall-browser-and-software-security/

If she says "no" then


----------



## Talker67

since most phones nowadays have wifi....i wonder if you could just download a simple wifi signal scanner to your laptop, and then go room to room and FIND the burner phone if it is on. You will see a strong wifi signal in the room where it is, IF it is turned on.

Heck if she is in another room using it, once the phone is turned on you would also see it on the wifi scanner.


----------



## Chaparral

Your wife may be becoming over anxious because of he elderly relatives. Her anxiety levels could explain her phone attachment. She may be freaked out because she is thinking every call could be bad news. Discuss this with her. 

If you have checked her underwear drawer for new sexy lingerie you’ve never seen, she hasn’t changed personal grooming habits like waxing or shaving new areas, your sex lice such as it is hasn’t changed etc., she may not be cheating.
Google a list of signs wife is cheating and get back with us.

Regarding your limited sex life, get the book MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER.

Also, get the phone records from your dad now.


----------



## Chaparral

The reason the VAR is recommended in the car is that cheaters think
It is totally safe. They like to say good morning as soon as they leave for work. As soon as they leave work. They may not have much opportunity during work if it’s like my pharmacist. Before work, after work, during lunch. You might also look at a pen VAR at Amazon. Sony VARs are readily available for around $50 and work he best.
There are also a number of reasons like Christmas or kids for her to be hiding her tablet.
Investigate but be calm until you have proof. Do not mess up your family through paranoia. Btw, your marriage is worth more than money. Hire a PI.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Chaparral said:


> your sex lice .


 This was sad/funny because I was like "crabs" wth is he still doing in this marriage?' I went back looking for a post I missed.

I've misspelled things as well. I am making fun of myself.


----------



## Talker67

this is the sort of WiFi analyzer app i was thinking of:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/sto...gh33n0n?ocid=9nblggh33n0n_ORSEARCH_Bing&rtc=1

this one should be safe to download since it is from the microsoft store


----------



## ButtPunch

Chaparral said:


> They may not have much opportunity during work if it’s like my *pharmacist.*


She may be addicted to drugs.

That's what happened to my Pharmacist wife.

However....being pregnant I hope this isn't the case anymore.

Addicts quit for a while on their own when they have too however.


----------



## Chaparral

phillybeffandswiss said:


> This was sad/funny because I was like "crabs" wth is he still doing in this marriage?' I went back looking for a post I missed.
> 
> I've misspelled things as well. I am making fun of myself.


I just love auto correct!


----------



## L81R

I have had a VR in my wife’s car for the week. The only things I’ve “caught” are phone calls to various appointments and stores. With one phone call with the man in question, and it didn’t prove anything. The conversation was along the lines of:

My wife received a call. 
“Hey Bayon” - wife
“Morning, how are you” - man
“Pretty good. Tired but you know how it is.” - wife
“Rough night?” - man
“One sick kid and one teething. We were up all night so I’m quite tired.” - wife
“Sorry to hear that. Are you coming in today?” - man
“Yeah, I’ll be in at 10:00” - wife
“Would you be able to come in earlier? Like now? We’re swamped here.” - man
“Yeah, no problem. I can be there in 20.” - wife
“Awesome. Thanks.” - man
“Is there a lot in my tray?” - wife
“8 ??? and some refills.” - man
“Oh wow. Yuck. Okay I’ll be in shortly”. - wife
“I can stay late with you.” - man
“That’d be great.” - wife
“See you soon” - man
“See you soon. Bye.” - wife

Nothing. Like everything else, nothing convicting. At best I have proof of a work friendship, and proof that I’m a psychotic bastard. I want to tear apart every word and sentence, break it down and read between the lines for some tiny clue that she’s screwing him. 

I haven’t found where she hides her laptop while she’s at work, however I have had access to her laptop once over the week. She fell asleep watching a show on her laptop, which left it logged in because the show was playing. There wasn’t anything that I could find and her history hadn’t been cleared in a long time. I couldn’t find her work email, though I know she accesses it from home. 

I’m not finding anything. All I’m finding is how far I will go on a hunch, that is proving to be psychotic. I’m supposed to trust my wife, not “want” to find out she’s screwing another man. I should be happy that I’m not finding anything, but I’m not. It shouldn’t be hard to accept that she’s NOT cheating. That should be easy, she is my wife. 

The paranoid side of me reads into their conversation and thinks… Why does she have his number as a contact? Why is she talking about our kids? Why is he wondering about her night? Why is she happy that he’s staying late with her? Why is he offering to stay late? What are they really doing when “staying late”? Being realistic can explain it all. 

How does one just drop the paranoia and stop?


----------



## SpicyGinger

She's hiding her phone and laptop? RED FLAGS. RED FLAGS EVERYWHERE. You're not paranoid. She's shady.


----------



## SpicyGinger

buy a "tile" or download some sort of tracking device on the computer. when she is at work, locate the computer. You will either be able to snoop or you will find out she's taking it to work with her.


----------



## Malaise

L81R said:


> I have had a VR in my wife’s car for the week. The only things I’ve “caught” are phone calls to various appointments and stores. With one phone call with the man in question, and it didn’t prove anything. The conversation was along the lines of:
> 
> My wife received a call.
> “Hey Bayon” - wife
> “Morning, how are you” - man
> “Pretty good. Tired but you know how it is.” - wife
> “Rough night?” - man
> “One sick kid and one teething. We were up all night so I’m quite tired.” - wife
> “Sorry to hear that. Are you coming in today?” - man
> “Yeah, I’ll be in at 10:00” - wife
> “Would you be able to come in earlier? Like now? We’re swamped here.” - man
> “Yeah, no problem. I can be there in 20.” - wife
> “Awesome. Thanks.” - man
> “Is there a lot in my tray?” - wife
> “8 ??? and some refills.” - man
> “Oh wow. Yuck. Okay I’ll be in shortly”. - wife
> “I can stay late with you.” - man
> “That’d be great.” - wife
> “See you soon” - man
> “See you soon. Bye.” - wife
> 
> Nothing. Like everything else, nothing convicting. At best I have proof of a work friendship, and proof that I’m a psychotic bastard. I want to tear apart every word and sentence, break it down and read between the lines for some tiny clue that she’s screwing him.
> 
> I haven’t found where she hides her laptop while she’s at work, however I have had access to her laptop once over the week. She fell asleep watching a show on her laptop, which left it logged in because the show was playing. There wasn’t anything that I could find and her history hadn’t been cleared in a long time. I couldn’t find her work email, though I know she accesses it from home.
> 
> I’m not finding anything. All I’m finding is how far I will go on a hunch, that is proving to be psychotic. I’m supposed to trust my wife, not “want” to find out she’s screwing another man. I should be happy that I’m not finding anything, but I’m not. It shouldn’t be hard to accept that she’s NOT cheating. That should be easy, she is my wife.
> 
> The paranoid side of me reads into their conversation and thinks… Why does she have his number as a contact? Why is she talking about our kids? Why is he wondering about her night? Why is she happy that he’s staying late with her? Why is he offering to stay late? What are they really doing when “staying late”? Being realistic can explain it all.
> 
> How does one just drop the paranoia and stop?


Have you asked her why she chose the child's name ? I don't recall.


----------



## manwithnoname

L81R said:


> I have had a VR in my wife’s car for the week. The only things I’ve “caught” are phone calls to various appointments and stores. With one phone call with the man in question, and it didn’t prove anything. The conversation was along the lines of:
> 
> My wife received a call.
> “Hey Bayon” - wife
> “Morning, how are you” - man
> “Pretty good. Tired but you know how it is.” - wife
> “Rough night?” - man
> “One sick kid and one teething. We were up all night so I’m quite tired.” - wife
> “Sorry to hear that. Are you coming in today?” - man
> “Yeah, I’ll be in at 10:00” - wife
> “Would you be able to come in earlier? Like now? We’re swamped here.” - man
> “Yeah, no problem. I can be there in 20.” - wife
> “Awesome. Thanks.” - man
> “Is there a lot in my tray?” - wife
> “8 ??? and some refills.” - man
> “Oh wow. Yuck. Okay I’ll be in shortly”. - wife
> “I can stay late with you.” - man
> “That’d be great.” - wife
> “See you soon” - man
> “See you soon. Bye.” - wife
> 
> Nothing. Like everything else, nothing convicting. At best I have proof of a work friendship, and proof that I’m a psychotic bastard. I want to tear apart every word and sentence, break it down and read between the lines for some tiny clue that she’s screwing him.
> 
> I haven’t found where she hides her laptop while she’s at work, however I have had access to her laptop once over the week. She fell asleep watching a show on her laptop, which left it logged in because the show was playing. There wasn’t anything that I could find and her history hadn’t been cleared in a long time. I couldn’t find her work email, though I know she accesses it from home.
> 
> *I’m not finding anything. All I’m finding is how far I will go on a hunch, that is proving to be psychotic. I’m supposed to trust my wife, not “want” to find out she’s screwing another man. I should be happy that I’m not finding anything, but I’m not. It shouldn’t be hard to accept that she’s NOT cheating. That should be easy, she is my wife.
> *
> The paranoid side of me reads into their conversation and thinks… Why does she have his number as a contact? Why is she talking about our kids? Why is he wondering about her night? Why is she happy that he’s staying late with her? Why is he offering to stay late? What are they really doing when “staying late”? Being realistic can explain it all.
> 
> How does one just drop the paranoia and stop?





You are not happy you didn't find anything because your gut feeling is telling you something is up. 
Maybe she's on to your investigation and has seen your thread here. She would know you place a VAR, she could selectively clear certain things and leave others, to make it look like nothing has been deleted. Heck, she could be doing that regardless of whether she knows you're snooping or not, just in case you snoop.


----------



## sandcastle

L81R said:


> I have had a VR in my wife’s car for the week. The only things I’ve “caught” are phone calls to various appointments and stores. With one phone call with the man in question, and it didn’t prove anything. The conversation was along the lines of:
> 
> My wife received a call.
> “Hey Bayon” - wife
> “Morning, how are you” - man
> “Pretty good. Tired but you know how it is.” - wife
> “Rough night?” - man
> “One sick kid and one teething. We were up all night so I’m quite tired.” - wife
> “Sorry to hear that. Are you coming in today?” - man
> “Yeah, I’ll be in at 10:00” - wife
> “Would you be able to come in earlier? Like now? We’re swamped here.” - man
> “Yeah, no problem. I can be there in 20.” - wife
> “Awesome. Thanks.” - man
> “Is there a lot in my tray?” - wife
> “8 ??? and some refills.” - man
> “Oh wow. Yuck. Okay I’ll be in shortly”. - wife
> “I can stay late with you.” - man
> “That’d be great.” - wife
> “See you soon” - man
> “See you soon. Bye.” - wife
> 
> Nothing. Like everything else, nothing convicting. At best I have proof of a work friendship, and proof that I’m a psychotic bastard. I want to tear apart every word and sentence, break it down and read between the lines for some tiny clue that she’s screwing him.
> 
> I haven’t found where she hides her laptop while she’s at work, however I have had access to her laptop once over the week. She fell asleep watching a show on her laptop, which left it logged in because the show was playing. There wasn’t anything that I could find and her history hadn’t been cleared in a long time. I couldn’t find her work email, though I know she accesses it from home.
> 
> I’m not finding anything. All I’m finding is how far I will go on a hunch, that is proving to be psychotic. I’m supposed to trust my wife, not “want” to find out she’s screwing another man. I should be happy that I’m not finding anything, but I’m not. It shouldn’t be hard to accept that she’s NOT cheating. That should be easy, she is my wife.
> 
> The paranoid side of me reads into their conversation and thinks… Why does she have his number as a contact? Why is she talking about our kids? Why is he wondering about her night? Why is she happy that he’s staying late with her? Why is he offering to stay late? What are they really doing when “staying late”? Being realistic can explain it all.
> 
> How does one just drop the paranoia and stop?


You had a Var in the Car for 7 days and there is exactly one phonecall from the suspected father of your wife's child?

Who happens to be her superior?

WHO CARES if he has a crush on her.? That means she had sex and got pregnant within 2 weeks of meeting him?( I think I recall that fact correctly)

All males who ever worked with a female that never had a fleeting crush/tested the waters- post away!
If you ACTUALLY Think your wife is pregnant with another mans child- then pack up, and figure out the soonest possible way to DNA test that fetus.


----------



## Edmund

L81R said:


> I have had a VR in my wife’s car for the week. The only things I’ve “caught” are phone calls to various appointments and stores. With one phone call with the man in question, and it didn’t prove anything. The conversation was along the lines of:
> 
> 
> 
> My wife received a call.
> 
> “Hey Bayon” - wife
> 
> “Morning, how are you” - man
> 
> “Pretty good. Tired but you know how it is.” - wife
> 
> “Rough night?” - man
> 
> “One sick kid and one teething. We were up all night so I’m quite tired.” - wife
> 
> “Sorry to hear that. Are you coming in today?” - man
> 
> “Yeah, I’ll be in at 10:00” - wife
> 
> “Would you be able to come in earlier? Like now? We’re swamped here.” - man
> 
> “Yeah, no problem. I can be there in 20.” - wife
> 
> “Awesome. Thanks.” - man
> 
> “Is there a lot in my tray?” - wife
> 
> “8 ??? and some refills.” - man
> 
> “Oh wow. Yuck. Okay I’ll be in shortly”. - wife
> 
> “I can stay late with you.” - man
> 
> “That’d be great.” - wife
> 
> “See you soon” - man
> 
> “See you soon. Bye.” - wife
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing. Like everything else, nothing convicting. At best I have proof of a work friendship, and proof that I’m a psychotic bastard. I want to tear apart every word and sentence, break it down and read between the lines for some tiny clue that she’s screwing him.
> 
> 
> 
> I haven’t found where she hides her laptop while she’s at work, however I have had access to her laptop once over the week. She fell asleep watching a show on her laptop, which left it logged in because the show was playing. There wasn’t anything that I could find and her history hadn’t been cleared in a long time. I couldn’t find her work email, though I know she accesses it from home.
> 
> 
> 
> I’m not finding anything. All I’m finding is how far I will go on a hunch, that is proving to be psychotic. I’m supposed to trust my wife, not “want” to find out she’s screwing another man. I should be happy that I’m not finding anything, but I’m not. It shouldn’t be hard to accept that she’s NOT cheating. That should be easy, she is my wife.
> 
> 
> 
> The paranoid side of me reads into their conversation and thinks… Why does she have his number as a contact? Why is she talking about our kids? Why is he wondering about her night? Why is she happy that he’s staying late with her? Why is he offering to stay late? What are they really doing when “staying late”? Being realistic can explain it all.
> 
> 
> 
> How does one just drop the paranoia and stop?




Sounds innocent to me. I think you need to back off unless something else significant to what you have so far. You going to make yourself crazy looking for something that might not even be there.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## ButtPunch

Keep the VAR going for a few more weeks and if nothing turns up drop it for a while. 

She's pregnant and may have broke up with him.

Your suspicions may just be paranoia. 

Who knows?


----------



## drifting on

So OM came in early and offered to stay late with her. Time for you to call your wife at work, if she has to stay late you pop in for a visit.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Hiding laptop and OM super familiar. Hiding the laptop but falling asleep with it. Maybe she is on to your suspicions and pushed the relationship deep underground. Or maybe this is all a matter of coincidence. Interesting you did not find her email account on her laptop. In the past are you certain she checked email with it? Did she have more than one browser installed? I would continue to search for that laptop. Try in the boot of car. Does she walks out if the house with it and brings it back daily? Is she leaving at work? Boot of car? When you get that laptop you must data dump the drive. Unless she formats it it will leave traces of all activity. 



Hiding a laptop is a huge red flag. Her familiarity with work colleague along with the rest of the coincidences does not make you crazy. If she is on to you she could be using a burner phone and has left breadcrumbs to throw you off. Too many coincidences. Have you checked her whereabouts for lunch? If she is preggo with him there is no doubt they are having quiet time somewhere away from work to plan the babies future. Not every day but periodically. Be patient. If you find nothing then its all coincidence. 

If she ever confronts concerning snooping you peal off the list of coincidences and let her explain the hidden laptop, baby name, change in preening, interest in Persian food, super familiarity of work colleague asking her about her night and staying late . But not asking about you.

Stay patient. Something does not add up.


----------



## TX-SC

I don't see anything in that conversation to be alarmed about. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## blahfridge

Forgive me OP if this has already been addressed, but have you asked her directly about her laptop? I know it sounds simplistic and could backfire with her being even more secretive, but maybe she has a plausible explanation. I keep a journal on my laptop that is deeply personal and I wouldn't want anyone else to read it. 
At the very least, you could gauge her reaction to the question.


----------



## The Middleman

L81R said:


> The paranoid side of me reads into their conversation and thinks… Why does she have his number as a contact? Why is she talking about our kids? Why is he wondering about her night? Why is she happy that he’s staying late with her? Why is he offering to stay late? What are they really doing when “staying late”? Being realistic can explain it all.
> 
> How does one just drop the paranoia and stop?


Dude! Why don’t you just put your mind at ease. Show up at her work on a late night that you feel suspicious, and check out for your self what’s going on? One of two things is going to happen. Either you will catch her getting it on with the OM (in some form or another), or you’ll see that nothing is going on. Stop beating around the bush and playing 007, just go see for your self.


----------



## drifting on

Or you could go to her work on a night she works late with OM. When she asks you why are you here, you can say I want to meet OM and why you want to name a baby after him. She might get the point.


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## PiaMia

Take her phone out from under her pillow and look at it. Tell her you don't like the name Byron. Put a tracker on the undercarriage of her car; you can get one for $165 at Best Buy that is magnetic; you smack it on and then take it off and check it via USB port on your laptop to see where she went and at what times. You might also pop in at her job unexpectedly to bring her flowers to congratulate her on becoming pregnant. Also, on your cell phone carrier's website, you can see all the numbers she calls and texts. Good luck!


----------



## CantBelieveThis

PiaMia said:


> Take her phone out from under her pillow and look at it. Tell her you don't like the name Byron. Put a tracker on the undercarriage of her car; you can get one for $165 at Best Buy that is magnetic; you smack it on and then take it off and check it via USB port on your laptop to see where she went and at what times. You might also pop in at her job unexpectedly to bring her flowers to congratulate her on becoming pregnant. Also, on your cell phone carrier's website, you can see all the numbers she calls and texts. Good luck!


Get this puppy, plugs right into car OBD2 port for power, 3G real time GPS and can switch to a VAR with SMS code... What else to ask for!! 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## CantBelieveThis

CantBelieveThis said:


> Get this puppy, plugs right into car OBD2 port for power, 3G real time GPS and can switch to a VAR with SMS code... What else to ask for!!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


https://www.amazon.com/ATian-Vehicle-Tracker-gps306A-Tracking/dp/B00P91UTLK


Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Beachbum71

M


L81R said:


> My wife started working for a new company in July. When she first started the new job she mentioned a male co-worker a few times, how he was helping her a lot, friendly, etc. After a couple weeks she stopped mentioning him all together. 2 weeks later she was pregnant. We hadn't been using protection, but were also not actively trying to get pregnant. We had gone without protection for nearly 2 years. Usually having sex just once or twice a month, so not getting pregnant wasn't a surprise. Still, we went 2 years without getting pregnant then all of a sudden it happens?
> 
> She noted that the co-worker was Persian. She isn't adventurous with food and never tries anything new or other cuisines. I looked at her bank statements and from September to now she has gone to Persian restaurants 6 times, on days when I know she goes for lunch between work hours.
> 
> She's been dressing differently and doing her makeup more. She has said this is because she is working in a public place now rather than a building that was closed to the public entirely. She suggested a baby name that is similar to the man she works with. She suggested the name Byron, his name is pronounced by-on. Like I said, she has been going to Persian restaurants, but she has also been wanting to try different foods at home. She says she went out for lunch once with co-workers and realized she liked the food.
> 
> Her company is almost all females and female dominated (pharmacy). Of 35 full time employees, 3-4 are males. What I know about the male co-worker is his name, he's around my wife's age and a single father.
> 
> I have tried to check her phone and laptop, but she has been keeping them on her 24/7 or hiding them. She use to always keep her laptop beside our bed, now when she's at work I cannot find it anywhere. One day she took it to work with her, and would have no reason to use it. She sleeps with her phone under her pillow. When I have told her that I was going to clean out parts of the house, she gives an excuse for me not to rather than being happy it's getting done. Says she will do it. When I've asked to borrow her phone or laptop, I get lines like "it's dead, I have an alarm set that will be messed up, not working", etc.
> 
> My wife has a 15 year old from a previous relationship, she got pregnant at 15. We have 3 kids together. We have been married for 9 years and married because she got pregnant unexpectedly. So getting pregnant on a whim by another man isn't exactly beneath her.
> 
> On the other hand, she has never kept a lot of male friends - if any. I can't recall any male friends honestly. She is shy and doesn't like to be around my friends, mostly male. She'd rather hide out in our bedroom or office than visit with friends. So going around screwing another man would be out of character. We don't exactly have an amazing sex life, and never really have. I'm fine with it, but she didn't previously come off as the type to jump on another man when even in our prime she wasn't that way.
> 
> Am I being stupid and paranoid here? Once they come out of my mouth, I can't take back the words "I want a paternity test". I'd rather not cross that bridge unless justified.
> 
> We have had ups and downs, what marriage hasn't, but I wouldn't say we have a bad marriage.


I've gone thru my wife cheating on me , trust me she's DEFINITELY screwing around on you , she is giving you all the classic signs , i always suspected that my wife cheated on me with a bartender at a bar we used to go to and i asked her about it for years , well to make a long story short , in the end she admitted to me she screwed the bartender AND then admitted to me that she screwed another guys 2 years earlier than the bartender !!! Hell I had NO idea about the other guy !! If you have it in your heart that you feel like she's screwing another guy, then trust me she is , if you decide to stay with her after you find out for sure then your in for a disastrous emotional rollercoaster , iam still going thru it , my wife lied to me for 11 years before I found out , my advice is DIVORCE HER , the emotional bull **** isn't worth staying with her , ive been dealing with my wife cheating **** for the last 7 years ,


----------



## Chaparral

Workplace affairs are hard to catch. But now that you are suspicious you have to do the best you can to find out what is going on. Do nothing in regard to talking to her. That works maybe 1% of the time due to guilt. 99% of the time it just warns them and makes it harder to catch. Keep up with the var. Did you find the thread about evidence gathering? You have to be patient. You neither want to destroy your marriage or be played.
Google signs my wife is cheating and let us know which ones you check off and which ones you don’t.


----------



## drifting on

81

Is your wife far enough along to know the sex of the baby? If you don't know yet, start mentioning a new woman that started at your work. Talk about her all the time and about how amazing she is. Then tell your wife that if you have a girl you want to name it after her. Watch how she responds!!!


----------



## ConanHub

Ridiculous...


----------



## weightlifter

That call looks nothing like an AP call unless it is already broken off. Ive heard dozens of those calls by this time. This does not mean there is no affair or not. You may be looking at Raja while it is Joe his boss. I dunno. It could also quite possible a situation of a one nighter or other break off and not necessarily with this guy. Is the dude gay? Some women LOVE to confide in gay guys. Sometimes the toxic girlfriend is not a girl.

This one increasingly smells like user Refuse To Be Played. Just without the self guilt.

If you get nothing by say Dec 8ish, pull back and do it well after the kid is born. I dunno. This one is all over the board and one of the arrows is pointing wrong. I just cannot tell which.


----------



## Sports Fan

Keep persisting. This guy is way too ,familiar with her routine. Also him offering to stay back late with her is worrying. I agree with Weightlifter. If you find nothing by December 8th drop the matter for a while.


----------



## toucheturtle

i would like to suggest to you to go super nice on her.i believe the answer is right in front of you but you just cant see it.i would recommend checking her clothes and underwear,bras family photos.there may be things hidden in the yard and ceiling and walls. i was telling my daughter last night that in order to know them you HAVE TO BE THEM.


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## VFW

I got to tell you that I am not convinced there is anything here. Is her behavior suspicious? Certainly. The chances of her meeting and getting pregnant to another man in the same month is very unlikely. Exactly when is her due date? Also, I think to accuse your pregnant wife of infidelity without a smoking gun would be kind of a chump move. I think you need to lay back and support her through this pregnancy. After the baby is born, it would be easy enough to do a DNA, in the meantime relax and just enjoy the holidays with your family.


----------



## toucheturtle

i was watching a video on you tube.the title of the video was HOW NOT TO GET CAUGHT CHEATING? i was thinking about this forum.its time to go rouge.


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## L81R

I give up. I have checked her phone, checked her computer, searched the house, searched her car. I've listened to her conversations, the closest I've found isn't 100% proof. I can't deal with it anymore, I'm just going to straight up ask her if she's screwing him and if he knocked her up.


----------



## L81R

She has been leaving her work during lunch and parking downtown. Doesn't prove anything, there are condos, stores, offices in that area. I followed her and she went into a parking garage, she was alone. He could easily live in that area. There is condos across the street from where she parked. I couldn't see where she went. I asked her if she ever goes anywhere on her lunch and she said no unless going out with co-workers for lunch which she hasn't done recently. The only reason to lie is so I don't find out the truth. She is going to her works Christmas Party but has told me that she isn't going. In a phone call she told the man that she is going. She bought a new dress for what she claims family pictures, I'm guessing she's wearing that to the Christmas Party. It's not something one would normally wear for family pictures. She has no interest in having sex with me. She has slept in one of the kids rooms for the last two nights. She has been quiet and distant lately. She can do a DNA test while pregnant. Have it done and be done with it. What I'd like to say would probably get me kicked off this site.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

I am really sorry you are going through this. Please try and and stay calm. Don't confront yet. If she is innocent it will damage your marriage. 


However, something is obviously going on at lunch, XMAS party, distant behavior,and lack of sex with you. Still might be innocent though. But never ask a question like this that you don't already know the answer to. 

I assume she has a GMAIL. If so turn on Google Timeline. It will tell you precisely where she is going. You will need her GMAIL password to access. If she does not have a Google account install phone tracking software. Or pay someone to follow her closely at lunch. 

Does she carry a big handbag? Put this in bag: https://www.amazon.com/SpyCrushers-...511836311&sr=1-2&keywords=secret+pen+recorder


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

And have him followed at lunch.


----------



## Marc878

The Christmas party is the perfect time to get a PI.

Well worth the $'s if you need/want proof.


----------



## Marc878

Make plans and get out of limbo man. You're slowly killing yourself.


----------



## Marc878

L81R said:


> She has been leaving her work during lunch and parking downtown. Doesn't prove anything, there are condos, stores, offices in that area. I followed her and she went into a parking garage, she was alone. He could easily live in that area. There is condos across the street from where she parked. I couldn't see where she went. I asked her if she ever goes anywhere on her lunch and she said no unless going out with co-workers for lunch which she hasn't done recently. The only reason to lie is so I don't find out the truth. She is going to her works Christmas Party but has told me that she isn't going. In a phone call she told the man that she is going. She bought a new dress for what she claims family pictures, I'm guessing she's wearing that to the Christmas Party. It's not something one would normally wear for family pictures. She has no interest in having sex with me. She has slept in one of the kids rooms for the last two nights. She has been quiet and distant lately. She can do a DNA test while pregnant. Have it done and be done with it. What I'd like to say would probably get me kicked off this site.



PuT a GPS tracker on her car and see if it's the same area every time. Look up other mans address. If it's in that area you know.


----------



## L81R

Marc878 said:


> PuT a GPS tracker on her car and see if it's the same area every time. Look up other mans address. If it's in that area you know.


I have a tracker in her car. Last week she went to the same spot 3x. Made no mention of it to me. I don't know the man's address and haven't been able to find it. Hiring someone to follow him and see where he lives seems crazy. If it's at that point I should just leave her. If he does live in that area then that proves what she is doing at lunch. If he doesn't live in that area, all it proves is that she isn't ****ing _him_.

I can't go to the Christmas party without her knowing or have someone else go. It would be closed to the public so not just anyone can waltz in. I'm going to ask her again if she's going to the Christmas party or tell her that I want to go and we should go. The wrong answer or reaction and I'm asking her how long she's been ****ing him and when she's doing a DNA test.


----------



## Marc878

Have you asked for a DNA test?

If she goes to the party she'll leave with him.

A PI doesn't need access.

Do you want proof or not?

Some talk about it but really dont want the full truth but can't pull the trigger without it.


----------



## Malaise

L81R said:


> I have a tracker in her car. Last week she went to the same spot 3x. Made no mention of it to me. I don't know the man's address and haven't been able to find it. Hiring someone to follow him and see where he lives seems crazy. If it's at that point I should just leave her. If he does live in that area then that proves what she is doing at lunch. *If he doesn't live in that area, all it proves is that she isn't ****ing him.
> 
> *I can't go to the Christmas party without her knowing or have someone else go. It would be closed to the public so not just anyone can waltz in. I'm going to ask her again if she's going to the Christmas party or tell her that I want to go and we should go. The wrong answer or reaction and I'm asking her how long she's been ****ing him and when she's doing a DNA test.


Or, it may be they go to 'that area' because there's a motel, or a place to ' park '


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

3 times in one week . They could be meeting up in the garage itself out of the way to talk in a car and eat lunch. Or she is shopping. Who knows. 

I think you will get answers you need one way or the other before Xmas. Forget the party for now. 

Give yourself some piece of mind and hire a PI. You know what she is doing. Piece a cake for PI to figure it out rest. Give PI tracker info and her lunch schedule. PI will have answer in a week or 2. Give PI name of man you suspect. They will figure out address in no time. A good PI will even record the conversation they are having and take picture of any familiarity. 

You really do need to find out quickly one way or another, If she is meeting someone 3 times a week you will have pictures from PI and then you can ask where she was, catch her in her lies and then show her pictures and ask all the questions you want.

If she is seeing someone hand her a divorce petition on the spot. 

Try and be patient. We know this is hard and it gets the emotions of anyone.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

If XMAS party is coming up quickly PIs have ways to gather info. They don't need to be invited. They have their ways. They go were they don't belong to find out what's going on,


----------



## arobk

OMG if she isn't cheating (which at this point I doubt) then she is certainly not treating you in any way a loving spouse should. Tell her what you are thinking and tell her you are going to need a DNA test on the kid. See how she acts after that. If she is not stunned by that then the most likely thing is she knows you are right.


----------



## notmyrealname4

/


----------



## syhoybenden

She is most definitely up to no good.

Have you considered that the guy you suspect may be a red herring? A deliberate ploy of misdirection to keep you off the real trail? If so that would speak to a higher level of sophistication in her guarding of her secrecy, and if so then probably not her first rodeo.


----------



## Marc878

L81R said:


> I give up. I have checked her phone, checked her computer, searched the house, searched her car. I've listened to her conversations, the closest I've found isn't 100% proof. I can't deal with it anymore, I'm just going to straight up ask her if she's screwing him and if he knocked her up.


Smart cheaters stay off family phones and pc's.

A workplace affair is the toughest to detect.

Too many red flags for nothing IMO


----------



## ButtPunch

Please do not confront yet

This will all get turned around on you

I know it's hard but i've seen tougher nuts to crack here on TAM

Hire the PI.....


----------



## sokillme

I would just tell here you know she has been lying to you and she has one chance to tell you the truth. But I would also already have talked to a lawyer and be ready to lower the boom so it wouldn't be an idle threat. **** like this takes years off your life and is not worth it.


----------



## mickybill

Some one mentioned Gmail, many peole don't know this but Gmail keeps a lot of stuff that you think you threw in to the trash.

If she is on Gmail, and you have access to it, on the left side scroll way down to ALL MAIL. You might be surprised what is in that file.


----------



## donny64

Try to relax. Get to the doc, tell him what's going on, and get a prescription for Xanax if need be. You are going to work yourself up into a state of anxiety that will be very bad for you. Been there, done that. Step back if you need to, and keep your head. If the evidence is not coming, working yourself up into an anxiety attack will not speed it along. 

I'm not saying you are getting worked up over nothing. Some of these red flags don't look good, and there may very well be something there. But they are not definitive. You need to keep your head and keep covertly investigating until you are satisfied there is nothing there. But if your gut is telling you there is, you know your wife better than anyone at this point. Keep checking.

I'd not confront. I'd not ask. If you ask she will only deny (really...has there been a single time we've seen where a possible BS asked the WS if they were cheating, and they confirmed it? Not one I can remember here). If you confront and accuse, and there is nothing there, you look like an ass. If you confront and there is something there you can't prove, she will deny and still make you look like an ass. And take it further underground.

From everything I've read, you need to verify the addresses where the GPS said she was. Get that checked off as "nothing". Then use your father's car again, or a rental car and watch her leave work at lunch time a few times. 

I have a hard time believing she'd be doing something, and not get nailed via VAR in the car after a week. But then again, if she is smart, she knows this is a possibility and flat out may not speak to anyone about this in the car. Or may just not have had the chance to talk to a friend she confided in about it yet. I'd keep up the VAR for a couple weeks or so. VAR is your best bet unless she is smart and disciplined and just flat refuses to talk about it over a phone or at home or in a car. I knew one guy who would flat out REFUSE to discuss anything even remotely incriminating unless he was out in a public place (no chance for his W to place a VAR). Never did anything in his car, or hers. Knowledge of their use is becoming more widespread, and some won't chance it. He even went so far as to shut off his phone (sorry honey, battery died) when he was with his affair partner or talking to her or about her (in case she was able to put monitoring software on his phone). Used a burner phone for all communication to her. Kind of funny, he was ultimately foiled by lipstick. He though he cleaned up. He didn't. He came home, sat on the couch talking to his W for about 10 minutes, she looked at him and said "WTF? Stay right there!!!" She went to the kitchen, came back with a paper towel, rubbed his mouth, and right there was all the evidence she needed. 

Even the "smart ones" get complacent and trip up at some point. She KNEW, but she couldn't prove it until that moment. He'd been carrying on with this other woman for a year, and several others for years before that.

Dr Fone is sketchy (at least was for me). Tried it out on my own phone (Samsung S7), and it jacked it up so bad it was nearly unusable until the next update downloaded. But it worked great on an older S6 I had. If you can get it to work, it will show you a good number of deleted messages (not all, but a good many of them). 

If you can get access to the computer, there are remote key logger programs you can put in there which will remain hidden in the background, and which will report to a remote site you can log into to view everything. Try this for as long as you need to either confirm something is up, or that nothing is up. Then let it go until that kid is born and you can DNA it. If you find nothing else between now and then, that should get you back to a stable place where you can breath easy.


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## phillybeffandswiss

If you follow her again, take pictures and then say "I am waiting for the rest, is there anything else you want to tell me?" You already know she has lied by omission,lied about the dress and the Christmas party. I wouldn't waste money on a PI. You know how rare, IMO, it is to catch someone with these people? I've read more stories of extra red flags being added than an actual caught spouse, except on TV.


----------



## drifting on

L81

I will pm you later tonight, do not confront yet. I know it's hard, I've been through it. You are at the point of exploding, it's normal, but you need to be calm and collected.


----------



## drifting on

I pm'd you, but you may also try something else. After she goes into the garage try to follow her at a distance. Losing her is no problem, you just have to stop at Walmart first. Go to the automotive section, once there look for the valve removal tool, the valve is located in the filling stem of a tire. Go back to her car and remove the valve, the tire goes flat in roughly ten seconds. Do this to all four tires, reinstalling the valve in each tire after its flat. Then park out of sight and watch, does she call you or OM? Don't answer your phone if she calls you, she will then either call OM or a tow service. 

If she calls a tow service now it's documented WHERE she was. She will be late in returning to work, further documentation she wasn't at work. Although she is pregnant, and I wouldn't like myself for causing a hardship to a pregnant woman, she's been lying and well that comes with consequences. By flattening all four you are assuring yourself that she won't try to change a tire. This is how you get your anger to work for you, not against you. Get mad, but stay smart.


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## Tatsuhiko

Very concerning that she is lying to you regarding her whereabouts. When you follow her, can you not follow her all the way into the garage? Maybe park near her and see where she goes, or whom she meets? 

What reason is she giving for sleeping in a different bedroom?


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## SunCMars

Leaving the workplace at lunch...
All alone.
...........................................................
Follow the presumed co-POSOM, CW POSOM.

Is he at work during her work absence?
His car is his transportation...unless he is in the back seat laying down, or in the trunk.
Both not likely!

Watch his car. It likely leaves earlier, or never shows up. 
A personal day off for him rewards the man with ~thirty-five minutes of lusty play.
An expensive proposition, even if salary. Those days are limited, as are the minutes in the sack with his quest.
Unless he is in sales, or is in a position to leave when he needs for work purposes. He is a pharmacy worker, hence not likely.
...........................................................

The suspected man may be the co-worker, and nothing else. Coworker may be a friend, and a POSOM willing. If she too were willing.

The real, in the flesh, sexual tryst co-conspirator, CCOM may be the man whose trail leads from the parking garage to his den, her lie, his lair.

Just Sayin'

The Typist


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## Chaparral

If you confront her, do not Tell her what you know. Simply tell her she has been acting strange, telling lies and going places and lying about that too. Ask her why she is naming her son after a coworker. Tell her she must get a dna test done and take a poly graph. Do not tell her what she has lied about or how you know. Do not tell her anything as proof. Simply tell her you know and she can take the tests or divorce .

Personally, I would go the PI route first in order to be sure I wasn’t destroying my family.

Why is she sleeping in the other room?


----------



## drifting on

I would still flatten the tires, this way if she calls you she will be scrambling for an excuse. Pressure is the key to breaking one, keep the pressure on and flatten at least two tires every time she goes to the garage. Just be careful that she doesn't keep a watch on the car after she parks.


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## TDSC60

Sex in the parking garage. Not unheard of. Excitement, danger of getting caught.

Have someone stake out the garage - she what she does once she parks the car. Maybe walks to another car and gets in?


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## southernplus40

Have you made any progress in your quest for the truth that might explain your wife’s behavior? I’m sure I am not the only one wondering and worried about you and your family. Please post


----------



## drifting on

southernplus40 said:


> Have you made any progress in your quest for the truth that might explain your wife’s behavior? I’m sure I am not the only one wondering and worried about you and your family. Please post




Hopefully he's busy shopping at Walmart and putting the valve remover to use.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

drifting on said:


> I pm'd you, but you may also try something else. After she goes into the garage try to follow her at a distance. Losing her is no problem, you just have to stop at Walmart first. Go to the automotive section, once there look for the valve removal tool, the valve is located in the filling stem of a tire. Go back to her car and remove the valve, the tire goes flat in roughly ten seconds. Do this to all four tires, reinstalling the valve in each tire after its flat. Then park out of sight and watch, does she call you or OM? Don't answer your phone if she calls you, she will then either call OM or a tow service.
> 
> If she calls a tow service now it's documented WHERE she was. She will be late in returning to work, further documentation she wasn't at work. Although she is pregnant, and I wouldn't like myself for causing a hardship to a pregnant woman, she's been lying and well that comes with consequences. By flattening all four you are assuring yourself that she won't try to change a tire. This is how you get your anger to work for you, not against you. Get mad, but stay smart.


That is one hell of an idea.


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## drifting on

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> That is one hell of an idea.





Lol!!! I got it from you, my brother!!


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## drifting on

wilson said:


> Driving on flat tires would be a risk. A tire that's flat can put cracks in the side wall. Modern tires can hold their shape and she might not notice. Plus, don't do all 4 since it would look like vandalism.
> 
> A better thing might be to remove a fuse. Take a fuse out from something that is needed to start the car and leave it lying in the fuse box. It will look like the fuse fell out to anyone who checks.




Vandalism is exactly what you want everyone to think, because OP has no clue according to her that she goes to said parking garage. By removing and replacing the valve stem valve you don't wreck the tire or rim. You simply need to inflate the tire. Hopefully she doesn't have the newer low profile tires that will keep their shape. Fuse box is a good idea too, if accessible without needing entry to the car.


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## JayDee7

Do you check her bank statements? Check where she is spending money. If it is in stores and restaurants around the parking the garage maybe that can be explained. 
If you go to the disabling her car route, just pop the hood and undo the battery terminals. It will be dead and will not start and likely will not know what to do and either call you, call the guy, or call a service. Maybe call her at lunch time and parked at the garage just to chat and see if she will answer your call. 
If she calls you, which my wife would and I think most wove would, because the car will not start you say you will be right there and pop the hood and fix it and you will be her hero for the day. If she calls the other guy she will not tell you anything about it. If she calls a service they will fix it quickly and she will be charged and you can bring that up for discussion.


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## GusPolinski

L81R said:


> I have a tracker in her car. Last week she went to the same spot 3x. Made no mention of it to me. I don't know the man's address and haven't been able to find it. Hiring someone to follow him and see where he lives seems crazy. If it's at that point I should just leave her. If he does live in that area then that proves what she is doing at lunch. If he doesn't live in that area, all it proves is that she isn't ****ing _him_.
> 
> I can't go to the Christmas party without her knowing or have someone else go. It would be closed to the public so not just anyone can waltz in. I'm going to ask her again if she's going to the Christmas party or tell her that I want to go and we should go. The wrong answer or reaction and I'm asking her how long she's been ****ing him and when she's doing a DNA test.


What’s up?


----------



## badbane

L81R said:


> She doesn't have an iPhone. She has a Samsung S6. I don't know if that has the same options to track usage. I looked at her apps, after seeing someone here mention cheaters can use SnapChat, and a couple other apps for chatting. Aside from the standard built in apps, she had:
> 
> Amazon Shopping
> My Calendar (looked like a fertility tracker)
> Sync Pro (reddit)
> Facebook
> Messenger
> MultiWindow Toggle
> Nest (thermostat)
> MIPC (baby monitor)
> Kijiji (Canada’s Craigslist)
> Banking app
> Instagram
> Pinterest
> Netflix
> Fitness Pal
> 
> I read all of her text conversations. She had them to various co-workers, that were all work related and most during work hours. My parents and brother. A couple relatives. And a few friends. There was nothing in any of them. She didn't know I was going to be looking at her phone, so I'm at a loss right now and feel like I need to check myself into a mental house.


One this you maybe missing is a locker app. That's an app that pretends to be something else but is really just a password protected folder. this can easily be bypassed. The tell tale giveaway is an over sized application. IE a 200 mb calculator app.


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## badbane

L81R said:


> I have a tracker in her car. Last week she went to the same spot 3x. Made no mention of it to me. I don't know the man's address and haven't been able to find it. Hiring someone to follow him and see where he lives seems crazy. If it's at that point I should just leave her. If he does live in that area then that proves what she is doing at lunch. If he doesn't live in that area, all it proves is that she isn't ****ing _him_.
> 
> I can't go to the Christmas party without her knowing or have someone else go. It would be closed to the public so not just anyone can waltz in. I'm going to ask her again if she's going to the Christmas party or tell her that I want to go and we should go. The wrong answer or reaction and I'm asking her how long she's been ****ing him and when she's doing a DNA test.


Slow down and think. You are letting frustration and anxiety win. It is time to turn it off. You can focus soley on what you know. You have the bread crumbs you need but you are too focused on finding the smoking gun. She is not going to come out and tell you anything. If anything it will make things worse. I promise. It is very important you find an outlet for these emotions. If you have a big project you have been putting off. Now is a good time to start. If you cannot take this hire an investigator. Let them be the ones who have to "find the smoking gun" because finding it only brings pain. The healing comes later. 

So back track a bit. 
You mentioned that she is going to a christmas party. Why not crash it if you can keep a level head then it should be easy enough to pull off depending on the size of the organization that is. Getting the guys address you are suspicious of is easy. If you know where he works he probably has a linked in or facebook. if there is a photo of him at his house you may be able to pull it down and look at meta data to get lat and lon coordinates you can plug into google earth. 

you have more than you think. if you need some help with connecting the dots PM me and I might be able to help you out some more. Var in her car is the best option for you at this time. also if she has a google account you can log into her account and see her gps time line.


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## GusPolinski

L81R said:


> She doesn't have an iPhone. She has a Samsung S6. I don't know if that has the same options to track usage. I looked at her apps, after seeing someone here mention cheaters can use SnapChat, and a couple other apps for chatting. Aside from the standard built in apps, she had:
> 
> Amazon Shopping
> My Calendar (looked like a fertility tracker)
> Sync Pro (reddit)
> Facebook
> Messenger
> MultiWindow Toggle
> Nest (thermostat)
> MIPC (baby monitor)
> Kijiji (Canada’s Craigslist)
> Banking app
> Instagram
> Pinterest
> Netflix
> Fitness Pal
> 
> I read all of her text conversations. She had them to various co-workers, that were all work related and most during work hours. My parents and brother. A couple relatives. And a few friends. There was nothing in any of them. She didn't know I was going to be looking at her phone, so I'm at a loss right now and feel like I need to check myself into a mental house.


My Fitness Pal is often used to cheat — not just the app but the entire community (forums, etc).

Messenger could also be used to conceal/carry on an affair, especially with the new “Secret Conversations” feature.

Also, Google Maps has a nifty location-tracking feature. I realize that you have GPS in her car, but if she parks her car and walks two blocks over... you get the drift.


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## Taxman

If you want to follow her, rent a car, or borrow one from a friend. Then make sure that you follow her right into the parking garage. There you will find your answers. Client of mine gave me the idea, as he was getting wierd locations from "Find my Iphone". She maintained that she was in the office for lunch, but her phone would be in a parking lot blocks away. So, he borrowed a friend's car for lunchtimes. He followed her, and was one row behind her when he saw her pull in, exit her car, and get into another. He then strolled up to that vehicle and began snapping them having sex. At the one minute mark, he pulled open the door, pulled his wife's AP out, and began kicking him in the crotch. Surprise is everything. At this pointHis wife was crawling up and down his back trying to get him to stop and trying to get the camera out of his hand. Then she realized she was near naked. Her husband, thinking quickly, kept her from getting back in the car, while continuing to assault the AP. Eventually his wife sprinted to her car, then looking back, realized that her keys were in the AP's car. In the meantime, a crowd was staring at the naked lady and the naked man, cupping his bloody balls. My client then stopped and told his wife she had better take her friend to the hospital as it was painfully obvious that the kicking had ripped open his scrotum and he was bleeding profusely. The AP's wife was called and told that her husband was injured while ****ing my client's wife. The AP will be out of commission for a very long time. His scrotum was torn, and one of his testes was infected by dirt on my client's shoe. The AP will likely lose one of his balls. He no longer works with my client's wife. She is no longer his wife. She works elsewhere, and hopes that her AP's wife does not similarly assault her.


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## Adelais

Taxman said:


> If you want to follow her, rent a car, or borrow one from a friend. Then make sure that you follow her right into the parking garage. There you will find your answers. Client of mine gave me the idea, as he was getting wierd locations from "Find my Iphone". She maintained that she was in the office for lunch, but her phone would be in a parking lot blocks away. So, he borrowed a friend's car for lunchtimes. He followed her, and was one row behind her when he saw her pull in, exit her car, and get into another. He then strolled up to that vehicle and began snapping them having sex. At the one minute mark, he pulled open the door, pulled his wife's AP out, and began kicking him in the crotch. Surprise is everything. At this pointHis wife was crawling up and down his back trying to get him to stop and trying to get the camera out of his hand. Then she realized she was near naked. Her husband, thinking quickly, kept her from getting back in the car, while continuing to assault the AP. Eventually his wife sprinted to her car, then looking back, realized that her keys were in the AP's car. In the meantime, a crowd was staring at the naked lady and the naked man, cupping his bloody balls. My client then stopped and told his wife she had better take her friend to the hospital as it was painfully obvious that the kicking had ripped open his scrotum and he was bleeding profusely. The AP's wife was called and told that her husband was injured while ****ing my client's wife. The AP will be out of commission for a very long time. His scrotum was torn, and one of his testes was infected by dirt on my client's shoe. The AP will likely lose one of his balls. He no longer works with my client's wife. She is no longer his wife. She works elsewhere, and hopes that her AP's wife does not similarly assault her.


Wow. Did the AP press assault charges against your client? It is not illegal anymore to commit adultery, but it is illegal to assault a person. Not saying I sympathize for the AP, I don't. Client might feel good about getting vengeance, but not so good about having an assault charge on his record, or having to pay AP"s hospital bills.


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## Bonkers

Don't know why you need solid proof, there's enough circumstantial evidence to convict.

Look man your marriage is over. 

Start planning the rest of your life with that in mind, starting right now. 

Protect your assets, close joint accounts, bury money whereever you can.

If she asks what's going on don't give her an answer. Or be cryptic and say "the answer is under your pillow when you sleep".


----------



## Taxman

Araucaria said:


> Wow. Did the AP press assault charges against your client? It is not illegal anymore to commit adultery, but it is illegal to assault a person. Not saying I sympathize for the AP, I don't. Client might feel good about getting vengeance, but not so good about having an assault charge on his record, or having to pay AP"s hospital bills.



As a matter of fact, he was charged. His wife wanted him prosecuted to the nth degree. The AP was hospitalized, and lost the ability, here is the legalistic term, lost the ability for sexual congress for an extended period of time. Without his co(k, he lost interest in the wife. In fact he blamed her for his ills. Apparently turned on her completely. Dumb move. When he turned on her, she went to the police and stated that she had lied, and that the AP swung at her husband first. (She was lying - surprise). The police took a long time and eventually dropped the charges. My client was quite prepared for jail. This kind of assault would probably have put him away for a year or so, but AP's anger coupled with WW's complete lack of intelligence, added up to my client walking. He ended up smelling like a rose. Without AP, wife suddenly wanted the marriage again. He was able to get a decent settlement out of her based on him holding out hope for a reconciliation. Even I knew he was stringing her along.


----------



## Bonkers

^The story sounds almost too good to be true.


----------



## Edmund

What happened to L8ir?


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## thedope

Looks like OP rug swept


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## L81R

I have kept a VAR in my wife’s vehicle since November ’17. I have found very little to work with. I found a variety of calls to and from appointments, family members. Some calls to co-workers, including the OM but nothing convicting. I was expecting to hear a call of her flat out saying she is ****ing someone. That hasn’t happened. The warning calls have been from OM. 

In February she had a call from the OM. She had taken 2 weeks off work for a medical reason. The first thing he said was “hey hun”. They talked about her medical issue pertaining to her pregnancy. He said he’s missed her and “the day sucks when you aren’t here”. Said they will “catch up” the following day when she’s back at work. However, he didn’t know she was going back to work another co-worker told him. So my wife didn’t tell him. But “hun”? No ****ing thank you. He called her “hun” in two more calls that week. Both were short calls asking if she was “almost there” and “see you soon”. 

In January my wife had a series of phone calls from the same number that were not answered or called back. A number from out of our area that I didn’t recognize. I acknowledged it but couldn’t find anything on it. 

I recovered deleted data on her phone after the February calls. She had deleted texts from a few people. Some random texts from family and friends, that didn’t seem to be anything. There was one text, which matched the number that had called her multiple times. The text came after the calls. No calls after the text. 

Hey [wife’s name], how are you? I know it’s been a long time since we last talked. I haven’t forgotten about what I did, and I want to apologize for it. I know I was a prick. It’s probably the furthest thing from your mind now, but regardless I’m sorry for the way I acted. I was immature, emotional and handled the situation terribly. It’s crazy to think about how close we were, how much I loved you, and where we are now. Strangers. What I had with you is irreplaceable. I want to apologize for our last day. Emotions got the best of me and my reaction was terrible. I get emotional now just thinking about it. I sincerely hope that things are better for you. You deserve it [wife’s name]. I have been thinking about you lately. I have every year at this time, but didn’t want to bother you. I know that I’m not your person anymore. I truly hope that you have found that in your husband and have stopped internalizing everything. So many memories come flooding back, I imagine it is the same for you – and unfortunately most are not good memories. I really hope that you all are doing well [wife’s name]. I am so sorry for everything [wife’s name]. So sorry. From things within my control and for the things totally out of my control. If I could fix it all or do it better, I would. I wish I could have supported you better rather than simply try and fix it. I wish I could have always been there for you, maybe it’s for the better that I couldn’t. I’d love to hear how you are doing, if that’s something you’d be interested in. If not, I hope you are doing well and wish you the best. I really do mean that. If you don't want to catch up, I'll take the hint and won't bother you again. It has been a long time and maybe there is too much water under the bridge, it's understandable. Either way, I sincerely hope you are doing well and I'm sorry.

As soon as I saw that I immediately called my wife out on it. I shoved the ****ing computer in her face. All she did was start crying and call ME an *******, then locked herself in our bedroom. I straight out told her that I know she has been cheating and that baby isn’t mine. I said some things that I shouldn’t have said, including calling her a ***** with at least 3 baby-daddies. She will NOT admit to cheating. Not a single ****ing admission. Not even a hint at it or “just once”. 

We are separated right now, but still living together. I refuse to leave my house. If she wants to sleep on the couch, so be it. She won’t move out and says that I’m crazy and she hasn’t cheated. Yet, when I suggested doing a 23andMe test on the baby, just to see what the results would be (this was before everything blew up). She immediately shut it down, saying it was a waste of money, didn’t want to have that information out there. Even though we’ve all already done them, for fun. She says she changed her mind and wouldn’t do it again because of privacy. In reality, it is because it will show that soon-to-be-born baby is half something other than me. At this point I don’t even know if it is the co-workers. She will NOT tell me who that message was really from. At first she said it was none of my business and that she didn’t respond to it. Then she said it was from her ex, who fathered her oldest child. I asked him about it when he showed up to pick up their kid, and he said it was not from him. It doesn’t make sense being from him anyway. They are in regular contact, they have a ****ing kid together. They had a relationship 15 years ago at 15, that’s not the kind of relationship feeling vibe I was getting. That is not his number or area code, and I’ve called the number numerous times. There is no personal voicemail message that says the name. I had an answer once, and was immediately hung up on. My number was blocked after that, called from different numbers and blocked numbers which were ignored. 

All my wife does is cry. She won’t admit that she’s screwed around for god knows how long. She knows I am doing a DNA test on that baby when she’s born. She says to go ahead and do it, like I’m just supposed to decide not to. When is the trickle trothing supposed to start? It’s been about two weeks. Thus far she has stuck to her guns that oh she would never cheat, why am I being like this (again), I’m the *******, etc. 

She put a new hard drive in her laptop recently. I saw the purchase on our amazon account. I learned earlier this year that at work they have an IM program to chat with co-workers about work related crap. That is going to be how she has been chatting to *********. I’ll never have access to that. I sent in DNA tests of our other kids, hopefully I’ll have those results soon. 

We married because she was pregnant, unplanned. For all I know that isn’t even my child and she just stuck me with paternity because whoever else she was ****ing wasn’t sticking around. She’s hid it well, but messed up. We’re approaching a marriage of 10 years. A ****ing joke. I’m getting ready to serve her divorce papers. I’m meeting with a lawyer next week.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Sorry it came to this but with all the warning flags I am not surprised. Hand the mystery phone number to a PI. They will get you info who owns it.


----------



## Marc878

Talk isn't getting you anywhere. She doesn't have to tell you anything.


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## Edmund

This is so sad L81R. I hoped things would have worked out for you.

I am sorry for bumping your thread. Please forgive my curiosity.


----------



## L81R

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Sorry it came to this but with all the warning flags I am not surprised. Hand the mystery phone number to a PI. They will get you info who owns it.


That's what I'm going to do. I want to know who has been ****ing my wife, for how ****ing long and how many of my ****ing kids he fathered. My wife had her ex do a paternity test on their kid after he was born. She says it was because he was uncooperative. I'm betting it's because she had no ****ing clue who the father was and tested a line up of men. Or her ex demanded it because he knew she was a *****. Wish I could have the kids taken away from her completely.


----------



## L81R

Marc878 said:


> Talk isn't getting you anywhere. She doesn't have to tell you anything.


You are right that talking (yelling) isn’t getting my anywhere. She knows that I’m going to leave her, she knows that I know. So why can’t she just admit to screwing around? All she says over and over is that she has never cheated, would never do that, doesn’t want a divorce, I/we need to go to counselling. She swears she has never cheated, yet won’t tell me who that text was really from. She won’t tell me why her “co-worker” is calling her hun and asking when she will be there to see him. She claims he calls everyone hun. Sure he ****ing does. She claims that he asked when she would be there because she was meeting him at work and the building was locked. The calls were on the weekend, when their work is closed but sometimes pharmacists do have to go in for on-call emergencies. She never has needed to. I told her that I have hardproof that she cheated (lie technically I guess) and if she wants any chance at saving this marriage and me not telling anyone and everyone that she’s a *****, that she needs to come clean. Still claims she has never cheated. It’s like she thinks I’m a ****ing idiot. Well, I am. I married her and kept my fogged up goggles on for 10 damn years.


----------



## Dyokemm

I agree with your assessment.....

That text is pretty [email protected] evidence of an A.....made more so by the refusal of your WW to tell you who it is, her refusal to do DNA testing, and the reaction of the other number to you call and blocking you (she has since warned him that you know of the A but not who he is).....heck even how she broke down crying instantly when you confronted, called you a name, and then ran and hid.

If you want to find out who POSOM is, your best bet is to hire a PI to run down the number.

Also....just because this clear evidence does not seem to point to co-worker, but rather to someone else, does not mean she has been innocent when it comes to him either.

Sounds like your WW is going to roll the dice and hope they DNA testing doesn’t flat out show her to be a liar.....she is unlikely to confess.

Possible getting slammed with D papers will change that....but don’t count on it.

Best chance of proving the infidelity and getting her to confess is find out who POSOM is and then expose the A to his BW/gf if he has one.....in other words, get proof and blow the A up.


----------



## skerzoid

L81R

1. PI to find the texter.

2. DNA everyone.

3. STD test?

4. Polygraphs are not allowed on pregnant women, but after the birth, have her poly as a carrot towards continuing the marriage.

5. If the DNA of the unborn is not yours, go after the boss through HR or court.

6. Filing done at work can be effective. It doesn't have to go all the way if things work out.

7. Is Bossman married, if so, tell other spouse of your concerns.

8. If this turns out to be infidelity, nuke everyone. :surprise:


----------



## Lostinthought61

sounds like she will go down with her dying breath a lying all the way. sorry you find yourself here.


----------



## Malaise

Yep, get that PI ASAP.


----------



## L81R

Dyokemm said:


> I agree with your assessment.....
> 
> That text is pretty [email protected] evidence of an A.....made more so by the refusal of your WW to tell you who it is, her refusal to do DNA testing, and the reaction of the other number to you call and blocking you (she has since warned him that you know of the A but not who he is).....heck even how she broke down crying instantly when you confronted, called you a name, and then ran and hid.
> 
> If you want to find out who POSOM is, your best bet is to hire a PI to run down the number.
> 
> Also....just because this clear evidence does not seem to point to co-worker, but rather to someone else, does not mean she has been innocent when it comes to him either.
> 
> Sounds like your WW is going to roll the dice and hope they DNA testing doesn’t flat out show her to be a liar.....she is unlikely to confess.
> 
> Possible getting slammed with D papers will change that....but don’t count on it.
> 
> Best chance of proving the infidelity and getting her to confess is find out who POSOM is and then expose the A to his BW/gf if he has one.....in other words, get proof and blow the A up.


To me that text proves she has had at least one affair, for a long ****ing time. And the ****head did something bad that he continues to feel bad for. Maybe like knocking her up and dumping her? That seems to fit in with it all. He knew she was ****ing married, he mentioned me. What kind of POS ****s someone else’s wife? Let alone knocks her up (at least once) and makes another man raise it. Both of their reactions are very telling. 

I’m going to hire a PI. I want to know exactly who the hell he is. See how many people she has been screwing. She’s trying to protect him so much? I want both of their lives to be blown up. 

I wonder what lie she will tell when the DNA test comes back that I’m not the father. Toilet seat? Cry rape? Fluke? Magical mystery?


----------



## L81R

skerzoid said:


> L81R
> 
> 1. PI to find the texter.
> 
> 2. DNA everyone.
> 
> 3. STD test?
> 
> 4. Polygraphs are not allowed on pregnant women, but after the birth, have her poly as a carrot towards continuing the marriage.
> 
> 5. If the DNA of the unborn is not yours, go after the boss through HR or court.
> 
> 6. Filing done at work can be effective. It doesn't have to go all the way if things work out.
> 
> 7. Is Bossman married, if so, tell other spouse of your concerns.
> 
> 8. If this turns out to be infidelity, nuke everyone. :surprise:


1. I’m looking up PI’s in my area as I type this. I’ll be making contact Monday morning. 

2. DNA tests on “my” kids are done, I’m getting a DNA test on the baby as soon as she is born. My wife has an appointment tomorrow, think I’ll go and make damn sure they know what’s going on. 

3. STD testing should be next on my list, you’re right. I’ll demand one of her as well. Not like she will do it, even though she claims she will “do anything” to make me believe her. Anything but tell me who the text was from, why a co-worker is calling her hun, explain the secrecy and 50 million other things. 

4. You know, I was against polygraph tests but now I’m thinking I should do it. Screw it. Humiliate her. If I can find one, that’s going to be a requirement of staying together. I know she will fail it. Bet she will try to lie her way out of that too. 

5. I’m pretty sure her workplace has it in the contract that they cannot engage in sexual relationships with each other. End both of their jobs there. His kid or not, it’s clear they are ****ing. 

6. If I can legally have her served at work, I want to do that. Have it done in front of everyone. The OM there will see and know exactly what is going on. Generally they are mailed or sent to the other parties lawyer, but if I can have her served at work it’s happening. 

7. The co-worker is not married, from what I’ve found out. He’s divorced or never married, has a kid. The other man, no idea but based on the secrecy I’m guessing he is. And I’m also betting his wife wouldn’t be too happy to read that text about his irreplaceable relationship with my wife.

8. I want everything and everyone to be blown up.


----------



## Marc878

Upfront I'd just have a PI find out who the phone number belongs to. Won't be that expensive. If you go that route first.


----------



## stro

The fact that she will not tell you who that text is from is very telling. If she wants to save her marriage she needs to understand that that is a non negotiable condition of that process. Healing begins with the TRUTH. It is the only way. It sounds possible you suspected the work guy but it was someone entirely different. It sounds like she is pretty good at keeping secrets. But I HOPE if she really wants to save your marriage that she does her part to the fullest and you can begin to heal.


----------



## honcho

L81R said:


> To me that text proves she has had at least one affair, for a long ****ing time. And the ****head did something bad that he continues to feel bad for. Maybe like knocking her up and dumping her? That seems to fit in with it all. He knew she was ****ing married, he mentioned me. What kind of POS ****s someone else’s wife? Let alone knocks her up (at least once) and makes another man raise it. Both of their reactions are very telling.
> 
> I’m going to hire a PI. I want to know exactly who the hell he is. See how many people she has been screwing. She’s trying to protect him so much? I want both of their lives to be blown up.
> 
> I wonder what lie she will tell when the DNA test comes back that I’m not the father. Toilet seat? Cry rape? Fluke? Magical mystery?


I had texts, pictures, witnesses and a very explicit video that the om provided me along with all the details of the affair and my crazy ex never admitted. She will go to her grave keeping the worst kept secret in this town. 

Some will just never admit and as long as they don't it never happened in there messed up heads.....


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Did you ever find the hidden laptop?


----------



## Dyokemm

stro said:


> The fact that she will not tell you who that text is from is very telling. If she wants to save her marriage she needs to understand that that is a non negotiable condition of that process. Healing begins with the TRUTH. It is the only way. It sounds possible you suspected the work guy but it was someone entirely different. It sounds like she is pretty good at keeping secrets. But I HOPE if she really wants to save your marriage that she does her part to the fullest and you can begin to heal.


She is NEVER going to willingly give up that name......as soon as OP got the name, his WW knows the A will be blown wide open.....her carefully kept secret world would be exposed to the light of day, and all the little details would eventually emerge.

At this moment, the fact OP does not know the name of POSOM is the dam holding back the flood waters......

She believes that everything will remain in the realm of deniability as long as she can keep his identity secret.......and to a certain extent this is true.

OP is limited in evidence for exposure of his W’s waywardness without knowing who the OM even is.......it is essentially a he said/she said standoff where as long as she keeps denying, further facts that show her traitorous behavior remain hidden.

But....there is a ‘fly in her ointment’ at the moment......OP’s WW is definitely taking a calculated risk.

Because if any of the DNA tests come back showing OP is NOT the father, then the exact name of OM does nothing to save her M and lifestyle.....at that point, the only beneficiary of her silence would be POSOM.

This is why it is definitely suspicious IMO that WW is unwilling to do pre-natal DNA testing......and the funny thing about her resistance is that it will make her look guilty even if it turns out her BH is the father.....

It has not apparently registered in her head yet that people with no reason to fear DNA tests (or revealing a text sender’s identity for that matter) have no problem with agreeing to them.....

In fact, the test/revelation BENEFITS them because it proves they are truthful and have nothing to hide.....

Everything WW is doing at the moment is screaming ‘Guilty’.


----------



## L81R

honcho said:


> I had texts, pictures, witnesses and a very explicit video that the om provided me along with all the details of the affair and my crazy ex never admitted. She will go to her grave keeping the worst kept secret in this town.
> 
> Some will just never admit and as long as they don't it never happened in there messed up heads.....


How are some people so damn crazy? If I had a video of my wife ****ing another man and she still wouldn’t admit to doing it… she’d need to be committed to an insane asylum. That better not exist anywhere on this planet. Our kids could see that crap, her teenager could see it. It’s going to be pathetic if I end up getting the details from the OM rather than my damn wife.


----------



## L81R

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Did you ever find the hidden laptop?


Yup. In the damn dyer. We have two sets of washer/dryers, one is in use and the other isn’t. When we bought the house it already had a set, we had a set as well, and we kept both. I found the laptop inside the drum of the unused dryer. But she has nothing to hide? I didn’t know her password, she changed it from the password she use to use (our cats name). I reset the password on her computer. She was notified about it but since she was at work it didn’t matter. I found jack****. No pictures, no notes, no emails. I couldn’t access her work email, but have since then and there was nothing there. Her work uses an IM program for communication. I found an email address in her saved usernames and passwords for hotmail/outlook. It was a mans name, not her co-worker. I tried in on Facebook but didn’t find anything. My wife said her computer stores emails randomly, ones that she types in for something else. Sure. Nothing in her internet history. She didn’t have the box ticked to clear saved usernames and passwords, though.


----------



## L81R

Dyokemm said:


> She is NEVER going to willingly give up that name......as soon as OP got the name, his WW knows the A will be blown wide open.....her carefully kept secret world would be exposed to the light of day, and all the little details would eventually emerge.
> 
> At this moment, the fact OP does not know the name of POSOM is the dam holding back the flood waters......
> 
> She believes that everything will remain in the realm of deniability as long as she can keep his identity secret.......and to a certain extent this is true.
> 
> OP is limited in evidence for exposure of his W’s waywardness without knowing who the OM even is.......it is essentially a he said/she said standoff where as long as she keeps denying, further facts that show her traitorous behavior remain hidden.
> 
> But....there is a ‘fly in her ointment’ at the moment......OP’s WW is definitely taking a calculated risk.
> 
> Because if any of the DNA tests come back showing OP is NOT the father, then the exact name of OM does nothing to save her M and lifestyle.....at that point, the only beneficiary of her silence would be POSOM.
> 
> This is why it is definitely suspicious IMO that WW is unwilling to do pre-natal DNA testing......and the funny thing about her resistance is that it will make her look guilty even if it turns out her BH is the father.....
> 
> It has not apparently registered in her head yet that people with no reason to fear DNA tests (or revealing a text sender’s identity for that matter) have no problem with agreeing to them.....
> 
> In fact, the test/revelation BENEFITS them because it proves they are truthful and have nothing to hide.....
> 
> Everything WW is doing at the moment is screaming ‘Guilty’.


Why does she want to protect OM’s ass more than our marriage? How is the going to explain to the kids that daddy isn’t really their dad. Is he going to be able to get some sort of rights to “my” kids if he wants them? A question for my lawyer. She says she wants to save our marriage and our family, but not as much as she wants to protect her ****buddy/buddies. 

I think you are right. She thinks if she denies, denies, denies, I’ll never find out exactly what has been going on. She can’t slip up if all she does is deny. I cannot wait to tell her that I know the name of the OM and who he is. I’ll be blowing up both of their lives. 

Out of 4 DNA tests, and her having been ****ing someone else, there has to be a high chance of at least one of them coming back as not mine. Maybe she already knows somehow, or knows the chances. If she was confident though, she would have agreed to the DNA tests on our kids and would want to do a prenatal DNA test to clear this up before the baby comes.


----------



## Chaparral

If you can get access to her phone or maybe even a burner phone, text him to meet her. It will have to be a good story or he will not fall for it. Maybe tell him she needs to meet because you are suspicious. 

Of course he could be using a burner phone that can’t be tracked.

Does she know you were tracking her at lunch?


----------



## Chaparral

How far away was the area code of his phone?


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

L81R said:


> Yup. In the damn dyer. We have two sets of washer/dryers, one is in use and the other isn’t. When we bought the house it already had a set, we had a set as well, and we kept both. I found the laptop inside the drum of the unused dryer. But she has nothing to hide? I didn’t know her password, she changed it from the password she use to use (our cats name). I reset the password on her computer. She was notified about it but since she was at work it didn’t matter. I found jack****. No pictures, no notes, no emails. I couldn’t access her work email, but have since then and there was nothing there. Her work uses an IM program for communication. I found an email address in her saved usernames and passwords for hotmail/outlook. It was a mans name, not her co-worker. I tried in on Facebook but didn’t find anything. My wife said her computer stores emails randomly, ones that she types in for something else. Sure. Nothing in her internet history. She didn’t have the box ticked to clear saved usernames and passwords, though.


Take her laptop. Insert broken hard drive. Keep her new hard drive. Have professional perform full forensics including de-crypting any saved passwords and then install keylogger. Reinsert hard drive. Do it fast enough she never knows.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

Who puts a laptop in a dryer? There has to be _something_ on that. I've heard of people "cleaning" their laptop of data, but never in the washing machine, and certainly never in the dryer.


----------



## L81R

Chaparral said:


> How far away was the area code of his phone?





Chaparral said:


> If you can get access to her phone or maybe even a burner phone, text him to meet her. It will have to be a good story or he will not fall for it. Maybe tell him she needs to meet because you are suspicious.
> 
> Of course he could be using a burner phone that can’t be tracked.
> 
> Does she know you were tracking her at lunch?


If she has warned him that I know, and I’m sure she has, I don’t know what story I’d use to get him to meet. I’d expect him to want to call and confirm. Based on the text they hadn’t talked for “a long time” and she didn’t respond to that text from what I could see (and she said that she didn’t). Maybe replying to that text is a starting point? For all I know though, she has replied to him in some other way (email, calling from work). I’ll have to think on it. 

If he is using a burner phone can a PI figure out who he is? That would be a pre-paid phone? 

She doesn’t know that I have followed her at lunch. It might be the only thing that she doesn’t know. She has gone to the same parking garage 27 times. I tried following her in, where she parks is cardholder only. She has no need to be a cardholder, I doubt it is her card. I’ve walked in and found her car empty, I couldn’t wait around long enough to see if she came back with anyone. The GPS tracker I have shows her leave 50-72 minutes later. Her lunch break is an hour, so she has gone back to work late. Not only is the OM more important than me, our marriage and our family, but also more important than her job. 

The area code is about 4.5 hours away. It could be further, as it extends quite far. Statistically, based on the major city in that area it would be about 4.5 hours away. So her taking off on her lunch breaks to the same place every single time, doesn’t add up 100%. Not to meet him, anyway.


----------



## L81R

Tatsuhiko said:


> Who puts a laptop in a dryer? There has to be _something_ on that. I've heard of people "cleaning" their laptop of data, but never in the washing machine, and certainly never in the dryer.


Whatever she has on there, I haven't been able to find. I know there is something, why else would she hide it - let alone in *the dryer*.


----------



## L81R

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Take her laptop. Insert broken hard drive. Keep her new hard drive. Have professional perform full forensics including de-crypting any saved passwords and then install keylogger. Reinsert hard drive. Do it fast enough she never knows.


I'm not sure where her old hard drive is, or if it was even broken. I have a suspicion that she trashed the other hard drive to completely hide whatever she was hiding. Do keyloggers work on macs?


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

yes


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

L81R said:


> If she has warned him that I know, and I’m sure she has, I don’t know what story I’d use to get him to meet. I’d expect him to want to call and confirm. Based on the text they hadn’t talked for “a long time” and she didn’t respond to that text from what I could see (and she said that she didn’t). Maybe replying to that text is a starting point? For all I know though, she has replied to him in some other way (email, calling from work). I’ll have to think on it.
> 
> If he is using a burner phone can a PI figure out who he is? That would be a pre-paid phone?
> 
> She doesn’t know that I have followed her at lunch. It might be the only thing that she doesn’t know. She has gone to the same parking garage 27 times. I tried following her in, where she parks is cardholder only. She has no need to be a cardholder, I doubt it is her card. I’ve walked in and found her car empty, I couldn’t wait around long enough to see if she came back with anyone. The GPS tracker I have shows her leave 50-72 minutes later. Her lunch break is an hour, so she has gone back to work late. Not only is the OM more important than me, our marriage and our family, but also more important than her job.
> 
> The area code is about 4.5 hours away. It could be further, as it extends quite far. Statistically, based on the major city in that area it would be about 4.5 hours away. So her taking off on her lunch breaks to the same place every single time, doesn’t add up 100%. Not to meet him, anyway.


Should not be really hard to have someone follow her from garage.


----------



## L81R

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Should not be really hard to have someone follow her from garage.


Someone she doesn't recognize, no. The garage connects directly to a condo unit and office buildings. Cardholders have a designated spot to park, VIP parking essentially. Their own spots, closer to the exits, larger spots, 24/7 monitoring, an attendant is always there. I found the card in my wife's car, hidden behind her insurance card in a folder, in the glove box. I have the spot number, #26. A PI may be able to find out who owns that spot, I don't want to go crazy with money though. I have one friend that my wife doesn't know, who was also cheated on, and would probably help me out - see where she goes.


----------



## honcho

There are tests to dna a child before it is born. Tell her you want that test done. 

You've been chasing this for months, at what point do you pull the plug and just file for divorce? You clearly don't trust her, her actions aren't trustworthy and show no signs of changing.


----------



## L81R

honcho said:


> There are tests to dna a child before it is born. Tell her you want that test done.
> 
> You've been chasing this for months, at what point do you pull the plug and just file for divorce? You clearly don't trust her, her actions aren't trustworthy and show no signs of changing.


I have told her to get the test done, she won't. Her reasoning is that the test costs around $1200, results can take two weeks, she is due in 4 weeks and might be induced sooner, and she "doesn't want the stress of me acting this way". We all know the real reason she doesn't want to have the test done. She doesn't want to be dumped on the corner right before she gives birth. If she KNEW without a doubt that I was the father and had nothing to hide, she'd fork over the money to do it and get it over with before the birth. 

I am meeting with a lawyer this week to file for divorce. That doesn't mean I don't want to know who she has been ****ing, what she has been doing, who fathered the kids and rip her a new one. I don't want to ever regret my decision of divorcing her or wonder what if's.


----------



## honcho

L81R said:


> I have told her to get the test done, she won't. Her reasoning is that the test costs around $1200, results can take two weeks, she is due in 4 weeks and might be induced sooner, and she "doesn't want the stress of me acting this way". We all know the real reason she doesn't want to have the test done. She doesn't want to be dumped on the corner right before she gives birth. If she KNEW without a doubt that I was the father and had nothing to hide, she'd fork over the money to do it and get it over with before the birth.
> 
> I am meeting with a lawyer this week to file for divorce. That doesn't mean I don't want to know who she has been ****ing, what she has been doing, who fathered the kids and rip her a new one. I don't want to ever regret my decision of divorcing her or wonder what if's.


File for divorce, have lawyer request the dna test done so your not listed as the father and let the lawyer be the bad guy pushing the subject. What you don't want is to be put on birth certificate on day one.


----------



## Tobyboy

I’m sure you’ve tried a reverse phone number search on the number. If not, try namefromphone.com. Or try searching the number on Facebook.


----------



## bandit.45

Do not sign that birth certificate whatever you do.


----------



## L81R

honcho said:


> File for divorce, have lawyer request the dna test done so your not listed as the father and let the lawyer be the bad guy pushing the subject. What you don't want is to be put on birth certificate on day one.


I like the suggestion of having my lawyer request the DNA test. I want it in writing that I am NOT signing for parental rights until I have the results in my hand. Where we live, nothing is signed in the hospital. It is done at home online. In theory my wife could fill out that I agree to paternity, she did for our 3rd because I didn’t care. It would be illegal and forging consent, but there would be no proof of that since it’s just a click of a button and typing your name. So I want it in writing that I have not signed anything. 

 Can she tamper with the DNA results? Have one of our other kids tested that she knows I fathered? I should demand that I’m present for the DNA swabs to be done. 



Tobyboy said:


> I’m sure you’ve tried a reverse phone number search on the number. If not, try namefromphone.com. Or try searching the number on Facebook.


Well look at that. I tried searching the phone number on a few different sites and found nothing. I put the number into that site and it told me where the number was registered and the carrier. The sites that I used prior suck. The number is in a small town, located 20 minutes from a military town and not near anything else. It is 4.5 hours from our house. I didn’t know that you can search phone number on Facebook, that’s sort of creepy. It didn’t find anything on that number. Which means the profile has the number hidden in privacy settings or doesn’t use that number for their profile? 

It doesn’t tell me much, but it’s more than I knew before. 

If he is military do I need to be more careful about proceeding? The majority of the people in that area are military. If he fathered any of my kids will courts favour him if he decides to fight for paternity once I blow this up?

Edit: Will that site actually tell me the owners name if I pay? It's legit?


----------



## eric1

Stuff like Spokeo is definitely legit, or as legit as they can be with data atleast.


----------



## Tobyboy

How long has your wife had her phone number? The one where you found the text.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

It's going to be hard, but in yours and kids best interests to divorce, from what I've read. There are no indications anyone wants to heal and confidently move forward. Sadly now the bandaid is best ripped off quickly in my opinion. You're the sane one.


----------



## L81R

Tobyboy said:


> How long has your wife had her phone number? The one where you found the text.


My wife has had the same number for years. I can't remember how long but it's been at least 7-8 years, quite possibly more. We married almost 10 years ago, she changed her number shortly after that.


----------



## Tobyboy

Do you know the dates of the received calls and texts?
Add nine months to the date of the calls and text. You know where I’m going with this....right?


----------



## L81R

Tobyboy said:


> Do you know the dates of the received calls and texts?
> Add nine months to the date of the calls and text. You know where I’m going with this....right?


The calls and text from that number where from this year, January 2018. Twice on Jan. 1st, then again on the 2nd, 5th and 9th. All incoming calls. The text was on the 9th. I couldn’t recover any other texts to or from that number, but she hasn’t had that phone for too long.


----------



## Nucking Futs

L81R said:


> I like the suggestion of having my lawyer request the DNA test. I want it in writing that I am NOT signing for parental rights until I have the results in my hand. Where we live, nothing is signed in the hospital. It is done at home online. In theory my wife could fill out that I agree to paternity, she did for our 3rd because I didn’t care. It would be illegal and forging consent, but there would be no proof of that since it’s just a click of a button and typing your name. So I want it in writing that I have not signed anything.
> 
> Can she tamper with the DNA results? Have one of our other kids tested that she knows I fathered? I should demand that I’m present for the DNA swabs to be done.
> 
> 
> 
> Well look at that. I tried searching the phone number on a few different sites and found nothing. I put the number into that site and it told me where the number was registered and the carrier. The sites that I used prior suck. The number is in a small town, located 20 minutes from a military town and not near anything else. It is 4.5 hours from our house. I didn’t know that you can search phone number on Facebook, that’s sort of creepy. It didn’t find anything on that number. Which means the profile has the number hidden in privacy settings or doesn’t use that number for their profile?
> 
> It doesn’t tell me much, but it’s more than I knew before.


Maybe not. My niece in Texas and my nephew in Minnesota both have Florida numbers. It doesn't much matter where the number originated any more.



L81R said:


> If he is military do I need to be more careful about proceeding? The majority of the people in that area are military. If he fathered any of my kids will courts favour him if he decides to fight for paternity once I blow this up?
> 
> Edit: Will that site actually tell me the owners name if I pay? It's legit?


No, he'll have no advantage in court. If anything it would be a disadvantage in a custody situation to be active duty military since they're subject to deployment. It's just nothing to worry about. 

On the other hand, it's against the UCMJ to have an affair so you might be able to get him in trouble with his unit. Probably not, though. I always recommend a BS try when the AP is military. It never hurts but rarely helps.


----------



## Chaparral

You need to check the paternity issue with your state laws. They vary from state to state. I have never heard of children raised by the husband of the mother having their biological father come forward and gaining any kind of relationship. Times have changed though and the lunatics are running the nuthouse. 

Have you read weightlifter’s evidence gathering thread?


----------



## Chaparral

You have a lot of questions a PI could get answers to quickly!


----------



## Chaparral

If your wife is due in four weeks you need to keep all this under your hat and act normal. You do not need to stress her out more than she already is. The baby, no matter who is the father, comes first.


----------



## VladDracul

Chaparral said:


> You need to check the paternity issue with your state laws. They vary from state to state. I have never heard of children raised by the husband of the mother having their biological father come forward and gaining any kind of relationship. Times have changed though and the lunatics are running the nuthouse.


I've heard of it a few times; usually after the kid has well bonded with the "step" father and the family and there is little or no chance of getting child support from the sire. One thing to keep in maind is that in many states, the man signing the birth certificate is the man stuck with child support even if the kids mother divorces the man she was married at the time of birth and marries the man that knocked her up. (yep, I've got an example of a Georgia case where that happened)


----------



## TAMAT

Make sure you check all the kids DNA, and then sue the biological fathers of the ones not yours for child support.

Tamat


----------



## bff

@L81R 

Some unsolicited advice that you might want to consider. I went through something similar about 5 years ago - discovered my wife of 9.5 yrs had been cheating on me with my "best friend" for more than half of my marriage. We didn't have any kids, so take my advice with a grain of salt - I don't have that perspective.

1 - You said you're coming up on 10 years of marriage. KNOW THE LAWS IN YOUR STATE! I'm in California, and if I had passed the 10 year mark of marriage, I would have had to pay alimony FOREVER. You said you're going to see an attorney soon - make sure you follow through on that and are informed so you can make smart decisions.

2 - You're clearly in a very highly emotional state. Who wouldn't be?? But, my advice is to find a way to look a little further ahead and make decisions that will not make things harder for YOU and your kids in the future, even if those decisions would feel really good from a revenge/emotion/"fairness" perspective. You said you'd like to have her served at work and get her fired. Think a step ahead... guess who will be PAYING MORE if she's unemployed? And she could drag her feet getting a new job and use that as leverage against you. That's just one small example. You have to put your feelings of betrayal aside and make SMART DECISIONS right now at this critical point. Don't do things you'll regret later.

3 - I haven't read the entire thread, so maybe you've already addressed this. Do you have someone you trust you can talk to about this stuff? TAM was a huge help for me, but I also had a really cool-headed friend who wouldn't just cheer on my emotional reactions ("yeah, go slash her tires!"), but would challenge me and give me tough love when I needed it to make smart decisions. You CAN'T carry this on your own shoulders, Brother.

4 - Have no expectations that your wife will come fully clean, even when presented with factual evidence. You'll probably never know the FULL truth of her infidelities. The sooner you can come to grips with that and move on, the sooner you can get yourself onto a path to a new and better life. Trust me, it's out there.

bff


----------



## Rubix Cubed

L81R said:


> The area code is about 4.5 hours away. It could be further, as it extends quite far. Statistically, based on the major city in that area it would be about 4.5 hours away. So her taking off on her lunch breaks to the same place every single time, doesn’t add up 100%. Not to meet him, anyway.


 I wouldn't put much faith in an area code meaning that's where the OM lives. People keep cell phone numbers now even when they move, so area code isn't much help.


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## VladDracul

L8, why don't you quit ****ing around and hire a PI? You don't have the resources to properly investigate this.


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## Cat4life

Trust me when I say no wife is happy with sex 1-2 times a month. Unless you have proof I use maintain her trust but be mindful. Continue to share your concerns and study her responses. Your concerns should be valid not raging insecurities. If you have concerns about baby, wait until baby can take a DNA test and test secretly if you are the father. Good Luck


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## toucheturtle

Have you thought this could be a spoof number.what about a goggle number to mask the real one.i was looking earlier on a website that you can by an alibi for $450.00.the parking garage #26 have thought about offering the attendant a Ben Franklin for info for a name.


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## manfromlamancha

L81R said:


> I have kept a VAR in my wife’s vehicle since November ’17. I have found very little to work with. I found a variety of calls to and from appointments, family members. Some calls to co-workers, including the OM but nothing convicting. I was expecting to hear a call of her flat out saying she is ****ing someone. That hasn’t happened. The warning calls have been from OM.
> 
> In February she had a call from the OM. She had taken 2 weeks off work for a medical reason. The first thing he said was “hey hun”. They talked about her medical issue pertaining to her pregnancy. He said he’s missed her and “the day sucks when you aren’t here”. Said they will “catch up” the following day when she’s back at work. However, he didn’t know she was going back to work another co-worker told him. So my wife didn’t tell him. But “hun”? No ****ing thank you. He called her “hun” in two more calls that week. Both were short calls asking if she was “almost there” and “see you soon”.
> 
> In January my wife had a series of phone calls from the same number that were not answered or called back. A number from out of our area that I didn’t recognize. I acknowledged it but couldn’t find anything on it.
> 
> I recovered deleted data on her phone after the February calls. She had deleted texts from a few people. Some random texts from family and friends, that didn’t seem to be anything. There was one text, which matched the number that had called her multiple times. The text came after the calls. No calls after the text.
> 
> *Hey [wife’s name], how are you? I know it’s been a long time since we last talked. I haven’t forgotten about what I did, and I want to apologize for it. I know I was a prick. It’s probably the furthest thing from your mind now, but regardless I’m sorry for the way I acted. I was immature, emotional and handled the situation terribly. It’s crazy to think about how close we were, how much I loved you, and where we are now. Strangers. What I had with you is irreplaceable. I want to apologize for our last day. Emotions got the best of me and my reaction was terrible. I get emotional now just thinking about it. I sincerely hope that things are better for you. You deserve it [wife’s name]. I have been thinking about you lately. I have every year at this time, but didn’t want to bother you. I know that I’m not your person anymore. I truly hope that you have found that in your husband and have stopped internalizing everything. So many memories come flooding back, I imagine it is the same for you – and unfortunately most are not good memories. I really hope that you all are doing well [wife’s name]. I am so sorry for everything [wife’s name]. So sorry. From things within my control and for the things totally out of my control. If I could fix it all or do it better, I would. I wish I could have supported you better rather than simply try and fix it. I wish I could have always been there for you, maybe it’s for the better that I couldn’t. I’d love to hear how you are doing, if that’s something you’d be interested in. If not, I hope you are doing well and wish you the best. I really do mean that. If you don't want to catch up, I'll take the hint and won't bother you again. It has been a long time and maybe there is too much water under the bridge, it's understandable. Either way, I sincerely hope you are doing well and I'm sorry.*
> 
> As soon as I saw that I immediately called my wife out on it. I shoved the ****ing computer in her face. All she did was start crying and call ME an *******, then locked herself in our bedroom. I straight out told her that I know she has been cheating and that baby isn’t mine. I said some things that I shouldn’t have said, including calling her a ***** with at least 3 baby-daddies. She will NOT admit to cheating. Not a single ****ing admission. Not even a hint at it or “just once”.
> 
> We are separated right now, but still living together. I refuse to leave my house. If she wants to sleep on the couch, so be it. She won’t move out and says that I’m crazy and she hasn’t cheated. Yet, when I suggested doing a 23andMe test on the baby, just to see what the results would be (this was before everything blew up). She immediately shut it down, saying it was a waste of money, didn’t want to have that information out there. Even though we’ve all already done them, for fun. She says she changed her mind and wouldn’t do it again because of privacy. In reality, it is because it will show that soon-to-be-born baby is half something other than me. At this point I don’t even know if it is the co-workers. She will NOT tell me who that message was really from. At first she said it was none of my business and that she didn’t respond to it. Then she said it was from her ex, who fathered her oldest child. I asked him about it when he showed up to pick up their kid, and he said it was not from him. It doesn’t make sense being from him anyway. They are in regular contact, they have a ****ing kid together. They had a relationship 15 years ago at 15, that’s not the kind of relationship feeling vibe I was getting. That is not his number or area code, and I’ve called the number numerous times. There is no personal voicemail message that says the name. I had an answer once, and was immediately hung up on. My number was blocked after that, called from different numbers and blocked numbers which were ignored.
> 
> All my wife does is cry. She won’t admit that she’s screwed around for god knows how long. She knows I am doing a DNA test on that baby when she’s born. She says to go ahead and do it, like I’m just supposed to decide not to. When is the trickle trothing supposed to start? It’s been about two weeks. Thus far she has stuck to her guns that oh she would never cheat, why am I being like this (again), I’m the *******, etc.
> 
> She put a new hard drive in her laptop recently. I saw the purchase on our amazon account. I learned earlier this year that at work they have an IM program to chat with co-workers about work related crap. That is going to be how she has been chatting to *********. I’ll never have access to that. I sent in DNA tests of our other kids, hopefully I’ll have those results soon.
> 
> We married because she was pregnant, unplanned. For all I know that isn’t even my child and she just stuck me with paternity because whoever else she was ****ing wasn’t sticking around. She’s hid it well, but messed up. We’re approaching a marriage of 10 years. A ****ing joke. I’m getting ready to serve her divorce papers. I’m meeting with a lawyer next week.



L18R I am not sure what your wife is up to. Her crossing boundaries with the Persian guy is bad enough. Her trips to the parking garage also very bad (and you do need to get to the bottom of that whatever it takes). The possibility of the kids not being yours - very bad but very easy to check. But what I have highlighted above in red is absolute proof for you. That is what you need to really focus on first and get to the bottom of. She definitely had an affair there! And that should be all you need to divorce her. And if she doesn't come clean and apologise on her knees, you have no chance whatsoever going forward. Divorce is the only option. And then it becomes just a matter of protecting yourself financially, and with respect to custody (providing the kids are yours) and the paternity of the unborn. Who cares if she is still ****ing around?

What are you doing about the proof that is staring you in the face ? Sleeping in separate rooms is a good first step. Filing for divorce is a good second step ? What else ? Have you exposed her to anyone else / Family ? Friends ? You have a definite cheater on your hands and so far, she has done nothing to be honest leave alone show true remorse! You have no reason to wait for anything.


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## [email protected]

L81R said:


> If he is military do I need to be more careful about proceeding? The majority of the people in that area are military. If he fathered any of my kids will courts favour him if he decides to fight for paternity once I blow this up?


If he's military then he is in big trouble. If you contact his unit commander, you're going to get help. They really don't want this in the military and clamp down on it. 

You asked when "trickle truth" happens. With this one, after she has no choice but to admit. So for example, after paternity is proven with another guy, she will admit to doing it once with him. After the pictures from the PI are produced showing them together in the parking garage or whatever, she will acknowledge that and no more. 

When this type of person is in a live or die position like a divorce they absolutely do not want, then that will be a time something will come out, only as a strategy to demonstrate fake contrition. But it won't be much of a trickle.


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## Nucking Futs

toucheturtle said:


> Have you thought this could be a spoof number.what about a goggle number to mask the real one.i was looking earlier on a website that you can by an alibi for $450.00.t*he parking garage #26 have thought about offering the attendant a Ben Franklin for info for a name.*


You should have already hired a pi to get info for you, including the name attached to #26. If you can't afford a pi then you should try the part in bold. Why are you being so passive about this?


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## L81R

Is it acceptable to message the man my wife is ****ing, and that mans wife? Or am I acting on rage that I am going to regret later.


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## eric1

You SHOULD message his wife. Don’t message him, it’ll just allow him time to create a cover up


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## Evinrude58

Don’t do anything without consulting an attorney. NEVER do anything in a highly charged, emotional state of mind.


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## Edmund

L81R said:


> Is it acceptable to message the man my wife is ****ing, and that mans wife? Or am I acting on rage that I am going to regret later.


If you are enraged there must be some additional events since you last posted. Did you find out who parking spot #26 belongs to? Did you get pre-natal DNA results on baby Byron? Did she confess?

Regardless, I think just suddenly acting based on rage may not be wise, unlesss you have all the facts now, and know where you are going with this.


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## stro

Maybe the wife, not the man though. But I wouldn’t do anything out of anger. Wait until you are calm and can make a logical calculated decision. Acting on emotion rarely results in great decisions.


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## L81R

the text and the parking spot belong to the same person


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## tom72

L81R said:


> the text and the parking spot belong to the same person


Don't do anything out of rage.

Build the evidence room up


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## L81R

My wife is a ****ing *****. There is nothing else to figure out, it’s all smacking me in the face. She has spent YEARS ****ing this man. They are not friends on Facebook but clearly use to be because there is evidence of him all over the place. He has liked or commented on photos that she has posted as far back as 2007, which predates us as a couple. The text and parking spot both belong to him. This week alone she went there twice. If I would have followed her I guarantee she’d have gone to the condos attached to the parking garage. The phone number is registered in a town 4.5 hours away and the man’s Facebook profile says he lives there, yet he has a parking spot in my city? Is he such a tool that he has a condo just to **** married women? Speaking of marriage, the man is married. My wife is such a ***** that she’s ****ing a married man. As if ruining one marriage and one family wasn’t enough she’s going for twice the destruction. His Facebook profile says he is married and has been since 2014. His wife’s newest profile picture was uploaded February 26th and is a maternity picture. Looks like they have another child as well. 

Our three children are mine, but that is luck of the draw at this point. I haven’t told her that I have the results. I’m going to tell her I know that one of them isn’t mine, I have proof and see how she reacts. I doubt she will be surprised. Unless she is surprised that 2 of the 3 are mine. She’s a ****ing *****. That baby is not going to be mine, I can feel it. We tried for two ****ing years to get pregnant, she was probably doing something to prevent it. She is so against a DNA test for that baby that it’s obvious it’s not mine. She has continued to see this man throughout her pregnancy, which makes it more obvious. I doubt he’d want anything to do with her if she was pregnant by me rather than himself. This all became glaringly obvious after she became pregnant, and especially after a few months which is coincidentally when she had prenatal testing done for genetic defects, downs, etc. She probably already had a DNA test done on that baby or it showed up with a ********* gene. 

So she’s ****ing this man, and a man from her work. Who else is banging my wife? Thank ****ing god I’ve met with a lawyer and have started the process of divorcing my wife. It makes me sick even calling her my wife now. I want nothing to do with that woman. 

Don’t ever get married folks. Women are just a bunch of *****s who will **** any man over. 

I’m messaging this *******, and his wife. The ***** who use to be my wife can find her bags on the front lawn after her shift on Monday.


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## chillymorn69

Horrible horrible horrible

Try to calm down. Go dark on her don't talk to her keep your mouth shut.

Dna test the baby!

May you find the strength to navigate this horrible tough time in your life.

You can do it! Take some deep breaths and try to remember you will eventually get throught this.


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## Tobyboy

Your timeline doesn’t match up. The text your wife received from the out of town number appeared like they haven’t talked in a long time. Yet, she’s been using his parking spot for a while prior to the texts in January? Something not right here.


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## eric1

Do not contact him, only contact his wife.


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## Marc878

L81R said:


> My wife is a ****ing *****. There is nothing else to figure out, it’s all smacking me in the face. She has spent YEARS ****ing this man. They are not friends on Facebook but clearly use to be because there is evidence of him all over the place. He has liked or commented on photos that she has posted as far back as 2007, which predates us as a couple. The text and parking spot both belong to him. This week alone she went there twice. If I would have followed her I guarantee she’d have gone to the condos attached to the parking garage. The phone number is registered in a town 4.5 hours away and the man’s Facebook profile says he lives there, yet he has a parking spot in my city? Is he such a tool that he has a condo just to **** married women? Speaking of marriage, the man is married. My wife is such a ***** that she’s ****ing a married man. As if ruining one marriage and one family wasn’t enough she’s going for twice the destruction. His Facebook profile says he is married and has been since 2014. His wife’s newest profile picture was uploaded February 26th and is a maternity picture. Looks like they have another child as well.
> 
> Our three children are mine, but that is luck of the draw at this point. I haven’t told her that I have the results. I’m going to tell her I know that one of them isn’t mine, I have proof and see how she reacts. I doubt she will be surprised. Unless she is surprised that 2 of the 3 are mine. She’s a ****ing *****. That baby is not going to be mine, I can feel it. We tried for two ****ing years to get pregnant, she was probably doing something to prevent it. She is so against a DNA test for that baby that it’s obvious it’s not mine. She has continued to see this man throughout her pregnancy, which makes it more obvious. I doubt he’d want anything to do with her if she was pregnant by me rather than himself. This all became glaringly obvious after she became pregnant, and especially after a few months which is coincidentally when she had prenatal testing done for genetic defects, downs, etc. She probably already had a DNA test done on that baby or it showed up with a ********* gene.
> 
> So she’s ****ing this man, and a man from her work. Who else is banging my wife? Thank ****ing god I’ve met with a lawyer and have started the process of divorcing my wife. It makes me sick even calling her my wife now. I want nothing to do with that woman.
> 
> Don’t ever get married folks. Women are just a bunch of *****s who will **** any man over.
> 
> I’m messaging this *******, and his wife. The ***** who use to be my wife can find her bags on the front lawn after her shift on Monday.


So how did you get your info?


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## L81R

Tobyboy said:


> Your timeline doesn’t match up. The text your wife received from the out of town number appeared like they haven’t talked in a long time. Yet, she’s been using his parking spot for a while prior to the texts in January? Something not right here.


I don’t know what the text was about, the context behind it or what was up with the timing. At this point I’m not sure I give a **** either. It doesn't add up, no, I put more weight in the fact that she is meeting him than a text.


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## Windwalker

Did you get a P,I,?
If not, get one and get all the evidence you can.


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## Rubix Cubed

eric1 said:


> Do not contact him, only contact his wife.


 @L81R , 
You need to SERIOUSLY listen to this.^^^^
No good will come from you contacting this man. You think he will be regreful or scared ... He won't. You are just giving away what control you have now. TELL HIS WIFE ONLY. That will wreck his world far more than you telling him, and then him making a cover story about the crazy controlling husband of a friend who thinks she's cheating, when you can't get a hold of his wife immediately after speaking with him. Just don't.


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## Evinrude58

Good chance om’s wofe already knows his cheating ways. Be wary about tell g her. She may not GAF and will tell yhim I to F off.


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## Marc878

L81R said:


> I don’t know what the text was about, the context behind it or what was up with the timing. At this point I’m not sure I give a **** either. It doesn't add up, no, I put more weight in the fact that she is meeting him than a text.



Sorry man but at least you know and are not in the dark any longer.

Now get yourself out of infidelity.

Tell the other betrayed spouse without warning.

If it were me I'd leave my wedding ring tied to her steering wheel the next time she went to the parking spot. Actions speak more than anything you can say.


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## tom72

Hows things?

Hope you haven't done anything too bad out of anger!


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## SUCKA

I followed last night then missed parts today. Good luck. You are not paranoid. Go with you gut.


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## VFW

Just to play the devil's advocate, what are you going to do if you find out the baby is yours? As for paternity, most states you are assumed to be the father off all children while married and up to as much as 10 months after the divorce. You need real legal advice on this issue, based on your state laws.


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## Edmund

What if the text guy that owns the condo and parking space is a former lover and now a “good friend” who is allowing her to use the condo to meet up with Bayan the Persian?


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## Chaparral

Your wife knows you know she is cheating and she still went to see him twice this past week. That’s bold.


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## Chaparral

You want to contact him to tell him about her other boyfriend?


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## re16

If you have a name, you could check the county recorder's / assessor's office to see what property he owns to get the complete address. Usually you can search online. If he is renting, this wouldn't apply.


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## Marc878

You ok? How's it going?


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## Just another

11 days since last post. I hope he is ok.


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## jlg07

@L81R -- just checking up on you -- we all hope you are ok.


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## Edmund

Folks, I suspect that L81R wife has given birth and he is dealing with whatever issues arising from that event. Perhaps we should leave him be and just pray that something good happens for him.


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## Sparta

Hey buddy you’ve been served nasty sh!t sandwich.! And I hope that you’re taking care of yourself. If and when you can please update us.! people really do care around here, Plus you’re going to need all the support you can get. Hope to hear from you soon


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## drifting on

L81

Take the parking card out of your wife’s car, take multiple pictures of it in her car first, then go buy a I’m sorry card. Put the parking card in the sorry card and give to your PI, have the PI deliver the card to OM’s wife with a note inside. On the note you write, my wife doesn’t need this anymore, she just gave birth and can’t come over for lunch with your husband anymore. Here is my number if you have any questions. 

Angry but calculated.


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## L81R

We have a 3 week old daughter, who is my biological daughter. My wife will not speak a word to me. I wasn’t present at my daughters birth, I didn’t want to be there. I am not on her birth certificate. I didn’t hold her until she was 2 weeks old and I had the DNA results back. My wife has muttered that she wants the divorce to go through. She plans on moving out. After our daughter was born I called, messaged, texted the man whose parking spot she uses. I messaged his wife as well, who saw the messages but didn’t respond. Her husband did after I contacted her, his response was: 

“You don’t know your wife very well, do you? Yes, I have had sex with her. 13 years ago. And no, I am not the father of [my step son] or any of her other children. Go talk to your wife. You have been with her for 10 years for god’s sake. It’s not my story to tell. Talk to your wife man, or keep believing that I’m ****ing her.” 

Last night he messaged me this:

“Listen. I don’t know how you’ve gone 10 years without knowing a thing about your wife but here it goes. I grew up with your wife. From age 3 to 18 she was my best friend. We were inseparable. She was raped when she was 13. That is where every struggle she has stems from. She was my best friend and I was there for her through all of her challenges. I was young and stupid and believed if I loved her enough I could fix her and cure her pain. We started a relationship at 15, when she was pregnant with -. She thought promiscuity would give her back a sense of control over her body. She didn’t know who her son’s father was and I filled that role for 2.5 years. We broke up because it was more than I could handle, or wanted to handle. Towards the end of our relationship I treated her very poorly because I was trying to detach myself and her. I joined the army and didn’t tell her until the day I was leaving and ended our relationship. I hurt her immensely, and her son as to him I was his dad. 

- is seeing a therapist. One of the best for sexual assault therapists in the country. The building across from the parking garage is full of office buildings. Her therapist and psychiatrist are in that building. That spot is in my name because I had the connections to get her into that practice. I have always made sure she had the access to go, partly due to guilt. Why she hasn’t told you is on you and her, not me. The reason she has been going more often is for her to tell you. You read too far into that text, man. Talk to your wife. 

Hey, how are you? I know it’s been a long time since we last talked *(years)*. I haven’t forgotten about what I did, and I want to apologize for it. I know I was a prick. *(I treated her very poorly at the end of our relationship, ended it poorly)* It’s probably the furthest thing from your mind now, but regardless I’m sorry for the way I acted. I was immature, emotional and handled the situation terribly *(the way I chose to break up with her and how I handled her trauma)*. It’s crazy to think about how close we were *(we were close, inseparable friends)*, how much I loved you *(we were together for 3 years)*, and where we are now. Strangers. What I had with you is irreplaceable *(our friendship and bond)*. I want to apologize for our last day *(when I ended our relationship)*. Emotions got the best of me and my reaction was terrible (the way I acted the day I was breaking up with her and how I decided to end the relationship). I get emotional now just thinking about it. I sincerely hope that things are better for you *(she struggled after being raped)*. You deserve it. I have been thinking about you lately. I have every year at this time, but didn’t want to bother you *(date I ended our relationship/anniversary of being raped)*. I know that I’m not your person anymore. I truly hope that you have found that in your husband and have stopped internalizing everything. So many memories come flooding back, I imagine it is the same for you – and unfortunately most are not good memories *(about how much we struggled after she was raped, how she reacted to our break up)*. I really hope that you all are doing well. I am so sorry for everything. So sorry. From things within my control and for the things totally out of my control. If I could fix it all or do it better, I would. I wish I could have supported you better rather than simply try and fix it *(I thought if I loved her enough I could fix her)*. I wish I could have always been there for you, maybe it’s for the better that I couldn’t. I’d love to hear how you are doing, if that’s something you’d be interested in. If not, I hope you are doing well and wish you the best. I really do mean that. If you don't want to catch up, I'll take the hint and won't bother you again. It has been a long time and maybe there is too much water under the bridge, it's understandable. Either way, I sincerely hope you are doing well and I'm sorry.”

Who thinks that is believable and not simply a method of getting out of trouble from his wife? I have not talked to my wife about it, seeing as she will not speak to me about anything. What he has said does not match up with what my wife has told me over the years regarding her past. She was never raped, nor was she in a relationship after her son was born and she was with her sons father and not sleeping around. She has never mentioned a “best friend” to me. She wouldn’t be seeing a therapist 18 years later and if she were she would surely be talking to me about it not letting me think she’s having an affair.


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## Marc878

Man he's come up with a great cover story. You should have just informed his wife.

Cheaters lie a lot.


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## Cynthia

If she is seeing a therapist, she should get EOB's (Explanation of Benefits) from the insurance company for each visit. 
I wouldn't be quick to discount the story he gave you. I personally would want to verify the information, after all you haven't been able to prove that she is cheating and the baby has been proven to be yours. 

I understand that you have a bad feeling that your wife is/was cheating, but you are also highly emotional. I understand that it is emotional to think your spouse may be cheating on you, but it could also be that you are thinking with your emotions. If this is how you usually respond to difficult circumstances, it is entirely possible that your wife hasn't wanted to tell you the truth of her life due to shame and not feeling safe in telling you the deep things in her heart.

I hope your kids are not seeing all this drama before their eyes. This is bad for them and it's bad for the baby - YOUR BABY. 

The kind of stress that your wife is under with your highly emotional negative behavior and attitude can cause her harm.

You really need to calm down. I'm a little worried for your family. You seem like you could become violent.


----------



## Sparta

I wouldn’t believe one f.ucking word this guy saying he’s covering his ass just like you think. Carry-on with the divorce business as usual buddy you. Your POS wife and her AP have themselves what a Real Piece of work this guy is.! they’re perfect for each other... The only unfortunate situation is that your children have to be with her half of their lives that’s f.ucked up...


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## Beach123

I notice the long lost friend never stated that he isn't having sex with your wife now! 

He deflected by saying he had sex with her but it was many years ago. 

But your wife's behavior is that she was having an affair... and my gut says she has been having an affair. 

She may not get honest ever! But if you can't trust her and she's u willing to be honest then there's no value in the marriage. 

She may be mad you're on to her...which doesn't equate that she's actually sorry she wasn't honest with you.

And that's guy's text... hmmm. Seems like a cover - especially since your wife never told you about him. She also didn't tell about "seeing a counselor" - so at best she's been leaving out important info for your entire relationship! 

You really have no idea who she is. But I'd bet money she wasn't seeing a counselor twice a week. Where I am you'd see close to $450 going out every week...you'd also get a statement from the ins company!

She hiding a LOT! Lying by omission is still lying. 

She mad she's caught... don't let her fool you even further!


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## Red Sonja

> Listen. I don’t know how you’ve gone 10 years without knowing a thing about your wife but here it goes.* I grew up with your wife. From age 3 to 18 she was my best friend. We were inseparable. She was raped when she was 13.* That is where every struggle she has stems from. She was my best friend and I was there for her through all of her challenges. I was young and stupid and believed if I loved her enough I could fix her and cure her pain.* We started a relationship at 15,* when she was pregnant with -. She thought promiscuity would give her back a sense of control over her body. She didn’t know who her son’s father was and I filled that role for 2.5 years. We broke up because it was more than I could handle, or wanted to handle. Towards the end of our relationship I treated her very poorly because I was trying to detach myself and her.* I joined the army and didn’t tell her until the day I was leaving and ended our relationship. I hurt her immensely, and her son as to him I was his dad.*


Really?! Why then have you never heard of any of the bolded before? Hint: OM is making **** up OR your wife has been hiding a lot of important events from you. Neither is good.




> - is seeing a therapist. One of the best for sexual assault therapists in the country. *The building across from the parking garage is full of office buildings. Her therapist and psychiatrist are in that building.* That spot is in my name because I had the connections to get her into that practice. I have always made sure she had the access to go, partly due to guilt. Why she hasn’t told you is on you and her, not me. The reason she has been going more often is for her to tell you. You read too far into that text, man. Talk to your wife.


Uh huh, as if every office building doesn't come with it's own parking facilities for clients ... which they do. He expects you to believe that your wife has been seeing a therapist and psychiatrist without telling you? More bull****.

For what it's worth, I think the referenced "text" was "throwing a hook" in order for OM to insert himself back into your wife's life.

You need to bypass this chump and talk directly to OMW.


----------



## sokillme

Go to the building and check. Hire a PI he can help you with records and stuff. The most suspicious of all of this stuff is she doesn't even talk to you. If the story is true she could have told you. She didn't, not a good sign. 

If she is cheating then be thankful you can get away from this crazy.


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## L81R

He didn’t respond to me until after I contacted his wife, which makes me assume it is a cover up. Who has no desire to contact me. 

In terms of verifying his story, I haven’t done much. I don’t have the energy to play detective and my thoughts may as well be in Mandarin because I cannot comprehend them. I’m set on divorce then this comes along and shakes me up enough to second guess myself. I did search what offices are in the building mentioned, and there is a rape counselor there who appears to be highly rated. This is a large city with a lot of street parking and underground parking. There is no lot designated solely to that building. Street parking is expensive and hard to find. We are in Canada and our insurance works differently. I have never seen any insurance forms or bills, however we don’t always get them. When I have used our insurance, I’ve never had anything other than a bill saying what they paid and what I paid. Our insurance covers 80%, and I have seen no transactions on her debit or ABM withdrawals. Our insurance is through her work, because she had a far better plan and rate (pharmacy worker). 
@CynthiaDe I have been with my wife for 10 years, why would she have stayed married to me if she felt so insecure that she couldn’t tell me anything about her past? If his cover up is true then she lied about everything. I think you are the one overreacting by saying I’m going to become violet. That came out of no where. I am not happy with the situation our kids are living in right now, but at the moment it is the way that it is. 

So I’m either married to a liar, or a cheat. Or both.


----------



## L81R

@jmsclayton Our sex life is non-existent. Prior to that it was not great. We didn't have sex often (once a week at the very most) and it was poor quality. No interest from her, no effort, rushed, detached.


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## Beach123

Did this guy from her childhood know she was seeing that top rated counselor?


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## Edmund

L81R said:


> He didn’t respond to me until after I contacted his wife, which makes me assume it is a cover up. Who has no desire to contact me.
> 
> In terms of verifying his story, I haven’t done much. I don’t have the energy to play detective and my thoughts may as well be in Mandarin because I cannot comprehend them. I’m set on divorce then this comes along and shakes me up enough to second guess myself. I did search what offices are in the building mentioned, and there is a rape counselor there who appears to be highly rated. This is a large city with a lot of street parking and underground parking. There is no lot designated solely to that building. Street parking is expensive and hard to find. We are in Canada and our insurance works differently. I have never seen any insurance forms or bills, however we don’t always get them. When I have used our insurance, I’ve never had anything other than a bill saying what they paid and what I paid. Our insurance covers 80%, and I have seen no transactions on her debit or ABM withdrawals. Our insurance is through her work, because she had a far better plan and rate (pharmacy worker).
> 
> @CynthiaDe I have been with my wife for 10 years, why would she have stayed married to me if she felt so insecure that she couldn’t tell me anything about her past? If his cover up is true then she lied about everything. I think you are the one overreacting by saying I’m going to become violet. That came out of no where. I am not happy with the situation our kids are living in right now, but at the moment it is the way that it is.
> 
> So I’m either married to a liar, or a cheat. Or both.


Or maybe neither, just a broken person who can't talk with you about a hidden trauma she suffered years ago. You now have 4 children including a new baby. Maybe hold off doing anything rash until you can process this news.

And commenters, the old friend's story could be true. I would think her parents would know.
None of us saw this possibility. I was expecting the baby to be half Persian.

She isn't talking to him because he wasn't there for the birth of his new daughter because he doesn't trust her. But he doesn't trust her because she has apparently kept a lot of secrets from him.


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## poida

Look, it doesn't matter who did what to whom. 
Focus on your own life and move on. You'll be better off for it.


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## manfromlamancha

L18R, just a few questions to clarify:

Are you convinced/sure that your wife is ****ing somebody else at the moment ? What you have said so far seems to point to it - no sex with you, somehow got pregnant, secretive, calls to other men, Persian guy, lifelong friend, etc. If you are convinced, then really all you need to do is disentangle yourself from her. If you are not sure, then you need to find out for sure - use a (good) PI and your own snooping. It sounds like she is experienced at keeping things covered up AND workplace affairs are sometimes hard to prove but you need to get it done.

Do you believe this POS's story about your wife's past ? Again it would seem that it seems to have been brought forward to you (in an arrogant manner I might add - "you don't know your wife etc") only when you contacted his wife. Also the deflection is well thought out but quite common - "your wife was raped when young and I was there for her", "she is suffering and I was not a good friend", "you need to sort it out with her and have better communications" - heck, he could have pieced together that story within minutes of reading this forum! Again it needs to be verified, and this one would be harder to do without a poly which your wife will never take - so tough one - you are going to have to make a judgement call and my bets are that there may be some truth to it and this has been used to muddy the water and cover up what has really been going on. The truth part of it may be that she really did have some relationship with him, and what may be covered up is the fact that she always continued to **** him from time to time.

Finally, are you convinced that the baby is not yours? This is the easiest to prove and you should get it done regardless of what she says. If not, then it would be useful but not necessary to know who the real baby daddy is. It would seem that this third question is the easiest to answer and renders the first two questions null and void, so this is the one thing that I would do straight away!


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## jewels465

L81R said:


> He didn’t respond to me until after I contacted his wife, which makes me assume it is a cover up. Who has no desire to contact me.
> 
> 
> 
> In terms of verifying his story, I haven’t done much. I don’t have the energy to play detective and my thoughts may as well be in Mandarin because I cannot comprehend them. I’m set on divorce then this comes along and shakes me up enough to second guess myself. I did search what offices are in the building mentioned, and there is a rape counselor there who appears to be highly rated. This is a large city with a lot of street parking and underground parking. There is no lot designated solely to that building. Street parking is expensive and hard to find. We are in Canada and our insurance works differently. I have never seen any insurance forms or bills, however we don’t always get them. When I have used our insurance, I’ve never had anything other than a bill saying what they paid and what I paid. Our insurance covers 80%, and I have seen no transactions on her debit or ABM withdrawals. Our insurance is through her work, because she had a far better plan and rate (pharmacy worker).
> 
> 
> @CynthiaDe I have been with my wife for 10 years, why would she have stayed married to me if she felt so insecure that she couldn’t tell me anything about her past? If his cover up is true then she lied about everything. I think you are the one overreacting by saying I’m going to become violet. That came out of no where. I am not happy with the situation our kids are living in right now, but at the moment it is the way that it is.
> 
> 
> 
> So I’m either married to a liar, or a cheat. Or both.




FWIW, 
I have been married 10 yrs. and have been raped and have never told my husband. I do have people who know that I grew up with. It’s something you try to forget. So it’s possible she’s done what I have done. I’m not in counseling for it though. Still, I believe the that she may have been working up the nerve to tell you. It’s a hard thing to talk about. 
Do you still love your wife? You guys really need to sit down and have a heart to heart. Hope you get some answers. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Chaparral

@Manfrmlamamncha

It’s his baby according to his update.

Good Lord, this is a sticky wicket. I would write down everything you thought was going on with her and her so called ex. Not the Persian. She won’t talk to you but she will read what you write. 

Then ask her to explain why she has lied to you about it all. She has been hiding a significant part of her life. True or not she is responsible for this mess. If she is unwilling to prove her story then I would divorce her and tell her so called ex’s wife no proof is out there to be had.

His letter to you is very plausible but it could also be complete bullish!t. Your wife has lied about something and she could have come clean easily enough long before this.


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## stro

If that’s a cover story then it’s a pretty good/elaborate one. I’m guessing there is a lot of truth in it. Your investigation into your wife’s behavior showed no proof of infidelity correct? And the baby IS verified to be yours as well as your other children correct? Look I’m not saying she isn’t cheating but What your investigation DID show you is that your wife has massive trust issues. If the story in the text is legit it explains most of this. A secret she has buried so deep she was willing to let her marriage fall apart over it because she could not talk to you about it. Well now you know. If you still love her and want to continue your life with her then you need to have a conversion with her. If she refuses to talk to you then as someone else said, write it all down. I know most people here assume she was cheating, and maybe she was, But this is at least worth the effort. Its possible she HAS been faithful to you and all this was over a deep trauma she has suffered as a kid.


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## OutofRetirement

I believe the man's story is basically true. It is a partial true. A lot was omitted.

There is a reason that your wife has kept everything from you.

I suspect she still loves the other man. He was the one who got away.

She cheated on him multiple times. She always came back to him. She had her own demons. He couldn't take it. He left.

Your wife's behavior - the secrecy and refusals - makes no sense.

The other man's behavior's doesn't make sense. He was very, very rough on you. He basically told you that it's on YOU. Not on your wife. Just you. And the worst he said about your wife was that it was between you and her. Think about other man's point of view. If you were in his shoes. You would expect other man to tell you, "I'm so sorry, I don't know why your wife won't tell you these things, it's terrible that she won't tell you and caused you to think she's cheating."

So I don't know if your wife has been cheating on you physically. I do believe it is very likely she has been cheating on you emotionally.

I have met over the years many women who were raped. When I was in my 20s I had a lot of relationships with women. I couldn't believe how many had been sexually assaulted or raped at some point in their teens or early 20s. It seemed to me that most of them had lasting issues, some small, some not so small. On top of that, some of these I knew from before they were assaulted. I didn't know they were assaulted at the time and only found out later after getting involved. But they were not perfect before. Some weren't that great as a person before. The assaults happen to nice people and not so nice people. It's possible your wife had other issues before being raped. It's also possible that even other man doesn't know the full extent of her family life. 

Also, being raped does not make you a nice person later. There is sympathy of being raped that she still is seeing a counselor conflicting with anger of being lied to and kept in the secret while another man helps you being kept in the dark. Your wife did that to you. She is a person who had a traumatic event happen to her in her life which you should sympathize and at the same time she has lied to you and had ongoing secrets with her former lover which you should be angry about. Your wife was able to function at work and at home with three children and a husband, and she was able to hide her actions from you, so she is no innocent victim in her marriage with you. YOu 

My suggestion from me to you is to stop raging. Stop the divorce. Find a mediator - a person you and your wife both know, someone your wife is comfortable with - a friend, her mother. Who supported your wife through the birth? Where is your wife now? If there is no one you can mediate you, try writing her a letter. Main points:

1. I'm sorry it's turned out this way
2. I'm not sure I want to stay married
3. I loved you and maybe still do
4. I am extremely hurt that you wouldn't tell me the truth and I had to find out from your former lover
5. I am sorry what happened to you but I am also sorry what happened to me
6. If there is any chance for us to be together, you will have to stop keeping me out and being closer with a former lover than me.


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## ButtPunch

OutofRetirement said:


> I believe the man's story is basically true. It is a partial true. A lot was omitted.
> 
> There is a reason that your wife has kept everything from you.
> 
> I suspect she still loves the other man. He was the one who got away.
> 
> She cheated on him multiple times. She always came back to him. She had her own demons. He couldn't take it. He left.
> 
> Your wife's behavior - the secrecy and refusals - makes no sense.
> 
> The other man's behavior's doesn't make sense. He was very, very rough on you. He basically told you that it's on YOU. Not on your wife. Just you. And the worst he said about your wife was that it was between you and her. Think about other man's point of view. If you were in his shoes. You would expect other man to tell you, "I'm so sorry, I don't know why your wife won't tell you these things, it's terrible that she won't tell you and caused you to think she's cheating."
> 
> So I don't know if your wife has been cheating on you physically. I do believe it is very likely she has been cheating on you emotionally.
> 
> I have met over the years many women who were raped. When I was in my 20s I had a lot of relationships with women. I couldn't believe how many had been sexually assaulted or raped at some point in their teens or early 20s. It seemed to me that most of them had lasting issues, some small, some not so small. On top of that, some of these I knew from before they were assaulted. I didn't know they were assaulted at the time and only found out later after getting involved. But they were not perfect before. Some weren't that great as a person before. The assaults happen to nice people and not so nice people. It's possible your wife had other issues before being raped. It's also possible that even other man doesn't know the full extent of her family life.
> 
> Also, being raped does not make you a nice person later. There is sympathy of being raped that she still is seeing a counselor conflicting with anger of being lied to and kept in the secret while another man helps you being kept in the dark. Your wife did that to you. She is a person who had a traumatic event happen to her in her life which you should sympathize and at the same time she has lied to you and had ongoing secrets with her former lover which you should be angry about. Your wife was able to function at work and at home with three children and a husband, and she was able to hide her actions from you, so she is no innocent victim in her marriage with you. YOu
> 
> My suggestion from me to you is to stop raging. Stop the divorce. Find a mediator - a person you and your wife both know, someone your wife is comfortable with - a friend, her mother. Who supported your wife through the birth? Where is your wife now? If there is no one you can mediate you, try writing her a letter. Main points:
> 
> 1. I'm sorry it's turned out this way
> 2. I'm not sure I want to stay married
> 3. I loved you and maybe still do
> 4. I am extremely hurt that you wouldn't tell me the truth and I had to find out from your former lover
> 5. I am sorry what happened to you but I am also sorry what happened to me
> 6. If there is any chance for us to be together, you will have to stop keeping me out and being closer with a former lover than me.


Yeah No

At best your wife is a total liar and at worst a cheat.

Emotional/Physical cheating it doesn't matter

It's all bad

I don't believe the cover my butt letter at all but it really doesn't matter if it was all true.

Move on with your life

Hard 180


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## Tatsuhiko

I would send an olive branch response to the OM, not because you mean it, but just to get more information out of him. He's got "connections" with the therapist? He should be able to tell you the therapist's name. If you can't hire a PI, wait at the parking garage one of these days and see where she goes after she parks. I know you don't feel you have the energy to investigate, but you'll want closure and certainty about this whole thing one day, regardless of whether you divorce or stay together.


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## ABHale

Say this is why I am divorcing you and then hand her a print out of the text from the old bf, tell her if she can’t trust and open up with you then why stay married. Come clean about everything that you have found and how her own actions have shown she has been hiding something. 

I don’t know if the old bf is lying about her past or if everything she has told you is a lie. Only your wife can answer this. But if it is true she is actually taking money from him for her therapy and won’t talk with you about it. 

Watch after your kids because your wife is emotionally unstable right now.


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## ABHale

Went back and reread some of your first post. This makes the old bf’s text bull****. 

My mother takes our kids one or two Friday/Saturdays a month, the same days that my step-son goes to his dad's.


The old bf says your wife didn’t know who the father was and he assumed the role for 2 1/2 yrs. 

Who is your step sons father? Can you talk with him and clear the text from the old bf up?


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## Windwalker

OP,
I agree with what you and others said. At best, your wife is a liar and the lies by omission are monumental. There have been other marriages end because a traumatized person was unable to cope and let their marriage go down the tube, this is not all that uncommon.

The other thought is that she's a cheater, which I tend to believe, in that case she's still a liar by default!


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## bandit.45

ABHale said:


> *Say this is why I am divorcing you and then hand her a print out of the text from the old bf*, tell her if she can’t trust and open up with you then why stay married. Come clean about everything that you have found and how her own actions have shown she has been hiding something.
> 
> I don’t know if the old bf is lying about her past or if everything she has told you is a lie. Only your wife can answer this. But if it is true she is actually taking money from him for her therapy and won’t talk with you about it.
> 
> Watch after your kids because your wife is emotionally unstable right now.


This is exactly what you should do. 

Then tell her you intend to file for sole custody of the older children and fight her tooth and nail until she agrees to sit down with you and explain herself. If she explains herself and comes clean with her life history, then you might play nice and do the 50-50 thing. 

She's a lying liar. And if she is not, the OM's letter should cause her enough rage to maybe blow up and spill the beans. 

You don't have to prove she is a cheat. Just tell everyone she is and then let her work to prove she isn't.


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## dubsey

Yep, agreed. Go for sole custody of the kids on the grounds of mental instability - due to the text received from parking space guy.

Sit back, watch the chaos.


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## L81R

Pretending his cover up is true, things that don’t add up:
-Why was she hiding her phone
-Why was she clearing off her phone before I used it
-Why would she take her phone everywhere with her, even when it didn’t make sense to do so. 
-Why was she hiding her laptop every day before work IN THE DRYER
-Why wouldn’t she ever let me use her laptop
-If she was using it in bed she’d sit at the end of the bed, so I couldn’t see the screen. 
-She made a separate profile, one with a password I knew and one that I didn’t know
-Why did she replace the hard drive, then stop hiding it. 
-Why has she never, in 10 years, mentioned him
-Why did she rewrite her history
-Why did he call her 5 times in 9 days in January
-Why did she tell me that text was from her ex/son’s father 
-Why did she not want me to clean and organize the house, so I wouldn’t find anything 
-Why am I blocked on Facebook by her “ex” and his wife
-If they were best friends why are they no longer friends on Facebook
-Why would she let our marriage get to this point rather than tell me the truth 
-I looked through my step-sons baby book, lots of pictures of him, some of my wife and him NONE of any man. 
-The tone of the conversation we had, a bit more than what was posted, seemed like he was protecting her and I was solely to blame for HER not telling me. 
-And I’m sure there is more that I cannot recall right now. 

Things that could add up:
-All of our kids (minus my step-son) our biologically mine (DNA tested). 
-I don’t have hardcore proof (i.e. seeing her **** someone else, seeing it plainly written in a text or email, or said in a phone call) of an affair. 

That’s it. That can be accomplished by excellent lying skills (which she has either way) and luck of the draw. 

Really thinking about it… 

He was best friends with my wife.
For: He has a foot print all over her Facebook page starting in 2007, HOWEVER that is after they "broke up badly". 
Against: She has NEVER mentioned him and he doesn’t fit into the history she gave me. 

My wife was raped when she was 13.
For (and I’m stretching here): She doesn’t have male friends, she doesn’t like to be around my male friends, sex with her sucks.
Against: She has never mentioned it to me. I have never had a suspicion that she was raped. 

He dated my wife from age 15-18, give or take. 
For: Nothing.
Against: My wife was in a relationship with her sons father at 15, and did not have a relationship after or before him. Again, she has never mentioned him. 

He played daddy for 2 1/2 years because the real father was unknown. 
For: Nothing.
Against: My wife was dating the father when she got pregnant. They broke up because he didn’t want to be a father. She took him to court for child support and a DNA test was court mandated when he was a baby. She knows who the father is. He sees my step-son. In further conversation my wife’s “ex” said when they were together she didn’t know. No 15 year old would play daddy to some other kid, nor would parents let him. There are no pictures of him in the baby book. 

She *****d around and didn’t know who the baby daddy was:
For: Fits her character now. 
Against: She told me she was with the father, the father is in his life and has been for at least 10 years (how long I’ve been around). Son is 15. 

She was promiscuous before they started a relationship. 
For: Fits her character now. 
Against: She has no interest in sex. She doesn’t like friends that sleep around. She wouldn’t go sleeping around after being raped, that is just stupid. 

Her “ex” joined the military and left her and her son:
For: Nothing
Against: She has never mentioned it, nor has her son. 2 1/2 is young, but he could have some memory of him. 

She is seeing a therapist = reason she parks there.
For: It could be possible, highly unlikely but possible. The time she is there averages 60 minutes (50-70 minutes) which would be an appointment length. 
Against: She has never mentioned it. I have never seen a bill or payment from her account. It has been 18 years since the “rape”. 

My step-sons father and I are not at a level that we would talk. He sees his son 1-2 weekends a month. I am going to try and have a conversation with him. Surely he will know whether he was in a relationship, if someone else was “dad” and when he took over the role. Her family will also know, I just have to figure out how to word the conversation before talking to them.


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## OutofRetirement

Based on my personal experiences, if she was promiscuous in the past, it makes it more likely she could do it again.

Hiding/guarding the phone is the obvious red flag. Her laptop used to be at her bedside but available to you, then she started putting it in an extra unused dryer. She obviously had contact with her former lover, but you didn't find much contact. She goes twice a week to his parking spot but never mentions it. When you ask her anything related, she lies or refuses to answer. She does nothing to help you to understand. 

Add in coworker who calls her hun. I think some guys don't mean much by it, more likely your old uncle might say it than your young nephew. I can't put too much emphasis on it, I'd pay more attention to context and verbal cues, tone. 

It's very possible she physically cheated on you with both former lover and coworker, or very possibly neither.

My experiences tell me that old habits die hard. Whether it be promiscuity, enjoying male attention, smoking, drinking, gambling, etc. Your wife has problems and very likely it's nothing new to her. Only new is you finding out about an aspect of her she had kept secret.

She's messed up, that is certain.

I've known women who seemed all together, high functioning at work and family, but had very deep seated issues around sex or body image or both who almost no one would ever guess. Binge-eating, anorexic, bulimic, promiscuous, or had very specific quirks or ticks around sexual/romantic behaviors. To the extent that you lived with her for years and never saw anything makes me think you really trusted her and didn't pay much attention and/or she is not new to secrecy. It seems to me that she is very good at keeping secrets.

When you get the truth, the whole truth, it will all make sense. She has motivations behind all of her actions. My wife is afraid of insects, let's say spiders. Where I live, no one ever gets injured or killed by spiders. I'd say being extremely afraid is irrational. But when my wife runs from a spider, I understand her motivation and I can make sense of it. You should be able to get the same sense of understanding from your wife, even if her underlying assumption is based on an irrational fear.

The only way you'll ever find out is if she tells you.

I personally don't think you can just walk away, even if you wanted to. You have kids, including a newborn. You're stuck even if you walk.


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## ABHale

L81R I think the “ex bf” and her coworker are two completely different things. 

So called ex bf and your wife have a past together. 

The coworker is new. 

I would confront your wife with the parking pass in hand and a copy of the text. Let her know you have followed her to the parking garage and that you know when she has been there for the past few months. 

If she is not cheating then what is she doing. 

Hiding her phone and laptop. And everything else.


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## bandit.45

Print out that list you just showed us and send it to her. Then send it to her family and yours. 

Tell both families that as far as you are concerned she is a liar through and through, and that nothing she says is going to be taken at face value anymore. Tell them you had every right in the world to demand a paternity test for your baby, and to make her prove the child is yours, given all of the hiding and sneaking around she has been doing over the past year. 

She can either come clean, and then you will be more amenable to playing nice in the divorce; or she can clam up, which will result in you going whole hog with filing for sole custody and making the next year of her life a living hell. Your wife is a passive aggressive manipulator, and the only way you fight people like her is to go full-bore killzone. It's sad it has to be that way, but we here on TAM have seen good men and dads like you get railroaded by the system because they tried to play nice with wives like her.


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## OutofRetirement

Some of your assumptions are wrong, like she wouldn't be promiscuous after being raped.

But overall, you are correct. Your wife has invented a story. She told you one story, she told her former lover another story, she told her family another story.

There are truth in the guy's story, but there also may be lies and may be huge, huge omissions.

If you investigate and interview all of then, I am fairly certain that none know the whole truth. Only your wife knows that. 

I think it likely she was cheating on you, most likely physical as well as emotionally. Also it's likely she was raped. Five texts in January yet she parks in his spot. Something there doesn't add up big time. 

But the stories you have heard, and the ones you soon will hear, will be partial truths, possibly mixed with lies, possibly based on lies they were given which they took as truth without verifying.

Push comes to shove, your wife only can tell the whole truth for sure. And at this point maybe even a polygraph would make you believe her.


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## L81R

OutofRetirement said:


> Some of your assumptions are wrong, like she wouldn't be promiscuous after being raped.
> 
> But overall, you are correct. Your wife has invented a story. She told you one story, she told her former lover another story, she told her family another story.
> 
> There are truth in the guy's story, but there also may be lies and may be huge, huge omissions.
> 
> If you investigate and interview all of then, I am fairly certain that none know the whole truth. Only your wife knows that.
> 
> I think it likely she was cheating on you, most likely physical as well as emotionally. Also it's likely she was raped. Five texts in January yet she parks in his spot. Something there doesn't add up big time.
> 
> But the stories you have heard, and the ones you soon will hear, will be partial truths, possibly mixed with lies, possibly based on lies they were given which they took as truth without verifying.
> 
> Push comes to shove, your wife only can tell the whole truth for sure. And at this point maybe even a polygraph would make you believe her.


If my wife were raped to the point of needing to lie about it and see therapists 18 years later, becoming a ***** immediately afterwards does not seem plausible. If someone is in an airplane crash they would be terrified of flying again and avoid it at all costs. Not jump on a plane at every chance. 

I wish she could be cross examined and I could watch all her webs unwind. I don’t know who the **** I married. 

I think I’m going to have a conversation with her family, possibly the only people who know the truth. She was 15 when she had her son and living at home, they would have seen it all play out. Even if that “story” is true, it doesn’t rule out cheating. I still suspect she is ****ing him. He left that bit out, for his wife’s sake. Instead of totally throwing her under the bus to save his marriage, he fabricated a story with just the right amount of details to throw off his wife.


----------



## BarbedFenceRider

Forget the promiscuous thing. Set it aside for now. I would take all the points you listed from hiding the phone, recreating history, and blame shifting and sh*t testing.

She is an UN-SAFE partner. And you deserve better. And you can do better. Why listen to stories and gaslighting all day. No matter the reasons, counseling or whatever. Safe partners live lives together....Not secret ones hidden from the other. Time to drop the bags and go full 180. Do it for you, not her.


----------



## BluesPower

*Wow, this is just a lot...*



L81R said:


> Pretending his cover up is true, things that don’t add up:
> -Why was she hiding her phone
> -Why was she clearing off her phone before I used it
> -Why would she take her phone everywhere with her, even when it didn’t make sense to do so.
> -Why was she hiding her laptop every day before work IN THE DRYER
> -Why wouldn’t she ever let me use her laptop
> -If she was using it in bed she’d sit at the end of the bed, so I couldn’t see the screen.
> -She made a separate profile, one with a password I knew and one that I didn’t know
> -Why did she replace the hard drive, then stop hiding it.
> -Why has she never, in 10 years, mentioned him
> -Why did she rewrite her history
> -Why did he call her 5 times in 9 days in January
> -Why did she tell me that text was from her ex/son’s father
> -Why did she not want me to clean and organize the house, so I wouldn’t find anything
> -Why am I blocked on Facebook by her “ex” and his wife
> -If they were best friends why are they no longer friends on Facebook
> -Why would she let our marriage get to this point rather than tell me the truth
> -I looked through my step-sons baby book, lots of pictures of him, some of my wife and him NONE of any man.
> -The tone of the conversation we had, a bit more than what was posted, seemed like he was protecting her and I was solely to blame for HER not telling me.
> -And I’m sure there is more that I cannot recall right now.
> 
> Things that could add up:
> -All of our kids (minus my step-son) our biologically mine (DNA tested).
> -I don’t have hardcore proof (i.e. seeing her **** someone else, seeing it plainly written in a text or email, or said in a phone call) of an affair.
> 
> That’s it. That can be accomplished by excellent lying skills (which she has either way) and luck of the draw.
> 
> Really thinking about it…
> 
> He was best friends with my wife.
> For: He has a foot print all over her Facebook page starting in 2007, HOWEVER that is after they "broke up badly".
> Against: She has NEVER mentioned him and he doesn’t fit into the history she gave me.
> 
> My wife was raped when she was 13.
> For (and I’m stretching here): She doesn’t have male friends, she doesn’t like to be around my male friends, sex with her sucks.
> Against: She has never mentioned it to me. I have never had a suspicion that she was raped.
> 
> He dated my wife from age 15-18, give or take.
> For: Nothing.
> Against: My wife was in a relationship with her sons father at 15, and did not have a relationship after or before him. Again, she has never mentioned him.
> 
> He played daddy for 2 1/2 years because the real father was unknown.
> For: Nothing.
> Against: My wife was dating the father when she got pregnant. They broke up because he didn’t want to be a father. She took him to court for child support and a DNA test was court mandated when he was a baby. She knows who the father is. He sees my step-son. In further conversation my wife’s “ex” said when they were together she didn’t know. No 15 year old would play daddy to some other kid, nor would parents let him. There are no pictures of him in the baby book.
> 
> She *****d around and didn’t know who the baby daddy was:
> For: Fits her character now.
> Against: She told me she was with the father, the father is in his life and has been for at least 10 years (how long I’ve been around). Son is 15.
> 
> She was promiscuous before they started a relationship.
> For: Fits her character now.
> Against: She has no interest in sex. She doesn’t like friends that sleep around. She wouldn’t go sleeping around after being raped, that is just stupid.
> 
> Her “ex” joined the military and left her and her son:
> For: Nothing
> Against: She has never mentioned it, nor has her son. 2 1/2 is young, but he could have some memory of him.
> 
> She is seeing a therapist = reason she parks there.
> For: It could be possible, highly unlikely but possible. The time she is there averages 60 minutes (50-70 minutes) which would be an appointment length.
> Against: She has never mentioned it. I have never seen a bill or payment from her account. It has been 18 years since the “rape”.
> 
> My step-sons father and I are not at a level that we would talk. He sees his son 1-2 weekends a month. I am going to try and have a conversation with him. Surely he will know whether he was in a relationship, if someone else was “dad” and when he took over the role. Her family will also know, I just have to figure out how to word the conversation before talking to them.



Wow, this is just a lot...

Let's make it simple: If she is not cheating, then she is bat s*** crazy, I mean really crazy like how could she function in society????

If she is cheating, all the red flags make complete sense, and she is just a cheater. 

Where is the old hard drive? And You can hack her TP local password. There are a ton of utilities out there to do this if you have it in your possession. 

I just really cannot see how she is not cheating, my bet is she is just glad that the kid is yours.

I have to think divorce and move on, either she is cheating or she is crazy, and the sex sucks anyway so I just don't see any reason to stay...


----------



## L81R

bandit.45 said:


> Print out that list you just showed us and send it to her. Then send it to her family and yours.
> 
> Tell both families that as far as you are concerned she is a liar through and through, and that nothing she says is going to be taken at face value anymore. Tell them you had every right in the world to demand a paternity test for your baby, and to make her prove the child is yours, given all of the hiding and sneaking around she has been doing over the past year.
> 
> She can either come clean, and then you will be more amenable to playing nice in the divorce; or she can clam up, which will result in you going whole hog with filing for sole custody and making the next year of her life a living hell. Your wife is a passive aggressive manipulator, and the only way you fight people like her is to go full-bore killzone. It's sad it has to be that way, but we here on TAM have seen good men and dads like you get railroaded by the system because they tried to play nice with wives like her.


I would never get sole custody. I know it and she knows it. The laws here give both parents 50-50 custody unless one parent doesn't want it or there is solid proof that a parent is dangerous, etc. As much as I'd like to threaten her, we both know it's not going to happen. 

I have considered writing something up for her though, with everything he told me and all of her lies. The only thing holding me back is I don't want her to rehearse and memorize the "story". If she doesn't know that's what he told me, she might decide going with it is easier than admitting to having an affair. 

I am planning on talking to her family, and will ask them to verify his story. She lived at home during that time period that he claims to have been in her life. They'd know. How I'm going to approach or word that conversation, I have not decided.


----------



## bandit.45

L81R said:


> ...*I don’t know who the **** I married*.


That is the one an only thing in your marriage you _can_ be sure of. Your wife has gotten so used to lying and hiding that she doesn't even know what is true and what is not anymore. 



L81R said:


> I think I’m going to have a conversation with her family, possibly the only people who know the truth. She was 15 when she had her son and living at home, they would have seen it all play out. Even if that “story” is true, it doesn’t rule out cheating. I still suspect she is ****ing him. He left that bit out, for his wife’s sake. Instead of totally throwing her under the bus to save his marriage, he fabricated a story with just the right amount of details to throw off his wife.


Take that letter the OM sent you and show it to them Then show them the list you made. Stand your ground if they get defensive. You as her husband had every right to know about the rape and all the other bad things that happened to her, to know about all the things she did, and her family should support you on that.


----------



## BluesPower

*The problem that I have is...*



bandit.45 said:


> Take that letter the OM sent you and show it to them Then show them the list you made. Stand your ground if they get defensive. You as her husband had every right to know about the rape and all the other bad things that happened to her, to know about all the things she did, and her family should support you on that.


The problem that I have is... What makes you think her family will tell you the truth and/or not cover for her? 

Family can really be funny sometimes...


----------



## BarbedFenceRider

When is OP just going to go "You know what? Who cares anymore...I can't live like this and I want to be happy..."


----------



## badmemory

L817,

My take is that your wife is a pathological liar. No matter what comes out of her mouth in any type of ultimate confession; it simply can't be relied on. She's got skeletons in her closet she's trying to protect and she's very likely been cheating based on what you do know.

My question; isn't that enough? Criminals get convicted on circumstantial evidence routinely. So what if you don't have a smoking gun. You've got enough to know that staying with her is toxic. She's batsh!t crazy and if you're not careful she'll drive you to do something you'll regret. Like going to jail or to a mental institution.

Just relax a minute. Then start the divorces process, make sure you take care of your kids and get out of this situation as soon as you can.


----------



## bandit.45

*Re: The problem that I have is...*



BluesPower said:


> The problem that I have is... What makes you think her family will tell you the truth and/or not cover for her?
> 
> Family can really be funny sometimes...


They may indeed protect her, and they probably will. She learned her coping mechanisms from someone, and her family may be the type who hide their secrets rather than working to solve them.


----------



## ButtPunch

L81R said:


> I have considered writing something up for her though, with everything he told me and all of her lies. The only thing holding me back is I don't want her to rehearse and memorize the "story". If she doesn't know that's what he told me, she might decide going with it is easier than admitting to having an affair.


This is a waste of time and will not go how you want it to


----------



## L81R

I should clarify, I have filed for divorce and she is aware that I have filed. The best $167 I've spent. I could stop the proceeding if something comes up (highly doubt that, yet I'm second guessing myself). We have to be separated for 12 months before a divorce is finalized (no fault). The exception to this rule is if divorce is filed under the grounds of adultery or cruelty (at fault), both of which apply IMO. However, my lawyer encourage me not to pursue those options because they require evidence not just suspicion, are more costly and take longer. It would have been nice to take her adultery and mental cruelty to court and have her "friend" served the papers as well. 

The 12 month separation period does not begin until we are living under different roofs, so right now we are in limbo. My wife wants to move out, I'm not going anywhere. I have been advised not to leave the house. I am meeting with my lawyer on Friday to draft a separation agreement. Courts favour mothers with newborns, so the downside is that I’m not going to see the baby as much as the other 3 kids. To be honest, I’m not bonded to her at all right now. I prepared myself too much for her not to be mine. I won’t have custody of my step-son, and he’s hurt enough from his dad not being more involved, but my door will always be open to him. 

We have 5 kids, including my step-son. She's always going to be in my life whether I like it or not. Unless something crazy happens, I will be divorced from my wife in the next 18 months hopefully. 

I think we are both unintentionally doing the 180, from what I’ve read about it. She won’t talk to me, I’ve given up on trying to talk to her. We don’t sleep in the same room. We’re invisible to each other. I don’t care what she does and she doesn’t seem to care what I do. The most I’ve gotten out of her is a “you’re a ****ing *******” when I purposely left a dating site open so she’d see it (wasn’t actually looking, just wanted to piss her off). As soon as she is out of this house I don’t plan on having anything to do with her (aside from divorce and kids). 

I don’t think her family knows that we are divorcing. They are religious and judgemental. She has messed up enough in their eyes (teenage pregnancy). No one in her family has divorced, they sit around being miserable instead. She didn’t have anyone at the hospital when she gave birth, as far as I know. 

I am going to talk to her family, and do have to word and approach it the right way. Probably matter of factly, pretending I know it’s the truth. I know her parents told her that no one would ever marry her after having an unwed teen pregnancy. 

I don’t imagine there is anything that her family can say that will change my mind on the divorce. Either way, I don’t trust her, she doesn’t trust me, and we have nothing left. Knowing the truth is to feed my own curiosity and to try and shut down my second guessing.


----------



## Taxman

Frankly, I don't think anything is solid. My fall-back is the private investigator. You do not go into this without incontrovertible evidence. Hire a PI, spend the bucks. If there is something there, the PI will find it. I have seen these guys provide proof, when the BW spun her wheels for a year, when she felt like she was losing her mind, and her WH thought he had buried his trail, the PI uncovered it all.


----------



## bandit.45

L81R said:


> I don’t imagine there is anything that her family can say that will change my mind on the divorce. *Either way, I don’t trust her, she doesn’t trust me, and we have nothing left*. Knowing the truth is to feed my own curiosity and to try and shut down my second guessing.


This pisses me off to no end. I feel for you my man. Your children are going to pay the price because your wife cannot be an authentic person and act like a mature adult. 

She needs to have her tubes tied so she brings no more kids into the world to suffer due to her messed up issues.


----------



## Cynthia

There is more at stake here than your marriage or your wife. In the interest of your children, at least consider that it is possible (if not probable) that your wife is a victim of sexual assault as a child and her behavior is a response to that trauma. I have a feeling that the man who messaged you is not telling you the whole story in order to protect your wife and/or because it is her story to tell, not his. He is also probably angry with you for unjustly accusing him to his wife.

Please do some reading on PTSD from rape. Here are a couple of sites that show that secrecy due to shame is a common factor amongst people who suffer from PTSD from sexual assault.
https://www.helpguide.org/articles/ptsd-trauma/recovering-from-rape-and-sexual-trauma.htm
https://www.rapevictimadvocates.org/what-you-need-to-know/effects-of-sexual-violence/
Rape-Related PTSD: Issues and Interventions | Psychiatric Times
This one is a long document for professionals: http://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/1444319/1/U591621.pdf


It is common for sexual assault victims to keep the event hidden due to shame and self-blame. Children are more prone to blaming themselves than adults, but it’s a problem for both children and adults to blame themselves. Your reaction to hearing the truth is one of the reasons why people keep the trauma to themselves. Your wife is very likely suffering from PTSD as a result of the rape. The relationship with her friend (the man who messaged you, I’ll call him cf) must have made the trauma even worse for her.

Cf realizes that how he ended the relationship was wrong, but he clearly doesn’t understand her situation or why she would hide this from you. He is blaming you for not knowing and not being a safe person. You cannot be held responsible for what you didn’t know, but cf is probably doing some blame shifting and projection due to the obvious feelings of responsibility he has.

I don’t know if every detail of cf is true or not, but the story certainly makes sense in light of what we do know. Clearly she was/is seeing a rape counselor. Your suspicious behavior and subsequent treatment of her is making her situation much worse than it was before. You are contributing to her emotional trauma, which is likely impacting her ability to properly bond with YOUR baby. If you don’t have anything in your heart for your wife, at least have mercy on your helpless child.

Clearly she was right to hide this trauma from you, because you have shown yourself to be her enemy, rather than her ally. I understand that you are hurt and upset by years of her keeping this secret from you, but you clearly do not understand the trauma that she experienced and the normal response that she is exhibiting. Her response and secretiveness isn’t healthy, but it is a normal response and she should have been treated for this long before now.

Edit to add: I don't think your wife was cheating on you. I also think you are emotion driven and suspicious; making judgments based on emotion rather than fact. You have been egged on by a bunch of people who are projecting their situation into yours.

I believe in checking out concerns about cheating, but when you find absolutely no proof and then accuse your wife of cheating to the point that you deny your own child, you are as much a part of the problem as she is. Own it. Stop being a hypocrite.


----------



## RoseAglow

@LR81, this is a terrible, terrible situation. I usually stay off these threads but I feel compelled to write to you. 

Anyone would have been going crazy in your shoes, with the signs of cheating that your wife was flagging. I don't blame you for that at all.

Now-- you have new source info. IMO it is imperative that you do every single thing you can do right now to find out if the letter from that guy has any truth to it. It could all be a total BS story, it could have some important truths. You don't know.

Sometimes, things are improbable but true. It was improbable that your wife would get pregnant with your child- but she did. All of the kids are yours, verified. It is possible that your wife was NOT cheating.

If she was not cheating, your life, her life, and most importantly, your kids' lives, are about to be torn asunder because of your anger and volatile emotions. And believe it- that is exactly what the narrative is going to be. 

There is not going to be sympathy for you. The story line will be: Mom was getting help, Dad was paranoid and freaked out and even when told the truth, he didn't believe it. He wasn't even there for his own child's birth. You can see why Mom didn't tell him, he is emotional and crazy. They divorced over it. This is all Dad's fault.

This has a chance to significantly and seriously affect your relationship with your kids for a long time. In fact, this story line is probably already set up. Your kids are young but they won't be young for long. They are going to understand what it means that their dad was not at the birth, that mom had to move out of the house with the newborn, etc. 

You really, really need to find out whatever you can. Posters have implored you to hire a PI. I am joining them.

If your wife was cheating, then you need the proof NOW. If the PI is able to verify that your wife was going to the therapist (and the fact that she was consistently out of there from 45-60 mins makes me think that she was), AND the PI isn't able to find anything else, then you should have that information. You will have yet another big decision to make on where you want to go from there.

Just saying though- it is not going to be easy to be a divorced dad with four kids, one of whom is a newborn. You only want to do this if it is truly necessary. 

You need to find out. Get a professional NOW. The stakes are extremely high.


----------



## badmemory

CynthiaDe said:


> Clearly she was right to hide this trauma from you, because you have shown yourself to be her enemy, rather than her ally.


That's taking it too far CD.

He's her husband, not her enemy. He has a right to expect his wife to be truthful with him above all else. If she had been, then this marriage would have chance. He's not to blame here. She is.

How many times do we see BS KISA's try to fix a broken wife and stay too long in a miserable marriage? Too many.


----------



## Cynthia

badmemory said:


> That's taking it too far CD.
> 
> He's her husband, not her enemy. He has a right to expect his wife to be truthful with him above all else. If she had been, then this marriage would have chance. He's not to blame here. She is.
> 
> How many times do we see BS KISA's try to fix a broken wife and stay too long in a miserable marriage? Too many.


I appreciate your position, badmemory, but we are dealing with an extremely traumatized woman and this way L81R is handing it is making this situation far worse than it was to begin with. I believe his wife is in danger of having a mental breakdown and his children are being harmed by all this needless drama.

I agree that he cannot fix her, but his behavior has been adversarial, which is the same as an enemy. I don't think he is to blame for her problems, but he is making it worse. Denying his child took it over the top for me. He denied his own child his loving presence because he is suspicious of his wife. I don't know the ethnic background of the OP, but it is likely that he could tell the baby was his from day one and yet he choose to act on his negative emotion rather than to look at the facts.

The underlying issue here is that L81R is dealing with a traumatized (read messed up, dysfunctional) wife and his reaction is escalating the problem rather than bringing calm and peace.


----------



## ButtPunch

Her alleged trauma does not excuse her from her actions

She isn't wife material


----------



## badmemory

CynthiaDe said:


> I agree that he cannot fix her, but his behavior has been adversarial, which is the same as an enemy. I don't think he is to blame for her problems, but he is making it worse. Denying his child took it over the top for me. He denied his own child his loving presence because he is suspicious of his wife.


I do agree that his anger and resentment is escalating and starting get the best of him; and yes, not seeing the baby is an example of that. Not a good thing to do. (Sorry OP, I know you're in the room.) That's exactly why I advised him he needs to relax and get out of this toxic situation before he does something worse.


----------



## Cynthia

ButtPunch said:


> Her alleged trauma does not excuse her from her actions
> 
> She isn't wife material
> 
> Most of your school shooters are trauma victims.


It is pretty clear that part of what L81R thought was proof of an affair is actually proof that she has been seeing a therapist about the rape. Cf felt responsible for some of her pain and has somehow been involved in her getting help. From what has been reported here, he clearly feels ashamed of how he treated her and is trying to make amends. His response to L81R could have been much better, but put yourself in his shoes. I'm sure he was upset about how L81R approached the situation and was partly responding to that.

This whole thing is a complicated mess, but if L81R gets his head cleared he can be part of the solution rather than part of the drama.

While I do not excuse L81R's wife for her cover up, she didn't go out and shoot anyone and she wasn't actively trying to harm L81R as far as we know. It looks like a terrible misunderstanding based on her inability to reveal her pain to L81R. She also has some boundary issues in letting a man call her Hon. That isn't appropriate, but I know people who do that all the time. I've had strangers and business associates call me Hon. It grates on me and I don't like it, but it happens. People also develop a taste for new foods that they sample. I developed a love for Greek food after going to a Greek restaurant that my husband took me to years ago.

I think it's time to reevaluate what is going on here and adjust accordingly.

Edit to add: The more I think about this, the more obvious it becomes that the therapy is what created the changes in the relationship. When people start therapy they are bringing up the past and working through it. It can create a lot of emotional distress that then bleeds into relationships. If she has been discussing her rape with a therapist, it is understandable that she would not be feeling positive about sex.


----------



## farsidejunky

RoseAglow said:


> @LR81, this is a terrible, terrible situation. I usually stay off these threads but I feel compelled to write to you.
> 
> Anyone would have been going crazy in your shoes, with the signs of cheating that your wife was flagging. I don't blame you for that at all.
> 
> Now-- you have new source info. IMO it is imperative that you do every single thing you can do right now to find out if the letter from that guy has any truth to it. It could all be a total BS story, it could have some important truths. You don't know.
> 
> Sometimes, things are improbable but true. It was improbable that your wife would get pregnant with your child- but she did. All of the kids are yours, verified. It is possible that your wife was NOT cheating.
> 
> If she was not cheating, your life, her life, and most importantly, your kids' lives, are about to be torn asunder because of your anger and volatile emotions. And believe it- that is exactly what the narrative is going to be.
> 
> There is not going to be sympathy for you. The story line will be: Mom was getting help, Dad was paranoid and freaked out and even when told the truth, he didn't believe it. He wasn't even there for his own child's birth. You can see why Mom didn't tell him, he is emotional and crazy. They divorced over it. This is all Dad's fault.
> 
> This has a chance to significantly and seriously affect your relationship with your kids for a long time. In fact, this story line is probably already set up. Your kids are young but they won't be young for long. They are going to understand what it means that their dad was not at the birth, that mom had to move out of the house with the newborn, etc.
> 
> You really, really need to find out whatever you can. Posters have implored you to hire a PI. I am joining them.
> 
> If your wife was cheating, then you need the proof NOW. If the PI is able to verify that your wife was going to the therapist (and the fact that she was consistently out of there from 45-60 mins makes me think that she was), AND the PI isn't able to find anything else, then you should have that information. You will have yet another big decision to make on where you want to go from there.
> 
> Just saying though- it is not going to be easy to be a divorced dad with four kids, one of whom is a newborn. You only want to do this if it is truly necessary.
> 
> You need to find out. Get a professional NOW. The stakes are extremely high.


She had years to disclose whatever she may have been hiding, Rose. 

Whether the OM is actually an OM or just someone who knows more about her past than the OP, she is not a safe partner.


----------



## farsidejunky

CynthiaDe said:


> It is pretty clear that part of what L81R thought was proof of an affair is actually proof that she has been seeing a therapist about the rape. Cf felt responsible for some of her pain and has somehow been involved in her getting help. From what has been reported here, he clearly feels ashamed of how he treated her and is trying to make amends. His response to L81R could have been much better, but put yourself in his shoes. I'm sure he was upset about how L81R approached the situation and was partly responding to that.
> 
> This whole thing is a complicated mess, but if L81R gets his head cleared he can be part of the solution rather than part of the drama.
> 
> While I do not excuse L81R's wife for her cover up, she didn't go out and shoot anyone and she wasn't actively trying to harm L81R as far as we know. It looks like a terrible misunderstanding based on her inability to reveal her pain to L81R. She also has some boundary issues in letting a man call her Hon. That isn't appropriate, but I know people who do that all the time. I've had strangers and business associates call me Hon. It grates on me and I don't like it, but it happens. People also develop a taste for new foods that they sample. I developed a love for Greek food after going to a Greek restaurant that my husband took me to years ago.
> 
> I think it's time to reevaluate what is going on here and adjust accordingly.
> 
> Edit to add: The more I think about this, the more obvious it becomes that the therapy is what created the changes in the relationship. When people start therapy they are bringing up the past and working through it. It can create a lot of emotional distress that then bleeds into relationships. If she has been discussing her rape with a therapist, it is understandable that she would not be feeling positive about sex.


Which means there is no trust. 

This means there is no marriage. 

I tend to agree that the rope story has merit, and fits some of the pieces together.

However, it does not piece nearly all of it together. And she is clearly more willing to divorce than be transparent.


----------



## RoseAglow

badmemory said:


> That's taking it too far CD.
> 
> He's her husband, not her enemy. He has a right to expect his wife to be truthful with him above all else. If she had been, then this marriage would have chance. He's not to blame here. She is.
> 
> How many times do we see BS KISA's try to fix a broken wife and stay too long in a miserable marriage? Too many.


I just want to present a different perspective on this.

The OP has been acting strangely since Nov 2017. He has been weird. She has gone about her business. She is a pregnant woman, doing all she can to keep her unborn baby, as well has her FOUR other kids, healthy. She continues to work and on her own, she has been seeing a therapist to help her recover from past traumas that she is not comfortable discussing with him.

One day, her husband flips out. He has been acting oddly and finally, he loses it. He has been snooping around and looked at her phone, looked at her deleted stuff. Even though he can see that she never picked up or responded to a phone number or text, he flips the **** out. He is screaming, calls her names, calls her a *****, is rioting on about how she has been cheating on him. He has been searching for months, he has followed her, and now he FINALLY found the proof he was looking for!

Except it's not proof. In fact, just by looking at it, he can see that she never picked up a call and did not respond to the text. She tells him that there has been no cheating, but it's pointless. He is entirely convinced.

He ices her out. He serves her with divorce papers. He demands paternity tests of the newborn and his other kids. He does not show up to the birth of the newborn child. 

Which, by the way, proves that he is the dad. He is also the dad of the other kids. He still tries to get under her skin by leaving his web site open to dating apps.

Meanwhile, she is taking care of her newborn and her other kids. She has iced him out and agrees to divorce. Not showing up for kids birth because you're convinced your wife is cheating, when she isn't? You are dead to her. As a mom, this would also be the death of the relationship for me as well. No show for the birth of your child? Just...wow.

The Bros of TAM might fist pump you OP. But guess who the rest of the world is going to see as the ******* here? 

With friends like this, who needs enemies? Who is the unsafe person here?

OP, this is what it looks like from the outside world. I truly do understand why you were so emotional. This is very serious and it is not good. This is the time to re-evaluate. You need to find out what happened, to the best you can.


----------



## RoseAglow

farsidejunky said:


> Which means there is no trust.
> 
> This means there is no marriage.
> 
> I tend to agree that the rope story has merit, and fits some of the pieces together.
> 
> However, it does not piece nearly all of it together. And she is clearly more willing to divorce than be transparent.


I don't think it's a matter of divorce rather than be transparent. He flipped out. What if she wasn't cheating? He flipped out and showed that in fact, HE is not safe. 

It is divorce because her husband is a ****, causing her more pain, who didn't even show up to the birth of his child. 

Think about how this looks from other perspectives,


----------



## Cynthia

farsidejunky said:


> Which means there is no trust.
> 
> This means there is no marriage.
> 
> I tend to agree that the rope story has merit, and fits some of the pieces together.
> 
> However, it does not piece nearly all of it together. And she is clearly more willing to divorce than be transparent.


Agree. She is in no condition at this point to work through anything with her husband. Her issues are at a peak right now. She needs professional help and it may be better for L8R1 to not interact with her, but that's going to be rather difficult, if not impossible with four children in the mix who need both of their parents. At least L8R1 can be a calming and stabilizing influence right now.

I don't want to blame anyone. I'm trying to point out what is likely going on, so that it makes sense. It is not my intention to make anyone feel bad, but sometimes the truth can blindside a person and it's difficult to switch gears when everything suddenly changes.


----------



## badmemory

CynthiaDe said:


> It looks like a terrible *misunderstanding* based on her inability to reveal her pain to L81R. .


CnythiaDe,

I don't think that it's been established what she was doing there. Rather than a misunderstanding, it's a mystery. One that could easily be solved if she'd just tell her husband the truth. If she's innocent of cheating, she needs to start acting like it.


----------



## RoseAglow

CynthiaDe said:


> Agree. She is in no condition at this point to work through anything with her husband. Her issues are at a peak right now. She needs professional help and it may be better for L8R1 to not interact with her, but that's going to be rather difficult, if not impossible with four children in the mix who need both of their parents. At least L8R1 can be a calming and stabilizing influence right now.
> 
> I don't want to blame anyone. I'm trying to point out what is likely going on, so that it makes sense. *It is not my intention to make anyone feel bad, but sometimes the truth can blindside a person and it's difficult to switch gears when everything suddenly changes.*


I absolutely agree with this- especially the bold. It is clear why the OP was convinced that his wife was cheating. I don't blame him at all.

But now, there is new potential information. It could still be false. It could be partly true. It could all be true, yet she still could have been cheating with someone from work. We don't know.

But that is just it- he doesn't know. And now the dice are thrown. This is the time to put the resources into the PI and find out whatever he can, to be as sure as he can. 

Shoot, even if his wife was cheating, without proof, he could be looking at very negative, long term consequences.


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## manwithnoname

L81R said:


> I should clarify, I have filed for divorce and she is aware that I have filed. The best $167 I've spent. I could stop the proceeding if something comes up (highly doubt that, yet I'm second guessing myself). *We have to be separated for 12 months before a divorce is finalized *(no fault). The exception to this rule is if divorce is filed under the grounds of adultery or cruelty (at fault), both of which apply IMO. However, my lawyer encourage me not to pursue those options because they require evidence not just suspicion, are more costly and take longer. It would have been nice to take her adultery and mental cruelty to court and have her "friend" served the papers as well.
> 
> Ask your lawyer about this. I'm guessing you might be in Ontario. You may be able to live under the same roof and still count towards the 12 months, but in different parts of the house because financial situation does not permit one or the other to move out.
> 
> Worth looking into.


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## UpsideDownWorld11

L8,

I'm a little late but I have been following. What exactly did your wife say about the whole rape story you got from this guy? 

Did she confirm it? 

Did she tell you that she had indeed been seeing a rape counselor? 

I mean this guys story isn't exactly adding up, so why should OP trust him. It seems odd to me that she'd keep this from her own husband their entire marriage, but if she felt ashamed, its not exactly implausible. Nevertheless, that is pretty big bombshell to drop after over a decade. The flip side is she could just use the rape story as a cover for her affair. Maybe AP and her talked it over and came up with this ruse. Or maybe she did get raped and did have an affair since she obviously feels some comfort level with this guy. 

You have every right to your suspicions, I mean every man here that has experienced a cheating wife has a story to tell about how protective they were of their cell phone. Its definately a red flag, but not evidence. Some people are just private to a fault. Since you've found zero hard evidence after some months that she has been cheating, not really sure why not just go ahead and just talk with your wife. Ask her for evidence that she has been seeing a rape counselor. Surely, she can supply this fairly easily. You have four kids with her, you aren't going to get out of this without dealing with her in some capacity for the next 18 years. If she cheated, divorce her, but it would be nice to base your divorce on evidence instead of just a hunch.

Sorry if I missed something in this thread.


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## badmemory

L81R,

Sorry, sometimes these type of threads can turn into a gender based partisanship debate. That was not my intention to be part of that. But, you lost a lot of respect with some of the women posters with how you reacted to your baby.

Look, I'm still saying you should get out of this marriage. But before you do, why not lay your cards on the table about what you know (not how you know it) and give your wife one last opportunity to tell you the truth. That way if she refuses to tell you, at least you can say you gave her one last chance before pulling the plug. See where it goes.

If you do that, talk to her calmly and confidently. Don't show anger. Don't raise your voice. Be civil.


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## ButtPunch

So at best he gets a traumatized rape victim with poor boundaries and hidden opposite sex friendships with "former lovers".

Or she's just a normal cheater

Lose Lose

Move on with your life. 

Hell she didn't even try to gaslight you. 

Had the OM do it.

She's lied to you for your entire marriage and even isn't the slightest bit sorry (if that's even true.....who knows anymore)


----------



## Tron

If the email from her XBF is true, I can see how she might react the way she has. The OP's recent actions would be unforgivable and she would have every reason to D him over it.

If the email from her XBF is true, it still doesn't excuse her sneaky activity, her lack of honesty or her lack of commitment to the OP and the marriage.

They can both sit in cold war or talk it out. 

It is worth a discussion IMO.


----------



## OutofRetirement

Given her marriage-long secrecy, significant omissions, and outright lies, and refusing to communicate with her husband when he asked legitimate doubts, in my opinion this was more of an arrangement for her than a sincere and genuine marriage. 

What part of the marriage vows, the marriage contract, covers secrecy and deception and refusal to communicate?


----------



## OutofRetirement

Was she uncomfortable telling her husband the truth because of his recent actions?

Apparently she's felt this way the entire marriage.

If former lover is accurate, wife lied the whole time, even before marriage, about her life preceding you. 

Old lies, new lies - at what point do you begin questioning everything you can't prove by outside evidence?


----------



## Chaparral

I’m not sure I like your attorney. Have you showed him the information the alleged other man has given you? Have you asked your attorney to subpoena him and make a deposition under oath?

My biggest worry is that your actions may cost you dearly in front of a judge when it comes to custody. With a cut throat lawyer she may make the case you are the unfit parent. I doubt it but you would not believe how bad this can get. As a matter of fact, all she has to do, and we have seen it here, is call 911 and say you are terrorizing her and she fears for her life. Yes, we have seen fathers here that did not get to see his kids for months and custody proceedings go on for well over a year. Beware, always carry a var.

For those jumping on L81R, remember, the only person claiming she has been seeing a counselor is her supposed affair partner. Her marriage has been falling apart and she has done nothing to defend herself? It does seem odd that an affair partner would want to regularly meet with her while being extremely pregnant. BUT, he may have thought the baby might be his. He may have even been considering dumping his wife before the DNA results came in.

I think you should get another attorney’s opinion. Get the PI to investigate and find out if the Posom owns property near the parking spot. Look at dadsdivorce.com

I can definitely see the OM being nasty if he is innocent. A man contacted his wife saying he was being unfaithful.


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## Windwalker

Interesting that we have people jumping to conclusions over a text or letter or what ever the hell it was that the supposed "Best friend"/alleged affair partner sent him. Not suprised at all by that fact. Hell, I wish I could say that it's the first time it has happened, but that would be a BS statement. Same ****, different day! 

The OP laid out a logical pro-con list and is deciding what his next step is as far as trying to find the truth. He has filed for divorce. Divorce is a process. It doesn't magically happen over night. The OP has shown that he has a head on his shoulders and I believe he will start asking questions in the appropriate places.

I'm still calling BS on the other dude's letter or whatever it was until further information is revealed.

Best of luck to you on finding information, OP.


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## Dyokemm

If OP’s W has not confirmed that the past rape is the truth and that she is seeing a therapist, has been using OM’s ‘help’ in getting a parking space, and that she was indeed involved with him ‘in the past’....then I do not see why OP or anyone should take OM’s statements as true at all....

After all.....not only has ANY of this never been mentioned by OP’s W during their M.....BUT there is also not a single picture or shred of evidence that would even hint that it is plausible/true.....

I mean.....this guy is suppossedly a ‘father’ to OP’s stepson for a missing/unknown dad (who btw seems to have been found since this time as he is in stepson’s life right now).....and there is not even ONE picture of this central person with his ‘son’ from that time?

With such a glaring lack of a single piece of evidence supporting OM’s story....I would be hesitant to automatically label OP’s W as a ‘rape’ victim who has been receiving counseling for her pain and been retraumatized by OP’s recent actions.....

Not saying it must be false......but not willing to declare it as gospel truth until some corroborating evidence shows up other than the word of an OM who has EVERY reason to lie to cover his tracks/behavior.....

Speaking of which....after being gone from her life for so long.....WTF was this POS doing secretly contacting another man’s W behind her H’s back for in the first place, even if his story is true for the most part?

I don’t go contacting my exes secretly behind their H’s back to apologize for mistakes I realize I made way back when we were together....

A....that is ancient history, and it serves NO purpose to insert potential drama into their lives and M’s now.....

B....it would be friggin incredibly disrespectful to their current H’s to be talking to their W’s today about long dead relationships....ESPECIALLY if it was done behind their backs.

This OM is a scumbag POS no matter what IMO.


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## RoseAglow

There is about as much evidence that the alleged rape is true as there is evidence that the wife has been cheating: very little either way.

The rape and therapy story explains a LOT. I had a super long post up going through the things that it could explain including:

1. Why she doesn't trust men (as noted in the thread- she doesn't have any male friends, she shys away from the OP's friends and hides in other rooms when they are over) and opted to keep both the rape and her therapy from her H.

2. Possibly why she was hiding a laptop-- if the story is true, then I think she was probably using the laptop to write/journal. A laptop is more secure than a paper journal. She would have been able to keep letters never sent, write ups of her history and memories, etc in a single secure location.

I mean really- why would a pharmacist (who would assumedly be comfortable with technology and apps) use a clunky laptop hidden in a drier to carry on an affair in 2018? It makes no sense.

3. Explain why she was going to that specific location for 45-70 minutes each time- this is easily explained by therapy appts which are usually about 45 mins long. It would be unusual for someone to be that consistent with a lover, IMO. (Of course, she still could have been seeing a lover and not a therapist!)

4. Explain why a woman who had just given birth to a newborn AND was caring for four other children would so coldy and completely ice out her H. Just before and just after childbirth are the times when a woman is most vulnerable and most in need of help- and instead, it sounds like her communication for weeks has been limited to "I want a divorce", "I want to move out", and "You're a ****" and even that last one was provoked by the OP, trying to get a reaction by leaving a dating app open on his laptop.

This is extremely unusual behavior for a woman...but not for a woman who was raped as a young teen, shamed by her family for being a teen mom, ditched by the baby's daddy when she 15, ditched in one day by the guy who had been her best friend and tried to help her parent her infant/toddler, whose husband only married her because she got pregnant and only after a DNA test AND DNAd their first three kids numerous times (the 23andme test discussed early in the thread, and again recently) when all of the kids were his AND who skipped the birth of his child. 

In other words, that behavior is consistent with a woman who has a good career/is self-sufficient and is absolutely ****ing done with being vulnerable to men.

In my own personal experience, once I knew I was done with my relationships, the guy never again got any vital info from me. He had lost that access. There was zero reason to share anything important. 

If the wife is truly done, there is a chance that the OP will never again get anything other than info about the kids and the divorce, or at least not for a long time. I hope I'm wrong about that though. Hopefully they are having it out right now and all the cards are finally being laid on the table.

On the flip side, the OP has been searching and snooping for almost 1/2 year and coming with nothing on his wife cheating. Pretty much all of the really suspicious behaviors are explained by the OM's story.

But, that doesn't make the story true. The story could be true AND she still could have cheated. It is all conjecture at this point.

For this reason, I hope the OP goes through the trouble of getting a PI to finally try to get some real information one way or the other.


----------



## L81R

Is another PI really worth it at this point? How much info can they find out? I did call the therapist office she “apparently” goes to and tried to cancel her next appointment (as a verification that she goes there) but the response from the receptionist as that only patients could change appointments. Frankly, I don’t feel like my wife isn’t worth spending more money on for more PI hours. If I do it I’m not doing it for her, I’m doing it for me. 

One thing that I’m not looking forward to is my wife seeing other men. I don’t know who would have her, 31 with 5 kids, but some scumbag probably would. I don’t care who is with her, good riddance, I care about who is around my kids. The type of man who would be interested a woman like my wife isn’t someone I’d want around my kids. That may be the most challenging part of all of this. 

If his story is true (which I highly doubt) then why even tell me? Why tell a cover up story if there is nothing to cover up? In a paragraph I didn’t include (the gist of it was to stay away from his wife “or else”), he said his wife knew everything. “I have a strong marriage and my wife knows better than to put faith in what you are telling her. She knows what is going on currently and my history with Vanessa. We have no need for secrets in our marriage.” So why tell me? Why decide to contact me back? Seeing as he said my wife would be “better off without me”, why try to “snap me out of it”? 

Let’s pretend my wife was raped at 13 for a second. Why would she confide it at least one person (her “boyfriend”) but not another (her HUSBAND)? Why would she be this effected almost two decades later? But not effected enough to stop her from sleeping around? You really think she wouldn’t slip up in 10 years? She has never had issues with sex, she simply doesn’t want to put in the effort for me. Prior to July of last year, there was NO signs of her being “traumatized”. Our sex life has always been the same, that cannot be blamed on “discussing rape with her therapist” @CynthiaDe

Am I supposed to ignore everything that is not adding up? Aside from words there is NOTHING to prove that is is true. 

She made the decisions that led me to be absent from our daughters birth. All she had to do was tell me the truth and I would have been there. I wasn’t going to support her through a birth of someone else’s child, and she had no desire to tell me or prove me otherwise. If she wasn’t having an affair, why let me believe she was? I sent in the paperwork to be added to my daughters birth certificate. 

To my knowledge my wife does not know that her “friend” contacted me and told me this “story”. I have not spoken to her about it yet. @UpsideDownWorld11 I am speaking with her family tomorrow, and I will see what they say.

If this “story” is true and she has never had an affair, how does a marriage even come back from this level of damage? 

My lawyer has not seen what he sent me. It was written that contacting him or his wife again would be harassment. I have another appointment on Friday, and I can bring it with me than. I filed for a no fault divorce, because it’s easier, cheaper and quicker. In Canada it is called an examination for discovery. I don’t think it would apply to my divorce, because it is at fault. Here custody is always 50-50 unless there is proof that a parent is unfit. Just saying they are unfit or making **** up is not good enough. I will speak to my lawyer about it, however. I don’t think she has even seen a lawyer. @Chaparral


----------



## L81R

RoseAglow said:


> There is about as much evidence that the alleged rape is true as there is evidence that the wife has been cheating: very little either way.
> 
> The rape and therapy story explains a LOT. I had a super long post up going through the things that it could explain including:
> 
> 1. Why she doesn't trust men (as noted in the thread- she doesn't have any male friends, she shys away from the OP's friends and hides in other rooms when they are over) and opted to keep both the rape and her therapy from her H.
> 
> 2. Possibly why she was hiding a laptop-- if the story is true, then I think she was probably using the laptop to write/journal. A laptop is more secure than a paper journal. She would have been able to keep letters never sent, write ups of her history and memories, etc in a single secure location.
> 
> I mean really- why would a pharmacist (who would assumedly be comfortable with technology and apps) use a clunky laptop hidden in a drier to carry on an affair in 2018? It makes no sense.
> 
> 3. Explain why she was going to that specific location for 45-70 minutes each time- this is easily explained by therapy appts which are usually about 45 mins long. It would be unusual for someone to be that consistent with a lover, IMO. (Of course, she still could have been seeing a lover and not a therapist!)
> 
> 4. Explain why a woman who had just given birth to a newborn AND was caring for four other children would so coldy and completely ice out her H. Just before and just after childbirth are the times when a woman is most vulnerable and most in need of help- and instead, it sounds like her communication for weeks has been limited to "I want a divorce", "I want to move out", and "You're a ****" and even that last one was provoked by the OP, trying to get a reaction by leaving a dating app open on his laptop.
> 
> This is extremely unusual behavior for a woman...but not for a woman who was raped as a young teen, shamed by her family for being a teen mom, ditched by the baby's daddy when she 15, ditched in one day by the guy who had been her best friend and tried to help her parent her infant/toddler, whose husband only married her because she got pregnant and only after a DNA test AND DNAd their first three kids numerous times (the 23andme test discussed early in the thread, and again recently) when all of the kids were his AND who skipped the birth of his child.
> 
> In other words, that behavior is consistent with a woman who has a good career/is self-sufficient and is absolutely ****ing done with being vulnerable to men.
> 
> In my own personal experience, once I knew I was done with my relationships, the guy never again got any vital info from me. He had lost that access. There was zero reason to share anything important.
> 
> If the wife is truly done, there is a chance that the OP will never again get anything other than info about the kids and the divorce, or at least not for a long time. I hope I'm wrong about that though. Hopefully they are having it out right now and all the cards are finally being laid on the table.
> 
> On the flip side, the OP has been searching and snooping for almost 1/2 year and coming with nothing on his wife cheating. Pretty much all of the really suspicious behaviors are explained by the OM's story.
> 
> But, that doesn't make the story true. The story could be true AND she still could have cheated. It is all conjecture at this point.
> 
> For this reason, I hope the OP goes through the trouble of getting a PI to finally try to get some real information one way or the other.


I read the first version you posted, and this edited version. 

I'm not going to sit here and argue like cats and dogs over it. To me it seems like a far stretch to explain away all of our problems being caused by her past and me. I had every right to ask for a paternity test with our first child, we had been together for 5 months. I was a **** about it, I will admit that any day. In the posts that fall under the same category of yours, she seems to receive no blame. It's everyone else, not her. 

One thing that was in the other write up was yearbooks. It reminded me that she has her high school yearbooks at her parents house. She has a few boxes there of "memorabilia" and I know her yearbooks are in them. Personally, my high school yearbooks were simply one picture of each student and that's it. I have never looked at hers, they could be different. I'm not going to change my entire outlook on a picture, but it did remind me that they are there. 

To argue about the "appointment" length, she goes on her lunch breaks which are the same time every day. So while that time does fit in with a typical appointment time, it also fits with her lunch break allowance.


----------



## RoseAglow

OP there are many reasons why your wife would not tell you about her rape, if she actually was raped. Those reasons are not about you or due to you. They are part of the horrific experience.

Not telling a husband is extremely common. It is also extremely common for a person to become promiscuous after rape then settle down- and often they will not have a great sex life with their spouse or SO. It is textbook. Do a search on TAM and you will see numerous threads from husbands who only found out decades into marriage that their wives had been raped as young girls or women, who were upset to find out that their wives slept with more people than they had been told initially, and whose sex lives slowed down dramatically. 

One reason women don't tell is that women are usually extremely damaged by rape. They believe it because they feel it, it is their experience, their truth.

And they see and hear that truth reflected back, often. It's been said on this thread. Someone said "At best he gets a traumatized wife". It was strongly implied that even if she hadn't cheated she was so damaged that it was a "lose-lose" for you to stay.

If this actually happened, your wife:

experienced being raped at 13 and likely felt worthless
slept around to try to gain some control but instead got pregnant at 15
was totally ditched by the guy who got her pregnant and had to be dragged into court
was shamed by her family and was told that no one would want her
had a guy who seemed to care but in the end ditched her as well, basically validating her sense of shame from her family and feeling again that she was worthless
got pregnant with you, who also didn't want to marry her and only would after a DNA test

She has little to no experience of having a trustworthy guy around- that is the inner voice that she almost certainly has, based on her experience, most of which happened before you ever showed up. No matter how good you have been to her in the past, this has probably been her inner voice, it has likely been her inner view of herself (not worth much) and of men (not safe.)

Your wife is acting like many women who have been raped act. She has similar behaviors. 
That doesn't mean that she was raped, and even if it was, it doesn't mean that she wasn't cheating- she could have been. It's just that there is very little evidence either way. 

While it is true that she could have told you the truth- another truth might be that she just did not want you to know. You are not entitled to know every little thing about your wife. It would be good if she told you, but you have made your own decisions which have also escalated things. She is not 100% to blame here. Neither of you are fully to blame and neither of you are blameless in how this has all played out.

I think you had every reason to believe she was cheating and to investigate it. 

That said, a big truth is that YOU and you alone made the decision to skip out on the birth of your child. And there are many other men who would not have missed it, even if it was not theirs, just in case it was. And I know some of those men who personally made the painful decision (and in most cases the child did not turn out to be theirs.)

I think you should get a PI because yes, they can find out more. They have resources that you do not have. 

Your family, your life, your wife's life, and the lives of five children have just been blown up. You should damn well "do it for you" and find out whether it was all blown up due to cheating, or due to your and your wife's stubbornness. This will be especially important if the PI can find evidence that she WAS in fact cheating. Otherwise you are going to have a lot of What Ifs in the future. 

I hope you get some information. This has been a horrible and emotional experience with dire consequences for all the members of your family. They are likely to be long-lasting. You should have whatever information is available. Even if you think it won't help you now, it might help you in the future.


----------



## drifting on

L81

How many times a week to the therapist, if it is a therapist?

If once a week is it the same day, example, every Tuesday at noon?

Have a PI follow her that one day, or if more days, then every day for a week.

I guarantee your wife knows of the text from her “friend”. My gut says they read the text together and cooked up his little response. The giveaway is to say, to stay away from his wife, strong marriage, yes I had sex with your wife thirteen years ago, and finally, go talk to your wife. If you want to find out, find a book about being married to a rape victim and leave it laying on the table. Her reaction will tell you all you need to know. Whatever the case may really be, your wife is shallow in that she never once tried to confront your fears. She let you wallow in pain and misery never once even trying to defend herself. If your PI can find she doesn’t go to a therapists office you know you’ve been scammed. That money would be worth it to me.


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## RoseAglow

My goal here is not to argue like cats and dogs. I'm not particularly interested in blaming you or your wife for all of you problems. My entire goal in writing has been to try to convince you to try to get more evidence on this very critical, life-changing marital situation. 

IMO you have and had every reason to be upset and concerned at your wife's behavior; you have and had every reason to DNA test your 1st and last child; you have and had every reason to be skeptical now as well.

I truly do not know whether your wife was raped, has been going to therapy, and/or has cheated on you. It could be none of the above or a combination of some or all. You don't know, either.

I don't think you should go look through the yearbooks. You have already had enough stress over the last six months snooping. Let a PI go find some yearbooks, use his/her contacts to find out about the therapy, try to get a history on this alleged OM. Does he even have a military record? A PI might find that he has been the OM to several woman. That info would also help you when you weigh things out.

I am writing a lot to you because there is so much at stake for you and the kids. Your wife, too, but she is a grown woman and she is not posting here. You are understandably furious; I think your anger might be clouding your perspective on what is going to be important in your near and long-term future.

It will be very important to your future if your wife was cheating and you can get that proof; you will have a solid answer when your kids ask you in the future why you ended up getting divorced. It will even be important to your future if you find out that your wife really was raped. It will help you understand some of her decisions, even if you are no longer married. 

Unfortunately, you will never be sure one way or the other, if the PI doesn't find any evidence of her cheating. But at least you will know that you did everything you could to get the information. And if the rape and therapy does turn out to be true, and the PI does not find any evidence of cheating, maybe you will have a way back to having at least a civil relationship later on. 

I am not saying anything that many other posters (mostly men, for those who feel that this is gender-biased) haven't said numerous times throughout your thread: bring in a professional PI. Workplace affairs are notoriously difficult to crack. Many BS never find the information out on their own.

It is my hope for you that you get some information that can help you get clarity. I truly do wish you the best.


----------



## alte Dame

If the letter from the OM is true, then the rape is tragic. If she was confiding in an old friend all these years and accepting his help to get therapy, all without telling her H A SINGLE THING about it, then OP's reaction is completely understandable, in my opinion.

Yes, there are reasons that traumatized people might not confide in the people they are supposed to be closest to, but that doesn't change the damaging effects of the secrecy. The trauma to her begets trauma to the marriage. And now there is simply too much damage. Whether the OM's story is correct, or OP's suspicions are correct, there is too much damage.

I'm sorry for all of this, but it is what it is.


----------



## L81R

drifting on said:


> L81
> 
> How many times a week to the therapist, if it is a therapist?
> 
> If once a week is it the same day, example, every Tuesday at noon?
> 
> Have a PI follow her that one day, or if more days, then every day for a week.
> 
> I guarantee your wife knows of the text from her “friend”. My gut says they read the text together and cooked up his little response. The giveaway is to say, to stay away from his wife, strong marriage, yes I had sex with your wife thirteen years ago, and finally, go talk to your wife. If you want to find out, find a book about being married to a rape victim and leave it laying on the table. Her reaction will tell you all you need to know. Whatever the case may really be, your wife is shallow in that she never once tried to confront your fears. She let you wallow in pain and misery never once even trying to defend herself. If your PI can find she doesn’t go to a therapists office you know you’ve been scammed. That money would be worth it to me.


She was going to the "therapist" 1-3x a week. 3x only happened once that I tracked. The days did not follow a pattern but the time was always the same (her lunch break). It seems irrelevant now because she is not working. She is on a 18 month maternity leave, granted even with her works top up program she may choose to go back earlier now. She has barely left the house in the last 3 weeks. There may not be anything for a PI to find regarding where she goes.


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## Chaparral

The reason most people here are wanting you to do further investigating with competent attorneys and a PI is for your own benefit. We don’t want you living your life doubting your decisions that broke up a large family. 

The rape story could’ve be totally true. But there are many holes that need filled. If she won’t talk to you then write her a letter. 

Your marriage suffers from a lack of sex. Once or twice a month is considered a sexless marriage. An affair explains that.......so does previous abuse like rape. I know a wonderful woman that was caught having consensual sex as a teenager by her father. She cannot have anything close to a normal sex life, is divorced, and rape seems like that would be even worse.

Therapy one,two, three times in one week? Is that possible? As her husband are you privy to that insurance information. Copays? Not familiar with Canadian insurance.

Bottom line though, if she isn’t willing to defend herself, it just makes her look guilty of adultery and a lack of love for her husband and family.


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## Chaparral

The times you tracked her to her appointments she was very pregnant like eight or nine months. What is the likely hood an affair partner would be interested then?

She does not, as far as you know, know that &#55349;&#56812;&#55349;&#56828;&#55349;&#56834; now know of a rape story? This hasn’t been discussed with her and you don’t inow who the supposed rapist was?


----------



## drifting on

L81

I’m asking you how often for therapy as twice a week is considered to be intensive. Three times a week would be borderline committed if they can’t cope for more then a day at a time. Then she gives birth, stops therapy cold from 2-3 times per week, timing for post partum depression at its peak, no therapist would allow her to quit cold. Not with everything that is going on, NOBODY would place their license in jeopardy with such high risks. I think the therapy and text are bull——, but that’s my opinion. What you need to compare is behavior to 2-3 times a week therapy, work, work stress, life stress, family stress, and finally marriage stress. Her coping skills would be tested at an exceptional level, how she responds would be with anger and defensiveness. 

Look at her behavior, how is she acting, I would say arrogantly and defiantly. She is believing her own lies, confident she will make you break, and not at all afraid to lose her marriage. Did you live more like roommates before this all started? Would you say she was vulnerable or guarded? 

Also, some men love to be with a pregnant very late in their term, OM may be this way.


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## L81R

Chaparral said:


> The reason most people here are wanting you to do further investigating with competent attorneys and a PI is for your own benefit. We don’t want you living your life doubting your decisions that broke up a large family.
> 
> The rape story could’ve be totally true. But there are many holes that need filled. If she won’t talk to you then write her a letter.
> 
> Your marriage suffers from a lack of sex. Once or twice a month is considered a sexless marriage. An affair explains that.......so does previous abuse like rape. I know a wonderful woman that was caught having consensual sex as a teenager by her father. She cannot have anything close to a normal sex life, is divorced, and rape seems like that would be even worse.
> 
> Therapy one,two, three times in one week? Is that possible? As her husband are you privy to that insurance information. Copays? Not familiar with Canadian insurance.
> 
> Bottom line though, if she isn’t willing to defend herself, it just makes her look guilty of adultery and a lack of love for her husband and family.


I will reconsider hiring the PI again. I do not want to regret my decision down the road, though I feel like regardless of the outcome our marriage is done. She is completely unwilling to work with me on anything. I will contact the PI again and talk about what I need. 

If our sex life is directly related to her affair, then she has been having an affair for our whole marriage. We have never had a strong sex life. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised by an emotional affair that turned sexual. 

A quick breakdown of our insurance. Our insurance is through my wife's employer (I'm going to have to be removed). She pays $60/month for coverage for our family. That covers 80% of therapies, services, medications etc. We walk in for an appointment, the bill is say $100, we pay $20 and walk out. We are not billed/mailed anything. No deductible. There are caps on some services (either a total spent, dental is $2500/year for each person). Looking at our agreement, there is no limit on therapies. 

Looking at the pricing from that therapist, if my wife were going there she would be paying $45 for each visit. Affording that wouldn't be a problem. However I haven't seen any payments on her debit and I haven't seen any statements showing the payments. 

So possible that she is going to a therapist 1, 2 sometimes 3 times a week. Yes, I guess it's _possible_. More likely than another man being interested in her while pregnant? I think it depends on whether or not he thought he was the father. 

I have not discussed my wife's "rape" with her yet. I am speaking with her parents today, and based on what they say I will talk to her. One more time, then I'm done. If they confirm none of that is true, and they will know, then I will know the *******'s story was a lie and coverup. I don't know who the alleged rapist is, her "friend" wouldn't tell me because it's "not his story to tell". They probably didn't iron out that detail.


----------



## Steve2.0

Did you reach out to the OM and his wife at the same time?
I'm wondering if you tipped him off and he is doing all this to make sure his wife never see's it. Blocking you on facebook and telling you that they have a "all trust, no lies" marriage... Or deleting the text you sent her before she saw it (followed by logging into her facebook, etc..)

She might not even know you tried to reach out if he intercepted it.


----------



## ButtPunch

Steve2.0 said:


> Did you reach out to the OM and his wife at the same time?
> I'm wondering if you tipped him off and he is doing all this to make sure his wife never see's it. Blocking you on facebook and telling you that they have a "all trust, no lies" marriage... Or deleting the text you sent her before she saw it (followed by logging into her facebook, etc..)
> 
> She might not even know you tried to reach out if he intercepted it.


Agreed


----------



## Beach123

As a woman who wants to cheat - being pregnant is ideal - mainly because there is no risk at becoming pregnant by another man during that timeframe. Just my observation.

And I think it's suspect that not onepayment is seen going to any therapist if she's been going that often. That guy is making himself unbelievable.


----------



## Chaparral

Of you don’t find any confirmation soon, contact his wife and just tell her you are willing to talk to her and your wife has not confirmed anything about his story and you have filed divorce. Make sure you talk to his wife as he will be mate guarding. Also, tell her you will not be contacting her again unless she reaches out to you.


----------



## honcho

You mentioned her family is religious and her early pregnancy was a big issue in the family. She could very well have not told her parents either about the rape if it indeed happened.


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## ABHale

Her parents would know about the ex bf OM. If he actually was part of her life for 2 1/2 years like he claims. There is quite a bit her parents can explain. 

This still has nothing to do with the coworker and how and why they got so close. If she was rapped why make this guy a close friend. Why let the marriage fail for the sake of the friendship. She could have put a end to all the questions at the beginning and chose not too. 

I think you should pull the parking pass out of her car and lay it on the kitchen counter for her to find.


----------



## L81R

I met with my wife's mother today and walked away with more questions than answers it seems. I thought it would help, and it did on one hand, but on the other hand it didn't. Part of me wanted her to tell me that it was all complete BS, it would make my life easier.

My MIL confirmed that my wife was very close to the OM in their childhoods and they were in a relationship (from the time she was pregnant until around high school graduation). He asked my wife's father if he could marry her. Her parents did not approve of them dating. 

When she got pregnant, her parents didn't know she had a boyfriend and wouldn't have allowed her to have one. She was seeing a boy at her high school (my step sons father) and got pregnant. Her parents advised her not to tell the father or be involved with him. She was pulled out of school for the last term and went back after the baby was born. The father was not in the picture. Her parents didn't agree with finding the father, they said she was about 20. 

She said my wife was never raped but did try to tell them she was "touched" by a family friend. They looked into it and found nothing, she admitted to lying because she wanted to stay at a friend's house rather than his house when her parents went on a trip. She thought my wife's was 14 when she made that accusation. 

My wife has a couple boxes of memorabilia at her parent's house. I looked through it and did find baby pictures of my step-son with the OM and some family pictures with my wife in them as well. There was a folder of court documents, regarding the DNA test and custody of her step-son and his biological father. Based on the date it was finalized, my step-son would have been almost 4. I recognize the box housing the pictures, it use to be in our closet. 

The court documents technically match the timeline, but that was only the date things were finalized. Custody battles can take years, so it doesn't actually prove anything.

What I have proves part of his story was correct, he was in her and my step-son life. It doesn't prove the alleged "rape" or disprove an affair. The story very well could be true, and they had an affair on top of it.

So what I do know for sure is that my wife is a liar. Everyone has a different story, because my wife has always been a liar. It seems like everything in her life is wound around lies. 

Should I confront her with this new information? How? Her parents are not going to speak with her about it until I get the chance to. They did not know we were divorcing and do not approve. 

This marriage is done. She's a pathological liar at best. She never trusted me enough to tell me the truth, something I could have found out if her parents slipped unknowingly. I am her husband, we've been together for 10 years and have 4 kids, but she didn't trust me. If we could get on good terms we could at least have a decent shot at co-parenting. Just admit that we were wrong for each other and move on. 

How could I have spent a decade with her and not have seen this? Is she that good of a liar or am I just an idiot? My kids are stuck with her as their mother.

She has always been guarded, never vulnerable. She has never talked to me when she is upset and doesn't tell me what on her mind. Her communication is terrible.

What the **** is the truth. Who is she. Just because part of the story matches doesn't mean the rest is true. We all know my wife is a pathological liar, her "friend" could be as well. She hid him from me for a reason, she wasn't really done with him. My MIL said she always thought they would get back together.


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## farsidejunky

If the marriage is done then confrontation is pointless.


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## L81R

farsidejunky said:


> If the marriage is done then confrontation is pointless.


Surely telling her she can stop the act would get us on better terms to co-parent


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## Windwalker

OP,
Only you know what your breaking point is.
Only you can make the decision to move on or not.

Trust is a foundational principle in all relationships.

Food for thought.


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## farsidejunky

L81R said:


> Surely telling her she can stop the act would get us on better terms to co-parent


Telling her anything will likely accomplish little.


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## sokillme

L81R said:


> I met with my wife's mother today and walked away with more questions than answers it seems. I thought it would help, and it did on one hand, but on the other hand it didn't. Part of me wanted her to tell me that it was all complete BS, it would make my life easier.
> 
> My MIL confirmed that my wife was very close to the OM in their childhoods and they were in a relationship (from the time she was pregnant until around high school graduation). He asked my wife's father if he could marry her. Her parents did not approve of them dating.
> 
> When she got pregnant, her parents didn't know she had a boyfriend and wouldn't have allowed her to have one. She was seeing a boy at her high school (my step sons father) and got pregnant. Her parents advised her not to tell the father or be involved with him. She was pulled out of school for the last term and went back after the baby was born. The father was not in the picture. Her parents didn't agree with finding the father, they said she was about 20.
> 
> She said my wife was never raped but did try to tell them she was "touched" by a family friend. They looked into it and found nothing, she admitted to lying because she wanted to stay at a friend's house rather than his house when her parents went on a trip. She thought my wife's was 14 when she made that accusation.
> 
> My wife has a couple boxes of memorabilia at her parent's house. I looked through it and did find baby pictures of my step-son with the OM and some family pictures with my wife in them as well. There was a folder of court documents, regarding the DNA test and custody of her step-son and his biological father. Based on the date it was finalized, my step-son would have been almost 4. I recognize the box housing the pictures, it use to be in our closet.
> 
> The court documents technically match the timeline, but that was only the date things were finalized. Custody battles can take years, so it doesn't actually prove anything.
> 
> What I have proves part of his story was correct, he was in her and my step-son life. It doesn't prove the alleged "rape" or disprove an affair. The story very well could be true, and they had an affair on top of it.
> 
> So what I do know for sure is that my wife is a liar. Everyone has a different story, because my wife has always been a liar. It seems like everything in her life is wound around lies.
> 
> Should I confront her with this new information? How? Her parents are not going to speak with her about it until I get the chance to. They did not know we were divorcing and do not approve.
> 
> This marriage is done. She's a pathological liar at best. She never trusted me enough to tell me the truth, something I could have found out if her parents slipped unknowingly. I am her husband, we've been together for 10 years and have 4 kids, but she didn't trust me. If we could get on good terms we could at least have a decent shot at co-parenting. Just admit that we were wrong for each other and move on.
> 
> How could I have spent a decade with her and not have seen this? Is she that good of a liar or am I just an idiot? My kids are stuck with her as their mother.
> 
> She has always been guarded, never vulnerable. She has never talked to me when she is upset and doesn't tell me what on her mind. Her communication is terrible.
> 
> What the **** is the truth. Who is she. Just because part of the story matches doesn't mean the rest is true. We all know my wife is a pathological liar, her "friend" could be as well. She hid him from me for a reason, she wasn't really done with him. My MIL said she always thought they would get back together.


All this is true, I also have no dispute that you should stay together. Living with someone who could lie to you so much seems like hell on earth. The one thing I would say though is, say it IS true (which is a big if and needs to be further investigated) then it may not have been a lie born out of malice. Rape is the kind of thing that brings deep shame especially if it is done so young. That doesn't mean you have to stay in the marriage or you should. But it may help you decide if you want to forgive her and how you want to be with her going forward as co-parents. 

Even still not sure how you can get to the bottom of this if she will not talk to you. Maybe tell her her guy friend told you what is going on (keep it that vague), what she was doing at that building and if she wants to at least co-parent you need to talk about it. Tell her that she owes it to you for 10 years of your effort of love in your marriage. Give her one last shot to tell you the truth. Then see if her story matches up with him. Still this could be something they both planned but say she is getting counseling then you can ask to have her take you to go see her counselor. That would go a long way to proving it's true. 

Lets say it's true, she was raped at a young age and is trying to heal from it. There was no affair or sex with another men, just deep shame and confusion where would that put you? As far as this guy, say she wasn't ****ing him, only he was just a long lost love who knew her secret, lots of people have that. I don't think just that would be a deal breaker for me, when you have no smoking gun that she even wanted to be with him. 

Personally the story seem like an elaborate lie and if I was a betting man I would bet it is, maybe some truth thrown in to throw you off. But if there is any chance it's true for your kids sake if it was me I would at least try to talk to her. But don't let her know what you know. 

Anyway I don't think you are wrong even if his story is the truth. that is a pretty big lie of omission. Enough to divorce over in my mind. But if it was me and I was absoultly certain that it was true, I think I would work to forgive and start over.


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## MJJEAN

L81R said:


> Surely telling her she can stop the act would get us on better terms to co-parent


She's a pathological liar. Really, there's no point to confronting her. I've BTDT with my exH. It's frustrating to even try because pathological liars are fairly incapable of truth, even when they know that you know they're liars.

In case you're wondering, I haven't personally spoken to my ex in many years, but I am friendly with his mother and my now adult children very occasionally speak with him via social media. He's still a liar. He was a liar before I met him. He was a liar when we were involved, he was a liar when I divorced him, he's still a liar 18 years later. It's his nature.


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## ABHale

L81R said:


> Surely telling her she can stop the act would get us on better terms to co-parent


At least it would put a end to the poor me and your a bastard act. 

Still think you should ask her to explain the parking pass and why it’s in her old bf’s name. Also start rattling off the dates you know she was there for lunch and if the two of them enjoyed themselves.


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## Beach123

You may never know what her history is. It's messy for sure. 

But loads of evidence still says she's got someone on the hook now - and that may be why she doesn't intend to talk to you... she's too focused on her relationship with him/or several men who interest her.

I'd walk away knowing she's not a match for you. She's in her own world and never let you in.

With all the things you describe about her - she won't be a good partner for anyone.


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## Dyokemm

Well OP,

I agree with you.....

The talk with WW’s mom actually raises as many questions as it answered.....

But it did provide some key facts regarding what to think of POSOM’s messages IMO.....

POS said ‘childhood rape’ and he was just being a ‘good friend’ trying to help her.....

MIL confirms ‘no rape’.....

So....POSOM was definitely lying, even if other parts of his story like his R with WW and being ‘dad’ to step-son have been confirmed.....

So question is why did he lie about the rape and what he was doing with WW in recent years?

IMO....it is a smoke-screen to throw off his BW who saw your messages.....

He has thrown in the ‘rape’ and his KISA actions towards your WW to convince his BW that he was only ‘helping a friend’.....he mixed in the facts about the past R with your WW and being ‘dad’ to your step-son because, unlike you who has been totally kept in the dark about ANY of this by your WW, he has probably already told his BW about his past relationship.....

He just needed a good excuse for his BW to explain why he was CURRENTLY talking to her to gaslight her since your contact was accusing them of an A.....so he makes himself out to be a savior and great friend, and rewrites an ‘explanation’ of the first email you discovered and how it is YOU who are misreading everything because you are a horrible H who hasn’t supported or communicated with his traumatized W so she had to come looking for support from him....

Of course, he is glossing over the question of why the h*ll he ever reached out to her after years of NC in the first place.....because THAT is a fact inconvenient to his portrayal of just being someone your suffering W reached out to for help.

IMO....what you learned from MIL is evidence that OM is trying to gaslight his BW and you as to what has been going on and why he has been in contact secretly with your WW.

Now WHY would he be doing that?........The most obvious answer is because something shady has been going on.

And your WW is staying silent because she knows she has been busted.....but that you do not know the whole truth yet so she is clamming up.

She may not have even known whose child it really was......and simply got lucky that the DNA test did not confirm further that she was in an A.

She isn’t throwing that in your face though because she knows SILENCE is the best defense she has right now given the facts that led you to want the DNA test in the first place.....

She has no good explanation or story like OM is trying to throw out to gaslight you.


----------



## Edmund

L81R said:


> I met with my wife's mother today ...


L81R,

To be honest, most of what you are finding out is confirming the CF's story... some details may be different which is understandable given the amount of time that has passed. But the story is more true than not.

CF says your wife was raped. MIL says your wife claimed that, but MIL thought at the time she was making a story up to avoid staying with a certain family member instead of friends. Remember that your MIL didn't even know about the boyfriend that is the father of your step-son until after the pregnancy. It sounds like her parents disapproved of her every mistake instead of giving her guidance in a loving way.

It seems to me that you are dead set on divorce (do you have someone waiting in the wings?) and so stubborn that you can't change your mind in the face of new evidence that indicates she didn't cheat with anyone, not the Persian Bayan guy, and not the CF. You thought she did and all of us on TAM thought so too, based on your posts. Maybe she had an EA with Persian guy or others. She said she didn't cheat and never would. You say she's lying. Maybe, maybe not. Suppose this is all a terrible mistake?

By the two of you not talking about this, you are not trying to get information from the one person who actually knows the truth, whether she will tell it to you or not.

Fact is, you have four children including a new-born, plus your relationship with the step-son, that you are so eager to get rid of. These children are going to need their father full time. Whatever she did, it is not their fault.

Right now, you don't trust her because she has not been fully transparent with you (to put it mildly). But if she has lied, the lies appear to be lies of omission.

She may never forgive you for not being there for the birth of your baby. 

CF kept saying, talk to your wife. You should take his advice.

You still do not have some crucial facts:

Is she really in therapy? Therapy appointments sound more likely to me than some man meeting her at lunchtime for sex when she's 9 months pregnant.
You need to get a HIPPA form from the psychiatrist in question, get her to sign it, and find out... how long has she been under his care, what is the diagnosis, what is the progress of the treatment, and who is paying for the appointments. If that checks out, you have some serious re-evaluating (or as you said second-guessing) to do about your next steps.

TAM folks: it is time for the divorce chorus to stop singing for awhile. We really don't know what has happened here. We are a little too eager to blow up this family at this point. It would be useful if we could hear L81R's wife's side of the story, but since they are not talking, that is unlikely.

L81R, my advice at this time is to try to establish at least some form of communication with wife. Your wife, if she wants to keep the marriage, is going to have to communicate a lot better with you about her past history.

Be tender and loving with the baby and all of the other children. The older ones must suspect by now that something is terribly wrong.

Continue to verify the facts as best you can. Put the divorce on hold until you have more facts about your wife's history and recent activities.

Toughest of all, because CF actually is a Childhood Friend and former relationship who loved your wife, served as a father to your step-son, but then abandoned them to go in the military, and still feels guilty about that all these years, enough to assist her to get therapy, and was genuinely surprised that she didn't tell you a lot of this stuff (although he must have known that you did not know about the therapy).... The fact is, you should then consider establishing some sort of respectful relationship with CF, if your wife is gong to continue to communicate with him and accept his help with the parking spot, so that you know what is going on with them.

In your first post you said: "*We have had ups and downs, what marriage hasn't, but I wouldn't say we have a bad marriage.*" Your wife appears to be spirit-broken, and she needs someone to lean on. Doesn't seem like her parents are going to be that much help there. But the fact that, even after 10 years of marriage, she hasn't told you many important things about her past, suggests that she doesn't think you will support her and she may be afraid of your reaction to knowing this deep dark stuff from her teenage years. Could it be that you are part of the problem?

As usual, I could be completely wrong. I am just some random stranger on the internet.

Good luck, I hope it works out somehow.


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## DjDjani

L81R, let go that story, what about hidding lap top and phone, changing hard drive? She changed hard drive so you couldnt retrive data from it. All those evidence you descrived is pointing that she was cheating. That story is just another thing that proves to you that your wife is not a women for you. Sorry man.


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## manfromlamancha

All you know so far is that she appears to be hiding something and you do not know what it is. Is it a case of you have tried to talk to her and she will not open up ?


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## Chaparral

Like I said, this is a tricky wicket, well, that could be the understatement of the decade.

It does make sense to her to hide everything she has been doing. She may just be dealing with this with you like she HAD to do with her parents. She had to hide everything from her parents because of their strong beliefs. I have know families like that. She had a different life than they did. Even the story that they could not, or was it would not, corroborate could be completely true and worse than she even admitted to them.
The way she is treating you can easily be seen as the way her parents inadvertently taught her to deal with them when it came to problems.

She isn’t a pathological liar though. She definitely has a conscience. She thinks she has to lie to survive due to her parents extreme beliefs.

You might approach her with an offer. Tell her you have talked to various people. Tell her you have two completely different versions of what has been happening. After you get another PI report of course. And then offer her reconcilliation if she can pass a polygraph.

If there were no children involved I would simply walk. Just to complicated/confusing. BUT, half the time if not more, she is going to be struggling mightily with four children by herself. I can’t see much of a chance of her marrying again with a decent man having four kids but she might find a less than appropriate partner that would not be safe around your kids.


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## Maxwedge 413

In a few years from now the only truth that will matter is the "truth" that your children believe. Did Dad leave because Mom had been cheating on him? Or did Dad just go crazy and leave? And abandon us?

Get the PI. It'll be worth the cost.


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## badmemory

L81R said:


> She said my wife was never raped but did try to tell them she was "touched" by a family friend. They looked into it and found nothing, *she admitted to lying because she wanted to stay at a friend's house rather than his house when her parents went on a trip.* She thought my wife's was 14 when she made that accusation.


Scary. You'd be well advised to have a VAR on you at all times when around her. There's no telling what she's capable of. 

It seems she started lying at a young age and never stopped. She needs help but you need out.


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## Chaparral

badmemory said:


> Scary. You'd be well advised to have a VAR on you at all times when around her. There's no telling what she's capable of.
> 
> It seems she started lying at a young age and never stopped. She needs help but you need out.


What you’re saying is true. But from what we have heard, she could not trust her parents to there through thick and thin. Her parents may be justifying their actions.

She has definitely been traumatized. Her way of dealing with the current situation is proof of that. 

Another possibility is the biggest trauma, rape or not, may be when her boyfriend left her after taking the roll as husband and father and simply disappearing off the face of the earth.
Now she is looking at another abandonment times four. No one there for the birth of her child. It looks like she has shut down. 

Was there an affair or is this a woman struggling to make things work the way she has been taught to make things work by her parents. There is no doubt she has brought the current troubles to her own doorstep. The question is, with her up bringing did she see that as her only option.?

There are at least two really plausible explanations here, probably more, and evidence for both. Too many lives hang in the balance to simply go forward without more information.



Now


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## ButtPunch

His whole marriage has been a lie.

She doesn't even care to try and fix it.

Hard 180.


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## bandit.45

Maybe she wasn't cheating. That isn't the point now is it? The big dead moose in the driveway is the fact that she most likely hid and lied about several key events in her life that her husband should have been privy to. 

You cannot base a marriage on lies, deceit and obfuscation. I'm sick to death of posters who claim that L81R was not entitled to know about his wife's rape as a teenager and all the other sordid things that happened to her prior to their marriage just because she was too afraid to tell him. That's a bunch of bullsh!t. A person has every right in the world to know the truth about the person they are pledging their life, career and finances to; and in this case it is obvious that L81R does not know who his wife is. She has been an award-winning actress their whole marriage. 

I don't care if she is the best mom in the world. It doesn't absolve her from her responsibilities to the truth, and to her marriage and her husband. He has tried to crack her shell and all she does is retreat further into it. That is not the behavior of an adult, or any person that belongs in a marriage.


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## dubsey

what a web of **** you have to deal with...

Only way toward anything resembling the truth, would be to get together with the OM wife - see if she's heard anything about anything, or even knows if any of this is going on - knowledge of the parking space, etc. And honestly, only bother to do that if you need to know what happened. The web of lies would be enough for me to walk away, and just look back at it in 10 years like "you just can't make that stuff up" when you're drinking around a campfire telling stories to your new friends who weren't apart of this life.


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## ButtPunch

bandit.45 said:


> Maybe she wasn't cheating. That isn't the point now is it? The big dead moose in the driveway is the fact that she most likely hid and lied about several key events in her life that her husband should have been privy to.
> 
> You cannot base a marriage on lies, deceit and obfuscation. I'm sick to death of posters who claim that L81R was not entitled to know about his wife's rape as a teenager and all the other sordid things that happened to her prior to their marriage just because she was too afraid to tell him. That's a bunch of bullsh!t. A person has every right in the world to know the truth about the person they are pledging their life, career and finances to; and in this case it is obvious that L81R does not know who his wife is. She has been an award-winning actress their whole marriage.
> 
> I don't care if she is the best mom in the world. It doesn't absolve her from her responsibilities to the truth, and to her marriage and her husband. He has tried to crack her shell and all she does is retreat further into it. That is not the behavior of an adult, or any person that belongs in a marriage.


Not to mention the secret "ex-lover" she discreetly texts and meets up with.


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## farsidejunky

ButtPunch said:


> Not to mention the secret "ex-lover" she discreetly texts and meets up with.


This.

This has been an ongoing emotional affair, assuming it hasn't actually gone physical.

I find it incredibly interesting that people expect him to dig deep into this because his actions are leading to his wife having her post trauma beliefs "confirmed". 

In other words, they are blaming the OP for her effectively creating a self-fulfilling prophecy.

"They always leave when they see the real me, so I'm going to hide the real me from them."


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## Chaparral

Unless the truth is found, he doesn’t know if she has lied or not. For example, ex boyfriend said she was raped not her. Her parents say she wasn’t. She hasn’t lied yet about where she was going for lunch. They haven’t discussed it unless I missed it. She didn’t lie about whose child it was. The letter her ex sent her made it sound like something that just happened. It was actually a long time ago. Etc.


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## badmemory

Chaparral said:


> Unless the truth is found, he doesn’t know if she has lied or not. *For example, ex boyfriend said she was raped not her. Her parents say she wasn’t.*


She lied to one of them.


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## re16

At a minimum, she was in long term EA (getting emotional support from an ex.) Couple that with significant long term lies which mean she has actually never been fully truthful with L81. Those two facts alone are grounds to end it.

Add in intentional deceit of hiding computer, phone.... game over.


Regarding her lunch visits, supposedly 3x per week to IC - who does that? 18 years later, with no record of transactions, it doesn't add up all.

I would want to get to the bottom of it all and get hard evidence to blow up old flame to his wife after what he's tried to do to you. The specific lies will actually make it easier to prove or disprove.


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## Chaparral

badmemory said:


> She lied to one of them.


Possibly, the ex bf might have assumed if she said something happened to her. And he could be lying about any or all of it. 

This is a no briainer if no kids were involved. However, if everything that happened to her or even most of it, she may not be a safe parent if she is abandoned once again. Trapped people do awful things.


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## re16

There is a lot on the line here, you really need to get to the bottom of it.

Focus on the parking spot and why he has it. Do you think he is really paying for a spot there for your wife to use? No way. He has a property there. Find it.

Talk to the door man or PI about it or stake it out yourself, whatever.... this is a key to finding out what is actually going on.


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## Dutchman1

*This will be a key to open Pandora's box*



re16 said:


> There is a lot on the line here, you really need to get to the bottom of it.
> 
> Focus on the parking spot and why he has it. Do you think he is really paying for a spot there for your wife to use? No way. *He has a property there.* Find it.
> 
> Talk to the door man or PI about it or stake it out yourself, whatever.... this is a key to finding out what is actually going on.


Connect the dotts. Find a better PI

Dutchman1


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## OutofRetirement

It is possible to get raped and not tell your parents. Even when your are 13 or 14.

I have sisters. I am not aware they were ever raped. But if a husband asked me, I wouldn't be so sure to say, "It never happened." I would say, "I'm not aware of it. I would think I would have known." Also, I would be extremely upset to hear it and might reach out to talk to her.

Her parents' reaction to the husband rings wrong.

Me, personally, I would just stick to the facts I know. She parks there 1-3 times a week. The former lover texted her at least five times in January after many years. She started becoming interested in Persian food. Byon calls her 
"hun" and she is nonplussed by it. She slept (still does?) with her phone under her pillow. She started hiding her laptop when she left the house, hiding it in an unused dryer in the house. Former lover was in fact in the pictures with her and son.


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## Chaparral

OutofRetirement said:


> It is possible to get raped and not tell your parents. Even when your are 13 or 14.
> 
> I have sisters. I am not aware they were ever raped. But if a husband asked me, I wouldn't be so sure to say, "It never happened." I would say, "I'm not aware of it. I would think I would have known." Also, I would be extremely upset to hear it and might reach out to talk to her.
> 
> Her parents' reaction to the husband rings wrong.
> 
> Me, personally, I would just stick to the facts I know. She parks there 1-3 times a week. The former lover texted her at least five times in January after many years. She started becoming interested in Persian food. Byon calls her
> "hun" and she is nonplussed by it. She slept (still does?) with her phone under her pillow. She started hiding her laptop when she left the house, hiding it in an unused dryer in the house. Former lover was in fact in the pictures with her and son.


Was it only five texts? And he starts an affair with a six month pregnant ex with three other kids. If this actually turns out to be true it has to be in the top ten weirdest affairs here. I guess the relative and father in law affairs were worse. They all take the cake.


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## OutofRetirement

Why did he call her 5 times in 9 days in January - post #337

There was one text, which matched the number that had called her multiple times. The text came after the calls. No calls after the text. - post #227

That's what I was talking about.

She was parking in his spot, so I believe she must have been talking to him more than that.


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## BigDigg

OutofRetirement said:


> It is possible to get raped and not tell your parents. Even when your are 13 or 14..


Absolutely and food for thought. I'm not an expert but you hear stories in the media all the time where parents go into denial themselves and fail to properly back their kids or push the issue. The kid senses they don't have full and complete trust and then back off, rug sweep or lie/downplay to avoid any perceived shame and make a painful situation go away. This seems to happen more often when the suspected rapist is a esteemed family member, church official, etc., but not all parents handle this well. Of course there are also situations where someone makes up a story for attention or other reasons too.

All I'm saying is that it's possible that the wife isn't actually lying and still hasn't properly addressed a very traumatic experience that could still be sending shock waves today. Just because the Mom downplays this doesn't mean something very bad didn't happen. As always getting to the truth in these matters is very difficult when all involved have very strong emotions, significant time has elapsed to cloud memories, and there are very powerful forces for each person to influence their perception and motives.


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## Malaise

OutofRetirement said:


> It is possible to get raped and not tell your parents. Even when your are 13 or 14.


I'm only in the last few years been aware that my late wife was a victim of CSA.

Something which her closest friends and family ( and I ) were not aware. And knowing this now explains so much of her behavior during our marriage.

So it's possible.


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## SentHereForAReason

Malaise said:


> I'm only in the last few years been aware that my late wife was a victim of CSA.
> 
> Something which her closest friends and family ( and I ) were not aware. And knowing this now explains so much of her behavior during our marriage.
> 
> So it's possible.


My counselor is convinced, even assumes that my (STBX)wife is a victim of CSA. I only mentioned it to 2 of my closest inner circle people her side of the family and they of course say there's no way. My counselor for the last few months now, doesn't even talk as if it were a maybe, she addresses it as if it actually happened, it's crazy.


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## BluesPower

stillfightingforus said:


> My counselor is convinced, even assumes that my (STBX)wife is a victim of CSA. I only mentioned it to 2 of my closest inner circle people her side of the family and they of course say there's no way. My counselor for the last few months now, doesn't even talk as if it were a maybe, she addresses it as if it actually happened, it's crazy.


While it may explain their behavior and help you understand it, it still is never an excuse for an affair. 

And it never will be.


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## Cynthia

BluesPower said:


> While it may explain their behavior and help you understand it, it still is never an excuse for an affair.
> 
> And it never will be.


Absolutely, but I don't think anyone here is saying that. The issue here is that it could explain some of the behavior that led the OP to believe his wife is/was having an affair when what may be happening is that she was using the parking space of an old boyfriend to park when seeing a therapist who specializes in rape trauma therapy.


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## re16

L81 - How are you doing?


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## Beach123

Any update?


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## IanMcEwan

You can recover her deleted text messages to found out if you are not sure. 
But there are still some physical signs your wife is cheating:

SHE’S NOT AS TALKATIVE ANYMORE
SHE’S BECOME INDIFFERENT
SEXUAL ABSTINENCE OR WAY TOO ADVENTUROUS IN BED
DEFENSIVE MUCH
Never lets the phone out of her sight


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