# Mystery of a "non-relationship"?



## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Good morning, everyone,

This question is mostly directed to the men, but I'd like to hear the experiences from women as well. 

_"I'm not looking for a (serious) relationship"_

Those dreaded words women sometimes hear from men. Yet, those same men go on to ACT/BEHAVE as if they're in a (serious) relationship. They don't call you their "girlfriend" but they ACT/BEHAVE like a boyfriend. They will: 

_Display affection publically (holding hands, putting his arm around her, etc.)

Text during the day just to say 'hi'

Talk about his problems at work/with his family/with his kids/with his friends

Be sexually exclusive

Go on dates such as to restaurants, movies, concerts, etc. (he refers to going to these places as "dates")

Meet her friends and/or family

Be available for her, if needed (a ride to the airport, fixing her computer, etc.)_

I've known of men to exhibit ALL of the above behaviors and then some, yet refer to the woman as his "friend-with benefits" or simply his "friend". Heck, I even read about a man who was living with a woman for 5 years, had 2 children with her, and when she asked when they were going to make their relationship official, he said, "Relationship? We're not in a relationship!" :scratchhead: 

So, I'm confused. 

What defines a "girlfriend"? 
What defines a "serious" relationship?

Thanks for your answers in advance!

Vega


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

For me, a serious relationship would lead to cohabitation and perhaps marriage. It would probably be exclusive, as well.

If I were to NOT want a serious relationship, then those options are off the table (at least for me), and the relationship would be more like a FWB scenario.

A "girlfriend" is anyone I'm dating, whether or not there is any serious intent. A FWB can be a girlfriend, too.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

A guy who tells you he wants a serious relationship is probably looking for sex but may also be seriously looking for a wife. A guy who flat out tells you he isn't looking for a serious relationship is looking for sex. Anything said or done in the quest for sex is authorized for a male. He can knock boots with you for the next twenty years and if you bring up marriage, he'll remind you that he truthfully told you he wasn't interested in a serious relationship. Saying, "I'm not looking for a serious relationship" sounds better than, "I want to bang your brains out" but the intent is the same.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

unbelievable said:


> A guy who tells you he wants a serious relationship is probably looking for sex but may also be seriously looking for a wife. A guy who flat out tells you he isn't looking for a serious relationship is looking for sex. Anything said or done in the quest for sex is authorized for a male. He can knock boots with you for the next twenty years and if you bring up marriage, he'll remind you that he truthfully told you he wasn't interested in a serious relationship. Saying, "I'm not looking for a serious relationship" sounds better than, "I want to bang your brains out" but the intent is the same.


Does a "serious relationship" ALWAYS include marriage? 

Can we have "serious relationships" that don't include marching toward the alter or even living together?


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> A FWB can be a girlfriend, too.


What would be the difference between a FWB and a "girlfriend"?


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

Vega said:


> Does a "serious relationship" ALWAYS include marriage?
> 
> Can we have "serious relationships" that don't include marching toward the alter or even living together?


doesn't have to be marriage, could just mean shopping to find the right one for a LTR or a marriage. Or an exclusive relationship.

To your 2nd question, yes, but probably most people assume that if a serious relationship lasts long enough, you go to the altar or move in together. Probalby timing more than anything else.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

If he is interested in marriage, he knows how to propose. If he is interested in living together he knows how to give you a set of keys. If he only hangs out with you and has sex with you, he's interested in hanging out and having sex. If you are interested in a long term commitment don't get involved with a guy who tells you he's not interested in a long term commitment. 
I suppose a serious relationship could mean marriage to you or it could mean something temporary in the back seat of his Lincoln. You get to define that for yourself and so does he. In any case, paying attention to any person's actions reveals more truth than listening to their words. You're either getting the behaviors from him that you want or you aren't. Does it matter what label you attach to it?


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## batsociety (Jan 23, 2015)

There isn't an answer to this question. What defines a relationship depends on the person, and how they feel. 

But I think when people say they don't want a "serious" relationship it doesn't necessarily mean that they want an open-relationship, or a friend-with-benefits. I think it generally means "I don't want to talk about moving in together, marriage or kids, I want my space, I don't want to see you every single day" etc. I mean, we all know that person who still dates like they're fourteen and have their first girl or boyfriend, and one meeting turns into an instant obsession. Not really an ideal situation for someone who just wants to hang out and take their time.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

unbelievable said:


> I suppose a serious relationship could mean marriage to you or it could mean something temporary in the back seat of his Lincoln.





> In any case, paying attention to any person's actions reveals more truth than listening to their words.


See, I heard just the opposite when it comes to a man saying that he doesn't want a serious relationship. Just because he's ACTING like he's in a serious relationship doesn't mean (to him) that he's actually IN one. He can get all the benefits of a serious relationship without putting a label on it. 



> Does it matter what label you attach to it?


Yes, it does matter. If I showed a picture of a circle to 10 different people and asked them what it was--and got 10 different answers--I'd be pretty confused!


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

I don't think you should rely on just actions, or on just words. What you should be looking for is having actions and words match. If a guys says he's looking for a relationship, but not behaving that way, then he's not really looking for a relationship. If a guy says he's not looking for a relationship, then he's not, even if he seems to be behaving relationship-y. If you want a relationship, you need to find a guy who both says that's what he wants and behaves as if it is. The words and deeds need to match.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

batsociety said:


> I think it generally means "I don't want to talk about moving in together, marriage or kids, I want my space, I don't want to see you every single day" etc.


See, I would classify that as "casually dating". May or may not include sex (yet). For a moment, let's say it DOES include sex.

But if it includes sex, the person I'm doing this with may see what you've described as FWB. 

Seems like the only labels that are allowed these days are reserved for "fiancé" or "husband/wife".


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Rowan said:


> If a guy says he's not looking for a relationship, then he's not, even if he seems to be behaving relationship-y.


But if he isn't looking for a relationship, then why is he behaving relationship-y? THAT'S what I've been trying to figure out! :scratchhead:


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Because he wants the trappings and benefits of a relationship, without any of the commitment or responsibility of one.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Vega said:


> But if he isn't looking for a relationship, then why is he behaving relationship-y? THAT'S what I've been trying to figure out! :scratchhead:


He likes the perks of the relationship without committing himself to anything, and without committing anything to you (possibility of a future together). It also prevents you from developing any expectations of him.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Vega said:


> What would be the difference between a FWB and a "girlfriend"?


A FWB is clearly not intended to ever progress into a romantic relationship or commitment. A girlfriend may or may not progress to anything serious - time will tell (unless they are also clearly FWB, then time probably won't matter - they'll stay FWB because there's a reason to not go beyond that).


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Vega said:


> Yes, it does matter. If I showed a picture of a circle to 10 different people and asked them what it was--and got 10 different answers--I'd be pretty confused!


You could easily get three different answers. If view head on, it's a circle. From an angle, it's an ellipse. Viewed edge on, it's a line segment.

Perspective matters.


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## batsociety (Jan 23, 2015)

Vega said:


> See, I would classify that as "casually dating". May or may not include sex (yet). For a moment, let's say it DOES include sex.
> 
> But if it includes sex, the person I'm doing this with may see what you've described as FWB.
> 
> Seems like the only labels that are allowed these days are reserved for "fiancé" or "husband/wife".


Well again, it completely depends on the person. Someone might have this attitude and consider themselves to be in a serious relationship. Someone might have this attitude and think of it as nothing more than FWB. No two people are alike, no two relationships are alike. Sexuality and relationships are consistently very complicated; you can't put a label on everything. 

But my point was that from my experience (or, not my personal experience, but from talking to friends etc), this is how folks in general define a relationship that is not serious. If you really want to know what a specific person is thinking, you have to ask, you can't make assumptions.


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## JustTired (Jan 22, 2012)

Vega said:


> But if he isn't looking for a relationship, then why is he behaving relationship-y? THAT'S what I've been trying to figure out! :scratchhead:


IMO, I think the reason why a guy is acting "relationshipy" but not claiming the woman he is acting that way with as his official girlfriend is because the woman is allowing it. When I was dating, I came across a few dudes who would say they aren't looking for a relationship but still wanted to take me out & have sex. I believed them when they told me they weren't looking for a relationship, so I didn't do "relationshipy" things with them. Once the dude figured out that he wasn't going to get sex from me by simply acting like he is in a relationship - they either moved on or took me more seriously.

I say...don't do "relationshipy" things with someone if they don't want to be in a relationship. When I put that into practice in my dating days, it became very easy to weed out guys.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Vega said:


> What defines a "girlfriend"?


To me, you're not The Girlfriend until you have The Talk.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Vega said:


> Good morning, everyone,
> 
> This question is mostly directed to the men, but I'd like to hear the experiences from women as well.
> 
> ...


Just want to say, I have said this to men before. Why? Because I didn't want a commitment. I wasn't ready for a relationship and wasn't seeking one and didn't want one. So it does go both ways.

Irony of irony, this seems to turn some suitors on even more to the chase and some push harder to win you over to be their GIRLFRIEND. 

Moral of the story: People want what they can't have.

Vega, your thread title posts the "non relationship" as a "mystery" but it's really not. It just comes down to the fact that someone doesn't want to lock it down. My colleague is always telling me, "Listen to what people AREN'T saying - that will tell you everything." Spot on. So if you're dealing with a dude now who you WANT a commitment from but he's not calling you his girlfriend/significant other/planning for a future with you and that is what you want, then either accept the non-relationship as is or know that it's time to cut him loose.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Vega said:


> But if he isn't looking for a relationship, then why is he behaving relationship-y? THAT'S what I've been trying to figure out! :scratchhead:


He's behaving in ways that provide things he values. He's getting sex and apparently companionship. Might seem "relationshipy" to you, might seem like a handy, regular sex partner and companion to him. Guys generally like peace and piece. There is less drama , disease and gunfire involved with a reliable sexual partner. Best of both worlds for a guy not interested in marriage. He doesn't need more motivation than that.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

unbelievable said:


> Guys generally like peace and piece.


:rofl: Love this.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Maybe he just simply wants it to go to the next level by doing these things


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

What you described sounds like the benefits, without the expectations, of a relationship. It's a win for him. Whether it's a win for you is the question.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Vega said:


> Good morning, everyone,
> 
> This question is mostly directed to the men, but I'd like to hear the experiences from women as well.
> 
> ...


It's the easiest way for a guy to get sex from a woman with also having an escape hatch.

He gets to have all of the positives of a long term relationship without the responsibilities.

IF a man is doing this to you....DROP HIM!! You're getting played.

Now he MAY change his tune when you drop him...suddenly he may want to commit...you can then move forward...but be a little more wary than the guy who ACTUALLY wants to commit to you from the get-go.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Thank you all for your responses so far. 

And...I'm still CONFUSED, lol


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Wanna get unconfused? 

What do you want? Are you getting that? What is the best way for you to get that safely? If you are getting what you want, will it matter what it's called?

Sounds to me like the typical modern experience. It's what has happened to marriage and relationships because of changes in laws and society. I've seen this in other relationships. It's growing rapidly. 

Figure out what you want. Look for someone who will be compatible and work with you toward the same goals. When you don't find that in someone, don't associate with that person except on a friendly acquaintance basis, and find someone else. Don't worry about the labels, but look toward actions preceded by words.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Jellybeans said:


> To me, you're not The Girlfriend until you have The Talk.


Yep. One thing I have learned since being back in the dating pool is unless you talk about it your assumptions are likely to be way off.

Communicate communicate communicate and then Clarify just to make sure.

As far as how building a relationship goes everyone defines thier timelines differently. I know to me dating exclusively with a woman and calling her my GF are two very different stages and expectations.


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## Angelou (Oct 21, 2014)

What defines a "girlfriend"? 

-A gf is you are monogamous with her. 

What defines a "serious" relationship?

-Living together, met their friends/family, have talked about the future. 

The difference between FWB&GF is pretty obvious. One you don't care about, the other you do.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Angelou said:


> What defines a "girlfriend"?
> 
> -A gf is you are monogamous with her.
> 
> ...


It's different for everyone. To me, girlfriend doesn't mean exclusive and monogamous, unless defined and understood that way by both. Wolf has it right. communication with verification is the key, and knowing what you want and going after it.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Vega said:


> Good morning, everyone,
> 
> This question is mostly directed to the men, but I'd like to hear the experiences from women as well.
> 
> ...


I get the concept of saying I'm not looking for a (serious) relationship. I'm sure I would have told my wife that in the very beginning. But honestly being sexually exclusive and being a girlfriend seem like one in the same. Anything else seems suspiciously noncommital. One thing I know for a fact is a girlfriend is acknowledged as a girlfriend. Sure actions matter but acknowlegment is an action too. Same goes for being in a serious relationship. Acknowledgement matters.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Thundarr said:


> I get the concept of saying I'm not looking for a (serious) relationship. I'm sure I would have told my wife that in the very beginning. But honestly being sexually exclusive and being a girlfriend seem like one in the same. *Anything else seems suspiciously noncommital. *One thing I know for a fact is a girlfriend is acknowledged as a girlfriend. Sure actions matter but acknowlegment is an action too. Same goes for being in a serious relationship. Acknowledgement matters.


Depends on how you define it. I meet most dates and my relationship from online dating. So when I am ready to be exclusive that means that I want us to only date one another and take our profiles down. That talk can and has happened as early as date three.

We are not in a relationship. Not even close. All I am asking is that we give each other a shot to see if it can build to something more. My hope is that we will build on this and develop a relationship. If after a few more dates things aren't going well then no biggie profiles go back up and we move on.

It can be 3-6 months down the road from just being exclusive before I have a talk about are we in a relationship. AT that point I am switching from wanting to get to know this person to are we a possible serious relationship. Is this moving toward something...maybe looking at if even marriage would be a potential. Most Importantly are we on th same page 

It's at this point I go out of my way to introduce her to all my friends and family. Most importantly introduce her to my kids. I then.....as my one buddy says " then you make it Facebook offical" lol and I would refer to her as my GF

This is the system that always works best for me. I wouldn't define someone I am seeing or even sleeping with exclusively as a GF if I didn't see a long term future with her. Relationship titles are for relationships


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Yes, it does matter. If I showed a picture of a circle to 10 different people and asked them what it was--and got 10 different answers--I'd be pretty confused![/QUOTE]

You aren't in a relationship with 10 people. You have something going on with one guy and either what you have works for you or it doesn't. He says he isn't interested in a LTR. He hasn't taken any action to make you believe his statement was untruthful.


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## Zouz (May 28, 2014)

The first thing that comes to my mind after agreeing with so many opinions about it in this thread that :

-If a women wants a marriage from a specific relationship , and the guy is not serious about it ; she is an escort , girl friend , friend , call it anything ;she is just a sex object .

On the other hand , if the same girl if happy with that relationship , knowing that he is not heading to a ring ; then the same guy will not be an jerk; and the relation is a healthy one for me .

How old are you , what you really want , and how much expectation you have from this relationship (those that are net yet achieved); are things that will shape your whole future .

I just want to mention that in many societies it could happen the other way around too but in a diferent context :

The guy is sincere , he is looking for a good wife ; he get her everything she likes ; he doesn't even get sex and knows it ;he spoil her ; then she would dump him because she discovered that his source of benefits is not a permanent one ( she got even a Car from him) ; like what happened to my friend ; or what happened to me :

She looked wow during friendship , engagement , etc... ; after marriage I discovered another person ....


how old are you ?

Why do you need to get married ? really?
-to live a great life ? or have a secured l?

which one ?


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Thank you for your posts so far. 

I can see that much of this hinges on communication, because there are so many differences of opinion.

Let me rephrase that...

It has to do with *HONEST* communication. That's what I believe is lacking in so many of these "relationships". 

It's one thing to say up front that you don't want a "relationship" or a "serious" relationship. But define "relationship" and define "serious". It's obvious that the definition seems to vary from person to person, let alone from gender to gender. 

A man can say, "I don't want anything serious", but just WHAT does he mean by that? He can have sex with a woman, cuddle with her, meet her friends and family, hold hands with her in public,lend her/give her money, stay at the hospital with her, and even have a child with her. 

But to say that after doing ALL of that, that he doesn't want anything "serious" or that he's not in a "relationship" with her is just...messed up. 

I guess I'm confused about what having a "relationship" means as what a "serious relationship" means. 

Just trying to get on the same page as others...

ETA: As far as "labels" are concerned, I think we NEED labels. How else do we describe what "friend" is or what a "lover" is, and how do we separate the two? Yes, I know that a 'friend' can be a 'lover' as well, but in all honesty, I would hardly call someone who uses me for sex as a "friend" or a "lover".


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## Rebooted (Feb 22, 2015)

If you are trying to figure this out you must head over to the website Baggage Reclaim Baggage Reclaim by Natalie Lue 

I am several years post-divorce and after trying to work out something similar myself I purchased one of Natalie's books (Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl) and I can't recommend this book (and the website) highly enough. It has definitely given me some 'aha' moments and is great for understanding self-esteem issues and setting boundaries.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Dad&Hubby said:


> It's the easiest way for a guy to get sex from a woman with also having an escape hatch.
> 
> He gets to have all of the positives of a long term relationship without the responsibilities.
> 
> ...


This pretty much sums up the first year of my relationship with my husband.

Let's see, all the signs that he was my boyfriend:
1. He put on FB that he was in a relationship.
2. He came to the hospital with me a couple of times just after I was diagnosed with cancer; I should point out he had the kind of job in which he could decide when he wakes up whether he will work from home or not...... so that wasn't that big of a sacrifice.
3. He told his parents about me. We were in London and his parents are in the US.
4. He wanted me to spend half the week at his place. (so yes sex was involved.)

All the negatives that made me doubt him:
1. Even after I stopped working (I was on contract so no safety net there), he hassled me to pay for stuff. He couldn't even be bothered to keep coffee in house despite the fact I regularly drink it.
2. He told me about his "just a friend" ex, his only friend in London he once called her. I noticed that whenever he went to a concert without me, she would "like" it on FB. Then he tried to switch it up by mentioning several concerts in one entry, including one we went to together. She still "liked" it. So, I later found out, he went to a concert with her and never mentioned it on FB.
3. He would find reason to criticize me that I just simply didn't agree with. Whenever I called him on it, he would say "I was just joking." Hookay........
4. He told me that he was going to a heavy metal festival with a "friend" but never identified that friend to me. Turns out it was with a guy he went to school with. Si why couldn't he tell me who the "friend" was in the initial conversation. Fast forward a month, I did see an e-mail in which he gave his just a friend ex all the details of festival. Knowing that she liked music festivals and heavy metal music; had the money and was keen to travel around Europe before her contract ended and would have to go back to the US, I felt that e-mail was an invite enough to her. In the same e-mail exchange, she very directly asked him to accompany her to a music festival as well .... on the days that her boyfriend wasnot going. His answer: "maybe."

So that was enough to do some major snooping because anytime I brought her up, he would shut it down "she's just a friend, ok?"

With hardcopy info to hand, I was able to say, if this is the way you treat women "friends", then I want to be just a friend, too so I go off and f^ck other men the way your only friend in London has it.

And so he dumped her and started talking marriage with me...... that talk will be 4 years ago in May this year.

Vega, as Jellybeans, says, you got to have that talk with him and be ready to walk if he can't give you what you need / want / should have.

I decided a couple of things before I had that talk with my (future) husband:
1. I was giving up a lot not being able to date other men.
2. And giving up a lot of my time being with him.
3. and giving up a lot of my money. I might as well go out with my friends if I was expected to pay.... and the better to find other men to date.
4. I went to a couple of meetup activities without and noticed that men were hitting on me. 

So by the time I brought up the talk, I was confident that if I didn't get what I wanted, I could easily flutter away. Ironically, although his 20 something just a friend ex kept chiding him a my age, I was 51 by then, he said that he noticed men checking me out when we went to meetup activities and he knew that when they approached me, their hope was to hit on me. So he knew I had options..... despite my advanced age.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

So Vega, you don't mention how old you are.

*Are you both 20 somethings?* Because both men and women do this "I'm not looking for anything serious" routine fairly often. ..... then still try to claim boyfriend of girlfriend privileges.

Women expecting their expenses to be paid for; the safety (re transportation catered for) and so on. While men are pretty much looking for sexual exclusivity while they decide what they're going to do next.

So I guess for a moment I was at the wrong end of a chain. the just a friend ex doing that to my (future) husband who then in turn treated me like that.

At the same time, age doesn't always determine behavior as my husband was in his 40s as this was unfolding.

*Do you find your (non) boyfriend criticizing you for things that you don't agree with? * For example, after staying so often at his place, I cleaned up his bathroom. I have the feeling that may have been the first time since he had moved in, it took a lot scrubbing. And what did I get for that? A phone call that evening telling me that "I had not cleaned up his bathroom enough." My immediate response was FU, it's in better condition than when I started. I was also thinking, that just a friend ex is never coming over here to do a better job than that, buddy.

Does your non-relationship boyfriend have a few female friends that he hobnobs with, whether regularly or not? He maybe holding out for one of them.

As you can see, I like examining this kind of relationship conundrum since I was part of that triangle once.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Vega said:


> It's one thing to say up front that you don't want a "relationship" or a "serious" relationship. But define "relationship" and define "serious". It's obvious that the definition seems to vary from person to person, let alone from gender to gender.
> 
> A man can say, "I don't want anything serious", but just WHAT does he mean by that? He can have sex with a woman, cuddle with her, meet her friends and family, hold hands with her in public,lend her/give her money, stay at the hospital with her, and even have a child with her.
> 
> But to say that after doing ALL of that, that he doesn't want anything "serious" or that he's not in a "relationship" with her is just...messed up.


It's difficult to see intention and potential for a while because people drive at different relationship speed limits. When it seems like actions and words are sending mixed signals then it's time to ask questions and evaluate if the road you're on can ever get to the destination you're looking for. Let's face it, there are a lot of dead end roads out there just killing time.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

NextTimeAround said:


> So Vega, you don't mention how old you are.
> 
> *Are you both 20 somethings?* Because both men and women do this "I'm not looking for anything serious" routine fairly often. ..... then still try to claim boyfriend of girlfriend privileges.


No, we're not 20-somethings. Let's say that we are both "over 40". 

I have been married and divorced several times, and so has he. I was in several LTR's, but I can tell you that I NEVER had this experience before...which is what prompted me to start researching it and presenting myself to TAM. 

[


> B]Do you find your (non) boyfriend criticizing you for things that you don't agree with? [/B] For example, after staying so often at his place, I cleaned up his bathroom. I have the feeling that may have been the first time since he had moved in, it took a lot scrubbing. And what did I get for that? A phone call that evening telling me that "I had not cleaned up his bathroom enough." My immediate response was FU, it's in better condition than when I started. I was also thinking, that just a friend ex is never coming over here to do a better job than that, buddy.


Our non-relationship didn't progress to the point of me cleaning his apartment or even cooking for him. In fact, there was no criticism. 



> Does your non-relationship boyfriend have a few female friends that he hobnobs with, whether regularly or not? He maybe holding out for one of them.


He doesn't have a whole lot of friends, male OR female. What friends he hangs around with seem to be on FB. He DOES hang out with his room mate occasionally, but he works two jobs, so he really doesn't have time for much else.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Zouz said:


> -If a women wants a marriage from a specific relationship , and the guy is not serious about it ; she is an escort , girl friend , friend , call it anything ;she is just a sex object .


Unfortunately, a woman can be a sex object even if she's married. Relationship status has no bearing on whether or not a woman is treated with respect. Conversely, a woman can also be treated with respect, and not just viewed as a sex object, even if she's a girlfriend, friend, etc. 



> On the other hand , if the same girl if happy with that relationship , knowing that he is not heading to a ring ; then the same guy will not be an jerk; and the relation is a healthy one for me .


Exactly!


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