# Trust... Is it the little things?



## TomKnight67 (Sep 6, 2020)

Hi everyone,

Just googled a place to talk about things and this was the first site to pop up so I thought I would give this a go to see if it will help.

Me and my wife have been married for 4 years (almost exactly) and have been together for 8 years. Back in 2014 we had a little incident... or at least I think we did, which by the looks of things I'm not able to let go. Maybe I'm too stubborn or just being an idiot.

I'm not normally the jealous or suspicious type but at the time (we'd been together a couple of years) my girlfriend (now wife) was downstairs making a cup of tea or something and I noticed a message come up on her phone. It was right in front of my face and caught my eye because of the number of kisses on the end, about 6 I'm guessing as I only glanced at it. It was also from someone I hadn't heard of before. We'll call him Dave. When my wife returned a few minutes later she read her message and we carried on with the evening. After a few hours of it mulling round my head I decided to as "Who's Dave?". She said she didn't know who I was talking about, unaware that I'd seen the message on her screen. I told her at the end of the conversation that I'd seen a message come up. She denied this and said I could check her WhatsApp and low and behold the message had been deleted. 

A few hours of heated discussion followed and we got to the following conclusions:

This was someone who she'd know for over 10 years. They were very good friends and had tried dating for a few months about a year before we got together but it didn't work out for whatever reason.​
She had deleted the messages out of panic and realised that she had handled the situation badly.​
At the time I felt confused more than anything. To this day I still don't know if anything actually happened between them because there were no messages left to read, they'd all been deleted. She called this guy up and asked him to send screenshots of the messages (which he did), but in the back of my mind I know you can erase individual messages in WhatsApp so I've never been convinced that I've got all the information.

By the end of a few days I (rightly or wrongly) said, make a choice between him or me because this is too hard for me to try to deal with if you still want this guy in your life. At that point they'd (apparently) not seen each other for a long time - although we were at a wedding with him and I briefly remember being introduced to him (but not as the ex boyfriend).

Any way - it was a mess in my head, she deleted him from social media and to my knowledge basically told him that she couldn't speak to him anymore. Most likely blaming me - which is fine to be honest.

Fast forward 6 years to a few weeks ago. We've recently started a little side business together which has meant that I've had to start using instagram to help promote our business. I noticed that this same guy had started a record company which was following my now wife and she was following back. This record company is owned and ran by this guy! 

I confronted her about this and she simply said that "she didn't think" and unfollowed this guy again... He's like a bad smell. I can't seem to comprehend that she didn't think I'd get mad at this. I don't understand why she keeps letting him back into her life. But mostly, I need to get over this for the sake of our marriage but it's just making me miserable. 

Am I being a crazy, jealous, insecure idiot here and should I just man up?


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## EveningThoughts (Jul 12, 2018)

Some people have opposite sex friends, whilst married.

Other marriages don't allow this, or believe it's even possible to have such a friendship without it turning sexual.

Seems this friendship existed way before you met, and has already been proven not to work as anything other than a friendship.

A similar thing happened to my friend, an ex that she dated for awhile, didn't work out as a relationship but did work as a good friendship. He would occasionally text for a catch up and there would be kisses on the message.
I advised her to delete those messages, as her new and current partner would not be the kind who could deal with an ex keeping contact occasionally. 

So, the question is, why do you think this is anything more than an old friend? Is it that you don't agree with friendships of the opposite sex?


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

EveningThoughts said:


> So, the question is, why do you think this is anything more than an old friend? Is it that you don't agree with friendships of the opposite sex?


Yeah sure, an "old friend" that she used to bang. Who knows what her naughty bits look and feel like.
It's not simply about "friendships of the opposite sex".

I am of the mind that, in respecting one's present relationship, one should not keep old lovers around as friends.

A slippery slope indeed.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

Definitely not jealous. Totally normal reaction in my opinion. I wouldn't be happy about it in your position. She's not being completely honest with you either. What does she say regarding why she continues to keep in touch? I'm sure she downplays it.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

After what happened the first time she did this and hid it, it does seem odd that she would have forgotton that and was in contact with him again, but we cant know if anything more did happen or not.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Well, who wants to be married to someone who is a known liar and doesn't 'think'? It's the disrespect that's gnawing at you. She can't claim she didn't know it would upset you because she did know.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

What has your wife done over the last 6 years to prove that she is trustworthy?

It is entirely possible that she wasn't thinking when she followed him. People DO make mistakes. Is this a stupid one? Yeah, but still, she's human. Humans make mistakes, and she corrected it when it was pointed out to her. If that is her only mistake or slip up in 6 years, then I'd talk it out and let it go (depending on her behavior over the last 6 years). 

"[She] told him that she couldn't speak to him anymore. Most likely blaming me - which is fine to be honest."

Actually no, that's not fine. She needs to make it damn clear that SHE doesn't want anything to do with him anymore, not that her husband is a mean, controlling, jealous man who won't let her have male friends.


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## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

TomKnight67 said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Just googled a place to talk about things and this was the first site to pop up so I thought I would give this a go to see if it will help.
> 
> ...


Bottom line.....her lying and hiding things is the root of ALL of this.
If she didn't lie and hide things from you this iisue wouldn't exist.
Do not ignore lying and take the blame for lack of trust.
People do not trust those that lie.


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## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

EveningThoughts said:


> Some people have opposite sex friends, whilst married.
> 
> Other marriages don't allow this, or believe it's even possible to have such a friendship without it turning sexual.
> 
> ...


You glossed right over the lying, hiding and and secretiveness.
You ignored the most important part. Amazing.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@TomKnight67 Trust, but verify.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Do you enjoy being with someone who lies to you, disrespects you and plays games with your marriage?

This wing nut wouldn't have made it a month with me so maybe I'm bad to ask.

Maybe your tolerance for stupid and faithless behavior is a lot higher than mine.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Bud she didn’t just forget what happened before and start following him. Obviously there’s something there. Sounds like you dont really know if contact even stopped.


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

IMO, if you don't have a history of being jealous, then your request regarding the X is reasonable.

Why? because experience shows X's are relatively high risk. Every spouse has a right to feel safe from infidelity and his presence makes your uncomfortable for good reason.

Plus your peace of mind should be your wife's priority and she should willingly (without resentment) stop all contact. The fact that she didn't is in itself a red flag.

Plus, there's a lot of people in the world for your wife to 'connect' with. She is not limited to her X. The fact that she didn't is evidence that he's special to her in some way.

Plus, this is the second time your wife has disrespected you regarding the X. People with nothing to hide - hide nothing.

Your wife didn't forget ...she ignored you and hoped you wouldn't find out.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

People don’t lie and hide old friends IMO. Yes, even if it is one of the opposite sex. To deny it to your face and delete the messages was terrible, it leads to problems like this one now. Sorry, nope, the follow wasn’t an accident at all IMO.

We like to say “trust your gut.” There is a reason this is bothering you. As Matt said, “Trust, but verify.”


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

It's not up to you to prove their relationship is inappropriate. It's up to your wife to prove it's not.
She has an obligation to avoid what she knows you see as suspicious circumstances and clearly she failed with the X.

What do you know about the OM?
Find out if he's married. His wife or girlfriend is your best ally.

Finally, as long as your wife believes she can stay in contact with her X with no consequences (that you'll suck it up) then she'll keep playing games. Her behavior is disrespectful and shows a lack of empathy for your feelings. 

You should be prepared to very firmly inform her that any contact (social media, text, whatever) with the X is intolerable and you will divorce her rather than continue to look over your shoulder (bluff if you have to). If she has any unavoidable contact with the X she should immediately tell you about it.

Short of filing for divorce you can send a strong message by: scheduling a visit with an attorney to find out how divorce would impact you (the initial consultation is often free); and separate bank accounts.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

To me it doesn't really matter if anything happened or not from the perspective of basic respect. This is a boundary issue and if you were really priority one this guy would be gone.

This tells me you aren't. Hell, I've been seeing my guy for 21 months and what bothers him is always something I think about, and it was with my ex as well who I was with for 13 years (though what bothered me wasn't his priority but i digress). I'm in agreement that a boundary needs to be drawn here by visiting a lawyer. 
Send her a message that while you can't dictate who her friends are you can decide what you're willing to stay married to.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Trust is earned. The problem here is, your wife has shown you that she cannot be trusted. Here are some examples of what I mean. 

She has exes sending her flirty messages. 
She deletes messages she does not want you to see.
When confronted she has shown she will lie to you. She only came clean when you said you saw the messages from Dave.
Your wife said she would delete Dave from social media, but lo and behold, there he is on her IG. She says this is a mistake but we know she is dishonest.

What we have learned is basically that your wife is dishonest and secretly keeps former flames in her life. If I was you, I would either do some serious investigating myself or if the funds are available, hire a PI to watch your wife for a while, and find out if she is up to anything other than flirty chat messages. You can't really just come out and ask her because again, she has proven herself to be dishonest. 

Does she have any other social media accounts? TikTok? Snap? Anything? When I caught my now ex cheating on me, she kept her other guys on Snap and since I didn't have a Snap account, I had no idea how many dudes she was banging on the side.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

How long have they been friends on Instagram? Has she ever really being out of contact with this guy or did she hide it like she did the WhatsApp messages.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Trust, you ask. Is trust the little things? 
"Thoughts are things, and words have wings." -pearson
Very simply, Trust is the "stuff" that relationships are made of.
Some people are of the opinion that trust can be commanded. They are wrong, trust must me made.
She commands: "You need to not look, just trust." 
I'm doing that. I know that if I go to certain places at certain times I will see my partner doing things that will hurt me. So I don't go.
BUT, that does not mean that I trust her. It means I don't want to be hurt. Not being hurt is not a relationship.
It is avoiding the pain of the lost relationship.
Your partner thinks that by erasing the evidence of her disloyalty, she has created trust.
But you have no trust. You were willing like me to ignore the evidence you have. But the trust she demanded was never made.
She could have made trust. It would have been the most wonderful reconciliation gift if she had made trust for you.
Trust is made of promises made and kept.
But she couldn't do that. She was willing to make promises, but she was unable to keep them. And the trust died unborn.
I guess you have it better than me you get broken promises, I get no promises.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

I'm always amazed at how many red flags one will continually ignore.

She LIED to you once and covered up her "friendship," then LIED about cutting contact with him. When you catch her again, she LIES and tells you "I didn't think about it" when you asked why she was connected to him ... again.

People should be able to be friends with the opposite sex but that's not the issue here. This has been *NOTHING *but lies and sneaking and deceit and coverup and for some sad reason, you just keep eating the **** sandwich she continually serves up to you.

And if you think these two haven't been in contact REGULARLY for the last 6 years, I have some great oceanfront property in Kansas I'd like to sell you.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Your W has lied about this years ago and then continues to disrespect your boundary. Hiding things from ones spouse is a road best left alone. Your W has taken the road TWICE! Why can't people with xbf or xgf make them an X! Your W needs to come to grips on your simple/not unreasonable boundary with an old "friend". Let's face it, he is an old boyfriend. Advise you W the same thing. You are chatting with an old female friend that you dated a few times. When you W asks to see the text let her know the text are deleted. See how it sits with your W.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

TomKnight67 said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Just googled a place to talk about things and this was the first site to pop up so I thought I would give this a go to see if it will help.
> 
> ...


Look, since you were kind of weak when it happened, it is really hard to say that she is cheating, was cheating... 

Oh, and BTW, she was cheating. You rug swept it and this is what you have now. 

You have been married 4 years, and she was already talking to an ex BF, really??? You think this is normal. 

Your only choice is to have her take a poly graph, and she will say no and you will have your answer. 

NO, you are not crazy, just weak and uninformed about infidelity. 

If you don't have kids, I would bolt like yesterday...


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

BluesPower said:


> Look, since you were kind of weak when it happened, it is really hard to say that she is cheating, was cheating...
> 
> Oh, and BTW, she was cheating. You rug swept it and this is what you have now.
> 
> ...


I don't think it even matters at this point whether she's cheating or not. As you know ny ex had extremely poor boundaries and that is terrible to live with whether there's cheating or not. And poor boundaries will likely lead to it at some point, so even if she's not currently it's not a good risk.

As one who put up with this for 13 years I'd advise to just be done with this now. Whether she's cheating or not who cares? This kind of disrespect is a no go for marriag IMO.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

lifeistooshort said:


> I don't think it even matters at this point whether she's cheating or not. As you know ny ex had extremely poor boundaries and that is terrible to live with whether there's cheating or not. And poor boundaries will likely lead to it at some point, so even if she's not currently it's not a good risk.
> 
> As one who put up with this for 13 years I'd advise to just be done with this now. Whether she's cheating or not who cares? This kind of disrespect is a no go for marriag IMO.


I agree, with what you are saying. I think he already blew is so it may not matter. 

I can't really say she is cheating now, but I Def think she did in the past. 

Like I said, if not kids get out, and get out now. And if they have kids, I might do a poly to see if she is still cheating and to verify the cheating before. 

On the other hand, even with kids I don't think I would stay, who wants to live like this...


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

BluesPower said:


> I agree, with what you are saying. I think he already blew is so it may not matter.
> 
> I can't really say she is cheating now, but I Def think she did in the past.
> 
> ...


You're probably right, I just think that people often get hung up on the cheating when there's blatant disrespect going on. They set cheating as the goalpost to warrant leaving and i feel like this is happening here.

I remember in the early days after I found out about ny ex's ex gf a good friend of mine said that the cheating wasn't the main issue in her eyes.

Though it clearly was an issue the bigger issue was his failure to prioritize me over his image management and his other poor treatment of me. She was right.

4 years in and she's sniffing around exes? Cut your losses and get rid of her.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

lifeistooshort said:


> You're probably right, I just think that people often get hung up on the cheating when there's blatant disrespect going on. They set cheating as the goalpost to warrant leaving and i feel like this is happening here.
> 
> I remember in the early days after I found out about ny ex's ex gf a good friend of mine said that the cheating wasn't the main issue in her eyes.
> 
> ...


I think we agree, but I will say this. The reason cheating should be important, is that... after that it does not matter.

You can leave with a clean conscious. I don't feel the need for that these days, but I think I may have years ago. 

I just think staying in these types of situations is just stupid, I believe I was stupid, and chose never to, hopefully, be that stupid again...


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Some people just can't let go of people. It's very hard for them (I don't get it, but it's true). At the time of the incident, you were not married, but sounds like you were in a serious relationship. You had the chance to not marry her, but you did. So at that time, you felt she was trustworthy enough to marry, but now you are upset, 4 years later.

No opinions - just facts. Now the opinions start.

The trigger seems to be this instagram thing. 

My guess? Your W is like a lot of people who are curious about their exes, old friends, etc. and they search social media for them to see what they are doing. She found this somehow and felt because it's a business and not him personally, it was a harmless follow. He followed back, because well, he's a guy.

It's probably nothing serious - but there does seem to be a little torch flame still brewing there. By keeping him at arms length, it's probably not going to develop into much. 

HOWEVER, your wife seems to have the ability to be deceptive. It's a character flaw, and that's a deeper problem. You may want to go to couples therapy a few times just to iron that part out.


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