# I want to save this, but I don’t at the same time



## emptyandoverit (Apr 14, 2021)

I'll try to keep this short, hopefully I'm in the right spot and asking the right thing. I'll be 30 next month, married 8 years in June with a total of 11 years together and we have one 7 year old together. 

My entire relationship had been pretty beautiful up until about year 3 of marriage. We started young, obviously still trying to figure out who we are as adults and God knows people change. The stress really started when I joined the Active military in 2013. The military weighs heavy on families for many reasons, but we never had issues with being apart. Living together, in Germany, took us away from outlets commonly used to help push through marital issues. Those outlets being family. I think that hurt us quite a bit, it was hard to be on the same page all of the time. I would commonly come home frustrated because she had done nothing in the house.

This had been and really still is a huge problem I have with her. She doesn't cook, clean, pay bills, track our budget, handle our child's medical appointments, school meetings or registrations, grocery shop etc. When she WANTED to go to college again I had to apply to the school for her, request her transcripts to be sent over, fill out her FAFSA paperwork...literally everything. She really only takes care of the occasional mopping and dishes and it doesn't go beyond that. She is, however, a pretty great mom to our child.

It frustrates me though to be the one to make the menu, grocery shop. cook the food, fix the dishwasher and then also do the dishes before the grass needs cut. I feel like I take care of both roles in our relationship and it's really always been that way but it's something I knew about her going into the relationship so I have a hard time faulting her for it. She tells me that the amount of things I do makes her feel pressure to do more, but I'm not doing anything that doesn't NEED done in a family, or life in general.

Now let's get to the part that really messes with me. In 2017 we had made a plan to send her home from Germany about 5 months ahead of me so she could purchase our stateside home, get a job and get my daughter in school while I finished my military contract. This was the end of the Army and the next chapter in our life was starting, we were both so excited. Within a month or two she had gotten a job and finalized on our home.

SHORTLY after I noticed our conversations were getting shorter and shorter and then a couple of days in between conversations, it felt off to say the least. On my birthday I had gotten a happy birthday text which felt like it came from a distant friend. The next day I had asked her what was going on between us and she instantly went for the divorce text. She said that she didn't know if it was too much time apart or what but she didn't love me and couldn't stay married to me. She told me I could have the house, the property, the money and would not pursue child support. She said she didn't want to hurt me anymore than she had. I was confused my that and called my mom who said that their was someone else involved.

I agreed with that because we had been apart multiple times during my service and this was our last time being away from each other. It didn't add up. As the days went on I was trying more and more to reel her back in. Writing her letters and texts professing my love and asking what had changed. Most of that she ignored. She did make sure to let me know she felt like it was probably because of this one time she heard me and my friends outside talking about our frustrations with our wives.

We didn't say anything we didn't mean, but I get why she was upset about it. But to use that as an excuse two years later? It didn't make sense to me. Well, she had eventually reached out to me stating she needed our medical insurance information because she had to go to the ER for vaginal issues, which she claimed to be possibly yeast infection or UTI. I got the medical records after her visit and noticed she was given both a pregnancy and an STD test. I asked her about it in a text and it was again ignored, the divorce was moving forward and their was nobody else it was just because of me basically.

I started reading self help books and seeing a therapist trying to figure out how and why I am such a piece of garbage. I would also notice other things like hundreds of dollars being spent at Victorias Secret and close to $100 tabs at food spots and bars. When I asked her about the charges she ignored me again so I turned her debit card off. Of course she messaged me then but only to let me know I need to stop acting like I own her.

Finally I had had enough about one month before coming home and I gave in to the divorce. I told her that whatever was going on, she allowed that to get in between our relationship and that she would one day regret that. I told her that I would be civil, but we are not friends and I do not wish to continue speaking to her outside of official divorce business. Shockingly she replied stating she regretted it already. She then spilled the beans, or so I thought. She claimed she went out to a bar with her new boss and that she had gotten drunk and went back to his place and despite saying no to him they still had sex. She said she knew I wouldn't stay with her after that so what had been done was done.

The ER visit was because he gave her an STD. She said it was a one time thing. That was not true. It eventually came out that she carried on the relationship the entire time she was telling me it was my fault we were divorcing and that their was nobody else. She moved him into my new home. Had him around my child, even changing her diapers at the time. It shouldn't matter but she was 23 and he was a 2 time divorcee with 4 children and 38 years old....like...why? Anyways I told her I still wanted to stay with her after that and she said she would quit her job and cutoff this guy off (June 1st and I come home June 30th).

She was hesitant to actually stay together because she said she didn't want me to feel like I could get pay back on her and she didnt want me to be reminding her all the time of the "mistake" she made. We proceeded to stay together anyways after much convincing on my part. Everything I found out after I got home I had to dig for. Turns out she kept seeing this man all the way up until the night before I flew in. I found pictures of her and his family at a theme park the week before I came home. I found love letters in my house between the two of them. I found condoms in the furniture. Some of his things were still at my house when I got there. For some reason I looked past all of that and continued trying to make things work. She NEVER gave me the full truth and I am fully confident in that.

We never sought therapy for it either. In fact, she added fuel to fire when she decided it would be a good idea to compare me to him. Saying things like well he would grab my butt when I'm cooking and I like that. First of all you don't cook, secondly why are you trying to make me feel like I need to be the guy you cheated on me with. She cried and cried and cried and said this was the biggest "mistake" of her life and that she would never do that again no matter what.

A 3 month sexual relationship where you moved him into my new home was a mistake? How? So it's been 4 years since that happened and things have gotten better on the outside, but I never felt healed on the inside. I felt like we just put it in 4 wheel drive and ran past the situation as quickly as we could. I know she doesn't respect my pain. She went to Vegas last year for a bachelorette party and would only text me good morning and then not hear from her the rest of the day. When I questioned her on that she said she thought our relationship was different now and then claimed they pretty much just slept and stayed in the hotel....okay?

We do get along for the most part, but the smallest problems get magnified into all out fights where we are instantly against each other instead of with each other working against a problem. When things are good, they are good but when they are bad they are just that. So here's my question...for the past two or three months I have felt strongly about leaving her. I've spoken in secret to my family about it, sought lawyers, therapy again, and now I'm here.

I feel like if I divorce her now I will be failing her. I feel like she is happy in the marriage and that I would be the jerk to pull the carpet out from under her. I also feel like what if I regret leaving her? Like a be careful what you wish for thing. Where do I go from here? Should I keep trying to work this out with her or just leave? We have talked about counciling before but it never happens.

When we fight I can't get my words across to her she flips everything on me and makes me feel like I'm crazy and causing problems for no reason so I almost feel like talking is gonna be useless unless maybe saying I want a divorce will make her open her ears and eyes but I don't know.


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## Offkilter123 (Dec 2, 2020)

She is toxic and you appear to have extraordinarily low self esteem to not only tolerate her abuse, but beg for more of it. You have NOT failed her; she has failed you at every step of the way. Run, don’t walk away from this creature.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I would let her go. She sounds quite useless. Like a child who never grew up. What she actually needs is to live on her own and have to support herself and take care of everything herself and grow up. But this is who she is, a lazy wife and a cheater. I would definitely think you can do better. And it's great she's not trying to ruin you if you divorce, so take advantage of that.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

You should have left her 4 years ago. 

Rip the bandaid off and find a woman that actually respects and loves you. Any consequences she faces are on her own doing.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

emptyandoverit said:


> I'll try to keep this short, hopefully I'm in the right spot and asking the right thing. I'll be 30 next month, married 8 years in June with a total of 11 years together and we have one 7 year old together.
> My entire relationship had been pretty beautiful up until about year 3 of marriage. We started young, obviously still trying to figure out who we are as adults and God knows people change. The stress really started when I joined the Active military in 2013. The military weighs heavy on families for many reasons, but we never had issues with being apart. Living together, in Germany, took us away from outlets commonly used to help push through marital issues. Those outlets being family. I think that hurt us quite a bit, it was hard to be on the same page all of the time. I would commonly come home frustrated because she had done nothing in the house. This had been and really still is a huge problem I have with her. She doesn't cook, clean, pay bills, track our budget, handle our child's medical appointments, school meetings or registrations, grocery shop etc. When she WANTED to go to college again I had to apply to the school for her, request her transcripts to be sent over, fill out her FAFSA paperwork...literally everything. She really only takes care of the occasional mopping and dishes and it doesn't go beyond that. She is, however, a pretty great mom to our child. It frustrates me though to be the one to make the menu, grocery shop. cook the food, fix the dishwasher and then also do the dishes before the grass needs cut. I feel like I take care of both roles in our relationship and it's really always been that way but it's something I knew about her going into the relationship so I have a hard time faulting her for it. She tells me that the amount of things I do makes her feel pressure to do more, but I'm not doing anything that doesn't NEED done in a family, or life in general.
> 
> 
> ...


Dude read the book "codependency no more". Get some counseling to figure out why you have settled for so little, there is obviously some stuff you need to work on. Something is off that you think this life you have chosen would lead to a peaceful and happy life.

Not trying to be mean but one thing your wrote really struck me about how distorted your thinking is. 



> It shouldn't matter but she was 23 and he was a 2 time divorcee with 4 children and 38 years old....like...why?


It shouldn't matter, it shows how messed up she is?

Look what you are trying to do isn't compatible with a happy life. I mean you can save it but IT (your marriage up until this point) is exactly how the rest of your life is going to go. You can't make her into a faithful emotionally healthy person.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I would let her go. She sounds quite useless. Like a child who never grew up. What she actually needs is to live on her own and have to support herself and take care of everything herself and grow up. But this is who she is, a lazy wife and a cheater. I would definitely think you can do better. And it's great she's not trying to ruin you if you divorce, so take advantage of that.


@emptyandoverit the above, and don't look back. Go for child custody and enjoy moving on with the next chapter in your life.

Thank you for your service. Now take care of your future. Without the x wife.


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## Manner1067 (Feb 22, 2021)

Why in the world would you stay with this woman? Talk about humiliation and gaslighting. 

The second she is on her own for an extended period of time, she has an affair. It was so blatant, it was basically in-your-face. Leaving condoms around the house? Are you kidding me?

Now we could analyze all the reasons she did this, but to what avail? (married too early, she got "bored", felt neglected, or that she "missed out" --whatever). The fact is, she is a liar and a cheater, who will be a bad influence on your kid, and who will likely cheat again (if she isn't right now). 

There is nothing to repair here my man --your marriage ended with this, and you are carrying on because of sunk-cost fallacy, a sense of duty, problems with self-esteem, fear, etc. 

I was talking to a buddy over the weekend who is suffering from cancer. His wife is having an affair because she thinks he can't give her what she wants anymore. The dude was always faithful, made good money, and they have five kids. Doesn't matter: she feels entitled to another guy, a fantasy romance, and happiness at his expense. My buddy tried explaining to me that they had an "agreement" and that he loved her and wanted her to be happy.

I was like "what the fu** is a matter with you"? You are letting your wife parade around with another guy virtually in front of your kids, and let her gaslight you into thinking you should allow her to do this? 

Stop being that guy, and stop being a "nice guy". You don't love this woman anymore, and don't talk yourself into believing you do. Love involves trust and respect, and you have neither. 

time to rip off the bandaid and to get a divorce


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

What the hell is wrong with you ????? Your a complete fool for staying. You act like your the one that has something to fix when she is the one cheating.
Are you just going to let her keep wiping her feet on you like a door mat?
Thank you for your service in the military... my hat is off to you and much respect....but dude GROW A SPINE !!!

...........

Edit : Let’s just review for one second..... She was screwing a man in your own house !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Failing her? Seriously? Is this really how you want to live the rest of your life? When you R with a cheater there’s always a possibility it won’t work. Let go and move on.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

The military taught you to obey and to endure hardships.

I think you over-did-it on this training, with this indoctrination.

She is not your Commander, she is your partner.

Cut loose her lapels, her medals, her epaulets, her brass-ass buttons.

Drum her out of your Corp, you're core principles.

Bust her down to Buck Private, and make her go butt-naked out of your life.

Don't re-up with this traitor, this turn-of-the-silk-slip, turncoat.

The woman hath slept with the enemy.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

And if you stay married to her you are failing yourself....so you have to ask yourself who is more important here you and her...time to move on brother


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Why are you even concerned about what she wants? Was she promiscuous before you married her? If you want to live that way, it's your choice. I couldn't do it.


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## SRCSRC (Nov 28, 2020)

Based on the history you have given, your WW sounds terrible. Divorce and move on. She is disgusting. The aftermath of her affair was never dealt with properly. You should have left her then. Bringing him into your house and seeing him up to the time you came home was disgusting. It is also quite likely she has continued to cheat on you. Take care of yourself and your daughter. Get the heck away from this woman.


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## emptyandoverit (Apr 14, 2021)

All of your responses have brought me to tears. I feel like someone is actually hearing me. You have all clearly read my post and thought of constructive responses and believe me they are helpful in confirming that I need to leave. I only gave you all about 50% of this entire situation and I feel like most of you know 100% of it in knowing who she is and what I need to do next. Thank you to everyone who has responded thus far.


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## emptyandoverit (Apr 14, 2021)

I would let her go. She sounds quite useless. Like a child who never grew up. What she actually needs is to live on her own and have to support herself and take care of everything herself and grow up. But this is who she is, a lazy wife and a cheater. 
-this hit me hard as hell. You’re right!


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## emptyandoverit (Apr 14, 2021)

Lostinthought61 said:


> And if you stay married to her you are failing yourself....so you have to ask yourself who is more important here you and her...time to move on brother


Im going to replay this over and over in my head during this process. Thank you!


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## emptyandoverit (Apr 14, 2021)

Offkilter123 said:


> She is toxic and you appear to have extraordinarily low self esteem to not only tolerate her abuse, but beg for more of it. You have NOT failed her; she has failed you at every step of the way. Run, don’t walk away from this creature.


Reading people’s views from outside the box really makes me feel like a jackass for even being around still. Begging for more, that’s exactly what I’ve been doing. She’s really good at making me seem like I’m the messed up one though and that I need fixed and I commonly get convinced of that. This forum is what’s gonna keep me laser focused on leaving. Thank you!


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## emptyandoverit (Apr 14, 2021)

SunCMars said:


> The military taught you to obey and to endure hardships.
> 
> I think you over-did-it on this training, with this indoctrination.
> 
> ...


Okay so this made me literally laugh out loud. You did a spectacular job in tying together my military life and my marriage and you are absolutely right. I let her become the enemy and have continued to lay my head next to it every night. It’s time to ETS.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Stop being a doormat or you’ll get more of what you’ve gotten.

let her go.


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## emptyandoverit (Apr 14, 2021)

Sfort said:


> Why are you even concerned about what she wants? Was she promiscuous before you married her? If you want to live that way, it's your choice. I couldn't do it.


She was not to my knowledge, puppy love faze we were young and life hadn’t really hit us yet as far as adult responsibilities so it was all love and fun. She was a Christian, straight edge virgin when we met but that was probably a lie to be honest. I’m concerned about what she wants I think because I love her, or had love for her. And I think I grab for what we once had wanting it back but she has changed and the damage is heavy.


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## emptyandoverit (Apr 14, 2021)

Mr.Married said:


> What the hell is wrong with you ????? Your a complete fool for staying. You act like your the one that has something to fix when she is the one cheating.
> Are you just going to let her keep wiping her feet on you like a door mat?
> Thank you for your service in the military... my hat is off to you and much respect....but dude GROW A SPINE !!!
> 
> ...


when it’s said to me by someone outside of the situation, I feel stupid. I am stupid.Change is scary but these forums are helping cement my decision to go. Thanks!


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## emptyandoverit (Apr 14, 2021)

Manner1067 said:


> Why in the world would you stay with this woman? Talk about humiliation and gaslighting.
> 
> The second she is on her own for an extended period of time, she has an affair. It was so blatant, it was basically in-your-face. Leaving condoms around the house? Are you kidding me?
> 
> ...


Thank you for sharing that situation with your friend. That really puts it into perspective for me. You nailed every single reason why I’ve stayed and convinced myself it will get better. I’m on here because I’m at my breaking point and I’m so thankful for everyone who has taken the time to respond to help me out. Y’all don’t even know me but care to share your thoughts, it’s amazing.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

When I read your story my first thought was you’re too squared away to accept this kind of treatment.

You should bounce and find someone worthy of your affection.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

I don’t know how you have lived this way for so long. This sounds like a horribly painful life with a terrible person. She actually told you to be more like her eff buddy... she’s sick in the head. Seriously. 

I’m worried about you that you somehow still think about failing her. Failing HER. She fails at decency, cleanliness, manners, parenting (anyone who leaves used condoms in the furniture with babies running around surely can’t be that great of a mother), loyalty, honesty and really just life. She fails all of it. 

I sure hope you can get some counseling too, because you never should have put up with what this terrible person put you through your whole marriage.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

The norm these days for child custody in the United States is 50/50 custody. You would have the child two and a half weekdays a week and one day on the weekend and so would she. She will be forced to take care of everything herself and that will be the best for her in the long run. She needs to get a grasp.

If you can possibly do it with your job you should take 50/50 custody because they need to be influenced by you at least as much as by her.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

emptyandoverit said:


> when it’s said to me by someone outside of the situation, I feel stupid. I am stupid.Change is scary but these forums are helping cement my decision to go. Thanks!


You need to start thinking correctly. You should not feel stupid. You're a loving, caring person who is trying to do the right thing and hold onto "normal". However, you're dealing with a person who has thrown you in the trash. Man up and don't accept that treatment. Dr. Phil says, "You have to teach people how to treat you." In her case, she wouldn't get a chance, particularly if she comes crawling back. Hope that she doesn't.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Divorcing this woman is going to be the beginning of your healing. She’s not wife material. Why a supposedly FWW would go to Vegas for a bachelorette party and not keep you in the loop throughout is beyond me.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

emptyandoverit said:


> when it’s said to me by someone outside of the situation, I feel stupid. I am stupid.Change is scary but these forums are helping cement my decision to go. Thanks!


Come on man you are in the military, this is the same kind of courage that is needed when you to into combat. It doesn't mean it's not scary and you aren't afraid but use your training, one step forward at at time. Courage is not the absence of fear it's moving forward even though you are afraid. Besides it's not going to be at all as bad as you think, you have been living in an abusive situation for a long time. 

One more time, counseling and this book.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

jsmart said:


> Divorcing this woman is going to be the beginning of your healing. She’s not wife material. Why a supposedly FWW would go to Vegas for a bachelorette party and not keep you in the loop throughout is beyond me.


It’s like she gets off on rubbing his nose in her mess right?


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

emptyandoverit said:


> We have talked about counciling before but it never happens. When we fight I can't get my words across to her she flips everything on me and makes me feel like I'm crazy and causing problems for no reason so I almost feel like talking is gonna be useless unless maybe saying I want a divorce will make her open her ears and eyes but I don't know.


I'm so sorry that you've gone through such crappy times, and are continuing to go through them. Not only has your wife put you through one helluva marriage, but it sounds like she is also a master manipulator and gaslighter. My XH was much the same: flipped everything on me during troubling marital times, and gaslighted me to the point that I felt completely nuts. He also was really, really lazy when it came to contributing to our marriage and life. Guess what? When I asked for a separation, he suddenly talked about all the ways he'd change to be a better husband and contribute to our marriage. Thing is that I'd been asking him to do that for the better part of 4 years, and it never stuck, so I knew his last ditch offer to change was bogus too. It'll also be bogus with your wife, so here's what I'd do: get your ducks in a row, line up a lawyer, organize your financials, take anything out of the home that is yours and that you don't want her to destroy (passport, any important documents, anything else that's important to you). If she's as lazy and clueless as you say, she won't even notice they're missing (my XH didn't either) and then I would present her with divorce papers. Make sure that you protect yourself first though, before taking any sort of divorce action. Does her family/friends know that she cheated on you?


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

emptyandoverit said:


> ... So here's my question...for the past two or three months I have felt strongly about leaving her. I've spoken in secret to my family about it, sought lawyers, therapy again, and now I'm here. I feel like if I divorce her now I will be failing her. I feel like she is happy in the marriage and that I would be the jerk to pull the carpet out from under her. I also feel like what if I regret leaving her? Like a be careful what you wish for thing. Where do I go from here? Should I keep trying to work this out with her or just leave? We have talked about counciling before but it never happens. When we fight I can't get my words across to her she flips everything on me and makes me feel like I'm crazy and causing problems for no reason so I almost feel like talking is gonna be useless unless maybe saying I want a divorce will make her open her ears and eyes but I don't know.


@emptyandoverit, first let me just say that as a wife of a military vet, I am SO UPSET I have difficulty maintaining objectivity, because it always tans my hide when a spouse cheats on someone who's serving in the armed forces. I get it...it's lonely...it's hard to keep that connection...everyone is far apart...there's temptations. But I could rant for an hour! If there was ever a time to rise above and be faithful, how about showing some dedication and fidelity to the ones who are putting their lives on the line to protect US!? UGH! Seriously! 

Okay, I'll take several deep breaths and try to respond with some wisdom. I personally believe that you feel like leaving her because in real life you two have not actually addressed the issues that lead to adultery. And no, I don't mean issues that are your fault--I mean things that are issues within her that need to be 180 degrees different! Instead of facing them and addressing them, essentially you two swept them under the rug and pretended they didn't exist...and yet THEY DO EXIST! These issues can not be ignored! And now you are feeling like leaving her because the very issues that created the environment conducive to adultery are still there! The mindset, the lifestyle...all of it is still there. Nothing changed. 

When she flips things on you, that is a very typical cheater tactic: it's called DARVO. That stands for Deny-Attack-Reverse Victim & Offender. How it works is that if you bring up a legitimate issue--let's say, "I'm concerned that you don't participate in the grocery shopping and cooking"--first she DENIES that she doesn't shop or cook, then she attacks YOU for either something else or making you the bad guy for her non-participation, then SHE becomes the poor victim of your cruelty and YOU become the horrible offender/abuser. You're abusive and controlling when you expect poor innocent her to be an adult and be responsible! 

So now that you know what DARVO is, and now that you know you two have rugswept the affair and not recovered from it, it makes sense that you still feel like you want to leave. Yeah, it's been 4 years since she actually had OM in her bed, but she never healed the marriage after what she did to it! So for 4 years you have been waiting for her to make some kind of move, any kind of move, that indicates that she cares about the damage she did to you and is willing to do what is needed to repair it! You've waited a long time. 

If it were me, I would put down my thoughts on paper to make sure they are organized. I tend to be a writer though, and if you can talk, go for it. Then I set my spouse down and let them know the truth: I wanted this to recover, I put in the effort to understand and forgive what you've done, I've given you time to show me with your actions that you are willing to change and grow in maturity and personal responsibility, and after four years you want to just act like it never happened. Well it DID happen, and I have reached the point where I am the one who is done. 

I'm the kind of person who's very honest and very blunt. I'd put it right out there, have papers served that same day, and the doors to me and my heart would be closed and locked that day. And bear something in mind: you are the FATHER of your child, so accept nothing less than 50% of the time with her. The mom does not automatically get "custody" (lots of mom's assume that), and you are just as much that child's parent as she is...maybe more, because you at least are responsible and make the effort to do daily care such as cleaning the house and cooking dinner. No one "likes" to do that, but some of us soldier on and do it, ya know?


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

emptyandoverit said:


> I feel like if I divorce her now I will be failing her.


Wow. This is a really bad situation and a classic rugsweep. It is impossible to sweep stuff like this under the rug and not have it show up later. It happens in 100% of rugsweeps.

You made the mistake of offering forgiveness before you even new what you were forgiving.

She gave you trickle truth and only admitted what she thought she had to.

There is no way a woman could respect a man who allowed his wife to do these things. In her brain, you are a pushover and a paycheck.

You did all of this because of how much you loved her, but you had built her up in your mind and put her on a pedestal. She was never the person you thought she was and she never will be that person.

You are not failing her by divorcing, you are failing yourself by not divorcing.

You sound like a good guy and nice guy, but you only get one life and she is stealing yours. You need to get tough and stand up for yourself.

Cut ties with her and don't look back. Focus on being a good father. You'll find your equal out there, I'm confident she exists.


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## emptyandoverit (Apr 14, 2021)

Ursula said:


> I'm so sorry that you've gone through such crappy times, and are continuing to go through them. Not only has your wife put you through one helluva marriage, but it sounds like she is also a master manipulator and gaslighter. My XH was much the same: flipped everything on me during troubling marital times, and gaslighted me to the point that I felt completely nuts. He also was really, really lazy when it came to contributing to our marriage and life. Guess what? When I asked for a separation, he suddenly talked about all the ways he'd change to be a better husband and contribute to our marriage. Thing is that I'd been asking him to do that for the better part of 4 years, and it never stuck, so I knew his last ditch offer to change was bogus too. It'll also be bogus with your wife, so here's what I'd do: get your ducks in a row, line up a lawyer, organize your financials, take anything out of the home that is yours and that you don't want her to destroy (passport, any important documents, anything else that's important to you). If she's as lazy and clueless as you say, she won't even notice they're missing (my XH didn't either) and then I would present her with divorce papers. Make sure that you protect yourself first though, before taking any sort of divorce action. Does her family/friends know that she cheated on you?


Thank you for the reply. After reading all of the replies I reached out to an attorney and have an appointment early next week. She more than likely will try to say that she can change or that we can talk about it but what I really expect is for her to 1. blame me for not bringing up how I was feeling and 2. cry and say how it was such a mistake and she wishes she could take it back and that she's such a crappy person blah blah blah (shes done this before) and then I feel guilty for even bringing it up. I didn't even think about getting the documents out of reach, great advice! As far as who knows, that's another thing she just can't tell the truth about. I had asked her who all knew (so I could know who I was and wasn't going to be looking like a clown in front of) and she said her mom had a hunch and said "I know what you're doing with your boss" but said she never told her anything about it. Sounds like a very specific hunch. She also mentioned that when she told her mom about me coming home her mom said "oh you guys are gonna work it out?" and so she said she's "not sure how much she knows." But that was the only person. I like to think that maybe she isn't proud of it and wouldn't want to share that but who knows really.


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## emptyandoverit (Apr 14, 2021)

Affaircare said:


> @emptyandoverit, first let me just say that as a wife of a military vet, I am SO UPSET I have difficulty maintaining objectivity, because it always tans my hide when a spouse cheats on someone who's serving in the armed forces. I get it...it's lonely...it's hard to keep that connection...everyone is far apart...there's temptations. But I could rant for an hour! If there was ever a time to rise above and be faithful, how about showing some dedication and fidelity to the ones who are putting their lives on the line to protect US!? UGH! Seriously!
> 
> Okay, I'll take several deep breaths and try to respond with some wisdom. I personally believe that you feel like leaving her because in real life you two have not actually addressed the issues that lead to adultery. And no, I don't mean issues that are your fault--I mean things that are issues within her that need to be 180 degrees different! Instead of facing them and addressing them, essentially you two swept them under the rug and pretended they didn't exist...and yet THEY DO EXIST! These issues can not be ignored! And now you are feeling like leaving her because the very issues that created the environment conducive to adultery are still there! The mindset, the lifestyle...all of it is still there. Nothing changed.
> 
> ...


I seriously can not thank you enough for this reply. Not only am I going to take your advice, I am more than likely going to use your example almost word for word. It is exactly how I feel. I think it would be a good idea for me to have everything I want to say written down so I don't forget what I want to say and can take the time to choose my words carefully and be fully honest with her and myself. You pretty much summed her up with your DARVO example, I feel like no matter what I say it's going to come back on me somehow. I'll be coming back to read this one a few times, thanks again!


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## emptyandoverit (Apr 14, 2021)

re16 said:


> Wow. This is a really bad situation and a classic rugsweep. It is impossible to sweep stuff like this under the rug and not have it show up later. It happens in 100% of rugsweeps.
> 
> You made the mistake of offering forgiveness before you even new what you were forgiving.
> 
> ...


Everything you said hit home for me, you are absolutely right. I didn't really know what I was forgiving, all I was focused on was getting my wife/family back and it didn't seem to matter what she had done, I just snapped to forgiving instantly. The paycheck thing is spot on, I often feel like we are just room mates. It's like, what's the point of this? I've asked her a couple of times if when she pictures the perfect marriage is this what she imagines and she says yes and then says that makes her feel like I'm saying something isn't perfect (which I guess is a reasonable thought). Anyways that makes me feel guilty like dang I'm the only one who seems to have a problem here and then I feel f'd up. But there is no way on Earth she thinks this is the perfect marriage. All of these replies have helped give me the confidence that I'm not wrong or the bad guy for wanting to leave.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

emptyandoverit said:


> ...She more than likely will try to say that she can change or that we can talk about it but what I really expect is for her to 1. blame me for not bringing up how I was feeling and 2. cry and say how it was such a mistake and she wishes she could take it back and that she's such a crappy person blah blah blah (shes done this before) and then I feel guilty for even bringing it up.


@emptyandoverit, the truth is as long as she draws breath there is the possiblity she could/might change, but the best indicator of whether she will do it or not is the past 4 years. She had every opportunity to demonstrate with her actions that she knew she could not "stay the same" without damaging you, and instead of making any kind of effort, she made the deliberate choice to do nothing. That's because she doesn't really WANT to do anything. When a person really wants it, they find a way! 

If she blames you for not bringing up how you were feeling, just agree with her. Yep, you waited 4 years. Yep, you didn't complain the whole time. Yep, you didn't bring up how you were feeling. But you being quiet for a certain number of years WAS NOT what destroyed the marriage: adultery is what destroyed the marriage. The end. 

If she cries and says it was such a mistake and she wishes she could take it back and she's such a crappy person, just agree with her. Yep, it's sad that she chose to cheat on a soldier. Yep, it was a GIGANTIC, life-altering "mistake." Yep she wishes she didn't have to experience the consequences of her decision to cheat. And yep, people of quality who have morals and self-esteem do not commit adultery--she might wanna work on that. The end. 

WHEN you feel guilty (and you will) just remind yourself that you are no angel. I'm sure that when you came home, it was a tough adjustment from the expectations of military life to the unaccountability of civilian life. BUT that in no way, shape, or form is a justification for adultery. You are just speaking the truth: you're done. It is sad, but there it is. 



> I didn't even think about getting the documents out of reach, great advice!


 Yeah, stick birth certificates, passports, discharge papers, awards, bank statements...any of that stuff that you think of as your "important papers" in a deposit box in the bank. Then even if she does accidentally notice, you can honestly say they are there for safe keeping. 



> As far as who knows, that's another thing she just can't tell the truth about. I had asked her who all knew (so I could know who I was and wasn't going to be looking like a clown in front of) and she said her mom had a hunch and said "I know what you're doing with your boss" but said she never told her anything about it. Sounds like a very specific hunch. She also mentioned that when she told her mom about me coming home her mom said "oh you guys are gonna work it out?" and so she said she's "not sure how much she knows." But that was the only person. I like to think that maybe she isn't proud of it and wouldn't want to share that but who knows really.


1. The fact that you still can't get the truth about this is an indicator of the reason this marriage is ending. Two people can not be intimate when one is hiding and lying. The whole point of marriage is for two people to be who they truly are and have a safe place to grow and mature with the support and acceptance of a loving life partner. So there just is no room for secrecy and hiding and lying in a marriage. None. 

2. The fact she didn't offer to confess and go to people on her own accord and let them know is another indicator of why this marriage is ending. When someone truly repents, they will admit, to themselves and out loud to others, that THEY are responsible! Honestly? They take personal responsibility! The fact her mom "had a hunch" that specific means that it was obvious to others, and a person who wants to recover after infidelity will a) end all contact with everyone who isn't a friend of the marriage (i.e., those who know the two cheaters as a couple) and b) go to parents, siblings, and children and tell them "The reason BS has been acting so odd lately is because I was unfaithful that they were so hurt, they acted out from my behavior. They need your understanding and support, because it was ME that was being awful, not them. Please don't blame them for how I behaved." She not only didn't do that, she won't even tell you the truth about who kept her infidelity a secret and helped her cheat! 

UGH! I better take some more deep breaths. LOL


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## Trident (May 23, 2018)

You feel that you're failing the woman who cheated on you with a guy who gave her an STD by divorcing her?

Damn you are your own worst enemy. If 2 pages worth of "wake the feck up" posts don't do it, see a therapist. 

Should have taken the deal she offered you back then when she was in the throes of the affair, doubtful she'll be so generous now.


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## jparistotle (Jul 10, 2018)

emptyandoverit said:


> Everything you said hit home for me, you are absolutely right. I didn't really know what I was forgiving, all I was focused on was getting my wife/family back and it didn't seem to matter what she had done, I just snapped to forgiving instantly. The paycheck thing is spot on, I often feel like we are just room mates. It's like, what's the point of this? I've asked her a couple of times if when she pictures the perfect marriage is this what she imagines and she says yes and then says that makes her feel like I'm saying something isn't perfect (which I guess is a reasonable thought). Anyways that makes me feel guilty like dang I'm the only one who seems to have a problem here and then I feel f'd up. But there is no way on Earth she thinks this is the perfect marriage. All of these replies have helped give me the confidence that I'm not wrong or the bad guy for wanting to leave.


Sit her down an have the I love you but... speak and lay it all out there. YOU MOVED ANOTHER MAN INOT MY HOUES and I cannot forgive and forget. It is best we break up. "You can always go back to him and his family but i am moving on"


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Yes, she’ll very likely go into survival mode and try to guilt you into staying. It’s worked for her so far. She’s probably going to do whatever she can think of to keep you there. Be prepared.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

emptyandoverit said:


> Reading people’s views from outside the box really makes me feel like a jackass for even being around still. Begging for more, that’s exactly what I’ve been doing. She’s really good at making me seem like I’m the messed up one though and that I need fixed and I commonly get convinced of that. This forum is what’s gonna keep me laser focused on leaving. Thank you!


You are by no means a jackass. This **** is tough to navigate through. You did your best with what you knew at the time. Do not beat yourself up.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Manner1067 said:


> I was talking to a buddy over the weekend who is suffering from cancer. His wife is having an affair because she thinks he can't give her what she wants anymore. The dude was always faithful, made good money, and they have five kids. Doesn't matter: she feels entitled to another guy, a fantasy romance, and happiness at his expense. My buddy tried explaining to me that they had an "agreement" and that he loved her and wanted her to be happy.


What an absolute pos wife. Omg.

OP, mate. You're a soldier. Stand up straight, chest out and walk the hell out of her life. She's gross, you deserve so much better than this, it's just not right.

You WILL get through this, please be sure to heal completely before you embark on another relationship, your future wife shouldn't have to pay for the sins of the one who came before her.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Manner1067 said:


> I was talking to a buddy over the weekend who is suffering from cancer. His wife is having an affair because she thinks he can't give her what she wants anymore. The dude was always faithful, made good money, and they have five kids. Doesn't matter: she feels entitled to another guy, a fantasy romance, and happiness at his expense. My buddy tried explaining to me that they had an "agreement" and that he loved her and wanted her to be happy.


Don't feel bad for your buddy, a guy whose wife cheats on him like that is in that situation precisely because he is the kind of a guy who makes and "agreement" for her to be loved. Dude is right where he wants to be.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

emptyandoverit said:


> 1. blame me for not bringing up how I was feeling
> and
> 2. cry and say how it was such a mistake and she wishes she could take it back and that she's such a crappy person blah blah blah (shes done this before) and then I feel guilty for even bringing it up.


1) Did she bring up how she was feeling before she had an affair, got a disease, and moved the guy into your new marital home? No? Then why the actual F do you have any obligation to talk to her about your feelings? You tried to reconcile for 4 years. It was a good try, an honest try, but it just didn't work. End of.

2) She cries to make you feel guilty. It's a manipulation. She didn't make a mistake. She made a series of choices over a period of weeks and months. She wanted those choices to be consequence free. They aren't. A natural and normal consequence for adultery is divorce.

Leaving a sham marriage because you cannot tolerate adultery isn't quitting nor it it a failure. You had a successful military career. You made it through boot, advanced training, and all the way through service to honorable discharge. You are clearly not a failure or the kind of man who gives up. She broke the vows. You're no longer obligated to her.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

I hope you see from the post of regular women that you’re not doing anything wrong for leaving such a woman. Also take note how a man like you is valued. 

You’re out there making sure we are free and she’s bringing another man into your brand new house before you even had a chance to step into it? And she had that POS around your baby? When you’re nice guy starts to come out, just think about those 2 things.


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## emptyandoverit (Apr 14, 2021)

I want to again thank everyone for their continued input and support, it truly is helpful.


Affaircare said:


> @emptyandoverit, the truth is as long as she draws breath there is the possiblity she could/might change, but the best indicator of whether she will do it or not is the past 4 years. She had every opportunity to demonstrate with her actions that she knew she could not "stay the same" without damaging you, and instead of making any kind of effort, she made the deliberate choice to do nothing. That's because she doesn't really WANT to do anything. When a person really wants it, they find a way!
> 
> If she blames you for not bringing up how you were feeling, just agree with her. Yep, you waited 4 years. Yep, you didn't complain the whole time. Yep, you didn't bring up how you were feeling. But you being quiet for a certain number of years WAS NOT what destroyed the marriage: adultery is what destroyed the marriage. The end.
> 
> ...


Thank you again for your response and help. I am going to be reading a lot of these replies a few times over before I go start the conversation with her about divorce, this will absolutely be one of them!


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## emptyandoverit (Apr 14, 2021)

Trident said:


> st.
> Should have taken the deal she offered you back then when she was in the throes of the affair, doubtful she'll be so generous now.


I fear for that, but I hope she keeps it civil for the sake of our daughter.


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## emptyandoverit (Apr 14, 2021)

frusdil said:


> What an absolute pos wife. Omg.
> 
> OP, mate. You're a soldier. Stand up straight, chest out and walk the hell out of her life. She's gross, you deserve so much better than this, it's just not right.
> 
> You WILL get through this, please be sure to heal completely before you embark on another relationship, your future wife shouldn't have to pay for the sins of the one who came before her.


I do not plan to rush into another relationship, I know that I need to spend a lot of time figuring out who I am as an individual and to heal from this. Great advice and thank you!


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## emptyandoverit (Apr 14, 2021)

I want to thank each and every person who has taken the time to give me their input and advice on my situation, it truly is helpful and appreciated. I have written down quiet a few things that have been said that I will either use to keep reminding myself that I am making the right choice, or use it directly in my approach to her when I ask for the divorce. 

This is my first time on a forum so I don't know if I should continue to update the thread but I can. Yesterday I called and made an appointment to speak with an attorney which will be next Tuesday. 

If I may, I'd like to continue asking for help in this situation. I am struggling, and have been even before coming to this forum, with feeling like I am taking the wrong approach. I change emotions throughout the entire day going back and forth between feeling like the only thing I want to do is pack up and leave and then all the way to the other extreme where I convince myself that this isn't as bad as it seems and that their is something more I can do. I keep telling myself that maybe I should try to bring up the situation directly and let her know how I am feeling and have been feeling about this situation to see if it can be fixed. I also convince myself that maybe I'm not as miserable as I tell myself and that maybe the cheating has nothing to do with it although it clearly does. I'm my own worst enemy. 

I will say that the positive thoughts and thoughts that I can keep this thing afloat come most often when its just me and her and when things are fine. It's like I said, we do get along for the most part. Stuff just hits the fan when a small problem arises and we communicate like two dead phones. Then I talk to my family or come on here or even think about my life with her and I want nothing more than to divorce her. I don't want to seem like an idiot here, I am just wanting to see if anyone can speak to this rollercoaster of emotions?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Please continue to. If people post on your thread it means they have some interest in the outcome, but also who knows who is reading your situation and the help here may help them too. Some of us will often post past threads to help give people instruction, or just some faith that a good outcome is possible.

Finally many people here are people who came here looking for help, improved their situation and are now trying to pay it forward by sharing what they learned and their experience.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

emptyandoverit said:


> I want to thank each and every person who has taken the time to give me their input and advice on my situation, it truly is helpful and appreciated. I have written down quiet a few things that have been said that I will either use to keep reminding myself that I am making the right choice, or use it directly in my approach to her when I ask for the divorce.
> 
> This is my first time on a forum so I don't know if I should continue to update the thread but I can. Yesterday I called and made an appointment to speak with an attorney which will be next Tuesday.
> 
> ...


So you don't have to be married to have some sort of friendship with this person. Marriage is a different commitment and beast all together though right? And one she has failed you at for the most part.

Thing is only you get to decide what your love is worth, you set the price.


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## emptyandoverit (Apr 14, 2021)

sokillme said:


> Please continue to. If people post on your thread it means they have some interest in the outcome, but also who knows who is reading your situation and the help here may help them too. Some of us will often post past threads to help give people instruction, or just some faith that a good outcome is possible.
> 
> Finally many people here are people who came here looking for help, improved their situation and are now trying to pay it forward by sharing what they learned and their experience.


Alright that makes sense to me and I will continue to update as it comes. I hope that one day I can be posting about how much happier I am and be the one paying it forward to others. Thanks!


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## emptyandoverit (Apr 14, 2021)

sokillme said:


> So you don't have to be married to have some sort of friendship with this person. Marriage is a different commitment and beast all together though right? And one she has failed you at for the most part.
> 
> Thing is only you get to decide what your love is worth, you set the price.


For the most part when I picture the "perfect" situation, we can divorce civilly and remain friends in the sense where we can communicate about my child's life and be around each other at her school and sporting events. I don't want to text her and go do things that friends typically do, but I would like to stay friends in some capacity or another. I do set the price on what my love is worth, I'm really glad you said that!


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

emptyandoverit said:


> For the most part when I picture the "perfect" situation, we can divorce civilly and remain friends in the sense where we can communicate about my child's life and be around each other at her school and sporting events. I don't want to text her and go do things that friends typically do, but I would like to stay friends in some capacity or another. I do set the price on what my love is worth, I'm really glad you said that!


In other words, you want to remain civil. That is all the law requires of divorced parents. Remaining civil for the sake of the beautiful human being you both procreated. She is not your friend. She never had your best interest at heart. You share the responsibility of a beautiful child together and she even screwed that up by bringing in her side piece to you precious child's home and allowed that man to even change her diapers. Be civil and vigilant because she is not a responsible parent. She falls way short.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

emptyandoverit said:


> For the most part when I picture the "perfect" situation, we can divorce civilly and remain friends in the sense where we can communicate about my child's life and be around each other at her school and sporting events. I don't want to text her and go do things that friends typically do, but I would like to stay friends in some capacity or another. I do set the price on what my love is worth, I'm really glad you said that!


This seems a reasonable outcome and a more healthy one, but then I have to ask why do you write things like -



> "I will say that the positive thoughts and thoughts that I can keep this thing afloat come most often when its just me and her and when things are fine. It's like I said, we do get along for the most part."


Does this and more importantly should this have any real weight on the quality of your life and if your marriage should continue? 

This is kind of my point, the ability to NOT kill each other when you are in the same room, interacting a very shallow and superficial moment doesn't make it a good or even adequate marriage. That just means you can tolerate each others presence. It's a very low bar. In that sense you could be married to almost the entire world. 

But we are talking about - give your whole life to someone - marriage here.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

Self esteem. Critical to your mission to a better you. I am sending you to Sgt. NLLH Betrayed Husband Bootcamp. Picture R Lee Ermy when you read my orders. Only I am much better looking that he. You are now on the “yellow footprints” of NLLH Betrayed Husband Bootcamp. You will respond “YES SGT NLLH”!!


You have taken a hit. You are wounded. You will get up. You will heal! Understand Recruit?
She is not worthy of a man like yourself. Nor will you continue to sulk and pine for her. Understand?
You are stronger than you realize. Understand.
You are in a temporary place. Not permanent. Understand!
You will make your child your number one priority.
You will get up, dust off, and move forward. Understand!?
You will hit the gym. Get yourself lean and mean. Understand!
You will get you a new hair style, new threads, and look sharp!
Left foot, right foot, breathe repeat. Understand?
You will transform into a lean mean dating machine.

DISMISSED!


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

You found out the hard way to never put a woman on a pedestal. A perfect example of if you treat her like a star, she'll treat you like a fan. 

I wish you all the best as you move on. My only suggestion is to grab a couple books that probably already been mentioned, No More Mr Nice Guy and The Rational Male.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Any chance she has bipolar or borderline personality disorder??

I'm not shrink or anything, but she sounds like more than just a crappy wife, she sounds disordered and not all that functional as an adult person. 

BPD'rs have two great fears that govern their thoughts and behaviors, the first is being engulfed and controlled and the other is abandonment. So either way they can not be content and functional in a relationship. When they are with someone they are often rebellious and resistant to everything that is normal functioning in a relationship (such as teamwork and division of responsibilities and establishment of roles within the relationship and observing basic boundaries and relationship conduct such as not screwing other people etc. 

And their fear of abandonment will often have them lining up several layers of "replacements" and being ready, willing and able to monkey branch to the next relationship at a moment's notice. Be warned they can also become very destructive and intentionally hurtful when they find out you are thinking of or trying to leave them. These are the people that will make false domestic abuse and even child abuse and molestation charges. They will make up false allegations of marital rape and tax fraud and hiding money and take baseball bats to your car etc. Be careful. Don't tip your hand and have as much of your plan in place and things worked out with your lawyer before you light the fuse because there will be no turning back and it will get rough and be a bumpy road. 

But one of the biggest signs of being with a BPD'r is that they can make the sane person feel like they are the crazy one. Any of the Cluster B's will always play the perfect victim and will make everyone else out to be the bad guy and will make everyone else feel crazy and like they are somehow to blame. 

The only real fix is to insulate from them and protect yourself from them as much as possible so as to minimize the damage they can do to you.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

Al_Bundy said:


> You found out the hard way to never put a woman on a pedestal. A perfect example of if you treat her like a star, she'll treat you like a fan.
> 
> I wish you all the best as you move on. My only suggestion is to grab a couple books that probably already been mentioned, No More Mr Nice Guy and The Rational Male.


One book I will add is Larry Winget’s “Grow A Pair”. I say this not in jest but in all seriousness. I read that book myself.
Easy read with great info to move out of this **** show.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

emptyandoverit said:


> Im going to replay this over and over in my head during this process. Thank you!


She was F-ing Jodi right up to the day you returned. Question? Did she let you go down on her the day after she let Jodi bust a nut up in her the night before?


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

emptyandoverit said:


> She was not to my knowledge, puppy love faze we were young and life hadn’t really hit us yet as far as adult responsibilities so it was all love and fun. She was a Christian, straight edge virgin when we met but that was probably a lie to be honest. I’m concerned about what she wants I think because I love her, or had love for her. And I think I grab for what we once had wanting it back but she has changed and the damage is heavy.


Tell her virginity was special to you and she has **** all over that and you can only see her as soiled now after what she has done. Tell her she destroyed that specialness you held for her. She killed your love. Then leave. This is on her.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

emptyandoverit said:


> I fear for that, but I hope she keeps it civil for the sake of our daughter.


Are you even positive the child is biologically yours? I would check.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I'm glad you're feeling more confident about taking action instead of waiting to see what she does. I know this can be humiliating but just remember that you are not the one who created this situation or the one who should be embarrassed. You didn't fail.


You married young and you loved each other, but now you're two adults who seem to be going in different directions. One has embraced responsibility while the other one seems to still be just aimless. Young people sometimes get into deep with having kids and then feel like they missed part of their youth and in fact they have. I don't know if that is your wife's mindset or not, but she doesn't seem capable of being a good partner. Maybe a few years of having to take responsibility for herself will change her for the better. 

You will still be in communication with her, but you need to be careful not to let her have so much access to you that once you start dating, she will be underfoot and invasive and running off other women. In other words you need to start thinking now about boundaries you will need to set about communication. I recommend getting all agreements in writing before a judge so that no one can be bending the rules and that's especially something to worry about since she has not been very diligent. It needs to all be official so that you have recourse if she doesn't handle her end of things. 

Don't give her a key to your place once you're divorced or license to just drop by and have a agreements about that you should be communicating only about the child.


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## emptyandoverit (Apr 14, 2021)

Divinely Favored said:


> Are you even positive the child is biologically yours? I would check.


My daughter looks exactly like me, I have absolutely no doubt she is mine lol but good point nonetheless


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## emptyandoverit (Apr 14, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I'm glad you're feeling more confident about taking action instead of waiting to see what she does. I know this can be humiliating but just remember that you are not the one who created this situation or the one who should be embarrassed. You didn't fail.
> 
> 
> You married young and you loved each other, but now you're two adults who seem to be going in different directions. One has embraced responsibility while the other one seems to still be just aimless. Young people sometimes get into deep with having kids and then feel like they missed part of their youth and in fact they have. I don't know if that is your wife's mindset or not, but she doesn't seem capable of being a good partner. Maybe a few years of having to take responsibility for herself will change her for the better.
> ...


Very great advice, this is something I will bring up with my lawyer at the first consultation tomorrow


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## emptyandoverit (Apr 14, 2021)

sokillme said:


> This seems a reasonable outcome and a more healthy one, but then I have to ask why do you write things like -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I really needed this one. It’s replies like this that help clear my own confusion. You’re right, I could marry virtually anyone if getting along with them was my only criteria. I’ve not only set the bar too low, I think I straight up just put it on the floor with this one.


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## emptyandoverit (Apr 14, 2021)

Divinely Favored said:


> She was F-ing Jodi right up to the day you returned. Question? Did she let you go down on her the day after she let Jodi bust a nut up in her the night before?


This reply was a bit aggressive, but I can see why people would be frustrated seeing what I allow myself to endure. But to answer your question, no she didn’t. We didn’t kiss or have sex or anything because she said, at the time, the love was gone and we’d have to work to get it back before being sexual. Which is just another detail that, looking back on, really f’s with me. I got the tables turned on me and she became the victim. I was the one that needed to do the fixing.


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## emptyandoverit (Apr 14, 2021)

Al_Bundy said:


> You found out the hard way to never put a woman on a pedestal. A perfect example of if you treat her like a star, she'll treat you like a fan.
> 
> I wish you all the best as you move on. My only suggestion is to grab a couple books that probably already been mentioned, No More Mr Nice Guy and The Rational Male.


I’m halfway through No More Mr Nice Guy and I can’t thank the couple of people, including yourself, enough for suggesting it. So far it’s seriously helping me realize who I am and what I need to change about that. I’m done being a doormat.


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## emptyandoverit (Apr 14, 2021)

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> Self esteem. Critical to your mission to a better you. I am sending you to Sgt. NLLH Betrayed Husband Bootcamp. Picture R Lee Ermy when you read my orders. Only I am much better looking that he. You are now on the “yellow footprints” of NLLH Betrayed Husband Bootcamp. You will respond “YES SGT NLLH”!!
> 
> 
> You have taken a hit. You are wounded. You will get up. You will heal! Understand Recruit?
> ...


YES SGT NLLH!!! Lol I loved every second of your reply, much needed laugh! Lucky for me, I never let myself go. Workout 5 days a week, lean 185lbs lol just gotta get the “dating machine” part added but that will come months down the road. This recruit has to focus on shining his own boots for right now!


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## emptyandoverit (Apr 14, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> Any chance she has bipolar or borderline personality disorder??
> 
> I'm not shrink or anything, but she sounds like more than just a crappy wife, she sounds disordered and not all that functional as an adult person.
> 
> ...


I am honestly unsure if she has any psychological disorders but she does at least seem pretty level headed when it comes to her moods and such. She doesn’t seem to swing from one mood to another. I could speculate all day as to why she is the way that she is, but I truly will never know. For what it’s worth, my speculation is that she is who she is because of her upbringing. She was raised by a single, young, mother with the help of grandmas and aunts. Her dad has been in and out of prison her entire life. She was never made to do anything. Her mom wasn’t her mom, that was her friend. Her mom took care of absolutely anything and everything for her. When I got with her she was 17 and I feel like I took on the parental responsibilities of her mother under the ruse that it was an adult relationship. She never had to become an adult. She never had to handle anything on her own. Life is a big game to her. I’m not tooting my own horn, I’m very very humble and I realize that people take different paths in life but let me say this. When we got together we were on the same playing field. Young, broke, working in a grocery store. I have since become a veteran, I have 3 college degrees and work in a fantastic federal position. She never left the first rung of life’s ladder. She has 0 education and makes nachos at a local fast food spot. That’s not because my lack of support in her advancement and that’s not because of her holding the house down while i succeeded. It’s pure laziness and lack of desire to advance in life. She’s stuck in late teenager mode. Get taken care of, work a non serious job, make it look like it’s a team effort of success. It’s not. She’s an anchor in my life. Then decides im not good enough and steps out on me. She claimed she was so happy with this guy she was with that she cheated with. Well why come back to me then? Here’s my guess. Everything I mentioned about me above versus the guy she was with was a manager at a food place living in a poopy apartment. She followed the money.


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## emptyandoverit (Apr 14, 2021)

Here’s my update for whomever is still keeping up:

I’m halfway through the book “No More Mr. Nice Guy” and it’s been extremely helpful, solid suggestion!

I have my first consultation with an attorney tomorrow and I’m hoping it all goes well. I’m shooting for an uncontested divorce based on irreconcilable differences.

I would prefer not to drag her name through the mud and bring out the history of our marriage in front of a judge, but I will if I have to.

I’m going to propose 50/50 on everything. Property (shell actually get majority) money, legal and physical custody, no child support from either parent or I will pursue full custody and I’m going to propose that we move forward with selling the home and splitting the equity 50/50. We had already been working with a realty company when we wanted to sell our home and purchase another, but that plan halted (thank goodness) about a month ago but luckily the house is still ready to sell. Crappy part will be still being in the home together while it sells, I am not leaving the home before it sells.

I started running a budget as if I’m a single parent and financially I’m looking like I’m going to be okay. I found an apartment complex I want to move in to upon divorce that will keep my child in her school district. Struggling with the idea of moving from my own home to a rented apartment, But hey that’s life I guess. It’ll be nice living in a place another man hasn’t banged my wife in.

I’m getting overwhelmed with the desire to leave at this point and it’s thanks to y’all and my family. It’s all I can think about and I’m struggling to not show it to her this soon. I can’t even sit and talk to her without getting irritated listening to her bs. I just want to tell her now but I’m going to wait. She keeps pulling more and more bs though but I’ll save y’all the drama of it. Just makes me more and more done as each day passes.

She just mentioned she was considering getting a quarter sleeve tattoo with our wedding flowers...that super confused me because I know I’m not the only one who feels the rocks at the feet of our marriage. We are hanging by a thread and she knows that. So I wasn’t sure if she said that to feel me out or if she is legitimately that blind to my unhappiness in the marriage.

I’m excited to finally have my life back. When this happened I virtually cut my family off completely. My STBX said it was embarrassing and came out with all of these other excuses like saying my mom and sister already didn’t like her and now after the affair she couldn’t face them anymore. Has even flipped the entire story to where she isn’t invited to my families house and isn’t liked by my family. Most of that is true but it’s because of what she did and how she handled it, not because they suck as family. So needless to say I’m pumped to finally reconnect with my mom and sister and brother after 4 years of having to plan to see them based around when my STBX would and wouldn’t be home. I’m kinda rambling at this point so I’ll end it here. Lots of emotion, sorry.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

emptyandoverit said:


> I’m halfway through No More Mr Nice Guy and I can’t thank the couple of people, including yourself, enough for suggesting it. So far it’s seriously helping me realize who I am and what I need to change about that. I’m done being a doormat.


Good for you! If you can incorporate these changes and ideas into your life it will make a huge difference for you.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

emptyandoverit said:


> I really needed this one. It’s replies like this that help clear my own confusion. You’re right, I could marry virtually anyone if getting along with them was my only criteria. I’ve not only set the bar too low, I think I straight up just put it on the floor with this one.


Don't blame yourself. You were just young. She was young. Sounds like she is just not accepting adulting very well.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

emptyandoverit said:


> Here’s my update for whomever is still keeping up:
> 
> I’m halfway through the book “No More Mr. Nice Guy” and it’s been extremely helpful, solid suggestion!
> 
> ...


Oh thank goodness you found the light! Hallelujah!! Proud of you.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

I was just going to ask for an update on your sitch when you posted the update. Thank you. Be patient and you will earn your rewards. Don't let her aggravate you as you will get the last laugh if you remain calm and collected. You are doing great!


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

emptyandoverit said:


> Here’s my update for whomever is still keeping up:
> 
> I’m halfway through the book “No More Mr. Nice Guy” and it’s been extremely helpful, solid suggestion!
> 
> ...


👍


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## manowar (Oct 3, 2020)

Dump her. Date other women. Put yourself first. Read those books 3x. 

Your relationship has been over for a long time.


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

Glad to hear you are moving forward. You said something interesting. You said you didn't want to drag her name through the mud in front of the judge. Facts are facts. You aren't dragging anyone into the mud, she willingly jumped into the mud herself. 

Best of luck, hope you continue to make progress.


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## emptyandoverit (Apr 14, 2021)

So I bring you all a very sad update for me. I did speak to an attorney last week and after a lengthy conversation he suggested I write down all of my feelings and present them to my wife and request MC. He said if it doesn’t go well then state I would be filing either for dissolution or separation.

I spent the next few days really wondering if this is what I want and if I’m trying hard enough. I thought maybe I could change some things here or there and really express my love for her and desire to repair the things I feel are broken despite the constant telling me that everything is perfect when they are clearly not. I had spent months and months suspicious of her moves and thinking I was a psycho for creating problems out of nothing. I thought I was wrong to be concerned over her changing her style, getting a nose ring, going from drinking once a month to 4-5 times a week, tanning, going outside to “sit in the sun” for two or more hours, taking 45 minute bathroom breaks, not going to bed with me anymore because “I’m asleep anyway,” but coming to bed at 230am when I’m getting up for work. It was all so suspicious but she was so good at making me seem like a crazy person.

As I sat down to begin writing out my feelings, something told me to check her laptop which I have never done. I obviously first noticed her laptop password had been changed. I was able to figure it out anyway. We have apple products so her texts were synced with her laptop. She’s been carrying on multiple online affairs with other married men whom she met through the online phone game called PUBG where you play short first person shooter matches with random people that you can talk to through your mic. This is a game we downloaded and enjoyed together. Turns out all of this sneaky stuff was happening because she was talking to other guys. She didn’t have their numbers saved and had them checked as “do not disturb” so they wouldn’t pop up when I’m around her. I didn’t see anything too crazy but the conversations are inappropriate and she’s the aggressor. She sends them pictures of herself with makeup done and new outfits with her cleavage showing. Things she never does for me I’m lucky if she brushes her hair or changes out of her PJs/Work cloths. The man said that her sending pictures was risky and she said it’s a risk she’s willing to take. He then asked what other risks she’s willing to take. They even talk about me a lot she sent him a photo of me and my daughter and he sent her one of his wife and their daughter. Why!? It’s so sick.

Another message she had was from a woman who stated that my wife had been talking to her husband and that she found the messages and his tinder and Snapchat. My wife replied claiming they’ve never spoken inappropriately and it was only ever about PUBG. Who knows how many times she’s done this or if she’s met up with someone and I don’t honestly want to know. This could all be online fantasy but it’s adultery yet again. It’s at least 3 married men she’s talking to. One had even said he’s married but gets lonely and meets new people as he travels for work and asked where she’s from. From what I’ve seen it isn’t overly bad yet but it’s leading to that and enough for me to know the cheating probably never stopped.

Although I didn’t realize it at the time I had my first panic attack when I saw the messages. I couldn’t breathe, I was seeing stars, my hands went pale I thought I was going to need an ambulance. I chilled out after speaking to my mother on the phone and her and my sister came over and got my weapons from me.

I called my wife while she was at work and told her I am quite calm right now but I need her to know that I know everything and that I would not keep her from coming home but I do not want her in the bedroom with me and I said we would talk about the next steps in the coming days. She had the most defeated sounding “ok” response and I hung up.

I noticed that night she got home she sent one of the guys a text saying sorry I was at work missed your text goodnight. That’s not terrible but why do that when you just got caught? She’s still actively playing or at least logging into the PUBG game.

She then sent me a text late last night reading this:

I know it’s too late and I know there is nothing I can say at this point to mend what I have broken but I am sorry. I’m sorry for hurting you so many times. I’m sorry for not appreciating you and us. I’m sorry for being the worst human. I have no idea why I did what I did and I think that makes it worst. I’m sorry for ruining the best thing in my life and for ruining (my child) life as well. So many selfish decisions that I cannot explain and I’m just sorry. You deserve so much better and I’m at least happy that you might finally have a chance to be with someone who you truly deserve. I don’t expect or want a response to this but I couldn’t leave this marriage without at least saying those things. I’m sorry.

How dare she? How can she be so cruel to me to pretend she made another mistake and ruined our marriage that she claimed was “the best thing in my life?” Why toy with my heart just let me go. It’s so unreal I’m going through a scary cycle of emotions.

I did however return to the lawyer yesterday. Paid him his retainer fee and I finished all the paperwork this morning. I’ll be returning that to them this afternoon and staying in a hotel tonight as she is off of work. I will not be speaking to her until she has been served which should be early next week. Let’s see if she’s so apologetic and nice once she has the papers in her hands. Life sucks right now.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Thank God for her continued waywardness.

It sounded like you almost relented and were considering kindly, rapprochement, ah, that Reconciliation.

With that_ ten year mark _in marriages, often comes long-term alimony. 
Some states give lifetime alimony.
Hurry up this divorce.

She knows she is a traitor and has lost the moral battle. 
She said this to your face.

Leave her to her own devices. 
She has some sort of_ personality disorder_ going on.

She will eventually grow up, let it not be at your expense (more than it already has).

Good luck!


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Stay in the military, get your 20 year letter.
That military retirement, plus Social Security, will create a wonderful retirement for yourself.

Plus, you will get lifetime military health insurance, not a small thing.

So few, civilian employers are offering fixed retirements anymore.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

SO sorry that you have this going on in your life, but honestly it is MUCH better that you actually found out. It should now take any doubts out of your head that you are doing the right thing.

Make copies of all the emails/pics, etc. -- she will probably try to re-write you marital history to anyone who will listen -- it was YOUR fault. YOU drove her away, YOUR work.... blah blah blah. KEEP the proof someplace she can't get to it.

She probably sent that "sorry" text because she is sorry -- that she got caught again and ruined her "good times". She had her cake and was eating it too. Now you will be taking away her cake. She wrote that to try to manipulate you into NOT leaving her. She MAY honestly mean what she said, but I think you are pretty clear that you are not putting up with that. ESPECIALLY (and you can tell her this) since you caught her TEXTING other guys AFTER you told her that you knew everything. THAT by itself is super telling. Mention to her she needs to go to counseling for herself to figure out why she felt it was ok to do this -- if not, she will NEVER have a good relationship moving forward.

BTW, since you have these guys contact info, you may want to find out THEIR spouses and give them the heads up (don't tell your wife you are doing that) -- those spouses deserve to know what crappy husbands they married.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

emptyandoverit said:


> So I bring you all a very sad update for me. I did speak to an attorney last week and after a lengthy conversation he suggested I write down all of my feelings and present them to my wife and request MC. He said if it doesn’t go well then state I would be filing either for dissolution or separation.
> 
> I spent the next few days really wondering if this is what I want and if I’m trying hard enough. I thought maybe I could change some things here or there and really express my love for her and desire to repair the things I feel are broken despite the constant telling me that everything is perfect when they are clearly not. I had spent months and months suspicious of her moves and thinking I was a psycho for creating problems out of nothing. I thought I was wrong to be concerned over her changing her style, getting a nose ring, going from drinking once a month to 4-5 times a week, tanning, going outside to “sit in the sun” for two or more hours, taking 45 minute bathroom breaks, not going to bed with me anymore because “I’m asleep anyway,” but coming to bed at 230am when I’m getting up for work. It was all so suspicious but she was so good at making me seem like a crazy person.
> 
> ...


Well now you know your gut was right about her as a person. Your gut now also tells you it’s time to get out so trust it when you feel moments of weakness now. Use your anger to push through and get out of the situation and then move forward.

You deserve so much more. I’m so sorry for this heartbreaking discovery... but part of you has to be relieved that you finally know you aren’t crazy or suspicious... you’re just right.

Hopefully what little guilt or trying to get in your good graces she is able to feel will help you resolve a divorce quickly.


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

Her text was pure manipulative BS. She doesn't feel guilt or regret like normal people. She does not empathize with you; she only knows that it's something she needs to fake to get what she wants.

Full steam ahead with the divorce.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Boo hoo hoo. I’m so sorry...... I got caught..


Marriage counseling is the last thing you should do. The marriage isn’t broken she is. You’d be lucky to find a decent MC. Many are horrible rugsweepers or will blame you for her affair.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

So sorry!!! Get out, get free and find a better life. Stay strong!!! _hugs_


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## colingrant (Nov 6, 2017)

It's important that you acknowledge the fact that she doesn't care any longer and is apologizing on the way out the door of which she is opening on her own through her actions. Her reply apologizing to the guy on the good night text is all you need to know as it happened shortly following getting busted. A wife afraid of losing her family would reveal emotion that's hard to describe for those not there.

But, she was calm and ended it with OK. Don't get insulted by that, just realize that's where she is and it has nothing to do with you and everything to do with how f'd up she is. What's interesting is it's a lifestyle and not a person she's in love with which would be understandable with limerence.

A lifestyle is a situation where she's in it with her eyes wide open and where affair fog typically doesn't exists. Don't look or wait for remorse, sincerity, begging, crying or anything. Just calmly accept the fact that she probably cares about you, the marriage and your family but not nearly enough to fear losing the lifestyle that she's chosen over her family. The world is full of people who aren't made out to be faithful and live with family first beliefs.

Problem is they often don't know it until they marry which means they have to mess up someone else's life to learn about themselves. Only thing you can do is protect yourself, child and assets to minimize the hit. Get therapy and separate asap so that you can recover and move onto the next chapter of your life.

No need to get angry or vengeful. What speaks the loudest is unwavering commitment to eliminating her from your life so that you and your child are minimally impacted. That should be your objective. She may or may not provide you with the level of remorse that melts men's hearts of women they love so you'll have to prepare to do what's smart for you and your kid. That's the ONLY thing that matters.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Apologies like the one she sent you are meaningless. She is not sorry that she cheated multiple times during your marriage, she is only sorry that you finally caught her (again) and she sees the ATM going away.

I still cannot believe she had the balls to move her boyfriend into your new house before you even had a chance to walk through the door.

Divorce is the way to go. Better late than never.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Serial cheaters never stop. Drop that hopium pipe forever.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

SunCMars said:


> Stay in the military, get your 20 year letter.
> That military retirement, plus Social Security, will create a wonderful retirement for yourself.
> 
> Plus, you will get lifetime military health insurance, not a small thing.
> ...


Amen from this gray headed jarhead!


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

@emptyandoverit Update? Has she been served? How are you doing?


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## emptyandoverit (Apr 14, 2021)

Two months later...here's my update. I sat down one night and tried to talk to my STBX about the situation. It was 8 straight hours of conversation and tears. Before I get to that I guess I should dive a little more into what I had found on her phone most recently, as mentioned previous in this thread. The guys she was talking to dated back to December of last year. She was talking to four guys and they were all online friends that she became friends with. She was having personal text conversations with all of them and had all of them checked as "do not disturb." I assume that even though most of the messages were friendly, she was deleting them because she knew that we had boundaries in our relationship that did not allow us to do that type of stuff. I didn't set that boundary out of control, she set it years ago and we both stuck by it. 

Most of the texts with the other guys were just basic getting to know them and talking about the PUBG game that they play together. One guy did mention that he likes to meet new people when he travels around which I know was his attempt to start that process of meeting her but I will give her the fact that she didn't entertain him when he said that. The one person she was texting that I can't seem to let go, yet can't convince myself was "cheating," is the one she was having with a guy named Chris. Again is was basic talk about each other and even their families but with him I could tell it was more than what it was with the other guys. She was sharing TikTok videos with him, asking about this work day, sending him photos of her dolled up in makeup. He had asked where her husband was and he said what she was doing was risky and she did say this is a risk im willing to take and then he asked what other risks shes willing to take. From what I read she didn't touch on that she just promised to not send him anymore pictures so his wife would not get mad. He then told her he was getting in the shower and not to text after her next reply. I assume that is because he would be around his wife and he was also hiding the relationship. His wife did indeed know about my wife which was a sticking point for my STBX to say it truly was innocent and she knew about her. She knew about my STBX because she was sending her free rewards points from her job but that doesn't mean she knew what was taking place in those text messages because what wife would be? I also can't get over the fact that she was not coming to bed with me for those couple of weeks and when I light heartedly mentioned that I know she's been going to bed at 2-3AM because she wakes me up everytime and that she should just go to bed with me. She claimed that I am asleep when she is done with her teeth and that isn't true and if it was, to me, that should not matter. The truth was she was waiting until I went to bed so she could stay up and text and play PUBG with Chris. I feel stupid, but is this cheating? Is this really that bad? I mean it was sneaky and wrong but was it cheating? It also urkes me that I spent so much time crying to her that she was my person and that something was off and for her to claim it was all good meanwhile she was entertaining other men, even in a friendly capacity, just hurts me. Once she gets caught all of a sudden she regrets that and did it because she didn't feel like I make her a priority but she knows that we belong together and she would do anything to make this work. 

That toys with me because when she cheated physically she used that same excuse. Not happy in the marriage and regrets what she did and wishes she could take it back. How do you realize this two different times? She is holding on to the fact that her relationship with Chris was purely friends and her only fault was hiding it. I just don't know that I agree. When we sat down to talk I had prewarned her that this was make or break us. We were going to go through some hard truths but if we had anything left to save, the truth would need to come out. We went over the cheating thing from 2017 again and I found out that she didn't just keep the relationship going because she got an STD. She admitted that she kept having sex with him and then later found out he gave her an STD and still kept having sex with him and everything else that took place during that time. I also found out that Father's Day of 2017 when she refused to answer my phone calls so I could speak to my child because it was "just too hard" but the truth was she was spending fathers day with the other man. Lastly she admitted that she not only saw him the night before I came home, she saw him one more time after because she said he just would not leave her alone so she met him to tell him in person that she is working on her marriage and that this is over. She claims it was one time and nothing sexual happened. 

Moving on to the conversations with the guys on PUBG. I don't need to get into too much detail on this but basically when questioning her she said it all started in March. I asked her why someone else's wife messaged her in February saying she was talking to that woman's husband and then my STBX just stared at me for a minute, and then said "Ok I'm lying yes there was one more guy and it started in December." I couldn't see those messages so I asked her how bad they were and she claims not at all, just friends. Which is what she told that man's wife as well I did at least see that. But how can I believe that? How can we be sitting here in a make or break conversation and you still lie to me? Maybe because she really did regret it but was scared it would too much to forgive? I do not know but I am so hurt that she would say that she just didn't feel loved and prioritized and when I asked for marriage coaching and when I was pleading for change she just said we are fine. We are fine and yet we weren't. Now that she got caught she wanted to go to coaching again and said that we are each other's people and that we can get through this. She said she can't promise it would never happen again but she knows that if we loved each other in the way that we should than she wouldn't do it again. I feel like she's just telling me yeah I'm going to do it again. Then when I moved past the cheating and went to the other frustrations like tracking our budget. I said if you don't want to track the budget I will compromise and just have weekly sit downs to discuss our expenses and goals and spending to which she said she does not want to feel like she is being questioned for her purchases. So she will not get on and track our budget but also does not want to feel like she is being questioned on purchases and I just don't get how that is fair to me. She is basically saying you are going to love me more and in exchange I will stay who I am but I won't, or I might, not cheat again. 

Anyways we went to marriage coaching and I was paying $150/hr to see him. He said that we would eventually talk about trauma healing but for now we won't. His plan that was we were going to focus on love and attention and that was it. We were not allowed to fight or bicker or let anything stressful put us against each other. We were to plan dates for each other and give gifts each week. At first, it was amazing. We were talking, cuddling, going to bed together, going on dates, giving gifts and having a lot of sex. It felt like love. The problem is, though, that I was still dealing with my daily frustrations of feeling like I am not really being helped and yet I could not talk about it. I will say that she was doing a TON of stuff when we first started going to coaching. Picking up sticks, dog poop, organizing etc. it was great but that slowly trickled back down to just dishes and making the bed and my daughters laundry. Everything else was on me. I also had the feeling that I am still not healing. I think my marriage coach forgot that she even had an affair. I felt like I was the one who needed to be fixed in order to not be cheated on. It made me feel like this was my fault and that made it super hard for me to keep trying to love her "right." Slowly I stopped calling her after work, I stopped touching her as much and I stopped giving her gifts and planning dates. I feel really really terrible for failing to keep up on my end but for whatever reason I couldn't bring myself to keep doing it. So, last week I met with my sister and told her everything. I texted her when I got home and thanked her for our talk and relationship and said I had the confidence to tell my STBX that this was finally over.

Well, my STBX got my phone while I was asleep and saw that message. She said she could sense something was off with me so she went snooping and found that. She told me that I did not have to be afraid to talk to her about divorce so I spilled all of my feelings and told her this was over. I filled out the attorney paperwork and dropped it off the next day. She has since been going back and forth between accepting this and trying to workout a plan to move apart and BEGGING me not to do this. She is literally crying and BEGGING me not to leave. She says that we are meant to be together and that mistakes were made between the both of us but she knows this isn't the end. When she said she wanted to meet to talk about how we are going to address my child she did not really have that talk. Instead she used that as another chance to beg me to stay with her. She even said I'm divorcing her because I do not love her anymore and that hurts because I do love her I just can't take being cheated on. 

I feel so so so terrible like I am giving up on this after 12 years. I feel like I am being unfair because we were happy in marriage coaching and things seemed great so she is blindsided by me saying actually no I'm done here. It doesn't seem fair. I feel bad that she is going to have to move in with her mom tomorrow and probably won't be able to afford or have the childcare to move out anytime soon. I feel like I am kicking her out of her own home. This is our home. Her pictures are on my walls. We built that together and now shes taking what she can fit in a jeep and leaving. I can't help but to feel like such a prick for giving up on my marriage right now but I keep trying to remind myself that realistically we probably could not get back to a place of love and trust. I am REALLY struggling with the idea of how this will impact my 7 year old. When she is with me she will miss her mom and when she is with her mom she will miss me. She asked me last night if I would be sad sleeping on the couch alone (she slept in my bed with my STBX) that's my daughters big heart wanting everyone to be happy and it's about to be not happy. Not happy at all. Her entire world is going to change and that feels like my fault. 

Does anyone who has been keeping up with this thread have any advice for me? Honest advice that isn't just "screw her!" You guys seem super helpful so I would greatly appreciate help. From what you see is what she did with the guys on texting really enough to say this is it for us?


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

Sorry you're going through this man. The reason this feels like cheating is because you've already gone through this with her before. You know what it looks like beforehand. Saying you were happy during counseling isn't really true, you were "happy" because the MC basically had you guys sweep everything under the rug and pretend like nothing ever happened. Which was a lie. 

I'm sure she says all the right things now, but like before when things started out great and trickled down to nothing, that's what will happen again. This should have ended in 2017. I know you don't want any responses about "screw her" but she's not an angel. She's a married woman who got an STD from another guy. SHE is the one who has blown up this marriage. SHE is the one who said screw you.

Best of luck, stay strong. Make sure you keep taking care of yourself during this time. Eat right, workout, talk to friends.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

I wish I could find a reason for you to stay.

Bottom line: your analysis on her not being safe is 100% correct. 

I do believe people can reform...but your wife isn't one of them. 

Her very nature is rooted in dishonesty. 

She will not accept accountability. 

Furthermore, the dishonesty is not only to you, but to herself.

You should be done with her, brother. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

There’s zero constructive advice anyone can give you other thAn to extract this infected tooth you call a wife and move on. It’s not what you want to hear, but it’s the truth.

YOU cannot fix HER. And it’s her that ruined the marriage, not the both of you.

lots of situations involving marriages are the result of both spouses. In this rare case, I’d say she was 100% at fault.

You come here looking for people to give you reasons to keep trying. Strategies that you might employ, things yo help the marriage.
There is no marriage here. Your wife is only begging you to stay because you provide a security blanket which she uses to snuggle in.
Problem is, as soon as she’s secure in the relationship again, she’s going to be banging the neighbor down the street or getting online to get down with gamer guys.

She doesn’t love you. She loves using you.

move on. Divorce her. And I would give her as little as possible in the divorce so you can use the money to help your child and build a new life with something you’ve never had— a loyal partner.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

How many times do we have to tell you it is not your fault?


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

honestly you shoudl have given up 4 years ago when she cheated on your the first time...now you just grew a back bone and am finally told her no more third...4th , 5th chances. Stop feeling bad for something that is not your fault...you married a serial cheater and you are blaming yourself stop that...


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

I just wanted to break down a few points you mentioned and maybe that will help



emptyandoverit said:


> She was sharing TikTok videos with him, asking about this work day, sending him photos of her dolled up in makeup. He had asked where her husband was and he said what she was doing was risky and she did say this is a risk im willing to take


This is WAY MORE than her just "being a friend". She WILLFULLY admitted that she was willing to risk her marriage to talk with this guy. That is not being sorrowful -- it is flat out cheating.


emptyandoverit said:


> Once she gets caught all of a sudden she regrets that and did it because she didn't feel like I make her a priority but she knows that we belong together and she would do anything to make this work.


THIS is her turning HER cheating on YOU -- that it's YOUR FAULT she was cheating (again). IT was not -- it was her choice. She's and adult and KNEW she was taking risks doing this -- as she admitted above. She lost the bet.


emptyandoverit said:


> She is holding on to the fact that her relationship with Chris was purely friends and her only fault was hiding it.


Well clearly you KNOW this isn't true -- it's her trying to gaslight you.


emptyandoverit said:


> I couldn't see those messages so I asked her how bad they were and she claims not at all, just friends.


If they were just friends, she wouldn't have needed to delete them, no? Again, she knows you can't PROVE anything, so she's taking the easy solution to put you off.


emptyandoverit said:


> but I am so hurt that she would say that she just didn't feel loved and prioritized and when I asked for marriage coaching and when I was pleading for change she just said we are fine


Again, trying to turn it all on YOU. It's not HER fault -- you drove her to it. PURE BS.


emptyandoverit said:


> she wanted to go to coaching again and said that we are each other's people and that we can get through this


Sure, she got caught and wants the gravy train to continue....


emptyandoverit said:


> She said she can't promise it would never happen again but she knows that if we loved each other in the way that we should than she wouldn't do it again.


SHE IS TELLING you that she will cheat again -- she is TELLING you that is WHO SHE IS. Believe her. She just wants YOU to rug sweep it.


emptyandoverit said:


> I also had the feeling that I am still not healing. I think my marriage coach forgot that she even had an affair. I felt like I was the one who needed to be fixed in order to not be cheated on.


You WEREN'T healing -- the MC IGNORED working on anything to do with the cheating. THEY were trying to rug sweep it also.


emptyandoverit said:


> She says that we are meant to be together and that mistakes were made between the both of us but she knows this isn't the end.


Again, blaming YOU for this.


emptyandoverit said:


> I feel like I am being unfair because we were happy in marriage coaching and things seemed great so she is blindsided by me saying actually no I'm done here.


Nope, you were in a FALSE world with the marriage coaching because the dates, etc. were NOT REAL -- they didn't address your issues. The rug swept the problem to "make you feel in love again" -- but NOTHING to solve the issue. Your MC was awful. She is NOT blindsided -- she was just trying to avoid it.

Just remember this -- YOU didn't kill the marriage -- SHE did with her actions. YOU are not at fault for not being able to deal with a serial cheater. YOU have your own boundaries, and when you child is old enough, you can explain this to her as to why you would NOT put up with being disrespected and cheated on. 

WHY do you feel awful? Because your a good person with a lot of love in your heart, but you also need to accept your OWN feelings about this -- you can't live your life for her anymore. This is just the pain you have due to separation/divorce. You will get past this. You KNOW she isn't a safe person for you (or for anyone for that matter). She hasn't addressed ANY of HER issues. Did SHE got to her own counselor to work on that? Then how would you expect any of her issues to be address (just like YOURS were not at the MC).

Sorry that you are having such a tough time, but you KNOW you are doing the right thing....


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Empty..... you're fighting a war you can't win.

After you disengage, it won't take long for you to realize you made the right choice.

She did it once and now is pushing the same boundary.

If I had known you and your WW and both of you were at my place and she told me my house was on fire,

I wouldn't even raise my hand up to feel the walls.

This is her pattern... a repeating pattern. Cut your loses and D


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

emptyandoverit said:


> Two months later...here's my update. I sat down one night and tried to talk to my STBX about the situation. It was 8 straight hours of conversation and tears. Before I get to that I guess I should dive a little more into what I had found on her phone most recently, as mentioned previous in this thread. The guys she was talking to dated back to December of last year. She was talking to four guys and they were all online friends that she became friends with. She was having personal text conversations with all of them and had all of them checked as "do not disturb." I assume that even though most of the messages were friendly, she was deleting them because she knew that we had boundaries in our relationship that did not allow us to do that type of stuff. I didn't set that boundary out of control, she set it years ago and we both stuck by it.
> 
> Most of the texts with the other guys were just basic getting to know them and talking about the PUBG game that they play together. One guy did mention that he likes to meet new people when he travels around which I know was his attempt to start that process of meeting her but I will give her the fact that she didn't entertain him when he said that. The one person she was texting that I can't seem to let go, yet can't convince myself was "cheating," is the one she was having with a guy named Chris. Again is was basic talk about each other and even their families but with him I could tell it was more than what it was with the other guys. She was sharing TikTok videos with him, asking about this work day, sending him photos of her dolled up in makeup. He had asked where her husband was and he said what she was doing was risky and she did say this is a risk im willing to take and then he asked what other risks shes willing to take. From what I read she didn't touch on that she just promised to not send him anymore pictures so his wife would not get mad. He then told her he was getting in the shower and not to text after her next reply. I assume that is because he would be around his wife and he was also hiding the relationship. His wife did indeed know about my wife which was a sticking point for my STBX to say it truly was innocent and she knew about her. She knew about my STBX because she was sending her free rewards points from her job but that doesn't mean she knew what was taking place in those text messages because what wife would be? I also can't get over the fact that she was not coming to bed with me for those couple of weeks and when I light heartedly mentioned that I know she's been going to bed at 2-3AM because she wakes me up everytime and that she should just go to bed with me. She claimed that I am asleep when she is done with her teeth and that isn't true and if it was, to me, that should not matter. The truth was she was waiting until I went to bed so she could stay up and text and play PUBG with Chris. I feel stupid, but is this cheating? Is this really that bad? I mean it was sneaky and wrong but was it cheating? It also urkes me that I spent so much time crying to her that she was my person and that something was off and for her to claim it was all good meanwhile she was entertaining other men, even in a friendly capacity, just hurts me. Once she gets caught all of a sudden she regrets that and did it because she didn't feel like I make her a priority but she knows that we belong together and she would do anything to make this work.
> 
> ...


I hate to say it, but your wife is a piece of garbage that needs to be thrown out. I know you said you didn't want advice that is just "screw her!", but sadly that is solid advice in this case. You are 100% the victim. She has absolutely no respect for you in spite of everything she may say. She has never made any real effort to improve. When you catch her in a lie she trickle truths until she gets caught in another lie then she gives a little more. Fire the counselor, there is no benefit coming from that if they see you as anything other than the 1 and only victim in the marriage. The quicker you move on the better for you and your daughter.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

JFC divorce already.

DNA the kid(s).


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## emptyandoverit (Apr 14, 2021)

jlg07 said:


> I just wanted to break down a few points you mentioned and maybe that will help
> 
> 
> This is WAY MORE than her just "being a friend". She WILLFULLY admitted that she was willing to risk her marriage to talk with this guy. That is not being sorrowful -- it is flat out cheating.
> ...


This one right here seriously broke it down for me quite well, thank you so very much for such a great response!


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## emptyandoverit (Apr 14, 2021)

You guys are all right in your responses. JFC I should just divorce already. This isn't my fault. She is garbage. I am looking desperately for someone to tell me we can still work this one out. You guys are all right. That is such a terrible feeling knowing full well I am being disrespected day after day and still dumb enough to think we should work through it. I just had held hope in my heart that this was fixable but in reality it's just not. She is not faithful and will continue to cheat, as she has basically already told me. Last night I lost any feelings of hope.

Wednesday she said she wanted to talk about what our conversation would look like with my child on Thursday that way my STBX could move out on Friday [today] which is her choice and I am happy about it honestly. Anyway she didn't try to talk to me about that she tried begging and pleading for me to stay with her. We never got a dialogue down to present to my child as this was going to be the hardest conversation we would have with her.

Since we did not come up with a dialogue I was unsure of how last night would go. My STBX came home from work and was acting completely normal. No real emotion not friendly but not *****y just asked how I am and such. We had initially agreed to 50/50 custody rotating one week at a time. I knew that would destroy everyone involved because that is a long time away from our child. So I worked with my family and attorney to come up with a better plan for everyone which was for my STBX to have her on Monday/Tuesday and me to have her on Wednesday/Thursday and we rotate weekends. This would allow us to do the exchanges at the school and not see each other. For example my STBX would drop my child off at school Wednesday and I'd pick her up from school since that's my day. This would mean that my child would not go more than 5 days at a time without seeing her mom and dad and it would be easier on her instead of having to try and keep convincing my STBX and I to stay around each other we would just simply pick her up from school when it's our time. Anyway I drafted a two page proposal of this and left it on the bed. You have to break things down Barney style for her so I wanted to make it as easy to understand as possible. I'm getting to the point.

My daughter had beat the dog in a race so she got to have candy. As she was getting her candy I saw my STBX reading the letter. She saw me see her and immediately put it down. She marched right into the livingroom and told my daughter that when she gets her candy mom and dad have to sit down and talk about some things. This threw me off because we had not come up with any kind of plan at all. She CLEARLY had a plan. I'll save the un-needed details of the basic parent to kid talk during divorce but my STBX was leading the charge. She went from not wanting to talk about a plan to having one and not including me in it. One of the biggest talks I will ever have with my child and she excluded me from it. She had clearly been coached by her mother which I am fine with she started off pretty decent.

She had told my child that we would be rotating seeing her every other week. I stopped her and asked did she not read that letter to which she said "I didn't have time." She read it....but didn't have time? You didn't have a plan but now you're in a rush to get the conversation out to her. CRAZY!!! What a piece of ****!!! IT...GETS...WORSE

She told my kid, who kept asking why why why, that "you know how daddy comes home angry sometimes, well that's not always his fault, sometimes it's mine so mommy is going to move in with nana so daddy isn't angry all the time." ARE YOU KIDDING ME!? I was so destroyed to realize in that very moment that everyone was right. This is a worthless woman who is now going to use my child as a pawn against me. I had told my child that we tried our very best to make it work and that mommy was still my best friend and we would still be caring and loving for her the same and in fact we would now be able to focus all of our attention and love on her individually. I told her we will still do things as a family etc. I said it doesn't seem like it now but this is what is best for us to which my child released her hug from me, looked me in my eyes and said "no daddy you're doing what worst for the family." I am so hurt.

However, all of my feelings of guilt, regret, hope, love .... all gone in that very moment. This is now a mission to get this woman out of my life and it starts today. I am writing this from work as her mom and dad prepare to come over and move her the F out of my home!!

Time to live for me. I know I have a long road to go of healing and recovery. I have a lot of lonely nights ahead of me. But on the other side of this I am going to find myself, my true happiness, my actual person in life and I'm going to have such a close relationship with my child and I am so excited for that. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU to everyone on here for these past few months that has given words of encouragement and helped push me to take my life back. You all rock!


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## emptyandoverit (Apr 14, 2021)

and I will continue to keep posting on here so people in the future can also read what my personal healing process is looking like and how going through with the divorce has changed my life and relationships


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

Empty, I'm sorry to say, but amicable divorces are rare gems, for that reason alone, I am sure you will have a lot to write about here. I'm glad you have chosen a path to take your life back and rids you of a wife who doesn't seem fit for the title or role.

Keep strong and one step at a time. Make sure each of them carry you in the direction you need to go.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

You had the absolutely worst marriage counselor for your situation. The bastard should refund your money.

For future reference, when anyone insists on ignoring the elephant in the room, run. Because you'll be the one left to pick up the crap.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Dude: what is it with you? really, for a guy that has spent a big chunk of his life in the military it amazes me to see that you can't see the enemy in front of you. It's painfully obvious that you're slow in the uptake of things.

You need to take your wife as your enemy. You are in a battlefield were the guns have not even began to deploy. So far it's all keying for positions. You need to be proactive not reactive. You have seen nothing yet. Wait until she gets a lawyer and they start to flank you all around. YOU BETTER BE READY because it's coming.

Just editing this because I forgot to mention that as things stand right now, you are your worse enemy.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

jlg07 said:


> I just wanted to break down a few points you mentioned and maybe that will help
> 
> 
> This is WAY MORE than her just "being a friend". She WILLFULLY admitted that she was willing to risk her marriage to talk with this guy. That is not being sorrowful -- it is flat out cheating.
> ...


Great post. Even a heartbroken man that’s been brainwashed by a gaslighting serial cheater should be able to see the truth and set himself free from unimagineable abuse.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Just read the last page. I’m glad you are getting out of this. The further away you get, the clearer your head will be.
Expect that:
You will be vilified by your wife to your daughter. 
There isn’t much good news, however, your wife is such a despicable person, if you are a good dad and treat your daughter right, she will eventually grow up and see her mom for exactly who she is. Your wife will not treat your daughter like you will. She’s incapable. So in spite of the lying which will work for many years and likely be a huge detriment to your relationship with your daughter. Try not to have
Excessive fear about that. Your daughter will eventually see the truth. Just be the best dad you can be and that’s part will work out.

get a good lawyer. You’re going to need one. Your STBXW is particularly bad, even to the point of evil. She has no conscience whatsoever.

very sorry for your pain, but you are clearly doing what’s best for you and your girl.


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## skerzoid (Feb 7, 2017)

Codependency at its purest form. You keep begging for us to give you the magic formula to make this all go away. Nope, there is no magic thing you can do. If someone lost a comrade in combat and was asking you what they could do to bring them back, what would you tell them?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

You got played. Again and again and again. And you were so desperate to hold onto her that you kept rug-sweeping. The truth is that you really wish you could still rug-sweep so you didn’t have to do this. But you do. She’ll probably not through with you yet because you serve a purpose so be prepared for her to try to weasel her way back and for life to go back to what it’s been. Don’t let that happen. Don’t. You need to finally get control of your life and move on.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

One thing here -- YOU need to correct what your wife said to your daughter. TELL her the truth -- Mommy has a boyfriend and isn't supposed to do that when she is married to Daddy. Your wife has already STARTED poisoning your daughter -- you can see in what the D said: "no daddy you're doing what worst for the family." I am so hurt. 

Your wife put that into her head. You absolutely need to get a lawyer, get the child custody figured out ASAP and enforce it. Also, Keep a voice activated recorder on you at all times when your wife is around. I wouldn't put it past her to say you are abusive, etc. (she told YOUR D that "you know how daddy comes home angry sometimes, well that's not always his fault, sometimes it's mine so mommy is going to move in with nana so daddy isn't angry all the time. "

You KNOW she just implanted the idea in your 7 year old that Daddy is angry all the time -- she will now say that "Daddy is angry all the time so Mommy moved out...." BE CAREFUL here, get a shark lawyer and stay aware.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

jlg07 said:


> One thing here -- YOU need to correct what your wife said to your daughter. TELL her the truth -- Mommy has a boyfriend and isn't supposed to do that when she is married to Daddy. Your wife has already STARTED poisoning your daughter -- you can see in what the D said: "no daddy you're doing what worst for the family." I am so hurt.
> 
> Your wife put that into her head. You absolutely need to get a lawyer, get the child custody figured out ASAP and enforce it. Also, Keep a voice activated recorder on you at all times when your wife is around. I wouldn't put it past her to say you are abusive, etc. (she told YOUR D that "you know how daddy comes home angry sometimes, well that's not always his fault, sometimes it's mine so mommy is going to move in with nana so daddy isn't angry all the time. "
> 
> You KNOW she just implanted the idea in your 7 year old that Daddy is angry all the time -- she will now say that "Daddy is angry all the time so Mommy moved out...." BE CAREFUL here, get a shark lawyer and stay aware.


This is the tough part. You really want to say your mommy is a ***** that has has slept with several boy toys and has caught cooties from at least one of them, but sadly that isn't appropriate. You don't want to get your kid stuck in the middle, but there has to be someway to give her the true story.

I really like your idea of "Mommy has a boyfriend and isn't supposed to do that when she is married to Daddy"


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## manowar (Oct 3, 2020)

Openminded said:


> *you serve a purpose*



So what's your purpose? My guess is paying the bills, being put to work (otherwise known as a plow horse), babysitting, doing husband things (cutting the grass, fixing the leaky faucets, getting the cars registered, paying the insurance, etc...) This is great for her so long as you are enslaved. millions of men divorce who have children. Only the chumps stay enslaved. Make her do all the things you do for her. Do you think anyone is going to do that stuff for her?


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

@emptyandoverit, how are things going?


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

jsmart said:


> Divorcing this woman is going to be the beginning of your healing. She’s not wife material. Why a supposedly FWW would go to Vegas for a bachelorette party and not keep you in the loop throughout is beyond me.


If she gave a crap about OP she would have declined to go on the principle of it. I bet she 
hooked up with someone in Vegas too. What happens in Vegas, they bring home to you. The groom better be checking social media and texts to see who the bride did. Be another story soon how bride sucked off striper and bedded him for the night.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

emptyandoverit said:


> You guys are all right in your responses. JFC I should just divorce already. This isn't my fault. She is garbage. I am looking desperately for someone to tell me we can still work this one out. You guys are all right. That is such a terrible feeling knowing full well I am being disrespected day after day and still dumb enough to think we should work through it. I just had held hope in my heart that this was fixable but in reality it's just not. She is not faithful and will continue to cheat, as she has basically already told me. Last night I lost any feelings of hope.
> 
> Wednesday she said she wanted to talk about what our conversation would look like with my child on Thursday that way my STBX could move out on Friday [today] which is her choice and I am happy about it honestly. Anyway she didn't try to talk to me about that she tried begging and pleading for me to stay with her. We never got a dialogue down to present to my child as this was going to be the hardest conversation we would have with her.
> 
> ...


That is when you tell the child age appropriately....when 2 people are married, they are not supposed to have a boyfriend or girlfriend. Daddy is angry because mommy has boyfriends and that hurts daddy. That is why daddy and mommy cant live together anymore.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I would let her go. She sounds quite useless. Like a child who never grew up. What she actually needs is to live on her own and have to support herself and take care of everything herself and grow up. But this is who she is, a lazy wife and a cheater. I would definitely think you can do better. And it's great she's not trying to ruin you if you divorce, so take advantage of that.


Holy smokes! I didn’t think you had it in you River! Bravo! I agree!!!


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

There’s not one reason to think about saving this marriage.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Only you can make yourself a chump. Advice is worthless unless you use it.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Blondilocks said:


> You had the absolutely worst marriage counselor for your situation. The bastard should refund your money.
> 
> For future reference, when anyone insists on ignoring the elephant in the room, run. Because you'll be the one left to pick up the crap.


He was warned MC’s were mainly rugsweepers but ignored it anyway.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

You allowed her to explain it that way to your child? Why didn’t you put an end to that biased conversation? 

I’d sit your child down in front of your wife and explain that when people are married - they sometimes divorce because the mommy isn’t supposed to have a boyfriend and you find it unacceptable. 
Also explain you love your child and that will never end - even though the marriage will.

Place the blame right back into your wife’s lap!


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## ArthurGPym (Jun 28, 2021)

So did your divorce go through?


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Hasn't been on in 2+ months. Many threads go this route. Hopefully he will be back.

These threads always remind me of @unbe and his five year journey. Kept getting sound

advice and would disappear. Come back months later, same thing just the dates were different.

2013 to 2017.... it took him four rounds to get it. Ended up with a pothead who worked retail.

Then crickets.... Hopefully OP will return soon with positive posts


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## emptyandoverit (Apr 14, 2021)

Thank you to everyone who has commented and/or been interested in an update. I will try to respond to all of the recent posts with this one as well as give my update, which I wanted to wait to give until this was finalized. For starters, I actually have been active on here I just have not been logged in to my account. Someone else mentioned that I was told "most marriage counselors rug sweep and he didn't listen." That comment wasn't fair. "Most" most certainly doesn't imply all. Secondly, while I take in and appreciate all of the advice I've been given on here, I'm not going to take that comment and completely ditch any possible efforts to keep my marriage and family together. I gave it a shot, and he was a rugsweeper, but I do not regret trying. I'm actually proud to say that I literally did everything I could have done to save my marriage.

I did not and will not explain to my 7 year old daughter that her mom has a "boyfriend." That was appreciated advice, but I can't do that. I'd be just as guilty as her mother if I were to paint her in that light and make her think less of her mom. She will figure this out on her own one day. My job is to continue to be the best father I can be no matter what BS my STBX throws at me. The idea isn't to point a finger at one another to make the child understand. The finger was pointed at me and then I had to do damage control, which I did. I did not know that my STBX was going to tell her that we are divorcing because "daddy is angry all the time." I was in complete shock. I have since spoken to my daughter on a couple of occasions about this and I asked her, "do you agree that daddy is angry all the time?" and she confidently responded "no." Because I'm not. So I then went on to explain to her that sometimes people do not agree on things. I explained to her that mom and dad still love each other, and we tried hard to make things work and stay in the same home, but we realized we are happier and healthier when we are not together. I don't honestly know what she truly feels about it, but she isn't acting any differently and I am not going to pry further if she is seemingly fine and that was at the guidance of my required parenting class instructor.

I asked my STBX about 6 weeks ago to come to the lawyer with me so we can come up with a division of property, custody etc. She spent the entire time crying and begging me to stay with her. So I pushed forward with the process while still trying to be friendly with her. I love her and I can be friends with her but she can't. It's either we are going to fix this or you are my enemy. I'll explain. She spent the last 4-5 weeks sending me super long messages saying how sorry she is, how much she has changed, how she realizes she should have been doing more to help, how much she loves me etc. etc. I tried at first to respond to most of them but it would take me so long to do so and it felt like I was having to tell her over and over again that this is over and that was hard. So a lot of her messages I read but did not respond to. That made her angry. She would change her "stance" on things and get ugly. Saying things like "I'm not using your attorney I don't trust you to not screw me over." Which just confused me because I am literally doing nothing to show that I am the one screwing anyone over and also how can you say you love me so much but at the same time say you don't trust me not to screw you over? It made me realize, just as what has been told to me on this thread, that she is seriously only after what I provide. Not who I am. It disgusted me.

I'll save some of the smaller incidents to keep this somewhat short and move on to more recent times. She ended up getting served and I guess she wasn't home so the server went to her job and she was really mad and reasonably embarrassed by this. She said she felt like the paperwork wasn't fair and that I was trying to take her parental rights. I told her I truly am not and to please tell me or the attorney what the issues are so we can change them and she ignored it. She did, however, turn up her efforts in getting me to take her back. She knew that if she invited me to enough things when she had custody of my daughter, I couldn't keep saying no and that was how she got me to hangout with her twice, she used the kid. I think this made her think she was getting me back because I was able to be around her and be happy. But I was there for my child. Here's what brings us up to date on the crap show that is this divorce.

One night my daughter was planning a sleepover at the neighbors and my STBX knew that. Late in the night she messaged me when she knew my daughter was gone and asked if she could come see me and have one more night where she could pretend everything was ok. We had a long back and forth with me trying to explain to her how unhealthy and unfair that was to both of us and she eventually said something to the effect of, "that's my house too and I shouldn't have to beg to see my husband. I am coming over right now and you can go in the bedroom and make this awkward if you want or you can do what I want and come watch a movie on the couch with me." I couldn't believe it. Mind you we are living in her family's city. My family is over an hour away and I have nowhere else to go. That on top of the fact I have custody of my child who is next door and it's 11pm. The only thing that stopped her from coming over was me lying and saying my sister was on the way because she knows my sister (also a veteran) will knock her into next week. She said I was overreacting and trying to make her seem crazy. She is crazy. She told me the next morning that she, I'll just say "groomed" for no reason and is changing her stance on everything. She went from wanting nothing to wanting almost everything. I told her I knew that was her intention but I still couldn't believe she was changing her entire mindset because I would not have sex with her. I then realized that in actuality it wasn't that I didn't have sex with her. This was her intention the entire time and it was coming out regardless if I didn't reconcile with her. I tried telling her that when she moved out she stopped paying the mortgage, the utilities, the insurances, pet care, child care etc. and I calculated that to be almost $9,000 I was solely responsible for. That, plus the hot water pipe busted and flooded the basement, I paid for that. The furnace went out, that was $5,500 and I paid all of that too. And now you have the audacity to say you deserve equity from the home? She told me that I was a big boy and took on all of that debt running away from my family. I responded saying I took on that debt running away from an unfaithful woman and she said, "that was 4 years ago, stay mad." I guess forgetting she just cheated again in 2021 lol I just told her that I am glad her true colors are showing and that I knew her "changes" were all smoke and mirrors. She begged and pleaded for me to forgive her and said that she said those things out of anger and she doesn't want to take a single thing from me and that she has changed and just slipped up. I still didn't reconcile.

She had 4 days left to respond to the served paperwork and I get an email from my lawyer saying that she retained counsel and that now we had to prepare for a much longer divorce process with my first court date being the first week of November. I messaged her asking WTF did you get a lawyer for when I told you I would change everything you need me to change? She sent a long message about needing to protect herself and make sure she gets what is fair but at the same time if I wanted to meet with her and just talk and maybe try to see if we can still fix this she is willing. I'm like....are you seriously this crazy? You are seriously this one side or the other? No middle ground at all for just an amicable friendly divorce?

I had to rush to get into parenting classes to satisfy the court because she waited so long to respond. I had to track down so much freaking paperwork for her and my entire life is about to be laid out for the eyes of jerks who don't need to see it in the first place. I have nothing to hide but the fact that I now had to provide years of tax returns, pay stubs, TSP statements, the deed to my home, my debit and credit card statements ALL because she didn't want to use one attorney and would rather fight me. It's unreal.

We haven't spoken in almost a week and she won't even respond when I message her about something related to my child. Which tells me she probably found another guy, which good for her. I'm just sad and frustrated but trying to just get this over with so I can assess the damage and recover. As long as I have my child, and hopefully my dog, I'll be fine. As far as how I am personally feeling, I go through a lot of ups and downs. Moments of really feeling like I am happy and feel confident I did the right thing and other moments I go through really really dark and ugly struggles that are especially bad when I don't have my daughter. I know that this is part of the process though and in reality these feelings will go away and I am truly doing the right thing. She has proven that time and time again. Thanks again for everyone that has read these posts or provided some type of advice. I will again come back and give an update when I have more. Court is in two weeks.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Hi emptyandoverit,
Thanks for coming back to update, I'm glad to hear you and your daughter are doing well. One question, you mentioned you have custody of your daughter, do you have 100% or joint custody?

I think you're making a huge mistake to not tell your daughter why you're getting divorced in an age-appropriate way. My bf tried to "take the high road" and is completely alienated from both his children now. His teenage son did a complete about-face when he asked his dad why he left (his wife cheated on him and married the AP 2 months after the divorce, but there was no DD). 

Anyway, his ex filled her children's heads with her own version of the truth and he has no idea when/if he'll be able to have any kind of relationship with them again. They're also on depression meds and his son has been in and out of a mental health clinic since that confrontation got ugly on all fronts. 

Your exW is already filling your daughter's head with nonsense and downplaying her role in your divorce. "We're divorcing b/c our daddy is mad"? WTF! I think you're being way too nice here and you're paving the road to get royally screwed over in the long run. What does your therapist think of you hiding the truth from your daughter? How do you think your daughter will feel one day when she finds out the truth after being lied to?


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## emptyandoverit (Apr 14, 2021)

TXTrini said:


> Hi emptyandoverit,
> Thanks for coming back to update, I'm glad to hear you and your daughter are doing well. One question, you mentioned you have custody of your daughter, do you have 100% or joint custody?
> 
> I think you're making a huge mistake to not tell your daughter why you're getting divorced in an age-appropriate way. My bf tried to "take the high road" and is completely alienated from both his children now. His teenage son did a complete about-face when he asked his dad why he left (his wife cheated on him and married the AP 2 months after the divorce, but there was no DD).
> ...


I completely understand where you are coming from and appreciate your response and you sharing your story. I actually do not have a therapist for this, the advice I was given came from the instructor of these required parenting courses that teach about how your child could react to a divorce and how to co-parent properly etc. She agreed that I should not tell my daughter that we are divorcing because her mom brought other men into the relationship. I know you said keep it age appropriate, but how would you appropriately tell someone who doesn't truly understand the dynamics of what an adult relationship is, why mine failed? I think that would add confusion. Additionally, I would be more willing to have that conversation with her if the issue kept being pressed, it hasn't. It is probably in her mind that we potentially did breakup because of my anger, which again my daughter agrees she doesn't see, but she isn't acting any differently towards me, her friends, her schooling has not been affected, she seems like things are fine. She doesn't question why we can't all live together anymore and she doesn't relay anything negative to me that her mom might be saying. I also agree that I may be setting myself up to get railroaded, but I think this is a situation I need to be reactive on, not really proactive. If my STBX continues bashing me, and my child brings it up, I am not going to just let her mom continue to be the "good" person. I will continue to show my child that her mother is wrong through my actions. If she gets to an age where I think she could handle the information, and is curious, I will eventually share this with her. I just can't see any reason to tell a 7 year old about adultery, I can't barney style that conversation. Thanks for the reply!


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## Galabar01 (Mar 20, 2019)

emptyandoverit said:


> I completely understand where you are coming from and appreciate your response and you sharing your story. I actually do not have a therapist for this, the advice I was given came from the instructor of these required parenting courses that teach about how your child could react to a divorce and how to co-parent properly etc. She agreed that I should not tell my daughter that we are divorcing because her mom brought other men into the relationship. I know you said keep it age appropriate, but how would you appropriately tell someone who doesn't truly understand the dynamics of what an adult relationship is, why mine failed? I think that would add confusion. Additionally, I would be more willing to have that conversation with her if the issue kept being pressed, it hasn't. It is probably in her mind that we potentially did breakup because of my anger, which again my daughter agrees she doesn't see, but she isn't acting any differently towards me, her friends, her schooling has not been affected, she seems like things are fine. She doesn't question why we can't all live together anymore and she doesn't relay anything negative to me that her mom might be saying. I also agree that I may be setting myself up to get railroaded, but I think this is a situation I need to be reactive on, not really proactive. If my STBX continues bashing me, and my child brings it up, I am not going to just let her mom continue to be the "good" person. I will continue to show my child that her mother is wrong through my actions. If she gets to an age where I think she could handle the information, and is curious, I will eventually share this with her. I just can't see any reason to tell a 7 year old about adultery, I can't barney style that conversation. Thanks for the reply!


You seem to be doing extremely well, given the circumstances. Good luck to you.

Also, I think you are doing a great job with your daughter. When she eventually finds out, she'll know that you were a good person trying to protect her.


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## emptyandoverit (Apr 14, 2021)

TXTrini said:


> Hi emptyandoverit,
> Thanks for coming back to update, I'm glad to hear you and your daughter are doing well. One question, you mentioned you have custody of your daughter, do you have 100% or joint custody?
> 
> I think you're making a huge mistake to not tell your daughter why you're getting divorced in an age-appropriate way. My bf tried to "take the high road" and is completely alienated from both his children now. His teenage son did a complete about-face when he asked his dad why he left (his wife cheated on him and married the AP 2 months after the divorce, but there was no DD).
> ...


I forgot to answer your question. I do not have full custody of my child, I shouldn't have worded it like that I suppose. What I meant was I had custody of her at the time, like it was my day. We are on a 2-2-3 schedule with 50/50 joint legal and physical custody which I will say that I proposed and my STBX has stuck by. I do not know, though, if she is sneaking behind my back with her lawyer to ask for more come our court date. Who really knows. Funny I said I'm pretty sure she has a boyfriend, I guess I was wrong because I got a text from her 5 minutes ago apologizing for not responding in a week and asking could we have one last face to face conversation. Soooo yeah I guess the rollercoaster continues.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

emptyandoverit said:


> This reply was a bit aggressive, but I can see why people would be frustrated seeing what I allow myself to endure. But to answer your question, no she didn’t. We didn’t kiss or have sex or anything because she said, at the time, the love was gone and we’d have to work to get it back before being sexual. Which is just another detail that, looking back on, really f’s with me. I got the tables turned on me and she became the victim. I was the one that needed to do the fixing.











🤷🏻‍♂️😆


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## emptyandoverit (Apr 14, 2021)

Galabar01 said:


> You seem to be doing extremely well, given the circumstances. Good luck to you.
> 
> Also, I think you are doing a great job with your daughter. When she eventually finds out, she'll know that you were a good person trying to protect her.


Thank you very much for your kind reply


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

emptyandoverit said:


> I completely understand where you are coming from and appreciate your response and you sharing your story. I actually do not have a therapist for this, the advice I was given came from the instructor of these required parenting courses that teach about how your child could react to a divorce and how to co-parent properly etc. She agreed that I should not tell my daughter that we are divorcing because her mom brought other men into the relationship. I know you said keep it age appropriate, but how would you appropriately tell someone who doesn't truly understand the dynamics of what an adult relationship is, why mine failed? I think that would add confusion. Additionally, I would be more willing to have that conversation with her if the issue kept being pressed, it hasn't. It is probably in her mind that we potentially did breakup because of my anger, which again my daughter agrees she doesn't see, but she isn't acting any differently towards me, her friends, her schooling has not been affected, she seems like things are fine. She doesn't question why we can't all live together anymore and she doesn't relay anything negative to me that her mom might be saying. I also agree that I may be setting myself up to get railroaded, but I think this is a situation I need to be reactive on, not really proactive. If my STBX continues bashing me, and my child brings it up, I am not going to just let her mom continue to be the "good" person. I will continue to show my child that her mother is wrong through my actions. If she gets to an age where I think she could handle the information, and is curious, I will eventually share this with her. I just can't see any reason to tell a 7 year old about adultery, I can't barney style that conversation. Thanks for the reply!


I wish I had answers for you, man, but I'm not a parent. However, there are definitely others who've dealt with similar situations and hopefully one of them will come along with advice. You can also start a thread asking for help for that specific scenario for a quicker response.

My bf thought along the same lines, wanting to preserve what was left of their childhood, I think the only thing that could have made the difference for him is if his children knew the truth from the getgo. Bear in mind, as a girl, your daughter may naturally grow closer to your wife, and model her own personality and behavior on her mother's, since she won't know any better.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Stop having conversations with her.

Stop rationalizing your answers — especially your no’s — to her.

If she doesn’t respond to texts that should warrant a response, stop sending them.

Document, document, document.

And while I get not wanting to explain that Mommy cheated — even in a kid-friendly way — to a 7-year-old, the idea that doing so would somehow make you “just as bad as her” is ludicrous.

Re-read NMMNG ASAP.

ETA: I get that now might not be the right time to explain why you’re divorcing to your daughter, and I (mostly) agree. At some point, though, that conversation needs to happen. Definitely by the time she starts dating herself. By then she’ll likely have had plenty of opportunities to see Mommy treat personal responsibility/accountability as some sort of anathema and everything will just sort of click into place for her. Sort of like an “aha” moment.


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