# Chumplady UBT: “I Made a Terrible Mistake”



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

_To be honest I do feel a bit of sympathy for this letter writer...thoughts?_

____________________________________________

UBT: “I Made a Terrible Mistake”

April 22, 2016 by @chumplady

I get some weird mail. But perhaps none so weird as this letter sent to my Universal Bull**** Translator by John — a cheater. Yes, probably inadvertently, John has asked me to decode his own bull****.

Here’s the letter:

*Maybe you should focus a little more at actually responding and helping people a little more. My wife comes here and is encouraged to leave me. Listen! Some guys are and will always be *******s! They say they’ll change and everyone knows they give 2 weeks of effort and then it’s back to their old self. Whether it be alcohol, drugs, abuse or whatever. But there are SOME who actually go out, seek counseling, find out why they are acting why they are acting (because they love their wife and kids), find medication, change their lifestyle and change for the better forever. And we would all agree after a few months you know if you’re dealing with the same person or not.

I have multiple kids with my wife and yes I made a terrible mistake. But I went and did everything in my power. And things were going very well!! Until one day, right before we are supposed to move she says, “You’re not coming with us, I can’t get over it.” Meanwhile telling our counselor and our families how great it’s going, BECAUSE IT IS GOING GREAT! but turns out she turns to this site and is encouraged to “run away!!” Sorry ladies but not all of us are the same. Some of us actually love our wives. Some of us actually want to change and do! This website may have done more damage than was already done. Meanwhile I sit in an empty house, no wife, no kids, and change my career to be home more for the family and for my wife so now I don’t have enough capital to even afford my own place.

I did all I could to right the wrong. I truly love my wife. And I will never stop. Maybe someone will one day open her eyes back to the fact that I am the person she married and I lost my way. Thanks again!*

Let’s UBT that:
*
Maybe you should focus a little more at actually responding and helping people a little more. My wife comes here and is encouraged to leave me.*

Dude, the banner says “Leave a Cheater, Gain a Life.”

UBT: The problem isn’t my cheating, the problem is your advice.

*Listen! Some guys are and will always be *******s! They say they’ll change and everyone knows they give 2 weeks of effort and then it’s back to their old self.*

I’m different! I’m not one of those Bad Cheaters! Unlike an *******, I love my wife!

Why put in two weeks of effort when mind****ery is so much more effective?

(read the rest here)


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

She must infuriate these cheaters with the way she picks them apart.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Maxo said:


> She must infuriate these cheaters with the way she picks them apart.


She does...I do feel a bit of sympathy and I mean a tiny bit for this WH..but the lesson is an affair can be a deal breaker at ANYTIME during R...when you cheat you go downa dark alley where anything can happen..ANYTHING


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

Truthseeker1 said:


> She does...I do feel a bit of sympathy and I mean a tiny bit for this WH..but the lesson is an affair can be a deal breaker at ANYTIME during R...when you cheat you go downa dark alley where anything can happen..ANYTHING


Unless you have a doormat BS with his or her head up the ass.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> She does...I do feel a bit of sympathy and I mean a tiny bit for this WH..but the lesson is an affair can be a deal breaker at ANYTIME during R...when you cheat you go downa dark alley where anything can happen..ANYTHING


Well I guess I read the BS actions a different way. They were never in an R situation. The BS bought time, played the game and got things set up her herself and kids, when she was ready she left. Nobody decided at the very last moment they "can't get over it."

Obviously I don't know the whole story but it sounds like a BS who came up with an exit strategy and excuted it. She she lie and decieve doing it yes but then didn't the WS do the same having an affair. Every gets revenge in there own way so I don't have much sympathy for the guy sitting all alone in the dark blaming some lady on the Internet for his marriage suddenly crashing.


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## WhyMe66 (Mar 25, 2016)

(read the rest here)

I would love for my STBXW post her bullstien on that page-have it ripped to shyte!!!

Yes, a little angry...


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Maxo said:


> Unless you have a doormat BS with his or her head up the ass.


There are a lot of those in this world. Threads full of BS who R out of fear and not strength. IMO if you R out of fear its not a real R but a permanent limbo - where the BS is never really comfortable in the marriage again and the WS goes about their life knowng they got a free pass. Look at SI you have an army of such folks and its sad - when a BS is stuck like that with a spouse who had multiple PA, a PA in the house, etc and it doesn't motivate them end the whole deal absolutely nothing will.I've read cases where the spouse was fvcking the affair partner in the home and then berated the BS for not getting over it soon enough and getting back to being a "normal couple" - if there ever was a case for not looking back that is it.



honcho said:


> Well I guess I read the BS actions a different way. They were never in an R situation. The BS bought time, played the game and got things set up her herself and kids, when she was ready she left. Nobody decided at the very last moment they "can't get over it."
> 
> Obviously I don't know the whole story but it sounds like a BS who came up with an exit strategy and excuted it. She she lie and decieve doing it yes but then didn't the WS do the same having an affair. Every gets revenge in there own way so I don't have much sympathy for the guy sitting all alone in the dark blaming some lady on the Internet for his marriage suddenly crashing.


That is quite possible. To be clear I don't fault the BW in this case at all - she did what she needed to do for herself and her kids. I do think the BH is showing some red flags when I reread it - one by referring to it as a mistake and two by blaming chumplady's advice and not his affair as the catalyst for his wife dumping him. It's not a mistake its a choice - period. Also he needs to focus the blame for the dissolution of this marriage where it belongs 100% on himself and his affair. WS in most case don't really care - they are willing to rugsweept or are out the door leaving a mess to be cleaned up- if he does truly care then he needs to work on making himself a better man. At this point that is all he has control over. Somehow he doesn't full get it yet.



WhyMe66 said:


> (read the rest here)
> 
> I would love for my STBXW post her bullstien on that page-have it ripped to shyte!!!
> 
> Yes, a little angry...


Chumplady does have a way of ripping cheater speak to sh!t doesn't she? > I think in a lot of cases and understandably so the BS wants desperately to believe the flowery words of their cheating spouse but CL is able to decode the true meaning of those words. She is cheater-kryptonite isnt she?


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## WhyMe66 (Mar 25, 2016)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Chumplady does have a way of ripping cheater speak to sh!t doesn't she? > I think in a lot of cases and understandably so the BS wants desperately to believe the flowery words of their cheating spouse but CL is able to decode the true meaning of those words. She is cheater-kryptonite isnt she?


Oh, absolutely!!!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

However if the BW actually DID lie to their counsellor about their recovery and if she by extension lied to their children about the situation -or kept them in the dark about their father and only told them at the last minute that their father wouldn't be moving with them, then his BW's actions might be problematic.

They might even result in her getting herself in some kind of legal problems.

However it does depend on exactly what extent his betrayal went to. Sometimes people do things that are unforgivable.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rzmpf (Mar 11, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> However if the BW actually DID lie to their counsellor about their recovery and if she by extension lied to their children about the situation -or kept them in the dark about their father and only told them at the last minute that their father wouldn't be moving with them, then his BW's actions might be problematic.


Yep I can understand that someone is pissed when you are told that everything is going fine and you change your work to accommodate your family's needs and then everything goes bust. 

But this dude does not even go that way, he thinks that everything WAS fine till his wife read on the internet that she should leave him.

Which is just taking blame away from him, it's not his cheating that drove his wife away, it's the evil internet page. So you can see that the progress he claims to have made and how he is owning his mistake is all just BS.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

Truthseeker1 said:


> But there are SOME who actually go out, seek counseling, find out why they are acting why they are acting (because they love their wife and kids), find medication, change their lifestyle and change for the better forever. And we would all agree after a few months you know if you’re dealing with the same person or not.


You get forgiven when you demonstrate you can unbreak an egg.

You think things were going great, when clearly they were not; so clearly the communication had lapsed.

A no, we wouldn't agree after a few months. A few years perhaps.

What the letter writer fails to understand, is what many people here do understand. That life is too short too worry about stupid games, betrayls, and cohabitating with destructive people - even those of us who believe in reincarnation know we only get one shot as -this- lifetime, and we never know when it will be over (for either party).
The letter writer is still derive his happiness, his marriedness, from his wife. He is doing things "for her", he is changing to be better "for her"; why should she carry that weight of the relationship around because of his mistake?
One proves one is a new person when one gets on with a better life, not in a few months. When he can stand on his on feet, not codependency.

I have sympathy for his pain, but not for his learning opportunity.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

WhyMe66 said:


> Oh, absolutely!!!


Her UBT colums are my favorites. It takes the cheaters own words and then dissects them. This was a really good idea for a column.



rzmpf said:


> Yep I can understand that someone is pissed when you are told that everything is going fine and you change your work to accommodate your family's needs and then everything goes bust.
> 
> *But this dude does not even go that way, he thinks that everything WAS fine till his wife read on the internet that she should leave him.*
> 
> Which is just taking blame away from him, it's not his cheating that drove his wife away, it's the evil internet page. So you can see that the progress he claims to have made and how he is owning his mistake is all just BS.


I agree 100% this WH did not do his reading or ever hear of the roller coaster. He thought R was going smoothly until the "wicked" chumplady showed up. Hogwash. If he had bothered to do ANY research he would realize R was not a straight path at all but one with setbacks and yes even disasters. He is still looking to put the blame elsehwere for his failed R and that is not a good sign as to his own progress and becoming a safe partner.



spotthedeaddog said:


> You get forgiven when you demonstrate you can unbreak an egg.
> 
> You think things were going great, when clearly they were not; so clearly the communication had lapsed.
> 
> ...


The BH also didn't realize that his wife still has the option of simply changing her mind. Period. At some point despite feeling good at times she decided enough was enough and wanted out. I think he thought once they passed a certain point n R he was home free...WRONG.He is impatient and a bit selfish here.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> However if the BW actually DID lie to their counsellor about their recovery and if she by extension lied to their children about the situation -or kept them in the dark about their father and only told them at the last minute that their father wouldn't be moving with them, then his BW's actions might be problematic.
> 
> They might even result in her getting herself in some kind of legal problems.
> 
> ...


 @MattMatt she could have simply changed her mind..period and figured that he still was not safe enough to start a new life with..and by blaming chumplady he showed his wife might be right. I'd love to hear her reasoning for this decision.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

So many things bother me about that letter. Can anyone really be THAT narcissistic that they are congratulating themselves for everything positive they've done to improve themselves after betraying their spouse, while simultaneously blaming anything that went wrong on their wife/Chumplady's site? He seems genuinely confused and angry that after putting in some time in counseling and making a job change, his wife might STILL be capable of leaving him for the mess he created in the first place. Was also really frustrated for her by his attitude to her it's-going-great facade for her family. Very few people spill the mess that is their lives to their nearest and dearest in installments. Maybe it was going great, but the hurt and betrayal just became too much and she decided she couldn't let go or didn't really know him. S*%& for all we know he chit chatted with his AP after NC and messed it up himself. The everything-is-someone-else's-fault bravado is what pi*^es me off the most, I think.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

joannacroc said:


> So many things bother me about that letter. Can anyone really be THAT narcissistic that they are congratulating themselves for everything positive they've done to improve themselves after betraying their spouse, while simultaneously blaming anything that went wrong on their wife/Chumplady's site? He seems genuinely confused and angry that after putting in some time in counseling and making a job change, his wife might STILL be capable of leaving him for the mess he created in the first place. Was also really frustrated for her by his attitude to her it's-going-great facade for her family. Very few people spill the mess that is their lives to their nearest and dearest in installments. Maybe it was going great, but the hurt and betrayal just became too much and she decided she couldn't let go or didn't really know him. S*%& for all we know he chit chatted with his AP after NC and messed it up himself. The everything-is-someone-else's-fault bravado is what pi*^es me off the most, I think.


I do think the WH who wrote the letter actually thought once his wife agreed to R and it went alright for a bit - he was home free. Well he got a real shock - didn't he? His letter does show that he has not researched infidelity or he would have realized it takes a long time to recover. I do hope he continues to work on himself.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Even the title of his letter shows an utter lack of understanding about what he actually did. His cheating was not a "mistake" Burning the toast is a mistake; mis-buttoning your shirt is a mistake. Cheating on your spouse takes a concerted effort and deliberate thought. Maybe the mistake is ignoring or disregarding the consequences of those deliberate efforts. Maybe his mistake was getting caught, or underestimating the need for his wife to have a life partner whose judgment she could trust.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

I don't feel bad for him. He did a few things he thought he was supposed to to make it better and is blaming someone else for the results of HIS actions. I think the best reply from the thread of discussions was this (and it really explained how cheating changes someone):

"You know what? I was a REALLY NICE wife. Really nice. And my husband did his “mistake” while I was pregnant with our daughter seven years ago. What has happened since? Counseling, and a whole bunch of “blah blah blah” changes. Truth is, I suspect I have a Unicorn. And guess what? I don’t really care. His Unicorness doesnt take it away and it has haunted me. I tried to spackle. I tried to encourage. I tried to go back to nice wife. It’s changed everything. 

So while I am HERE and I even have our son due any day now…… I still love my husband, but it will never be the nice, naive, trusting kind of love it was EVER. He didn’t “lose his way” and find himself in a vagina. He plotted a specific course or allowed himself to be led there. Sure, he changed. But so did I. *I found out I wasn’t special to him at all, and that I am special to me*. What can I say. 

I’m “happy enough” with the marriage. I’m not rushing toward the door. I have my Plan B in my back pocket. Lord help him if he cheats again. He won’t see anything I do coming. But he SHOWED ME very clearly that I can’t expect better from him. Maybe, over time my feelings will change, maaaaaybbbbeeee the sustained, sweet love and passion will return. But if I had realized seven years ago how very long a marriage can run and how very deep the scarring would be, I don’t believe I would have bothered. There’s a very good chance I could have divorced, moved on and remarried someone I could trust by now. 

I am glad John’s wife realizes she can’t get past it and doesn’t spend the next seven years wondering EVERY DAY if she has made or is making the right decision about staying with John, who can “get lost in the way home.” Good for John for doing some examination of himself, but that journey seems to be very much at the start, not the conclusion. I highly suspect if he is genuine and doesn’t deviate from becoming a better mate AND doesn’t pressure his spouse, he will most likely end up with a healthy relationship. But this blog can’t decide that for him. Nor is this blog FOR HIM. But hey, if he hadn’t done a real nasty deal to his wife, odds are, SHE WOULD NOT HAVE COME HERE. 

If John would have gone straight home instead of straight for OW, his wife would be by him, with their kids (and all of his money), never knowing what a “Chump Lady” was or what RIC stood for. So whereas John feels the ‘sting of loss’ by outright throwing his family away with both hands (and his ****); his wife gets to feel absolutely robbed of a faithful husband, the dream of her family, and she gets go feel that ****-stain on her self-esteem that we chumps know all too well. 

John says he’s loves his wife. My husband says the same thing. I really have to know before I die, what the **** does that mean? What the **** does “I love you” really mean when it comes from a man that acts like a Vagina Collection Agent? Or a woman that is a **** Landfill? What the Hell is “Love” from these people? Nice feelings? Usefulness? Willingness to go to counseling to get their spouse to shut up? To me love is sacred. *To people that cheat, it just sounds like a buzzword to me.*"

I mean, I love that reply so much I want to applaud. 
:smnotworthy:


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

EnjoliWoman said:


> "John says he’s loves his wife. My husband says the same thing. I really have to know before I die, what the **** does that mean? What the **** does “I love you” really mean when it comes from a man that acts like a Vagina Collection Agent? Or a woman that is a **** Landfill? What the Hell is “Love” from these people? Nice feelings? Usefulness? Willingness to go to counseling to get their spouse to shut up? To me love is sacred. *To people that cheat, it just sounds like a buzzword to me.*"
> 
> I mean, I love that reply so much I want to applaud.


This part especially. While they are more than capable of experiencing lust, they don't know what REAL love is. That's why I always infer cheaters have sociopathic tendencies. They don't understand the difference. Many of them are incapable of the latter. Except maybe with themselves.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

BetrayedDad said:


> This part especially. While they are more than capable of experiencing lust, they don't know what REAL love is. That's why I always infer cheaters have sociopathic tendencies. They don't understand the difference. Many of them are incapable of the latter. Except maybe with themselves.



While MY favorite part that stood out to me was this:
"I found out I wasn’t special to him at all, and that I am special to me. What can I say."

While never having been cheated on to my knowledge, I totally get that. That's how I felt about my narc ex in our marriage. But I AM special enough to ME to not tolerate that kind of relationship anymore.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

joannacroc said:


> So many things bother me about that letter. Can anyone really be THAT narcissistic that they are congratulating themselves for everything positive they've done to improve themselves after betraying their spouse, while simultaneously blaming anything that went wrong on their wife/Chumplady's site? He seems genuinely confused and angry that after putting in some time in counseling and making a job change, his wife might STILL be capable of leaving him for the mess he created in the first place. Was also really frustrated for her by his attitude to her it's-going-great facade for her family. Very few people spill the mess that is their lives to their nearest and dearest in installments. Maybe it was going great, but the hurt and betrayal just became too much and she decided she couldn't let go or didn't really know him. S*%& for all we know he chit chatted with his AP after NC and messed it up himself. The everything-is-someone-else's-fault bravado is what pi*^es me off the most, I think.


This depends on what she said whenever he did do something "good".

And what she told the counsellor.

And what she told the children.

Because if (and I say *if*) she lied to the children "Sure your father is coming with us, kids!" and then says to the children: "But not really!" then I would have a loss of sympathy for her.

Unless, of course, WS is full of it and the children were egging their mother on to divorce him and to abandon him?

We would really need to hear from the BS here to have a better understanding of the true situation.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Pluto2 said:


> Even the title of his letter shows an utter lack of understanding about what he actually did. His cheating was not a "mistake" Burning the toast is a mistake; mis-buttoning your shirt is a mistake. Cheating on your spouse takes a concerted effort and deliberate thought. Maybe the mistake is ignoring or disregarding the consequences of those deliberate efforts. Maybe his mistake was getting caught, or underestimating the need for his wife to have a life partner whose judgment she could trust.


*I agree 100% - when a cheater uses the word mistake that is a red flag. Cheating does take a concerted effort and an incredible amount of selfishness and indifference to the consequences of ones actions. His mistake was thinking that even if he did the right things he'd get his wife back. Not only do cheaters not care about the consequences for their spouse but their kids as well - because kids get damaged too but cheaters dont care. Any person who breaks up their family due to cheating is a special kind of [email protected]*



EnjoliWoman said:


> I don't feel bad for him. He did a few things he thought he was supposed to to make it better and is blaming someone else for the results of HIS actions. I think the best reply from the thread of discussions was this (and it really explained how cheating changes someone):
> 
> "You know what? I was a REALLY NICE wife. Really nice. And my husband did his “mistake” while I was pregnant with our daughter seven years ago. What has happened since? Counseling, and a whole bunch of “blah blah blah” changes. Truth is, I suspect I have a Unicorn. And guess what? I don’t really care. His Unicorness doesnt take it away and it has haunted me. I tried to spackle. I tried to encourage. I tried to go back to nice wife. It’s changed everything.
> 
> ...


*What struck me is her use of the term "happy enough". I think many if not most who R with a cheater are "happy enough" and tell themselves life is not perfect, no one is perfect, this is the devil I know etc.When you look across the table at night during dinner you see a person who is capable of betraying you in the most vile, despicable way possible and now you are supposed to smile and move on? I've read enough infidelity stories and SEEN enough to know after such a transgression it is not the same - EVER - the cheating is a shadow in the background forever. I get that some people stay for money, kids, etc but in the back of their minds they know they are sharing the bed with a traitor who can never be fully trusted again. *



BetrayedDad said:


> This part especially. While they are more than capable of experiencing lust, they don't know what REAL love is. That's why I always infer cheaters have sociopathic tendencies. They don't understand the difference. Many of them are incapable of the latter. Except maybe with themselves.


*
Cheaters who get caught and either stay or leave have one goal - to get away with it. Period. They show a depraved indifference to the well being of their spouse and children all for their own tawdry pleasure. They are disloyal -which is an awful trait to have *



EnjoliWoman said:


> While MY favorite part that stood out to me was this:
> "I found out I wasn’t special to him at all, and that I am special to me. What can I say."
> 
> While never having been cheated on to my knowledge, I totally get that. That's how I felt about my narc ex in our marriage. But I AM special enough to ME to not tolerate that kind of relationship anymore.


*
Great point! The cheater does not treat their spouse as special - the only thing that is precious to the cheater is their own ego and pleasure. Lots of people make excuses for cheaters but there are no good ones to make absolutely none. The worst are the cheating hypocrites who would divorce their spouses if they cheated - that takes a special kind of ego to say that with a straight face.*



MattMatt said:


> This depends on what she said whenever he did do something "good".
> 
> And what she told the counsellor.
> 
> ...


*I would love to hear the BW's side of the story I bet its not what this "poor" man is describing at all....even if she did change her mind and not tell him immediately - well he didn't exactly check in as he was going to fvck the OW now did he? Cheaters can't do what they did and then expect the rules of decorum to be followed afterwards. I must admit I smile when a cheater gets an unexpected kick in the [email protected]@....*


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Pluto2 said:


> Even the title of his letter shows an utter lack of understanding about what he actually did. His cheating was not a "mistake" Burning the toast is a mistake; mis-buttoning your shirt is a mistake. Cheating on your spouse takes a concerted effort and deliberate thought.


I have done things in my life that were mistakes that required concerted effort and deliberate thought. As a young lady, I joined the Army. It required going through the recruitment process, going to boot camp... In retrospect, this was a giant mistake for me.

I am not trying to defend cheating as a useful thing, by any means. But it seems to me that people who seek to avoid infidelity would do better than to just dump vitriol on the cheater. The cheater is nothing more than a butt-hole. The BS MARRIED the butt-hole So at very least, they need to look at their picker.

Better yet, UNDERSTAND what is going on. Just sayin'.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

NobodySpecial said:


> I have done things in my life that were mistakes that required concerted effort and deliberate thought. As a young lady, I joined the Army. It required going through the recruitment process, going to boot camp... In retrospect, this was a giant mistake for me.
> 
> *I would argue your time in the army was not a mistake since you yourself said it required concerted effort and thought but a bad decision. Saying its a mistake lets the cheater of too lightly.*
> 
> ...


*The vitriol dumped on the cheater is well earned and deserved. That being said I agree with your that point it is not the only thing the BS should do - they need to focus on healing and getting past it as well as figuring out why they chose a disloyal spouse. *


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> *The vitriol dumped on the cheater is well earned and deserved. That being said I agree with your that point it is not the only thing the BS should do - they need to focus on healing and getting past it as well as figuring out why they chose a disloyal spouse. *


Weird quoting did not forward. The consequences of going into the Army is what made it a mistake. Not the effort that was required to achieve it.

I think the extended effort BS's make to heap vitriol on their WS is detrimental to their healing OR achieving understanding going forward of what they can do differently to avoid the pain in the future.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

NobodySpecial said:


> I think the extended effort BS's make to heap vitriol on their WS is detrimental to their healing OR achieving understanding going forward of what they can do differently to avoid the pain in the future.


Over an extended period yes...but the cheater deserves all the vitriol they get...


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Over an extended period yes...but the cheater deserves all the vitriol they get...


I wonder how much the WS cares about the vitriol? Are they even seeing it? If a person is posting on the internet, do they forward the vitriol to their WS? You are pain-filled, angry example of how the vitriol is more damaging to the BS than to the WS. I don't disagree with you that they deserve ... whatever. It is just not worth the time. There is a place of processing grief where the anger needs to be put away and the next phase moved to. Perhaps you are not ready for that.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

NobodySpecial said:


> I wonder how much the WS cares about the vitriol? Are they even seeing it? If a person is posting on the internet, do they forward the vitriol to their WS? *You are pain-filled, angry example of how the vitriol is more damaging to the BS than to the WS. *I don't disagree with you that they deserve ... whatever. It is just not worth the time. There is a place of processing grief where the anger needs to be put away and the next phase moved to. Perhaps you are not ready for that.


Wow...you make a giant leap for someone who doesnt know me. keep your amateur psychology to yourself ok?


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Wow...you make a giant leap for someone who doesnt know me. keep your amateur psychology to yourself ok?


It's just what you show here. Sorry, did not mean to offend.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

NobodySpecial said:


> It's just what you show here. Sorry, did not mean to offend.


Whatever emotion I may display is out of empathy for people who are hurting...my own case was resolved years ago..big difference...


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Whatever emotion I may display is out of empathy for people who are hurting...my own case was resolved years ago..big difference...


Glad to hear it. I wish you all the best.


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

BetrayedDad said:


> This part especially. While they are more than capable of experiencing lust, they don't know what REAL love is. That's why I always infer cheaters have sociopathic tendencies. They don't understand the difference. Many of them are incapable of the latter. Except maybe with themselves.


What enjoi says re love is , for me, also applicable to sex. For some , having sex is just a pleasurable bodily function, like eating a steak or taking a god dump. I am not critical of folks that take it casually, but , I do think there is a relationship between promiscuity and infidelity.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

BetrayedDad said:


> This part especially. While they are more than capable of experiencing lust, they don't know what REAL love is. That's why I always infer cheaters have sociopathic tendencies. They don't understand the difference. Many of them are incapable of the latter. Except maybe with themselves.


I think you can love someone and have sex with someone else.

I just don't think you should do it unless you've been open about the fact that you're going to do it.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

marduk said:


> I think you can love someone and have sex with someone else.
> 
> I just don't think you should do it unless you've been open about the fact that you're going to do it.


I kinda agree. I don't think you can love someone and have sex with someone else WHILE they love you. If I love so-and-so and they don't give two craps about me, then fine, sex away. If I love someone, they love me and we are committed together, then I don't see it. There is nothing more damaging that a spouse can do (legally) than to commit adultery. 

How can you love someone if you are willing to do the worst possible thing to them?


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

marduk said:


> I think you can love someone and have sex with someone else.


If you truly LOVED a specific woman, 100%, all in, head over heels, ga ga, etc. you wouldn't want to have sex with anyone else. Sadly, I don't think I'd ever feel that way about another girl again.

I think about many WW's who cut off sex with BS to stay loyal to their partners. They seem incapable of have sex with more than one person. They want no one else but their APs.

Men are capable of this but it take a lot more to get us there. The woman would have to be a dime inside and out. In general, women are more far more emotional about sex.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

marduk said:


> I think you can love someone and have sex with someone else.
> 
> I just don't think you should do it unless you've been open about the fact that you're going to do it.


Agree with the first part - but if you do it while married you are a sh!t....:grin2:



Herschel said:


> I kinda agree. I don't think you can love someone and have sex with someone else WHILE they love you. If I love so-and-so and they don't give two craps about me, then fine, sex away. If I love someone, they love me and we are committed together, then I don't see it. There is nothing more damaging that a spouse can do (legally) than to commit adultery.
> 
> *How can you love someone if you are willing to do the worst possible thing to them?*


Perhaps because you love them a lot less than your own pleasure and ego?



BetrayedDad said:


> If you truly LOVED a specific woman, 100%, all in, head over heels, ga ga, etc. you wouldn't want to have sex with anyone else. Sadly, I don't think I'd ever feel that way about another girl again.
> 
> I think about many WW's who cut off sex with BS to stay loyal to their partners. They seem incapable of have sex with more than one person. They want no one else but their APs.
> 
> Men are capable of this but it take a lot more to get us there. The woman would have to be a dime inside and out. In general, women are more far more emotional about sex.


Any BS who stays with a WW who cut off sex to stay faithful to an AP is a fool....and needs to get a backbone and learn to love themselves more than their cheating POS wife...


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Any BS who stays with a WW who cut off sex to stay faithful to an AP is a fool....and needs to get a backbone and learn to love themselves more than their cheating POS wife...


Isn't that the problem with 95% of the BS who come here seeking advise?!?

If I got a nickel for every time I said, "Get some self respect" I'd be golfing with Bill Gates.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

BetrayedDad said:


> Isn't that the problem with 95% of the BS who come here seeking advise?!?
> 
> If I got a nickel for every time I said, "Get some self respect" I'd be golfing with Bill Gates.


Agreed..there are some cases of R i've read that I can not understand how they made it...that is why i like chumplady - she empowers BSs and makes them realize they have options.."leave a cheater gain a life"..I also think many R out of fear and not strength...and settle with a spouse who has betrayed thiem in a vile manner...


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

BetrayedDad said:


> If you truly LOVED a specific woman, 100%, all in, head over heels, ga ga, etc. you wouldn't want to have sex with anyone else. Sadly, I don't think I'd ever feel that way about another girl again.
> 
> I think about many WW's who cut off sex with BS to stay loyal to their partners. They seem incapable of have sex with more than one person. They want no one else but their APs.
> 
> Men are capable of this but it take a lot more to get us there. The woman would have to be a dime inside and out. In general, women are more far more emotional about sex.


Totally not true. 

I loved both my wives. And a few other women along the way. 

And I always wanted to have sex with other women. I just chose not to, and because I loved those women, it was an easy choice. 

Attraction and love really don't have much to do with each other.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

marduk said:


> Totally not true.
> 
> I loved both my wives. And a few other women along the way.
> 
> ...


You can notice..we all do but it doesn't mean you will cheat...faithful doesn't mean blind lol


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

I understand appreciating hot women.

I'm just saying, in a scenario of ZERO chance of discovery, would you fvck them?

Or do you love your wife too much? That's why its not as separate as we like to think.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

BetrayedDad said:


> I understand appreciating hot women.
> 
> I'm just saying, in a scenario of ZERO chance of discovery, would you fvck them?
> 
> Or do you love your wife too much?


I've been there, with nearly zero chance of being caught, and with very hot women.

And I didn't. So it's possible.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

BetrayedDad said:


> I understand appreciating hot women.
> 
> I'm just saying, in a scenario of ZERO chance of discovery, would you fvck them?
> 
> Or do you love your wife too much? That's why its not as separate as we like to think.


No...not if you truly loved them..Sex is never worth destroying the person you love and vowed to be loyal to..and doesn't EVERY cheater think they are going to get away with it? 



marduk said:


> I've been there, with nearly zero chance of being caught, and with very hot women.
> 
> And I didn't. So it's possible.


Good man..but I gotta ask..how hot on a scale of 1-10? >>>


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Truthseeker1 said:


> No...not if you truly loved them..Sex is never worth destroying the person you love and vowed to be loyal to..and doesn't EVERY cheater think they are going to get away with it?
> 
> 
> 
> Good man..but I gotta ask..how hot on a scale of 1-10? >>>


One was a former model. I was half a world away at the time and completely incommunicado. I would rate her at least a 9. 

She looked like an exotic version of an early 30s Victoria secret model. You could tell she wasn't used to hearing no.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

marduk said:


> One was a former model. I was half a world away at the time and completely incommunicado. I would rate her at least a 9.
> 
> She looked like an exotic version of an early 30s Victoria secret model. You could tell she wasn't used to hearing no.


Wow..you are a loyal man with a good amount of self-control....


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Wow..you are a loyal man with a good amount of self-control....


Not really. 

I've been with plenty of women. They're all hot in their own way. 

I wouldn't give up my honour for any of them. There's no mystery there. 

I won't say I wasn't tempted. Because I was. I just wasn't for long.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

marduk said:


> Not really.
> 
> I've been with plenty of women. They're all hot in their own way.
> 
> ...


If more WS thought like you do - we wouldn't be here...that is why I respect what you did..you could have done it and got away free except for your conscience...


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