# "Foreplay feels forced"



## Not Me Oh (Apr 20, 2009)

If foreplay is so important to women, then what do you do when your low desire spouse has said from almost day one of your relationship that they don't "get" foreplay? Anyone had success in turning this around? I know my wife doesn't want to hurt or reject me, but she just has never felt much desire and mainly had s*x with me because it was her "wifely duty."


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

unless she wants to change i dont see what you can do. if she does want to change then there are several approaches including open communication, medical and or mental assistance.

but this has been discussed in here before, if she is happy with the sex and frequency but you want more, you will be left wanting. the sexes could be reversed here so its not just a female thing


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## CarolineMRF (Sep 2, 2009)

What a man sees before he marries is what he is going to get...If anything it will decrease...The phrase "Not tonight dear" is not a myth.....

Caroline

P.S. This goes for what a woman sees in a man's libido.....


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Have you asked her:

Is there a way you like to be kissed that feels nice to you? Can you teach me by kissing me that way? 

Is there a way you like to be massaged that feels nice - even if it is not a "turn on", it just feels nice? If so, can you massage me that way so I know what it is I can do to you? 

Is there any type of touching, licking that feels nice for you/turns you on? Can you teach me how to do that? 

Is there some type of talking/sounds even music that are nice, a turn on, or is silence the best for you? 

Is there some type of soap I should use when I shower just before bed or cologne that I can wear that smells nice for you/is a turn on that I can wear? 






Not Me Oh said:


> If foreplay is so important to women, then what do you do when your low desire spouse has said from almost day one of your relationship that they don't "get" foreplay? Anyone had success in turning this around? I know my wife doesn't want to hurt or reject me, but she just has never felt much desire and mainly had s*x with me because it was her "wifely duty."


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## CarolineMRF (Sep 2, 2009)

When a woman is in sexual heat for a man, foreplay can start from any room in the house...It need not be in bed, but on a stairway with a spouse yelling to you that I am going to **** your brains out...For a woman in love and two people that are comfortable with each other, this is part of their sexual game of love...

Now if a woman is inhibited, she may feel in her mind that sex is dirty...By "dirty" I mean not appealing...Something she would just as soon pass on...But, a duty in the marriage contract....The secret is to introduce her to hot sexual foreplay and tease her...Drive her wild...Lots of ways to do this and make them happy....I know, my husband loves to tease me and make me beg....


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Have you tried a good cardio workout combined with 2 glasses of wine? If you both do the workout/drink the endorphins/alcohol make a delightful, relaxing mood.




CarolineMRF said:


> When a woman is in sexual heat for a man, foreplay can start from any room in the house...It need not be in bed, but on a stairway with a spouse yelling to you that I am going to **** your brains out...For a woman in love and two people that are comfortable with each other, this is part of their sexual game of love...
> 
> Now if a woman is inhibited, she may feel in her mind that sex is dirty...By "dirty" I mean not appealing...Something she would just as soon pass on...But, a duty in the marriage contract....The secret is to introduce her to hot sexual foreplay and tease her...Drive her wild...Lots of ways to do this and make them happy....I know, my husband loves to tease me and make me beg....


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## CarolineMRF (Sep 2, 2009)

MEM11363 said:


> Have you tried a good cardio workout combined with 2 glasses of wine? If you both do the workout/drink the endorphins/alcohol make a delightful, relaxing mood.


Thank you so much for the suggestion, but we never have a problem getting in the mood....He is the neatest guy in the world...Still retains the boy in the man that I adore...We are a matching set...

My suggestions were for couples that do struggle...and many do....


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## Not Me Oh (Apr 20, 2009)

UPDATE

So we had a talk yesterday while I was at work and she was at home with our daughter. I can't have my pregnant wife and the woman I love afraid that I am going to leave her...as long as she knows that the status quo is unacceptable. 

She doesn't want me to get a girlfriend because she wants a traditional family (still sounds funny since we tried swinging).

She doesn't want me to berrate her for sex.

She can't figure out why she has no desire and feels really bad for it. She does say that she warned me when before we got married that she was never that sexual of a person (silly me, I took that as a "But we can work on it" sort of thing).

She does enjoy sex a lot of the time we have it.


So unfortunately I think we are going backwards a little bit at least for now to stop the discussions I start which, when she doesn't respond with any progress she's made, turn into one-sided arguments.

First what I will change. I will be more clear with her about how much time she gets out with her girlfriends...meaning I won't tell her to go have a good time (on her night off but a work night for me) and then start calling her at midnight asking when she'll be home. I definitely think the feeling of being engulfed (in the past more so, I've changed a lot) by me makes her want to pull away.

On her side we're going to go back to the "wifely duty" model...I will get sex most times twice a week (she has 3 nights off with her schedule). If she's sick or exhausted, then we skip a night. It will not be ok for her to just "lay there." She has to make an effort to enjoy herself...if she can't get there, then she needs to make it enjoyable for me and not just give me an orifice to use.

This is not how I want it to be but I'm a dad and a husband to a wife I love very much. If I want to keep her intact, then I need this temporary solution...so I won't be so angry at her for lack of trying/"wanting"...so she won't feel so much guilt and anxiety.

My theory is based on something our counselor suggested....that the more my wife had sex with me that was enjoyable, the more she would develop a "muscle memory" for it. I think it's a lot like jump-starting a car. My wife can't seem to develop a desire for sex...so we skip waiting for her to want it (and thereby controlling/sabotaging the relationship) and go straight into the foreplay/romance/sex parts.

MEM: this sounds SLIGHTLY like what you talk about in your agreement but I imagine your wife's desire is higher than mine?

I'm not really resentful over the swinging thing any more...just puzzled and tired....she clams up whenever I want to talk about that period because she claims it's been beat to death and has been something I use to beat her up....what I wanted to know was about how she was with ME in that period...how did she have such great desire back then for a small period of time and feel so good about how she looked...and now she can go back to her normal feelings and problems.

So much of what I read in the Passionate Marriage book sounded like it might help change things, and maybe I haven't gotten to the section for partners that never really had much desire...it seems like most couples started off pretty good and petered out...my wife started out low, peaked, and went back to her baseline.

Anyone else have any constructive suggestions on making this new (old) arrangement work well?

Caroline: I like the "hot sexual foreplay" suggestion but have to get passed the "it feels forced" thing my wife says. I think I'm going to shut her down when she tried to cut that part out and just go to the me getting off part. I'm compromising for the woman I love and to take care of my needs...but I'm not just going to use her without any effort to make her feel good too.

MEM: I've asked the questions about "what makes you feel good...what could we try" and I get the blank stare with some fear behind it....that she doesnt seem to have a connection to that part of her. The therapist told her to text me with what she likes...so maybe that's supposed to let her not feel so much pressure to come up with an answer right when I ask the question.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

NMO: 
I think you are a great guy, a committed husband and you are walking the "tightrope" here with a high level of skill.

Your compromise is indeed a lot like ours in some ways. Like you I am compassionate when wife is exhausted, depressed - but not the "I don't like my life" type thing because that becomes the open ended excuse to everything. But if something specific happens I am sympathetic and reasonable. So that means sometimes we don't connect twice a week, and that is ok because we also sometimes connect 3 times a week. That is nice when it happens - but I don't push it. 

As for just laying there. Well I am lucky about that part of it. My wife make most encounters very, very fun for me. My issue, a bit like yours is she is not so good about letting me make sex so fun for her. 

But in a different way we are a little reversed. She has been the one who broadened the things we do in bed. And I have been the one who is afraid to share what I want for fear of what she would think of me. Maybe it is better to say she is stronger when it comes to "real" intimacy then I am. She is more comfortable letting me so the "real" her. 








Not Me Oh said:


> UPDATE
> 
> So we had a talk yesterday while I was at work and she was at home with our daughter. I can't have my pregnant wife and the woman I love afraid that I am going to leave her...as long as she knows that the status quo is unacceptable.
> 
> ...


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## Not Me Oh (Apr 20, 2009)

MEM: so what are you actually afraid of revealing to your wife (if you can say it here)?

I think the hard part I have with the compromise is that I know my wife is a survivor of both a date rape and an abusive relationship. On the one hand, I know she has free will with me so she can choose to have sex with me out of love for her spouse even if she can't get into it...and that's not rape. On the other hand, I feel sometimes like I'm just the next guy to make her feel like her body isn't really hers. Does that make sense?

My biggest fear with my wife isn't wondering if she loves me now...it's wondering if she might change like she did in the fall of last year...that could have been a unique situation, her response to having to be on her own while I was out of state for 100 days...but perhaps she could pull away again for some other reason...guess the only way not to risk getting hurt is not to play at all and that's not me.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

One thing that may help you sexually is to do the "pre foreplay" unpredictably. Lets say most nights that I am nice and loving and do the massage thing I then move on to sex. So the other night a massage followed by spooning and me not showing any interest in sex. Next morning a Saturday, same thing. Sometimes when I do "that" she turns to me and says "I want you". 

I touch my wife in a sexual/sensual way every day. I do NOT mean that I grab her butt or boobs. That is not a nice way to touch anyone. But when I hug her I press my whole body against her, I don't grind - again - that is the oppostive of the approach. I just let my body let her body know that I am "there"

As for the whole thing about "WHY". She is choosing not to tell you. 






Not Me Oh said:


> MEM: so what are you actually afraid of revealing to your wife (if you can say it here)?
> 
> I think the hard part I have with the compromise is that I know my wife is a survivor of both a date rape and an abusive relationship. On the one hand, I know she has free will with me so she can choose to have sex with me out of love for her spouse even if she can't get into it...and that's not rape. On the other hand, I feel sometimes like I'm just the next guy to make her feel like her body isn't really hers. Does that make sense?
> 
> My biggest fear with my wife isn't wondering if she loves me now...it's wondering if she might change like she did in the fall of last year...that could have been a unique situation, her response to having to be on her own while I was out of state for 100 days...but perhaps she could pull away again for some other reason...guess the only way not to risk getting hurt is not to play at all and that's not me.


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## Not Me Oh (Apr 20, 2009)

I'm going to try the unpredictable approach...I swear that Passionate Marriage book could have been written by someone observing our marriage. Unfortunately it leads me to believe that "jumpstarting" things by skipping the no desire problem and moving straight to foreplay and such, is not going to help things.
There is a term "communal genitals" that is used to describe the idea that, if you are married and are faithful, then your spouse basically owes you a s*x life. I pretty much agree that it works that way but I don't want to be OWED something...I want my wife to WANT something between us. 

The author says that one partner can usually force the other to violate their integrity (just in s*x?)...and this feels like one of those cases. I told my wife when we started working on things in the Spring (and repeated it after she told me about being raped) that I didn't want her to have s*x with me just out of obligation...because it wasn't enjoyable for me to "get off" and see her just "take it." But now that's the compromise? 

Saturday night is upon us, the next time I'll have a shot at doing anything in this realm with my wife...so we'll see what I actually throw out there...I'm thinking some of that foreplay that doesn't lead to penetration is in order....no discussions that turn into lectures...but definitely an effort to connect emotionally and mentally.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

I know this is going to sound goofy - and I am NOT a goofy guy. And yes - deep sigh - I do have a sense of entitlement regarding sex in marriage. I have been a great husband/loyal non cheating etc. So I am OWED sex. Ugh!!! But I don't want to "collect" on an obligation I want to be WANTED. Actually when my wife is really "in love" with me, like she has been for the last year, she WANTS to have sex with me because she wants to please ME. It makes her happy to make me happy. And luckily for the last 6+ months or so she has also been feeling "desire", genuine desire all on her own. Which is even nicer. 

But I think it is mostly me that she is reacting to. The loving, nice helpful persona combined with the sharp edged, aggressive style that comes out when needed and then quickly gets put away. My wife does this thing routinely where she pushes boundaries. I honestly think it turns her on when I call her on it and say "no way is that happening". I have only been married once so I only have one data point. I would like to know if wives are "programmed" to routinely "test" their partners "masculinity quotient". When it is high, they want to mate with us, when it is low they do NOT want to mate. Sure feels that way in my house.










QUOTE=Not Me Oh;86251]I'm going to try the unpredictable approach...I swear that Passionate Marriage book could have been written by someone observing our marriage. Unfortunately it leads me to believe that "jumpstarting" things by skipping the no desire problem and moving straight to foreplay and such, is not going to help things.
There is a term "communal genitals" that is used to describe the idea that, if you are married and are faithful, then your spouse basically owes you a s*x life. I pretty much agree that it works that way but I don't want to be OWED something...I want my wife to WANT something between us. 

The author says that one partner can usually force the other to violate their integrity (just in s*x?)...and this feels like one of those cases. I told my wife when we started working on things in the Spring (and repeated it after she told me about being raped) that I didn't want her to have s*x with me just out of obligation...because it wasn't enjoyable for me to "get off" and see her just "take it." But now that's the compromise? 

Saturday night is upon us, the next time I'll have a shot at doing anything in this realm with my wife...so we'll see what I actually throw out there...I'm thinking some of that foreplay that doesn't lead to penetration is in order....no discussions that turn into lectures...but definitely an effort to connect emotionally and mentally.[/QUOTE]


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## Not Me Oh (Apr 20, 2009)

So we had a stressful Saturday night with the daughter (age 2) and didn't get her down until maybe 10PM...I ran out to grab us an entree while my wife cooked some fresh corn (yum!)...watched an epsiode of Top Chef and finally got to wind down from the stresses of being a parent. Finally made it into bed at maybe 1230 or 1AM...

It was an amazing feeling...I was so stressed out over dealing with our high energy daughter + all of this sex stuff, that I actually did not want to do anything sexual or sensual with my wife...but because I know that I only get 3 nights a week with her (night shift job), I still initiated. Before we did anything sexual, we had a civil discussion in bed by candle light about this new compromise which was really a return to the old in some ways. Wifey will give me sex on average 2 times a week and will make an effort to really want it / be interactive...and I will stop pushing to find out what her issues are with sex (obviously there could be things she needs me to change but can't verbalize).

The sex itself was mainly about me since she can't move too well with being pregnant (I know other women can...but pregnancy affects everyone differently). I did change things up a bit and was doing some playful biting like I wanted to taste or "vamp" her...she seemed to enjoy that...the Passionate Marriage book really has opened my eyes about how foreplay is a negotiation over what the rest of the encounter will be like...and about how married couples settle into a boring routine with sex and are afraid to change up their sexual styles.

I woke up this morning not feeling that guy feeling of "man I feel better now that I got laid." Don't know if I just want the "being wanted" feeling so much that it overshadows everything or if it's just going to take me time to recharge from all the fights we've had since the swinging stopped. 

I think I'm just going to use this "wifely duty" period to try and stay less confrontational over the "why don't you want to want me" issue and make it through until the birth of our new child...at that time, she's going to step up and put more effort into things. 

Oh, I did chastise my wife about one thing during our civil talk (and before that)....I've been asking for a date night for months...and by that we usually mean DMS: dinner, movie, sex. Because there is only 1 gal (and her daughter) that she trusts to sit, it's not very easy for me to surprise her with a night on the town and have an empty house to come back to. After the stress of dealing with our daughter and trying to get her down to bed, I told my wife that it was absolutely a passion killer to try to get on dinner for the family, deal with your kid, do dishes and chores, then switch to romance mode near midnight. If she actually made going on dates a priority and had some time with me away from the household stresses, maybe she'd be a bit more open to romance...duh! Let's hope that one sinks in.


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## Choose2love (Jul 28, 2009)

Marriage absolutely has to be a priority when there are children involved! On the other hand, so does sleep, good sleep... for both, but especially for the parent who is doing the child care as its much more draining than any office job. There are no coffee breaks, there are no adult chats in the hallway, no online surfing during "slow times" bc there are really no slow times until they get older and want to be left alone more and are in school.

I commend you for not letting her slack off with her wifely duties, but I do have to say that being pregnant is highly uncomfortable... and no man could ever understand what it feels like to have all that uncomfortable pressure on your pelvis, and hips and swelling, and fatigue, constantly peeing, having insomnia... heartburn that can make you feel as though you are having a heart attack... no lie, it hurts that bad sometimes! Acid refulx that goes into lungs so you cant breathe! Not everyone has all of these (except lucky me) but just trying to give you an idea of how awful it can be to be pregnant... and when you get past 7-8 months... just get that baby out alive please! That is like the driving force.

Please know this when you approach her.


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## Not Me Oh (Apr 20, 2009)

Choose2love: thanks for your comments. I definitely get the discomfort of pregnancy as much as a guy can from his perspective. This is #2 for us and seems to be physically harder than #1, even though my wife is around 50 lbs lighter. 

It's the mental laziness(??) that gets to me more than the physical, though the lack of effort to get stuff done sometimes makes me wonder.... I get that she can be pretty busy and not have much time to herself...same here...she works nights and me days...I get the drive time to my job to think about stuff...BUT...if this fixing things were truly important to her, she'd set aside some time to look inward...how's about some night she set aside an hour when she'd otherwise be watching one of her shows or do it instead of going out with me or her girlfriend on a weekend night...but no, when questioned previously about what she'd done to examine herself, she just gives me this blank stare. She saw the counselor again last night, but it'd been so long since the last appointment that they didn't really dive into anything deep and instead just caught up a bit. I'm not convinced that the counselor can fix the desire issue and especially not if the appointments are this far apart. What she discusses with the counselor is her business but working on the issue of desire is not negotiable.
I can't say that I have a right to her "genitals" as my book so plainly puts it, but I will say that she can not control my right to sex...only my adherance to the basic rules of marriage says that, if I don't have sex with her, then I can't have sex with anyone else either.

Since our last sexual encounter (the previous Saturday night), I've not really felt any desire towards her. It could be because she is so uncomfortable with the pregnancy and I see that...I hope it is that and not that my heart has given up on penetrating hers....or that I'm over the hill LOL I've been less angry at her over sex/desire, but I did get into a fight last night with her...it should have just been a discussion but before I knew it she was all kinds of agitated...makes me wonder if she was baiting me in our prior conversations without thinking about it and I was letting myself get hooked into going off on her verbally...coming from her prior abusive relationship, I have to wonder.


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