# Sex: Finding the Middle Ground



## nwguy111 (Aug 26, 2008)

Looking for a woman's perspective on this one.....Here's the scenario: I have a strong desire to make love to my wife almost daily. She, on the other hand could go days or weeks without sex. She feels that holding hands is being intimate enough and this alone should satisfy both of our physical desires. First off, is it selfish for me to express my sexual needs to her? She feels that this is making demands of her. Second, is the act of holding hands by itself really considered intimacy? Personally, I consider it showing affection, but maybe I'm wrong on this one. Finally, what reasonable solution or approach might I try in this situation? I love her dearly, but want to make love to her so much more. I don't understand why I should feel bad about this.


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## SaxonMan (Apr 1, 2009)

Your first question : no, I don't think it's selfish of you to articulate your desire for more sex. Where the compromise is needed is how much that actually happens. There is no harm in bringing the subject up and (hopefully) having some rational discourse about it.

Your second question: Yes, holding hands is intimacy, but there are many forms of intimacy - all of which are necessary for a good relationship, IMO. The overriding one which can help all the others is emotional intimacy. A good foundation in that will help the others immensely. In other words, you should both listen to each others needs in that department, sympathise and BOTH work for the middle ground.

How have your attempts in doing that worked? Does she show sympathy or concern that you aren't feeling fulfilled in that way?


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

I'd say holding hand is intimate.

Far as frequency of sex, could be she is tired, could be female related problems too as well as emotional ones.

Several years ago when in my early 30's I was dating man who had a very strong sex drive... most of which was because he did not have the type of job I did that took all your energy away !
so...
I told him to paint the house. He would paint and paint and paint
lol... which helped rid him of some of that energy
and I ended up with a real purty house.

Maybe you can do things to physically exert yourself so you will be tired too.
?


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## mjr810 (Aug 24, 2008)

preso said:


> Maybe you can do things to physically exert yourself so you will be tired too.
> ?


You can't be serious....


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

mjr810 said:


> You can't be serious....


yes I'm serious...
maybe her job is super physicaly and emotionally demanding as mine was...
as the man I was with at the time had NO WHERE NEAR the activity at work I did, so when we were together, he was all ready to go !
Someone suggested to me to put him to work and the house painting was my idea. 
It did curtail his sex drive some............

guess not only to tire him out but also give him something else to do than think about his penis.


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## nwguy111 (Aug 26, 2008)

SaxonMan: 

Periodically, my wife and I will have discussions on sex (or lack thereof) and I don't get far in making my point unless I let my wife understand how serious I am. Most of the time, she'll make me feel like I'm the one with the problem (i.e. - I'm just an oversexed dog). Otherwise, I get the normal "knee jerk" responses from her like "I'm too tired" or "I've got a headache." Perhaps I've caused the problem by letting her get away with these excuses for so long. So to answer your question, I think it stresses her out when I bring up this subject so therefore it's very difficult if not impossible to get any sympathy from her.

I've read many self help articles on the subject and bent over backwards to make her life as minimally stressful as possible and to shower her constantly with love and kindness. This has done nothing.

Preso: 

I'm coming to the conclusion that my wife simply has very little interest in sex. It has such little importance to her that she rarely thinks about it. IMO, I think a large part of this stems from her upbringing. Kinda sad, considering she was wild and crazy during the first few years we were together.

Thanks for your responses!


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## mjr810 (Aug 24, 2008)

preso said:


> yes I'm serious...
> maybe her job is super physicaly and emotionally demanding as mine was...
> as the man I was with at the time had NO WHERE NEAR the activity at work I did, so when we were together, he was all ready to go !
> Someone suggested to me to put him to work and the house painting was my idea.
> ...


Well, I have a pretty demanding job as does my wife. I can tell you, if either of our jobs had a continuing negative impact on our relationship, then the job would go. And quick.

Believe it or not, men do think about things other than our penis, such as, What can I do for my wife today?

By the way, did you ever go back to my other post and read on? You really jumped to conclusions with your response.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

nwguy111 said:


> SaxonMan:
> 
> Preso:
> 
> ...


That could be...
sex is only part of a relationship, not the relationship and couples once together for some time, often wane off on the frequency as true intimacy of the emotional kind sets in. 
My husband and I are both in the 50 ish age range and 
we do not have sex very often and neither of us minds, we have discussed it and he said he was ok with sex now and then. I was glad because I do not feel like having sex every day like I did when I was in my 20's.

When we do have sex, we both enjoy it and comment we should do it more often, but we don't and thats fine by me. He does not cheat on me, I guess he is just not highly sexed, which I love about him. In my past I was with men who were and it's just too much drama.

This makes me think, if you get divorced, maybe you should seek a woman based on her sex drive if this is a major consideration for you to be highly sexual throughout life. For me it is not a priority and any man I would be with, it would not be for him either.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

mjr810 said:


> Well, I have a pretty demanding job as does my wife. I can tell you, if either of our jobs had a continuing negative impact on our relationship, then the job would go. And quick.
> 
> 
> QUOTE]
> ...


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## mjr810 (Aug 24, 2008)

preso said:


> mjr810 said:
> 
> 
> > Well, I have a pretty demanding job as does my wife. I can tell you, if either of our jobs had a continuing negative impact on our relationship, then the job would go. And quick.
> ...


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

Some of us have pensions coming after decades of work... and changing jobs is not an option.

In our case it is my husband who waits for his. I already have mine 

but let me tell you what my mother told me:
don't fall in love with a peice of azz...


I feel people marry , some tend to put too much into sex
and not enough into the relationship. In summary:
sex is over rated.


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## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

Holding hands is NOT!!!! intimacy!!! It's PDA. 

Intimacy means (emotionally connected) SEX!!!

If you're not getting what YOU want, tell her she's going to lose you due to lack of interest. And if she won't change, get rid of her. 

Sex is a major part of love and companionship and marriage. Get yours or get it elsewhere (without her in your life). 

There's no reason to live life like this. Get out if you have to.

I'm 50ish, too and would make love (not just fu.k!) every day (but that's negotiable). If she didn't want it at all...I'd look elsewhere for someone that I could make happy..because that would make me happy, too.


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## Chopblock (Mar 21, 2008)

NWguy... are you me? I could have written EXACTLY what you wrote.

It was a whirlwind of fun and excitement at first, and then bait n' switched into exactly what you said. Normal excuses, and making ME out to be the one with the problem. I tried what all the women here said (make her life easier, see to her needs) and it didn't result in more sex.

I wish there was a reliable way to fix it. Some guys get lucky and their wives realize it actually IS a problem before its too late. She isn't going to change until SHE wants to.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

Lucky for us older woman, so many men in our age group are more talk than action when it comes to sex...
lol

My husband and I did not marry for sex, we married for love and companionship and because we had similair values in life. We agree on most all the big issues. 
Like all relationships, nothings perfect, but our issues minor in the big scope of relationships and marriage. I am thankful for that.

Maybe the best thing would be for people should wait to marry until after 40? lol....
as peoples lives are established by then, occupations, lifestyle and they are more mature.


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## nwguy111 (Aug 26, 2008)

Thanks everyone for the added comments. I share many of your views. My wife has shown some progress over the past few days, so that's encouraging. I'll see how long this continues and report back. The one thing that amazes me is how much the two of us enjoy a hot night together. That alone gets me psyched for the next time. Which brings to mind a question. Ladies, is there a residual effect after a great night of sex? In other words, does the momentum of multiple "O's" carry over to the next day, or does a women's libido shut down and need to be started all over again? It always amazes me how there's a Jekyll and Hyde affect with my wife. After having a screaming night of passion, it's like nothing happened the next morning. Why is this?


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## GAsoccerman (Mar 24, 2008)

life is strange, thre are days, weeks where my wife and I can't get enough sex. 2-3 times a day for like a week.

Then we can go weeks without any sex at all, no problems, just to busy, tired, moody, who knows.

But there are certainly times my wife is horny and I "take one for the team" and there are times where I am horny and my wife "takes one for the team" LOL

So it is really up to the couple, we don't negotiate sex, its all about mood and teasing. via naughty talk, text or phone.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

GAsoccerman said:


> life is strange, thre are days, weeks where my wife and I can't get enough sex. 2-3 times a day for like a week.
> 
> Then we can go weeks without any sex at all, no problems, just to busy, tired, moody, who knows.
> 
> ...



a moody sexlife, how interesting.
I usually only hear females who are like this, having more to do with the menstral cycle.


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## GAsoccerman (Mar 24, 2008)

that does have alot to do with it. During that time or right before....stay away!!! I've learned to see the "warning signs" those days I catch on other things to avoid the wrath.

But sometimes I am tired, grouchy, remember part of the year i work nights, i can get cranky


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

you know whats so funny?
all these men so concerned with sex... usually its the ones who 
fixate on sex because they are lacking in some way.

My female relatives told me of men like this, they get older and fixate on their penis, end up spending the whole day masturbating in some back room... lol


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## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

Well, it's a matter of release, too. Men think in terms of their sexual health (with their woman)...women think in terms of their emotional 
health in other terms. Of course men "want it" often...it's how they (we) judge our relationship. 

Men aren't "lacking"...just don't know any other way to see their relationship.


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## nwguy111 (Aug 26, 2008)

preso said:


> you know whats so funny?
> all these men so concerned with sex... usually its the ones who
> fixate on sex because they are lacking in some way.
> 
> My female relatives told me of men like this, they get older and fixate on their penis, end up spending the whole day masturbating in some back room... lol


preso: That's pretty harsh. I certainly don't see myself falling into your category.

My wife and I have spent some of our best times together when we've had sex. That's what it's all about to me rather than just getting my rocks off.


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

Preso is an old, used up bitter woman fighting for her half of the whole hamburger  She doesn't care about sex anymore, she cares about controlling her husband and by god he's gonna treat her likes she wants or ELSE!! He wants sex? have him paint the garage! 

Well, good for her. It obviously makes her and her hubby happy or they wouldn't be together. Different strokes for different folks, I suppose. Please don't take her bitterness as gospel tho, not all of us feel like that 

Me? I want sex all the time and hubby could care less. Doesn't want it, doesn't need it, doesn't care. - but he's got major emotional issues these days and i think that has so much to do with it. 

I feel that sex (good sex) is the foundation on which to base a marriage. Intimacy, love, affection, playfulness, humor, intensity of emotion - all these wonderfully "free" things can all be expressed between a man and a woman in bed. And should be!

If you aren't having great sex with your spouse, something is wrong. You can have a close relationship with the neighbor, your pastor, your children and your friends. But what sets those close loving relationships apart is ... SEX.... The level of intimacy you reach with that one other person that makes you feel whole. When your whole body and soul is so meshed and intertwined with that one other human (usually during sex) that we don't even know if our eyes are open or closed. The drained, exhausted, happy, loving glowing, totally fulfilled feeling we have after great sex. THAT's the reason to be married!

Flirting, playful touches, all the stuff that leads to sex - the playfulness we can only achieve thru that connection. Yeah, that's the good stuff.


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## nwguy111 (Aug 26, 2008)

snix11 said:


> I feel that sex (good sex) is the foundation on which to base a marriage. Intimacy, love, affection, playfulness, humor, intensity of emotion - all these wonderfully "free" things can all be expressed between a man and a woman in bed. And should be!
> 
> If you aren't having great sex with your spouse, something is wrong. You can have a close relationship with the neighbor, your pastor, your children and your friends. But what sets those close loving relationships apart is ... SEX.... The level of intimacy you reach with that one other person that makes you feel whole. When your whole body and soul is so meshed and intertwined with that one other human (usually during sex) that we don't even know if our eyes are open or closed. The drained, exhausted, happy, loving glowing, totally fulfilled feeling we have after great sex. THAT's the reason to be married!
> 
> Flirting, playful touches, all the stuff that leads to sex - the playfulness we can only achieve thru that connection. Yeah, that's the good stuff.


:iagree:

snix11:

Well said! I couldn't agree with you more.


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## hubbys baby (May 26, 2009)

nwguy111 said:


> Thanks everyone for the added comments. I share many of your views. My wife has shown some progress over the past few days, so that's encouraging. I'll see how long this continues and report back. The one thing that amazes me is how much the two of us enjoy a hot night together. That alone gets me psyched for the next time. Which brings to mind a question. Ladies, is there a residual effect after a great night of sex? In other words, does the momentum of multiple "O's" carry over to the next day, or does a women's libido shut down and need to be started all over again? It always amazes me how there's a Jekyll and Hyde affect with my wife. After having a screaming night of passion, it's like nothing happened the next morning. Why is this?


I cant speak for all the women, but it carries it over for me...so much so that i can't wait til the next time. 
We made a compromise, we have sex 3 times a week....he gets 4 nights of other stuff.....and then if it works out than we have sex other nights too....(i personally wouldn't have a problem having sex everynight..., i guess in a relationship we have to compromise so that we both can have the things we need in our relationship.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

nwguy111 said:


> :iagree:
> 
> snix11:
> 
> Well said! I couldn't agree with you more.


:iagree:


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

nwguy111-

Rather than negotiate, if you could find a way of becoming hotter in her eyes, she would actually want sex more. For whatever reason, she is just not all that attracted to you sexually. This could be any of 3 possibilities:


There is just is no chemistry. 
Her libido is low.
She used to fancy the pants off you, but resentment has crept in..

Numbers 1 and 2 are difficult, but you could still warm her up by finding out what sort of flirting gets her in the mood.
#3 is the easiest to fix, all you have to do is find out what she is resentful about.


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## nwguy111 (Aug 26, 2008)

MarkTwain:

At this point, at least I can say that my wife is making a lot more effort towards sex than she has in a long time. The question now is whether or not she's being true to herself. If she's having to force herself into having sex, resentment will only build up over time and we'll eventually hit another road block in our marriage. Only time will tell.

In recent years, I've been wondering if she's lost her sexual attraction for me. Weird thing is, she'll suddenly seem very attracted to me when a friend, co-worker or acquaintance tells her how handsome her husband is. Why does it take someone else to spur on these feelings from her? :scratchhead:


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

nwguy111 said:


> MarkTwain:
> 
> At this point, at least I can say that my wife is making a lot more effort towards sex than she has in a long time. The question now is whether or not she's being true to herself. If she's having to force herself into having sex, resentment will only build up over time and we'll eventually hit another road block in our marriage. Only time will tell.
> 
> In recent years, I've been wondering if she's lost her sexual attraction for me. Weird thing is, she'll suddenly seem very attracted to me when a friend, co-worker or acquaintance tells her how handsome her husband is. Why does it take someone else to spur on these feelings from her? :scratchhead:


I wouldn't see that as a sign that she is attracted to you. She's playing a role for their benefit.

My wife did that fake Stepford Wife act around her and my families whenever we went to visit for holidays.

It's sickening to look at family photos of xmas where she's acting all fake like that. I mean, putting her arm around me and insisting we stand next to each other for pictures?

Meanwhile, she can't wait to get back from traveling so she can go bang the other guy.

Sorry to thread jack, but like i said, it means nothing - towards you. It means her keeping her status and reputation as "the good wife". It doesn't mean she feels it.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

nwguy111 said:


> Weird thing is, she'll suddenly seem very attracted to me when a friend, co-worker or acquaintance tells her how handsome her husband is. Why does it take someone else to spur on these feelings from her? :scratchhead:


It's obvious: Familiarity has bred contempt. She take you for granted, but when other people take a shine to you, she gets jealous - or perhaps she remembers that you are actually quite a good catch.

However, I would say all this points to resentment. Is there anything that she has nagged you about over the years? I'm telling you... if it's resentment, removing the resentment will make a huge difference.


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## nwguy111 (Aug 26, 2008)

My own take is this:

For years my wife showed a lack of respect for me and I did nothing about it. (I actually discussed this subject in another thread a few months ago.) It finally reached the boiling point where I told her that either things change immediately or else I was done with our marriage.

I must admit that she's made a vast improvement in the respect department, but years of her ways (I fear) have taken a toll on her attraction and desire for me. I never seem to get a compliment out of her unless I fish for one. (and who wants to do that?) I think she's finally realizing that I'm a good husband, father and provider and she doesn't want to let that go which is probably why she's more willing on the sexual side. Perhaps the need for change has caused some resentment within her. I don't know. I just know that I want to live with a wife who not only loves me but also desires me. An occasional compliment or touch from her would be really nice every now and then.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

nwguy111 said:


> I must admit that she's made a vast improvement in the respect department, but years of her ways (I fear) have taken a toll on her attraction and desire for me. I never seem to get a compliment out of her unless I fish for one. (and who wants to do that?) I think she's finally realizing that I'm a good husband, father and provider and she doesn't want to let that go which is probably why she's more willing on the sexual side. Perhaps the need for change has caused some resentment within her. I don't know. I just know that I want to live with a wife who not only loves me but also desires me.


If you would simply re-read the above words you wrote 5-10 times, you will know exactly what to do. I could not agree more. It seems the light bulb has finally come on with you 

In fact, if you want the fast track: print out the above, and carry it in your wallet. Yep. Another guy made me do something similar once.


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## revitalizedhusband (Feb 9, 2009)

preso said:


> you know whats so funny?
> all these men so concerned with sex... usually its the ones who
> fixate on sex because they are lacking in some way.
> 
> My female relatives told me of men like this, they get older and fixate on their penis, end up spending the whole day masturbating in some back room... lol



So men who like to have sex with their wife often now are the type that have penis fixations and wind up old men masturbating in a back room?

Wow, odd view on men who love their wives...


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## studlyc (Jun 10, 2009)

snix11 said:


> Preso is an old, used up bitter woman fighting for her half of the whole hamburger  She doesn't care about sex anymore, she cares about controlling her husband and by god he's gonna treat her likes she wants or ELSE!! He wants sex? have him paint the garage!
> 
> Well, good for her. It obviously makes her and her hubby happy or they wouldn't be together. Different strokes for different folks, I suppose. Please don't take her bitterness as gospel tho, not all of us feel like that


I Agree with Snix. It sounds like Preso is really bitter about her life and her sex life. And I feel bad for her.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

revitalizedhusband said:


> So men who like to have sex with their wife often now are the type that have penis fixations and wind up old men masturbating in a back room?
> 
> Wow, odd view on men who love their wives...


I wonder how'd she react if you flipped the comment to say that I have older relatives who find that older women who fixate on not having sex and end up sitting in back rooms badmouthing men's sexual interest.


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## studlyc (Jun 10, 2009)

Or I wonder if her husband is on here complaining about his sex life and not happy in there marriage.


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## iPodder (Jun 7, 2009)

preso said:


> a moody sexlife, how interesting.
> I usually only hear females who are like this, having more to do with the menstral cycle.





preso said:


> you know whats so funny?
> all these men so concerned with sex... usually its the ones who
> fixate on sex because they are lacking in some way.
> 
> My female relatives told me of men like this, they get older and fixate on their penis, end up spending the whole day masturbating in some back room... lol


I was watching this board trying to decide if I wanted to join the community. Enjoy your hamburgers.


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

awwww podder... don't worry about one bad apple  

and heck, I can't name three other women here that would complain about a broken hamburger, if it was giving lovingly, with a kiss and a promise to make it up with something better later 

I still feel sex is the REASON to sleep with a mate. the reason to be married. Otherwise, why bother? Almost all marriages I can think of hinge on fidelity and exclusivity. So if it's not 'all about sex' why be married at all? Why sleep with someone? 

I dunno, maybe i'm just feeling growly hungry for sex... but the thought of going without it, of denying a man (or woman) you live with, sleep with and care for sex is just incomprehensible to me. 

I don't care what you are upset about, as long as it's not the sex itself, GET OVER IT. Don't let being upset over something unrelated to sex ruin a good, working part of your relationship. Hrumph!


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## nwguy111 (Aug 26, 2008)

Ok. So here's the latest pattern. We'll go 2 days with great sex, then 2 or 3 days without. I'm ready and willing every day, but my wife obviously is not. I'm ok with not "doing it" every day, but years of her lack of interest in sex are making me resentful if two or more days pass and we go without. I feel like she's trying to establish a trend of fewer and fewer days of sex each week. Eventually, she'll get back to the 1 to 2 times per month we used to have in the past. I've been trying to make myself more attractive to her by wearing cloths and cologne I know she likes. I'm very complementary of her and I jump at every opportunity to help out around the house. I'm working full-time and she's a stay-at-home mom. Our kids are both grown and nearly out of the house, so she doesn't have near the mommy demands she did when our kids were little.

Should I stop worrying about frequency of sex and leave things be? Right now, it's more of the message I'm getting from her rather than the physical part.

Also, what type of attraction is normal for a wife to show her husband? In our early years, my wife couldn't keep her hands off me, even in public. She also used to sneak a peak of me in the bathroom during or after a shower. Now, she stays clear of the bathroom whenever I'm showering. In all of our years of marriage, my physique is basically the same. I still wear the same size cloths. Still have all my hair. Still believe I'm attractive man. What gives? :scratchhead:


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

nwguy111 said:


> Also, what type of attraction is normal for a wife to show her husband? In our early years, my wife couldn't keep her hands off me, even in public. She also used to sneak a peak of me in the bathroom during or after a shower. Now, she stays clear of the bathroom whenever I'm showering. In all of our years of marriage, my physique is basically the same. I still wear the same size cloths. Still have all my hair. Still believe I'm attractive man. What gives? :scratchhead:


She is not as attracted to you as she once was, and is taking you for granted. At one point a few years ago, I finally got fed up with the fact that I could walk right past my wife while I was naked, and she would not even turn her head to look at me. Eventually I got so fed up I told her there were plenty of women who's heads would turn. I let her know point blank that I was on the look-out for someone to validate my sexuality. It took time but she started to give me more compliments and display a little bit more lust.

None of this transformation could take place before I woke up. I had been only dimly aware of what was happening. When I finally realised the gravity of the situation - that she was "just not that into me", I decided I could not live with the mediocrity of it all.

As someone once said:



Jesus (Mathew 5:13) said:


> Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savor, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.


So once I realised that I had lost my grittiness, I knew what I had to do. Sometimes, you just have to get a little salty. 

I don't blame my wife, I blame my own ignorance. It's so easy to fall asleep at the wheel. We all need to wake up.


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## nwguy111 (Aug 26, 2008)

MT:

Very good post and very well though out. :smthumbup:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that I can express my desires to my wife, but I can't force her to be attracted to me. I suppose someone can lose their attraction for another, but I'm wondering if it's possible to reawaken the attraction that once existed in the past. It sounds as though you've been successful at accomplishing this in your marriage. I'm green with envy. 

What's the best way to address this subject? Would asking my wife the question, "how can I make myself more attractive to you?" be a good approach or not? Or would it be better just to state (as you've done), "if you won't acknowledge me, then I'll find another who will."

I'd also be interested in hearing a woman's perspective on this subject. Are women out there attracted to their husband's appearance (dressed up or undressed) and how do they show their attraction? Is this something that just isn't that important to women?


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

nwguy111 said:


> Would asking my wife the question, "how can I make myself more attractive to you?" be a good approach or not? Or would it be better just to state (as you've done), "if you won't acknowledge me, then I'll find another who will."


If you ask her that, you may come off as desperate which would be a huge turn off. but i think you come off as kind of desperate anyway. 

Ive given the ultimatum numerous times. it does nothing. its a reactionary statement that solves nothing. for one thing, it assumes all the burden and fault is placed on her. that's not your intention im sure, but that's how it comes off. it also lacks empathy, which will not encourage her to open up to you and become intimate. Ultimatums come off as, "i dont care what you are going through, im leaving if i dont get what i want." Again, not your intention im sure, but that is how it comes off. that does not foster love in the relationship. she may or may not react to it out of initial fear in the moment but once the stimulus is gone she'll go back to her old ways. 

In my own situation i try to approach the subject as if my H is just my friend. i try not to approach it as a "im leaving" situation, if that makes any sense.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

You say it is more the message than the physical part. What does that mean? Are you assuming she is losing interest? If so, what have you done to spice things up? Helping around the house and compliments are great, but sometimes you need to go the extra mile--a weekend away (with EVERYTHING arranged, beforehand, so she doesn't have to worry about stuff or come home to a mess). If she is the "shy" type, try a new lotion and sensuous massage, maybe a night when you give 100% and ask for nothing in return. . . I still think that for women, so many other things get in the way of libido--need for sleep, stress, blah, blah, blah, that it does fall to the men to keep us "honest" and help us find our sexuality when it starts to falter--if the men want us to be sexual, that is. Women NEED to be turned on, often, it just doesn't keep happening.

And, if you are assuming anything about what she is thinking/feeling, stop, and ask her. That's not fair to either of you and open communication is the only way!


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## nwguy111 (Aug 26, 2008)

sisters359 said:


> You say it is more the message than the physical part. What does that mean?


It basically means that a couple of days without sex gets to me physically (due to sexual urges) but more so mentally because I feel as though my wife is sending me a message that she just doesn't desire me.


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## nwguy111 (Aug 26, 2008)

sisters359 said:


> Are you assuming she is losing interest? If so, what have you done to spice things up?


Yes, I have felt for awhile that she's been losing interest. I offer her massages all the time. I'll fix a nice dinner, pour a couple glasses of wine, take her out for an evening, go for walks together, etc. Sometimes this works. Most of the time it doesn't. I never expect anything in return, but she always assumes there's a catch. I keep telling myself to be patient and kind, but it starts to wear on a person after awhile when they don't feel their needs are being reciprocated. At the very least, if she could show a physical attraction to me. This way, I wouldn't feel like she was simply servicing my needs every now and then.


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## Mommybean (Jan 22, 2009)

nwguy111 said:


> MT:
> 
> I'd also be interested in hearing a woman's perspective on this subject. Are women out there attracted to their husband's appearance (dressed up or undressed) and how do they show their attraction? Is this something that just isn't that important to women?


I for one, am EXTREMELY attracted to my H physical appearnace. Granted, we have only been together 5 years, but we have gone thru enough turmoil in that 5 years to last a lifetime. Even when we were at our worst, I never lost the physical attraction to him. I tell him any time I notice that I think he looks sexy, or hot, or that the haircut I gave him really suits him. He was 24 when we met, I was 30. He will be 30 this year, and has grown past the boy-toy hottness into a very striking man, and I tell him that all the time as well, whether it be in text messages, phone calls or face to face. 
I LOVE it when he does yard work...and he laughs at me when I go and stand outside so I can watch him try to start the weedeater or lawnmower....he was doing side work last week and said he almost had the maintenance guy take a picture for me (landscape work) of him working because he knows I like it so much. 

5 years and 2 babies later, and he tells me the other night, as I was stretched out on the chair in my nightgown that he was floored...he had never seen me look as sexy as I did in that moment. During our last round of chaos, I decided to release my frustrations by going to the gym...and obviously, in addition to making MYSELF feel better, its had an added benefit. I can't imagine being one of those "once or twice a month" wives....initial sexual attraction was what drew us to each other; its not what keeps us together now, but it definitely has its place in keeping us in tune with each other, and allows us to focus on US rather that the boys all the time....


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## nwguy111 (Aug 26, 2008)

Mommybean said:


> Even when we were at our worst, I never lost the physical attraction to him. I tell him any time I notice that I think he looks sexy, or hot, or that the haircut I gave him really suits him. He was 24 when we met, I was 30. He will be 30 this year, and has grown past the boy-toy hottness into a very striking man, and I tell him that all the time as well, whether it be in text messages, phone calls or face to face.
> I LOVE it when he does yard work...and he laughs at me when I go and stand outside so I can watch him try to start the weedeater or lawnmower....he was doing side work last week and said he almost had the maintenance guy take a picture for me (landscape work) of him working because he knows I like it so much.


THIS, my friends, is exactly what I desire. Mommybean, I am envious!


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## Mommybean (Jan 22, 2009)

Believe me, our relationship has taken a LOT of work...we are still working on it. He has cheated before, recently even...but the last time, was truly his "rock bottom", and it has been a significant turning point in our relationship. He realized how many of his behaviors actually stem from his environment when he was growing up, and that if he continued them, he was going to lose the most pure love (his words) he had ever had. Now, with him in therapy, and on anti-depressant meds (which have not dulled his emotions at all, more so enabled him to sort his thoughts out better)...we are both very happy in the bedroom and out of it. I fought like hell to get to this place, and I am just glad that he got out of his own way, because I really believe that between us, the best is yet to come!


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

nwguy111 said:


> What's the best way to address this subject? Would asking my wife the question, "how can I make myself more attractive to you?" be a good approach or not? Or would it be better just to state (as you've done), "if you won't acknowledge me, then I'll find another who will."


It's an internal thing between you and you. It does not require discussing. Once you have woken up and realised that you are not appreciated, and your blood starts to boil with the fact that you've been a chump, and it's no-one's fault but yours, you are in the position to say "I'm on the verge of leaving you". And she will feel the truth behind the statement - and you won't be shy in spelling out the exact reasons why.

Once all that is on the table, she may decide you're worth fighting for, or she may let you sling your hook. Unless you can cope with either option... forget it. You may as well crawl back under your stone.

Nobody will place a higher value on yourself than you do. When she sees that you are placing a higher value on yourself, then she might automatically upgrade her own view of you. That's how this stuff works. Everything appears to be the other persons fault, but in reality it's all a projection from within. We subconsciously manipulate people into reflecting how we feel inside. 

When you no longer feel so worthless, you will stop wanting to be with a woman who reflects that. In turn that will manifest in her either falling in love with you, or you moving on.

That's what happened to me, but along the way, I also realised that I had not helped the situation by neglecting my wife in the early years. It was just youthful ignorance and unexamined selfishness. 

Since things got better, I have had insights into my past treatment of her which have caused me to have to say "sorry" repeatedly. But that part can only come after the other stages, otherwise it's just seen as creeping.

Every time you creep and beg, you go down on her value scale.


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## SFladybug (May 25, 2009)

MizSmith said:


> But what I can say is women crave less direct physical contact as a way to start our engines. Especially if it's been so long. I love sex myself but still need to be warmed up and direct sexual contact isn't always going to cut it. I like to be pursued little by little.
> 
> Holding hands
> Massage or rub ( I like the rub down..)
> ...


:iagree:

There are a number of quotes in here with which I would agree...one about not making assumptions about her feelings, but asking her to share. One earlier by MT about how you value yourself...but I don't know if I would go so far as demanding she give you the admiration you crave. Her sexual interest in you should not be your barometer for value. If you think it is, you will always be disapointed. You may actually want to explore co-dependency issues more deeply, just to see if there is something going on inside your head.

That said, in reading this post and a bit of your other one, you could be my husband.  Although honey if you are lurking here, come to bed and let's get naked instead 

If he were to post his frustrations with me, they would most likely sound a bit like you. Perplexed and angry at how often he feels like he does not measure up or is not attractive to me. Part of what draws me to this forum is to try to understand the differences in our sexuality by listening to other people's stories. 

It is possible her libido is much lower than yours. I usually don't think about having sex nearly so often as my husband seems to, even when we are close. Although, ironically, when I offer or request, he often clams up or gets tired....maybe a reaction to the years I did that:scratchhead:.

So, I have been experimenting with making myself more available and willing to have sex with him...just to see if it changes my feelings towards him or his "coping behaviors". I have only been able to try this recently because I have finally dumped some of my resentments. The results are mixed. There is a dance that is part of flirting :bounce::fish: which allows some give and take that is harder to get when marriage power struggles start up.

Also, you might want to investigate the symptoms of peri-menopause. It begins to hit many women in their 40's and can really begin to affect their sexual appetite. If there are other things blocking this .... resentments, you letting your own physical appearance and health slide, their own health issues or fears, or another person...it can make a woman dread being physically intimate. There were times I felt like throwing up because I felt so compelled to "service" his need.

We have recently both told each other we do not want to continue if we cannot work this part of our relationship out to be more satisfying to both of us. Unfortunately, it is still very tentative as to what that means. So often I really do need bit of what MizSmith describes...partly because I need to be reminded of the fun. If it's not fun for both people it becomes a bigger block to intimacy than a help.

I think you should tell her how important it is to you to feel intimate with her. Let her know you enjoy sex but even more desire intimacy with her and ask her to engage with you in research and experimentation to find the right balance for you both. Hope it goes better for you and good luck in figuring this one out. :toast:


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

nwguy111 said:


> Yes, I have felt for awhile that she's been losing interest. I offer her massages all the time. I'll fix a nice dinner, pour a couple glasses of wine, take her out for an evening, go for walks together, etc. Sometimes this works. Most of the time it doesn't. I never expect anything in return, but she always assumes there's a catch. I keep telling myself to be patient and kind, but it starts to wear on a person after awhile when they don't feel their needs are being reciprocated. At the very least, if she could show a physical attraction to me. This way, I wouldn't feel like she was simply servicing my needs every now and then.


Dude, this is NOT spicing it up!! Pull out a can of whipped cream or something and see what happens. Make it fun and NOT "goal directed" if you know what I mean. Love making can get horrifyingly routine if you don't change it! Don't stop the nice stuff, but try new things sexually. Look on line for ideas; askmen.com has some good stuff!


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## nwguy111 (Aug 26, 2008)

sisters359 said:


> Dude, this is NOT spicing it up!! Pull out a can of whipped cream or something and see what happens. Make it fun and NOT "goal directed" if you know what I mean. Love making can get horrifyingly routine if you don't change it! Don't stop the nice stuff, but try new things sexually. Look on line for ideas; askmen.com has some good stuff!


Good call! :iagree:

I've tried some of this in the past, but now's time to give it another go.


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## Confused101 (Jun 30, 2009)

I have a similar problem in my marriage, my husband would like sex every day but I am satisifed with only 2x per week or less. It's become a huge problem in our marriage. He has become more detached from me and less talkative and says it's because I don't want to have sex with him as often as he wants to.

I tell him, treat me well and emotionally connect with me on a daily basis and I will feel like having sex more, but mostly he's just grumpy ALL the time. If he'd only make the effort to be 'nicer' to me, he'd notice a difference in me..but he just doesn't 'get' it.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

I'm not going to read every page. 

I'm the woman and I'm the one who feels that sex is too infrequent.

He is VERY affectionate. He's most women's dream -- for the women who don't want to actually have sex. He's verbal, he's cuddly. However, what he has is some sexual issues.

We discussed it this morning. I feel that I miss him. He doesn't understand. I explain that the lack of sex is a problem and when he says it hasn't bothered him I don't understand. 

Truth is, he has some issues in that area. Less frequent sex makes him feel more successful when we do have sex.

And, he's right. If you're keeping score, he's spot on.

So, I'm wondering if I want to push him for more because his sexual satisfaction is also important.

While we typically hear about the man being the one deprived, sometimes it is the other way around. And maybe it is helpful to consider that less sex might mean better sex for the partner who has the lower drive. And, doesn't what they want/need count, too? 

To me, real love means accomodating the lower drive as much as most people tend to think it means accomodating the higher drive. In fact, I think it is a greater sign of love to be able to accept less, and then to pour all of that passion into those fewer encounters.

Again, I'm the woman. I do think about stepping out. I'm no saint. But if I ever did, I'd probably kill myself. My values don't allow that option. Further, I do love my husband. Loving him means accepting his limitations, too.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

To answer the question about orgasming... I will say that after orgasming I don't "need" (I'm not jonesing) for sex again. HOWEVER. It isn't like nothing happened the previous night. I'm more affectionate. I smile more. I admire more. I glow. 

It sounds as though your wife is uncomfortable with letting go. I'm so totally enamored with my husband after sex. But maybe she's afraid you're not going to be as satisfied as she is so she's reluctant to be effusive.


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

I need to find someone to validate my sexuality. Oh man, is that SOOO true. 

To me, sex = love. validation of not just my sexiness but my worth as a woman and a human. When I'm rejected or ignored, I feel put down, worthless, undesirable. The little kisses, hand holding, looks, smiles, compliments etc - I think I miss those the most. 

No flirting, no sex, not even any real cuddling for MONTHS had me thinking 'what did I do wrong? How can I fix it?' Now I'm just wondering - after being accused of 'sleeping around' when I haven't, if maybe that's the only course left for me.

Living the rest of my life as second fiddle to even the cat in his esteem is just too much.

Talk to her before it's too late. I made the mistake of taking my husband at face value when he said he just wanted a 'break' from sex and he had some 'issues' to work thru. I trusted him, believed in him. Now it's been almost a year since we had mutually satisfying sex (with one or two exceptions when he actually TRIED)
and now months since any sexual contact with me at all. And he's leaving me. And said he doesn't want a relationship but wants to find people to have sex with. I should have thrown more of a fit before - but I just tried to be nice. Stupid me. 

Don't let it get to that point!! Talk to her.


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## Chopblock (Mar 21, 2008)

I've come to the conclusion over the years that this is not a problem you can "discuss" your way out of. Notice how every time you try to tell her that your needs are not being met, she drags out a scoreboard and tries to make you feel like YOU are the greedy one.

Mark is right. I know exactly how you feel. We are stupid suckers who thought that if we just did a little bit more for our partners, they would be happy and they would give us what we need.

It doesn't work like that and it NEVER will.

You need to say "I am not getting what I want out of this arrangement" and MEAN IT. She KNOWS what you want, she knows EXACTLY what you want. She has just learned that she can get away with not GIVING it to you.

She needs to know that she can't get away with that anymore.

Whether she steps up to her responsibilities or leaves, you are better off.

Good luck.


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