# Teenage angst vs real problems



## frustr8dhubby

Hi folks,

I have mentioned in this section before about my oldest daughters self-esteem problems. But it seems to be going well beyond that right now and I don't know how to handle her.

She has completely pulled away from the family (that part I somewhat expect as a teen) but everything seems to suck for her even things she claims she enjoys. Her premise seems to be that if she can't be the "best" at something, why bother doing it at all..?? She also seems to be far too influenced by her "friends".

What got me the most worried recently was that she told me she took the Ivan Goldberg Depression Test online. I was trying to be supportive so I took it also. I got a 40. (Anything above 35 is considered high risk for depression). She scored a 77!!! I don't put a lot of stock into these kinds of things but it has me worried because some of the questions on there are about committing suicide, etc.

Just so you know, I have depressive traits so I know where she gets it but she has SO much going for her (more than I ever did). Obviously screaming at her doesn't work (my wife's favorite tactic  ) and trying to have an "adult" conversation with her about it does nothing. She has always been pretty mature for her age so we have always been able to have more "grown up" conversations with her about just about anything.

Am I just being a nervous nelly? Any advice on letting it alone vs knowing when to have real concerns??


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## Mavash.

My 12 year old son is going to be prone to depression. I have no doubt. He gets it from me. My answer is to put him in counseling NOW. Thankfully he's young enough that he likes the counseling. It gets him out of school (they pull him out of activity to do it) and he's able to talk about things that bother him to someone other than me (likely the source) of his angst.

I don't take depression lightly because I've suffered from it most of my adult life. Once it gets it's claws in you it's hard to overcome. I'd rather deal with it head on once I get ANY inclination it 'might' be a problem but that's just me.


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## Wiltshireman

OP,

I feel for you and the situation your family is facing.

I have two teenage daughter (16 & 17) last year my eldest was diagnosed with Fibromyalgia whilst we have all come to terms with and are finding ways to adapt to the physical limitations her condition entails the emotional aspects are harder to help her with. For my daughter no longer being able to keep up with her friends (walking down the street let alone dancing), the periods of intense pain (seeing her suffer is so hard), the side effects of her medication (un-natural sleep patterns etc), and missing days at college has lead to her feeling depressed and self harming. She did complete one of the online surveys (I do not know if it was the same one) and got a scary score but I think that all of these "self assessment" forms have a flaw the applicant often exaggerates their symptoms / feelings and then the result is a self fulfilling prophesy and if anything contributes to their downward spiral. We have been able to get our daughter some counseling / therapy through her college and there are signs that this is helping.

Please do not try and cope with this alone, talk with your daughter about going to the doctor to arrange "talking therapy" remember that any medication doctors give is only a short term prop for most people and not a long term solution.

My prayers are with you all.


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## frustr8dhubby

Thanks folks. She doesn't seem to want to talk to her school counselor, I have already asked about that.

So what type of counselor would it be? A family counselor or just a regular psychologist?


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## d4life

I am so sorry that you are going through this with your daughter. My oldest DD has very low self esteem, but I have blamed most of that on a boyfriend of hers when she was younger who made her feel like she was worthless. 

It is something that is so hard to get back once it is lost. We went to a family counselor and a psychologist too. I wish I could tell you that it helped us, but it didnt. Our case is different though. I do believe that if I had to do it all over again I would still seek this kind of help for her. It certainly didnt hurt.

May I ask if she has been through any thing that would have triggered this, or has she always been sort of down on herself? Is she involved in any kind of sports or dance or anything? 

The reason I ask is that I have seen over the years, mainly in my younger two who are involved in sports and cheer, they as well as their peers seem to have higher self esteem. This could be a way to increase her self esteem. If there is something that she shows interest in, let her try it. If she is weak in it, get her extra help. She will improve and her confidence will build. 

I'm sure that wont work with all kids, but I have seen it work with many over the years. 

Good luck to you!!


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## SarahSchmermund

Yes, a family counselor or a counselor with experience working directly with kids/teens. You can approach her from a stance of wanting to understand better. She was interested enough in depression/depressive symptoms to find something online and commit time to taking the inventory. You could potentially engage her about why she was interested in taking it and if she learned anything about herself or areas she might like support/help in. 

Teens do not have the life perspective that adults have, and their frontal cortexes (involved in decision making, considering long term consequences/benefits, etc) is still being developed, so often the severity of their emotions in the moment does feel like "the end of the world" (as some lament). While it seems like an over-exaggeration to us, it is an expression of the intensity and overwhelming nature of their emotional experiences. Accessing support (even if not a counselor, but a "mentor"/skills coach) to help her learn to tolerate and manage some of these feelings will serve her well now and in the future.


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## Runs like Dog

A few things. I took that test on a lark and scored an 8. I am a classic type 1 full on manic depressive who, when untreated has been institutionalized multiple times for both extreme mania and depression psychosis. I tell you this because I am very suspect of quick tests. 

Moreover while that test purportedly scores for age, it's clear in every day life to me to you and anyone else that adolescents experience emotions quite a bit differently than adults. They experience higher highs and exaggerated lows. Romeo and Juliet isn't about geezers.

Next, an honest diagnosis has to be made over the course of days or weeks taken at different intervals different times of day. Just like blood sugar. 

As Sarah above recommends, you should gently broach the subject privately and get her to come around to the view that perhaps she could seek, with your help, something more professional in the way of assistance. And if so work only with someone with a known track record of working with people her age and perhaps mostly young women.


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## 3Xnocharm

My 16 yr old daughter has had esteem and depression issues since she had problems with some girls back in 7th grade. (there was cyber bullying involved) She is an amazing kid, she really is, but she doesnt see it most of the time. She and I have a very open relationship, she comes to me with everything..however when I had noticed her posting more and more posts on her Twitter about how sad she was all the time, I realized it was more than what she had been admitting to me. When I approached her about it, she asked if she could go to counseling. I found a therapist who specialized in kids/family, and she found it to be very helpful. She did diagnose her with clinical depression, so our family dr prescribed her antidepressants. She has been doing really well for the most part. She asks to see her therapist when she feels she needs to. She did have a backslide the other week, she had a panic attack at school that came back to being down about herself. She was feeling better within about two days after that. 

Be proactive. If you think she is depressed, insist that she get some help, get involved. Usually I can tell when my daughter is just being "angsty" and when she is really struggling, its become kind of an instinct at this point. Depression runs in my family, as well as in her dad's family, so I am not surprised that she has issues.


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## frustr8dhubby

d4life said:


> May I ask if she has been through any thing that would have triggered this, or has she always been sort of down on herself? Is she involved in any kind of sports or dance or anything?


Not that I know of and she has always had some of the esteem issues but it hasn't always been this bad.

She was a competitive gymnast for 7 years but last year stopped that and switched to competitive cheer.


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## frustr8dhubby

SarahSchmermund said:


> Yes, a family counselor or a counselor with experience working directly with kids/teens. You can approach her from a stance of wanting to understand better. She was interested enough in depression/depressive symptoms to find something online and commit time to taking the inventory. You could potentially engage her about why she was interested in taking it and if she learned anything about herself or areas she might like support/help in.


I did and apparently a friend prompted her to take it. When I try to pry for where/what she is struggling with she doesn't know (or at least tells me that she doesn't know).


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## frustr8dhubby

3Xnocharm said:


> My 16 yr old daughter has had esteem and depression issues since she had problems with some girls back in 7th grade. (there was cyber bullying involved) She is an amazing kid, she really is, but she doesnt see it most of the time. She and I have a very open relationship, she comes to me with everything..however when I had noticed her posting more and more posts on her Twitter about how sad she was all the time, I realized it was more than what she had been admitting to me. When I approached her about it, she asked if she could go to counseling. I found a therapist who specialized in kids/family, and she found it to be very helpful. She did diagnose her with clinical depression, so our family dr prescribed her antidepressants. She has been doing really well for the most part. She asks to see her therapist when she feels she needs to. She did have a backslide the other week, she had a panic attack at school that came back to being down about herself. She was feeling better within about two days after that.
> 
> Be proactive. If you think she is depressed, insist that she get some help, get involved. Usually I can tell when my daughter is just being "angsty" and when she is really struggling, its become kind of an instinct at this point. Depression runs in my family, as well as in her dad's family, so I am not surprised that she has issues.


This is us almost to a T right now. And honestly I have probably already blown it. I am over the top angry with her right now so I think she has shut down completely on me.

I understand and sympathize with her depressive traits, I really do. I have struggled with them myself for years. But she is complacent and lazy and I cannot stand that. I don't expect her to be the best by any stretch but I expect her to put forth some effort, especially if it is an area that she claims to actually enjoy.


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## Mavash.

frustr8dhubby said:


> This is us almost to a T right now. And honestly I have probably already blown it. I am over the top angry with her right now so I think she has shut down completely on me.
> 
> I understand and sympathize with her depressive traits, I really do. I have struggled with them myself for years. But she is complacent and lazy and I cannot stand that. I don't expect her to be the best by any stretch but I expect her to put forth some effort, especially if it is an area that she claims to actually enjoy.


As someone who has struggled with depression most of my adult life it's not so easy. What looks like complacency and laziness is actually an inability to get out of the 'muck'. I describe it as being stuck in tar and I can't get out. Total blackness, hopelessness, etc. I think also it's worse on women than it is on men. Men are programmed to 'suck it up' and get on with life but women can't do that. I know I couldn't.

Have you considered therapy for yourself? I suspect her depression is triggering YOU and you need help dealing with your anger towards something she likely can't control without professional help.


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## frustr8dhubby

Mavash. said:


> As someone who has struggled with depression most of my adult life it's not so easy. What looks like complacency and laziness is actually an inability to get out of the 'muck'. I describe it as being stuck in tar and I can't get out. Total blackness, hopelessness, etc. I think also it's worse on women than it is on men. Men are programmed to 'suck it up' and get on with life but women can't do that. I know I couldn't.
> 
> Have you considered therapy for yourself? I suspect her depression is triggering YOU and you need help dealing with your anger towards something she likely can't control without professional help.


As I said, I am depressive too so I get it ( hell I am on Zoloft ).

BUT, I hadn't thought about men vs. women in this regard so I appreciate that insight.

AND maybe you are right about it triggering me too. I have always had esteem problems because I really don't have much to offer other than a decent IQ. She is pretty, witty, artistic, intelligent, and a pretty decent athlete. So maybe it is really hard for me to have the level of sympathy for her that I should have...


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## Mavash.

frustr8dhubby said:


> As I said, I am depressive too so I get it ( hell I am on Zoloft ).
> 
> BUT, I hadn't thought about men vs. women in this regard so I appreciate that insight.
> 
> AND maybe you are right about it triggering me too. I have always had esteem problems because I really don't have much to offer other than a decent IQ. She is pretty, witty, artistic, intelligent, and a pretty decent athlete. So maybe it is really hard for me to have the level of sympathy for her that I should have...


I've had anger towards my son for his 'moodiness'. I was already in therapy so I knew that it was the part where he was causing me to look in the mirror. My son represented everything I hated about myself. I hated being moody and depressed.

For me having a son that's just like me was like taking the very worst parts of me and making it into another human being. I had a hard time seeing his value and worth because I couldn't see it in myself. 

My son is super smart, he's cute, witty, cuddly, loveable, sweet and when he's not moody quite fun to be around. But all I did was focus on his moodiness. When I began to see him (and myself) in a more positive light things began to change. But first I had to love myself depression and all - that was tough.


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## 3Xnocharm

frustr8dhubby said:


> Not that I know of and she has always had some of the esteem issues but it hasn't always been this bad.
> 
> She was a competitive gymnast for 7 years but last year stopped that and switched to competitive cheer.


My daughter did competitive cheer too, for 7 years! This is the first year she hasnt since she was 8 years old, she got burnt out. I think that is part of the reason that her self esteem issues are not WORSE than they are, actually, cheer was good for her.

Is there another female in your family that she may be open to listening to? Maybe an aunt or cousin or something? What about her mom, where is she while all this is going down?


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## frustr8dhubby

3Xnocharm said:


> My daughter did competitive cheer too, for 7 years! This is the first year she hasnt since she was 8 years old, she got burnt out. I think that is part of the reason that her self esteem issues are not WORSE than they are, actually, cheer was good for her.
> 
> Is there another female in your family that she may be open to listening to? Maybe an aunt or cousin or something? What about her mom, where is she while all this is going down?


None of either of our families are close geographically. 

Here is the tough part where my wife is concerned. My daughter in the past has always talked to her about everything (and I mean everything). BUT, my wife has zero tolerance for our depression/moodiness because she cannot comprehend it. She likes to pretend everything is rosy whether it is or not (it is a family trait).

So she has a tendency to berate an issue. She cannot say her piece and move on, she goes on and on about it so I think my daughter shuts down eventually.


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## frustr8dhubby

Thanks coffee4me. I did try something similar to that in our last discussion but I started off all wrong. I was already pissed off so I am sure it didn't come out the way I intended it.

My question was more like "how would you like us to interact with/treat you" but I think it probably came off more defensive rather than her feeling like I was genuinely asking her opinion.

And thanks for the kinds words, I am trying...


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## SarahSchmermund

frustr8dhubby said:


> I did and apparently a friend prompted her to take it. When I try to pry for where/what she is struggling with she doesn't know (or at least tells me that she doesn't know).


She honestly likely doesn't know, and that's often one of the hardest parts about it for teens. It's typical for them to just feel "blah" and have no real reasons/understanding "why." And then often to add to it, their friends/parents/whomever tell them they "shouldn't" feel that way, so they are left feeling a) confused about why they feel this way in the first place and then b) stupid for feeling this way at all. 

There are a lot of different developmental tasks and traits that go along with being a teen (including, but not limited to, huge hormone fluxes) that also easily feed/antagonize depressive symptoms, so while they might be mild-moderate in an adult, they are much more sever in a teen. 

There is a great article I could send you, as well as provide additional information via message or email, if you're interested.


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## frustr8dhubby

Sure, please.


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## turnera

frustr8dhubby said:


> This is us almost to a T right now. And honestly I have probably already blown it. I am over the top angry with her right now so I think she has shut down completely on me.
> 
> I understand and sympathize with her depressive traits, I really do. I have struggled with them myself for years. But she is complacent and lazy and I cannot stand that. I don't expect her to be the best by any stretch but I expect her to put forth some effort, especially if it is an area that she claims to actually enjoy.


So...her mom yells at her. You express anger at her. You make it clear that she doesn't meet your standards. 

Where is the nurturing in all this? The talking about stuff? The one she feels safe to talk to? The one who loves her unconditionally, but still expects great things of her?

No kid will stay open to a parent who displays anger. They just won't. You are the enemy, by default, unless you approach her in a healthy way.

Read up on authoritative parenting. 
Authoritative Parenting - What Is Authoritative Parenting
See if you can start changing the dynamics in your house. And by all means take her to a counselor. If she balks, tell her you need her to go with YOU, for YOU.


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## frustr8dhubby

turnera,

I'm not sure I get where you are coming from. I think I am trying to do what you are describing (though failing currently admittedly). Where have I implied that she doesn't meet my standards? All that I really expect of her is to try and to push herself a little in anything she attempts.

I am not always angry with her by any stretch I am just going through a tough time with her right now. She has always been on the distinguished honor roll until this last marking period. I am upset with her, not so much because she didn't make it again but that she doesn't seem to care.

I would like to believe that she should feel safe to talk to me, though she usually doesn't, she defers to her mother. Which I personally find odd given their dynamic but I usually chalk it up to a female thing.

I guess probably the biggest frustration I have right now is that I don't know how to help her, and yes, at times, that can come out as anger. She has sooo much potential but no self-motivation.

Ugh, sorry I think I am just rambling at this point...


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## turnera

Not caring is a rite of passage for teens. 

And I'm sorry, but anger just doesn't work with teens. It just doesn't. I'm not trying to dis you, just point out choices you make that are more detrimental than helpful. It's a teen's job to push her parents, to test the edges, and it's your job to be ready when they do, to NOT take anything personally, to have a ready response to everything, to show them ahead of time what the consequences will be for not continuing to meet previous expectations.

My DD22 knew ahead of time growing up that, if she got a C, she would lose time on her computer until the next report card came out. Other times, it was the phone, or the tv, whatever was most important to her. It was no skin off my nose if she lowered her GPA, it was her life. But I wasn't going to let it go without a consequence, as it was my job to be her teacher and guide and mentor, and especially my job to teach her that you only hurt yourself if you screw up (via the consequences). Even using this logic-based approach, she didn't really push herself and now regrets it, admits she should have listened to me more, because she's having to scramble to improve her GPA to get into a PhD program. But that's just what teens do. That's another part of growing up.

Did you read the article?


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## ShawnD

frustr8dhubby said:


> Am I just being a nervous nelly? Any advice on letting it alone vs knowing when to have real concerns??


Concerns about depression are well-founded. Depression caused considerable damage to my own life, and it cost tens of thousands of dollars due to lost wages, poor financial decisions, and general laziness. I've had long periods of unemployment or jumping between jobs due to depression. I dropped out of the first year of college due to depression, and several of my friends had this problem as well; luckily I could just go back the following year. General laziness would be things like getting ripped off instead of bargain hunting. When high as hell and feeling good, I'll figure out where to get killer deals on everything. When depressed, I paid $30 for a car charger for my phone from Best Buy just because I wanted to get it done as quickly as possible, so I paid about 6x more than I should have (I just bought a multi-type charger for $5 a few days ago at a liquidation store). When depressed, I also didn't shop around for stuff like insurance rates, phone rates, internet purchases, etc. This is seriously one of the most expensive illnesses you can have. Over the course of a life time, it's probably more expensive than getting cancer treatment.

Sexist comment: make sure she's on birth control since it's hard to make good decisions when depressed. Thinking that having a baby or getting married will fix depression is retarded, but that's exactly how depressed people think. Whatever we don't have, that's what the solution could be. I'll be happy if I just had new shoes, a new car, a douchy unemployed boyfriend, and maybe a baby! I'll even dress the baby to match the color of my car! Of course, that doesn't work because depression is internal. Lots of incredibly rich and successful people are depressed, and they have everything anyone could possibly want.

One of the most obvious yet overlooked causes of teen depression is lack of sleep. People try to think of teens as adults who lack experience, but they're actually closer to infants because the brain is rapidly growing during that time. A teen brain needs about 9-10 hours of sleep _every day_ to be functional. I remember waking up at 7am during my high school years because school started at 8am, so that means I should have been going to bed at 9pm every day. I was going to bed around 11pm, so I was actually sleep deprived on most days for several years. That was definitely part of the problem.


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## frustr8dhubby

Hey folks, been a while. SO, we just found out that she has tried cutting. I am out of my mind!!! I think I would be less upset/surprised if she told me she was smoking dope.

WTF is the attraction to cutting? I cannot even fathom what the draw would be. At least with drugs they are supposed to make you feel better or feel nothing...

Do I need to get her help NOW??? She says it was stupid and she knows that she is better/smarter than that but I am REALLY concerned now... I haven't talked to her in depth about it yet because she and mom were in Florida for a cheer competition. But I don't even know what to say to her..


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## that_girl

It could be normal hormones with some depression in there.

I think many teens are depressed for a while.

Try to find a therapist who specializes in teenage issues. It's helped my 13 year old a lot.


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## that_girl

Oooh read your last post.

My 13 year old has cut twice. I didn't get upset. I didn't yell. I didn't make a big issue, per se. Yes it's scary, etc. but if she's a quiet one or pensive one, it's how they relieve their stress. It's a complete release as a cigarette may be or...picking at something or whatever. It releases.

I suggest reading up on it online and getting a true psychologist that works with teens. 

My daughter did it once, and i found out, got her in therapy and took her door lock off (put on to keep little 3 year old sister out), and told her if she does it again, there will be body checks.

Well, she did it again and the school found out (which you can go to to get GREAT referrals for therapists that work with this...counceling office at the school) and her school is aware (gave her a mentor) and I do weekly body checks. 

I didn't yell. Didn't get angry. DID NOT PUNISH HER. Didn't give attention to the cutting. I cried a bit...told her I'm supposed to protect her, even if from herself, and loved the shet out of her more than I already did.

It's a cry for help. It's a release of stress. Teach her a new way to release pressure....and love love love her. Talk with her. Don't get angry. It's scary but it's not the end of the world.

Before you talk to her, read up on cutting so to not devalue what she's doing and why she's doing it. I didn't want to add to my daughter's issues. She admits she just didn't know how to process her feelings. This was a quick release for her.


Blessings.


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## turnera

frustr8dhubby said:


> WTF is the attraction to cutting?


Something to accomplish for bored kids who spend more time in front of tv/computer/phone instead of playing sports and reading and accomplishing things and solving tasks and meeting high expectations.


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## that_girl

Wow. "Something to accomplish for bored kids..."

Do some research.

My child has clubs, she's in debate, she's on leadership, in the advanced studies and she cut.
She's never been into sports. She's an artist.


I find your "opinion" quite wrong and a bit snarky.


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## frustr8dhubby

that_girl,

I haven't yelled at her, I am just freaked out right now. We actually talked the the school counseler a couple of weeks ago before we even knew about this. The school counselor met with her and actually suggests that she needs sleep therapy, which I agree with. She is basically is an insomniac.

turnera,

But she is fairly active. She has been in competitive gymnastics and now cheer since she was 6.


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## that_girl

Your child isn't bored and even if she was, that doesn't mean she'd cut. 

Glad you didn't get angry. I know you're scared. I was freaked out too...but it just opened up WAY MORE conversation in this home.


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## turnera

that_girl said:


> I find your "opinion" quite wrong and a bit snarky.


*shrug*

Fifty years ago, before electronics were invented, kids didn't cut. They were too busy.


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## turnera

frustr8dhubby said:


> turnera,
> 
> But she is fairly active. She has been in competitive gymnastics and now cheer since she was 6.


 I'm speaking of a psychological place, hubby. You can have your life filled with stuff, and still be bored, unfulfilled.


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## that_girl

turnera said:


> *shrug*
> 
> Fifty years ago, before electronics were invented, kids didn't cut. They were too busy.


My bad. I didn't realize I was talking to a specialist.


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## that_girl

Wait. 50 years ago was 1963. Kids were doin LSD and stuff. lol.

In any case, it's a blanket statement to say that kids cut because they are bored. You clearly haven't done any reading on it.


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## Thoreau

Is she an emo type?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## frustr8dhubby

It is funny you ask that. She is actually a hard kid to nail down. She was avid about One Direction a few months ago, now she is into some type of "goth metal" for lack of a better term.


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## Thoreau

That's what I thought.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## that_girl

It's funny the stereotypes people put on cutters.

The goth metal should stop. Although I listened to that and didn't cut or try to kill myself or others.

My kid listens to acceptable music and hates my hard stuff.

What I'm saying is, sometimes it's deeper than the music or clothes (I was a goth and wasn't into drugs or this crap until later)...the girl just needs to release and doesn't feel like she has anyone to listen to her...or it's something she doesn't want to talk about.


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## Tigger

turnera said:


> Something to accomplish for bored kids who spend more time in front of tv/computer/phone instead of playing sports and reading and accomplishing things and solving tasks and meeting high expectations.


Have to agree. This type of thing was never heard of when I was growing up or when my kids were growing up.

I think it is peer pressure. One of their numb skull friends does it and they want to do it to or they hear about some celebrity doing it so they think it is cool.

All the activities sound like competitive things. Why does she do those activities like leadership and debate? 

Does she have regular chores and do volunteer work?

Kids have way too much idle time on their hands and think about doing dumb things.

and yes, I do have a degree in psychology.


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## that_girl

Oh, then thanks for that expert advice!


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## Lyris

turnera said:


> *shrug*
> 
> Fifty years ago, before electronics were invented, kids didn't cut. They were too busy.


Well, 40 years ago they were doing stuff a lot worse than cutting. Puberty Blues: Kathy Lette, Gabrielle Carey, Rebecca Macauley: 9781743110072: Amazon.com: Books 

But nice simplification. Too busy? Doing what? Healthful farm chores? 

Kids today are under far more pressure and have far less free time than the average teen in 1963. My mother was a teen in the 60s, and in her words, "a drover's dog could have got into uni when I was leaving school." Add to that zero youth unemployment, an ever-growing economy and general optimism about the future and I'd say the teens of the 60s and 70s had a pretty easy deal. Except for the poor buggers sent off to Vietnam, obviously.

Love, support and good counselling is what teens who cut ned. Not judgement, hysteria and blame.


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## Wiltshireman

frustr8dhubby said:


> WTF is the attraction to cutting? I cannot even fathom what the draw would be. At least with drugs they are supposed to make you feel better or feel nothing...


My eldest daughter (now 17) went through a stage of depression and did the "cutting thing". 
She said that she could not cope with the emotional pain she was under and that by cutting herself she only had to deal with the physical pain. 
That sort of made sense to me as I know I have used the "burn" of repeated heavy exercise in the same way.


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## that_girl

I have 2 tattoos. Both done during emotional times. A good release.

But to those here who just assume a child is bored or doesn't have chores, etc, you need to read up on cutting.

I have degrees too!  No kidding! And I read. And I speak to specialists who deal with cutting. It's just a way of coping with stress because the child doesn't feel comfortable talking to anyone and/or they truly don't know what they feel but they know cutting makes them feel better.

Judge all you want, say you don't get it ...fine. But to just pass it off as boredom or something idle children do is stupid. Yes, stupid. It shows no knowledge on the issue. And if my child's psychologist said she was cutting because she was dumb and bored, we'd have words.


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## frustr8dhubby

that_girl,

I wasn't meaning to imply that her music choice defines her in any way. In fact I am happy that she has found an outlet in music. I am not one that believes that music drives you to act in any specific way (unless you are already mentally unstable).

I actually argue with my wife to back off of her and what she listens to. Back in her day I am sure Led Zeppelin was devil worship music too..


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## that_girl

Google what she is listening to. Some of that goth music is very dark. Led Zeppelin is like angel's music compared to some of that.

But just talk to your girl. Let her know you know she cuts.


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