# Wife in contact with Ex



## hmtintruder (Oct 19, 2015)

Hi, this is my first post! I think like most people I came here only after something went south in their relationship and are looking for advice or at least a place to vent. 

Here's some back story (kinda long, sorry):

Though not legally married, I call my SO my wife. We've been together for 8 years. When we first met we both were friends with our ex's (1 for me, 2 ex's and a friend with benefits for her.) Over the course of the next ~1.5 years things got out of hand from her side. I'll also say that all 3 of her's lived out of state, so anything that happened with them was over social media.

I'll spare details of which ex said what, but there were repeated situations of them talking sexually, running off together and getting married, still being infactuated with her, etc... All this time she reciprocated some things and most of the time didn't respond to it. I took it as them being disrespectfull of her, me, and our relationship and we had many many arguments about it and came close to breaking up on several occasions. I was also offended that she never told them to stop or that it was innapropriate.

Then, she got pregnant. This stuff was still going on and under impending parenthood I made the decision to step in because I didn't want the stress of this along with being a new parent. They weren't going to stop and she wasn't going to stop them. So, seeing as they all are out of state I use social media to send them a message saying to f*** off. And they all do. Ex #3 is surprisingly understanding about it. She agree's with it that it's the best course of action too.

Fast forward 6 years and we now have a home, 3 children, and all that good stuff. Things are great with us. A few months ago Ex#3 requests her on facebook (i found this out after the fact) and she declines. Then about a month ago she starts messaging him and they are friends again. I find this out on social media (the bane of my existance!!). She refers to him as an "old flame" and good it is to have him back in her life. She almost immediately gives him her phone number and they have an hour long phone call and are texting semi regularly.

I'm angry about it and confront her the next day. She says that she thought we were in such a good place with our relationship that I wouldn't mind. SHe's always regarded him as a good friend (before they dated), and she's always regretted not being able to talk to him. Also, after the years of parenthood she feels she's lost some of her identity and feels like she doesn't have friends that she can talk to on a deeper level. In an attempt to recover that, she says on of the things she wanted to be friends with him again. I tell her that my feelings havent changed and I don't agree with it at all.

But she won't end it and out of respect (and a request) for her, I haven't told him(again) to get lost. I feel angry, depressed, betrayed, lied to. It has caused significant strife between us for the last month and it just sucks. It feels emasculating that she chooses a relationship with her ex over the happiness of our relationship. Given that, I'm ashamed to talk to anyone about it.

She tells me that it's completly platonic. That she's grown to be able to handle herself if he were to become innapropriate, and she insists the same about him....that there's nothing there on both ends. I mostly belive that she won't get innapropriate. I don't trust him. In the past He wanted to fly her out and get married. He said that "they" didn't end in their hometown. I've got burned pretty bad in the past with these guys so I'm untrusting. If he were to become innapropriate, I don't know that I'd trust her to give him the boot since she values him so much as a friend.

I guess I'm sort of going along with it and I ask lots of questions ( what they text about, if there are phone calls, etc) I also am very open about my feelings about it and I don't feel like she really cares. This thing is tearing me up and she doesn't stop. It's like every days it goes on, she's spitting in my face.

So we're just at a standstill, neither of us wanting to compromise. It makes for crappy days. I go from angry to depressed to remorsful to ok almost constantly. This has affected how I treat her at times, my stress has gone through the roof (i was already stressed from work and school), and it's afffected work performance and how I act at home too.

So what do you guys think? I'll fill in any blanks that might help with advice. Sorry this was so long, but like I said, I have no one to vent to so this is the first time it's getting out. THanks everyone!


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Let me tell you what happened when I was in your situation. Long Story Short: My wife’s sister made friends on Facebook with an ex-boyfriend of my wife’s from HS days. He asked my SIL to give him my wife’s e-mail address so they can catch-up and my (stupid) SIL connected them. Well, I discovered the e-mails between my wife and her ex and I thought my head was going to explode. While the e-mails were fairly benign, it was clear to me that this guy was fishing. And to top it off this guy lived fairly close to us and suggested that they get together one day to talk about “old times”. Well the first thing I did was I copied the e-mails for myself and then I deleted them from her e-mail box. Then I deleted his email address from her address book and I put a block on his mail address so no e-mails could get in from him or out to him. I sent him an e-mail from my mail account and said that if he tried to contact my wife again, I would be having a conversation with his wife. I blocked Facebook at the router (no access to Facebook for anyone in the house) and then I waited for my wife to say something. When she did, I told her I found the e-mails, which as I said were benign, and I said that I didn't like her being in contact with an ex-boyfriend without my knowing about it. After a very heated discussion I told her if she wants to have a relationship of any kind, no matter how innocent, with her old HS boyfriend, she has to leave the marriage; I had no plans to make it easy for another guy to hit on her. I also told her that when the kids ask me why they can't access Facebook, I will tell them it's because their mother is talking to other men on line. After a week, she agreed not to contact him again.

Needless to say this changed our relationship a bit. This is a woman that I love with all my heart; the only woman for me since I was 21. I was really having second thoughts on how I handled the situation (and I did make mistakes, the story is much longer than above) so I sought advice from TAM. After getting 20 pages of responses and reading the boards for a month, there was no doubt in my mind that I did the right thing, mistakes and all. Yes, the relationship took some damage because I was a bull in a china shop, but it was worth it, given that I may have prevented myself from being played for a fool. The main thing I learned from TAM was there is no room for EX's in a marriage. A marriage is between two people, not three and I'm willing to bet that if I didn’t react, my wife could have been, at the very least in an emotional affair, if not banging this guy at some point.

You can take away what you want from my experience, but I think that you are putting your relationship at great risk if you allow this to continue one more day. You just have to say, him or me; choose. If she chooses him, then tell her to get the f*ck out.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

If you don't shut this down, it is going to get *much, much worse*.
You have to let her know that this is unacceptable. Opposite sex "friends" are dangerous enough, but exes of any kind are absolute poison. If they have had sex in the past, it takes very little to start up again.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

htmintruder,

You and your wife both need to read a book by the late Dr. Shirley Glass called "Not Just Friends."

You can get it off of Amazon if it's not at your public library (there's a Kindle version, too).

Your wife is basically one step away from an affair. You'll have to nuke it at the source to shake up her world. Middleman's post was an excellent illustration of how to do it right the first time.

Your wife may throw a tantrum, but she can always divorce if she wants to live like a single woman again.

ETA: You don't have to be a giant d1ckead with your wife, but you must be firm and absolute in your resolve. Do not yell at her or incite arguments. Just be calm, blunt, and like a rock. If she doesn't respect your boundaries, you'll at least know where you stand.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

Facebook is usually referred to as Fvckbook. It should stop yesterday or there's a huge chance she'll be sucked into the spinning vortex. 

Shut it down!


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Additional info to start please. 

Why you have nevered married?
You and her's rough ages. 
How long old is your youngest? 
Do you both work? 
Living in fear and uncertainty is not living. That said is this really about her or your need to control?
How revealing is your choice of user name, intimidator?


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

Right now, the texts/conversations/e-mails may very well be totally innocent, but they may soon morph into:

Their lives since they parted
Their relationships since they parted
Their families
Their spouses
You
How you're a great husband
How you're an excellent father
How you're a wonderful guy
Your job
How your job keeps you busy
How your job keeps you away
How she sometimes feels lonely when you're away
How she sometimes feels a little overburdened at home
How she sometimes feels a little taken for granted
How she feels you don't ALWAYS listen to her
How she feels you don't ALWAYS understand her
How sometimes she feels like you're "not there" for her
How... okay, you're not ALWAYS such a wonderful guy
How she loved hearing from him
How she loves talking to him again
How she looks forward to his texts/calls/e-mails now
How she feels young again
How she feels attractive again
How she feels appreciated again
How it's been so, so long since you made her feel that way
How her eyes have now been opened
How she now realizes what she truly wants and needs
How she now realizes that you can't give her that
How she now realizes that she "settled" for you
How insensitive you can be sometimes
How you can be a real jerk sometimes
How she wonders if they would have stayed together
How she now realizes that she never really loved you
How she now realizes that she really loved him all along
How she ever could have fallen for a jerk like you
How you're the biggest a**hole she's ever known
How you're standing in the way of her true happiness
How you ruined her life
How she made a big mistake moving in with you
How she made an even bigger mistake letting him go
How they were really meant to be together
How she desperately has to get away from you
How she's definitely going to leave you
How she's already talking to lawyers
How they're going to live happily ever after...

...get the picture?

It doesn't always end this way, but sure as hell always STARTS this way!


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

how about inviting her on her and let her say her side of the issue, we will be glad to keep an open mind about it? 
also if she plans on continuing this, then she must agree to complete transparency...this mean
1. access to all emails between them - password and all
2. access to messages and absolutely NO deleting them 
3. Access to phone calls if need be

after all if there is nothing to hide then every thing is up to listening or reading...the moment she goes into secret mode is the moment that everything is shut down.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

JohnA said:


> Additional info to start please.
> 
> Why you have nevered married?
> You and her's rough ages.
> ...


I too would like to know why you're not married. Please don't say it's not important because you call her your wife so clearly it is. Unless this is an explicit agreement you've made many women will start to get resentful about this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

F-102 said:


> Right now, the texts/conversations/e-mails may very well be totally innocent, but they may soon morph into:
> 
> Their lives since they parted
> Their relationships since they parted
> ...


Love this post.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Xenote said:


> how about inviting her on her and let her say her side of the issue, we will be glad to keep an open mind about it?




I wouldn't recommend this. TAM needs to be his place.





Xenote said:


> also if she plans on continuing this, then she must agree to complete transparency...this mean
> 
> 1. access to all emails between them - password and all
> 
> ...




This at a minimum, but it really needs to be shut down now. There is no place in their relationship for this EX.


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## Stang197 (Aug 31, 2015)

Absolutely shut this down now. This will end bad if it is not completely stopped. Make sure she understands that from your standpoint it's non-negotiable. You are the man and you have to protect your family. After what I have been through I wouldn't hesitate to start divorcing a woman for this kind of reckless behavior.


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## hmtintruder (Oct 19, 2015)

JohnA said:


> Additional info to start please.
> 
> Why you have nevered married?
> You and her's rough ages.
> ...



Never married initially because of my trust issues with her. When I was over it, I gave her a ring as a promise that one day we would. The reason for the delay now is purely financial (can't afford to add her to all my benefits, lame I know.)

She's 28, I'm 31. OUr youngest is 2. I'm currently the only one working while she's home with the kids. SHe also goes to school.

I'll admit that a part of this is about me feeling like I lost the control I took when I told the ex's to scram. It's also about her in the sense that I absolutely love her and this is hurting us.

My name is not "intimidator" but hmtintruder. It's a silly name from a song which I've abbreviated in places.


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## hmtintruder (Oct 19, 2015)

F-102 said:


> Right now, the texts/conversations/e-mails may very well be totally innocent, but they may soon morph into:
> 
> Their lives since they parted
> Their relationships since they parted
> ...


Right now it's in the first 5 lines. She gets angry with me when I give her all these hypotheticals (further down your list) because she knows it's not going to go there, at least on her part. I've told her though that with time they might get more confortable with each other, or there will be a time when one or the other will be facing problems in their respective relationships and possibly turn to each other. SHe insists that she'll never allow it to get to that point and she'll shut it down and end the friendship if he tries. I don't know how much I believe that since she regards him as "such a good friend.


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## hmtintruder (Oct 19, 2015)

Xenote said:


> how about inviting her on her and let her say her side of the issue, we will be glad to keep an open mind about it?
> also if she plans on continuing this, then she must agree to complete transparency...this mean
> 1. access to all emails between them - password and all
> 2. access to messages and absolutely NO deleting them
> ...


As of now they are only texting. I asked about the initial phone call and she gave me a basic overview of it (catching up, families, current relationships - he's in one I might add, don't know how she feels about it) I ask about the txts and she pretty much reads them verbaitim to me and so far it's innocent as they mostly talk about music.

SHe hasn't told him anything about how this has caused us so much trouble this past month. She gives the reason that she doesn't want to talk about our relationship with him and she never will. I kind of feel that I should since he's the source of it....with the hope that he'd remove himself.


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## hmtintruder (Oct 19, 2015)

Stang197 said:


> Absolutely shut this down now. This will end bad if it is not completely stopped. Make sure she understands that from your standpoint it's non-negotiable. You are the man and you have to protect your family. After what I have been through I wouldn't hesitate to start divorcing a woman for this kind of reckless behavior.


When I initally confronted her about this I was exploding with anger and I told her on 2 seperate occasions that she was basically choosing his friendship over our relationship and that she should just leave. I was pretty much blind with rage so she didn't take it to heart. She's very confident that it's not going to get out of control which is why we're at a standstill. I was pretty insistant on speaking with him but she has asked me not to because it's between us and she doesn't want to talk relationships with him. I think she knows that he'll just remove himself. ANyway, I've respected that request so far, but it does eat me up everyday.


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## hmtintruder (Oct 19, 2015)

technovelist said:


> If you don't shut this down, it is going to get *much, much worse*.
> You have to let her know that this is unacceptable. Opposite sex "friends" are dangerous enough, but exes of any kind are absolute poison. If they have had sex in the past, it takes very little to start up again.


I've told her that realistically she could cheat on me (physically or emotionally) with anyone in the world. BUT, with an ex there is already an established past and it would be just that much easier to rekindle ( even if they did end badly)

I've told her that I could easily become friends with my ex, but I don't out of respect for us. SHe says that that's just my situation and that she would be OK if I ever did. I want to out of spite, but that's not me.

I do think we should follow the naked rule though....if you've been naked together in the past you've no business in her life now.


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## StilltheStudent (Sep 14, 2015)

So, not only is she forcing a standstill on this issue, she is also controlling your response to it.

End this now or start looking for a divorce lawyer.

There is quite literally no third option.

EDIT:
On a few occasions, very few in fact, people catch wind of a red flag before it fully develops.

What tends to happen is a modicum of rationalization in which the two partners pretend as though the red flag can be managed.

It never can be.

If your wife is not willing to abandon a relationship which makes you this uncomfortable she is literally telling you, to your face, that her re-kindled relationship with this man is more important than her current relationship with you.

I guess these things are easier to see from the outside than from within, but this is pretty straight forward.


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## hmtintruder (Oct 19, 2015)

StilltheStudent said:


> So, not only is she forcing a standstill on this issue, she is also controlling your response to it.
> 
> **she isn't controlling it per se, I'm trying to be respecful of her wish. In one of our discussions I told her if it continued I'd need transparency. Thus, she informs me texts or if a phone call is made. She'd never meet up with him (2 states away where her family lives) unless I was there. I told her that I still opposed it though and I would still be angry about it. She's said that she wants all of us to be this cohesive unit, where we could all be on some sort of friendly terms. I told her f*** that. I can always contact him whenever I wish and actually already have something written up.*
> 
> ...


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

I am not quite sure that anything else needs to be said. You have the option of ultimatum and that is the only thing that will work or you can go on for the rest of your relationship being PO'd until they decide they were really meant for one another. Good job then you can be PO'd and feel stupid for not following through.

All they do is talk about music.......................riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.


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## Stang197 (Aug 31, 2015)

At this point she probably doesn't think that this will get out of hand. My wife said the same thing earlier. It can and does often. You have to protect your family. That might mean putting divorce on the table. I think you ought to get into marriage counseling and explore boundaries. It will be alot easier to handle this now. The idea of close friends of the opposite sex will ruin your marriage. It's just a matter of time.


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## hmtintruder (Oct 19, 2015)

I should mention some things from a talk we had today. 

She said that if she were to end it, then what? I get what I want but what about her. What am I going to do to make her happy? 

I didn't really understand the question and she had no answer when I asked what she'd like me to do. I know it sounds controlling, but I'm only asking this of her for one person that had already been removed from her/our lives for over 6 years. I'm not asking this of ANYONE else in her life.

If she did end it, I'd obviously be happy she did it. After that though? I don't know what's next after that for us. I mean we can't just go back to our happy selves before this all happened. There would be some work to do, but I'm not exactly sure what. 

I'm actually going to see a counsler/psychologist/psychiatrist to maybe get some help with this. I've no one to talk to and this has me going crazy. This isn't the only reason I'm going, but it's the catalyst that's finally getting me to go after a long while of wanting to. She seems to be jealous about it that I get my way with her friend and then I get to go get help. I've thought about couples therapy, but I've read stories that make me weary. I think it'd better to go indivually, I'm not sure if shes open to that.


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## StilltheStudent (Sep 14, 2015)

At this point I am not sure what you are looking for.

You know that she is prioritizing this friendship over the stability and quality of her marriage.

You have actually accepted giving her full control over an interaction you find both inappropriate and a danger to your marriage. You outright said that she informs you when they have contact.

In other words, she does not tell you about what she does not want you to know.

You are staring the beginnings of an emotional affair in the face, your wife is telling you that she does not care about your concerns, she clearly does not believe you are serious about standing your ground, and she is in full control of the situation.

In a healthy marriage, when one partner explains to another that a friend-relationship is inappropriate and feels like a serious marriage-breaker in the making, supportive and tuned-in wives and husbands end said friend relationships.

Only people who want emotional validation from a source outside of their marriage do what you are describing.

That she is getting said emotional validation from a former lover is the nail in the coffin.

Put an end to this right now or what happens next is entirely on your shoulders my friend.


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## StilltheStudent (Sep 14, 2015)

hmtintruder said:


> I should mention some things from a talk we had today.
> 
> She said that if she were to end it, then what? *I get what I want but what about her. What am I going to do to make her happy? *
> 
> ...


This is not healthy in the least.

In fact, this sounds like a woman who does not love you.

And one who may have already delved into emotional cheating.

I am sorry man, but this is the beginning of the end for your marriage as it stands today.

Get a good night's rest.

And in the morning contact a lawyer and ask them for a consult on what a divorce will look like. Something tells me that you may need that information very soon.

Counseling may be solid for a long-term, self-improvement goal.

It does nothing for the immediate and clear problem.

This has all the hallmarks of an affair.


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## hmtintruder (Oct 19, 2015)

RClawson said:


> I am not quite sure that anything else needs to be said. You have the option of ultimatum and that is the only thing that will work or you can go on for the rest of your relationship being PO'd until they decide they were really meant for one another. Good job then you can be PO'd and feel stupid for not following through.
> 
> All they do is talk about music.......................riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.


Just music is true so far....I've seen the texts. Since music is a big part of both their lives though, I see the potential for this to escalate.


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## Stang197 (Aug 31, 2015)

hmtintruder said:


> RClawson said:
> 
> 
> > I am not quite sure that anything else needs to be said. You have the option of ultimatum and that is the only thing that will work or you can go on for the rest of your relationship being PO'd until they decide they were really meant for one another. Good job then you can be PO'd and feel stupid for not following through.
> ...


This will escalate. From what I read it sounds like she already values him over you. This should be a deal breaker. The only way she will respect you is if you are willing to leave her. That might wake her up to the damage this is causing.


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## hmtintruder (Oct 19, 2015)

StilltheStudent said:


> At this point I am not sure what you are looking for.
> 
> *I'm looking to vent and get the opinions of others. As I've said, I've no one to talk to about this and this is the first I've gotten it off my chest.*
> 
> ...


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

True, maybe it is just about music, but the fact that you have expressed your displeasure on her "friendship", and she's implied that she will pursue it regardless, and that you can go pound salt, does not sound like a supportive marriage partner.

Wake up, bud... she has NO RESPECT for you!


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

OP, you are not wrong to be concerned here.

Your relationship was off to an unstable start to put it mildly and you did the right thing back then in shutting all this nonsense down. You must have loved her a lot because if it was me, I would have dumped her back then when I didn't have kids or anything to tie me down to her.

Now, you need to do it once again. Sure the childbearing years seemed stable enough to you both, but she is dipping her toe back into familiar waters once again. The reason might be that you did not deal with the aftermath properly the last time.

What I mean by this is the question you are asking now - "what next after I shut this down" - should have been dealt with back then. In any case, you need to do it now and if she doesn't want to, then there needs to be consequences for her endangering the relationship/family and disrespecting your wishes.

This is not a tit for tat situation where she will drop a friend in return for something else that she gets as a reward or payment.

Make sure she understands this.


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## Mostlycontent (Apr 16, 2014)

hmtintruder said:


> I should mention some things from a talk we had today.
> 
> She said that if she were to end it, then what? I get what I want but what about her. What am I going to do to make her happy?
> 
> I didn't really understand the question and she had no answer when I asked what she'd like me to do.



I've been buried with work this time of year but I happened across this thread and had a similar experience so maybe I can help here.

My wife and I have been married for 30 years now but when we were newly married, she received a call from one of her ex boyfriends. Keep in mind that email and texting didn't exist back then so calling was pretty much the only option.

Well, when I heard about it from her, I went ballistic. I found out through our argument that she had been talking to him regularly, even while we were dating, and this made me even more angry. She said that they were just friends and couldn't seem to understand my hostility. 

Now I didn't know much back then but I did know this; it is very, very, very (and I can't say the word, very, enough) rare for a guy to want to stay a close friend to his ex unless he's still pining for her and secretly hoping that she'll come back to him. That's really the only reason why a guy would do that in my estimation. You see, we know how guys think and women, God love 'em, really don't. In her mind, there was no threat of anything happening because she didn't feel that way about him any longer. I trusted my wife but didn't trust him. My thoughts were that he was just waiting in the wings and would take any opportunity to undermine our marriage and I wasn't having any of it.

I told my wife that I felt threatened by it and that if he called again, she was to tell him that they are not to stay in communication with one another. Well she wasn't willing to do that so I then just outright forbid it. I told her that if she didn't tell him not to ever call again that I was outta there. Now I was incredibly impulsive in my youth so she certainly feared I would do it so she agreed to my terms.

He did call her about a month later and she told him that they couldn't talk any more and they were both sad about it.....according to her anyway.

The hurt feelings and anger never really got resolved though. So after a year or so, I relented on the no contact rule. In part because of how upset she had been and because I really wanted to make her happy. As it turned out, they spoke a few times over the course of the next year or so and once my wife and I started having children, she pretty much was absorbed in that and lost all interest. I don't believe they've spoken in over 25 years. I honestly wouldn't care if they did now as he's also been happily married for 20+ years.

Here's the thing, she really did value this guy's friendship and fought so hard initially to stay in contact with him because when we got married, we moved away to a new city where she didn't know anybody. She figured because she had no romantic feelings for him that she should have been able to do that. I, on the other hand, know how guys are so that's the reason for the initial impasse. 

I'd like to sit here and tell you that in my infinite wisdom that I decided to sit down with her and understand two things. Why was it so important to her to have a friendship with this guy and secondly, what did she get out of it. We actually did have this discussion but it was almost 10 years later.

You see, I was still angry and resentful that we even had this issue. I was still so ticked off that she would cause me such pain and I couldn't forgive her until I understood it. What she told me was that she felt that he needed a friend like her who was level headed. He was a musician and really didn't have any "smart" friends that he could rely on and talk to about things (with apologies to all the musicians out there). What she got from the relationship with him was feeling valued because he put a lot of stock in what she said.

Armed with that information and understanding that it wasn't anything nefarious, I was able to forgive her and move past it. She was also able to more clearly see things from my point of view as well. She now understands that a relationship with an ex just isn't appropriate and that it really wasn't her responsibility to be his confidant. He needed to find new friends he could rely upon. She also understood that it was hurtful to me and that she should have spent all of that energy on building a lasting friendship with her new husband.

So I think the real problem is that men and women come at this thing from completely different perspectives. 

You may want to ask your wife why she needs this relationship and what she gets out of it. Once you understand that, you can fill that need for her and convince her that she doesn't need it from someone else. It seems from the quote above like she's getting something from the ex boyfriend that either you won't give her or are unable to give her. Find out what it is.


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## hmtintruder (Oct 19, 2015)

Mostlycontent said:


> I've been buried with work this time of year but I happened across this thread and had a similar experience so maybe I can help here.
> 
> My wife and I have been married for 30 years now but when we were newly married, she received a call from one of her ex boyfriends. Keep in mind that email and texting didn't exist back then so calling was pretty much the only option.
> 
> ...


MostlyContent, thank you very much for your very thoughtful post. Probably the most helpful one so far :smile2:

I'll give a little more backstory from her part since it's mostly been one sided and maybe you'll have more to say.

Before all this happened she came to me and we had a talk. She's a stay at home mom to our 3 children. She's worked off and on, but for the last 2+ years she hasn't and has been home with them. She talked about how just being a mom she feels like she's lost some of her identity of who she was before. She doesn't feel fufilled with her friendships with all the other Moms as they only talk about kids and thats about as deep as they go. We do everything together and she wants to have time to go do things on her own (concerts, etc). Basically she wants some time to be an indivual and not just a Mom and not always tied at the hip with me. I get it, I understand totally because I'm only working/going to school/being a Dad too.

So once I find out about the friendship she tells me that they were friends before they dated and he introduced her to the music she loves today (she's very passionate about that) and then goes on to tell me about their 6-8 mo dating stint. From what she said it didn't seem like a good time overall and she wished they'd only stayed friends. She stated that he was always a good friend and that over all these years she's always valued that and wished that she could keep in contact with him.

So I asked her what exactly they were going to talk about since she said not relationships, not their past, etc so I wanted to know what the actual point of this was. Why was she putting us through all this grief if there was no real depth in the friendship. She said that she could always talk to him about music on a deeper level and that she's yet to find anyone local to do this with(after 9 years of being in our current city). And so that's what she's getting out of this. Someone who she can really connect with on that level musically.

Now, I enjoy much of the stuff she listens to and I go to concerts of her choosing fairly regularly and her and I enjoy them and she does the same with me. So it's not really something I can't or won't give her...it's maybe not as deep a level as she wants. Plus it's with someone that isn't me and I don't mean that in a bad way.

So wanting to gain more individuality, she decides that she wants to reconnect with old friends whom she values from back home, and she does. Some are girls, some are guys (who were just friends) and I don't mind or care about that. I trust her and want her to be happy.

BUT

When I find out about the Ex, it's a different story. They dated, lived together, had sex. Oh, lets not forget the disrespect he showed in the beginning of our relationship. She insists that's there are no romantic feelings there and hasn't been for years and that he feels the same. So we've got a quater life crisis going on and she's rekindleing a friendship with an Ex with the purpose of talking music which is super important to her. To me, to my gut, this has all the warnings of something that has the potential to get out of hand.

My thoughts are like yours. I trust my wife that she doesn't have feelings for him and I trust her that she wouldn't say or bring up anything out of line. I don't trust him though since he's done it in the past. What I don't trust her about however is this. If he were to start crossing the line, I don't know that she would stop it, end the relationship, and tell me about it. I asked her this and she said that she would. But given that she's said she values the friendship so much (enough to put us through such greif for a month) that I don't know or think she would end it or even tell me about it. There's also the fact that she initially kept this from me and I found out on my own (something she said she knew would happen) I just don't understand then why she'd keep it from me instead of talking to me like an adult. That has made me all the more suspicious.

So, at the moment I'm writing up my thoughts about all this and I'm going to talk to her. Basically, I'm going to take the advice that most have given here, and what I've wanted to do all this time, and give her the choice of his friendship or our relationship. Because I can't accept this anymore. I can't and won't even try. I've gotten burned in the past and I handled it, I'm not leaving the possibility open for it to happen again. She needs to understand that our relationship overall is more important and if she doesn't see it that way, well, it's not worth being in the relationship with me and it tells me how valued my love is. I really didn't want it to come down to an ultimatum, but it seems like the only way.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

HMTIntruder:

It does not matter whether she is okay with it or not. You are not living your life for her. You are living your life for YOU.

So if you are not okay with it, tell her: "I wont remain married to someone who has close personal relationships with other men."

Then her choice tells you your next move.

Then STOP DISCUSSING IT. She is wearing you down by discussing it over and over, and YOU are allowing it. You are not standing up for yourself, which is why she doesn't respect you.

Then if she insists on contact with him, sit her down and insist on dividing assets/divorce details.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

hmtintruder said:


> So, at the moment I'm writing up my thoughts about all this and I'm going to talk to her. Basically, I'm going to take the advice that most have given here, and what I've wanted to do all this time, and give her the choice of his friendship or our relationship. Because I can't accept this anymore. I can't and won't even try. I've gotten burned in the past and I handled it, I'm not leaving the possibility open for it to happen again. She needs to understand that our relationship overall is more important and if she doesn't see it that way, well, it's not worth being in the relationship with me and it tells me how valued my love is. I really didn't want it to come down to an ultimatum, but it seems like the only way.




I can tell you, from my own personal experience, that this is going to be very difficult to do and she is going to be very angry with you, but you can't back down. This is your "wife" and kids you have on the line. By today's standards I was probably wrong to take away my wife's ability to communicate with her EX, taking away her ability to make the choice on her own and electronically blocking her from contacting him (I was actually close to suspending her cell phone service too) but it showed her how serious I was about this. To this day she doesn't know that I threatened him with talking to his wife (unless my SIL found out and told her). 



Anyway, I strongly believe your "wife" is in the beginnings of an emotional affair and that is why she so insistent on not ending it; she likes it too much AND she told you she does. She doesn't realize that this is an EA, but you do.



If I were you, not only should you insist she end this immediately, but I would call him and tell him to end it and then (and this is a must) contact his wife/SO, if there is one, and tell her what you know about their contacts. Chances are she won't like it either and will help you. The decision you are making is the correct one, don't back down.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

@hmtintruder, what does girlfriend say about the fact that you two aren't married yet? Has the fact that you two are not married impacted the way she responds to you over time?

If marriage is something that she truly wants, then she may have lost respect for you over the years when for one reason or another, you wouldn't marry her. She may not consider your arrangement a "real" long term committed relationship and believes the rules for married couples do not apply to you two. Lastly may have lost hope that your relationship will ever end in marriage so she thinks "why bother?"

You stated earlier that you couldn't afford to get married. Is this because she's taking advantage of single mom programs (grants, tax exemptions) that you two don't want to lose?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

hmtintruder said:


> Never married initially because of my trust issues with her. When I was over it, I gave her a ring as a promise that one day we would. The reason for the delay now is purely financial (can't afford to add her to all my benefits, lame I know.)
> 
> She's 28, I'm 31. OUr youngest is 2. I'm currently the only one working while she's home with the kids. SHe also goes to school.
> 
> ...


So you won't marry her because you don't trust her but you'll knock out kids with her. And you won't marry her now because of your benefits? She'd good enough to have kids with and to have at home to take care of them and do for you but not good enough to marry. And you wonder why she's unhappy?

Think about the message you've sent about how much you really value her.

I'm a woman and am giving you a woman's perspective.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

The Middleman said:


> Let me tell you what happened when I was in your situation. Long Story Short: My wife’s sister made friends on Facebook with an ex-boyfriend of my wife’s from HS days. He asked my SIL to give him my wife’s e-mail address so they can catch-up and my (stupid) SIL connected them. Well, I discovered the e-mails between my wife and her ex and I thought my head was going to explode. While the e-mails were fairly benign, it was clear to me that this guy was fishing. And to top it off this guy lived fairly close to us and suggested that they get together one day to talk about “old times”. Well the first thing I did was I copied the e-mails for myself and then I deleted them from her e-mail box. Then I deleted his email address from her address book and I put a block on his mail address so no e-mails could get in from him or out to him. I sent him an e-mail from my mail account and said that if he tried to contact my wife again, I would be having a conversation with his wife. I blocked Facebook at the router (no access to Facebook for anyone in the house) and then I waited for my wife to say something. When she did, I told her I found the e-mails, which as I said were benign, and I said that I didn't like her being in contact with an ex-boyfriend without my knowing about it. After a very heated discussion I told her if she wants to have a relationship of any kind, no matter how innocent, with her old HS boyfriend, she has to leave the marriage; I had no plans to make it easy for another guy to hit on her. I also told her that when the kids ask me why they can't access Facebook, I will tell them it's because their mother is talking to other men on line. After a week, she agreed not to contact him again.
> 
> Needless to say this changed our relationship a bit. This is a woman that I love with all my heart; the only woman for me since I was 21. I was really having second thoughts on how I handled the situation (and I did make mistakes, the story is much longer than above) so I sought advice from TAM. After getting 20 pages of responses and reading the boards for a month, there was no doubt in my mind that I did the right thing, mistakes and all. Yes, the relationship took some damage because I was a bull in a china shop, but it was worth it, given that I may have prevented myself from being played for a fool. The main thing I learned from TAM was there is no room for EX's in a marriage. A marriage is between two people, not three and I'm willing to bet that if I didn’t react, my wife could have been, at the very least in an emotional affair, if not banging this guy at some point.
> 
> You can take away what you want from my experience, but I think that you are putting your relationship at great risk if you allow this to continue one more day. You just have to say, him or me; choose. If she chooses him, then tell her to get the f*ck out.


You're my fvck!ng hero. Now that is strong action that shakes a wavering wife up. They only respond to strength. Logic & niceness don't work on women that are following their "heart." 

There is NO reason that OP's wife needs to talk music with her old F buddy. My spider senses always go off with women that gravitate to having mostly male friends. Why does this guy feel he has to regularly call and text someones girl for. Talking music? She is a mother of 3 for God's sake. This guy wants back in her pants but his wife is too dense to see it or more than likely knows the deal and wants to take them off for him.

OP, 
Not being able to afford a wedding is not a good excuse. She is the mother of your 3 kids. A big wedding is not needed. If the reason is you don't trust her to be your wife, then why have kids with her?


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

If your girlfriend refuses to quit contact with an old boyfriend, she is already putting him before you. 

You, letting it slide, are giving a green light to her emotional affair. 

It's already an emotional affair or you wouldn't be here with frustrations. 

My old boyfriends contacted me first to say hi. Pretty soon flirty talk, then, " send me a pic." 

She is spitting in your face and he's her shoulder to cry on. 

Big mistake. BIG!!


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

jsmart said:


> You're my fvck!ng hero. Now that is strong action that shakes a wavering wife up. They only respond to strength. Logic & niceness don't work on women that are following their "heart."
> 
> There is NO reason that OP's wife needs to talk music with her old F buddy. My spider senses always go off with women that gravitate to having mostly male friends. Why does this guy feel he has to regularly call and text someones girl for. Talking music? She is a mother of 3 for God's sake. This guy wants back in her pants but his wife is too dense to see it or more than likely knows the deal and wants to take them off for him.
> 
> ...



This is exactly my question. He won't marry her but refers to her as his wife, which she's not. And the fact that he refers to he as his wife tells me he does think it's important, yet he's got excuses for not doing it. 

If it's not important then stop referring to her as your wife until such time that she actually is your wife.

I can almost guarantee she sees the fact that they're not married as a comment on how much he values her.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

jsmart said:


> You're my fvck!ng hero. Now that is strong action that shakes a wavering wife up. They only respond to strength. Logic & niceness don't work on women that are following their "heart."


Thanks for the sentiment, but I was scared sh*tless at the time I did it. I realized at the time that this could have gone south real fast and she could have dumped me. I also didn't have the benefit of the good folks here at TAM advising me back then. I just was following my gut on what I thought was the right thing to do. If I had the chance to do it over, I would have gave her one shot to do the right thing and stop the e-mailing on her own before making the choice for her and going nuclear. In the end, it had to end the same way: no contact or separation.

The OP has already given her more than one chance to do the right thing and she won't. As I see it, he has to go nuclear today, and make the choice for her. He needs to go directly to the OM and his SO and end this.


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

People, stick to the point. The issue here is that his lady is talking to an ex, but instead, you're ganging up on him because he's not legally married!


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

hmtintruder said:


> She said that if she were to end it, then what? I get what I want but what about her. *What am I going to do to make her happy?*


I agree with Still.

I read the bolded part and about a million red flags went up. Your partner isn't as committed to the relationship as you, fella. And based on her past and current actions, she likes to have beta-orbiters around.

Not good.

Would she be OK if you maintained close friendships with your former lovers?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

F-102 said:


> People, stick to the point. The issue here is that his lady is talking to an ex, but instead, you're ganging up on him because he's not legally married!


Seriously? It is very relevant because it's likely influencing how she views his level of commitment and the whole relationship. A woman who wants to be married and lives with a partner who has kids with her, calls her his wife, but doesn't actually marry her will become resentful and start to detach. And she may become vulnerable.

It's very important to understand the relationship as a whole to understand what's going on. If he was out every night with his buddies you wouldn't take the position that it had nothing to do with her talking to ex would you? 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## D.H Mosquito (Jul 22, 2014)

With the drudgery of every day life household bills and demands etc this man is more exciting to her than you and her head is turned by him you can tell by her responses and it also tells him that she is perhaps available after all these years despite you warning him off, I would contact him again and be more than firm in removing him from your relationship, She can then either chase after him or pick up the pieces and be a wife and mother again, This is similar who our/my problems started off and left me devastated and how i should have dealt with it when being constantly reassured that he's only a friend once his presence casts a cloud over the two of you then he is more than a friend and best to act on it and good luck


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

My ex's 1st affair was with an old HS flame, with whom she reconnected with on MySpace (pre-FB days). She also was a SAHM, with a lavish lifestyle, Mercedes is the garage, etc.

BTW, I don't care if you are legally married or not. That's just a piece of paper. The two of you have a committed, exclusive relationship *with kids*. Same rules apply. Because if you split, you are still on the hook for child support, and possibly alimony (depending on your State).


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> If he was out every night with his buddies you wouldn't take the position that it had nothing to do with her talking to ex would you?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't think he would have an issue if she spent the days, or even some evenings, chatting and having fun with her girlfriends.


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## DoneWithHurting (Feb 4, 2015)

Yo OP - my wife got very friendly with her GAY co-worker in the music field. They wrote together, would spend hours on the phone talking music. He became a fixture in my home and family... but... over time I got pushed out of her emotional space and they started making business decisions for US. It became too much and I started diverting my attentions to online boards dealing with very serious global issues. It became my outlet until i realized what had happened.... I had been replaced. I realized this when i found myself sitting in my home office listening to she, he and my kids laughing in the kitchen ABOUT ME! That was the straw that broke the camels back. I kicked him out of our lives and forbade her being in contact in any way shape or form.

WOW was she pissed.

But in the end, she does love me and value our relationship... as a matter of fact, she actually LOVED when i did it. Since reading TAM I have become much more protective of the marriage and monitor electronics regularly... chased off one fishing ex BF from FB. I do not allow any work one on one with any males now. She's not thrilled but has agreed and maintains this on her own.

My advice? Its either him or you. PERIOD. No wiggle room. One more contact and its over. Kick her out. Its the only way she will stop, and if she wont, then she doesn't respect or love you... you will never be happy again nor trust her.

As they say, you have to be willing to lose the marriage to save it.


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## Stang197 (Aug 31, 2015)

Dude you better listen to what people on this board are saying. This is a lot of hard learned lessons that you get to learn from. From my experience and what I have read on this board, you have a real serious problem starting. I wish I would have trusted my gut and found this board before things went south. If this turns into an affair, your in for some of the most unimaginable pain you will ever experience. Stop it now. Protect your family. This behavior will get out of hand.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

hmtintruder said:


> I should mention some things from a talk we had today.
> 
> She said that if she were to end it, then what? I get what I want but what about her. What am I going to do to make her happy?
> 
> ...


At the end of the day your W would rather keep this friendship and generate upset in her marriage than simply end it and move on with life which is exactly what her EX should have done. It makes very little difference who, what, when and where. Your W is defending the OM over you. 

Further, I can assure you your W would not be OK with you texting an old GF. That is just a load of crap. 

Stick to your resolve of ridding your marriage of the third wheel.


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## StilltheStudent (Sep 14, 2015)

DoneWithHurting said:


> Yo OP - my wife got very friendly with her GAY co-worker in the music field. They wrote together, would spend hours on the phone talking music. He became a fixture in my home and family... but... over time I got pushed out of her emotional space and they started making business decisions for US. It became too much and I started diverting my attentions to online boards dealing with very serious global issues. It became my outlet until i realized what had happened.... I had been replaced. I realized this when i found myself sitting in my home office listening to she, he and my kids laughing in the kitchen ABOUT ME! That was the straw that broke the camels back. I kicked him out of our lives and forbade her being in contact in any way shape or form.
> 
> WOW was she pissed.
> 
> ...


This is a very important point.

Things do not even need to advance to a physical stage of intimacy for the "friend" relationship to completely violate the basic idea of a marriage/civil union/committed LTR.

Your "wife" is replacing you as a source of intimate emotional validation with another man, who also happened to be a former lover.

The details really do not matter at that point.

Pay attention to the advice here my friend, the folks here tend to be pretty rock solid on this stuff.

My wife and I have a basic understanding about opposite-gender friends. We have set boundaries and we talk about the other person's comfort with any friendships that may or are developing. 

And we always default to protecting our marriage and our relationship with each other.

None of that is happening in your marriage right now.

Sitting and waiting is not an option.

Action will be tough and likely cause a great deal of hurt, but this is one of those times where you find out if your relationship really is as strong as you think/wish it is.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Not going to end well. This maybe another example of DEAD right.

Newton law of physics: for every action their is an equal and opposite reaction. 

The why in this case is more important then the what. Deal with her why and together find healthier solutions.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> Seriously? It is very relevant because it's likely influencing how she views his level of commitment and the whole relationship. A woman who wants to be married and lives with a partner who has kids with her, calls her his wife, but doesn't actually marry her will become resentful and start to detach. And she may become vulnerable.
> 
> It's very important to understand the relationship as a whole to understand what's going on. If he was out every night with his buddies you wouldn't take the position that it had nothing to do with her talking to ex would you?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree totally. 

I'm all for exclusivity in a committed relationship, and I do think what she is doing is disrespectful in that she is basically doing it in your face. 

But...until that bling is on her finger...all bets are off. Sorry man but that is the law of the jungle. She sees herself as the prize with two suitors vying for her affections. She may not see herself as quite committed to you as you think she is. 

On a primal level I can understand it. Competition between men for the hand of one woman was common practice throughout our history. In the 1800s it was common practice for a young lady to have several suitors. 

OP if this situation gives you such heartburn get off your ass, get down to the jewelry store, and get her a ring. Make it official. If she rejects your proposal then you know the truth.


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

I personally think if your not married and she is already showing you this level of disrespect I would just show her the door. I personally could give a crap less about how people view there level of commitment prior to the marriage. If she said she was in a exclusive relationship with you there nothing else needs to be said. Her response to you should tell you everything. She wants this guy in her life because she is thinking about him. Not you. I would just be polite and tell her she can have him and to get out. No need to fight. That has already been done and from the sounds of it you lost. 

There are far better women out there that don't pull this kind of xxit.

C


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## StilltheStudent (Sep 14, 2015)

You do not propose to someone as a means to stop them from going outside of your relationship for intimacy.

A ring does not end that.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

StilltheStudent said:


> You do not propose to someone as a means to stop them from going outside of your relationship for intimacy.
> 
> A ring does not end that.


We will agree to disagree.


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## StilltheStudent (Sep 14, 2015)

If wedding rings magically fixed these problems this forum would be a much quieter place.

And sorry, but, "Marry me or I will start emotionally replacing you with other men despite the fact that we have built a family together," is emotional blackmail.

If that is the basis of your marriage, you are more f***ed than you know.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

StilltheStudent said:


> If wedding rings magically fixed these problems this forum would be a much quieter place.
> 
> And sorry, but, "*Marry me or I will start emotionally replacing you with other men despite the fact that we have built a family together," is emotional blackmail.*
> 
> If that is the basis of your marriage, you are more f***ed than you know.


This attitude among women was prevalent throughout the 19th and probably the first half of the 20th Century. Read any Jane Austen novel for proof. 

Things are different now as women are no longer dependent on men to take care of them. But I disagree that this approach is what makes it fvcked up. Her having kids with the OP and acting this way is why this is fvcked up.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

I am not understanding why OP had no problem contacting her "friends" previously and telling them to GTFO, but NOW he wont. That would send a very strong, clear message to his girlfriend (she ISNT the wife, here) and her response to it would tell everything he needs to know. If it ends the relationship, then so be it. I had strong concerns that he had trust issues with her from the beginning, that in itself is telling.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

This is the beginning of an EA -who the [email protected]#$ knows where it goes from there...wait we do here at TAM .. -it goes from an EA to them sleeping together again - then it goes to it goes to "I love you but I'm not in love with you" SHUT IT DOWN...


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## jc0187 (Feb 16, 2013)

There's a reason why the ex popped up in your wife's life again. And it's not to talk about music. Like another poster said; he's fishing. He wants to wiggle into your relationship. To drive a wedge.


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## Stang197 (Aug 31, 2015)

jc0187 said:


> There's a reason why the ex popped up in your wife's life again. And it's not to talk about music. Like another poster said; he's fishing. He wants to wiggle into your relationship. To drive a wedge.





Truthseeker1 said:


> This is the beginning of an EA -who the [email protected]#$ knows where it goes from there...wait we do here at TAM .. -it goes from an EA to them sleeping together again - then it goes to it goes to "I love you but I'm not in love with you" SHUT IT DOWN...


These guys are right. You see it over and over again on these threads. It's like a broken record.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Be firm. Your begging and pleading is unattractive. Think about how your wife reacted when you sent these guys packing a long time ago. You were a man about it and she respected that--- got to tell her friends how you "wouldn't go for that ****"....
You know what to do. Just get it done. Screw having her approval.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Call the ex. Tell him back the **** off and any other details you know about him etc.

This one's easy. Ignore what your "wife" is telling you and take action.

Blast this out of the water with a nuclear bomb. Tell your W this ends or you are done. Because your relationship is over anyways of they continue to contact each other. And the fact that she knows you're no OK with it and does it anyways? Huge red flag.

Man up!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

jdawg2015 said:


> Call the ex. Tell him back the **** off and any other details you know about him etc.
> 
> This one's easy. Ignore what your "wife" is telling you and take action.
> 
> ...


I agree
What do you have to lose.....a wife to another man?????

You do know you can find an old lady that doesn't want to be shared between two guys and only wants you?

Hell I won't even share my lawnmower...I sure as hell ain't going to share my old lady.

My point here is every time I lend shyt out it comes back broken!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I don't mean to compare your marriage with a lawnmower...but you can only pull and pull and pull on this relationship and it either starts or it doesn't.
Then you end up forgetting about it until you finally throw it away!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

hmtintruder said:


> she values him so much as a friend.


If this guy is on top of his game he will put a currency on this friendship and your old lady will be telling you " i didn't want this to happen" or " it just happened"

From were I'm sitten your old lady either excepts the protection you offer in this marriage or she lets you go and lets you make the same hard choice in this life changing event that will redirect the both of your lives.

I hope she tells this OM to phuck off and commits to the choice she mad years ago with you and appreciates the protection you have to offer.

Most likely she will tell you to go pound sand and decades from now she will be found dead by the postman surrounded by cats and cat boo in some trailer on the out skirts of town.


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## hmtintruder (Oct 19, 2015)

Wow, lots of attacks about her being my "wife". It's not part of the issue, but by all means continue on.

Anywho, I talked to her today. Told her how what makes her happy is disrespectful to me, our relationship, our family, our household, and the life we've built. Told her I wouldn't do it anymore and there could be no compromise in the matter. All this nonsense she's putting our family through for this 1 sh!thead.

"You need to choose what's more important....your relationship with him or your relationship with me and our family."

She was surprised that I gave the ultimatum.

What I learned from more conversation we had is that this is about her gaining control back over her life and who she can be friends with. I get it, but I also asked to name ANY other instance where I forbid her from doing something or being friends with anyone. No reply to that. It's only one person whom I want to control contact with.

I know that this has been dissected to death here, but the root is her wanting control of her life.

Now my reasons for my actions are simple. Based on the past with this person and others it's unacceptable to be in contact with him.

Anyway, she needs time to process it. She was genuienly surprised by the ultimatum. Now there are a few scenerios that go through my head...I know, I know...hear me out.

1. It was a surprise and shock to her and she just needs to process it.

2. THat she can't make that choice on the spot tells me right away what relationship is valued more.

3. This goes back to having control of her life. She may be thinking "do I want to be contolled in this relationship" (in reality 3 people remember) or do I want to be in total control.

I tend to overanalyze and create the worst scenerios so there are bunch of things I won't even humor.

So now I wait. A previous poster noted that his wife took a week before agreeing to not be in contact with an ex. I don't want to wait that long...it should be an easy and obvious choice...to me anyway.

Ironically, she now has the control over her life that she wants. And she controls what happens next.


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## Stang197 (Aug 31, 2015)

hmtintruder said:


> Wow, lots of attacks about her being my "wife". It's not part of the issue, but by all means continue on.
> 
> Anywho, I talked to her today. Told her how what makes her happy is disrespectful to me, our relationship, our family, our household, and the life we've built. Told her I wouldn't do it anymore and there could be no compromise in the matter. All this nonsense she's putting our family through for this 1 sh!thead.
> 
> ...


I think you need to covertly monitor. If she keeps it up see a lawyer. At this point I think she might stop or she is going to try and hide it. Play dumb but keep a close eye.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

What's crazy is you having all this stress about your SO talking to an ex! This is so obviously wrong it hurts just thinking about it. It should not be a decision. Tell the guy to fish elsewhere for women. You are just giving her time to figure out a way to take the messaging underground. You can't live this way. You need to bring the rain, sir. Any woman would expect nothing less. She is totally in the wrong and you are totally in the right. And she darn well knows it. You are in no real danger here. This ex just wants a piece of tail from an old flame. She likely knows it as well. 
It's all a bluff on her part. To say this is a chance to be in control of her own life is the weakest reason to flirt with an ex I've ever heard. Really? I mean, really? Tell her she can be in full control and start by paying all her expenses when she is on her own. They're exes for a reason. Don't let this jerk scare you. Nuke it.

Sadly, there's something wrong with things if this is even am issue.


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## Stang197 (Aug 31, 2015)

I would put a spy app on her phone so you get the unedited truth. With all the apps designed to conceal contact, I think that is your best bet to make sure it does not go underground. You should confront this Ex too. Why not. Let him know that you are not a chump oblivious to his crap.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

You did fine. He is out of state, right?

The other question is what about the guy down the street she meets next week??? Then she says, well you know I have been unhappy for awhile. Yada yada yada

Spend time finding a MC. Their are several good threads here. Go with or without her.


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

I think you should tell her that her decision to not make a decision instantly confirmed you are not a priority!! And that you will not be an option!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mostlycontent (Apr 16, 2014)

hmtintruder said:


> She was surprised that I gave the ultimatum.
> 
> What I learned from more conversation we had is that this is about her gaining control back over her life and who she can be friends with. I get it, but I also asked to name ANY other instance where I forbid her from doing something or being friends with anyone. No reply to that. It's only one person whom I want to control contact with.
> 
> ...


Here's what I think.

First off, good job on giving her the ultimatum. Hopefully, you did it calmly and very matter of fact. Women like strong men so this is likely to be viewed positively, no matter what she decides to do. You have your dignity and self respect and that's a good thing at the very least.

I completely understand your wife's/SO's position here. She feels as though she's lost her identity and is completely overwhelmed by taking care of several small children. Her life is not her own now and she's feeling the weight of the responsibility and obligation of it. Her feelings are not abnormal but her solution to regain control is wrong and inappropriate.

Rekindling the friendship with the ex takes her back to a time when she didn't have all of this responsibility. It's nostalgic for her and comfortable like an old shoe. So we understand what she's getting or attempting to get out of this relationship but what is the reason or excuse for her ex?

I'll tell you what it is. He isn't weighted down by children and isn't feeling overwhelmed or a loss of identity. He's wanting to rekindle the friendship because he still has feelings for her. It's as simple as that. She's unsuspecting and he's just trying to weasel his way back in. And oh by the way, there's a reason he was friends with her before they started going out. It's because he was interested in her sexually before they started dating. Now is no different. I would make sure that your wife/SO understands his real motives no matter what she thinks. She obviously doesn't know how he truly feels about her but you do because that's how a lot of guys are. I would not let her create a distraction or diversion with this however. It's irrelevant if she thinks he has no romantic feelings for her. The fact is that he does or he wouldn't be ignoring his own girlfriend and putting that relationship in peril to talk regularly with your wife. 

What you need to do now is let her know that you understand how she feels. You understand how hard her job is and that she has no time she can call her own. Tell her that you appreciate her efforts and that you know she feels like her life is out of control. Tell her also that it would be even more out of control if you weren't around because the relationship ended. She needs to clearly understand the consequences.

Further, you need to let her save face. That's the only reason that she didn't immediately comply. You see, if she did, she would feel even more out of control of her life. By helping her to fully understand her problem and letting her know that you understand, you are letting her arrive at the proper conclusion without it seeming like you crammed it down her throat.

Now that you both understand her problem, sit down and come up with correct ways that she can get some time back for herself where she doesn't feel so tied down and overwhelmed with her life. Maybe you can take a day off work and watch the kids for her. Let her go shopping or whatever she enjoys all day long. Get one of your parents or family members to watch the kids so she can get some free time.

Point is that there are ways you can help her to not be so overwhelmed that are also not destructive to your relationship.

The other thing to consider here for your wife/SO is that this time will pass. Every new mom or mother of several small children deals with this but it passes because the children don't always stay so young and needy. This is just a really difficult time in her life that she has to endure but it does pass and she will get her life back. I think she just needs to know that you get it and will help her through it.


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## Mostlycontent (Apr 16, 2014)

Tobyboy said:


> I think you should tell her that her decision to not make a decision instantly confirmed you are not a priority!! And that you will not be an option!!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I really don't think that's what his SO is saying here. It could be but I don't think so. Most people don't immediately acquiesce to an ultimatum. It makes them feel weak if they do. She's looking to save face is all IMO.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

intheory said:


> It IS wrong of your common-law-wife/live-in girlfriend to let another guy into her life. It absolutely is.
> 
> And I know she says this is only happening because she feels unfulfilled being a SAHM.
> 
> ...



This. You may not want to hear it but unless you have a specific agreement not to marry it absolutely is part of the issue. She's good enough to have kids with but not good enough to marry. Blow it off of you want but it is how she feels.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

hmtintruder said:


> So now I wait. A previous poster noted that his wife took a week before agreeing to not be in contact with an ex. I don't want to wait that long...it should be an easy and obvious choice...to me anyway.


In that week before my wife agreed not to contact him, she and I weren't talking; she just wouldn't talk to me. She was so pissed that I was telling her who she can/can't send e-mails to and that I cut off her ability to do so. To an extent, I don't blame her for being mad. She also knew that I called her sister and told her sister not to pass any information between my wife and the POSOM and that I was pissed at her sister for reconnecting them in the first place; she was livid that I did that and that I blocked Facebook for the whole house. This was about control, not her EX, I really don't think she gave a sh*t about him; this was about my saying she couldn't e-mail or contact and that I physically stopped it. To this day, my wife doesn't know I threatened the POSOM.

I think your case is different. Your wife has been in contact with this EX longer and by phone than my wife was with her EX; with my wife it was just a few e-mails. I think your wife was already bonding with him. Also, my wife hadn't seen or had contact with her EX in many, many years. Your wife's relationship with the POSOM is much more recent and that makes a big difference as feelings are more fresh. Also, you can't underestimate the role not being legally married plays in all this. Although most states recognize that you have a "common law marriage", that piece of paper means something to people, especially when you are dealing with something that could be considered a "infidelity" issue.

For those reasons, I think that the time your wife is taking to reflect on this is a bit more ominous than it was in my situation. She could just be processing this, like my wife did, but I think your situation is further along then mine was. Also, we are older than you guys, my wife has a different "generational" attitude than I think yours does, my wife understands, to an extent, that she just can't have a relationship with any guys she feels like.

Do yourself a favor and contact this POSOM and lay down the law. Don't hesitate to contact his wife or SO, if he has one, and tell her what is going on. I think you need to take the decision away from your wife and make it for her by removing the POSOM.


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## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

hmtintruder said:


> I know that this has been dissected to death here, but the root is her wanting control of her life.
> 
> .


???!!! This is ridiculous. 'Control of her life' has nothing to do with having an ambiguous email relationship with an ex. 

I love the Middleman's first post. It was spot on. 

I was clear about this kind of stuff with my H from the beginning. I just won't put up with it. 

As you said, the ball is in her court.


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## StilltheStudent (Sep 14, 2015)

When a person uses the "I want control of my life" excuse that basically means they were preparing to cheat on you and you caught them.

Why else would "control of their life" require building a new, intimate, relationship with someone else?

OP, very proud of your ultimatum. Massive kudos to you for taking the necessary steps to save your relationship and family from this.

Caution: Yes, that she is taking time to make this decision, pretends that she does not see the issue, and is couching this as "taking back control" are all massive red flag signs that she was preparing to cheat.

She wants plausible deniability.

But she knew exactly what she was doing and by giving her this ultimatum you are forcing her to come to the realization that you know what is going on.

This sounds more and more like a walk-away wife who was caught mid-rationalization for the abandonment of her LTR and children.

You still need to talk to a lawyer my friend.


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## StilltheStudent (Sep 14, 2015)

For the record: Taking back your life means you get back to a hobby you neglected, you hit the gym and get yourself fit again, that you search for a new job or a promotion in your current company, or that you take a more active role in your family.

It absolutely does not mean you find a former lover to connect with on an emotional level.


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## jc0187 (Feb 16, 2013)

Evinrude58 said:


> What's crazy is you having all this stress about your SO talking to an ex! This is so obviously wrong it hurts just thinking about it. It should not be a decision. Tell the guy to fish elsewhere for women. You are just giving her time to figure out a way to take the messaging underground. You can't live this way. You need to bring the rain, sir. Any woman would expect nothing less. She is totally in the wrong and you are totally in the right. And she darn well knows it. You are in no real danger here. This ex just wants a piece of tail from an old flame. She likely knows it as well.
> It's all a bluff on her part. To say this is a chance to be in control of her own life is the weakest reason to flirt with an ex I've ever heard. Really? I mean, really? Tell her she can be in full control and start by paying all her expenses when she is on her own. They're exes for a reason. Don't let this jerk scare you. Nuke it.
> 
> Sadly, there's something wrong with things if this is even am issue.


I can see the hesitation to go through with the ultimatum. If she chooses to continue talking with ex, he will continue trying to convince her to drop this guy. He's got 3 kids. 

I remember a coworker telling me about problems in his marriage. I asked him why does he stay? He tells me "cause it's cheaper to keep her". 

OP is terrified of following suit on the ultimatum and end up in a studio apartment in the worse part of town eating ramen out of the pot he cooked it in, day after day because he'll wind up paying child support to his now ex, and, like one poster said, possibly alimony, depending on the state you live in. 

Knowing ALL that, I'd be hesitant too. I remember my brother left his wife after he found out she was long term cheating on him. She eventually took him to court for back child support. Even went back to the years THEY HAD BEEN LIVING TOGETHER. Needless to say, she won. He now owes over $10,000 back child support. And this was for just one kid he was paying. Something like $600 a month. 

Sorry to get off-topic.


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

I think the hesitation would have done it for me. I think your right there is a special place in her heart for this guy and its not for you. This might actually be a good time to really start distancing yourself from her and end things on the best possible note. Your seeing now the serious fractures in your relationship with her. Its not about her having control over her life its about her having this guy in her life and her saying these blanket statements to get what she wants. I would get divorce papers in order and let her see just how serious you are. 

There is nothing wrong with divorcing and moving on when your both going in different directions. If she wants him let her have him. Keep one thing In mind if you do separate and she goes off to have her fun with him then comes back saying she wants you keep that door closed for every. Never be second to anyone. 

You deserve more than what your being given.

C


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

jc0187 said:


> I can see the hesitation to go through with the ultimatum. If she chooses to continue talking with ex, he will continue trying to convince her to drop this guy. He's got 3 kids.
> 
> I remember a coworker telling me about problems in his marriage. I asked him why does he stay? He tells me "cause it's cheaper to keep her".
> 
> ...


Yes, I can also see how he'd be hesitant. Guess what hesitance will get you? If she's going to bang her exes (and this is what letting her keep chatting him up will amount to), he's going to have to get a divorce anyway. Unless, that is, he is willing to have an open marriage. SO, now that you've put the fear of God in him pertaining to sending her down the road (they're not married), he will probably be even more hesitant. 
What happened when he did the right thing and canned this crap in the past? Nothing, because she knew she was in the wrong and wanted him to be a MAN about it. He can be. He wants to be. Don't avoid problems, OP, take care of business. Think how you will feel if you wimp out and let her do this crap, you know about it, and she ends up banging the OM????? If you go ahead and torpedo that crap and send the guy a message to screw off, then you will know in your heart you did the best you could. As I said, your relationship is in trouble already, or you wouldn't have this problem. Fix this, then start fixing the problems in your relationship that led to her wanting to chat up another man she's been intimate with. Let her know that this is over regardless. But she wants to know what's in it for her? Let her know AFTER THE MESSAGING STOPS, that what's in it for her is YOU, and that YOU are there for her and want to start satisfying her needs. Then do it.

Stop worrying about consequences that may happen whatever choice you make, and do the right thing. 
I WOULD go talk to a lawyer at this point and find out your options, legally.

You know you aren't exactly happy living like this. STOP IT if you can. If you can't, you were headed for breakup anyway and are none the worse off.
JMO,
Evinrude


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Evinrude58 said:


> Yes, I can also see how he'd be hesitant. Guess what hesitance will get you? If she's going to bang her exes (and this is what letting her keep chatting him up will amount to), he's going to have to get a divorce anyway. Unless, that is, he is willing to have an open marriage. SO, now that you've put the fear of God in him pertaining to sending her down the road (they're not married), he will probably be even more hesitant.
> What happened when he did the right thing and canned this crap in the past? Nothing, because she knew she was in the wrong and wanted him to be a MAN about it. He can be. He wants to be. Don't avoid problems, OP, take care of business. Think how you will feel if you wimp out and let her do this crap, you know about it, and she ends up banging the OM????? If you go ahead and torpedo that crap and send the guy a message to screw off, then you will know in your heart you did the best you could. As I said, your relationship is in trouble already, or you wouldn't have this problem. Fix this, then start fixing the problems in your relationship that led to her wanting to chat up another man she's been intimate with. Let her know that this is over regardless. But she wants to know what's in it for her? Let her know AFTER THE MESSAGING STOPS, that what's in it for her is YOU, and that YOU are there for her and want to start satisfying her needs. Then do it.
> 
> Stop worrying about consequences that may happen whatever choice you make, and do the right thing.
> ...


Exactly!. OP, don't be nice to the OM. Tell him any girlfriend or wife he has you will contact them now and those in future as well. Let him know that you want all communication stopped and if ANY continues that you will take action.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

@hmtintruder,
How are things at home now that you have made your feelings very clear to your "wife". Getting the cold shoulder or is she truly being reflective?


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## hmtintruder (Oct 19, 2015)

Update: 

So in a nutshell, her ex is out of the picture again!

A couple of notes on some more talks we had. 

1) A lot of you were right about us not being technicially married being a problem. See, I was under the impression this entire time that she was ok with that. I knew it was important to her and that's why I gave her a really nice ring...it was acknowlegment that I knew marriage was important to her and a promise that it would happen. Like I said before, it was a finances thing (I know a lame excuse) but I'm a person who is pretty calculated and planned out with these things. Another $200+ a month out of our budget a month for benefits and whatnot was just not do-able with everything going on. I thought we had an understanding of this.

Well, it turns out that was not the case, but she says she doesn't fault me on it because she went along with it without telling me her true feelings. I was basically ignorant to it and never thought any better. I feel pretty guilty about being so selfish.

So she was upset with that this whole time. Add to that being a SAHM of 3 and losing hobbies, friends, becomming depressed, etc and she just wanted a bit of a change. As in being a little more independent, etc (I talk about this in my OP) She says that in this instance since they were old friends she thought it'd just be easy to reconnect that friendship. 

I told her she needed to understand how it's just a huge red flag when I learn that she's unhappy about the marriage thing, looking for change and control, and then reconnects with an ex who I'd forbid contact with 6 years ago for disrespecting our relationship. She understood my POV, but admitted to being selfish when it came to this aspect of finding happiness in her life.

So we had a talk later in the day I gave her the ultimatum. Her delay in making a choice was her trying to wrap her head around the whole thing. Like someone said, there are a lot of layers to this, some of which I haven't gotten to. The next morning she talks to him and tells him that everything is off again. SHe says that he understands things from our end and that's it.

So we had one month of contact after 6 years of none. 1, 1 hour phone call which was purely friendly (I'm taking her word for it), and texting and facebook messages. I've seen all those for myself (with and without her permission) and they were all OK to me. The issues that I had were that this guy disrespected her knowing full well she was in a relationship. I don't forgive something like that. And because of that there was the potential for things to escalate. I told her that I could have stopped this from day 1 and how she would have felt about that. Things would probably be worse off than now. Also, I needed her to do it (even though it didn't benefit me) I needed her to stand up for herself and more importantly our relationship. 

She spent a day not talking to me and was depressed because " I get what I want again". But things are OK now, we've still got things to talk about and we're going to see an MC so we can work on the marriage thing and other issues I've mentioned.

Just after I post this I'm going to write a message to the ex and just echo what my wife said. Tell him to lose her number, facebook, etc

As for me, I felt an almost instant relief to be done with this. What I feel bad about is the marriage thing and I'm totally commited to making up for it. And I'm looking forward to seeing an MC together and individually.

So that's about it, thanks everyone!


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## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

hmtintruder said:


> She spent a day not talking to me and was depressed because " I get what I want again". But things are OK now, we've still got things to talk about and we're going to see an MC so we can work on the marriage thing and other issues I've mentioned.


I'm just going to throw in my 2cts. Please don't get offended because I'm rather direct at times:

Does talking to an MC to 'work out the marriage thing' mean that you are going to actually marry her, like soon? If not, I foresee more trouble in the future as she did say that you've gotten your way again.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Trust but verify.

Better get to the bottom of this or you'll be here again.

There's a reason she's reaching out.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

You should have married her before the kids were born but that's water under the bridge now. Even though to marry her now will be like she's rewarded for going roage it still needs to happen. She's the mother of your kids. 

She needs to get back to work as soon as she's able to so she can help allieviate the financial pressure. Also be sure to definitely tell POS to F off.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Marc878 said:


> Trust but verify.
> 
> Better get to the bottom of this or you'll be here again.
> 
> There's a reason she's reaching out.


I agree with this in a very big way: This Is Not Over.

If it's not this POSOM, it will be another guy at some point. Part of it is her character and part of it is your relationship, you need to work with her on both if you are going to preserve this relationship. Be vigilant and watchful and repaire the relationship.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

jsmart said:


> You should have married her before the kids were born but that's water under the bridge now. Even though to marry her now will be like she's rewarded for going roage it still needs to happen. She's the mother of your kids.
> 
> She needs to get back to work as soon as she's able to so she can help allieviate the financial pressure. Also be sure to definitely tell POS to F off.


I *don't* agree that he should marry her, as that would give her the ability to make his life much more miserable than she could now. She has already shown that she is not terribly trustworthy, and that would be like putting his head in the lion's mouth.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

You're right about her being a possible flight risk but she's been loyal these years and more importantly is the mother of his kids. If you see how many of the woman on this thread have stated, the fact that he didn't marry her is a factor and lo and behold, OP finds out that his girl is indeed bitter about that.

The thing is to do it so she sees it as being done out of love and not fear.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

technovelist said:


> I *don't* agree that he should marry her, as that would give her the ability to make his life much more miserable than she could now. She has already shown that she is not terribly trustworthy, and that would be like putting his head in the lion's mouth.


Marry her or dump her. Marrying her may not prevent a recurrence, but not marrying her will practically guarantee a recurrence. It's time to sh!t or get off the pot.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

My advice: see a lawyer and find out if marrying her will give her more opportunity to shaft you financially. If you're going to be put in a bind either way, why not work at making your relationship better and marry her? 
Lastly, make no mistake about it, your SO knew exactly where this could lead, and probably wanted it to go there. It's not that there isn't precedence, right? You need to keep that in mind. 
Ask yourself if this woman has the character to be a faithful spouse. If the answer is no, you'd really be better off detaching and finding a woman that is trustworthy. 
Ido think that idle hands are the devil's workshop. Getting a job could be great, or put her out there for other men to meet. I'd definitely try to reconnect before....
Just because we want things to work out a certain way, doesn't mean they will. Work on your relationship like it appears you plan on doing, but see a lawyer and have all the info you can when making important decisions. Wishing you luck, and glad this problem is over for hopefully long enough that you can work on things with her again.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

OP, I'd suggest you follow through with the MC. Can't hurt right? In regards to marriage I would say that it is an option you must consider if you plan on staying with this woman. If you feel a little hesitant due to recent events might I also suggest you consider a pre nup. It can be something as simple as a promise from her not to seek alimony if a divorce occurs. However I would say she'll probably react somewhat negatively to this as she's been a loyal mate for six years before this recent issue. Just thought I'd mention it.


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## hmtintruder (Oct 19, 2015)

Marriage - Part of me wants to do it right now given the revelation, but I know that isn't the best course of action. I want us to see the MC and see where that goes. Once we can work through things we can discuss actual marriage TOGETHER. This way it can be purely out of love and any bitterness she has is gone.

I do believe that she's been faithful all these years, and in her defense the recent contact with the ex didn't develop into an EA. We're still talking and I plan on trying to delve deeper into why she wanted to reconnect. After all the talks we've had so far I don't believe it was with the thought of an EA, etc...but I still don't get all the "why's". Part of me thinks it may have been a cry of attention. Not his attention, but mine. Maybe fueled by the marriage thing?

Thanks for the advice on the lawyer. I'm seeing one soon for unrelated reasons so it's something else to bring up.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

hmtintruder said:


> Hi, this is my first post! I think like most people I came here only after something went south in their relationship and are looking for advice or at least a place to vent.
> 
> Here's some back story (kinda long, sorry):
> 
> ...


^This^ is where I stopped.

How certain are you that the children are (biologically) yours?


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## hmtintruder (Oct 19, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> ^This^ is where I stopped.
> 
> How certain are you that the children are (biologically) yours?


100% positive.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

@hmtintruder How are things going? Any updates?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

jsmart said:


> You're right about her being a possible flight risk but she's been loyal these years and more importantly is the mother of his kids. If you see how many of the woman on this thread have stated, the fact that he didn't marry her is a factor and lo and behold, OP finds out that his girl is indeed bitter about that.
> 
> The thing is to do it so she sees it as being done out of love and not fear.


Yeah, contrary to what some men think we do in fact know how other women think. 


I'd like to repeat him I said SOME men. 

I guarantee that unless you have a specific agreement not to marry and you've been together for years and have kids she's p!ssed off that you haven't married her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Ï


Nucking Futs said:


> Marry her or dump her. Marrying her may not prevent a recurrence, but not marrying her will practically guarantee a recurrence. It's time to sh!t or get off the pot.


This. A woman who's received the message that she's not good enough to marry but is good enough to have kids with well eventually get tired of that.

It's good that OP gets this now. Either marry her or end the relationship. Now that she knows that he knows the marriage thing bothers her not marrying her will send a very clear message. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hmtintruder (Oct 19, 2015)

Nothing really new to report. Things are good. If something is bothering us we talk about it. Regarding MC, I'm just waiting for the referral to be approved from my insurance. Thanks everyone for the advice (as brutal as some of it was) it was appreciated.


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