# My wife: 21 and looking for attention.



## ayoungman

My wife and I have grown increasingly distant the last 3 months following her being hired on at a popular nightclub. She is a waitress there, and loves her job. I have never agreed with her job choice and I have grown very insecure, I believe for good reason. My wife has always been faithful to me, and I don’t think she would ever cheat on me. (That’s my insecurity talking). What I hate about clubs are the lifestyles they promote, and my wife has started to take part in. All nighters, heavy drinking, drugs, little clothes, flirting, men. 2 days out of the week she works the club. 7pm till 4am. At first, she came home afterwards, now she gets breakfast and sleeps at a work friend’s house for a couple hours before coming home. At least once a week she goes out and drinks very heavily. I have seen facebook messages of her saying how “f**ked up she was” and that she “doesn’t remember anything”. That’s once a week. I just saw another message tonight that said she was going to be doing the “shower show” this weekend. This is a show wear it rains on the dancers who are wearing underwear and tape over their nipples. Pretty awesome, if it isn’t your wife. She hangs out with and talks with many other men via facebook, text, and twitter. Half of it is non professional. She says it’s all part of networking.

Some of this she doesn’t know I know, and others she flat out lies to me. The other day I saw messages of her making plans to go to a certain club that night. So, I asked her that morning if it would be okay if I hung out with my friends that night, she stopped in her tracks, “umm…well. I have stuff I need to do.” Later, after thinking about her lie, she came up with a very manipulative one. “I was invited to be apart of the managers meeting tonight. Pretty cool right!? You want me to move ahead don’t you? Then afterwards I will feel obligated to go out with them.” That gave her the night to herself she was looking for. I told her I knew she was going to out and that I'm not stupid. She insisted she didn’t know what I was talking about.

Combine this with massive CC debt she racked up ($2700) on her new social life. This is the one thing she couldn’t hide and is working on paying this off.

I don’t know if I can survive this!! I can’t make her quit her job, and I’m becoming controlling. I’ve stared snooping her computer and asking about everything she’s buying! I wish I wouldn’t but every time I do, I find something I am appalled by!!! She is a great liar, very manipulative and a better arguer. She’s doing whatever she wants and there nothing I can say about it. Whether we are happy in our marriage or struggling, she's allways had this desire for sexual attention. What can I do?

-ayoungman


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## PFTGuy

I see three options: 1. Try to negotiate change with her, maybe through counseling. 2. Accept the situation the way it is, hoping it's just a phase. 3. Tell her you won't tolerate the behavior, and that if it continues, you'll get out. If it continues, get out.


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## Halien

I think you have to realize that, based on her actions and manipulation, she might just reach a point where she is too far into it to turn back to the marriage. Tell her that you are afraid that she is losing herself. Be honest about the lying and debt. Tell her it is time to make a choice: you or the job. It would be entirely different if she demonstrated control, but tough choices might be your only hope.


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## RandomDude

Hell no offense but in your position I would capitalise on this, network with her male friends then pimp her out and help her pay off that debt of hers.

Now hey, there's nothing wrong with showing off a little, and enjoying the attention, the fun, the thrill, etc etc. The missus and I had a few exhibitionist adventures too, and the missus has her own wild past as well.

But your wife is not only losing herself, but is getting out of control, and blatantly disrespects you by her continual lying. Halien's correct, if she was more in control and mature about this then it's different but it doesn't seem that way.


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## Jellybeans

You married a party girl. PFT laid it out for you.


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## chillymorn

I be very surprised if she hasn't cheated already ......just calling a spade a spade.

stays out all night drinks until she is wasted partying with other men and then lieing about it so she can continue with out you knowing 

all of this a couple times a week . wake up and small the coffee.

ask yourself is this what you want in a wife?

substance abuse
all nighters with other men 
lies and manipulation 

I feel you know whats up but are in some kind of denial.

sorry your going through this but have some respect for your self and put your foot down at the very least.

but if it were me I'd be out of there her behavior would be totaly unacceptable to me.

good luck


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## golfergirl

The line that jumped out 'networking'???? They order drinks - she brings them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## that_girl

Jellybeans said:


> You married a party girl. PFT laid it out for you.


Yea. And she's 21. I'm not saying all 21 year olds are partiers, but many just want to hang out and be young.

But PFT is right.


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## AFEH

Ayoungman, I think you may be her “Mr Stability”. She married you because you are a stable guy, nothing at all wrong in being a stable guy in fact it’s very good. But now she has you she wants her cake and eat it too. At 21 yo she sounds like she didn’t have her version of “fun” before she got married so she’s having it now. She thinks you will always be there, I think you are her back-up plan. Her Plan B.

It is seriously gross behaviour and something I would not tolerate for a second. In this case it really would be “My way or the highway”. I would not debate the point at all. I would not be open for any form of negotiation whatsoever.


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## Jellybeans

that_girl said:


> Yea. And she's 21. I'm not saying all 21 year olds are partiers, but many just want to hang out and be young.


 Yes she is 21. I read that clearly. Doesn't change the fact of what I said. Hanging out is one thing. She is totally out of control.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ayoungman

RandomDude said:


> But your wife is not only losing herself, but is getting out of control, and blatantly disrespects you by her continual lying. Halien's correct, if she was more in control and mature about this then it's different but it doesn't seem that way.


I agree. If she showed control and a willingness to comprimise I can put up with alot. I feel like I have already. But there are things I just dont think I can comprimise on, but she makes me feel like I should. She makes me feel like I'm being a very controlling and irrational person.


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## ayoungman

AFEH said:


> Ayoungman, I think you may be her “Mr Stability”. She married you because you are a stable guy, nothing at all wrong in being a stable guy in fact it’s very good. But now she has you she wants her cake and eat it too.


Oh wow, I never thought of that. I do feel like I'm being taken advantage of.



AFEH said:


> At 21 yo she sounds like she didn’t have her version of “fun” before she got married so she’s having it now.


She has said that before. "I'm 21 and I've never been able to have any fun. I am finally having fun and feeling good about myself."



AFEH said:


> It is seriously gross behaviour and something I would not tolerate for a second. In this case it really would be “My way or the highway”. I would not debate the point at all. I would not be open for any form of negotiation whatsoever.


I feel like I have to be open to negotiation. We have two daughters together. 

With that being said, the girls are asleep when she does any of this. By day, she is the most amazing mother. I wouldn't have anyone else in that spot.


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## ayoungman

chillymorn said:


> I be very surprised if she hasn't cheated already ......just calling a spade a spade.


I'm afraid she has. I couldnt imagine her having sex with someone, but her that drunk in a club, i know she dances with guys (I'd have to be an idiot to think she doesn't) and my gut tells me it wouldn't be a far stretch to say she has made out with someone else. It breaks my heart to even write that down. But that is what the guys in those clubs are there for, and shes there for the attention. But I don't have any proof of that! So all I'm left with is the hate for clubs, and i think that makes me sound like a controlling freak.



chillymorn said:


> I feel you know whats up but are in some kind of denial.


I don't want it to be true, and I want it to be a phase she grew out of yesterday.


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## Shaggy

I dont want to be negative here but your marriage is over if she continues to work there. 

She is already lying and "sleeping over" after work. She is going out without you partying at other clubs and getting drunk and possibly doing drugs too 

She is hanging with players and partiers. 

And she us lying to you 

She is at a minimum ditching you for this life using you to take car of the kids

More realistically she is also cheating on you 

Frankly someone who worked that many hours in a club would likely view going to another club on her day off as hell. 
The fact she is ditching you and lying so she can go alone means there is another guy who she is meeting up with. 

Sorry. But you wife is very clearly cheating.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy

Oh and she is a waitress. Waitresses don't network they serve drinks and get hit on. 

Her networking is dating other men
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy

You need to tell her it's the job or divorce. Even now it's likely she is do involved with the trashy guys that go to those places looking to score that she is gone. 

Don't bother trying to negotiate with her she has already shown she will lie to you. 

Oh and do get tested fir STDs today. You very likely already have got one. Or had she cut you off because she is too tired from work?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy

Sorry bro, its not your insecurity here, its your intuition.

She is stepping further and further out of the marriage, and she has no boundries for her self or her marriage.

Most likely you will get labeled as controling when you approach her about her behavior, so beprepared to give her the choice to stay married to you with boundries, or she can choice to leave. This will also give you the choice to move on also. 

Again you are not controlling her, it his her choice to change and stay or leave the marriage and do what she wants. She can't do both ....well maybe she can its up to you, that my friend you do have control over, the control in excepting her unhealthy behavior or having the respect to move on with out her, not begging for your marriage but commanding the respect you diserve.

So I hope you get it, you can't control her but you can control what you will do if she continues.

I know you love your chick, and this BS is tough but with out some tough love and she will continue.


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## Undertheradar

As others have mentioned, I think your marriage is over.
A relationship has a very slim chance of survival under those terms.


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## ayoungman

PFTGuy said:


> 1. Try to negotiate change with her, maybe through counseling.


What is a good negotiation? I dont like her going out like that at all, and saying you can keep your job but you can't talk to these guys anymore, and you can't go out and drink as much will only push her further away. She already feels like I'm controlling. 

Even if she was okay with that comprimise, i may get bitter and resentful, because what I really need is for her to stop altogether. She may turn me into the bad guy in the end if I try to negotiate.



PFTGuy said:


> 2. Accept the situation the way it is, hoping it's just a phase.


I can see this being a phase. I have had many friends get burnt out by this lifestyle, but some it takes longer than others. That process could take years. Keep in mind she works at one of the clubs, and does promo jobs serving for all of the different clubs every once in a while. She knows so many people. They are all becoming her good friends. It's not like she wants to be a club owner. She does have great goals, so I can't image she will always be living like this. But how long will it take? 2 years like some? 6 years like others? I don't know if I can wait. But part of me feels like I should for the daughters' sake. After all, they dont see any of this. 



PFTGuy said:


> 3. Tell her you won't tolerate the behavior, and that if it continues, you'll get out. If it continues, get out.


I hope you guys don't mind me sorting out my feelings and decision in front of you. This has been the best think I've done for myself.

I think this might be the most logical option. Faced with that altermadum, it could snap her into reality. What is more important to her, her lifestyle or her family? Putting my foot down.


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## shaung

Undertheradar said:


> As others have mentioned, I think your marriage is over.
> A relationship has a very slim chance of survival under those terms.


You need to deliver an ultimatum. Her family or the meat market. Night clubs exist for one reason and one reason only, as a meat market to facilitate hookups. A married women with two young daughters has no place in such a job.


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## Shaggy

You need to read the lessonls from other people On this board. You are set to 
make serious mistakes handling this. 

First you need to learn to hear what she really is say. "you are controlling". This means that I know you don't want me to cheat but I don't want to stop. 

You are looking to negotiate with her to get her stop cheating. This will fail and you will be left looking a fool. 

You don't negotiate with a cheater or a liar. You tell them what the boundaries you accept are and when thru cross those boundaries you impose consequences. 

The consequence of cheating is divorce if it doesnt end. 

Question. How many men are you willing to accept your wife being with while you wait for her cheating phase to end.?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lon

youngman, what do YOU want. That is what you need to start putting first in this. I have learned the hard way that being too selfless is just as bad as being too selfish, and so it is time for you to take charge of your own life. I know it is 10x more anxiety and emotion when you have children to think of as well, and only you can decide what you need, but it may not be possible if your W is going another direction, and is only up to her how she chooses to live her life. It is tough to let go of what you thought you could have with her, but if you can't make it work then staying around will make you miserable.


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## ayoungman

I appreciate all of your words. Thank you. 

I have a hard time believing my marriage is over. I just don't think I've done everything I can yet. At this point I've really only been either too passive, or too agressive when confronting her. I'm either yelling at her for lieing and going out, or I'm just letting her go without a word. Both I know are wrong. 

Maybe I dont show her enough love. I have gotten pretty violent in my frustration. Never hitting her, but I think she was pretty scared of me. No wife should be scared of their husband. Maybe I'm the reason she's pulling away so much? If this is the case, does it excuse what she is doing or that I should be more understanding?

-ayoungman


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## Lon

and also, knowing what you know, there is no purpose in doing more for her, or trying to make deals with her because there is no benefit in that for you and it will not bring her around to see you in the light that you want to be seen in because a man that can't get what he wants (ie take care of his needs) is weak in the eyes of his mate. Do what is best for you and your daughters, she is already finding her own ways to meet her sexual and emotional needs so let her go and find ways to meet the rest of those needs without taking advantage of you.


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## ayoungman

Shaggy said:


> You need to read the lessonls from other people On this board. You are set to
> make serious mistakes handling this.
> 
> First you need to learn to hear what she really is say. "you are controlling". This means that I know you don't want me to cheat but I don't want to stop.
> 
> You are looking to negotiate with her to get her stop cheating. This will fail and you will be left looking a fool.
> 
> You don't negotiate with a cheater or a liar. You tell them what the boundaries you accept are and when thru cross those boundaries you impose consequences.
> 
> The consequence of cheating is divorce if it doesnt end.
> 
> Question. How many men are you willing to accept your wife being with while you wait for her cheating phase to end.?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I value what you are saying, but we don't know that she is having sex with other men. We just dont, and I wont leave her based on that assumption.


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## Catherine602

Go to the club one night with a trusted friend or relative. If it is large enough and dark you can hide out for a time. Get there after it has been open for a while. Or wu ail her when she leaves in a borrowed or rented car. Follow to see where she goes. 

Are you older than she? How did you meet and how old was she? Sounds like she has not grown out of her wild phase yet and is not ready for married life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ayoungman

Lon said:


> and also, knowing what you know, there is no purpose in doing more for her, or trying to make deals with her because there is no benefit in that for you and it will not bring her around to see you in the light that you want to be seen in because a man that can't get what he wants (ie take care of his needs) is weak in the eyes of his mate. Do what is best for you and your daughters, she is already finding her own ways to meet her sexual and emotional needs so let her go and find ways to meet the rest of those needs without taking advantage of you.


Thank you, that is a great point. She obviously has needs that I am not meeting. Perhaps I need to address what I can do to better meet her needs, at some point? Or is that rediculous?


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## ayoungman

Catherine602 said:


> Go to the club one night with a trusted friend or relative. If it is large enough and dark you can hide out for a time. Get there after it has been open for a while. Or wu ail her when she leaves in a borrowed or rented car. Follow to see where she goes.
> 
> Are you older than she? How did you meet and how old was she? Sounds like she has not grown out of her wild phase yet and is not ready for married life.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I never thought about going Spy Kids on her ass. Thats a thought. We are both young. I am 23 and she is 21. We will have been married 3 years in November. She has allways been very responsible, and that is what attreacted me to her. When we met she was working 3 jobs. She has never rested, and she's getting hers now.


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## the guy

For sure investigate her loyal commitment to the marriage , you diserve the truth and as you have seen she will not be the one giving you it (the truth).

PI are very expensive, so getting a trusted friend or relative is the best option. I believe you will find her behavior not of a married woman.

Taking your kids into account I strongly suggest you nip her life style in the bud right now before she gets to deep. Your kids depend on you as your W sits hung over every morning. You must get the proof that will slap(figuritively) her in the face of the unhealthy behavior she is in.

Im my case the confrontation of my wifes unhealthy behavior, (as painful as it was) forces us to both address it and both make the changes for a healthier marriage.

So please expose her behavior and show her the reality of what she is doing under the cover of darkness and fogged with booze and drugs. Do the investigation not to prove you right but to make her face the reality.
She sounds like a smart girl and has found her self in a position of not being able to turn back, so get the hard proof and expose it to her to make her face the reality of her bad choice, and the fact if it contiues she will lose her marriage and her kids. 

Some times people need to see it in black and white, and in my case color to realy see what they have blocked out during the night to sleep during the day. 
My wife felt horrible after showing her the evidence which made her change not only for the marriage but for her self.

Look into a VAR and some other spy gear that will help you gather the evidence of your out of control wife.

This sh~t happens it did to me) and some time folks need the people that love them do get them heading in a healthier direction.


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## ayoungman

Thanks alot Guy. I probably could find a good friend to follow her around from bar to bar. 

Her phone holds most of the secrets though. I would really like to get into that thing. She is always near it and when shes not, she puts the key lock on. I've tried breaking into it but I can't. I want to know exactly how she is talking to people, who she is talking to, and what she confesses to on there. That could be all the proof she needs in her face, in the open. Any way to get text records?


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## Entropy3000

golfergirl said:


> The line that jumped out 'networking'???? They order drinks - she brings them.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Really!!

What kind of night club is this? Why would she be networking?
Sounds like there are other things expected of her beyond being a waitress. 

Of course this whole thing is way way over the top and why he found any of this acceptable to begin with who knows. 

She is at least a partying girl but sounds more like a real party girl by profession where she is expected to provide more than waitressing. This is also way more than getting attention.

Expecting this to be a phase is more than a bit naive.

Has she cheated already? Well who can say but lets just say that her behavior is already unfaithful which is a broad range of things. Partying all night with other men and sleeping somewhere else before she comes home from work. hmmmm. Wow. Sounds more than recreational to me. Drugs and Alcohol? Yeah that is condusive to monogamous behavior from a woman who parties with men out to have alcohol, sex and drugs.

Honestly? I would move on.


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## txhunter54

Does she have to work the 7m-4am shift? Why not 4pm - midnight. Is this really a night club or a strip club? The strip club culture is not a healthy environment at all for a married woman.


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## Runs like Dog

I'm going to sound all you kids get off my lawn but 21? I have ties that are older than that. Your wife doesn't sound like she wants to be legally married nor does she understand what marriage commitment is. Slinging booze at 4am simply IS NOT DONE. Sorry Princess but no. Your blushing bride barely old enough to drink, herself has to get her sh^t together and figure out does she want throw herself into your arms or throw herself at drunks for minwage + tips.


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## Entropy3000

ayoungman said:


> Oh wow, I never thought of that. I do feel like I'm being taken advantage of.
> 
> 
> 
> She has said that before. "I'm 21 and I've never been able to have any fun. I am finally having fun and feeling good about myself."
> 
> 
> 
> I feel like I have to be open to negotiation. We have two daughters together.
> 
> With that being said, the girls are asleep when she does any of this. By day, she is the most amazing mother. I wouldn't have anyone else in that spot.


How amazing can a mother be who is out partying with men drinking and using drugs? The fact she makes it home is probably amazing in itself.

Seriously, get yourself tested for STDs.

I am very sorry you have children with her. This is not the life style for a stable relationship. You are likely in for a lot of pain dude.

I am sure she is having a blast. So are the people around her.


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## Entropy3000

ayoungman said:


> I'm afraid she has. I couldnt imagine her having sex with someone, but her that drunk in a club, i know she dances with guys (I'd have to be an idiot to think she doesn't) and my gut tells me it wouldn't be a far stretch to say she has made out with someone else. It breaks my heart to even write that down. But that is what the guys in those clubs are there for, and shes there for the attention. But I don't have any proof of that! So all I'm left with is the hate for clubs, and i think that makes me sound like a controlling freak.
> 
> 
> I don't want it to be true, and I want it to be a phase she grew out of yesterday.


This does not sound controlling. It sounds very submissive. The other extreme. 

You not liking your wife possibly having sex and partying with other men in a drunken and drugged out stuper is the antithesis of controlling. It is weak. Not attractive to her either. The men she is with are exciting and take what they want.

Let me guess she says you are controlling, insecure and jealous? Which usually means you need to man up and put a stop to the behavior. The fact you are open to negotiating this says that you are way too submissive. By putting a stop to her behavior I am talking about you telling her this is unacceptable to you and you will not tolerate it in your marriage. That she must go NC with any and all of these people and that she find a job outside of the fringe sex industry.

The fact she would be a performer on stage in the shower show is indicative of what is really going on here. Are there strip shows here? Dancers? Or is this just an up scale meat market hookup place? Do you ever go ther and see what goes on? Please don't tell me can't because you have to stay home and watch the kids.


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## Entropy3000

ayoungman said:


> Thank you, that is a great point. She obviously has needs that I am not meeting. *Perhaps I need to address what I can do to better meet her needs, at some point? Or is that rediculous*?


This is ridiculous. This is not about not meeting her needs. She is not a SAHM and you caught her texting someone. This is someone who is way way deep into a partying lifestyle and may be the entertainment itself.


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## Shaggy

Youngman

She is a 21,yr old woman in way over her head and yours. She has been roped into a world which chews up pretty young women uses them and spits them out. 

She maybe a good person but clearly she had been given attention drugs and booze. 

She is likely so busy living what seems the high life that she doesn't yet realize she is throwing away her family n

What kind of phone does she have. Does she sync it with the computer? If so you can
Likely get the texts even deleted texts

This is not about what you have done. Well you accepted her working at a meat market but the rest is all her doing and choices. Believe me those clubs are expert at using women.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

A mother of 2 should NOT be going out and getting drunk and partying. If I were you, I would tell her you're taking and kids and moving, and she can contact you when she's got her kinks worked out.

And tell her that the ONLY way you will consider staying with her is if she drops this job and lifestyle. PERIOD.

You're the man. You're supposed to be leading your family. Find your you know what, and lead.


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## Lon

Entropy3000 said:


> This is ridiculous. This is not about not meeting her needs. She is not a SAHM and you caught her texting someone. This is someone who is way way deep into a partying lifestyle and may be the entertainment itself.


:iagree:

what I was saying is that whether or not your are even capable of meeting her needs, she is not even looking at you to meet them (except of course for providing a home, food shelter for her kids, an allowance and free reign to come and go as she pleases). Like ent says, the idea of you entertaining trying to do more to be the one to meet her needs shows that you are totally submissive (and don't feel bad about that because I was that way too, but have started on the road to reclaiming my proper role as a father for my son).

A year ago when my W and I were in counseling, we were counseled to follow plan "A": we each were supposed to DO MORE to meet each others needs, but I was burned out how could I do more?? I somehow managed to anyway and started planning some dates, arranging the babysitter, being more "firm" with my child's discipline... guess what they effect was? It drove her away, she told me (verbally and with her actions) that she wasn't attracted to me, but it wasn't because of me it was her and she wanted to figure it out (thus began the long season of sex-drought, and the dissolution of our emotional connection).

Now if I had spent some time researching marriages and come across this website I may have realized I needed plan "B": stop being walked on, find out what MY needs were and communicate them so that it would have giver HER something to work with, I also would have started enjoying life a lot sooner and would be further ahead whether it meant saving my marriage or letting her run off to find someone she was more attracted to (but having even more confidence that she would never find him because I was her best pick).

The moment she said she wanted D I realized that my approach (which looks just like your approach right now) was the wrong one, despite feeling like it was everything I knew to be right. It seems counterintuitive for a man to have to make himself more selfish, but when the other way implodes on itself it becomes the last remaining option and thus the process of elimination kinda says that it what nature intends this dynamic between women and men to be. I also knew that my only choice to fix myself was exactly the same whether the marriage was saved or not, it seemed kind of wasteful to throw away the marriage because we both had the exact same amount work to do anyway just without each other. It is shear rejection, my W lost all respect and faith in me, and checked herself out. It is her loss, but it is her decision now. Your job is to get back to taking charge of your own life.

As for your marriage, it honestly sounds too far off track, that she is too young and having too much "fun" on this life that she is following - there is always hope that she will smarten up, but she has to do it herself and how long will you be willing to wait it out? a year? two years? 5 years? my W is 31 and just started on your W's path. I know you have the fortitude to stick it out, but that is not your obligation nor is it the right thing for your daughters. It is impossible for you to change her, especially using the nice guy method you have been trying incessantly. If she wants to fix it YOU are the one that has to lay down the law, and that means whatever is necessary to get her to give up that lifestyle and putting her family first.


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## ayoungman

Entropy3000 said:


> Really!!
> 
> What kind of night club is this? Why would she be networking?
> Sounds like there are other things expected of her beyond being a waitress. She is at least a partying girl but sounds more like a real party girl by profession where she is expected to provide more than waitressing. This is also way more than getting attention.QUOTE]
> 
> What she means by networking is meeting and creating friend ships with the many club owners, djs, musicians, celebrities, and photographers she meets. She is a make-up artist and hair stylist, and has already been hired for a few photshoots, through people she's met.


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## Entropy3000

ayoungman said:


> Entropy3000 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really!!
> 
> What kind of night club is this? Why would she be networking?
> Sounds like there are other things expected of her beyond being a waitress. She is at least a partying girl but sounds more like a real party girl by profession where she is expected to provide more than waitressing. This is also way more than getting attention.QUOTE]
> 
> *What she means by networking is meeting and creating friend ships with the many club owners, djs, musicians, celebrities, and photographers she meets. She is a make-up artist and hair stylist, and has already been hired for a few photshoots, through people she's met*.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry I missed that. So what type of club is this?
> 
> Lotsa guys claim to be clib owners to get special favors or just attention from young women.
> 
> What do photograhpers have to do with this?
> 
> Celebrities?
> 
> So is this a South Beach club scene? Or is this more the exotic dancer thing or what?
> 
> Live music? Sorry I am pretty naive here. Thiugh I am thinking there is a wide range of possibilites with varying degree of upscale through sleaze and it is hard to tell from what you have shared.
Click to expand...


----------



## ayoungman

txhunter54 said:


> Does she have to work the 7m-4am shift? Why not 4pm - midnight. Is this really a night club or a strip club? The strip club culture is not a healthy environment at all for a married woman.


Yes it is indeed a nightclub, and it is open from 8pm to 4pm. It's called an afterhours club. They get the business from the bars and clubs that close at 1 and 2. It definatley isnt a strip club.


----------



## Entropy3000

ayoungman said:


> Yes it is indeed a nightclub, and it is open from 8pm to 4pm. It's called an afterhours club. They get the business from the bars and clubs that close at 1 and 2. It definatley isnt a strip club.


The shower show took us this direction.

From Wikipedia:

"An Afterhours Club (often misspelled as Afterhour Club), in North America and Europe, refers to a nightclub which is open past the designated curfew for clubs that serve alcohol. Such clubs must cease serving alcohol at the designated time, but have special permission to remain open to customers and to sell non-alcoholic sodas and (typically) high-caffeine drinks.

More recently (within the last decade), in Northern Europe - specifically in Germany, Spain and the United Kingdom, 24 Hour 'Music and Dance' Licences have been granted and which do not necessarily have alcohol restrictions. Door Security and Supervisor searches normally appear tighter than that of other nightclubs, in an attempt to restrict the use and distribution of Narcotics or Illegal Drugs"


----------



## ayoungman

Entropy3000 said:


> ayoungman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry I missed that. So what type of club is this?
> 
> Lotsa guys claim to be clib owners to get special favors or just attention from young women.
> 
> What do photograhpers have to do with this?
> 
> Celebrities?
> 
> So is this a South Beach club scene? Or is this more the exotic dancer thing or what?
> 
> Live music? Sorry I am pretty naive here. Thiugh I am thinking there is a wide range of possibilites with varying degree of upscale through sleaze and it is hard to tell from what you have shared.
> 
> 
> 
> I dont expect anyone to be well versed in club scenes. But basicly, there are strip clubs, and there are night clubs. Night clubs, there is no nudity, with the exception of that shower stuff, and here are gogo dancers who are in bakinis dancing on a stage. In a strip club, only the naked girls dance. In a night club, there is a massive dancefloor where everyone dances. Others get drinks, lounge, socialize, and flirt. The night clubs with bring in musical acts, celebrities, and photographers to get more people to come.
Click to expand...


----------



## ayoungman

Entropy3000 said:


> The shower show took us this direction.
> 
> From Wikipedia:
> 
> "An Afterhours Club (often misspelled as Afterhour Club), in North America and Europe, refers to a nightclub which is open past the designated curfew for clubs that serve alcohol. Such clubs must cease serving alcohol at the designated time, but have special permission to remain open to customers and to sell non-alcoholic sodas and (typically) high-caffeine drinks.
> 
> More recently (within the last decade), in Northern Europe - specifically in Germany, Spain and the United Kingdom, 24 Hour 'Music and Dance' Licences have been granted and which do not necessarily have alcohol restrictions. Door Security and Supervisor searches normally appear tighter than that of other nightclubs, in an attempt to restrict the use and distribution of Narcotics or Illegal Drugs"


Yes I understand. Thank you for helping me clarifying this


----------



## ayoungman

We wil be talking tonight when I get home from work. I plan to make it very cut and dry. Either the lifestyle she is living at night stops, or the marriage ends.


----------



## Entropy3000

ayoungman said:


> Entropy3000 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I dont expect anyone to be well versed in club scenes. But basicly, there are strip clubs, and there are night clubs. Night clubs, there is no nudity, with the exception of that shower stuff, and here are gogo dancers who are in bakinis dancing on a stage. In a strip club, only the naked girls dance. In a night club, there is a massive dancefloor where everyone dances. Others get drinks, lounge, socialize, and flirt. The night clubs with bring in musical acts, celebrities, and photographers to get more people to come.
> 
> 
> 
> Both are incredibly seductive places. Hard for a married woman even with a lot of savvy to not get eaten alive. Especially a young woman with ambition. They can often be seduced by the allure of having their career take off. Lotsa guys who come off like they have serious money and game. So a waitress would get hit on heavily and then there would be reason for them to try to impress her and for them to get her to stay out later. Reason for her to bend any boundaries as she is plausibly just networking. So she parties after the the after hour stuff and then sleeps over a friends and then comes home and is an amazing mom ... wow.
> 
> So in this nightclub they have gogo dancers in bikinis. Ok. Got it. Somewhat tame and theatrical but not just a typical dance club that we often talk about wives going to for their GNOs. This is a more trendy nightlife thing. Which one would expect from an afterhours club. This is where the people who work at the other places go to after their place closes down. More professional group in the industry along with more serious folks who like to stay out longer. Major league stuff going down here. Respectible folks down to serious players to wannabes and even pimps.
Click to expand...


----------



## Entropy3000

ayoungman said:


> We wil be talking tonight when I get home from work. I plan to make it very cut and dry. Either the lifestyle she is living at night stops, or the marriage ends.


Good choice sir.


----------



## Shaggy

ayoungman said:


> Entropy3000 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I dont expect anyone to be well versed in club scenes. But basicly, there are strip clubs, and there are night clubs. Night clubs, there is no nudity, with the exception of that shower stuff, and here are gogo dancers who are in bakinis dancing on a stage. In a strip club, only the naked girls dance. In a night club, there is a massive dancefloor where everyone dances. Others get drinks, lounge, socialize, and flirt. The night clubs with bring in musical acts, celebrities, and photographers to get more people to come.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So she is like one of the hostess party girls that Tiger Woods got caught with?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
Click to expand...


----------



## ayoungman

Entropy3000 said:


> ayoungman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Both are incredibly seductive places. Hard for a married woman even with a lot of savvy to not get eaten alive. Especially a young woman with ambition. They can often be seduced by the allure of having their career take off. Lotsa guys who come off like they have serious money and game. So a waitress would get hit on heavily and then there would be reason for them to try to impress her and for them to get her to stay out later. Reason for her to bend any boundaries as she is plausibly just networking. So she parties after the the after hour stuff and then sleeps over a friends and then comes home and is an amazing mom ... wow.
> 
> So in this nightclub they have gogo dancers in bikinis. Ok. Got it. Somewhat tame and theatrical but not just a typical dance club that we often talk about wives going to for their GNOs. This is a more trendy nightlife thing. Which one would expect from an afterhours club. This is where the people who work at the other places go to after their place closes down. More professional group in the industry along with more serious folks who like to stay out longer. Major league stuff going down here. Respectible folks down to serious players to wannabes and even pimps.
> 
> 
> 
> You're spot on Ent! She feels like her ultimate career is tangible through some of the people she has met, and I can see that too. She recently did a photo shoot for a large local magazine after meeting the editor. Maybe I could deal with her just working there if we set clear boundries.
> 
> ie. no lock on the phone, no texting men about anything unwork related, come straight home after everyshift, only go to club for work shift. no more dinking, no more drugs, no shower shows, no dancing with guys.
> 
> As a waitress, I can deal with guys flirting with her, and her innocently flirting back for an extra tip, but she is out of control and spinning.
Click to expand...


----------



## ayoungman

Shaggy said:


> ayoungman said:
> 
> 
> 
> So she is like one of the hostess party girls that Tiger Woods got caught with?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> 
> 
> You really aren't helping.
Click to expand...


----------



## Shaggy

She needs to be working overtime to show full transparency to you
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ayoungman

It would make me happiest if she would stop altogether. Work and partying. But if she can keep the two separate, and then ax the latter. idk...


----------



## Entropy3000

ayoungman said:


> Entropy3000 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're spot on Ent! She feels like her ultimate career is tangible through some of the people she has met, and I can see that too. She recently did a photo shoot for a large local magazine after meeting the editor. Maybe I could deal with her just working there if we set clear boundries.
> 
> ie. no lock on the phone, no texting men about anything unwork related, come straight home after everyshift, only go to club for work shift. no more dinking, no more drugs, no shower shows, no dancing with guys.
> 
> As a waitress, I can deal with guys flirting with her, and her innocently flirting back for an extra tip, but she is out of control and spinning.
> 
> 
> 
> This is way beyond being a waitress.
> 
> The thing is that many of these men offer employment and favors but they have strings attached ... at least in their minds. There is more going on for them. They are using their power for their own gains.
Click to expand...


----------



## Shaggy

ayoungman said:


> Shaggy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You really aren't helping.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry I honestly am trying to help.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
Click to expand...


----------



## heartsbeating

She might be 'going for hers' career wise - if it's related with being a makeup and hair stylist BUT she's deluding herself with your help, that she can achieve this through that type of scene (and with how she's behaving with you) AND still be a mother of two, a faithful wife, AND with a husband that actually wants to stick around for her. Something's gotta give.

Can't she put together a portfolio of her work, get in with a high profile salon that services celebrities/editors etc. to help her career that way?

Also Entropy ......your posts about these clubs are making me feel OLD!!


----------



## turnera

A MOTHER OF TWO HAS NO BUSINESS TAKING DRUGS.

She is responsible for their well being and you don't just wake up and have it out of your system. What are you going to say to her when she apologizes for letting them both drown in the bathtub because she couldn't get her sh*t together?


----------



## ayoungman

Shaggy said:


> She needs to be working overtime to show full transparency to you
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree, and this is where i get submissive. Demanding her be 100% transparent. What is the consequence for not being fully transparent? I leave?


----------



## the guy

:iagree:

Come on guys, his wife is going to gaslight him and blame shift, he needs experiance and help not the "nice guy" slap in the face speach.

I hope you are prepared, she will manage you and your emotion will get the best of you. Don't begg for your marriage! 

Some guys take a few times to get a effective confrontation.

It did for me!

Are you really ready? Do you have the eveidence that will chage her thinking?

Final question , are willing to leave, if not then don't empower her by giving her some b~llsh~t threat that won't mean a hill a beans.

You really have to be ready to take your 2 kids and kick her out.

She will for sure gat pissed and leave, when you confront her. Dude this is all a script and we here at TAM hear it all the time.


The ultimatuim will make her leave to the other man. are you going to let her back, do you know whats really gpoing on ? can you show her the truth? 

I'm thinking its more of a ultimatum that gives her a chance to be with boyfriend then come back. 

You can make it clear that her choice to leave after confronting her is her disicion to leave the marriage. Her staying will show some kind of commitment, but she will take it deeper underground.

Sorry for the rant


----------



## heartsbeating

ayoungman said:


> You're spot on Ent! She feels like her ultimate career is tangible through some of the people she has met, and I can see that too. She recently did a photo shoot for a large local magazine after meeting the editor.


Sorry to get stuck on this point. I assume you mean she did the styling for the photo shoot? Even though this type of 'networking' can be helpful in certain circles, if she wants to make a serious career out of being a stylist I think she needs to mature and rely more on her skills than her body/looks/dancing/partying. I'm sure she could easily pick up work for supplier shows. She could even start out by volunteering if she hasn't done shows before just to help her portfolio. And if she's worked a salon before, she could easily step up to look at management or work towards being head stylist to create a 'name' for herself rather than being the party girl. I wouldn't buy into the networking aspect of this at all. If she was single, sure I'd say go for it if that she wants. But she's not. And actually she could shape a good career for herself if she's willing to put in the hard work from the ground up.

It sounds like she needs to decide whether she really wants to be married and put you as a focus. And you need to guide her with that decision. All the time you're accepting of this lifestyle, she's of course going to continue. As someone else wrote, you're her stable guy. You do not want to be that.


----------



## ayoungman

heartsbeating said:


> She might be 'going for hers' career wise - if it's related with being a makeup and hair stylist BUT she's deluding herself with your help, that she can achieve this through that type of scene (and with how she's behaving with you) AND still be a mother of two, a faithful wife, AND with a husband that actually wants to stick around for her. Something's gotta give.
> 
> Can't she put together a portfolio of her work, get in with a high profile salon that services celebrities/editors etc. to help her career that way?


That is why this feeling in me keeps coming up, that I have two wives. My working wife, and my partying wife. My working wife started focused, in control, and driven. Even though I didn't like the club scene, I could see that she loved me and only wanted to be with me, that there was some sort of boundary, and that she had clear goals she was working towards, it helped me deal.

Now there is this huge increase in the partying wife, and I can see it messing up the working wife, and her focus, and her control and her boundries. The two are starting to mesh together. Thus, I am here. 

What is everyones opinions on her cutting out all partying and unprofessionalism, as long as she only lets the working wife stay around with clear and concise boundaries?


----------



## the guy

Consequenece are she finds her own support and she no longer counts on you to be her b!tch!


----------



## turnera

For Pete's sake, youngman. She's 21! She's not even grown up yet. The brain doesn't stop developing until you're around 25 - what you KNOW you know at 21 can be completely different from what you know you know at 25. And she's stuck with a husband and two kids...when she should be out partying like all the OTHER people in the club.

I give you two months...three TOPS...before she decides you and the kids are cramping her style.


----------



## turnera

ayoungman said:


> Now there is this huge increase in the partying wife, and I can see it messing up the working wife, and her focus, and her control and her boundries.


Drugs will do that, youngman.


----------



## ayoungman

Or do you think that would just make the problem quite for alittle bit?


----------



## ayoungman

turnera said:


> For Pete's sake, youngman. She's 21! She's not even grown up yet. The brain doesn't stop developing until you're around 25 - what you KNOW you know at 21 can be completely different from what you know you know at 25. And she's stuck with a husband and two kids...when she should be out partying like all the OTHER people in the club.
> 
> I give you two months...three TOPS...before she decides you and the kids are cramping her style.


Thank you very Turnera, now can you please screw off so I can focus on FIXING MY MARRIAGE, and not GIVING UP!!!!!!!


----------



## the guy

I'm sorry this has hit close to home in my own experienxe and after 20 years of an unhealthy marriage I feel I have a right to be rude

My WW and her "network" thru "nude internet modeling" and her ultimit infidelity.....it just sound so fimiluar
sorry


----------



## the guy

Thank God T- showed up!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## turnera

ayoungman said:


> What is everyones opinions on her cutting out all partying and unprofessionalism, as long as she only lets the working wife stay around with clear and concise boundaries?


Good luck with that. You're talking control, having to monitor her every morning to wait up and see if she comes home at 4:15 and check her blood to see if she has drugs in her system. Won't work.

This has to come from HER. SHE has to see what it's doing, be ashamed, and want to stop. Only by you standing up to her will this happen. ME and the kids - or the job.

btw, if she refuses, your next move needs to be calling her parents and siblings and letting them know what's going on.


----------



## ayoungman

the guy said:


> Consequenece are she finds her own support and she no longer counts on you to be her b!tch!


That acually sound pretty good!


----------



## turnera

ayoungman said:


> Thank you very Turnera, now can you please screw off so I can focus on FIXING MY MARRIAGE, and not GIVING UP!!!!!!!


 I have about 30 years of experience on you, youngman, and I have seen it all, and I am a student of psychology (and you can't argue psychology; it will show true each and every time). I know what I'm talking about. You don't like what I'm saying? Fine. Don't take my advice. But do you honestly see ANY good result out of letting her work there? Drugs are progressive. Drinking is progressive. Guys coming into the same bar every night and seeing the same cute 21 year old girl there every night and seemingly available and deciding she's drunk/flirty/easy is progressive. 

And you are not there. She is there all by herself, with her dutiful Sugar Daddy at home letting her come home whenever she wants, drunk, wasted, and NOT having to account for herself. You have turned into her dad. Think about it.


----------



## ayoungman

I appreciate what everyone here has said, and I think I have some ammazing experiences and advise to help me make the best decisions. I'm going to log off now, and focus on my plan. Next time you here from me, it will be an update from my talk with my wife.

Thank you Thank you. You too Turnera.


----------



## turnera

I take you think I'm telling you to ditch her? 

I'm not. I'm telling you to stand UP to her and say you won't be her Sugar Daddy while she goes out and lives the single life on your dime and your time.

You said she's a hairdresser.

Why isn't she working as a hairdresser?


----------



## the guy

Ya but I'm also pro marraige so with tough love come responsablity. 
the responsabilty ti follow through and man up to your self , your kids and to your wife, if she wants her family more then her party!!

Man up bro. and with that come control;
anger
emotions
toloration

Nothing says manhood when you can control your sh!t no matter how your W pushes the buttones.

Right now you have tobe better then you ever thought, its not about controlling her it about controlling your self and how you behave.

You need to focus on what is calm and rightous, not tolorating her BS is not about getting pissed and angry and vandictive, its about taking the a calm and collective thought ( not making a splite second disicion) proceess that will benifit your family not just you.

Can't control her but you can controll you, some time engaging her is just her way to justify the old bad behaviors you *had*


Time to change and show her something she isn't expecting,like a calm and mature alph male that wants to take control of his family. It will be her choice to go along or not. But you as the head of his louse will take the controll to protect his family (tow young ones) she has the choice to join you are ove on.

Tough love Bro, dont be like me and let your cheating wife dictate your life for the last 13 years. face this sh~t head on , right now and be confident that you can suceed with out her and that you can raise your kids, and that you do not have to tolorate her out of control behavior.

Again do not judge her she can be out of control, she can do what she wants, THE THING HERE IS YOU WILL NOT BE ALONG FOR THE RIDE like I was.

I man upped and became the alphs male that she always wanted and have commanded the respect I diserve....knowing I will not beg for my marriage and I'm confident in moving on with out her if she ever goes back to the ways things were.

Yes its about me changing , but it is also about her changing and the fact that both of us will no tolorate our old bahaviors, and wanting our marrige more then any other thing


----------



## turnera

Great points. YM, if you're still reading, make sure you don't attack her like a jealous husband. This is about your family. You're a married man and an adult. Approach it that way: 

"Wife, I love you and I'd do anything for you and our family. But what's going on is destructive - to yourself, to our marriage, to the family. It can't go on. And I can't sit by and watch you harm yourself with the drugs and the drinking, not when you have responsibilities for your children. We have to do something. Something has to change. I'm here to help you in your career, and I will support you to the ends of the earth in your career, as long as you don't continue down this path of destruction. If you want to keep the job, I can't sit by and let you take the family down with you; I'll have to protect the girls and move out. I'll let your parents know what's going on and we'll let you know when we get settled. If your new lifestyle is that important to you, I can't pretend I have any say over that. But you'll have to do it alone. If you choose us, and agree to give up the job, I'll be here right by your side, helping you achieve your dreams. Which will it be?"


----------



## tacoma

I married a party girl too.

She stopped living that lifestyle when we married.
I didn`t ask her to, never said a word, she simply would`t disrespect me like that of her own accord.

Have a talk with your wife, new job or at the very least home right after shift.

There`s no reason she can`t and as your wife she should.


----------



## tacoma

ayoungman said:


> We are both young. I am 23 and she is 21. We will have been married 3 years in November.


Didn`t see this part.

I`m sorry man but I really think you`re screwed.

She`s 21, been married since 18 AND works in the club scene?

That`s a damn difficult thing to deal with...really.


----------



## Haz

Youngman:

I'm coming to this late, maybe too late, but here is my two cents. 

The two red flags I see here are the shower and the photo shoot. She's there to be a waitress, and to advance her career as a stylist. She sees it as a career opportunity, a great place to network. And you are buying this.

BUT

These clubs are also the gateway jobs into the adult industry, and it looks to me like she is getting pulled in that direction. How does displaying her body in the shower advance her career in styling? It doesn't, but it might help get a position as a go-go dancer. Which might get her a job as a stripper in another club--whose owner is among the folks courting her right now, guaranteed.

You never answered the question about the photo shoot. Did she do the styling or did she model? If the latter, how does is advance her career goals. If she has the bones to be a fashion model, she needs an agency. If she doesn't, then modeling with clothes on can be a gateway to modelling lingerie, which leads to the first nude shoot, at which point she will be offered a porn gig. Again, the men who are interested in her as a porn prospect are in the club right now. The know the guy who arranged the photo shoot. Hell, they may be that guy.

She needs to lose the job. You need to make it happen. So long as she is in that environment, she is at serious risk. She will eventually step across the line in a way that is very hard to turn back from. The drugs and booze will help her over the line, and prevent her from finding her way back.

She needs to lose the job. She needs you to pull her back to safety. If you won't do it for yourself, do it for her. If she won't do it for either of you, then you need to protect your kids.

Sorry, but that is my two cents.

Haz


----------



## Entropy3000

heartsbeating said:


> She might be 'going for hers' career wise - if it's related with being a makeup and hair stylist BUT she's deluding herself with your help, that she can achieve this through that type of scene (and with how she's behaving with you) AND still be a mother of two, a faithful wife, AND with a husband that actually wants to stick around for her. Something's gotta give.
> 
> Can't she put together a portfolio of her work, get in with a high profile salon that services celebrities/editors etc. to help her career that way?
> 
> Also Entropy ......your posts about these clubs are making me feel OLD!!


LOL. Yeah, there are more legitiamte ways to get ahead and to be taken seriously. Folks there are looking for something else.


----------



## Entropy3000

heartsbeating said:


> Sorry to get stuck on this point. I assume you mean she did the styling for the photo shoot? Even though this type of 'networking' can be helpful in certain circles, if she wants to make a serious career out of being a stylist I think she needs to mature and rely more on her skills than her body/looks/dancing/partying. I'm sure she could easily pick up work for supplier shows. She could even start out by volunteering if she hasn't done shows before just to help her portfolio. And if she's worked a salon before, she could easily step up to look at management or work towards being head stylist to create a 'name' for herself rather than being the party girl. I wouldn't buy into the networking aspect of this at all. If she was single, sure I'd say go for it if that she wants. But she's not. And actually she could shape a good career for herself if she's willing to put in the hard work from the ground up.
> 
> It sounds like she needs to decide whether she really wants to be married and put you as a focus. And you need to guide her with that decision. All the time you're accepting of this lifestyle, she's of course going to continue. As someone else wrote, you're her stable guy. You do not want to be that.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Entropy3000

ayoungman said:


> That is why this feeling in me keeps coming up, that I have two wives. My working wife, and my partying wife. My working wife started focused, in control, and driven. Even though I didn't like the club scene, I could see that she loved me and only wanted to be with me, that there was some sort of boundary, and that she had clear goals she was working towards, it helped me deal.
> 
> Now there is this huge increase in the partying wife, and I can see it messing up the working wife, and her focus, and her control and her boundries. The two are starting to mesh together. Thus, I am here.
> 
> What is everyones opinions on her cutting out all partying and unprofessionalism, as long as she only lets the working wife stay around with clear and concise boundaries?


I think a woman has the right to have a career. BUT she needs to have those boundaries the same as you do.

She needs to handle her job in a legitimate way. She should not be being unfaithful to you.


----------



## Entropy3000

turnera said:


> For Pete's sake, youngman. She's 21! She's not even grown up yet. The brain doesn't stop developing until you're around 25 - what you KNOW you know at 21 can be completely different from what you know you know at 25. And she's stuck with a husband and two kids...when she should be out partying like all the OTHER people in the club.
> 
> I give you two months...three TOPS...before she decides you and the kids are cramping her style.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Entropy3000

Haz said:


> Youngman:
> 
> I'm coming to this late, maybe too late, but here is my two cents.
> 
> The two red flags I see here are the shower and the photo shoot. She's there to be a waitress, and to advance her career as a stylist. She sees it as a career opportunity, a great place to network. And you are buying this.
> 
> BUT
> 
> These clubs are also the gateway jobs into the adult industry, and it looks to me like she is getting pulled in that direction. How does displaying her body in the shower advance her career in styling? It doesn't, but it might help get a position as a go-go dancer. Which might get her a job as a stripper in another club--whose owner is among the folks courting her right now, guaranteed.
> 
> You never answered the question about the photo shoot. Did she do the styling or did she model? If the latter, how does is advance her career goals. If she has the bones to be a fashion model, she needs an agency. If she doesn't, then modeling with clothes on can be a gateway to modelling lingerie, which leads to the first nude shoot, at which point she will be offered a porn gig. Again, the men who are interested in her as a porn prospect are in the club right now. The know the guy who arranged the photo shoot. Hell, they may be that guy.
> 
> She needs to lose the job. You need to make it happen. So long as she is in that environment, she is at serious risk. She will eventually step across the line in a way that is very hard to turn back from. The drugs and booze will help her over the line, and prevent her from finding her way back.
> 
> She needs to lose the job. She needs you to pull her back to safety. If you won't do it for yourself, do it for her. If she won't do it for either of you, then you need to protect your kids.
> 
> Sorry, but that is my two cents.
> 
> Haz


Yes and it was unclear about the photo shoot. Presumably she did the hair styling. Otherwise this is absurd.

She needs to ditch this job and pursue the hair styling in a legitimate fashion.

The pursuit of her career may just be a cover for the life style.


----------



## Halien

ayoungman said:


> Thank you very Turnera, now can you please screw off so I can focus on FIXING MY MARRIAGE, and not GIVING UP!!!!!!!


Try to remember this comment. Hold fast to it. In about 20 years, it'll be the most godawful funniest thing you ever said - if you can ignore the world of hurtin' and loneliness that comes from placating someone who is running away from you.


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## Shaggy

You know even if she decides to get out, the guys there will likely pursue her. That industry has such a long history of recruiting girls and using them until they are burned out.

They promise the world, the big break, the important connection. What they deliver is really messed up bitter girls with drug habits and failed families.

I feel so bad fir this poor guy and his girls.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ayoungman

She did the hair styling and makeup for the photoshoot, but overall, yes I think it's more of an excuse. She like the lifestyle and freedom and attention more than any job she'll get.


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## Entropy3000

WhiteRabbit said:


> Been there, done that...got the ****ty barmaid t-shirt. She's 21...as 6 pages worth of comments have drilled into you...if I were you, I'd take my kids and tell her to come back when she's around 26. No one has any real sense til they're AT LEAST 26....including you. Sorry.
> 
> I appreciate you wanting to cling to your marriage but you can't make a party girl a stable wife. It just won't happen unless she's ready for it to happen. Clearly, she isn't ready. You know she's cheating. Time to do what you need to do and get the hardcore proof. Take her phone out of her pretty little hands and demand the passcode right then and there. Do not give her a warning, do not give her a heads up...just take the damn thing.
> Then tell her if she keeps up her partying and drugs or whatever she'll look like she's 80 when she's 40.
> 
> Believe me when I tell you she will NOT change her ways until she hits bottom. Hopefully she won't find herself living in her car or jumping from party house to party house before she realizes it's time to go back to being a productive, responsible wife and mother. You can't control what she does...you can only control how you handle it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is some honest tough love here. Kudos White Rabbit for telling it like it is.


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## MrK

Shaggy said:


> You need to tell her it's the job or divorce.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:

I may continue reading this thread ,but yeah. Damn dude. Those 10 words are all the advice you need. Except maybe to deal with the resentment if the former is chosen, but I doubt it will be.

DAMN!


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## MrK

ayoungman said:


> She obviously has needs that I am not meeting. Perhaps I need to address what I can do to better meet her needs, at some point? Or is that rediculous?


Will you be able to be a new, exciting man every night? One that doesn't fart in bed? One that doesn't question her credit card bills? One that doesn't tell her it's her turn to change the diaper? Will you be able to give her the fantasy she wants every night? No? Then you CAN'T meet her needs. Don't even try.


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## MrK

ayoungman said:


> Her phone holds most of the secrets though. I would really like to get into that thing. She is always near it and when shes not, she puts the key lock on.


I can't stop reading this thread. DAMN! Walk up to her. Tell her to unlock her phone and hand it to you NOW!! If she doesn't...

DAMN dude!


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## Shaggy

So what kind if phone and carrier does she have! There are lots of ways to open phones, it just depends on which to use.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HappyAtLast

Maybe you should go to her club and see her in action...see for yourself.
I would strongly suggest to her that she find another job...or else.
Your marriage won't survive this.


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## MrK

My phone is never locked and neither is my wife's. If I find it's locked when I need to use it, she unlocks it IMMEDIATELY. That's non negotiable. Doesn't have to be negotiable. Neither one of us would even THINK to do it.


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## Entropy3000

HappyAtLast said:


> Maybe you should go to her club and see her in action...see for yourself.
> I would strongly suggest to her that she find another job...or else.
> Your marriage won't survive this.


Yes. Visit the club. Lay low. Watch. Stay late so you can see what happens afterwords. Needless to say do not let her know ahead of time.


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## turnera

Update? Did you have the talk? What did you say? What happened?


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## Shaggy

I guess he left? Or perhaps she kicked him out and he no longer can post?

I honestly hope his wife sees the dark path she is going down. How do people not see the affects of that lifestyle and avoid it? But then again I've always failed to understand how anyone would start a drug tyhey need to inject either. Guess I'm naive.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ayoungman

Well folks, we had the talk, and unfortunatley The Guy was right. I wasnt ready for what it meant to man up and demand my boundries. Well, I was at first anyways. Here's what happened...

Thursday night, after giving me a lie so she could go out, we argued heavily over text. I caalled her out again for lieing to me and had my proof sitting on the computer, but he still denied it. Yesterday morning we had the talk. I sat her down and told her that i could no longer deal with the lifestyle she was chhosing to lead. I didnt throw a ton of evidence of mistrust at her. instead i told her i knew about the drugs shes taking and the amount she's been drinking. i quoted some of her recent messages to friends. i told her i wont stand by and watch her flirt with other men any longer. I wont sit back and be lied to so she can continnue to shirk her responsibilities here at home, and live a destructive lifestyle. I told her this all started with that job, and that i want her to quit. she defended herself ssome mmore until i said, "thats it then." I told her in all seriousness that i can no longer be married to her. I told her i was moving back in with my parents. She agreed to that. I left for my parents house with the girls. we didnt pack everything. just got out of there with a dys worth of stuff.

This morning she comes over and she has somthing to say. She tells me thaat she is sorry for everything that she has put me through and that she doesnt want to lose her family. she said she won't go out and more. no more partying. She said, though, that she wont quit her job, citing all of bills that count on that income. she said she would keep all her conversations professional and admitted to being flirtatous at times. 

I told her i didnt knnow and that i felt very skeptical. she got defencive and told me that it took alot for her to come and saay this and made me FEEL like if i didnt agree to those terms that i was the one breaking up the marriage. needless to say, i bbuckled, agreed, and continue to feel very skeptical.

I never held her accountble for her actions, and never gathered the proof to stick in her face. she never truly hit rock bottom. i didnt hold strong to the boundries i need. there still is no 100% transparency. She still has that phone to herself. she may be home more often, but i still think that party girl is now only in the shadows. 

1)maybe she totally honors the boundries set in the comprimise.
2)maybe honors it for awhile, but like a recovering alchoholic in a bar, the lifestyle is all around her, and its just a matter of time
3)this was another lie, and with that phone and that job, she will even more carefully craft more lies to continue live this lifestyle.


I definately disappointed myself.


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## AFEH

You are doing something very very tough when you love the woman and two kiddies are involved. I think where you went wrong was not to have a plan in place to pay the bills so she can quit her job. But you can rectify that. In fact a lot of problems men have with their wives are due to the fact that the men are dependent on their wives income. As a man I would hate that dependency. So perhaps that’s your first step. To spend perhaps the next 3 months getting another job for your wife or for you to up your earnings, perhaps by taking a second job. Tough in the current climate.

Don’t worry about failure, making mistakes. Those are the things we learn from. Perhaps you should have cut a deal with your wife, something like “Ok, we’ll move back in to keep the family intact but that only happens when I have full transparency with your phone, email and everything else and within 3 months you are in a new job.”.


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## Shaggy

Don't stop watching what she us up to. You had one confrontation, don't be naive and think that was that.

About the job and income - it sounds like she was spending more on the credit careerism she was making. She racked up that 
debt in only 3 months. How much debt will she rack up in 6 months working there?

Other than her saying she will cut back, did she agree to coming home straight after work?

You need to also realize that the guys that she has been with are going to pursue her. They have her on the hook, and they won't just take a polite no and back off. They are going to work hard to pursued her to meet up and go out. You very seriously need a way to keep tabs on her,. Do not accept any more lies and explanations about her comings and goings.

What kind of phone does use? Many phones can be accessed through their backups when they synchronize with the computer.

You need to figure out how to verify her actions are meeting her words.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Halien

Don't be hard on yourself. You did something that few men have the courage to do, and you are learning as you go. I would recommend showing her how much you love her for a couple of days by focusing all of your time with her in expressing how good the two of you can be together. Finally, tell her that you can only get past this if the temptation is removed, and you do not want her to have to answer on the spot. Tell her you want her to take a day or two to think about it, because you will not take the blame like you this last time for dashing her hopes. She needs to come back with you with hope of a great marriage. Ithink you know that the lure of this other life will be too much for her to live with one foot in it, and the other foot in your marriage.

I do think AFEH has a wise plan, but the fear is that as she returns to the job, this time it will be with the realization that you almost stopped her. Now, she might be working harder on a plan to cut strings if she begins to waffle in her committment to you and her family.


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## turnera

Just let her know that she has 100% lost your trust. And that she will have to earn it back. You WILL be monitoring her HEAVILY and if she doesn't like it, she can move out WITHOUT the kids. She WILL GIVE YOU HER PHONE TO CHECK or you will not move back.

This is ESSENTIAL. If you cannot stick to this one thing, you instantly turn into the worl'd biggest doormat to her. 

That's it: she either proves herself to you or you separate. She NEEDS you to lead the family.


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## Entropy3000

ayoungman said:


> Well folks, we had the talk, and unfortunatley The Guy was right. I wasnt ready for what it meant to man up and demand my boundries. Well, I was at first anyways. Here's what happened...
> 
> Thursday night, after giving me a lie so she could go out, we argued heavily over text. I caalled her out again for lieing to me and had my proof sitting on the computer, but he still denied it. Yesterday morning we had the talk. I sat her down and told her that i could no longer deal with the lifestyle she was chhosing to lead. I didnt throw a ton of evidence of mistrust at her. instead i told her i knew about the drugs shes taking and the amount she's been drinking. i quoted some of her recent messages to friends. i told her i wont stand by and watch her flirt with other men any longer. I wont sit back and be lied to so she can continnue to shirk her responsibilities here at home, and live a destructive lifestyle. I told her this all started with that job, and that i want her to quit. she defended herself ssome mmore until i said, "thats it then." I told her in all seriousness that i can no longer be married to her. I told her i was moving back in with my parents. She agreed to that. I left for my parents house with the girls. we didnt pack everything. just got out of there with a dys worth of stuff.
> 
> This morning she comes over and she has somthing to say. She tells me thaat she is sorry for everything that she has put me through and that she doesnt want to lose her family. she said she won't go out and more. no more partying. She said, though, that she wont quit her job, citing all of bills that count on that income. she said she would keep all her conversations professional and admitted to being flirtatous at times.
> 
> I told her i didnt knnow and that i felt very skeptical. she got defencive and told me that it took alot for her to come and saay this and made me FEEL like if i didnt agree to those terms that i was the one breaking up the marriage. needless to say, i bbuckled, agreed, and continue to feel very skeptical.
> 
> I never held her accountble for her actions, and never gathered the proof to stick in her face. she never truly hit rock bottom. i didnt hold strong to the boundries i need. there still is no 100% transparency. She still has that phone to herself. she may be home more often, but i still think that party girl is now only in the shadows.
> 
> 1)maybe she totally honors the boundries set in the comprimise.
> 2)maybe honors it for awhile, but like a recovering alchoholic in a bar, the lifestyle is all around her, and its just a matter of time
> 3)this was another lie, and with that phone and that job, she will even more carefully craft more lies to continue live this lifestyle.
> 
> 
> I definately disappointed myself.


These are empty promises and you could never hope to spend your life monitoring your wife. Treat this job like an affair partner.

She must quit her job and go NC with all of those people. seriously nothing else cuts it.

It is not too late. Just tell her you reconsidered and realize that this situation is not something you can compromise on. YOU NEED NO PROOF OF ANYTHING. This job is toxic. This is not a court of law. You are the husband and you find her behavior unacceptable. period. End of story. You need no proof. Just self respect, balls and a love for your family. Simple as this. DO IT. NOW.

Also, really get checked for STDs.


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## Shaggy

Any update? Did she make it through the weekend ?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sinnister

If my wife acted like this at 21 she wouldn't be my wife.


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## tacoma

ayoungman said:


> I definately disappointed myself.


Actually I think you did pretty well.

A job is a job it doesn`t have to be more than that.

I and many women I`ve dated have worked the club scene and yes it can be tough on the trust in a relationship.

If she comes home right after shift you should have no problems.

However I still think you`re in serious **** because she`s been married since 18.
I truly believe this will hurt you sometime in the future since she also seems to want that youthful freedom.

Your best course of action will be to keep a subtle eye on her, make sure she`s where she`s supposed to be at all times.

Make yourself known at the club she works.

Start taking her out as much as you can to have some fun.
Show her the life she`s living doesn`t have to be drudgery even if it can`t be one huge party.


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## tacoma

Oh, you will require access to all forms of communication.
Her phone,e-mail accounts, everything, give her access to yours as well to show her she shouldn`t have anything to hide.

If you want to keep a good eye on her install a tracking device on her phone.
If it`s Android based this is a nice app for a dollar...

https://market.android.com/details?id=org.gtmedia.seekdroid&hl=en

It also shows you the last 15 or so numbers she`s texted/called.


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## turnera

tacoma said:


> However I still think you`re in serious **** because she`s been married since 18.
> I truly believe this will hurt you sometime in the future since she also seems to want that youthful freedom.


QFT.


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