# Men, Tell Me What You Are Thinking



## AVR1962

My single lady friends went out recently.....subject always turns to dating and men at some point in the night. All of us are over 50. Listening to their dating experiences I realize we all have pretty much dealt with the same type of issues. It is easy to see thru the men that tell you they love you on the second date, push for the physical, ask you to go away for the weekend but don't call to talk on the phone.....and easy to say good-bye in these situations. What I am really tired of is the men who chase, want to be the "winner" of that chase and as long as you ignore. You let them in, and then they hold out the stop hand. Also tired of the men who have to have everything their way.....I work a 40 hour week, mostly afternoons into evening so I get off late and I find men want me to try to work around their schedule....really? It would be nice to get off at 8 pm and have a gentleman standing there with a glass of wine in hand but instead I hear how tired THEY are after their week and how they just need a day to re-coop, yet I am expected to go out of an evening work days....what am I missing here?

I have several male friends who are just friends, I know what I like and I know what I am looking for and I tend to make male friends because I am not interested in anything more from these men....again, seems to be that chase thing that men eat up.....I don't want them so they want me. I have heard my male friends' dating experiences too....funny how many of them tell me they just wanted sex and then they ended up liking the girl and got dumped or they couldn't get rid of her after sleeping with them. Seems age-old but women want love and men want sex. If a couple actually reach a point of having a relationship So many (men and women) are so wounded that we no longer let people get close. My most recent relationship was with a man who was Hot then Cold and it just kept up and had me so confused and there was no progression. What I realized is he could only get so close, it was his way to feel love without getting hurt. I am starting to feel that "love" is an illusion.

My question, probably more so for the older men here.....what is it that keeps you interested in that one special person in your life?


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## BigToe

Love is not an illusion. The problem is that dating over 50 is VERY difficult. Everything you said about men I would say the same about women. There are some that just want a drink and dinner with no intention of being serious. They flout their body holding it out as a carrot on a stick to get what they want and then drop you like a hot rivet. Both genders play games at this age. The more you date, the more you can recognize it and cut your losses early.

Everyone has history and baggage, and it's much easier to want someone to fit to your schedule than to rearrange yours for them. And Internet dating makes it appear at least that there is an infinite number of people out there so it's easy to make a checklist and if the current person doesn't fit in, then just move on to the next one. However, the vast majority of people on Internet dating sites were just someone else's problem and picking someone from Internet dating sites is like picking someone out of a police lineup of mug shots.

Unless you are ready to settle, finding the right person is a LONG LONG road.


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## oldshirt

AVR1962 said:


> My single lady friends went out recently.....subject always turns to dating and men at some point in the night. All of us are over 50. Listening to their dating experiences I realize we all have pretty much dealt with the same type of issues. It is easy to see thru the men that tell you they love you on the second date, push for the physical, ask you to go away for the weekend but don't call to talk on the phone.....and easy to say good-bye in these situations. What I am really tired of is the men who chase, want to be the "winner" of that chase and as long as you ignore. You let them in, and then they hold out the stop hand. Also tired of the men who have to have everything their way.....I work a 40 hour week, mostly afternoons into evening so I get off late and I find men want me to try to work around their schedule....really? It would be nice to get off at 8 pm and have a gentleman standing there with a glass of wine in hand but instead I hear how tired THEY are after their week and how they just need a day to re-coop, yet I am expected to go out of an evening work days....what am I missing here?
> 
> I have several male friends who are just friends, I know what I like and I know what I am looking for and I tend to make male friends because I am not interested in anything more from these men....again, seems to be that chase thing that men eat up.....I don't want them so they want me. I have heard my male friends' dating experiences too....funny how many of them tell me they just wanted sex and then they ended up liking the girl and got dumped or they couldn't get rid of her after sleeping with them. Seems age-old but women want love and men want sex. If a couple actually reach a point of having a relationship So many (men and women) are so wounded that we no longer let people get close. My most recent relationship was with a man who was Hot then Cold and it just kept up and had me so confused and there was no progression. What I realized is he could only get so close, it was his way to feel love without getting hurt. I am starting to feel that "love" is an illusion.
> 
> My question, probably more so for the older men here.....what is it that keeps you interested in that one special person in your life?


I don't know what to tell you. 

I am 54, been married for 23 years and what you are describing above sounds like my marriage. We are basically in the same boat only you are going through it will multiple people where as I am going through it with one LOL ;-)


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## oldshirt

BigToe said:


> Unless you are ready to settle, d.


And I would also add that the other person will have to be ready to settle for you as well.

I don't mean that in a bad way and assume you are all great people. 

But what I mean is that if your ultimate goal is a LTR/marriage, then both parties are going to have to settle for what they can get. 

At our age people are pretty much set in their life and have themselves more less squared away in terms of career, self-supporting, living where and how they want etc etc and to partner with someone else, that person is going to have to bring something to the table that you otherwise would not have for yourself and you will have to do the same for them. 

…..and then to make it permanent, both people are going to have to settle to one degree or another and say to themselves that this is good enough and that they aren't going to search anymore. 

(and I don't mean "good enough" in a bad way either. If good enough wasn't good enough then it wouldn't be good enough)


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## Faithful Wife

I don’t know what men are thinking. But I am dating men in this age group too and it all just seems normal to me, everything you are describing.

Men say they want one thing, but unless they are incredibly self aware, their actions may show they want something else. They may even claim to despise the thing they want, but then it becomes clear that thing is the only thing they want. Such as the ones who say they want no drama, but they are still in conflict with their ex on almost a daily basis and you can see it is them fueling the drama even though they blame it on the ex. Or the ones who say they are affectionate, but they literally never kiss you or touch your hand, by “affection” they mean they want sex on early dates, then they wonder why YOU are not “affectionate” (being a weirdo about the whole thing and showing clearly that they have no idea what affection means).

But these guys to me are just like everyone in all age groups and women, too. When people are not self aware (of their own subconscious actions and desires, of how their true desires and actions to achieve them come out, of how they really behave in the world, of how they are really seen by others, of where they really are in life without self delusion) then they will say they want things that their actions say otherwise. You can see it in friends and others around you all day long. People who have a certain level of self awareness usually get pretty deliberate and stop following weird paths to weird destinations while claiming they want something else. Most people are somewhere between oblivious to their own real life and motivations and how to achieve what they really want, to very self aware and able to achieve most things they want with no self delusion.

At different times in ones life, they may be more or less self aware. You yourself may need some more self awareness before you can find what you want, too.

When I encounter a man who seems a bit off or unaware, it becomes clear in his actions immediately. If it’s a fairly large lack of awareness, I know there’s no moving forward. I wish him well and that’s it. Onward.

When you meet one who is fairly self aware, if he’s into you, you’ll know it and there won’t be this on off, chase me no I’ll chase you no stop chasing me dynamic. You just have to be patient with a lot of people who aren’t very aware, while you work on your own self awareness also. It’s something we have to keep ahold of and keep working on always.


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## 2ntnuf

So politically incorrect, but my first thought was, "What gay man is going to hand you a glass of wine as you come in the door"? lol I think they want another man. 

On the other hand, I know women who would come home and kiss the husband/partner, and take the just opened bottle of beer right out of their husband's hand and he'd just get himself another. I suppose, a man drinking wine would get the same treatment from them. So, I'm not sure you understand men.


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## AVR1962

oldshirt said:


> I don't know what to tell you.
> 
> I am 54, been married for 23 years and what you are describing above sounds like my marriage. We are basically in the same boat only you are going through it will multiple people where as I am going through it with one LOL ;-)


Was married for 24 years so I know what you are saying. My ex was content to be in the same house as me and considered that companionship. Looking for more than someone share a house with!!!!


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## AVR1962

oldshirt said:


> And I would also add that the other person will have to be ready to settle for you as well.
> 
> I don't mean that in a bad way and assume you are all great people.
> 
> But what I mean is that if your ultimate goal is a LTR/marriage, then both parties are going to have to settle for what they can get.
> 
> At our age people are pretty much set in their life and have themselves more less squared away in terms of career, self-supporting, living where and how they want etc etc and to partner with someone else, that person is going to have to bring something to the table that you otherwise would not have for yourself and you will have to do the same for them.
> 
> …..and then to make it permanent, both people are going to have to settle to one degree or another and say to themselves that this is good enough and that they aren't going to search anymore.
> 
> (and I don't mean "good enough" in a bad way either. If good enough wasn't good enough then it wouldn't be good enough)


My ultimate goal is not marriage, I am financially self-sufficient and have a business that is doing well. I do however want a special person to spend my life with. There are certain things I am not willing to "settle" for as I feel I have done this and I was miserable and I feel fortunate to get out of a relationship that was far past its end. I do agree there has to be acceptance on both parties and I am realistic in that regard. Rather tired of the "pick me" "you are the best" that last for 6 months while hormones flood the brain and then once those hormones leave the man no longer is willing to go to the lengths he once was and then it's over because the basketball game or the time to himself is now more important. Have your sports but find that time we can share is my thinking and that just seems almost too much to ask.


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## 2ntnuf

I think at this age, we aren't looking for a mate to have and raise children with. I don't think we are looking for someone to wait on us hand and foot. I don't think we are looking for deep conversation to understand ourselves or our mate. I think we are looking for a relationship that is more akin to a human and cat. Sorry, but that's the best analogy I could imagine. 

At this age, what is the goal? What is he trying to achieve by holding you in his arms and caressing you softly? I just can't seem to imagine what is worth all of that. You'd be better off moving in with a woman of similar age and getting your sympathy there, while having a decent man for fun times.


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## AVR1962

Faithful Wife said:


> I don’t know what men are thinking. But I am dating men in this age group too and it all just seems normal to me, everything you are describing.
> 
> Men say they want one thing, but unless they are incredibly self aware, their actions may show they want something else. They may even claim to despise the thing they want, but then it becomes clear that thing is the only thing they want. Such as the ones who say they want no drama, but they are still in conflict with their ex on almost a daily basis and you can see it is them fueling the drama even though they blame it on the ex. Or the ones who say they are affectionate, but they literally never kiss you or touch your hand, by “affection” they mean they want sex on early dates, then they wonder why YOU are not “affectionate” (being a weirdo about the whole thing and showing clearly that they have no idea what affection means).
> 
> But these guys to me are just like everyone in all age groups and women, too. When people are not self aware (of their own subconscious actions and desires, of how their true desires and actions to achieve them come out, of how they really behave in the world, of how they are really seen by others, of where they really are in life without self delusion) then they will say they want things that their actions say otherwise. You can see it in friends and others around you all day long. People who have a certain level of self awareness usually get pretty deliberate and stop following weird paths to weird destinations while claiming they want something else. Most people are somewhere between oblivious to their own real life and motivations and how to achieve what they really want, to very self aware and able to achieve most things they want with no self delusion.
> 
> At different times in ones life, they may be more or less self aware. You yourself may need some more self awareness before you can find what you want, too.
> 
> When I encounter a man who seems a bit off or unaware, it becomes clear in his actions immediately. If it’s a fairly large lack of awareness, I know there’s no moving forward. I wish him well and that’s it. Onward.
> 
> When you meet one who is fairly self aware, if he’s into you, you’ll know it and there won’t be this on off, chase me no I’ll chase you no stop chasing me dynamic. You just have to be patient with a lot of people who aren’t very aware, while you work on your own self awareness also. It’s something we have to keep ahold of and keep working on always.



I have dated a few very affectionate men who truly were hand holders, huggers, and would kiss me and did not push to get my clothes off. We'd talk for hours and we really had a wonderful friendship going in my opinion. Thankfully none of the men I have seen and got to know well had drama going with their ex. I have had many say they don't like drama, I get that, neither do I and if it becomes more hurt than fun it is time to call it off and move on. I am not a fighter and I think men see that with me. I deal with the public every day so dealing with situations is common place for me. If anything, I might let too much slide.....I find men to be pretty set in their ways and for the most part of that I let go of alot as it is not worth it to me when he says, "I was right,".....whatever!

I would also say that both the men I have dated that went past 6 date (I let them go pretty fast) were both self-aware and I get what you are saying about the chase.

I am going to be more specific here as these things have bothered me. I have been dating a man for over a year, we get along great, have so much in common but work opposite hours so it is hard to carve out time for us. Thanksgiving day he did not know if he had to work or not so I did not include him in my plans. I had family and a girlfriend over. 2:30 as we are finishing our meal he calls to tell me that he found out that morning that he didn't have to work. I asked him if he would like to come over, he tells me he will be over later after the football game. Really? That bothered me but I let it go. My birthday comes and he made dinner reservations for us, picked me up, we had a great time. Christmas we made plans to have dinner here, I cooked. He bought me some very nice gifts, had a nice day but then went home saying he wasn't sure if he was going to get called into work the next day....he normally works evenings and has been called in earlier a few times but he had to go home? Hum, okay! And well, that was the last I heard from him but he does this. We get great times together and then he disappears. About a month ago I told him that I got the feeling that his distance showed his lack of interest and that we sure could move on if he wasn't interested. he told that was not the case at all...he was tired and feeling well. Is there a problem communicating this? I am not a mind reader! It just seems like things are on his time-table.


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## Faithful Wife

AVR1962 said:


> I have dated a few very affectionate men who truly were hand holders, huggers, and would kiss me and did not push to get my clothes off. We'd talk for hours and we really had a wonderful friendship going in my opinion. Thankfully none of the men I have seen and got to know well had drama going with their ex. I have had many say they don't like drama, I get that, neither do I and if it becomes more hurt than fun it is time to call it off and move on. I am not a fighter and I think men see that with me. I deal with the public every day so dealing with situations is common place for me. If anything, I might let too much slide.....I find men to be pretty set in their ways and for the most part of that I let go of alot as it is not worth it to me when he says, "I was right,".....whatever!
> 
> I would also say that both the men I have dated that went past 6 date (I let them go pretty fast) were both self-aware and I get what you are saying about the chase.
> 
> I am going to be more specific here as these things have bothered me. I have been dating a man for over a year, we get along great, have so much in common but work opposite hours so it is hard to carve out time for us. Thanksgiving day he did not know if he had to work or not so I did not include him in my plans. I had family and a girlfriend over. 2:30 as we are finishing our meal he calls to tell me that he found out that morning that he didn't have to work. I asked him if he would like to come over, he tells me he will be over later after the football game. Really? That bothered me but I let it go. My birthday comes and he made dinner reservations for us, picked me up, we had a great time. Christmas we made plans to have dinner here, I cooked. He bought me some very nice gifts, had a nice day but then went home saying he wasn't sure if he was going to get called into work the next day....he normally works evenings and has been called in earlier a few times but he had to go home? Hum, okay! And well, that was the last I heard from him but he does this. We get great times together and then he disappears. About a month ago I told him that I got the feeling that his distance showed his lack of interest and that we sure could move on if he wasn't interested. he told that was not the case at all...he was tired and feeling well. Is there a problem communicating this? I am not a mind reader! It just seems like things are on his time-table.


You need t get the book Mars and Venus on a Date, ASAP! This is not the original mars/Venus book, it was written much later and is about dating rather than marriage. It’s very good and it will explain to you many things about what you just described. Read it 2 or 3 times as some of the concepts take a while to sink in.


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## AVR1962

2ntnuf said:


> I think at this age, we aren't looking for a mate to have and raise children with. I don't think we are looking for someone to wait on us hand and foot. I don't think we are looking for deep conversation to understand ourselves or our mate. I think we are looking for a relationship that is more akin to a human and cat. Sorry, but that's the best analogy I could imagine.
> 
> At this age, what is the goal? What is he trying to achieve by holding you in his arms and caressing you softly? I just can't seem to imagine what is worth all of that. You'd be better off moving in with a woman of similar age and getting your sympathy there, while having a decent man for fun times.


I do not want a female roommate. My children are gone now after 37 years of having a child under my roof and I finally am free to do what I want to do and I would like a special person in my life to do that with. The men I have met say they want the same. It just seems the men I have liked to go beyond casual hellos seem pretty comfortable in their own living space and the life they have created for themselves and I am not they have the room or capacity to share that.


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## AVR1962

Faithful Wife said:


> You need t get the book Mars and Venus on a Date, ASAP! This is not the original mars/Venus book, it was written much later and is about dating rather than marriage. It’s very good and it will explain to you many things about what you just described. Read it 2 or 3 times as some of the concepts take a while to sink in.


Read it years ago....perhaps I should read it again.


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## Faithful Wife

AVR1962 said:


> Read it years ago....perhaps I should read it again.


Yes it will speak new things to you this time, extremely relevant to your sitch.


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## 2ntnuf

AVR1962 said:


> I do not want a female roommate. My children are gone now after 37 years of having a child under my roof and I finally am free to do what I want to do and I would like a special person in my life to do that with. The men I have met say they want the same. It just seems the men I have liked to go beyond casual hellos seem pretty comfortable in their own living space and the life they have created for themselves and I am not they have the room or capacity to share that.


When that special person comes into your life, you will no longer be free to do what you want. Both in a relationship make sacrifices. It's how it works. 

The men want the same, yes. They won't get it, either. It's a dream that will never come true. You can't live with others and do whatever you want. They are always in the way, for one reason or another, just as you think a female roommate might be. It's just that, she wouldn't be looking at you for sex, but rather, companionship and friendship. 

They, these men, don't have the capacity to share that and neither do you. You've intimated it here in this post. That's why I ran with that. I actually "heard" you, rather than just listening.

Edit: If they did have that capacity, they would be living with a woman and you'd have to take him off of her... marriage or not. It's what men do when a woman is in her forties and vulnerable, while they are safe and secure in their career and sexuality. 

That time has passed. I'm sorry. I'm 56 and it's passed for me, as well.


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## 2ntnuf

AVR, I'm sorry for being so blunt and realistic. I have seen you do this to yourself for years. I can't stand it any longer. Reality allows for you to find the things that will truly make you happy. 

I truly apologize. I wouldn't have done that, if it didn't make me cringe every time I read one of your threads.


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## Sue4473

It’s men in their 40’s as well!
They are set in their ways especially if they are divorced and been single for awhile there after.


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## 2ntnuf

Sue4473 said:


> It’s men in their 40’s as well!
> They are set in their ways especially if they are divorced and been single for awhile there after.


I posted that, if you read.


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## Lila

@AVR1962 are you sure he's not ghosting you so that he could meet with other women? Keeps you as plan B, someone he knows will be there waiting for him when he gets good and ready to contact you again?


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## oldshirt

AVR1962 said:


> My ultimate goal is not marriage, I am financially self-sufficient and have a business that is doing well. I do however want a special person to spend my life with. There are certain things I am not willing to "settle" for as I feel I have done this and I was miserable and I feel fortunate to get out of a relationship that was far past its end. I do agree there has to be acceptance on both parties and I am realistic in that regard. Rather tired of the "pick me" "you are the best" that last for 6 months while hormones flood the brain and then once those hormones leave the man no longer is willing to go to the lengths he once was and then it's over because the basketball game or the time to himself is now more important. Have your sports but find that time we can share is my thinking and that just seems almost too much to ask.



Just an FYI, I have never sat and watched any kind of ballgame in my life.


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## Laurentium

I am a few years older than you, in my early 60s. I have more or less given up on women. They do seem unselfaware, in the way that Faithfulwife described. I'm not saying men are any better, they are not: but then I'm not trying to date men! I have my own place, and I don't need a housekeeper, I know how to cook and clean. I have a successful business, and friends, and a religious practice, and exercise, and those things between them take up a lot of time. 
I guess it would be fair to describe me as "set in my ways", but I don't see that as a bad thing at all.



2ntnuf said:


> I think at this age, we aren't looking for a mate to have and raise children with. I don't think we are looking for someone to wait on us hand and foot. I don't think we are looking for *deep conversation to understand ourselves or our mate*.


Personally, I AM looking for the last of those things. Not the others. A more intimate level of conversation. I have no interest in just being housemates. Why would I? Been there and done that with my last LTR, who wanted just to sit and play video games or watch television. And almost a fear of any real talk. That's it. It didn't seem like stupidity. It seemed like a fear of getting to any real topics, any real engagement. 



AVR1962 said:


> I have dated a few very affectionate men who truly were hand holders, huggers, and would kiss me and did not push to get my clothes off. We'd talk for hours and we really had a wonderful friendship going in my opinion.


I am not affectionate in public, nor a hand-holder. 

However, when you say "pushing to get your clothes off", I think men do need assurance, at an early stage, that you are not someone who is going to shame them for having a desire for sex (if they still have one). One hint of the "Oh that's all you men ever think about" shtick and I am heading for the hills. We all need to feel desired, not shamed.

Another thing that I don't want to do AT ALL, that was mentioned somwhere, is talk on the phone, or even worse, text. I had one who wanted to be texting me several times a day, every day. What's with that? I like face to face conversation, body language, engagement, not some shallow "hi how is ur day" every few hours. Ack. 



AVR1962 said:


> My most recent relationship was with a man who was Hot then Cold and it just kept up and had me so confused and there was no progression.


Yeah, that is exactly what I tend to get with women. They balk and run if you talk about progression. Often it seems like they just want a man as a possession, like they are supposed to have one. They haven't thought about what they want or why, so they present with a list of superficial demands like "must be a vegetarian" or "must like the same music as me" or whatever.


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## Marc878

I can only speak from a mans perspective but when you learn to live alone (there are great benefits) there is no burning desire to change that when you get into later years. Companionship is maybe a want but not a need.


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## Faithful Wife

Laurentium said:


> I am a few years older than you, in my early 60s. I have more or less given up on women. They do seem unselfaware, in the way that Faithfulwife described. I'm not saying men are any better, they are not: but then I'm not trying to date men! I have my own place, and I don't need a housekeeper, I know how to cook and clean. I have a successful business, and friends, and a religious practice, and exercise, and those things between them take up a lot of time.
> I guess it would be fair to describe me as "set in my ways", but I don't see that as a bad thing at all.
> 
> 
> Personally, I AM looking for the last of those things. Not the others. A more intimate level of conversation. I have no interest in just being housemates. Why would I? Been there and done that with my last LTR, who wanted just to sit and play video games or watch television. And almost a fear of any real talk. That's it. It didn't seem like stupidity. It seemed like a fear of getting to any real topics, any real engagement.
> 
> 
> 
> I am not affectionate in public, nor a hand-holder.
> 
> However, when you say "pushing to get your clothes off", I think men do need assurance, at an early stage, that you are not someone who is going to shame them for having a desire for sex (if they still have one). One hint of the "Oh that's all you men ever think about" shtick and I am heading for the hills. We all need to feel desired, not shamed.
> 
> Another thing that I don't want to do AT ALL, that was mentioned somwhere, is talk on the phone, or even worse, text. I had one who wanted to be texting me several times a day, every day. What's with that? I like face to face conversation, body language, engagement, not some shallow "hi how is ur day" every few hours. Ack.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, that is exactly what I tend to get with women. They balk and run if you talk about progression. Often it seems like they just want a man as a possession, like they are supposed to have one. They haven't thought about what they want or why, so they present with a list of superficial demands like "must be a vegetarian" or "must like the same music as me" or whatever.


I feel like we all have to seek our own level with things like affection, modes and amount of communication, etc.

I’ve had this happen twice recently: go on a great date. Guy says he wants to see me again, I agree. Then nothing. No call or text for a couple of weeks. I move on and think nothing of it (things happen, people meet someone else, no one owes us anything).

Then a text comes out of the blue 2 or 3 weeks later. Hey, sorry I’ve been out of town, I’ll be back on xx date. Would you like to get together? At this point, no, I don’t want to get together again. No hard feelings but I’m not really feeling anything for someone if we only had one good date and then no contact for weeks. In the meantime, I’m exploring the many other options I have. I assume he is also, and if he isn’t and just was out of town for weeks and didn’t text once or call, I just know we aren’t going to have the same preference in type and amount of contact. I’m having too much fun with the guys who do text (and I don’t mean all day long nonsense).

I’ve found there are some guys who seem to have the perfect amount of contact that I want as their preference, too. When I meet one of those, those things just flow naturally and neither feels smothered or lack of attention. 

I think people should pay attention to these kinds of compatibility markers because they point to other things, too.

Like I am very sexual, and very affectionate. I can’t live without a lot of both in a relationship and I’m not going to try. I’ve been with some who wanted the sex but wouldn’t touch or kiss me otherwise. That’s just not my thang, gotta bounce outta there. It’s pretty clear early on if someone is not generally affectionate, so typically I don’t get to the stage of having sex with someone who isn’t affectionate because I already know we aren’t a match.

These are items of self awareness that I have acquired. Things like “oh he’s maybe not as affectionate as I would like but maybe I can live with it” are no longer in my head. It’s just “aw dang, well that one’s out. Onward.”


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## Laurentium

Faithful Wife said:


> I feel like we all have to seek our own level with things like affection, modes and amount of communication, etc. ...
> 
> I’ve found there are some guys who seem to have the perfect amount of contact that I want as their preference, too. When I meet one of those, those things just flow naturally and neither feels smothered or lack of attention.
> 
> I think people should pay attention to these kinds of compatibility markers because they point to other things, too.


Yes I completely agree



> Like I am very sexual, and very affectionate. I can’t live without a lot of both in a relationship and I’m not going to try. I’ve been with some who wanted the sex but wouldn’t touch or kiss me otherwise. That’s just not my thang, gotta bounce outta there.


Quite right. I think we would (hypothetically) rule each other out pretty quickly! And with no disrespect.



> if he isn’t and just was out of town for weeks and didn’t text once or call, I just know we aren’t going to have the same preference in type and amount of contact. I’m having too much fun with the guys who do text (and I don’t mean all day long nonsense).


Just to be clear, of course I have no objection to texting for communicating news, like "I am going to be out of town in xxxx place for 2 weeks" , or the "how was your day" phone call *if I AM out of town* and can't do the face to face thing. That's different.


----------



## Wolf1974

Marc878 said:


> I can only speak from a mans perspective but when you learn to live alone (there are great benefits) there is no burning desire to change that when you get into later years. Companionship is maybe a want but not a need.


I agree here. I was married and never wanted to divorce but it was the only option once she cheated. I went into singledom kicking and screaming. Hated it. Used to go to Walmart and walk around for hours to not be alone in my house. 

As time went on I redesigned my life my way. After being forced to compromise in so many ways during a 10 year marriage I decided I would compromise no more which makes me difficult in relationships. So when it comes to dating I don’t mind pursing and playing the game but I don’t always want a committed relationship from it either. I am always honest and forthcoming with that information but I had to learn to be. In the beginning I thought I was being clear and I wasn’t. Makes me wonder about some of the men your meeting OP


----------



## AVR1962

2ntnuf said:


> AVR, I'm sorry for being so blunt and realistic. I have seen you do this to yourself for years. I can't stand it any longer. Reality allows for you to find the things that will truly make you happy.
> 
> I truly apologize. I wouldn't have done that, if it didn't make me cringe every time I read one of your threads.


Then, don't read my threads. I actually do enjoy life, I have friends and do my own thing. For so many years though I have felt alone. When the kids were home it was them I spent so much time with. I would visit family on a regular basis. My career has been a success. I spent 5 years in counseling before I ever left my husband trying to put the pieces together in my life which was a real eye opener and all I seemed to get on this site was, "Just leave the guy already." I have very much enjoyed being single and have met some real interested men, some very thoughtful and kind men. It has been nice to meet men who actually can talk and communicate well, my ex was the worst. So I come on here and this is what you want to say to me. Don't apologize for being so rude, just skip my posts and save yourself some time and frustration.....I would hate for you to "cringe" reading anything I have to say.


----------



## AVR1962

Laurentium said:


> I am a few years older than you, in my early 60s. I have more or less given up on women. They do seem unselfaware, in the way that Faithfulwife described. I'm not saying men are any better, they are not: but then I'm not trying to date men! I have my own place, and I don't need a housekeeper, I know how to cook and clean. I have a successful business, and friends, and a religious practice, and exercise, and those things between them take up a lot of time.
> I guess it would be fair to describe me as "set in my ways", but I don't see that as a bad thing at all.
> 
> 
> Personally, I AM looking for the last of those things. Not the others. A more intimate level of conversation. I have no interest in just being housemates. Why would I? Been there and done that with my last LTR, who wanted just to sit and play video games or watch television. And almost a fear of any real talk. That's it. It didn't seem like stupidity. It seemed like a fear of getting to any real topics, any real engagement.
> 
> 
> 
> I am not affectionate in public, nor a hand-holder.
> 
> However, when you say "pushing to get your clothes off", I think men do need assurance, at an early stage, that you are not someone who is going to shame them for having a desire for sex (if they still have one). One hint of the "Oh that's all you men ever think about" shtick and I am heading for the hills. We all need to feel desired, not shamed.
> 
> Another thing that I don't want to do AT ALL, that was mentioned somwhere, is talk on the phone, or even worse, text. I had one who wanted to be texting me several times a day, every day. What's with that? I like face to face conversation, body language, engagement, not some shallow "hi how is ur day" every few hours. Ack.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, that is exactly what I tend to get with women. They balk and run if you talk about progression. Often it seems like they just want a man as a possession, like they are supposed to have one. They haven't thought about what they want or why, so they present with a list of superficial demands like "must be a vegetarian" or "must like the same music as me" or whatever.



And all your responses here is why I posted to begin with. It is obvious you do not understand women and don't seem to care to and I do not understand the male mind. I think there will always be that separation no matter how much each sex tries.


----------



## AVR1962

Lila said:


> @AVR1962 are you sure he's not ghosting you so that he could meet with other women? Keeps you as plan B, someone he knows will be there waiting for him when he gets good and ready to contact you again?


Who knows!!!!


----------



## Laurentium

AVR1962 said:


> And all your responses here is why I posted to begin with. It is obvious you do not understand women and don't seem to care to


I guess that's true. I love women, I like their company, and want to spend time talking with them, both as friends, and in a closer monogamous couple. I am good friends with several exes. But I don't see it as my job to understand them. I hope for them to understand themselves, but they don't seem to. I go on what they do, how they behave.


----------



## arbitrator

*Her personality, spirituality over materialism, empathy, non-judgmentalness, and her heart!*


----------



## BluesPower

AVR1962 said:


> My ultimate goal is not marriage, I am financially self-sufficient and have a business that is doing well. I do however want a special person to spend my life with. There are certain things I am not willing to "settle" for as I feel I have done this and I was miserable and I feel fortunate to get out of a relationship that was far past its end. I do agree there has to be acceptance on both parties and I am realistic in that regard. Rather tired of the "pick me" "you are the best" that last for 6 months while hormones flood the brain and then once those hormones leave the man no longer is willing to go to the lengths he once was and then it's over because the basketball game or the time to himself is now more important. Have your sports but find that time we can share is my thinking and that just seems almost too much to ask.


I kind of disagree with some of the things that people are saying, except @faithfulwife... 

There are a ton of people out there that are completely UN-self-aware. And the other thing I will say is that you have not met the right man. They are out there. 

However, understand a few things... If a man is self-aware, like me (I want to believe any way) , they know what they want. And some guys just want to get laid, some guys want a relationship, and some guys want both. 

Things you need to look out for, and learn how to navigate... 

1) Is he ready to settle down, at some level and actually have a relationship? 
2) Is he self aware and does he even know what he wants for his life? 
3) If he good in bed, yes it matters, unless you don't enjoy sex and then it probably does not matter. 

For example, my GF, was basically done with men until I came along. For me I was smitten right away, and I was in, but I was also ready for a serious relationship, so I was in the right place. 

I think after the second date, maybe the third, she said she had a 90 day policy, and after I finished laughing and rolling on the floor, I said cool call me in 90 days. 

The next night, after we had sex for the first time, I asked if she still thought the 90 policy was a good idea, and she said, "Not with you"...

So as a guy your age, I am not going to waste time waiting to know if we are good in bed together or not. If we are not, then there is no reason to continue with each other. And you know, it make take two or three times to find out, but at this age is that part is not good, for me, I am not interested... 

Now the rest of the relationship is great, as well as the sex, and that is what I want for my life, a great romantic, sexual love that will last until I die... 

So some of this is picking the right man, and learning how to navigate all of this. 

Does that make sense...


----------



## minimalME

BluesPower said:


> I kind of disagree with some of the things that people are saying, except @faithfulwife...
> 
> I think after the second date, maybe the third, she said she had a 90 day policy, and *after I finished laughing and rolling on the floor, I said cool call me in 90 days. *
> 
> The next night, after we had sex for the first time, I asked if she still thought the 90 policy was a good idea, and she said, "Not with you"...
> 
> Does that make sense...


It makes sense, but, personally, I find your behavior disrespectful and arrogant. I mean, she shared her standard, (which obviously wasn't her standard) and you laughed. 

I'm glad it worked out for both of you. I never would've called.


----------



## BluesPower

minimalME said:


> It makes sense, but, personally, I find your behavior disrespectful and arrogant. I mean, she shared her standard, (which obviously wasn't her standard) and you laughed.
> 
> I'm glad it worked out for both of you. I never would've called.


Yes I laughed and could not stop... 

And you are welcome to think that, it does not bother me, and I take no offense.

Do don't date women that are not into having sex, period. Nor will I wait some arbitrary amount of time, to figure out if we are good in bed together. 

Sorry, but I bring a lot of things to a relationship, including great sex. So if you want to me with me, then you can get on my train or you get left behind. 

It really is a simple as that. 

BY the way, she is really happy that she did not try and stick by that original arbitrary time table, she would have missed out on all of those O's and she would have missed out on me as well...

To edit: @minimalME yes I am arrogant, and happily so, because I think I am great, and I can back it up...


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

OP,

From very successful "dating" prior to M, and now married over 34yrs, happy, and frequent sex life, and successful professional life state if mind. Kids and grandkids. 

I offer the following, while certainly not claiming I have all the answers or even the best answers; just sharing personal and friends experiences shared throughout the years 

Men in late 40s, 50s, are either emotionally and financially "settled", or in the process of getting their minds' settled. 

It's where they are in this X/Y scale that colors their actions.

With each man's core values as an anchor the above drives each one, surprising similarities are common among many men. 

Using "emotional" and "financial" states and the degree of being "settled" is kind of generic, but:

If a woman or man finds a person whose definition of being "settled" means approximately the same as theirs, there is potential of a relationship. 

In older folks as such, there needs to be a mutually good/great sexual compatibility with nailed down expectations. Because this might also have been a big part (or not) of previous relationship problems/failures. 

Then the future....what are each's long term objectives? Reasonably similar? 

Because at this point in life, most have some. If one SO in a relationship says that they'll exchange theirs just to have a "relationship", that likely won't last, and problems will arise. 

Now so far I don't think I'm saying anything you and most on TAM dont already know.

I say all of the above to get to actual interaction comments with lives at our age in looking for or at least being open to a relationship. My comments are for interactions between two "settled" persons in the focused age brackets mentioned. 

First, some men "dating" still have the potential to accept crazy sex and crazy short flings when put in front of them. This colors how they may act when they meet a keeper like yourself, and pure timing of meeting may prevent a deeper/the better or even permanent relationship from developing. 

Some men will avoid the crazy, and being set in their "schedules" these are are open quicker to deeper relationships but if they decide to avoid the crazies they are more decisive that a relationship develops on "their" schedule AT LEAST AT FIRST.

But as a deeper relationship develops this man will be willing to compromise, TO A POINT. 

But if a relationship takes root, the woman will be someone he'll be committed to. Not many games if any at all in this stage of life. 

I'll use the terms compromise and "want to" rather than settle and sacrifice, as on looks towards finding a person to have a relationship with.

If one starts out with expectations of "having to settle for" one is already saying they won't really want the person they "catch". 

Not a generally good way to plan a ltr, right?

Didn't mean to write such a long post!


----------



## AVR1962

BluesPower said:


> I kind of disagree with some of the things that people are saying, except @faithfulwife...
> 
> There are a ton of people out there that are completely UN-self-aware. And the other thing I will say is that you have not met the right man. They are out there.
> 
> However, understand a few things... If a man is self-aware, like me (I want to believe any way) , they know what they want. And some guys just want to get laid, some guys want a relationship, and some guys want both.
> 
> Things you need to look out for, and learn how to navigate...
> 
> 1) Is he ready to settle down, at some level and actually have a relationship?
> 2) Is he self aware and does he even know what he wants for his life?
> 3) If he good in bed, yes it matters, unless you don't enjoy sex and then it probably does not matter.
> 
> For example, my GF, was basically done with men until I came along. For me I was smitten right away, and I was in, but I was also ready for a serious relationship, so I was in the right place.
> 
> I think after the second date, maybe the third, she said she had a 90 day policy, and after I finished laughing and rolling on the floor, I said cool call me in 90 days.
> 
> The next night, after we had sex for the first time, I asked if she still thought the 90 policy was a good idea, and she said, "Not with you"...
> 
> So as a guy your age, I am not going to waste time waiting to know if we are good in bed together or not. If we are not, then there is no reason to continue with each other. And you know, it make take two or three times to find out, but at this age is that part is not good, for me, I am not interested...
> 
> Now the rest of the relationship is great, as well as the sex, and that is what I want for my life, a great romantic, sexual love that will last until I die...
> 
> So some of this is picking the right man, and learning how to navigate all of this.
> 
> Does that make sense...


Yes, that makes perfect sense. Thank you for your reply.


----------



## AVR1962

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> OP,
> 
> In older folks as such, there needs to be a mutually good/great sexual compatibility with nailed down expectations. Because this might also have been a big part (or not) of previous relationship problems/failures.
> 
> Then the future....what are each's long term objectives? Reasonably similar?
> 
> Because at this point in life, most have some. If one SO in a relationship says that they'll exchange theirs just to have a "relationship", that likely won't last, and problems will arise.
> 
> Now so far I don't think I'm saying anything you and most on TAM dont already know.
> 
> I say all of the above to get to actual interaction comments with lives at our age in looking for or at least being open to a relationship. My comments are for interactions between two "settled" persons in the focused age brackets mentioned.
> 
> First, some men "dating" still have the potential to accept crazy sex and crazy short flings when put in front of them. This colors how they may act when they meet a keeper like yourself, and pure timing of meeting may prevent a deeper/the better or even permanent relationship from developing.
> 
> Some men will avoid the crazy, and being set in their "schedules" these are are open quicker to deeper relationships but if they decide to avoid the crazies they are more decisive that a relationship develops on "their" schedule AT LEAST AT FIRST.
> 
> But as a deeper relationship develops this man will be willing to compromise, TO A POINT.
> 
> But if a relationship takes root, the woman will be someone he'll be committed to. Not many games if any at all in this stage of life.
> 
> I'll use the terms compromise and "want to" rather than settle and sacrifice, as on looks towards finding a person to have a relationship with.
> 
> If one starts out with expectations of "having to settle for" one is already saying they won't really want the person they "catch".
> 
> Not a generally good way to plan a ltr, right?
> 
> Didn't mean to write such a long post!


Thank you, I so understand everything said and I do appreciate the time and effort you put into your reply. 

In the 2 1/2 years of dating I have probably had 200 contacts with men and dated 20 of these. Most did not get past date 2 for me and it was me that turned these men down. I have not been ghosted. There are great men out there but as mentioned in the reply here I was not attracted somehow, and for me, there has to be that attraction. Mannerisms get to me and when men talk about nothing but themselves on the first date I will not see them again so I definitely am not settling. 

The man I have been seeing for over a year was one of two men that I actually had the desire to get to know. I have never in my life felt for a man like I do about this guy. When I first saw him there was something in his eyes, talk about memorized for lack of better word. He has been a complete gentleman with me and has never pushed the physical but is very attentive when we are together. We do not just have a sexual relationship but that part of our relationship together has been fabulous. I have seen how he is with his daughter who he raised himself...he is an amazing dad. The man has been concerned about his younger sister who is my age. Christmas day she called him with good news that he'd been worried about and he broke down in tears telling me. So I have seen amazing things from this man. He has wonderful insight and maturity. Time is a problem. 

He called yesterday and I let him know that I was disappointed that he had not returned my call Saturday, Saturday night normally is our night out. He apologized, said he had to get caught up on the house but that is where I wish he would say these things before-hand. Doubts run thru my head when these things happen and I question alot in my head however, the times I have not obviously checked out his statements I have not ever caught him being dishonest. He is not perfect by all means.


----------



## Faithful Wife

AVR1962 said:


> Thank you, I so understand everything said and I do appreciate the time and effort you put into your reply.
> 
> In the 2 1/2 years of dating I have probably had 200 contacts with men and dated 20 of these. Most did not get past date 2 for me and it was me that turned these men down. I have not been ghosted. There are great men out there but as mentioned in the reply here I was not attracted somehow, and for me, there has to be that attraction. Mannerisms get to me and when men talk about nothing but themselves on the first date I will not see them again so I definitely am not settling.
> 
> The man I have been seeing for over a year was one of two men that I actually had the desire to get to know. I have never in my life felt for a man like I do about this guy. When I first saw him there was something in his eyes, talk about memorized for lack of better word. He has been a complete gentleman with me and has never pushed the physical but is very attentive when we are together. We do not just have a sexual relationship but that part of our relationship together has been fabulous. I have seen how he is with his daughter who he raised himself...he is an amazing dad. The man has been concerned about his younger sister who is my age. Christmas day she called him with good news that he'd been worried about and he broke down in tears telling me. So I have seen amazing things from this man. He has wonderful insight and maturity. Time is a problem.
> 
> He called yesterday and I let him know that I was disappointed that he had not returned my call Saturday, Saturday night normally is our night out. He apologized, said he had to get caught up on the house but that is where I wish he would say these things before-hand. Doubts run thru my head when these things happen and I question alot in my head however, the times I have not obviously checked out his statements I have not ever caught him being dishonest. He is not perfect by all means.


Again, MV on a Date will explain all of these behaviors to you (including why a lot of men talk so much about themselves on early dates, and why your guy sometimes “loses track of time”.)


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

BluesPower said:


> To edit: @minimalME yes I am arrogant, and happily so, because I think I am great, and I can back it up...




ar·ro·gant
/ˈerəɡənt/Submit
adjective
Having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities.

Inherent in the definition of arrogant, is that the self view exceeds reality... therefore, by definition, it is impossible to "back up" one's arrogance. The two are mutually exclusive.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

minimalME said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by BluesPower:
> I kind of disagree with some of the things that people are saying, except @faithfulwife...
> 
> I think after the second date, maybe the third, she said she had a 90 day policy, and after I finished laughing and rolling on the floor, I said cool call me in 90 days.
> 
> The next night, after we had sex for the first time, I asked if she still thought the 90 policy was a good idea, and she said, "Not with you"...
> 
> Does that make sense...
> 
> 
> It makes sense, but, personally, I find your behavior disrespectful and arrogant. I mean, she shared her standard, (which obviously wasn't her standard) and you laughed.
> 
> I'm glad it worked out for both of you. I never would've called.


I gotta go with @BluesPower on this, especially the rolling on floor part.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I gotta go with @BluesPower on this, especially the rolling on floor part.


I have heard the “I won’t wait for some arbitrary timeline in order to have sex” line before also.

It’s an auto next.

Doesn’t matter what “might have been”. If someone tells me they have any kind of boundary, I will respect it. And if that means we aren’t a match, I will say so. What I will not do is a carrot dance in order to “make my point” then boast after I’ve coerced someone past their boundaries.

Men have boundaries too and I respect them. I don’t mock them and I don’t assume they are being “silly” or petty by having them. If their boundaries don’t line up with mine, no hard feelings.


----------



## BluesPower

Faithful Wife said:


> I have heard the “I won’t wait for some arbitrary timeline in order to have sex” line before also.
> 
> It’s an auto next.
> 
> Doesn’t matter what “might have been”. If someone tells me they have any kind of boundary, I will respect it. And if that means we aren’t a match, I will say so. What I will not do is a carrot dance in order to “make my point” then boast after I’ve coerced someone past their boundaries.
> 
> Men have boundaries too and I respect them. I don’t mock them and I don’t assume they are being “silly” or petty by having them. If their boundaries don’t line up with mine, no hard feelings.


That is your right to hang it up. And I am not boasting. But I don't wait that long for sex with ANY woman, never have never will. 

She is the one that decided to pass on her boundary. If it meant that we were not together, oh well, that is life. 

I don't think she regrets it though. I guess time will tell...

And yes, I mock those boundaries, or not really mock, I mean someone can have any boundary they want. However, I don't waste time with women that don't want to have sex, I just don't. And if they don't see that I am a good risk, then that is their problem. I am happy to move on... At my age I don't have the time to waste. 

Call me callous or arrogant or whatever, but I have never met a woman that was good enough in bed for me to wait 90 days for sex. I mean talk about mink lined or something all you want. It is not for me... 

I am allowed to have my boundaries as well and that is one of them...


----------



## Faithful Wife

BluesPower said:


> That is your right to hang it up. And I am not boasting. But I don't wait that long for sex with ANY woman, never have never will.
> 
> She is the one that decided to pass on her boundary. If it meant that we were not together, oh well, that is life.
> 
> I don't think she regrets it though. I guess time will tell...
> 
> And yes, I mock those boundaries, or not really mock, I mean someone can have any boundary they want. However, I don't waste time with women that don't want to have sex, I just don't. And if they don't see that I am a good risk, then that is their problem. I am happy to move on... At my age I don't have the time to waste.
> 
> Call me callous or arrogant or whatever, but I have never met a woman that was good enough in bed for me to wait 90 days for sex. I mean talk about mink lined or something all you want. It is not for me...
> 
> I am allowed to have my boundaries as well and that is one of them...


Yes and I would have totally respected your boundary and said guess we aren’t a match then, thanks.

The last guy who said that to me, I said sorry, I know what I need in order to have great sex, and it’s not going to happen on the 3rd date. He said bummer because he doesn’t follow arbitrary guidelines like that. I said I get it, you know what you need and I know what I need. We made out and it was great! He had a body that was like The Rock. I got my hands all over it, like I had been wanting to. Then I wished him well and left and never saw him again.

He’s been texting me trying to see me ever since. That was over a year ago.


----------



## BluesPower

Faithful Wife said:


> Yes and I would have totally respected your boundary and said guess we aren’t a match then, thanks.
> 
> The last guy who said that to me, I said sorry, I know what I need in order to have great sex, and it’s not going to happen on the 3rd date. He said bummer because he doesn’t follow arbitrary guidelines like that. I said I get it, you know what you need and I know what I need. We made out and it was great! He had a body that was like The Rock. I got my hands all over it, like I had been wanting to. Then I wished him well and left and never saw him again.
> 
> He’s been texting me trying to see me ever since. That was over a year ago.


Well good for you, I am glad you know where you stand, just like I do. 

And for the record, I never call back... EVER.


----------



## 2ntnuf

AVR1962 said:


> *Then, don't read my threads.* I actually do enjoy life, I have friends and do my own thing. For so many years though I have felt alone. When the kids were home it was them I spent so much time with. I would visit family on a regular basis. My career has been a success. I spent 5 years in counseling before I ever left my husband trying to put the pieces together in my life which was a real eye opener and all I seemed to get on this site was, "Just leave the guy already." I have very much enjoyed being single and have met some real interested men, some very thoughtful and kind men. It has been nice to meet men who actually can talk and communicate well, my ex was the worst. So I come on here and this is what you want to say to me. Don't apologize for being so rude, just skip my posts and save yourself some time and frustration.....I would hate for you to "cringe" reading anything I have to say.


I usually don't read your threads for the aforementioned reasons. 

Why didn't you marry one of those men you say were real interested, thoughtful and kind? 

Don't worry, I'll never apologize to you again. I'll say it the way it is and you can take it or leave it, like everyone else.


----------



## EleGirl

Interesting response on this site....

https://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/sex/is-sex-on-the-third-date-the-new-normal


----------



## Faithful Wife

BluesPower said:


> Well good for you, I am glad you know where you stand, just like I do.
> 
> And for the record, I never call back... EVER.


A weird thing to say, as if it means you are special? To me it shows your lack of self awareness. You don’t realize that if you have truly moved on and have no desire to call someone back, there’s no reason to declare it like it is some kind of victory. 

It’s also an arbitrary decision you have made to prove some kind of point. Just like your argument with arbitrary timelines a woman may have for how long she wants to wait to become sexual with someone new.

I don’t treat the opposite sex like an enemy that I have to make proclamations about like “I NEVER, have sex on the first date, EVER!” 

My boundaries are based on what I know about my body and mind and what they need in order for me to have the best sex possible for ME. It’s not arbitrary, and it’s not based on keeping a man in his place. In fact, if I could have great sex on the first date I would do it when the time seemed right, if it did. However, I know better and am self aware. It doesn’t matter how turned on my body is in the moment, without some key features that I need present in a sexual relationship, the sex won’t be as good as it can be for me. And I’m no longer willing to have “meh” sex at this point in my life. I’d rather abstain.

Any man who would try to convince me that he would give me good sex so I needn’t worry about it being on an earlier date than I want to have it, auto next. I don’t need just a “good at sex” guy.


----------



## Faithful Wife

EleGirl said:


> Interesting response on this site....
> 
> https://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/sex/is-sex-on-the-third-date-the-new-normal


I totally agree that there’s nothing wrong with a man just because he wants to have sex on date 1, 2, or 3.

It’s just that if he has a hissy fit when I don’t want to, then I have my answer and am glad to get out early.


----------



## Luminous

minimalME said:


> It makes sense, but, personally, I find your behavior disrespectful and arrogant. I mean, she shared her standard, (which obviously wasn't her standard) and you laughed.
> 
> I'm glad it worked out for both of you. I never would've called.


I find it interesting that you condemn one person's behaviour/attitude, yet excuse the other for saying that this is their 'boundary' and then they reneg a day later... 

'oh, not with you'... yeah right...

Ever heard of a **** test? In this case, it looks like BluesPower saw it for what it was and called her bluff.

You do realise that there are women out there that use sex to get what they want right?


----------



## Openminded

AVR, this guy has been the same way from the beginning, IIRC? You've discussed this with him in the past more than once and yet it continues. He's just not interested in modifying his behavior for you. This is who he is. Do you like him enough to continue to see him despite the way he acts sometimes?


----------



## rv10flyer

Lila said:


> @AVR1962 are you sure he's not ghosting you so that he could meet with other women? Keeps you as plan B, someone he knows will be there waiting for him when he gets good and ready to contact you again?


This is what I was thinking.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Luminous said:


> I find it interesting that you condemn one person's behaviour/attitude, yet excuse the other for saying that this is their 'boundary' and then they reneg a day later...
> 
> 'oh, not with you'... yeah right...
> 
> Ever heard of a **** test? In this case, it looks like BluesPower saw it for what it was and called her bluff.
> 
> You do realise that there are women out there that use sex to get what they want right?


OK if anyone is on a date with me and thinks I’m about to use sex to “get something” from them, then I’m already on a date with an unaware man. 

Sorry but this is adulthood, not high school. A woman has sex to feel pleasure and to have sex. Because again, adulthood.

If any guy has had issues with “women who wouldn’t give it up” or women who “use sex to get things they want”, then they are not healed up and adult enough for me. 

There are men, get this, who don’t need or even think of playing “games”, or pressuring for sex because she is “**** testing you”. There are men who know that sex is going to happen because we are adults entering an adult relationship and sex is what adults in relationships do. If he is still hung up on thinking that he has to duck, dodge and weave her “excuses”, then he’s not in my league yet.

When he one day realizes that women who are as sexual as he wants to be don’t play those stupid games, then he might be ready for one.

Until then he will just remain convinced that sex is something that men “get” from women, and he will still meet women who have sex just to “get something they want” from him.


----------



## aine

AVR1962 said:


> I have dated a few very affectionate men who truly were hand holders, huggers, and would kiss me and did not push to get my clothes off. We'd talk for hours and we really had a wonderful friendship going in my opinion. Thankfully none of the men I have seen and got to know well had drama going with their ex. I have had many say they don't like drama, I get that, neither do I and if it becomes more hurt than fun it is time to call it off and move on. I am not a fighter and I think men see that with me. I deal with the public every day so dealing with situations is common place for me. If anything, I might let too much slide.....I find men to be pretty set in their ways and for the most part of that I let go of alot as it is not worth it to me when he says, "I was right,".....whatever!
> 
> I would also say that both the men I have dated that went past 6 date (I let them go pretty fast) were both self-aware and I get what you are saying about the chase.
> 
> I am going to be more specific here as these things have bothered me. I have been dating a man for over a year, we get along great, have so much in common but work opposite hours so it is hard to carve out time for us. Thanksgiving day he did not know if he had to work or not so I did not include him in my plans. I had family and a girlfriend over. 2:30 as we are finishing our meal he calls to tell me that he found out that morning that he didn't have to work. I asked him if he would like to come over, he tells me he will be over later after the football game. Really? That bothered me but I let it go. My birthday comes and he made dinner reservations for us, picked me up, we had a great time. Christmas we made plans to have dinner here, I cooked. He bought me some very nice gifts, had a nice day but then went home saying he wasn't sure if he was going to get called into work the next day....he normally works evenings and has been called in earlier a few times but he had to go home? Hum, okay! And well, that was the last I heard from him but he does this. We get great times together and then he disappears. About a month ago I told him that I got the feeling that his distance showed his lack of interest and that we sure could move on if he wasn't interested. he told that was not the case at all...he was tired and feeling well. Is there a problem communicating this? I am not a mind reader! It just seems like things are on his time-table.



He may have settled into a routine as he is older and it works for her m. Or he may be dating someone else too, keeping his options open.


----------



## aine

BluesPower said:


> Yes I laughed and could not stop...
> 
> And you are welcome to think that, it does not bother me, and I take no offense.
> 
> Do don't date women that are not into having sex, period. Nor will I wait some arbitrary amount of time, to figure out if we are good in bed together.
> 
> Sorry, but I bring a lot of things to a relationship, including great sex. So if you want to me with me, then you can get on my train or you get left behind.
> 
> It really is a simple as that.
> 
> BY the way, she is really happy that she did not try and stick by that original arbitrary time table, she would have missed out on all of those O's and she would have missed out on me as well...
> 
> To edit: @minimalME yes I am arrogant, and happily so, because I think I am great, and I can back it up...


Hope the passing years don’t affect your hydraulics esp if your new woman is younger, if great sex is your major go to, then you’d be a huge let down for her. IMO sexual prowess alone doesn’t maketh the man, and neither does arrogance.


----------



## minimalME

Luminous said:


> I find it interesting that you condemn one person's behaviour/attitude, yet excuse the other for saying that this is their 'boundary' and then they reneg a day later...
> 
> 'oh, not with you'... yeah right...
> 
> Ever heard of a **** test? In this case, it looks like BluesPower saw it for what it was and called her bluff.
> 
> You do realise that there are women out there that use sex to get what they want right?


I didn't excuse her. Read the post again. 

And if her behavior was a **** test, so was his. Personally, I don't do power struggles. Especially with strangers.

She simply should've kept her thoughts to herself. She was upfront and honest, and he manipulatively used that against her. She then gave in because she feared losing him _more_ than standing up for herself and being the person she claimed to be.

Why would you want to start a relationship like that?


----------



## 269370

AVR1962 said:


> My single lady friends went out recently.....subject always turns to dating and men at some point in the night. All of us are over 50. Listening to their dating experiences I realize we all have pretty much dealt with the same type of issues. It is easy to see thru the men that tell you they love you on the second date, push for the physical, ask you to go away for the weekend but don't call to talk on the phone.....and easy to say good-bye in these situations. What I am really tired of is the men who chase, want to be the "winner" of that chase and as long as you ignore. You let them in, and then they hold out the stop hand. Also tired of the men who have to have everything their way.....I work a 40 hour week, mostly afternoons into evening so I get off late and I find men want me to try to work around their schedule....really? It would be nice to get off at 8 pm and have a gentleman standing there with a glass of wine in hand but instead I hear how tired THEY are after their week and how they just need a day to re-coop, yet I am expected to go out of an evening work days....what am I missing here?
> 
> 
> 
> I have several male friends who are just friends, I know what I like and I know what I am looking for and I tend to make male friends because I am not interested in anything more from these men....again, seems to be that chase thing that men eat up.....I don't want them so they want me. I have heard my male friends' dating experiences too....funny how many of them tell me they just wanted sex and then they ended up liking the girl and got dumped or they couldn't get rid of her after sleeping with them. Seems age-old but women want love and men want sex. If a couple actually reach a point of having a relationship So many (men and women) are so wounded that we no longer let people get close. My most recent relationship was with a man who was Hot then Cold and it just kept up and had me so confused and there was no progression. What I realized is he could only get so close, it was his way to feel love without getting hurt. I am starting to feel that "love" is an illusion.
> 
> 
> 
> My question, probably more so for the older men here.....what is it that keeps you interested in that one special person in your life?




Try dating women and see if you spot the difference 


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## 2ntnuf

"Love", the feeling, IS an illusion.



> "Falling in love causes our body to release a flood of feel-good chemicals that trigger specific physical reactions," said Pat Mumby, PhD, co-director of the Loyola Sexual Wellness Clinic and professor, Department of Psychiatry & Behavioral Neurosciences, Loyola University Chicago Stritch School of Medicine (SSOM). "This internal elixir of love is responsible for making our cheeks flush, our palms sweat and our hearts race."
> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/02/140206155244.htm


In my personal opinion, it can be described as "delusion". Why? Because I've read too many stories of folks putting up with crap they've chosen and then blaming others for the consequences.


----------



## 269370

AVR1962 said:


> And all your responses here is why I posted to begin with. It is obvious you do not understand women and don't seem to care to and I do not understand the male mind. I think there will always be that separation no matter how much each sex tries.



Are all the nice people already taken? I don’t quite understand this: I met so many nice girls when I was dating (when I was 15-17 or thereabouts). But also lots of entitled ones (very irritating). Figured out very quickly what I liked/disliked in women. I still meet (what seem like) quite nice (single) women in my age bracket (38), professionally or socially but since I have been with the same woman since 16-17, I obviously don’t date. 
Does this change later? It’s quite sad to read when it gets to a stage when women (or men) lose hope and lump everyone together into the same category. There are many diverse types: you just have to keep looking. Eventually a good one turns up. You just need to know what it is you want (or don’t want). Not all men are or think the same.


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## 269370

BluesPower said:


> I think after the second date, maybe the third, she said she had a 90 day policy, and after I finished laughing and rolling on the floor, I said cool call me in 90 days.



I hate generalising but...a lot of them say that...it’s called playing ‘hard to get’. You have to go by the actions not words.

There are of course women who don’t have sex on the second date AND don’t verbalise it like that (they just....don’t have sex when they consider it to be too soon). I always felt that’s something to have respect for. Maybe this changes with age? Or maybe times are different? 

I was surprised to read multiple threads where women complain why their date doesn’t push harder for sex sooner. I was always put off by women who can’t stop advertising their sexuality. 99% of the time it is just an attention seeking mechanism, nothing more. A lot of (clueless) men bite and later complain why the ‘package’ turned out to be not ‘as advertised’....but I digress.



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## 269370

BluesPower said:


> BY the way, she is really happy that she did not try and stick by that original arbitrary time table, she would have missed out on all of those O's and she would have missed out on me as well...
> /QUOTE]
> 
> 
> Haha, sorry I spit out my drink
> A man has GOT to be able to bring more to the table than a bunch of ‘mind blowing’ Os...? Or were you joking?
> This is funny...
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 2ntnuf

https://www.quora.com/Do-middle-age...ey-show-their-disapproval-from-being-bothered


I accidentally ran across this. I thought it was appropriate for this thread and sympathetic to your plight.


----------



## happiness27

Faithful Wife said:


> I have heard the “I won’t wait for some arbitrary timeline in order to have sex” line before also.
> 
> It’s an auto next.
> 
> Doesn’t matter what “might have been”. If someone tells me they have any kind of boundary, I will respect it. And if that means we aren’t a match, I will say so. What I will not do is a carrot dance in order to “make my point” then boast after I’ve coerced someone past their boundaries.
> 
> Men have boundaries too and I respect them. I don’t mock them and I don’t assume they are being “silly” or petty by having them. If their boundaries don’t line up with mine, no hard feelings.


Right.

I guess there's another thing that I'm probably going to be in the minority about - but I really worry about STIs. Frankly, I don't even know what I would do at this point in my life if I had to date again - but that would really be on my mind. Just jumping in and having sex with someone would terrify me. Part of the reason that monogamous marriage is such a plus to me is that I don't have to worry about getting an STI. 

Waiting to have full on naked sex with someone seems to be a logical, wise decision - so it completely matters not to me if there are people who think that's laughable and silly. The age group with the fastest growing incidences of STIs is seniors. There are STIs that condoms don't protect against - and, outrageously, there are people out there in the world who think you can't get STIs from oral sex.

Cold-water sobering as that information is, it's what smart singles have on their minds. It's not being a prude or some arbitrary rule for the sake of a rule - it's about figuring out if you can trust a person and truly know their history and behavior. No encounter is worth an STI.


----------



## Faithful Wife

happiness27 said:


> Right.
> 
> I guess there's another thing that I'm probably going to be in the minority about - but I really worry about STIs. Frankly, I don't even know what I would do at this point in my life if I had to date again - but that would really be on my mind. Just jumping in and having sex with someone would terrify me. Part of the reason that monogamous marriage is such a plus to me is that I don't have to worry about getting an STI.
> 
> Waiting to have full on naked sex with someone seems to be a logical, wise decision - so it completely matters not to me if there are people who think that's laughable and silly. The age group with the fastest growing incidences of STIs is seniors. There are STIs that condoms don't protect against - and, outrageously, there are people out there in the world who think you can't get STIs from oral sex.
> 
> Cold-water sobering as that information is, it's what smart singles have on their minds. It's not being a prude or some arbitrary rule for the sake of a rule - it's about figuring out if you can trust a person and truly know their history and behavior. No encounter is worth an STI.


But some men are convinced that any time a woman doesn’t want to have sex in any particular moment, she is playing games with him, she is playing hard to get, she is wanting him to push her boundaries because she’s so sexually stunted that she can’t actually say what she wants, you have to not listen to their words instead watch their actions (which is code for “see, she is turned on, she wants it but is just playing coy”), and so forth.

For men who feel this way, is obvious they haven’t been with women who actually want to have sex with them. If they still think that adult women play hard to get because they are just wanting to control the man....all I can say is that if that’s your experience with women, then it has to do with the fact that you’re trying to have sex with someone who doesn’t want to have sex with you, which most likely is because you don’t turn her on.

Now why would you twist yourself into knots just to convince this woman to say yes after she has said no? Oh right, because you can’t accept the truth that you simply don’t turn her on, and instead you tell yourself “she want me to push her boundaries!” 

No matter what we do, men will constantly whine about how we can actually choose who we want to have sex with. It just really bugs a lot of them.

Not all, some men are glad we only have sex with them because we are turned on by them. The ones who have never experienced this are the ones who think women are being “coy”, because they can’t face the truth that he just doesn’t turn her on.


----------



## happiness27

Faithful Wife said:


> But some men are convinced that any time a woman doesn’t want to have sex in any particular moment, she is playing games with him, she is playing hard to get, she is wanting him to push her boundaries because she’s so sexually stunted that she can’t actually say what she wants, you have to not listen to their words instead watch their actions (which is code for “see, she is turned on, she wants it but is just playing coy”), and so forth.
> 
> For men who feel this way, is obvious they haven’t been with women who actually want to have sex with them. If they still think that adult women play hard to get because they are just wanting to control the man....all I can say is that if that’s your experience with women, then it has to do with the fact that you’re trying to have sex with someone who doesn’t want to have sex with you, which most likely is because you don’t turn her on.
> 
> Now why would you twist yourself into knots just to convince this woman to say yes after she has said no? Oh right, because you can’t accept the truth that you simply don’t turn her on, and instead you tell yourself “she want me to push her boundaries!”
> 
> No matter what we do, men will constantly whine about how we can actually choose who we want to have sex with. It just really bugs a lot of them.
> 
> Not all, some men are glad we only have sex with them because we are turned on by them. The ones who have never experienced this are the ones who think women are being “coy”, because they can’t face the truth that he just doesn’t turn her on.


There's probably some truth to what you've posted - however, not being turned on by a guy wouldn't always be a reason to not have sex with him. I probably wouldn't even give a guy a second date if I wasn't sexually attracted to him. That wouldn't mean there's something wrong with him inherently - we just wouldn't be a match.

I really do concern myself with safety, trust, health, etc. when considering a partner. I've heard that I'm called a "serial monogamist" - but that's just the way it is. There are people walking around out there with undiagnosed STIs of all different types and the absolute best way to avoid them is to not have sex with infected individuals. So, I would be looking for a partner who is clean - as unsexy as this may be. Damn those anatomy and physiology classes!

When I first met my husband, he was getting out of a longterm marriage and had been separated for six months - and by the time we first had a date, it was nearly a year he was out of that relationship. He had been monogamous. That was important to me. 

But I didn't know any of this completely until we had gotten to know each other over time. Believe me, I wanted to have sex and wanted to have sex with him in particular and he with me as well. Sometimes that waiting was excruciating. We devoured each other the first time we had sex.

So, it wasn't that I wasn't attracted to him. I don't know if the percentages of people with my mindset are just very small or what these days - but a few of us are very sexual, just not willing to take a health risk for a few seconds of bliss. Like I said, condoms only protect to a certain extent...fluids leak around condoms and fluids get exchanged in any sexual encounter so, to me, knowing one's partner and understanding that monogamy is the safest form of sex, plays a role for some people. A 90 day rule may be something that some people laugh at but it's actually smart and logical.


----------



## Faithful Wife

happiness27 said:


> There's probably some truth to what you've posted - however, not being turned on by a guy wouldn't always be a reason to not have sex with him. I probably wouldn't even give a guy a second date if I wasn't sexually attracted to him. That wouldn't mean there's something wrong with him inherently - we just wouldn't be a match.
> 
> I really do concern myself with safety, trust, health, etc. when considering a partner. I've heard that I'm called a "serial monogamist" - but that's just the way it is. There are people walking around out there with undiagnosed STIs of all different types and the absolute best way to avoid them is to not have sex with infected individuals. So, I would be looking for a partner who is clean - as unsexy as this may be. Damn those anatomy and physiology classes!
> 
> When I first met my husband, he was getting out of a longterm marriage and had been separated for six months - and by the time we first had a date, it was nearly a year he was out of that relationship. He had been monogamous. That was important to me.
> 
> But I didn't know any of this completely until we had gotten to know each other over time. Believe me, I wanted to have sex and wanted to have sex with him in particular and he with me as well. Sometimes that waiting was excruciating. We devoured each other the first time we had sex.
> 
> So, it wasn't that I wasn't attracted to him. I don't know if the percentages of people with my mindset are just very small or what these days - but a few of us are very sexual, just not willing to take a health risk. Like I said, condoms only protect to a certain extent...fluids leak around condoms and fluids get exchanged in any sexual encounter so, to me, knowing one's partner and understanding that monogamy is the safest form of sex, plays a role for some people. A 90 day rule may be something that some people laugh at but it's actually smart and logical.


There are lots of reasons to wait to have sex with a new person. Yours is one of them. However, according to some men (here) this means you are just playing hard to get and means you want him to try harder.

These guys honestly have no clue what being in an adult sexual relationship is like. They are just used to having to beg and battle a woman to “get sex out of her”.

So they can’t relate to a woman like us. That’s why any guy who thinks I need to be pressured or guilted into sex is an auto next. Thankfully that doesn’t happen much between mature adults who know what great partnered sex is.


----------



## uhtred

Thread has moved quickly, but on the original post:

I think there are quite a few men who treat women very well. The problem is that by the time you are in your 50s, most of them are in permanent relationships. A good, loving, hard-working, dependable man is likely to be married, and fairly likely to stay that way. Same for women.

I'm in this age group and know some men like this. I also know one who just got divorced - and he was a useless, selfish lump.


----------



## VladDracul

Faithful Wife said:


> But some men are convinced that any time a woman doesn’t want to have sex in any particular moment, she is playing games with him, she is playing hard to get, she is wanting him to push her boundaries because she’s so sexually stunted that she can’t actually say what she wants, you have to not listen to their words instead watch their actions (which is code for “see, she is turned on, she wants it but is just playing coy”), and so forth.


If it don't come easy, by Tanya Tucker

I know a man, a good friend of mine;
He spends all his time tryin' to make love work out right.
But the woman he loves, she don't feel the same, no;
I don't know much about love but at least I learned one thing:

If it don't come easy, you better let it go.
'Cause when it don't come easy, there's no natural flow.
Don't make it hard on your heart, you might be better off alone,
If it don't come easy, you better let it go, yeah.


----------



## Faithful Wife

@VladDracul great song, perfect.

To bring this back to the OP, I don’t think the problem is that her guy isn’t that into her. I hope she is re-reading the MV book right now.


----------



## 2ntnuf

Faithful Wife said:


> But some men are convinced that any time a woman doesn’t want to have sex in any particular moment, she is playing games with him, she is playing hard to get, she is wanting him to push her boundaries because she’s so sexually stunted that she can’t actually say what she wants, you have to not listen to their words instead watch their actions (which is code for “see, she is turned on, she wants it but is just playing coy”), and so forth.
> 
> For men who feel this way, is obvious they haven’t been with women who actually want to have sex with them. If they still think that adult women play hard to get because they are just wanting to control the man....all I can say is that if that’s your experience with women, then it has to do with the fact that you’re trying to have sex with someone who doesn’t want to have sex with you, which most likely is because you don’t turn her on.
> 
> Now why would you twist yourself into knots just to convince this woman to say yes after she has said no? Oh right, because you can’t accept the truth that you simply don’t turn her on, and instead you tell yourself “she want me to push her boundaries!”
> 
> No matter what we do, men will constantly whine about how we can actually choose who we want to have sex with. It just really bugs a lot of them.
> 
> *Not all, some men are glad we only have sex with them because we are turned on by them.* The ones who have never experienced this are the ones who think women are being “coy”, because they can’t face the truth that he just doesn’t turn her on.


I was thinking, how can they tell? He can't read her mind and you said not to go with her actions, but with her words. Women, like men, will and do and have had sex for various reasons other than they are turned on by the man they are with. 

If she says no, it's no. NO one wants to go to jail and be on the predator list. Time to move on.


----------



## Faithful Wife

2ntnuf said:


> I was thinking, how can they tell? He can't read her mind and you said not to go with her actions, but with her words. Women, like men, will and do and have had sex for various reasons other than they are turned on by the man they are with.
> 
> If she says no, it's no. NO one wants to go to jail and be on the predator list. Time to move on.


Yes, that is correct. If she says no, the answer is no. Don't try to "read" her. Don't assume she is playing coy. Just say "ok cool" and then decide for yourself as a man where this is headed. Decide for yourself if you think she may say "yes" later and keep dating her, or whatever.

OR....he can simply talk to her and actually accept what she has to say about it. Maybe she is going to not want to have sex with a new guy for 90 days. Maybe he feels "yeah I like this girl, but I definitely have other options and I am not waiting 90 days for sex" so he moves on. He has every right to. There's nothing wrong with him rejecting such a thing. He can do it respectfully, because there's no reason not to be respectful about it. Or maybe after chatting with her a bit more, he learns that after 90 days, she also requires her new lovers to sign a statement saying he will become her sex slave and submit to being chained to the bedboard half the time. Good to know!

For myself, I am giving information to my partner, including words like "yes, more, please keep going, I love it, yes, more" when I like something. It can't be much more obvious.

I personally don't expect men to read minds. I just speak what I need to convey. I like talking to my partner about sex anyway so talking leading up to it is fun. 

Now, if a man is in a position where he does actually think a woman is "playing hard to get" or being coy or "really wants it but doesn't want to say yes because she will feel ****ty"....the guy's best option is to see this for what it is and run. Why he would instead decide he wants to try "talking her into it" is beyond me. But lots of them do.


----------



## 2ntnuf

> Or maybe after chatting with her a bit more, he learns that after 90 days, she also requires her new lovers to sign a statement saying he will become her sex slave and submit to being chained to the bedboard half the time.


Half the time might be a bit much. That can be negotiated. Plus, nothing was said about what types of things he must allow, and nothing says she knows how to do it and doesn't bore him to tears. 

haha figured you'd like that


----------



## Faithful Wife

2ntnuf said:


> Half the time might be a bit much. That can be negotiated. Plus, nothing was said about what types of things he must allow, and nothing says she knows how to do it and doesn't bore him to tears.
> 
> haha figured you'd like that


Absolutely! Plenty of men walk away from women who suck at sex. Why wouldn't they? Why keep going when it sucks at the very beginning? Healthy sexual men know it doesn't get better from there.


----------



## 2ntnuf

Faithful Wife said:


> Absolutely! Plenty of men walk away from women who suck at sex. Why wouldn't they? Why keep going when it sucks at the very beginning? Healthy sexual men know it doesn't get better from there.


Well, not only that, but when you talk about being tied up, the person is truly helpless and could easily be harmed or worse. So, I'd rather have or give bad head where the person can work with me, than to allow a chunk of latex bodice to get lodged in my throat. 
:grin2:


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## Faithful Wife

2ntnuf said:


> Well, not only that, but when you talk about being tied up, the person is truly helpless and could easily be harmed or worse. So, I'd rather have or give bad head where the person can work with me, than to allow a chunk of latex bodice to get lodged in my throat.
> :grin2:


These issue are what signed consent forms are for. >


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## 2ntnuf

Faithful Wife said:


> These issue are what signed consent forms are for. >


Okay, you win.


----------



## BluesPower

Faithful Wife said:


> Yes, that is correct. If she says no, the answer is no. Don't try to "read" her. Don't assume she is playing coy. Just say "ok cool" and then decide for yourself as a man where this is headed. Decide for yourself if you think she may say "yes" later and keep dating her, or whatever.
> 
> OR....he can simply talk to her and actually accept what she has to say about it. Maybe she is going to not want to have sex with a new guy for 90 days. Maybe he feels "yeah I like this girl, but I definitely have other options and I am not waiting 90 days for sex" so he moves on. He has every right to. There's nothing wrong with him rejecting such a thing. He can do it respectfully, because there's no reason not to be respectful about it. Or maybe after chatting with her a bit more, he learns that after 90 days, she also requires her new lovers to sign a statement saying he will become her sex slave and submit to being chained to the bedboard half the time. Good to know!
> 
> For myself, I am giving information to my partner, including words like "yes, more, please keep going, I love it, yes, more" when I like something. It can't be much more obvious.
> 
> I personally don't expect men to read minds. I just speak what I need to convey. I like talking to my partner about sex anyway so talking leading up to it is fun.
> 
> Now, if a man is in a position where he does actually think a woman is "playing hard to get" or being coy or "really wants it but doesn't want to say yes because she will feel ****ty"....the guy's best option is to see this for what it is and run. Why he would instead decide he wants to try "talking her into it" is beyond me. But lots of them do.


Now, I swore that I was going to leave this alone, but I just cannot. 

So earlier, you were dogging me a little, and yes you were, because I did not want to accept some arbitrary time limit. 

And, you and a couple of the other girls did not like that, ok. That may make you feel uncomfortable. 

But in the particular situation, she is the one that changed her mind, I did not try and convince her to brake her rules. I said, Ok call me in 90 days if you want to see me again, that is all. 

In fact I don't, and have never pressured any woman for sex, it is not my thing. If it is not mutual, I am not interested. 

Now, if her stating a boundary, and me stating a boundary is somehow, pressuring her, the golly gee, I don't get it. 

If she did not want to be with me, she did not have to, I put no gun to her head, I simply stated my boundary and SHE decided that being with me meant more than her boundary. 

But somehow, I am a bad guy... you are going to have to clarify that for me. 

And the entire concept of "Getting" sex from a woman is repugnant to me, as I have stated before. 

It may be semantics to some but that makes a difference to me, I don't get sex from a woman, I have sex with woman that want to have sex with me. 

Now, if that is "ok next for you" I have no problem with that. And if I am some type of Neanderthal for not wanting to wait for sex for 90 days, well then I am a cave man. 

And, the fact that I don't call woman back that I dated and am no longer interested in, I am somehow bragging, well... OK. 

I see doing that as kind of weak, if we did not work out or we did not dig each other, why would I go fishing months later. I don't even see a reason to do that... 

So I guess that FW and some others will just have to agree to disagree, and I personally cool with that...


----------



## Faithful Wife

BluesPower said:


> That may make you feel uncomfortable.


You just really don't know me. You are misinterpreting why I have a problem with some of the things you write. 

I'm a very sexual woman. Have you somehow concluded that I am a bit uptight about sex or something? Again, you just don't know me. 

There is nothing unusual about you or ANYONE wanting sex on an early date or the first date. What's the big deal?

Also, I think it is cool that your girlfriend called you.

But to come here and mock her rule as if anyone who does have that rule is just playing games or whatever, that is not a sexually self aware person. Sorry, it just isn't.

If you think you can determine what other people's boundaries are and what their reasons for them are, and yet what you are saying is the opposite of the stated boundary, then you aren't being GGG, in any way shape or form.

There's no healthy reason to mock other people's boundaries or try to infer that they have reasons for these boundaries that are not their stated reasons.

It could very well be true that they are feeding you some line of crap, or that they "secretly" hope you will push past their boundaries. But if that is the case, then your date isn't being GGG either. If anyone - male or female - is playing some kind of game with you for their own reasons, you should immediately realize this person is not a safe bet to have sex with anyway. Why would any self aware guy not just accept a boundary for what it is, or determine for himself that she is just full of ****?

To claim "I don't wait for arbitrary timelines" is saying that you think women's reasons for it are arbitrary. It says you can't tell the difference between an arbitrary reason (which clearly points to her being a risk if you have sex with her, as she is playing games), and a non-arbitrary reason (seems you don't believe there could be a valid reason). 

Sexually self aware adults respect boundaries, and shy away from people who are playing games. It is easy to tell the difference. But when we shy away from a game player, there's no need to go around spouting about it and making declarations of how we "won't accept this or that!" Anyone who is truly in control of their own sex life doesn't have to make proclamations like that.


----------



## MattMatt

*Moderator notice:-*

Please folks! No threadjacks, OK?


----------



## As'laDain

AVR1962 said:


> My single lady friends went out recently.....subject always turns to dating and men at some point in the night. All of us are over 50. Listening to their dating experiences I realize we all have pretty much dealt with the same type of issues. It is easy to see thru the men that tell you they love you on the second date, push for the physical, ask you to go away for the weekend but don't call to talk on the phone.....and easy to say good-bye in these situations. What I am really tired of is the men who chase, want to be the "winner" of that chase and as long as you ignore. You let them in, and then they hold out the stop hand. Also tired of the men who have to have everything their way.....I work a 40 hour week, mostly afternoons into evening so I get off late and I find men want me to try to work around their schedule....really? It would be nice to get off at 8 pm and have a gentleman standing there with a glass of wine in hand but instead I hear how tired THEY are after their week and how they just need a day to re-coop, yet I am expected to go out of an evening work days....what am I missing here?
> 
> I have several male friends who are just friends, I know what I like and I know what I am looking for and I tend to make male friends because I am not interested in anything more from these men....again, seems to be that chase thing that men eat up.....I don't want them so they want me. I have heard my male friends' dating experiences too....funny how many of them tell me they just wanted sex and then they ended up liking the girl and got dumped or they couldn't get rid of her after sleeping with them. Seems age-old but women want love and men want sex. If a couple actually reach a point of having a relationship So many (men and women) are so wounded that we no longer let people get close. My most recent relationship was with a man who was Hot then Cold and it just kept up and had me so confused and there was no progression. What I realized is he could only get so close, it was his way to feel love without getting hurt. I am starting to feel that "love" is an illusion.
> 
> My question, probably more so for the older men here.....what is it that keeps you interested in that one special person in your life?


Im not an older man. Im only 32. But, i have been married for over a decade. If you wanted to keep me interested, just don't bore me. Simple as that.


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## john117

Marc878 said:


> I can only speak from a mans perspective but when you learn to live alone (there are great benefits) there is no burning desire to change that when you get into later years. Companionship is maybe a want but not a need.


Advantage: cat.


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## AVR1962

I ordered the book and look forward to reading it. 

One big issue I have is trust. My first husband was unfaithful many times and second husband rarely came to me for sex (even dating) yet he'd get these infatuations with women and start talking to them, trying to reel them in with his humor and before long he was buying them chocolates to replace the candies he ate out of their candy dish (at work) and asking them to lunch. Meanwhile at home I was the one initiating sex. Just this week I let go of a male friend on social media because he has been sending messages with interest in me and I know he has a girlfriend. Two years ago, I reconnected with a childhood girlfriend on social media....she had just remarried. Her husband sent me a friend request and soon he was texting me telling me how beautiful I am and that he wasn't happy with my friend. For years my (now) ex-husband's brother in-law made contact with me telling me he had been so jealous of my ex to be with me and how he thought I was so sweet and on and on. I set boundaries, thanked him and let him know I valued his friendship. This man was married. He (he's about 60) must have been searching for beautiful women on social media as his friends' list was full of beautiful busty ladies that I was pretty sure he wasn't "friends" with. Eventually he did leave his wife.

I know I mentioned my trust issues before and the man I am dating has heard all of this and I have told him this is the one thing I am going to have trouble hurdling. Someone on here mentioned to me that after being hurt like this it is like being robbed at the ATM....you don't want to go back to the ATM but with time is gets easier. I have really tried not to lump all men into what I have experienced already. So for me it is easier not to get too close, if that makes sense. When men start pushing me, I am gone.

Has anyone read "9 Excuses You'll Hear From Cheating Men," an online article by Dr Solomon? Basically it says men get bored with the spouse/partner and men want to try new lips, touch new body parts and have new sexual experiences. The article indicates this is human nature for men and those who do not act upon these desires still have the desire. So where do men draw the line of commitment?


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## 269370

happiness27 said:


> There's probably some truth to what you've posted - however, not being turned on by a guy wouldn't always be a reason to not have sex with him. I probably wouldn't even give a guy a second date if I wasn't sexually attracted to him. That wouldn't mean there's something wrong with him inherently - we just wouldn't be a match.
> 
> I really do concern myself with safety, trust, health, etc. when considering a partner. I've heard that I'm called a "serial monogamist" - but that's just the way it is. There are people walking around out there with undiagnosed STIs of all different types and the absolute best way to avoid them is to not have sex with infected individuals. So, I would be looking for a partner who is clean - as unsexy as this may be. Damn those anatomy and physiology classes!
> 
> When I first met my husband, he was getting out of a longterm marriage and had been separated for six months - and by the time we first had a date, it was nearly a year he was out of that relationship. He had been monogamous. That was important to me.
> 
> But I didn't know any of this completely until we had gotten to know each other over time. Believe me, I wanted to have sex and wanted to have sex with him in particular and he with me as well. Sometimes that waiting was excruciating. We devoured each other the first time we had sex.
> 
> So, it wasn't that I wasn't attracted to him. I don't know if the percentages of people with my mindset are just very small or what these days - but a few of us are very sexual, just not willing to take a health risk for a few seconds of bliss. Like I said, condoms only protect to a certain extent...fluids leak around condoms and fluids get exchanged in any sexual encounter so, to me, knowing one's partner and understanding that monogamy is the safest form of sex, plays a role for some people. A 90 day rule may be something that some people laugh at but it's actually smart and logical.



There should be a distinction: are we talking about new partners or mature marriages here?

I personally did always prefer to ‘chase & hunt’ down women I liked. Maybe it’s in my dna (can do nothing about it) but having women spread their legs for me without having to put any work: I found this always very confusing and kind of off putting (no offence to anyone who’s into it though; it was just my preference).

As far as mature marriages: my wife still likes me to take & ‘conquer’ her, sexually. She doesn’t do it in a ‘sh1t testy’ or ‘mind ****ing’ way (usually)...She just likes consensual non consent stuff, on a wild occasion (which is quite often).
She’s turned on by it. Hugely. I understand other women here possibly can’t relate to that, that’s fine and they have their own preferences (which I don’t judge).

There’s a big difference between this and using sex as a ‘currency’ or doing it because they are unattracted (?) to their partner.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## x598

Here is my take on dating in our "mature" years.

we all want that crazy in-love feeling....ya'know the one that means all you can think about is that other person and what they are doing and so forth.

the problem is.....we arent young and naïve anymore.....think about it.....when you were in your teens and 20's......dating was all about having fun and we saw everything through rose colored glasses. the other person had plenty of faults but we either ignored them, didn't recognize them, or we pretended we could live with them.

Now we are older and wiser (most of us anyway :laugh: ) and have the clarity of past experiences and failures and can spot problems a mile away. How many of you have friends dating and head over heels in love and yet you look at them and go "no way they are going to make it"...…..

The point is.....the wisdom that has been gained does make it much tougher to find a really compatible person.....and don't even throw in the responsibilities and baggage that comes within your life that wasn't an issue when you were young.

I think the expectations of a "golden sunset" and meeting someone at this point, where all the pieces just fit perfectly together, everything flows like wine....well....are just totally unrealistic.

if you want to find that special person you may need to decrease your expectations a tad.


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## BluesPower

x598 said:


> Here is my take on dating in our "mature" years.
> 
> we all want that crazy in-love feeling....ya'know the one that means all you can think about is that other person and what they are doing and so forth.
> 
> the problem is.....we arent young and naïve anymore.....think about it.....when you were in your teens and 20's......dating was all about having fun and we saw everything through rose colored glasses. the other person had plenty of faults but we either ignored them, didn't recognize them, or we pretended we could live with them.
> 
> Now we are older and wiser (most of us anyway :laugh: ) and have the clarity of past experiences and failures and can spot problems a mile away. How many of you have friends dating and head over heels in love and yet you look at them and go "no way they are going to make it"...…..
> 
> The point is.....the wisdom that has been gained does make it much tougher to find a really compatible person.....and don't even throw in the responsibilities and baggage that comes within your life that wasn't an issue when you were young.
> 
> I think the expectations of a "golden sunset" and meeting someone at this point, where all the pieces just fit perfectly together, everything flows like wine....well....are just totally unrealistic.
> 
> if you want to find that special person you may need to decrease your expectations a tad.


I agree with a lot of what you wrote her, I really do. 

Now, maybe I am one of the lucky ones, and that would be a first for me but maybe...

However, at 54, unless things go south which I do not expect, I honestly believe that I have met the one, the love of my life, or however anyone want to put it. 

Now, neither of us are perfect, but the overall relationship, is about as perfect as it gets. And for me, and her, we tend to think that our R is some type of karmatic gift, that we are both receiving because of the **** that we have both been through in our lives.

To many, that may sound like hogwash, which is cool, but it is real for us. 

Now where the wisdom seems to come in is that if we have an issue, even one that is hard to solve, our experience in life seems to allow us to communicate better, not perfect yet, but pretty well. 

So for me, you know, I have loved more than my share of women, and some of them were really great, but it kind of did not work out for different reasons. If it had of, whatever the issue was, I think I might have had really long relationships with some of those women. 

However, this R, is something unlike I have ever been a part of. 

So short of a zombie apocalypse, I think we will be together until we die, at least I hope that is a substantial amount of time. 

Now, is my think a fluke, or can/does it happen to others???


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## x598

BluesPower said:


> I agree with a lot of what you wrote her, I really do.
> 
> Now, maybe I am one of the lucky ones, and that would be a first for me but maybe...
> 
> However, at 54, unless things go south which I do not expect, I honestly believe that I have met the one, the love of my life, or however anyone want to put it.
> 
> Now, neither of us are perfect, but the overall relationship, is about as perfect as it gets. And for me, and her, we tend to think that our R is some type of karmatic gift, that we are both receiving because of the **** that we have both been through in our lives.
> 
> To many, that may sound like hogwash, which is cool, but it is real for us.
> 
> Now where the wisdom seems to come in is that if we have an issue, even one that is hard to solve, our experience in life seems to allow us to communicate better, not perfect yet, but pretty well.
> 
> So for me, you know, I have loved more than my share of women, and some of them were really great, but it kind of did not work out for different reasons. If it had of, whatever the issue was, I think I might have had really long relationships with some of those women.
> 
> However, this R, is something unlike I have ever been a part of.
> 
> So short of a zombie apocalypse, I think we will be together until we die, at least I hope that is a substantial amount of time.
> 
> Now, is my think a fluke, or can/does it happen to others???


time will tell. I would add one thing you have going for you....being "old" also means being set in your ways. But that can be a good thing too......if there are no big changes for either of you and you like the "package" each has to offer. How many marriages start out younger.....only to end when a few years down the road when one persons career advances or the other grows into this "new" person that other had no idea was coming? seems pretty common to me.


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## BluesPower

x598 said:


> time will tell. I would add one thing you have going for you....being "old" also means being set in your ways. But that can be a good thing too......if there are no big changes for either of you and you like the "package" each has to offer. How many marriages start out younger.....only to end when a few years down the road when one persons career advances or the other grows into this "new" person that other had no idea was coming? seems pretty common to me.


True, time will tell. I think the part about being set in our ways is true and in a why not true...

For me, the way that being set in my ways comes out, besides my general wonderfulness, is that from the start, I insisted on complete honesty. If there is an issue, I want it to be dealt with in a positive way, but no rug sweeping or left over resentment. 

I guess that I stress communication at every level. We do really well with that and it gets better as we go along. 

But, some of the other things that you mention, yeah, at this age, we don't really have those issues, and frankly, that part is great. 

We both have grandkids that we babysit from time to time, sometimes together and sometimes babysitting apart if one of us has something to do. 

But a lot of the pressures that happen in young relationships are not an issue for us. So, it is OK to devote time to us, and it really is refreshing...


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## BarbedFenceRider

Or how about a person who started in family life "later" in the game. As for me, I am easily the oldest gentleman in my school district picking up the kids. lol
Seriously, all the moms and dads are in the early to mid 20s. Her I sit at 44. My daughter's teacher welcomed me to her classroom as my kid's "grandfather". No ish. THAT Really happened. 

So for the relationship thing that scares the hell out of me. Is women my age or older are already empty nesters with all THAT entails. And I am still going to school theater and extracurricular sports dates. Lots of the women MY age kind of look away at this. Kinda like, "no thanks, already did that years ago." look. So if in 5 years and my marriage is NOT safe, I am seriously looking at a very secluded life. All my eggs were in one basket. The family basket. Being respectably good looking and charming will only get one so far.

Not to mention the "desperate" daters.....Don't get me started on that! I have a few buddies that went down that road and seriously regretted it.


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## 269370

AVR1962 said:


> Has anyone read "9 Excuses You'll Hear From Cheating Men," an online article by Dr Solomon? Basically it says men get bored with the spouse/partner and men want to try new lips, touch new body parts and have new sexual experiences. The article indicates this is human nature for men and those who do not act upon these desires still have the desire. So where do men draw the line of commitment?



As a ‘man’, I personally don’t identify with this at all. Happy to keep touching the same body parts that I always liked touching...
Who is this Dr Salomon? Caligula?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

AVR1962 said:


> Has anyone read "9 Excuses You'll Hear From Cheating Men," an online article by Dr Solomon? Basically it says men get bored with the spouse/partner and men want to try new lips, touch new body parts and have new sexual experiences. The article indicates this is human nature for men and those who do not act upon these desires still have the desire. So where do men draw the line of commitment?


Nope. Don't get it. In fact, quite the opposite; the longer I'm married, the more the idea of my lips touching lips other than my wife's actually creeps me out. It may be human nature for men in general, but I'm sure I'm not the only exception to the rule.


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## jlg07

"Basically it says men get bored with the spouse/partner and men want to try new lips, touch new body parts and have new sexual experiences. The article indicates this is human nature for men and those who do not act upon these desires still have the desire. So where do men draw the line of commitment?"

Yeah I throw the BS flag on this one. Married 30 years and I am NOT looking at trading for new lips or any other part.
It is up to US to make sure that we don't get bored in our relationship (and not just sexually...)


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## bkyln309

BarbedFenceRider said:


> Or how about a person who started in family life "later" in the game. As for me, I am easily the oldest gentleman in my school district picking up the kids. lol
> Seriously, all the moms and dads are in the early to mid 20s. Her I sit at 44. My daughter's teacher welcomed me to her classroom as my kid's "grandfather". No ish. THAT Really happened.
> 
> So for the relationship thing that scares the hell out of me. Is women my age or older are already empty nesters with all THAT entails. And I am still going to school theater and extracurricular sports dates. Lots of the women MY age kind of look away at this. Kinda like, "no thanks, already did that years ago." look. So if in 5 years and my marriage is NOT safe, I am seriously looking at a very secluded life. All my eggs were in one basket. The family basket. Being respectably good looking and charming will only get one so far.
> 
> Not to mention the "desperate" daters.....Don't get me started on that! I have a few buddies that went down that road and seriously regretted it.


Im in the same boat. Im in my late 40s and have middle school children. I tend to date older than me but what man in his 50s is going to want to give up his freedom and live with a house with kids?


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## BluesPower

bkyln309 said:


> Im in the same boat. Im in my late 40s and have middle school children. I tend to date older than me but what man in his 50s is going to want to give up his freedom and live with a house with kids?


You know, if the men that you have dated think this way, don't date them. 

I was in my 50 and dated a younger mother, she had a 2YO and a 12YO. It did not work out, but it was not because of the kids. I loved those kids. 

If it had worked out, and she really was a sweet girl, I would have raised the kids as my own. 

So, if you are seeing that from someone, then move on...


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## AVR1962

Thank you to those who suggested reading "Mars and Venus on a Date," just got my book and already I am seeing things in a different light.


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## Faithful Wife

AVR1962 said:


> Thank you to those who suggested reading "Mars and Venus on a Date," just got my book and already I am seeing things in a different light.


I’m so glad! That book is like a dating bible, I love it. 

Please come give us an update sometime.


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## personofinterest

BarbedFenceRider said:


> Or how about a person who started in family life "later" in the game. As for me, I am easily the oldest gentleman in my school district picking up the kids. lol
> Seriously, all the moms and dads are in the early to mid 20s. Her I sit at 44. My daughter's teacher welcomed me to her classroom as my kid's "grandfather". No ish. THAT Really happened.
> 
> So for the relationship thing that scares the hell out of me. Is women my age or older are already empty nesters with all THAT entails. And I am still going to school theater and extracurricular sports dates. Lots of the women MY age kind of look away at this. Kinda like, "no thanks, already did that years ago." look. So if in 5 years and my marriage is NOT safe, I am seriously looking at a very secluded life. All my eggs were in one basket. The family basket. Being respectably good looking and charming will only get one so far.
> 
> Not to mention the "desperate" daters.....Don't get me started on that! I have a few buddies that went down that road and seriously regretted it.


My hubby is 51 with a 12 year old. My kids are in their 20's. It works great for us. I'm a former schoolteacher, so I LOVE kids. My step son still thinks my jokes are funny, and he still gives hugs


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## AVR1962

"There are basically four kinds of chemistry between dating partners: Physical, emotional, mental and spiritual. Physical chemistry generates desire. Emotional chemistry generates affection. mental chemistry creates interest. Spiritual chemistry creates love. A soul mate includes all four." a quote from Mars and Venus on a Date. This is the very thing I have been looking for but have found that 90% of the men I have had communication with do nothing to spark my attention and have been quickly weeded out. 

"I was amazed as a counselor to discover a striking pattern. Quite often women who were extremely attractive, who looked like models and movie stars, and in some cases were, would share the same complaint. Their husbands were not sexually attracted to them. I was dumbfounded. I couldn't imagine any available man not being attracted to these women. Yet, it was true. I eventually realized why. These women had been pursued by men who were primarily sexually attracted to them but didn't really get to know them. When a man feels sexual chemistry, quite often he "thinks" he knows a woman; he feels interested in her, he likes her, he even thinks he loves her. The real test is whether he still likes and loves her after he gets to know her." Another quote from the book and something I have said many times over and this makes perfect sense to me. I have seen so many men with gorgeous wives, perfect body, and the men are crazy busy checking out every woman in the room.

"When physical chemistry is not backed up by chemistry in the mind, heart, and soul, then it cannot last or grow in time. Once the pleasures and passions of the body are experienced without corresponding passions of the mind, heart and soul, the physical chemistry will dissipate. Physical attraction can be sustained only when it springs from chemistry of the mind, heart and soul." I sure hear this one!!! Seems the men I have been close to can only allow so much closeness. It is like they are waving me in but once I get so close then they are holding out the stop hand so these connections are not fully made. I have questioned what I have seen and just wonder how many men have wounds so deep that they cannot allow themselves to be close.


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## Faithful Wife

AVR1962 said:


> "There are basically four kinds of chemistry between dating partners: Physical, emotional, mental and spiritual. Physical chemistry generates desire. Emotional chemistry generates affection. mental chemistry creates interest. Spiritual chemistry creates love. A soul mate includes all four." a quote from Mars and Venus on a Date. This is the very thing I have been looking for but have found that 90% of the men I have had communication with do nothing to spark my attention and have been quickly weeded out.
> 
> "I was amazed as a counselor to discover a striking pattern. Quite often women who were extremely attractive, who looked like models and movie stars, and in some cases were, would share the same complaint. Their husbands were not sexually attracted to them. I was dumbfounded. I couldn't imagine any available man not being attracted to these women. Yet, it was true. I eventually realized why. These women had been pursued by men who were primarily sexually attracted to them but didn't really get to know them. When a man feels sexual chemistry, quite often he "thinks" he knows a woman; he feels interested in her, he likes her, he even thinks he loves her. The real test is whether he still likes and loves her after he gets to know her." Another quote from the book and something I have said many times over and this makes perfect sense to me. I have seen so many men with gorgeous wives, perfect body, and the men are crazy busy checking out every woman in the room.
> 
> "When physical chemistry is not backed up by chemistry in the mind, heart, and soul, then it cannot last or grow in time. Once the pleasures and passions of the body are experienced without corresponding passions of the mind, heart and soul, the physical chemistry will dissipate. Physical attraction can be sustained only when it springs from chemistry of the mind, heart and soul." I sure hear this one!!! Seems the men I have been close to can only allow so much closeness. It is like they are waving me in but once I get so close then they are holding out the stop hand so these connections are not fully made. I have questioned what I have seen and just wonder *how many men have wounds so deep that they cannot allow themselves to be close*.


Keep reading.

It is not because they can't allow themselves to be close, it is because men are extremely autonomous by nature and they do not quickly and easily change that nature. So when they feel emotional intimacy, it may be a good thing and they love it, but they will automatically pull away again to establish their autonomy, which has nothing to do with us. It is not because they can't handle the intimacy, it is because they naturally prefer autonomy.

Read about the rubber band theory, and then read it 5 more times. It takes awhile to really get it.

Also about why men talk so much about themselves on early dates.


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## BluesPower

Faithful Wife said:


> Keep reading.
> 
> It is not because they can't allow themselves to be close, it is because men are extremely autonomous by nature and they do not quickly and easily change that nature. So when they feel emotional intimacy, it may be a good thing and they love it, but they will automatically pull away again to establish their autonomy, which has nothing to do with us. It is not because they can't handle the intimacy, it is because they naturally prefer autonomy.
> 
> Read about the rubber band theory, and then read it 5 more times. It takes awhile to really get it.
> 
> Also about why men talk so much about themselves on early dates.


Not to TJ, but there is another reason as well. 

It is on your Other Two Empathy threads...

Also, a smart man NEVER talks about himself on early dates unless she asks, and really not more than you have to. You want her to talk about herself because you want to know her, dare I say even try to understand her, and at the same time, you are on the lookout for CRAZY...


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## Faithful Wife

BluesPower said:


> Not to TJ, but there is another reason as well.
> 
> It is on your Other Two Empathy threads...
> 
> Also, a smart man NEVER talks about himself on early dates unless she asks, and really not more than you have to. You want her to talk about herself because you want to know her, dare I say even try to understand her, and at the same time, you are on the lookout for CRAZY...


Maybe you could also read the book and give your thoughts about it.


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## BluesPower

Faithful Wife said:


> Maybe you could also read the book and give your thoughts about it.


I have, but see, I get that we are different. I also get that my experience tells me, as a man to never, ever, ever, be vulnerable, ever. 

I know it is too macho, but I swear, every time I have let myself be that way, it was not good. 

Women can chase me, love me, hate me, whatever, I don't care, at this point I just can't and I won't. 

Maybe that will change one day, but it has to be a woman that is super strong to understand that a man like me, even occasionally, can be weak. 

So far, even current GF, does not get that part of me, and I suspect she never will...


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## Faithful Wife

BluesPower said:


> I have, but see, I get that we are different. I also get that my experience tells me, as a man to never, ever, ever, be vulnerable, ever.
> 
> I know it is too macho, but I swear, every time I have let myself be that way, it was not good.
> 
> Women can chase me, love me, hate me, whatever, I don't care, at this point I just can't and I won't.
> 
> Maybe that will change one day, but it has to be a woman that is super strong to understand that a man like me, even occasionally, can be weak.
> 
> So far, even current GF, does not get that part of me, and I suspect she never will...


Which book have you read?


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## AVR1962

BluesPower said:


> Not to TJ, but there is another reason as well.
> 
> It is on your Other Two Empathy threads...
> 
> Also, a smart man NEVER talks about himself on early dates unless she asks, and really not more than you have to. You want her to talk about herself because you want to know her, dare I say even try to understand her, and at the same time, you are on the lookout for CRAZY...


I have found men love to talk about themselves. I have learned alot about various men's careers, too much info on exes, on & on about their daughters, various relationships they have been in. Met some real interesting men in the past 2 years. A widower who was a therapist (my age), wife had brain cancer and passed 5-6 years prior....he and I had many very good conversations. he knew he wasn't ready to move fwd with his life in a serious relationship and was upfront about it. These kind of situations are nice because it takes the awkwardness off the plate and you can get to know someone without there being a question of what it is. He was a therapist but I sure heard alot from him too!!


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## Faithful Wife

AVR1962 said:


> I have found men love to talk about themselves. I have learned alot about various men's careers, too much info on exes, on & on about their daughters, various relationships they have been in. Met some real interesting men in the past 2 years. A widower who was a therapist (my age), wife had brain cancer and passed 5-6 years prior....he and I had many very good conversations. he knew he wasn't ready to move fwd with his life in a serious relationship and was upfront about it. These kind of situations are nice because it takes the awkwardness off the plate and you can get to know someone without there being a question of what it is. He was a therapist but I sure heard alot from him too!!


There is a section in the book, I don't recall which chapter but I think in one of the earlier ones, where he writes specifically about why men talk about themselves so much on early dates. It was a huge light bulb moment for me. At the time I read it, I met my ex - h shortly afterwards and I asked him about it and he said yeah...for sure, he agreed with the author. Did you get to that part? It made so much sense. He also talked about how men don't realize they are doing this, and that when men talk to each other in groups they do it much differently than women do, so they really don't realize that the way they do it, to us, looks like they are full of themselves.


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## 269370

BluesPower said:


> I have, but see, I get that we are different. I also get that my experience tells me, as a man to never, ever, ever, be vulnerable, ever.
> 
> 
> 
> I know it is too macho, but I swear, every time I have let myself be that way, it was not good.
> 
> 
> 
> Women can chase me, love me, hate me, whatever, I don't care, at this point I just can't and I won't.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe that will change one day, but it has to be a woman that is super strong to understand that a man like me, even occasionally, can be weak.
> 
> 
> 
> So far, even current GF, does not get that part of me, and I suspect she never will...



Some women actually exist out there, with whom you can allow yourself to be vulnerable. Ask me how I know. And I usually trust no one.
That said, maybe you just need time. It takes a VERY long time to get to that place. But the journey is totally worth it. (Wow, I’m so corny today. Did I say corny? I meant horny).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## AVR1962

Faithful Wife said:


> There is a section in the book, I don't recall which chapter but I think in one of the earlier ones, where he writes specifically about why men talk about themselves so much on early dates. It was a huge light bulb moment for me. At the time I read it, I met my ex - h shortly afterwards and I asked him about it and he said yeah...for sure, he agreed with the author. Did you get to that part? It made so much sense. He also talked about how men don't realize they are doing this, and that when men talk to each other in groups they do it much differently than women do, so they really don't realize that the way they do it, to us, looks like they are full of themselves.


Yes, it is in Chapter 2, if I am not mistaken. I actually enjoy a chatty man so this is not an issue. I have a hard time when it comes to bragging and that will turn me off in a heart-beat. When a man talks about his career I find it interesting as I get to learn about whatever it is that they do. I also enjoy hearing how they were raised and what their home life was like, the cars they drove and what sport they played. What I don't like is if he starts talking about his $2000 suit and everything that comes out of his mouth is about material things.


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## AVR1962

BluesPower said:


> I have, but see, I get that we are different. I also get that my experience tells me, as a man to never, ever, ever, be vulnerable, ever.
> 
> I know it is too macho, but I swear, every time I have let myself be that way, it was not good.
> 
> Women can chase me, love me, hate me, whatever, I don't care, at this point I just can't and I won't.
> 
> Maybe that will change one day, but it has to be a woman that is super strong to understand that a man like me, even occasionally, can be weak.
> 
> So far, even current GF, does not get that part of me, and I suspect she never will...


So how did you let yourself be vulnerable that it turned out bad for you? Curious as I feel the same in certain ways. It seems if I actually care for someone, and it is not often I find a man I actually am attracted to and will continue to see him, I become vulnerable to them and then they distance themselves. I felt it was because they became scared but that is what I am saying when I say it has been hard to get close.


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## Luminous

AVR1962 said:


> So how did you let yourself be vulnerable that it turned out bad for you? Curious as I feel the same in certain ways. It seems if I actually care for someone, and it is not often I find a man I actually am attracted to and will continue to see him, I become vulnerable to them and then they distance themselves. I felt it was because they became scared but that is what I am saying when I say it has been hard to get close.


Women want to care for their MAN. When he shows vulnerability, if the woman is not aware of what is happening, she goes into Mother (nurture) mode (like she would for a child). Nurturing = Reduced sexual attraction.


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## AVR1962

Reading the book "Mars and Venus an a Date" and I feel like I am reading all the mistakes I have made in relationships. The follow is my interpretation rather than a direct quote from the book. 

When we go thru the first phase of love when our hormones have our head in a spin we then go thru a phase of uncertainty and for men that phase means stepping back and asking himself if this is what he wants, if he is right for her, can he make her happy, if he cares about her, does he want to make her happy, does her happiness make him happy, does he miss her when he is away. The male will get to this phase before the woman and her head is still spinning with thoughts of love and the future, thinking she found the man of her dreams, no one has treated her this way, she must be love. When the man steps back she feels it and becomes anxious, she realizes something is not right. She wonders if she did something wrong, is there someone else, does he care, will he call, am I doing the right thing, am I doing enough, what can I do to regain his attention, affection and desire.

Unfortunately all her questions about her behavior lure her in the wrong direction. When a man stop his pursuit women then chase and start asking the man how he feels about her and the relationship which are all mistakes. He needs time, time to think what it is that he is feeling and truly wants from the relationship, or if he wants it at all. This is a time to test whether he really is the right person. Only he can understand what he wants. He might need to date another woman or make contact with other women to clear his thoughts. It might be 2 days, 2 weeks, or 2 months. Women who cannot understand this phase and pressure a man for his time and attention will find themselves alone and confused, hurt by what they don't understand.


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## Ynot

I have not read the book. But the fact that it talks about, based on the quotes, "soul mates" leads me believe it is geared to dreamers who believe in the Disney version of life. From the sounds of it, there is probably some great insights into people who think that way. But, I think the reality is that for some of us, especially those of who have already bought into it and then gotten burned, that advice may not resonate, precisely because it focuses on the idea of "The One".
At this point in my life, I am not looking for "The One" or my "soulmate". I do not think they exist. That does not mean that I do not share of myself or make myself vulnerable to others (in my case women). But because I believe these things to be the fairy tale inventions of Hallmark and Disney, I do so in ways that may not be recognizable to those who do.
I believe that we meet people in our lives, who at this moment we can share some commonalities or compatibility with. I am too honest, with both myself and others, to pretend this moment will last forever. Maybe some want to believe that, but I simply do not. 
My beliefs come from a lifetime of experience, observation and introspection. I got there by asking and answering the hard questions. I think some would prefer to take the easy way out and try to live by the rules of others, rather than what they actually want for themselves. It happens throughout life, whether in regards to relations, sex, marriage, religion, politics etc.


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## Faithful Wife

AVR1962 said:


> Reading the book "Mars and Venus an a Date" and I feel like I am reading all the mistakes I have made in relationships. The follow is my interpretation rather than a direct quote from the book.
> 
> When we go thru the first phase of love when our hormones have our head in a spin we then go thru a phase of uncertainty and for men that phase means stepping back and asking himself if this is what he wants, if he is right for her, can he make her happy, if he cares about her, does he want to make her happy, does her happiness make him happy, does he miss her when he is away. The male will get to this phase before the woman and her head is still spinning with thoughts of love and the future, thinking she found the man of her dreams, no one has treated her this way, she must be love. When the man steps back she feels it and becomes anxious, she realizes something is not right. She wonders if she did something wrong, is there someone else, does he care, will he call, am I doing the right thing, am I doing enough, what can I do to regain his attention, affection and desire.
> 
> Unfortunately all her questions about her behavior lure her in the wrong direction. When a man stop his pursuit women then chase and start asking the man how he feels about her and the relationship which are all mistakes. He needs time, time to think what it is that he is feeling and truly wants from the relationship, or if he wants it at all. This is a time to test whether he really is the right person. Only he can understand what he wants. He might need to date another woman or make contact with other women to clear his thoughts. It might be 2 days, 2 weeks, or 2 months. Women who cannot understand this phase and pressure a man for his time and attention will find themselves alone and confused, hurt by what they don't understand.


But it is awesome that you are reading it and seeing it now...that's exactly why I recommended that you re-read it. Because his pulling away is just a normal thing, but we tend to chase them when that happens.

Are you still seeing the same guy?


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## Faithful Wife

Ynot said:


> I have not read the book. But the fact that it talks about, based on the quotes, "soul mates" leads me believe it is geared to dreamers who believe in the Disney version of life. From the sounds of it, there is probably some great insights into people who think that way. But, I think the reality is that for some of us, especially those of who have already bought into it and then gotten burned, that advice may not resonate, precisely because it focuses on the idea of "The One".
> At this point in my life, I am not looking for "The One" or my "soulmate". I do not think they exist. That does not mean that I do not share of myself or make myself vulnerable to others (in my case women). But because I believe these things to be the fairy tale inventions of Hallmark and Disney, I do so in ways that may not be recognizable to those who do.
> I believe that we meet people in our lives, who at this moment we can share some commonalities or compatibility with. I am too honest, with both myself and others, to pretend this moment will last forever. Maybe some want to believe that, but I simply do not.
> My beliefs come from a lifetime of experience, observation and introspection. I got there by asking and answering the hard questions. I think some would prefer to take the easy way out and try to live by the rules of others, rather than what they actually want for themselves. It happens throughout life, whether in regards to relations, sex, marriage, religion, politics etc.


I've read the book several times. Yes he does use "soul mate" but you can read it without believing in that term. He doesn't drum it down your throat or insist on some level of purity of the relationship.

It is actually an excellent book, I wish it could be re-written in a new way without some of the older fashioned language.

The book is not going to give anyone "answers" or "rules" or a map or an "easy way out". It just helps the readers understand things that are going to happen over and over, and when you don't understand them, you don't respond appropriately to them. When you do understand them, then you can make better choices.


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## Ynot

Faithful Wife said:


> I've read the book several times. Yes he does use "soul mate" but you can read it without believing in that term. He doesn't drum it down your throat or insist on some level of purity of the relationship.
> 
> It is actually an excellent book, I wish it could be re-written in a new way without some of the older fashioned language.
> 
> The book is not going to give anyone "answers" or "rules" or a map or an "easy way out". It just helps the readers understand things that are going to happen over and over, and when you don't understand them, you don't respond appropriately to them. When you do understand them, then you can make better choices.


I don't disagree with you. As I said I am sure the book provides some great advice for those wishing to live within that paradigm. I just reject that paradigm.


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## Faithful Wife

Ynot said:


> I don't disagree with you. As I said I am sure the book provides some great advice for those wishing to live within that paradigm. I just reject that paradigm.


I promise you that because you haven't read the book, you don't know what "paradigm" is in the book.

As I already said, it isn't about "soul mates" just because he uses that term.

You could actually use the book to find hook ups (whether you're a guy or a girl).

You could also use it to break up with someone (as in finding the right way to do so).


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## Ynot

Faithful Wife said:


> I promise you that because you haven't read the book, you don't know what "paradigm" is in the book.
> 
> As I already said, it isn't about "soul mates" just because he uses that term.
> 
> You could actually use the book to find hook ups (whether you're a guy or a girl).
> 
> You could also use it to break up with someone (as in finding the right way to do so).


Perhaps, as I said, I don't disagree with you.


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## AVR1962

Faithful Wife said:


> But it is awesome that you are reading it and seeing it now...that's exactly why I recommended that you re-read it. Because his pulling away is just a normal thing, but we tend to chase them when that happens.
> 
> Are you still seeing the same guy?


Yes


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