# Wife of 8 years admitted to cheating on me, I don't know what to do



## lambdabetagamma

I met my wife while studying on a university, when I was 19 and she was 20. We've been dating for 5 years and we've been married for 3. I think overall we always had a great relationship, we spent a lot of time together, we didn't argue a lot, we understood each other well and we were very close. We were best friends and also lovers. We got married quite young (me 24, she 25), but we really believed that we want to spend the rest of our lives with each other. Couple months after we got married, she admitted to me that she cheated on me once. It happened while she was away on a conference. It hurt me deeply, but we stayed together. At that time I never even considered getting a divorce because I knew she regretted that and that she still loved me. I could sill trust her because she told me by herself and if she didn't tell me I would have no way of knowing.

4 months ago, she told me that she cheated on me several times over the past year with different guys. It happened when we were in a long-distance relationship for work reasons for 4 months and then again some time after we were back living together while I was away on a conference.

This time it was much harder for me. She told me herself, even though if she didn't I wouldn't have known. She lied to me directly only once and felt so bad about it that she confessed everything soon after. I know she regretted it each time afterwards and that it was really only about the sex for her. I also know that alcohol did play a role each time, though that's no excuse of course (and she doesn't use it as an excuse). Still, this was a huge shock for me and a massive breach of trust.

I didn't know what to do and was devastated, but I eventually decided to stay with her. This may be hard to understand for some people here. Part of the reason why I stayed was because she was (and still is) such a big part of my life that I couldn't imagine living without her. It's also because I know that despite of what she did she loves me and regrets it. It's also because I know that sometimes people just make mistakes. I made a few in my life and I hurt people close to me even though I didn't want to. It took me a while, but now I can believe that she is not a bad person even though she did something really bad.

I do trust her to some extent now. I know that if she does it again, she will at least tell me. I also know that she tries her best now, not to do it again, she doesn't put herself in situations where she could cheat on me again. I think I've been able to largely forgive her, though probably not completely. Writing about it now, brings the bad memories back. I know she is willing to sacrifice a lot for the relationship and that she is willing to put effort into it. She does realize how deeply she hurt me and I know she hates herself for it.

The problem is that even if I have really forgiven her, I can't really put this out of my mind. Not necessarily the cheating only, but the relationship as a whole. Before she was the most important point in my life and I was really sure that I want to spend my life with her. Now suddenly I have to start questioning this, and that is very hard for me and I find that I do not really have the answers. I don't know if staying with her is the best choice even assuming she will never do it again. I know she loves me know, but will it really last for the rest of our lives? I'm not sure if I love her anymore. Sometimes I'm convinced I do, but sometimes I start questioning this and then I'm not really sure.

I have anxiety issues and suffer from panic attacks. I've been getting better, but this of course started to bring the old issues back, which of course makes everything more complicated. When I have these issues it's hard for me to evaluate objectively my feelings. She still is a very important part of my life and the very though of leaving her brings out a lot of these issues. I'm afraid that being so fixated on her is bad and that maybe it would be bad even if she hadn't cheated on me. But on the other hand I really enjoyed spending time with her and perhaps it's only natural that leaving a person I've been extremely close with for 8 years is something I'm afraid of.

When we started dating I was really inexperienced and it was my first serious relationship. I'm afraid now that it was a mistake to marry her, when I was so inexperienced. But, we didn't plan it that way from the beginning, we married because we were very happy with each other. I'm also now get the occasional thoughts that if I wasn't with her, I could have sex with other women, which of course is something I would enjoy (and I think anyone who claims he wouldn't like to have sex with other women after several years of relationship is fooling himself). When everything was fine, I was perfectly willing to trade that for the relationship, now I'm not so sure.

All and all, I'm a mess and I don't really know what to do. Breaking up would be hard because we own an apartment together and share a lot of friends. The most difficult part would be leaving her. She's just still so important part of my life and not having her by my side would be like if some part of me have died. I could do it, but I would need to be convinced it is a right decision. I've never been so close with anyone before and I'm not sure I could be so close with anyone afterwards.

I realize most of you will tell me that she will cheat on me again. I realize that it's very possible and it's a big part of the reason why I'm having these thoughts. But I also think there's a hope that she will not do it again or at least not for a long time because I know she regrets it and that she doesn't want to hurt me.

I'm interested in any kind of thoughts, especially from people who went through something similar.


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## ReidWright

she's an admitted serial cheater...are ok with an 'open marriage'? if not, get out now, she's not going to change.


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## tom67

Get two books...

No More Mr. Nice Guy
and
Married Mans Sex Life Primer

That will be a start.


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## tom67

Oh without consequences she WILL cheat again.
Are you willing to raise another mans kid?
Think about it.


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## the guy

Sleeping with several guys is not a mistake...its a choice and she will make that choice again and again ....why not .....she has no consequences to prevent her from doing it again.

Bad behavior continues with out consequences!


You are so codependent you need help go see a counselor and clean up your life.......From were I'm sitting its your wife that is making your life a mess....you found the wrong girl.

Your life should not be this messy


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## staystrong

You are still young and do not have children, so most people would suggest you get out. In fact, they will say RUNNNNN. The last thing you want to do is to have children with her.. it won't change her behaviours, just delay them. I doubt alcohol is the 'reason'.. it's probably just part of the party foreplay. 

She's not really at your side, is she? She's not someone whom you were able to count on.


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## Hicks

I'm sorry this happened to you. It's devestating.

In an non serial cheating scenario, typically a person is not meeting his spouse's needs, and this opens the door for her to cheat. It's a one time thing. The couple can work together to make sure the emoitonal needs issue is fixed, and thus the marriage can be fixed.

In a serial cheating situation, she is not cheating becuase some emotional need she should be getting through her marriage is not being met. It's because she has a specific emotional need to have sex outside of her marriage. Thus, the marriage cannot be fixed.

It sucks that she was not a good choice in a wife. But I"m sure most would avise you that you are better of divorcing, and rebuiliding your life then to invest further time and emotional energy into your marriage.


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## staystrong

the guy said:


> Sleeping with several guys is not a mistake...its a choice and she will make that choice again and again ....why not .....she has no consequences to prevent her from doing it again.
> 
> Bad behavior continues with out consequences!
> 
> 
> You are so codependent you need help go see a counselor and clean up your life.......From were I'm sitting its your wife that is making your life a mess....you found the wrong girl.
> 
> Your life should not be this messy


Wasn't your wife like this, though? Maybe he just needs to manhandle his wife.


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## staystrong

Hicks said:


> I'm sorry this happened to you. It's devestating.
> In an non serial cheating scenario, typically a person is not meeting his spouse's needs, and this opens the door for her to cheat. It's a one time thing. The couple can work together to make sure the emotional needs issue is fixed, and thus the marriage can be fixed.


It's never the spouse's fault. 

Maybe the marriage was vulnerable, but it's not the spouse's job to meet every emotional need. A marriage does not need to be 'perfect' for the expectation of exclusivity to be met.


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## nuclearnightmare

OP:

I am sorry you are going throuigh this, but you should take her cheating behavior as a clear demonstration that she does NOT love you. only words, if she speaks them. IMO your wife is not marriage material. Not only does she not love you, I would bet she is not capable of loving anyone. detach from her and cut your personal losses. Have children with her and that's where your real nightmare would start......


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## staystrong

Yes, please OP. Whatever you do, NEVER have children with her.

There's a chance she may suggest it at the chance of cementing the bond between the two of you. That would be the worst idea ever, and you are in emotional disarray right now. 

It's truly possible that she may not be able to love anyone as much as she loves herself. Or doesn't love herself. Hard to say...


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## loyallad

lambdabetagamma said:


> I met my wife while studying on a university, when I was 19 and she was 20. We've been dating for 5 years and we've been married for 3. I think overall we always had a great relationship, we spent a lot of time together, we didn't argue a lot, we understood each other well and we were very close. We were best friends and also lovers. We got married quite young (me 24, she 25), but we really believed that we want to spend the rest of our lives with each other. Couple months after we got married, she admitted to me that she cheated on me once. It happened while she was away on a conference. It hurt me deeply, but we stayed together. At that time I never even considered getting a divorce because I knew she regretted that and that she still loved me. I could sill trust her because she told me by herself and if she didn't tell me I would have no way of knowing.*Big red flag here. What did she do as far as R towards you? Serious work needed to be done there to R with you over her cheating.*
> 
> 4 months ago, she told me that she cheated on me several times over the past year with different guys. It happened when we were in a long-distance relationship for work reasons for 4 months and then again some time after we were back living together while I was away on a conference.*Several times with different guys? WTH? So basically any time you two were apart she's out trolling for sex on the side?*
> 
> This time it was much harder for me. She told me herself, even though if she didn't I wouldn't have known. She lied to me directly only once and felt so bad about it that she confessed everything soon after. I know she regretted it each time afterwards and that it was really only about the sex for her. I also know that alcohol did play a role each time, though that's no excuse of course (and she doesn't use it as an excuse). Still, this was a huge shock for me and a massive breach of trust.*Lied to you directly only once? WRONG! Every time she was screwing some other guy she was lying to you. Oh wait she was drunk every time so that really doesn't count. Seriously? A massive breach of trust? To say the least.*
> 
> I didn't know what to do and was devastated, but I eventually decided to stay with her. This may be hard to understand for some people here. Part of the reason why I stayed was because she was (and still is) such a big part of my life that I couldn't imagine living without her. It's also because I know that despite of what she did she loves me and regrets it. It's also because I know that sometimes people just make mistakes. I made a few in my life and I hurt people close to me even though I didn't want to. It took me a while, but now I can believe that she is not a bad person even though she did something really bad.*Loves you and regrets it. Did she love you and regret it every time she was doing a different guy? What's up with the "she's such a big part of your life"? News flash your not such a big part of her life. She's out screwing around with different men. Seems to me they are the big part of her life. Why do you want to make someone so important to you when obviously you aren't that important to them?*
> 
> I do trust her to some extent now. I know that if she does it again, she will at least tell me. I also know that she tries her best now, not to do it again, she doesn't put herself in situations where she could cheat on me again. I think I've been able to largely forgive her, though probably not completely. Writing about it now, brings the bad memories back. I know she is willing to sacrifice a lot for the relationship and that she is willing to put effort into it. She does realize how deeply she hurt me and I know she hates herself for it.*That's big of her that she will tell you the next time she screws some guy so you won't be clueless. So considerate of her. Lambda she won't sacrifice one iota for you or your marriage.*
> 
> The problem is that even if I have really forgiven her, I can't really put this out of my mind. Not necessarily the cheating only, but the relationship as a whole. Before she was the most important point in my life and I was really sure that I want to spend my life with her. Now suddenly I have to start questioning this, and that is very hard for me and I find that I do not really have the answers. I don't know if staying with her is the best choice even assuming she will never do it again. I know she loves me know, but will it really last for the rest of our lives? I'm not sure if I love her anymore. Sometimes I'm convinced I do, but sometimes I start questioning this and then I'm not really sure.
> *You need to be the most important part in your own life not some person who at the drop of a hat is out screwing around own her clueless H. Get your head in the game. Yeah all this is heavy crap to go through but only you can do anything about it. If you can't trust her and she's not willing to do all that is possible to stop this behaviour and to make things right with you and your not sure you love her anymore then not a lot of choices are there? You can either put up with her screwing around and you never really trusting her or you can put her out of your life and move on.*


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## ArmyofJuan

lambdabetagamma said:


> She lied to me directly only once and felt so bad about it that she confessed everything soon after. *I know she regretted it each time afterwards* and that it was really only about the sex for her.


She doesn't regret it enough to stop.

She is addicted to cheating and you are the enabler. She will cheat on you as long as you stay with her.



> I didn't know what to do and was devastated, but I eventually decided to stay with her. This may be hard to understand for some people here. Part of the reason why I stayed was because she was (and still is) such a big part of my life that I couldn't imagine living without her.


You stay because you are co-dependent and afraid to leave.

You picked a bad apple, you don't want to accept that and are hoping this can be saved. It can't.


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## badmemory

lambdabetagamma said:


> I know that if she does it again, she will at least tell me.


That's kind of a low bar you're setting for her don't you think. An honest cheater - a clear oxymoron.

I'm a strong believer in not giving cheating spouses a third chance.
She's an admitted serial cheater and in all probability she will cheat on you again. Not just because she wants to, but because she expects you'll do nothing about it. Why wouldn't she think that?

I'm not going to advise you on giving her the right consequences and how remorseful she should act; because I believe it wouldn't matter. 

So you have two choices as I see it.

- Stay with her and always have that nagging anxiety about whether (or more likely when) she will cheat again, along with the regret for losing your self respect.

- Divorce her and don't look back.

I would recommend the latter.


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## italianjob

You married a serial cheater, she will do it again and again, there's no changing this situation.
If you have no kids, this is a no brainer: run to avoid the many heartaches she'll give you if you stay-


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## tom67

italianjob said:


> You married a serial cheater, she will do it again and again, there's no changing this situation.
> If you have no kids, this is a no brainer: run to avoid the many heartaches she'll give you if you stay-


:iagree:
lamb not to be harsh but simply if you don't respect yourself who will?
Get some ic if you can you need it.


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## LongWalk

How many different guys?
She has a taste for the strange and new. She must look at other men with the come fvck me look; she is active in pursuit of other men.

You are beta husband. 

Work out.

Read MMSLP and other stuff on sexual attraction.

If you were to cheat on your wife, what would she say?

Has she said she doesn't mind if you sleep with other women?

I don't think you should seek a revenge affair. However, I don't see why you should be faithful. Maybe you should get a lover to find out how it feels.

You can confess later so it's not completely dishonest.

Read Racer.


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## manfromlamancha

She is NOT an important part of your life - she is a toxic part of your life.

She has no respect for you or the marriage whatsoever.

She has faced no consequences for her actions so far and will continue to do what she does.

She does not love you.

She did not make any mistakes - she made selfish choices.

Get out of this now while you can. The apartment can be got rid of and friends will sort themselves out.

Get your self-respect back and focus on yourself from now on.

File for divorce now and protect your finances and assets.


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## MattMatt

OK. Couple's counselling and individual counselling.

This is a must even if you decide to divorce.


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## lambdabetagamma

Does everyone really think that the marriage cannot be repaired? A lot of you are saying that she no respect for me or for the marriage. I really don't think that's true, she has really done everything she can to save the marriage after she told me (the second time). She didn't cheat on me for two years after she told me the first time. Probably she will manage it now for some time as well. But, I don't know if she can manage it for the rest of her life. She doesn't know either and she never promised me that she will never do it again. I know right now she really wants to be faithful, but I don't know if she will manage forever and neither does she.

And yes she told me to have sex with someone too so that we get even. However, I don't think that would help the marriage in any way. 

I know I can survive the breakup and I know that eventually I will get over her. But it would be extremely hard for me. Does it really mean I'm too dependent on her? Isn't it normal after 8 years of really close relationship? I know it would be very hard for her too, though perhaps not as hard as for me.


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## warlock07

I saw your post on reddit.

What do you want ?


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## tom67

lambdabetagamma said:


> Does everyone really think that the marriage cannot be repaired? A lot of you are saying that she no respect for me or for the marriage. I really don't think that's true, she has really done everything she can to save the marriage after she told me (the second time). She didn't cheat on me for two years after she told me the first time. Probably she will manage it now for some time as well. But, I don't know if she can manage it for the rest of her life. She doesn't know either and she never promised me that she will never do it again. I know right now she really wants to be faithful, but I don't know if she will manage forever and neither does she.
> 
> And yes she told me to have sex with someone too so that we get even. However, I don't think that would help the marriage in any way.
> 
> I know I can survive the breakup and I know that eventually I will get over her. But it would be extremely hard for me. Does it really mean I'm too dependent on her? Isn't it normal after 8 years of really close relationship? I know it would be very hard for her too, though perhaps not as hard as for me.


Lamb in time you will think of this as a gift.
She has shown you who she truly is this early in the m.
Only married 3 years this should be an easy and less expensive d.
If she really loved you she wouldn't have cheated you deserve better.


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## warlock07

> And yes she told me to have sex with someone too so that we get even. However, I don't think that would help the marriage in any way.


No wonder you are where you are today.The way you talk about her, you don't talk about her like a lover or a partner. You seem so dependent on her.


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## manfromlamancha

Based on what you have just said, I disagree with you and still stand by what I said with regard to her not having respect (or love) for you or the marriage.

She wants to preserve the marriage for her stability (financial etc) and not because she respects and loves you.

And not promising to never do it again is truly mind-blowing!!! What is your breaking point? Truly disrespectful as is asking you to go and have sex with someone else to be even.

You really need to fix yourself first, because as others have said, you are not reacting "normally" to this - you still believe the sun shines out of her a$$!

She is a vile toxic disrespectful partner that will eventually grind you into the dust if you don't grow a pair and leave soon.


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## italianjob

lambdabetagamma said:


> Does everyone really think that the marriage cannot be repaired? A lot of you are saying that she no respect for me or for the marriage. I really don't think that's true, she has really done everything she can to save the marriage after she told me (the second time). She didn't cheat on me for two years after she told me the first time. Probably she will manage it now for some time as well. But, I don't know if she can manage it for the rest of her life. She doesn't know either and she never promised me that she will never do it again. I know right now she really wants to be faithful, but I don't know if she will manage forever and neither does she.
> 
> And yes she told me to have sex with someone too so that we get even. However, I don't think that would help the marriage in any way.
> 
> I know I can survive the breakup and I know that eventually I will get over her. But it would be extremely hard for me. Does it really mean I'm too dependent on her? Isn't it normal after 8 years of really close relationship? I know it would be very hard for her too, though perhaps not as hard as for me.


Wow! What an effort! Two full years without cheating! Who wouldn't want a wife that can manage two years of fidelity?

Come on, man! 

Look, if you don't mind your wife screwing around for the rest of your life, stay with her, but don't fool yourself into thinking she won't cheat on you multiple times in the next few decades.
You also have a very high risk of raising some other man's child, IMO.

My advice is still run while you still can, but it's your life...


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## Dyokemm

"You stay because you are co-dependent and afraid to leave."

This is the reality of your situation.

And, in answer to your questions in your last post....no, it is not healthy to be so attached and dependent on another human being, even a spouse, for your own sense of happiness and contentment, regardless of how long you have been together.

Those things should primarily come from a sense of self-worth and self-respect.

And right now by tolerating and rugsweeping her multiple betrayals your are showing you have neither of these qualities.

Your best course is to D and work on addressing your co-dependency issues before you involve yourself with another woman....otherwise you are likely to choose another partner whose narcissism and selfishness lead her to betray you.


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## NoChoice

Lamb, what is your definition of "love"? She cheated on you and now says you can go have sex to "even the score"? She did not promise to not cheat on you? What did your marriage vows say? Look, your anxiety problems make you look at her as a stable in a world of instability but they are lying to you. She is the opposite of stable. She is basically proposing an open marriage. She gets what she wants and you can go get what you want. Is that acceptable to you?

Please, for the love of all things holy, do not bring children into this because this will end badly and then they will pay for it. However, she may very well bring children into it accidentally. Are you ready to assume that responsibility?

I don't think either of you have any idea of what love is. Her because of the way she treats you and you for the way you treat you. Why subject yourself to this? I assume you married to be in a committed relationship, maybe raise a family someday. She is not on the same page, she's not even in the same book, maybe not even in the same library.

A mistake is a one time event where the WS shows deep, sincere remorse and realizes what they've done and is willing to do anything to restore the trust and save the marriage. Once is a mistake, this is a pattern. So here are your choices; stay with her and relive this scenario for the rest of your life or until she finds an OM she can't live without and leaves you or run like the wind, don't look back and make a life with someone who actually loves you. Good luck to you.


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## MattMatt

manfromlamancha said:


> Based on what you have just said, I disagree with you and still stand by what I said with regard to her not having respect (or love) for you or the marriage.
> 
> She wants to preserve the marriage for her stability (financial etc) and not because she respects and loves you.
> 
> And not promising to never do it again is truly mind-blowing!!! What is your breaking point? Truly disrespectful as is asking you to go and have sex with someone else to be even.
> 
> You really need to fix yourself first, because as others have said, you are not reacting "normally" to this - you still believe the sun shines out of her a$$!
> 
> She is a vile toxic disrespectful partner that will eventually grind you into the dust if you don't grow a pair and leave soon.


He's reacting all too normally, sadly.

He loves her, she loves him, he can't believe she would cheat on him, but she confessed... so here comes the cognitive dissonance.


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## stunned

lambdabetagamma said:


> Does everyone really think that the marriage cannot be repaired? A lot of you are saying that she no respect for me or for the marriage. I really don't think that's true, she has really done everything she can to save the marriage after she told me (the second time). She didn't cheat on me for two years after she told me the first time. Probably she will manage it now for some time as well. But, I don't know if she can manage it for the rest of her life. She doesn't know either and she never promised me that she will never do it again. I know right now she really wants to be faithful, but I don't know if she will manage forever and neither does she.


... And you are OK with this????? Seriously lambda, you have to have some self respect. She never promised she wouldn't do it again? Wow, most WS's at least say this - even if they are lying. She is just in your face with the fact that she will cheat again. 
How do you know she's not cheating right now? Have you looked at her phone? her Facebook? Email? Call and text logs? Do you have all her passwords to everything? She will cheat again. Why? Because you let her and don't do anything about it. 
You obviously care because if not, you wouldn't have come here. Almost everyone here has been affected by a cheating spouse. We've been through it. We've heard all the excuses and lies. We've seen betrayed spouses make mistake after mistake after mistake and only create more misery for themselves. Listen to what these people are telling you. Man up. Do not stand for this. This woman is broken, most likely beyond the point of having a monogamous relationship.


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## barbados

All I can add to what has already been posted is that I hope this is not for real. Because if it is, its hard to fathom a person having so little self respect for themselves as you do.


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## lambdabetagamma

She didn't promise because she simply wasn't sure she could keep the promise. I know she really gives her best now, but as you all say that will probably not last.



> This woman is broken, most likely beyond the point of having a monogamous relationship.


You know I think she realizes that too, that's why I think she wants to change, not just for me, but for herself as well.


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## staystrong

Well, what is she doing to change?

What is she doing to make it up to you?

Aren't you triggering and having mind movies?

Just remember it's not YOUR job to save her. Don't make her brokenness the focus of all of this. You need to focus on yourself as well and find out why you would put up with such violations.


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## stunned

Again, I'll ask - are you monitoring her texts, calls, Facebook, email, etc...??
Has she given you all her passwords and full transparency to everything? If not, then she's really not trying. These are just the first, basic prerequisite steps to recovery. If she won't or can't even do this, then it's over before it starts. 
You need to monitor her. You obviously cannot trust her. 
And you need to think about this - what exactly is your breaking point? What line does she have to cross now to force you to actually divorce her and move on? Everyone has a breaking point. You need to figure out what yours is, and have a plan for when it happens. Because unfortunately, I feel that it will happen. And probably sooner than later.


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## lambdabetagamma

Well, she doesn't drink much now and doesn't go out to situations where this could happen again (parties etc.). What can she do to make it up to me? She's really trying to save the marriage, but there's really nothing that could make this disappear.


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## lambdabetagamma

Anyway, I appreciate all your advice even though it may seem like I don't.


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## stunned

lambdabetagamma said:


> Anyway, I appreciate all your advice even though it may seem like I don't.


You may be appreciating it, but you're not listening to it. You are setting yourself up for a lifetime of heartbreak, i'm afraid.


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## loyallad

lambdabetagamma said:


> She didn't promise because she simply wasn't sure she could keep the promise. I know she really gives her best now, but as you all say that will probably not last.


Lambda do you read what you put on here? She didn't promise because she simply wasn't sure she could keep the promise. Okay let me say this, if she can't promise to be faithful to you then she doesn't, hasn't and will not ever love you. It's just not in her to be faithful. Not at this point in her life, probably ever. 

You want to know why so many on here see no future for you and her? Most of us have been down this tragic road way before you wandered along. We KNOW. We've seen the same behaviour, heard the same crap, felt the same pain.

Ask yourself this. If things aren't so bad as you keep waffling back and forth then why did you come here? Deep down did you really think we would all sing her praises, tell you hang in there, it will get better?


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## lambdabetagamma

loyallad said:


> Ask yourself this. If things aren't so bad as you keep waffling back and forth then why did you come here? Deep down did you really think we would all sing her praises, tell you hang in there, it will get better?


I came here to get opinions from people who've been through something similar. Obviously things are not ok, but if we are both willing to work on the relationship and we have been for 4 months, I think we could rescue it. The problem of course is that I don't know if it's worth it and I don't know if she can be faithful in the future.


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## stunned

lambdabetagamma said:


> I came here to get opinions from people who've been through something similar. Obviously things are not ok, but if we are both willing to work on the relationship and we have been for 4 months, I think we could rescue it. The problem of course is that I don't know if it's worth it and I don't know if she can be faithful in the future.


You are getting opinions from people who have gone through this. You just refuse to listen and heed the advice, no matter how hard we try to hammer it at you.
Forget the future, if you have not been doing the things I and others have told you - monitoring, accountability, etc., then you really don't know if she's being faithful NOW. Even SHE tells you she's not going to be faithful in the future, because I'll tell you something:
"I don't know if I can be faithful in the future" = "There's no way in hell I can be faithful in the future. And the future starts now."


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## azteca1986

lambdabetagamma said:


> I came here to get opinions from people who've been through something similar. Obviously things are not ok, but if we are both willing to work on the relationship and we have been for 4 months, I think we could rescue it. The problem of course is that I don't know if it's worth it and *I don't know if she can be faithful in the future.*


Well, she doesn't know either, so that's makes two of you. It might not be clear to you, but some of the people responding to you reconciled with their Wandering Spouses (WS). None of them accepted that there would be another chance - certainly not what you're accepting that if/when she cheats again she'll let you know.

My wife and I have been on different continents since early July. I'm all alone in an apartment free of monitoring and supervision. Do you know how easy it is to not cheat on your spouse?

It's easier for me (and you) not to cheat. Your wife is the opposite. And this is a situation when you find you're married to serial cheater that opposites shouldn't attract.

What has she done to find out why she cheats? Not the alcohol and the parties. What is about her that she can so causally betray you? If she isn't already in the process of finding out, how will she ever change?


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## bryanp

I do hope you both have been tested for STD's. The fact that she cheated on you and put your health at risk for STD's a couple of months after getting married says it all. I have a hunch she has had sex with more men than she has told you.

I am sorry to say but you clearly are in big time denial. Are you just going to wait until you catch an STD? It is time to step back and realize that you have married a serial cheater who is probably sex addicted. This will end very badly for you. Do not have children with her. 

1. Get tested for STD's.
2. See an attorney to understand your options.

How much humiliation and disrespect are you willing to endure?
You judge a person by their actions and not by their words and her actions speak volumes. If you do not respect yourself then who will?
Do you waste the rest of your life with this person. You deserve better. It is sad that you do not think so.


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## ButtPunch

You are getting help from people who have been thru it and it looks like 100% have the same opinion of your situation. GET OUT NOW!

Work on your codependency while you are single man. Never put a woman even your wife on a pedestal ever again.


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## RV9

Similar situation like strongsad.


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## ArmyofJuan

Right now you are in denial, that's very common in your situation. We are telling you things you don't want to hear but you need to.

Your situation isn't unique, both you are her are acting in textbook manner. The thing is not every marriage should be saved. 

She feels guilty for cheating because you are a good guy however a part of her thinks you deserve to be cheated on. That's how she justifies it to herself. She probably thinks if you had a backbone you would have done things to prevent her from cheating in the first place.

This isn't true of course, she has a problem and she is the only one that can fix it assuming she even tries. Odds are she will jump on the next opportunity that comes up because she has some need for external validation from other men.

Unless you want to be a cuckold, you don't have any real options but to get out. There's nothing you can do to change her, its out of your control.


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## thummper

Lambda, what consequences has she had to face? She's a proven cheater. She's learned that she can screw around on you and nothing bad's gonna happen.  From what you've described of her past behaviors, and from my own experiences, I don't think you have a ghost of a chance of EVER trusting her again. It's your life, brother. You're the one who's gonna have to deal with doubt and suspicion for the rest of your time with her. Hope things work out for you, but I'll have to admit, the odds are long.


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## badmemory

lambdabetagamma said:


> I came here to get opinions from people who've been through something similar.


Research all the threads lambda. You'll find a few BS's that were dealing with a serial cheater and were initially content to be a door mat, just like yourself. 

But I challenge you to find one of those BS's who continued to accept that status, and will tell you they made the right decision.

She won't promise that she won't cheat again and you still want to save the marriage? Are you kidding me? 

You are a puppy to her. She feels sorry for you, she likes you, but she has no respect for you.

You need counseling in the worst way; for co-dependency and to re-discover your own self respect.


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## Q tip

Please drag her skank a$$ to the doctor and get a full STD test now. You too.

Stop having sex with her. Do not get her pregnant. 

File divorce papers immediately. 

Next time you date classy ladies not skank ho's

Read those books and improve yourself.

Damn education systems don't prepare men to be real men anymore...

LEARN something about all this. No, learn a lot. Next time you'll know much better about yourself and your LTR candidates.

She failed you. Next her to the street where she dwells.


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## LongWalk

Only you can decide whether or not to fight for your marriage. First you must define what marriage is to you. Is is necessarily monogamous? What is it for her? Behavior wise she is not monogamous but what about her ideal? If she has monogamy as an ideal, then you must have boundaries and stick to them.

If you have an open marriage, the rules are different.

How many guys were there? You didn't say. Is that because the number is so high, you are afraid people will ridicule you? Don't worry about that.

What does she see or want in these temporary attachments? Is is sexual, emotional, both?

If she is emotionally connected to other men, I would get out because the pain will be too great if she strays again. If it is just sex, then maybe you can find some compromise in an open marriage.

Whatever you do, you need to make certain that she respects you. 

Machiavelli is not around anymore. But he would have asked you, do women hit on you often?

Are you overweight? How close are you to the ratio of shoulder to waist that drives feminine desire?

Also, how has her cheating affected your sex life? Do you experience hysterical bonding?


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## badmemory

LongWalk said:


> Machiavelli is not around anymore. But he would have asked you, do women hit on you often?
> 
> Are you overweight? How close are you to the ratio of shoulder to waist that drives feminine desire?
> 
> Also, how has her cheating affected your sex life? Do you experience hysterical bonding?


That he would LongWalk. lol


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## ThePheonix

lambdabetagamma said:


> I have anxiety issues and suffer from panic attacks.
> 
> When we started dating I was really inexperienced and it was my first serious relationship. I'm afraid now that it was a mistake to marry her, when I was so inexperienced.


Lamb, you're not only inexperienced, you're weak my man. Your girl has lost respect for you long before her first fling. Here's the thing about loss of respect. Women can often tolerate drinking, running the streets, blowing money and a host of other things. The one thing they can't tolerate is loss of respect and once its gone, it never comes back. Ask them if you don't believe me. 
She tells you about her escapades to get it off her chest and confirm you're a wuss. She doesn't give a rats azz how it makes you feel. It make her feel better to know you may not like it, but you ain't going to do anything about it.
Dawg, you haven't decided to stay with her. She decided to stay with you (for the time being). Its clear to me her interest in you has dropped. That coupled with her lack of respect you caused by your weak behavior, its just a matter of time before you get the old, "I love you but" speech and your kicked to the curb. Keep a suitcase handy. You're going to need it.


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## Q tip

Next time, date a few ladies. Maybe Get serious with a few. Get experience. (One at a time, don't cheat). Then you'll be able to see what's good for you and what's not. First serious relationships - it's true, that lack of experience matters.

So, chalk it up as what to avoid next time. There are plenty of really decent ladies out there. They're looking for someone like you. 

Read those books and become that confident, decent guy. Keep your pride intact.


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## LongWalk

And if Mach were here he would coach you. Alas, you have only us here. But you can read how he successful helped.... what's his name, the sound engineer whose wife didn't love him anymore... Bagdon. Yes, read Bagdon.

Your goal should be to regain your sense of self so that you are strong enough to make without her.


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## carpenoctem

lambda:

You are wondering about the* future *of your marriage.

From outside looking in, it seems your marriage did not even have much of a *past* (well, the past wasn’t what you thought it was, once she disclosed her frequent outsourcing of sex, was it?)

You know she might / will go mate with other men if you are physically absent for some time (if you go away, as it has happened in the past), or if she gets drunk and you are not around. So will you ensure that you NEVER leave her side? *How long can you function as her de facto chastity belt, thus?*

None of us here are getting the feeling that you will take affirmative action even if (more likely, even ‘when’) she repeats this. And I presume, neither does she. Does not bode well.

Contrary to what you say, you ARE NOT trying to make your marriage work. You are trying to make a unilateral open marriage work. Best of luck with that.




If you do eventually manage to extricate yourself from this situation, and from her, you will later on look back and be astounded at what you were ready to put up with.

*One life. No retakes. I plead with you to be fair to yourself.*


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## BobSimmons

lambdabetagamma said:


> I came here to get opinions from people who've been through something similar. Obviously things are not ok, but* if* we are both willing to work on the relationship and we have been for 4 months, *I think* *we could* rescue it. The problem of course is that *I don't know* if it's worth it and I don't know *if* she can be faithful in the future.


If, I don't know, I think, we could...

Band aid over a crack. 

Yes any marriage can be rescued. I'd give a possible pass on a one time discretion, but multiple times? Absolutely no excuse.

I never get wound up by a poster who wants to work on his marriage. Good luck to you. You're an adult and you're going into this with both your eyes open.

As the saying goes..love didn't bring your tail home last night
Love has nothing to do with it.

Respect does. 

Multiple times = No respect.

Good luck.


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## Q tip

Is Mach permabanned or just a time out. Anyone know the details..?


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## lambdabetagamma

You people make a lot of good points and I'm seriously considering ending it. At the same time though, I know a lot of things you say are not true. My wife does respect me, no matter how strange it may seem to you. She obviously has issues and she realizes that. She is trying to improve herself. She does care about the marriage. And there are consequences to her actions, she knows the marriage may end and she knew it even when she told me.

And our relationship definitely did have a past, you could maybe say that last year was all a sham, but even though I felt that way of course after she told me, I now realize that it's more complicated than that.


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## Vulcan2013

She couldn't promise to be faithful? Didn't she already? (You may remember something called "vows"). 

Seriously, it looks like she cheats on you anytime you are away; in other words, when she has an opportunity. Could you, in a four-month separation, manage to have sex with a "few" different women? 

She isn't taking responsibility; she can't promise to change it. She's a victim, and has no moral agency; therefore, she won't keep her vows. 

Don't have children with her; get out. It may be scary, but you'll be an empty husk of a man after 20 years of this.


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## Q tip

Cake eater.

Cheat, admit, apologize, rinse and repeat. 

Your definition of respect does not exist except in a pile of lost hope. She's burned it. It's gone. 

She knows she has her perfect match. Do you?

You know your future is a sham. She's in control. All you do is cower. Please consider your life. How many will it take. Soon she'll be stuck on another dude and then you'll be out. Don't be that guy.


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## Q tip

Well, put it this way..

Would you ever date a girl who freely and openly cheats with any other guy who comes along?

...No?

You're married to one...

She's broken.


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## TRy

lambdabetagamma said:


> I know that if she does it again, she will at least tell me. I also know that she tries her best now, not to do it again, she doesn't put herself in situations where she could cheat on me again.


 She cheated on you in the early months of your marriage, and she has cheated on you a number of times up until just recently. She is not promising you that she will not cheat again, only that she will try not to cheat and if she does she will tell you. She has now set it up such that when she does cheat and not tell you about it, the main issue will not be the cheating, but her not telling you. How messed up is that? This is the logic used by serial cheaters in grooming their husbands into accepting being a cuckold. Before you could claim that you did not know that you were a cuckold, but now that you know, you need to ask yourself are OK continuing being being a cuckold going forward? 



lambdabetagamma said:


> She does realize how deeply she hurt me and I know she hates herself for it.


 She is addicted to cheating. Addicts hate being addicts, but not as much as they love their addiction. You have been warned by others on this thread, by me, and by your wife. You do not get to act surprised when she next cheats.


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## MattMatt

Has she given a reason for cheating?

Incidentally (and this may have no relevance in your case) several people on TAM have pointed out that a number of women who cheated had been, sadly, sexually abused as children.

I am certain the abuse my wife suffered as a child was at least one factor in her behaviour in later life.


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## BobSimmons

lambdabetagamma said:


> You people make a lot of good points and I'm seriously considering ending it. At the same time though, I know a lot of things you say are not true. My wife does respect me, no matter how strange it may seem to you. She obviously has issues and she realizes that. She is trying to improve herself. She does care about the marriage. And there are consequences to her actions, she knows the marriage may end and she knew it even when she told me.
> 
> And our relationship definitely did have a past, you could maybe say that last year was all a sham, but even though I felt that way of course after she told me, I now realize that it's more complicated than that.


Yes because sleeping with multiple men equals respect..


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## NoChoice

lambdabetagamma said:


> Well, she doesn't drink much now and doesn't go out to situations where this could happen again (parties etc.). What can she do to make it up to me? She's really trying to save the marriage, but there's really nothing that could make this disappear.


How about sincerely promising to not hurt you again!! She can't make it disappear but she can make it not happen again, but she won't commit to that. You call that respect?? You call that love?? You call that trying to save a marriage?? Your name implies fraternity affiliation, did you ever crack open a dictionary in college?? Look up respect, love, commitment. The reason we're all telling you to cut and run is because we know those definitions and she aint doing it!! Man look, just be absolutely sure you are okay with what has happened in the last year because that will be your future with her. You will have better odds of finding ice on the surface of the sun than her changing. Your call, just be sure.


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## Q tip

She's addicted to the high and excitement. She's tasted it, she'll do it again.


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## ConanHub

She needs to not worry about marriage right now. She is really in need of mental/emotional therapy. Maybe after she is healthy, she can be married to you. 

Sometimes you have to just get healthy before anything else.


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## LongWalk

Q tip said:


> She's addicted to the high and excitement. She's tasted it, she'll do it again.


In fact, she may love you and cheating on you is part of the thrill. You love her very much so it makes her giving herself to another man a rush. She is not just giving her lips, breast and vagina to another man, but what belongs to you. She probably remembers thinking about you and then blocking you out of her mind and then recalling you afterwards.


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## bigfoot

Sir, your wife respects you as much as you respect yourself. I hate to sound harsh, but that means she does not respect you enough. 

She's willing to cheat, you're willing to be cheated on so long as she will sorta promise to maybe not cheat unless she does in which case she will cheat and you will try to find the good in that because there is so much more to your story than words can convey. I was being sarcastic, yet truthful.

She's not a good mate. Neither are you, because you are willing to accept her. Do what you want, because she will. Don't wine, don't ask for advice, you don't need any. You know what you must do, end it. Once you fix yourself, you will never want her back.


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## ThePheonix

lambdabetagamma said:


> At the same time though, I know a lot of things you say are not true. My wife does respect me, no matter how strange it may seem to you.


Well my granddaddy used to tell me to find a woman who's a flexible giver. I don't think your girl is what he was talking about. But I'll tell you what Dawg, go and talk to five or six women. Ask them if they can love and respect their husbands and still do several different guys while the husband knows and tolerates whats going on. (and they will not even promise to stop screwing around) Get back with us on that.


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## thummper

lambdabetagamma said:


> You people make a lot of good points and I'm seriously considering ending it. At the same time though, I know a lot of things you say are not true. *My wife does respect me, no matter how strange it may seem to you. *She obviously has issues and she realizes that. She is trying to improve herself. She does care about the marriage. And there are consequences to her actions, she knows the marriage may end and she knew it even when she told me.
> 
> And our relationship definitely did have a past, you could maybe say that last year was all a sham, but even though I felt that way of course after she told me, I now realize that it's more complicated than that.


Ok, how much respect did she show when she allowed herself to get nailed by another man?  I don't know what your definition of "respect" is, but that doesn't fit mine. If you choose to rug sweep and ignore what she's done, well, it's your life. I wouldn't bet that this won't happen again in the future. Good luck.


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## just got it 55

bigfoot said:


> Sir, your wife respects you as much as you respect yourself. I hate to sound harsh, but that means she does not respect you enough.
> 
> She's willing to cheat, you're willing to be cheated on so long as she will sorta promise to maybe not cheat unless she does in which case she will cheat and you will try to find the good in that because there is so much more to your story than words can convey. I was being sarcastic, yet truthful.
> 
> She's not a good mate. Neither are you, because you are willing to accept her. Do what you want, because she will. Don't wine, don't ask for advice, you don't need any. You know what you must do, end it. Once you fix yourself, you will never want her back.


Lamb there is something lacking in your household Care to take a guess what it is ?:scratchhead:

55


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## 6301

Look. Lets make this a simple as possible. She cheats, then confesses. You forgive her.

Then she cheats again, then confesses. This time you find out that it's multiple times. You forgive her.

So to sum it up, She can cheat, confess and all is cool because you refuse to do anything about it so if your wondering if she'll do t again? You bet she will and why not. You refuse to make her pay for her bad behavior and choose to look the other way and hope that it doesn't happen again.

So ask yourself this. Is this a good marriage? Do you feel that just an apology is good enough? Most of all, do you feel like you deserve better than what your getting? 

The only thing your getting is kicked in the gut, being disrespected, and being walked on like a door mat.

Your the only one that can do anything about it and IMO, she's too far gone and your too gullible to see it. File for a divorce, hand her the divorce papers, show her the door and get on with your life before it gets far more worse.


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## tom67

6301 said:


> Look. Lets make this a simple as possible. She cheats, then confesses. You forgive her.
> 
> Then she cheats again, then confesses. This time you find out that it's multiple times. You forgive her.
> 
> So to sum it up, She can cheat, confess and all is cool because you refuse to do anything about it so if your wondering if she'll do t again? You bet she will and why not. You refuse to make her pay for her bad behavior and choose to look the other way and hope that it doesn't happen again.
> 
> So ask yourself this. Is this a good marriage? Do you feel that just an apology is good enough? Most of all, do you feel like you deserve better than what your getting?
> 
> The only thing your getting is kicked in the gut, being disrespected, and being walked on like a door mat.
> 
> Your the only one that can do anything about it and IMO, she's too far gone and your too gullible to see it. File for a divorce, hand her the divorce papers, show her the door and get on with your life before it gets far more worse.


I don't know if it will do any good but print this and read it over and over.
:slap::slap:


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## carmen ohio

lambdabetagamma said:


> You people make a lot of good points and I'm seriously considering ending it. At the same time though, I know a lot of things you say are not true. *My wife does respect me*, no matter how strange it may seem to you. She obviously has issues and she realizes that. She is trying to improve herself. She does care about the marriage. And there are consequences to her actions, she knows the marriage may end and she knew it even when she told me.
> 
> And our relationship definitely did have a past, you could maybe say that last year was all a sham, but even though I felt that way of course after she told me, *I now realize that it's more complicated than that.*


I think we've discovered the source of your problem, lambdabetagamma -- you don't know what it means to be respected. If someone _respects_ you, he or she treats you with deference and avoids doing things that would disappoint or upset you. Call it what you will, your WW does _not_ treat you with respect.

You're also wrong when you say it's complicated. Actually, it's quite simple -- how much does it bother you that your WW is a serial cheater? Based upon what you've told us and how you have reacted to the advice here, it would seem not very much at this point in time, in which case you can safely ignore for the moment the advice you are getting.

But, if you're like most men (and I suspect you are), you are going to feel worse and worse about what your WW has done until you can't stand it anymore and leave her. The only question then is how much more disrespect will you put up with before you decide you've had enough.

Assuming you have fairly represented what your WW has done and how you feel about it, I'm guessing it's only a matter of time before you realize what a mistake you made when you married her. When that happens, you will find the advice you are getting to be priceless.

In any case, as someone else advised you, do _not_ get her pregnant. If you can just manage that, I think you will eventually come to your senses and be OK.

Good luck.


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## Sports Fan

Cheating once is a mistake. Cheating several times means she does not give a rats arse about you.

The biggest problem however is the seemingly lack of self respect you seem to have for yourself in offering up no consequences of whatsoever for her foul behavour.

Sorry that this is harsh but some tough love is needed here.


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## tom67

Sports Fan said:


> Cheating once is a mistake. Cheating several times means she does not give a rats arse about you.
> 
> The biggest problem however is the seemingly lack of self respect you seem to have for yourself in offering up no consequences of whatsoever for her foul behavour.
> 
> Sorry that this is harsh but some tough love is needed here.


I am serious...
Where you abused as a child.
Just asking.


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## FromEurope

i think she knows very well your personality and confessing was just one way to clean her conscience. you seem to be to much of a good guy, she takes advantage of this.... maybe unwillingly.
anyway, i dont see a future with her. she is vulnerable at attentions and immature yet to respect vows. the fact that she gave you a free pass proves it. not saying she is terrible or worst, but for sure, since she cares for you, she is forcing herself to go against her natural way of being, and this is not good for neather both of you.
so if i was you i would get seperated immediatly without drama.... telling her that you cant live this way and you both need better.
wish her love and move on.


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## lambdabetagamma

It's not like when she told me, I said it's ok I forgive you. Both times after she told me I was devastated and we were having a rough time. The second time, we really didn't know if the marriage will last and she knows now that I'm really thinking about divorce. I told her I may be able to forgive her, but that I couldn't bear her doing it again. We probably should have dealt with it more the first time she did it, but at the time, although it was hard for me, I didn't see it as an end of the world.

I know that she may do it again and that's the main reason why I'm thinking about ending it. You guys are right that this is something that can't be easily forgotten. That's why I came here for advice 4 months after she told me. 

She really wanted to promise me that she wouldn't do it again, but she couldn't honestly do it. My wife is not stupid and she sees the same thing I see and you see - that if she has done it so many times in the past she may do it in the future. She didn't tell me she will do it again, she said she will do her best not to and that she wants to work on herself. If she made a promise we both would know it's a false promise because no matter how much she wants to at that moments, neither of us knows, if she can keep it. She was at least able to promise me that if it happens again, she will tell me next time so that I can divorce her (her words). I think she fully realizes how wrong it was. She admits she has a problem and she is willing to work on it. She gave me her passwords and would be willing to go to a couples therapy.

To me what she did is really bad, but not as bad as if she was involved in a long-term romantic affair. She cheated to many times so I'm not able to brush it of as a mistake. It definitely bothers me a lot. But she did not cheat at every possible opportunity like some people are saying here and while she did cheat a few months after the wedding, that was after 5 years of close relationship with no cheating. Is her kind of cheating really so bad that no kind of reconciliation is possible? She did cheat quite a few times, but we only discussed it twice and only now properly.

Is it really a problem of self-respect? Is it really so weird that after so many good times together, I'm unwilling to throw it all away? Everyone keeps saying that the good relationship was an illusion, but it's just not true. How can anyone say so after reading few of my confused posts online? People are not perfect and my wife has this problem. She hurt me deeply by it and may do so in the future. Maybe getting a divorce really is the best for me. But we had good times together nevertheless, I know she loves me now and I know she loved me when she did it. Believe it or not, but it's the truth.

I don't think she cheated on me because of me. She cheated because that's how she is. I don't think it tells anything about me that my wife is a cheater. People tend to call me a doormat and a cuckold for even considering staying with her, but why is it so wrong? It really is possible that staying with her is a bad decision, but maybe it's not. Apart from the cheating we are very compatible and we understand each other really well, if she managed to change (a big if I know) we could still have a good relationship. Despite how it might seem, she really gave a lot to the relationship. Apart from this I can trust her on pretty much everything. But of course cheating is a major issue.

I did some mistakes in my life too and I hurt my mother a lot. I never wanted to hurt her, but I did as a consequence of who I was at the time. I couldn't blame her if she stopped all contact with me at one point, but she didn't and I'm very grateful to her for that. I managed to change ad I don't know if I could have done that without my family. This is of course a different situation, you don't choose your kids, but you choose your wife. But still it makes me able to see the whole issue from her eyes too. I know that you can hurt people you care about even though you don't want to. I know that even good people sometimes do bad things. You may all be right that staying with my wife is a bad choice. But I believe that she's a not bad person and that she does care about me. I understand that I may not seem so from what I've written, but it's the truth. 

When I look at this post: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...tam-cwi-newbies-please-read-3.html#post498294, she really shows all signs of true remorse. I've been also reading Not "Just Friends" and the chapter about whether the marriage is worth saving, I'd say it might be. 

And no, I wasn't abused as a child and I'm pretty sure neither was she.


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## Lostinthought61

lam, 
i hear what your saying...i get that you love your wife, i get that your hurting as well (and rightly so) and i hear your human...got that...let's move be on that...the question on the table is where do you go from here...frankly i see only three options and only three everything else is a derivative of. 
1. option 1 you divorce and move on with your life
2. option 2 live with the fact your wife will never stop cheating on you...live with the fact you will be cuckold, you will live the life of a man that will never get the full respect of his wife and yourself..but you also can't ***** about it any more because that is the life you chose. 
3. option 3 if your marriage is strong enough then open it....you are allow to have girls on the side....but i bet that she will go crazy when your with someone else...she will try to stop you from doing so. 

those are pretty much it...pick one or one will picked for you. 
Good Luck


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## ButtPunch

What are you looking for Lambda. It is very clear that you cannot accept that your marriage is over and your wife is a serial cheat. Not one poster has agreed with you. We see a lot of Betrayed Spouses here on TAM who refuse to accept the facts. We know....it's hard to let go. 

I suggest you put in some counter measures if you have decided to stay. VAR's, keyloggers, gps etc. and when you catch her again you can come back and we will give you the same advice we are giving you now. RUN!

In the meantime, DO NOT GET HER PREGNANT!


----------



## convert

lambdabetagamma said:


> It's not like when she told me, I said it's ok I forgive you. Both times after she told me I was devastated and we were having a rough time. The second time, we really didn't know if the marriage will last and she knows now that I'm really thinking about divorce. I told her I may be able to forgive her, but that I couldn't bear her doing it again. We probably should have dealt with it more the first time she did it, but at the time, although it was hard for me, I didn't see it as an end of the world.
> 
> I know that she may do it again and that's the main reason why I'm thinking about ending it. You guys are right that this is something that can't be easily forgotten. That's why I came here for advice 4 months after she told me.
> 
> She really wanted to promise me that she wouldn't do it again, but she couldn't honestly do it. My wife is not stupid and she sees the same thing I see and you see - that if she has done it so many times in the past she may do it in the future. She didn't tell me she will do it again, she said she will do her best not to and that she wants to work on herself. If she made a promise we both would know it's a false promise because no matter how much she wants to at that moments, neither of us knows, if she can keep it. She was at least able to promise me that if it happens again, she will tell me next time so that I can divorce her (her words). I think she fully realizes how wrong it was. She admits she has a problem and she is willing to work on it. She gave me her passwords and would be willing to go to a couples therapy.
> 
> To me what she did is really bad, but not as bad as if she was involved in a long-term romantic affair. She cheated to many times so I'm not able to brush it of as a mistake. It definitely bothers me a lot. But she did not cheat at every possible opportunity like some people are saying here and while she did cheat a few months after the wedding, that was after 5 years of close relationship with no cheating. Is her kind of cheating really so bad that no kind of reconciliation is possible? She did cheat quite a few times, but we only discussed it twice and only now properly.
> 
> Is it really a problem of self-respect? Is it really so weird that after so many good times together, I'm unwilling to throw it all away? Everyone keeps saying that the good relationship was an illusion, but it's just not true. How can anyone say so after reading few of my confused posts online? People are not perfect and my wife has this problem. She hurt me deeply by it and may do so in the future. Maybe getting a divorce really is the best for me. But we had good times together nevertheless, I know she loves me now and I know she loved me when she did it. Believe it or not, but it's the truth.
> 
> *I don't think she cheated on me because of me. She cheated because that's how she is*. I don't think it tells anything about me that my wife is a cheater. People tend to call me a doormat and a cuckold for even considering staying with her, but why is it so wrong? It really is possible that staying with her is a bad decision, but maybe it's not. Apart from the cheating we are very compatible and we understand each other really well, if she managed to change (a big if I know) we could still have a good relationship. Despite how it might seem, she really gave a lot to the relationship. Apart from this I can trust her on pretty much everything. But of course cheating is a major issue.
> 
> I did some mistakes in my life too and I hurt my mother a lot. I never wanted to hurt her, but I did as a consequence of who I was at the time. I couldn't blame her if she stopped all contact with me at one point, but she didn't and I'm very grateful to her for that. I managed to change ad I don't know if I could have done that without my family. This is of course a different situation, you don't choose your kids, but you choose your wife. But still it makes me able to see the whole issue from her eyes too. I know that you can hurt people you care about even though you don't want to. I know that even good people sometimes do bad things. You may all be right that staying with my wife is a bad choice. But I believe that she's a not bad person and that she does care about me. I understand that I may not seem so from what I've written, but it's the truth.
> 
> When I look at this post: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...tam-cwi-newbies-please-read-3.html#post498294, she really shows all signs of true remorse. I've been also reading Not "Just Friends" and the chapter about whether the marriage is worth saving, I'd say it might be.
> 
> And no, I wasn't abused as a child and I'm pretty sure neither was she.


the bolded part above,---Your own words.

If you are going to stay with her. *Protect yourself*

If there are no kids yet, I would really think hard here


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## azteca1986

Lambda what concerns us is this kind of statement

"But she did not cheat at every possible opportunity like some people are saying here and while she did cheat a few months after the wedding, that was after 5 years of close relationship with no cheating. "

There is no bright side to a wife that cheats so early in marriage. And then cheats again and again. How many times would you let a friend write off your car before you decided it probably isn't a good idea to let them drive it again?

Also,

"She didn't tell me she will do it again, she said she will do her best not to and that she wants to work on herself."

What 'work' has she done after four months?


----------



## lambdabetagamma

LongWalk said:


> If you have an open marriage, the rules are different.
> 
> *No, I don't want an open marriage and neither does she.*
> 
> How many guys were there? You didn't say. Is that because the number is so high, you are afraid people will ridicule you? Don't worry about that.
> 
> *There were 4 guys, 1 of them she had sex with several times.
> *
> What does she see or want in these temporary attachments? Is is sexual, emotional, both?
> 
> *I'm pretty sure it's just sexual for her. She definitely is not emotionally attached to any of these guys now.*
> 
> If she is emotionally connected to other men, I would get out because the pain will be too great if she strays again. If it is just sex, then maybe you can find some compromise in an open marriage.
> 
> Whatever you do, you need to make certain that she respects you.
> 
> *People here keep telling me that she doesn't respect me and that I don't respect myself, but that's not true. She does respect me, but she obviously has issues.*
> 
> Machiavelli is not around anymore. But he would have asked you, do women hit on you often?
> 
> *No, not really. Men hit on her a lot though.*
> 
> Are you overweight? How close are you to the ratio of shoulder to waist that drives feminine desire?
> 
> *I'm not overweight at all. I don't think I'm particularly attractive, but I also don't think I'm unattractive.*


----------



## convert

azteca1986 said:


> Lambda what concerns us is this kind of statement
> 
> "But she did not cheat at every possible opportunity like some people are saying here and while she did cheat a few months after the wedding, that was after 5 years of close relationship with no cheating. "
> 
> There is no bright side to a wife that cheats so early in marriage. And then cheats again and again. How many times would you let a friend write off your car before you decided it probably isn't a good idea to let them drive it again?
> 
> Also,
> 
> "She didn't tell me she will do it again, she said she will do her best not to and that she wants to work on herself."
> 
> What 'work' has she done after four months?


:iagree:

he is trying to look for the silver lining and there really is none

OP how many short term affairs (OM's) were there?
did you even discuss any details?


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## italianjob

The Fact is: 
Will this happen again? I think it will, the fact that your wife said she can't promise this won't happen again means that it will...
So, are you willing to be married with a woman who will sleep with several other men? Are you willing to take the risks involved with that kind of behaviour (STDs, pregnancy with some stranger's child, etc-)? 
If you are willing, go ahead, it's your life.
But don't think she's gonna change and not do it anymore, because that just won't happen.


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## Forest

So "will do her best not to" do it again?

That's not the way serious spouses talk. That's some irresponsible cheater kind of talk.


----------



## Hicks

All the normal "cheater" information does not apply to your situation.

She is not "addicted" to a specific person, she is "addicted" to outside or the marriage casual sex.

She has told you that she can't promise it won't happen again. She cheated becuase it's just how she is.

Whatever her outward attidue is, however nice she is, however good of a wife she is, she is not in complete control of herself in this area. The chances are monumentally SMALL that this will not happen again. And thus you expose yourself to:

-- Raising another man's child
-- A STD
-- Runining the life of your future children by breaking up their home
-- Losing more money in a divorce as the marriage lengthens
-- A huge amount of heartbreak in the future.

I don't know if these risks are worth whatever you get out of your marriage. But I know if I knew that my airplane had a 75% chance of crashing, I sure as hell would not fly on it.

And you have not really considered that it is very doubtful that you are getting the whole truth. Becuase cheating and lying go hand in hand.

Why not get divorced but stick with her as your girlfriend? If she's so great you can have the best of both worlds by doing that.


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## azteca1986

Forest said:


> So "will do her best not to" do it again?
> 
> That's not the way serious spouses talk. That's some irresponsible cheater kind of talk.


That answer wouldn't be acceptable coming from a five year old.

Let alone a spouse talking about fidelity.


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## lambdabetagamma

azteca1986 said:


> There is no bright side to a wife that cheats so early in marriage. And then cheats again and again. How many times would you let a friend write off your car before you decided it probably isn't a good idea to let them drive it again?
> 
> What 'work' has she done after four months?


It sucks that she cheated so soon after the wedding, but really she cheated only after five years of relationship. It's not like our relationship started with the wedding and the wedding wasn't really a big transition for us because we have lived together for most the 5 years before the wedding.

She avoids now the situations where this might happen. She's not blaming the circumstances, but she only cheated in quite specific situations and she really now avoids anything where this could happen.

We have also talked a lot about why she did it and how could she do it to me and she is really trying to find the answers and to change herself. She seems much more confident now that she will not do it than when she told me. Still I don't know and I'm afraid you all are right that she will do it again.

The things is she also realizes that this is who she is, but this is not who she wants to be. She has an incentive to change. She knows this is not something I could put up with and she knows no guy with whom she would like to have a family would put up with this. She knows that if she doesn't change she will never have a family.

She had sex with 4 guys, with one of them repeatedly. I didn't ask her for a specific number, but we have discussed the details and she is willing to talk about them.


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## lambdabetagamma

Forest said:


> So "will do her best not to" do it again?
> 
> That's not the way serious spouses talk. That's some irresponsible cheater kind of talk.


These were not her specific words. The point is, she wants to change and she hates herself for doing what she did. But she also wanted to stop in the past and failed. She's not sure that she will be able. I don't blame her for saying that, but of course it's troubling.


----------



## happy as a clam

lambdabetagamma said:


> Does everyone really think that the marriage cannot be repaired?...
> 
> ...She didn't cheat on me for two years after she told me the first time. Probably she will manage it now for some time as well. But, I don't know if she can manage it for the rest of her life. She doesn't know either and she never promised me that she will never do it again. *I know right now she really wants to be faithful, but I don't know if she will manage forever and neither does she.*
> 
> And yes *she told me to have sex with someone too* so that we get even. However, I don't think that would help the marriage in any way.


Lambda... this "not knowing whether she will cheat again or not" is just nonsensical in a loving, committed relationship.

Presumably when you are in a committed relationship with someone you are there because, more than anything in the whole world, you want to be with that person. Loving someone wholly and fully doesn't leave room for b*nging someone else on the side.

In my relationship, the sun rises and sets on my SO. When we're apart, I find myself thinking about him, can't wait 'til he gets home, can't wait to see him, touch him. I yearn for him physically when we're apart. These feelings leave NO ROOM for wanting to be with another guy. In fact, the thought of being with someone else nearly repulses me -- that's how "into" my man I am. And I'm not blind; I recognize when other men are attractive; it's just that NONE of them are remotely appealing because of the way I feel about my SO.

Does she feel that way about you? I don't think so. Not only has she already cheated on you, she's thinking about FUTURE cheating WITH PEOPLE SHE HASN'T EVEN MET YET!!! Honestly Lambda, how much sense does that make?

I can't fathom cheating right here, right now, with REAL men; let alone fathom cheating with "future" men who I haven't even met yet.

Your wife is broken and has unresolved sexual issues she needs to deal with. She has demonstrated that she is incapable of resisting sexual urges when it comes to other men. What kind of person does that? I'll tell you who -- someone who has never felt the kinds of feelings I described above (she has no empathy -- is she a narcissist? who knows?) 

And if she truly loved you the way she should, she would NEVER tell you to go out and have sex with someone else. I understand revenge affairs, but as you've pointed out, it really wouldn't make you feel better or be helpful for the marriage.

I think it's time to pull the plug on this. No kids, you're still young, she's a serial cheater... move on.


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## Hicks

There's not much you can say that will convince anyone (except yourself) that staying married to her is a good idea.


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## azteca1986

lambdabetagamma said:


> The things is she also realizes that this is who she is, but this is not who she wants to be. She has an incentive to change.* She knows this is not something I could put up with *and she knows no guy with whom she would like to have a family would put up with this. She knows that if she doesn't change she will never have a family.


How does she know this? You _are_ putting up with it. I can not believe you're considering starting a family with a woman who can't promise to be faithful in light of her past behaviour. Neither of you took marriage seriously it seems. For the love of God, don't make the same mistake when/if you start a family.

Working on why she is the way she is does not involve having cosy chats with you. Is she seeking professional help? What is SHE reading?


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## lambdabetagamma

But it's not true that she wants now to have sex with guys in the future. She doesn't want to, but she's not sure if she can keep the promise. And she's not sure because she knows that if she didn't control herself in the past, she might not be able to control in the future. 

And as for me having sex with someone else, I also realize that it wouldn't help anything. I don't think she would be happy at all about me doing that, she just saw it as a way how I could punish her for what she did.


----------



## italianjob

lambdabetagamma said:


> These were not her specific words. The point is, she wants to change and she hates herself for doing what she did. But she also wanted to stop in the past and failed. She's not sure that she will be able. I don't blame her for saying that, but of course it's troubling.


Look, lambda, you don't have to convince anyone.
If I was in your shoes I wouldn't stay in the marriage. None of the people who posted here would.

You know what risks are involved, we pointed them out to you.

You are a grown man, you can do what you think it's best for you.


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## toonaive

Married only 3 years? You are still young. She most definately will cheat on you again. KNOW THIS! File for divorce. You need to end your fraud of a marriage. Upgrade.


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## convert

lambdabetagamma said:


> But it's not true that she wants now to have sex with guys in the future. She doesn't want to, but she's not sure if she can keep the promise. And she's not sure because she knows that if she didn't control herself in the past, she might not be able to control in the future.
> 
> And as for me having sex with someone else, I also realize that it wouldn't help anything. I don't think she would be happy at all about me doing that, she just saw it as a way how I could punish her for what she did.


Well if you stay and have kids marriage is only going to get harder with more stress and day to day life.
This means you are going to have to be a warden and watch every move, It is no life to live believe me it sucks.

even my WW told me she promised to never cheat again.... but then again that statement is coming from my WW, so i am not sure it holds much water


----------



## lambdabetagamma

azteca1986 said:


> How does she know this? You _are_ putting up with it. I can not believe you're considering starting a family with a woman who can't promise to be faithful in light of her past behaviour. Neither of you took marriage seriously it seems. For the love of God, don't make the same mistake when/if you start a family.
> 
> Working on why she is the way she is does not involve having cosy chats with you. Is she seeking professional help? What is SHE reading?


We talked a lot yesterday, I told her that I don't know if I can continue the relationship. She knows a divorce is very possible now. She knows how I feel and she knows I definitely don't want to live in a relationship where I'm being constantly cheated on.

She's not reading anything (you got any recommendations?) and I agree that seeking professional help would be good. But at least she's seriously thinking about what she did and why she did it. I'm going to see a therapist tomorrow. If I decide that I will at least try to continue in the relationship, then we would go to couples therapy. We are not going to start family now, but we were planning to before. It's extremely sad for both of us that we can't do that now.

You are probably right that she didn't take the marriage seriously enough.


----------



## happy as a clam

lambdabetagamma said:


> But it's not true that she wants now to have sex with guys in the future. She doesn't want to, but *she's not sure if she can keep the promise.* And she's not sure because she knows that if she didn't control herself in the past, she might not be able to control in the future.


I think you're missing the point of my post. If she felt about you the way she SHOULD feel about you in a loving, committed relationship, there would be no doubt she could keep her promise and be faithful to you. As I stated before, when the correct feelings are there, there is NO ROOM for someone else to come along and tempt you.

So even if she doesn't WANT to cheat, the fact that she thinks she MIGHT still cheat tells you all you need to know about her feelings. It just goes round and round in circles. "I don't wanna cheat on you, but I MIGHT cheat on you, but I don't wanna cheat on you, but I MIGHT...." And on and on.


----------



## lambdabetagamma

happy as a clam said:


> I think you're missing the point of my post. If she felt about you the way she SHOULD feel about you in a loving, committed relationship, there would be NO DOUBT she could keep her promise and be faithful to you. As I stated before, when the correct feelings are there, there is NO ROOM for someone else to come along and tempt you.
> 
> So even if she doesn't WANT to cheat, the fact that she thinks she MIGHT still cheat tells you all you need to know about her feelings. It just goes round and round in circles. "I don't wanna cheat on you, but I MIGHT cheat on you, but I don't wanna cheat on you, but I MIGHT...." And on and on.


You may be right, I thought we have that kind of relationship and so did she. For a time.


----------



## badmemory

lambdabetagamma said:


> *She does care about the marriage.* And there are *consequences* to her actions, *she knows the marriage may end* and she knew it even when she told me.


Consequences? Did you expose her to her family and your family? Did you expose her AP's? Did you make her get an STD test? Did you insist she write down a time line of her A's?

She "knows" the marriage may end? I don't think she believes that; but even if she does, what does that tell you about how much she "cares" about the marriage? 



lambdabetagamma said:


> she really shows all signs of true remorse.


She does not. It is impossible to be remorseful when you look your BS in the eye and tell them you can't promise you won't cheat again.


----------



## azteca1986

lambdabetagamma said:


> She's not reading anything (you got any recommendations?)


I've heard After the Affair: Healing the Pain and Rebuilding Trust When a Partner Has Been Unfaithful, 2nd Edition: Janis A. Spring: 9780062122704: Amazon.com: Books has been very useful to many on here. 

See, she had the affairs. She's the one who should be moving heaven and earth to find out why. She should be the one going to counselling to find out why. She isn't doing anything more than talking.

If you do couples counselling, than find one that specialises in post-infidelity relationships.


----------



## lambdabetagamma

badmemory said:


> Consequences? Did you expose her to her family and your family? Did you expose her AP's? Did you make her get an STD test? Did you insist she write down a time line of her A's?
> 
> She does not. It is impossible to be remorseful when you look your BS in the eye and tell them you can't promise you won't cheat again.


I know when her A's occurred. I did not expose her to her family, maybe I should have. I will talk about this with my family soon.

All the point of the true remorse in that link are present. She herself doesn't know what caused her to cheat, she cannot make the promise. When we talked about it now, she really seemed much more confident about it.


----------



## lambdabetagamma

azteca1986 said:


> I've heard After the Affair: Healing the Pain and Rebuilding Trust When a Partner Has Been Unfaithful, 2nd Edition: Janis A. Spring: 9780062122704: Amazon.com: Books has been very useful to many on here.
> 
> See, she had the affairs. She's the one who should be moving heaven and earth to find out why. She should be the one going to counselling to find out why. She isn't doing anything more than talking.
> 
> If you do couples counselling, than find one that specialises in post-infidelity relationships.


Thanks. We have been reading the Not "Just Friends" book. I will look into that one. Maybe she could benefit from counseling too. She would go if I asked her.


----------



## badmemory

lambdabetagamma said:


> All the point of the true remorse in that link are present.


Will a mod or someone else add, "Promises to remain faithful", to the signs of true remorse link? Thanks in advance.


----------



## lambdabetagamma

badmemory said:


> Will a mod or someone else add, "Promises to remain faithful", to the signs of true remorse link? Thanks in advance.


I get your point, but if she did promise she's going to be faithful, you would anyway tell me that's she's not going to keep her promise.


----------



## azteca1986

lambdabetagamma said:


> Thanks. We have been reading the Not "Just Friends" book. I will look into that one. Maybe she could benefit from counseling too. She would go if I asked her.


Insist that she goes. She's the one who doesn't know why she cheats. She needs professional help.


----------



## stunned

Lambda, we're now at over 100 posts featuring numerous people who have been through situations similar to yours. NOT ONE agrees with you. NOT ONE sees whatever "logic" you're seeing from your wife. NOT ONE agrees with how you are handling this. We do not speak only from our individual situations, but also from countless other threads like yours where the betrayed spouse makes bad decisions based on emotion and not rational thought. I really don't know what else we can do to help you here. You have been given lots of very similar advice from experienced people and you refuse to take any of it. 
You never did answer - have you looked at her call and text logs? facebook? email? You say she's not cheating right now, but you don't really know. She says it was 4 guys and whatever. How do you know this is true? Cheating spouses tend to admit only to what will seem rational and acceptable. It's not unreasonable to think it was 3-4 times that many over a longer period, and not just when you or her are out of town. 
You do not hold her accountable. You are not monitoring her to be sure she's actually telling the truth now. What you are doing is setting yourself up for irrecoverable heartbreak when she either cheats again (which she will), or you find out that she never stopped cheating and what she has done in the past is 10x worse than she has admitted.


----------



## anchorwatch

She has very loose or no boundaries around men! 

You have very little boundaries about how you will be treated. Very weak, very co-dependent, very little self-respect. No wonder she has little respect towards you. 

I don't know if you can help your marriage. You really don't have one. I do know you can turn yourself around and give yourself a life you deserve. You should be your first priority. Put your M on hold for now. Start working on you. Once you figure that out, see what you want in an M, and if you can have that in this one or not. 

Here are some books to start.

No More Mr Nice Guy, Robert Glover

Boundaries in Marriage, Henry Cloud

Dr. Shirley Glass - NOT "Just Friends"

And IC for both of you!!!

Best


----------



## badmemory

lambdabetagamma said:


> I get your point, but if she did promise she's going to be faithful, you would anyway tell me that's she's not going to keep her promise.


Yes I would, but that's because she's a serial cheater. If she was *truly* remorseful, that would improve the chances of her staying faithful; but don't try to make us believe she is. Most of us here know what a remorseful WS looks like.


----------



## lambdabetagamma

She gave me her passwords, so I can check it now. Maybe she did lie, but what she admitted to was a lot anyway, if she lied she had no reason to admit to so much and she didn't have to admit anything in the first place.

I know it doesn't sound like that, but I'm taking your advice seriously. I really now seriously think about divorce. It wasn't easy for me to accept that, but I guess I have to. We have been dating since I was 19, I spent most of my adult life with her and we have been really close this whole time. A divorce will mean to start pretty much completely anew, which is scary, but not so bad perhaps. But I got so used to having someone by me and having someone I can rely on and that is going to be terrible to break.


----------



## italianjob

lambdabetagamma said:


> She gave me her passwords, so I can check it now. *Maybe she did lie, but what she admitted to was a lot anyway,* if she lied she had no reason to admit to so much and *she didn't have to admit anything in the first place.*
> I know it doesn't sound like that, but I'm taking your advice seriously. I really now seriously think about divorce. It wasn't easy for me to accept that, but I guess I have to. We have been dating since I was 19, I spent most of my adult life with her and we have been really close this whole time. A divorce will mean to start pretty much completely anew, which is scary, but not so bad perhaps. But I got so used to having someone by me and *having someone I can rely on *and that is going to be terrible to break.


1st bold- why do you keep on minimizing everything (she cheated but at least she told me, the bolded sentence, etc.)
2nd bold- another question would be why do you think she decided to come clean right now after years of cheating? Maybe there's something happening that made it necessary for her to confess, have her and yourself tested for STDs.
3rd bold- It seems quite obvious that you couldn't really rely on her.


----------



## anchorwatch

lambdabetagamma said:


> She gave me her passwords, so I can check it now. Maybe she did lie, but what she admitted to was a lot anyway, if she lied she had no reason to admit to so much and she didn't have to admit anything in the first place.
> 
> I know it doesn't sound like that, but I'm taking your advice seriously. I really now seriously think about divorce. It wasn't easy for me to accept that, but I guess I have to. We have been dating since I was 19, I spent most of my adult life with her and we have been really close this whole time. A divorce will mean to start pretty much completely anew, which is scary, but not so bad perhaps. But I got so used to having someone by me and having someone I can rely on and that is going to be terrible to break.


You never learned how live as a confident independent man. That's why you're afraid to be without her. You don't know you can be fine out on your own. This is also why she doesn't respect you. You are dependent on her to feel good, that's not attractive independent man, not even an equal partner.


----------



## stunned

lambdabetagamma said:


> She gave me her passwords, so I can check it now. Maybe she did lie, but what she admitted to was a lot anyway, if she lied she had no reason to admit to so much and she didn't have to admit anything in the first place.
> 
> I know it doesn't sound like that, but I'm taking your advice seriously. I really now seriously think about divorce. It wasn't easy for me to accept that, but I guess I have to. We have been dating since I was 19, I spent most of my adult life with her and we have been really close this whole time. A divorce will mean to start pretty much completely anew, which is scary, but not so bad perhaps. But I got so used to having someone by me and having someone I can rely on and that is going to be terrible to break.


I get it Lambda I really do. I feel for you. I've been with my wife for over 27 years. Started dating when I was 19 as well. What my wife did was nowhere near as bad as what yours has done, so it was salvageable. However, it wasn't until I took the advice of everyone here, learned how to do the monitoring so she had no recourse but to admit fault, and most importantly, I had to truly be willing to end the marriage - and she had to know that I was willing to end it - for her to fully realize what she was doing and change her behavior.


----------



## lambdabetagamma

italianjob said:


> 1st bold- why do you keep on minimizing everything (she cheated but at least she told me, the bolded sentence, etc.)
> 
> *Because for me these things are important. I doesn't mean ignore what she did, but for me her telling me and me finding out because she'd become suspicious is a huge difference. *
> 
> 2nd bold- another question would be why do you think she decided to come clean right now after years of cheating? Maybe there's something happening that made it necessary for her to confess, have her and yourself tested for STDs.
> 
> *We were planning on having a family, she wanted to give me a chance to get away.*
> 
> 3rd bold- It seems quite obvious that you couldn't really rely on her.
> 
> *Well in many ways I could. But you have a point.*


----------



## SoulStorm

Can you really rely on her? Maybe she can be good with you in all other aspects of your marriage, but what is a relationship without trust?
She is being honest about who she is. A serial cheater. Does her honesty take away the fact that she is just that...a serial cheater?

She should be telling you, " I would rather break my legs than cause you that kind of pain again" But she's not..she's leaving the door open for her to do it again if you decide to stay with her.

That's not a marriage of forsaking all others..that's an arrangement.

If she can't make you feel safe that she won't do it again..then that's a set up for her to do it again and say...I never made you any promises that I wouldn't.
That's what you want? It may be hard to start over, but it may be better to start over if she can't be ALL in with you. It's better to start again than to suffer.


----------



## lenzi

lambdabetagamma said:


> We talked a lot yesterday, I told her that I don't know if I can continue the relationship.


I don't get why you'd even tell her that. It sounds sort of weak and whiney. "I don't know honey, you f*cked all those guys, and you say you might even f*ck more of them if you can't restrain yourself, I just don't know if I can put up with anymore. Maybe I can, maybe I can't, I just need more time to figure this out". 

Either you're going to stay in the relationship or you're going to cut her loose. At some point you'll make the decision and that's it. Why share your indecisiveness with her at all? Don't be so transparent. 

If you think the implied threat of divorce is going to stop her from screwing the next guy when the opportunity is right, well, that's not going to happen. She thinks with her VJ, she likes the strange d*ck, and she's really not concerned about the collateral damage to you. It just doesn't matter to her. The affairs might not have anything to do with you, but her need to satisfy you and remain loyal to you and avoid causing you tremendous pain just isn't in the equation. 

All you can really do is ask yourself if staying with her is worth the cheating which can and will occur from time to time. If the answer is yes, then enjoy your dysfunctional onesided open marriage. 

If not, well then rip the bandaid and go live your life. There are women who will promise not to screw other guys for as long as you're in a committed exclusive relationship. Many of them actually mean it.


----------



## ArmyofJuan

lambdabetagamma said:


> We talked a lot yesterday, I told her that I don't know if I can continue the relationship. She knows a divorce is very possible now. She knows how I feel and she knows I definitely don't want to live in a relationship where I'm being constantly cheated on.


This is good, in a few years you are going to regret being so accommodating to her though. 



> She's not reading anything (you got any recommendations?) and I agree that seeking professional help would be good. But at least she's seriously thinking about what she did and why she did it.


She is not being proactive, most remorseful spouses go out of their way to try to fix things. She sounds lazy, basically "I'm sorry and I'll _try _not to do it again, no promises". I mean really? 

The thing is, she got away with it and even though you talk D I have a feeling she thinks you are bluffing. Doesn't seem like she wants to put any effort into this. Maybe she secretly wants out of the marriage and is sabotaging it on purpose? 



> You are probably right that she didn't take the marriage seriously enough.


Many people don't and the thought of being with just one person all their life is scary for some people, they are afraid they will miss out on things.

I think you should push for a D and see if she makes more of an effort to change between the filing and finalizing stage. You can stop it at any time but she really needs to feel the consequences of her actions, not just talk about it. You'll find out what she is really made of then.


----------



## lambdabetagamma

anchorwatch said:


> You never learned how live as a confident independent man. That's why you're afraid to be without her. You don't know you can be fine out on your own. This is also why she doesn't respect you. You are dependent on her to feel good, that's not attractive independent man, not even an equal partner.


You have a point, but really we are the same in this. She's dependent on me, like I'm dependent on her. Right now, it's her who's willing to do anything to save the marriage, while I'm slowly converging to ending it. And I know I could live independently, but I like married life. I'm not as much afraid of living independently as of throwing everything we built together away. Furthermore, I was happy in this relationship and if it wasn't for the cheating, I could probably be happy in the relationship in the future. I'm a bit afraid now that if I leave her, I'm going to start looking for someone like her, but faithful.


----------



## lambdabetagamma

ArmyofJuan said:


> The thing is, she got away with it and even though you talk D I have a feeling she thinks you are bluffing. Doesn't seem like she wants to put any effort into this. Maybe she secretly wants out of the marriage and is sabotaging it on purpose?


No, I'm sure she wants to keep the marriage and she is really trying her best. It may not seem so, but it is true. She does take the possibility of divorce seriously now.


----------



## tom67

lambdabetagamma said:


> You have a point, but really we are the same in this. She's dependent on me, like I'm dependent on her. Right now, it's her who's willing to do anything to save the marriage, while I'm slowly converging to ending it. And I know I could live independently, but I like married life. I'm not as much afraid of living independently as of throwing everything we built together away. Furthermore, I was happy in this relationship and if it wasn't for the cheating, I could probably be happy in the relationship in the future. I'm a bit afraid now that if I leave her, I'm going to start looking for someone like her, but faithful.


Serial cheats like your wife at least some, have been sexually abused as kids.
Either way she needs ic asap and you need some also.
Good luck.


----------



## lenzi

lambdabetagamma said:


> No, I'm sure she wants to keep the marriage and she is really trying her best. It may not seem so, but it is true. She does take the possibility of divorce seriously now.


Her "best" is screwing some other dude about once every 2 years. Sometimes the best isn't good enough.

From your first post:



lambdabetagamma said:


> At that time I never even considered getting a divorce because I knew she regretted that and that she still loved me.


Dude, she doesn't love you. If she did, she'd have more consideration for your feelings and she'd show a wee bit more restraint. She's comfortable with you, she cares about you.. wait scratch that last part- she really doesn't care all that much about you. She um.. enjoys sharing her life with you to some extent and maybe has fun hanging out with you. That's pretty much it. 



lambdabetagamma said:


> I also know that alcohol did play a role each time, though that's no excuse of course


So the reason you mention that alcohol played a role each time is exactly what? Here let me help.. you're excusing her behavior. Might want to stop doing that. 



lambdabetagamma said:


> Breaking up would be hard because we own an apartment together and share a lot of friends.


Imagine how much tougher it would be if there was a home, and other shared assets, and children (who might not even be yours). 

You're in the frying pan right now, you want to jump into the fire or get on solid ground? You're in a bad place, but it's not going to get better as things currently stand. She's already told you she might not be able to control herself. That's bad.


----------



## anchorwatch

lambdabetagamma said:


> You have a point, but really we are the same in this. She's dependent on me, like I'm dependent on her. Right now, it's her who's willing to do anything to save the marriage while I'm slowly converging to ending it. And I know I could live independently, but I like married life. I'm not as much afraid of living independently as of throwing everything we built together away. Furthermore, I was happy in this relationship and if it wasn't for the cheating, I could probably be happy in the relationship in the future. I'm a bit afraid now that if I leave her, I'm going to start looking for someone like her, but faithful.


Like I said, you don't have to leave her yet. Put the M on hold for now. Start working on yourselves. Read the books I linked. Get into IC separately and figure out why you're both in this place. Then decide what to do about the M. 

You are conflicted, trying to hold on to your idea of what you though it was, and what you're realizing it is. Right now you're in a state of denial. In time, you will admit there is zero possibility of an M until you both figure yourselves out. You're almost there.

Best


----------



## azteca1986

lambdabetagamma said:


> And I know I could live independently, but I like married life.


I mean this with genuine kindness, but you don't even know what it means to be married. Marriage is two people who put the marriage before their own needs. After the first few months you've not had that. You set the bar so low that even having cheated on you repeatedly you are okay with her "I'll try not to cheat, but no promises" response.


----------



## lambdabetagamma

azteca1986 said:


> I mean this with genuine kindness, but you don't even know what it means to be married. Marriage is two people who put the marriage before their own needs. After the first few months you've not had that. You set the bar so low that even having cheated on you repeatedly you are okay with her "I'll try not to cheat, but no promises" response.


But this is not completely true. After the first affair both of us believed that it would never happen again. And we both put the marriage before our needs, unfortunately not all needs in her case. I really don't think it's so black and white. But I don't know if I can get over it and I'm afraid that trusting that she will do it again is a bad idea no matter what she does.


----------



## Nucking Futs

lambdabetagamma said:


> No, I'm sure she wants to keep the marriage and she is really trying her best. It may not seem so, but it is true. She does take the possibility of divorce seriously now.


She really is trying her best? Really? Her best doesn't involve picking up a frickin' book? Her best doesn't involve getting counseling? 

What action has she taken? Stop telling us what she said and start telling us what she's done, because words are worthless. Cheaters lie and will say practically anything to keep the flow of cake coming. It's only what they do that counts.

So tell us what she's done to make you think she's trying at all, much less giving it her best.


----------



## lambdabetagamma

So I would say, I have one last question. Do you think that if my wife did all she can to fix herself including therapy and if we reached some kind of conclusion, where we could believe that she really change herself and not cheat anymore, that the marriage may be worth saving? It might seem like I'm the only one interested in saving it, but she really is too. The other issue is that I don't know if I even want to save it, but that's something I have to decide for myself.


----------



## Nucking Futs

lambdabetagamma said:


> So I would say, I have one last question. Do you think that if my wife did all she can to fix herself including therapy and if we reached some kind of conclusion, where we could believe that she really change herself and not cheat anymore, that the marriage may be worth saving? *It might seem like I'm the only one interested in saving it, but she really is too.* The other issue is that I don't know if I even want to save it, but that's something I have to decide for myself.


:banghead:

You keep saying this, but what has she done to show it? You must discount the words, without actions they're meaningless. 

_What actions has she taken?_ What has she done on her own to fix herself.


----------



## anchorwatch

lambdabetagamma said:


> So I would say, I have one last question. Do you think that if my wife did all she can to fix herself including therapy and if we reached some kind of conclusion, where we could believe that she really change herself and not cheat anymore, that the marriage may be worth saving? It might seem like I'm the only one interested in saving it, but she really is too. The other issue is that I don't know if I even want to save it, but that's something I have to decide for myself.


No one can see into the future. But we can say *YOU*, not just her, have a lot of work to do to on yourselves to be successful at any relationship in the future. 

Good luck.


More reading for you... 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html


----------



## warlock07

> The other issue is that I don't know if I even want to save it, but that's something I have to decide for myself.


Stop lying to yourself first.

Your wife pities you. Her offers to fix this marriage seem to because she is worried about you.

Why don't you consider temporary separation ?


----------



## lambdabetagamma

Nucking Futs said:


> She really is trying her best? Really? Her best doesn't involve picking up a frickin' book? Her best doesn't involve getting counseling?
> 
> What action has she taken? Stop telling us what she said and start telling us what she's done, because words are worthless. Cheaters lie and will say practically anything to keep the flow of cake coming. It's only what they do that counts.
> 
> So tell us what she's done to make you think she's trying at all, much less giving it her best.


For the past four months, she really put every effort into showing that she regrets her actions that she loves me and wants to save the marriage and that she intends to change. It's not just words, we didn't talk about the affair as much as we perhaps should have to. For example, she's going to go away for a month in January for work reasons and she offered me that she will cancel it if I want even though that would have caused complications for her. As I said before she now avoids situations where she could stray*. She gave me her passwords now (and I didn't even ask her for that). I was reading a book today and she started reading it as well. She genuinely wants to work on it. Counseling is not so common where I live, it's not surprising that she didn't think about doing it.

Which means giving up some of her hobbies and stop seeing some of her friends.


----------



## lambdabetagamma

warlock07 said:


> Stop lying to yourself first.
> 
> Your wife pities you. Her offers to fix this marriage seem to because she is worried about you.
> 
> Why don't you consider temporary separation ?


No, that's not true.

I am considering temporary separation.


----------



## warlock07

Not cheating on you should't be a sacrifice on her end.


----------



## happy as a clam

Her going away for a month in January is a BAAAAAADDDD idea all the way around. Long separation, hotel rooms, bars, alcohol, men.

I would seriously reconsider your "nice guy" stance on this issue. She is not trustworthy.


----------



## lambdabetagamma

happy as a clam said:


> Her going away for a month in January is a BAAAAAADDDD idea all the way around. Long separation, hotel rooms, bars, alcohol, men.
> 
> I would seriously reconsider your "nice guy" stance on this issue. She is not trustworthy.


But I'm not being nice guy. If I tell her not to go, what does it mean? That I cannot trust her at all. What's the point of relationship then? If she goes there and she cheats then that's it. If she goes there and manages to stay faithful, then that's at least an improvement. 

I'm not honestly so afraid she will cheat while there. The trauma is still too fresh. I'm afraid of what would happen in a couple of years.


----------



## lenzi

lambdabetagamma said:


> She gave me her passwords now (and I didn't even ask her for that).


Why didn't you ask for all her passwords? She's cheated on you repeatedly, she's broken promises not to cheat, she can't promise you she won't do it again, you NEED to check up on her. It might be the only thing that keeps her honest, can't you see that? 



lambdabetagamma said:


> But I'm not being nice guy. If I tell her not to go, what does it mean? That I cannot trust her at all. What's the point of relationship then?


She said she can't be sure she won't cheat again.

She doesn't trust herself, therefore how can you trust her?

You can't. You wrote "what's the point of the relationship if you can't trust her?"

The answer is...

Obvious


----------



## tom67

lambdabetagamma said:


> But I'm not being nice guy. If I tell her not to go, what does it mean? That I cannot trust her at all. What's the point of relationship then? If she goes there and she cheats then that's it. If she goes there and manages to stay faithful, then that's at least an improvement.
> 
> I'm not honestly so afraid she will cheat while there. The trauma is still too fresh. I'm afraid of what would happen in a couple of years.


She can go, just not as your wife.
You have gotten great advice here.
Sigh...good luck.


----------



## Nucking Futs

lambdabetagamma said:


> For the past four months, she really put every effort into showing that she regrets her actions that she loves me and wants to save the marriage and that she intends to change. It's not just words, we didn't talk about the affair as much as we perhaps should have to. For example, she's going to go away for a month in January for work reasons and she offered me that she will cancel it if I want even though that would have caused complications for her. *WORDS, NOT ACTION. ACTION WOULD HAVE BEEN PRE-EMPTIVELY CANCELING. * As I said before she now avoids situations where she could stray*. *WHAT THE HELL DOES THAT EVEN MEAN? GIVE US AN EXAMPLE OF A SITUATION WHERE SHE CHEATED THAT SHE'S AVOIDING NOW.* She gave me her passwords now (and I didn't even ask her for that). I was reading a book today and she started reading it as well. *REALLY? SHE'S READING A BOOK NOW BECAUSE YOU WERE READING IT, NOT BECAUSE SHE TOOK THE INITIATIVE.* She genuinely wants to work on it. *IF SHE GENUINELY WANTED TO WORK ON IT, THERE WOULD BE ACTUAL WORK YOU COULD POINT TO AS EXAMPLES.* Counseling is not so common where I live, it's not surprising that she didn't think about doing it.
> 
> Which means giving up some of her hobbies and stop seeing some of her friends.


Excerpted from your first post:


lambdabetagamma said:


> ...Couple months after we got married, she admitted to me that she cheated on me once. It happened while she was away on a conference.
> 
> 4 months ago, she told me that she cheated on me several times over the past year with different guys. It happened when we were in a long-distance relationship for work reasons for 4 months and then again some time after we were back living together while I was away on a conference.


She cheats when you're separated. Mostly one night stands so nothing to find using her passwords. You're now ok with her going away for a month in January.


----------



## Nucking Futs

lambdabetagamma said:


> But I'm not being nice guy. If I tell her not to go, what does it mean? That I cannot trust her at all. What's the point of relationship then? If she goes there and she cheats then that's it. If she goes there and manages to stay faithful, then that's at least an improvement.
> 
> *I'm not honestly so afraid she will cheat while there.* The trauma is still too fresh. I'm afraid of what would happen in a couple of years.


----------



## lambdabetagamma

She gave up dancing for example.

But this is really becoming circular. I get the point you are all making and I really appreciate it. I don't know what to do, but getting a divorce is now a real option for me. 

I think you are not giving her enough credit for trying, but I also realize I cannot see the situation clearly.

I'm going to talk about this with a therapist and with my parents tomorrow. As much as I appreciate your advice, I cannot end such relationship based on advice from internet alone.


----------



## FromEurope

lambdabetagamma said:


> I'm not honestly so afraid she will cheat while there. The trauma is still too fresh. I'm afraid of what would happen in a couple of years.



Ther you go...... here's your answer! you just gave it to yourself!
The question is: ARE YOU WILLING TO SEE IT HAPPEN? AE YO WILLING TO LIVE LIKE THIS? think about it.....


----------



## anchorwatch

*Re: Re: Wife of 8 years admitted to cheating on me, I don't know what to do*



lambdabetagamma said:


> I'm going to talk about this with a therapist and with my parents tomorrow. As much as I appreciate your advice, I cannot end such relationship based on advice from internet alone.


Good for you!!! Great start!

Will she do the same?


----------



## badmemory

lambdabetagamma said:


> But I'm not being nice guy. *If I tell her not to go, what does it mean? That I cannot trust her at all.* What's the point of relationship then?


That's *EXACTLY* what it means! You shouldn't trust her. She has to earn that trust and it takes years and years; and even then you can never "completely" trust her again. One of the consequences she should have accepted; is a re-setting of marital boundaries, accountability for her time, no GNO's.

You setting those boundaries would have shown her that you're being strong and decisive. It likely would have increased her attraction for you.

Look lambda, I give you credit for hanging around and taking the 2x4's. I can assure you that people here simply want to help you and want the best for you. 

It's up to you to take the advice. Good luck to you.


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

lambda beta gamma 


Why you are not aware of "The Alpha"?


----------



## azteca1986

lambdabetagamma said:


> I really don't think it's so black and white. But I don't know if I can get over it and I'm afraid that trusting that she will do it again is a bad idea no matter what she does.


You see shades of grey where none exist. She is not trustworthy. She has a long way to go that she can be trusted. 

But here's another problem that I noticed:


> *She* really wanted to promise me that *she* wouldn't do it again, but *she* couldn't honestly do it. *My wife *is not stupid and *she* sees the same thing I see and you see - that if *she* has done it so many times in the past *she* may do it in the future. *She* didn't tell me *she* will do it again, *she* said *she* will do *her* best not to and that *she* wants to work on *herself*. If *she* made a promise we both would know it's a false promise because no matter how much *she* wants to at that moments, neither of us knows, if *she* can keep it. *She* was at least able to promise me that if it happens again, *she* will tell me next time so that I can divorce *her* (her words). I think *she* fully realizes how wrong it was. *She* admits *she* has a problem and *she* is willing to work on it. *She* gave me *her* passwords and would be willing to go to a couples therapy.


You are totally focussed on her. Where is any indication where she is devastated at the way she treated YOU? That would be the difference between her regret and real remorse.


----------



## Q tip

Trust is earned. 

So far she has unearned it. 

I see zero heavy lifting on her part. 

Zero actions. 

All words. Right now cheaters are liars, so she just keeps the soothing (read smoke) words coming. She gave up vertical dance. So what. What has she done to give up horizontal dance... What actions?

Wow...

The subject is right. You don't know what to do. Man up, it will then be a natural decision for you in this case.

Read MMSLP 3 or 4 times. You've been brought up to please the female. Fraudulently , it pleases no one. It just feminizes you until she is no longer with you in any way. Physically, spiritually, mentally, emotionally. No attraction. Where's her man. He's elsewhere. It's her genetics responding to your upbringing. 

You're probably a nice guy. Great. Read up. She's broken. You may as well improve yourself for next time. I think she's gone. You aren't. That's the issue. She stepped out on the marriage numerous times. Wake up to her message.


----------



## thummper

lambdabetagamma said:


> But this is not completely true. After the first affair both of us believed that it would never happen again. *And we both put the marriage before our needs, unfortunately not all needs in her case.* I really don't think it's so black and white. But I don't know if I can get over it and I'm afraid that trusting that she will do it again is a bad idea no matter what she does.


So, lambda, what happens when she's hit with the extra-marital mating itch again? I think you know that it's gonna happen again. Will you be back here tuning us into your continuing heartbreak? Believe me, we're not interested in piling on you and heaping coals on your head! No, we don't know your wife, but from your description, we kinda know what kind of person she is and what behaviors she's capable of.


----------



## lambdabetagamma

azteca1986 said:


> You are totally focussed on her. Where is any indication where she is devastated at the way she treated YOU? That would be the difference between her regret and real remorse.


She is devastated. Not just because she might loose me, but also because of the pain she caused me. I'm sure I mentioned this before, but none of you believe me.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Lambda, I am sure that she comes across as "really trying to improve" to you but thats because what you are doing is settling for any scraps she throws you e.g. what she did is atrocious and she should not even expect her marriage to survive, so the fact that she is asking you to forgive her and try again, is very telling - she expects you to forgive her.

Some questions for you:


What do you really get from her (besides sex, and I am assuming you get decent sex from her or this really makes no sense) ? Does she impress you, excite you, inspire you ? What ? If you cannot answer this honestly, then you are just scared of going out into what you perceive to be the big bad dating world. And you have become codependent on her.

Why does she seem to have a separate life from you ? She periodically "gives up" things she does like dancing in order to "improve" the marriage. Why does she have all these things that she does without you ? What do you guys do together ? Holidays/travel ? Theatre/concerts ? Sports ? Other hobbies/passtimes/activities ?

If you have a good answer to both these questions then maybe she has a sex addiction or some other disorder. If not, then you two have not really been married. Just living together and maybe FWB.

Thinking about this should make it easier for you to detach (and not in a nasty manner but an honest manner).


----------



## tainted

Invest in an chastity belt. Either for you or her.


----------



## drifting on

Lamdabetagamma

Before I found out about my WW's affair I lurked here to gain ideas for several reasons. I have not told my story here and don't feel qualified to give sound advice as I am almost nine months out from d-day. I usually share parts of my story to help posters make decisions. I am neither for or against reconciliation or divorce. To me that is a decision to be made by the two people in the relationship. I look at your posts and see your pain caused by your WW and the love you still have for her. I felt that way also. If you decide to reconcile you will need to be a strong person and the same if you decide to divorce. 

Currently you are sitting where I did on the fence trying to imagine life with and without her. Your emotions will sway you both ways and you will feel like you are in limbo. Questions I asked myself were would I be happy divorced? Would I have regrets? Can I get past the cheating and be happy again? Is WW making the effort? Is WW remorseful? Is WW capable of heavy lifting? These are a few questions I had for myself. My WW claims this will never happen again. How do I know it won't? Basically WW did everything right and I decided to give one chance. It's a leap of faith on my part that she repairs what's broken inside her. 

We are reconciling and the last two weeks have been filled with rage for me. We are struggling but trying to move forward. It is difficult to say the least and that's with a WW willing to move mountains aside. I am on medication for depression, I used to be very fun to be around. This will change you and your wife. Can you live with these changes? We are in MC and you will need to find a therapist that specializes in infidelity. Either road you choose is going to be painful and bumpy so I wish you the best of luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## thummper

happy as a clam said:


> *Her going away for a month in January is a BAAAAAADDDD idea all the way around. Long separation, hotel rooms, bars, alcohol, men.*
> I would seriously reconsider your "nice guy" stance on this issue. *She is not trustworthy*.


:iagree: That whole situation is one big keg of dynamite with a very short fuse, and I'm referring to her willpower. I can't believe you're not pitching a pluperfect fit over this!  That she would even consider this after what she's admitted to you (including the fact that she can't promise that she won't cheat again) sends up a whole squadron of jets flying bright red flags. Disaster just waiting to explode!!!!!


----------



## Hicks

You are buying into the concept that she has some genetic or pyschological malfunction.

This is controllable behavior. This is something she can control.

And you are being told she can't control it as if she is geneically wired to do this. But what she really means is SHE IS NOT COMMITTING TO YOU TO CONTROL IT.

So how come all the other things she is doing matter? 

If you have a friend who is a child molester, who keeps doing it and cannot promise you he would stop, can you tolerate this one aspect of his personality becuase in all other respects he is a great guy?


----------



## Q tip

lambdabetagamma said:


> She is devastated. Not just because she might loose me, but also because of the pain she caused me. I'm sure I mentioned this before, but none of you believe me.


...we simply do not believe her. Words with zero actions. No heavy lifting. She does not want to loose cake eater status. She knows you so well. Doormatatitis.


----------



## convert

Can you go with her on this month long trip for work?

all the time she cheated were you two separated because of work?

when did she tell you about the cheating?

I hope she didn't come clean just before this trip, sounds a little like she maybe telling you this to relieve her of any guit when she is on this trip and cheats ....AGAIN

I do not like the separation.


----------



## snerg

lambdabetagamma said:


> But this is not completely true. After the first affair both of us believed that it would never happen again. And we both put the marriage before our needs, unfortunately not all needs in her case. *I really don't think it's so black and white.* But I don't know if I can get over it and I'm afraid that trusting that she will do it again is a bad idea no matter what she does.


Dude.

It is black and white.

*PERIOD*

I read through this thread and you are doing everything in your power to justify/refuse to see/not accept her actions

Why?

Have you even come to grips with the fact that you are married to a serial cheater?


----------



## Q tip

Right now, if she goes, she will get laid. Separation gives her a hall pass. I would guess with several other men not just one ons. Several.

If you step up and be the man part of the marriage and tell her hell no, she will not go, but next time for sure...

You seem to be herding cats. Physically and emotionally.

We are all empathetic and provide advice, but it's up to you. It always will be. You seem to be defending your marriage with us, but you need to understand she's done nothing to protect your marriage. 

Not in the past and the future looks the same. Maybe she'll hunker down for a few months, but she will heed her call of the wild. No consequences, so no biggie. She'll Just apologize and maybe start making demands of you to improve yourself. But she's gonna do it forever. She's broken. 

Don't let her ruin your life. You are responsible for your happiness not her. Are you happy with the situation? If so, great. If not, fix it. If she can't be fixed, run before you regret it.


----------



## convert

Q tip said:


> Right now, if she goes, she will get laid. Separation give her a hall pass. I would guess several other men not just one ons. Several.
> 
> If you step up and be the man part of the marriage and tell her hell no, she will not go, but next time for sure...
> 
> You seem to be herding cats. Physically and emotionally.
> 
> We are all empathetic and provide advice, but it's up to you. It always will be. You seem to be defending your marriage with us, but you need to understand she's done nothing to protect your marriage.
> 
> Not in the past and the future looks the same. Maybe she'll hunker down for a few months, but she will heed her call of the wild. No consequences, so no biggie. She'll Just apologize and maybe start making demands of you to improve yourself. But she's gonna do it forever. She's broken.
> 
> Don't let her ruin your life. You are responsible for your happiness not her. Are you happy with the situation? If so, great. If not, fix it. If she can't be fixed, run before you regret it.


:iagree:

That is why she said she cannot guarantee not to cheat, it relives her of some guilt because she was honest


----------



## Q tip

Kind of reminds me of Lucy holding the ball for Charlie Brown...


----------



## lambdabetagamma

manfromlamancha said:


> Lambda, I am sure that she comes across as "really trying to improve" to you but thats because what you are doing is settling for any scraps she throws you e.g. what she did is atrocious and she should not even expect her marriage to survive, so the fact that she is asking you to forgive her and try again, is very telling - she expects you to forgive her.
> 
> *When she told me, she said she doesn't understand why I'm still staying with her. I think she really knew when she told me that it may be the end of our relationship. She didn't really asked me to forgive her. She told me because she felt I have a right to know so that I can decide.
> *
> Some questions for you:
> 
> 
> What do you really get from her (besides sex, and I am assuming you get decent sex from her or this really makes no sense) ? Does she impress you, excite you, inspire you ? What ? If you cannot answer this honestly, then you are just scared of going out into what you perceive to be the big bad dating world. And you have become codependent on her.
> 
> *I get a lot from that relationship and the sex is an important part, though not the most important for me. For me important always was that she was someone I could trust (yeah I know what you are going to say), someone I could rely on and someone who would understand me. She can make me laugh and I can make her laugh. We have fun together. We have same opinions on many things. The physical contact was always important for us. Getting to bed each night and knowing that she is besides me and being able to hug here was for a long time (still is really) so beautiful for us (for her too). It's what made us be able to go through some tough times (studying a difficult school), just knowing that no matter how hard your day was, that she would be there was very helpful for me and for her. Knowing that if I have a problem with something, there's someone I can always discus it with. Knowing that there's someone who can share the life with you - isn't it much better to furnish an apartment with someone you want to share it with, then to do it alone? There's much more really. I think her opinions are similar to mine. Yes, I'm codependent on her, but isn't it the point of marriage? I'm codependent on her and she is codependent on me.
> *
> 
> Why does she seem to have a separate life from you ? She periodically "gives up" things she does like dancing in order to "improve" the marriage. Why does she have all these things that she does without you ? What do you guys do together ? Holidays/travel ? Theatre/concerts ? Sports ? Other hobbies/passtimes/activities ?
> 
> *She doesn't, we do pretty much everything together. There are somethings she does without me (like dancing), but when we are together, we do most things together. If anything the problem is we spend too much time together, not too little.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> If you have a good answer to both these questions then maybe she has a sex addiction or some other disorder. If not, then you two have not really been married. Just living together and maybe FWB.
> 
> Thinking about this should make it easier for you to detach (and not in a nasty manner but an honest manner).


----------



## 6301

lambdabetagamma said:


> She gave up dancing for example.
> 
> But this is really becoming circular. I get the point you are all making and I really appreciate it. I don't know what to do, but getting a divorce is now a real option for me.
> 
> I think you are not giving her enough credit for trying, but I also realize I cannot see the situation clearly.
> 
> I'm going to talk about this with a therapist and with my parents tomorrow. As much as I appreciate your advice, I cannot end such relationship based on advice from internet alone.


 Friend. In my honest opinion, you wouldn't end this marriage even with a family member telling you the same thing we are and they could hold a gun to your head and I think you would still stay in the marriage. 

I really believe you don't really want help. Your blind to your own way of thinking and with that kind of out look, just be prepared for a whole lot more of empty promises and mistrust. You have to live with her, and your decisions no us.


----------



## Q tip

Ok assuming this continues, how are you with an open marriage. How about raising another mans child. STDs. She is risking your health and life with her lifestyle. 

Understand she will eventually meet a guy who will rock her boat and she'll leave you. 

Are you aware of this and thought about it? How do you feel about a life like this. Perhaps she will agree you can do the same. Fair is fair. 

Good luck. I'm out


----------



## OpenEnded

Hmm if she is really so remorseful and committed why don't you bring her here?

Let's hear her side of the story.


----------



## ThePheonix

After reading your post, I've changed my mind. Overall, I believe affairs are indicative of at least a perception of missing elements in the relationship. In your case however, your wife's affairs appear to have generated emotional honesty and revitalizes your marriage from her point of view. In short, she's not willing to make promises of fidelity because her affairs keep her engaged and feeling alive. You've lived with her a number of years, and as much as her infidelity chagrins you, it appears you realize her "indiscretions" help her deal with issues that drain the energy from your marriage and help her restore its vitality allowing her to be a companion to you and give you the feelings of contentment you describe above. 
I realize your situation in not ideal but no one here can give you a magic spell to make her behave different than she does. What I am now suggesting is that you accept what you have, and let her do what she needs to do to keep herself happy, thus keeping you happy. Other than her occasional sexual romp with other guys, you seem contented with her and pleased with what she give you. So far it does not appear any damage is done to her "equipment" and residue of the other guy(s) will wash off.


----------



## bandit.45

If you are going to continue justifying what she does, and don't want a divorce, then I think you should ask her for an open marriage. Realize that just by the mere fact she is a woman she will then have 4x as many partners as you. 

I don't advocate open marriage, but since you don't appear to want to lose the marriage despite how much she humiliates you, open marriage may be your only option.


----------



## Q tip

bandit.45 said:


> If you are going to continue justifying what she does, and don't want a divorce, then I think you should ask her for an open marriage. Realize that just by the mere fact she is a woman she will then have 4x as many partners as you.
> 
> I don't advocate open marriage, but since you don't appear to want to lose the marriage despite how much she humiliates you, open marriage may be your only option.


For Bandit, the ratio is reversed...


----------



## BobSimmons

lambdabetagamma said:


> Yes, I'm codependent on her, but isn't it the point of marriage? I'm codependent on her and she is codependent on me.


No I think you'll find she actually had an affair, so was able to step outside the marriage and do what she wanted.

You on the other hand..


----------



## lambdabetagamma

Guys, here is the cheating wife speaking.
Yes, it seems I am a real serial cheater. Most of the last year I have kept thinking how bad person I am. I truly do think so. I am devastated about my character, how could I hurt my perfect husband so badly? Am I meant for a marriage? Some times I think we should have never got married since it resulted in this. But am I really a lost case to be forgotten by decent people and banished from society? Am I really as bad as this? Sometimes I do think it might be better if I just did not exist.
I did not promise to be faithful till the rest of my life because I wanted to be as much honest with him as possible. Yes I would love to swear on my life I will never do it again. 
I think I was too sure to have him. Now I know better.
When I told him I really did so to leave him the choice to leave me. To divorce me while we're not having kids yet. 
If he leaves me, it would be the worst thing that ever happened to me. Yet I am not trying to bind him using easy tricks. It's up to him now.
I'm sorry it's not a real text, just a mess of messed thought.


----------



## lenzi

lambdabetagamma said:


> When I told him I really did so to leave him the choice to leave me.


I'm having a problem with this sentence. It's sort of a mental tongue twister.


----------



## convert

lambdabetagamma said:


> Guys, here is the cheating wife speaking.
> Yes, it seems I am a real serial cheater. Most of the last year I have kept thinking how bad person I am. I truly do think so. I am devastated about my character, how could I hurt my perfect husband so badly? Am I meant for a marriage? Some times I think we should have never got married since it resulted in this. But am I really a lost case to be forgotten by decent people and banished from society? Am I really as bad as this? Sometimes I do think it might be better if I just did not exist.
> I did not promise to be faithful till the rest of my life because I wanted to be as much honest with him as possible. Yes I would love to swear on my life I will never do it again.
> I think I was too sure to have him. Now I know better.
> When I told him I really did so to leave him the choice to leave me. To divorce me while we're not having kids yet.
> If he leaves me, it would be the worst thing that ever happened to me. Yet I am not trying to bind him using easy tricks. It's up to him now.
> I'm sorry it's not a real text, just a mess of messed thought.


wait....Ok it is up to him if he wants to leave...but if he wants to stay are you going to help him feel safe?

he has to at least feel safe in your marriage. he shouldn't be waiting in limbo for the other shoe to drop, worrying every time you are separated for work, girls-night-out (GNO), who you are texting, when you look at anther guy in passing, and so on. 
This will be with him forever


----------



## bandit.45

lambdabetagamma said:


> Guys, here is the cheating wife speaking.
> Yes, it seems I am a real serial cheater. Most of the last year I have kept thinking how bad person I am. I truly do think so. I am devastated about my character, how could I hurt my perfect husband so badly? Am I meant for a marriage? Some times I think we should have never got married since it resulted in this. But am I really a lost case to be forgotten by decent people and banished from society? Am I really as bad as this? Sometimes I do think it might be better if I just did not exist.
> I did not promise to be faithful till the rest of my life because I wanted to be as much honest with him as possible. Yes I would love to swear on my life I will never do it again.
> I think I was too sure to have him. Now I know better.
> When I told him I really did so to leave him the choice to leave me. To divorce me while we're not having kids yet.
> If he leaves me, it would be the worst thing that ever happened to me. Yet I am not trying to bind him using easy tricks. It's up to him now.
> I'm sorry it's not a real text, just a mess of messed thought.



What you are doing is called cake eating. You want all the perks of being married to him...financial stability, companionship, someone to snuggle in bed with, friendship....

But you want to bang other men because it makes you feel wanted. It rejuvenates you, and most likely you are not attracted sexually to your husband. 

Thing is...you can't have both. It doesn't work. Not on any planet in any universe. Your husband is obviously codependent and needy, which is another reason you have no desire for him. My suggestion is to divorce him whether he wants it or not. Free hi of the burden and torment to being married to a non-monogamous woman like yourself. He doesn't have the strength to do it. Be kind to hi for once and do what needs doing.


----------



## nuclearnightmare

lambdabetagamma said:


> She is devastated. Not just because she might loose me, but also because of the pain she caused me. I'm sure I mentioned this before, but none of you believe me.


Lambda:

OK. I believe you. or at least I'm willing to give you and her the benefit of the doubt at present. what this means then is that she is emotionally damaged somehow. her sexual behavior may be like an addiction for her. Sounds like she is self aware on this to a large extent and that's a good start.

nonetheless you cannot expect, even if she embarks on it wholeheartedly, that IC will heal her from this in any less than a few years, if not longer. Are you willing to forgo parenthood for 3 more years, 5 more years, perhaps indefinitely? is she willing to do the same? Unless you want to set up a whole family - with kids - for severe heartbreak, this is how you'll have toi approach this IMO. If you stay with her that is.

I'm curious, if I may. What country are you residing in? what is your cultural/ethnic background? hers?


----------



## Vulcan2013

lambdabetagamma said:


> Guys, here is the cheating wife speaking.
> Yes, it seems I am a real serial cheater. Most of the last year I have kept thinking how bad person I am. I truly do think so. I am devastated about my character, how could I hurt my perfect husband so badly? Am I meant for a marriage? Some times I think we should have never got married since it resulted in this. But am I really a lost case to be forgotten by decent people and banished from society? Am I really as bad as this? Sometimes I do think it might be better if I just did not exist.
> I did not promise to be faithful till the rest of my life because I wanted to be as much honest with him as possible. Yes I would love to swear on my life I will never do it again.
> I think I was too sure to have him. Now I know better.
> When I told him I really did so to leave him the choice to leave me. To divorce me while we're not having kids yet.
> If he leaves me, it would be the worst thing that ever happened to me. Yet I am not trying to bind him using easy tricks. It's up to him now.
> I'm sorry it's not a real text, just a mess of messed thought.


So, one of our questions for him was, do you have a history of sexual abuse?


----------



## azteca1986

lambdabetagamma said:


> If he leaves me, it would be the worst thing that ever happened to me.


Not your choice to cheat on him repeatedly?

Have you ever considered how easy it is not to cheat?


----------



## Dyokemm

"Yes, I'm codependent on her, but isn't it the point of marriage? I'm codependent on her and she is codependent on me."

Ummmm....NO!!!!

Co-dependency is not a sign of a mentally healthy person in ANY situation.

There is a massive difference between love, respect, loyalty and co-dependency, which involves basing your happiness and self-respect on the presence and actions of another human being.

Marriages are meant to be partnerships between healthy, self-confident individuals who share their lives together.....not between people who subsume their own identities in their partners.


----------



## Mr Blunt

Lambdabetagamma
Your wife is not all bad and it is possible that she can get a lot better. However she does have a very serious character flaw and now she has weakened herself a LOT. I am not a Psychiatrist but her thinking (especially about herself) is really damaged. Even Stevie Wonder can see that!

I know that you are much attached to her emotionally and are afraid to break from her because of the pain and other reasons. You also seem to care for her and want her to get better. I am a BS and have over 20 years of successful R and had lots of rough times but have more good times than bad. My situation as not exactly like yours in that my wife was not a serial cheater and we had three children.

You wanted comments by someone that has been cheated on so here is mine:

1	Your wife is too weak to get a lot better by herself.

2	You are not strong enough to handle your emotions and help her out of her character flaw

3	You need to divorce her or at least separate for a long time.

4	You and your wife need to get a LOT stronger and you are not going to get a lot stronger by compromising and being fearful.

5	You both need a very strong jolt to get you to become more self-sufficient and your wife needs to get to the bottom of her character flaw and prove that she has SIGNIFICANTLY improved that for a long time. Get help with this!

6	You both will have rationalizations or excuses why you do not want to Divorce because you both are too scared and weak to take the bold steps to do the very hard actions.

7	GET HELP so that you can take the very hard action so both of you can get a LOT better

8	If you both do the hard steps and get a lot better you both will be MUCH more able to make the right decisions for each other and will have a LOT better chance of making the relationship work in the future if that is what you both decide.

9	There is NO WAY that your marriage is going to be satisfactory without you both doing the hard actions for a long time.

10	Your choice is for you to get help, do the hard actions now, and have a chance at you both getting back together with a successful relationship, or you can cop out and your relationship will keep getting more painful and you both will be more disappointed and your life will become miserable.

*There is hope for you two but it will require very strong actions of improvement for a very long time. You should also get prepared in the event that you cannot make it together. You are both young, have no children and have a lot of life ahead of you.*

No one person should be 100% of your life or even 80-90% of your life. My brother lost his wife (died of heart attack) that he married when they were both 18. That death was 10 years ago and they had been married for 30 years and had two children! It was very hard on him but he has recovered quite a bit and has a good life. *You have a tough situation but it is not as tough as some other people and they have made it and so can you.*


----------



## ArmyofJuan

lambdabetagamma said:


> *I did not promise to be faithful till the rest of my life *because I wanted to be as much honest with him as possible. Yes I would love to swear on my life I will never do it again.


Then you should not be married, this is a requirement for marriage.


----------



## Q tip

She says she cannot promise not to cheat.

This means:

She guarantees she will. What you say no to, means your saying yes to the opposite. That's how it works. Clever girl...

Take care here, Mrs. - folks can see things like manipulation, abuse, cries for help. They have mercy and can nail you.


----------



## carmen ohio

Kallan Pavithran said:


> lambda beta gamma
> 
> 
> Why you are not aware of "The Alpha"?


What he really needs to be aware of is betabetabeta so that he can avoid becoming one.


----------



## lonelyhusband321

lambdabetagamma said:


> Guys, here is the cheating wife speaking.
> Yes, it seems I am a real serial cheater. Most of the last year I have kept thinking how bad person I am. I truly do think so. I am devastated about my character, how could I hurt my perfect husband so badly? Am I meant for a marriage? Some times I think we should have never got married since it resulted in this. But am I really a lost case to be forgotten by decent people and banished from society? Am I really as bad as this? Sometimes I do think it might be better if I just did not exist.
> I did not promise to be faithful till the rest of my life because I wanted to be as much honest with him as possible. Yes I would love to swear on my life I will never do it again.
> I think I was too sure to have him. Now I know better.
> When I told him I really did so to leave him the choice to leave me. To divorce me while we're not having kids yet.
> *If he leaves me, it would be the worst thing that ever happened to me. Yet I am not trying to bind him using easy tricks*. It's up to him now.
> I'm sorry it's not a real text, just a mess of messed thought.


If he leaves you it would be the worst thing that ever happened TO YOU....

Trying not to be judgemental, but isn't the capitalized "you" what made the problem to begin with?

Far too many spouses think only of themselves and what THEY want.

Think about someone else for a change!!


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## carpenoctem

Couldn't read the last page or two. so please excuse me in case of redundancy / anachronsim:


Lambda:

Your situation has become so warped, that her TRYING hard not to REPEAT her cheating should / would be deemed a special spousal quality.

That is almost like asking her: will you be a good girl, and stop beating your mother?”



At any point in your marriage, if she has had clear and present motivation to lie about her sexual dalliances, *it is NOW.*

Because for the first time in your marriage, you have made it clear to her that you might leave her if she has one more sexcursion.

In view of that, it makes sense to be skeptical whether she will abide by what she is promising you (that even if she TRIES not to cheat again, she will actually TELL you about it if she fails).




Plus, if she is the guilt-thrill trip kind of cheater, *right NOW,* the thrill potential is at its highest. Now, after having been called out and cautioned, if she can do it and get away with it again right under your hawk eyes, the associated thrill factor will be very high.

If this was a movie script that I was writing, I would have added in a bit about YOU sending someone to try to seduce her, as a reliability test – to know whether she succumbs, and if she does, to gauge how much she tries to resist it before yielding.



You truly loathe changing the staus quo, as many of us do. But your status quo with her is far removed from a spousal relationship between equals.

If you and she continue together thus, please factor in:

STD test – periodically, *since you wouldn’t know the need, until she owns up the deed.*

DNA test – in case you have children (please *rethink* x 1000).

Polygraph test – in case you want to get closer to the real number of her mating partners / know whether you have full disclosure (caveat: iffy reliability). And in the future, if / whenever your suspicions get the better of you.



Marriage is a tough mission even without the intravenous infusion of this slow poison – be it the fear of her potential future actions, of memories of her past misdemeanors.

If you decide to brave it, you would need a lot of emotional fortitude, or a reservoir of servitude.

May the force be with you.


----------



## carmen ohio

A few observations, Mrs. lambdabetagamma:



lambdabetagamma said:


> Guys, here is the cheating wife speaking.
> *Yes, it seems I am a real serial cheater. Let's be honest, it doesn't just seem like it, you are a serial cheater.* Most of the last year I have kept thinking how bad person I am. I truly do think so. I am devastated about my character, how could I hurt my perfect husband so badly? Am I meant for a marriage? *Some times I think we should have never got married since it resulted in this. That is a reasonable conclusion.* *But am I really a lost case to be forgotten by decent people and banished from society? Am I really as bad as this? Sometimes I do think it might be better if I just did not exist. But this is the sort of hyperbole that cheaters use to make themselves out to be the victim and only serves to undermine your protestations that you are distraught over what you have done. Nobody has suggested that you should be banished, let alone that you should not exist. Get of your pity pony and start to deal with the reality of what you have done to your husband.*
> *I did not promise to be faithful till the rest of my life because I wanted to be as much honest with him as possible. Did you not promise this when you married lambdabetagamma and, if so, did you not mean it then? Look, we all get it that a promise can be broken. But there is a big difference between some who breaks a promise and someone who refuses to give it in the first place. Lambdabetagamma's proper response to the former would be "shame on you" but, to the latter, "shame on me."* Yes I would love to swear on my life I will never do it again.
> *I think I was too sure to have him. Now I know better. It's good that you've at least learned something from what you've done. Now, do you think that you could learn to be a faithful wife? If not, why should he even entertain the possibility of remaining married to you?*
> *When I told him I really did so to leave him the choice to leave me. To divorce me while we're not having kids yet. How magnanimous of you. But you don't need to give him this choice, it is inherently his.*
> If he leaves me, it would be the worst thing that ever happened to me. *Yet I am not trying to bind him using easy tricks. Oh really? Well, we've just discovered a few of rhetorical "tricks" in your response.* It's up to him now.
> *I'm sorry it's not a real text, just a mess of messed thought. Apparently a lot of your thinking has been messed up. Take this opportunity to discover what it is about you that allowed you to cheat on a man who loves you so much. You have it within your power to become a better person if you really want to be one.*


If you really cared about lambdabetagamma as much as you want him to believe you do, you wouldn't have done what you did. Does this make you an evil person? No. But is does make you a bad choice of a wife. If you would admit that and then take meaningful steps to become the kind of person lambdabetagamma could trust, you might deserve another chance. But, honestly, I don't see this in your post. Rather, I see self-pity, denial and guile and, IMO, that makes you a bad risk as a wife for lambdabetagamma and especially as the future mother of his children.

But I agree with one thing you said: _"It's up to him [lambdabetagamma] now."_


----------



## manfromlamancha

Lambda, you really are trying everything in the book to get the rest of TAM to somehow agree with you - you have even brought your wife here to give us the same bull$h!t she feeds you every day.

"She wants to be honest with you" and that is why she will not commit to not cheating!!!! Really!!! What exactly is her (and your) definition of marriage ? Why not just date - non-exclusively?

Getting divorced would really be the worst thing for HER ???? What about you ?

She is a cake eater and will use and abuse you again and again.

As you can see, the rest of TAM is not buying her brand of drivel.


----------



## warlock07

lambdabetagamma said:


> Guys, here is the cheating wife speaking.
> Yes, it seems I am a real serial cheater. Most of the last year I have kept thinking how bad person I am. I truly do think so. I am devastated about my character, how could I hurt my perfect husband so badly? Am I meant for a marriage? Some times I think we should have never got married since it resulted in this. But am I really a lost case to be forgotten by decent people and banished from society? Am I really as bad as this? Sometimes I do think it might be better if I just did not exist.
> I did not promise to be faithful till the rest of my life because I wanted to be as much honest with him as possible. Yes I would love to swear on my life I will never do it again.
> I think I was too sure to have him. Now I know better.
> When I told him I really did so to leave him the choice to leave me. To divorce me while we're not having kids yet.
> If he leaves me, it would be the worst thing that ever happened to me. Yet I am not trying to bind him using easy tricks. It's up to him now.
> I'm sorry it's not a real text, just a mess of messed thought.



Have you considered that you might not be marriage material or for monogamy ?

I don't mean it in a derogative way. Why force yourself to be someone you are not ? Get with someone who is more into open relationships 

You cheated repeatedly, yet you feel some guilt about. Maybe your feeling towards him is one not of mutual attraction or love but pity, familiarity and safe haven



> If he leaves me, it would be the worst thing that ever happened to me.


Enough of the hyperbole, please. Both of you will happier for it.


----------



## TRy

lambdabetagamma said:


> Guys, here is the cheating wife speaking.
> Yes, it seems I am a real serial cheater.





lambdabetagamma said:


> Some times I think we should have never got married since it resulted in this.





lambdabetagamma said:


> I did not promise to be faithful till the rest of my life because I wanted to be as much honest with him as possible.





lambdabetagamma said:


> When I told him I really did so to leave him the choice to leave me. To divorce me while we're not having kids yet.


 In summary you are an acknowledge serial cheater, that because you cheating is such a given you sometimes think that you should not have gotten married, that you will not promise that you will not cheat again because being truthful you know that you will, and is being truthful with your husband in letting him know before you locked him in with children that he should understand that being married to you means that he must accept being a cuckold. Did I miss anything? I have to give it to you, at least you are being honest about it. He cannot say later that you did not tell him. 

Of course once you have a child together, it will be much easier for him to rationalize staying as your cuckold because he will be able to say that he is only staying for the child; this excuse will give him the cover to be able to look himself in the mirror. As a serial cheater you have found your perfect mate, and have groomed him well in accepting his status. This thread was really interesting to me because I have often wondered how such relationship actually come into existence, and now I know. Again, I commend your honesty in saying it like it is about your cheating with other men and letting him decide if he will accept this going forward and stay. Many serial cheaters do not give their spouses a choice in being cuckolds or not. You are giving him a choice. Now that he knows that you cannot promise not to have sex with other men in the future, I am not sure that it is really cheating when you do?


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## Q tip

His child? What are the chances of that. He'll have to DNA test at the child's birth to avoid his name as father on the birth cert.


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## ThePheonix

lambdabetagamma said:


> Guys, here is the cheating wife speaking.
> Yes, it seems I am a real serial cheater. Most of the last year I have kept thinking how bad person I am. I truly do think so. I am devastated about my character, how could I hurt my perfect husband so badly? Am I meant for a marriage? Some times I think we should have never got married since it resulted in this. But am I really a lost case to be forgotten by decent people and banished from society? Am I really as bad as this? Sometimes I do think it might be better if I just did not exist.
> I did not promise to be faithful till the rest of my life because I wanted to be as much honest with him as possible. Yes I would love to swear on my life I will never do it again.
> I think I was too sure to have him. Now I know better.
> When I told him I really did so to leave him the choice to leave me. To divorce me while we're not having kids yet.
> If he leaves me, it would be the worst thing that ever happened to me. Yet I am not trying to bind him using easy tricks. It's up to him now.
> I'm sorry it's not a real text, just a mess of messed thought.


To Mrs. Lambda

Based on your husband's input, your affairs are psychologically healthy for you and the relationship. They, (the affairs) have helped deal with marriage that's beyond you being able to handled its perceived deficiencies . 
Of course, you have to be honest with yourself and get passed your attitude that you are a lost case. You are rationalizing your husband's hurt feeling by overly criticizing yourself. if you're marriage was in such great shape then there wouldn't be any reasons why you're in this situation. I believe you're doing the best you can with what you've got to work with. Its unfortunate you have the need to seek comfort outside your marriage, but youre lucky enough to be married to a man who would rather tolerate your affairs than lose you. If a future situation blossoms into a short term affair, you can have the confidence it will be without blame or criticism and it will not destroy your marriage while you work to fix the situation.
In the meantime, you need to work on your desire for other men. I also recommend that you not tell him about falling off the wagon. As much as honesty is valued, in your case I think honesty about your affairs does more damage than good.


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## Chaparral

Marriage counseling isn't the answer yet. Your wife has to get individual counseling.

There is a reason she does this. Its the worse thing a woman can do to her man. She does this repeatedly. It may even be some sort of self destructive desire.

What are the conditions is she avoiding now to keep herself from straying?

Have you asked her if she was abused?

Its generally felt that serial cheaters will not change. Its possibly an addiction type of thing. Have you checked out sex addiction?

There are a few cases of serial cheaters reconciling here. The only one I can recall specifically is a frequent poster, "the guy." His wife's betrayal lasted longer with more men, assuming your wife is telling the truth.


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## VFW

lambdabetagamma said:


> I'm going to talk about this with a therapist and with my parents tomorrow. As much as I appreciate your advice, I cannot end such relationship based on advice from internet alone.


Very sound decision. I think that most relationships can be fixed, if both parties work to fix the problem. However, the best estimation of future behavior is past behavior and her track record isn't very good. Nothing has to be set today, take your time, talk to your folks and develop a plan for moving forward.


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## 6301

lambdabetagamma said:


> Guys, here is the cheating wife speaking.
> Yes, it seems I am a real serial cheater. Most of the last year I have kept thinking how bad person I am. I truly do think so. I am devastated about my character, how could I hurt my perfect husband so badly? Am I meant for a marriage? Some times I think we should have never got married since it resulted in this. But am I really a lost case to be forgotten by decent people and banished from society? Am I really as bad as this? Sometimes I do think it might be better if I just did not exist.
> I did not promise to be faithful till the rest of my life because I wanted to be as much honest with him as possible. Yes I would love to swear on my life I will never do it again.
> I think I was too sure to have him. Now I know better.
> When I told him I really did so to leave him the choice to leave me. To divorce me while we're not having kids yet.
> If he leaves me, it would be the worst thing that ever happened to me. Yet I am not trying to bind him using easy tricks. It's up to him now.
> I'm sorry it's not a real text, just a mess of messed thought.


 All in all, how hard is to act like an adult? How hard is it for an adult to know right from wrong, good from bad. How hard is it to be responsible? How hard is it to respect the vows you took? 

They way you conduct yourself tells me that either you plain ignorant or just not a well raised person who only thinks of you being first. 

Sorry to have to say this but you make me sick. You have no feelings for anyone or anything but yourself.


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## ThePheonix

I kinda figure Amplexor will pull the plug on this one any time now.  This old boy doesn't even claim he's from Texas.


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## happyman64

Lambda

It is great that your wife came clean to you.

And I think you are wise getting advice from family and a counselor.

But your wife does not respect you. Because she does not respect herself.

She does not honor her vows nor does she take her health or your health into consideration having drunken sex multiple times with multiple people.

That is dangerous. But worse it is just stupid.

If you love your wife you will seek advice, make a conscious decision between the two of you and act on it together.

And if she loves you she will find a good shrink to find out why she takes these risks with her health, your health and your marriage.

And do not think that she came clean so you can make a decision if the marriage should continue.

What she truly did is put the burden of her guilt squarely on your shoulders.

Now if you love her then hold her accountable. Set firm boundaries on your relationship (counseling for her, monogamy for both of you) and agree on the consequences if those boundaries are crossed.

Good Luck and keep posting. ANd if your wife wants to post tell her to join and post in the wayward section.

HM


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## Pollo

Sorry dude, but part of the reason you have a wife that cheats on you is because of who you are. You are ok with her cheating and she knows that.
You said the first time she admitted it you didn't even think about getting a divorce. Your personality of letting yourself get stomped is part of the reason your wife (who loves to cheat on you) is with you. 

I am the type that would never consider reconciling if my wife cheated and because of that I have a wife who won't cheat on me. you have a very serious problem when you're considering staying with a serial cheater.


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## lambdabetagamma

Thanks everyone for the advice. I really appreciate it and it made me reconsider a lot of things. I realize many of you have experience with similar issues, so I take your advice seriously. I realize now that separation and/or divorce may be the best option for me. At this point I think it's best for me to discuss this with a therapist and with my family. I find it's really hard to explain some things over the internet so now I would like to discuss it more deeply with someone. I'm still not convinced that our relationship was as bad and unhealthy as many people are saying here (the cheating was of course, but apart from that) and this is specifically something I want to discuss with a therapist.

My wife fully realizes she has a problem and she's going to see a therapist too. I think at this point she really is willing to do pretty much anything she can to save the marriage. I don't know if it will be enough, but it's something.

EDIT: And just to clarify, I didn't have to pressure her to go see a therapist. She should have gone a long time ago, but it's not surprising that she didn't go. Where I live, unfortunately seeing a therapist still has a stigma attached to it and it's not so common to go to one. I myself should have gone long ago to see a therapist about my anxiety issues, but it took me a long time to realize that my problems are something that I need a professional help for. That's the way it unfortunately is in our country, but at least it's changing for the better now.


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## Gonecrazy

Mate, first of all I'm so sorry for your situation. I would be gutted if I was in your situation. I don't know what everyone else has said but I see it this way.

You are a man in love and she is not so much in love with you. She knows this and uses that knowledge to her advantage. When she feels guilty she cracks and tells you. She learnt the first time that she cheated that she can get away with it and you will stay, so she will do it again.

You need to leave her immediately. If she gets the whiff that you are going to do a runner, she may accidentally get pregnant and a nice guy like you will then be locked in. You need to learn how to fall out of love with someone and move on. You are being lazy not wanting to leave because of dual ownership of property and friends.

Save your self a lot more pain and suffering because it is only going to get worse. Now that she has cheated with multiple blokes, what is next on her "abuse my wonderfully loyal husband hit list" C*m ga%g [email protected]???? She doesn't care about you. You WILL find another who appreciates you and loves you. Plenty of fish in the sea my friend.

Good luck


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## azteca1986

lambdabetagamma said:


> At this point I think it's best for me to discuss this with a therapist and with my family. I find it's really hard to explain some things over the internet so now I would like to discuss it more deeply with someone.


This is good news lambda. Talk to a therapist about your co-dependecy too. It's not a healthy state of mind. Strangely enough I spoke with my wife about this just a couple of days ago. I explained in the event of her death (or vice versa) would she want me to say "i can't go on without you, etc" or remember my responsibilities to our son. He is dependent on us. We are inter-dpendent adults. That's what you both should aim for.



> My wife fully realizes she has a problem and she's going to see a therapist too. I think at this point she really is willing to do pretty much anything she can to save the marriage. I don't know if it will be enough, but it's something.


Also very good to hear. Consider the marriage you've been living, dead. Work on yourselves.

Best of luck and keep posting; we're a pro-marriage forum (though it may not seem that way sometimes), trying to help each other have healthy marriages.


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## Mr Blunt

> *By Lambdab*
> I'm still not convinced that our relationship was as bad and unhealthy as many people are saying here (the cheating was of course, but apart from that) and this is specifically something I want to discuss with a therapist.



I do not know what your call bad and unhealthy but the bottom line is this. Your wife has a serious character flaw and has demonstrated that she will violate the bases for a strong relationship; that being trust, loyalty, and respect. You and your wife getting help is a positive step but in the end it will boil down to ACTIONS.* Actions by you and actions by her for a long time. That will be what determines your future relationship with her.*

There are ways to find out if your wife has changed enough for you to consider staying with her. These ways are not great secrets and your therapist will know them but many here on this forum know them also. One such way is for her to suffer the consequences of her actions, take responsibility, get help, and see if that motivates her to diligently prove by changing for a long time. She needs to convince you that she is going to improve on her character flaw enough so that she does not devastate you again.* Her actions should be proven for more than a few months. *ACTIONS for a long time are so much more reliable than words and emotions that touch your feelings.


You need to make sure that your eagerness to sooth your pain does not bring you to compromise and take her back before she has proven her loyalty, trust and respect! Don’t be desperate but let actions be what you depend on. Do not let yourself be fooled; your wife is weak and it is going to take a significant amount of time and effort to build herself up enough for you to consider being safe with her. Prepare yourself so that in the event that she does not get a lot better that you can go on with your life without a lot of emotional damage.


You have put your emotional health in the hands of a weak woman that showed you what she will do. It is up to you to decide if you are going to put your emotional health back into the hands of your wife.


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## Q tip

Propose an open marriage. Terms that she tells you everything, and you her.

Since you obviously support this, make it official.

Hope you've got good health insurance.


As they say, if you like your adulterous, cheating wife, you can keep your cheating adulterous wife.


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## donny64

> I'm still not convinced that our relationship was as bad and unhealthy as many people are saying here (the cheating was of course, but apart from that)


Reminds me of the saying "Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

You want it to be good, but it is not. You want it to be healthy, but it is not.

If you were okay with an open marriage, then that would be a different story. But you're not. And the eating away this does at you is NOT good and NOT healthy in any way.

Furthermore, if you continue to do this to yourself, it will quite possibly make FUTURE relationships unhealthy. It will affect you, and you'll become an untrusting, jealous, worrisome partner for someone.

Marriage is not about co-dependency. It is about co-support (love, emotional support, and partnering). HUGE difference. When one person NEEDS another, that is a bad sign. Love my W like crazy, but I do not NEED her. If she crosses a line I cannot tolerate (cheating), I will be JUST FINE on my own. 

She is in my life because she brings good things into it, loves me, and makes me happy. I'm secure in her, and our relationship. The minute she brings this kind of turmoil into my life through her own actions, to a point where I am miserable, worried, insecure about her....she is DONE with me. She knows this. I fully believe without a doubt, she feels the same, and were I to bring her that kind of pain and turmoil into her life, just one time, I do not believe there is anything I could do to get her back. 

Confident people are respected and treated accordingly. Needy, insecure, co-dependent people are not respected, and thus usually used as a door mat eventually. The minute you accepted her "I don't know if I can be faithful" schtick, you became a doormat unworthy of her respect. From that point, it was not a question of if she'd cheat, but rather only when she'd cheat. And how often.


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## donny64

Oh, and I'll say this....

Were my W to cheat...let's say she was out of town for work, got drunk, and had a one time thing. Then came to me with it (or maybe even she didn't and I just discovered it). Would I take her back?

Possibly. I don't truly think so, but it's possible. But she does not know, and never will know that, unless it were to happen. I would never dream of even hinting to her that it was a possibility. And she'd have to walk through hell fire for a long time to even get me to talk to her again. She'd have to work her azz off to get me to even consider reconciliation. If at any point, she faltered, did not put in the work, or slept with someone else during our "split up" phase, I'd be done. For good.

Were there a second time, I'd be done. For good.

Were the initial affair an ongoing affair, I'd be done. For good.

Some "mistakes" can be just that. A one time thing, possibly fueled with alcohol and impaired judgment. Doesn't erase an otherwise long term and stellar history, IMO. But the minute it becomes a conscious and fully aware series of acts and / or decisions....she made her choice as far as I'm concerned, and I clearly do not mean enough to her for her to resist temptation. And THAT is not what I want in a life partner.


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## TRy

lambdabetagamma said:


> I'm still not convinced that our relationship was as bad and unhealthy as many people are saying here (the cheating was of course, but apart from that)


 You saying that you are not convinced that your relationship was bad and unhealthy if you take out "the cheating", reminds me of a famous quote from Washington, DC, Mayor Barry when he was trying to downplay the city's high murder rate (#1 in the US at the time). "If you take out the killings, Washington actually has a very very low crime rate." Jay Leno thought that Barry's comment was so ridiculous that he played it for days just to make fun of it, and he got the laughs. Both statements beg the question, why would you take out "the cheating" or "the killings" in determining how bad it is?


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## leon1

So did you tell her family and your friends about your wifes cheating .And where did she meet the guys she cheated with .


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## ConanHub

This thread should be titled, "Wife of 8 years keeps cheating on me and everything else is fine."


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## IIJokerII

lambdabetagamma said:


> She is devastated. Not just because she might loose me, but also because of the pain she caused me. I'm sure I mentioned this before, but none of you believe me.


Sir, Devastation comes from unexpected results outside ones control. I read later posts where you say a separation/divorce in the works and the best thing for you, however I highly doubt it was your idea or initiated by you. At this point you are in marital indoctrination and she will, if not already, be securing that next tree branch. 

This is not uncommon as you are like the many other BS men out there, a nice guy, and the tears, choice words of regret and apologies are methods to control you. Her going to a therapist and saying she'll do anything to save the marriage are also smokescreen tactics. Think about it, she did everything that would push a normal spouse away, so all of the sudden the shift in marital priority actions are now the focus. 

If Divorce or Separation is in play, now, and I mean right now, is the time to accelerate the process and fight back. If you don't act now, forget the marriage, your life will be upended by her actions even more so.


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## murphy5

lambdabetagamma said:


> Does everyone really think that the marriage cannot be repaired? A lot of you are saying that she no respect for me or for the marriage. I really don't think that's true, she has really done everything she can to save the marriage after she told me (the second time). She didn't cheat on me for two years after she told me the first time. Probably she will manage it now for some time as well. But, I don't know if she can manage it for the rest of her life. She doesn't know either and she never promised me that she will never do it again. I know right now she really wants to be faithful, but I don't know if she will manage forever and neither does she.
> 
> And yes she told me to have sex with someone too so that we get even. However, I don't think that would help the marriage in any way.
> 
> I know I can survive the breakup and I know that eventually I will get over her. But it would be extremely hard for me. Does it really mean I'm too dependent on her? Isn't it normal after 8 years of really close relationship? I know it would be very hard for her too, though perhaps not as hard as for me.



the marriage can be repaired, but it will have to be an open marriage. those often do not work out so well.

what bothers me the most in your history with her...you went to a conference, and she cheated during that. so you were gone for, what, 5 days, and she cheated because of that opportunity? That is not a wife getting horny, getting drunk, and making a drunken mistake. That is a wife waiting patiently for you to go, getting all dressed up to the nines, planning week of fcking, setting it all up, and the minute you leave for the airport her back door man (men?) show up for a ****fest. In other words, for her to cheat so quickly...she was planning it. No denying that she is will cheat again...i mean you might tell her "honey, i have to go to the supermarket for food" and she replies "great dear, exactly_ WHEN_ will you get back...?"


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## murphy5

loyallad said:


> Lambda do you read what you put on here? She didn't promise because she simply wasn't sure she could keep the promise. Okay let me say this, if she can't promise to be faithful to you then she doesn't, hasn't and will not ever love you.


i disagree. She may well love you very much. But she also loves her other lovers. She loves many men. that is who she is. 

What was her upbringing like? Is her mother a serial cheater too? where did she learn this stuff. Cancel any Cosmo subscriptons for sure.


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## murphy5

lambdabetagamma said:


> For example, she's going to go away for a month in January for work reasons and she offered me that she will cancel it if I want even though that would have caused complications for her.


0nly you can decide if you want to go on with the marriage. But her going away for a month is a bad idea, you know this in your gut right? Until she has done some serious counseling, she will likely go bar hopping during this month. at the very least, tell her she would have to skype you every night she is gone.....just so your face can remind her that she is married.


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