# Divorce not final, but she leaves with the kids on a ski trip with her new boyfriend and his kids, wtf



## ben406 (11 mo ago)

My first post, and I'm not sure what will come out of this... But, I'm at a loss for where to turn. 

Soon to be ex and I were/are married 12 years and have two kids together, 6 & 8. A very long and incredible story, but in the end we separated, physically, not legally, a year ago, and she moved overseas with the kids and her mother, who is bonkers. All her idea. Also, while blackmailing me with her stepfather's status in the legal world as director of a large law firm. Its been a very tough year, trying to deal with seeing my kids, paying their bills, vacation time, selling our home, etc.... The most recent visit was to Europe with both the soon to be ex and both our kids skiing, for Christmas, where she served me with divorce papers on Christmas Eve. It was a VERY expensive trip for me and ate up all my vacation time... she's not worked more than 20hrs a week since we've been married. Also, we met on a chairlift, so its a special thing with the family that we've been talking up for years.

Now, she's leaving with her new boyfriend, his kids, and my kids, today... to the same area... and only having met him two months ago. I'm devastated. 

I'm dealing with a triple-cross-country law system, as we were married in the Caribbean, and her new stepfather is far too well connected to fight it. I'd go bankrupt.

I guess I'm just seeking some kind of support as to how I deal with this internally. No saving the marriage, but I'm still getting goosebumps when I talk to her. Conversations with the kids are terrible as I'm in the middle of my workday as they're eating dinner and at the end of their ropes. Only see them for a few times a year, and use any savings I've got to do so. And, that doesnt look like it will change. Her visa overseas doesnt allow her to work, so child support is insane. I've got a great job and still have to pinch pennies to pay her rent. 

I'm able to flip the switch for work and take out some anger at the gym, but any alone time is just consumed with this. The next week looks pretty rough.


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## redmarshall (11 mo ago)

Oh wow, I'm sorry to see the hand you've been dealt. Its obviously unfair, but life often is. What I will say to you is that you seem to be coping well in the overall scheme of things, and even what comes across in your writing is that you're not bitter, and your attitude is anything but that. In fact your attitude seems quite positive and you're looking forward, and not back. I know things are bleak when it comes to how you're feeling, because you can't just shut your emotions down, but if there is anything I've learnt, nothing lasts forever(little by little you'll recover). 

This process(divorce) has to be undergone, you will have to distance yourself and start devoting some time to rebuilding your life in whatever you can, whether its a hobby you want to start, meet new people. Try and get yourself in that frame of mind. And take it a day at a time, and don't put so much pressure on yourself. This too WILL pass. And in the end I think you'll be better for it.


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## ben406 (11 mo ago)

I’m very appreciative, but am also concerned that masking my emotions is ultimately keeping me from moving forward. I manage a large construction company and do it well by dampening all of the drama around me, and internally. The same restraint and forward thinking seen in my post. But, then I race to the gym after to burn through as much anger as I can. 
I’ve buried tons of personal pain deep so I can survive in my job. I think that’s what is coming out in writing my post. Positive on the outside, but so much emotion buried within. 
like you said, you can’t block those feelings indefinitely. And, I’m scared at letting them loose. Unleashed, I’d not fare well financially or legally… but the top is going to pop off eventually.
I’m driving between projects all day around town and am constantly triggered by memories of our time spent here or there. 
Has anyone had success in just escaping that and moving? I’m considering just leaving and starting over somewhere fresh.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

How did she get permission to move your kids overseas? Did you agree to it? If so, why on Earth did you? She cannot just take your kids overseas even if her father was the President!!!! Where is she originally from?


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## marko polo (Jan 26, 2021)

ben406 said:


> I’m very appreciative, but am also concerned that masking my emotions is ultimately keeping me from moving forward. I manage a large construction company and do it well by dampening all of the drama around me, and internally. The same restraint and forward thinking seen in my post. But, then I race to the gym after to burn through as much anger as I can.
> I’ve buried tons of personal pain deep so I can survive in my job. I think that’s what is coming out in writing my post. Positive on the outside, but so much emotion buried within.
> like you said, you can’t block those feelings indefinitely. And, I’m scared at letting them loose. Unleashed, I’d not fare well financially or legally… but the top is going to pop off eventually.
> I’m driving between projects all day around town and am constantly triggered by memories of our time spent here or there.
> Has anyone had success in just escaping that and moving? I’m considering just leaving and starting over somewhere fresh.


Yes moving helps. Not immediately unfortunately. Still takes time for the triggers to fade as you get into a new routine. No contact also needs to be implemented.

_Conversations with the kids are terrible. _Why is that if I may ask? 

Sounds like the children are weaponized against you. Also sounds like your wife enjoys making life unnecessarily difficult. Children are always worth fighting for. But how long do you fight with circumstances against you? Do you stop when you are financially broken? Menially? Both?

In my own situation I made a hard choice. I let my child go. My ex was awarded full custody and she liked to play many games especially where visitation was concerned. The court in my case did not enforce a father's right to visitation. At the time of my separation and divorce my child was only months old and would have no memory of me. Much like yourself I was pressed for resources to fight not that I think it would have mattered because the law in general was in my former wife's favor. With all these factors in play I made the choice to let the child go completely. Not out of spite or anger but for practical reasons - ex wife combative and manipulative, no guarantee I would see the child if I made arrangements to and no legal recourse. Also I wished to retain my sanity where there seemed little to be had. 

It was not an easy decision to make any more than moving on was. I grieved as if I had lost my child in death. Shortly after our divorce completed my ex wife married her affair partner. He adopted my child. Legally it meant that I would not be recognized as the child's father in any way. Even if I had chosen to fight it would have all been for nothing. If I had attempted to stay in the child's life after the adoption the law could have further been applied against me as if I were a complete stranger to the child. 

You do have choices but they are far from ideal. 

You are not alone.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

If you're aren't under any child or spousal support orders, why on earth are you paying for her life overseas?

This is what I understand from your posts:

Wife took off overseas with your 2 kids. You aren't legally under any court support orders. However, you are supporting her work-free overseas lifestyle.

WHY?

You need to see an atty asap.

You may not have the power or funds to deal with an overseas kidnapping, but you sure as heck have the power to cut off all funding to her.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

I'll ask again - how did she get permission to move your kids out of the state, leave alone out of the country?


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## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

It doesn't matter where you were married. It matters where you are living. You need to file for divorce in America ASAP!


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## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

In addition to filing for divorce immediately in America you should cut her off financially and demand she bring thr kids back here. Most family law jurisdictions require both parents agreement to move more than 100 miles away.

Also, she's gaslighting you. If her dad is the director of a big law firm...who cares? He probably doesn't know anything about family law. Even if he does, again who cares. Having "connections" isn't going to give your wife an advantage over you.

See a good local family law attorney on Monday, file for divorce, and you can even tell the court she kidnapped the kids and left the country without your permission. Also, cut her off financially 100%. That will give her motivation to bring your kids back.


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## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

How long have you been separated and when did she move overseas?


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Livvie said:


> If you're aren't under any child or spousal support orders, why on earth are you paying for her life overseas?
> 
> This is what I understand from your posts:
> 
> ...


yes, but SEE AN ATTY FIRST!
due to the international issues....this is not a simple legal matter.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

You married in the Caribbean, but where have you two been living together the most the last few years? Wherever you lived is what dictates whether she can move the children away. In the US each state has a pretty small radius you have to stay in with the kids and it is based on where you lived for (usually) 6 months or longer together with the kids. If you have been living in some other country then you need to at least start by googling your laws about custody there. 

Of course you also have to consider if there were any bad marks against you that would give her leverage to remove you from their lives. Such as legal problems.


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## ben406 (11 mo ago)

She moved overseas immediately after Christmas 2020, so 13+ months ago. This was after a rocky year, and a much longer term history of my issues with her mother coming out in our own relationship. The stories are long, and unbelievable, but her mom is the most narcissistic, controlling, and manipulative person I've ever even heard of. Just yesterday, she sent me yet another lengthy email, even though I've not responded to them in years, blaming my 'toxic personality' for the cancerous death of our 10 year old family dog 2 years ago, then accuses me of physically abusing my son, and finally explains how to get over her daughter before telling me what a great guy I am. Insanity. I read them only to get some perspective of what lunacy my kids might be hearing. I managed her real estate portfolio for 5 years while she was in a lawsuit with the governement. It made it to the equivelent of supreme court in London after 13 years in court on a lie, its how she met her new husband, her attorney, and my step-father in-law.

The same issues I couldnt stand about her mother began to surface in my soon to be ex. Her own father even warned me about it, and tried to convince me to leave years ago. Despite all the madness, I tried and tried and tried to get her to understand my perspective on her mom, so did her dad, and her friends, and mine. In the end, my sanity wasnt sustainable with her mother in my life, and I gave consent to let her take the kids overseas. 

I went to marriage councilors, therapists, psychiatrists, and the most experienced attorney i could find on international family law. Spent many hours in their offices laying the entire story out, and once they see the full picture, they've all advised against legal action. For my kids sake. So, I signed consent for their visa on Christmas 2020, and then again on our divorce Christmas eve of 2021. After a long argument, the child support payment was adjusted down to something I could actually pay...barely. Before that it was lump sum for tuition and rent, but I did it because I dont want my mother in law supporting them.

So, I signed over full custody to my kids with the written agreement that I could be with them every school vacation. That sounds well and good if you dont have a job... They are young and cant travel alone, so it makes things tough. So far, I've seen them three times. Flew over there last April for ten days. They all flew here for the summer, and stayed in a tent in my one bdrm apartment. And then I flew over and met them in France this past December. Finances are running out, and I'm out of vacation time. At least she is keeping her end of the deal though. School vacations of a week or less are not feasible for me. 

Communication is tough because they are young and are 5 hours ahead. So, their time btwn school and sleep is the busiest part of my day. They dont enjoy talking on the phone, so she wont force them to stick to a schedule. 90% of the time that they call, I leave a meeting frantically just to speak for a couple minutes. And, I'm in manager mode. Switching gears that quick is challenging. 

Any ideas on keeping up communication with an 8 year old boy and 6 year old girl? I watch top gear with my son and listen to my daughter learn to read. We tried minecraft together, but it didnt end well. These days letters are a week or two to deliver. The last few times I've talked to my son, he's been very quiet, even after a great two weeks together in December teaching him to ski.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

So you effectively gave up rights to your kids??? Because you couldn't afford to make payments to her????


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

manfromlamancha said:


> I'll ask again - how did she get permission to move your kids out of the state, leave alone out of the country?


She didn't need permission to take the kids overseas. She's their mother, and unfortunately he didn't have a court order stopping her. This is a risk when you have kids with someone from another country.

I agree he shouldn't be giving her any money at this point. Legal advice is desperately needed here and depending on the country maybe something can be worked out.

Until then I recommend zoom.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> She didn't need permission to take the kids overseas. She's their mother, and unfortunately he didn't have a court order stopping her. This is a risk when you have kids with someone from another country.
> 
> I agree he shouldn't be giving her any money at this point. Legal advice is desperately needed here and depending on the country maybe something can be worked out.
> 
> Until then I recommend zoom.


I do not know that she is from another country. Is she? All I know is that they chose to marry in the Caribbean and have a penchant for holidays in Europe.

And yes I meant he should have stopped her legally from leaving with HIS kids (she may be the mother but he is the father) and it would have been very easy to stop her legally. 

He had to sign off on their visas which he did in return for reduced payments to the stbxw - he effectively sold his rights ?!?!?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

manfromlamancha said:


> I do not know that she is from another country. Is she? All I know is that they chose to marry in the Caribbean and have a penchant for holidays in Europe.
> 
> And yes I meant he should have stopped her legally from leaving with HIS kids (she may be the mother but he is the father) and it would have been very easy to stop her legally.
> 
> *He had to sign off on their visas which he did in return for reduced payments to the stbxw - he effectively sold his rights ?!?!?*


Oh, I missed that part.

Damn.....that's going to be hard to fight. He needs a lawyer NOW to see if anything can be done. The longer this goes on the more established they'll be and the less any judge is going to want to disrupt the kids lives. As it is forcing the kids to travel internationally regularly is going to be tough on them so he may need to travel.

My guess is that she is from wherever she is now because who's going to agree to reduced support in order to move where they have no roots?

Once again....he needs to start zooming so they at least know him.


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## ben406 (11 mo ago)

There was no trade for any reduced payments, never was. I'm not sure where you got that from. 

The kids are on a UK education visa, which i had to sign off on as their father. She went to live with her mother who was going to support her completely by liquidating the family estate in the Caribbean. The liquidation is dragging out, so I paid for their tuition and for them to move into their own place to at least separate them from her mom. 

Yes, I let them go without pursuing legal action, but not as a trade for reduced payments.

We facetime instead of zoom, and I talk to them a few times a week. More so on the weekends when the time difference is more manageable.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I would give it up and start over in life because you have no choice. I’d stop giving her any money and make HER come after YOU. Spend the money you’re saving on attorney fees. You don’t deserve to be held hostage by a crazy woman. 

you can FaceTime your kids, this abd that. But the reality is that. You’re gonna be some stranger in a distant land. I also think your lawyers gave you horrid advice because they didn’t want the case.
Jmo


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

I will probably get roasted in the "prenup" thread but boy does this one fit! There are too many unanswered questions for anyone to really help you but I know plenty in the legal system. Enough that attorneys actually think I am one. I file motions and subpoenas as pro se, no biggy. You went and found "the most powerful atty".... Uh, they don't actually "assess your case" they "assess your bank account"! You need to find someone else and NEVER fear talking directly with the judge!!! You never NEED an attorney, and taking a poorly worded stab is better than no stab at all. 

Depending on where you were married and where you lived, SHE will need to file something where you are. As others have said, stop paying her a dime, and sidestep any talks about it. Remember all communication is EVIDENCE!!! You need to save everything and start building a case now. 

You are all scared about her step dad. Where does he practice law? If not in your state of litigation, he can't even represent her! Even if, the child support tables were written to avoid ridiculous claims. 

Remember that judges are required to be fair and impartial, unlike an atty that will use every trick in the book to scare you! 

Let me share something with you. I was contacted by paypal's legal team that they were going to sue me for many thousands plus legal fees! I told them to bring it and let's make sure you have the right mailing address!!!! They prey on their scare tactics! I am STILL waiting on that suit in the mail.

I also litigated in a trial against a prosecutor that is now a district judge, and won! I am not saying this to inflate my ego, I am saying you DO stand a chance on your own! Everyone on this forum knows only one path....pay an attorney many many thousands. If you receive a summons, you know what you 'can' do? Just show up! There is actually a LOT of things you really could do with a summons or hearing, but I am trying to keep this simple. If you cannot afford to pay, you do NOT need to get another job! You simply lay that out for the judge in the form of a CS worksheet! 

I can share many tactics that do work in the legal field. One of which I tell everyone is document everything and use only that which helps you. that is their problem if they can't find a rebuttal. Another is to shut your mouth!!!! Too many people simply cannot do this. Your ex is off the deep end like her mom. The smartest thing you can do is if they are dumb and loose with words in text or email, USE THEM!!!! Set a trap and let her walk right through it.


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## MarmiteC (Jun 28, 2021)

ben406 said:


> The kids are on a UK education visa


Is your wife British? Otherwise what sort of Visa is she here on?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

ben406 said:


> My first post, and I'm not sure what will come out of this... But, I'm at a loss for where to turn.
> 
> Soon to be ex and I were/are married 12 years and have two kids together, 6 & 8. A very long and incredible story, but in the end we separated, physically, not legally, a year ago, and she moved overseas with the kids and her mother, who is bonkers. All her idea. Also, while blackmailing me with her stepfather's status in the legal world as director of a large law firm. Its been a very tough year, trying to deal with seeing my kids, paying their bills, vacation time, selling our home, etc.... The most recent visit was to Europe with both the soon to be ex and both our kids skiing, for Christmas, where she served me with divorce papers on Christmas Eve. It was a VERY expensive trip for me and ate up all my vacation time... she's not worked more than 20hrs a week since we've been married. Also, we met on a chairlift, so its a special thing with the family that we've been talking up for years.
> 
> ...


This shouldn't be a surprise to you. It will be hard but do realize you're as good as divorced. Her activities have nothing to do with you. You're only hurting yourself by caring what she does.

Start healing by ignoring what she's doing. I mean, who cares, she's not your W.

Why you aren't going on trips with your gf is what's surprising. Wtf.


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## Trustless Marriage (Mar 1, 2021)

ben406 said:


> Now, she's leaving with her new boyfriend, his kids, and my kids, today... to the same area... and only having met him two months ago. I'm devastated.


Where there are valleys there are hills to come. Ya it sucks to think she can turn around like this and start dating someone so soon. Sounds like she met him some time ago. Maybe she is a gold digger. My wife, before we married, split up after a couple years of dating. I found out after we married that she had a one night stand with someone she met in a bar just weeks after we split. Even worse they had sex 4 times between when they went to bed and when he left in the morning claiming she never wanted any of it to happen (ya ok right) even going stealth on her without her "knowledge". How is this even possible especially she claimed I was the love of her life? She tried to explain it but actions speak louder than words. It's tough to get it out of your head but in your case at least you won't have to look at her everyday and wonder why. Consider this a blessing for bigger and better things to come!


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## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

bobsmith said:


> I will probably get roasted in the "prenup" thread but boy does this one fit! There are too many unanswered questions for anyone to really help you but I know plenty in the legal system. Enough that attorneys actually think I am one. I file motions and subpoenas as pro se, no biggy. You went and found "the most powerful atty".... Uh, they don't actually "assess your case" they "assess your bank account"! You need to find someone else and NEVER fear talking directly with the judge!!! You never NEED an attorney, and taking a poorly worded stab is better than no stab at all.
> 
> Depending on where you were married and where you lived, SHE will need to file something where you are. As others have said, stop paying her a dime, and sidestep any talks about it. Remember all communication is EVIDENCE!!! You need to save everything and start building a case now.
> 
> ...


Its true that judges are required to be fair and impartial. But you need to have clear understanding of filing petitions as well as legal jargon. 

I cannot think of anything worse than trying to represent yourself in a divorce process against your ex who has an experienced attorney. 

Its not the same. But oftentimes if a defendant chooses to defend themself in a trial. Both judge and prosecutor oftentimes highly encourage them to have legal representation. 

I strongly urge you to not even consider representing yourself in something like this. Its almost like saying I am going to perform my own appendix removal to save money.


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> Its true that judges are required to be fair and impartial. But you need to have clear understanding of filing petitions as well as legal jargon.
> 
> I cannot think of anything worse than trying to represent yourself in a divorce process against your ex who has an experienced attorney.
> 
> ...


Spoken like an attorney trying to drum business! It is really sad how many people are discouraged to try anything. Have YOU ever defended yourself? No? OK, then your opinion is a guess, at best. Mine is from experience. I have been through 3 trials, and countless infraction matters including smoking out a bogus speeding ticket by directly citing the state statute where "a summons 'shall' include the proper time/place for appearance". No, I did not just tell the judge this. I drafted a legal document and sent it certified mail to the parties so it was on record! Why? Because I intended to both file a motion to dismiss and/or appeal in district. They opted not to fight me. 

I also realize I am wasting web space because 99.89% of people lock their brain out of anything new. Convinced you must have school, a diploma, or spend money to tell you, you have a clue. This is why there are bach grads all over the USA that could not poor pizz out of a boot! 

I guess I am one of the few that will never roll over. Probably because I have more trial time than some attorneys and I have realized that when a summons is served, legalists think you will do one of two things.....Roll over, or spend big bucks on an atty. Divorce is a civil matter. It is not criminal so there will be no DA/police trying to put you in the slammer. In the case of kids, the judge is duty bound to follow the law. This is where crooked attorneys try to screw fathers into things they should not accept. They nearly always threaten with "attorney fees". Something a judge has to grant, and they are usually reluctant to do, especially in a pro-se custody matter.


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## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

bobsmith said:


> Spoken like an attorney trying to drum business! It is really sad how many people are discouraged to try anything. Have YOU ever defended yourself? No? OK, then your opinion is a guess, at best. Mine is from experience. I have been through 3 trials, and countless infraction matters including smoking out a bogus speeding ticket by directly citing the state statute where "a summons 'shall' include the proper time/place for appearance". No, I did not just tell the judge this. I drafted a legal document and sent it certified mail to the parties so it was on record! Why? Because I intended to both file a motion to dismiss and/or appeal in district. They opted not to fight me.
> 
> I also realize I am wasting web space because 99.89% of people lock their brain out of anything new. Convinced you must have school, a diploma, or spend money to tell you, you have a clue. This is why there are bach grads all over the USA that could not poor pizz out of a boot!
> 
> I guess I am one of the few that will never roll over. Probably because I have more trial time than some attorneys and I have realized that when a summons is served, legalists think you will do one of two things.....Roll over, or spend big bucks on an atty. Divorce is a civil matter. It is not criminal so there will be no DA/police trying to put you in the slammer. In the case of kids, the judge is duty bound to follow the law. This is where crooked attorneys try to screw fathers into things they should not accept. They nearly always threaten with "attorney fees". Something a judge has to grant, and they are usually reluctant to do, especially in a pro-se custody matter.


That is pretty bad when you have gotten into so many legal issues that you learn how to defend yourself.

The average person will be ripped to shreds in a divorce proceeding. You will be potentially dealing with cps case workers, psychologist, etc. You have to know exactly how to present evidence or the opposing attorney will object on the grounds of hearsay.... you can't just say she is a no good cheating mother.

I seriously doubt anyone would take your advice on this.


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## OnTheRocks (Sep 26, 2011)

Can child support & alimony even be enforced internationally? That would be a surprise to me.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Why will you not say where your wife is from? Is she a Caribbean national? If so which island?


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