# The affair actually made them "love" you more ..Huh?



## brokenhearted118 (Jan 31, 2013)

I have read a lot of posts on here and one of the same things that seems to come up often is this line: 

The cheating spouse tells the betrayed spouse: "This affair actually made me "love" you more."

How could this possibly be said? My own WH used this line on me and after DDay and said this to me repeatedly. How does having an A make the cheater love their spouse more? Til this day, when I think of that remark, I shake my head. 

I just can't comprehend it and when I ask my H to elaborate, he just says, I can't explain it. Honestly, I think its a bunch of BS, but after reading another person post this today, I felt the need to get your thoughts. So tell me, how does a cheater tell the one person you committed to love, honor and cherish such a thing and why?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I think it is BS. I believe it's the rationalization of a cheater who wants to feel better about their choice to cheat, that somehow faltering choosing to cheat, they later chose to stop and think they should get a good star.

The only good response to this nonsense is to point out that there must be conservation of love law, because surprisingly the affair made you love them even less.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Yeah, I've heard WSs say that here and elsewhere. It's a line of crap. What they mean is getting caught, the prospect of loosing everything and being branded as scum to friends and relatives make them love their BSs more. Wait until you hear "My affair made my BS a better husband/wife".


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## Logitex (Jul 5, 2013)

None of you hit it.. 

I dont know any of the acronyms around here. WS D etc I can pretty much guess the definition from the context of this post. (Thanks for being descriptive not just a whole list of acronyms!) 

I believe it 100%. Ive been married 18 and in year 2. I was a WS (I think) yea. I had tons of sex with this woman.. even thought I fell in love with her. The sex wasnt filling the hole. I still loved my wife. I broke off the relationship after 3 months. My wife I dont think has any idea I cheated. I cheated with one woman about about 50 times in the span of 3 months. I would say that my infidelity made my realize that sex isnt my problem. I still loved my wife I tried to move on to another woman and it didnt work. 

now I know that another woman wont fix my problem and i want a close intimate relationship with my wife not anyone else. I REALLY believe I love her more than anyone and anything. 

That being said we are having problems again. Thing is right now I am cheat proof. I KNOW that sex with someone else wont fix my problem. I know that I love her. Dunno. I never got caught she told a therapist she 100% trusts me and if someone told her I was cheating on her she would be 100% surprised and wouldnt believe it. She would have to see it herself. 

I never got caught.. 

Id say that though.. If I could go off and have EVERY type of sex I wanted with some other woman.. and I had a TON of sex. Tried every single thing I had been wanting in my relationship and NONE of that worked and I STILL wanted to be married to my wife. I'd say that is a PRETTY strong case for me being totally in love with this woman. 

feel free to attack me for this opinion. I dont feel that good about what I did. Ill have to live with that the rest of my life. I dont think I will EVER willingly tell her either.


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

Affairs make you love your partner more? What nonsense.
Its like saying "i didnt realize i liked my house till i set it on fire." 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

It's pathetic, really. Again, cheaters have a sick and twisted sense of "love". They thought they loved their ap, thought their ap loved them. They realize neither was true, then come back to reality, see they _had_ love from their spouse, then all of a sudden panic and feel this overwhelming "love" like they never felt before for their spouse.

It's a sick love, not a pure love.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

The Middleman said:


> Yeah, I've heard WSs say that here and elsewhere. It's a line of crap. What they mean is getting caught, the prospect of loosing everything and being branded as scum to friends and relatives make them love their BSs more. Wait until you hear "My affair made my BS a better husband/wife".


No, Middleman got it right.
:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## fooledtwice (Jul 6, 2013)

Sorry I don't really know about loving someone more. 

I do know I love my husband with all my heart. I have never cheated and dont intent to. 
If we split I will not look for anyone. 
I have never looked or wanted anyone else and not even pictures posted on facebook friends post they just don't do anything for me. 
The thought or inkling of another man beside my husband makes me feel sick. 
That is what true love is. 
Not the I cheated and now I love her more. 
If you loved her to begin with you wouldn't of desired someone else. 
I don't want another man and my husband is to tired for sex alot. 
We also have a five year old that stays awake for ever and time together is hard. 
I want to be with my hubby everyday. It's just not possible.
I would never risk losing what I feel for him. I just wish he felt the same way.
If I even tried to be with another man. I would need to stop and run away it just would not feel right. For me the bond is to strong But I am really in love with my husband.


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Logitex said:


> None of you hit it..
> 
> I dont know any of the acronyms around here. WS D etc I can pretty much guess the definition from the context of this post. (Thanks for being descriptive not just a whole list of acronyms!)
> 
> ...


Big Daddy's story is very similar to yours but the duriation of the affair was shorter and he came clean and asked to come back home. Grass wasn't any greener on the other side of the fence. Said he didn't realize what he already had.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Logitex (Jul 5, 2013)

Tough, bitter crowd. I'm sure this place is filled with a lot of hurt and a lot of people that are still hurting on both sides. You asked for perspective. I threw in mine.


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

It is just an expression, it truly is.

The truth is more closer to "I never realized what I had until I screwed some tramp and got caught doing it", it is only when they are faced with dealing with the guilt and remorse and damage of their sordid little affair that they have an "Eureka" moment and it becomes clear that their wife was not all that bad and that if they had tried a little harder in the beginning they could have had a great marriage not just a long span of difficulties brought about by s4agging around.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Logitex said:


> Tough, bitter crowd. I'm sure this place is filled with a lot of hurt and a lot of people that are still hurting on both sides. You asked for perspective. I threw in mine.


Yes it is a very hurt crowd. Your perspective isn't exactly the same situation that is asked about. You never have been caught or admitted to your A, so the question about how this could be said to the BS and really be meant apply in your situation?

The fact that you are living a lie by hiding your affair and stating the sex meant nothing are testaments to the continued lying to your BS and yourself (you had sex 50 times over 90 days, essentially going back every couple of days for more, and you are trying to say it meant nothing). I am not buying that answer, if it truly meant nothing you wouldn't have kept going back every couple of days. At least that is my take on it. Also, you strayed for a reason initially and the boundaries are now gone (this is what my WW has admitted to me). Without having addressed the reason why you cheated, you are very susceptible to it again. To say you are cheat proof because the sex meant nothing to you is just justification. You show no remorse for your actions by hiding this from your wife and marriage. You can't say for sure that if you slipped into an EA, the sex wouldn't mean more to you, and you could like lots slip into an EA without realizing the lines had been crossed and would be cheating without intending to (hence why I say that you are not cheat proof). You need to seek counseling, if you haven't already, as for you to have sex that easily and say it meant nothing could be a deeper cry within you. 

Not trying to insult, just my $0.02 from your story. (And I realize that more exists to the story).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Brokenshadow (May 3, 2013)

Logitex said:


> Tough, bitter crowd. I'm sure this place is filled with a lot of hurt and a lot of people that are still hurting on both sides. You asked for perspective. I threw in mine.


and no one came after you about it. Bit much there, calling the posters a tough and bitter crowd, man. These are some of the most sympathetic people you're likely to meet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Logitex said:


> Tough, bitter crowd. I'm sure this place is filled with a lot of hurt and a lot of people that are still hurting on both sides. You asked for perspective. I threw in mine.


You didn't get it right at all.


This crowd isn't bitter, it's now aware and smarter and sees right through the twisted lies and selfish justifications pumped out by cheaters. Your post about your own affairs is a classic example.

We now see that cheaters lie , even to themselves, and that they do not understand that love comes hand in hand with respect for their SO and with a strong drive to by loyal to the SO.

The fact that they do not feel respect or absolute loyalty to their SO shows that they do not love their SO that they cheated on. Oh, they may desire to be with the SO, and they may not want the SO to leave or be with someone else, but they don't love the SO.

When you love someone you put loyalty to them ahead of your own need to have sex with other people.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

I think the "fog" lifted and the WS realizes what they have at home and understand what is about to be lost. Call it fear of losing, a sudden jolt of reality, or a return to the real world - but it is not "love".


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

TDSC60 said:


> I think the "fog" lifted and the WS realizes what they have at home and understand what is about to be lost. Call it fear of losing, a sudden jolt of reality, or a return to the real world - but it is not "love".


Sorry *TDSC60* I'm not getting on your case here, but I just gotta vent.

I really don't like is term "The Fog". Like what is that? A Stephen King movie? Why give cheaters a way out for their bad behavior by creating a bogus psychological ailment, giving it a nice name like "The Fog" and then saying when they come out of it, they realize what they have done and all can be forgiven at that point if they are remorseful. Gimme a break.

As far as I'm concerned, the Fog doesn't exist. When the WS comes to their senses it's because they were caught and they didn't want their lives to fall apart. Otherwise if they don't sense a danger to their status quo, the WS will continue to pursue that affair as long as the sex and everything else makes them happy. We see this time and again.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

The Fog does exist. In my opinion it is a brain process like any other. It can come to life, run for a shorter or longer time, cease to exist. Like 'being in love'. Like being addicted to a substance or alcohol. Like being obsesssed by something.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

brokenhearted118 said:


> I have read a lot of posts on here and one of the same things that seems to come up often is this line:
> 
> The cheating spouse tells the betrayed spouse: "This affair actually made me "love" you more."
> 
> ...


This.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Terms like "the fog" are cheap excuses handed out by worthless counselors for trying to make a betrayal more chic or palatable. It's false, disingenuous and a lie.

People betray because they want to. They like it. It's an addiction, a high, risky, exciting.... or any other adjective they chose to use. 

To me, people who use such terms as 'the fog', 'mid life crisis', 'a gap that needed to be filled'... prove out the term betrayer. 

I'd rather a WS just look at me and say they did it because they wanted to. I can at least respect the answer rather than scratching the dirt for a cheap reason or excuse.


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

The Middleman said:


> Sorry *TDSC60* I'm not getting on your case here, bit I just gotta vent.
> 
> I really don't like is term "The Fog". Like what is that? A Stephen King movie? Why give cheaters a way out for their bad behavior by creating a bogus psychological ailment, giving it a nice name like "The Fog" and then saying when they come out of it, they realize what they have done and all can be forgiven at that point if they are remorseful. Gimme a break.
> 
> *As far as I'm concerned, the Fog doesn't exist. When the WS comes to their senses it's because they were caught and they didn't want their lives to fall apart. Otherwise if they don't sense a danger to their status quo, the WS will continue to pursue that affair as long as the sex and everything else makes them happy. We see this time and again.*


THIS...THIS...and, oh yeah, THIS!!!!!!!!!!

LOL! My stbx/wh tells me, now of course AFTER I caught him, that he told OW2 *EARLIER *on DDay (before the discovery) that it was over (how coincidental and convenient!) and that he was going to wait until after our child's birthday to tell me (which was almost 5 months away - why that date, no idea). 

Fog my a$$. CS are WELL aware of what they are doing and WELL aware of the consequences. 

Answer me this, if it's all just "fog" - how is it that the affair itself is some crazy, misty haze that they are slave to and cannot help, but they are METICULOUS and VERY IN CONTROL of the methods of covering up their tracks? I mean, for someone who wasn't thinking straight, and in some "hazy daze", you would think that they would be quite careless actually. 

Sorry, keeping an affair secret is *too much work* to then go and blame it on some "fog" you had no control over.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> As far as I'm concerned, the Fog doesn't exist. When the WS comes to their senses it's because they were caught and they didn't want their lives to fall apart. Otherwise if they don't sense a danger to their status quo, the WS will continue to pursue that affair as long as the sex and everything else makes them happy. We see this time and again.


This is so true.


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

Fog talk. It's the same as the less used "cheating made me a better person"

It's really answered by the question how can they live with themselves. The answer is they can't. At least not truthfully, so they have to lie to themselves. They have to rationalize everything, because if they don't they have to live with their own actions. The only person the cheater lies to more than the BS is themselves.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

See_Listen_Love said:


> The Fog does exist. In my opinion it is a brain process like any other. It can come to life, run for a shorter or longer time, cease to exist. Like 'being in love'. Like being addicted to a substance or alcohol. Like being obsesssed by something.


I disagree. You can apply the psychology of "The Fog" to any aberrant behavior or criminal action. Life is wonderful while you are getting away with it but when you get caught they cooperate, sing like canaries and do anything asked of them in order to get lighter sentences. It doesn't matter if you are a Drug Dealer, a MAFIA Capo or a housewife sleeping with her son's baseball coach, the behavior pattern is the same.


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

The fog exists, but
1. It's not an excuse.
2. The person in the fog entered into it willingly.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Actually, it IS true! Well, sort of. After my idiotic revenge affair I realised that I loved my wife more.

Or, perhaps this is more where the truth lies, I knew I still loved my wife just as much as I ever did, perhaps more?

This happened to me: I was with my AP and I saw her in all her glory and thought: "God! My wife is much nicer than you!" Then I saw an image of my wife in my mind and I thought: "Oh, my god! I'm a cheat! I'm having an affair!"


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## FLGator (Mar 26, 2013)

Hell. I'm a little bitter. And it is in part because of people like Logitex that make me that way. 

Brushing off what you did , and are still doing isn't helping at all. It is making things worse. There are underlying issues with you and your "marriage" to this woman that obviously have resurfaced again. 

How will you meet this challenge? Where is the communication. You still don't communicate about what happened in the past to Her. 

All that is being done in your situation is making DDay worse, and even more devastating.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

ScorchedEarth said:


> Fog my a$$. CS are WELL aware of what they are doing and WELL aware of the consequences.


Absolutely correct. This is why I say BullDroppings when any WS says their Affair was a mistake. A ONS _*might*_ be a mistake if it happened only once and never again .... maybe it's a mistake ... maybe. An Affair with multiple sexual encounters, texting, e-mails, photos, the seeking and deceiving is not a mistake. It's a conscious, intentional act to hurt your spouse and children because the WS is well aware of the consequences of their actions. Calling it anything less is candy coating it.


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

How odd. I am a fWW. I never once thought the EA made me love my husband more. I never once thought the EA made me a better person.


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

AnnieAsh said:


> How odd. I am a fWW. I never once thought the EA made me love my husband more. I never once thought the EA made me a better person.


I don't believe any WW really believes that. It's just comforting to them to say it.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> Terms like "the fog" are cheap excuses handed out by worthless counselors for trying to make a betrayal more chic or palatable. It's false, disingenuous and a lie.
> 
> People betray because they want to. They like it. It's an addiction, a high, risky, exciting.... or any other adjective they chose to use.
> 
> ...


Looking back on the period of time between my discovery of my wife's affair and my eventual own stupid revenge affair, I have to say that I was in a sort of a fog.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

I know this isn't what most people want to here but its true. Those that leave there AP of there on volition really do realize that they love there spouse more. We also realize that whatever we saw in the other person or persons was an illusion. If this wasn't the case why would we come back at all? Why not just leave? While we can't really ever fully understand the pain we caused our spouses. We do deal with the months and/or years of anger about what we did because we love you and want to make it work. If we didn't care we'd hit the reset button and move on. It would be much easier to just start over.


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## AlphaProvider (Jul 8, 2013)

brokenhearted118 said:


> I have read a lot of posts on here and one of the same things that seems to come up often is this line:
> 
> The cheating spouse tells the betrayed spouse: "This affair actually made me "love" you more."
> 
> ...


Well...

Simple... It not be nice, but sometimes the affair or cheating or being with people who aren't "really with" them, made them realize they have the real thing.

Then they appreciate it...


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

AlphaProvider said:


> Well...
> 
> Simple... It not be nice, but sometimes the affair or cheating or being with people who aren't "really with" them, made them realize they have the real thing.
> 
> Then they appreciate it...


Well, if it takes an affair or cheating for my wife to realize that she had the real thing in me, then I'm going to dump her sorry ass ... If for no other reason than being stupid.


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## AlphaProvider (Jul 8, 2013)

The Middleman said:


> Well, if it takes an affair or cheating for my wife to realize that she had the real thing in me, then I'm going to dump her sorry ass ... If for no other reason than being stupid.


Humans can be stupid. Her lesson may have been more painful than you dropping her.


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## jay_gatsby (Jun 4, 2013)

The Middleman said:


> Well, if it takes an affair or cheating for my wife to realize that she had the real thing in me, then I'm going to dump her sorry ass ... If for no other reason than being stupid.


:iagree: I never understood the "fog". This thread has shed some light on the issue, however, I am still as confused as ever.


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## brokenhearted118 (Jan 31, 2013)

I guess I should have mentioned this part in my original post, but I want to clarify something. My WH told me all of this bullsh*t after our DDay. 

Actually, here is how it went down. He would sit on his computer and sexually ravish these other women and then when he was all done having his ego boosted, he would come to bed. 

Of course this was late at night and I was sleeping, but I would hear him come to bed and he would "kindly" stroke my arm. After DDay and the ugly truth came out, I asked him why did you do that to me? His answer was, "I don't know, but after those conversations I felt closer to you and it made me love you more". 

Now... if that is not warped, I don't know what is?! A cheater really is sick in the head! :scratchhead::scratchhead::scratchhead:


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

The Middleman said:


> Sorry *TDSC60* I'm not getting on your case here, but I just gotta vent.
> 
> I really don't like is term "The Fog". Like what is that? A Stephen King movie? Why give cheaters a way out for their bad behavior by creating a bogus psychological ailment, giving it a nice name like "The Fog" and then saying when they come out of it, they realize what they have done and all can be forgiven at that point if they are remorseful. Gimme a break.
> 
> As far as I'm concerned, the Fog doesn't exist. When the WS comes to their senses it's because they were caught and they didn't want their lives to fall apart. Otherwise if they don't sense a danger to their status quo, the WS will continue to pursue that affair as long as the sex and everything else makes them happy. We see this time and again.


Wow. I didn't realize the term "fog" would produce such a discussion. Not a problem MM - I do not take things personally here and everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion.

Just to be clear, I do not necessarily subscribe to the "fog" theory (that is why I put it quotation marks). I used the term because I have seen it used many times on this board to describe the WS state of mind while in the middle of the affair. Certainly lying, devious, selfish, entitled, mentally ill, no empathy, - all apply. Call it what you will, my point is that the back peddling done by WSs when caught have nothing to do with love and trying to claim that an affair can have any positive impact on a relationship is nuts.


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## AlphaProvider (Jul 8, 2013)

TDSC60 said:


> Wow. I didn't realize the term "fog" would produce such a discussion. Not a problem MM - I do not take things personally here and everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion.
> 
> Just to be clear, I do not necessarily subscribe to the "fog" theory (that is why I put it quotation marks). I used the term because I have seen it used many times on this board to describe the WS state of mind while in the middle of the affair. Certainly lying, devious, selfish, entitled, mentally ill, no empathy, - all apply. Call it what you will, my point is that the back peddling done by WSs when caught have nothing to do with love and trying to claim that an affair can have any positive impact on a relationship is nuts.


I'm not a fan of cheating, but sometimes people don't respect what they have till it's gone, or till it's almost gone. Then they come to understand what they really have...


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## Lebanon Levi (Mar 29, 2013)

AlphaProvider said:


> I'm not a fan of cheating, but sometimes people don't respect what they have till it's gone, or till it's almost gone. Then they come to understand what they really have...


Do these people confess/stop the affair because they realize what they are about to lose? Those people seem to be extremely rare. The overwhelming majority here seem to get caught first, then miraculously come to their senses. It's curious to me how I know so many people who can understand and appreciate what they have without having an affair.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

AlphaProvider said:


> Humans can be stupid. Her lesson may have been more painful than you dropping her.


Just to be clear, I said *IF*. She's not guilty of the crime. :smthumbup:


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## AlphaProvider (Jul 8, 2013)

Lebanon Levi said:


> Do these people confess/stop the affair because they realize what they are about to lose? Those people seem to be extremely rare. The overwhelming majority here seem to get caught first, then miraculously come to their senses. It's curious to me how I know so many people who can understand and appreciate what they have without having an affair.


A majority of cases that make it onto websites like this are ones where they don't want to give up the lying. So even though they know they got the "real" at home, their ego won't allow them to be wrong. So they trickle truth, slippery slope and lie and continue about their path...

And our other situation is the LD/HD scenario.

And too Alpha, too Beta but no cheating... Just not getting along correctly.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

Lebanon Levi said:


> Do these people confess/stop the affair because they realize what they are about to lose? Those people seem to be extremely rare. The overwhelming majority here seem to get caught first, then miraculously come to their senses. It's curious to me how I know so many people who can understand and appreciate what they have without having an affair.


Honestly, I don't really think it matters if people come to their senses once they get caught. What matters is that they realize it and decide they want their life back. Its up to the BS to decide if they get another chance or not. 

Admittedly I am a wayward that confessed, but speaking for most waywards (men at least). You don't have to come back. You're already fooling around and have another option. Even if you don't love your AP you realize that you have the ability to get another woman. 

The only reason a wayward stays is because they want to, and love their spouse. The ones that don't want to don't come back and never show remorse. If anything they treat their spouse worse after getting caught. 

As sick as it sounds I understand where the OP's husband is coming from. When you've done every depraved sexual thing you can think of with someone else, yet you still have zero feelings for that other person. It truly does make you realize that what you have at home is indeed special. Something that can't be easily replicated.


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## Lebanon Levi (Mar 29, 2013)

Honestly, I don't really think it matters if people come to their senses once they get caught. What matters is that they realize it and decide they want their life back. Its up to the BS to decide if they get another chance or not. 

*** It matters tremendously to the BS who has to determine if the 
WS is worthy of a second chance or not.***


Admittedly I am a wayward that confessed, but speaking for most waywards (men at least). You don't have to come back. You're already fooling around and have another option. Even if you don't love your AP you realize that you have the ability to get another woman. 

***Anyone has that option at any time. You are married, these thought processes shouldn't even be going through your mind.** *
The only reason a wayward stays is because they want to, and love their spouse. The ones that don't want to don't come back and never show remorse. If anything they treat their spouse worse after getting caught. 

*** I disagree, it isn't the only reason. There are many factors like kids, potential alimony and child support payments, etc... Some do love their spouse, and want to make things right, I'm sure.***
As sick as it sounds I understand where the OP's husband is coming from. When you've done every depraved sexual thing you can think of with someone else, yet you still have zero feelings for that other person. It truly does make you realize that what you have at home is indeed special. Something that can't be easily replicated

****It only sounds sick because it is. Not all affairs involve depraved sexual acts with no feelings attached. Some can be quite deep with very real feelings and attachments. Not sure why you have to destroy another person and/or family to realize what you have is special? ***


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> Admittedly I am a wayward that confessed, but speaking for most waywards (men at least). You don't have to come back. You're already fooling around and have another option. Even if you don't love your AP you realize that you have the ability to get another woman.
> 
> The only reason a wayward stays is because they want to, and love their spouse. The ones that don't want to don't come back and never show remorse. If anything they treat their spouse worse after getting caught.
> 
> As sick as it sounds I understand where the OP's husband is coming from. When you've done every depraved sexual thing you can think of with someone else, yet you still have zero feelings for that other person. It truly does make you realize that what you have at home is indeed special. Something that can't be easily replicated.



Don't speak for "most", whether speaking for men or not, as your insight does not make you the spokesperson for the group. Just because you have someone currently, that doesn't mean that they are available to you. My WW was in an A with a MM with a family, which she and he had no control over the staying or leaving of the AP. Just because you can get someone else, doesn't mean you want them or they are right for you.

Staying is not always for love, like LL said, it could be for money, kids, and various other things that don't equate to love (maybe religious or societal beliefs would end a life if the marriage ended). It is not always for love,

Just because one has sex and has no feelings doesn't mean that they have the "true" thing at home. They may have something missing within them or disfunctional that keeps them from feeling deep connections from sex whether it is true love or not. Some are just wired that way. The poster that talked about this, says that since he felt nothing it "must" have been true love with his wife, but never said that he felt special feelings for her either. He may feel nothing with her also, which would mean that either she is not the one or their is something different about the way he was wired.

Sorry, but sometimes it isn't always so clear cut black and white. The majority of the times it is, but not always.


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## AlphaProvider (Jul 8, 2013)

Squeakr said:


> Don't speak for "most", whether speaking for men or not, as your insight does not make you the spokesperson for the group. Just because you have someone currently, that doesn't mean that they are available to you. My WW was in an A with a MM with a family, which she and he had no control over the staying or leaving of the AP. Just because you can get someone else, doesn't mean you want them or they are right for you.
> 
> Staying is not always for love, like LL said, it could be for money, kids, and various other things that don't equate to love (maybe religious or societal beliefs would end a life if the marriage ended). It is not always for love,
> 
> ...


Right... Some people will not "feel" anything with anyone... Love to them may be responsibility.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

I know I don't love my WW more for having an affair. I love her, but the pain of loving her is nothing like the joy of loving her. 

They don't counter-act each other, they live side by side. I love her and I am pained by her actions. I'll never stop loving her, and I highly doubt I'll ever get over the pain she put in me. 

I hope I'm wrong about the latter. I just wanted to be in love with the woman of my dreams. She had other ideas.


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## AlphaProvider (Jul 8, 2013)

doubletrouble said:


> I know I don't love my WW more for having an affair. I love her, but the pain of loving her is nothing like the joy of loving her.
> 
> They don't counter-act each other, they live side by side. I love her and I am pained by her actions. I'll never stop loving her, and I highly doubt I'll ever get over the pain she put in me.
> 
> I hope I'm wrong about the latter. I just wanted to be in love with the woman of my dreams. She had other ideas.


Hysterical bonding, combined with complete transparency and disclosure could make you feel better about it and you can have a better relationship than you ever did.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

Logitex said:


> None of you hit it..
> 
> I dont know any of the acronyms around here. WS D etc I can pretty much guess the definition from the context of this post. (Thanks for being descriptive not just a whole list of acronyms!)
> 
> ...


What a guy.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

The Middleman said:


> Sorry *TDSC60* I'm not getting on your case here, but I just gotta vent.
> 
> I really don't like is term "The Fog". Like what is that? A Stephen King movie? Why give cheaters a way out for their bad behavior by creating a bogus psychological ailment, giving it a nice name like "The Fog" and then saying when they come out of it, they realize what they have done and all can be forgiven at that point if they are remorseful. Gimme a break.
> 
> As far as I'm concerned, the Fog doesn't exist. When the WS comes to their senses it's because they were caught and they didn't want their lives to fall apart. Otherwise if they don't sense a danger to their status quo, the WS will continue to pursue that affair as long as the sex and everything else makes them happy. We see this time and again.


Another vote to debunk "The Fog" here. "The Fog" is a catchy way of saying "selfish".

LOL @ the Stephen King crack. That's damn funny.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Looking back on the period of time between my discovery of my wife's affair and my eventual own stupid revenge affair, I have to say that I was in a sort of a fog.


Yeah - maybe you were. I can possibly give that some credence because if there is a "fog", it's something the BS is forced into by their WS's cheating. Not the other way around.

Your WW wasn't in any "fog". She was selfish, cruel and calculating. The air was clear. Her intentions were clear. There was no "fog".


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> Honestly, I don't really think it matters if people come to their senses once they get caught. What matters is that they realize it and decide they want their life back. Its up to the BS to decide if they get another chance or not.
> 
> Admittedly I am a wayward that confessed, but speaking for most waywards (men at least). You don't have to come back. You're already fooling around and have another option. Even if you don't love your AP you realize that you have the ability to get another woman.
> 
> ...


Are you in therapy? You should be.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

My $0.002: It seems to me that in many cases an affair may be a form of acting out. If you have raised children, you understand what this is about. There may be myriad motivations, but among htem sometimes, I submit, may be a bit of a petulant cry for attention. When that cry is rewarded, as I believe I have seen from time to time in these pages, the WS may feel that the affair (and resulting hurt to and response from BS, which was to some extent the object) has made them love their spouse more.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

"Fog" seems to reference the self brainwashing that goes on to justify an affair. Basically, my MIL who had an affair decades ago, married the man, is still in the fog. She's never owned up to her bad behavior, she's never accepted that she's done anything wrong. She's gas-lighted herself to the point where she actually believes all the stuff she's made up about her ex-husband now. In her mind it worked out for the best for everyone. Forget that she destroyed her ex-husband, set terrible examples for the children.. in her mind, she's the perfect mom. Another term for fog could be 'self induced delusion to justify horrible behaviors'.... 

This is my MIL... She has my wife in the car, and she backs out of the driveway. She hits a car behind her, notices no damage on her truck, and tells my wife to not tell anyone. She then proceeds to lie to the person when they come over and ask if she saw anyone hit the car "no, wasn't home.." as the wife listens. Wife tells me the story, and for years I hear her mother tell the story about how the ignorant neighbor accused her of hitting the car and she wasn't even home. She now believes that's how it went down. 

Her husband worked two jobs and went to school while she cheated, she now has him painted (in her mind) as a cheater (would never), a gambler (he may have played an office pool) etc... will probably turn him into a junkie some day. 

As for the 'love you more' thing... I asked my wife how she felt about the AP on the day I caught them, 'what was he to you?'... she said "a friend"... I asked what do you think of him now, she says "i don't think about him at all, unless you bring him up"... So yea, she was sleeping with this guy that she now says is kind of a jerk, and not a very nice guy... she's like "do you know how sometimes you have friends who are mean and jerks but they're still your friends?" and I'm like "no". I also don't have any friends I sneak out to have sex with... 

Really... you can't make this sh!t up.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

What a complete crock of crap. Having an affair does not improve a person as a spouse. It also does not make you love your spouse more. That's like saying be happy I was out fvking some one else now I love you more and I am a better person. See I did it just for you... And of course I will do it again. 


WD
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Harken Banks said:


> My $0.002: It seems to me that in many cases an affair may be a form of acting out. If you have raised children, you understand what this is about. There may be myriad motivations, but among htem sometimes, I submit, may be a bit of a petulant cry for attention. When that cry is rewarded, as I believe I have seen from time to time in these pages, the WS may feel that the affair (and resulting hurt to and response from BS, which was to some extent the object) has made them love their spouse more.


It is the ultimate proof of love.. you've crapped all over me, thrown me to the curb like yesterday's garbage, yet here I am, wanting to keep you around. They remove the 'I thought you didn't love me anymore' from the list of self induced bull.... 

I did love you.. now I'm not so sure... probably should have found another way to test that one out.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

Yes. I tried to edit to correct a bit, but ran into site difficulties. What I would have said is that the WS may experience something they describe as a reawakeining of "love" for their spouse. But it is ego feed and reward for bad behavior, which I suppose provide good feeling you could mistake for something good.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

Lebanon Levi said:


> Honestly, I don't really think it matters if people come to their senses once they get caught. What matters is that they realize it and decide they want their life back. Its up to the BS to decide if they get another chance or not.
> 
> *** It matters tremendously to the BS who has to determine if the
> WS is worthy of a second chance or not.***
> ...


What you are saying is absolutely 100% correct from the viewpoint of a loyal spouse that would never cheat no matter what. However it isn't the viewpoint of waywards. We compartmentalize things. We are also generally more self centered and impulsive than loyal spouses. 

You are right that all affairs are not about sex. It could be attention, the thrill of the chase, or any other reason. My point was that once a WS realizes that what they were seeking still doesn't compare to what they have at home. They do genuinely appreciate their spouse more than when they started cheating.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

Healer said:


> Are you in therapy? You should be.


I know it is hard to understand that people like me exist but there are a lot of us (at least according to adultery statistics). 

My wife and I are really happy. Its been over a decade since D Day and we are honestly one of the happiest couples I know. Yes, I love my children too. I'm no monster. 

Would I want my daughter to marry a man like me? I am not so sure. I think a man with my personality would be an excellent provider, but I would think she would deserve someone that was truly capable of being selfless in a relationship.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

It's like our daughter who recently left home. All the time she was here, she would use excuses for not finding a job, etc like "You moved me here, I hate this town, the people here don't understand me, I can't do my life here, I need to move out and start on my own!"

So we accomodated her. Now she realizes that she had it pretty damned easy at home, and is really going to have to torque on life to get anywhere, and there are no free rides. It's better at home where all your real bills are paid. 

No. It's YOUR decision to get out in the world, and your decision to fish on your own. You can no longer come back home and live for free. Your decision to leave has forever changed your life. 

Bad metaphor but it works great in my mind. Life changing events.


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

My H told me both times that the OW made him understand me better. gave him a woman's perspective for him and pushed him towards reconciling with me. I don't buy it.

I think it is how he justified his "friendship" with them, that they talked to help each other, not just for fun, flirting and sexting (online affairs). 

I told him to talk to me or a therapist, not an OW, about me/us. That was another betrayal as far as I was concerned and she was obviously not unbiased.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

PamJ said:


> My H told me both times that the OW made him understand me better. gave him a woman's perspective for him and pushed him towards reconciling with me. I don't buy it.
> 
> I think it is how he justified his "friendship" with them, that they talked to help each other, not just for fun, flirting and sexting (online affairs).
> 
> I told him to talk to me or a therapist, not an OW, about me/us. That was another betrayal as far as I was concerned and she was obviously not unbiased.


They are 'helping' each other with chats over coffee and texting about how to fix each others relationships by sneaking around and sleeping together.... Makes perfect sense to someone that's delusional.


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> Honestly, I don't really think it matters if people come to their senses once they get caught. What matters is that they realize it and decide they want their life back. Its up to the BS to decide if they get another chance or not.
> 
> *Admittedly I am a wayward that confessed, but speaking for most waywards (men at least). You don't have to come back. You're already fooling around and have another option. Even if you don't love your AP you realize that you have the ability to get another woman.
> 
> ...


My stbx/wh says this sh!t and it is *fvcking infuriating!*

Seriously? THAT is your proof of love? That you stay? That makes no sense. I didn't love you enough to NOT do these things... but hey, I didn't leave you, so that counts for something! 

Hooray for consolation prizes! You may not have won the million dollar jackpot, but hot damn, you won $2! You should be THRILLED!


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

ScorchedEarth said:


> My stbx/wh says this sh!t and it is *fvcking infuriating!*
> 
> Seriously? THAT is your proof of love? That you stay? That makes no sense. I didn't love you enough to NOT do these things... but hey, I didn't leave you, so that counts for something!
> 
> Hooray for consolation prizes! You may not have won the million dollar jackpot, but hot damn, you won $2! You should be THRILLED!


Like someone above mentioned, he needs therapy... 

Talk about low self esteem... "look at me, I got a woman to like me!!!" Wow, he can get another woman. Imagine that?? You'd think there are millions of them out there or something.. 

He's doing her a favor by staying, giving her such a gift of a man that other women desire... 

Interesting spin...


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## AlphaProvider (Jul 8, 2013)

russell28 said:


> They are 'helping' each other with chats over coffee and texting about how to fix each others relationships by sneaking around and sleeping together.... Makes perfect sense to someone that's delusional.


Thats what they do.

Affairs thrive in secrecy, where affair members thrive on the control. It's the control of the secret which the other relationship partner is supposed to be unaware.

The mastery of the lie fills them with lust.


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

AlphaProvider said:


> Thats what they do.
> 
> Affairs thrive in secrecy, where affair members thrive on the control. It's the control of the secret which the other relationship partner is supposed to be unaware.
> 
> *The mastery of the lie fills them with lust.*



Forget the oysters, lying is the ultimate aphrodisiac. Whodathunkit?


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

ScorchedEarth said:


> My stbx/wh says this sh!t and it is *fvcking infuriating!*
> 
> Seriously? THAT is your proof of love? That you stay? That makes no sense. I didn't love you enough to NOT do these things... but hey, I didn't leave you, so that counts for something!
> 
> Hooray for consolation prizes! You may not have won the million dollar jackpot, but hot damn, you won $2! You should be THRILLED!


It was infuriating to my wife as well back then. But it was ten years ago. No amount of love could have made me not do those selfish things. That's what I've been trying to convey in this thread. Wayward spouses see things from a different view point. A very self centered me, me, me, viewpoint. For some of us seeing the pain we caused makes us want to straighten out (this was me). For others even that doesn't matter.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

russell28 said:


> Like someone above mentioned, he needs therapy...
> 
> Talk about low self esteem... "look at me, I got a woman to like me!!!" Wow, he can get another woman. Imagine that?? You'd think there are millions of them out there or something..
> 
> ...


What I meant by that statement is that the wayward spouse is already dating in a sense, so there really isn't any fear of "getting back out there". For a lot of people in LTRs the thought of dating again is downright terrifying.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> Would I want my daughter to marry a man like me? I am not so sure. I think a man with my personality would be an excellent provider, but I would think she would deserve someone that was truly capable of being selfless in a relationship.


"Not so sure" and "I would think". Really? 

I can say in no uncertain terms that I would not want my son marrying a woman like my stbxww. And believe you me, I'll be keeping an eye out for such people coming into the lives of my children. I guess one positive WS leave with their BS, is what to avoid like the plague in the future.


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

I DEFINITELY do not want my son to be like his father, and if I see similar traits in the girls he brings home, I will SHUT THAT SH!T DOWN!


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> What I meant by that statement is that the wayward spouse is already dating in a sense, so there really isn't any fear of "getting back out there". For a lot of people in LTRs the thought of dating again is downright terrifying.


Ah, so now having an affair is kind of like dating... I read you loud and clear. 

Ever think that perhaps there are BS' out there that've had chances to cheat? Imagine that.. I'll confess, I've had more than a handful of chances.. One, girl I had a crush on in HS.. she was drunk, and basically layed on the bed and told me to take her.. I had fantasies about this girl for most of Junior High.. my wife was at home, just had a miscarriage, I left without ever laying a hand on her. Do you know why? Was I protecting my wife? No... I was protecting me. When I see that girl to this day, I know I had my wife's back, and that makes me proud.. she tried to get me, knowing I was married. What a tramp.. I should have got her a therapist.

Lady I work with, very friendly.. talked all the time (no I never asked her for coffee)... on work lunch once, asked to go back to her apartment.. Would I have liked to? Hell yes!! Did I see it as an insult to my marriage? Hell yes!!

Drunk after boss going away party.. girl I'm friendly with is drunk with us, other guys asking her to show us her booobies... I remind them she is married, tell them to knock it off. Could have taken her to a room.... I didn't, I respected her husband and I don't even know the guy. I would hope someone would do the same for me.

Young girl, 20's.. tatoo'd up and peircings.. wants to get freaky, tell her no thanks, I don't cheat...

Etc..

So some of us BS', know we are actually capable of attracting the opposite sex.. we choose to stay faithful and have learned how to manage boundaries and 'friendships'....


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

russell28 said:


> Ah, so now having an affair is kind of like dating... I read you loud and clear.
> 
> Ever think that perhaps there are BS' out there that've had chances to cheat? Imagine that...


I really believe that people who cheat do so because they really don't think their spouse has any other options, and in some instances, particularly relationships that involve abuse, this is definitely true. It's battered wife syndrome - "You're nothing without me. Where will you go? Who will ever want you?" and so the victim stays because they genuinely believe that there is nothing better out there for them.

I really do think that they are well aware that they have an honest spouse, which makes it easier to do what they do. They know they can take full advantage of the trust their spouse has in them because they know their spouse isn't a liar, and that ironically enough, the cheating spouse *can* trust the betrayed spouse. 

Cheaters know who they can cheat on, so they do. They wouldn't try that crap with someone their equal, because the other party would know the signs immediately.

As the phrase goes "Takes one to know one"


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## love=pain (Nov 26, 2012)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

What a load of crap, I also heard that "even though it was wrong it can make our marriage stronger better fix the things that were wrong".

Oh yeah when something isn't working very well (at least in their eyes) let's just beat it with a hammer I am sure it will work better after it has a few more dents and dings in it. How many times did hitting the T.V. on the side make it work better, after a few too many hits it just quits working at all. Guess what? I just ran my car into a brick wall and yep it runs better, it is all smashed to H3ll but the little rattle it used to have is gone, looky at me I fixed it.
Heck if having sex with another person other than your spouse makes you love them more and can fix your marriage, I do believe I need to go out and find me some strange. In fact I might go have sooo much sex with other women that I will be able to start writing marriage counseling books my marriage will be so strong and I will love my wife so much she will be able to feel the love choking the life out of her from 1000 miles away.

Excuse me I feel the need to go throw up.


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## AlphaProvider (Jul 8, 2013)

ScorchedEarth said:


> I really believe that people who cheat do so because they really don't think their spouse has any other options, and in some instances, particularly relationships that involve abuse, this is definitely true. It's battered wife syndrome - "You're nothing without me. Where will you go? Who will ever want you?" and so the victim stays because they genuinely believe that there is nothing better out there for them.
> 
> I really do think that they are well aware that they have an honest spouse, which makes it easier to do what they do. They know they can take full advantage of the trust their spouse has in them because they know their spouse isn't a liar, and that ironically enough, the cheating spouse *can* trust the betrayed spouse.
> 
> ...


LOL. True. They'll cheat on the local and reliable predictable consistency of relationship partner. 

They may believe the cheated on spouse has no options. It's a raise of "empowerment".

In the situation that brought me to this land, the cheater thought I had no options, and also did what she could socially to prevent my options. It made her feel better to know I was there, and not doing anything.

Once I moved on and started getting life with someone who wanted me she was like "how dare you?"


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

ScorchedEarth said:


> I really believe that people who cheat do so because they really don't think their spouse has any other options, and in some instances, particularly relationships that involve abuse, this is definitely true. It's battered wife syndrome - "You're nothing without me. Where will you go? Who will ever want you?" and so the victim stays because they genuinely believe that there is nothing better out there for them.
> 
> Cheaters know who they can cheat on, so they do. They wouldn't try that crap with someone their equal, because the other party would know the signs immediately.
> 
> As the phrase goes "Takes one to know one"


I think somewhere deep down my FWW thought this about me. I wonder if there's a male equivalent of battered wife syndrome. 


God what fools we all were.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

Healer said:


> "Not so sure" and "I would think". Really?
> 
> I can say in no uncertain terms that I would not want my son marrying a woman like my stbxww. And believe you me, I'll be keeping an eye out for such people coming into the lives of my children. I guess one positive WS leave with their BS, is what to avoid like the plague in the future.


I'm honestly not sure. I do have some redeeming qualities. If the relationship was like my relationship has been with my wife since d-day than yes. If it was like it was before d-day then no.


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

AlphaProvider said:


> LOL. True. They'll cheat on the local and reliable predictable consistency of relationship partner.
> 
> They may believe the cheated on spouse has no options. It's a raise of "empowerment".
> 
> ...


After DDay I started going out I heard a similar thing. It's ironic because they were banging other people months, maybe years before DDay, but they admonish you, the victim, for putting your life back together.


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

Yeah, well, you're supposed to be all forgiving and sh!t. And, it really didn't mean anything so what's the problem? I mean, I'm still here, and I don't have to be...

Gag.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

I am curious about something. Do you guys think any cheater deserves a second chance? I know my posts don't exactly make me look remorseful, but its been so long that both my wife and I have moved on for the most part. What should happen to someone like me? 

Admittedly I don't know your situations. I'd imagine my wife would've posted similar things for up to a year past d-day.


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

it's not about second chances. It's the bullcrap reasons and excuses given.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

ScorchedEarth said:


> it's not about second chances. It's the bullcrap reasons and excuses given.


I finally get it. You are right, there aren't any good reasons that one can give. I think a large percentage don't even know why really which makes things even worse.


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## Logitex (Jul 5, 2013)

This forum needs to have additional user flair in the profile to the left. One could be a shirt with a BIG A on it. (Ill wear that one) and the other one can be a crystal castle with a knight on a white horse standing in front of it. Representing the home of the perfect people who never have done anything wrong. Fact is I've been "clean" for 15 years despite being in a potential situation three times in that period of time. Yeah I get it..15 years is all bullcrap and excuses. Ill just put on my tshirt and sit down. (actually no I wont)


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

Logitex said:


> This forum needs to have additional user flair in the profile to the left. *One could be a shirt with a BIG A on it. (Ill wear that one) and the other one can be a crystal castle with a knight on a white horse standing in front of it. Representing the home of the perfect people who never have done anything wrong.* Fact is I've been "clean" for 15 years despite being in a potential situation three times in that period of time. Yeah I get it..15 years is all bullcrap and excuses. Ill just put on my tshirt and sit down. (actually no I wont)


Typical bullcrap. NO betrayed spouse here says that they are perfect (and if they do, point 'em out. I'll have a go at them. I certainly acknowledge my marriage wasn't perfect and neither was I). 
The topic here is marital betrayal, and to compare it to other failings in a marriage is a fvcking joke. That's the ONE LINE YOU CANNOT UNCROSS.
If you feel good about yourself, fine. What I, or any other BS says, shouldn't bother you. Your conscience belongs to you and only you.


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

<<Yeah I get it..15 years is all bullcrap and excuses. Ill just put on my tshirt and sit down. (actually no I wont)>>

Part of the purpose of this forum for me is a place where I can come and vent a little, read other's similar stories and figure out how I feel about our marriage without beating my WH over the head with it every day. 

He seems to be trying and I am giving him credit for that and want to reward that instead of going off on him in some sort of stream of consciousness. If I told him about it every time I had a thought it would not be productive for me, him OR us. 

I don't really understand why a betrayer would want to hang around here anyway. No one likes being reminded of their mistakes.


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## Logitex (Jul 5, 2013)

:iagree:

That emoticon pretty much sums it up for me too. 
Well said.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> Terms like "the fog" are cheap excuses handed out by worthless counselors for trying to make a betrayal more chic or palatable. It's false, disingenuous and a lie.
> 
> People betray because they want to. They like it. It's an addiction, a high, risky, exciting.... or any other adjective they chose to use.
> 
> ...


Well, what can I say without you feeling belittled....

I can only give an example. If you know people of low personal education and people of high personal education, then you know the people of low education have their own truth.

They have a simple view of truth and reality, made up of simple building blocks. Things they know off. When they judge people with other lifestyles they are judgemental, ingnorant.

In their belief- and value system, it is logic and true. The simpler their education, the simpler it all is.

If you know people of high personal education, you know people with more knowledge, experience, insight, are able to view things from more perspectives.

They know if you look at things from other sides, you come to other conclusions. So they are careful with their judgement, and try to understand other people's views. They will see 'truth' is a fluid concept. Depending on one's point of view.

Their understanding is better, their empathy is bigger. the things one can learn from them can enhance your views, enhance your life.

Well, if you know these differences, you would be able to image your point of view is flawed. Only true if you close your eyes to the reality surrounding you. Only true if you want to stay ignorant.

You can also put away your dark goggles and accept the brightness of life in all its vibrant colors. And yes, half of it can be fun, and half of it can be tearing you apart.

But the whole spectrum colors is reality, is our life.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

love=pain said:


> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
> 
> What a load of crap, I also heard that "even though it was wrong it can make our marriage stronger better fix the things that were wrong".
> 
> ...


The sarcasm is strong in this one.. :lol:


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> I am curious about something. Do you guys think any cheater deserves a second chance? I know my posts don't exactly make me look remorseful, but its been so long that both my wife and I have moved on for the most part. What should happen to someone like me?
> 
> Admittedly I don't know your situations. I'd imagine my wife would've posted similar things for up to a year past d-day.


My wife was pretty cruel to me during her A, but I'm giving her a second chance because of the decades of her treating me well before she started 'dating' another guy without telling me. It depends on each situation, how much love there still is in your heart after all the abuse.. how much history.. are there children involved, will you have to see this person at family events and will it hurt you to not at least try.. Do you feel they are capable of changing and growing.. How much of an effort will they put in to regain trust and respect... Etc... ??


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

ReformedHubby said:


> I am curious about something. Do you guys think any cheater deserves a second chance? I know my posts don't exactly make me look remorseful, but its been so long that both my wife and I have moved on for the most part. What should happen to someone like me?
> 
> Admittedly I don't know your situations. I'd imagine my wife would've posted similar things for up to a year past d-day.


Speaking for myself, if my wife had a physical affair, there would be absolutely no second chances! The marriage in my mind is over immediately and I'd file for divorce the day after DDay. I don't care what things were like before the affair nor will I take into account any other factors. I'm no one's second choice and I refuse to be served sloppy seconds.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

russell28 said:


> Ah, so now having an affair is kind of like dating... I read you loud and clear.
> 
> Ever think that perhaps there are BS' out there that've had chances to cheat? Imagine that.. I'll confess, I've had more than a handful of chances.. One, girl I had a crush on in HS.. she was drunk, and basically layed on the bed and told me to take her.. I had fantasies about this girl for most of Junior High.. my wife was at home, just had a miscarriage, I left without ever laying a hand on her. Do you know why? Was I protecting my wife? No... I was protecting me. When I see that girl to this day, I know I had my wife's back, and that makes me proud.. she tried to get me, knowing I was married. What a tramp.. I should have got her a therapist.
> 
> ...


Great post, brother. I too, had opportunities all over the damn place. Gigging musician, and all. Somehow I was able to magically use my super power (it's called "free will") to not bang anyone but my WW. Imagine!


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

^^^ Even though being the BS takes a huge hit on you in terms of self esteem, I've come to realize that we're better than they are, pure and simple. 

Better people don't lie, betray, hurt, destroy. 

So instead of *B*etrayed *S*pouse, from now on let's make it *B*etter *S*pouse!


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

See_Listen_Love said:


> Well, what can I say without you feeling belittled....
> 
> I can only give an example. If you know people of low personal education and people of high personal education, then you know the people of low education have their own truth.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I don't know whether to laugh or punch the monitor, but I'll say this - 

LMAO @ highly educated people having more empathy? Really? So it's EMPATHY that my doctorate-holding stbx/wh had for me when he was cheating. Ahh, I see... well, in my simplistic, lowly educated, sort of way.

I'd rather be a lowly educated, simple, ignorant and HONEST person than a highly educated, "fluid truth" type of person. "Fluid truth" is nothing more than a way to assuage someone's conscience. Something either IS or it ISN'T. You either took your vows seriously or you didn't, or at some point changed your mind, in which case you have made a switch. That is not "fluid". THAT is you choosing to go from one state of mind to another. *To do that, you have to cross a definitive line*. You're either committed to your relationship or you are not, or again, at some point you crossed that same *definitive line*, and changed your mind. 

And riddle me this - wouldn't it make more sense for the highly educated people to NOT cheat? Wouldn't they, with their higher intellect and greater experiences, be able to have foresight into the consequences of their actions? Or maybe they get so caught up in their intellect and education that they have feelings of superiority which leads them to believe they can walk all over others. Some of the most smug, arrogant a$$holes I have ever met are ones holding degrees and doctorates. They think their education defines them as individuals. Whoopdeedoo. I know kids with degrees who don't know the difference between "lose" and "loose".

I really hope this post was some sort of sarcastic troll.


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## KimatraAKM (May 1, 2013)

My revenge affair didnt make me love him more, but it made me appreciate what I had and realize this "perfect man" I kept lusting after in my husband doesn't exist. Everyone is selfish and cruel. They're out for their own happiness. You have to search hard for the positives in people. Otherwise you'll be miserable. 

In the end love will never be enough. It's work that keeps love going. If you don't work at your relationship it won't get better. Unless you do something to change yourself nothing ever changes. If your miserable it's probably 50% on you that you are.

At least that's how I feel now after cheating to try and "get even".
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AlphaProvider (Jul 8, 2013)

KimatraAKM said:


> My revenge affair didnt make me love him more, but it made me appreciate what I had and realize this "perfect man" I kept lusting after in my husband doesn't exist. Everyone is selfish and cruel. They're out for their own happiness. You have to search hard for the positives in people. Otherwise you'll be miserable.
> 
> In the end love will never be enough. It's work that keeps love going. If you don't work at your relationship it won't get better. Unless you do something to change yourself nothing ever changes. If your miserable it's probably 50% on you that you are.
> 
> ...


I feel sorry that you think "everyone" is selfish and cruel, only out for their own happiness. There are opposite sex relationship partners, just like you - who knows that they are going to do their part to ensure their partner is pleased, and happy to do it. Obviously it is not the great majority.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

ScorchedEarth said:


> Yeah, I don't know whether to laugh or punch the monitor, but I'll say this -
> 
> LMAO @ highly educated people having more empathy? Really? So it's EMPATHY that my doctorate-holding stbx/wh had for me when he was cheating. Ahh, I see... well, in my simplistic, lowly educated, sort of way.
> 
> ...


No, I am dead serious.

Most of my family is of the deliberately ignorant, low intellectual kind, I am sorry to say. So my friends I choose from the more thinking kind of people.

I understand your experiences with people are quite different. That is OK. 

But your posted one dimensional view I reacted on is seriously flawed, it is a simplistic abstraction from reality. 

If you cannot see that truth is per definition fluid, because it depends on the point of view from the observer, than OK, I cannot make you see things otherwise, only you can choose to if you want to.

I think you make an error to connect education and smug arrogance. What I call personal education is getting wiser in life through educating yourself on several dimensions. One of them could be formal eduction. Character traits like smugness and arrogance are to find at all levels of formal educaton and at the lack of it. Decent, behaved people are also present at all levels.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

brokenhearted118 said:


> I have read a lot of posts on here and one of the same things that seems to come up often is this line:
> 
> The cheating spouse tells the betrayed spouse: "This affair actually made me "love" you more."
> 
> ...


I am going to take a chance that this isn't a way to vent. I've only read the first post, but I'll take a stab at trying to answer your question honestly.

First, for probably the first time in your marriage, hubby...wife...whomever felt a very real sense that the current reality was not 'destined to last forever'. That there was a very real chance of losing this person next to them.

When that happens, whether it is a car accident or a divorce, it makes one...thoughtful of the future. If your husband came to you weeping with you in the hospital after you had been in an accident saying this exact same thing, you'd think it was the most romantic thing in the world, even if it was born out of your pain (physical in this case). So why are you doubting that the same sense of loss by another means might make him reconsider his feelings for you?

Second, and the BSers will ONCE AGAIN get on my case about this, but rugsweeping isn't just about infidelity. People in marriages rug sweep problems ALL THE TIME! 

The affair pulled the rug off of all the festering issues that you as a married couple gracefully didn't ignored which was a huge unsightly and even dangerous lump in the rug. NOW you need to deal with it...and self aware BSes, ones who actually succeed in reconciling hold their lump of mud too. 

So now the issues that were fostering resentment in both spouses are getting dealt with. What is not to love about that? You are lancing the boil and getting the pus out...even the pus you put in there.

This makes you less resented, hence more lovable.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

brokenhearted118 said:


> I have read a lot of posts on here and one of the same things that seems to come up often is this line:
> 
> The cheating spouse tells the betrayed spouse: "This affair actually made me "love" you more."
> 
> ...


I am going to take a chance that this isn't a way to vent. I've only read the first post, but I'll take a stab at trying to answer your question honestly.

First, for probably the first time in your marriage, hubby...wife...whomever felt a very real sense that the current reality was not 'destined to last forever'. That there was a very real chance of losing this person next to them.

When that happens, whether it is a car accident or a divorce, it makes one...thoughtful of the future. If your husband came to you weeping with you in the hospital after you had been in an accident saying this exact same thing, you'd think it was the most romantic thing in the world, even if it was born out of your pain (physical in this case). So why are you doubting that the same sense of loss by another means might make him reconsider his feelings for you?

Second, and the BSers will ONCE AGAIN get on my case about this, but rugsweeping isn't just about infidelity. People in marriages rug sweep problems ALL THE TIME! 

The affair pulled the rug off of all the festering issues that you as a married couple gracefully didn't ignored which was a huge unsightly and even dangerous lump in the rug. NOW you need to deal with it...and self aware BSes, ones who actually succeed in reconciling hold their lump of mud too. 

So now the issues that were fostering resentment in both spouses are getting dealt with. What is not to love about that? You are lancing the boil and getting the pus out...even the pus you put in there.

This makes you less resented, hence more lovable.


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## SteveSchuylkill (Jul 16, 2013)

I just got cheated on, and it hurts bad, I like you have that true love, only wish my wife felt the same, I could never cheat, I simply adore the woman, even after she cheated, I am truly heartbroken yet still mesmerized by her, I wish I knew of two people like you and I that hooked up, I would love to see how that works. We are rare no doubt, my gosh I could just smell her and softly touch her and that would be all I needed.


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## Brokenshadow (May 3, 2013)

SteveSchuylkill said:


> I just got cheated on, and it hurts bad, I like you have that true love, only wish my wife felt the same, I could never cheat, I simply adore the woman, even after she cheated, I am truly heartbroken yet still mesmerized by her, I wish I knew of two people like you and I that hooked up, I would love to see how that works. We are rare no doubt, my gosh I could just smell her and softly touch her and that would be all I needed.


So sorry that you are here. I know the pain that you're going through all too well. I'm three months out, trying to R. It's the hardest thing I've ever had to do. To keep that love of her, your wife, is like trying to catch sand. You'll hold tight, squeeze hard, but just dust remains. The pain I feel now seems just like the final twitches of a corpse, the love I had for her dying. In a way...it's relief.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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