# What could be lacking?



## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

Ok, I realize this is general, so general answers are expected, but it could help me with future relationships. It is actually about my brother, and he wouldn't mind at all if I posted this.

My brother is 35 years old, has money, although in some ways it may not show(aside from owning 5 automobiles), is good looking, and has a good personality. He has never been married and never had a serious relationship. At this point, he is happy with that, but he says he always assumed he would get married, but it just never happened.

He still lives at home, if you want to call it that, although he is not a mama's boy or your typical stay home child. My parents are older and he practically runs the place, so it's almost like it's reversed and they live with him now.

He says it usually goes like this: He will date someone for a while and things just seem great, conversation, connection, etc. Then one day when he makes contact, things seem different; they are distant, and from there it goes downhill. he says they never give a good reason as to why. It's always just something general like, "Oh, I'm just not ready or need a serious relationship right now." 

He says they always end by telling him how great of a person he is. He wonders, if I'm so great, why would they let me go?
All the married women think he would be a great catch and are always eager to "fix him up" with somebody. 

Generally speaking, what could be lacking here?


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

Everything I can think of would be just guessing. The only for sure thing is the living with Mom and Dad thing at 35. He would have to do a very good job of explaning the situation (not a momma's boy thing) and even then, most women would think negatively of it.

Guesses ....

- Not Funny
- Not Good Looking
- Not Good at Listening/Talking
- Not Good at Sex
- Boring

There are a bunch of reasons why women decide to break it off.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

ive known a couple of guys in this situation. they are nice guys that are fun to be around but one of them was way too needy and the other a little immature. both really smart and accomplished, though. 

i think the problem might be that your brother initially attracts emotionally healthy women but he is not exactly emotionally healthy and they pick up on that eventually.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

SadSamIAm said:


> Everything I can think of would be just guessing. The only for sure thing is the living with Mom and Dad thing at 35. He would have to do a very good job of explaning the situation (not a momma's boy thing) and even then, most women would think negatively of it.
> 
> Guesses ....
> 
> ...


Thanks for the response. He is funny, he is good looking, he is not boring, and I wouldn't know about sex. 

I guess the part that puzzles me is that other people who seem far less attractive than him, in many ways, have no trouble. Another thing going for him is that he is 35 and doesn't have things that some would consider an issue, like an ex-wife and kids, money problems, etc.


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## geo (Oct 29, 2010)

just a guess, 35 and living at home, and/or may be moving too fast for the into seriousness of the relationships..


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

I come from a culture that is very accepting of men in their thirties still living at home. (Greek American)
still, there is a stigma with it.
And as respectable as it is for whatever reasons, I think it gets in a guy's way if he wants to get married.
Women may say "the dude has enough money for 5 cars" (seriously, that's excessive) "why doesn't he get out on his own?"
How far can a serious relationship really go when you can't bring your girlfriend home to your place--for dinner, movies, sex?
He sounds a bit stuck in adolescence. His cars are like toys.
How serious is he about getting married?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

Blanca said:


> ive known a couple of guys in this situation. they are nice guys that are fun to be around but one of them was way too needy and the other a little immature. both really smart and accomplished, though.
> 
> i think the problem might be that your brother initially attracts emotionally healthy women but he is not exactly emotionally healthy and they pick up on that eventually.



Hm. I never thought of that. I don't think he would be emotionally unhealthy. He is a very logical person and handles things well in his life. What would be characteristics of being emotionally unhealthy that women, or anyone, would recognize?


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

I think his lifestyle just conveys immaturity.

That's not a judgment. 

A woman is attracted to a man who already has it "together."
It's attractive to come across as a "provider" who will stand strong if anything falls apart.

he doesn't appear grown up or together if he doesn't sustain his own home.
It doesn't send the message that he's ready to be a provider.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> I come from a culture that is very accepting of men in their thirties still living at home. (Greek American)
> still, there is a stigma with it.
> And as respectable as it is for whatever reasons, I think it gets in a guy's way if he wants to get married.
> Women may say "the dude has enough money for 5 cars" (seriously, that's excessive) "why doesn't he get out on his own?"
> ...


He is happy as a lark now; he doesn't care now if he never gets married, but I guess we are logical guys and we just like answers to things( I guess we would have made good scientists). Actually, I don't think he is stuck in adolescence, he actually acts mature, and all his vehicles actually have a purpose; one is for his job, one for hauling, etc., Sorry, I didn't mean it to sound like he owned 5 Ferraris. :lol:

Living at home is the one thing I've wondered about, although it shouldn't have been a problem in his earlier life.


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

southbound,

Yeah the living at home thing would probably make a lot of women skittish. However, I also wonder if he suffers from the "nice guy" thing?

For most of my life and even somewhat into today I get told how great I am, blah, blah, blah but I have never had much success with women either. I am married now but I can probably count on two hands the number of serious relationships I have had.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Good point about the 5 cars, that actually does change the picture.
Simple: he's happy the way things are. 
If someone wants to change something, they'll find a way to do so.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

southbound said:


> Hm. I never thought of that. I don't think he would be emotionally unhealthy. He is a very logical person and handles things well in his life. What would be characteristics of being emotionally unhealthy that women, or anyone, would recognize?


well one of the guys i knew was great at first. he was funny, knew all the right things to say, was really interested in what i liked, had an awesome life full of adventure, had a masters in chemistry, philosophy, and ethics, i mean he was great. 

but then it started to be too much. he became over bearing. his life revolved around me and trying to 'make' me happy. he complained that others didnt try hard enough and i felt a lot of pressure to do all the right things for him. there was a lot of unsaid expectations and pressure. i didnt like that very much. i slowly just stopped talking to him. we talked a few months after and he met another girl who eventually also left him. he complained that women always did this to him. he was in his 40's or maybe 50's. 

i also dated another guy in his 20's that i suspect will be single the rest of his life. at first he was great, too. he was a pediatric doctor. very smart but very emotionally vacant. i never felt a connection with him. so i walked away from that one too. 

there was a guy in his 40's in my class last semester who was always single. nice guy, funny. dont know what his story was. 

then i met my H and we are just the right kind of dysfunctional...haha.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

frustr8dhubby said:


> southbound,
> 
> Yeah the living at home thing would probably make a lot of women skittish. However, I also wonder if he suffers from the "nice guy" thing?
> 
> For most of my life and even somewhat into today I get told how great I am, blah, blah, blah but I have never had much success with women either. I am married now but I can probably count on two hands the number of serious relationships I have had.


You could be right about the "nice guy" thing. He used to say that he couldn't understand how some guys can even beat up their women, yet she just can't bear to give him up, but go out and be nice, and it's a deal breaker. He jokingly said that maybe he should start giving his dates a black eye and maybe they would like him better.

I can understand if a guy is trying to act like he lives in "Mr. Rogers Neighborhood," or if he is nice to the point he seems like a wimp, but why can't a guy just be a guy, but be nice to his lady? What's so unappealing about that?

I was raised in a rural area where people were taught to be nice. This bad boy thing eludes me.


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

southbound said:


> I can understand if a guy is trying to act like he lives in "Mr. Rogers Neighborhood," or if he is nice to the point he seems like a wimp, but why can't a guy just be a guy, but be nice to his lady? What's so unappealing about that?
> 
> I was raised in a rural area where people were taught to be nice. This bad boy thing eludes me.



AMEN brother!


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

southbound said:


> He is a very logical person and handles things well in his life. What would be characteristics of being emotionally unhealthy that women, or anyone, would recognize?


Here is my take, I bet he IS very logical, probably very independent too, but not too much Passion for these women who are seeing him, maybe he is just not enough "into them", like as soon as he detects a little distance, does he FIGHT to figure out what is causing it -- for more connection, or has he just gotten into the habit, "easier to let go" (again) - let the women do all the fighting for the relationship, let her be the vulnerable one. My guess he never fully opens himself up, shows this (a part of being "too nice" possibly), and the women are left not feeling the connection THEY crave from a man (even if some other men have more Bad boy "drama"), so they back off and he does nothing to rekindle, probably "fears" what this may accually bring- but would never admit to this. 

I have a good looking brother in law -similar age, I remember him saying in his late teens, how gettnig marreid & having kids would be the greatest. Then he watched his sister's marrraige of 19 yrs go down the drain, a girfriend cheated on him, every relationship since he has not given 100% , they come & they go, now I am not sure how this one is surviving, he is in anothehr state, he has become a workaholic while she is here, they see each other maybe 6 times a year. BUt he left her for his job. Frankly I would have dumped him or went with him! But I see him as SOOO independent, not needing of anyone. I guess his girlfriend can hang with that, but many of us women could not. 

Watch this video Trenton put on here- about Connection with others http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/20501-vulnerability-connections.html


And I noticed you posted on this thread about Possibly being "too independent" http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/20424-can-man-too-independent.html I don't think living at home automaticaly disqualifies you from being "this way" either. I have a single guy friend, lots of money, buys brand spanking new Chevy Trucks, but never been married, decent looking, but he is VERY independent, doesnt go GA GA over the women, doesn't even put himself out there much. Seems content. Ironically he is seeing a stripper right now -interested in seeing how this pans out. He seems to be more into her than anyone in his entire existence. Hope he is not being taken for a ride.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Here is my take, I bet he IS very logical, probably very independent too, but not too much Passion for these women who are seeing him, maybe he is just not enough "into them", like as soon as he detects a little distance, does he FIGHT to figure out what is causing it -- for more connection, or has he just gotten into the habit, "easier to let go" (again) - let the women do all the fighting for the relationship, let her be the vulnerable one. My guess he never fully opens himself up, shows this (a part of being "too nice" possibly), and the women are left not feeling the connection THEY crave from a man (even if some other men have more Bad boy "drama"), so they back off and he does nothing to rekindle, probably "fears" what this may accually bring- but would never admit to this.
> 
> I have a good looking brother in law -similar age, I remember him saying in his late teens, how gettnig marreid & having kids would be the greatest. Then he watched his sister's marrraige of 19 yrs go down the drain, a girfriend cheated on him, every relationship since he has not given 100% , they come & they go, now I am not sure how this one is surviving, he is in anothehr state, he has become a workaholic while she is here, they see each other maybe 6 times a year. BUt he left her for his job. Frankly I would have dumped him or went with him! But I see him as SOOO independent, not needing of anyone. I guess his girlfriend can hang with that, but many of us women could not.
> 
> ...


Good suggestions. Actually, he is really logical and not into playing games, as he calls it. Once a woman starts acting different and distant, he doesn't put up much of a fight. He thinks things should make sense. 

When it comes to being too independent, what exactly does a woman want men to "need" from them. Again, this seems tricky. If we act too needy, that's not appealing, yet if too independent, that's not attractive either.

I say again, I think modern relationships are waaaaaaay too complicated. I think a person needs some kind of behavior degree to even attempt it today. I think the movies and such cause us to have our expectations way too high. If someone doesn't fit a certain criteria or if someone gets a little unhappy for goodness sakes, it is a deal breaker. I think I should have been born in my great Aunt's day. Wheeeew! Just rambling! :lol:


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

southbound said:


> When it comes to being too independent, what exactly does a woman want men to "need" from them. Again, this seems tricky. If we act too needy, that's not appealing, yet if too independent, that's not attractive either.


 There is a nice "balance" in everything. Come on , look at your brother, you admit he doesn't "fight" for the relationship when things are "feeling " distant. This is NEVER a good thing. NEVER, this is where *communuication* should always start -if you want somethign to be saved, salvaged or simply understood. Even with a breakup, I don't think I could rest unless I understood "why"- but that is me. I am a little unrelenting. It doesn't necesarily make one person all bad & the other faultless, just that not all personalities & temperments match good together. So we move on. 

And look at your Ex- same thing, she did little to show you she was not fullfilled, but feeling distant, not connected, she did nothing to fight for that, to alert you. She also hid her vulnerabilty from you. Wasn't a good thing, cause you didn't get to see the REAL her and know what was stirring deep inside. 

I am ever so curious what your Personality type is? Do you feel you and your brother are alike? 

Take a moment to take this test .. The Gray-Wheelwright-Winer 4-letter Type Indicator Test


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> There is a nice "balance" in everything. Come on , look at your brother, you admit he doesn't "fight" for the relationship when things are "feeling " distant. This is NEVER a good thing. NEVER, this is where *communuication* should always start -if you want somethign to be saved, salvaged or simply understood. Even with a breakup, I don't think I could rest unless I understood "why"- but that is me. I am a little unrelenting. It doesn't necesarily make one person all bad & the other faultless, just that not all personalities & temperments match good together. So we move on.
> 
> And look at your Ex- same thing, she did little to show you she was not fullfilled, but feeling distant, not connected, she did nothing to fight for that, to alert you. She also hid her vulnerabilty from you. Wasn't a good thing, cause you didn't get to see the REAL her and know what was stirring deep inside.
> 
> ...


I just took the test and actually enjoyed it. I'm a IXTJ. Now I'm going to call a professor to help me interpret the results.:rofl: I agree with you that with a break-up I need to know "why." as far as him him not fighting for the relationship, he never considers the relationship far enough along to do that. In my case, I guess hearing reasons given and understanding them is two different animals, though.

And yes, my brother and I are a lot alike in personality.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Southbound, you are inbewteen 2 types : the "Duty Fulfiller" Portrait of an ISTJ and "the Scientist" Portrait of an INTJ . The "X" in this type means you are pretty much equally divided between "Sensing" and "Intuitive" :


I -Introverted
X - cross between Sensing & Intuitive
T- Thinking 
J- Judging 

For a more humorous look at your type, read these : The "Crackpot" being the INTJ ******* | Take The Brutally Honest Personality Test and "the Borefest" being the ISTJ ******* | Take The Brutally Honest Personality Test

Do not take offense to these, they are ALL insulting (my husband is the Pushover, I am the Do Gooder, my son is the Prick) , but some underlying truth we can't deny. We had fun with these tests over the holidays with some friends. 

Some personality types work well with others, I have a book on this. There are 16 types, you are a cross between those 2. I will have to look in my book to see what type they claim works well with yours, just for fun of coarse!


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

Thanks for the responses. The big puzzle to me is understanding how being the type of person that my brother is, and some of the other people described in this thread, could be the ultimate deal breaker. There are all kinds of weirdos and such out there, but they all manage to get somebody. Some men physically abuse their wives, cheat on them, are hateful day in and day out, yet their wives or girlfriends still want them; that is somehow more appealing than my brother? But because a guy is too "nice" or happens to live at home, he isn't relationship material? Don't get me wrong, I'm not lashing at you guys. What you wrote is probably 100% correct. It just seems odd that things work that way in our society.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

My Book called "PLease UNderstand me" about character & temperment types says the "Scientist" (*INTJ*) is attracted to the ESFP "the Entertainner" when younger, and also the ENFP 'the Journalist.

The* ISTJ *(called the Trustee in my book) also says that this type is attracted and works well with the ESFP because she is the opposite, and again the ENFP just like above. 

I would agree that an Introvert will be better matched with an Extrovert many times. It works well in our marraige anyway. But we do have the same enjoyments in life.


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