# What's going on?



## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

Guys

What am I missing here? Me and OH had words last night. I fully intended to open up a discussion about how I was finding life quite hard work, we're both tired and how we could work to make things easier for both of us.

It turned into a charade where whatever I said, he had to match it ("I feel so tired" ---> "don't we all", "I wish you appreciated everything I do for us ---> "well why don't you come to work with me and you can say thank you baby for doing such a good job at doing x/y/z, you really did a/b/c well, but you don't, do you?")

I kept trying to tell him how I felt but he was doing that Mars thing of telling me WHY I shouldn't feel like that, how I should feel. It seemed like he wouldn't be happy until I said I'd just get on with it ("you're not special you know, do you think you are?") He just kept ploughing on, I was getting angrier and upset, and he only relented when he saw I was crying over doing the dishes (despite my valiant attempts to stay in control.)

He asked what could he do? I said, just you saying, wow, you must be tired after getting up with the baby so much last night, come here I want to give you a hug, would do. That either puzzled him or he didn't get it, I wasn't sure.

Oh, and somewhere in there was a comment from me (I can't remember how it fitted in) about when I go to be affectionate with him and he turns away, he's been doing that a lot recently. He can never seem to believe how often he does it when I tell him? He blew up at that yesterday- he'd be the first one to complain if I kept turning down his advances yet I'm supposed to be fine with it, not bring it up, go along as if everything's fine, not mention how I feel, and want to roll over to him in bed when he comes up at 1am?

What's going on?


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Hi tobio,

This one is simple. Your husband feels unappreciated, and has for a while. He's waaaay past the point of passive aggressive behavior, although he's still playing that card, so now he's using direct critical comments to make you understand he's not happy. What he doesn't realize is that this behavior pattern is actually more destructive to the marriage than simple passive aggressive silence. Although both behaviors are bad. You are not meeting his needs, and he's feeling down. The comments about his work indicate a high need for appreciation and adoration. He needs to be thanked about all he does for the family, and he also needs to feel like you think he's sexy, strong, and all your man. Try this....when he gets home, tell him you DO understand all he does for the family, that you appreciate everything he does, and that your sooo glad that he's your man. Then hint about getting some later in the evening, after, rock his world with some awesome sex, or a good BJ. Seriously! He'll be more calm, and more affectionate to you outside the bedroom with more hugs, kisses, and cuddling. At least he should be, hopefully. Right now he is avoiding your affectionate advances because he most likely is a bit resentful and is trying to " punish" you in a passive aggressive manner.

Now, there is YOUR needs! He's confusing working hard, paying bills, and supporting the household as one of your needs, when in fact that may not be at all what you need to feel loved. Most guys think this, because we are conditioned to be providers, and if he's a good provider than that should be enough to make you feel love. Financial support may just not be one of your primary needs, so to you it doesn't make you feel love. You just have to explain this to him, telling him you appreciate everything he does, but what I really want from you is....fill in the blank.

THe MARS concept is also conditioned into a mans wiring. WE want to fix things. YOU just want to be heard and listened to, you don't need fixing. I would suggest getting him to read a book called. "For Men Only" by Shaunti Feldhahn. I thought this book was great to explain how women don't need fixing, they need listening and understanding. While you are at it, YOU can read a book by the same author called "For Women Only". This will explain to you how men think about sex, why they need admiration, and why they feel they need to fix everything all the time.

Hope this helps!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

alphaomega said:


> Hi tobio,
> 
> This one is simple. Your husband feels unappreciated, and has for a while. He's waaaay past the point of passive aggressive behavior, although he's still playing that card, so now he's using direct critical comments to make you understand he's not happy. What he doesn't realize is that this behavior pattern is actually more destructive to the marriage than simple passive aggressive silence. Although both behaviors are bad. You are not meeting his needs, and he's feeling down. The comments about his work indicate a high need for appreciation and adoration.


Wow. You know, on reading my post back, I thought the same. It sounds like HE wants appreciation too. I have to say, this one puzzles me, because I feel like I make an effort to tell him I appreciate him going to work (he mentioned specifically how much he hates his job yet goes to work because he has to) but obviously this is not coming across.



> He needs to be thanked about all he does for the family, and he also needs to feel like you think he's sexy, strong, and all your man. Try this....when he gets home, tell him you DO understand all he does for the family, that you appreciate everything he does, and that your sooo glad that he's your man.


I am always thanking him for the stuff he does. I even make sure to point out how I appreciate the little things, I lightheartedly joke about him doing the "guy" tasks around the house because I wouldn't have a clue and he's so good at it (lol), that sort of thing. The other parts... yeah he is ridiculously strong so I'm always commenting on it, and we have what I thought was a good vibe going between us, sexual banter, so I thought I was getting all this across...



> Then hint about getting some later in the evening, after, rock his world with some awesome sex, or a good BJ. Seriously! He'll be more calm, and more affectionate to you outside the bedroom with more hugs, kisses, and cuddling. At least he should be, hopefully. Right now he is avoiding your affectionate advances because he most likely is a bit resentful and is trying to " punish" you in a passive aggressive manner.


You know, I could TOTALLY understand if things were lacking in that department. However, for a couple who have four young kids, we do pretty well I think! I recently asked him specifically how he felt, was he happy with frequency, quality, was there anything he'd like to try we haven't done yet or for a while, and he said he was fine with things for now.



> Now, there is YOUR needs! He's confusing working hard, paying bills, and supporting the household as one of your needs, when in fact that may not be at all what you need to feel loved. Most guys think this, because we are conditioned to be providers, and if he's a good provider than that should be enough to make you feel love. Financial support may just not be one of your primary needs, so to you it doesn't make you feel love. You just have to explain this to him, telling him you appreciate everything he does, but what I really want from you is....fill in the blank.


If by financial support you mean him being the sole breadwinner, then of course I appreciate him going out to work, but to me it is of no consequence whether it is me, him, or both of us that do it. Therefore I wouldn't say it is one of my primary needs.



> THe MARS concept is also conditioned into a mans wiring. WE want to fix things. YOU just want to be heard and listened to, you don't need fixing. I would suggest getting him to read a book called. "For Men Only" by Shaunti Feldhahn. I thought this book was great to explain how women don't need fixing, they need listening and understanding. While you are at it, YOU can read a book by the same author called "For Women Only". This will explain to you how men think about sex, why they need admiration, and why they feel they need to fix everything all the time.


Will check those out, think have seen them mentioned on the boards previously.

We had another start/stop discussion. This seems an inherent pattern whenever we get talking, things get addressed in part, then he gets uptight and cuts the discussion leaving me feeling like things are unresolved.

I explained that when he turns down my affections (turning his head away) it really hurts me. I explained I understood that it wasn't something that comes naturally to him as he has said frequently in the past, but that when he says that, I am hearing that he doesn't want to try, and was that the case?

He said I read FAR too much into everything and want answers all over the place for things he doesn't have answers to. That he shows his love every day in different ways (he's an acts of service guy). I said I completely appreciate this, however I *need* the physical affection. He said... he could live without it.

Really? Seriously? Is this a usual guy thing? I started to ask if he could live our relationship from now until forever with companionship and sex and nothing inbetween and he got mad at that and cut things off. That just feels so empty to me, to be able to live without kisses, cuddles, but more to the point, I heard from that that he can do without my kisses, hugs, those gentle strokes of the skin and holding hands and right now I actually feel offended at that?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Golden Rule: Do as you would have others do unto you.

Platinum Rule: Do as others would have you do unto them.


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

Conrad said:


> Golden Rule: Do as you would have others do unto you.
> 
> Platinum Rule: Do as others would have you do unto them.


I hear that. Is it my shortcoming though? Am I missing something I should be doing?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

tobio said:


> I hear that. Is it my shortcoming though? Am I missing something I should be doing?


Stop putting your emotional health on him.

Seriously - if you need affirmation, aren't you able to give that to yourself?

If you can, you are in a much stronger position to "give" it to him - and then to receive.

Because, when he sees you as 'strong', he will want you. Trust me.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Yes there is a problem here. You are not the problem your husband is. You seem to appreciate him, that is clear, you let him know. You are meeting his sexual needs that is from his own mouth. He is happy because you are meeting his needs well enough, but you are not happy because he cannot be bothered to meet your simple need for affection. 

He is fat and happy comfortable getting all he needs and for some reason, he is not motivated to try to meet a simple request from you for affection. He is certain that you will continue to meet his needs regardless of how he dismisses your needs. Suppose you dismissed his needs the way he does yours? 

You have tried to talk to him and you got nowhere. Woman will go for a long time with men who ignore request for simple things until the unfairness of it and the resentment makes them shut down. There are 100s of post on this forum from men who's wives suddenly want a divorce or separation and they never see it coming.They look back and remember all of the simple request that they ignored year after year and then they try to make amends. 

I disagree that you need to appreciate him more or to do more for him I think it is the other way around. Why would you have to do more for a person who dose not appreciate what you are already doing. He is very disrespectful of you, ignores a basic need of yours and does not appreciate you. You let him get away with that. Why? 

Don't give him more, give less, he does not value what you are doing for him. He treats you the way you allow him. if he is happy and can not bother to make you happy, then why are you continuing to feed into his selfish disregard of you?? 

Get his attention now. Stop what your doing and talk to him let him know that this is serous and you expect him to listen to your request and to meet your needs as well as you meet his. Tell him starting today this is the way it will be. There is no better way to get a person to notice and appreciate the value of what you give than by with drawing what you are giving. Under no circumstances give more - you do not want to become a doormat to be used for his needs only. 

If this goes on you are going to withdraw from him and may leave him, so you better get his attention now. If you keep going this way you are you will eventually withdraw from him.


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

Well he has been making an effort. What has been said is obviously sinking in. He made a point of coming in and kissing and cuddling before he went out whereas usually he'd just pop his head round the door and say "bye." He has been giving me more hugs and coming and sitting next to me more- I don't know whether to do anything by way of acknowledgement.

He even gracefully let me have a lie in this morning. Usually this is a real bone of contention between us as he often tries to manipulate the arrangement we have (he has Saturday lie in, me Sunday) and I feel quite angry when that happens. Today I woke him after the baby woke up, it took a few goes but he did get up without any complaining, let me sleep in until 11am which has rarely if ever happened since our older one was born nearly two years ago.

However... I got up, we all had breakfast together, I sat down to change the baby, turned around... and he'd disappeared. I thought he'd gone outside to take the rubbish out- turns out he'd disappeared back to bed.

I left him to it, I was angry but didn't want to face a big falling out. He emerged an hour and a half later but only because we were expecting someone round and they were knocking at the door. He said, I suppose you're going to be angry at me now, what's *that* face for? I replied I'm bloody angry with myself for putting up with this actually, I spend half the weekend looking after the kids on my own. He brushed it off saying it was rubbish and told me I could "f*** off."

Now, this rubs me up the wrong way and he knows it- I'm not a prude, or have led a sheltered life or anything like that, but I do not swear and tell him to mind his language around me because I dislike it. He knows I find it really offensive to direct anything like that at me.

He's alternated between being really nice to me and quite impatient and curt- he took me out for tea, he parked quite close to the car next to us and I didn't think I'd be able to get out or get the baby's car seat out of the back. I didn't want to sound like I was picking fault so I said (rightly or wrongly) I think we might be a bit close to that car. He looked at me and said well just get over it. He said it really shortly, which I wasn't expecting, jumped out, got out, struggled to get the car seat out, and walked off then turned round and watch me have to climb over the front seats to get out his side. I don't know why I don't say anything when he's like that- probably because if I bring things up he usually sighs and says, what is it this time, gets angry and makes out like I don't have any legitimate reason to have a gripe.

And Conrad- I think it's empathy I'm actually looking for. I actually feel really down right now, this is all really getting to me. I want him to be my shoulder to lean on when I'm finding things difficult because I'm tired, I don't want him to fix it necessarily, but to be supportive, and he seems resentful of me asking for that for some reason.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Conrad said:


> Stop putting your emotional health on him.
> 
> Seriously - if you need affirmation, aren't you able to give that to yourself?
> 
> ...


OP If you follow this advice you will become more of a doormat that you are now. No one should say to their spouse eeff off that he holds you in contempt and that is a love killer. You have every reason to be depressed you are walking on eggshells with this man. What is so special about him that you put his right to act like an azzzz and you jump around like a jack-a-rabbitt?

You are treated they way you allow your self to be treated. Why do you allow him to treat you like you are nothing to him?? He is quite sure he can treat you any way he pleases and feel no consequences. Why is that? 

Are you fearful that he does not love you enough to stay if you demand he treat you with respect? If he does leave you get rid of a major stressor in your life but I doubt that will happen. Demand consistency. Give positive feedback when he treats you as expected and withdraw from him when he does not. Demand an apology for the curse stop letting bad behavior go. 

Get a book on boundaries right now you don't have any. There are things that are acceptable and those that are not. There are also consequences, if you allow him to walk all over you you will continue to be miserable. Things will not change until you make them change. You can complain all you want but if you don't act now look forward to decades of loneliness and mistreatment if you last that long. 

Don't give more give less, he is getting all he needs met and you are getting nothing and what's more he does not appreciate it. Put a stop to it now.

If you don't don't act then don't complain because you are in control.


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

I did collar him about the telling me to f*** off. He started nit-picking, saying he didn't say he told me to f*** off but that he said something similar but not aimed directly at me, as if that made it better.

Yesterday when he's been sniping, he's basically been talking to me like I'm something he scraped off his shoe. He speaks as though he thinks I'm incompetent, over-emotional but I know if I confronted him about this, he'd say I was being silly, he was just in a bad mood and I overanalyse every little word he says. And I do do that sometimes, I know. But I should have confronted him... It's just that it takes me by surprise when he does it (he is by no means like this all the time), and I tend to retreat when hurt, I find it hard to confront. Then later he'll be like, what are you bringing that up for? or I will want to bring it up but feel like as everyone's in a happier mood that I'll spoil it, he says that sometimes, why are you spoiling things?

I'm typing all this and reading it back and I feel bad now because I do feel that the majority of the time, he is a great guy and we get on well. I can just never find the way to confront him that isn't going to come across as being over-emotional, getting upset, angry (I'm not usually an angry person but have been feeling so recently) or nagging or even passive aggressive. 

I have realised though that the more I have been wanting from him, the more I have been giving him, thinking of nice things to do for him, making sure the house is tidy when he gets in, little presents he might like, being more giving in bed, and tbh I am not sure, like catherine says, if this is doing me any good. 

I don't want to withdraw without appearing petty and like I'm playing games, so how DO I do it? How do I confront his behaviour when he is out of order? He can get angry if I press an issue which is somewhat intimidating so how do I press on and create boundaries without him saying I'm being silly and moaning about nothing (telling me how I *should*be feeling or not feeling again)?


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