# Am I wrong for thinking that my wife is being very disrespectful to me?



## Maven

Hi all, I am a 35 year old man married to my wife for 8 years. We have two beautiful little girls ages 7 and 4. Our relationship is very loving, we both believe we are each others soul mates, well, at least I do. My wife says she loves me blindly and I truly do feel loved by her. We are both in very good shape and both very much physically attracted to each other. Sex is amazing, it's been getting better and better each passing year. I mean compared to some other marriages, I think we are very lucky to still have the same passion as we did when we first met. We only have 1-2 serious arguments per year, but always find a way to work it out and get over the hump. I am starting to think though that the only reason that is, is because I am always trying to mold myself and to better fit my wife's expectations of a great husband. Every time she has an issue with something, I listen to her and change my behavior to make her happy. The problem is, that when I have an issue with something she does, she always makes it seem that it is my problem and I should just except her as she is and deal with it... 

Here is the issue I am having... How would you feel???

I come home from a business trip unannounced at 4am in the morning and I find my wive's very good guy friend at the house. They are a little drunk, and seem pretty surprised to see me home. He acts a little uncomfortable, but I would too if someone's husband walked in on me at their house at 4am in the morning. I know the guy, but we are not good friends. The were not doing anything inappropriate, but I think it is very strange and disrespectful to have a guy over till 4am when you are married and a mother and you have responsibilities in the morning with the kids, it's Tuesday night by the way. So I make a big stink about it, my wife assures me that she thinks of this guy as a brother and stuff and never in any romantic way, and I believe her but never the less I think it is very inappropriate in my opinion. I would never have a female over till 4am if she was away on business. I think it is disrespectful. 

Few days later, while I am still bitter about the previous incident. My wife and a friend go to a girl yoga related gathering and I stay home with the kids. She tells me that they will be home by midnight. Well, midnight comes and goes and it's 1am so I give her a call, since I am waiting up for her. After 3 attempts when she did not pick up the phone, I activate the "Find My Phone" feature on my iPhone and since we are on the same account, I see where she is at. Partly because I am worried because she is not answering my calls. I see that she is at her Guy friend's house. The same guy from the night before. At 1:30am after what happened a few days earlier and I voiced my concern that I did not want her hanging out with this guy at inappropriate hours of the night. I trust her completely and I don't suspect that she is cheating on me at all, it's more about the respect of being a responsible wife. I would not do this with a female friend, and I know she would not approve of me doing the same. But when I confronted her about it, she flips it on me and says that it is my jealousy and lack of self love that is making me have all these feelings and that she is honest with me and never lied to me about anything. She accuses me of spying on her when she has given me no reason to, and says that I basically have no right to feel hurt and broken-hearted because she is always truthful with me. So I ask her just because you don't lie, that means you can do whatever you want? I have repeatedly asked her not to hang out with this guy till the wee hours of the morning with him and his 20something single friends. She is married, but want's to live the life of a single person that stays up till 5am or even spends the night at his place on occasions and expects me to feel that this is normal and ok and not be upset by it.

Am I wrong for feeling disrespected? How would you feel if your husband/wife behaved this way? What would you do?

Thanks for the replies ahead of time.



** UPDATE ** 



jnj express said:


> You will do what you believe is right---------what you NEED to do---is set some boundaries
> 
> Married wives and mothers---do not entertain other men, even if they are friends---PERIOD---that has to end, if she doesn't like it, then you have a problem, cuz what she is doing is NOT IN THE MARRIED WOMANS SCRIPT
> 
> Same for her partying w/out you----if she is lonely she should have hobbies, and projects, and be with her GF's in the daytime----AT NIGHT SHE NEEDS TO BE HOME WITH HER OWN KIDS, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU ARE NOT AROUND, and she sure as he*l should not be drinking if she is to drive when you are not around, same for spending the night away from YOUR KIDS, when you are not around.
> 
> If she must talk to her male friends---once a week over the phone, for a short conversation, is plenty
> 
> These boundaries need to go into place immediately---and there MUST BE ACTIONABLE CONSEQUENCES THAT SHE KNOWS OF SHOULD SHE VIOLATE THESE BOUNDARIES
> 
> No matter what you wanna believe about her---NO RESPECTING MOTHER WOULD ENTERTAIN A MAN WHO IS NOT HER H---IN HER HOUSE WITH HER KIDS PRESENT AT 4 A M---and be DRINKING WITH HIM--------THAT STOPS AS OF YESTERDAY
> 
> If this were me---I would Poly her as to the 4 a m night, and ask her if this has happened on other occasions----but then again this is your life isn't it---and right now your so called wonderful wife and mother who drinks with men who are not her H, in the marital home with YOUR KIDS PRESENT, seems to be up on a PEDESTAL


This post really opened my eyes!!! I really do love and adore my wife beyond comprehension, and she has been up on a PEDESTAL our whole marriage. I f***d up the 1st year of our marriage because of the overwhelming stress of a new business, new marriage, a baby, new house and some health issues.. I found escape through gambling. Ever since then, I have been worshipping the ground my wife walks on trying to make up for that year of lying and covering up. I have been working on my self for the following 7 years and have been a great husband to her. 

I have never cheated on her, been emotionally unavailable, done any drugs or even gotten drunk through our whole marriage. I have been working tirelessly to make sure that her and the kids have a great life. I earn 100% of the income and have been for our whole marriage, she has never had a job since she has been married to me. I then come home and help her with 1/2 her **** around the house because she guilt trips me into feeling that I am never around for her and the kids and she has to raise the kids all on her own. 

She uses the same excuse to get me to stay home with the kids, to give her "HER" time, since I am gone all day and she is stuck at home with the kids. Yet, she never has offered to get a job to help me financially so I can stop working so hard. I constantly get reminded of how I am "NEVER AROUND", "SHE HAS TO DO EVERYTHING ON HER OWN" .. YADA YADA ... yet I do all the work, take care of all the house ****, all the bills, anything to do with money, legal ****, taxes, repairs, computers, electronics and pretty much everything else... all I expect from her is to be a good mother.

I NOW REALIZE THAT: by doing all of that I have enabled her to become completely incompetent and dependent on me and pretty much given her a green light to cross any boundary as she wishes, and she justifies it all by saying "I never cheated on you." Not realizing that some of the disrespectful s**t she is doing is just as damaging to our marriage as a PA or EA.

Through all of your comments and reading other posts, I have learned about gaslighting, rug sweeping, blame shifting and many other manipulating techniques used by WS to justify their wayward behavior and guilt tripping you into allowing them to continue to misbehave. I decided to no longer accept any of this behavior from my wife and made it very clear to her that I am going to leave her if we do not set very clear and specific boundaries and she absolutely respects these boundaries 100%. We addressed her male friends and no more hanging out with any male friend alone, if I was not there. She was very sincere and agreed to all of my terms and also agreed to go to Marriage Counseling. 

Everything seemed it was going great, but my gut was telling me that there was still something wrong. I guess because of this forum, I could now see through the **** and I just could not trust her any more. So, I decided to go through her recent text messages to assure my self that she was not hiding something else from me. I discovered many txts had been deleted, they were from a few months ago, before we had the talk but it was a BIG RED FLAG. I confronted her about it and as before she blew up and flipped everything over on me, as if I am at fault because I have no trust in her and she never has given me a reason to not trust her because in her DELUSIONAL ways she has never lied to me. NO, THIS S**T IS NOT GOING WORK THIS TIME!!! 

She says she contacted this guy to get a little weed, as I know she smokes on occasion and I am ok with that. She erased the messages, because she did not want me to get any wrong ideas and cause a fight... blah blah... Being able to see through the BULL **** and having my RADAR super sensitive now, I played along and dropped the subject. I then went ahead and retrieved all of the deleted messages and reading through all of the crap, I pretty much realized that my whole world is getting ready to crumble around me.

I find out that my great wife, the great mother of my children has been having her DRUG DEALER friend over, (not OM friend, different guy) when I was working or away on business and they have been doing drugs in my home with my kids sleeping in the other room!!! There is mentions of Weed, Coke, Ex... who knows WTF else!!! He even mentions that he likes it better when my older one is asleep, because she interrupts them and they can't get as hight... and she agrees!!! She has been supplying drugs and prescription pills to her friends acting like a middle man, getting discounted drugs from him, and freebies. No mention of any sexual stuff or any affair but at this moment I DON'T DOUBT ANYTHING!!! This s**t going on with my kids around, drove me fk ballistic. I was supposed to be home after work today, but I am not going home because I am afraid I am going to just kill her. I have to be smart and need alone time to calm down and process all this. 

I KNOW WHAT I NEED TO DO!!! I just feel so destroyed now that I just can't think. I am in the dreaded FOG!!! I still love her to death, but I just don't know how I will ever be able to get over this or ever see her again as I once used to. OMG!!! The more I think about it, the more it just drives me insane.

Providing that she agreed to change and stick to strict boundaries and go to counseling, after all of this crap happened but before I knew about it, I don't know if I should still give it a shot, and maybe snap her a** back to reality and work this out over a long period of time... or I should just file for D and move on with my life?

She does not know I know all of this. I know what her reaction will be when I tell her that I retrieved all her deleted messages!!! WTF do I do? Is this a DEAL BREAKER? Do I not even give her a chance to show me she can change and we can make it work? She gave me that chance 7 years ago and I changed, but now the tables have turned! Do I owe her that same 1 time chance as I got, or just file papers??? I have absolutely accepted REALITY and am READY to do either one, I just need help figuring out which one do we start with.

Any advise please?


----------



## Gseries

Um, holy crap, wake up. It is completely inappropriate for your wife to have man in your house at 4 am when you are coming home from a trip. Maybe you need to remain calm but be absolutely clear that she has crossed a line. Sorry, sounds like you are on the brink and don't even know it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 2ntnuf

This thread should be moved to the Coping With Infidelity section. You can private message a moderator and ask them to do it.

Moderators I remember off the top of my head:

Amplexor
Deejo
FrenchFry


----------



## committed4ever

Really??? Seriously??? I mean if this story is true you might as well name this thread "My wife is having an affair with her best male friend." The only thing that throws this off a little is you didn't catch them naked at 4:00 in the morning.


----------



## AliceA

> and says that I basically have no right to feel hurt and broken-hearted because she is always truthful with me. So I ask her just because you don't lie, that means you can do whatever you want?


She says she doesn't lie to you; YOU say she doesn't lie to you; BUT the whole problem started because she LIED to you. That was what she did by going to "yoga" then secretly going to see her BF without telling you. THAT I'm sorry to say, is a huge, big, whopping LIE.

YES lying is disrespectful. Holy crap, it's like the biggest sign of disrespect anyone could ever show you, short of setting you on fire.


----------



## Thound

She may really think the guy is just a friend, but I gaurrantee if she offered him sex he would take it.

I don't believe in opposite sex friendships. Just too much drama.


----------



## Thound

Oh, I'm betting this is way more than a friendship.


----------



## unbelievable

People don't generally lie without a good reason. She lied to you about going over to dude's house. That ought to tell you nothing you would approve of was happening over there. You told her you didn't want her hanging out with the guy at odd hours? Seriously? I would take her to the door of my house. I'd tell her that outdoors is where lying women who want to sneak around with other guys belong and indoors there is only room for a 100% faithful, 100% loyal wife. If she chooses to step back in the house, no visits, no calls, no text messages, no smoke signals, with this guy. If I caught her with a stray thought about that or some other guy, I'd toss her lying a$$ to the curb. There is no appropriate time for a married woman to be hanging out alone with another guy, especially not after she's played the liar and sneak.


----------



## Cooper

Maven you have got to be smart enough to realize how wrong her behavior is. No one wants to admit that the person we love is a liar and probably a cheater but you have to look at the facts. 

1) Having a man over and spending the night drinking when husband is away is wrong for about 100 reasons. I assume your girls were home at the time, that alone would send me off the deep end. So we have a untrustworthy spouse, and a neglectful mother. 

2) Lying to her husband so she can go hang out with another man, not answering phone when husband calls, what if there was an emergency with you or one of the kids? She chose to be with another man instead of her family, and she wasn't worried about lying to do it or neglecting her family. Again, bad wife/bad mother.

3) When caught lying tries to turn things around and make you feel guilty and put you on the defensive. Typical as it gets, deflect the truth, lie, lie, lie.

Again Maven you HAVE to see how wrong this is, don't second guess yourself. Today you need to start protecting yourself, put a spending limit on credit cards, stop putting money in any saving accounts, use a safe deposit box. Do not take out any loans, do not make any major purchases. Start checking spending history and phone records, I am going to guess you are going to find lots more evidence. Start writing everything down, dates and facts. Most courts don't let infidelity be a factor when it comes to splitting assets but if she shows a history of neglectful parenting you may be able to get full custody of the girls. I did with my kids.

Right now you're thinking "whys he talking about divorce already?" You came to this site asking advice, spend some time reading other post and how things turn out, many on here have "been there done that". At this point you can hope for the best but you need to start planning for the worst, that's my advice.


----------



## SlowlyGettingWiser

You have some major problems!

1) You change yourself to accommodate your wife's demands, but it's never enough, is it? There is always something MORE to change about yourself.

2) She, on the other hand, feels no need for reciprocity; you should 'take her as she is'...no need to change her behaviors for YOU or anybody else. Hypocritical much?

3) You ACCEPT this as the way things are!

4) Your wife does NOT respect you. You're a "nice guy" (and around here, that's NOT a good thing! being a 'nice person' a 'good person' is great...being a 'nice guy' is poison to YOU and to a relationship).

5) Wife and her best male friend are having an Emotional Affair (even if they don't hold hands, kiss, have sex,)! She is spending time, energy, emotion on HIM that she should be spending on YOU!

You need to read 'No More Mr. Nice Guy', and 'Married Man's Sex Life Primer' (I think that's the name of it). You need to stand up, state clearly what your boundaries are, and enforce them. 

You need some Individualized Counseling to find out why you're so loathe to stand up for yourself and require equal, respectful treatment such as you give your wife.

Please read those books in the next 2 weeks, set up a 1/2 dozen sessions of Individual Counseling, and start from there! 

Best wishes to you and your family for a healthier 2014!


----------



## mablenc

I'd stop trusting her "completly' you told her to stop and she ran to see him. That makes him a priority over you.


----------



## Omego

This is a crazy story. She is acting like a college student in a dorm. Please follow the advice of all of the other posters.


----------



## syhoybenden

No way you can believe anything she says.
She is in an affair, if not physical then at least emotional.
At your age you should be in your good earning years. Surely you can afford a PI, or at the very least a GPS locator and a couple of VARs.
You need them.


----------



## Malaise

OP

Do you really not know what's going on here?

Or do you not want to admit it to yourself and face a tough decision?


----------



## Satya

We see lots of posts like this, and they always start the same ... flaunting the good points of the relationship as some sort of preface to almost excuse her behavior before you start calling her out on the bad things. My feeling is, it doesn't matter if you believe you are soul mates, a match made in Heaven, or your sex is earth-shatteringly phenomenal. There are literally thousands of women out there who could fit that bill for you. All of that says nothing about her value system. If she is fundamentally disrespecting you then she is not taking the marriage seriously. We don't get married to pull the wool over our spouses eyes. With time and complacency we sometimes do forget to put effort in, which is why there are so many people here who have learned or shared what it is (to them) that helps to keep a marriage strong. The health of the marriage is both your responsibility. The lying and deception is all on her.

Has she ever invited this guy friend around while you are home? Has she ever invited you out with the two of them?

He SHOULD feel awkward to find himself face-to-face with a woman's husband at 4AM! Let me ask you... as you were standing there, did you get the feeling like YOU were the intruder, rather than him?

She lies to you about where she's going and then makes it impossible for you to reach her. She doesn't want you ruining her fun. You are an inconvenience. This is childish behavior.

Sounds like you need to surprise her more with unannounced visits.

Maybe you're not spending enough time with her or maybe she feels she can get away with things because you haven't taken a stand (yet). That is your own inner journey to investigate, but everyone here will I think agree when I say that you should not allow her to justify behavior by saying things like "he's just a friend." Read "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass and I think you'll have a fresher perspective.

What you'll get here is advice on the actions that have been happening and what you could (and should) do in return. Actions speak louder than words. She tells you one thing and then does another. You tell her you're upset and then don't follow through... Well, she'll try harder to push against your boundaries if she sees there's no consequence for her actions.

I wish I could give expert advice but my relationship came to an abrupt end before I could have confronted. I am experienced with deception, though. It is poison to the very core of any relationship, in my opinion. I do believe that based on what facts you've shared so far, that she is cheating on you and getting physical with this man. You don't lie and go over to a man's house just to sit around and play tiddlywinks.

I think you'll get more sage advice from others here who have really been in your shoes. I wish you all the best.


----------



## sparkyjim

How would I feel?

I would feel like she is cheating on me... or is about to.

And flipping it back on you is the ultimate smoke and mirrors game.


----------



## Numlock

Put your feet down buddy. Keep it simple with an easy question to her. Is her having guy friends more important then your feelings? This is a yes or no question and you should know where to take your relationship according to the answer.


----------



## happyman64

Maven

You have every right to be concerned.

Because your wife is a f'n liar.

That should be your primary concern.

She needs to grow up.

So what are you going to do about it???

HM
PS
There was a person who posted about his wife doing the same selfish behavior. He thought she was cheating but she had not gotten to that level of behavior.

He improved himself. Became very Alpha. went out more with his friends and spent more quality time with his kids.

His wife noticed, got jealous in fact and changed her behavior for the better.

But his wife was not a liar.

Do not let your wife play you for a fool or turn her bad behavior back on you as if you have the issues in the marriage.

Be firm.


----------



## jorgegene

Threads like these actually make me mad for the OP, because often we behaving spouses get manipulated into second guessing ourselves and wondering if they're fight, when they are acting selfish and immature.

This spouse need a big time wake-up call.

Maven; don't second guess yourself, you know you are right.


----------



## struggle

I agree with the responses here. If she hasn't cheated already she's on the brink, she's thinking about it. An emotional affair with the guy-friend at the very least. Especially since she's lying about where she is when she goes to see him.

I never stood up for myself when my X did the same behavior with turning things around and making it MY fault when I called him out on things I didn't like. I needed to be ok with possibly 'losing' my marriage by standing up for myself and what's right. Get over that fear before it's too late. In the end she might make the decision for you and you won't have a choice. Be strong, I'm sorry to hear about your frustration and you have the right to be upset about what she's been doing.


----------



## Wolf1974

Umm.

At min she is having an emotional affair, more likely she is having a physical and emotional affair. Sorry your life is about to take a downward spin. Good luck


----------



## 6301

Your fault. Your fault. YOUR FAULT. Look. You make changes in your life and behavior to appease her and because of it, you give her the green light to expect/demand more.

You come home a 4AM and there's some guy with your wife and both are drunk. Why. 

She tells you she's going to a yoga class and doesn't come home until much later and you use the "find my lying wife gizmo" on your phone and she's at the same guys house and all the while she's telling you that "he's just a friend."

What's going to happen if the day comes when you find this guy in bed with your wife and she's doing oral sex on him and she tells you that she's just re inflating him because he's low on air and not to worry about it. Your going to believe her because SHE TOLD YOU TO.

Wake up friend and let her know that her actions and behavior are in need of serious change and if she can't handle it then she's gone. If she gives you any bad mouthing, tell her to put it sideways and you don't want to here about it and let her know that this friendship with this guy is over and if you catch her phoning, texting or meeting him, then her ass is out the door and I would let him know that your wife is off limits. 

One piece of advice with your wife. She's blowing smoke up your ass and your buying it. Open your eyes and start taking control of the situation because if you don't re read my fourth paragraph because it may come true sooner than you think. 

Your wife has no boundaries and that's because you haven't set any.


----------



## Hicks

Your wife's behavior is wrong on many levels. It's so wrong you appear to be brainwashed since you are even confused about it.


----------



## warlock07

It breaks my heart to see how much trust this guy has for his wife.


----------



## treyvion

Maven said:


> Hi all, I am a 35 year old man married to my wife for 8 years. We have two beautiful little girls ages 7 and 4. Our relationship is very loving, we both believe we are each others soul mates, well, at least I do. My wife says she loves me blindly and I truly do feel loved by her. We are both in very good shape and both very much physically attracted to each other. Sex is amazing, it's been getting better and better each passing year. I mean compared to some other marriages, I think we are very lucky to still have the same passion as we did when we first met. We only have 1-2 serious arguments per year, but always find a way to work it out and get over the hump. I am starting to think though that the only reason that is, is because I am always trying to mold myself and to better fit my wife's expectations of a great husband. Every time she has an issue with something, I listen to her and change my behavior to make her happy. The problem is, that when I have an issue with something she does, she always makes it seem that it is my problem and I should just except her as she is and deal with it...
> 
> Here is the issue I am having... How would you feel???
> 
> I come home from a business trip unannounced at 4am in the morning and I find my wive's very good guy friend at the house. They are a little drunk, and seem pretty surprised to see me home. He acts a little uncomfortable, but I would too if someone's husband walked in on me at their house at 4am in the morning. I know the guy, but we are not good friends. The were not doing anything inappropriate, but I think it is very strange and disrespectful to have a guy over till 4am when you are married and a mother and you have responsibilities in the morning with the kids, it's Tuesday night by the way. So I make a big stink about it, my wife assures me that she thinks of this guy as a brother and stuff and never in any romantic way, and I believe her but never the less I think it is very inappropriate in my opinion. I would never have a female over till 4am if she was away on business. I think it is disrespectful.
> 
> Few days later, while I am still bitter about the previous incident. My wife and a friend go to a girl yoga related gathering and I stay home with the kids. She tells me that they will be home by midnight. Well, midnight comes and goes and it's 1am so I give her a call, since I am waiting up for her. After 3 attempts when she did not pick up the phone, I activate the "Find My Phone" feature on my iPhone and since we are on the same account, I see where she is at. Partly because I am worried because she is not answering my calls. I see that she is at her Guy friend's house. The same guy from the night before. At 1:30am after what happened a few days earlier and I voiced my concern that I did not want her hanging out with this guy at inappropriate hours of the night. I trust her completely and I don't suspect that she is cheating on me at all, it's more about the respect of being a responsible wife. I would not do this with a female friend, and I know she would not approve of me doing the same. But when I confronted her about it, she flips it on me and says that it is my jealousy and lack of self love that is making me have all these feelings and that she is honest with me and never lied to me about anything. She accuses me of spying on her when she has given me no reason to, and says that I basically have no right to feel hurt and broken-hearted because she is always truthful with me. So I ask her just because you don't lie, that means you can do whatever you want? I have repeatedly asked her not to hang out with this guy till the wee hours of the morning with him and his 20something single friends. She is married, but want's to live the life of a single person that stays up till 5am or even spends the night at his place on occasions and expects me to feel that this is normal and ok and not be upset by it.
> 
> Am I wrong for feeling disrespected? How would you feel if your husband/wife behaved this way? What would you do?
> 
> Thanks for the replies ahead of time.


Hey bro... Much love to you. Seriously, a single 20's guy is not going to use alot of time on a female he's not getting laid with or not making progress on. He'd use that time for ladies who are offering sex to him. He could have female friends, he just wouldn't be using his time on non sexual female friends when he could be having sex or making progress on those who are allowing it.

So if they are not having sex ( which it is more likely they are ) they are on the way to it, and she's enjoying the attention.

VAR the cars and places she would talk on the phone, spy app on the cellie.

I'm about to do it for peace of mind in a sitiatuion where my current woman "is not married and with kids", so she pushes the envelope for being in a relationship.


----------



## warlock07

OP, think about this.

If she is cheating, are you in a position to find about it ? I get it that the thought of her cheating is so alien to you that you refuse to consider it. 

Blind trust is sometimes not good. People are fallible. Good people make mistakes. Your wife is no exception.


----------



## treyvion

Great advice on the thread. We were talking about how hard it is to get a cheater or lier to really hear you, and you literally have to stop talking to them or stop supporting them.

Another thing you can do... If you had some single friends that you cut off contact on out of respect for your relationship. Start talking to them again, start hanging with them again, and give her a few 4-6AM or next day'ers to worry about herself.

When they are doing you, they build themself up so much over you, and the OM, they could never imagine it being done to them.

She really wants you to sit there in the house waiting on her to return. Take that from her and take your life back.


----------



## Philat

Sigh. Maven, start by adjusting your thinking to realize that being alone with this guy drunk at 4 am is HIGHLY inappropriate, and extrapolate from there. Best wishes.


----------



## bryanp

You would have to be in major denial to think your wife is not screwing this guy. If the roles were reversed would your wife be acting as passive as you have been? You are being played for a fool. Your wife clearly has no respect for you to bring this man to your home and you catching them at 4 am. In addition, she has no problem lying to you where she is which is with this man.
If you do not respect yourself then who will? No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change.


----------



## anchorwatch

Another "Nice Guy" afraid of the unknown outcome of setting proper boundaries. Let me tell you son, the outcome is respect.


----------



## ThePheonix

Maven said:


> I am starting to think though that the only reason that is, is because I am always trying to mold myself and to better fit my wife's expectations of a great husband. Every time she has an issue with something, I listen to her and change my behavior to make her happy.


In other words you are absolutely no challenge and bore her to tears. I can see you're a real alpha male my man. I know your side of the story is what a great marriage and sex life you have. From the way you describe it and what's going on, you may need to consider that you are the only one out of the two of you with the great marriage and sex life. I'd like to hear her side of the story.


----------



## Graywolf2

You’re already on record telling her that you don’t want her to see this guy. It’s time to shut up and secretly investigate. If you keep making an issue of it she will just be more careful. 

You don’t want to go off half****ed when you have kids. Make sure of your facts.

There are posts about how to spy at the following link by our resident experts “weightlifter” and “john1068.” Weightlifter has two posts on that page. Look at the long one.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/172882-1st-post-my-struggle-2.html#post7464138


----------



## Refuse to be played

I can't comprehend being this trusting. Hell you don't even need to investigate. More than enough already to demand a polygraph.


----------



## Remains

Do some investigating. Do not tell her what you are doing, she will know how to hide it better. Look at her phone.... does she have it glued to her? The phone is the place to start. And the phone records. This is not a good situation. You need to take hold of this now.


----------



## anchorwatch

Maven, why in the world would you change who you are to fit what she wants? She was attractive to who you were. Not who you think she would want? 

Here... In case you're still reading, take a look at this No More Mr Nice Guy

And don't be gaslighted by her lies. She's attracted to him, that's why she's seeking his company.


----------



## Vishal

Maven, I believe your wife might be going through some type of mid life crisis. Believe it or not, it comes a little sooner for women than men. I know because something very similar happened to me and unfortunately it did not end well for me at first. My wife also said the same thing "trust me, he's like a brother to me... I have no romantic feelings for him". Though women may believe this at first - and maybe your wife does in fact feel this "at the moment" - I feel it could result in something terrible. The truth is, there is obviously something your wife is getting from this guy that you are not giving. I'm not talking about sex. Instead, I'm speaking about an emotional connection. Not sure what it is but I would be extremely worried about what is going on. Your "gut" is usually right most of the time. I really hope you can get through this Maven. What you described does not look good and she obviously doesn't respect the marriage like she should. I wish you the best man. This is not an easy place to be!


----------



## the guy

Besides your wife spending the night with another man, what other disrespectful things does she do to you?

If you are so confident that she is not cheating then what is the problem?

Is this having an effect on your young children?


Well enough of the questions. Your wife is cheating on you and the kids...her priority is with the other guy and if it was me I'd go find a women that made me a priority and before that i would drop the kids off were ever she is at and force her to make the kids a priority.

Sucks to have to use the kids as the sacrificial lamb to make a point but your old lady needs a hard dose of reality.

In short I would shut this crap down in a heart beat no matter how phucked up it looks like.
Sure call me the bad guy but at the end of the day that disrespectful wife would be couch surfing with 3 kids and no money, while I spend a few nights in Vegas......but then again I'm not a nice guy that gets walked on.


----------



## BobSimmons

I await OP's reply before commenting.


----------



## treyvion

the guy said:


> Besides your wife spending the night with another man, what other disrespectful things does she do to you?
> 
> If you are so confident that she is not cheating then what is the problem?
> 
> Is this having an effect on your young children?
> 
> 
> Well enough of the questions. Your wife is cheating on you and the kids...her priority is with the other guy and if it was me I'd go find a women that made me a priority and before that i would drop the kids off were ever she is at and force her to make the kids a priority.
> 
> Sucks to have to use the kids as the sacrificial lamb to make a point but your old lady needs a hard dose of reality.
> 
> In short I would shut this crap down in a heart beat no matter how phucked up it looks like.
> Sure call me the bad guy but at the end of the day that disrespectful wife would be couch surfing with 3 kids and no money, while I spend a few nights in Vegas......but then again I'm not a nice guy that gets walked on.


It's about to go down.

I've never been to Vegas, but about to do a trip for my ego here pretty soon.

Looks like Bally's was unusually low priced for the time I would spend there, and I could go to Caesers instead.

Wanted your comments, and I want to be around alot of out of towners coming there for the full glory of Hedonism!


----------



## melw74

God, If my husband came home and found another man in my home at 4 in the morning he would go off his nut.

Your wife is so bloody disrespectful on so many levels.

I do not care if she says hes a friend or not, she should not have him in your home when your not around, and what the hell would she be doing at that hour anyway???.

Going out with her mates telling you what time she will be back, and failing to come home, then you find shes at this guys house again...... Disgusting behaviour.

If shes your wife then she better start acting like one because shes clearly not, and NO your not being unreasonable in the slightest, but if i was you, I would really speak to your wife about this so called man shes spending a lot of her time with.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

I think it's healthy to have time apart to spend with friends on occasion. One to two times a week should not be too much to ask. If she's been truthful in the past, give her the benefit of the doubt now.


----------



## the guy

treyvion said:


> It's about to go down.
> 
> I've never been to Vegas, but about to do a trip for my ego here pretty soon.
> 
> Looks like Bally's was unusually low priced for the time I would spend there, and I could go to Caesers instead.
> 
> Wanted your comments, and I want to be around alot of out of towners coming there for the full glory of Hedonism!


The Palms is good, alot of younger growed...

But I also suggest the Golden Nugget cuz it right across from a strip club its on Fairmont St so its not like crossing the strip.

The strip always has all the out of towners so thats never an issue...fav is the Strat. its one of 4 that have a topless pool and its very low key for me and the old lady.


----------



## hopefulgirl

A lot of people think opposite sex friends when you're married are OK. Until they learn that they aren't.

Shirley Glass' book NOT Just Friends explains this best. Marital boundaries, how the slippery slope is so dangerous, what kinds of people are more vulnerable to affairs, emotional affairs morphing into physical affairs, what kinds of situations to avoid, etc.

Alone with him at 4 am - not OK.

Turning her phone off that late at night when she said she'd be with yoga girls and sneaking around to be with that guy - not OK.

If they haven't had sex yet, it won't be long, if you don't put a stop to it. It's an emotional affair for sure, at least. Sorry.


----------



## lordmayhem

The ONLY way I would not hit the roof on this is if I know this guy is gay. That would be the only exception.

This is an Emotional Affair at the very minimum, but most likely its a full on Physical Affair by her actions. Follow the advice given to you.


----------



## Kendall

Thound said:


> She may really think the guy is just a friend, but I gaurrantee if she offered him sex he would take it.
> 
> I don't believe in opposite sex friendships. Just too much drama.


I found out personally, almost the hard way, that platonic opposite sex friendships are NOT platonic.

OP, I'll tell you what someone told me when I was in denial over my friendship with a guy at work: you're wife is being played, and it seems like you're sort of encouraging it.

Luckily, I found out that was true before I made the mistake of my life. I hope your wife does too.


----------



## NativeSun09

Your wife is lying about something. Force her to come clean and be firm about it. Her actions are totally inappropriate.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ThePheonix

Satya said:


> You don't lie and go over to a man's house just to sit around and play tiddlywinks.


I wonder how many on this site or elsewhere believes this chick goes to this guys house and does not sleep with him. When a married woman comes to a males friends house to spend the night, it means they are sleeping together. Nobody with walking around sense is as likely naive as Maven claims be.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

The OP's wife may be telling the truth. She should have the benefit of the doubt at this point in time.


----------



## harrybrown

File for divorce and get tested for stds.

She is having sex with him. Wake up and respect yourself. She does not respect you. Go see your attorney.

Have her sign an agreement that if she never cheated, that you get custody of the kids, she pays child support and you get all the property.


----------



## the guy

Plan 9 from OS said:


> The OP's wife may be telling the truth. She should have the benefit of the doubt at this point in time.


Says the poster with the clown aviatar

Even if this OM is completely gay..OP's old lady is cheating her family out of a healthy marriage.


----------



## Chaparral

lordmayhem said:


> The ONLY way I would not hit the roof on this is if I know this guy is gay. That would be the only exception.
> 
> This is an Emotional Affair at the very minimum, but most likely its a full on Physical Affair by her actions. Follow the advice given to you.


Remember the poster that lost his wife to a an emotional affair to a gay guy living with another man in New York city? Him and his two kids lost out to a man she no doubt thought she could straighten out.


----------



## Chaparral

One post, four pages, must have hit a nerve. Drive by?


----------



## the guy

OP must of reread his post and figured it all out.

Sometimes thats all it takes is to reread the nonsence you just wrote down to see through the forest.


----------



## happyman64

Plan 9 from OS said:


> The OP's wife may be telling the truth. She should have the benefit of the doubt at this point in time.


Why should she have the benefit of the doubt?

She lied.

Do you trust liars?

Especially when it is your wife lying to you.....


----------



## thummper

So, Maven, how long are you going to put up with this situation. If I had ever come home at 4 a.m. and found another man alone with my wife, I would have exploded on both of them. You're being made a fool of, buddy. And she's laughing at you behind your back because she knows, from your own actions, that she can pretty much do whatever she wants to and there'll be no repercussions from you other than some kind of lame "I confronted her." Big deal. Talk is cheap.  You need to get to the bottom of why she's being this way, and either make some changes in your relationship, or kick her a$$ out. Then she can spend EVERY night with her guy friends without any flack from you. Maybe that's what she's aiming at hoping that you'll end things so she doesn't have to.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Maven said:


> I come home from a business trip unannounced at 4am in the morning and I find my wive's very good guy friend at the house. They are a little drunk, and seem pretty surprised to see me home.





Maven said:


> Few days later, while I am still bitter about the previous incident. I see that she is at her Guy friend's house. The same guy from the night before. At 1:30am after what happened a few days earlier and I voiced my concern that I did not want her hanging out with this guy at inappropriate hours of the night.





Maven said:


> She is married, but want's to live the life of a single person that stays up till 5am or even spends the night at his place on occasions and expects me to feel that this is normal and ok and not be upset by it.


Your story bares an incredible similarity to mine in many ways... Let me ask you a few rhetorical questions. WHY would a married women spend SO much time with another man? What could they be possibly be talking about at 4am or all the time for that matter? Why are you not invited to hang out with them?

You need to wake up man. She's FVCKING this guy. Don't be stupid. I know you want to believe that she's not because no one WANTS to believe their spouse is capable of that. I didn't but it's the truth. There is no other LOGICAL explanation. No one's that interesting at 4am. Just because they were clothed doesn't mean she wasn't blowing him 30 seconds before you walked in the door. 

I'm 100% sure she's cheating. I'm guessing you're not. You're next move is to dark and get the proof. Check her text messages, use software to recover the deleted ones. Key logger on the computer. Plant some VARs in the car and in your house. It shouldn't take long to bust her. Then dump her lying a$$. With the level of disrespect she has shown you, she comes off as a remorseless cheater.

Sorry you're here.


----------



## Maven

I really want to thank each and every one of you for your honest input. I pretty much agree with everything that has been said. I really do not believe that this is a physical affair, but I do totally agree that it is an emotional one. I am going to take a lot of the advice you are giving me. I already got the "Not Just Friends" book and am about to read it tonight. Hopefully it will give me a different perspective on some things.

My initial reaction was just to say fk it and get a separation. I really am not the type of guy who let's people walk all over me. But the fact that we have two young daughters and I love her to death makes things a bit more complicated. A lot of you who have centered your life around your family might know what I am talking about. It is not just that easy to throw away life as you know it and jump into the unknown. 

The thing I care most about right now is protecting my girls and making sure they do not get effected by all this stupid behavior. My biggest fear is that if we separate, both her and I will be fine after a while, but our little girls will be devastated. It just baffles me that she does not realize that, and is putting our kids well being above her self centered need do whatever makes her feel good at the moment without concern of the consequences it will bring to our relationship and ultimately to our family and our kids. 

I will try my best to save our marriage and put down some hard boundaries which I should have done a long time ago, but at this point I am questioning her commitment to the relationship. I do hear all of you, and I am ready to take my head out of the sand and see things as they really are. I guess it will all be up to her to decide if she wants me in her life in the future in a healthy mutually respectful relationship or she wants out. Either way, I am doing something about it. I have already let this nonsense go on for too long. 

Thanks to all of you again for the help, I do really appreciate it. I will address some individual comments as I read through them again, and keep the discussion open to future posts. 

OP - Maven


----------



## BetrayedDad

Maven said:


> I really do not believe that this is a physical affair, but I do totally agree that it is an emotional one.


If anything you have no reason to believe it's NOT a physical affair other than the words of a proven LIAR. They spend so much time together alone, late at night and drunk what the hell else could they be doing? I'd assume the worst and go from there. It's almost IMPOSSIBLE it hasn't gone physical. 

I know you want to save your marriage but first you have to realize how deep the rabbit hole goes before you make that kind of decision and you're still in denial.


----------



## anchorwatch

His Needs, Her Needs: Building an Affair-Proof Marriage: Willard F. Jr. Harley

Boundaries in Marriage: Henry Cloud, John Townsend


----------



## BobSimmons

How are these "hard boundaries" enforceable when you've already stated you don't want her seeing this guy, to which she replied by going over to his house anyway.

You put the line in the sand and she crossed it, so now you're drawing another line. A bit pointless, no?


----------



## lifeistooshort

Two words to describe your wife's actions: bull and sh!t.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Maven

95% of the people think this is a physical affair. I am trying to give her all the benefit of the doubt but I too can't stop thinking that this is much more then friends. Her defense is that every time I asked her about where she was or what she was doing she always told me the truth... I have never caught her in a lie, but this is providing that I ask specifically. In her eyes, if she omits that truth, and I do not ask her about it, it is not hiding or lying. I doubt very much she would have told me that this guys was over till 4am had I not come home. 

Providing that all of the time they hang out at his house this late it is always with a group of people, many of which are family and friends that I know and know me, I am sure nothing is going on there... But never the less, it is still disrespectful to me, since I have asked her numerous times to be home on time and she never is. But in her eyes that is not a lie, when she tells me she will be home at a certain hour and doesn't come home till morning. But, on the other hand she expects me to be a man of my word and has a fit if I say I will do something and don't come through. 

To be fair, I myself had a bad gambling problem our 1st year of marriage and I hid and lied to her about it. I came clean and got help, ever since then I have never - ever done anything behind her back or lied to her. I have been out of town on many occasions for business, many times to Vegas on my own. I have not once put myself in a situation that would make her question me. For the last 7 years I have been walking a straight line and have used my bad past as a motivation to be the best husband and father I could be. Yet, she still brings up the past and holds it over my head and makes me feel guilty for expecting the same commitment from her in return. Maybe this is the reason that I have let her get away with this for so long, because I still feel guilty for what I did in the beginning. But, after 7 years of being good and paying the price, I think it is time I stop feeling guilty over it and take back my self respect...


----------



## Rugs

Maven, my advice is stick around the forum and read some other stories.

I have not read one story that started out innocent enough that didn't turn out to be much more. Just my observation.

Being at his house at 1:30 am bothers me more than him being at your house at 4:00am. At his house, there is no other reason to be there other than sex. Of course she is never going to admit this so don't even try to confront her about a physical affair this point.

Set your boundaries with her ASAP and then be on high snooping alert. Please be secretive at this point or you will never know the truth.

Yes, this is a harsh crowd but everyone here has been where you are and are just trying to get you to stay awake and not fall under your wife's spell.

Take all this to heart but not personally. Do not be scared away and this forum should pay off for you. 

Best of luck.


----------



## ThePheonix

Maven said:


> I really do not believe that this is a physical affair, but I do totally agree that it is an emotional one.





BetrayedDad said:


> If anything you have no reason to believe it's NOT a physical affair other than the words of a proven LIAR.


I agree with BD on this one Mav. It's just a matter of time before you get the old, "I love you but I'm not in love with you" speech.
A chick crazy about her husband don't slip off to spend time with another man. No matter how you cut it, the prima facie evidence show she'd rather spend her evenings and nights with the boyfriend than with you.


----------



## 6301

Maven said:


> To be fair, I myself had a bad gambling problem our 1st year of marriage and I hid and lied to her about it. I came clean and got help, ever since then I have never - ever done anything behind her back or lied to her.


 So should your wife. She might be over at that guys house with a bunch of other people but when you come home at 4AM and this guy is there, then friend, that's unacceptable to anyone and if you don't start real soon setting up boundaries and making her keep them, the all your doing is whistling past the grave yard. 

 If she gets mad, too bad. She has a choice. Act like a married woman and respect her husband or become a single woman and take a walk. Your choice. Your life. You decide.


----------



## Graywolf2

Maven said:


> She brings up the past and holds it over my head and makes me feel guilty for expecting the same commitment from her in return. Maybe this is the reason that I have let her get away with this for so long, because I still feel guilty for what I did... 7 years ago.



If you don’t want a divorce you can still benefit from spying on her. If you catch her you can say that you two are now even for what you did 7 years ago. Then it will be time to make a new commitment to your marriage and family.

All I'm saying is that you need to know the facts no matter what you wind up doing. You need to spy.


----------



## nuclearnightmare

Kendall said:


> I found out personally, almost the hard way, that platonic opposite sex friendships are NOT platonic.
> 
> OP, I'll tell you what someone told me when I was in denial over my friendship with a guy at work: you're wife is being played, and it seems like you're sort of encouraging it.
> 
> Luckily, I found out that was true before I made the mistake of my life. I hope your wife does too.


Sounds more to me like the OPs wife is playing the OP.
OP - I think your first move should to tell your wife she's full of ****. That you don't trust her or believe her, and ask her what she intends to do about it.


----------



## tom67

Put a voice activated recorder in her car asap.


----------



## Chaparral

A lie of omission is still a bald face lie. Not telling you she is going to another mans house is a lie. Not telling you how many times they have been together is a lie.

Telling you she is going to to yoga and coming home a twelve(what yoga class lasts that long) and going to his house till 1:30 is a bald faced , cheaters, divorceable lie.

I told my wife after the first time she went out with her office buddies and I was specifically not invited, her things would be in a garbage bag on the front porch and the locks would be changed. My wife will stand up to anybody but she just grined and never came close to that crap again.

Be prepared to go to the wall. She has pushed you around and that's a big reason she has lost respect.


----------



## Chaparral

Have you checked phone cell/ text records yet?


----------



## tom67

Chaparral said:


> A lie of omission is still a bald face lie. Not telling you she is going to another mans house is a lie. Not telling you how many times they have been together is a lie.
> 
> Telling you she is going to to yoga and coming home a twelve(what yoga class lasts that long) and going to his house till 1:30 is a bald faced , cheaters, divorceable lie.
> 
> I told my wife after the first time she went out with her office buddies and I was specifically not invited, her things would be in a garbage bag on the front porch and the locks would be changed. My wife will stand up to anybody but she just grined and never came close to that crap again.
> 
> Be prepared to go to the wall. She has pushed you around and that's a big reason she has lost respect.


You have to draw a line in the sand NOW!


----------



## WorkingOnMe

You can't really be that naive. Wow. Well I guess you can. Your response is following the predictable standard patter to being confronted with the truth. Right down to the back peddling, justifications and mentioning your own past faults. So standard it would be laughable if not so sad.


----------



## RyanBingham

Chaparral said:


> A lie of omission is still a bald face lie. Not telling you she is going to another mans house is a lie. Not telling you how many times they have been together is a lie.
> 
> Telling you she is going to to yoga and coming home a twelve*(what yoga class lasts that long*) and going to his house till 1:30 is a bald faced , cheaters, divorceable lie.


Maybe she was practicing the downward dog pose? :rofl:


----------



## Horizon

RyanBingham said:


> Maybe she was practicing the downward dog pose? :rofl:


Is this tough love Ryan? I confess I had a chuckle but have a heart old boy.


----------



## RClawson

Maven,

I have not seen the word "Fog" invoked yet but your wife is in one and reason is not going to bring her out of it. There must be a shock to the system. Boundary's and follow through with consequences if she crosses the line.

We all know what your are feeling in regards to the safe place you have built for your family but you will likely have to rock the boat to save your marriage from the threat your wife refuses to see but continues to participate in.

I do like your idea of regaining your self respect back. Marinade on that overnight. We are hoping for the best for you and your family.


----------



## confusedFather

You say you don't think this was a PA. Why do you think that? If you were hearing this story about someone else what would you think? Do you think this because it's what you want to believe? That's what I did. I listened to my fWW lies and believed them. I found out the truth over 20 years later.

Even if it's not it is an EA. She should not be with another man if you don't want her with him, especially into the late morning drunk.
She should respect your wishes here. You are a couple not two individuals doing whatever they want.

My advise:
1. Really think about why you believe her.
2. Get a VAR in her car. Weightlifter has good advise about this.
3. Have a very serious discussion with her about NC with this guy. This is an EA not a friendship. At least not for him. Read Kendall's thread.
4. Get into MC with an experience counselor. She needs to learn how to respect you.


----------



## omoplata

Maven said:


> I really do not believe that this is a physical affair, but I do totally agree that it is an emotional one.


Guys don't hangout and drink with women until 4am just to chat. Did you say him and his friends are in their 20s? I'm still in my 20s. Anytime an older chick has been over late at night it's because she's having sex with someone. I don't think I've ever heard of a scenario similar to yours where something wasn't going down.


----------



## warlock07

Maven, what would change if this was a physical affair?


----------



## lordmayhem

WorkingOnMe said:


> You can't really be that naive. Wow. Well I guess you can. Your response is following the predictable standard patter to being confronted with the truth. Right down to the back peddling, justifications and mentioning your own past faults. So standard it would be laughable if not so sad.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

The standard BS in denial scenario.


----------



## TRy

Maven said:


> 95% of the people think this is a physical affair. I am trying to give her all the benefit of the doubt but I too can't stop thinking that this is much more then friends. Her defense is that every time I asked her about where she was or what she was doing she always told me the truth... I have never caught her in a lie, but this is providing that I ask specifically. In her eyes, if she omits that truth, and I do not ask her about it, it is not hiding or lying. I doubt very much she would have told me that this guys was over till 4am had I not come home.


 She has lied directly to you, in addition to lying to you by omission. In your first post you said that "My wife and a friend go to a girl yoga related gathering and I stay home with the kids. She tells me that they will be home by midnight." She thus told you that she would go a girl yoga gathering and be from this gathering by midnight, when in fact she was not coming home from this gathering, she was coming home from the other man's home. Where she was coming home from was a direct lie. Do you see this? Letting her call this a lie by omission, is factually incorrect.

As for the question that is the title to this thread "Am I wrong for thinking that my wife is being very disrespectful to me?", the answer is that you are wrong for thinking that it is only disrespectful, when if fact she is cheating on you with this other man. The fact is you have more evidence than most. The betrayed spouse almost never catches their cheating spouse in the actual act of having sex with their affair partner. With more than 80% of all affairs going completely undetected by the betrayed spouse, the best that they can do is catch them together with the other man a 4am in your home, or at 1:30am in the other man's home.

You are about to realize that you are beginning a dark journey not of your choosing. You are a nice guy that always tries to do the right thing. She knows this, and as a cheater she see this as a weakness to be exploited rather than as a strength to be cherished. No matter how much your wife tries to blame shift this back to you (all cheaters do this), do not let her. Be well and good luck to you. I am sorry that you are here.


----------



## omoplata

I know people can lose contact as they get older but where are the husband's friends during these cheating stories?


----------



## Wideopn Dave

Quote

*But when I confronted her about it, she flips it on me and says that it is my jealousy and lack of self love that is making me have all these feelings and that she is honest with me and never lied to me about anything. She accuses me of spying on her when she has given me no reason to, and says that I basically have no right to feel hurt and broken-hearted because she is always truthful with me.*

End quote

This part!!! Oh wow what a flash back.......

Chap, haven't read the full thread of replies yet but just this part of your original post struck a cord with me.

I, like it seems you do, worshiped my (now ex) wife. I like you truly believed she was pure, honest and in love with me. SIX affairs later I finally realised that she had no respect for me, no respect for our marriage and most importantly, no respect for our daughter!! And yes, she tried to turn it ALL on me, blame me for the fact that SHE CHOSE to behave the way she did. This sort of behaviour is all about opportunity and CHOICE!!

*Maven, your wife is having and emotional affair with her "brother" and its about to (or already has) go (gone) physical.....*

I was fed the same b*ll**** line by my ex wife when our child discovered her in my house with her loverboy "we didnt sleep together" .......what my ex wife did at least "concede" is that if our child hadn't walked in when she did, they would have consumated their relationship. 

Chap, sit her down and explain to her that this is a betrayal for which (if you're prepared to do it) you will give her ONE chance to come clean on. Polygraph time; my ex wife refused to do one so I know full well there was way more than she ever told me....

To answer your question posed in the title; YES!!! Your wife is being extremely disrespectful!


----------



## carpenoctem

Maven:

I am sorry it is here that we meet.

If you had not walked in on them at 4 am,* your truthful wife *would not have told you about it, right?

If you had not found out where she really was when she said she was out with the girls, *your truthful wife *would not have told you about it, right?

The same goes for the rest of it.

If you find out they are sexting, *your truthful wife *will admit to only that much. But nothing more.

If you walk in on them kissing, *your truthful wife* will admit to only that much. But nothing more.

If you walk in on them making out, *your truthful wife* will admit to only that much. But nothing more.

If you walk in on them having oral sex, *your truthful wife* will admit to only that much. But nothing more.

And rest assured, unless you walk in on them having PIV sex, *your truthful wife* will not tell you about it, even if it happens / has happened.

Even if you walk in on them having sex, to your utter bewildrement, she might say: *"It's not what you think!!"*, before starting to blame YOU for it.




*Likeabrother and justafriend and all that. Distilled balderdash.*

It would be better to accept what *you already know* but don't want to countenance, and deal with it.

Hormones trump character most often. She WILL lie and cheat and befool you and your children for that Dopamine rush, once it has begun.

I am sorry to say that, from where I look, it seems to have begun already, Sir.



*Cassandra POV:**
You are worried about ‘disrespect’ when you should begin to worry about STDs and sloppy seconds and extramarital pregnancies and other gross things like those.*


----------



## Rottdad42

Any man for any reason, at my home at 0400 hours, when I'm not there, is pure a** whooping time, especially when she didn't tell me before hand. I don't care what you say, how you spin it, or tell me it's not what it looks like. BS. When a mother of two has kids to care for three hours later, doesn't even care about that. Dude, you have to put the facts together and say all this is not brotherly love. I can't call PA. not enough, but I can think it. Crank it up a notch, give her a line. I will be out of town for two days. Stay at a hotel close by, var her car and the house. Don't forget stop asking her about it, play dumb, dumb. She will blow it, guaranteed then that's when you pounce. No telling how long this has been going on. No more sex with her as well. Two dipsticks in the same oil line, brings contamination (STD's). Man up and stop being walked on, gaslighted, lied to and just plain bullsh**ed. You deserve better, we all do.


----------



## Malaise

He doesn't want to believe. That means he would have to start something messy, and that's out of his comfort zone.

So, he will live with it.


----------



## Chaparral

You need to look up the bff thread. Can anyone link to it?


----------



## Anuvia

Maven said:


> Hi all, I am a 35 year old man married to my wife for 8 years. We have two beautiful little girls ages 7 and 4. Our relationship is very loving, we both believe we are each others soul mates, well, at least I do. My wife says she loves me blindly and I truly do feel loved by her. We are both in very good shape and both very much physically attracted to each other. Sex is amazing, it's been getting better and better each passing year. I mean compared to some other marriages, I think we are very lucky to still have the same passion as we did when we first met. We only have 1-2 serious arguments per year, but always find a way to work it out and get over the hump. I am starting to think though that the only reason that is, is because I am always trying to mold myself and to better fit my wife's expectations of a great husband. Every time she has an issue with something, I listen to her and change my behavior to make her happy. The problem is, that when I have an issue with something she does, she always makes it seem that it is my problem and I should just except her as she is and deal with it...
> 
> Here is the issue I am having... How would you feel???
> 
> *I come home from a business trip unannounced at 4am in the morning and I find my wive's very good guy friend at the house.* They are a little drunk, and seem pretty surprised to see me home. He acts a little uncomfortable, but I would too if someone's husband walked in on me at their house at 4am in the morning. I know the guy, but we are not good friends. The were not doing anything inappropriate, but I think it is very strange and disrespectful to have a guy over till 4am when you are married and a mother and you have responsibilities in the morning with the kids, it's Tuesday night by the way. So I make a big stink about it, my wife assures me that she thinks of this guy as a brother and stuff and never in any romantic way, and I believe her but never the less I think it is very inappropriate in my opinion. I would never have a female over till 4am if she was away on business. I think it is disrespectful.
> 
> Few days later, while I am still bitter about the previous incident. My wife and a friend go to a girl yoga related gathering and I stay home with the kids. She tells me that they will be home by midnight. Well, midnight comes and goes and it's 1am so I give her a call, since I am waiting up for her. After 3 attempts when she did not pick up the phone, I activate the "Find My Phone" feature on my iPhone and since we are on the same account, I see where she is at. Partly because I am worried because she is not answering my calls. I see that she is at her Guy friend's house. The same guy from the night before. At 1:30am after what happened a few days earlier and I voiced my concern that I did not want her hanging out with this guy at inappropriate hours of the night. I trust her completely and I don't suspect that she is cheating on me at all, it's more about the respect of being a responsible wife. I would not do this with a female friend, and I know she would not approve of me doing the same. But when I confronted her about it, she flips it on me and says that it is my jealousy and lack of self love that is making me have all these feelings and that she is honest with me and never lied to me about anything. She accuses me of spying on her when she has given me no reason to, and says that I basically have no right to feel hurt and broken-hearted because she is always truthful with me. So I ask her just because you don't lie, that means you can do whatever you want? I have repeatedly asked her not to hang out with this guy till the wee hours of the morning with him and his 20something single friends. She is married, but want's to live the life of a single person that stays up till 5am or even spends the night at his place on occasions and expects me to feel that this is normal and ok and not be upset by it.
> 
> Am I wrong for feeling disrespected? How would you feel if your husband/wife behaved this way? What would you do?
> 
> Thanks for the replies ahead of time.


I was with you up until this point. This is where I'm calling bullsh1t on this thread and your post. I'm not even reading past the bolded part.


----------



## ConanHub

Dude..... If your for real, you need to brush the footprints off your face and grow a pair.

I can't understand how you are wired. If I found a Guy in my house with my family, he probably wouldn't make it to the ER. If you want respect, earn it. Stand up for yourself and your kids.

Your wife is cheating. The POS gets to boink her in your house with your kids there.

If you can't or won't see the truth, you should stop posting and enjoy eating another mans leftovers.

P.S. I hope your kids enjoy being kissed by their mom after she has been with her boyfriend.

Seriously, protect them at least.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 86857

Maven said:


> Providing that all of the time they hang out at his house this late it is always with a group of people, many of which are family and friends that I know and know me, I am sure nothing is going on there... But never the less, it is still disrespectful to me, since *I have asked her numerous times to be home on time and she never is. *But in her eyes that is not a lie, when she tells me she will be home at a certain hour *and doesn't come home till morning.* But, on the other hand she expects me to be a man of my word and has a fit if I say I will do something and don't come through.


Hmmmm. . . 
Maven, am I reading the above correctly? So how often is she going to this dudes house and hanging out with a bunch of 20 somethings many of who are family and friends that you know? 

And you have 2 little girls? So if they wake up and want Mom?

I'm sorry but it all sounds bizarre to me, bizarre enough for this to be a bogus thread. In a way I hope it is because if it's true, you have got one heartless wife who is insanely controlling. 

As for blaming your gambling that's BS. You fixed it quickly and became the model husband. You are still feeling guilty about it because she has made certain of that and uses it to do whatever she likes.

Snoop my friend because you will probably find out there's more. There almost always is.


----------



## happyman64

Maven



> For the last 7 years I have been walking a straight line and have used my bad past as a motivation to be the best husband and father I could be. Yet, she still brings up the past and holds it over my head and makes me feel guilty for expecting the same commitment from her in return. Maybe this is the reason that I have let her get away with this for so long, because I still feel guilty for what I did in the beginning. But, after 7 years of being good and paying the price, I think it is time I stop feeling guilty over it and take back my self respect...


I think this has a lot to do with the current issues in your marriage.

Whether it is EA or PA is just semantics.

The fact that she is being so disrespectful to you and the marriage are the key issues. 

Her lying by omission just adds fuel to the fire.

Set those boundaries. Let her know the consequences in advance.

Her actions after that will tell you if she still wants to be your wife and the mother of your children.

You will only get respect when you demand it. Stay tough. Be strong.

And do what you say you are going to do.

HM


----------



## RyanBingham

Horizon said:


> Is this tough love Ryan? I confess I had a chuckle but have a heart old boy.


Alright i'll tone it down. 

I understand that OP is making sense of the situation and he has conflicting emotions that are playing at odds with the facts at hand. what gets me is coming home at 4am (seems odd to me, but whatever) and having his wife's guy friend at his house. I would have thrown her out right there and then, but he didn't. The fact that he hasn't defined the consequences which enabled her to do "yoga" at the OM's house later in the week. 

He just needs to now man up and give her very binary options. This or that .... Husband or boyfriend. If she decides the latter, then he at least knows his next move (divorce).


----------



## tom67

RyanBingham said:


> Alright i'll tone it down.
> 
> I understand that OP is making sense of the situation and he has conflicting emotions that are playing at odds with the facts at hand. what gets me is coming home at 4am (seems odd to me, but whatever) and having his wife's guy friend at his house. I would have thrown her out right there and then, but he didn't. The fact that he hasn't defined the consequences which enabled her to do "yoga" at the OM's house later in the week.
> 
> He just needs to now man up and give her very binary options. This or that .... Husband or boyfriend. If she decides the latter, then he at least knows his next move (divorce).


:iagree:
At this point it's the best thing to do.


----------



## Thorburn

*I have repeatedly asked her not to hang out with this guy till the wee hours of the morning with him and his 20something single friends. She is married, but want's to live the life of a single person that stays up till 5am or even spends the night at his place on occasions and expects me to feel that this is normal and ok and not be upset by it.

Am I wrong for feeling disrespected? How would you feel if your husband/wife behaved this way? What would you do?*


Dude, if she is not banging this guy it will be the first time in history that a situation like this had not had sex involved. Disrespect!!!! Total disrespect and you have little for yourself for putting up with this. She is walking all over you. 

The question should not be what would I do? But what would you have done? I would have thrown that SOB out of my house, told him never to have contact with my wife again and looked at my wife and said, how do you want to proceed with the divorce.


*Her defense is that every time I asked her about where she was or what she was doing she always told me the truth... I have never caught her in a lie, but this is providing that I ask specifically. In her eyes, if she omits that truth, and I do not ask her about it, it is not hiding or lying. I doubt very much she would have told me that this guys was over till 4am had I not come home.*

Do you understand the "cheaters script"? Do you have any understanding of how cheaters lie? They lie by ommission, they lie without conscience, they don't stop lying many times until and only until you have hard proof.

1. Get tested for STD's.
2. If she is not having sex with this guy and maybe a bunch of other guys hanging out there, I again will say this is a first.
3. Put a VAR in her car.
4. Go silent on her and gather evidence.
5. Start thinking that this marriage is over.


----------



## ThePheonix

Mav's been given realistic assessments and advice. My only other suggestion if he doesn't want to feel disrespected, is to call her ahead of time and let her know he'll be home early from his business trip.


----------



## Baffled01

_1. Get tested for STD's.
2. If she is not having sex with this guy and maybe a bunch of other guys hanging out there, I again will say this is a first.
3. Put a VAR in her car.
4. Go silent on her and gather evidence.
5. Start thinking that this marriage is over._


PLEASE take this advice OP. Your present situation is a completely unhealthy lifestyle to raise two small children in. Your going to have to have to man-up and begin to accept your marriage may be over.

You seem like the type who is going to need absolute proof of an affair so my advice is to go into James Bond mode for a while. Play dumb. Don't mention her and the OM for a while, make her think you forgot about it to lull her into a false sense of security. Maybe you can fake an out of town trip and stay in a local hotel, then surprise them.


----------



## badmemory

Maven said:


> Providing that all of the time they hang out at his house this late it is always with a group of people, many of which are family and friends that I know and know me, I am sure nothing is going on there... But never the less, it is still disrespectful to me, since I have asked her numerous times to be home on time and she never is.


Staying out late with friends a lot. Yeah, sounds familiar.

My wife and I got into a lot of arguments over that. I told her it was disrespectful to our marriage. And like you, I felt some guilt about asking her to stay home with me all the time; because I didn't really have friends and was not in to partying around. So I just got angry, but didn't do anything about it - other than give her the silent treatment.

But here's the thing. It turned out, that her being disrespectful to our marriage was the least of my worries. She was having a PA with her best friend's husband. She'd use these friendly gatherings as either an excuse or a staging ground to meet up with the POSOM.

We're in R now, but I can tell you she now goes nowhere without me if I'm at home and accounts for her time when I'm not. If I could do it all over again, I would have established that boundary a long time ago; and if she didn't like it - too bad.

Do I think your wife is having a PA? Yes I do. But even if she's not; you'd be well advised to take advantage of my (and others) hard earned lessons.


----------



## tulsy

Maven said:


> ...Her defense is that every time I asked her about where she was or what she was doing she always told me the truth... I have never caught her in a lie, but this is providing that I ask specifically. In her eyes, if she omits that truth, and I do not ask her about it, it is not hiding or lying. I doubt very much she would have told me that this guys was over till 4am had I not come home. ......


With this logic, she can have an affair behind your back and unless you ask her about it, she doesn't have to tell you.

What ridiculous logic. 

It's called "lying by omission", it's very real, and it's happening right now. She knows exactly what she's doing. You need to wake up to reality.

Your wife is a liar, and she cannot be trusted right now. 

I think this is another situation where you have to be willing to lose the marriage in order to even attempt saving it. YOU can't save it alone...either she's on board, or it's over.

You can't control what she does, but you can control what you put up with.


----------



## jorgegene

"My Avatar is from a movie called "Office Space", and the guy is destroying a copy machine...I'm against violence towards living things"

but not against violence toward inanimate objects


----------



## tulsy

jorgegene said:


> "My Avatar is from a movie called "Office Space", and the guy is destroying a copy machine...I'm against violence towards living things"
> 
> but not against violence toward inanimate objects


It's a movie...cult classic. The guy hated the faulty copier that troubled their office for years, and after getting fired he took his aggression out on it.


----------



## SF-FAN

Sorry you're here Maven. I don't understand how or why married women feel it is perfectly fine to hang out with other men at anytime during the day or night. I guess if they label it a "friendship" it makes them feel like they are not doing anything wrong. My WW began by texting her guy "friend" and like a moron, I gave her freedom because she would make me feel like I was being possessive if I told her to stop. Well, she ended up having an affair with her "friend." Be careful, unless your wife is more loyal than mine, no matter what you say, it is going to be hard to stop her from talking to this guy. Good luck.


----------



## RyanBingham

tulsy said:


> It's a movie...cult classic. The guy hated the faulty copier that troubled their office for years, and after getting fired he took his aggression out on it.


"The thing is, Bob, it's not that I'm lazy, it's just I don't care" - peter gibbons :smthumbup:

Bullet point advice on how OP can think about detaching from his lying/cheating wife...the keys to his success are:
1. Assess and accept the situation 
2. Channel the Anger to motivate action within himself (180 my man)
3. Begin Detachment to protect himself and start the healing process
4. Develop and move on and ultimately have Indifference for the WS 
5. and finally acceptance that happiness and his own self worth is his own to create...


----------



## Toffer

Lots of good advice

Your wife at the least is being disrespectful and she's also demonstrated she has no problem lying to you

Time for you to wake up and realize that this is not a good situation at all for you OR your children 

Time to figure out what's going on by investigating and finding out for yourself what's going on

Pull the cell phone records, plant VARs and install a key logger. Plan another trip and instead of leaving town camp out in a hotel room locally or better yet go but hire a PI

I think these waters run deeper than you think
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## phoenix_

BobSimmons said:


> How are these "hard boundaries" enforceable when you've already stated you don't want her seeing this guy, to which she replied by going over to his house anyway.
> 
> You put the line in the sand and she crossed it, so now you're drawing another line. A bit pointless, no?


Exactly. I don't understand how anybody can take this type of disrespect.


----------



## GusPolinski

If you're wrong for anything, it's for thinking that your wife isn't f*cking this guy. Because she is.


----------



## Headspin

Maven said:


> ........... I have never caught her in a lie, but this is providing that I ask specifically. In her eyes, if she omits that truth, and I do not ask her about it, it is not hiding or lying.


In case this is genuine ...

I'll just rephrase your line with the actual reality of it all - 

_I have never caught her in a truth_ !!!

Do you for a second understand that *your wife is treating you with complete and utter contempt - nil respect - NONE*
.
Of course you have to be in denial to protect yourself but now as you watch this thread unfold do you for one moment think you actually have anything here to save? 

Take her keys off her, shut the door behind her and live. She needs to be crawling back to you for you to even contemplate a future with her 

As a side issue check out a million threads on here where any man in your position tried to 'nice' his cheating scumbag of a wife to return back to him.

DO it 

.....and you will find there aren't any success stories - Not even one No human male in history ever managed nicely to persuade his treacherous wife (or husband) to drop their affair partner and return to the loving arms of her husband - NOT ONE - so you will not be setting a precedent there

By exposing the affair treachery to the world - public, family, friends, you blow her/them to pieces and whilst she is putting herself back together without her lover to run too she just might start to realize what a complete evil bastard she's been not only to you but your two children to to actually put all this on the line 

Also consider this anyway - if this has not gone the 'full distance' blowing them up is the very best way to ensure she will never never take you so lightly again


----------



## Baffled01

_Originally Posted by Maven 
Providing that all of the time they hang out at his house this late it is always with a group of people, many of which are family and friends that I know and know me, I am sure nothing is going on there... But never the less, it is still disrespectful to me, since I have asked her numerous times to be home on time and she never is. _


Keep in mind, some friends may be aware of the situation but not wanting to get involved. Others, especially her gf's, may even cover-up for her. Alot of women find it romantic and are turned on by it. It happens all the time, careful who you trust. 

Which family members are involved? You may want to make some discreet personal inquiries.


----------



## Aspydad

I have been married just over 25 years. My wife and I have had our ups and downs. Throughout my career I travelled heavily for business so I do know what that is like. I actually took another assignment almost three years ago with my company where my responsibilities are only in North America and my travel load dropped from 60% down to 10%. I did this because my wife told me that she really wanted to spend more time with me and that she was tired of me being away all the time.

I am the more introverted of the two of us as my wife is very outgoing and makes friends very easily. Early on in our marriage just prior to having our second daughter and my wife still worked – she became very close with a man that she worked with. When I came back from my trips she would always tell me about what is going on in this guy’s life – like I cared – I never even met this guy. As you are, I was very trusting that she would not cheat – but in the back of my mind I was suspicious. But, I would always just ignore it and say to myself that I am being insecure feeling this way. But, because of this close relationship that my wife had with this guy, I actually questioned (for years until it was obvious that my daughter looked much like me) whether my second daughter was really mine! For my second daughter to be mine, my wife must have gotten pregnant by just one time with her during the month as I was out of the country for two weeks – came back – my wife tells me that she is changing pills (as she used birth control) because they were affecting her bad – but we could have sex because according to the timing method (which I had never heard of at the time) she could not get pregnant. We had sex and then I left to go out of the country again for another two weeks. I find out three weeks later that my wife is pregnant! In my mind I am like how did that happen? But, I did not accuse her as I did not even want to think about her being with someone else. But – I always in the back of my mind questioned – and that is just horrible and it was because she was too close to another man – I know now – that she was having an emotional affair – just did not know what that was back then.

Now, about four years ago – she did have another emotional affair – and this time I threatened to leave as soon as I found out (well actually, I did leave for two nights and stayed in a hotel) she was a basket case and begged me to come home – I told her no contract with the man period!! She did cut it off immediately and I actually went over to confront this man and told him if he ever came near my wife again that I would destroy him (I mean physically – I am very fit and in my younger days was heavy into martial arts – I could destroy this guy) This was the very low point of my marriage and is what drove me to change positions within my company– and actually pick up and move my family to a new state. My wife just got so lonely with me traveling – was not working at the time and just felt lost. I thought because I had made it big time financially that that was enough – but as I found out, it is certainly not enough – money that is.

The guy my wife got too close to was a man in my neighborhood – he was a male nurse for the military – worked the nightshift only three days a week. This guy’s wife was actually a police officer and worked during the day. My youngest boy is the same age has their son. My wife used to go to play group in the neighborhood and this guy went as well – he was the only dude doing this. Well, this guy was having marital problems (ending up divorcing his wife) and turned to my wife for support – this is when the emotional almost physical affair started.

For me – my wife and I have had to really work on our marriage – we are happier than ever now. I did not have this TAM site back then – but, I actually did everything right just by instinct as there is no way I will share my wife with anyone – even another women by the way – she is not bi – but, she is involved with an organization where she is the president and there is this other women who is divorced that is trying to latch onto her – I mean like one hour phone conversations – invites her to events all the time – and I am like – sorry, but this marriage takes commitment from both of us and we are too busy to be emotionally attached to someone out-side the marriage – she agrees and is turning away from this women. I am just not built to share my wife and from what I see on TAM here – most men and women by the way are very similar – it is not that I am insecure as I used to think.

To me, your situation is very simple – communicate with your wife and then the other man that their friendship is over – period. If she refuses – then tell her to move out (I told you that I left – that is because I had no idea that if you leave and separate – the courts will ban you from your own home during the divorce back then – even though for me I could give a rats ass because I could just buy another home if I wanted to. I promise you – if you react this way and she does love you – she will come out of her fog real quick – just as my wife did. If she does not care – then there you have it – you guys are doomed anyway.


----------



## Squeakr

Lies of omission are lies none the less. If she goes ends up somewhere that she isn't supposed to be and is different than the original intended location, that is a lie of omission if she doesn't tell you the truth.


----------



## Chaparral

Can you give us an update Maven?


----------



## thummper

Feels like Maven has left the building.


----------



## Chaparral

thummper said:


> Feels like Maven has left the building.


I'm pretty sure he hasn't. But its hard to help without feedback.


----------



## the guy

Maven said:


> Maybe this is the reason that I have let her get away with this for so long, because I still feel guilty for what I did in the beginning. .


Having been down that same road, although the crap I did to my old lady was criminal....I get were your coming from.

I let my old lady get a way with crap for 13 years and bro let me tell you this sh1t snowballs...it was 7 years into my 24 yr marriage my old lady started with all the disrespect.

Again her bull crap will snow ball if you left it unadressed.

See letting your guilt define your marriage will get you phucked so stand up now and make it clear you are on a new path and she can come along or not....this is about you now and if she wants to throw all the old you in you face well then fine let her live in the past...justify her behavior...but my friend need to inform her you are moving on with or with out her and its all about finding a healthy relationship with her or not.

Its no longer about her and the crap she had to deal with back in the day its about you and being in a healthy relationship with someone that wants the new you and doesnt phuck you over cuz of the old you.

make sense?


----------



## lifeistooshort

There's no effing way I'd put up with my hb behaving like this. He went out to get drinks one time with some coworkers (mostly women in his field) to celebrate one of their birthdays, and that was because his boss set it up and he was trying to get another job in the department. Even as he was telling me about it he looked embarrassed because he knew it wasn't appropriate; he went for half an hour and got his butt home. That's what you call boundaries. Your wife has called your bluff, and the longer you wait to act the less respect she has for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## anchorwatch

Give him time. If he did as he said, he's likely got more of a $hit storm on his hands then he was prepared for.


----------



## the guy

His old lady lost respect for him a long time ago.

She is phucking around on op cuz she don't care if it hurts him or not!

I bet if he planted a VAR he would get a lot clearer picture on exactly how much disrespect she really has and the lack of boundries that have been created due to the past...


----------



## carpenoctem

the guy said:


> *Its no longer about her and the crap she had to deal with back in the day its about you and being in a healthy relationship with someone that wants the new you and doesnt phuck you over cuz of the old you.*



This could perhaps be a little anachronistic here (considering that Maven has to yet get to a stage where he confronts his wife, and they discuss / decide what to do), and *you said it in your usual in-your-face way, Guy, but there is a deep Reconciliation Philosophy in there.*

Especially, this part: doesnt phuck you over cuz of the old you.


----------



## Chaparral

Do some reconnisance. Put a var in her car. Forewarned is forearmed.


----------



## cj9947

Wake up!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's going on right in front of your face...


----------



## Decorum

I'm not going to read this thread. Op the consensus here is “right” in the high 90 percentile.

Its no fun being right, but your story repeats over and over again. I’m fairly sure that if you actually discovered and accepted the truth you still would not care to take the right actions. I hope I am wrong, but sadly if you are on here long enough the bad and the ugly seem the norm, the good is an occasionally refreshing diversion.
The advice you have been given is really the best you will ever get, the unpleasant actions that are called for are the only way out of LA LA land.


Here is an update from someone who was also sure it was not a PA. From his thread ...

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/169129-confront-not-6.html#post7715305



motl said:


> Well, of course you guys were right.
> 
> The other day she told me she is going down south for vacation at the end of the month. Nothing odd there, but I was curious about who she would go with since I know she would never go alone. I said nothing and showed zero interest in the trip when she brought it up.
> 
> Last night I was checking up on her new bank account - I check periodically because she's lied twice about how much money is in there so I want to keep tabs. She doesn't know I have access. While there I noticed a 1400 interac email transfer. First thought is that it must be for her trip because she has nothing else to spend that money on right now. I immediately remembered that you can view recipient history of EMTs and sure enough, the email was [email protected]. A guy I know to be a coworker.
> 
> So obviously he booked the trip and she sent her half, which means they are sharing a room. Even worse, this is the same guy who used to drop her off down the street from our house after 'work functions' almost a year ago...
> 
> I dont have access to her new email so this is probably the most I'll ever find out, but there's no doubt in my mind now. I dont know what to do with this info though. If I confront her I expect more lies, such as nothing happened until after we broke up (bull****).
> 
> Sex was ****ty for a year as she pulled away emotionally. Funny how that timing works out. I also can't stop thinking of one thing she said. For years she was hesitant to use only BC pills so we used them and a condoms until fairly recently (1.5 years ago). When she decided we could stop the condoms I remember her saying it was because of something this particular guy said at work, so "you have [guy] to thank." I keep running that through my mind and its making me crazy. Don't know why.
> 
> Its over anyway so I guess none of this matters, and now she will never have to truly face what she did to me.
> 
> Sorry for typos... On phone and in a rush
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I wish you well, take care!


----------



## vellocet

Maven said:


> Am I wrong for feeling disrespected? How would you feel if your husband/wife behaved this way? What would you do?


When the cat is away the mice will play.

Of course since this is no big deal she told you ahead of time he was going to be there, right? 

And how many times does she have this guy "friend" over when you aren't away? My guess is never.


----------



## happy as a clam

Maven hasn't posted since March 9th. I think he is OUTTA HERE!!  Oh well, he missed a lot of good advice.


----------



## Malaise

I think he was told things that he didn't want to hear.


----------



## 3putt

Malaise said:


> I think he was told things that he didn't want to hear.


But that's so not like us.


----------



## Chaparral

I think he is getting all the advice.

*Last Activity: 03-21-2014 08:40 PM *


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Given what he has posted, he may just be trying to come to terms with what his WS has been doing. There were a lot of red flags in what he's written so far.

Though many of us realized immediately that she had probably been cheating for quite a while. I'd guess that he's now realizing that there were many more that he didn't see, until now. And he's spending a lot of his time thinking the unthinkable. 

That's a tough pill to swallow.

Maven, you're not alone. Many of use have gone, or are going through, the same thing. Realizing that their spouse was not the person they thought they had married.

Hopefully you're eating and sleeping enough. Take care of yourself and post back here when you are ready to. Take care.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Remember, there are multiple threads where the guy disappears and comes back with a new story or discovery of the truth.


----------



## thummper

Hey, Maven. Where are ya, buddy?  There's a lot of folks here who'd like to know how things are goin' for you.


----------



## lordmayhem

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Remember, there are multiple threads where the guy disappears and comes back with a new story or discovery of the truth.


:iagree:

The initial shock and denial in the early stage eventually wears off for some people. Others refuse to believe and just sweep it under the rug.


----------



## william cooney

I am a victim of deception by my wife. she was the most unfaithful woman i have ever seen. but unlike Maven, i confronted, which turned out to be the end of our marriage. no regrets, i cannot live with a woman who was never honest to me. Maven, you need to be strong to take a thoughtful decision. A woman who lies depicts she has no values and she can transfer nothing good to your kids.


----------



## Maven

Hi Guys, I am so moved that so many people care enough to follow the thread and ask for update. I am sorry that it has taken me a little while to post, but dealing with the whole situation plus some business and other family issues and I have felt like everything has just piled up on me all at once and it feels hard to breathe. I am trying to stay as positive as I can and taking in all the advice you are giving me to heart, I am trying to solve the situation using logic and clear mind rather then just anger, jealousy and mistrust. 

I am the type of person that would leave my wife immediately if I caught her cheating on me. This is something that we have talked about, and neither her or I will forgive and forget if that was to happen. That is both of our #1 rule, and we have agreed before we even got married that if one of us was to ever fall out of love, or develop feelings for someone else or even feel like they want to have an affair that we would talk to the other person and have an amicable divorce and go our separate ways. We both hold faithfulness as the top priority in our marriage.

It is very easy based on many of the events to automatically assume that my wife is having a physical affair and about 95% of the people already think that. Many of you have said that you are 100% positive that this is a physical affair. It would be very easy for me to believe this is the truth and put things in motion that will ultimately bring an end to my marriage and my family as I know it. If I am to be honest, if I read the same story about a complete stranger I would also think the same thing. In my case, things are not as easy to automatically assume and I have to use logic. Based on the following info, here is where I stand.

I am going to disagree with the people who think that my wife is having a physical affair. I am almost 100% certain that she is not. And, I am not just saying that because I am blind, or don't want to face the truth, or am stupid or gullible or any other non sense. I believe so based on the following. 

1. I have know my wife since we were little kids. I knew of her relationships before we got married and she knew of mine. She was with the same bf from age 16 for 10 years. She is a very attractive girl and was constantly being hit on other guys at parties and gatherings we attended together, but she never gave anyone the time of day. We hung out in the same circle and had she ever done anything, believe me we all knew each others business at that age, things did not stay hidden. 

2. She has known the OP, her male friend that was at my house since childhood as well. They have always been close friends. I knew that when we got married. I actually didn't mind when they hung out together, I trusted her 100%. After her long relationship ended, if there was something going on with them, they had plenty of opportunities to get together. They never did.

3. After a few times when she disrespected me and stayed at his house much later then she promised me or even spent the night a few times because she said she was too tipsy to drive back, I started suspecting that something might be going on so I decided to find out. On 3 separate occasions, without her knowledge I have downloaded the contents of her cell phone and went through all her txt messages and compared them to our phone records since she is on my account. Not only with this guy but all her guy friends. I went back for about 6 months back on each occasion. There was not 1 inappropriate or strange phone call or text message. And none were deleted. 

4. One time when she stayed out there, I had enough and I figured that I would catch her in the act. I showed up at OP house at 5am getting ready for a confrontation. When I approached to ring the bell, I realized that the door was not fully closed by the last person that left the party and I could just walk in. I got ready for the worse, my heart was pounding. I was 100% sure that I would walk in and find them in bed together. I mean, nothing else made sense, just as all of you have attested that it must be a physical affair. I built up the courage to deal with the consequences and I pushed the door open. I walked in the house and headed for the bedroom since I knew where it was, I have been to many of the parties there with her. As I open the bedroom door, I see her friend sleeping in his bed. My wife is not there. I slowly close the door and walk down to the living room, I see my wife sleeping on the couch covered up with a blanket, passed out. I woke her ass up and hauled her out of there and we had a major fight because even without cheating the **** she was doing was disrespectful. 

5. My wife does omit some things to avoid arguments or fights, but never in our 8 years of marriage have I caught her in a lie. She has been honest with me 100% of the time and many of the times I have checked and double checked her story when I was suspicious of something. One instance when I was out of town, I knew she was at a place I did not want her to be at. I checked her phone and realized she had gone. I would never know about it, and I was 100% certain that when I asked her how her evening was she would not tell me where she was because it would cause a huge argument. The following day, I very discretely asked her how her day was and what she did. After a short pause, she apologized and told me what she had done. I was floored, that she told me the truth not knowing that I already knew. 

There are a dozen more reasons I can come up with but the fact of the matter is that I do not have an ounce of proof or do I have an ounce of suspicion that my wife is having a physical affair after all of that. Believe me, I have tried very hard to find some and have never been able to do so. And also my wife is such an emotional and empathetic person that if she was to do something as big as have an affair, the guilt would absolutely debilitate her. I would know it instantly. And, I am the same way, this is the reason I have never cheated either.

Now hearing all of this in just one instance, it seems like my wife is doing this all the time and I am just letting her walk all over me every day. Have in mind we are talking about 4-5 incidents over the span of 8 years. During the rest of the time we are happy and in love like little teenagers. We have never lost that passion for each other. But, even in such rare occasions, the level of disrespect I feel when something like this happens had built up and built up to the point where it is not acceptable any more and this is the reason for the whole post.

With all of that being said. I am standing behind my wife and I do believe that she has never had a physical affair with this man or any other man. But the fact of the matter was that regardless of that, the things that she was doing were very inappropriate and disrespectful to me as her husband. She failed to see that, because in her eyes... if she was not having an affair, it was not wrong.

Because of all of your comments and help. I was able to convince her to face the real issue at hand and look deep to find out what was causing all her unhappiness and need to escape and party and do all of these things and we were able to zero out the problem. She just missed me. I was not available to her because I travel all of the time and she is forced to stay home with the kids alone all of the time. She missed her husband. And, when I was home I had all the bills piled up and house and other **** to take care of that I was really never home. It forced me to look at my self and our life and realize that she was right in that regard. When I was home for a long period of time, things were perfect, we had no issues, she never did **** like that. The times when I was gone for weeks at a time and home for a few days and then back on the road, that's when things started getting out of hand. So now that we got down to the real problem. We both agreed that we would look at each or our own actions and start implementing changes to make the other person happy. There is a lot of damage that this whole deal has caused to our marriage and lot's of bad links and resentments and stuff to deal with. It will take a lot of work to get us back on track, but we are both willing to do the work and hopefully we will be able to find a middle ground where we are both happy and this will make our marriage even that much stronger. 

I welcome any comments or further advice if you guys care to leave some. I will post another update in a few weeks to let you know how things are going and if we are making any good progress.

Hopefully my story will help some of you out there who are dealing with a similar situation to realize that a lot of the times there is a much deeper issue at hand that is making the other person feel unhappy and their actions are as a direct result of that. They can start feeling a lot of blame and resentment. It helps to be very open and to look at yourself and see what you are doing wrong that could be forcing your partner to act out in a bad way. Most of the time, if you deal with the real issue at hand, infidelity and divorce could be avoided and your marriage could be reinvigorated.

Be well!!


----------



## naiveonedave

I think you are nuts, but that is just me. Adults don't do that stuff, probability of EA and PA is very high, even with your description.


----------



## Squeakr

I somewhat have to agree. Even though I feel that you are possibly getting the truth, she is making this all about you. Her actions are her actions. She may be sad and missing you, but replacing you with someone else isn't making things better. That is for sure. I think you are too trusting of this other guy. I can't help but think that he is getting something more or why else would a single guy stay so close all of these years (somethings just don't make that much sense).


----------



## Dad&Hubby

Maven said:


> Hi Guys, I am so moved that so many people care enough to follow the thread and ask for update. I am sorry that it has taken me a little while to post, but dealing with the whole situation plus some business and other family issues and I have felt like everything has just piled up on me all at once and it feels hard to breathe. I am trying to stay as positive as I can and taking in all the advice you are giving me to heart, I am trying to solve the situation using logic and clear mind rather then just anger, jealousy and mistrust.
> 
> I am the type of person that would leave my wife immediately if I caught her cheating on me. This is something that we have talked about, and neither her or I will forgive and forget if that was to happen. That is both of our #1 rule, and we have agreed before we even got married that if one of us was to ever fall out of love, or develop feelings for someone else or even feel like they want to have an affair that we would talk to the other person and have an amicable divorce and go our separate ways. We both hold faithfulness as the top priority in our marriage.
> 
> It is very easy based on many of the events to automatically assume that my wife is having a physical affair and about 95% of the people already think that. Many of you have said that you are 100% positive that this is a physical affair. It would be very easy for me to believe this is the truth and put things in motion that will ultimately bring an end to my marriage and my family as I know it. If I am to be honest, if I read the same story about a complete stranger I would also think the same thing. In my case, things are not as easy to automatically assume and I have to use logic. Based on the following info, here is where I stand.
> 
> I am going to disagree with the people who think that my wife is having a physical affair. I am almost 100% certain that she is not. And, I am not just saying that because I am blind, or don't want to face the truth, or am stupid or gullible or any other non sense. I believe so based on the following.
> 
> 1. I have know my wife since we were little kids. I knew of her relationships before we got married and she knew of mine. She was with the same bf from age 16 for 10 years. She is a very attractive girl and was constantly being hit on other guys at parties and gatherings we attended together, but she never gave anyone the time of day. We hung out in the same circle and had she ever done anything, believe me we all knew each others business at that age, things did not stay hidden.
> 
> 2. She has known the OP, her male friend that was at my house since childhood as well. They have always been close friends. I knew that when we got married. I actually didn't mind when they hung out together, I trusted her 100%. After her long relationship ended, if there was something going on with them, they had plenty of opportunities to get together. They never did.
> 
> 3. After a few times when she disrespected me and stayed at his house much later then she promised me or even spent the night a few times because she said she was too tipsy to drive back, I started suspecting that something might be going on so I decided to find out. On 3 separate occasions, without her knowledge I have downloaded the contents of her cell phone and went through all her txt messages and compared them to our phone records since she is on my account. Not only with this guy but all her guy friends. I went back for about 6 months back on each occasion. There was not 1 inappropriate or strange phone call or text message. And none were deleted.
> 
> 4. One time when she stayed out there, I had enough and I figured that I would catch her in the act. I showed up at OP house at 5am getting ready for a confrontation. When I approached to ring the bell, I realized that the door was not fully closed by the last person that left the party and I could just walk in. I got ready for the worse, my heart was pounding. I was 100% sure that I would walk in and find them in bed together. I mean, nothing else made sense, just as all of you have attested that it must be a physical affair. I built up the courage to deal with the consequences and I pushed the door open. I walked in the house and headed for the bedroom since I knew where it was, I have been to many of the parties there with her. As I open the bedroom door, I see her friend sleeping in his bed. My wife is not there. I slowly close the door and walk down to the living room, I see my wife sleeping on the couch covered up with a blanket, passed out. I woke her ass up and hauled her out of there and we had a major fight because even without cheating the **** she was doing was disrespectful.
> 
> 5. My wife does omit some things to avoid arguments or fights, but never in our 8 years of marriage have I caught her in a lie. She has been honest with me 100% of the time and many of the times I have checked and double checked her story when I was suspicious of something. One instance when I was out of town, I knew she was at a place I did not want her to be at. I checked her phone and realized she had gone. I would never know about it, and I was 100% certain that when I asked her how her evening was she would not tell me where she was because it would cause a huge argument. The following day, I very discretely asked her how her day was and what she did. After a short pause, she apologized and told me what she had done. I was floored, that she told me the truth not knowing that I already knew.
> 
> There are a dozen more reasons I can come up with but the fact of the matter is that I do not have an ounce of proof or do I have an ounce of suspicion that my wife is having a physical affair after all of that. Believe me, I have tried very hard to find some and have never been able to do so. And also my wife is such an emotional and empathetic person that if she was to do something as big as have an affair, the guilt would absolutely debilitate her. I would know it instantly. And, I am the same way, this is the reason I have never cheated either.
> 
> Now hearing all of this in just one instance, it seems like my wife is doing this all the time and I am just letting her walk all over me every day. Have in mind we are talking about 4-5 incidents over the span of 8 years. During the rest of the time we are happy and in love like little teenagers. We have never lost that passion for each other. But, even in such rare occasions, the level of disrespect I feel when something like this happens had built up and built up to the point where it is not acceptable any more and this is the reason for the whole post.
> 
> With all of that being said. I am standing behind my wife and I do believe that she has never had a physical affair with this man or any other man. But the fact of the matter was that regardless of that, the things that she was doing were very inappropriate and disrespectful to me as her husband. She failed to see that, because in her eyes... if she was not having an affair, it was not wrong.
> 
> Because of all of your comments and help. I was able to convince her to face the real issue at hand and look deep to find out what was causing all her unhappiness and need to escape and party and do all of these things and we were able to zero out the problem. She just missed me. I was not available to her because I travel all of the time and she is forced to stay home with the kids alone all of the time. She missed her husband. And, when I was home I had all the bills piled up and house and other **** to take care of that I was really never home. It forced me to look at my self and our life and realize that she was right in that regard. When I was home for a long period of time, things were perfect, we had no issues, she never did **** like that. The times when I was gone for weeks at a time and home for a few days and then back on the road, that's when things started getting out of hand. So now that we got down to the real problem. We both agreed that we would look at each or our own actions and start implementing changes to make the other person happy. There is a lot of damage that this whole deal has caused to our marriage and lot's of bad links and resentments and stuff to deal with. It will take a lot of work to get us back on track, but we are both willing to do the work and hopefully we will be able to find a middle ground where we are both happy and this will make our marriage even that much stronger.
> 
> I welcome any comments or further advice if you guys care to leave some. I will post another update in a few weeks to let you know how things are going and if we are making any good progress.
> 
> Hopefully my story will help some of you out there who are dealing with a similar situation to realize that a lot of the times there is a much deeper issue at hand that is making the other person feel unhappy and their actions are as a direct result of that. They can start feeling a lot of blame and resentment. It helps to be very open and to look at yourself and see what you are doing wrong that could be forcing your partner to act out in a bad way. Most of the time, if you deal with the real issue at hand, infidelity and divorce could be avoided and your marriage could be reinvigorated.
> 
> Be well!!


Hi Maven,

Obviously you live your life, I've only read a few snippets you've written here.

That said.

"If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck"
"Nothing good happens at 2am"

There are reasons there are sayings like that.

And your wife's "How can you not trust me...I've never done anything to warrant you not trusting me?" is a line of sheet. All of this behavior is 100 reasons not to trust someone.

My wife would NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER have a guy in our house at 4am. She'd never "disappear" after midnight. She knows how I'd react, justifiably. Sorry but she's sitting there with an iphone and you can't "reach her"....that means she's ACTIVELY ignoring your calls and texts. She's INTENTIONALLY putting you through emotional distress. It must've been something VERY important to INTENTIONALLY ignore your calls at 1am when she KNOWS you think she's due home at midnight.

I'd be calling hospitals if my wife was supposed to be home at midnight and it was 1am and she's not answering her phone.

Sorry but you are buying her gaslighting and there is SOMETHING going on. Maybe, just maybe she's not physically cheating on you, so what is going on with her where she has THIS MUCH RESENTMENT towards you that she needs to live her life like this?

PS next time she says she's going out until 2am, say oh no, you can't I already made plans with Jill from work and I'm not sure what time I'll get home. We're going to be dancing and drinking so it's hard to tell. "WHO'S JILL"....."Oh just a friend, like "her OP" ", but it's your turn to watch the kids, I haven't gone out nearly as much as you have recently.

Watch the sh!tstorm that starts with that one.


----------



## tom67

naiveonedave said:


> I think you are nuts, but that is just me. Adults don't do that stuff, probability of EA and PA is very high, even with your description.


Easy Dave
He has a point though what if you were sleeping over at a female friends place?
How would that go over. She needs boundaries if she doesn't like it tough cookies.
Tell her you set up a polygraph then see her reaction.


----------



## SF-FAN

Yeah I don't think a married woman/man should ever spend the night at a person of the opposite sex's house. That's a boundary that should never be crossed. Grant it, my WW did but she lied to me about it and I didn't find out until after the fact but she knew that wouldn't fly otherwise. Guys and Girls cannot be "just friends." Either he wants more than a friendship, or she does. It's been proven through many studies.


----------



## Hicks

Whether she is doing him or not, your standards of what is acceptable in a marriage are incredibly low.

A friendship to the level you have described with all the inherent fear and insecurity it has brought you, is really no different than screwing.

You need a rule in your marriage: No Friends of the Opposite Sex. Bottom line.


----------



## tom67

Hicks said:


> Whether she is doing him or not, your standards of what is acceptable in a marriage are incredibly low.
> 
> A friendship to the level you have described with all the inherent fear and insecurity it has brought you, is really no different than screwing.
> 
> You need a rule in your marriage: No Friends of the Opposite Sex. Bottom line.


This^^^:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## tom67

Mavin I'm glad you updated.
Stick around ask questions, vent whatever. 
You had that gut feeling otherwise you wouldn't be here.
We don't bite.


----------



## BlueCalcite

Maven said:


> On 3 separate occasions, without her knowledge I have downloaded the contents of her cell phone and went through all her txt messages and compared them to our phone records since she is on my account. Not only with this guy but all her guy friends. I went back for about 6 months back on each occasion. There was not 1 inappropriate or strange phone call or text message. And none were deleted.


No need for inappropriate calls/texts when she was apparently able to just "hang" with him whenever she wanted.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Gas lighting. Blame shifting. Look it up.


----------



## Gabriel

OP, please go to my profile and see the first thread I posted back in 2011.

My wife had a friend from college (friends 3 years before I met her), that she saw 2-3 times a year. They would occasionally email and chat. But they were close friends. When they visited each other it was the for the whole day - not until 4am, but maybe 11pm-midnight.

When our marriage went bad, she turned to him for emotional support and fell in love with him. They were platonic friends for 20 years with no affairs, but still ended up crossing the line even then.

I can't stand the whole, "I've got an opposite sex best friend thing." It's very difficult to work through. You will always wonder about them, and she will always demand to be friends with him given their history. It's a rock and a hard place. 

If you are confident nothing has happened between them, then now is your time to set very clear boundaries about what you will not accept. Like, no coming over when you're out of town. No overnights. Etc. etc.

This is going to be a long road for you. I've been there. 

Given what ended up happening to me, I would NEVER EVER marry a woman that had a very close male friend again. Ever.


----------



## warlock07

you might well be right...but there is a first time for everything.

People change through years.

How many have their first affairs in their 40's?


----------



## syhoybenden

Dear Maven,

Dream on,
Dream on little dreamer , dream on.


----------



## lordmayhem

Maven said:


> 2. She has known the OP, her male friend that was at my house since childhood as well. They have always been close friends. I knew that when we got married. I actually didn't mind when they hung out together, I trusted her 100%. After her long relationship ended, if there was something going on with them, they had plenty of opportunities to get together. They never did.


Ask Gabriel how much easier it is for someone to fall for a long time friend. You see, with life long friends, they already have a long history. Its only ONE more line to cross. So if she cant come to you with someone, who's she going to go to? You guessed it. 



Maven said:


> 3. After a few times when she disrespected me and stayed at his house much later then she promised me or even spent the night a few times because she said she was too tipsy to drive back,


This is another common lie cheaters tell when the lie is: He's just a friend.

You mean she couldn't call you to pick her up or a friend to drive her home? Or how come she didn't ask him to bring her home to you? Even if you were out of town, she had other options besides spending the night alone with him in his apartment. Two adults drunk alone in his house. This would only be acceptable if he is gay, or he has wife and kids there. 

Because he is a lifelong friend, she already has a built in alibi with you.


----------



## Remains

I think some of the comments here are harsh. And actually totally unwarranted...however, I can see where they are coming from. I believe what you are saying, I was pretty similar to your wife in my past. Honest, friends, going out too late, staying over sometimes, never doing anything. 

BUT, the behavior is very disrespectful. I am glad to hear you are addressing it. You must though, must, address the opposite sex friends issue. This is a dormant calamity waiting to happen. This man friend needs to be a friend of you as a family, a couple, and NOT her going out partying friend. This is a recipe for disaster. 

Like it or not, there is chemistry between friends. When it is same sex friends, that chemistry results in a good close friendship. But no possibility of sex is ever in the picture. With opposite sex friends, the chemistry is always combined with a sexual attraction. It can't help but. There will always be that undercurrent. They may not act upon it.... but it is only a certain set of circumstances that might cause it too overstep the boundary. And that boundary is very thin and fragile when there is alcohol involved and sleepovers and staying up chatting until 12, 1, 2, 3, 4...in the morning. 

Opposite sex friends is just bullsh1t, and a modern concept that arrived with many other modern concepts that are equally bullsh1t. We think we are better than the last thousands of years of human nature. And so the last 50 years, suddenly we are enlightened. Uh, no. Just stupid. And selfish.


----------



## Chaparral

Have you ever been looking her straight in the eye and asked her if he has ever tried to kiss her, lately or in the past.

The one problem with cheaters is that they can lie as easily as take a drink of water... You have no idea how many times we have heard a story like yours that always turns out to be cheating.

The reason 80% of cheaters are never caught is how easily and convincingly lie. One of the biggest red flags is when they swear on their kids or parents lives.

How are you going to get around the problem of being away so much?


----------



## Remains

And yes, I agree with above, he will have tried to kiss her before. She may have even kissed him back. He has probably squeezed her, pinched her bum. I imagine there had been a lot of flirting and closeness on those drunk nights out.

Also, if it wasn't wrong, why would he become uncomfortable when you return home early and find them at 4am? If that was a woman friend, would she have been uncomfortable? And in fact, would there be that desire to stay up chatting til 4 am? I doubt it. I imagine it is the sexual attraction that keeps them awake and bubbly instead of getting tired and making their excuses and retiring to bed.


----------



## carpenoctem

*Maven:*

Some observations:

When she (your wife) was young and hot, she could ignore all / most of the guys hitting on her *because she knew a whole life of ‘hotness’ was ahead of her. *Plus, her mental make-up could have been that of a standoffish pretty girl.

In her middle age, a woman begins to worry about her female charms waning, and eventually disappearing forever. Then, she hangs on to her remaining ‘hotness’ with the skin of her teeth, and in place of the youthful standoffishness, a come-hither attitude often develops – sometimes just for some cross-gender validation at the emotional level, but often, leading to no-holds barred physical interactions with other men.
*
To believe she would be as standoffish to male attention in her middle ages, as she was in her teens, would be illogical,* and misleading. So it seems to me.



*If such a change (midlife crisis) happens, even those who have till then been an asexual friend could suddenly transform into a sexual prospect. We see it all around us – affairs being revealed between socially, sexually and financially incompatible pairs of men and women.*

(Admittedly, 'compatibility' is also a prejudice).



She has been* remarkably *honest with you all along, which could be the hallmark of one who has nothing to lie about or hide from you, or the confidence of an evolved gaslighter. Let’s hope it is the first.

*You share your life with her, which means you know her better than anyone else. But it also means you are likely to be blinder to her than anyone else.
*

*Permute her remarkable honesty with the fact that you have been remarkably lax with your marital boundaries too.

While most WSs have to jump over fences, hop through loops, hide in dark corners, slink away to hideouts and virtually walk on water to conduct an affair, your wife, if she wants to, can do it without ANY extraneous effort – because you have been so amorphous with your marital boundaries and respect threshold.*

*In short, if she hasn't had an affair yet, you are remarkably fortunate.*




*P.S:*

Vis a vis a few aspects in your post, please note:

*Many WSs do the marital equivalent of pleading guilty of a lesser offense, to deflect attention from a graver offense.*

In youth, many girls and boys have a sort of f-buddy clubs. Some WSs and OMs recreate that scenario during their affair, where the OMs and the WSs are not exclusive (!!) to one another. Group sex, multiple (consecutive) sex partners at one go, etc., also are often part of EMAs. The day you walked into his house, if you had done so a few hours earlier, perhaps it could have been your wife in his bed, and the friend passed out on the sofa.

*There is no way you can tell. You can only trust.*



I apologize if it seems I am trying to torpedo your trust. I am posting what I feel I must.

That said, *I hope and pray this IS one of those unlikely tales of innocence, marred unjustly by the all-pervasive distrust of our times.

But at least, tell her to stop this nonsensical sleepovers at his place. It does sound like the first(?) chapter of a self-initiated tale of cuckoldry.*


----------



## missthelove2013

You come home early and find her and her MALE best friend in your house at 4am???

There are only a few scenarios
they were ABOUT to f***
they just finished f***ing
he was there HOPING to f***
he is still grooming her for the f***ing

I would bet a guitar on the first two as they have been friends a while


----------



## 2yearsago

She is disrespecting you BIG TIME.

Whether or not she is having an affair is another matter. You said it yourself you listen to her complaints about you then change yourself to meet her demands. 

She is playing you for a fool. Wise up.


----------



## jack.c

i dont think he care much on what you all are telling him..... he beleives every crap she says, so he's the bad guy thinking something is wrong....


----------



## PhillyGuy13

Maven, I didn't see this thread the first time around, but went through and read all your posts. I agree with what everyone has been saying... It really seems like something is going on with wife and her friend. Married people don't go out and get drunk and stay over opposite friend house. I haven't done that since I was 22 (and single ). And over your house at 4:00am when you walked in?? Let me tell you 5:00 am would not have come. But you seem to give them the benefit of the doubt. That's fine. You know everyone involved much better than we do.

My question is this. What made you come home at 4:00 am? I travel a ton for work. My wife is aware of my schedule, and any changes to that schedule. Did something in your gut tell you to get your a$$ home? 4:00am is an odd time. Was it an overnight drive, you just made really good time for home early? I assume if you caught an early flight you would have given your wife that information. Instead you went home unannounced, at. 4:00 am. See where I'm going? Almost like you suspected something and wanted to walk in on them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## badmemory

maven,

I won't try to convince you that your wife is having an A. But instead, I want you to consider that even if she's not now, there's a good chance that she will at some point; as long as you are accepting this behavior.

I think you're beginning to understand that; but you need to draw a line in the sand now. It's all about reasonable marital boundaries and she has crossed them. You don't have to accept this any longer.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Maven said:


> Hi Guys, I am so moved that so many people care enough to follow the thread and ask for update. I am sorry that it has taken me a little while to post, but dealing with the whole situation plus some business and other family issues and I have felt like everything has just piled up on me all at once and it feels hard to breathe. I am trying to stay as positive as I can and taking in all the advice you are giving me to heart, I am trying to solve the situation using logic and clear mind rather then just anger, jealousy and mistrust.
> 
> I am the type of person that would leave my wife immediately if I caught her cheating on me. This is something that we have talked about, and neither her or I will forgive and forget if that was to happen. That is both of our #1 rule, and we have agreed before we even got married that if one of us was to ever fall out of love, or develop feelings for someone else or even feel like they want to have an affair that we would talk to the other person and have an amicable divorce and go our separate ways. We both hold faithfulness as the top priority in our marriage.
> 
> It is very easy based on many of the events to automatically assume that my wife is having a physical affair and about 95% of the people already think that. Many of you have said that you are 100% positive that this is a physical affair. It would be very easy for me to believe this is the truth and put things in motion that will ultimately bring an end to my marriage and my family as I know it. If I am to be honest, if I read the same story about a complete stranger I would also think the same thing. In my case, things are not as easy to automatically assume and I have to use logic. Based on the following info, here is where I stand.
> 
> I am going to disagree with the people who think that my wife is having a physical affair. I am almost 100% certain that she is not. And, I am not just saying that because I am blind, or don't want to face the truth, or am stupid or gullible or any other non sense. I believe so based on the following.
> 
> 1. I have know my wife since we were little kids. I knew of her relationships before we got married and she knew of mine. She was with the same bf from age 16 for 10 years. She is a very attractive girl and was constantly being hit on other guys at parties and gatherings we attended together, but she never gave anyone the time of day. We hung out in the same circle and had she ever done anything, believe me we all knew each others business at that age, things did not stay hidden.
> 
> 2. She has known the OP, her male friend that was at my house since childhood as well. They have always been close friends. I knew that when we got married. I actually didn't mind when they hung out together, I trusted her 100%. After her long relationship ended, if there was something going on with them, they had plenty of opportunities to get together. They never did.
> 
> 3. After a few times when she disrespected me and stayed at his house much later then she promised me or even spent the night a few times because she said she was too tipsy to drive back, I started suspecting that something might be going on so I decided to find out. On 3 separate occasions, without her knowledge I have downloaded the contents of her cell phone and went through all her txt messages and compared them to our phone records since she is on my account. Not only with this guy but all her guy friends. I went back for about 6 months back on each occasion. There was not 1 inappropriate or strange phone call or text message. And none were deleted.
> 
> 4. One time when she stayed out there, I had enough and I figured that I would catch her in the act. I showed up at OP house at 5am getting ready for a confrontation. When I approached to ring the bell, I realized that the door was not fully closed by the last person that left the party and I could just walk in. I got ready for the worse, my heart was pounding. I was 100% sure that I would walk in and find them in bed together. I mean, nothing else made sense, just as all of you have attested that it must be a physical affair. I built up the courage to deal with the consequences and I pushed the door open. I walked in the house and headed for the bedroom since I knew where it was, I have been to many of the parties there with her. As I open the bedroom door, I see her friend sleeping in his bed. My wife is not there. I slowly close the door and walk down to the living room, I see my wife sleeping on the couch covered up with a blanket, passed out. I woke her ass up and hauled her out of there and we had a major fight because even without cheating the **** she was doing was disrespectful.
> 
> 5. My wife does omit some things to avoid arguments or fights, but never in our 8 years of marriage have I caught her in a lie. She has been honest with me 100% of the time and many of the times I have checked and double checked her story when I was suspicious of something. One instance when I was out of town, I knew she was at a place I did not want her to be at. I checked her phone and realized she had gone. I would never know about it, and I was 100% certain that when I asked her how her evening was she would not tell me where she was because it would cause a huge argument. The following day, I very discretely asked her how her day was and what she did. After a short pause, she apologized and told me what she had done. I was floored, that she told me the truth not knowing that I already knew.
> 
> There are a dozen more reasons I can come up with but the fact of the matter is that I do not have an ounce of proof or do I have an ounce of suspicion that my wife is having a physical affair after all of that. Believe me, I have tried very hard to find some and have never been able to do so. And also my wife is such an emotional and empathetic person that if she was to do something as big as have an affair, the guilt would absolutely debilitate her. I would know it instantly. And, I am the same way, this is the reason I have never cheated either.
> 
> Now hearing all of this in just one instance, it seems like my wife is doing this all the time and I am just letting her walk all over me every day. Have in mind we are talking about 4-5 incidents over the span of 8 years. During the rest of the time we are happy and in love like little teenagers. We have never lost that passion for each other. But, even in such rare occasions, the level of disrespect I feel when something like this happens had built up and built up to the point where it is not acceptable any more and this is the reason for the whole post.
> 
> With all of that being said. I am standing behind my wife and I do believe that she has never had a physical affair with this man or any other man. But the fact of the matter was that regardless of that, the things that she was doing were very inappropriate and disrespectful to me as her husband. She failed to see that, because in her eyes... if she was not having an affair, it was not wrong.


 Ah yes, the She/I would never do this with my best friend, spouse's best friend, the childhood friend I grew up with etc etc etc. Everything you just typed screams affair more than before IMO.

If this is what you want good luck to you. Make sure you get help and stop trying to find fault with yourself and letting hers slide by.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

phillybeffandswiss said:


> *Ah yes, the She/I would never do this with my best friend, spouse's best friend, the childhood friend I grew up with etc etc etc. *Everything you just typed screams affair more than before IMO.
> 
> If this is what you want good luck to you. Make sure you get help and stop trying to find fault with yourself and letting hers slide by.


Wait 'til she swaers on someone's life(usually childeren or parents) that she hasn't done anything... You know it's coming.


----------



## lovelyblue

missthelove2013 said:


> You come home early and find her and her MALE best friend in your house at 4am???
> 
> There are only a few scenarios
> they were ABOUT to f***
> they just finished f***ing
> he was there HOPING to f***
> he is still grooming her for the f***ing
> 
> I would bet a guitar on the first two as they have been friends a while


I was thinking the same thing.

Also as the saying goes theirs nothing open at 4 am but legs.


----------



## jnj express

You will do what you believe is right---------what you NEED to do---is set some boundaries

Married wives and mothers---do not entertain other men, even if they are friends---PERIOD---that has to end, if she doesn't like it, then you have a problem, cuz what she is doing is NOT IN THE MARRIED WOMANS SCRIPT

Same for her partying w/out you----if she is lonely she should have hobbies, and projects, and be with her GF's in the daytime----AT NIGHT SHE NEEDS TO BE HOME WITH HER OWN KIDS, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU ARE NOT AROUND, and she sure as he*l should not be drinking if she is to drive when you are not around, same for spending the night away from YOUR KIDS, when you are not around.

If she must talk to her male friends---once a week over the phone, for a short conversation, is plenty

These boundaries need to go into place immediately---and there MUST BE ACTIONABLE CONSEQUENCES THAT SHE KNOWS OF SHOULD SHE VIOLATE THESE BOUNDARIES

No matter what you wanna believe about her---NO RESPECTING MOTHER WOULD ENTERTAIN A MAN WHO IS NOT HER H---IN HER HOUSE WITH HER KIDS PRESENT AT 4 A M---and be DRINKING WITH HIM--------THAT STOPS AS OF YESTERDAY

If this were me---I would Poly her as to the 4 a m night, and ask her if this has happened on other occasions----but then again this is your life isn't it---and right now your so called wonderful wife and mother who drinks with men who are not her H, in the marital home with YOUR KIDS PRESENT, seems to be up on a PEDESTAL


----------



## Maven

jnj express said:


> You will do what you believe is right---------what you NEED to do---is set some boundaries
> 
> Married wives and mothers---do not entertain other men, even if they are friends---PERIOD---that has to end, if she doesn't like it, then you have a problem, cuz what she is doing is NOT IN THE MARRIED WOMANS SCRIPT
> 
> Same for her partying w/out you----if she is lonely she should have hobbies, and projects, and be with her GF's in the daytime----AT NIGHT SHE NEEDS TO BE HOME WITH HER OWN KIDS, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU ARE NOT AROUND, and she sure as he*l should not be drinking if she is to drive when you are not around, same for spending the night away from YOUR KIDS, when you are not around.
> 
> If she must talk to her male friends---once a week over the phone, for a short conversation, is plenty
> 
> These boundaries need to go into place immediately---and there MUST BE ACTIONABLE CONSEQUENCES THAT SHE KNOWS OF SHOULD SHE VIOLATE THESE BOUNDARIES
> 
> No matter what you wanna believe about her---NO RESPECTING MOTHER WOULD ENTERTAIN A MAN WHO IS NOT HER H---IN HER HOUSE WITH HER KIDS PRESENT AT 4 A M---and be DRINKING WITH HIM--------THAT STOPS AS OF YESTERDAY
> 
> If this were me---I would Poly her as to the 4 a m night, and ask her if this has happened on other occasions----but then again this is your life isn't it---and right now your so called wonderful wife and mother who drinks with men who are not her H, in the marital home with YOUR KIDS PRESENT, seems to be up on a PEDESTAL


This post really opened my eyes!!! I really do love and adore my wife beyond comprehension, and she has been up on a PEDESTAL our whole marriage. I f***d up the 1st year of our marriage because of the overwhelming stress of a new business, new marriage, a baby, new house and some health issues.. I found escape through gambling. Ever since then, I have been worshipping the ground my wife walks on trying to make up for that year of lying and covering up. I have been working on my self for the following 7 years and have been a great husband to her. 

I have never cheated on her, been emotionally unavailable, done any drugs or even gotten drunk through our whole marriage. I have been working tirelessly to make sure that her and the kids have a great life. I earn 100% of the income and have been for our whole marriage, she has never had a job since she has been married to me. I then come home and help her with 1/2 her **** around the house because she guilt trips me into feeling that I am never around for her and the kids and she has to raise the kids all on her own. 

She uses the same excuse to get me to stay home with the kids, to give her "HER" time, since I am gone all day and she is stuck at home with the kids. Yet, she never has offered to get a job to help me financially so I can stop working so hard. I constantly get reminded of how I am "NEVER AROUND", "SHE HAS TO DO EVERYTHING ON HER OWN" .. YADA YADA ... yet I do all the work, take care of all the house ****, all the bills, anything to do with money, legal ****, taxes, repairs, computers, electronics and pretty much everything else... all I expect from her is to be a good mother.

I NOW REALIZE THAT: by doing all of that I have enabled her to become completely incompetent and dependent on me and pretty much given her a green light to cross any boundary as she wishes, and she justifies it all by saying "I never cheated on you." Not realizing that some of the disrespectful s**t she is doing is just as damaging to our marriage as a PA or EA.

Through all of your comments and reading other posts, I have learned about gaslighting, rug sweeping, blame shifting and many other manipulating techniques used by WS to justify their wayward behavior and guilt tripping you into allowing them to continue to misbehave. I decided to no longer accept any of this behavior from my wife and made it very clear to her that I am going to leave her if we do not set very clear and specific boundaries and she absolutely respects these boundaries 100%. We addressed her male friends and no more hanging out with any male friend alone, if I was not there. She was very sincere and agreed to all of my terms and also agreed to go to Marriage Counseling. 

Everything seemed it was going great, but my gut was telling me that there was still something wrong. I guess because of this forum, I could now see through the **** and I just could not trust her any more. So, I decided to go through her recent text messages to assure my self that she was not hiding something else from me. I discovered many txts had been deleted, they were from a few months ago, before we had the talk but it was a BIG RED FLAG. I confronted her about it and as before she blew up and flipped everything over on me, as if I am at fault because I have no trust in her and she never has given me a reason to not trust her because in her DELUSIONAL ways she has never lied to me. NO, THIS S**T IS NOT GOING WORK THIS TIME!!! 

She says she contacted this guy to get a little weed, as I know she smokes on occasion and I am ok with that. She erased the messages, because she did not want me to get any wrong ideas and cause a fight... blah blah... Being able to see through the BULL **** and having my RADAR super sensitive now, I played along and dropped the subject. I then went ahead and retrieved all of the deleted messages and reading through all of the crap, I pretty much realized that my whole world is getting ready to crumble around me.

I find out that my great wife, the great mother of my children has been having her DRUG DEALER friend over, (not OM friend, different guy) when I was working or away on business and they have been doing drugs in my home with my kids sleeping in the other room!!! There is mentions of Weed, Coke, Ex... who knows WTF else!!! He even mentions that he likes it better when my older one is asleep, because she interrupts them and they can't get as hight... and she agrees!!! She has been supplying drugs and prescription pills to her friends acting like a middle man, getting discounted drugs from him, and freebies. No mention of any sexual stuff or any affair but at this moment I DON'T DOUBT ANYTHING!!! This s**t going on with my kids around, drove me fk ballistic. I was supposed to be home after work today, but I am not going home because I am afraid I am going to just kill her. I have to be smart and need alone time to calm down and process all this. 

I KNOW WHAT I NEED TO DO!!! I just feel so destroyed now that I just can't think. I am in the dreaded FOG!!! I still love her to death, but I just don't know how I will ever be able to get over this or ever see her again as I once used to. OMG!!! The more I think about it, the more it just drives me insane.

Providing that she agreed to change and stick to strict boundaries and go to counseling, after all of this crap happened but before I knew about it, I don't know if I should still give it a shot, and maybe snap her a** back to reality and work this out over a long period of time... or I should just file for D and move on with my life?

She does not know I know all of this. I know what her reaction will be when I tell her that I retrieved all her deleted messages!!! WTF do I do? Is this a DEAL BREAKER? Do I not even give her a chance to show me she can change and we can make it work? She gave me that chance 7 years ago and I changed, but now the tables have turned! Do I owe her that same 1 time chance as I got, or just file papers??? I have absolutely accepted REALITY and am READY to do either one, I just need help figuring out which one do we start with.

Any advise please?


----------



## jack.c

why worry on her reaction? I mean you know all this stuf and you are worried about getting her pxssed? REALLY==??
You tell all that you know and dont give a sxit what she thinks about it! YOU SET THE RULES AND GET PXSSED NOT HER!


----------



## Tobyboy

Drug dealers don't give discounts or freebies without anything in return. Sorry, but that's the truth!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

Maven

Do you owe her a chance?

Yes.

You owe her a chance to come clean on everything.
You owe her a chance to go to rehab.
You owe her a chance to not have her and her pimp oh sorry dealer not get arrested.
You owe her a chance not to file charges of child endangerment against her and seek custody.

These are the new boundaries you should establish with your wife when you present your evidence with a var in your pocket.

Speak to an attorney and a good rehab program for her. Because if she is messing with harder drugs she will have to go.

There is no excuse for endangering your kids.

HM


----------



## Chaparral

If she did coke with him he may not have been able to get it up. If they did extasy together I believe they went at it lik rabbits. Ex makes you super, super horney, that's why people love it.


----------



## Malaise

You ask if this is a deal breaker.

She lets a criminal into your home, with your children present.

She does drugs with him. As Chap said about ecstasy...

Throw in exposure to STDs 

It's not too farfetched to think that the police could have arrested him ( and her ) at your home for possession and intent to distribute.

You could have lost your house ( RICO ).

And, your children to the state.

Deal breaker?


----------



## Tobyboy

Also....make sure you find her stash before she disposes it. Do not let her out of your sight when you confront!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

My approach would be that I had new information and she would have to take a polygraph or get out. It seems that is the only way you will find out if she had sex with these guys. If she's been having dope sex, it might not be the usual affair where they would even talk about in their texts.


----------



## carpenoctem

Maybe mistakenly so, but my T radar just beeped.


----------



## Chaparral

Sure explains why her and her friend was still up at 4am "drunk."


----------



## Chaparral

carpenoctem said:


> Maybe mistakenly so, but my T radar just beeped.


Go back and read the forum rules.


----------



## lovelygirl

Wow!! Just WOW!!!!!!

Too much going on, Maven!!
Is it worth it to let it all behind and pretend like nothing happened?

Not only she disrespected and betrayed you but she was/is also a DANGER for the kids!!!!

Think about them first of all. How can they be around such mother?? What is it in her heart that made her do all that sh*t while kids were around, in that very same house??? 
HOW SELFISH OF HER!!!!

Let's not talk about the hang-out with other men that she had behind your back. Isn't this a slap in your face??

You did wrong in the past but I'm sure what you did doesn't come close to what she's doing now!!

If this all this is not a deal breaker for you, then what is it? 
How far will you allow her to go with her sh*tty, irresponsible behavior as a mother and wife???


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Tobyboy said:


> Drug dealers don't give discounts or freebies without anything in return. Sorry, but that's the truth!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree. If they were doing coke, they were probably having sex. I know, because it happened to me. My ex joined a pool/billiard league. Over time she found a new "friend" I didn't find out until she was already gone that her friend was dealing weed and coke.

This guy had other women in his coral, all there because of the cheap, or free coke.

If he was coming over to do coke with her, it's very likely that sex was involved. He wouldn't waist his time hanging around, doing free lines with her just for her personality. Think about it. He was getting something more out of spending his time with her than supplying one of his distributors...


----------



## MSP

What should you do? Seriously? Lol! 

Call the police on them both, then file for divorce.


----------



## Ripper

Read a thread posted by "BashfulBull" and read your future.


----------



## treyvion

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> I agree. If they were doing coke, they were probably having sex. I know, because it happened to me. My ex joined a pool/billiard league. Over tIime she found a new "friend" I didn't find out until she was already gone that her friend was dealing weed and coke.
> 
> This guy had other women in his coral, all there because of the cheap, or free coke.
> 
> If he was coming over to do coke with her, it's very likely that sex was involved. He wouldn't waist his time hanging around, doing free lines with her just for her personality. Think about it. He was getting something more out of spending his time with her than supplying one of his distributors...


Would a weed man drive two hrs in a blizzard to bring free weed to a client?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

Closely check your bank acct. How was she paying for dope? Selling dope to her friends to pay for hers? Screwing the dealer? Not saying anything about sex in her texts means nothing, that kind of payment could have been taken for granted.


----------



## bandit.45

If there were drugs there was sex.

What a disgusting woman...doing that with her children in the house... 

Oh MAven, Maven.... brother save those texts, find you the meanest nastiest shark lawyer and go for 100% custody. I mean hire a shark that eats other sharks... someone who will drag your wife around by the hair in the courtroom.


----------



## carpenoctem

Chaparral said:


> Go back and read the forum rules.



Oh. I was not aware there are / were new forum rules for this, Chapparel.

I will refer those. Thank you.


----------



## DarkHoly

Dumbest ****ing question anyone has ever asked.


----------



## badmemory

Maven,

I think you should consider this option. Confront her calmly. Tell her unless she agrees to check in to re-hab, for a *minimum* of two weeks, you're going straight to divorce and will petition for full custody, using the evidence you have against her. In the mean time, you'll be deciding on what you want to do with this marriage.

If she doesn't agree on the spot, you're done.

If she does agree, use the time she is away to put your ducks in a row and to think about whether you have the where with all to stay married to an addict. Don't visit her, but you can talk with her on the phone at designated times during the week. Talk to an addiction counselor about what you'll be dealing with. Talk to an attorney and sort out your divorce and legal options.

Get her in re-hab as quickly as humanly possible.

Good luck and keep posting.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Maven really REALLY does not understand the drug culture. He has no clue that his wife was banged six ways from Sunday. She was likely passed around to all of her dealer's friends to pay for her fix. Nothing more than a party favor.


----------



## WhiteRaven

OP is not really the sharpest knife in the kitchen, is he?


----------



## warlock07

What do you think she will do ?


1). Reform 

2). Get better at hiding stuff. 

And you will always have 2 hanging on your head. How could she afford the drugs, even at a discount ?

How the hell did you not notice until now ? 

And did she stop it all of a sudden ? Or did she find avenues that did not leave a trail. 

Why did it take couple of hours for simple grocery shopping ? 

Read the thread by a poster called GutPunch.


----------



## happy as a clam

Maven,

Print out ALL of those texts and emails... make hard copies as well as digital copies.

You're going to need them when this heats up and custody comes into play.

She is on a VERY slippery slope.


----------



## happy as a clam

WorkingOnMe said:


> Maven really REALLY does not understand the drug culture. He has no clue that his wife was banged six ways from Sunday. She was likely passed around to all of her dealer's friends to pay for her fix. Nothing more than a party favor.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Sex = $$$ when it comes to drugs.


----------



## bandit.45

WorkingOnMe said:


> Maven really REALLY does not understand the drug culture. He has no clue that his wife was banged six ways from Sunday. She was likely passed around to all of her dealer's friends to pay for her fix. Nothing more than a party favor.



:iagree:

He needs to read BashfulBull's thread and see how low BB's xWW sunk in the depths of her meth addiction. She was trading sex for her fix, and even got double-teamed by dealers a couple of times. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/93642-i-abandoned-my-cheating-wife-46.html


----------



## badmemory

Maven,

I've been to re-hab myself (alcohol). It was an eye-opener and an education. One thing I can tell you from listening to all the other addicts' war stories, is that staying clean is not a given. I would say that 75% of the ones that were there were repeaters. Also, just about of all of them agreed to go for a reason. To save their marriage or their job. 

I also learned a lot about addiction behavior. I'll just say that I would be surprised if your wife didn't have sex along with the drugs. Addicts are deceivers. They don't think like the non-addicts. Your wife will try to convince you she's not an addict, that she can quit on her own. Don't even entertain that.

You need to educate yourself on their behavior; because if you're going to think about R, you need to know what you're facing. 

Putting her in re-hab may disrupt your life a bit, but it will buy you some needed time. After she returns you should go to some meetings with her to see if she is owning her addiction. Even then, you still don't have to make a decision before you're ready.


----------



## turnera

Just tell her you can't handle a wife who isn't home with her family, that if she wants to act single, she's welcome to leave you and the kids.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Shirley thinks you should turn your evidence over to the local drug task force. If she's in prison for this the divorce would be a slam dunk and no worries about alimony or custody.

I think that would be a mistake. With civil forfeiture laws the way they are the cops would likely seize your house and cars and probably put your kids into the foster care system too. 

I think I would use it for leverage. Get the nastiest shark lawyer you can find and have him draw up a divorce agreement where you get full custody and the home and she leaves with no alimony or child support. You can let her keep a car and give her a modest lump sum payment to make it look more equitable but get her away from the kids. Supervised visitation only. Let her know that she can agree to it or you can turn all that stuff over to the cops and you'll get all that stuff anyway while she's in prison.


----------



## confusedFather

You said you handled the money in the house. If you don't see money coming out of the bank accounts to pay for the drugs it should be obvious how she's paying.

Honestly, her cheating is the least of your worries now.

To answer your questions, no you don't owe her a chance even though she gave you one. She has put your children's lives at risk by bringing a drug dealer into your home. You need to get them out of there as quickly as possible. If she gets clean then you can decide if you want to give her a second chance.


----------



## Maven

DarkHoly said:


> Dumbest ****ing question anyone has ever asked.


If you have nothing helpful to add, why post anything at all??? I went through much of your posts and they are all stupid and pointless, mostly making some smart *** remark about the OP or the situation trying to sound funny. There is nothing of value you add to this forum, why do you spend any time here besides some lame attempt to make yourself feel important and to compensate for some personal shortcoming. 



WhiteRaven said:


> OP is not really the sharpest knife in the kitchen, is he?


Same goes to you... What the fk is the point of your comment??? Same as DarkHoly. You think some stupid remark like this makes you MATTER in any way? WTF is the point of it? Are you helping in any way? Is this what this forum is for, so idiots like you can make themselves feel funny by posting idiotic remarks on someones thread who is going through the toughest point in their live. You know nothing about me, this comment only speaks about YOU!!! 

That goes to many of you here who always have "THE" answer and KNOW IT ALL and make these STUPID smart aleck remarks that do not add anything of value to this forum. You know who you are!!! 

I might be new here, but just cause you have been here for 3 years and you have 4000 post does not make you some GURU on LIFE and give you the right to post dumb smart aleck remarks to make fun of the OP or the situation or whatever. It only shows that you are a lonely loser who has nothing better to do but to spend your time on online forums trying to create some type of importance to your non important life.

If any of you took the time to actually read what I wrote, you will learn something called "LOGIC" trying to be smart and look at all of my options before I jump to an IMPULSIVE decision and do something that will forever change the lives of two innocent children and everyone else involved. Just because I am asking for opinion and other peoples input does not mean I do not know what I have to do, or that I am stupid. I can clearly see the situation. I just want to be sure that I am using "LOGIC" and not acting on anger or impulse. 

Many of you act as if EVERY SITUATION IS IDENTICAL and people don't ever make mistakes, or have the capability to change and be remorseful and change themselves for the better. Quickly ready to TROW THEM TO THE CURB and move on!!! Maybe that is in order, maybe not. I am going to do what has to be done, but first I want to make sure that I am doing the smart logical thing. If your MOTHER was involved in all of these situations you would not be so quick to throw her to the curb, would you??? You might think of a way to help her, or put her inline or reconcile the situation before you cut her off. Again, just trying to be logical. 

Yea, yea.. I already know what your remarks are going to be... Go ahead, let them fly!!!


----------



## anchorwatch

Maven it's the open internet. You only need a computer or smart phone to qualify. You've had good and bad post, many of them slanted, as you're in an infidelity section. Take what you need and ignore the rest.

And familiarize yourself with the ignore control.


----------



## Ripper

Get ahead of this OP. When the DTF kicks in the door, everyone goes. 

Who is going to take care of the kids if you are locked down for possession or trafficking?


----------



## the guy

My old lady was getting smacked around by me back in the day and she gave me a second chance. When I found out she was phucking around I gave her a scone chance, but the thing is we both did the heavy lifting to change and with that we got help from a pro to save our marriage.

As you well know this is n addictive behavior and it will take alt of work to fix this crap and at the end of the day we both know it's up to her to straighten her own sh!t out...you can't control that, but you can control what you tolorate, so face this head on and make no exception.

Chicks dig confident guys so be one and show her the tough love that will either bring her home or push her away... At the end of the day it will be her choice to stick around or give up.

Dude she can either keep up with you or not... It's her call!

Again what you do have control of is what you will tolorate!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Oh and if she is distributing to her friends, that makes her a drug dealer as well. Toyboy has it right like you wouldn't believe. Get out of the fog and get her out of the house. You do not owe her the chance to explain, excuse or tell a version of her story.

Your daughter INTERRUPTED the drug party and she joked about that like it was nothing. All I'll say is, she broke every major drug dealing rule imaginable. As they CYA dude, get her and that crap out of your house.



> Many of you act as if EVERY SITUATION IS IDENTICAL and people don't ever make mistakes, or have the capability to change and be remorseful and change themselves for the better. Quickly ready to TROW THEM TO THE CURB and move on!!! Maybe that is in order, maybe not. I am going to do what has to be done, but first I want to make sure that I am doing the smart logical thing. If your MOTHER was involved in all of these situations you would not be so quick to throw her to the curb, would you??? You might think of a way to help her, or put her inline or reconcile the situation before you cut her off. Again, just trying to be logical.


Your house, your kids and possibly your LIFE are in danger. Her OM is dealing, she is dealing, he is giving her stuff to deal, they are both "getting high off their own supply," your kids are around, people look for her for drugs and I can keep going on and on and on.

My oldest is currently kicked to the curb. I help her, but she is not welcome in or around her daughter, my children or my house. So, yep, you can get them help After you protect the innocents.


----------



## the guy

BTW...
It's phucked up to insult folks when they come here for advice and perspective from people that went through the same sh!t....let's not forget where we all came from!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dyokemm

"If your MOTHER was involved in all of these situations you would not be so quick to throw her to the curb, would you???"

Maven,

I totally agree with you on the unnecessary smart-a** tone of many posters.

But as to many of the vets here telling you what they see and the 'script' they see her following, that is something they have learned from a long time, sometimes years, of being here assisting others.

There really is a pattern cheaters follow, with few exceptions.

These unfortunate situations are usually more similar than different, though many of the incidental details will vary since each situation does involve different, individual people.

Their advice comes from the shared similarities, which experience shows are almost universally the same/true.

Don't discount the advice cause it is painful to hear.

Just ignore the snarky, and unhelpful ones.

And to answer the question you posed and I quoted, YES.

A person has to distance themselves from these situations ASAP to protect themselves and their children emotionally, and sometimes physically.

And that is true no matter who the guilty party is.

Staying and attempting to reconcile a relationship should only be attempted when there is no doubt the behavior (infidelity, drugs, etc) will cease forever.

Usually the offending person will only be snapped out of their selfish crap when they see that their behavior is fast destroying any chance of them keeping their former life.

If they realize they can gaslight and manipulate the BS with anger or crocodile tears, they will continue to follow their selfish path because the BS is enabling it.


----------



## Headspin

Maven listen up - this is not 'smart arse' from me - this is fact

We are right about this stuff because a thousand cases all ending the same way make us right. YOU are NOT going to be the one in a million who niced / encouraged his wife, who no longer loves respects or cherishes him, back into her adoring arms. 

This will NOT happen to you. You will not be an exception. 

Your wife has clinically gutted you and left you on the slab for feeding later. 

This is what infidelity, deceit, treachery and betrayal is all about. This is the reality of that appalling selfish entitled mindset that sits in the cheats head.

We have seen this a thousand times and will see it another thousand times. As someone once said it is the "unmistakeable sound of inevitability" 

You need to get a grip in the reality of this

She is not stable as your recent revelations prove

Focus on your children and get them and you safe - emotionally and physically. You need to start thinking about your and their needs and forget about what your wayward wife needs 

Today


----------



## turnera

Maven said:


> Am I wrong for feeling disrespected?


Maven, rude posts aside, you're getting the advice we give everyone who has become a beta male in his own marriage. It happens to many many men. And once it happens, the wife loses respect for her man, and the rest is history, as you are now experiencing. 

The ONLY way you'll get your marriage back under control is if you take a stand, man up, and REFUSE to be disrespected this way. Once you do that, she will either wake up to what she's been doing or she'll admit that she loves "Joe" and she runs away with him. Either way, your problem will be solved. Either way HAS to be better than what you have now.


----------



## Malaise

Please listen.


----------



## confusedFather

Maven,
I've posted similar rants when I was new. That was before I realized most are really trying to help and there is a 'script' for infidelity. Sometimes you need to hear the tough love to get it past what you want to believe. I'm not condoning those who just post snide remarks without offering anything constructive. But sometimes the tough love can come across as pejorative. 

Don't over think in regards to your logical approach to things. I too try to rely on logic rather than instinct and emotion. However, it is easy to believe what you want to be true and use logic to justify it. Sometimes, intuition is appropriate. Just be careful and learn to trust your gut.


----------



## treyvion

confusedFather said:


> Maven,
> I've posted similar rants when I was new. That was before I realized most are really trying to help and there is a 'script' for infidelity. Sometimes you need to hear the tough love to get it past what you want to believe. I'm not condoning those who just post snide remarks without offering anything constructive. But sometimes the tough love can come across as pejorative.
> 
> Don't over think in regards to your logical approach to things. I too try to rely on logic rather than instinct and emotion. However, it is easy to believe what you want to be true and use logic to justify it. Sometimes, intuition is appropriate. Just be careful and learn to trust your gut.


Trust your gut but also know that certain situations are pretty common and play out a certain way. Your feelings might not be able to percieve the correct way to position yourself.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Even if some of us think/realize that he still has to come to terms with the likelyhood that his wife was having sex with another man(regurdless of the "reasons", drugs, or otherwise).

Lamb basting him is not going to help. If anything, he's not going to come back here. It's been a day since he last posted. And now is the time that he could use our guidance the most.

I'm guilty of it myself, but I always re-read my posts a day later and delete them if I thought I went overboard. The BS's that come here are already hurting. This OP is just realized how bad it might be with his wifes infidelity. Wailing the crap out of him with 2x4's is only going drive him away.

Maven, if you're reading this, a lot of good advice has been given and there will be more to come if you want to hear it. Try to ignore the harsher posts. I went through what they're going through now. They feel that you're not acting fast enough, or doing the right things. It's an attempt to get you p!ssed enough to act. Just go at your own pace and use your head not your heart when making important decisions. 

At least try to eat enough and get enough sleep. You have a lot to deal with right now. You don't want to start running your health down.

I was in a simular situation as yours in the fact that my ex cheated on me and finally left me for a guy that delt weed and coke. Her two favorites. The fact that we have kids makes it exponetionally worse.

I'm sorry for what you're going through. I certainly can relate.


----------

