# questions about "girls night out"



## jealoushubby

Looking for some perspective here. When my wife goes out with her other married female friends for dinner and/or drinks she usually gets dresses up and looks pretty damn hot. She says its only for her friends and that women are different like that and basically dress up for each other and not to impress guys at the bar. Is this normally true ladies? I gotta believe part of it is wanting to get hit on by guys but she denies it.

My 2nd question is what are other married peoples opinion on flirting. What I mean is if the wife is out and fllirts a little with a cute bartender or their group accepts a free drink or 2 from a group of guys who know they are married. Should that be ok if she comes home tipsy and a bit horny? Part of me wants to just stop overthinking it and just enjoy the hot sex that follows but the jealous guy in me always wants to know every detail. I am confident she has never cheated on me and never would but her being hit on and possibly flirting back bothers me some. Especially if she is drinking bc I know she gets more expressive and definately hornier when she drinks. Help!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## A Bit Much

> Looking for some perspective here. When my wife goes out with her other married female friends for dinner and/or drinks she usually gets dresses up and looks pretty damn hot.


If my husband got upset because when I went out I looked HOT I'd :scratchhead:

Mom jeans, nikes and a sweatshirt isn't even allowed at some places.

Stop overthinking it and enjoy the spoils when she gets home. Some people have wives who do this and don't come home at all.


----------



## Gaia

This is why I have never went out to a bar, ladies night or not. I know i get more expressive, loose, ect when drinking so I do so at home with hubby and NOT with anyone else. As far as ladies night out.. when I've ever done something like that it was with a group of females going to one of their apartments and watching pride and prejudice. None of us got dressed up.. in fact it was kind of a sleep over type thing. Of course every woman is different so maybe someone else can help with that....


----------



## Hicks

Your problem is you ask your wife why she gets dressed up.
Of course women get dressed up to attract males. This is biology. Does that mean she wants to cheat? Not at all.

GNO's, flirting, etc... The mistake you will make is debating it with her. In many marriages, this could be just a bit of fun for the wife, and similar to reading a book. But in others it could be the slippery slope to cheating... But you have to decide what YOUR policy is and then own it. For example, if you like the way she comes home you own it that you are allowing this to happen and have done your own risk / reward analysis that green lights it.... If you don't wan't her to do it you have the undebatble policy that is must stop.


----------



## mommyofthree

I work from home all week with kids so when I get a ladies night out you can bet im going to try my best to look as hot as I can.I do not try to get hit on by the guys..thats not my intention.


----------



## hookares

Since becoming single, I have wasted a lot of time meeting "single" women in bars that turned out to be married, to the point that I no longer even speak to women when in a bar unless she's bar tending.


----------



## A Bit Much

You know, I always thought in these situations people got dressed up because it made them feel good.

Maybe I'm wrong. Yes, it can be considered a motive, but how can a motivation to boost your self esteem be a bad thing?


----------



## that_girl

I get dressed up because I like looking good with or without my husband around. lol. I wouldn't wear my 'cleaning' clothes. I get dressed up when I go out with Hubs too. Show the boobies and the legs when I go out with him 

I don't flirt with people when and if I go out. I just chill with the people I'm with and then go home.


----------



## A Bit Much

that_girl said:


> *I get dressed up because I like looking good with or without my husband around.* lol. I wouldn't wear my 'cleaning' clothes. *I get dressed up when I go out with Hubs too*. Show the boobies and the legs when I go out with him
> 
> I don't flirt with people when and if I go out. I just chill with the people I'm with and then go home.


Maybe that's the problem, the OP's wife doesn't do that. Only when GNO comes around.

I keep it hot and tight with or without my man. It turns him on either way.


----------



## jealoushubby

I actually do LOVE IT when my wife and I go out and she dresses super sexy showing cleavage with a short skirt or something. I just know she gets more open and flirty with me as the drinks keep flowing so I hope thst doesn't happen when I'm not around.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

IF your W acts like you are always next to her no matter were she is at, and behaves as though you are there then she has some great boundries.
But if you see that her boundries are different from when you are present and when you are not then there is the slippery slope.

IMHO if a spouse is flirting with anyone other then ther SO then there is lack of boundries that needs to be addressed.

It sucks but when we're not with our spouse, we really don't know if there is a behavioral change that threatens the marriage.


----------



## A Bit Much

jealoushubby said:


> I actually do LOVE IT when my wife and I go out and she dresses super sexy showing cleavage with a short skirt or something. I just know she gets more open and flirty with me as the drinks keep flowing so I hope thst doesn't happen when I'm not around.....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You're her husband. She better be open and flirty with you! 

I think you're going to far with your imagination here. Just because she does it with you (her husband!) doesn't mean in any way she's doing it with strange men.

I'll tell you something else about GNO's... the girls keep men AWAY from them. They're not out for that. A gaggle of women (from what I've seen) actually keeps men away. Too many of them in one place... and they're all sticking close together. They also protect each other from really aggressive guys. That is if they're true friends.


----------



## that_girl

Do you take her to nice places? No one gets dressed up and flirty when going to a fast food place. kwim?


----------



## swedish

jealoushubby said:


> She says its only for her friends and that women are different like that and basically dress up for each other and not to impress guys at the bar. Is this normally true ladies? I gotta believe part of it is wanting to get hit on by guys but she denies it.


Yes, I have found when going out with friends, we all usually tend to dress nice, etc...definitely not to impress other men...sometimes we are just going to dinner or shopping and then home.

I'm not sure if I'm trying to impress anyone, but I feel better if I am dressed nice and hair/makeup is done...whether it's GNO or a date w/my husband.


----------



## uzername

jealous - you sound exactly like me. it would drive me insane if i thought about my husband flirting. he is a very open, friendly guy and will talk to anyone about anything, so it wouldn't surprise me if he was flirty to a waitress when he's out with his guys. i cannot allow myself to think about it too much.

as far as when women go out, we do tend to dress up for each other,and enjoy getting smiles or looks from men we don't know. it's just fun and a nice ego stroke. if you have no concerns about her fidelity i hope you can just remember that she isn't doing anything wrong and in fact her going out and doing some innocent flirting is good for your relationship.


----------



## Enginerd

I think its OK as long as your allowed to do an equivalent "BNO". We all know its different for women in this area. Most average looking women can go into any bar and find someone who will give them some sexual attention. It's not so for an average man. An average man must pay for this kind of attention. So I think the equvalent BNO would be for you and a couple of friends to go a strip club, get drunk and "flirt" with the girls. 

Which situation has more potential to damage your marriage?

Your drunk wife meeting some horny dude that will say and do anything to get into her pants?

or

Your drunk self shoving dollars in the G string of some professional who only wants to get into your wallet?


----------



## MrK

Don't be such a controlling paranoid jerk. It's not like she dressing like a **** and hanging out at places where AT LEAST 50% of the people there are looking to get laid, including all of the men. And it's not like alcohol will be consumed in quantity. And anyhow, men will see that it's just a bunch of married gals dancing in their man-free bubble and leave them alone.

And just because SOME married women go to these places with the intent of partaking in inappropriate behavior, doesn't mean that your wife will. And really: Think about it. The ones that DO have purely innocent intent and end up making a drunken mistake don't have the constitution your wife has.

No, just because they call these places meat markets and the REASON they exist is so that members of the opposite sex can hook up is NO reason to not want your wife to go there. She loves you and would NEVER do anything inappropriate.

NEVER!

So what. The boys there may be the ones that pry her with alcohol and get her horny, but YOU get sloppy seconds. They do all of the work and you get the pleasure. What suckers they are. Who cares that she's thinking of that 28 year old ADONIS that made her feel like a queen all night while she's screwing you. It's just the sex that matters, right? The boys at the bar get theirs, but what you get is better.

Nothing like a meat market to get your wife's juices flowing for you.

It's ALL GOOD!


----------



## Grayson

There are also married/attached women who, quite frankly, play the proverbial game on a GNO...be friendly, even a little flirtatious so men will buy them drinks. The men are hoping to pick up the women...the women are looking to save money on drinks. I've even got a female co-worker who will go to a club with her bf, and - if she's ready for a drink - split off from him, circle the floor, get hit on, accept a drink, excuse herself to "go to the ladies' room" and rejoin her bf. she's even told me a story about scoring a drink, giving it to her bf, then scoring another drink for herself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## A Bit Much

Grayson said:


> There are also married/attached women who, quite frankly, play the proverbial game on a GNO...be friendly, even a little flirtatious so men will buy them drinks. The men are hoping to pick up the women...the women are looking to save money on drinks. * I've even got a female co-worker who will go to a club with her bf, and - if she's ready for a drink - split off from him, circle the floor, get hit on, accept a drink, excuse herself to "go to the ladies' room" and rejoin her bf*. she's even told me a story about scoring a drink, giving it to her bf, then scoring another drink for herself.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Both of them are like school in the summer time...

NO CLASS.

Seriously it's bad enough she does it, it's just as bad he goes along with it.


----------



## MrK

The problem is, the wives that are going to w.h.o.r.e around tell their husbands the EXACT SAME stories as the "legitimate" ones. Is his wife going to say "I'm heading out to meat markets to flirt, dance, drink and party with strange men all night"? No. They're ALL just out for the "dancing".

I know you trust your wife, but even a trusting husband would be STUPID to let his wife go to Pick-up joints and not check up.

One night of a PI will go a LONG way towards confirming your trust is warranted. But I can all but GUARANTEE her actions will surprise you. She doesn't tell you EVERYTHING that goes on there.


----------



## A Bit Much

MrK said:


> The problem is, the wives that are going to w.h.o.r.e around tell their husbands the EXACT SAME stories as the "legitimate" ones. Is his wife going to say "I'm heading out to meat markets to flirt, dance, drink and party with strange men all night"? No. They're ALL just out for the "dancing".
> 
> I know you trust your wife, but even a trusting husband would be STUPID to let his wife go to Pick-up joints and not check up.
> 
> One night of a PI will go a LONG way towards confirming your trust is warranted.


I may have a GNO 3 maybe 4 times a year. If my husband followed me or hired a PI I'd be pretty damn hot. 

Regular GNO's are a cause for alarm. If it's once a month? Even that's not bad. 

MrK you don't like these places for valid reasons, but that in no way means every woman out there is like your wife.


----------



## Peachy Cat

MrK said:


> Don't be such a controlling paranoid jerk. It's not like she dressing like a **** and hanging out at places where AT LEAST 50% of the people there are looking to get laid, including all of the men. And it's not like alcohol will be consumed in quantity. And anyhow, men will see that it's just a bunch of married gals dancing in their man-free bubble and leave them alone.
> 
> And just because SOME married women go to these places with the intent of partaking in inappropriate behavior, doesn't mean that your wife will. And really: Think about it. The ones that DO have purely innocent intent and end up making a drunken mistake don't have the constitution your wife has.
> 
> No, just because they call these places meat markets and the REASON they exist is so that members of the opposite sex can hook up is NO reason to not want your wife to go there. She loves you and would NEVER do anything inappropriate.
> 
> NEVER!
> 
> So what. The boys there may be the ones that pry her with alcohol and get her horny, but YOU get sloppy seconds. They do all of the work and you get the pleasure. What suckers they are. Who cares that she's thinking of that 28 year old ADONIS that made her feel like a queen all night while she's screwing you. It's just the sex that matters, right? The boys at the bar get theirs, but what you get is better.
> 
> Nothing like a meat market to get your wife's juices flowing for you.
> 
> It's ALL GOOD!


MrK, you sound like the male version of me. This was great.

My Man and I think so much alike, I seriously doubt this will ever be a problem. But, I can tell you this: I would MUCH rather spend a quiet evening at home, watching a movie or reading in bed with my Man than out trying to impress my friends with clothes I'm not comfortable in. I'd rather not have to worry about who might vomit in the car on the way home. I'd rather not have to feel like a prude by saying "no" if some guy happened to ask me to dance. WHY would I want to do anything like that? I've never understood GNO, never will I guess.


----------



## lovelygirl

A married woman should not accept drinks from other men at the bar otherwise it implies she's being flirty.


----------



## the guy

If a married man accepts a drink from other men at the bar whats that imply? LOL LOL LOL


----------



## MrK

A Bit Much said:


> MrK you don't like these places for valid reasons, but that in no way means every woman out there is like your wife.


So what is the secret to knowing if your wife is going to w.h.o.r.e around vs. just dance in a man-free bubble? It all looks the same. I trusted my wife, just like the OP. Just like A LOT of married men who were told they were controlling jerks for having a problem with this.

Just give him the secret and all will be good. I'll tell you one thing: Just by walking out the door dressed like a **** puts her closer to the inappropriate category that not. She's in the MINORITY if she's being 100% honest about these nights out. That much I KNOW. I've done enough reading.


----------



## Hope1964

I don't understand GNO either. If I wanna look hot and get tipsy I would much rather be with my guy than a bunch of girlfriends. I don't like anyone else enough really to get that loose around them. And the whole bar scene has always just made me feel icky.


----------



## lovelygirl

the guy said:


> If a married man accepts a drink from other men at the bar whats that imply? LOL LOL LOL


It implies they are gay. 


lol 


j/k.


----------



## Grayson

lovelygirl said:


> A married woman should not accept drinks from other men at the bar otherwise it implies she's being flirty.


Accepting a drink, period, assuming no flirtatious behavior, IMPLIES that she wants a free drink. The man buying the drink INFERS she's being flirty.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

Damb it, hows a guy (straight) get free drink around here!


----------



## Gaia

Steal them


----------



## galian84

Depends on what she does during GNOs, and how often is she going?

When I meet up with my girlfriends and know there will be drinking / clubbing / bar-hopping involved, I'll do my best to get my boyfriend to come, and most of the time, he does and we all have a good time. I did go out with a friend one night, stayed out until past midnight, got drunk...and I felt kind of guilty when I came home to my boyfriend, for going out drinking without him. 

If your wife is going out with her girlfriends a couple times a year, especially if you guys have no kids, it's no big deal, but if it's more than once a month or you have young children...well, that's a different story.


----------



## ScaredandUnsure

The only GNO's I've done in the past 5 years (including when I was single) has been the movies with one of my best female friends. We're actually due to go out for our once a year movie pretty soon.


----------



## jealoushubby

To clarify my wife usually goes with friends to the movies, shopping or to get pedicures or something. Maybe once every 4-5 months she goes to the bar for a couple of margaritas with friends. We have 3 young kids and she mainly is home with them so that's one reason she likes to dress up she says so she can feel like a "woman" and not just a mom in sweatpants and a tshirt with her hair pulled up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lovelygirl

I don't think there's anything to worry about as long as she comes home in time, never gets drunk and takes care of you and the kids.


----------



## MrK

jealoushubby said:


> basically dress up for each other and not to impress guys at the bar.
> 
> What I mean is if the wife is out and fllirts a little with a cute bartender or their group accepts a free drink or 2 from a group of guys who know they are married. Should that be ok if she comes home tipsy and a bit horny?
> 
> but her being hit on and possibly flirting back bothers me some. Especially if she is drinking bc I know she gets more expressive and definately hornier when she drinks. Help!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



That's funny, a very large percentage of your rather small post involved drinking, bars, s.l.u.t.t.y outfits and getting hit on by men. Sorry I sent everyone off on a tangent. Didn't know your issue revolved around movies and mani/pedi's. Please accept my apologies.


----------



## Peachy Cat

MrK, I read the same things you did...

I am guessing the experiences of the betrayed spouses on this board were a little hard for the OP to hear.

Many of us know how something so seemingly "innocent" can go terribly awry. Many of know the lies that betrayers tell. Many of us know how being the one sitting at home oblivious feels.


----------



## jealoushubby

Wow MrK, sorry if I hit a nerve, just looking for some advice. I can tell someone did u wrong in a bad way
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## that_girl

I only get drunk with Hubs (like this last weekend). 

I'll have a glass of wine or two with friends...but at my home so I can just wobble to bed 

GNO is so overrated, imo. Expensive and loud and lame. I'd rather sit at my home or a friend's home and talk and connect. That's how I am with my friend's anyway.


----------



## galian84

jealoushubby said:


> To clarify my wife usually goes with friends to the movies, shopping or to get pedicures or something. Maybe once every 4-5 months she goes to the bar for a couple of margaritas with friends. We have 3 young kids and she mainly is home with them so that's one reason she likes to dress up she says so she can feel like a "woman" and not just a mom in sweatpants and a tshirt with her hair pulled up.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ohh, well, in that case, it doesn't sound like you have much to worry about. I thought that she was going out bar-hopping or clubbing often, and that's why you were worried (I'd be, if my boyfriend was consistently doing those things without me!)

If she is not acting any differently toward you, and is still a good wife and mother, and has not given you any reason to worry, then I'd just let her go and have a good time =)


----------



## Conrad

that_girl said:


> I only get drunk with Hubs (like this last weekend).
> 
> I'll have a glass of wine or two with friends...but at my home so I can just wobble to bed
> 
> GNO is so overrated, imo. Expensive and loud and lame. I'd rather sit at my home or a friend's home and talk and connect. That's how I am with my friend's anyway.


Who could have ever guessed that?:lol:


----------



## that_girl

Conrad said:


> Who could have ever guessed that?:lol:


 Are you being facetious? What's wrong with me only getting drunk with Hubs? If you don't like my posts, don't read them. 

I just think GNO are overrated. OP doesn't seem to have a wife with GNO issues if she's just going for mani/pedi....etc. Not the very Friday night bar/club hopping with the girls.


----------



## KathyBatesel

I don't mind a little flirtation, whether it's him or me doing it. I wouldn't feel the same if either of us had a tendency of not controlling the amount of drinking we do, or if we had problems in the relationship I thought were ripe for inviting affairs.


----------



## uzername

jealoushubby said:


> To clarify my wife usually goes with friends to the movies, shopping or to get pedicures or something. Maybe once every 4-5 months she goes to the bar for a couple of margaritas with friends. We have 3 young kids and she mainly is home with them so that's one reason she likes to dress up she says so she can feel like a "woman" and not just a mom in sweatpants and a tshirt with her hair pulled up.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


that sounds 100% normal to me. whats with everyone bashing on GNO? unless everyone is thinking 20-something sorority girls wearing f-me boots and tube tops? when i think of GNO, i think of going out with a couple of close girlfriends (women who don't have girlfriends... that's another issue), getting a nice dinner or sharing appetizers, having a few brews, people watching and gabbing about stuff. 

and whoever said average looking women can get hit on at any time - maybe if you're not over 28!


----------



## Goldmember357

I think that is odd and she is dressing up for attention and to flirt (just my opinion)

my wife when she has gone out with friends they do not go to bar's or clubs and most of the time my wife wants to bring me along if its anything other than them shopping or lunch. My wife has year's back when we first got married gone out with her friends for girls night out but she always came home that same night and she never dressed "sexy" and would not drink. 

Id find it odd if my wife dressed up sexy and went out to exclusively clubs and bars' with her single friends who all dress the same "sexy" and they go out and drink.

Bar's and clubs are places men go to meet girls to have sex with well at least clubs are. Some bar's are nothing but men with dates but clubs always have single girls or loose girls.


----------



## Goldmember357

that_girl said:


> I only get drunk with Hubs (like this last weekend).
> 
> I'll have a glass of wine or two with friends...but at my home so I can just wobble to bed
> 
> GNO is so overrated, imo. Expensive and loud and lame. I'd rather sit at my home or a friend's home and talk and connect. That's how I am with my friend's anyway.


I think there are two types of women

Those who are wild and like to get crazy

Those who are not wild

sorry if i am stereotyping i just find it odd if a wife would want to dress up all sexy and go to places that are designed for hooking up and doing everything else bad. I mean most of us know how club and bar life is and the people it attracts and why they go there to get drunk and hook up.


----------



## jnj express

Nothing wrong with GNO---but---why does it have to be to a meat market

Why can't it be dinner and the movies, why can't it be a race track, or a casino----or a sporting event----or a card party, or dinner, and an art exhibit, or musical event---or a play

Nothing wrong with going out---but you can cut out, most of the problems, if you strongly suggest no meat market

There are so many legit. things to do, that do not encompass---having men hit on your wife----if your wife is repeatedly going to GNO, that is a meat market---then yes you should put in a very strong complaint---cuz she is putting her self in harm's way---and if something happens, and these women do not have each other's back----your life will never be the same---that is if you are even able to find out!!!!!!


----------



## Conrad

jnj,

The whole GNO thing.

I have a co-worker now who is constantly under the influence of the GNO/meat market crowd.

Says she "doesn't like it"... it's "not her scene"... but she goes anyway. So, perhaps it is her scene.

Weird thing is that she talks about her friends and freely confesses they are idiots. One of them screwed a married guy and got burned. Who would have thought that?

This person - of course - positions herself as an expert on relationships. Gives of her wisdom freely and is wrong on damned near everything. Yet, she wields a certain influence with my co-worker.

In the same way it's difficult for women to grasp what sexual fulfillment actually means to a man, I think it's difficult for men to grasp what attracting attention means to a woman.

Perhaps the whole meat market thing is peer pressure?

I don't know.

I despise those places.


----------



## Jellybeans

jealoushubby said:


> Looking for some perspective here. When my wife goes out with her other married female friends for dinner and/or drinks she usually gets dresses up and looks pretty damn hot. She says its only for her friends and that women are different like that and basically dress up for each other and not to impress guys at the bar. Is this normally true ladies? I gotta believe part of it is wanting to get hit on by guys but she denies it.


Believe it or not, some women like to look nice when they go out. Crazy, huh? 



jealoushubby said:


> My 2nd question is what are other married peoples opinion on flirting.


Flirting with your spouse, ok. Flirting with other people, no way.


----------



## bandit.45

I think what it comes down to is if the woman does not have enough self control and personal boundaries to turn down the advances of a player while on a GNO, she won't be able to turn down such an advance in any other venue (the workplace, soccer games, business trips, parties, etc.). 

It's not the venue or situation that matters, but how that person reacts and makes choices in such situations.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

bandit.45 said:


> I think what it comes down to is if the woman does not have enough self control and personal boundaries to turn down the advances of a player while on a GNO, she won't be able to turn down such an advance in any other venue (the workplace, soccer games, business trips, parties, etc.).
> 
> It's not the venue or situation that matters, but how that person reacts and makes choices in such situations.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Bandit My Man,

You think peer pressure has anything to do with accepting those sorts of advances?


----------



## A Bit Much

My god you would think women were brainless, impressionable femme-bots or something! 

Thank you bandit for putting it so plainly.


----------



## A Bit Much

It's not the place.

Just like FB isn't the cause of broken relationships.

It's the person. If a woman wants to skank out and use the excuse of GNO to do it, thats what it is. An excuse. Something to blame, when the blame is solely on her and her lack of moral judgement.


----------



## bandit.45

Conrad said:


> Bandit My Man,
> 
> You think peer pressure has anything to do with accepting those sorts of advances?


If a man or a woman exposes themselves to toxic friends long enough? Yes. 

My wife is a perfect example. She is out nearly every weekend with her group of cougar girlfriends fishing for young men. She didn't start doing this until I kicked her out after DDay, but I can imagine she has been under their negative influence for years. Shame on me for not intervening long ago.


----------



## Conrad

bandit.45 said:


> If a man or a woman exposes themselves to toxic friends long enough? Yes.
> 
> My wife is a perfect example. She is out nearly every weekend with her group of cougar girlfriends fishing for young men. She didn't start doing this until I kicked her out after DDay, but I can imagine she has been under their negative influence for years. Shame on me for not intervening long ago.


Total agreement.

This whole notion that who you associate with is irrelevant if you are a "strong person"?

Complete horsecrap.


----------



## A Bit Much

I've always believed the birds of a feather theory. You like each other for your commonalities, not your differences.

You got skanky friends? You're a skank too. Just better at hiding it.


----------



## JuliaP

We like to look hot because men look at us and we get affirmation that we are hot. If you have a good relationship then this will work in your favor. When we feel hot- we get horny.


----------



## MadeInMichigan

JuliaP said:


> We like to look hot because men look at us and we get affirmation that we are hot. If you have a good relationship then this will work in your favor. When we feel hot- we get horny.


Then is it ok for us to do that??? Get a haircut, put on some cologne and a nice outfit, go out with the guys to the meatmarket.
Let a woman buy us a drink or three, do a little flirting and then come home aroused and expect sex??? :scratchhead:


----------



## lovelygirl

bandit.45 said:


> I think what it comes down to is if the woman does not have enough self control and personal boundaries to turn down the advances of a player while on a GNO, she won't be able to turn down such an advance in any other venue (the workplace, soccer games, business trips, parties, etc.).
> 
> It's not the venue or situation that matters, but how that person reacts and makes choices in such situations.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Couldn't say it better!
The thing is that there are flirty men/women everywhere you go, at your work-place, at the coffee bar ... let alone in a nightclub.
So, the problem is the spouse who doesn't know how to keep the distance and respect the boundaries that he/she have put together with the other spouse. 
Outsiders are there to "ruin" your marriage/relationship. You are the one who should tell them to back off.


----------



## jnj express

There are gonna be PUA, everywhere----even what one might consider the safest places---but your spouse is not "out and out", putting themselves in harms way, as in going to a bar, where there is drinking, dancing, even drugs, everywhere.

Why do people go to meatmarkets---to hook-up---only reason---sure there are those that go to unwind and have one or two drinks, and go home---but that isn't a GNO--IS IT?????---the GNO--is later on, when the PUA, are in full sway----

you trust your wife, if there have been no problems---but you know da*n well---mix a little alcohol, maybe some drugs---do a little bump and grind on the dance floor---get some attention---and believe me---the PUA, who are there---KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING-----and tho your spouse may have the strongest resolve---the lines all get blurred----guess what---BINGO----Nuclear Winter---family destroyed---kids lives wrecked----Do not tell me it doesn't happen---cuz you all know it does, and these forums are full of mge's destroyed by ONS's, or meet-ups with a guy---under the guise of a GNO

I know my wife---goes out to dinner, with her friends, after going to the race track, and when she is staying over---and there is a bar at the restaurant---and there are PUA---everywhere---and I wonder---but as many of you have said---you can't lock your spouse up, and you have to trust them

Your relationship will determine, your spouse's attitude when they go to a bar----and you can only hope that the boundaries hold, after the alcohol starts flowing----but these kinds of events are maybe 3 or 4 times a year, and they are never at the same place---so she would never see the same PUA.

If your wife---is doing this on a regular basis---at a bar, dance joint---then you need to draw your line in the sand---married spouses do not do this kind of thing---they have obligations to their family, and carousing around in meatmarkets---is way out of line!!!!!!!!


----------



## NextTimeAround

Some thoughts on going out:

1. My exH is a management consultant and I understood how important networking was. sometimes I went with him to Friday night happy hours and sometimes not. The first time he came home with not a whiff of alcohol on his breath, that's when I knew I had a problem.

2. I'm not sure what's meant by dressing up. It's quite often that I wear casual skirts and dresses anyway. So my going to a bar or a pub or a dance bar, I probably would not be dressed any differently.

3. Here in London, when groups have activities, to see a film, hear a lecture whatever, the group usually repairs to a pub. So if someone sees those as meat markets, well, so be it.

4. As far as receiving free drinks from men,there's an interesting irony that I have experienced. both from my exH who liked buying rounds for other people and I guess he assumed that since he was buying rounds for other men's partners that some guy in the group would take up the slack and buy a drink for me. Didn't always happen that way.

And in the early days with my bf, he neglected to offer to buy me a drink at a key moment -- as I was introducing him to my friends. But then a couple weeks later, as we went to see a film and then to the pub afterwards --he was late actually, another guy bought me a drink and he actually got upset about it. Oh well.

5. My opinion about BNOs and GNOs in general, in principle they're ok. But like everything else, trust your gut. but they better damned sure make it home that night.


----------



## NextTimeAround

jnj express said:


> Nothing wrong with GNO---but---why does it have to be to a meat market
> 
> *Why can't it be dinner and the movies, why can't it be a race track, or a casino----or a sporting event----or a card party, or dinner, and an art exhibit, or musical event---or a play*
> 
> Nothing wrong with going out---but you can cut out, most of the problems, if you strongly suggest no meat market
> 
> There are so many legit. things to do, that do not encompass---having men hit on your wife----if your wife is repeatedly going to GNO, that is a meat market---then yes you should put in a very strong complaint---cuz she is putting her self in harm's way---and if something happens, and these women do not have each other's back----your life will never be the same---that is if you are even able to find out!!!!!!


Those look like meat markets to me. Heck, the dating guides reassure that we could meet our soulmate at the grocery store while squeezing melons.

How short of a leash do you want to put on your partner?


----------



## MrK

I love it when someone throws up the supermarket analogy.

The purpose of a grocery store is to put on your sweats and buy food. The purpose of a meat market is to dress like a s.l.u.t and party with the boys. The REASON you go is to hook-up.

BIG difference.


----------



## Grayson

MrK said:


> I love it when someone throws up the supermarket analogy.
> 
> The purpose of a grocery store is to put on your sweats and buy food.


I just learned something new. I need to stop going to the grocery store. I don't own any sweats, so I can't fulfill half of its purpose.



> The purpose of a meat market is to dress like a s.l.u.t and party with the boys. The REASON you go is to hook-up.


But what, exactly, determines a "meat market?" Is ANY bar or any other location where alcohol is the primary beverage of choice a "meat market" by default?

Let's look at a situation like my own as an illustration. I don't drink alcohol. By extension, I don't like being surrounded by drunk people. I find it both annoying and boring. The natural progression of these traits is that I don't go to bars. My wife, on the other hand, does drink. If she goes out with friends to a bar to do so, is she automatically going to a "meat market" to hook up?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hope1964

Grayson said:


> If she goes out with friends to a bar to do so, is she automatically going to a "meat market" to hook up?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, does she also dress like a **** and throw herself at guys?

We go round and round with this discussion every time we have it. There's no consensus - every couple has to do what THEY are comfortable with. Just because someone goes on GNO a lot doesn't mean they're cheating. Cheating CAN happen everywhere, it's true. You can live in your mothers basement and look like Jabba the Hut and still cheat (assuming you HAVE an SO). We each bring our own experiences to it and act accordingly.

I sincerely hope that jealoushubby's wife is just going out to have fun and nothing more, and that his jealousy is misplaced.


----------



## Grayson

Hope1964 said:


> Well, does she also dress like a **** and throw herself at guys?


Not being there, I can only go by second-hand information, but....

We might also need to define "dressing like a sl*t." She'll sometimes dress for the occasion...better than, say, business casual, but I wouldn't call it "sl*tty." And, would we consider accepting the occasional offered drink cuz we're cheap to be "throwing herself at guys?"



> We go round and round with this discussion every time we have it. There's no consensus - every couple has to do what THEY are comfortable with. Just because someone goes on GNO a lot doesn't mean they're cheating. Cheating CAN happen everywhere, it's true. You can live in your mothers basement and look like Jabba the Hut and still cheat (assuming you HAVE an SO). We each bring our own experiences to it and act accordingly.


Kinda my point. The contention was made that the only reason to go to a "meat market" is to hook up. My example was one being used to hopefully get on the same page as that poster as to what, exactly, constitutes a "meat market," because if we consider ALL bars to fit that description, there are, indeed, other reasons to go there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 381917

She shouldn't go if it makes you uncomfortable. She has no real need to have nights out at bars with her girlfriends. The two of you can go out together instead. But I don't think that what you're describing sounds suspicious in and of itself. Lots of people get hornier when they drink. As long as she's focusing that on you, I don't see the problem. 




MrK said:


> I love it when someone throws up the supermarket analogy.
> 
> The purpose of a grocery store is to put on your sweats and buy food. The purpose of a meat market is to dress like a s.l.u.t and party with the boys. The REASON you go is to hook-up.
> 
> BIG difference.


This is ridiculous. The only times (prob less than a dozen in 6 years) I've went to bars without my husband, I went with people like my mother, aunt, sister, HIS sisters, cousins, etc. I was definitely _not_ there to hook up. I don't think they were either. We were there to hang out and dance, not meet men. Honestly, I was dressed up (not what I'd call slu##y, but that's a very subjective term) because I didn't want to see women looking better than me there. I never wear sweats anywhere. I get hit on a lot at the grocery store.


----------



## Entropy3000

Hicks said:


> Your problem is you ask your wife why she gets dressed up.
> Of course women get dressed up to attract males. This is biology. Does that mean she wants to cheat? Not at all.
> 
> GNO's, flirting, etc... The mistake you will make is debating it with her. In many marriages, this could be just a bit of fun for the wife, and similar to reading a book. But in others it could be the slippery slope to cheating... But you have to decide what YOUR policy is and then own it. For example, if you like the way she comes home you own it that you are allowing this to happen and have done your own risk / reward analysis that green lights it.... If you don't wan't her to do it you have the undebatble policy that is must stop.


Wow. This is the absolute truth about all this type of stuff.


----------



## Entropy3000

JuliaP said:


> We like to look hot because men look at us and we get affirmation that we are hot. If you have a good relationship then this will work in your favor. When we feel hot- we get horny.


What are the limits to this?


----------



## heartsbeating

I haven't read the whole thread and this post might end up completely meaningless. I take pride in how I look - with or without hubs. Now to me, taking pride doesn't mean short skirts and such. It can simply mean, make up done nicely, hair looking good, and whatever clothes put together well. 

When I meet up with girlfriends for dinner, I'm usually wearing fitted jeans, nice top/jacket (I'm all about the feel of material)... and a killer pair of shoes. The shoes are for my friend's benefit. It's true. One particular girl is shoe crazy and loves checking out which shoes I'm wearing. It's a joke between us. Sometimes we eat at nice places in the city, other times they're casual "dive bar" style. We're only ever in each others' company. We're pretty oblivious to anyone else to be honest. I met with my shoe-crazy-friend last week for dinner. She chose the venue and she gets my style. Which means it wasn't flash but the food was good. It was comfortable, easy, her and I, and a bottle of wine. That night I had to walk a fair bit and decided to go casual - wore sneakers. 

Out with H, is when I'd break out the pencil skirts with high heels. My friends don't care what I look like. Sometimes they're dressed up, sometimes super casual. Whatever goes. Nothing wrong with getting dolled up and feeling good though. As for attention...it's not always what you wear, it's how you wear it.


----------



## heartsbeating

Entropy3000 said:


> Just to take this one step past absurd, maybe two, is it ok for the ladies to enter the wet t-shirt contest? I have no doubt some guys in here would expound on how proud they would be about that. LOL. But is there a limit to the exposure? I mean this is not cheating so its all good. Right?
> 
> Thoughts?


wth?!


----------



## Entropy3000

heartsbeating said:


> wth?!


I am trying to find out where the limits are? 

How sparse does clothing have to get before it is too much exposure? How much male attention is too much attention? It was also stated that venue did not matter.

I absolutely understand ladies dressing up and looking good. But that means different things to different people.


----------



## Entropy3000

heartsbeating said:


> I haven't read the whole thread and this post might end up completely meaningless. I take pride in how I look - with or without hubs. Now to me, taking pride doesn't mean short skirts and such. It can simply mean, make up done nicely, hair looking good, and whatever clothes put together well.
> 
> When I meet up with girlfriends for dinner, I'm usually wearing fitted jeans, nice top/jacket (I'm all about the feel of material)... and a killer pair of shoes. The shoes are for my friend's benefit. It's true. One particular girl is shoe crazy and loves checking out which shoes I'm wearing. It's a joke between us. Sometimes we eat at nice places in the city, other times they're casual "dive bar" style. We're only ever in each others' company. We're pretty oblivious to anyone else to be honest. I met with my shoe-crazy-friend last week for dinner. She chose the venue and she gets my style. Which means it wasn't flash but the food was good. It was comfortable, easy, her and I, and a bottle of wine. That night I had to walk a fair bit and decided to go casual - wore sneakers.
> 
> Out with H, is when I'd break out the pencil skirts with high heels. My friends don't care what I look like. Sometimes they're dressed up, sometimes super casual. Whatever goes. Nothing wrong with getting dolled up and feeling good though. As for attention...it's not always what you wear, it's how you wear it.


This is essentailly how my wife is. She dresses well and looks great. She ups the level when she goes out with me and I appreciate that. 

I don't mind saying I like this much better than the reverse. If she dressed very hot for the GNO and then backed off the hotness for me I would feel very weird about it.


----------



## heartsbeating

jealoushubby said:


> Looking for some perspective here. When my wife goes out with her other married female friends for dinner and/or drinks she usually gets dresses up and looks pretty damn hot. She says its only for her friends and that women are different like that and basically dress up for each other and not to impress guys at the bar. Is this normally true ladies? I gotta believe part of it is wanting to get hit on by guys but she denies it.


Sorry if I missed this, but do you still date her?

Does she have the chance to dress up with you and enjoy margaritas in your company?


----------



## jealoushubby

Yes she is my wife. We do go out together too but we also need our friend time. It has thankfully been improving!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Blue Moon

I go out and party with the fellas, so I don't mind my wife going out with the girls. I take trips to Atlantic City with the boys, and she's taken a trip to Miami with her sister and girlfriends.

Wouldn't change a thing.


----------



## Santa

jealoushubby said:


> I know she gets more expressive and *definately hornier when she drinks*. Help!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Consider yourself lucky!! Mine drinks everyday and gets mean as hell and wants to go over every preceived wrong in her life or our marriage....


----------



## Entropy3000

Santa said:


> Consider yourself lucky!! Mine drinks everyday and gets mean as hell and wants to go over every preceived wrong in her life or our marriage....


Yeah but your situation is over the top. No offense. Some folks do not let things get so out of hand.


----------



## Entropy3000

Blue Moon said:


> I go out and party with the fellas, so I don't mind my wife going out with the girls. I take trips to Atlantic City with the boys, and she's taken a trip to Miami with her sister and girlfriends.
> 
> Wouldn't change a thing.


I think the important take away here is that this is something your wife and you have agreed to.

Truth be told my wife and I do this as well to some degree. But there is nothing she does that I am uncomfortable with. If there was I would not hesitate to speak up. I would not keep it buried and sulk or feel I was being overly jealous.


----------



## LOSTfan

Yeesh, from some of the men here it sounds like they have boundaries thatg are a little over the top. Some in here have said what is the point of gno, why not have that fun with their h? So let me get this straight, no pint in gno, and I'm assuming you don't want her having male friends... is she supposed to only ever go out and about with you? No friends at all? Sheesh
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sinnister

LOSTfan said:


> Yeesh, from some of the men here it sounds like they have boundaries thatg are a little over the top. Some in here have said what is the point of gno, why not have that fun with their h? So let me get this straight, no pint in gno, and I'm assuming you don't want her having male friends... is she supposed to only ever go out and about with you? No friends at all? Sheesh
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm not going to speak for the other because I don't know their motivation. But in my particular case I believe there is no reason to be hanging out with men at a bar drinking. You can chill with your girls and have a glass or two...but why oh why does it have to be at a meat market? You are a guy. You know full well what guys at bars are thinking about the cute married chicks at the corner table laughing and giggling all night. *Which one of these lovelies am I going to score with tonight*

You're saying you have no problem with this? Yes our wives are grown women capable of making their own decisions. But my male instinct to protect my family kicks in and just would rather avoid the preying sleazebags all together.


----------



## vodkaplease

She's being truthful, women really do just dress up for each other. Our culture socializes us to be competitive with one another, and pop culture also emphasizes that we need to be "hot" to be worthwhile human beings.

So, we dress hot to one-up each other and feel good about ourselves. The free drinks are mostly just a bonus.


----------



## that_girl

I really need a girls night out. Karaoke and beer.  Too bad my besties are all in different states.

But it would not be anything fancy. My fave place is a dive bar with ugly bikers and trashy old women LOL! But the beer is cold and cheap and the karaoke is fun!


----------



## MrK

vodkaplease said:


> So, we dress hot to one-up each other and feel good about ourselves. The free drinks are mostly just a bonus.


And what is usually involved in getting free drinks? You MUST know that you have NEVER been bought a drink by a man that didn't want to screw you. You seem to be OK with that. Is your husband?

I DO NOT UNDERSTAND why there are people that will not admit that nightclubs are a very dangerous place for women to be when they are married. Even women with the PUREST of intentions have "drunken mistakes".

Why won't you all admit that?


----------



## that_girl

Maybe they have strong boundaries.

I don't know. 

I got a free drink once. From an old man at the bar. :rofl: Yea....it was hard to say no.


----------



## MrK

that_girl said:


> I really need a girls night out. Karaoke and beer.  Too bad my besties are all in different states.
> 
> But it would not be anything fancy. My fave place is a dive bar with ugly bikers and trashy old women LOL! But the beer is cold and cheap and the karaoke is fun!


And every man there wants to bang you. Many make an attempt to do so, right? And drunken mistakes happen. 

I personally do not want my wife hanging out in places that exist to facilitate casual sex between the sexes. I just don't want it.


----------



## The Middleman

jealoushubby said:


> Looking for some perspective here. When my wife goes out with her other married female friends for dinner and/or drinks she usually gets dresses up and looks pretty damn hot. She says its only for her friends and that women are different like that and basically dress up for each other and not to impress guys at the bar. Is this normally true ladies? I gotta believe part of it is wanting to get hit on by guys but she denies it.


I haven't read any of the other posts so forgive any redundancy. First of all, being a jealous husband isn't bad, as long as your not OCD about it. I'm OK with Girls Night Out with my wife and she goes out from time to time with friends from work and the neighborhood. It's only fair for me to accept it because I have to go to business dinners often. My wife dresses nicely but not what I would call HOT, but I'm sure we are older than you guys are. If your uncomfortable with the way she dresses, then ask her nicely to "tone it down". If she respects your relationship I'm sure she will comply. If not, then you will have to take a stronger position. 

Now a days I do something from time to time, that most men don't/won't do: Every once in a while, I check in on her; to see if she is where she says she would be and with whom. Most of the times I do it discreetly where where she doesn't know that I am there. Twice, I actually walked in on her group and said I thought I'd stop in and introduce my self to her friends; one of the times I stayed for dinner (and picked up the tab). You said that she get's horney when she drinks? In that case, I'd start checking up on her personally if I were you. I never did that in the past but we had an "incident" about 2 years ago that made me take this habit up. My story is here:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...ition-anyway-did-i-over-react.html#post726990



jealoushubby said:


> My 2nd question is what are other married peoples opinion on flirting. What I mean is if the wife is out and fllirts a little with a cute bartender or their group accepts a free drink or 2 from a group of guys who know they are married. Should that be ok if she comes home tipsy and a bit horny? Part of me wants to just stop overthinking it and just enjoy the hot sex that follows but the jealous guy in me always wants to know every detail. I am confident she has never cheated on me and never would but her being hit on and possibly flirting back bothers me some. Especially if she is drinking bc I know she gets more expressive and definately hornier when she drinks. Help!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Let me be clear about this: 

_*There is no place for flirting with the opposite sex, for any reason what so ever, in a committed relationship.*_

Now having said that, if you are uncomfortable with the flirting you need to have a heart to heart talk with her about boundaries and respecting them. To me this is a deal breaker! When you combine the flirting with the "Horney Drunk" aspect of your story I can picture her getting banged (sorry for the bluntness) by some low life lounge lizard in the not to distant future. Just Sayin'.


----------



## that_girl

MrK said:


> And every man there wants to bang you. Many make an attempt to do so, right? And drunken mistakes happen.
> 
> I personally do not want my wife hanging out in places that exist to facilitate casual sex between the sexes. I just don't want it.


:rofl: If they want to bang me, they don't show it. I don't talk to them. And drunken mistakes!? :rofl: I'm 36 years old and never had a DRUNKEN MISTAKE. I was drunk many times and chose what I was doing. I don't get drunk on GNO. I have ONE beer. I'm driving! And drinks are expensive out! I'd rather drink at home with Hubs...Holy crap. Just because I have breasts and a vagina doesn't mean I need to stay in the house and cover myself in a sheet when I go out.

Godam. Control issues? I think you have them! You also don't trust your wife. We cannot control the minds of strangers. We only can control ourselves. Sucks to be her, though, with your lack of trust and major control issues.


----------



## Acorn

At least from my perspective, GNO at a bar is like voluntarily driving in an ice storm when you could go to countless other destinations and not have to deal with the conditions. 

I can trust my wife's driving completely and still ask her not to drive in the ice if she can help it.


----------



## that_girl

Well, karaoke dive bars...where there is maybe 5 people inside and we can smoke and chill. Hubs goes with me all the time...I go with my girls when they visit. We LOVE karaoke. Can't do that at a coffee house around here.

Hardly a "bar" like you are imagining. I'm not a drinker when not with Hubs, so it's a moot point.


----------



## MrK

that_girl said:


> I'm 36 years old and never had a DRUNKEN MISTAKE.


STOP THE PRESSES!! That Girl has never sucked face with a stranger at a meat market. Thereby PROVING it really DOESN'T ever happen. So when my wife was clubbing until 3AM twice a month with her soon to be divorces wingwoman, she REALLY never did behave inappropriately. I wonder why she was always so vague and secretive about those night then. Wow. Now I feel kind of bad for questioning her on it. And NO WONDER she accused me of interrogating her after any question beyond "did you have fun".

I wonder why all of those other posters who claim they HAVE done it would lie. I KNOW why the men who claim to regularly bed married women they meet at bars would lie. Ego boost.

Thanks That Girl. I'm going to apologize to my wife profusely, buy her a brand new s.l.u.t.t.y outfit, and beg her to hang out at meat markets again.

I feel like SUCH a controlling fool. And to think, my marriage almost ended over it.


----------



## Acorn

^^^ Is this really necessary?


----------



## MrK

Yes. Anyone who tells me GNO's can never be toxic to a marriage needs to hear it.


----------



## NextTimeAround

MrK said:


> Yes. Anyone who tells me GNO's can never be toxic to a marriage needs to hear it.


I agree with you, they can be. In fact, I've seen somewhere on TAM, a poster advising another that if the WW wanted an R, she would have the drop the GNOs. I agree. She might be going to a GNO, or she might be meeting her lover. You just never know.


----------



## that_girl

What are you talking about? I have never had a DRUNKEN MISTAKE. MEANING===I have always known what I was doing. Being drunk is a STUPID EXCUSE used to place blame. "Oh, I was drunk." No...I never had DRUNKEN MISTAKES. I own my choices.

So, your wife CHOSE to cheat on you, drunk or not. She didn't fall on a penis while drunk.

When I go out with my friends (the couple times a year), we go out, act silly, and we're home before midnight.

So...sorry you're so upset and triggered by my post, but not all women are like your wife. I don't go out looking for trouble. I used to though...before marriage. Again, never made the mistake of sex when drunk. I chose it...or I didn't.


----------



## lovelygirl

OP, regarding your wife telling you she dresses up for the girls THAT IS A TOTAL LIE!
Women never dress up for their girl-friends. It doesn't make sense .


----------



## that_girl

So what do you wear when you go out? Sweats and a ratty teeshirt?


----------



## NextTimeAround

that_girl said:


> So what do you wear when you go out? Sweats and a ratty teeshirt?


With my women friends, yes, unless we're going to a pub and then I make sure my hair looks ok.

I don't know where that women dress up for other women stuff come from. I don't dress up for other women.

I amke a point of looking nice when I am with my fiance.


----------



## lovelygirl

that_girl said:


> So what do you wear when you go out? Sweats and a ratty teeshirt?


You didn't get my point. I didn't say women dress like granny. I said the *reason why *they dress up is NOT for other women. It's simply for the *men*.


----------



## that_girl

Not true, again.

I like to look nice. Not slvtty, not trashy, but nice. I do that for me. Not men. Not all women who dress up are doing it for the men. Some are, some aren't.


----------



## vodkaplease

No crap they all want to bang me, I'm young and hot. All of the men in the library, at church, and at the grocery store also all want to bang me.

My husband is also hot, and all the ladies wanna do him. It's part of us being sexy, we can't help it. 

And yes, my husband knows I usually drink for free. We're broke so he doesn't care too much. He knows he's always invited to come with if he wants to, he just doesn't really like the dive bars I like. 

Men generally back off when I tell them I'm married. If they don't, well, that's why I keep my ***** hand strong fools! I've punched guys in the face at bars before. The result is usually the bouncer coming over to drag the dude I punched in the face out of the bar.

Wow, you remind me why I think my husband is so awesome.


----------



## that_girl

:rofl: I wouldn't want to bang your husband, but your reply--serious or not---was awesome.


----------



## The Middleman

lovelygirl said:


> You didn't get my point. I didn't say women dress like granny. I said the *reason why *they dress up is NOT for other women. It's simply for the *men*.





that_girl said:


> Not true, again.
> I like to look nice. Not slvtty, not trashy, but nice. I do that for me. Not men. Not all women who dress up are doing it for the men. Some are, some aren't.


I think the larger question is: If our OP is not comfortable with the way is wife is dressing when she goes out GNO, especially considering he's not going to be there, should the OP's wife take that into consideration and "tone it down"? Should he say something?

My answer is yes to both, but what do i know. :scratchhead:


----------



## that_girl

The Middleman said:


> I think the larger question is: If our OP is not comfortable with the way is wife is dressing when she goes out GNO, especially considering he's not going to be there, should the OP's wife take that into consideration and "tone it down"? Should he say something?
> 
> My answer is yes to both, but what do i know. :scratchhead:


Oh yea, if my husband said something about what I was wearing, then I'd listen. But I'm not a slvt and don't like looking like one either....he knows this.

What do you do now? I dunno....take her shopping for some hot clothes you approve of for GNO? There's hot and there's slvtty. However, if your wife is going to cheat, she'll do it in sweats. Doesn't matter.


----------



## vodkaplease

I agree with That Girl! I really do dress up hot for my girlfriends and for myself. I dress up no matter where I'm going-I love fashion and it's just part of who I am. 
However I really dress to thrill when I go out on a date with my husband. He loves it when I wear hooker boots and fishnets for him, and I think he likes showing me off. He even requests certain outfits when we go to his hometown so he can show all the dbags from high school how hot his wife is.


----------



## that_girl

Yea...my 'eff me boots' and red hooker heels are only for dates with him.


----------



## MrK

vodkaplease said:


> All of the men in the library, at church, and at the grocery store also all want to bang me.


WOW! I have NEVER seen a chick in a minidress grinding her crotch into a strange man's thigh at church or the library. I need to move to your town.

OK. I'll admit that some women go to meat markets to dance in a man-free bubble. Why can't you women admit that A LOT of bad s.h.i.t goes down at these places? I swear, we won't tell your husbands they aren't the equivalent of a middle school dance. Why can't you be HONEST about it? Why can't yo admit that A LOT of women behave in ways they WOULD NOT want their husbands to witness. And they continue to do it because gals like you continue singing the chorus that it'a ALL innocent.

Why can't you admit that?


----------



## vodkaplease

Amen sister!


----------



## The Middleman

that_girl said:


> What do you do now? I dunno....take her shopping for some hot clothes you approve of for GNO? There's hot and there's slvtty. However, if your wife is going to cheat, she'll do it in sweats. Doesn't matter.


Take her shopping? That's too cruel ... I'll take my chances.

Seriously, my wife has almost always been a conservative dresser and the only time she gone out dressed "over the top" was at my request and when she was with me. I really don't think she would dress in a fashion that would make me uncomfortable and would respect my wishes if I asked her to "tone it down". 

In the end, I think it's all about the OP's wife having enough respect for her husband to understand when her attire is making him uncomfortable and respect his wishes, after all, she's not single any more. Conversely, he should be reasonable in his expectations (and he seemed to be). One hand washes the other.

And your right, if she was going to cheat, it really doesn't matter what she wears, but that's another story.


----------



## that_girl

I can't admit it because I haven't go to those types of places in almost 20 years. When I did go with friends, we were all single. Sure, things like that happened with them, but we were single. Who cares.



> WOW! I have NEVER seen a chick in a minidress grinding her crotch into a strange man's thigh at church or the library.


If your wife or gf is doing this, well, she's not honorable and has NO respect for you or your relationship.

You should come to one of my GNOs. You'd see a couple chicks sitting there, lookin cute, in their own little bubble, singing karaoke like fools and laughing a LOT. We also bring up our husbands *if* men try to talk to us. With smiles.

"Hey, how are you tonight?"
"I'm awesome...I married a wonderful man...how are you?"

They get the message.

But if your spouse or SO can't respect you enough to not grind on other men, then to hell with her. THAT is not GNO. That's "ima a hoochie and I need my girls around me while I hooch."


----------



## that_girl

But I've never been one to like those types of dances. I would dance with my girls, but not with strange guys. Sick.

If I felt the need to go rub all over some guy's leg with my crotch, I'd HIGHLY question my commitment to my marriage.

But not all GNO are wicked like this. I assure you, plenty are just women getting together.


----------



## that_girl

Plus, those places are just places. YOUR SO decided to cheat. She drove there, dressed that way, and danced that way by choice. 

I'll admit that.

But I won't blame GNO. She just used that as an excuse to be a cheater.


----------



## Grayson

MrK said:


> Yes. Anyone who tells me GNO's can never be toxic to a marriage needs to hear it.


No one can any more say that it will NEVER be toxic to a relationship than you can realistically say that it will ALWAYS be toxic to a relationship.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Grayson

MrK said:


> And what is usually involved in getting free drinks? You MUST know that you have NEVER been bought a drink by a man that didn't want to screw you. You seem to be OK with that. Is your husband?


News flash: People are everywhere, not just at "meat markets" (which, by the way, I'm still waiting to see defined...is it ANYplace with a large percentage of alcohol sales?). So, anywhere your wife goes, she may be approached by a "man who wants to screw her." You can't police the thoughts of others. Simply avoiding certain establishments will not magically make her undesirable. The most important factor is her response.



> I DO NOT UNDERSTAND why there are people that will not admit that nightclubs are a very dangerous place for women to be when they are married. Even women with the PUREST of intentions have "drunken mistakes".
> 
> Why won't you all admit that?


Because we disagree. While such environments might present challenges, your assumptions that all women who go out drinking with friends are prowling to cheat and/or find themselves helpless in the face of men's advances is both disingenuous and a bit insulting.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Entropy3000

LOSTfan said:


> Yeesh, from some of the men here it sounds like they have boundaries thatg are a little over the top. Some in here have said what is the point of gno, why not have that fun with their h? So let me get this straight, no pint in gno, and I'm assuming you don't want her having male friends... is she supposed to only ever go out and about with you? No friends at all? Sheesh
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Marriage friendly GNOs. Girls Night Out involving her femlae friends. No drunken escapades with other men. 

No dating other men.

I guess this is tough for some wives.


----------



## Entropy3000

vodkaplease said:


> She's being truthful, women really do just dress up for each other. Our culture socializes us to be competitive with one another, and pop culture also emphasizes that we need to be "hot" to be worthwhile human beings.
> 
> So, we dress hot to one-up each other and feel good about ourselves. The free drinks are mostly just a bonus.


A woman of real value would not bow to this crapola. You are rationalizing low class behavior on some vague notion that you are powerless to act because someone named Pop Culture says you have to.

If you are too poor to buy your own drinks you are too poor to be there to begin with. Being a "by me drinkie girl" getting attention from a guy buying you drinks is pathetic at best. You are selling yourself to get a drink. Please have some self respect.

I hope you are just very very young.

And if you need further incentive to clean up your act read this post :

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/49256-lost-confused-bored-lonely.html

This is what we are talking about. You are very lonely and not getting attention at home so you go seeking attention from other men. Is your husband really ok with this?


----------



## Entropy3000

LOSTfan said:


> Yeesh, from some of the men here it sounds like they have boundaries thatg are a little over the top. Some in here have said what is the point of gno, why not have that fun with their h? So let me get this straight, no pint in gno, and I'm assuming you don't want her having male friends... is she supposed to only ever go out and about with you? No friends at all? Sheesh
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Check this thread out.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...ays-i-have-become-smothering-controlling.html


----------



## Entropy3000

vodkaplease said:


> No crap they all want to bang me, I'm young and hot. All of the men in the library, at church, and at the grocery store also all want to bang me.
> 
> My husband is also hot, and all the ladies wanna do him. It's part of us being sexy, we can't help it.
> 
> And yes, my husband knows I usually drink for free. We're broke so he doesn't care too much. He knows he's always invited to come with if he wants to, he just doesn't really like the dive bars I like.
> 
> Men generally back off when I tell them I'm married. If they don't, well, that's why I keep my ***** hand strong fools! I've punched guys in the face at bars before. The result is usually the bouncer coming over to drag the dude I punched in the face out of the bar.
> 
> Wow, you remind me why I think my husband is so awesome.


How many guys have you had to punch out at the library, church or the grocery store for feeling you up and not taking no for an answer? Rhetorical question. If you have to do that there too you are putting out the vibe.

If you husband is all for you playing these games then go for it. Your husband will just have to learn the hard way. Maybe he will post here.

But ultimately whether you cross any boundaries or not for many men their wives doing this stuff is flat disrespectful whether you cheat or not. Putting yourself out their to play this game with men at all is crossing a boundary for many.


----------



## that_girl

So I can't go out and look hot? :rofl: No problem with that today....still in jammies.

But...I am ALWAYS broke lately. I drink water. I just wanna SING! I do tip the bartender though because it's only polite.


----------



## Acorn

Grayson said:


> While such environments might present challenges, your assumptions that all women who go out drinking with friends are prowling to cheat and/or find themselves helpless in the face of men's advances is both disingenuous and a bit insulting.


I dunno... when I have to work late with my female coworker, I insist that we work at a restaurant or some other place at my wife's request. I do this as a courtesy to my wife, not because I'm helpless to her advances.

My thing has always been GNO at a bar. Anywhere else but a bar, lol. Her friends go out once a month, each month to a new place. When it is a bar, she skips it out of respect for me.

The best part is, when my work is over, I call her and we eat out at the restaurant together. When GNO is at a bar, we get an extra date night. Turns a potential negative into a huge positive!

Works for us. At some point it has a lot less to do with the odds of cheating and a lot more to do with simple respect for a spouse.


----------



## Caribbean Man

I work with mostly women.
I have been to and seen these " Girls night Out " parties in clubs and sport bars....
Not " marriage friendly " at all....
The last one I attended was an " after work lime." to celebrate a MARRIED WOMAN'S birthday. She was a supervisor with a company we do business with. I know her husband,he was not there.[ He is a techie who handles our systems] Another man was there.[ OM] she got so drunk that she couldn't walk.
Her " FRIENDS " let OM take her home. 
Today she has a child for OM, serious marital problems, [ OM is a different race to husband] , and she lost her job.
All her " FRIENDS" are still employed with the company, and enjoying their lives.


----------



## Grayson

Acorn said:


> I dunno... when I have to work late with my female coworker, I insist that we work at a restaurant or some other place at my wife's request. I do this as a courtesy to my wife, not because I'm helpless to her advances.


And that's fine. I don't think anyone has suggested otherwise.



> My thing has always been GNO at a bar. Anywhere else but a bar, lol. Her friends go out once a month, each month to a new place. When it is a bar, she skips it out of respect for me.
> 
> The best part is, when my work is over, I call her and we eat out at the restaurant together. When GNO is at a bar, we get an extra date night. Turns a potential negative into a huge positive!


Here's a wrinkle that applies to us, though. I can't stand alcohol. At all. Can't stand the taste of it. My wife, however, enjoys alcohol from time to time. She's partial to mixed drinks. So, she occasionally goes out with her friends for drinks. Even when invited, I don't go, because rooms full of drunk people just annoy the ever-living hell out of me.



> Works for us. At some point it has a lot less to do with the odds of cheating and a lot more to do with simple respect for a spouse.


And that's great. For us, it's also about respect, just from a different perspective. She's an adult, so I'm not going to wag my finger and say, "I don't like alcohol, so you can't drink."

Full disclosure...she *has *cheated on me, and we've managed to rebuild. But, that cheating was done when stone cold sober, with someone she knew, not a stranger met at a club.


----------



## lovelygirl

that_girl said:


> Not true, again.
> 
> I like to look nice. Not slvtty, not trashy, but nice. I do that for me. Not men. Not all women who dress up are doing it for the men. Some are, some aren't.


Nobody was talking about dressing like a sl*t. 
The OP's wife was simply lying when she said she dresses up for her girl-friends. [whether she dresses like sl*t or nice that is a different point, unrelated to what I was trying to say].
The whole point is that no girl dresses up for the other girls at the bar [unless the girl is a lesbian].


----------



## lovelygirl

Entropy3000 said:


> A woman of real value would not bow to this crapola. You are rationalizing low class behavior on some vague notion that you are powerless to act because someone named Pop Culture says you have to.
> 
> If you are too poor to buy your own drinks you are too poor to be there to begin with. Being a "by me drinkie girl" getting attention from a guy buying you drinks is pathetic at best. You are selling yourself to get a drink. Please have some self respect.
> 
> I hope you are just very very young.
> 
> And if you need further incentive to clean up your act read this post :
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/49256-lost-confused-bored-lonely.html
> 
> This is what we are talking about. You are very lonely and not getting attention at home so you go seeking attention from other men. Is your husband really ok with this?


Exactly. If you are poor then why go to bars in the first place?
Sounds like you want to show off how hot you are by going to places to get attention which is not enough if you get it only from your husband.


----------



## hunter411

Yeah, girls night out doesnt cause any problems whatsoever. Thats why Im here on TAM at 3am, in the middle of a divorce, and my stbxw is gone after 11 years of the "perfect marriage". Absolutely, continue without any care in the world. Nothing bad can or will happen.


----------



## vodkaplease

Meh, eff it, I give up. You're telling me I have bad self esteem 'cuz I take free drinks from men? 

I have to say, when I review the posts from the people who are criticizing my husband and I and how we do stuff, I realize how healthy our relationship is. Particularly considering how young we were when we married and how young we are now. We might have some communication issues, but we both know the difference between taking a drink from a stranger and falling into bed with a stranger and blaming it on being drunk. We both take full responsibility for everything we do, and we're honest with each other about it.

Yes, we sometimes get jealous, and we each sometimes do stupid stuff, but that stupid stuff has always stopped at flirting. Then, we go home and tell each other about the guy or girl who hit on us today. We both laugh about it, tease the other for being "too sexy," then play Phase 10 and F***, which is exactly why I wasn't posting anything in response to this ridiculousness for the past few hours. 

I think I'm not going to post anything and will only read the crap you guys post about your pathetic excuses for marriage from now on. I feel sorry for your children.


----------



## vodkaplease

lovelygirl said:


> Exactly. If you are poor then why go to bars in the first place?
> Sounds like you want to show off how hot you are by going to places to get attention which is not enough if you get it only from your husband.


BTW, what you're judging me for is particularly ironic considering your profile pic of half your face and your anglo-centric standard of beauty--bleached blonde hair and "hot bod." Who's really looking for attention?


----------



## MrK

vodkaplease said:


> I feel sorry for your children.


But if I had a wife who liked to w.h.o.r.e around at meat markets until 3AM every Saturday night, they'd be much better off, I guess.

:scratchhead:


----------



## MrK

And one last chance to get an HONEST answer from these gals (and the few cuckold guys) that say I am controlling for not wanting my wife to s.l.u.t around at hook-up joints all weekend.

What if a brand new member of this site finally got up the nerve to post his story. He talks about the hell he goes through every other Saturday night when it's her time for alone time. He'll be home with the kids while she goes out partying at the bars until 3AM

She gets dressed up. Not s.l.u.t.t.y, but pretty hot looking. Goes out to the bars with that same friend from work. Every time it's just the two of them. Sure there are horny men, but she NEVER would act inappropriately with them. She tells him she would NEVER party with any strange men. Sure, the occasional dance. Of course she'll accept a free drink or two, who wouldn't? But it NEVER goes beyond ANYTHING he would have a problem with. Details are vague, but hey, like Vodka and That girl say, I'd just be controlling to press for details. 

He tries to let her have her fun, but just the fact that, of ALL OF THE PLACES she could go for her alone time, it's ALWAYS at places known for members of the opposite sex hooking up. Of course I want to trust my wife, but it's always meat markets they go to. I hate it, but I've got to show her I trust her so I let her go.

OK. If I leave it at that, you'd probably say "Yes, K, you ARE a paranoid little freak. I hope your kids don't end up with serious mental issues". But replace that same scenario with them going to volunteer at the library once a week. Or doing their SERIOUS multi-store grocery shopping trip every week. Or the church social every Sunday.

Does he REALLY get the EXACT same advice as he does if it's a hook-up joint? Why can't you admit that if she's whoring at meat markets regularly that there is probably something bad going on?

Why is that so hard?


----------



## Entropy3000

MrK said:


> And one last chance to get an HONEST answer from these gals (and the few cuckold guys) that say I am controlling for not wanting my wife to s.l.u.t around at hook-up joints all weekend.
> 
> What if a brand new member of this site finally got up the nerve to post his story. He talks about the hell he goes through every other Saturday night when it's her time for alone time. He'll be home with the kids while she goes out partying at the bars until 3AM
> 
> She gets dressed up. Not s.l.u.t.t.y, but pretty hot looking. Goes out to the bars with that same friend from work. Every time it's just the two of them. Sure there are horny men, but she NEVER would act inappropriately with them. She tells him she would NEVER party with any strange men. Sure, the occasional dance. Of course she'll accept a free drink or two, who wouldn't? But it NEVER goes beyond ANYTHING he would have a problem with. Details are vague, but hey, like Vodka and That girl say, I'd just be controlling to press for details.
> 
> He tries to let her have her fun, but just the fact that, of ALL OF THE PLACES she could go for her alone time, it's ALWAYS at places known for members of the opposite sex hooking up. Of course I want to trust my wife, but it's always meat markets they go to. I hate it, but I've got to show her I trust her so I let her go.
> 
> OK. If I leave it at that, you'd probably say "Yes, K, you ARE a paranoid little freak. I hope your kids don't end up with serious mental issues". But replace that same scenario with them going to volunteer at the library once a week. Or doing their SERIOUS multi-store grocery shopping trip every week. Or the church social every Sunday.
> 
> Does he REALLY get the EXACT same advice as he does if it's a hook-up joint? Why can't you admit that if she's whoring at meat markets regularly that there is probably something bad going on?
> 
> Why is that so hard?


I would tell the guy to not out up with it. Not be there to be disrepected. To make a better life. However, he is just likely to stay around for the kids and some faint hope his wife will respect him again. 

But you are right about many women defending this activity to the grave. 
It is up to the men however to accept this or to not accept this. For those men that married party girls it is hard to undersand why they expected the life style to change even though logicially it should. The real kicker is where the wife hae not shown this propensity before but for whatever reason changes her life style to start this activity. Many men just flat love their wives too much for their own good it seems. Or they have grown comfortable or both. Children indeed are held hostage. Maybe that is the most cruel element to this of all. The men are in fear not that their wives are seeking out other men but rather that they be called jealous, insecure and controlling. I am so glad I do not have that gene. Truly. I have never had to face this no win scenario but I surely have empathy for those husbands that do.


----------



## Entropy3000

vodkaplease said:


> Meh, eff it, I give up. You're telling me I have bad self esteem 'cuz I take free drinks from men?
> 
> I have to say, when I review the posts from the people who are criticizing my husband and I and how we do stuff, I realize how healthy our relationship is. Particularly considering how young we were when we married and how young we are now. We might have some communication issues, but we both know the difference between taking a drink from a stranger and falling into bed with a stranger and blaming it on being drunk. We both take full responsibility for everything we do, and we're honest with each other about it.
> 
> Yes, we sometimes get jealous, and we each sometimes do stupid stuff, but that stupid stuff has always stopped at flirting. Then, we go home and tell each other about the guy or girl who hit on us today. We both laugh about it, tease the other for being "too sexy," then play Phase 10 and F***, which is exactly why I wasn't posting anything in response to this ridiculousness for the past few hours.
> 
> I think I'm not going to post anything and will only read the crap you guys post about your pathetic excuses for marriage from now on. I feel sorry for your children.


Instead you may want to work out your issues with your husband and tone down your escapades. Life is full of choices. Is he really ok with your activities? Or are you just acting out because he is not providing you with the attention you need?

You might also try doing His Needs Her Needs together. You can start meeting each other real needs. Also you can define the boundaries that you can agree too.

Yes, it is a self esteem issue when you feel you need to cater to other men to get drinks. The obvious one is that it draws the wrong kind of attention. It screams I want your attention. It also says, I and my husband do not have the money for this ourselves. Which puts the man in a power position where he can dominate your husband who has less resources in life. This is classic animal kingdom stuff and you as a human being who has the choice to rationally rise above this is playing right into the base instincts of seeking out the fittest male who controls the resources.


----------



## MrK

Entropy3000 said:


> The real kicker is where the wife has not shown this propensity before but for whatever reason changes her life style to start this activity.


For the record, this is what happened to me and I DID end the behavior. It wasn't hard. Something happened and she realized the "it's only innocent dancing in a man-free bubble" lie was blown. She pretty much had to stop.


----------



## lovelygirl

vodkaplease said:


> BTW, what you're judging me for is particularly ironic considering your profile pic of half your face and your anglo-centric standard of beauty--bleached blonde hair and "hot bod." Who's really looking for attention?


What's wrong with me looking for attention, when, unlike you,*I am single. *
This is the main difference between you and me. 
It doesn't matter if I'm hot or not, blond or brunette. 
It doesn't matter if you think my profile pic is anglo-centric standard of beauty. 
Beauty is relative. 

Anyway, I'm not trying to judge you or your marriage. All I get from your post is that you sound to be trying too hard to get attention from other men while you're married. It feels like you are in the relationship to show each other off in front of other people.

I should add that when I was in the relationship, I NEVER accepted free drinks from other guys, otherwise it would imply that I accepted flirty advances from them. 
At least that's how I used to/still see it.


----------



## Entropy3000

MrK said:


> For the record, this is what happened to me and I DID end the behavior. It wasn't hard. Something happened and she realized the "it's only innocent dancing in a man-free bubble" lie was blown. She pretty much had to stop.


Yes. I remember this in your situation. hard to put blame on the husband when the wife changes her life style. Somehwhat of a bait and switch.


----------



## that_girl

lovelygirl said:


> Nobody was talking about dressing like a sl*t.
> The OP's wife was simply lying when she said she dresses up for her girl-friends. [whether she dresses like sl*t or nice that is a different point, unrelated to what I was trying to say].
> The whole point is that no girl dresses up for the other girls at the bar [unless the girl is a lesbian].


So YOU tell ME what I'm supposed to wear when I go out to a nice place. Be it a bar, a restaurant, whatever...when Hubs isn't with me. 

When I get dressed to go out (when I ever do...like, never), but when I do, I get dressed to get dressed. Because normally I'm in yoga pants and tank tops and it's nice to get dressed up sometimes and wear those shoes you never get to wear. 

I wear mostly black things...is that too sexy? To say that ALL women get dressed for other men is stupid. There is nothing wrong with wanting to look nice for f8ck sake. Maybe HIS wife got dressed up for other men, but I don't...and my friends don't. God damn. Now...if i NEVER dressed for Hubs on our dates and then got all gussied up for the GNO, then that would be a problem...and suspicious. But if you saw me out, and I looked nice, would you assume I'm trolling for some ass? Geebus. 

And for the sarcastic people on here who say, "OH NO, THIS COULD NEVER BE A PROBLEM, blah blah blah", well, no one said it could NEVER be a problem. We're saying it's not ALWAYS a problem. If your marriage was so 'perfect', your wife wouldn't be out doing those things. My husband left last summer....I thought we were fine...NOPE! NOT A PERFECT MARRIAGE!

And women do dress for other women...to COMPETE. I dress cause I like my clothes. But if I can't look nice without my husband, that's lame.


----------



## that_girl

And what places are you all talking about?

Just any bar? Or clubs/fancy bars/etc? I have no idea what places you are all saying us women go to be wh0res.


----------



## that_girl

NextTimeAround said:


> With my women friends, yes, unless we're going to a pub and then I make sure my hair looks ok.
> 
> I don't know where that women dress up for other women stuff come from. I don't dress up for other women.
> 
> I amke a point of looking nice when I am with my fiance.


So you go out looking like crap? :rofl:

You dont' put on a nice teeshirt and some jeans?

My friends and I look nice. We sit in "mom" clothes all the time. So for 2 days a year, we like to look nice.


----------



## that_girl

Caribbean Man said:


> I work with mostly women.
> I have been to and seen these " Girls night Out " parties in clubs and sport bars....
> Not " marriage friendly " at all....
> The last one I attended was an " after work lime." to celebrate a MARRIED WOMAN'S birthday. She was a supervisor with a company we do business with. I know her husband,he was not there.[ He is a techie who handles our systems] Another man was there.[ OM] she got so drunk that she couldn't walk.
> Her " FRIENDS " let OM take her home.
> Today she has a child for OM, serious marital problems, [ OM is a different race to husband] , and she lost her job.
> All her " FRIENDS" are still employed with the company, and enjoying their lives.


This is an event I would have left...if i went at all. I don't go to bachelorette parties either. Trashy! but in all honesty, I haven't been out with a friend in almost a year :rofl: And when it is GNO, it's me....and a friend. Not a group of stupid "woo girls".


----------



## The Middleman

What happened to the OP? Did we scare the crap out of him?


----------



## lovelygirl

that_girl said:


> So YOU tell ME what I'm supposed to wear when I go out to a nice place. Be it a bar, a restaurant, whatever...when Hubs isn't with me.
> 
> When I get dressed to go out (when I ever do...like, never), but when I do, I get dressed to get dressed. Because normally I'm in yoga pants and tank tops and it's nice to get dressed up sometimes and wear those shoes you never get to wear.
> 
> .


Sorry, but who was talking about YOU, personally? *I was talking about the OP's WIFE and her lies when she says she gets dressed for her girl-friends *. Why do you keep on bringing up how YOU dress up. Nobody is acusing you of dressing up like a sl*t and nobody is telling you how to dress up. 
With all the respect, nobody was talking about/referring to you.
At least not me. 

Get it right, please.


----------



## lovelygirl

that_girl said:


> And what places are you all talking about?
> 
> Just any bar? Or clubs/fancy bars/etc? I have no idea what places you are all saying us women go to be wh0res.


No woman is a wh0re unless she acts/dresses up like one, no matter where she is and with who.


----------



## NextTimeAround

that_girl said:


> So you go out looking like crap? :rofl:
> 
> *You dont' put on a nice teeshirt and some jeans?*
> 
> My friends and I look nice. We sit in "mom" clothes all the time. So for 2 days a year, we like to look nice.


Yeah, I do put on clothes when I leave my house. If I'm dropping in on a friend, I might still have conditioner in my hair.


----------



## lovelygirl

that_girl said:


> And women do dress for other women...to COMPETE. .


Yes, they dress up to compete. BUT FOR WHO?
For other men, obviously. It's all about men. They dress up to compete with each other in front of other men's eyes. They don't compete for each other.


----------



## A Bit Much

lovelygirl said:


> Yes, they dress up to compete. BUT FOR WHO?
> For other men, obviously. It's all about men. They dress up to compete with each other in front of other men's eyes. They don't compete for each other.


I don't disagree with this, but there are women out there that also dress up to compete with one another. "Yes, I be the prettiest prettiest girl!!" (stolen from Gia)

It's catty as hell but it happens. Women do compete with one another. It's what the media is fed on... Kim Kardashian is an example. There are women that want to BE her out there. The Octomom changed her appearance to look like Angelina Jolie. These people didn't do this for the attention of men. It's to one up their fellow female counterparts. It makes them feel superior.


----------



## Grayson

that_girl said:


> And what places are you all talking about?
> 
> Just any bar? Or clubs/fancy bars/etc? I have no idea what places you are all saying us women go to be wh0res.


Good luck getting an answer. I've asked for the definition of the "meat market" term that's been pretty casually tossed around in this thread (and we can now add "hook up joint" as needing similar definition). I've asked basically the same question you just did. Still no response.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## A Bit Much

I'm thinking due to all the fuss, the GNO conversation needs to happen before the vows. Just get it all out what is expected and what isn't... kind of the same way you would talk about finances or having kids or whatever.

Clubbing isn't appealing to me, and really never was, even when I was single. And maybe I'm weird, but I don't need to be in the company of women all the time. I prefer spending time with my husband... that's why I got married. Everyone is different though...


----------



## Acorn

Grayson said:


> Good luck getting an answer. I've asked for the definition of the "meat market" term that's been pretty casually tossed around in this thread (and we can now add "hook up joint" as needing similar definition). I've asked basically the same question you just did. Still no response.


I'll try...a bar, nightclub, etc. characterized by its patrons' aggressive pursuit of casual sex.

I totally plagiarized that from a dictionary site though.


----------



## A Bit Much

Acorn said:


> I'll try...a bar, nightclub, etc. characterized by its patrons' aggressive pursuit of casual sex.
> 
> I totally plagiarized that from a dictionary site though.


LOL.

The same thing can be said about Facebook or other networking sites. And you don't even have to dress up.


----------



## NextTimeAround

A Bit Much said:


> LOL.
> 
> The same thing can be said about Facebook or other networking sites. And you don't even have to dress up.


that is true. and according to a lot of dating books, you can meet a potential date at the grocery store, in line at the post office, the cash machine and so on. I don't buy it. But many of these books go on to be best sellers, so someone is buying it.


----------



## MrK

I thought I had the greatest marriage possible. We loved each other and loved to spend time together. She was my best friend, my life. 

My wife was never a clubber. But even though I hated it, I let my wife go clubbing until 3AM, twice a month, because I bought into the whole "controlling Neanderthal" argument about having a problem with it. Turns out her toxic friend introduced her to a lifestyle she couldn't resist. The music, the men, the flirting, the dancing, the free drinks, the partying with strange guys. The making a game out of getting drunk for free. I actually thank God a guy she met called her to set up a date. The fact that she called him back and set something up made me realize she had even sold HERSELF on the whole "it's all innocent" crap. The following fight ended that.

You people ALL KNOW what we are talking about. You're not that stupid. But on the off chance that you really ARE that dumb, go to the search button of this and other, similar sites. Type "wingman", "Wingwoman", "clubbing", "buy me drinks", "bought me drinks", "drink for free", "get drunk for free", "went dancing". Be sure to put the multi-word phrases in quotes or you get any post with "get" in it. 

Read through the results. Even though I had an idea what was going on, I got physically ill while reading the posts. You see, doing it that way got the results of not only the controlling Neanderthals crying about their wives going out, but you got posts by the girls who trolled for married guys and the guys that banged married women. And they didn't even LEAVE THE CLUB for some of it: BJ's in the bathroom, handjobs in the back booths, making out on the dance floor with someone they just met. Ever do that in a supermarket aisle?

But you don't have to do that. You know what you'll see (actually, you THINK you know what you'll see. I can GUARANTEE there will be posts that will amaze even the hardest of partiers).

But you know all that, don't you. That is why all the "don't be a controlling D.I.C.K" bulls.h.i.t is exactly that. Bull****.

Why is it so hard to admit I'm right? You KNOW I am?


----------



## A Bit Much

> My wife was never a clubber. But even though I hated it, I let my wife go clubbing until 3AM, twice a month, because I bought into the whole "controlling Neanderthal" argument about having a problem with it. Turns out her toxic friend introduced her to a lifestyle she couldn't resist.


You both are the reason why your marriage is the way it is. It's not the 'toxic friend', most likely your wife always had it in her to begin with. And you went with it all against your better judgment, and it got out of control.


----------



## MrK

A Bit Much said:


> ...you went with it all against your better judgment, and it got out of control.


So which is it? I'm a controlling Neanderthal or was I wrong for NOT being a controlling Neanderthal?

That's it. I'm out. Good luck to you all who allow strange men and alcohol into your marriages.


----------



## A Bit Much

MrK said:


> So which is it? I'm a controlling Neanderthal or was I wrong for NOT being a controlling Neanderthal?
> 
> That's it. I'm out. Good luck to you all who allow strange men and alcohol into your marriages.


Telling your wife you don't like something she's doing isn't being a controlling neanderthal. What kind of marriage do you have if you can't tell your spouse you don't like something they're doing, or that it's causing harm to your relationship? Personally I think it makes you a punk if you don't say anything that you KNOW is causing a problem. You didn't do that.


----------



## Grayson

MrK said:


> And one last chance to get an HONEST answer from these gals (and the few cuckold guys) that say I am controlling for not wanting my wife to s.l.u.t around at hook-up joints all weekend.
> 
> What if a brand new member of this site finally got up the nerve to post his story. He talks about the hell he goes through every other Saturday night when it's her time for alone time. He'll be home with the kids while she goes out partying at the bars until 3AM
> 
> She gets dressed up. Not s.l.u.t.t.y, but pretty hot looking. Goes out to the bars with that same friend from work. Every time it's just the two of them. Sure there are horny men, but she NEVER would act inappropriately with them. She tells him she would NEVER party with any strange men. Sure, the occasional dance. Of course she'll accept a free drink or two, who wouldn't? But it NEVER goes beyond ANYTHING he would have a problem with. Details are vague, but hey, like Vodka and That girl say, I'd just be controlling to press for details.
> 
> He tries to let her have her fun, but just the fact that, of ALL OF THE PLACES she could go for her alone time, it's ALWAYS at places known for members of the opposite sex hooking up. Of course I want to trust my wife, but it's always meat markets they go to. I hate it, but I've got to show her I trust her so I let her go.
> 
> OK. If I leave it at that, you'd probably say "Yes, K, you ARE a paranoid little freak. I hope your kids don't end up with serious mental issues". But replace that same scenario with them going to volunteer at the library once a week. Or doing their SERIOUS multi-store grocery shopping trip every week. Or the church social every Sunday.
> 
> Does he REALLY get the EXACT same advice as he does if it's a hook-up joint? Why can't you admit that if she's whoring at meat markets regularly that there is probably something bad going on?
> 
> Why is that so hard?


Because you're operating from a logically flawed conclusion that this is a yes/no, black/white, binary scenario...that women going out for drinks together is, by its very nature, an indication that they are "whoring around at meat markets," that not dressing like slobs to do so is inviting men to hit on them, and that going someplace that serves alcohol (because that's what they want to drink) indicates they want to go to a "hook up joint" and will find themselves incapable of turning away any advances made upon them. You've determined, based upon this logical fallacy, that a "girls' night out" will, inevitably and without fail lead to infidelity and the potential downfall of the marriage, while any husband who does not forbid his wife from socializing with other women in public without his presence is a "cuckold."

I think it's worth noting that no one is saying that the scenario you paint CAN'T happen or DOESN'T happen...simply that it doesn't ALWAYS happen, and when it does, it's because the woman in question (since we're talking about GNO's) chose to let it happen. The setting doesn't matter...if she's made the decision to cross those boundaries, she can find someone to cross them with anywhere.

One sub-topic that's come up is the attached woman's acceptance of drinks purchased by a man. Again, not necessarily a binary topic. Accepting the drink does not mean the woman is now obligated to jump in the sack with the man who bought the drink. It doesn't even mean she's obligated to speak to him at all. As long as she's not actively fishing to have drinks bought for her, if someone offers to buy one...well...that's that much more that she's not spending. As long as she keeps her boundaries in place, if someone else wants to subsidize her evening with her friends, knowing full well that it may not lead to anything, I don't see a problem.

What is and isn't acceptable for an individual or a couple has variations...a subject like a "girls' night out" is one of those situations where the couple's history and the two partners' strengths, weaknesses and personalities all factor in to that determination. It's not a one size fits all response.

And, for the record, I'm STILL curious as to what, exactly, makes an establishment a "meat market" or "hook up joint."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## OneLoveXo

I am not going to like but I like being checked out, but only cause it's a nice ego boost. However if one of those guys made a move on me, it would make me extremely uncomfrtable and I would leave. 

My bf and I had this guy we bought skate board supplies from (he was sorta our friend), at first I noticed he is very attractive (as any person would), and clearly he found me attractive, it was nice to have that as a compliment, however that guy started hitting on me, tried giving hugs only to me and even kissed me on the cheek once. 

I told my bf how he did that and that is made me extremely uncomfrtable, so now we found someone else to deal with. It was just too much, I wanted to be found attractive but I don't want all that other attention, I am truly in love with my man and I don't ever think of another man like that.

When I am with my bf I dress more than when i got with my gf's; I don't want him to look at anyone else but me


----------



## Racer

Sorry, Long...
GNO’s I haven’t really had a problem with. I guess that is because the GNO’s seldom involve a bar; They do other things like concerts, bbq’s, pool days, spa days, etc. And it’s a large group of girls (6-12). So, while there are the ****ty ones, there are also the nanny types who reel in those who might be making poor choices. I’ve had no trust issues on this at all. Which, all in all considering my wife’s multiple OM’s, is shocking. I’ll even let her do overnights to visit a friend who relocated across the State just because I have some confidence in that girl and her husband..

It’s the co-worker happy hour thing that gave me problems; There were guys she spent too much time getting to know. Several EA’s resulted from that. That was her party crowd and in my mind, were things go bad. They reinforce the ‘escape fantasy’ for the evening; “Just have fun and forget about work and family duties for a night. Take the night off, you deserve it...” mentality.

But now I’m somewhat of a Neanderthal. My wife abused that trust. So, she’d go to GNO, leave early and go on her dates. Now she has to be a ton more accountable and several of her GNO friendships know the score and don’t take issue that she has to ‘verfiy’ her whereabouts regularly. She isn’t ‘encouraged’ to go to happy hours; Ramifications if she chooses to do it.

And well, a new glitch. I’m a hypocrite. I started going out with old school chums after discovery of her affairs and looking around finding myself alone without any close friends to lean on that weren’t tied to her. It started as guys, but now there are a couple women. Spouses aren’t welcome and my wife know this. Drives her mad; Like massive arguments over it. It isn’t as though anything bad is going on, it only happens every other month, but there is some marriage bashing (and they all know her as well, hence some of her overboard reactions as a wayward being ‘embarrassed’). And I’ve got that same (?poor?) attitude of “I need to get out of the house, get some breathing room from my wife, meet new people, and develop friendships of my own.” The guilt for feeling that is huge and counterbalanced with a massive ‘entitled’ feeling considering I dealt with six years of this from her; A pinch of revenge is there too knowing the anxiety she is going through while I’m out and not really knowing exactly what is going on or if I’m outing her to these people.. Yet I do enjoy my time talking about other things with other people... I understand why my wife liked her nights out without me.


----------



## Grayson

Racer, what you describe is perfectly understandable, given the circumstances you've related. The trust was abused, thus, there's a tighter rein on GNO circumstances and settings (although, as you seem to agree, the "do as I say, not as I do" element of your "boys' nights out" leave something to be desired).

My biggest beef in this thread has to do with the "guilty until proven innocent...and even then, I still think you're guilty" view that some seem to be taking in regards to the matter. The assumption seems to be made that any married woman who goes out with friends to drink is either up to no good or can easily be convinced to be up to no good, and - even speaking as someone whose wife had 2 EA's and 1 PA, yet has managed to rebuild (and none of those had anything to do with GNO's) - I don't think that's a realistic or healthy point of view to take.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Acorn

I think for a lot of guys, it's more of a 500,000 foot view... the vast majority of women will be just fine on any given bar-night GNO, but not all of them. And given that inhibitions will be lower and opportunities are higher than usual at the GNO, it's even more of a risk.

Why take risks with something so precious and fragile as a marriage?


----------



## MrK

Grayson said:


> And, for the record, I'm STILL curious as to what, exactly, makes an establishment a "meat market" or "hook up joint."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That is such a stupid thing to say. You know EXACTLY what we're talking about. Why don't you just answer your own question and get on with your agenda without involving us.


----------



## resetbuttonpushed

that_girl said:


> I get dressed up because I like looking good with or without my husband around. lol. I wouldn't wear my 'cleaning' clothes. I get dressed up when I go out with Hubs too. Show the boobies and the legs when I go out with him
> 
> I don't flirt with people when and if I go out. I just chill with the people I'm with and then go home.


Totally this, and the drinking is what makes me more loose, I am the same and can't wait to get home to my husband, lucky for you, your wife is getting loose with you and not someone else.


----------



## Entropy3000

Grayson said:


> Good luck getting an answer. I've asked for the definition of the "meat market" term that's been pretty casually tossed around in this thread (and we can now add "hook up joint" as needing similar definition). I've asked basically the same question you just did. Still no response.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are not getting a response because it boggles the imagination that you do not realize that there are all sorts of places in Dallas alone. Start in Deep Elum.

Look for places where there is club dancing. Start there. Places where people are grinding on one another. Then perhaps you can go to Fort Worth and go to the C&W places. Different culture but same idea. 

When was the last time your were in Austin? Houston. How about Lubbock even. LOL. Any college town for sure.

Where do these ladies go to dance ina circle.

The hotel I was in in San Francisco. The Clift. This was night at Roxbury.
There are thousands of places across this great land. Not to mention the strip clubs for both men and women.


----------



## Entropy3000

A Bit Much said:


> You both are the reason why your marriage is the way it is. It's not the 'toxic friend', most likely your wife always had it in her to begin with. And you went with it all against your better judgment, and it got out of control.


Yes, but he never should have gone along with it.


----------



## Grayson

MrK said:


> That is such a stupid thing to say. You know EXACTLY what we're talking about. Why don't you just answer your own question and get on with your agenda without involving us.


If I knew "EXACTLY" what you're talking about, I wouldn't be asking for clarification, such as (as I've asked several times), is ANY establishment that sees a large percentage of its sales made from alcohol a "meat market" or "hook up joint?" Is every bar on the planet in that category, or just certain ones?

As far as "getting on with an agenda," if saying that not everyone who goes out to drink is "whoring around" is an "agenda," what would you call vehemently making a sweeping generalization that going out for drinks inevitably leads to infidelity?

Hello, kettle? This is the pot. You're black.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Entropy3000

Grayson said:


> Because you're operating from a logically flawed conclusion that this is a yes/no, black/white, binary scenario...that women going out for drinks together is, by its very nature, an indication that they are "whoring around at meat markets," that not dressing like slobs to do so is inviting men to hit on them, and that going someplace that serves alcohol (because that's what they want to drink) indicates they want to go to a "hook up joint" and will find themselves incapable of turning away any advances made upon them. You've determined, based upon this logical fallacy, that a "girls' night out" will, inevitably and without fail lead to infidelity and the potential downfall of the marriage, while any husband who does not forbid his wife from socializing with other women in public without his presence is a "cuckold."
> 
> I think it's worth noting that no one is saying that the scenario you paint CAN'T happen or DOESN'T happen...simply that it doesn't ALWAYS happen, and when it does, it's because the woman in question (since we're talking about GNO's) chose to let it happen. The setting doesn't matter...if she's made the decision to cross those boundaries, she can find someone to cross them with anywhere.
> 
> One sub-topic that's come up is the attached woman's acceptance of drinks purchased by a man. Again, not necessarily a binary topic. Accepting the drink does not mean the woman is now obligated to jump in the sack with the man who bought the drink. It doesn't even mean she's obligated to speak to him at all. As long as she's not actively fishing to have drinks bought for her, if someone offers to buy one...well...that's that much more that she's not spending. As long as she keeps her boundaries in place, if someone else wants to subsidize her evening with her friends, knowing full well that it may not lead to anything, I don't see a problem.
> 
> What is and isn't acceptable for an individual or a couple has variations...a subject like a "girls' night out" is one of those situations where the couple's history and the two partners' strengths, weaknesses and personalities all factor in to that determination. It's not a one size fits all response.
> 
> And, for the record, I'm STILL curious as to what, exactly, makes an establishment a "meat market" or "hook up joint."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You have lead a very sheltered life if you cannot tell the difference. Surely there are shades of gray but seriously you do know the difference. Saying everywhere is just like starbucks or the grovery store is most ingenuous. Any place that is in business for the expressed purpose of people hooking up like a dance club where people are grinding on one other counts. 

These are the places guys go to to pick up women. Typically where there is flowing of alcohol, intimate lighting, seductive music, couples kissing in the corner and groping on the dance floor. Every location has a "body exchange" in their local area. Guess you are not very hip if you really have no clue what this is about.

These are very different from marriage friendly GNOs where there is no direct mixing and drinking with other men. Having dinner at Chilis at 8pm is ok. 

Now if a woman is hell bent on getting laid she can walk into just about any place and get laid. So what you might want to do is define this by where guys go to pick up women for the night.


----------



## Entropy3000

OneLoveXo said:


> I am not going to like but I like being checked out, but only cause it's a nice ego boost. However if one of those guys made a move on me, it would make me extremely uncomfrtable and I would leave.
> 
> My bf and I had this guy we bought skate board supplies from (he was sorta our friend), at first I noticed he is very attractive (as any person would), and clearly he found me attractive, it was nice to have that as a compliment, however that guy started hitting on me, tried giving hugs only to me and even kissed me on the cheek once.
> 
> I told my bf how he did that and that is made me extremely uncomfrtable, so now we found someone else to deal with. It was just too much, I wanted to be found attractive but I don't want all that other attention, I am truly in love with my man and I don't ever think of another man like that.
> 
> When I am with my bf I dress more than when i got with my gf's; I don't want him to look at anyone else but me


My wife dresses classy when she goes on GNOs. When she is with me she ups the heat. Always has. 

I guess a guy needs to worry if his wife dresses cool for him but hot when she is out at night without him.

Also when women say dress up I think they mean different things. Meaning some women just look classy and feminine. Others are showing nipples and butt cheeks if not wearing sheer clothing to some extent. Some just flat leave the underwear at home.

So those that go to Applebees for dinner and have a few drinks and are actually fully clothed ... this is not who we are talking about.


----------



## Entropy3000

Grayson said:


> If I knew "EXACTLY" what you're talking about, I wouldn't be asking for clarification, such as (as I've asked several times), is ANY establishment that sees a large percentage of its sales made from alcohol a "meat market" or "hook up joint?" Is every bar on the planet in that category, or just certain ones?
> 
> As far as "getting on with an agenda," if saying that not everyone who goes out to drink is "whoring around" is an "agenda," what would you call vehemently making a sweeping generalization that going out for drinks inevitably leads to infidelity?
> 
> Hello, kettle? This is the pot. You're black.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think the majority of folks are just wanting to play just the tip. They enjoy pushing the boundaries. You keep drinking and pushing boundaries you are well on your way to breaking your vows to one extent or the other. This is not difficult stuff.
It is the seduction. What gets folks excited one day is not enough the next time out. It is about slipping boundaries. Very simple concept here.

But again this is not just about cheating. It is about respect for your spouse. If you boundary is penis in vagina so be it.

But maybe we can just agree on one thing. If a husband has issue with what a wife is doing and she does it anyway ... there is no marriage. Vive versa as well. Because that by definition is being unfaithful.


----------



## Grayson

Entropy3000 said:


> You are not getting a response because it boggles the imagination that you do not realize that there are all sorts of places in Dallas alone.


Oh, I'm quite sure. But, for the purposes of this conversation, it would appear that some are applying those terms to any business that serves alcohol. I'm trying to make sure we're on the same page, which is why most of my requests for clarification have included a more specific variation on the question, namely if, indeed, anyplace that serves alcohol qualifies or if other factors are involved.



> Start in Deep Elum.


Ok. Granted, it's been many years since I went to Deep Ellum (Club Dada in '02 or '03 for a Ten Hands reunion show), but - call me naive - I never really thought of Dada or Trees as "meat markets." But then, I was always there for the bands, as, it seemed, most of the crowd was.



> Look for places where there is club dancing. Start there. Places where people are grinding on one another. Then perhaps you can go to Fort Worth and go to the C&W places. Different culture but same idea.


So, the presence of dancing automatically makes an establishment a "meat market hook up joint?" I guess I never knew because I have no rhythm and don't dance. Despite that, went to a couple of dance clubs with my college gf and neither of us suddenly felt the need to give in to advances from others.



> When was the last time your were in Austin?


I want to say roughly 1993, unless you count passing through.



> Houston.


Will be there for the first time in about three weeks.



> How about Lubbock even.


Never.



> LOL. Any college town for sure.


Was in Denton for a few hours at the beginning of May. I wasn't suddenly overcome with the urge to make advances on every woman I saw. Because now, apparently, it's not just bars...entire college towns are "meat markets."



> Where do these ladies go to dance ina circle.





> The hotel I was in in San Francisco. The Clift. This was night at Roxbury.
> There are thousands of places across this great land.


And, again, I'm not disputing that such places exist. Simply attempting to establish and confirm what, for the same of this conversation, constitutes one. Because there are some in the thread who, from context of their posts, seem to be applying a pretty broad brush when tossing those terms around.



> Not to mention the strip clubs for both men and women.


Why not mention them? My wife and I go to one once a month. While I freely admit that my knowledge of male strip clubs comes entirely from tv and movies, I'd hardly call the club we go to a "meat market" OR a "hook up joint."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Entropy3000

Grayson said:


> Oh, I'm quite sure. But, for the purposes of this conversation, it would appear that some are applying those terms to any business that serves alcohol. I'm trying to make sure we're on the same page, which is why most of my requests for clarification have included a more specific variation on the question, namely if, indeed, anyplace that serves alcohol qualifies or if other factors are involved.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok. Granted, it's been many years since I went to Deep Ellum (Club Dada in '02 or '03 for a Ten Hands reunion show), but - call me naive - I never really thought of Dada or Trees as "meat markets." But then, I was always there for the bands, as, it seemed, most of the crowd was.
> 
> 
> 
> So, the presence of dancing automatically makes an establishment a "meat market hook up joint?" I guess I never knew because I have no rhythm and don't dance. Despite that, went to a couple of dance clubs with my college gf and neither of us suddenly felt the need to give in to advances from others.
> 
> 
> 
> I want to say roughly 1993, unless you count passing through.
> 
> 
> 
> Will be there for the first time in about three weeks.
> 
> 
> 
> Never.
> 
> 
> 
> Was in Denton for a few hours at the beginning of May. I wasn't suddenly overcome with the urge to make advances on every woman I saw. Because now, apparently, it's not just bars...entire college towns are "meat markets."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And, again, I'm not disputing that such places exist. Simply attempting to establish and confirm what, for the same of this conversation, constitutes one. Because there are some in the thread who, from context of their posts, seem to be applying a pretty broad brush when tossing those terms around.
> 
> 
> 
> Why not mention them? My wife and I go to one once a month. While I freely admit that my knowledge of male strip clubs comes entirely from tv and movies, I'd hardly call the club we go to a "meat market" OR a "hook up joint."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Fair enough. I do think there is a lot of gray area to go around. There is definitely a judgement call to be made. Some places are more obvioulsy singles hookup places. 

I totally agree that all places that serve booze are not by definition places to hook up and I do agree if someone wants to hook up they can do it anywhere.
In fact most places that serve alcohol are not that way. 

But the extreme places are hard to argue for is what I am saying.


----------



## Grayson

Entropy3000 said:


> Fair enough. I do think there is a lot of gray area to go around. There is definitely a judgement call to be made. Some places are more obvioulsy singles hookup places.
> 
> I totally agree that all places that serve booze are not by definition places to hook up and I do agree if someone wants to hook up they can do it anywhere.
> In fact most places that serve alcohol are not that way.
> 
> But the extreme places are hard to argue for is what I am saying.


Of course. And, it sounds like you and I are pretty much on the same page about it. Others, however, such as MrK seem to be saying that any establishment with women+alcohol-SO's="meat market" as well as women+alcohol-SO's=inevitable infidelity. And, it seems like you and I are pretty much on the same page that this isn't always the case. My requests for clarification were directed more at the participants who act almost as if they are on a crusade against the evil that is GNO, as they're the ones being pretty darned free with the terms.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CandieGirl

As I just finished recently discussing in another thread, stupid things (dangerous things) can SOMETIMES happen when there is alcohol involved, particularly if copious amounts are consumed.

If, as a woman, you can go out, and literally have one drink, have your fun and go home, then that's great. Quite often, and I've done it myself with my own GFs, and seen it around me countless times, the booze flows freely, the inhibitions fall away, it becomes easy for a sleazeball predator to take advantage of a very drunk woman.

It took one rather unpleasant incident to make me stop with the GNOs and the binge drinking that tended to accompany them.


----------



## Santa

I will say, as a club DJ for yrs before marriage, you BETTER not be Ok with GNO at a "club". 

The most over the top crazy sex things I have seen over the years from the DJ booth were married women out and away from husband. Its like a couple of drinks and they lose all self respect and think they are in Fantasy land and there are hundreds of men waiting to help them keep the fantasy going. 

Not all, of course, but WAY more than not. Much more than you would imagine. Some of the married women I respected the most, I have seen do the most of the things that have shocked me the most. 

As a DJ, you know when a bunch of GNO married women come in the club, that the night will be wild. Single girls that go out dont act the way most of the married GNO women do. I guess they feel like they are finally out and no one will see or know when its clear to all the regular club goers that most any of them are easy pickings after a few drinks, some dancing, compliments and more free drinks and a few more drinks. 


For instance, I have seen "what I thought" was one of the most perfect wife's ever, with great husband and kids, sunday school teacher, etc, get drunk and let a stranger "eat her out" while she sat on a speaker box in corner of dance floor and he was under her dress... Things like this happened ALL the time and MOSTLY with married women on GNO's. The regular club girls would never because they will be back next weekend and everyone would talk about them. These married women seem to loose all reasoning like they are on another planet and no one will ever know. 
Made me swear I would never get married.. 


I know its not always the case but I would say, its been my experiences over years, that more married women on GNO do naughty things with other men than don't on these little "escapes".

Take it for whats its worth. But I would compare it to parking your new car in downtown Chicago with keys in it and running with windows down and all your money on front seat and then being surprised someone stole it.. 

Just my two cents..


----------



## MrK

Thanks Santa.

Grayson?


----------



## MrK

And I didn't just come to my conclusions based on my paranoia over my wife's freedom. I posted a few pages back about searching the archives of this and similar sites with certain key-words and phrases and got A LOT of post's like Santa's. 

I had (what I thought was) a perfect marriage. There's an old post on this site someone wrote about GNO's being "legitimized infidelity". I should look that one up. It was a good post. There is something about these places being legitimate establishments that makes any behavior you can legally do in them OK.

Sure, some men may go to Korean massage parlors and get legitimate muscle relaxation work. But most get a happy ending. Should a wife have a problem if her husband goes to one weekly? Of course.


----------



## NextTimeAround

that_girl said:


> So you go out looking like crap? :rofl:
> 
> *You dont' put on a nice teeshirt and some jeans?*
> 
> My friends and I look nice. We sit in "mom" clothes all the time. So for 2 days a year, we like to look nice.


the other irony that I should point out here is that not only do men prefer women in dresses and skirts (more feminine), most women actually look better in a dress or skirt than jeans anyway.

A friend of mine was amazed at how much more male attention she got when she lost the pants and wore skirts to work.


----------



## CandieGirl

NextTimeAround said:


> the other irony that I should point out here is that not only do men prefer women in dresses and skirts (more feminine), most women actually look better in a dress or skirt than jeans anyway.
> 
> A friend of mine was amazed at how much more male attention she got when she lost the pants and wore skirts to work.


That's good if what you're looking for is male attention; I'm married now. I don't really care about male attention. But I still get some. Lol...


----------



## Santa

A stip club is FAR FAR FAR safer place sexually than a Night Club. 

Would a wife approve of a Guys Night Out at the Strip Club??

Its actually much more safer "marriage wise" than any Night Club. 

Thats a fact/


----------



## Santa

I would suggest, if wife wants to go. If she wants to go again, your are in trouble.


----------



## CandieGirl

Strip clubs? Dance clubs? If those things still interest you, for the love of Pete, just stay single.


----------



## Grayson

MrK said:


> Thanks Santa.
> 
> Grayson?


MrK?

I will, once again, point out that neither I nor anyone else in this thread have said such things never happen. That they happen at all does not, however, mean they happen on all or most such excursions.



MrK said:


> And I didn't just come to my conclusions based on my paranoia over my wife's freedom. I posted a few pages back about searching the archives of this and similar sites with certain key-words and phrases and got A LOT of post's like Santa's.


And I don't doubt your search results. I would submit, however, that people tend to remember and/or post about negatively-associated happenings...bad customer service, problems with the spouse, etc. For instance, using TAM as an example, you will find that there are far more posts along the lines of, "My spouse did such-and-such, and I don't like it." than "My spouse did such-and-such, and everything is fine." Of course, if I go to, say, the Best Buy customer forums (which I have), I'm also going to find more posts By dissatisfied customers than satisfied customers." People tend to speak up publicly more when they're unhappy than when they're happy.

By that same token, I don't doubt what Santa says he's seen, but I do doubt that he polls every group of women that comes in the door to see if they're married and/or on a GNO. So, I would suggest that he recalls those instances of outrageous behavior specifically because they were outrageous. How many other women have gone in for a GNO, behaved just fine, and didn't even register on his radar because he was too busy doing his job to take special notice of people behaving the way you would expect them to?



> I had (what I thought was) a perfect marriage. There's an old post on this site someone wrote about GNO's being "legitimized infidelity". I should look that one up. It was a good post. There is something about these places being legitimate establishments that makes any behavior you can legally do in them OK.
> 
> Sure, some men may go to Korean massage parlors and get legitimate muscle relaxation work. But most get a happy ending. Should a wife have a problem if her husband goes to one weekly? Of course.


There's that broad brush again. If the husband is getting legitimate muscle relaxation work, what's the problem? HE isn't doing anything wrong, and that's what matters between the two of them. What impact is made on their marriage by the guy in the next room that neither of them know getting his "happy ending?" If the wife has reasonable concerns, that's where this wacky thing called communication (on both their parts) comes into play. To borrow your analogy, though, you seem to be saying that, because some men go to "happy ending" massage parlors for that "happy ending," that NO men should receive a professional massage, regardless of where they go or who administers the massage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Grayson

Santa said:


> A stip club is FAR FAR FAR safer place sexually than a Night Club.
> 
> Would a wife approve of a Guys Night Out at the Strip Club??
> 
> Its actually much more safer "marriage wise" than any Night Club.
> 
> Thats a fact/


Couldn't tell you if mine would approve of a guys' night out at a strip club, because most of my guy friends wouldn't want to go to one. But, my wife and I go together to one once a month. So my assumption is that, knowing me as well as she does, she wouldn't have a problem with it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Santa

CandieGirl said:


> Strip clubs? Dance clubs? If those things still interest you, for the love of Pete, just stay single.




Bingo! :smnotworthy:


----------



## Grayson

CandieGirl said:


> Strip clubs? Dance clubs? If those things still interest you, for the love of Pete, just stay single.


So a wedding ring should eliminate all interest in dancing?

Before we met, my wife would go country dancing with her bf and/or friends.
Me, I a) cant stand country music and b) have no rhythm, and thus can't dance.

So, is it your position that if she wanted to go country dancing, we should divorce, since she should have stayed single if dancing holds any appeal to her?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sisters359

Other than the comment Hicks originally made about women wanting to attract males as being "biology," I agree with what he said 11 pages ago.

But he didn't go far enough--it is on BOTH of you to find your boundaries. If yours is "no go" and her's is "I make my own decisions about how to spend my free time," you are in for a rough ride.

I and many women I know have had many, many gno times when male interest has been just plain irritating. I'm not there for them; I'm there for ME and my friends. I don't drink, so maybe that makes me more "reliable," but I LOVE to dance wildly and party as much as the next girl/woman. 

The bottom line is, how secure is your wife in her attractiveness? Only she can answer that question. A woman who needs male approval to feel attractive may be at considerably more risk than a woman who believes she is all that and a bag of chips. In other words, solid self-esteem keeps a person from being vulnerable to approaches/expressed interest from members of the opposite sex. If she is happy with herself, then you have nothing to fear.

Furthermore, if you cannot trust her to look after herself and respect the marriage (b/c she has demonstrated she is NOT trustworthy), then you have a bigger issue. If you cannot trust her b/c of YOUR problems, like jealousy and your own shaky self esteem, then that is simply your problem and all the controls you put on HER will not solve it. Good luck.


----------



## Santa

Grayson said:


> By that same token, I don't doubt what Santa says he's seen, but I do doubt that he polls every group of women that comes in the door to see if they're married and/or on a GNO. _Posted via Mobile Device_



Its my job to notice and to cater to whomever walks in the door and 90% a group of married women on GNO stick out like a sore thumb actually. They dont think so, but the people that work there and/or go there regularly can spot them very easy actually. 

To us: GNO = more money for club/employees.
To married women: GNO = "Girls just wanna have fun" 
To men in club: GNO = Easy opportunities

Men dont go to Clubs because they like to dance, I promise you.
(If they do, they are Gay and its a Gay Bar)

Easy prey is how they are viewed by the "club boys" (I use the term "boys" on purpose), to be honest.

A few free drinks and Mrs "never gets out" finds herself having lots of fun and eventually making really bad decisions. 

Sure there are the ones that shun men away but more of them start off shunning and end the night/morning doing the walk of shame. 

Its not anywhere I would ever recommend anyone married going, just like a strip club and as I said, a strip club is actually safer "marriage wise" than any Night Club worth its salt.


----------



## Santa

Grayson said:


> Couldn't tell you if mine would approve of a guys' night out at a strip club, because most of my guy friends wouldn't want to go to one. But, my wife and I go together to one once a month. So my assumption is that, knowing me as well as she does, she wouldn't have a problem with it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And there is NOTHING wrong with that for you. 

If you go together, then thats really great actually. 

But I doubt most would want each other in that situation apart.


----------



## Santa

Grayson said:


> So a wedding ring should eliminate all interest in dancing?
> 
> Before we met, my wife would go country dancing with her bf and/or friends.
> Me, I a) cant stand country music and b) have no rhythm, and thus can't dance.
> 
> So, is it your position that if she wanted to go country dancing, we should divorce, since she should have stayed single if dancing holds any appeal to her?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Nope thats a choice you both have to be ok with. 
Personally, I wouldnt park my new car in downtown Chicago running with the keys in it and windows rolled down. 
Nothing wrong with doing it and may do it a hundred times with no issues at all. But it only takes one time under the right situatuion.

I just think its not wise myself to have my wife in a place without me, where she is targeted prey and conditions are intended to seduce.


----------



## Santa

sisters359 said:


> The bottom line is, how secure is your wife in her attractiveness? Only she can answer that question. A woman who needs male approval to feel attractive may be at considerably more risk than a woman who believes she is all that and a bag of chips. In other words, solid self-esteem keeps a person from being vulnerable to approaches/expressed interest from members of the opposite sex. Good luck.




Very true, actually!

Just seems to be alot that need male approval or have Daddy issues and think home life and husband are boring.

They go out thinking to have fun not understanding they are actually targets and men in Night Clubs WILL try every trick you can imagine to get them. 


But there are ones that go just have a good time and go home. You can tell who they are, because they are usually gone by midnight.


----------



## J.R.Jefferis

jealoushubby said:


> Looking for some perspective here. When my wife goes out with her other married female friends for dinner and/or drinks she usually gets dresses up and looks pretty damn hot. She says its only for her friends and that women are different like that and basically dress up for each other and not to impress guys at the bar. Is this normally true ladies? I gotta believe part of it is wanting to get hit on by guys but she denies it.
> 
> My 2nd question is what are other married peoples opinion on flirting. What I mean is if the wife is out and fllirts a little with a cute bartender or their group accepts a free drink or 2 from a group of guys who know they are married. Should that be ok if she comes home tipsy and a bit horny? Part of me wants to just stop overthinking it and just enjoy the hot sex that follows but the jealous guy in me always wants to know every detail. I am confident she has never cheated on me and never would but her being hit on and possibly flirting back bothers me some. Especially if she is drinking bc I know she gets more expressive and definately hornier when she drinks. Help!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


In principle I wouldn't be worried since she does come home to you and is eager to make love. If she came home and had no interest in having sex, then maybe there would be cause for concern. I don't know your wife's situation but many women that are stuck at home with kids can go crazy unless they are able to get out and let their hair down every once and a while. It's only natural. Hanging with the girls is also something that is very therapeutic for many women, so rather than fighting that, you should encourage it as a way of helping her stay emotionally balanced. In any case, be aware of any warning signs, but right now it just seems like a good way for her to unwind.

JR


----------



## Grayson

Santa said:


> Very true, actually!
> 
> Just seems to be alot that need male approval or have Daddy issues and think home life and husband are boring.
> 
> They go out thinking to have fun not understanding they are actually targets and men in Night Clubs WILL try every trick you can imagine to get them.
> 
> 
> But there are ones that go just have a good time and go home. You can tell who they are, because they are usually gone by midnight.


That's a fair answer. Would it be safe to assume that your particular club is one that generally caters more towards singles (or people acting single)? Like I've said a few times, I don't dispute the existence of such establishments. I just don't agree that all bars and clubs ARE such establishments, nor that going into one necessarily means that one is up to no good.

Edit: I thought I was grabbing your prior response to me regarding the club you work at. Regardless, I maintain that they were both fair answers. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## that_girl

Gay bars are AWESOME for GNO. I have done that. lolol. One of my "girls" was a gay man.


----------



## MrK

And if you think a GNO at a gay bar is OK, I'll tell you about the research I've done on that also.


----------



## Grayson

MrK said:


> And if you think a GNO at a gay bar is OK, I'll tell you about the research I've done on that also.


Good grief, MrK!

Under what circumstances do you think it IS appropriate for women to gather and socialize? That'll probably be the shorter list.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## that_girl

MrK said:


> And if you think a GNO at a gay bar is OK, I'll tell you about the research I've done on that also.


LMAO! Please spare me. I am sorry your wife has loose boundaries but not all women are like her. My gay bar night was awesome and I met my gay friend's boyfriend.  I don't dance, so ...I just watch.

When I go out with a friend or two, it's to catch up...not flirt with other men.  I don't drink in public. I get drunk at home. Is that wrong too? Maybe my husband will take advantage of my drunken ass at home :rofl: Besides, my husband is WAY sexier than any man I've ever seen! No one compares.

But you'll argue anything. Maybe it should be illegal for women to leave the house at all.


----------



## that_girl

Grayson said:


> Good grief, MrK!
> 
> Under what circumstances do you think it IS appropriate for women to gather and socialize? That'll probably be the shorter list.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


NEVER! All women should be chained to the house at all times! :rofl: Dang.

Maybe I should quit my job because workplace affairs are SO COMMON! and I work with male teachers....OH NO! I'm just a silly woman who doesn't have her own brain or high standards for myself.  I just fall in love with every man that I think wants me. Maybe my male boss thinks about me in bed! I should quit.  Give me a break.


----------



## Grayson

that_girl said:


> NEVER! All women should be chained to the house at all times! :rofl: Dang.
> 
> Maybe I should quit my job because workplace affairs are SO COMMON! and I work with male teachers....OH NO! I'm just a silly woman who doesn't have her own brain or high standards for myself.  I just fall in love with every man that I think wants me. Maybe my male boss thinks about me in bed! I should quit.  Give me a break.


I hear ya.

I mean, I'm with you in that I'm sorry MrK's wife decided to cross the line. I'm sorry mine did, too. But, if the circumstances of the betrayal determine what is and isn't appropriate for women, then my wife's would preclude women from working, as both her EA and PA were with co-workers.

If a GNO is a sticking point for an individual, that's where that wacky notion I mentioned earlier comes in. If there are reasonable concerns, that's something for each couple to work out and reach mutually agreeable decisions on. But to instead say that, because of one's own experience and anecdotal evidence that will certainly be skewed, that all GNO's (or BNO's for that matter) are inherently trouble is just plain inaccurate.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Santa

J.R.Jefferis said:


> In principle I wouldn't be worried since she does come home to you and is eager to make love. If she came home and had no interest in having sex, then maybe there would be cause for concern. I don't know your wife's situation but many women that are stuck at home with kids can go crazy unless they are able to get out and let their hair down every once and a while. It's only natural. Hanging with the girls is also something that is very therapeutic for many women, so rather than fighting that, you should encourage it as a way of helping her stay emotionally balanced. In any case, be aware of any warning signs, but right now it just seems like a good way for her to unwind.
> 
> JR




I agree 100%

I would just not recommend a nightclub/strip club. 

Have fun but make wise choices in doing so.


----------



## Santa

Grayson said:


> That's a fair answer. Would it be safe to assume that your particular club is one that generally caters more towards singles (or people acting single)? Like I've said a few times, I don't dispute the existence of such establishments. I just don't agree that all bars and clubs ARE such establishments, nor that going into one necessarily means that one is up to no good.
> 
> Edit: I thought I was grabbing your prior response to me regarding the club you work at. Regardless, I maintain that they were both fair answers.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




I have worked in the industry for over 25 yrs and have never seen a "nightclub" geared towards married people AT ALL. 

The whole thing is meant to escape reality and sex, to be honest. Lights, lasers, fog machines, mirrors on walls and even the beat pumping music is meant to heighten the sexual energy actually. We take them up (faster) and slow them down (slower) to grind, etc. 

One of the biggest songs when I first started was "S&M! Bring ya d*cksucking friends" and one of the last when I got out was "Show me your p*ssy" by Lords of Acid. Its what the club projects subliminally. The alcohol, lights etc, all lend to that message being driven. Thus the term "meat market". 


I have NEVER seen a marriage friendly night club ever. 


Sure regular bars, etc may be but night clubs are built on the premise of sex and selling sex makes lots of money. The girls come to dance and guys will go wherever the hottest girls are regardless if they are playing Polka music. Fact.

Our job was to entice and en-trance the women so they dance sexy and show sex appeal all over the place. Then the guys come like hunters looking for prey. Mix in alcohol and a fun euphoric non stop feeling and presto. **** happens. 

Bascially there are hundreds of thousands of dollars spent by club owners to put women in a state of getting naked. Because if they do, the men and money will follow in abundance. 

It's an attack on the female senses, so to speak. 


Doesnt mean that every married woman that steps foot in a nightclub will do such things but I would say the odds are about 1 to 2 out of every married GNO group will by the end of the night/morning. Thats about norm. Not always but more than you would think actually. The odds are actually not good, really.


----------



## Santa

that_girl said:


> Gay bars are AWESOME for GNO. I have done that. lolol. One of my "girls" was a gay man.



Yes thats a safe place for a GNO to dance to have fun, no doubt. Some of the best DJ's too actually and girls tend to have a blast as well.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Santa said:


> Our job was to entice and en-trance the women so they dance sexy and show sex appeal all over the place. Then the guys come like hunters looking for prey. Mix in alcohol and a fun euphoric non stop feeling and presto. **** happens.
> 
> Bascially there are hundreds of thousands of dollars spent by club owners to put women in a state of getting naked. Because if they do, the men and money will follow in abundance. .




:iagree::iagree::iagree:

These are the ingredients;
1] Ladies Free
2]Good Music
3]Men spending money on alcohol
4]Ladies getting drunk
5]Ladies loose inhibitions

...and the rest is history.

Good for singles.
Definitely not Marriage friendly....
Every playa knows the easiest place to pick up women is in a club. Fast movements, no long,drawn out boring talking .Everything in a club is primed for sex and money. Men get a chance at sex,club makes money. Women are just the " collateral damage."

If a married woman wants to get drunk, loose her inhibitions and throw caution to the wind,then the best person to do it with in a club , is your husband or boyfriend.


----------



## Santa

Caribbean Man said:


> Good for singles.
> Definitely not Marriage friendly....
> 
> *If a married woman wants to get drunk, loose her inhibitions and throw caution to the wind,then the best person to do it with in a club , is your husband or boyfriend*.




Exactly. Anything else IS playing with fire. Just because it hasnt burned you yet, doesnt mean it won't or it ever will.


----------



## 381917

Santa said:


> Yes thats a safe place for a GNO to dance to have fun, no doubt. Some of the best DJ's too actually and girls tend to have a blast as well.


I used to be best friends with a gay man. He moved away a few months after I met my husband. I really miss him  Anyway, I loved going to gay bars with him. But, I _always_ got hit on by lesbians, met quite a few straight couples looking for a girl, and met a few straight guys who I guess were drug there with groups of girls and their gay friends. So, gay bars, in my experience, were not total safe zones. The atmosphere was always very sexual.

Anyway. every woman who goes out dancing for GNO is not looking to hook up. When I was single, I went out like that 3 or 4+ times a week. The only man I ever met in a bar and slept with was the man I ended up marrying. And I didn't even sleep with him that night. I was in my late teens/very early 20's with nothing like a marriage vow on my conscience to hold me back. If I was ever going to tramp out, I think I would have done it then. There is no chance that I would ever mess with a guy I met on GNO at a bar. I know that there are other women like me.


----------



## that_girl

Santa, the club scene you described sounds repulsive! 

Turn the lights on in the club and it all looks sooo pathetic. Even for the single people.


----------



## Santa

that_girl said:


> Santa, the club scene you described sounds repulsive!
> 
> Turn the lights on in the club and it all looks sooo pathetic. Even for the single people.


I agree and its top scale major cities from coast to coast. 

The movie "Night at the Roxbury" isnt far from truth. Sad really. It was great money but will make you lose your faith in humanity for sure.

Glad I dont have to make a living that way anymore!!!


----------



## that_girl

:rofl: Night at the Roxbury! That's how i dance! Like a moron.

Thankfully my husband and I have grown up and feel no need to go to those types of places. We have some dives we frequent, but it's not very sexy when sitting next to Grampa and Gramma at the bar while they pick out a cheesy song to sing


----------



## Santa

that_girl said:


> :rofl: Night at the Roxbury! That's how i dance! Like a moron.
> 
> Thankfully my husband and I have grown up and feel no need to go to those types of places. We have some dives we frequent, but it's not very sexy when *sitting next to Grampa and Gramma at the bar while they pick out a cheesy song to sing *


That actually sounds fun!! 

:smthumbup:


----------



## CandieGirl

Grayson said:


> So a wedding ring should eliminate all interest in dancing?
> 
> Before we met, my wife would go country dancing with her bf and/or friends.
> Me, I a) cant stand country music and b) have no rhythm, and thus can't dance.
> 
> So, is it your position that if she wanted to go country dancing, we should divorce, since she should have stayed single if dancing holds any appeal to her?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Strip clubs a much different story than just 'dancing' Grayson....come on. You're much smarter than that, so am I, so please, don't insult your own intelligence by playing dumb.

You want dancing? Take a class together, attend the ballet, hell, go to your stupid dance clubs together...


----------



## CandieGirl

that_girl said:


> Gay bars are AWESOME for GNO. I have done that. lolol. One of my "girls" was a gay man.


:lol:

My father ran a gay bar in Montreal for a few years. Lotsa laughs. Great times!


----------



## Grayson

Santa said:


> I have worked in the industry for over 25 yrs and have never seen a "nightclub" geared towards married people AT ALL.
> 
> The whole thing is meant to escape reality and sex, to be honest. Lights, lasers, fog machines, mirrors on walls and even the beat pumping music is meant to heighten the sexual energy actually. We take them up (faster) and slow them down (slower) to grind, etc.
> 
> One of the biggest songs when I first started was "S&M! Bring ya d*cksucking friends" and one of the last when I got out was "Show me your p*ssy" by Lords of Acid. Its what the club projects subliminally. The alcohol, lights etc, all lend to that message being driven. Thus the term "meat market".
> 
> 
> I have NEVER seen a marriage friendly night club ever.
> 
> 
> Sure regular bars, etc may be but night clubs are built on the premise of sex and selling sex makes lots of money. The girls come to dance and guys will go wherever the hottest girls are regardless if they are playing Polka music. Fact.
> 
> Our job was to entice and en-trance the women so they dance sexy and show sex appeal all over the place. Then the guys come like hunters looking for prey. Mix in alcohol and a fun euphoric non stop feeling and presto. **** happens.
> 
> Bascially there are hundreds of thousands of dollars spent by club owners to put women in a state of getting naked. Because if they do, the men and money will follow in abundance.
> 
> It's an attack on the female senses, so to speak.
> 
> 
> Doesnt mean that every married woman that steps foot in a nightclub will do such things but I would say the odds are about 1 to 2 out of every married GNO group will by the end of the night/morning. Thats about norm. Not always but more than you would think actually. The odds are actually not good, really.


Sounds like there's an untapped market there, then. If marriage does not mean the end of one's enjoyment of dancing, and existing dance clubs are not "marriage friendly," then what is a married person or couple who wants to dance to do?

Don't know how BIG that market is, but it must exist.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Grayson

CandieGirl said:


> .
> You want dancing? Take a class together, attend the ballet, hell, go to your stupid dance clubs together...


*I* don't want dancing. "Two left feet" doesn't begin to describe me. Add in that I don't enjoy dancing, and, well...tell me again why I should go? We did look into taking a class...never heard back from the studio, so I guess they didn't want our business. Go to the ballet? Really? *Watching* one form of dance will really satisfy someone's enjoyment of actively engaging in another form of dance? I suppose in the same way that watching Guy Fieri eat a great looking burger on tv will satisfy my hunger. And which "stupid dance clubs" are mine, exactly? As I've said...I don't dance, so why would I want to go to a dance club?

So I ask again...are you suggesting that a wedding ring should kill any and all enjoyment of dancing? Or that if one is married and still enjoys dancing but their partner does not, that they should not have married?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## that_girl

What kind of dance does your spouse like doing without you?


----------



## Santa

Grayson said:


> Sounds like there's an untapped market there, then. If marriage does not mean the end of one's enjoyment of dancing, and existing dance clubs are not "marriage friendly," then what is a married person or couple who wants to dance to do?
> 
> Don't know how BIG that market is, but it must exist.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



If there was money to made and big enough demograph to make money off of, there would be married friendly night clubs. 

They do market research etc. They dont spend hundreds of thousands "hoping" people will come. 

Sure there are some married people that go out to nightclubs but its a very small percentage, Im sure. 


Again, if there was enough of a demograph and money to be made, they would exist. 

These are business men and they dont care who comes to the club and they would make a club for midgets if there was enough of a demand for it.


----------



## Acorn

Grayson said:


> So I ask again...are you suggesting that a wedding ring should kill any and all enjoyment of dancing? Or that if one is married and still enjoys dancing but their partner does not, that they should not have married?


This is a strawman... my wife feels uncomfortable when I go to Hooters, is she suggesting that a wedding ring should kill any and all enjoyment of wings?


----------



## Acorn

This is slightly random, but I amusingly play out a scene in my head where a wife comes home from a GNO after some combination of dancing/grinding with other men, getting drunk, having men pay for her drinks, having players hitting on her/feeling her up/flirting all night, and enjoying the sizzle of the sexualized single atmosphere. 

She finds out that while she was out her husband was looking at sexy pictures on line. Of course, the pictures could not grind him, hit on him, flirt with him, and obviously have no interest in him, but she feels uncomfortable with porn use for all the normal reasons and he's expected to never do it again. 

Makes no sense to me.


----------



## lovelygirl

Grayson said:


> That's a fair answer. Would it be safe to assume that your particular club is one that generally caters more towards singles (or people acting single)? Like I've said a few times, I don't dispute the existence of such establishments. I just don't agree that all bars and clubs ARE such establishments, nor that going into one necessarily means that one is up to no good.


Agreed. Not all clubs are "dangerous" for married people and it all comes down to how every individual behaves and how much self-control they have over certain situations where they are considered as "prey" .
You cannot blame the club, you just blame the people in the club. 
Blaming the club is like blaming the internet because children watch porn.


----------



## Santa

Grayson said:


> So I ask again...are you suggesting that a wedding ring should kill any and all enjoyment of dancing? Or that if one is married and still enjoys dancing but their partner does not, that they should not have married?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Oldies clubs have lots of married couples that just love to dance. Maybe house parties, also lots of bars around resort areas cater to older married people, but these are not nightclubs. 

To be honest, nightclubs really cater to the under 30 crowd period. If your over 30 and there dancing, I promise, you would be looked and laughed at as the old geezer that just cant let go unless you are way up the MILF scale. And yes I am much older than 30!!  THATS another reason not to go for me. Let the kids have their single fun. Dont be the middle aged person trying to hang on and pretend to be in your 20's still on the dance floor. Its normally very obvious and no, they are not laughing with you because its so fun. 

I think the idea of finding "youth" again or feeling "young" again, is what gets alot of the married women in trouble and marriage in divorce. She thinks she is "back" on the scene and feeling "young and fun" and falls into the false reality of thinking leaving her husband and family and following the Yellow Brick Road to fun is going to get her back to good times and encouraged by younger co-workers, etc, is a opportunity to go back and be young and ends up destroying her whole family for this false reality, only to find the real reality is, she cant keep up and cant really compete with 23 yr old hard bodies and the longer she tries to exist in that world, the more pathetic she looks to them and everyone else. 



Just my opinion, of course I could be wrong.


----------



## Santa

lovelygirl said:


> You cannot blame the club, you just blame the people in the club.
> Blaming the club, It's like blaming the internet because children watch porn.



I dont think you can blame the people either. I dont blame the alligator if the bird flys into its cage...


----------



## Grayson

that_girl said:


> What kind of dance does your spouse like doing without you?


As of yet, she hasn't. However, before we met, she enjoyed country dancing and would go with her bf and/or friends & (female) cousins. Since we've been together, friends have suggested they go do so, as it's been a long while since they have. Since I don't enjoy dancing OR country music OR drinking/drunk people, she knows that me going along would be a living hell for me. I've told her to have fun, as long as she "behaves" (for want of a better term). The plans have never come together, and since a major falling out with her sister and "queen bee" cousin, if any plans have been made in the past year, she hasn't been invited.

So, at this point, it's academic, but I see no reason to say that my dislike of the activity should preclude her taking part IF she understands and respects boundaries and UNLESS she chooses not to go without me.

Not restricting the matter to dancing, there are times she's gone out with friends without me and times she's declined unless I go along.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## that_girl

My favorite dive. I think it seats 20 people :rofl:

And yea, I blame the people in the club...unlike alligators, we have taken vows of marriage. And we have brains to make choices that honor those vows.


----------



## Grayson

Santa said:


> Oldies clubs have lots of married couples that just love to dance. Maybe house parties, also lots of bars around resort areas cater to older married people, but these are not nightclubs.


I say this with tongue partially in cheek, but....

"OLDIES clubs?!?!" What if someone prefers newer music? Granted, for most people, their musical likes and dislikes are pretty well cemented by their mid-20's at the latest. But some people continue to listen to and discover new music all their lives. Sorry if it sounds like I'm being contrary for its own sake, but even before hitting the big four-oh, I thought it was a bit presumptuous to assume that someone over a certain age won't like a certain kind of music.



> Let the kids have their single fun. Dont be the middle aged person trying to hang on and pretend to be in your 20's still on the dance floor. Its normally very obvious and no, they are not laughing with you because its so fun.


I guess I don't understand, from a logical standpoint, why it has to be one or the other. Who's to say that someone in their 30's or 40's is out there "trying to hang on and pretending to be in their 20's?" What if they legitimately like the music, both listening and dancing to it? But, we're REALLY starting to digress here.



> Just my opinion, of course I could be wrong.


Ok, Dennis. ;-)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## unhappy351

I am really not a big fan of GNOs, but if they must happen I think whatever whatever goes on should as if the S was there. If you are going to dance go ahead dance but if some jack [email protected]@ starts grinding and dancing with you, shut it down right away. Walking on the street, standing in line at the store would you let some POS do that to you?
Dont let some guy buy you a drink, unless you SO is really ok with that. it just sends a bad signal to everyone involved. Really why do you think a stranger wants to buy you a drink? Again would you let a some guy buy your groceries at the store for you? 
If you are going on a GNO I dont think you should be going out looking for male attention, but if your out, YOU are going to attract attention of one form or another, a look , an offer to dance, an offered drink, an attempt at a conversation its all how you deal with that unwanted/wanted attention. Do you lead it on, do you shut it down before problems arise?
If your GNOing I really think you need to take into consideration your SO's feelings, whether its 3x a week or 1 a year and if not maybe you should not have that SO.
Thanks for letting me vent.


----------



## Grayson

unhappy351 said:


> Really why do you think a stranger wants to buy you a drink?


Women know exactly why strangers want to buy them drinks. Those strangers should also be aware of at least one of the reasons that drink is accepted: she just wants a free drink.



> Again would you let a some guy buy your groceries at the store for you?
> .


Would I let some stranger offer my wife to buy our groceries with no other obligation? Hell to the yes! That's $100-$200 we'd save.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CandieGirl

that_girl said:


> My favorite dive. I think it seats 20 people :rofl:
> 
> And yea, I blame the people in the club...unlike alligators, we have taken vows of marriage. And we have brains to make choices that honor those vows.


LOL. I had a place like that; It never even had a women's washroom until about 3 years ago! There was a chain that said 'women' that you'd have to hang across the doorway if you were in there! The men would have to wait! :rofl:

I went back last year, used the women's washroom, saw the old chain with the 'women' sign hanging off it, and stole it. So the 'women' sign is now in my basement by the pool table. LMAO!!!


----------

