# Kissing......



## Smartnstuff (Mar 21, 2013)

Would you all consider a kiss to be TO intimate or a form of cheating? Or something you could forgive?


----------



## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

Depends are we talking about one time thing or Trickle-truth


----------



## Smartnstuff (Mar 21, 2013)

What is Trickle-Truth... And it was twice well mostly 1..


----------



## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

Trickle Truth (TT) - the act of minimizing actions during an affair. The WS will often only admit after many denials, that information that he/she thinks their BS knows about. The truth only slowly trickles out after each new discovery that the BS makes. Each time TT happens, it is considered another D-Day, sending the BS into yet another agonizing incident of pain. For example: A WS will often say their AP is just a friend, then the BS will discover more. Only when confronted with more evidence or further questioning, the WS may only admit to hugging and/or kissing, then when confronted with more evidence or questioning, admit to having oral sex, or a single sexual encounter, when in reality, it was more than a single sexual encounter. *WSs will often say the sex was bad.* lol more BS


----------



## Smartnstuff (Mar 21, 2013)

This is VERY interesting because I didn't find out for a while about the incident when I did I asked details that were left out.... it was like a trickling effect. And he claims it was because he didn't want to hurt me further and was scared I would leave. But swears up and down it was just that nothing more. I mean sex wise.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Kissing is cheat speak for intercourse.

Even if you DO believe him it's cheating. It's physical, sexual touch. It's cheating.


----------



## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Smartnstuff said:


> This is VERY interesting because I didn't find out for a while about the incident when I did I asked details that were left out.... it was like a trickling effect. And he claims it was because he didn't want to hurt me further and was scared I would leave. But swears up and down it was just that nothing more. I mean sex wise.


That's part of the script. First deny, then TT the details and blamshift and cover their story, as they did it because or for the BS to protect them. Eventually more will possibly come out, and new excuses will be made to cover and deal with those lies. 

Lies of omission hurt and are just as bad as other "told" lies.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Smartnstuff said:


> This is VERY interesting because I didn't find out for a while about the incident when I did I asked details that were left out.... it was like a trickling effect. And he claims it was because he didn't want to hurt me further and was scared I would leave. But swears up and down it was just that nothing more. I mean sex wise.


I call bullpucky.

Has he proven this to you? Do you have complete and unrestricted, on demand access to his emails, phone, bank accounts? Does he give it to you with a smile? Does he answer all your questions earnestly and in detail? Does he treat you like gold and act exceedingly sorry for what he did? Have you and he been tested for STD's?


----------



## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

Then he is probably lying to you.

Is he doing the following 


1. story always changes


2.He won't look you in the eye


3.The details are off


4.He's done it before

If so there may be more to this then a kiss


----------



## Smartnstuff (Mar 21, 2013)

I did go over ALL his phone records. He said that he called her a couple days later to apologize for what happened and let her know that it will never happen again and how he loves me and so on. BUT and I mean BUT if that was the case WHY would she try again when they were drinking?


----------



## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

It depends on the context of the kiss. If my partner kissed another man in a romantic and/or sexually attracted to one another kind of way I would most definately see that as cheating. A kiss on the cheek greeting between friends would not concern me in the least.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Smartnstuff said:


> I did go over ALL his phone records.


On his phone or on the bill? If on his phone, before or after he had a chance to delete everything?

What is his attitude like?


----------



## Smartnstuff (Mar 21, 2013)

No this Kiss he claims was to figure out if he wanted to be with me or not. If he could go ahead with this and feel that he should move on supposedly NOTHING to do with her...


----------



## Smartnstuff (Mar 21, 2013)

I actually was like a psycho and looked over the bill all texts and calls lol.


----------



## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Depends on the kiss too. Is it a French friend kiss on the neck, or a French kiss with deep tongue? Need more details. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. 

For the most part, in my relationship, it would NOT be OK. But if I were in some countries (like France), it would be normal and even expected.


----------



## thebadguy (Dec 7, 2012)

You started writing on here a year ago. Last I saw (having just read your first thread) he was taking pictures of himself without a shirt with his phone.

You are back because your gut is telling you stuff doesn't add up.

My gut says your husband is still doing a lot you don't know and would not approve of him doing.

Check your cell provider's online usage. You want to see if he is messaging or calling 1 number a LOT.

Check his phone for messages.

I would bet he is still in the original affair with the original woman.


----------



## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Just read the updates, it was hidden from you. That's not a good thing, as people have pointed out. But I still don't have enough information. Sounds like you don't, either.


----------



## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

Smartnstuff said:


> No this Kiss he claims was to figure out if he wanted to be with me or not. If he could go ahead with this and feel that he should move on supposedly NOTHING to do with her...


If my partner was so uncertain of their desire to be with me that they needed to test it out with a third party I'd tell them not to let the door hit them on the way out. I'm not a charity case. Either you want to be with me or you don't.


----------



## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Smartnstuff said:


> No this Kiss he claims was to figure out if he wanted to be with me or not. If he could go ahead with this and feel that he should move on supposedly NOTHING to do with her...


Whaaa??? Haven't heard this one before. Calling big-time BS on him. :bsflag:

Are you married?


----------



## Smartnstuff (Mar 21, 2013)

It was for sure a make out session...


----------



## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

Smartnstuff said:


> I did go over ALL his phone records. He said that he called her a couple days later to apologize for what happened and let her know that it will never happen again and how he loves me and so on. BUT and I mean BUT if that was the case *WHY would she try again when they were drinking*?




If it was just a kiss then I would not worry too much about it *BUT* you should make absolutely sure it was just a kiss and what he's thinking was.


----------



## thebadguy (Dec 7, 2012)

Does the Other Woman's Husband know about "the kissing"? Someone else already said it...kissing is cheater speak for intercourse.


----------



## Smartnstuff (Mar 21, 2013)

I think its BS to. When he tells me this I was like OH really and thats why your hands were on the A$$ because it was all for the future of us PALEASE! and yes we are still married.... I think that I have a ton of anger still pent up and yes we have done counseling.


----------



## Smartnstuff (Mar 21, 2013)

Yes everyone knows about the kiss I was the last one to know. She told her spouse right away. NOT my spouse because "He didn't want to lose me"


----------



## broder62 (Aug 17, 2012)

MaritimeGuy said:


> It depends on the context of the kiss. If my partner kissed another man in a romantic and/or sexually attracted to one another kind of way I would most definately see that as cheating. A kiss on the cheek greeting between friends would not concern me in the least.


The act doesn't always represent the heart. You can look at someone and cheat.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I just looked at your previous threads and all I have to say is

*WAKE THE HELL UP*

He has been cheating on you for years. Every time he gets caught he gives you some completely bullsh!t excuse that you swallow hook, line and sinker.


----------



## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Smartnstuff said:


> No this Kiss he claims was to figure out if he wanted to be with me or not. If he could go ahead with this and feel that he should move on supposedly NOTHING to do with her...


This is even worse that he was "drunk and kissed another person".

SERIOUSLY?!?!

Your response should be "If kissing another woman is the test to see if you want to be with me....you're not committed to me. I'll make this easy" and dump him.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

xakulax said:


> If it was just a kiss then I would not worry too much about it


HOLY CRAP I just spewed coffee all over my monitor. What the hell kind of advice is this?!?!?!?!


----------



## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Can you imagine what he's going to do when he's trying to figure out if he want's children with you?


----------



## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

A person who's truly engaged in the relationship will work on the relationship...with you. The only third parties should be counsellors helping you to communicate better with one another. 

In my mind once a person has mentally crossed that line with someone new whether it be a touch, an invitation, a kiss..whatever...they've abandoned the relationship. A Pandora's box has been opened that I'm not sure will ever be fully closed again.


----------



## Smartnstuff (Mar 21, 2013)

Its not that easy we have kids... And if I was to tell you guys the entire story you would omg just burst. YOu are right I am a idiot...


----------



## Smartnstuff (Mar 21, 2013)

Let's just say the only reason I know the entire story is cause we were all VERY good friends.


----------



## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

Smartnstuff said:


> Its not that easy we have kids... And if I was to tell you guys the entire story you would omg just burst. YOu are right I am a idiot...


I don't think you're an idiot. I think you're lacking the confidence to stand up for yourself. I highly recommend you see a counsellor to help boost you self esteem. You don't have to accept being treated as a doormat...kids or no kids.


----------



## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

"Honey, I only had sex with her to see if your genitalia was a better fit for me than hers!"


----------



## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

You're not an idiot just human and we can misjudge a person's character

right now the only thing that matter is the truth


----------



## thebadguy (Dec 7, 2012)

Smartnstuff said:


> Its not that easy we have kids... And if I was to tell you guys the entire story you would omg just burst. YOu are right I am a idiot...


You are not an idiot. But this was never dealt with. It was swept under the rug and he will fight you tooth and nail to keep it that way. The big problem is...he is almost certainly still in an affair or multiple affairs at this very moment. I still say it is with the original woman and ongoing.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

You aren't an idiot. You just need to wake up and realize who you really married. Do you want your kids to grow up thinking that it's fine for a man to treat a woman the way you get treated?????? Don't use the kids as yet another excuse to ignore your husbands behaviour. Use them as your excuse to not put up with it any more.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

I'd be done. You need stimulation from someone else to figure out if I'm the one you want to be with? The doubt may happen, not talking with me or getting legitimate help is a no go.


----------



## Smartnstuff (Mar 21, 2013)

HOW and seriously how do you get the truth out of someone? And how do I confront all of this without him saying I don't want to re hash this we have been over it a MILLION times. 

I want to know the truth but will I ever really know the truth?


----------



## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Leave or accept, that's all you can do. You've been letting this go for years, all the counseling in the world won't save you. When someone KNOWS they can "have their cake and it it too" why would they change with out a serious threat to their ideal?

Here's the thing even if they told you the 100% truth how would you know it was complete? You won't. This is why trust is always blown, even with successfully reconciled couples. You see it on this board everyday.


----------



## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Smartnstuff said:


> HOW and seriously how do you get the truth out of someone? And how do I confront all of this without him saying I don't want to re hash this we have been over it a MILLION times.
> 
> I want to know the truth but will I ever really know the truth?


If we knew the answer to this question we wouldn't be here. If I had this magic remedy that made them tell the truth and could sell it on the open market, I would make millions.

There is always sodium pentathal, if you know someone in the black ops!!


----------



## Smartnstuff (Mar 21, 2013)

I don't think he knows that I think he knows I will go... But then I think of little things and wonder. Man I think I really need to do some soul searching.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Smartnstuff said:


> HOW and seriously how do you get the truth out of someone? And how do I confront all of this without him saying I don't want to re hash this we have been over it a MILLION times.
> 
> I want to know the truth but will I ever really know the truth?


No you will never know the full truth.

You CAN find out as much as you can by installing a keylogger on his computer and snooping on his phone.

Also get tested for STDs. If you're positive, would that be proof enough for you?

Honestly, look back on your posts to us over the last year and tell me that you don't already know what's going on. You know, you're just scared to admit the truth. And that's normal. But now that your heads been yanked out of the sand, don't shove it back.


----------



## Smartnstuff (Mar 21, 2013)

Right now I just want to cry...... I just said to him the below.

I think that you are hiding things from me. I am not trying to start a fight I am just growing up and realizing things. And its interesting... Dame with the way you react when I ask you questions just how you react is questionable. 
He responds Holy $hit I do not have time for this. 


I then say yup that's what I thought maybe I just need a little soul searching. You my husband dont know how to be another half to someone. I will have to learn to accept or decline this.. Anyways I will talk when you wanna talk other then that it is what it is..


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Hope1964 is right as usual concerning your other threads. :smthumbup:


4 Years ago, your WH supposedly made out with a friend of yours, TWICE. It was much more than that I bet.
Both of you are 30 years old, yet you only have sex once a month. You know why? Because he might be getting it from someone else.
He supposedly works tons of overtime - Do you have access to his money or paystubs? Lots of "overtime" without seeing any paycheck increase is a huge red flag.
OW confessed to her husband? How do you know this? Did you get this information from him or did you verify this with someone else? I sugges you contact her husband to see if he really knows. This is a standard cheater tactic. They will tell their BS, that the OBS already knows about the affair or that the OBS doesn't care because they are having an affair of their own. This is to prevent YOU, the BS from exposing the affair and digging deeper.


----------



## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

Smartnstuff said:


> *HOW and seriously how do you get the truth out of someone? *And how do I confront all of this without him saying I don't want to re hash this we have been over it a MILLION times.
> 
> I want to know the truth but will I ever really know the truth?




Will there is waterboarding but that might be too extreme  


Polygraph test are one option another could be the 180. You know him better then we do what do you think would rattle his cage and force some honesty.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Don't engage him. Ignore him. Look up and do the 180. 

Also PLEASE read this thread from start to finish

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...e-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html#post430739


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Smartnstuff said:


> Right now I just want to cry...... I just said to him the below.
> 
> I think that you are hiding things from me. I am not trying to start a fight I am just growing up and realizing things. And its interesting... Dame with the way you react when I ask you questions just how you react is questionable.
> He responds Holy $hit I do not have time for this.
> ...


No remorse whatsoever, just rugsweeping.


----------



## Smartnstuff (Mar 21, 2013)

I did confirm with the other persons spouse.... The story is true.


----------



## thebadguy (Dec 7, 2012)

So...do you have access to check his phone records with your wireless carrier? 

Do you have access to his facebook account?

Start DOING. If he won't give you the truth, look for it!


----------



## Smartnstuff (Mar 21, 2013)

He does NOT have FB and he has a phone with work but I always check it... I just told him he needs to either sit and work and talk with me or move on. And that's the truth in any relationship.


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Can someone post weightlifter's surveilance post?

If you checked the phone records, he is likely to have a burner phone. In any case, have you put a var (voice activated recorder) in his car?


----------



## Smartnstuff (Mar 21, 2013)

Well his response was I will think about it when I wake up. I said don't bother. and his response ok... 

WOW... OMG wow... this is just pathetic.


----------



## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

Op your husband sounds like a real winner :scratchhead:


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

xakulax said:


> the 180.


The 180 is NOT for getting the truth out of someone. Not at all.


----------



## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Have you ever seen a flag that's been in the wind so long it's starting to shred? That's the image in my mind of your marriage. 

You're pointing at it saying hey, H, this is going bad. Let's take it down and fix it. And he's saying fix it yourself, I'm going to get out of this damned wind.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Smartnstuff said:


> Well his response was I will think about it when I wake up. I said don't bother. and his response ok...
> 
> WOW... OMG wow... this is just pathetic.


He is acting the same way he always has - why does this surprise you? you have NEVER handed him any consequences whatsoever for his actions. Ever. So why would he think at this point that you're going to do anything about it now?


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Smartnstuff said:


> I did confirm with the other persons spouse.... The story is true.


What story is true? And how do you know this? Did they provide you with evidence? Or are they just telling you what their lying cheating spouse told them?


----------



## Smartnstuff (Mar 21, 2013)

So what do I do at this point to let him know how serious I am I really want to fix this and find out truth and be open but what do I do I need help!. Do I ignore him when I get home? Go in and bug him? 

ADVISE PLEASE. right now I wanna punch his face.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

You MUST be willing to end it. You MUST. Otherwise he has that to hold over your head. Are you?


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Smartnstuff said:


> Right now I just want to cry...... I just said to him the below.
> 
> I think that you are hiding things from me. I am not trying to start a fight I am just growing up and realizing things. And its interesting... Dame with the way you react when I ask you questions just how you react is questionable.
> He responds Holy $hit I do not have time for this.
> ...





Smartnstuff said:


> I did confirm with the other persons spouse.... The story is true.


And what did the other spouse tell you specifically?


----------



## thebadguy (Dec 7, 2012)

Smartnstuff said:


> So what do I do at this point to let him know how serious I am I really want to fix this and find out truth and be open but what do I do I need help!. Do I ignore him when I get home? Go in and bug him?
> 
> ADVISE PLEASE. right now I wanna punch his face.


That would be a change in direction. That's for sure.

You need to gather info.
You need to read and implement the 180.
I think you should talk to the OWH again and see how things are going for him.


----------



## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

Op I have two questions first if it turns out to be only a kiss can you excepted that the second is based on his behavior do you believe he could do this again in the future and possibly have a full affair. If the answer is yes for the later then I think it time to reevaluate your marriage and take the necessary step to fix it or ended it.


----------



## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

You already know the truth. You are just denying it. Because it is easier for you than just leaving. You obviously have a huge fear that is stopping you from doing what you are fully aware of is your only option.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

xakulax said:


> Op I have two questions first if it turns out to be only a kiss can you excepted that the second is based on his behavior do you believe he could do this again in the future and possibly have a full affair. If the answer is yes for the later then I think it time to reevaluate your marriage and take the necessary step to fix it or ended it.


With all due respect, your posts in this thread are borderline destructive. I know you're trying to help, but there is NO such thing as 'only a kiss'. She's had that mentality for her entire marriage, and that's what's gotten her to this point. Also, if you would read her previous posts you would see that she is married to a totally non remorseful serial cheater. She doesn't believe he will do it again - she KNOWS he will.


----------



## Smartnstuff (Mar 21, 2013)

Man I don't think I can I mean I really love this man.. I just don't think I could unless I just had that in your face proof that he slept with someone. I don't see me without him.  but he can't continue this way.


----------



## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

Hope1964 said:


> With all due respect, your posts in this thread are *borderline destructive*. I know you're trying to help, but there is NO such thing as 'only a kiss'. She's had that mentality for her entire marriage, and that's what's gotten her to this point. Also, if you would read her previous posts you would see that she is married to a totally non remorseful serial cheater. She doesn't believe he will do it again - she KNOWS he will.



Really?????????


OP if you don't wont my advice or input I will gladly leave 


PS I love when people say no disrespect then say something disrespectful right after.


----------



## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

Boy I am sorry you are here. Pay attention to Lordmayhem and Hope. They are on the money with this one. The kids and your marriage, I am sure you do not want to believe the worst. I understand who would want this pain.

First even if it was just a kiss, if there is something you would not do or say to another person in the presence of your spouse then it is cheating! 

If you want to save your marriage then you have to be willing to end it. Throw him out file for a D. He needs to know you are serious and are not willing to take his crap. He needs to know you are a strong women that deserves better.

I am a big guy for R but cheaters do not snap out of there fog until it is all on the line.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Smartnstuff said:


> I did confirm with the other persons spouse.... The story is true.


What story is true? And how do you know this? Did they provide you with evidence? Or are they just telling you what their lying cheating spouse told them?



Smartnstuff said:


> Man I don't think I can I mean I really love this man.. I just don't think I could unless I just had that in your face proof that he slept with someone. I don't see me without him.  but he can't continue this way.


Three things then
1) Start the 180. Read the newbie link and find it and DO it.
2) Start snooping. Hire a PI if you must. You KNOW he's doing it. If you really require that proof then get it.
3) Get tested for STD's. Maybe he's given you one.

The only other thing you can do is schedule a polygraph, but I doubt that would work because he'll just refuse to take it and you'll still have no answers.


----------



## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

typically when a spouse says "We kissed", or "We only kissed", that is indeed cheater code for "WE HAD SEX". My wife said the same thing to me. I knew better. It was a long tedious battle to get the truth. I mean long. From 2011 till April 2013. She never ended the affair in 2011.

I knew better and that is why I did not let up on it. I would never do this again, the long drawn out fight for "the truth".

I don't know if it was only "a kiss", but I would say that in about 90% or greater of the cases it means "SEX".

How do you prove it? You may never prove it. And this will drive you crazy.

Hopefully he will slip up and you will find out the truth.


----------



## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

Hope1964 said:


> What story is true? And how do you know this? Did they provide you with evidence? Or are they just telling you what their lying cheating spouse told them?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Isn't that exactly what I recommend in my so called "borderline destructive" post :scratchhead:


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

xakulax said:


> Isn't that exactly what I recommend in my so called "borderline destructive" post :scratchhead:


You recommended the 180 as a way of getting the truth. It isn't. I did point that out in a post subsequent to yours. I have also pointed out that saying it's 'just a kiss' it's no big deal, which you have done twice, is exactly what's gotten her here in the first place.


----------



## Smartnstuff (Mar 21, 2013)

I don't know if I can handle the truth its a double edge sword... you want to know but then you don't want to bring a world of hurt. I know that he didn't have sex because she would have told her spouse who would NOT ever speak to my husband again. And they are still talking. This is why I know it was what it was. The thing I think he is lying about is that he wasn't attracted and it was the sole purpose of figuring out what he wants with us. THIS IS BS. I know this.. I really wanna say EFF men all together.


----------



## distraughtfromtexas (Apr 25, 2013)

So what are you prepared to do about it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Smartnstuff (Mar 21, 2013)

Great question I guess I need to be strong and go home make dinner and not talk unless he brings it up. I will wait until he talks until then I will not speak to him.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Smartnstuff said:


> Great question I guess I need to be strong and go home make dinner and not talk unless he brings it up. I will wait until he talks until then I will not speak to him.


DAMMIT you're sticking your head squarely back in the sand. You KNOW what he's been up to. You KNOW.

Read this list again.



lordmayhem said:


> 4 Years ago, your WH supposedly made out with a friend of yours, TWICE. It was much more than that I bet.
> Both of you are 30 years old, yet you only have sex once a month. You know why? Because he might be getting it from someone else.
> He supposedly works tons of overtime - Do you have access to his money or paystubs? Lots of "overtime" without seeing any paycheck increase is a huge red flag.
> OW confessed to her husband? How do you know this? Did you get this information from him or did you verify this with someone else? I sugges you contact her husband to see if he really knows. This is a standard cheater tactic. They will tell their BS, that the OBS already knows about the affair or that the OBS doesn't care because they are having an affair of their own. This is to prevent YOU, the BS from exposing the affair and digging deeper.


Have you read the newbie link? Do you know what the 180 is yet?


----------



## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

Hope1964 said:


> You recommended the 180 as a way of getting the truth. It isn't. I did point that out in a post subsequent to yours. I have also pointed out that saying it's 'just a kiss' it's no big deal, which you have done twice, is exactly what's gotten her here in the first place.




Hope1964 I don't wish to argue with you what I wish is for the op to gain some peace of mind and do whats best for her. If what you say is true about her past post and her husband is a serial cheater / narcissist then she needs to *wake up!!!! *and take aggressive stance otherwise this cycle will continue again and again.


----------



## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartnstuff 
Great question I guess I need to be strong and go home make dinner and not talk unless he brings it up. I will wait until he talks until then I will not speak to him.



OP, are you real? You remind me of a thread I just read. It's by imamess. The questions you ask are pointless due to the lack of interest you show in the answers and the fact you offer off the wall responses. The questions you ask and responses you give bear no meaning on reality.


----------



## lostmyreligion (Oct 18, 2013)

Smartnstuff said:


> I don't know if I can handle the truth its a double edge sword... you want to know but then you don't want to bring a world of hurt. I know that he didn't have sex because *she would have told her spouse* who would NOT ever speak to my husband again. And they are still talking. This is why I know it was what it was. The thing I think he is lying about is that he wasn't attracted and it was the sole purpose of figuring out what he wants with us. THIS IS BS. I know this.. I really wanna say EFF men all together.


How can you be sure of this?


----------



## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

WOW after reading some of the past post cycle will continue again and again. I think she comes here to vent rather then deal with the root of the problem aka her husband and i wouldn't be surprise if she is keep details about his behave from us to paint a more innocent mistake rather then the action of a serial cheater / narcissist. *As long people respond to her the cycle will continue * 



Op pleas if you are real and not a troll pleas here us and WAKE UP!!!


I will no longer respond to this poster tell there is change


----------



## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

OP Respectfully... As hard as the truth may be to hear, please understand that you cannot begin to heal until you find you way out of this state of purgatory. It is your decision, of course... we are only here to support you, regardless of the path you choose. Right now, your H is a cake eater, and you have pretty much given him the fork. Take it away from him! I wish you all the best.


----------



## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

I should not even respond, but I am, with a question. I understand more than you will ever know how hard it is to not want to leave a man that you really do love, and loved, for a very long time, especially a good love. 

You are 30, do you want to spend maybe the rest of your life living with this man the way he treats you?...because, a funny thing happens in life, believe it or not, it flies by...

~sammy


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

It flies by, you will blink and forty, fifty, sixty. A lot of counselors consider sex three times a month as a sexless marriage. At thirty? Omg. I believe all counselors would consider once a month as a sexless marriage.

Its amazing how difficult posting on women's threads seem to be. They almost never listen.


----------



## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

I've said many times in this forum you can't prove a negative. While it's possible to find proof of an affair you can never prove an affair didn't happen. Personally, I would not live with that doubt over my head. It wouldn't be fair to me and ironically it wouldn't be fair to the person I'm with either. 

The difficulty with this situation is that it's Smartnstuff who has the problem but it's her husband that has the solution. He doesn't have a problem. Aside from the odd uncomfortable question he's pretty much getting his cake and eating it too. Until he's held accountable for his actions he has no reason to do anything. The silent treatment serves his interests....not hers.


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Exactly under what legitimate premise would a marital partner have in the supplying of oral stimulating kisses to someone other than to their committed partner, except to perhaps prime the pump for for a little potential, self-serving sexual stimulation? And that's greatly whether their legitimate marital partner is privy to it or not!

Mama didn't exactly raise no Idgit here! Such activity, not only meets, but greatly surpasses the marked criteria for cheating, at least IMHO!*


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

If he kisses her friends, what does he do with women she does know when she's not around?

Did I miss the circumstances when the friend was kissed? Has this been explained?


----------



## Hemingway (Jul 19, 2013)

Sometimes it is too hard for you to accept it, but the truth shall prevail. Be strong and.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Anything involving tongues is cheating.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Smartnstuff (Mar 21, 2013)

OMG I am a person and I do believe that what he did was absolutely WRONG! I am not trying to avoid what is in my face at all I think that is all BS and I HATE IT. I am not hiding I am trying to fix this damn marriage.... I don't think that he is a serial cheater I think we were young stupid partied to much and it went south. I think that he is a typical man SORRY.. but really you guys I am here for support like all of you and yes I need to talk and vent to ppl in my shoes. Not this...


----------



## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

So what do you want, Smart? We've identified what the "masses" here think about it. Now what to do about it? If you just want to vent, that's cool. But people here who have been betrayed (I am one of them) have a much harsher view of these things as they tend to lead to worse things.


----------



## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

Smartnstuff said:


> OMG I am a person and I do believe that what he did was absolutely WRONG! I am not trying to avoid what is in my face at all I think that is all BS and I HATE IT. I am not hiding I am trying to fix this damn marriage.... I don't think that he is a serial cheater I think we were young stupid partied to much and it went south.* I think that he is a typical man SORRY*.. but really you guys I am here for support like all of you and yes I need to talk and vent to ppl in my shoes. Not this...




Sorry but i'm a man and i know how to treat a woman with respect the problem is your husband does not he has shone you ZERO respect the longer you don't do something about it the worse it will get stop trying to rationalize his behavior and make a stand.


You don't sound like stupid person why are you fighting this ?


----------



## thebadguy (Dec 7, 2012)

Smartnstuff said:


> OMG I am a person and I do believe that what he did was absolutely WRONG! I am not trying to avoid what is in my face at all I think that is all BS and I HATE IT. I am not hiding I am trying to fix this damn marriage.... I don't think that he is a serial cheater I think we were young stupid partied to much and it went south. I think that he is a typical man SORRY.. but really you guys I am here for support like all of you and yes I need to talk and vent to ppl in my shoes. Not this...


The opinions and advice of the folks here are generally on target. Some are bitter and sound that way. There will be more who post that sound that way but are really trying to give honest advice from an experienced point of view.

The basic summary of what most have said, are:

- Talk to the other husband directly and candidly. 
- Investigate your husband's current behavior to see if you find hints as to why he is not "in" your marriage.
- Start strengthening yourself by implementing the 180.

I'm sorry you are here. We are all sorry you are here. 

You ARE a smart woman. You need and deserve the truth. Your husband has not given it to you and that is evident in his behavior.


----------



## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

It's always easier for those of us who don't have an emotional stake in it to give advice. You're living it so it's not so simple. 

I don't think anyone's trying to do anything but support/empower you although it may not come across that way.


----------



## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Smartnstuff said:


> OMG I am a person and I do believe that what he did was absolutely WRONG! I am not trying to avoid what is in my face at all I think that is all BS and I HATE IT. I am not hiding I am trying to fix this damn marriage.... I don't think that he is a serial cheater I think we were young stupid partied to much and it went south. I think that he is a typical man SORRY.. but really you guys I am here for support like all of you and yes I need to talk and vent to ppl in my shoes. Not this...


He is a serial cheater. And you are the only person in your marriage.

He reminds me of a man I once went out with. Only a compulsive liar and cheater would give the explanations he had given to you. His explanations are not coming from a normal person. You are not dealing with a normal person grounded in any normal reality. You are his puppet and he is playing you like a fiddle.


----------



## Smartnstuff (Mar 21, 2013)

Ok so here is the deal. I am going to go home and say I want it all or nothing I don't care how uncomfortable it is for you I have to know... I want to know why the hell he REALLY kissed her and I don't want to hear I was drunk. Her a$$ kissed him the first time and he kissed her the second for a reason. I am sorry you are right it was a dumb A$$ excuse and it had nothing to do with me or drinking it was him either A being attracted B because she showed interest and he is a man with a ego boost. or C he is just a straight out cheater. but either way I deserve to know or he needs to leave my life. I do not want to be played a fool more then I already have. I didn't know ANY of this until a year later all of them knew but me! and after I went through his phone records I seen he called her 3 days after the kiss. SUPPOSEDLY saying sorry he loves me that was a mistake BLAH BLAH BLAH... I am VERY curious if that was really the convo. So no I don't want to stay in a loveless, serial, sexless and so forth marriage. I WANT ANSWERS and then I will decide what to do.

But thank you for all of your feedback and I am truly sorry that we are all in here all talking about what our spouses have done to us.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

So you are prepared to kick him out when he tells you it's none of your business? And when he refuses to leave you are prepared to file for D?


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Where did these kisses take place, where were you? Who else was there at the time?

Who is "all of them" that knew?


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Hope1964 said:


> So you are prepared to kick him out when he tells you it's none of your business? And when he refuses to leave you are prepared to file for D?


Something short of filing for divorce is to go online and download a divorce packet for your state. People use these when they don't want a lawyer involved except to look over the paper work for your protection. You may have to pick up the packet at your county courthouse.

Make sure he sees the packet. You can start filling out the paperwork. He needs to believe you will divorce him.


----------



## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

Smartnstuff said:


> OMG I am a person and I do believe that what he did was absolutely WRONG! I am not trying to avoid what is in my face at all I think that is all BS and I HATE IT. I am not hiding I am trying to fix this damn marriage.... I don't think that he is a serial cheater I think we were young stupid partied to much and it went south. I think that he is a typical man SORRY.. but really you guys I am here for support like all of you and yes I need to talk and vent to ppl in my shoes. Not this...


Sorry typical man. No most men do not send shirtless pictures to other women, make up stories where they are at and in 31 years of marriage I have not kissed another women. Most men do not cheat. so maybe take a better look at what you are working with now.


----------



## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

1. He is not a typical man. He is a typical twat.
2. You won't get answers. Only more crap and more heartache. 

What do you want from life? Start from there and move forward.

ETA, if you want a husband, go and find one. You don't have one right now.


----------



## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

Smartnstuff said:


> Ok so here is the deal. I am going to go home and say I want it all or nothing I don't care how uncomfortable it is for you I have to know... I want to know why the hell he REALLY kissed her and I don't want to hear I was drunk. Her a$$ kissed him the first time and he kissed her the second for a reason. I am sorry you are right it was a dumb A$$ excuse and it had nothing to do with me or drinking it was him either A being attracted B because she showed interest and he is a man with a ego boost. or C he is just a straight out cheater. but either way I deserve to know or he needs to leave my life. I do not want to be played a fool more then I already have. I didn't know ANY of this until a year later all of them knew but me! and after I went through his phone records I seen he called her 3 days after the kiss. SUPPOSEDLY saying sorry he loves me that was a mistake BLAH BLAH BLAH... I am VERY curious if that was really the convo. So no I don't want to stay in a loveless, serial, sexless and so forth marriage. I WANT ANSWERS and then I will decide what to do.
> 
> But thank you for all of your feedback and I am truly sorry that we are all in here all talking about what our spouses have done to us.



I think the op is starting to wake up it's time to put action to words and get the truth don't be afraid to kick his a$$ out if you have to.


----------



## thebadguy (Dec 7, 2012)

I hope you got more from this conversation with your husband than you have in all the other ones over the past four years.

Smartie...people lie. Cheaters lie a lot. Virtually everything they say that relates in any way to the affair is a lie, a half-truth, an omission, or a minimized version. I should know...I am a cheater. My wife is a cheater too. She is still denying it was even an affair (and I have real proof).

I firmly believe you will only get the truth if YOU discover it in recordings, text messages, emails, facebook posts, or open dialog with the other woman's husband.

I hope you take action.


----------



## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

thebadguy said:


> I firmly believe you will only get the truth if YOU discover it in recordings, text messages, emails, facebook posts, or open dialog with the other woman's husband.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:
Yes BadGuy, it's the only way.


----------



## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

thebadguy said:


> I hope you got more from this conversation with your husband than you have in all the other ones over the past four years.
> 
> Smartie...people lie. Cheaters lie a lot. Virtually everything they say that relates in any way to the affair is a lie, a half-truth, an omission, or a minimized version. I should know...I am a cheater. My wife is a cheater too. She is still denying it was even an affair (and I have real proof).
> 
> ...


It's my observation that more times then not you will never know the full truth. 

That's where the decision making has to come in; Can you accept the incomplete truth you have now and reconcile? or is the not knowing going to gnaw at you to the point you will never be able to trust the person again. To me...if it's the latter it's better to cut that person loose so you can both move on. No one wants to live in an environment where they're not trusted any more that someone wants to live with someone they can't trust.


----------



## honeysuckle (Feb 23, 2014)

A passionate kiss is cheating.
That's it no question about it.
Kissing is something every sexual liaison involves, unless you are with a hooker who don't kiss punters & why is that?


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)




----------



## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

I am a typical man and I don't go around making out with women other than my wife.

I thought you might need that data point.


----------



## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

This is the easiest thing to sort out. Given him and you and your story

You quietly but firmly demand the key from him 

You do NOT ask - you firmly demand 

Everything about you and even the vocabulary and tone you use is to be frankly pathetic. Don't get annoyed at that as I, as well as the rest on here, are trying to *help* you. But you sound like a person who has no conviction or belief in what they are doing 

The basis of the 180 that you've heard about is that you no longer take any interest in this man - emotional or physical

You show him that there is nothing at all to discuss - only when he will be picking up the rest of his things from the house 

If this means him sleeping at a bus stop then so be it. I mean that bit. Don't worry he'll find some toxic friend that will put him up 

You have nothing to discuss with him apart from one thing only 

AFTER he's vacated the premises should he decide to treat you for the first time in all this with respect and tell you the full truth about ALL his infidelities will you be willing to talk with him

Unless that is the conversation he wants to have then there is NOTHING to discuss other than divorce 

You will quickly discover what it is he wants to do about you in his his life. Somebody has already mentioned you have to lose this marriage in order to grow a new one 

You sound like you think you are lucky to have him and you have little self respect (which he has ripped out of you ) 

You need to revise that feeling very very quickly 

It's 'hammer' time


----------



## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

By the way here's an interesting thread I started nearly two years ago 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/49268-only-kiss.html


----------



## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

It's the gateway to everything else physical isn't it.

I always marveled at mstbx comments about it. I'd say little and watch her unravel about it

"Look it was only a kiss"
Yeah of course fine

"It waaas"
Sure okay

"I know you think that a kiss is a big deal"

Er yeah well when we do it it is a big deal it gets you all wet for some reason and 'in the mood' so I'd say that is a BIG deal but okay if you insist it's nothing, then fine

"Look......... Okaaay I know it not 'nothing'"

Right so it's 'something' then ?

"Just fk oofff"


----------



## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Headspin said:


> By the way here's an interesting I started nearly two years ago
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/49268-only-kiss.html


Here's a lovely comment from that thread 




F-102 said:


> "It was ONLY a kiss"...
> 
> ...well then, "Its ONLY a divorce".


----------

