# How come things are backwards???



## steve smithe (Apr 26, 2011)

Hi all. I need some help.
The short version is this.
My wife and I have been together for 12 years, married for 6 years in NOV 2011, no kids. 
I discovered my wife was having a cyber affair 12 months ago.  About a month later, She revealed a 2nd affair to me. Both have ended and there has been no contact since.
It was like a nuclear bomb went off in my life.
Since then we have discussed our relationship extensively and I am aware of things that I was not doing to meet my wifes needs. I have been working hard (really hard) for 6 months now for my wife, our marriage and myself.
Here’s the problem. My wife has completely rewritten our marriage history. Nothing was ever good apparently. 
No matter what I do she is unhappy. She treats me like I had an affair. She has said she is sorry but her actions don’t add up. She is not doing anything or acting the way most cheating spouses act if they want to stay with their H or W. She treats me like I did it. WTH! I have read some things that speak of this happening to the cheating spouse but I honestly am getting to the point where I cant take it anymore. 
It seems that she is pushing me to ask her to leave as to absolve her from having to own our marriage breaking up.
I love my wife deeply and want things to work but this is starting to take its toll on me.
Any advice would be appreciated and I will fill in details for anyone with questions.


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## hbgirl (Feb 15, 2011)

How do most cheating spouses act if they want to stay with their spouses exactly? I don't mean to be sarcastic but what is it you're looking for from her? It's possible that she's trying to be more open and honest with you about her likes/dislikes and it probably hurts. You recognized that there were things you needed to change and were willing to work on. Does that include helping her through the pain? She made the decision to cheat and she'll own that for the rest of her life. No matter what you did or didn't do SHE MADE THE CHOICE. If you really love her and want this marriage to work then you have to look past the pain. If you can't then maybe you should leave.


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## steve smithe (Apr 26, 2011)

Thanks hbgirl,

You are right. I can hang in there but I just thought she would help. She is still here, which is good. I dont want our marraige to end. Maybe I am just venting. I feel like it is all on me. I know life is not fair but I was hoping for something from her by now.


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## jayde (Jun 17, 2011)

Steve - it sounds like you're doing all the work. In other posts I read on TAM where a spouse has cheated and want to reconcile the cheater is the one bending over backwards to fix things. Has she been doing anything to fix things? It doesn't sound like it from your post. Someone posted on another thread there are 2 people in a marriage and it won't work if only 1 is working on it.


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## steve smithe (Apr 26, 2011)

Jayde,

I know that is what I was reading too. She is definitely not bending over backwards for me. She is doing some small things, very small changes that are good. It is just that considering, even with my shortcomings, she would want to work hard. That is not happening. A big part of my problem is that since I feel I am doing all the work that she is just dragging out what she already wants to do which is leave the marraige. I dont know this as a fact but that is what it looks like to me.


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## Married&Confused (Jan 19, 2011)

i was the one that cheated and i'm working to fix things. but part of the problem was my not communicating to my wife.

now i'm more open and she's not used to that. she thinks i'm just complaining about things but it's all part of being open about how i feel about what's going on in our relationship.


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## steve smithe (Apr 26, 2011)

M&C,

We have been a lot more open with each other too. Some of the "openess" that she is expressing hurts. I have been listening for a couple months now. It is all about her. I have been ok with it because not listening was part of my problem with her in the past. I think I am a great listener now for the most part. Sometimes the stuff hurts so bad or is untrue so I try to defend (for lack of a better word) myself and it seems like it sets me back to the beginning with her.


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## steve smithe (Apr 26, 2011)

By the way, I think I will add that my wife has had trouble adjusting to me wanting to be in the marraige. It is like now I care too much now.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

Are you really sure she isn't still seeing someone? You are correct, she's not acting like a spouse who wants to reconcile. She's actually acting like my wayward STBXH who didn't want to reconcile. It sounds as though you are entered in some big contest with no prize at the end.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

steve smithe said:


> I have been working hard (really hard) for 6 months now for my wife, our marriage and myself.


That's wonderful.

Now what is she doing for you after breaking your trust so horribly?


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## steve smithe (Apr 26, 2011)

827

Thanks. Yes, that is in the back of my mind. I dont think she is seeing anyone but I didnt think there was a problem or she would have an affair to begin with. 

but....
It would be hard for her now as she has been spending a lot more time at home and not going out and going all the time like before. But I have read enough here now to know that something does not seem right. I was thinking that she may just be totally depressed. I just dont know.


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## steve smithe (Apr 26, 2011)

Jelly,

That is what I think - but I have read that it may take a while after an affair for the cheating spouse to come around. Am I a fool?


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## steve smithe (Apr 26, 2011)

Jelly,

BTW that is what is so upsetting to me. I was never perfect but I was not a horrible guy. She has told me several times that I am a great husband now since I have come to the table and made some big changes. 

She has an affair and cant even consider how I feel.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Yeah it may take a awhile for her head to get out of the fog but she should be on her knees thanking you that you even gave her a second chance, not acting like an indignant and entitled a$$hole.

Stop babying her.

Yolu need to read the MAN UP threads in the Men's Clubhouse.

Ultimately, if she isn't meeting your needs: you need to decide whether this is someone you want to be with long-term.


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## steve smithe (Apr 26, 2011)

You may be right. To her the affairs are not the issue. She had said she was already gone when she had the affairs. In fact she said she would have left at the time had she not had the affairs.

?????


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

steve smithe said:


> To her the affairs are not the issue.


That is an even bigger issue and quite frankly, if she doesn't own her responsibility or the fallout of what she did, I don't see a lot of hope for your marriage.

Her minimizing the issue is extremely negligent, IMO.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

Jellybeans said:


> That is an even bigger issue and quite frankly, if she doesn't own her responsibility or the fallout of what she did, I don't see a lot of hope for your marriage.
> 
> Her minimizing the issue is extremely negligent, IMO.


:iagree: You did not make her have the affairs. Until she takes full responsibility for that, you are not ready to even consider reconciliation.


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## steve smithe (Apr 26, 2011)

Guys,

The update from last night is that she said that we needed to separate. She can not fix her and the marraige at the same time.
She wanted my blessing. She has brought this up several times and even left for a couple hours or overnight to stay at a girlfriends in the past months. I told her that I dont want her to leave, but if that is what she thinks she needs to do then do it. 

This is like having to go through her leaving me over and over again. I cant take it. 

She tells me this and she has no place to go. So now I have wait for it to play out. When? How Long? etc...

It is like she is trying to kill any love I have for her. I told her last night that usually people that have affairs would be kissing the betrayed spouses a*s if they wanted to stay together. She said she knows and does not feel that way. Hmmm.

Everything keeps getting turned around on me.


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## steve smithe (Apr 26, 2011)

Jelly,

She says she is sorry and feels horrible for what she did. I think that is true maybe, but she has no idea how hard it has hit me. It has been a couple months now since I found out and I feel like with no support from her I am getting worse not better.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

No, she has no idea how to empathize with you because she is a wayward. So while she says she is sorry, her apology is not rooted in the reality and depth of what you are feeling. 

She has told you she wants to separate--don't fight her on this. Let her go. The worst possible thing you could do right now is cling to her like a vine that won't let loose. She wants freedom so give it to her. But with that freedom, she also loses you. Make that be known. No more placating her, doing things for her, helping her, being at her beck and call. No more sex, no more being her shoulder to cry on while she rejects you.

I would start shopping for lawyers if I were you to get a separation agreement in the works. That cold hard reality *may* wake her up from the fog but there are no guarantees. Nonetheless, prepare for the worst.


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## steve smithe (Apr 26, 2011)

Jelly

I hear you. I am letting her go. I told her this morning I did not want to have any contact during this and she is now telling me I am trying to control her. WTH!


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Don't listen to her. Everything that comes out of her mouth is going to be WTF to you. Every wayward waffles back and forth from being mean, sweet, confused, loving, crazy. 

The fact remains though: she wants out. 

You were right to tell her you're letting her go. Now sit back and don't bite. She is going to try to bait you into doing and saying a lot of things but DO NOT give in. 

If she comes at you yelling or being angry and how you are being so awful to her--tell her this was HER decision and you are respecting it and walk away.


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## steve smithe (Apr 26, 2011)

jelly

Thanks for your advice. I really mean it. I feel like I am in some twilight zone episode right now.

It hurts. You are right she wants out.

Separation is dangerous in my eyes because the only thing I can now do is move forward with my life. I dont want to lose my wife. I love her but I can't take this. I have been strong for several months. It seems like nothing has changed so maybe this will help one way or the other. I cant believe I am here after so many years.

Is there a chance from what you know that the wayward will turn around after seperation??


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## steve smithe (Apr 26, 2011)

BTW she says it is a temp seperation for her to get herself right. All I know is she is leaving me. She cant work on us until she fixes herself. It seems that is a cop out and she just wants to get out as easy as she can.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

> You may be right. To her the affairs are not the issue. She had said she was already gone when she had the affairs. In fact she said she would have left at the time had she not had the affairs.


Then why didn't she?

She is gaslighting you. Look it up.

If I were you, I would insist on marriage counseling. If she refuses, file for separation, because she is telling you she doesn't care.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

steve smithe said:


> BTW she says it is a temp seperation for her to get herself right. All I know is she is leaving me. She cant work on us until she fixes herself. It seems that is a cop out and she just wants to get out as easy as she can.


 It's actually a valid reason. She's using you as a crutch, as her financial support. If she thinks life's so great without you, let her find out the truth.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

steve smithe said:


> Is there a chance from what you know that the wayward will turn around after seperation??


The times I have seen it happen is when the left behindspouse takes a hard stance immediately and tells the wayward: either you are in or you are out. I will not be waiting around for you to make a decision. If you want the marriage, great, we can work at it together, marriage counselling, will both be committed 100% to our marriage. If you want outk I will not stop you and the door is open for you to leave." 

When the left behind spouse has some good boundaries in place, those are the times I have seen the wayward be more receptive to the marriage. It makes sense too. Think about it: letting a wayward cake-eat makes them lose respect for you plus they know they have you as a back up.

So don't be her back-up plan. 



steve smithe said:


> All I know is she is leaving me. She cant work on us until she fixes herself. It seems that is a cop out and she just wants to get out as easy as she can.


That's because it IS a cop out. Your gut instinct is spot on.


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## steve smithe (Apr 26, 2011)

Thanks jelly and turnera

I understand. Still cant believe this has happened.

I think it is a valid reason as well. The first 3 times.

At this point it is just cruel. 

We went to one MC session recently, the next one was for next week. Last night after she told me she wanted to leave againg. I told her to go ahead and cancel it. She asked why? I didnt answer.

Now just the most angry / frustrated / sad I have been in my life.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Don't cancel it. Your marriage isn't over yet. And you two still have a LOT to learn! I've seen people separate, get their act together, and discover they still love each other; they just needed to get some perspective.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

BTW, if you want her, fight for her. Even if from different houses. Women need to see their men fight for them. Trust me.

Mind, though, that doesn't mean to smother her. It means to show her, respectfully, that you still want the marriage and you aren't giving up.


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## jayde (Jun 17, 2011)

Steve - I think the fact she asked you why to cancel the MC appointment may be some hope. As Tunera said - fight for your marriage if you really want it. I'm feeling for you pal, hang in there!


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## steve smithe (Apr 26, 2011)

I already asked her to. I dont want to make contact just for that now. I assume she is making plans today to stay with one of her girlfriends. I was going to go off the grid with her for a while. Not giving up but if it is space she wants then it is space she will get.

Seems like she wants to still have contact during this time. I dont know if that is the best idea. Isnt the whole idea of a seperation to seperate????

I have been fighting and plan to do so in the future. In fact, I have been the only one fighting for the last 6 months. Rollercoaster. I just cant believe that after all this time she is now pulling the seperation card. She has not really done anything to change things. She knows it. She says she is damaged.

Its just that it is taking its toll on me. Just venting I guess.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

steve smithe said:


> Isnt the whole idea of a seperation to seperate????


Sometimes it's just to let people live on their own for awhile to see if they can get better clarity so they can FIX their marriage.

Are you sure she's not seeing someone or even just contacting someone via phone or computer?


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## steve smithe (Apr 26, 2011)

Turnera,

Dont really know anymore. I dont think so but I didnt think she would have an affair in the first place. It does seem like she is in the FOG so doesnt that point to there being someone on the side??


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## steve smithe (Apr 26, 2011)

How should I play this. Just let her go and if she wants to talk or come by should I accept?

Also she keeps insisting that she has to come by to take care of this and that and that I should be ok with that. Should I? I dont feel that way.

S%#T I dont know what to do.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

She may or may not be having an affair. 

If she is, then it explains everything better.

I personally would not go to MC with her. She has already said she wants out so what is the ponit of marriage counselling if one party has checked out of the marriage.

Now if you want, you can tell her you are going and if she's up to it, then she can meet you there.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I like that. Tell her you're going anyway because you know you have a lot to learn and intend to improve yourself, no matter who you end up with.

Re your house, just set up some ground rules. If you're uncomfortable with her there, say so. Let her feel the consequences of leaving you.


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## steve smithe (Apr 26, 2011)

I dont see the point in MC unless she wants to work on us. She just wants to work on her. So she can go to her IC. 

I guess there is nothing for me to do now except let her know that I will fight to the end for a better marraige. If she wants to join me then great. If she doesnt then I guess there is no marraige. Damn.

I have been so caught up in her revisionist history of our marraige, I almost believe that things are the way that she said they were. 

I know this isnt true but......


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You can't use the MC as your IC?

'Fighting for a better marriage' does include you getting therapy and professional guidance.

So...just because she'd say no to MC (assuming she does, which I don't understand because she asked you why you would cancel it)...that's enough for you to throw in the towel?

You seem to be making a lot of kneejerk reactions. She does this..so fine, I'll do that.

How does that help you get her back? Be the bigger person.


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## steve smithe (Apr 26, 2011)

You are right but I have been the bigger person now for 6 months.

Feel like I am alone in this fight. I am ok with that but time has been taking its toll

That is why I am so wishy washy right now.

You are also right that I am all over the place. Not myself right now. I wish that I was. 

Thank the lord for you guys.

Just have a thousand things going through my mind now.

I will go to MC. I have no problem with that. I got it started in the first place. Just sucks that I said to cancel it.

More kneejerk.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Well if she brings up the MC again, tell her: you know I was thinking about it and I a mgoing to attend cause I could really use the session. You are more than welcome to attend with me.

If she doesn't bite, no sweat off your back. And you will know where her head is at.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Steve, don't worry about changing your mind about MC, just realize that you are blindly trying to find your way. You are dealing with it as best as you can, you are not freaking out... You are doing better than many do! 

Think of it this way... she just changed the rules of the game. YOU don't have to play by her rules anymore. Now you probably need to sit quietly without her input and figure out how to handle things. If you think no contact is best for you (and if there are no kids...then I would agree) then do that. If you don't want her to pop in at the house...then say so. YOU get to be in charge of your life. YOU make decisions that are best for you. 

IF she questions your decisions/choices just tell her.... "Look, YOU are the one who cheated, YOU are the one who is leaving... I am going to deal with the fallout in the best way that I can, and you just don't get any input on that." Make your statements about yourself, not her. Nothing you can do about her. SHE has to figure herself out, and you only get to figure YOURSELF out. The marriage is a non-entity right now. 

See an attorney about separation and divorce laws in your state. Research online. KNOWING what your rights and responsibilities are will help somewhat.

Gather a support group for you. TALK to your best friend, or your sister or someone... Get a hug when you need one. Take care of yourself!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Yeah, it's expected that you will be all over the place. One marriage building method recommends that you set a timeline for 'working' on the marriage, just for the purpose of you not developing PTSD over prolonged head banging. Six months is a long time to go with her not giving anything back. For your own sake, you need a break from her. Plus, her seeing you willing to do without her rather than accept crumbs will, oddly enough, make you look BETTER to her. So, say no to letting her come and go: "I want you for my wife, and if you can't be that, then I can't just be your friend. It hurts too much. Either work with me to fix this, or we say goodbye."


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## steve smithe (Apr 26, 2011)

Thanks Sunny,

She actually came up to my work to express that this is not a doomsday thing and for me to please see it for what it is which is her needing to get herself right so she can move forward and work on us. I said that I will go to MC and so are next appt. is now on.

She seems genuine in her pain and her role in things.

She says that she only needs a couple of weeks away to work on herself. If that is what it takes to get us back on track then I am ok with it.

I do think I have changed the dynamic though in a good way. Thanks for Jelly telling me to man up. 

I guess I am waiting for what's next now.


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## steve smithe (Apr 26, 2011)

Turnera

That is pretty much what I said and it seemed to have some affect.

Thanks


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So...if she needs 6 months are you still ok with waiting for her? A year?


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## steve smithe (Apr 26, 2011)

It is supposed to be a couple of weeks.

I can wait, I can wait longer if things are moving forward.

There is a limit. I guess I have not hit it yet. Which is good if things can be turned around. How much do I value my marraige.

A lot. The rest of our lives in a better marraige is worth a lot to me.


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## bill2011 (Feb 5, 2011)

Hate to be the pessimist here but I wouldn't be surprised if she is still having some kind of affair and she needs this time to see if things will work out with the OM. If that is the case you have become the back-up plan. Let her go and don't be available for her, she can contact you but you will answer her when you get around to it. She has moved out she needs to realize that she could lose you.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Yeah, don't forget to be checking the phone records. Maybe a keylogger on her computer. Just so you'll know what you're dealing with. If you find nothing, discontinue looking.


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## steve smithe (Apr 26, 2011)

I have already been keeping tabs on that stuff and have not been able to find anything. 

Anything is possible, I am not being complacent but I just don’t see any evidence of that going on.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

I always keep in mind what an attorney once told me. "People never separate to save a marriage. They separate to have more freedom--especially freedom from guilt and having to lie." Although that probably isn't always true, it certainly was in my situation and many others.


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