# Rape Fantasy



## killjoy

how common is it for women to have rape fantasies? my wife says (to "spice" things up) she wants me to be rougher with her, i.e choke her, slap her, spit on her, pull her hair, fast & hard. I'm a little uncomfortable with what she's asking of me; it sounds like she wants me to rape her. did she just reveal a darker side of her personality or do a lot of women like being treated like this in the bedroom?

i'm confused, this just came out of nowhere. she's reading the 50 shades of grey books so maybe thats putting some thoughts into her head..


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## northland

Its a bit unusual.

That much being said, do what makes her happy.


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## WorkingOnMe

It's very common. Just insist that she have a safe word. That way you can tell the difference between "no, don't stop" and "no don't, stop".


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## plasmasunn

I refuse to read 50 Shades of Grey. Not because of content, just cause it sounds like a crappy book!

BUT, no doubt that's EXACTLY what has her on this rough sex kick. 

My husband was of a similiar mindset to yours early in our relationship. I like it rough, he was very passive. But ya know what? Once he saw how much I LOVED it, he, in turn, started getting off on it too. Now, I don't even have to ask!

However, if you try it and really do feel uncomfortable, you'll have to tell her. But chances are, you might be surprised by how good it feels to dominate!


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## RandomDude

My STBX loved it everytime I pinned her against the wall and had my way with her. Other women in the past also quite enjoyed the violent side of my sexuality, so yes it's quite common. Nothing weird about it, just let loose on your woman.


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## SimplyAmorous

killjoy said:


> how common is it for women to have rape fantasies? my wife says (to "spice" things up) she wants me to be rougher with her, i.e *choke her*, *slap her*, *spit on her*, pull her hair, fast & hard. I'm a little uncomfortable with what she's asking of me; it sounds like she wants me to rape her. did she just reveal a darker side of her personality or do a lot of women like being treated like this in the bedroom?
> 
> i'm confused, this just came out of nowhere. she's reading the 50 shades of grey books so maybe thats putting some thoughts into her head..


If I wanted THIS from my husband, I'd surely have to divorce the man...... he has trouble just getting rougher without all of the degradation... Oh goodness.. I consider myself one who enjoys a Rape Fantasy...but it is TAMER than what you describe here...I guess there is all extremes...

Women's Rape Fantasies: How Common? What Do They Mean? 

This is WHY I fancy them... .explained here >> It's about high desire...



> Rape or near-rape fantasies are central to romance novels, one of the perennial best-selling categories in fiction. These books are often called "bodice-rippers" and have titles like Love's Sweet Savage Fury, which imply at least some degree of force. *In them, a handsome cad becomes so overwhelmed by his attraction to the heroine that he loses all control and must have her, even if she refuses--which she does initially, but then eventually melts into submission, desire, and ultimately fulfillment.*
> 
> Romance novels are often called "porn for women." Porn is all about sexual fantasies. In porn for men, the fantasy is sexual abundance--eager women who can't get enough and have no interest in a relationship. *In porn for women as depicted in romance novels, the fantasy is to be desired so much that the man loses all control, though he never actually hurts the woman, and in the end, marries her.*


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## committed4ever

I must admit, I want to tell my H no, but then I want him to TAKE IT anyway. But don't hit me or anything, just over power me with his sheer strength.

I'm just too HD to get to the point of saying no ...


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## pink_lady

Judging by how often I see it on this forum, it sounds like most women are dying for more 'alpha' behavior in bed from their husbands/boyfriends.

For most of us, it is a huge turn-on. And honestly it's a big disappointment when men are passive in bed- always want the woman to be on top, always want to be 'seduced', can't bring themselves to give a spanking, etc. My last two relationships were with tattooed, shaved head muscular he-men who became little boys in bed. Major bummer.

That said, spitting? That would be a wee bit beyond for me. But to desire spanking, hair pulling, holding us down during/before sex is extremely common.


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## Kobo

SimplyAmorous said:


> If I wanted THIS from my husband, I'd surely have to divorce the man...... he has trouble just getting rougher without all of the degradation... Oh goodness.. I consider myself one who enjoys a Rape Fantasy...but it is TAMER than what you describe here...I guess there is all extremes...
> 
> Women's Rape Fantasies: How Common? What Do They Mean?
> 
> This is WHY I fancy them... .explained here >> It's about high desire...



Considering that rape is like considering ribs from new jersey BBQ.


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## Holland

There is confusion over this because it is not rape when two consenting adults engage in sex. I think some men like to call it a rape fantasy.

Rape is a violent crime done against someone's will.

What your wife wants is a more aggressive side to your sex life, she feels safe with you. She does not want a random to come in and violate her. 

If it doesn't feel right to you then you need to discuss it with her really openly. You can start off with the milder things like gentle hair pulling or slapping her arse. Can tell you that this does bring some spice to things and heats it up.
Maybe work towards it slowly so you learn where the boundaries are.


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## committed4ever

Kobo said:


> Considering that rape is like considering ribs from new jersey BBQ.



Well, not really. If you say no and your H overpower you and take it anyway, I think it's legally rape? No? 

The point being, he would think you really meant no, but he took it anyway, he just didn't have to beat you up to take it.

Yeah!


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## DvlsAdvc8

I've heard this is turn on because its like he just can't control himself... he has to have her. Now. She's his irresistible desire.

Rough, physical, manly desire unleashed and she has no control.

Its primal and oh so yummy imo. Count your blessings OP!


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## The Seahorse Guy

Imagine a guy trying (unsuccessfully) to have sex with a large angry salt water crocodile......and now you have a picture of my intimate relations with my wife. 

Then I skulk away to lick my wounds only to try again another day.


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## Caribbean Man

My wife likes rough sex sometimes.
Not the slapping and spitting, but the pinning against the wall.
[ Sometimes a little biting too.]
She likes when I lift her from the floor or the bed , sometimes she likes hair pulling and sometimes bodily restraint.

But she does not like to ask for it, she likes when I escalate it, and she's in the mood for it.

Its a delicate balance, and lots of non verbal communication.
But she does not like to be hit.


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## The Seahorse Guy

Caribbean Man said:


> But she does not like to ask for it, *she likes when I escalate it, and she's in the mood for it*.


When I escalate it, she is NOT in the mood. When she IS in the mood .......I'm still recovering from the last time I tried to escalate it.


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## diwali123

Rough sex isn't rape. 
And you can't steal something that's being given away.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mablenc

plasmasunn said:


> I refuse to read 50 Shades of Grey. Not because of content, just cause it sounds like a crappy book!
> 
> BUT, no doubt that's EXACTLY what has her on this rough sex kick.
> 
> My husband was of a similiar mindset to yours early in our relationship. I like it rough, he was very passive. But ya know what? Once he saw how much I LOVED it, he, in turn, started getting off on it too. Now, I don't even have to ask!
> 
> However, if you try it and really do feel uncomfortable, you'll have to tell her. But chances are, you might be surprised by how good it feels to dominate!


You're not missing out on anything seems like a middle school girl wrote the story. Young rich successful guy hint of mysterious behavior, poor innocent shy girl falls in love with him. Then older woman added the sex to the story and that's it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sandc

Perfectly normal. My wife likes it rough at times. She loves being over-powered and taken.


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## Anon Pink

very normal, very common, very harmless. very FUN!


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## Maricha75

From what I have seen on here...it's common. Not something I would ever be into, and not something my husband would do either. If it makes you that uncomfortable, then you need to discuss this with her. Personally, I don't get this fantasy, but to each her own....


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## Sussieq

killjoy said:


> how common is it for women to have rape fantasies? my wife says (to "spice" things up) she wants me to be rougher with her, i.e choke her, slap her, spit on her, pull her hair, fast & hard. I'm a little uncomfortable with what she's asking of me; it sounds like she wants me to rape her. did she just reveal a darker side of her personality or do a lot of women like being treated like this in the bedroom?
> 
> i'm confused, this just came out of nowhere. she's reading the 50 shades of grey books so maybe thats putting some thoughts into her head..


It masochism. I'm not sure if it's common, but there are plenty of people who enjoy this kind of thing. There are some documentaries out there but there's also vids on YouTube. It can be disturbing to watch.


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## Sussieq

Anon Pink said:


> very normal, very common, very harmless. very FUN!


I don't think it's very common.......is it?


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## that_girl

I will say, rough sex and "rape fantasy" are different.

I have come to a realization that the rape fantasy itself can be a manifestation of past abuse.

I say this because I used to have a rape fantasy. I loved rough sex and 'rape sex'. Ugh...makes me sick to write that BECAUSE I had therapy and this fantasy that I enjoyed playing out was created by my childhood sexual abuse...It wasn't that I LIKED being raped...it's hard to explain. It's almost like I was replaying my abuse BUT being able to fight back. Weird in its own.

I had this realization when talking to someone I love dearly. She, too, had/has a rape fantasy and she says it's probably because of her past sexual abuse....

Oye.

So she is seeking therapy because she wants a healthy sexual relationship WITHOUT having this degrading fantasy in her mind.

I dunno...just a thought.

If you're not ok with this, don't do it. You could feel worse afterwards and you may not know the REAL REASON behind her fantasy.


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## SouthernMiss

When my husband and I first met, I made it clear I'm into S&M. This was pre "50 Shades of Grey" lol He was shocked and didn't know what to do with that...I told him that it was important to me and wasn't optional. This was very early in getting to know each other.

He said he wasn't used to a woman like me. He wasn't used to a woman liking to be treated like that. He didn't know what to do with it.

I knew what I wanted, and I didn't get that in my first marriage. I was very forthright this time around.

We have a very active and happy sex life. He is my master, and he loves it. He said he never thought that was in him. But now he is so happy and satisfied that he can't imagine our sex life any differently.

My point is - rape fantasies, dominance and submission, rough sex...these are normal desires. It is not what everyone desires, but they are normal desires.

Don't judge her for it. Go with it. Explore it. She may find that the fantasy is what she likes but the reality isn't something she can handle. It's very intense.

There's nothing wrong with the fantasy or even acting it out though. It's just another type of sexual variety. Try it. You may find you enjoy it. I've found it brings out an interesting side to most men...

DO have a safe word though. Part of the fun of male-dominant, aggressive sex is saying "no" but being taken anyway! So NO shouldn't be the safe word. Have it be asparagus or Iceland or something you'll know isn't part of the game. 

Then proceed from there. Start small and work your way up until y'all find the "sweet spot" for y'all as a couple. 

Good luck...you're in for a hell of a good time if you find you enjoy it...


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## SouthernMiss

that_girl said:


> I will say, rough sex and "rape fantasy" are different.
> 
> I have come to a realization that the rape fantasy itself can be a manifestation of past abuse.
> 
> I say this because I used to have a rape fantasy. I loved rough sex and 'rape sex'. Ugh...makes me sick to write that BECAUSE I had therapy and this fantasy that I enjoyed playing out was created by my childhood sexual abuse...It wasn't that I LIKED being raped...it's hard to explain. It's almost like I was replaying my abuse BUT being able to fight back. Weird in its own.
> 
> I had this realization when talking to someone I love dearly. She, too, had/has a rape fantasy and she says it's probably because of her past sexual abuse....
> 
> Oye.
> 
> So she is seeking therapy because she wants a healthy sexual relationship WITHOUT having this degrading fantasy in her mind.
> 
> I dunno...just a thought.
> 
> If you're not ok with this, don't do it. You could feel worse afterwards and you may not know the REAL REASON behind her fantasy.


I do agree with this. I have a past history of sexual abuse, to include rape. However, I have viewed my desires this way - everybody's sexuality is formed by life events...good and bad. My experiences were devastating at the time. They nearly broke my soul. But I am left with a small gift...the ability to enjoy sex in this amazing way. I don't know how or why these experiences helped to shape my sexuality...and I wouldn't want to go through them again. But I am enjoying some of the later effects on my sexuality. I don't want to fix it. It brings me joy, satisfaction and an incredible sense of being loved. Sometimes bad...very bad...things happen to us. But sometimes, you can find the gold in the muddy river. That's what I've chosen to do. YMMV, of course.


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## that_girl

Yea. I liked it too. Until I realized i just wanted to be loved.

Loved softly and feel worthy of soft love. Especially in bed. Still working on that.


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## Tony55

killjoy said:


> She's reading the 50 shades of grey books so maybe thats putting some thoughts into her head..


That's where she's getting it. These women read that book and get sold on the idea until a guy actually smacks them around a little. Careful with how you handle this, more than likely you're no Christian Grey. I believe most men inclined to Christian Grey's (character in that book) violent, controlling, sexual extremes aren't so manly, charming, and handsome in real life (based on what I've seen of such things).

Tell your wife to snap out of her storybook fog.

T


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## SouthernMiss

that_girl said:


> Yea. I liked it too. Until I realized i just wanted to be loved.
> 
> Loved softly and feel worthy of soft love. Especially in bed. Still working on that.


Sexuality is a fascinating thing. I don't feel loved by a man who makes "sweet, gentle" love to me. It is fairly boring to me. It makes me sad to have that type of sex. There's just not much there for me. But I have a sister who is the opposite. She doesn't even like a little paddling lol That's ok though. Variety makes the world go 'round.

I guess the lesson is...as long as you're not damaging anybody...explore your own sexuality for what it is. You're not going to change it. What makes you go *boom* will probably always make you go *boom* Explore it respectfully, carefully and slowly without harming anybody...if those bases are covered, you're golden.


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## Maneo

What she is asking is not that uncommon but also perhaps not commonplace. What consenting - emphasis on consenting - adults do in their intimacy is fairly broad. 
If you just can't bring yourself to engage in it, best to let her know that soonest and talk it out.
If you can accommodate her, might want to approach it in steps. 
The post about the childhood trauma has a point but I don't know that that is the case for all who desire such sex play.


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## that_girl

SouthernMiss said:


> Sexuality is a fascinating thing. I don't feel loved by a man who makes "sweet, gentle" love to me. It is fairly boring to me. It makes me sad to have that type of sex. There's just not much there for me. But I have a sister who is the opposite. She doesn't even like a little paddling lol That's ok though. Variety makes the world go 'round.
> 
> I guess the lesson is...as long as you're not damaging anybody...explore your own sexuality for what it is. You're not going to change it. What makes you go *boom* will probably always make you go *boom* Explore it respectfully, carefully and slowly without harming anybody...if those bases are covered, you're golden.


yup.

Ive explored it all....just wanted some soft love.


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## SouthernMiss

that_girl said:


> yup.
> 
> Ive explored it all....just wanted some soft love.


And that is fantastic. A lot of marital problems would be solved if women understand, and owned, what they want sexually. There's nothing wrong with wanting soft love. If it satisfies you, pursue it and enjoy the hell out of it :smthumbup:


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## Kobo

committed4ever said:


> Well, not really. If you say no and your H overpower you and take it anyway, I think gally rape? No?
> 
> The point being, he would think you really meant no, but he took it anyway, he just didn't have to beat you up to take it.
> 
> Yeah!



Yeah, except for the part about her enjoying the sex,participating and then getting married to the "rapist". 
it's more of an "im so freaking beautiful that even prince Harry can't control himself annnnnd now I'm a princess." fant
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07

committed4ever said:


> I must admit, I want to tell my H no, but then I want him to TAKE IT anyway. But don't hit me or anything, just over power me with his sheer strength.
> 
> I'm just too HD to get to the point of saying no ...


Louis CK - Rape - YouTube


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## Theseus

Choices #2 and #3 in that poll aren't mutually exclusive. Both can be true at the same time.

My own wife loves forced sex play. We don't use safewords, and sometimes it's been pretty darn hard to draw the line between when it's really a game or not.

The irony is, she prefers to be the one in control in all other aspects of our life.


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## sandc

It's pretty common for people who are in positions of power or like to control things in life to take "vacations" from that and be the ones that are controlled in the bedroom.


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## Anon Pink

Sussieq said:


> I don't think it's very common.......is it?


25-40% of women ENDORSE rape fantasy. Meaning they not only have rape fantasy they admit to having it. Thats a very important distinction. I read a Kinsey report that 70% of women have rape fantasy.

You have to understand the distinction between real rape and rape fantasy. The difference is like drinking a glass of wine or drinking a glass of rubbing alcohol!

Our culture encourages strong women. Strong women tend to have dominant or assertive personalities. Those women tend to have the rape fantasies in which they give up sexual control, they willingly (pretend it to be unwilling) submit sexually to a partner who is so overcome by his ardor that he doesn't seek consent and is unable to be gentle. Thats the psychological turn on for women with rape fantasy. "I am so damn hot you are out of control and a sexual beast."


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## sandc

It's the number 1 fantasy according to this site and in the top 10 among all sites when googling "top 10 sex fantasies for women"

Women's 10 MostCommon Sexual Fantasies


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## Anon Pink

Tony55 said:


> That's where she's getting it. These women read that book and get sold on the idea until a guy actually smacks them around a little. Careful with how you handle this, more than likely you're no Christian Grey. I believe most men inclined to Christian Grey's (character in that book) violent, controlling, sexual extremes aren't so manly, charming, and handsome in real life (based on what I've seen of such things).
> 
> Tell your wife to snap out of her storybook fog.
> 
> T


This is NOT a story book fog! I suggest you do a little reading to better understand the current thinking that explains why women have rape fantasies, keep in mind it has NOTHING to do with 50 shades. That book simply gave women permission to be the sexual creatures they are, rather then repress it.
Why Do Women Have Erotic Rape Fantasies? | Psychology Today


•Masochism - The idea that women desire suffering. Women who engage in masochistic sex are more likely to have rape fantasies, but the great majority of women with rape fantasies do not want real rape. Accordingly, masochism may apply to only a small group of women.

•Sexual Blame Avoidance - (See my ex, above.) Women are socialized to not seek out sex lest they be considered tramps, but if they're having sex against their will they can avoid guilt. Studies comparing sexual repression to rape fantasies are mixed and overall don't support the explanation, but they may have been using wrong metrics; sexually repressed women have fewer fantasies overall but they might have a higher ratio of rape fantasies. In any case, this theory would apply to only some women.

•Openness to Sexual Experience - In some ways this is the opposite of the last one, and it doesn't explain rape fantasies so much as it describes the type of person to has them. If you're sexually open, you entertain a greater variety of fantasies. As one study described rape fantasy among these women, it's "just one more expression of a generally open, positive, unrestrictive, and relatively guilt-free expression of one's sexuality."

•Desirabilty - Many women like to believe that they're so attractive that men cannot resist the urge to overtake them. The evidence for this theory is suggestive but not yet conclusive. I did cover a study in Psychology Today last year indicating that women with attachment anxiety (neediness) have more sexual fantasies featuring submission.

•Male Rape Culture - Some have argued that women have been conditioned to buy into men's fantasies of domination. But the prevalence of rape fantasies has not changed much in recent decades, even as gender roles have.

•Biological Predisposition to Surrender - In many mammalian species, the male must pursue and subdue the female in order to mate. Women may be programmed to surrender to the successful dominant male. Just like many other theories in evolutionary psychology, this one makes sense but has not been tested empirically. 

•Sympathetic Activation - The sympathetic nervous system becomes engaged in times of stress or danger, activating a fight or flight response marked by increased heart rate, respiration, pupil dilation, and genital arousal. Just like on a roller coaster, fear and excitement go hand in hand.

•Adversary Transformation - In one survey of romance novels (which tend to be written by and for women), the lead female character was raped in 54%. The male heroes are usually rugged warrior types and these books may illustrate a desire to "conquer the heart of the rapist" and tame him for marriage.

•Reaction to Trauma - This one is not mentioned in the paper, but Brett Kahr, a psychoanalyst who has conducted the largest survey of sexual fantasies ever, argues that most masturbatory fantasies are attempts to transform early difficult experiences into pleasure. So those who have been sexually abused may try to master their trauma by taming those experiences.

•Laziness - Also not mentioned in the paper. The writer Tracie Egan hints at this explanation in her essay entitled "One Rape Please (To Go)" about hiring a male prostitute to play-rape her (which I recently saw her read live): "...as a girl, my equipment can be trickier to manage, therefore I need to be a boss in the bedroom to ensure I get worked the right way. [But] it gets really tiresome always being the one in charge..."


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## committed4ever

I think my version of the fantasy (wanting to be over powered and taken against my will) comes from us going to the gym together and seeing him lifting. Turns me on and I want to experience that strength.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sussieq

Anon Pink said:


> 25-40% of women ENDORSE rape fantasy. Meaning they not only have rape fantasy they admit to having it. Thats a very important distinction. I read a Kinsey report that 70% of women have rape fantasy.
> 
> You have to understand the distinction between real rape and rape fantasy. The difference is like drinking a glass of wine or drinking a glass of rubbing alcohol!
> 
> Our culture encourages strong women. Strong women tend to have dominant or assertive personalities. Those women tend to have the rape fantasies in which they give up sexual control, they willingly (pretend it to be unwilling) submit sexually to a partner who is so overcome by his ardor that he doesn't seek consent and is unable to be gentle. Thats the psychological turn on for women with rape fantasy. "I am so damn hot you are out of control and a sexual beast."


Wow I had no idea. I never thought of it in terms of a rape fantasy.....but it's nice when the man takes control. Just don't hit/spank me!


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## DvlsAdvc8

I heart this thread.


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## Caribbean Man

committed4ever said:


> I think my version of the fantasy (wanting to be over powered and taken against my will) comes from us going to the gym together and seeing him lifting. Turns me on and I want to experience that strength.


My wife says the same thing.

Sometimes as I'm walking into the bedroom, she will stand on the bed and throw herself on me.
She says that I'm strong and * _supposed_ * to catch her.


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## sandc

Sussieq said:


> Wow I had no idea. I never thought of it in terms of a rape fantasy.....but it's nice when the man takes control. Just don't hit/spank me!


This is what my wife likes. When I walk in and just pin her down so she can't move and take her. I love it too. Everybody wins.


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## Tony55

Anon Pink said:


> This is NOT a story book fog! I suggest you do a little reading to better understand the current thinking that explains why women have rape fantasies, keep in mind it has NOTHING to do with 50 shades.


Live in whatever fantasy you choose, but when the OP states that since his wife read 50 Shades of Grey, she want's him to, *"choke her, slap her, spit on her, pull her hair, fast & hard"* (not before the book, but since she's been reading it), then I'd say she's in a book fantasy fog.

I'm not unfamiliar with assertive sex, in fact, it's my default sexual disposition, but I am concerned about a wife who chooses to be spat upon after (or during) the reading of a fictional book on the subject.

She's in book fog the same way a kid is a super hero for a few days after watching Spiderman.

Go ahead, choke the hell out of her and spit in her face, but beware, that's not called assertiveness, that's abuse... she'll remember that when the fog wears off.

T


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## DvlsAdvc8

Its not abuse if a person *wants* it done to them. Its just bdsm... and there are a lot of people who are turned on by it. It appears she wants to try it.


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## committed4ever

Caribbean Man said:


> My wife says the same thing.
> 
> Sometimes as I'm walking into the bedroom, she will stand on the bed and throw herself on me.
> She says that I'm strong and * _supposed_ * to catch her.





sandc said:


> This is what my wife likes. When I walk in and just pin her down so she can't move and take her. I love it too. Everybody wins.



Ding ding ding!

There ya go!


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## sandc

committed4ever said:


> Ding ding ding!
> 
> There ya go!


Ah! A woman of quality! :smthumbup:


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## ATC529R

funny thing about women who like it rough is the like love making too......lol

we just gotta be mind readers


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## DvlsAdvc8

^ truth


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## Anon Pink

maybe not mind readers... Test the waters like this:

Give her one or two light slaps on her bottom while you whisper in her ear, "later tonight you are mine!" Unless you've recently been an a$$, the heavy breathing and pink cheeks, not to mention ear to ear grin, will tell you how welcome that scenario is.


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## Faithful Wife

Or you could just tell your woman to woman up and that she needs to be able to express her own sexual desires. Sometimes simply telling her this gives her to courage to do so. If not, then you need to help her understand that if she wants to play rough, she has to clearly show that it is consentual.

Usually men don't want to play rough unless it is obvious the woman also wants this.

So if a woman does want this, she needs to be enough of a sexual adult to discuss it and make some provisions.


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## tacoma

killjoy said:


> how common is it for women to have rape fantasies? my wife says (to "spice" things up) she wants me to be rougher with her, i.e choke her, slap her, spit on her, pull her hair, fast & hard. I'm a little uncomfortable with what she's asking of me; it sounds like she wants me to rape her. did she just reveal a darker side of her personality or do a lot of women like being treated like this in the bedroom?
> 
> i'm confused, this just came out of nowhere. she's reading the 50 shades of grey books so maybe thats putting some thoughts into her head..


It's very common.

Google "Women's Top Sexual Fantasy".
You'll get a bunch of surveys with Rape Fantasy in the top 5 of every one.

Freaky really.


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## Anon Pink

Tony55 said:


> Live in whatever fantasy you choose, but when the OP states that since his wife read 50 Shades of Grey, she want's him to, *"choke her, slap her, spit on her, pull her hair, fast & hard"* (not before the book, but since she's been reading it), then I'd say she's in a book fantasy fog.
> 
> I'm not unfamiliar with assertive sex, in fact, it's my default sexual disposition, but I am concerned about a wife who chooses to be spat upon after (or during) the reading of a fictional book on the subject.
> 
> She's in book fog the same way a kid is a super hero for a few days after watching Spiderman.
> 
> Go ahead, choke the hell out of her and spit in her face, but beware, that's not called assertiveness, that's abuse... she'll remember that when the fog wears off.
> 
> T


You didn't even read the article did you? 

Okay so this scenario is off putting to you, and I don't blame you it is rather extreme for my tastes too but it doesn't mean there is anything wrong with entertaining it between CONSENTING adults. The book gave her permission to have the fantasy that has always been there. Some people find anal sex extreme, being tied up extreme, hot sauce on scrambled eggs extreme...I'm saying it may be extreme, but it doesn't mean there is anything wrong with it.

I can remember when I was a girl playing with kids I LOVED being chased, caught and tied up by the bad guys and especially loved being rescued by the good guy. Normal. 

A boy who wraps a cape around them selves and jumps off the couch after watching superman is entertaining his fantasy of being a superhero... Something MOST men strongly identify with.

Let your superhero come out to play, he has to teach the naughty lady not to put herself in risky situations...cause look what happens...:whip:


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## Created2Write

I wouldn't call it a "rape fantasy", per se. I trust my husband, but I know he would _never_ get aroused by taking away my free will. But I do like it rough. I like spankings. I like being put against the wall. I love being taken and seduced. I love, love, love to roleplay. H doesn't like roleplay as much as I do, but he's _very_ good at it.

I find spitting gross...but if both partners consent to it, I don't have an issue.


----------



## sandc

Roleplay is very fun


----------



## Created2Write

I like it. I can pretend to be someone I would never, ever be. It's fun.


----------



## sandc

I like it because it allows my wife and I to escape reality for a short time. We tend to do the same roles again and again. Hmmmmm.... I wonder what that's teaching us about ourselves? Are we in a rut or do we really wish we were those people. . Oh well, who cares? It's fun!


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Faithful Wife said:


> Usually men don't want to play rough unless it is obvious the woman also wants this.


Really?? Rough is on the front burner for me.

I don't think I've ever talked to anyone about whether it was going to be rough or lovey in advance. I just sort of wing it depending on my mood and the chemistry, and feeling of the moment. Wouldn't talking about it ruin the moment?


----------



## Created2Write

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Really?? Rough is on the front burner for me.
> 
> I don't think I've ever talked to anyone about whether it was going to be rough or lovey in advance. I just sort of wing it depending on my mood and the chemistry, and feeling of the moment. *Wouldn't talking about it ruin the moment?*


Yes! It totally does! Besides, I trust my husband. If, for some reason, I'm not okay with it rough, I quickly let him know and he pulls it back a little.


----------



## Faithful Wife

"Wouldn't talking about it ruin the moment?"

If you are bringing it to the table and she is responding positively, then usually there's no need to talk about it (unless the couple wants to).

My post was about women who want it but want their husband to mind read it. Women who want it but aren't sexually assertive enough to talk about. And this assumes the couple has not ever played like this before.

If it is there and fun from the get go, that is a different scenario.

It can still be fun to talk about it though.


----------



## Anon Pink

Depends on how much talk is involved in talking about it. Have you ever watched two little girls play Barbies?

"Okay now your Barbie asks mine to borrow a sweater..."
"Can I borrow a sweater?"
"Okay now your Barbie wants the pink one but my Barbie wants the pink one."

"Okay now your Barbie says she going to wear the pink gown..."
"okay now your Barbie doesn't want to drive in the corvette but wants the jeep and my Barbie is going to take the horse."

It's called cooperative play and too much verbal cooperation kills the play. One or both girls end up getting totally bored with the play. It isn't until they learn to communicate ideas and go with the flow that real imaginative role play comes out.

"Our Barbies live together and are getting ready to go out to dinner. But this time I want the horse, you can have the pink gown." And away they go..


----------



## Faithful Wife

Ok lets turn this around, then.

Man watches porn video including new types of sex he now has a fascination about and wants to try.

He tells his wife "I want to x, y, and z, and I want you to a, b, and c".

This is the first time husband has ever said anything like this and the wife has no clue how to execute the moves husband is talking about. Wife has some concerns as well, since the things husband wants to try are not things she also necessarily wants to try.

So....is the wife supposed to just figure out on her own how to have this new type of sex, while her husband waits impatiently for her to figure how to do this?

Or perhaps, both partners could embark on a learning experience together, including open and honest and SEXUAL discussions about what will need to happen....including perhaps the buying of certain sex toys together, etc.

Sorry, but I have experienced this in several different ways. Including the "oh I'm too girly to actually talk about my deepest desires" AND the "ok I'm assertive enough and randy enough to discuss these issues like an adult" and I wholeheartedly endorse the communication over the mind reading.

What I'm saying doesn't mean these things have to be discussed constantly DURING the act.


----------



## Horizon

killjoy said:


> how common is it for women to have rape fantasies? my wife says (to "spice" things up) she wants me to be rougher with her, i.e choke her, slap her, spit on her, pull her hair, fast & hard. I'm a little uncomfortable with what she's asking of me; it sounds like she wants me to rape her. did she just reveal a darker side of her personality or do a lot of women like being treated like this in the bedroom?
> 
> i'm confused, this just came out of nowhere. she's reading the 50 shades of grey books so maybe thats putting some thoughts into her head..


Spitting points to another aspect - degradation. Wow, the human mind. This sounds and is disgusting but I knew of a couple who ate each others excrement during the act. Unhygienic and just plain sick IMO. I can see the attraction in why you say and to be honest the rough house is, within reason, very satisfying.

Gee, you just made the penny drop for me. My cheating partner read the FSOG trilogy prior to and during her A. She even passed it around the family. More layers!


----------



## Caribbean Man

ATC529R said:


> funny thing about women who like it rough is the like love making too......lol
> 
> *we just gotta be mind readers*


LOl, ^^^ definitely YES!:rofl:


----------



## Tony55

Anon Pink said:


> The book gave her permission to have the fantasy *that has always been there*.


This you do not know, that's like saying the person who encourages another to try crack is only awakening a curiosity that's always been there.

A fictional book, does not permission make (assuming an adult needs to seek permission to begin with).

@Killjoy, report back with the details after you've slapped, choked and spit on your wife.

By the way, she's not asking to be raped, she's asking to be degraded and abused.

T


----------



## SouthernMiss

Tony55 said:


> This you do not know, that's like saying the person who encourages another to try crack is only awakening a curiosity that's always been there.
> 
> A fictional book, does not permission make (assuming an adult needs to seek permission to begin with).
> 
> @Killjoy, report back with the details after you've slapped, choked and spit on your wife.
> 
> By the way, she's not asking to be raped, she's asking to be degraded and abused.
> 
> T


I've been slapped, choked, pissed on and a whole lot more...it was degrading, true. But that's the point. It wasn't abuse though. It was entirely consensual.

Anybody attempting to enter the S&M world should do so slowly...you don't just jump right into the deep end on your first venture.


----------



## Tony55

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> I don't think I've ever talked to anyone about whether it was going to be rough or lovey in advance. I just sort of wing it depending on my mood and the chemistry, and feeling of the moment. Wouldn't talking about it ruin the moment?


You're absolutely correct on this, either you're the kind of guy who it comes naturally to or you're not, and the one who pretends to be the Christian Grey-ish type (staying within the context of the OP's wife's book fantasy), will not only come across as foolish, but will fail miserably.

Hint to OP and others: if your wife has to ask you to slap, choke and spit on her, you're probably not going to be too "good" at doing it.

T


----------



## Tony55

SouthernMiss said:


> I've been slapped, choked, pissed on and a whole lot more...it was degrading, true. But that's the point. It wasn't abuse though. It was entirely consensual.
> 
> Anybody attempting to enter the S&M world should do so slowly...you don't just jump right into the deep end on your first venture.


ABUSE:

A corrupt practice or custom
Improper or excessive use or treatment : misuse <drug abuse>
Obsolete : a deceitful act : deception
Language that condemns or vilifies usually unjustly, intemperately, and angrily
Physical maltreatment
Quoted from Merriam Webster

Slap, spit and choke are abusive, whether the person asks for it or not.

T


----------



## SouthernMiss

Tony55 said:


> ABUSE:
> 
> A corrupt practice or custom
> Improper or excessive use or treatment : misuse <drug abuse>
> Obsolete : a deceitful act : deception
> Language that condemns or vilifies usually unjustly, intemperately, and angrily
> Physical maltreatment
> Quoted from Merriam Webster
> 
> Slap, spit and choke are abusive, whether the person asks for it or not.
> 
> T


Nonsense. In the common usage of the term "abuse" - consensual sex is not abusive. 

But let's be technical 

A corrupt practice or custom? *No.*

Improper or excessive use or treatment : misuse *No. There was nothing improper or excessive about it lol It was juuuust right *

Obsolete : a deceitful act : deception* No.*

Language that condemns or vilifies usually unjustly, intemperately, and angrily* Nope.*

Physical maltreatment *No! I was treated exactly the way I wanted to be treated. "Mal" meaning "bad"..."bad treatment." NO.*


----------



## geo1981

I think what you wife wants is perfectly okay. 

You should be glad she told you, if there are things that you have fantasies about, things that you have always wanted to do, or try with her, this is the time to tell she. 

It will reassure her that hers is okay too.


----------



## Curse of Millhaven

killjoy said:


> how common is it for women to have rape fantasies? my wife says (to "spice" things up) she wants me to be rougher with her, i.e choke her, slap her, spit on her, pull her hair, fast & hard. I'm a little uncomfortable with what she's asking of me; it sounds like she wants me to rape her. did she just reveal a darker side of her personality or do a lot of women like being treated like this in the bedroom?
> 
> i'm confused, this just came out of nowhere. she's reading the 50 shades of grey books so maybe thats putting some thoughts into her head..


I think "rape fantasies" (emphasis on _fantasies_) are pretty common, but I don't really know if the acting out or roleplaying of "rape" is all that common, especially to the degree that your wife is requesting (i.e. choking, slapping, spitting). I haven't read that book but I think it's probably the impetus for her recent "dark side" sexual request.

What a lot of posters have described in their responses sound more like assertive or somewhat dominate sex rather than BDSM. Good dominant sex (which quite a few women enjoy) needs to be differentiated from "rape roleplaying" (which probably not as many women would enjoy). A lot of BDSM communities have even circumvented the whole "rape" issue by calling this kind of roleplaying "ravishment" to distinguish consensual "forced" sex from the actual horrific act of rape. Some within BDSM would even view the kind of "kink" that your wife is wanting to explore to "spice things up" as "edgeplay" since it is potentially dangerous (choking). So I would definitely proceed with caution and start off with "lighter fare", like maybe soft bondage or something that is not potentially fatal.

And any sexual act involving choking or hitting your partner should absolutely be discussed beforehand with boundaries clearly drawn and safe words established. I'm not judging what consenting adults enjoy sexually with each other, but even hardcore BDSM people advocate "safe, sane, consensual". And you should never feel pressured into doing something that is beyond your comfort level. If you truly don't feel comfortable with her request you should be honest with her. If anything, her admission should be used as a springboard for an open discussion about your sex lives. Good luck...and be safe!


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

People read words like "choking" and interpret entirely different things I think. When I think "choking", I think of simply holding her down by the neck with pressure, not actually "choking" as in cutting off bloodflow and air supply. It becomes more difficult to breath and its aggressive, even somewhat violent, but its not cutting off air and releasing so she's gasping for breath. Taken further, there are women who enjoy the cutting off of air supply... which can induce a euphoric state that enhances an orgasm. That's far beyond what I think your average woman wants when she says she wants to be choked.

From what I gather from women I've been with, its just a physical domination fantasy... the fact that men are more muscular is attractive to them... and they want that physicality brought to bear in desire of them. Pretty cool because I feel extra manly afterwards too. lol

Cave man takes it.

Some on the other hand, really want to be submissive and "owned". If I were in OPs shoes and this wasn't really my forte, I'd just take a toe-dipping approach. Jump in head first and you'll probably feel retarded and she'll feel it too. Start by just tying her up or making her do what you want. Step out of the regular good person you are and fantasize that you're a megalomaniac who always gets what he wants. Dream up anything you want just for her to obey.... keep a straight face. lol Read up on training your slave. Roleplay, dom/sub, all this stuff, can be a lot of fun. 

The awesome part is that if she wants this with you, its because she trusts you completely and is very comfortable knowing that you actually do respect her.


----------



## wilson

I wonder if the rape fantasy is a way for the woman to allow herself to be taken in a very sexual way without worrying about how society thinks women should behave. Maybe she's conflicted because she has strong sexual feelings, but society tells her she should be restrained. When she's dominated, it allows her to not feel responsible. It's not that she's instigating these sexual acts. It's that they are being forced upon her. This way she can enjoy extreme sexual experiences without being labeled in a derogatory way.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Wilson....so you didn't read any of the other responses or the many links that were provided? IOW, um, yeah.


----------



## sandc

One of the things I really LOVE about my wife as she ages is her sexual awakening. The older she gets, the more relaxed she is about what she wants sexually. She's not so uptight about it. She actually enjoys being slntty in the bedroom now. She's apologetic about it. "You mean you don't mind?" This really is a revelation to her. "No sweetie, I don't mind at all. I've been praying for this!" She's not afraid to ask for what she wants, not afraid of trying things now. She has finally gotten in touch with her inner slnt.


----------



## Caribbean Man

sandc said:


> One of the things I really LOVE about my wife as she ages is her sexual awakening. The older she gets, the more relaxed she is about what she wants sexually. She's not so uptight about it. She actually enjoys being slntty in the bedroom now. She's apologetic about it. "You mean you don't mind?" This really is a revelation to her. "No sweetie, I don't mind at all. I've been praying for this!" She's not afraid to ask for what she wants, not afraid of trying things now. She has finally gotten in touch with her inner slnt.


^^^
Sounds like my wife.
Like fine wine, she get better with age!


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

You guys are lucky. My ex wife regressed. She was a virgin at 18 when I met her and had a sexual explosion that lasted for years. Then we had kids and she went damn near asexual.

In response to one new kinky thing I came up with, she said "I can't do that!" I asked why, and she literally said "That's not something people our age do... that's like teenagery... I'm a mom now!"

This was the clincher for me that she was in a big rush to be stereotypically "old". Terribly serious, stuffy, and boring. I know she didn't intend to, but boy did it feel like a bait and switch.


----------



## sandc

Dang dude.


----------



## diwali123

How long after that did you divorce her?


----------



## Anon Pink

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> You guys are lucky. My ex wife regressed. She was a virgin at 18 when I met her and had a sexual explosion that lasted for years. Then we had kids and she went damn near asexual.
> 
> In response to one new kinky thing I came up with, she said "I can't do that!" I asked why, and she literally said "That's not something people our age do... that's like teenagery... I'm a mom now!"
> 
> This was the clincher for me that she was in a big rush to be stereotypically "old". Terribly serious, stuffy, and boring. I know she didn't intend to, but boy did it feel like a bait and switch.


How old is your wife and how old are your kids?


----------



## bfree

My wife never read 50 Shades but years ago she revealed to me that she does get aroused by the thought of being taken. Not so much a rape fantasy because she said she never imagines its anyone else but me. But she does enjoy the more primal side of sex because as she said it makes her feel as if she is so desirable that I just HAVE to have her.


----------



## northland

bfree said:


> My wife never read 50 Shades but years ago she revealed to me that she does get aroused by the thought of being taken. Not so much a rape fantasy because she said she never imagines its anyone else but me.


Consider the possibility, however remote, that she adds the part about it only being you so as not to hurt your feelings.


----------



## Hailey2009

Amen, Northland. Hard to resist kicking the fantasy up a notch by slipping someone else into the picture. Sorry hubbies. We still love you.


----------



## committed4ever

northland said:


> Consider the possibility, however remote, that she adds the part about it only being you so as not to hurt your feelings.


Not me. It's never anybody else. That would be a tragedy.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: Rape Fantasy*



northland said:


> Consider the possibility, however remote, that she adds the part about it only being you so as not to hurt your feelings.


I seriously doubt it because if she did say it was someone else it wouldn't bother me in the least. She knows this and it's been the case before. I don't need the ego boost. Plus we have always been open and honest with each other. If she choose to keep that part of her fantasy a secret than so be it. I still don't care since it's only a fantasy.


----------



## Viseral

committed4ever said:


> I must admit, I want to tell my H no, but then I want him to TAKE IT anyway. But don't hit me or anything, just over power me with his sheer strength.
> 
> I'm just too HD to get to the point of saying no ...


Great, radical feminists blame men for "rape culture", but it's common for women to have rape fantasies.

As if understanding the female psyche wasn't hard enough already?!?!?!


----------



## sandc

Hailey2009 said:


> Amen, Northland. Hard to resist kicking the fantasy up a notch by slipping someone else into the picture. Sorry hubbies. We still love you.


We did that for years. It took a toll on us we never would have suspected. Now it's all us. Even in our heads.


----------



## Thundarr

There's a reason we don't have fantasy police. There's nothing wrong with consensual mental foreplay.

I think rape (taken lustfully and roughly) fantasy is by far the most common. Me and Mrs T general like "innocent or naive girl seduced" type stuff and it fits in that category.


----------



## EleGirl

Thundarr said:


> There's a reason we don't have fantasy police. There's nothing wrong with consensual mental foreplay.
> 
> I think rape (taken lustfully and roughly) fantasy is by far the most common. Me and Mrs T general like "innocent or naive girl seduced" type stuff and it fits in that category.


Yea, I like it lustful and rough sometimes. I do not consider that rape or rape fantasy. I consider this seduction at it's hottest.

The OP's wife wants him to hit her, spit on her and otherwise degrade her. Wanting to be degraded is something completely different and beyond anything I'd want for sure.


----------



## Thundarr

EleGirl said:


> Yea, I like it lustful and rough sometimes. I do not consider that rape or rape fantasy. I consider this seduction at it's hottest.
> 
> *The OP's wife wants him to hit her, spit on her and otherwise degrade her.* Wanting to be degraded is something completely different and beyond anything I'd want for sure.


Yea I'd have a hard time doing those things whether she wanted it or not. Sounds like OP is the one who needs the safe word; not his wife.


----------



## JCD

Didn't read the whole thread. I've said this before.

I think there is a subconscious 'hesitation' in some women where they think wanting sex or giving up sex is 'unseemly or low brow'. But as living breathing procreative entities, their alligator brain 'want sex now'.

One way they justify these two competing drives is mental rape fantasies. It is always some powerful 'eventually acceptable to mom' man who just MAKES her have sex. She can still be a 'good girl' and yet still get her itch scratched since she has no free will.

It's sort of like that subsection of women who want to get drunk before sex so they can blame the booze and not sweaty panties.

This is becoming less common, but I believe it's still out there.


----------



## Thundarr

JCD said:


> One way they justify these two competing drives is mental rape fantasies. It is always some powerful 'eventually acceptable to mom' man who just MAKES her have sex. She can still be a 'good girl' and yet still get her itch scratched since she has no free will.


You make it sound like a bad thing. I think fantasy in the bedroom on occasion is awesome. Especially when I think up a good story in advance. I mean there's a lot of turn ons not allowed in real life that make hot sex as a story. One thing I've learned over the years is I come up with the story and she'll enjoy it but she won't come up with the story. Also, less is more. Set the stage and then play the character. Too much talk kills the mood . She's almost embarrassed to admit which ones she likes more or less which I find cute as hell. And somewhat ironic considering some of the smut I come up with.


----------



## committed4ever

Viseral said:


> Great, radical feminists blame men for "rape culture", but it's common for women to have rape fantasies.
> 
> As if understanding the female psyche wasn't hard enough already?!?!?!


I'm not a feminist. Nor radical. Just a little unconventional.


----------



## Created2Write

committed4ever said:


> Not me. It's never anybody else. That would be a tragedy.


Same here. My husband turns me on more than anyone else ever could. Why would I ruin a perfect moment by imagining someone else?


----------



## PreRaphaelite

I had two girlfriends that enjoyed the rape fantasy, just not every time. There was nothing abnormal about it. It was as exciting as hell. But we trusted each other. I don't think either of them would enjoy it with someone doing it to them for real.

WIth one, I remember us were fooling around and somehow the idea of me ripping her favorite panties off her and raping her good came up, when she suddenly said, "Well maybe that's what I want." I came in like 30 seconds I was so excited, especially when she told me how great a rapist I was. :FIREdevil::FIREdevil:

I'm a relatively gentle lover too.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

diwali123 said:


> How long after that did you divorce her?


Maybe a year later.



Anon Pink said:


> How old is your wife and how old are your kids?


32, 6 and 2.


----------



## Curse of Millhaven

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> People read words like "choking" and interpret entirely different things I think. When I think "choking", I think of simply holding her down by the neck with pressure, not actually "choking" as in cutting off bloodflow and air supply. It becomes more difficult to breath and its aggressive, even somewhat violent


Good times.



DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Taken further, there are women who enjoy the cutting off of air supply... which can induce a euphoric state that enhances an orgasm. That's far beyond what I think your average woman wants when she says she wants to be choked.


Does the "average woman" really ask to be choked though? I'd wager that you know more about what women (average or otherwise) are requesting sexually; seems you've done the leg work. So I'll have to take your word for it that a lot of women want to be held down by their necks and/or "choked". Taken in context with "slapping and spitting" from the original post when I read "choking" I thought "wrapping hands around her neck and cutting off her air supply". In other words...choking. Which I think should at least be approached with caution as it is in fact dangerous, no?

Honestly I have no problem with what the OP's wife requested, but I still think they should talk about it beforehand and establish ground rules. I've never been choked during sex and am open-minded enough to concede that I might be missing out on something truly mind blowing and breathtaking (see what I did there!), but I'm still close-minded enough to think I would need to approach it very cautiously and with lots of discussion beforehand. But to each their own. Truthfully I wouldn't make it two minutes in the BDSM world. I'm way too innocent and submissive. That would be like throwing a wobbly baby chick into a ring of hungry wolves. 

So my POV in all of this might be utter sh!t. I'm fully prepared to accept that possibility.


----------



## Tony55

SouthernMiss said:


> Nonsense. In the common usage of the term "abuse" - consensual sex is not abusive.
> 
> But let's be technical
> 
> A corrupt practice or custom? *No.*
> 
> Improper or excessive use or treatment : misuse *No. There was nothing improper or excessive about it lol It was juuuust right *
> 
> Obsolete : a deceitful act : deception* No.*
> 
> Language that condemns or vilifies usually unjustly, intemperately, and angrily* Nope.*
> 
> Physical maltreatment *No! I was treated exactly the way I wanted to be treated. "Mal" meaning "bad"..."bad treatment." NO.*


Spitting on a person, choking a person and slapping a person (in the face, not a smack on the butt) is not sex, and *I believe* people who consider that behavior to be sex, and not some deeper psychological issue, are simply fooling themselves.

I believe:

Spitting on another human is a "corrupt practice".
Choking another human is "improper treatment".
Slapping and choking are "physical maltreatment".

Nowhere does it say if these things are desired by the recipient that it is not abusive.

*I also believe* if spitting on, slapping the face of, or choking a woman causes a man to get an erection, then abuse of another human has somehow worked its way into his mind as something sexual, and I believe that to be an unhealthy frame of mind.

*I also believe* that the OP's wife was influenced by a fictional book, that caused her not to ask for a rape fantasy (which I would understand), but instead caused her to ask to be abused by her husband, which I think, in the long run, will cause more harm in the marriage than good if administered.

Calling something consensual isn't a free ticket to do whatever you please and expect to come out on the other end with your original self respect and dignity.

OP, (if you're reading still) do yourself and your wife a favor, don't spit on her, the few here that say 'go ahead, no problem' are the exception, not the rule.

T


----------



## Anon Pink

Tony, no one likes to be judged. Sexuality is strange and highly varied. What one person enjoys another does not. There is no wrong in safe, sane and consentual. You have raised good points in that the extreme behavior asked for needs to be carefully considered and talked about. But it is assumed, between a husband and a wife, that they know each other well enough, have a solid foundation of trust and are able to communicate effectively enough that the scenario the OP posted about can be a rich and rewarding experience.

You're just plane wrong about women's sexuality. Reading erotica, such as 50 shades and a multitude of others, simply expands the eroticism. Literature touches and awakens the possibility of what's already there.

I can read about fishing but it wouldn't make me want to spend an afternoon doing it, even if it was salaciously written!


----------



## treyvion

Anon Pink said:


> 25-40% of women ENDORSE rape fantasy. Meaning they not only have rape fantasy they admit to having it. Thats a very important distinction. I read a Kinsey report that 70% of women have rape fantasy.
> 
> You have to understand the distinction between real rape and rape fantasy. The difference is like drinking a glass of wine or drinking a glass of rubbing alcohol!
> 
> Our culture encourages strong women. Strong women tend to have dominant or assertive personalities. Those women tend to have the rape fantasies in which they give up sexual control, they willingly (pretend it to be unwilling) submit sexually to a partner who is so overcome by his ardor that he doesn't seek consent and is unable to be gentle. Thats the psychological turn on for women with rape fantasy. "I am so damn hot you are out of control and a sexual beast."


Some are dominant to the point that they want to dominate every guesture and interaction, so you will get put in jail for being assertive sexually as a man.


----------



## Anon Pink

If a man is put in jail for being sexually dominant, it had stopped being safe, sane and consented to. This isn't that hard to understand. 

Talk it out, ask questions, agree to limits, agree to safe words, agree to the general mood, agree about the goal, ask more questions... Not rocket science here!


----------



## Curse of Millhaven

Tony55 said:


> Spitting on a person, choking a person and slapping a person (in the face, not a smack on the butt) is not sex, and *I believe* people who consider that behavior to be sex, and not some deeper psychological issue, are simply fooling themselves.
> 
> I believe:
> 
> Spitting on another human is a "corrupt practice".
> Choking another human is "improper treatment".
> Slapping and choking are "physical maltreatment".
> 
> Nowhere does it say if these things are desired by the recipient that it is not abusive.
> 
> *I also believe* if spitting on, slapping the face of, or choking a woman causes a man to get an erection, then abuse of another human has somehow worked its way into his mind as something sexual, and I believe that to be an unhealthy frame of mind.
> 
> *I also believe* that the OP's wife was influenced by a fictional book, that caused her not to ask for a rape fantasy (which I would understand), but instead caused her to ask to be abused by her husband, which I think, in the long run, will cause more harm in the marriage than good if administered.
> 
> Calling something consensual isn't a free ticket to do whatever you please and expect to come out on the other end with your original self respect and dignity.
> 
> OP, (if you're reading still) do yourself and your wife a favor, don't spit on her, the few here that say 'go ahead, no problem' are the exception, not the rule.
> 
> T


Personally for me in my life I agree with everything that you've written. But I endeavor to be open-minded and nonjudgmental of others' sexual predilections (between consenting adults, of course). When I said I had "no problem" with what the OP's wife requested I wasn't implying "yeah! go choke the b!tch out!"; I was striving to be nonjudgmental of her proclivities and made sure to include the caveat of "discuss it beforehand and set limits". I have said that in both of my posts here. Others were advising not to discuss it beforehand because that would "kill the mood" for erotic choking. Kill the mood, indeed! I advocated caution, discussing the issue, and that he should not feel compelled to do something he is not comfortable doing simply because she requested it. 

Maybe it's as Anon Pink suggests...maybe reading that book "freed" his wife to let her inner "freak flag" fly. I don't know. I've yet to encounter a book that would sway me to desire being spat on, slapped, or choked. Everyone is different; one person's inspirational erotica is another person's wasted tree. But I do try to be tolerant of others' sexuality even if it doesn't correspond with mine. I don't always succeed, but I at least try.

However, I do think BDSM can go too far and I do continue to advocate caution and frank discussions. This case is what lead me to even research BDSM/abuse in the first place...

Swedish man to stand trial for 'Fifty Shades of Grey' sado-masochistic sex game death of his girlfriend | Mail Online

The OP hasn't come back since he first posted his query here. Maybe he's already been arrested for attempted manslaughter for diving in hands first and erotically strangling his wife. We may never know...or we might if he makes bail.


----------



## Anon Pink

:rofl:


----------



## Thundarr

Anon Pink said:


> Tony, no one likes to be judged. Sexuality is strange and highly varied. *What one person enjoys another does not. There is no wrong in safe, sane and consentual. You have raised good points in that the extreme behavior asked for needs to be carefully considered and talked about. But it is assumed, between a husband and a wife, that they know each other well enough, have a solid foundation of trust and are able to communicate effectively enough that the scenario the OP posted about can be a rich and rewarding experience.*
> 
> You're just plane wrong about women's sexuality. Reading erotica, such as 50 shades and a multitude of others, simply expands the eroticism. Literature touches and awakens the possibility of what's already there.
> 
> I can read about fishing but it wouldn't make me want to spend an afternoon doing it, even if it was salaciously written!


I agree with all of this but mostly with the highlighted section. It's not my place or anyone else's place to judge a couple because they like kinky sex or vanilla sex. It's their thing.


----------



## Tony55

Anon Pink said:


> But it is assumed, between a husband and a wife, that they know each other well enough, have a solid foundation of trust and are able to communicate effectively enough that the scenario the OP posted about can be a rich and rewarding experience.





killjoy said:


> I'm a little uncomfortable with what she's asking of me; it sounds like she wants me to rape her. did she just reveal a darker side of her personality...


I'd say it can't be _"assumed"_ the OP and his wife _"know each other well enough"_ to _"communicate effectively"_ his or her desires.

T


----------



## treyvion

Anon Pink said:


> If a man is put in jail for being sexually dominant, it had stopped being safe, sane and consented to. This isn't that hard to understand.
> 
> Talk it out, ask questions, agree to limits, agree to safe words, agree to the general mood, agree about the goal, ask more questions... Not rocket science here!


It could have been perfectly safe...

He could have "led the ballroom dance" without verbally announcing his intensions. So he kiss her, guide her to the bed or where they are going to have sex, remove the shirt or pants, open the legs up and go to town, she has a slight resistance, which breaks as he penetrates and turns into pleasure.


----------



## Anon Pink

Tony55 said:


> I'd say it can't be _"assumed"_ the OP and his wife _"know each other well enough"_ to _"communicate effectively"_ his or her desires.
> 
> T


Then why did the OP post here in the first place? 

Obviously she communicated effectively to him, her wants and desires. He came here to seek some measure of acceptance that what he was being asked to do, would still fall under the realm of loving his wife. 

Can a man love his wife AND give her the kind of sex she desires? I say, he better!


----------



## Tony55

Anon Pink said:


> Then why did the OP post here in the first place?
> 
> Obviously she communicated effectively to him, her wants and desires. He came here to seek some measure of acceptance that what he was being asked to do, would still fall under the realm of loving his wife.
> 
> Can a man love his wife AND give her the kind of sex she desires? I say, he better!


Can a woman love her husband and respect his limits in the bedroom? I say, she better.

T


----------



## janefw

treyvion said:


> It could have been perfectly safe...
> 
> He could have "led the ballroom dance" without verbally announcing his intensions. So he kiss her, guide her to the bed or where they are going to have sex, remove the shirt or pants, open the legs up and go to town, she has a slight resistance, which breaks as he penetrates and turns into pleasure.


Okay, that may be what you see in the movies -that a woman resists - and then OH, such pleasure, but in reality if a woman has resistance, you better darn STOP. Otherwise that is not a rape 'fantasy' it is a rape.

Tony 55, I have agreed with you all the way through this thread. The voice of sanity!


----------



## treyvion

janefw said:


> Okay, that may be what you see in the movies -that a woman resists - and then OH, such pleasure, but in reality if a woman has resistance, you better darn STOP. Otherwise that is not a rape 'fantasy' it is a rape.
> 
> Tony 55, I have agreed with you all the way through this thread. The voice of sanity!


Some of us male and females like this level of intensity. Of course if she says NO and really means it, then you stop.

I don't know how many times I've had intercourse where the intiial response was "not now" and I physically led the dance that lead to pleasure. This is with someone you are with.

It's the same if the shoe is on the other foot. The husband is busy, not really trying to do anything, and she presses her way until he gives in and enjoys it.

It's not putting a gun to someones head, or over powering them completely against their will. 

This day and age I'm scared to be sexually assertive, because you even have people out there who are trying to get something on you. So scared that you insist the women initiates it all.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Tony55 said:


> Can a woman love her husband and respect his limits in the bedroom? I say, she better.
> 
> T


I agree with the sentiments of your posts.

But these things can be tricky sometimes....


----------



## Created2Write

See, this is why communication is _so_ important. Part of the rape fantasy is a certain level of resistance. The idea of no longer being in control...of the husband desiring his wife so much that he just has to have her. And in the safe confinements of a mutually respectful and loving marriage, where they both have a safe word to identify when the resistance is no longer faked, neither has to worry about disrespecting the other or crossing boundaries. So long as they both adhere to the mutually agreed upon safe word and other boundaries, there shouldn't be issues. 

But doing things one spouse isn't comfortable with isn't mutual, so it _will_ present issues. If the OP is uncomfortable with certain things involved in bondism, they he needs to voice his objections clearly so that they can decide what is acceptable and what isn't.


----------



## Anon Pink

Tony55 said:


> Can a woman love her husband and respect his limits in the bedroom? I say, she better.
> 
> T


okay so your wife probably knows not to ask such things of you because that is over the line FOR YOU! Since OP hasn't come back, we don't know what his limits are and it's best not to project YOUR limits on someone else!

I think you need a spanking for being so damn argumentative!


----------



## Sunshine Cadillac

killjoy said:


> how common is it for women to have rape fantasies? my wife says (to "spice" things up) she wants me to be rougher with her, i.e choke her, slap her, spit on her, pull her hair, fast & hard. I'm a little uncomfortable with what she's asking of me; it sounds like she wants me to rape her. did she just reveal a darker side of her personality or do a lot of women like being treated like this in the bedroom?
> 
> i'm confused, this just came out of nowhere. she's reading the 50 shades of grey books so maybe thats putting some thoughts into her head..


Its not rape if both parties are both consenting to the actions. I definitely want to read 50 shades of grey  I personally do not like or enjoy being treated like trash in the bedroom, so this isnt something that I would want or to enjoy but doesnt mean that someone else wouldnt enjoy it.


----------



## Tony55

Anon Pink said:


> ...we don't know what his limits are and it's best not to project YOUR limits on someone else!





killjoy said:


> I'm a little uncomfortable with what she's asking of me...


Evidently OP's limits begin somewhere around slap, spit, and choke.

T


----------



## Anon Pink

Tony55 said:


> Evidently OP's limits begin somewhere around slap, spit, and choke.
> 
> T


And for some women anal is out of the question, others are uncomfortable about it, and still others keep silicone lube in their night stands! And yet anal remains a personal choice based on communication and trust.


----------



## tacoma

janefw said:


> Okay, that may be what you see in the movies -that a woman resists - and then OH, such pleasure, but in reality if a woman has resistance, you better darn STOP. Otherwise that is not a rape 'fantasy' it is a rape.


Damn, I guess I'm raping my wife at least once a week.


----------



## treyvion

tacoma said:


> Damn, I guess I'm raping my wife at least once a week.


Don't tell on yourself
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## dallasapple

[QUOTEThis page:


Rape:


A criminal offense defined in most states as forcible sexual relations with a person against that person's will.][/QUOTE]

If its not "against your will" its not rape.So desiring something (a certain kind of sex) is an oxymoron to rape.Calling it "rape fantasy" is an affront to victims of rape.

If its not only within your "will" but desired whatever you do sexually you can never call it "rape".I mean not even close.

Rape is not about feeling desired its about being completley violated.Rape is not about overwhelming passion by your rapist its about helplessness powerlessness and being robbed of any autotonomy to decide for yourself.Its about having your choice taken away.So if you "choose' what you claim you don't want you have taken out the "rape' experience".Rape is not "wanted" under any circumstances because the definition has to be "against your will" "wanting" is within your will.

Also have yet to meet a man that takes kindly wearing the badge of "rapist".Why not? thought is was a good thing?

Degrade (wantingly) one another ASK to be hit held down ?Not rape not even close.Because if you want it ? Its not RAPE.Its something else.Not even close to rape.You don't get up from being raped feeling good /desired or anything else but completely violated.

There is NOTHING good that comes from the ramifications of being raped but for maybe rape victims can help each other try to overcome it.

Hearing rape is a "turn on" and I "want to be raped" makes my stomach turn.Rape is evil.Period.


----------



## treyvion

dallasapple said:


> [QUOTEThis page:
> 
> 
> Rape:
> 
> 
> A criminal offense defined in most states as forcible sexual relations with a person against that person's will.]


If its not "against your will" its not rape.So desiring something (a certain kind of sex) is an oxymoron to rape.Calling it "rape fantasy" is an affront to victims of rape.

If its not only within your "will" but desired whatever you do sexually you can never call it "rape".I mean not even close.

Rape is not about feeling desired its about being completley violated.Rape is not about overwhelming passion by your rapist its about helplessness powerlessness and being robbed of any autotonomy to decide for yourself.Its about having your choice taken away.So if you "choose' what you claim you don't want you have taken out the "rape' experience".Rape is not "wanted" under any circumstances because the definition has to be "against your will" "wanting" is within your will.

Also have yet to meet a man that takes kindly wearing the badge of "rapist".Why not? thought is was a good thing?

Degrade (wantingly) one another ASK to be hit held down ?Not rape not even close.Because if you want it ? Its not RAPE.Its something else.Not even close to rape.You don't get up from being raped feeling good /desired or anything else but completely violated.

There is NOTHING good that comes from the ramifications of being raped but for maybe rape victims can help each other try to overcome it.

Hearing rape is a "turn on" and I "want to be raped" makes my stomach turn.Rape is evil.Period.[/QUOTE]

I don't think our poster is raping anyone. However if someone wanted to blow it out of proportion, they could and he would be in jail and life ruined.

But then again, he doesn't even have to touch her and she could do the same thing to him.


----------



## Will_Kane

Rape fantasy is nothing new and has been researched for many years.

_Rape fantasy is a common sexual fantasy among both men and women. The fantasy may involve the fantasist as either the one being forced into sex or as the perpetrator. Some studies have found that women tend to fantasize about being forced or coerced into sexual activity more commonly than men. A 1974 study by Hariton and Singer found that being "overpowered or forced to surrender" was the second most frequent fantasy in their survey; a 1984 study by Knafo and Jaffe ranked being overpowered as their study's most common fantasy during intercourse; and a 1988 study by Pelletier and Herold found that over half of their female respondents had fantasies of forced sex. Other studies have found the theme, but with lower frequency and popularity. However, these female fantasies do not necessarily imply that the subject desires to be forced into non-consensual sex in reality – the fantasies often contain romantic images where the woman imagines herself being seduced, and the male that she imagines is desirable. Most importantly, the woman remains in full control of her fantasy. The fantasies do not usually involve the woman getting hurt. Conversely, some women who have been sexually victimized in the past report unwanted sexual fantasies, similar to flashbacks of their victimization. They are realistic, and the woman may recall the physical and psychological pain involved.

The most frequently cited hypothesis for why women fantasize of being forced and coerced into some sexual activity is that the fantasy avoids societally induced guilt—the woman does not have to admit responsibility for her sexual desires and behavior. A 1978 study by Moreault and Follingstad was consistent with this hypothesis, and found that women with high levels of sex guilt were more likely to report fantasy themed around being overpowered, dominated, and helpless. In contrast, Pelletier and Herold used a different measure of guilt and found no correlation. Other research suggests that women who report forced sex fantasies have a more positive attitude towards sexuality, contradicting the guilt hypothesis. A 1998 study by Strassberg and Lockerd found that women who fantasized about force were generally less guilty and more erotophilic, and as a result had more frequent and more varied fantasies. Additionally, it said that force fantasies are clearly not the most common or the most frequent.

45.8% of men in a 1980 study reported fantasizing during heterosexual intercourse about "a scene where [they had] the impression of being raped by a woman" (3.2% often and 42.6% sometimes), 44.7% of scenes where a seduced woman "pretends resisting" and 33% of raping a woman. Where male rape fantasies centre around raping rather than being raped, they may bring sexual arousal either from imagining a scene in which first a woman objects but then comes to like and eventually participate in the intercourse, or else one in which the woman does not like it and arousal is associated with the idea of hurting the woman.

A study of college-age women found over half had engaged in fantasies of rape or coercion which, another study claims, are within the normal range of female sexuality.

One form of sexual roleplaying is the rape fantasy, also called ravishment or forced sex roleplay. Ravishment has become a more preferred term in BDSM circles, as it makes a distinction between consensual roleplay and non-consensual assault. Though consensuality is an important component of sexual roleplay, the illusion of non-consensuality (i.e., rape) is important to maintaining the fantasy. Crossing the line may constitute an assault.

Since the illusion of non-consensuality is important to the fantasy, one or more safewords are typically employed. This way, a participant can protest without stopping the scene, unless the safeword is used. Often a variation on the "stop-light" system is used, with different colors designating different messages: "red" to stop everything, "yellow" to slow down or take it easy, and so forth. For scenes where there is an element of surprise, the top or "ravisher" may use a "startword" or other identifying signal.

In consensual ravishment scenes, all participants carefully negotiate what will transpire beforehand. Limits are respected and made very clear, to maintain safe, sane and consensual play. Such negotiation would also include discussion of emotional issues for both partners, especially if there has been a prior history of actual sexual abuse or assault._​


----------



## dallasapple

> I don't think our poster is raping anyone. However if someone wanted to blow it out of proportion, they could and he would be in jail and life ruined.
> 
> But then again, he doesn't even have to touch her and she could do the same thing to him.


Then stop calling it "rape" .Fantasy(desired) actually negates that its rape.Wanted and consentual is NOT rape.Call it "I like to pretend I'm being raped when I'm not"...Anything but "rape fantasy".

I know the difference.


----------



## Created2Write

dallasapple said:


> [QUOTEThis page:
> 
> 
> Rape:
> 
> 
> A criminal offense defined in most states as forcible sexual relations with a person against that person's will.]


If its not "against your will" its not rape.So desiring something (a certain kind of sex) is an oxymoron to rape.Calling it "rape fantasy" is an affront to victims of rape.

If its not only within your "will" but desired whatever you do sexually you can never call it "rape".I mean not even close.[/quote]

That's why it's a rape "fantasy". Like roleplaying. I can roleplay with my husband and pretend we're having a ONS, but we're obviously not really having a ONS. That's why it's a fantasy...not real. 



> Rape is not about feeling desired its about being completley violated.Rape is not about overwhelming passion by your rapist its about helplessness powerlessness and being robbed of any autotonomy to decide for yourself.Its about having your choice taken away.So if you "choose' what you claim you don't want you have taken out the "rape' experience".Rape is not "wanted" under any circumstances because the definition has to be "against your will" "wanting" is within your will.


Yeah, I think we all understand the definition of rape.  The point is that it's a _fantasy_. Not real. Fake. Pretend. No one wants to actually be raped. Not that I know of, at least. But pretending, roleplaying, takes the danger, the force, the pain, the emotional damaging out of the scenario. 



> Also have yet to meet a man that takes kindly wearing the badge of "rapist".Why not? thought is was a good thing?


Now you're being ridiculous. 



> Degrade (wantingly) one another ASK to be hit held down ?Not rape not even close.Because if you want it ? Its not RAPE.Its something else.Not even close to rape.You don't get up from being raped feeling good /desired or anything else but completely violated.


No, it isn't rape. No one has said it is. That's why it's a *fantasy*. 

Fantasy: "imagination, especially when extravagant and unrestrained."

Fantasize: " verb (used with object)
2. to create in one's fancy, daydreams, or the like; imagine"



> There is NOTHING good that comes from the ramifications of being raped but for maybe rape victims can help each other try to overcome it.


Of course not. Rape is horrible. No one is trying to suggest otherwise.



> Hearing rape is a "turn on" and I "want to be raped" makes my stomach turn.Rape is evil.Period.


Of course rape is evil. No one has said otherwise because, again, no one here is talking about actual rape.


----------



## diwali123

You can't ask someone to steal what you are giving away for free.


----------



## dallasapple

> The most frequently cited hypothesis for why women fantasize of being forced and coerced into some sexual activity is that the fantasy avoids societally induced guilt—the woman does not have to admit responsibility for her sexual desires and behavior.


Sad...Still its not rape.

What I'm saying is ..rape by definition it FORCED unwanted (agaisnt your will ) sex. How would that involve her "desire"?It cant.If it does no RAPE occured.


----------



## Created2Write

dallasapple said:


> Then stop calling it "rape" .Fantasy(desired) actually negates that its rape.Wanted and consentual is NOT rape.Call it "I like to pretend I'm being raped when I'm not"...Anything but "rape fantasy".
> 
> I know the difference.


They're the same thing. A rape fantasy is when one partner pretends to rape the other within the confinements of a healthy, respectful and mutual sexual relationship.


----------



## dallasapple

diwali123 said:


> You can't ask someone to steal what you are giving away for free.


Exactly..

Thats like saying I want you to steal 20$ from me.The person complies and then you say "I was stolen from"

Maybe you (not you specifically)

Would have needed to actually been raped to know how ludicrous it is to say "I want to be raped"?

Its a bunch of bull.


----------



## dallasapple

Created2Write said:


> They're the same thing. A rape fantasy is when one partner pretends to rape the other within the confinements of a healthy, respectful and mutual sexual relationship.


But rape has NOTHING to do with "healthy ,respect,and mutual " so how can it be anything remoteley relating to rape?

You don't get what RAPE is .That's more like fun loving mutual sex both want..do not call it "rape fantasy" .Rape isn't even close to that.Not even close.

Do NOT call it rape.


----------



## Created2Write

So now a rape fantasy is the same as saying they actually want to be raped?

Apparently some don't understand the meaning of "fantasy". It's called pretend. A little girl can pretend to be a Princess, she can have the dress, the tiara, the custom dress, the shoes, the mini-throne and the plastic jewelry...it doesn't make her a Princess. It's just pretend. 

A woman can have a rape fantasy without actually wanting to be raped; she can want the bondage, the pretend lack of free will, all within the safety of her relationship when both agree on safe words, because it _is_ easy for lines to be crossed if such situations aren't approached properly.


----------



## Created2Write

dallasapple said:


> But rape has NOTHING to do with "healthy ,respect,and mutual " so how can it be anything remoteley relating to rape?
> 
> You don't get what RAPE is .That's more like fun loving mutual sex both want..do not call it "rape fantasy" .Rape isn't even close to that.Not even close.
> 
> Do NOT call it rape.


You don't get what FANTASY is. No one is calling it "rape", they're calling it "fantasy". Pretend. Not real. Not accurate. Pretend. Fake. 

You don't get decide what things are and what they aren't. No, rape fantasy isn't actually rape. But no one is saying it is. That's why the word fantasy is in place, to specify that what is desired is NOT real rape. It's a fantasy version, a version that doesn't really exist. As you said, there's nothing good about rape, which is why this is a FANTASY.


----------



## that_girl

Rape isn't about sex. It's about control and power.


----------



## Created2Write

that_girl said:


> Rape isn't about sex. It's about control and power.


I totally agree.


----------



## committed4ever

It really is no point to arguing what it should be called. It's called "rape fantasy" and if you want it changed, you probably need to campaign on some other platform besides TAM to get it done.


----------



## dallasapple

[QUOTESo now a rape fantasy is the same as saying they actually want to be raped?][/QUOTE]

Rape is rape .Framing it in a good way is wrong.Rape is evil.


----------



## dallasapple

Who would fantasize about an evil violent crime that really happens to people that destroys lives and say they "desire it"? The idea turns them on? I don't know but its not a good thing IMHO to "wish for" when so many are devestated and struggle to recover from and some never do.Its heartbreaking to hear it to be "wished for".Some want apparrently a horrendous violent terrifying act committed on them while those the victim of it wish they could escape it.I guess to fantasize you live through something like that i just dont get.

But to each his own.


----------



## dallasapple

committed4ever said:


> It really is no point to arguing what it should be called. It's called "rape fantasy" and if you want it changed, you probably need to campaign on some other platform besides TAM to get it done.


Hmm ..well I guesse I can campainge against it wherever its being promoted and raved about.Maybe the best place is where anyone that uses the word "rape" like its a good thing is exactly where I should speak up?

Anyone that would take the word "rape" anywhere and make it sound good and promote it I am welcome to say that's wrong.

I dont care if you say you are talkign about "fantasy rape" that is even MORE insulting.There is nothing "fantasy" or good about the horror of rape.To glorify that word in any way is shameful.Whats next "fantasy child molestation"?I mean really it makes that much sense to say that.You are taking a word that by definition means something horrendous and dehuminizing that people suffer over and saying for you its only a "fantasy" and you want it.

And I have the right to my opinion just as those who "like to be raped"(pretend) to.

Its as offensive as saying I fantasize and it turns me on to be a hollocust victim.Its absurd to make it a good thing .Fantasy or not.Of course that is only my opinion.

Peace.


----------



## dallasapple

> You don't get what FANTASY is. No one is calling it "rape", they're calling it "fantasy". Pretend. Not real. Not accurate. Pretend. Fake.


RAPE is rape.Its evil and bad period...So you cant say "good rape" or "rape fantasy " wanted "rape " nice pretend rape" .

Or do and I will object for myself and all rape vicitms young and old.Find another word to describe what you "want" but rape is reserved for VICTIMS of it.

I wish since some of you "fantasize" about being raped I could take all the pain and suffering away from those who have been raped and give it to you so then you could have the "rape experience" since that is what you claim to enjoy and want.Because that is what rape is about .Pain and suffering.

The insult of calling it a fantasy to be enjoyed and a healthy turn on is beyond something a non rape victim could possibly understand.To promote that as healthy is beyond me.


----------



## Blonde

that_girl said:


> I will say, rough sex and "rape fantasy" are different.
> 
> I have come to a realization that the rape fantasy itself can be a manifestation of past abuse.
> 
> I say this because I used to have a rape fantasy. I loved rough sex and 'rape sex'. Ugh...makes me sick to write that BECAUSE I had therapy and this fantasy that I enjoyed playing out was created by my childhood sexual abuse...It wasn't that I LIKED being raped...it's hard to explain. It's almost like I was replaying my abuse BUT being able to fight back. Weird in its own.
> 
> I had this realization when talking to someone I love dearly. She, too, had/has a rape fantasy and she says it's probably because of her past sexual abuse....


+1

Never did the role playing but had the fantasy between my ears which was cured by therapy.

When a child is sexually abused there's a LOT of ambivalence which develops. She knows it's wrong but she had pleasure so she wants to be punished and degraded because of the shame.

OP, I'd say to treat her with dignity and respect rather than re-enacting abuse. 

Symptoms of abuse survivors

Swedish man to stand trial for 'Fifty Shades of Grey' sado-masochistic sex game death of his girlfriend | Mail Online


----------



## Created2Write

dallasapple said:


> Who would fantasize about an evil violent crime that really happens to people that destroys lives and say they "desire it"? The idea turns them on? I don't know but its not a good thing IMHO to "wish for" when so many are devestated and struggle to recover from and some never do.Its heartbreaking to hear it to be "wished for".Some want apparrently a horrendous violent terrifying act committed on them while those the victim of it wish they could escape it.I guess to fantasize you live through something like that i just dont get.
> 
> But to each his own.


I'm not one of them, so I can't answer that question. But the fact that this very same fantasy is in every single romance novel that exists, says to me that it's very popular. 

And also, it's important to recognize that no one is desiring actual rape. The fantasy is very different than the actual act itself. It's pretend, not real, and there are safe words in play in case one of them gets too uncomfortable. Frankly, I don't think I could be into something like that. Bondism, maybe. Rough sex, definitely. Seduction, bring it on. I don't find any desire for the rape fantasy. 

But I also don't judge and criticize those who do as if I know them to be disgusting heartless people.


----------



## Created2Write

You're welcome to object all you want dallas. It won't change a single thing. 

I am really sorry that you and friends and relatives have been victims of rape. That's horrible. I have a very close friend who has had the same experience, and the trauma it inflicts isn't easily overcome. 

But, I don't judge those who have more...kinky fantasies than I. I have my personal boundaries, and I might wonder why some things turn people on, but this particular fantasy is very, very common. Literature involving these scenarios is incredibly popular, and while I certainly don't understand the appeal, as long as the couple agrees to their boundaries and neither one is pressured into doing more than they're comfortable with, I choose not to judge.


----------



## dallasapple

> And also, it's important to recognize that no one is desiring actual rape. T


Then don't call it "rape fantasy" because rape is "actual".And its a horrendous damaging life altering crime against another person.And if you want to call it "rape fantasy" do not judge those who have actually been raped for saying that's a disgusting fantasy.Because you don't even really want what you say you fantasize about in fact if you have a heart wouldn't wish it on your worst enemy.


----------



## dallasapple

> You're welcome to object all you want dallas. It won't change a single thing.


What do you mean it won't change a single thing? I will point out the sickness for calling something evil good period.Change it not change it I will call it out.Rape is evil.And "pretending" is not what happens to a rape victim period in fact its not even close.And its sick IMHO that people would want to run around pretending they were victims of one of the most horrendous crimes 2nd to murder and say they like it.For the real victims.I don't care if I "change it' .Just need to remind people what they are actually saying they "desire" to "pretend " happens to them is evil (rape is evil) and to pretend you are a rapist for men? I think many men would not be happy with that either.

RAPE is a horrible thing.Evil.To fake its happening and "like it" I believe is an utter slap in the face to real victims of it.It promotes real rape puts a positive spin on it.

Like I said..you have no idea what you are even "pretending".


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## dallasapple

> I have my personal boundaries, and I might wonder why some things turn people on, but this particular fantasy is very, very common. Literature involving these scenarios is incredibly popular, and while I certainly don't understand the appeal, as long as the couple agrees to their boundaries and neither one is pressured into doing more than they're comfortable with, I choose not to judge.


You need to read more.This "fantasy" is common among child sexual abuse survivors.Its not coming from out of the blue or anywhere from healthy sexuality.

And its very very common because 1 in 4 women (just in America) is sexually abused.


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## creative

Being judgemental is not part of who I am but thats pretty f***ed up! When you look at it, having someone to pretend to be the 'victim of rape' during sex is way out of my comfort zone, it doesn't seem to align with anything positive. If any one ask me to perform sexual acts in a rape scene, even though I'm alway adventurous, I think they might need to someone professionally. I don't get the violence thing & I don't want to. It's like the people who's into B & D, I'll cry like a little girl in a corner of a room if someone whips me with some leathery objects, or being treated like a baby or being told that they've been 'bad', WTF?!but hey, the non-judgemental side has kicked in so if your into that, & it brings you the deepest happiness then that's good, just don't involve me!


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## Thundarr

Makes sense that the phase will trigger a lot of people but rape and rape fantasy differing definitions. Maybe rape shouldn't be in the phrase at all because they're so opposite in regard to consent but none of us coined the phrase and it is about pretending to not give consent. Matter of fact I suspect many who role play submissive inocent woman taken by a deviant masculine man don't utter the words rape. They just come up with the storyline.

I guess it's called rape fantasy because calling it "take me because I want you to but I'll pretend to resist because I'm so inocent and you're so persistent" fanasty is a little wordy.


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## Starstarfish

Dallas, first, I'm really sorry about what you and your friends/family went through. 

"Rape fantasy" perhaps isn't the appropriate term, I've no idea what might be "domination fantasy" or "rough sex dream" perhaps, I've no idea. Yes, it's the casual use of a word that perhaps shouldn't be used casually, but - that seems to be kind of common these days using the phrase "raped" to describe any undesirable situation rather than it's true, classical meaning. 

But - this thread isn't the beginning and end of that, so yes, indeed:



> Just need to remind people what they are actually saying they "desire" to "pretend " happens to them is evil


But one post is a reminder, repeated posts over multiple pages is ... something else. It's you staying involved in an obviously triggering topic. 

As for trying to fight other people about their sexual fantasies, regardless of what they are called, is likely even more tenuous. Especially if the acts in question are indeed between two consenting adults. There are plenty of things that other people do that I might not be into, but hey whatever. I personally look a lot more down on folks who try and pressure their spouse into threesomes or other "outsider" sex situations than people who bring up a fantasy to be explored between the two of them. 

Also, there's variations on this theme. "Rougher" or "more aggressive" doesn't mean clap me or choke me to all people. Just like "vanilla" sex doesn't me only man on top missionary to everyone either.


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## dallasapple

> But one post is a reminder, repeated posts over multiple pages is ... something else.


The majority of my posts are responding to others addressing me including this one.Not to mention some who have addressed me have also have multiple posts not limited to but including multiple post addressing me. one of the options on the poll was its not normal (or did it say healthy ?either way) get some therapy.And another its perfectly normal (or whatever wording) as two of the options.Are you saying only those who object to this can only post once ?Because there are pages with posters posting multiple times who think its fine and great.Im also not the only one who has posted more than once that take issue with it.Why are you singling me out?The way this thread is set up its obvious the topic is up for debate.I have been quoted and debated back.Please do not tell me I need not respond.Or expand your advice to everyone here that has multiple post arguing there opinion .

I appreciate your concern but please do not worry about me.Also I know plenty of women who have never been sexually assaulted that object to this "rape fantasy" popularity so its not about being triggered or only upsetting to victims of that word.


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## dallasapple

SandC,Created2write,Committed4ever,AmonPink,Thundar,Tony55 and more all have multiple posts some of them far more than I have posted.I have no problem with that .Now can we get back on topic ?


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## DvlsAdvc8

dallasapple said:


> RAPE is rape.Its evil and bad period...So you cant say "good rape" or "rape fantasy " wanted "rape " nice pretend rape" .
> 
> Or do and I will object for myself and all rape vicitms young and old.Find another word to describe what you "want" but rape is reserved for VICTIMS of it.
> 
> I wish since some of you "fantasize" about being raped I could take all the pain and suffering away from those who have been raped and give it to you so then you could have the "rape experience" since that is what you claim to enjoy and want.Because that is what rape is about .Pain and suffering.
> 
> The insult of calling it a fantasy to be enjoyed and a healthy turn on is beyond something a non rape victim could possibly understand.To promote that as healthy is beyond me.


If you're so sensitive to it why join this thread?

It is called a rape FANTASY not necessarily because one wants to be in pain or suffer, but because they want to resist being taken and be over powered. Aggressive wrestling-style, objectifying, possessive sex. The slapping and spitting is actually a level deeper that I'm not into, but yes, this too is exciting to about 5-10% of women according to Kinsey. Is it really much different than using whips and rope?

For many many women, physicality and "not taking no for an answer" is a major turn on - that he HAS to have her right now no matter what she says. The "no" is of course a fake no - hence the use of safewords.

Its all an illusion, since she actually does want to be taken in this way, and there simply isn't a word other than rape fantasy that more accurately captures it.

If you have actually been raped or have major issues with the word that cause the subject to be an emotional trigger for you, I'd suggest avoiding threads like this... its obviously not for you. Other people are just fine with it and fully understand what is meant by rape fantasy. Being *fantasy*, its obviously not the same as rape, which is by definition something you DONT want.

My ex wife had this fantasy, and let me assure you, she wasn't abused. It was a turn on to her that no matter how hard she tried to fight (save biting and kicking me in the nuts), I could hold her down and take her. There wasn't anything evil or bad about it. Call it whatever you want. But it comes complete with faux "no!! Stop!!! STOP!! please stop" screams and in my experience its agreed to earlier in the day. So I call it a rape fantasy, and I'm not stopping unless she starts yelling "snoopy!!"


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## DvlsAdvc8

dallasapple said:


> I know plenty of women who have never been sexually assaulted that object to this "rape fantasy" popularity so its not about being triggered or only upsetting to victims of that word.


Its NOT men who generally have these rape fantasies, it is women. And if that's what they want, its really none of your business to object to what other people want in their bedrooms anymore than it is your business to tell someone what to eat.


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## dallasapple

The word rape is a highly charged word period.And if I'm not bothered by my sensitivity why does anyone else care ?How about if you are so sensitive to my sensitivity don't read my post.Especially you take the time to quote me?So you can quote me and post a response to my comments then at same time as me why I joined the thread.ONE of the options put forth by the OP was its not a good thing.

[QUOTEno its not normal. you might need to go to marriage counseling][/QUOTE]

This is the aspect of it I'm discussing.right on the poll option #1.You are more than welcome to discuss/debate your aspect/opinion of it and what a turn on it was for your X wife (YOUR personal experience /bias)..But so am I.


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## dallasapple

> And if that's what they want, its really none of your business to object to what other people want in their bedrooms anymore than it is your business to tell someone what to eat.


I have not once told anyone "what to do in their bedroom".I am giving my opinion on the idea of "rape fantasy" period.This is an opinion thread about a specific sexual practice.I dont care if anyone personally wants to beat the crap out of each other go for it but If I'm asked In general what i think about that I am free to answer.Just as you are free to give yours.


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## Starstarfish

Real people are bullied every day to devastating results up to and including suicide. And yet, humiliation and name-calling can be part of some people's dom fantasies. "IE - lick my boots, maggot. You don't deserve to touch me, worthless scum, prove to me you deserve it. Grovel and Beg." I've heard of some folks who like to be called racial slurs during their dom sessions, even though they'd never accept that "in real life" in any other circumstance. 

People's sexuality can exist in a place separate from the rest of them. Where they can enjoy or want things they'd never want in the rest of their day to day lives.


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## Starstarfish

Let's use another example. 

Say someone's kink is dressing up like Hitler (come on you know that's a real possibility) and being put in his place by some hot blonde chick in a uniform, you know boots and riding crop and all that? 

Is that kind of weird? Yeah - its sort of weird. And who knows what might have led to that very specific fantasy. Too much Raiders of the Lost Ark as a kid? Watching Schindler's List too young? It was the fantasy you zoned to during history class? I mean who knows how some ideas get into people's heads. 

But - just because this is his particular kink, does that make him "evil"? Does he obviously want to -be- Hitler? Does he want to actually kill and torture people?* No. So unless this weird kink starts making its way outside the bedroom and into his day to life by joining a neo-Nazi group, spouting hate speech at work, or generally becoming an untenable d!ck and demanding his wife only him as Fuhrer even outside bedroom play, then its safely within the bounds of his sexual life, and he can let his freak flag fly. 

Having a fantasy doesn't make that guy automatically "pro Hitler" and more than having a more aggressive fantasy makes one "pro rape." There are boundaries between fantasy and reality. My issue wasn't people debating whether or not a "rape fantasy" is normal (how do you define what kinks are normal?) which was the point of the poll, it was the implication that even having the fantasy makes one evil in some way, and that obviously they are all for other people getting raped. 

* I ask myself this same question sometimes when people tell me their favorite movie is something like Saw or Hostel.


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## DvlsAdvc8

dallasapple said:


> The word rape is a highly charged word period.And if I'm not bothered by my sensitivity why does anyone else care ?How about if you are so sensitive to my sensitivity don't read my post.Especially you take the time to quote me?So you can quote me and post a response to my comments then at same time as me why I joined the thread.ONE of the options put forth by the OP was its not a good thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> no its not normal. you might need to go to marriage counseling]
> 
> 
> 
> This is the aspect of it I'm discussing.right on the poll option #1.You are more than welcome to discuss/debate your aspect/opinion of it and what a turn on it was for your X wife (YOUR personal experience /bias)..But so am I.
Click to expand...




dallasapple said:


> I have not once told anyone "what to do in their bedroom".I am giving my opinion on the idea of "rape fantasy" period.This is an opinion thread about a specific sexual practice.I dont care if anyone personally wants to beat the crap out of each other go for it but If I'm asked In general what i think about that I am free to answer.Just as you are free to give yours.


Any word is just a word. I got raped in a Battlefield 3 game last night. My Ravens raped the 49ers in the first half of the Superbowl. Alternatively, I could say I got my @ss kicked in BF3. Or that the Ravens kicked the 49ers @ss in the first half. Of course, that didn't actually happen either. People use figures of speech often. That particular word has more impact for you if you've actually been raped, but for everyone else, its just a word... and Rape Fantasy is the most accurate name.

I didn't say you told anyone what to do in their bedroom, I said "object to". You object to Rape Fantasy in general. Your posts go beyond saying you don't like it for yourself - or you'd have said your bit and been done with the thread. You're complaining about what other people want sexually. You don't have that fantasy. It ends right there. But no, you really want to convince others of the evil of the fantasy and how terrible the word is - so no, don't backtrack now and give us the "I'm just giving my opinion" line. You can think those fantasies are disgusting if you want to, other people don't think so, and its really pointless to debate a person's sexual preferences.

The question was, "is it normal?" Yes, it is usually normal. Common even. It does not mean someone needs therapy.

The topic wasn't "do you like rape fantasy or not and why".

Your mistake is in thinking there is a debate here when there is none. There is no debating that Rape Fantasy is not rape; is desired by many entirely normal, healthy women; and does not mean someone needs therapy.

The end.


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## dallasapple

Let me clarify .I did not say and I do not think anyone is "evil" for playing this "rape" game.But rape (real rape) is evil.So if someone likes play acting that is happening to them or fantasizes even in their head about it or you like playing you are the rapist I believe that is coming from an unhealthy place.And I am not the one that used the word "normal" first its the 1st option of the poll.And this is MY opinion its to no one personally.

I also completely disntinguish between wanting to be so desired that he just "cant help himself" and being "swept away " by his passion is not even a "rape fantasy".That is invited "letting it happen" strong passion and desire that you "succumb" to by someone who loves you and you love back.Rape has nothing to do with wanting strong passionate desire from someone you love directed at you .I have no issue with him taking on a "dominant" enthusiastic "pursuit" of you with her being in the position to submit to his desire .But that is not rape.(or shall we say faking rape)

Anymore than if I have that strong desire for my husband and I "pounce" on him and he "lets me" while he is more in the laid back letting me have my way with him role is rape.(or faking rape).


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## dallasapple

[QUOTEI got raped in a Battlefield 3 game last night.][/QUOTE]

I realize the word rape is used to refer to a non sexual event.Its not the same connotation as saying I enjoy /like my body being sexually assaulted.Not to mention you would wonder about a person who said "I loved getting raped last night in a Battlefield 3 game last night" .The assumption is that (or at least mine would be) you were aiming to not get raped not the goal in playing the game.You lost and you lost bad I'm sure you aren't happy about.Its like saying you got "creamed" .Im not thinking someone litterally turned you into cream or that you pretended that someone made you into cream either.

But in your example the word "raped" is not suppose to be a good thing .It means you lost.Someone responding might say "aww sorry better luck next time".


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## DvlsAdvc8

dallasapple said:


> I got raped in a Battlefield 3 game last night.]
> 
> 
> 
> I realize the word rape is used to refer to a non sexual event.Its not the same connotation as saying I enjoy /like my body being sexually assaulted.Not to mention you would wonder about a person who said "I loved getting raped last night in a Battlefield 3 game last night" .The assumption is that (or at least mine would be) you were aiming to not get raped not the goal in playing the game.You lost and you lost bad I'm sure you aren't happy about.Its like saying you got "creamed" .Im not thinking someone litterally turned you into cream or that you pretended that someone made you into cream either.
> 
> But in your example the word "raped" is not suppose to be a good thing .It means you lost.Someone responding might say "aww sorry better luck next time".
Click to expand...

Aha! But that doesn't mean I don't like playing the game. If I dominated the game every time I played, it wouldn't be any fun anymore. Its the losing that KEEPS me playing. Its the variety and challenge in the game. Some days I win, some days I lose... there's a negative connotation to losing a game, but its still a game and fun. I didn't intend for a one for one analogy, but merely to show that the word's charge can be so weak its used in the context of losing a meaningless video game or football game.

There is an element of this surrender/defeat in female sexuality - not being in control or winning all the time. You have the keys to the vagina. Generally speaking for men, what you say goes (dramatic oversimplification... I am not going to be in a one sided sexual relationship; but hopefully you get the point) - with many (most?) men this gives you a sexual power over him, that honestly many women don't want to have (him sucking up to her for sex). Many women like dropping this responsibility for awhile and hubby just coming and taking it. She doesn't have to be receptive to his advances. He just takes her. Rape fantasy is an extension of this base desire taken to a greater extreme.

There's a carnal, primitive element to it as well from what I'm told.

Many women on this forum hate this notion out of their hyper concern for equality, but a LOT of women out there LIKE the submissive role and desire to be dominated by a man; many so far as to enjoy being "forced" into submission (faux force)... and to make him prove his dominance. There are many this doesn't work for, but there are a LOT of women who get seriously turned on by this stuff. Rape fantasy is merely an extension of this. The fantasy is actually their resistance.


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## dallasapple

> Say someone's kink is dressing up like Hitler (come on you know that's a real possibility) and being put in his place by some hot blonde chick in a uniform, you know boots and riding crop and all that?


I would like to touch on this.And oh yeah I believe that might be someones kink I believe anything. First no I dont think he is "evil" but further I really don't think its a good analogy.A better analogy would be if he played like he was Hitler torturing then murdering a woman playing a jew in a concentration camp but further the woman was a real jewish person IRL.And the man playing Hilter was of German gentile descent.But better yet? Jews were still (currently) and lets get real close to what Im saying to the tune of 1 in 4 jews were today REALLY being tortured and murdered in concentration camps at the order of Hilter and no one could stop it and it had been going on since the dawn of time...And playing this game was highly sexually arousing to both of them.

I still wouldn't say THEY were evil.but acting out and getting turned on by something evil that causes mass human suffering and loss of innocent lives and for no other reason than their race.(how they were born).I would say I don't think something is right about that.

And they ran around promoting this game and saying how it was harmless because its just a "fantasy".And because X amount of jewish women and german men have this fantasy must mean its healthy because its pretty common.And any survivors of Hitlers murderous rampage should just stay away from discussing this popular fetish/sexual fantasy if they are going to be so sensitive to it on top of that.And the fantasy was called "kill the jews fantasy"

That's a better analogy.


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## dallasapple

> Aha! But that doesn't mean I don't like playing the game.


Of course but losing a game cant be compared to a horrific crime.So the word doesn't carry the same meaning.but at least its referring to a "not good" thing.Nobody WANTS to lose .


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## DvlsAdvc8

dallasapple said:


> Of course but losing a game cant be compared to a horrific crime.So the word doesn't carry the same meaning.but at least its referring to a "not good" thing.Nobody WANTS to lose .


The analogy is being stretched beyond my intended purpose, but yes, if I always win the game, I don't want to play the game anymore... so in a manner of speaking, I want to lose on occassion. Here, the term is describing that I had no power whatsoever to stop the other team. The game is still fun. Of course, in reality I did have power. I could have stopped playing.

The world doesn't carry a "not good" meaning in "rape fantasy" either. Rape fantasy shouldn't be compared to the crime of rape either... afterall, the resistance itself IS the fantasy. Truthfully, there is no resistance. She wants this domination.

It is not a violation against one's will in either case, particularly the rape fantasy, where the actual will IS to be overpowered and submissive. At any time I can stop playing the game. At any time, she can say "snoopy" and its all over. The motivation is different, and that's where the analogy ends.

I'm just showing you that the word is not synonymous with the crime, and since you seemingly accept that, you should have no problem with the term rape fantasy.

I've been with women who enjoyed "slave" roleplay as well, both as master and slave, and slavery is wrong. Slave play, or rape play, being willful is the total opposite of the crime of rape. So other than the word, which you've now seemingly accepted, I don't know what your problem is with it. Rather than soapboxing, you can just leave it at "not for me" rather than judging others sexual preferences as wrong simply because they are plays upon lack of control.


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## dallasapple

> The world doesn't carry a "not good" meaning in "rape fantasy" either.


Yes it does .Because the meaning of that word in that scenerio is referring to a violent sexual crime fake or not fake not losing a some game.

The fact the word can be used for lesser negative things is a moot point for me.

There is also a "rape seed" ..So what?I don't care.Has nothing to do with the definition I'm referring to.


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## DvlsAdvc8

dallasapple said:


> Yes it does .Because the meaning of that word in that scenerio is referring to a violent sexual crime fake or not fake not losing a some game.
> 
> The fact the word can be used for lesser negative things is a moot point for me.
> 
> There is also a "rape seed" ..So what?I don't care.Has nothing to do with the definition I'm referring to.


Wrong. The crime of rape is about the violation of personal choice: willingness to have sex. A rape fantasy involves willing participation. The resistance is what is fake.

It is exactly the same as dom/sub - master/slave roleplay... or being tied up for that matter. Are we tying the other person up because we want to keep them against their will?? No. Its sexual roleplay with a willing participant.

That both are willing means there can be nothing wrong about it.


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## committed4ever

Could Y'all hold on a minute while I get some more popcorn?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dallasapple

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Wrong. The crime of rape is about the violation of personal choice: willingness to have sex. A rape fantasy involves willing participation. The resistance is what is fake.
> 
> It is exactly the same as dom/sub - master/slave roleplay... or being tied up for that matter. Are we tying the other person up because we want to keep them against their will?? No. Its sexual roleplay with a willing participant.
> 
> That both are willing means there can be nothing wrong about it.


I understand its NOT "really" rape.I'm not an idiot.I still say its taking something evil that DOES really happen pretending its happening and enjoying it ..making it be a "good thing" is not right I think its dangerous to ever make something that should never happen IRL in the first place be accepted at all even pretend as "healthy" .Period.I think there is something wrong with it.You don't so its time to agree to disagree.Especially before I get accused again of having too many posts despite the fact I'm being quoted and debated with right back.By multiple posters.


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## Caribbean Man

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> I've been with women who enjoyed "slave" roleplay as well, both as master and slave, and slavery is wrong. Slave play, or rape play, being willful is the total opposite of the crime of rape.


:iagree:
I've also been with women wholike that stuff in the past.
My wife likes some rough stuff sometimes in bed, and I'm much bigger than her.

I've always wondered about the psychology behind the desire of a woman to be f-ed that way though.
What causes some women to love domination and some to be so opposed to it?
I remember being with a girl who liked it _that way_ from me.
But she was a very dominant person with the other men she had been with.:scratchhead:


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## dallasapple

committed4ever said:


> Could Y'all hold on a minute while I get some more popcorn?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well actually I think I'm going to get my own popcorn and sit back and watch while I get quoted over and over again by multiple posters arguing /debating my opinion while I'm also being told I should not even post but one post and leave.Oh and that Im "too sensitive' when my opinion on this is in general and people are getting all upset thinking I might take away their rape fantasy or something.Or Im going to go in their bedroom and try and have them arrested for faking being a rapist .Geez.And I'm the sensitive one?


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## Acorn

Let it go, Dallas. Be free.


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## dallasapple

Caribbean Man said:


> :iagree:
> I've also been with women wholike that stuff in the past.
> My wife likes some rough stuff sometimes in bed, and I'm much bigger than her.
> 
> I've always wondered about the psychology behind the desire of a woman to be f-ed that way though.
> What causes some women to love domination and some to be so opposed to it?
> I remember being with a girl who liked it _that way_ from me.
> But she was a very dominant person with the other men she had been with.


There was one explanation that might fit her .An otherwise dominant and even controlling woman outside of bed gets tired of always being in control and will use sex to finally be in a submissive role sounds like basically to escape from herself for while.


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## DvlsAdvc8

dallasapple said:


> I still say its taking something evil that DOES really happen pretending its happening and enjoying it ..making it be a "good thing" is not right I think its dangerous to ever make something that should never happen IRL in the first place be accepted at all even pretend as "healthy" .Period.


On what grounds are the parameters in which people have consentual sex not right or dangerous? Are you against all forms of BDSM? Is tying someone up a bad thing because it would be outside of a fantasy context? Whips? Spanking?

The idea that enjoying rape fantasy means you encourage, accept or pretend that real rape is healthy is just asinine. Period.


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## GTdad

dallasapple said:


> There was one explanation that might fit her .An otherwise dominant and even controlling woman outside of bed gets tired of always being in control and will use sex to finally be in a submissive role sounds like basically to escape from herself for while.


I've heard the same reasoning applied to high-achieving men of a certain flavor. The sort that provide a livelihood to Leather Mistresses everywhere.

My wife likes to be man-handled on occassion. I don't think that's quite the same thing as a rape fantasy, but I'm also not too sure it's that far removed, either.


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## dallasapple

> My wife likes to be man-handled on occassion. I don't think that's quite the same thing as a rape fantasy, but I'm also not too sure it's that far removed, either.


Well anytime I have sex with my husband I'm being handled by a man. Having said that ? I think its far different for it to be a little "rough" than pretending you are a rapist and she is being forced to have sex against her will i.e raped..Usually a rape victim wont be saying things like "harder harder harder" IYKWIM.

For me it is far removed.Liking sex (for me anyway) when its a little more on the aggressive side is not the same as liking to pretend you are being forced against your will .


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## Tony55

I understand DallasApples's position, which is basically that you can't possibly create a fictitious version of rape, because the mere fictitious-ness of it disqualifies it from being rape. I also understand the opposing view, which is essentially that humans do tend to entertain themselves sometimes by flying close to the flame, but not too close.

One is real, the other is fantasy (although Dallas will say that because it's fantasy it can't be rape).

Dallas is sensitive to rape scenarios and feels like they are dangerous and insensitive, and the opposing view says it's harmless provided both sides consent.

I'm not taking a side on this particular argument because I know I enjoy movies and gaming scenarios that I wouldn't care to experience first hand, in real life.

So, with that said, for the defenders of anything goes in sex, as long as it's consensual, where is your line? Mine was at spitting and choking (I wouldn't do either to someone I hate, much less someone I loved), but where is the line? Where should the OP draw the line? What would the OP have to ask about before you say, whoa, that's going too far.

T


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## dallasapple

> I've heard the same reasoning applied to high-achieving men of a certain flavor. The sort that provide a livelihood to Leather Mistresses everywhere.


I have no doubt.(actually I mean I know LOL).I still think that comes from some sort of I guess I would say "imbalance" in his out of bed life.Just like with the controlling dominating woman.Its almost like (just my take) trying to "correct" emotionally what goes on in your life non sexually that is out of whack with a sexual fetish.

Just like "real rape" and "real serial killings" many all rooted back to something 'non sexual" or some real "wrong" on them sexually usually that drives them to "want that" (need that emotionally?) to get a rise.

And it can even be "teachings" that I mentioned before.Even if you look at in reverse .Aversions.Lets look at a very common practice of oral sex.Even eluded to (most agree it is) in the Bible Song of Solomon? But if you grow up just being told that your genitals are "dirty" (like literally "germs") so don't touch that.What is the liklihood as an adult you will want to put a genital in your mouth ?Or let someone put yours in theirs?

I have a weird one LOL!! My sisters high school sweet heart.He was disgusted by feet.Really.He didn't want to see a foot.He didn't want a foot touch him.God only knows what happened to him or what he was told.I highly doubt he was "born that way".I mean lots of people suck on each other toes.

But rape is always wrong.And I'm glad.And I don't think pretending its a "good thing' (by faking it) comes from a healthy place.


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## Starstarfish

Wow, Dallas, he had like the opposite of a foot fetish, he had a foot phobia. Yeah - that must have been weird if/when he had sex, I mean, do you diagram ahead of time not to ever have her feet touch you? Does she have to wear socks all the time? Lights off under the sheets only?

Well - only the OP can ultimately decide where he should draw the line, Tony. 

But - what's just way too over the line for me?

Bloodplay. Anything that involving poking, slicing, or otherwise perforating the skin for the purpose of drawing blood and then using it sexually. That's beyond the pale to me. And no, I don't really want to get slapped or choked either.


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## DvlsAdvc8

Tony55 said:


> I understand DallasApples's position, which is basically that you can't possibly create a fictitious version of rape, because the mere fictitious-ness of it disqualifies it from being rape. I also understand the opposing view, which is essentially that humans do tend to entertain themselves sometimes by flying close to the flame, but not too close.
> 
> One is real, the other is fantasy (although Dallas will say that because it's fantasy it can't be rape).
> 
> Dallas is sensitive to rape scenarios and feels like they are dangerous and insensitive, and the opposing view says it's harmless provided both sides consent.
> 
> I'm not taking a side on this particular argument because I know I enjoy movies and gaming scenarios that I wouldn't care to experience first hand, in real life.
> 
> So, with that said, for the defenders of anything goes in sex, as long as it's consensual, where is your line? Mine was at spitting and choking (I wouldn't do either to someone I hate, much less someone I loved), but where is the line? Where should the OP draw the line? What would the OP have to ask about before you say, whoa, that's going too far.
> 
> T


A little choke I'm okay with. Spitting, not my taste. Was with one girl who wanted me to cut her. Yes, *CUT* her.

Uhhh... no.

She was in fact a cutter - had been raped as a child and had a LOT of issues as it would turn out. But that's the wildest thing I've ever been asked to do.


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## Thundarr

Tony55 said:


> I understand DallasApples's position, which is basically that you can't possibly create a fictitious version of rape, because the mere fictitious-ness of it disqualifies it from being rape. I also understand the opposing view, which is essentially that humans do tend to entertain themselves sometimes by flying close to the flame, but not too close.
> 
> One is real, the other is fantasy (although Dallas will say that because it's fantasy it can't be rape).
> 
> Dallas is sensitive to rape scenarios and feels like they are dangerous and insensitive, and the opposing view says it's harmless provided both sides consent.
> 
> I'm not taking a side on this particular argument because I know I enjoy movies and gaming scenarios that I wouldn't care to experience first hand, in real life.
> 
> So, with that said, for the defenders of anything goes in sex, as long as it's consensual, where is your line? Mine was at spitting and choking (I wouldn't do either to someone I hate, much less someone I loved), but where is the line? Where should the OP draw the line? What would the OP have to ask about before you say, whoa, that's going too far.
> 
> T


:iagree: 
I agree with every word in this including where my lines are drawn. I don't think I could spit on or choke my partner or even a casual partner if I was single. Well...... I wouldn't like it


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## Created2Write

dallasapple said:


> You need to read more.This "fantasy" is common among child sexual abuse survivors.Its not coming from out of the blue or anywhere from healthy sexuality.
> 
> And its very very common because 1 in 4 women (just in America) is sexually abused.


I read enough, thank you.  

Have you even read romance novels? Have you seen how popular erotica is? _50 Shades of Grey_? These books involve certain aspects of rape scenarios without crossing the line to complete and total rape. These books are some of the most popular, which is why so many writers choose to write that genre. That is what I meant.


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## Created2Write

Tony55 said:


> Well OP, lets just make sure we get her properly turned on before pseudo-raping her, get a good grip on the front of her throat with one hand, and while squeezing her airway shut, slap some sense into the b***h, make it's good and hard, go ahead, slap her again, and if she pulls away tighten your grip on her throat. When she starts begging you to stop, grab the b***h's hair and jerk her head back and spit in her face, tell her she's a sorry c*nt, slap her again and tell her the fun is just starting. Strip her down, wrap your belt around her neck and pull hard while you take her from behind (don't worry about lube). Grab a fistful of hair and lean in and spit in her eyes and tell her you love her disgusting, worthless ass. When your done, use your feet to push her off the bed; tell the sl*t to sleep on the floor.
> If she whines about it just tell her to shut the f*ck up and spit on her again.
> 
> T
> 
> _Special note: If you have daughters, let them go live with a relative... indefinitely._


Right...because that's totally what people have been advocating. 



Guess you missed the many posts where people have suggested that the OP voice his concerns about trying something he's uncomfortable with...or the posts where people have said that _if_ he decides to try the things his wife is asking of him, that he do so cautiously and safely, and that he make sure they have a safe word to use if he or she gets too uncomfortable.


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## Created2Write

Currently, I couldn't bring myself to spit on, slap or choke my husband, nor would I ask him to do those things to me either.


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## DvlsAdvc8

Tony55 said:


> Well OP, lets just make sure we get her properly turned on before pseudo-raping her, get a good grip on the front of her throat with one hand, and while squeezing her airway shut, slap some sense into the b***h, make it's good and hard, go ahead, slap her again, and if she pulls away tighten your grip on her throat. When she starts begging you to stop, grab the b***h's hair and jerk her head back and spit in her face, tell her she's a sorry c*nt, slap her again and tell her the fun is just starting. Strip her down, wrap your belt around her neck and pull hard while you take her from behind (don't worry about lube). Grab a fistful of hair and lean in and spit in her eyes and tell her you love her disgusting, worthless ass. When your done, use your feet to push her off the bed; tell the sl*t to sleep on the floor.
> If she whines about it just tell her to shut the f*ck up and spit on her again.


Yeah, but what do we do AFTER the first date?


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## Curse of Millhaven

The people I want to respond to are banned and I don't know how banishments work or if they will return, but dallasapple I completely understand the sentiment in your posts and the indignation you expressed over the seemingly "casual" use of the word rape. 

I felt ambivalent about using the word "rape" in my first post given the context of the OP, which is why I used it with quotation marks. I also touched on the issue you brought up by mentioning that even the BDSM community wishes to differentiate between consensual "forced" sex and the actual heinous crime of rape, by calling the roleplaying act "ravishment" instead of "rape fantasy". If "hardcore" communities are striving for sensitivity, it should be feasible for all of us to approach these delicate issues with the respect and consideration they deserve. But truthfully, I can see both sides of this argument. I mean "murder mystery" reenactments are harmless fun even though they depict horrible crimes and graphic horror movies are very popular and give people a thrill even though the things portrayed in them are terrible. Many of us are drawn to the darker side of our humanity, which does not necessarily mean we condone or support "man's inhumanity to man". 

Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that I appreciated your input and perspective on this topic. I don't believe anyone here meant any disrespect to rape victims by using the term "rape fantasy" and the OP and posters here didn't coin the phrase. It's simply what this particular fantasy is referred to in popular psychology and maybe you're right...maybe it shouldn't be.


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## Tony55

Curse of Millhaven said:


> The people I want to respond to are banned and I don't know how banishments work or if they will return...


I believe TAM has helped me make my point, the deviant sexual behavior the OP asked about - spitting, choking, slapping – is so offensive, that when putting such a scenario into words (as I did in one of my earlier posts) plays out so violently that the mere writing of it causes a forum such as TAM to suspend the writer for 5 days, think about that, a forum, which is fairly liberal in its tolerance of debate, drew the line at a post which puts into words a scenario in which spitting, choking and slapping is involved (and be assured, such a scenario would in fact include offensive language and abusive behavior). TAM refers to such a written scenario as “_offensive, disrespectfu_l” and “_abdicating violence/abuse_”, and I completely agree, it is violent and abusive _(although I think in my case the moderator failed to realize that I was making a point, not abdicating violent, abusive behavior… quite the contrary)_.

OP, violence as an acceptable form of sex play is something fed by the pornography industry for financial gain, with little or no concern for how or who it ultimately brainwashes into thinking a particular behavior is normal (teens come to mind as being pornographically indoctrinated into what is acceptable and not). 

Beating and degrading a loved one, consensual or not, is violent and abusive, and I believe in the long run, you do yourself more harm than good, and risk implanting an image of yourself in your spouse’s mind that will ultimately work against you.

Of course, I suppose this is just my opinion, but I think you can pretty much bank on it, no good will come from abusing a spouse (consensual or not). One would do well to step back and reflect on what might have gotten them to the point, in which sex play, became spitting, choking and slapping, or in other words, _offensive, disrespectful, violent and abusive_.

T


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## Curse of Millhaven

Tony55 said:


> I believe TAM has helped me make my point, the deviant sexual behavior the OP asked about - spitting, choking, slapping – is so offensive, that when putting such a scenario into words (as I did in one of my earlier posts) plays out so violently that the mere writing of it causes a forum such as TAM to suspend the writer for 5 days, think about that, a forum, which is fairly liberal in its tolerance of debate, drew the line at a post which puts into words a scenario in which spitting, choking and slapping is involved (and be assured, such a scenario would in fact include offensive language and abusive behavior). TAM refers to such a written scenario as “_offensive, disrespectfu_l” and “_abdicating violence/abuse_”, and I completely agree, it is violent and abusive _(although I think in my case the moderator failed to realize that I was making a point, not abdicating violent, abusive behavior… quite the contrary)_.
> 
> OP, violence as an acceptable form of sex play is something fed by the pornography industry for financial gain, with little or no concern for how or who it ultimately brainwashes into thinking a particular behavior is normal (teens come to mind as being pornographically indoctrinated into what is acceptable and not).
> 
> Beating and degrading a loved one, consensual or not, is violent and abusive, and I believe in the long run, you do yourself more harm than good, and risk implanting an image of yourself in your spouse’s mind that will ultimately work against you.
> 
> Of course, I suppose this is just my opinion, but I think you can pretty much bank on it, no good will come from abusing a spouse (consensual or not). One would do well to step back and reflect on what might have gotten them to the point, in which sex play, became spitting, choking and slapping, or in other words, _offensive, disrespectful, violent and abusive_.
> 
> T


Good to see you back. I understood what you were getting at in that post; I didn’t think you were advocating violence/abuse. I was going to jokingly tell you that you might have a future as the next E.L. James...muy caliente! 

I don’t know about this place being fairly liberal though; it doesn’t really strike me as being particularly laissez faire. And it seems they don’t allow graphic, potentially incendiary material go without censure, so I don’t really know how much it corroborated your assertion or not.

Again, personally for me I agree with you...yes, I would consider choking, spitting, and/or slapping abuse. I cannot imagine a scenario in which I would enjoy any of this nor could I ever bring myself to do it to someone else. My husband often tests the outer limits of my patience and that tree trunk he calls a neck could on occasion use a good wringing, but damn my weak hands and gentle heart! I could never willfully hurt him in any way, under any circumstances. It’s just not in me. I’m an ethical vegan, FFS! I can’t even bring myself to kill spiders in the house or watch earth worms struggle on the pavement after it rains…I rescue them. So while I personally cannot fathom enjoying some of the activities the OP’s wife requested, I’m still not going to say she is perverted and sick for wanting her husband to do these things to her within the safety of their marriage and I won’t judge the OP if he complied as much as his boundaries would allow him. 

Anyway, there are far more disturbing fringe things out there like adult babies, furries, and coprophilia…I mean seriously…WTF? Humans are pretty twisted creatures and can fetishize/sexualize just about anything. Truthfully, a lot of the fringe stuff makes me a little queasy, but I’m not a bastion of perfect mental health myself so who the hell am I to judge? Besides most of my knowledge of so-called “deviant” sexuality comes from the Discovery Channel, TLC, documentaries, and John Waters…so my take on this is limited and myopic to say the least.

And as far as the OP…seems he and his wife have already been enjoying their “rough play” and he is seeking advice on how to ease on down the Hershey Highway. So I think we can safely say that kinky Elvis has left this thread and we can save our admonishments/opinions for the next would be “Christian Grey”.


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## Tony55

Curse of Millhaven said:


> Good to see you back.


Thank you ;-)

By the way, I see Killjoy is still around, it would be interesting to hear from him. 

T


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## Hortensia

The word "rape" is just a word. It's not about the word, it's about the feeling associated with it. No one wants rape. It associates with feelings of pain, humiliation, powerlessness. It's devastating for the victims who don't seek for it and get to experience it. And here I agree with Dallasapple- you don't know what you are pretending, and fantasizing.

BUT. As I said it's all about the feeling. And believe it or not, some women get off off exactly these feelings: submission, humiliation, powerlessness. It's on the very close verge to BDSM. The pleasure of being dominated, spanked, overpowered, etc. Is it healthy? No. It is rooted in a subconscious belief of unworthiness, of not deserving to be treated good, or that their partner is so much superior to them, etc. The root of this sexual preference is never something healthy. But this is how these people experience sexual satisfaction - by getting off these feelings. And climaxing feels good, right? 
I'd suggest IC to anyone who is into being spit on,choked, slapped, whipped. Fantasy or not. Wanting to experience degrading stuff is sign of extremely low self esteem and self unworthiness. But I can't judge anyone who wants to try BDSM and reach orgasm this way.

Now, about the rape itself. Again, it's about the feeling. Not all victims of a rape experience terror and trauma (most do). But there are some who can actually enjoy being grabbed by a stranger in a dark corner (especially if he's hot) and have his way with them hard and rough against a wall. They would never openly admit it though, for fear of being labeled as skanks.
No,I'm not advocating rape by any means. But I heard of such women. There are even jokes about victims of rape looking for the raper, because they want more..lol.

Rough sex - without the degrading such as choking, whipping, spitting - just rough sex itself is a different matter. Being lifted by two strong arms and pushed against the wall, clothes ripped off, who doesn't like that? I love when my hubby "takes what is rightfully his and doesn't need to ask". It's not a rape fantasy- it's the pleasure of surrendering to a strong, handsome man. It's trust and power and feeling safe in the same time. We joke sometimes "I'm wearing no undies"- with a provocative display of legs. Him, teasingly : "Ummm ! Can I violate you?" Me, pretending to run :" Catch me if you can !" All while laughing and playing.

So, it's all about the feeling, people. It's never about the word itself.
If it feels good to try this fantasy, or engage in it, do so. If not, respectfully state your boundary and that this is not something you wish. You are not wrong for not liking it. But they are not wrong either if they do. People feel differently, if they don't feel the way you do, to each their own.


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