# Almost certain friend stole from me - not sure what to do



## moth-into-flame (Oct 28, 2016)

We have been friends since 2006 - when we were paired together as musicians to play an outdoor festival. We became very close friends. He's a bit of a troubled soul, and will intermittently disappear into depression or anxiety, and sometimes we won't talk for weeks. Smart guy, funny, but has some issues. One thing I've learned about him over the past few years is that he's a bit of a klepto. He talked about filling up a grocery cart and just walking out without paying - several times. One time getting busted. He has talked about insurance fraud (admitted to it), all sorts of scams and swiping stuff - he once walked out of a music store with the store's Macbook Pro under his shirt. So some fairly big theft. It's purely a compulsion - he's not poor or anything.

Recently he told me he lost his job - a high paying gig. He didn't say why. A mutual friend told me he was fired for some sort of prescription fraud involving work. I never got the details. I know he had foot surgery a little bit prior and was on bed rest and taking narcotic 'scrips...maybe he got addicted, maybe not. Not sure. Could be just more compulsive behavior.

Anyway, a couple months back, he and the mutual friend came over. We got to drinking beer and having a nice visit. I had a small piece of gear out on the kitchen island - when he saw it his eyes lit up and he raved about how much he liked it. After they left, it was gone. I looked _everywhere_ - I even went through the garbage in the kitchen and through the bins outside (recycle and garbage). I tore the house apart. I texted them both the next morning asking if they had seen it. The mutual friend said no he had not. However klepto buddy's response was "I don't think so, but I'll check my back back". Huh? Odd response - my spidey senses were already tingling and that was a red flag. I never heard back from him about his backpack search - but I asked the mutual friend - who told me second hand "yeah he said he checked and it's not there". Again - weird - why would he not tell me that himself? I told the mutual friend my suspicions - and he agreed it was possible and that our friend is "on a bad path" and "doing some bad ****" (this was the mutual friend that told me about his firing). Basically he said he wouldn't put it past him.

Past behavior, the shadiness and remark about the backpack (?? WTF), the circumstances and my gut tell me he swiped it.

I saw him only once since - a couple days later at a jam he hosted. He was overly nice and a bit ass kissy.He's sent me a couple texts here and there since, and I've been very, very cool (as in not saying much). He for sure knows something is up as it is very out of character for me to respond that way. He hasn't asked what's wrong or anything. He asked last week if I wanted to get together for a hang out - I didn't reply.

He knows I am a man who does not put up with betrayal. I will freeze you out of my life if you **** me over (ex my exww and my pos father). I have zero tolerance for someone who would steal from me like that. It's not the money or whatever - it's the betrayal and lack of respect. Why the hell would I want a friend like that?

This sucks - because I consider him one of my very best friends. But this is absolutely a deal breaker for me - but of course, I don't have video evidence or a confession. If I knew 100% he did it - that would be it - I'm done. Of course there's the minute possibility he didn't, but geez - I really don't think that's the case.

So - any advice? A lot of people have said they wouldn't be his friend just based on the thievery and fraud he's committed prior to this. I'm conflicted about that. What would you do? Confront? Is there any point? I highly doubt he'd admit it. Sooner or later I'll have to either get together with him, ask him, or just ignore him and let him fade away. I hate this. Truly at a loss.


----------



## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

moth-into-flame said:


> A lot of people have said they wouldn't be his friend just based on the thievery and fraud he's committed prior to this.


That would be my answer to. I don't need friends who steal things from stores. All you need is to be in the wrong place at the wrong time with this guy and you'll end up in trouble.


----------



## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

your friend doesn't live in eastern PA by chance.... does he?
Because he fits the description perfectly of one of my brothers. It's eerie.

With my POS narcissist klepto brother, the way to deal with it is to wait and watch. Ultimately, he ALWAYS ends up telling someone (either bragging or a sort of confessional) about what he took, or how he screwed someone over. If i know i'm going to see him, i lock up or put away anything i don't want him to take. Especially if it can fit in his pocket. He's like a raccoon with small shiny things. Especially music gear and apple productsIpods/iphones. He's a musician, and people leave things unattended at concerts/backstage/festivals. It makes him feel superior to take things, to own the nice things, to brag about it. And he gets some kind of rush from it, getting away with it.

If you are friends with my brother, or someone like him, I advise you to let him know you think he took it, and that you'd like it back. Calm and succinct, like you know, not like you are guessing. And then I'd freeze him out. Let him know that he gets to pick stealing from you once, or being your friend. If you're a pushover, or you let him rugsweep it, he would perceive it as weakness. And he'll do it again if he can.

I could be wrong, and my opinion is shaped by my experiences. If that's so, i apologize. But that's what I would do.


----------



## moth-into-flame (Oct 28, 2016)

sixty-eight said:


> your friend doesn't live in eastern PA by chance.... does he?
> Because he fits the description perfectly of one of my brothers. It's eerie.
> 
> With my POS narcissist klepto brother, the way to deal with it is to wait and watch. Ultimately, he ALWAYS ends up telling someone (either bragging or a sort of confessional) about what he took, or how he screwed someone over. If i know i'm going to see him, i lock up or put away anything i don't want him to take. Especially if it can fit in his pocket. He's like a raccoon with small shiny things. Especially music gear and apple productsIpods/iphones. He's a musician, and people leave things unattended at concerts/backstage/festivals. It makes him feel superior to take things, to own the nice things, to brag about it. And he gets some kind of rush from it, getting away with it.
> ...


No he doesn't - but yeah, it seems to be a thrill seeking compulsion, like your brother. Our mutual friend moved far away, so I won't hear it from him if he confesses or brags, and we don't hang out in the same circles otherwise. If I confront - man, don;t know how that will go. I'm sure he'd just play dumb, then where am I? Unfortunately I'm not "you get one chance" kinda guy with stuff like this. If he walked out of my house with my stuff - that's it. As my exww said to me after dday "you're not the kind of man who will ever get over this". I have zero tolerance for that behavior. 

My inclination is just to let him fade away - but that's not the right way I know. And I don't see him doing that anyway. He's been really on me for a hang out. ****!


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

My take on it is that you need to just distance yourself from him. You know he took it. You have no solid proof. He will deny it.

I knew someone years ago who stole like your friend does. He said that it was fun to steal thing right under people's noses. He told me when he showed me something valuable that he had stolen from a friend's house while he was visiting her. I also found out about him stealing from stores, like your friend. It was all a game to him.

People like this are broken. They are not safe to be around.


----------



## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

Yes.......confront with conviction and give him one chance to make it right........choose right now.....any anbiguity? Freeze him out. DEFINITELY let him know that you know he did it so he understands the consequences of his actions. You don't need people in your life that are unscrupulous........


----------



## tailrider3 (Oct 22, 2016)

Betrayedone said:


> Yes.......confront with conviction and give him one chance to make it right........choose right now.....any anbiguity? Freeze him out. DEFINITELY let him know that you know he did it so he understands the consequences of his actions. You don't need people in your life that are unscrupulous........


Agreed. Confront him and give him a chance...if not...maybe borrow something in the future you like and don't give it back...a perma loan...did that with a singer we had once...he owed some coin and never gave it back...so...kept some pedals of near equivalent value...


----------



## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

moth-into-flame said:


> No he doesn't - but yeah, it seems to be a thrill seeking compulsion, like your brother. Our mutual friend moved far away, so I won't hear it from him if he confesses or brags, and we don't hang out in the same circles otherwise. *If I confront - man, don;t know how that will go. I'm sure he'd just play dumb, then where am I?* Unfortunately I'm not "you get one chance" kinda guy with stuff like this. If he walked out of my house with my stuff - that's it. As my exww said to me after dday "you're not the kind of man who will ever get over this". I have zero tolerance for that behavior.
> 
> My inclination is just to let him fade away - but that's not the right way I know. And I don't see him doing that anyway. He's been really on me for a hang out. ****!


So he plays dumb, and you don't get your item back.

if you don't confront, you also don't get your item back.

you probably can't trust him enough to be more than acquaintances anyway anymore. If you hang out with him at your place, you'll have to worry about him lifting your stuff. If you hang out with him elsewhere you have to worry about being viewed as an accomplice. 

And be advised, my brother is a lock pick too. Can't just lock it up, have to lock it up and hide it. He also got caught once on a B&E, and managed to weasel out of the charges. Not that your friend is exactly like my POS brother. But it usually escalates. if it's a rush, then it has to be bigger or more expensive items to produce the same feeling.

IMO it's better to let him know you know, and won't be a pushover about it. Unless it's possible for you to hang out with him and chalk it up to the price of being friends.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Drop him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Drop him and spread the word.


----------



## moth-into-flame (Oct 28, 2016)

The only thing preventing me from pulling the trigger is the extremely minute possibility that he didn't take it. But past history, his reaction to seeing it, my gut, and the backpack remark...does anyone think it's possible he didn't? I mean man, all the signs are there...but like I said, I don't have actual video evidence or a confession. Imagine if he didn't - I would feel awful. But I think there's maybe like a 5% chance he didn't.

I mean really, would anyone here who is innocent reply "I don't think so but let me check my backpack", then not respond??


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

I imagine one should only have friends who have decent characters. What makes you think he will treat you any differently than all the others he has ****ed over, he has no moral boundaries at all. People like this are not the people you are friends with. His character is seriously flawed, expect to be disappointed.


----------



## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

He took it. I wouldn't ever want this guy in my home ever again, and knowing that he steals and doesn't care if he loses his job for fraud and theft, I wouldn't want to be with him in public either - he's going to cross a line sometime and end up in jail if not prison. And I wouldn't want to be arrested with him when it happens.


----------



## moth-into-flame (Oct 28, 2016)

Thanks folks. I still have not responded to him. I think I'll just leave it and probably let him fade away. Sucks - we had a lot of good times and he's such a massive musical talent - we made some amazing music together. And he's such a smart guy - but yeah, he's proved to be of low moral character. Kind of a painful loss tbh.

If he keeps pushing, I'll have to tell him why. I'm SURE he knows I know. 

Was he testing parameters with me - seeing how far he could push me? Or was I not even in the thought process, and it was purely the compulsion? Maybe both? I guess ultimately it doesn't matter the reason. All that matters is it's a deal breaker for me. I have tight boundaries, especially after being cheated on by my exww. Zero tolerance for deceit and any form of abuse. ZERO.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

I'd like to amend my earlier post...

_Confront_ and drop him.

If he denies, tell him that you're willing to forgive if he returns the item. 

If he still denies and fails to return the item, drop him.

If, however, he does return the item... well, drop him anyway.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

moth-into-flame said:


> Thanks folks. I still have not responded to him. I think I'll just leave it and probably let him fade away. Sucks - we had a lot of good times and he's such a massive musical talent - we made some amazing music together. And he's such a smart guy - but yeah, he's proved to be of low moral character. Kind of a painful loss tbh.
> 
> If he keeps pushing, I'll have to tell him why. I'm SURE he knows I know.
> 
> Was he testing parameters with me - seeing how far he could push me? Or was I not even in the thought process, and it was purely the compulsion? Maybe both? I guess ultimately it doesn't matter the reason. All that matters is it's a deal breaker for me. I have tight boundaries, especially after being cheated on by my exww. Zero tolerance for deceit and any form of abuse. ZERO.


sounds to me like your analysis is spot on. Probably both. pushing boundaries of what you would accept/gloss over to still be friends with him. Stealing from stores and strangers escalates to stealing from friends right under their noses. That probably adds to the rush, that of course you know it was him, and there's still no consequences.

I agree with other posters that you should get him out of your personal life. Not a good friend to have.

As far as your professional life, you might even be able to continue to play music with him, if you were careful. Lock on your guitar case (or whatever you play) don't meet at your house. Don't meet somewhere he could steal something and it would get blamed on you. You can still play good music with sucky people, just mitigate your risks. 
IMO, if we refuse to interact at all with people who are flawed, then we shrink our circle down to almost nothing. Everyone's got issues. Just be aware that he's not going to change unless he gets help, and act accordingly.


----------



## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

moth-into-flame said:


> The only thing preventing me from pulling the trigger is the extremely minute possibility that he didn't take it. But past history, his reaction to seeing it, my gut, and the backpack remark...does anyone think it's possible he didn't? I mean man, all the signs are there...but like I said, I don't have actual video evidence or a confession. Imagine if he didn't - I would feel awful. But I think there's maybe like a 5% chance he didn't.
> 
> I mean really, would anyone here who is innocent reply "I don't think so but let me check my backpack", then not respond??


"Kleptomania is a serious mental health disorder that can cause much emotional pain to you and your loved ones if not treated.

Kleptomania is a type of impulse control disorder — a disorder that's characterized by problems with emotional or behavioral self-control. If you have an impulse control disorder, you have difficulty resisting the temptation or drive to perform an act that's excessive or harmful to you or someone else.

Many people with kleptomania live lives of secret shame because they're afraid to seek mental health treatment. Although there's no cure for kleptomania, treatment with medication or psychotherapy may be able to help end the cycle of compulsive stealing." - Mayo Clinic


He has a compulsion and some underlying mental issues, and he's a long time close friend of yours. The best thing to do would to be a true friend to him, IMO. He clearly has issues and needs help, and that's what friends are for.

So tell him nicely, gently, that it's obvious he swiped your piece of gear, and that you will forgive him, provided he doesn't do it again - because friends don't steal from friends. Then ask him if he needs help in some way.

I've dealt with OCD for my entire adult life. I'm not a klepto, but I can understand the compulsion aspect of it, and it sucks. FWIW, none of my OCD traits involve anything illegal, immoral or dangerous. Mine are generally avoidance and superstition-related, and you wouldn't know it unless I told you. But sometimes they manifest in ways that you can't hide.

It's just a 'thing'. Friends are worth more than that. He needs help, and that's what friends are for.


----------



## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

moth-into-flame said:


> He knows I am a man who does not put up with betrayal.


Obviously you both know you will or this thread would be titled, "My exfriend stole from me - Told him to fvck off" You know he's guilty but you're inventing a million reasons in your head for why there might be a 0.01% chance he's not and clinging onto it for dear life.



moth-into-flame said:


> So - any advice? A lot of people have said they wouldn't be his friend just based on the thievery and fraud he's committed prior to this. I'm conflicted about that. What would you do? Confront? Is there any point? I highly doubt he'd admit it. Sooner or later I'll have to either get together with him, ask him, or just ignore him and let him fade away. I hate this. Truly at a loss.


Don't waste time on a confront. He's a thief. No one says, "Let me check my backpack, I forgot if I took something without permission" who isn't shamefully guilty. OBVIOUSLY if you consider that statement and a history of being a KLEPTOMANIAC, almost certain is a guarantee.

Go dark on him. NO CONTACT, delete and block all social media. Avoid him like the plague. If you ever run into him in a social situation and he confronts you tell him, "Hope the gear you STOLE was worth our friendship, go to hell" and walk away.


----------



## moth-into-flame (Oct 28, 2016)

BetrayedDad said:


> Obviously you both know you will or this thread would be titled, "My exfriend stole from me - Told him to fvck off" You know he's guilty but you're inventing a million reasons in your head for why there might be a 0.01% chance he's not and clinging onto it for dear life.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nah, I have gone dark. I won't bother confronting. I'm done. It's just painful to lose a friend - or rather have a friend betray you and force you to kill it off. Just the like exww - she left me no choice but to walk away. Good point on the shamefully guilty part - no doubt, I could sense his guilt when I saw him a couple days later (last time I saw him - this was August). What a tool. Oh well, his loss. I'll be just fine.


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*He seems to know all of the "in's and out's" of taking advantage of your awfully good nature!

Time to part ways with such company!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

moth-into-flame said:


> Nah, I have gone dark. I won't bother confronting. I'm done. It's just painful to lose a friend - or rather have a friend betray you and force you to kill it off. Just the like exww - she left me no choice but to walk away. Good point on the shamefully guilty part - no doubt, I could sense his guilt when I saw him a couple days later (last time I saw him - this was August). What a tool. Oh well, his loss. I'll be just fine.


 You could send him the instruction manual and warranty card, with a note saying "you might need this" That would be clear enough.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

People like him often come from either poor homes or homes that did not provide many material things to the children.

He may have grown up with other children who had more. He wanted more and and the only way he could get them was by stealing.

He is likely a person who does not take no for an answer. He has poor impulse control. Throw in a little bit of inferiority complex and you have baked his sad cake.

He has stolen things his whole life and finds it hard to stop. Stealing? He feels entitled more than he feels the thrill of stealing from another.
.............................................................................................................................................................................................

He is a Slyborg trying to find the[missing/defective] parts to make him complete again.

The missing parts are in his head. His parents never put the nickels in his slot for him to complete his 18 year identity tour. Put in a nickel now, you get a slug as change. He remains unfinished. 

He did complete his childhood indentured servitude. 



Outgrow this poor man.


----------



## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Did anybody read my reply wherein I outlined that this man has a mental disease and needs help?

There's a huge difference between a thief who steals from people for material gain, and a person who suffers from a mental issue and has a compulsion to do it, along with the ensuing shame.

If a long and otherwise good friendship is worth throwing away at the expense of a material item and one's ability to lack empathy towards said person, so be it. That's your prerogative.

But please, recognize the difference between a thief with no morals and a person who has a very real mental disorder that causes them to do things that they don't want to do. The act itself likely causes much mental anguish in this guy whenever he does it. It just so happens that his compulsion revolves around something that directly affects the people around him in a negative way. If his compulsion where harmless, he'd be viewed differently, and that's a shame.


----------



## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

SunCMars said:


> People like him often come from either poor homes or homes that did not provide many material things to the children.
> 
> He may have grown up with other children who had more. He wanted more and and the only way he could get them was by stealing.
> 
> ...


Usually I like your posts and insights, but with this, I couldn't disagree more.

The reasons why people develop OCD is as varied and as complicated as anything. I developed fairly mild OCD some 25+ years ago, due to a lot of anxiety over things at that time. I couldn't for the life of me pinpoint exactly where and when it started, but I have a rough idea of the timeline. It just manifested itself slowly, and luckily for me, not in a way that affects others. Basically for me, I played a sport at a high level when I was younger, and superstitions and anxiety started to manifest at that time, due to the pressure to perform.

But that's the thing - sometimes it does manifest in ways that are negative towards others, like in this case. There's no rhyme or reason for it, other than it simply became his 'thing'. The why's are irrelevant. It just is.

One thing I CAN tell you is that it's not due to any one particular negative trait in a person. Nobody can sit here and say this guy developed this way because he was a small-time thief when he was younger, or he was in with a bad crowd, or anything else of that sort. It's logical for one to say this (because we require logic in everything), but unless you suffer from OCD or are a psychiatrist, then you really don't know, and it's all speculation for speculation's sake. We want to KNOW why somebody is the way he is. That helps us decide if they're worthy or not.

My OCD is hidden from the people around me, and I'm lucky. It doesn't really affect my life in any way other than it can be annoying at times. My wife is aware of it, but again, it doesn't affect her at all, so it doesn't matter. I now play this sport at a recreational level, but the anxiety is still there, even though the outcome no longer really matters. Sometimes it's difficult for me to fully enjoy playing it, due to the habits I developed when I was 14 and 15, but c'est la vie.

This guy's OCD, unfortunately, has a negative effect on those around him, and don't think he doesn't realize this. In fact, he's fully aware, and it becomes a vicious circle - trust me on that one. If you think he doesn't feel remorse or shame (especially shame), you're kidding yourself. He doesn't WANT to do these things, he takes no pride in it (precisely the opposite, in fact) and that causes more and more anxiety in him.

If OP doesn't want him in his life any longer, that's fine. It's hard to blame him. But for the rest of you replying in this thread, calling him names, saying he's a terrible person, f*** him, he's a bad friend, etc etc etc - walk a mile, as they say. And be lucky you don't have a mental disorder that causes such anguish in you.


----------



## moth-into-flame (Oct 28, 2016)

SunCMars said:


> People like him often come from either poor homes or homes that did not provide many material things to the children.
> 
> He may have grown up with other children who had more. He wanted more and and the only way he could get them was by stealing.
> 
> ...


He was not wanting growing up - he wasn't rich or anything, but by no means poor either. Middle class.


----------



## moth-into-flame (Oct 28, 2016)

alexm said:


> Did anybody read my reply wherein I outlined that this man has a mental disease and needs help?
> 
> There's a huge difference between a thief who steals from people for material gain, and a person who suffers from a mental issue and has a compulsion to do it, along with the ensuing shame.
> 
> ...


Sorry, I don't view life this way. It's the same knee jerk reaction people have when someone rapes a child or murders (obviously that's a whole other level...) - the politically correct response now is to immediately jump to mental illness. Not everyone who is a sh*tty human being is plagued with some sad mental disorder beyond their control. Some people just suck and are takers who like to see what they can get away with. He's not some poor sob with PTSD or something. He's a shady guy who likes cocaine and stealing things. 

I have a crazy ex wife to deal with, 2 kids from a broken home to raise, a father who I no longer speak to because he's a pedophile and tried to murder his own father with a butcher knife, and an entire side of my family who shuns me because I am not a Jehovah's Witness. Sorry, but I just don't have time or the mental wherewithal for another project. 

I don't feel the need to sh/t on him or yell at him or humiliate him - but it's not my responsibility to get him to stop stealing and committing fraud.


----------



## moth-into-flame (Oct 28, 2016)

alexm said:


> Usually I like your posts and insights, but with this, I couldn't disagree more.
> 
> The reasons why people develop OCD is as varied and as complicated as anything. I developed fairly mild OCD some 25+ years ago, due to a lot of anxiety over things at that time. I couldn't for the life of me pinpoint exactly where and when it started, but I have a rough idea of the timeline. It just manifested itself slowly, and luckily for me, not in a way that affects others. Basically for me, I played a sport at a high level when I was younger, and superstitions and anxiety started to manifest at that time, due to the pressure to perform.
> 
> ...


I simply do not agree that every person that does these things is suffering from some malady and that they deserve sympathy, compassion and help. If everyone viewed the world this way, nobody would ever be convicted of a crime. You are advocating that nobody is responsible for their actions. Zero culpability. Zero responsibility. Zero blame. It actually really bothers me. The hug a thug mentality. "They don't to be punished or condemned - they need our HELP and our LOVE!" Rubbish. They need to be held accountable for their actions.

I suffer from anxiety and have since I was a little kid. I've been treated badly by my family and my father being a pedophile destroyed part of my soul and messed me up in a BIG way. I'm very, very damaged from it. Being shunned by my maternal grandparents, aunts and uncles, cousins etc was damaging too. Everyone goes through crap in their lives. I still know right from wrong and act accordingly (no, I do not claim to be perfect - far from it). Obviously there are people who have actual mental illness and they need treatment. This guy isn't one of them.

He needs to see that actions have consequences. It's not my job to show him those consequences - but it is my job to protect myself and protect my boundaries.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

alexm said:


> Usually I like your posts and insights, but with this, I couldn't disagree more.
> 
> It's logical for one to say this (because we require logic in everything), but unless you suffer from OCD or are a psychiatrist, then you really don't know, and *it's all speculation for speculation's sake.* We want to KNOW why somebody is the way he is. That helps us decide if they're worthy or not.
> 
> OP doesn't want him in his life any longer, that's fine. It's hard to blame him. But for the rest of you replying in this thread, calling him names, saying *he's a terrible person,* f*** him, he's a bad friend, etc etc etc - walk a mile, as they say. And be lucky you don't have a mental disorder that causes such anguish in you.


Thank you for your kind response. Thank you for sharing your own issue with OCD.

Yes, what we all write is speculation. Mine, often, is more intuitive rather than logical [as you stated].

If we do not speculate then TAM is kaput. 

Everyday conversations would also be rendered moot and useless if speculation {based on limited facts, past memories, induction/deduction, intuition} were excluded from use.

This blog is for venting....good oxygen, sewer gas, and nitrous-oxide.

The name calling? Yea, [my use of] is excessive....but makes for a sharp point that OP's immediately feel. The Hope? It alerts them to the jabbing flaws in others. They move away from that which is the real pain...not my words.

I want OP to outgrow his flawed former friend.....not to hate him.

Sarcasm poignantly delivered on the tip of a spear. Sometimes works, sometimes sails over heads.

Your input is also insightful...thanks....Sun setting in Mid-West.


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

moth-into-flame said:


> I simply do not agree that every person that does these things is suffering from some malady and that they deserve sympathy, compassion and help.


Everyone who does what your friend did is somehow screwy. Who knows why, it doesn't really matter. You're not going to Nice him into being an honest person. Maybe some form of counseling would help, but it isn't your duty to force him into it.

A good friend of mine growing up became a klepto by about 5th grade. Shoplifting escalated into stealing from his friends, including me. At one point he broke into our house while nobody was there and took a couple of my cool toys. Though he denied it, other acquaintances confirmed he had matching items which I know he never had before. Nothing I could do about it, and it cost me a couple of other close friends. The klepto was a fun cool kid to hang around with. But he turned on those kids too, and they eventually abandoned him.

I just looked him up on the internet and he is still having significant trouble with the police.

He came from a seemingly good home, upper middle class etc. Who knows why he did/does these things.

I think we can feel sorry for these people but it doesn't make it our obligation to fix them.




moth-into-flame said:


> He needs to see that actions have consequences. It's not my job to show him those consequences - but it is my job to protect myself and protect my boundaries.


Yup, 100%. If you had proof of him stealing it, I would advocate filing a police report. But since you don't, the best consequence is to cut off all contact.


----------



## DepressedHusband (Apr 22, 2011)

moth-into-flame said:


> We have been friends since 2006 - when we were paired together as musicians to play an outdoor festival. We became very close friends. He's a bit of a troubled soul, and will intermittently disappear into depression or anxiety, and sometimes we won't talk for weeks. Smart guy, funny, but has some issues. One thing I've learned about him over the past few years is that he's a bit of a klepto. He talked about filling up a grocery cart and just walking out without paying - several times. One time getting busted. He has talked about insurance fraud (admitted to it), all sorts of scams and swiping stuff - he once walked out of a music store with the store's Macbook Pro under his shirt. So some fairly big theft. It's purely a compulsion - he's not poor or anything.
> 
> Recently he told me he lost his job - a high paying gig. He didn't say why. A mutual friend told me he was fired for some sort of prescription fraud involving work. I never got the details. I know he had foot surgery a little bit prior and was on bed rest and taking narcotic 'scrips...maybe he got addicted, maybe not. Not sure. Could be just more compulsive behavior.
> 
> ...



you are surprised when a dishonest person is dishonest ? I don't know what to ****in say ?


----------



## moth-into-flame (Oct 28, 2016)

DepressedHusband said:


> you are surprised when a dishonest person is dishonest ? I don't know what to ****in say ?


Then why are you here?


----------



## moth-into-flame (Oct 28, 2016)

I've frozen him out - never did reply to a text asking for a hangout 3 weeks ago. Just got another one "What's happening my man?? Let's get a hang going!".

Debating whether or not to communicate to our mutual friend what's going on (he's on a ship and can only communicate via Facebook messenger) or just leave it. Eventually the mutual friend will no doubt ask what's up.

Reread his response to the original question back in August. It was actually "That's weird. I'll check my backpack just in case". And he never addressed it again (no confirmation or denial). So he never even actually denied it. Smh. Kinda was wishing it would just go away and I wouldn't hear from him.


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

moth-into-flame said:


> I've frozen him out - never did reply to a text asking for a hangout 3 weeks ago. Just got another one "What's happening my man?? Let's get a hang going!".
> 
> Debating whether or not to communicate to our mutual friend what's going on (he's on a ship and can only communicate via Facebook messenger) or just leave it. Eventually the mutual friend will no doubt ask what's up.
> 
> Reread his response to the original question back in August. It was actually "That's weird. I'll check my backpack just in case". And he never addressed it again (no confirmation or denial). So he never even actually denied it. Smh. Kinda was wishing it would just go away and I wouldn't hear from him.


Sounds you have found your "closure" writing it all out here... the question "Should I confront?"...you have decided to let it go...it's done... Closure is important in these things.. good for you.


----------



## moth-into-flame (Oct 28, 2016)

Just got this text. Think I'm going to have to tell him why I'm not responding. Kinda manipulative...reminds me of my exww.

"Hey my friend. I know it's been a while since we connected & I hope everything's good with you. I'm really sorry that all his time goes by between our visits, I miss you lots. I haven't been OK for months and haven't really been letting my people know. If you find yourself with some time, I'd love to talk or hangout soon. I'm not doing great and could use a friend"

However I'm working on a huge, high priority project for work right now and I just can't deal with this right now. Won't respond today - probably tomorrow. Can't get caught up, need to focus.


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

moth-into-flame said:


> Just got this text.* Think I'm going to have to tell him why I'm not responding. *Kinda manipulative...reminds me of my exww.
> 
> "Hey my friend. I know it's been a while since we connected & I hope everything's good with you. I'm really sorry that all his time goes by between our visits, I miss you lots. I haven't been OK for months and haven't really been letting my people know. If you find yourself with some time, I'd love to talk or hangout soon. I'm not doing great and could use a friend"
> 
> However I'm working on a huge, high priority project for work right now and I just can't deal with this right now. Won't respond today - probably tomorrow. Can't get caught up, need to focus.


Curious to hear how it all turns out.. if/when you respond.. if this gets opened up ..... Please keep us posted.. when you get a moment!


----------



## moth-into-flame (Oct 28, 2016)

Well, I responded to that text and called him out. See below. Not exactly a strong denial. Feels very manipulative. 

*Me:*

"Hey man, I'm sorry to hear you're having a rough go. I've been out of touch because something is bothering me. I think that capo somehow made its way out of my house with you. I'm worried about you man. But you gotta be straight with me."

*His reply:*

"Oh **** man, thanks for bieng honest my friend. You can always do that with me. It definitely didn't and I want you know that my relationship to my word is really important, so you can trust me. 

I'm totally happy to chat with you more about it too. And I'm never offended by your asking, so don't be shy."

___________________

I was pretty disappointed by his response but it's to be expected. I was thinking, if the shoe was on the other foot, and he accused me of this, and I was innocent, I'd be _pissed_. My response would be "uhh, NO, I didn't take your ****, why the f would you accuse me of such a thing??"

Then my mind jumps back to the response he initially gave me: "That's weird. I'll check my backpack just in case". Then no follow up whatsoever - never mentioned it again until I called him out.

I told my colleague about this the other day - and when I got to his above response to the initial question, she burst out laughing. That was telling.

Anyway, haven't replied to his reply.

Then, a couple hours after I texted him calling him out, he put this on Facebook:

"Today I'm at a total loss. I'm no longer precious; maybe never was. My reality has become a brokenheartedness so profound that I'm spellbound. I don't know what I did wrong, and nothing I try is making it right.

Hug your friends. And be honest with each other for christ's sake."


----------



## tropicalbeachiwish (Jun 1, 2016)

Yes, it's a strange response (both times). If someone accused me of it, I'd be angry. This person isn't as if he's used to it.


----------



## moth-into-flame (Oct 28, 2016)

tropicalbeachiwish said:


> Yes, it's a strange response (both times). If someone accused me of it, I'd be angry. This person isn't as if he's used to it.


Used to it, and/or guilty as sin.

"It didn't". Is that how you'd respond?


----------



## moth-into-flame (Oct 28, 2016)

I messaged our mutual friend, the guy who was there that night, and told him my issue. Here's his reply:

"Heavy.... I have little information but I know he's in a hard place. I heard from you. Him. And (his girlfriend) all in a span of minutes. He said she's ****ed around. She said she ****ed up... So he's on the lurk for a friend. I love (mutual friend) dearly. But he needs to be called. I think he took your capo to... It never turned up when I was hanging with him in C town last year.. But you've had issues before... You need to follow your heart on this bro. If your inner voice is telling you to confront, then do it. You are one of the deepest strongest people I know (me). You Can do both at once. Yo can confront him about what are seriously deep seeded issues for him (and ultimately sewing the bed he lies in) while also being a true friend and helping him with his needs. Likely you will console hurt while also getting an admition from him. Thus you can give him a shoulder when he needs it while also getting the information you need to decide whether he needs to be at arms length or not.... My gut feeling is you should confront him. That situation had crept up for me multiple times since August (about the capo)... You need to follow your intuition. I know you're strong and I know you're clear with your intention."


----------



## tropicalbeachiwish (Jun 1, 2016)

moth-into-flame said:


> Used to it, and/or guilty as sin.
> 
> "It didn't". Is that how you'd respond?


No, I wouldn't be doing word dances. I'd just say "no, I didn't steal your xzy and I'm offended that you think I did". 

At this point, I'd just let it go. Remember what he's known for and never invite him into your home. And certainly, never leave anything of yours unattended around him. 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## moth-into-flame (Oct 28, 2016)

tropicalbeachiwish said:


> No, I wouldn't be doing word dances. I'd just say "no, I didn't steal your xzy and I'm offended that you think I did".
> 
> At this point, I'd just let it go. Remember what he's known for and never invite him into your home. And certainly, never leave anything of yours unattended around him.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Thanks for the reply.

I highly suspect this isn't the last I'll hear from him. I'm expecting a call at some point.

How about that woe is me Facebook rant?


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Ah, the disappearing capo! Mine disappear regularly. Two college aged daughters and their friends who all play guitar in my music room. Borrowed guitars, jams, gigs, etc. Maybe capos are lost in the laundry along with socks! Now I'm in my own place and the kids are out of the house, capos have a much longer lifespan.

I understand how you could have a shadow of doubt that he stole it.  But unless you all had equipment out and using it, there is no chance he would accidentally mix it into his stuff.

But more seriously, this guy has a problem with theft. Regardless of whether he took your capo, he doesn't sound like the kind of person I'd want around my nice stuff.

His replies and the FB rant all sound crafted with purpose.


----------



## moth-into-flame (Oct 28, 2016)

Thor said:


> Ah, the disappearing capo! Mine disappear regularly. Two college aged daughters and their friends who all play guitar in my music room. Borrowed guitars, jams, gigs, etc. Maybe capos are lost in the laundry along with socks! Now I'm in my own place and the kids are out of the house, capos have a much longer lifespan.
> 
> I understand how you could have a shadow of doubt that he stole it. But unless you all had equipment out and using it, there is no chance he would accidentally mix it into his stuff.
> 
> ...


The shadow of a doubt is what's eating at me - but it's not even a shadow. We weren't jamming or anything - he didn't bring any gear over. So no chance it got mixed up.

I agree on the "crafted with purpose" thing. All very round about and crafted to create distraction/deflection. The circumstantial evidence is powerful, as is his reaction/texts/wording used. Just doesn't add up.


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

moth-into-flame said:


> The shadow of a doubt is what's eating at me - but it's not even a shadow. We weren't jamming or anything - he didn't bring any gear over. So no chance it got mixed up.
> 
> I agree on the "crafted with purpose" thing. All very round about and crafted to create distraction/deflection. The circumstantial evidence is powerful, as is his reaction/texts/wording used. Just doesn't add up.


So what you're doing is Wishful Thinking. You don't want it to be true he stole from you. Things do add up when you have the correct information. In your case, the correct information is he stole it from you but doesn't want to admit it. He also thinks he can gaslight you on it.

If you didn't have equipment out, there is no way he accidentally picked it up. I have all my cables labeled with colored tape because it is easy to not know which is your own stuff in the chaos of load out. Capos, mic stands, and other gear is just so similar. But since there was no guitar playing going on, there is no logical explanation as to why he might think the capo was his.

There should be no doubt that he intentionally stole the capo.


----------



## moth-into-flame (Oct 28, 2016)

Thor said:


> So what you're doing is Wishful Thinking. You don't want it to be true he stole from you. Things do add up when you have the correct information. In your case, the correct information is he stole it from you but doesn't want to admit it. He also thinks he can gaslight you on it.
> 
> If you didn't have equipment out, there is no way he accidentally picked it up. I have all my cables labeled with colored tape because it is easy to not know which is your own stuff in the chaos of load out. Capos, mic stands, and other gear is just so similar. But since there was no guitar playing going on, there is no logical explanation as to why he might think the capo was his.
> 
> There should be no doubt that he intentionally stole the capo.


Thanks man. Yeah - the gaslighting thing. All the replies/posts are very manipulative and quite icky actually. Regarding wishful thinking - this is sad, but I'm hoping he did take it so that I'm not wrongfully accusing him. My biggest fear is not that I have this "friend" who's a thief that stole from me, but that I'm wrong. Honestly, after being cheated on by my exww, I don't put anything past anyone. My kids and my parents - that's kind of the only people I trust. 

He really showed an ugly side when he was leading the band too (the band disintegrated a couple years back). Shady dealings. He knows me and knows I won't stand for this kind of behavior. I have firm boundaries - probably I'm actually a hardass about it now - more so than ever before. I wonder if he thought about that when he ripped me off. I know most people would probably let it slide or give him a second chance. I can't.


----------



## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

I have a plan to solve this mystery!

Set your friend up. It's safe to say that if he's guilty, he'll do it again given the opportunity.

So find an item, maybe a broken iphone you can purchase on ebay for a small sum, or some other small electronic device that has no value but looks like it does.

Invite the friend over. Leave him alone with the item available for him to do with as he pleases, but of course don't just leave it sitting on the middle of the table, that's too obvious and he might not take it even if he wants to because he'll be easily caught. Put it with some important papers on a desk, sort of sticking out or whatever.

If it's gone when he's gone, you know.

P.S. I hope this goes without saying but don't leave any other valuables within his reach.


----------



## moth-into-flame (Oct 28, 2016)

browser said:


> I have a plan to solve this mystery!
> 
> Set your friend up. It's safe to say that if he's guilty, he'll do it again given the opportunity.
> 
> ...


I doubt he'd be stupid enough to try it again - but regardless, I wouldn't invite him over again. 

I suspect once he knows he's busted and he's on the radar, the fun/thrill goes away for him.


----------



## Haiku (Apr 9, 2014)

moth-into-flame said:


> ...
> 
> This sucks - because I consider him one of my very best friends. But this is absolutely a deal breaker for me - but of course, I don't have video evidence or a confession. If I knew 100% he did it - that would be it - I'm done. Of course there's the minute possibility he didn't, but geez - I really don't think that's the case.
> 
> So - any advice?


You have no alternative but to waterboard him.


----------



## WoundedTiger (Dec 26, 2016)

I think you need to confront him and use short language. 

*You may see it on him, he may even confess.

*Getting into confrontations makes you stronger. Next time it could be something else, but you learn from every serious confrontation.

*It makes you better at spitting liars, something you will benefit from every day.


Of course afterwards, you dump him and I would also spread the word.

Finally, any friend of yours that still sees him, you cut out as well. He obviously respects this thief more than you,


----------



## moth-into-flame (Oct 28, 2016)

No communication since his weak-ass denial.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

If he was a teenager pulling this crap......OK. He will grow out of it...hopefully.

He is an adult pulling YOUR patience, pulling HIS pud in satisfaction.

Do not let him get off.........at your expense and his pleasure.

Hit his unlike icon, unfriend him. Let him play his music in his closet, alone.


----------



## moth-into-flame (Oct 28, 2016)

No communication since his last text denying it until last night, when he sent this:

"Hey man. We need to get this straightened out. I know we both have the ability to get to it like adults, so let's chat it out. This is nothing worth losing an awesome friendship over. I miss you man, let's get to the bottom of it."


----------



## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

moth-into-flame said:


> No communication since his last text denying it until last night, when he sent this:
> 
> "Hey man. We need to get this straightened out. I know we both have the ability to get to it like adults, so let's chat it out. This is nothing worth losing an awesome friendship over. I miss you man, let's get to the bottom of it."


I'm going to run his text through my BS Translator. "Hey man, we need to get this straightened out so I can come over to your house again and steal more of your stuff".

You could respond. "Everyone makes mistakes. Return the stolen item and we'll just pretend it never happened. Until you do so, do not contact me again".

Then you'll either 1- hear from him again with the same old BS at which time you can start blocking him on phone, social media, etc. 2- he'll return your item and THEN you can block him on phone, email, and social media...


----------



## moth-into-flame (Oct 28, 2016)

browser said:


> I'm going to run his text through my BS Translator. "Hey man, we need to get this straightened out so I can come over to your house again and steal more of your stuff".


Yup. Gaslighting, big time. Basically calling me immature.


----------

