# HELP!!! I want to walk out so badly



## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

I am new to this forum. After being married for 2 years, my husband and I fight constantly, about anything and everything. The smallest things-we don't fight about major stuff, but the tiniest thing said in the wrong way or tone turns into an absolute blow out. It is never physical, but what he says and does is so hurtful that I just can't stand it anymore. Yesterday we had plans to go to lunch for Valentine's Day. He and I got into an argument because I didnt know what I wanted to do after lunch, since I always have to decide everything. When he gets mad he is absolutely impossible to talk to, so I shut down and he will prod and prod and prod and because I shut down I just cannot articulate or express my feelings. I told him we could do whatever he wanted after lunch and somehow he thought I had an attitude so he said you know what, we are going nowhere fast, [email protected]&$ lunch, I'm not going and he walked out and said thanks for a great Valentine's Day. We haven't talked since. I stay in the bedroom and he stays downstairs, he will cook all the food and leave nothing for me to eat. I am not perfect I just don't know what to do. When things are good they are great and we are so in love and he's the best husband, but when a sensitive subject comes up or one of us has a bad day and we are not all smiles, all hell breaks loose. I want to go to counseling because I don't see how it can work if things continue but he says it's not fair to give him an ultimatum, which I'm not, I just want to save our marriage. I really don't know what to do and I really feel like packing my stuff up and leaving because maybe then he'll realize how seriously I take this and how unhappy I am. I think he thinks he can say whatever he wants and act however because I'll never leave. Is it normal to fight like this? All I see is happy couples all over FB with adorable children I don't understand how things could be this bad unless it's all in my mind and I'm blowing things out of proportion. I'm sure it could be worse I just don't understand how he can be so spiteful and hurtful if he loves me. What do I do?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Wow.

1. Screw Facebook! What you see there is as truthful as any other advertising. 

2. Try to ask for what you want from him in positive terms. Ex, "I want you to give me more time to gather my thoughts. I want to discuss this once I've cleared my head. I feel flustered and can't gather my thoughts." You notice how you are essentially saying he is badgering and crowding you, but you are putting it in terms of what you want from him and NOT what you don't want from him. Makes a huge difference.

3. You both seem to think the other person can read your mind. When you hear him getting frustrated because you are being -in that moment- indecisive say something like "I know I'm frustrating you right now, I'm just flustered and can't decide."

4. Remember why you married each other. No one ever said life was fair, in fact most people agree life is not fair. But together you two can prop each other up or tear each other down. Getting married essentially means we agree to prop each other up when the goings gets tough. Getting married does not mean life will be romance and perfect children forever.

If you get tongue tied, write him a letter that states what you want from him positively.

I strongly encourage you both at attend couples therapy because you both need communication skills to save your marriage, but it is totally saveable!


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

Don't think that everyone has the perfect marriage. There is no such thing as a perfect marriage, what we have is an understanding, shared respect and affection. Each marriage has its ups and downs and outs. What you guys need is to learn how to deal with those down and outs. 

You need to learn how to fight fair and with out malice. You need to learn how to pick your battles. You to learn that you don't need to be right all the time. By you, I mean both of you.

What are the little things you fight about?


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

Thank you for the advice. we will fight over very small things like dinner. we will sit there talking about what we want for dinner and I will say that I would prefer doing something quickly because I've had a long day at work. he will respond oh OK I just thought you might want to do such and such instead. I will say OK that's fine all I'm saying is I'm I just would've preferred doing something simple versus spending 90 minutes cooking up a meal. this will turn into an argument because he does not cook which is fine I really enjoy cooking just not after I've been at work from 5:30 AM to 7 PM. He will say that's fine I just thought that you might want to do something together since we haven't seen each other or talk to each other all day so it be nice to spend some time together doing something fun. I don't know how to respond to that so I will just get quiet and he will get angry but you'll say I promise I will not be mad if you just talk to me tell me how you feel so I will I will tell him I'm sorry but I had a long day at work and I would preferred to do something quick and easy. He will think that I have an attitude problem and I'm saying something with a tone when really it's just because I've spent the past 13 hours at work. It goes on and on. Until one of us walks away. My concern is that we will go days without talking to each other but I am always the one to go to him to apologize even if I didn't say or do anything wrong even if he's the one that walked away saying something incredibly hurtful I go to him 100% of the time without failure and he knows that I will and this is very upsetting and hurtful to me because I feel like he's not trying, right now we haven't talked since yesterday morning not a single word to each other and I really don't know what to do because I feel like he just doesn't care .


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

And while I do have a very stressful job, it is not often that I work really long hours so I don't want to give the impression that I'm always working late hours because that I would understand. I was just trying to provide an example.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

How were you guys communicating when you were dating? How how you can speak up?


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

how old are you both?

it takes TWO to tango. tis sounds like a classic power struggle where neither will budge.

this is a loosing and terrible recipe. do you have kids?


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

We communicated fine while we were dating, but we never really fought. I honestly have no idea how we got to this point. There have been so many hurtful things said and there is so much tension and resentment that when I see the slightest flicker of anger from him, I immediately shut down and tell him that I don't want to fight. I hate that I feel the way I do and I hate that I can't speak up but I don't know how to break down the walls between us.


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

He is 37 and I am 31. We do not have kids, though he really wants them (and so do I) I am just so hesitant because we fight so much.


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

Stargazer21 said:


> He is 37 and I am 31. We do not have kids, though he really wants them (and so do I) I am just so hesitant because we fight so much.


having kids now would be the dumbest thing on the earth you could possibly do.


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

Stargazer21 said:


> We communicated fine while we were dating, but we never really fought. I honestly have no idea how we got to this point. There have been so many hurtful things said and there is so much tension and resentment that when I see the slightest flicker of anger from him, I immediately shut down and tell him that I don't want to fight. I hate that I feel the way I do and I hate that I can't speak up but I don't know how to break down the walls between us.


serious marriage counseling.


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

I know and I agree. I just don't know if we need to call it off now or if I'm blowing things out of proportion and making a big deal out of nothing.


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

Stargazer21 said:


> I know and I agree. I just don't know if we need to call it off now or if I'm blowing things out of proportion and making a big deal out of nothing.



this can be sorted out in counseling......then again, if you are having this deep of issues after "only" two years of marriage..... they will get 10x worse when life becomes much more stressful after starting a family.


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

I know and believe me, I understand that kids will only make things harder. I certainly know that, but he does not and he gets mad when I tell him that.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

Do some reading for now, buy this book and read it, His Needs, Her Needs by Hartley.

If he wouldn't attend marriage counseling with you, then, do it by yourself for now.

Others will come along and tell how to proceed. Don't be disheartened. This happens a lot in young marriages. You just have to figure out how to navigate your marriage and what you want in your marriage and for your marriage. 

My iPad is acting up. Do some reading tonight. Take care.


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

Thank you!!!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Stargazer21 said:


> I know and I agree. I just don't know if we need to call it off now or if I'm blowing things out of proportion and making a big deal out of nothing.


Call what off? The wedding? Bit late for that? 

I agree counselling, and anger management for both of you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cecezakat (Jun 20, 2015)

Both examples you gave were about food. Is it usually around food? Talking to each other when you are both tired and hungry is a recipe for disaster when you don't have good communication habits with each other. Exit the conversation before it gets too hot. Tell him you feel very tired amd hungry and are looking forward to spending time with him after you eat and rest. 

He may be having difficulty adjusting to the early stage of marriage when you are winding down from the intense "I want to be with you every second of every day". He also sounds insecure and anxious, which leads into sensitivity over your perceived behavior and results in his anger. The root of that anger is his anxiety about the state of your relationship. He may feel a subtle disconnect when he is apart from you for 13 hours and tries in anxious ways to reconnect with you. You respond by shutting down which increases his anxiety that you are disconnecting from him and that the relationship is in jeopardy. Thats why he often says things like "we are going nowhere fast" and walks away. He feels your shutting down means the relationship is no good and reacts like that to protect himself from what he perceives is happening. His anxiety over your connectedness is also why he waits for you to approach him. He wants proof from you that you still want a relationship with him and he is too fearful of more perceived rejection from you.

He will need therapy to develop healthy habits for handling his anxiety. In the meantime you might try reaffirming that you still love him and want this relationship but you are tired and hungry, etc. It may work in the short term until he gets a handle on his issues.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

Lol, not the right phrasing. I guess what I should say is, is it time to call it quits? I really don't know if during times like now, after a huge blow up and him saying some nasty things, I should let things cool off and let him come to me when/if he's ready or if I should try talking to him.


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

Hi cecezakat, thank you very much for the advice and information. It is definitely not always about food. That was just one of our more recent arguments. I really do think I go out of my way to tell him I want him, love him and want us, but he never says anything like that to me, which makes me feel like he doesn't want me if he seemingly has no problem not talking to me for days on end. So maybe I'm the anxious and insecure one because it would be nice for him to come to me for once but he says, you're better at that. I also don't know if it's just a pride thing


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

No it is NOT time to call it quits.

Honestly, you both totally suck at communicating.

He said he though it might be fun to do something together and instead of responding to his desire to spend time with you AND get a good meal, you went right back to a passive aggressive denial non denial.

I'm sorry honey, I am too tired to make that tonight. Boom. Done. End of story.

He says, but we could make it together? You say, alright but I'm doing it all from the chair and you can fetch everything for me.

Hey compromise!

Or better yet... You say "take off your clothes and just wear this apron and I'll sit here and instruct you on what to do." 3 birds, one stone! Sex, food and you resting.

Stop with the nondenial denial. Stop half assing your feelings. Say what you mean and mean what you say!


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## Cecezakat (Jun 20, 2015)

The behaviors you mention could be just anxiety or part of a larger picture of passive-aggressiveness, manipulation and or abusive attitudes. Its hard to say without knowing more. 

Its not about saying you love him in general but about saying it when you guys are fighting. A very anxious partner can cause you to also become a more anxious person because of their unhealthy relationship habits. 

You will have to reexamine if he is emotional abusive/manipulative or very very insecure and anxious. It can also be both since high anxiety individuals tend to be controlling as a method to reduce their anxiety. 

A therapist can help and/or you reading a lot to try and pin down what's causing these fights.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

I also had a tough time a few years into my marriage. Throw in starting a business together and having kids and there were days I felt like I was standing on the edge of an abyss.

1) Start being more organised in your life, it will greatly help to avoid confusion between you. If you argue over what to cook, do up a meal plan every week and have it written in black and white on the fridge.

2) Stop overcompensating. You fight with him and I bet you suck up big time after each and every fight. You go crawling back with your tail between your legs and make sure you're extra loving after it's blown over. That's not an incentive to stop fighting. Let it go, start trying to get back on a normal emotional level, but don't suck up to him. If he's been a pig he doesn't deserve to have his wife grovelling at his feet.

3) Stop apologising. I apologised for everything at the start. Now I'm the first to admit when I've made a mistake, but I don't apologise unless I've screwed up in a huge way. This is because some people see you as a weakling if you're constantly apologising. My husband is like this so I've adapted accordingly. I'm not weak. Now we still have our tough moments but they seem to blow over quicker and I'm not left feeling like I just got whipped while he's strutting around like he's top sh1t.

4) Make a decision. If he asks you to make it, just make it. 
Him: "What do you want to do after lunch?"
You: "I'd like to go for a walk around the park"

Him: "What do you want to make for dinner?"
You: "How about curried chicken and rice? We have all the ingredients"

In your examples, every time he asks you a question you give him a wishy washy answer. Give him an answer. Wishy washy is aggravating and leads to more confusion.

If he doesn't agree with you, then ask him what he'd like to do instead. E.g.

Him: "What do you want to make for dinner?"
You: "How about curried chicken and rice? We have all the ingredients"
Him: "Oh, I thought you'd like to do something else?"
You: "Like what?"
Him: "Oh, you know, something else"
You: "Ok, I'm just going to the loo/have a shower/read my email. Why don't you want to check the fridge and decide what you'd like to cook and we can start in 10min"


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## Peaf (Feb 8, 2016)

^^^ agreed that wishy washy is aggravating! Definitely plan ahead. He'd probably be thrilled to know what you want. Give him the opportunity to fulfill your needs by making a decision. 

When my husband and I have gotten into those types of arguments , after a couple days we discuss it via email. I know it sounds stupid, but it gives us a chance to get our feelings out without being dismissive (him) or interrupting every two seconds (me) . We aren't great verbal communicators , and this seems to work for us and had helped us resolve some things and discover some soft spots and areas to work on. I know it isn't ideal, but sometimes you gotta work with what you've got. ; )
Hang in there.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

Stargazer21 said:


> I really don't know what to do and I really feel like packing my stuff up and leaving because maybe then he'll realize how seriously I take this and how unhappy I am.


Odd. In one sentence you say you don't know what to do. Then describe, in short articulate detail, the ONLY plan that WILL work.

Take it from someone who has gotten the wake-up call (albeit too late) and learned from it. It will get his attention.


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

This is all great advice, thank you. I have thought about packing a bag and leaving several times. However, we have animals and 2 of them are "mine", as he likes to say because I had them before I met him. If I left, 1) I'd be giving up and I'm sure the first thing he'd do is run to family and friends telling them how terrible I am 2) he has said if I ever leave we are done and he will take my dog to the pound or leave her in the street - he is a little nasty when we fight, not a bad person but when he's mad his judgment is a little clouded, but I'm honestly not sure what he'd do 3) I want to get his attention, very badly, but I also don't think I want to be the one to end things on such a bad note and set ourselves up for a nasty divorce. We still haven't talked and I hear all of your advice and I appreciate it. I don't think I can run to him apologizing this time. I am sure he is hurting too, but he NEVER shows that so its hard for me when all I see is anger and resentment.


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

Is there anything I can do, literally outside of walking out of my marriage and entering into a hellacious divorce, or say that will have an impact on him? He literally just walked into our bedroom to grab his things from our closet and bathroom to move into our guest room/bath, without a word. I don't want to hurt him or be spiteful but I can't imagine trying to talk to him at this point. I am working from home because of the snow and he is getting ready to leave (his job is not flexible like mine) so he's going to leave knowing I am here with nowhere to go and I am just in living hell. I know someone said to think of the good in him and I do, which is why I haven't left yet.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Just carry on with your life, don't let his attitude get you down. If he wants to move bedrooms, that's his choice. Go busy yourself with things that make you happy. 

It's time to put a stop to childish behavior. That goes for both of you. 

You married a man that wants a decisive wife. He married a woman that wants a decisive husband. You are expecting the same of each other and getting nowhere, then getting angry and frustrated that you're getting nowhere. One of you put the darn pants on and decide. I'd usually say the man should do it, but since you are the one here asking for help, I'd say it'll have to begin with you.

I don't have a secret solution, I just know that sometimes tantrums have to be let out completely for any sensibility to sink in. 

When you feel like coming back at him, STOP. When you sense he is starting to get hostile and pick, hold up your hands and say STOP. Emphasize you will not speak 5o someone that can't be civil, then leave the room. Leave the house if you must. Keep up this pattern until he starts to stop himself.

I do agree with others that this situation needs counseling, but you have to get to the point where you can both hold a civil conversation before you can even get that far. You'll waste time going straight to MC, because one of you will get touchy and up and leave the room, then get charged for nothing, then get even more mad. 

Disallow and block the possibility of escalation. Get into this healthier pattern and then maybe and hopefully, you will both be in a better place to speak more civilly to one another.


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## Peaf (Feb 8, 2016)

"he has said if I ever leave we are done and he will take my dog to the pound or leave her in the street "

That is cruel. Maybe you should find a place for her first (with family, friends, a kennel) and then advise him that you're making arrangements for your dog because you are leaving and he cannot be trusted to care for her. My heart goes out to you. 

Who cares what his family thinks if it's at the expense of your well being? Even if you did everything right and it ended, they'd still believe you're a monster because of what he'll say (if he stoops to that level). It can make it hard, however, if you leave, then you guys decide to work it out. That's a risk you need to be willing to take. 

That's the hard thing about leaving....it may or may not go the way you are thinking. It could be a wake up call for him, or it could blow up in your face. But either way, you obviously feel that something needs to change. 

If you DO leave, make it count. Demand a real change, and don't go back until you see it. If it doesn't happen, are you willing to walk away for good? 

Wishing you the best.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Breathe. Resist going into panic mode. 

I know you are hurting. Many of us have been right where you are and know your pain and fear very well who made it to the other side.

Focus on solutions. "I need to understand my H and myself better."

There is a book called You Don't Have To Take It Anymore that hits at the core of these issues and provides a road map out of them.

We're there any addictions or abuse in either of your families? I'm hearing codependency patterns and ACOA speak.


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

We are both guilty of many things, I know that. I really have tried deescalating conversations several times, but when I say I don't get to get into an argument and don't want to continue talking he hits the roof. Initially he will say, "I won't get mad, just talk to me. We have nothing if we can't talk" so I will tell him, ok, I feel x,y,z and he will say, "great. Glad we're having this conversation on Valentine's Day. Thanks a lot" that right there shuts me down completely. I react to him and he reacts to me, it's a vicious never ending cycle. I am keeping myself busy with cleaning and work but I don't think I should be the one coming to him after what he did on Sunday (walking out, cancelling our lunch and saying we are done) is that childish for me to not want to approach him after that last conversation and not talking for 2 days?


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

Blossom Leigh- no abuse issues, that I'm aware of, in our families. What do you mean by codependency patterns and ACOA?


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## IWantGreatMarriage (May 20, 2014)

Stargazer21 said:


> Is there anything I can do, literally outside of walking out of my marriage and entering into a hellacious divorce, or say that will have an impact on him? He literally just walked into our bedroom to grab his things from our closet and bathroom to move into our guest room/bath, without a word. I don't want to hurt him or be spiteful but I can't imagine trying to talk to him at this point. I am working from home because of the snow and he is getting ready to leave (his job is not flexible like mine) so he's going to leave knowing I am here with nowhere to go and I am just in living hell. I know someone said to think of the good in him and I do, which is why I haven't left yet.


Yes there is something you can do. You didn't marry just to get divorced when things go wrong.
What you have written was just like me and my husband the 1st 2 years of our marriage. Always fighting about little things. I asked for advice on this forum, was given some and I took them on board, and we are in much better place.
What helped me get to this situation were:
1. Am not going anywhere. I didn't marry him to get divorced
2. Since am not going anywhere, I can't live in a minefield everyday. I need and I deserve to be happy
3. My happinness is nobody's responsibility, not even Mr IWGM
4. I will lead the way for him to follow. Which means, do to him as I would want him to do to me.
I stopped being angry over small things. I learnt to say what's bothering me in a constructive manner and he actually listens. 
When he is being moody, I give him sometime to get over it. And continue talking to him as if nothing happened. I only apologise if I know I actually messed up.
In your situation, I suggest you be the adult here. Don't apologise, but stopped engaging., stop indulging the tantrum. Start talking to him like you normally would.
And first and foremost, decide if you are in or out. If your leg is waiting by the door, it will eventually find itsself outside it.

Goodluck


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

Lovetoday0-your posts have been very helpful, thank you. To answer your questions earlier, no, he has never abused me or cheated on me, or done anything that would make most rational people leave. However, the hurtful things he says really do hurt and the issue with not saying anything for 7 days-I'm a really bad liar and he knows it. So when he asks me what's wrong and I say nothing, he knows I am lying and will not drop it. By the time he gets it out of me he's so frustrated with how much effort he put into trying to figure out what's wrong that he doesn't care what I'm actually upset about. You're right, maybe I do have a frustrated tone and that's because he never understands what I'm upset about, even when I do speak up and don't shut down, he will say, "I'm not sure why you're upset about that" so he constantly minimizes my feelings and it's almost impossible to get away without talking about it. I certainly don't want to say anything rude to him, and it's rare that I do because I know how much it hurts.


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

Thank you. One of my issues is that I do always take the high road, I always come back to him after a fight and I feel like he expects it. I do want to stay in this but I don't think I should be the one to always fix things by coming to him. Yes, I can try and control my tone, even though it's more an issue of me shutting down. I am not perfect but it is getting harder and harder for me to come to him after a huge blow it. In my mind, he can say whatever hurtful things he wants, walk out of the room cussing and calling me ridiculous and saying our marriage is pointless, then I turn around and come crawling back to him? That's a little difficult for me to swallow but I did finally want to seek some advice so I should be willing to listen to it. Also, I would never bad mouth him to my friends or family. Thank you for all the advice. I do find this very helpful.


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

So when you guys fought did you go days without talking? And did you always go back to him after he belittled your feelings? Did you go to counseling or did you just go out of your way and bend over backwards and he finally changed tunes?


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

Oh and he just stormed out of the house without saying anything. So you're saying you think I should still reach out to him? My heart is literally shattering into a million pieces.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Why is he angry this morning


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I wouldn't, I'd ignore him and go about your life. This strikes me as a power play on his part and I'd suggest you stop sucking up to him every time he throws a tantrum because it will only get worse. 

I understand always being the one to deal with things though, I'm struggling with the same thing with my hb. He doesn't throw fits, just plays dumb and ignores everything. 

In some ways I almost wish he'd throw a tantrum.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

So are we being told he was never like this when you were dating? 

Can't say I relate to him or his approach. Sounds like you both get at each other pretty good and it's only year two.

Both of you will need some counseling to find an effective way to communicate. It's time to throw down that ultimatim or this will continue to spiral out of control.


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

I have no idea why he is angry this morning. We haven't spoken a single word to each other since Sunday morning.

He was NOT like this when we dated. If we fought, which was rare, he would text me or write an email, but he would always talk.

I don't know if it's a power play or if he just truly doesn't care anymore. I hear him on the phone downstairs laughing with his friends, and see his happy, carefree posts on FB (i scroll through fb for distraction and we have all the same friends so it shows up on my page) he's posting about football and how great life is while I'm upstairs in misery and hell. When things have been like this before I have swallowed my feelings and pride and gone to him saying I love him and don't want to fight and his anger will disappear, but only when I'm giving him the satisfaction of grovel ing at his feet. This time, after calling me ridiculous and saying our marriage is a joke and pointless, I'm not even sure he wants me to come to him even if I did decide to reach out him.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Why don't you call his bluff? Tell him that since your marriage is ridiculous and a joke you'll be filling for divorce. 

Do it calmly.

Then watch his reaction. If he calls your bluff have him served.

You don't have to go through with it but it will ferret out whether it's a power play or he really doesn't care anymore. 

Is there any chance he's seeing someone else?

Nobody gets married to get divorced but nobody gets married to deal with a partner who acts like a bratty 2 year old to punish you either. 

Stop kissing his arse.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

No, I don't think he's seeing someone else but who knows. I also don't know a damn thing about divorce. I have said it before, out of anger, and that I was leaving. He just said ok. I thought in VA you had to live separately for 6 months before filing for divorce and if I left, the house and bank account are in his name so I'd be screwed.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Stargazer21 said:


> I have no idea why he is angry this morning. We haven't spoken a single word to each other since Sunday morning.
> 
> He was NOT like this when we dated. If we fought, which was rare, he would text me or write an email, but he would always talk.
> 
> I don't know if it's a power play or if he just truly doesn't care anymore. I hear him on the phone downstairs laughing with his friends, and see his happy, carefree posts on FB (i scroll through fb for distraction and we have all the same friends so it shows up on my page) he's posting about football and how great life is while I'm upstairs in misery and hell. When things have been like this before I have swallowed my feelings and pride and gone to him saying I love him and don't want to fight and his anger will disappear, but only when I'm giving him the satisfaction of grovel ing at his feet. This time, after calling me ridiculous and saying our marriage is a joke and pointless, I'm not even sure he wants me to come to him even if I did decide to reach out him.



This is a time you learn what it means to "get neutral."

For now, don't move towards him not do you move away from him.

The only thing I would offer is "I'm sorry we got sideways Sunday, I know neither of us wanted that"

This opens the floor for conversation when y'all are ready without you owning anything you shouldn't'. Puts voice to the mutual desire to be better and mutual desire to get better. Don't panic and take flight and don't fight. Keep your feet on the ground. There is a way out of this. Just for now resolve to stay put and gain clearer understanding of the dynamics you are seeing.

Are you a reader?


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

If he approaches me I will be calm and collected, but I don't think I should initiate the conversation. Yes, I do like to read.


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## earlyforties (May 3, 2012)

I read the opening post and skimmed the rest through lack of time so apologies if I missed answers to the following..

Has anybody mentioned the sex? How's your sex life? It can't be good if all this anger is occurring. Could one of his problems be some disappointment/hang-ups here causing/adding to his mood (depression)? 

Is it possible that he feels he should be making the decisions but he feels incapable of making the simplest decisions such as what to eat. And because you may have a low self esteem, possibly compounded by his threatening character, you are unable to make decisions and look for him to make them and thereby creating a spiral downwards when you are together.

It may sound an odd suggestion but I would read NMMNG (No More Mr Nice Guy) purely to try to strengthen you. For your own sanity you need to make yourself stronger and gain some confidence and inner strength back to be able to deal with this situation. Of course this book is aimed for guys (No sh1t Sherlock!) but a combination of this and the 180, not with the aim to leave but to find you, may help you look at the situation from the outside.

How you communicate with him going forward.. with a bit of help from above I would try come across as caring of course, but not too caring because he doesn't deserve that much from you right now - he needs to earn it. He appears to be treating you like a child and maybe this is a role you have fallen into over time. Remind yourself that you are an adult and should be treated like one, especially by your husband. Consider your tone and posture when he speaks to you. Do not cower or walk away but at the same time do not be confrontational. 

He may need you to help him with some issues you do not know about. Ask him why he seems so upset and unhappy lately and if there is anything you can do to make things better. Listen and consider if this approach is giving you any different results. I would keep an open mind to where this may all lead. It may be that in the end it is better for you not to be with him. This is something you might want to think about and understand it is always an option. If it never is a possibility and he knows this, then it may be something that allows him to take you for granted.


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## earlyforties (May 3, 2012)

Were expectations built up for the Valentine's Day meal? 
Has sex been regular leading up to this? 
Did he consciously or unconsciously self sabotage the situation?
Valentine's Day is never a good day to get turned down by your partner, even if it is partly because of your own making. This might explain the lengthened period of his coldness towards you?


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Stargazer21 said:


> If he approaches me I will be calm and collected, but I don't think I should initiate the conversation. Yes, I do like to read.


What is your reason for thinking you shouldn't initiate the conversation?


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

The sex in our marriage is good, when we have it, but it is not often and is only when he wants it (maybe 1x every month), the rest of the time, when I try to initiate it I am turned down. Either he is not feeling well or he's feeling self-conscious and uncomfortable. I think 1/20 I try to initiate affection or sex it is received, maybe more, the rest is turned down so I have sort of stopped trying because I don't like being rejected so much.

As far as Valentine's Day goes, we had reservations at a really nice restaraunt where we had to get dressed up. I had done my hair and make up and was wearing a nice dress, 20 mins before we were supposed to leave we got in an argument and he said "f$&@ lunch. I'm not going. This is pointless and our marriage is a joke" and he left me in the room standing there and we haven't talked since. I didn't say anything back because I didn't have the opportunity and I didn't want to hurt him, so I'm not sure why he would be so resentful to me. Now during the fight I did drop my head down and shut down and say I didn't want to fight so I wasn't perfect, but I am really struggling with me being the bigger person in this situation and reaching out to him, because he has NEVER initiated the first contact in the past and if I do so now, after he ripped my heart out, it will only confirm to him that he can do and say whatever he wants and I will come back to him.


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## 85GT-79FJ40 (Feb 13, 2016)

A bit of advice from a guy that has a 20 year relationship on the rocks because we never really fought and I never saw how I was hurting my wife. In a way I'm kind of envious of your fighting. Both my wife and I bottled it all up inside and things got so bad for my wife that she's basically told me she doesn't love me any more. No cheating or anything like that has occurred on either side. If it wasn't for our daughter and massive financial commitments I am positive we would be through. I caused most of it I'm sure but we never communicated our feelings with each other and here I am heartbroken. I would get into counseling now before it's too late. If you keep trying to make up your mind it's just going to get worse. If you both love each other you should be able to work it out. But you need to sit down and calmly let each other know how you feel without screaming at one another.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Stargazer21 said:


> The sex in our marriage is good, when we have it, but it is not often and is only when he wants it (maybe 1x every month), the rest of the time, when I try to initiate it I am turned down. Either he is not feeling well or he's feeling self-conscious and uncomfortable. I think 1/20 I try to initiate affection or sex it is received, maybe more, the rest is turned down so I have sort of stopped trying because I don't like being rejected so much.
> 
> As far as Valentine's Day goes, we had reservations at a really nice restaraunt where we had to get dressed up. I had done my hair and make up and was wearing a nice dress, 20 mins before we were supposed to leave we got in an argument and he said "f$&@ lunch. I'm not going. This is pointless and our marriage is a joke" and he left me in the room standing there and we haven't talked since. I didn't say anything back because I didn't have the opportunity and I didn't want to hurt him, so I'm not sure why he would be so resentful to me. Now during the fight I did drop my head down and shut down and say I didn't want to fight so I wasn't perfect, but I am really struggling with me being the bigger person in this situation and reaching out to him, because he has NEVER initiated the first contact in the past and if I do so now, after he ripped my heart out, it will only confirm to him that he can do and say whatever he wants and I will come back to him.


I understand those feelings. What kind of family did y'all grow up in?


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## Cecezakat (Jun 20, 2015)

Is your husband very overweight? Why is he self-conscious? Do you think he might be using sex as a weapon to punish you and gain power in the relationship?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

I'm really sorry to hear about how things are/have gotten with your marriage and I appreciate the advice. 20 years is a really long time to be with someone so I can't imagine being in that position.

My husband and I grew up in regular families, though both of our biological fathers want nothing to do with us and neither of us have met our biological fathers. However, both of us were raised by awesome men who are technically stepfathers, but we do not see them that way. My mother remarried my "dad" when I was 3 so to me he is my real dad and have never thought otherwise and they are still together. My husbands "parents" got divorced several years ago but they still have a great relationship and my husband still has a relationship with him. Hope that made sense. Both of us were raised by our biological mothers and stepfathers who we both consider our real fathers.


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

My husband is technically overweight, and the doctors call him morbidly obese, although I don't think he is. I am more on the petite side, short and thin, so maybe he feels self conscious for that reason? We are both fairly active, I just happen to be lucky and have a higher metabolism. I'm not sure why he rejects affection because he is a very handsome man and I would think intimacy would make him feel better but I have to understand and respect his feelings.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Stargazer21 said:


> I'm really sorry to hear about how things are/have gotten with your marriage and I appreciate the advice. 20 years is a really long time to be with someone so I can't imagine being in that position.
> 
> My husband and I grew up in regular families, though both of our biological fathers want nothing to do with us and neither of us have met our biological fathers. However, both of us were raised by awesome men who are technically stepfathers, but we do not see them that way. My mother remarried my "dad" when I was 3 so to me he is my real dad and have never thought otherwise and they are still together. My husbands "parents" got divorced several years ago but they still have a great relationship and my husband still has a relationship with him. Hope that made sense. Both of us were raised by our biological mothers and stepfathers who we both consider our real fathers.


Any alcohol or drugs on either side?


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

No drugs or alcohol abuse for either of us or our families. We drink socially but certainly not to excess.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Stargazer21 said:


> No drugs or alcohol abuse for either of us or our families. We drink socially but certainly not to excess.


Ok. In your first post you came across as the same patterns as an adult child of an alcoholic. When there isn't drugs or alcohol in the original family, it tends to mean there was underlying dysfunction that produces the same result as if there had been alcohol or drugs. You can read up on it and see if any of it resonates. It gets a little gray for me when I can see the patterns but the "obvious" causes aren't there. Adult Children of Alcoholics

I will say that another website that helped me identify behaviors I didn't want in my home was Out of the FOG Their glossary has all the definitions in one place, but I would just encourage you to educate yourself on healthy relationships AND what the face of abuse looks like, so you can accurately assess what kind of relationship you have. And how to move forward. And get a good counselor.


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

Thank you!


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

I've even got a thread on it that I post on from time to time that may end up having some useful articles for you.


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## Cecezakat (Jun 20, 2015)

It just sounds to me like he has a ton of anxiety then. I was very similar to him at the start of our marriage and my husband was more the one who shut down. But my husband always acts very charming and would never let us go without talking. He always came to me to make me laugh and to hug. We continued having those petty fights for as long as I didn't address my insecurities and anxiety. But we waited too long, a lot of damage was caused and even though we have learned better skills we are finding it hard to get past the damages. 

I know it doesn't feel fair but if you keep thinking of how to get a win for you and viewing it as "groveling" then you both will stay stuck in power games. 

Try going to him and saying honey I love you and I think we have something great when we don't fight. I want us to see a therapist to mediate discussions of why we fight and how to change it. We can't keep going like this because we are both getting hurt and damaging what could be an amazing marriage. 

Be firm about getting help. Let him know its either getting help or moving on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...al-trauma-its-effects-life-relationships.html


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

Thank you. So I have told him several times I wanted to get help and everytime we try to sit down and look at reviews for counselor, some excuse comes up for him and he won't help. So should I just do the research myself and make an appointment and tell him?


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## Cecezakat (Jun 20, 2015)

Yes. People with high anxiety can get really overwhelmed with choosing a counselor. Just make the appointment amd bring him. I'm willing to bet he is an emotional eater too and is avoiding unpleasant feelings such as anxiety by eating too much.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Stargazer21 said:


> Thank you. So I have told him several times I wanted to get help and everytime we try to sit down and look at reviews for counselor, some excuse comes up for him and he won't help. So should I just do the research myself and make an appointment and tell him?


No, originally set an appointment for yourself and go for yourself. When he sees the healing... he may want that for himself. Unless you feel unsafe. Otherwise, I would handle that differently.


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## 2ndchanceGuy (Sep 28, 2015)

x598 said:


> serious marriage counseling.


^^^^ x 1000


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## Cecezakat (Jun 20, 2015)

Anxiety could also explain why he always wants you to make decisions. He gets overwhelmed and is afraid of making the wrong decision. Anxiety is essentially fear of future events. Fear that sex will go badly, fear if he approaches you first he will be rejected, fear that if he decides it will be the wrong choice, fear that would make you unhappy. But he is taking it out on you. The dramatic things he says like putting your dog out, its all fake and for show. He may view you as strong and is trying to knock you down to his level of weakness. Have you cried when he said those things or did you take it with no expression of hurt? 

He feels so fearful and weak and puts on a dramatic show that he is strong and ruthless, which is hurting you in the process. This will kill your marriage. He needs to do the work or it just gets worse from here. Trust me. I advise you not to stick around if he utterly refuses to get help and if you can't or don't want to be the strong one for both of you. At least see a therapist by yourself, better if you get him to go and do the work.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

It is very rare that I will cry when we fight, though it has certainly happened when we've had serious discussions about divorce. More recently though I either just look at him expressionless or look at the wall/floor while he yells. He, however, shows no remorse or sadness, even when I've cried in the past he only gets angrier and berates me for being dramatic. I've never seen a hint of sadness from him, much less seen him cry. I don't think I have any choice but to take the lead bc I could probably grow old waiting for him to reach out to me


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Cecezakat said:


> Anxiety could also explain why he always wants you to make decisions. He gets overwhelmed and is afraid of making the wrong decision. Anxiety is essentially fear of future events. Fear that sex will go badly, fear if he approaches you first he will be rejected, fear that if he decides it will be the wrong choice, fear that would make you unhappy. But he is taking it out on you. The dramatic things he says like putting your dog out, its all fake and for show. He may view you as strong and is trying to knock you down to his level of weakness. Have you cried when he said those things or did you take it with no expression of hurt?
> 
> He feels so fearful and weak and puts on a dramatic show that he is strong and ruthless, which is hurting you in the process. This will kill your marriage. He needs to do the work or it just gets worse from here. Trust me. I advise you not to stick around if he utterly refuses to get help and if you can't or don't want to be the strong one for both of you. At least see a therapist by yourself, better if you get him to go and do the work.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He's codependent.


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

Based on what I said or are you agreeing with cecezakats comments?


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

Is he an only child? Is he a mama's boy?


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

He has a younger sister, but he is VERY close with his mother. They even work together.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Stargazer21 said:


> Based on what I said or are you agreeing with cecezakats comments?



Based on your comments.


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

I will read up on that (codependence)


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## Cecezakat (Jun 20, 2015)

A few of the things you are mentioning qualify as abuse. He is being loud and dramatic but you are not allowed to cry. He asks for your honesty and then gets angry at your responses... Bring him to a therapist. If he refuses to go or doesn't take it seriously by doing the work the therapist suggests, then you will have your answer that he is not willing to change. No matter what your flaws his behavior is too destructive and will leave you damaged if you keep going on like you are. Its too unhealthy for you to stick around unless he is willing to change and actually does.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Stargazer21 said:


> I will read up on that (codependence)


I see it in both of you. A good resource is the book Codependent No More. I also have several resources listed in my signature link.

Though I don't recommend only doing reading and no therapy, reading in addition to therapy helps build a language around these issues. Definitions help a LOT. Another resource I used heavily in the heat of our issues was www.outofthefog.net

And the books Boundaries & Emotional Blackmail.


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

Do you think abusive people are capable of changing? I know that I can, at least once I am equipped with better communication skills and don't resort to "shut down" mode. But I wonder if the anger issues he has can ever improve and whether I should even try and I saw because I didn't marry him to change him. I also just don't know if he even loves me anymore because I don't understand how he can look me in my eyes, say and do such awful things, be unmoved by hurt I am and walk away. I would feel terrible if I treated someone that way and I would apologize immediately and profusely.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Stargazer21 said:


> Do you think abusive people are capable of changing? I know that I can, at least once I am equipped with better communication skills and don't resort to "shut down" mode. But I wonder if the anger issues he has can ever improve and whether I should even try and I saw because I didn't marry him to change him. I also just don't know if he even loves me anymore because I don't understand how he can look me in my eyes, say and do such awful things, be unmoved by hurt I am and walk away. I would feel terrible if I treated someone that way and I would apologize immediately and profusely.


Yes they can, but you have to assess their capacity and willingness. 

Look through my book list, there is one about Unsafe People. It will take you time to assess. Don't rush it. Assess it well.


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

Thank you!


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## Cecezakat (Jun 20, 2015)

People are just different. He probably doesn't understand why you shut down instead of communicating. It's possible for someone to be very hurtful to their partner and yet love them and want a relationship. He can change if he can be open to help, be honest with himself, acknowledge the pain he caused you and just wants to learn how to be healthy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Well. do you still love him? It has been only two years, and your marriage is full of anger and resentment on both sides. I will go against the crowd and ask you this: is he and this relationship worth fighting for for you? You both in power struggle and you both have issues in communiating, but he does have a mean streak. Threatening your puppy, Diminishing your emotions. You having to justify why you feel what you feel.

Do you want to spend your life like this? 

If you decide you want to fight for it, it has to be wiht marriage counseling, and preferebly IC for each of you. No real changes will happen without something drastic.


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

Those are very good questions. Do I want to spend the rest of my life like this? Absolutely not. Do I love him? Yes, even when he's angry and treats me like crap. He hasn't had the opportunity to provide input and I'm sure I'm painting him in a very bad light because I'm heartbroken but what I'm struggling with is, is he really this, mean, uncaring, insensitive jerk or am I making him that way? We were perfect when we're dating, so is it me who turned the perfect guy into what he is today and if so, do we both have the ability to go back to who/how we used to be? There have been many times where I've said, enough is enough, I don't deserve to be treated like this. It's over, but then I ask myself have I done everything in my power to make this work and am I walking away from something that can be salvaged?


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

Does his mother treat him like he never does anything wrong and constantly praises him?


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

Not necessarily. They work together and they are both loud people and easily excited so they bicker, but what's difficult for me is the difference in how he treats her vs me. Ex: she will call him an idiot, he will say something back, she will cry and he will run to her and apologize and comfort her. Another: I recently had emergency surgery to get my gallbladder removed. When I got sick, I had to call an ambulance to drive me to the hospital because he was working. He didn't show up till after I was out of recovery BUT his mom calls the other night, she smashed her finger in the cabinet drawer (she could move it, it wasn't broken) he asked if she needed us to come over. Then the next morning he says, hey, would you mind texting my mom to see how she's feeling and make sure she's ok........


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

He would not take you to the hospital? Really? WTF?, I say.

How long did you date before getting married? did you live together? It sounds like you love your idea of him, but in reality you got yourself someone completely different.

Maybe you do bring up the worst in each other. Or maybe he is inconsiderate jerk, and it's just coming out. I don't know. What I know is do not spend another ten years living like this, and wondering if you could do more. sometimes we just can not do more, and have to accept it, and act accordingly.


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

No, he wouldn't and that is truly when I started to realize there was an issue. We dated for a year and then moved in together and got engaged. We were engaged for over a year. We were in love and had no issues. Then I moved into the house he owned, we got married, and all hell broke loose at the wedding and things went to sh1t shortly afterwards.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

It sounds like male version of bait and switch. Now, when you are "his" - his wife, in his house, he does not have try anymore. His lack of concern and respect for you creates resentment in you, that starts overflowing all over the relationship. you are in powerplay, but I am not going to advise you to lie down and roll over to please him in hopes he will change. You will be miserable the whole life, adjusting your words and actions as not to create tension. 

Go and find someone who accepts you and whom you will accept. This does not seem to be a case of mutual acceptance, the opposite. 

Go to IC too and try to work on your communication skills, it will come helpful, in this or any other relationship.


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## IamSomebody (Nov 21, 2014)

Peaf said:


> "he has said if I ever leave we are done and he will take my dog to the pound or leave her in the street "
> 
> That is cruel. Maybe you should find a place for her first (with family, friends, a kennel) and then advise him that you're making arrangements for your dog because you are leaving and he cannot be trusted to care for her. My heart goes out to you.
> 
> ...


Someone who would do this to a dog should *NEVER* be around kids. Make sure you triple up on the birth control so you don't "accidentally" get pregnant.

Also, don't leave, even temporarily, unless you are in immediate danger but call 9-1-1 right away. Speak with several shark-like divorce attorneys to get your ducks in a row and find out your rights and responsibilities. Almost everyone has a free initial half hour consultation. Just get your thoughts and questions together before you go so you don't waste the time.

IamSomebody


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

So I decided to be the bigger person today and swallow my pride. I texted my husband around 5, after he walked out on me on Valentine's Day and haven't talked since, and told him I was making dinner and asked if he wanted to join. I hated that I had to reach out to him so I really thought he would acknowledge my actions and appreciate them. Once we sat down to dinner he turned the tv on and started watching sports. I was very calm and polite, I asked if we could talk. I told him I loved him and really wanted things to work. He said nothing, just continued watching the tv. I asked to turn it off, which he sighed and did. I told him we needed to go to counseling. He said fine then asked if he could eat. I kept my mouth shut as we ate, cleaned up and watched a little tv. He then proceeded to call his mom and talked for 30 plus minutes. I was having a little trouble controlling my emotions so I told him I was going upstairs. Surprisingly, he followed. Once we got in bed I figured we might talk a little more to clear the air. Instead, he got on his phone and started playing his game. I rolled over and tried to fall asleep but the tears were rolling. He asked what I was upset about so I told him. He said ok, here we go, I can never do anything right and I can never satisfy. Actually all I said was, I am glad that we talked today, but it was very difficult for me, especially because you didn't say I love you back and you didn't actively participate in the conversation bc you were staring at the tv. He said his chest was hurting so he couldn't say I love you and he couldn't say thank you. I very calmly, and I know I shouldn't have, said that he spoke to his mother about floor tiles for 30 minutes. Not surprisingly, he hit the roof. He said AGAIN this is pointless and we are going nowhere. Then he left to go sleep on the couch. So....yea my first instinct is to leave because I have really had it, but I have nowhere to go and I have my dog and all my things at the house, plus it's not the smartest thing to do. What should I do bc I am literally so heartbroken and fed up right now.


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

The only reason I tried talking to him today and told him how I feel is bc he asked me too. I HATE talking about serious stuff. It drives me crazy, but he said all he wanted was for me to be able to talk to him, so I did and as always he went ape sh1t. I just can't win. If I'm open and honest, it backfires. If I don't say anything, we play the power struggle game in hell for days and days.


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

Op, your husband is a immature ass. If you want to leave him, I dint blame you in the least!! He's a jerk!!


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

I know he has good in him and I am extremely sad and angry right now so that is probably showing in my posts but I'm having a hard time convincing myself that he loves me after that.


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## Cecezakat (Jun 20, 2015)

I agree with LoveToday. It isn't beyond hope at this point. You are right that you shouldn't have said that piece about calling his mom. Those are fighting words because you are trying to argue that you are right and he is wrong and that was your evidence. Of course his excuses were lame and not true about why he couldn't say I love you and thank you. 

You started out intending to be the bigger person but actually having the expectation that he better respond a certain way to acknowledge how big of a person you were being or you would quit taking the high road. It's not the high road if you need him to immediately validate what you are doing in order to keep doing it. I did see him responding to you positively although it was small. If he really didn't give a f*ck he wouldn't have joined you, would've kept the tv on and certainly wouldnt have followed you to bed. Despite that positive sign you set up another expectation that he has to talk to you or his following you to bed wouldn't count. He was slowly coming around, but...slowly. 

I'm not saying you should be doing everything to try to work things out or that its fair. Its not fair. But you are the one asking for help, not him, so don't take it to mean that his behavior is good. I have felt what you are feeling and I know how heartbroken you are and what it was like to cry and then have another fight erupt. It really hurts. 

Take your focus off his reactions to you. You both are waiting for the other to display their desire for the relationship. Don't invite him to dinner because you want him to validate your efforts amd give the right signs you want to see that he still wants you. Invite him because you want to eat dinner and break the silence.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cecezakat (Jun 20, 2015)

From his perspective, not saying he is right or wrong but he probably felt very uncomfortable too and pushed himself to follow you to bed. He probably used his phone to distract from his feelings (and im sure to make it look like he didnt follow you on purpose, cuz thats weak...) 

Then he finds out that you are crying and while he felt he was trying to handle difficult feelings and get over himself, here you are saying it wasn't enough.

Can you see his side too?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Peaf (Feb 8, 2016)

"Actually all I said was, I am glad that we talked today, but it was very difficult for me, especially because you didn't say I love you back and you didn't actively participate in the conversation bc you were staring at the tv".

You should've left out the BUT and been happy for the small progress. That BUT probably negates anything he DID do add far as he's concerned: join you, turn off the tv when you asked, went to bed with you. 
That's a lot of progress since vday, no? 

Next time, maybe just thank him for the efforts he did make and leave it alone.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Heh, or don't thank him for his efforts, because it was stuff all effort. Why are people so damn nice? It makes me sick. If someone's treating you like garbage you don't turn around and say, "thanks!". Did HE say thank you to you for your efforts? Hell no. 

You're sucking up and it makes you weak. He's walking all over you.


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## Peaf (Feb 8, 2016)

^^^ Okay, so no one should be willing to let it go and move forward? 

She started by thanking him. Would I have? No, probably not. I probably would've said something along the lines of, "I'm glad we talked and I hope we can get back on track". But I wouldn't have gone on to say "but you didn't do this". Especially when he keeps saying (I've read it over and over in this thread) that he never does anything right. When you always feel like your efforts go unnoticed, eventually you stop making them.


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## Peaf (Feb 8, 2016)

If she's trying to figure out how their behaviors affect each others responses, 
then there's a place to start.


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## Peaf (Feb 8, 2016)

Ha! I stand corrected. Just reread something. She did not thank him. Not sure why I thought she did. Anyway, my point was just: don't say BUT and give him a last of everything he did wrong. Sorry guys!


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

I hear what you guys are saying, I do. Perhaps what I didn't articulate is that he continually asks for me to tell him how I feel. Did I do it the right way? Of course not, but it's almost impossible When he wont look at me, when he continues to put me down and makes me feel crazy. When he yells, shakes his head in anger and throws his hands around in the air. I do appreciate the efforts he made but it's difficult for me to keep my cool when he is so blatantly disrespectful and rude. All I want is to be treated with respect and I don't think that's too much to ask.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Have you asked though? Have you asked in a way that gets some attention?

I'm not trying to tell people to yell, or throw things, or be insulting, or be jerks, but be HONEST. We all hide our feelings, hide our reactions because we're so fearful. Let it out. He wants to know? Well give him a gobful imo. I get the feeling that you're giving it to him in dribs and drabs, trying to couch it in terms that won't offend him. To hell with it. Tell him EXACTLY how you feel. 

Here he is trying to PULL the information out of you bit by bit. Let the dam burst.


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

The worse feeling in the world is looking at my husband in the eye and seeing pure hatred and resentment so you are right, when I am trying to express myself I tip toe around the issue and what I say because I want to avoid him blowing up and seeing that look in his eyes. If I told him exactly what was on my mind and exactly how I'm feeling I'm not sure how it end, but it wouldn't be pleasant.


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

I couldn't imagine things getting worse but who knows.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

He is seeking your approval of his efforts as a husband. It drives men crazy to hear you did good, but ultimately failed over all. It kills their try. Do you want him to keep trying? Or are you done?


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

It sounds like it's more than just the standard fear you feel. I know that fear of someone who will blow up at you (verbally) and will look so full of hate that it makes you hesitate. That's why they do it; they are trying to intimidate you. It's their way of winning an argument. I also know that when you trust them not to hurt you despite that, you can push back.

If you don't trust him not to turn physically violent than the fear you are feeling has its place to protect you from becoming a statistic. I can't say whether that fear is justified or not. Do you honestly fear that he will hurt you?


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

Stargazer21 said:


> I am new to this forum. After being married for 2 years, my husband and I fight constantly, about anything and everything. The smallest things-we don't fight about major stuff, but the tiniest thing said in the wrong way or tone turns into an absolute blow out. It is never physical, but what he says and does is so hurtful that I just can't stand it anymore. Yesterday we had plans to go to lunch for Valentine's Day. He and I got into an argument because I didnt know what I wanted to do after lunch, since I always have to decide everything. When he gets mad he is absolutely impossible to talk to, so I shut down and he will prod and prod and prod and because I shut down I just cannot articulate or express my feelings. I told him we could do whatever he wanted after lunch and somehow he thought I had an attitude so he said you know what, we are going nowhere fast, [email protected]&$ lunch, I'm not going and he walked out and said thanks for a great Valentine's Day. We haven't talked since. I stay in the bedroom and he stays downstairs, he will cook all the food and leave nothing for me to eat. I am not perfect I just don't know what to do. When things are good they are great and we are so in love and he's the best husband, but when a sensitive subject comes up or one of us has a bad day and we are not all smiles, all hell breaks loose. I want to go to counseling because I don't see how it can work if things continue but he says it's not fair to give him an ultimatum, which I'm not, I just want to save our marriage. I really don't know what to do and I really feel like packing my stuff up and leaving because maybe then he'll realize how seriously I take this and how unhappy I am. I think he thinks he can say whatever he wants and act however because I'll never leave. Is it normal to fight like this? All I see is happy couples all over FB with adorable children I don't understand how things could be this bad unless it's all in my mind and I'm blowing things out of proportion. I'm sure it could be worse I just don't understand how he can be so spiteful and hurtful if he loves me. What do I do?


Please read this, including the hyperlinked pages in the bullets at the bottom. Love Busters

I suspect you are both guilty of some bad habits of how you treat each other, that if you eliminated them you might be very happy. (disrespectful judgments, angry outbursts).

You may find that if you clean up your side of things he naturally comes around and starts treating you better. That would be great.

If not, you may have to separate to get his attention. I'm stereotyping, but men have a tendency to think everything is fine regardless of how upset you are as long as they can keep doing what they want and the woman hasn't left.

He says it is not "fair" for you to give him an ultimatum. That is just manipulation. Because, ultimately, if you are too unhappy for too long you will leave. That's just a fact.

I would not threaten to leave if he does not do x, y, or z. What I would do is practice very calmly saying things like "I am extremely unhappy and I cannot take the pain of living this way much longer." If he says you're threatening him say something like "I am just letting you know where I'm at." If he says you are wrong to feel that way, don't argue with him, just repeat like a calm robot "I do feel this way. I want our marriage to work so I am letting you know."

Meanwhile read up on those love busters and try to eliminate all of your own.

Oh, and Facebook? It's just like high school - everyone else seems happier, more popular, more successful ... That's just human nature. I love it to stay caught up with people but if you find you cannot stop comparing your life to what you think other's have, I'd take a hiatus from it. They have actual studies now showing that it makes people feel like crap about themselves. Don't feed your own insecurities.

Good luck!


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

breeze said:


> Have you asked though? Have you asked in a way that gets some attention?
> 
> I'm not trying to tell people to yell, or throw things, or be insulting, or be jerks, but be HONEST. We all hide our feelings, hide our reactions because we're so fearful. Let it out. He wants to know? Well give him a gobful imo. I get the feeling that you're giving it to him in dribs and drabs, trying to couch it in terms that won't offend him. To hell with it. Tell him EXACTLY how you feel.
> 
> Here he is trying to PULL the information out of you bit by bit. Let the dam burst.


You might try writing him a letter or email where you can think things through and calmly explain. Give some examples (in a nice way) like "When you say this, I feel that."

I am like you in that I have a lot of trouble verbalizing what is frustrating me in the moment. I will know I hate the way I feel when my DH says or does certain things, but in the moment I usually can't explain why. (In my case he does not want to know and is evasive so that doesn't help.)


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## Cecezakat (Jun 20, 2015)

You say that you can't express yourself to him because he blows up. Its very telling to me when you said "all I said was...." like nothing was bad about what you said. There is a wrong way to tell someone how you feel and what your thoughts are. Your framed your opinions about his interaction with you as accusatory facts. Accusations make people feel attacked, and the way you were describing him as a hothead I was expecting him to blow up on you as soon as you accused him of doing everything wrong. To be honest I was surprised that he didn't explode until the fourth or fifth accusation (well you called your mom and talked about TILES). 

Yes he has anger management issues, but don't downplay how you were expressing yourself. Stick to "I statements" and unarguable phrases. You could have expressed yourself with "why am I crying? I feel sad and I feel disconnected from you. I feel unloved. I feel sad about where this relationship is going. I'm hurt and I don't know how to make it better." If he says your feelings are wrong, you say my feelings are mine and this is how I feel. I understand you care about my happiness and hate to see me hurting and at the same time I just feel sad. I need a hug. Etc etc.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

I'm really glad I found this forum. I do find it extremely helpful, especially because an outsider can see things that I cannot when I'm caught up in the moment, especially like considering things from my husbands perspective.

To answer a few questions: I do not believe my husband would ever physically harm me in anyway. Our fights are never violent, we don't through things at each other or anything like that. I can't say that we don't slam doors because we both do, but our issues have only displayed in verbal altercations, never physical. 

I do want my husband to keep trying and I want to keep trying too. Honestly, without this forum I probably would have called it quits today, after last nights fight. But all of your feedback brought things into perspective for me because I have been selfish and only considered how his words and actions make me feel. I never thought about how what I said last night made him feel by telling him he basically wasn't doing what I wanted. I thought I was the one taking the high road but that didn't end up being the case. I am sure, even though I definitely don't see it, he is in pain too.

That doesn't change the fact that we are now not speaking again and the "power struggle" has begun. Given what happened last night and that I don't really trust myself to communicate calmly with him, I am very hesitant to reach out to him. I think even when we talked last night he still seemed upset over the fight on Sunday. As much as I hate it, I also don't want to appear weak by coming back again because that is a concern for me. My husband is a good mine but I know it gives him satisfaction when I do-like clock work. Any thoughts on how to proceed?


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

Ok I think I said I knew I didn't go about it the right way and that I saw your point. I was upset last night and when I was writing the post I was paraphrasing not giving exact quotes. I was expressing myself to you guys about how I felt after my conversation with him, not stating word for word what happened. Yes, I did wrong last night and I admitted it. I already feel like crap. Thank you for the advice


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## Cecezakat (Jun 20, 2015)

Do you know it gives him satisfaction when you come to him? Is that an assumption because you aren't feeling close and connected to him or is there evidence that he takes pride in his wife breaking the silence first? When you aren't feeling close to your partner it's easy to think a lot of negative things about their character. If you don't enjoy be stuck in a power stuggle then don't think in terms of how he is "winning" and you are "losing". Think on terms of, I'm married and I want a hug so I'm going to get one from my husband. Do things you want to do, normally and for you. You have to stop caring who is winning and losing. You aren't losing anything by breaking the silence. It just makes you look like you are a caring person who wants to be close to her husband, NOT that you are a weakling unable to ignore her husband the longest. Which character trait do YOU want to cultivate? Compassionate Woman or Best Ignorer?

If you treat a man like he is going to fail, he will fail. If you treat a man like he can succeed, he will succeed. When you don't like how he acts say causally gee that's so unlike you honey. You are normally such an attentive husband.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

Thank you, LoveToday0, that is very helpful. No, I'm concerned with proving a point or being right. My concern is that when we have these big blow ups, he has been conditioned to expect me to come to him every time. He confirmed last night that he doesn't ever come to me because he doesn't have to. He said, "that's not what I do. That's what you do and that's up to you" I wish there was a way to change that because I would hope that we would both make an effort. What he said made me feel as though he can just sit back and wait for me to come to him, but if he's in pain too, why can he make a conscious decision NOT to come to me, and just wait for me? It's not about proving a point or being right. I am just confused.


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

Sorry, the beginning of my post should say, no I'm NOT concerned with proving a point or winning.

And yes, he has said that it gives him satisfaction when I come to him bc it shows I care. That makes me wonder ok, so you don't come to me bc you don't care?


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## Cecezakat (Jun 20, 2015)

I would have immediately asked, then what would you do? You know him better but I am seeing him as too cowardly to go to you first. His fear stops him and thats why he thought HE was being so big by following you up to the room. I mean if that fits what you know about his personality then you can try viewing him compassionately that he so afraid of his petite pretty wife rejecting him. Or you can view him as a petty proud man who makes you beg for the silent treatment to end.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cecezakat (Jun 20, 2015)

Feelings are complicated. If he loves you and is afraid of losing you then he could be really happy to see proof from you that you do care. Its selfish because it reassures him at your expense. It doesn't have to mean the reverse is true. He could be too weak to overcome his fear and also swallow his pride whereas you are strong enough emotionally to approach him first. Its not really a sign of who cares more or less but of who is emotionally stronger and more competent, which appears is always you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

You are right and I think that does help put things in perspective. It's possible that the emotional heartache has caused me to view him in another light. I do tend to see the negative. The thought never would've crossed my mind that he was too scared or afraid to approach me for fear of rejection, losing me, etc.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Lovetoday0809 said:


> And *hugs*.
> 
> I've been exactly where you are, believe me.


Ditto


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

When my H and I were in the heat of fixing things, sometimes we would just say "you know what we just didn't get this thing right today, but we'll try again tomorrow." It helped shake off the failures.


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## Lynn508 (Feb 16, 2016)

Stargazer21 said:


> I hear what you guys are saying, I do. Perhaps what I didn't articulate is that he continually asks for me to tell him how I feel. Did I do it the right way? Of course not, but it's almost impossible When he wont look at me, when he continues to put me down and makes me feel crazy. When he yells, shakes his head in anger and throws his hands around in the air. I do appreciate the efforts he made but it's difficult for me to keep my cool when he is so blatantly disrespectful and rude. All I want is to be treated with respect and I don't think that's too much to ask.


I personally feel there is no excuse for his behavior - yelling, putting you down, throwing his hands up in the air etc.. He sounds immature and needs to learn how to manage anger, otherwise you will get nowhere.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cecezakat (Jun 20, 2015)

She really needs to visit a therapist to help determine that. It can be hard for a partner to evaluate whether or not its abuse or just the way two people escalate fights together. He at least has anger issues and immaturity that he needs to do the work on. A therapist is also needed to help her assess if that is realistically going to happen or not.

I know when I was in your place OP that I was reluctant to see a therapist, even just for myself. I deeply regret not visiting one earlier. Most first time visits are free, please try to go.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

You can try to change dynamic between the two of you, but you can not change him. From what you write here, this is more than just two people stuck in power struggle. He does not sound like kind man, he sounds like mean person. You will always tiptoe around him. 

You need to answer honestly if you can handle this and if you want this for the rest of your life? Do you want to be the one who carries this marriage all by yourself, because according to him, that's your role? Do you want to be with the man who will not be there for you in the crisis situation (hospital) because he is angry at you? Do you want to be one of these women who spend their life begging for crumbs of affection and hoping he will change for you? 

and even if he is not as egoistic and mean, as those examples you gave up show - the fact that you see him as such, is very telling.


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## Peaf (Feb 8, 2016)

Stargazer, I thought this might be of interest to you since you can only change YOU and not him...

https://peacefulwife.com/2012/11/05/why-playing-the-martyr-repels-those-we-love/


"The thing about being the victim all the time is that it leaves the martyr powerless to change herself and leaves her totally at the mercy of other people?s behavior. She takes no responsibility for her own health, happiness, joy and spiritual growth. She expects others to make her be happy. So when others don?t do what she wants, she will up the guilt and pressure more and more until the other people eventually abandon her or rebel against her. Yes, people will do what she wants at first out of guilt and pity. But those motivations don?t create strong, healthy, loving family relationships or even friendships."

"A martyr often WILL NOT directly ask for what she wants. She expects people to read her mind. She will not ask for help......She will NOT say how she feels or what she needs. Then she resents other people for ?making? her do all the work."


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

Peaf- am I understanding that based on what and how I have communicated thus far is similar to behaviors/communications of this martyr?


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

I do not think Stargazer is martyr. She is woman who found herself in very confusing situation, and is trying to to figure out her options.


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## Peaf (Feb 8, 2016)

I think there are a lot of similarities and maybe something to consider. I certainly think that you are getting SOMETHING out of this cycle... Not sure what. 

I wonder if he used to respond differently to you in the past when you were coy or indecisive? 

I've noticed that you will say certain things to allude to the fact that you are scared of him "we might end up on the 6 o clock news" then changed to "it might end very badly" and then backtrack and say he wouldn't hurt you physically. It trumps up the concern and the intensity of the situation. 

I've noticed that you seem to consider advice, but then have reasons why you can't follow through. You basically say you are trapped in the situation. 

You state you want to change the relationship, but I think the only change you really want is for him to change to suit you.

Just my view from the outside and based on what very little I know and you based on what I've read. 

With best regards only....


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

If there are no real concerns about physical violence, then the fear is not real. Being timid and not just responding to him with full disclosure is wasting both your time and his and just leading you around in circles.

You said he frequently asks what's going on in your head (my interpretation of what you wrote, correct me if I'm wrong); which makes me think he's frustrated that you won't speak plainly. He frequently asks what you want to do and gets frustrated when you won't just offer a suggestion, instead you give him an open answer like "whatever you want" or "something easy". He's asking you to be more assertive, he's asking you to be more open. His reactions don't help you to do this, but I think you pay way too much attention to his blustering.

I think you should ignore the aggressive/angry behaviour to some extent. Your reaction to his reaction seems to just be perpetuating it. Either you're backing off like he just turned into a growling dog, or from something else you wrote, you're becoming aggressive yourself with door slamming etc.

Him behaving like a child and letting his emotions dominate everything doesn't mean you can't start to analyse your own. Stop letting fear rule you.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

At the moment you're probably feeling a lot of anxiety and stress. You need to focus on something else for a while. Do something that you love to do. Plan to watch a movie you've been wanting to see tonight, and curl up on the couch with a bowl of popcorn (whatever you like). Or maybe plan an evening out with a friend. Decide to do something you enjoy, just for you. Your whole life doesn't have to revolve around this argument. You are still here, he's still here, it's not a big deal in the scheme of things, you can still find something to be a little excited about. I would get excited over a day to myself to read a book, but I'm a bit of a hermit, so whatever works for you!


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

If we assume that some of you are right and I am causing him to react so harshly (I will admit that I am certain I contribute, to what extent I don't know) but let's say I am instigating this "cycle" and his behavior or reactions, can you please tell me how I should handle this situation. I agree that I really need to spend some time focusing on something else instead of analyzing and dissecting every word and facial expression so here is what's happening now. I walked in the door after work and my husband was on the couch. I said hi and he smiled. We have men working in the basement and right at that moment one came up the stairs asking for a check because they were finishing for the day. My husband walked over to fill out a check. I walked over to him and said I was going to change and asked if he needed anything. He said no. The worker then asked my husband to look at the basement. I said I needed to quickly respond to a few urgent work emails and would then come down. He turned around and walked downstairs. I hopped on my computer. My cell phone is still in my purse on silent. I checked it after I finished my email. He texted me and said are you upset that I had to finish up with them so they could leave. Then 1 minute later went ??? I just saw the texts and was beginning to respond when I heard him coming up the stairs. He said, "is your phone broken or do you just not feel like responding" I said I had just seen it and didn't have the chance to respond yet. He said "yea, I know you always put your work first over me" let me first say that my job is such that if I get an urgent call that is regarding a physical threat or someone is in possible danger, I do tend to respond rather urgently to advise. I looked at him and in my head counted to 3 and calculated what I wanted to say. I said I apologized and said I had an urgent matter to respond to quickly. He laughed and said "I give up. When you're done working I'll be downstairs". Please don't get the impression that I am a workaholic because I'm pretty far from it. I typically work 35-40 hours/week, 9-5, no weekends. Very rarely I will have an urgent situation and I have worked 13-14 hour days but for the most part when I'm home I'm home. If I get an "urgent" marked email or text on my work phone I will respond for safety reasons so this I can say that I don't understand bc he's actually never brought up my work as a concern before, other than a concern for my own safety. So...if it's me that instigates or manipulates things, how do I respond or what do I do to ensure I don't screw up our next interaction?


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## Cecezakat (Jun 20, 2015)

You didn't instigate. Looking at your role in the previous fights does not mean you always or usually instigate fights with him. Starting fights is different than helping to escalate a fight. Your husband seems to be the main instigator and you sometimes contribute to escalating the fight to more intense levels. 

Today he clearly picked a fight with you. When people have resentments and unresolved feelings sometimes they purposefully pick a fight so they can angrily express what bothers them. He seems to be very insecure about how much youncare about him. He is jealous of the time you spend working instead of with him. His level of upset about your work is not normal.

You came home and said hi, then mentioned taking care of some work emails. He felt jealous and resentful and could not let it go. He keep thinking how angry he is while he was downstairs. He is also confrontational so he decided to pick a fight with you. He then rushed upstairs to vent his anger on you because he has pretty much no ability to handle anger in an adult manner.

You do not need to say sorry. You can try one method, which is to smile sweetly and say I know you really missed me but I'm free now so let's spend some time together. Redirect him away from his anger and model calmness and happiness for him to follow suit. It may or may not work depending on the severity of his anger issues. 

It can't be said enough that he needs to work on that or you need to consider exiting this relationship.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Stargazer21 said:


> If we assume that some of you are right and I am causing him to react so harshly (I will admit that I am certain I contribute, to what extent I don't know) but let's say I am instigating this "cycle" and his behavior or reactions, can you please tell me how I should handle this situation. I agree that I really need to spend some time focusing on something else instead of analyzing and dissecting every word and facial expression so here is what's happening now. I walked in the door after work and my husband was on the couch. I said hi and he smiled. We have men working in the basement and right at that moment one came up the stairs asking for a check because they were finishing for the day. My husband walked over to fill out a check. I walked over to him and said I was going to change and asked if he needed anything. He said no. The worker then asked my husband to look at the basement. I said I needed to quickly respond to a few urgent work emails and would then come down. He turned around and walked downstairs. I hopped on my computer. My cell phone is still in my purse on silent. I checked it after I finished my email. He texted me and said are you upset that I had to finish up with them so they could leave. Then 1 minute later went ??? I just saw the texts and was beginning to respond when I heard him coming up the stairs. He said, "is your phone broken or do you just not feel like responding" I said I had just seen it and didn't have the chance to respond yet. He said "yea, I know you always put your work first over me" let me first say that my job is such that if I get an urgent call that is regarding a physical threat or someone is in possible danger, I do tend to respond rather urgently to advise. I looked at him and in my head counted to 3 and calculated what I wanted to say. I said I apologized and said I had an urgent matter to respond to quickly. He laughed and said "I give up. When you're done working I'll be downstairs". Please don't get the impression that I am a workaholic because I'm pretty far from it. I typically work 35-40 hours/week, 9-5, no weekends. Very rarely I will have an urgent situation and I have worked 13-14 hour days but for the most part when I'm home I'm home. If I get an "urgent" marked email or text on my work phone I will respond for safety reasons so this I can say that I don't understand bc he's actually never brought up my work as a concern before, other than a concern for my own safety. So...if it's me that instigates or manipulates things, how do I respond or what do I do to ensure I don't screw up our next interaction?


He's obviously feeling like he's low on your priority list but in all honesty, he's being a little silly. I regularly miss DH's calls to me when I'm at home. He gripes about it. He leaves voice messages like, "argh" or gibberish. I tell him, "I'm at home! call me at home! I don't carry the stupid phone around with me." If he was messaging me while we're both at home I would be asking him if he'd lost his mind, lol.

I wouldn't have apologised personally. You did nothing wrong, so why say sorry? Just makes you look guilty.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Lol, my posts in this thread probably make me look like I'm engaging in constant power struggles at home. In all honesty, if I let DH walk all over me, he would. I love him to bits, but I'm not stupid. I think it'd probably happen the other way as well. We do go through bad patches but the biggest thing to get us through those times is honesty and fearlessness. The last time we had some big issues to deal with was because DH hid an issue from me and it surfaced later on during something else. He didn't deliberately lie or conceal the issue, he just didn't know how or when to raise it with me I think. This meant that it wasn't one issue we were dealing with, it was two at once and it made it so much worse.

Don't be one step out the door. To give this your best shot you have to be fearless and you have to be 100% present. If you don't dig your way up through the sh1t, you'll drown in it. It might take a while to get through your problems, years even, but you come out the other side a better person and a better spouse.

Your most recent interaction with him is really a non-issue. You made it a bigger issue by thinking you needed to apologise etc. You didn't. He texted you when he could've just talked to you. Simple issue which he'd already fixed by coming up to talk to you. Your response, "I only just saw it. There's no issue, we're all good" give him a kiss, go back to what you were doing. Sorted.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Ok I'll weigh in.

We have no idea what H thinks here.

Why don't you ask him and then listen and ask probing questions.

He is clearly beyond a threshold here and has told you many times in the dialogs you have written.

He doesn't believe he matters to you.

Have you read his needs her needs yet? If not immediately get it at any bookstore or the library.

I hear a guy who sees all your interactions as proving his belief that he is an appliance or a chair in your world. Useful but not that important.

It doesn't matter if he is right or wrong. When people reach this point they panic and their pain comes through as anger - particularly for men who suck at differentiating emotions. They don't think or respond rationally. Normally logical guys start behaving irrationally - emotionally.

Men can be strong but brittle - like untempered steel or a glass block window. I see his laughing and joking while you cried as bravado - "I'll show her what it feels like to be emotionally ignored"

If you read HNHN, you'll see sex, respect, admiration as top needs for men. I have heard almost no affirmation of these things - only hurt, heartbreak, pride, lashing out, passive aggressive behavior, etc.

What if you sat down with him, turned off your phone in front of him, and asked "how can I show you that I respect you, and admire you as a wonderful man, husband, friend, and lover? What can I do to fulfill your sexual fantasies and needs and show you the lust I feel for you?"

If you can't honestly ask these questions - and I suspect you would find them difficult to swallow - your problems could be much deeper than you thought.

BTW He's acting like a dolt - so either he truly is an a55hole or is very hurt emotionally.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

He's looking to you to resolve his anger. Problem with that is you are not responsible for all of his anger. He is not only creating some of that all on his own, he is also not recognizing which parts he needs to self resolve. He needs to learn to self resolve some of that. By you doing your part on what you should own and what you shouldn't own and using boundaries, it will eventually mature him in the area of self assessing well. One book that is good for learning accurate boundaries is the book Boundaries by Townsend.

So your husband not only has anger issues, his self assessment skill is underdeveloped.


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

Thank you very much, everyone!


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Peaf said:


> I've noticed that you seem to consider advice,  but then have reasons why you can't follow through. You basically say you are trapped in the situation.
> 
> *You state you want to change the relationship, but I think the only change you really want is for him to change to suit you.
> 
> ...


That's why I think this does not have a good prospect for the future. I think they both married the idea of each other, not the real person. He really irks her, she really irks him. They can try and overcome, but it will always be struggle.

Despite, the guy is not really that great to fight for. I had much worse fights with my husband but I am sure he would drive me to the hospital even if fuming at me.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Ok I'll weigh in.
> 
> We have no idea what H thinks here.
> 
> ...


Do you have any thoughts about what I said? I don't see you considering his needs. What are your thoughts - not blossoms.


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

If I didn't consider his needs, feelings and perspective, and based it all on my needs and feelings, I think this marriage would've ended a long time ago. Of course I consider his needs, he's my husband. We are both contributing to what is a very tumultuous relationship, I think it's best to meet with a marriage counselor who has the opportunity to hear both sides, not just mine. I am sure if my H were posting what his perspective was, he would get feedback that I sound terrible as well. I am really hoping that will help us identify what triggers the other person and how to avoid that or at least get through it without getting into a huge blowout fight.


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

And also, in terms of sex, I am the one always want more of it and more often. There are many times I'd say 9/10 times I try to initiate it where he says no, so I'm confident he is not feeling deprived (unless it's just me and he just doesn't want it with me)


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Your answer confuses me. I was specifically asking about the needs for respect, admiration and sex. Have you read his needs her needs yet?

If you haven't you will find that couples often do many many things they THINK their spouse wants and needs, but often those things don't matter at all to the other person. So both THINK they're doing so much for the other, but the other is doing NOTHING for them. That's because we place a much lower value on acts that don't address our needs.

Let me give you an example. My W works day and night caring for everyone in the house. Laundry, cooking, driving, scheduling. Then she's exhausted. I don't care about any of that. I've told her to stop doing those things for me. I want to sit and talk with her - get her undivided attention - every day. But I rarely get that. So every time she chooses to set out my clothes and make me breakfast before I wake up, but I don't talk to her, I feel neglected.

I think you two are missing each other's needs is all, but are aggregating the situation by thinking you're doing so much for each other.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Stargazer21 said:


> And also, in terms of sex, I am the one always want more of it and more often. There are many times I'd say 9/10 times I try to initiate it where he says no, so I'm confident he is not feeling deprived (unless it's just me and he just doesn't want it with me)


Don't be so sure. There are many times where men are uncertain or anxious and avoid sex even though they want and need it. It is the one time men are emotionally vulnerable. It isn't rational but I've been there. It just confuses things.


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

So what do I do when he's "not in the mood" to make sure he's not deprived?


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

Ah, I see. No, I have not read the book but will certainly do so as I agree with you that we both are missing that piece.


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

Did your W read it as well? Or did you just have a conversation with her (like you suggested I do with my H) about what your needs/her needs are? My concern is at this point I don't think either of us know how to have a serious conversation without getting emotional and angry. I know that sounds terrible but I actually think (and I could be wrong) if I brought up the subject with him he would say, "let's just let the MC figure out what we need to do. I don't want to fight". I know a conversation like that shouldn't cause an argument but in the past we've both had very good intentions going into a conversation and things will come up or something and we will argue.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Stargazer21 said:


> So what do I do when he's "not in the mood" to make sure he's not deprived?


I suspect it's a symptom of the other baggage. Guys junk doesn't always work right when we're distracted by resentment, anxiety, etc. from what you've said, H is a whole ball of this.

Here's a little TMI. If you casually mention youd like him to come to bed, and are showered, in something pretty or sexy, and have a vibrator out and in use when he walks in and say "now I can get what I really want and smile at him" or something you might defuse the tension.

Hopefully you won't be raw by the time he comes in though - be careful if he's caught in a movie


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## Cecezakat (Jun 20, 2015)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Don't be so sure. There are many times where men are uncertain or anxious and avoid sex even though they want and need it. It is the one time men are emotionally vulnerable. It isn't rational but I've been there. It just confuses things.


Add to this that his doctors categorize him as morbidly obese. She mentioned she is petite so I'm sure that plus anxiety equals his rejection and lack of intiation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Read it for yourself first.

No my wife avoids these things but I'm working on it


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Stargazer21 said:


> If I didn't consider his needs, feelings and perspective, and based it all on my needs and feelings, I think this marriage would've ended a long time ago. Of course I consider his needs, he's my husband. We are both contributing to what is a very tumultuous relationship, I think it's best to meet with a marriage counselor who has the opportunity to hear both sides, not just mine. I am sure if my H were posting what his perspective was, he would get feedback that I sound terrible as well. I am really hoping that will help us identify what triggers the other person and how to avoid that or at least get through it without getting into a huge blowout fight.


Actually yall to a degree she is missing them, but she is also taking hyper responsibility for his reactions. Its going to take her time to sort the difference.


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## Cecezakat (Jun 20, 2015)

WandaJ said:


> That's why I think this does not have a good prospect for the future. I think they both married the idea of each other, not the real person. He really irks her, she really irks him. They can try and overcome, but it will always be struggle.
> 
> Despite, the guy is not really that great to fight for. I had much worse fights with my husband but I am sure he would drive me to the hospital even if fuming at me.


We don't know the full story of what happened with that incident. I'm not getting that he has such a mean personality that he purposefully didn't help her because of anger. He fights with his mom a lot too but still shows her care and due concern. It makes me think there is more to that story. Maybe she downplayed how bad it was and didn't directly ask him to take her to the hospital. Or if he had experiences with her that led him to not believe her, although this doesn't seem like the case.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Your answer confuses me. I was specifically asking about the needs for respect, admiration and sex. Have you read his needs her needs yet?
> 
> If you haven't you will find that couples often do many many things they THINK their spouse wants and needs, but often those things don't matter at all to the other person. So both THINK they're doing so much for the other, but the other is doing NOTHING for them. That's because we place a much lower value on acts that don't address our needs.
> 
> ...


Are you kidding me?? So, you choose to answer your "neglect" with emotional blackmail?? Come on. She is doing acts of service for you, you reject it and then use your emotions as a weapon. 

There are MUCH better ways to get that need met that are not destructive like that. Holy crap...

OP, so that you know since all of this is newer to you, that is not what boundaries are for. Boundaries are for legit destructive behaviors. I don't consider his wife loving him in an acts of service way, destructive to his marriage.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Cecezakat said:


> We don't know the full story of what happened with that incident. I'm not getting that he has such a mean personality that he purposefully didn't help her because of anger. He fights with his mom a lot too but still shows her care and due concern. It makes me think there is more to that story. Maybe she downplayed how bad it was and didn't directly ask him to take her to the hospital. Or if he had experiences with her that led him to not believe her, although this doesn't seem like the case.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I feel like we have gaps in information too, not by intent necessarily, but that's certainly hard to make certain calls on this one.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Cecezakat said:


> We don't know the full story of what happened with that incident. I'm not getting that he has such a mean personality that he purposefully didn't help her because of anger. He fights with his mom a lot too but still shows her care and due concern. It makes me think there is more to that story. Maybe she downplayed how bad it was and didn't directly ask him to take her to the hospital. Or if he had experiences with her that led him to not believe her, although this doesn't seem like the case.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Frankly, I do not see many good things about it. I think she still loves him, but does not like him, and that's disaster. I think they both bring worst out of each others. She has problems wiht communicating, and he does not have patience to help her with openning up, the opposite, he makes her close even more. She does not have patience for him. That's why I think this is disastreous match.


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## Cecezakat (Jun 20, 2015)

I agree that they are not a good match and bring out the worst in each other. It won't hurt her to ise her marriage as a tool in building up her character and skills while she is waiting to see a counselor and figure out their future. Even a mismatch can have a great marriage so long as they acknowledge the issues and both work on it. Unfortunately many times one or both won't see what they do wrong and refuses to do the work.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Blossom Leigh said:


> TheTruthHurts said:
> 
> 
> > Your answer confuses me. I was specifically asking about the needs for respect, admiration and sex. Have you read his needs her needs yet?
> ...


Not true...

She also works full time. 

I've been very direct for the past 3-5 years and expressed my needs and try to help her address hers. Of course she has none. But I try to decipher anyway,

I completely disagree with her actions and believe they do our kids a disservice. I work on that continually. She attempts to control me through her actions and I attempt to stop it. I've worked with the kids to enable them, bought many laundry baskets, let them decide how to address the laundry issues, and over the past 18 months or so they have taken accountability for this. We've divided up the dishes 7 ways - everyone gets a day. But often W will intercede and do them anyway.

If I'm talking to my kids W will try to stop it and move them along on their homework or some other perceived scheduling issue my W has assumed command of. Lately I've flat out stopped her - nicely said - stop - were talking - why don't you put aside what you're doing and join us. She often does.

I've got HNHN and codependent no more. She avoids reading them.

So I am working on me and continually inviting her to join me and / or work on herself too.

You can not change someone else. You can change yourself and your interactions with others. I believe you owe it to those you love to enable them to help themselves when they are not able to make the changes due to their programming.

Most of all I believe it is important to take responsibility for yourself and be supportive and consistent.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Not true...
> 
> She also works full time.
> 
> ...


I agree with much that is written here.

At the same time my approach would be a framed verbal approach of some sort instead of shutting her out. I do wish you the best working through all of that. It sounds like she might be distracting herself with the extra work or feels that she earns her worth that way. OR she just doesn't know how to balance things well to leave time for relationships. If it were me I would consider refining your boundary approach.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Yes I am very nurturing actually and very protective of her. But I won't be around forever and as I've gained insight into my own behavior and an understanding of hers, I've tried the verbal approach. The problem is she is frozen - literally months without action on her part after agreeing to even simple daily activities.

I fully understand why but she doesn't. She doesn't want to be viewed as "broken" so she shuts down progress it thinking about it.

It's a terrible cycle. So yes I talked and talked, many times, reasonable, unreasonable, etc.

The broader issue is codependency and unworthiness due to her fathers alcoholism. But the protective behaviors she learned as a child have iron clad barriers and protections around them to prevent change and insight.

A very vexing problem.

Maybe I'll post and get help on how to help her break free of this. In the mean time I try to stay positive, spend quality time, bring her flowers, hug her a lot, verbally tell her all the time how amazing she is, etc. I figure she has to eventually see in herself what I see in her if I express it enough. And if she begins to believe it, she can start to shed the protections.

She is making a lot of progress. I just have to be firm about some of these robotic behaviors that set her back and take her away from her relationships.

Those programmed, low value things people do that take them away from their goals and drive them from their spouses - that's what I try to point out to others who post on TAM. That's what I am working on so I see it perhaps.

BTW I am making a million changes in myself too do this isn't a case where the H is trying to fix the W. Just trying to be a better couple and better family. It's an important part of a LTR to keep challenging and improving as we change in life.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Sorry to thread jack OP but as you can see, even in my 30+ very positive relationship, there are communication, needs, listening, behavioral, etc challenges that you must pay attention to. Love is a verb not a noun.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Yes I am very nurturing actually and very protective of her. But I won't be around forever and as I've gained insight into my own behavior and an understanding of hers, I've tried the verbal approach. The problem is she is frozen - literally months without action on her part after agreeing to even simple daily activities.
> 
> I fully understand why but she doesn't. She doesn't want to be viewed as "broken" so she shuts down progress it thinking about it.
> 
> ...


I see you've done a lot of work. Did you see my ACOA thread? There is a link in there to an ACOA blog that has some good articles on the patterns of ACOA, maybe something on that blog would be good. Do you have the big read book from ACOA?



I would still pick a different boundary approach :wink2: but I'm glad you are searching for answers. If you haven't dug into ACOA materials, it sounds like it would help. 

Yes, sorry OP


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

@blossom Leigh I didn't know what ACOA was. Saw your thread. I'll have to look into this. W and I met in college at a party so it was random - neither of us would have picked the other, but that has been a godsend. Both got lucky I suppose


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## kuasamantha (Feb 19, 2016)

hi Stargazer21

i have about the same problem with you and im only getting into this marriage for 3 months. and im started feel like it is better to be alone. the non stop argument i really don't know how to deal with it. 
a minute before we r so much in love a minute after cool war happen.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

TheTruthHurts said:


> @blossom Leigh I didn't know what ACOA was. Saw your thread. I'll have to look into this. W and I met in college at a party so it was random - neither of us would have picked the other, but that has been a godsend. Both got lucky I suppose


It will likely fill in some gaps. . Hope the best!

Hey in your boundary we were discussing I would ask myself "is she responsive " in other words, is her behavior shifting quickly to the desired healthy balance and if she's not, I would frame it if you haven't already. An ineffective boundary used long term builds resentment. You want to be reasonable about how long it takes her to shift/respond to it, but ultimately you don't want one dragging on forever.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Cecezakat said:


> I agree that they are not a good match and bring out the worst in each other. It won't hurt her to ise her marriage as a tool in building up her character and skills while she is waiting to see a counselor and figure out their future. Even a mismatch can have a great marriage so long as they acknowledge the issues and both work on it. *Unfortunately many times one or both won't see what they do wrong and refuses to do the work.
> *
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk



Or one or both refuse to settle and stay in the relationship that takes more from you than it gives you.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

WandaJ said:


> Or one or both refuse to settle and stay in the relationship that takes more from you than it gives you.


Agree there are many different ways relationships become unbalanced.


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## Cecezakat (Jun 20, 2015)

People are changeable. I just disagree that it's settling if you and your partner are pushed to grow in character and eliminate unhelpful coping strategies. Its only settling if you are aware your partner is not going to do any self improvement andd or neither will you. Its their bad coping strategies that are a mismatch and draw out the other. I don't believe thats a permenant personality clash.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

I read an article the other day about people being chronic apologisers. It says something about saying 'thank you' instead of 'sorry'. Since that's one thing I noticed about your interactions, I thought I'd post again about it, but in a more positive light.

An example might be the next time you miss a text, you could say, "I didn't see it until now. That was really sweet though, thank you", instead of "sorry I missed your text" and spending the next few minutes looking for his forgiveness.

Look for the positives in something he does and thank him instead of taking on the negatives he finds in what you do, or automatically looking for the negatives yourself.

I'm trying this too. I had an opportunity the other day but forgot. I could've thanked a customer for their patience rather than apologising (on behalf of someone else in the organisation) for the job being late.


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## sillysophie (Feb 20, 2016)

I'm jumping in late here but it sounds to me like both OP and husband are passive aggressive. I have been married to a PA man for many years and it took me a long time to realize it. He would NEVER ask for or tell me what he wanted but then he would get mad when he never got it. And once he finished telling me that I'd messed up AGAIN, he would shut down and stonewall me for days. For example I would have dinner waiting on the table when he got home and he would get mad at me because it wasn't what he wanted to eat, or because he would have preferred to go out that night. But he wouldn't have TOLD me that. After this happened a few times, I started asking him what he wanted for dinner or if he wanted to go out to eat instead. And he would tell me he didn't care, but then turn around and get upset again when I didn't "read his mind" and make what he wanted. I got to a point where I just stopped cooking dinner until he was actually home, and he had to wait for it when he got home which made him mad too because he would be hungry. If we tried to eat out, we would argue about where to go. He'd tell me to chose a place, I would, then he'd get upset because it wasn't where he wanted to go. Got to the point where I honestly dreaded dinner time. He wouldn't ask for or initiate sex - he would come to bed much later than me and get mad because I was already asleep. He would take my car without saying anything one morning and then get upset that I didn't take his truck to get the oil changed (or new tires, or inspection, etc). How was I supposed to know he wanted me to if he didn't tell me? They talk about women expecting men to be mind readers but he really did seem like he expected me to be. In our case, we discovered quite by accident that my husband has Asperger's Syndrome and it's hard for him to communicate his feelings and needs. We worked with a counselor on behavioral modification and it did help to some extent. The thing that worked best for us was the counselor's suggestion that if he felt he couldn't ask me for something verbally he would text me or leave me a note on the fridge before he left for work. 

Interestingly enough he had the same kind of relationship with his parents when they were alive that you are describing between your husband and your MIL. He was never there for me when I needed him (didn't even come to the hospital for the birth of our children - even when the last one almost killed me - b/c childbirth was too "distressing' for him) but he never left his father's bedside through 4 bouts of cancer (you'd think that was distressing too, right). After his father died, his mother could call him at 1 am just because the cable was out and he'd go running over there (an hour's drive away) to fix it for her. If I'd told him the cable was out he would have told me to call a repairman. He did everything for her, and turned around and expected me to do everything for him. Which I did, because I loved him, which is I'm sure why he did those things for her. But I never got anything in return - not even thanks - maybe because he never got anything from her. Or maybe my expectations were too high, especially for a man with high-functioning autism.

You two both sound a lot like my husband. You both have expectations but you're not really communicating them to each other on a level that you both understand. You both need to stop beating around the bush and start asking for what you want and need OUTRIGHT. Otherwise you will never break this pattern you have gotten into. I really think the best thing for both of you would be to get into counseling now before you build a pattern of resentment that is too strong to break. I also strongly suggest you read the book The Five Love Languages and maybe get the workbook for it as well and go through it - alone if you must, together is even better. Turns out my husband's love language was acts of service - but I couldn't serve him very well if he didn't tell me what he needed.

Unfortunately our marriage is still on the rocks and looking more and more unfixable by the day considering we don't even live together anymore. I'm not sure it would have lasted anywhere near the 20 years it did if we had both been PA. Considering we lived together for 4 years before we married, I'm not sure we ever would have married at all. It still amazes me that I didn't realize there were problems sooner than I did - my only excuse is that I was really young and we were in college at the time, a lot of the problems didn't really show up until we both started working and weren't together most of the time anymore. I did wonder from a few of your posts if maybe your husband is actually jealous of your job. Is that something you've ever discussed with him?


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

Hi-I haven't posted in awhile but tonight we had another argument, oddly enough about my job. I am upstairs writing this in bed and he is downstairs. Everything has been great the past few days-we've even been using the techniques given to me on this site to de-escalate other arguments which normally would've turned into blow outs. Everything was going fine until I told him I might have to attend a work event on Monday from 5-7. My job does not have HHs or any other events, so I understand that he didn't understand the purpose. But when I told him that he instantly turned from dr. Jekyl to mr. Hyde. He was like, are you serious? Where is this and can't you get out of it? What if I had something planned? We keep a very detailed, up to date calendar on our fridge so I know there is nothing going on that evening, but I asked anyway and he said that wasn't the point. I explained to him that I am relatively new to this job and I was asked to speak in the absence of one of my colleagues who just fell ill. I said it wasn't mandatory but it was a huge honor and would be a great way to meet people who I work with, and haven't met, because we are spread across the US. He is a real estate agent and constantly attends networking events and open houses on the weekends and I understand bc he needs to and it's good for his career. I didn't bring it up bc I didn't think it was a good idea. I just said I was trying to understand what his concern was. He said the issue is you're going to go off with these people and not spend family time with me. He said this job was supposed to have a good work-life balance and I shouldn't be going to these kinds of things. I am really trying to understand his perspective but I honestly at this point was very upset. I again said I didn't understand. He said, of course you don't and he laughed. I got up to take the dinner out of the oven and he said, go ahead and walk away like always. I took my juice and dumped it out so that I could get water. I went back to the food and he said, are you going to throw that away too? I said that I think we needed to cool off bc I didn't want to argue. He said, sorry you can't have a conversation like an adult. I looked at him, I was livid, and I said we should talk about this later bc it wasn't going well right now and I was honestly afraid I was going to say something that would really hurt him and I'd regret it and he was like, yep, we'll do it your way like always and I said ok, made him a plate, gave it to him and walked upstairs. He yelled after me and said great communication we have, thanks a lot. I didn't answer and he then yelled, you should just cancel the appointment with the MC, no one can fix this and I'm not f-ing going. I crawled in bed and started writing this.


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

Is it hopeless at this point?


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

I'm confused. Was he upset because you didn't provide him with notice? Because his reaction sounds like he was triggered by the way you spoke to him. It sounded like he felt you were taking him for granted and making unilateral decisions without considering his feelings. I bet he doesn't even recognize that he is feeling hurt and not anger - he seems to have really had his ego tripped or something.

From the way you describe the event, you seem calm and rational and he seems crazy. But I doubt that's the whole honest story.

I think you should consider staying and not engaging next time - your walking away seems to confirm to him that you don't care about his opinions. 

Do you think you have off an attitude that conveyed you thought he was overreacting - but in a dismissive way? That could trigger this.

I'm not saying you're wrong and he's right but am answering your question. The answer is he felt totally butt hurt for some reason. 

If not my suggestions, why do you think he felt so hurt?


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

It's not hopeless. It's never hopeless.

Tell your husband what kind of man he is choosing to be. He is the kind of man who will threaten his wife with leaving her dog in the street or dropping it off at the pound, in order to get her to cower to him. He is the kind of man who will say that he cannot physically say "I love you" while having no problem talking to his mommy for half an hour. He is the kind of man who will go back on his word and refuse to go to counseling, after he has already agreed to go. 

That is who your husband is choosing to be. So, tell him the facts. Don't hide him from himself. But, before you do that, decide what kind of person you will be. Are you the kind of person who simply accepts disrespect? Are you the kind of person who begs for love, even though she is worthy of it? Are you the kind of person who is willing to lie to her husband, saying that everything is ok, when in fact her world is crumbling? 

Eventually, you will have to realize that you get to choose what kind of person you will be. When you do, will he choose to be a person you are willing to devote your life to? 

You can't change him. You can only provide him the motivation to change. changing will always be up to him. 

Today, I logged in my "I am" journal... "I am the kind of person who surprises his wife with extra money so that she doesn't have to worry about money while on vacation."

Its a true statement. I also logged "I am the kind of person who chooses to attempt to understand his wife before passing judgement". Also a true statement. 

If you described yourself with statements that start off with "I am the kind of person who...", what kind of person would you describe?

Be who you want to be. Who you wish you were. In order to be that persin, all you have to do is do it. The feelings are just input. Emotional information. Who you are is what you do. 

Be who you want to be.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

I don't know why he was upset. I was trying to ask him to understand and I have no problem admitting when I've done or acted wrongly so Im honestly not holding anything back or exaggerating what actually happened. I truly didn't understand and asked him several times to please explain. I don't like walking away in those instances but I feel like he actually wants to argue sometimes and I just can't sit there and exchange mean and hurtful words. There are plenty of times that we argue and I come upstairs and think, crap, I shouldn't have done or said this, I should have said x,y,z instead. This was not one of those times. I want to understand what triggered his reaction but from what I heard him say, he was upset that I wanted to go even though it wasn't mandatory. Sure, I won't get fired for not going but it is an opportunity to grow in my career and I'm not sure why he wouldn't support that. His ex cheated on him and sometimes I feel like he thinks I'm her and he's insecure it will happen again. They were engaged and he walked in on them-I get it, I can't imagine the pain he felt but I'm not her.


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

Thank you for the advice As'laDain. That's helpful and much needed advice.


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## Cecezakat (Jun 20, 2015)

I think you did great not responding to his insults and choosing to walk away to cool off! He was saying very mean things that would make any person pissed off and ready to counterattack. He was really trying to get you to fight back with him. You see how the more you resisted fighting, the more insulting he became. I'm glad you were able to stay calm and leave anyway. That is very hard to do when someone is provoking you to fight with them. 

He is trying to get his way by threatening to not go to MC. You need to be firm that MC is happening or you are separating. He has too many issues for you to ignore and keep pushing forward indefinitely. 

A healthy relationship should broaden your horizons and support your opportunities in life. You should feel supported in pursuing a work event that you feel is an honor. You support him and are right to expect the same. 

Sometimes when we make changes for the better, our loved ones make a desparate effort to stop our changes and try to keep us behaving the way they are familiar and comfortable with, even if it protects an unhealthy dynamic. But after some time they adjust to the new healthier dynamic (a week or two). If he doesn't and continues acting so argumentative, then his behavior is always going to be like this and isn't a reaction to the change in you. 

He is choosing to be very controlling and argumentative in response to his fears and insecurity. That is not ok. We cannot handle our fears by becoming controlling, inflexible, and abusive. Now that you walked away to calm down you have to go back and talk about this again. Tell him you are going to the event because it is a good opportunity for you. Tell him you still care about him and you're sorry he feels hurt. Do not discuss that issue further. 

In a separate conversation tell him in clear terms that staying together and not going to MC is not happening. Tell him he has the right to choose not to go, and you have the right to leave a relationship that is not being actively worked on. Tell him what happens if he doesn't work on things and then stand by it. You cannot make this work all from your end, and should get ready to move on if he decides not to go when push comes to shove. Let him know you love and care about him and think this marriage is worth the work. And at the same time, you are not going to subject yourself to a lifetime of unhappiness from being in an unhealthy partnership. Make it clear that is why you will leave and not because you don't care about him. 

Again, I think you did a great job not fighting back and leaving before you lost your cool. That is a good skill to practice even if you are leaving this relationship.


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## Cecezakat (Jun 20, 2015)

Also you said you don't understand why he is upset. He is just afraid. When we are afraid we can say irrational things and behave irrationally. Like you said it could be fear because he was betrayed before and he is really afraid of it happening again. That betrayal may be the reason he keeps mentioning quality time with you. He could be afraid that less time with you indicates you pulling away from the relationship and then cheating. But we can't be controlling and restrictive to a partner who has not betrayed us just because we are afraid. All you can do is always emphasize that you care about him when you notice his fear. You can't make him not afraid, only he can work on his fears.


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## Cecezakat (Jun 20, 2015)

After rereading what you said happened I also think you should be more clear and firm when it comes to your work. It's interesting you said you "might" need to go. That makes it seem open to his input about whether you will go or not. It would be better to say "theres this work event and I feel like its an honor and a good opportunity for my career. I want to go and I'm excited for it. Do we have anything planned that I forgot about?" 

It sounds like you came home unsure yourself if you are going and waiting for his input. I can understand why but I would suggest not showing him ambiguity. He has anxiety which is basically a fear of future events and the "what if..." If you sound unsure of what you are going to do and what you want then he will also feel unsure amd for him that triggers fear of the unknown. You can try to help him indirectly by sounding confident and assured. Your confidence might help him feel confident that there is nothing to fear. 

Its not your responsibility to manage his feelings, but it is possible that he gets an insecure vibe from you and that rubs off on him. He probably can't put his finger on why he feels afraid and bothered by you going to that event. He won't be able to tell you why he is upset because even he doesn't know. He is just reacting without processing. You being more confident and secure may rub off on him and encourage his own confidence.


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

Cecezakat-I really appreciate your advice and feedback. You are right, I did come home telling him I "might" attend the event. I really do feel scared and uncomfortable bringing up things that involve me doing something or going somewhere without him because I dread his reaction. I know that sounds terrible but it is true. If I want to go to lunch with a coworker or a friend, he reacts the same way, but I do always feel uneasy and unsure when I tell him so maybe that is contributing to his reaction? Someone had mentioned that they didn't think I was telling the whole, honest story. The truth is I try to use this forum to be as honest as possible in describing exactly what happened because if I only describe things from my perspective, which is often negative, the feedback I receive via this outlet would be skewed and would not be a true representation of our relationship and what's needed to move forward. I appreciate people's perspectives who are hearing issues about BOTH of us, so that I can better understand how I negatively contributed in that scenario and how to avoid it in the future. I am really hoping he agrees to counseling and I'm really hoping we can work through our issues. I appreciate all the advice.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

As'laDain said:


> It's not hopeless. It's never hopeless.
> 
> Tell your husband what kind of man he is choosing to be. He is the kind of man who will threaten his wife with leaving her dog in the street or dropping it off at the pound, in order to get her to cower to him. He is the kind of man who will say that he cannot physically say "I love you" while having no problem talking to his mommy for half an hour. He is the kind of man who will go back on his word and refuse to go to counseling, after he has already agreed to go.
> 
> ...


that's really great As'la. I am going to steal it, as I am trying to have one of my brothers to save his relationship before it's too late.


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## Stargazer21 (Jan 13, 2016)

I agree-great advice (and much appreciated)!


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

I think we all agree on what happened and how H felt but I'm a man and have a different perspective on how to judge it and what to do about it.

Yes he was butt hurt. No there was no good reason for it. No you did nothing wrong.

Saying H's behavior is not acceptable and that he's controlling is not helpful in terms of finding a solution - it's only helpful to support you - agreeing that you are not at fault. But I'm a man and inclined to focus on fixing rather than examining how I feel about things.

So let me be a little more clear.

Men have pretty fragile egos - if they have allowed themselves to be vulnerable to someone. We spar constantly - with friends and foes. We have d*ck measuring contests - not literally but that's what the corporate political battles really are. We ENJOY this stuff - it's how we get our satisfaction and sense of self esteem. We often go just short of causing total defeat of the other, then go have a beer later.

So we have egos, pride, strength and aggressiveness. Then we go home to our spouses. 

Now in H's case he's been vulnerable - the one thing a guy naturally knows he should never be - with his EXGF. And as a result he was probably permanently CRUSHED and is damaged goods. Any possible vulnerable position he sees himself entering triggers him.

It's wrong but probably true. Once he triggers its curtains to his logical brain. You ARE the EX - or potentially - and he goes crazy.

Thanks for explaining this background. It is very helpful.

So what to do? Of course it would be best to see someone to work through these FUBAR trust issues. IDK there have to be resources for you to better understand this and know how to respond.

My gut level reaction - which could be right or wrong - is to strike his ego and reassure him first and foremost. And make sure he knows this is not a threatening thing. IDK "hon I'm really happy - bad news for someone else but good news for me! I've been asked... and I'm excited to do this. I'd love to have you go with me - I looked into it but we can't bring our spouses. I'll be with (safe woman) and maybe I can have her text you a pic of me talking"

IDK if it will work or not. but it does seem this is an irrational trust issue and you need a way to help him get past it.


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## Cecezakat (Jun 20, 2015)

TheTruthHurts said:


> I think we all agree on what happened and how H felt but I'm a man and have a different perspective on how to judge it and what to do about it.
> 
> Yes he was butt hurt. No there was no good reason for it. No you did nothing wrong.
> 
> ...


I completely disagree that it is not helpful for finding a solution. If she can't label and identify what is going on then she will be stuck on an emotional level with him. She will just feel hurt and resentful. How would anyone want to work on a relationship in that frame of mind? Something men often don't understand is how important it is to validate a women's feelings. Trying to skip her feelings, not showing her support can leave her in an emotional fog where she can't tell up from down. She needs to have a clear mind about what was wrong with his behavior in order to even begin looking at solutions. This support will help her be able to do it in realtime on her own. 

Since she has been getting this support I see a change in her posts. Her earlier posts were looking for validation of her hurt and pain, asking for anyone to acknowledge what she is going through too. Since being heard and listened to she has started thinking more focused and calmly about their issues. That is huge. 

Stargazer, I understand why you dread mentioning certain things to him. But at least one of you needs to be secure and confident in order to have a chance at making this work. A marriage between two very insecure people is just a disaster. Building your confidence will not only help you a lot but may encourage his own confidence. There are times it might be helpful to stroke a man's ego, but it should never be to your detriment. You should not have to be thinking about his ego while you are at a work event and texting him photos of you because you are trying to shield him from his anxiety. That part is his job. He needs to be able to go a few hours without you essentially checking in with him. That only encourages his controlling behavior.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

So clearly Cece and I disagree. You are the one posting so we can't advise H. So help yourself of course, and either support your H to get past his pain or be direct and honest with him if you can't do that and want to leave. 

But don't just work on yourself and leave him in the dark then leave him.

You both have emotional damage you need to work through.

Have you been able to revisit the
situation again and make any progress talking it out? If you haven't talked about it again, why not? It's best to stick with a problem until you can both see each other's viewpoint, even if it is hard.

Good luck


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## cons (Aug 13, 2013)

I really like TTH's perspective, that shouldn't be discounted.

My dear husband has some hurts from the past (infidelity)....as his wife, I choose to care for him (not to massage or stroke his ego) but with loving reassurance. 

Sure, another man may not need as much reassurance, but I didn't choose another man... I chose my husband with ALL of his strengths and ALL of his weaknesses. I am so honored to have a partner that can be vulnerable with me. 

OP- I didn't read every post in this thread, so I apologize if this was already suggested, but watch the TedTalk by Brene Brown regarding vulnerability. It is REALLY good.

Instead of looking outward, why not look inward toward your marriage. This is such an awesome opportunity for you and husband to give mutual reassurance.

I too, have been frustrated when my husband questions or laments when I have had to work late (even sometimes he has leaked sideways and made a comment about "meeting up with my boyfriend"). 

I have learned to validate that I hear/understand that he is feeling insecure. I reassure him that he is mine and I am his. But then, I do call him out on that, when he makes a "boyfriend" comment, it is unfair and hurtful... It is in these interactions where we BOTH acknowledge each other (and, when appropriate , apologize for anything hurtful said or done).

I can choose to be loving and make changes to assure him up front (e.g., give as much notice as possible for late work days, or share my day in detail) or could chose to be resentful ( refusing to "pay someone else's bill")....but it's my choice on how I want to love him...I only have the power to control my responses..my actions...
IME, when I choose to acknowledge his needs... he feels accepted. I can still tell him that I don't own those insecurities (they are his), but I will love him INCLUSIVE of those.


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## Cecezakat (Jun 20, 2015)

TheTruthHurts said:


> So clearly Cece and I disagree. You are the one posting so we can't advise H. So help yourself of course, and either support your H to get past his pain or be direct and honest with him if you can't do that and want to leave.
> 
> But don't just work on yourself and leave him in the dark then leave him.
> 
> ...


I like your input because I think its healthy for her to have more than one view to take in. Reading different perspectives and thoughts can help her find what fits her situation since none of us here can fully see what goes on between them. I do understand what you are saying and there is value to it. I just think she leans towards taking too much responsibility for their marital problems and I'd hate to see her buried by it, especially with her husband handing out insults like candy. 

Her building her confidence and working on herself isn't leaving him behind. A secure partner can model good skills to their partner and may encourage the partners imitation of those skills. 

Maybe being insulted all the time doesn't personally affect you, but I see it affect me and other people I know in very damaging ways. OP needs to be aware of her abilities and strength in order to help her husband and at the same time not be dragged down by his words.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Yes Cece I agree. It's unfortunate that his issues create issues for her. They both need help.

IDK if H can stop this behavior through more reassurance, etc but I think that's the only option OP has. I think H reacts that way out of fear of losing her which either means he really cares or is just afraid of being alone. Who knows

Ideally they will both get help. I any event I think these issues will carry forward to any relationship for H and possibly also for OP.

I've been married 27 years and together 33. We have an amazing marriage - but we've changed so many times over the years as our roles in life have changed. In all cases in a relationship the hardest thing is to put aside what you want and really understand the other viewpoint. But when you do, most things can be worked out if both people really want them to and neither considers walking away until the issues are resolved.

I get that not all issues are resolvable, but maybe in just an optimist.

Good luck and keep talking to H and don't let these abusive discussions be the last word on a topic. If they are he will be conditioned to talk this way. If you keep coming back calmly with the same topic, over and over and over until you can both calmly talk about it you will be training him that you will be reassuring, patient, caring... but not a pushover and someone worth treating with respect.

Hoping...


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## Cecezakat (Jun 20, 2015)

Well said.


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## cons (Aug 13, 2013)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Yes Cece I agree. It's unfortunate that his issues create issues for her. They both need help.
> 
> IDK if H can stop this behavior through more reassurance, etc but I think that's the only option OP has. I think H reacts that way out of fear of losing her which either means he really cares or is just afraid of being alone. Who knows
> 
> ...


Exactly! 
OP- You can be loving yet assertive. His hurtful outbursts are not acceptable (regardless of their origin). If your reassurance doesn't mitigate and change his dynamic, then he's choosing not to make the changes he needs to love you...this is when he needs to step up and choose to love you...if he chooses something other, then you have your answer on what you need to do for yourself.


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