# Suspicions, suspicions



## losing_hope (Dec 1, 2011)

The other day I forgot my cell phone home when I went grocery shopping. 

I noticed it at the store, and knowing my wife I was afraid she would go snooping. But she had promised before not to do that so I was hoping she could keep her promise. But I wasn't terribly concerned that she'd find a smoking gun, since there is none. 

But unfortunately she had.

When I came back, she was visibly agitated. It took several hours until she confessed that she had indeed looked through the messages on my phone.

And she had found something.

She had found a message from my coworker friend (female), saying that she'd bring me underwear.

I can almost hear the pitchforks being sharpened and torches being lit among the readers now.

So of course, the other readers will want to know what kind of underwear was this. Little boys underwear. Kinky? No, she had given me some from of her son's since our son is only a few months younger.

And yes, my wife had seen the underwear too, so she should have known. But of course, when she got the idea that I was cheating on her, it didn't matter.

Even when I said what it was, did I get an apology right away? No, I just got a "But you were thinking of it!"

Sometimes, when I'm in better mood I say that it's like a Three's Company episode here. You know the one, where there's a misunderstanding.


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## KittyKat (May 11, 2008)

Come here to vent. We will listen. I am guilty of doing the same thing as your wife. 

Here's the thing: make her feel loved. If she is snooping, in HER mind, something is wrong with your relationship. There is a reason SHE feels like you may/could be cheating. 

Whether texting, talking or chatting on the computer, make sure you are transparent. Leave your phone laying around. Let her look at it. If you have nothing to hide, this shouldn't be a problem.

Your wife is looking for 'reassurance'. 

What in your marriage has made your wife feel like she needs to snoop?


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## Itsacommitment (Jan 30, 2012)

First off, there is no excuse for such an invasion of privacy. 

Secondly, have you ever given her reason to not trust you? Have you been unfaithful? Deceitful? etc...? 

If you have, then she obviously has not recovered from this, thus the snooping. It doesnt make it right on her part, but we know why. In which case, the two of you need to discuss what is necessary to move on from the previous breech of trust. At some point, if she wants to stay with you, she has to forgive you of whatever you've done and rebuild that trust. Otherwise the relationship will not last, and will not be a happy one. 

If you HAVE NOT been unfaithful or deceitful in anyway, then her behavior is absolutely appalling. Trying to reassure her will not make anything better, nor will it change her behavior. 

Being "transparent" as kittykat mentioned will not change her behavior. She obviously has deep insecurities and major trust issues. You have the right to chat with friends online, and have conversations via text without our wife needing to know all the of the details. I wouldnt ever DREAM of snooping on my husband like that, and I would NOT tolerate it if he did that to me. 

This needs to be made very clear. I would suggest counseling. If she cannot learn to trust you, will you ever be completely happy?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

It does seem like there's more to the story than we're hearing... No offense. Why is she so suspicious? People don't make promises not to snoop for no reason.

C


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## losing_hope (Dec 1, 2011)

Yes, there is more to the story, but probably not what you're fishing for... She has a lot of issues, especially with self esteem, that probably contribute a huge deal to it. Also she has some sort of a mood disorder, so the feelings come and go in waves. 

Fortunately, she is seeing a psychiatrist who seems to be really good with CBT, and he has put her on medication to help her with anxiety and anger.

I am seeing a therapist too, and we do see one together also. So we are working on it.

Yet, the problem for me personally is that when things like this happen, I have no recourse. I have no-one to talk to immediately when it happens. And because of her moods, it sometimes feels like walking on eggshells. They change so quickly that I have to be continuously evaluating her mood, and then react accordingly. Which gets very tiring quickly.

In this case, complete transparency doesn't work. Because it's not about what I do, it all depends on how she feels that particular moment. Things that don't bother her a bit when she's in a good mood might completely drive her off other times. But that in turn makes me feel guilty, because I feel like I have to hide what I do. Even though I've been told by the therapist that I can't keep rescuing her and let her bully me. 

But I want to also point out something here. The message itself was completely innocent. But it was the thought in her mind that made it something it wasn't. As a warning to anyone who is thinking of doing the same to their spouse, are you sure your mind isn't playing tricks on you too?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Without knowing that context, it's impossible to give a meaningful response. Now that you've given that, what's your question? Most spouses in here are not as suspicious and paranoid as your spouse, at least with no reason.

Yes, your wife acted unreasonably, but you already know that. And he's, she shouldn't have gone through your messages and minicomputer to that conclusion. So bring up that situation in counseling, and go from there. Is your wife making any progress in dealing with her issues? Is she actively working on them? I'd find it very hard to live under a microscope like that, especially if I'd done nothing to deserve it.

C


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Itsacommitment said:


> First off, there is no excuse for such an invasion of privacy.
> 
> Secondly, have you ever given her reason to not trust you? Have you been unfaithful? Deceitful? etc...?
> 
> ...


I couldn't be disagreeing with your assessment more. There's no room for this kind of "privacy" in a marriage. It's one thing to be a looming detective and not give space, but there should be no hidden areas in a marriage. If you disagree, hang out in the CWI area and see all the cheating spouses that felt the way you do.

As for the OP, your problems are much bigger than what you're writing. It's not that she's asking for transparency, she doesn't trust you at all. Sounds like her issues are probably bigger than what can be helped here. Also, that you put up with it without setting boundaries tells me you have your own personal issues to work out. I would suggest IC for you too.

My advice is that while you are both in counseling, that you don't hold back your feelings for fear of her getting upset. If she does something, like this, and it bothers you, make sure she knows about it. Otherwise you're just going to be harboring resentment for your entire marriage.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Wait a minute. I'm obviously missing something here. 

I thought in LT committed relationships, accounts like e-mail and cellphones are now open books.

OP, have you cheated before and she found out?

As far as the underwear thing with your co-worker, that is a bit wierd. I think of myself as cheap but I don't think I'll be taking second hand underwear from a co-worker, no matter what the other circumstances are.


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## losing_hope (Dec 1, 2011)

Haha, no the underwear wasn't used. They were unused. Her son just got potty trained but he didn't want to wear that kind of underwear, but maybe our son will when he gets potty trained in a bit.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Ok, maybe the underwear issue isn't so bad. Two moms even at work might do that, I agree.

But I still stand on cellphones, FB, email accounts and so on being open books in marriage. 

Ideally, your wife would calmly ask what underwear is your coworker referring to.......and since you have nothing to hide, you can calmly remind her that they're some extra items that your coworker is simply offloading.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Itsacommitment said:


> First off, there is no excuse for such an invasion of privacy.


WTF are you talking about?
Invasion of privacy LMFAO!!
There is no reason a persons phone should ever be off limits to their spouse.
If you have a need to keep any communication/media hidden from your spouse you are doing something innappropriate period.

Secondly, have you ever given her reason to not trust you? Have you been unfaithful? Deceitful? etc...? 



> At some point, if she wants to stay with you, she has to forgive you of whatever you've done and rebuild that trust.


And the ONLY way to regain lost trust is complete transparency.
Meaning no locked/off limits phones/computers.



> If you HAVE NOT been unfaithful or deceitful in anyway, then her behavior is absolutely appalling. Trying to reassure her will not make anything better, nor will it change her behavior.


Appalling?
LOL



> Being "transparent" as kittykat mentioned will not change her behavior.


It`s the only thing that will change her behaviour if she has trust issues.



> This needs to be made very clear. I would suggest counseling. If she cannot learn to trust you, will you ever be completely happy?



How will she trust him without transparency?


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## losing_hope (Dec 1, 2011)

She doesn't trust me with or without transparency. Transparency won't help, since there's no way for me to prove I'm NOT having an affair. A person can always justify suspicion to themselves: "The reason why there is no evidence is because I just haven't found it, yet."


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Why does a female co-worker have your personal cell phone number?

And, why do you have such contact with a female co-worker that she knows personal business about your home life?

And why didn't your wife already know anything about your previous discussions with this female co-worker about this underwear?

I work outside the home. I keep it strictly professional. I don't talk about personal issues with any of my co-workers. I don't give my personal phone numbers or emails to any of them, either. We are there to work. We are cordial and get along well, but we all seem to keep it oriented toward work, and if someone doesn't I simply don't play along.

Perhaps you should evaluate implementing some firmer boundaries in regards to divulging personal information to people in your workplace.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

losing_hope said:


> She doesn't trust me with or without transparency. Transparency won't help, since there's no way for me to prove I'm NOT having an affair. A person can always justify suspicion to themselves: "The reason why there is no evidence is because I just haven't found it, yet."


You should back down on the friendship with the woman at work; obviously it is bothering your wife.

Transparency WILL work; once you clear out anything that threatens your wife's emotional security. If that means no texts from the woman from work, then so be it. Your wife comes first.


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## FrankKissel (Nov 14, 2011)

losing_hope said:


> She doesn't trust me with or without transparency. Transparency won't help, since there's no way for me to prove I'm NOT having an affair. A person can always justify suspicion to themselves: "The reason why there is no evidence is because I just haven't found it, yet."


This is the truth. 
I can't say transparency won't work, or can't work, or isn't a good idea. I have no problem with transparency, though certainly don't feel any obligation to recount for my wife every human interaction of any given day (nor does my wife owe me it).

Transparency is not a panacea, however. If a person is irrationally convinced their SO is cheating, all the transparency and evidence to the contrary just proves you're good at hiding your infidelity.

Again, there's nothing necessarily wrong with transparency (so long as it doesn't bleed over into controlling, which can be a narrow line to tread). But believing that it'll resolve/cure unfounded and unreasonable suspicion is wishful thinking.

Read up on morbid jealousy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## losing_hope (Dec 1, 2011)

Sometimes parents are proud of their children and like to talk about them.


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## losing_hope (Dec 1, 2011)

CandieGirl said:


> Your wife comes first.


The first step to any codependent relationship.


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## Itsacommitment (Jan 30, 2012)

Are you guys all serious?? I see NO problem with him having a co workers phone number. I also have worked in MANY environments in which we all had each others numbers. Its better to keep in touch if shifts need to be covered or someone needs help. 

Its not that phones and emails should be OFF limits, as in he should be hiding everything. Its that there should be trust in a marriage. And if he hasnt been unfaithful to her, than by snooping in his phone while he was gone shows they she doesnt trust her. A marriage with that kind of distrust will fail. Why did she feel the need to snoop in his phone while he was gone? If she had a question about who he was talking to or something, she could have asked. Or asked to see it. Instead she felt to the need to be sneaky behind his back. If he has given her reason to not trust him, then they need to seek help and conversations need to be had. Snooping in his phone is still not the way to handle it. This is so dysfunctional. 

I would be heartbroken if my husband felt that he couldnt trust me and needed to look through me messages when I was gone. Its not that he's not allowed to see them...why does he feel the need to? Does he really think I'm cheating? 

And I already said, a couple times now, that if the OP has given her reason to not trust him than they NEED help! How does allowing her to see all his messages rebuild trust? He has the ability to delete stuff before she sees it? He can get another phone, another email acct. This does NOT keep him accountable or rebuild trust. It furthers distrust and insecurity. 

AGAIN... I have known MANY cheaters. (I have never been cheated on personally) But cheaters will cheat no matter what. I've never seen a person refrain from cheating or heard of a person refrain from cheating because their wife snooped around. In fact, that just causes resentment and a further wedge in the relationship causing more risk of infidelity.


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## Itsacommitment (Jan 30, 2012)

Losing_hope

I'm very sorry that you are having such a hard time. It must be intolerable to know your spouse does not trust you. Especially if you are a loving devoted husband. (I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here)

Marriage should NOT be about snooping around in every part of each others lives. I get the feeling from your posts so far, that if she had come to you with concerns, or asked to see something specific on your phone (because maybe you were getting a lot of messages or phone calls) you would have been open to showing her or talking about it. Am I right?? But the going behind your back and snooping is in and of itself a betrayal. She obviously doesnt trust you and that hurts. 

I hope that the two of you can work this out.


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## losing_hope (Dec 1, 2011)

COguy said:


> My advice is that while you are both in counseling, that you don't hold back your feelings for fear of her getting upset. If she does something, like this, and it bothers you, make sure she knows about it. Otherwise you're just going to be harboring resentment for your entire marriage.


Now this is a good piece of advice. And something that I have been trying to work on. Because if all I worry about are about her feelings, then unfortunately my own feelings get neglected. Like the psychiatrist said that I can't keep on rescuing her. And yes, I even feel responsible sometimes that my wife needs to take psychiatric medication. 

Which of course is not true.


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## Itsacommitment (Jan 30, 2012)

That must be very tough. It is absolutely important that you are able to speak to her without fear of her reaction. This is also a type of trust in a relationship that you two are obviously missing. COguy is correct, during counseling is probably the best place to start doing that. Do you feel your wife can learn to trust and get over her insecurities??? Over time?


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## losing_hope (Dec 1, 2011)

Itsacommitment said:


> Marriage should NOT be about snooping around in every part of each others lives. I get the feeling from your posts so far, that if she had come to you with concerns, or asked to see something specific on your phone (because maybe you were getting a lot of messages or phone calls) you would have been open to showing her or talking about it. Am I right?? But the going behind your back and snooping is in and of itself a betrayal. She obviously doesnt trust you and that hurts.
> 
> I hope that the two of you can work this out.


Yes, it's one thing to ask about messages, and completely another to go around looking yourself. 

This time, once she finally was able to say it out loud, I explained to her what the message was about. Eventually she did calm down. 

But then later on, sometimes hours, sometimes days, she will start feeling really depressed about herself and having done that. Which does not help her self esteem one bit, because then she feels that why should I stay with someone like her.

See the pattern already? 

I'm not necessarily looking for any advice for her per se. But more for me. I'm trying to find ways of coping with the cycles, and really finding a sympathetic ear so far has been very helpful. 

Of course you could say that I should talk it out with my wife. And I'm working on that as well. But in the mean time I do need some other ways of getting it out as well.


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## losing_hope (Dec 1, 2011)

Also, I have learned that I have to take care of myself first. 

Yes, my wife may have an illness. But if I'm not well myself, how could I even start to help her?


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## Itsacommitment (Jan 30, 2012)

Okay, I see what you are saying. That advice is harder to give. Haha. She has a self destructive cycle, and that is VERY hard to deal with. You naturally want to feel responsible for each of her emotions. I hope that you are able to separate yourself from that responsibility. Remind yourself that you are doing what you need to as a husband. You are supporting her by standing by her while the two of you get help. That is a good thing. You obviously care for her, or else you wouldn't tolerate this and just leave. This is also an admirable trait. Do you see a counselor by yourself? (sorry if you already answered that question) Having someone to validate you feelings and talk to away from your wife can help. I would also suggest finding some sort of physical activity you can do. Physical activity raises your serotonin levels in the brain which help you cope with all types of stresses. It can actually physically help your mind  During this time, try to focus on something else. Giving yourself down time from this problem is necessary in staying sane


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## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

I have no idea why people are blaming the victim here - "What have you done to make her jealous!?!"

Jealousy like this doesn't spring from any particular set of facts and doesn't disappear because of "transparency." 

There's probably nothing WE can do to help him but there's nothing wrong with letting him vent.


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## Itsacommitment (Jan 30, 2012)

I dont know why some people are blaming the victim either. 

Losinghope, I'm SO glad you recognize that you have to take care of yourself as well. Best of luck to you


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

In a committed, loving LT relationship where there is no reason to snoop on your other half, then why do cell phones and e-mail accounts need to be open books - is there no measure of privacy allowed just because you're in a committed lT relationship - is that in the vows somewhere - did I miss it?

I too, was a snooping wife at one time - not because my husband cheated or anything that warranted it - the problem - it took me a while to acknowledge and figure out - was ME.

I was getting older, feeling uneasy, that I didn't "have it" anymore, my self-esteem was in the toilet - I had no confidence - all brought on by myself and about myself - but I projected it onto him and it nearly destroyed my marriage - my INSECURITY.

Once my counselor and I got through it, I realized that I brought it on myself - so I worked to increase my own self-esteem and feel better about me and guess what happened when I did - the fear and snooping went away - so did the suspicions, etc.

My husband (and I for that matter) have a reason to expect some privacy - I did not give up my rights, nor did he to be my own person when we married or my own privacy.

If he wants to see my cell phone and e-mail, then I will open them to him because I don't have anything to hide - but I also expect him to respect my privacy to have my OWN cell phone and my OWN e-mail without him as a joint partner in those endeavors unless there is a need for there to be.

People who believe that a partner does not deserve any privacy have their own issues to work out...everyone deserves the right to privacy unless they do something that gives up that right - if not, then my e-mail is mine and yours is yours.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

losing_hope said:


> Also, I have learned that I have to take care of myself first.
> 
> Yes, my wife may have an illness. But if I'm not well myself, how could I even start to help her?


Illnesses sometimes become scapegoats to excuse all behavior when they are not at the root of someone's all encompassing bad behavior.

My husband has had a previous stroke and brain trauma. While it is an excuse for when he speaks incorrectly, walks abnormally, forgets where he is going, what he is doing, etc., it is NOT an excuse for when he's acting like a jerk, etc.

His counselor has warned me NOT to accept bad behavior as a result of his medical conditions.

I suggest you think about doing the same...while she may have a real and diagnosed condition - not everything she does can be blamed on it - some of it may just her being a b$tch and blaming her illness for it. 

I got caught up in this thinking that I had to excuse "everything" my husband did because he's sick, but his own counselor disagreed - accept what is actually the illness, but do not accept them using it to behave badly.

Good luck!


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## Itsacommitment (Jan 30, 2012)

MarriedWifeinLove I absolutely agree with you! And kudos to you for working on yourself and overcoming a struggle. That is so hard to do. I admire you. I also agree with you on the illness. 
I too have a chronic illness and although that limits the amount of stuff I can do, it doesnt give me license to be disrespectful to my husband.


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## Itsacommitment (Jan 30, 2012)

Yes Angel...my things are not locked up, and neither are my husbands. They arent locked because neither of us feels the need to hide it from each other, and neither of us feels the need to snoop. If I ever had a concern or started feeling insecure or worried, I give my husband enough respect to talk to him about. Even if I felt I needed to see something, I would ask him and express what I was going through. Not snoop around behind his back


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## losing_hope (Dec 1, 2011)

Itsacommitment said:


> Okay, I see what you are saying. That advice is harder to give. Haha. She has a self destructive cycle, and that is VERY hard to deal with. You naturally want to feel responsible for each of her emotions. I hope that you are able to separate yourself from that responsibility. Remind yourself that you are doing what you need to as a husband. You are supporting her by standing by her while the two of you get help. That is a good thing. You obviously care for her, or else you wouldn't tolerate this and just leave. This is also an admirable trait. Do you see a counselor by yourself? (sorry if you already answered that question) Having someone to validate you feelings and talk to away from your wife can help. I would also suggest finding some sort of physical activity you can do. Physical activity raises your serotonin levels in the brain which help you cope with all types of stresses. It can actually physically help your mind  During this time, try to focus on something else. Giving yourself down time from this problem is necessary in staying sane


Yes, I'm seeing a therapist regularly. Although I feel that for me personally, dealing with these things immediately is much more beneficial rather than waiting all the way down to the next appointment.

Also, I did start doing yoga just because of this. It has helped me too I think.

Even though I'm already doing both of the things, thanks for the reply anyway! Sometimes I need a bit of reassurance that I am on the right path, even if the results aren't immediately clear...


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## Itsacommitment (Jan 30, 2012)

It seems that you are doing the right things. You are working taking care of yourself. You are both in counseling. You are trying to be understanding and loving towards her, while still standing up for your rights. You sound like a good husband, and a solid person. I wish you the best


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

losing_hope said:


> Now this is a good piece of advice. And something that I have been trying to work on. Because if all I worry about are about her feelings, then unfortunately my own feelings get neglected. Like the psychiatrist said that I can't keep on rescuing her. And yes, I even feel responsible sometimes that my wife needs to take psychiatric medication.
> 
> Which of course is not true.


It's something I had to learn in my relationship. It was hard at first, now it comes naturally, I actually probably share too much lol. The hard part is understanding that sharing your feelings doesn't place blame or expectations on your partner, it's just an expression of what you feel. Also, hearing her feelings doesn't mean you have to do anything about them. That was hard to, understanding that if my wife isn't happy, it doesn't mean I have to "do" anything about it.

You must learn that you can't control how you feel or how your partner feels, only what you do about it.

Though it can be annoying or difficult at times, this kind of honesty is what drives intimacy. Without it, there's a barrier between you and your wife.


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## GreenEyes (Jan 27, 2011)

Itsacommitment said:


> Are you guys all serious?? I see NO problem with him having a co workers phone number. I also have worked in MANY environments in which we all had each others numbers. Its better to keep in touch if shifts need to be covered or someone needs help.
> 
> Its not that phones and emails should be OFF limits, as in he should be hiding everything. Its that there should be trust in a marriage. And if he hasnt been unfaithful to her, than by snooping in his phone while he was gone shows they she doesnt trust her. A marriage with that kind of distrust will fail. Why did she feel the need to snoop in his phone while he was gone? If she had a question about who he was talking to or something, she could have asked. Or asked to see it. Instead she felt to the need to be sneaky behind his back. If he has given her reason to not trust him, then they need to seek help and conversations need to be had. Snooping in his phone is still not the way to handle it. This is so dysfunctional.
> 
> ...


:iagree: Where I work everybody has everyone's cell phone numbers, we are just a close group of people, even though it's 95% female, we are all like a family here....


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## GreenEyes (Jan 27, 2011)

To the OP, she is more than likely looking through your stuff because she just doesn't trust the person that you are, even if she hasn't found the reason yet, there is some part of your personality that is causing an underlying suspicion. I'm not saying anything bad about you, or even that you consciously act in a certain way, but I was your wife at one point (of course eventually I ended up finding stuff that wasn't harmless). I don't know you or her so I can't tell you what her trigger is with you, but it's like she feels that you would do something behind her back and she is desperate to prove it so she can justify her feelings....I just feel like when you get married you do so to become a unit and I don't see why there would be privacy with phones/emails stuff like that....

My mom and dad have total transparency in their marriage, not for any one reason in particular, that's just how the 2 of them are, they have nothing to hide from each other, and they have had a successful marriage for 32 years with no hard feelings against the other because they can't have private emails and phones...I don't see the point in that particular type of privacy in a marriage...marriage has enough problems all on it's own without that stuff


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

losing_hope said:


> The first step to any codependent relationship.


How do you figure? Discontinuing a behaviour that is obviously upsetting enough to her that causes her to snoop through your phone isn't worth it?


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

GreenEyes said:


> To the OP, she is more than likely looking through your stuff because she just doesn't trust the person that you are, even if she hasn't found the reason yet, there is some part of your personality that is causing an underlying suspicion. I'm not saying anything bad about you, or even that you consciously act in a certain way, but I was your wife at one point (of course eventually I ended up finding stuff that wasn't harmless). I don't know you or her so I can't tell you what her trigger is with you, but it's like she feels that you would do something behind her back and she is desperate to prove it so she can justify her feelings....I just feel like when you get married you do so to become a unit and I don't see why there would be privacy with phones/emails stuff like that....
> 
> My mom and dad have total transparency in their marriage, not for any one reason in particular, that's just how the 2 of them are, they have nothing to hide from each other, and they have had a successful marriage for 32 years with no hard feelings against the other because they can't have private emails and phones...I don't see the point in that particular type of privacy in a marriage...marriage has enough problems all on it's own without that stuff


Great post - the thing that makes me wonder about this OP is how worried he got when he realized he left his phone at home. If there's nothing to hide, then why the worry?


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## GreenEyes (Jan 27, 2011)

CandieGirl said:


> Great post - the thing that makes me wonder about this OP is how worried he got when he realized he left his phone at home. If there's nothing to hide, then why the worry?


Me too.....that kind of sends up major red flags because it sounds like my H, and he did have things to hide at one point....


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## Itsacommitment (Jan 30, 2012)

He was worried when he remembered that he left his phone at home because he knows she like to snoop his phone. This would likely lead to an argument as they are trying to work on her insecurities. Arguments are exhausting.


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## GreenEyes (Jan 27, 2011)

Yeah they are, but if there is a reason she feels this way, it's probably exhausting for her as well....I was there in her shoes, I understand how she feels...


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## FrankKissel (Nov 14, 2011)

GreenEyes said:


> To the OP, she is more than likely looking through your stuff because she just doesn't trust the person that you are, even if she hasn't found the reason yet, there is some part of your personality that is causing an underlying suspicion. I'm not saying anything bad about you, or even that you consciously act in a certain way, but I was your wife at one point (of course eventually I ended up finding stuff that wasn't harmless). I don't know you or her so I can't tell you what her trigger is with you, but it's like she feels that you would do something behind her back and she is desperate to prove it so she can justify her feelings....I just feel like when you get married you do so to become a unit and I don't see why there would be privacy with phones/emails stuff like that....
> 
> My mom and dad have total transparency in their marriage, not for any one reason in particular, that's just how the 2 of them are, they have nothing to hide from each other, and they have had a successful marriage for 32 years with no hard feelings against the other because they can't have private emails and phones...I don't see the point in that particular type of privacy in a marriage...marriage has enough problems all on it's own without that stuff


Wait ... what???
Assuming OP is being honest, his wife is seeing a psychiatrist and taking medications. Which means she's likely battling some sort of mental illness, leading to these behaviors.
Are you really suggesting that he somehow is to blame for her mental illness? 
Dios mio.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GreenEyes (Jan 27, 2011)

FrankKissel said:


> Wait ... what???
> Assuming OP is being honest, his wife is seeing a psychiatrist and taking medications. Which means she's likely battling some sort of mental illness, leading to these behaviors.
> Are you really suggesting that he somehow is to blame for her mental illness?
> Dios mio.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ok what type of meds, because I started taking meds to make my H happy too, because he thought my snooping was due to my depression/anxiety...guess what even though the meds helped me not care, I still had the underlying suspicion because of certain little things he said/did.....and hmmm I was right...taking meds does not always equal a valid mental illness....


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## GreenEyes (Jan 27, 2011)

Oh and if you read my post I also said it isn't his fault and that it could be something he unconsciously does that sets off an alarm for her, because we are all different in what triggers a red flag....I'm saying maybe he should take a good look at himself as well....


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## losing_hope (Dec 1, 2011)

CandieGirl said:


> How do you figure? Discontinuing a behaviour that is obviously upsetting enough to her that causes her to snoop through your phone isn't worth it?


Putting other people first is the first step to a codependent relationship. 

If you have a relative who is an addict, and they get upset because you don't give them money to buy drugs, should you then start giving them money so they wouldn't be upset?


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## GreenEyes (Jan 27, 2011)

losing_hope said:


> Putting other people first is the first step to a codependent relationship.
> 
> If you have a relative who is an addict, and they get upset because you don't give them money to buy drugs, should you then start giving them money so they wouldn't be upset?


hmmmm Comparing your relationship with your wife to a relationship to a relative that's a drug addict.....wow Your comparison is sooooo not the same thing.....Oh and looking at putting your wife first as a bad thing.....I think we found our problem!!!!!!!


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

losing_hope said:


> Putting other people first is the first step to a codependent relationship.
> 
> If you have a relative who is an addict, and they get upset because you don't give them money to buy drugs, should you then start giving them money so they wouldn't be upset?


Let me put it this way, then: do you worry more about offending the underwear lady or about upsetting your wife? To me, it's a no-brainer.

As for the drug addicted relative, they'd be cut out of my life far before they ever had a chance to ask me for money.

I'm selfish that way.


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## FrankKissel (Nov 14, 2011)

GreenEyes said:


> Ok what type of meds, because I started taking meds to make my H happy too, because he thought my snooping was due to my depression/anxiety...guess what even though the meds helped me not care, I still had the underlying suspicion because of certain little things he said/did.....and hmmm I was right...taking meds does not always equal a valid mental illness....


Well, until I see otherwise, I'm going to assume OP is truthful, his wife's doctors are competent and both know his wife and her situation better than you or I.

I wonder, though, if a wife came here seeking help in dealing with her husband's depression, would you say "obviously something about living with you is making him depressed"?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## losing_hope (Dec 1, 2011)

GreenEyes said:


> hmmmm Comparing your relationship with your wife to a relationship to a relative that's a drug addict.....wow Your comparison is sooooo not the same thing.....Oh and looking at putting your wife first as a bad thing.....I think we found our problem!!!!!!!


Are you saying that an addiction is not a disease?


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## losing_hope (Dec 1, 2011)

FrankKissel said:


> I wonder, though, if a wife came her seeking help in dealing with her husband's depression, would you say "obviously something about living with you is making him depressed"?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sounds pretty ludicrous, right?


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## GreenEyes (Jan 27, 2011)

FrankKissel said:


> Well, until I see otherwise, I'm going to assume OP is truthful, his wife's doctors are competent and both know his wife and her situation better than you or I.
> 
> *I wonder, though, if a wife came her seeking help in dealing with her husband's depression, would you say "obviously something about living with you is making him depressed"?*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, lol I am not saying what I am saying because he is a guy and she is a woman...you know you can walk into a doctor's office and say what you want to say, give them whatever symptoms you want, and they will give you _something_ for it....The first time I got on meds I wasn't even depressed or anxious, I said that to my doctor because my H insisted that I needed to be on something and he would leave me if I didn't because I was "crazy" going through his stuff...(yeah [/I]I[/I] was crazy)....Op is prolly telling the truth as he sees it, but none of us do, or ever will, know the whole story in its entirety I'm sure....


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## GreenEyes (Jan 27, 2011)

Angel5112 said:


> Do you not realize that snooping is the opposite of transparency? It's probably really easy for two people of your parent’s age to have transparency when you think about the fact that cell phones only become prevalent in the last 15 years. Also, what works for one couple doesn't work for every couple. He has already stated that asking to look at stuff was one thing but snooping was something entirely different. I agree. She is LYING to him and showing him that no matter what he does, she doesn't trust him. If you ask me that shows that she is the one who is untrustworthy...
> 
> I have complete transparency with my H. We both have all passwords, not because we asked for them, but because at one point in time he has logged on for me or I have logged on for him and we have good memories. Also, our phones are always logged onto both email and facebook, so if we ever wanted to look we could do it that way. The thing is, we don't. I don't snoop through his phone, he doesn't snoop through mine. We both play games on each other’s phones occasionally, but even when we are in there with free reign we still don't snoop.
> 
> It hurts when your SO doesn't trust you. I dated a guy like that once. No matter what I did, he was always jealous. I couldn't have guy friends or that meant I was cheating. I couldn't go hang out with my girlfriends or that meant I was cheating. If I was wearing a sexy outfit it meant I was cheating. If I wore makeup it meant I was cheating. Do you get it? If I breathed wrong he would have thought I was cheating because HE was insecure. That isn't my fault nor is it that OP's fault in his case. It's the jealous parties fault and frankly, it is their problem to deal with. There is only so much you can do to make your SO feel secure before you are like f-it. This is their thing and I am not going to enable them anymore.


It also hurts when your SO feels the need to keep his phone/emails private....there's always a flip side.


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## GreenEyes (Jan 27, 2011)

losing_hope said:


> Are you saying that an addiction is not a disease?


Who said OP's wife has a disease???? Because she's on meds and goes to a doctor???


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## GreenEyes (Jan 27, 2011)

Oh you are OP hahaha does she have a disease??? Like a named disease?


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## GreenEyes (Jan 27, 2011)

Angel5112 said:


> He isn't keeping them from her. He said if she asked, he would let her but that he honestly didn't think that would cure her problem.
> 
> She is snooping, taking things out of context, treating him like sh!t for hours before confronting him, and then not apologizing for acting that way. Sounds pretty childish to me.


Well more times than not there's a reason for it, and she's not here to tell us why sooo kinda hard to knock her for it when we don't know the ins and outs of their relationship...


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Angel5112 said:


> Do you not realize that snooping is the opposite of transparency? It's probably really easy for two people of your parent’s age to have transparency when you think about the fact that cell phones only become prevalent in the last 15 years. Also, what works for one couple doesn't work for every couple. He has already stated that asking to look at stuff was one thing but snooping was something entirely different. I agree. She is LYING to him and showing him that no matter what he does, she doesn't trust him. If you ask me that shows that she is the one who is untrustworthy...
> 
> I have complete transparency with my H. We both have all passwords, not because we asked for them, but because at one point in time he has logged on for me or I have logged on for him and we have good memories. Also, our phones are always logged onto both email and facebook, so if we ever wanted to look we could do it that way. The thing is, we don't. I don't snoop through his phone, he doesn't snoop through mine. We both play games on each other’s phones occasionally, but even when we are in there with free reign we still don't snoop.
> 
> It hurts when your SO doesn't trust you. I dated a guy like that once. No matter what I did, he was always jealous. I couldn't have guy friends or that meant I was cheating. I couldn't go hang out with my girlfriends or that meant I was cheating. If I was wearing a sexy outfit it meant I was cheating. If I wore makeup it meant I was cheating. Do you get it? If I breathed wrong he would have thought I was cheating because HE was insecure. That isn't my fault nor is it that OP's fault in his case. It's the jealous parties fault and frankly, it is their problem to deal with. There is only so much you can do to make your SO feel secure before you are like f-it. This is their thing and I am not going to enable them anymore.


So does having transparency and THEN looking through the phone/computer/emails work for you? Because then, it isn't lying and snooping, it's *trusting and verifying*.

Also, things you did while you were dating are quite different to the way you behave when you're married....ie, I have no use / need for opposite sex friends that aren't also friends with my H, and vice versa.


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## FrankKissel (Nov 14, 2011)

GreenEyes said:


> Op is prolly telling the truth as he sees it, but none of us do, or ever will, know the whole story in its entirety I'm sure....


And yet you know enough to blame him.
Your experience is your experience, and I respect that. But don't assume what you went through is the case for everyone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## losing_hope (Dec 1, 2011)

CandieGirl said:


> Also, things you did while you were dating are quite different to the way you behave when you're married....ie, I have no use / need for opposite sex friends that aren't also friends with my H, and vice versa.


I prefer to select my friends for how they are, not for what they have in their pants.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Angel5112 said:


> *You are expecting him to alienate work relationships because his wife is crazy jealous? That seems ridiculous to me.* You give her an inch and she will take a mile. She has no right to control his life or who he chooses to talk to. She also has no right to be jealous if he hasn’t given her reason to be. According to his post, he hasn’t.
> 
> Neither him nor the underwear lady did anything wrong. She let him know that she was bringing the underwear. OP, do you and this woman text on a regular basis, or is this an infrequent occurrence? I would bet the latter.


Then he should be prepared to live with instances such as this for the remainder of his life/marriage, whichever comes first.

Alienate, no...but draw the line an a professional relationship, at the very least. My husband doesn't get texts from colleagues or business associates that are about anything other than business. 

I'd start to feel funny if he got texts from a female on a personal level, and I'm not 'crazy jealous'. I just have boundaries.


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## losing_hope (Dec 1, 2011)

GreenEyes said:


> Oh you are OP hahaha does she have a disease??? Like a named disease?


I thought it was clear already, even if it wasn't named. Yes, the disease is cyclothymia. She's on buspirone and risperidone.

And as far as going to a doctor and getting pills, my wife did get anti depressants once when she went to a non-psychiatrist. Do you know how dangerous it is to give bipolar person antidepressants?


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

losing_hope said:


> I prefer to select my friends for how they are, not for what they have in their pants.


Sorry to say this, but with that kind of attitude, you're asking for these kinds of problems; good luck to you!


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## GreenEyes (Jan 27, 2011)

FrankKissel said:


> And yet you know enough to blame him.
> Your experience is your experience, and I respect that. But don't assume what you went through is the case for everyone.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm not blaming him...I was just playing it from the other side so that maybe he would understand that it may not just be his wife's problem....people on here are so touchy, aren't we all posting advice from our experiences?????


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## FrankKissel (Nov 14, 2011)

CandieGirl said:


> Then he should be prepared to live with instances such as this for the remainder of his life/marriage, whichever comes first.
> 
> Alienate, no...but draw the line an a professional relationship, at the very least. My husband doesn't get texts from colleagues or business associates that are about anything other than business.
> 
> I'd start to feel funny if he got texts from a female on a personal level, and I'm not 'crazy jealous'. I just have boundaries.


Ummm .... did you even read the nature of the text? That would make you "feel funny?" That's crossing a boundary?

If he's having inappropriate discussions with a female co-worker, that would be cause for concern. But that's not the case here.

A person shouldn't have to choose between an appropriate relationships with co-workers and a reasonable spouse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GreenEyes (Jan 27, 2011)

losing_hope said:


> I thought it was clear already, even if it wasn't named. Yes, the disease is cyclothymia. She's on buspirone and risperidone.
> 
> And as far as going to a doctor and getting pills, my wife did get anti depressants once when she went to a non-psychiatrist. Do you know how dangerous it is to give bipolar person antidepressants?


No it's not clear because you can get an Rx for anything anymore...

ok so if how she is acting is a symptom of her condition, which it is, she can't help it and she is seeking treatment for it....so the main focus here should be what can you do to help her and if you don't want to help her because you feel you shouldn't have to, then maybe you should cut ties...You stated that was your intention, advice for how you could deal, but somehow instead it's turned into calling your wife childish and ridiculous by everyone else...

And no I do not see her condition as being similar to a drug addict...


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## FrankKissel (Nov 14, 2011)

GreenEyes said:


> I'm not blaming him...I was just playing it from the other side so that maybe he would understand that it may not just be his wife's problem....people on here are so touchy, aren't we all posting advice from our experiences?????


So, when you said "there is some part of your personality that is causing an underlying suspicion" and "he should take a good look at himself" you weren't blaming him?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GreenEyes (Jan 27, 2011)

Nope because in my post I said that I am not saying anything bad about him, that maybe he's not even conscious of it...it was a suggestion, not blame....there is a difference....and the good look at himself part was in response to you and after he made that comment about not putting his wife first, because that's bogus....Oh and comparing his relationship with her to a drug addict....


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Angel5112 said:


> It's different for YOU. I still have friends of the opposite sex as does my H. He actually has more female friends than male friends, but if he never gives me a reason to be jealous of these woman then I never will be.
> 
> You call it whatever you want. I will still call it lying and snooping.


Yes it is different for ME. I've been burned before, by so called friends. Good for you if this type of thing works for you; more female friends than male? Good luck with that, Angel! Hope to never see you crying your eyes out on the CWI board!


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

FrankKissel said:


> Ummm .... did you even read the *nature of the text*? That would make you "feel funny?" That's crossing a boundary?
> 
> If he's having inappropriate discussions with a female co-worker, that would be cause for concern. But that's not the case here.
> 
> ...


Gah......I simply can't be bothered wasting time explaining this to you. BTW, you're a tad too literal...see bold.


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## losing_hope (Dec 1, 2011)

GreenEyes said:


> Nope because in my post I said that I am not saying anything bad about him, that maybe he's not even conscious of it...it was a suggestion, not blame....there is a difference....and the good look at himself part was in response to you and after he made that comment about not putting his wife first, because that's bogus....Oh and comparing his relationship with her to a drug addict....


For too long I have put everyone else ahead of myself, which is a huge mistake.

Also do you realize that many people suffering from addiction are actually bipolar, and they try to self medicate? Over half of people who are diagnosed bipolar will be addicts at some point as well.


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## losing_hope (Dec 1, 2011)

CandieGirl said:


> Gah......I simply can't be bothered wasting time explaining this to you. BTW, you're a tad too literal...see bold.


That's still much better than trying to read something that's not there.


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## losing_hope (Dec 1, 2011)

Angel5112 said:


> I would say it's turned into people blaming him for;
> 1. Having a female coworkers phone number
> 2. Talking about his personal life with female coworkers
> 3. Having some personality quirk that makes his wife feel like he's a liar and cheater
> ...


I especially love it when posters make assumptions, and then base their responses on that assumption. Which is exactly what my wife did as well.


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## GreenEyes (Jan 27, 2011)

I think there's a fair amount of people blaming both...


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## GreenEyes (Jan 27, 2011)

losing_hope said:


> For too long I have put everyone else ahead of myself, which is a huge mistake.
> 
> Also do you realize that many people suffering from addiction are actually bipolar, and they try to self medicate? Over half of people who are diagnosed bipolar will be addicts at some point as well.


Then get a divorce, geez you only want advice from people who tell you 100% what you want to hear....


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## GreenEyes (Jan 27, 2011)

Angel5112 said:


> He came here to vent his frustrations about his W...why wouldn't we be blaming her? Especially considering, according to what we've heard (which is all we can go by), she is being irrationally jealous.


And the symptoms of her *mental condition* are irrational jealousy and poor self-esteem, don't forget that


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

losing_hope said:


> That's still much better than trying to read something that's not there.


If you say so. You seem determined to do what you want to do, though, so unless you're prepared to stop triggering your wife, then live with the consequences.

Whether it's mental illness, raving jealousy, super low self esteem, doesn't matter, your choices are (on some level) hurting your wife. If you are OK with this, then there really isn't any issue.


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## FrankKissel (Nov 14, 2011)

Angel5112 said:


> How many times does the OP have to prove that he isn't cheating, especially when you consider that fact that he has never cheated? :scratchhead:


But there's the rub - you can't prove you're not cheating, especially to someone who's irrationally convinced you are. No amount of transparency will suffice. The accuser will either come to a realization that he/she was wrong, or the relationship ends.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## losing_hope (Dec 1, 2011)

CandieGirl said:


> If you say so. You seem determined to do what you want to do, though, so unless you're prepared to stop triggering your wife, then live with the consequences.
> 
> Whether it's mental illness, raving jealousy, super low self esteem, doesn't matter, your choices are (on some level) hurting your wife. If you are OK with this, then there really isn't any issue.


Did you read the part where I said that's the opposite of what the psychiatrist thinks I should do? Did you understand it? Or are you just determined to dig in your heels and stay with your original assumptions that you ignore anything that opposes them?


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## UCanTalk (Mar 17, 2009)

i empathise with your wife. Perhaps if i give my story it may help you understand where your wife is coming from. I've grappled with insecurities over my wife's imagined infidelity for a decade now. We've been married 25 years. Ive been i therapy for 3 years and I now realise that many of MY issues relate to being co-dependent. I have had trust issues from a young age dues to dysfunctional family dynamics.

That said, a relationship takes 2 to tango. In our marriage I have tended towards the love addict (emotionally needy and needing a lot of reassurance) while my wife is the the emotionally distant and independent type. We had this dance going on for 24 years which neither of us understood. then i read in a book on love addiction by Pia Mellody where she describes this common pairing. I get insecure, i need reassurance, my wife feels im smothering her so withdraws which is the worse thing to do for my insecurity. 

With therapy i have become much stronger, but i still have wobbles but I know can see other external triggers apart from her being distanced at times.

That said, a couple of years ago when she lost weight, started wearing G strings and shaving her pubes I went into a tail spin. I used key logging software, checked her panties for semen when we went through a lean period and came up with nothing. I feel guilty for "snooping" but then is there a place for complacency? I still wonder if she misbehaved and cant work out is that my irrational insecurity or would any man be a little suspicious? Ive often asked her about this and shes always denied any misbehaving, but than WS do just that - so you see she cant win. 

The more we communicate (that does not mean her pandering to my insecurity - i recognise i need to fix that myself which I am doing) the more reassured and secure I feel in our relationship.


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## GreenEyes (Jan 27, 2011)

losing_hope said:


> Did you read the part where I said that's the opposite of what the psychiatrist thinks I should do? Did you understand it? Or are you just determined to dig in your heels and stay with your original assumptions that you ignore anything that opposes them?


Do you always talk to people that have a different opinion in such a condescending manor??? If you talk to your wife that way I can see where her low self-esteem and suspicions come from, because been there done that...


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## GreenEyes (Jan 27, 2011)

Angel5112 said:


> The issue here isn't the ONE text message he got from a coworker that was in no way inappropriate. It is his wife, who feels a costant need to snoop and then become angry over little things that is the issue. Oh and her inability to apologize, all the while still blaming the OP for the problem that actually doesn't exist, that too is the issue.
> 
> I am having trouble understanding why that was the one part of the story everyone latched onto. Somehow his inability to cut off contact with this OW even though it is destroying his relationship...blah blah blah. Sounds a little melodramatic when you are talking about one text message. Doesn't it?


He said she has a mental condition....the symptoms of that condition are insecurities, low self-esteem, self-destructive behavior....so apparently if she has been diagnosed with this, that is the source of her insecurity and snooping....


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

CandieGirl said:


> If you say so. You seem determined to do what you want to do, though, so unless you're prepared to stop triggering your wife, then live with the consequences.
> 
> Whether it's mental illness, raving jealousy, super low self esteem, doesn't matter, your choices are (on some level) hurting your wife. If you are OK with this, then there really isn't any issue.


But is that true? Assuming the poster has been accurate and correct, it does not appear to matter what he does, his wife will accuse him of cheating. This is not a trigger, at least as I understand the term, becuase it is not a specific act that causes her reaction, it is her. Regardless of what he does, she will accuse him. If he stops this behavior, it will not stop her from accusing him, she will just find something else to "support" her accusation. If this is the case, is it reasonable to require him to "stop hurting his wife", when anything he does will hurt her?


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Angel5112 said:


> So because you were burned it is ALWAYS the mans fault and that means NO married couples can have friends of the opposite sex...That sounds like a fun relationship. To quote you "good luck with that!".
> 
> In your world it sounds like snooping is always justifiable, because there is no such thing as an overly jealous and insecure person. They are just "trusting and verifying". At what point does that become too much? How many times does the OP have to prove that he isn't cheating, especially when you consider that fact that he has never cheated? :scratchhead:


I'll explain: I never SAID that NO married couples can have friends of the opposite sex; but I think you'll find that many people on here (not just me) have issues with this type of thing.

Anyway, I'm sure you already know that, you're just intent on causing a lil sh!tstorm here, because I don't agree with everything you say.

And by the by, I don't need male friends to make my marriage fun...that's what my husband is for


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## losing_hope (Dec 1, 2011)

GreenEyes said:


> Do you always talk to people that have a different opinion in such a condescending manor??? If you talk to your wife that way I can see where her low self-esteem and suspicions come from, because been there done that...


You know just saying "I'm not a racist, but" doesn't absolve you from racism?


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## FrankKissel (Nov 14, 2011)

CandieGirl said:


> If you say so. You seem determined to do what you want to do, though, so unless you're prepared to stop triggering your wife, then live with the consequences.
> 
> Whether it's mental illness, raving jealousy, super low self esteem, doesn't matter, your choices are (on some level) hurting your wife. If you are OK with this, then there really isn't any issue.


Depriving himself of a normal life while pandering to her irrationality won't help anyone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Tall Average Guy said:


> But is that true? Assuming the poster has been accurate and correct, *it does not appear to matter what he does, his wife will accuse him of cheating*. This is not a trigger, at least as I understand the term, becuase it is not a specific act that causes her reaction, it is her. Regardless of what he does, she will accuse him. If he stops this behavior, it will not stop her from accusing him, she will just find something else to "support" her accusation. If this is the case, is it reasonable to require him to "stop hurting his wife", *when anything he does will hurt her*?


I guess it can be dissected to the point of no return, but if this is the case, then the OP might want to reconsider the choice to stay married to her.


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## GreenEyes (Jan 27, 2011)

losing_hope said:


> You know just saying "I'm not a racist, but" doesn't absolve you from racism?


What??!!!??


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

FrankKissel said:


> Depriving himself of a normal life while pandering to her irrationality won't help anyone.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Then perhaps OP should consider divorcing, if it's that bad.


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## GreenEyes (Jan 27, 2011)

CandieGirl said:


> I guess it can be dissected to the point of no return, but if this is the case, then the OP might want to reconsider the choice to stay married to her.


Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

GreenEyes said:


> What??!!!??


You know, when someone says something derogatory about another race then immediately follows up with "but I'm not a racist"...


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## GreenEyes (Jan 27, 2011)

CandieGirl said:


> You know, when someone says something derogatory about another race then immediately follows up with "but I'm not a racist"...


No I know that, but I don't get what he's saying here, if he's implying that I'm speaking condescendingly as well or what....


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

CandieGirl said:


> I guess it can be dissected to the point of no return, but if this is the case, then the OP might want to reconsider the choice to stay married to her.


I don't disagree. In this case, because she is seeking treatment, I would definitely wait it out to see her progress and do what I could for her. Ultimately, they may not work together.

I guess my issue or question was, if it was truly on her and not due to the specific actions he took, then what is his responsibility to avoid these triggers. My initial reaction would be to try and avoid obvious ones, but at some point, there is nothing you can do. Also, that seems contrary to what the OP is saying that her therapist advised.


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## FrankKissel (Nov 14, 2011)

GreenEyes said:


> He said she has a mental condition....the symptoms of that condition are insecurities, low self-esteem, self-destructive behavior....so apparently if she has been diagnosed with this, that is the source of her insecurity and snooping....


Exactly!
Which is why the advice from yourself and others that he needs to change (i.e. it's his personality, he shouldn't have a female co-worker's cell, he should tolerate snooping, etc.) is so flabbergasting.
He's not the one with the problem. She is.
Should he support her completely if she is working to get better? Absolutely.
But he need not blame himself, or compromise himself, to appease her unreasonable behaviors. I think we all know that appeasement of bad behavior never ends well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GreenEyes (Jan 27, 2011)

FrankKissel said:


> Exactly!
> Which is why the advice from yourself and others that he needs to change (i.e. it's his personality, he shouldn't have a female co-worker's cell, he should tolerate snooping, etc.) is so flabbergasting.
> He's not the one with the problem. She is.
> Should he support her completely if she is working to get better? Absolutely.
> ...


You got it buddy, it changed a little when he told me she had an _identified_ mental condition, before he said she was on meds and "may have a mental condition" which is altogether totally different...

And you're right he isn't the one with the problem, she is, but it's a problem that she cannot help, I'm sure if she could choose whether or not to have this mental condition she would choose not to...but the OP doesn't come off as being a nice, supportive H either the more he "talks"


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## FrankKissel (Nov 14, 2011)

CandieGirl said:


> Then perhaps OP should consider divorcing, if it's that bad.


Maybe.
But I'm a "sickness or in health" kind of guy, so if she shows sincere desire and effort to get better, he has an obligation to stand by her. But if she won't do the heavy lifting to get better, then he should divorce her. Better that than live with someone who insists you are untrustworthy and a cheater.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

losing_hope said:


> Did you read the part where I said that's the opposite of what the psychiatrist thinks I should do? Did you understand it? Or are you just determined to dig in your heels and stay with your original assumptions that you ignore anything that opposes them?


This isn't about me...if you are unwilling to bend on the suject of the texting coworker, either you live with the consequences, or you get divorced.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Angel5112 said:


> No you didn't say that. You said "Also, things you did while you were dating are quite different to the way you behave when you're married....ie, I have no use / need for opposite sex friends that aren't also friends with my H, and vice versa.” *Implying* that married couples shouldn’t have friends of the opposite sex because that is what you require in your marriage.
> 
> Good for you! I don’t NEED male friends either, as I am sure my H doesn't need female friends, but I would still be pretty pissed if my H told me I couldn’t have them if I have given him no reason to be controlling or jealous. It's called being irrational.
> 
> ...


The same thing that gives YOU the right or reason to say all the things that you're saying. It's an opinion, nothing more, nothing less.

No one, myself included, is holding a gun to the OP's head, telling him he has to do this or that, but he did come here for suggestions, presumably...That was my suggestion, to cut out the female friend...I thought it might help. Who knows how I'd react with a bi-polar husband who acted like a jealous freak? I'd probably start by doing whatever I could to make him feel secure...if nothing worked beyond that? I don't know!


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

CandieGirl said:


> This isn't about me...if you are unwilling to bend on the suject of the texting coworker, either you live with the consequences, or you get divorced.


That only works if texting a female coworker is the real issue. As noted, however, it is not - her mental condition or illness is the issue (as I am not a doctor and do not play one on TV, I don't know what to properly call it). If he quits this, she will just find something else to support her accusation.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Angel5112 said:


> Your entire suggestion was laced with blame and contempt. That was my problem. He came here for advice and suggestions on how to deal with his wife’s mental illness not be attacked because you think he is triggering her. Saying, don’t talk to females, isn’t a suggestion on how to deal with her jealous tendencies. Just like Frank said,
> 
> I think you are projecting your own experience onto the OP. Telling him to get over it would honestly have been a better suggestion because at least it would have been an actual answer to the question he asked.
> 
> Who is to even say that he is friends with this woman? A work friend and a friend are two different things. If you work in a team oriented environment you have to be friendly at work or you most likely won't advance. I actually just interviewed for a new position and I was asked "how do you work in a team environment and how do you get along with your teammates". I, like I stated earlier, have all of my coworkers’ cell numbers and wouldn't really consider them friends, yet I have received texts from them that weren't work/business related. One of them is a man. Does that give my H the right to freak out?


Laced with blame and contempt? Get real! I actually went back and reread my replies, just to make sure I'd said nothing out of line, and I didn't. Why you're choosing to take such offense to my beliefs is beyond me; but that's your choice.

You too, are projecting your own experiences here; I think that's the whole point of a board like this, to put your problem out there, and get a selection of varied opinions on the topic.

And we're completely off topic, by the by, since you seem so intent on bashing me and dissecting everything I say, even to the point of criticizing my relationship. Why don't you get back to the OP instead of slinging mud my way every post? I don't want to hear another word back from you even mentioning me, my marriage, or my beliefs; the entire thread has been derailed to the point of stupidity.

To the OP - I hope you find some help on these boards and I personally apologize for hijacking the thread or for insulting you in any way.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Tall Average Guy said:


> That only works if texting a female coworker is the real issue. As noted, however, it is not - her mental condition or illness is the issue (as I am not a doctor and do not play one on TV, I don't know what to properly call it). If he quits this, she will just find something else to support her accusation.


You're probably right; it was just a suggestion though. In his shoes, I think I'd be trying just about anything. And since the whole original post was about a text...


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## Itsacommitment (Jan 30, 2012)

LosingHope... I've just been reading what everyone else is saying. After learning more about whats going on with you and your wife, I'm coming back to what you originally said you wanted; To vent, and suggestions on how to cope. 

I am a very loyal person, and I do believe in the vows I took with my husband; In sickness and in health. I'm not against divorce though, if a person is completely unwilling to try. Quitting, infidelity and abuse are my end-alls. 

It seems that she is not quitting. Do you agree? You said that she recognizes she has a problem. She has a confirmed diagnosis which causes her behaviors. She is seeking help with you. That's not quitting. You seem like you know that you want to do and how you want to handle it. You are just having a hard time coping. This is how I suggest coping; Keep reminding yourself that she is not giving up. Try to admire her for continuing to seek help. Seek reassurance from her that she is not giving up in learning to control and manage her illness. Remind her that you love her, and you are not going to hurt her. (It may not change her behavior, but oddly enough reassuring your spouse can make you feel better too) Remember to take care of yourself as well. Remember what your rights and boundaries are (despite her illness) and compliment yourself. Pat yourself on the back for sticking with the woman you love while going through a difficult time. Allow yourself to be frustrated and dont view that as weakness in yourself. 

I struggle with various issues as I was severely sexually and violently abused for much of my childhood. My husband has certainly has his share of frustrations while we've been dealing with my recovery and flashbacks etc... Although I sympathize with mental illness and struggles, from my own experience, I DO know that even in illness we have the ability to grow and learn and get better. Despite her illness, she still has the responsibility as your wife to get help and make progress. It may not be fast, she wont be perfect, but she has the ability to make progress. Does she believe this about herself?? Perhaps telling her that YOU believe she can get better, will help the belief in herself. That kind of empowerment can REALLY make a difference in people taking control of their life, illness and all. 

Best of luck to both of you.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

CandieGirl said:


> You're probably right; it was just a suggestion though. In his shoes, I think I'd be trying just about anything. And since the whole original post was about a text...


Which is a very good point. As I thought about this over night, it does make sense to avoid the real big issues. Texting another woman is a big issue with a fair number of people, so stopping probably should not be unreasonable. The OP should just realize that while it will help with trust, it will not make the problem go away.


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## GreenEyes (Jan 27, 2011)

Yay, everyone's happy again!! ...back to business


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## losing_hope (Dec 1, 2011)

Today at counseling I let her go through my phone for any offensive messages. She had hard time finding any. But instead of thinking that maybe there just aren't any, she said that she couldn't find them because me and the counselor were both supposedly ganging up on her. Also, she said that it was hard going through the messages since there were so many from her (her meaning my wife). 

So first, there is the anger. Then after that, within a few hours, comes depression. And she said she's been thinking of suicide. 

Again, it's just an unbelievably huge emotional stress for me. And I feel guilty about it, due to the emotional pain my wife's in.


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## Itsacommitment (Jan 30, 2012)

This may be too personal of a question, but you seem to be fine with opening up to us. So what is your wife's Doctor's plan of action? What is the treatment plan? How does he/she propose to handle this? She is very disturbed and now contemplating suicide. There must be some time of treatment plan in place. If there is not, perhaps you should consider finding a different doctor?


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## losing_hope (Dec 1, 2011)

Waiting for the first one to say that I deleted any offending messages...


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Is there any way you can put your phone use on hold for awhile, to see if that is really what winds your wife up? I realize she's mentally ill, but it seems to always go back to the phone/messages...


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## losing_hope (Dec 1, 2011)

Itsacommitment said:


> This may be too personal of a question, but you seem to be fine with opening up to us. So what is your wife's Doctor's plan of action? What is the treatment plan? How does he/she propose to handle this? She is very disturbed and now contemplating suicide. There must be some time of treatment plan in place. If there is not, perhaps you should consider finding a different doctor?


Well, like I said, it goes in cycles. Hence the name, cyclothymia. 

I think there have been longer periods of "normal", but now when the bad mood strikes, it seems more erratic.

The therapy is mostly trying to manage the anger and anxiety with the medication first, and then try to find more appropriate ways of coping with the emotions through CBT. 

She has just started taking more of the risperidone, which the doctor prescribed specifically for anger. I'm hoping it helps in long term. It's always a bit touch and go with medication like these.

Finding another psychiatrist in this area is not easy. And my wife has said before that she really likes the current one anyway. I think those are two compelling reasons to stick with him, even if sometimes I get frustrated because he's treating her long term, but I'm looking for quick fixes.


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## losing_hope (Dec 1, 2011)

CandieGirl said:


> Is there any way you can put your phone use on hold for awhile, to see if that is really what winds your wife up? I realize she's mentally ill, but it seems to always go back to the phone/messages...


It hasn't always been about that. There have been other things in the past as well, several. Usually, she'll feel jealous towards my female coworkers. But not necessarily. 

In the past, I have cut off contact with them when she got jealous. But all it led to is her shifting her jealousy to somewhere else, and me feeling resentment towards her. And, quite frankly, acting towards my coworkers in ways that I'm not proud of.


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## Itsacommitment (Jan 30, 2012)

If he has a plan and is working hard for the two of you, no need to find another one. I was just making sure as I personally have ZERO patience for lazy doctors or doctors who only manage and have no long term plan. I'm glad to hear he is treating her long term wise and not just constant temporary fixes. 

Its strange how our mind works. When we have bigger more complicated issues going on, we still tend to have one thing we target. In her case, its your phone messages. When I was dealing more heavily with PTSD due to prolonged childhood sexual and violent abuse, my butt was something my mind targeted. Silly right? I have no problem with my butt, its a very nice butt actually. But during the worst of times, the sight of my own butt would throw me into a fit of anger/tears/depression/self hatred. Its very surreal as my problem actually had nothing to do with my butt. I have no idea why our minds work like this, but they do. 

Obviously your wife's paranoia is very strong right now. Are you still looking for something out of this forum? Everything is being done that needs to be done for your wife's sake. You dont want to leave her. You can only do so much to cope. So what else are you looking for?


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## losing_hope (Dec 1, 2011)

When my wife feels angry, she tries to find external reasons for her anger. And then she tries to eliminate the external causes. But since the anger comes from her emotions, and not from external things, it will just move on to the next subject.


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## losing_hope (Dec 1, 2011)

Itsacommitment said:


> So what else are you looking for?


That is an excellent question. 

I think I'm still just looking to vent. I don't necessarily need to be told that I'm right, or that I'm wrong. But I do appreciate being heard, that's the most helpful thing right now for me. 

Plus I did like your story. I'm just so amazed how something that we think is us can still trick us.


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## Itsacommitment (Jan 30, 2012)

Okay then  That fine! It does help to just talk sometimes. Its ridiculous how our minds can trick us. Even how we talk about our minds like they are a 3rd person...its actually just us lol But anyway...Maybe you could share with us some good things about your wife? Are there moments that the two of you enjoy still?


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## losing_hope (Dec 1, 2011)

Itsacommitment said:


> Okay then  That fine! It does help to just talk sometimes. Its ridiculous how our minds can trick us. Even how we talk about our minds like they are a 3rd person...its actually just us lol But anyway...Maybe you could share with us some good things about your wife? Are there moments that the two of you enjoy still?


Now that's an excellent idea! And even the mere thought actually got me teary eyed. No kidding! Hold on, let me just wipe my eyes so I can see the monitor.

So, first of all she really loves animals, and she even volunteers at an dog rescue. I love dogs myself, so it's great. We have a great little pug who is blind, but still a champ, and he was a rescue too.

Also, we've had some good moments. Just as recently as last Saturday we took a short road trip, and had a good time. Our vacations are always great, I plan the vacation every other year, and she does every other year, and she does an excellent job planning.

Most of the week I cook, but every Friday night we have a routine which involves takeout and usually some sort of comedy. Which we both do look forward to, especially after the whole work week...


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## Itsacommitment (Jan 30, 2012)

That all sounds wonderful  Sometimes remembering why you love your spouse and focusing on the little things that are still good is the best way to cope with a difficult time. 

My husband and I have been through some rough times. As I mentioned I struggle with PTSD and for awhile it was very severe. He admittedly turned into a total JERK for awhile as he did not know how to cope with what was happening. I also have a chronic illness. But we both work hard on our relationship and during this difficult time, we made a point to set aside afternoons where we laid down all of our issues and just enjoyed something with each other. We got through it and have the most amazing relationship. 

If you two continue to act out of love, seek help and remember why you love each other, you can make it  And when you get through this difficult time, you'll be so secure in your marriage and feel even closer to each other.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Myself personally I don`t see a problem with his wife looking at his phone .

The problem is the irrational response she had to a fairly innocent text, yeah I would have questioned the underwear comment but wouldn`t have went off on him myself .

However I don`t understand all the talk about "snooping".

By definition "snooping" is prying into the affairs of "others".

I have no affairs my wife isn`t welcome to know.
She can "snoop" all she likes.

I`m just so glad I don`t have such trivial hang-ups in my marriage.


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## Itsacommitment (Jan 30, 2012)

lol Trivial...you obviously didnt read all of the OP posts about his wifes illness and the paranoia and the troubles it causes in their marriage. Theres a difference between not hiding anything from each other, and having a spouse with such strong paranoia that she constantly thinks you are cheating/hiding/conspiring against her etc....


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## FrankKissel (Nov 14, 2011)

tacoma said:


> Myself personally I don`t see a problem with his wife looking at his phone .
> 
> The problem is the irrational response she had to a fairly innocent text, yeah I would have questioned the underwear comment but wouldn`t have went off on him myself .
> 
> ...


1. First and foremost, by all means do what works best for you and your wife. If snooping works, then snoop. 

2. By definition, snooping also is something done without permission. If you've told your wife she's free to examine your phone at her discretion, then she's not snooping. 

3. Lots of people don't consider their right to privacy a "trivial hangup." Certainly the law doesn't consider snooping a trivial hangup. Could you be more condescending toward the views of others?

4. Snooping, particularly in the absence of any red flags, ultimately is controlling behavior. Why snoop on a spouse's communications with others if not to control, either directly (through subsequent confrontation) or indirectly (via prior restraint), the nature of those interactions.

Again, everyone should do what's consensually agreed upon as best for their relationships, but please don't try to demean those with whom you disagree on this particular issue.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FrankKissel (Nov 14, 2011)

Angel5112 said:


> By the way, you are a good man for sticking with your wife through all of this. I hope her doctors find something that works for her because you two deserve to be happy after everything you have had to go through.


Agreed. Best wishes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

FrankKissel said:


> Again, everyone should do what's consensually agreed upon as best for their relationships, but please don't try to demean those with whom you disagree on this particular issue.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh Frank get over yourself.

Your condescending holier than thou attitude is...demeaning to me.

:rofl:


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## losing_hope (Dec 1, 2011)

Dammit... My therapist had to cancel the appointment today, just when I would have needed it. But at least my wife is starting to feel better as of some time today, so hopefully it'll be smooth sailing for a few days at least, before the next episode...


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## losing_hope (Dec 1, 2011)

Uptown was replying to me in another thread, but I didn't want to hijack that one for my issues... Here's the original post:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...no-patience-left-each-other-2.html#post588330



Uptown said:


> LH, I strongly urge you to see your own clinical psychologist -- for a visit or two on your own -- to obtain a candid professional opinion. Relying on your W's therapist for advice during the marriage is as foolish as relying on her attorney for advice during a divorce. _Her therapist is not your friend._ He is bound by professional ethics to protect his sick client (which will be her, even if you attend some of the sessions).


Oh trust me, between the two of us, we've seen so many therapists, psychiatrists and whatnot, both individually and together. I realized early on that whether she has any disease or not, I need help too. Either in coping with her disease, or at the very least coping with myself. 

About a year ago, I was in or at depression. I feel that today, I am in much better spirits, and while my wife's issues are not yet resolved, I handle the situation much better. I am continuing to see my own therapist though.



> I mention this because therapists are loath to tell a high functioning BPDer the name of her disorder.


This is interesting... But then, why would a third party therapist/psychiatrist tell me what the disease is based completely on second-hand information? And even if they did, I would wonder that myself: "How can they make a decision based on my biased side of the story?" Maybe it's also my personal low self esteem that's behind it. On some level I'm still blaming myself for it.

Although I do feel that I can not trust my wife completely what she tells me what her psychiatrist tells her. So there's that as well. Since a lot of times she hears what she wants to hear.



> Moreover, the event-triggered anger you describe in your threads (where the mood change occurs in seconds) is extremely rare for bipolar and cyclothymia sufferers. Only a tiny fraction of the cyclothymia sufferers cycle several times an hour. My foster-son, for example, is one of those rare individuals but even he is only able to do it when he is slipping from hypermania into psychosis.


No, she doesn't cycle back and forth several times in an hour. But I can often times, at least in hindsight, see a trigger, then see her mood shift. Then she will stay angry for a few hours or even days, after which (sometimes again with a trigger), her mood will improve. First she will seem happy, for a bit, but then she will go into depression, again for a few hours or days. The whole cycle from start to finish takes maybe 2-5 days. But I'm starting to see the pattern now.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

losing_hope said:


> Why would a third party therapist/psychiatrist tell me what the disease is based completely on second-hand information? And even if they did, I would wonder that myself: "How can they make a decision based on my biased side of the story?"


Of course, it would be impossible for a psychologist to render a formal diagnosis without seeing her. I therefore did not say you could obtain an actual diagnosis from your own therapist. Rather, I said that is your best chance of obtaining a "candid professional opinion." That is, your therapist may be willing to say "it sounds like you may be dealing with...." But, then, he may not be willing to give you his opinion.

Yet, given your near-zero chance of obtaining a BPD diagnosis from your W's therapist -- even when your W satisfies 100% of the diagnostic criteria -- I believe your best chance of obtaining a candid professional opinion is to consult with your own therapist.


> I can not trust my wife completely what she tells me what her psychiatrist tells her.


Nor can you trust what your W is telling her psychiatrist. The main reason that BPD is so difficult to diagnose is NOT because BPD traits are difficult to recognize. Rather, it is because it is so easy for a high functioning BPDer to completely hide those traits during the 50-minute therapy sessions held once a week. This is so because BPDers generally are excellent actors. Because they have a fragile sense of who they are, they typically have spent their entire lives figuring out how they are expected to behave and then acting in that manner. 

Moreover, if a therapist finally is able to catch on to what a BPDer is doing, she likely will immediately switch to another therapist or stop therapy altogether. Further, even when a therapist recognizes that a HF BPDer has this disorder, there is little chance he will tell her, much less tell the spouse -- for the several reasons I mentioned.


> I can often times, at least in hindsight, see a trigger, then see her mood shift. Then she will stay angry for a few hours or even days, after which (sometimes again with a trigger), her mood will improve.


As I said earlier, bipolar (e.g., cyclothemic) mood changes are caused by changes in body chemistry. In contrast, BPD mood changes are triggered, usually in seconds, by some minor comment or action you make. It therefore often is very difficult, a week later, to recall what she had been so upset about. Although the mood change may last several days, the temper tantrum phase typically lasts only several hours.


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## losing_hope (Dec 1, 2011)

Uptown said:


> Of course, it would be impossible for a psychologist to render a formal diagnosis without seeing her. I therefore did not say you could obtain an actual diagnosis from your own therapist. Rather, I said that is your best chance of obtaining a "candid professional opinion." That is, your therapist may be willing to say "it sounds like you may be dealing with...." But, then, he may not be willing to give you his opinion.


I remember my therapist saying to me that there is an unwritten rule among therapists not to question another therapist's diagnosis. And for some reason I had suspected something like that...



> Yet, given your near-zero chance of obtaining a BPD diagnosis from your W's therapist -- even when your W satisfies 100% of the diagnostic criteria -- I believe your best chance of obtaining a candid professional opinion is to consult with your own therapist.Nor can you trust what your W is telling her psychiatrist. The main reason that BPD is so difficult to diagnose is NOT because BPD traits are difficult to recognize. Rather, it is because it is so easy for a high functioning BPDer to completely hide those traits during the 50-minute therapy sessions held once a week. This is so because BPDers generally are excellent actors. Because they have a fragile sense of who they are, they typically have spent their entire lives figuring out how they are expected to behave and then acting in that manner.


I wonder if this is part of the reason why her psychiatrist wanted to see us together. I know the reason was to see how we act and react together, but maybe he's thinking of that possibility as well.

It's funny though this talk about BPD, since I had thought of that long before things got very bad. But since I have no training in psychiatry, I dismissed my thoughts.

One of the latest things though that I heard from my wife's sessions was that the doctor thinks that her problems could be due to her not being able to grieve for the loss of her father. A few years back she lost her father suddenly, and I don't think she's ever really dealt with it. 

See, how I see it as a layman is that all of these are plausible explanations. But of course, since I'm the one bearing the brunt of it, often times I feel that I don't care what the name of the disease is, but I just want it to stop.

That's when she's feeling bad. Then, like right now, when she's feeling good, I start feeling that maybe I overreacted, and it's really nothing.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

losing_hope said:


> It's funny though this talk about BPD, since I had thought of that long before things got very bad.


LH, when you feel up to it, I suggest you read _Stop Walking on Eggshells._ I believe that, like me, you will find it reads like a biography of your W's life -- if she really does have strong BPD traits. Another telling sign -- for me at least -- was the feeling that I was living with a woman who was "half way" to having a multiple personality disorder.


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