# New Guy



## labrador22 (Jun 14, 2019)

Longtime reader of these forums. Not sure if this is the right place for this - will likely repost in the correct forum when I receive permission to do so.

Wife and I are both 31, married 6 years, together for almost 10. No kids - but that's another issue all in of itself. Both educated with great jobs, stable life - honestly we've been very blessed in many ways.

We were extremely close up until about 2018 - in the years prior of dating/engaged/married we were best friends, did everything together, built a home, etc. We've had our fights/disagreements like everyone else, but we've always worked through them. 

The past year or so my wife has started to go out more and more. Her brother is in a band - going to concerts has always been her thing. In the past we would go do these things together, but in 2017 one of our kids (dogs) had a major health problem and almost died. Ever since then my wife doesn't want them to be left alone at night - so since I don't altogether care for the bar/music scene nearly as much as she does I've been staying at home with the dogs.

The going out occasionally has progressed into going out constantly - there have been a few months this year where it's been every single Saturday night - sometimes she's gone on Friday and Saturday nights. I've been fine with it - but the sometimes very late nights (1 or 2 in the morning) do get old - especially since I wait up for her. In the beginning she was really good about checking in with me throughout the night via text or even sometimes a phone call (on her own) - over time it's turned into I'm annoying her if I send her a text while she's out. Unless she goes to a concert with her Mom driving she has 2-3 beers tops - we're big on being smart and safe in that aspect. If she's not driving - she gets a bit out there. 

Over the same time period she's gotten more and more addicted to her phone. Used to be she was an open book and would share information without me asking - telling me about co-worker drama, her friends, etc - but now its very secretive. Never has the phone screen turned where I can see, constantly on Facebook messenger, instagram, or text. It got to the point where she takes her phone with her every where she goes - bathroom, laundry room, to bathe (and hides it). All these behaviors started setting off red flags in my mind and I had a gut feeling - but I never acted on it for a long time. She went a long time with no friends and has made two close friends with co-workers who she goes to a lot of these concerts with now. One is divorced and the other is much younger than us and single. I tried to chalk my feelings up to just being jealous that she had made new friends (I do not have any close friends - I spend my time hunting, fishing, doing guy stuff with her brother or Dad or an old college friend who comes up once or twice a year to visit). 

About a month and a half ago my gut feelings/insecurities got the best of me. She went to a show with her Mom and came home pretty drunk. It was wrong, horrible, and downright pitiful - but when she passed out I took her phone outside. I found some very erotic nudes she had taken. Pictures I've never seen and had zero clue she was the type to take anymore. Early in our relationship she would send me stuff - but she gained some weight and the pictures stopped.

I need to preface this with: My wife has SEVERE body image issues. To the point where she needs professional help. It has always been that way since day one of knowing her. She battled eating disorders for a long time (passed that now), but she still has body dysmorphia. She's looking great now - I think she's the most beautiful woman in the world regardless of her weight - but she's lost a lot over the past two years of dieting and I would think she's beginning to feel a little better about herself. 

Anyways - I found nothing other than the nudes on her phone. I was hurt and my gut told me those were being sent to someone. Rather than wait it out like I should have - I confronted her immediately. It obviously turned into a huge fight with her claiming that she takes those pictures for herself and only herself on days she's feeling good about the way she looks to help her through the bad days. Maybe a woman with similar experience can chime in and validate that - I don't understand it.

The fight did lead to some breakthrough communication on several major issues. One of the main ones being our differences in sex drives and the lack of frequency. I have an extremely high sex drive - she does not and never has (mainly from body issues and and something horrible that happened to her when she was 16). We worked out compromise that's acceptable to both of us (back to where we were years ago when we first started dating - and it has been great). The other issue we worked out was the need to go out - that it's not fair for me to sit at home alone every weekend night and that I do want/need to get out and socialize some - and that also she does need to be able to go out and have her own time to do the things she enjoys. Perfectly fine solution.

Things got and have been much better. However the phone possessiveness is still ongoing and I've still got that gut feeling. Last night for example - every time I would walk by she'd either turn her screen away or put her phone down. I called her out on this which of course led to another argument. I was not trying to look at her phone - I assume she's talking to her friend from work who is going through a break-up, but it's just kind of a red flag to me.

That's one side of the coin. I'm man enough to admit I've got some deep rooted problems with abandonment and trust. Everything from being molested as a child (not by a family member), watching my parents marriage problems blow up all the time, to being cheated on (with my best friend at the time) by someone who I was engaged to in my late teens (young and stupid). She was literally crazy and I think now resides in a mental institution, but the feeling of getting cheated on and totally missing it has stuck with me. That messed me up and I've never really been able to let it go. I'm not a bad looking guy, I've got a great job, respected by peers, and never had any problems in the bedroom with anyone - including my wife. However, I still feel like I'm not good enough - quite insecure about it actually.

So I'm at a crossroads - am I reading way too far into things and projecting my feelings towards myself into this situation - or is this truly a gut instinct that I should listen to. She's never given me any reason to doubt her before. 

I appreciate the honest feedback.

TLDR:Wife is super possessive of her phone, on it all the time, I invaded her privacy and took her phone one night and found nudes (doesn't send any to me) but nothing else, I've got my own trust/abandonment issues - am I projecting my own insecurities or is my gut right?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Welcome to TAM. This Standard Evidence Thread might be of help to you. https://talkaboutmarriage.com/copin...ard-evidence-post.html?highlight=Weightlifter

It seems possible your wife might be cheating on you so I'm moving your thread to Coping With Infidelity.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

labrador22 said:


> Over the same time period she's gotten more and more addicted to her phone. Used to be she was an open book and would share information without me asking - telling me about co-worker drama, her friends, etc - but now its very secretive. Never has the phone screen turned where I can see, constantly on Facebook messenger, instagram, or text. It got to the point where she takes her phone with her every where she goes - bathroom, laundry room, to bathe (and hides it). All these behaviors started setting off red flags in my mind and I had a gut feeling - but I never acted on it for a long time. She went a long time with no friends and has made two close friends with co-workers who she goes to a lot of these concerts with now. One is divorced and the other is much younger than us and single. I tried to chalk my feelings up to just being jealous that she had made new friends (I do not have any close friends - I spend my time hunting, fishing, doing guy stuff with her brother or Dad or an old college friend who comes up once or twice a year to visit).
> 
> Probably found a boyfriend.
> 
> ...


Staying out, nudes on the phone and you're affraid of invading her privacy? Really?

Start digging or wallow (which is what you're doing)

You should wake up to reality


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

She's cheating. Sorry this happened to you.


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## mickybill (Nov 29, 2016)

Seems like there are a few things that point to Cheatertown. Not sure if she is there yet but wouldn't be surprised.

RED FLAGS!
1. Out all the time until 2am with single friends. Might not be looking for dudes but probably not shooing them away...
2. Coming home drunk from #1 Not good for a grown up married woman.
3. Hiding the phone - my ex wife became attached to her phone like crazy out of the blue. I snooped and found dozens of 2 and 3 hour long conversations with a guy named Paul.
4. Nudes on her phone. Maybe women with body issues do that, but so do women in affairs. If you don't mind the question, is she looking sexy or clinical? She was pretty quick with the explanation so it's either true or practiced.

Whe you are out together do the old "Can I use your phone, I forgot mine at home or it's out of juice. Her response will tell you a lot.

Good luck - I hope she is not cheating, but you are here for a reason.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

So sorry to read this, and that your wife is cheating on you, as you will soon confirm.

It is absurd that you don’t go out with your wife to bars because of your dogs. You said you both make good money. So hire a pet sitter every Saturday night if you are not willing to leave them alone. What do they do while you are at work? Or if you two go out to dinner? Or do you never do any dates etc because of your pets?

Put a VAR in her car. You will know who her AP (affair partner) is within a week.


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## OutofRetirement (Nov 27, 2017)

I've never seen anyone posting about hiding/guarding the phone and not easily with guidance from posters here quickly find out that the secret phoner is also a cheater. Hiding the phone is a symptom of cheating like breathing is a symptom of being alive.

Yeah, she's cheating. You will find evidence in the next week or so.

Get a private investigator to follow her the next time she comes out and you will get pictures and videos and everything.

What does her Mom feel about driving so her "stable," "educated," "married," 31-year-old daughter can go to "concerts" and get really drunk? Does her Mom drive her co-worker friends also? I can't imagine at this point in my life asking my Mom or Dad or anyone, really, to drive me so I can get drunk. Uber? Car service? Taxi? Why Mom?

Have you considered asking your brother-in-law, who very likely knows the truth, or her Mom, about what they think about their sister's/daughter's drunkenness with co-worker friends while you watch "the kids"?
-
The kids can't be alone at night - who watches the kids during the day?

Do the fertility issues coincide with her secretiveness?


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

I'm the last one around here to suspect cheating, but I suspect cheating.

Nobody, and I mean nobody is above cheating, so nobody should be trusted so implicitly. Given the right circumstances, people will cheat for whatever reason, especially when there are vulnerabilities already present. And your wife had 2 reasons/vulnerabilities. One being her extremely poor body image. Another man admiring/wanting her is very intoxicating. Her defenses are weak, so it's easy to make sure she's drinking so she can always give herself the lame excuse that she was drunk.

The second being that she was a single woman on the weekends.....every weekend. There existed some piece of paper that her name along with some guy's name and the words "Certificate of Marriage" written across the top in fancy letters, but what did it mean if he was nowhere around when it mattered? Hypothetical scenario: Do you know how many times she told somebody that was hitting on her "I'm married." All he had to say was "Yeah, but he's not here." After a while, she didn't bother to say it anymore.

You had no way of knowing, so just for future reference, if you have a wife or girlfriend relationship, you have to protect it. Please don't think for one inkling that I'm blaming you or trying to make you feel bad because I'm not. Cheating is entirely on her. I'm just pointing out her vulnerabilities because protection is a woman's primal need. That doesn't mean you were to prevent her from doing whatever she wanted or needed to do. It means you were supposed to be by her side because your presence represents security and protection in most circumstances. Most weekends should be yours to spend together doing whatever you both decide to do. She didn't have you there. Her protection was protecting the dog. Just know this as a building tool for your next relationship.

Aside from that......



labrador22 said:


> The fight did lead to some breakthrough communication on several major issues. One of the main ones being our differences in sex drives and the lack of frequency. I have an extremely high sex drive - she does not and never has (mainly from body issues and and something horrible that happened to her when she was 16). We worked out compromise that's acceptable to both of us (back to where we were years ago when we first started dating - and it has been great).


I'm leery of any need to negotiate for sex, and I'm not totally sure I believe in the "HD/LD" scenarios. I would never negotiate and if I were asked to negotiate, I wouldn't want to have sex at all. I believe that in most instances, men want sex more often than women do. But I also know how often I've read on boards like this one men saying things like "I thought she was low drive but found out she just didn't want sex with me." As well as how often I've read women saying "I thought I was low drive until I met so and so."

I'm not familiar with any childhood-related psycho factors that prevent women from wanting sex, so I'm not talking about any of that. I'm talking about the average woman who wants what feels good to her just like men want what feels good to them. Even if I wasn't in the mood, I never told my guy no. He didn't get the "I don't feel like it" or "I have a headache" excuses because I knew that once we got into it, it would be good. Of course, that's only if it was good. 

Yesterday, I read a guy on the boards here say "every man loves his woman to be pleased in bed" and nearly fell out of my chair when I read it because I know how far from true that statement is. I mean, I think it's great that the gentleman thinks it because it at least indicates to me that he cares about his wife's pleasure and satisfaction, but I've dated just as many guys who gave a darn as the number of guys who could not have cared less. The last one was 50 years old, and I was 33. I couldn't believe that man had spent his entire life and how many girlfriends he went through who never said one word to him about his lack of prowess and lack of attention in bed. But you know what? I didn't say anything either, and I spent 3 months with him. And that's the way many women are - we don't speak up on that sensitive issue.

So when you say something like "never had any problems in the bedroom with anyone" it falls flat on me and even scares me a little bit. You may be the world's best lover ever but I know that if you are the world's worst lover, you still might never have any problems in the bedroom with anyone. A perfect example is the story about conman Hamish McLaren. I watched the story about his exploits, where two of the women he swindled were diplomatically asked about his performance, wondering if that was what attracted them to him. They both burst out laughing and offered brief indications of his ineptitude. He was good at talking and listening to them, and he was good at swindling them out of 1.5 million dollars.

Don't be offended and don't go getting any kind of complex. I'm not saying you're terrible in bed, and I'm definitely not saying your sexual prowess has anything to do with your wife cheating on you. I'm saying if you're not that good, you would probably never know about it, and I'm only saying it because you mentioned these things. So, just in case you don't already know this stuff or could do with a little bit of help, I offer a few pointers *in this thread* so guys can know for certain what they are doing, why and how to do it, and that they are pleasing their partner.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Many red flags, esp phone usage and nude pics. You should lie low, observe, record. Put a VAR in her car, look at her social media etc, without putting her on notice what you are doing. Act normal, until you see if there is anything to find.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

labrador22 said:


> The past year or so my wife has started to go out more and more. Her brother is in a band - going to concerts has always been her thing. In the past we would go do these things together, but in 2017 one of our kids (dogs) had a major health problem and almost died. Ever since then my wife doesn't want them to be left alone at night - so since I don't altogether care for the bar/music scene nearly as much as she does I've been staying at home with the dogs.
> 
> The going out occasionally has progressed into going out constantly - there have been a few months this year where it's been every single Saturday night - sometimes she's gone on Friday and Saturday nights. I've been fine with it.


Your wife goes to bars every weekend without you, as she tells you to stay home to watch the dogs, because your “wife doesn't want them to be left alone at night”, and you actually do it? Gee, I wonder why she walks all over you, as you let her live the life of a single person every weekend. Do you realize how ridiculous you sound? 

If you want to retain any self respect, do not tell your friends and family that your wife cheated, and your marriage ended, because you stayed home to watch the dogs. Just trust me on this. Better yet, tell your wife that going forward if she does not want the dogs to be home alone at night, then she needs to dam well stay home and watch them herself.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

TRy said:


> Your wife goes to bars every weekend without you, as she tells you to stay home to watch the dogs, because your “wife doesn't want them to be left alone at night”, and you actually do it? Gee, I wonder why she walks all over you, as you let her live they life of a single person every weekend. Do you realize how ridiculous you sound?
> 
> If you want to retain any self respect, do not tell your friends and family that your wife cheated, and your marriage ended, because you stayed home to watch the dogs. Just trust me on this. Better yet, tell your wife that going forward if she does not want the dogs to be home alone at night, then she needs to dam well stay home and watch them herself.


_"Ever since then my wife doesn't want them to be left alone at night - so since I don't altogether care for the bar/music scene nearly as much as she does I've been staying at home with the dogs."_

It doesn't sound like his wife told him to stay with the dogs but that he volunteered to stay.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

labrador22 said:


> Ever since then my wife doesn't want them to be left alone at night - so since I don't altogether care for the bar/music scene nearly as much as she does I've been staying at home with the dogs.


Staying at home with the dogs...

This makes me ask the question, who are the dogs, who is watching over who?

A dog is an unconditional friend, through thick and thin.
A dog is loyal, will not bite its owner.

Dogs and cats do not mix.
Dogs are trainable, cats, not so much.

A cat will obey their masters when the masters are around.

When the cat is in the alley or at the bar, they are themselves their own master.

You are the dog, she is the cat. 
Dogs stay at home, cats stray at night looking for mischief and a meal of meat and drink.

She has no love of being loyal, would prefer her nights away in the alley, in the honky tonk bars.

She has found herself..... 
She enjoys being master of her fate, not feeling this at home.

...............................................................

It did not start out this way, no.

She initially went out and felt some guilt, and called and texted.

When the cat in her was strangely stroked, was given alcohol in her bowl, she soon learned to purr in delight.

She transformed herself from an unhappy wife into an alley cat, into a female bar fly.
She loves the cat calls, those that meet her halfway, meet her at the waist, while wasted.

Her body lives at home, her mind lives in bars, maybe the back seat of cars, maybe in the alleys.
Her fellow cats have meowed her from her home, into, amid the musical furr balls, into the paws of male Toms.

She now is a lush with her strutting cattail.
She is, likely is, an alcoholic cheetah.

Just Sayin'





[THM]- Lilith and The Typist I


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

I dont believe any man should be letting out his wife alone at bars that frequently, one time thing maybe, but repeatedly is just a recipe for disaster


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

The thing about bars....

Many in there are plump, the men sporting beer bellies.

There....she feels not so out of place, with so many 'there' looking similar in the bar mirror.

Birds of a feather flock together.

Few swifts, few falcons rest their talons, their laurels in those hide-away pubs.

Found are many crows, many plump geese, many mocking birds slumping in their seats.
@labrador22 lost his bird in their nice nest..... to a bar stool; some nights drool running down her chin.

This life, this pub life seems (to some) so much more exciting than sitting on the couch watching re-runs on Netflix.

Her legs, your wife's spindly legs have stumbled into that trap, the tavern, cavern trap that has befallen so many others....down they go into that stumbling stupor, oh gods, for thousands of years, this trek into wreck repeats.

Taken to doom by wine, by sweet drinks, by some....hopped up suds.





[THM]- The Typist I


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

CantBelieveThis said:


> I dont believe any man should be *letting* out his wife alone at bars that frequently, one time thing maybe, but repeatedly is just a recipe for disaster


Thank you for using the word, "letting".

A man owns his wife, she owns him.
Anything else is not marriage, is merely, informally, a convenience.
A legal conveyance.





[THM]- King Brian


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

StarFires said:


> _"Ever since then my wife doesn't want them to be left alone at night - so since I don't altogether care for the bar/music scene nearly as much as she does I've been staying at home with the dogs."_
> 
> It doesn't sound like his wife told him to stay with the dogs but that he volunteered to stay.


 A distinction without a difference when you are talking about an OP that is a “Mr. Nice Guy” being taken advantage of by his wife. 

The entire OP’s post has the OP complaining about her going out too much, with him saying that “The going out occasionally has progressed into going out constantly”. Typical of a Mr. Nice Guy he feels the need to say that he has “been fine with it”, followed immediately by a “-but” that explains why he is not really fine with it. He is constantly staying home alone with the dogs not because he wants to, but because that is what his wife wants him to do.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

If you can afford it, hire a PI to follow her a couple of weekends and see how she acts when out with these new friends.

Your gut is usually right or close to being right. If she is not already cheating, she is definitely acting inappropriately for a married woman.


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

She wouldn't take nudes without the intention of showing them to someone. It's likely that she's already cheating on you. 

Stop confronting. Let her believe that you've accepted her explanation, and keep a cheery disposition around the house. But go into stealth observation mode. Hide a VAR (voice-activated recorder) in her car. Consider following her to bar one night without her knowledge and seeing how she behaves, who she meets, etc. If you have any access to her phone or computer, install something that will monitor her activity.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

WOW!

If she isn't cheating, she is wasting a lot of effort because her behavior will net the same results.

She is cheating dude.

Maybe you should read No More Mr. Nice Guy.

Your wife has displayed more red flags than China and you have been bombarded into taking notice.

Your marriage hasn't been healthy for quite a while, for far longer than you realize but don't be offended because a lot of men tend to be a bit clueless until their marriages blow up.

Her behavior is on her 100% but she has probably been dissatisfied for far longer than you have been aware and women often don't know how to get through to their husbands that there is a problem.

You have to ask a couple questions of yourself now.

If she has been unfaithful, do you even want to keep her if the marriage is salvageable? If she wants to repent and work on your marriage, do you?

What are you willing to do to work through your marriage issues and what are you willing to endure? What are your boundaries and limits?

I believe there is a greater than 90% chance she is cheating.

You should probably get some voice activated recording devices going. One should be placed under her car seat, duct taped, and one or more should be place around your home.

If you have funds, a PI can work wonders and the findings are admissible in court if you need to divorce.

You absolutely need to discover what, who and how long if possible along with finding out who knew and enabled before being able to deal effectively with this.

You need to find out before confronting her because she obviously is not going to come clean.

Best wishes and get started.

P.S. you might want to consult an attorney to see the legal lay of the land and what your options are.


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## skerzoid (Feb 7, 2017)

labrador22

I would bet money that she is cheating on you.

1. *Lawyer up.* Find out your rights and probable things that will happen in a divorce.

2. *Start doing the 180 technique.* https://healinginfidelity.blogspot.com/2014/03/the-180-for-unfaithful-spouse.html

3.* Buy a couple of VARs *(voice activated recorders) and hide one under the driver's seat, and one at home where she likes to talk on the phone.

4. *Get STD check.* If she's allowing other men to put their bodily fluids in her, you are in danger.

5. *Stop jumping her every time you suspect something dude.* Play the waiting game. Be cool.

6.* Check phone bills.*

7. *Check credit card bills and start separating finances if possible.*

8. *Do not do the pick-me dance.* Do not beg. Do not cry in front of her. It just makes yo weak, pathetic, & totally unattractive in her eyes.

9. *Have her followed on nights out by friend or PI.*

10. *Show courage, strength, and decisiveness in all your actions.*


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

How are you doing, @labrador22?


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## mickybill (Nov 29, 2016)

Regarding the dogs, when my XWW began her sentence about how unhappy she was and didn't know what we should do next, my first reaction was to tell her whatever happened our yellow lab would be with me. He was much more loyal than the XWW. She left, he stayed.


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

Among other things, it sounds like her single/divorced girlfriends are a bad influence and a threat to your marriage.

I think you have reason to believe she's having an affair.

And for sure you are suspicious and feeling unsafe. Your spouse has an obligation to avoid suspicious behavior and with a history of suspicious behavior she has the burden to prove to you that she's innocent. 

While you may be 50% responsible for marriage issues, she is 100% responsible for her choice of coping mechanisms (drinking, late nights, adultery).

Hire a PI ($400 for one night and you'll know who, where, when).
Alternatively, just follow her yourself (put a gps tracker on her cell).

Check the phone logs for a number she contacts every day (probably multiple times per day).
Either calls or texts history to one number.

I suggest you see your doctor and tell him what you told us. Get tested for stds, and get help with sleeping & anger/anxiety.
See a lawyer to find out how you'd be impacted by divorce.

From here on out your actions are pretty much the same whether you want to R or D. Tears, crying, begging or trying to win her back usually fails because she'll see it as weakness. You must show zero tolerance for her behavior clubbing and zero tolerance for her secret messages.


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## Music_Man (Feb 25, 2017)

Friend, you're getting sound advice here- please heed the warnings and take the advice to heart!

Most have touched on these, but here are three initial takeaways:

1. IF she's having an affair (and the red flags are there), it's not your fault. Yes, I know- you've had your issues. Still, nothing you've done is an 'excuse' for an affair. 

2. Do NOT apologize or feel bad for going through her phone. I'm always amazed at the number of married folks who think this to be an invasion of privacy. After all, what would there be to hide, right? Carrying the phone and guarding it all times? Huge red flag.

3. Bar hopping when one spouse constantly stays home is an extreme danger zone in a marriage. All the opportunity in the world is right there. This could be a separate thread in and of itself, but I'll never get why couples think this is healthy for a marriage. Going out with TRUSTED friends on occasion isn't usually a problem. Every weekend bar hopping and coming home at the wee hours? MAJOR problem.

Don't bury your head in the sand. Your gut is telling you something. Hire a PI, place VAR's, install Fonelab/Dr Fone...be vigilant, and keep your head up. You've got support here- keep us posted.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> How are you doing, @labrador22?


Another single post OP.....on the lamb.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

StillSearching said:


> Another single post OP.....on the lamb.


Hopefully he will be back.

But sometimes people learn things they really didn't want to know and try to hide, perhaps pretending they never knew it?


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## labrador22 (Jun 14, 2019)

Thanks for all the replies. Trying to sort through it all. Still trying to sort it all out.

Here's what has played out. 

I knew I could get her passwords to everything via an iphone backup reader - had an inkling they were all stored in notes on her phone. Just needed her to leave for work Saturday morning. Sure enough passwords were on there. Nothing incriminating on the most recent back up (January). A few photos - but they were pretty clinical. We've both been on a weight loss journey - we are not grossly obese by any means - but we've been doing this together. Pictures were pretty clinical compared to the one or two that I saw a month and a half ago that most certainly were not.

Facebook messenger is where I found some stuff. There was not anything sexual - however - it certainly was being a lot more flirtacious than a married woman should be. The man in question does have a band that she goes to his shows - he also plays with her brothers band. However, most of the conversation was deleted and I only got a snippit. The question is what else was said that I'm not seeing. 

I don't want her to know that I have access to anything - so I spoofed several texts to myself to make it look like it was coming from a third party (from a non working number - so that it looked like a 3rd party was spoofing their number to conceal their identity). Basically along the lines of - you're a good guy and deserve to know what's going on - you probably should have a talk with your wife - something is going on between WW and JA (jackass) - etc. And then I confronted her with that. I was mad and emotion took over and I did it while she was still at work. Then I read her what she said to him. So at that point she thought someone had sent me screen shots of the conversation. 

Her brother and I are very close. I immediately talked to him. He was beyond pissed off. Said JA is a bit of a womanizer/over friendly with women but he thought it was an act for the music - since he's happily married, 2 kids, involved in the community, the church, a vet, etc etc. JA was set to play with his band Saturday night to a show I was going to. BIL wanted to let everyone in the band know and go fight him Saturday morning. I said no - ain't worth any of them going to jail over. 

She owned that the flirty messages were wrong to send - she was trying to get him to make some band shirts for her and her friends - but regardless it wasn't right and she messed up. I didn't and haven't accepted that. 

So then she admits that she called JA to ask what the hell was going on and why was someone sending stuff like this? Supposedly he was beyond pissed and told her I can't be having this BS - I am married and have kids and to not be messaging him any more. So she either was calling to give him a heads up - or she truly didn't know what the hell was going on and was trying to figure it out. Who knows what the truth is. Either the beginnings of something were going on and they got caught - or he truly is just an overly flirty guy and my wife liked the attention. 

When she gets home I more or less tell her that if I find a single thing out from 3rd party - even the smallest of details - that you don't tell me - we're done no questions asked. And I mean that. That if you love me, this life we've built, and this land that's been in your family for almost 150 years - you better tell the truth - because if you don't - it's all done and gone (which it is - I ain't staying there and she and her family can't afford our mortgage without me - so this piece of earth they hold so dear will be sold if the big D comes...and us Texas people are weird about stuff that's been in the family for generations). She owned a few more things - things I wouldn't have even been mad about if she'd have told me when they happened, but claims she has never cheated with someone...but does own crossing the line.

That's what happens when you don't set up boundaries. I've learned that now. 

Then the talk came to if I do chose to stay with you what needs to be done to fix this. She (not me) said 1. no more shows without me 2. full transparency with phones/passwords 3. whatever else I need for her to do to try to make things right including setting up boundaries

I mostly played it cool - I don't know if there is stuff I don't know yet or not - so we'll see what happens from here. My gut says that was the truth. However, with everything else my mind is in chaos so I do not truly know.

We both did go to the concert Saturday night. JA who is usually a big part of the show being funny - played his music, didn't even look at us, and left when it was over. Either he's pissed off because of the "drama" or he's guilty. Who knows. No telling what my BIL said or didn't say. 

WW has been trying so hard to figure out just who the hell is trying to "hurt her, me, or destroy our marriage"....She seems to think it is one of the wives in JA's band because she tells me they're constantly asking where her husband is, why does she go out without her husband, etc. And she says she gets the vibe they don't like her. So we're just going to continue on with letting her think that. It does give me some relief - because if those women truly do feel that way (which I'm sure they do) they've probably watched her like a hawk - so I highly doubt anything physical has happened. With GPS it's not like I don't know where my wife is. Not to mention - I do have a cousin (that my wife doesn't know about) who plays in JA's band. His wife is always there - and she knows who she is. So she is watched.

At this point here is what I feel:

We were having our own marriage problems for a while, not to mention she works in a career field with one of the highest suicide rates in the world - so the going out without me became more and more to escape and listen to music. The more she went to JA's shows - the more friendly it got - friendly talk became flirty talk - she liked the attention - it was new and different - like what we used to have and had for many years - this was definitely heading in a very bad direction. 

At this point all I really know to do is remain extra vigilant - listen to my gut (which right now has quieted down) - and work on fixing my own problems that might have pushed her away to begin with. For too long I was a push over and never really stood up to anything and just tried to make her happy. No more. Time to be a man and lead. Is it too late? Who knows. 

But also - set up boundaries, stop this going out by herself bullcrap, and get some transparency. 

I also need to be a man and stop lying to her. A major thing with her was dipping snuff. As far as she knows I quit many many years ago - before we even got married. I haven't. So I suppose I'm just as guilty of hurting this marriage as she is.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

You cant compare snuff to potential cheating. You played this well.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

labrador22 said:


> WW has been trying so hard to figure out just who the hell is trying to "hurt her, me, or destroy our marriage"....


The answer is easy. Your WW is hurting herself, you and destroying the marriage. She needs to look no further.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Good job. Make sure you dont let her know you spoofed those messages, this keeps her on her toes. I'm glad to read that she responded in a positive way though.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

labrador22 said:


> Thanks for all the replies. Trying to sort through it all. Still trying to sort it all out.
> 
> Here's what has played out.
> 
> ...


It's not the Copenhagen. Copenhagen keeps me from strangling people. It looks like you nipped this in the bud before it got out oh hand. But the issues that got yall there need to be dealt with. Maybe something did happen, and you may never get the full story.


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## Music_Man (Feb 25, 2017)

labrador22 said:


> But also - set up boundaries, stop this going out by herself bullcrap, and get some transparency.


This, all day long. I know as much as anyone here as to how ineffective (or zero, for that matter) boundaries can lead to disaster (or near disaster, in my case). Get those boundaries in place and be FIRM. 

And yes, for goodness sake, stop the going out solo business. Nothing good can come from constantly being apart on weekend nights. Perhaps it's time to take a look at your lifestyle a bit, and modify as necessary. You stated earlier you didn't like going out as much as she. Discuss this, and be firm in your stance- you have the evidence as to how it can be problematic. 

I'm a guitar player and fairly sought after in our area. I turn down gigs often and I choose to stay away from this environment simply because it's ripe with marital pitfalls. I stick to coffee houses and the occasional wedding. Not saying you can't go out and enjoy music- my W and I do it fairly often- but do it TOGETHER.


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## labrador22 (Jun 14, 2019)

Music_Man said:


> This, all day long. I know as much as anyone here as to how ineffective (or zero, for that matter) boundaries can lead to disaster (or near disaster, in my case). Get those boundaries in place and be FIRM.
> 
> And yes, for goodness sake, stop the going out solo business. Nothing good can come from constantly being apart on weekend nights. Perhaps it's time to take a look at your lifestyle a bit, and modify as necessary. You stated earlier you didn't like going out as much as she. Discuss this, and be firm in your stance- you have the evidence as to how it can be problematic.
> 
> I'm a guitar player and fairly sought after in our area. I turn down gigs often and I choose to stay away from this environment simply because it's ripe with marital pitfalls. I stick to coffee houses and the occasional wedding. Not saying you can't go out and enjoy music- my W and I do it fairly often- but do it TOGETHER.


I definitely will be going out with her when she goes out for the foreseeable future. 

I put it all on her when I said wanting me to stay with the dogs - but I do carry my own responsibility with that. From Nov through January I'm up at 3am Friday, Saturday, and Sunday guiding clients on waterfowl hunting trips. So I have no care to stay out late. Then during the spring and fall I'm on the water before sunrise fishing. So yeah - some her - some me. That doesn't take into account that I work 4-12s mon-thurs...so I can be off on the weekends for my hobbies (to relieve the stress of my extremely stressful/professional job). That doesn't even take in to account the time it I spend maintaining our little slice of home. 

I'm not saying she's innocent - she isn't...but looking at the big picture I can see why we are here now. With her job she works six days a week...so we stopped making the time for each other like we should at some point. We both love our jobs - but I can certainly adjust my hobbies - the hunting guide business is mainly because I enjoy seeing my dogs work - not for the money...so the sacrifices will have to come from my time - because I have more free time to sacrifice. She's already to offered to tone down the going out - which she will - but I'll be there from now on.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Why does she work so much? Can that be cut back as well? It does sound like neither of you have made spending time together a priority, so BOTH of you should be cutting back where you can so that you can get things back.


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## mickybill (Nov 29, 2016)

Good job on the confrontation. Don't reveal your sources. Or this site. Trust but verify.

If you want to come clean about the snuff, tell you appreciate her "honesty" about her crush on the band guy. Tell her that you want to tell her something that you've been keeping from her. Pause a couple seconds then tell her, the snuff will probably be the least bad thing she could think of. MAybe she already knows, is using snuff something you can hide or not?

When I looked at my XWW phone to me it was like I smelled smoke (her actions regarding the phone) and I was looking to find out if there was a fire.

I had a few friends in a band, if I didn't have a date I would sit at the wives table. First good thing was free drinks! Second was how they knew all the groupie wannabees who would come to the shows and flirt with the band guys. The guys all were faithful (I think) and a bit showy or flirty to keep the mood up but there were a few "Hold my beer" moments when a wife had to go shut down a fan who crossed a line.


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## Music_Man (Feb 25, 2017)

3Xnocharm said:


> Why does she work so much? Can that be cut back as well? It does sound like neither of you have made spending time together a priority, so BOTH of you should be cutting back where you can so that you can get things back.


I was going to post something to this effect. Sounds like there isn't enough time- or at least enough quality time- for each other.


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## labrador22 (Jun 14, 2019)

Music_Man said:


> I was going to post something to this effect. Sounds like there isn't enough time- or at least enough quality time- for each other.





3Xnocharm said:


> Why does she work so much? Can that be cut back as well? It does sound like neither of you have made spending time together a priority, so BOTH of you should be cutting back where you can so that you can get things back.


I don't want to give out too many personal details. I really feel like I've put too much out there to where someone who casually knows us could easily figure it out. 

Cutting back isn't an option - it is just the nature of that business. I don't have a problem with her work hours. Hers works out to about 45ish hours a week. And she's close to home. Medical profession of sorts. 

I have a very long commute. So once you add in my commute time (around 2 hours one way)...it really adds up on my end even for a four day work week. So in that aspect plus my hobbies - it is probably me that needs to dial it in some and make more time specifically for us. The guide business is done. The fishing every single week is done.

I think there is some resentment on her end - all those years where I mentioned that we did EVERYTHING together - well I still had and did my hobbies. A lot of times while she sat at home and had no friends. I'll own that - pretty crappy on my part. Don't know why I didn't see it then. Easy for me to change that and I definitely will going forward.

We do have a vacation scheduled (that was scheduled by her - before any of this came about) within the next month or so. First time we've gone anywhere together without the dogs since our honeymoon. With everything that's come to pass - maybe it will be really good for us.


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

Have you checked your WW phone usage online? 

If your wife is offering transparency, take her phone and run some type of recovery software on it. To many red flags(nudes) for this not to be more than what you think.


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## faithfulman (Jun 4, 2018)

Tobyboy said:


> Have you checked your WW phone usage online?
> 
> If your wife is offering transparency, take her phone and run some type of recovery software on it. To many red flags(nudes) for this not to be more than what you think.


Exactly this. Get Fonelab and run a recovery on her phone and any of her older phones. 

Honestly, I think you are believing her a little too quickly, and letting her off a bit too easily. 

If you really want to know what she has been up to, you can recover those deleted messages. And also look at her phone usage as @Tobyboy suggests.

And seriously, you need to get your family unit away from this environment. You see what it is. It's not worth it.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

For the most part I can understand her going to see her brother's band.

But no way going out alone to see JA's band.

But you are wise to say if you can not make it - then she does not go.

I had to do something similar with my wife when it became evident she could not handle alcohol. Not an alcoholic, but once she started drinking she would not stop and she does not know when she is drunk. Even with me there telling her to slow down. It all came to a close when I took her to a New Years party with an open bar. I kept telling her to ease up on the drinking - she kept telling me she was fine. She kept telling me she was fine - I'm not drunk - right up until she passed out face down on our bed.

New rule. Absolutely no alcohol if I am not there. That's been the rule for over 35 years.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

You'll eventually come to discover that being the "marriage police" and always having to monitor your less-than-loyal spouse in order to keep them 'honest' (because left to their own devices, they'd likely happily break the rules) is a whole lot of wasted effort.

There's *got *to be a payoff for _choosing_ to live like this. I just don't know what it could possibly be.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

StarFires said:


> _"Ever since then my wife doesn't want them to be left alone at night - so since I don't altogether care for the bar/music scene nearly as much as she does I've been staying at home with the dogs."_
> 
> It doesn't sound like his wife told him to stay with the dogs but that he volunteered to stay.


OP,

How much did you volunteer for, for how long is this "contract" why don't you force yourself to go "at the last minute" with her when she had made plans, so you can gauge her reaction, check out her bar "buddies" etc?


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

A couple of things (I know I'm tardy for the party):

My dear friend had a husband who hunted and fished and was a tour guide to guest hunters on his friend's land. That man was never and I mean never home. I felt so bad for her. She was pretty much a single mother to HIS kids. They divorced for different reasons (he cheated.) I am in no way excusing your wife's actions here. But I know how very lonely her life probably is with a husband whose hobbies make it hard to have time together. Glad to hear you're going to scale back on that.

Re: the nude pics. I could totally understand the pics since she is losing weight IF they are clinical-those that show the front, side, and back of her body. But since you said they are erotic photos, it doesn't pass the sniff test.

All in all, I think you handled this well. I do think, however, there is much more to the story. Trust but verify. Good luck.


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## Music_Man (Feb 25, 2017)

@lucy999

"Trust but verify". Those three words are of vital importance here. I hope the OP takes this to heart.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Music_Man said:


> @lucy999
> 
> "Trust but verify". Those three words are of vital importance here. I hope the OP takes this to heart.


I do too.


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## MyRevelation (Apr 12, 2016)

lab22,

Good to meet a fellow sportsman. I’m a breeder/trainer/guide also ... albeit upland birds (grouse & woodcock) over English setters. Unfortunately, we are also both BH’s.

What you have described contains way too many red flags to be anything other than your WW having some type of extramarital activity.

With that said, are you inclined to try to stop the A and attempt R or is an A a dealbreaker for you? The advice you receive will depend on how you answer that basic question.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

My opinion as someone who had a cheating spouse. At the start, I did the same as you. Made excuses for her, was quick to blame myself for her behaviours. Believed her at her word rather than observing her actions. She could have been riding a bike, and I would have believed her if she'd said she was riding a horse. 

It took a very long time before I was even truly receptive to the incredible advice I got here, so believe me when I say I know what I'm seeing here.

Her behaviour is extremely similar to my ex wife's when she was cheating:

-She started going out more and more frequently

-She started staying out frequently, often Friday and Saturday. It became a weekly thing.

-She was vague about her plans. I'd ask where she was going and she'd say something like "Just out with friends".

-She became very secretive about her phone

-She used to check in when she was out to let me know she was safe. This tailed off gradually until the point I'd go 48 hours each week without know where she was, how she was or who she was with.

-I confronted her about this a few times, and i'd be accused of being jealous and controlling. I was a "Nice Guy" like you, so I'd end up apologising, telling her I'd do better. I'd let it slide for a while but frustration and resentment would build until I confronted her again, and again. It was turned around on me every time

It's good that you have confronted her, but don't be too quick to think it's all water under the bridge, and don't take any blame for her actions.

If nobody has suggested it yet, read No More Mr Nice Guy. Understand why you are the way you are and that's the first step to breaking the cycle.

Like others in this thread I suspect there is a lot more to this than she is letting on. Over the coming weeks or months it'd be wise to prepare for repeats of this behaviour, possible blame shifting and eventually even the phrase

"I love you but I'm not in love with you." (ILYBINILWY). 

This phrase crops up in an absolutely shocking number of cases of adultery. It actually has a second part that very rarely, if ever, gets spoken. The full version goes something along the lines of:

"I love you but I'm not in love with you..... because I'm sleeping with someone else who gets my dopamine receptors firing like atom bombs."

I really hope that I am wrong, but in case I'm not it can't hurt to be prepared, right? 

Read No More Mr Nice Guy.

Focus on yourself, spend some quality time doing something completely and utterly for you. Preferably on a night she wants to go out alone. Make her stay home with the dogs.

Stay guarded, I'm not saying don't be open to her, but trust your gut. If something feels wrong, it probably is.

Just a little prep work is all.

Keep us updated here and there will be loads more advice as the situation changes, for better or for worse.


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## labrador22 (Jun 14, 2019)

Well. I truly appreciate all of the advice. Yesterday was a tough day.

I've been lying to myself. I knew. Even before I saw "that" specific picture...I knew. I knew it was going on and I knew who it was. 

I pushed on with this fake persona - this mystery person. I made a fake profile that was obviously a fake profile and messaged her. More or less asked her if her husband had told her about "me" yet. Pushed on from there. Sent her the prior FB password she was using to make it clear I was someone who had seen everything. I was bluffing. But she fully confessed to everything. So "I" told her - well if you're not going to tell your husband - I most definitely will. She begged and said she planned to last night. (This was all in the morning). SO I told her too late - I just sent him this conversation. 

His wife and I'm sure small children know too. I honestly do not care what happens to him. 

And things have gone from there. All evidence leads toward an EA and only an EA (I guess? Dirty talk and pictures make feel like it's just pure cheating...calling it an EA seems to be trying to put lipstick on a pig) - I've had more details than I could ever want. Pictures, discussing both of their marriage problems, dirty talk, you name it.

She "claims" that every day it ate at her and she knew it was wrong. And that she made it clear from the beginning that she loved me - and would only ever be with me - that whatever this "was" had an expiration date and was for a temporary escape. He claimed the same thing - that he could not lose his wife and kids.

Who knows what the heck to believe at this point.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

labrador22 said:


> Well. I truly appreciate all of the advice. Yesterday was a tough day.
> 
> I've been lying to myself. I knew. Even before I saw "that" specific picture...I knew. I knew it was going on and I knew who it was.
> 
> ...


There's a few things you can definitely believe at this point.

She's a cheater, and her undying love didn't seem to matter much when she was with OM.

Saying that she made it clear she would only ever be with you seems rather redundant now doesn't it?


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

labrador22 said:


> Well. I truly appreciate all of the advice. Yesterday was a tough day.
> 
> I've been lying to myself. I knew. Even before I saw "that" specific picture...I knew. I knew it was going on and I knew who it was.
> 
> ...


just typical cheater talk bro, I know is hard to hear but keep in mind they all act and say nearly the same nonsense....is called the cheaters script.....regardless of whatever path you take forward dont let her behavior get to you too much, she was just acting like millions of other cheaters do, nothing special or unique


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## labrador22 (Jun 14, 2019)

Just don't really know where to take it from here.

R or D? That is what I really do not know. Obviously I love her - always will regardless of the outcome. When I say this woman was my best friend and soul mate - I mean that...but at some point it obviously stopped being that for her or this would have never happened. Part of me truly believes this would never happen again...the other part of me says once a cheater always a cheater.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

labrador22 said:


> Just don't really know where to take it from here.
> 
> R or D? That is what I really do not know. Obviously I love her - always will regardless of the outcome. When I say this woman was my best friend and soul mate - I mean that...but at some point it obviously stopped being that for her or this would have never happened. Part of me truly believes this would never happen again...the other part of me says once a cheater always a cheater.


Has she admitted to a physical affair? Kissing, groping, sex? What did she admit in the spoof convo? And what makes you think she would admit all to a person who claimed to know a little about what she was doing? A person she really does not know? Cheaters are accomplished liars.

You still have not gotten the entire truth. What you have is called Trickle Truth. She admits to a little more each time she is confronted with more "evidence". Talking becomes kissing, kissing becomes groping and sexual touching, touching becomes a BJ and sex.

Remember - you thought you had the truth when she said she was only attempting to get T-shirts. You were right when you wondered if she called him to warn him the affair was exposed. The crap she told you that was said was to get their stories straight.

To make an R or D decision, you need to have the entire truth.

Have you used Fonelab to get the deleted messages? The fact that she was deleting messages tells you she really did not want evidence of what she did saved for someone else to stumble across.

To attempt R you have to know what you are forgiving - I don't think you have the entire story yet. Also to R she has to feel your pain because of her betrayal - I don't see that yet.

Get those deleted messages.

And BTW - did you not tell her if you found out anything more that it would be D no questions asked? Be careful with threats you are not prepared to carry out.


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## Music_Man (Feb 25, 2017)

TDSC60 said:


> Has she admitted to a physical affair? Kissing, groping, sex? What did she admit in the spoof convo? And what makes you think she would admit all to a person who claimed to know a little about what she was doing? A person she really does not know? Cheaters are accomplished liars.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sound advice here. Do whatever you have to do to do it, but get those messages! The messages were key in my situation- I have no doubt that they will be for you, in whatever direction they go.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Now that you know who it is, you should contact the POSOM's wife and let HER know. SHE will be your helper to make sure that a) it is stopped, and b) in monitoring in the future in case they find other ways to contact each other.

PLUS, she (his wife) deserves to know who she is married to.


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## labrador22 (Jun 14, 2019)

His wife knows. He knows - first thing I did was get his number from my BIL and call him. Everyone knows. Everyone - her brother, her family, her friends, my family. I want her to feel just a little bit that I feel. Vindictive? Maybe.

I think I have the whole truth - she thinks this person has all of the pictures and messages. Yesterday she admitted what was said in the sexual conversations. Way more than I ever wanted to know. God that ****** hurt. She thinks at any point I can ask this person for everything and they will send it to me. I've already found the pictures. I found those on her phone. I don't know that I want to see the conversation.

Trust me - I am 100% not letting her off the hook or get off easy. I am trying to make her feel every ounce of what I'm feeling. She was physically sick yesterday and today. I don't feel sorry for her. 

Every question - other than why - she doesn't have a great answer for it - has been answered - and it's been a lot of answers that are extremely hard to listen to.

If I don't have the whole truth - automatic done. I'm meeting with an attorney at lunch. Doesn't mean my minds made up - but I need to get my ducks in a row. Deep down I love this woman - right now I hate her. We will see where it goes from here.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

labrador22 said:


> Just don't really know where to take it from here.
> 
> Obviously I love her - always will regardless of the outcome. When I say this woman was my best friend and soul mate - I mean that...


Explore this further. You have her on a pedestal.

There is no such thing as soulmates, and frankly the concept of it is incredibly depressing. Of all the billions of people on the planet, there is only one? Most definitely not.

You sound like I did to begin with.

My advice would be to stop spending energy on her. Spend it on yourself, work on you. I'll re-iterate:

Read No More Mr. Nice Guy
Read Married Man's Sex Life Primer
Google oneitis and learn about it

Prepare for the worst - if you divorce you're left with you, so start building a good relationship with yourself. If you reconcile you'll be a better man, and better positioned to deal with the many trials of mending fences with a cheating spouse.

Valuing her higher than yourself does not command respect. Respect is a key component in a relationship. 

If you found out she had been sleeping with OM for months or years, lying to you this whole time. Honestly what would your reaction be?

Whether she says it was physical or not, the first letter in the affair acronyms are the least important. It's the big capital A that's the issue. She is feeding you typical cheater speak, hoping you will believe it, or better (for her) blame yourself. Cheaters do this for 3 reasons:

To sweep it under the carpet and or continue the affair a little longer.

To shift the blame on you, allowing them to relieve their guilt whilst realigning their own perception that YOU were the one in the wrong.

To keep you hanging as a plan B. She wants your validation and every time you side with her, excuse her behaviour, give her any non-business contact she is getting that - also on some level she knows the OM isn't trustworthy, he is engaging in an affair with a married woman and is married himself. If she leaves you for OM subconsciously she already knows it's doomed to fail - cheaters love to have a back up plan. They want to have their cake and eat it.


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

labrador22 said:


> His wife knows. He knows - first thing I did was get his number from my BIL and call him. Everyone knows. Everyone - her brother, her family, her friends, my family. I want her to feel just a little bit that I feel. Vindictive? Maybe.
> 
> I think I have the whole truth - she thinks this person has all of the pictures and messages. Yesterday she admitted what was said in the sexual conversations. Way more than I ever wanted to know. God that ****** hurt. She thinks at any point I can ask this person for everything and they will send it to me. I've already found the pictures. I found those on her phone. I don't know that I want to see the conversation.
> 
> ...


here is the answer to your "why".

first, "it felt good and seemed like the thing to do at the time".....even though it probably started out much more innocent, it always snowballs to this.

second, there is a need being met there. usually the cheater doesn't even realize what the need really is and just finds themselves enthralled in the flattery and attention.

finally, all you are getting is trickle truth. she has only fessed up to what you could find. in other words, this goes even deeper (and most likely sexual) then you realize. all those late Fri/Sat nights...do you REALLY believe after learning her capacity to lie.....she hasn't slept with him?


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Lab, IS the guy the guy from her brothers band or is it someone else?


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

You now know what she is capable of.
What kind of long term partner she would turn out to be.
What she is willing to risk.
What her price to leave you devastated would be.

There is no doubt this would eventually go physical.

Will she do it again?
Can you get past it?
Can she really be happy with you long term?

She has been chasing this, craving this, obsessed with it.

Your needs? Well...

ETA: There are some people who cheat one time and see the damage and what they would have lost, 
are truly remorseful and will do the heavy lifting to fix their issue and repair the relationship, and help you heal.

If that is what you want I hope it works out for you.

I am sorry, good luck.


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## labrador22 (Jun 14, 2019)

jlg07 said:


> Lab, IS the guy the guy from her brothers band or is it someone else?


Yes exactly who I thought it was from day one.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@labrador22 it is early days, yet. But I will suggest that marriage counselling and individual counselling for you both could be of benefit.

Good luck. And remember we will always be here for you.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

I hope your BIL fires his ass and "tunes" him up....

If his wife knows, what are HIS repercussions?


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Lab,

You really loved the woman you married. People change. A sad fact of life, but still true. You would not believe she would do what she has done or you would not have married her. But she has done it. 

Another fact - if we saw the betrayal to come before the wedding we would have run hard and fast to get away. The pain of a cancelled wedding cannot compare to the pain of betrayal by a wife.

What you need to understand is that the woman you loved has changed. She is no longer the woman you married. She is no longer the woman you fell in love with. She is no longer the innocent girl you married. She has become someone who can exchange sexual messages and pictures with another man and hide it and lie to your face about it. The fact that she continued until you caught her says a lot about what she considered important and it was not you or the marriage.

Since she is such an accomplished liar, you have to take everything she says with a grain of salt. Is she just saying what she thinks you want to hear? Is she truly done with the other guy or are they just cooling off for a while until they can decide how to hide it better? Are you simply her Plan B or fallback guy since her affair has been exposed?

Betrayal changes everything. It kills trust, and it changes the unconditional love you think you had.

Give yourself some time to consider what you feel. Take some time to calm down before making the final decision. Read up on the 180. Have her read "Not just Friends" by Shirley Glass. You read it too. Do not be blinded by nostalgia - what you thought you had before her affair. Take a trip on your own for a few days to consider the situation without her around to muddy the waters.

Consider a polygraph to insure that it never went physical. Her reaction to that request could tell you a lot. Most cheaters who had an EA only would jump at the chance to ease your mind and prove to you that it was not a physical affair. While most cheaters who did take it physical come up with all kinds of convoluted reasons to avoid a poly.

What you have to do now is decide if you can stay married to the person she has become. It is your choice.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

There are some people who cheat one time and see the damage and what they would have lost, 
are truly remorseful and will do the heavy lifting to fix their issue and repair the relationship, and help you heal.

If that is what you want I hope it works out for you.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

TDSC60 said:


> Lab,
> 
> You really loved the woman you married. People change. A sad fact of life, but still true. You would not believe she would do what she has done or you would not have married her. But she has done it.


People do change, but from personal experience and reading lab's posts there are a lot of signs of Oneitis, Wife on Pedestal & Nice Guy traits.

It's entirely possible his wife never existed as he perceived her.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

WantWifeBack said:


> People do change, but from personal experience and reading lab's posts there are a lot of signs of Oneitis, Wife on Pedestal & Nice Guy traits.
> 
> It's entirely possible his wife never existed as he perceived her.


True. And if she is a selfish liar at her core, then his pain will only increase as he learns more about her current affair or WHEN she embarks on her next affair. 

One thing I just remembered, he said he had told her that she would loose at least half of the land her family had held for a very long time if they divorce. Sadly, she could be playing the remorseful wife only because of that.

It would not be the first time a false R was pursued because of financial or familial entanglements.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

The disturbing thing to me is that she had to chase this guy to make this work. She detached and withdrew from Lab, then in typical cheater thinking, "didn't feel like she was married" and replaced Lab with this Pos as her emotional focus.

Think about the amount of time, money, planning, and pinning that went into this. None of which went into her relationship with Lab.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

labrador22 said:


> Just don't really know where to take it from here.
> 
> R or D? That is what I really do not know. Obviously I love her - always will regardless of the outcome. When I say this woman was my best friend and soul mate - I mean that...but at some point it obviously stopped being that for her or this would have never happened. Part of me truly believes this would never happen again...the other part of me says once a cheater always a cheater.


You don't have to make a decision right this second.

And, I'm really sorry.


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## faithfulman (Jun 4, 2018)

labrador22 said:


> I've already found the pictures. I found those on her phone. *I don't know that I want to see the conversation*.



I know it is scary, but I think that you must get the deleted messages, or this unsureness will eat at you forever.

Recovering deleted messages is even better than a polygraph, because they are completely unfiltered. Nothing your wife says now is pure; everything she says is run through the filter of saving her ass from the ****-storm she created.


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## Music_Man (Feb 25, 2017)

faithfulman said:


> I know it is scary, but I think that you must get the deleted messages, or this unsureness will eat at you forever.
> 
> 
> 
> Recovering deleted messages is even better than a polygraph, because they are completely unfiltered. Nothing your wife says now is pure; everything she says is run through the filter of saving her ass from the ****-storm she created.



@labrador22

Please heed this advice! In my case, the text messages were key in corroborating my W's story, and in proving that it stopped when she said it did. 

Yes, the messages brought some serious pain, but if you'll prepare yourself for the absolute worse case scenario- you'll survive it and you'll be stronger for it.

You can't choose to either walk away or try to reconcile without knowing exactly what you are walking away from or what's left to reconcile. 

Fonelab and Dr. Fone are wonderful tools. They work...even years later!


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

GET THOSE DELETED MESSAGES.

All you have now is the word of a confirmed cheater that they did nothing physical. 

If you do not do everything you can to get the entire truth, your mind will start to fill in the blanks. You will never be completely at peace.

She knew it was wrong but did it anyway. She knew she was betraying you and your marriage vows but cheated anyway. And the big one - she never stopped sexting and going to his concerts until she was caught. She never voluntarily stopped hiding her sins and keeping secrets until she was confronted with undeniable evidence. She has a multitude of reasons to play the remorseful wife. But that could all be an act. And she appears very good at acting and lying.

To have a successful R you have to know the entire truth about what happened.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Music_Man said:


> @labrador22
> 
> Please heed this advice! In my case, the text messages were key in corroborating my W's story, and in proving that it stopped when she said it did.
> 
> ...


MM,

If I remember correctly you also had your wife take a poly to confirm what she was telling you what the recovered messages indicated.

Did that help ease your mind? Did it help you make a final decision?


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## Music_Man (Feb 25, 2017)

TDSC60 said:


> MM,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, it did, but not necessarily the results of the poly in and of itself. I felt as though if there were anything else to tell, I would've gotten that 'parking lot' or 'pre poly' confession that so many folks get.

I also believed my wife, and the messages were there, but it had been a number of years. My main concern was that over the years she might have convinced herself of a different version of the 'truth'. The poly was there, in essence, to help extract any final details...an insurance policy of sorts. 

That she passed it without so much as a needle bump through all of the questions, and that the poly examiner was steadfast in believing there was no hint of deception- it was just a relief more than anything. 

I was concerned that she and the doc were in contact, and there could've been a verbal conversation that led to other things- even an attempt, such as meeting him somewhere. That's why I felt I needed to ask those specific questions, even though the texts indicated that she declined all physical advances and requests for off-campus escapades. 

Leave no stone unturned- that's how I see it. Trust- but verify!


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

TDSC60 said:


> True. And if she is a selfish liar at her core, then his pain will only increase as he learns more about her current affair or WHEN she embarks on her next affair.
> 
> One thing I just remembered, he said he had told her that she would loose at least half of the land her family had held for a very long time if they divorce. Sadly, she could be playing the remorseful wife only because of that.
> 
> It would not be the first time a false R was pursued because of financial or familial entanglements.


Also true. I'm almost certain she's only giving half the story. Her behaviour suggests she's a cake-eater. Cake-eater's love to play the game of commiting just enough time and detail to give the illusion of remorse & potential R whilst allowing them to continue the affair, all with the added bonus of a back-up plan when the affair implodes.

When you're in lab's situation it's very difficult to be objective and believe that of a person you love though. You hope, and pray and try to see the best, unless you're at 50k.
@labrador22 has anyone explained the concept of 50k yet?


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Lab,
If you want to drive the point home you should try to speak her language.

The next time she says she is soooo sorry, say in as matter a fact a way as you can, "It does not matter to me if you are sorry or not, you are no longer my girl".

Have a mop ready, it has been a while since we have had a snot-bubbles report.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Polygraph


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So what are your requirements for her to not get kicked out of the house?


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## labrador22 (Jun 14, 2019)

Just wanted to say thanks again for all the support.

As hurtful as it was I did see the messages. They did line up with her story she told me the day she was "caught" even though she doesn't realize I had caught her well before. She still thinks some 3rd party hacked her Facebook and was reading their messages from the beginning. I'm just going to stick with that..for good. 

I can say with confidence that nothing physical had happened - yet - although he was certainly pushing for it. She has said over and over again that this started out as a friendship type deal - which is certainly supported by the messages - and that he gradually pushed it further and further. She has not tried to blame me - but she was getting the emotional aspects from him that I had stopped giving to her - and so she let herself get wrapped up further and further to the point where she finally gave in and started sending the pictures. He made her feel good about herself and made her laugh. She never initiated the sexual stuff...God does she suck at it..I almost laughed a few times reading it all. He's laughable too. It's just not her thing - and it's obvious it wasn't even in this when she was trying to put on this act to please him. At least it comes a little more naturally with me, although I don't force it because it's just not her and not what makes her tick.

Honestly only maybe 10% of the talk was sexual. That doesn't change anything though - all of it was wrong. And she knows that. They talked a lot about their spouses, their marriage problems, can't count how many times she (and he too) said I have zero intention of leaving my husband and whatever this is - ends at some point. I love him and will always be with him....it's still ****** up though that rather than talk to me she chose to let this happen. Although I can't say she hasn't tried to talk to me numerous times the past 3 years (since things haven't been great between us) about what she needed from me. She has. A bunch. Not saying it is my fault this happened, but in hindsight it certainly could have been prevented if I was taking care of what was needed from me. One thing that I guess is a bright spot is that she never spoke badly about me. It was always I hope he/we can fix this. He is doing xyz and it is making me feel this way, etc. He trashed his wife all the time though. 

His wife knows everything. It wasn't his first time doing something like this..not even the second...I knew that from day one but my wife thought she was a special friend to him. Idiot. The band knows - he's out. My wife still won't see her parents or brother out of embarrassment - but it's slowly getting better. Last week I actually got a burner phone and texted her as his wife (his wife is actually crazy...I do know her)...even told her it was a burner phone because "I don't want my husband to find out" and more or less made her re-live and tell everything to "his wife." She did. My wife probably needed that closure and to be "confronted" by her. I also wanted to see if she'd be honest and tell me if she heard from someone on that side. And she did tell me. 

At the end of the day she totally failed me and betrayed me. That's not to say I didn't fail her too. 

In the long run this probably saved our marriage as screwed up as that logic sounds. We were both unhappy. I'm not going to sit here with a holier-than-thou attitude and claim that I would never do this - fact is - I was just as unhappy and probably would have jumped at the opportunity to talk to someone if that had presented itself. Except I know me - and I know if I was in the same situation it wouldn't have just been dirty talk and pictures. 

My wife married someone who was in shape, successful, fun to be around, and loving - but also someone who gave and demanded respect from her. At some point I got fat, boring, and kind of turned into a grumpy ******* that was very far from being a decent husband. Same goes for my wife in her own way. In the end - she did screw up royally. Ultimately I've made the choice to forgive her. It'll always be trust but verify from here on out...but I do think we get another chance to make this right and avoid the pitfalls from before.

We actually had planned a week long trip to Mexico over the 4th. I really considered cancelling it. I am glad I didn't because we benefited from the time away from everyone and everything. 

She knows what I need from her to be happy in this marriage - and its finally gotten through to me of what she needs from me. Inevitably the blame is on her, but I can't help but blame myself to an extent. When I say she tried MANY times to get through to me over a long period of time - I'm serious. It's not Stockholm Syndrome...she tried...I just for whatever reason chose to kept doing what I was doing. I never voiced what I needed from here in a constructive way either. It felt good to be able to have an honest conversation with each other for once and to keep building on that. 

Sorry for the long winded reply. May or may not be back here. Who knows. I think she was someone who screwed up once - and won't ever do it again - but like I said - trust but verify everything going forward. If I'm actually being the man she married instead of the reclusive loser I turned in to - and she's doing what I need from her - we'll be alright. Just going to take a lot of work.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

Thanks for the update!


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Upfront when they are in self preservation mode they'll promise the moon. If she doesn't take some action to fix herself your chances of this happening again are high.

Being a marriage warden is not the life you want.

MC's are notorious rugsweepers.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

The other thing is once she sent porn pictures you have zero control over them. You don't know where they'll end up.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Good update.

I hope both of you can learn from the past and not repeat what has happened. If you can do that going forward you will make it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Get the book His Needs Her Needs, and read it together. It will change your life.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Also get the two books listed below. MMSLP is for you. NOT JUST FRIENDS is for you both. 


Hopefully, knowledge can protect you and your marriage. 

Since she was always guarding her phone, was that to keep you from seeing just her and his messages? Were there other things being hidden? Did anyone else know what was going on?


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## labrador22 (Jun 14, 2019)

Chaparral said:


> Also get the two books listed below. MMSLP is for you. NOT JUST FRIENDS is for you both.
> 
> 
> Hopefully, knowledge can protect you and your marriage.
> ...


No one else knew. At the shows they would only speak in passing. Yes the phone protectiveness revolved around that. She has stopped with the protectiveness. She is pretty paranoid that whoever this third party that "hacked" her facebook has/or is going to send the pictures to other people. 

I did not ask but she gave me her passwords to everything. I haven't logged on. The old me probably would be on there constantly watching everything - but if I am going to get better going forward I can't be the marriage police and I can't try to control her. If I get any kind of inkling something is going on again we'll be on our merry ways after the divorce. She knows that. All I can try to do is be a decent man for myself and not the wimp I was. If she strays again it's on her and I'm done. 

I will look into those books. I just finished No More Mr. Nice Guy and damn if it wasn't written about me.

To the above comment: She has actually started making changes. Me as well.


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## FoolishOne (Sep 19, 2018)

labrador22 said:


> Chaparral said:
> 
> 
> > Also get the two books listed below. MMSLP is for you. NOT JUST FRIENDS is for you both.
> ...


Not being the marriage police is nice and all... But I wouldn't recommend relying on gut feeling to know whether she cheats again.

You should probably check in on her from time to time. At least once every 6 months. Secretly if you can. If she believes you are not looking at all she is more likely to slip up if she is looking to cheat still.

I'm a former wayward... And I believe trusting a wayward in the early days (first year give or take) is dangerous. Nobody changes on a dime.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

The reason people get caught up in affairs is their addictive nature. It’s actually the love drugs that are released into the body, serotonin etc. 

It’s pretty much a given that trust but verify is the way to go. Addictions are just hard to break.

It doesn’t hurt at all for her to suspect you are checking up on her. It also shows you care and helps her stay resolved.


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

Chaparral said:


> The reason people get caught up in affairs is their addictive nature. It’s actually the love drugs that are released into the body, serotonin etc.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You are always spot on man! There are plenty people that get the same loving lust chemical feelings, but their prefontral cortex prevails, and then reason and logic kicks in....in some others unfortunately that does not happen.


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