# Boredom During Foreplay



## chronicallyfrustrated (Jul 21, 2017)

I'm talking from a wife's perspective, but this question isn't just for dudes who might get bored/have overcome boredom during foreplay. All perspectives welcome!

How do you keep yourself engaged during foreplay?

My DH has always been pretty hot/cold when it comes to foreplay. He has a tendency to zone out/look or act bored/get distracted during foreplay. Sometimes I'm "giving too many instructions" or seem too frustrated with his (lack of?) performance, and he quits. Of course, any of these scenarios means that any progress made with the foreplay is totally reversed. If I'm not trying to give instructions or improve the foreplay for myself, the foreplay usually only lasts until HE is ready for penetration, not until I fully am. DH also has a bad habit of reaching for his own genitals instead of mine - that is to say, if he's feeling frisky and wants to engage sexually, he focuses only on his own body.. Which is just completely counter-intuitive. In addition, DH also tends to become completely sexually disengaged after his orgasm, which means that if I didn't force him into a slow enough pace to reach my own orgasm in time, I'm totally SOL and on my own.

All of this has led to an extremely frustrated, uninteresting, unproductive sex life, which (for various reasons) I've let go on for an unspeakable 3 years. Now, during a period of physical separation, I'm trying to redefine, assert and maintain the boundaries and standards I actually want from my sex life. The biggest changes I would like to see are: for DH to overcome foreplay boredom, overcome his masturbation-ingrained habits (touching himself first, disengagement after orgasm,) and eventually learn to make me orgasm by himself. But, when I bring up these boundaries, I'd like the process to be exploratory and a team effort. So, I'm trying to understand the problem better, and also better understand my role in improving the situation. 

How can you even get bored during foreplay? There are probably things I could do better - how do I get DH to communicate with me about these? How do we fight this together?


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Communication is key and is most definitely "a two-way street!" 

Is there any viable reason why you can't communicate your desires to him by either telling him exactly how or even showing him how to do it by placing your hand right on top of his while he is situated at or near the "contact point?" 

And doesn't he enjoy performing oral on you?*


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

On disengagement after orgasm.....

This is a 'very powerful' response in men. For me, for sure.

You literally collapse...cannot move.

I am sure there is a scientific reason for this. After climax, the man collapses on his mate, leaving his Peter Built in her garage for as long as possible.

This, to allow the semen to gravitate, to settle into her deepest recesses. To remain within, intact. Giving the little swimmers a better chance to reach the boiling egg.

Or he may just fall off you and breathe hard....helplessly waiting for the rush to ebb.


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## twoofus (Jun 16, 2017)

OP, what do understand by foreplay: do you think it is exclusively the man preparing the lady for intercourse or mutual stimulation? I ask because you mention that he tends to get himself ready (instead of you?).
My wife tends to do no foreplay on me unless I ask and then its no more than a minute if I'm lucky, complaining that it is tiring. If I was horny before we started, I would lose it before penetration then blames me for lack of libido.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

chronicallyfrustrated said:


> I'm talking from a wife's perspective, but this question isn't just for dudes who might get bored/have overcome boredom during foreplay. All perspectives welcome!
> 
> How do you keep yourself engaged during foreplay?
> 
> ...


Good luck. But selfish lovers rarely change. Set a time frame and if this is important to you then after that time frame if things haven't improved then you have a decisson to make. Stay and be unsatisfied or put your walking boots on.


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## C3156 (Jun 13, 2012)

chronicallyfrustrated said:


> My DH has always been pretty hot/cold when it comes to foreplay. He has a tendency to zone out/look or act bored/get distracted during foreplay. Sometimes I'm "giving too many instructions" or seem too frustrated with his (lack of?) performance, and he quits. Of course, any of these scenarios means that any progress made with the foreplay is totally reversed. If I'm not trying to give instructions or improve the foreplay for myself, the foreplay usually only lasts until HE is ready for penetration, not until I fully am. DH also has a bad habit of reaching for his own genitals instead of mine - that is to say, if he's feeling frisky and wants to engage sexually, he focuses only on his own body.. Which is just completely counter-intuitive. In addition, DH also tends to become completely sexually disengaged after his orgasm, which means that if I didn't force him into a slow enough pace to reach my own orgasm in time, I'm totally SOL and on my own.
> 
> How can you even get bored during foreplay? There are probably things I could do better - how do I get DH to communicate with me about these? How do we fight this together?


As mentioned by others, foreplay is for both parties, not just you. I can remember times where I have stopped sex altogether during foreplay due to the action/inaction of my former spouse. If I get the impression that you are not enjoying the experience (for instance, your frustration), I'm not going to continue. And if you are going to constantly tell me what to do, I'm going to tell you do it yourself. This may sound harsh, but you are making it sound like your husband is a crappy lover since he is not doing it the way _you_ would want. Very selfish in my opinion. Is there anything with regards to sex that you feel he does correctly?

The best sex in my opinion is when both partners are getting a mutually satisfying experience, which doesn't always include orgasm. One thing to remember about men is that we have a rather fragile ego with respect to certain things. If you tell us constantly that we are doing something wrong, we are not going to want to do that something.

Instead of giving your husband instructions during foreplay, have him sit back and you show him what you like. I guarantee you will get a response from him. Make a game of it, you masturbate while he watches and learns what you like. But the rule is if he touches himself, you stop. You can work on two issues at once. 

And would also recommend that you discuss sex outside of the bedroom to avoid any potential performance issues/anxiety during the act. Using neutral language, talk about how much you enjoy sex but you feel frustration that you are not able to reach orgasm on a regular basis. Talk about what you like and makes you feel good, and listen to his responses. Try to avoid negative comments and keep it positive. Offer suggestions not direction. Try to keep it a light and fun conversation. If it makes you frisky talking about it, jump him on the couch. And when things are going the way you like it, give him positive feedback. "Oh baby, that feels amazing", "keep doing that,' and a good moan makes a world of difference.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

chronicallyfrustrated said:


> I'm talking from a wife's perspective, but this question isn't just for dudes who might get bored/have overcome boredom during foreplay. All perspectives welcome!
> 
> How do you keep yourself engaged during foreplay?
> 
> ...


Sounds to me like he watches a fair amount of porn, and has developed some bad habits from it.

I'd hazard a guess and say that he's more ignorant and unaware than he is selfish - though the two are definitely intertwined.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

C3156 said:


> As mentioned by others, foreplay is for both parties, not just you. I can remember times where I have stopped sex altogether during foreplay due to the action/inaction of my former spouse. If I get the impression that you are not enjoying the experience (for instance, your frustration), I'm not going to continue. And if you are going to constantly tell me what to do, I'm going to tell you do it yourself. This may sound harsh, but you are making it sound like your husband is a crappy lover since he is not doing it the way _you_ would want. Very selfish in my opinion. Is there anything with regards to sex that you feel he does correctly?
> 
> The best sex in my opinion is when both partners are getting a mutually satisfying experience, which doesn't always include orgasm. One thing to remember about men is that we have a rather fragile ego with respect to certain things. If you tell us constantly that we are doing something wrong, we are not going to want to do that something.
> 
> ...



Its all in the delivery! Hey babe i really like when you do that and if you did this I"d melt in your mouth. Its so sexy when you do this I can't wait to do it for you. 

Fragile ego .....get over it . If your so sensitive that you can't take alittle constructive criticism as you eatting at the y then your probabaly a selfish lover. I love hearing what she wants and am egar to give it exactly how she wants.

But reciprocation it key!


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Foreplay is for him, too. If he's doing all the prep, and you aren't also getting/keeping him hard, then sure, it will be boring for him and he'll probably lose his erection (or not get one) if the entire focus is on getting you ready. Now, he absolutely should be doing all he can to make things good for you, however long it takes, whatever it takes, and if it takes a long time, he'll probably have to change what he's doing (to avoid getting tired, etc.) perhaps from oral to fingers. Find positions where he can get you ready, and you can stimulate him as well.

Anyway, if you ARE doing this, then the next thing is to have a discussion outside the bedroom. You need to ensure that he knows you are not satisfied, and why, and what you can do about it together. If he doesn't want to talk about it, or won't do what you need, then it may be necessary to stop sex when he tries for penetration when you're not ready. If he's also frustrated, then he'll be motivated to change. Just be sure you're doing your part to keep HIS arousal and interest going, too.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

chronicallyfrustrated said:


> How can you even get bored during foreplay? There are probably things I could do better - how do I get DH to communicate with me about these? How do we fight this together?


What if he is not actually bored? What if he is looking off to the side or closing his eyes to enjoy the sensations of being close to you and aroused. I would only allow yourself to believe he is bored or not enjoying things if you ask, "do you like this" and he indicates otherwise. 

But assuming he is bored and is not the best communicator at knowing what to say/do to turn the moment around and get a spark going. You probably do need a little help. You could each try something like the book "101 nights of great sex" that has scripted ideas for each of you to follow and helps prepare the act of seduction (based mostly on being mysterious with each set of instructions).

https://www.101nights.com

My wife and I tried this book, and while most things in the book can be a little silly, you might run across a few ideas that really create a spark and help the two of you explore something new that will become a regular option on your date nights. 

Regarding fighting about sex... Most of the time fighting about sex is going to be very counterproductive. The big problem is the aspect of listening and feeling as though you are being heard. I would strongly recommend this... Instead of talking/arguing through things in person that is likely to make each of you feel too vulnerable and upset, try sitting down and putting everything into written words. Give him a letter to read and explain that it is important to you. He can read it alone and can have time to calmly digest everything you need to tell him. Ask him to write you a letter back with his feelings and response so that you can have time to calmly digest his side. Exchange letters until the two of you clearly understand how each other feels and have an understanding how to begin helping each other to solve problems in a loving way. One big thing helpful about this is that after you put your own thoughts into words is that it allows you to read it yourself and better understand yourself. You will also see areas of your feelings that are challenging to communicate, and putting that into words for your husband gives you extra time to accurately describe your concerns and ask for his help. 

My wife and I used to have huge arguments that would leave both of us feeling hurt. We would shut down and almost not even speak to each other for days. One day I sat down and described my problems in words, and this really seemed to help. A letter does not yell and scream to get a point across or get upset, it simply tells a story that can be digested at whatever pace is needed by the person reading it. 

Perhaps that is why so many people enjoy Talk About Marriage. We are forced to slow down and put our thoughts and feelings into words to try and help each other.

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## leon2100 (May 13, 2015)

wow... my wife doesn't want a lot of foreplay. After less than 3 minutes, she reach for her vibrator, makes sure I have the lub, lays back spreads and I enter her in a scissors positions. She have her first orgasm in less than 30 seconds and will have as many as 5 before begging me to go deep and finish in her. I tell her when I'm about to cum and she seems to have her biggest orgasm then. 

So maybe the answer is to invest in a few toys.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I think a lot of men disengage after they O. I know that for me it takes a few minutes before I'm really feeling like doing anything more for my wife - though after that I do. I think O's feel different for men and women, though there is no way to know for sure.

Other than that though, I greatly enjoy foreplay, even when I'm just doing things for her. (I agree with other posters that foreplay should be for both). Its almost always my wife who wants me to go on to more intense things. 

OP - does your husband get too aroused during foreplay, or not enough? By "too aroused" I mean that its difficult for him to resist doing more? Or if it isn't enough, do you do thins to him to get him aroused during foreplay?


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Ugg I need a good, engaged and fun passionate time doing foreplay. Makes all the difference. 

Even a slight feeling of being an "inconvenience" to have to actually take the time to please or wanting to rush it before you go ramming it in is an instant turn off. 

Only slightly better is when they just go right for your vagina and start rubbing it. No... just no. Even then I guess it's a slight improvement to him just touching him. 

There should be a desire to explore each others bodys, touch everywhere, get them turned on without even touching the area and then, if she doesn't orgasm with PIV, make her orgasm before you start PIV.

He needs to make that portion part of the whole experience, not pre-game that you want to fast forward through to get to the main event. The actual doing PIV is just *one* part of having sex. 

I had 0 luck fixing this with my ex. He would go through the motions if I complained enough but it doesn't change. I don't know how many actually have any luck fixing lazy and selfish lovers. When dating any man who went right to the vagina or rushed foreplay got dumped and it seems to just be the norm these days for men to be bad at sex. TAM has a high population of good male lovers, this did not translate to the real world. 

I don't believe it can ever be fixed completely. To a point where you can live with it, maybe. From there you just have to decide how much value you put on good sex and what it is worth to you to have.


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## Lurkster (Feb 8, 2016)

If it's not working, try something different. 
It may be a nibble on the neck, a gentle rub to the lower back, or a nibble....to some other parts. 
Something visual maybe. 
Testing is required! Keep notes!


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

chronicallyfrustrated said:


> I'm talking from a wife's perspective, but this question isn't just for dudes who might get bored/have overcome boredom during foreplay. *All perspectives welcome!*
> 
> How do you keep yourself engaged during foreplay?
> 
> ...


I bolded a bunch of stuff in your post, hopefully I will address each one. 
Probably not in order.
How can a person get bored during foreplay? It's a fair question. It really has to do with the nature of the sexual relationship. Many women think that foreplay is the process of seduction, excitement, warm up, etc. but to the partner it can feel like a chore list. your version of foreplay looks a whole lot more fun than ours, but to explain how the process of demonstrating affection and seducing can become a BORING CHORE, let me tell you how it works here. Fore play starts with letting Mrs Nail sleep in 1 or 2 hours after I wake up interested. Then catching her in that dreamy wake up period when she is relaxed enough to be receptive. I can't concentrate on either my own arousal, or on some other work, study, or entertainment, because if I miss the prime moment, she will wake up fully and jump to her list of trivial to dos. When I succeed in catching her waking up just right I start by tentatively rubbing one shoulder If she doesn't roll away or sink back into deep sleep, I proceed to deeper and stronger massage. About one in three times she will either offer the other shoulder, or slide off her night clothes for more massage. I continue to work her shoulders, neck and Hair for about 30 minutes. Hopefully She will move into a cuddle during this. Some times she will give me a foot or hand to work on. If she is in a positive mood She may offer her backside. All of this will eventually lead to one of two things: She will get up and pee, Or her love meter will hit full and she will instantly be ready for sex right now. A quick crotch grab will reveal that I'm nowhere near ready, (that was 3 hours ago) and she will sit there wondering how I can possibly be bored doing Foreplay.
_Edit: I wrote this a few days ago, mostly to illustrate a point that was somehow lost. The process of writing it has stirred up some unpleasant emotions in me. While some people think this story shows what a patient or giving person I am, to me it just makes me look and feel stupid and pathetically needy. This morning (Monday mornings are usually good for her in her work schedule) I started the process only to get smacked and huffed at. Someone here suggested that foreplay was just sex without penetration. If that is true,
I have some pretty weird tastes in non penetrative sex. I must get off on giving service and masochism. I'm open to the possibility.
Anyway I'm quite sorry I wrote it as it has done no one any good and I would just remove the paragraph from the post to hide my shame, but the time is past and there may be someone at some time who will "get it". MN_

Now you said all perspectives were welcome. You may have just changed your mind about that but if you are brave or foolhardy go ahead and proceed.

You mention that you have to constantly give instruction, and that giving instruction helps you get more satisfaction out of sex. Sounds good to me. These are some of the instructions I have tried to offer. What would you like? Would you like A or B? How does this feel? Could you at least make a sound when I hit a good spot? I don't know how your man feels about receiving instruction Because I HAVE NEVER RECEIVED ANY. in fact I'm quite jealous.

Your starting points for working together to solve this sound a lot more like a list of ransom demands. Especially since you separated before starting to build effective intimacy. Honestly I don't see an incentive here for him.

Honestly, If I had a lover like you or your husband that was 
-Attracted to me.
-interested in sex.
-willing to communicate about Sex.
I'd move heaven and earth to be with them. 

Take this perspective however you like, the only advice I have to offer you is that you appreciate what you had, and that you include some incitements with your demands. Right now he is half way to divorce, it is as easy to go forward as back.


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## chronicallyfrustrated (Jul 21, 2017)

Thank you to everyone who responded! I made this post before I fell asleep, and then woke up and immediately headed for work. There's a lot to dig in to here, I'll try to keep peoples same-subject responses clustered together... I've tried to sort them and give them *BOLDED HEADERS*. Yay, organization.

*Am I also giving him foreplay?*



Married but Happy said:


> Foreplay is for him, too. If he's doing all the prep, and you aren't also getting/keeping him hard, then sure, it will be boring for him and he'll probably lose his erection (or not get one) if the entire focus is on getting you ready. Now, he absolutely should be doing all he can to make things good for you, however long it takes, whatever it takes, and if it takes a long time, he'll probably have to change what he's doing (to avoid getting tired, etc.) perhaps from oral to fingers. Find positions where he can get you ready, and you can stimulate him as well.
> 
> Anyway, if you ARE doing this, then the next thing is to have a discussion outside the bedroom. You need to ensure that he knows you are not satisfied, and why, and what you can do about it together. If he doesn't want to talk about it, or won't do what you need, then it may be necessary to stop sex when he tries for penetration when you're not ready. If he's also frustrated, then he'll be motivated to change. Just be sure you're doing your part to keep HIS arousal and interest going, too.





uhtred said:


> ... Other than that though, I greatly enjoy foreplay, even when I'm just doing things for her. (I agree with other posters that foreplay should be for both). Its almost always my wife who wants me to go on to more intense things.
> 
> OP - does your husband get too aroused during foreplay, or not enough? By "too aroused" I mean that its difficult for him to resist doing more? Or if it isn't enough, do you do thins to him to get him aroused during foreplay?





chillymorn69 said:


> Its all in the delivery! Hey babe i really like when you do that and if you did this I"d melt in your mouth. Its so sexy when you do this I can't wait to do it for you.
> 
> Fragile ego .....get over it . If your so sensitive that you can't take alittle constructive criticism as you eatting at the y then your probabaly a selfish lover. I love hearing what she wants and am egar to give it exactly how she wants.
> 
> But reciprocation it key!


Am I giving him foreplay? Not always. Am I offering foreplay? Every single time. As he's become more and more emotionally detached during foreplay, he's become less and less interested in all foreplay - giving or receiving. Traditionally, giving him foreplay has been my foreplay. Such as, edge him/tease him, try a new technique or toy on him, or give hand job + masturbate myself. I also love to give blow jobs, especially gaggy deep throat ones that would probably make most other people puke. That's one of my #1 turn ons. But, DH likes these things less and less, and even claims he's never enjoyed blow jobs (despite the fact I can remember many that he did like, but... okay, sure?).
@arbitrator I lost your quote somehow, but to answer you: DH says he does enjoy giving me oral, but is willing to actually do it (asked or unprompted) extremely rarely. He's not very good at it, probably because it only happens a handful of times per year. He does a little too much sucking/biting, and lacks consistency in his technique... which is where instruction comes in, usually in asking him to be more gentle, or more consistent, or both. He doesn't catch the difference between "ooh" and "ow!" easily, so I usually have to be verbal with a "Please don't _____ so much/as hard, that hurts." Then, I'm "giving too many instructions," and begin to feel like @chillymorn69 and wonder why he can't set his ego aside and learn what I like. 

Our most recent sexual encounter was actually DH initiating oral sex, the first time in probably over a year. I was honestly not having that great of a time. I offered 69, which DH refused, and then offered other mutual foreplay, which DH also refused. In the end, neither of us had an orgasm, and while I think DH felt emotionally invigorated after the encounter, I just felt underwhelmed and frustrated. @uhtred, I would say not aroused enough, but also I'm clearly wanting reciprocate, and it seems like DH doesn't want me to? Which is.. I don't.. I don't get it. 
@badsanta - I somehow lost your quote too, but to answer you: I wish it was being lost in the sensations of foreplay and arousal, but when he discuss later, DH admits and apologizes for struggling with boredom/distraction. I'm low-key wondering if he's stopped accepting as much foreplay from me because he's bored with that, too. It's not clear, at this time. DH is generally not very verbally communicative, I could write him letters all day long, but he'll never write back. We do a lot better with controlled, in person conversations. Thanks for the book suggestion - I'll certainly check it out.

*Have we explored toys, kinks, etc?*



leon2100 said:


> wow... my wife doesn't want a lot of foreplay. After less than 3 minutes, she reach for her vibrator, makes sure I have the lub, lays back spreads and I enter her in a scissors positions. She have her first orgasm in less than 30 seconds and will have as many as 5 before begging me to go deep and finish in her. I tell her when I'm about to cum and she seems to have her biggest orgasm then.
> 
> So maybe the answer is to invest in a few toys.


Dang, son. I wish anyone could play me like a fiddle like that. I wouldn't say I have difficulty reaching orgasm, as I can usually do myself in 12-15 minutes with hands, shower head, vibrator (unless it's too much stimulation,) dildo, etc. I can also go multiple times in a row, which I used to make a personal game of in my single days. But, no one else has been able to make me orgasm, either due to my own anxiety or due to my own inability to effectively communicate what feels good and get satisfying feedback from partners. It... kinda really sucks. 

We've made a strong investment in toys - dildos, double ended dildos, vibrators, **** rings, special lube, etc. I was investing in high quality sex toys before I even met my husband. We've also explored kinks - his and mine - with some success. However, along with being disengaged from foreplay in general, DH is also disengaged from playing a part in any of my kinks, which is additionally frustrating. 

*General male disengagement after orgasm vs. My DH's disengagement, and how I think they differ*



uhtred said:


> I think a lot of men disengage after they O. I know that for me it takes a few minutes before I'm really feeling like doing anything more for my wife - though after that I do. I think O's feel different for men and women, though there is no way to know for sure...


 @uhtred, but also @SunCMars and @alexm

I totally get male exhaustion after orgasm - the desire to flop over and rest. DH's disengagement after orgasm isn't 5-10 minutes of resting in "Wow, that was amazing" land followed by cuddling or eye gazing or helping with a partner's orgasm, or even just desperately trying to cool off under the ceiling fan - it used to be, and that was extremely emotionally satisfying. Instead, he goes from exhaustion to "Man, I wonder when Nintendo is going to make another Super Smash Brother's game," or "I could really go for a hot pocket right about now." This is why I would refer to it as a potential masturbatory bad habit. It's more like DH totally sets aside the fact he just had sex, and I'm not even there anymore, no matter where I was at in my process.

DH was raised in a "strict" christian household - and I say "strict" because consistency was a huge problem in his family. Simplified: some siblings got punished for Behavior A, and for other siblings expressing Behavior A, parents would let it slide/give up enforcement. DH was raised with a lot of shame around sexuality and arousal, which I know he's been working through over time, but which may have helped to establish and reinforce an emotional habit of "put the 'bad thing' you just did out of your mind asap to avoid shame/guilt/etc." I'm totally grasping at straws here, though, because sexual shame is not something DH is very capable of discussing. 

DH does watch a lot of porn, which by itself doesn't bother me. I also watch porn. I invite DH to watch with me, as I really enjoy mutual masturbation. DH says he likes this and wants to watch porn together/share kinks this way, but in the moment DH doesn't usually agree to engage with this, kind of like the oral sex situation. Same thing with sexting or sending pictures back and forth - I want to, and DH says he wants to, but when it happens, DH doesn't engage. 

He's hot and cold on a lot of things, not just staying emotionally engaged after orgasm.

*Ransom Demands*



Mr. Nail said:


> Your starting points for working together to solve this sound a lot more like a list of ransom demands.


The big difference between your situation and DH's situation is that DH isn't patient and doesn't typically initiate. DH is much more likely to satisfy his morning boner with porn (or any boner, tbh) than wait for the ideal time to initiate with me. I'm not inferring his boredom from a lack of apparent arousal, I'm inferring it from refusing eye contact/sighing or groaning/stopping entirely, and then discussing it later in direct conversation around DH's "I'm sorry I get bored sometimes.." 

I'm fully aware of how lopsided my list is, that's one of my main points of frustration. It's one of the main reasons why I'm here. It's not as if we haven't had the "let's improve our sex lives" conversation dozens of times over the years. DH doesn't put forward input. At best, he picks from a list of my suggestions, and then fails to follow through. Best I can figure, he knows he wants something better too, but he has absolutely no idea what that looks like for him. Or, he's always thought things were fine (despite my assertions to the contrary,) and isn't interested in changing anything anyways. 


I think that's everything?

Thanks again to everyone who has responded - I'm a strong external processor, and I appreciate the sounding board!


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

I really think you understand my position. Thanks for reading it all.

I had a room mate who liked to play racket ball and chess. he had a killer serve that was un returnable and a memorized set of chess moves. What he couldn't understand is why I and everyone else who had played more than once wouldn't play those games with him. It was no Fun. You didn't have a chance to win. I wonder if your Man has resigned himself to never really being able to satisfy you any more. It doesn't sound like it is much fun for him.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

I'd ask him to put a stop to his MBing until you figure all this out. He has no motivation if he can just do it himself easier. 

Then maybe pick up some dice games or card games to play to re-introduce foreplay in a fun way where he won't get bored? 

Or maybe there's some kind of app game?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

chronicallyfrustrated said:


> Thank you to everyone who responded!
> 
> DH does watch a lot of porn, which by itself doesn't bother me. I also watch porn. I invite DH to watch with me, as I really enjoy mutual masturbation. DH says he likes this and wants to watch porn together/share kinks this way, but in the moment DH doesn't usually agree to engage with this, kind of like the oral sex situation. Same thing with sexting or sending pictures back and forth - I want to, and DH says he wants to, but when it happens, DH doesn't engage.
> 
> ...


This is the danger of porn. You get compared to those people who are in those videos. And you especially pay attention to those scenes that turn you on.

The men and women seem very turned on "in the moment". But what about before or after the filming. 

No man or women can compete with a filmed fantasy. 

All porn does is show you how lousy your love life is. How lousy your spouse is at love making. 

Which is a lie, but repeated use of porn inures one to real flesh and blood activities in your own bedroom. And porn is indifferent....no foreplay, no begging. Just get it done. Sad, real sad. 

WE can never go back to simpler times. Sigh.


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## chronicallyfrustrated (Jul 21, 2017)

Mr. Nail said:


> I really think you understand my position. Thanks for reading it all.
> 
> I had a room mate who liked to play racket ball and chess. he had a killer serve that was un returnable and a memorized set of chess moves. What he couldn't understand is why I and everyone else who had played more than once wouldn't play those games with him. It was no Fun. You didn't have a chance to win. I wonder if your Man has resigned himself to never really being able to satisfy you any more. It doesn't sound like it is much fun for him.


It sounds like your friend wasn't interested in teaching his friends how to play at his level, or good at finding a partner who could play at his level.

It's true that it's not much fun when your partner keeps stopping you to let you know what you are doing (biting, sucking, fingering too hard, going in dry, etc) is painful. I can see how that is not fun. I can also see how feedback loops are important - my choices are to bite the pillow and let DH _think_ he is doing well, which is a disservice to myself and to him OR communicate when something is painful and ask for changes or for play to stop. I would feel differently if I was being harsh or personal ("You're really bad a this" (attacks self esteem) - "You only hurt me" (unfair generalization) - "Are you even paying attention?" (accusatory) ). Instead, I'm trying to teach and guide, and to clarify my boundaries. "This activity isn't comfortable for me," or "Specific Action A pinches/bruises, and that keeps me from getting more aroused/turns me off," or "I really love it when XYZ." 

DH and I spoke for a couple of hours about this tonight, and DH does admit to experiencing a sense of defeat. As in, if you're not good at something, why even try to do it at all? But, he also apologized, and said he now sees that stance as emotionally immature, and wants to make a change.

We also spoke a bit about why we don't repeat the good things we've enjoyed, and DH attributed that to emotional immaturity as well. With separation, he's touching on a lot of self-motivation points and self-care points that he hasn't before. Such as, "I enjoy having a clean bedroom, and I should clean my space more often." or "I don't enjoy going to/spending money at the dentist, so I should brush and floss more often." Etc. According to DH, the same self-motivation hurdles that keep him from self-care are in the way when it comes to sexual creativity, and he's working to break these down.

(This is what separation has provided for us, by the way. We're recovering from co-dependency, and we are not - as you previously suggested - half way to divorce. We're actually a lot more healthily emotionally connected than we were 4 months ago, when we were frustrated and resentful of each other, and living life practically on top of each other.)



notmyrealname4 said:


> Foreplay is really non-penetrative sex. It's not a separate thing from sex.
> 
> If someone doesn't want to have foreplay with you, then they aren't all that horny.
> 
> ...


To be very frank, DH's porn preferences center around a handful of very specific, very impossible fetishes. It's private for him and I respect that, so I won't extrapolate here, but I will clarify that the majority of his porn is drawn, not photographed or filmed. I don't experience insecurity or concern that I somehow won't meet his expectations, and I have very rarely felt that he wasn't physically attracted to me. Much of our sexual bumps in the road have been centered on concerns that he's _only_ physically attracted to me, and not emotionally comfortable with/attracted to me. 

In addition, it's not as if we haven't had engaging and successful foreplay previously in our marriage. We're totally capable of amazing foreplay, and amazing sex. 

His fetish is also not really my fetish, at least as far as the porn of it goes, so no, we wouldn't typically watch/look at the kind of porn he'd look at on his own. From my side, my fetishes fall under the BSDM umbrella, and so I usually look for porn involving physical or emotional humiliation, and prefer videos from reputable sources like Kink.com where there is a pre-interview and typically post-interview/aftercare presented. DH is not very interested in the psychological aspects of BSDM like I am, but we do find common ground on the ideas of vulnerability and helplessness. But, lots of Kink.com material is out of his ballpark, so no, we wouldn't typically watch/look at the kind of porn I'd look at on my own either.

But, when your DH has asked me to share some of my porn with him, or expresses that he wants to share some of his porn with me, I'm interested/thrilled. It's not as if I'm forcing myself into his fantasy bubble - he expressed he wants this. It's also not as if I'm asking him to share secrets, as I'm fully aware of what to expect from the porn he shares, and fully aware what kinds of porn he looks at but is unlikely to share. Again, DH lacks follow through. He rarely shares anything with me, despite explaining how he wants to, and he rarely comments on anything I share with him. DH and I spoke about this a bit tonight, and he feels this also falls under self-motivation hurdles. It's something he wants to do, enjoys and sees benefits from, but actually engaging in the process is difficult/problematic/anxiety inducing for him.



SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I'd ask him to put a stop to his MBing until you figure all this out. He has no motivation if he can just do it himself easier.


I honestly suspect DH's masturbation is a contributor to our troubles. But, I'm not DH's mom, and it's not my job to tell him weather or not he can masturbate, and what he can or can't masturbate to. Attempts to police each other like that is what led to co-dependency, stunting of emotional maturity, resentment and eventually separation. Even if I think it might be an issue, it's DH's issue to confront and deal with on his own. I can make my boundaries clear, and say what I want from our sex life, but if/when/how DH meets obligations on his side of the relationship is ultimately up to him. In other words, I'm happy to suggest masturbation is something he examine in this process (and have, but DH doesn't have a response yet,) but I'm not going to tell him to quit masturbating. I feel that would be really unfair, especially since I totally wouldn't stop/would feel resentful if I were asked or told not to.

And, I think this also ties back into emotional maturity in a different way. Asserting "You are not to masturbate, I am your only sexual outlet" is controlling. The assumption that, if he is masturbating, he has no motivation to engage with me sexually completely disenfranchises any love, passion or attraction he does feel for me. Obviously he has some motivation, even if he can do it himself easier, otherwise, why the heck would he seek sexual partners and/or choose to marry me to begin with? He would have just stayed a single wanker forever.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

chronicallyfrustrated said:


> @badsanta - I somehow lost your quote too, but to answer you: I wish it was being lost in the sensations of foreplay and arousal, but when he discuss later, DH admits and apologizes for struggling with boredom/distraction. I'm low-key wondering if he's stopped accepting as much foreplay from me because he's bored with that, too. It's not clear, at this time. *DH is generally not very verbally communicative,* I could write him letters all day long, but he'll never write back. We do a lot better with controlled, in person conversations. Thanks for the book suggestion - I'll certainly check it out.


*Try working on ways to communicate better sexually. *

Awkwardly sexual communication within marriage does not tend to play by the rules and seems to benefit from some form of awkward conflict, but only if it can be managed playfully. Perhaps claim that you are having extremely intense sexual dreams that make you feel embarrassed because it made you wet your pants. Refuse to discuss anything further about it. Tell him that if he guesses correctly that you will let him know... Encourage him to guess as a way to fish for sexual ideas floating around in his mind. If he guesses something that would be fun for the two of you to try then have fun with that idea, and consider that a lesson in how to communicate better with your husband on sexual topics! Learning to use playful forms of awkwardly sexual conflict like refusing to talk about made up sexual dreams...

Regards,
Badsanta


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