# what boundaries to set and the consequences of failing



## Bremik (Feb 6, 2009)

For the sake of argument from previous posts I would like to direct this to people that have dealt with a spouse with poor boundaries or have survived an EA or an affair- all with success in the end.

What did you do to rebuild the trust? There are always going to be wolves lurking so what boundaries can be set and how do I get convinced those boundaries are being enforced? I have thought of things like random swap phones for the day - like before she leaves for work today I just say we swap phones today so I would have her phone all day with no prior warning. Somehow she is responsible with telling me who she is with- especially if with opposite sex- and what they are doing with no " I forgot to tell you" as an excuse.

I have looked at the polygraph approach as a good starting point but from reading here there seems to be many who say don't do it. So don't know if it should be used or not. I looked it up around here and the cost would be $450 plus rental of a room- which would be a lot for us.

I have more thoughts but could add those as people respond. My wife acknowledges that I have every reason to be suspicious based on everything that has happened. She doesn't see the current co-worker as a threat but I do. I am at the point that once we set up the protocol/boundaries, separation or divorce have to be a consequence of breaking the boundaries.

Also, I have set up ways to at least do some monitoring and can use that to confirm things I am told.


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## NewPhoenix5 (Dec 4, 2015)

bremik,

My wife had an adulterous affair. Of course, adultery is a boundary with the possible (if not likely) consequence of divorce.

If you find that she has done things that make you suspicious of an affair, I strongly recommend good boundaries.

My boundaries, with her having had an affair are:

Conditions for NP5 to Reconcile with WW
1)	Full disclosure of affair from start to finish 
2)	Produce all documents on the affair 
3)	No more lies, 100% truth, no lies of omission

In order to heal and forgive I need to know what happened. Without this I cannot forgive you and reconcile with you. If you do not answer my questions and disclose fully the extent of the affair, we need to separate. 

4)	No Contact with OM and any contact from him goes straight to me for joint response
Failure to maintain No Contact will result in our divorce. I have given you far too many chances and you have ignored all of them. This is your last chance.

5)	Accountability for your whereabouts – who, what, when, where and responsible chaperones are required when I think it necessary

If you don’t inform me, I will let you know how you didn’t keep me informed. If you repeatedly and deliberately do not keep me informed, I will ask you to leave.

6)	OK to have access to investigate and check up 24/7. 

As you are not having an affair anymore, you should not be keeping secrets and you should not have anything to hide. I need to have accountability in order for us to reconcile and regain trust.

7)	Go to Marriage Counseling and Individual Counseling.

You have issues you need to work on. Those issues drove you to decide to have an affair. Without being worked on, those issues will resurface and may cause you to decide to have another affair or restart the affair. You must get them worked on. Without help we cannot reconcile and need to separate.

8)	Destroy letters, pictures, tokens of love / commitment / remembrance of your affair with OM. Delete him from this house and family. 

I will not have you pining after OM the rest of our lives. You may think he is a friend, but he is someone who convinced you to have an affair, greatly damaged your family and possibly will have caused a divorce. I don’t think a friend is one that would tempt you to destroy your family. Remove him entirely from your life and that of your family. Continuing to hold on to his things, his mementos, and of him will be a continuance of the affair.

9)	Work on being remorseful or at least doing what a remorseful spouse would do.

Try your best to be a successful rebuilder as described in the book, “How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair”.

Now having laid down those consequences, she continued the affair deep underground. The affair ended and she broke off contact. Months later, under a polygraph which she failed, she admitted to breaking all of the above boundaries.

I had questions about inconsistencies in her admissions. A second polygraph ensued and she admitted to much more -- double the length of the affair and more boundary violations including a break in NC a few weeks before the second polygraph.

I strongly recommend a polygraph. Without it I would have been driven insane with her lies and denials. It finally, for her, forced the truth out.

She has, for 2 months now, been following the boundaries.

Now I did not follow through on consequences that I said I would do. I say that is OK. You can give a stay of execution if you like. You are in charge of the boundaries. But at least they know about them and you can check up on it.

As far as checking up.

Swapping phones is fine. A deep underground affair is immune to tricks like that. A small GPS in her car would help too. Voice activated recorder velcroed to her car seat bottom, or by her favorite chair is good. Keylogger on the computer is good. RecoverIt by Brickhouse will undelete text messages deleted on an iPhone, but you will need the password.

But in my view, nothing beats a polygraph.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

I am not in reconciliation, my husband won't talk about it at this point but says he "can't see the future". Since I want him in my future - I have instituted the following rules upon myself.

Full disclosure

No contact with OM

Zero to little contact with our friend circle who'd known about the affair. (I waffle on this a bit, because I still believe some of them just didn't want to hurt my husband) But 95% of them ARE effectively gone.

Full transparancy. You want to check my Fb, here's my password, you want to check my texts, here's my phone, you want to check all other forms of social media, here are my logins and passwords.

Full access to email. Check it anytime you like. 

I leave my phone laying around all the time. I'll go take a bath for an hour and leave it sitting right by him.

Find my iPhone app is installed on my phone and left on AT ALL TIMES.

If I say I'm going to be somewhere, that's the only place I go. If there is a change of plans, I let him know.

One that wasn't laid out but I did anyway, I was out with coworkers last week and my phone died. I left immediately so I could put my phone on my car charger and be accessible.

I only do things with females. If there are going to be males there (as in the case of my coworkers) I make sure they are "safe" - engaged or married long term and not anyone who has ever been inappropriate to me or disrespected my marriage.

No "selfies" on social media that attract male attention. Only pictures and/or statuses that involve my kids or that I'm not in any way, shape or form inappropriately clothes.

Stop all attention seeking behavior. No more talking to strangers at gas stations, no more accepting friend requests from men I don't know very well.

Deletion of about 100 people from Fb and social media - 98 of them male.

Any inappropriate contact made by anyone is screenshotted and sent directly to my husband.

And last, but biggest for me, work on my boundaries. How I allow people to approach and interact with me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Imovedforthis (Dec 18, 2015)

Following mainly for advice... 

My husband has poor boundary issues with females that he works with. He is very flirtatious with them and then will lie about any personal contact with them. 

Kinda what i'm here for... figure out what to do bc I hate living like this.. constant wonder. 

I think we are going to start with the polygraph sometime in the next 2 months. I have to at least try that as a last resort. 

As far as phones, gps and all that stuff.. it can easily be tricked with or somehow they will get around it. 

I just go intuition for now... is he telling me things I need to know, letting me know about all appts and ALL days he takes call at work on the weekends. 

I track his work hours and he has to provide me a timesheet every 2 weeks. That so far has eliminated a few panic attacks on myself when my hubby gets called into work at 3 am and I don't really know if that's where he is. 

I feel he has a burner phone which can be stored at locker at his work- so no luck on that.


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

To me the boundaries are not the issue. You set them and both agree on them. Everyone's boundaries are going to be a little bit different but basically putting yourself in any situation your significant other would find inappropriate. Intentionally choosing to put yourself in situations that lead emotional attachment (arranging your day to bump into someone alot, "coincidentally" going to the same lunch spot, and dishonestly finding ways to meet someone your significant other would not approve of. It is mostly common sense and does not really have to be spelled out. But the problem is enforcement of those boundaries.
Waywards tend to use the very words that should build confidence in a relationship to make you believe breaking boundaries is okay. 
Like this situation: "Why do you have 300 messages last week from that girl at your work?" she askes
"It's not a big deal don't you TRUST me? We have been together how long?"

We as loving trusting members in a marriage hear those words and start second guessing our resolve rather than digging in. Marriages should not have secrets if they do the well tends to get poisoned. It is up to the nonwawards to stay vigilant, and take action. Otherwise EA's and PA's can often just surprise us even though we really knew something was going on.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

NewPhoenix5 said:


> bremik,
> 
> My wife had an adulterous affair. Of course, adultery is a boundary with the possible (if not likely) consequence of divorce.
> 
> ...



I think you give some good examples of how to set the potential for R to occur, but I do not agree with setting boundaries with consequences and then not enforcing them. 

What good are conditions for R if they have no follow-thru. The only thing this does is to clearly establish in the waywards mind that the BS will never leave, will always forgive and that their affair really isn't all that wrong. Not following thru on established consequences would also likely lead to a decrease in credibility and respect of the BS which will again only facilitate the affair or enable future affairs.

All your wife needs to do now is figure out how to beat a polygraph and she is basically home free to keep banging whoever she feels like on the side... although- you wouldn't actually leave her anyway so I guess it doesn't really matter.

Not trying to beat you up NP5. Just adding another point of view.

Best 
WD


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

workindad said:


> I think you give some good examples of how to set the potential for R to occur, but I do not agree with setting boundaries with consequences and then not enforcing them.
> 
> What good are conditions for R if they have no follow-thru. The only thing this does is to clearly establish in the waywards mind that the BS will never leave, will always forgive and that their affair really isn't all that wrong. Not following thru on established consequences would also likely lead to a decrease in credibility and respect of the BS which will again only facilitate the affair or enable future affairs.
> 
> ...


This is spot on. if the spouse feels there will never be any consequences then words are meaningless. That's why full exposure up front says so much.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

bremik said:


> For the sake of argument from previous posts I would like to direct this to people that have dealt with a spouse with poor boundaries or have survived an EA or an affair- all with success in the end.
> 
> What did you do to rebuild the trust? There are always going to be wolves lurking so what boundaries can be set and how do I get convinced those boundaries are being enforced? I have thought of things like random swap phones for the day - like before she leaves for work today I just say we swap phones today so I would have her phone all day with no prior warning. Somehow she is responsible with telling me who she is with- especially if with opposite sex- and what they are doing with no " I forgot to tell you" as an excuse.
> 
> ...


I used to have terrible boundary issues. I found Boundaries by Henry Cloud helpful--if you're not Christian, it may be a little grating, as he writes it from a Christian perspective. I still found it damn useful. It's not really about dealing with affairs as much as dealing with setting healthy boundaries in general.

Bremik, my perspective is the BS can only encourage the WS to repair the damaged trust. The WS has to take the actions to build up the walls they tore down. What you can do is set boundaries of what is and is not acceptable behavior to you; with consequences for violating those boundaries.

If you do set boundaries--and you should in every relationship--you MUST stick to them and enforce the forewarned consequences. If you don't, your significant other will view you as weak and contemptible, and they will only continue to violate more and more boundaries.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

As badbane suggested, the post affair boundaries are the simplest part of the equation. For me, I saw them more as a needed consequence to her, rather than as a method to prevent her from cheating again.

The monitoring, which you say you are doing, is the better approach to reducing the chance of the latter; both openly and without her knowledge. 

After a time, as she proves herself and builds your trust, you will likely find the monitoring tedious and no longer necessary. At some point you will surely think to yourself - "Enough, if she's going to cheat again, she's going to cheat. I've learned enough through this that I'll know next time".

That said, if you were like me and allowed liberal boundaries pre-affair; those should change forever. Things like GNO's, opposite sex friends, unaccounted for time. Those are for spouses who have never shown they couldn't be trusted.

As for the consequences of breaking those boundaries; there is only one that is effective; and you should have already drawn that line in the sand.


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## Bremik (Feb 6, 2009)

Thanks for the responses! I had given up on getting any so haven't checked back on that post. We did sit down and talk and I went all the way back to the early part of our marriage and told her my perspective on how I have viewed what has happened over the years and how we have gotten to the point of me not being able to trust her around male coworkers/ friends or just general lack of trust in her telling me important things. She seems extremely remorseful and in spite of everything I have found over the years and recently there has never been a definite time that she crossed the line. She has broken all kinds of boundaries but seemed to be very ignorant about possible consequences.

I did get the book Not Just Friends and we both are going through it. I am optimistic trust will come back. As far as the monitoring everything she has said has been legit. She is where she is supposed to be when she needs to be. That has been the biggest stumbling block for me- I honestly think she is that naive as to really not thinking of the consequences to her actions. We just have to restart the trust process is all I know. 

I know my story leaves me wide open to critics but I guess this is the only way I know to handle it.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Pretty sure, 99%, that your wife has been cheating right in front of you for your entire relationship until maybe recently.

She ever come clean?

You two honestly look like a bad combo.

A serial cheater with a fairly passive enabler.

Maybe you have more co-dependency going on than real love.

Love does not resemble what has been happening for your entire relationship.

Your prying may have made her screwing around less than convenient and she has eventually slowed down.

I guess if you like what you have then no problem. 

You do not have a faithful wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

ConanHub said:


> Pretty sure, 99%, that your wife has been cheating right in front of you for your entire relationship until maybe recently.
> 
> She ever come clean?
> 
> ...



I especially agree with the bolded part - another possibility is that she has just gotten better at hiding it with experience.


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## Bremik (Feb 6, 2009)

Conan no she has never "come clean" and I have never found anything that would say she has had a PA. When I was able to pull up deleted texts I never found anything bad. Some work chatter, general chit chat etc. I have GPS on her and everything she says concerning where she is at is true. I think the coworker is more interested than she thinks he is.

The texting has completely stopped. There never were any phone calls. Yes I get the idea of a burner phone but why do traceable texts on our service if you have a burner phone? If she was keeping that a secret why not keep the texts a secret?
Therein is my conflict- I do have more than one instance of my wife making bad decisions/boundaries but I have 0 physical proof of an affair. She makes horrible money decisions all the time- does that make her a crook? I am not trying to deny the possibility of an affair, I just need proof.

Can someone give me ideas of how else they could communicate and ways to check it? There company is very good about monitoring sexism/inappropriate comments etc. so I really doubt they would communicate via company emails. So, how else could they do it with their phones? The GPS has been huge for me and I have wanted to do a VAR but haven't yet- mostly because the GPS verifies she is where she is supposed to be.

I realize I look passive or foolish but the majority of people that I have followed here always comment how the rest of the marriage changes- less/no sex, less talking, distant etc. My wife has never done that and that is causing the benefit of the doubt. All I can come up with is to spell it out that this is why I don't trust you and this is what you must do to make it right. I did point out where there aren't answers to questions, and why I should leave. 

So by all means ask tough questions, give me more ideas. I don't know- I just know without definite proof I can't convict and maybe she has won because of that. Thanks for responding


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

I let my wife delete my fb acct. She has my yahoo email on her phone she can check whenever. I also leave my phone wherever I set it. If she asks me who I'm texting I stop and show her on the spot. No just a second, right there right then. My phone doesn't have a password. I go to work and come home. If I stop for car parts etc. I've already told her as she puts money on my card. She has the bank info so she can see every time I use my card. I don't know how I can be anymore transparent.


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## Bremik (Feb 6, 2009)

It takes my wife an hour to get home. Between that knowledge and GPS it doesn't leave much room for anything else. Tho I know where there is a will there is a way


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

bremik said:


> Can someone give me ideas of how else they could communicate and ways to check it? There company is very good about monitoring sexism/inappropriate comments etc. so I really doubt they would communicate via company emails. So, how else could they do it with their phones?


There are at least a dozen "throw away" phone apps out there now.

They load the app in less then a minute. Message back and forth all they want. Then uninstall the app.

It's the newest, oldest trick in the book.

Check the phones stored data for app's that aren't currently loaded on that phone. I think snap chat is one of the more common brands that cheaters like to use. However, I may have misquoted the name.

I'm sure other posters could list at least 4, or 5 that you could look for.


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## Bremik (Feb 6, 2009)

unfortunately my daughter uses her phone for snapchat- so I know thats on there. But I will look and see what I can find. Thanks!


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

I told my XW she needed to:

- Come clean on all affairs, known and unknown to me. 
- Go no contact with any prior AP.
- Don't hide contact with other men or flirt with them. 

Consequences were simple, we divorce. She agreed. A year later we separated and divorced. She deleted texts from a guy she volunteered with. 

At first she played it off as I was the bad guy, destroying our marriage over some deleted texts. But within days the rest of the truth came out. They had been in an ongoing affair lasting over 2 years. 

Didn't really matter, the deleted texts were enough to prove to me she didn't respect our marriage the same way I did and I didn't want to live my life looking over my shoulder like that. Getting the rest of the story was nice, but even if the truth hadn't come out, I would have still followed through on the divorce. The reason the truth came out was she understood that.


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## Bremik (Feb 6, 2009)

Does anyone know if there is a way to interpret data usage info on cell providers website? It shows times that data was used and how much. There are some 1-2 a.m. times that have some of highest data usage and was wondering if snap chat or anything like that would show up that way?


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

bremik said:


> Does anyone know if there is a way to interpret data usage info on cell providers website? It shows times that data was used and how much. There are some 1-2 a.m. times that have some of highest data usage and was wondering if snap chat or anything like that would show up that way?



Anything that isn't a text message or phone call would show up as data. Unless the phone is on a wifi network, then all data will route that way and not show on the bill.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

I have friend who had an affair. Her husband was demanding, dominant, and picky. From many onlooker's perspective she tolerated a lot and ultimately broke. There are different scenarios for infidelity and sometimes this occurs through no fault of the victim. If there is mutual fault, there needs to be some accountability on both sides, I will allow you access to my Facebook and schedule, but I can express my dissatisfaction if you attempt to dominate or dictate. I think healthy communication and problem-solving needs to be restored.


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## Bremik (Feb 6, 2009)

Ok I have a new twist/update. I had my wife's phone and was looking at it today. I found that she has indeed been emailing the coworker- want to make clear they would email due to work it is just that the emails aren't 100% work that bothers me. She got an email over a weekend about a football game not a text. So though it wasn't bad in terms of content I guess I feel it shows they have switched how they communicate. There was another round of emails last week early but they quit because his dad is in hospital and he was going to be there- got that off email. Other emails did have work content but also personal to the extent of - hope you made it in ok (snowing that day), Good morning sunshine, I am really sorry I didn't mean to ignore you yesterday (in regards to an email sent). Also there had been some texts but not in type of language like in email. For whatever it's worth she did respond to him on the snow day "my wonderful husband let me take his truck in to work since it has 4 wheel drive"- makes it seem she tried to get my name in?

So here's the question- what now? Though nothing bad was found I think it is still too personal in nature. I really need a smoking gun but feel its just a loaded gun at this point. To me its clear they have just switched the means in which they communicate and I can only find emails they have done last week- which concerns me others have been erased. I guess I feel if he is checking up on her ride to work then communication must still be pretty regular. It is really pushing boundaries I think. So what or how do I monitor things now? Was thinking since they haven't communicated since Tuesday - at least I don't think they have- Tomorrow should be interesting. I was thinking of swapping phones with her unannounced tomorrow morning and getting pretty serious about a VAR. Or is this a deal breaker and I need to have a harder more direct response to her? 

If I bring it up it only will change what they do but it I say get out on something I haven't really found a lot on yet I could be overreacting or at least not presenting enough evidence to react to. I guess I need suggestions of whether to respond or keep digging. With everything that has happened is this enough to make decisive action?


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

Are they communicating through work email?
If they know they are being monitored by work, that explains the benign messages.....which sound fake to me, especially your wife's "my wonderful husband....." line!! VAR time!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

Var in her care. 

Any way you can surprise her for lunch one day? If she is having an affair, they may only be communicating in person, and the emails are innocuous in nature, but intended to check location and ability to meet. 

What time did he send the 'hope you make it in okay' message? Was it before lunch? The fact he had to ask makes me think they don't work in close proximity and he wanted to check that she was in before moving to her location.

Don't confront with what you have. Way to easy to weasel out of, and it would reveal your source. But if you set the clear boundary that she should no longer communicate with this guy, then you have every reason to be concerned. The best way to proceed would be to increase surveillance. Toby's VAR recommendation is a good one. Dropping by work to surprise her for lunch could reveal a lot to you. Pay attention to how she dresses for work. Is there a pattern to which days she dresses for attention? If she puts on grannie panties, probably not the right day to surprise her. But if she wears her sexiest underclothing on a particular day of the week, then that's the day you go.

Or hire a PI, a good one will find out pretty quick what's going on.

It sucks to have the suspicions you have. I know, I lived that too for entirely too long. But you're not overly suspicious. Your problem is your wife has poor boundaries with the opposite sex and no respect for how that affects you. Maybe she isn't sleeping with this guy, but her patterns of contact put her at high risk to have an affair, if it hasn't in fact gone that far yet.


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## Bremik (Feb 6, 2009)

When he checked on her it was about 9:30 in the morning. He works across the road from her so no it wouldn't be easy for him to know when she is in.

I will take advice and work on getting VAR in. I do try to keep track using GPS. 

Thanks for the input!


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

B, just poly this woman and stop all this crap.

Why police this grown as woman when she KNOW how you feel.


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## Bremik (Feb 6, 2009)

I don't have the money to do a polygraph and more importantly there is always a lingering doubt with a polygraph.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

I just love how you make excuses for her.

You would have us believe she is the classic dizzy blonde, and not a grown woman holding down a responsible job that require some travel.

Any woman from a young age knows when a guy has the hots for her.
So keep telling yourself she just don't see it.

Now it's 1/2 AM high data usage.
Where was you when it was being used??
She could have been on face book chatting or just shopping online.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

bremik said:


> Ok I have a new twist/update. I had my wife's phone and was looking at it today. I found that she has indeed been emailing the coworker- want to make clear they would email due to work it is just that the emails aren't 100% work that bothers me. She got an email over a weekend about a football game not a text. So though it wasn't bad in terms of content I guess I feel it shows they have switched how they communicate. There was another round of emails last week early but they quit because his dad is in hospital and he was going to be there- got that off email. Other emails did have work content but also personal to the extent of - hope you made it in ok (snowing that day), Good morning sunshine, I am really sorry I didn't mean to ignore you yesterday (in regards to an email sent). Also there had been some texts but not in type of language like in email. For whatever it's worth she did respond to him on the snow day "my wonderful husband let me take his truck in to work since it has 4 wheel drive"- makes it seem she tried to get my name in?
> 
> So here's the question- what now?


"Wife, I thought we had an understanding. I will NOT stay in a marriage in which my wife feels it's ok to discuss ANYthing outside of work comments with a male coworker. If you want to carry on such conversations, I won't and can't stop you. But I'm letting you know that I will not stay in this marriage if you feel you have to have that in your life, given our history. This is the last time I'm going to bring this up. Your next steps will determine mine."


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## Bremik (Feb 6, 2009)

I understand your position and would say the same thing to someone else. However, when you have a wife who continually spends money without paying attention to bank balances, or doesn't check oil in a car she knows needs checked, or insists on keeping a cow because it is a pet to her even though its a liability to the herd etc it isn't a stretch to think she would be foolish enough to think she can "handle" things if it gets out of hand with the opposite sex. Her mother keeps getting stuck babysitting my wife's brother's kids that are brats and constantly complains about it - it is to point of wearing them out yet doesn't consider saying no. Her sister is on verge of divorce with a husband who may have a drinking problem and got caught in tech business decline- he never helped her do house chores, they never exchanged much for holidays or birthdays yet now he is in trouble with the whole family for the very thing. The WHOLE family is horrible with action/consequence situations so yes I feel my wife is just as bad.

That's why if she is up to no good then I need proof because actions are not enough for me- and yes I am well aware she has pushed that all beyond any normal limits


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## Bremik (Feb 6, 2009)

Another thing that bothers me is the data usage. She knows I monitor the phone via the service website. We have wi-fi so why do anything thru the phone service as far as data usage goes when there is our wi-fi? She is actually pretty good at paying attention to that sort of thing. By the same token wouldn't all apps like ESPN go through the wi-fi? So back to the question- what would use some of the highest data- compared to all other data uses on providers website- that time of morning?


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

bremik said:


> Another thing that bothers me is the data usage. She knows I monitor the phone via the service website. We have wi-fi so why do anything thru the phone service as far as data usage goes when there is our wi-fi? She is actually pretty good at paying attention to that sort of thing. By the same token wouldn't all apps like ESPN go through the wi-fi? So back to the question- what would use some of the highest data- compared to all other data uses on providers website- that time of morning?


What do you suspect?


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

bremik said:


> Another thing that bothers me is the data usage. She knows I monitor the phone via the service website. We have wi-fi so why do anything thru the phone service as far as data usage goes when there is our wi-fi? She is actually pretty good at paying attention to that sort of thing. By the same token wouldn't all apps like ESPN go through the wi-fi? So back to the question- what would use some of the highest data- compared to all other data uses on providers website- that time of morning?


Skype, Snapchat, Instagram, Facebook....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

B, from what I wrote, you may think I don't understand what and how you see this, but I do.

I'm just at my wits ends how to get you to just tell her to freaking stop.
That all the "I'm sorry" in the world means nothing, if you still feel she just don't get it.
Ask her if she knows the difference between personal and business exchanges.

B, even the aholes from before told her the guy wanted in her pants, and his steady grooming, if not squashed will bring it to pass.
So please don't tell us, a grown woman can't tell these things.

"morning sunshine". Now he has made her whole day with just two little words.
She getting her ego kibble dude. that's why it's still on.

" Wife, I've told and your ahole frinds have told you the guy wants in your pants, but since he strokes your ego, you won't tell him to cut it out, and keep it about business.
So, the next time he reach out to you on a personal level, I WILL be talking to him myself ."


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## Bremik (Feb 6, 2009)

Acoa- I don't know what to suspect- There are so many ways she could be a lot more secretive about all this yet isn't. So none of this adds up to me. I really need hard core proof and I have never had that. I second guess myself so much on all this because it doens't ever make sense. It almost seems like she wants me to catch her.

Thanks Toyboy - now how do I find out which one it is if it's one of those. I know she doesn't do facebook. 

Old wolf- I really appreciate your frankness. That is my big question right now- When my wife and I talked about this a week ago one of the things I told her is it made no sense to me how they texted so much and it just has completely stopped. I told her I really felt they just found another means of communication that I haven't figured out yet. So finding those emails on her phone - that she gets forwarded from her work computer- proved they do still communicate and that emails are at least one of the ways they do it. There are 2 problems with this- 1- she told me they hardly ever communicate anymore - looks like that isn't true. 2- I made clear that she needs to inform me when he communicates with her outside a business tone and that was to be a boundary- she didn't do that.

She doesn't know at this point that I saw those emails last night. I also didn't have enough time to thoroughly go through them to get details." Good Morning sunshine" was enough to tick me off. This morning I texted her that I wanted to swap phones when she had gone in to shower and I swear the way she looked before she left that she got the text but didn't say nothing. Then when she was better than half way to work she texted she had just got the message and would come back if I wanted- which I think she knows I wouldn't make her do that especially after being late so much with weather this week. So do I go for the throat or start getting more stealth in information gathering? By the throat I mean do I seriously consider a separation or worse?

Just to clear things a little- and no it still doesn't help her case- She did have jobs that required travel in the past but this job does not. She does make some during work hours trips in state but those are really on a fairly tight schedule. She is with a whole new bunch of coworkers -


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Good grief. Just tell her you're done. UNLESS she ends it 100% and you WILL be checking for months or years to come. Just have a come to Jesus meeting with her. The way you describe your conversations with her, it sounds like you're going 'well, it kinda sorta bothers me, I'm sure you think you have a good reason for it, so if you have one, let me know, but I really really wish you'd stop it.'

Just sit her down, look her in the face, and say "I KNOW you're still contacting him and I'm done. PROVE to me why I should not head straight to the lawyer tomorrow morning."


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

I'm always keeping track of my kids data usage. I've noticed, from the phone carrier online detail usage, is that as soon as they leave the house(where our wifi is) the data usage is magnified on there phones. At exactly the same time that they are out of wifi range. 

I'm guessing that is when all their phones apps update when they switch over to cellular usage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

bremik said:


> . She has broken all kinds of boundaries but seemed to be very ignorant about possible consequences.
> 
> That has been the biggest stumbling block for me- I honestly think she is that naive as to really not thinking of the consequences to her actions..


Really? She's an adult. She's got a job, she reasons and thinks rationally. She just doesn't aww shucks, a guy is talking to me, aww shucks I'll give him my number, aww shucks, he's flirting with me, aww shucks I'm crossing the boundary.

That's just one guy.

Now repeat with the next guy

Aww shucks...

* not thinking of the consequences to her actions*

What have been the consequences of her actions? You're literally aiding her by giving the she's so naive defense. What does she have to lose? You? No. That first time you found out she crossed the line and you walked she would have known the consequences. I put my hand to a fire I know I'm going to get burned.

Treat her like an adult, and that adult decisions have adult consequences.


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## Bremik (Feb 6, 2009)

Thanks for all the good input. Turnera your right that's exactly what our conversations sound like- might be why we keep having them.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

She's waiting for you to be a man.


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## Bremik (Feb 6, 2009)

turnera said:


> She's waiting for you to be a man.


Just out of curiosity- Why is not being an a** not being a man? I help do dishes, clean house, do laundry etc. - most women on here want that and don't get it from their "man". I also deliver calves, do electrical work, mechanic, butcher cows, build barns- oh is that not being a "man" either? Nothing gets under my skin more than all the crazy "be a man, check your testosterone" comments on here. 

Seems like the ones making the man comments need the help being a man


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

@bremik - what Turnera is telling you to do is to not put up with her BS. That is being a man. See post 36 in this thread. That is what you need to do.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What do you think I'm talking about when I say that? 

We're talking about you and your relationship with your wife, not how many cows you butcher.

If it helps, read some psychology books about men/women relationships to get what I'm at. Think back to caveman days. Women then 'chose' men who looked like they were going to take down that animal and provide her with food that night, who was going to protect her from getting killed. Today, that looks to a woman like someone who will protect her financially, socially, physically (not so much these days). Today, it also looks like a woman who, inherently, wants to 'test' her man to ensure he really IS the strong protector she wants and needs. 

So when she does something sh*tty, and he just sits there and takes it, or asks how he can make her happier so she'll stop being sh*tty, what do you think she's taking from that? 

That she picked the wrong caveman.

Now, if she's done nothing wrong, if she's loving and giving and just feeling overwhelmed or frustrated or taken advantage of, of course you should be helping with more chores. 

But those are two completely different scenarios.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

She continued because you allowed her to.

You can't make her do/not do the things that bother you, but you don't have to put up with it. And put up with it, you have.

My guess/take on a previous posters comment of "man up" is not putting up with her continuing to test boundaries, etc..

Cut to the chase already. Tell her that you expect her to treat you, like you have been treating her. You don't do these things because you are married. You EXPECT the same from her.

Either she stops, or or you'll stop staying married to her. There's no middle ground on this. Either you're all in, or all out.

You've been dealing with the same issues for far too long. I know that this "It's my way, or the highway" approach may sound extreme, but it's only a matter of time before she starts... well you know. Just read a few dozen threads on here and you can pretty much predict what's going to happen with your wife, if she's allowed to continue this for much longer.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

You see B, instead of just saying give me your phone, you went about it the wussy way.

"The look", you KNOW she saw that text !!! Did you say anything as she was going out the door ?? Nope.

I bet those emails are gone now too.
Now give us the ditzy blonde again.

Dude, you are being played, and has been your whole marriage.

This woman has you so micro-managed you can't see over the back of the cows.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

And, I can bet she saw the text cause she was expecting him to text.

She knows you check, so she throw in a "my wonderful husband" for your viewing pleasure.

Micro-managed my man.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Bre, after the above post, I actually closed the site, but I came back to say this.

He travel during the day, she travel during the day. They can arrange to do lunch thru the company site without you even knowing. Lunch being a quicky between clients. It takes no time that's why it's called a quicky.

Also you asked why she let's some things come thru but not others. It's called testing limits and seeing how and when you will reveal you looking at actual msg's.

So here is what you do. STFU !!! Set up the poly, rent the room, and tell her the night before, or just tell her to call in sick, because you guys have an appointment.
Then see if she just HAVE to go in the next day.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

People here have been telling you and telling you.
The aholes from before actually showed you, by you reading him telling her he want to butt fk her, but for some reason, YOU just want to see P/V joined.

Dude, if a guy wrote that to my wife, and she was so damn complacent about it, I would DEMAND she cut all contact from then on, or she go be his butt babe, but she would damn sure not be my wife.

Your wife knows boundries she just don't respect you enough to set them.
Hell, she use them everyday in her life in other areas.

Micro/managed from the start.

You would be surprise how many took the advice, and found exactly what we said they would.
Hell, some of them are even posting on your board.

You may be Andy Griffen, but you sure don't have his smarts.


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## Bremik (Feb 6, 2009)

Thanks for the input. Wasn't happy with them at first but re read them today and see you are trying to help. Did have a heated discussion with my wife this morning before she left for work- see i do listen to TAM. It went back and forth with her crying and saying I am smothering her and always checking up on her and that I have been mad at her for 3 months now. I kept bringing up how she switched to emails with coworker which broke boundaries and was a lie to me because she said she hadn't been communicating much with him. At the end I got mad enough that I told her to stay the f**k away from him if you want it to stop and her response was "that's great just start cussing at me" and she left crying.

She came back out and wanted to talk. She has just started reading Not Just Friends and said "it is about after having an affair- I haven't done that." I told her all this is because over the years because of the unanswered questions an affair is not out of the question. At least look at where it talks about work boundaries and the checklist of signs of an emotional affair plus need to go to the rebuilding trust section and focus on that. This weekend is the deadline to come with a solution that she is to provide.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

First off, get a hold of your emotions. Cussing? Everything you said after that was missed because of your anger.

Second, it is still murky because of how you said it.

" wife, I will not remain in a relationship with someone who insists on secretly communicating with other people of the opposite sex. Your choices and actions will tell me my choices and actions."

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Bremik (Feb 6, 2009)

I was afraid it might be murky yet. When we get into this - my wife and I- I try to read her emotion. When she breaks down the way she does it ALWAYS makes me feel she genuinely doesn't think she is in the wrong and isn't trying to do anything wrong. She genuinely seems hurt I think she is capable of doing anything of that nature.

I know I come off as making excuses for her and because of being on here I have become much more aware of it. So keeping that in mind- my fear is I apparently can't communicate all the reasons I have for giving her the benefit of the doubt. In my mind there is a real danger from all of you getting one side of the story or not getting the whole story. I am not saying you aren't giving reasonable advice- I am saying I want to be SURE that I am not the problem or presenting things that slant toward me and not her.There is a reason it is always recommended that both spouses go to counseling together. There are definitely really bad situations discussed on here and those people who have been hurt "give back" by offering advice on here which is great and useful. 

Not every situation deserves a death penalty response tho some may have experiences that only can make such conclusions. The talk about her needing to grow up and take responsibility is valid but there are numerous examples of "adults" acting like kids at sporting events, childish behavior in general, financial management style etc. so adults not acting adult like isn't a new idea and fairly widespread.
My point is my wife acts in a childish selfish manner and unfortunately it is her relationship towards the opposite sex where it really manifests itself- I believe. Her parents still pay for her 38yr old brother's cell service to give some insight into her upbringing and they don't have money to waste!

I know I come off as giving excuses for my wife and at the very least for those that have been in my shoes I would think you have some idea of why I may be that way. My parents divorced after 43 yrs of marriage and I worry that makes me overreact to my wife and what she does. I really am not trying to make excuses for her as much as I am trying to make damn sure that those giving me advice have all the facts, that I am not twisting anything to my benefit trying to cover up something I am doing wrong , that I have done everything I possibly can to make things clear to my wife and that there is beyond a shadow of a doubt that this is not fixable.

I put divorce on the same level as the death penalty. It is final and no matter how you want to look at it - the consequences are far and wide as to who a couple divorcing effects. There is a reason that those who divorce and remarry have a significantly high chance of divorcing again. I want every avenue explored before I choose divorce. This morning I was prepared to do a separation to get my point across as to the seriousness of her actions. It is still on the table depending how the rest of the week goes with the weekend deadline of a solution. 

Hope that offers some insight


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

bremik said:


> I was afraid it might be murky yet. When we get into this - my wife and I- I try to read her emotion. When she breaks down the way she does it ALWAYS makes me feel she genuinely doesn't think she is in the wrong and isn't trying to do anything wrong. She genuinely seems hurt I think she is capable of doing anything of that nature.


Cheating aside, and she does need to acknowledge that's what she's doing, women cry - a lot - when men become aggressive; get mad; especially yell. It's just part of being a female. And it's often for a lot of different reasons - fear, shame, guilt, or just feeling pressure at being yelled at. I would try not to attribute her actions/reactions to anything she hasn't told you out loud. Over at Marriage Builders, they call that a Disrespectful Judgment (assigning purpose to someone else when you don't know the truth), and it can be quite damaging to a marriage. Why? Because you are then reacting off of your ASSUMPTION of why she does what she does. And if your assumption is wrong, then you are acting of bad information.

MC can help with that.

PS: I've known quite a few people who divorce and get back together. After they realize the grass isn't greener, after they've been apart and have had time to de-escalate, etc. You just never know. But so you understand, after reading thousands of these threads, I'll tell you why people are pushing so hard for you to at LEAST have divorce on the table - psychologically speaking, cheating women will NOT take their husbands seriously unless they know they might lose them. She HAS to know you might walk, before she'll see the severity. It's just the way it is. And no, your wife is NOT special; she'll feel the same thing if she sees you won't put up with mistreatment.


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## Bremik (Feb 6, 2009)

That's very interesting and useful information. Again I may not like some of it but be assured it is fueling my actions today. It probably doesn't come off this way but I really am tired and I don't want to do this again. I think that is part of her problem now is really this issue is nothing compared to some of the others yet she is getting the full gun blast on this. 

But in my mind it parallels other events in many ways even if not exactly the same


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

bremik, 

in the end this is your life, she is your wife, we can posture all we want, we can share our expereinces with you all we want, but in the end you have to decide what is in your best interest, you can make excuses for her or for you all you want, you can place boundaries all you want, but sooner or later you have come to grips that the more you placate the situation the more you become resentful of yourself and of her, thus diminishing your marriage further...she is a big girl and your a big boy its time to stop blaming her up bring, her child rearing, and take ownership, could you be a better husband sure but in the end you can't fix what you don't own, this is her problem and her's to fix, if she does not see the a problem then quess what you become the problem, then your screwed.


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## Bremik (Feb 6, 2009)

True. I believe that's where I am finally at. I guess I will see how things go from here this week. Even being on here takes so much time that I don't have. In the past I would stay up late on here- not a good career move when you get up early. 

Thanks


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

farsidejunky said:


> " wife, I will not remain in a relationship with someone who insists on secretly communicating with other people of the opposite sex. Your choices and actions will tell me my choices and actions."



Follow this advice, memorize it and say it verbatim. 

No matter what she say next, your only response is, "I've made my feelings clear. The ball is in your court."


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Bre., her pretending not to have seen your text is telling.
It says she needed time to text him thru the work server and delivery a coded msg.
OR, there is a burner phone.

You never used a VAR, so you don't know. I say no, but she KNOWS you checking, and she knows YOU.

A woman that don't think how her husband would feel a man humping her leg in front of him, and others, is NOT someone to trust my heart to.
By now, if she doing him, and from your techs, she KNOW just how to micro-manage you, and that you are, she has a SOLID pattern in place.

But Bre., with you showing her the other thread, and her knowing your passwords, this is what I want you to do.
Change your password. If she ask you about it, you know she trolling you.

Find a new way to contact Gus, or Weightlifter, or even me. They smart, but I'm NASTY and smart, and have an IT group behind me.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

For those don't know.
Hard life, many mental issues, but still function.

AND for sure, don't take anyone's life or marriage lightly.

HATE being played, cuz, that's the world I grew up in.


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## Bremik (Feb 6, 2009)

An update to my situation. After giving my wife the ultimatum of I leave or she changes she has decided to play by my rules.
My rules are:

1. Frequent forwarding to me of emails between her and the person she had been texting. The emails are required due to 
work and as long as they remain a working relationship tone I am good.

2. To be up front of any events she is at or going to that he will also be there. I told her I don't want to "find out" he was 
somewhere she was and didn't know about it. This also applies to anything now or in the future that if something is said 
or done by another male coworker that is out of line she is to let me know- again don't let me find out without her telling 
first.

3. Zero tolerance for outside work texting or calls from male coworkers. Zero tolerance with anything less than professional 
relationship/conversations with any male period.

4. The core deal is don't let me find something questionable now or in the future. If it happens a polygraph occurs and if 
lying is detected I am done.

5. I have continued the GPS to verify locations and have put VAR in just in case- nothing found to date. 

6. She is reading "Not Just Friends" and we are talking about it as she goes

She has complied to date and yes I know there are some holes but I think I can monitor enough to detect changes. Not flashy in some peoples eyes I am sure but I guess it is what I came up with.


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

So what are you going to do when your wife ONCE MORE broke this boundaries ?

It is the same story all over again my friend. 

You give her "rules" like you said and she sometimes forgets about them and you dont do anything about it.

Take care


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## Bremik (Feb 6, 2009)

Be smart- I guess my answer to you is read #4. If no boundaries were ever officially set and I am considered an enabler by many on here then what else would you have me do? I have set boundaries with a consequence as many have suggested. I have made clear what the order of events will be and she is at least making the appearance of trying.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

B, you are doing fine now!!

Strongly stated line in the sand, and a willingness to to act, example, " your text that morning ", instead of just asking for the phone out of the blue.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

You need to be ok with pulling the plug if any of your boundaries are crossed, and mean it. Women can smell when men are bluffing, especially if they've done it for a time with no consequences. 

You need to act like she has zero chances left, not just say it, act it. 

Then, you also need to develop your own reasonable end date for the rules, because if she's stuck with them forever, she will just come to resent you and think you'll never trust her again anyway. 

If you do this right, and she gets it, you won't need rules eventually, because her respect for you will guide her to show you her phone and tell you things without prompting or fear.


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## Bremik (Feb 6, 2009)

Thanks Old Wolf and Satya. She really understood that I was ready to leave- she brought it up repeatedly before we got the rules spelled out. You have to understand that I have NEVER threatened to leave before. It was always the silent treatment, some arguing/ yelling and then make up time in the past. 

The worst response was when I intercepted the message from the two idiots and that triggered us going to a counselor. So I guess after writing that I see I have "raised" a spoiled brat wife! She has gone and done what she wanted knowing all she had to endure was a brief period of me being mad and it would be over. 

You are right in some kind of timeline for easing the pressure and I assume when I don't get the knots in the stomach when she is away on work related projects will be a good indicator of when it is time. And I am trying to encourage her by letting her know I appreciate the emails she forwards and including me in on decisions like the following.

A good example of the change is she could have gone to a company conference in April. She informed me the one guy would be there and she forwarded the email to me from her boss asking about her being at a post conference meeting that dealt with her office's clients. (She did go on a similar trip last year thinking it was important to go in order to move up in the company- that hasn't happened.) So she first decided she didn't need to be at main conference because it didn't apply to her job anyway. Then she wanted my input on if she should go to the second meeting. We decided that made sense and the only way to do it was fly up the day before and come back the next day- gone 2 days instead of 4-5.
In the end the boss said it wasn't worth her doing that for 2 days. So she really does seem to be thinking more about these things.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

That's good progress.


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## Bremik (Feb 6, 2009)

I hope. Old Wolf raised some good points in the past so I am trying as hard as I can to keep my eyes open. She isn't innocent by any means and as long as she tries and all the stories match up as far as where she is (verified by GPS) or what she is doing (verified by GPS and VAR) then I have to believe she is honestly trying.

I don't like monitoring her but another poster on TAM said something to the effect of - she had trust and lost that now she has to earn it back. Not following up on her is something you do if trust exists. At this point it is starting to rebuild. I am sure it is a long road ahead


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

She needs to get a different job NOW.

your W will not get out without absolute NC.

She is addicted and can't see it.

You must realize you are dealing with an addict.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

bremik said:


> Thanks Old Wolf and Satya. She really understood that I was ready to leave- she brought it up repeatedly before we got the rules spelled out. You have to understand that I have NEVER threatened to leave before. It was always the silent treatment, some arguing/ yelling and then make up time in the past.
> 
> The worst response was when I intercepted the message from the two idiots and that triggered us going to a counselor. So I guess after writing that I see I have "raised" a spoiled brat wife! She has gone and done what she wanted knowing all she had to endure was a brief period of me being mad and it would be over.
> 
> ...


What an exhausting relationship. And you call your wife 'an idiot?' 
(assuming 'the two idiots' means one of them is her)

Unless you want this kind of father/daughter relationship with your wife, you should consider leaving...and mean it. 

She has no respect for you. 'Complying' with a laundry list of demands isn't respect, no more than attending church because one fears hell shows love for God. 

Do as you wish, but how anyone could be happy...I mean, truly happy...living in fear that their loved one is going to cross boundaries, and break rules is beyond me. Love isn't like this, you know. True love shouldn't require such exhausting measures to ensure someone isn't going to step out on you...again.

I'm sorry you are going through this. But, you deserve a far better life than this, and that has nothing to do with her, but it has to do with how you see and value yourself.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

harrybrown said:


> She needs to get a different job NOW.
> 
> your W will not get out without absolute NC.
> 
> ...


she's not addicted to the guy, she's addicted to drama and other men's attention. she'll do it at the next job...and the next job.

narcissists don't change...they just change their lovers.


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## Bremik (Feb 6, 2009)

The two "idiots" was for the two drunk former college friends/ at that time also coworkers that left the message for my wife that I had heard.

I feel like I have to accept some responsibility for all this in the sense of enabling it to happen and not putting a stop to it a long time ago. When she was in school it just took awhile to figure out what was going on due to actually trusting her and not questioning things and honestly I think just not believing it was happening- almost in shock. We moved out of state when she graduated and started our own business. Between having kids then and running our own business we seemed to move past the issues- though time showed it may have been more due to lack of opportunity.

When she started working away the job was a result of those classmates and the company they were with. I felt so good about where my wife and I were at that time I wasn't worried. However, when warning signs began appearing a new set of problems began. We have now tumbled our way through 2 more job changes and no real boundaries or consequences being set other than the complain/make up cycle as mentioned before.

The way I look at it I have now done what I didn't do before. As so many have pointed out it is likely that this isn't over. Now things are in place to catch her and an exit plan is on the table. It is her call at this point.

No none of this has been easy and is extremely stressful but here I am and now we will see what happens.

As far as the job change - as you all mentioned she will just find someone new so to me that isn't an answer. Let her think things are good and they will get better or she will slip up and get caught. As you can tell this has been going on one way or another for a long time- it's only a matter of time before it will happen again if she isn't going to change.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

bremik said:


> The two "idiots" was for the two drunk former college friends/ at that time also coworkers that left the message for my wife that I had heard.
> 
> I feel like I have to accept some responsibility for all this in the sense of enabling it to happen and not putting a stop to it a long time ago. When she was in school it just took awhile to figure out what was going on due to actually trusting her and not questioning things and honestly I think just not believing it was happening- almost in shock. We moved out of state when she graduated and started our own business. Between having kids then and running our own business we seemed to move past the issues- though time showed it may have been more due to lack of opportunity.
> 
> ...


You seem like a nice man, and I truly pray for your peace of mind after all this. And I also pray for her too...that she too finds peace. 

Not sure if you are spiritual or not, but that might help you right now, too.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Thanks for the update B.

Awww to be young and innocent as Ms. D.
Never having had to see your life partner so sick you had to wipe their butt for them.
Aww not to have 10 to 20 years invested emotionally, mentally, financially, and physically.
To have suffered through childbirth, sickness, Joy, unbridled lust and all the many many things big and small that come with making a life together.

Bremik, I NEVER want to see a family torn.
Even more so because of my past, I hate people that game and use.

If a couple can rebuild sincerely, I wish them all the best.

My goal is always to bring a BS to see without the rose tint, not to breakup a family.

Good luck and God Bless


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## Bremik (Feb 6, 2009)

Thanks for the comments Old Wolf and Deidre. The funny thing - or not- about all this is believe it or not I am a very by the numbers kind of person or a cause and effect type thinking. You don't consistently find someone with their hand in the cookie jar and not assume they are after a cookie- even if you never catch them with a cookie in their hand. It is beyond frustrating to me that I haven't been able to rationalize this whole thing out. And your right a lot of this has to do with how I see myself. And yes this is exhausting.

There is a thread on TAM about any relationships that were suspect but never actually found anything. For some reason that has really struck a chord with me. All that are posting are noting all the different posts on here, how they start and how long it takes for the poster to come to the acknowledgement of the truth. I have let so many unanswered questions go and have swept so many illogical answers away. Can you imagine a legal system that lets criminals off because they can't remember the details of their wrongdoing or the criminal provides answers that make them look good but don't make any sense? As stupid as it sounds I think I am finally just getting angry that I have wasted this much of my life by CLINGING to half truths. I think as I look around of how much this has affected my attitude towards other people, our business, and maybe more importantly myself I am realizing just how deeply it has affected me. I thought it was its own issue and just something to fix or work on in addition to everything else I have to do but now I am beginning to conclude it has constantly shadowed EVERYTHING I do because for the most part it has always been there to some degree or another.

I can't do anything about the past other than to be aware of the patterns. I have to accept that I made it ok for her to do those things because I didn't stop it. Our business isn't in good shape right now and I may be having to start a new path in life. It is a perfect time to clean house and see if she is staying on the ride or getting off. I have invested a lot of my life in this so a little more time isn't really a big deal at this point and I do have kids to think of though the youngest is a freshman in high school so not as bad as it could be. So I guess I feel though I may not have any money I want to spend the rest of my life with someone I can trust and who 100% returns the affection I show them.

I am rambling but thought it is important to note something that I have never forgotten how I felt that night. When my wife first got the job that her college drunk jerk off buddies helped her get she had to go out of state for a job like orientation. She left early in the morning to go to the airport and got lost so I had to stop doing chores that morning to go in and mapblast to get her directions to the airport- so my day started off being behind. At that time I had to stop chores in the morning to get the 2 oldest kids on the bus- they were in 4th and 2nd grade and the youngest was in kingergarten so she was every other day. So this is the start to the day - Feb 14th no less. By that night we had a snowstorm. I was still in the barn at 9pm with all 3 kids. One had kicked a football through the milkhouse window so I was fixing that, I had a tire in the milkhouse trying to warm it up so I could fix it for the skidloader that I had to have, and still had to go in and cook supper for them. School did get cancelled for the next day that night because it was already so bad- that was a big help. And what was my wife doing? She and her buddies had gone up to the lead jacka**es house - his wife was there- to basically drink it up and have a good time. She never called that night- I already assumed she might not anyway once I found out where she was going. I have never forgotten that feeling of that day. 

I don't know what's going to happen but I think I am finally ready to deal with it probably mostly because I am tired. She has an opportunity to make things right and it would be great if she would but we will see. As far as being spiritual you can't do all this and have the occupation we have and not be- however, sometimes you do have to wonder if anyone is listening


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Work toward saving for poly. When the next thing happens do the poly....or just tell her....you know that night has always bothered me...I just can't get over the feeling you did something inappropriate due to the fact you think it was ok for a married mom to go drinking overnight with a bunch of guys at one of their houses....you need to take a poly to show me you have not.

If you were near DFW I could hook you up with a polygrapher....I have 12 polys set for 18th and 19th at my office.

When it gets to poly time....call local probation or state parole office and speak to officer who supervises sex offenders and find out who they use. Our polygrapher does 30+ a year just at our office, we are rural area and she comes out of Dallas.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Damn Bre. that sucks to have those thoughts follow you man.

I couldn't do it. You are a much better man than me.

She would have known exactly what I went through and how I felt, the first time something likewise happened, but most likely way before.
Like when I found out.

In all relationships compromise has to be made, but there always comes a time when a line has to be drawn, or lose a little of yourself.
You are now seeing those little loses.

You have nothing to be ashamed of.
You are way more man than I will ever be.
So if she does all, and not step wrong for a long while, you maybe will get that ever after you've worked so hard for.
I for one think you more than deserve it.

God Bless.

P.S. take a day for you B., get the chores done, then just let the day roll without mind movies and all this crap.
Just take a "won't worry day".


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## Bremik (Feb 6, 2009)

Ha Ha! Thanks OW57! Your straight forward responses have been greatly appreciated!


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