# Can I reconcile with my separated wife??..



## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

Hey guys and girls!!.. First time poster with a bit of an issue I'm hoping you friendly people can help with..

Like a lot of other men, I have come here to seek a bit of direction on what I should do in regard to reconciling with my wife, or if it is even possible.. We are currently separated.. We have been together for 10 years, married for 7, and have 2 beautiful children aged 6 and 8.. I am 35, she is 31..

Around 8 weeks ago now, I copped the "love you, but not in love with you" hammer to the heart.. We all know the feelings involved with that, so I won't bore anyone by delving in to it!!.. We lived under the same roof (same bed etc) for the first 5 weeks, but 3 weeks ago she moved out to a place of her own in a different state.. There is a legitimate reason behind the move as we recently moved to a different state which neither of us have any family, and she moved to be back closer to her family.. I understand this..

We spoke at length about the reasons for our separation, and the not in love feeling, and it was mainly due to me being disrespectful within the relationship due to inappropriate name calling, and not fully being appreciative overall.. I have also been a bit intimidating at times during arguments.. I will not argue against any of these points as, looking back, they are completely true.. Please be assured, there was NEVER any physical abuse that happened within the relationship/marriage at all.. I can be intimidating at times, and I realise this..

The decision to separate came as a shock to me (as happens to most men/women in this situation), and from what my wife has said, it has been brewing for the last 6-12 months inside her.. Whilst I don't agree with the decision to separate (nobody does!!), I am accepting my wifes decision, and not arguing against her as it will only made matters worse..

Now, keeping in mind she and the kids have been gone for the weeks, I spent the first week or so grovelling, begging and generally being annoying trying to get her to change her mind.. The last week or 2, I have found a bit of inner peace between the hurt, and have backed off with the tactics which will only push her away further..

During the separation so far, we have both been amicable and are having no arguments.. I talk to the kids either via Skype or phone call every second day (my choice, there is no restriction).. My wife and I talk on an almost daily basis either through text, phone or Facebook messages.. 

When I have spoken to my wife about us, she mentions that she doesn't miss me, that she is happy with the way things are, and her feelings haven't changed.. She mentions that I should move on, and is no longer wearing her ring on her finger, but on a necklace.. Given that it is only 3 weeks in, is this her "honeymoon phase" of separation??.. She does still care for my feelings though, and tries to make sure I am ok..

I can assure everyone that there is no other parties involved from either side.. I will be moving to the same state to be closer to the kids in the very near future, and initially will be getting a place of my own.. We have mutually agreed that this is a good decision..

My wife is a very strong woman, and is a hard nut to crack!!.. This is one thing that makes me think that what is being shown on the outer, is not what the inside is thinking.. The no contact method WILL NOT work for her (let me tell you that now!!).. I know her too well, and the communication at the moment is good..

Given the information above, would you think that there is a chance of reconciliation??.. If so, how should I go about it??.. 

Thanks in advance for any advice..


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

Apologies for the long post too!!..


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

L4MW,

Most threads on TAM read like yours.

"There is no one else".

Then a few days later they find evidence that there is indeed an OM. 

Even happened to me. 

Not saying there is anyone else, just don't overlook the possibility. It's important to know if there is because it affects how you go forward. 

No contact as part of the 180 isn't about her. It's about you. Doesn't matter if she's hard to crack. It has nothing to do with her.


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## Stretch (Dec 12, 2012)

Do you know why your wife left? Was it something about your relationship? Are you working on yourself to change that if her feelings about you were true?

If you do not want to change, then file the papers and get back to being the father in your kids' lives.

You have to act like an alpha male and live your life well without her? If she wants to come back, you may find out you don't want her. That is the most powerful feeling you will ever experience short of your kids being born.

Peace, 180 and NC,
Stretch


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## WatchmansMoon (Mar 6, 2013)

Sorry to hear this. One thing you didn't mention was getting marriage counseling. I couldn't recommend it more, friend. Marriage counseling specialists can help you both pinpoint the areas that you're not understanding about one another, and help you learn to communicate better. Often the problems we struggle with in marriage are based largely on misunderstandings, or long term disagreements that you just need help working through. It's really hard to do this on your own, without ending up arguing. It's worth the investment as well. I know people tend to say it's too expensive, but divorce is expensive. Best of luck to you!
~ Seek the Light ~


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

There's really no way of knowing if you can get back together. You explained the logistics of the separation, but very little that led up to it. Was there arguing? Depression?


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

Stretch said:


> Do you know why your wife left? Was it something about your relationship? Are you working on yourself to change that if her feelings about you were true?
> 
> If you do not want to change, then file the papers and get back to being the father in your kids' lives.
> 
> ...


Stretch, when myself and my wife discussed why we were separating, it was bought to my attention that over time, my lack of respect at times (name calling etc) that is what caused her to lose attraction to me, and in turn her feelings of being "in love"..

Yes, I am working on being more respectful and appreciative, and I am showing this as much as I can without being in person atm..

There is no way know that I am prepared to file for divorce yet.. This lady is the love my life, my soul mate, the mother of my children and the ying to my yang.. I am prepared to fight and change to get her back, without smothering her..

I understand the alpha male comment, and I am working on all of that now.. I have spent most of my life being an alpha (but not a douche), and now is really the time to be one again (without being an a$$hat)..



Ceegee said:


> L4MW,
> 
> Most threads on TAM read like yours.
> 
> ...


Ceegee, I can almost unequivocally say that there is no one else involved.. We both have access to each others social media accounts, phone records, emails etc and nothing has ever rang alarm bells.. Even in general life, nothing was out of the ordinary.. 

I'm honestly thinking that NC would be a step back at the moment in regard to winning her back..



WatchmansMoon said:


> Sorry to hear this. One thing you didn't mention was getting marriage counseling. I couldn't recommend it more, friend. Marriage counseling specialists can help you both pinpoint the areas that you're not understanding about one another, and help you learn to communicate better. Often the problems we struggle with in marriage are based largely on misunderstandings, or long term disagreements that you just need help working through. It's really hard to do this on your own, without ending up arguing. It's worth the investment as well. I know people tend to say it's too expensive, but divorce is expensive. Best of luck to you!
> ~ Seek the Light ~


Watchmans, I have recommended MC, but the horse had bolted at that stage.. She is showing no interest in it at the moment apart from saying she would think about it.. Initially the answer was a firm no, and when I asked why she mentioned that it would be a waste of time as it did worse for her brother and his ex than it did good.. I have to agree with this as I saw what happened with my own 2 eyes, and I see her point in that respect..

I would say you could call this a long term disagreement of sorts.. More a boiling over of things she has bottled up over time..

Thank you for the kind words..




Pluto2 said:


> There's really no way of knowing if you can get back together. You explained the logistics of the separation, but very little that led up to it. Was there arguing? Depression?


Pluto2, in the lead up to the separation there were a few little indicators that things weren't 100% in the last 12 months (moreso when I look back at things now - hindsight is wonderful!!).. We probably bickered a little more than usual, and her temper was a little bit shorter.. There were no raging arguments though.. There is no depression to be noted from either side..



All in all, I am thinking to myself that I did let issues go on without nipping them in the bud early (as most husbands do and then find themselves here).. I am thinking that her decision, whilst it has obviously been going through her head for a while, is maybe a little too soon and full on, although I can't say what she is thinking..

I am just hoping to myself that she hasn't emotionally shut down or checked out too much (which in some ways it seems like she has, but I may be wrong), and there is a chance of me showing her that I am changing for the better, and have a chance to reignite our love..


On another note, I agree with most of the tip on the 180 list, although some of them may be detrimental to what I am trying to achieve.. Of course I will look out for myself, but getting cold with the communication doesn't seem like a good thing, and for that reason, I am kind of against NC too..

One of the main points I note regarding a successful R is to have good communication, and a friendship base.. We have that at the moment (although the friend part is seeming a little weird), and I fear losing the communication side of things would be a step back.. We are currently communicating better during the actual separation (3 weeks) than we have in the last 6-8 months, so that must stand for something..

Thanks for the advice so far, and I hope to get more..


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Moving back to be closer to your kids will be a major development in your lives. Separation for many means the right to date. One can argue about the ethics of married people dating. Is it adultery? 

You seem to admire your wife's character. She is a strong person and you have not lived up to her standard. You should be that person now. Is she perceptive? Will she observe change in you?

She will not reconsider MC or the separation at this point. Don't push for the moment. What sort of activities do you do together with the kids? If you move back, you can propose doing things together. If you have fun together, the atmosphere can change.

You must be taking a blow economically, moving and setting up two households. How are you paying for this? Is she a SAHM?


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> Moving back to be closer to your kids will be a major development in your lives. Separation for many means the right to date. One can argue about the ethics of married people dating. Is it adultery?
> 
> You seem to admire your wife's character. She is a strong person and you have not lived up to her standard. You should be that person now. Is she perceptive? Will she observe change in you?
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply Longwalk..

I consider the move to be a big development too, and hopefully it will open her heart again to see that I am all about the family.. I'm not expecting or holding out for that to happen, but human nature would say that she should see it for the good that it is..

Although we haven't spoken about dating, when I was being in the annoying stage (the first week or so of begging etc), her way of "helping" me to get over it was to say to move on etc.. She has also said "if you date someone, you date someone, same with me", but this was added with "if I miss out on coming back to you because you are with someone else, that is my bad luck"..

Keep in mind, I was annoying her to the point of anger when that was said.. I have thought long and hard about the subject though, and I would probably not consider a date adultery, but sex would be a BIG speedbump.. I want to let her go a bit to see that the grass isn't always greener, but at the same time I don't want to lose all chances to someone else.. At the moment, I can tell you that there is no interest in dating or any other relations with anyone else.. We have never lied to each other, and I have never had reason to disbelieve anything she has told me in the past, so I don't see why it would start now..

You are right, I absolutely love my wife for the strong person that she is.. I'm not sure whether it is the fact I haven't met her standards, but more the fact I caused her hurt over the years that she did not have to have put toward her.. Yes, I am changing my ways, and yes she would see this..

I have stopped pushing for R or MC, but still make the occasional funny comment about how she should date this person (being me).. It now gets a laugh out of her instead of annoying her.. We do/did a lot of activities together with the kids (camping, fishing etc), and I have approached her with this, but she says she would feel a little uncomfortable with that at the moment.. I honestly think that may be awkwardness, which could be taken 2 ways..

I am selling up everything I have here to move back.. As I mentioned to her in a previous talk, I don't care what I have to lose materially to be closer to the kids.. I have full time work, and have work to go back to as well.. My wife works part time whilst the kids are at school..

Keep in mind, at no time have the kids been "taken" from me.. Although they went with her when she moved, I have never been told I have no access, or even limited access.. As mentioned previously, I agreed with the move she was making as it would get her back closer to her family etc, and I was intending to stay where I am, but I can't stay away from my kids.. 3 weeks has killed me enough as it is!!.. They were due to fly here for a visit in 4 weeks, but I decided to move back there so I could see them even more, and be closer to my wife to actually SHOW her the changes I am implementing, not just hear them verbally..


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You sound like a pretty together person considering the turmoil in your life. You cannot nice or beg your way back together with her. And usually when women check out it's often for good. If she finds someone great or good enough, you may never get another shot.

It is also possible that she will not find Mr Right. And you could be the rebound guy. You will never be him if you are needy and abandoned.

Take your kids fishing and camping. You cannot lose. Don't invite her anymore. She knows the door is open at the moment.

Get in shape. If you have any bad habits, like smoking or porn, drop them. Your wife will sense the change.

You can do meetup or other activities that are social without dating individual women. You cannot let your wife's affirmation become the only way of being masculine.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Love4Mywife;10128346
I can assure everyone that there is no other parties involved from either side.. I will be moving to the same state to be closer to the kids in the very near future said:


> You are NOT going to thank me.
> 
> Here is your timing.
> 
> ...


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

Weightlifter, unfortunately I have to disagree, but if you are right, I'll stand corrected..

First off, yes, we do share an account, and I have already looked there.. Nothing out of the ordinary.. I also have a key logger on PC to see if the kids do anything untoward, and also nothing there.. Unless messages were being sent by smoke signal or carrier pigeon it hasn't happened..

I don't know if you have read all of the posts, but it does mention that we both have FULL access to each other's accounts.. Also, there isn't another phone unless she hid it bloody well and only used it sparingly (not an ideal way to get a budding affair going).. You would also have read that things have been rocky for about 12 months, and the reason we moved was because she thought it may bring her feelings back (during our after talks)..

She was living at her mothers for 2 weeks, so 4-10 days isn't really right.. I know that she did hardly anything else as I was messaging day and night, and so was she..

I'm a little frustrated that most relationship problems on here are met with a response about cheating etc.. Is it not possible to lose the love over time due to a persons actions??..


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Love4Mywife said:


> Weightlifter, unfortunately I have to disagree, but if you are right, I'll stand corrected..
> 
> First off, yes, we do share an account, and I have already looked there.. Nothing out of the ordinary.. I also have a key logger on PC to see if the kids do anything untoward, and also nothing there.. Unless messages were being sent by smoke signal or carrier pigeon it hasn't happened..
> 
> ...


Love there is a small chance that she isn't cheating but then at the very least she is a waw-walkaway wife.
2 books to read...
1) No More Mr. Nice Guy.

2) Married Mans Sex Life Primer.

About 90% of the threads where one thought she wasn't cheating...was.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Love4Mywife said:


> Weightlifter, unfortunately I have to disagree, but if you are right, I'll stand corrected..
> 
> First off, yes, we do share an account, and I have already looked there.. Nothing out of the ordinary.. I also have a key logger on PC to see if the kids do anything untoward, and also nothing there.. Unless messages were being sent by smoke signal or carrier pigeon it hasn't happened..
> 
> ...



You could be right. 

Until you find out differently, follow Longwalk's advice. It is sound.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

In the short term most separations are great for one party and not the other. One starts to explore a new world and the other waits. It is one of the inherent problems with separations. 

You are doing what most of us BS do, we are taking all the blame. You feel you know what issues within yourself you need to improve on and are working on that. You are not the sole problem in the marriage, she has weakness and issues that need to be addressed too. 

She at any point during the last year could have voiced her issues in order to not get to the point the two of you are at. She seems to be into just making statements, not wanting actually interact and address problems. When separations first happen rarely are the full and true reasons disclosed. That almost always happens and until she is ready to really talk your almost fighting a losing battle.

You don’t want to do the NC part of the 180 but she is slowly pulling her life away from you. You still provide some emotional support etc for her by staying in contact. Part of why limiting the contact isn’t as a punishment or a step backwards but she needs to see what life is without you. She talks to you when its convenient or she feels she needs support and you are happy to do it but as you stated before you feel like it’s a friendship. She needs to miss you, that means only talking about kids or finances. She wanted the separation, she doesn’t miss you because you stay in enough contact to meet her needs at this time. 

Again most of us BS think staying I contact is helping and really it doesn’t and sooner or later she will contact you less or want to talk to you less as she grows more confident in her new life. You also need to give yourself some distance from her so you can more objectively look at the situation and issues. You need to keep yourself mentally strong right now so if/when she really wants to talk or work on the issues you are ready. 

She knows at anytime she can come back to you, she has no incentive to change the pattern right now. You need to change her mindset that she is risking losing you.


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## rally (Aug 13, 2014)

Hi L4MW,

I'm going through the same thing brother, albeit, it hasn't been as long as your situation. My advice is to stay grounded and continue to work on yourself. I.e. Counseling or other resources. I assure you that your wife hasn't forgot about you emotionally. If you can show that you are committed to change for the better, you may have a shot at reconciliation. I'm praying you can reunite with your family. This site has been a blessing in terms of feeling like your not alone.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

OP. FWIW. I truly hope I am wrong.

Unfortunately I am correct most of the time. Its all patterns.


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

Thanks for the replies people..

Ceegee, I intend to follow that advice..

Honcho, I have started to implement that aspect of NC this evening.. I had to msg her regarding an issue, and cut it short and to the chase.. It has left her "begging for more" as even though my replies have been to the point, the messages from her have been more "free flowing".. An example was her asking how my day was after basically finishing off the needed conversation as required..

Rally, thank you for your kind words.. I hope things work out for you too.. Rest assured that I working on myself, and am feeling the changes already..

Weightlifter, as mentioned previously, absolutely nothing has been a stick out as evidence.. I'm not going to rule it out 100%, but as mentioned, EVERYTHING has been checked, and nothing sticks out..


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

> I'm a little frustrated that most relationship problems on here are met with a response about cheating etc.. Is it not possible to lose the love over time due to a persons actions??..


Absolutely. And women start affairs because they are disappointed in their husbands. Sometimes fairly, sometime not. But once a woman checks out, she is going to start looking for a new guy. Affirmation that she is attractive will be important to healing after ending a relationship. Also, women get horny.

Stick with your modified 180. Do not give her emotional sustenance. But that does not mean being cold or mean. Treat her respectfully. She asked for distance. Give it to her. If you are cheerful and look like you are going to get your sh*t together, regardless of what she does, this should raise your sex ranking.

You pretty much need to do the 180 to survive.

Whatever failures there were in your relationship, you are prepared not to repeat. This takes mental discipline.


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

Ok, so quick update.. I've been 180'ing the sh*t out of the 180 for the last couple of days, and I'm feeling good!!.. I modified the NC to suit my needs and it seems to have an effect BUT, I went against a couple of things and it seems to have got a bite from my wife..

So, over the last couple of days I have got myself in the headspace of "I couldn't give a f*ck if she is cheating" and started trying to bring back the old charming self from back before we got together, and damn it felt good.. Now I'm not saying I'm getting ready to go out chasing tail, but I just want to be in that headspace again, and not all over the shop.. It's the Alpha coming back out in me (not that I ever lost it, but I didn't feel the need to be totally out there once I got my catch)..

Anyway, talking to the wife today and it started off with "how have the kids been etc", and somewhere along the line she said "what are you up to this weekend"??.. Well my reply to that was "doing some yard work, and I will probably go to the gym" (keep in mind I haven't been to the gym in the last 12-14 years)..

Well if I was a fisherman, my rod would have almost broken!!.. I could tell by the voice that she saw that I am getting happy and moving on(ish).. The reply came "who are you trying to impress"??..

Long story short, I stuffed up the 180 by saying what I am up to, and then turned on the old school charm without coming across as begging, needy or anything else.. I basically came across as old me from back in the day.. I told her that although I am doing it for myself, she is the one I want to impress.. There were also other "smoothish" things said, but that's another story..

Anyway, I noticed a change in the demeanor of my wife.. It just seemed that it was no longer "we are separated", but more "I don't like bulky guys".. Now call me stupid if you wish, but the fact that she said "I don't like bulky guys" would mean that she was aiming the comment as "I don't like YOU bulky", especially with what is happening.. A bit later in the convo it turned back in to "I don't care anyway", but I think the seed has been planted.. I'm not saying everything is good, but it seems to be an inroad..

I am also almost DEFINITELY of the opinion that there is no one else involved.. If there was, why would she care about me impressing other women, or me getting "bulky"??.. Yeah, you could say I'm the "plan B", but the convo started as every other one until the charm went on.. She actually noticed my self improvement to my attitude and reversing the issues which caused the separation, so that is a good sign I hope!!.. 

Maybe the seed has been planted, or maybe I have wasted that seed in arid ground, who knows??.. At this stage, my headspace is one of clarity and self improvement, so I couldn't care about the outcome.. No doubt I will have more bad days, but at the moment it is game on!!..


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Don't talk about change. Do it.
If you bulk up, it will impress her, provided you have a "v" shape. Machiavelli writes about this.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

please keep in mind that even if she is interested in another man and she probably is that she may respond to you with concern if she thinks you're moving on. Because the person who wants to leave its the person who is in charge and hold the power. As soon as you change that dynamic which is something that the 180 aims to do a cheaters demeanor can indicate interest in you again. But that isn't enough to break them out of wanting to divorce you. They just want to maintain control. And the way that you move from the 182 wanting to impress you just lost any ground that you had it indeed she is interested in someone else.

the 180 isn't situational especially this early in the cycle. 

you still don't really know what you are dealing with.

for another thing it shows flaky behavior on your part.

Because now going back to the one at if you are serious like with her and somewhat cold she's going to think that you're jerking her chain. and she will legitimatly be able to say that you are playing games. 

the 180 is for you and you alone.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

You were doing great until you opened your mouth. 

Keep in mind we are here for you so take this as tough love. 

If she has someone else and you tell her you're trying to impress her it turns her off completely. 

Be vague. Let her wonder. Think no more about it.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Chicks dig confident men so keep it up...also keep in mind chicks also like mysteries men too.

Keep raising your attraction level.....you just might get through this crap!

I bet if you told her you changed your hair style and bought some new cloths...her next question would be "when are you coming to visit the kids"?

You will get thru this, the most important person to know this is your self...the second most important person to know this is your wife!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

BTW...I hope we are all wrong on this one!


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

If you don't have facial hair grow some. 

If you do shave it.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Your calmness and clarity during this turmoil is admirable. you've also clearly done some homework. Kudos.
To answer your OP question, think about it: The reality is, she has moved out and away, taken her ring off, and told you she is free to date now, and told you to move on after thinking about this for some time. Clearly, the odds do not bode well for you to hope she is going to have some total change of heart. She is now 'in charge', and I am sure she is enjoying that. You, unfortunately, have to accept that and frankly let her, while much as you've already noted and are doing, you work on yourself and take steps toward ensuring she at least notices. That doesn't mean she will change her mind; remember that. The great risk is giving her the time and space to figure out what she wants, while ensuring she knows you're there if she wants to work it out. For your sake, I'd be thinking about nicely putting some expiration date to that offer. In the meantime, I agree with the advice above -- you've got to distance yourself a bit, to allow her to miss you. You're a safety net now, doing yourself no good by being overly supportive. In a way, you're now at war - the declaration's been made - and have to recognize that and act somewhat accordingly.

fwiw, I also agree with the above viewpoints about someone else most likely in the picture in some way, sorry. I understand your frustration about TAMers jumping to that conclusion, but it really is borne from deep, rich experience here. You can read time and time again people saying *exactly* what you've said and days, weeks, months, sometimes years later coming back with "I can't believe it, but..." 
I'm sure you're right and it's no full-blown PA... Maybe just an idea or an inkling for her at this point, she was approached and wants to see where it goes, a semi-fantasy she can now freely explore, or mild/early EA (co-worker?) - but *something* moved her to take this drastic action instead of buckling down and working through it WITH you. 

Nevertheless I'm truly rooting for you to be right. I always root for the underdog... 

Good luck and I'm sorry you're here.


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## Fenix (Jul 2, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> You sound like a pretty together person considering the turmoil in your life. You cannot nice or beg your way back together with her. And usually when women check out it's often for good. If she finds someone great or good enough, you may never get another shot.
> 
> It is also possible that she will not find Mr Right. And you could be the rebound guy. You will never be him if you are needy and abandoned.
> 
> ...



This, but also get into individual counseling. You were abusive to her--verbally and emotionally abusive. You need to own that....and you aren't. You are saying disrespectful. That is a world of difference. So fix yourself first.

When I read your post, I see a guy who was abusive and used intimidation tactics on his wife. I also see a guy who is regretful and loves his wife. I have no idea why you thought that was ok, or how you were raised, but your wife was right to leave. So, fix yourself first and let your wife see the change.

Also, kudos to you for keeping in touch, not whoring around and being willing to do what it takes for the kids...and the marriage. So, while I sounded harsh in the beginning of this post, I see hope and wish you the best.


Good luck.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

OP. 

I'm a wife who's hub been trying to win me back for 3+yr. 
Ill tell you where he has failed to win my heart. ((other than the fact he cheated on me)) 

He has been Mr. Nice guy way tooo much. Has given me everything he can possible give me. If only he would walk away from me maybe I could forgive him. 

He has worked on himself, to improve himself in ways that he was so anal in the past, but he is now a guy that I dont know. Yes, he is much improved in a lot of way, and much better in a lot of way, for himself, but I dont know who he is now. He use to worry a lot of money and of the future, but now he lives in the present, and I dont like his so carefree attitude because, he isnt who I fell in love with. 

He now tries so many new things in life from the foods he eats to the way he dresses, to the things he buys to the places he travels to, to the ideas he is open to, to the movies he watch, to the cars he buys, to what he does everyday, to the many weeks or months of his 'bucket list," hoping that I will see that he can & has change. The problem is, I never wanted him to change. I loved him as he was, and wanted to grow old with him as anal as he was, but the cheating changed things for me. 

We too still stay in touch w each other 24/7, but the separation has made each other not really know each other anymore than on the surface past the pleasantries. I have no idea if he has been sexual with any other women, thou I cant imagine not, being 3 year apart. 

Sometimes people just fall out of love. 

My girlfriend tells me her marriage started out with a lot of little disappointments that kept just building on top of each other until it became to a point where she just didnt love her hub anymore. He didnt really do anything wrong either. She just fell out of love as the disappointment just grew and grew. 

But I can tell you this,no matter how much it hurts when someone tell you they dont want to be around you, there is nothing you can do about it but accept it. You cant make someone like you... 

~sammy


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

Hey people, thanks for all of the comments, and I have taken everything in.. Just a quick update to share with you all..

Over the last 5 days I have chosen to go the full James Bond to find out whether she has been involved with anyone else.. I hired an investigations officer to track and record, and his search proved fruitless in terms of OM..

All of her movements have been pretty much the same over 5 days.. Kids to school, work, kids from school etc.. No male visitors (only 3 females from what has been reported) and no meeting males anywhere else in public.. Nothing different has shown up in phone records, social media or email.. No untoward phone calls have taken place either if there is another phone (let your minds imagine as to how it came about that)..

There would almost definitely nothing happening in the workplace as it is predominantly female, with only 1 male who is flamboyantly, fabulously homosexual!!.. The only thing if there is someone else is that she has turned lesbian, but knowing her it is HIGHLY doubtful!!..

Anyway, I have still been working on myself and am improving everyday.. I have reduced contact with her to every second day, and that is only a brief conversation.. I'm still having bad days, but things are looking up!!.. Still no definite signs of a possible reconciliation, but time will tell.. It's only 6 weeks in to it all!!..


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

You said that you share an Apple iTunes account w/ her, correct? Try this...



GusPolinski said:


> Wondershare Dr. Fone
> 
> The above link is for the Mac version of Wondershare's Dr. Fone app. There is a Windows version available as well.
> 
> ...


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Wonder how the Apple celeb hacking thing is affecting the above.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

weightlifter said:


> Wonder how the Apple celeb hacking thing is affecting the above.


Apple has pledged to make changes in order to ensure that the accounts of iOS/iCloud customers are better protected (they mentioned adding notifications to the "restore" process). From what I've seen thus far, however, there has been no impact w/ respect to using WDF to download/export iCloud backups. Not sure if they perhaps just haven't gotten around to implementing the changes just yet, or if 3rd-party apps just won't be impacted.

Honestly, though, I'm thinking it's the former. Time will tell. If and when I notice changes, I'll report them here.


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

Gus, she isn't here so I can't physically plug the phone in, but it backs up to iCloud daily, and I'm going be the stuff I see in those backup, and carrier phone records..

So, she went out for a girls night last night (didn't tell me but I knew from other sources), so I got my investigator to tail her for one more night..

Once again, all was above board.. According to the investigator, she didn't even talk to any males (apart from bartenders when ordering drinks), and from what they saw, here phone wasn't even touched during the course of the evening.. She took a cab home alone at 4am, and had no visitors.. She left her place at 10am roughly and went to pick up the kids from her parents.. That was the end of that tailing..

That would have been perfect timing if there was an OM, but it didn't happen so I think cheating isn't there..

I didn't expect to know what she was doing as I'm still 180'ing, and didn't ask or give her an opportunity to mention it..

Anyway, the conversation we had this evening was a bit warmer than usual, and she wanted to keep me on the phone.. Even sent me a few texts later about nothing really, to which I took my time replying to, if at all on a couple..

I'm not looking too far in to anything, but it is good to see the warmth back in a way..


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## Fenix (Jul 2, 2013)

Love4Mywife said:


> Gus, she isn't here so I can't physically plug the phone in, but it backs up to iCloud daily, and I'm going be the stuff I see in those backup, and carrier phone records..
> 
> So, she went out for a girls night last night (didn't tell me but I knew from other sources), so I got my investigator to tail her for one more night..
> 
> ...


Yes, until she finds out you were having her tailed. Then, you've lost her.

Let's see...verbally abusive, intimidation techniques and now, having her tailed. What does that say?


I feel sorry for your wife.


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

Well Fenix, you can thank the cheater bandwagon on here for the tailing.. Everything I read says "find out for certain".. I did, and now I'm having that held against me??..

Can't win either way by the look of it!!..


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

Also, you have to understand what I mean by "verbally abusive" and "intimidation".. You seem to think that I am heavily overbearing, when realistically, it was things I said in the heat of the moment.. The intimidation was more raising my voice etc.. 

As I have said previously, I am workng on my issues, and am coming along in leaps and bounds..


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

Just to also add, I never even considered that she was cheating at any stage, EA or PA, but every comment I see is that she is..

Someone is in a vulnerable state of mind and has that drilled in to their head on here as that is what's going on, how do you expect someone to react??..

I came here for help/advice as it seemed like a good place, but now I am being put down due to taking action to rule all options out??..

Good one!!..


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Love4Mywife said:


> Just to also add, I never even considered that she was cheating at any stage, EA or PA, but every comment I see is that she is..
> 
> Someone is in a vulnerable state of mind and has that drilled in to their head on here as that is what's going on, how do you expect someone to react??..
> 
> ...




NO NO NO! 

Love4Mywife don't take it that way.

This has been debated ad infinitum around here forever, and there are two camps (or 6 or 12 IDK when divided into specific qualifications)

Those that never do it.

Those that do it only in the face of clear infidelity, etc etc etc

Personally I think you can follow your conscience and you are fine. I would have done it too.

Almost always ILYBIANILWY means there is someone else, that is the rule here, yours may be an exception.

Don't sweat it every body has an opinion, now you Know.

BTW Weightlifter is a great guy who helps a lot of people here.

You are doing great, just take what helps here and try to leave the rest.

I wish you well.
Take care!


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Love4Mywife said:


> Just to also add, I never even considered that she was cheating at any stage, EA or PA, but every comment I see is that she is..
> 
> Someone is in a vulnerable state of mind and has that drilled in to their head on here as that is what's going on, how do you expect someone to react??..
> 
> ...


Nah man, you're doing OK. Be vigilant, but don't go overboard w/ it.

And as for what you read here, take what applies and leave the rest.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Decorum said:


> NO NO NO!
> 
> Love4Mywife don't take it that way.
> 
> ...


Yep. The key word there is "almost".

Either way, continue to be vigilant, and don't EVER tip your hand w/ regard to *how* you know *what* you know.


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

Thanks Decorum and Gus..

I am not going to get anyone else to look etc from now on anyway.. I have proved to myself that nothing is going on, so it does certainly all boil back to falling out of love.. At least I know I can have a fair shot at working on this, without any outside influences..


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

L4MW,

Don't take the criticism too harshly.

You are afraid of losing your WAW, so you checked to find out if she had a lover. The answer so far is negative. That should give you some encouragement.

Getting a WAW back is difficult. Once a woman checks out the chances are not good, but you may beat the odds.


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## Fenix (Jul 2, 2013)

Love4Mywife said:


> Well Fenix, you can thank the cheater bandwagon on here for the tailing.. Everything I read says "find out for certain".. I did, and now I'm having that held against me??..
> 
> Can't win either way by the look of it!!..


Oh, I know. You have to be careful with the advice you receive. There are a lot of bitter people here. Many people hear your story and filter it only through their own experiences. Put me in the camp that if you don't suspect cheating and your gut is saying no, go with that. Be smart but do not be paranoid.



Love4Mywife said:


> Also, you have to understand what I mean by "verbally abusive" and "intimidation".. You seem to think that I am heavily overbearing, when realistically, it was things I said in the heat of the moment.. The intimidation was more raising my voice etc..
> 
> As I have said previously, I am workng on my issues, and am coming along in leaps and bounds..


Good for you! The detective crap is distracting you from that. With my comments of verbal intimidation etc, I was just going from your remarks on name calling and descriptions.



Love4Mywife said:


> Just to also add, I never even considered that she was cheating at any stage, EA or PA, but every comment I see is that she is..
> 
> Someone is in a vulnerable state of mind and has that drilled in to their head on here as that is what's going on, how do you expect someone to react??..
> 
> ...


It snowballs,L4mw. Be careful. I think it is almost a mob mentality and there is some misogyny wrapped up in it. There is also a lot of hurt out there. Believe me, I get it. I was married to a serial cheater. But their/my situation is not yours. You have a choice to make. To either believe the worst of your wife (regardless of what your gut is saying) or not. There is and has never been a shred of evidence and your gut is saying no, go with that until the situation changes.

Work on yourself first, get happy and don't play any games. Do what you need to do to sleep well at night. Right now, it is all about you.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Love4Mywife said:


> Well Fenix, you can thank the cheater bandwagon on here for the tailing.. Everything I read says "find out for certain".. I did, and now I'm having that held against me??..
> 
> Can't win either way by the look of it!!..


You are doing fine. Realize there are those exactly opposite the investigators. 

Congratulations, you beat crazy odds.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Love4Mywife said:


> Thanks Decorum and Gus..
> 
> I am not going to get anyone else to look etc from now on anyway.. I have proved to myself that nothing is going on, so it does certainly all boil back to falling out of love.. At least I know I can have a fair shot at working on this, without any outside influences..


There's another possibility that you should consider, IMO. I'm hesitant to even bring it up, but I feel the need to sort of "go there", so here goes...

Just because your wife hasn't cheated/isn't cheating... _well, that doesn't mean that she's not looking to do so._ Additionally, the fact that you're separated would make it all too easy for her from a couple of different perspectives...

1) The lack of physical proximity between the two of you would make the logistics of cheating much, Much, MUCH easier to manage.

2) It would be all the easier for her to rationalize an affair since you're separated. Did the two of you discuss dating/seeing/sex w/ others while separated? If so, which of the two of you brought it up?

So, I'll say it again... *STAY VIGILANT.*


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

Thanks again guys for the help, motivation and support.. I realise there are many different ideals on here, and I am now going to pick and choose the info that I need, but take everything in..



GusPolinski said:


> There's another possibility that you should consider, IMO. I'm hesitant to even bring it up, but I feel the need to sort of "go there", so here goes...
> 
> Just because your wife hasn't cheated/isn't cheating... _well, that doesn't mean that she's not looking to do so._ Additionally, the fact that you're separated would make it all too easy for her from a couple of different perspectives...
> 
> ...


I have contemplated this Gus, and I do understand where you are coming from.. The dating/seeing/sex thing was never bought up in a calm manner, and was only bought up by my wife during my "needy, begging and pleading" stage.. I realise now that I actually royally p!ssing her off, and the "move on, if I date I date etc" was basically said as a "shut up".. I have asked since and although it wasn't made steadfast (I began not wanting to rock the boat too much), it was agreed that there was no intent, nor want, to do any of the above.. She actually got a bit peeved and said she was more worried about making sure the kids are ok over everything else, and knowing her, I believe that fully..


Anyway, no big updates today.. Had a bit of a rough night and first part of the day.. It's amazing how a dream can set the rollercoaster in motion!!.. Feeling A LOT better later in the day and now.. I'd say the 180 is working it's magic as I didn't have the feeling all day as you do early in the split..

She changed her Facebook status to single, and this hasn't been a shock to me as we have always said if we split etc, there will be none of this "It's complicated, separated or divorced".. It's either married or single, and I'm cool with that.. In doing this I am no longer on her Facebook family list BUT she hasn't removed any of my family from that list, and they are all still in-laws..

Funny enough too, all of our wedding pics and pics of us together are now public so I haven't fully been pushed out!!..

I am getting ready to move back near the kids, and should be there in 4-5 weeks after tying up some loose ends.. She has welcomed this move with open arms (figuratively), and then I can concentrate on them, and let whatever happen between me and W to happen.. Women find men who dote on their kids to be highly sexy, so who knows (not that I didn't dote on them before)!!.. I know it's going to take a bit to reel this fish in though!!..


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Good post.

Your WAW may not be eager to date. If she mature, she wants to heal first, then date. That is also risky for your prospects of reconciliation.

But your plan is sound. Get back close to your kids.

Don't be needy. She has to seduce you. You cannot chase. Chase and she is gone.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Agree with Gus and you.

I agree on no more PI... for now.

Let me prep you for something. Men are going to come sniffing around... she may take them up on it. She considers herself single and the probability of reconcile just went down EXPONENTIALLY.

Work on healing yourself and being the nerd I am...

SHIELDS UP!


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Also consider some LOW level anxiety meds. It wont kill the pain but it will make it bearable.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

weightlifter said:


> Agree with Gus and you.
> 
> I agree on no more PI... for now.
> 
> ...


Yep.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

As a wife of name-calling huband wiht twenty years of experience, I can tell you that name calling and aggressive arguments is something that can kill the best relationship for good. It goes against one of the basics of sucessful relationship - respect. Every time you have called her name - you killed another piece of her love for you. It is betrayal of love and trust. In the arguments you are always on top, twisting her words? if that's the case, read "In ship's clothing" and see if this is about you. 

if you want to know more how she migh feel, you can read my post in "Considering Divorce or separation", title "no affection left - is this reversible". you might find it helpful.


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## Fenix (Jul 2, 2013)

weightlifter said:


> Agree with Gus and you.
> 
> I agree on no more PI... for now.
> 
> ...



Yes. Be prepared for it. Work on yourself. This may not be a sprint.


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## Vulcan2013 (Sep 25, 2013)

You might check out Bagdon's thread. Similar situation, and he worked on himself aNd won his wife back. (And, fw as worried about cheating, and confirmed she wasn't).


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

Cheers for the heads up on that thread Vulcan.. I just spent 2 hours reading the lot, and it does give me some hope to hear a good news story.. The biggest difference is his wife was still under the same roof, whereas mine isn't.. It is still a work in progress though, and things aren't getting better R wise, or worse.. 

I have to keep reminding myself that it is only 6 weeks since she left (it feels like an eternity), and that this is a marathon, not a sprint..

I love my wife and kids dearly, and there is nothing more I want in this world than to be a complete family again.. Let it be known that I WILL NOT give up on us.. One day the fog will lift, and I will either be read for her, or ready to go it alone..

I am working on myself, and that is for me and me only.. If she sees these changes and likes them, well that is my good luck.. If she doesn't like them, then I will know that I have given it my best, that I have changed for the better, that my kids will have a better dad and the next person that will romantically enter my life will be better for it..

Having said that, I'm only 1 mile in to a round the world journey.. GAME ON!!..


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Btw if it is unclear. I am cheering for you not against you.

Its just that ive seen this before...

Single status thing.... She sees herself that way.

I truly hope you get to tell me im wrong. Unfortunately im not usually wrong long term.


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

Just a quick update.. No real change to anything at the moment.. I'm not expecting an overnight change either (as we have established), BUT something was said while talking a couple of nights ago that made my ears prick up..

W and myself were talking about a small family issue (not our issue but something to do with another part of the family), and along the talk of conversation she started a sentence with "if we get back together".. Now what we were talking about had nothing to do with getting back together, nor did getting back together have anything to do with the issue..

A small glimmer of hope maybe considering how things have been going over the last week or 2??.. I don't know, and I'm not looking too far in to it, but it must mean that R and M is on her mind in some way.. The 180 say don't believe anything you hear, so I'm taking with a grain of salt for now..


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Right on. If you leapt for that verbal bait, you'd look desperate. Steady as she goes. She set you up to detach. So you must detach. Work on yourself. She will see it.

Action is what counts. If she says stay the night and expects you to lead her to bed and then talks about reconciliation that is action.


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

Hey guys and girls.. I haven't forgotten about this!!.. I've had a hectic few days and haven't really had time for posting..

Anyway, here is a bit of an update..

So, things have just been cruising along, with no real changes either way (I take that as a positive at the moment).. Had a small stuff up with communication the other day which seems to have been forgotten about.. We bought the kids an iPod (1 between them) so they could Facetime me whenever they wanted.. It had a cracked screen so the W asked if I could fix it (I do this as a side business) and that she would pay me.. I said yes I would and ordered the parts.. She asked how much she needed to give me and I said don't worry about it, we will sort something out.. Her reply was "you're not getting sex for it" (or close enough to it).. This made me have a bit of a bite back and I told her that really she couldn't afford it, and I was doing it for the kids.. Yeah, I kind of took the bait, but I was calm in saying it, and my reply seemed to ring true to her..

Righto, so fast forward to the last couple of days, and now I can Facetime the kids directly I have decided to give almost full NC with the W a go.. Here is a bit of a funny one about it..

I had a bit of FaceTime with the kids again last night, and kept NC with the W.. All well and good at this point.. 5 mins later S9 facetimes me again to ask a question, and the W and I had a very brief chat about a parcel that I am waiting on..

Now, roughly 30 mins after this I got a text from W regarding a laugh moment.. I kept the comms short and sweet and to the point (3 text convo) and I finished it off..

Fast forward to about an hour after this and I got a text from her regarding nothing in particular.. Just chat.. Now it wasn't that I ignored this text, but merely didn't hear it.. About 45 mins after this text I got a msg saying "What's your problem".. I replied that I was busy, once again kept the comms to the point and short..

So ultimately, even though it wasn't intended, NC seems to be pi$$ing her off!!.. What I need to know is, should I continue on the NC path, or am I going to cause damage to any forward movement by doing it??..


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

You are doing fine.
Not texting her back right away is the right thing to do it shows she doesn't have the control she thought she had and you are strong.
I mean what the heck she moved out and she's mad you don't drop everything for her?:scratchhead:
Good job.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

As long as you are not an A-hole about NC, she shouldn't be offended. After all she has cut you off nearly 100%, so her rationing of smidgens of conversation is a reminder of the inequality of your suspended ties.

It is hard for us grasp her comment about "not getting sex" as payment. Was it tongue and cheek? She brought up transactional sex. Perhaps it says something about her own state of mind. Horny? Maybe she doesn't want you back, but has not summoned the courage to tell you. Maybe she doesn't know herself for sure.

Kolors, whose thread you might "enjoy" reading, went through a long dance with this STBX over her desire to end their marriage. At last he moved out and began to live a new life. But now that the actual divorce has to be worked out, custody and child support, she is not entirely happy. She no longer has control. He doesn't know if she is dating and doesn't care much. He is seeing other women. That may where you'll be in some months time.

I am not suggesting that you give on you reconciliation, but as you see NC (or at least a 180) is raising your sex ranking.

If you are happy and good humored, your wife is more likely to desire you back. But this is all clear to you now.


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

Longwalk, I think the not getting sex part may have been tongue in cheek.. When I asked "why did you say that", she said that "who knows what you are thinking".. Admittedly when payment was spoken about, I did say "we will work something out" so it could have been construed that way, but I explained to her that I meant if I was short on my share of the phone bill one time that she could cover it (we still have mobiles on the same plan)..

I can't help but to mind read, but it seems as though she is not sure herself.. I'm only coming on to 8 weeks in to S so it's only early days yet.. TBH, if she 100% didn't want me back then I don't think cougar to tell me would be an issue for her..

At the moment she is doing the WAW script of talking in negatives, but I am sensing a change in her patterns of communication from day one to now..

Not looking too much in to it, but even things she has liked on FB have changed from "stuff my ex" type of stuff to "holy carp, what have I done" stuff.. I know that's looked a bit deep in to it, but it does say something about the train of thought..


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

Tom, 

Thank you for the encouragement!!..


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## vn1955 (Jun 30, 2014)

I'm in the same boat. My husband and I have been separated for six months. I did the 180 with no contact. It was the hardest thing I ever had to do, but it did work. Our separation was due to infidelity (like most, I never thought he'd be unfaithful). I stopped all contact, except in regard to our kids. Three weeks ago he texted me saying he missed me and wanted to come home. Unfortunately, a few days later, he changed his mind. Left me heartbroken again. But I've recovered. I too got the "I'm not in love with you". In reality, they're confused and don't know what they want. Give it time. Be patient and you need to let her miss you and see the differences you've made. My husband is again being super nice, which means that he may want to reconcile, but I'm just not ready to take that step just yet. Separation is harder than they think. I never imagine my husband would want to reconcile after the awful things he said to me, but time and space makes them lonely and has them realize what they'll be losing.


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

Vn, I fully agree with you there.. I'm giving it my best!!..


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Well, at least you have one joke to use in the future if she asks for something out of the ordinary.


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

So it seems like the W is trying to reach out to me a bit more, but I can't be 100% certain.. I've got a couple of texts off her regarding joint financial matters, and have kept my replies short and sweet and to the point.. A couple of days ago when I was texted about a matter I replied with "cool" as the only response (that was all that was needed as a response to the particular question) and I got a reply with "Okay..".. 

Now I know that seems like a pretty typical response to most people, but I know my W and when she uses .. behind a word, it usually means either:

A - She doesn't believe me, or is annoyed at what I have said, or

B - She has had the conversation end before she is ready

Either way, after hearing her early in the S saying "I don't have to talk to you every time the kids call" or "I don't want to talk to you every day", it seems like lately she has been forthcoming with contact (initiated by her) on a fairly regular basis since I started almost full NC.. It has been a 50/50 split between business and just chatting.. As mentioned in an earlier post, she seemed to reach out for a chat, and we chatted a good 45 mins - 1 hour even when I didn't intend to..

Baby steps is what I will take!!..

Also, some good news came my way a couple of days ago!!.. I have found a tenant to take over my lease, have found an apartment to stay in, and in 2 days will be making the 2000km trek to be closer to my kids!!.. I can't wait!!.. W and I have spoken, and I will have them for 5 days straight when I arrive, which should be great for all of us.. I know the kids have been missing me dearly, and after 2 months the W could use some downtime..

Now, by then it will have been 9.5 weeks since I have been in the vicinity of W, and I plan to show PMA, act "as-if" and have no expectations of what is going to happen (good or bad) even though she seems to be softening..

What worries me is how do I act otherwise??.. I'm not meaning personally as I am getting some of my old self back, and at this moment I think I can handle the emotions that will likely flow (although I'm libel to cry when I see the kids, it's only human nature).. What I mean is, if she wants to hug me, or give me a kiss etc, do I reciprocate in a non overly enthusiastic way, or do I play it down??..

Silly I know, but I don't want to come off in a bad a way that undoes any of the groundwork so far..


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

Oh, another thing.. I did a good deed done for the day.. As part of my 180's, I decided to help others a bit more, whether less needy or not.. Well as I am moving, I had a cupboard full of in date, unopened food that I can't/don't want to take with me on my trek..

Lets just say a family of battlers with 5 kids are now feeling very happy, and I am feeling warm and fuzzy inside myself!!..

I've also had a thought that popped in to my head today, and I'm hoping that someone may have been in the same situation, or may be able to give their opinion on it..

Now, as I've stated, I copped the ILYBNILWY after we moved states to a place where neither of us know.. Here is the question, could the move or more homesickness for that matter caused W to drop the bomb??.. I know it may not be the only thing, or anything to do with it, but like most of us my WAS never really gave any indication before the move (the more I think of it, the more there weren't even signs) so it just got me thinking..


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Good work.

What was going on in her head. Well, only she can tell you someday if you reconcile.

When you meet up you can hug her if she reaches out to you. A hug doesn't necessarily mean a whole lot.

You'll get to see your kids. That will be enough to get you feeling positive.

You're in a for a long struggle.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Love4Mywife said:


> I'm a little frustrated that most relationship problems on here are met with a response about cheating etc.. Is it not possible to lose the love over time due to a persons actions??..


It's not that "most relationship problems on here are met with a response about cheating".

There are lots of relationship problems on here that have nothing to do with cheating. 

But yours? When one spouse suddenly cuts out of a relationship, leaving the other partner baffled and surprised, and even "shocked" as you put it, it's statistically very rare that there is not an involved 3rd party.

What's worse is when you have a possibly betrayed spouse such as yourself who won't even consider the possibility of an affair because you "share all the accounts".

Your wife isn't stupid. She knows you share all the accounts. So if she's having an affair she'll find another way to communicate. It's a lot easier than you think. It happens all the time. 

In your case, because you're not living together, not even in the same state, she has a lot of leeway and a lot of freedom to do as she pleases. At least consider the possibility.


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

lenzi said:


> It's not that "most relationship problems on here are met with a response about cheating".
> 
> There are lots of relationship problems on here that have nothing to do with cheating.
> 
> ...


Lenzi, it's 2.5 months down the road now, and there hasn't even been a sign of OM at all.. I still have a great relationship with her family and our mutual friends (which are the people she hangs around).. 

In that time frame, one way or another, I know most of where she has been, who she has seen, what she has down and nearly how many times she has farted.. I don't want to know all of this, but it gets back to me..

Forgive me if I'm wrong but I think by now if there was OM, the kids, friends, family or someone else would have had an inkling or know about it as it would be hard to hide for this long..

Don't worry, I have considered it, but I just can't see any reason for me to keep considering it if there are absolutely no signs.. That would be a sure fire way to mentally destroy myself, and ruin any chance of R if I keep believing in something that hasn't surfaced..

I honestly think I am bucking the statistical trend, and I'm also leaning toward the fact of homesickness causing the decision the more I think about it.. That would explain why the decision to S came out of nowhere (in my eyes anyway)..


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

WAW without an affair is also a terrible sign for a marriage. Maybe it is even worse because the WAW is completely checked out.

You need to change yourself and at the same time you have little contact, so the change may not make a difference.


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

Well I'm not going to lie, today has been plain straight F'ed up..

Packing things up for my move, and realising that I have to throw away or sell half of the stuff myself and W have worked hard for the last 10 years to acquire.. I just couldn't fit it all in, and can't book a trailer etc..

To top it off, W seems to be a bit distant toward me in our convo's today, although that could be because I am coming across a little stressed due to the issues I have come up with with moving.. Mentally, I have taken a taken a hammering, but in 3 days time I will have the kids and that gives me something to look forward to..

I intend to be looking my absolute best when I get there to see them.. The hair is cut, the body is trimmed (separation diet works wonders!!), the face is shaved and by that stage the mental attitude will be up there.. If not I'll fake it til I make it!!..


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## Fenix (Jul 2, 2013)

Love4Mywife said:


> Well I'm not going to lie, today has been plain straight F'ed up..
> 
> Packing things up for my move, and realising that I have to throw away or sell half of the stuff myself and W have worked hard for the last 10 years to acquire.. I just couldn't fit it all in, and can't book a trailer etc..
> 
> ...


She could be stressed about seeing you as well.


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

Fenix said:


> She could be stressed about seeing you as well.


You could be right there too Fenix.. I'd be looking too far in to it to think of why (good or bad), but it's quite possible that the fact the kids will be away from her for 5 days may be good for her to have some time to herself (I agree that she deserves some time off after 2.5 months of caring for them on her own, even if she decided to put herself in that situation), but it could also be a reality check that this is how it is going to be from now on, and she may not like it..

I had a bit of a stuff up talking with W earlier.. One of the kids mentioned they had a sleepover at one of the W's friends place (she has kids roughly the same age and have known each other for years).. They have never had a sleepover there before so I asked if mum stayed too.. I heard her say in the background "why are you asking that"??..

Well after I got off the phone w/kids I called her and mentioned that they haven't slept over there before hence why I was wondering.. She said that she stayed there with them because she didn't want to catch a taxi home, so I asked if she had been drinking.. She said yes, and didn't want to risk driving (fair point as without a licence she would be in a world of hurt)..

My mind hasn't been with it today, so I fired back with "it seems like you are acting like a teenager all over again".. Well this started a line of conversation which led me to coming across as needy and probably other things (telling her I wanted us to work things out etc)..

I have mentioned to her previously that the last thing I wanted to do was annoy her, and it seems in this last talk I succeeded in doing that.. I could tell by her speech, and because she told me straight out.. I texted her later to apologise, and mentioned that I have been under a bit of stress with the packing etc.. I got a positive reply of that was fine..

I can't help but to mind read, but I'm thinking that she is thinking I am only coming back to stress her about R+M.. Back to square 1 I suppose..


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Why are you talking with her on the phone about the move? Your stress, etc. She does not care about your stress. She wouldn't have put you in this position if she cared.

You told her about all the stuff you bought together that now has to be sold or dumped. She doesn't care about it. She calculated that the loss of stuff was unimportant. Her goal was to dump you. The financial loss was incidental.

Stop thinking about what is making her happy or will impress her. She is not very interested. You are just reinforcing the "wisdom" of her decision.

All you should think about is the 180 and moving on. The longer you prolong your needy despair, the harder it will all be. I am not trying to dash your hopes. Your wife have expressed herself explicitly and with determined action.

To have any possibility of saving your marriage you have to risk losing it. Move on. When she sees that you are going to make it without her, maybe she will want you back. But that is a big maybe and by that point, you may not want her back.

If you have a yard sale, don't tell your ex about it. Just pocket the money. You need it all.


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## Fenix (Jul 2, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> Why are you talking with her on the phone about the move? Your stress, etc. She does not care about your stress. She wouldn't have put you in this position if she cared.
> 
> You told her about all the stuff you bought together that now has to be sold or dumped. She doesn't care about it. She calculated that the loss of stuff was unimportant. Her goal was to dump you. The financial loss was incidental.
> 
> ...


Oh, she might care. But it is very secondary. Otherwise, I agree with everything LW wrote.


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> Why are you talking with her on the phone about the move? Your stress, etc. She does not care about your stress. She wouldn't have put you in this position if she cared.
> 
> You told her about all the stuff you bought together that now has to be sold or dumped. She doesn't care about it. She calculated that the loss of stuff was unimportant. Her goal was to dump you. The financial loss was incidental.
> 
> ...



LW, I was talking to her about the move because of the logistics involved w/kids etc.. Neither of us thought I would need to get rid of anything, hence why I mentioned it.. I never really spoke to her about my stress until I got a bit snakey and wanted to explain my actions as to why.. We had been having some decent conversations recently, and that is why I wanted to smooth things over..

I have been doing well lately in not trying to impress her, and it is the first time I have come across needy in a while (even she mentioned this).. 

I did sell up most of the stuff, and the cash is mine so I can get my feet back on the ground.. 

I'll be on the road in 4-5 hours now and the crap will be alleviated.. I'm just now hanging to see the kids!!..


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Drive safely


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

Cheers LW..


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

I hope it goes well brother.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

DAMN I hope Im wrong.


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

I haven't seen any outward signs yet weightlifter.. 

From the first day I posted here to now, and everything that has happened in between, I am expecting it and kind of hoping for it as them there would be a full on reason behind everything instead of the WAW script..

I have to say, from everything I have heard (and not heard), and have had relayed back to me (not that I've asked for that to happen) there has been no contact with any males in that respect at all..


Anyway, the drive went good, and I am awaiting the ferry for the overnight journey now.. Spoke to W and kids before getting here and to be honest, she seemed excited about my arrival.. Nothing was physically said, but tone of voice and demeanour gave it away..

Time for me to do my thing, and get this M possibly on the right track again.. If it doesn't happen, going to be a better man overall anyway..

I can't wait to see the look on the kids faces tomorrow afternoon.. They have no idea that I am coming back (my request to surprise them)!!..


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Don't run up and hug your wife. If you make contact, let her do it. Get the kids and leave her as soon as possible. Be polite, friendly but not emotional available.

If she makes contact with you and wants to kiss ok, but don't be needy.


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

Sorry for the delay in replying to anything guys.. I have had a BIG few days with the kids catching up on lost time, and it was a ball!!.. The kids have now gone back to W's, but I have them again next weekend with plenty planned!!.. W seemed happy to hear that they had a lot of fun when they explained to her what we have been up to..

W arrived to pick up S6+8 just as I finished cooking tea, and said there was extra in the oven for her if she wanted some.. She mentioned she wasn't hungry as she had been out to lunch.. Well I put some headlight globes in her car that I purchased before the move (these weren't a gift to her, more of a safety improvement over the standard globes, and I got them dirt cheap), and came back in to grab a tool I had forgotten and found her eating some.. She mentioned that it smelt too good, and since when did I cook up something like this (one of my 180's has been to cook better stuff than something fried/grilled etc).. I just said that I wanted to try something different and left it at that..

I finished the job and came back inside (W had been watching the kids play games) and mentioned to her that it was all done and expected her to up and go.. I got a bit of a shock when she said that I had better make her a coffee before she went..

I did the above mentioned (I was keen on one myself) and we sat down and chatted.. Nothing in particular, but just good friendly chat.. I kept PMA up, validated when need be, and looked her in the eye and LISTENED to everything she had to say.. 

One thing I noticed that she was talking a lot about "stuff WE had" or "stuff WE once had" (material things).. Not much I know, but for the first time in person since S she was mentioning WE.. I'm not getting excited but it seems like a positive sign.. She also noticed new clothes I was wearing, and mentioned they looked good.. I also made sure I was shaved and smelled good!!.. I would say she noticed, but didn't say much..

I wonder what is next (if anything)!!..


Edited to mention that the headlight globes were bought up in a previous conversation a while ago, and I asked her not to worry about paying for them not because they were a gift, but because I looked at them as a safety improvement to her car.. It is the car that the kids are ferried around in, and not that there was anything wrong with the ones in there, but these ones are brighter and better.. Also, it is a pretty in depth job on the particular car and I wanted to handle it seeing as though I handled all those types of issues in M, and although we are S it is a good way to show that I am still the man.. 

She NEVER asked me to do this for her.. I did it all off my own back..


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

All sounds very... positive. 

Just remember to rein it in, there's still a long road to an as yet undetermined destination. As others have said on TAM, let her come back to you, if she does at all.


I'm in a similar situation, so appreciate what you're going through.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Just plug on. 

Must have been a heck of a drive.


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> Just plug on.
> 
> Must have been a heck of a drive.


Sure was LW.. Close to 2000km in 27 hours.. Well worth it though to see the look on the kids faces!!..


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

Long time, no update people, so here goes!!..

I've had a couple of great weekends with the kids since I have been back, and talks between myself and W have got a bit more free flowing over time as well.. She is also wanting to spend a bit of time around me as well.. No outings as yet, but when the kids are picked up or dropped off, there is always a couple of coffees involved, and a decent chat about what has been happening in life.. We usually sit and talk for around an hour if not a bit more.. I listen to her as much as I can, and validate where need be.. I am trying to make most of the talk about HER instead of me..

To me, W seems to be softening a bit more.. We had a chat the other night after the boys were in bed and she mentioned about a couple of times I had questioned her in the past over her activities, and why I did it.. I said to her it is because I care and that I love her (first time I have told her I love her in 2 months).. I also mentioned that we both need to live our separate lives and be great parents for our kids (which we both are), but there is also ALWAYS going to be care and love there for her from me (probably not the right thing to say, but it fitted with the tone of the conversation at that point in time)..

She had her rebuttal by saying that she will always care about what I do too but stopped short of saying anything about love.. In the past she has says she doesn't care about me dating etc, and doesn't care about anything I do.. Well in this conversation that particular mood kind of changed.. I mentioned to her that we are very similar in feelings etc and that I know she would care, to which she admitted that she would (once again, probably not the best thing to say, but it suited the tone).. She also said she does care about my getting out there (not her word), and would be happy to see me do things but she can see a herself being territorial with dating.. I know this doesn't mean much to most of you (the territorial part), but we have ALWAYS said we aren't jealous of each other, but we are territorial (jealousy is for things you don't have, being territorial is for things you do)..

Funnily enough, there was no talk of not getting back together this time (which usually precludes these chats), but there was no talk of getting back together either..

I didn't initiate any of this conversation at all, but just listened, validated and answered where I needed to in what I deemed to be the appropriate manner..

After the "in depth" sort of talk, we just spoke more casually (the deeper talk seemed light as well though and not full or serious R talk) and she mentioned she was at home bored, but not feeling too well because of a cold.. I told her me and the boys were about to have pizza and watch a movie and left it at that.. Her response was "I'd like to watch it and have pizza, but I don't want to make you sick".. Once again I left it at that instead of saying "come over it doesn't matter".. I put out the offer without directly asking or making it, and she responded at least..

I asked her what she is doing for the boys for halloween (not a big thing where we are) and she mentioned not much.. I said that maybe I/we should take them trick or treating (I don't have them next weekend).. W caught me off guard when she said "we should all get dressed up and go around".. I said are you serious, and W said that she would think about it, but either way I could pick up the kids and take them.. When I mentioned about costumes she said I should go as someone with their head chopped off, and she would be the person with the bloody machete!!.. I laughed, said that would be right and agreed that it would be funny.. We both got a good chuckle anyway!!..

We worked out that the easiest/cheapest costume for the boys would be zombies (they are right in to them at the moment), so a visit to an op shop is in order to get a couple of little suits to make a mess of, then the fake blood etc as well.. It should be fun for us even if W decides not to go!!..

All in all, whether the walls are coming down or not, I don't know but everything seems to be coming along more freely lately.. I'm trying my hardest not to push too hard, and to stay at the right distance.. I'm still keeping it in my mind that I am nowhere near the finish line yet, even though I can kind of see it in the distance, through a telescope!!..

Anyway, I'm taking a small win here I think.. As you all would have read earlier in my thread, soon after S, W changed her relationship status on FB to "single".. Well after our chat she has since hidden any relationship status (so it says none to show).. Nothing major I know, but to me it makes her seem less on the market..

Also, last night was a bit of a first in a while too.. I got a message later at night (around my bed time) asking how my day at work was.. Again, nothing major, but it sort of is for me as talk like that purely about my day hasn't happened in a while.. A small text chat ensued and I broke it off nicely after a few messages..

Seems like thing may be heading the right way slowly, but I'm not looking too far in to it all..


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Her FB status as single – that is huge. Taking that down is also significant.

Your WAW may have fantasized about a new man. You were phased out before she left. However, being a single mom and finding some great replacemen for the flawed husband may not be so easy. Does she want to hook up? WAW who hook up a lot have difficulty getting into LTR. In part, they may get into sexual adventure. Men may also sense that they get sex without commitment.

The new you may be enough to satisfy her desire for romance. 

Halloween may be a good date.


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> Her FB status as single – that is huge. Taking that down is also significant.
> 
> Your WAW may have fantasized about a new man. You were phased out before she left. However, being a single mom and finding some great replacemen for the flawed husband may not be so easy. Does she want to hook up? WAW who hook up a lot have difficulty getting into LTR. In part, they may get into sexual adventure. Men may also sense that they get sex without commitment.
> 
> ...



LW, I thought the hiding of the "single" status on FB was a fairly big thing in my eyes.. 

It's funny you say about the great replacement as in the same chat she did say "have you seen the amount of derro's around here".. Basically, it seems as though the real world of finding someone better might not be as bright as she thought (if that was even the mindframe)..

AFAIK she has never been one for just a hookup.. It took me a while when we first started seeing each other, so if that is any indication then I'd have to say no.. One of the hardest that I've had to get the pants off and that's how I knew she was wife material!!.. I can only say from personal experience though as we never really spoke about ex's.. She knew about my escapades from my younger days, but that was a bragging point!!..

I have definitely changed looks and attitude wise (getting haircut properly instead of buzz cuts, shaving regularly, wearing cologne and good deodorant always and dressing casual but smart)..

No pressure toward her to do anything on Halloween, but if she decides to tag along with me and the kids, then we shall see how it goes!!..


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

Hey all.. Well I've been staying off the boards for a while as hearing all the bad news stories of others has done my PMA no good, and I wanted to purely work on myself, and hopefully give some meaningful updates..

I have had a couple of backslides in my happenings with W, but overall there hasn't been much in the way of change either way..


Halloween was a bit of a bust as far as W's interaction with us as she fell ill the night before.. It wasn't put on either as I spent some time with her on Halloween evening and she was throwing up everywhere, and wasn't too good for a week or so after.. On the flipside, myself and the kids had an absolute ball trick or treating and visiting haunted houses etc!!..

Interaction with W has been at a good level, and we are still talking very friendly/civilly (sp?), and are still spending roughly the same amount of time around each other..

Something that I have noticed is that W has taken up smoking again after being quit for 3 odd years.. Could this be a sign of pressure building, or just nothing at all??.. What I find strange is that she hid it from me for 1.5 months because she didn't want me to be disappointed.. I am not passing judgement on her move as I am a smoker myself, but I did tell her that I was proud of her for quitting, and can't understand why she took it back up again.. I left it at that..

She has been spending a lot of time with a 17yo female work colleague (W is 31), and I am seeing that this person is coming across as a bit of a sponge, but W doesn't see this fully yet.. She has got herself in to a bit of a trap with this person as she helped her out when she was contemplating suicide, and now this person has taken her on as a best friend etc.. W's kind heart might be biting her!!..

Anyway, W seems to get close to the point of almost being affectionate/intimate with me, but then other times seems to drift right off to not being cold, but just not there.. Is this typical WAW up and downs??.. 

I know I'm not imagining the closeness at times as it sticks out.. A perfect example was that we both went out for a smoke at my place, and there are plenty of places to sit, but she decided to sit right next to me on the stairs I was sitting, and there was barely a hand width between us.. There was no reason to sit this close.. I almost felt like kissing her, but I didn't want to push my luck!!..

My backslides are mainly coming from when we have good times, I mention a couple of days later about us getting back together, but the answer is always a negative, and then I get in to asking why etc..

Persueing, I know, and I expect a bit of a slap around the ears for it!!.. I'm finding it damn hard not to when the timing almost seems right though.. I also take from this that my detachment may need a bit more work too..

A lot of this is probably typical WAW behaviour, but I don't know.. I wish it was easy to work them out!!.. I look at my situation and realise I have it better than a lot of others (no OM, get to see kids, friendliness/amicability etc), but the biggest thing that is missing is the thing that hurts the most!!.. She tells me she still respects, cares and trusts me, and thinks I am attractive so why does it have to be so hard for her to make the decision to have the R again??..

I'll probably cop a 2X4 for this too, but a couple of weeks ago I purchased new tyres for her car, and am doing a major service on it tomorrow.. The 2X4's can come, but let me explain a couple of reasons why this is good.. It proves I am a MAN, and we all know that women love men who can do this sh1t!!.. Secondly, it proves I care about the environment my kids travel in.. Another thing that women love!!..

In the back of my mind I know I should be saying "stuff you, you left you sort it", but my heart and front of my mind says "do what is right for your W and kids safety, and show her the man you are".. I don't want my kids driving in a car with crap tyres, and I don't want them stuck in the middle of bumfvck if the car stuffs up due to lack of maintenance.. Someone may tell me I'm wrong for doing this, but in the big picture, I see I am right for the right reasons..

A few members of the board will say "I wouldn't take her back" etc, but believe me when I tell you that she is definitely with my time and effort.. I want nothing more than my family to be back whole again..


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

That was a bit of a rant looking back, but I wanted to give a quick update, and see what advice I can get!!..


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Good post.

1) Putting tires on your WAW's car is okay. As you say your kids are safer and you made a statement about who the man is. Don't regret it.

2) She started smoking because nicotine is addictive. Smoking is a statement about how we feel about ourselves. She has a death wish. She doesn't want to be attractive or fertile. Her self esteem is low.

Smoking with her lowers your sex ranking enormously. You go down to match her in unattractiveness. You also send a signal to her that you mirror her unhappiness. If you were able to quit smoking, your sex ranking would rise. She would be less secure about you moving on to other women. By smoking a person of either gender foregoes most non-smokers as potential partners.

To raise your sex ranking you should quit smoking. But you should never mention that you quit to her. If she asks you to join her for a cigarette don't say "I quit smoking", just say "no thanks". She is watching you. She'll be curious as to why you don't want a cig with her. Once you repeat this, she'll be interested in trying to figure out whether you still smoke or not.

If she comes out and asks you point blank, then you should reply: "Why are you asking?", not in a mean or haughty tone of voice, but really why should she care? 

You correctly identify the 17-year-old BGF as a bad sign, unless the girl is a nice person.

You are still sniffing around your WAW in a way that is not attractive. She is not taking you seriously as a mate. The longer you are in the friend zone, propping her up with your willingness to try at R when she decides to make a go of it. This is unattractive. You should smile and be polite when you pick up your kids. Stay active in their lives.

Get yourself in the good mental and physical shape. Socialize. When you get stronger your wife may fall for you again. That time will come when you prove that you are able to make it on your own.

When your WAW took off and deserted your home it cost your family a lot of money. She did it to get away from you. Agreeing to let her do this lowered your appeal to her. You followed her back. That also lowered her desire for you.

Only when she sees you ready to move on and dating will she chase you.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I have not read your whole thread yet, but I would encourage you to take a look at DayOne's thread, especially the last few pages. He is putting his marriage back together after his wife left him. I think you would find his story encouraging.


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

jld said:


> I have not read your whole thread yet, but I would encourage you to take a look at DayOne's thread, especially the last few pages. H*e is putting his marriage back together after his wife left him. * I think you would find his story encouraging.



More accurately, I'm putting MY life back together after waw left me. A benefit of which is that she is liking the work I have put into changing, and is willing to consider giving us another try.


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

OH, and BTW, If quitting smoking is too hard, consider vaping instead. It's the only thing in 30+ years that got me off 'death sticks'.


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## Arendt (Mar 25, 2013)

Fenix had some initial thoughts in this thread about your abusive behavior, which you later minimized that it was not that bad. You should not take all the blame. But intimidation and all that is not a good sign. Did you get into IC yet? 

On the whole you seem to be handling things well; no panic and anxiety attacks and all that. But there are some indications that IC could help you, particularly around maleness and intimidation.

Your marriage seems pretty dead to me. LongWalk has to very good advice throughout this thread, including his last post. During my long separation phase, he occasionally suggested similar things to me, like dating. I said no. I don't regret that. But on the whole, he was right. the marriage was dead. Being willing to date would have been one sign that I was willing to move on and perhaps have triggered a divorce sooner and ended the long limbo phase which took a financial toll on me.

Don't be afraid of divorce either. Life ca be very good post-divorce. My life hasn't been this good in a long time: new city, new job(s), dating a wonderful woman, new car (prius!)...you can be happy. And your kids won't suffer from divorce. They will bounce back. Science Daily just published a good report on studies recently completed on divorce and kids: in brief, it doesn't negatively harm them over time, and they show remarkable resilience. But work on yourself. IC could be invaluable to you.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Arendt,

Great update from you.
Are you still painting?

Any fishing by ex?


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

It is nice to see an update.
If you are mindful, you will grow and will be able to stop asking your wife if she'll take you back. Don't beat yourself up over it, just be mindful and aware so you don't do it anymore. You want to be the strong one with her.
It's okay to take care of the car. They are your family, even your wife is still your wife. Just don't do for her what she should be doing for herself. I don't think taking care of the family vehicle falls into that category of something she should be doing rather than you.
Try to make sure that you are not making the separation easier on her by doing things for her that you would normally do when you were living together, but are things she should be doing on her own now. If she doesn't want to live with you, she should not reap all the benefits of living with you and the benefits of not living with you. There are natural consequences to our choices. She should not be shielded from them. I'm not saying to punish her. Don't do that. Simply do not shield her from the consequences of her choices.
I agree that if you quit smoking that would be helpful, but I wouldn't switch to an e-cigarette. Those things are not good for you either. It is switching one bad thing for another. I realize that smoking is bad and people often think that drawing vapor into the lungs sounds like a much safer thing to do, but there are chemicals and particles in the vapor that are drawn deep in the lung tissue. Don't believe the marketing that they are fine and better than smoking.
Are you working out now? Do you go out with friends? Does your wife always accompany the children when they are with you or do you do things alone with them?


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> Good post.
> 
> 1) Putting tires on your WAW's car is okay. As you say your kids are safer and you made a statement about who the man is. Don't regret it.
> 
> ...



I agree wholeheartedly LW.. I didn't think the tyres etc would be an issue, and it is good to see that I was on the right path..

I see your point RE: smoking.. I haven't tried giving up, and have had the habit for 20 odd years now, so it might be time to kick it..

Admittedly, I probably have been sniffing around, and I am taking the little steps as a positive, but jumping in too quickly when I see them, instead of letting them build up..

I'm trying to get myself in shape both physically and mentally, and I'm the first to admit that I'm not quite there, but WAY better than I was.. I'm trying to socialize when I can..




jld said:


> I have not read your whole thread yet, but I would encourage you to take a look at DayOne's thread, especially the last few pages. He is putting his marriage back together after his wife left him. I think you would find his story encouraging.


jld, I'll be sure to take a look at it..



DayOne said:


> More accurately, I'm putting MY life back together after waw left me. A benefit of which is that she is liking the work I have put into changing, and is willing to consider giving us another try.


I see your point there DO..




Arendt said:


> Fenix had some initial thoughts in this thread about your abusive behavior, which you later minimized that it was not that bad. You should not take all the blame. But intimidation and all that is not a good sign. Did you get into IC yet?
> 
> On the whole you seem to be handling things well; no panic and anxiety attacks and all that. But there are some indications that IC could help you, particularly around maleness and intimidation.
> 
> ...



Arendt, I've seen IC earlier in the S, but since the move I haven't been seeing one, but I have noticed a change in attitude in all walks of my life, and am using a wait and see approach as to whether I go back to one.. I really wish I could explain the intimidation and abuse a bit more, as putting it in writing, and being out there with it makes it sound WAY worse than it actually was.. This isn't a pass off, but it really is something that sounds worse in writing.. Even W agrees it wasn't all that bad now..

In all honesty, I don't think the M is dead yet.. Well this M maybe, but I really don't think any chance of resurrecting/reconciling is gone yet.. W's body language tells a different story to her words..

I am willing to see about the whole dating thing, but I really don't FEEL like giving myself to anyone in any form.. It would be unfair on them, especially if me and W do reconcile.. Maybe dinner and a movie would go ok, but I can't envisage sex or intimacy with another person at this point in time.. It's not about W with this, it's how I feel..

The thing with divorce where I live is that it takes 12 months to even apply, so I've still got 8 months or so to wait before any of that happens.. There can't be any "speeding up" here..

I'd like to agree with you about life after divorce, but at this point in time I'm not seeing that.. MAybe a bit longer and I will, but in all honesty, things are still pretty fresh in the scheme of things.. I'd like to agree with you about the kids too, but anecdotally, I have noticed them going downhill ever so slightly over time with S.. Nothing major, but there are more comments made of "when can we all live together" and similar..





CynthiaDe said:


> It is nice to see an update.
> If you are mindful, you will grow and will be able to stop asking your wife if she'll take you back. Don't beat yourself up over it, just be mindful and aware so you don't do it anymore. You want to be the strong one with her.
> It's okay to take care of the car. They are your family, even your wife is still your wife. Just don't do for her what she should be doing for herself. I don't think taking care of the family vehicle falls into that category of something she should be doing rather than you.
> Try to make sure that you are not making the separation easier on her by doing things for her that you would normally do when you were living together, but are things she should be doing on her own now. If she doesn't want to live with you, she should not reap all the benefits of living with you and the benefits of not living with you. There are natural consequences to our choices. She should not be shielded from them. I'm not saying to punish her. Don't do that. Simply do not shield her from the consequences of her choices.
> ...


Thanks Cynthia for your comments..

I am trying to stop, but as I mentioned earlier, I am taking action on what I am seeing as the little steps, when I should be letting them build, so I am going to try harder not to jump from now on..

Thanks for your agreement about the car.. As mentioned, I thought it was OK, and now that has been valiated..

I'm not really doing anything that I would normally do when living together apart from car stuff, so that is something I'll keep plodding along with..

Not a fan of e-cigs anyway.. I tried them for a bit to cut down, but found they made me feel worse overall..

I do work out when I can, and I am trying to do as much socializing with what friends I have as I can.. Unfortunately, a lot of us are on different schedules so things don't really work out.. I am out trying to find more friends though..

My W lets me do whatever with the kids.. When they are with me for their weekends, I have them alone.. The only time W may tag along is if I ask her, and she is wanting to do it.. There is no restrictions placed by her, or "supervised times" etc..


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Personally I have found that I have to make working out a priority for me. I have a busy life, but working out (along with healthy eating habits) keeps me feeling good. I have a routine I do at home that keeps me in shape. I wish I had implemented this years ago. Personal health should be a top priority for everyone. If you can do a workout at home, you can easily get it done in about an hour 4-5 times per week and it will maintain fitness. Combined with healthy eating habits and you will look very good as well.
Besides that, when you are looking fit and obviously put a priority on your own personal wellbeing, that is attractive.


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

So fellow TAM enthusiasts, I find out last night that WAW has started dating (as we ALL expected to happen eventually).. Although I got a bit cut with the knowledge of this, I actually found out that I am a bit more detached than I thought I was.. W and I had a chat about the situation later in the evening and I found that I didn't yell, beg, cry or even try to reason.. The only thing I really said that wasn't along the lines was "WTF are you doing with someone like him??"..

It was my own smart butted comment that actually bought out that W is dating/seeing someone as I mentioned that I saw a person that she recently (3 weeks ago) added on Facebook was in the area that I spotted whilst on my way to work (he lives on the other side of town).. I jokingly said "did he stay at your place last night", and the answer was yes from her unfortunately..

She said that she has been "BF-GF" with this person for a week, after 2 dates in the last 3 weeks.. I have no reason to believe otherwise.. It screams rebound R as he is the first person to pay any real attention to W in a dating respect (weird to me as she is very good looking overall), is not the type of person she usually goes for, and apart from a job has nothing going for him (seriously, not just my opinion)..

Probably against principals here, but I did a bit of detective work in the last 24 hours to see what he is like, as by being at her place, he is around my kids.. Well what I found out wasn't real crash hot..

3 kids to 3 different women, meth user, wannabe cage fighter, 4 restraining orders from ex's.. The list goes on.. Of course he is giving her the bleeding heart stories, and I have not let anything on of what I know.. Like I said, I know it is against DB principals, but I have the means and didn't even really have to ask the question..


So what it's really boiling down to here is how do I play this??.. Do I tell W what I know (and yes, proof has been shown), or let her find out for herself??.. Also, how do I now handle what I am doing regarding R/M??.. I have told W that I am currently re-assessing our friendship due to this, and that I am also re-assessing our financial obligations to each other..

She seemed a bit "taken aback" by what I said, but understood.. This chat happened today after I dropped off the kids after picking them up from school (I generally do on any Friday unless I do overtime at work as I am finished early enough and it's pretty much on my way home)..

I want to let this new R of hers run it's course without me butting in, as like I mentioned, it screams rebound.. The only thing I have done is set a couple of boundaries as best I can that we are S and living separately.. 

My first and foremost boundary was that he was not to be there when I am there.. I said to her that I won't cause any trouble, but I have no intent to talk to him, or be friendly.. That doesn't even have anything to do with their "R".. It's just the fact that he is not the sort of person I would give the time of day to even if this wasn't happening..

The only other boundary I set was that I would have no hesitation in action if he hurts the kids or her.. I mentioned that at the end of the day, she is still my W until the divorce papers are signed, and the kids are always mine.. Please don't take this comment the wrong way.. W first met me when I was working a previous job (bodyguard/security), and knows that I will not stand for that..

Funny enough, when I mentioned that she was still my W, she agreed this time.. Generally the answer has been "but we are separated"..

So how do I handle my sitch now??.. W wants to still have our closeness that we have as co-parents/friends, and is a bit worried about losing that from he reaction to my previous comment, but I am on the lookout for the fork for eating that cake!!.. Thing is, the communication lines are good, so I don't want to go dark (but will go back to LC) and judging by other sitch's I'm in a good place there..

Any advice to steer me on the path I need to be now would be greatly appreciated..


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Love4Mywife said:


> So fellow TAM enthusiasts, I find out last night that WAW has started dating (as we ALL expected to happen eventually).. Although I got a bit cut with the knowledge of this, I actually found out that I am a bit more detached than I thought I was.. W and I had a chat about the situation later in the evening and I found that I didn't yell, beg, cry or even try to reason.. The only thing I really said that wasn't DB was "WTF are you doing with someone like him??"..
> 
> It was my own smart butted comment that actually bought out that W is dating/seeing someone as I mentioned that I saw a person that she recently (3 weeks ago) added on Facebook was in the area that I spotted whilst on my way to work (he lives on the other side of town).. I jokingly said "did he stay at your place last night", and the answer was yes from her unfortunately..
> 
> ...



Well stay being a **** and clean up after.
I mean really???
Spidey, Spidey.:scratchhead:


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

tom67 said:


> Well stay being a **** and clean up after.
> I mean really???
> Spidey, Spidey.:scratchhead:


So wait and see then Tom, or is there sarcasm there??.. Sorry, my radar is a bit off ATM..


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

Love4Mywife said:


> So wait and see then Tom, or is there sarcasm there??.. Sorry, my radar is a bit off ATM..


What Tom means is that you're being Cuckolded. IF you want to reconcile with waw, then dating outside the marriage is prohibited. If you're not going to reconcile, then let her have at it. And fall flat on her own face.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

> 3 kids to 3 different women, meth user, wannabe cage fighter, 4 restraining orders from ex's.


Doesn't sound too good.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

Just read the entire thread.

Don't have a whole lot of time to post as I'm at work but firstly I'll say this.

You speak a lot of her words, but not a lot of her actions. Throughout the thread you read too much in to what your wife says and does. I know this because I did the same thing. The changing of her facebook status could have been significant in that she was showing she was unavailable, not only to single men, but also unavailable to you. It could have changed because of her involvement with her new guy. My STBXW's friends/family didn't know of her OM until ~7-8 months after she left. 

They do this to avoid blame being placed on her after all of her efforts to shift it on to me, and the fact that the family wouldn't accept the OM because of his actions. 

Like many others, I saw a lot of red flags for an affair. The fact that you share accounts etc is meaningless. It really is as simple as her having an email address/social media account/dating website account/phone/mailbox that you know nothing of. I would not be at all surprised if soon you learn that she was seeing him a lot longer than she let on. Either way, prepare yourself just in case.

You might be the exception to the rule, I can't say for sure. It can't hurt to be ready for what you may learn in the coming weeks though.


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## shellgames (Sep 2, 2014)

Your wife won't listen if you do try to tell her


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

DayOne said:


> What Tom means is that you're being Cuckolded. IF you want to reconcile with waw, then dating outside the marriage is prohibited. If you're not going to reconcile, then let her have at it. And fall flat on her own face.


So keep on my game of not dating if I want to still have a chance at R, or go out and play the field??..

Either way, I'm letting her fall on her face with this one anyway.. I know what I need to know, and I can see the outcome in the not too distant future..



LongWalk said:


> Doesn't sound too good.


No it doesn't LW, but hey, WAW's will make these mistakes..



WantWifeBack said:


> Just read the entire thread.
> 
> Don't have a whole lot of time to post as I'm at work but firstly I'll say this.
> 
> ...


WWB, I agree with many of your points.. I honestly don't think this has been going on any longer than I have been told.. If it has, it has been F'ing well hidden, which I don't deny is a possibility.. My detachment at this point in time is telling me not to give a fvck, and it's working..

You are right, I was reading too much in to everything, but roughly 1-2 weeks ago I had my epiphany of detachment, and honestly, as much as I cracked it when I was told, I didn't shed a tear, got a half decent nights sleep and got on my life..

I've really learnt in the last few months that you can send me to the depths of hell and instead of dying, I'm just going to walk around there for a bit and take in the sights.. There was the sudden moment when I saw the devil, flipped that motherfvcker the middle finger and started trying to find my way out.. I can see that light, and I'm heading toward it quickly ATM..



shellgames said:


> Your wife won't listen if you do try to tell her



That's why I don't plan on saying anything shell..


All in all, I've said what I have said to W.. I'm kicking back with a cold brew getting ready for this to unravel.. I'm beginning to like the new man I've become (it's only the pre sh1t man I was, but a bit better).. W has noticed how well I'm taking it, which is a 180 to one of her complaints.. I feel everyone is just waiting for me to fvck up as they have had bad break ups, and it's giving me the motivation to do the opposite..

Posts can be deceiving, but I'm in a much better place now than I was 4-5 months ago..


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

You went through your crucible and tempered yourself into a stronger person. You just needed more tempering is all, but at least you reached that point. Your clarity will sharpen, and you will ponder why did you not see her for what she was earlier. The rose tinted glasses has been knocked off your face, and the spell of love dispelled. To be honest, I can't wait for her to deal with the new you. If she wants to live her life like that, then she will no longer have your support. If she falls, you won't be the safety net that catches her. After all she is the one who took the risk, so why should you be her safe landing. Look at it from this prospective, if she succeeds, then your gone from her life. Your the one taking a chance if she will return or not.


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

Mr.Fisty said:


> You went through your crucible and tempered yourself into a stronger person. You just needed more tempering is all, but at least you reached that point. Your clarity will sharpen, and you will ponder why did you not see her for what she was earlier. The rose tinted glasses has been knocked off your face, and the spell of love dispelled. To be honest, I can't wait for her to deal with the new you. If she wants to live her life like that, then she will no longer have your support. If she falls, you won't be the safety net that catches her. After all she is the one who took the risk, so why should you be her safe landing. Look at it from this prospective, if she succeeds, then your gone from her life. Your the one taking a chance if she will return or not.


Too true Mr Fisty.. I've already made up my mind that although the road back may be there, it will be bumpy as fvck for her, and she needs to PROVE that she is worth my time..

I'm all for being amicable for the kids, and showing we can work together, but I'm not just going to go "come here babe" when this R with him ends.. She will need to work!!..

Funny thing is, since my boundaries and finding out etc, she has been blowing up my phone constantly today.. I don't know what to make of it, and don't care.. It has been kid related etc, but I find it amusing.. I ALMOST feel like getting in contact with this other person and going "check her phone if you think it's all about you".. I'm better than the stupid little games though..


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

He sounds like a high risk sex partner, the bearer of assorted viruses and bacteria.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Love4Mywife said:


> Too true Mr Fisty.. I've already made up my mind that although the road back may be there, it will be bumpy as fvck for her, and she needs to PROVE that she is worth my time..
> 
> I'm all for being amicable for the kids, and showing we can work together, but I'm not just going to go "come here babe" when this R with him ends.. She will need to work!!..
> 
> Funny thing is, since my boundaries and finding out etc, she has been blowing up my phone constantly today.. I don't know what to make of it, and don't care.. It has been kid related etc, but I find it amusing.. I ALMOST feel like getting in contact with this other person and going "check her phone if you think it's all about you".. I'm better than the stupid little games though..



Oh, now that you are detaching from her, her interests have peaked. You have become more attractive in her eyes. Your stronger now, more confident in yourself, and she finds those qualities attractive. Plus she is trying to keep you hooked. She does not want to fall flat on her face, and she wants you attach enough as another option. She probably also does not want you to move on. She is possessive of you. I bet if you were going on dates, she would be jealous, she does not want other women taking your time and energy away from her. That is my best guess. From a logical standpoint, it makes sense, she knows that you love her, and she thinks that your still the doormat pining away for her affection. It gives her power over you, and she does not want another female taking that away from her. Females are competitive too.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Dude. Its over. Go get some of your own.

Please do not be the 99999th beta here accepting sloppy seconds.


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> He sounds like a high risk sex partner, the bearer of assorted viruses and bacteria.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My thoughts as well LW.. 



weightlifter said:


> Dude. Its over. Go get some of your own.
> 
> Please do not be the 99999th beta here accepting sloppy seconds.


WL, I WANT to save this.. Yes, I agree, it's over at the moment, but everything seems to scream "7 year itch" to me..

I know people have come back from WAY worse, and that is what I want to do.. If it means I have to let her go to find out that what she had wasn't so bad, then that is what I have to do..

Like I said before, her road back isn't going to be easy, but the road isn't ripped up yet.. Ultimately, I want to do this for our kids sake, and to have a new marriage with the woman I love.. I've been through enough women in my life, and for one to make me settle down the way she did, then she must have done something right to me..

I just can't let all of that history end.. Also, I want my kids to have a whole family again..

I hope you can agree.. As for me dating etc, I can't see it happening yet.. 2 reasons.. 1)Emotionally, I'm not ready, and I don't want to let anyone else feel like sh!t for me not being able to give 100% to them and 2), I've given a lot of thought to what DayOne has said about dating being prohibited if I want a shot, and looking at his situation it seems to have worked..


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

I don't mean this to come across as harsh but I think it's the best course of action.



> Too true Mr Fisty.. I've already made up my mind that although the *road back may be there*, it will be bumpy as fvck for her, and she needs to *PROVE that she is worth my time..*
> 
> I'm all for being amicable for the kids, and showing we can work together, but I'm not just going to go "come here babe" when this R with him ends.. *She will need to work!!*..
> 
> Funny thing is, since my boundaries and finding out etc, *she has been blowing up my phone constantly today*.. I don't know what to make of it, and don't care.. *It has been kid related etc*, but I find it amusing.. I ALMOST feel like getting in contact with this other person and going "check her phone if you think it's all about you".. I'm better than the stupid little games though..


The bits in bold show you have a long way to go still, you're still focused on her, still hanging on to hope. You need to truly let it go for your own good, then if she comes back great stuff, if she doesn't, you're all good anyway cause you're prepared for it. 



weightlifter said:


> Dude. Its over. Go get some of your own.
> 
> Please do not be the 99999th beta here accepting sloppy seconds.


100% agree with weightlifter on this, I was nearly one of those 99,999.



> WL, I WANT to save this.. Yes, I agree, it's over at the moment, *but everything seems to scream "7 year itch" to me*..
> 
> *I know people have come back from WAY worse*, and that is what I want to do.. *If it means I have to let her go to find out that what she had wasn't so bad, then that is what I have to do..*
> 
> ...


In order of the bits I've emboldened in this post:

1. You're still making excuses for her, that needs to stop. Stop rationalising it. Have you read Married Man's Sex Life Primer yet? If you haven't, read it. If you have, read it again.

2. So you want to let her go get her jollies with Mr. Meth Head, and wait around hoping she finds you desirable again once she's done? Wake up man, that isn't going to happen. If anything you'll look like a weak beta orbiter and it will decrease her already dwindling respect for you even further.

3. There's that hope again. What would it take for the road to be ripped up if it hasn't been already? If the "road" symbolises where you want your relationship to go, remember there are other roads that will go to the same destination. You just may have to travel them alone for a while or with a different partner down further down.

4. The woman you love? Or do you mean the woman you _loved_. Is she acting like someone worthy of your love? When you fell in love with her was she treating you like sh*t and pulling at your strings? I'd wager not, in which case she's not that woman anymore.

5. Dating being prohibited is fine, but the rule has to apply to both parties otherwise you're just being a pathetic beta orbiter again. I believe in DayOne's situation neither of them are dating any third parties. 

Say she dates this guy for 6 months, a year, whatever, and then decides, if she did come back, she'd have no respect for you. I can guarantee you you'd find yourself in this situation again. It may take weeks, it may take years, but it will happen.

You're sitting around hoping a switch will flip in her head and she'll wake up one morning, full of regret, screaming "What have I done? I want L4MW so badly". Wake up, it isn't going to happen.

Read books - Married Man's Sex Life Primer & No More Mr. Nice Guy should be made mandatory reading for guys like you and me.

Read threads - look at similarities, look at patterns. Hell, read my thread, see me making excuses for my wife, see me clinging on to hope just like you. See other TAM members giving me the advice I'm passing down to you, see me ignore it, then see me come back a few weeks later to tell everyone they were right all along and I should have listened.

It's time to wake up.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

If your wife takes meth to get the heightened sexual experience that addicts often report, her brain will be fried.

You need to end all conversation that does not relate to your children.

Your WAW has chosen to go downwards. You need to divorce her as soon as possible.


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

LW, I don't think she is using herself, and I am waiting for 100% proof about BF before I go the hard road..

Xmas morning went really good today.. Went around to W's place first thing for breakfast and present opening/playing/constructing with the boys.. I showed a lot of PMA even though I was cut inside, but as they say "act as-if"!!..

I spent a good 3 hours there, and to be fair it was ALMOST like any other Xmas morning that we have had.. Laughing, joking and generally mucking around with the kids.. I got an invite to the I/L's for lunch, and we all made the trek over there for a great family get together/feed..

There was nothing even close to an R talk happening with W even though I felt like laying it all on the table (again!!).. I am finally starting to be able to fight myself and bite my tongue.. There was no awkwardness from anyone at I/L's even though it my first big step out with W since BD.. 

I found that great on all accounts as obviously if I can stand in a house of 15-20 of her family members, and they all still openly accept me not only do I feel better, but I am sure W would see the positive aspects, even though she would be unlikely to react.. To add, my family has the same feeling for her so IF the path home is still open, and the time comes then at least there would be no animosity there (one would think)..

The only comment that really came close to any sort of an R talk was a comment that W made prior to leaving to the I/L's.. FIL & MIL had told her that I was invited, but the final decision rested with her.. Obviously they are not wanting any coldness etc at a family xmas function.. Well she chose to say yes, and reasonably happily I must admit..

Anyway, W said to me that I was all good to come from her perspective, and it didn't sound as though it was forced or just said for the sake of saying it.. She then proceeded to say "Just don't get the wrong idea".. What is with that??.. Haha!!..

I replied with "what do you mean get the wrong idea"??.. She said "about us".. I couldn't think of the words to say quick enough, but I came out with "I have no expectations about us with what we are doing today, I just want everyone to have a great day and catch up".. Probably not the best thing, but this whole conversation lasted 20 seconds!!..

We were about half an hour early for lunch so we had a coffee with FIL, and let the kids play with some new toys.. Chat flowed freely which was good.. Communication between myself and W was good considering how many people were there (no ignorance).. 

One thing I found to add to the "actions" file is the fact that I caught W 4-5 times today looking at me from across the room.. They weren't f^ck me eyes, nor was it a death stare.. They were sort of "reminiscing" eyes.. The looks weren't just glances as when I would catch her looking at me, she turned away like a school girl!!.. There was nothing to look at in my sitting direction apart from me either!!..

Any thoughts on this behaviour??.. I know it isn't anything huge, but in my situation, catching her looking at me mistily more than once is at least 1 to put in the "actions I notice" list..

If I had to work out a reasoning behind it for "what is working" then I would have to say it was the days interactions with the kids.. I doted on them (as you do).. I played monsters and aliens with a Dana White bobble head, and the racoon out of "Guardians Of The Galaxy".. Played cricket in the rain and lost the sacrificial tennis ball half covered in electrical tape!!.. Honestly, he had a he!! of a fun day!!..

I think her seeing this MIGHT have tugged at a few heart strings.. I've never been a bad father, but like nearly all of us fathers on here, when BD etc happens I have noticed that I put more time into memorable things with them now as I'm not around as much as I'd like to be..

The story may be a bit all over the place, but I'm on the verge of a food coma and I'm on 3 hours sleep!!.. Please forgive me!!..


Merry Xmas to all!!..


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Good post. 

Don't get any ideas is her way of shutting down your hopes. The best move you can make is divorcing her. You need to be hard to get to be at all attractive to her.

Frankly the only way to really boost your sex ranking is to be with another woman, one that she is jealous of. 

Merry Christmas


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

LW, unfortunately I can't file for D for at least another 7-8 months due to where I live so it's not like I can use it as a "fog lifter" etc.. She has said "don't get the wrong idea" to me about stuff early in S, but this time was the first in a while and honestly, there was no conviction behind it.. It felt like it was just being said to be said..

If I am going to be married (even by paper) to this woman for that much longer then I may as well use my powers for good.. I want to be able to walk away when the time comes knowing that I tried, had unquestionable loyalty (even though she has strayed) and put my kids first..

Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to lay down and be a doormat.. She is already noticing my NC/LC, my pulling away and other way that detaching is helping me.. I know I should be harder to get, and I'm getting there.. Hell, I'm not even as available as I was 1-2 months ago!!..

I can't stand the thought of being with another woman ATM, as I am just plain not read.. I am too busy working on myself and enjoying my kids..

Xmas is a sh!t time for everyone in the positions we are in, but there was a few positive interactions/signs/things to take out of what happened yesterday between W and I..

Firstly, there were the looks I caught her making toward me, there was the great, easy conversations we were having add to that the fact she seemingly wanted to be close to me.. The last one that I KNOW made her look (probably the first to happen for the day) was when the kids gave me a new shirt and I was trying it on.. I changed shirts in the middle of W's lounge room.. I said "how does it look" and they all said great.. I started removing the shirt and W kept looking at what I was showing for A LOT longer than was required.. It was plainly obvious she liked what she saw!!..

These aren't massive things, but with the way my situation has been rolling they are little plus's and are firsts since BD..


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

I understand your fighting spirit but read Dadof2's thread to gain some perspective.

Merry Christmas!

I think I ate too much.


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> I understand your fighting spirit but read Dadof2's thread to gain some perspective.
> 
> Merry Christmas!
> 
> I think I ate too much.


Yes, I have taken a look at some of his posts, and the situation does seem similar in a few ways (although most do to a point)..

What everything I have written basically boils down to the fact that I have a while to wait to divorce.. I have stopped actively persuing her and am letting her do all the work RE contact etc..

Do I want this marriage to work??.. Yes.. 
Could I forgive her for her transgressions??.. Yes, but not immediately..
Do I love her honestly??.. Yes, although the love I feel now does feel different..

It is part of my make up to be a loyal person and this is something I don't want to 180 on.. I'm 35 and have only had 4 jobs in my adult life.. All long term as I was loyal to who I was working for.. I have been attempted to be poached on better money numerous times, but said no out of loyalty..

I also want to give my kids a life lesson that if you believe in something then it is worth working towards..

Don't get me wrong, I'm not sitting here being a beta who is just waiting for something that probably won't happen, and I'm not actively fighting in outward ways.. I'm just biding my time.. When D time comes around mid next year, I'll be the first to file if this doesn't work out..

Who knows how I'll feel in time about dating etc, but I don't want for anyone to get hurt if things don't go according to plan..

I'm working on myself anyway, and I am who I need right now.. My kids are there too.. 

Merry Xmas to you too LW.. I know the feeling on eating too much!!..


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

GAAAAHHH.

I think someone sent you to drive me crazy. NOT that it is a long drive. No this is not a threat but I so want to shoulder shake you. I loathe it when I see people on the path to accepting future sloppy seconds.

GO GET A "GIRLFRIEND" Just dont promise her anything.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Weightlifter is right. Read MMSLP or some other analysis of what drives attraction.

Loyalty is important, but it once a woman scorns it the way your WW has, then you have detach. Her respect for you is so miserably low. Don't reward her with loyalty. You think you may be able to forgive her, but should you take her back, why she has done might eat you.


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

weightlifter said:


> GAAAAHHH.
> 
> I think someone sent you to drive me crazy. NOT that it is a long drive. No this is not a threat but I so want to shoulder shake you. I loathe it when I see people on the path to accepting future sloppy seconds.
> 
> GO GET A "GIRLFRIEND" Just dont promise her anything.


Haha WL, I'm nearly at the same place with craziness!!..

I understand what you are saying about sloppy seconds, but the way I am looking at it (and always have with previous GF's) is that unless they were virgins before you, they are ALWAYS sloppy seconds..

About the GF thing, TBH I'm not interested in any way ATM.. I know that it will help for the attraction from WW, but I just have no desire.. I'm too busy putting myself and kids first..



LongWalk said:


> Weightlifter is right. Read MMSLP or some other analysis of what drives attraction.
> 
> Loyalty is important, but it once a woman scorns it the way your WW has, then you have detach. Her respect for you is so miserably low. Don't reward her with loyalty. You think you may be able to forgive her, but should you take her back, why she has done might eat you.


LW, I have started reading MMSLP last night funny enough.. I will post more about my thoughts when I get a bit further in to it..

As mentioned previously, I am detaching, but still have a way to go.. Maybe the further in to detaching I won't feel the way I feel..

I don't feel I am outwardly rewarding her with loyalty, but it's just there..

Will what she has done eat me IF I take her back??.. Quite possibly.. 
Will I know this until I try??.. Well no..

The funny thing is I feel I am a lot better off than a lot of other people in a similar situation.. I see my kids whenever I please, I still have an open line of communication to W that doesn't involve animosity/hatred even though it is LC, my boundaries regarding seeing NBF and her have been respected and there would be a few other things..

To all who have posted, don't get me wrong.. I have taken all the info you all have given me, and it has put me in a WAY better place than I was a couple of months ago.. I also understand I can go back to what was before.. I have understood and noted that if things happen in the future between myself and W that it won't be the same..

Frankly, I have changed and so has she..


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Love4Mywife said:


> Hey guys and girls!!.. First time poster with a bit of an issue I'm hoping you friendly people can help with..
> 
> Like a lot of other men, I have come here to seek a bit of direction on what I should do in regard to reconciling with my wife, or if it is even possible.. We are currently separated.. We have been together for 10 years, married for 7, and have 2 beautiful children aged 6 and 8.. I am 35, she is 31..
> 
> ...


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

LW, thanks for the insights.. I've come a LONG way since then.. 

RE: OM, yes CeeGee was correct, but it has been double and triple confirmed that OM has only occurred in the last 6 weeks..

RE: Coming back, I think she is starting to realise that it won't be as easy as it was a month or 2 ago.. We have had a couple of conversations where M/R has come up, and I have laid it bluntly on the table that if she ever comes back, there will be a sh!tload of work from her.. I have had a few female friends who are mutual commenting and liking certain status's of mine on FB.. Some are rather attractive and she has noticed this.. I know for a fact it is annoying her..

Yes, I have been 180'ing, socializing and getting out and about.. I have had a few lunch/coffee catchups with females in the last couple of months..

I made a Xmas pact to the kids that I would quit smoking on Xmas day.. I have had 3 smokes since then.. I haven't seen a DR or anything, but am just weaning myself off them..


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

There is no "weaning" off of smokes. You either do or you don't. Take this from someone who quit four times before it took.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

I struggled with nicotine addiction for years. My mother smoked while she was pregnant with me. Sports = no smoking. Sitting in an office and not working out = starting again. Finally I went cold turkey for the 6th time. Will never smoke again.

Regrettably smoking did a lot of damage to my body. All male smokers are basically progressively destroying their ability to get/maintain an erection. Women are ending their reproductive life a few years earlier.

Cool thing about quitting smoking and working out, you feel years younger. It only takes 2 or 3 months to notice a big difference.

I have friends with life style induced type ll diabetes. It's a choice.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Love4Mywife said:


> RE: Coming back, I think she is starting to realise that it won't be as easy as it was a month or 2 ago.. We have had a couple of conversations where M/R has come up, and I have laid it bluntly on the table that if she ever comes back, there will be a sh!tload of work from her.. I have had a few female friends who are mutual commenting and liking certain status's of mine on FB.. Some are rather attractive and she has noticed this.. I know for a fact it is annoying her..
> 
> Yes, I have been 180'ing, socializing and getting out and about.. I have had a few lunch/coffee catchups with females in the last couple of months..


Just promise us if one of them says something to the effect of, "look its been two months since i....." You wont turn her down. Your wife has had relations with another [disease ridden] man. Your loyalty should be equal to your wifes.


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

Farside, This is my first real attempt in 20 years of smoking.. As per the quitters handbook, I will more than likely fail, but I am going to keep at it.. I haven't had one since my last post!!..

LW, I understand the damage it causes and that along with the other reasons we have noted is why I am finally trying to give them the boot..

WL, I will make that promise, and maybe the time will come!!..


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Women can read men way better than we can read them. It's part of the evolutionary program.

When you didn't know your wife was thinking about other men, and that was back when you were together, she thought you were dull for not reading her mind. If you loved her properly, she reasoned you would have known and responded. It was a shxt test that you didn't even know was happening. 

Now your wife is with some loser and you are still entertaining the idea of R. Again you are failing the shxt test.

The correct response is to cut her off. Detach. Save yourself. When you accomplish this she will entertain the idea of R precisely because it is not on the menu. 

The ironic truth is that what small chance of R exists, 5 to 10 percent, depends on its value. Now it has no worth to her.


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> Women can read men way better than we can read them. It's part of the evolutionary program.
> 
> When you didn't know your wife was thinking about other men, and that was back when you were together, she thought you were dull for not reading her mind. If you loved her properly, she reasoned you would have known and responded. It was a shxt test that you didn't even know was happening.
> 
> ...


Funny thing is LW, I have done precisely that this morning and she starts blowing up my phone again..

Sent me a msg about the kids which was a nothing msg, so I ignored it.. Move forward an hour and 3 missed calls in a row from her.. I didn't answer and got the kids to call back.. They are talking to her now and I have no intent to talk to her..


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Love4Mywife said:


> Funny thing is LW, I have done precisely that this morning and she starts blowing up my phone again..
> 
> Sent me a msg about the kids which was a nothing msg, so I ignored it.. Move forward an hour and 3 missed calls in a row from her.. I didn't answer and got the kids to call back.. They are talking to her now and I have no intent to talk to her..


#Master from 'kung fu' voice.

You are learning grasshopper


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

So funny story.. After my not talking etc, I get a msg asking if she can come around and visit the kids (I have them for 2 weeks whilst I am on holidays from work).. I did the right thing and said that she could, but only for a short while..

I went to walk out to do other stuff as it was about the kids and she asked why I wasn't sitting with her.. I mentioned that she was here to see the kids and not me.. I went and did what I had to do and came back.. Then the fun started!!..

She asked why I had been ignoring her and I mentioned that I had no want to talk to her whilst she was involved with someone else.. She got a bit cut over this but I reaffirmed that unless what she wanted to know about the kids when they are with me was an emergency then I wasn't interested in any small chit chat.. She seemed taken aback..

She said I seem to be getting sh!ttier with her, and ignoring her as I'm not getting what I want.. I remained calm and mentioned that it had nothing to do with sh!ttiness, and I just didn't want to talk to her in a friendly manner whilst things are the way they are..

I mentioned that there is no reason for her to do what she is doing, and that she is showing that what we had doesn't mean anything as she has shown no want to work on things for the better.. I also mentioned that if she was so intent on continuing on the path that she is on that maybe we should draft up divorce papers even though we can't officially be divorced for another 7-8 months.. 

Her reply was that she thought I didn't want to hear about it until the time came and I replied that I thought it was for the best if she wanted to be with others and not work on us.. She said that she didn't know what the future held, and couldn't give me a straight answer whether she wanted to be divorced or not..

I said that I am not playing second fiddle to anyone, and if she is going to make a choice then she needs to make it soon..

I'm pulling away from her and I sense that she is pulling closer..

Another funny thing is that the boys chose a beautiful gold pendant for her for Xmas, and whilst I was in the jeweller, I got her a pair of gold earrings from myself.. She got me a nice shirt and expensive toiletry for Xmas, but I hadn't been paid and got her nothing.. Anyway they were 50% off for boxing day so score to me for doing it late!!..

When she arrived, she made an underhanded big deal about showing that she was wearing both gifts.. POSOM didn't get her sh!t but maybe a d!cking!!.. Score 2 to me, even though it wasn't the intent!!..

I let her stay with the boys for a little while after this, we talked logistics and then she left.. I'm now waiting for the next round of phone and FB blow up!!..


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Dude. Just divorce. I realize that you can't file just yet but, so long as her head is where it's at, you should resolve to file for divorce the very moment that you're legally able to do so.

Seriously, man... be at the courthouse no later than 801 am THAT DAY in order to file the papers.

And let's be real clear on this...



Love4Mywife said:


> She said that she didn't know what the future held, and couldn't give me a straight answer whether she wanted to be divorced or not..


This is WAW-speak for "I'm trying to find someone to replace you and, if I can't find someone better by the end of a year, I'll come back to you. Please give me the time and space that I need to do this."

And, while this is good...



Love4Mywife said:


> ...I said that I am not playing second fiddle to anyone...


...this is very, Very, VERY bad...



Love4Mywife said:


> ...and if she is going to make a choice then she needs to make it soon...


Stop letting her decisions (or, rather, her _indecision_) guide your life!

And as for this...



Love4Mywife said:


> When she arrived, she made an underhanded big deal about showing that she was wearing both gifts.. POSOM didn't get her sh!t but maybe a d!cking!!.. Score 2 to me, even though it wasn't the intent!!..


Sorry, but exactly how is this a "score" for you? You spent your hard-earned coin on a couple of gifts for her, and her f*ck buddy is the one doing the d*cking? No offense, man, but you might as well have been the one taking it.


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> Dude. Just divorce. I realize that you can't file just yet but, so long as her head is where it's at, you should resolve to file for divorce the very moment that you're legally able to do so.
> 
> Seriously, man... be at the courthouse no later than 801 am THAT DAY in order to file the papers.



The way things are at the moment Gus, that is EXACTLY what I will be doing short of a massive turnaround and a shedload of heavy lifting from her..

Even then the way I feel at the moment, it isn't going to be enough.. Admittedly I'm still on the rollercoaster, but my mind has been there for a couple of days..

I can't get rid of the nagging feeling that I would like things to work again, but I don't feel that she is up to the task if it ever comes.. I suppose I'd like to be proven wrong..


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Love4Mywife said:


> The way things are at the moment Gus, that is EXACTLY what I will be doing short of a massive turnaround and a shedload of heavy lifting from her..
> 
> Even then the way I feel at the moment, it isn't going to be enough.. Admittedly I'm still on the rollercoaster, but my mind has been there for a couple of days..
> 
> I can't get rid of the nagging feeling that I would like things to work again, but I don't feel that she is up to the task if it ever comes.. I suppose I'd like to be proven wrong..


The bottom line is that you can't reconcile your marriage w/ an unwilling WAW.


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> The bottom line is that you can't reconcile your marriage w/ an unwilling WAW.


Roger that.. 

The thing is that I KNOW that she will come back at some stage.. Just take a look at most of the others here.. Having said that, I'm not sitting back waiting for it..

What irks me is that I do care for her, and even in the situation we are in she is the same in her own weird way (she is the mother of my kids and was a massive part of my "grown up" life for so long).. It just sh!ts me that I am more than likely going to have to turn her down by that stage..

It also sh!ts me that I can see the walls coming down around her (slowly), but once again she will probably be too late.. I can feel my mind/feelings changing now..


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Love4Mywife said:


> Roger that..
> 
> The thing is that I KNOW that she will come back at some stage.. Just take a look at most of the others here.. Having said that, I'm not sitting back waiting for it..
> 
> ...


She might come back, but only _after_ she figures she's exhausted her other options. And seriously... is that what you want? Is that the kind of marriage and wife that you want... a woman willing to throw away her marriage and family for a meth-head d**chebag w/ multiple "baby mamas" and a record...?


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> She might come back, but only _after_ she figures she's exhausted her other options. And seriously... is that what you want? Is that the kind of marriage that you want? Is that the kind of wife that you want... a wife willing to throw away her marriage and family for a meth-head d**chebag w/ multiple "baby mamas" and a record?


No it isn't.. That is why I'm saying that IF it is going to happen, it will need to be sooner rather than later, and even then it isn't a given for her..


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## leon1 (Sep 3, 2014)

There are no set rules that they always come back , plenty dont . You need to forget about her coming back and carry on as if she will never come back,use the new year as a fresh start .Come on man stop waiting for her and start living for yourself .


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Pathetic........


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

L4mw

You are being plan B'ed hardcore. Weve seen this 9999 times before and are begging you to get off the bad bad path.

I know about uk/aus divorce laws a bit and i know about the 1 year requirement. You also dont get punished for your own side fun.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Agree 100% with Gus that buying her jewellery for Christmas was entirely the wrong message. Your children don't have money to buy that sort of gift, so she would naturally consider a gift from you. So you are rewarding her for giving to another man. That merely reinforces her notion that her sex ranking is very high.

I will go out on a limb and say that there are women who love their husbands and cheat because they are filled with desire for sexual and romantic excitement. Once they get it out of their system, some may want to get their faithful old mate back in the den. You sense this; hope it is true. It is a kind of love story. Doesn't always work out, for a number of reasons.

Acoa, a poster who has eloquently recorded how he finally summoned the will power to divorce his serial cheating wife, knew that his wife still wanted him. In fact he could still have her back. What stopped him is that he did not want to reconcile with her selfishness. He could have re-educated her by forcing into therapy, but the cost to his moral universe was too high.

He still cares about her at some level; after all three kids is a lot of history. But she never was truly sorry, although she was even suicidal after Dday2. Something warped inside of her prevents her from being humble enough to empathize. She is sorry for herself but she does not understand the hurt she caused. Likewise, your WW is far from getting it.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

As soon as you tell her the window has closed, and actually _mean_ it, I bet she will start to aggressively close the distance.


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

leon1 said:


> There are no set rules that they always come back , plenty dont . You need to forget about her coming back and carry on as if she will never come back,use the new year as a fresh start .Come on man stop waiting for her and start living for yourself .


Leon, I am starting my own path.. My postings over the last couple of days indicate the place on the rollercoaster that I have been..



warlock07 said:


> Pathetic........


Warlock, I appreciate your input but do you care to elaborate??.. It would have a bit more of a hit to it if you said more than one word..



weightlifter said:


> L4mw
> 
> You are being plan B'ed hardcore. Weve seen this 9999 times before and are begging you to get off the bad bad path.
> 
> I know about uk/aus divorce laws a bit and i know about the 1 year requirement. You also dont get punished for your own side fun.


WL, as I have said, my thought are finally changing.. 



LongWalk said:


> Agree 100% with Gus that buying her jewellery for Christmas was entirely the wrong message. Your children don't have money to buy that sort of gift, so she would naturally consider a gift from you. So you are rewarding her for giving to another man. That merely reinforces her notion that her sex ranking is very high.
> 
> I will go out on a limb and say that there are women who love their husbands and cheat because they are filled with desire for sexual and romantic excitement. Once they get it out of their system, some may want to get their faithful old mate back in the den. You sense this; hope it is true. It is a kind of love story. Doesn't always work out, for a number of reasons.
> 
> ...


LW, you have been in my thread from the start, and I appreciate your guidance.. Although jewellery may have been a bad call, what was purchased by the "kids" was within their present allocation and they DID choose it.. I was in the jewellery store in the first instance to purchase something for myself and they saw it.. My gift actually cost A LOT less than theirs, and the decision was made as I didn't thing she was worth the effort to look elsewhere..



farsidejunky said:


> As soon as you tell her the window has closed, and actually _mean_ it, I bet she will start to aggressively close the distance.


Farside, that window IS closing and she is sensing it..


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Then it should proceed from present tense to past tense.

Close the damn window.

That is why you are being ridiculed. Maybe your mentality is changing... Present tense... However, until it is changed, as in past tense, you are still being a door mat for her to lay with a loser while you are "threatening" to slam the door shut. 

Be decisive.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Love4Mywife said:


> LW, unfortunately I can't file for D for at least another 7-8 months due to where I live


Doesn't the fact that she has left you and she is not having sex with another man change that? I think you should be able to get a divorce on the grounds of adultery.



farsidejunky said:


> There is no "weaning" off of smokes. You either do or you don't. Take this from someone who quit four times before it took.


It worked for me, but I had just found out I was pregnant, so that was a huge motivator. I did not let it drag on, but was finished within 2 weeks. I have been a non-smoker now for over 20 years.

You seem to be doing better in some ways, but there are some areas that you could improve in.
#1 Do not buy her any gifts. Buying her jewelry from yourself was not good. I don't see a problem with letting the children choose jewelry for their gifts. At least in our family, my husband and I always take the kids shopping separately and let them choose their gift. It is from the kids, even though we obviously paid for it.
#2 You told her that she has to make her choice soon. It would be better to tell her that you are planning to divorce her cheating ass and don't come crying back to you. Let her chew on that.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Love4Mywife said:


> She asked why I had been ignoring her and I mentioned that I had no want to talk to her whilst she was involved with someone else..


 This is good.


Love4Mywife said:


> She got a bit cut over this but I reaffirmed that unless what she wanted to know about the kids when they are with me was an emergency then I wasn't interested in any small chit chat.. She seemed taken aback..


This is because she can see plan B evaporating before her eyes. You are her plan B. She can explore other options and you will always be waiting for her if she decides she wants you back. As long as she believes this, she will continue in her behavior.



Love4Mywife said:


> She said I seem to be getting sh!ttier with her, and ignoring her as I'm not getting what I want.. I remained calm and mentioned that it had nothing to do with sh!ttiness, and I just didn't want to talk to her in a friendly manner whilst things are the way they are..


 What is really happening is that she is seeing that she is not getting what she expected and is upset that you are not there for her like she requires of you. Her control is slipping away.



Love4Mywife said:


> I mentioned that there is no reason for her to do what she is doing, and that she is showing that what we had doesn't mean anything as she has shown no want to work on for the better.. I also mentioned that if she was so intent on continuing on the path that she is on that maybe we should draft up divorce papers even though we can't officially be divorced for another 7-8 months..


 So if your wife is cheating on you, that doesn't speed things up?



Love4Mywife said:


> I said that I am not playing second fiddle to anyone, and if she is going to make a choice then she needs to make it soon..


She made her choice. She has now been sexually involved with another man and the marriage is effectively dead, despite the fact that you are still married. She has abandoned you and the marriage so she can have fun.



Love4Mywife said:


> I'm pulling away from her and I sense that she is pulling closer..


 Keep detaching.



Love4Mywife said:


> When she arrived, she made an underhanded big deal about showing that she was wearing both gifts.. POSOM didn't get her sh!t but maybe a d!cking!!.. Score 2 to me, even though it wasn't the intent!!..


 It probably feels like it, but you are not in competition with the OM. He is not the problem. Your wife is the problem.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Love4Mywife 

What you are doing is that you are stuck in the phase where you see if she will end the affair and go no contact. 1-2 weeks is all that this should last. That is all most people can take.


There are a few people who will do this for weeks, months. But most cannot and it’s not advisable because after 2 weeks you get what you have right now. You become an enabler of her affair. It becomes a way of life. 


And you are all over the place giving mixed messages.


You tell her that you think divorce might be the way to go now.
Then you buy her expensive earrings for Christmas. 


Do you know that she got out of that? That you love her so much that you will give her to the end of time to have an affair.. maybe 2 affairs. She thinks she has you wrapped around her finger and I agree.


Then the little conversations. They are again giving her mixed messages. They are not cleaver. 


You need to be in Plan B. (As opposed to being Plan B) What is that? That’s when the cheater has refused to end the affair and the BS protects themselves from the pain and abuse of the affair. How do you do it? You go NO CONTACT.


Now you have children so it’s a bit hard to complete no contact. But you only communicate with her about the children. You tell her that you are in a lot of emotional pain and talking to her and seeing her makes it worse. So you will not talk to her unless completely necessary. She can email and/or text you if she needs communicate about the children. If she calls you do not answer. She can text.


If she asks to come see the children when they are with you… the answer is no. 


If she wants to talk to you about your relationship. Ask her if she has ended the affair. If she has not just tell her “I am not interested in talking while you are continuing the affair.” That’s all you say. Do not tell her that you are moving on. Do not tell her that you are thinking of filing sooner than later.


If the time comes to file for divorce, just file. Let her find out when she is served the papers.

Seriously, stop buying her presents and talking to her about anything except business related to the children.

What is happening is that a she, like very one, has a number of emotional needs. Let’s say it’s 10 emotional needs. 

Now no one person can fill all of another person’s emotional needs. So let’s say that you only fill 6 of her emotional needs at any one time. That’s actually pretty normal in a good. But then she started an affair. The OM now fills the 4 emotional needs that you do not fill. So now she’s high on good brain chemistry about she is in the utopian state of having two men who jointly fill all of her needs. (that’s the affair fog) No one who is getting 10 of their 10 needs fill all the time is going to willingly give that up.

Even though she is living with the OM, you are still filling a lot of her emotional needs. He’s filling more not, but you are still filling like, Lets’ say 4 of her emotional needs.

Now you go no contact. Guess what happens? Suddenly she is only getting 6 of her emotional needs met. Her relationship with the OM is based on you filling some of her emotional needs. When you go no contact, all the sudden he has to fill the other 4 of her EN’s. Well that was not what he bargained for. All the sudden she becomes clingy and needy. She starts expecting for from him. When she starts demanding more from him, his take on it will be “this is not what I signed up for”, “she’s doing a bait and switch”. He’s going to run for the hills and dump her.

What you have been doing is enabling her and helping the OM in that you have been prolonging the affair.

Go no contact, gold turkey. Then sit back and watch him dump her.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I agree with EleGirl. You are meeting some of her emotional needs and that has to stop. She won't miss you if you give her all she thinks she needs from you. Cut her off. She has moved on to another man. She has no right to ask anything of you. All you have in common is the children. Do you have a custody agreement? If not, you need one asap. Do you have an attorney? If not, you need one tomorrow. Things are about to drastically change.


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

Thanks guys and girls.. I understand exactly where everyone is coming from in regard to all of this..

I have been trying to keep a good relationship with her for the kids sake, so that they can see we can both co-parent together without bickering etc.. It has been made obvious to me now that this is not the way to go..

As for speeding up the divorce due to infidelity, it can't happen where I live.. There is no fault and it is a 12 month wait from the date of separation.. As WL stated earlier, there are no repercussions for dating/adultery etc..

Custody agreements are not done where I am from unless there is domestic violence involved, and if needed otherwise they have to be court issued.. Separation agreements aren't legally bound and attorneys aren't interested until divorce proceedings begin (unless children are taken away)..

I have been sticking to LC as well as I can, but I am the first to admit that I have had a few stuffups..

As for the gift, I didn't think it would be such a big issue.. They were only a $15 pair of earrings but I see the point..


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Please ask her if she has had a std test, that you know about his method and drug use. Let her know you don't hang with those kind of people and judges don't look kindly on children being around that kind of people.

Your wife is going off the deep end, think Titanic.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

If OM is former crack user, one supposes he might be clean. Might also be filling some of your WW emotional needs with this exciting drug. So watch for behavioral changes in her.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

How have you changed since you and your wife got together? Men do change and sometimes lose the attraction that their wives fell in love with.

What names did you call your wife?

You're missing something here that happened before she ever left you. Something was going on before she left.

One reason she picked this guy is because she knew it would send a clear message.

Have you read the mmslp book linked to below? You haven't understood what the other posters have been advising and you have reaped the results. People want what they can't have. Now your only hope is a hard 180. Not being able to stomach going out is not lost on your wife. At least fake it and post some facebook pictures showing you having a good time with great looking women.

At this point she is rubbing your face in it and you lap up any crumb you think she throws you.

Do a hard 180. But do tell her your friends have told you about the other man and tell her all you know. Tell her you don't hang out or socialize with people like him or people that hang out with him.

Get an attorney to write up and file a seperation agreement that proteects your 50/50 visitation rights. She's dumped you for a doper that abuses women, act like it.

No contact except to talk about the kids. Tell her you won't be friends with her or anyone else in his crowd.

You've been weak this whole ordeal, you can see wwhere its gotten you. Someone has to be strong for your kids, it should be you.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Btw, how do you know she knows what you know about the scum bag she's going with?

Does he have a criminal record? Have your attorney check him out.


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

Hey all.. Update time!!..

So, since my last postings here I have gone full NC apart from talk about kid necessities/schedules etc.. Holy crap, let me tell you, the detachment that has come with that is phenomenal!!..

Since doing this, the breadcrumbs have been thrown around by her to see if I'm still on the hook.. I deleted her from my FB list, but didn't block her.. This caused a bit of upset for her as well, but I'm at the stage of not caring.. I did it for me..

She now thinks I have a GF, but it isn't the case and I'm not going to let her know any differently.. When I was prodded about it I told her that my personal life is really none of her business any more and that I didn't have to tell her.. As for dating, nothing has come up yet.. I've had a few back and forwards with a few ladies lately, but none of them have been keep on going material.. One was absolutely priceless.. Awesomely good looking girl with similar interests etc.. Until the bomb was dropped that she had a 7 weeks old kid and was in an open relationship.. Ummm, no thanks!!..

Some of the text exchanges/calls lately have been weird to say the least.. Sometimes I feel as though I am being sh1t tested as to how I will react under certain circumstance, and I haven't caved yet since my "epiphany"..

I had a small chat to her the other night after she was talking to the kids and some other strange stuff came out.. The only reason I chatted was due to logistics of a birthday party that S6 wants to have, but his b/day isn't until almost mid year.. Anywhere that is decent for a kids party will need to be booked shortly though..

Anyway, out of the blue the comment came "OM won't be there and I won't be inviting him".. It was an oooookkkkkkk moment to say the least!!.. The other comment came about after she mentioned POSOM's name and I asked her to respect my boundaries about not talking about him or mentioning him to me.. She blurted out "I have never cheated on you, and never wanted to in our M".. Another WTF moment..

The other comment/pic from S9 was definitely a bit of a strange one given the circumstances.. I'll try and shorten the story but myself and both S's had a photo taken for the local paper a short while ago and I really liked the pic so I purchased a copy of it.. Anyway MIL had also requested a copy from me, and I was going to get one framed for the boys to have in their room at W's so I got MIL's framed as well.. I thought I would do the right thing and get W a copy done for her to put wherever.. we all looked really good and the boys were the main focus so I thought she would have liked it.. I only just gave her a print not framed.. 6 cents for the pic wasn't a big deal, and at the end of the day it is still the family aspect..

It turns out that she has taken a picture of the photo with her phone (to have on the phone obviously), and has been looking at it a bit..


All in all, she is in a f'ing weird place.. I'm not quite at 50k feet yet, but I'm seeing it all from about 20k!!.. I'm the first to admit that I still love her and probably always will, but I definitely don't LIKE the person she is at the moment..


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Damn good job, keep at it and good luck.

Post any time you feel the need. You can also help others here with your experience.

Where do you think she's headed with this?


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Booking some place for a birthday party is sort of a reason to talk, sort of.

Going NC with her is making your stronger and you need to keep going with it.

Your WAW may not be a cheater technically. Emotionally she did. Moreover, she drifted downward. Her desire for strange did not lead her to date some upright guy. Her self esteem is low. This is a major obstacle in any reconciliation. You have the fact that OM jizzed in her. Does he not want her anymore?

Whether he dumped her or she him or it was mutual, her self image is low. She has two routes to go. One she starts looking for OM plan B. Alternatively, she comes clean and asks your forgiveness.

Your wife knows you well. If she wants to talk she'll approach you with a great deal of cunning and energy. Do not sleep with your wife before you listen to her carefully.

How is she doing economically?


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

Chaparral said:


> Damn good job, keep at it and good luck.
> 
> Post any time you feel the need. You can also help others here with your experience.
> 
> Where do you think she's headed with this?


Thanks Chap.. Yes, I'll be sure to post.. I don't get many overall changes in my situation but it seems like when things happen they happen noticeably.. Could just be that I'm starting to see things more objectively so who knows.. True, I can do that hopefully!!..

Where do I think she is headed??.. In all honesty, I don't really know, and to be frank, I don't care.. I'm not having expectations on anything.. It is more than likely conscience comments to ease herself.. 



LongWalk said:


> Booking some place for a birthday party is sort of a reason to talk, sort of.
> 
> Going NC with her is making your stronger and you need to keep going with it.
> 
> ...



LW, I agree that the booking is a valid reason to talk so I didn't really have a problem with it.. I also agree that NC has been brilliant for me.. I'm the first to admit I will be civil during kid drop offs and have a sit down talk with her, but all conversation is on the kids week (how they have been etc) from an adults perspective.. This is usually a 10-15 minute chat..

She sure did go downward.. I reckon this has helped me with detachment though.. I'm chuckling about it actually.. 

You might be right about the self esteem, but I can't really personally tell yet by the exterior.. The actions yes, but the physical no..

AFAIK, they are still together as I type.. Whether things are going good or not between them, I don't really care TBH.. I feel as though I'm being tested subtly.. An old reaction from me would have entailed taking any of those comments and turning them in to a R talk.. I didn't do that.. There have been other subtle digs/small comments made lately that previously I would have reacted to negatively (argued etc) have been turned to a nothing pretty quickly..

As my story goes, that was a side of me that I could have done better, and now am starting to.. Little things like that are 180's for me and I'd say I'm being tested..

I don't plan on it!!.. Economically I don't know, but it wouldn't be overly flash TBH..


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Stick to NC, excepting the kids. No reason to be optimistic about R


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> Stick to NC, excepting the kids. No reason to be optimistic about R


That's the plan.. I don't have those expectations about R any more.. I've put it down as "cross that bridge if I get there"..


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Have you read the two books linked to below, I just cant remember. EVERY man should read them both but particularly MMSLP.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I'm sorry that things have taken this turn, but you are dealing with it appropriately and developing yourself into a stronger person through it. You also do not appear to be developing bitterness, which is good. Bitterness will eat away at a person, so it's best to avoid that route.


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

Chaparral said:


> Have you read the two books linked to below, I just cant remember. EVERY man should read them both but particularly MMSLP.


Chap, I haven't had a chance to fully ready both of them yet, but I have started MMSLP..



CynthiaDe said:


> I'm sorry that things have taken this turn, but you are dealing with it appropriately and developing yourself into a stronger person through it. You also do not appear to be developing bitterness, which is good. Bitterness will eat away at a person, so it's best to avoid that route.


Cynthia, thank you for your comments.. I agree that bitterness isn't the way to go.. I am trying to deal with things the best way I know so I'm glad to know that I am on the right path..


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

"I have never cheated on you". And bad boy boyfriend is content with just holding hands?

Is the divorce final or even filed?

Cheating.

Date a few. Bet you can do better than a woman who wants to date a failed cage fighter.


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

weightlifter said:


> "I have never cheated on you". And bad boy boyfriend is content with just holding hands?
> 
> Is the divorce final or even filed?
> 
> ...



WL, I know that and you know that.. I'm getting a wafting smell of guilt appeasing with that comment.. It's the typical WAW "We are separated so that means we can do what we want"..

I've had a couple of dates as mentioned but so I'll keep on the path.. I know I can do better but I'm REALLY not chasing "happily ever after" yet..


Had the kids exchange today and all went well.. As mentioned previously, we had a coffee/chat about logistics and did what had to be done.. WAW was trying to dig a bit more in to my personal life I noticed and was a bit miffed when I didn't give anything up.. 

I was only meant to have the kids for 1 day, but due to not working tomorrow I offered to have them for 2.. The more time I get around them the better.. I made the statement that although I had plans for next day previously, they had fallen through so I didn't mind looking after them..

She asked "what did you have planned and who with??".. I replied that I just had some stuff to do with a few friends.. She then started reeling off family members and friends she thought I was doing something with.. I said no to all of them, and wasn't lying either.. I wasn't an ass about it and simply gave no more info than was needed.. You could tell her mind was going million to one and that she had just about bitten her tongue off..

Anyway, I left it at that and changed the subject.. I have to admit that it is great to be able to co-parent with her the way we do and it is the best thing for the kids to see.. I have also noticed a lot of "us" talk about the kids over the last couple of weeks.. Things like "Dad and mum will think about it" and "when mum and dad can afford it".. For the most part that hasn't been the case and more along the lines of "We'll see".. 

Little steps forward to being amicable without being the gay friend really.. I've made it pretty clear that I'm not interested in "friendship" as such, and to her it seems like the removal from FB was a sealer to this..


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Do you think she has taken drugs with OM?


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> Do you think she has taken drugs with OM?


In all honesty LW, I don't know.. It is always a possibility but I haven't seen anything physically.. It could explain the mood changes of late, but then so could NC and me changing my tune too..

I know that WAW's change, but she was never really tempted at any stage during our R.. I used to smoke a bit of weed in my younger days and that never interested her, and I never saw any evidence of her doing anything elsewhere..


Edit: Just thought I'd add something else here instead of making another post.. 

Just a weird thought really.. Since my headspace has been a bit better, I've had a heaps of likes and comments on FB from non related (neither myself nor W's family) females on pics etc I put up.. It's a strange one as I haven't professed any M problems or outwardly been "down" over any issues I have had over FB so it isn't that.. These women didn't even pay any attention to anything at any time in the past but since the "clearance" they have come out of the woodwork.. The closest I have professed to singledom on there is pics of just myself and the kids, but that wasn't unusual beforehand anyway.. These are women of all R status's and ages too so no particular demographic either..

It has been noticed as well, and I have seen a reaction to it.. Funny how things work!!..


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Women are curious about men suddenly become single. Those that might date you may likely throw some shxt tests your way. Being cheerful and independent will raise your sex ranking.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Love4Mywife said:


> She asked "what did you have planned and who with??".. I replied that I just had some stuff to do with a few friends.. She then started reeling off family members and friends she thought I was doing something with.. I said no to all of them, and wasn't lying either.. I wasn't an ass about it and simply gave no more info than was needed.. You could tell her mind was going million to one and that she had just about bitten her tongue off..


Your wife thinks that since you are separated "in her mind" that being with another man is not cheating, typical cheater mentality.


Its likely one of her main reasons for wanting to know if you have a girlfriend(jealously aside) is because this will validate her cheating mentality. i.e. you feel the same and are doing the same thing.

I know you are detaching, thats good you will find yourself as you do, the “Pick me! Pick me!” dance you did when changing the shirt at xmas, when she is so blatantly being with the om, was disturbing.

I hope you find your peace.
Take care!


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Your WAW is very bad news. Her approach to torpedoing your marriage was destructive and combative while avoiding honest discussion. She has put on some smiles to keep you interned in Camp Rejection. She is trying to confuse you.

Cut off the socializing. She knows when you are talking about the children but in fact fishing for heart. She can read you. When you were selling all your stuff and pulling out to get back to your kids she was on a power trip. If she had some higher purpose, to replace you with a better dude, okay. But she is just wants affirmation from some loser. He is guaranteed to produce drama in her life and she may seek you are the cleaning agent. You will end up contaminated by the experience. File for divorce and move on.

By the way I am not pro divorce but your WW is not worth R.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I'm still bumfuzzled about why you're going to the same birthday party this summer with her. It would be a cold day in hell when I went to a celebration with my cheating wife. Obviously, you have to be at school functions at the same time but even then, my back stabber would be dead to me for all time.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

LongWalk said:


> Your WAW is very bad news. Her approach to torpedoing your marriage was destructive and combative while avoiding honest discussion. She has put on some smiles to keep you interned in Camp Rejection. She is trying to confuse you.
> 
> Cut off the socializing. She knows when you are talking about the children but in fact fishing for heart. She can read you. When you were selling all your stuff and pulling out to get back to your kids she was on a power trip. If she had some higher purpose, to replace you with a better dude, okay. But she is just wants affirmation from some loser. He is guaranteed to produce drama in her life and she may seek you are the cleaning agent. You will end up contaminated by the experience. File for divorce and move on.
> 
> By the way I am not pro divorce but your WW is not worth R.



Reject this advice at your own peril. 

These women know what they are doing.

There is a purpose to everything they do. 

Kids only and even then only by email. 

Anything she asks if you ask of yourself, "how does this benefit/affect me? How does this benefit/affect my children"? 

If it's only for her always say no.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

How are things going?


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Hope he is detaching well.


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

Thanks kindly for checking in on me guys..

I haven't had many changes to note so the updates haven't been quite up to scratch..

I got through V day just fine with no lost time from my own self.. I didn't hear from W on the day (no great deal), but as expected she was messaging me the next day flat out over "kid" stuff.. I ignored a good half of it as although kids related, it wasn't anything major..

I've started to notice signs of W "second guessing" what is going on.. Up and down moods for a start and just simple interactions at exchanges etc have shown her pulling toward me.. I've taken no action any time I see any advances from her..

I'm personally still getting out there and moving on with my life.. W doesn't seem to be on my every thought lately, and POSOM isn't even thought about..

I know the kids are giving her a hard time about him as they have said they don't like him all that much, and have been saying to her about wanting us back together.. I also don't think the R between W and POSOM is all the best at the moment anyway.. Just my opinion from what I can see.. 

My next stepping stone to get myself over will be our wedding anniversary.. It's not far away now, and I know I have the strength to not let it both me.. I have decided that if W does not acknowledge the date, I am 150% done with everything.. Nothing will stop D when the time comes..

I want something big to happen either way so I can have a decent update!!..


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

What are the generic terms of divorce where you live as far as waiting periods etc.

Is king kong bundy still in the picture?

I remember when i found my wifes EA. One of the later thoughts was, could you at least gave picked someone better than me over a half literate inbred hillbilly?


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

The wedding anniversary date means very little in the scheme of things. If she called and wished you a happy anniversary now, would that change anything?

Your wife is more of a WAW than a cheater. She left so that she could begin a new single live but she, like many in her position, left you various mixed signals so that you would remain the B plan. Also, you may read too much into various interactions.

File for divorce. Now that she has had OM's body fluids in her, you cannot even contemplate sex with her, until she has STD testing. Usually folks on TAM exaggerate STD and paternity worries, but your WAW is conjoining with a person who has a history of substance abuse. Your wife's self respect is very low. She affaired into socio economic swamp land.

How much can you get your kids sleeping over?


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

weightlifter said:


> What are the generic terms of divorce where you live as far as waiting periods etc.
> 
> Is king kong bundy still in the picture?
> 
> I remember when i found my wifes EA. One of the later thoughts was, could you at least gave picked someone better than me over a half literate inbred hillbilly?


WL, the D waiting period (to get the ball rolling) is 1 year.. I'm halfway there now..

Honestly, I wouldn't have a clue.. I think the POS may be still around, but I don't care enough to dig in to it.. If he is, I'm not seeing any real feelings from W toward him.. Even to the point on V day morning she changed her FB profile pic for one of them together, to an old one of herself before our S.. I'm still not friends with her on FB, but it came up with a mutual liked it..

I'm getting the strong feeling that NONE of this is over by a long shot.. She is obviously confused.. Wants OM, but hasn't changed the name, got rid of pics of us, untagged/deleted wedding pics or family pics and they are all publically displayed.. I could go on!!..

It leads me to think "how dumb is this POS"??.. I know sure as hell that if I get in to a relationship with someone and they are still displaying their past so openly then I wouldn't even bother going there.. The stupid f&cker is obviously desperate!!..


I've already had that thought, and stated that to her when I initially found out about POSOM!!..


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

1 year yikes. NC, LA or almost any recent UK colony.

Be glad you dont livein idaho... 5 years!


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## Love4Mywife (Aug 25, 2014)

Yeah a new-ish UK colony.. This is why I have to wait it out to even START proceedings..

5 years??.. Holy carp!!..


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Us states vary from less than 30 days depending on the county its filed to 5 years. 5 years is insane.

Lol were just an overloud former colony.
Of course the uk is our largest most scenic aircrft carrier.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

weightlifter said:


> 1 year yikes. NC, LA or almost any recent UK colony.
> 
> Be glad you dont livein idaho... 5 years!


Hmm... I wonder if this is ID's way of keeping divorce stats down. Seems like most folks would move to a neighboring state and file from there. I know I would.


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