# The Drama Triangle



## ku1980rose (Sep 7, 2010)

Was just referred to this. Anyone else read this?
Where do you see yourself fitting? Where does your SO or EX fit in?

An Overview of the Drama Triangle



UpnDown said:


> Hope it can help you in some way.


Not sure I understand it completely, but it does make some sense. Especially stating that people treat themselves as they were treated as children. My h def does that. 

My h has played the "rescuer", being the martyr. But, finds that I don't need rescuing. At times then, I tend to rescue him. So, maybe that makes him feel worthless?

He's def in the "victim" part of the triangle now. And working very hard to make sure that I see that he is the "victim". 

The other part that stuck out at me was that we rescue ourselves and others by denying what we know. "If I look the other way and pretend not to notice, it will go away." I've said this about my h from the beginning. His denial of any issues.

Thanks for turning me on to this. Reading helps me sort through these confusing times.

As for myself, I think I tend to rescue. I used to live in the victim role (high school and college), until I gained much needed self confidence. Now? I'm not sure where I fit. Still trying to figure that one out. Many times I like to rescue, but I also find myself persecuting. I'd like to think I'm not always on the triangle.....:scratchhead:

There's many of you out there that know way more about this topic. Feel free to share.


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## UpnDown (May 4, 2012)

You are referring to the SGP (Starting Gate Position). That's the one you were generally given due to your childhood, which can also be shaped by other experiences growing up (doesn't have to just come from your parental upbringing).

As for the 3 positions, Persecutor, Victim, Rescuer. These can change at any time in a conversation. In a 2 minute conversation you can go around the triangle 10 times.

Persecute enough to put someone into Rescuer, then once there is nothing left to Persecute, jump into Victim. What does the Rescuer do? Rescue the victim.

Rescue to 'completion' and what else does the Rescuer have left but to start Persecuting (to force Persecute into Victim) so they can continue on to Rescue. If the Rescue isn't successful, then hit up Victim for some sympathy.

Everyone wants to be the Victim, but there can only be one. Becoming the Victim gives you the freedom to go either way, Persecute or Rescue. It's a sense of control.

Have you met Conrad? When he isn't swinging 2x4's (or posting that damn spam pic of building material .. lol) you will see him continue on and on about saying "I'm not okay with that" and "Observe @50,000 feet".

While those sayings can be applied to many different ways of viewing conflict, I have found it very effective if you take the mental stance of Drama Triangle to said conflict at hand.

The whole point is to GET OUT of the DT.

"I'm not okay with that" is neither a Persecute NOR a Rescue. It cannot be labelled Victim (because you are not asking or seeking any pity, you are standing your ground with your boundaries). So, if it that simple phrase doesn't apply to any of the 3 faces of DT .. then where does it put you? OUTSIDE of the DT. (or in the center, whichever really).

Exactly where you want to be.

"Observe @50,000 feet" is exactly what you need to do to effectively place not only the person you are talking to, but YOURSELF within the DT. You cannot stop the cycle if you have no idea where either of you are.

I did exactly what you did after reading that article. I gave myself along with stbxw a SGP. I thought about it a lot and tried to justify my placements.

But, there are other things you have to consider as well. Wherever you place your stbxh is for peace of mind only. Kind of a 'default starting position' you know he will probably take once a conflict starts.

Other than that, thinking too much of it will serve you no good purpose because then you will start to 'justify' there behavior or fall into owning there mistakes / problems.

My stbxw is a SGP (Starting Gate Persecutor), it's her defense mechanism and her easiest way to Victim (and it ALWAYS triggered my Rescuer). I have thought of why she is one, and I know why.

Her father was a yeller, short temper and at times would chase them around the house. Now, he is a very good man, he has owned his past problems and I respect my father in law a great deal. BUT, stbxw associates any yelling or anger as CONSTANT and ALWAYS.

So many times I would get upset and automatically I was labelled as ANGRY. My discontent for how the children were behaving and my methods of parenting (although I will own the fact that at times I did go to far) were always labelled as excessive and in 1 speed. Never any leeway.

She would admit to the fact that her problems with it stemmed from her childhood. I now see her admittance was more of a projection than anything. She never really dealt with it, it was a sore wound she would wave around. 

Anyways, my point of that is you cannot own his problems. Those are his own.

So when you try to apply the DT to a conflict you are having with stbxh, do not make excuses for him as to why he is in whatever stage of DT. That will serve you no purpose.

Because, it's not about him anymore. It's about you.

Lynne Forrest wrote the article I linked, but she was not the creator. These are 3 videos of her giving a small seminar on the DT.

These videos are kind of poor quality, but one day last week my kids were both taking a nap so I put them on (they are pretty short) and just put my head down on the desk and listened.

I found the videos helped put the article into perspective.

Lynne Forrest - Starting Gate Positions on Victim Triangle - YouTube

Lynne Forrest - Victim Conciousness Defined - YouTube

Lynne Forrest - To Believe Is To Feel and Act Accordingly - YouTube


Keep in mind, I'm no expert in this lol. I came across it last week but have embraced it immensely and I am completely open for discussion on this topic as it somewhat excites me for whatever reason.. lol.


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## UpnDown (May 4, 2012)

I also watched this one .. it's kind of a goofy presentation but I suppose humor was a good conduit to deliver the information because I understood it pretty well.

The TRIANGLE GAME with Meanie, Genie, and Weenie - YouTube


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## UpnDown (May 4, 2012)

Another 3 part presentation. This guy seems to forget what he's talking about every once and a while lol, but the information is still valuable.

Drama Triangle Part 1 - YouTube

Drama Triangle Part 2 - YouTube

Drama Triangle Part 3 - YouTube


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## ku1980rose (Sep 7, 2010)

Thank you for the extra info. 

I can see where my h is on starting point of the triangle. What's strange is he grew up in a family with a very controlling, angry father and an abusive mother. He struggles to not be the one who is angry and yelling, and I think that's why he veers so hard to the other side. But, I definitely see what you are saying about that being used as a sore wound to wave around. Instead of dealing with the fact that he won't have ANY type of confrontations and avoids anything that upsets him, he uses the excuse of not wanting to be like his dad. I understand that, I truly do, but there has to be a happy medium.

I like to think that I am standing on the outside of that triangle right now. I guess that's what makes it so easy to assess the situation. I'm not always on the outside. I'd say my starting gate the last few years is of the persecutor. And I'm not proud of that. I am full of much resentment toward him and that has caused me to be pretty angry.

It is so hard when my husband plays the victim. It is very difficult right now. But, I'm trying to stay on the outside and let him have his grieving. I can see that he is going through some processes of grieving and I just have to realize there is nothing I can do. When he plays the victim, I def want to jump into rescuer mode, but I'm just not able to soothe his hurt anymore. I can't do that and still be honest with myself about needing out of this marriage.

I'm kind of fascinated by this drama triangle, too. It seems to make some sense.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

UpnDown said:


> You are referring to the SGP (Starting Gate Position). That's the one you were generally given due to your childhood, which can also be shaped by other experiences growing up (doesn't have to just come from your parental upbringing).
> 
> As for the 3 positions, Persecutor, Victim, Rescuer. These can change at any time in a conversation. In a 2 minute conversation you can go around the triangle 10 times.
> 
> ...


Damn Up.

Pretty soon, I'm going to have to put on some victim attire. You don't need me here


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## UpnDown (May 4, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Damn Up.
> 
> Pretty soon, I'm going to have to put on some victim attire. You don't need me here


Haha, you as victim? Wonder what that rusty mess would look like. 

I'm no where near set in my convictions, old tendencies still creep in and disown my new found thought process. The racing mind can do horrible things to work in progress.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

UpnDown said:


> Haha, you as victim? Wonder what that rusty mess would look like.
> 
> I'm no where near set in my convictions, old tendencies still creep in and disown my new found thought process. The racing mind can do horrible things to work in progress.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Then I still have purpose.

Need any lumber?


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## UpnDown (May 4, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Then I still have purpose.
> 
> Need any lumber?


Not yet. lol.


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## UpnDown (May 4, 2012)

ku1980rose said:


> Thank you for the extra info.
> 
> I can see where my h is on starting point of the triangle. What's strange is he grew up in a family with a very controlling, angry father and an abusive mother. He struggles to not be the one who is angry and yelling, and I think that's why he veers so hard to the other side. But, I definitely see what you are saying about that being used as a sore wound to wave around. Instead of dealing with the fact that he won't have ANY type of confrontations and avoids anything that upsets him, he uses the excuse of not wanting to be like his dad. I understand that, I truly do, but there has to be a happy medium.
> 
> ...


Everything is still very fresh to both of you right now. Things will be said and done that you will rethink about later and go "oh what did I do" .. I know, I was there (as early as last week).

Once the dust settles you will be able to apply your new thought process to the situations at hand, do it enough, and you should start to see a change in the dynamic.

Although, he may resist, but that's on his side of the fence.


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## ku1980rose (Sep 7, 2010)

Can someone be a starting gate victim? Because it sure seems he is the victim a lot lately.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

ku1980rose said:


> Can someone be a starting gate victim? Because it sure seems he is the victim a lot lately.


Absolutely.

Do you know anything of his childhood?


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## ku1980rose (Sep 7, 2010)

Conrad said:


> Absolutely.
> 
> Do you know anything of his childhood?


Yeah, it wasn't the best. Parents married young. They fought a lot, but didn't divorce until he was out of high school. Mother cheated. Then, when they divorced, she married a guy who is about my husband's age. 

Dad yelled a lot. Mom hit a lot.

Now he has NO relationship with his mom, but talks to his dad every day. They worked together a long time, too. Dad has mellowed out a lot.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

ku1980rose said:


> Yeah, it wasn't the best. Parents married young. They fought a lot, but didn't divorce until he was out of high school. Mother cheated. Then, when they divorced, she married a guy who is about my husband's age.
> 
> Dad yelled a lot. Mom hit a lot.
> 
> Now he has NO relationship with his mom, but talks to his dad every day. They worked together a long time, too. Dad has mellowed out a lot.


He sees himself as a victim.


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## ku1980rose (Sep 7, 2010)

Conrad said:


> He sees himself as a victim.


I definitely see that and understand where it is coming from. 

But, I don't know how to help him.

And, I don't think any amount of loving is going to help him until he helps himself.

And that makes me sad to say that. I don't want to give up on him, but I don't know anything else to do at this point.


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