# Emotional Boundaries



## Fly With Me (Jul 11, 2021)

Hi I am looking for some really good, thoughtful advice and perspective. As I've read the posts in here I've been impressed by the level of experience and non conventional wisdom many of you have and I'm hoping a few of you will take the time to help me.

*Intro*:

I'm in the midst of a marriage crisis that began in December when my husband told me he "loved me but wasn't in love with me anymore," that he didn't trust me and felt betrayed due to the unhealthy dynamics in our relationship and issues with our sex life, and that he'd finaly been honest and told Ellie (not her real name ), his best friend 19 years ago, his true feelings towards her. 

He'd always told me she was in love with him, but he had only ever had Platonic feelings for her and this ended the friendship. He was heartbroken at how he'd handled it and gutted that he'd lost the friendship. In December, he revealed that he had been lying to her, me and himself when he told us all that. The truth is he's always had feelings for her and the regret at lying to her has been tearing him up inside ever since. He showed me their email correspondence from the previous three weeks from first reconnecting, to him calling her and finally being honest with her about his feelings, she told him they would have been good together which led to him imagining and telling her how he imagined their life together could have been. He also shared with her that he has spent our marriage trying to be who other people wanted him to be - at work, with me and with his friends and that he missed her and wanted to make things right. 

*Some context about our relationship:

Sex*
I always thought we had an incredible marriage and deep friendship. My husband is an amazing man, kind, generous, sexy, deep, wise, loving and good to name just a few things about him. He has poured his heart and his soul into our marriage (apart from the parts of him that he hid and pushed away.) I grew up in a very religiously conservative Christian family, and he converted after we met. We dated for four years before we got married and never had PI, after marriage I had Vaginismus so it took us about two months maybe slightly more to have PI for the first time. After that sex was often painful for me and it created a deeply unhealthy dynamic in our sex life of him spending hours trying to arouse me enough to have non painful sex and meant we struggled to have a healthy amount of regular sex at various points. He told me that he needed things to change and did everything he could think of to make things better. His effort 100% my effort probably 20% . I just didn't get it. Things did gradually improve especially pain wise after having kids and particularly around three years ago when I connected with a Sex and Relationship Coach who introduced us to No More Mr Nice Guy which I then introduced him to. We had the best sex of our lives and ever since then I have had a night and day change in my sex drive, desire and experience of sex. But if he had come onto these boards and asked for advice at certain points particularly after the birth of our first son when we didn't have sex for 9 months!!! you guys would almost certainly have told him to leave me. Essentially he has been in a longterm relationship where for 16 out of the 19 years we've been together sex has been either not frequent enough or unsatisfactory for him. I get it now in a way I never did before how deep that need was for him and how devastating it was that I never met him there. 💔

*Physical abuse and other toxic habits*

The other important aspect about December/January this year is he started to tell me the truth about how he really felt - how he had suppressed his real thoughts, feelings and opinions. I began to see myself through his eyes . I started to really understand the major flaws in so many of the small things I said and did and behaved that were controlling, manipulative, selfish, aggressive, gas lighting, enmeshed etc... I always thought it was the big things that counted like faithfulness and loyalty and being there for someone but it is the little things that erode a marriage. How I wish I had known that 19 years ago. I have a Narcissistic mother and I absorbed far more from her than I really realised. I knew that I had always got too angry and early on in our relationship I had hit and slapped him during arguments probably between 10-20 times until he caught my hand one time and told me to never do it again and I didn't. It never seemed to bother him at the time but now he told me what that had done to him and how it had shattered his trust in me. As I've thought about it more deeply and allowed myself to really consider what I did and what it would have meant if the situation had been reversed and he'd hit me, the shame has been almost overwhelming.

*Co-dependence, enmeshment and attachment styles*

I went away and did some research and came back with the conclusion that we had been in an enmeshed and codependent relationship with him doing anything and everything for me. We realised that I had an avoidant attachment style along with multiple narcissistic habits, and he had an anxious one. My behaviours were toxic and whilst they had improved over time there were (and are - i still find new ones) still far too many things that I was doing that were destroying the relationship. It has utterly broken my heart to hear him describe how much I have hurt him. I always thought I was the best thing that ever happened to him. It turns out I may have been the worst.

*Falling Apart*

I always thought that he adored and loved me completely - anytime I asked for feedback he told me I was perfect (of course anytime he tried to give feedback I was incredibly defensive). The three weeks from Dec - Jan turned my whole world upside down. It shattered everything I thought was true about myself and our relationship. It feels like in many ways I died. He told me that he wanted to leave me, that he no longer believed in marriage or commitment, that he didn't trust me. I had always drawn so much of my identity from how I believed he felt about me - he was holding up my world - without him I had to face everything inside me that I had always run from. The worst was my deepest fear that I was a terrible person and fundamentally bad, wrong and a mistake. I had to face the fact that I hated myself and had allowed his love to counteract that rather than learning to love myself.

I want you to have that context so you know how good he is.

*The current situation*

This past six/seven months I have put all my focus on saving our marriage, on making amends, on actions rather than words, on putting everything right that I can in myself and in the relationship that he has told me about. Six months on I have done a 180 in terms of my behaviour and toxic habits, and we are exploring really fun things together like D/S and power dynamics etc... I'm reconnecting with my true self underneath all the toxicity. I'm exploring unexpressed parts of myself, and learning to like myself. I am so much happier and it is rippling out to impact our kids and my relationship with them as well. I am learning to be so much more open and honest and vulnerable. He says if I keep doing what I'm doing he thinks he could fall in love with me again. He is pouring himself into his own development - going to therapy, working through the co-dependency, the trauma I've caused and trying to trust me again.We are both trying so hard. All of this gives me hope.

*The dilemma*

Ever since reconnecting with Ellie he has remained in touch with her - they speak on the phone and message each other. I've tried not to ask too much about it other than to ask him to tell me if there's anything I need to know. (One of my toxic habits in the past was reading his emails and journal with his, what I now realise co-dependent, permission). One of the things he is heartbroken about is the loss of so many of his friends. The hope that he might be able to regain this friendship isn't one that I could ever snuff out. What happened in December when he was finally honest with us all has been beautiful and healing, alongside utterly devastating and heartbreaking. 

She is going to walk the Carmino in August something my husband has always wanted to do, and he has told me he will be going to walk the last part with her for a week. He says he can't live with regrets anymore, and he can't miss this chance to get his friend back.

He has also told me that he thinks he is probably intrinsically polyamarous (this was something that I looked into a few years back - he would never have considered it otherwise and only considered it in the context of another woman giving me pleasure and not wanting to stop me from experiencing that). Ironically after looking into it I feel more sure than ever that I am intrinsically monogamous. 

I don't believe he would do anything physical. We have talked about physical and emotional boundaries and he has said that he can respect my physical boundaries - no touching that goes beyond what would occur between good friends but when we started to talk about emotional boundaries it got more tricky.

All he wants in the world is to save his friendship with her and I want that for him too. I am ok with them being friends. But I can't handle more than that. I want to believe more than anything that we can repair our relationship and have the kind of intense, romantic, passionate marriage we've both always wanted. And that he can also have a connected, Platonic friendship with Ellie. 

I know it sounds crazy and I'm not stupid. Is there any chance of this? What is an emotional boundary and is there anyway to set some emotional boundaries in the same way as we set physical boundaries, so I can protect our marriage without controlling their relationship? I can't be the reason he loses her friendship for the second time and I don't want to give any ultimatums. I want him to have everything he's ever dreamed of.

He is going to go and I'm not going to end the marriage over it. So what kind of boundaries and honest conversations can we be having to have the best chance of protecting what we have without destroying their chance at friendship?

What worries me is that his energy levels in Dec/Jan when they reconnected and then again more recently since he made this decision to spend this week with her doing the Carmino have been off the charts. He's wanted sex almost as much as me for the first time in over a year. The intensity and romance have been everything I've ever wanted and at first I thought it was because of me and the changes we made but since he told me about this decision I'm wondering if it is the excitement of that impending trip that has caused the shift.

We've read Esther Perel and what she says about affairs bringing out parts of you that haven't been able to be present in the marriage. He says that the parts of him that have been suppressed need to have this time with her and that he thinks he can use their time together to become more whole and more himself and bring that back into his everyday life. He is so desperate and unhappy I could never deny him that. But I can't help wondering if there is another way.

He is an incredible man. If anyone can do this. Remain faithful to me whilst connecting with her it's him.

I don't want to be jealous and controlling and one of the things this whole crisis has done is helped me to realise how deeply and truly I do love him. I choose his happiness and freedom. If he chooses her or to leave me it will shatter me but given our history I would understand and this past six months has taught me that no matter what I will be ok, eventually. 

*My questions*

Can they be "just friends"?
What boundaries do we need for that to happen?
Is there another way for him to explore himself without devastating the parts of himself that have come alive through all this?

If you've made it through all of that thank you and if you take the time to share your wisdom and perspective I am so very grateful.


----------



## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

He is tired, he is beat, he is tired of being sexually unheard those years .......resentment.

He is finished....... He is in love...elsewhere


----------



## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Fly With Me said:


> Hi I am looking for some really good, thoughtful advice and perspective. As I've read the posts in here I've been impressed by the level of experience and non conventional wisdom many of you have and I'm hoping a few of you will take the time to help me.
> 
> *Intro*:
> 
> ...


The likelihood of this interaction remaining platonic is extremely low. You've read a lot of books or attended a lot of counseling. You have a lot of the buzz words memorized, but I don't think you're facing the unvarnished reality of your situation. Your relationship is severely damaged. He's looking for an exit path, in all likelihood.


----------



## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

> Can they be "just friends"?


Absolutely not. Reconnecting with someone he has feelings for and talking on the phone/messaging? This is highly inappropriate. Hell, even messaging another woman more than usual is a red flag, let alone this woman.



> What boundaries do we need for that to happen?


If this were merely just a female friend he never had designs on, there could be boundaries.

But in this situation the boundary should be clear. He should have no contact with her, and even if he thinks that is unreasonable, what is really unreasonable is that he can't see why you have a problem with this. Would he be ok with you texting another man he knows you might want to shag?



> Is there another way for him to explore himself without devastating the parts of himself that have come alive through all this?


Not sure what "exploring himself" even means, but whatever it means, he can do it WITHOUT canoodling with another woman that he is sweet on.


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

He has already told you he is in love with someone else and has been for years. Will they have sex when they go away for this walk? Absolutely they will.


----------



## Fly With Me (Jul 11, 2021)

Mr.Married said:


> He is tired, he is beat, he is tired of being sexually unheard those years .......resentment.
> 
> He is finished....... He is in love.


You're right. 💔 

At the same time he says it's not over yet. I don't deserve another chance but I can't help hoping and believing we could have something incredible together.

Do you think there's nothing I can do? 

Part of me finds it very easy to believe that given our history the right thing to do is just to make it as easy for him as possible to go.


----------



## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Fly With Me said:


> You're right. 💔
> 
> At the same time he says it's not over yet. I don't deserve another chance but I can't help hoping and believing we could have something incredible together.
> 
> ...


16 of 19 years ..... Not to be harsh but your lucky he lasted that long in my opinion. For a man that is like never hearing “I love you”.


----------



## Fly With Me (Jul 11, 2021)

drencrom said:


> Absolutely not. Reconnecting with someone he has feelings for and talking on the phone/messaging? This is highly inappropriate. Hell, even messaging another woman more than usual is a red flag, let alone this woman.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He doesn't think it's unreasonable and he can totally see my perspective.


----------



## Fly With Me (Jul 11, 2021)

Mr.Married said:


> 16 of 19 years ..... Not to be harsh but your lucky he lasted that long in my opinion. For a man that is like never hearing “I love you”.


I know. You're right.


----------



## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Fly With Me said:


> I know. You're right.


Strictly my opinion: That much religion kills a sex life ......


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

First off this is a very well written intro post.

My quick take is that he explained to you where he is at, he’s done and he wants to be with her. He may be with you now as a living arrangement or due to particulars in her life at the moment but you’re like a home base or backup while he pursues her.

My wife has some male friends she has had since high school but they’re basically (not to be mean) losers with redeeming qualities. To me they’re not threatening in any way, and to be honest if she suddenly confessed feelings for one of them I’d think she was mentally ill and send her on her way. So I don’t care if she is friends with them and talks with them and even goes out to have lunch or do activities with them because they’re not threatening in my mind.

With your husband this is the exact opposite. It’s not friends and even if she is not in a position where she can act on it now, maybe she will be in the future.

The main issue you have is that you have no leverage here. To change his behavior he needs to fear losing something. You’re trying to work back to that by becoming desirable the question is whether it is too little too late.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

How can he be just friends with someone he has already said he is in love with? And now he is going to spend a whole week with her? It seems fairly obvious he wants her more than you. He is going to another woman to talk about his problems rather that his wife. I'm sorry to say I think your opportunity to make this work may have already passed. You can let him go on that week with her, but don't expect things to be better when he gets back. What do you think will happen when he is in the presence of his long lost love continuously for a week? Would you really be comfortable sharing you husband with another woman, even if by some miracle it didn't turn physical?


----------



## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Short answer, no. Years of a lopsided marriage, have kind of broken the guy. After being sexually shutdown for so long, he suppressed himself for so long, in order to keep the family intact, that it kind of became his new normal. Connecting with this friend is brought up dormant feelings of wanting more out of a relationship. What you’re seeing as him being more upbeat and alive, is the excitement of pursuing a new love interest. The uptick in sex with you was most likely triggered by his desire for her.

When he gave you the I love you but I’m not in love with you speech, that is what he felt at the time but after the high wears off and you snap back to reality, he thinks about his family. Doing the right thing can way heavily on a guy, which is why you rarely have men willing to leave their family for the OW.

It will take some persistent effort to make him see the news you is real but even then, it’s hard to compete with a potential new love. He’s going to project all these positive qualities to her and remember the years of abuse he endured with you. Persistence is key. Can’t be sweet one day followed with the old you the next.


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

No.

What he’s proposing is to keep both of you. That doesn’t work for most people.


----------



## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

To little to late is what comes to mind. All he has to look back on over the years is pain and regret. Not much on his end to build back up with. I don’t think they will stay just friends for long. Especially if she is treating him they way you should have been all of these years. (This has nothing to do with sex)

The poly talk was about you and another woman to begin with?


----------



## Fly With Me (Jul 11, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> First off this is a very well written intro post.
> 
> My quick take is that he explained to you where he is at, he’s done and he wants to be with her. He may be with you now as a living arrangement or due to particulars in her life at the moment but you’re like a home base or backup while he pursues her.
> 
> ...


Thankyou that's kind. I dont want leverage not anymore. I want to know if there is a way we can all get out needs met without losing the exclusivity of our relationship.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Never confuse 'can' with 'should'.

Should he be having this relationship with this lady friend of 19 years?
No, but he can.

She has remained available, this makes that 'can' possible.

I agree with the others.

He has fallen out of love, ah, long before you made your reforms.

The other woman is handy, a kindred soul. 
I believe he thinks he loves her.
He is using her to escape from you,

Yes, it may be more, we don't know for sure.

One thing is a 'for sure'; she does not share any baggage with him.



Is there any hope for you?

Maybe, if the other lady turns him down, or turns-him-off, mentally, down the road.

Would you want him after he sampled her charms?



_King Brian-_


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Fly With Me said:


> Thankyou that's kind. I dont want leverage not anymore. I want to know if there is a way we can all get out needs met without losing the exclusivity of our relationship.


For the moment you have already lost the exclusivity in your relationship. He has been regularly talking to another woman that he has professed to love. I'm not sure the genie can be put back in the bottle.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Fly With Me said:


> Thankyou that's kind. I dont want leverage not anymore. I want to know if there is a way we can all get out needs met without losing the exclusivity of our relationship.


Not sure. I wouldn’t trust my wife to be hanging out with a guy she was having an emotional affair with to not make it physical. In fact, I wouldn’t put up with the emotional affair. If she wants that guy she can have him would be my starting point.


----------



## Trustless Marriage (Mar 1, 2021)

This would be a disaster waiting to happen. Even if they didn't have these feelings and were just friends, spending time together, even if just on the phone, can develop into a serious relationship. He has already said they have feelings towards each other so to me it's easy. He has to make a decision - her or you.


----------



## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Fly With Me said:


> Thankyou that's kind. I dont want leverage not anymore. I want to know if there is a way we can all get out needs met without losing the exclusivity of our relationship.


I don’t think there is a way. The trust I understand is that you have really changed the way you treat him. Not that either one of you have cheated in the past.


----------



## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

You are the best kind of TAMer. Your honest with yourself and listen to different perspectives. It can be hard to listen to difficult truths and accept ones own failures. Every relationship has two sides to the story. It’s amazing how well you recognize your partner’s version. No one here is against you. Self reflection can be tough.


----------



## Fly With Me (Jul 11, 2021)

Sfort said:


> The likelihood of this interaction remaining platonic is extremely low. You've read a lot of books or attended a lot of counseling. You have a lot of the buzz words memorized, but I don't think you're facing the unvarnished reality of your situation. Your relationship is severely damaged. He's looking for an exit path, in all likelihood.


Thanks for your perspective. I have done a **** ton of reading since December. I now need to do a **** ton of counselling. I'm trying to face the reality and at the same time there is a part of me that has so much hope.


----------



## Fly With Me (Jul 11, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> He has already told you he is in love with someone else and has been for years. Will they have sex when they go away for this walk? Absolutely they will.


If he tells me he won't I will believe him. He didn't have sex with me for four years so he has the will power if that is what he chooses.


----------



## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Fly With Me said:


> Thanks for your perspective. I have done a *** ton of reading since December. I now need to do a *** ton of counselling. I'm trying to face the reality and at the same time there is a part of me that has so much hope.


Just a thought. You might want to lay off of the counseling for a while and focus on facing reality. Then head back to counseling. I'm a fan of counseling, but it is not a substitute for reality.


----------



## Fly With Me (Jul 11, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> How can he be just friends with someone he has already said he is in love with? And now he is going to spend a whole week with her? It seems fairly obvious he wants her more than you. He is going to another woman to talk about his problems rather that his wife. I'm sorry to say I think your opportunity to make this work may have already passed. You can let him go on that week with her, but don't expect things to be better when he gets back. What do you think will happen when he is in the presence of his long lost love continuously for a week? Would you really be comfortable sharing you husband with another woman, even if by some miracle it didn't turn physical?


I don't know if he can. He doesn't know if he can. He wants to find out. He said that he hasn't spoken to her about anything he doesn't share with me too. I don't know. I hope some clarity and integration. I am not comfortable sharing my husband with another woman and after a lot of thought I don't think I have enough character to do it. Part of me wishes I did. What I really want to know is what the emotional line is and where the boundaries would need to be if he was willing to not pursue an emotionally romantic relationship with her (before inevitably that becoming physical).


----------



## Fly With Me (Jul 11, 2021)

jsmart said:


> Short answer, no. Years of a lopsided marriage, have kind of broken the guy. After being sexually shutdown for so long, he suppressed himself for so long, in order to keep the family intact, that it kind of became his new normal. Connecting with this friend is brought up dormant feelings of wanting more out of a relationship. What you’re seeing as him being more upbeat and alive, is the excitement of pursuing a new love interest. The uptick in sex with you was most likely triggered by his desire for her.
> 
> When he gave you the I love you but I’m not in love with you speech, that is what he felt at the time but after the high wears off and you snap back to reality, he thinks about his family. Doing the right thing can way heavily on a guy, which is why you rarely have men willing to leave their family for the OW.
> 
> It will take some persistent effort to make him see the news you is real but even then, it’s hard to compete with a potential new love. He’s going to project all these positive qualities to her and remember the years of abuse he endured with you. Persistence is key. Can’t be sweet one day followed with the old you the next.


I know. "When we know better we do better." That's all I can do. I haven't been. I won't be.


----------



## Fly With Me (Jul 11, 2021)

Openminded said:


> No.
> 
> What he’s proposing is to keep both of you. That doesn’t work for most people.


It would work for me if he could be happy with just friendship from her.


----------



## Fly With Me (Jul 11, 2021)

ABHale said:


> To little to late is what comes to mind. All he has to look back on over the years is pain and regret. Not much on his end to build back up with. I don’t think they will stay just friends for long. Especially if she is treating him they way you should have been all of these years. (This has nothing to do with sex)
> 
> The poly talk was about you and another woman to begin with?


Thank you for the response - yes that is what I am so afraid of.

Yes. I wasn't being serious and certianly wasn't asking for that - just 'have a read of this thread isn't this interesting.' He took it very seriously and thought I was asking.


----------



## Fly With Me (Jul 11, 2021)

SunCMars said:


> Never confuse 'can' with 'should'.
> 
> Should he be having this relationship with this lady friend of 19 years?
> No, but he can.
> ...


If he wants her more than me than I want him to be happy and I will let him go as cleanly and with as much love as I can. (We will be coparenting so we will have to figure that out as consciously as we can so we limit the damage to the kids.)

If the only reason that he's with me is that she turned him down I'm not sure I can do that. I want to be chosen. I know I don't deserve it. And at the same time I am much more aware now of my worth. I like myself in a way I didn't before. I have made mistakes. They have been devastating for my relationship and devastating for him. I would do anything to go back and change it all but I can't. All I can do is learn from them. All my mistakes dont negate my worth as a human being and a woman. 

If he sleeps with her when he's said he wouldn't then the relationship is no longer safe and I don't think I will be able to continue. Perhaps in the future there could be reconciliation I don't know. It's hard to know before something has happened. But at this point that is a fairly hard boundary for me.


----------



## Fly With Me (Jul 11, 2021)

Mr.Married said:


> You are the best kind of TAMer. Your honest with yourself and listen to different perspectives. It can be hard to listen to difficult truths and accept ones own failures. Every relationship has two sides to the story. It’s amazing how well you recognize your partner’s version. No one here is against you. Self reflection can be tough.


Thank you I appreciate that a lot.


----------



## Fly With Me (Jul 11, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> For the moment you have already lost the exclusivity in your relationship. He has been regularly talking to another woman that he has professed to love. I'm not sure the genie can be put back in the bottle.


I am hoping that's not the case but I can see that it looks that way.


----------



## Fly With Me (Jul 11, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Not sure. I wouldn’t trust my wife to be hanging out with a guy she was having an emotional affair with to not make it physical. In fact, I wouldn’t put up with the emotional affair. If she wants that guy she can have him would be my starting point.


Yes that is where I am at. I guess I'm not covinced that it is an emotional affair. I think it was. I don't know if it still is. I guess I want to know if there is a way to put the genie back in the bottle as the previous poster said. And I can see why others are saying that I'm not truly facing reality.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Fly With Me said:


> It would work for me if he could be happy with just friendship from her.


A good compromise, not a wise one.

Wisdom puts barely a dent in those deep feelings.

She is that finch or one of those tits, ever fluttering at your window.

You need to take charge of your man....while it is you can.

He sounds weak, bah, better tis' for you.

Tell him he is _yours_, there is NO her!



_Nemesis-_


----------



## Fly With Me (Jul 11, 2021)

Trustless Marriage said:


> This would be a disaster waiting to happen. Even if they didn't have these feelings and were just friends, spending time together, even if just on the phone, can develop into a serious relationship. He has already said they have feelings towards each other so to me it's easy. He has to make a decision - her or you.


If he cannot resolve his romantic feelings for her then that is the likely place we are headed.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Fly With Me said:


> I am hoping that's not the case but I can see that it looks that way.


It doesn't "look" that way, it is that way. He is already in the middle of an emotional affair with her and if you allow him to continue his "friendship" with her you are allowing his affair to continue.


----------



## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

The only thing to do is to show by your actions how you feel about him.

It just might be to late for this.

Wishing you well and hope your able to save your marriage.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Fly With Me said:


> Yes that is where I am at. I guess I'm not covinced that it is an emotional affair. I think it was. I don't know if it still is. I guess I want to know if there is a way to put the genie back in the bottle as the previous poster said. And I can see why others are saying that I'm not truly facing reality.


The only reference I have for this is about getting the genie out of the bottle which Christina Aguilera described in detail in her important work “Genie In a Bottle”.

I think what you’re doing sounds logical though in that you’re making yourself more desirable; the question is whether he has already moved on. It sounds like yes from what you wrote.


----------



## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

First, he is NOT working on your marriage if he is talking to a woman that he admits he loves. PERIOD.

Second, he put in the "I think I am polyamorus" has NOTHING to do with your older discussions. It has to do with HIM setting it up so that he can stay married with you, and still have this other woman.

You are saying he wants to go for a week long hike and WILL NOT sleep with her? Umm, yeah I REALLY doubt that.
What if you said YOU want to go on that hike with him? What if you said you would go with the BOTH OF THEM -- his reaction will tell you what you need to know about that trip.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

jlg07 said:


> First, he is NOT working on your marriage if he is talking to a woman that he admits he loves. PERIOD.
> 
> Second, the put in the "I think I am polyamorus" has NOTHING to do with your older discussions. It has to do with HIM setting it up so that he can stay married with you, and still have this other woman.
> 
> ...


You know exactly what will happen if she asks to go with. He wants alone time with the woman he loves and unfortunately it isn't his wife.


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Fly With Me said:


> It would work for me if he could be happy with just friendship from her.


But that’s not very likely.


----------



## Pip’sJourney (Mar 17, 2021)

Have you proposed going with him on this week long hike? Because his reaction to this would be very telling. Especially if he thinks he is poly. If he is very against this, I think you have his answer and I would not be a doormat. At that point I would tell him to move on. You cannot change past and the 16 years that were bad... you can now focus on being the best you you can be. His response to this shows if he is with you or not.. period.


----------



## MEA (Jul 12, 2021)

No, it is not possible.
Forget all of the psycho babble - you just need to trust your own instincts.
As for polyamory versus monogamy and all this other relationship jargon… don’t even get me started. If you want a monogamous relationship, find a man who wants the same. While marriage certainly comes with many compromises, morals and values should not be one of them. You should never compromise your morals or values to please another human being.


----------



## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Let him go


----------



## Fly With Me (Jul 11, 2021)

jlg07 said:


> First, he is NOT working on your marriage if he is talking to a woman that he admits he loves. PERIOD.
> 
> Second, he put in the "I think I am polyamorus" has NOTHING to do with your older discussions. It has to do with HIM setting it up so that he can stay married with you, and still have this other woman.
> 
> ...


Oh my goodness I could hug you. I don't know why I didn't think of that! We have four kids inc a 5 month old (don't ask the snip does not always work!!) I just assumed I would have to look after the kids but I could walk the carmino with the 5 month old in a sling and ask friends to watch the older kids for the week.

He has said he would love it if Ellie and I could be friends. And I have been longing for an adventure ever since this all started.

And you're right his response would tell both of us everything we need to know in a really helpful way.

Thank you so much!!!! Thank you so very much!!!!!!


----------



## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

I think your a smart lady and your going to get this stuff figured out one way or the other. 👍


----------



## Fly With Me (Jul 11, 2021)

Mr.Married said:


> I think your a smart lady and your going to get this stuff figured out one way or the other. 👍


Thankyou I hope so.


----------



## Fly With Me (Jul 11, 2021)

Gabriel said:


> Let him go


I have and I will if that is what he wants. Until then I'm going to fight for us with everything I have.


----------



## Fly With Me (Jul 11, 2021)

MEA said:


> No, it is not possible.
> Forget all of the psycho babble - you just need to trust your own instincts.
> As for polyamory versus monogamy and all this other relationship jargon… don’t even get me started. If you want a monogamous relationship, find a man who wants the same. While marriage certainly comes with many compromises, morals and values should not be one of them. You should never compromise your morals or values to please another human being.


I agree and this might end up being a key issue if he is polyamarous and wants the freedom to explore that.


----------



## Fly With Me (Jul 11, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> The only reference I have for this is about getting the genie out of the bottle which Christina Aguilera described in detail in her important work “Genie In a Bottle”.
> 
> I think what you’re doing sounds logical though in that you’re making yourself more desirable; the question is whether he has already moved on. It sounds like yes from what you wrote.


Yeah potentially. I guess we will find out. I am so grateful for yours and everyone's responses today. They have given me so much perspective and food for thought. Thank you


----------



## Fly With Me (Jul 11, 2021)

ABHale said:


> The only thing to do is to show by your actions how you feel about him.
> 
> It just might be to late for this.
> 
> Wishing you well and hope your able to save your marriage.


Thank you me too.


----------



## Fly With Me (Jul 11, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> It doesn't "look" that way, it is that way. He is already in the middle of an emotional affair with her and if you allow him to continue his "friendship" with her you are allowing his affair to continue.


Thanks for your perspective. I really appreciate it. I hope you're wrong but that doesn't mean I don't really value what you've said today.


----------



## Fly With Me (Jul 11, 2021)

SunCMars said:


> A good compromise, not a wise one.
> 
> Wisdom puts barely a dent in those deep feelings.
> 
> ...


This quote from Norweigian Wood is where I've been at: "Ok I'll wait. I believe in you. But when you take me you take only me. And when you hold me in your arms you think only about me. Is that clear?"


----------



## Fly With Me (Jul 11, 2021)

Openminded said:


> But that’s not very likely.


I no longer believe in much of what I was taught as a child. But I do still believe in miracles. And I also totally get your point.


----------



## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

Fly With Me said:


> He doesn't think it's unreasonable and he can totally see my perspective.


Ok, so he doesn't think its unreasonable that he acts inappropriately with other women.....but can see your perspective?

Ok, what is he prepared to do about it?


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Well if you are reading Esther Pearl for marriage advice no wonder your marriage is finally collapsing. Whose idea was it that you wanted to be with Women? Where EP is wrong is, not every urge or part of your nature has to be explored in marriage. That is not the point. The point of the marriage is us not you. If you hurts us then it shouldn't be acted on. Expecting and acting on everything you want in life is a childish way to think. She sells a lot of books though. (sigh)

I mean dude basically sacrificed his whole sex life for over a decade then you tell him as you are finally starting to have sex with him again that you want to be with other people. You married a very broken person to put up with all this that is for sure.

I think that is kind of the point. You guys both sound so dysfunctional and it's pretty clear that your dysfunction is what brought you together. He is your classic codependent white knight and you are a narcissist, as you say yourself. There is a book called Human Magnet Syndrome which is all about that. 

Of course NOW when you are about to lose him you are singing a different tune, but you should both be honest. Maybe as you both get better the things that kept you together are dying. Maybe it's better that it did die given all that has gone down. This is kind of harsh I admit it. I should preference it that I think you are being sincere and you had problems. It's just that your marriage has been so dysfunctional that maybe going back to it isn't best for either one of you.

The one I really feel bad for is this poor friend who has been in love with him for decades and is willing to be strung along. 

One other thing your husband is just as wrong as you were by being so passive in his marriage probably because he is afraid to confront. This is just as much his fault as your. No one should assign you all the blame. 

Anyway best you can to is talk about it. You get to decide what kind of marriage you want, one where you are both focused on working on it, or one where the wife doesn't really care about her husband's needs and he strings along some poor soul who pines after him.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

BigDaddyNY said:


> How can he be just friends with someone he has already said he is in love with? And now he is going to spend a whole week with her? It seems fairly obvious he wants her more than you. He is going to another woman to talk about his problems rather that his wife. I'm sorry to say I think your opportunity to make this work may have already passed. You can let him go on that week with her, but don't expect things to be better when he gets back. What do you think will happen when he is in the presence of his long lost love continuously for a week? Would you really be comfortable sharing you husband with another woman, even if by some miracle it didn't turn physical?


Well seems like he can be in love and married to someone and not have sex with them, so who knows?


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Fly With Me said:


> Thankyou that's kind. I dont want leverage not anymore. I want to know if there is a way we can all get out needs met without losing the exclusivity of our relationship.


I think you need to come to terms with the fact that marriage isn't about getting all your needs met, the point is actually the antithesis of that. It's about an emotional and physical commitment, it's about both of you meeting your partners needs. If you got married to have all your needs met, you are going to be disappointed.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Fly With Me said:


> I don't know if he can. He doesn't know if he can. He wants to find out. He said that he hasn't spoken to her about anything he doesn't share with me too. I don't know. I hope some clarity and integration. I am not comfortable sharing my husband with another woman and after a lot of thought I don't think I have enough character to do it. Part of me wishes I did. What I really want to know is what the emotional line is and where the boundaries would need to be if he was willing to not pursue an emotionally romantic relationship with her (before inevitably that becoming physical).


OP, he was able to deal with not having a more substantial relationship with you by having one with her, at least an emotional one. Not all the problems in your marriage are your doing. He hasn't been a great husband. He has been totally passive to the point of allowing you to get her. He has also had a long term emotional affair with his "friend" who he knew was in love with him. Now is almost open about it, but it has been going on for a long time.

Again are you sure you want this marriage to continue?


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

It seems v sad to me that now your marriage is better than it ever has been he is risking loosing it all. He needs to decide if he wants his family or the OW. Him going away for a week with another woman is crazy. If he wants to reconnect with friends then can't it be with male friends?
Is the lady in a relationship?


----------



## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Fly With Me said:


> He doesn't think it's unreasonable and he can totally see my perspective.


I'm not sure what that means. Your "perspective" seems to have become one of permissiveness built on a house of guilt. He's in a position where he can rationalize your approval of most anything so he can let things evolve naturally without boundaries being an issue. Those boundaries can be moved based on his evolving feelings. That seems to be your perspective.


----------



## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

One other thing that @sokillme pointed out. Ester Perel actually seems to be pretty pro-affair -- that it can help the marriage. I CERTAINLY wouldn't use anything she has to say about adultery as any sort of guidance.

Here is one point about her: from: In Defense of Adulterers

"This approach, Perel believes, does little justice to the “multifaceted experience of infidelity.” It demonizes adulterers, without pausing to explore their motives. It focusses on the traumatic effects of affairs, without acknowledging their “generative” possibilities. “To look at straying simply in terms of its ravages is not only reductionistic but also unhelpful,” she writes. Affairs can be devastatingly painful for the ones betrayed, but they can also be invigorating for marriages. If couples could be persuaded to take a more sympathetic, less catastrophic view of infidelity, they would, she proposes, have a better chance of weathering its occasional occurrence. When people ask her if she is against or in favor of affairs, her standard response is “yes.” "

Yeah, NOT someone I want to have guide me about marriage AT ALL.


----------



## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Confess I didn't read the whole OP. 

Regarding the title, yes, it's possible, but in your case doesn't sound very likely.


----------



## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Fly With Me said:


> If he wants her more than me than I want him to be happy and I will let him go as cleanly and with as much love as I can. (We will be coparenting so we will have to figure that out as consciously as we can so we limit the damage to the kids.)
> 
> If the only reason that he's with me is that she turned him down I'm not sure I can do that. I want to be chosen. I know I don't deserve it. And at the same time I am much more aware now of my worth. I like myself in a way I didn't before. I have made mistakes. They have been devastating for my relationship and devastating for him. I would do anything to go back and change it all but I can't. All I can do is learn from them. All my mistakes dont negate my worth as a human being and a woman.
> 
> If he sleeps with her when he's said he wouldn't then the relationship is no longer safe and I don't think I will be able to continue. Perhaps in the future there could be reconciliation I don't know. It's hard to know before something has happened. But at this point that is a fairly hard boundary for me.


It sounds like you’re in a good place with this, as as good as one can be, and fairly well grounded in reality (other than thinking it’s possible for him to maintain this woman as a platonic friend).
I would communicate all of what you wrote above with your husband and make sure he understands your boundaries and his choices.


----------



## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Also, I agree with the others this polyamorous crap is ********. He’s just trying to rationalize/justify keeping you and still getting to have her. And because of his pain/resentment, he feels justified in doing so.


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

He’s married to you. Regardless of your past, he chose to stay. Suddenly he chooses to start things up with an old flame and she gives him the go ahead and he’s “polyamourous”?

I’d just let him go on the walk with his lost love, but go ahead and file.  You shouldn’t get to test drive other women in front of your wife and claim you’re poly. Did he mention that when he first married you?


----------



## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

You sound like a very intelligent and pragmatic thinking woman....All that said..

He somehow managed to get you to completely crap on yourself, so he can relieve himself of any guilt he may have for what he's trying to do at this point...I don't necessarily blame him, ask a lot of guys and if they are being honest, they would love to have at least a couple of women around without the other's wanting to carve their rivals name with a screwdriver into the door of his shiny car...

As far as the "friends" part goes, there are a lot of opinions about this and not all guys are the same...I can only speak for myself, the only women over the years, that ever wanted to be my "friend" either really wanted some d!ck, or wanted something else I could provide for them(money, support, fix stuff or move heavy crap)...It was never anything like any guy friendship I have, not by a long shot...So unless I had intentions of getting laid, I really had no interest in giving away free labor and getting nothing in return...Most men don't need a female perspective on life events that isn't their wife or SO...

So what type is he, and what is he after? Not what he told, you, but what do YOU think??

Additionally I have never been with a woman that was fine with me having female friends...I know there are guys in relationships that successfully do this, and their wives are ok with it, but I don't know any, and I know a LOT of men...I get the feeling that you are forcing yourself to be ok with this, and in no way are you comfortable with it...You might not be the type to slash her tires, but I get the feeling that you aren't cool with it...

Just my .02? He doesn't care about you, but if you are willing to act like a dog that's been hit on the snout with a newspaper, then you can hang around...I don't think you want that, but that's the gist I am feeling here....Bear this in mind as well...When you were in the long sexual dry spell, who knows if he wasn't getting it somewhere else? You don't know that....How might that change your perspective about how little he was getting and how you let him down there? IME, most guys don't wait around forever for this stuff to be resolved...some get by with porn, others get theirs on the street....


----------



## Fly With Me (Jul 11, 2021)

sokillme said:


> Well if you are reading Esther Pearl for marriage advice no wonder your marriage is finally collapsing. Whose idea was it that you wanted to be with Women? Where EP is wrong is, not every urge or part of your nature has to be explored in marriage. That is not the point. The point of the marriage is us not you. If you hurts us then it shouldn't be acted on. Expecting and acting on everything you want in life is a childish way to think. She sells a lot of books though. (sigh)
> 
> I mean dude basically sacrificed his whole sex life for over a decade then you tell him as you are finally starting to have sex with him again that you want to be with other people. You married a very broken person to put up with all this that is for sure.
> 
> ...


It was an intellectual curiosity on my part that caused a very hurtful misunderstanding like you say. One of many things I regret. Thanks for your thoughts you make some helpful points.


----------



## Fly With Me (Jul 11, 2021)

sokillme said:


> OP, he was able to deal with not having a more substantial relationship with you by having one with her, at least an emotional one. Not all the problems in your marriage are your doing. He hasn't been a great husband. He has been totally passive to the point of allowing you to get her. He has also had a long term emotional affair with his "friend" who he knew was in love with him. Now is almost open about it, but it has been going on for a long time.
> 
> Again are you sure you want this marriage to continue?


It hasn't been a longterm emotional affair in that they have only been back in touch properly since December. His hidden feelings for her have been longterm.

I do want the marriage to continue. I'm not blind to the problems. I hope and believe we can both grow through this and make the marriage stronger and as beautiful as we both once dreamed it could be. I guess time will tell if that's possible.


----------



## Fly With Me (Jul 11, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> It seems v sad to me that now your marriage is better than it ever has been he is risking loosing it all. He needs to decide if he wants his family or the OW. Him going away for a week with another woman is crazy. If he wants to reconnect with friends then can't it be with male friends?
> Is the lady in a relationship?


He does. I want him to make the decision in his own time though. I've put him through a lot he needs to know I've really changed and that I really do love him. It might be crazy - he's aware of the risk he's taking. After this thread I've realised I do need to be more clear about that. Ha! I would love it if it could be  I think she might be in a not very happy short term relationship.


----------



## Fly With Me (Jul 11, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> He’s married to you. Regardless of your past, he chose to stay. Suddenly he chooses to start things up with an old flame and she gives him the go ahead and he’s “polyamourous”?
> 
> I’d just let him go on the walk with his lost love, but go ahead and file. You shouldn’t get to test drive other women in front of your wife and claim you’re poly. Did he mention that when he first married you?


There's more nuance than that. He wasn't poly 15 years ago or at least if he was he didn't know he was.


----------



## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Fly With Me said:


> I do want the marriage to continue. I'm not blind to the problems. I hope and believe we can both grow through this and make the marriage stronger and as beautiful as we both once dreamed it could be. I guess time will tell if that's possible.


I think you are hopeful and wistful for something that isn't there. The outcome you want and his actions just simply do not align. I know this is hard, but I think you need to take step back and question why you are essentially lying to yourself about the reality of the situation.


----------



## roshnikhanna (Jul 13, 2021)

He has already told you he is in love with someone else and has been for years.


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Fly With Me said:


> There's more nuance than that. He wasn't poly 15 years ago or at least if he was he didn't know he was.


You don’t get it. He’s not poly. He wants his old Gf and wants to keep you on the hook so he’s got his cake. You are over complicating things.


----------



## Fly With Me (Jul 11, 2021)

hamadryad said:


> You sound like a very intelligent and pragmatic thinking woman....All that said..
> 
> He somehow managed to get you to completely crap on yourself, so he can relieve himself of any guilt he may have for what he's trying to do at this point...I don't necessarily blame him, ask a lot of guys and if they are being honest, they would love to have at least a couple of women around without the other's wanting to carve their rivals name with a screwdriver into the door of his shiny car...
> 
> ...


Over the years he gave up on a lot of his dreams for adventure, travel, risk taking and she represents all those things to him. Once he cares about someone they are always in his heart. She was his best friend throughout his teenage years and was always there for him. He feels awful about lying to her and he misses her and wants to help her if he can. 

I'm definitely not comfortable with it. I do think we could be friends because what I know of her I like. If we could be friends with her as a couple and I felt like she was a friend to both of us and didn't have an agenda I feel like there's a possibility it could work. That may sound naieve.

I am quite flexible and accommodating but I do have some hard boundaries and this thread is helping me figure out some more. 

We've always been honest with eachother about stuff like that. He always told me whenever he used porn.


----------



## Fly With Me (Jul 11, 2021)

re16 said:


> I think you are hopeful and wistful for something that isn't there. The outcome you want and his actions just simply do not align. I know this is hard, but I think you need to take step back and question why you are essentially lying to yourself about the reality of the situation.


Thanks for your thoughts. Yeah it is hard. Nothing in my life has ever been this hard. But it has brought good things into our lives so far despite how hard it has been. We are both growing and maturing more in the last six months than we have in 15 years of marriage. I know the final outcome may not be what I'm hoping for.


----------



## Fly With Me (Jul 11, 2021)

Casual Observer said:


> I'm not sure what that means. Your "perspective" seems to have become one of permissiveness built on a house of guilt. He's in a position where he can rationalize your approval of most anything so he can let things evolve naturally without boundaries being an issue. Those boundaries can be moved based on his evolving feelings. That seems to be your perspective.


You might be right about that. I do have boundaries that can't be moved. Thanks for your thoughts.


----------



## Fly With Me (Jul 11, 2021)

DudeInProgress said:


> It sounds like you’re in a good place with this, as as good as one can be, and fairly well grounded in reality (other than thinking it’s possible for him to maintain this woman as a platonic friend).
> I would communicate all of what you wrote above with your husband and make sure he understands your boundaries and his choices.


Thank you. I will. This thread and everyone's comments have been really help for that.


----------



## Fly With Me (Jul 11, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> You don’t get it. He’s not poly. He wants his old Gf and wants to keep you on the hook so he’s got his cake. You are over complicating things.


If that's the case then he will have to make a choice.


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Basic everyday affair with an ex...... but he has been able to convince his wife he’s “poly” and convinced her he wants to spend a week with his AP to “build the friendship”.... 

He must be Obiwan Kenobi!!!!!!!
His Jedi mind t err i is are the best ever. I am in awe of this guy. I wonder if he is willing to mentor me?


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Fly With Me said:


> If that's the case then he will have to make a choice.


I’m what way? You’re allowing the trip. 
What are your boundaries?
He is going off With another woman he’s admitted to being in love with for a week.
Are you ok with having a sister wife? Maybe that could work out great for you. Heck, if he went without sex for a decade, and stayed faithful, I can see where you might feel you even owe him as much. 

But pretending he’s not going to be having sex with this woman on their one week adventure is just plain sticking your head in the sand.


----------



## Fly With Me (Jul 11, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> I’m what way? You’re allowing the trip.
> What are your boundaries?
> He is going off With another woman he’s admitted to being in love with for a week.
> Are you ok with having a sister wife? Maybe that could work out great for you. Heck, if he went without sex for a decade, and stayed faithful, I can see where you might feel you even owe him as much.
> ...


You're right that I feel I owe him a lot. I don't want a sister wife. He has told me he is only looking for friendship. He can't have us both. If he crosses the friendship boundary on the trip he has made his decision.


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

I'm really sorry you're going through this trauma. Your husband has been gaslighting you since December and somehow you have managed to believe that his unhappiness is all your fault. He is absolutely giddy at the thought of satisfying his supposed unrequited love. 

He supposedly lied to his girlfriend and she ditched him. Why would he do that? How can you trust that he is being honest with you? Who reconnected with whom and by what means i.e. facebook?

This could be a rather typical mid-life crisis or it could be a case of a guy who is absolutely giddy that he talked his wife into letting him go be with his wannabe lover for a whole week in the guise of reestablishing a friendship which really wasn't. It's too bad he doesn't want to experience such a thrill as the Camino with you rather than the old girlfriend.

Sorry, I don't mean to be a downer; but, you are being way too hard on yourself and way too easy on him. I hope it works out in your and your children's best interest.


----------



## Fly With Me (Jul 11, 2021)

Thanks so much for all the comments its been really helpful. I will take some time to process everything.


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I hope things go well for you. You definitely have put some thought into things and tried to see his perspective...
Realize he’s told you he loves her. He’s not going there for friendship. He’s finding out if she wants to be with him. If she doesn’t, you’re plan B.
But again, I hope the best for you.


----------



## Pip’sJourney (Mar 17, 2021)

Fly With Me said:


> Over the years he gave up on a lot of his dreams for adventure, travel, risk taking and she represents all those things to him. Once he cares about someone they are always in his heart. She was his best friend throughout his teenage years and was always there for him. He feels awful about lying to her and he misses her and wants to help her if he can.
> 
> I'm definitely not comfortable with it. I do think we could be friends because what I know of her I like. If we could be friends with her as a couple and I felt like she was a friend to both of us and didn't have an agenda I feel like there's a possibility it could work. That may sound naieve.
> 
> ...


Any friend has to be friends of the marriage and you both. Have you brought up going with him to the week thing?


----------



## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Fly With Me said:


> You're right that I feel I owe him a lot. I don't want a sister wife. He has told me he is only looking for friendship. He can't have us both. If he crosses the friendship boundary on the trip he has made his decision.


I think you do owe him a lot, and it is yet to be determined if you’ll be able to turn things around at this point. I hope you both can.

But allowing a completely inappropriate relationship to continue/accelerate is NOT the way forward. this “friendship“ can only end badly for your marriage. Given what you have written, it’s almost impossible to imagine that this will not cross lines/boundaries.

Far better to just say no right now. He can choose to work on your marriage together, or he can choose not too. But allowing him to pursue a “friendship” with this woman is not the way forward.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Fly With Me said:


> You're right that I feel I owe him a lot. I don't want a sister wife. He has told me he is only looking for friendship. He can't have us both. If he crosses the friendship boundary on the trip he has made his decision.


He can have male friendships.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

It's a great idea of another posters for you to say to him that you can arrange for people to have the children so that you can go as well. Come across all excited and see what he says. I suspect he will make all sorts of excuses as to why that would not work. Why you can't come. The fact is he doesn't want you there. It's not appropriate for a married man to spend a week alone with another woman. There is no way I would accept that. It's crazy. 
If he wants friends then there are plenty of men around.


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

“He told me that he wanted to leave me, that he no longer believed in marriage or commitment.
He has also told me that he thinks he is probably intrinsically polyamorous.

Recently since he made this decision to spend this week with her doing the Carmino have been off the charts. He's wanted sex almost as much as me for the first time in over a year.”

He’s not having sex with you. He’s having sex with her in his mind.
He’s told you everything you need to know.
The answer to your question is a resounding no.


----------



## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Can you contact this other woman? TELL her what him being "friends" with her is doing to YOUR marriage?
SHE may not care at all, maybe she will. If she cares, ask her to STOP talking with him for the next 6 months and to NOT have him come on any trip with her. I don't know enough about her from what you've said, so it may NOT make any difference.

However, the WOMAN is not really the problem -- your H is.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

You have to wonder what he has told the OW and how she thinks this is in any way ok.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Fly With Me said:


> It hasn't been a longterm emotional affair in that they have only been back in touch properly since December. His hidden feelings for her have been longterm.
> 
> I do want the marriage to continue. I'm not blind to the problems. I hope and believe we can both grow through this and make the marriage stronger and as beautiful as we both once dreamed it could be. I guess time will tell if that's possible.


Something doesn't seem right. She supposedly loved him and he didn't feel romantic towards her so the friendship ended. If he were really in love with her back then, why did he let her go and end up marrying you? What reason did he give for lying to her about his feelings for her? I suspect he is lying and it was a romantic relationship and one of them broke it off and now they are think about getting back together. Is that a possibility?


----------



## Fly With Me (Jul 11, 2021)

Hi thanks all for your patience. I got a bit overwhelmed and needed to take a break but wanted to come back and give an update. All your advice and comments particularly the first day I posted really helped. Thankyou.

We spoke about me coming too and he said that he needed the alone time so that he could access the parts of him that came alive with her and not with me so that he could reintegrate. He pointed out that our best times together had been before he had learned about the opportunity to go on this trip and so the energy was for me not for her.

I know you guys aren't big fans of esther perel but one of the things she talks about is how people often have affairs to reconnect with parts of themselves they have suppressed.

Anyway, he basically said he had very few romantic feelings for her but he desperately wanted those suppressed parts of him back so he could be a whole person again. That he knew it was unorthodox but he needed to do it.

My head and my heart were on fire, still are sometimes, but before he left we had such good connection and he said he thought we were actually perfect for eachother. And said we were both to blame for what happened between us. It wasn't all me. It felt like the beginning of something again for us.

My gut said I could trust him and that he needed to go and see. Reconect with himself primarily. And deep down I guess I wanted to know which of us he would choose if he was truly free to choose. My gut said it was me. It had always been me and that's why he chose me all those years ago. But either way i guess at that point we both needed to know one way or the other. So he went and I supported him and...

They hugged twice at the beginning and end of the trip and once for a photo. There were other people with them the whole time. He connected with parts of him he'd lost and came to terms with his choices all those years ago. That he had chosen me and she wasn't the same person anymore. He was able to be friends without the baggage. He stayed in touch with me the whole time and told me how excited he was to come home to me and begin a new adventure and chapter in our marriage.

Since coming back he has barely spoken or thought about her and I can feel that. He says he has fallen back in love with me and that the parts of him that had feelings for her are now falling for me too. It feels like a second honeymoon phase in many ways. He said he is having the affair he needed with me instead of another woman.

In many ways he has had the kind of crisis that leads to affairs but been open with me throughout the whole process rather than keeping secrets and lying. It has been hands down the worst and hardest experience of my life but potentially also the most transformative both for me personally and for our marriage going forward.

There is still a lot for us to work through particularly around not falling back into old patterns and meeting eachother's needs but.... it seems like I may have got my miracle.

Thanku all so much.


----------



## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

We’re just friends is the biggest lie told here.


----------



## Fly With Me (Jul 11, 2021)

Marc878 said:


> We’re just friends is the biggest lie told here.


Sure. I am choosing to trust him and my own internal gut feeling. He told me and was honest with me about his 'more than friendship' feelings. And I could feel it for 7 months. And he now says that it's changed/changing. And I can feel that too.


----------



## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Good luck


----------



## Fly With Me (Jul 11, 2021)

Marc878 said:


> Good luck


Thankyou.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Fly With Me said:


> Hi thanks all for your patience. I got a bit overwhelmed and needed to take a break but wanted to come back and give an update. All your advice and comments particularly the first day I posted really helped. Thankyou.
> 
> We spoke about me coming too and he said that he needed the alone time so that he could access the parts of him that came alive with her and not with me so that he could reintegrate. He pointed out that our best times together had been before he had learned about the opportunity to go on this trip and so the energy was for me not for her.
> 
> ...


I'm glad to hear things seem to have gone okay. I'm not sure I would have your ability to trust that nothing happened, but that is your choice and no one here is as close to the situation as you. The fact that he stayed in touch the whole time and that he seems to be over it now are good signs. Only time will tell. I would worry that he will get restless again, but hopefully not. I wish you the best of luck. And please give updates from time to time. I'm personally always looking for stories with a positive outcome.


----------



## Fly With Me (Jul 11, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I'm glad to hear things seem to have gone okay. I'm not sure I would have your ability to trust that nothing happened, but that is your choice and no one here is as close to the situation as you. The fact that he stayed in touch the whole time and that he seems to be over it now are good signs. Only time will tell. I would worry that he will get restless again, but hopefully not. I wish you the best of luck. And please give updates from time to time. I'm personally always looking for stories with a positive outcome.


Thankyou. I really appreciate all that a lot.

I think he will get restless again if we fall back into old, comfortable/familiar patterns. We had kind of become quite one dimensional with eachother and there is so much more to both of us.

I think if we can keep accessing the different aspects of our personalities and become / stay more multi dimensional with eachother then there will hopefully be no more need for the restlessness.

Easy to say ;-)

I will keep in touch. Thanks for caring.


----------

