# Can You Still Love Your Spouse & Have & Affair?



## Granny7 (Feb 2, 2013)

When my CH of 23 yrs. at the age of 40 was at a business conference, a employee that works under him came on to him in the ****tail lounge. She sat next to him and proceeded to flirt and build up his ego. She was a secretary and he was a Senior Vice-President of a large corporation. She knew he was married, had children, etc. She worked in one of the branches, not in the main headquarters. So for 2 nights, everyone got together, had ****tails, danced and talked. Nothing else happened. She suggested, that maybe they could get together for lunch one day. Well my husband did end up calling her, rationalizing that he wasn't doing anything to bad and called her to meet for lunch. his is an excuse to see her again. So then things proceeded to ****tails, more dancing, kissing and eventually off for 2 weekends in the course of 3 yrs. His love letters were very passionate and she believed that he loved her. As she said, she wouldn't have stayed in it otherwise as no one likes to feel used. The OWH sent me the love letters and that's how I found out. My CH lied like crazy and wouldn't tell me the truth, nor the details of anything. I had to call her to try and get some answers to if they went off together or not. I often wonder why she did see me twice and talk on the phone several times? I still think they were talking to each other to keep their stories straight. 

It was a rocky 5 yrs. with MC & my IC. First he told me I couldn't go because we couldn't afford it, which wasn't true. I finally was at the point of a nervous break down and had to go. He didn't go to IC from the very beginning as he didn't believe in therapy. When he went with me, his participating was minimal. After 5 yrs. of therapy, group sessions, Retro weekends that I went on to keep myself sane and try to salvage the marriage, I finally made the decision to let it go and forgive him. I hadn't stopped loving him at that time, which surprises me after all that I had been through with. I decided to forgive him and move on and that's what I did for over 20 yrs. 

I go now from being sad, frustrated and angry at him. I don't even think that I have any feelings left at this point. I feel like I am living a life of a liar, but he knows how I feel, so it is out in the open. He knows how angry I am at him for not telling me the truth from the very beginning. His lying to me wasn't fair. I had the right to know, so I could make the decision if I wanted him to stay or go and he took that away from me. If I had know sooner, I would have divorced him, as it was the one thing that I couldn't live with or forgive. I had already put up with so much with his control, drinking and not being a good Father or give me the emotional support when I needed it. I so wish he had been honest with me from the very beginning. Yes, I would have left him as he had basically killed me the night I found out about the A. I had 4 D-days of trickle truth, that I found myself by going through receipts and phone call records. He changed the course of my life by what he did and I had no say so in it. It's all about morals and lies!

Fast Forward 25 more yrs. when his behavior changed after the stock market crash, more drinking, daughter owing us $10,000 and not paying it back like she promised. She would have been in jail and our 3 granddaughter's wouldn't have had a Mother and she would have had a record. We were the only one's that had the money to help her. He also stopped showing me affection, even though I would show him. Sex maybe every 3 months and I would initiate it. This all made me question my whole life and while looking back on it I realized that he had always took in the marriage and I gave. I loved him very much, didn't work, except in the home and took care of everything. So all of this made me start questioning if we ever had a good marriage? I started trying to put the pieces of our life together and figure out what we really did have going for us all those 45 yrs. or so. So, I started back into therapy as I was getting very depressed again. I started asking him the same questions that I asked him over 25 yrs. ago, hoping that now he would give me some answer's so that we could get on with our life. I still loved him at that point. But these past 2 yrs. have been hell, arguing, fighting, verbal abuse on his part. He doesn't like to be questioned and looses his temper and the stress level was so high that it started affecting my health. 

I was trying to get to the bottom of the exact question that this post is about. How much did he love her, did he feel guilty, how did he get so involved if he loved me? How could he look me in the eye and tell me he loved me after being out with her the same night? How did he get so involved with her, when he swears that he never stopped loving me? His behavior during those 3 yrs. wasn't very good. I blamed it on his high level job, but it wasn't. It was trying to lead 2 lives, drinking a lot more. He was really cruel sometimes and wasn't as interested in making love as much as he had before the A. I still believe that he loved her and himself more than he loved me. I was just his warm place to come home to. She ended the A right before our 25th Wedding Anniversary, when they got into an argument while in the spa at a hotel. She walked out on him and he wasn't very happy about it. He even swallowed his pride to see her a couple more times, so that it could be called off in a better way. He still cared, so the A wasn't winding itself down in his mind. He had just went off on a weekend 3 months before that special event, so he sure wasn't thinking of our 25th. Anniversary was he?

So, that's why I am asking this question, sorry I got a little long winded there.

CAN YOU LOVE YOUR SPOUSE AND DISRESPECT HER, WITHOUT THINKING THAT YOU ARE DOING THAT, AND STILL CHEAT AND LOVE ANOTHER WOMAN? I DON'T PERSONALLY CALL THAT LOVE! SO, I'M ASKING THAT QUESTION NOW OF OTHERS ON HERE THAT HAVE BEEN PERSONALLY INVOLVED ONE WAY OR THE OTHER?

If you truly love your spouse and someone flirts with you, wether you've been drinking or not, does that mean all of a sudden you forget your married? Especially if you ARE GETTING YOUR NEEDS MET AT HOME BY A WIFE WHO LOVES YOU AS MUCH AFTER 23 YRS. AS THE DAY SHE MARRIED YOU. Can a person make that much of an impression on you for you to forget your wife, children, your job that you have worked so hard to achieve. Forget your wedding vows, lose your morals, character and respect for your wife and even yourself? It's that easy to betray and look your partner in the face when you come home after kissing the OW? Betrayal is that easy for a man that claims to love his wife?

If they had worked together, side by side for months on a project, I can see where it would have happened a little better, even though their is never an excuse. However, for the life of me I can't understand what would possess a man to forget his wife who loved him dearly, was affectionate, sexy, built his ego up and did everything possible to show him how much she loved him and he was able to just put forget that and the 23 yrs. of marriage and pursue another woman? Not to mention that she was married with 2 little girls. 

He was never the type to flirt with other women, he was around them all the time, they worked for him, but she was the first one to actively flirt so openly with him. Nothing has happened in the 25 yrs. since then either. I just can't get it in my head that her flirting was all it took for him to act on it? He sure wasn't missing anything at home and yes I know that new things can be exciting, but I never thought he would act on it. I was asked to have an A once with one of the people at a National Conference, he was good looking, I knew him well and was a few yrs. younger than me. I just smiled, told him, "No Thank you, I'm happily married and wouldn't do that to my husband." He knew my husband very well also. He understood and we continued to be friends. 

Can someone help me out on this. He will not admit that he never stopped loving me during the A. He claims that he just enjoyed the extra attention, it made him feel young, she built up his ego and he enjoyed it. No one had ever come on to him before and he was weak and wanted to pursue it. He didn't think of me and my getting hurt, because I didn't know about it and he felt that they could cover it up really well. She was also married, with 2 little girls and he never even gave it a second thought that he was messing around with another man's wife (of course she gave him the story that her marriage wasn't doing that good) she had little children that could get hurt. He could have lost his job at their company as they are totally against dating anyone that works together, especially if they are married to someone else and also if your an executive on the board. It was highly frowned upon. When I received the love letters and they were really hurtful to read. He told her, "That no one had ever meant as much to him as she did and that he couldn't imagine living life without her." Those are pretty powerful things to say to the OW, yet she never told him she loved him. 

He knew my feelings on cheating very clearly, as some of our friends had done it in the past and I told him, "If he did that to me he would be out the door in a heartbeat." If he had only told me the truth from the beginning that's what would have happened, but he made it out to be only for lunch's for a few months and I was in so much shock that I couldn't even re-read those letters, as the answers were right there in them.

So, I know I've gotten way off course, but if you truly love your wife, drinking or not, wouldn't you have gotten out of the situation? We are having major arguments on this and he doesn't have an answer, except that he feels that he was selfish and he wanted to do what he wanted to do and he knew that he was never going to marry her or anything. It was just fun and I wasn't getting hurt.

<<<I need to add a very important fact to this question. Their was no sex involved. It was an E/A of 3 yrs. and it was off and on, as her husband found out about it and sent me a letter. But I unfortunately believed my H as he was always home. So this extra information does add more to the question!>>>

Thanks for any input on this question. I'm so sorry it was so long. I just am so sad, angry and don't know what I am going to do with my life right now. I just turned 70 and these should be the best yrs. of our life, but I can't seem to forget all the hurt and betrayal and move on. Believe me, I wish I could as it would be so nice to be happy again. 

Granny7


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## 5Creed (May 29, 2011)

Yes; I do believe that you can still love your spouse but also cheat on them at the same time. With my husband, I feel it was purely selfishness on his part. He liked his ego stroked by her, and she made him feel "special." They aren't thinking with their head when they get all this attention and it trumps what they have at home.

I can feel in your post how hurt you are by his actions. There is nothing more devastating than being betrayed like this. My husband also told me he would NEVER cheat and I believed it. Given the right circumstances and the state of our marriage, it happened.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Men are not always emotionally involved in sex, but some emotions always come into play, even if the intention is to leave them out. But for sure when a couple is really in love they don't have such a great need to go outside the marriage. Emotional neglect is not the only reason for affairs. Women can be curious about sex, too.

Regardless, fornication is seldom directly positive to a marital relationship.

In your situation, there are different questions:

1) Do you want to punish your husband for what happened back then? That is legit, I mean you cannot deny the feeling if you have it.

2) Do you think that more description of your husband's thoughts and emotions back then will satisfy you? It has been a long time. He may not remember everything clearly.

3) Are you satisfied today? What needs fixing?


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## verpin zal (Feb 23, 2013)

Grand Masters of Rugsweep can do that, I hear tell. Must take years of practice.

It all starts with "there is no rug".


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Yes, you can love your spouse and have an affair. You risk hurting them if they find out, of course, and damaging or destroying the relationship. But, that does not mean you don't love them.

Look at it from the perspective of an open marriage. Either or both can have sex with other people, yet still be deeply in love, and care about each other, etc. The primary difference is that the "affair" in this case is completely open and consensual, so there is no cheating, no lying, no emotional distress or relationship damage. In cheating, you risk the harm and damage, probably out of selfishness, but that does not equate to not also loving your spouse.


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## NeverMore (Feb 24, 2013)

No, I don't think a cheater "truly' loves their spouse and still cheats on them. Love is not juts a feeling, it is an action. To behave so heinously, selfishly, and disrespectfully to a spouse by cheating on them, that is not love or loving behavior at all. I think cheaters love their spouses the best way they now how, but again, that's not saying much based on behavior, and is a crappy consolation.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

I don't think there's true, romantic, marriage-type love in a cheater. 

Frankly, a cheater loves nobody, not even him or herself. 

You must love yourself before you can love someone else. And if you don't even like yourself, you aren't going to give anything good to anyone else. You just become good at playing a game.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

You probably can, but who cares?
Will your spouse love you? That's the primary question, and whether you will care. If your spouse will not love you if you have an affair (even if you still love your spouse) and you will care if you lose your spouse's love, then I think it's best not to have the affair. Because then it's clear, you have no love for yourself (and your best interests.)


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

I think the answer to this is yes you can.

Marriage and love is so complex that there are so many variables that it's impossible to know for sure or say definitively. But if I had to guess I would say that a person can cheat and still love their spouse.

Doesn't mean it's right, just that it's possible.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Yes. It can happen. How did our pre-GrecoRoman ancestors handle polygyny? Do you think they only loved one of their wives? 

Of course, the difference here is that, depending on your vows, your husband probably promised to love only you, not you and his harem. 

Your husband sounds like a sociopath and probably has dark triad tendencies. Maybe that's why women come onto him.

There are probably more women.


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## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

You can "love" the person, or think you do, but you are not "in love" with them if you can cheat. That's just my personal view. When you are happy and satisfied you typically won't even be tempted by someone else. It's when things go lacking in whatever department that the door is opened for possibility...

To me, you can't possibly TRULY love or care about someone and still subject them to the pain and betrayal. Like someone else said, that is not loving behavior. Would you steal your mother's retirement fund, even though you "love" her? No, you wouldn't, because that would seriously harm her in many ways. You could only do this if you didn't care about her at all. Which is how I feel about the cheating. 

To me, you are saying that the risk of hurting and losing that person is worth it. Doesn't sound like love to me.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Yes, think I some people can love the person they cheat on. 

One of the most difficult realizations I ever had as my marriage was ending was not that my husband didn't love me, but that he absolutely did. His behavior, the type of marriage we had, the lies, the betrayals, the gaslighting, the emotional manipulation - all of that was what love looked like to him. For him, love did not preclude serial cheating.


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## Granny7 (Feb 2, 2013)

Rowan said:


> Yes, I some people can love the person they cheat on.
> 
> One of the most difficult realizations I ever had as my marriage was ending was not that my husband didn't love me, but that he absolutely did. His behavior, the type of marriage we had, the lies, the betrayals, the gaslighting, the emotional manipulation - all of that was what love looked like to him. For him, love did not preclude serial cheating.


Rowan,
I hear you. I know my H loves me now, but I almost feel that it's out of desperation as he doesn't want to loose me and be alone at 70 yrs. of age. I just can't get over everything he did, his lack of remorse both after the A and for the next 20 yrs. with his control factors, drinking to much and not treating me special, especially after what he did to me. I loved him so much, but I think that I've been through so much that he has killed the love that I had left and I'm to tired to even deal with it anymore. He did the one thing that I swore I would never stay in a marriage for, especially since I had put up with so many other behaviors that I didn't approve of. 

Thanks for your opinion,
Granny7


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

If that's 'love", I'll pass, thanks.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

I think a completely separate question is whether you can be IN LOVE with someone while cheating on them. 

Love? Yes.

In love? No.

Hence all the ILYBINILWY speeches we hear about on this forum.


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

Can you still love your spouse but get crabby with him/her? Or full out lose your temper with him/her? How about when you have a big fight with him/her? Not very "loving" but you do it anyway.

I think it depends on the spouse who has the affair. Some actually don't love us, and have what amounts to an exit affair, so those marriages are pretty much done for anyway. Some DO love us, but still have an affair - just like loving us but fighting with us, it's possible to love but do things that will hurt the one you love.

I do agree, to some extent, with doubletrouble, in terms of people having affairs and loving themselves - I suspect when they're in the middle of it, they don't love themselves very much. And when one doesn't love oneself very much, one IS going to be very limited in the ability to give love. Not that I think the ability is gone, but I do think very limited.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

"Love" is such a subjective term...it's kind of semantics. But how it boils down for me is this: If in fact the WS does "love" the BS, it's a very unhealthy, very sick, very dysfunctional love, if love at all.

To me, loyalty and honesty are a *huge* part of the "love" equation, and neither of those exist in infidelity.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I posted a lot on your original thread about a year ago because your situation was somewhat similar to my own. I was then ending a 45 year marriage -- with considerable opposition from my family and friends. I remember saying to you that the polygraph you were scheduling wouldn't necessarily give you closure regarding his affair and it sounds as if it hasn't. I'm very sorry. 

People cheat because they think they can get away with it. That's what it comes down to. We will never make sense of it because it's not what we would do. We thought they were one person but they were another. Unfortunately. 

In my case, I decided that getting out was worth whatever price I had to pay because I wanted the opportunity to be happy for what remained of my life. And I haven't regretted it for a moment. But it wasn't easy getting here. Walking away from a very long marriage is not something most people do. I know a woman who ended her 60 year marriage and, like me, her only regret is not doing it sooner. But it's not for everyone.


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## TheFlood117 (Mar 24, 2013)

They think they love you. And they might perceive that they do- this is called compartmentalization and deflection, common behavior traits among cheaters. 

But they do not love you the way a spouse, partner, lover and mate should. 

Some Betrayed Spouses, are just happy and pleased to get "crumbs from the table" so to speak. I just don't get it. 

Can you "love" someone and cheat and betray them. Put their physical, mental, emotional and financial health at risk. All the while feeding into your selfish needs... 

NO. NO. NO. 

That is not love. It is abuse and cruel. And having an affair is a character flaw. 

And you cannot change character. You either have it. Or you don't.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Openminded said:


> People cheat because they think they can get away with it. That's what it comes down to. We will never make sense of it because it's not what we would do. We thought they were one person but they were another. Unfortunately.


:iagree: QFT

When I confronted my fWW about her affair, she said she never told me because she didn't want to hurt my feelings. 

What?????

She thought she'd gotten away with it. I never let it go. I still haven't, even though I sure would love to. I'd love to have a relationship that was honest, carefree, open, trusting, loving and long-lasting. 

I feel at this point in my life I'll never realize that feeling. I wanted all of them at the same time. I get some of them some of the time.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

G7 there are so many factors and premises in your questions that a single yes or no is not enough, there was a time when I saw infidelity as White and black, cheaters and OM/OW under any circumstances were despicables, not worth of a second chance or thougth, they didn't deserve pity or consideration, my view of that has changed, I still think that most cases are not worth a second chance but now I can see grays matices in the equations.

firts of all, I think that a human can really just love one person but a human can be infatuated with another person and at the same time love his/her spouse,

There are some users here that have had that problem with their spousse that can't differiantiate between one and other, as the user "hard_to_dettach" I always thought that his wife loved him but she was missguided under the wrong idea that loving one person had to be like Disney love were 2 persons live permanently infatuated with each other which is impossible.

let my quote one post that I gave him sometime ago:



manticore said:


> you know, reading your thread is obvious that your wife confuses, being infatuated and true love, she seeks the high of the hormones thinking that is love,* i do believe that she loves you*, she don't understand the difference between love and infatuation, she believes the hollywood crap that if you love someone you live in bliss the rest of your life, she makes me remember the article i am about to quote:
> 
> _
> "Infatuation describes the intense range of feelings present at the beginning of most relationships; sweaty palms, rapidly beating heart, butterflies in the stomach. The world is a better, more beautiful place because object of your affection is with you. Every time you touch is thrilling, you remember every conversation, and your thoughts revolve around them. In more common terms, this is a crush. Crushes are a very real, normal part of human life. Everyone experiences at least one crush at some point or another in their lives.
> ...


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

TheFlood117 said:


> They think they love you. And they might perceive that they do- this is called compartmentalization and deflection, common behavior traits among cheaters.
> 
> But they do not love you the way a spouse, partner, lover and mate should.
> 
> ...


Yup, love is a combination of feelings and actions that enhance that mutual feeling with the one you love.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

In your case it seems that your husband was infatuated with this new source of attention and ego bost he was receiving, but he also could keep loving you while he was compartmentalizating 

Now, what I am about to say may sound like I am defending him or minimazing his affair, which is not the case, I know that EAs are many times (if not always) as hurfult as PAs because seeing your life partner professing love to another is devastating, for the ego and selfsttem and make you wonder if evertyhing what he said during and before that times were lies.

but there is a particular factor that calls my attention here, EAs normally just stay as such if there is long distance between affair partners (and even like this they arrange affair meetings to consumate the affair), otherwise they become EAs/PAs (full blown affairs) within months, so he the fact that they never took that step means that at some point they were aware that was fantazy and that is why none of they pressured take that last step to become a full blown affair (which is normally Sought by the male)


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

there are other subjects you metioned that I would like to comment about, like the alcohol thing, or how you betray your morals and values (which I did) not exactly like your husband as I have never been married but still, I did and what I criticized and despissed so much, but I am Little short in time right now


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

> Can You Still Love Your Spouse & Have & Affair?


Can you imagine a woman bouncing up and down on another man's stick saying to herself, "boy I really love my husband" ?

Or a man pumping away at another woman doggie style just about ready to blow his load saying, "my wife is the best and I love her so much"??


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

vellocet said:


> Can you imagine a woman bouncing up and down on another man's stick saying to herself, "boy I really love my husband" ?
> 
> Or a man pumping away at another woman doggie style just about ready to blow his load saying, "my wife is the best and I love her so much"??


I have to agree. I cant see how you can love them, if you can do the worst thing ever, and in my book cheating is the worst of the worst.

I cant see how you can still claim to still love them, and sleep with another.... Must be a funny kind of love then.

You cant love them, and lay down with someone else, no matter how you try to rationalize it.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Gabriel said:


> I think a completely separate question is whether you can be IN LOVE with someone while cheating on them.
> 
> Love? Yes.
> 
> ...


And that's why ancient Greeks had several words for our "love."

Eros is "in love" or better yet "in heat."


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

Short answer: Yes

Long answer:

As humans we are a lot more complicated than black and white (read: love and not love). 

One of the common missing ingredients in this equation is the individual's own capacity for coping with problems as they arise. Life issues (crappy structure / boundaries, various types of abuse, lack of care as a child, etc) all play into one's inability to cope with things. It is human nature to take the path of least resistance. For the coward, that means the path to infidelity. It is easy to climb into bed with someone else instead of digging to the painful truth as to how you got there. It is easier to allow someone to stroke your ego and tell you how fantastic you are instead of realizing that you may have toxic tendencies. 

So many of the "no" responders need remember that compartmentalization and rationalization play a huge role in the WS's ability to deal with the betrayal that they are doing. They are already mentally effed up -- so it isn't hard for them to tuck away their guilt into their pocket after screwing the AP. They convince themselves that they deserve things, and I think many of them think they either won't get caught, or things are beyond broken anyway. Their mind doesn't work the same way that yours does. They are the ones that are broken. 

I think sometimes they love you, and sometimes they don't. Sometimes it is an exit affair or they don't want to face the changes that divorce mandates. (no love) Sometimes they just can't face their internal demons / marital problems, so they follow the path towards instant gratification... ([destructive] love).

People and their emotional problems come in as many different colors as people do.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> Yes, you can love your spouse and have an affair. You risk hurting them if they find out, of course, and damaging or destroying the relationship. But, that does not mean you don't love them.
> 
> Look at it from the perspective of an open marriage. Either or both can have sex with other people, yet still be deeply in love, and care about each other, etc. The primary difference is that the "affair" in this case is completely open and consensual, so there is no cheating, no lying, no emotional distress or relationship damage. In cheating, you risk the harm and damage, probably out of selfishness, but that does not equate to not also loving your spouse.


Am not picking on you, it is just that your first paragraph assesses the situation very succinctly, but based on that my conclusion would be counter to yours. I think it makes more sense to say if I love someone, then I will NOT risk hurting them in such a crushing way. And I will NOT risk destroying my relationship with them. If I do then, at minimum I do not love my spouse in a way that she would consider sufficient. I'd feel the same way.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

Pepper123 said:


> Short answer: Yes
> 
> Long answer:
> 
> ...


Yes but I think it makes more sense to consider those people lacking the capacity to love, in the same way they lack the other capabilities you mention. I think love, in the sense of a marriage, means that neither meanness nor carelessness nor immaturity nor any other personal issue will be sufficient to prevent me from protecting my partner or my marriage from the enormous fallout from infidelity.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

*Re: Re: Can You Still Love Your Spouse & Have & Affair?*



nuclearnightmare said:


> Yes but I think it makes more sense to consider those people lacking the capacity to love, in the same way they lack the other capabilities you mention. I think love, in the sense of a marriage, means that neither meanness nor carelessness nor immaturity nor any other personal issue will be sufficient to prevent me from protecting my partner or my marriage from the enormous fallout from infidelity.


While I understand your argument, to me it is like when people would tell me during time I've been depressed to just "be happy." At that moment in my life I wasn't capable of that, no matter how much I wanted it.


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## Loveisnotenough (Jan 10, 2014)

Granny7, you've answered your own question: 

"I was asked to have an A once with one of the people at a National Conference, he was good looking, knew him well and even a few yrs. younger than me. I just smiled, told him, "No Thank you, I'm happily married and just smiled." He understood and we continued to be friends."

THAT is the reaction of someone who is both in love and loves their spouse. You have eyes nor desire for anyone else. 

A cheater on the other hand not only jumps at the occasion to cheat, knowing full well it would devastate their spouse and cause unmeasurable harm to their marriage, they very often actively look for affair partners using online dating sites and such. 

How can anyone be dumb enough to mistake their WS's tears and words of panic on Dday for love? They beg you for another chance not because they love you so much -- they are scared of losing their live-in cook, nanny, cleaning lady or their trusted meal ticket and ATM. 

The heart of all confusion in this topic is the meaning of the word love. When a cheater says they love you, what they really mean is that they've grown ATTACHED to you.. 

It's not love, but attachment. Their sadness and unwillingness to let you go is comparable to the way you would feel having to get rid of a box of childhood toys that were dear to you. It hurts, it's scary, you wish you didn't have to let go, you wish you could keep them just because it feels better to know they're still there somewhere in your garage, but once they are in the trash and the garbagemen have picked them up for good... you get over it.

That's how cheaters feel about their BS. Some will never admit it, some will refuse to acknowledge it, but cheaters are incapable of the love you and I feel.


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## Granny7 (Feb 2, 2013)

Loveisnotenough said:


> Granny7, you've answered your own question:
> 
> Hi Loveisnotenough,
> 
> ...


<< I agree with you, my H isn't good at showing unconditional love, with me or our 3 children. His needs have always come first, but he has gotten a little better at it. I told him today, as I told him back then, "I would have rather have lost a limb, then to have had him betray me." That's how great the pain has been for me, words can't describe what I've been through. I do blame myself for staying, however, after finally finding out the truth after 4 D-days. I should have left him then. But 6 weeks after the first D-day, I had stage 3 Melanoma and 300 stitches and was laid up for 3 months. 18 months after going through 4 D-days, I had a total Hysterectomy. Tried to take my life twice in the first 2 yrs. after the first D-day as I was so depressed and had panic attacks and couldn't leave the house. The devastation that I suffered and the hurt, well everyone on here knows what I am talking about. >>

Thanks for your insight and taking time to give me your feelings on this mess. He basically wants me to give him another chance and he says that I will like the new person. Just don't know if I have anything left in me. I just want to disappear somewhere and rest.

Thanks, Granny7


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## Loveisnotenough (Jan 10, 2014)

Granny7 said:


> << I agree with you, my H isn't good at showing unconditional love, with me or our 3 children. His needs have always come first, but he has gotten a little better at it. I told him today, as I told him back then, "I would have rather have lost a limb, then to have had him betray me." That's how great the pain has been for me, words can't describe what I've been through. I do blame myself for staying, however, after finally finding out the truth after 4 D-days. I should have left him then. But 6 weeks after the first D-day, I had stage 3 Melanoma and 300 stitches and was laid up for 3 months. 18 months after going through 4 D-days, I had a total Hysterectomy. Tried to take my life twice in the first 2 yrs. after the first D-day as I was so depressed and had panic attacks and couldn't leave the house. The devastation that I suffered and the hurt, well everyone on here knows what I am talking about. >>
> 
> Thanks for your insight and taking time to give me your feelings on this mess. He basically wants me to give him another chance and he says that I will like the new person. Just don't know if I have anything left in me. I just want to disappear somewhere and rest.
> 
> Thanks, Granny7


I am terribly sorry to hear that Granny... May God be with you to get through this sad chapter of your life and find the love, peace, happiness and joy you need and deserve. 

I've reread my post and I realize it might have come off a little harsh. My intention was to be brutally honest on a topic that could save many BS a lot of time spent trying to figure out the "why".

Remember that your husband's inability to love the way you do does not reflect on your value as a woman, wife and mother. It is HIM who is broken and emotionally stunted. 

I always say that cheaters are cowards. Scared little cowards, for if they had strength, they would leave a relationship before starting another. 

It takes a lot of courage to love truly, deeply, unconditionally. To give your heart knowing you can get hurt takes faith and strength. Cheaters have neither. They take your love but keep you at a safe distance, because they know their fragile ego wouldn't survive real heartbreak.

So please, don't let his hurtful words and actions get to you. You are a good person. You've always loved him and respected him. He threw it all away. You can leave him knowing you did everything right and choose to focus on yourself to heal and distance yourself from his negativity.

If during your time apart, he consistently shows you through actions that he is worthy of your forgiveness and treats you with the love and respect you deserve, then maybe there is indeed hope that he can change.

Put your needs first for a change, take the time you need to heal.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You say that you'd like to go off somewhere and rest. Is that impossible? Can you do that and let him take the lead completely on his own 'tranformation'? Suffering and trying to squeeze blood out of a turnip is truly exhausting, physically, emotionally, mentally - everything. Why not give yourself a rest? Stop being vigilant. Get away from him for a while and take a break from the pain.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Granny7 said:


> ... He basically wants me to give him another chance and he says that I will like the new person.


Very questionable if that will ever be truely remorseful.
Let him post here, and see what he is really made of.



> Just don't know if I have anything left in me. I just want to disappear somewhere and rest.


You need to heal first. It looks like you finally reached a level of insight in your life. The chaos is vast, you need this 'Eat, Pray, Love' thing now. If you are restored, then MAYBE you wil want to hear his excuses, but I think the picture is clear.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

Does he!! go with no?

How do you know someone loves you? They act like it.

And they put your wants and desires above thiers.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

In a marriage, there is no unconditional love. No such thing, by definition. 

If love were unconditional, there would be no need for vows, saying we'll forsake all others, etc etc. So there are conditions. Boundaries. Needs. 

With true love you respect these things naturally. You _want _to. 

But with infidelity, I'm thinking there's a reason that's the only thing the Bible mentions as a reason to leave a marriage. All other things can be dealt with in some manner. But cheating is the ultimate sin against someone else's heart, which they gave to you freely and willingly, hopefully, and for the rest of their life. 

Our life is all we truly "own" on this planet, and we give that to our spouse because it's our most precious, personal possession. Because we love them, we want to give that to them. 

They kill a huge part of us when they cheat. It's something that may be forgiven, but surely never forgotten, and forever stains the relationship.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

No. Love is an action.


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

Yes it's possible to love your spouse and start an affair. Love is an emotional state that arises from neural chemistry in your brain. This neural chemistry controls the attachment you feel towards others and can happen for one or more people at the same time. See my link on Fog v. Love below for a description of its basis.

An affair can start and feelings develop even while being in love with your spouse. However at some point as the affair accelerates and the attachment deepens they will notice these feelings. If an opportunity for a PA presents itself they might take it because they don't fully realize it until afterwards. But otherwise at some point the person will know they are crossing lines. The bond with there AP will help enable them to "justify" it in some form of denial. So an affair may start this way but at some point they know they are hurting you.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Yes. Very possible. It's call compartmentalisation.

The problem is that when the BS finds out, the WS can have a mental breakdown when their two worlds collide.

Suicide attempts are not uncommon at that point.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

*Re: Re: Can You Still Love Your Spouse & Have & Affair?*



Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> No. Love is an action.


One of my favorite phrases ever...

That said, just because a word is a verb doesn't mean a person has the appropriate skills to do it. Ie. "Reading" is also a verb but just because someone can learn how, doesn't mean they possess the proper skills to complete it.


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## Granny7 (Feb 2, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> You say that you'd like to go off somewhere and rest. Is that impossible? Can you do that and let him take the lead completely on his own 'tranformation'? Suffering and trying to squeeze blood out of a turnip is truly exhausting, physically, emotionally, mentally - everything. Why not give yourself a rest? Stop being vigilant. Get away from him for a while and take a break from the pain.


alte dame,
I'm going to take a break, I have to as I can't deal with the stress and being on the fence any longer. My health has suffered because of all of this. I know you have followed me, so you are very much aware of it. He has improved a lot, hasn't drank in over 2 yrs., still doesn't want to discuss it, same old story. The main reason that I haven't left right now or after Christmas, is because my twin grandson's are taking the Bar around the 25th. of February. They are studying so hard and they need to pass it as they both have jobs in Attorneys offices. They need them to pass as they need them to practice law. They can't do that until the bar is passed. They've put 7 yrs. of school into this profession and if I separated from my CH right now they would be devastated. It could cause them to not pass this 2 day, 7 hr. exam. It's not fair to them at all. So after they take it, if their is not a drastic change in him making me understand why he was able to forget me and focus on her than I will separate and I've already spoken to him about this, so he knows.

Thanks for your kind words,

Blessings, Granny7


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## Granny7 (Feb 2, 2013)

5Creed said:


> Yes; I do believe that you can still love your spouse but also cheat on them at the same time. With my husband, I feel it was purely selfishness on his part. He liked his ego stroked by her, and she made him feel "special." They aren't thinking with their head when they get all this attention and it trumps what they have at home.
> 
> I can feel in your post how hurt you are by his actions. There is nothing more devastating than being betrayed like this. My husband also told me he would NEVER cheat and I believed it. Given the right circumstances and the state of our marriage, it happened.


5Creed,
Sorry that you had to go through this painful experience also. I hear all the things you are saying, but I still feel like if it's true love from both partner's hearts and they are committed to the marriage, they will turns down an A and sure won't go looking for one. My H said the same thing you did, the excitement, feeling young again. My CH never said that he wouldn't cheat, we just discussed other friends that had and he sure knew how I felt. I felt we had a very good marriage, except that he was selfish and drank to much at parties. He was also controlling, but we aren't all perfect in our marriages. But I always felt that he loved me, like I loved him. Our times together were mostly good, enjoyed the same things, etc. I guess I was wrong about him though. He was capable of doing the one thing that I never thought he would do and he might as well have killed me, because that's what the A did. Yes, I forgave him years ago, but you never forget and in my case a major change of events brought it all back. But I'm off the subject again. I just feel so tired and mixed up inside. I've asked the question and have gotten some great insight from everyone who has answered my post. I've learned and now just got to put a plan into action, if nothing else, get away by myself for a while and think what I want to do with my life.


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## Granny7 (Feb 2, 2013)

Hi LongWalk,



LongWalk said:


> Men are not always emotionally involved in sex, but some emotions always come into play, even if the intention is to leave them out. But for sure when a couple is really in love they don't have such a great need to go outside the marriage. Emotional neglect is not the only reason for affairs. Women can be curious about sex, too.
> 
> <<I feel that my CH had emotions for her and she did for him. I'll never know for sure how far they went in sex, even if the last lie detector test said they didn't. I still believe in his heart he wanted to and maybe he couldn't perform out of guilt or liquor, I'll never know for sure and that kills me. I never expected him to go outside the marriage as I thought our love was so strong, even with his flaws, basically the selfish one. He sure wasn't neglected by me, in fact, I probably did to much for him and that added to him expecting whatever he wanted. He never learned the feeling, even as a child, how good it feels to give back. He even told me and so did she, that they both were in it for a ego trip and the fun and excitement of it. How both of them never thought of the ring on their finger is still beyond me. I had always said, "If your going to have an A have the decency to get a divorce first.">>
> 
> ...


<< No, I'm not satisfied today. It's been a horrible 2 yrs. of arguing and fighting about his A. because it was all brought back to me and I can't forget it. I am not sure if anything he does now is going to help me want to live with him, smile, love him again and stay in the marriage. But it's up to him if he wants this to work. I've done all the work, both 25 yrs. ago and even these past 2 yrs. to try and get answers to my questions. Now, I've been through so much hell, I don't know if I want the marriage anymore. >>>


I hope that answered your questions.
Thanks, Granny7


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## Granny7 (Feb 2, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> Boundaries in marriage, would be something to think about.
> 
> Infatuation IS love, but at the first stages, and it is difficult to control for those who do not have strong boundaries.
> 
> ...


2ntnuf,

No, He never thought about what he was doing, so obviously he didn't have any boundaries like I thought he had. He didn't even think about her being married. He just did what he wanted, thinking he could cover his tracks and I would never find out. If I had known cheating signs back then, I would have seen them. In regards to love, I seriously don't think he knows what deep love is in a marriage. The kind that you put your partner first. He never did, it was about his needs first and I fulfilled them because I loved him.

I think that he was so taken by another women flirting with him and she was younger, that it really boosted his ego enough that he only thought about what it might be like with someone different. He didn't think about me, because if he had he wouldn't have done what he did.

Yes, it still hurts and it's been over 25 yrs. I just wish I would lose my memory and then I wouldn't be able to think about it so much.

Thanks for your insight.

Granny7


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## Granny7 (Feb 2, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> Yes, you can love your spouse and have an affair. You risk hurting them if they find out, of course, and damaging or destroying the relationship. But, that does not mean you don't love them.
> 
> Look at it from the perspective of an open marriage. Either or both can have sex with other people, yet still be deeply in love, and care about each other, etc. The primary difference is that the "affair" in this case is completely open and consensual, so there is no cheating, no lying, no emotional distress or relationship damage. In cheating, you risk the harm and damage, probably out of selfishness, but that does not equate to not also loving your spouse.


Married but happy,
I hear you, but if your not in a relationship where it's okay to share partners, then your CS knows about this. So, if he loves you and cheating, he can still get caught and then you get hurt. He knows he's taking this chance, so how can he love you if he doesn't want to hurt you?

Granny7


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## adriana (Dec 21, 2013)

Can you still love your spouse and have an affir? 

But of course. My husband is classic example of it. I'm the love of his life, absolutely no question about that, but it still didn't stop him from having "recrational" sex with his married co-worker twice a week behind my back.


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## Granny7 (Feb 2, 2013)

adrina,

My heart goes out to you. What have you done about it and when did this happen? I take it that you were being sarcastic??

I seriously meant my question, because if my CH has said it once, he's said it 50 times this past yr. during our many arguments or discussions. I don't believe him and never will. You have to know what the word or verb means, as someone wisely put it, to truly love someone.

I hope things get better for you.

Granny7


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## Granny7 (Feb 2, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> I know it was a long time ago, but I'm guessing it feels like it happened yesterday. I'm going to post a few things that I think are worth a look at.
> 
> 
> This site has a few good books.
> ...


2ntnuf,
If your referring to my CS A being a long time ago, yes it was 25 yrs. ago. If you read my post you will understand why it all came back to me. I also have my original post when I first found this great and helpful sight, not that you want to be on here. It's the last place I ever expected to be. It has consumed my life after it all came back for about 2 yrs. Before that, starting 5 yrs. ago, he was having his issues, not A's that were affecting us greatly. Then since I've been trying to gain insight into what caused it, these past 2 yrs. our life has been hell. He claims to not remember hardly anything, doesn't want to talk about it, etc. We've both been to marriage counseling, but if he keeps saying he has no answer or doesn't remember, nothing can be resolved. I've been to my own separate one also, several in fact and haven't found one that I click with. Been on meds, but I don't think they are the right one's for depression, PTSD & Anxiety. Add back pain, heart condition into that mix and a blockage in my stomach all in the past 4 months and it has taken it's toll on me. Plus my daughters are now on their Dad's side and think it should have never been brought up and that I have responsible for making their Dad's life miserable. I shouldn't be bringing up something that happened 25 yrs. ago and they tell me that it's going to affect the whole family, which they are already doing. Keeping Grandchildren away from us and also never calling. 

Anyway, you are so kind to be trying to help me. I will check into the books and I'm sure that some of them will help. I have a glimmer of hope, but I'm still scared that he did more than just sleep in bed with her and if he did, that would kill me and I would never be able to handle that. It's hard enough that he was even able to get in bed with another women, considering we have never been with anyone else. 

Thanks for listening and also for your help. I can see why you are a forum supporter.
Granny7

I clicked on Psych Central first and you'll never guess what happened. The date of the article was written on Nov. 6, 2004. The D-day was Nov. 6th.


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## adriana (Dec 21, 2013)

Granny7 said:


> adrina,
> 
> My heart goes out to you. What have you done about it and when did this happen? I take it that you were being sarcastic??
> 
> ...



Granny7, you are right that I was a bit sarcastic but everything I said is still true. I'm the love of his life and the wife he always wanted. 

But, like I said before, it didn't stop him from cheating on me when the opportunity presented itself when he was on business trip. Later it led to almost 3-month long PA. Other than his wayward side he was a great husband. He truly was. And we were great together. 

What I did about it? He was on business trip when I discovered his affair six weeks ago. For me infidelity is a deal breaker. Once it happens it taints everything. The memories become tainted, and even things that haven't happened yet. I don't have in me what it takes to reconcile so I moved out and filed for a divorce. I live with my parents now and he is trying to drink himself to death. He was a light social drinker before I moved out. 

Thank you for your kind words, I will be fine, and good luck to you. I really mean it. 

Adriana


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

What does it say about him if you are the love of his life, but he cheated?

His version of love is scary. And i hope no one ever loves me that way.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

Sorry OP your story has many elements not just a affair that makes it sad ;( my take on this is never a popular one, but here it goes.

Very few relationships and marriages are really 100% honest! Do husbands go home to their spouses and say "Man, honey what a great day today! I looked at some crazy porn with two 20 something coeds riding this huge [email protected] it was so hot. Then Bob and I couldn't stop joking about what we would do with the new HR woman the company just hired.......wooooo if only I was 30 and not 55!!" 

I say this to say that people do things everyday that if shared with their spouse would be hurtful. I do believe a affair is on another level, but do not believe it means the cheater does not or did not love their betrayed spouse. 

They are just making a horrible decision!! When a teenager or young adult does horrible things that they know would infuriate their parents does that mean they don't love their parents? Of course not, but it does mean they are making bad choices.

Bad selfish choices yes............without love usually no imo!


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

adriana said:


> Granny7, you are right that I was a bit sarcastic but everything I said is still true. I'm the love of his life and the wife he always wanted.
> 
> But, like I said before, it didn't stop him from cheating on me when the opportunity presented itself when he was on business trip. Later it led to almost 3-month long PA. Other than his wayward side he was a great husband. He truly was. And we were great together.





illwill said:


> What does it say about him if you are the love of his life, but he cheated?
> 
> His version of love is scary. And i hope no one ever loves me that way.


As I said before, some cheaters do love their spouses. But it doesn't make them not cheat. The two things are not mutually exclusive to them. They can love their spouse and still cheat, even cheat routinely. For them, asking if they can love their spouse and still cheat is like asking if you can love your dog and still eat blueberry muffins. The two concepts do not intersect in any meaningful way. Because their love for their spouse is completely different, separate entirely, from the infidelity. Those two spheres of their lives do not, in any way, overlap. 

I think that level of compartmentalization is somewhat rare, but there are people capable of it. And I also think it's hard for people who aren't capable of that level of compartmentalization to really comprehend it. I know it took me a long time to wrap my head around it, even though my now-ex-husband was that way.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

Many of the posts on this thread seem almost in denial, in the sense that they seem to be almost bending over backwards to try and make concepts like compartmentalization, lack of empathy, and thoughtless ness consistent with love. As if a person's actions are not indicative of their attitudes. What am I missing?


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

To the original question. 

I could not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## trendy44 (Jan 17, 2014)

If you love your wife or husband you don't mess around with OM or OW. Just like a person who loves their child doesn't spend their time coloring pictures with the neighbor kid while their own child cries for attention. End of Story.


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## Granny7 (Feb 2, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> I know it was a long time ago, but I'm guessing it feels like it happened yesterday. I'm going to post a few things that I think are worth a look at.
> 
> 
> This site has a few good books.
> ...


2ntnuf,
One thing that I wanted to mention and maybe enough wasn't said about it in the beginning of my post. I can get it through my head that a person can go to a ****tail party with a group of maybe 50 people, the OW sits down next to him at a group table and starts to come on to him. He likes it, enjoy's her undivided attention (even though he was given so much at home) dances with her, goes back the next night at the ****tail party and does the same thing. You know he had to get vibes of her flirting with him. He was drinking also, had to love the dancing as he loves to show off and dance. Weekend's over, goes home and a week or two later, he doesn't remember, he call's the satellite office and ask's her to lunch, which he thinks she might have mentioned that maybe they could get together for lunch sometime???? Without much thought given to his marriage, they don't work together, he call's her and they do just that and the A begins. Now why would a man who claims to love his wife (she's married also and he knows it) totally forget the little wife at home who adores him and just go for it? Till the day I die, I'll never understand how a person cheats if he is getting all his needs met at home and as I thought, had a good marriage? SOMEONE, PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME, WHY THROW IT ALL AWAY, UNLESS YOU WANT TO GET OUT OF YOUR MARRIAGE? I know that he didn't want to do that and he has said so, he just wanted to have fun. Of course, he could have taken me dancing, we both love to dance. End of story!
Granny7


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## Granny7 (Feb 2, 2013)

trendy44 said:


> If you love your wife or husband you don't mess around with OM or OW. Just like a person who loves their child doesn't spend their time coloring pictures with the neighbor kid while their own child cries for attention. End of Story.


Trendy44,
What you said is so true. Look how many lives were messed up with what he did. Mine, ours, our children, especially or 14 yrs. old daughter. The OWH, their two little girls as he divorced his wife after he had given her several chances to stop the A. Not sure why she was in one, other than she told me that she enjoyed being with him, they had fun together and she couldn't always do things like that with her H. I've met him and he was a nice person. She just wanted someone better and seemed to get bored easily.

Our daughter lost her Father at 14 due to his lack of attention that he usually gave her. She then was seeking the attention of other boys and they were not the so nice ones. She ran away from home twice and finally at 16 moved in with her boyfriend. Now, he's responsible for all this. He total change of life, no college until in her 30's, because she got married early. We don't know what happened to the CWH's children? You know they were hurt and yet she didn't care, her selfish needs were met just like his was. So no good came from any of this. Yes, I forgave and stayed another 25 yrs. before it all fell apart again, but the specialness that we shared, pet names, certain places were never to be again. I still loved him back then, but he wasn't special to me like he was before the A.

Thanks for your response to my post.
Granny7


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## Granny7 (Feb 2, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> Granny7's age, the spouses age, her family's opinion, the length of time she accepted the affair, the fact that I don't know how a seventy year old woman will make it on her own, the fact that it will rip her family completely apart and it seems even her children are on the same page as their father.
> 
> Frankly, I'm afraid for Granny7. I don't want her to be alone. I know what it's like. It isn't fun. That's not to say it's impossible for her to find someone else. My own mother remarried at the age of seventy. It wasn't a very happy marriage, but it was a marriage. My father had passed away and was gone for a few years.
> 
> ...


2ntnuf, 
I'll answer your other post tomorrow as I am wore out tonight about your concern for me. It's been an arguing, rough day and I'm physically and emotionally exhausted.

Granny7


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## mtpromises (May 27, 2013)

When I finally cheated I was to a point where loving my husband was optional. I felt like I could love him if I wanted to, but by then I didn't want to. Now we've been separated for four months and going through the divorce process for three and I can say all emotions and feelings are gone.


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## Loveisnotenough (Jan 10, 2014)

2ntnuf said:


> Granny7's age, the spouses age, her family's opinion, the length of time she accepted the affair, the fact that I don't know how a seventy year old woman will make it on her own, the fact that it will rip her family completely apart and it seems even her children are on the same page as their father.
> 
> Frankly, I'm afraid for Granny7. I don't want her to be alone. I know what it's like. It isn't fun. That's not to say it's impossible for her to find someone else. My own mother remarried at the age of seventy. It wasn't a very happy marriage, but it was a marriage. My father had passed away and was gone for a few years.
> 
> ...


Um, how about being brave enough to be complete on your own? Maybe once you get more in touch with the spiritual side of life and realize you can and will be ok on your own, true love will find you? 

Many people are so afraid of being alone for once in their life that they're willing to put up with a cheater. They say we settle for the love we think we deserve... Cheating is emotional abuse, and that's not love, don't kid yourself. Codependency is not love either. Love is being able to let go and being happy for one another.

Cheaters use the word love very loosely and yes, some BS bend over backwards to believe their WS truly loves them, but the truth is there is no real love without intimacy and that requires complete honesty and mutual respect. A cheater might have loved their BS in the past, but the minute they start having and hiding an inappropriate relationship with someone else, it is undeniable that they've checked out and no longer love their spouse in the way he/she wants to be loved: exclusively. That's my $0.02.


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## SlyGuy (Jan 14, 2014)

Granny7 said:


> CAN YOU LOVE YOUR SPOUSE ... AND LOVE ANOTHER WOMAN?


in your case "no".
in my case "yes".

It depends if the wife deserves it or not.
If most husbands get the attention at home they deserve then they usually won't even be tempted to have an affair.. .and remain loyal.


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## Loveisnotenough (Jan 10, 2014)

2ntnuf said:


> I just can't deny this. When I read what I posted, I thought, "I must have been in a bad place that day. It's a battle for me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's not easy admitting those things and it takes strength to break free of the past. I'm glad you're able to recognize that you need to work on yourself, we all do. It's important to learn to be happy and complete on our own, especially after a betrayal. Love yourself, be good to yourself, improve yourself. Then you will believe in your value and choose your next partner accordingly. A good woman would never choose to cheat as a response to "emotional abuse" or any other issue in the marriage. Cheating is the most cowardly, sneaky, disrespectful thing to do to someone who puts their full trust in you. That says a lot about your ex-wives' character. Don't be hard on yourself, you deserve a loyal woman... but until you find her, know that you can be happy on your own.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

Rowan said:


> As I said before, some cheaters do love their spouses. But it doesn't make them not cheat. The two things are not mutually exclusive to them. They can love their spouse and still cheat, even cheat routinely. For them, asking if they can love their spouse and still cheat is like asking if you can love your dog and still eat blueberry muffins. The two concepts do not intersect in any meaningful way. Because their love for their spouse is completely different, separate entirely, from the infidelity. Those two spheres of their lives do not, in any way, overlap.
> 
> I think that level of compartmentalization is somewhat rare, but there are people capable of it. And I also think it's hard for people who aren't capable of that level of compartmentalization to really comprehend it. I know it took me a long time to wrap my head around it, even though my now-ex-husband was that way.


Except eating blueberries would not destroy your dog.


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## Granny7 (Feb 2, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> Thank you for this added information.
> 2ntnuf,
> Not sure how to do this quote thing or however you can answer right under what you have written, it's so much easier. Is there a place that tells you how to answer a post like you did?
> 
> ...


<<<I need the counselor to guide me. I need to decide if I want to be with a man who has mistreated me, cheated on me and shown no empathy, remorse or respect. I also have to address the lack of feelings that I don't have for him. I don't respect him anymore and so many of these things are so important. Believe me, I've lost my temper, thrown things and blown up several times this past 2 yrs. I would say he's done it 3 times as much, but I'm trying not to because of my heart, back pain and health in general. This so called marriage isn't worth a stroke. I know that sounds cruel, but it's the truth.>>>

Thanks for all your help, sorry this is so long.

Granny7


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

There aren't always answers as to why a cheater cheats. They do it because they want to and because they can. That's the answer I had to accept with my ex-husband. He wouldn't discuss it. Not thirty years ago and not recently -- except to say that despite emails saying he loved her that he really didn't. He absolutely didn't want a divorce but this time I listened to what was best for me. 

I told him two years ago I was getting a divorce and I felt he should finally go to her. Did he? No. But he immediately met someone else and married her the moment the decree was signed. Was I surprised? No. I had to accept I would never know the truth about what happened. You never will either. You have to decide to stay or leaved based solely on you and what you want out of your life. That's what I had to do. 

I signed up last year in order to respond to your posts because I identified so strongly with your situation. It wasn't easy ending a 45 year marriage but I couldn't stay in it any longer. You are still in limbo. I know a woman who recently left a 60 year marriage. She's 85 and thriving. But divorce after a very long marriage is not for everyone. The question is whether it's right for you. 

Find a counselor who feels right for you. He or she can help you get out of limbo. One way or the other.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

Limbo is the worst place to be.

Start setting deadlines for yourself.

Present them here and we can help hold you to it.


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## Granny7 (Feb 2, 2013)

Openminded said:


> There aren't always answers as to why a cheater cheats. They do it because they want to and because they can. That's the answer I had to accept with my ex-husband. He wouldn't discuss it. Not thirty years ago and not recently -- except to say that despite emails saying he loved her that he really didn't. He absolutely didn't want a divorce but this time I listened to what was best for me.
> 
> I told him two years ago I was getting a divorce and I felt he should finally go to her. Did he? No. But he immediately met someone else and married her the moment the decree was signed. Was I surprised? No. I had to accept I would never know the truth about what happened. You never will either. You have to decide to stay or leaved based solely on you and what you want out of your life. That's what I had to do.
> 
> ...


Openminded, 
I remember your post and I'm glad that you are happier now. I need to go back and read them again. I'm going to find the right counselor like you suggested. That was my plan to look again. Thanks for your post and I'm so sorry you had to go through this type of pain. Bless you and I'm proud that you were able to do it. It is scary. 

Granny7


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## Granny7 (Feb 2, 2013)

illwill said:


> Limbo is the worst place to be.
> 
> Start setting deadlines for yourself.
> 
> Present them here and we can help hold you to it.


illwill, 
I will try and do that. I definitely need help from every source, because once I so something, I will be the black sheep in the family.
Granny7
1. Find a counselor.


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## adriana (Dec 21, 2013)

nuclearnightmare said:


> Many of the posts on this thread seem almost in denial, in the sense that they seem to be almost bending over backwards to try and make concepts like compartmentalization, lack of empathy, and thoughtless ness consistent with love. As if a person's actions are not indicative of their attitudes. What am I missing?



Nuclearnightmare, I don't know if you include me that group but I'm not deluding myself about anything. I agree with you that person's actions are indicative of their attitudes and that's exactly why I've never seriously entertain any idea of reconciling with my husband despite that he's been begging for a second chance. 

That being said, it is possible to love your spouse and still have an affair. My husband has proven it beyond any doubt.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

Maybe this is where "I love you but I'm not in love with you" comes into play. 

Maybe there is truth to it, instead of just being some crap the WS spews out when they are cheating.


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## Granny7 (Feb 2, 2013)

Pepper123 said:


> Maybe this is where "I love you but I'm not in love with you" comes into play.
> 
> Maybe there is truth to it, instead of just being some crap the WS spews out when they are cheating.


Pepper,
Are you referring to the CS or to the BS? I'm not sure after reading your post.

Granny7


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## Granny7 (Feb 2, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> Granny,
> 
> I know you're getting great advice from others and elsewhere. I'm still concerned, but must back away and watch. I hope you don't mind. I'll only post that I have your very best wishes at heart.
> 
> ...


<<Yes, your right, it's different for everybody.>>
Granny7


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## Granny7 (Feb 2, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> This is an interesting site.
> 
> To 2ntnuf,
> 
> ...


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## Granny7 (Feb 2, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> I'm going to drop off as many of these as I think might help you, Granny7. You can check them out at your convenience.
> 
> Forgiving and Trusting After an Affair
> 
> I think it's time to call it a night. I hope you get some rest. I'll see you later.


Thank you, I'll check them all out. I'm heading to bed also. Have a doctor's appt. today.

Granny7


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