# Love Must Be Tough



## Corpuswife

I've read the book by Dr. Dobson...which has helped me toughen up.

Those of you who have read the book or even if you haven't I need some advice.

I want to save the marriage. My husband is 100% sure about divorcing. I suggested, after doing many other things to preserve the marriage that separation rather than divorce might be the next step. He stated that he hadn't thought of it but would "think about it." I figure this will give him a reality check, which a divorce would do anyway.

Obviously, one way or another, we are going to separate. If we are living apart, how do I respond in a way to bring him back into my marriage? I understand in Dobson's book that "opening the gate" allows him to quit running away from the marriage to reevaluating his decision.

It is so difficult not to chase my husband. In the book, it mentions to not call him unless it's business related. In the book it says Freedom is the fuel of the romantic fire. 

Besides, leaving him alone....which is contrary to what I want to do...what else do you do in the meantime during a separation to preserve your marriage and appear attractive?


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## Amplexor

LMBT helped me a lot when I read it. Our natural instinct is to try and hold our spouse closer but in many cases that only drives them further away. I agree that in your case showing your confidence and readiness to move on is a good strategy. If he sees you are moving on with your life he may kindle a desire to work on the marriage. Let him know calmly that you want to give the marriage effort but if he is unwilling then you need to channel your resources in other directions. Let him know the “gate is open” but it won’t be that way for ever. In the meantime, do keep the communications in a business mode. 

What can you do in the meantime? If you feel a need to lose weight, work on that. Change your appearances. A new hair style or color. Upgrade your wardrobe. Go out with friends more. If he sees you changing and moving on he may second guess his decision. Good luck.


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## Dark Angel

I agree it might be a good path to follow.

But be careful

Sometimes you get more than you bargained for.

I did this for my wife instead of talking about my feelings and it led to me finding another man in my house. It may have only been a matter of days before they started hanging out as "friends" and it snowballed from there.

She played nice and hid everything. Even said she wasnt interested in anyone right now.

It can happen, but its a risk yo have to take sometimes.

You cant seem paranoid or needy either or it will just push him away.

There are probably just as many cases where it has worked as it hasnt. Just be prepared on the off chance it doesnt.

I hope that doesnt make you nervous, but it is a factor that must be considered.


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## Amplexor

:iagree:
Good point Dark. LMBT can backfire.


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## Dark Angel

Yeah, Im living proof of that.

Perhaps we just waited too long.

Ughhhh.


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## D8zed

Just a thought - you might consider reading "Divorce Remedy" as well. It might be available at your local library. Here's a summary of the 7 Step program:

http://www.marriageuncensored.com/assets/ShowDocuments/Summary of Michele's 7 Step Program.pdf


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## Corpuswife

Amplexor-i remember reading in a thread that you've had success in rekindling your marriage....Was it using these techniques?

Dark Angel-you are right about being prepared for the worst. I figure, he will leave anyway regardless. I've suggested the separation thing vs. divorce. I figure some time alone may have him reevaluate things. However, there are no guarantees.

Dazed-These are great tips. However, my husband is past this phase as he done working on the marriage. I can't do it alone anymore...I tried. 

Thanks for the advice guys!


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## Amplexor

Corpuswife said:


> Amplexor-i remember reading in a thread that you've had success in rekindling your marriage....Was it using these techniques?


There were a lot of factors, techniques and circumstances that helped us get the marriage on a better track. We have both agreed that pretty much everything that needed to be corrected has been with one exception. One of the toughest hurdles, she is still not in love with me. Maybe she never will return to that point but in the mean time we are together, enjoying each others company, raising our kids and planning for our future. 

LMBT had a role in it. One of the things that first attracted my wife to me was my air of confidence. We met professionally she really liked my abilities to “work a crowd” as she puts it. When I found out about the EA I pretty much came apart emotionally and lost that confidence professionally and at home. I had always felt I was pretty much a rock emotionally but when it fell apart it completely scrambled the dynamics of the relationship. She didn’t see the man in me anymore that she fell in love with. That reinforced her “friendship” with TOM as she drew closer to him for support and advice. LMBT helped me to understand that in order to gain her back I had to show confidence in myself. To let her know I wanted it to work out, would do all I could to make it work, but if it didn’t I would be ready to move on. It allowed me to look objectively at what had happened to the marriage and realize it wasn’t all my fault, we both had a hand in it’s near failure. Only when she saw the confidence return in me did she start to feel better that things had a chance to work out. She stopped pulling away from me emotionally and physically. The process has been very long, over two years but I am once again her emotional center and best friend.

There was a lot of pain and anxiety for us both but it has all been worth it. We are not completely out of the woods but in many ways the marriage is better than it has ever been. We communicate at a level we never had before. We spend more time together then we have in years. I love her more deeply then I ever thought possible.

As a side note The Five Languages of Love was a huge help to me also. We speak different love languages and I had never understood that before.

Good luck to you Corpus.


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## Corpuswife

A surgeon friend of mine said that he doesn't believe that people are "in love" after so many years....in my instance 24. He believes it is a deeper committed type of love. He told me that he loves his wife dearly but isn't in love with her (not the butterfly in your stomach/can't wait to see you).

He also went on to say, if my husband ends up "in love" with another person...that 20 years from now there is ZERO chance that he will still be "in love" with that person.


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## Corpuswife

UPDATE: I'm still on my tough approach. This week I've done pretty well. I'm my normal self, except I am not trying to touch or hang onto my husband. When I say I have a meeting, I don't elaborate. This is to make him wonder....hmmm, what is she up to.

He found a furnished apartment on a monthly basis. He will move out this Friday. Last night, we had a long talk about the conditions of our separation. How we will relate communication wise, child wise, financial wise, etc. 

I think he was suprised at my hard stance on little to no communication between us. I stated that this is like a trial divorce. In my mind, I have to risk this in order to slap him in the face with reality.

We agreed that in a month from his moving out, we will evaluate as to how things are going. 

Funny thing his "cage" door is open and now he is thinking "is this what I really want." Last night, for the first time since Oct. he was agressive sexually and wanted to have sex (even kiss). This is significant. Guess wha??!!! I told him that I didnt' want to. I was as kind and sweet as I could be. Hmmmmmmmm. I suprised myself.

If we would have had sex last night, he would have thought I was the same ole me...willing to take anything. I am no longer the chasee.


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## Amplexor

Corpuswife said:


> A surgeon friend of mine said that he doesn't believe that people are "in love" after so many years....in my instance 24. He believes it is a deeper committed type of love. He told me that he loves his wife dearly but isn't in love with her (not the butterfly in your stomach/can't wait to see you).


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/3991-five-kinds-love.html


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## Corpuswife

I believe that we've experienced all during the course of our 24 years of marriage. Perhaps even twice! Good post. Thanks


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## Corpuswife

It has been 9 days since my husband moved out. Today, my 15 year old was going to spend the night with him. He called me to get a pickup time (after church). He wanted to go to lunch afterwards with my daughter and I. I hestitated but agreed.

I called a friend who is my tough love support. I didn't feel like it was a the right thing to do (eat lunch with him) during the separation. This would give him the comfort of the family unit. I am into letting him experience the full out pain of the separation. Afterall, "the grass is greener" right?

I texted him and said I couldn't make lunch, had other plans, but he could pick up daughter at house. 

I WAS very proud of myself. I cried after he left. It went against my nature to cancel a meeting with him. However, if I ate lunch or had sex or chit chat on the phone with him. Where will it get me? Same ole stuff different day. Nothing changes. Until he is ready to reconcile, I am holding a hard stance. 

This is going to be a difficult 3 weeks. We meet at that point to figure out...continue on, divorce, or reconcile.


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## IfYouSaySo

Corpuswife....

Good for you! It made me so happy to hear you are in the drivers seat =) I wish there were a way for my H to actually move out of the house instead of just into another room. Not only would it make it alot easier for me emotionally but maybe he would get the same slap of reality...

I'm VERY proud of your strength....keep it up!!!


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## Corpuswife

Ifyousayso,

I read your thread. You were pretty tough...I never initiated the separate bedrooms. He did. Just do what you can at this point. 

You husbands sound like he needs a good slap of reality. I know how you said financially you couldn't separate. What is your next step?


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## mom08102

Corpuswife said:


> UPDATE: I'm still on my tough approach. This week I've done pretty well. I'm my normal self, except I am not trying to touch or hang onto my husband. When I say I have a meeting, I don't elaborate. This is to make him wonder....hmmm, what is she up to.
> 
> He found a furnished apartment on a monthly basis. He will move out this Friday. Last night, we had a long talk about the conditions of our separation. How we will relate communication wise, child wise, financial wise, etc.
> 
> I think he was suprised at my hard stance on little to no communication between us. I stated that this is like a trial divorce. In my mind, I have to risk this in order to slap him in the face with reality.
> 
> We agreed that in a month from his moving out, we will evaluate as to how things are going.
> 
> Funny thing his "cage" door is open and now he is thinking "is this what I really want." Last night, for the first time since Oct. he was agressive sexually and wanted to have sex (even kiss). This is significant. Guess wha??!!! I told him that I didnt' want to. I was as kind and sweet as I could be. Hmmmmmmmm. I suprised myself.
> 
> If we would have had sex last night, he would have thought I was the same ole me...willing to take anything. I am no longer the chasee.


Good for you


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## Corpuswife

15 days. Still no contact other than last Sunday invite to lunch (I didn't go). 

He has my 15 year old and the dog this weekend! It is super lonely without the dog. I guess this is how he feels during the week!!! This is the first time for me without my sweet dog.

It really hasn't been too bad....the separation. The fact is...I hope he is in pain emotionally and feeling the grass isn't greener. Although, I do know that it's too soon to tell. 

We have 2 weeks until our meeting. I am going to let him initiate it. I am not going to call and schedule a date or time. Let him call and do the work. If not...I guess we won't meet? I am nervous about the meeting but he isn't going to know that. My fear is that he will want to go ahead with the divorce and get it over with....

I bought a killer dress for our meeting. Depending on where we are meeting, I will wear it. Depends upon the situation. 

I am still in my individual counseling. Not sure, it he's doing any work on himself???


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## Feelingalone

C.

All you can do is work on yourself. Eventually he will understand. I'm not saying it will be soon, but sometime he will. No matter what, based on what you've said he is a basiclly good person. It will hit him. I just pray that you will still want him.

Good to know you have a killer dress. My w does too. A couple of them. God she has great legs. Keep going strong, you can do this for the both of you and the dog. Remember that. You are strong, you can overcaome anything.


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## Corpuswife

FA,

You are a great support thank you. You are the most positive person I've come across regarding my relationship. I suppose you and my H have alot in common. It helps to sort of have an "insiders view." 

Tonight (Sat) and I am home alone. I tried to make plans but everyone was busy. Oh well. I really don't mind being alone...I am lucky that way!! I still miss my dog. haha


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## overitnolove

Don't you remember when you were young, when the flirting instinct were so second nature you didn't need to think about them.

Look great around someone he knows well and have fun. He'll find out that you're happy and looking good.

Look your best whenever you are out. Dress up, smell good, do your hair, you are beautiful, strong, compssionate and worthy. Make him remember.

Make a 'business' reason to catch up looking amazing and happy, do what you need to do, flirt with him and leave.

Good luck,

S


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## Corpuswife

overitinlove,

Good pointers. I have been doing the looking good thing for the past few months. 

I should be meeting him in a few weeks and that is when I will pull out the "killer dress." 

I need to go to the local, after work, bar and meet some friends. Many people go there that he knows. Interesting thought.....

I've had a, lets say, sensitive weekend. I started my waking up early (4 am) and thinking/mulling/obsessing about our relationship. This is something that I haven't done in a few weeks. Then Saturday night it turned into sadness. My fear is, during the meeting, in a few weeks he is going to want to file for a divorce. I will be devastated. I know this isn't the right thing for us. There will be nothing that I can do.....I hate being helpless.


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## Feelingalone

C,

It just seems you are helpless. You've got let go of the fear of it not working out. I have fear too, but it is diminishing. My counselor says if you fear it and let your fear overcome you, you are setting a path for that fear to come true. Try to create a positive image of the outcome and believe in it.

FA


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## Corpuswife

Helpless....let's say I have moments. Last weekend was a long helpless moment!

Yesterday, for the first time I initiated contact in a text. I asked for a password/id for a website. He got back and said he had to get it at work on Monday. 

Well, I guess this text got him excited. He texted me this AM regarding my daughter's varsity tennis tryouts match and mentioned his parents. I ignored the text. It's been 17 days with little contact.

Then he called and left a message regarding the password/id. I waited to call but returned it an hour later. Why let him think I am waiting for his next call? We talked about the password, then he brought up arrangement for our daughter. We are both flexible. He said my daughter (15 years) was wondering? We had already discussed this....I went over the routine. 

When I got off the phone, I asked my daughter if she was wondering how the visitation was going to work or if she asked about it? She said "no." Oh.

Perhaps he is looking to find reasons to make contact with me. My boundaries are contact only for mutual business. Sure, it began with mutual business but no without some personal "notes." I ended the conversation when that began.

I feel bad. He really is a good, sweet, guy but damn it! This is his choice. What does he want from me?

Feeling Alone: It's so difficult to let go of the fear totally. It crepts in. It is like I have to prepare myself.


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## Feelingalone

I know C. I feel that way sometimes too. Maybe that is why it just stays there lingering in the background. Then erupts for a while and fades again. Stay positive. It sounds like he might be getting close to realizing.


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## Amplexor

This may be the beginning of him seeing the reality of it all. The wheels may be turning. You’re doing the right things Corpus, stay strong.


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## Corpuswife

Thank you Amplexor,

I REALLY need someone to cheer me on! I feel so alone much of the time. I've dedicated 24 years to my family. Really dedicated...sometimes I think too much. I suppose it was the opposite that I had in childhood and I wanted things different. They are....well were.

My 20 year old called this AM. He ended up being rude and disrespectful. I called him on it and said I was going to end the call because of it. Anyway, he called back to apologize. I was crying at that point and he asked why....I told him that I felt like I was a loser. He said "mom you're not a loser. Why do you think that." 

I said.."I feel like a throwaway with your dad; you can be selfish and harsh with your words; your sister was being a jerk at tennis tryouts (this AM) and told me she didn't want me to watch her after she lost a match. I've dedicated 24 years to my family. Now I am just tossed aside." Poor boy! This is the first time he's heard me break down regarding my situation. 

Today...this is how I am feeling today. The throwaway wife/mom.


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## Feelingalone

Go C, Go!!!! Just cheering you on. Don't get down on yourself. Don't doubt yourself. You are strong. 

Your son and daughter understand. Remember, they love you unconditionally. You aren't disposable. You mean something to your friends, your family and yourself. Always remember that.


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## overitnolove

When you are 20 you have no isda about parents and sacrifice and, hello, the fact that you are human.

It is a good thing you broke down to him on the phone. There is nothing wrong with that. Is is a grown young man, and he will understand, and possible realise how he takes you for granted a bit.

Go Go go!!!!!! Yeahhhhh!!!!!!! That's my cheer for you too.

It does sound like he is coming around a bit though... has he called again?


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## Corpuswife

He seems to think that business texts are ok. He texted yesterday afternoon to ask if our daughter was ok after the tennis match (she lost) and couldn't get ahold of her. I didn't text back.

I told my daughter that her dad was wondering about her and had called.

I still WANT to think he's making "business contact" because he wants to still have some contact with me. I would love to think he is coming around.

However, my perspective is sometimes off...I think. It may be he really sees it as business only and not an opportunity to contact me. I don't believe he's capable of being manipulative. He's just not the type. But then I mull it over and perhaps he's not even aware of it!


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## Corpuswife

Another weekend coming up. It will be 3 weeks separated tomorrow. Hurray. NOT!! I am dreading another dead weekend. Daughter will be gone and H is picking her up after church on Sunday for several days. 

We spoke today regarding this weeks visitation schedule. We are playing it "by ear" as it's the summer and I am not working yet. Mentioning he was on his way to an appt. etc. Anyway, I try to maintain a cheerful, friendly attitude.

Inside...I feel hopeless. As we were discussing the visitation he mentioned when he was gonna bring her back (next weekend). It will be (1) month apart. We had originally agreed to meet at that point to see if we keep things as they are; divorce; reconcile. He didn't remember or mention it at this time. I don't plan on saying a word. If he remembers are wants to meet than I am game.

I read so much into everything. I figured if he wanted to get the divorce, then he'd meet as planned? Knowing him, he just forgot.

I am learning to reach out to others for help. I am asking some of the newer people that I've met to do things. I am trying to create connections. I am working out. It's still lonely though.


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## Feelingalone

C, 

I know how you feel. I am lonely as well. It is tough. Just try to keep doing things here and there. 

It is hard not to read into things. IF he doesn't bring it up I take that as a good thing. Means he isn't ready. Again, arbitrary timelines are irrelevant during these situations. It only adds to tenseness of the parties which isn't good. Can't force decisions.

Stay strong and keep on moving like you are.


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## Corpuswife

You are right. I am a reader. I read into everything. If he doesn't bring it up, then he isn't ready. I need to remember that!


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## Corpuswife

Last night I went out with a guy friend to a club to listen to some music. It's a place that my husband might stop by after work or his friends might go.

Anyway, my agenda was to have someone he knows recognize me with my friend. I want him to know that I am doing things and having fun....perhaps a bit of jealousy would spin up some feelings??? 

Not sure if anyone was there....but I had a good time anyway.


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## Corpuswife

Today, after church my H came to pickup my daughter. It's strange to have him knock on our door. I invited him in and our daughter showed us her new school clothes. 

I didn't say much, other than offering him a drink and giving him his mail. He asked about our son (20 years old) and it was more chit chat. Really the first conversation, in person, in over 3 weeks. It was friendly. Truthfully, we have always been friendly. No big deal.

Before he left, he said I looked good. I gave him a hug and peck on the cheek. I don't think he knows what to do with me? Considering I set my boundaries and all. I believe he's afraid of overstepping them...after all he doesn't like conflict? ha


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## Corpuswife

Hey! I think this is becoming a blog! I suppose there is nothing left to comment on. I just come here to vent.

I saw him at the seawall (beach) where I walk for exercise. He pulled up behind me with our daughter. He was dropping her off with friends. I asked him jokingly "are you following me." He just smiled. 

We walked a little ways on the seawall and I told him him I liked his coffee cup. He mentioned something else and I told him I had been swimming for exercise. He said that our daughter brought it up. I told him I was up to 1/2 mile. He seemed surprised. I am not a hard core athlete by any means. He is. He asked me if I wanted to do a triatholon next weekend. I said "no thanks..I'm only walking an swimming." I guess it was a tease. 

I said..."have a good day...gotta go." Then I left him in the dust (sounds dramatic)!!

I told my mom, at lunch, that I would have given him his divorce if I though it was purely the relationship that was bothering him and the source of his unhappiness. However, I know he doesn't deal with life and tends to avoid conflict and confrontation. All he does is "stuff-stuff" his feelings. 

In my heart, I know he is going through the same things that I am...loneliness/heartbreak/etc., however, I like to think that he is having a more difficult time than I. I probably am fooling myself. It's not that I want him to feel pain. I want him to work and recognize the pain...she he can deal with it!


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## Feelingalone

Gosh C, I really hope my w is like you. That she really is hurtin. He is an idiot - I know I am too. But the avoidance of conflict with the one you love most is not born overnight - it started when he was young I'll bet you - just like me.


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## Corpuswife

Yep! She's hurting...you just don't walk away easily from a husband and the father of your child and a history. You weren't abusive or had affairs....She acting out and hurting. That is a guarantee.

Yep! The avoidance thing not born overnight. His Mom admitted that one. She is the queen of avoidance.


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## Feelingalone

C,

I really hope you are right about my w. I'm pretty sure I'm correct about your h. If he is like me he is hurting too, but won't admit it to you - continuing avoidance.


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## Corpuswife

For the past few days I will be alone. My husband took my daugher on a business trip. 

I feel pretty good today and yesterday. I have been recognizing that this crisis has allowed me to draw closer to GOD. I know he has a plan for me now...even though I am not sure what the plan is. I just hope I listen to it! 

After going through my depression for several years, I can't help think of how happy I am now! Isn't it ironic that my marriage is broken and I am happy! Don't get me wrong. I love my H and want to restore our marriage. We do love each other. He just needs to do some soul searching. I am happy as a person, but also sad that it came down to "this." In addition, there are bouts of pain, anger, and loneliness. However, during my depression....I never felt any real happiness. It was hard to feel. Now I can and it's joyous. I just wish it would have happened sooner. It played a role in the demise of our marriage and I am sorry about that.

I have a sense, and I read my H pretty well, that he isn't doing well. I'm not sure how enlightened this separation has made him. Before he left he told me that he would "work on himself" per my suggestion. Not sure if that is happening...maybe he is doing his own soul searching. This separation was his choice.

It would be a travesty that our marriage doesn't work out. Really. I can't force him to stay and be happy. I am learning to let go. 

Thanks for letting me vent here.


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## Feelingalone

Feel your loneliness this weekend as well. W and little guy are going away today. But, I'm sure I can get myself into trouble. So can you.

You are strong C. You've come a long way in your life so be proud of that. Keep moving for you and the path will claify.


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## no1.daddy2kids

> It would be a travesty that our marriage doesn't work out. Really. I can't force him to stay and be happy. I am learning to let go.


It seems like so many people are saying the same thing here. We don't know how it got to where it is, or maybe we do now, but it crept up slowly over time to where things fall apart. 

Its a good thing this is here. It seems the group attracts all types. I can't imagine doing this without every support I can muster. One minute I am fine, the next I am trying not to crack up at work.

As everyone here says, we are all on the same type of journey. We all know what each other is going through. This is the place to blow off the pressure. Vent away.


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## Corpuswife

no1.daddy2kids said:


> It seems like so many people are saying the same thing here. We don't know how it got to where it is, or maybe we do now, but it crept up slowly over time to where things fall apart.
> 
> Its a good thing this is here. It seems the group attracts all types. I can't imagine doing this without every support I can muster. One minute I am fine, the next I am trying not to crack up at work.
> 
> As everyone here says, we are all on the same type of journey. We all know what each other is going through. This is the place to blow off the pressure. Vent away.


No1,

You are right! It's terrific to vent and get opinions. I don't know what I would do without it. It's easier than picking up the phone to call a friend...who is usually busy!

The emotions change and come quick on a daily/hourly basis. THAT I know for sure. Especially when you are at the peak of the crisis...discussion separation/divorce or moving out or filing or discovering your partner is having an affair. Those are times in which you are consumed with emotions. Consumed. It's a wonder how we survive when we think our world is coming apart and our heart is broken. We do and we will. I believe, if we do the right thing in our lives and listen to God that things eventually turn out for the better. 

I pray for myself and everyone else here.


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## Feelingalone

Amen.


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## no1.daddy2kids

Although it is not a faith based board, it seems, there sure seem to be many people driven by faith here. So many posts talk about prayer and its power. I am encouraged by that. I was not raised in a chruch going home,but one thing W did for me was ask for me to be a member at our church. I am glad I did. I have grown so much since then and even reading all your postings here have helped me go in faith.


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## lonelyandsad

I am in the first stages of tough love. H is living in house, just going through the motions. Does kiss me goodnight, that is about it. I am trying to do things for me, but find it hard. Sometimes I just want a hug and hear him say "it will be alright", but I know that is not going to happen. Hopefully, while I concentrate on me, he will find his way. I am keeping conversations casual (no relationship talk), trying to be pleasant and NOT act like my world is falling apart. My question is this...........how long do I do this? Do I eventually move out , which would ruin us financially and just destroy my daughter (who is 21)? Like I said it has only been two weeks. We have been married 23 years and I believe he is going through mid-life crisis or something like it. Thanks for listening.


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## Corpuswife

If you don't have Dr. Dobson's book When Love Must Be Tough, it's a good read.

I am afraid there are no time tables. I wish I knew how long as well. I would suggest seperate rooms, if you haven't already. 
This allows you distance and sleep. I know that I couldn't sleep well until he left our bed. 

I know that whole separate room thing is one step in the direction that you DON'T want to go. It allows you both space and time to think. If they really want out...then this is how life will be sleeping wise. 

Two weeks, in my opinion, is only the beginning.....be patient and kind. However, set your boundaries and be consistent (like you would with a child). Keep doing things for yourself as well.







lonelyandsad said:


> I am in the first stages of tough love. H is living in house, just going through the motions. Does kiss me goodnight, that is about it. I am trying to do things for me, but find it hard. Sometimes I just want a hug and hear him say "it will be alright", but I know that is not going to happen. Hopefully, while I concentrate on me, he will find his way. I am keeping conversations casual (no relationship talk), trying to be pleasant and NOT act like my world is falling apart. My question is this...........how long do I do this? Do I eventually move out , which would ruin us financially and just destroy my daughter (who is 21)? Like I said it has only been two weeks. We have been married 23 years and I believe he is going through mid-life crisis or something like it. Thanks for listening.


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## Corpuswife

Lately the LMBT relationship has been slow. Not much action or words.

Today.....something happened. Really the first "touch base" phone call that I've had since our separation a month ago. He called to talk about a few things. He asked how I was..."I am great thanks" was my reply. He went on to mention his work and office politics and not speaking to his business partner (a first in 15 years). He called to talk about our daughters allergies. He called to talk to see how my mom was. He called to say he saw my friend, Harold, riding his bike. He was nice and offered a spare helment and seat adjustment to my friend as he noticed him riding his bike last night (my H is a biker/road racer). I said "thanks, I'll tell him." 

I ended up sharing with him my new volunteer activity. I told him, as a part of my conversation about my mom, that I told her "don't worry...it is what it is....I am getting on with my life!" I did ask him (which goes against the LMBT) if he was seeing a counselor. He said "I just called for an appointment." Well, I couldn't help it. He sounded bad/depressed...almost like a robot at times. 

I have to tell you for a guy that wanted out to be happy (grass is greener), he isn't happy sounding at all. I told him before the separation that it wasn't just the marriage it was him and he was blaming me. I think he is starting to realize this finally.


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## carilynn

Corpuswife I envy your strength. I feel like I should go, and yet so scared. One minute Im good, and thinking this will be positive, and the next Im ready to cry. 
I have always thought that the saying "the grass is always greener" was a joke! I think the person saying that was so far away and couldn't see the dog crap all over. Does that even make sense? 
You are going great! Best to you


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## Corpuswife

carilynn said:


> Corpuswife I envy your strength. I feel like I should go, and yet so scared. One minute Im good, and thinking this will be positive, and the next Im ready to cry.
> I have always thought that the saying "the grass is always greener" was a joke! I think the person saying that was so far away and couldn't see the dog crap all over. Does that even make sense?
> You are going great! Best to you



Thanks Carilynn,

I don't always feel strong. It's important, in front of him, to project strength. Around most people I project strength. I should get an Oscar as most of the time...I feel angry, lonely, disappointed and scared. You aren't alone. 

I liked your grass is greener....when you can't see the dog crap (far away)! Too funny! Yep. It's NEVER greener unless there is abuse or affairs or addictions. 

Thanks for the support.


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## Feelingalone

And even if that it is an affiar the grass is still brown. Because the person running away hasn't fixed themselves. And it will happen all over again. Same bat channel, same bat time.


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## Corpuswife

Feelingalone said:


> And even if that it is an affiar the grass is still brown. Because the person running away hasn't fixed themselves. And it will happen all over again. Same bat channel, same bat time.


You are right. I was mostly meaning affairs/abuse/addictions against the victim.....that is the only way I'd think the grass could possibly be greener....if you are the victim of these.


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## Feelingalone

Agreed. Corpuswife. And I think your H is starting to see it. Just wish I could tell you how long it will be, but who knows. He will get it. But lets face it, if he doesn't right his own ship and become happy with himself, would you really want to be with him. And I realize what I'm saying because I'm looking into a mirror with him.


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## lonelyandsad

Well, as much as I tried to avoid it, I could just kick myself! I am trying to stick to the light, happy talk (no relationship talk), but it happened last night. He is going away this weekend (down south) because he feels he is being "suffocated". But admitted that I have been "great" through all this. I have made up my mind, I will not call him while he is gone and may not even answer him if he calls. The man is going through a midlife crisis and/or depression. But I can't help him. I would like to lovingly mention to him he is depressed and may need medication or therapy, but I haven't yet. I am trying to do things on my own and keep busy, but how and where do you make new friends? I actually only have one good friend. But, after 24 years of marriage, friends are scarce, as sad as it sounds. Thanks for letting me sound off!! D.


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## mistake maker

corpuswife and feelingalon, i agree with both of you so much. I have the ups and downs each day since my wife left with the kids almost two months ago. I am starting to be happy with myself but it takes work,I was always more worried about what other people thought. Now I am trying to concentrate on making myself better.


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## Feelingalone

Mistakemaker, unfortunately the ups and downs are part of the process. Heck I learned something about myself the other day which tore me apart for a while. Something that I've got to fix in myself to be happy no matter what happens with my w. But the first step in fixing is to realize and then to understand how to fix and apply and reapply until it is fixed.

Same here MM on the what other people thought. Now I really don't care. I admit sometimes I do, but less and less.


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## Corpuswife

lonelyandsad said:


> Well, as much as I tried to avoid it, I could just kick myself! I am trying to stick to the light, happy talk (no relationship talk), but it happened last night. He is going away this weekend (down south) because he feels he is being "suffocated". But admitted that I have been "great" through all this. I have made up my mind, I will not call him while he is gone and may not even answer him if he calls. The man is going through a midlife crisis and/or depression. But I can't help him. I would like to lovingly mention to him he is depressed and may need medication or therapy, but I haven't yet. I am trying to do things on my own and keep busy, but how and where do you make new friends? I actually only have one good friend. But, after 24 years of marriage, friends are scarce, as sad as it sounds. Thanks for letting me sound off!! D.


lonely,

I had the same problems regarding friends. This is what I am doing. I reach out to people (work/school/activities) and invite them to do things (lunch/dinner/drinks). It's difficult as many already have a routine established with others. However, sometimes they can't get together right away. Don't give up, ask them later. I've told me new friends..."I really need to get out...do you wanna....?" It's not easy, but through our activities and life you run into people. It's up to you to reach out.

Also, it's a good idea to not call or contact your H when he's gone. The fact that he feels "suffocated" was a sign. When he does get home, you get busy. Not your normal busy...go out and have fun. Go to a coffee shop, book store, etc. You don't have to tell him where you are going..."you are going out." This will peak his interest and have him think you are moving on without him.


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## Corpuswife

A down day:

My 15 year old D has been a 15 year old! During my week of visitation, she spend most of it with friends and my mom. The little time, that I have...I am getting her to do her chores/laundry. She really is a pig. 

Her dad just picked her up and was waiting in the driveway. She had an appt. for an haircut. I told her that if her chores weren't done by the time he was here...he'd have to wait until she finished them. She had plenty of time but was goofin around. Of course, dad shows up, and I asked "are you finished." "No" she replied. Well, "I was serious." She huffed and went to finish the chores. I bet they aren't all done. 

I am falling into the parent that enforces rules...like I always have. My H get to see her for a few days of fun and sun. I am really pissed that I am having to be the mean parent. 

She stormed to her dads car, when she finished up, and I followed her. She rolled down her window and I told she was being disrespectful and knew that I was serious. It was her choice for waiting until the last minute. I then said "Hi to my H." He said is there anything, that I should know about...I said "no" and walked away. This was all said calmly. 

I was pissed at my H, when I walked away. I know, not his fault, but he has this freakin.....don't confront me look. Are you gonna get mad at me. What a freakin coward! Running from me..wanting out. I feel like telling him to go F...... himself right now. I am a bitter person at this moment. I don't derserve this. I am strong but not strong enough for both of us in this marriage.

Not sure if there is a point here other than frustration. I hate being that I have limited time with my D. It's his fault. I hate that I am the mean parent. It's his fault. I hate that I am going out tonight with a new friend. I don't want to go now. I want to stay home with my family. I hate that I have to expand my connections and support. It's his fault.

OK. That's all for now.


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## Feelingalone

C,

Stop saying that mean parent crap. You are just being a responsible, great parent. If you didn't enforce the rules then where will she be in a few years. 

And yes you should have told your H about the argument so that he could continue to be "on" her about that. I'm sure that he would.

Now go out and get the book "The Dance with Anger" for you and then give it to him. I don't know if it would do anything. But I have gound it truly amazing so far.

It is no ones fault and you know it. IT IS WHAT IT IS. You are strong, strong enough for all of you. 

In the end expanding your connections will make you a better person anyway.

I'm done.


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## Corpuswife

OK Feelingalone,

No pity parties allowed. I get it! I did have fun tonight anyway. Made plans for a fundraiser for the Red Cross. Serving others is what makes me happy. 

Thanks...


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## Corpuswife

Not sure if I am going through some sort of stage...an anger stage. 

It seems that every time I see him, I behave in a nice respectful manner. Then, after he leaves and the door shuts... I call him a name! HA! 

Saw him today, he stopped with my D to pickup some homework. They both came in this time. He sat down and was very comfortable. I don't really ask him any questions. I respond pretty simply to his questions. He will mention..."I rode 80 miles today." I smile or get distracted. Part of his tough love thing is to take away his comfortable chit chat with me. The thing he always had with me...every day. He was happy yesterday and today. I think it had to do with meeting with his counselor for the first time. Who knows????

He seems more comfortable with me today then ever. He even got up and went to the freezer to get some frozen dove meat (from last hunting season). Didn't ask. Just did it. I ignored.

I supposed I will print this thread out one day as a momento of my life.

I hope my writing these mundane postings will end up helping someone who want/needs to do the tough love thing. Sort of the ups and downs and emotions of it all. Of course, every relationship is different. And this is just my side of the story.


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## Corpuswife

On Sunday his dad fainted in the kitchen. It's now Tues. and the doctor has figured that he'll need a pacemaker. Surgery tomorrow. My H has been calling on/off with updates. I don't call him. I call his mom.

I don't know where his head it at at all and frankly I have grown tired of guessing. I feel like I am pulling away from the relationship now. I don't want this as I still want to be married to him. However, I think this is something that happens over time. We had problems since Oct. 08 and have been separated for 5 weeks.

I am normally a patient person...not like Vovoid! During the past few days, I tell myself "I am tired of these games, maybe I should just cash it in and give up." I wonder if he is ever going to discuss anything with me? I have to wait for him to come around and show interest. Will that be 2, 4, 8, 12 months? I know that none of us have time lines. I can't help feel like I could be wasting precious time in my life instead of waiting on someone to emotionally "come to."


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## Corpuswife

Due to the fact of his dad's hospitalization, we have had more contact than the previous weeks. His dad had a pacemaker put in today.

My H has been calling to let me know. I try not to call him but call my mother in law, his mom. I notice that he seems cheerful and positive and thankful during our brief conversation.

Today, I went to visit my father in law, before surgery. My father in law was in the restroom. My h was in the room when I entered. We said "hello" to each other. He complimented my hair, shirt and painted toenails. I thanked him. When he left he bent down (I was seated ) and gave me a hug. 

He keeps telling me that he appreciated me visiting his dad and for the calls. 

I am not doing it for him (my H). 

Not sure if this means a single thing. I am out of energy for guessing. Just thought I'd keep my journal "fresh" with info.


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## jsniceguy

CW - I have put my first post out today but spent a lot of time reading yours with which you have given me some strength and some good ideas. My support is there for you and continue to be strong - that is what I admired aobut what you have done so far.


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## Corpuswife

Thanks jsniceguy!

When the relationship problems are new or newly confronted it's a scary topsy-turvey time. YOu don't know how to proceed and where to turn when the other spouse is no longer "in love" with you. What does that mean?

We go through the begging, convincing, sex, pleading and nothing works. My h thoughts turned negative and stayed negative. You would have thought that after knowning each other for 30 years that we had never had a positive moment. We've had more than most! His brain is blocked/overcome with the emotions.

After you do all of these things....and they don't work for you...then what? This is how I ended up with Love Must Be Tough (LMBT). Yep. It's tough alright. Tough on me!

I have to remind myself that a change (postive/negative) in my marriage will take time. It took time to break it down and will take more to build it up. I hope this is the case.


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## Corpuswife

Yesterday, after over 6 weeks....I had my toughtest day/night yet.

I posted on another thread but wanted to write here as well. I'm not sure why this was a bad day. No real reason. 

On the outside I look strong for the most part. On the inside it's iffy! I kept thinking yesterday, how he probably wasn't coming back and here I am waiting and posting and reading self help books and attending counseling. Of course, I am moving forward. 

As silly as it sounds....divorce or pursuing your spouse is easy. When you are backing off like I am...you aren't doing what is natural to do. You are waiting.

Yesterday, I kept thinking that I should tell him I'm ending it and move away. Run like he does. 

I won't do it now. I will give it more time. I'll reevaluate at the end of September. I know no timelines everyone says. I just need to tell myself that I can look at the picture at the end of the month and see if I can go on like this. This is very painful.


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## JackStack

Corpuswife,

I have been reading your whole thread and think you are doing a fantastic job. 

I have taken your advice on my own thread and am at the point now where I need to step back. 

Its tough but I know I'll get there. I love my wife so much and have made my mistakes in the past but I really believe in my marriage. Its time for a change in tactic if you will because things are going down the tubes the way they are.

We've been at each other throats in a big way in the last week and we've both got everything off our chests. Its hurtful but good I guess as now I feel that space is what is needed. 

This is the approach I'm going to take.


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## Corpuswife

Jackstack: Thanks for the support. Sometimes backing off is all you CAN do...Best wishes for you.

I invited my H to church on Sept. 13th as we're having a Relationship Series that the pastor is beginning. I did it via e-mail but no response (he did read it). Also I texted him that I have a job interview on Friday. He usually always responds. I am wondering if he is super busy or ignoring me? 

This is all making me wonder. These two things (church and interview) messages are the first time in almost 7 weeks that I have contacted him that was non mutual business. Now...I am wondering..could HE be further distancing himself? 

Oh....I don't want a divorce. Reading minds is no fun.


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## Corpuswife

(copied post from my other thread)

I ended up calling him today regarding our kids. However, I did have an agenda. I asked him how he was doing (ok). I told him how if he needed anything that I was there (thanked me). I asked him if he was continuing counseling (hopes to) as he went 2 weeks ago (during a crisis).

This all goes against my LMBT (love must be tough) stance. However, in my gut I felt he wasn't doing well.

Then, I ended up calling his best friend. He's a friend of mind also. He told me that he was doing ok and that was to be expected. He had a talk with my H's business partner awhile back. I believe there was some concern for my H and all between the two of them. His bf isn't going to give me details nor do I ask. I just thanked him for being there for him.

So much for my "backing off." I just want to hug him and tell him it's going to be "OK."


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## Feelingalone

Don't we all. Don't we all.


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## Corpuswife

My husband emailed me this afternoon to meet. He can only meet after Tuesday. I ended up seeing him this evening as my daughter had to pick up something she forgot. I told him Wed. AM or evening.

I am so afraid that this is the time that he's going to announce moving forward with the divorce. I know he's still in pain and not doing well. I know that he hasn't given me any hints or signs of wanting to reconnect. 

So Wednesday, I am going to know how my life is going to be laid out. At least for the next several months if he wants to continue the separation. It's like waiting for death to come. 

I told him to pick the time and place to meet. If he wants to meet at a restaurant than he won't drop the D word. However, if it's private than.....

I am going to need this board more than ever....on Wednesday.


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## brighterlight

Corpus, your anxiety level must be so bad right now. Take deep breaths and try to get it out of your mind until Wed. Whatever the news will be there is no use in you suffering for 4 or 5 days with it - it is out of your control. I know it's easy to say but really, you are going get yourself physically sick. Whatever happens, remember that God is the one in charge, really. I will pray that everything works out for you.


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## Corpuswife

Thank you brighter: I am preparing myself for the worse. Anything else is a piece of cake.

I've given it to God but still have flashes of sadness and disappointment of course. God is the one in charge and I'm happy to give it to him. I hope my H realized this as well. 

My friend mentioned that my H has been standoffish to others not just me. It may be that he just wants to talk. Maybe..we did plan pre-separation to meet at the month point (he never mentioned it nor did I). It will be at the 2 months point next week.

It's hard to wipe it from my mind.


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## Corpuswife

It's Saturday night and I have over 3 days to go until our meeting.

He emailed and said he can meet Wedneday after he drops our daughter off at school. Wedneday morning at our house.

I have my planned responses and have even added another extra diddy to the divorce response. 

1) "I think we should go ahead with the divorce." (him)

"I think you are right." (ME)

2) "I'd like to have permission to date." (me)

This is why I would like present #2 to my husband:

1) Obviously, this means I have someone in mind to date or currently dating (I won't date). It will drag up jealous feelings in my husband. I know he is NOT expecting this from me and doesn't realize that his jealous feelings may exist. This creates crisis and possibility for a change in the course.

2) I realize that I am playing with fire. If he thinks I am dating then HE may date others. This is the risk that I take. If we divorce a few months from now..he will date. This is only postponing the inevitable. It may be worth the reward.

If he says.."no I think we should wait until after the divorce."

1) Then I will say "Then, we'll see...I won't flaunt my dating and the kids will not know." This tells him that he really doesn't have a choice in the matter. I was being respectful to ask. He doens't have me at his beck and call...he doesn't get to snap his fingers and I am there...

What do you think????


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## Corpuswife

This morning we met.

He want to proceed with the divorce. 

I asked for permission to date (I have no intention). He said "OK." It threw him off. His body language changed (foot shaking/mouth/eye contact). 

I ended up crying at end....not bawling. I was hoping that wouldn't happen.


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## CarolineMRF

I am sorry, but I have just picked up bits and pieces of this situation so please forgive...However, to the person who told you that you cannot be passionately in love as you age, I can assure you that you can...Either that or I am living with some other man that I am going to bed with....Now about you, I take it that you are both about 38...I say this seeing that you met at 14...It sounds to me like he may be in some sort of mid-life crisis...Yes, men do go through this...How about your love life?...Had it faded at all?...Was he having any problems along this line?....


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## dobo

My husband's ex- left him but when she came to the house and I was there she was a complete mess. I'm afraid that in the end, it doesn't mean anything.

I'm really sorry for your loss. I know you didn't want this. But you tried everything you could. 

Vent and let us know how you're doing. I can't imagine what you're going through.


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## Corpuswife

Caroline: We are in our 40's. Our love life has always been pretty good up until Oct. Now....it's not so good as we are separated and divorce is looming. 

dobo: I wasn't sure what you meant. You H's ex left but came back??

I am doing better since this morning. I had tons of emails to answer and phone calls of support. I will go over a friends tonight. 

I also had an appt. with my counselor this afternoon. That made me feel better. As she said...people get together all of the time after the divorce. I know. I might be busy then???haha


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## voivod

Corpuswife said:


> I had an appt. with my counselor this afternoon. As she said...people get together all of the time after the divorce.


your counselor said that? ha! what on earth do we need counselors for then?!?!


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## mls31

I am so very sorry for you. I know this wasn't what you wanted. You have been patient, kind, and willing. 

It seems our stories are rather similar. Divorce is also looming for me. 

I hope that you are busy if he wants to get together after the divorce. You deserve all the happiness in the world! My thoughts are with you.


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## Corpuswife

Thank you mls31....I wish you the best. Time will heal an time will tell.

V: I think the counselor was telling me that there are a good chunk of couples that get back together....somewhere down the line after the divorce. Not sure on the statistics but I've heard of a few along the way. Not sure if that's enough to keep my hope alive. I don't think it would be healthy for me to hope to get together after the divorce.

I am moving on. Not liking it. Hoping for a better 2010.


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## knortoh

I love reading these posts where you are starting to sound really empowered. I kind of think unless he comes back wholeheartedly it won't work anyway. When my H came back I was still very passive and after about 1 month he returned to his miserable ways - and to be honest the reconcilation period really did me over emotionally - 
much harder to recover from it a 2nd time. If I had my time over I would never have been so 'nice'.


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## Corpuswife

I've prepared myself for reconciliation. It may NEVER happen knortoh...I may not get the chance.

My game plan would be he would need an apology and a reason other than (loneliness/financial/etc). I would be to have a happy healthier marriage. He would have a need to resolve why he left (found out the grass wasn't greener/etc). Then, he would have to be willing to work on the marriage (marriage retreat/counseling/self help books). 

It would need to be full on. Definitely setting bounaries on the way in is the way to go....

I am empowered and feel weak at the same time. I know I need to push forward but I feel like crying. I know this is normal. 

My H is hurting too. He doesn't have the outlet and support that I have. He always had me. Why on earth would somone leave a marriage like ours? I know mistakes were made but it don't get it. He's depressed or midlife crisis or something. He's alone. Wow. I am tired. Time to go to bed.


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## knortoh

Corpuswife said:


> I've prepared myself for reconciliation. It may NEVER happen knortoh...I may not get the chance.
> 
> I am empowered and feel weak at the same time. I know I need to push forward but I feel like crying. I know this is normal.
> 
> My H is hurting too. He doesn't have the outlet and support that I have. He always had me. Why on earth would somone leave a marriage like ours? I know mistakes were made but it don't get it. He's depressed or midlife crisis or something. He's alone. Wow. I am tired. Time to go to bed.


Hey I don't know about pushing forward - just aim to survive when you know what forward is you'll be drawn there - in the meantime be kind to yourself...

I feel the same about my H. Why would he leave? I think it is so cruel when the reasons aren't obvious - but for many people they are just driven by their own demons and ultimately in a weird kind of way it has nothing to do with 'the relationship'. It has taken me so long to begin to grasp this fact - in the end I have taken some comfort from this observation.

As for him hurting and being alone - I can only encourage you to try and not concern yourself a whole lot with that - 
I remember seeing my H at our kids sports day and he stood all alone with a sulky look on his face all day and I just thought what a waste - we could be here enjoying the two people we love the most in the whole world - and yet we aren't....
(why make yourself so miserable?) 
and then when I see him and he looks like he is happy happy happy I feel just as embittered - how dare he not feel devastated??????


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## dobo

Sorry for the confusion, Corpus. I just meant that while it was my husband's ex- that left, and that she was really upset about my entering the picture after they'd been separated about 7 months, it didn't cause her to want to reconcile and I'm sure at that time my (now) husband would have. 

I don't know what to say regarding "hope" for you. It isn't over until it is over though. So just keep your head and heart positive about the future, whatever it might be. It sounds as though you are in an infinitely better place than him. Very sad for both of you though.


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## Corpuswife

dobo: I see...she left but once you were in the pic...she was upset. So..I see what you mean...just because they may have some feelings it might not make them want to reconcile. 

Hope. I don't like feeling like this. I do believe I am in a better place. 

Knortoh: You have a point. I feel bad when he feels bad. I won't make me feel better if he's happy either. Then, it will be like he was right...he is happier without me. Double edged sword. I need to let him have his feelings.


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## dobo

You are incredibly well grounded. It sucks because there's no choice but to allow yourself to go through the process and all of its accompanying emotions. Your empathy for his plight is painful for you but at least it shows what a good person you are and that you truly love him. I'm sure he appreciates it even though he can't do what all of us think is the right thing. 

Ah, write a book and make some money on the deal! ;-)


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## Corpuswife

Yes! Wouldn't a book deal be cathartic? That is what autobiographers say. 

I do wish that I would have kept a journal at the beginning of this ordeal. It would have been interesting to look back someday. "How in the heck did I make it through that?"

You know, it's funny...we both are good people and we love each other. He confirmed that he loved me before he left for our separation. He said "you know I love you?" I said "I know." I have always known. As I write this, it brings tears to my eyes. 

Unanswered questions will always be in my heart. I'll never understand how you can love someone and leave. I guess, if you are "Benjamin Button" or an abuser...maybe. When you feel that you are hurting the other person. I don't know. 

He spoke of his leaving in terms of his happiness of wanting to have fun or not being attracted to me or not being "in love." Those words that took him out the door, seem childish to me. Fun, happiness, attraction, in love....words of a child. I suppose that he has the emotional intelligence of a child. That speaks to me clearly.


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## Feelingalone

C,

He is being childish emotionally. I should know that is where I was at emotionally not long ago. Stay strong and positive.


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## knortoh

Unanswered questions will always be in my heart. I'll never understand how you can love someone and leave. I guess, if you are "Benjamin Button" or an abuser...maybe. When you feel that you are hurting the other person. I don't know. 

He spoke of his leaving in terms of his happiness of wanting to have fun or not being attracted to me or not being "in love." Those words that took him out the door, seem childish to me. Fun, happiness, attraction, in love....words of a child. I suppose that he has the emotional intelligence of a child. That speaks to me clearly.[/QUOTE]

Your situation sounds so much like mine! My husband also said "I think I will always love you" and things like "it would be so much easier if I hated you" and "I know you are my best friend" etc. But this was counterbalanced by nonsense like "what would you do if a relationship just wastn't doing it for?" "what woudl you do if you fell in love with someone else?" and in the end he left twice. 

This is depsite the fact that we never stopped having sex throughout our whole marriage, and nearly every morning before I got out of bed he would ask me to keep on holding him....to say that I was blindsided is an understatement 

Perhaps we both have married men who are somehow emotionally underdeveloped - I know that hy Husbands's sister says to me that I am dealing with a boy and not a man and that he has been 'playing a role' . 

But in my case I also think that my H had difficulty dealing with anything difficult in life - and so when things were tricky he'd juts go underground - I would alsways make allowances for him at these times and take care of things - 

So now that he has left it is not surprising that I am left with all the C. to clean up. He hasn't organised anything - hasn't seen a solicitor, accountant, bank manager, mediator nothing ...
he has just left and told me that I can 'have the house' even though this is a nonsense because I can't pay for it - 

a lot more to say here - but does any othis sound familiar?


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## mls31

I don't get it either how someone can say they love you, want to forever be your friend but yet divorce you. It makes no sense. I guess the signs aren't always black and white. 

It's so hard when you've poured your heart and soul into a relationship only to realize your partner hasn't done the same.


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## Feelingalone

Knortoh,

Yes some of us men are really boys playing a role. Not intentionally, but being the man on the outside as society taught us but holding onto something from the childhood. In rough patches in comes out and when with the one you love, you hurt them by pulling away. I know of what I speak and am correcting myself. But it always takes two to tango and the other person usually pours gasoline on the fire - again not intentionally - but nonetheless true.

Then it festers by one or the other and voila, you here on this forum.

C,

Keep the course.


----------



## knortoh

mls31 said:


> I guess the signs aren't always black and white.
> 
> Yep adult realtionships can be complex I guess and in my case my H was great at mixed messages - ultimately it had to do with a difficulty being honest with himself -
> 
> But you are correct the consequence is that you are living with a very shadowy figure who isn't really 'there' in the way you are -


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## knortoh

Feelingalone said:


> Knortoh,
> 
> Yes some of us men are really boys playing a role. Not intentionally, but being the man on the outside as society taught us but holding onto something from the childhood. In rough patches in comes out and when with the one you love, you hurt them by pulling away. I know of what I speak and am correcting myself. But it always takes two to tango and the other person usually pours gasoline on the fire - again not intentionally - but nonetheless true.
> 
> Thanks Feelingalone,
> I am sure that my H never set out to hurt me - but it does kind of make sense that he has been doing what he thought he should be and yet there was always something incongruent. It resulted in him having a 'hero' aura which I was in love with as much as the next person - but the reality of how he treated me was not actually that heroic....He suffered a lot of trauma as a child especially tricky relationship with his mum...
> 
> The weird thing is that I used to call him 'the secret agent' but I never for a minute thought he was a secret agent in the relationship - is that a type of blindness????
> 
> I am not sure of how I fuelled our demise - partly because he didn't tell me - he just withdrew - if I was guilty of anything I think it was not being persistent enough in trying to get to the bottom things when I sensed something wasn't quite right - other than that I have clear conscience. But even having said that it is very tricky to get the bottom of things when the person who you are trying to talk to is actively diverting himself from his own feelings ...what a mess. Do you mind me asking how you are 'correcting' yourself and whether you have established a more honest or congruent relationship with your partner or ex partner?
> 
> 
> 
> C,
> 
> Keep the course.


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## Corpuswife

knortoh...you were blindsided w/continued sex and cuddling in the AM. You were his comfort now he will be uncomfortable. 

Yes....they are torn. Even though they may not admit it, the pain becomes unbearable. I think usually a catalyst gives them the momentum to run. They may have been unhappy for awhile and have "thoughts" of leaving but then something comes up...a crisis (financial/work/kids/death) that puts them over the edge. The are unwilling or unable to deal with their feelings. It's too much.

Fight or flight. 

Then they tell you they are unhappy or not attracted to you or no longer "in love." You are shocked. 

They are still present but they "change." You get the mixed messages. Hugs/kisses/sex and then cold...A nice comment then anger that comes out of nowhere. Let's go do this...then they are disconnected. Let's plan for the future then they don't see a future.

You are left overanalyzing and walking on eggshells. How can I make this better? You start taking care in the way you look and present yourself. Ignoring his misbehavior for the most part as to not to give him a reason to leave. Pretending you are happy when you feel the cloud looming over his head. This is no small effort. 

In addition, relationship talks are difficult to begin. His mind is closed and only focused on the negative. You ask "why." No real answers here. He walks away...doesn't want to talk about it or deal with it. You are left alone to ponder and cry.

Finally, he mentions the divorce. Your stomach drops...here we go.
He wants out. 

You are left to wonder when or why. No questions asked because you don't want him to hurry. Maybe he'll forget? Time ticks on and no movement. Can you change his mind? Can you become attractive? Can you convince him otherwise? NO! NO! NO! 

The pain is too much for him. I have to save him and save myself. I ask "when" he is planning on divorcing? He doesn't know. I suggest a timeframe. I can't live like this...7 months.

We plan an unconstested divorce at the end of May. In June, I go to visit family, out of town, and come back with new energy. A spirit to save the marriage and do what it takes. I tell him..."I don't want to divorce. Our marriage is worth saving. We can't throw this away. I'd like you to join me in the fight." He's flabbergasted. He was looking forward to his way out.

Mid June he says he's contacting a lawyer the next week. My heart sank again. I thought he was gonna fight. We went out a few times..he asked me out on a "date." It was like dating cardboard. NO! NO! I bawl.

The next day, out of the blue, I suggest a separation. He gets back with me the next day and agrees. He'll be gone in 2 weeks. 

He starts to sleep in the guestroom. I no longer undress in front of him. I begin my LMBT. He initiates sex for the first time since this began. I turn him down. He wants comfort for what he is doing. This isn't going to bring him back. Let him feel pain.

He's gone in two weeks. My LMBT/limited contact journey begins.

Doesn't go as I had hoped. You know the rest of the story.

I know there are many on this board with very similiar stories. Know that you aren't alone.


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## knortoh

Corpuswife is there another woman in your case?

My separation/divorce journey began about 11 months ago when I asked my husband if he loved me after a partiularly trying day - and he answered "i don't know" then I said is there someone else and he answered "I don't know!" - 
in fact "I don't know" was his mantra for entire 11 months - even after he left the 2nd time we spoke on the phone and I said "I don't knwo means No, and he said no it doesn't it means I don't know". 

And he told me he was still confused - then about 3 weeks later he was altogether different with me and one time when he was picking up kids I asked him what was going on and he said "I don't have the feelings for you that I should" and I said oh so does that mean that we are getting divorced and he didn't answer me - 

I asked him then whether he's seen the girl that he's been infatuated with and who he swore he wasn't going to see when he left and he said he had seen her once and that she had called him but that she had nothing to do with our separation. That I just needed something to pin it on !

But when I then asked him whether he would be with her in 6 months he didn't say anything. That was the final 'emotional' conversation between us.....

I don't know maybe I get too hyped about her - maybe it's just a rnge of conflicts within him that can only seem to be resolved outside of his relationship with me - but it only makes sense to me that if he has been relying on me for sex and comfort he'll be keen to fill that gap ASAP. 

Thanks for sharing all your stuff - it is good to know I am not going through this alone -

do you feel bitter?


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## Corpuswife

No other woman! 

Regarding your question regarding the OW.."I don't know" means YES! In my book I would read it as that...he's either wanting or has a EA going on. Highly suspicious.

No, I don't feel bitter. I get a little angry sometimes as I don't deserve this. But, he's in pain. I hope he gets better.

I may be bitter, if I felt he was playing me the whole time with another woman on the side. Then....perhaps.


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## Feelingalone

Knortoh,

Correcting myself started by going to marriage counseling with my w. In individual sessions the counselor delved into the individual. So I started a lot of self discovery - soul searching. Through reading and counseling I found my true core issue. It wasn't pretty and was an emotionally draining experience to face childhold issues I didn't even know existed or how they manifested in my relationships with people.

Starting there I am kind of rebuilding myself using tools in certain books and what the counselor helped me with. The problem is that it takes time. It is learning to overcome old habits with new habits, etc. 

A newer honest relationship with my "partner" is starting to occur now. But most of my self revelation took place in the last 6 - 8 weeks. So it is at the beginning.

And don't think you didn't try hard enough. My w tried hard, I just wasn't "hearing" her. Why you might ask? Because of my core issues. What she believes are the issues were really the effect of my core issues. So even fixing "her" issues isn't a long term fix without resolving those core issues. Now she is resentful and angry because it took so long for "me to get it". 

But with patience, kindness and a firm yet gentle approach I believe I can rebuild with her what we had. It just takes time. Will it ever get back? No, I'm hoping it gets better than ever with her. Does that mean we will be together? No guarantees, but I'm not doing this for just her.

Don't know if that answers your question(s).


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## knortoh

CW please excuse me for taking up your thread 
Feelingalone
thanks for this - and I so much hope that you guys get there. What I hear in your post which is different from my situation is that you WANT to work it out....desire, volition, that's the key. My H is getting counselling to sort 'himself' out but has no desire for this to lead to US getting back together. If that is missing none of the other issues matter. SO in his case he has decided to deal with his pain by looking outside the relationship - of course I know that there is no 'happily ever after' for him - or for anyone really....


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## Feelingalone

Knortoh,

Remember this. He will have to address his issues first no matter what. That is a start. And I don't know means I don't know. I've heard that myself.


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## knortoh

Feelingalone, 
a few weeks ago your post would have given me comfort - but - he has kind of moved on from "I don't know" to "I know that I don't have the feelings for you that I should" and I believe that he has formed a strong EA with someone else - but I guess no one can see into the future I am feeling som much stronger the last week or so _ I am beginning to see what I want and beginning to feel as though I am more grounded - but he doesn't want to talk at all about "US" anymore - so I guess that's it?


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## Corpuswife

knortoh: This is "it" for now. He's not ready to reconcile and certainly his mind isn't on YOUR marriage but the OW.

Do what you can to move forward and get in a healthy place. It's a psychological adjustment. I was moving forward but always felt he'd turn around. Now...I have this sense that he won't in the near future and I am sick of hoping and waiting and praying. 

I need to make something happen in my life. Maybe you are ready for this?


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## Feelingalone

Knortoh,

You've got to quit asking about us. Those questions push him further away. Makes you sound needy and clingy to the other person. 

Listen to Corpuswife, work on you. He needs to work on him. In reality that is working on the relationship. Don't worry about there might be an EA. I know it is hard to do, but you just have to let that go. It is hard, experience talking here. By improving yourself in his eyes, you will drive a wedge through that in time.


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## Corpuswife

Alright gang!

I arranged a meeting with my husband. 

No longer am I waiting for the shoe to drop. That's done.

I've looked at homes today and found some good deals.

He was suspicous regarding my meeting..."about what" he asked.

I told him that we need to take the next step and I need to know when and how. He agreed.

Of course, since our prior meeting and the D word was mentioned and I threw in "Can I have permission to date?" He thinks I am dating someone (I'm NOT).

Now, I am moving toward the divorce and getting it started. I am sure he's thinking I have some boyfriend that is encouraging me to move forward. haha

He is like a robot on the phone. I told him that I wasn't the enemy. He has a big WALL around him now. 

Maybe this will shake him up. He's had control, time wise, over our relationship struggles. He decided he wanted a divorce. He decided he would agree to a separation. He decided to move out quickly and where. He decided to abandon his wife. All when HE was ready. I was a salmon swimming upstream.

Now, I decide to proceed with the divorce. We are going to lay is out on the table. We've previously discussed finances etc when divorce was mentioned in May. I want to make sure that gameplan is still in place. 

I will suggest meeting with an attorney ASAP and get the show on the road. Why wait?


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## knortoh

Corpuswife said:


> knortoh:
> 
> Do what you can to move forward and get in a healthy place. It's a psychological adjustment. I was moving forward but always felt he'd turn around. Now...I have this sense that he won't in the near future and I am sick of hoping and waiting and praying.
> 
> I need to make something happen in my life. Maybe you are ready for this?


CW 
I really think I am getting there as well - although I may also be delusional. This is definitely the best week that I have had in a very long time....
you are right this is 'it'. 

can I just vent for a minute however?

one of the things my H. does which is just completely infuriating is that he refuses to talk about "US" anymore but in terms of all the practical decisions (which he has completley and utterly opted out of) he emails me saying 
"we have to do...." and "we have to do that...." 

suddenly when there are real ( I mean practical not emotional) problems (like financial settlement, supporting our kids etc to be sorted out he is keen to remind me of "US". He is such a petulant boy with stuff.


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## knortoh

Corpuswife said:


> Alright gang!
> 
> 
> He was suspicous regarding my meeting..."about what" he asked.
> 
> I have done the same thing with my H. and he is nervous as hell - cause one thing he doesn't like anymore is talking to ME!
> 
> As for the dating thing isn't it weird? I honestly believe that one of the things that kept my husband saying "I don't Know" for so long was that he seriously can't stand the idea of me with someone else - it seems so weird to me that he can be fine with me knowing he has an EA with someone else - but that he also feels fine telling me that he hates the idea of me dating anyone (as if I would!)
> 
> just before he left the 2nd time (he said he wanted to think about things for 3 months) he said he wouldn't be seeing anyone and asked me if I would be - I just looked at him like he was nuts -
> anyway sorry I can't even really stand talking about his BS anymore - guess that's a good sign....
> 
> we don't deserve this - I am hoping that I am not too bitter in the end - I have this vision of me smiling and him around (we are not together) but it is all okay and I am holding onto that - oh yes - and trying to find a fulltime job...
> 
> all power to us....


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## Corpuswife

I had a dinner with my two kids (20 and 15 years)...they already know that the divorce is proceeding. I told them that this is difficult on all of us and we should try to understand and be patient with each other. 

I mentioned that I will have a difficult time and they will see me break down and cry for no reason. It will be sometimes over nothing major. It ok to breakdown and move through the feelings. I also asked them to step up to the plate....I will be working soon and going through a divorce and keeping up a house. I will need for them to do their part in chores and looking after things. I can't do it alone anymore. 

They are used to the stay at home mom/jack of all trades person. I have really taken care of business for years. I can no longer be the only resource here.

It was good to have a quiet moment to discuss our upcoming lives. It doesn't happen much with older kids as they are busy with their own lives.

I was talking to my D in the car today. She mentioned something about her dad and dinner. I started crying a little. It's sad to know I won't be eating with him again. It's those little things. She said "mom one day you may be friends and eat together...like some of my friends parents." I told her that it wouldn't be soon as my heart has to heal first to be friends. What a sad thing.


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## knortoh

These conversations are so sad - I've had them with my kids even though they are much younger...but it is all a part of facing up to what is going on for you all. And you are doing it so honestly. My 8 year said exactly the same thing to me - that he hoped that one day dad and I would be friends. But I'm with you - you can't do it while you are still in love with him and broken hearted. You're right it is just so sad.


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## Corpuswife

knortoh: I am sure my hubby would want to be my friend. In fact, early on in the divorce discussion 4 months ago...he asked about friendship. I said "no I won't be your friend. How am I going to be your friend?" He was heartbroken. I mean what the hell. 

Since, then I have mentioned that I can't guarantee anything. When he first approached me on this I was offended and hurt. I don't know about friendship. Not for along time. His loss anyway. I am a great person to be friends with loyal and honest and fun. So there...


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## knortoh

CW 
hope that you are feeling a little better - I don't know about you but my very sad periods are offset by calmer times now...

Same with my H I am sure that he thought that he would leave and I'd be sad but that we'd still be friends - and I think part of him is genuinely confused why this isn't the case.

I am willing to be friendly with him for the sake of kids - but friends? no not right now - in my mind that's exactly what he is saying NO to. I ran into an old friend of mine the other day and we had really interesting chat. When I told her my H had left she said 
"you're kidding you were two people who I really thought were meant to be together". 

Then she said " so he's a having a mid-life crises and you and the kids have to pay for it?" and said "yep"

me - "he told me he didn't love me and that he hadn't 'really loved me for 10 years" 

her "oh is that right?"

her - " I think love is just a red herring anyway - you're either mates or you're not" 

I have been thinking about this one alot


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## Corpuswife

Same here with the hubby. We have very similiar stories.

I have a sense of peace and some sadness but not like before. I realized it's done and I've done what I could. No regrets. This is how I've always lived my life.

I would have preferred to have him for the rest of my life. I have no choice. He will really be lost without me. He just doesn't realize it now. He is so focused on his "pain" and want to get rid of it. The marriage and I am his "pain." He doesn't realize that his pain isn't going away. The pain that is inside him is about HIM...not ME, not the marriage. He doesn't get it.

He won't get it, until I am gone completely and he still has the pain. After he sorts through the pain, figures out the cause, and deals with it, I expect a knock on my door.

I'm not sure if I'll answer.


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## mls31

It sounds like he will have regrets. And it's too bad he can't see that. You have been so patient, trying and loving through all of this. You deserve closure and happiness. 

I can relate to the friendship issue. My husband said the same to me. How can I be friends with the person who broke my heart? It doesn't make any sense to me. Maybe it helps them say that to ease their guilty souls.


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## Corpuswife

So many commonalities with the spouse that is doing the leaving. I hear stories, over and over, regarding how others have been in the same situation.

Blaming, excuses, wanting friendship, not wanting to work on the marriage, wanting to run away...it's amazing that he isn't the man that I thought he was. Maybe he is but the depression that he has is masking it. I don't know.

I was the closest person to my husband. The person that he had the deepest connection to....He's lost that connection. The one person that supported him that wanted to know what he had for lunch. The one person that cared if he got his hair cut and how it looked. The one person that he build a life and family with....He's tossed it as if he meant nothing. Now, I know he feels bad about this. I know he wished things would have been different. I know he's a good man that deserves a good life. 

He just never gave me a chance. By the time he was "unhappy" he said he had already tried. It's like going to a basketball game and the buzzer goes off. Too late! I showed up too late! He had already checked out. 

It was amazing how he checked out. I feel bad for the guy.


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## knortoh

Yes - EXACTLY - I remember my H. saying indiginantly that I would never know how he had tried!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Without ever telling me! At the smae time he said that over the last year or so he had been "giving less and less" - how is that trying??????????????

WHY do they wait until it is OVER to say anything - It just seems cowardly and unsophisticated - and so much about them -

and like you I am sure that I am the only person who really cares about my husband in the whole world (aside from the kids and his family) - the girl who is in love with him - loves the "hero" who he is at work - not the warts and all version that I know - 
when my H. came back he said "you must have felt as though I didn't value what we have?" 

me- "well YES"

if they value you it as they say they do why do they destroy it?

As there is another woman involved in my case it proabably isn't the same for you but I feel so isnsulted that he is happy to risk what I would have called 'everything' for ....???? what is it?


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## Corpuswife

knortoh: The OW will discover his flaws. He will discover hers. THAT is why the grass isn't greener. They are only getting "parts" of each other not the "whole."


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## knortoh

CW - I know that we both believe that we have been married to 'good' men. But the counsellor that I have been seeing over the period of the separation has to keep on reminding me that his behaviour isn't really consistent with the idea of the honourable person with whom I thought I was sharing my life ..

So it is the constant shifting between who I _thought_ he was and who he now appears to be. 

I know there some truism 'good people do bad things' - but this never sits quite right with me -

was wondering what you think about this conflict?

are people just driven by things outside of their control?

do we all sides to ourselves that we don't 'like' that come out at times?

why don't they have the energy, volition LOVE to overcomes this stuff???


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## Corpuswife

knortoh: Rightly so marriages SHOULD break up when there is abuse, or multiple affairs, or addictions. I'm not sure if SHOULD is the right word but the reason seems more excusable.

We are dealing with thoughts and feelings. We think our H should behave in the manner that we KNOW they are capable. Experience from our past. Maybe these type of feelings have never been present before for them?

Often, what we get is a H that is creating a new "world" based on feelings. They are being driven by feelings. At some point they reach a period of unhappiness, in which they are unable to work through or "deal" in a way that an true adult would deal. They aren't emotionally able to work through there feelings of unhappiness. 

Instead of exploring, discussing, and venting to make things better their feelings get stuffed inside....they ignore, put on a mask, and go through their day. Months or even years pass. One day, they get an offer from another woman. Or...a work crisis or family crisis gets added to their plate. More feelings arise. What do they do? They act out. They want out. They run. 

I believe all people do bad things. That is the nature of being human. It's how we correct our behavior that counts.

Think about it this way...like an IQ. A person with mental retardation with an IQ of 60. They will never have the capacity to have an IQ of 100. Can they improve their IQ...perhaps. But they will never be above average or average even.

Some people have high emotional intelligence. They acknowledge emotion in themselves and in others and use it appropriately. They can "deal." Others may be low in emotional intelligence. Still they may seek to increase this emotional gap, but never really have the capacity that is considered average or high functioning. 

It's all about capacity, in my thoughts, and what they are capable of....not necessarily about energy or love. They just may not be capable of dealing with their feelings. 

Does that mean...they will spend their lives running away or having affairs? Some may, but I also believe that eventually they may tire. Some may get into substance abuse. Some may engage in multiple affairs. As we all know...these are temporary fixes. There is no real thought behind these behaviors. When they run and find that their feeling follow them, they have no other choice. 

Many may learn some skills along the way (communication). It is my hope that my H figures things out for himself. I hope that he learns a few things along the way. Maybe he'll come back a better person. If he does, I don't expect him to have a high emotional IQ. That's ok if he doesn't, he's intelligent in many other ways. There will always be flaws. I have mine. 

Then again, he may not remedy his situation or do the work required. I say my prayers either way.


----------



## knortoh

Corpuswife said:


> knortoh:
> 
> It's all about capacity, in my thoughts, and what they are capable of....not necessarily about energy or love. They just may not be capable of dealing with their feelings.
> 
> Hmmm thanks CW - very helpful.
> 
> I think I've been having similar reflections. *Capacity*. That's a biggy. It would make perfect sense to me that my H. simply doesn't have a comparable capacity to deal with tricky or difficult or even intense emotions. He said he was "jealous" of the love I had for him - therefore he must have perceived it as something that he couldn't have - although I think he is hoping that the excitement, thrill promise of a new love will dispel that....
> 
> and also he has constantly said that he has been surprised by my "reaction" to the split -
> I never really knew what he meant because all the counsellors I have seen have said it's pretty text book - (didn't eat or sleep pretty much for 2 months ) fell into depression when he left 2nd time etc...
> 
> But I honestly don't think he anticipated that - and that's why he was assuming because we'd also been friends and always been kind and considerate to eachother that this would remain ongoing -
> 
> It is all starting to make some sense now.
> 
> I knwo our situations are different - but if you don't mind me saying we sound as though we are similar types of people (analytical, honest, open, straight, loving etc) who may have been married to similiar 'types' of men.
> 
> Was your husband a 'people pleaser?" My husband was very charming in an understated kind of way. My friends and family REALLY loved him -


----------



## knortoh

Sorry - also I just remembered another reason why I was blindsided by my H was because I always credited him with high Emotional Intelligence - and he does have amazing people skills - he's good in a conflict, wonderful with kids, however in his close personal relationships especially with women it is obviously ANOTHER thing altogether - still just digesting this one and why I wasn't more atune to it myself! 

Definitely a learner.

Do you mind me asking if you believe in unconditional love?


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## Corpuswife

Yes...my husband was/is a people pleaser. Loves to help people. He's an all around good guy. 

It's amazing how emotional intelligence is more than manners, good with people, and people skills. My H has all of those and is very skilled at them. He is well liked for the most part.

Emotional intelligence is about a deeper level as well. Allowing yourself to have emotions when appropriate. In a sense an high emotional IQ is "balanced." That is where things go awry...as long as his life was happy or he was feeling happy it was ok. When things started falling apart, with our son, who got into trouble. He couldn't express himself and started drinking more at night (when I went to bed). When the stock market was falling in Oct....he was wiped with emotions. He couldn't cry or cuss or vent much. I TRIED to get him to do these things but he was so pained and negative and angry (often unappropriately). 

Don't be too hard on yourself knortoh. I wasn't atuned either. I NEVER recognized that he was this way until a few years ago. I've known him for almost 30 years. Hindsight.

We had a pretty good run though. Knortoh, it does seem that we have some similarities with your H and ourselves. 

You ask the question of unconditional love? In my opinion you can definitely have it with your children. No doubt. I also, believe that I have it with my husband. I recognize that things could get dirty at any time, if he chooses. Yes. I might even end up "hating" him but I will never stop loving him (may not make sense). There will always be love there because of our shared history and children. No I won't stop loving him....unconditional I guess. I don't have any other word for it....


----------



## knortoh

CW thanks again.

I am having a big analytical time at present - after just grieving and feeling sad for so long.

For a while I stopped asking why because at the end it doesn't really matter I am still left with the consequences.

Okay so it is possible to be warm, empathetic, kind caring and still have an unbalanced EQ....that makes sense - it's counter intuitive though....

what sank the boat for him I think was 

1. turning 40
2. 'doubts' he's always nursed about us - based on his lack of love and life experince when we met
3. years of working with lots of women who were often attracted to him
4. desperately desiring other women but finding the idea of an affair morallly distasteful
5. the other woman picking up his vibes and returning them - being needy herself and responsive to his hero aura
6. working in a highly stressful workplace where he is the 'boss' 
7. recognising me getting sadder and sadder as he withdrew from me - seeing how he was hurting me - and genuinely not wanting to do this anymore. 

Aside from this he had a every damaging childhood (his mother suffered from schizophrenia) and I am now guessing that all of his relations with women are very tricky for him.

I have only just come to the realisation today that in his relations with women at work it was either a situation where they adored him - or - if there were difficulties he would find a way of getting them moved on - 
I have never ever thought about it until today but this is definitely the case.....

as for the unconditional love - I think I have it for him and my kids as well.

It's beyond actions or behaviours - it's about their soul 

But as we are living - love is not always easy often it is tough.

Also because he is behaving very badly in relation to practical matters I am very angry with him. Angry that he can't seem to access that decent part and 'do the right thing'. 

I like to think that even though we barely talk anymore I still try to respond to him with love - at the end that's all there is isn't it? 

once again thanks for all your reflections


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## Feelingalone

CW and Knortoh,

That has been quit an exchange of ideas regarding your H's and their issues. As CW knows you both are describing what I was doing with my w. I can tell you it is hard to break through that low emotional intelligence. And Knortoh, you are right (at least with me) that the sadder I saw my w get the more I went silent. Vicious cycle. Now I am slowly coming out of it. I'm making strides in it, but it is not as easy as it sounds or is for you and CW. For you both it is so natural. There is no magic pill to get me or your Hs there. There are times I fall back only to move forward again.


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## knortoh

Feelingalone - I have been reading your posts and 
if you don't mind me saying you sound way more emotionally intelligent than my fella - (not that he is really mine anymore). Even to find you way here and to be communicating with everyone as you are - sensible helpful honest - my guy just doesn't seem to be able to be honest with himself or with me - but then on the other hand haven't seen you in silent mode!!!!!!!!!!!

The other thing is I have been trying to scan this forum and trying read all the posts by folk who say that they are the ones who "aren't in love anymore". 

When I read them I get really scared and I know that this is no place to be short on honesty so I'll go ahead and say it -

It seems like there are just genuine cases where people commit for a range of reasons that on reflection aren't enough to sustain a lifelong commitment - I know that this is how my H is trying sell his situation to me -

life 'happened' and then he finally decided to make a decision. Now he didn't make this openly and honestly - he moved by stealth -

only moving out when I finally begged him to go

and then saying that he didn't see us as 'separated' only married but living apart.
and then finally deciding without telling me (which he promised he would) and me having to read his body language and deduce - which has been the entire pattern of this sad fiasco - not once in the entire 11 months of torture did he 'offer' anything - I always had to ask questions that I never wanted the answer to.

And then once he moved to this new 'place' where he was 'open' about it being 'over' he started this completely cold and distant and petulant mode of communictaing with me via email only - addressing me with the tone of a displeased supervisor! 

honestly he writes things to me like FYI V. fell over at school yesterday. FYI ! I can't tell you how much we would have laughed if one of us had written that to one another before -

to that end I have a slightly creepy feeling about things - as though he can't afford to let me in at all.

CW Sorry for taking up your post - and I don't think I have got to what I was saying - I think what I was pondering was do I invent layers of complications or is it simply a case of lovely guy - commited for wring reasons - knows can't make himself or me happy - wants out?

I know I am going over this stuff - but you know how it plagues you

cheers


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## Feelingalone

Knortoh,

Yes you never saw me in silent mode. And it is easier here for me since I don't care so deeply about anyone here like my w. That is my biggest hang up - don't rock the boat with the one you love. I am still working on my verbal communication skills with her in that regard. It is difficult because I don't want to mess up so bad that I get flustered when talking with her. I have written letters to her - no not sappy letters - just here it is. This is what I want - her. I've still got work to do on myself, etc. Addressed all her issues with me in the one letter. Now it is time to build back the trust. 

So yes, here it is easier for me. I appreciate the compliment though. Just wanted to let you know where I'm at. And yes he feels pain. I sure as hell did and still do, the pain of hurting the one you love the most.

By the way I believe in unconditional love. With a child it is easier than with your partner. With a child it comes naturally for most people. With your partner it is work since to truly love someone unconditionally you must give and expect nothing in return from that someone. 

I am just trying to learn to firm, gentle and caring in communicating with her.


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## knortoh

Feelingalone - keep on going - 
I too believe in unconditional love although I never dreamed I would be tested in such a manner! 
And I also believe that the truth always hits home -
maybe not when you want - but sometime -


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## Corpuswife

knortoh: I agree with you...I believe feelingalone is here and probably has the capacity to be emotionally intelligent! FeelingAlone...you probably didn't practice those emotional skills during childhood and didn't have the need to practice them until you were married with a kid. Maybe you were deficient...but you are improving and venting here (you seem to be and admitted that you have). Eventually, you may be able to open up at a deeper level to your loved ones. 

My H as also knortoh said...wouldn't be coming on a message board to vent and analyze. My H doesn't even do that with his few friends! 

We are all finding our way!

By the way. My H still hasn't contacted me with this weeks meeting regarding the divorce. Grrr. I am left waiting for him again. I'll give it another day and see what's up. I know he's contacted his counselor yesterday. He usually contacts her during a crisis mode. I suggested weeks ago that he might start attending on a regular basis and that I did and it helps. He said he "hoped" to. Ummm..who is in control of that "hope?" Maybe he decided to do more than "hope" or he's in crisis again. 

I feel like he's clawing his way out of this marriage. Everything is telling him that this isn't right. His body, his anxiety, his family, his friends....he's alone. His wife is now "dating" (not), and wants to get on with it! Probably a crisis. ho hummmm.


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## Feelingalone

I certainly hope so CW. Still get that uneasy feeling when around her at times. Sometimes I don't feel like I'm doing enough - I want to change immediately in my heart - but one has to de-program and re-program. I feel clumsy about it since it starts as practice, get into the routine of doing it always so it becomes natural. I know it takes time. Just hope she waits for it.

I imagine he is in crisis mode. You startled him big time with the dating thing. I'm sure he thought about the possibility of that happening, but you stating that took him way off guard. Maybe that will be the straw that breaks the camels back and gets him into dealing with his issues.

Keep on with the pressure, but also give it time to sink in. Quite a balancing act on that one.


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## Corpuswife

That dating things kills me....you know when you break up with someone after along while. You know they will move on but when they move on before you or it's in your face....you react and stir up feelings that you didn't know you had. After 24 years married...I have never given my H any reason to be jealous EVER! But hey....now IS the TIME!! I am absolutely sure that he's reeling over this....

By the way...this dating thing, for me, hasn't turned out the way I had hoped. I have to pay for my own dates, drive myself to the date, and have sex with myself. They say the single life is tough, but I wasn't expecting anything like this!!! (fyi: this is a joke for those that may not have been keeping up with my story).


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## knortoh

At least you know you are going out with someone you like!


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## Feelingalone

And not afraid to take them home to meet the parents. Good one CW.


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## Corpuswife

I really crack myself up sometimes!!


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## Corpuswife

Spoke to my H tonight. I had sent him an email regarding our D's disrespect and the fact that she played the "I want to live with dad" card for the first time. He supports me he said and will talk to her in the morning.

He FINALLY mentioned meeting. Said he has ALREADY met with the attorney regarding getting the ball rolling. I had originally predicted that he'd run to the attorney's after our 1st meeting last week. Silly me, I was thinking he was agonizing over this decision afterall when he didn't mention it to me.

I told him I want to meet, in person, to iron things out before paperwork is started. We have many things that we need to talk about regarding the divorce. He is only thinking assets and custody. I am thinking the details (moving clause/tax implications (exemptions)/life insurance/health insurance/etc). I gave him some examples of what we should talk about and he was like pure trust. He said "your not going to move in the next 3 years are you?" I said no, but who knows about us...I hadn't planned on divorcing 3 years ago! We need everything written down in order to protect us. He agreed. 

He also mentioned tax implications. I think I will need to meet with a tax advisor. He received a lump sum from his new firm upon hiring. The taxes are scheduled to be taken out over the next 9 years. He is trying to caculate that sum in order that he won't be responsible for the full payment of taxes on money that is 1/2 mine. Hmmm. I am not tax savvy but does this make sense?
When I get my 1/2 I will be responsible for my share of taxes...anyway on that half. Just thinking out loud.

Anyway, for me the phone call brought up sadness again. I hate this so much.


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## knortoh

Corpuswife said:


> I told him I want to meet, in person, to iron things out before paperwork is started. We have many things that we need to talk about regarding the divorce.
> Anyway, for me the phone call brought up sadness again. I hate this so much.


Hey Corpus - it really is **** all this stuff.
do you think it really is a great idea to talk this stuff through? Would email or just working through solicitors be easier on you?
I can see who you are and you are just trying to be open, honest straightforward and practical - but - maybe it will just be too painful at this stage? 
This is sad - but I think it is super sad because it is also stressful and the stress is being caused by someone who is supposed to help you get through the tough things in life - 

It is like one blow after the next isn't it?
Just when you think that maybe you are finding a sense of peace again .....

take care


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## Corpuswife

Well, I am meeting him in 45 minutes. In person, is best as it allows for converstion. We aren't enemies and I don't wish to be. We also don't fight. I need the details explained regarding the divorce division. It allows me to move forward. 

He seemed more relaxed and not defensive on the phone as he has been previously. We are meeting at a coffee house. 

I'll let you all know how it goes.


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## Corpuswife

Had meeting and have headache. He was pretty much his old self..likes the business talk. I gave him some food for thought. I'm pretty smart and detailed. 

Don't feel much like venting now.


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