# I cheated on my wife, please help me save my marriage!



## Cieran (Dec 2, 2012)

*UPDATED (Dec.7) I cheated on my wife, please help me save my marriage!*

This is going to be an extremely long read, so I am very sorry in advance! I will divide the post into 2 parts, 1 being the history, 2 being the indiscretions.

I am 41, and have been married to my wife for 14 years; we were high school sweethearts. We have 3 kids together ages 8,6, and 4. I know I am completely in the wrong and I am so sorry about what I have done to my wife and my kids.

I will begin by saying that for pretty much 13 of the 14 years I have been the best husband I believe I could be. I had a very successful career, I attained wealth and a terrific job, really early on and was very comfortable by my early 30s. My wife and I travelled frequently around the world, never wanted for anything material. Even having 3 kids, our children and us, never had need for anything. We were sometimes financially stressed though. On the surface, we have/had the picture perfect life; top careers, beautiful home, beautiful children, exciting life. 

Underneath the perfect picture, my sex life with my wife was/is far from ideal. I would describe myself as very passionate, emotional, sexual person. Yes I have a very strong sex drive and I know that is part of the problem. However, by contrast, my wife is very logical, non-emotional, sometimes cold-like. I have unfairly described her from time to time as an "ice-queen". We are both fairly attractive people. I have kept in shape as I aged and I look a lot younger than I am. I have always been attracted to her, physically and else-wise, and she to me as well. (by her words). However, she has never had much of a sex drive at all. She has always been career driven, and twice in our marriage, during a time of significant conflict with us regarding her work and my feelings/opinions, she chose work first, over me. This has always been a sticking point for me, one that I haven't really forgiven her for; another problem.

So as I said our sex life is sometimes okay to mostly a problem. I want to have sex a whole lot more than she ever does, and she will not initiate sex ever. I feel pathetic that I have to initiate it 99% of the time; as often times it's like begging for it. I feel dehumanized by doing it, yet I want it and all the while know I'm a slave to my sex drive, which makes it worse. I think in all our 14 years, she may have initiated sex less than 5 times! She has said she is attracted to me and that I do turn her on, and when we do have sex, she is completely satisfied. She has sometimes said that she loves sex when we have it, but she does not necessarily need to have it...at all sometimes! contrast this to the fact that I would have sex once or twice daily if I could. We have gone weeks not having sex from even the start of our marriage in our 20s, and I found that totally unacceptable (think of a young, successful, good looking 20 something going without sex that long!). Even more humiliating, is the countless times I will admit that sex for us amounted to me dry humping her leg while we lay in bed like a F&&*#ing dog, or even worse, having sex with her in bed, lying down from behind, and she falls asleep! I am going to come out and say countless times I've basically had sex with my wife, sleeping. (she started out awake). Yes it's completely pathetic, and I feel like total **** for it. It's a total beating on my masculinity and my ego, of which I know I could get what I needed from another woman, if I wanted to.

As I said as humiliating as this sounds, more often than not I have had to resort to leaving the bedroom because she didn't want sex, to go to the TV or computer and watch porn with masturbation as my only escape. This only worsened my problems as of course I became addicted to fantasizing about different women and what it would be like..etc.

Now I mentioned that my wife chose her career over me twice in our relationship. Once when she basically left me for what I'm guessing was a few months to study for her designation, mind you this studying included being with all her classmates 24/7, out to very late hours of the night, at bars to blow off steam, etc. I basically had no girlfriend for months. I was essentially alone and felt it. I told her how I felt; which was I thought she could spend more time with me as well during this important period of her life, rather than always and only with her classmates, as much of the evenings /nights were out, not necessarily studying. She didnt' agree, and to this day, says she would do the same again and that really hurts me.

The second time she chose career over me was 2 years ago. She decided that she wanted to do her EMBA at a very prestigious school. I implicitly told her that I could not handle 3 young children mostly on my own, and asked her if she could put this off to some later time, when the kids were a bit older and more manageable (they were like 5,3 and 1-2 at the time) Mind you the degree required her to be away from home and at the school which was in another city, every other or third weekend. Add to this that every other weekend she had class and meetings all weekend and throughout the week after work. So I hardly saw her. She works long hours at a very successful job, and would come home late, and eat dinner or not, and go straight to studying in her home office and if it wasnt' that she'd have to go out to meetings with her local work groups (other students in the area doing the same program). This lasted for nearly 2 years, all the while I was daddy daycare with 3 young children. I grinned and bared it for 2 years, and honestly I hated it and it hurt me very much that she would just do what she wanted regardless of how I felt and esp. that she said she would do it again, given the situation.

CONT'D next post of mine...


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## Cieran (Dec 2, 2012)

My problems began when I went on a work trip to Hong Kong / Macau 3 years ago and met a girl there, while going out for drinks after work, she turned out to be an escort. We messed around a bit (I was drunk), but I did not do the 'deed'. That was my first experience of any kind outside the marriage with another woman. I'll admit, I enjoyed having a very attractive woman dote over me. However, it was limited to just kissing, petting. However, this experience never left me and I felt tempted to be with other women since then. 

Well, fast forward to 1 year ago, while my wife was in the worst part of her EMBA, the busiest part. near the end, where I especially barely saw her! You must also know that due to her schedule, studies, work, our sex life was even worse than already a bad situation. I remembered the escort I met in Hong Kong/Macau and I decided that I would get an escort here at home. On one of her many weekends away I did it. I called an escort and I had sex with her.

I was already a very sexually frustrated and pent up person with a roaring sex drive, and call it immature, animal,whatever, but this experience was a tremendous release for me. I became very addicted to this feeling. Over the course of the last year, I cheated on my wife several times with several different women. Some were escorts, some were women I met over the internet that just wanted the same thing I wanted: sex.

Now as horrible as this sounds and as horrible of a person I was to do this, this is not all. As I told you, I am very addicted to porn; watching it,etc. This led me to video tape my rendezvous with my webcams, so that I could masturbate to them at a later time when of course I would be wanting sex, but my wife wouldn't give it.

And that's not all. I have had a friendship in the last year or so that bordered on romantic, but in all honesty, never went beyond an arm around the shoulder or hugging when greeting or leaving, with a female friend of mine, whom I admit I find very attractive and who is the polar opposite of my wife in terms of being emotional, passionate, and 'alive'. I did not cheat on my wife with this girl. However I did keep my relationship with her a secret from my wife, who knew who she was distantly, as I knew my wife would not take to my friendship with this girl kindly.

This all leads up to the inevitability that on my latest 'date' with my friend, my wife got suspicious while I was out, and went rifling though my computer, eventually finding pictures of me and my friend together at dinner or lunch etc. Worse yet, my wife also found my videos and pictures of my indiscretions with the other women. 
This has of course led to basically my marriage being in tatters. This just happened. I am basically sleeping in our house's rear attachment, far removed from my wife and kids. My wife and I are not speaking and when we do, it's her yelling and crying. I try to apologize and talk, but it's no good at the moment. She won't have any of it, and rightfully so.

I cannot repeat how sorry I am for doing what I did, and I know what I did was incredibly hurtful and a total betrayal to my wife. I don't know how I got here. My wife will eventually kick me out of the home or leave herself. I cannot imagine what this will do to the kids. I can't let that happen. 

I know she and people reading this will not believe it, and I know I was deceitful and a liar but I truly love my wife and want to fix this. I put all my life into my wife, my home and my kids. I admit the last year I've been a dog. I don't know what else to say.

I would very much appreciate some advice on what I could do to save my 14 year marriage to my high school sweet heart.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Was divorce ever discussed before the affairs ?

You found cheating on her easier than separation?


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

Not sure there's anything you can do - if I'd found videos of my husband screwing other women I'd be out the door without even a backward glance


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Seems you found a problem with a lock and blasted the door open with a pump action shotgun. And then said: "Gosh! The door's open! But I never expected a hole THAT size!"

Reconciliation? It's up to your wife.

Several woman? Several times? Several means any number over two. Exactly how many times over two? Does you wife know all the details?


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## lionsguy22 (Dec 2, 2012)

lionsguy22 said:


> Honestly that's going to be impossible to fix.
> Its not going to help but give her peace of mind and get Blood work for various diseases and give her the paperwork. Its the least you can do sense you were seeing working girls. This needs to be done ASAP. Even if you weren't having sex, she still deserves to know if you brought any disease into the house


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

You can't save your marriage...you killed it.
You might be able to build a new one out of the ashes...if your wife can forgive you enough to want that.

I wouldn't be able to forgive my H this...

Your sex life WAS horrible and no-one deserve to put up with that but it's never OK to have extra marital sex...ever.

Let her go... what a mess.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Other than getting tested for STIs there's really not much you can do. Get tested and at least let her know she's safe. Yeah I know, y'all haven't had much sex. But she doesn't know how long it's been going on. At least give her that bit of information. 

Get yourself into counseling. Let her know you're going. Offer to pay for her counseling too.


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## Cieran (Dec 2, 2012)

I had protected sex EVERY time.


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## Cieran (Dec 2, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Was divorce ever discussed before the affairs ?
> 
> You found cheating on her easier than separation?


Divorce was never discussed. She was happy in our marriage and totally career oriented.

I am an A personality type who thought I could make it work. I thought I could get around the sex part. I love her.
It's like I watched myself in the last year like I was watching a movie...I can't even put myself in my own shoes with it. 

I know people won't believe me, but I love her more than anything. it's super cliche now, but my indiscretions were purely sex, maybe ego..I don't know anymore.


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## Cieran (Dec 2, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Seems you found a problem with a lock and blasted the door open with a pump action shotgun. And then said: "Gosh! The door's open! But I never expected a hole THAT size!"
> 
> Reconciliation? It's up to your wife.
> 
> Several woman? Several times? Several means any number over two. Exactly how many times over two? Does you wife know all the details?


7 times, 7 women. never the same woman twice. she knows the details. when she confronted me I confirmed 7/several.


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## lionsguy22 (Dec 2, 2012)

Cieran said:


> I had protected sex EVERY time.


You know you can get STD even if you use a condom.
Also she doesn't know that you used a condom everytime. And its not like she can trust you.

You can still get stds like hpv and herpes if you use a condom plus any thing else that is transmitted through intimate skin to skin contact.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Well, from your side of the story you wife emotionally abused you for years by withholding sex.

You compounded it by cheating on her.

Cheating is never ok. Neither is emotionally abusing one's spouse.

I know you love your children. But other than that why would you even want your marriage back? If it was so filled with emtional pain for you, this is the time when you should really think about ending the marriage.

Fight to get 50% custody of your children.

Then if you want to be married, go find a woman who can actually show love to her husband and who has a sex drive.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You have to stop calling these 'indiscretions.' This is a searing stab to your wife's heart.

You already know that the solution to your problem with your sex life was to approach the issue together with your W (go to counseling, for example). You already know that what you did was marriage-killing.

You frame your behavior as a result of your mismatch with your W regarding sex, but I'm betting that you really, really enjoyed those other women. I'm betting that you weren't just getting a physical 'release.' I'm betting that it was exciting and passionate and sexy, and especially that you only stopped because you got caught.

If I think those things, I'm also betting that your W is thinking them. The hurt she is experiencing is only imaginable to you if you put yourself in her shoes. Have you asked yourself how you would feel if you discovered that she did what you did? If so, then ask yourself what she would have to do to try to win you back. Maybe that's the first step toward figuring out if you have any chance at all.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Cieran said:


> I had protected sex EVERY time.


There is STILL a risk (although smaller) of giving your faithful spouse an STD even if you DID have protected sex every time with an affair partner.


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## Cieran (Dec 2, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> You have to stop calling these 'indiscretions.' This is a searing stab to your wife's heart.
> 
> You already know that the solution to your problem with your sex life was to approach the issue together with your W (go to counseling, for example). You already know that what you did was marriage-killing.
> 
> ...


I very much appreciate your input.
I booked an appointment to see a marriage counsellor myself in 2 days (the earliest I could get). I would very much like to go together, but she won't.

I know what I did was probably marriage killing. But in some ways, the marriage had parts of it killed earlier on I suppose.

I will be completely truthful and forthright with regards to your third paragraph, even if it damns me more:
Definitely, all of the affairs were a sexual release to me.
Most of the affairs were purely a physical thing for me, of course I enjoyed it, but it didn't stay with me.
Some of the affairs were exciting. Mostly, just in the way that it' feels to be with a different woman, esp. a very attractive one at that. i'd say it was a physical excitement. again, it didn't stay around. i felt that for the moment. I am not trying to justify it in any way, but I don't really know any man who wouldn't get 'excited' being around a very beautiful woman.
Only 1 of my 7 affairs was passionate imho, and mostly due to the fact that the girl was gorgeous and the sex was extremely great, so I can understand the term sexual compatibility after that.

I can't say that I only stopped because I got caught. The only thing I can truly say I had been intending to possibly continue was my friendship with my girl-friend.
Yes, you're possibly right, who could say?, given more time, sexual frustration, I might falter again. All I know now is that with my marriage at the bottom of an endless pit, I would do my very best in all I can promise to not do that again, if it meant I could keep my marriage to my wife.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

> And that's not all. I have had a *friendship in the last year or so that bordered on romantic*, but in all honesty, never went beyond an arm around the shoulder or hugging when greeting or leaving, with a *female friend of mine, whom I admit I find very attractive and who is the polar opposite of my wife in terms of being emotional, passionate, and 'alive*'. *I did not cheat on my wife with this girl*. However I did keep my relationship with her a secret from my wife, who knew who she was distantly, as *I knew my wife would not take to my friendship with this girl kindly*.
> 
> This all leads up to the inevitability that *on my latest 'date' with my friend*, my wife got suspicious while I was out, and went rifling though my computer, eventually finding *pictures of me and my friend together at dinner or lunch etc.*


Along with the videos (permanently burned in her brain) this is what is possibly the ultimate dealbreaker. Given she's low sex drive she might "understand" at a certain level NSA sex. But for BWs emotional attachments is what kill them inside: Secret "friendship", pictures of lunches, dinners, "dates"? You had a complete double life, a side GF. This was a full EA. Many marriages would't resist "just" this. *You did cheat with this girl*. Complete betrayal, destruction complete. It's not you have no any chance. It's up to her but better start getting a better grasp about your "friendship". Stop minimizing it. Minimize nothing. It won't help you regardless the outcome.
BTW, you friend is not friend at all. Females friends don't go dinners or dates with married men. It's ridiculous. She is the OW. The main, most dangerous one. Your wife knows she the real danger. Any betrayed woman will tell you so.

Lets' face it. You found you wife didn't give you sex enough (so you got it elsewere) not intimacy enough (so you got it elsewhere). I highly suspect you not only "met your needs" elsewere, you were punishing your wife. The "friendship" was an "EA in revenge". The ultimate one.

Also... my I ask why do you want back a wife who's likely withold sex even more, be more unavoidable at an emotional level and will put you even lower in her priorities? Let along the anger. Do you think she's going to change, to make out of it a "wake up" call?

Google emotional affair, visit Shirley Glass website, fill the quizz, purchase two copies (one for your wife) of Not Just Friends, from the same author.


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## Cieran (Dec 2, 2012)

Acabado said:


> Along with the videos (permanently burned in her brain) this is what is possibly the ultimate dealbreaker. Given she's low sex drive she might "understand" at a certain level NSA sex. But for BWs emotional attachments is what kill them inside: Secret "friendship", pictures of lunches, dinners, "dates"? You had a complete double life, a side GF. This was a full EA. Many marriages would't resist "just" this. *You did cheat with this girl*. Complete betrayal, destruction complete. It's not you have no any chance. It's up to her but better start getting a better grasp about your "friendship". Stop minimizing it. Minimize nothing. It won't help you regardless the outcome.
> BTW, you friend is not friend at all. Females friends don't go dinners or dates with married men. It's ridiculous. She is the OW. The main, most dangerous one. Your wife knows she the real danger. Any betrayed woman will tell you so.
> 
> Lets' face it. You found you wife didn't give you sex enough (so you got it elsewere) not intimacy enough (so you got it elsewhere). I highly suspect you not only "met your needs" elsewere, you were punishing your wife. The "friendship" was an "EA in revenge". The ultimate one.
> ...



yes I can see that I lived a double life. You may not believe me, but I seriously was hoping to find what it was that my 'friend' has that I enjoyed, and bring some of that into my marriage. I don't understand why a man couldn't have a friend who was a woman, so long as he didn't sleep with her, which I did not. 
I already have committed to my wife that my friendship with the woman is over.

Your suspicions are probably right, and when you word it that way, as I read it, I feel it. I have never forgiven her for some things and I hated how she made me feel, second to her work and a slave begging for sex. it belittled me.
but while I feel some anger regarding those topics, I seriously did not do any of it to punish her. I don't know why I did it other than that I was sexually frustrated and feeling pretty low. 

I want my wife back for many reasons, off the top of my head:

- i truly do love her
- we have had a wonderful life (outside of sex) together
- we have a wonderful family/kids together, which both of us are very involved parents, me more so admittedly, as she spends more time on her career.
- she is all i know for so long. call it comfort, whatever, but it feels like home.

i could say more, but my mind isn't exactly clear atm

and you bring up a good point. after this, she will be even colder with me undoubtedly, as well as sex being done for.

you know how women have vibrators that give them pleasure? well I need that, because I have a hard time getting it at all in my marriage, with respect to sex. you're right, I'm not getting the sex i need, and the sex i get, is rarely intimate, it's mechanical, though pleasurable. if i could have a mechanical robot/machine/android that provided me the intimacy and pleasure in sex, that for me would be like a woman's vibrator, then I would have that. 

if I could separate out the sex from this I would, but it is a basic need. excluding the sex, I really felt my marriage was amazing. Like I said, as I sit here, I feel like I've been out of body, watching myself in a movie.


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## roostr (Oct 20, 2012)

The way I see it is if your wife was withholding sex and putting her career before your marraige, she is just as much as fault for destroyint the marraige. I dont know how anyone can remain faithful with a marraige like that. Why would you want to hang on to her?


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## jameskimp (May 8, 2012)

You should have put your feet down BEFORE the affairs. You should have expressed how unhappy and resentful you were or even threatened divorce. You decided to take the coward's way out.

Now, it's too late and I'd think you'd be happier if you were divorced. Your sex life will not approve and the resentment you hold for your wife putting her job first will never go away.

Sure, it will be hard for the kids but I think you two staying together would be even harder on them.


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

Maybe you should let the marriage go. 

Your wife is very hurt from your affairs. 

You also have a high drive and she has a low drive

You will most likely cheat again, as she was abusing you and withholding sex whether she knew it or not. But instead of communicating this, and having an intervention, you chose to cheat.

Basically theres wrong done on both sides of the marriage. 50% hers for withholding sex and 50% yours for not communicating just how much you were hurt by it and potentially close to the affair. 

the affairs though are 100% on you and your poor decision. 


I just don't see this marriage recovering, theres too much crap to go through, and its gonna be hard to tell her shes gonna need to get more sexual without her feeling like your blaming her, and I doubt she'd even want to after what you did.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You say that your marriage was good except for the sexual dysfunction. If so, what was it the female 'friend' was providing that was so gratifying? It was something you had to hide so it was definitely a danger to your marriage. So, either that was testing the waters & moving toward sex or there was something else that you felt your wife wasn't giving you & you were finding that with the OW. You were going on dates with her while you were married, but not having sex. So, what was it?

(Also, I have to say that I'm struck especially severely recently by the sheer sadness of stories like this for the children who are involved. Not only are they denied intact family lives, but their parents become shells of themselves. What a life for the poor children.)


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

Well my friend, you went skydiving and forgot to put on a parachute. There's nothing to do now but watch the ground get closer and think about your loved ones. You can flap your arms, that might delay the inevitable a bit. Don't worry about balling up or anything silly like that, it'll all be the same when you hit.

Good luck.

T


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

Your marriage is dead. I'm surprised that you guys lasted as long as you did. You should've just divorced her and moved on with your head held high. Instead, you chose to cheat and made an even bigger mess of things.

(BTW, I was in your position with a wife that didn't care about sex and I chose not to cheat. Unfortunately, she DID like sex - just not with me. ARE YOU SURE THAT YOUR WIFE WASN'T CHEATING ON YOU?)


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

cieran, the problem is, your wife doesn't need you. She's bee perfectly happy having the kids and surviving on her career for a long, long time. Many women are that way - marry the guy to get the financial security and the kids and then just coexist, since she doesn't need the sex.

You're in a bad spot, because she doesn't need you or want you.

I guess all I can offer you is to swear off all sex until you either divorce or get her on board to fixing the marriage (and yes, that will include her going to therapy so YOU can be heard).


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Honestly, you're better off divorcing and learning what else there is out there. She's not right for you.


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## Cieran (Dec 2, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> You say that your marriage was good except for the sexual dysfunction. If so, what was it the female 'friend' was providing that was so gratifying? It was something you had to hide so it was definitely a danger to your marriage. So, either that was testing the waters & moving toward sex or there was something else that you felt your wife wasn't giving you & you were finding that with the OW. You were going on dates with her while you were married, but not having sex. So, what was it?
> 
> (Also, I have to say that I'm struck especially severely recently by the sheer sadness of stories like this for the children who are involved. Not only are they denied intact family lives, but their parents become shells of themselves. What a life for the poor children.)


I will not deny that I was attracted to my friend. She is extremely pretty, funny, etc. However, I did not cheat with her. Not even a kiss. Our hugs were hello and goodbye ones. Any arms around the shoulder or waist were for picture opportunities. Outside of that, nothing. I am fairly certain that had I actually wanted to, it would of/could of easily have happened. I wasn't looking for a replacement. I honestly was trying to find a spark that I could take to my own marriage to make it work. Maybe suggest a few things to my wife, I don't know. My now ex-friend was very precocious, funny, outgoing, attentive, passionate when talking to me,etc. I guess, more of a doting kind of female-stereotype. Where I would classify my wife as the overachieving, female executive stereotype. I promise you I was not 'testing the waters' with my friend. At all times, I had always intended to make my marriage work or at least keep it going.

Yes, you are completely right in your assessment of my children. No one is more sorry and sad to what I've done to my family and it's now likely or possible affects to my children. They have grown up with a fantastic life so far, and this could scar them for life and ruin very promising lives they have yet to come. 
I am doing everything I can to stay in the home, and to keep my wife there. We have shielded the kids so far completely from what has happened, but my eldest already kind of suspects something is wrong with my wife and I. "Why is daddy sleeping in the attachment?" I told them I have a bad back. I don't think he believes me.

I was never looking to upgrade. I have always held my wife in high regard. It was honestly just no strings sex. 
I do worry that her lack of sex drive is a sign I've been missing all these years of not really being intimately attracted to me anymore or ever, or that she may have had or having an affair. I have never suspected her of having an affair, although she is the type that if she did, I would likely not know, as she is the perfectionist, totally organized, prepared type.


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

Cieran said:


> I will not deny that I was attracted to my friend. She is extremely pretty, funny, etc. However, I did not cheat with her. Not even a kiss... ...I promise you I was not 'testing the waters' with my friend. At all times, I had always intended to make my marriage work or at least keep it going.


*Famous last words, as the man draws in a deep hit from the crack pipe; I never intended to get addicted.*

T


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## lionsguy22 (Dec 2, 2012)

I like how he refuses to get a STD test. Pretty much only useful thing her could do for her. Because he wore a condom EVERY time. He was explained to you can still get STDS might not manifest for months. Also he's a liar, wife isn't going to believe him that he wore a condom. The one thing he could do for her , he ignores. The counseling for him. She wants no part of it. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

All the cheating was 100% your fault. You cannot fault your wife for you going out to screw other women while still married. However, your wife is definitely to blame for a share of the marital problems that the 2 of you had up until you decided to cheat. I'm sure you know all of this already. I get that you felt emotionally abandoned. But this conversation should have happened awhile ago and you should have put all the cards on the table about whether she wanted you or the chance to climb the corporate ladder. 

What does your wife say about this? Does she want to reconcile? IMHO, I see potential problems here if you do reconcile, because things probably will not get better. She'll probably use the affair to guilt you into letting her continue on as is before or worse. Is your wife the kind of person to demand "compensation" or to get revenge on those who wrong her? If so, don't be surprised if she has a revenge affair. 

Bottom line is if your wife has the mentality of an executive (or a CEO), then I think this marriage is toast. She'll bully you for whatever she wants while you feel the guilt over what you did. This should have all come out well before the infidelity ever happened.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

I agree with you OP. The marriage was probably dead before this. You guys were just going through the motions of a married couple but not acting like one. You bludgeoned the dead horse repeatedly...but the horse was dead.

It wasn't just your betrayal, by your accounts, your wife wasn't really that in to you anyways. Trust me, I know the feeling. I know you love her, and you want to try to save the marriage, but there's nothing to save (dead horse remember). As earlier stated, you can try to build a new one but it's entirely up to her. Right now her trust in you is zero.


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## Cieran (Dec 2, 2012)

Is one time no strings attached sex considered an affair? Cheating yes. I would make the distinction between the two. Not saying any are right.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Cieran said:


> Is one time no strings attached sex considered an affair?


Did you tell her before you did it and she agreed to it? No? Then it's cheating. There's no difference between cheating and an affair to a betrayed spouse.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Cieran said:


> Is one time no strings attached sex considered an affair? Cheating yes. I would make the distinction between the two. Not saying any are right.


If you want to define 'affair,' then the standard, general definition would say that your one-offs with prostitutes were not affairs. BUT, your dates with your girl-friend did, in my opinion, constitute an affair. This relationship was a secret, second emotional life for you with another woman. So, a betrayal definitely, and an emotional affair.

That being said, I will tell you that you elicit a lot of sympathy from me. I think the way your W has treated you regarding sex and her career ambitions add up to emotional cruelty. I can't imagine treating the man I love that way. Given these circumstances, your marriage wouldn't have lasted without some sort of counseling intervention, in my opinion.

Your extracurricular sex and EA have made that moot, though. You've lost any leverage you had to get some help for your W's issues with sex & moved the discussion to the next desperate level. You've now made the discussion more about your betrayal of the marriage than her mockery of it.

You say you want to save this. The only chance for that, I think, is to get the two of you into deep counseling for all of your issues. You definitely need an objective third-party interlocutor to even speak to one another at this point.

Is she willing to talk at all?


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## Hope Springs Eternal (Oct 6, 2012)

Cieran said:


> Is one time no strings attached sex considered an affair? Cheating yes. I would make the distinction between the two. Not saying any are right.


Cieran, there's no difference between no-strings-attached sex and cheating. Having a relationship outside your marriage is infidelity. You came to this board with a story and questions, but for you to get the most out of the advice you'll get here, you may want to cruise around and look at some other threads, get a handle on some of the nomenclature used nere, read the "newbie" threads, etc. 

The fact that you don't understand your "friendship" as an emotional affair is telling. There's so much depth to all this, and you've just addressed the tip of the iceberg. Go deep, and learn what you can from the people here. Most are reasonable, many have vast experience, and you have a lot to gain from what you can find here.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Cieran said:


> However, I did not cheat with her. Not even a kiss.


Complete delusion. You don't get it, at. all. You don't have to physicaly cheat to cheat. It's not more than a (false) mental boundaire you choose because you refuse to be acountable. Not far different than Clinton defense. Think about your mother doing it at your father's back.

If you find out your wife was dating a secret friend (OM), doing the things you did with him, thinking on him the way you think of OW, feeling what you feel while with OW, the anticipation... imagine you read your wife's journal describing OM-secret friend with the terms you described here OW. Do it.

I highly encourage you to *write down your story with OW* with all the details and the emotions, then simply *change the names, the genders, the characters*, then, get the photo album and look at her, close you eyes, play the movie.... and start throwing up.



> Is one time no strings attached sex considered an affair? Cheating yes. I would make the distinction between the two. Not saying any are right.


You "relationship" with OW (EA) fits more the popular notion about what an "affair" is (always sounds too glamurous to me) than NSA sex. You know what? It's cheating, it's complete betrayal, it's crossing marital boundaries. Just different flawors.
You are not "reading" what you don't want to read becasue it fits your previous beliefs which obviously ease any guilty feelings you "should" feel.
Many, many marriages end because what you had with OW (better start thinking on her as such). Ask to any family lawyer.


> My now ex-friend was very precocious, funny, outgoing, attentive, passionate when talking to me,etc.


What kind of single woman behave this way with a married man? Would you like you daughter behave this way, being the dirty secret of a married man, the source who fill this man emotional needs on his wife's back?

The infatuation is so obvious. OW is idealized to the extreme while ignoring the huge flaw.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Your denial about EAs are not so much a misunderstanding about narratives and previous beliefes than self induced by your defense mechanisms to deal with cognitive dissonance.
Google it.


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## louhazosc (Dec 3, 2012)

You're going through a desperate phase right now and not seeing things clearly. The fact that you two were high school sweethearts leads me to believe that you haven't had to go through break ups in your life time. Compound that with your career and you really haven't had too many dealings with rejection.
So after all this time this is your first real break up and you will do anything to keep it together. You feel like you can't make it alone, you've always had her there in one form or another.
So in your mind you've created this idealistic relationship and that everything is wonderful or can be with you two.
Take a minute and re-read your first post and read it as though you were an outsider and the second post you made didn't exist. You were in an un-happy marriage. You were not happy. You and your wife didn't talk about it or work on it. That's the problem with marrying your high school sweetheart - you don't through through love and loss and learn how to communicate.
So you guys never discussed your unhappiness, you strayed away and now here you are.
It is brutal, I get it, but take a minute and really really think. What will your marriage be like 5 years from now if you guys work it out? Do you honestly think it would be any different and you guys can be happy together? 
OK - so my wife had a stupid drunken cheat when we were brutally fighting one night. Did I forgive her? Yeah, working on it. Why? Because almost every moment of our 5 year marriage/8 year relationship was complete happiness. Please don't judge - there were 100s of other factors involved.

Think about what it'll be like. Dude, you cheated for a reason. Hell, I might have too because I'm also too much of a wuss to break up so instead you did everything to end it outside of filing for divorce. Don't think you did? You left files on your computer that don't sound like they were that hard to find. C'mon now.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

Cieran said:


> Is one time no strings attached sex considered an affair? Cheating yes. I would make the distinction between the two. Not saying any are right.


I doubt a semantics discussion will get you anywhere at this point, but what do YOU consider an affair? I'm curious.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

louhazosc said:


> Think about what it'll be like. Dude, you cheated for a reason. Hell, I might have too because I'm also too much of a wuss to break up so instead you did everything to end it outside of filing for divorce. Don't think you did? You left files on your computer that don't sound like they were that hard to find. C'mon now.


:iagree:


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## Cieran (Dec 2, 2012)

Coffee Amore said:


> I doubt a semantics discussion will get you anywhere at this point, but what do YOU consider an affair? I'm curious.


OKay I know that being truthful will only help me to better solve my own issues and problem so here goes:

I would consider an affair where: a) you have on-going sex with a person that you are attracted to (a physical affair) or ; b) you are in-love with someone else, or something akin to being more than just infatuated. (As I've now learned, this is an EA)

I might be deluded and in denial about an EA with my friend, and I am begining to think that there might have been seeds of that there. BUt I swear it was just a good friendship. Would it be any different if she were ugly and I wasn't attracted to her? I would consider it a huge bonus to my friendship that she was also 'eye-candy' I mean, to speak truthfully, I don't think there is a problem with looking. I don't think about it and I don't want sex from her. I definitely appreciate her looks though.

I know I am wrong. All I'm saying is that I wasn't looking to upgrade, replace my wife, go on a journey with another woman, etc. I had a good friend who was very different from my wife, and much more like myself, and yes I had a series of no-strings attached sex with women I paid to pretend to love me and fake great intimate sex with me. I completely understand that my NSAs were cheating. I feel like a total ******* for doing so, but if I had to define what I did and why, that was why. I did notmake this decision or temptation lightly, I struggled with my feelings and hurt, and temptations for years and years before I faltered.


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## Cieran (Dec 2, 2012)

louhazosc said:


> You're going through a desperate phase right now and not seeing things clearly. The fact that you two were high school sweethearts leads me to believe that you haven't had to go through break ups in your life time. Compound that with your career and you really haven't had too many dealings with rejection.
> So after all this time this is your first real break up and you will do anything to keep it together. You feel like you can't make it alone, you've always had her there in one form or another.
> So in your mind you've created this idealistic relationship and that everything is wonderful or can be with you two.
> Take a minute and re-read your first post and read it as though you were an outsider and the second post you made didn't exist. You were in an un-happy marriage. You were not happy. You and your wife didn't talk about it or work on it. That's the problem with marrying your high school sweetheart - you don't through through love and loss and learn how to communicate.
> ...


WOw this really helps me. I think you are right. I dated other girls before I married my wife, but I never had a serious relationship or bad breakup before my wife. I have never had to deal with serious loss or break up in a relationship ever I think.

Well outside of the sex, we have been for the most party pretty happy, I think. YOu are right though, if I were to think 5 years from now, would we be intimate? Would I struggle with my sex drive again...I would think, probably. I am waiting for the definitive Real Doll to come out and solve my problems...
I guess I did take the easy way out and turn elsewhere. I could've/should've worked hard at trying to address her intimacy/sex issues, then making a move based on that. Well it's all too late for that, and I do wish I did that in hindsight, because after all, my NSA sex was only for the moment and means nothing to me now.

I am hoping she will forgive me, I am hoping to get help for my addiction to porn and NSA sex. I'm hoping I can keep my family together and be happy again. I'm hoping she can learn to love me and want to be intimate,etc.

YOur last paragraph really strikes me though. It may be that I did do those very things to test the limits of my marriage and my wife with some kind of subliminal 'on purpose' or as another posted had said, to punish my wife. When I truly think hard on these points, I'm not sure I can outright deny it. I just don't know. It's both quite possible. INitially , I didn't even care if she found the videos/pics, until she did, then I regretted it.

I know alot of people are going to villainize me and rightfully so..but if only you knew the whole me, the 13 years I was looked up to as a model father, husband and man, by friends, family and co-workers,etc. I just don't know how the hell I fell so low. I do feel like scum, like some *********. But I swear that is not the real me. IF only you could understand what I say manytimes is that it's like I'm watching some drama TV movie about my own life.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Cieran said:


> I would consider an affair where: a) you have on-going sex with a person that you are attracted to (a physical affair) or ; b) you are in-love with someone else, or something akin to being more than just infatuated. (As I've now learned, this is an EA)


Ok, great! So now your wife can go out and screw every guy she wants, right?

Cos, hey! it's just a one-time deal with each guy.
:rofl:


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

Cieran said:


> I would consider an affair where: a) you have on-going sex with a person that you are attracted to (a physical affair) or ; b) you are in-love with someone else, or something akin to being more than just infatuated.


I understand what you're saying, but the root of an affair, one night stand, and sexual or emotional relations with another human falls under the broad category of cheating, and cheating is the thing that tramples the soul of the betrayed spouse.

_(I haven't read back through these past few pages, but why are we arguing semantics here?)_

T


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Because he wants to get out of being called a cheater, so his wife will take him back after she quit him. For cheating.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

Cieran said:


> Is one time no strings attached sex considered an affair? Cheating yes. I would make the distinction between the two. Not saying any are right.


If you're going this route, just divorce and move on. I gave my wife the option, truthfully if she would have taken it up we would not be married today.

Might have stayed with her for the short term but eventually I would have bailed. I would have just used that to say, well you cheated too then let's call it quits and I can go bang girls left and right, bye.


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## louhazosc (Dec 3, 2012)

Cieran said:


> WOw this really helps me. I think you are right. I dated other girls before I married my wife, but I never had a serious relationship or bad breakup before my wife. I have never had to deal with serious loss or break up in a relationship ever I think.
> 
> Well outside of the sex, we have been for the most party pretty happy, I think. YOu are right though, if I were to think 5 years from now, would we be intimate? Would I struggle with my sex drive again...I would think, probably. I am waiting for the definitive Real Doll to come out and solve my problems...
> I guess I did take the easy way out and turn elsewhere. I could've/should've worked hard at trying to address her intimacy/sex issues, then making a move based on that. Well it's all too late for that, and I do wish I did that in hindsight, because after all, my NSA sex was only for the moment and means nothing to me now.
> ...


Great, glad you read it and heard it. I'm also glad you read that and please don't worry if other people are calling you a cheater or not. You know what you did and only you know how you feel about it - if other people want to give you a scarlet letter then let em.
I have NEVER been one to believe in what your subconscious mind drives you to do or not do but it's more like you create this fictitious situation in your head or false sense of ego like you said with having those files on your computer. At the time you felt like "Yeah, I'll show her" because you were unhappy sexually and maybe you thought in some weird alternate universe type of irrational way it was you're way of showing her and you didn't even care. Then you saw the real reaction and reality hurts. 
Yes, it's brutal.
As far as you're marriage goes - I don't know you and I don't know her so I can't say and I'm not going to judge you or her and say "Oh, I'd never take you back"
People might think I'm nuts for taking my wife back after a drunken cheat one night but I have my reasons and only I know exactly what really happened and what was going on. Same with you.
However, you guys have years to backtrack on. The fact that you guys didn't communicate your issues years ago is the real tough hurdle here.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Cieran, did you have affairs to get sexual relase or to punish your wife for refusing your needs?:scratchhead:

This kind of punishment is a bit 'odd', as only you know that the other person is being punished. 

If your wife had been physically unable to have sex due to a medical reason, would you have still cheated on her?


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## Cieran (Dec 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> Because he wants to get out of being called a cheater, so his wife will take him back after she quit him. For cheating.



No I don't want to get out of being called a cheater. I did cheat. It's not okay what I did. I cheated several times. even worse, than just one time mistake. However, I would not go so far as to say I had an affair on my wife.

Affair to me denotes some sort of physical and or emotional attachment. Mine was definitely physical, but I was not attached to the person I was having sex with. In some ways I felt like I was a stranger myself, having sex with a stranger. I did not even identify it with myself, the man I really am. It was like a pseudo or alternative me. 

I am not trying to get out of being called a cheater, but I am trying to get my wife and marriage back.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

I don't why it matters whether what you did is cheating or an affair. Kind splitting hairs here. You broke your vows to her. That's what matters. 

I would think it's very hard for her to get over this. It's not some drunken one night stand. You're a serial cheater. And she has seen video evidence of your sexual encounters. It's one thing to imagine such things, but to see it with your own eyes burns those images in your mind. I remember a betrayed husband who used to post here a lot (morituri is his posting name) who said seeing his wife's video of her having sex with the OM completely ruined all chances for a reconciliation. As much as he loved her, he could not get over what he saw.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I think the discussion about the meaning of the word 'affair' is a red herring & is at cross purposes. From a linguistic perspective, the word 'affair' is indeed generally understood as you have defined it, Cieran. The word 'cheating,' however, is not equivalent in meaning to 'affair.' So, from the general language point of view, the sex with prostitutes did not constitute affairs, but were definitely cheating. That all being said, there is specific terminology to TAM, so often the general understanding does not hold.

No matter what, my sense is that you are holding out hope that your 7 sexcapades were not affairs & therefore sex only & no emotional attachment & less of a betrayal of your wife. 

All I can say is that the sheer number of them & the planning that you did (as well as the videotaping....) would negate any lexical/semantic edge you might gain. You can call them whatever you want, but they will blow your W's mind in any case.

And for what it's worth, I think you should reconsider your declaration of love for your W. Before you went off the rails, she treated you very badly in a very basic area of marriage. Can you really compartmentalize that?


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## Cieran (Dec 2, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Cieran, did you have affairs to get sexual relase or to punish your wife for refusing your needs?:scratchhead:
> 
> This kind of punishment is a bit 'odd', as only you know that the other person is being punished.
> 
> If your wife had been physically unable to have sex due to a medical reason, would you have still cheated on her?


Okay I'm again going to think hard and answer as truthfully as I can, even though I expect to garner more anger at me, esp from women/wives.

Up front,my desire to have the encounters was purely on the basis of sexual frustration and release. But, I soon found out that it wasn't even the release only, as I could just as well jack off to porn and fantasize, which I do frequently anyway. It was the entire act of really being with a beautiful woman, desiring her, smelling her perfume, feeling her long hair brush on me, her skin, her voice, her wanting and eager for sex (yes I paid for this 'fake' behaviour), her passionate and intimate in our lovemaking. It was all that. It was the experience, even if it was just for a brief time, that I became addicted to. I in no way cared about who that woman really was, her personality, identity,etc. If I could pay to have a 'Total Recall', sexual computer simulation ingrained into my mind that felt real at the time and as a memory, then I would likely have done that instead. But that technology doesn't exist, and I honestly wish that a good porn, my hand and some lube would be enough, and it was for years, but somehow it eventually wasn't, but I thought it was. 

If my wife were physically unable to have sex, then I'm pretty sure I would still have cheated. and moreso even, because at least now, my wife does still have sex with me, just no where near as much as I would like, and not as intimate as I would like.
If she were unable to, I would've likely though, asked her permission to do so to fullfill my needs and promise that it were NSA.

that hypothetical situation you asked me does remind me and this is going to sound completely F&&%^ed up, pretty much guaranteed some women on this board to hate me, but I have fantasized before about asking my wife to let me or help me pick someone for a threesome or even as just a sex partner and only for that. It sounds really bad, but it was just a fantasy okay? I never did it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Cieran said:


> I would not go so far as to say I had an affair on my wife.


So, like I said, your wife is now free to go out and hook up with whomever she wants, as long as she doesn't get attached, right?


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## theRaven (Nov 16, 2012)

I'm sorry if I'm not offering anything new or insightful but I just wanted to express my opinion on your problem.

Prior to your affairs, I do believe that she had wronged you and treated you in a way that was not sufficient for a happy marriage. I can understand your feelings of anger and belittlement with your wife. I would feel the same exact as you if I was in that situation. 

I do not blame you for your feelings, and the problem is not your higher sex drive. The problem is how you reacted and the choices you made. And despite all the good you've done in the marriage and all the times you stood by her during her selfish decisions, you have earned the most distrust and caused her more pain than she will ever feel. And perhaps she will be able to bury this incident and convince herself that you still offer her a life where all other needs are met. But like others have mentioned, do you even want to be with her? Even if you weren't caught, and she didn't become an extremely hurt and bitter person, you would still be left with the same problem that led you here.

Also, its noble for you to stick it out for the kids but it is my opinion that anything you manage to salvage will not be enough for your children.. I think its best for both of you to move on. Even if you can work through this instance, there isn't enough there to keep you happy.

It's good that your going to counseling. Not just for your marriage, but yourself. You know you have issues and problems, and you know you've done wrong, so good for you in recognizing this. Regardless if your marriage survive this or not, you have things within yourself that need addressing.

Also as sort of a side not about your co-worker/female friend. I personally don't see that relationship as an EA but I think you were walking on thin ice. The fact this is even up for discussion says something. I think it could have very easily progressed into one if you weren't careful with your boundaries.

Good luck. I hope your children don't take the brunt of this.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

So you want an open marriage? Nothing wrong with that as long as both parties agree to it. But with all your problems, an open marriage will only end up in a huge mess when someone falls for the OM or OW.

You and your wife are not ready at all to have an open marriage. Go on any of those boards and they'll tell you the same. Except for the parasites who look for marriages in trouble to gain free sex.

Been there, thought about it but luckily the good people on those boards talked us out of it. Oh, I got more than my share of private messages for guys who wanted to hook up with my wife. And a ton of pics that made me pretty sick and some that just made me go is that a human or not? Don't even go there unless your marriage is rock solid.


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## Cieran (Dec 2, 2012)

Coffee Amore said:


> I don't why it matters whether what you did is cheating or an affair. Kind splitting hairs here. You broke your vows to her. That's what matters.
> 
> I would think it's very hard for her to get over this. It's not some drunken one night stand. You're a serial cheater. And she has seen video evidence of your sexual encounters. It's one thing to imagine such things, but to see it with your own eyes burns those images in your mind. I remember a betrayed husband who used to post here a lot (morituri is his posting name) who said seeing his wife's video of her having sex with the OM completely ruined all chances for a reconciliation. As much as he loved her, he could not get over what he saw.



okay it is splitting hairs. i'm sorry. 
jesus, serial cheater. i'm glad you called me that, because it really stings and brings the point to me. i honestly feel even worse now. 
i don't know what to say. I reversed the situation in my head as some ppl have suggested, and yes it would ****ing kill me if i watched my wife having sex with another man, let alone several.. but if we had sexual dysfunction and I was aware of this, then what can I say? I would be very hurt, but aren't we more than just sex?
it's a super irony for me. i try to seperate the two, as we are way more than just sex, and yet sex is so basic and primally important. 

i am trying to understand what I did and why, in order that I can correct it and change. I'm not trying to excuse what I did. I need to know why I did it and how to stop it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Have you read His Needs Her Needs?


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Cieran said:


> okay it is splitting hairs. i'm sorry.
> jesus, serial cheater. i'm glad you called me that, because it really stings and brings the point to me. i honestly feel even worse now.
> i don't know what to say. I reversed the situation in my head as some ppl have suggested, and yes it would ****ing kill me if i watched my wife having sex with another man, let alone several.. but if we had sexual dysfunction and I was aware of this, then what can I say? I would be very hurt, but aren't we more than just sex?
> it's a super irony for me. i try to seperate the two, as we are way more than just sex, and yet sex is so basic and primally important.
> ...


It sounds like you didn't just make a decision one day to build a separate sexual lifestyle from your W. It sounds like you had years of frustration and hurt that you reacted to with a ONS with an escort. This wasn't just a one-time thing, though, because you enjoyed being with a beautiful woman; you enjoyed the whole experience so much that it opened the door to another one. And then now you're aware that this possibility exists. You can have this physical, sexual experience with a beautiful woman who acts like she appreciates you. You like it and do it again.

So, you didn't start out to do this, but it evolved because it was pushing some buttons that you wanted to have pushed. You may not have known when you tried it that that would happen, but it did.

The EA with your friend speaks to a different issue, I think.

In all cases, you can understand how you got where you did. You can try to analyze why you got there. What you will never understand probably is why you chose the solutions you chose for the problems you had.


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## Cieran (Dec 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> So, like I said, your wife is now free to go out and hook up with whomever she wants, as long as she doesn't get attached, right?



no. i would not want her to cheat on me. an affair would be even worse in my eyes.

yes it's all wrong. I just think an affair is even worse, consider your mind and heart are into it.

i read some other situations on this forum now, about where the WW or WH are having an AFFAIR, and get discovered and they are torn between the OM/OW and the BH/BW, debating to reconcile, or to separate,etc. I have none of these issues. I am not torn to anyone else but my wife. I do not want separation in anyway if possible. my heart and mind are with my wife, but my senses are not, but I wish they were.


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## Cieran (Dec 2, 2012)

Well I definitely appreciate all these responses. The spectrum of responses has definitely helped me understand more.

I am scared to be honest. I am scared that some of you suggest I might actually be happier ending this marriage and finding someone new. This is really scary.

I am also scared that my wife will revenge cheat on me. or have an EA on me and justify it, because of what I did. If that were to happen, I don't know what I'd do. this scares me because in this light, I can see how I would consider the possibility that it would've been just better to end it. Not to be double standard or anything, but I have been a very good husband to my wife. Not that anyone deserves to be cheated on, but there is absolutely no reason why she should have an affair on me. I am not being arrogant here.
I am not saying I deserved to have cheated on her, I am saying however that I have problems that she helped cause. I'm partially broken and that is part of why I did what I did. Yes I made the decision..Yes I'm an a55hole..etc. god...i know I am a terrible human being...i just couldn't help it...

but you know, i have been reading many other threads in this forum about EAs,and affairs, and to be honest, much of that also applies to my wife's behaviour. I really don't know. I really want to know if this is the case. but i'm not really in a position to be asking her these things now am I? i am truly screwed...


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

> This all leads up to the inevitability that on my latest 'date' with my friend, my wife got suspicious while I was out, and went rifling though my computer, eventually finding pictures of me and my friend together at dinner or lunch etc. Worse yet, my wife also found my videos and pictures of my indiscretions with the other women.


That there is probably the marriage killer. 

Did you at some level perhaps want her to find these?


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## Cieran (Dec 2, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> That there is probably the marriage killer.
> 
> Did you at some level perhaps want her to find these?


when you and someone before you asked me that question, i would initially answer no, but when I sit down to think about it, I didn't even really hide them. they were where she knows I keep all of my porn. I thought about it, and I didn't even care if she found them, when I saved them and kept them, but now that she actually found them, I do absolutely regret it.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

Cieran, let me pose a question to you.

If you found pics and vids of your wife sleeping with another man, or other MEN. Would you have given her a chance to reconcile or would you have booted her out without a second thought?

Me, I would have sent her flying out the door as fast as possible, so when she gave me a chance to reconcile I was thankful for it. But I realized that she had every right to kick me to the curb because I would have. My wife gave me a chance, I didn't ask for it because I knew I didn't deserve it.

How about giving your wife time to digest everything and decide what she wants to do. You owe her that much, if she wants to divorce then agree to it. If she wants to R, then STOP SLEEPING WITH OTHER WOMEN.

Talk to your wife (if R is the route) and let her know what your needs are. I want sex XX times a week, if she ways she's only willing to do X times a week, tell her you'll agree to it as long as the 2 of you can work on maybe getting to XX times a week. If she agrees, then work from there.

BTW, you're going to have to meet her needs also, can't just take and don't give anything back. But I work, help around the house, blah, blah, blah. Talk to her and ask her what she's missing from you, what more you can do to meet her needs.

Communication, compromise, more communication, try to meet each others needs as much as possible.

If one or the other one says I can't meet your needs and there is no discussion, well it's pretty plain and simple, time to move on.


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

Where you keep all of your porn? And she knows that?

WOW! Ever stop to think that she might feel you do not appreciate her? Maybe she has a low sex drive knowing that she is competing for you against porn stars.

The term "in the fog" is appropriate for your defense.

Please be kind, and let her know it was not her fault. Then it would be wise to allow her a peaceful divorce. Be a good ex...
good exes often are better than poor spouses.

Maybe you could also offer her some mercy and let her know about this forum. It is a godsend for those of us that have been betrayed.


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

Cieran said:


> They were where she knows I keep all of my porn.


You keep porn? As in porn that you save to your computer? (I don't mean the ones you made).

What is it with some of these marriages, I'd be embarrassed if I saved porn and my wife found it. Is that not an issue anymore?

T


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I think you've come full circle with this thread. You want some concrete help on how to save your marriage. For my part, I think you need some serious counseling for yourself because you need to understand why you want to save it. And then, you need to find a way to get your W to talk to you. This last may be the hardest part.

Good luck to you! (I really mean that.)


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

Cieran said:


> Not that anyone deserves to be cheated on, but there is absolutely no reason why she should have an affair on me.


:scratchhead:

How can you be so sure that she hasn't already done so? She had the opportunity and she's put her career ahead of you and the kids. I can see her having an affair on you to get ahead in the dog-eat-dog corporate world. 

And yes - you do sound very arrogant.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> but you know, i have been reading many other threads in this forum about EAs,and affairs, and to be honest, much of that also applies to my wife's behaviour. I really don't know. I really want to know if this is the case. but i'm not really in a position to be asking her these things now am I? i am truly screwed...


Discuss..

Are you on speaking terms ?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> :scratchhead:
> 
> How can you be so sure that she hasn't already done so? She had the opportunity and she's put her career ahead of you and the kids. I can see her having an affair on you to get ahead in the dog-eat-dog corporate world.
> 
> And yes - you do sound very arrogant.


Or how about having an affair for revenge? Or just to try to use it to 'fix' herself? Or because Cieran left her so broken she drifts into an affair? (And yes, that does happen, I know from my own experience.)


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## louhazosc (Dec 3, 2012)

Hey C,
I know I've been posting a lot on this but support's a big thing.
So I personally raised an eyebrow on the computer comment with her knowing where you keep your porn...
Man, that right there in and of itself is a marriage issue. 
If you guys were both OK about then again, who am I to judge. Personally though I would be so surprised if she really was OK with it even if she told you she was. Just my opinion.
Now if she did have an issue with it and never told you she did then that's on her. 
Now, you weren't happy sexually and you didn't fully communicate that properly...properly is the key word.

Getting into my own life - after I found out my wife had that one mistake it all came out. ALL of it. Things I did 5 years ago that she resented me for, things I wasn't happy about, and on and on. 3 months later we're still doing it - talking about things that weren't right with us. I had NO idea these things were there - she held back...a lot! Just played ostrich. We all do it.

OK - so I know none of this is helping you in terms of fixing anything and we're all kinda being Monday morning quarterbacks about how things should have been done. Just tryin to let you know we've all been there in one form or another.

Yeah, you got some demons you need work on. The whole porn addiction isn't helping. You gotta head that one off and soon.

If she's open to talking at some point the big thing is figuring out how you guys got there and let it all out, both of you. Be honest. It sucked to hear my sweet little wife tell me she resented me but I was a complete D-bag and mean. I needed to hear it.
Oh an empathy - learn empathy.


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

Cieran said:


> I am also scared that my wife will revenge cheat on me. or have an EA on me and justify it, because of what I did... ...I have been reading many other threads in this forum about EAs,and affairs, and to be honest, much of that also applies to my wife's behaviour.


Well Cieran, let me assure you of something, if your wife has never cheated on you, and if you two do stay together, the likelihood of her being receptive to the advances of a charming man are much more likely now. So you see, the game will now shift, while you may have been the one who cheated, you're now the one who needs to be vigilant.

*Promise you'll come back here if this happens.*

T


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> No matter what, my sense is that you are holding out hope that your 7 sexcapades were not affairs & therefore sex only & no emotional attachment & less of a betrayal of your wife.


Not only that. He's doing exactly the same with his "friendship": He removes the physical aspect of the emotional affair therefore he's not having an affair, the betrayal is also downplayed:
The emotional attachment is dismissed.
The way he idolizes OW is dismissed.
The "dating" behavior (dinners, lunches...) are minimized
The lying both by omission and by action (I have no doubt you lied to your BW in order to have those "dates") is simply ignored.
The huge, flaming red flag, of the secrecy is ignored.


> yes it's all wrong. I just think an affair is even worse, consider your mind and heart are into it.


So you are trying to save face until the mirror: affairs are things that bad people does, you are not bad people therefore you don't have affairs. The fact is if you simply chose to put some boundaries to do your "things". Removing the emotional attachment (hookers, hookup sites OWs) make you feel better about yourself the same way it does removing the physical aspect from your secret, completely inapropiate "friendship".


> but when I sit down to think about it, I didn't even really hide them. they were where she knows I keep all of my porn. I thought about it, and I didn't even care if she found them


Punishment? I believe you are more than angry at your wife, your actions show a lot of disgust, contempt and even hatred towards her. It's probably the most passive-agressive-affairs-in-revenge I've read lately. JMHO


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## mochamom (Nov 28, 2012)

Based on what you just said... let her go. Get some help for yourself and try to be a good father to your kids. You are sorry you got caught...not sorry for what you .did


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## Cieran (Dec 2, 2012)

CH said:


> Cieran, let me pose a question to you.
> 
> If you found pics and vids of your wife sleeping with another man, or other MEN. Would you have given her a chance to reconcile or would you have booted her out without a second thought?


I would be very hurt and angry. Devastated. Disgusted. Very pissed off. I admit, I would likely boot her out that night i discovered it. However, if I could have time to calm down, and I could be confident that she would not do it again and come to me when she is having problems, with my guarantee that I would do my best to address them, then I would reconcile with her. I do love her. However, you are right that it would change alot. Realizing this, I'm F*cked now. To have gotten to the point where cheating happened, I now realize that there was alot of wrong in our marriage we ignored or brushed under the carpet.


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## Cieran (Dec 2, 2012)

Lovemytruck said:


> Where you keep all of your porn? And she knows that?
> 
> WOW! Ever stop to think that she might feel you do not appreciate her? Maybe she has a low sex drive knowing that she is competing for you against porn stars.
> 
> ...


No it's not like that. I keep my porn quasi secret, however, it's not hard for her to browse the drive and find XX and videos etc. Its not something I publish, nor throw in her face. However I know she is a very smart person , probably always knew where my **** is. 

I have never compared her to a porn star. Never. All I want is for her to try when we have sex. To show genuine intimacy and want it. that doesn't happen. Trust me, a man or a woman can tell when the sex is real and strong, and not just mechanical.

And fyi, she was this way long before and during when I ever started turning to porn for escape.


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## Cieran (Dec 2, 2012)

Tony55 said:


> You keep porn? As in porn that you save to your computer? (I don't mean the ones you made).
> 
> What is it with some of these marriages, I'd be embarrassed if I saved porn and my wife found it. Is that not an issue anymore?
> 
> T


are you ancient? what man does not have porn?? for decades men (married or not) stashed Playboys'/ Penthouse magazines, etc. away, porn on your computer is the modern equivalent.

embarrased about porn??? wtf?
I grew up with the advent and wide spread of computers and technology along with the internet. I worked in the tech industry for ages. 

the internet grew because of porn. the heaviest traffic sites in the world are search engines and porn.
porn is one of the biggest industries in this world.

now i'm not saying porn is exactly healthy, and it can and does have adverse affects...yes i am an example of that.

but i'm sorry I can't agree with your critique on me regarding having porn. this is 2012.


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## Cieran (Dec 2, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> I think you've come full circle with this thread. You want some concrete help on how to save your marriage. For my part, I think you need some serious counseling for yourself because you need to understand why you want to save it. And then, you need to find a way to get your W to talk to you. This last may be the hardest part.
> 
> Good luck to you! (I really mean that.)


thank you alt Dame. your posts have been extremely helpful.


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## Cieran (Dec 2, 2012)

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> :scratchhead:
> 
> How can you be so sure that she hasn't already done so? She had the opportunity and she's put her career ahead of you and the kids. I can see her having an affair on you to get ahead in the dog-eat-dog corporate world.
> 
> And yes - you do sound very arrogant.



you are entirely right. in fact the more threads i read here on this forum about disengaged wives, low sex drive..etc. the more my worries rise as all the signs aare there for years...

you are probably right. I wouldn't be surprised if she did already have an affair on me. I would definitely like to find out, but good luck with that. esp since what i did.

I'm sorry if I sounded arrogant. I'm trying to console myself because quite frankly I feel like ****.


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## Cieran (Dec 2, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Discuss..
> 
> Are you on speaking terms ?


no we are not speaking per se. we are like common tenants in the same building. no hi no bye, but ackknowledgment and maybe basic communication to keep the house going, kids, etc. it is no longer anger and tears tho. it is very civil. I hope we are making progress towards a possibility of R and not actually settling and moving away from a R.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> Cieran, did you have affairs to get sexual relase or to punish your wife for refusing your needs?:scratchhead:
> 
> This kind of punishment is a bit 'odd', as only you know that the other person is being punished.
> 
> If your wife had been physically unable to have sex due to a medical reason, would you have still cheated on her?


But knowing that he was punishing her could have given him a rush and helped him take back a lot of the power that she took from him with years of rejection.

The human mind and ego are very strange things indeed. I can see this happening.


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## Cieran (Dec 2, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Or how about having an affair for revenge? Or just to try to use it to 'fix' herself? Or because Cieran left her so broken she drifts into an affair? (And yes, that does happen, I know from my own experience.)


yes i fear this. i know i was wrong first (or at least the first one to get caught) 
but, 2 wrongs don't make a right. if she has a revenge affair in anyway it will only justify and validate everything I have done wrong in my cheating.

I was wrong, she would be wrong...it's all wrong. game over period. 
i never embarked to wreck my marriage or find someone else. i wanted to ****ing GET OFF! more than just suzie palmer and her 5 sisters.

i know karma comes around, and if it does, i guess deserved it.


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

Cieran, this is coming from one wayward to another: you do not sound at all remorseful for the pain you have caused your wife. I told another wayward (a wife) that she stabbed her husband in the back and has changed who he is fundamentally. You've done the same to her. 

What I cannot figure out for the life of me is how you are getting sympathy from the people here?! Is it because you are male? I was told over and over and over I was "rewriting" my marriage. And you know what, I think you are too. 

Why are you complaining about how cold your wife is when you have had not one, not two, not three but SEVEN sexual indiscretions. What have you done to help her TODAY? Stop focusing on YOURSELF and worry about HER.

Do something to make her life a little easier TODAY. Please.


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## Cieran (Dec 2, 2012)

louhazosc said:


> Hey C,
> I know I've been posting a lot on this but support's a big thing.
> So I personally raised an eyebrow on the computer comment with her knowing where you keep your porn...
> Man, that right there in and of itself is a marriage issue.
> ...


i didn't flaunt my porn in her face. i kept it secret, to myself, for my eyes only. what i meant is that it's not hard to look at drive D: see all the folders and see X folder..lol with pics and videos folders in it. she was snooping into my own computer, she has her own computer, and she snooped into my files. yes i deserved it.

i know she knows. through our marriage, she has been the one to lightly snoop into my mail, bills, desk,etc.. now and then, while i never touch her stuff period.


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## Cieran (Dec 2, 2012)

AnnieAsh said:


> Cieran, this is coming from one wayward to another: you do not sound at all remorseful for the pain you have caused your wife. I told another wayward (a wife) that she stabbed her husband in the back and has changed who he is fundamentally. You've done the same to her.
> 
> What I cannot figure out for the life of me is how you are getting sympathy from the people here?! Is it because you are male? I was told over and over and over I was "rewriting" my marriage. And you know what, I think you are too.
> 
> ...


let me ask you this?
I had ****ed up royally this last year yes.

but what about the previous 13 years of marriage before I ever cheated??? i think untill you have had 13 years of being married to a beautiful woman, yet sexually limited like a 12 year old virgin video game nerd 90% of the time. sex is extremely important to me, extremely and tied to that passion and intimacy. 

I have to say, I am bloody ****ing sorry for what i've done. I feel like total **** for it. i am in a haze most of the time, going to work is like being a zombie for most of the day. I can't eat much, etc.

yeah i did rewrite my marriage and forever change my spouse. i ****ing regret that. but my marriage was not perfect to begin with. it needed rewriting, but just not my writing as i ****ed up royally.


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## Cieran (Dec 2, 2012)

Tony55 said:


> Well Cieran, let me assure you of something, if your wife has never cheated on you, and if you two do stay together, the likelihood of her being receptive to the advances of a charming man are much more likely now. So you see, the game will now shift, while you may have been the one who cheated, you're now the one who needs to be vigilant.
> 
> *Promise you'll come back here if this happens.*
> 
> T


just great.


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## Cieran (Dec 2, 2012)

Acabado said:


> Not only that. He's doing exactly the same with his "friendship": He removes the physical aspect of the emotional affair therefore he's not having an affair, the betrayal is also downplayed:
> The emotional attachment is dismissed.
> The way he idolizes OW is dismissed.
> The "dating" behavior (dinners, lunches...) are minimized
> ...


I disagree. Until you have endured 14 years of what I did, then your talk is cheap.
If I were always a disgusting pig, I could've cheated any time during our marriage! 

i got a terrific job out of university, made it up all the ranks by 30, had a fantastic job. I had money, was young, plenty of opportunity to cheat, plenty of options. I stayed dedicated to only to my wife. there were many occasions through the years, a flirting friend, a co-workers advances, a direct report willing to go the extra mile to get advancement, trust me, these things happen over the course of over a decade. I shut them all down and turned them away without ever a hesitation.

I promise you I am very sorry I cheated, and I deserved to get caught.
If my wife were sexually intimate, i mean like initiate more than less than 1% of the time and be equally engaged in bed, regularly with me, or in fact EVER, then I will DELETE ALL MY PORN, NOT WATCH IT AND NEVER CHEAT AGAIN.
my porn and cheating were/are totally sex based.

and yes, i don't sound sorry but I am very sorry.
in fact in the most terrible way, my cheating did teach me how dysfunctional and dead my marital sex was. part of why i got addicted to it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Cieran said:


> just great.


Many BS's have the thought of a revenge affair go through their minds. Whether or not it's the right thing it's there. And many act on it. The % is actually pretty high.

To a person who is devistated about their spouse's affair, a revenge affair feels like it would even the playing field. A person who is cheated on is reduced to feeling like absolute dirt.. they are garbage that their WS threw away.

Some BS go to the point that they think that the only way to get back their self esteem is to beable to prove that they are not garbage by having an affair.

When I found that my husband cheated with 10 women (This was in the first year of marriage so no he was not doing based on me being a bad or depriving wife.) I had over-powering desire to go find someone to have an affair with. He told me that if I did the marriage was over.

My response to him was WTF, you sorry SOB... you distroy me and then think you have the right to make such a proclamation. I never cheated. Sometimes I still think I should have. To this day, 12 years later, I think that it might have done me a lot of good. Yea there will be people here who beat me up for saying this... save your words. 

You were ‘man’ enough to cheat on her. So now, if you want to recover your marriage you need to be man enough to deal with whatever she does. 

To her right now your marriage is over. She will not consider it cheating as your marriage is over.. to her. 

You opened the flood gates. You cannot now complain that the water is rushing in.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Cieran said:


> I disagree. Until you have endured 14 years of what I did, then your talk is cheap.
> If I were always a disgusting pig, I could've cheated any time during our marriage!
> 
> i got a terrific job out of university, made it up all the ranks by 30, had a fantastic job. I had money, was young, plenty of opportunity to cheat, plenty of options. I stayed dedicated to only to my wife. there were many occasions through the years, a flirting friend, a co-workers advances, a direct report willing to go the extra mile to get advancement, trust me, these things happen over the course of over a decade. I shut them all down and turned them away without ever a hesitation.
> ...


You have every right to be very upset that your wife withheld sex on your the way she did. She was abusive.

IMO you have every right to use porn. Porn does not replace human touch. 

But usually when someone wihtholds sex there is a reason. The reason had to be addressed and it was not. Year after year it was left to fester. You probably know now that the way to handle it was to tell her that either she work with you to rebuild the passion in your relationship or you would leave.

This all reminds me of kids when one comes crying to me and says that the other hit them, took their toy, etc. My reponse would be so what did you do? Go back and solve your own problems or you are both going to your rooms for the day.

That's life man... either you both solve your problems or you are screwed.

She was wrong. Now you are wrong. You have now lost the credibility with her to address the sexlessness of your marriage.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

My suggestion to you is that you get some books and read them.. they will get you to a point of knowing what to do quicker than drawn out counseling.

Start with "Surviving and Affair" by Dr. Harley. Then look at the books linked to in my signature block below for rebuilding a passionate marriage... they could also be about how to build an affair proof marriage. 

Don't tell your wife that you are reading these books at first; read, learn. Calling Dr. Harley might be a good idea as well since it sounds like you have the money for the phone consulations.


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> My suggestion to you is that you get some books and read them.. they will get you to a point of knowing what to do quicker than drawn out counseling.
> 
> Start with "Surviving and Affair" by Dr. Harley. Then look at the books linked to in my signature block below for rebuilding a passionate marriage... they could also be about how to build an affair proof marriage.
> 
> Don't tell your wife that you are reading these books at first; read, learn. Calling Dr. Harley might be a good idea as well since it sounds like you have the money for the phone consulations.


This a million times! 

Look, I totally know where you are coming from OP. When I met the om in my case, I was STARVED for affection and attention. And I continued having sex with my husband because I wasn't gonna stop getting mine lol. But he rarely hugged me spontaneously, kissed me, talking to him was like talking to a rock. We had sex twice a week like clockwork and coparented and that was IT. That just isn't enough for me but when I brought it up, he would tell me "this is what happens when you've been married this long." 

But, I hurt him so badly. I risked everything we have worked for and I never sat him down and said "I'm leaving if we don't fix this." I'm lucky that he is trying to work past my betrayal. 

Get the book Ele suggested. We are following the program, I have sky high boundaries, we spend 10 to 15 hrs a week together alone. That time can be awkward at first but we are learning to like being together again. When he triggers or rages, I sit quietly. I do not get defensive, sometimes I hold him if he lets me. Because it isn't about me, it's about him. 

Btw I didn't mean to offend. I get very passionate (obnoxious). 

Good luck!


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## Kanga (Sep 5, 2012)

Cieran, 

I want to share my experience with you, as there are some similarities with your story. I am 41, married for 20 years, 3 sons aged 8-14. My H came home from an overseas business trip and confessed to a ONS with a girl he met in a bar. 5 days later he told me that there was more to it that a ONS, and that he was still in contact with her. He told me that he confessed as he never wanted it to happen again as he did not want to lose me. He told me that I needed to decided what I wanted to do.

I was so shocked, this was outside my realms of possibility, I thought the worst thing that could happen in my life would be that he died. My despair over this caused him to lose hope for us, several times he thought things were over for us, and he was turning towards the OW, whom he said he loved. He also confessed to using porn and masturbating. Masturbating I understand, I'm not a fan of porn as I think it is exploitive.

Finally a bit over a month after his first confession he revealed that he was still in contact with the OW, although he had assured me that this had stopped, and he also dropped the bomb on me that for the past 15 years he had visited prostitutes 10-12 times. He could not give me specifics of when this had happened, except for a couple of times when he had been interstate on business. He had thought that this last revelation would be the end of our marriage, but he realised he needed to be totally honest with me so that he would stop lying about talking to the other woman and everything. I said that I had never wanted our relationship to be over, he said that he was going to have to decide between me and the OW. The next day he said that he could not trust himself to not do it again, he was afraid of continuing to hurt me, so it was over for us. I went away with the boys, he said seeing the 4 of us drive away nearly killed him. He did some serious soul searching and called it off with the OW and asked if I would have him back. There were some complications with stalker behaviour from the OW, but that was 5 mths ago and we are working on reconciling.

Similarities with your situation, my H is a serial cheater, with a high sex drive, I have a lower sex drive. I probably put the children before my husband, I work part time outside the home too. I love him dearly but told him that he needs to understand, he needs to give me a break, I'm 40 years old, I'm tired, I have to work too hard, you don't help me enough, etc. I thought it was normal too have less sex as you get older, I talked with my girlfriends and my H was getting at more than most of their husbands (we were having sex 2-3 times a weeks, occasionally not great sex, like you with your wife), so wasn't he just being greedy? So I never realised how important sex was to him and to our relationship, we should have communicated properly about this and probably had couples and individual counselling a long time ago. As I said I love him dearly and want to grow old with him. I believe that he is being totally honest with me now. Of course I am still getting over the massive hurt that this has caused, actually we both are. It pains him enormously to know that he is the cause of this. 

We want our marriage to work. We want to learn to meet each others needs etc. Everyone makes mistakes, everyone deserves forgiveness, although this is very very difficult. In 20 years time we want to be able to look back and think about how we nearly lost it. After about 2 weeks of me saying "keep your cheating hands off me" we started hysterical bonding, and since then I have been trying to meet his needs in the bedroom, which includes just communicating more. I love him and don't want him to be unhappy or going elsewhere to have his needs met.

I think that your posting here does show remorse, you do need to totally own it and apologise over and over again, in my case I could not hear I'm sorry enough from my H, although it was hard for him he had to do it. My self esteem has taken a massive hit so I also need to hear how much he values and appreciates me, how amazing, beautiful, sexy I am, how grateful he is that I have given him another chance. I acknowledge that we both have/had a choice.

It really is up to your wife if she wants to stay with you or not. If she does, like I did, you need meet her needs, and basically do what she wants so that you can regain her trust. Definitely get counselling and get checked for STIs!!

Sorry for the long post. I wish you well. Please ask if I can be of any assistance.


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## Cieran (Dec 2, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> My suggestion to you is that you get some books and read them.. they will get you to a point of knowing what to do quicker than drawn out counseling.
> 
> Start with "Surviving and Affair" by Dr. Harley. Then look at the books linked to in my signature block below for rebuilding a passionate marriage... they could also be about how to build an affair proof marriage.
> 
> Don't tell your wife that you are reading these books at first; read, learn. Calling Dr. Harley might be a good idea as well since it sounds like you have the money for the phone consulations.



Thank you EleGirl. I bought both the books you recommended and am beginning to read them now. 

Question: You mentioned 'drawn out counselling'. Can you elaborate on this? I am trying everything i can to restore my marriage. Reading this forum has been extremely helpful, but I've been learning that it comes with it's ups and downs.

the more I read, the more I become unsure if R is what I want any more. The longer I live apart from her, the more I realize I could live apart and my dependency and reliance on 'comfort/home' are subsiding. My first counseling is today in fact. I even managed to get her to agree on joint counseling later in the week, which I'm very relieved to have.
However I won't lie, in this situation, the days seem to pass so slowly, or in other words, it feels like alot of time is passing each day, alot of thoughts, alot of feelings.
I am concerned by what some ppl have said to me in this thread about my purposely ending my marriage, about me doing this on purpose and getting revenge on her as the feeling of that I can't just say NO it wasn't that. It's like when someone actually accused me of that, I was at first , no way, but at the same time i felt somewhat aligned to it and not vehemently opposed.

My concern is that if this process is drawn out, i really need to have action and time spent working towards healing and fixing, because my determination is wavering now. I began with every thought to R, and now, I have doubts.


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## Cieran (Dec 2, 2012)

AnnieAsh said:


> This a million times!
> 
> Look, I totally know where you are coming from OP. When I met the om in my case, I was STARVED for affection and attention. And I continued having sex with my husband because I wasn't gonna stop getting mine lol. But he rarely hugged me spontaneously, kissed me, talking to him was like talking to a rock. We had sex twice a week like clockwork and coparented and that was IT. That just isn't enough for me but when I brought it up, he would tell me "this is what happens when you've been married this long."
> 
> ...


No offense taken. I am emotional for sure, but I very much appreciate all responses, both positive and those bashing me. I am of an opinion that I acquire both ends of the spectrum of judgement so that I can have the full picture and try to comprehend where I went wrong. I deserve all the negativity for sure. 

I appreciate your post either way. What you wrote above is exactly my wife and i. we don't talk much, I try to talk dreams, emotions, feelings, places, times, she talks work, money, kids, bills. we don't have sex sometimes for 2+ weeks, at it's most frequent it's once a week if i'm absolutely lucky, and the sex is mechanical and emotionless 90% of the time, with 75% of the time she is sleeping.
We are exactly that, co-parents and thats it. Roommates if you will.

I know I ruined everything. I'm so stupid. I think if we ever get past this, your suggestion of 10-15 hrs per week absolutely alone together is essential, because honestly I don't even know what that feels like anymore since we had kids esp, which was 9 years ago.


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## Cieran (Dec 2, 2012)

Kanga said:


> Cieran,
> 
> I want to share my experience with you, as there are some similarities with your story. I am 41, married for 20 years, 3 sons aged 8-14. My H came home from an overseas business trip and confessed to a ONS with a girl he met in a bar. 5 days later he told me that there was more to it that a ONS, and that he was still in contact with her. He told me that he confessed as he never wanted it to happen again as he did not want to lose me. He told me that I needed to decided what I wanted to do.
> 
> ...


thank you. I really can only pray that my wife gives me the chance you gave your husband. I don't have an OW and the first night we had our fight about this, I explained the situation with my friend and told her that I enjoyed her friendship but it's over between us, I won't be communicating with her anymore.
it was hard and hurtful for me to do this, as I felt like she was helping me and I enjoyed our time together. I feel even more like a user now.

for me the biggest challenge is not that I can't choose between my W and an OW (which there is none), but now I am wavering on whether R is what I wanted all this time. I seem to take 2 steps forward and 1-2 steps back now...


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## louhazosc (Dec 3, 2012)

Hey man,
Just did my daily catch up as much as I could on your situation.
One thing that I thought was positive was that you two are in the same house and civil. Of course most of that is to save face in front of the kids.
One thing I didn't really catch from your first post was that the cheating was more of a recent thing.

So listen - you've gotten some sound advice here, you've been bashed, and there's been discussions on semantics. Take all of it in but mostly the advice.

There are some standards of course in dealing with this but most importantly every situation is unique as is each couple and how it is handled.

Let me tell you what has worked for me - keep in mind I'm the one that got cheated on so this may be some things your wife needs. Huge grain of salt there because guys vs women's minds are wired soooo differently.

1.If I asked any question about the situation she had to be honest and answer it. From specific details of that night to emotional, anything. So don't think that if you hold something back you'll be sparing her feelings. She's already hurt. Be 100% honest with her if she asks anything.

2. Regret and sorrow. My wife showed it like there was no tomorrow. In a sense I think the whole thing was harder on her because she not only hurt me but she hurt herself. If your wife doesn't see remorse and regret she will be doubly hurt.

3. Reassurance. Anytime I needed it and then when I didn't even ask for it. Of course being a guy my ego was crushed. There were times I just needed to hear that I was the absolute world to her and then there were times she just told me. It does help. Your wife needs to know she is who you truly love.

4. Get a shovel and start digging. You guys may not be there yet but when you are talking go into the relationship. You are going to hear things that she tells you that will crush you maybe about how at times she absolutely hated you. Take it. On the flip side tell her. Tell her about things that upset you in the relationship. Just do it constructively - don't bash anyone. Like I told you my wife told me about crap she was holding in for 5 years! She despised me for the way I acted one night before we were even married. Now I could have sat there and said "Yeah, but you cheated on me" gone all defensive and all that BS. Fact is that what I did and how I hurt her was pretty damn comparable. Words and emotions hurt. So tell your wife you felt alone in the relationship, you didn't feel connected. It's OK. Don't say "Well, you never gave it up" You get the point.

5. Empathy - I said it before. After 3-4 months of working through this with my wife (there ya go, there's a good time estimate...I've been doing this for 3-4 months already so strap in, good days and bad days, it takes time)...OK, anyway. After working on this for 3-4 months just this weekend my wife actually finally realized what going through this is like for me after I explained it very well. Again guys and girls are wired differently. At the same time you need to understand what your wife may have been going through or feeling. Maybe there was something you were doing that didn't help in that disconnection. Own it brother. Seriously. She has to too. She may not feel that anything she did was wrong. Doesn't matter, you felt hurt by it. Feelings are never ever wrong.

Everything I just told you I learned in the past 3-4 months also. I didn't know all this crap going in, it just happens. My wife was reading some books and I've been talking to a Christian counselor just to unload really but no one has really given us a clear road map. Like I said, every situation is different. We've just worked through it without yelling, without throwing it in each others faces (well, most of the time). It hasn't all been pretty but we make it through.

I also read one thing where someone was surprised you're getting any sympathy because of what you did. You're hurting for what you did and the fact that you damaged your marriage and hurt your wife, obviously or you wouldn't be on here. Everyone deserves some sympathy when they're down.

I guess it's like AA. I've been through a lot in my marriage lately and I stumbled on your post and felt like being a sponsor!!

All the best to you, your wife and your kids in getting through this with whatever happens.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Not many have noted this, but I have to say that the falling asleep while you are having sex is about as disrespectful as I've heard. This is truly humiliating.

I'm actually glad that you are having doubts about R. If you pursue it and your W is willing, you will absolutely have to insist on a 'fix' for her behavior re sex. Given your own behavior with other women, she may well be very resistant. Whatever the case, you don't want to recover a marriage with the very same sexual dysfunction.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I suggest you just move on and divorce. See if you want to stay in touch, afterward. Then you can decide if you really even belong together. If so, she'll have to get work for her LSD.


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

Cieran said:


> thank you. I really can only pray that my wife gives me the chance you gave your husband. I don't have an OW and the first night we had our fight about this, I explained the situation with my friend and told her that I enjoyed her friendship but it's over between us, I won't be communicating with her anymore.
> it was hard and hurtful for me to do this, as I felt like she was helping me and I enjoyed our time together. I feel even more like a user now.
> 
> for me the biggest challenge is not that I can't choose between my W and an OW (which there is none), but now* I am wavering on whether R is what I wanted all this time*. I seem to take 2 steps forward and 1-2 steps back now...


I have followed your thread, and the part I have bolded that you said sounds like your first honest, rational thought.

Give it some time. Clear your fog. As an outsider I really see that you probably don't love your wife anymore.

As a BH, my view is that you should be honest and tell her that you want out. She is probably hurt beyond anything YOU have ever felt. Blame YOURSELF to spare her anymore pain.

You and her probably both need a spouse with different priorities, and different standards. Square pegs in round holes?

Good Heavens, why do people hurt those they "love"?

I actually am *starting* to think you are listening, instead of fighting the great advice you have been receiving from these decent people here at the TAM site.


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

Cieran said:


> For decades men (married or not) stashed Playboys'/ Penthouse magazines, etc. away, porn on your computer is the modern equivalent.
> Embarrased about porn??? wtf?
> The heaviest traffic sites in the world are search engines and porn.
> I can't agree with your critique on me regarding having porn. this is 2012.


I'm not suggesting that viewing porn is unusual, I'm questioning a marriage in which the wife knows her husband *SAVES* porn on his computer. Is this not an issue? Wives no longer care about this?

I'm a single man, and I love sex as much as the next guy, but I don't *SAVE* porn to my computer, why would I, as you point out, "the internet grew because of porn".

In you post you nonchalantly threw out, "they were where she knows I keep all of my porn", as if it was second nature.

I'm telling you, I don't think a man, who wants to be respected by women, should openly have a place where he* "keeps all his porn"*. It's embarrassing, yes. A man needs to be careful to project, and maintain, a strong, confident, and respectable image of himself in his wife's eyes. Marriage is hard enough as it is, maintaining an open stash of porn (not one shared with the spouse) certainly can't make it any easier.

T


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

OP, if you could have a loving and romantic relationship with your wife, would you? How far would you go to repair your marriage? If you have kids, you seem to be awfully quick to give up their home and way of life without even TRYING to make amends and get what you need to having a loving relationship. 

The lesson I want to teach my girls is that walking away is darned easy compared to staying and working it out and getting what I NEED to be a fulfilled wife.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

If I found out my husband did that, we'd be divorced. Whether I gave it up or not. It doesn't belong in a marriage. And it absolutely KILLS a woman's self esteem to know her husband goes there - no differently than if you were to watch her sleeping with another man.

I'm beginning to wonder if her withholding was completely because of her own issues.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

AnnieAsh said:


> Cieran, this is coming from one wayward to another: you do not sound at all remorseful for the pain you have caused your wife. I told another wayward (a wife) that she stabbed her husband in the back and has changed who he is fundamentally. You've done the same to her.
> 
> What I cannot figure out for the life of me is how you are getting sympathy from the people here?! Is it because you are male? I was told over and over and over I was "rewriting" my marriage. And you know what, I think you are too.
> 
> ...


Annie took her licks and is now one of the biggest TAM success stories. Let me publicly say that AnnieAsh is a remarkable woman who came out of her own fog and saved her marriage. You ARE a remarkable woman Annie.


:allhail:

She really is. Listen to her.


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## gemjo (Aug 24, 2012)

Hi Cieran

I have spent some time following your thread and there is some I can relate to within my own marriage.

Married 17 years. I've always considered we had a strong marriage, very loving H in many ways and 4 great happy kids.
Husband has a really good job which he's worked really hard for, I've been more the part time worker looking after the kids and home. My family are my life. 

Some history......4 children, part time medical work and all the housework made a grumpy wife, a tired wife and the last thing on my mind was 'servicing' my H....and for many years that is all sex amounted to. H almost demanding sex. I knew this wasn't right, he knew this wasn't right, and the more he pestered the more I turned my back. I was physically shattered, and emotionally worn out. 

We bought a new, bigger house which meant I would have to work full time and that was fine with me, but I expected a little help at home.....I nagged, I moaned, I tried to explain it was too much for me to do on my own.....it fell on deaf ears. So the one thing I didn't have to do, and really didn't feel like doing was have sex. 

My H never made me feel like wanting sex, I never had time to make myself feel nice....bath, pampering, nice underwear....all needs a little time. I was always shattered in the evenings, watched a little tv to relax and fall into bed shattered. My H would sit in kitchen smoking weed until we went to bed. I was too tired to even realise this wasn't a good way to live and H was too stoned to be bothered about much!

So, it turns out instead of my H coming to me, sitting me down and saying 'look things have to change, I cannot go on living like this' he chose to cheat on me. He cheated at 10 years married, 13 years, and 15 years. Why? Because it was sex, it was on offer and he probably felt on some level ( not that he's admitted it) somewhat entitled because I wasn't giving it up. It was 3 ONS with 3 different colleagues. 3 sexual fumbles is a more accurate description.

Does he regret it? Yep! Does he wish he'd come and spoke to me before he cheated? Yep! 

We are R now, and its the hardest thing either of us has ever been through, harder than losing H mother or my brother!

We are doing good most days, have a better sex life than ever before.........but we are different people now, with older children and more time for us. I have more time for me. H stopped his addiction to weed.

My H has explained it's more than sex, it's having someone want you, feeling desired......I wish we'd made more time for each other Years ago. We have talked for over a year.....tried to analyse why he did what he did etc... He has answered every question, given me every password. No more work trips, complete transparency.

I have tried to sum it up, he wanted sex, he wanted to be wanted, he wanted to be desired ...... He wanted me to have sex with him, to want him and desire him.......when I didn't, and the opportunity presented, he took it.

Not much guilt, not much remorse until he got caught and he saw my pain and devastation, and now he realises just how very much I always loved him.....

I have explained why I didn't want sex, why do you think your wife holds back? Does she hold back emotionally, or is she close to you, hugs, holding hands, loving talk.....

Sorry I've rambled on after second glass of wine!

Don't give up on your wife if you think you stand a chance.....it took me to get suspicious about my H before I upped the anti in the bedroom.......and we haven't looked back in that department.

Good luck.


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## Cieran (Dec 2, 2012)

gemjo said:


> Hi Cieran
> 
> I have spent some time following your thread and there is some I can relate to within my own marriage.
> 
> ...


Gemjo,

Thank you so much for posting your situation for me. It helps greatly to know others in similiar situations and how they dealth with it,etc.

It sounds very much like my situation, of course from the other end. Mine is complicated in that both of us work very high level, demanding jobs and so the time issue is pretty bad.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Most people in that situation who've been successful literally block out time together. They plan ahead and block a half day here or a weekend there, so that it shows on their calendars that they are unavailable.

When DD22 was growing up, the only vacation my husband would take was to go skiing. He liked skiing, but do you know the main reason? Back then (80s), up on the mountains, there was no cell phone coverage - his company and clients couldn't reach him, so it was the only week or two a year that he didn't get bombarded by calls.


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## Cieran (Dec 2, 2012)

*UPDATE (Dec 7.)

Since our first fight, I had left her alone and gave her time to herself, as I knew she could not stand the sight of me. I told her that I was so sorry and that I loved her everyday. She would not speak to me, so I txt'd her. So my wife and I talked for the first time 2 nights ago. I went to the marriage counsellor myself and she was very helpful. I told my wife about my session and my thoughts. 

While our sex drives are different, sex was not the main problem and was only a byproduct of our problems. She told me that she didn't want to have sex with me because I was contemptuous of her and angry with her all the time. I told her I was that way due to us not having sex and intimacy. A sort of chicken and the egg if you will.
However, we both do realize that it did start out with her having a lower sex drive than myself and being tired from working so hard.

I have committed to her that I am addressing my addiction (with my counsellor) and have quit. I hope I make it.
She has agreed to not push her work anymore. To concentrate more on us and our family.

It seems that actually alot of our problems stemmed from life and money priorities actually.

She and I both make very good money in excellent jobs. HOwever, she has always been very conservative and penny pinching, preferring to live a very simple lifestyle.
I on the other hand prefer to scale my lifestyle to my earnings, and I prefer to enjoy life and live it. NOt to say that I don't save, just that saving is a much smaller percentage for me, while it's the largest priority for her.
This has also been the cause of our anger/contempt for one another. We have not really solved the lifestyle issue, but we are committed to letting the counsellor help us with that.
I have told her that if she can be a loviing and intimate wife, that she can have full insight into my finances and she can help to allocate my resources for me, as long as I agree. She has very much wanted this. This will give her peace of mind that my expenditures are co-oiperative with her and that we both agree as to what to spend on.

We have both gone to the counsellor twice now together and it's been tough. Tears and pain are brought up, but we come through it and by the end of the sessions we feel more open and relieved.

I moved back into our bedroom last night. We are talking fully openly now and are loving again,, although not intimate, but I know that part takes time.

I have to run to work, but I will update further as progress/change is made.

Thank you all so much for your posts, both sides. !!!!


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## gemjo (Aug 24, 2012)

I'm glad you are both willing to go down the path of R, a lot of hard work, and a roller coaster ride for months to come.....but hopefully all will work out in the end.

I feel my H and I have a better marriage now, more open, more honest and we do not take one another for granted.......that is the positive we take from this past year. 

Having said that, be prepared for the bad days.....they will come and they will feel like you're digging yourself out of a very deep pit. There will be days when your wife won't want to carry on, she will doubt, she will snipe and there will be days she wants to throw you out.

The more open and honest you can be, the more transparent, the more loving and caring, the more remorseful you are, the better chance you have of a full R with a better, happier marriage ahead.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

That's a very positive report & I will be hoping that the two of you can work things out. It sounds like there's a lot of work on both sides and that you are both committed to trying, so best of luck to you going forward. And definitely let us know how things are going.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Some readings:
For you
How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair. Ebook --> Here
Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners

For both
Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass
The five love languages.
His needs, her needs And love Busters, by Dr. Harley. Go to the website and fill the questionnaires, they have solid info to help you reconect and build the marriage back, conflict resolution, transparence, radical honesty and more marriage building advice.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Great news. Just make sure that in your therapy, you discuss your FOO issues, as those are what guide your choices, such as her need to have huge savings (fear of instability) and your need to spend (fear of unworthiness).


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## Cieran (Dec 2, 2012)

*UPDATE #2 Re: I cheated on my wife, please help me save my marriage!*

*Dec.8 UPDATE #2

So as some ppl have said, it's a very trying time for us. Everything is raw, and sometimes it's like both of us are walking on glass. There are a lot of issues both ways, but a strong commitment to try to make it work.

We have been talking in earnest, deeply. we have kept it very civil for the most part, but there have been a few bouts of yelling.

In our discussions, she pushed me to be completely truthful with her, asking me details and such, and I have been completely forthright. I said the condition I had is that my truth must be matched by her always being truthful as well.
I said this because some ppl on this forum, helped me to see that there was a possibility of her having an affair of some sort, ie. being disengage, low sex drive..etc.etc.

I have actually been hurt recently by alot of her revelations. As it's the first time I found out about any of them in 14 years of marriage and over 20 years being together...and I suppose karma from what i did came around.

The truth is she actually started feeling guilty about me coming out with all my admissions and being completely open with her, when she actually hadn't with me.

It came out that she had cheated on me when we first started dating/effectively 2 timing me for the early part of our relationship with her previous bf. From what she admitted it consisted of a ONS and then continued contact EA. This only lasted 3-4 weeks, but still, I had no idea this happened. we were still 6+ years off from getting married at this tim, so we weren't married, so I don't care, but the fact that she never told me about this all these years, well that is kind of **** and really it does bother me.

It also came out that she had met a past boyfriend 1 or 2 years into our marriage. they ran into each other at a mall and had eaten lunch and talked.. She never told me this and yes it bothers me. She claims nothing more happened at all, it was just friendly. I'll leave it at that. The fact that bothers me more so is that she didn't tell me.

Lastly, she admitted to having an online emotional affair while we were engaged (we were engaged for little over a year). which lasted for about 3-4 weeks. This I never knew either. Like I said, I am rather shocked at all these revelations.

She pretty much burst into tears and really broke down when going through this and I admit to having pretty much lost my temper because to be honest, this **** had been held secret for between 13-20 years!!! 

I will be completely honest, I don't know if I trust her 100% regarding how completely she revealed those truths, or whether there are other truths out there, and yes it bothers me, but everything that was bad, happened before we were married. 

In the end, it really did give me more cards i suppose, and her coming out with this bought me a fast track to almost full reconciliation! We are very close now, and both of us are turning a new leaf.

This discussion basically lasted from early evening to bed, continued next morning, to lunch, to afternoon, so it was lengthy and heated. By the end of it, we were both in tears. yes i admit to crying i was hurt, but more so was hurt by seeing her hurt. she has pretty much been 'ice queen' to me, and i have been detached from our marriage, due to our previous problems. So this is the closest emotionally we've been since perhaps the early years of our marriage.

I'll finish off by saying we are pretty much reconciled. We finished the day with the best sex we have had as a couple in almost ever. She was passionate and loving. It was like I was with another woman ! (as bad as that sounds...it's true)
I hope this is not just make-up sex, and that our passion and emotions continue long term/permanent.

We are still going to counselling to deal with the differences in our opinions and priorities regarding lifestyle and money and esp. to deal with trust. But we are at least a married couple again.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Here's my secret. When I had been married a year, was attending night school, was living with H and his mom (!) in his house, after being proposed to while sitting on the couch with her, watching a tv show,and wondering what the hell have I done, I was sitting next to a cute guy in my class. We talked each week for a few weeks; I hadn't been wearing my ring (for a genuine reason - downtown at night, not safe, didn't want to be robbed), so he assumed I was single; for a few weeks, I let him bellieve that, as the prospect of meeting a guy who actually treated me like you'd think a guy would, was enticing. After a few classes, my guilt took over and I wore my ring to class. The guy was mad. I was ashamed. I never told my husband. And I never did another thing like that, in 30+ years.

Anyway, I'm glad to hear you guys are doing such good work.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Boy, what a difference! It sounds like you're communicating so well & that is very important. I don't doubt that you still have much to do & I'll be pulling for you. A very positive update.


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## sheer (Dec 9, 2012)

Why do you guys get married or stay in a monogamous relationship if you cant commit?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Because humans are NEVER perfect and are just doing what they know to do with what they are given in their FOO.

I take it you figured it all out from the womb?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

I feel bad for your wife..


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

*Re: UPDATE #2 Re: I cheated on my wife, please help me save my marriage!*



Cieran said:


> I'll finish off by saying we are pretty much reconciled.


You are not. Not even close. Just starting. A marathon, not a sprint. It takes 2-5 years to fully reconcile.


> We finished the day with the best sex we have had as a couple in almost ever. She was passionate and loving. It was like I was with another woman ! (as bad as that sounds...it's true)
> I hope this is not just make-up sex, and that our passion and emotions continue long term/permanent.


It's calle hysterical bonding, google it. It's primal. Enjoy the ride while it last. I hope it means the beggining of a more than fulliling sexual life forever got you gus but the intensity HB don't, can't last.

Purchase Not Just Friends, two copies.


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## Cieran (Dec 2, 2012)

*Re: UPDATE #2 Re: I cheated on my wife, please help me save my marriage!*



Acabado said:


> You are not. Not even close. Just starting. A marathon, not a sprint. It takes 2-5 years to fully reconcile.
> It's calle hysterical bonding, google it. It's primal. Enjoy the ride while it last. I hope it means the beggining of a more than fulliling sexual life forever got you gus but the intensity HB don't, can't last.
> 
> Purchase Not Just Friends, two copies.


THanks for the advice. I understand.
The biggest key I know now is that she desperately wants the marriage to work as do I. PRior to this I really did feel she wasn't there, and I was disengaged as well. SUbconsciuosly I was really looking for a way out.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What are you doing specifically to enhance the marriage?


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

*Re: UPDATE #2 Re: I cheated on my wife, please help me save my marriage!*



Cieran said:


> THanks for the advice. I understand.
> The biggest key I know now is that she desperately wants the marriage to work as do I. PRior to this I really did feel she wasn't there, and I was disengaged as well. SUbconsciuosly I was really looking for a way out.


There are bad days ahead. Don't fool yourself into thinking the worst is over. As she works things out in her head she may get angry again. Just do what she asks of you.


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## gemjo (Aug 24, 2012)

*Re: UPDATE #2 Re: I cheated on my wife, please help me save my marriage!*



sandc said:


> There are bad days ahead. Don't fool yourself into thinking the worst is over. As she works things out in her head she may get angry again. Just do what she asks of you.


:iagree:

Not to put a downer on it, it's great you are R, but this is the beginning, and I hate to say, it gets harder before it gets better.....but if you are committed you will survive it.

Good luck


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

*Re: UPDATE #2 Re: I cheated on my wife, please help me save my marriage!*



Cieran said:


> THanks for the advice. I understand.
> The biggest key I know now is that she desperately wants the marriage to work as do I. PRior to this I really did feel she wasn't there, and I was disengaged as well. SUbconsciuosly I was really looking for a way out.


I don't know her but you were already out, except in paper. Most of it was facade. We can argue to exhaustion about neglecting, breaking many marriage vows but the meat of the marriage, the core of every monogamus relationship was destroyed by you the moment you engaged both in PAs and that really dangerous EA. It was not done subconsciuosly, it was done actively, against you marriage.
I can't encourage you enough to be humble and own your stuff, genuinely. Not for her, for you. It's probably 70 % of the task here. Before tryong to fix marriage issues reject you actions, fully, then look beyond your our pain and reach out.
I hope you guys find your way back to each other. Crossing my fingers so MC is a good catch for you. Be humble enough to accept you need help to navigated the nighmare of the aftermath and to rebuild the marriage. There are tons of resources, the books I pointed out, marriagebuilders... this entire site too.

Good luck.


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## Cieran (Dec 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> What are you doing specifically to enhance the marriage?


I make time to talk with her everyday about what is important to us, and even anything. Whatever she/we wish to talk about. We make a little alone time everyday, usually after the kids are in bed. 

This will sound a bit negative, but I think of her as both my wife and my girlfriend. This helps me to think fresh and put extra effort into this. 

I do know I am wrong. I know I am to blame. I have told her that I am here for her and will never step out again. I believe in it. I have told her all she needs to ask and I will do whatever it is I can. 

We have made an agreement that once a week, we'll get a sitter/caregiver and go out ourselves for the evening. Once or twice a month, my parents have agreed to have the kids sleep over at their place, so that I can take my wife to nearby towns or resorts and we can spend the night over in another place. A sort of mini-get away.

We always took 2-3 vacations a year, but always as a family. We have agreed that 1 of those is reserved for just us 2 to get away. She is already planning where we will go this xmas. She wants to go to the Carribbean (we love it there).

We both have agreed that our family comes before work and both of us have made an effort to setup work-life balance with our bosses. We intend to meet one another at home everyday, at 5:30/6 pm. Late nights are the exception, not the rule.
We have promised to eat dinner together all the time. We both used to grab dinner at work or on the way home or not, and never really made it something we have to do together, except on weekends. I mean we used to eat dinner together on weeknights also, but maybe only 60% of the time.

To solve our money differences, I've given her insight into my finances so she can have a say in what I spend on. This doesn't bother me.

She has agreed to sell our monster home. (which we have both a large mortgage on and alot of equity in). We are in agreement that we do not need some huge house to make us happy. We are downsizing, and going to put some of the proceeds away for retirement and others we'll use to enjoy our life more. She has always insisted on keeping the home, which is way too big for our needs. She uses this as a reason why she must work harder, to make more, to pay for and upgrade our home.

once we downsize, she has agreed to settle down her career. She has stated that I, and our family come before her need to climb the corporate ladder. It's not something she wanted, just something she got into.

these are the start. As I/she/we think of more things we would like, I'll post up here.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

What about what Acabado so aptly called that 'very dangerous EA'? Are you in complete NC now?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Sounds great. I'll suggest that once a week, you just sit and discuss the 'state of the marriage' where it's safe and no one responds to the other's comments - just goes away and thinks about them. Make it safe to tell everything.


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## Cieran (Dec 2, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> What about what Acabado so aptly called that 'very dangerous EA'? Are you in complete NC now?


yes. The night that my wife confronted me, the very next day I contacted my friend and told her that our friendship was over and that I wouldn't be communicating with her any more. We have not talked/txt'd/emailed or anything since and it will stay that way.


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## Cieran (Dec 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> Have you read His Needs Her Needs?


thanks for this. bought it yesterday.


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

Are you licking her toes every night and feeding her chocolate? Because that's what you should be doing. 

I have not been able to read through the entire thread, so I'm not privy to everything that's transpired since your initial thread, but I have to say-- you don't deserve to have your marriage saved. Make sure she knows that you know that.


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## Cieran (Dec 2, 2012)

WhiteMousse said:


> Are you licking her toes every night and feeding her chocolate? Because that's what you should be doing.
> 
> I have not been able to read through the entire thread, so I'm not privy to everything that's transpired since your initial thread, but I have to say-- you don't deserve to have your marriage saved. Make sure she knows that you know that.


I understand. i don't mind licking and playing with her toes and feet, fetish you know. For her and I, I've been bringing home nice selected bottles of wine for her and I to share over dinner every third night or so.

I know I don't deserve it, but actually going to regular counselling and reading alot of the recommended reads has shown me the dysfunctional aspects of my marriage from BOTH sides and how far back some of them reach.


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## louhazosc (Dec 3, 2012)

Cieran said:


> I make time to talk with her everyday about what is important to us, and even anything. Whatever she/we wish to talk about. We make a little alone time everyday, usually after the kids are in bed.
> 
> This will sound a bit negative, but I think of her as both my wife and my girlfriend. This helps me to think fresh and put extra effort into this.
> 
> ...


Damn, it's been a couple weeks since I checked up on ya and I'm really happy for you. 
Remember, be patient. Hell, it's been 3.5 months since I found out about my situation and today I felt like complete crap about it BUT the Mrs. and I talked through it.
So enough of my advice - 
All the best to you and you're family


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## gemjo (Aug 24, 2012)

Cieran said:


> I understand. i don't mind licking and playing with her toes and feet, fetish you know. For her and I, I've been bringing home nice selected bottles of wine for her and I to share over dinner every third night or so.
> 
> I know I don't deserve it, but actually going to regular counselling and reading alot of the recommended reads has shown me the dysfunctional aspects of my marriage from BOTH sides and how far back some of them reach.


It's good that you are analysing your marriage, and understanding where things went wrong, why they went wrong and what should have been done before and instead of the cheating.

Keep us updated, and don't become too despondent when / if your wife hits a low.......it is almost a dead cert. that she will at some point....no doubt you will both be bonding again (and that's nice)...enjoy it, but, realise things will also be hard some days.... this is normal.

This is when you have to dig deep and convince your wife she is all you want, from now until forever, that she was all you ever wanted even if you made bad choices.......she is the love of your life. Mean it and prove it.

Good luck


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