# Can't win helping clean!!!



## daveguy (5 mo ago)

My wife complains I don't clean enough, but when I do, she stands over me like a Hawk constantly nit picking tell me how I'm doing it wrong. 
I try when she's not home and get chided when she gets home, 
i try in different rooms and ask her to leave me along there and FREAKING MOST Weird thing is, she will then stay/go to a different room and "clean" by stomping and banging very loudly AND throwing away my stuff! 

Horribly frustrated, just wanted to vent. 
but I would like advice on how to keep some of my things safe so I don't have to lose them or replace them - seems weird to have to have a small locking box in a relationship.


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## StillGettingWiser (6 mo ago)

Hand her whatever you're using to clean and tell her "Here, I'll leave it to the expert". Walk away and never clean again.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Sorry Dave...

This dynamic is of her creation, and with your' permission.

When you do the clean up, find your balls, the ones kicked under her bed, the balls now looking like dust bunnies.

Clean as you like.
If she so much as complains, tell her that you are done cleaning and listening to her disrespect.

When she starts her crap, walk out, come back in a few hours.
She will ask you where you went, and why.
And, don't you ever do that again.

Tell her, every time she starts her criticism, you will leave her to herself.
Hand her a mirror and tell her (if she must), bi_tch at herself!

This much I know, if you fight back, they tend to cut back on the unending carping.

In the end the only cure is calming medication for her, or divorce for you.

Sorry.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Did you leave the toilet seat up ?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

If she wants you to clean, she doesn’t get to tell you how it should be done. Make sure she understands that before you start. And, no, she doesn’t get to throw your stuff away. Stand up for yourself or she’ll continue to run all over you.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

daveguy said:


> I would like advice on how to keep some of my things safe so I don't have to lose them or replace them - seems weird to have to have a small locking box in a relationship.


I feel your pain and your concern.

My_ Tarot Cards_, seem to find themselves in the garbage, over and over again.
Damn things, have a mind of their own.

I buy more, I can afford them.

I fear nothing, save for_ The Big Guy,_ HIS asking for that 10% of my life's blood.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

daveguy said:


> My wife complains I don't clean enough, but when I do, she stands over me like a Hawk constantly nit picking tell me how I'm doing it wrong.
> I try when she's not home and get chided when she gets home,
> i try in different rooms and ask her to leave me along there and FREAKING MOST Weird thing is, she will then stay/go to a different room and "clean" by stomping and banging very loudly AND throwing away my stuff!
> 
> ...


Are these things she's throwing away laying around loose instead of being put up in drawers or a closet?


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## Max.HeadRoom (Jun 28, 2014)

i caught my wife refolding laundry after i was done with it, and bam i was done with hers and ours. ill fold mine sometimes and put it away. if she divides up the piles to clean ill keep them push through the wash, but folding no.


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## daveguy (5 mo ago)

StillGettingWiser said:


> Hand her whatever you're using to clean and tell her "Here, I'll leave it to the expert". Walk away and never clean again.


Seems a bit extreme, but does remind me of her many times where she vacuums (which she does a LOT) and the dirty spot keeps moving underneath me, as I move away from her. repeatedly.


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## daveguy (5 mo ago)

SunCMars said:


> Sorry Dave...
> 
> This dynamic is of her creation, and with your' permission.
> 
> ...


Seems pretty good advice. I clean mainly when she's not home, problem is, she's home all the time anymore. 
IF I leave while she's cleaning -IF she's banging stuff around very loudly, I come home to much of my stuff in the garbage. 
We'd never divorce, we have way too much good stuff between us! I'm just trying to work out some of our frustrating painful parts.


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## daveguy (5 mo ago)

Mr.Married said:


> Did you leave the toilet seat up ?


I have NEVER understood this. 
We are, or should, each be responsible for our own toilet seat position.
sheessh, can you imagine if Men demanded Women leave the seat up for US??! 
either is a sexist one way proposition.


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## daveguy (5 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Are these things she's throwing away laying around loose instead of being put up in drawers or a closet?


Most Always put up in drawers, closet. 
I rarely leaves things laying around, she does and I ask her where to put them when I pick up - never dream of throwing them away behind her back.


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

Sounds like she’s a control freak. Sorry.


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

StillGettingWiser said:


> Hand her whatever you're using to clean and tell her "Here, I'll leave it to the expert". Walk away and never clean again.


^^^THIS^^^ My wife tried this crap on me just one time. I was making breakfast for us and she started telling me that I was opening the sausage package wrong. I never said a word. I just laid the package down, poured myself a bowl of cereal and never made breakfast again. Guess what. She has never done that again.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

daveguy said:


> I have NEVER understood this.
> We are, or should, each be responsible for our own toilet seat position.
> sheessh, can you imagine if Men demanded Women leave the seat up for US??!
> either is a sexist one way proposition.


…


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## daveguy (5 mo ago)

Mr.Married said:


> …
> View attachment 94298



I need find a good picture Meme to show how they exaggerate when complaining that "Men pee all over the toilet seat!, can't they aim".


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

daveguy said:


> Most Always put up in drawers, closet.
> I rarely leaves things laying around, she does and I ask her where to put them when I pick up - never dream of throwing them away behind her back.


What type of stuff is she throwing away? Are you guys out of storage space? You do have to send things out which I badly need to do right now, but you should be able to do it together.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Diceplayer said:


> ^^^THIS^^^ My wife tried this crap on me just one time. I was making breakfast for us and she started telling me that I was opening the sausage package wrong. I never said a word. I just laid the package down, poured myself a bowl of cereal and never made breakfast again. Guess what. She has never done that again.


I watched a woman do the twisty thing with the sausage package and squeeze it out and found it a handy procedure. And I like it when my lady asks me for some sausage, so I don’t mind whipping it out. I make good blueberry waffles too.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

Mr.Married said:


> Did you leave the toilet seat up ?


The "correct" way to leave the home toilet is with the seat AND the lid down. That way, nothing can accidentally fall into the toilet bowl.

If she doesn't put the lid down, then she's just as much an offender. Also, that will blunt her ability to rant about the seat; it shows how easy it is to overlook the seat position if she forgets the lid position herself.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

daveguy said:


> My wife complains I don't clean enough, but when I do, she stands over me like a Hawk constantly nit picking tell me how I'm doing it wrong.
> I try when she's not home and get chided when she gets home,
> i try in different rooms and ask her to leave me along there and FREAKING MOST Weird thing is, she will then stay/go to a different room and "clean" by stomping and banging very loudly AND throwing away my stuff!
> 
> ...


If the rest of your relationship is very good, then this is the sort of thing that marriage counselors SHOULD be good at fixing. An neutral party to set ground rules for minor behavioral issues.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Diceplayer said:


> ^^^THIS^^^ My wife tried this crap on me just one time. I was making breakfast for us and she started telling me that I was opening the sausage package wrong. I never said a word. I just laid the package down, poured myself a bowl of cereal and never made breakfast again. Guess what. She has never done that again.


Well that's mature.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Mr.Married said:


> …
> View attachment 94298


Women don't pee all over the toilet seat.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

What do you say to her when she throws some of your stuff away?

If you have an otherwise good/healthy relationship, then she should be open to hearing how this frustrates you and compromise.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Wolfman1968 said:


> The "correct" way to leave the home toilet is with the seat AND the lid down. That way, nothing can accidentally fall into the toilet bowl.
> 
> If she doesn't put the lid down, then she's just as much an offender. Also, that will blunt her ability to rant about the seat; it shows how easy it is to overlook the seat position if she forgets the lid position herself.


Exactly. That’s why there is a lid.


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Women don't pee all over the toilet seat.


My wife says otherwise. She's complained several times after using toilets at malls and such.


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

My wife doesn't like the patterns I leave when I vacuum the rugs and carpets, doesn't like how I do the formal bed setting. I just leave them to her now, and offer to help when she seems to need a break.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Mr.Married said:


> …
> View attachment 94298


The thing is.....

I get that women do their business sitting down....always.
Even in the woods!

Men have this same problem when they get up in the middle of the night, and need to sit in the dark and release...whatever it is, only to find the seat up.

And your butt, by habit, is placed dead center, so no sides are available to keep it from going down, down, splash, into the toilet's water!

Talk about throwing your back out, when your butt meets no plastic, only that _cold porcelain_!

BTDT!


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Julie's Husband said:


> My wife says otherwise. She's complained several times after using toilets at malls and such.


Well there's a reason for why they might have pee on them in public and that's because people are afraid of using public restrooms and don't sit down, but no one doesn't sit down in their own home. And that's why men who are standing up tend to splatter and that's why men need to be the ones to touch the toilet seat and put them down.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Julie's Husband said:


> My wife doesn't like the patterns I leave when I vacuum the rugs and carpets, doesn't like how I do the formal bed setting. I just leave them to her now, and offer to help when she seems to need a break.


I agree it's being too picky about the rug patterns, unless of course you're preparing to have some company over that you want to impress. 

I think you guys need to be just asking them why and find out if there's some reason for it aside from them just wanting you to copy what they do. My guess is that they've already given you this information, but if not, just ask them why it needs to be done this certain way. And if they have a legitimate reason such as the toilet lid thing, great. If they just want you to copy them, then just ask them why they care as long as the job gets done. 

And if that pisses them off, then just tell them you're trying to help and they're not letting you because of the time it's taking them to supervise they could have done it themselves. 

But I think some of you are setting yourself up to be in a parent child relationship if you just sull up and refuse to help and be a partner. Because she may just roll up and refuse to be a partner in other ways if you're going to act like that. 

I still can't tell what the op's situation is really about. I have to believe there's too much clutter in the house and that he hasn't helped clear it out but then we don't know if she's ever asked him to go through his things and clear some of it out. I have to believe she's talked to him about this before but if their communication is real bad maybe not.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Women don't pee all over the toilet seat.


Uh, um...

A bladder too full, waiting too long to go (sometimes it is unavoidable)
The voiding wins, sooner or later.

Her ureter and other female apparatchik having issues.

Drinking too much at the party.

Aging issues.

Yes.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

SunCMars said:


> Uh, um...
> 
> A bladder too full, waiting too long to go (sometimes it is unavoidable)
> The voiding wins, sooner or later.
> ...


Women would clean it up if they made the mess.


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Well there's a reason for why they might have pee on them in public and that's because people are afraid of using public restrooms and don't sit down, but no one doesn't sit down in their own home. And that's why men who are standing up tend to splatter and that's why men need to be the ones to touch the toilet seat and put them down.


I always cover the seat on public toilets, use paper to touch anything. Black belt level germaphobe. At home slow urine flow makes it more convenient to sit now. 🙄


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I think you guys need to be just asking them why and find out if there's some reason for it aside from them just wanting you to copy what they do. My guess is that they've already given you this information, but if not, just ask them why it needs to be done this certain way. And if they have a legitimate reason such as the toilet lid thing, great. If they just want you to copy them, then just ask them why they care as long as the job gets done.


We've had that conversation and she is not interested in taking the time to show me. No big deal if that suits her. I just don't want her to feel overloaded.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Wolfman1968 said:


> If the rest of your relationship is very good, then this is the sort of thing that marriage counselors SHOULD be good at fixing. An neutral party to set ground rules for minor behavioral issues.


No thanks - dealing with those minor skirmishes is not our job. 

Forget toilet seats. What I'd be wanting to find out is why his wife is angry with him.


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

Years ago, I told my wife thst she could ask me to do something, but she was not going to tell me how to do it. There is more than one way to do most anything. I asked her if this was worth fighting over and if so, we need to assess whether we should live together.

99% of stuff that couples argue about is pointless, small stuff.

If it isn't going to matter in 5 days, don't waste 5 minutes worrying or arguing about it.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

daveguy said:


> My wife complains I don't clean enough, but when I do, she stands over me like a Hawk constantly nit picking tell me how I'm doing it wrong.
> I try when she's not home and get chided when she gets home,
> i try in different rooms and ask her to leave me along there and FREAKING MOST Weird thing is, she will then stay/go to a different room and "clean" by stomping and banging very loudly AND throwing away my stuff!
> 
> ...


Look up OCPD and see if any of the other traits fit her.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

daveguy said:


> My wife complains I don't clean enough, but when I do, she stands over me like a Hawk constantly nit picking tell me how I'm doing it wrong.
> I try when she's not home and get chided when she gets home,
> i try in different rooms and ask her to leave me along there and FREAKING MOST Weird thing is, she will then stay/go to a different room and "clean" by stomping and banging very loudly AND throwing away my stuff!
> 
> ...


LoL! Cut her loose dude.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

daveguy said:


> Seems pretty good advice. I clean mainly when she's not home, problem is, she's home all the time anymore.
> IF I leave while she's cleaning -IF she's banging stuff around very loudly, I come home to much of my stuff in the garbage.
> We'd never divorce, we have way too much good stuff between us! I'm just trying to work out some of our frustrating painful parts.


Start throwing her stuff away and see how she likes experiencing her own treatment.

Honestly she sounds very unwell. How long has she been behaving this way?


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

@daveguy What do you think her version of the story would be? What would she say, if she had a one to one session with a marriage counselor? If you don't know, you should find out. If you do know, tell us.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

ConanHub said:


> Start throwing her stuff away and see how she likes experiencing her own treatment.


Oh great. Then we have two of them "acting out".


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## UAArchangel (2 mo ago)

daveguy said:


> My wife complains I don't clean enough, but when I do, she stands over me like a Hawk constantly nit picking tell me how I'm doing it wrong.
> I try when she's not home and get chided when she gets home,
> i try in different rooms and ask her to leave me along there and FREAKING MOST Weird thing is, she will then stay/go to a different room and "clean" by stomping and banging very loudly AND throwing away my stuff!
> 
> ...


Women have a better natural eye for detail cleaning than men, so I don't it's reasonable to expect men to have the same standard as women when it comes to cleaning.
I think a better way to divide the house cleaning chores is to allow the man to get the most obvious stuff and let the woman attend to the finer details of a clean room. Let the man move the furniture and sweep/vacuum, and other stuff and the woman attend to finer details of a clean house. 50/50 does not mean having to divide the house by 50%. To me 50% is just half the housework, men can do the bottom half and women can do the top half.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

If you can't talk about this type stuff, maybe it is time to see a marriage counselor -- even though Laurentium wants no part of it -- and just learn to listen to each other and work through everyday things. It IS possible one of you is OCD or something. But just wanting to keep a house livable doesn't make a person OCD. Wanting to hold onto everything can, and so can having to do something a certain way, so there's the potential with both of you.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

UAArchangel said:


> Women have a better natural eye for detail cleaning than men, so I don't it's reasonable to expect men to have the same standard as women when it comes to cleaning.
> I think a better way to divide the house cleaning chores is to allow the man to get the most obvious stuff and let the woman attend to the finer details of a clean room. Let the man move the furniture and sweep/vacuum, and other stuff and the woman attend to finer details of a clean house. 50/50 does not mean having to divide the house by 50%. To me 50% is just half the housework, men can do the bottom half and women can do the top half.


No, they don't. I hate housework. I have known a few meticulous men, too, certainly better at it than I am, though I have to say I do know how to detail clean. I just don't want to. But I agree with you that some communication to arrive at what division of labor would work best is the way to go. But sounds like they have trouble communicating. Well, she can tell him what to do and how to do it, but he doesn't have an answer for that, so it needs work.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

DownByTheRiver said:


> If you can't talk about this type stuff, maybe it is time to see a marriage counselor -- even though Laurentium wants no part of it -


Oh, I'd take it. I'm just not about telling them to put the seat up or down, as if I was their parent. 



> It IS possible one of you is OCD or something. But just wanting to keep a house livable doesn't make a person OCD. Wanting to hold onto everything can, and so can having to do something a certain way, so there's the potential with both of you.


Stomping and banging around sounds more like anger than OCD.


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## UAArchangel (2 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> No, they don't. I hate housework. I have known a few meticulous men, too, certainly better at it than I am, though I have to say I do know how to detail clean. I just don't want to. But I agree with you that some communication to arrive at what division of labor would work best is the way to go. But sounds like they have trouble communicating. Well, she can tell him what to do and how to do it, but he doesn't have an answer for that, so it needs work.


Women do have a greater eye for detail than men. It's part of evolutionary biology, because women had to differentiate between which plants would feed the family and which would kill the family. All I'm saying is that 50/50 split is fine, but a couple should be flexible as to what that means and go with their strength. If I'm incapable of seeing stains on the wall, because the stain is slightly off colour, but I've moved furniture and 80% of the room is done with only minor touch-ups needed, that should be good enough in my opinion, as far as my share of the 50% goes. I'm motivated to do that 80% every single weekend, so why complain if I cannot see stains? I agree that a lack of communication of expectations is part of the problem and a lack of flexibility and creative thinking.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Laurentium said:


> Oh, I'd take it. I'm just not about telling them to put the seat up or down, as if I was their parent.
> 
> Stomping and banging around sounds more like anger than OCD.


Definitely anger, maybe from frustration. He could be the one with OCD or OCPD. Some of them do not want to get rid of anything and don't care if it's wall-to-wall. I have an old friend like that. He only had narrow paths of floor space to walk from room to room. Even when he married and his fiancee made it a condition that he got rid of most of that stuff, all he did was rent a bunch of storage units. So some storage unit somewhere, he still has every early internet porn known to man stored on floppies, because he was a guy who built pc prototypes and took literally everything and recorded it that was being pinged before internet between other early computer guys. And that was just the beginning. 

You could help them communicate. One or both of them isn't listening.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

My wife is a control freak about the way laundry is folded. And she knows it. If I fold anything, she tears it apart and re-folds it every time. Except socks, I can fold those.

At first it ticked me off that she thought I couldn’t do it correctly, but through a little communication we found a neutral ground that we’re both happy with. I don’t fold.
👕


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## UAArchangel (2 mo ago)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> My wife is a control freak about the way laundry is folded. And she knows it. If I fold anything, she tears it apart and re-folds it every time. Except socks, I can fold those.
> 
> At first it ticked me off that she thought I couldn’t do it correctly, but through a little communication we found a neutral ground that we’re both happy with. I don’t fold.
> 👕


I don't personally mind learning a new skill, if the skill I am learning really is better than my standard of practice. I'd still be willing to learn to fold to her standard, if I can see that it does a better job.


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

UAArchangel said:


> Women have a better natural eye for detail cleaning than men, so I don't it's reasonable to expect men to have the same standard as women when it comes to cleaning.


Not necessarily. My military training instilled much higher standards than most people.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

UAArchangel said:


> I don't personally mind learning a new skill, if the skill I am learning really is better than my standard of practice. I'd still be willing to learn to fold to her standard, if I can see that it does a better job.


BTDT. I called her a control freak for a reason.
She’s much happier this way.


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## UAArchangel (2 mo ago)

BootsAndJeans said:


> Not necessarily. My military training instilled much higher standards than most people.


Nothing is absolute of course. I'm speaking from generalities, based on evolutionary science.
Prisoners are also known to be clean freaks in their cells, because they have a lot of time in their day to get their cell down to how they want it in the most minutiae level and they have to ensure their ability of keeping track of their belongings.


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

*I have had many people remark how clean and orderly my garage and tools are. My wife tells them I am obsessed with neatness and cleanliness.*


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

OCPD is something different than OCD though they can look the same sometimes.


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

What is OCPD, other than Oklahoma City Police Dept.?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

*Symptoms OCPD*
Individuals with obsessive-compulsive personality disorder, according to the DSM-5, are overly concerned with orderliness, perfectionism, and control, a pattern that begins by early adulthood and includes four or more of the following:

A preoccupation with order and details that results in the person missing the point of an activity
Perfectionism that hinders the completion of tasks
Devotion to work and productivity to an extent that is excessive and not explained by economic needs
Excessive conscientiousness and inflexibility related to morality or values (not explained by one's culture or religion)
Inability to get rid of worn or worthless objects, even if they lack sentimental value
Reluctance to delegate tasks to or work with others unless things are done his or her way
Reluctance to spend money on oneself or others and a belief that money should be hoarded for emergencies
Rigidity and stubbornness


OCD symptoms:
The DSM-5 diagnostic criteria for obsessive-compulsive disorder include the presence of obsessions, compulsions, or both, where:

_Obsessions_ are recurring thoughts, urges, or images that are experienced as intrusive and unwanted and, for most people, cause anxiety or distress. The individual tries to ignore them, suppress them, or neutralize them with a different thought or action.
_Compulsions_ are repetitive behaviors or mental acts that one feels compelled to do in response to an obsession or based on strict rules. They are meant to counter anxiety or distress or to prevent a feared event or situation, but they are not realistically connected to these outcomes, or they are excessive.
These obsessions or compulsions take up more than one hour a day or cause clinically significant distress or impairment for the individual. For a diagnosis of OCD, they must not be better explained by the effects of a substance or by another mental disorder or medical condition.
The specific details of obsessions can vary widely: They may include thoughts about contamination, a desire for order, or taboo thoughts related to sex, religion, and harm to oneself or others.
In response to their obsessions, most people with OCD resort to compulsions, which may include behaviors such as washing; rearranging or counting objects; seeking reassurance; or checking (to see if an oven is turned off or a door is locked, for example). They can also include mental acts that are not outwardly observable. Compulsions may temporarily relieve feelings that stem from an obsession, including anxiety, distress, or the sense that something is not right.


Both excerpts from Psychology Today


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

daveguy said:


> My wife complains I don't clean enough, but when I do, she stands over me like a Hawk constantly nit picking tell me how I'm doing it wrong.
> I try when she's not home and get chided when she gets home,
> i try in different rooms and ask her to leave me along there and FREAKING MOST Weird thing is, she will then stay/go to a different room and "clean" by stomping and banging very loudly AND throwing away my stuff!
> 
> ...


I don't think it is OCD, but many couples do get into power struggles and use the silliest of things as proxies to wage their power struggles. I would think they would be better off role playing BDSM power exchanges than arguing over vacuuming carpets, folding laundry, or loading a dishwasher. But unfortunately, couples still argue about these things and other things like how to properly make the beds, the correct placement of utensils on the table, toilet seat positions, etc. 

Next time your wife corrects your cleaning technique tell her you will only listen to her if she dresses up in a dominatrix outfit and threatens to gently and erotically whip you should you not follow her instructions. Then smile and laugh. You will have made your point about the power exchange she is trying to enforce. Who knows what might happen next?

Seriously, if this is the worst thing in your marriage, count your glass as half full and don't fixate over it.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Laurentium said:


> Oh great. Then we have two of them "acting out".


If you aren't going to beat them, you might as well join them.

If you aren't going to get away from the fight, you better get in it.

His best bet would be ditch the lunatic but he's not giving that as an option.

Unless she gets professional help, maybe he can just keep getting abused?

I've found that using the exact tactic on someone they have no problem using on you gets things resolved pretty quickly.

They usually go into full melt down or stop cold in shock, never having considered how it would feel to be treated that way.

Don't pretend I was encouraging this as a way of life.

I also mentioned getting her some help because she's obviously not behaving in a healthy way. Don't pretend that wasn't included.

Unless you were just having fun.😉


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Hey @daveguy , can you come back and answer some of these questions?


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## so_sweet (10 mo ago)

To share my experience regarding my husband cleaning:

From the beginning I appreciated any cleaning my husband did around the house and I thanked him for it. If I had to reclean what he had already cleaned, I just did it, I never even thought twice about it and never mentioned it to him. It truly never bothered me if he didn't do an outstandingly perfect job cleaning and I was appreciative of the effort.

Over time he got better at cleaning and now I very rarely need to reclean something he has already cleaned. Even after all these years, I still thank him for cleaning. 

I thank him not because it's a woman's role to clean and he did me a favor because it's his home too and he should clean it too. I thank him because I am genuinely thankful and also I think little tokens of appreciation, like a simple "thank-you", can go a long way in having a harmonious marriage as perhaps it helps avoid feelings of being taken for granted, feeling unappreciated and stuff like that.

Every meal I cook, I get a thank-you from my husband, every day at work after he eats the lunch I made for him, he calls me to chit-chat and always says thank-you, that was a great lunch.

We say thank-you to strangers for opening a door for us, we thank co-workers for their efforts even if they didn't do a perfect job, so why not thank your spouse for the good things they do?

Just my thoughts!


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## Corgi Mum (10 mo ago)

Wolfman1968 said:


> The "correct" way to leave the home toilet is with the seat AND the lid down. That way, nothing can accidentally fall into the toilet bowl.


Correct answer! There are dogs in this house and toilet bowl drinking must be prevented.

My SO is oblivious to clutter and throws nothing away. I don't feel I have the right to toss out anything of his (except the accumulation of candy wrappers) so I bought some decorative bins and when I can't see the surface of the coffee table any more, I sweep all his stuff off it into a bin. In theory he's supposed to go through the bins and chuck stuff he doesn't want and put the rest away properly but that doesn't actually happen and buying more decorative bins got too expensive so now I'm onto cardboard boxes.


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## Corgi Mum (10 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> *Symptoms OCPD*
> Individuals with obsessive-compulsive personality disorder, according to the DSM-5, are overly concerned with orderliness, perfectionism, and control, a pattern that begins by early adulthood and includes four or more of the following:
> 
> A preoccupation with order and details that results in the person missing the point of an activity
> ...


Dear gawd, that's my father to a T 😲


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

I agree with the cleaning. I do it all the time as well and way, way better than my wife...20 years vet, I know how to clean, efficiently and quickly! She complains I put the stuff away and do whatever I please. She complains again I make a long trip to the store. She knows better than to tell me how to clean. When she's staring vapidly at a dirty home, I hand her the duster and tell her to go get it done while I do this.
As to the toilet seat, I agree the proper position is lid down. To many times things magically fall into the toilet and I don't want the pets drinking from them either. Sounds so stupid when she complains in the middle of the night why the lids down? She almost peed herself. Isn't hard to put the lid up and plop down on the seat, geeze.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

There is actually a video, I think it was on YouTube, where the wife got stuck. She was trapped until the firefighters cranked the toilet apart and freed her.

Edit: Untold Stories of the ER show.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Corgi Mum said:


> Correct answer! There are dogs in this house and toilet bowl drinking must be prevented.
> 
> My SO is oblivious to clutter and throws nothing away. I don't feel I have the right to toss out anything of his (except the accumulation of candy wrappers) so I bought some decorative bins and when I can't see the surface of the coffee table any more, I sweep all his stuff off it into a bin. In theory he's supposed to go through the bins and chuck stuff he doesn't want and put the rest away properly but that doesn't actually happen and buying more decorative bins got too expensive so now I'm onto cardboard boxes.


He'd never miss one since he doesn't go through them anyway.


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## ShatteredKat (Mar 23, 2016)

I wonder what wifey is throwing away? Used handkerchiefs? Dirty socks left laying on the floor? Dirty clothes left laying on bathroom floor after disrobing to take a shower? OR?
Is she throwing out the $150 Milwaukee VS drill he left out after mounting a towel rack?

My wife gave me a "ration" regarding cleaning and I told her I would buy her a trailer and set it up in the backyard if she wanted to clutter up the house with her sxxx. I have promised her next time she tries to use MY "mancave" for her sxxx storage - I will open a window and toss all of it out into the yard.

OP - you need to find your gonads I think - mates in good standing don't throw away the others stuff. 

and leave the seat down so a cat can't fall in trying to get a drink


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

ShatteredKat said:


> I told her I would buy her a trailer and set it up in the backyard if she wanted to clutter up the house with her sxxx. I have promised her next time she tries to use MY "mancave" for her sxxx storage - I will open a window and toss all of it out into the yard.


It's hard to deal with a hoarder.


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

Laurentium said:


> It's hard to deal with a hoarder.


Hoaders have a real mental condition. My parents are both Hoarders and their house has always been filthy. I am now probably too far in the other direction, I have adopted minimalism personally. My domains (garage & man cave) could pass military inspection. 

My wife has always been tidy and clean, but I learned to compromise and not get upset or try to force my standards, which are a reaction to how I grew up, on her. The rest of the house has never got to the point of me going cleaning crazy. When the kids were teenagers, I sometimes would have enough and give them a choice. They could clean their rooms or I would go on with trash bags.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

daveguy said:


> I have NEVER understood this.
> We are, or should, each be responsible for our own toilet seat position.
> sheessh, can you imagine if Men demanded Women leave the seat up for US??!
> either is a sexist one way proposition.


That's easy. Just always close the toilet lid. Do it everytime.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

…


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

Mr.Married said:


> …
> View attachment 94327


Damn, that seems familiar


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

BootsAndJeans said:


> Damn, that seems familiar


Girls bathroom for sure!!


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

TinyTbone said:


> Girls bathroom for sure!!


I have my bathroom, the small one with a shower. I try and not use the master bath. It is "her domain"


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

ShatteredKat said:


> I wonder what wifey is throwing away? Used handkerchiefs? Dirty socks left laying on the floor? Dirty clothes left laying on bathroom floor after disrobing to take a shower? OR?
> Is she throwing out the $150 Milwaukee VS drill he left out after mounting a towel rack?
> 
> My wife gave me a "ration" regarding cleaning and I told her I would buy her a trailer and set it up in the backyard if she wanted to clutter up the house with her sxxx. I have promised her next time she tries to use MY "mancave" for her sxxx storage - I will open a window and toss all of it out into the yard.
> ...


But, let the cat take its own chances ..


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

daveguy said:


> Seems pretty good advice. I clean mainly when she's not home, problem is, she's home all the time anymore.
> IF I leave while she's cleaning -IF she's banging stuff around very loudly, I come home to much of my stuff in the garbage.
> We'd never divorce, we have way too much good stuff between us! I'm just trying to work out some of our frustrating painful parts.


That is when you start throwing her crap in the trash. Will not change until you find your balls and quit tolerating her behavior. Ask me how I know. 

My wife used to ***** and complain about how I do laundry..don't like the way I fold, did not wash in order she would, don't clean shower how she wants it cleaned.....guess what, she does all laundry now except for hunting camo....wash, dry, fold.

She cleans the tubs, she mops the floors. If she wants to ***** because it is not the manner she does it....guess what ..that will be her job, I'm done.


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

daveguy said:


> My wife complains I don't clean enough, but when I do, she stands over me like a Hawk constantly nit picking tell me how I'm doing it wrong.
> I try when she's not home and get chided when she gets home,
> i try in different rooms and ask her to leave me along there and FREAKING MOST Weird thing is, she will then stay/go to a different room and "clean" by stomping and banging very loudly AND throwing away my stuff!
> 
> ...


How old are you two?

The first time my threw a temper-tantrum and threw my stuff away would be the last. Adults should act like adults.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

Laurentium said:


> Oh, I'd take it. I'm just not about telling them to put the seat up or down, as if I was their parent.


Oh, when I was referencing a marriage counselor, I wasn't talking about the toilet seat and lid. I was instead referring to the OPs wife dictating how cleaning should be done, the issue of the division or performance of chores, etc.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Laurentium said:


> It's hard to deal with a hoarder.


It is even harder to clean their house prior to selling it after they have died. My wife and I have had to clean first my parents' house and then the house of her parents. We promised each other we would never do that to our kids. I mean who needs 20 years of National Geographic Magazines, ten years of cleaned and neatly stacked styrofoam take-out containers, or four old toilet seats?

A few years ago about the time my wife retired, we downsized, cleaned out our house, sold it, moved into an apartment for a year and then bought a condo.

When you have no place to story things and are forced to box up things you have hoarded so you can move them, getting rid of things becomes much more easy to do. Moving from our house of 30 years, to an apartment and then moving again to a condo; helped us get rid of things. I think as people age, they really should force themselves to move a few times.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

I'm feeling uncomfortable now. I have a rented storage place. And a LOT of books. 



Young at Heart said:


> I think as people age, they really should force themselves to move a few times.


I've done that, gradually stepping down from a 4-bedroom house with double garage, to a one-room flat. A lot of stuff has gone. And I mean many skips-ful. The hardest stuff to get rid of is my parents' old stuff. Their old photographs and stuff.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

saharabay said:


> Women might be complicated from time to time, but the thing that makes them unique is their bipolar character. It would be best to ask her for tips on cleaning specific parts of the house; maybe she will feel better when you do it. Moreover, you can start with the bathroom; if you don't know much about Bathroom cleaning, there are a lot of fo platforms that can teach and guide you. Usually, ladies hate cleaning the bathroom. And of course, you should stay organized and maintain the clean because she will surely appreciate it.


How utterly disgustingly sexist. 🤮

Speak for yourself and no other women, please. I'm a female and I have zero "bipolar character". 

Ladies hate cleaning the bathroom? Soooo . .... men like it more, then? 🤣

Or does everyone just hate cleaning the bathroom?


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## Corgi Mum (10 mo ago)

Livvie said:


> Or does everyone just hate cleaning the bathroom?


Well. I'd rather clean the bathroom than cook...


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## Griswold (2 mo ago)

The rule I have pounded into my kids: Never complain about something that someone has done for you...for free


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## ArthurGPym (Jun 28, 2021)

Go to this site, read the book, absorb. 


https://www.drglover.com/no-more-mr-nice-guy/the-book.html


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