# divorce out of the blue (NPD)



## tagearl (Dec 21, 2013)

If anyone has been faced with this scenario I would really appreciate your help.
To explain, I plan to be on the giving end, not receiving the news. It is not out of any kind of malevolent wish to harm, but simply I have read that under certain circumstances it is the best way to proceed.
My circumstances are a W. with plenty of NPD traits.
We have never managed to talk about issues over 4 years of marriage as there are none, from the emotional void to the anger, the depression, the put downs, etc etc. So I am certain she is completely oblivious to the degree of my unhappiness. So no idea either that divorce is just around the corner. 
Complete blind-sider.
Having gone through the various phases of chaos, realization and acceptance, concering the relationship, I now have a choice of putting up or moving on. I plan to move on.
If anyone has been through something similar, and would like to share I would be keen to know what to possibly expect come the dreadful day when saying it is all over, and even if it is the “best” way to proceed.
Thanks for any help.


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## MountainRunner (Dec 30, 2014)

I've been doing a lot of reading/research on Cluster B personality disorders lately. Back in December I thought I had NPD after stumbling across it during a google search for my issues. I've since been diagnosed with Histrionic Personality Disorder and I'm immersed in a lot of therapy both individual and group.

The way I understand NPD is that most often the individual that has it does not even know it and even will deny it and possible even be against therapy. All I can say at this point is see if you can convince her to go to therapy. I read this book and it was rather sobering. This book is good for those living w/ narcissists and for narcissists themselves. HTH....

http://www.amazon.com/Everything-Gu...-2&keywords=narcissistic+personality+disorder


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

tagearl said:


> If anyone has been through something similar, and would like to share I would be keen to know what to possibly expect come the dreadful day when saying it is all over, and even if it is the “best” way to proceed.
> Thanks for any help.


Expect hysterics.

Possibly violence.


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

There will be Shock...
There will be melodramatics...
There will be heartwrenching acting...

or there will simply be "okay. fine. go."

But I would plan for the first set. 
Narcissists care greatly what the rest of the world thinks about them. Having the veil of perfection lifted off the marriage may cause distress since it will open them up to the perception of shame or pity from outside sources.
They hate that sh1t.

Plan it and make sure you give yourself an escape plan.


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## tagearl (Dec 21, 2013)

SamuraiJack said:


> Narcissists care greatly what the rest of the world thinks about them. Having the veil of perfection lifted off the marriage may cause distress since it will open them up to the perception of shame or pity from outside sources.
> They hate that sh1t.
> 
> Plan it and make sure you give yourself an escape plan.


I agree, having the whole world know it ain't working is going to be the big one, and that is going to spark all sorts of stuff.

I am planning.....but what do mean by an escape plan?

you've seen some light MR, and I wish you well......I wish it were us, I get the feeling I/we are a million miles from acknowledgement and help. The only help books I have used for us have been simply ridiculed


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Is it only me that thinks a completely NON narcissistic person could react in a completely hysterical way when presented, with no warning, with the information that she's being rejected? 

The OP only asserts that his wife has "narcissistic traits," not that she's been even diagnosed, yet y'all jump on the bandwagon of what he should expect, when he, himself, has said they've "never managed to talk about issues." (I kinda take that to mean even with a qualified professional). She has no diagnosis! We only have the OP's word that his wife is the bad one here. 

Unbelievable. Sometimes I question why I even read here.


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

SecondTime'Round said:


> Is it only me that thinks a completely NON narcissistic person could react in a completely hysterical way when presented, with no warning, with the information that she's being rejected?
> 
> The OP only asserts that his wife has "narcissistic traits," not that she's been even diagnosed, yet y'all jump on the bandwagon of what he should expect, when he, himself, has said they've "never managed to talk about issues." (I kinda take that to mean even with a qualified professional). She has no diagnosis! We only have the OP's word that his wife is the bad one here.
> 
> Unbelievable. Sometimes I question why I even read here.


It's the Internet.
The fullness of the question is the indicator...or not.
All anyone can do is comment on what they are given.

...or they could use their energy to ask questions designed to elicit a more finely tuned response...or you can complain about it.
Choices.
If you cared enough to post that response, why cant you focus your energies on more helpful things?
14 calories to post your response...why not something either positive or helpful?


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## MountainRunner (Dec 30, 2014)

I believe I suggested therapy...Which of course would begin with a diagnosis one way or the other. My diagnosis began with....yep...therapy.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

SamuraiJack said:


> It's the Internet.
> The fullness of the question is the indicator...or not.
> All anyone can do is comment on what they are given.
> 
> ...


LOL! OK, I guess I deserved that. Still, I maintain that even a person with zero NPD traits may act hysterically given this info!


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## tagearl (Dec 21, 2013)

SecondTime'Round said:


> Still, I maintain that even a person with zero NPD traits may act hysterically given this info!


I think you miss the point. A person with zero NPD traits would certainly go berserk on such news, but it is unlikely they would find themselves in such a position. The very reason this is being discussed is because W (whatever her label may be) has not responded to any request for dialogue, counseling, help.
But I am not asking for help with my diagnosis.
I am asking for help with the consequences of blind- siding someone with a life changing demand.
And I thank both MR and SJ for doing just that.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

I wouldn't completely "blindside" her. Obviously there's a reason you want to divorce and she has the right to know what has pained you enough to reach the breaking point. You owe her a decent demonstration and heartfelt words.

You seem to write well, so why not drink some alcohol (to stimulate your emotions), go to a quiet corner and write her a very long but 'to the point' letter. Definitely mention the word 'divorce' in your letter. 

Being a possible NPD, she may not take your letter seriously at all, but when you follow your letter with actions, she would not feel as blindsided.

Don't fear her or her reactions. Fear your own insecurities in this. You seem to fear your own guilt. It could be a reasonable guilt, or it could be unreasonable. I don't know because I don't know you. If it's simply the natural empathy you have for her, then it's understandable. If there's more to it, you need to acknowledge and deal with it.


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## tagearl (Dec 21, 2013)

synthetic said:


> Don't fear her or her reactions. Fear your own insecurities in this. You seem to fear your own guilt. It could be a reasonable guilt, or it could be unreasonable. I don't know because I don't know you. If it's simply the natural empathy you have for her, then it's understandable. If there's more to it, you need to acknowledge and deal with it.


Thanks for your input, I will need to work on this last paragraph of yours.......

Not sure I get the alcohol bit. But knowing our verbal exchanges are inconsequential at best, I do send mails. And while not having used the word divorce I have said our inability to address issues is killing our relationship.

Too fluffy?

(btw there was no reply)

Going back to your paragraph.....fear yes quite probably but of what....fights, custody etc ? Empathy, not much of that left. Guilt......NO. 

I think also with this kind of relationship the outside world sees only bliss and harmony, totally unaware of what happens inside closed doors. Why am I busting up such a happy home? Because it isn't. (And that is not an easy call!)


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

SecondTime'Round said:


> LOL! OK, I guess I deserved that. Still, I maintain that even a person with zero NPD traits may act hysterically given this info!


Yes. I believe that a person can also be placed under so much pressure that they resort to PD reactions as a means of survival.

Tagearl, I would make every effort to make it TOTALLY clear that you mean business.

Give it in writing and be clear and keep your limits firm.

As referred to, an "escape plan" is used as an exit if things get too emotionally heated. Maybe crash at a friends house or your parents.

If you do "just tell her", it might come to appoint where emotional triggers only trigger more. When that happens it is time to seek shelter.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

tagearl said:


> Not sure I get the alcohol bit.


Alcohol generally stimulates the brain in ways that emotions can be expressed easier. It's often what poets and writers use to 'get going' on their new piece if there's not enough motivation.




> while not having used the word divorce I have said our inability to address issues is killing our relationship.
> 
> Too fluffy?


Yes. Too fluffy. Issues not being addressed must be met with consequences. If your relationship is getting killed, then you're divorcing. SAY IT!


> (btw there was no reply)


Typical of a narcissist if that's what you think you're dealing with.



> Going back to your paragraph.....fear yes quite probably but of what....fights, custody etc ? Empathy, not much of that left. Guilt......NO.


This is somewhat dishonest. Unless you're a stone, guilt, empathy and fear are all a part of this equation. Don't measure the level of each at this current moment. For a typical kind person without personality disorders, guilt and empathy can shoot up to the sky during separation, divorce and custody battles. 

It can be a blessing for some relationships, but when divorcing a possibly disordered person, it can be a huge pain in the ass and a cause of many regrets. 



> I think also with this kind of relationship the outside world sees only bliss and harmony, totally unaware of what happens inside closed doors. Why am I busting up such a happy home? Because it isn't. (And that is not an easy call!)


The outside world is something we all foolishly and forcefully insert into our life-decisions to the point of accepting abuse as 'normal'.

It's time for you to stop that behavior and face your insecurities (about the outside world's opinion) head on. 

Always consider the worst-case divorce scenario and see if it's any worse than what you're going through right now in the long run. Many times it isn't.


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## tagearl (Dec 21, 2013)

Synthetic – many thanks for your thoughts.
We are presently in separate bedrooms. W said soon I could return soon, that was nice of her . I said I would decide when to return, and that would be after we started having some meaningful discussions. If there were no meaningful discussions, I carried on to say, then the next stage would be separate houses and divorce.
Her reply to divorce was I’m not scared of divorce.
(I guess that now removes any out-of-the-blueness come the real thing)
The following day she came to ask (sarcastically and testingly) if she was to leave (she has her own place available once tenants go). My reply was that we needed to talk first about issues, but my position was unchanged.
Naturally (over the course of the next couple of days) no dialogue happened; “ too tired”, “all you do is aggress me (ie ask questions) “, and an interesting reply “that is my secret garden”, ie not for sharing.
Now two days later the whole matter has now been swept under the carpet and I am certain there will never be any discussions or changes, despite the consequence of divorce. (She may be counting on my gentle nature to buckle and not proceed, hence her lack of concern).
The fear and emotional turmoil that will come with divorce are something to prepare for, but while the intensity of that may be great and difficult to bear, its duration is finite. Otherwise to continue as we are is 24/7 worth of loveless, lifeless crazymaking melancholy. Forever.
I think the exit route is clear, and I am making preparations.
TAM certains helps - thanks


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## jacko jack (Feb 19, 2015)

I am going through the same thing however my wife has said she does not want a divorce, but it seems that she has a form of NPD, mainly from not being accepted by her mother as a child.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

SecondTime'Round said:


> Is it only me that thinks a completely NON narcissistic person could react in a completely hysterical way when presented, with no warning, with the information that she's being rejected?
> 
> The OP only asserts that his wife has "narcissistic traits," not that she's been even diagnosed, yet y'all jump on the bandwagon of what he should expect, when he, himself, has said they've "never managed to talk about issues." (I kinda take that to mean even with a qualified professional). She has no diagnosis! We only have the OP's word that his wife is the bad one here.
> 
> Unbelievable. Sometimes I question why I even read here.




TAM is full of psychiatrists diagnosing based on one party's side of an issue. It's rather comical, don't know why psychiatrists need to go to med school and specialize given that it's so easy a tam reader can diagnose without even having met the spouse. 

But still, I would like to know what op has specifically done to convey his unhappiness and ask for what he needs. It seems like his issues haven't really been brought up, and women are told all the time that they have to be direct with hubby regarding what they need or its not fair to him. I hope op has done this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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