# My Christian wife cheated.



## Pepe1970

Hello everybody. This is a case that requires advise from people who are strong believer christians. Don't get me wrong, any person (Christian or not) here is always appreciated the comments/advise but I need ideas how to deal with these bothering thoughts in order for me to put an order to it.
My wife and I are not just Christian Church goers. We are a very strong relationship with different congregations as leaders. I've always been n charge of the music Dept and she always help as counselor, Sunday school, seminaries and up front in many activities. She's very well educated woman, always made me wonder why she married a drop out of high school like me. Bottom line we've always been under the spot lights in different churches for many years until those churches grow up enough to sustain themselves to the point we're not needed anymore, then we move to the next church that needs help growing.
Now going to the point. Wife and I been married for 17 years, have 3 beautiful kids. I'm 47, she's 41.
Last June 2017 she confirmed my gut feelings of her having an affair (lasted 3 years) which ended a year before her confession.
Now my trouble is not about my relationship with her. She did the tipical cheater wife's lines saying it was my fault because we stop having sex, we grew apart, yada yada. That's something I am very solid I had nothing to do with her doing, it was her own choice and she will answer to the Lord one day for that. We're working in our marriage and connected again to work together helping a new born church where I offered our help as we always done in the past.
Then again my concern is this: should I assume to put her on hold from all the activities that she can help in church?
I mean she said she ended that affair almost two years ago. But I was thinking: we don't live under the old testament where you have to have certain time for purifications after you commit a sin before God. I know now we live under grace and all sin have been forgiven.
My question is: how long should I wait for her to be ready to take over responsibilities at church? Of course nobody knows about all of this we went through. But believing God knows it all, we want to be honest to him and to his church serving together in christian ministry.
This is why I was asking to those who have some time in a church position, maybe any pastor or leader of church, any elder with experience in the Lord. Again I'm will not ignore comments from anybody, even if you are not a believer in anything, after all you still human and also have an opinion to say anything. Thank you all.

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## MJJEAN

I think she would be considered ready when she's sincerely repented her sin to the Lord, has shown remorse and made amends to the one she wronged (you), and has done the work with a therapist (Christian or secular) necessary to understand why she had the affair and how to prevent any future falls from grace.

If she's still placing the blame on you, she's not ready.


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## WorkingOnMe

Is it true you stopped having sex with her? What did you think would be the result of that?


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## Ynot

I am not a "believer". So I will get that out of the way first. And I do not think that the fact that you or your wife are, has anything to do with your problems. The marital issues you are having are compounded by your particular beliefs, but then again so are everybody else's.
Now, your wife had an affair. You do not trust her. Those are everyday issues that have nothing to do with religion.
The only thing I can tell you, is that you need to communicate with her in order to solve your issues. This may and probably does require a third party facilitator or counselor be present to assist the two of you. One thing I would not do, especially since you each belong to different church's is to use a religious counselor. Because your issues are not religious.
Having said that, one thing you should understand is that most affairs do not happen in a vacuum. They don't just happen. They usually happen because someone isn't getting what they need from their SO or there are other issues that are already present and unresolved. THOSE are the issues you need to resolve, not the fact that your SO had an affair or that you no longer trust them. The last two will be resolved one way or another once the real issues are resolved.


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## michzz

If the affair was with anyone she would interact with in this "calling" of yours, that would be a nonstarter for me.

Maybe it is time for a different career strategy? More attention to your marriage instead?


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## farsidejunky

@Quality


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## uhtred

This sounds like a relationship issue, not a religious one.


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## MyRevelation

As others have pointed out ... you have a M problem, not a religious one and you would do well to drop the religion until you can work through your M issues, most likely through D as long term A's don't get R'd ... they get rug swept through self-denial or they get D'd.


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## Affaircare

@Pepe1970

To review some facts, you found out June 2017 (so almost 8 months ago) that your wife had ended her affair June 2016 ... that had started in June 2013. Again, it was an affair that lasted 3 years, she had ended it for a year when you found out, and you found out about 8 months ago. And now she is wondering/wanting/thinking about getting back into church ministry. Is that a good summary?

Here's the way I see it: she is a married woman, so by voluntarily accepting the benefits of marriage (companionship, love, sex) she has agreed to concern herself with the world--her family and husband. (I Corinthians 7:33-34). And you'll notice in that passage, Paul doesn't say that a married woman SHOULD NOT be concerned about how to please her husband...just that the married woman is not able to be "devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit" because as a married woman she agreed to MINISTER TO HER FAMILY AND HER HUSBAND. That's her job now. 

Thus I would say if she has gone to the Lord and made things right with Him, forgiveness for her sin of adultery has been granted from the Lord. He died to pay for that. The next step would be to minister to YOU, her husband. Has she gone to you and made things right with you? Have you offered forgiveness? If not, then that would be the way she would serve the Lord right now and minister to Him--by placing her concern in this world and building a strong, righteous, godly marriage that can not be moved. 

See...there is not set "time" that you can say 'Okay after X months or years so-and-so can return to ministering in the church' because people recover at different rates and take different time to reconcile. But to TRULY minister to the Lord, her first concern would HAVE TO BE to honor her covenant with you, inside and out, in her heart and mind and body....learning how to be and live a faithful life. Has she rebuilt the trust that her actions destroyed? Has she taken personal responsibility, stopped doing the wrong thing, AND STARTED DOING THE RIGHT THING? It's not enough to just stop being unfaithful--she also has to start being FAITHFUL!....and that doesn't mean "How far can I go and not sin?" It means "How can I keep myself as far from that line as possible?" It means practicing personal transparency and including you in all aspects of her life. It means sharing her true thoughts and feelings even when she's afraid you'll be mad. 

If she doing all that and you, @Pepe1970, think and feel she has rebuilt a new foundation of trust for a new marriage...if you think and feel that she has accepted personal responsibility for her choices and actions...if you think and feel that she is a changed and new woman and her actions show this newness....then maybe she is ready to return to ministering outside the marriage. But I'll be honest--I doubt it. As long as both of you are alive, her primary ministry to please the Lord and offer to Him would be a focusing on a godly marriage, and honoring that covenant. As long as she's looking to go outside the marriage "to minister" I suspect she's being independent and looking for some glory, and that is not what pleases God! He wants us to serve our spouses--that IS a ministry!


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## Pepe1970

michzz said:


> If the affair was with anyone she would interact with in this "calling" of yours, that would be a nonstarter for me.
> 
> Maybe it is time for a different career strategy? More attention to your marriage instead?


Nope. The affair was with nothing more than a none believer

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## wilson

You'll get great marriage advice here, but there are other marriage boards out there which are more religion-centric. One of those might be able to provide more of the advice you seek.


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## sokillme

Tell you pastor. Frankly I would not hide it. 

You have biblical grounds to divorce her if you want. Church activities should stop for now. Her marriage should take precedent. She needs consequences and to see what she did.

https://www.amazon.com/Help-Your-Spouse-Heal-Affair/dp/145055332X Make here read this.


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## farsidejunky

Speaking as a Moderator:

The OP is asking for advice, not your opinion on his faith or lifestyle.

If you cannot post the former without the latter, please refrain from posting.


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## michzz

michzz said:


> If the affair was with anyone she would interact with in this "calling" of yours, that would be a nonstarter for me.
> 
> Maybe it is time for a different career strategy? More attention to your marriage instead?





Pepe1970 said:


> Nope. The affair was with nothing more than a none believer
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


Not sure how you would know if the person she cheated with is a nonbeliever. However, your beef has to be with your wife.

If you require a religious context, listen to affaircare's advice.

In any case, there are several things i would do if I were you.

1. Get checked for STDs and have your wife do likewise. Two reasons for that. A. to find out if you were exposed to anything. B. To make your wife see an actual potential impact for her behavior.

2. Consult with a lawyer. I know, I know, you may be angling to do any and all things to save your marriage. However, it is in your best interest to know what your options are.

3. Seek counseling. Religious or otherwise. You have a lot of emotions banging around inside you whether you acknowledge it or not. You need someone to talk to to sort it out. 

4. Continue reading here and posting. It can help you focus.


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## Pepe1970

wilson said:


> You'll get great marriage advice here, but there are other marriage boards out there which are more religion-centric. One of those might be able to provide more of the advice you seek.


Do you know any??

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## Pepe1970

michzz said:


> Not sure how you would know if the person she cheated with is a nonbeliever. However, your beef has to be with your wife.
> 
> If you require a religious context, listen to affaircare's advice.
> 
> In any case, there are several things i would do if I were you.
> 
> 1. Get checked for STDs and have your wife do likewise. Two reasons for that. A. to find out if you were exposed to anything. B. To make your wife see an actual potential impact for her behavior.
> 
> 2. Consult with a lawyer. I know, I know, you may be angling to do any and all things to save your marriage. However, it is in your best interest to know what your options are.
> 
> 3. Seek counseling. Religious or otherwise. You have a lot of emotions banging around inside you whether you acknowledge it or not. You need someone to talk to to sort it out.
> 
> 4. Continue reading here and posting. It can help you focus.


Well I don't think I will find counseling better that you guys here. Many of you am sure lived infidelity in your own flesh. No counselor can beat that

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## minimalME

I'm a Christian, but not in any type of leadership role - or a churchgoer at all at the moment.



Pepe1970 said:


> *Now my trouble is not about my relationship with her.* She did the tipical cheater wife's lines saying it was my fault because we stop having sex, we grew apart, yada yada. That's something I am very solid I had nothing to do with her doing, it was her own choice and she will answer to the Lord one day for that.


Not quite so fast. 

An affair IS about your relationship with her, and women cheat for very different reasons than men.

Do you have a healthy sex life? Or are you in a sexless marriage? It matters.

Did you indeed grow apart? Or, as the husband and leader of your family, have _you_ been putting your family first?

I ask because a lot of men in ministry get their value and worth out of the work they do. And very often, their families suffer for it.

Family life can be hard. It can be much easier to escape into a world where, as you said, you're in the spotlight.




> Then again my concern is this:*should I assume to put her on hold* from all the activities that she can help in church?


I'm not a feminist, but I literally almost laughed out loud. Should you assume to put her on hold???

You don't get to make that decision. She's a grown woman - not your child.

I mean, I guess if she bows to your authority and is willing to do what you say, that's one thing. That's between the two of you. But, honestly, she's already shown that, within the deepest part of her, she doesn't respect your leadership. 

I could be completely wrong, but to me the disrespect is either because she finds you weak and wanting, or overbearing and she's trying to find a way to escape.



> My question is: *how long should I wait* for her to be ready to take over responsibilities at church? Of course nobody knows about all of this we went through. But believing God knows it all, we want to be honest to him and to his church serving together in christian ministry.


You wait until she initiates. You wait until she's ready. And maybe she never will be. You prodding her about it, because it's something you want/expect, probably won't help.


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## wilson

Pepe1970 said:


> Do you know any??
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


I don't know the religious marriage boards well enough to be able to make a recommend to you. You can find many by searching for "christian marriage forum".


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## Pepe1970

Affaircare said:


> @Pepe1970
> 
> To review some facts, you found out June 2017 (so almost 8 months ago) that your wife had ended her affair June 2016 ... that had started in June 2013. Again, it was an affair that lasted 3 years, she had ended it for a year when you found out, and you found out about 8 months ago. And now she is wondering/wanting/thinking about getting back into church ministry. Is that a good summary?
> 
> Here's the way I see it: she is a married woman, so by voluntarily accepting the benefits of marriage (companionship, love, sex) she has agreed to concern herself with the world--her family and husband. (I Corinthians 7:33-34). And you'll notice in that passage, Paul doesn't say that a married woman SHOULD NOT be concerned about how to please her husband...just that the married woman is not able to be "devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit" because as a married woman she agreed to MINISTER TO HER FAMILY AND HER HUSBAND. That's her job now.
> 
> Thus I would say if she has gone to the Lord and made things right with Him, forgiveness for her sin of adultery has been granted from the Lord. He died to pay for that. The next step would be to minister to YOU, her husband. Has she gone to you and made things right with you? Have you offered forgiveness? If not, then that would be the way she would serve the Lord right now and minister to Him--by placing her concern in this world and building a strong, righteous, godly marriage that can not be moved.
> 
> See...there is not set "time" that you can say 'Okay after X months or years so-and-so can return to ministering in the church' because people recover at different rates and take different time to reconcile. But to TRULY minister to the Lord, her first concern would HAVE TO BE to honor her covenant with you, inside and out, in her heart and mind and body....learning how to be and live a faithful life. Has she rebuilt the trust that her actions destroyed? Has she taken personal responsibility, stopped doing the wrong thing, AND STARTED DOING THE RIGHT THING? It's not enough to just stop being unfaithful--she also has to start being FAITHFUL!....and that doesn't mean "How far can I go and not sin?" It means "How can I keep myself as far from that line as possible?" It means practicing personal transparency and including you in all aspects of her life. It means sharing her true thoughts and feelings even when she's afraid you'll be mad.
> 
> If she doing all that and you, @Pepe1970, think and feel she has rebuilt a new foundation of trust for a new marriage...if you think and feel that she has accepted personal responsibility for her choices and actions...if you think and feel that she is a changed and new woman and her actions show this newness....then maybe she is ready to return to ministering outside the marriage. But I'll be honest--I doubt it. As long as both of you are alive, her primary ministry to please the Lord and offer to Him would be a focusing on a godly marriage, and honoring that covenant. As long as she's looking to go outside the marriage "to minister" I suspect she's being independent and looking for some glory, and that is not what pleases God! He wants us to serve our spouses--that IS a ministry!


Thank you that's very profound

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## Pepe1970

WorkingOnMe said:


> Is it true you stopped having sex with her? What did you think would be the result of that?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Didn't stop at all but it decreased critically

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## Luvher4life

It is my opinion that you both need to take a break from the ministry and work on your marriage first. You still need to be in fellowship by attending church, but you won't truly be able to minister to others if you're not keeping your own house in order. Others would see you as hypocritical if they sought counsel from you and found out that you don't practice what you preach. You two need a "come to Jesus" heart-to-heart prayer meeting with each other. She will have to ABSOLUTELY make amends to you for what she has done. No gas lighting, no rug sweeping, no blame shifting, or anything that points toward you sharing the blame. What she did is solely on her no matter what she says or feels. She absolutely has to take FULL responsibility for her actions. If she doesn't make amends, showing true repentance, and recommitting to you and her family, you have choices to make. Everything she has or does needs to be open to scrutiny, i.e. phones, computers, where she is at all times, etc., from now on, and anytime you see fit to check.

By the way, if you feel in any way that she hasn't fully repented, and accepted responsibility for her actions, or find that you can't regain the trust necessary for a marriage to work, you can divorce her Biblically, as well as legally.

Honestly, once the trust in a marriage has been broken by infidelity it is extremely difficult to overcome. Some couples can overcome it. Maybe y'all are one of those? I couldn't do it myself, but that's just me.

If you need to find other Believers that have been through this, try The Marriage Bed. It's has a forum for this.


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## toucheturtle

you sad this happen over a long period of time and this is just beyond repair.i am a believer and the bible s clear on this issue.you will never even start to heal unless this person s out of you life permanently.the bible talks about this sin not to even be mention among you.a person cant lead or shepherd people when you cant keep you own household in order.i know i know what about others that have fallen from grace well have you noticed that big bucks is always connected to it.i will seek prayer for you and your family.


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## Rowan

OP, I recommend the books, _Surviving an Affair_, _Lovebusters_ and _His Needs, Her Needs_. All are by Willard Harley and all are written for a Christian audience. Basically, they will lead you through the steps necessary to recover from the affair - should you choose to do so - then teach you two how to stop doing things that drain the love from your marriage and start doing things that meet one another's most important emotional needs. Just overcoming the affair will only get you partway. After that, you need to build a new, stronger, marriage that will be closer to "affair-proof" than your old one. 

The openness, honesty, transparency and accountability that will be required from your wife in order to truly reconcile the marriage, will also be required of you in order to sustain a recovered marriage. Once the wayward spouse does the hard work necessary for recovery, then both spouses will need to do the work necessary to build a strong marriage and sustain it into the future.


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## Adelais

I am not in leadership, but am a Christian, having chosen to accept Jesus's gift of forgiveness at the age of 30. I am now 57.

Your wife does know that before Jesus died for her sins, she would have deserved to be stoned to death for her actions...adultery is that serious?

She blamed you because you weren't having sex and had grown apart? Can she show us in the Bible where that is a reason to commit adultery?

It doesn't sound like she has come to terms, or taken full responsibility for her choices...for 3 years....to deceive on a regular basis...not only you, but the people she was counseling, teaching, etc.

Until she fully repents, and perhaps makes a public confession of her "former life" I wouldn't want her teaching me or my children in Sunday school, counseling me or any of my family, teaching me or my children from the pulpit, or talking to me about personal holiness, God, etc.

She is a huge stumbling block for anyone who is seeking God and trusts their leaders to be living holy lives as best as possible. She is the type of Christian that causes other Christians to leave the fellowship of Christians in church with disgust. She is the type of Christian that non believers point to and then say all Christians are hypocrites.

She should not be in any ministry to anyone outside her own home until she fully repents of AND OWNS her egregiously deceptive, selfish actions.

It sounds like you rug swept and let her off easily, so you could continue in your profession (ministry?) Did you want no disruptions to your profession? Is your ministry more important than fully dealing with your wife's adultery and building a marriage that glorifies God? Since you and your wife didn't leave the ministry for a time to work on your marriage, making money another way for a while, I am inclined to believe that church planting is your profession, not a ministry. God is spoken of in theory, but not in practice. YKWIM?

At this point, I believe you need to step down from your "ministries" as your own house is out of order. Once your wife fully owns her behavior, she might have a good ministry to adulterers and sex addicts in Celebrate Recovery, but that is all. She needs to use her experience with the sin of adultery to help others struggling with the same.


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## sokillme

Pepe1970 said:


> Well I don't think I will find counseling better that you guys here. Many of you am sure lived infidelity in your own flesh. No counselor can beat that
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


You need targeted counseling. You will only get general counsel here. Christian or not you wife is messed up and needs to work very hard to change or she will end up doing it again. She must deal with the consequences for her sin especially not how you were as a partner. 

Ask your wife why you shouldn't cheat now? After all she cheated because she wasn't happy with you, well now you have a wife who had a 3 year affair, using her logic you are well within your rights as she is a lousy wife. 

Also I would make sure that she understands from a Christian point of view God takes a very harsh view of her actions. Under the old testament law she would have been put to death. Under the new testament you are under no obligation to continue being married to her. 

What are the ages of your kids? 

Also many churches make the WS confess to the congregation. See what she thinks about that. Now I am not saying do it, but float the idea.

The leadership of your church must be informed.


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## Adelais

Affaircare said:


> But to TRULY minister to the Lord, her first concern would HAVE TO BE to honor her *covenant* with you, inside and out, in her heart and mind and body....learning how to be and live a faithful life.
> 
> Has she rebuilt the trust that her actions destroyed? Has she taken personal responsibility, stopped doing the wrong thing, AND STARTED DOING THE RIGHT THING? It's not enough to just stop being unfaithful--she also has to start being FAITHFUL!....and that doesn't mean "How far can I go and not sin?"
> 
> "How can I keep myself as far from that line as possible?" It means practicing *personal transparency *and including you in all aspects of her life. It means sharing her true thoughts and feelings even when she's afraid you'll be mad.
> 
> As long as both of you are alive,* her primary ministry to please the Lord and offer to Him would be a focusing on a godly marriage, and honoring that covenant.
> *
> *As long as she's looking to go outside the marriage "to minister" I suspect she's being independent and looking for some glory, and that is not what pleases God!
> 
> He wants us to serve our spouses--that IS a ministry!*


^^^^^^This too!!^^^^^^


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## Pepe1970

Araucaria said:


> I am not in leadership, but am a Christian, having chosen to accept Jesus's gift of forgiveness at the age of 30. I am now 57.
> 
> Your wife does know that before Jesus died for her sins, she would have deserved to be stoned to death for her actions...adultery is that serious?
> 
> She blamed you because you weren't having sex and had grown apart? Can she show us in the Bible where that is a reason to commit adultery?
> 
> It doesn't sound like she has come to terms, or taken full responsibility for her choices...for 3 years....to deceive on a regular basis...not only you, but the people she was counseling, teaching, etc.
> 
> Until she fully repents, and perhaps makes a public confession of her "former life" I wouldn't want her teaching me or my children in Sunday school, counseling me or any of my family, teaching me or my children from the pulpit, or talking to me about personal holiness, God, etc.
> 
> She is a huge stumbling block for anyone who is seeking God and trusts their leaders to be living holy lives as best as possible. She is the type of Christian that causes other Christians to leave the fellowship of Christians in church with disgust. She is the type of Christian that non believers point to and then say all Christians are hypocrites.
> 
> She should not be in any ministry to anyone outside her own home until she fully repents of AND OWNS her egregiously deceptive, selfish actions.
> 
> It sounds like you rug swept and let her off easily, so you could continue in your profession (ministry?) Did you want no disruptions to your profession? Is your ministry more important than fully dealing with your wife's adultery and building a marriage that glorifies God? Since you and your wife didn't leave the ministry for a time to work on your marriage, making money another way for a while, I am inclined to believe that church planting is your profession, not a ministry. God is spoken of in theory, but not in practice. YKWIM?
> 
> At this point, I believe you need to step down from your "ministries" as your own house is out of order. Once your wife fully owns her behavior, she might have a good ministry to adulterers and sex addicts in Celebrate Recovery, but that is all. She needs to use her experience with the sin of adultery to help others struggling with the same.


Thank you for your words

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## Adelais

Pepe1970 said:


> Thank you for your words
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


I asked you several questions to help me and others on the forum understand your situation. Would you mind answering them?


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## Pepe1970

Pepe1970 said:


> Thank you for your words
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


Just to clarify to everybody.
The time she was having the affair, we weren't in the ministry.
As soon as I realized we needed to work in our marriage, we stop working at all for churches.
And by the way, when I say "working", we never got paid for what we were doing. Our only salary was the joy (at least mine) of seeing full blossoming established churches over and over. We never got a penny from what we were doing. God was enough for us, or at least for me.
Many people don't know what that mean.
I never had it as a professional, it was always a mission regardless what was happening "behind my back"

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## Pepe1970

Araucaria said:


> I asked you several questions to help me and others on the forum understand your situation. Would you mind answering them?


I am very sorry, go ahead

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## Pepe1970

Pepe1970 said:


> I am very sorry, go ahead
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


The thing is that I am at work and I check all comments when I take a five

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## Diana7

I would suggest that you both go and tell the pastor and ask his advise. If she is still blaming you, then she isn't really sorry or repentant. 
You are free to end the marriage or stay, but I do think that you need the help of a mature Christian marriage counsellor to get through this and challenge her on what she did. Three years is a very long to time to cheat lie and deceive and she needs some strong boundaries with other men as well as being completely open to you with her phone etc. 
Not telling anyone isn't a good idea. 
As for her church work, she needs to stand down for some time, and I am guessing that the pastor will advise this also. How can she counsel others on their issues when she has acted this way for so long? 

At the moment there have been no consequences for her affair at all. You haven't left her, no one has been told, she is still blaming you, you both have a long way to go.


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## Pepe1970

Pepe1970 said:


> The thing is that I am at work and I check all comments when I take a five
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


Unfortunately nowadays it's so easy brake any rule of integrity anywhere that it makes it extremely hard to stay in the path. Nobody's perfect, no exceptions for me and yes I admit my apathy toward the working in my marriage. For many I am the stupidest man alive for just forgiving her.

The night she confessed it to me, you know what I said to her????
"Neither do i condemn you, don't do it again"

I know treason is painful, am living it. And also many of you out there.
But you see, that's the kind of things that let you know who you are in Jesus.
That the kind of things let you know how deep is your relationship with God even in our soooo inperfect messy world.

Sorry for the chatter, lol

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## Pepe1970

sokillme said:


> You need targeted consoling. You will only get general counsel here. Christian or not you wife is messed up and needs to work very hard to change or she will end up doing it again. She must deal with the consequences for her sin especially not how you were as a partner.
> 
> Ask your wife why you shouldn't cheat now? After all she cheated because she wasn't happy with you, well now you have a wife who had a 3 year affair, using her logic you are well within your rights as she is a lousy wife.
> 
> Also I would make sure that she understands from a Christian point of view God takes a very harsh view of her actions. Under the old testament law she would have been put to death. Under the new testament you are under no obligation to continue being married to her.
> 
> What are the ages of your kids?
> 
> Also many churches make the WS confess to the congregation. See what she thinks about that. Now I am not saying do it, but float the idea.
> 
> The leadership of your church must be informed.


7,10,14

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## Adelais

Pepe1970 said:


> Just to clarify to everybody.
> The time she was having the affair, we weren't in the ministry.
> As soon as I realized we needed to work in our marriage, we stop working at all for churches.
> And by the way, when I say "working", we never got paid for what we were doing. Our only salary was the joy (at least mine) of seeing full blossoming established churches over and over. We never got a penny from what we were doing. God was enough for us, or at least for me.
> Many people don't know what that mean.
> I never had it as a professional, it was always a mission regardless what was happening "behind my back"
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


So you took 3 years off from the ministry exactly at the same time your wife, unbeknownst to you, was having an affair and then you also took time off to work on your marriage? According to your timeline, she told you a year ago, the affair ended a year before that, and it lasted for 3 years before that. That adds up to 5 years ago she started having an affair, and you've been dealing with it since then, except for the year after it ended until she told you a year ago. When were you in the ministry? When were you not in the ministry?

How long did you take off when she told you of her affair?

I don't begrudge people in full time ministries being paid. Missionaries have to eat and pay their bills. It sounded like you spent a lot of time planting churches or helping several churches at a time, so I thought you would be paid staff by whoever was backing your ministry.


----------



## sokillme

Pepe1970 said:


> Unfortunately nowadays it's so easy brake any rule of integrity anywhere that it makes it extremely hard to stay in the path. Nobody's perfect, no exceptions for me and yes I admit my apathy toward the working in my marriage. For many I am the stupidest man alive for just forgiving her.
> 
> The night she confessed it to me, you know what I said to her????
> "Neither do i condemn you, don't do it again"
> 
> I know treason is painful, am living it. And also many of you out there.
> But you see, that's the kind of things that let you know who you are in Jesus.
> That the kind of things let you know how deep is your relationship with God even in our soooo inperfect messy world.
> 
> Sorry for the chatter, lol
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


It's easy to brake the rules of integrity it's not easy to have a second life for 3 years. You don't have a right to condemn her as a person but you have a right to hold her accountable as your wife and mother of your children.

What has she done to provide healing for you? What has she done to provide restitution?


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## Luvher4life

Pepe1970 said:


> Unfortunately nowadays it's so easy brake any rule of integrity anywhere that it makes it extremely hard to stay in the path. Nobody's perfect, no exceptions for me and yes I admit my apathy toward the working in my marriage. For many I am the stupidest man alive for just forgiving her.
> 
> The night she confessed it to me, you know what I said to her????
> "Neither do i condemn you, don't do it again"
> 
> I know treason is painful, am living it. And also many of you out there.
> But you see, that's the kind of things that let you know who you are in Jesus.
> That the kind of things let you know how deep is your relationship with God even in our soooo inperfect messy world.
> 
> Sorry for the chatter, lol
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


I'm sorry, Brother, but there needs to be consequences for her actions. You, in essence, told her that what she did was "okay", when the reality is it is NOT okay.

As men, we don't have the ability to forgive and forget something like that with words. Forgiving is one thing, but it REQUIRES repentance. Even God doesn't forgive without repentance.

Forgetting is not something that we are capable of, in my opinion. She has to repent (to God and to you) and make amends for what she has done, and suffer consequences for it accordingly. Otherwise, the doubts will continue to erode the marriage. It "should" be her cross to bear to make the marriage work, not yours.


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## Adelais

Pepe1970 said:


> Unfortunately nowadays it's so easy brake any rule of integrity anywhere that it makes it extremely hard to stay in the path. Nobody's perfect, no exceptions for me and yes I admit my apathy toward the working in my marriage. For many I am the stupidest man alive for just forgiving her.
> 
> The night she confessed it to me, you know what I said to her????
> "Neither do i condemn you, don't do it again"
> 
> That is just amazing. You can't see into her mind to know if she is truly repentant, and you know she cheated (had sex with another man while also having sex with you) for 3 whole years!! If you were Jesus, and knew what was going on in her mind, I'd say great. But you are just a man. I think you rugswept the issue, and stuffed your feelings there.
> 
> I know treason is painful, am living it. And also many of you out there.
> But you see, that's the kind of things that let you know who you are in Jesus.
> That the kind of things let you know how deep is your relationship with God even in our soooo inperfect messy world.
> 
> What you described here is the goal. Most people, even Christians who have the help of God by his Spirit, do not have that out flowing of God's nature, His ability to forgive, love, and nerves of steel.
> 
> God Bless you, Pepe. May you be a testimony of what God does in people's hearts and lives.
> 
> (Your wife....not so much. Not trying to be mean, but she is not a testimony of God's love and faithfulness. She is blessed to have you as a husband, however.)
> 
> Does your wife know what the consequences are if she is unfaithful again? Are you going to forgive her 70 times 7? Please do not be a cuckold. She needs consequences, unless God has called you to be a Hosea. I'm not being flippant by saying that, because I know that God is still at work in the world.
> 
> Sorry for the chatter, lol
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


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## bandit.45

I think what MJJean said earlier is dead on: Until your wife shows you true repentance, takes full responsibility for her poor choices, and works actively with you to rebuild your relationship, nothing is going to change. From what you are telling us, it would seem you never got any real apology or empathy from her and are therefore unable to move on and work through the pain. 

First off, even though you are tasked with being the spiritual leader of your home, your wife had a responsibility to bring her frustrations to you and to tell you if she was unhappy in the marriage. But she didn't do that. She took the easy, coward's way out and got her emotional feeding elsewhere in exchange for sex. 

We need some specifics if we are toi really help you fully.

Who was the OM? 

When did the affair start and when did it end?

Why did it end? 

Did your wife break it off or was she dumped by her lover? 

Why were you and your wife not having sex? 

We need to know some specifics to get a clear picture of what went down.


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## JayDee7

Honestly, she should not serve as a leader in any fashion at church. When you’re a leader you’ve accepted a responsibility to live a moral life and to be light to others. Your wife, forgiven as she may be by God and by you, has not lived up to the leadership role and just should not lead others. She is an adulterer. She committed the grave sin of adultery over and over again for a couple of years. She can be forgiven, but how can she take up a role in leadership again? 
Think of other commandments, think of other church leaders, how about if you had church leaders that have broken all of the commandements, then repented, should they resume leadership? Of course they can repent and be forgiven by God but should they resume a role in leading others after breaking a commandment? A serious commandment like adultery? Would you trust a repented fornicator with your family? Woild you trust a repented adulterer with your wife? Would other women trust your wife around their husbands? At church they should not ever have to think about that because the church should weed adulterers and fornicators out of leadership for the good of the flock. Of course you can keep it a secret. Would you like it if a repented adulterer was in church leadership and you did not know it and he was leading women and men in the church? Is that good for the flock? How would you like that?

I’m pretty old fashioned when it comes to matters of sex, I admit it. Adultery is a sin against God, against the spouse, against the family, against the other spouse and family, and against one’s self. If it were my church I would not want her in leadership unless everyone knew about her adulterous past and she was open about it and everyone knew she was repented.


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## MattMatt

Pepe1970 said:


> Hello everybody. This is a case that requires advise from people who are strong believer christians. Don't get me wrong, any person (Christian or not) here is always appreciated the comments/advise but I need ideas how to deal with these bothering thoughts in order for me to put an order to it.
> My wife and I are not just Christian Church goers. We are a very strong relationship with different congregations as leaders. I've always been n charge of the music Dept and she always help as counselor, Sunday school, seminaries and up front in many activities. She's very well educated woman, always made me wonder why she married a drop out of high school like me. Bottom line we've always been under the spot lights in different churches for many years until those churches grow up enough to sustain themselves to the point we're not needed anymore, then we move to the next church that needs help growing.
> Now going to the point. Wife and I been married for 17 years, have 3 beautiful kids. I'm 47, she's 41.
> Last June 2017 she confirmed my gut feelings of her having an affair (lasted 3 years) which ended a year before her confession.
> Now my trouble is not about my relationship with her. She did the tipical cheater wife's lines saying it was my fault because we stop having sex, we grew apart, yada yada. That's something I am very solid I had nothing to do with her doing, it was her own choice and she will answer to the Lord one day for that. We're working in our marriage and connected again to work together helping a new born church where I offered our help as we always done in the past.
> Then again my concern is this: should I assume to put her on hold from all the activities that she can help in church?
> I mean she said she ended that affair almost two years ago. But I was thinking: we don't live under the old testament where you have to have certain time for purifications after you commit a sin before God. I know now we live under grace and all sin have been forgiven.
> My question is: how long should I wait for her to be ready to take over responsibilities at church? Of course nobody knows about all of this we went through. But believing God knows it all, we want to be honest to him and to his church serving together in christian ministry.
> This is why I was asking to those who have some time in a church position, maybe any pastor or leader of church, any elder with experience in the Lord. Again I'm will not ignore comments from anybody, even if you are not a believer in anything, after all you still human and also have an opinion to say anything. Thank you all.
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


If she wants positions at church, that's for her to decide. It's between her and God.


----------



## ConanHub

Pepe1970 said:


> Hello everybody. This is a case that requires advise from people who are strong believer christians. Don't get me wrong, any person (Christian or not) here is always appreciated the comments/advise but I need ideas how to deal with these bothering thoughts in order for me to put an order to it.
> My wife and I are not just Christian Church goers. We are a very strong relationship with different congregations as leaders. I've always been n charge of the music Dept and she always help as counselor, Sunday school, seminaries and up front in many activities. She's very well educated woman, always made me wonder why she married a drop out of high school like me. Bottom line we've always been under the spot lights in different churches for many years until those churches grow up enough to sustain themselves to the point we're not needed anymore, then we move to the next church that needs help growing.
> Now going to the point. Wife and I been married for 17 years, have 3 beautiful kids. I'm 47, she's 41.
> Last June 2017 she confirmed my gut feelings of her having an affair (lasted 3 years) which ended a year before her confession.
> Now my trouble is not about my relationship with her. She did the tipical cheater wife's lines saying it was my fault because we stop having sex, we grew apart, yada yada. That's something I am very solid I had nothing to do with her doing, it was her own choice and she will answer to the Lord one day for that. We're working in our marriage and connected again to work together helping a new born church where I offered our help as we always done in the past.
> Then again my concern is this: should I assume to put her on hold from all the activities that she can help in church?
> I mean she said she ended that affair almost two years ago. But I was thinking: we don't live under the old testament where you have to have certain time for purifications after you commit a sin before God. I know now we live under grace and all sin have been forgiven.
> My question is: how long should I wait for her to be ready to take over responsibilities at church? Of course nobody knows about all of this we went through. But believing God knows it all, we want to be honest to him and to his church serving together in christian ministry.
> This is why I was asking to those who have some time in a church position, maybe any pastor or leader of church, any elder with experience in the Lord. Again I'm will not ignore comments from anybody, even if you are not a believer in anything, after all you still human and also have an opinion to say anything. Thank you all.
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


She needs to confess what she did and repent. That means doing everything she can to make it right. She didn't just sin against you.


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## ConanHub

Pepe1970 said:


> Unfortunately nowadays it's so easy brake any rule of integrity anywhere that it makes it extremely hard to stay in the path. Nobody's perfect, no exceptions for me and yes I admit my apathy toward the working in my marriage. For many I am the stupidest man alive for just forgiving her.
> 
> The night she confessed it to me, you know what I said to her????
> "Neither do i condemn you, don't do it again"
> 
> I know treason is painful, am living it. And also many of you out there.
> But you see, that's the kind of things that let you know who you are in Jesus.
> That the kind of things let you know how deep is your relationship with God even in our soooo inperfect messy world.
> 
> Sorry for the chatter, lol
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


I think you need a little more passion and heat. God isn't cold when his bride is unfaithful.


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## OutofRetirement

Pepe1970 said:


> She did the tipical cheater wife's lines saying it was my fault because we stop having sex, we grew apart, yada yada. That's something I am very solid I had nothing to do with her doing, it was her own choice and she will answer to the Lord one day for that.


You mention she said all the typical cheater wife's lines, but never do you say she ever took full responsibility for her own actions.

You say she is a counselor in the church.

If a married woman was considering infidelity in a similar situation of your wife's situation, what do you think your wife would advise?



Pepe1970 said:


> I know treason is painful, am living it.


Your wife may have physically stopped cheating, but it seems she has what I would call a cheating mindset. Which is to blame other people, not accept their own actions. You know, my wife takes a long time to get ready, frequently makes me late. I have to drive very fast, and I got a lot of tickets, and lost my driver's license. This is my wife's fault, correct? Maybe a bad analogy, but it sounds like your wife believes you hold the key to her faithfulness - or not. As long as you do everything she wants, she will not cheat. The minute you don't toe the line, she has good reason to cheat.

Please tell me I wasted posting this, and that your wife has since told you she's completley responsible for her own actions.



Pepe1970 said:


> Then again my concern is this: should I assume to put her on hold from all the activities that she can help in church?
> 
> My question is: how long should I wait for her to be ready to take over responsibilities at church?


She cheated for three years. She lied another year (at least by omission, though I suspect you asked her a number of times and she denied before finally admitting). It seems she still hasn't improved much as far as fixing the problems with the cheating. She is committed to you, but only because you keep quiet and swallow it. You have to think about that. What is best for you? What is best for your children? What is best even for your wife? Is allowing you to believe and act the ways she is about the affair the right thing to do? Would you allow your children to deflect responsibility like your wife apparently is?

Also consider - your wife has thoughts going on in her head, and she is not expressing those thoughts to you. Her commitment to the marriage is not the same as your commitment. She was willing to risk losing the marriage. I sense that you are not willing to risk it.

Assuming those circumstances, I think you and her should work to resolve your differences, get on the same page as far as how the cheating started, lasted, ended, that you both mostly agree on how it happened, the options available, what she should have done, what you should have done, so you can once again be closer to one.

I'm sorry if I read between the lines. If I'm wrong, correct me.


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## OutofRetirement

I get the sense that you wanting, or her wanting, to get back involved, is a great amount of time and effort to distract the differences and problems you must resolve.


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## Diana7

When you say 
"Unfortunately nowadays it's so easy brake any rule of integrity anywhere that it makes it extremely hard to stay in the path"

you are trying to excuse her behaviour by implying that she couldn't really help it because its so EASY to break any rule of integrity. No Its not easy, for most Christians adultery is a complete no no. Its not as if it was a once off occasion either. For three whole years she made the decision again and again to go to this man and have sex with him. She made the decision to cheat on you, her children, risk her marriage, risk her children's well being, disobey God, lie and deceive for 3 while years. She then kept it from you for another year. 

As for her ministry, surely that's largely up to the pastor of the church? Of course he hasn't the option of being able to make that decision because you haven't even told him, which you need to asap BTW. I don't think she is anywhere near ready to be in any sort of counselling ministry, and may not be for many years. 

Has she done everything she can to repent and put things right? Has she suggested some good marriage counselling? Taken complete responsibility for all she did without blaming you? Has she give you complete access to her phones etc? Has she put into place good boundaries to prevent this happening again? If this man was at her workplace has she changed jobs? 
If the OM is married have you both told his wife?

Honestly this has been dealt with very badly. She now thinks that she can cheat again with no consequences because you will just forgive immediately and she can just carry on as normal. By blaming you, even a bit, she isn't taking responsibility. She is justifying adultery by claiming that you didn't do this or that so it was justified. Adultery is never justified and is a very serious sin in the Bible.

At the very least you need to tell the pastor and get Christian marriage counsellors to help you deal with this in a more healthy way.


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## ABHale

Many people that go to Church and claim to be saved are not. I have a hard time believing someone living in sin can also be a Christian. 

Don’t get me wrong we all sin, me included. Your wife lived in sin for three years. It wasn’t a one time mistake like a ONS. 

I don’t think she has any business with a Church until she makes sure she is right with God first. 

So no, she has no business helping in the Church.


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## Quality

The husband's sanctifying role in marriage


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## VladDracul

Pepe my man, my only advise is to find out why this woman felt the need to go elsewhere. Typically women don't stray if they have a high romantic interest in their husbands. The fact she did tells me she has a low romantic interest in you. Some will tell you that women like sex as much as men. That's true, but they like sex most with someone they have a high romantic interest in. If she blames you for her "misdemeanors", like it not, right or wrong, its likely her perception. If she still has that perception, you could be in the same fix down the road.


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## manfromlamancha

I notice my post in this thread was deleted - anyone know by who and why ???


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## Mr Blunt

> Quote of Pepe
> My question is: how long should I wait for her to be ready to take over responsibilities at church? Of course nobody knows about all of this we went through. But believing God knows it all, we want to be honest to him and to his church serving together in Christian ministry.


If and when your wife goes back to being a counselor at the church don’t you think that you should be open and honest with the church about her Christian failures?

Your wife betrayed you and your children for three years and initially blamed you for the cheating. Your number one concern now is the question of her being ready to take over responsibilities of the church? 

Are you really more concerned about her responsibilities at the church rather than her and you doing everything possible to heal the serious relationship fracture that has damaged the family?

It is very commendable that you are so dedicated to the church and have spoken as Christ spoke and said when she first confessed; "Neither do I condemn you, don't do it again". Jesus said those words to the adulterous woman after He saved her from being killed by stoning. I have no doubt that you did not want your wife stoned but that is different than forgiveness after true repentance, reconciliation and restoration.


What is your number one priority? 
*Is your number one priority true repentance, true forgiveness, reconciliation, and restoration or : “how long should I wait for her to be ready to take over responsibilities at church?”*


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## GusPolinski

Well I’ll be... it’s a cart pulling a horse.

Wait — that doesn’t make any sense.


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## Andy1001

GusPolinski said:


> Well I’ll be... it’s a cart pulling a horse.
> 
> Wait — that doesn’t make any sense.


No,it’s a horse pulling a mare.
A reluctant mare.


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## Pepe1970

Araucaria said:


> So you took 3 years off from the ministry exactly at the same time your wife, unbeknownst to you, was having an affair and then you also took time off to work on your marriage? According to your timeline, she told you a year ago, the affair ended a year before that, and it lasted for 3 years before that. That adds up to 5 years ago she started having an affair, and you've been dealing with it since then, except for the year after it ended until she told you a year ago. When were you in the ministry? When were you not in the ministry?
> 
> How long did you take off when she told you of her affair?
> 
> I don't begrudge people in full time ministries being paid. Missionaries have to eat and pay their bills. It sounded like you spent a lot of time planting churches or helping several churches at a time, so I thought you would be paid staff by whoever was backing your ministry.


Well I have a job which support my family. My wife always had a part time job. We always took care of our ministry after work hours and week ends. After seeing my marriage condition we realized we were not being honest to God and the churches we were working with and decided to take some time off the church activities. The working out process was very stressful and rough we felt our marriage wasn't going anywhere to the point we stop going to any church at all. We were constantly mad at each other, our only glue were the kids who always kept us together.
Now two months ago, we started assisting this new born church where the pastor recognized us and asked me to help. I started helping with the music and the results already are amazing.

Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


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## Pepe1970

sokillme said:


> It's easy to brake the rules of integrity it's not easy to have a second life for 3 years. You don't have a right to condemn her as a person but you have a right to hold her accountable as your wife and mother of your children.
> 
> What has she done to provide healing for you? What has she done to provide restitution?


Well, besides a few moments of tears showing "regrets" for what she did, her general attitude is "whatever I did, is in the past don't dwell on it, let's move forward"

Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


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## Lostinthought61

Pepe1970 said:


> Well I have a job which support my family. My wife always had a part time job. We always took care of our ministry after work hours and week ends. After seeing my marriage condition we realized we were not being honest to God and the churches we were working with and decided to take some time off the church activities. The working out process was very stressful and rough we felt our marriage wasn't going anywhere to the point we stop going to any church at all. We were constantly mad at each other, our only glue were the kids who always kept us together.
> Now two months ago, we started assisting this new born church where the pastor recognized us and asked me to help. I started helping with the music and the results already are amazing.
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


Seriously not honest with God...Honestly????? how about she was not honest with you? how about you stop rug sweeping this affair, and stop accepting her like the prodigal son and freaking grow up you......your wife failed you, she failed herself she lied to you, this was not a one night stand, she had a full blown affair, she has done NOTHING of any heavy lifting to save this marriage..and on top of that she is full blown hypocrite that is the worse kind of Christian I can think of...don't do as I do...do as I say.
And where is Honor thy husband?" she has demonstrated NO respect for you or your marriage and your too weak to weak to walk away and only rug sweep this.
And your worried about the church? Your priorities are screwed up.


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## Pepe1970

Luvher4life said:


> I'm sorry, Brother, but there needs to be consequences for her actions. You, in essence, told her that what she did was "okay", when the reality is it is NOT okay.
> 
> As men, we don't have the ability to forgive and forget something like that with words. Forgiving is one thing, but it REQUIRES repentance. Even God doesn't forgive without repentance.
> 
> Forgetting is not something that we are capable of, in my opinion. She has to repent (to God and to you) and make amends for what she has done, and suffer consequences for it accordingly. Otherwise, the doubts will continue to erode the marriage. It "should" be her cross to bear to make the marriage work, not yours.


Totally agreed, that'll be a sacrifice for the rest of my life. She told me that she couldn't stand the cheating and she ask God for forgiveness, then she felt she has to come forward ("come clean" as she put it) and tell me about her cheating.

Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


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## Pepe1970

Pepe1970 said:


> Totally agreed, that'll be a sacrifice for the rest of my life. She told me that she couldn't stand the cheating and she ask God for forgiveness, then she felt she has to come forward ("come clean" as she put it) and tell me about her cheating.
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


Made a mistake.
I meant to say scar not sacrifice

Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


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## manfromlamancha

Pepe, I wrote comments on a quote from you but that post has been deleted.

I am sorry that you are here but here are a few observations:



You need to really take God and Christianity out of this equation. She has behaved and is behaving very badly. By simply apologising to God does not make it better. I believe in God too but would deal with this for what it is. Perhaps you can ask God for strength to help you deal with it.


She is a bad person - morally decrepit. She lied. She cheated. She deceived. And she was extremely disrespectful. You have to accept that and start thinking how does anyone change all that. You cannot change her - she has to change herself. And you need to see proof of it in her actions not words. For a long time. Before you can believe it.


This was not a mistake or even a one night stand. This was 3 years - a mini marriage you might say. She was being unfaithful to him when she was with you in her mind. And then even after it ended, it took a whole year before she told you. A year during which she had to deal with her "relationship break up". She may still have feelings for him for all we know. This is major and not something you can come back from easily.


One of the reasons to not let religion enter this is because it tends to make you weaker not stronger in dealing with this. Especially if you are a rug sweeper (which you are) - it makes you take responsibility for her wrong doing instead of dealing with it.


The ease with which she did this - the planning, the lies, the betrayal - tells me she has done this before in your 17 year relationship. You cannot heal from this until you know the whole truth - a polygraph might help. I don't think you have all the facts and truth yet.


You need to find out the truth behind why it ended. Did she break it off or did she get dumped? Also the truth behind why she told you? Maybe she was about to get exposed. Don't just accept what she is telling you about her faith making her come clean.


She doesn't appear to be showing any remorse at all - not for deceiving you at least. Maybe just regrets that she had to deceive God too! Your marriage is done and you should not try and rug sweep this. You can find someone better who actually cares for you.


So open up your eyes and see this for what it is - not for what you would like it to be. Get an attorney asap. And do the 180 to help yourself heal.


Take care.


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## Pepe1970

Diana7 said:


> When you say
> "Unfortunately nowadays it's so easy brake any rule of integrity anywhere that it makes it extremely hard to stay in the path"
> 
> you are trying to excuse her behaviour by implying that she couldn't really help it because its so EASY to break any rule of integrity. No Its not easy, for most Christians adultery is a complete no no. Its not as if it was a once off occasion either. For three whole years she made the decision again and again to go to this man and have sex with him. She made the decision to cheat on you, her children, risk her marriage, risk her children's well being, disobey God, lie and deceive for 3 while years. She then kept it from you for another year.
> 
> As for her ministry, surely that's largely up to the pastor of the church? Of course he hasn't the option of being able to make that decision because you haven't even told him, which you need to asap BTW. I don't think she is anywhere near ready to be in any sort of counselling ministry, and may not be for many years.
> 
> Has she done everything she can to repent and put things right? Has she suggested some good marriage counselling? Taken complete responsibility for all she did without blaming you? Has she give you complete access to her phones etc? Has she put into place good boundaries to prevent this happening again? If this man was at her workplace has she changed jobs?
> If the OM is married have you both told his wife?
> 
> Honestly this has been dealt with very badly. She now thinks that she can cheat again with no consequences because you will just forgive immediately and she can just carry on as normal. By blaming you, even a bit, she isn't taking responsibility. She is justifying adultery by claiming that you didn't do this or that so it was justified. Adultery is never justified and is a very serious sin in the Bible.
> 
> At the very least you need to tell the pastor and get Christian marriage counsellors to help you deal with this in a more healthy way.


No, I think she was very picky at the time of choosing a candidate. The OM is some guy, none believer, divorced, own his own house, living in at town next to ours. When they met, it was just for sex or going out to eat.

Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


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## ConanHub

Pepe1970 said:


> Well, besides a few moments of tears showing "regrets" for what she did, her general attitude is "whatever I did, is in the past don't dwell on it, let's move forward"
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


She is ridiculous and trying to hide behind religious platitudes.

When Jesus didn't condemn the adulteress, he stopped her from being killed. He did not rebuke the crowd for exposing her or humiliating her.

He mentioned throwing stones to kill a woman if they were without sin. In some translations it mentions being guilty of the same sin she was and it was a set up anyway because the man she was found with was supposed to be stoned as well.

Repentance costs. You do not know nearly enough about it nor does your faithless wife.

You should concentrate on getting both your twisted butts straightened out way before working to help others.

To paraphrase a scripture.... Your wife needs to pull the telephone pole out of her butt before helping anyone else get a splinter out of theirs.


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## Pepe1970

manfromlamancha said:


> Pepe, I wrote comments on a quote from you but that post has been deleted.
> 
> I am sorry that you are here but here are a few observations:
> 
> 
> 
> You need to really take God and Christianity out of this equation. She has behaved and is behaving very badly. By simply apologising to God does not make it better. I believe in God too but would deal with this for what it is. Perhaps you can ask God for strength to help you deal with it.
> 
> 
> She is a bad person - morally decrepit. She lied. She cheated. She deceived. And she was extremely disrespectful. You have to accept that and start thinking how does anyone change all that. You cannot change her - she has to change herself. And you need to see proof of it in her actions not words. For a long time. Before you can believe it.
> 
> 
> This was not a mistake or even a one night stand. This was 3 years - a mini marriage you might say. She was being unfaithful to him when she was with you in her mind. And then even after it ended, it took a whole year before she told you. A year during which she had to deal with her "relationship break up". She may still have feelings for him for all we know. This is major and not something you can come back from easily.
> 
> 
> One of the reasons to not let religion enter this is because it tends to make you weaker not stronger in dealing with this. Especially if you are a rug sweeper (which you are) - it makes you take responsibility for her wrong doing instead of dealing with it.
> 
> 
> The ease with which she did this - the planning, the lies, the betrayal - tells me she has done this before in your 17 year relationship. You cannot heal from this until you know the whole truth - a polygraph might help. I don't think you have all the facts and truth yet.
> 
> 
> You need to find out the truth behind why it ended. Did she break it off or did she get dumped? Also the truth behind why she told you? Maybe she was about to get exposed. Don't just accept what she is telling you about her faith making her come clean.
> 
> 
> She doesn't appear to be showing any remorse at all - not for deceiving you at least. Maybe just regrets that she had to deceive God too! Your marriage is done and you should not try and rug sweep this. You can find someone better who actually cares for you.
> 
> 
> So open up your eyes and see this for what it is - not for what you would like it to be. Get an attorney asap. And do the 180 to help yourself heal.
> 
> 
> Take care.


Thank you for your words and yes she had feelings for him. I found an old text to one of her friends that she was going to break with the OM and she was heart broken to make that decision since she wanted to remain faithful to me. 

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## manfromlamancha

Pepe1970 said:


> Thank you for your words and yes she had feelings for him. I found an old text to one of her friends that she was going to break with the OM and she was heart broken to make that decision since she wanted to remain faithful to me.
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


I understand that. But 3 years is a long time after which "she wants to remain faithful to you". It took her 3 years to realise this!?!?!?

There is more to this than meets the eye. I take it you know who the OM is - is he married or with someone ? Have you told his wife or other half? It would be the morally and tactically right thing to do.


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## Pepe1970

manfromlamancha said:


> I understand that. But 3 years is a long time after which "she wants to remain faithful to you". It took her 3 years to realise this!?!?!?
> 
> There is more to this than meets the eye. I take it you know who the OM is - is he married or with someone ? Have you told his wife or other half? It would be the morally and tactically right thing to do.


I already answered those questions. I don't know the guy. By what she told me he is divorced and has his own house and live in our next town. She never wanted to reveal any personal info about him. She always answered every question I asked about the affair. And believe me, I asked for every detail, like sex positions, in what room they had it, places when they went out to eat, what did they order, what day they went. Believe I could make a movie out of it. I even know that he is sircuncided, he drinks beers, he likes football, ect

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## MyRevelation

Pepe1970 said:


> I already answered those questions. I don't know the guy. By what she told me he is divorced and has his own house and live in our next town. She never wanted to reveal any personal info about him. She always answered every question I asked about the affair. And believe me, I asked for every detail, like sex positions, in what room they had it, places when they went out to eat, what did they order, what day they went. Believe I could make a movie out of it. I even know that he is sircuncided, he drinks beers, he likes football, ect
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


But you don't know his name? ... and you let her get away with keeping that little secret? UNFREAKINGBELIEVABLE!!!


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## dreamer2017

Dear Pepe1970

I’m sorry you and your family are confronted with acts of infidelity by your wife. I am also a believer, seminarian. Therefore, my advice will have derived from biblical principles. As per your writing, your wife has yet to show remorse, and she has demanded that you should forgive and forget move forward. 
I don’t feel either of you should be in ministry at this moment. Your family is broken and you as the shepherd and priest of your home has chosen not to consult leadership or counsel from your pastor. 

We know that God will forgive all sins, but there are consequences for every action and reaction. Yes, you should forgive her for her adulterous acts, but there are consequences for her acts of infidelity.
At this present time, I don’t think she is committed to a relationship with you. Both of you should enter into Marriage counseling.

Dreamer


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## SunCMars

ConanHub said:


> She is ridiculous and trying to hide behind religious platitudes.
> 
> When Jesus didn't condemn the adulteress, he stopped her from being killed. He did not rebuke the crowd for exposing her or humiliating her.
> 
> He mentioned throwing stones to kill a woman if they were without sin. In some translations it mentions being guilty of the same sin she was and it was a set up anyway because the man she was found with was supposed to be stoned as well.
> 
> Repentance costs. You do not know nearly enough about it nor does your faithless wife.
> 
> You should concentrate on getting both your twisted butts straightened out way before working to help others.
> 
> To paraphrase a scripture.... Your wife needs to pull the telephone pole out of her butt before helping anyone else get a splinter out of theirs.


A telephone pole? Oh my. :surprise:


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## SunCMars

Christianity shows 'The Way'.

But.....

You have to believe and accept 'this' way.
You have to look at the Lord's hand and the finger, to see which way it is pointed. And then head 'that' way.

She failed at both.

People make mistakes, grave ones. 
Some mistakes never get resolved before the burial dirt hits them in their, then, dead face.

After you resolve your marital situation, her more than you, you then must resolve the intimacy problem.
Lest it fester, repeat, lead to an inevitable divorce.

Let no spouse, lay there alone and fester, their minds left to wander and wonder.

The Lord takes care of your spiritual needs. Spouses take care of each other's earthly needs.
Which includes intimacy and sexual satisfaction for nigh all, or most humans.


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## sokillme

Pepe1970 said:


> she was heart broken to make that decision since she wanted to remain faithful to me.
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


She didn't. 

You are very codependent. Your wife has taken terrible advantage of you. She is also by definition a terrible wife, by Christian definition she is a bad one too. She doesn't deserve you. She deserves a man who will cheat on her, and use her for sex. The one she had the affair with. She doesn't sound the least bit remorseful, and she has had zero consequences. Have you had any other relationships before this one? Is your intention to just live the rest of your life like this? Is this the best you think you can do as far as a mate. I mean even if she stays your mate is this the best you can do? A wife who had an affair and still protects her affair partner over your pain?

I have read all about this stuff and I can tell you without consequences nothing is going to change. She may even do it again. What she did to you is akin to emotional rape. Until she really gets this I don't think you have much of a shot of being happy. This is a women who emotionally raped you, said she was sorry and then went to teach Sunday school. There is a giant disconnect from what her actions were and how she thinks about them. There is also a giant disconnect from the pain you feel and the response you have been getting. If you think God wants this for your life then you have a very bad opinion of God. If he does want that for your life why would you follow him? 

If she is capable of doing such a horrendous act and then just moving on, she is not a good person. She is also probably vulnerable to have it happen again. You are not safe with this women. Adultery is right up there with murder in the 10 commandments. In the old testament she would be put to death. Besides this she has done you grievous harm, what is she doing to try to fix it. 

If it were me i would go see a divorce attorney and tell her you are not sure you can live with what happened to you (even if you are unsure). If she wants the marriage first thing is this guys name (you may be surprised who it is, how do you know he is not in her life still when you don't even know who he is?) She needs to be the one to work to keep you.

Part of the reason you are suffering is because she stole from you and you have allowed her and your marriage contract to take away your agency in your own life. You know you are not happy but you feel trapped because of your vows. But the truth is you have a right to divorce her, and if you are in constant pain maybe you should. If you don't want to do that maybe you should separate for a while. Whatever YOU need to do you should do it, your life is not going to get better when you feel trapped. Understand you are never going to get back the marriage you once had because she killed that one. If you continue to strive for that you will be in a consent loop of pain because what you are striving for can't be. She will always be the one who hurt you the most.

Taking back your agency is the only way you will heal.


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## Pepe1970

sokillme said:


> She didn't.
> 
> You are very codependent. Your wife has taken terrible advantage of you. She is also by definition a terrible wife, by Christian definition she is a bad one too. She doesn't deserve you. She deserves a man who will cheat on her, and use her for sex. The one she had the affair with. She doesn't sound the least bit remorseful, and she has had zero consequences. Have you had any other relationships before this one? Is your intention to just live the rest of your life like this? Is this the best you think you can do as far as a mate. I mean even if she stays your mate is this the best you can do? A wife who had an affair and still protects her affair partner over your pain?
> 
> I have read all about this stuff and I can tell you without consequences nothing is going to change. She may even do it again. What she did to you is akin to emotional rape. Until she really gets this I don't think you have much of a shot of being happy. This is a women who emotionally raped you, said she was sorry and then went to teach Sunday school. There is a giant disconnect from what her actions were and how she thinks about them. There is also a giant disconnect from the pain you feel and the response you have been getting. If you think God wants this for your life then you have a very bad opinion of God. If he does want that for your life why would you follow him?
> 
> If she is capable of doing such a horrendous act and then just moving on, she is not a good person. She is also probably vulnerable to have it happen again. You are not safe with this women. Adultery is right up there with murder in the 10 commandments. In the old testament she would be put to death. Besides this she has done you grievous harm, what is she doing to try to fix it.
> 
> If it were me i would go see a divorce attorney and tell her you are not sure you can live with what happened to you (even if you are unsure). If she wants the marriage first thing is this guys name (you may be surprised who it is, how do you know he is not in her life still when you don't even know who he is?) She needs to be the one to work to keep you.
> 
> Part of the reason you are suffering is because she stole from you and you have allowed her and your marriage contract to take away your agency in your own life. You know you are not happy but you feel trapped because of your vows. But the truth is you have a right to divorce her, and if you are in constant pain maybe you should. If you don't want to do that maybe you should separate for a while. Whatever YOU need to do you should do it, your life is not going to get better when you feel trapped. Understand you are never going to get back the marriage you once had because she killed that one. If you continue to strive for that you will be in a consent loop of pain because what you are striving for can't be. She will always be the one who hurt you the most.
> 
> Taking back your agency is the only way you will heal.


Alright guys, I really thank you all for your comments. Just because I don't answer right away doesn't mean I'm ignoring you. Not at all, I am analysing every post and it seems my wife and I will remain away from the spot light in church. 
We'll still be helping with other tasks like cleaning the building when needed, pulling chairs, she can help with the bakings, printing flyers or programs, ect
Mean while we still working in our marriage issues. We have a long road to go

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## Chaparral

Leaving religion out of it the two of you have done almost nothing right to save the marriage. With religion it’s even worse. She is hiding her affair partner from you. In other words you don’t know who it is or where he really lives. How do you even know when it started or ended or why. What it sounds like is there is a good chance the affair was the cause of your bad sex life and bad marriage. 

How have you verified anything she has told you. What we know for certain here is cheaters lie, then lie some more and then keep on lying.

How is your sex life now?

You absolutely need to know who, what and when. And you need proof. Then we can help you work on the rest.


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## cashcratebob

Pepe1970 said:


> Hello everybody. This is a case that requires advise from people who are strong believer christians. Don't get me wrong, any person (Christian or not) here is always appreciated the comments/advise but I need ideas how to deal with these bothering thoughts in order for me to put an order to it.
> My wife and I are not just Christian Church goers. We are a very strong relationship with different congregations as leaders. I've always been n charge of the music Dept and she always help as counselor, Sunday school, seminaries and up front in many activities. She's very well educated woman, always made me wonder why she married a drop out of high school like me. Bottom line we've always been under the spot lights in different churches for many years until those churches grow up enough to sustain themselves to the point we're not needed anymore, then we move to the next church that needs help growing.
> Now going to the point. Wife and I been married for 17 years, have 3 beautiful kids. I'm 47, she's 41.
> Last June 2017 she confirmed my gut feelings of her having an affair (lasted 3 years) which ended a year before her confession.
> Now my trouble is not about my relationship with her. She did the tipical cheater wife's lines saying it was my fault because we stop having sex, we grew apart, yada yada. That's something I am very solid I had nothing to do with her doing, it was her own choice and she will answer to the Lord one day for that. We're working in our marriage and connected again to work together helping a new born church where I offered our help as we always done in the past.
> Then again my concern is this: should I assume to put her on hold from all the activities that she can help in church?
> I mean she said she ended that affair almost two years ago. But I was thinking: we don't live under the old testament where you have to have certain time for purifications after you commit a sin before God. I know now we live under grace and all sin have been forgiven.
> My question is: how long should I wait for her to be ready to take over responsibilities at church? Of course nobody knows about all of this we went through. But believing God knows it all, we want to be honest to him and to his church serving together in christian ministry.
> This is why I was asking to those who have some time in a church position, maybe any pastor or leader of church, any elder with experience in the Lord. Again I'm will not ignore comments from anybody, even if you are not a believer in anything, after all you still human and also have an opinion to say anything. Thank you all.
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


"Strong" Christian here (lol). There is grace, mercy, and forgiveness to be had for any situation. ANY. But a leader in the church is to be above reproach in these areas. If she is a leader, than any of the verses that have to do with elders and deacons apply and she has violated these. A measure of true repentance in this case, at least for me, would be the humble recognition that she has nothing to offer as far as counseling is concerned, except to counsel the damage affairs can do (maybe). It would be hypocritical by her to believe anything else. She doesn't need to be scorned, but a humble stepping away from leading/counseling teens and adults is necessary. I also see very little correlation to OT Levitical priests and new testament leaders so I wouldn't draw too much from that. The Levitical laws of purification and what not were ALL satisfied in Christ and his atoning work. Also, just my two cents since I suspect someone might go there, 1 Corinthians 13 is better understood in the context of the church and church fellowship, not the context of man and wife. Not to say some or all don't apply, but it is certainly different. For example, it isn't right to be jealous of people's position in the church, someone gets to lead when you don't or whatever. That is pride, envy and jealousy on your part. But jealousy is a common occurrence in relationships and even marriage. Is it a sin to be jealous when your wife wants to hang with another guy instead of you?? Of course not; and God wasn't breaking character when its says he was jealous of Israel's constant turning away. 

And yes, listen to others on here about dealing with the marriage/infidelity part. 

Jesus releases married couples based on infidelity. The Son of God, who calls all men to forgive as they have been forgiven and was willing to hang on the cross and suffer all wrath to gain that forgiveness for all who call on him, allows, and dare I say, promotes divorce due to infidelity. Let that sink in. This was bad and it sounds like if we are already talking about letting her lead, that this was rug-swept hard.


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## Pepe1970

cashcratebob said:


> "Strong" Christian here (lol). There is grace, mercy, and forgiveness to be had for any situation. ANY. But a leader in the church is to be above reproach in these areas. If she is a leader, than any of the verses that have to do with elders and deacons apply and she has violated these. A measure of true repentance in this case, at least for me, would be the humble recognition that she has nothing to offer as far as counseling is concerned, except to counsel the damage affairs can do (maybe). It would be hypocritical by her to believe anything else. She doesn't need to be scorned, but a humble stepping away from leading/counseling teens and adults is necessary. I also see very little correlation to OT Levitical priests and new testament leaders so I wouldn't draw too much from that. The Levitical laws of purification and what not were ALL satisfied in Christ and his atoning work. Also, just my two cents since I suspect someone might go there, 1 Corinthians 13 is better understood in the context of the church and church fellowship, not the context of man and wife. Not to say some or all don't apply, but it is certainly different. For example, it isn't right to be jealous of people's position in the church, someone gets to lead when you don't or whatever. That is pride, envy and jealousy on your part. But jealousy is a common occurrence in relationships and even marriage. Is it a sin to be jealous when your wife wants to hang with another guy instead of you?? Of course not; and God wasn't breaking character when its says he was jealous of Israel's constant turning away.
> 
> And yes, listen to others on here about dealing with the marriage/infidelity part.
> 
> Jesus releases married couples based on infidelity. The Son of God, who calls all men to forgive as they have been forgiven and was willing to hang on the cross and suffer all wrath to gain that forgiveness for all who call on him, allows, and dare I say, promotes divorce due to infidelity. Let that sink in. This was bad and it sounds like if we are already talking about letting her lead, that this was rug-swept hard.


Thank you for your comments

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## Evinrude58

How is your sex life NOW?
Why was it reduced before the infidelity?

Why does SHE feel she's worthy of taking a leadership role in the church?
Do you feel this marriage is worth saving?
Why did you stay married to a wife who cheated? Divorcing an adulterer is a legitimate excuse according to the Good Book. Did you stay because you love her and thing she's worthy of being trusted again, and actually believe she loves you? Did the fact that you would likely lose your role as church leader if you divorced, play a role in your attempt to reconcile? 

There are all kinds of questions that you need answers to from your wife. 

If you don't know the name of the man that she cheated with, she is PROTECTING him and placing his needs above yours EVEN STILL.

I don't think it's really possible to have a true reconciliation with a woman in this mindset. She should NOT be in any role of leadership, or otherwise face the dire consequences of becoming a stumbling block for others.


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## OutofRetirement

Secrets are no good. Protecting rivals for her affection are no good.

Infidelity behavior is remarkably predictable. 

Rug sweeping
Protecting the other man
I love you but I'm not in love with you
I'm in love with the other man

Your wife may be ready to leave it in the past and move forward, never speaking about it again, but you are not.

I'm thinking that your wife would not have cheated without the drastic decrease in sex. Which does not mean she was justified. She had many options, and she chose a wrong one. Perhaps she thought this the lesser of the evils. Especially if you never found out. Then she fell in love and had to decide to end the affair or leave you. Or the sinning gradually overwhelmed her with guilt, especially when the affair became more routine, less exciting, over the years. Perhaps she stayed out of duty, obligation, her strong religious convictions, which she was going against and feeling both exhilarated and guilty at the same time. Kind of like an addiction. 

She may feel resentment towards you for making her choose. She didn't want the decrease in sex, which she thought you chose for both of you, then she had to decide what to do about it. None of her options felt good, perhaps she considered divorcing you, especially over sex, was a worse option than cheating.

I noticed in some situations that the cheater feels the betrayed spouse now gets the moral upper hand. The legitimate grievances, like lack of mutual marital sex, now must be put on the back burner, due to the cheating being such a huge issue. You and your wife have to get through all of these things and come to an agreement, a decision of what happened, why, and how both of you are not going to let this happen again.

Communication and honesty are the foundations. Also you must be willing to be vulnerable to each other. I see her protection of other man, her pride in not wanting to scrutinize her actions, and the wanting to distract by getting busy in church activities as a drawback to repairing the hurts in your marriage. 

Ultimately your legitimate faults also have to be resolved too.


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## Chaparral

Usually what we see here is the sex life went in the tank AFTER the affair started. Since everything you know about the affair came from your wife, you really know nothing. My best guess is the story about him being a non believer, divorced and in the next town is completely unbelievable. So is the time it started.


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## Pepe1970

OutofRetirement said:


> Secrets are no good. Protecting rivals for her affection are no good.
> 
> Infidelity behavior is remarkably predictable.
> 
> Rug sweeping
> Protecting the other man
> I love you but I'm not in love with you
> I'm in love with the other man
> 
> Your wife may be ready to leave it in the past and move forward, never speaking about it again, but you are not.
> 
> I'm thinking that your wife would not have cheated without the drastic decrease in sex. Which does not mean she was justified. She had many options, and she chose a wrong one. Perhaps she thought this the lesser of the evils. Especially if you never found out. Then she fell in love and had to decide to end the affair or leave you. Or the sinning gradually overwhelmed her with guilt, especially when the affair became more routine, less exciting, over the years. Perhaps she stayed out of duty, obligation, her strong religious convictions, which she was going against and feeling both exhilarated and guilty at the same time. Kind of like an addiction.
> 
> She may feel resentment towards you for making her choose. She didn't want the decrease in sex, which she thought you chose for both of you, then she had to decide what to do about it. None of her options felt good, perhaps she considered divorcing you, especially over sex, was a worse option than cheating.
> 
> I noticed in some situations that the cheater feels the betrayed spouse now gets the moral upper hand. The legitimate grievances, like lack of mutual marital sex, now must be put on the back burner, due to the cheating being such a huge issue. You and your wife have to get through all of these things and come to an agreement, a decision of what happened, why, and how both of you are not going to let this happen again.
> 
> Communication and honesty are the foundations. Also you must be willing to be vulnerable to each other. I see her protection of other man, her pride in not wanting to scrutinize her actions, and the wanting to distract by getting busy in church activities as a drawback to repairing the hurts in your marriage.
> 
> Ultimately your legitimate faults also have to be resolved too.


Agreed

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## Pepe1970

Chaparral said:


> Usually what we see here is the sex life went in the tank AFTER the affair started. Since everything you know about the affair came from your wife, you really know nothing. My best guess is the story about him being a non believer, divorced and in the next town is completely unbelievable. So is the time it started.


Well those are few details I mentioned here but she's given me many more details about him but there's no need to put those here

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## Adelais

Pepe1970 said:


> My wife and I are not just Christian Church goers.


Since you and your wife are not "just" Christian church goers, but your are leaders, you are held to a higher accountability.

"Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly." James 3:1 New International Version

The passage means that God will judge teachers more strictly, but do you think that it also means that they need to be open to being judged by their own congregation? The reason God will judge you more strictly is because you can cause others to fall away by false/poor teaching and/or hypocrisy. Your poor behavior can also keep people from wanting to believe in God, the Bible, Jesus's sacrifice, etc.. Why should they believe if even those who teach don't keep the commandments, while keeping their egregious behavior a secret?

This is what non believers and some believers see and hear from hypocrites:

"God says to tithe, so give us your money. Also, give us your time and labor helping fix up the church. Tell others about Jesus and invite them to church. Jesus loves you! Obey God's commands and it will be well with you on earth." (While I ignore God's command in Exodus 24:14 and have a 3 year affair over here where no one can see me.) 

Whether your wife confesses her sin to people or they find out on their own, they will be shocked. However if it comes directly from her mouth they will at least know that she is seeking to be authentic with them.

By keeping her secret for her, and not requiring counseling as a condition for reconciliation, requiring her to tell the pastors of all the churches she was "ministering to" while in her affair, as well as all new pastors she is under while she is , you are a co-conspirator in her secret and sin.

Like others said, your question about when she should go back into ministry is premature. She hasn't fully dealt with her own lack of character and hard heart that allowed her to have a 3 year affair. Neither have you.

Your ministry is a distraction from what you really need to be working on: your marriage, holding your wife's feet to the fire until she fully deals with her character flaw that allows her to deceive many people including her covenant husband every minute of every day for 3 whole years. (I'm in disbelief about it as I write this.)




Pepe1970 said:


> We are a *very strong relationship with different congregations* as leaders. I've *always* been n charge of the music Dept and she *always* help as counselor, Sunday school, seminaries and up front in many activities. Bottom line we've *always been* under the spot lights in different churches *for many years* until those churches grow up enough to sustain themselves to the point we're not needed anymore, then we *move to the next church* that needs help growing.
> 
> Last *June 2017* she confirmed my gut feelings of her *having an affair (lasted 3 years)which ended a year before her confession.*


and


Pepe1970 said:


> Just to clarify to everybody.
> 
> *The time she was having the affair, we weren't in the ministry.*
> 
> *As soon as I realized we needed to work in our marriage, we stop working at all for churches.*


and


Pepe1970 said:


> *After seeing my marriage condition we realized we were not being honest to God and the churches we were working with and decided to take some time off the church activities*. The working out process was very stressful and rough we felt our marriage wasn't going anywhere to the point we stop going to any church at all. We were constantly mad at each other, our only glue were the kids who always kept us together.
> *Now two months ago, we started assisting this new born church where the pastor recognized us and asked me to help. I started helping with the music and the results already are amazing.
> *


Your response that you were not in the ministry when she was having the affair and after you found out just doesn't fit the original description of your very busy ministry in your initial post. 

Is this the timeline?
2013-2016 (3 years) Wife having an affair....Neither Pepe or wife in ministry.
June 2016-June 2017 (1 year) Wife not having affair. Pepe and wife in ministry?
June 2017 Wife tells Pepe of affair. Pepe and wife in ministry.
June 2017-Jan. 2018 8 months. In the ministry, out of the ministry, in the ministry.
December 2017- Jan. 2018 Pepe in ministry again. Wife wants in too.
Jan. 2018 Pepe wants to know if wife should be in ministry.


When exactly were you in the ministry since 2013? 

Your original post sounded like you and your wife were in the ministry *a lot* for the last several years, but according to the actual timeline you gave you were only in the ministry for *one year since 2013* (the year after her affair ended and until she told you) and then the* last two months*.

How many months did you remain in the ministry after your wife told you about her affair?

How many months were you out of the ministry while you were working out the problems in your marriage?

I ask again, was your wife in the ministry during her 3 year affair?

Your honesty with us here on TAM is important. If you are not being honest then no one will want to talk with you anymore. (I won't, at least.)


----------



## eric1

Have you independently confirmed what she has said about her boyfriend?


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## Adelais

Pepe1970 said:


> Thank you for your words and yes she had feelings for him. I found an old text to one of her friends that she was going to break with the OM and she was heart broken to make that decision since she wanted to remain faithful to me.
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


Have you told her to end the friendship with her friend? A friend who would not tell you about your wife having an affair is not a friend of your marriage. Your wife's friend is a BAD, TOXIC friend to your marriage.

*All* friends who knew about the affair and didn't tell you need to be cut off.

Pepe, you have a lot to learn. Stay on TAM and you will get your manhood and marriage back.


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## Pepe1970

eric1 said:


> Have you independently confirmed what she has said about her boyfriend?


Meaning ..........?

Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


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## Pepe1970

Araucaria said:


> Have you told her to end the friendship with her friend? A friend who would not tell you about your wife having an affair is not a friend of your marriage. Your wife's friend is a BAD, TOXIC friend to your marriage.
> 
> *All* friends who knew about the affair and didn't tell you need to be cut off.
> 
> Pepe, you have a lot to learn. Stay on TAM and you will get your manhood and marriage back.


A lot to learn about what? Keep being cheated on?

Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


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## bandit.45

Pepe1970 said:


> No, I think she was very picky at the time of choosing a candidate. The OM is some guy, none believer, divorced, own his own house, living in at town next to ours. *When they met, it was just for sex or going out to eat.
> *
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


No, no it wasn't. There was an emotional connection there. She would not have kept it going for three years if there had been no feelings between them. 

That fact right there should burn your bacon. 

Pepe the reason you are here and sticking around is that you know, deep down inside your gut, that your WW is not sorry for what she did. She is sorry she got caught and sorry that the whole issue has caused disruption and inconvenience in her life. But she is not sorry for hurting and humiliating you. How can you live with that?


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## Adelais

Pepe1970 said:


> A lot to learn about what? Keep being cheated on?
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


You have alot to learn regarding all the areas of your lives that have been affected by your wife's adultery and the new reality you both now live in in order to have any hope of a good marriage.

Example: Your wife must end all friendships that supported the adultery. By "supported" I mean, friends who did not tell you that she was having an affair, but kept it a secret for her.

Have you told your wife to cut off the friend she emailed to tell that she was ending the affair? Did it even occur to you that she needed to end that friendship?

Please answer my questions from my earlier post regarding the timeline, when you have time.


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## Pepe1970

Araucaria said:


> Have you told her to end the friendship with her friend? A friend who would not tell you about your wife having an affair is not a friend of your marriage. Your wife's friend is a BAD, TOXIC friend to your marriage.
> 
> *All* friends who knew about the affair and didn't tell you need to be cut off.
> 
> Pepe, you have a lot to learn. Stay on TAM and you will get your manhood and marriage back.


That friend lives in another state, I met him once or twice in 17 yrs.
Besides that friend is also a cheater to his wife

Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


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## cashcratebob

Pepe1970 said:


> Meaning ..........?
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


Did you investigate the affair? Did you verify what she told you? 

I know you came asking about one thing, unfortunately that isn't the way things work around here. The men (and women) on this bored have seen it all and their intuition is spot on. 

I just perused the thread and I noticed you seem to be responding to the comments that implicate you more as well. I would indulge that a little but recognize the very real possibility that you might have not done anything really wrong. Based on your initial post and subsequent, whether the affair was caused by lack of sex or the lack of sex is the result of the affair, is unknown. 

I shuddered when you commented that she said that past is the past, lets just move forward. She confessed the affair; she doesn't want to confess the depths. She doesn't want you to know the awful truths because they will reflect on the character she has portrayed to you up until that point and after.


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## Pepe1970

cashcratebob said:


> Did you investigate the affair? Did you verify what she told you?
> 
> I know you came asking about one thing, unfortunately that isn't the way things work around here. The men (and women) on this bored have seen it all and their intuition is spot on.
> 
> I just perused the thread and I noticed you seem to be responding to the comments that implicate you more as well. I would indulge that a little but recognize the very real possibility that you might have not done anything really wrong. Based on your initial post and subsequent, whether the affair was caused by lack of sex or the lack of sex is the result of the affair, is unknown.
> 
> I shuddered when you commented that she said that past is the past, lets just move forward. She confessed the affair; she doesn't want to confess the depths. She doesn't want you to know the awful truths because they will reflect on the character she has portrayed to you up until that point and after.


Good point

Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


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## Adelais

Pepe1970 said:


> That friend lives in another state, I met him once or twice in 17 yrs.
> Besides that friend is also a cheater to his wife
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


You didn't answer my question, but in a way you did: You haven't told her to end the friendship with that guy. 

Why is she friends with a man you aren't also good friends with? And why is she emailing a known cheater of the opposite sex? Her friends should be female, who are not cheaters. 

It sounds like the two of you have bad boundaries regarding friendships. Affairs come out of bad boundaries.

Please clarify the timeline of the affair and your activity in the ministry during the last 4 1/2 years.


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## Mr Blunt

> Quote of Pepe
> Now two months ago, we started assisting this new born church where the pastor recognized us and asked me to help. I started helping with the music and the results already are amazing
> What do you mean by “amazing”?


If you are gaining spiritually from helping with the music then I would encourage you to continue. 





Some posters on this thread question the sincerity of your wife’s repentance. Without true repentance there will be no healing. Since you are committed to the Christian faith then maybe some information on true repentance from a Christian perspective will help you evaluate your wife’s repentance.

In Acts 26:20 Paul states that the repentant person must prove their repentance by their deeds.
“First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds” (Acts 26:20).

True saving faith and true repentance recognizes Scripture as God’s Word and commits to studying it and submitting to it. This should be the focus of the Christian life, and it is an evidence of true repentance.

There are three elements in genuine repentance.* First, there is conviction.* You must know what is right before you can know what is wrong. To be truly repentant, is to realize the sinfulness of your heart, to turn to God and appeal to Him for a new heart and a clean conscience through the blood of Christ. These will go on to grow the fruits of repentance.
Before men and women can come to the cross of Christ and have their sins forgiven, they must be convicted of their sins, and that convicting work is done by the Holy Spirit upon the soul.

*The second element of true repentance is contrition*. The Bible says, “The Lord is near to those who have a broken heart, and saves such as have a contrite spirit” (Psalm 34:18, NKJV). Contrition, or “godly sorrow,” as it is called in 2 Corinthians 7:10, is neither a shallow sentiment nor empty emotion. It is a sincere regret over past sins and an earnest desire to walk in a new path of righteousness. Brokenness, with its godly sorrow for sin, is the second step toward true repentance.

*Third, repentance carries with it the idea of changing–changing your mind, changing your attitude, changing your ways*. The Bible says, “For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation” (2 Corinthians 7:10, NKJV). If we are truly repentant, our will is brought into action and we will make a reversal of direction.

Much of what I have printed above came from the Billy Graham Organization
https://billygraham.org/decision-magazine/january-2007/true-repentance-real-change/

Pepe, according to biblical Christian theology, your wife must have true repentance before there will be any process of healing. Her responsibilities at church will be fruitless unless she obtains true repentance. That is one reason that I asked you a question in my last post. You did not answer that question so maybe you overlooked my post. Here it is again below:



> *What is your number one priority? *
> Is your number one priority true repentance, true forgiveness, reconciliation, and restoration or : “how long should I wait for her to be ready to take over responsibilities at church?”


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## cashcratebob

Pepe1970 said:


> Good point
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


I'm probably being a little forward and assuming too much. In any case, I am sorry you are here.


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## rrrbbbttt

As others have said "She will not tell you his name", If she does not TRUST you with his name she is not respecting you. From what you have stated she is showing little if any Remorse "Get over it" She says.

No Compassion, no idea to the HURT she has caused.

She is making it YOUR PROBLEM


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## badmemory

OP,

In describing your situation, you unwittingly revealed enough for one thing to be clear. The church is not the important issue. What should be important to you, is that you have rug swept her A; and thus, you are living with a non-remorseful wife in a false R.

For you to accept her unwillingness to discuss the A anytime you want as well as her refusal to name the OM - is the definition of rug sweeping. In the not too distant future you will regret it. You'll harbor resentment. You'll regret not testing her remorse fully. 

It's not too late to correct those mistakes. All you have to do is have a sit down conversation, and tell her you are no longer willing to accept what you've been accepting.


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## Steve1000

Pepe1970 said:


> That friend lives in another state, I met him once or twice in 17 yrs.
> Besides that friend is also a cheater to his wife


Is there a good reason why you don't suspect this friend to be the affair partner? I'm sorry you're going through this. I know that it is unbearable at times.


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## Pepe1970

Araucaria said:


> Since you and your wife are not "just" Christian church goers, but your are leaders, you are held to a higher accountability.
> 
> "Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly." James 3:1 New International Version
> 
> The passage means that God will judge teachers more strictly, but do you think that it also means that they need to be open to being judged by their own congregation? The reason God will judge you more strictly is because you can cause others to fall away by false/poor teaching and/or hypocrisy. Your poor behavior can also keep people from wanting to believe in God, the Bible, Jesus's sacrifice, etc.. Why should they believe if even those who teach don't keep the commandments, while keeping their egregious behavior a secret?
> 
> This is what non believers and some believers see and hear from hypocrites:
> 
> "God says to tithe, so give us your money. Also, give us your time and labor helping fix up the church. Tell others about Jesus and invite them to church. Jesus loves you! Obey God's commands and it will be well with you on earth." (While I ignore God's command in Exodus 24:14 and have a 3 year affair over here where no one can see me.)
> 
> Whether your wife confesses her sin to people or they find out on their own, they will be shocked. However if it comes directly from her mouth they will at least know that she is seeking to be authentic with them.
> 
> By keeping her secret for her, and not requiring counseling as a condition for reconciliation, requiring her to tell the pastors of all the churches she was "ministering to" while in her affair, as well as all new pastors she is under while she is , you are a co-conspirator in her secret and sin.
> 
> Like others said, your question about when she should go back into ministry is premature. She hasn't fully dealt with her own lack of character and hard heart that allowed her to have a 3 year affair. Neither have you.
> 
> Your ministry is a distraction from what you really need to be working on: your marriage, holding your wife's feet to the fire until she fully deals with her character flaw that allows her to deceive many people including her covenant husband every minute of every day for 3 whole years. (I'm in disbelief about it as I write this.)
> 
> 
> 
> and
> and
> 
> 
> Your response that you were not in the ministry when she was having the affair and after you found out just doesn't fit the original description of your very busy ministry in your initial post.
> 
> Is this the timeline?
> 2013-2016 (3 years) Wife having an affair....Neither Pepe or wife in ministry.
> June 2016-June 2017 (1 year) Wife not having affair. Pepe and wife in ministry?
> June 2017 Wife tells Pepe of affair. Pepe and wife in ministry.
> June 2017-Jan. 2018 8 months. In the ministry, out of the ministry, in the ministry.
> December 2017- Jan. 2018 Pepe in ministry again. Wife wants in too.
> Jan. 2018 Pepe wants to know if wife should be in ministry.
> 
> 
> When exactly were you in the ministry since 2013?
> 
> Your original post sounded like you and your wife were in the ministry *a lot* for the last several years, but according to the actual timeline you gave you were only in the ministry for *one year since 2013* (the year after her affair ended and until she told you) and then the* last two months*.
> 
> How many months did you remain in the ministry after your wife told you about her affair?
> 
> How many months were you out of the ministry while you were working out the problems in your marriage?
> 
> I ask again, was your wife in the ministry during her 3 year affair?
> 
> Your honesty with us here on TAM is important. If you are not being honest then no one will want to talk with you anymore. (I won't, at least.)


After we got married we found a common desire to help other churches to grow. We were younger, strong, willing to help and sacrifice anything. We found many churches need a lot of help. That's how we started all the ministry. We each still had our jobs then and dedicated to those churches after work hours and in weekends. After our second child I asked her to stay at home with kids but we still helping the churches as we could.
We still have a lot of marriage problems like any married couple but we always stay afloat, then we go the third child where we were struggling to the point of dedicating more time to the family issues including my marriage.
I probably round up the numbers about the timelines but around 2012 I stopped all the ministry helps which was taking a toll in my family including my wife of course. Then we both stayed off the ministry till last December we visited this new church where the pastor asked us to step in for help. I already started helping with the music but my wife and I always worked together.
That's why I was originally asking for opinions at the beginning of this post.
I wasn't asking advice for my marriage, I was asking opinions and comments about how long I should wait to integrate her in helping this new church.

Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


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## Adelais

Steve1000 said:


> Is there a good reason why you don't suspect this friend to be the affair partner? I'm sorry you're going through this. I know that it is unbearable at times.


Do you see why you need to know the name of her affair partner and verify that it is really him? For all you know it could be him, and for all you know, it went on for more than 3 years whether or not it was him.

Many of us have been betrayed, some were unfaithful themselves. We have our own experience plus 100's of threads we have read here and on other forums. Affairs follow a script. Cheaters lie, one can't believe a word they say. One must be able to verify everything a cheater says, if need be.

Believe me, the questions we are asking about your wife's affair are ones that would have eventually occured to you. The sooner you know everything about the affair, including his name and address, the sooner you will heal and begin to have hope for a healthy marriage.

I suspect that with all the unhealthy boundaries, rugsweeping, avoidance of transparency, stretching the truth, etc., your marriage has never been healthy.

Don't you want to have an awesome marriage? The only hope for that is 100% transparency and truth from both of you.


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## farsidejunky

Pepe1970 said:


> After we got married we found a common desire to help other churches to grow. We were younger, strong, willing to help and sacrifice anything. We found many churches need a lot of help. That's how we started all the ministry. We each still had our jobs then and dedicated to those churches after work hours and in weekends. After our second child I asked her to stay at home with kids but we still helping the churches as we could.
> We still have a lot of marriage problems like any married couple but we always stay afloat, then we go the third child where we were struggling to the point of dedicating more time to the family issues including my marriage.
> I probably round up the numbers about the timelines but around 2012 I stopped all the ministry helps which was taking a toll in my family including my wife of course. Then we both stayed off the ministry till last December we visited this new church where the pastor asked us to step in for help. I already started helping with the music but my wife and I always worked together.
> That's why I was originally asking for opinions at the beginning of this post.
> I wasn't asking advice for my marriage, I was asking opinions and comments about how long I should wait to integrate her in helping this new church.
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


This is a very logical question...at the appropriate time.

Please understand that this is from somebody who has headed leadership teams for churches, led worship teams, managed children Ministries, and any number of other functions within the church.

Until the affair is addressed properly, I would say that she will never be ready. And frankly, as long as you remain married to her while rug sweeping the affair, neither are you.

If you can't lead your family properly, how on Earth can your cup run over? 

I apologize if this seems harsh, but your passivity and tolerance of her behavior lacks one of the single most important factors in leadership: accountability.


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## Pepe1970

Mr Blunt said:


> If you are gaining spiritually from helping with the music then I would encourage you to continue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some posters on this thread question the sincerity of your wife’s repentance. Without true repentance there will be no healing. Since you are committed to the Christian faith then maybe some information on true repentance from a Christian perspective will help you evaluate your wife’s repentance.
> 
> In Acts 26:20 Paul states that the repentant person must prove their repentance by their deeds.
> “First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds” (Acts 26:20).
> 
> True saving faith and true repentance recognizes Scripture as God’s Word and commits to studying it and submitting to it. This should be the focus of the Christian life, and it is an evidence of true repentance.
> 
> There are three elements in genuine repentance.* First, there is conviction.* You must know what is right before you can know what is wrong. To be truly repentant, is to realize the sinfulness of your heart, to turn to God and appeal to Him for a new heart and a clean conscience through the blood of Christ. These will go on to grow the fruits of repentance.
> Before men and women can come to the cross of Christ and have their sins forgiven, they must be convicted of their sins, and that convicting work is done by the Holy Spirit upon the soul.
> 
> *The second element of true repentance is contrition*. The Bible says, “The Lord is near to those who have a broken heart, and saves such as have a contrite spirit” (Psalm 34:18, NKJV). Contrition, or “godly sorrow,” as it is called in 2 Corinthians 7:10, is neither a shallow sentiment nor empty emotion. It is a sincere regret over past sins and an earnest desire to walk in a new path of righteousness. Brokenness, with its godly sorrow for sin, is the second step toward true repentance.
> 
> *Third, repentance carries with it the idea of changing–changing your mind, changing your attitude, changing your ways*. The Bible says, “For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation” (2 Corinthians 7:10, NKJV). If we are truly repentant, our will is brought into action and we will make a reversal of direction.
> 
> Much of what I have printed above came from the Billy Graham Organization
> https://billygraham.org/decision-magazine/january-2007/true-repentance-real-change/
> 
> Pepe, according to biblical Christian theology, your wife must have true repentance before there will be any process of healing. Her responsibilities at church will be fruitless unless she obtains true repentance. That is one reason that I asked you a question in my last post. You did not answer that question so maybe you overlooked my post. Here it is again below:


That's been my original question from the very beginning.
How long should I wait??

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## arbitrator

*Her proclivity to lasciviously spread her thighs around other men there has absolutely nothing to do with the Church!

Either choose to forgive and if you can't or she cannot accept, then you need to be getting timely advice from a good family law attorney! *


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## Pepe1970

Steve1000 said:


> Is there a good reason why you don't suspect this friend to be the affair partner? I'm sorry you're going through this. I know that it is unbearable at times.


If that the case she would have to be in two places at the same time.
Besides,
Her overcrowded schedule with the kids activities won't allow such affair for that long with another man living 3 hours drive to another state.
That's why she picked a guy from the next town. Very convinient and discreet for her being with a man living close, divorced living alone, ect

Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


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## Pepe1970

cashcratebob said:


> I'm probably being a little forward and assuming too much. In any case, I am sorry you are here.


Thank you, me too

Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


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## Pepe1970

farsidejunky said:


> This is a very logical question...at the appropriate time.
> 
> Please understand that this is from somebody who has headed leadership teams for churches, led worship teams, managed children Ministries, and any number of other functions within the church.
> 
> Until the affair is addressed properly, I would say that she will never be ready. And frankly, as long as you remain married to her while rug sweeping the affair, neither are you.
> 
> If you can't lead your family properly, how on Earth can your cup run over?
> 
> I apologize if this seems harsh, but your passivity and tolerance of her behavior lacks one of the single most important factors in leadership: accountability.


Are you kidding???
I appreciate you guys taking the time to comment on this issue
Just keep it comming
I'll listen

Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


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## Pepe1970

Pepe1970 said:


> Are you kidding???
> I appreciate you guys taking the time to comment on this issue
> Just keep it comming
> I'll listen
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


Again guys
I'm sorry taking bit long to answer all the questions but I'm at work and I check all these messages when I take the five.

Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


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## bandit.45

Pepe1970 said:


> That's been my original question from the very beginning.
> *How long should I wait??*


As long as it takes for her to pull her head out of her butt and work on developing some remorse and true empathy, which in her case sounds like never.


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## farsidejunky

Pepe1970 said:


> Are you kidding???
> I appreciate you guys taking the time to comment on this issue
> Just keep it comming
> I'll listen
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


I'm assuming you're kidding question was rhetorical.

I had to deal with this specific instance when I was head of the leadership team of a church in transition between pastors. Both the husband and the wife were asked to step away from Ministry temporarily in order to get their house in order. That time needed to be devoted to them restoring their marriage.

Serving or leading in a ministry does not take priority over a healthy marriage. 

And I've got news for you... Until you stop rug sweeping your affair, your marriage will never be healthy.


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## badmemory

Pepe1970 said:


> I wasn't asking advice for my marriage, I was asking opinions and comments about how long I should wait to integrate her in helping this new church.


Then friend, you're asking the wrong questions.


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## Luvher4life

Honestly, Pepe, I don't think you really are listening. You're not addressing the real issue here. You have baggage that will not just fix itself. You have to get your own house in order before you can assume a leadership role in God's house in good conscience. And, unless your wife shows true repentance, and makes amends, becomes transparent, and focuses on you while rebuilding your trust, she will never be ready for any leadership role. While we all strive to be Christ-like, we are not Him! As a mortal man, you can't just forgive and forget something like your wife's affair with words.

I'm praying for you, and I am sorry you're going through this. Read what farsidejunky says in Post 97 ^^. I agree with him.

The answer to your question, in short, is NO she is NOT ready for any leadership role in God's house, based on what you've posted. Her heart is not right with God, and it is not right with you and your family. When will she be ready? It is dependent on when she does get her heart right.


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## Pepe1970

farsidejunky said:


> I'm assuming you're kidding question was rhetorical.
> 
> I had to deal with this specific instance when I was head of the leadership team of a church in transition between pastors. Both the husband and the wife were asked to step away from Ministry temporarily in order to get their house in order. That time needed to be devoted to them restoring their marriage.
> 
> Serving or leading in a ministry does not take priority over a healthy marriage.
> 
> And I've got news for you... Until you stop rug sweeping your affair, your marriage will never be healthy.


Yes it was retorical.
For how long they stepped away???

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## TRy

Pepe1970 said:


> That's been my original question from the very beginning.
> How long should I wait??





Pepe1970 said:


> For how long they stepped away???


You keep asking the wrong question. Instead of asking "how long", you should be asking "when". The answers as to when have already been given by farsidejunky and Luvher4life. 

Farsidejunky stated: “Serving or leading in a ministry does not take priority over a healthy marriage.” Followed by “And I've got news for you... Until you stop rug sweeping your affair, your marriage will never be healthy.”

Luvher4life stated: “And, unless your wife shows true repentance, and makes amends, becomes transparent, and focuses on you while rebuilding your trust, she will never be ready for any leadership role.”

In short, you will be ready when “you stop rug sweeping” the affair, and your wife will be ready when she “shows true repentance, and makes amends, becomes transparent, and focuses on you while rebuilding your trust”. Assuming that you are willing to do the work, and assuming that your wife is even capable of doing the work, the answer to how long it will take is “as long as it needs to take”.

I have a question for you. Your wife did not just have a brief lapse of judgment, it was a 3 year affair. With all the cheating, lying, dishonesty, and betrayal associated with your wife’s 3 year affair, what makes you think that your wife is the type of person that should ever again be in a leadership role at a church? Also, before other church goers allow their husbands to spend time alone with your wife under the presumed safety of the church, shouldn’t they be told of your wife’s 3 year affair?


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## Evinrude58

Pepe1970 said:


> If that the case she would have to be in two places at the same time.
> Besides,
> Her overcrowded schedule with the kids activities won't allow such affair for that long with another man living 3 hours drive to another state.
> That's why she picked a guy from the next town. Very convinient and discreet for her being with a man living close, divorced living alone, ect
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


My thoughts: You KNOW absolutely NOTHING about her affair. The only information you've been given is from a woman who lied to you repeatedly for at least 3 years. Do you know he's not married? No 
Do you know he lives in the next town over? No
Do you know the affair is over? NO NO NO NO And by that, I mean is she still pining for this man in her heart? All you know is what she tells you.

You've been asked how your sex life is NOW. Why? Because if she's still pining away for this man in her heart, she is certainly not remorseful, and your marriage is in dire straits. And to answer your question about "WHEN". 
The answer is simple: Until your wife is right with God, she shouldn't be a leader in any church. Until your marriage is strong, NEITHER of you should be a leader in the church.

You just got finished telling us that you backed off of the church leadership because it was taking a toll on your marriage. Well, your marriage is UNDOUBTEDLY not strong, based on what you told us. So you're planning on starting the church leadership role again, and in your heart, you know your wife is not even close to being ready for such a thing. Your marriage certainly isn't.

When your wife takes OWNERSHIP of her deeds, and REPENTS of her deeds, she will show a TOTALLY different attitude toward you. One of humility, of acceptance, of sorrow. In this case, MASSIVE sorrow and eagerness to EASE YOUR PAIN. From what you've written, you haven't seen this. I think it's more likely she is secretly wishing she was with her other man, and since you don't know who he really is, she MAY STILL BE SEEING HIM.

You haven't answered from what I've seen, why the affair ended. (and the reason SHE tells you, doesn't count, because her self preservation instincts could cause her to lie and say she ended it) That's why you need the man's NAME. So you can get more information and find out if your wife is actually remorseful and THEN determine if you can forgive her and move forward with your marriage. IF you move forward with the "What's in the past stays in the past, stop bringing it up" like she wants from you, then this marriage will fail.

We are trying to help you ask the right questions and get on the right path to getting your marriage right, if possible. Maybe, and that's a huge maybe, you and your wife can straighten things out and both work in the church again. But personally, I think it's either both of you working in the church, or neither of you. Your marriage should be strong again before you even CONSIDER devoting such huge amounts of time to the Lord's work. I think the Bible will back that up.

BTW, I was betrayed by my wife. I know how you feel. I know how badly you'd like to put this behind you and move on. Sad thing is, it is NOT as easy as putting it in the past and moving on. Not when your wife has no real remorse for what she did.

Lots and lots of truth seeking is needed on your part. It's very likely you should divorce your wife. It's also very likely if you rugsweep this, that she will divorce YOU.


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## sokillme

@Pepe1970 you need to understand as your marriage is now, with an adulterous wife who is mostly unrepentant, it is unsustainable. The adultery is like a cancer. You need to treat it. You are meant to have an abundant life, and an abundant marriage. But it may not be with this women, as she may have lost her chance at that with you. Certainly you can't have that when she doesn't even try to understand your suffering. The suffering her callousness had caused you. 

And even if she repents, which should be a requirement to even think about continuing, but even if she does, she needs to have prolonged counseling to get to the bottom of why she was able to lie to someone she professed to love, the father of her children for 3 years. 3 YEARS! A person who can do that, live a double life has serious emotional issues. Those things don't change over night, they require work. Lots of hard work. If she doesn't do that you will never be safe. Right now she sounds like she feels entitled to it. Speaking of the entitlement, I would ask you how can she stand as a leader in a Church and have the attitude she was entitled to commit adultery against you, and God? After all her marriage vows were vows taken before him. 

Thing is, read posts here all the time from men who white knuckled it like you are doing. Eventually the pain and suffering, the hard work of holding down the sorrow that you are doing ends the marriage anyway. They look at their wives and all they see is someone who put them through hell and then stood by why they suffered. How can you love someone who could do that to you. So the guy wakes up one day and is just done, the wife is in a panic offering to fix it, but by then it's too late. This is where you are headed. What you have is a terrible imbalance in your marriage. Being a Christian doesn't mean you should be a push over. I am not a big proponent of staying, but even the biggest proponent is isn't going to be when the adulterous spouse has not taken accountability. The point is you are going to have to deal with these feelings sooner or later. The more you wait the less chance your marriage will have. 

Your wife has shown you no respect and worse very little kindness. You have shown her too much grace. This was not the plan for your life. You don't and should not stay here because of fear, worse inertia, or some misplaced belief that this is what God wants.

What kind of counseling is your wife doing? Women's or marriage?


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## sokillme

One other question, being that you are in the music ministry have you ever done anything inappropriate in your marriage before this happened. I have some experience here and know the temptation? Guys on stage always have women approaching them off stage, Church or not.


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## SadSamIAm

Pepe1970 said:


> If that the case she would have to be in two places at the same time.
> Besides,
> Her overcrowded schedule with the kids activities won't allow such affair for that long with another man living 3 hours drive to another state.
> That's why she picked a guy from the next town. Very convinient and discreet for her being with a man living close, divorced living alone, ect
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


The guy that lives 3 hours away can easily drive to meet her in your town. He could leave home at 6:00am, drive to your town, spend three hours with your wife and still be home in time for supper. 

You need to know who this person is.


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## chillymorn69

So your responce was .

Don't do it again?

What did she say?

The biggest rug sweep ever.

With such a harsh ramification of just don't do it again I'm sure she won't


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## Affaircare

Pepe1970 said:


> After we got married we found a common desire to help other churches to grow. We were younger, strong, willing to help and sacrifice anything. We found many churches need a lot of help. That's how we started all the ministry. We each still had our jobs then and dedicated to those churches after work hours and in weekends. After our second child I asked her to stay at home with kids but we still helping the churches as we could.
> 
> We still have a lot of marriage problems like any married couple but we always stay afloat, then we go the third child where we were struggling to the point of dedicating more time to the family issues including my marriage.
> 
> I probably round up the numbers about the timelines but around 2012 I stopped all the ministry helps which was taking a toll in my family including my wife of course. Then we both stayed off the ministry till last December we visited this new church where the pastor asked us to step in for help. I already started helping with the music but my wife and I always worked together.
> That's why I was originally asking for opinions at the beginning of this post.
> 
> I wasn't asking advice for my marriage, I was asking opinions and comments about how long I should wait to integrate her in helping this new church.


 @Pepe1970, 

May I take some time here and answer your question, speaking to you as someone who is a Christian, and as someone who is a former disloyal spouse? I bring this up because my Dear Hubby and I were able to reconcile and recover our marriage, and thus I've not only spoken the theory of saving a marriage after an affair, I've walked the walk! I know the tears and the forgiveness, and I know both what the Bible says about it and what it's like to do it. 

So coming from that point of view, I suspect it may feel a little bit like people are piling on you with the marriage advice and the talk of repentance and whatnot, when all you wanted to know is "Hey this pastor asked us to help and I used to include her. Should I include her now or not?" Here's the thing: your marriage had gangrene. In fact, the infection had spread through the fingers and entirely up one arm, and it had begun to affect some internal organs. We are telling you "Uh, hey you really need to address this gangrene or it could end in death!!!!" and you keep saying "But all I wanted to know was whether I should put a bandaid on this finger or not." 

Your wife committed adultery for three years. It was deliberate, she continued in it, and she lied to you about what she was doing and who she was doing it with. Then for a year after she stopped committing adultery, she HID IT from you. I'm not judging her--I haven't been in her shoes, don't know what she went through, etc.--but stating it as honestly and factually as possibly from the point of view of a third party observer, those facts alone are DEVASTATING to a marriage. Those actions right there (no need to add more) abolished the covenant between you and her and God because she broke the vows REPEATEDLY. Now, for your own edification, please look up the word adultery in the Bible and see for yourself what God thinks and feels about infidelity. I'm including myself in these statements: God thinks HARSHLY of it. His anger was kindled toward Israel because they were unfaithful to Him. He sent Hosea, not as an example of "how to patiently be walked on while your spouse cheats" but as a living example of how horribly Israel was acting toward Him, and how much that HURT, and what a cost there was going to be for their choices! He says over and over again to us that we are to honor our covenants, and do you honestly think that Jesus dying on the cross means that we no longer have to experience the consequences of our sin while we are here on earth? NO, He paid our penalty for entry into God's holy presence--but if we commit adultery here on earth, we still live with the cost of sexually transmitted diseases, and children born outside the marriage, and damage done to those we are supposed to love. Look specifically at Malachi 2:16...at the context of the verse. This is the one that cheaters SO OFTEN use to guilt their betrayed spouse into "forgiving them". The whole chapter is all about God asking _*"Why do you come to the altar ... MY altar ... and cover it with tears and moan and groan asking me why I don't accept your offering? You know why? I'll TELL you why! I was a witness to the covenant between you and your wife whom you married when you were young, and you were supposed to be FAITHFUL to her. But you treated her deceitfully and traitorously! People who have the Holy Spirit don't act like that. I HATE IT when covenants are broken and when spouses hurt the very ones whom they vowed to protect! So guard your heart (and your eyes and your thoughts) so you don't treat your spouse disloyally."*_

I bring all this up because you are the head of your household. Whether you act on it or not, your wife's choice to commit adultery dropped a nuclear bomb on your old marriage. It is now rubble. As the head of the household, you will be held accountable for getting your own house in order. Now--your wife did the deed. That's not on you. But what IS on you is loving her enough to allow her to experience the natural consequences of adultery. When King David committed adultery with Bathsheba, the child of their affair was ill ... about to die. David BEAUTIFULLY repented of his sin in Psalm 51, but did that mean that the child lived, if David asked? He was sorry. Nope. The child DIED and that was the cost that the Lord required for the choices David made. It's the same here. If you refuse to allow your wife to experience the cost of infidelity--you are not loving her, and you are commanded to love her like Christ loved the Church! Trust me when I say that what Christ had to do for us HURT HIM. He was in agony. So if you love your wife, you may have to endure some discomfort as you act as a leader and help her grow in her Christianity. 

To answer the little question you keep asking "Hey this pastor asked us for help. I usually include her. When could I do that again?" Here's the answer: you can include her again, when you two have stopped avoiding the affair and rebuilt a WHOLE NEW MARRIAGE. Your old marriage died and was killed directly by her actions. It will never, EVER "be the way it was" and yet it sounds to me as if the two of you have avoided looking at the affair, shining the light of truth on it (rather than covering it up), evaluated what was wrong, chosen a new right path, and practiced building something new. See if the old marriage (house) was bombed, you'd build a new one, right? Maybe in the same spot--maybe over a little--but you would build something new! You two are living in the rubble and asking "when can we have people over for tea?" Well....when a new house is built. You have no house...and thus no one can come to tea because there isn't a house! 

Now for a more illuminating example, here is what it looks like when real, true reconciliation and recovery is happening. 

First, *on her side*, she will open up to you and answer any question you may have, holding nothing back including the OM and his contact info if you want it. She will WILLINGLY eliminate or remove every possible way of contact with the OM including even third party contact--so she'll have to let go of not only OM but also "friends" who knew of him and her as a couple or "friends" of OM's who might talk about him, etc. [This includes shutting down Facebook or Twitter if necessary, quitting a job, moving...] She will WILLINGLY open up to you and let you see her True Self--warts and all--by doing things like telling you where she really is, who she really is with, what she really is doing, etc. AND she'll WILLINGLY give you access to any cell phone, computer, device, email address, social media, etc. AND she will WILLINGLY share her true thoughts and feelings with you, even if she's afraid you'll be mad or she feels like they are dark, scary, or make her look bad! This is going to be hard and it will likely hurt her even, but the cost of choosing adultery is that she may have to leave a job she loves if she used the job to cheat...or leave people she loved if they encouraged her to cheat...or eat some crow pie and swallow her pride to let you see that she's not NEARLY the church lady inside her heart that she likes to project! 

Next, *on your side*, you may want to ask a million questions, but that will feel like the Spanish Inquisition to her even though the questions are 100% legitimate and you NEED to know--so agree to ask 2 questions a day and take 1 hour for "question time" and after that you're done for that day...something like that. You're going to want to "fall back in love again" because you want reassurance she wants you, but that will feel like pressure to feel something she doesn't yet. So you'll have to start being friends again, and sit up and talk all night about movies like you used to, and go to shows or plays together, or go play tennis or whatever your recreation is together. If you don't HAVE recreation together (outside this ministry stuff) then talk to her and find something you both enjoy and do that. The point being that on your side you'll have to have the patience of a saint--don't do the "pick me" dance and get confused that you have to date your adulterous wife "to win her back" HECK NO! Nope, this is rebuilding, and when you rebuild a house you don't start with the roof (being in love) you start with the foundation...and the foundation is friendship and companionship. You need to start being friends again. But the part that both SHE and YOU really do need to accept is that even by Biblical standards, when she made the choice to commit adultery, she gave you the moral opportunity to say "That is a deal-breaker for me and I choose to divorce you." You have every single moral right to divorce right now...as is. You do not "have to" forgive her and stay married. As soon as she accepts that the natural consequence of her choice is that she indeed lost you (and that if you choose to stay it is the kindest, most compassionate, gracious gift EVER)--and as soon as you accept that the old marriage is no more and you have the moral option to choose divorce--I think the sooner the two of you will start to see this clearly!

*The two of you together* are BOTH going to need to stop pointing fingers at "the other guy" and start looking at the wo/man in the mirror and say "What did I do to make a weakness in the old marriage"? and if you did something, then work on yourself! Be honest. If you didn't do anything, but honest about that too! Don't take blame that isn't yours. Don't let reality be swept under the rug--it really MUST be addressed. As a formerly disloyal spouse, I had to look at myself and think "Where did I first start going off track?" and then what will I do differently/better in the future? What will I change ABOUT ME? I had to ask "Where am I weak to temptation?" and then figure out how I would protect my Dear Hubby and our marriage from my weakness. We set up agreements to protect both of us...like our computer screens were always on and faced each other (so he could see mine and I could see his) and we agreed to leave them on until the other guy turned it off for the night...we didn't turn off our screens. We kept all our passwords for everything together in one place that we both shared. ETC. ETC. in order to build, save, and protect our marriage. 

And we spoke right out loud to our kids, our parents, our pastor and our church! There was no hiding or using euphemisms--I had to pull in my pride, look my children in the eye, and tell them I cheated! Man that takes the guts out of you, I'll tell ya! BUT now I have a testimony! I can talk to the people at church and encourage them that God CAN turn their marriages around but they can't ignore the issue. They have to do the Biblical thing, which is not only stopping the sin, but also starting to live right! Yes, I committed adultery. I've never regretted anything more in my LIFE! But God even used that to build a stronger, more godly marriage because we actually did the work and addressed it. 

THIS is what we are encouraging you to do, and my brother, I hope you will hear that all of this is written in love, in the hopes that you truly save your marriage and reconcile, rather than covering the gangrene with a bandaid.


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## NobodySpecial

I confess that I don't understand a lot on this thread. But the thought that popped into my head is are you having an "emotional affair" of sorts with your leadership role in your churches in order to avoid your marriage?


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## Wolf1974

bandit.45 said:


> No, no it wasn't. There was an emotional connection there. She would not have kept it going for three years if there had been no feelings between them.
> 
> That fact right there should burn your bacon.
> 
> Pepe the reason you are here and sticking around is that you know, deep down inside your gut, that your WW is not sorry for what she did. She is sorry she got caught and sorry that the whole issue has caused disruption and inconvenience in her life. *But she is not sorry for hurting and humiliating you. How can you live with that?*


OP you need to read this out loud about 50 times so you can hear yourself say it 

Then answer the question

God never intended for you to live in an abused marriage. Why do you have such low self esteem?


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## Rubix Cubed

@Pepe1970,
Read @Affaircare 's post over and over until you grasp what she so eloquently posted for you. It doesn't get any better than that.
Now for the 2x4.
I can't rap my head around how blase' you are about your wife screwing another guy for 3 years. You should really see an Individual counselor to figure out why you are cool with that unless that's your kink, and seeing how Christian you state the both of you are I doubt that that is your thing.


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## Adelais

sokillme said:


> One other question, being that you are in the music ministry *have you ever done anything inappropriate in your marriage before this happened.* I have some experience here and know the temptation? Guys on stage always have women approaching them off stage, Church or not.


I was wondering the same thing. You forgave her so quickly, and want to move on ASAP. I was wondering if you also had an affair, whether it was an emotional affair or a physical affair or a one night stand, and because of that you don't feel comfortable being upset or expecting your wife to have to pay any penalty for what she did.

Have you even had an inappropriate interaction or relationship while you were married to your wife?


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## Adelais

Rubix Cubed said:


> @Pepe1970,
> I can't rap my head around how blase' you are about your wife screwing another guy for 3 years. You should really see an Individual counselor to figure out why you are cool with that unless that's your kink, and seeing how Christian you state the both of you are I doubt that that is your thing.


 @Pepe1970

In your first post you said she was very intelligent and educated and you don't even know why she married a man like you.

Are you afraid that if you displease her by demanding the man's name and address, or if you act out because you are still hurt, or ask her to to take more steps to assure you that she is truly remorseful and a changed woman, that she will leave you?

Is that why you are compelled to let her off the hook so easily?


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## manfromlamancha

Pepe1970 said:


> After we got married we found a common desire to help other churches to grow. We were younger, strong, willing to help and sacrifice anything. We found many churches need a lot of help. That's how we started all the ministry. We each still had our jobs then and dedicated to those churches after work hours and in weekends. After our second child I asked her to stay at home with kids but we still helping the churches as we could.
> We still have a lot of marriage problems like any married couple but we always stay afloat, then we go the third child where we were struggling to the point of dedicating more time to the family issues including my marriage.
> I probably round up the numbers about the timelines but around 2012 I stopped all the ministry helps which was taking a toll in my family including my wife of course. Then we both stayed off the ministry till last December we visited this new church where the pastor asked us to step in for help. I already started helping with the music but my wife and I always worked together.
> That's why I was originally asking for opinions at the beginning of this post.
> I wasn't asking advice for my marriage, I was asking opinions and comments about how long I should wait to integrate her in helping this new church.
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk



OK if that is all you are asking then the answer is quite simple - you should wait for as long as it takes for her to tell you the whole truth, be truly remorseful in actions and if (as I believe is strongly the case), she doesn't love you anymore (at least not as much as she loves the other POS), then she should give you an amicable divorce and custody ... and then maybe she is ready for integrating into helping in the new church. 

See ... that is why everyone is trying to make you open your eyes. You are talking about when to integrate her into the work at the church while your marriage is going down in flames!!!! You don't even know who the other guy is so that you can verify if she has told you the truth. And yet you are trying to fix the marriage and only want advice on how long ? Can you not see how ridiculous this is ?


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## Quality

Pepe1970 said:


> After we got married we found a common desire to help other churches to grow. We were younger, strong, willing to help and sacrifice anything. We found many churches need a lot of help. That's how we started all the ministry. We each still had our jobs then and dedicated to those churches after work hours and in weekends. After our second child I asked her to stay at home with kids but we still helping the churches as we could.
> We still have a lot of marriage problems like any married couple but we always stay afloat, then we go the third child where we were struggling to the point of dedicating more time to the family issues including my marriage.
> I probably round up the numbers about the timelines but around 2012 I stopped all the ministry helps which was taking a toll in my family including my wife of course. Then we both stayed off the ministry till last December we visited this new church where the pastor asked us to step in for help. I already started helping with the music but my wife and I always worked together.
> That's why I was originally asking for opinions at the beginning of this post.
> I wasn't asking advice for my marriage, I was asking opinions and comments about how long I should wait to integrate her in helping this new church.
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


YOURS and your wife's testimony should be a part of any ministry you undertake and, because your wife needs biblical instruction, admonishment and correction while seeking true repentance you might just find it by removing the shame you both feel whilst protecting these secrets from the church elders and others. This isn't just her story of repentance but also your story of forgiveness and you can't "sanctify" your wife if you're too ashamed to even tell another struggling Christian {we're ALL struggling from time to time} about the things you and|or your wife once were. Marital reconciliation parallels the gospels in so many ways that you and she are missing out on so many ways to serve the body by boldly sharing your story and helping others. 

I don't consider "helping out with the music" a "ministry" in the truest sense of the word. I presume you aren't a theologian and don't have a divinity degree or anything so, even though it's an important undertaking and helpful it's just a volunteer lay position that as long as your current lifestyles adhere to the principles of your faith, neither of you have to stay away. I suggest you volunteer and work TOGETHER as much as possible {keeping her near and watching over her in love}.




someone posted this earlier in the thread:



> One of the reasons to not let religion enter this is because it tends to make you weaker not stronger in dealing with this. Especially if you are a rug sweeper (which you are) - it makes you take responsibility for her wrong doing instead of dealing with it.



I completely disagree. As a Christian living in the Word and indwelt with the Holy Spirit, you should have less fear and be stronger in dealing with this. Your leadership and headship duties are scripturally clear. You may lack the courage to follow through upon such duties and directions but that is a battle with faith and not a problem with faith itself. 

Praying over and leading your wife to true repentance is a matter of stepping out of the boat.


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## ABHale

Pepe1970 said:


> No, I think she was very picky at the time of choosing a candidate. The OM is some guy, none believer, divorced, own his own house, living in at town next to ours. When they met, it was just for sex or going out to eat.
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


This is a relationship. You know going on dates having sex. 

And by your previous post, she has done nothing but rug sweep the affair. Then gets pissy when you try and discuss it. She has no remorse about the affair, if she did she would be doing everything in her power to help you heal. 

It could just be that she doesn’t love you anymore. The affair could have ended by the OM dumping her. So she has no where else to go for the time being.


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## Pepe1970

ABHale said:


> This is a relationship. You know going on dates having sex.
> 
> And by your previous post, she has done nothing but rug sweep the affair. Then gets pissy when you try and discuss it. She has no remorse about the affair, if she did she would be doing everything in her power to help you heal.
> 
> It could just be that she doesn’t love you anymore. The affair could have ended by the OM dumping her. So she has no where else to go for the time being.


Alright guys. All I have to say is that I wish I could personally be there with you and shake your hand as a thank you for taking a minute from your busy time to make a comment on my situation. I really thank you all, it's really helping me to think and reevaluate my circumstances and don't worry about how harsh you may sound. I'm a bit of an old school guy and honesty is something I value greatly, no matter how it comes.

Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


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## Pepe1970

Pepe1970 said:


> Alright guys. All I have to say is that I wish I could personally be there with you and shake your hand as a thank you for taking a minute from your busy time to make a comment on my situation. I really thank you all, it's really helping me to think and reevaluate my circumstances and don't worry about how harsh you may sound. I'm a bit of an old school guy and honesty is something I value greatly, no matter how it comes.
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


And just to asnwer that question.
She never game the OM personal info because she thought I would hurt the guy.
And just to update you guys.
Las night I had a meeting with the pastor and told him I couldn't help with the church activities\ services anymore since I have unfinished business marriage related to deal with before we could get involved deeper in church leadership.
He was shock since he said we look like that perfect family.
He said that every marriage has problems but I told him that for the situation my marriage's going through (of course he doesn't know the truth) all the plans he had for us helping at church have to be put on hold.

Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


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## Pepe1970

Araucaria said:


> I was wondering the same thing. You forgave her so quickly, and want to move on ASAP. I was wondering if you also had an affair, whether it was an emotional affair or a physical affair or a one night stand, and because of that you don't feel comfortable being upset or expecting your wife to have to pay any penalty for what she did.
> 
> Have you even had an inappropriate interaction or relationship while you were married to your wife?


I did. 17 yrs ago

Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


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## GusPolinski

Pepe1970 said:


> And just to asnwer that question.
> *She never game the OM personal info because she thought I would hurt the guy.*
> And just to update you guys.
> Las night I had a meeting with the pastor and told him I couldn't help with the church activities\ services anymore since I have unfinished business marriage related to deal with before we could get involved deeper in church leadership.
> He was shock since he said we look like that perfect family.
> He said that every marriage has problems but I told him that for the situation my marriage's going through (of course he doesn't know the truth) all the plans he had for us helping at church have to be put on hold.


Wait... you don’t even know OM’s identity?

Not his name or anything?


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## GusPolinski

Araucaria said:


> I was wondering the same thing. You forgave her so quickly, and want to move on ASAP. I was wondering if you also had an affair, whether it was an emotional affair or a physical affair or a one night stand, and because of that you don't feel comfortable being upset or expecting your wife to have to pay any penalty for what she did.
> 
> Have you even had an inappropriate interaction or relationship while you were married to your wife?





Pepe1970 said:


> I did. 17 yrs ago


Care to clarify?


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## badmemory

Pepe1970 said:


> She never game the OM personal info because she thought I would hurt the guy.


Straight out of the Cheater's Handbook, Chapter 3, under - Excuses for Not Revealing Your Affair Partner.


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## Sparta

I knew something was tripping me out on how nonchalant he is about her affair. He had his own affair 17 years ago that he’s feeling guilty about.?


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## Malaise

TRy said:


> I have a question for you. Your wife did not just have a brief lapse of judgment, it was a 3 year affair. With all the cheating, lying, dishonesty, and betrayal associated with your wife’s 3 year affair, what makes you think that your wife is the type of person that should ever again be in a leadership role at a church? Also, before other church goers allow their husbands to spend time alone with your wife under the presumed safety of the church, shouldn’t they be told of your wife’s 3 year affair?


QFT...big time


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## sokillme

Pepe1970 said:


> I did. 17 yrs ago
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


Yeah I kind of guessed. I assume this is when you were newly married or about to be? I suspected this is why you have not been so forthcoming and why your reaction was so mild and quick to move on. But you are kind of doing the same thing you did when you cheated. Something is not right with you and in that case you looked for outside validation to fix it. Here you are still avoiding the serious issues that both of you have and the damage you both have done to each other. The thing is these issues don't fix themselves. They fester this is why it's analogous to cancer. You have to cut it out and then go to chemo to kill the rest. 

There is no way to move on from this without real work. Look at it as a pile of rocks in the road of your life, you need to remove the rocks one by one before you can move down the road. You both need to really work on the damage you have done to your relationship. That is the thing with infidelity it destroys the foundation of the marriage. There are ways to fix it but it's like having a house with a crack in the foundation, you must now be weary of it and pay attention to it. 

So you both need to have a long hard talk about your feeling, the pain and hurt you both have caused one another. This is something you can't now really deal with. Marriage counseling, individual counseling. Maybe you can have a better marriage because it sound like you have really had one with lots of damage in it now it's on both sides. 

No more running away from this and hoping time will heal it. Like I said about her you both need restitution.

By the way if you want better advice you should tell your full story. Both of your transgressions.


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## Pepe1970

Sparta said:


> I knew something was tripping me out on how nonchalant he is about her affair. He had his own affair 17 years ago that he’s feeling guilty about.?


At Sparta.
And I think I'm having the proper behavior towards my wife's affair. That's why I told her that not even I judge her and she knew what I meant with that. As I paraphrase from the Bible, "you reap what you saw".
Of course I knew what I did 17 yrs ago would bite me eventually and obviously it hurts, but I still have no right to complain, do I?

Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


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## Luvher4life

Now that you opened up about your affair 17 years ago, tell us more about that. How was it discovered? How long did it last? Does she know who you were with? Were you in church planting mission then?


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## Pepe1970

sokillme said:


> Yeah I kind of guessed. I assume this is when you were newly married or about to be? I suspected this is why you have not been so forthcoming and why your reaction was so mild and quick to move on. But you are kind of doing the same thing you did when you cheated. Something is not right with you and in that case you looked for outside validation to fix it. Here you are still avoiding the serious issues that both of you have and the damage you both have done to each other. The thing is these issues don't fix themselves. They fester this is why it's analogous to cancer. You have to cut it out and then go to chemo to kill the rest.
> 
> There is no way to move on from this without real work. Look at it as a pile of rocks in the road of your life, you need to remove the rocks one by one before you can move down the road. You both need to really work on the damage you have done to your relationship. That is the thing with infidelity it destroys the foundation of the marriage. There are ways to fix it but it's like having a house with a crack in the foundation, you must now be weary of it and pay attention to it.
> 
> So you both need to have a long hard talk about your feeling, the pain and hurt you both have caused one another. This is something you can't now really deal with. Marriage counseling, individual counseling. Maybe you can have a better marriage because it sound like you have really had one with lots of damage in it now it's on both sides.
> 
> No more running away from this and hoping time will heal it. Like I said about her you both need restitution.
> 
> By the way if you want better advice you should tell your full story. Both of your transgressions.


I understand and thank you for the comments but I never thought of the need to be " forthcoming" since what I did in the past has nothing to do with the original issue I brought to the table which is the time frame so she can help with the ministry.

Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


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## sokillme

Pepe1970 said:


> I understand and thank you for the comments but I never thought of the need to be " forthcoming" since what I did in the past has nothing to do with the original issue I brought to the table which is the time frame so she can help with the ministry.
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


I think you are not dealing in reality here. The affairs are the issue. All of this comes back to both of you stepping out on the other. Again like cancer, if you don't fix it, it will spread.


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## manfromlamancha

You are incredible man! You are even trying to rugsweep your past affair and hide it from us! The question you asked is completely dependent on knowing more about what happened (before you even consider getting back to work in the ministry with her).

So 17 years ago .... just before or just after you were married ? With whom ? What did you do ? How long ? How did it end ? How did your wife find out and when did she find out ? Why did she agree to stay with you ? Has it come up as an issue over the years ? You obviously went on to have children and it would seem that she was OK with things - then she cheats! Was your affair rugswept and never really properly discussed/addressed?

C'mon Pepe! Come clean and say everything that needs to be said and stop stringing us along! Only then can we really help. If that is what you want.


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## Pepe1970

sokillme said:


> I think you are not dealing in reality here. The affairs are the issue. All of this comes back to both of you stepping out on the other. Again like cancer, if you don't fix it, it will spread.


Noted

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## Pepe1970

manfromlamancha said:


> You are incredible man! You are even trying to rugsweep your past affair and hide it from us! The question you asked is completely dependent on knowing more about what happened (before you even consider getting back to work in the ministry with her).
> 
> So 17 years ago .... just before or just after you were married ? With whom ? What did you do ? How long ? How did it end ? How did your wife find out and when did she find out ? Why did she agree to stay with you ? Has it come up as an issue over the years ? You obviously went on to have children and it would seem that she was OK with things - then she cheats! Was your affair rugswept and never really properly discussed/addressed?
> 
> C'mon Pepe! Come clean and say everything that needs to be said and stop stringing us along! Only then can we really help. If that is what you want.


Well there a status limitation for that.
Besides I already got the info/ help I needed from you guys for the original issue I posted at the beginning. Again thank you all

Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


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## cashcratebob

Pepe1970 said:


> Well there a status limitation for that.
> Besides I already got the info/ help I needed from you guys for the original issue I posted at the beginning. Again thank you all
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


Was the answer you gleaned that the only thing she should do within the church are those positions not consider ministries (Lay, volunteer)? As in, set-up/teardown/clean-up type stuff and maybe music? But no teaching or counseling? All until there is confession/repentance/reconciliation, which includes honesty to you in all things regarding the affair. With a demonstration of repentance in her willingness to disclose/be disclosed and not hide anything or protect anyone? A willingness to travel this rough road. To do what most of the actual veterans here have said (not me). 

This sin needs to be rooted out and dealt with. Ignoring and just forgiving might sounds gracious, but it is devoid of TRUTH. Grace teaches us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passion (Titus 2) and follow and live the truth.

And that likely goes for you as well at this point, if not already done.


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## Pepe1970

cashcratebob said:


> Was the answer you gleaned that the only thing she should do within the church are those positions not consider ministries (Lay, volunteer)? As in, set-up/teardown/clean-up type stuff and maybe music? But no teaching or counseling? All until there is confession/repentance/reconciliation, which includes honesty to you in all things regarding the affair. With a demonstration of repentance in her willingness to disclose/be disclosed and not hide anything or protect anyone? A willingness to travel this rough road. To do what most of the actual veterans here have said (not me).
> 
> This sin needs to be rooted out and dealt with. Ignoring and just forgiving might sounds gracious, but it is devoid of TRUTH. Grace teaches us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passion (Titus 2) and follow and live the truth.
> 
> And that likely goes for you as well at this point, if not already done.


Agreed

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## Chaparral

My answer to your question is never. That is unless your wife repents. She hasn’t. She is hiding what she did. She hasn’t confessed. She hasn’t proven anything. She asks you to believe her. That’s loco.

When she repents she will tell you who he is. He might live down the street. She says she is afraid of what you will do so she protects him not you. He matters more than you. We see this a lot here. When she tells you everything you need to know and then BEGS for forgiveness then she has repented. She I not show through words or actions that she has repented. 

It is very handy he lives in another town and not next door. It is very handy you don’t know him. It’s really handy he doesn’t have a wife that you can warn and use to keep an eye on him. Too handy isn’t it? 

You can tell a lot about an affair by how your sex life is and how it was during the affair.

Have you looked at your phone bills to see who she was calling during the affair? Have you checked out her old phones?


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## badmemory

Pepe1970 said:


> Well there a status limitation for that.


Lol.


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## Pepe1970

Chaparral said:


> My answer to your question is never. That is unless your wife repents. She hasn’t. She is hiding what she did. She hasn’t confessed. She hasn’t proven anything. She asks you to believe her. That’s loco.
> 
> When she repents she will tell you who he is. He might live down the street. She says she is afraid of what you will do so she protects him not you. He matters more than you. We see this a lot here. When she tells you everything you need to know and then BEGS for forgiveness then she has repented. She I not show through words or actions that she has repented.
> 
> It is very handy he lives in another town and not next door. It is very handy you don’t know him. It’s really handy he doesn’t have a wife that you can warn and use to keep an eye on him. Too handy isn’t it?
> 
> You can tell a lot about an affair by how your sex life is and how it was during the affair.
> 
> Have you looked at your phone bills to see who she was calling during the affair? Have you checked out her old phones?


She handles our cell phs account. She doesn't want me to look at it because if I find something about him, she's afraid I'll hurt him

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## manfromlamancha

Pepe1970 said:


> Well there a status limitation for that.
> Besides I already got the info/ help I needed from you guys for the original issue I posted at the beginning. Again thank you all
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


Do you mean statute of limitations ? Is it because it was 17 years ago and doesn't count? Are you really 47 years old? You seem to be OK with a fvcked up marriage. Why? 

If you are saying that just because you cheated doesn't mean she should have - then there is a discussion there to be had. If you are saying you guys are even now - then that is fvcked up!

In any case let her carry on ministering or whatever it is you do in the church - maybe another beer swilling sports fan may catch her eye.


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## Pepe1970

manfromlamancha said:


> Do you mean statute of limitations ? Is it because it was 17 years ago and doesn't count? Are you really 47 years old? You seem to be OK with a fvcked up marriage. Why?
> 
> If you are saying that just because you cheated doesn't mean she should have - then there is a discussion there to be had. If you are saying you guys are even now - then that is fvcked up!
> 
> In any case let her carry on ministering or whatever it is you do in the church - maybe another beer swilling sports fan may catch her eye.


No doubt. 

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## NobodySpecial

Pepe1970 said:


> I understand and thank you for the comments but I never thought of the need to be " forthcoming" since what I did in the past has nothing to do with the original issue I brought to the table which is the time frame so she can help with the ministry.
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


6 months. Is that the kind of answer you are looking for?


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## Pepe1970

NobodySpecial said:


> 6 months. Is that the kind of answer you are looking for?


Not asnwers, just suggestions 

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## GusPolinski

@Pepe1970, until your confess your own infidelity to your wife, you’ve not owned up to it, you’ve not been held accountable for it, and you — quite frankly — have no ****ing business demanding or expecting anything from her regarding remorse, reconciliation, transparency, or anything else that doesn’t directly relate to the well-being of your children.

For 17 years you’ve been dealing with her on uneven terms, and have kept her in your marriage based on a lie.

Christ demands more.

Rise to the challenge or GTFO, IMO.


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## Pepe1970

Pepe1970 said:


> No doubt.
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


Well a lot of people already here been telling me I deserved it. If she cheated, she had her reason. That what they say

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## toblerone

Pepe1970 said:


> Well there a status limitation for that.
> Besides I already got the info/ help I needed from you guys for the original issue I posted at the beginning. Again thank you all
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


have fun changing exactly nothing in your life!

get back to us if you ever decide to do something about anything!


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## Pepe1970

GusPolinski said:


> @Pepe1970, until your confess your own infidelity to your wife, you’ve not owned up to it, you’ve not been held accountable for it, and you — quite frankly — have no ****ing business demanding or expecting anything from her regarding remorse, reconciliation, transparency, or anything else that doesn’t directly relate to the well-being of your children.
> 
> For 17 years you’ve been dealing with her on uneven terms, and have kept her in your marriage based on a lie.
> 
> Christ demands more.
> 
> Rise to the challenge or GTFO, IMO.


Oh I confessed alright years ago but her approach was different than mine when she confessed hers to me. She never wanted to talk about it all these year's about my affair in the past

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## TDSC60

God forgives all sins when the sinner confesses and asks for forgiveness. God says that we should forgive those who sin against us.

Your wife still refuses to name her affair partner.
Your wife still controls the phones and will not give you access.

Your wife has not confessed her sins to you (confessing to an affair then refusing to provide details is not a confession) and could still be hiding things from you. She is giving you completely invalid reasons for doing so.

Your wife has regret but not remorse and no empathy for the pain this causes you and the family. This attitude is not good in the eyes of God and certainly not good for you.

I think withdrawing from the church is the right thing to do. You might want to consider confessing to the pastor the reason behind this.


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## Sparta

Look buddy the reason why were telling you all this she could be still in the affair. By her protecting the OM She’s putting him before you as far as I’m concerned she still in the afair.?! You don’t know you.? You really don’t know anything about him. She could be still meeting up with him or using apps like Skype over the Internet. You haven’t checked on her you haven’t gathered any information have you.? Because she won’t let you. Be advised this will come back to haunt you if it already hasn’t.


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## Chaparral

Is she right when she says you might hurt him? I would think if you wanted to hurt him you could have gotten his number from her bill one way or the other. This leads me to believe she is like every other cheater we read about here. That means she is lying about many things. The other man may not live in another city. You may know him. He may be your friend. Have you ever suspected anyone?

Since you confessed years ago, there is no excuse for her doing this now. She cheated for years against you and your kids. Knowing she could do this tell her you need to get DNA test for your kids to see if they are yours. That lets her know you can have no trust in her because she has not repented and you have not forgiven her. That you won’t forgive her until she answers any question you ask.


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## Chaparral

Pepe1970 said:


> Well a lot of people already here been telling me I deserved it. If she cheated, she had her reason. That what they say
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


No one here thinks you deserved to be cheated on. They thought you never told her or she didn’t know. It doesn’t matter, no one deserves to be cheated on. Since you told your wife and she decided to stay with you, she did not have any right to cheat on you and still be lying by omission by not telling you who he is.


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## thummper

No, no, no!!!!! You did NOT deserve it. It seems your wife's Christianity is situational. If it suits her, she can ignore it. Later I'm sure she'll say, "Well, God forgives me, why can't you?" But Pepe none of this is your fault. She's the one who chose to give her Christian morals a rest.


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## NobodySpecial

GusPolinski said:


> @Pepe1970, until your confess your own infidelity to your wife, you’ve not owned up to it, you’ve not been held accountable for it, and you — quite frankly — have no ****ing business demanding or expecting anything from her regarding remorse, reconciliation, transparency, or anything else that doesn’t directly relate to the well-being of your children.
> 
> For 17 years you’ve been dealing with her on uneven terms, and have kept her in your marriage based on a lie.
> 
> Christ demands more.
> 
> Rise to the challenge or GTFO, IMO.


Furthermore, the idea of YOU in ministry is just awful.


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## Malaise

Pepe1970 said:


> She handles our cell phs account. She doesn't want me to look at it because if I find something about him, she's afraid I'll hurt him
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


In other words you know nothing.

Why did she tell you?


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## bandit.45

Your marriage is more important than your church ministries. You two arent the only ones capable of serving on the capacities you described. 

Until your WW repents correctly and gives you a real heartfelt apology and shows some remorse, she shouldn’t even be allowed to serve as a parking attendent at church.


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## Diana7

I would suggest that you both go and see the pastor and tell him of the affairs. Then say that neither of you will be taking part in any ministry until she has repented, stopped blaming you, and been honest about what she did and with whom. For all you know it may be someone in your church, far more likely than a man in another town, and it may explain why she wont tell you. She doesn't want the OM exposed especially as he maybe married with children. 

I would suggest that you both stay away for at least 2 years while you get this sorted out, and as for her counselling again, not sure if she ever should.

BTW have you both had checks for STD's? They are rife.


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## bandit.45

Are you okay with your wife being a wolf in the fold? Does she have the right to counsel other people on how to live their lives?


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## Adelais

Pepe1970 said:


> She handles our cell phs account. She doesn't want me to look at it because if I find something about him, she's afraid I'll hurt him
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


Get that password and go to the account and print off the call records!! 

Going to give you some of my own history:

Phone records is how I figured out the timeline of my husband's affair, and put the pieces together (he was so in luurve during the affair he was living on air, hardly sleeping, and later couldn't remember the sequence of events of the affair when he was coming 100% clean after we were in R.) When he ended the affair he wanted to block everything out of his mind, and successfully did it to some degree, but I wanted to know a lot of things.

I found out by our phone records that the OW called my husband first every day 80% of the time. She initiated 76% of all calls throughout their 12 day affair. They spoke for 31 hours! (Yes, I'm a STEM geek.. ) She went after him strong, and he willingly went along for the ride. He liked being pursued. 

Studying the phone records is how I figured out that my husband wasn't "tired" that time he said he was tired (at 11 p.m.) and had to get off the phone so he could get some sleep. The phone records show that the dirty homewrecker OW had called him while we were talking and left a voice mail. Phone records show that he hung up from me a minute later and he immediately called her and my "tired" husband talked with her until 3:30 a.m.

For a couple of years after that I called him whenever I wanted, and we talked on the phone for as long as IIIIII wanted to talk!

GET THOSE PHONE RECORDS!!

I hacked a secret email he had and I found a "poor me" letter he had written to himself during the affair, rewriting our marital history, justifying his affair and misinterpreting 2 scriptures to try to justify divorcing me. I printed it and showed it to him, and he now admits he was just short of insane during the affair and not thinking clearly. He says that the letter doesn't even sound like him, even though he knows he wrote it. It is a sobering reminder of how far off from reality he was during that short time. But that letter was written by him, came from his mind, and heart. It shows how he can twist things around to suit what he wants. He can't deny that.

I'm amazed at what I did to find out as much as I could and am glad I figured it all out, because it helped get him off his high horse and come down to earth so he is able to be an even better man than he was before the affair. In many ways my husband is an amazing man. He just had a few areas that stunk, and now he is working on those areas.

Do you and your wife have all passwords to each other's emails, facebook, bank accounts, phones, phone accounts, etc. so either of you can check their activity any time? If not, there is another huge vulnerability in your marriage. The only privacy in marriage is to go to the bathroom...without the phone in hand.

If both you or your wife aren't willing to give each other 100% access to everything, someone has something to hide and your marriage is in peril.


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## Adelais

Pepe1970 said:


> I understand and thank you for the comments but I never thought of the need to be " forthcoming" since what I did in the past has nothing to do with the original issue I brought to the table which is the time frame so she can help with the ministry.
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


It has nothing to do with when your wife should return to the ministry.

It may have something to do with why you rug swept her affair.

Do you think that you rug swept her affair because you feel you don't have a right to demand anything from her since you did something inappropriate 17 years ago?

Did you also shut her off from full discovery when she found out about your behavior 17 years ago? How did the two of you handle it? 

What exactly did you do 17 years ago?

Does she think she had a right to what she did since you did something 17 years ago?

All these questions need to be answered, not to me, but in your and her own minds so you stop this cycle of cheating.


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## eric1

She is refusing to give up his identity because she wants to protect him. He’s likely married as well.

You should take it as a grave insult that she will not give you information because you can’t be trusted with it.

Frankly, she’s hiding something. Your only choice right now is speaking with a lawyer to atleast understand your rights should she continue on this trajectory.

You are a religious man and forgiveness is actually a moral item, not practical. What is practical is what he’s taught us about redemption. You have made redemption available to her but if she does not take it then you need to make your own choices. 

You are free to forgive at any point, but that shouldn’t be mistaken for reality.


----------



## Diana7

eric1 said:


> She is refusing to give up his identity because she wants to protect him. He’s likely married as well.
> 
> You should take it as a grave insult that she will not give you information because you can’t be trusted with it.
> 
> Frankly, she’s hiding something. Your only choice right now is speaking with a lawyer to atleast understand your rights should she continue on this trajectory.
> 
> You are a religious man and forgiveness is actually a moral item, not practical. What is practical is what he’s taught us about redemption. You have made redemption available to her but if she does not take it then you need to make your own choices.
> 
> You are free to forgive at any point, but that shouldn’t be mistaken for reality.


Agreed, and even though God does forgive if we are truly repentant, He doesn't protect us from the consequences of our actions as the OP has done. Its disturbing to think that the OM could even be someone in their church who is also in ministry (and who clearly shouldn't be), and whose wife doesn't even know. That's why she has to come clean on who it is, as the very first step to restoration. 

OP you are hiding your head in the sand here. You have dealt with nothing. Avoiding it is not going to help you, her or the marriage. At the very least get some MC. 
I suspect that you are afraid of your own affair coming out which is why you refuse to tell the pastor.


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## Primrose

Pepe1970 said:


> She handles our cell phs account. She doesn't want me to look at it because if I find something about him, she's afraid I'll hurt him
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


Wait. You said she ended the affair in 2016. How would you find him in your cell phone account if there has been no contact for nearly 2 years now?

The fact that she handles the account AND won't tell you who he is means she's still communicating with him.


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## manfromlamancha

Pepe1970 said:


> Well a lot of people already here been telling me I deserved it. If she cheated, she had her reason. That what they say
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


Well I, for one, am certainly NOT suggesting that she had her reason or that her cheating was justified in any way (just as yours was not justified in any way).

It is important to understand what happened when you confessed - did you give her all the details ? Were there any consequences ? Did you show true remorse ? Did you truly feel remorse or more like justified ? Was the affair rug swept ? Why did you do it (in your opinion)? Who was the other woman and how did you meet ? How long did it go on for ? Did your wife know her and if not, did she find out who the POSOW was? Did your family and friends find out ? All of this is important to understand the dynamics here.

You cannot have an answer or suggestion in response to your question until you deal with the affair itself. And not knowing who the POSOM is, would be a showstopper!


----------



## TRy

Primrose said:


> Wait. You said she ended the affair in 2016. How would you find him in your cell phone account if there has been no contact for nearly 2 years now?


 Good catch Primrose. You are right that "if there has been no contact for nearly 2 years" like the OP's wife claims, then since on-line phone records only go back 1 year, there is no reason for her to have not given the OP the user name and password to the phone account, other than she is still in contact with the other man (OM). Also, since the OP is clearly trying to live under God's rules, he is the least likely person to use violence against the OM, and she knows it. Her excuse for not giving the OP his name is thus also a lie.

She is still lying about the affair and protecting the OM over helping the OP deal with the affair. Her treatment of the OP is still the same as when she says she was in the affair, in that she prioritizes the OM and is still assigning the OP the role of someone that it is OK for her to be dishonest with; you can bet that since the affair started until today, she respects the OM too much to ever assigning him that role. From day one of the affair, she promised the OM that she would protect him and not tell anyone about his cheating, and keeping that promise means more to her than the OP or her marriage vows. It is amazing how after the discovery of the affair, protecting the affair partner over the needs of the spouse is almost always one of the top priorities of the cheater. It is like they all follow a cheater's script.


----------



## [email protected]

You actively seek to place your unrepentant adulteress wife in a church leadership role. In so doing, you bring dishonor
upon Christ's church before the world. You dishonor Christ. The agnostics will say, "Look at all the hypocrites within the church."
Your pitiful example could actually dissuade others from belief in Christ!


----------



## Pepe1970

manfromlamancha said:


> Well I, for one, am certainly NOT suggesting that she had her reason or that her cheating was justified in any way (just as yours was not justified in any way).
> 
> It is important to understand what happened when you confessed - did you give her all the details ? Were there any consequences ? Did you show true remorse ? Did you truly feel remorse or more like justified ? Was the affair rug swept ? Why did you do it (in your opinion)? Who was the other woman and how did you meet ? How long did it go on for ? Did your wife know her and if not, did she find out who the POSOW was? Did your family and friends find out ? All of this is important to understand the dynamics here.
> 
> You cannot have an answer or suggestion in response to your question until you deal with the affair itself. And not knowing who the POSOM is, would be a showstopper!


Well you're right about that but even if I knew who he was, what I'm going to do with him?? Beat the **** out of him???? Not like it's not my desire but that would end up me with charges and who knows what else

Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


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## rrrbbbttt

You bring the Affair into the Light.

If he is married or dating someone else they need to know.


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## manfromlamancha

rrrbbbttt said:


> You bring the Affair into the Light.
> 
> If he is married or dating someone else they need to know.


Exactly. You verify what actually happened too. Also you might be in the same room as him and never know (he might even shake your hand) which is disrespectful.

Would you care to answer the questions on what happened with your affair?


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## Diana7

Pepe1970 said:


> Well you're right about that but even if I knew who he was, what I'm going to do with him?? Beat the **** out of him???? Not like it's not my desire but that would end up me with charges and who knows what else
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


Yo need to know because it may be a man you know, maybe from your church. He may also be married and his wife needs to know. He may be in some sort of ministry and that needs to stop. 
The fact that she isn't telling you is probably because you know him. If it really is some random divorced man from a distance away she would have told you.


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## NobodySpecial

I don't really understand this. Your own house is not in order and your first priority is to seek to minister to others? How does that make sense?


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## Malaise

Pepe1970 said:


> Well you're right about that but even if I knew who he was, what I'm going to do with him?? Beat the **** out of him???? Not like it's not my desire but that would end up me with charges and who knows what else
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


I'll echo what others have said : She's protecting him, in her mind he's still " her guy".

The guy she's loyal to. 

Not you.


----------



## Pepe1970

Araucaria said:


> It has nothing to do with when your wife should return to the ministry.
> 
> It may have something to do with why you rug swept her affair.
> 
> Do you think that you rug swept her affair because you feel you don't have a right to demand anything from her since you did something inappropriate 17 years ago?
> 
> Did you also shut her off from full discovery when she found out about your behavior 17 years ago? How did the two of you handle it?
> 
> What exactly did you do 17 years ago?
> 
> Does she think she had a right to what she did since you did something 17 years ago?
> 
> All these questions need to be answered, not to me, but in your and her own minds so you stop this cycle of cheating.


I will answer those questions to you anyway.
Actually it wasn't 17 it was 15 years ago to be more accurate.
So here we go........
The two first years we were serving in this new church I started taking over the music department, all had to do with services, concerts, recitals, practices and special events. It felt like a full-time job for me and my wife and still had our regular jobs. I always been a warehouse or factory man and she just got her master in psychology by then and had a nice job. She was doing all the women conferences, mainly the speaker for youth women dept, sunday school , ect, ect
Throughout those two years we started to fight more and more, it started affecting the ministry, it became too obvious in front of the congregations and I decided to stop all the ministry. My integrity came first.
At some point we separated, we both were hurt but she was devastated.
After the separation I met someone, nothing planned, meaningless relationship. My wife found out easily which it was even more devastating for her to the point of being hospitalized. 
While the separation she also was seeing other guys but never had sex (or so she said) but we were still in contact once in a while and stayed in my apt sometimes and had sex of course, from where she got pregnant.
After I found out she was pregnant I assumed my roll and brought her to live with me and we stayed together since then. For all these years she never wanted to really talk about my affairs and I always wanted to respected her way of dealing with it.

Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


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## Chaparral

NobodySpecial said:


> I don't really understand this. Your own house is not in order and your first priority is to seek to minister to others? How does that make sense?


He didn’t say it was his first, second or even third priority.
If only sin free people participate in church operations there would be no churches.


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## Chaparral

Pepe1970 said:


> I will answer those questions to you anyway.
> Actually it wasn't 17 it was 15 years ago to be more accurate.
> So here we go........
> The two first years we were serving in this new church I started taking over the music department, all had to do with services, concerts, recitals, practices and special events. It felt like a full-time job for me and my wife and still had our regular jobs. I always been a warehouse or factory man and she just got her master in psychology by then and had a nice job. She was doing all the women conferences, mainly the speaker for youth women dept, sunday school , ect, ect
> Throughout those two years we started to fight more and more, it started affecting the ministry, it became too obvious in front of the congregations and I decided to stop all the ministry. My integrity came first.
> At some point we separated, we both were hurt but she was devastated.
> After the separation I met someone, nothing planned, meaningless relationship. My wife found out easily which it was even more devastating for her to the point of being hospitalized.
> While the separation she also was seeing other guys but never had sex (or so she said) but we were still in contact once in a while and stayed in my apt sometimes and had sex of course, from where she got pregnant.
> After I found out she was pregnant I assumed my roll and brought her to live with me and we stayed together since then. For all these years she never wanted to really talk about my affairs and I always wanted to respected her way of dealing with it.
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


Please take some of these posts with a grain of salt. There is way to much speculation going on instead of dealing with what is posted to the point it’s obvious some are not even reading all the posts.

What you two did while separated, both dating, has nothing to do with her having a three year affair.

Your problem as I see it is she has not come clean, refuses to do so and therefore has not repented her sin against you and God. I personally can not see why you are still with her. If she has not repented you cannot forgive her. She hasn’t made things right. She doesn’t respect you. 

Her lover may be someone close to you. That makes more sense than some stranger in another town. It looks like she is protecting him. However, if it is someone you know, would you try and hurt him?


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## Adelais

Pepe1970 said:


> I will answer those questions to you anyway.
> Actually it wasn't 17 it was 15 years ago to be more accurate.
> So here we go........
> The two first years we were serving in this new church I started taking over the music department, all had to do with services, concerts, recitals, practices and special events. It felt like a full-time job for me and my wife and still had our regular jobs. I always been a warehouse or factory man and she just got her master in psychology by then and had a nice job. She was doing all the women conferences, mainly the speaker for youth women dept, sunday school , ect, ect
> Throughout those two years we started to fight more and more, it started affecting the ministry, it became too obvious in front of the congregations and I decided to stop all the ministry. My integrity came first.
> At some point we separated, we both were hurt but she was devastated.
> After the separation I met someone, nothing planned, meaningless relationship. My wife found out easily which it was even more devastating for her to the point of being hospitalized.
> While the separation she also was seeing other guys but never had sex (or so she said) but we were still in contact once in a while and stayed in my apt sometimes and had sex of course, from where she got pregnant.
> After I found out she was pregnant I assumed my roll and brought her to live with me and we stayed together since then. For all these years she never wanted to really talk about my affairs and I always wanted to respected her way of dealing with it.
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk



Both of you dated when you were separated 15 years ago. IMO what happened while you were separated has nothing to do with what is happening today @Pepe1970. Thanks for telling us, because that information helps clear the air about any previous cheating on your part: you have not cheated on her.


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## jlg07

Pepe1970 said:


> Thank you for your words and yes she had feelings for him. I found an old text to one of her friends that she was going to break with the OM and she was heart broken to make that decision since she wanted to *remain faithful to me*.


ARE YOU KIDDING?? She wasn't faithful to you, so how could she "remain" faithful to you? She is NOT remorseful. She had a RELATIONSHIP with this man that should have been yours. She is NOT Christian in her actions. She lied, committed adultery, and did NOT follow her vocation -- which was to be a wife to you. She hasn't answered all your questions, has trickle-truthed you from the sound of it, and wants to just sweep it under the rug and NOT have any repercussions due to it. NOT a good way to Reconcile. What happens the next time she's tempted -- she will cheat again. I wouldn't worry if she should work in the Church (she shouldn't) -- I would worry do you really want to stay married to this person.


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## manfromlamancha

So 15 years ago before you had kids the two of you started fighting regularly to the point where others noticed. So I am going to assume the fighting was bad. By the way, I detect you feeling somewhat inferior to her "I am a warehouse guy" "she is educated blah blah". Not good - you need to work on that.


Anyway, when you separated, you both agreed that you could see others. To me - that is a divorce. She says she didn't sleep with any of them but you were honest enough to admit that you did. Did you think you were cheating at the time ? (remember what I said about you taking the blame for most things because she is such a "good person"). Also you will never know if she did or she didn't - certainly sounds like she well could have and you would never know. So if this is cheating, lets just say that you BOTH cheated i.e. went out with others.

She then gets pregnant (did you ever DNA the kid ?). You somehow get back together for the sake of the baby (assuming it is yours) which is commendable. But you didn't address the issues where both of you were dating others while sleeping with each other at the same time - sounds kind of fvcked up to me.

12 years later she gets into another relationship with yet another man. Maybe one of the guys she was dating at the start when you separated. Maybe she never broke it off with him - who knows. This time it goes on for 3 years!!!! Much much worse. And you still don't know who he is. She gives you some feeble excuse about worrying that you would hurt him (what a load of codswallop). More likely, she is protecting him because he is closer than you think.

3 years is a long time to be with someone. This is (as I said before) a mini- marriage. She is not that upset with you from what I can see - just likes to have her cake and eat it at the same time! Otherwise referred to as devoid of morals - not the sort of person you have hanging around Christian churches, little children, innocent people etc. Hope I am making you see how wrong she is.

Please address this before you start taking her back into churches etc. You also need to really work on yourself and your self esteem. Separate from her (let her go back to the [email protected] if she wants - they deserve each other). Make yourself stronger and better. See an attorney as soon as you can and protect yourself financially and with respect to custody.

Please wake up!


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

VermiciousKnid said:


> I have an agenda? Who knew? Can you tell me what it is because if I'm going to have an agenda I think I should at least know what it is. As for being helpful or not to OP, wouldn't your post fall into that exact thing you're accusing me of?


You seem to want to go around and express your distaste for Christianity. Understandable (I am not Christian myself for much the same reason as you), but there is a religion forum for that.

You're right. My post does not immediately help the OP, although he may find some support in others not jumping on the bash the Christian bandwagon. But the real intent is to dissuade future out of scope threadjacks on this, and other threads, in which case everyone, including the OP, benefits.


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## bandit.45

Pepe1970 said:


> I will answer those questions to you anyway.
> Actually it wasn't 17 it was 15 years ago to be more accurate.
> So here we go........
> The two first years we were serving in this new church I started taking over the music department, all had to do with services, concerts, recitals, practices and special events. It felt like a full-time job for me and my wife and still had our regular jobs. I always been a warehouse or factory man and *she just got her master in psychology by then and had a nice job*. She was doing all the women conferences, mainly the speaker for youth women dept, sunday school , ect, ect


*So we can assume she was making more than you and was the primary breadwinner. Hmm. Well sometimes that is not good. Many women don't respect husbands who make less money than they do. Your wife most likely resented this, which led to:*



> *Throughout those two years we started to fight more and more*, it started affecting the ministry, it became too obvious in front of the congregations and I decided to stop all the ministry. My integrity came first.
> At some point we separated, we both were hurt but she was devastated.
> After the separation I met someone, nothing planned, meaningless relationship. My wife found out easily which it was even more devastating for her to the point of being hospitalized.


*Okay so you took the first plunge into adultery. *



> While the separation she also was seeing other guys but never had sex (or so she said)


*...and I have a steamboat in the Sahara I'd like to sell you...*




> but we were still in contact once in a while and stayed in my apt sometimes and had sex of course, from where she got pregnant.


*So she was sleeping around too. Are you sure that kid is yours? * 



> After I found out she was pregnant I assumed my roll and brought her to live with me and we stayed together since then. For all these years she never wanted to really talk about my affairs and I always wanted to respected her way of dealing with it.
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


*
So...you never even thought to question the paternity of the child? And you both rug-swept your mutual affairs...

Boy...between the naiveté and the hypocrisy displayed by both you and your wife, it's no wonder Christians get a bad rap these days.*


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## jlg07

Pepe1970 said:


> She handles our cell phs account. She doesn't want me to look at it because if I find something about him, she's afraid I'll hurt him


You should not accept that. Find the bills and find out the info. For all you know HE could be married and she doesn't want to you to clue in his wife. You really know nothing about him. I have NO IDEA how you could have any closure on this without getting the full truth. Did you tell your wife about who YOUR AP was?


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## SadSamIAm

Araucaria said:


> Both of you dated when you were separated 15 years ago. IMO what happened while you were separated has nothing to do with what is happening today @Pepe1970. Thanks for telling us, because that information helps clear the air about any previous cheating on your part: you have not cheated on her.


He said, "After the separation I met someone". I take that to mean that he did cheat after they got back together.


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## Pepe1970

jlg07 said:


> You should not accept that. Find the bills and find out the info. For all you know HE could be married and she doesn't want to you to clue in his wife. You really know nothing about him. I have NO IDEA how you could have any closure on this without getting the full truth. Did you tell your wife about who YOUR AP was?


I didn't have to tell her. She knew, she saw me with the OW

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## jlg07

Pepe1970 said:


> I didn't have to tell her. She knew, she saw me with the OW


Thanks for clarifying that, but I think the situation was a bit different -- you were separated and BOTH of you were dating. I would guess she DID have sex with others and didn't come clean.

You DID ignore the rest of my statement -- you seem to WANT to ignore getting all the info you can. How is it you are not RIP ROARING PISSED OFF about this. Cheating for THREE YEARS! I'm mad for you. It's just wrong yet you seem completely calm/ok with it. Are you, or is it just coming across that way in the forum?


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## Pepe1970

jlg07 said:


> Thanks for clarifying that, but I think the situation was a bit different -- you were separated and BOTH of you were dating. I would guess she DID have sex with others and didn't come clean.
> 
> You DID ignore the rest of my statement -- you seem to WANT to ignore getting all the info you can. How is it you are not RIP ROARING PISSED OFF about this. Cheating for THREE YEARS! I'm mad for you. It's just wrong yet you seem completely calm/ok with it. Are you, or is it just coming across that way in the forum?


Well remember she told me this like ten months ago as I said before so I had enough time to turn into a monster the first months which I did but after the storm there's the calm time which help me to reflex and take control of my emotions to deal with this properly. Besides thinking about my kids helped me to deal keeping my anger under control.

Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


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## manwithnoname

SadSamIAm said:


> He said, "After the separation I met someone". I take that to mean that he did cheat after they got back together.


Huh??


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## Pepe1970

manwithnoname said:


> Huh??


Ok to clarify. That means, after we split.

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## ABHale

Pepe1970 said:


> I will answer those questions to you anyway.
> Actually it wasn't 17 it was 15 years ago to be more accurate.
> So here we go........
> The two first years we were serving in this new church I started taking over the music department, all had to do with services, concerts, recitals, practices and special events. It felt like a full-time job for me and my wife and still had our regular jobs. I always been a warehouse or factory man and she just got her master in psychology by then and had a nice job. She was doing all the women conferences, mainly the speaker for youth women dept, sunday school , ect, ect
> Throughout those two years we started to fight more and more, it started affecting the ministry, it became too obvious in front of the congregations and I decided to stop all the ministry. My integrity came first.
> At some point we separated, we both were hurt but she was devastated.
> After the separation I met someone, nothing planned, meaningless relationship. My wife found out easily which it was even more devastating for her to the point of being hospitalized.
> While the separation she also was seeing other guys but never had sex (or so she said) but we were still in contact once in a while and stayed in my apt sometimes and had sex of course, from where she got pregnant.
> After I found out she was pregnant I assumed my roll and brought her to live with me and we stayed together since then. For all these years she never wanted to really talk about my affairs and I always wanted to respected her way of dealing with it.
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


So you both were seeing other people during the separation. So why give her a pass for a three year affair? She took the separation hard, she was dating as well 15 years ago. 

This doesn’t make sense, it’s like it is now. It’s ok for her to date others or have an affair but not you. I guess she went into the hospital after she found out that you were trying to move on.

Did she blame you for her affair or did she take responsibility for it?


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## Pepe1970

VermiciousKnid said:


> I have no distaste for any religion. I just don't have time for it in my life nor do I believe in their version of the origin of the universe. People can gather and form whatever kind of clubs they like. Churches, bowling leagues, sowing circles, etc. I don't care. I was just pointing out how many Christians, like this mayor, do a horrible thing, get caught and then say well God forgives me so it's all good. First, how do they know? What if God doesn't forgive them? If he forgives all, then how did anyone end up in hell?


I think I have an answer for that.
Look, God is the perfect being creator of heaven and Earth.
By nature we already know what's wrong and what's right.
God knows our hearts, he knows our minds, our thoughts, our intentions, our plans.
So when we do something wrong, he already knows why we did it. What was our intention to do it, what was the plan. So he's the one to judge to forgive for our wrong doing. In his perfect will he wants us to turn to him and always give us another chance before we die.
The thing is that many people keep doing the wrong things over and over and over, that's why at the end, they meet the consequences. Going to hell if you like to use that term.

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## Diana7

VermiciousKnid said:


> I have no distaste for any religion. I just don't have time for it in my life nor do I believe in their version of the origin of the universe. People can gather and form whatever kind of clubs they like. Churches, bowling leagues, sowing circles, etc. I don't care. I was just pointing out how many Christians, like this mayor, do a horrible thing, get caught and then say well God forgives me so it's all good. First, how do they know? What if God doesn't forgive them? If he forgives all, then how did anyone end up in hell?


Firstly God only forgives those who come to Him and ask for forgiveness and are repentant. 
Secondly if someone thinks they can do what they like and then expect forgiveness so its ok, they have got the completely wrong idea of what it is to be a Christian.


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## Diana7

Araucaria said:


> Both of you dated when you were separated 15 years ago. IMO what happened while you were separated has nothing to do with what is happening today @Pepe1970. Thanks for telling us, because that information helps clear the air about any previous cheating on your part: you have not cheated on her.


If they were married it was still cheating. If you are a Christian its still wrong to have sex outside marriage.


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## Pepe1970

ABHale said:


> So you both were seeing other people during the separation. So why give her a pass for a three year affair? She took the separation hard, she was dating as well 15 years ago.
> 
> This doesn’t make sense, it’s like it is now. It’s ok for her to date others or have an affair but not you. I guess she went into the hospital after she found out that you were trying to move on.
> 
> Did she blame you for her affair or did she take responsibility for it?


No cheater takes responsibility for their cheating. They always blame the other spouse for what they did even if it could be true.
In her case she blame me for not being Loving enough, for being mean, for being distant, for being sexless, for not giving her enough attention, for not this, for not that. Take your pick and make new ones too if you like.
I did the same thing when I cheated when we were separated. I blamed her for being boring, for not give me my space, for being too clingy and other things I came up with that help me justify my cheating. Which they're all were true (her excuses or mine) but at the end nothing force you to cheat on your spouse. It always your own decision to betray your marriage, your Parenthood (if you have kids), your home, your church and everything else that is part of your life and you care for.

Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


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## Chaparral

Treating her badly is breaking your marriage vows as anChristian? Why would you do that? Was she also treating you badly? Do you feel like she has repented? Has she asked for forgiveness?


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## Diana7

Pepe, I was talking to my husband today about this thread and all that you have said. 

He has been a Christian for over 50 years, and was a deacon in a previous church and runs a men's group. 

His immediate responsible was, they must withdraw from all church ministry and spend a lot of time in MC and get their lives sorted out. 
Personally I would give it at least 2 years of counselling before you even think of starting ministry again and then only once you have told the pastor so that he can agree or not. My husband also thought it was bizzare that she hasn't told you who the affair partner is, and that you haven't made the decision to go and seek out those phone records for yourself. I am guessing she is afraid that you will find out who he actually is. 

Since I asked him, I have now read that 15 years ago when you were married you had a time of separation when you both dated again (her with more than one man), and at least one of you cheated physically as well, as well as coming together occasionally to have sex. Have you any idea how messed up that sounds? Firstly why were either of you dating when you were still married and not even going through a divorce. Secondly whose idea was it to date others and have sex together as well? Thirdly if you are a Christian sex outside marriage is a no no anyway.

You both need a LOT of time and help from a third party to get yourselves sorted out. Maybe one day in the future you will both be able to get back into some sort of ministry, but only once you have both been though lots of prayer, counselling and reflection. 
The more you tell us the more messed up you both sound. Maybe this is your God given opportunity to have help and support to fix things before its too late.


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## Pepe1970

Diana7 said:


> Firstly God only forgives those who come to Him and ask for forgiveness and are repentant.
> Secondly if someone thinks they can do what they like and then expect forgiveness so its ok, they have got the completely wrong idea of what it is to be a Christian.


The problem with that is that people take advantage of the fact that God is a loving God and they miss his other side of anger.

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## Diana7

Pepe1970 said:


> No cheater takes responsibility for their cheating. They always blame the other spouse for what they did even if it could be true.
> In her case she blame me for not being Loving enough, for being mean, for being distant, for being sexless, for not giving her enough attention, for not this, for not that. Take your pick and make new ones too if you like.
> I did the same thing when I cheated when we were separated. I blamed her for being boring, for not give me my space, for being too clingy and other things I came up with that help me justify my cheating. Which they're all were true (her excuses or mine) but at the end nothing force you to cheat on your spouse. It always your own decision to betray your marriage, your Parenthood (if you have kids), your home, your church and everything else that is part of your life and you care for.
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


Agreed and that's why you both need to take full responsibility and repent. To each other, to God and to the pastor as it was his church you were ministering in while you both cheated.


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## Diana7

Pepe1970 said:


> The problem with that is that people take advantage of the fact that God is a loving God and they miss his other side of anger.
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


Yes and they deny the seriousness of what they have done, as you and your wife have.


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## Pepe1970

Chaparral said:


> Treating her badly is breaking your marriage vows as anChristian? Why would you do that? Was she also treating you badly? Do you feel like she has repented? Has she asked for forgiveness?


I don't remember ever being abusive or anything like that but we both have very strong tempers and when we argued we were very hurtful.
Came to learn that when we get angry we say thing we don't mean but still said it and it's too late to take them back

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## Pepe1970

Diana7 said:


> Agreed and that's why you both need to take full responsibility and repent. To each other, to God and to the pastor as it was his church you were ministering in while you both cheated.


We did repent to each other. We had an emotional moment, we cried we forgave each other for all the hurt we caused and started to make rules to help us to get better. I started to treat her like a queen but she doesn't show much of the fruit. I honestly don't see much change from her.
She tells me how happy she is by seeing in me a new man and how proud she is of me but sometimes I wish I could say the same of her.
I told her about this but she says she needs time for a notable change even though she says she's changed in the inside. Whatever that means.


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## manwithnoname

Pepe1970 said:


> Ok to clarify. That means, after we split.
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


I understand what you meant, but was confused by the other poster's comment, it didn't make sense to me.


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## Pepe1970

Pepe1970 said:


> We did repent to each other. We had an emotional moment, we cried we forgave each other for all the hurt we caused and started to make rules to help us to get better. I started to treat her like a queen but she doesn't show much of the fruit. I honestly don't see much change from her.
> She tells me how happy she is by seeing in me a new man and how proud she is of me but sometimes I wish I could say the same of her.
> I told her about this but she says she needs time for a notable change even though she says she's changed in the inside. Whatever that means.
> 
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


We have the moment of " reconciliation " I was sincere but for her I'm no sure. No offense to women but they usually get swept by the moment and I think that what happened to her. She cried, she forgave me but what about after?

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## TRy

Pepe1970 said:


> At some point we separated, we both were hurt but she was devastated.
> After the separation I met someone, nothing planned, meaningless relationship. My wife found out easily which it was even more devastating for her to the point of being hospitalized.
> While the separation she also was seeing other guys but never had sex (or so she said) but we were still in contact once in a while and stayed in my apt sometimes and had sex of course, from where she got pregnant.


 If that is what you did, then you did not cheat. You separated, were not in regular contact with each other, and were both seeing other people. There was no longer an understanding of being exclusive between the two of you. No exclusive understanding means no cheating took place. You did what you are supposed to do, by openly ending the relationship prior to seeing others. Cheaters do what your wife did. They lie to their spouse and see others behind their spouse’s back.

You have been mind f****d by a lying, blame-shifting, cheat into false believing that there is a moral equivalency between her long term affair behind your back, with your dating when you separated and where single. You may have been the one to end the relationship with her, but that is not cheating.


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## Diana7

Pepe1970 said:


> We did repent to each other. We had an emotional moment, we cried we forgave each other for all the hurt we caused and started to make rules to help us to get better. I started to treat her like a queen but she doesn't show much of the fruit. I honestly don't see much change from her.
> She tells me how happy she is by seeing in me a new man and how proud she is of me but sometimes I wish I could say the same of her.
> I told her about this but she says she needs time for a notable change even though she says she's changed in the inside. Whatever that means.
> 
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk



Yet her actions dont show repentance.She hasn't told you who it was with, she still blames you. She is secretive with the phone records.


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## MattMatt

*MODERATOR WARNING:* 

*There will be no more attacking, baiting, off topic threadjacks in this thread.*

No discussion will be entered into regarding this matter.

Further action may be considered.


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## TRy

Pepe1970 said:


> I did the same thing when I cheated when we were separated. I blamed her for being boring, for not give me my space, for being too clingy and other things I came up with that help me justify my cheating.


 Do you not see the contradiction in your statement that “I cheated when we were separated”? It was not cheating if you are separated and both seeing others. You are looking to rug sweep by falsely sharing blame.


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## sokillme

Look man, if you handled all this crap both of you have put in your marriage the same way you handled you post on here no wonder nothing has been fixed. Sorry but I have to call you out now. You should have lead with all the info, yet you kept it hidden. Why? Do you really want help or just to have your opinion reinforced?

I thought you came on here in good faith looking for advice (which was always really about your marriage, it's obvious) but instead of getting to the real issue you couch your whole post about ministry. (Like why would you be posting about ministry on a marriage board to begin with, that was the first sign.) So first off HELL NO neither one of you should be anywhere near ministry. It's pretty obvious. The way you both have behaved and seeing people in leadership behave this way is the reason why I don't even like to go to church at the moment. Yeah, my abusive step father was a music minister in church. I got to see the rank hypocrisy and not just by him. It's why I left my church last year as I could sense something was going on (and I am no where near the leadership, I just know the signs, the pastor giving little messages to specific people with his sermons that don't really fit otherwise. I have no idea who but I know stuff like that when I see it), and low an behold 6 months later I hear there is a mass exodus. Not sure why but I can bet.

Anyway your marriage is a mess and you both did it to each other which is sad. You need to deal with it head on! Both of you have done some cruel stuff to each other. Yes yours was technically on a break but your wife never recovered. Did you address that? Now your wife has gotten you back but is still stuck in la la land. She is covering for her partner in crime. Why are you letting that continue. This is YOUR wife! The worse thing in all of this is you are charged with being the leader in your marriage. So lead. Get the guys name, get you both into marriage consoling. Read the books both of you together every night, listen on tape whatever. Don't yell at her tell her how much she hurt you. Repent to her for your half of the crap, and accept nothing less then her repenting as well. That means guys name, seeing and acknowledging the grossness of her affair. Deep shame. You both get how much hurt you caused the other. Then after that you start again from scratch. That is what you should be leading you both to. If she can't do it you have you have your answer. Don't just stay in this messed up situation. 

Also if you are having a problem with her making more money then you, which I totally get then get some training strive to make more money. Your salary doesn't have to be stagnant. So you are a warehouse man, become the manager, then port that into some other manager job. You have musical talent, try to make money off it. Whatever it is. Pray and trust to God to help you, and then make it your mission to learn how to make money. Plenty of people make great money without being collage educated. You know the parable of the talents right? I don't know you but I feel like your post tells me you are the guy who buried them in the sand. This post is like that, sounds like your handling of this **** show in your marriage has been like that. Though I could be wrong, you haven't been very forthcoming.

Look I am being harsh (I always am I guess) but I don't like being manipulated, and I feel like your post kind of did that. I hate finding out the full truth on page 13. If I didn't smell out the fact that you were not being forthcoming we would still just be talking about your wife. That's not right, not if you want help. Do you do this in your relationship with your wife? Are you saying what you really think and feel? If not that is not leading. Leading is starting with, look I ****ed up, and then after you get your house in order you wait to see if she does. I bet if you do the things I say, I mean really attack what has become of your marriage and lead, your wife will follow suit. I bet she won't give a damn what you make either. She will probably be thrilled. If she doesn't then you have your answer. Then it should be, "look this is not enough. I am not going to be second in my own marriage with my own wife."

I'm sorry, I get it I am a **** on here, but come on man what are we doing here? Don't you want to fix all this?


----------



## Quality

NobodySpecial said:


> Furthermore, the idea of YOU in ministry is just awful.


The idea of Paul in Ministry was pretty outrageous too.

He calls who He calls. 

I actually prefer my pastors to be imperfect human beings.


*Just read the mod warning and I hope this post is OK. I'm not arguing. Just a counterpoint supporting the notion that the OP doesn't have to be and isn't expected to be perfect to be in the ministry.


----------



## michzz

sokillme said:


> Look man, if you handled all this crap both of you have put in your marriage the same way you handled you post on here no wonder nothing has been fixed. Sorry but I have to call you out now. You should have lead with all the info, yet you kept it hidden. Why? Do you really want help or just to have your opinion reinforced?
> 
> <<snip>>
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, I get it I am a **** on here, but come on man what are we doing here? Don't you want to fix all this?


I agree 100% with what you wrote. Just snipped it short to not clog up the flow.

A lot of posters bury what they really want to talk about or they bury it to justify crap.

If someone wants real advice out of this board, they owe us honesty.

Good call!


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## Primrose

Pepe, are you going to demand access to your joint cell account? Or are you going to sweep this under the rug, too? The fact that she has told you she wont let you look because she doesn't want you to find out about the OM sounds a lot like an accidental confession of continued communication. Like I said in my last post, if she has not spoken with him in two years, there should be nothing to find on your account. Yet, she refuses to let you in it...


----------



## Adelais

Diana7 said:


> Firstly God only forgives those who come to Him and ask for forgiveness and are repentant.
> Secondly if someone thinks they can do what they like and then expect forgiveness so its ok, they have got the completely wrong idea of what it is to be a Christian.


"Well then, should we keep on sinning so that God can show us more and more of his wonderful grace? By no means!"
Romans 6:1 New Living Translation

Anyone who is sinning on purpose thinking that they are automatically forgiven, or they will be forgiven later when they ask, is fooling him/herself and not filled with the Holy Spirit. God's spirit causes us to hate to sin, even when we can't seem to stop ourselves from doing it (as in an addiction of some type.)

People who accuse Christians of that don't know the Bible, and "Christians" who do that are not really "Christians."


----------



## Adelais

SadSamIAm said:


> He said, "After the separation I met someone". I take that to mean that he did cheat after they got back together.


"I think he means after the separation began, I met someone."
@Pepe1970 Did you date women when you were *not* separated and when your wife thought the two of you were exclusive?


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## Adelais

Diana7 said:


> If they were married it was still cheating. If you are a Christian its still wrong to have sex outside marriage.


I agree. What I was trying to get at is to find out if he did something (cheat) that hurt his wife before she began cheating. While they were separated they were both carrying on sinfully (dating while separated, yet still married) but they got back together. It seems they had both agreed to that (even though it was sinful) and had moved on....except for when his wife was hospitalized. Maybe she has a double standard???


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## ABHale

Pepe1970 said:


> No cheater takes responsibility for their cheating. They always blame the other spouse for what they did even if it could be true.
> In her case she blame me for not being Loving enough, for being mean, for being distant, for being sexless, for not giving her enough attention, for not this, for not that. Take your pick and make new ones too if you like.
> I did the same thing when I cheated when we were separated. I blamed her for being boring, for not give me my space, for being too clingy and other things I came up with that help me justify my cheating. Which they're all were true (her excuses or mine) but at the end nothing force you to cheat on your spouse. It always your own decision to betray your marriage, your Parenthood (if you have kids), your home, your church and everything else that is part of your life and you care for.
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


You said she was seeing other guys while separated. She was cheating as well 15 years ago. It doesn’t matter how far she did or didn’t go. You both cheated on each other back then. 

Did you finally take responsibility for your side of the cheating 15 years ago, or did you tell your wife to just get over it?

Did she ever say she was sorry for dating during the separation?

I believe in forgiveness when one is ready and can truly say it from the heart. That doesn’t mean you stay with someone that cheated on you for THREE years and shows no remorse for doing so. 

Before you ever work in a church again, you need to fix your marriage. From what you have related it’s a ticking time bomb. The two of you haven’t fix a thing. You have rug swept it hoping the problems would just go away. 

You honestly don’t have time to help a Church. Your marriage and family need to be fixed before you ever help a Church again.


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## ABHale

???????

Is working in the Church an escape from the marriage?


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## [email protected]

AB, he's not listening. His opposition to everyone's advice is set in stone. We all could come back a year from now and his talk would be the same.
I think that, in some odd-ball way, Pepe is into vanity. It's like, "Look at me everyone. I'm in ministry." He's not going to give up complaining nor will
he consider all the advice given him. His marriage is dead, it's just not buried yet.


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## Diana7

TRy said:


> Do you not see the contradiction in your statement that “I cheated when we were separated”? It was not cheating if you are separated and both seeing others. You are looking to rug sweep by falsely sharing blame.


Maybe he like many would see it as cheating because he was still married?


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## Diana7

Quality said:


> The idea of Paul in Ministry was pretty outrageous too.
> 
> He calls who He calls.
> 
> I actually prefer my pastors to be imperfect human beings.
> 
> 
> *Just read the mod warning and I hope this post is OK. I'm not arguing. Just a counterpoint supporting the notion that the OP doesn't have to be and isn't expected to be perfect to be in the ministry.


In reply, I agree, of course none of us are perfect, but a 3 year affair is something that definitely needs sorting out away from any sort of ministry, especially as she was counselling other people, maybe some of them with marriage issues.
Full repentance is needed as a very first step to forgiveness and reconciliation. The next step is full honestly and openness about what happened and with who. 

The difference with Paul was that he was fully aware of his past sins and he also had a long period of reflection and change after his conversion before his ministry started.


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## Satya

Have you learned OM's identity yet? 

I wouldn't bother looking for a new church when the real issue should be why she is still protecting her AP by not confessing his name.

But you seem to be in your own world about things. I wish you luck.


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## Chaparral

Your wife isn’t responding like you are because she is still hiding things from you. She is still hiding all of the truth from you. That means she hasn’t really confessed her sins to you. In her heart she knows she can’t be forgiven yet because you don’t know what you are forgiving. 

You can demand the truth or you can try living a lie with a liar. I have never seen that work for anyone on this site and. Have been here many years. 

Praying for you and her to have the strength to save your marriage.


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## toucheturtle

I found out living the life of a believer that God can only bless truth.i began to receive gut feeling about my ex affairs early cause we attended services with our family ever sunday and wanted to be more faithful to church.it showed my ex true colors on who she was and didn't really love me as a husband.church was not her cup of tea.


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## TRy

Diana7 said:


> Maybe he like many would see it as cheating because he was still married?


I Understand that you believe that dating while separated to be wrong, but cheating requires deception, and there was no deception if they were separated, rarely communicating at the time, and both openly seeing others. Just like seeing others while in an open marriage may not be called cheating even if you think it to be wrong, you cannot call mutually seeing others while separated cheating. I am not saying that it is a good thing to do, it is just not cheating.


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## Rubix Cubed

TRy said:


> I Understand that you believe that dating while separated to be wrong, but cheating requires deception, and there was no deception if they were separated, rarely communicating at the time, and both openly seeing others. Just like seeing others while in an open marriage may not be called cheating even if you think it to be wrong, you cannot call mutually seeing others while separated cheating. I am not saying that it is a good thing to do, it is just not cheating.


 It's adultery even if it may not be cheating. 
All depends on how someone defines cheating, I suppose.


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## Diana7

TRy said:


> I Understand that you believe that dating while separated to be wrong, but cheating requires deception, and there was no deception if they were separated, rarely communicating at the time, and both openly seeing others. Just like seeing others while in an open marriage may not be called cheating even if you think it to be wrong, you cannot call mutually seeing others while separated cheating. I am not saying that it is a good thing to do, it is just not cheating.


well I doubt they had agreed that each could date and there was no divorce going through either. 

I did meet my husband when his wife was having an affair and divorcing him, but we didn't get serious till after the divorce was complete and there was no sex/adultery.


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## TRy

Rubix Cubed said:


> It's adultery even if it may not be cheating.
> All depends on how someone defines cheating, I suppose.


 The Bible considers all sex outside of marriage to be wrong. The issue here is was it cheating, because the cheating wife has the OP buying into using it as a balance to offset her 3 year affair. Blame shifting at its best.


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## TRy

Diana7 said:


> well I doubt they had agreed that each could date and there was no divorce going through either.


 If they both were seeing others while agreeing to live apart, then that is agreement enough not to call it cheating.


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## Pepe1970

TRy said:


> If that is what you did, then you did not cheat. You separated, were not in regular contact with each other, and were both seeing other people. There was no longer an understanding of being exclusive between the two of you. No exclusive understanding means no cheating took place. You did what you are supposed to do, by openly ending the relationship prior to seeing others. Cheaters do what your wife did. They lie to their spouse and see others behind their spouse’s back.
> 
> You have been mind f****d by a lying, blame-shifting, cheat into false believing that there is a moral equivalency between her long term affair behind your back, with your dating when you separated and where single. You may have been the one to end the relationship with her, but that is not cheating.


The way she sees it is that we were separated, but still married no matter what. She accused me of breaking the marriage covennant. That gave her free pass to look like that hero and restore out marriage after she got pregnant and we've been together since then. I mean, we've been together living like roommates, as she put it.

Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


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## Chaparral

Are you saying that she thinks she did nothing wrong because you were just living together? I thought you were man and wife and raising a family. That doesn’t sound like she has repented or asked for forgiveness. Sounds like she just wants you to get over it.


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## bandit.45

Pepe1970 said:


> The way she sees it is that we were separated, but still married no matter what. She accused me of breaking the marriage covennant. That gave her free pass to look like that hero and restore out marriage *after she got pregnant *and we've been together since then. I mean, we've been together living like roommates, as she put it.
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


By you? Or some other clueless schmo?


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## bandit.45

TRy said:


> If they both were seeing others while agreeing to live apart, then that is agreement enough not to call it cheating.


No legal separation or divorce petition had been filed. I don't see anywhere in his comments where it was their intent to end the marriage. 

This was nothing more than two bored people wanting to take a break from each other to fool around with others, and then maybe get back together if they weren't able to make it work with someone else. 

:bsflag:


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## Quality

Pepe1970 said:


> The way she sees it is that we were separated, but still married no matter what. She accused me of breaking the marriage covennant. That gave her free pass to look like that hero and restore out marriage after she got pregnant and we've been together since then. I mean, we've been together living like roommates, as she put it.
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


WHEN did she actually express that this way of seeing things?


Typically, a wayward wife doesn't just decide one day to undertake an affair, let alone a three-year adulterous relationship. These boundaries get crossed little by little and then justified and rationalized little by little. She was likely devastated by your adulterous relationship while separated years ago; however, it wasn't an excuse, rationalization or justification for her own more recent adulterous behavior UNTIL she was in the process of actually doing it and thereafter. 

In other words, BEFORE she even met the OM and caught the feels for him, she wasn't saying she had a free pass and because you two were just roommates she could "date" whoever she wanted on the side. There just rationalizations in hindsight to help alleviate her GUILT and SHAME for sinning against herself, God {and you}. 

Wanted to add in here somewhere. I think she said OM was single but I doubt that. 
MORE OFTEN THAN NOT - wayward wives don't have affairs like men where they just have sex on the side while simultaneously loving and wishing to keep their family intact. Your wife was probably "in love" with the OM and wanting to divorce you and be with OM. Since you don't know who OM is, it's likely a secret today because he's probably married and wouldn't give up his family for your wife. The OM's wife also doesn't know because she'd have told you back then had she discovered it. I would first recommend you trying to snoop out the answer by spying on your wife. Maybe a voice activated recorder in her car or something because it's the easiest way to get the answer without having to make her reveal it or give her promises or assurances you really won't be able to keep. If that fails, then you've got to act like you just need to know and promise not to say to the guy with the knowledge that she's NOT going to tell you unless she's confident you'll keep the secret and protect her OM from exposure. However, once you know - you'll then discover you actually have a scriptural duty to tell the OM's wife. You MIGHT think this all isn't necessary but as long as your wife maintains her allegiances to OM over you AND OM's wife doesn't know about the affair - they will be check in with one another behind everyone's back and continue their affair from time to time when the goings get rough {and they always get rough sometimes}. You will also have difficulties getting or leading your wife to and through repentance with that level of secrecy between the two of you as a barrier to intimacy. It's NOT hypocritical for you to take leadership here.​

The problem I see is you didn't deal with it last time and don't seem to want to deal with it this time. You commit adultery - she lets it go and you dont' talk about it ever and years later, her hurt and devastation turn into anger, resentment and passive aggression and she looks elsewhere to have her needs met. Now you think that the solution to her infidelity is to afford her the same grace she gave you for yours and just sweep it under the rug because "you reaped what you sowed" and you FEEL you'd be hypocritical to be upset, hurt or in any way admonish her. That isn't the solution. It didn't work last time and it won't work this time either. The solution isn't to bury your secrets and shame and hide your sins from each other and the world. The solution is to seek help in Christian community and professional Christian counseling. To share your struggles and testimony with others. To OVERCOME your resentments, hurts, broken-heartedness and provide HOPE to others similarly struggling {they are EVERYWHERE - to live is to struggle}. 

You are not alone. I had a big long post to you on Friday about a post you made much earlier where you said "of course you didn't tell the pastor about the specifics of you and your wife's struggles with infidelity" and I was challenging you to correct this scripturally wrong way of looking at this issue. I can understand NOT wanting to tell the Pastor but keeping it a secret is not the "of course" alternative. The question really is are you keeping the secret for a good reason? 

Are you fearful and ashamed your wife would retaliate and share with the pastor your prior adultery?
Are you fearful the pastor won't like you or your wife if you told him?
Are you ashamed?


Here's a decent scriptural discussion of "confidentiality" - 
WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY ABOUT CONFIDENTIALITY? 



I'd encourage you and your wife to seek out and pray for repentance together. Then seek out and work a marital recovery program {if you want to do one online that's free - try marriagebuilders.com and read through all the free articles and information}. THEN - once your house in order, get into the marriage ministry TOGETHER and share the testimony of who you were then and what Jesus has done for you and your wife today so as to provide hope and inspiration to others. My wife and I now lead a very large marriage ministry team. We share our testimony weekly - sometimes in large gatherings but; more typically, one on one with struggling couples over many cups of coffee at starbucks or Panera.


----------



## Pepe1970

Quality said:


> WHEN did she actually express that this way of seeing things?
> 
> 
> Typically, a wayward wife doesn't just decide one day to undertake an affair, let alone a three-year adulterous relationship. These boundaries get crossed little by little and then justified and rationalized little by little. She was likely devastated by your adulterous relationship while separated years ago; however, it wasn't an excuse, rationalization or justification for her own more recent adulterous behavior UNTIL she was in the process of actually doing it and thereafter.
> 
> In other words, BEFORE she even met the OM and caught the feels for him, she wasn't saying she had a free pass and because you two were just roommates she could "date" whoever she wanted on the side. There just rationalizations in hindsight to help alleviate her GUILT and SHAME for sinning against herself, God {and you}.
> 
> Wanted to add in here somewhere. I think she said OM was single but I doubt that.
> MORE OFTEN THAN NOT - wayward wives don't have affairs like men where they just have sex on the side while simultaneously loving and wishing to keep their family intact. Your wife was probably "in love" with the OM and wanting to divorce you and be with OM. Since you don't know who OM is, it's likely a secret today because he's probably married and wouldn't give up his family for your wife. The OM's wife also doesn't know because she'd have told you back then had she discovered it. I would first recommend you trying to snoop out the answer by spying on your wife. Maybe a voice activated recorder in her car or something because it's the easiest way to get the answer without having to make her reveal it or give her promises or assurances you really won't be able to keep. If that fails, then you've got to act like you just need to know and promise not to say to the guy with the knowledge that she's NOT going to tell you unless she's confident you'll keep the secret and protect her OM from exposure. However, once you know - you'll then discover you actually have a scriptural duty to tell the OM's wife. You MIGHT think this all isn't necessary but as long as your wife maintains her allegiances to OM over you AND OM's wife doesn't know about the affair - they will be check in with one another behind everyone's back and continue their affair from time to time when the goings get rough {and they always get rough sometimes}. You will also have difficulties getting or leading your wife to and through repentance with that level of secrecy between the two of you as a barrier to intimacy. It's NOT hypocritical for you to take leadership here.​
> 
> The problem I see is you didn't deal with it last time and don't seem to want to deal with it this time. You commit adultery - she lets it go and you dont' talk about it ever and years later, her hurt and devastation turn into anger, resentment and passive aggression and she looks elsewhere to have her needs met. Now you think that the solution to her infidelity is to afford her the same grace she gave you for yours and just sweep it under the rug because "you reaped what you sowed" and you FEEL you'd be hypocritical to be upset, hurt or in any way admonish her. That isn't the solution. It didn't work last time and it won't work this time either. The solution isn't to bury your secrets and shame and hide your sins from each other and the world. The solution is to seek help in Christian community and professional Christian counseling. To share your struggles and testimony with others. To OVERCOME your resentments, hurts, broken-heartedness and provide HOPE to others similarly struggling {they are EVERYWHERE - to live is to struggle}.
> 
> You are not alone. I had a big long post to you on Friday about a post you made much earlier where you said "of course you didn't tell the pastor about the specifics of you and your wife's struggles with infidelity" and I was challenging you to correct this scripturally wrong way of looking at this issue. I can understand NOT wanting to tell the Pastor but keeping it a secret is not the "of course" alternative. The question really is are you keeping the secret for a good reason?
> 
> Are you fearful and ashamed your wife would retaliate and share with the pastor your prior adultery?
> Are you fearful the pastor won't like you or your wife if you told him?
> Are you ashamed?
> 
> 
> Here's a decent scriptural discussion of "confidentiality" -
> WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY ABOUT CONFIDENTIALITY?
> 
> 
> 
> I'd encourage you and your wife to seek out and pray for repentance together. Then seek out and work a marital recovery program {if you want to do one online that's free - try marriagebuilders.com and read through all the free articles and information}. THEN - once your house in order, get into the marriage ministry TOGETHER and share the testimony of who you were then and what Jesus has done for you and your wife today so as to provide hope and inspiration to others. My wife and I now lead a very large marriage ministry team. We share our testimony weekly - sometimes in large gatherings but; more typically, one on one with struggling couples over many cups of coffee at starbucks or Panera.


Thank you Quality.
Really appreciate your comments

Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


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## Rubix Cubed

Quality said:


> Since you don't know who OM is, it's likely a secret today because he's probably married and wouldn't give up his family for your wife.​


 I'd wager the OM is MUCH closer to Pepe1970 's circle than he expects. That is why she won't reveal who he is. Could be someone in his church, best friend, co-worker, etc. ... The list of possibilities is endless. Odds are good he is married as well, so double whammy on the hoped for confession.
Obviously, she wants to keep OM open as an option to protect him so.


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## Pepe1970

Pepe1970 said:


> Thank you Quality.
> Really appreciate your comments
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


And to answer the very first question.
After she told me of her affairs, we were a little bit argumentative with the whole thing in order for me to optain information about her affairs.
Like i said before she was answering many of my questions until she asked me to stop because it was starting to bring memories when she was with him and she didn't need that, of course neither did I.
But when we talk about it (like last night) she mentioned again the fact that I broke the covennant first by having affairs years ago and that she had the right to leave or stay with me. Also said she didn't think didn't have to tell me anything about the affair because I lost that right by cheating on her first.
And for the last questions the answer is that I haven't told the pastor about our situation because I don't know him well enough to be open with him about my marriage, he's practically a stranger. Last night I mentioned my wife the chance of have a meeting with him and she agreed.

Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


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## Affaircare

@Pepe1970, 

I would like to second what @Quality has said. I know other people posting here on TAM can seem a little harsh at times, but it's the gold like that post that make hanging in there worth it. 

I can also testify personally that what @Quality said is true. Rather than wade into the "is it adultery to have a relationship during separation" debate, I'm going to look at it like this: you are just as human as she is. At minimum some portion of you can understand how a person is tempted into it by crossing the line a thousand little times. You can understand how a person could be lonely or feeling ignored and suddenly there's someone paying some attention and it's like water on parched ground. You have compassion...at minimum. 

But having compassion is not good grounds for continuing to bury what happened or continuing to avoid dealing with it. You are a smart man. You love God and want to serve Him. Well, the best service you could provide right now is to be the leader of your family even when it is uncomfortable. To fix your marriage, you and your wife are going to need to face some uncomfortable truths and address them and become NEW!

One place to start that I highly recommend is becoming honest. Just be honest to the pastor (to start). Don't hold back what you did...and don't hold back what she did...be fully honest. Don't keep trying to hide behind these masks of the image you want to project: "the perfect couple" or "the godly couple that doesn't struggle." You would not BELIEVE the power that God can unleash when we share our burdens with our brothers and sisters in Christ. First, they know that they are not alone in their own struggles! Second, they are encouraged that if God can work in us, maybe He can work in them! And third, they are there to encourage you two and strengthen you two and hold you two accountable! If you keep this hidden, and keep trying to keep up appearances, look at how much godly work you are stopping. 

Being fully honest is never, ever wrong. Now, sometimes the timing needs consideration, and sometimes the actual words chosen need to be kind and sensitive, but the truth is the truth--tell it. Let the light shine on what is being covered up and once it is all revealed, then all the striving to keep up and pretend is gone. Find out who the OM is. Let the OM's wife know just facts, but let her know so she has all the HONEST information she needs to make whatever decision she makes. At least it's honest!! And when your wife says "How could you?" or accuses you of airing dirty laundry....no. You are telling the truth, factually and honestly. If she had been a faithful, loving wife you could have told the truth factually and honestly and she would be proud. Instead, when she ACTS in an unfaithful, unloving way, and you tell the truth factually and honestly, SHE wants to hide how she actually ACTED. It is her ACTIONS that bring her grief, not you speaking the truth. 

Okay? Listen to @Quality. VERY, very good post.


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## Pepe1970

Affaircare said:


> @Pepe1970,
> 
> I would like to second what @Quality has said. I know other people posting here on TAM can seem a little harsh at times, but it's the gold like that post that make hanging in there worth it.
> 
> I can also testify personally that what @Quality said is true. Rather than wade into the "is it adultery to have a relationship during separation" debate, I'm going to look at it like this: you are just as human as she is. At minimum some portion of you can understand how a person is tempted into it by crossing the line a thousand little times. You can understand how a person could be lonely or feeling ignored and suddenly there's someone paying some attention and it's like water on parched ground. You have compassion...at minimum.
> 
> But having compassion is not good grounds for continuing to bury what happened or continuing to avoid dealing with it. You are a smart man. You love God and want to serve Him. Well, the best service you could provide right now is to be the leader of your family even when it is uncomfortable. To fix your marriage, you and your wife are going to need to face some uncomfortable truths and address them and become NEW!
> 
> One place to start that I highly recommend is becoming honest. Just be honest to the pastor (to start). Don't hold back what you did...and don't hold back what she did...be fully honest. Don't keep trying to hide behind these masks of the image you want to project: "the perfect couple" or "the godly couple that doesn't struggle." You would not BELIEVE the power that God can unleash when we share our burdens with our brothers and sisters in Christ. First, they know that they are not alone in their own struggles! Second, they are encouraged that if God can work in us, maybe He can work in them! And third, they are there to encourage you two and strengthen you two and hold you two accountable! If you keep this hidden, and keep trying to keep up appearances, look at how much godly work you are stopping.
> 
> Being fully honest is never, ever wrong. Now, sometimes the timing needs consideration, and sometimes the actual words chosen need to be kind and sensitive, but the truth is the truth--tell it. Let the light shine on what is being covered up and once it is all revealed, then all the striving to keep up and pretend is gone. Find out who the OM is. Let the OM's wife know just facts, but let her know so she has all the HONEST information she needs to make whatever decision she makes. At least it's honest!! And when your wife says "How could you?" or accuses you of airing dirty laundry....no. You are telling the truth, factually and honestly. If she had been a faithful, loving wife you could have told the truth factually and honestly and she would be proud. Instead, when she ACTS in an unfaithful, unloving way, and you tell the truth factually and honestly, SHE wants to hide how she actually ACTED. It is her ACTIONS that bring her grief, not you speaking the truth.
> 
> Okay? Listen to @Quality. VERY, very good post.


Thank you AffairCare, thank you

Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


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## bandit.45

Pepe1970 said:


> And to answer the very first question.
> After she told me of her affairs, we were a little bit argumentative with the whole thing in order for me to optain information about her affairs.
> Like i said before she was answering many of my questions until she asked me to stop because it was starting to bring memories when she was with him and she didn't need that, of course neither did I.
> But when we talk about it (like last night) she mentioned again the fact that I broke the covennant first by having affairs years ago and that she had the right to leave or stay with me. Also said she didn't think didn't have to tell me anything about the affair because I lost that right by cheating on her first.
> And for the last questions the answer is that I haven't told the pastor about our situation because I don't know him well enough to be open with him about my marriage, he's practically a stranger. Last night I mentioned my wife the chance of have a meeting with him and she agreed.
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


If she is protecting her OM over the marriage, what does that tell you?


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## Affaircare

Pepe1970 said:


> And to answer the very first question.
> After she told me of her affairs, we were a little bit argumentative with the whole thing in order for me to optain information about her affairs.


So arguing sets up a "Her vs. Me" style in your relationship, and instead you want it to be "Us vs. The Affair" or "Us vs. Infidelity." However, it says a lot that she is not forthcoming with information. Speaking as a formerly disloyal wife, I can attest that the questions can sometimes feel like the Spanish Inquisition; however, I think it's reasonable for me to endure some discomfort to ease my husband's mind. Also, I think it's entirely reasonable to set up a rule such as "We will spend one hour each night, no more. The betrayed spouse can ask any two questions they want, and the disloyal spouse agrees to answer those two questions, no matter what they may be, fully...thoroughly...and honestly. After the hour, it is done for the night." 



> Like i said before she was answering many of my questions until she asked me to stop because it was starting to bring memories when she was with him and she didn't need that, of course neither did I.


Hmmm...



> But when we talk about it (like last night) she mentioned again the fact that I broke the covennant first by having affairs years ago and that she had the right to leave or stay with me.


She broke the covenant with God by sinning first. Did He forgive her and now her sin is as far as the East is from the West? Or does He keep bringing it up and using that as justification for Him to treat her poorly. She DESERVES to be out of the presence of the Most High God, and yet He forgave her and now sees her as worthy of His grace and mercy. Is He going to keep threatening her with maybe throwing her to hell if He can't be mean? Come on--this doesn't even hold water. 

If you two reconciled before, she forgave you and it is DONE never to be brought up again. If she keeps bringing it up, you two never reconciled and need to fix that first. Either way, this is not an acceptable or rational argument. I'm not buying this, and neither should you.



> Also said she didn't think didn't have to tell me anything about the affair because I lost that right by cheating on her first.


Please see above. She lost the right to be a child of God by being sinful. Does He hold that over her head? She sinned first. She broke the relationship, not God...and yet HE made the way to repair the relationship. Sounds to me like she's got this a little backward. 

This is not an acceptable or rational argument. Using this concept, if you EVER did ANYTHING wrong, she is completely justified in acting equally as poorly and lying to you about it and covering it up. No. This will not do. Even if you were a jerk and a cheat (which I'm not saying you were), we Christians are commanded to live our lives in such a way that we would lead our spouses to Christ by our actions--not to imitate the bad actions! Nope--not drinking this koolaide.



> And for the last questions the answer is that I haven't told the pastor about our situation because I don't know him well enough to be open with him about my marriage, he's practically a stranger. Last night I mentioned my wife the chance of have a meeting with him and she agreed.


Good.


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## Evinrude58

OP's wife is TOTALLY unremorseful about her affair. THAT is quite clear. She is using classic blameshifting maneuvers as everyone has pointed out. She was dating during the separation, so was he. To compare that to her cheating during 3 years of a marriage is ludicrous.

OP has no desire whatsoever to deal with getting to the bottom of this. He doesn't want a divorce on his record and be disallowed from holding a position of status in his future church positions. That's clearly a role he enjoys and takes pride in.
He also likely doesn't want to lose his wife by bringing up the infidelity and putting pressure on her that he probably doesn't think she will tolerate without divorcing him. Totally understandable. Will his plan work? Will he have a happy marriage? Doubtful.

As to her working in the church:

NO

IS she even out of infidelity at this point in time? NO, because she is unremorseful, the other man remains a mystery, and OP has been told that he is NOT to keep asking questions or make any demands as to the other man's identity.
I think there is an excellent chance that the affair is possibly ongoing, or that OP's wife still harbors feelings for him and doesn't want his identity known so that the opportunity for fanning the flames is still there. 

OP. Your marriage is doomed at this point, if you don't make some changes. Whether she ever works in leadership at the church should be the least of your worries.

JMO


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## TRy

Pepe1970 said:


> The way she sees it is that we were separated, but still married no matter what. She accused me of breaking the marriage covennant.


 You were separated, both seeing others, and thus by those standards both "breaking the marriage covennant". Her false denials that although she dated other men she did not have intercourse with them is not believable in light of her years of years of lying and cheating behind your back. The only difference between you and her during that separation is that you did not lie about what you did; which is still true today as she is the only proven liar in the marriage. You stated in a post on 11/20/2017 that "In my case my wife cheated with 2 men in a period of 7 years or so". Is it her opinion as a Christian that when you ended the separation, and got back together, that for the rest of the marriage she was free to have multiple affairs behind your back? She seems to apply very high Christian standards only to you, while applying none to herself; this is right out of the cheaters script type of stuff.


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## TRy

Pepe1970 said:


> But when we talk about it (like last night) she mentioned again the fact that I broke the covennant first by having affairs years ago and that she had the right to leave or stay with me.
> Also said she didn't think didn't have to tell me anything about the affair because I lost that right by cheating on her first.


Even if you ignore that you were separated and both seeing others, her statement that "she had the right to leave or stay" is true, meaning that she had the right to stay in the marriage or to end it. By choosing to stay in the marriage, she was agreeing to abide by the marriage covenant with God, which of course means that she cannot have affairs. That is what staying in a Christian marriage means.

Her words indicate that she is one of the most dishonest and unremorseful cheaters I have read about on this site, and that is saying a lot. You have no marriage, and have not had one in years.


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## Mr Blunt

> Quote of Pepe
> In her case she blame me for not being Loving enough, for being mean, for being distant, for being sexless, for not giving her enough attention, for not this, for not that.
> I blamed her for being boring, for not give me my space, for being too clingy and other things I came up with that help me justify my cheating.


I am reprinting the above to reveal the seeds of the very hurtful situations you both did that helped to weaken you both. The results of your initial selfishness and failure to apply your Christian teachings resulted in you both doing very serious damage to the relationship. I know that you all know this but it may be helpful to other couples that may want to ignore these relationship killers.






> Quote of Pepe
> After the separation I met someone, nothing planned, meaningless relationship. My wife found out easily which it was even more devastating for her to the point of being hospitalized.
> While the separation she also was seeing other guys but never had sex (or so she said)


Both of your previous failures and selfishness added great damage by you committing adultery and her giving her desires to other men and not you; yet you both were still married to each other.

The only way you both are going to improve your relationship is for you both to truly repent before God and then prove your repentance by your Christian ACTIONS for the rest of your life. You cannot do that for her and she cannot do that for you. You and your wife’s total commitment of diligently seeking Him and using your faith is the only hope of you both improving the marriage. Hebrews 11:6. You and your wife separately pleasing God first is a must. Then you can utilize a lot of the advice that you have received on this thread.

You and you alone are responsible for your relationship with God as is your wife also. Romans 14:12. You and God first then you and your wife can work on a better relationship. Proverbs 3:5-6


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## Diana7

bandit.45 said:


> If she is protecting her OM over the marriage, what does that tell you?


Agreed, and if it is a man at the church(which I think is very likely) then the pastor needs to know as well so that it can be dealt with properly. Also the OM's wife needs to know as well, if he has one. 

Knowing who the OM was would be an important condition for me in your shoes. The story that's its a non Christian divorced man from another town living alone doesn't wash at all. If she is telling he truth them she would have no reason not to tell you.


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## Walloped

Just wanted to say I’m sorry you’re going through this.


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