# Recent Sep, First Meeting Soon, Looking For Advice?



## Saffy (Mar 19, 2013)

After a 2-3 month run of (terrible) MC and lots of "stuff" we separated 2 weeks ago. I've completely moved out, and finances are cut. No kids involved.

She left for the weekend when I moved out (she couldn't handle me leaving, even though she's the one who wanted the Sep) and then we talked the Monday after to do some financial housekeeping etc. I set some ground rules at that time (partly at suggestion of MC) - no seeing other people for 6 months, meet in a public place every 3 weeks. She agreed to this. We also agreed that divorce isn't right yet (which surprised me she didn't want to right away).

She texted me yesterday and wanted to meet this weekend, but I said "I thought we were doing this every 3 weeks, it's only been 2" so she backtracked and rescheduled to next week. She said she wanted to meet earlier because she thought I was leaving for work and she had financial questions but I had just answered them all.

I'm doing my best to stick to the 180 - I just started a new job (the one "we" always wanted for me so I could be home....), going to the gym way more than I should, trying to reconnect with friends and just rebuild my life for me. Contact is strictly business-related, and unless absolutely necessary I let her initiate it. 

Anyways, I'm looking for some advice for the first meeting after separation. I'm nervous as hell about it. I still love her, and deep down I want her to jump on me and beg me to come back but I know that won't happen this time (and unlikely it'll ever happen). Am I suppose to act distant and separated, basically in business mode? Or am I supposed to go in being as charming and happy as possible? She's still a mess, from what I've heard, and what I want is to show her that I'm doing fine without her, but not that I've completely moved on and could care less if she was alive. But I don't want her to think we can be friends - we WERE best friends as husband/wife but it's either all or nothing. I wanted her to be attracted to me, even if she doesn't act on it or even realize it until much later. She has some very complicated issues to work through, and has JUST started counselling, so I really know there's zero chance for me until she deals with at least some of them, but I'd still like to plant that seed in her mind because I think she's forgotten why we fell in love at all from being buried under all the problems that've come up in the last couple years, and I think the only chance we'll ever have is if I subtly remind her every chance I get.

I'm also really regretting the 6 months no dating rule. I originally planned to give this 6 months (which isn't that long) to see if she came around at all, at least to the point where we could try and date. Now, the last 2 weeks have felt like 2 years and... honestly I don't want to move on yet, but I really want to go out and be single again and hook up with random women, even if it destroys me emotionally. I'm sure it's just me in rebound mode, and my job is high-stress and lonely at times.... I hoped my close friends would talk me out of it... but they've basically hinted that IF we reconcile it won't be in 6 months, more like 2-3 years... and there's no way I should have to spend that long alone.

Unfortunately, over the 10 years we were together our sex life was excellent and I haven't gone more than 4 or 5 weeks without it that whole time, right up until the separation.

Any thoughts or experiences from anyone, particularly someone who's been through this (successfully or not)?


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## Thumper (Mar 23, 2013)

imho, if you really want to give this your best effort, stick to the 180, stick to the no dating. You don't want to have regrets later that you didn't do EVERYTHING you were supposed to be doing. The 6 months is kinda a loose number at this point anyways, you might decide after a 2nd, or 3rd meeting that its not going anywhere and its over at that point. Might even make great strides, and a R is coming. I think your thinking too much at this point.

Stay the course, stay strong, work on what you can control: yourself. The hardest part of this trial is A. be honest with yourself, faults, needs, expectations. B. Not seeing the progress you'd like from your spouse, and get back off track. C. Doubting every little gesture/remark/action and over thinking it. 

Believe 50% of what you see, and 75% of what you hear. Listening will be very important for the next couple of months. To yourself and to what she's saying. Be willing to address your faults, and don't focus on what she's doing or done. The 180 plan : The Healing Heart: The 180 is always the best bet. Cause it shows your willing to move on, but at the same time your not letting her dictate to you. Make sure you find some hobbies/friends/outlets for the tougher times your bound to be going thru. Don't stew and wait for things to happen, make them happen for yourself. Don't beg/plead/cry to her as it only makes you look weaker.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Good advice Thumper.

Listening is key.

And you need o strong, calm and dispassionate right now. 

Use this time to work on you. To fix any issues you have.

And I do not think there is anything wrong letting your wife know you love her. But you have to do it in a way that is strong.

Can you tell us what are the issues your wife is facing and why you guys are separated?

HM64


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## mainsqueeze (Apr 10, 2013)

Don't go sleeping around and hooking up. That will just complicate things and pretty much kiss any chance of R goodbye. I know it's tempting to fill that void with anything you can, but you'll be better off if you take your time. You have to be on being alone even if its years before you can be with someone in a good relationship. I know, because I'm having to deal with this right now as well.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls (Jul 23, 2012)

If you love your wife..then how can you think about sleeping with other women? That comment confused me.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

If you have any thought of R forget about random hooking up.


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## Saffy (Mar 19, 2013)

Thanks for the advice everyone.

Happyman64: I'll try to keep it readable.

The issues she's facing:
-I've worked away from home basically our entire relationship. The last 2 years my job has kept me away more than it ever has in the past. I was burning out fast, just trying to make it through a tough project, and stopped calling every night because I was a zombie and frustrated and didn't want to dump that on her.

-Her mom has nearly died multiple times over the last 2 years. Cancer, operations, doesn't take care of herself and keeps making things worse. Recently had multiple surgeries to save her legs due to blood clots - BARELY made it through. Is now recovering. My wife is the main focal point for the family so her mom has relied on her heavily the last 2 years. We live an hour away.

-We took in 2 of her godchildren because their parents were neglecting them and their marriage was one explosion after another, so they could get caught up in school and have some hope of having a normal life one day. One is graduating this year, the other is better but still has a lot of problems (high school age, grade 10).

-Wife has taken on more responsibility in her job, as she is very good at it and loves it.

-House has been falling apart due to previous owners neglect/illegal renovations. With me being gone, she has had to live with missing drywall and exposed electrical wiring. I'm an construction inspection manager so I am an excellent tradesman and trust basically no one so I was doing the work myself, as time allowed (which it didn't).

-Wife was raped/molested for most of her younger life, by siblings/step-siblings, other family members, mom's boyfriends, etc. Recently her nephew was molested and in turn began molesting his younger sister. This came to light, threw the family into chaos, and it brought back her past. She reached out to me for support, and I didn't know what to do and made things worse. We went on a trip together a couple of days before the separation happened - we had sex but apparently during it she had some sort of flashback to being raped, but went through with it anyways because she wanted me to feel loved. I'm not sure if this has happened any other times.

-Our marriage counsellor wasn't very good, and was completely unequipped for something this complicated, and made things worse. Basically took 
my side, and kept pressuring her.

-Due to her very rough past, she has always automatically ran away from a relationship when things get tough. That's what her family does. She tried to not do that this time, but things didn't get better right away and she just couldn't keep on going. She overanalyzes everything until she finds a way to use it to backup her actions. She says she doesn't believe in forgiveness, and doesn't think she could ever let me in again because of that. She also has a "torch the past and rise from the ashes" mentality for coping with tough situations, which is what I feel she's doing right now (for eg her post on facebook today was some quote saying good things end so better things can start).

-Feels betrayed and unsupported by me, also disconnected, mainly tied back to the abuse situation during our trip. She also said she feels like a failure for not being able to save the marriage and she didn't want to hurt me, but she's decided she doesn't love me anymore.

-We were trying to have children. She was diagnosed with "unexplained infertility" and was on hormone therapy and we were attempting in-uterine fertilization. Her family and many of her friends are trainwrecks, who breed non-stop and abandon and abuse their children, so this made her feel like she was being punished by the universe somehow by not being able to have kids when all these horrible people kept having them without trying or wanting them. She refused to talk to anyone about it, except me. I saw that it was killing her and I tried to let her know I didn't care if we had kids all I cared was that she was happy and I would love her no matter what. I was angry at these selfish people who kept relying on her to clean up their messes with their kids and suggested we should just stop because I didn't want to see her die a little more inside every month she didn't get pregnant. She didn't see it that way.

-In the last 2-3 years I've had a rough patch with my career. I knew it was temporary and begged her to just hold on, and the rough patch would be over soon. Now it is, but she's gone so it feels like all the sacrifice and hard work was for nothing. She feels like I chose money and power over her. Also, due to the extremely high stress and very aggressive drive required to make it through my job, and the long hours and complete burnout I was experiencing, I was not a happy person when I DID come home. She feels like all we did was fight, I didn't want to spend time with her (which was actually I DID want to spend time with her, but I didn't want anyone else around because I wanted her focused on me and us). I was angry, critical, hated everything. I didn't realize it but she was trying to connect with me. EG She would say I like this band and I would say theyre terrible how could anyone like this ****. She would want to go somewhere with friends, and bring me along, and I would say I don't want to do that its a waste of time. 

I quit my job and we were going to MC, and all I wanted was to fix things. I was fixing the house, we were trying to go on dates and spend time with friends... but we were both hurt and found it hard to support each other through this when we needed support ourselves. I misinterpreted her distance as her not caring about me anymore or not really trying to fix the marriage, which caused me to get a little cold and bitter, and I started feeling I was doing all the work so I sorta stopped trying, and all this made it worse.

I'm a physical touch person, but I had no idea she was having flashbacks or whatnot regarding her abuse, and she didn't tell me until 2 days before we separated. Without any touch, I felt completely unloved.

She's a Words Of Affirmation person, and I thought I was trying to show her love but I didn't truly understand what she needed until it was too late.


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## Saffy (Mar 19, 2013)

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> If you love your wife..then how can you think about sleeping with other women? That comment confused me.


I'm sure this is me justifying (and I'm sure if I DID sleep with someone else I would probably hate myself for it), but:

My wife and I are/were very sexual. One of the reasons why our friends tried to bring us together in the first place. It was pretty important to both of us.

On top of that, due to her childhood (sexual abuse + her mom was an escort for years) she has very little emotional attachment to sex. I am the exact opposite - sex is 100% attachment to me (physical touch love language person). Near the end, one of the warning sides I got that things were getting bad fast was her asking if we should have an open marriage. I said hell no, even though she had plenty of reasons. We DID agree that at some point we might try a third person, but that didn't happen.

Also, because I was... less experienced than her when we got together, she has said she always felt like she "stole" my chance to experience a lot of things. It's not like I'd never had sex with other people before we met, or that I'd never had an emotionless 100% physical encounter with one of those people either.

Anyways, I guess I'm just justifying whatever reason I feel random sex is acceptable. I doubt I could even go through with it.

All in all, I'm just lonely, horny, and feeling unloved and unfulfilled and for some reason that's where my mind fixated.

I agree with everyone that, as frustrating as it is, it'd be a bad idea.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Sex to heal or fix things is a very bad idea.

And you do realize that your wife has to have some horrible issues running through her head the way her childhood panned out.

Communication is key Saffy.

And sex with your wife is not communication. It is a way to strengthen a bond in most marriages. You feel that way but I am not sure if your wife sees it that way or even thinks about sex the way most married couples do.

Survivors of sexual abuse and unpleasant childhood are not wired the way most people are and it requires deep therapy to uncover the issues and fix them.

Have you met your wife yet post separation?

If not and you plan to this is what you should do.

You should listen to her. Really listen to her.

See what she really wants.

If she feels the marriage is unrecoverable then I would let her go.

I know you do not want to but she is an adult. And if she is not willing to get professional help just for herself and make her issues a priority then you have no chance of a successful relationship.

She is a hurt, damaged woman.
She has put other family members before her own needs as well as your marriage.

You cannot succeed in having a fulfilling relationship with her when you are not a priority.

I know you do not want to hear it but that is what I hear.

So Listen to her. Take all the time you need to make any decision.

Then act.

No begging or crying to her because that just makes you look weak. And for your wife to survive all her abuses and get as far as she has in life is anything but weak.

Messed up? Yes.

Weak? No.

Keep posting and let us know how you are doing.

HM64


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

You cannot go wrong with happy and charming. The businesslike stuff is for cheaters and divorces. Show her (DO NOT TELL HER)that you are ok without her. I know it's a facade but a necessary one. However, do not initiate any kind of relationship talk. This is on her. This was her doing and it has to be her idea.

Good Luck.


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## Saffy (Mar 19, 2013)

There was a "bond strengthening" in the sexual relationship... until the very end (say, last 2 months). Then it all sorta changed.

I met with her at the house before I moved out. We talked some about the separation, finances, the house, and also about some things we wanted to know from each other.. I guess for "closure".

Then when she was going to leave she started crying. She said she wanted to say goodbye, so I came over and I said "Ok, well... goodbye [her name]" and we were both crying and holding onto each other. I told her I'd always love her and please don't forget me. 

Then I said "It's never too late, I promise" and that kinda ruined it.

We talked 3 days later, on the phone. She called me, I let her steer the conversation, although any time she asked if we should talk about feelings or whatnot I said "I think it's too early for that." The only thing I did talk about was how I felt she was right, that since we were both going through some things we were just feeding negatively off each other and weren't able to support the other and some time apart might help us grow and get back on our feet, and without that we couldn't be there for someone else. Trying to show some understanding and support for her feelings. When the phonecall kinda stalled, I started the goodbye process (which she had complained before, when I was away, she always had to say goodbye first). She started crying but I kept it together (plus I was full of antidepressants) and said "Ok talk to you soon. Take care of yourself." and she barely managed to mumble "bye" before hanging up.

I'll have a better chance next week, but so far when we've talked and I've listened and tried to decipher how she feels... I think she still feels something, but won't admit it because it hurts too much, so instead she's going to keep pushing to move on with her life EVEN IF she has feelings for me, or feels we screwed up and should get back together. Our mutual friend (who is best friend to us both) has agreed with me on this. And that's frustrating. But I don't trust my or my friend's analysis because we both want us to be back together and maybe it's just wishful thinking clouding our better judgement.

So the big thing for me is this: I want to do everything in my power to either get us back together or to place a seed that can lie dormant and maybe sprout a few years from now; to feel like *I* did my best. But... I don't want to feel like I'm trapped in a hopeless endeavour forever, because it keeps dragging me backwards. I was good most of this week, until she texted me, then my mom wanted to talk about her, then she posted the asinine "motivational quote" on her Facebook about better things coming from the death of great things.... When I listen to her, I hear feelings there but I hear her denying them and then saying she will continue to deny them because it's easier than trying to forgive me and trying to work through the pain and guilt and anger to give love another chance. I don't want to feel trapped by her problems that I'm helpless to do anything about anymore.

I've heard she's finally going to start counselling soon, or has recently started.

The only thing that IS for certain: I won't beg and plead and cry for her anymore. I did that enough, and I know how it made things worse when I did it. It'll never happen again.


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## Saffy (Mar 19, 2013)

Was just reading some other posts and a couple of things dawned on me I left out (always seem to leave out).

Add this to her "issues":
-About 6-8 months into us dating, I made a profile on an online dating forum. I made the profile, forgot about it, and never checked on it or looked at anyone else's profile. She found out about it though, and it hurt her pretty badly (obviously). The reason I did it? I was 21, dumb as a stump, and was completely confused because we were dating, it was great and I thought we were getting serious (I loved her at that point) but she wouldn't admit to anyone she had a boyfriend, wouldn't call me her boyfriend, and would come close to saying "I love you" then back off. 9 years later, I know that she was cautious because of her past and having been hurt by other relationships by jumping in too fast or just going with the flow even when she knew it was wrong.

-Shortly into the relationship (I believe just after we started having sex, so say 4 or 5 months of dating), she was staying in my apartment while I was out of town for the weekend and found a comment I made to a friend via IM calling her "fugly". It was an old comment. I was 20 when I first met her, was coming out of a weird relationship and I was attracted to my now-wife but something was holding me back. At the time, she had been doing drugs steady for a couple of years and had quit and was clean and normal, but her personal appearance was... less than attractive, at times. Plus I was trying to find some reason why I couldn't commit to her, and over time I finally realized it was b/c I was still hanging onto my ex and once I let her go I couldn't figure out why I had ever held back.

These 2 things have shadowed our relationship. Any time there was a LARGE fight (which was rare) or when she was feeling particularly unloved or untrusting of me, she brought them up. She brought them up in the "separation" meeting.


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## Saffy (Mar 19, 2013)

We had our second 3-week meeting today. I definitely didn't do as good as the first time... I teared up a bit a couple of times, and I did start to bring up emotional relationship stuff but mostly backed out before saying much. This last 2 weeks has been rough for me.

It seems like she's having very similar reactions: overthinks small things into huge things that we know the other isn't capable of doing (cheating, slandering the other) but somehow convince ourselves its happening until we meet and then realize it was all in our head. She said she misses me sometimes, but sometimes doesn't (which, I think is actually normal). She said it kinda... apologetically, like "I miss you but not enough to want you back."

Both times I sensed... a connection, I guess, between us. It could just be familiarity... when we hug at the end she holds on pretty tight and for more than a second, like we used to....

I get the feeling the root of her decision is something we talked about we first told me she wasn't happy. She feels like she chose her friends over me... and didn't feel bad about it, and that's what really made her realize something was wrong. And she's trying to figure out why she did that, and if she could ever go back to making me the priority in her life, and if she trusts me to change such that she wouldn't regret it (ie don't put her friends down, make time for her and just be a part of her life including spending time with those of her friends that drive me nuts without *****ing and being a jerk).

I'm trying hard to stay on track with the 180, each time I go off track I take a second, think about what my real goals are, and try to refocus. We both started separate IC. This week was probably rougher because I'm slowly going off the antidepressants I went on at the separation due to sideeffects.

it just worries me that when she talks about her near-future plans, there's no maybes or possiblys or ifs involving me at all. I know it's only 6 weeks so it's quite early, and I know shes still a mess (moreso than I am)... I just find it hard that she seems to make it clear that she has no hope for us.

Is it possible the 3 week meetings are a bad thing? Is it acceptable to write her a letter at this stage, or should I wait until much later? I just feel like if I don't do something to remind her of good times, or how good she felt when things were better, and show her some of my personal progress, then there's no chance she'll want me back. I've done my best to not pressure her in any way, no begging or pleading, but making it clear without saying it that I miss her and love her and still want her. I see her world basically crumbling around her and she's struggling hard to make it alone, but she wants absolutely no help from me (which she's made clear)... but it kills me to see her struggle alone, especially because I love her and marriage is supposed to be about sharing burdens..., and I want to send her a reminder that I love her no matter what, just so she has it if she needs it at some point, but I dunno if thatd be more guilt and pressure for her rather than real help.


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## catcalls (Oct 31, 2012)

she has so many issues to deal with and a really pernicious family and upbringing. that is all to sort out before you even begin to sort out your marriage.

I am going to be cruel. I think you should bail out. you cannot rescue her. She has to do that yourself. You should not feel guilty either. You are lucky you don't have any kids with her. Imagine kids being in contact with her toxic family.

be kind to yourself. I would divorce her immediately and move on. She is a damaged individual and she needs to sort herself out. you are relatively unscathed and dont owe her anything beyond what you have already tried.

I think you need to give yourself the permission to let go of her. the fact that you are frustrated with a 6 month moratorium on dating shows that you are ready to move on. but it is probably some sense of duty and love that is holding you back. You are not responsible for her issues, she is. so just move on


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

All I know is what I've learned from my experience. I, too, have been married to a women who had been sexually abused...from within the family..and that has created a lot of issues. They are great survivors, but lousy at normal relationships...unless they go through healing...but it is easier said than done...cos if wife feels unsafe, feels forced or pressured to work on things she isn't ready to face...she actually gets triggered to act out (sex addiction through porn, online sexual role-play...and a little hazy in details, but I'm sure some degree of PAs).
Rule #1 to the uninitiated reader: Do not get married if there are major issues of addiction, personality disorders, poverty mindset, past trauma that has not been dealt with!! Everyone has baggage, but these are relationship killers and you are setting yourself up for a dysfunctional relationship. I helped support my wife to survive...was not a relationship of neither reciprocity or enrichment. Some days she could turn it on...and be there, but had an all too easy shut-off mode, looking only after #1, no conscience...and blamed me for her unhappiness. Tiring.
While were separated...it was all to easy for me to focus on her...to make sure I was doing things to attract her back...and I would ride the rollercoaster of her push/pull insanity. One day, she is crying and is sorry...the next she is cold and detached....but she was also acting out during the time. But when I realized I wasn't REALLY working on my stuff...just polishing things up to lure her back...I knew that I was not growing as a man. You have to take the risk...set boundaries...and step outside of the insanity...her emotional rollercoaster. It is healthier for you...and for her as she needs to be able to adapt, adjust, and manage her own thoughts and feelings...not you. That is really a passive form of manipulation when we can't leave our spouse long enough because we are afraid they will go down the wrong path. Where is the time for you? You need to work on you...that is what will restore her hope. When she sees a changed man...that will really catch her interest. I say just keep it to business...expecially if you know that you'll get caught up in the usual dysfunction. Read books on codependency...such as Love is a Choice.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls (Jul 23, 2012)

NO letter.. I did that and made it worse.


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## Saffy (Mar 19, 2013)

Thanks for the replies everyone.

catcalls I've come to the conclusion, I guess, that I'm going to let things run their 6 month course. If anything, it lines up with my current schedule of work/life and I honestly feel I'm not ready to date yet. I still have work to do on myself yet before I'm ready to bring someone else into my life, and since I'm not actively looking I'll let things play out and just try my best to focus on me.

Formerself I actually dated a girl who HADN'T dealt with her issues before I met my wife, and I know exactly what you're talking about. The difference here is that she DID deal with her issues, but when you've been abused that badly it never really goes away. Every so often you need an emotional "tune up" and she knew she needed one, but kept going anyways until things blew up, coupled with everything all happening at once (mother continually in serious condition in hospital for 3 years, stress of raising other ppl's kids, infertility, me working away, work and family stress).

One thing I've noticed, and was verified by our meeting, is that she is spending her time with those of her friends that have serious relationship dysfunction: messily divorced, serial cheater, separation/reconciliation cycler, sexually abused and unable to be happy in any relationship so does lots of drugs, etc. Her "mature" friends, the ones who've fought through the hard times and made it in their marriages and have given her the advice that she's making a huge mistake she's going to regret later on, the ones that were there for us (and we for them) through our relationship have all been sidelined. I'm not saying these friends are telling her to pick up a new guy, but they're the ones who will let her hide from reality and are more likely to serve their own best interests rather than hers.

Don't get me wrong: I don't want her back no matter what. If things aren't going to get better, for either of us, why would I want to be together and unhappy. What I was going to ask her was what her intentions are. Mine are obviously spend time apart to work on ourselves, but stay connected so we aren't complete strangers when we're both ready to love another person again. But I could tell she's still all over the place, so I backed out because I knew she doesn't have the answers I need. Frankly, what I see is her scrambling and trying to escape, rather than sitting down and truly doing some introspection and being honest with herself. I guess all I can really hope for is her psychologist is good enough to set her on the right path of self-improvement and healing.

And while I'm worried about her going down the "wrong path", it's because I vowed to be strong for her when she was weak, and to help her through anything because we're stronger together than apart. In 10 years together, we've worked through things that've come along before, but I've never seen her like this. It hurts like hell to see her reach out to these other people who can't give her what she needs, so she keeps searching, and I can't do anything but watch.

I guess one positive way to look at it is what our friend said to me. She's gone from saying she doesn't love me anymore, to admitting she misses me.


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## Saffy (Mar 19, 2013)

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> NO letter.. I did that and made it worse.


Just curious how it made it worse. Did she feel pressured by your feelings, or guilty?

I wrote her 2 fairly long letters detailing my thoughts and feelings just before the separation, and she kept them so maybe Id just be rehashing what shes already seen.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

Well it seems like you have a good grasp on it all...just sucks that we have a bruised heart to drag along.

My wife, having burned most of her relationships...doesn't really have many influences. But her mom, sexually abused...divorced twice...years and years of therapy...treats it like a "You go girl!" event...cos that's all the women in their family do...get married, get divorced, and then live alone.

But you are right...even if it is properly addressed...it doesn't really go away. My wife was diagnosed with PTSD and she will always be hypervigilant and struggle to look at things through the view of survival. So I dunno, maybe it is best for her to live alone like her mom and just have close, small cadre of frienships...cos it seems like that seems to work for her mom to stay balanced in life.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls (Jul 23, 2012)

Mine kept a few too... but later on she thought I was trying to make her feel guilty and other things..

Don't do it now.. everything you write will and can be used against you in court


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

My wife had abuse from family, rape from outside the family, was beaten by her first husband, all sorts of things like that. Horrible horrible stuff. She went through a LOT of therapy after her divorce, and although that helped her regain some self esteem, she still shows issues of that upon occasion (including PTSD effects). I know that was part of her "rationale" for cheating on me, in fact. It fits in nicely. 

There's nothing anyone can do about their past. I've always said we are the sum of our choices. It seems you are making measured, intelligent choices (also like coming to TAM). I am sorry for your heart that hurts, and for hers as well. It's one of the things in life where things hit us hard and the repercussions echo throughout the rest of our lives. Some deal with it better than others. My wife's PTSD still rears its ugly head now and then. She had drug addictions as well, many many years ago. She beat that, and she's such a fine soul that she got ME (i get to brag 'cause I think she's the bEST). So it can be overcome to a great degree. Your mileage may vary..... I hope she gets it straightened out. 

Do you think there are any other reasons why this has come out at this point in her life?


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## Saffy (Mar 19, 2013)

I think there might be a tiny bit of mid-life crisis mixed in to it all, but it's mainly the reasons I first listed. The main "trigger" is her nephew being abused, seeing a new generation exposed to the hell she lived and feeling helpless to break the cycle in her family, coupled with the fact she's been unable to get pregnant while surrounded by abandoned children and their terrible parents. Plus she was already feeling some disconnection from me because of choices I made regarding my career... stuff we could've come back from had it not been made worse by feeling unsupported when all this bad stuff hit at once.

Sometimes I think she really needs to go out and date someone else, or a couple of people, to truly appreciate what she left. And at her age, I would've thought she'd have learned to listen to her closest friends by now... any point in her life she's thrown the collective advice of all her friends away she's lived to regret. They're all telling her to be strong and work through our problems, and that we can work through HER problems together... and yet here I am.

I also wonder how much of this is her trying to "save" me from her... pushing me away so she doesn't bring me down with her, or something to that effect. I've let her down before, when she needed me the most, and I don't want to take the chance this is some sort of life test, to see if I am really as dedicated as I say.


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## Saffy (Mar 19, 2013)

Just got back from my weekly IC session. Counsellor says I should consider talking to wife, telling her how I feel and explaining how I understand where I went wrong and what she needs... and request some clarification from her on what she wants out of this separation (is she just done and moving on, does she consider reconciliation an option, etc).

I dunno if it's a good idea or not....


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## hank_rea (Mar 13, 2013)

Saffy said:


> Just got back from my weekly IC session. Counsellor says I should consider talking to wife, telling her how I feel and explaining how I understand where I went wrong and what she needs....


I tried this and it didn't work. Maybe it was my approach (I let her know that I understood my part in the failure of our marriage, then proceeded to try and pressure her into taking me back *facepalm*). I also discovered this AFTER my (then) wife had already made up her mind that she was divorcing me, so maybe it wouldn't have mattered how I had approached it. If your wife is the type that would try to use anything you say against you, I'd choose my words VERY carefully if you do go down that path.


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## Saffy (Mar 19, 2013)

I talked to her the other night, asking for direction because I couldn't take it any more. Long story short, she hasn't made any progress either way. My psych. has said I need to make a decision that feels right to truly move forward. Basically, I've made that decision, it's time to get divorced.

I already had a 3 week meeting scheduled for next Sunday, so I'll tell her there. We still love each other (even though she won't admit she loves me) but she's chosen anything and everything over me for a long time now and I can't stay with someone who doesn't think I'm important.

Hurts like hell but... is what it is I guess.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

Man, I'm sorry to hear that...sometimes the best decision is the one we are most at peace about.

And yeah that's the best I can usually sum up my proceeding divorce: it is what it is.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Saffy said:


> I talked to her the other night, asking for direction because I couldn't take it any more. Long story short, she hasn't made any progress either way. My psych. has said I need to make a decision that feels right to truly move forward. Basically, I've made that decision, it's time to get divorced.
> 
> I already had a 3 week meeting scheduled for next Sunday, so I'll tell her there. *We still love each other (even though she won't admit she loves me) but she's chosen anything and everything over me for a long time now and I can't stay with someone who doesn't think I'm important.*
> 
> Hurts like hell but... is what it is I guess.


When you tell her about the divorce and if she asks why refer to the part I highlighted in bold.

I am very sad to see you go the D route.

But you have to do what is best or you.

HM


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