# Questiion for the WS - Could you forgive?



## bugmenot (Jul 4, 2012)

I recently had a discussion with a friend, and they believed that when someone is forgiven for a serious indiscretion (not just sexual but anything) - many times they are more easily able ot forgive others. Basically - one is more able to forgive if they have been forgiven. 

If your BS had a similar indiscretion to your own somewhere down the line, would you offer them the same forgiveness and chance at reconciliation that they gave you? 

If you are the BS have you had this discussion with your WS?

I'm curious to read your responses.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

bugmenot said:


> I recently had a discussion with a friend, and they believed that when someone is forgiven for a serious indiscretion (not just sexual but anything) - many times they are more easily able ot forgive others. Basically - one is more able to forgive if they have been forgiven.


OK, am not a WS, but not sure it works that way.


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

bugmenot said:


> I recently had a discussion with a friend, and they believed that when someone is forgiven for a serious indiscretion (not just sexual but anything) - many times they are more easily able ot forgive others. Basically - one is more able to forgive if they have been forgiven.
> 
> If your BS had a similar indiscretion to your own somewhere down the line, would you offer them the same forgiveness and chance at reconciliation that they gave you?
> 
> ...


I hope I would. If it was similar to my EA, then that would mean I was not doing my job as a wife and I'd want a chance to make it right.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

I intentionally could do something bad, but then it would make me bad. 
Betraying a spouse is intentional. Being bad is sometimes unintentional. 
That said, other than intentional "badness," I would hope she would give me the same amount of heart required for forgiveness that I have given her, over the years.


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## bugmenot (Jul 4, 2012)

Thanks for the responses. Annie, do you think an EA is easier to forgive than a PA, especially a long term PA?


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

bugmenot said:


> Thanks for the responses. Annie, do you think an EA is easier to forgive than a PA, especially a long term PA?


That's a tough question. 

I think a man can possibly forgive and EA easier than a PA (in general) but visa versa for a woman.


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

bugmenot said:


> Thanks for the responses. Annie, do you think an EA is easier to forgive than a PA, especially a long term PA?


I don't know if an EA is easier to forgive. What if the WS having the EA continues to lie to their BS for YEARS, hiding communication? And the WS in a PA comes clean, does all the work, is 100% transparent? I think it comes down to the behavior after D-Day that is the tipping point. 

Now a long term EA or PA followed by lies, lies and more lies, who could forgive THAT?


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## bugmenot (Jul 4, 2012)

Good questions Annie - a LTA would seem the hardest to forgive. I think in either case he BS is changed forever even if they choose to reconcile.


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## bugmenot (Jul 4, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> That's a tough question.
> 
> I think a man can possibly forgive and EA easier than a PA (in general) but visa versa for a woman.


BP I agree 100 %. Given my personal experience with the situation its the sex - especially if it is an affair that lasts awhile is the toughest thing to get past if it can be done at all.


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## gumtree (Jun 1, 2013)

OP its a good question. I'm speaking as a WW now going through the aftermath of confessing a PA/ONS. H and I talked about this on the phone last night, when he asked what would I do if the shoe was on the other foot. I can only try to understand what he is going through, but I told him that I THINK I would try and forgive him, but not until I had run away, cried myself sick, come back, yelled and broken china and cursed him out for doing that, then tried to understand why he felt the need to cheat. But that is just me, and he is doing this his way. I guess you don't know until you are the BS. It would be a hard road. It will be a hard road if we can get through this.


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## bugmenot (Jul 4, 2012)

gumtree said:


> OP its a good question. I'm speaking as a WW now going through the aftermath of confessing a PA/ONS. H and I talked about this on the phone last night, when he asked what would I do if the shoe was on the other foot. I can only try to understand what he is going through, but I told him that I THINK I would try and forgive him, but not until I had run away, cried myself sick, come back, yelled and broken china and cursed him out for doing that, then tried to understand why he felt the need to cheat. But that is just me, and he is doing this his way. I guess you don't know until you are the BS. It would be a hard road. It will be a hard road if we can get through this.


Do you think having been the WS you could find it easier to forgive if your H does find it his heart to forgive you?


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## gumtree (Jun 1, 2013)

bugmenot, I honestly don't know. I guess I would feel compelled to try and forgive, as I do believe in marriage somehow, despite my failing to honour my own. But also I think it would depend on his motivation - was it revenge for my A? Or an attempt to sabotage our reconciliation? If it happened some years later, yes I would try very hard to forgive, knowing what he had forgiven me, and as a believer,that God has forgiven sins, so I must too. But a part of me would be wondering if we were that broken that we both keep hurting eachother, could we really save the marriage? Hope that helps...


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## bugmenot (Jul 4, 2012)

Thanks - it does. If it was a revenge affair could you get past that? It seems likek revenge affairs are common enough - and understandable given the situation.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

bugmenot said:


> Thanks - it does. If it was a revenge affair could you get past that? It seems likek revenge affairs are common enough - and understandable given the situation.


If you are thinking about have a revenge affair... don't. Don't compromise your principles to be like a WS. It's not a revenge affair. It's cheating on your spouse. Would you seriously inflict the pain you went to on someone you love intentionally. That is just so awful.


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## bugmenot (Jul 4, 2012)

MovingAhead said:


> If you are thinking about have a revenge affair... don't. Don't compromise your principles to be like a WS. It's not a revenge affair. It's cheating on your spouse. Would you seriously inflict the pain you went to on someone you love intentionally. That is just so awful.


No that's not the situation at all. I was responding to Gumtree's answer.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

MovingAhead said:


> If you are thinking about have a revenge affair... don't. Don't compromise your principles to be like a WS. It's not a revenge affair. It's cheating on your spouse. Would you seriously inflict the pain you went to on someone you love intentionally. That is just so awful.


I don't think a revenge affair or a BS cheating on a WS would be quite as hurtful as the original betrayal. I have a feeling it would only validate the WS's denial. I think it would make any R impossible. YMMV

I don't think the WS can feel the same way as the BS. If they thought they would feel that poorly, they may not have strayed in the first place.(just my guess)

I don't think it is about the actions of the BS that lead to the betrayal. It's the boundaries of the WS that lead to the betrayal. The actions of the BS prior to the betrayal only validate the need for a change in the relationship, whether it be counseling, separation or divorce.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

Captain Double Standard reporting for duty! I am a wayward spouse and I could not forgive my wife if she cheated. If she were to give herself to another man I couldn't be intimate with her ever again. She would be forever tainted in my mind. 

We have discussed this and she honestly understands my reasons for the double standard. She never really cared about the physical aspect of my indiscretions. Never even asked what I did. She was more concerned about emotional attachments, or if I did romantic things for others. Once she felt confident I wasn't in love with someone else our path to reconciliation was cleared.

If it were the other way around I couldn't get over it because you can't unsleep with someone. I could forgiver her. I just couldn't stay married to her.


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## bugmenot (Jul 4, 2012)

ReformedHubby said:


> Captain Double Standard reporting for duty! I am a wayward spouse and I could not forgive my wife if she cheated. If she were to give herself to another man I couldn't be intimate with her ever again. She would be forever tainted in my mind.
> 
> We have discussed this and she honestly understands my reasons for the double standard. She never really cared about the physical aspect of my indiscretions. Never even asked what I did. She was more concerned about emotional attachments, or if I did romantic things for others. Once she felt confident I wasn't in love with someone else our path to reconciliation was cleared.
> 
> If it were the other way around I couldn't get over it because you can't unsleep with someone. I could forgiver her. I just couldn't stay married to her.


If she is OK with it then that is all that matters. If I had a partner who expressed that I would have real trouble staying in the relationship. But I read an article that said men are in general less forgiving of their wives infidelities and it is the sex part that they can't get past. If you wife had an EA could you forgive her for that?


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

No, I could never forgive. I've seen other people forgive but they never are quite the same anymore and it just seems like all the effort for the unknown could be used more productively.

I have never been a big forgiver but after I was in an accident and thought I might die, I realized how I wanted to spend my life and it was being happy on my own terms. It really made me a stronger person.


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## bugmenot (Jul 4, 2012)

Rugs said:


> No, I could never forgive. I've seen other people forgive but they never are quite the same anymore and it just seems like all the effort for the unknown could be used more productively.
> 
> I have never been a big forgiver but after I was in an accident and thought I might die, I realized how I wanted to spend my life and it was being happy on my own terms. It really made me a stronger person.


I totally get that. I can't understand how people forgive a spouse who cheated for an extended period of time - but I'm not in their shoes and don't judge them as people. I just don't understand it and hope I never have to.


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## FourtyPlus (Dec 18, 2011)

I'm a fWS and yes I would. I know what it feels like to beg for forgiveness, I know what it feels to feel remorse and tremendous guilt. I have recommitted myself to my marriage and that does includes "for better or worse". I feel that I would have to do whatever possible to forgive because that's what my husband did for me.

The term "revenge affair" came up in previous posts - and to me, that's beyond forgivable. To go and start an online EA with another woman to get even with me, that's not making a mistake, that's spiteful. That's inflicting pain upon a family for the sole purpose of getting even - I have no tolerance for that, others might feel differently and that's fine.


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## bugmenot (Jul 4, 2012)

FourtyPlus said:


> I'm a fWS and yes I would. I know what it feels like to beg for forgiveness, I know what it feels to feel remorse and tremendous guilt. I have recommitted myself to my marriage and that does includes "for better or worse". I feel that I would have to do whatever possible to forgive because that's what my husband did for me.
> 
> The term "revenge affair" came up in previous posts - and to me, that's beyond forgivable. To go and start an online EA with another woman to get even with me, that's not making a mistake, that's spiteful. That's inflicting pain upon a family for the sole purpose of getting even - I have no tolerance for that, others might feel differently and that's fine.


Many feel the WS does not truly understand unless they feel the same pain. I must disagree on one point an affair is not a "mistake" but a "choice" one made with the full knowledge that it will hurt a spouse - it is also a form of emotional abuse. So I don't think an RA belongs in a different category. In a way I understand RA - I don't think it is the best path - but I understand why one would do it.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Pretty interesting article I found. Not sure how good the source is, though.

Effects of Infidelity on Men vs. Women Surprise Researchers | LiveScience

Another which may be the original source for the above article.

http://www.epjournal.net/wp-content/uploads/ep06667675.pdf


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

bugmenot said:


> If she is OK with it then that is all that matters. If I had a partner who expressed that I would have real trouble staying in the relationship. But I read an article that said men are in general less forgiving of their wives infidelities and it is the sex part that they can't get past. If you wife had an EA could you forgive her for that?


Good question....honestly even I really don't like my answer. I don't think I could forgive that either. That would basically mean that she loves someone else. If that's the case there certainly wouldn't be any room in her heart for me. 

My wife is clearly a much better person than I am. I am very grateful for her.


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## bugmenot (Jul 4, 2012)

ReformedHubby said:


> Good question....honestly even I really don't like my answer. I don't think I could forgive that either. That would basically mean that she loves someone else. If that's the case there certainly wouldn't be any room in her heart for me.
> 
> My wife is clearly a much better person than I am. I am very grateful for her.


At least you are honest in this regard - and if she knows this and stays in the marriage then that is her choice.


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## blackdiamonds (Jun 26, 2013)

If the shoe were on the other foot, yes. So long as he was truly remorseful and contrite.


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## ScrewedEverything (May 14, 2013)

Been there, done that. As a fWH, I found it much easier to forgive my wife's EA for a few reasons. (1) I understand the what/why/how and, more importantly, I understand the whole "unreality," of the affair from the WS's point of view. I don't know if that perspective makes it hurt any less but it certainly makes it easier to see through and move beyond the affair. (2) I know from bitter firsthand experience that no one is perfect, no one is immune. Contrary to the popular belief around here, it doesn't take a morally-bankrupt, depraved monster to become a WS. Otherwise good and sensible people are capable of making bad decisions and rationalizing hurtful actions given the right (or really, the wrong) set of circumstances. It happens every day in big and small ways. (And yes, I'll be the first to say that my own prior infidelity figures prominently in that mix of circumstances). (3) I have her example of forgiveness to follow and the "for better or worse" bar is now set very high. (4) I was in the passenger seat when we rirst arrived at that fork in the road where you can choose to either accept the bad thing that happened and use it as a lesson to grow a better, happier relationship from or you can use it as an anchor and be forever fixed in a bad spot. Now when I reached that fork as the driver, I already knew which way to turn.

My apologies for the overdose of metaphors.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

How are things at home ScrewedEverything?


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## ScrewedEverything (May 14, 2013)

Acabado said:


> How are things at home ScrewedEverything?


I'll post an update somewhere else but things are going relatively well - I think.


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## gumtree (Jun 1, 2013)

bugmenot said:


> Thanks - it does. If it was a revenge affair could you get past that? It seems likek revenge affairs are common enough - and understandable given the situation.


Yes bugmenot, I would forgive. 

In fact I'd be much more forgiving of a revenge affair because I have experienced the self-disgust that goes with being a WS, so for him to add that to his existing pain over my betrayal would be terrible for him, and add another hiccup to any attempts at reconciliation. So for his own sake, I'd hope he wouldn't. He actually told me he had a chance for a ONS and didn't because he didn't even want to. That faithfulness in his pain over my betrayal just about broke my heart all over again. I don't deserve him.


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

bugmenot said:


> If your BS had a similar indiscretion to your own somewhere down the line, would you offer them the same forgiveness and chance at reconciliation that they gave you?


Yes, I would.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Thank you for your responses. After that conversation with my friend about the nature of forgiveness it got me thinking about remorseful WS and are they more forgiving because of the forgiveness shown to them.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Thank you for your responses. After that conversation with my friend about the nature of forgiveness it got me thinking about remorseful WS and are they more forgiving because of the forgiveness shown to them.


new id? cant be, with 51 posts.

multiple id's then? why do you need that?


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

I cant wrap my head around being a ws and not forgiving the same you were forgiven for. It sounds pretty selfish.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

awake1 said:


> I cant wrap my head around being a ws and not forgiving the same you were forgiven for. It sounds pretty selfish.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This always gets me slammed but as a former wayward I feel obligated to answer. Of course its selfish. Wayward spouses are selfish people. On a scale of 1 - 10 not all of us are to the extreme, but in general people who stray are more self centered and impulsive than those who do not. 

I honestly don't believe that most waywards would forgive their spouse if the shoe was on the other foot.


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> This always gets me slammed but as a former wayward I feel obligated to answer. Of course its selfish. Wayward spouses are selfish people. On a scale of 1 - 10 not all of us are to the extreme, but in general people who stray are more self centered and impulsive than those who do not.
> 
> I honestly don't believe that most waywards would forgive their spouse if the shoe was on the other foot.


 it does make it sound like the betrayed is willing to do more to keep the relationship alive than the wayward spouse. (assuming they want to R) I can't help but feel like that one sided setup makes it sound like the betrayed deserves better. Now having a revenge affair for the sake of revenge is one thing. I'm talking say 10 years after a reconciliation, and under circumstances where most affairs flourish. (one is working too much and being distant for example.) 

Asking forgiveness for something you cannot forgive sounds unfair. 

I think there's differences though in the type of cheating, and who does it. I think women are more apt to forgive physical cheating and men the emotional.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

awake1 said:


> it does make it sound like the betrayed is willing to do more to keep the relationship alive than the wayward spouse. (assuming they want to R) I can't help but feel like that one sided setup makes it sound like the betrayed deserves better. Now having a revenge affair for the sake of revenge is one thing. I'm talking say 10 years after a reconciliation, and under circumstances where most affairs flourish. (one is working too much and being distant for example.)
> 
> Asking forgiveness for something you cannot forgive sounds unfair.
> 
> I think there's differences though in the type of cheating, and who does it. I think women are more apt to forgive physical cheating and men the emotional.


In cases where a WS can't forgive but the BS can - the WS has more power in the relationship - they are willing to walk away. They got it all - the BS at home and their lover when they wanted one. Why a BS would stay under those conditions - I do not know- we all have our reasons I guess.


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