# To answer a thread jack



## Personal

Evinrude58 said:


> I have women asking for sex all the time, and I’m no Super handsome dude. Bald, average looks in general. I disagree. Yes, women do want sex. You may not want sex, but lots of other women do. Lots.
> Both men and women want to find a person to love. Women don’t have a patent on desiring an emotional connection, I assure you.





DownByTheRiver said:


> Sure.


I don't understand the disbelief. It happens to plenty of men, so @Evinrude58's experience isn't an extraordinary occurance.



Diana7 said:


> Where do you come across all these women who want to have sex with you?


The where of such offers can be quite numerous, they can be at work, at parties, grocery stores, communal kitchens at campgrounds, beaches, pubs, clubs, concerts, public transport, friends places, even play dates arranged for ones kids and no doubt more places than my experience.




In Absentia said:


> I'm interested too!


Cheers.


----------



## In Absentia

Personal said:


> Cheers.


Cheers to you...  I can't relate to this "women asking for sex all the time", but then I don't really go out (even now that I could) and I have been married for centuries (I was 22). Sure, women have flirted with me (I have Southern European looks and lived in a Northern country... ) , but not really asking for sex since I was married.

BTW, lots of threads end up being thread-jacks because the OP disappears after not hearing what he/she wanted to hear...


----------



## Numb26

It's not that extraordinary, it has been my personal experience that women can be just as forward when it comes to sex as men can. I do not consider myself the best looking of men but have been pursued fairly aggressively.


----------



## Rob_1

As old as I am I have been insinuated many times and not just women my age or older but by much younger women. I've been told things like "I'm attracted to and prefer older men" I even once had a coworker told me that she loved me, and for cry out loud I never even ever insinuated anything to her other than coworker comradery. of course I always enjoy the flattery, but I have never, ever pay attention since I started dating my wife. It most be my charisma🤑

Women want sex almost as much as men do, BUT that's the thing, after they get their man and the ring has been on their finger for a while, SEX is: excuse me what's that?

Oh and by the way although I look younger than I am, I'm still an old man now. When I was young I was categorized as cute or somewhat handsome, but I never was a Sean Connery or Brad Pitt.


----------



## Diana7

Personal said:


> I don't understand the disbelief. It happens to plenty of men, so @Evinrude58's experience isn't an extraordinary occurance.
> 
> 
> The where of such offers can be quite numerous, they can be at work, at parties, grocery stores, communal kitchens at campgrounds, beaches, pubs, clubs, concerts, public transport, friends places, even play dates arranged for ones kids and no doubt more places than my experience.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers.


I would like him to answer really. Not talking about general flirting here, or a 'suggestive' glance, but women actually proposing sex with a man who is married. I mean coming up and specifically suggesting it. Also not talking about clubs etc, but general day to day places.
As I said, we know some very good looking men, this just isn't their experience. 
I think a lot of it is wishful thinking and fantasy.


----------



## oldshirt

Diana7 said:


> I would like him to answer really. Not talking about general flirting here, or a 'suggestive' glance, but women actually proposing sex with a man who is married. I mean coming up and specifically suggesting it. Also not talking about clubs etc, but general day to day places.
> As I said, we know some very good looking men, this just isn't their experience.
> I think a lot of it is wishful thinking and fantasy.


I guarantee you that some of the very good looking men you know have been approached. Some of them may have even taken the woman up on it. 

They just don’t tell you about it because they know you are not the kind of person that would approve of such things and they don’t want to get on your bad side.

We need to keep in mind that all things sexual take place in private behind closed doors. 

People may say that we live in a sexualized and sexually open society now - but we really don’t. 

There is a whole lotta hanky panky that goes on in the world that is never up for public discussion and that never is known by others.

Friends and family and people I work with and people I encounter during the course of a normal day would assume I had a few Saturday dates to the soda shop now and then, then met my wife, had our two kids and never had sex again. 

You may even think I was some geeky 40-year-old-virgin type if you just met me (I may even have an Asia poster somewhere LOL) 

May wife appears even more sweet and innocent than me. 

No one has a clue what has gone on behind closed doors and that is how sexuality works. 

Even in today’s world, 95% of sexual behaviors are covert and behind closed doors and never discussed publicly. 

You have friends, coworkers and fellow church members that are swingers, that are closed gay/bisexual, that are cheaters, that are cross dressers, that do sex work or obtain the services of sex workers etc etc etc etc etc. 

They just don’t tell you.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Diana7 said:


> I would like him to answer really. Not talking about general flirting here, or a 'suggestive' glance, but women actually proposing sex with a man who is married. I mean coming up and specifically suggesting it. Also not talking about clubs etc, but general day to day places.
> As I said, we know some very good looking men, this just isn't their experience.
> I think a lot of it is wishful thinking and fantasy.


It's not that uncommon. The smart married man politely and tactfully shrugs it off, and doesn't bring up it up with W. For what reason would he if he's in a happy M.

It happens to certain guys when young because they meet both younger women and mature ladies certain wants and when older, in men's peak financial success and influence years the mature women are even more interested.


----------



## Diana7

oldshirt said:


> I guarantee you that some of the very good looking men you know have been approached. Some of them may have even taken the woman up on it.
> 
> They just don’t tell you about it because they know you are not the kind of person that would approve of such things and they don’t want to get on your bad side.
> 
> We need to keep in mind that all things sexual take place in private behind closed doors.
> 
> People may say that we live in a sexualized and sexually open society now - but we really don’t.
> 
> There is a whole lotta hanky panky that goes on in the world that is never up for public discussion and that never is known by others.
> 
> Friends and family and people I work with and people I encounter during the course of a normal day would assume I had a few Saturday dates to the soda shop now and then, then met my wife, had our two kids and never had sex again.
> 
> You may even think I was some geeky 40-year-old-virgin type if you just met me (I may even have an Asia poster somewhere LOL)
> 
> May wife appears even more sweet and innocent than me.
> 
> No one has a clue what has gone on behind closed doors and that is how sexuality works.
> 
> Even in today’s world, 95% of sexual behaviors are covert and behind closed doors and never discussed publicly.
> 
> You have friends, coworkers and fellow church members that are swingers, that are closed gay/bisexual, that are cheaters, that are cross dressers, that do sex work or obtain the services of sex workers etc etc etc etc etc.
> 
> They just don’t tell you.


That's simply not true. These are close family members and close friends. People we know very well. My family also knows that after the things I have been through in my life I am practically unshockable. Many things have been shared over the years with family and close friends. 


You still haven't answered my question about where all these women are who have come up to you and asked for sex. You said it happens all the time. Where do you go where all these women ask for sex.


----------



## Diana7

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> It's not that uncommon. The smart married man politely and tactfully shrugs it off, and doesn't bring up it up with W. For what reason would he if he's in a happy M.
> 
> It happens to certain guys when young because they meet both younger women and mature ladies certain wants and when older, in men's peak financial success and influence years the mature women are even more interested.


I am sure it happens at times with very good looking men, or very rich men, but to imply that lots of women ask a random man for sex on a regular basis just doesn't wash.


----------



## LisaDiane

Diana7 said:


> That's simply not true. These are close family members and close friends. People we know very well. My family also knows that after the things I have been through in my life I am practically unshockable. Many things have been shared over the years with family and close friends.
> 
> 
> You still haven't answered my question about where all these women are who have come up to you and asked for sex. You said it happens all the time. Where do you go where all these women ask for sex.


They aren't worried about shocking you, they are worried about your harsh judgement of them, if they care about your opinion.

You remind me alot of my mother. No one who knew her in our family ever shared anything with her, even her sisters -- not because she would be shocked, but because she would condemn us and never understand, and it just wasn't worth the argument to share those kinds of things with her. 

We shared stories with her about gardening, house projects, cooking, and kids. We saved the sex stories for eachother, NEVER her. And I think she like it that way better as well - I think she liked living in her "bubble" of what SHE considered proper behavior, and she didn't want to know that other people felt differently than she did.


----------



## pastasauce79

I have a friend who is going through a difficult divorce. The poor guy went out one night and got approached by a very outgoing lady at a bar. 

He was shocked. He's no Leonardo DiCaprio. He wasn't sure if the lady meant what he thought she meant. He left the bar because it made him uncomfortable. 

Now he doesn't want to go out for fear another stranger may approach him wanting to have sex with him. 

I was laughing when he related the story, but he was not comfortable about it!


----------



## LisaDiane

pastasauce79 said:


> I have a friend who is going through a difficult divorce. The poor guy went out one night and got approached by a very outgoing lady at a bar.
> 
> He was shocked. He's no Leonardo DiCaprio. He wasn't sure if the lady meant what he thought she meant. He left the bar because it made him uncomfortable.
> 
> Now he doesn't want to go out for fear another stranger may approach him wanting to have sex with him.
> 
> I was laughing when he related the story, but he was not comfortable about it!


If he had taken her up on her offer, maybe his divorce wouldn't seem to be so difficult...!!! Lol!!


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Diana7 said:


> I am sure it happens at times with very good looking men, or very rich men, but to imply that lots of women ask a random man for sex on a regular basis just doesn't wash.


First, I guess, thank you...I suppose.

I'm not Ryan Reynolds or Matt Damon, or Aquaman nor Bill Gates or Jeff Bezos, but I guess I'm not at the bottom, either, because I'm sharing from personal experiences. 

It happens way more than you are thinking. It's just not a dinner time topic of conversation with W.


----------



## pastasauce79

LisaDiane said:


> If he had taken her up on her offer, maybe his divorce wouldn't seem to be so difficult...!!! Lol!!


I was happy when he said a lady started talking to him. I thought, "yes! That's great for his self esteem!" But now I think it was too much. It left him traumatized!


----------



## LisaDiane

pastasauce79 said:


> I was happy when he said a lady started talking to him. I thought, "yes! That's great for his self esteem!" But now I think it was too much. It left him traumatized!


Oh jeez...he does need to get laid!!! That will work the trauma out of him! Lol!


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Diana7 said:


> I would like him to answer really. Not talking about general flirting here, or a 'suggestive' glance, but women actually proposing sex with a man who is married. I mean coming up and specifically suggesting it. Also not talking about clubs etc, but general day to day places.
> As I said, we know some very good looking men, this just isn't their experience.
> I think a lot of it is wishful thinking and fantasy.


I'm skeptical about women randomly coming up to men and going straight to asking to have sex. I don't doubt it does happen, but no way that is a common occurrence. I suspect a little exaggeration is going on here. I think getting hit on and flirting is being extended to mean I want sex, but who knows. 

In the past year or so I've been hit on by 3 women, all were roughly 10 years younger than me if I had to guess. All were while in the gym. None just asked for sex, but I do believe I could have taken it there if I wanted to. I always shut it down by saying thank you, but my wife might not want me to going out for a coffee with you, or what ever they said to me. 2 of the 3 were embarrassed, apologized and said they didn't know I was married (I don't always wear my ring while lifting). The 3rd woman's response to me telling her I was married, was so? She also gave off the strongest sex vibe, but she didn't just come out an say it. 

I have no doubt there are aggressive women out there, but I do find it highly unusual and unlikely that women are striking up conversations with guys and just come out and say, "hey, wanna get laid?"


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Diana7 said:


> I would like him to answer really. Not talking about general flirting here, or a 'suggestive' glance, but women actually proposing sex with a man who is married. I mean coming up and specifically suggesting it. Also not talking about clubs etc, but general day to day places.
> As I said, we know some very good looking men, this just isn't their experience.
> I think a lot of it is wishful thinking and fantasy.


I reread the thread that started this one. @Evinrude58 did answer that the women were not openly propositioning him. I take that to mean they were flirting and hitting on him. Which makes sense to me. I can also see that when that happens it is assumed that somewhere along the line sex is the goal, but not, "let's do in in the back seat of your car right now!"


----------



## Diana7

LisaDiane said:


> They aren't worried about shocking you, they are worried about your harsh judgement of them, if they care about your opinion.
> 
> You remind me alot of my mother. No one who knew her in our family ever shared anything with her, even her sisters -- not because she would be shocked, but because she would condemn us and never understand, and it just wasn't worth the argument to share those kinds of things with her.
> 
> We shared stories with her about gardening, house projects, cooking, and kids. We saved the sex stories for eachother, NEVER her. And I think she like it that way better as well - I think she liked living in her "bubble" of what SHE considered proper behavior, and she didn't want to know that other people felt differently than she did.


My children and other family members have shared many very personal things with me. About sex, relationships, things they have done, so no I am not like your mum in anyway. A friend told me about her affair, few others know. Another lady at my last church shared with me some very personal things about her dad and why her parents marriage ended. She hadn't told anyone else at the church. People trust me so tell me all sorts of things you wouldn't believe. Oh and I never judge them. If I did they wouldn't be so open with me.


----------



## Diana7

BigDaddyNY said:


> I reread the thread that started this one. @Evinrude58 did answer that the women were not openly propositioning him. I take that to mean they were flirting and hitting on him. Which makes sense to me. I can also see that when that happens it is assumed that somewhere along the line sex is the goal, but not, "let's do in in the back seat of your car right now!"


What he said was 'I have women asking for sex all the time'.
That's not the same as a little flirting or a one of those 'looks'. 
Mostly they are ignored. 


.


----------



## ConanHub

Diana7 said:


> I would like him to answer really. Not talking about general flirting here, or a 'suggestive' glance, but women actually proposing sex with a man who is married. I mean coming up and specifically suggesting it. Also not talking about clubs etc, but general day to day places.
> As I said, we know some very good looking men, this just isn't their experience.
> I think a lot of it is wishful thinking and fantasy.


Hahahaha. This again.


Women that want to play don't all just bluntly walk up to a guy and ask for sex, though that does happen sometimes, they aren't socially inept and feel a guy out, chat him up and flirt first to see if he is game.

I met a woman yesterday, surprisingly in my age range, that would have hopped at an invite to dinner and sex would have easily been the conclusion.

I'm experienced enough to recognize the opportunity and she couldn't seem to stop touching my arms and shoulders and we had just met.

She was very ladylike and not crass at all.

I meet women much younger every day that would hop in the sack very quickly if they thought it was an option for them.

It has been my experience for my entire life that, given the right circumstances, women will absolutely pursue men to bed them.


----------



## Numb26

ConanHub said:


> Hahahaha. This again.
> 
> 
> Women that want to play don't all just bluntly walk up to a guy and ask for sex, though that does happen sometimes, they aren't socially inept and feel a guy out, chat him up and flirt first to see if he is game.
> 
> I met a woman yesterday, surprisingly in my age range, that would have hopped at an invite to dinner and sex would have easily been the conclusion.
> 
> I'm experienced enough to recognize the opportunity and she couldn't seem to stop touching my arms and shoulders and we had just met.
> 
> She was very ladylike and not crass at all.
> 
> I meet women much younger every day that would hop in the sack very quickly if they thought it was an option for them.
> 
> It has been my experience for my entire life that, given the right circumstances, women will absolutely pursue men to bed them.


I have had two women actually say to me, "wanna have sex", so at this point it's not shocking anymore.


----------



## ConanHub

Numb26 said:


> I have had two women actually say to me, "wanna have sex", so at this point it's not shocking anymore.


I've had two neighborhood wives (one holding her baby) together offer me afternoon delight anytime I wanted to. 

Women want Snu Snu!!! LoL!😋


----------



## Numb26

ConanHub said:


> I've had two neighborhood wives (one holding her baby) together offer me afternoon delight anytime I wanted to.
> 
> Women want Snu Snu!!! LoL!😋


Luckily for me, I am single and was able to enjoy the offer! LMAO


----------



## ConanHub

Numb26 said:


> Luckily for me, I am single and was able to enjoy the offer! LMAO


True but I wouldn't touch a married woman anyhow.

The wife holding the baby was a typical attractive blonde though.😉


----------



## Al_Bundy

It's also more acceptable for women to physically touch/grab guys. Ask any guy who works out, very common for women to grab your arm under the excuse of getting your attention to ask you something. Not out of the way to have your butt grabbed either. I'm not talking about hood rats doing this, I'm talking about this going on in "polite" society.


----------



## Diana7

ConanHub said:


> Hahahaha. This again.
> 
> 
> Women that want to play don't all just bluntly walk up to a guy and ask for sex, though that does happen sometimes, they aren't socially inept and feel a guy out, chat him up and flirt first to see if he is game.
> 
> I met a woman yesterday, surprisingly in my age range, that would have hopped at an invite to dinner and sex would have easily been the conclusion.
> 
> I'm experienced enough to recognize the opportunity and she couldn't seem to stop touching my arms and shoulders and we had just met.
> 
> She was very ladylike and not crass at all.
> 
> I meet women much younger every day that would hop in the sack very quickly if they thought it was an option for them.
> 
> It has been my experience for my entire life that, given the right circumstances, women will absolutely pursue men to bed them.


That was my point. That women aren't usually so blatant as to ask for sex. Most who do this are just flirts and it means nothing more that that. If they aren't encouraged and are ignored they will just go on their way. 

Not sure why you would let a strange lady keep touching you. That happened to my husband when we were at a conference. A younger woman was very touchy feely with him. He handled it so well. He had a quiet word her and said it wasn't appropriate and she did stop.


----------



## ConanHub

Diana7 said:


> That was my point. That women aren't usually so blatant as to ask for sex. Most who do this are just flirts and it means nothing more that that. If they aren't encouraged and are ignored they will just go on their way.
> 
> Not sure why you would let a strange lady keep touching you. That happened to my husband when we were at a conference. A younger woman was very touchy feely with him. He handled it so well. He had a quiet word her and said it wasn't appropriate and she did stop.


It was very feminine/classy touches during conversation. Totally socially acceptable unless she was my wife's enemy.

She was single and, during conversation, I talked about my wife and family as she talked about her children.

We understood each other and nothing even approaching inappropriate happened.

If I had been available, she would have asked me out. There was no doubt about her intentions if I had been available.

It was all above board.


----------



## oldshirt

Diana7 said:


> You still haven't answered my question about where all these women are who have come up to you and asked for sex. You said it happens all the time. Where do you go where all these women ask for sex.


I was not the one that said that. 

I wish women were coming up to me asking for sex!!!! 😆 

Yes, in my 57 years I have had it occur a time or two but I was not the one who said that. 

The point to my post responding to your post is you simply do not know what goes on behind your friends and family’s closed doors.

Do you think my friends and family and coworkers know what I’ve done???? I guarantee you they do NOT. 

If I wasn’t married and didn’t have kids, a lot of people would probably I have rarely had sex at all because I am quite nerdy and geeky in normal day life.

Here on TAM is really the only place I ever talk about my sex life. 

I guarantee you that some nontraditional stuff has been going on with your friends and family. 

They don’t tell you about it because they know you’re not into that kind of stuff and would judge them for it and think lesser of them for it.


----------



## oldshirt

LisaDiane said:


> They aren't worried about shocking you, they are worried about your harsh judgement of them, if they care about your opinion.
> 
> You remind me alot of my mother. No one who knew her in our family ever shared anything with her, even her sisters -- not because she would be shocked, but because she would condemn us and never understand, and it just wasn't worth the argument to share those kinds of things with her.
> 
> We shared stories with her about gardening, house projects, cooking, and kids. We saved the sex stories for eachother, NEVER her. And I think she like it that way better as well - I think she liked living in her "bubble" of what SHE considered proper behavior, and she didn't want to know that other people felt differently than she did.


@Diana7 This^^^^^^^^^^^


----------



## Andy1001

I traveled a lot as a young man. 
I got on an elevator in a hotel in Manchester England one Friday night. A woman got on at the same time. She looked at me and said “Want to ****”. 
I did. 
We had a great couple of days together and I never even got her second name.
I honestly think that over the years at least a couple of hundred air hostesses slipped me their phone number and name of whatever hotel they were staying in that night.
And I called quite a few of them.
I always tried to work out every night after work in whatever hotel I happened to be staying in and I was often invited by one of the trainers for another type of workout.


----------



## Enigma32

As just a regular guy I have had SEVERAL women come right out and hit on me at my workplace even. Ladies came right out and offered me a BJ at my desk in my office. Clients and co-workers alike. 

One thing that many guys aren't mentioning is that usually if a woman comes right out and asks for sex like that, she almost always has a lower sexual marketplace value than the guy does. Maybe he is younger, better looking, whatever. Another reason the men y'all know aren't confessing everything that they do. No one wants to let the world know they had some ugly girl in the back seat of their car in the parking lot of Walmart.


----------



## Andy1001

Enigma32 said:


> As just a regular guy I have had SEVERAL women come right out and hit on me at my workplace even. Ladies came right out and offered me a BJ at my desk in my office. Clients and co-workers alike.
> 
> One thing that many guys aren't mentioning is that usually if a woman comes right out and asks for sex like that, she almost always has a lower sexual marketplace value than the guy does. Maybe he is younger, better looking, whatever. Another reason the men y'all know aren't confessing everything that they do. No one wants to let the world know they had some ugly girl in the back seat of their car in the parking lot of Walmart.


When she offered you the BJ you should have said ok but what’s in it for me.😈


----------



## oldshirt

Diana7 said:


> My children and other family members have shared many very personal things with me. About sex, relationships, things they have done, so no I am not like your mum in anyway. A friend told me about her affair, few others know. Another lady at my last church shared with me some very personal things about her dad and why her parents marriage ended. She hadn't told anyone else at the church. People trust me so tell me all sorts of things you wouldn't believe. Oh and I never judge them. If I did they wouldn't be so open with me.


I could see people coming to you with their moral dilemmas and looking for advice on how to get themselves out of a jam or problem they are having. I’m sure you have a solid track record of steering people to the straight and narrow. 

But I talking about people doing kooky shut in the bedroom and they dig it and they don’t have a problem with it. Those people aren’t going to say boo about it to you. 

And like I said initially, 95% of all sexuality takes place behind closed doors and kept private between the individuals involved. 

In reality you don’t know a tiny fraction of what goes on behind your friends and relative’s closed doors...... and that is how it SHOULD BE.


----------



## oldshirt

I think if we were to add the number of times that a woman to have a friend approach a guy for her, that number would rise even exponentially higher. 

I agree that most women don’t walk up to and blatantly proposition most men most of the time. 

......but many have had their friends do it for them. 

I’ve probably had that happen more often than the woman herself do it.


----------



## Luckylucky

Hmmm… 

We have a family member who is a little funny and gives out a vibe and is very touchy-feely and flirty with married men. Late 40s now. But all the men think she’s wanting sex. 😀 She’s married and loyal and hasn’t ever put out 😂

As kids she was always very physically clingy to the point where an elderly relative thought she was strange and said ‘I can’t get to cuddle my own grandkids this child clings to my side like glue’. 

I’m seeing a lot of stories here where men THINK they’re being propositioned all the time. And only a few stories where a woman has actually come out and said it outright. 

And 200 flight attendants’ phone numbers?? 200? This should be real news, sell that story if it’s true. Money to be made on that tale!


----------



## Lila

Enigma32 said:


> she almost always has a lower sexual marketplace value than the guy does. Maybe he is younger, better looking, whatever





Enigma32 said:


> No one wants to let the world know they had some ugly girl in the back seat of their car...


It's statements like these where I lose all sympathy for most men. Yes, yes.... men are driven by the visual but when the entire focus is a woman's appearance, then don't be surprised when you get ****ed over and not in the good way. Just saying.


----------



## Numb26

Enigma32 said:


> No one wants to let the world know they had some ugly girl in the back seat of their car in the parking lot of Walmart.


Yeap, the good old moped


----------



## Lila

I'm response to @Personal 's OP, I know men who have been blatantly propositioned for sex by woman. Have I ever done anything like that? No but I'm not going to deny that women can be just as lusty, bold, and sexually assertive as men.


----------



## ConanHub

Lila said:


> It's statements like these where I lose all sympathy for most men. Yes, yes.... men are driven by the visual but when the entire focus is a woman's appearance, then don't be surprised when you get ****ed over and not in the good way. Just saying.


I was really analyzing the statement to find if it was true in my experience and I don't even have any kind of graph for sexual market value at all.

I also never played in the backseat of a car.😉

I know I've felt flattered to receive attention from several of the women that have shown interest over the years.

The lady yesterday was 100% classy, elegant and in great shape. I didn't feel higher value than her for sure. I actually had to take a double take to make sure she was interested because I was dressed like an idiot. (Which is how I dress most of the time.)😆


----------



## ConanHub

Luckylucky said:


> Hmmm…
> 
> We have a family member who is a little funny and gives out a vibe and is very touchy-feely and flirty with married men. Late 40s now. But all the men think she’s wanting sex. 😀 She’s married and loyal and hasn’t ever put out 😂
> 
> As kids she was always very physically clingy to the point where an elderly relative thought she was strange and said ‘I can’t get to cuddle my own grandkids this child clings to my side like glue’.
> 
> I’m seeing a lot of stories here where men THINK they’re being propositioned all the time. And only a few stories where a woman has actually come out and said it outright.
> 
> And 200 flight attendants’ phone numbers?? 200? This should be real news, sell that story if it’s true. Money to be made on that tale!


What's really funny is he's telling the truth.😉

I didn't travel when I was young and pretty but I turned down hundreds of offers similar to his but in a different setting.

I'm a lot older and far less pretty but I still turn down around 2-3 offers a week when I'm traveling.

A lot of men are experienced enough to know the differences you are talking about.

Does your family member slip men her number or give them a hotel room number or ask for men's numbers or what hotel men are staying at?

The women doing this have already made up their minds to take the shot and follow through if the man agrees.


----------



## Lila

ConanHub said:


> I was really analyzing the statement to find if it was true in my experience and I don't even have any kind of graph for sexual market value at all.
> 
> I also never played in the backseat of a car.😉
> 
> I know I've felt flattered to receive attention from several of the women that have shown interest over the years.
> 
> The lady yesterday was 100% classy, elegant and in great shape. I didn't feel higher value than her for sure. I actually had to take a double take to make sure she was interested because I was dressed like an idiot. (Which is how I dress most of the time.)😆


Charismatic people attract others to themselves. It's contagious. Tack on the fact that you are an attractive man, and you have a recipe for a situation like the one you experienced yesterday. It had nothing o do with the woman's appearance and everything to do with how you presented yourself.


----------



## Evinrude58

Diana7 said:


> I would like him to answer really. Not talking about general flirting here, or a 'suggestive' glance, but women actually proposing sex with a man who is married. I mean coming up and specifically suggesting it. Also not talking about clubs etc, but general day to day places.
> As I said, we know some very good looking men, this just isn't their experience.
> I think a lot of it is wishful thinking and fantasy.


I’m not married, D7.
I have actually had women tell me right away they want a man that’s healthy and likes sex, and that they expect an active sex life. And I’ve had them literally try to take my clothes off on a first date.
I’ve had them reach over and cop a feel, etc.
All kinds of things that normally people say men do—- women are doing.

I don’t usually hang around with the fast ones unless they’re super hot, which does happen.
I suppose what I’m saying is that I’ve has lots of different dates, and almost invariably these ladies are far more eager to get my pants off than I am theirs in most cases. I don’t go around having sex with every woman I meet, but most are interested and most make it clear they want sex. My experience is that women from 35 and up are like 18 yr old boys— starving for sex.


----------



## ConanHub

Lila said:


> It had nothing to do with the woman's appearance and everything to do with how you presented yourself.


I think I agree with this but I'm not certain what you are conveying?

I think you are saying that her "sexual market value", or looks/appearance had nothing to do with her willingness to let me know she was very interested in me. I believe you are right. We had a very good conversation and we both enjoyed the other's company.

She had Audrey Hepburn type looks and build.

I was far more impressed with her poise and manners. It was nice to catch the attention of someone my age for once.😉

Typing it out, I do understand what you are saying and I agree totally.


----------



## Lila

ConanHub said:


> I think you are saying that her "sexual market value", or looks/appearance had nothing to do with her willingness to let me know she was very interested in me.



Yes. This is exactly what I'm trying to say.


----------



## Enigma32

Lila said:


> It's statements like these where I lose all sympathy for most men. Yes, yes.... men are driven by the visual but when the entire focus is a woman's appearance, then don't be surprised when you get ****ed over and not in the good way. Just saying.


Precisely what about my statement makes you lose sympathy for men?


----------



## Elizabeth001

Enigma32 said:


> Precisely what about my statement makes you lose sympathy for men?


She’s talking about karma dude…you get back what you throw out. That’s why we lose sympathy. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Numb26

Elizabeth001 said:


> She’s talking about karma dude…you get back what you throw out. That’s why we lose sympathy.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Or vice versa. 🤔


----------



## ConanHub

Enigma32 said:


> Precisely what about my statement makes you lose sympathy for men?


She didn't say men with a broad brush. It's important not to lump us all in together because of our y chromosome.


----------



## Al_Bundy

Enigma32 said:


> Precisely what about my statement makes you lose sympathy for men?


I think because you eluded to having a preference, how dare you.


----------



## Lila

Enigma32 said:


> Precisely what about my statement makes you lose sympathy for men?


I have no sympathy for men who determine the quality of the person based solely on physical appearances and then find themselves in unhappy superficial relationships.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Personal said:


> I don't understand the disbelief. It happens to plenty of men, so @Evinrude58's experience isn't an extraordinary occurance.
> 
> 
> The where of such offers can be quite numerous, they can be at work, at parties, grocery stores, communal kitchens at campgrounds, beaches, pubs, clubs, concerts, public transport, friends places, even play dates arranged for ones kids and no doubt more places than my experience.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers.


I'm afraid you missed the entire context. It wasn't about if women want sex and flirt with men. It was about if women stand up in the middle of a room and wave their arms and ask if someone wants to have sex.


----------



## Lila

Al_Bundy said:


> I think because you eluded to having a preference, how dare you.


He's welcome to have whatever preferences he wants. But what he said was "*No One [*_referring to all men_*]* wants to let the world know they had some ugly girl in the back seat of their car". What he should say is "*I* don't want to let the world that *I* had some ugly girl in the back seat"

ETA:. As one of those "ugly" women, I have had no trouble finding men who were both much better looking, more successful, and way better than me in other ways to actually get into relationships, not just be ****ed and chucked. Must be something about me beyond my physical appearance to make me a quality partner. Go figure.


----------



## Evinrude58

DownByTheRiver said:


> I'm afraid you missed the entire context. It wasn't about if women want sex and flirt with men. It was about if women stand up in the middle of a room and wave their arms and ask if someone wants to have sex.


 Nobody does that. Men don’t either.
But apparently some of you low drive or asexual ladies think all women are like yourselves. They’re not. There’s lots and lots of couples having mutually satisfying sex years after they were married. And there’s lots of single women that will let a man know right quick that they are wanting some physical affection. Horizontal mombo, f’ing. Whatever you want to call it.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Lila said:


> I'm response to @Personal 's OP, I know men who have been blatantly propositioned for sex by woman. Have I ever done anything like that? No but I'm not going to deny that women can be just as lusty, bold, and sexually assertive as men.


The one I know who did it was a prostitute but she would do it to guys she wanted to be with and wasn't going to take money from. I knew about it because a couple of different guys told me how she operated.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Evinrude58 said:


> I’m not married, D7.
> I have actually had women tell me right away they want a man that’s healthy and likes sex, and that they expect an active sex life. And I’ve had them literally try to take my clothes off on a first date.
> I’ve had them reach over and cop a feel, etc.
> All kinds of things that normally people say men do—- women are doing.
> 
> I don’t usually hang around with the fast ones unless they’re super hot, which does happen.
> I suppose what I’m saying is that I’ve has lots of different dates, and almost invariably these ladies are far more eager to get my pants off than I am theirs in most cases. I don’t go around having sex with every woman I meet, but most are interested and most make it clear they want sex. My experience is that women from 35 and up are like 18 yr old boys— starving for sex.


None of which is unusual or what we were actually talking about on the other thread.


----------



## Enigma32

Lila said:


> He's welcome to have whatever preferences he wants. But what he said was "*No One [*_referring to all men_*]* wants to let the world know they had some ugly girl in the back seat of their car". What he should say is "*I* don't want to let the world that *I* had some ugly girl in the back seat"


I actually never did that one I just chose something specific in order to paint a picture for everyone here. So my wording was correct when I said "no one" since most guys have done something similar, if not that exact scenario. 

Many guys have a similar experience whether they will admit it or not and most simply won't admit it, because even on an anonymous forum like this one, there is still a lot of male posturing to look good for the female posters.



> ETA:. As one of those "ugly" women, I have had no trouble finding men who were both much better looking, more successful, and way better than me in other ways to actually get into relationships, not just be ****ed and chucked. Must be something about me beyond my physical appearance to make me a quality partner. Go figure.


And that's cool. Good for you! Really. I actually find it rather sad when some girl is willing to degrade herself to hooking up with a bunch of guys who have ZERO respect for her just because she will do anything to spend time with those guys. It's pathetic, really. This is also why a lot of the more player type guys I've known have very little respect for ladies.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Evinrude58 said:


> Nobody does that. Men don’t either.
> But apparently some of you low drive or asexual ladies think all women are like yourselves. They’re not. There’s lots and lots of couples having mutually satisfying sex years after they were married. And there’s lots of single women that will let a man know right quick that they are wanting some physical affection. Horizontal mombo, f’ing. Whatever you want to call it.


Well that was exactly what you changed the meaning of in your mind to suit yourself and then got mad when you got the appropriate responses to it.


----------



## Lila

Enigma32 said:


> *Many guys have a similar experience whether they will admit it or not *and most simply won't admit it, because even on an anonymous forum like this one, there is still a lot of male posturing to look good for the female posters.


So if something is true for you then it must be true for all? 

Maybe it's me but I tend to take people at their word. If they say "that's not my style", then I believe them even if it's not at all my perspective or my experience. 




Enigma32 said:


> This is also why a lot of the more player type guys I've known have very little respect for ladies.


Is it possible that th company you keep is skewing your perspective?


----------



## Enigma32

Lila said:


> So if something is true for you then it must be true for all?


No. I speak mostly based on observations on others, not so much personal experience. Because of my work (I also used to go out to the bars a lot), I meet a lot of people from all walks of life and after a few drinks, guys start telling other guys the "locker room" type talk that got Trump in trouble a few years ago. Most guys have hooked up with the fat/ugly/whatever girl one night at the club when they were hard up or after a few months of using OLD when no one else would reply to their messages.



> Is it possible that th company you keep is skewing your perspective?


Sure, anything is possible. In this instance though...highly unlikely. Hang out at the bar around closing time and you will see a few examples of what I am talking about here. It's a bit of an ugly truth I guess, and I can understand why some ladies don't wanna accept this fact, but reality won't change because some people find it uncomfortable.

Why do you think one of the complaints ladies have about OLD is all the guys looking for hookups? It's not that the guy in particular doesn't want a relationship, it's just that he doesn't want a relationship with HER. She's the girl he doesn't want anyone to know about so he will hit her up when he wants to get laid but she never meets his family. Heck, that's part of the reason I suggest people stay away from OLD since that particular dynamic is so prevalent on there.


----------



## ccpowerslave

Al_Bundy said:


> It's also more acceptable for women to physically touch/grab guys. Ask any guy who works out, very common for women to grab your arm under the excuse of getting your attention to ask you something. Not out of the way to have your butt grabbed either. I'm not talking about hood rats doing this, I'm talking about this going on in "polite" society.


I have had a few do it right in front of my wife, mostly waitresses. Grab my shoulders and rub them. One time a waitress at a place we used to go sat right next to me in the booth so her hip was touching mine with my wife on the other side.

I was just shocked. Shocked and dismayed and also perhaps saddened…



😈


----------



## Evinrude58

DownByTheRiver said:


> Well that was exactly what you changed the meaning of in your mind to suit yourself and then got mad when you got the appropriate responses to it.


Got mad?


----------



## heartsbeating

Lila said:


> Charismatic people attract others to themselves. It's contagious. Tack on the fact that you are an attractive man, and you have a recipe for a situation like the one you experienced yesterday. It had nothing o do with the woman's appearance and everything to do with how you presented yourself.


And then (unrelated to Conan), there are scenarios where I scratch my head. And it's not for me to get. Such as learning (after the fact) that a female colleague instigated a no-strings thing with one of the guys we also worked with, to having quickies in her car at lunch. Both single. When I learned of this, I judgmentally thought 'Really ...with that guy?'

I don't feel like I really understand the point of this thread though and wondered if someone could break it down for me? I don't know the context of where it started. All I know is that yes, women initiate casual sex with men. I know this through experiences of friends and scenarios like the above. And that men initiate casual sex with women. What am I missing?


----------



## heartsbeating

Lila said:


> ETA:. As one of those "ugly" women, I have had no trouble finding men who were both much better looking, more successful, and way better than me in other ways to actually get into relationships, not just be ****ed and chucked. Must be something about me beyond my physical appearance to make me a quality partner. Go figure.


From my view, I call bollocks on the first part of your sentiment. Also, as you said 'charismatic people attract others to themselves' and no doubt it must also be something about who you are deciding to focus your energy on and just as importantly, who not to.


----------



## Lila

Enigma32 said:


> No. I speak mostly based on observations on others, not so much personal experience. Because of my work (I also used to go out to the bars a lot), I meet a lot of people from all walks of life and after a few drinks, guys start telling other guys the "locker room" type talk that got Trump in trouble a few years ago. *Most guys have hooked up with the fat/ugly/whatever girl one night at the club when they were hard up or after a few months of using OLD when no one else would reply to their messages.*



But wouldn't the fact that these "ugly" girls is the best they can do mean that they themselves are not attractive enough for the better looking women? In other words, they are playing in their league. 




> Sure, anything is possible. In this instance though...highly unlikely. Hang out at the bar around closing time and you will see a few examples of what I am talking about here. It's a bit of an ugly truth I guess, and I can understand why some ladies don't wanna accept this fact, but reality won't change because some people find it uncomfortable.
> 
> Why do you think one of the complaints ladies have about OLD is all the guys looking for hookups? It's not that the guy in particular doesn't want a relationship, it's just that he doesn't want a relationship with HER. She's the girl he doesn't want anyone to know about so he will hit her up when he wants to get laid but she never meets his family. Heck, that's part of the reason I suggest people stay away from OLD since that particular dynamic is so prevalent on there.


Let's assume for a minute that you're right and the "ugly" girls are only useful for ****ing and chucking. 

Do you think they should end their lives? 

Join a convent? 

Accept their lot in life, that they'll never find someone who thinks of her as anything more than a sex toy to be kept hidden? 

Remove themselves from the pool all together and make the best of their lives alone? 

Wouldn't that shrink the pool even more for men? Ya know, cause there's only so many pretty woman produced per generation.


----------



## Lila

heartsbeating said:


> All I know is that yes, women initiate casual sex with men. I know this through experiences of friends and scenarios like the above. And that men initiate casual sex with women. What am I missing?



I don't think you've missed anything. @Personal can probably explain the reason for the thread but i think it was prompted by a discussion on another thread where some questioned whether women initiate casual sex much like men.


----------



## ConanHub

Lila said:


> He's welcome to have whatever preferences he wants. But what he said was "*No One [*_referring to all men_*]* wants to let the world know they had some ugly girl in the back seat of their car". What he should say is "*I* don't want to let the world that *I* had some ugly girl in the back seat"
> 
> ETA:. As one of those "ugly" women, I have had no trouble finding men who were both much better looking, more successful, and way better than me in other ways to actually get into relationships, not just be ****ed and chucked. Must be something about me beyond my physical appearance to make me a quality partner. Go figure.


I liked on this but don't agree with the "ugly" part though I understand what you were saying with your quotation marks.

This barbarian thinks you are a quality woman. There are actually a good few quality women here, come to think of it.

I'm not making a pass from the stratosphere of course. I'm just an adult making a somewhat informed observation.

As to the tone of many posts, I try to empathize with differing points of view but trying to comprehend humanity, women and men and relationships, in terms of market value, turns my stomach even as I try to understand those who conceptualize that way.


Higher concepts and ideals and real values get lost when we compare ourselves to prime rib and hamburger.

I get it but looks, wealth, etc. just aren't everything or nearly enough.


----------



## ConanHub

Enigma32 said:


> Many guys have a similar experience whether they will admit it or not and most simply won't admit it, because even on an anonymous forum like this one, there is still a lot of male posturing to look good for the female posters.


You should definitely speak for yourself and your associates.

You certainly don't represent me here and it's important you don't come off like you do.

It should be noted that I have pissed off a lot of women in real life and here as well because I'm unapologetically me.

I have no need to not admit to what you are talking about because it's never been my experience.

I have never had sex with anyone I wouldn't be seen with on my arm and I've never used someone just to get my rocks off while thinking "ugly" thoughts about them.

That's low sh!t.


----------



## Rob_1

Well, I once did an ugly chick, but hey everybody knew, I didn't care. I was horny.


----------



## ConanHub

Rob_1 said:


> Well, I once did an ugly chick, but hey everybody knew, I didn't care. I was horny.


Downvote


----------



## Evinrude58

ConanHub said:


> *I have never had sex with anyone I wouldn't be seen with on my arm* and I've never used someone just to get my rocks off while thinking "ugly" thoughts about them.
> 
> That's low sh!t.



View attachment 79311


really? What about that one girl that night…. Just yankin your chain.
I’ll tell on myself. I have.


----------



## ConanHub

Evinrude58 said:


> View attachment 79311


LoL! It's the truth. I've turned down far more women than I've accepted. It wasn't because they all weren't to my standards of attractiveness either.

I'll believe your take on your life and others as well.

It isn't mine though. Even the most evil and rotten excuse for a human that I was ever with was a very well developed belly dancer that was nice to my grandmother in conversations.

She is the woman I regret being with the most and I still feel soiled sometimes thinking about her but I not only went out with her, I even introduced her to my grandma. 

I have never taken a woman I wasn't willing to be seen with. That seems ridiculous to me.

It's low as well, though I like your sense of humor.😉


----------



## Personal

Diana7 said:


> I would like him to answer really. Not talking about general flirting here, or a 'suggestive' glance, but women actually proposing sex with a man who is married. I mean coming up and specifically suggesting it. Also not talking about clubs etc, but general day to day places.
> As I said, we know some very good looking men, this just isn't their experience.
> I think a lot of it is wishful thinking and fantasy.


Here you go.

After I finished my last stint of (full-time) Regular Army service, I was playing stay at home parent for a while. Anyway I used to take my son and daughter to a local community play group. When on one occasion I was specifically introduced to a new mother at the playgroup who was very attractive, because this other woman thought we had some things in common. So we started chatting, and as the session was nearing its end we exchanged contact numbers and arranged a date for our sons to play together at her place a few days later.

So the day comes around and I turn up at hers while our respective spouses are at work. which means it's just us and the kids. She meets me at the door wearing a top that afforded me some glimpse of her nipples from the side. She then offered to give me a tour of her grand home and she takes me to her bedroom while our kids are having fun with themselves. When she then asked me if I wanted to play with her, while the kids were busy. And though tempted, I just thanked her for the offer and turned her down. She was cool about it and offered, if you change your mind. Yet I didn't, change my mind. That said she then put on another not revealing top, then after that we chatted further for a while until it was time for me to go. Given the temptation, I subsequently chose not to do more playdates with her.

...

Although I wasn't married, at the very least I was engaged and weeks away from being married for the second time. So at the time I was for the most part living with my wife, although I maintained my own seperate address, 2 doors up from my wife in a shared rental household. When during one of the rare occasions I was at my actual place. One of my brand new housemates was a pretty young Japanese woman (a university student on a student visa), who asked if I could play some of my music collection for her.

So being nice I obliged her, then after a little while she asked me why I hadn't tried to have sex with her and asked if I was gay. In response I said I'm engaged to another woman so I'm not gay I'm just not available. She then told me she wanted to have sex with me, and didn't mind that I was with someone else. Plus she said she wouldn't embarrass me. While also saying that in Japan, lots of people who have partners or are married have no problem with other partners.

...

With one of my dear friends who I hadn't seen for a while, she had one of our mutual friends call me, to come over to see her. Her then husband had just been taken away by the Police after hitting her, I was divorced at the time and was not in an ongoing sexual relationship with anyone. She asked me to join her in her bedroom, I then spent the night with her, while our mutual friend slept in the lounge room. I was called so that I would have sex with her, she wanted to get back at her husband, I knew she wanted to use me to hurt him, I consented to what she wanted to a point, since I didn't want to get embroiled with my friend as a long term sexual partner. We are still friends today and my wife knows her as well and knows about our past together.

...

There have been plenty of other very explicit and direct, not just flirting experiences that I have had as well while married and not married. Although more of them have been in club and pub settings. If we count pubs and clubs, there have been plenty that just came out and said "do you want to ****?"

That said more generally most of the women I have been with have directly asked me out, or directly invited, offered, or asked me to have sex with them, with plenty of them being very forward.

...

Even my wife asked me out on a date, while she was in a sexual relationship with another man. Of which the catalyst for asking me at the time, was her disappointment with the other mans sexual skills and attitude. Combined with her finding out another woman at work was about to ask me out on a date, so she beat her to it. At the time my wife was not looking for anything other than a guy to have fun with sexually.

Our first date was to a protest rally at lunch, our second was later that evening with me spending the night with her, heavy petting etc. Our third date then saw my wife clumsily drag me to the floor on top of her asking me to have sex with her. she wanted to have me because of lust, and I was the same. It just turned out we clicked well together in other ways so we're still together more than 25 years later.

...

I met my ex-wife at a party, she asked a mutual friend to ask me to come over and talk to her. When I did her first words were telling me how beautiful I was, shortly after that she asked me to kiss her, then she asked for more, then she asked me to have sex with her within a couple of hours of meeting her, all of which I obliged.

...

When I was a young man up to 24 I have had a few women explicitly ask me to take their virginty, some of whom I said yes to and some I said no to. The first being from an 18 year old woman when I was 16, from school. Who explained to me how she wanted to experience sex and she wanted it to be with me, yet I turned her down because I wasn't attracted to her.

...

At the end of the day It happens. There are plenty of women who are sexually forward, and have voracious sexual appetites. Of course it isn't all but there are plenty enough in the world. That this shouldn't be a revelation or surprise to anyone.


----------



## Personal

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> t's not that uncommon. The smart married man politely and tactfully shrugs it off, and doesn't bring up it up with W. For what reason would he if he's in a happy M.


It's funny I've told my wife about some of those instances just after they have happened, and she has even witnessed other women herself do it to me on a few occasions.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Lila said:


> *But wouldn't the fact that these "ugly" girls is the best they can do mean that they themselves are not attractive enough for the better looking women? In other words, they are playing in their league.*


This. Whatever do men who would think something like this tell themselves to keep themselves convinced they are entitled to better?


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Diana7 said:


> I would like him to answer really. Not talking about general flirting here, or a 'suggestive' glance, but women actually proposing sex with a man who is married. I mean coming up and specifically suggesting it. Also not talking about clubs etc, but general day to day places.
> As I said, we know some very good looking men, this just isn't their experience.
> I think a lot of it is wishful thinking and fantasy.


Well yes Diana, but as he said, all women are not asexual and low drive like us. 😂🙄


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Rob_1 said:


> Well, I once did an ugly chick, but hey everybody knew, I didn't care. I was horny.


Well speaking for all "ugly chicks" out there, thank you from the bottom of our hearts for your kind consideration.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Personal said:


> Here you go.
> 
> After I finished my last stint of (full-time) Regular Army service, I was playing stay at home parent for a while. Anyway I used to take my son and daughter to a local community play group. When on one occasion I was specifically introduced to a new mother at the playgroup who was very attractive, because this other woman thought we had some things in common. So we started chatting, and as the session was nearing its end we exchanged contact numbers and arranged a date for our sons to play together at her place a few days later.
> 
> So the day comes around and I turn up at hers while our respective spouses are at work. which means it's just us and the kids. She meets me at the door wearing a top that afforded me some glimpse of her nipples from the side. She then offered to give me a tour of her grand home and she takes me to her bedroom while our kids are having fun with themselves. When she then asked me if I wanted to play with her, while the kids were busy. And though tempted, I just thanked her for the offer and turned her down. She was cool about it and offered, if you change your mind. Yet I didn't, change my mind. That said she then put on another not revealing top, then after that we chatted further for a while until it was time for me to go. Given the temptation, I subsequently chose not to do more playdates with her.
> 
> ...
> 
> Although I wasn't married, at the very least I was engaged and weeks away from being married for the second time. So at the time I was for the most part living with my wife, although I maintained my own seperate address, 2 doors up from my wife in a shared rental household. When during one of the rare occasions I was at my actual place. One of my brand new housemates was a pretty young Japanese woman (a university student on a student visa), who asked if I could play some of my music collection for her.
> 
> So being nice I obliged her, then after a little while she asked me why I hadn't tried to have sex with her and asked if I was gay. In response I said I'm engaged to another woman so I'm not gay I'm just not available. She then told me she wanted to have sex with me, and didn't mind that I was with someone else. Plus she said she wouldn't embarrass me. While also saying that in Japan, lots of people who have partners or are married have no problem with other partners.
> 
> ...
> 
> With one of my dear friends who I hadn't seen for a while, she had one of our mutual friends call me, to come over to see her. Her then husband had just been taken away by the Police after hitting her, I was divorced at the time and was not in an ongoing sexual relationship with anyone. She asked me to join her in her bedroom, I then spent the night with her, while our mutual friend slept in the lounge room. I was called so that I would have sex with her, she wanted to get back at her husband, I knew she wanted to use me to hurt him, I consented to what she wanted to a point, since I didn't want to get embroiled with my friend as a long term sexual partner. We are still friends today and my wife knows her as well and knows about our past together.
> 
> ...
> 
> There have been plenty of other very explicit and direct, not just flirting experiences that I have had as well while married and not married. Although more of them have been in club and pub settings. If we count pubs and clubs, there have been plenty that just came out and said "do you want to ****?"
> 
> That said more generally most of the women I have been with have directly asked me out, or directly invited, offered, or asked me to have sex with them, with plenty of them being very forward.
> 
> ...
> 
> Even my wife asked me out on a date, while she was in a sexual relationship with another man. Of which the catalyst for asking me at the time, was her disappointment with the other mans sexual skills and attitude. Combined with her finding out another woman at work was about to ask me out on a date, so she beat her to it. At the time my wife was not looking for anything other than a guy to have fun with sexually.
> 
> Our first date was to a protest rally at lunch, our second was later that evening with me spending the night with her, heavy petting etc. Our third date then saw my wife clumsily drag me to the floor on top of her asking me to have sex with her. she wanted to have me because of lust, and I was the same. It just turned out we clicked well together in other ways so we're still together more than 25 years later.
> 
> ...
> 
> I met my ex-wife at a party, she asked a mutual friend to ask me to come over and talk to her. When I did her first words were telling me how beautiful I was, shortly after that she asked me to kiss her, then she asked for more, then she asked me to have sex with her within a couple of hours of meeting her, all of which I obliged.
> 
> ...
> 
> When I was a young man up to 24 I have had a few women explicitly ask me to take their virginty, some of whom I said yes to and some I said no to. The first being from an 18 year old woman when I was 16, from school. Who explained to me how she wanted to experience sex and she wanted it to be with me, yet I turned her down because I wasn't attracted to her.
> 
> ...
> 
> At the end of the day It happens. There are plenty of women who are sexually forward, and have voracious sexual appetites. Of course it isn't all but there are plenty enough in the world. That this shouldn't be a revelation or surprise to anyone.


You just never did read the original thread that made you go off, did you?


----------



## Personal

Diana7 said:


> That's simply not true. These are close family members and close friends. People we know very well. My family also knows that after the things I have been through in my life I am practically unshockable. Many things have been shared over the years with family and close friends.


Not everyone shares.

My wife has a close friend, who she has been friends with for 30 years, this friend has experienced some bad things, especially being the daughter of an alcoholic mother. Yet this friend is a highly devout practicing Christian, who has kept her chastity despite being 49 as she is still saving herself for marriage. Anyway she texts her, and (Covid-19 allowing) they catch up for dinner, lunch, go to events together and my wife even sometimes goes to church with her.

Since my wife was quite religious herself (until she became an atheist) , having also attended religious schools growing up, she has some other friends from her school days who are still active Christians. Plus she has a sister-in-law who has amongst plenty of other qualifications a postgrad Bachelor of Divinity Degree who is also very devout. In fact most of my wife's family (including all of her siblings) are very religious and active in the church. To the point that my wife, still attends church with her mother, lest she causes too much upset depending upon the days she visits.

My wife is also friends with one woman in a more closed Christian family that homeschools, I've been to their place and every room has biblical texts and teachings plastered all over every wall of their house.

Yet there is absolutely no way (according to her), that she has told any of them or would ever tell any of them. The things she has done sexually and her views on sex.

Just because people in your circle don't tell you stuff like that. It doesn't mean that all of them aren't doing or haven't done such things.

The above mentioned people who my wife is friends with or related to, have absolutely no idea what kind of sex life my wife has, nor do they know some of my wife's other interests, friends and social circles whether they come across as judgemental or not.

Likewise even amongst some of her other non-religious friends she doesn't tell them stuff either, since she relates that sometimes she has been with some women who bring up sex, and decry anal sex and blowjobs. Yet she feels she would be looked down upon, if she dared to say she liked doing those things. So she just says nothing or goes along to get along.


----------



## Personal

DownByTheRiver said:


> I'm afraid you missed the entire context. It wasn't about if women want sex and flirt with men. It was about if women stand up in the middle of a room and wave their arms and ask if someone wants to have sex.


No one except you said women stand up in the middle of a room and wave their arms then ask if someone wants to have sex.


----------



## heartsbeating

DownByTheRiver said:


> You just never did read the original thread that made you go off, did you?


I was still missing the context for this thread (._..I wouldn't say I've been missing it, Bob_ - Office Space reference) and so to find it, I went to the opening post to grab some key search words and searched 'Super handsome dude'. I found that amusing. Anyway, read the original thread and feeling a bit more up to speed. Maybe it's just me, I do kind of feel like this topic is a bit left-field to the original.


----------



## Personal

DownByTheRiver said:


> The one I know who did it was a prostitute but she would do it to guys she wanted to be with and wasn't going to take money from. I knew about it because a couple of different guys told me how she operated.


I've never been directly propositioned by a sex worker, nor have I been with a sex worker when they are working. That said a former partner of mine who was a university student at the time, had been a sex worker for a short while when living in Japan.

That said female sex workers aren't the only people who are sometimes inclined to explicitly offer sex to men


----------



## heartsbeating

Beyond our relationship together (as a given), I am reading this thread and couldn't even think of a time within the last couple of years that I was hit on, let alone propositioned. And similarly with Batman, as far as I know.

I'm not challenging that it happens, though.


----------



## Personal

Lila said:


> I don't think you've missed anything. @Personal can probably explain the reason for the thread but i think it was prompted by a discussion on another thread where some questioned whether women initiate casual sex much like men.


Yep, I just didn't want to carry on a thread jack, challenging the idea that women as a rule don't ever specifically just want sex and aren't forward about it.

That said I think it is hyperbole for @Evinrude58 to claim it happens all of the time, on the other hand it wouldn't surprise me if it has occurred lots of times for him.


----------



## Personal

heartsbeating said:


> Beyond our relationship together (as a given), I am reading this thread and couldn't even think of a time within the last couple of years that I was hit on, let alone propositioned. And similarly with Batman, as far as I know.
> 
> I'm not challenging that it happens, though.


And such occurrences (which aren't and have never been all of the time for me) can and will decline with age. Yet such occurrences aren't extraordinary by any measure.


----------



## In Absentia

Numb26 said:


> I have had two women actually say to me, "wanna have sex", so at this point it's not shocking anymore.


Since we are all boasting  I've had two girls and a boy wanting to sleep with me one night after a party... I picked none, although they were all very attractive, and I thought about a little orgy... but too much alcohol... BTW, I was 20. I had a great phase when I was 19-22 of sleeping around and enjoying women, with no string attached. Then I met my wife... she was the most beautiful girl, so I settled... ah well... to be honest, that time (orgy - well, no orgy) wasn't the only time I was openly proposed, but then I was young and good looking...


----------



## Cici1990

Andy1001 said:


> I traveled a lot as a young man.
> I got on an elevator in a hotel in Manchester England one Friday night. A woman got on at the same time. She looked at me and said “Want to ****”.
> I did.
> We had a great couple of days together and I never even got her second name.
> I honestly think that over the years at least a couple of hundred air hostesses slipped me their phone number and name of whatever hotel they were staying in that night.
> And I called quite a few of them.
> I always tried to work out every night after work in whatever hotel I happened to be staying in and I was often invited by one of the trainers for another type of workout.


A COUPLE OF HUNDRED air hostesses? Jeez, what do you look like????


----------



## Andy1001

Cici1990 said:


> A COUPLE OF HUNDRED air hostesses? Jeez, what do you look like????


I’d just sit on the plane licking my eyebrows. 😇


----------



## Numb26

I know this has been mentioned before but why is it socially acceptable for women to come up and touch a man on his biceps or chest, etc. without permission but if a man would do it the same to a woman he would be in trouble?


----------



## In Absentia

Numb26 said:


> I know this has been mentioned before but why is it socially acceptable for women to come up and touch a man on his biceps or chest, etc. without permission but if a man would do it the same to a woman he would be in trouble?


It depends on the level of friendship? I can touch a female friend's biceps if we know each other well - in the right context obviously. As strangers, never happened to me, really, although I've had my bum slapped...


----------



## Personal

I've never had women strangers get handy with my biceps, although like In Absentia I have had my backside grabbed, pinched and slapped.


----------



## Numb26

It doesn't happen at competitions because women know it is absolutely frowned upon so why would they feel they can do it elsewhere? And these are strangers I am talking about


----------



## Lila

ConanHub said:


> trying to comprehend humanity, women and men and relationships, in terms of market value, turns my stomach even as I try to understand those who conceptualize that way.
> 
> 
> Higher concepts and ideals and real values get lost when we compare ourselves to prime rib and hamburger.
> 
> I get it but looks, wealth, etc. just aren't everything or nearly enough.


I'm trying to comprehend it as well because from where I sit it seems self defeating if the goal is to meet someone compatible for anything more that a shag or two. 

And my questions asking what the "ugly" women should do with their lives is legitimate. Curious minds want to know. What do the people who think like @Enigma32 believe should be the fate of those women who are deemed too "ugly" and therefore worthless to men.


----------



## ccpowerslave

Numb26 said:


> I know this has been mentioned before but why is it socially acceptable for women to come up and touch a man on his biceps or chest, etc. without permission but if a man would do it the same to a woman he would be in trouble?


I don’t know but I have never had a woman do this to me where I was thinking “yuck” so please carry on.


----------



## Numb26

ccpowerslave said:


> I don’t know but I have never had a woman do this to me where I was thinking “yuck” so please carry on.


LOL I get that but I have a thing about perfect strangers touching me uninvited


----------



## In Absentia

Lila said:


> I'm trying to comprehend it as well because from where I sit it seems self defeating if the goal is to meet someone compatible for anything more that a shag or two.
> 
> And my questions asking what the "ugly" women should do with their lives is legitimate. Curious minds want to know. What do the people who think like @Enigma32 believe should be the fate of those women who are deemed too "ugly" and therefore worthless to men.


This market value thing is rather "disturbing"... I never thought in those terms. I was surprised that it even existed. To me people are people.


----------



## Lila

Personal said:


> Yep, I just didn't want to carry on a thread jack, challenging the idea that women as a rule don't ever specifically just want sex and aren't forward about it.
> 
> That said I think it is hyperbole for @Evinrude58 to claim it happens all of the time, on the other hand it wouldn't surprise me if it has occurred lots of times for him.


Women are sexual beings. In the past sexually aggressive or blatant behavior was frowned upon and dare I say forced to stop completely (think about doctors who made a killing on the treatment for "hysteria" at the turn of the 20th century🙄. For those that don't know, that's what prompted the invention of the vibrator). 

We live in a different world. Women are free to have sex whenever and with whomever they want. Hell, women are encouraged to be bold in life so I don't think it's too far fetched that some extend that boldness to sex. 

True story. I was on a (bad) first date with this (arrogant, loud, obnoxious) man at a local suburban bar near my house. In walked this very polished, attractive, charismatic woman who exuded man-eater aura. She sat across from me along the L shared bar next to a very attractive man. This woman was enthralling. The guy I was on the date with was salivating over her which was great as it gave me an opportunity to make my escape, but I digress. I heard her ask the attractive guy if he wanted to come back to her place for a drink. That's all she had to say. She entered her information into his telephone and said her goodbyes. Attractive guy paid his bill and off he went. I'm sure these types of interactions happen way more often than most assume.


----------



## Personal

Which reminds me @Lila, my wife and I were sharing lunch in this restaurant a couple of years ago. When there was a late twenties something couple sharing, what appeared to be a first date at the nearest table to us. And both of us were cringing every time the guy spoke. To the point we were hoping the young woman, would just excuse herself and end our pain.


----------



## ConanHub

In Absentia said:


> Since we are all boasting  I've had two girls and a boy wanting to sleep with me one night after a party... I picked none, although they were all very attractive, and I thought about a little orgy... but too much alcohol... BTW, I was 20. I had a great phase when I was 19-22 of sleeping around and enjoying women, with no string attached. Then I met my wife... she was the most beautiful girl, so I settled... ah well... to be honest, that time (orgy - well, no orgy) wasn't the only time I was openly proposed, but then I was young and good looking...


Hahahaha! Don't get me started on the men...🙄


----------



## Lila

Personal said:


> Which reminds me @Lila, my wife and I were sharing lunch in this restaurant a couple of years ago. When there was a late twenties something couple sharing, what appeared to be a first date at the nearest table to us. And both of us were cringing every time the guy spoke. To the point we were hoping the young woman, would just excuse herself and end our pain.


Lol. I'm glad you shared this because I thought it was just a Lila moment. 

What I didn't include in my post was that the attractive man was sitting diagonally to me, and I could see him but my date couldn't. He kept rolling his eyes and shaking his head at everything coming out my date's mouth.

I decided to leave when the attractive guy was paying his bill. My date asked me to wait until he paid the tab so he could walk me to my car. I politely declined but he was being insistent. Attractive guy stepped in and told my date "I'll walk her to her car". I literally jogged to the door, I wanted out of there so badly. True to his word, attractive guy walked me to my car all the while giving me a lecture on how I shouldn't feel like I have to be polite or put up with obnoxious guys like that. He literally told me he didn't get good vibes from my date and that I really should take the long way home. Freaked me out but I learned my lesson.


----------



## ConanHub

Numb26 said:


> I know this has been mentioned before but why is it socially acceptable for women to come up and touch a man on his biceps or chest, etc. without permission but if a man would do it the same to a woman he would be in trouble?


Since Personal responded, I will give my take.

I actually didn't think much about it for most of my life because it always happened.

After some discussions on TAM including input from women, I examined it and altered my view a little.

The doctor doing my physical, who gave my left biceps a squeeze, was totally out of line but I didn't think about it at the time because it's happened a lot. I've made sure it doesn't happen again.

I think a lot of them do it as sort of an un thought through impulse. I've had several women almost seem surprised and embarrassed that their hand reached out and just did that.

Those examples are kind of rude and I've been doing a good job of avoiding them since discussions here clued me in and I talked with the Mrs. about what she thought.

There is, however, a very classy and ladylike way that women touch men during a conversation that is more of a flat hand/fingertips kind of touch than a grab or squeeze. It doesn't seem offensive at all.

Things have probably changed due to the social climate but I remember seeing lots of men touching women on their arms or shoulders as well.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Personal said:


> No one except you said women stand up in the middle of a room and wave their arms then ask if someone wants to have sex.


Well, that is just a bald-faced lie because I never said they do, and that just proves you didn't read it, but are over here creating a special thread to skewer me over something you imagined. I took that from a post above it on something lateralis said, and I didn't say that they did it. I said but they don't. All this just because you want to enumerate your conquests. Please leave me out of it next time.


----------



## Personal

DownByTheRiver said:


> Well, that is just a bald-faced lie because I never said they do, and that just proves you didn't read it, but are over here creating a special thread to skewer me over something you imagined. I took that from a post above it on something laurentium said, and I didn't say that they did it. I said but they don't. All this just because you want to enumerate your conquests. Please leave me out of it next time.


My statement was in error it was not a lie, I was meaning no one but you "mentioned" it which you did as quoted below. That said thanks for pointing out that another member (not Laurentium as I presume you mistakenly wrote) first mentioned it, since I had missed that. So you were one of two people instead of the only person who mentioned women standing up in a room and waving their arms etc.



LATERILUS79 said:


> Any woman can walk into a crowded place and raise her hand and say “sex, anyone?”. It is that easy. The vast majority of men can’t do this.


Funnily enough I have seen the above claim, rolled out so many times by different men on TAM over the years, when suggesting that women have it easy when seeking sexual partners. Yet there are lots of women both attractive and otherwise, who don't have men falling all over themselves to be with them. Or who have difficulty finding dates, or getting sex and do experienced being rejected and turned down just like men do.

And it isn't always that easy for women to just overtly proposition men and get sex either. Since there are plenty of men, who turn down more blatant offers, for a variety of reasons including being suspicious of the woman's motives.



DownByTheRiver said:


> They need to realize that women don't go and raise their hand asking for sex because sex isn't usually what women want specifically.


That covered this discussion is about the idea that women aren't forward sexually, inspired by your evident disbelief of @Evinrude58's experience when you quoted him in a post that has subsequently been deleted saying "sure".

So feel free to read the first post on this thread, which is the whole catalyst for this discussion, addressing the scepticism from both you and @Diana7, that women approach Evinrude58 for sex. Since it certainly isn't an extraordinary event.


----------



## Enigma32

In Absentia said:


> This market value thing is rather "disturbing"... I never thought in those terms. I was surprised that it even existed. To me people are people.


"People are just people" is the feel-good answer that has nothing at all to do with reality. I am an average guy almost across the board. Average height, average middle class career, average looks, etc. I have a friend who is good looking, 6'5 tall, more educated, and just stupid rich. Now, if he and I suddenly both became single at the same time and decided to start using OLD or even hit a bar looking for ladies one night, which theory do you think would better predict our results? Your "people are people" theory or the idea that various characteristics about a person determine their sexual marketplace value to the opposite sex? Because if people are just people, then he and I would have similar results if we both tried to find a woman. We're both just people, right?


----------



## Diana7

Numb26 said:


> I have had two women actually say to me, "wanna have sex", so at this point it's not shocking anymore.


Just crazy. Where was that? Do you think it depends a lot on where people go, who they mix with, how they dress and present themselves etc?
You sort of expect that to happen in bars, night clubs etc. 

What these women dont get is that if they act that way they will never find a decent guy. Then they will probably moan and complain that there are no decent men around and how they all want one thing.


----------



## Numb26

Enigma32 said:


> "People are just people" is the feel-good answer that has nothing at all to do with reality. I am an average guy almost across the board. Average height, average middle class career, average looks, etc. I have a friend who is good looking, 6'5 tall, more educated, and just stupid rich. Now, if he and I suddenly both became single at the same time and decided to start using OLD or even hit a bar looking for ladies one night, which theory do you think would better predict our results? Your "people are people" theory or the idea that various characteristics about a person determine their sexual marketplace value to the opposite sex? Because if people are just people, then he and I would have similar results if we both tried to find a woman. We're both just people, right?


Plain truth is, looks matter. It's a genetic thing.


----------



## Numb26

Diana7 said:


> Just crazy. Where was that?


First time was right after my divorce was final, she heard and cornered me at a party. LOL

The second was in a bar on a business trip to DC.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Personal said:


> My statement was in error it was not a lie, I was meaning no one but you "mentioned" it which you did as quoted below. That said thanks for pointing out that another member (not Laurentium as I presume you mistakenly wrote) first mentioned it, since I had missed that. So you were one of two people instead of the only person who mentioned women standing up in a room and waving their arms etc.
> 
> 
> 
> Funnily enough I have seen the above claim, rolled out so many times by different men on TAM over the years, when suggesting that women have it easy when seeking sexual partners. Yet there are lots of women both attractive and otherwise, who don't have men falling all over themselves to be with them. Or who have difficulty finding dates, or getting sex and do experienced being rejected and turned down just like men do.
> 
> And it isn't always that easy for women to just overtly proposition men and get sex either. Since there are plenty of men, who turn down more blatant offers, for a variety of reasons including being suspicious of the woman's motives.
> 
> 
> 
> That covered this discussion is about the idea that women aren't forward sexually, inspired by your evident disbelief of @Evinrude58's experience when you quoted him in a post that has subsequently been deleted saying "sure".
> 
> So feel free to read the first post on this thread, which is the whole catalyst for this discussion, addressing the scepticism from both you and @Diana7, that women approach Evinrude58 for sex. Since it certainly isn't an extraordinary event.


Well, unlike you and evinrude, I had read everything and haven't been making things up. You still don't get it. What you're saying the skepticism is about and what it's actually about are two different things because you didn't read the thing and then just decided to come over here and make a big deal out of thin air. And now you're trying to do damage control by pretending anyone ever said women don't flirt or pick up guys. Which was never the subject of that post you drug over here from another thread. But you just now figured that out


----------



## Enigma32

Numb26 said:


> Plain truth is, looks matter. It's a genetic thing.


True story. I never will understand why so many people clutch their pearls at the idea that some people simply have a higher value (generally speaking) to the opposite sex. I mean, if their theory were true, Hollywood wouldn't need to pay the likes of Channing Tatum millions to do those Magic Mike movies that so many ladies seem to enjoy. If people are just people, why not just give me a call? I'll do the movies for a cool million. Maybe it's because Hollywood understands that literally millions of ladies around the country wanna bang that dude and I'm basically just average? That's why, as much as it seems to bother some ladies, men will stick many women into a "fun only" category when he thinks he can do better than her. It's the male version of the friendzone....the FWB-zone.


----------



## Diana7

Evinrude58 said:


> I’m not married, D7.
> I have actually had women tell me right away they want a man that’s healthy and likes sex, and that they expect an active sex life. And I’ve had them literally try to take my clothes off on a first date.
> I’ve had them reach over and cop a feel, etc.
> All kinds of things that normally people say men do—- women are doing.
> 
> I don’t usually hang around with the fast ones unless they’re super hot, which does happen.
> I suppose what I’m saying is that I’ve has lots of different dates, and almost invariably these ladies are far more eager to get my pants off than I am theirs in most cases. I don’t go around having sex with every woman I meet, but most are interested and most make it clear they want sex. My experience is that women from 35 and up are like 18 yr old boys— starving for sex.


Ok so it's understandable in a dating situation. I get that. I thought you meant they literally come up to you in the street and ask you for sex without knowing a thing about you. I get that some people expect sex on a first date. 
Seems crazy to me when you have no idea what a person is like yet are prepared to go off somewhere and put yourself in danger.


----------



## Diana7

Enigma32 said:


> True story. I never will understand why so many people clutch their pearls at the idea that some people simply have a higher value (generally speaking) to the opposite sex. I mean, if their theory were true, Hollywood wouldn't need to pay the likes of Channing Tatum millions to do those Magic Mike movies that so many ladies seem to enjoy. If people are just people, why not just give me a call? I'll do the movies for a cool million. Maybe it's because Hollywood understands that literally millions of ladies around the country wanna bang that dude and I'm basically just average? That's why, as much as it seems to bother some ladies, men will stick many women into a "fun only" category when he thinks he can do better than her. It's the male version of the friendzone....the FWB-zone.


Who are these random people who 'clutch their pearls'. Never seen anyone do that in my life.


----------



## minimalME

Diana7 said:


> Who are these random people who 'clutch their pearls'. Never seen anyone do that in my life.


I had to look it up. 😏


----------



## ConanHub

Numb26 said:


> Plain truth is, looks matter. It's a genetic thing.


I don't think anyone will deny there are advantages and disadvantages that everyone deals with.

I think the tipping point or where people start to "jump the shark" is attempting to simplify people down to commodities.

That leads to attitudes about certain people being viewed as usable and disposable.

"I'm horny so I fd an "ugly" chick and ghosted her."

God help the ass hole who tried to treat a friend or family member that way. His grin wouldn't be lasting very fing long.

I'm not boasting.

I called a guy out, who had treated more than one woman I knew like trash, in front of coworkers and associates during a social gathering and humiliated and berated him, goading him to try something.

He chose "the better part of valor" and slunk out with his head low.

He isn't alone. I've insulted and belittled quite a few would be **** heads who thought they could treat women like a used burger wrapper.

What's funny is seeing all their bull crap bluster disappear like a fart in the wind when I call them to cash the check their mouths are writing.


----------



## Numb26

ConanHub said:


> I don't think anyone will deny there are advantages and disadvantages that everyone deals with.
> 
> I think the tipping point or where people start to "jump the shark" is attempting to simplify people down to commodities.
> 
> That leads to attitudes about certain people being viewed as usable and disposable.
> 
> "I'm horny so I fd an "ugly" chick and ghosted her."
> 
> God help the ass hole who tried to treat a friend or family member that way. His grin wouldn't be lasting very fing long.
> 
> I'm not boasting.
> 
> I called a guy out, who had treated more than one woman I knew like trash, in front of coworkers and associates during a social gathering and humiliated and berated him, goading him to try something.
> 
> He chose "the better part of valor" and slunk out with his head low.
> 
> He isn't alone. I've insulted and belittled quite a few would be **** heads who thought they could treat women like a used burger wrapper.
> 
> What's funny is seeing all their bull crap bluster disappear like a fart in the wind when I call them to cash the check their mouths are writing.


Though we normally agree on things, I am going to have to call you out on this one. Do you "call out" women who do the same exact thing? Because let me tell you, I have been on the other side of this scenario.

In the dating world I have learned that there is such a thing as commodities. And if people are not looking for a LTR it is a smart idea to use what commodities you have to your advantage. This doesn't mean treat people like crap because that is a whole nother thread. 

As cruel as it sounds, it is much easier to pick up a less attractive person then it is to pick up an attractive person because they have the ability to be more selective. It's just facts.


----------



## Lila

Numb26 said:


> Plain truth is, looks matter. It's a genetic thing.


Most heterosexual women understand this all too well. It's drilled into our heads that men are visual creatures and that they prioritize looks above all else. I get that. What I don't understand, and I have asked @Enigma32 to explain which he's failed to do, is what he thinks we should do with the "ugly" women since they are worthless because they lack the one quality that makes them worthy of male attention?


----------



## Numb26

Lila said:


> Most heterosexual women understand this all too well. It's drilled into our heads that men are visual creatures and that they prioritize looks above all else. I get that. What I don't understand, and I have asked @Enigma32 to explain which he's failed to do, is what he thinks we should do with the "ugly" women since they are worthless because they lack the one quality that makes them worthy of male attention?


We don't have to do anything with them. It is up to them to decide what and who they want to be with. As a man who considers himself low on the "Looks rating system" I have never expected to have a beautiful woman be interested in my looks alone. I just have to work harder. That's life.
Initial attraction is based on looks. It takes hard work to get past that.


----------



## Enigma32

Lila said:


> Most heterosexual women understand this all too well. It's drilled into our heads that men are visual creatures and that they prioritize looks above all else. I get that. What I don't understand, and I have asked @Enigma32 to explain which he's failed to do, is what he thinks we should do with the "ugly" women since they are worthless because they lack the one quality that makes them worthy of male attention?


"We" don't decide anything. I am not some higher power that decides how each individual should conduct their lives. All I am doing here is sharing information based on my observations over the years. What people do with that information is up to them. Also, your straw man arguments are out of control here. I never called anyone worthless and I never said that physical attractiveness was the sole quality men looked for in women.

I will say this much. If a person, male or female, is having problems attracting the type of partner they prefer, then they should raise their sexual marketplace value in order to find more success. If you're the woman who can't see to find a guy that will commit, then do something about it. If you're the guy that can't get a date...same advice.


----------



## Lila

Numb26 said:


> We don't have to do anything with them. *It is up to them to decide what and who they want to be with*. As a man who considers himself low on the "Looks rating system" I have never expected to have a beautiful woman be interested in my looks alone. I just have to work harder. That's life.
> Initial attraction is based on looks. It takes hard work to get past that.


But according to Enigma32's theory these women do not get to decide anything. They are "ugly" and therefore worthless to men. Do you think we should tell them to not waste their time seeking a man to enter into a relationship because , well, men don't want an "ugly" woman for a relationship?


----------



## In Absentia

Enigma32 said:


> "People are just people" is the feel-good answer that has nothing at all to do with reality.


Well, maybe it's your reality. I don't base my choices on "market values", shallow values for shallow people.


----------



## Numb26

Lila said:


> But according to Enigma32's theory these women do not get to decide anything. They are "ugly" and therefore worthless to men. Do you think we should tell them to not waste their time seeking a man to enter into a relationship because , well, men don't want an "ugly" woman for a relationship?


According to many I am "ugly" and therefore my worth is LESS to many, many women. It does work both ways. I have learned not to waste my time seeking relationships with women who don't want to be with me because they value looks as important just as some men do. And I don't take it personally.
I don't belive it's a man/woman thing, it's a human thing.


----------



## ConanHub

Numb26 said:


> Though we normally agree on things, I am going to have to call you out on this one. Do you "call out" women who do the same exact thing? Because let me tell you, I have been on the other side of this scenario.
> 
> In the dating world I have learned that there is such a thing as commodities. And if people are not looking for a LTR it is a smart idea to use what commodities you have to your advantage. This doesn't mean treat people like crap because that is a whole nother thread.
> 
> As cruel as it sounds, it is much easier to pick up a less attractive person then it is to pick up an attractive person because they have the ability to be more selective. It's just facts.


I know how you have been treated and it's equally unacceptable.

I can't treat women as I do men but I have a sharp enough wit and tongue to help "guide" b1tchy women toward a better path.

I also purposely burned a b1tches food at a party I was cooking for. She was a former cheerleader for a professional football team and looked as you can imagine. Burnt food and a couple of strategic comments had her holding her tongue a little more for the rest of the evening. She left early.


----------



## Numb26

ConanHub said:


> I know how you have been treated and it's equally unacceptable.
> 
> I can't treat women as I do men but I have a sharp enough wit and tongue to help "guide" b1tchy women toward a better path.
> 
> I also purposely burned a b1tches food at a party I was cooking for. She was a former cheerleader for a professional football team and looked as you can imagine. Burnt food and a couple of strategic comments had her holding her tongue a little more for the rest of the evening. She left early.


I should learn how to do that


----------



## In Absentia

Numb26 said:


> I should learn how to do that


I can burn food easily...


----------



## ConanHub

Numb26 said:


> As cruel as it sounds, it is much easier to pick up a less attractive person then it is to pick up an attractive person because they have the ability to be more selective. It's just facts.


I'm not arguing against this point at all. I have never said or believed it's an even playing field, especially after being corrected a few years ago by @Lila LoL! I was a bit more clueless and idealistic back then.

People as straight up commodities just doesn't work and leads to cruelty.

I also don't think it's cruel for someone to just have sex with someone who is willing as long as they are upfront that's all it will be.

I would suggest resisting whatever urge could compell someone to have sex with someone they would treat as disposable and not even smile at in public.


----------



## Lila

Enigma32 said:


> "We" don't decide anything. I am not some higher power that decides how each individual should conduct their lives. All I am doing here is sharing information based on my observations over the years. What people do with that information is up to them. Also, your straw man arguments are out of control here. *I never called anyone worthless and I never said that physical attractiveness was the sole quality men looked for in women*.



It's not a straw man. These are the words you used. 




Enigma32 said:


> No one wants to let the world know they had some ugly girl in the back seat of their car...


 

When you say stuff like this, without knowing a single thing about that "ugly" person, then yes, you are making physical attractiveness the sole quality on which you judged that woman. She could be Mother Theresa personified but she's "ugly" so no man wants it known they hooked up with her. That's absolutely making her worthless. Why? Because she doesn't have the one thing that makes her worthy of being acknowledged. 




> I will say this much. *If a person, male or female, is having problems attracting the type of partner they prefer*, then they should raise their sexual marketplace value in order to find more success. If you're the woman who can't see to find a guy that will commit, then do something about it. If you're the guy that can't get a date...same advice.


As to attracting the type of partner they prefer, you've basically said that men, as a whole, do not prefer "ugly" women. As @Numb26 said, it's genetics. So my question is what do we, as a society, tell these poor young women who through no fault of their own, won't be able to attract the male of the species?


----------



## Numb26

ConanHub said:


> I'm not arguing against this point at all. I have never said or believed it's an even playing field, especially after being corrected a few years ago by @Lila LoL! I was a bit more clueless and idealistic back then.
> 
> People as straight up commodities just doesn't work and leads to cruelty.
> 
> I also don't think it's cruel for someone to just have sex with someone who is willing as long as they are upfront that's all it will be.
> 
> I would suggest resisting whatever urge could compell someone to have sex with someone they would treat as disposable and not even smile at in public.


I have seen that cruelty. Remember the story about my foremans wife and the women talking about me? LOL


----------



## Lila

Numb26 said:


> According to many I am "ugly" and therefore my worth is LESS to many, many women. It does work both ways. I have learned not to waste my time seeking relationships with women who don't want to be with me because they value looks as important just as some men do. And I don't take it personally.
> I don't belive it's a man/woman thing, it's a human thing.


Hold on there @Numb26 . Isn't this one of the "differences between men and women" issues? Isn't the argument that women focus on other qualities such as financial stability, strength of character, and fatherly traits to pursue relationships with men? It's not about the physical?


----------



## ConanHub

Numb26 said:


> I have seen that cruelty. Remember the story about my foremans wife and the women talking about me? LOL


Of course I remember. I know how you have been treated and I would ask you to trust me that if I was in your circle, the "sword" of Conan would have not left that woman unmarked.😉


----------



## ccpowerslave

Lila said:


> So my question is what do we, as a society, tell these poor young women who through no fault of their own, won't be able to attract the male of the species?


The Trigglypuffs of the world can still hook it up I suspect.

I was just at the beach last weekend and there was a dude probably 350lbs with a huge gut and he had two similarly sized bikini chicks (literally) with him. I was like damn you go playa!!!


----------



## Numb26

Lila said:


> Hold on there @Numb26 . Isn't this one of the "differences between men and women" issues? Isn't the argument that women focus on other qualities such as financial stability, strength of character, and fatherly traits to pursue relationships with men? It's not about the physical?


I am not in that group of believers


----------



## Numb26

I believe initial attraction is purely physical. It's not "Love at first sight" it's "Lust at first sight"


----------



## Diana7

minimalME said:


> I had to look it up. 😏


Not sure I even know anyone who has pearls, let alone wears any. 🤔


----------



## Enigma32

Lila said:


> It's not a straw man. These are the words you used.


Looks are not a matter of just being ugly or not. Your thinking is far too black and white. When I said that a guy doesn't want people to know he hooked up with an ugly girl, I mean ugly _to him_ and that doesn't mean she will be ugly to everyone. To simplify, if the guy is a 7/10 and she is a 4/10, he's probably going to consider her ugly.



> When you say stuff like this, without knowing a single thing about that "ugly" person, then yes, you are making physical attractiveness the sole quality on which you judged that woman. She could be Mother Theresa personified but she's "ugly" so no man wants it known they hooked up with her. That's absolutely making her worthless. Why? Because she doesn't have the one thing that makes her worthy of being acknowledged.


Physical attractiveness gets your foot in the door but it isn't everything. However, there does need to be at the very least, a baseline of attractiveness in order to date someone, or do you disagree with that? Do you suggest that we operate on a sexual socialist system where everyone is considered equal from a looks perspective? Force men to date women they aren't attracted to in order to spare the feelings of those ladies?



> As to attracting the type of partner they prefer, you've basically said that men, as a whole, do not prefer "ugly" women. As @Numb26 said, it's genetics. So my question is what do we, as a society, tell these poor young women who through no fault of their own, won't be able to attract the male of the species?


They should focus on attracting the males that they can actually get. Or they can do things to make themselves more attractive since genetics doesn't determine everything. Hit the gym, dress better, etc.


----------



## ccpowerslave

Diana7 said:


> Not sure I even know anyone who has pearls, let alone wears any. 🤔


I gave my wife a pearl necklace and then later some matching pearl earrings.


----------



## Numb26

ccpowerslave said:


> I gave my wife a pearl necklace and then later some matching pearl earrings.


I took this in an extremely dirty way! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Personal

Lila said:


> Isn't this one of the "differences between men and women" issues?


In the big scheme of things it seems that men and women aren't especially different behaviourally.

*Cordelia Fine: ‘If women aren’t sweet, then they’re called *****es’* - The Guardian

^^^ To access that link you will have to fill in the itch bit of the word with the second letter in the alphabet before it, where it is censored by this site on the URL.

*The Science Of Gender: No, Men Aren't From Mars And Women From Venus* - NPR

And having read them, I encourage you to read the following books Delusions of gender and Testosterone Rex by Cordelia Fine as well.


----------



## Diana7

Numb26 said:


> According to many I am "ugly" and therefore my worth is LESS to many, many women. It does work both ways. I have learned not to waste my time seeking relationships with women who don't want to be with me because they value looks as important just as some men do. And I don't take it personally.
> I don't belive it's a man/woman thing, it's a human thing.


I place great value on character, values and personality. You could present me with the best looking guy ever and I doubt I would have the slightest interest. 
What a man is like makes him far more or less attractive to me.


----------



## ccpowerslave

Numb26 said:


> I took this in an extremely dirty way! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


That was intentional since it was @Diana7 however it was actually a Mikimoto strand.


----------



## Diana7

ccpowerslave said:


> I gave my wife a pearl necklace and then later some matching pearl earrings.


I don't like the look of pearls so they are not for me. If I was given some I doubt I would ever wear them. 
Different tastes.


----------



## Numb26

Diana7 said:


> I place great value on character, values and personality. You could present me with the best looking guy ever and I doubt I would have the slightest interest.
> What a man is like makes him far more or less attractive to me.


But what about initial attraction? You cannot know anything about a person so it follows that it would be physical attraction that draws you to someone


----------



## Al_Bundy

ccpowerslave said:


> I don’t know but I have never had a woman do this to me where I was thinking “yuck” so please carry on.


I have. There seems to be an urban legend about how guys with dark skin love obese women. So some of them will waddle over and start hitting on you. On top of that, I've been cursed out for not reciprocating the attraction.

Also "ugly" women are like short guys. You can't change your face or height but you can control what kind of body you have. Pretty much anyone can have a hot body, it just takes work.


----------



## pastasauce79

Lila said:


> Most heterosexual women understand this all too well. It's drilled into our heads that men are visual creatures and that they prioritize looks above all else. I get that. What I don't understand, and I have asked @Enigma32 to explain which he's failed to do, is what he thinks we should do with the "ugly" women since they are worthless because they lack the one quality that makes them worthy of male attention?


I'm a woman and I don't see it that way.

I'm not Angelina jolie. I know my place in the food chain. I know who could be a potential date and who is out of my league. The same happens when I pick a man. I'm not going to pick a man who I don't find attractive enough. I don't know what less attractive people do, but I have some shallow standards that I can't deny. At the same time, my beauty standards could be very different from everyone else's. Maybe I've picked someone who is ugly (according to other people) because beauty is in the eye of the beholder. 

I also think it takes two to tango. Most people know what they're getting themselves into. I think Enigma is free to choose to date or have flings with women according to his own standards of beauty. I'm sure you have your own standards, and I'm sure you've turned men down based on your own physical opinion of them. Women are visual beings too. 

I don't feel offended if pretty men think I'm ugly. I know my place. I don't expect them to like me anyway!


----------



## Blondilocks

For every pot there is a lid.


----------



## Evinrude58

Cici1990 said:


> A COUPLE OF HUNDRED air hostesses? Jeez, what do you look like????


No ****. I’m a a straight guy and want to see what it takes to get this kind of attention.

yes, when I said women asked for sex pretty regularly, I didn’t mean they were broadcasting across a crowded room “hey, you want to screw???”

However, I am saying it’s come up that they wanted it too darn quickly, to the point I thought they were far too promiscuous to be risking touching….
And I’ve asked for a picture the first time myself and a lady conversed, countless times in OLD, and received either butt naked or vagina pics……. I have to specify that I want a picture in a dress or whatever now.
to me that’s asking for sex.

As I’ve said, I am no Cici or Oersonal in the looks category. It’s just been my experience in the last few years that women in general are wanting Alex just as badly as men and willing to make that known.

I wasn’t saying that women walking down the street are constantly badgering me for sex.


----------



## Diana7

Numb26 said:


> But what about initial attraction? You cannot know anything about a person so it follows that it would be physical attraction that draws you to someone


We met on line. I was very attracted to him by what he had written in his initial dating site information and this increased after we had sent many emails. I didn't even see a photo of him till after we had spoken on the phone. I also loved his voice and his slight Aussie accent.
When we met there was that chemistry, I just knew there would be. Not sure how much of that was physical and how much was who he was, but a man's character is so important to me.


----------



## minimalME

Numb26 said:


> But what about initial attraction? You cannot know anything about a person so it follows that it would be physical attraction that draws you to someone


This is what I was thinking.

I don't date anymore, but in terms of general attraction, there's a lot to be said for staying in shape.


----------



## Blondilocks

Evinrude58 said:


> women in general are wanting Alex


Who is Alex?


----------



## Diana7

pastasauce79 said:


> I'm a woman and I don't see it that way.
> 
> I'm not Angelina jolie. I know my place in the food chain. I know who could be a potential date and who is out of my league. The same happens when I pick a man. I'm not going to pick a man who I don't find attractive enough. I don't know what less attractive people do, but I have some shallow standards that I can't deny. At the same time, my beauty standards could be very different from everyone else's. Maybe I've picked someone who is ugly (according to other people) because beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
> 
> I also think it takes two to tango. Most people know what they're getting themselves into. I think Enigma is free to choose to date or have flings with women according to his own standards of beauty. I'm sure you have your own standards, and I'm sure you've turned men down based on your own physical opinion of them. Women are visual beings too.
> 
> I don't feel offended if pretty men think I'm ugly. I know my place. I don't expect them to like me anyway!


Strangely enough I don't find Angelina Jolie at all attractive. 
Not an attractive character either. 
I get your point though.


----------



## Personal

Evinrude58 said:


> As I’ve said, I am no Cici or Oersonal in the looks category.


I'm not anymore either now that I am fat and 50.


----------



## Enigma32

pastasauce79 said:


> I'm a woman and I don't see it that way.
> 
> I'm not Angelina jolie. I know my place in the food chain. I know who could be a potential date and who is out of my league. The same happens when I pick a man. I'm not going to pick a man who I don't find attractive enough. I don't know what less attractive people do, but I have some shallow standards that I can't deny. At the same time, my beauty standards could be very different from everyone else's. Maybe I've picked someone who is ugly (according to other people) because beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
> 
> I also think it takes two to tango. Most people know what they're getting themselves into. I think Enigma is free to choose to date or have flings with women according to his own standards of beauty. I'm sure you have your own standards, and I'm sure you've turned men down based on your own physical opinion of them. Women are visual beings too.
> 
> I don't feel offended if pretty men think I'm ugly. I know my place. I don't expect them to like me anyway!


Thank you for the rational post.


----------



## Blondilocks

Personal said:


> I'm not anymore either now that I am fat and 50.


What? You mean you're up to a buck twenty?


----------



## Diana7

Evinrude58 said:


> No ****. I’m a a straight guy and want to see what it takes to get this kind of attention.
> 
> yes, when I said women asked for sex pretty regularly, I didn’t mean they were broadcasting across a crowded room “hey, you want to screw???”
> 
> However, I am saying it’s come up that they wanted it too darn quickly, to the point I thought they were far too promiscuous to be risking touching….
> And I’ve asked for a picture the first time myself and a lady conversed, countless times in OLD, and received either butt naked or vagina pics……. I have to specify that I want a picture in a dress or whatever now.
> to me that’s asking for sex.
> 
> As I’ve said, I am no Cici or Oersonal in the looks category. It’s just been my experience in the last few years that women in general are wanting Alex just as badly as men and willing to make that known.
> 
> I wasn’t saying that women walking down the street are constantly badgering me for sex.


To be fair we have no idea what Cici or personal look like. Also we are all different in what we find attractive. 
As I just said on another post, many seem to think Angelina Jolie is very attractive. I think she is quite weird looking and looks as if she starves herself. Very unappealing. Someone like Jennifer Aniston is far prettier.


----------



## Al_Bundy

Blondilocks said:


> Who is Alex?


I think he works in Marketing along with Kevin in Sales and Steve in Accounting. But I could be wrong.


----------



## Evinrude58

Diana7 said:


> Ok so it's understandable in a dating situation. I get that. I thought you meant they literally come up to you in the street and ask you for sex without knowing a thing about you. I get that some people expect sex on a first date.
> Seems crazy to me when you have no idea what a person is like yet are prepared to go off somewhere and put yourself in danger.


You have no idea the crazy stuff women and men do regarding sex, most likely.
Believe me, it shocks me too.


----------



## Numb26

Al_Bundy said:


> I think he works in Marketing along with Kevin in Sales and Steve in Accounting. But I could be wrong.


Isn't he Chad's cousin?


----------



## Personal

Personal said:


> I'm not anymore either now that I am fat and 50.


That said getting a snazzy haircut after being in lockdown, is doing wonders for me.


----------



## Numb26

Diana7 said:


> To be fair we have no idea what Cici or personal look like. Also we are all different in what we find attractive.
> As I just said on another post, many seem to think Angelina Jolie is very attractive. I think she is quite weird looking and looks as if she starves herself. Very unappealing. Someone like Jennifer Aniston is far prettier.


Only thought she was pretty "Billy Bob" era


----------



## Numb26

Personal said:


> That said getting a snazzy haircut after being in lockdown, is doing wonders for me.


Wish it were that easy for me.


----------



## Evinrude58

Diana7 said:


> I place great value on character, values and personality. You could present me with the best looking guy ever and I doubt I would have the slightest interest.
> What a man is like makes him far more or less attractive to me.


Then you are the exception, not the rule.
Physical appearance, social status, and wealth are the most important qualities in a man to the majority of ladies in my experience . Certainly if a long term relationship is part of the question, personality, character, sexual compatibility are important.


----------



## Al_Bundy

Evinrude58 said:


> Then you are the exception, not the rule.
> Physical appearance, social status, and wealth are the most important qualities in a man to the majority of ladies in my experience . Certainly if a long term relationship is part of the question, personality, character, sexual compatibility are important.


I think age is a factor too. I see my former classmates on social saying similar stuff now but I remember them in their 20s and early 30s when their attitude was much different. Not saying D7 is in that boat, just speaking generally.


----------



## Al_Bundy

Personal said:


> I'm not anymore either now that I am fat and 50.


Never too late to hit the gym. As Robert Frank would say, when you're jacked n juicy, the women get loosey.


----------



## Cletus

Enigma32 said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is it possible that th company you keep is skewing your perspective?
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, anything is possible. In this instance though...highly unlikely. Hang out at the bar around closing time and you will see a few examples of what I am talking about here.
Click to expand...

Can't remember the last time I was closing down a bar.


----------



## Cici1990

Personal said:


> I'm not anymore either now that I am fat and 50.


And to be perfectly honest I don’t even look like Cici anymore now that I was awake all night taking care of 2 babies and an orphaned kitten. Yikes, I think the mirror shrieked right along with me this morning. 

But really, this thread makes me feel like much less of a desperate sl*t than I thought I was. Maybe if I’d spent all of these years as a single lady I’d be one who regularly propositions random men out and about in every day life, but something tells me no. I (used to) flirt with ANYONE for sh!ts and giggles but am very selective looks wise (yep, shallow as heck over here) with who I’ll sleep with. I mean I guess if I was a single air hostess and you were super attractive, charismatic, and looked rich I’d slip you my number, but you’d have to be all 3. No shame to the single women who proposition men.


----------



## Cici1990

Blondilocks said:


> Who is Alex?


I know a really hot guy named Alex and women throw themselves at him regularly. True story.


----------



## Personal

Diana7 said:


> To be fair we have no idea what Cici or personal look like. Also we are all different in what we find attractive.


Through accident of genetics I was a very handsome chap (beautiful people™) as a young man. Yet I am not (beautiful people™) anymore, since time marches on and beauty is always fleeting.

Yet all of us are so much more than just how we look anyway.


----------



## Lila

Enigma32 said:


> When I said that a guy doesn't want people to know he hooked up with an ugly girl, I mean ugly _to him_ and that doesn't mean she will be ugly to everyone.


That's not what you said. I'll leave it at that.



> To simplify, if the guy is a 7/10 and she is a 4/10, he's probably going to consider her ugly.


The guy I'm with now is a 10/10 in the "beautiful" category for his age and probably an 8/10 over all ages. I'm probably a 4/10 I'm comparison. I don't know whether he thinks I'm physically "ugly" but he still pursued me. He's totally different from what you describe in your posts. That's why I'm asking you to elaborate. 




Enigma32 said:


> However, there does need to be at the very least, a baseline of attractiveness in order to date someone, or do you disagree with that? Do you suggest that we operate on a sexual socialist system where everyone is considered equal from a looks perspective? Force men to date women they aren't attracted to in order to spare the feelings of those ladies?


It's interesting you bring up sexual socialism and forcing men to date women they aren't attracted to. Isn't that what the guys who complain about women and their lofty standards want? I think I've heard you mention the 300+ lbs women who feel entitled to fit and handsome men. 

I personnally think that men would be better off if they stopped thinking with their ****s and more with their brains when it comes to mate selection. 




Enigma32 said:


> Or they can do things to make themselves more attractive since genetics doesn't determine everything. Hit the gym, dress better, etc.


Sometimes, even skinny women are ugly. I'm all for cosmetic surgery to improve physical appearance but for some, it's either unavailable, unaffordable, or not a good option.


----------



## Personal

Cici1990 said:


> I (used to) flirt with ANYONE for sh!ts and giggles but am very selective looks wise (yep, shallow as heck over here) with who I’ll sleep with.


And that's another thing, it isn't just some men who are selective when it comes to looks. My wife still frequently tells me, if I wasn't good looking she wouldn't have asked me out on a date in the first place.

Yet looks certainly aren't everything.


----------



## Personal

Lila said:


> I don't know whether he thinks I'm physically "ugly" but he still pursued me. He's totally different from what you describe in your posts. That's why I'm asking you to elaborate.


I've no doubt the guy who you are with, pursued you simply because he likes you and finds you attractive.


----------



## Cletus

Personal said:


> That said getting a snazzy haircut after being in lockdown, is doing wonders for me.


You have hair? Luxury!


----------



## Numb26

Lila said:


> I personnally think that men would be better off if they stopped thinking with their ****s and more with their brains when it comes to mate selection.


I would like to agree with you but biology doesn't make blood rush to a man's brain when aroused.


----------



## Personal

Cletus said:


> You have hair? Luxury!


That's another accident of genetics as well.

That said my wife often tells me she will dump me if I ever start going bald (because she thinks bald men are ugly). Poor woman, I wonder if she realises she's gonna be stuck with me for the long haul.


----------



## Blondilocks

Lila said:


> I'm probably a 4/10 I'm comparison.


Forgive me, Lila, I'm beginning to suspect you suffer from body dysmorphic disorder. There isn't a person on the planet who would say you are a 4/10.


----------



## ccpowerslave

I can say I never had a stewardess grab onto me except for the last flight I took where she wanted to look out the window to see the smoke from the fires. 

I was thinking about how inappropriate it was the entire time and when I got to the hotel I took a Silkwood shower.



😉


----------



## Cletus

Lila said:


> I personnally think that men would be better off if they stopped thinking with their ****s and more with their brains when it comes to mate selection.


It is my personally indefensible opinion (I have no data - only a hunch) that this is the root of most of the red pill problem. Men in a recurring horror nightmare largely of their own making.


----------



## Cletus

Blondilocks said:


> Forgive me, Lila, I'm beginning to suspect you suffer from body dysmorphic disorder. There isn't a person on the planet who would say you are a 4/10.


Based on that avatar, I'm going to agree? I think?


----------



## Blondilocks

Personal said:


> That's another accident of genetics as well.
> 
> *That said my wife often tells me she will dump me i*f I ever start going bald (because she thinks bald men are ugly). Poor woman, I wonder if she realises she's gonna be stuck with me for the long haul.


She's kidding. You couldn't beat her off with a stick.


----------



## Blondilocks

Cletus said:


> Based on that avatar, I'm going to agree? I think?


Do you remember her old avatar? Very nice and easy on the eyes.


----------



## Cletus

Personal said:


> That's another accident of genetics as well.


My brother, a year younger, has always been and will always be more attractive than me. My current wife even did a double take the first time she saw him shirtless mowing the lawn. 

So while I'm not Quasimodo, no woman whom I did not already know has ever made it clear that hooking up with me was even on her radar - unless I'm too far out on the spectrum to notice .


----------



## Cletus

Blondilocks said:


> Do you remember her old avatar? Very nice and easy on the eyes.


No, but I imagine my old avatar would have approved!


----------



## Blondilocks

ccpowerslave said:


> I can say I never had a stewardess grab onto me except for the last flight I took where she wanted to look out the window to see the smoke from the fires.
> 
> I was thinking about how inappropriate it was the entire time and when I got to the hotel I took a Silkwood shower.
> 
> 
> 
> 😉


Wouldn't a cold shower have suited you better?


----------



## Blondilocks

Cletus said:


> No, but I imagine my old avatar would have approved!


Your old avatar wouldn't have been allowed in the building.


----------



## Cletus

Blondilocks said:


> Your old avatar wouldn't have been allowed in the building.


Checkmate.


----------



## ConanHub

Blondilocks said:


> Forgive me, Lila, I'm beginning to suspect you suffer from body dysmorphic disorder. There isn't a person on the planet who would say you are a 4/10.


I'm not rating her but I would have considered dating her.

She reminds me of the girl that took me to my first prom only cuter.😊


----------



## Numb26

ConanHub said:


> I'm not rating her but I would have considered dating her.
> 
> She reminds me of the girl that took me to my first prom only cuter.😊


Flattery will get you everywhere. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Blondilocks

Cletus said:


> Checkmate.


Ack! I'm beggin' ya, dude - bring back the spaghetti monster.


----------



## Al_Bundy

Numb26 said:


> I would like to agree with you but biology doesn't make blood rush to a man's brain when aroused.


It's easy to say that to guys, imagine joining a women's facebook group and telling them if they would think with their brains instead of their nappy dugout they'd be way better off.


----------



## Cletus

Blondilocks said:


> Ack! I'm beggin' ya, dude - bring back the spaghetti monster.


I was having trouble deciding which to prefer. Thanks for helping!

I'll always think of you like this -


----------



## Numb26

Al_Bundy said:


> It's easy to say that to guys, imagine joining a women's facebook group and telling them if they would think with their brains instead of their nappy dugout they'd be way better off.


Can't point out their sexism now. That would make you the sexist!


----------



## Blondilocks

Cletus said:


> I was having trouble deciding which to prefer. Thanks for helping!
> 
> I'll always think of you like this -
> 
> View attachment 79317


😂 You've been spying on me!


----------



## Lila

Blondilocks said:


> Forgive me, Lila, I'm beginning to suspect you suffer from body dysmorphic disorder. There isn't a person on the planet who would say you are a 4/10.


No body dysphormia but what I should have said was I'm a 4/10 compared to him. He's definitely the "pretty one" in our relationship and you'd never know it from talking to him. He's the most humble man I know when it comes to his appearance. 

I will say this, I used to be more open minded about physical appearance when it came to the kind of men I dated. I was open to looking beyond the physical and wait for chemistry to build. Unfortunately I wasn't afforded the same in return sooo......I'm now an entitled ***** 😉.


----------



## Cletus

Lila said:


> I will say this, I used to be more open minded about physical appearance when it came to the kind of men I dated. I was open to looking beyond the physical and wait for chemistry to build. Unfortunately I wasn't afforded the same in return sooo......I'm now an entitled *** 😉.


Yes, but how long from the time you first laid eyes on him until you offered to ****? How many minutes?


----------



## Numb26

Lila said:


> No body dysphormia but what I should have said was I'm a 4/10 compared to him. He's definitely the "pretty one" in our relationship and you'd never know it from talking to him. He's the most humble man I know when it comes to his appearance.
> 
> I will say this, I used to be more open minded about physical appearance when it came to the kind of men I dated. I was open to looking beyond the physical and wait for chemistry to build. Unfortunately I wasn't afforded the same in return sooo......I'm now an entitled *** 😉.


We all are, whether some chose to admit it or not. Even I have my "type"


----------



## Personal

Blondilocks said:


> Ack! I'm beggin' ya, dude - bring back the spaghetti monster.


I'm more attracted to the old Cletus.


----------



## Lila

Numb26 said:


> I would like to agree with you but biology doesn't make blood rush to a man's brain when aroused.


Understood. And round and round we go.


----------



## Numb26

Lila said:


> Understood. And round and round we go.


And it works the opposite too. There was one woman I knew; so attractive, hair, body, everything. It was like I was a high schooler again. Then when I got to know her.......flacid


----------



## Lila

Al_Bundy said:


> It's easy to say that to guys, imagine joining a women's facebook group and telling them if they would think with their brains instead of their nappy dugout they'd be way better off.



Lol, you must have read my last post to my women's group because that's exactly what I tell young women.


----------



## Lila

Cletus said:


> Yes, but how long from the time you first laid eyes on him until you offered to ****? How many minutes?


27 minutes. Just long enough to touch his arms and chest, grab his junk, and check out the back seat of his truck. 😉


----------



## Al_Bundy

Lila said:


> Lol, you must have read my last post to my women's group because that's exactly what I tell young women.


And that's great because I think women need to hear that, but it's also your group so you can't get kicked out. 

If Numb and I tried that in a single moms group we'd be burned at the stake for witchcraft and general f*ckery.


----------



## Rob_1

DownByTheRiver said:


> Well speaking for all "ugly chicks" out there, thank you from the bottom of our hearts for your kind consideration.


This is what's wrong with people these days. Everything is taken as directed to them. Fat, skinny, short, tall, old, young, ugly, beautiful, sick, mental, no ass, no boobs, glasses, small ****, big ****, tight vagina, loose vagina, gay, not gay, animal lover, not animal lover, hunter, not hunter, vegan, meat eater, black, white, etc., etc., Every **** and Jane is so uptight and have a stick up their asses with just about everything. Pretty soon in this country we all be mutes because nobody will be able to say a word or else. 

Why is it that these days no one can accept and be content with what they are, if you're ugly no one can say anything about ugly people because god forbid all ugly people around the world will wither and die. I think that most people born after WWII in the English speaking countries have become nothing but self entitled whiners, with very thin skin. When people tell me hey you've gone bold, I don't go about it like the world is ganging up on me just because I not longer can have the long hair I used to have. I take it with a grain of salt and laugh about it myself, instead of getting thin skinned and pointing fingers.


----------



## farsidejunky

Lila said:


> He's welcome to have whatever preferences he wants. But what he said was "*No One [*_referring to all men_*]* wants to let the world know they had some ugly girl in the back seat of their car". What he should say is "*I* don't want to let the world that *I* had some ugly girl in the back seat"
> 
> ETA:. As one of those "ugly" women, I have had no trouble finding men who were both much better looking, more successful, and way better than me in other ways to actually get into relationships, not just be ****ed and chucked. Must be something about me beyond my physical appearance to make me a quality partner. Go figure.


Maybe a bit late to this party, but just because you see yourself as unattractive doesn't make it true. In your case, it's quite the opposite.

The rest of your post I agree with. Certain personality traits transcend appearance, and can lend to people being more attractive than their looks alone would suggest.



Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Lila

Numb26 said:


> And it works the opposite too. There was one woman I knew; so attractive, hair, body, everything. It was like I was a high schooler again. Then when I got to know her.......flacid


 Could it have been you were just nervous around her?


----------



## Cici1990

Lila said:


> Could it have been you were just nervous around her?


Her personality just sucked.


----------



## In Absentia

I can't remember who said it, but I love the concept of "sexual socialism"...


----------



## Blondilocks

Cici1990 said:


> Her personality just sucked.


My what a deep voice you have, Grandma.
Little Red Riding Hood


----------



## Lila

Cici1990 said:


> Her personality just sucked.


I must have missed that story.


----------



## ccpowerslave

Can take hottest lady in the world that is 10/10 and if she opens her mouth and the first sentence coming out has “like” in it, drops by 2-3 points minimum.


----------



## Cici1990

Lila said:


> I must have missed that story.


Well, that was just my interpretation.


----------



## Personal

In Absentia said:


> I can't remember who said it, but I love the concept of "sexual socialism"...


*Why women have better sex under socialism, according to an anthropologist* - Vox

And if you bother wading through all of that article, I will be impressed because I certainly couldn't.

Scratch that one, I think this one is closer to that concept.

Socialism for Sex: The Way of the Future? - The Cut


----------



## Lila

Cici1990 said:


> Well, that was just my interpretation.


Ahh, gotcha.


----------



## Al_Bundy

Personal said:


> *Why women have better sex under socialism, according to an anthropologist* - Vox
> 
> And if you bother wading through all of that article, I will be impressed because I certainly couldn't.


I'll sum up. Free market bad, socialism good. Ironically I doubt the author is giving her book away for free. Hypocrite.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Lila said:


> No body dysphormia but what I should have said was I'm a 4/10 compared to him. He's definitely the "pretty one" in our relationship and you'd never know it from talking to him. He's the most humble man I know when it comes to his appearance.
> 
> I will say this, I used to be more open minded about physical appearance when it came to the kind of men I dated. I was open to looking beyond the physical and wait for chemistry to build. Unfortunately I wasn't afforded the same in return sooo......I'm now an entitled *** 😉.


I suspect you are severely under rating yourself, which is probably another reason you got that pretty boy.


----------



## oldshirt

Personal said:


> .
> 
> And it isn't always that easy for women to just overtly proposition men and get sex either. Since there are plenty of men, who turn down more blatant offers, for a variety of reasons including being suspicious of the woman's motives.


I had to chuckle when I read this, but you are a correct, there is a lot of truth to that statement. 

If some random stranger walked up to me out of the blue and propositioned me, I would be suspicious and assume she was up to something. And quite frankly, the more attractive she was, the more suspicious I would be. 

My very wised old school-marm mother told me once that there are only two kinds of honest women in this world when it comes to sex. One is the woman who wants marriage, a home and family for it. 

...... and the other is the one that asks for cash up front. 

Those are the only two that are being upfront and honest about it. If someone saying something different, she is probably up to something. 

Now I can't say that I completely agree with that 100%. But she does have a good point and the take away is that in real world practice, you have to look for what is behind the offer and what their angle is.


----------



## Personal

Al_Bundy said:


> Never too late to hit the gym. As Robert Frank would say, when you're jacked n juicy, the women get loosey.


Hmmm I already get a tremendous amount of sex.

Note to self: Must eat more chocolate and stay away from the gym.


----------



## Numb26

Lila said:


> Could it have been you were just nervous around her?


No. She was much to ugly on the inside for her out beauty to overcome.


----------



## In Absentia

Personal said:


> *Why women have better sex under socialism, according to an anthropologist* - Vox
> 
> And if you bother wading through all of that article, I will be impressed because I certainly couldn't.
> 
> Scratch that one, I think this one is closer to that concept.
> 
> Socialism for Sex: The Way of the Future? - The Cut


Cheers... some bed-reading to do...  But don't ask me questions tomorrow...


----------



## Rob_1

Numb26 said:


> No. She was much to ugly on the inside for her out beauty to overcome.


@Numb26: dude watch out for what you write. you just wrote that she was ugly. It might not sit well with all the "ugly in the inside" people around the world.


----------



## Numb26

Al_Bundy said:


> Never too late to hit the gym. As Robert Frank would say, when you're jacked n juicy, the women get loosey.


I can definitely confirm this!!


----------



## In Absentia

ccpowerslave said:


> Can take hottest lady in the world that is 10/10 and if she opens her mouth and the first sentence coming out has “like” in it, drops by 2-3 points minimum.


You reminded me of this, some some reason...


----------



## Cletus

ccpowerslave said:


> Can take hottest lady in the world that is 10/10 and if she opens her mouth and the first sentence coming out has “like” in it, drops by 2-3 points minimum.


So a sentence of the form "I like the look of your ****" is an automatic disqualifier? We need to talk.


----------



## Lila

BigDaddyNY said:


> I suspect you are severely under rating yourself, which is probably another reason you got that pretty boy.


This is me being 100% honest. My self rating is based on the experiences I had dating before and after my marriage with other men. And I promise you, none could hold a flame to my SO. I just don't think my SO knows how attractive he truly is. I think it's because he grew up in a religiously conservative environment, got married young (19), and was married a very long time before deciding to break away from his religion and divorce. He wasn't "on the market" for long before meeting me. 

I do think he enjoys being with me and that makes me attractive to him. I bring spice, vibrancy, affection, and humor to his life which I know was missing for many years in his marriage. 

Am I a troll? No but assuming sexual market value is valid, his is definitely much higher than mine.


----------



## farsidejunky

Cletus said:


> So a sentence of the form "I like the look of your ****" is an automatic disqualifier? We need to talk.


Like...did you even understand what he was saying?

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Rob_1

ccpowerslave said:


> Can take hottest lady in the world that is 10/10 and if she opens her mouth and the first sentence coming out has “like” in it, drops by 2-3 points minimum.


True is like the old saying " show me a beautiful woman and I'll show you a man that is tired of F'king her. Why do we see all those public beautiful, gorgeous women divorcing their husbands after they found them cheating with another woman?


----------



## oldshirt

Personal said:


> Funnily enough I have seen the above claim, rolled out so many times by different men on TAM over the years, when suggesting that women have it easy when seeking sexual partners. Yet there are lots of women both attractive and otherwise, who don't have men falling all over themselves to be with them. Or who have difficulty finding dates, or getting sex and do experienced being rejected and turned down just like men do.


For men it is about cost and risk and how much work and effort they are willing to do. 

Truth be known I probably could have had sex with a lot more than I have had if I was willing to wine and dine them and court them and entertain them and even marry and have a home and family with them (or at least say or imply that I would) 

I have a pretty blunt communication style and was often pretty blunt that I wouldn't be getting into a relationship and wouldn't be supporting anyone etc. Even with my wife I was upfront that I would not be the sole breadwinner and that she would be expected to maintain a career and self supporting income. She was agreeable to that as career is important to her but many women of my generation were not up for that level of independence yet. 

I look at it like this, if a reasonably attractive woman were to just lay down naked and offer up her jay jay and ask for absolutely nothing in return, millions upon millions of men would probably be down for that. 

But if she were to add the stipulation that whoever had sex with her would at least have to ask her her name and tell her their name, probably a million of those men would drop out. They simply wouldn't be willing to put in that much effort. 

If she were to ask that they exchange names and also have to make out with her and give her foreplay and warm her up and give her an orgasm first - a few more million would opt out. 

Then if she were to ask to meet for drinks and have some conversation first, Now a sizeable percentage of men will opt out... just too much work and effort and now they will start saying that she is too fat or too this or that or not this or that enough. 

Then if a woman were to ask for some kind of ongoing interpersonal relationship - then her options are going to start actually being limited and it will start getting difficult for her.....even if she is beautiful and charming etc. 

And finally, if women set the bar at being married and having a home and family as a stipulation for sex,, most women are going to be lucky to have one or two men that meet that criteria to their satisfaction. 

So a lot of it depends on what the women are going to ask for or what the men think they are going to ask for. 

In my single days, I've been with a few women where I basically made them swear that they were not going to ask for a relationship or hold it against me down the road if I did not enter into a traditional relationship with them. 

And even in the swinging community it is a standard understanding and discussion point that it is all recreational and that everyone is going to go home with their own partner and carry on life as usual afterwards.


----------



## Diana7

Evinrude58 said:


> You have no idea the crazy stuff women and men do regarding sex, most likely.
> Believe me, it shocks me too.


I think I do, I have heard many stories. That's why I doubt I would ever date again if I lost my husband. Mind you I also know many people who have dated really nice people quite recently, some of who are now married. I guess you have to be careful who you date and where you look.

Most people could find people who want easy casual sex if that is what they are looking for.


----------



## Diana7

Cletus said:


> You have hair? Luxury!


Bald men can be very sexy!


----------



## Diana7

Rob_1 said:


> True is like the old saying " show me a beautiful woman and I'll show you a man that is tired of F'king her. Why do we see all those public beautiful, gorgeous women divorcing their husbands after they found them cheating with another woman?


It takes much more that looks to maintain a good relationship.


----------



## Numb26

Diana7 said:


> Bald men can be very sexy!


We can!!


----------



## ConanHub

Lila said:


> This is me being 100% honest. My self rating is based on the experiences I had dating before and after my marriage with other men. And I promise you, none could hold a flame to my SO. I just don't think my SO knows how attractive he truly is. I think it's because he grew up in a religiously conservative environment, got married young (19), and was married a very long time before deciding to break away from his religion and divorce. He wasn't "on the market" for long before meeting me.
> 
> I do think he enjoys being with me and that makes me attractive to him. I bring spice, vibrancy, affection, and humor to his life which I know was missing for many years in his marriage.
> 
> Am I a troll? No but assuming sexual market value is valid, his is definitely much higher than mine.


P.S. as an aside, I am really happy for you!!!👍👍


----------



## Evinrude58

Blondilocks said:


> Who is Alex?


Some SEX people SEX. Lol


----------



## Evinrude58

Personal said:


> That's another accident of genetics as well.
> 
> That said my wife often tells me she will dump me if I ever start going bald (because she thinks bald men are ugly). Poor woman, I wonder if she realises she's gonna be stuck with me for the long haul.


Damn. That’s rough


----------



## Rob_1

Diana7 said:


> It takes much more that looks to maintain a good relationship.


That's a given!


----------



## ccpowerslave

Talking with a couple ladies at the gym before I started today. They asked if I was going to be at a party on Friday and I said no because I’m going to Vegas.

The lady who knows me well asked where I was staying and I told her. She goes, “Oh… look at this guy. He looks like Holiday Inn but he’s staying over there.”

Now is this good because I am keeping my street cred, was she just talking ****, or is it bad?


----------



## Enigma32

ccpowerslave said:


> Can take hottest lady in the world that is 10/10 and if she opens her mouth and the first sentence coming out has “like” in it, drops by 2-3 points minimum.


And that still makes her at least a 7-8 and definitely do-able


----------



## Cletus

Enigma32 said:


> And that still makes her at least a 7-8 and definitely do-able


Even if only in the back seat, right?


----------



## Enigma32

ccpowerslave said:


> Talking with a couple ladies at the gym before I started today. They asked if I was going to be at a party on Friday and I said no because I’m going to Vegas.
> 
> The lady who knows me well asked where I was staying and I told her. She goes, “Oh… look at this guy. He looks like Holiday Inn but he’s staying over there.”
> 
> Now is this good because I am keeping my street cred, was she just talking ****, or is it bad?


If I had to guess, I'd say it's a little of both. Mostly good though. I am assuming based on her comment that the place you told her you would be staying is a higher end place, correct? Her comment makes it sound like her impression of you was that you're not the type of guy that would stay in such a nice place, but you'd opt for the Holiday Inn instead. Mediocre. So, based on this, I'd say she seemed a little impressed and her comment was a playful and maybe even flirty jab at you based on her own false assumptions.


----------



## Enigma32

Cletus said:


> Even if only in the back seat, right?


Oh heck, I'll take the bait this time. That annoying super hot girl isn't back seat girl. She's the one you take out in public and introduce to people. It raises your credibility with everyone that sees you with her. Then when you eventually break things off with her because she's so damn annoying, the inevitable breakup questions come. "Why'd you stop seeing that one girl." When you say something along the lines of how she just wasn't doing it for you, your street cred goes up 10x and other ladies will become interested. Because who are you, that average looking guy, that you can not only date that super hot girl, but you will even break things off with her over nothing specific.


----------



## Cletus

Enigma32 said:


> Because who are you, that average looking guy, that you can not only date that super hot girl, but you will even break things off with her over nothing specific.


But wouldn't your street cred go up even more if you were caught with her in the back seat? 

"Sorry, man, that one was just too fugly to be caught dead with in public". 

Sorry, just yanking the chain a little.


----------



## Enigma32

Cletus said:


> But wouldn't your street cred go up even more if you were caught with her in the back seat?
> 
> "Sorry, man, that one was just too fugly to be caught dead with in public".
> 
> Sorry, just yanking the chain a little.


It probably would! I drive a sports car with tiny back seats though. I'm not nimble enough to make that work anymore. 

It's cool. I'm not the sensitive sort. "All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players..."


----------



## Cici1990

ccpowerslave said:


> Talking with a couple ladies at the gym before I started today. They asked if I was going to be at a party on Friday and I said no because I’m going to Vegas.
> 
> The lady who knows me well asked where I was staying and I told her. She goes, “Oh… look at this guy. He looks like Holiday Inn but he’s staying over there.”
> 
> Now is this good because I am keeping my street cred, was she just talking ****, or is it bad?


Never pictured you as somebody who gives off Holiday Inn vibes. Maybe the camo shorts knocked you down a bit.


----------



## Al_Bundy

Cici1990 said:


> Never pictured you as somebody who gives off Holiday Inn vibes. Maybe the camo shorts knocked you down a bit.


It's usually the new kid at the firm who is seeing six figures for the first time who has to dress to let everyone know he's a big shot. The whales are comfortable just knowing they are whales.


----------



## ccpowerslave

Cici1990 said:


> Never pictured you as somebody who gives off Holiday Inn vibes. Maybe the camo shorts knocked you down a bit.


I’m trying to up my game a bit I am going to get measured for a new suit and a tux for next years travel.

I figured if Mark Wahlberg can wear those shorts then I can, maybe that was a mistake.


----------



## ccpowerslave

Enigma32 said:


> It probably would! I drive a sports car with tiny back seats though. I'm not nimble enough to make that work anymore.


I think there is a joke about the back seats in the Porsche 911. It’s something along the lines of nobody can sit back there, but if your wife goes with the car (matches the car) then your kids will be able to fit.

I found this highly sexist and offensive before laughing.


----------



## gaius

Cici1990 said:


> I know a really hot guy named Alex and women throw themselves at him regularly. True story.


If I was that good looking I'd grab some ice cream and pack on the pounds till they stopped that. How embarrassing.

The only guy I know who talks about women throwing themselves at him regularly is one of those social animal types that talks to everyone. He also lacks something he's trying to overcompensate for. I don't know what sense it makes to charm women you have no interest in. Seems kind of mean. Wouldn't it be better to make them think you're a boring dolt?


----------



## In Absentia

Talking about back seats... never have sex in a old FIAT 500... it ain't fun.


----------



## Divinely Favored

There


Diana7 said:


> I am sure it happens at times with very good looking men, or very rich men, but to imply that lots of women ask a random man for sex on a regular basis just doesn't wash.


There is also a BIG difference in the mentality of todays young ladies concerning unattached sex and the way we were raised. I do not consider myself sexy, wife does. At 49, i have had hot girls half my age eying me up with a look that made me uncomfortable as hell. There are alot more young ladies today raring to jump in the sack(randy in your terms) for NSA sex with many men.


----------



## Divinely Favored

In Absentia said:


> Talking about back seats... never have sex in a old FIAT 500... it ain't fun.


Hell i could probably wear a pair for shoes. I can barely get in the driver seat of a ford fiesta. Actually operating it is a painful experience on the knees.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Lila said:


> He's welcome to have whatever preferences he wants. But what he said was "*No One [*_referring to all men_*]* wants to let the world know they had some ugly girl in the back seat of their car". What he should say is "*I* don't want to let the world that *I* had some ugly girl in the back seat"
> 
> ETA:. As one of those "ugly" women, I have had no trouble finding men who were both much better looking, more successful, and way better than me in other ways to actually get into relationships, not just be ****ed and chucked. Must be something about me beyond my physical appearance to make me a quality partner. Go figure.


The hottest woman in the world can be ugly on the inside and it taints the whole package. 

A woman judged a 4 will soon be seen as a 8 when her inner beauty surfaces. To some of us men what is on the inside carries more value than the outside.


----------



## Lila

Divinely Favored said:


> A woman judged a 4 will soon be seen as a 8 when her inner beauty surfaces. To some of us men what is on the inside carries more value than the outside.



I don't disagree that there are _some_ men out there like this but I've never encountered them. 

I have never had a man who initially judged me as a 4, based solely on looks, then grow to see me as more than a likeable and easy to-get-along-with friend. Again, it's not to say that it doesn't happen but, I socialize and have dated a lot. It's not been my experience. I may start a thread in the ladies lounge on this topic.


----------



## ccpowerslave

For me there has to be baseline attraction then anything after that is disqualifying. 

So I would not be interested in someone I wasn’t attracted to and then suddenly become smitten based on their personality alone.

Would/would not initially based on physical attributes alone. I can’t see a case where talking changes that.

So you can say the personality is more important and I’d agree that after passing the initial filter, yes. So if you’d hit the 4 but she becomes an 8 to you, sure. But if you’re like I need a baseline 6, then I don’t see it.


----------



## In Absentia

Divinely Favored said:


> Hell i could probably wear a pair for shoes. I can barely get in the driver seat of a ford fiesta. Actually operating it is a painful experience on the knees.


lol... we were in the back seat... but we were young and slim...


----------



## Lila

ccpowerslave said:


> For me there has to be baseline attraction then anything after that is disqualifying.
> 
> So I would not be interested in someone I wasn’t attracted to and then suddenly become smitten based on their personality alone.
> 
> Would/would not initially based on physical attributes alone. I can’t see a case where talking changes that.
> 
> So you can say the personality is more important and I’d agree that after passing the initial filter, yes. So if you’d hit the 4 but she becomes an 8 to you, sure. But if you’re like I need a baseline 6, then I don’t see it.



I started a thread to discuss this. Thread Jack to a Thread Jack


----------



## Divinely Favored

Lila said:


> I don't disagree that there are _some_ men out there like this but I've never encountered them.
> 
> I have never had a man who initially judged me as a 4, based solely on looks, then grow to see me as more than a likeable and easy to-get-along-with friend. Again, it's not to say that it doesn't happen but, I socialize and have dated a lot. It's not been my experience. I may start a thread in the ladies lounge on this topic.


I got lucky in that my wife was beautiful inside and out. When i met her i was 24 and she 28. I would say she was a 8/9, 5'4 brunette with blue eyes, and i saw myself as a 5. Had no idea why she would agree to a date with me.

She thought i was good looking, go figure, 6'05" blue eyed country boy. She liked the uniform. 

She was the "fat girl" in school. Straight As and excelled in softball and tennis. When i met her she wore a size 1. She did not see herself as pretty and saw me as higher SMV than her. She also had CSA trama...God put us together because i had tge patience of Job and i am very slow to anger, unless someone is hurting my family. Wished i knew where her dad was buried and i would stop and piss on his grave every chance i got.

I was amazed she was beautiful and did not have a stuck up attitude. Her favorite job was when she found jobs for and helped train mentally handicapped, "her kids" as she called them for the State of Texas. She has a heart of gold and cares deeply for the children and the needy.


----------



## ConanHub

Andy1001 said:


> I traveled a lot as a young man.
> I got on an elevator in a hotel in Manchester England one Friday night. A woman got on at the same time. She looked at me and said “Want to ****”.
> I did.
> We had a great couple of days together and I never even got her second name.
> I honestly think that over the years at least a couple of hundred air hostesses slipped me their phone number and name of whatever hotel they were staying in that night.
> And I called quite a few of them.
> I always tried to work out every night after work in whatever hotel I happened to be staying in and I was often invited by one of the trainers for another type of workout.


Well I'll be damned!

I'm taking a company paid for flight (coach), I'm dressed like an idiot as usual and I let my curiosity about Andy and stewardesses get the better of me.

I'm wearing a stupid mask for the flight so I said hello to one stewardess and I didn't hide my voice this time.

One word and I got a specific response signalling she is open to more "discourse". 

Andy knows what he is talking about.😉


----------



## ccpowerslave

I got grabbed in the back today by one of the gym ladies. I think my pull ups are paying off. She put her hand on my back and I hope she didn’t get frostbite from that cold hard steel.


----------



## Numb26

I was at my friends gym doing some prep work for next month competition and had a group of gym ladies absolutely amazed that a man of my "advanced" years was out squating their bf's. Score one for AARP


----------



## Andy1001

ConanHub said:


> Well I'll be damned!
> 
> I'm taking a company paid for flight (coach), I'm dressed like an idiot as usual and I let my curiosity about Andy and stewardesses get the better of me.
> 
> I'm wearing a stupid mask for the flight so I said hello to one stewardess and I didn't hide my voice this time.
> 
> One word and I got a specific response signalling she is open to more "discourse".
> 
> Andy knows what he is talking about.😉


I flew from Liberty International to Heathrow one day and the following evening I flew back out. It was the same group of stewardesses in first class. One of them had gotten her hair cut on the stopover and I remarked on it and how well it looked.
That’s all it took.........😁


----------



## Numb26

Andy1001 said:


> I flew from Liberty International to Heathrow one day and the following evening I flew back out. It was the same group of stewardesses in first class. One of them had gotten her hair cut on the stopover and I remarked on it and how well it looked.
> That’s all it took.........😁


Like shooting fish in a barrel


----------



## ccpowerslave

Numb26 said:


> I was at my friends gym doing some prep work for next month competition and had a group of gym ladies absolutely amazed that a man of my "advanced" years was out squating their bf's. Score one for AARP


I love the gym ladies. 

Today they were complaining that one of the songs they play in there has a guy rapping about his scrotum and his **** is as big as the Eiffel Tower. Their commentary about who wants to hear about some dudes balls was quite instructional.


----------



## ConanHub

Andy1001 said:


> I flew from Liberty International to Heathrow one day and the following evening I flew back out. It was the same group of stewardesses in first class. One of them had gotten her hair cut on the stopover and I remarked on it and how well it looked.
> That’s all it took.........😁


I didn't doubt your accounts about your experiences given mine though in a different setting.

I haven't flown nearly as much and always ignored stewardesses.

Maybe I should have been paying attention.😉

Before anybody blows up or thinks the worst, I'm only curious about interactions and responses.

I'm not cheating on Mrs. C with flying pop tarts!😆


----------



## ccpowerslave

I echo the sentiment I have very little game but in the last 4 flights I took I had one grab my shoulder and chat a bit. No wedding ring on that one, she was probably obtainable is my guess especially in a boring town like the destination.

I don’t think it’s just the women ones either. I bet if you’re gay you can hook it up with the male flight attendants (who are also gay or bi).

No offense to flight attendants I’m sure there are many with traditional values.


----------



## Andy1001

With regards to flying often I found an old time book a while back and for three months during 2004 I flew every day. 
Every single ****ing day!
And I went over four hundred days without getting home.


----------



## Numb26

ccpowerslave said:


> I love the gym ladies.
> 
> Today they were complaining that one of the songs they play in there has a guy rapping about his scrotum and his **** is as big as the Eiffel Tower. Their commentary about who wants to hear about some dudes balls was quite instructional.


LMAO I hear some interesting ones too. My favorite was the spitting or swallowing debate


----------



## Numb26

ccpowerslave said:


> I echo the sentiment I have very little game but in the last 4 flights I took I had one grab my shoulder and chat a bit. No wedding ring on that one, she was probably obtainable is my guess especially in a boring town like the destination.
> 
> I don’t think it’s just the women ones either. I bet if you’re gay you can hook it up with the male flight attendants (who are also gay or bi).
> 
> No offense to flight attendants I’m sure there are many with traditional values.


I do miss the flight attendants on flights


----------



## Andy1001

Numb26 said:


> LMAO I hear some interesting ones too. My favorite was the spitting or swallowing debate


An old guy I know had a very interesting way of describing how cold the weather was when he worked in Canada.
He said it was so cold the hookers would give free blow jobs just to get something warm in their stomachs.


----------



## ConanHub

Andy1001 said:


> With regards to flying often I found an old time book a while back and for three months during 2004 I flew every day.
> Every single ****ing day!
> And I went over four hundred days without getting home.


I'm surprised you kept your head. Hooking up probably kept you halfway sane.


----------



## Al_Bundy

I think the reason guys don't get upset at the whole rating thing is because we're used to it. Things like rank, seniority, winners/losers, it's just something we've dealt with going back to when when you're a kid on the playground racing to see who's the fastest.


----------



## Numb26

Al_Bundy said:


> I think the reason guys don't get upset at the whole rating thing is because we're used to it. Things like rank, seniority, winners/losers, it's just something we've dealt with going back to when when you're a kid on the playground racing to see who's the fastest.


There has to be a pecking order.


----------



## Enigma32

Al_Bundy said:


> I think the reason guys don't get upset at the whole rating thing is because we're used to it. Things like rank, seniority, winners/losers, it's just something we've dealt with going back to when when you're a kid on the playground racing to see who's the fastest.


I think men are just more used to having to deal with criticism while people routinely lie to women about everything. For example, if I gain too much weight, one of my buddies will likely slap me in the gut, laugh, and ask me if I am expecting a baby or something. Someone will tell me I need to get my butt back into the gym. Men are told we better get a good job if we want a decent woman. If we still live with our parents we are losers and if we don't pay for dates we are cheap. Men generally take this kind of criticism and act on it. 

Women on the other hand, if they gain weight, that's when you start hearing about body positivity movements and beauty at any size. If you read on forums like this one, there is a ton of advice given to men on how to get a woman, but I often see ladies being told that a man should just love them the way they are. "If you can't handle me at my worst, you don't deserve me at my best." Men lie to women because we wanna have sex with them and women seem to lie to each other even more. I think we are doing ladies a disservice. 

One anecdotal situation I am dealing with now. I know of a female that is a really big girl and she's been trying out Halloween costumes. She is wearing this backless mess that's basically just letting her belly and considerable backfat stick out and when she put it on, all her friends kinda just looked at each other. What did they tell her though? You look great! No one wants to tell the girl she looks ridiculous. Now men, if one of your buddies was a fat guy and he put on some shirt with his huge gut and backfat flopping around, wouldn't you say something to him? Like, is your outfit a joke or something, bro? I know I would. I'd expect one of my friends to tell me I look like a clown but you can't seem to give ladies the same respect these days. Everyone just blows smoke up their butt and pretends they are perfect no matter what they do.


----------



## ccpowerslave

I don’t know about women but if one of my friends looks fat I tell them they look fat, ask them why they’re so fat, etc… Any kind of Pillsbury comparison is also warranted as well as Free Willy jokes.


----------



## Numb26

ccpowerslave said:


> I don’t know about women but if one of my friends looks fat I tell them they look fat, ask them why they’re so fat, etc… Any kind of Pillsbury comparison is also warranted as well as Free Willy jokes.


I heard them all!! LOL


----------

