# What percentage here consider infidelity a deal killer regasrdless of effort after



## YupItsMe (Sep 29, 2011)

*What percentage here consider infidelity a deal killer regardless of effort after*

It seems many here advocate reconciliation at least under the right circumstances.

I have not been betrayed that I know of and I dont suspect it so I wont pretend to understand the myriad of confusing issues that infidelity creates but I am curious about one very specific thing.

Are there many or even a few members here that advocate in an absolute that infidelity is a deal killer regardless of post efforts of the betrayer?

Isnt it sometimes or even often the case that the cheating spouse is simply not worthy of the painstaking effort to reconcile?

Does that change dramatically when there are children from the marriage?

To be clear, since my marriage has not suffered from infidelity as far as I know, I typically bypass most of the specific infidelity posts and focus on posts that are more relevent to my marriage such as the common confusion between husbands and wives and the posts that offer tips from happy couples or couples struggling from less hurtful issues. 

What percentage of members would you guess would divorce without any further discussion if they were cheated on by their spouse? 

There are very small lapses in judgement like getting giddy with an attractive stranger while standing in line at the grocery store and then there is the serious desires to encourage an emotional affair. 

Im not suggesting anyone go berserk over a short giddy episode with a total stranger in public. Im talking about clear inappropriate violation of agreed boundaries. 

Also does anyone here believe infidelity is a symptom of an issue that is the fault of the betrayed under any circumstances?

Is it ever the fault of the betrayed that infidelity happened? 

It seems cheaters very often attempt to justify their behavior even post infidelity and it is almost always beyond extremely lame but does anyone here see any justifible situation for infidelity whatsoever?


----------



## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Infidelity is an immediate deal breaker for me in my marriage.

It's possible I'd file without even telling her I knew about the affair depending on how it went down.

She has been faithful to me as far as I know but I've had many women cheat on me in my past.
Reconciliation i's not something I would I would have the strength or time to consider.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

I was in the deal breaker category before Sept , 2010. It's funny how you mind set changes after you have to make a choice.


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I personally could never take them back. But that's me, I'm a 100% or 100% out sort of person. Not manic, but I'm very loyal when it's deserved, but when you cross me you are done for good.

That said, I think most people are more onpen then myself, and I will give council to work on things even if there is a small chance. I do believe in trying if there is hope. 

The bottom line is you have to be self aware and truthful. Do you have a boundary and do you have enough self pride to stick to it, or are you negotiable.

But on fidelity, it's clearly never justified so that means the cheater has chosen to cross a line they knew should not ever be crossed. Just like the accountant who steals a million dollars, he knows he is wrong when he does it, and he s gambling that he will never get caught, but when he does he will go to jail. Its a consequence.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## YupItsMe (Sep 29, 2011)

tacoma said:


> Infidelity is an immediate deal breaker for me in my marriage.
> 
> It's possible I'd file without even telling her I knew about the affair depending on how it went down.
> 
> ...


I think my wife and I are in this category. Tacoma, how do you feel about others that are more "flexible?" 

I fall into the each to his own except for my spouse as agreed camp but that prespective not having gonme thru it yet doesnt work for me either.



joe kidd said:


> I was in the deal breaker category before Sept , 2010. It's funny how you mind set changes after you have to make a choice.


When you say "funny" can you be more descriptive about your thoughts. My interest is genuine. Im not trying to be be aggravating or insulting in any way.


----------



## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

YupItsMe said:


> I think my wife and I are in this category. Tacoma, how do you feel about others that are more "flexible?"
> 
> I fall into the each to his own except for my spouse as agreed camp but that prespective not having gonme thru it yet doesnt work for me either.
> 
> ...


"Funny" means, in my case, that I was open to a change in my thinking. I usually put things in very neat categories. Black or white, no gray ever. I got to know myself during that time, seemed like I was stranger to myself. I always saw everything in absolutes, wrong -right, bad -good. Discovered a middle ground I didn't know existed.


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Me & mine has never had a EA or a PA, but I feel personally I would find other things MORE of a deal breaker -for sure. For instance, a sexless marraige to me, would be worse than if my husband had a one night stand -because he had a horrendous weak moment (yeah, easy to say, it hasn't happened) but I have friends where it did and my GF WAS withholding sex, and I had compassion on her husband for falling (this was many yrs ago now) ... she listened to me -against her church's advisory and they got over that with flying colors and are very very happy today , they have 4 kids. Very wonderful people, it can happen to anyone -this I learned from knowing them, dear dear friends of mine . They have spoke openly to me & my husband about all of this, he is harder on himself today -than she is. Seeing true forgiveness is beautiful- where the heart was worthy.


----------



## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

YupItsMe said:


> Tacoma, how do you feel about others that are more "flexible?"


I think those people generally fall into one of two camps.

They are either...

Horribly weak and dependent and don`t want to face the rigors of life without the WS.

Or..

They`re stronger and far more selfless then I am capable of being.

It depends on the situation.

I see so many BS`s here jumping so fast on R with their WS when there`s no remorse, no compassion, no respect, no nothing, been given them to believe their WS is worth it.

Then there are the BS`s whose spouses are seriously remorseful in bad situations that can be avoided in the future who agree to "R" and I admire their commitment, even moreso because I feel myself incapable of such commitment.

I see it like this.

Just by betraying your spouse through infidelity you rip a huge nasty piece of their very soul out.
It`s ****ing painful.
In order to take you back that BS then has to take what`s left of their tattered heart and hand it right back to the person who just ripped it apart.
This is an act of selfless faith and trust (even verified) I simply don`t feel I`m capable of after living the life I`ve lived.




joe kidd said:


> I was in the deal breaker category before Sept , 2010. It's funny how you mind set changes after you have to make a choice.


I`ll make a caveat for Joe`s statement.
He may be right, I may discover my wife's banging the UPS guy tomorrow and I agree to R sometime next week.

You just really don`t know until you`re there but the thing is I`ve been there before and chose R and I`ve been there other times and ended the relationship and my experience tells me I`m better off just ending it.

The caveat is based upon the fact that I`ve never been as close with a woman before as I am my wife.
Our relationship is symbiotic on nearly every level.

There is more here worth salvaging (if it could be salvaged) than I`ve ever had before.


----------



## Soccerfan73 (Jul 30, 2011)

After experiencing it, and trying to make it work out with my ex-wife.....I now would just end things. 

I really respect those people that can move on and reconcile, with the WS doing the heavy lifting of course. But I think I'm just not able to now.


----------



## DeadlyNightshade (Dec 5, 2011)

Cheating is the hallmark of a lowlife. That is all there is to it.


----------



## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

I have to speak hypothetically, as both my Xw's had no remorse for cheating. I think I might have been able to get past it, if they had been sorry and did the work,
I just see so mnay WSs who never feel bad about it, as if it is their due if they percieve a deficiency in their spouses(despite , often, being so deficient themselves).
I think we get a skewed view of the % of folks with remorse by being on sites like this. In reality, most cheaters exit and never come to places like this to explore why they cheated. Thye just go on their merry way and repeat the behavior in subsequent relationships.
There really are a lot of folks going through life oblivious to anything but their immediate gratiification. It is sad and scary.


----------



## YupItsMe (Sep 29, 2011)

Is there a third camp that takes much of the responsibility for weakening the marriage to the point where infidelity is more likely? 

For example, the bettayed spouse fails to meet the needs of the other for so long it weakens an otherwise committed spouse to the point of romantic starvation. 

Sure most will say the cheating spouse should get out but we all know this is a difficult choice for so many even if it is the more honorable choice under at least most all circumstances.


----------



## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

Until you have been in the situation yourself, you can't really answer this question. We ALL said infidelity was a deal breaker before it happened to us. 80% of the time, couples choose to work it out, but 100% of that 80% said "Yeah, if my wife/husband cheated on me, I would leave."


----------



## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

YupItsMe said:


> Is there a third camp that takes much of the responsibility for weakening the marriage to the point where infidelity is more likely?
> 
> For example, the bettayed spouse fails to meet the needs of the other for so long it weakens an otherwise committed spouse to the point of romantic starvation.
> 
> Sure most will say the cheating spouse should get out but we all know this is a difficult choice for so many even if it is the more honorable choice under at least most all circumstances.


If anything, the phenomena I have seen the most has the BS jumping all over the chance to accewpt all the responsibility for the breakdown of the marriage. Seems there are two reasons for this. First, the Bs's self esteem in in the gutter,and the Bs doesn ot have the strength to see clearly how the crticism leveled by the WSin justifying, is skewed and ignores both the WS's contribution and all the BS's good qualities. It is almost as if we have come t accept that perfection is possible in a marriage and the vows we made were contingent on our being perfect.Second, the Bs gains a sense of control and safety if he or she can convince him/herself that their deficiencies cause the cheating. It is now in their control. Be a better person and this will not happen thinking.
I am sure we can all come up with extreme examples where the Bs was an absolute monster. But, this is the exception. Some studied on this subject have concluded that in assessing per affair problems in the marriage, the WS , usually, ewas the main contributor to the problems.
This makes sense to me, as by cheating, the WS has ,already demonstrated a lack of integrity, poor problem solving skills, por communication skills and a lack of empthy and entilement issues.
makes sense that a person with those characteristics was less than an ideal mate pre affair.


----------



## rotor (Aug 28, 2010)

I don’t think cheating in itself would be a deal breaker for me but when you combine that with a 25 year sexless marriage where I stuck by her and then she starts that sh1t up at a time in my life that I desperately needed her emotional support the most, well we are done.


----------



## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

rotor said:


> I don’t think cheating in itself would be a deal breaker for me but when you combine that with a 25 year sexless marriage where I stuck by her and then she starts that sh1t up at a time in my life that I desperately needed her emotional support the most, well we are done.


Sexless for you, maybe, Rotor. But, I bet if you could really investigate and find out what was going on all those years, you would find activity from your wife.
The overwhelming % of affairs go undiscovered forever. If you found one, odds are very good there were more.


----------



## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

rotor said:


> I don’t think cheating in itself would be a deal breaker for me but when you combine that with a 25 year sexless marriage where I stuck by her and then she starts that sh1t up at a time in my life that I desperately needed her emotional support the most, well we are done.


rotor has a point too.

It would depend on what shape the relationship s in in other ways when the infidelity is discovered.

If a normally forgiving BS is in a resentful place already R is less likely.

I suppose the reverse is also an influence.

If most parts of the relationship are good regardless of the infidelity it could cause a non-resentful BS to be more forgiving.


----------



## YupItsMe (Sep 29, 2011)

The cheater benefits as their otherwise principled spouse softens due to unanticipated circumstances such as a self esteem crisis. 

Shaken self confidence is a lovely time to be making permanent life altering decisions that effect dozens of other people. 

This is another sobering thread (not referring to addiction)


----------



## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

I have zero tolerance for cheating whether it's an EA or PA. My first husband cheated(plus he was abusive, which was enough to leave) and when I found out he cheated, I was out the door that same day I found out.

I love my husband dearly and I can't imagine life without him. However, if he ever cheated, I'll leave without looking back. You bet it's a dealbreaker. Luckily I do not have to worry about this with my current husband. He would never put himself in a position to even have the possibility happen.

If your spouse truly loves you, they will not cheat. This is my opinion. I myself would and will never cheat, nor let myself in a position to. My husband and I greatly value our morals. We both put in a lot of effort into our marriage and deeply love one another.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## rotor (Aug 28, 2010)

Arnold said:


> Sexless for you, maybe, Rotor. But, I bet if you could really investigate and find out what was going on all those years, you would find activity from your wife.
> The overwhelming % of affairs go undiscovered forever. If you found one, odds are very good there were more.




That I have no doubt of because the duchebag I was referring to is a so called personal friend but she is also a member of the women’s cheater club at work. 

I don’t think she has done this the entire marriage though. My take on it is that she is one of those women that marry a guy they don’t love because he is great husband material and then years later start to feel like something is missing (duh) and that THEY are not happy then they start cake eating.

I even know the timeline because she unknowingly told me when she was spinning lies trying to convince me that she is now sexually cured. LOL

It seems she started having resentment issues when I worked at a place that kicked my career and earnings into overdrive. (Aww she got bored while hubby was career building.)

Then right after I had a near fatal crash on one of my motorcycles is when she figured out "something is missing." (Sound familiar?)

Then when I was a total basket case because some douche bag filed malicious false computer hacking charges trying to knock one of my websites off the air and I spent 2 years under federal investigation before I was cleared (which is the scariest thing you will ever encounter in your life) is when she had her "sexual awakening" (Oh yea? with who?)

The conversation went like this.

Me: So when did you have your awakening?

Her: Oh about a year and a half ago.

Me: Why didn’t you come to me then?

Her: You were unapproachable.

Me: A little lovin could have gone a long way.

Her: Silence


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Most poeple who have not found that their spouse is cheating say that they it's a deal breaker. 

I think that most people who have been cheated on make an attempt to fix the marriage. Unless the cheater is a repeat cheater, infidelity is generally a sign of a huge marital problem that existed before the affair. Many people acually have a better marriage after an affair .... because they put a lot of work into fixing things.

In my case, if I my husband cheats again... that is deal breaker. That would be the end. Once, can be a symptom of a marriage in trouble. Twice or more is a symptom of a spouse with a rotten soul.


----------



## wiser11 (Jul 9, 2011)

:iagree:


Laurae1967 said:


> Until you have been in the situation yourself, you can't really answer this question. We ALL said infidelity was a deal breaker before it happened to us. 80% of the time, couples choose to work it out, but 100% of that 80% said "Yeah, if my wife/husband cheated on me, I would leave."


:iagree:
When infidelity rears its ugly head you cannot think straight. Also denial gets into the mix and stops you in your tracks.


----------



## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

The easy thing would have been to just leave. Leave and never look back. If there wasn't something worth saving that's exactly what I would have done.


----------



## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> Most poeple who have not found that their spouse is cheating say that they it's a deal breaker.
> 
> I think that most people who have been cheated on make an attempt to fix the marriage. Unless the cheater is a repeat cheater, infidelity is generally a sign of a huge marital problem that existed before the affair. Many people acually have a better marriage after an affair .... because they put a lot of work into fixing things.
> 
> In my case, if I my husband cheats again... that is deal breaker. That would be the end. Once, can be a symptom of a marriage in trouble. Twice or more is a symptom of a spouse with a rotten soul.


I agree, the initial , knee jerk reaction is, often, to attempt reconciliation.However, only about 30% of realtionships continue and about 70% of those are unhappy, according to some of the studies I have seen.
The stronger marriage deal, while possible, is a longshot. A betrayed now has some pretty stron evidence that hs or her spouse does not love him/her to the exclusion of others. And , they also know that when the chips are down, like in illness or financial crisis, the WS is fully capable of jettisoning the betrayed in the future.


----------



## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Laurae1967 said:


> Until you have been in the situation yourself, you can't really answer this question. We ALL said infidelity was a deal breaker before it happened to us. 80% of the time, couples choose to work it out, but 100% of that 80% said "Yeah, if my wife/husband cheated on me, I would leave."


The 80%figure is bandied about a lot. Laurae. It seems to come from, primarily, sources thaat stand to profit via offering their reconciliation services for a fee.
Other studies, from sources with no apparent $$ motivator, put the figure at about 30% with high rates of future unhappineess(70%) among the couples that remain together.
I only offer this, not to discourage folks, but to let the majority of folks who will have no opportunity to reconcile knw that they are not the odd people out. 
My own therapist, who says he does a lot of marital counseling involving infidelity told me that he can help only about 10% remain together and have a good relationship.(and that is with folks where both partners were, apparently, at least motivated enough to go to counseling together.)


----------



## YupItsMe (Sep 29, 2011)

There is no study out there that is 0% or 100% so there is always a chance. 

Dumb and Dumber 'There's a Chance' - YouTube


----------



## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

I am in this position right now with H's 2 EA's. I don't feel we are going to be able to reconcile,, yet oddly enough, we are still in the same house because I have found out about myself that I am determined to find out " the truth", since he is not telling me the whole story and more issues keep popping up as time goes by.

Call me obsessed or crazy, but right now, sitting on the computer going through phone numbers, people's names.... searching his computer and finding out what sites he is going to.... seeing what he is doing now since (supposedly) ending A's... is the only thing actually helping me feel like I have a purpose right now....

I have to keep myself busy and playing detective is the only thing I can do right now. I know he's up to no good and I want to have more proof of it. 

*But to your question,,,, yes infidelity is a deal breaker........especially when the CS won't "own it", is not transparent and doesn't show remorse.*


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Numb in Ohio said:


> I am in this position right now with H's 2 EA's. I don't feel we are going to be able to reconcile,, yet oddly enough, we are still in the same house because I have found out about myself that I am determined to find out " the truth", since he is not telling me the whole story and more issues keep popping up as time goes by.
> 
> Call me obsessed or crazy, but right now, sitting on the computer going through phone numbers, people's names.... searching his computer and finding out what sites he is going to.... seeing what he is doing now since (supposedly) ending A's... is the only thing actually helping me feel like I have a purpose right now....
> 
> ...


Yikes can I relate to this... I was in that same place at one time.


----------



## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

I think of cheating differently than most, I guess. Often, when a person on this site relates how they felt to be cheated on, they talk about how long they've loved this person, been married, or how deep the marriage was as some point. Me, I think this is largely a coping mechanism we use when our sense of self worth is shattered. Point is, if the other cheater felt that the marriage was so great, they wouldn't have cheated. They made the choice to interpret the great marriage as unimportant. They are signifying that they want out. It would be an end of the marriage to me.

At least some percentage of men, I believe, judging from the men I know, see the potential for marrying another good woman as pretty remote. I suspect that this is sometimes a factor for wanting to reconcile. Sure, some hope to recapture the love they once had, but again, this woman has shown what she really thinks of that love, hasn't she? Thinking that it can realistically be recaptured with her is probably out there with believing in fairies and dragons. Maybe the marriage had gone cold, but she (or he) could've chose other options, other than cheating.

Don't mean to sound shallow, but I really put my heart and soul into marriage, and vowed to make it more important than anything. Some mistakes in a person's life just have permanent consequences. 

When my wife went through months of depression, and another woman seemed very friendly in an open ended way, it could've been an out for me sexually. But I never once lost the awareness of how my wife's self esteem is so fragile, and how I hold that in my hands, and how we've talked about this concept so many times to keep each other strong.


----------



## Wheels65 (Jul 17, 2011)

My ex wife was (is), bi-polar, alcoholic, drug addict, verbally abusive and a cheater. I tried to help her thru it all for a long time but the cheating was the deal breaker...cheating under would always be a deal breaker for me tho.

Mutually agreed swinging would be fine, we never went there but I know some people find happiness doing it.

She was and continues to be unhappy with herself and life in general, I always have thanked God for every single day.

I've never feared being on my own and am much happier now with her (and her baggage) out of my life...I wish her all best but refuse to be her care taker, got my own life to live and don't need the drama. In a way her cheating was my out to a happier life


----------



## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Halien said:


> I think of cheating differently than most, I guess. Often, when a person on this site relates how they felt to be cheated on, they talk about how long they've loved this person, been married, or how deep the marriage was as some point. Me, I think this is largely a coping mechanism we use when our sense of self worth is shattered. Point is, if the other cheater felt that the marriage was so great, they wouldn't have cheated. They made the choice to interpret the great marriage as unimportant. They are signifying that they want out. It would be an end of the marriage to me.
> 
> At least some percentage of men, I believe, judging from the men I know, see the potential for marrying another good woman as pretty remote. I suspect that this is sometimes a factor for wanting to reconcile. Sure, some hope to recapture the love they once had, but again, this woman has shown what she really thinks of that love, hasn't she? Thinking that it can realistically be recaptured with her is probably out there with believing in fairies and dragons. Maybe the marriage had gone cold, but she (or he) could've chose other options, other than cheating.
> 
> ...


Does not sound like a unique way of viewing it, at all. I feel the exact same way, as do many others.


----------



## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

Arnold said:


> Does not sound like a unique way of viewing it, at all. I feel the exact same way, as do many others.


I mean unique as in most of the posts you read here, on this site. I just don't understand how a person could allow themselves the option of reconciling because the offending partner feels remorse, which probably didn't come across in the post. Sorry, but they ended the marriage permanently, making themself inelegible to contribute their own opinion in staying married. I have a big heart for the person who chooses to stay in the marriage by not cheating, and a healthy enough sense of self confidence to know that we both have other options. I firmly believe that if big brother stepped in and mandated a law that cheating ends the marriage, every time, there would be a whole lot less cheating. You'll see a visceral reaction to this statement by some people who would declare it to be heartless to agree to this before marrying - and this shows you the true reason that infidelity is rampant. We are shamed into accepting infidelity as a society, because those who do not accept it are considered heartless.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Until you have experienced infidelity, you truly have no idea how you would handle it. 

I thought I would never be forgiving for it but found I was. Does that mean I was happy it happened? F-ck no. But I surprised myself.


----------



## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

I've said here it would be over in a flash first time. But over the months I've come to the conclusion that I don't care either way. All I would expect is a financial contribution. Beyond that? Screw who or what you like if it means you're in a marginally better mood some of the time.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Your marriage sounds totally awesome, Runs.


----------



## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

I know without a doubt that if I cheated - the marriage would be over. H would leave.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Your marriage sounds totally awesome, Runs.


I'd consider doing it Runs' way if it made sense financially.


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Is cheating a dealbreaker? "It depends" so I guess that means I'm in the No camp. The How and Why are big factors to me. Of course, as I found out, its the unremorse that killed the deal for me.

Strangely I remember clearly at the beginning of our marriage a conversation my W and I had, which she initiated by saying "if I ever cheat on you I want you to leave me"

At the time I thought it was just strange because infidelity by either of us was a thought that I just never really once even entertained, call it naivity if you will. Anyway I formed an opinion very quickly back then, which is exactly the same way I view it now, and I told her: "It's not that simple".

Now I just slap my forehead and see all the signs that she just really has never had the same respect or perspective on marriage that I do... there are even red flags from before we dated where she was the OW of a married guy we both worked with at the place we met- however she had so much shame and regret over that - it actually hurts a little that she is so much more shameful about her past role as an OW than actually cheating on her own H, the one that looked past her indiscretions and accepted her for whom she is mistakes and all.


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Halien said:


> I firmly believe that if big brother stepped in and mandated a law that cheating ends the marriage, every time, there would be a whole lot less cheating. You'll see a visceral reaction to this statement by some people who would declare it to be heartless to agree to this before marrying - and this shows you the true reason that infidelity is rampant. We are shamed into accepting infidelity as a society, because those who do not accept it are considered heartless.


Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with this idea at all, but where I do have a problem is why is OK if the other spouse tries to pull sexlessness into the marriage, they become emotionless, uninterested uncooperative unloving Un-understanding , Who knows what all.

Honoring each others sexual needs should also be in the Vows in my opionion, but we'll never see the day. Then when you hear men leave a marraige over SEX, he is crucified, judged, his kids may never want to see him again. I don't think it is fair. He definitely did the RIGHT thing over cheating, I wouldn't judge him a bit for ending such a marrage. 

I guess my problem is ...I think people should judge LESS about why someone wants a divorce, but yeah -cheating is wrong, because it is not honest, I am all for honesty and transparency to the max.


----------



## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

I would divorce my wife instantly over infidelity if it went all the way to a guy inseminating her with his load... short of that I might with her sincere efforts accept her back.


----------



## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Arnold said:


> I'd consider doing it Runs' way if it made sense financially.


I'm not sure you get my drift. I didn't mean she should work. That's a given she's never going to hold a job. No, I mean the other guy/gal - kick in a bit, pay the car insurance or something. That sort of thing. Pay to play.


----------



## uphillbattle (Aug 17, 2011)

Trust is such a huge factor in my marriage. I work too many hours to have to worry on a daily basis who my wife is ****ing. There is 0 chance in hell my marriage lasts 2 seconds after me finding out.


----------



## Wheels65 (Jul 17, 2011)

> I firmly believe that if big brother stepped in and mandated a law that cheating ends the marriage, every time, there would be a whole lot less cheating.


No, we don't need more government to "fix" our problems. Morality cannot be dictated and not every instance would go reported. People can work their own crap out, stay or leave its that basic but not always easy, nor would a law make it easier. 

I believe it would create a whole new series of crimes. Plus this, from my perspective, would only complicate the process of divorce more with burdens of proof. I know this forum has people from all over the world and I respect that and understand different views based on culture. I'm an American who needs less government...just sayin'


----------



## Rainbow_Dazed (Sep 28, 2011)

I think that cheating in itself would not be a dealbreaker for me. It actually has happened to me, and more than anything I was sorry that my now ex-boyfriend didn't come to me first about wanting to **** someone else. We didn't separate because of that one night stand but due to other reasons, and he's still a dear friend for me. He did a crappy thing, but I did my share of the crappy stuff too. And we were young, immature *******s both at the time - I more than him. I think that we humans are flawed and flesh is weak so things can happen - especially in the LGBT-circles where most of the people you hang out with are potential interests and many of your friends are your exes. 

I think the rest of the stuff involved would be what matters more to me than the actual deed of sharing an emotional or sexual connection. How long did it last? With how many partners? In what circcumstances did it happen? Was I lied to to what extent? In summary, what does the act of cheating say about his/her feelings and respect or lack of feelings and respect towards me. 

I would not have a problem with having an open relationship/marriage either, though the relationship I am now is closed and will stay closed as long as we are together. I don't care if my partner has other partners as long as there is an mutual agreement and honesty about what is going on. Just thought I'd write that out in the open too, since in my eyes it is related to how I perceive cheating.


----------



## Voyager (May 23, 2011)

I'm certainly in the deal breaker category--now. But I had never really considered it before. That said, it is now a firm boundary that was established because of my wife's infidelity. And as far as I am concerned, reconciliation is a once in a lifetime deal. Never again will I go through it. IF my marriage fails, and IF I find myself in another relationship, I will not tolerate being treated with such contempt. My wife gets a shot at reconciliation because she has taught me an important lesson about myself and relationships. 

Yet, I also realize that I share equal responsibility for the platonic, sexless relationship that we had. It provided the context. We spent years drifting away from each other, denying each other the emotional needs which we both craved in our own ways. We both found ways to deal with our emotional unhappiness. I insulated myself and found happiness in other activities. She was not able to do that and acted out by having one-night stands. There was certainly an aspect of passive aggressiveness there in that she has now admitted hoping I would discover them and end the marriage. I never did. I was too secure in my belief that I understood her and that she would never betray me that way. It's now clear how drastically we misunderstood each other. Even though I bear shared responsibility for our relationship, and perhaps even some for her feelings, she alone is responsible for her actions.

Oddly enough, I think it was my exposure of her affairs that led us to reconciling. I was perfectly willing to see the marriage end when she simply said she had been unhappy for years and wanted out. We were literally days away from filing the papers. But finding the betrayal led me on an emotional voyage that showed her how deeply I DID care and always had in my own introverted way. That, in turn, seemed to re-awaken her feelings for me. We are now 16 months into reconciliation.

I do think true reconciliation is rare and that most people who attempt it are wasting their time. But are there exceptions? Yes, there are. I'm not sure I'll ever be able to say that we are 'fully' reconciled. But I do hope that we will eventually be happy and secure within our marriage. We are moving in that direction. It is not for the weak of spirit.


----------



## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

i would love to say its a deal breaker but experience told me otherwise. that said, a repeat would be a dealbreaker. my wife was never "bi" until she had an affair with a neigbors wife. that kinda caught us both off gaurd. it turned physical during one night of heavy drinking at the neibors house while her husband and myself were both working. my wifes saving grace was that she ended all contact immediately and was completely transparent with me. she was appalled by what she had done. looking back we see there was an emotional affair, but how do you tell a straight woman that she is cheating with another woman? i wouldnt have believed it and she would have denied it. im just glad she loved me enough and had enough respect for me to be absolutely transparent and compliant with my wishes. any form of deception would have been a complete deal breaker.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Yes, infidelity is a deal breaker to me. I believe that anyone who says it isn't doesn't really understand what it takes to reconcile.

My husband and I are happily reconciling, but the marriage we had before is gone. That deal was broken when he cheated. Trying to hang on to what we had would have been a huge mistake. So I have said goodbye to the marriage we had, and we're working on a new one.

He also knows that if he does it again that is it - his ass is on the curb and he can kiss mine goodbye.


----------



## omega (Aug 2, 2011)

I told my H upfront and in the beginning that if he cheated and I found out, "you will never see me again." It's how I felt and how I think I still feel, even if I'm not 100% sure what it means. It doesn't necessarily mean divorce, it just means what it says, I think. He'll never see me again.

My whole life, I've always had this very strong belief that "I don't go where I'm not wanted." I made it clear from the start that to me, if he cheats on me, to me that means I'm not wanted TO THE EXTENT that I need to be in order to stay. 

He has told me that if I cheated on him, he would forgive me and would not divorce me.

I don't know if EITHER of us would actually follow through on what we've said. I also was one of those women who said "I'm pro-choice but I could never have an abortion, myself!" until of course I had an abortion. I think it may be in the same category - I can say I'd disappear, but would I, really? I believe I wouldn't stop loving him or fall out of love with him.

I am afraid that if he cheated, I'd do something stupid. No flames for that, please, I'm just being painfully honest.


----------



## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

Combining actual, physical cheating along with the various EAs she's had in the past would be a definite dealbreaker for me. No compromise.


----------



## HaHa (Oct 1, 2010)

Total deal breaker. I have been in the situation before and the day after I found I filed for divorce and never looked back. He cheated once and had a one night stand with a co-worker. It hurt and was a horrible time in my life, but it would have been even worse to stay and always wondering in the back of my mind.


----------



## ScaredandUnsure (Nov 17, 2011)

Part of me could possibly forgive infidelity, depending on the situation, how it was discovered (I'd be more willing to forgive if it was brought to me by my spouse without me finding out on my own), how the cheating person acted about it, if there was remorse, how much work said person was willing to do to earn back trust, absolutely NO lying, hiding things, secrets, etc, having access to all his emails, phones, etc, how much was invested in the relationship.

And another larger part of me thinks I don't even think I'd bother trying with that. I've been cheated on numerous times by a bunch of no bodies and yeah...it still hurt, I think I'd die inside if someone I loved with all my heart betrayed me like that.

So I guess for me, it really really would depend.


----------



## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

Runs like Dog said:


> I'm not sure you get my drift. I didn't mean she should work. That's a given she's never going to hold a job. No, I mean the other guy/gal - kick in a bit, pay the car insurance or something. That sort of thing. Pay to play.


So you want to be a PIMP?


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Any future cheating is absolutely a deal breaker.

A past infidelity which I found out about now is iffy. If she told me about it and wanted to work hard to save the marriage, I might be willing to try. Lots of details would be required in order to make a decision. I suspect a past affair, yet have no proof. She denies it but can't really explain the red flags. I have given her several clear opportunities to clear the air but she denies all.

So if she were to tell me today of a past affair, I might not be receptive to reconciliation because she has had more than enough chances to tell me.

If I find out from an outside source of a past affair, it is a definite instant dealbreaker.


----------



## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Runs like Dog said:


> I'm not sure you get my drift. I didn't mean she should work. That's a given she's never going to hold a job. No, I mean the other guy/gal - kick in a bit, pay the car insurance or something. That sort of thing. Pay to play.


No problem either way. If she works and pays to help out, fine. same with the other guy kicking in.
The main thing to me is that i have the ability to make an informed decision and do a cost benefit analysis.
And, of course any obligation i may have had to remain faithful is gone.
If you can really get to this point, where her actions do not bother you., I think yiu have healed about as well as possible.


----------



## CH (May 18, 2010)

Me, and I was the cheater too. I gave her the free pass long ago but it had an expiration date so too bad for her if she ever comes back and says well you cheated.


----------



## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

cheatinghubby said:


> Me, and I was the cheater too. I gave her the free pass long ago but it had an expiration date so too bad for her if she ever comes back and says well you cheated.


Why the expiration date? I assume you felt you had carte blanc with your own.


----------



## CH (May 18, 2010)

Arnold said:


> Why the expiration date? I assume you felt you had carte blanc with your own.


Nope, I did the deed and paid for it. At the time when I was at my lowest point I gave her the option to go out and have a fling to get back at me if she wanted to, she never did (well I hope she didn't lol).

At 14 years later, if I were to cheat again or if she cheats we both know it's over at that point. And there is no more get out of jail card, I gave it to her when I was at my lowest point after D-day and I would have forgiven her if she did use it at that point.

Now, if I cheat or she cheats, D is the only option. Although she has joked with me that if I were to cheat again it wouldn't bother her anymore as long as I keep the will and insurances in her and the kids name hehe. Again, I hope she's only joking around about this.


----------



## OhhShiney (Apr 8, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> Most poeple who have not found that their spouse is cheating say that they it's a deal breaker.
> 
> I think that most people who have been cheated on make an attempt to fix the marriage. Unless the cheater is a repeat cheater, infidelity is generally a sign of a huge marital problem that existed before the affair. Many people acually have a better marriage after an affair .... because they put a lot of work into fixing things.
> 
> In my case, if I my husband cheats again... that is deal breaker. That would be the end. Once, can be a symptom of a marriage in trouble. Twice or more is a symptom of a spouse with a rotten soul.


I'm inclined to say that I'm 100% intolerant but I've not been cheated on. I do know that people can work themselves out of the damage caused by an affair, as did my own parents. However, after seeing what happened, I vowed to be faithful in marriage. 

My first marriage ended after 30 years without any infidelity, though I was not exactly monogamous before my marriage, and before I had any serious committed relationships. I stopped the pre-marital behavior after I saw what happened to my parents. So, I guess I had a history of a form of infidelity, but was able to honor the marriage commitment 100%. 

I'm now in my second marriage. Before we got serious, my wife admitted she had an affair in her first marriage. She ended the marriage immediately, felt horrible about the affair, but said the marriage unhappy before the affair, and has not cheated since. She was cheated on by her second husband, and subsequently ended the marriage because he was a hard-core repeat cheater. So she's been on both sides of the situation. She is aware that I slept around a lot before my first marriage.

So, we begin OUR marriage with a checkered past. If I seriously thought there was a risk of my marriage ending due to infidelity, I wouldn't have gone ahead. We are quite happy, I have no reason to mistrust her. We both entered the marriage with considerable baggage, as would nearly everyone entering a marriage past mid-life. I'm not a saint, neither is she. I've been horribly burdened by a rash of insecurities due to the abusive nature of my first marriage. This has caused some issues as I had very low self esteem, and some issues with trust, but we've managed to work things out. It's been worth the trouble.

I believe my wife would NOT tolerate any infidelity on my part, as her history with her second husband was incredibly painful. I would be incredibly surprised if she cheated after her history. 

If there was infidelity, I'd have to fall into the category of either "there must really be something wrong with the relationship for her to cheat with me." --OR-- "she's a serial cheater, and there's little hope for us."" 

I'm not certain a 100% rule would be a wise decision, as I would be willing to work incredibly hard to figure out how to get things back on track; providing she was too. 

Life is too complex for there to be black/white rules. With human behavior as variable as it is, and happiness so hard to find, I think you subject yourself to a false dilemma by adopting a preemptive all or nothing rule. Nobody is perfect. Given the complexity we bring to the table as individuals, a relationship is all the more complex. 

There is far less likelihood that two relationships are alike than that two people are alike.


----------



## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Enginerd said:


> So you want to be a PIMP?


I want to be left alone. If you're going to screw around, bring something to the table, anything.


----------



## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Let me ask the question this way - are there any Catholics out there who absolutely needed to marry a virgin and the fact that she did everything except vaginal intercourse was not a big deal to you or you weren't concerned enough to ask.


----------



## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

Infidelity is a deal breaker for me. I say it now and if it were to ever happen i would file for D. 

I say that because, I would never be able to forgive him..

I am having a hard enough time with his porn use.. It is right on the deal breaker line.


----------



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Infidelity - emotional as known at the time - was not a dealbreaker for me.

Continued dishonesty - not showing regret - those types of continued behavior with no signs of any real effort to change - those were the dealbreakers.

Even now that I believe there may have been physical activities as well - I would have tried to work with her to fix things had I at least seen a consistent effort on her part to make things right.


----------



## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

cheatinghubby said:


> Nope, I did the deed and paid for it. At the time when I was at my lowest point I gave her the option to go out and have a fling to get back at me if she wanted to, she never did (well I hope she didn't lol).
> 
> At 14 years later, if I were to cheat again or if she cheats we both know it's over at that point. And there is no more get out of jail card, I gave it to her when I was at my lowest point after D-day and I would have forgiven her if she did use it at that point.
> 
> Now, if I cheat or she cheats, D is the only option. Although she has joked with me that if I were to cheat again it wouldn't bother her anymore as long as I keep the will and insurances in her and the kids name hehe. Again, I hope she's only joking around about this.


So, you get two strikes and she gets one? Seems fair to me


----------



## CH (May 18, 2010)

Arnold said:


> So, you get two strikes and she gets one? Seems fair to me


Yes, if I get a 2nd strike I'm out. As to being fair, I know it isn't fair but she chose to work it out with me which I'm grateful for because most guys would kill for a wife like mine (trust me I know).

I have told her, she should have moved on and I have never hid that from her. She's a better person than I am hands down.

What I'm trying to get across is that if there is cheating, more often then not it's better to just split up and go your separate ways.

We got our do over because she had a bigger heart than mine to take me back. But we both realize there will be no more do overs if either one of us cheats in the future because there is no way we could ever get over it a 2nd time. At that point, it's best to separate and go our own way, although she would come out ahead of the game though financially if we split 

It's hypocritical I know but if she did cheat, what would be the point of staying together at that point. Built up resentment of me from my cheating, or whatever reasons she might come up with. All this is hypothetical of course because we're happy with one another now for a very long time now.

But you never know, next month, next year or tomorrow things could change/happen to affect our marriage in a bad way. I never said i was a saint or played the holier than you card.

I was the cheater, I was caught (or let myself be caught). I made my bed and had to lie in it and my wife chose to forgive me. But make no mistake, I regret what happened and the pain I caused her. But that doesn't mean I have to give her a get out of jail free card at this point if she decides to cheat on me. If she wants to cheat, go for it and we can just move on with our lives separately. Will always be grateful and love her as my former wife.

I love her and would take a bullet for her, I would give her one of my organs if she needed one, if someone said cut your left arm off or your wife dies I would cut my left arm off without hesitating. I would do almost anything for my wife at this point but I would not give her the 2nd chance she gave me if she cheated.


----------



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

cheatinghubby said:


> What I'm trying to get across is that if there is cheating, more often then not it's better to just split up and go your separate ways.


I've often (sadly) wondered how many people leave this site with things intact - but hanging on by a thread - only to just have it all fall apart again a few years down the road.

I often wonder if I ever would have truly been able to trust my wife again. Its the lying that I think would really erode the relationship.


----------



## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

nice777guy said:


> Its the lying that I think would really erode the relationship.


that is the biggest thing to me. if my wife had an any point been dishonest with me, i would have felt much more betrayed and hurt. as it was, i just saw a problem to be fixed. the problem was an outside influence taking advantage of my wife, which is exactly the way she reacted to it. we actually came out stronger, more aware.


----------



## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

As'laDain said:


> that is the biggest thing to me. if my wife had an any point been dishonest with me, i would have felt much more betrayed and hurt. as it was, i just saw a problem to be fixed. the problem was an outside influence taking advantage of my wife, which is exactly the way she reacted to it. we actually came out stronger, more aware.


So, it was all an outside problem, eh? Well, that is easy to fix, right?


----------



## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Arnold said:


> So, it was all an outside problem, eh? Well, that is easy to fix, right?


yep. there was a little more to it than that, but i knew everything that was going on the entire time. looked like good friends, not an affair. she never hid any of it from me. and when we BOTH realized what it was, she stopped it in its tracks without me even having to ask her.(though i would have) the rest was reflection and learning.


----------



## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

As'laDain said:


> yep. there was a little more to it than that, but i knew everything that was going on the entire time. looked like good friends, not an affair. she never hid any of it from me. and when we BOTH realized what it was, she stopped it in its tracks without me even having to ask her.(though i would have) the rest was reflection and learning.


Nice!


----------



## Akinaura (Dec 6, 2011)

Arnold said:


> So, it was all an outside problem, eh? Well, that is easy to fix, right?


Actually, I was a fool and a bit naive about how the world REALLY worked.

In the beginning, my husband would come home from work, tell me about his day, and I would tell him about mine...leaving nothing out of it. At the time, we BOTH thought it was a good friendship for me, nothing more. How were we to know what an EA looked like? Especially with another woman??

Then one night, I stupidly got drunk without him around, and one thing led to another...

At first chance, I told him EVERYTHING, well, at least what I could remember. My husband asked a lot of questions, and some I didn't like answering but I did anyways because of how guilty I felt. I think if I had lied, or tried to deceive him in any way, our marriage would have been over.

It was MY DECISION to stop all contact with the woman. He didn't have to ask me for that condition, I told him that was how it was going to be because I felt my trust in her had been violated, and I didn't know if she'd try it again.

That being said, our marriage is indeed stronger for it. 

Infidelity can only be a deal breaker if both people within a marriage are not willing to work past it. I thank God a million times a day that MY husband was willing to work past it.


----------



## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Akinaura said:


> Actually, I was a fool and a bit naive about how the world REALLY worked.
> 
> In the beginning, my husband would come home from work, tell me about his day, and I would tell him about mine...leaving nothing out of it. At the time, we BOTH thought it was a good friendship for me, nothing more. How were we to know what an EA looked like? Especially with another woman??
> 
> ...


made for a good story though :smthumbup:


----------



## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

I think the absolutely best chance of getting past it is acting exacly as you did, provided there was also remorse and full acceptance of all the responsibility for the affair.
But, you are the exception ,in my experience.The blameshifting, lying, and downright cruelty that many WS demonstrate doom most marriages touched by infidelity, IMO.
Contrary to how I might be perceived here, IRL, I am very forgiving. I've had some really terrible things done to me , especially as a kid, and I was able to forgive when the person owned it and apologized.
So, good for you guys. You handled this well.


----------



## Dexter Morgan (Dec 8, 2011)

*Re: What percentage here consider infidelity a deal killer regardless of effort after*



YupItsMe said:


> Are there many or even a few members here that advocate in an absolute that infidelity is a deal killer regardless of post efforts of the betrayer?


For me, if someone cheats, even an EA, they are history.





> Isnt it sometimes or even often the case that the cheating spouse is simply not worthy of the painstaking effort to reconcile?


A cheating spouse isn't worth even lifting a pinky of effort.




> Does that change dramatically when there are children from the marriage?


To some degree. Like me, it broke my heart to think I'd have to leave them. And yes, since I'm the father, I'd have to be the one who doesn't get custody. Being a cheating huss doesn't give a mother a disadvantage unfortunately.

So I struggled for a couple months, but finally decided, I love my children, but they wouldn't want their father to be miserable.

So in the end, children are not a good reason to stay with someone that can't be trusted.




> What percentage of members would you guess would divorce without any further discussion if they were cheated on by their spouse?


In this forum, it would almost seem more would stay with a cheater than not. But they try to justify it all ways to Sunday, when, IMO, the only reason they are staying is out of desperation and just don't want to go through the pains of divorce.

Divorce is painful, but after its over, the smoke clears, and life is MUCH better.



> There are very small lapses in judgement like getting giddy with an attractive stranger while standing in line at the grocery store and then there is the serious desires to encourage an emotional affair.


Those aren't lapses in judgement. They are character flaws.




> Also does anyone here believe infidelity is a symptom of an issue that is the fault of the betrayed under any circumstances?


Absolutely not. People who are betrayed are not responsible for their spouses despicable character.




> Is it ever the fault of the betrayed that infidelity happened?


Absolutely not.


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Akinaura said:


> Then one night, I stupidly got drunk without him around, and one thing led to another...
> 
> At first chance, I told him EVERYTHING, well, at least what I could remember. My husband asked a lot of questions, and some I didn't like answering but I did anyways because of how guilty I felt. I think if I had lied, or tried to deceive him in any way, our marriage would have been over.
> 
> ...


Akinaura, your story is a success story in marraige, of overcoming. Yes, it was wrong, hurtful , maybe even deserving of a divorce as many would say here ...but you was remorseful, overwhelmed with guilt, you went out of your way to speak THE TRUTH , throwing yourself on your husbands mercy , and stopping all contact in good faith. 

When this is done in the way you did... I feel spouses would be foolish to throw it all away. This is not the story of a serial cheater . How many of us get drunk...most know we do stupid things when drunk . Personally I have never been drunk a day in my life - but I think I am in the minority. 

I would NOT stay in a marraige where my spouse was no longer in love with me or miserable -for whatever reason .....plenty can be as FAITHFUL with their body as the morning sun , not even entangled in a EA and still have no love for their spouses, resentment to the High heavens - What is that worth?...I would RUN from that, no cheating necessary. 

.... but I would stay in a marraige & FIGHT for it if he made a foolish mistake in the heat of the moment, it would hurt like hell, many tears & anger ...... but if he was SO TORN up over what he did, near wanting to rip his own chest out cause he hurt me, still loved me and his sorrow was as deep as the ocean in keeping me, I would consider it counterproductive and foolish to throw it all away...then I would be miserable for the rest of my life too!!! 

It just isn't always so black and white. 

Me & mine has talked about these things-just cause we talk about everything ! He says if I ever did that, it would rip his heart out, things would NEVER be the same- a place that is reserved for just "US" would be tainted with some black that could never be as pure as it once was ...... BUT he still wouldn't divorce me -if I loved him & wanted him & my sorrow was as I described above. 

I am hardly worried about any of these scenerios -we keep each other darn happy, just saying.


----------



## mrhappy2u (Dec 16, 2011)

For me, its a deal-breaker. I can work through just about anything (and have) including addiction, emotional distance, depression and so forth. But if my partner's solution is to bed down with another, my only question is how soon will you get out of the house.


----------



## Chelle D (Nov 30, 2011)

I think it would depend... It would not be a complete deal breaker if we would get counseling.
j


----------



## sharonND (Nov 7, 2011)

I agree with many others here that carrying on or engaging in a physical affair (intercourse) with another is a deal breaker. I love my husband and we have our issues but that would be the last straw with him. I have thought about this constantly also since my previous post where i disclosed our adventure to a strip club where he made me start to question my ability to trust him.


----------

