# Spouse + Clubbing w/ Friends = Legitimized Infidelity



## cody5 (Sep 2, 2009)

Why am I the only one that “get’s” this?

Some of you may recognize my story. My wife of 6 years and mother of my two children went on a bit of a post-partum party spree at nightclubs with her hot, married friend over the past 6 months or so. (Just the two of them, even though combined they have tons of girlfriends that could have made it them true “girls nights out”). I didn’t so much force her to end it as much as let her know that when she slips out at the last minute to “go dancing”, I’m no longer going to pretend I don’t know she really means “going w.h.o.r.i.n.g at meat markets until closing time”. Of course, it was all SOOO innocent, and I was the controlling jealous husband who couldn’t handle her “going out”.

I left this forum for a while (I felt like I overstayed my welcome, obsessing on this). Although the replies helped, I needed to hear from more than just a few people with opinions. Get a more statistically significant sample of opinions, so to speak. So I went on a few forums, including this one. But instead of posting the same question and waiting for replies to trickle in, I key-word searched “clubbing” to look at old posts related to my problem. Over the past couple of days, I must have read hundreds of posts related to clubbing, (or “going out dancing”, as my wife so innocently put it). Most of what I read was not necessarily from paranoid SO’s such as myself, but just innocent comments from people into the clubbing scene.

What an eye opening experience. I would NEVER have let my wife do this had I REALLY known what goes on there (I’ve actually never been “clubbing” before. Not my thing). I’d heard all of the stereotypical rumors, but I trusted my wife and wanted to be a good, trusting husband. After all, she’d just popped out 2 kids for me.

I will make a long story short by saying to all other ignorant SO’s such as myself: you’d better have 100%+ trust in your wife’s intentions, set ground rules, go with her occasionally to see if she can really have fun even with you there. See if she can enjoy herself there without flirting, grinding, kissing strangers, or generally partying and drinking with multitudes of strange men all night. Otherwise, consider her cheating on you the minute she walks out the door. 

I was AMAZED at what is considered acceptable behavior in nightclubs. I was amazed that people knew this type of behavior went on but railed against others who had a problem with their spouse partaking in it. Grinding on a dancefloor as though it were a handshake. Making out with strangers as though they were blowing air kisses, then moving on to the next flirtation. Dancing with strange men and moving onto another before the next song even started. Men grabbing asses, inappropriately dancing with girls they just walk up to. Women who were WITH DATES would be surrounded by horny men as soon as the date left for the restroom. Can you IMAGINE what happens when two attractive girls show up and start dancing together? (And my wife’s friend is smoking hot). 

If your wife/girlfriend likes to throw herself into that environment on even a semi-regular basis, she is out having affairs, whether there is an exchange of fluid or not. And ladies, if you think your husband/boyfriend is not looking for this “action” when he goes to clubs with his friends, you are SERIOUSLY delusional. Unbelievably, my wife tried to claim that in a cumulative 50 or so hours of hard-core clubbing, NOT ONE man ever approached her, even to ask for a dance. After reading all of those posts, that lie is so incredibly incomprehensible I don’t even need to have seen it happen to prove the lie.

This behavior is so seemingly acceptable, that I’m starting to think that when my sl*t wife said she was going clubbing, she actually thought I knew this went on and that I was OK with it. And she just started to freak a little when she saw I had a problem with it, hence that whopper of an unbelievable lie.

If Facebook = The Devil, nightclubs are relationship Hell. AM I THE ONLY ONE THAT GETS THIS?????


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## Lostandconfused (Jul 6, 2009)

mommy22 said:


> You can't dangle temptation in a marriage in any form. It isn't healthy and none of us are that strong. Being in a marriage unit means you no longer call all the shots without considering the others feelings in the matter. Great post.


Well, I've never done the club thing so I have absolutely "zero" knowledge first hand on what happens. I haven't read up on it either. BUT ... I do know human nature and I couldn't agree more with what mommy22 wrote above.

My only comment to you cody is to say that calling your wife names, regardless of how much you feel she deserves them isn't a way to generate wedded happiness or even common friendship. You may be angry, and it sounds as if it's rightfully so; but treating your wife to that type of verbal abuse to her face and now here isn't going to help you in any fashion.

Marriage isn't a war to be won, it's working together towards the same goal. Finding yourself "in the right" doesn't mean you'll find yourself *with* her. 

Just my $0.02.
Lost


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## cody5 (Sep 2, 2009)

I agree as well. My wife is a good person and I still love her, regardless of what happened (or not). She just went astray. 

But the hurt and anger....


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## Hopeful&Doubtful (Aug 24, 2008)

Hey Cody, I understand your frustration, but it may be innocent as your wife indicated. I am married and I do go clubbing with the girls at least 6 times a year. During my time at the club I've only had one guy try to approach me and I kindly turned him down. There are a few that will send drinks to me via the bar tender but nothing more then that. The girls and I have a great time and I go home feeling confident that I didn't do anything to humiliate my husband or bring shame to our relationship.

So trust in your wife that it may be as innocent as she claims.


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## cody5 (Sep 2, 2009)

Here's one for all of those defenders of clubbing who say that your wife could meet someone at work, the supermarket or a restaurant at lunch, so you're a jealous infant for having a problem with clubs. This post comes from a different relationship website:

"Last night me and my friend went clubbing, i ended up meeting this guy who brought me a few drinks and we ended up dancing, then he was grinding against me and was touching my chest, then he ended up fingering me in the corner of the club, and we proberly would of had sex if my friend didnt want to leave"

I've not seen a lot of that at my local Stop and Shop. Ladies, how do you know that's not your husband or boyfriend? You think this guy said: "bye hun, me and the boys are going to the club and I'm going to find a young girl and get to third base with her in the back of the dancehall."? No, the understanding was obvioulsy that the night was going to be some innocent flirting, at worst.

I'd like to think it wasn't my wife...

EDIT:
Sorry. I forgot a huge point of this post. Her concern had nothing to do with the fact that she was acting like this in a public place, but that the guy was married.


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## Lostandconfused (Jul 6, 2009)

Cody,

I want to confirm that your fears and concerns about your wife's clubbing are reasonable. There IS a chance of meeting someone "anywhere"; however, the chance of meeting someone and doing something inappropriate in a club is greater ONLY because of the emotional impact of the alcohol, the music, the closeness of the bodies, and of the general acceptance of entering a total stranger's "space" without overstepping boundaries is the prevalent attitude.

Having said that, there is the possibility that your wife IS innocent. 

IMO, your wife should be concerned with YOUR feelings and fears surrounding her going out clubbing. THIS imo, is the crux of the problem, NOT the clubbing itself. 

With love for another person comes the natural concern for the other person's well-being, their happiness, their comfort. She has OBVIOUSLY and BLATANTLY decided to ignore this and defend her actions because "she is doing NO wrong" at the club. That's all fine, but she is doing harm to you by ignoring and belittling your feelings on this topic and THAT is the "wrong" she is doing that she cannot argue or deny.

Yes, you could work on gaining confidence in her innocence; however, imo, you shouldn't have to. This isn't something she NEEDS, must have to survive, or that should be a priority for her above caring for your feelings.

That is the point I believe I would focus on when talking calmly to her. That her lack of concern for your feelings in this matter hurts you. In the end, it doesn't matter how innocent or guilty she is because by her very actions she is hurting you. There is no arguing the point that you hurt.

I'm sorry and I can understand how much pain and anger you must feel. I know I would too. Each one of us wants our feelings to count to those we love and you're NOT getting that from your wife.

Just my $0.02.
Lost


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## perkycarrot (Nov 4, 2009)

Wow! I wonder what type of clubs those people in those forums were referring to? 

I'm a single woman, and I've been going to clubs for years. I am not going to say that people don't grind with others while dancing, or that making out doesn't occur (I've done it myself) but you've kind of made it sound like some sort of sex show.

My single girlfriends and I go clubbing quite often. We do get approached by men. Most offer to buy drinks, and would like a chat. All you have to say is , "No thanks"- if you're not interested, and the guy will disappear.

Again, I'm not sure what type of clubs your wife has been going to, and I am sure that sexual activity CAN occur, but the club staff is pretty strict about the way people are conducting themselves. I have been in clubs where couples have been asked to leave due to too much PDA.

Most women (especially attached ones) go with clubs with girlfriends to release steam, get drunk, and dance. My married friends never pick up or dance with men while they're there. As a matter of fact, they have a much better time when their husbands go with. The husbands may not always like the club scene, but it can lead to 'after hour fun' for both of them.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

your wife went clubbing with her "wingwoman", that's not a girl's night out.

If it were men, we'd call that a pu$$y hunt.

So what if she didn't end up in the back corner playing baseball.

What she is after is getting hit on by all the batsmen. One day one or more of them will be waved on in.

She acting like this not so is really something. I'd have my radar up big time if I were you.


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## cody5 (Sep 2, 2009)

Thanks for the continued input M22. Even though my tales of heartache pale in comparison to others on this forum, I continue to struggle with this. 

No, I did not "catch" my wife in anything. But that was not necessarily the point of my post. If I caught her making out with someone in a club or leaving with them for god knows what, it takes the "legitimized" (if that's even a word) portion out of my thread and throws it to full blown infidelity. No excuses. 

My point was that married women clubbing is a green light for infidelity should they so choose. And to add your earlier point, even if they weren't looking, temtation is dangled. Do I trust my wife? Of course. Did that wife mentioned in the above post, who's husband was rounding third with that tramp trust him? Probably, or she wouldn't have fallen for the "I'm going out with a beer with my friends at the club" line. He had a green light and he sailed through it. No way to "catch" him. Clubbing is a purely legitimate activity, right?

Yes, as a couple of the posters above, and others in earlier threads of mine have pointed out, people DO go to clubs just for the dancing. But I might add they are in a minority. If they did go to clubs just for the dancing, is there a greater chance of innapropriate behavior than if they chose to go to the movies? Of course. A MUCH greater chance? I'd say yes. Does a wife need to exchange fluids to be cheating? I don't know. I don't think my wife did. But IF she was going to flirt, dance with, an generally party 'till 2:00 in the morning with strange males, it's pretty darned cloe to certain definitions of cheating. 

My wife was secretive about her nights out, claiming I'd get wierd when she said she was "going dancing". I say I got wierd because she was secretive. What came first, the chicken or the egg? The problem we have is purely related to clubbing. The same process that leads clubs to be "legitimized infidelity" is the same thing that leads it to legitimized "you can't do it anymore". At least not without a LOT more communication, ground-rule setting and control that my wife rejected.


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## cody5 (Sep 2, 2009)

Thank you M22. Your posts are helping me tremendously. 

My wife and I are working through this. Your opinions on the differences of how male vs. female brains are hardwired will help in future talks. 

I have not said harsh things to my wife. I get that out of my system via the anonymity of the internet. There is nothing in my wife's personality and history for me to believe she has the propensity for physical infidelity, particularly resulting from something as skanky as a nightclub hookup. She never showers before crawling into bed at 2:30, yet never smells of mens cologne either (and with the cheap cologne that surely is bought by the gallon by men in these places...). 

Yes, it may have been "just dancing". But knowing the woman she has been partying with (her "wingman" as a previous poster so eloquently put it), and the nature of "interpersonal relationships" at these places, my fears are otherwise. As much as I will draw the ire of those on this site suffering from true betrayal, my problem is that I just can't get the picture out of my mind of my wife sneaking off to drink with, flirt with, and party with strange me. She doesn't do that with me. I'm Mr. "Old Reliable" at home.

I just hate this.


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## SFladybug (May 25, 2009)

Coy

What would happen if you decided to go clubbing without her and found yourself at the same club one night??


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## nikon (Nov 9, 2009)

cody - you are indeed a jealous husband, no doubt. I am a married woman myself and go clubbing occasionally - I love dancing and music - and before I met my husband I've been going out regularly - and never went to bed with a guy from a club. I understand he doesn't enjoy dancing or share the same taste in music so I don't force him to go. He understands we are different and enjoy different things so he lets me have my fun while he's fishing or something he enjoys doing and I don't. Marriage is a lot about trust - I don't like your attitude towards your wife. I think if she wants to cheat on you she will do it anyplace - I have a strong belief about not cheating and I always make sure there are no wrong signals between myself and other men. I go out to dance and laugh, and yes get drunk and relax sometimes, It feels good to look pretty again and dress up (something my husband doesn't appreciate and takes for granted)... So, I think your problem is you don't trust your wife - not what she might be doing. She is most probably like myself just having a fun night out dancing. The less supportive you are of her needs the more likely is she going to cheat.


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## cody5 (Sep 2, 2009)

Thanks for your input Nikon. And thanks for judging me negatively against your more understanding husband. I need a benchmark against which to judge my emotional infancy.

Yes I am jealous when it comes to my wife's clubbing, I'm sorry to say. But of course, it's the more enlightened husbands like yours that get a wife that goes out dancing "occasionally", while the Neanderthals like me have to endure one who was on pace for almost 20 excursions this year (she started late, what with breast-feeding our youngest earlier in the year and all). And I'll bet your husband, who doesn't even NEED TO know where you are going and when you plan to get home, actual HAS that information before you leave. And although you'd be happy to share some highlights of your night, he doesn't even want to hear a little about your night out, while infants like me are cut off with "you know, we went to the usual place and we DANCED, what else would we do?" and it is understood there will be no more questions. And he gets a wife, I'll bet, who goes out with a group of girls, while jealous infants like me get a wife who goes out ONLY with her hot, married friend EVERY time. Of course I'D get the wife who's situation would look more like a "partners in crime" setup than a ladies night out. Funny how it has to work that way.

But of course it's not all bad. My wife has figured out how to go clubbing for 5 hours without spending A DIME. Bless her little heart. Don't know how she does that, but she's saving the family some money.

The best part about being your more enlightened husband, surely, is that if an uncharacteristic sliver of jealousy did creep in about the fact that you're not dancing at church social, but a meat market where every man in the place wanted to **** you, you are AWESOME enough to talk it out with him instead of accusing him of being a jealous creatin that can't handle his wife going out, then slamming a door in his face and ending the conversation. 

Jealous cretins like me envy awesome, TOTALLY together dudes like him.


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## nikon (Nov 9, 2009)

cody, i was actually trying to help here - i don't know what you were trying to achieve with this reply. My husband is far from perfect but one thing he is not is jealous (he also doesn't use offending words to describe me) and he understands i love going out (while he prefers to stay at home) - And yes, I do pay for my own drinks so he knows I am not taking advantage of horny men in the clubs... etc. But there is one thing you are wrong about - I actually have mostly male friends and my husband never showed any disagreement with that. I was always a bit of a tomboy (and he likes that about me) and I always preferred male over female friends. He even enjoys this as we find it easier to share friends and do stuff together - he'd let me spend a night over at a friends house no question asked. He knows I don't cheat and I would rather leave him than cheat. I am one of those people who really appreciate honesty and I expect nothing less from myself. Back to your wife... Do you think she'd really pop out 2 kids of yours and go cheat on you with some horny stranger? She most probably loves you but needs some time of her own, to release herself of the motherhood stress for one night and feel young again. Talk more, assume less. Maybe let her do it, be understanding and maybe she'll actually feel less needy to run from home so often.


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## Lostandconfused (Jul 6, 2009)

Nikon,

Your husband may not be jealous and it sounds as if he has reason to NOT be jealous; however, in defense of Cody I'll say the following:

Cody's wife has a lack of concern for his feelings regarding the clubbing. He has stated that he does NOT use these vulgar or offensive words when talking to her about it. She REFUSES to discuss it and dismisses his feelings without remorse for doing so.

Now, I've said it before and I'll repeat it. IMO, the crux of the matter isn't the clubbing itself but her lack of concern for his feelings. With love comes the normal concern for the other's well-being and happiness. She is bypassing all of that for her own pleasure and wants. From her lack of concern, his jealousy grows in proportion to her blatant disregard for his feelings.

Telling him to just let go of his jealousy, does not help. Telling him that because YOU are innocent and your husband doesn't mind, doesn't reassure him in anyway about his own wife. His wife needs to sit down with him, just as you did, and explain what is going on. Express concern for his feelings AND acknowledge that it "looks" bad that it's always just the two friends, they don't spend ANY cash, AND agree that she will let him know where she will be and when he can expect her. That is common courtesy. Again all my opinion.

THIS is the issue at stake.
Just my $0.02,
Lost


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## cody5 (Sep 2, 2009)

Thanks Nikon. I'm famous for misreading responses.

Look. I love my wife. I'd NEVER had reason to be jealous about her. She goes to dinner/lunch/movies/concerts with friends. She tells me about it before and after. A two hour dinner will result in a 90 minute conversation on how it went. Very open, nothing out of the ordinary. No jealousy. She even goes away on weekend trips with a few of them on an annual basis: the beach off-season, the mountains. We are a great couple. We communicate a lot. We love each other greatly.

But once the second baby got off of the bottle, she was out the door to clubs fast and often. She is secretive about it and claims no guys ever even APPROACH her and her partner in crime. NONE! ZERO!!. She is attractive and her friend is HOT. Out of a cumulative 50 hours in a meat market atmosphere, is that even POSSIBLE? That, is a blatant lie on top of the secretiveness. 

My wife is addicted to the thrill of the allure of strange men. The flirting. The party. The closeness. Some would call seeking out this type of attraction infidelity. It sure feels like it to me.

And don't you DARE blame it on me. I was raising babies with her. I thought she was content. If she wasn't, it was her job to approach me to fix it within the confines of our marriage, not seek a different thrill outside of it. 

I know she would never have a physical relationship with someone she met at a club. She knows that and abused that trust to initiate biweekly emotional "flings" with strange men instead.

That's all I've got. This whole thing is burning me out.


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## cody5 (Sep 2, 2009)

Thanks M22, but I'm not sure I can match up to the excitement of "new". That's one thing I can never be again.

And thanks also Lost. you articulated the problem perfectly (except for the no cash thing. That was code for the boys buying her drinks all night).


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## Lostandconfused (Jul 6, 2009)

You're welcome Cody. I did get that the no cash thing was the fact that "someone" was buying her drinks all night and isn't there some type of cover charge to even get in the door? I just didn't communicate it well.

I sincerely hope she wakes up soon and realizes that regardless of her "innocence" she's hurting you without remorse and that IS wrong.

Lost


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## cody5 (Sep 2, 2009)

I read what you meant after my post Lost, but again, I'm burned out on this. It's amazing how totally exhausted you can be when you go to bed and know ther is no chance you will get any sleep. This is sucking the life out of me.

That's the allure of the "legitimized infidelity" of clubbing. There is NO WAY I can prove ANYTHING. It was only dancing, after all. That's her story and she's sticking to it. No need to talk further.

Thanks everyone.


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## Josh145 (Nov 10, 2009)

Cody, thanks for sharing your story with us, I feel a lot less alone knowing that someone else is going through this too.

My situation is a little different of course, maybe i'll start a thread when i get a few moments, right now I have to pick up the kids and make them dinner, before my wife comes home and we continue last nights fight about her wanting to go to the club yet again.


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## cody5 (Sep 2, 2009)

I'll look forward to it Josh.

I think there is a simple solution. I should have INSISTED that I go with her on one of her jaunts. See if she can have fun in a club with her husband is around. Once the mouse is bored after 15 minutes, you'll know the fun only happens when the cat's not there (to steal someone else's analogy).


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

There is always the option of hiring a PI cody.


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## cody5 (Sep 2, 2009)

Initfortheduration said:


> There is always the option of hiring a PI cody.



Another excellent suggestion. And I'd thought of it. But this thread wasn't supposed to be about me and my problem. I've started and finished those. She's already "ended" her clubbing. I didn' even have to tell her not to. I just don't pretend any more that the line "I'm going dancing" doesn't really mean "I'm going partying with the boys in the meat markets until 2:00 in the morning". Even still, I don't know if she will ever end the desire to go out partying with strange men. A desire that is given free reign in the wonderful world of nightclubs

This was just supposed to be a warning to the world that nightclubs can be relationship wreckers. And I'm not against them. There are, amazingly, couples that have no problem with their spouses partaking in activities at these places that would make my partying wife blush. If your spouse can be honest with you, if she/he can have fun at a club in your presence, maybe they are actually going to dance. But if they want a little sexual excitement, clubbing can be a free ticket.

I'm going to start a movement. "It's OK to say NO"


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

nikon said:


> Do you think she'd really pop out 2 kids of yours and go cheat on you with some horny stranger?


I almost spit my drink out all over the laptop reading this!

Of course she could! Having children is no impediment to a woman who is inclined to cheat.

Not saying definitively that she is, but motherhood is certainly no argument that makes a guy feel secure.

It sure didn't stop my wife from cheating.


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## Josh145 (Nov 10, 2009)

Yup, can definitely happen, because that's exactly what my wife did. Leave me and our 2 kids at home at go fool around in the back corners and washrooms of the clubs.

I only know this for sure because she admitted it to me, just like Cody, I knew something was wrong all along but couldn't prove it. I guess I should count myself lucky she has a little a bit of conscience.


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## cody5 (Sep 2, 2009)

After my big speech about this particular thread not being about me, I get this. Scores of people have responded to this and other threads of mine (thank you a million times). I've read hundreds of posts in this and other forums under the key-word search for clubbing. But this is me, right down to being left home w/ 2 kids.. Josh, don't just dangle this and leave me. I need your help.

-How often was she going?
-Why did you have suspicions?
-Who was she going with?
-How did you confront her without it getting turned back on you for being a jealous Neanderthal?
-Did she show any other signs of unhappiness or potential infidelity?
-How can she tell you she wants to go again after that revelation?

I'm bleeding inside just because of a little "dancing". Because of her actions and lies, I KNOW it was more. As I said a little earlier, she's stopped, but it's only been 10 weeks ago. That thrill of partying with other men has got to still be there and I need to understand it. Help me man.


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## COFLgirl (Oct 9, 2008)

mommy22, 

Thank you for sharing what you wrote in your post above. I hope it helps cody. 

I have a feeling it wasn't easy for you to write.

Nonetheless, it helped ME in some issues I have been struggling with. I will be thinking about what you wrote here. So thank you.


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## KSimpson99 (Jul 13, 2009)

Mommy- wow. Thanks for the honesty. Hard to hear these things sometimes, and I'm sure it was hard to type.

Thanks.


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## Josh145 (Nov 10, 2009)

mommy22, thanks for posting that, it really does help me to try and understand as my wife still isn't very open about why she still feels a need to go there.

Cody, I should say one thing before I start filling you in on all the things you wanted to know, my wife wasn't cheating with a man, she was cheating with a woman.

My wife wasn't going out as much it sounds like yours does, maybe once a month for the most part, but just prior to finding out what happened it had escalated to I think 3 times in 5 weeks.

My suspicions were almost bang on to what mommy said, suddenly there were frequent secret phone calls, and this may sound funny but suddenly she kept her cell phone charged and turned on all the time when she rarely used it prior to this, yet there was no call history on it (she deleted it regularly), on a few occasions she was much later coming home from work than normal (meeting someone after work) and this may sound strange, but her sex drive completely ramped up, she actually wanted sex more than me.

She went out with a variety of friends, one in particular goes to clubs very regularly despite being married, but I believe she is more the tease guys for free drinks type, she's been cheated on herself so I can't imagine her going any farther than that. What my wife did do on at least one occasion though, was to have a regular 'girls night out' with a few friends and either bring along her 'special friend' or arrange to meet her there and none of her other friends knew what was going on, nobody suspects 2 women grinding each other as having an affair or questions why they go to the washroom together. Once I'd found out I called and accused a long term friend of hers of covering for her, and I have some respect for this friend so I was pretty hurt that she would do that to me. But she claimed no knowledge of it and I believe here now, can't say I believed her then though! 

To this day I really don't have all the details on what else she may have been up to on all those nights out, I don't really want to imagine it, she commonly went out at 8 or 9 and didn't come home till 4 or 5 so there was plenty of time.

On the confrontation aspect, well I didn't confront her, her guilt got the better of her, and she was almost hoping that I would find the idea of her cheating with a woman exciting and a good thing. I don't think she expected to be given 1 hour to pack her stuff and get the [email protected]@k out of my house! Of course we continued the good fight and reconciled before she ever left but she sure didn't expect breaking her vows to be a deal breaker.

She doesn't really have a good reason to go clubs at all, even when I inquire why she wants to go, nothing valid anyway, all i get is a i need to get out and have some fun, have drinks etc. I tell her there's no problem having a few drinks at home once the kids are in bed but she says won't buy that, and I've made it pretty clear that if shes going...I am too. She hates that idea, and she says she can't cut loose with me there, which is BS of course.

BTW, this all ended a few months ago, of course we had a big blow out a month or so ago when she said she was having a girls night out for her birthday and based on the people going I decided to trust her, but later found out at least 2 of the friends had brought their partners with them and she knew they were coming, yet I wasn't allowed to go.

Anyway, I'm out of time, gotta pick up the kids.

My suggestion to you Cody, is first of all, let sleeping dogs lie if she's not going anymore, and if she decides she wants to go, offer to get a babysitter and go with her.


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## cody5 (Sep 2, 2009)

M22. I read this earlier, but have been neglecting my job and my family with this lately. I needed to pull away. All I can say is WOW! Didn't see that coming. Throw eggs at you? For digging down into your soul to wake-up and struggle with sleeping demons just so you could help me? Please!

I initially came on this forum to find out what happened to me. How could I be struggling with this like I am if all my wife was doing was going out dancing? But there were too many lies. Little ones, but lies none the less. Lies of omission. And the sneakiness. I don't fear that my wife took it to a physical level. Not in the back corners of the club, or in a car in the parking lot or back at someone's home. My wife never showed those tendencies before or after. Am I in denial? If so fine. It works. But I will NEVER forget her looking me in the eye as she raced out the door at the last minute (before i could stop her) saying "we're going dancing". To know she was really saying "I'm bored with my drab life with you so I'm going out to party with some real men until the bars close" is a pain I will live with for a long time. 

You Wrote:
"However, you'll be your own demise if you confront her if she is quitting the clubbing and seems emotionally invested in the marriage at this point. Don't question her if she seems to be making a turn around. If that's the case, you've caught this before it escalates. Be certain about any suspicions before you throw out accusations."

I know her partying is over. I know she is emotionally invested in this marriage. I know she loves me and we have a life together and family that most people in the world would envy. I may reveal how I know so strongly that it is over should I choose to do my own mea culpa here in the future, but I know.

But I also know the pain is still there. The lack of closure. I want her to know I know what went on. I want her to know she hurt me. I want her to take some responsibility for what I am going through now. Apologize for it. Not the mechanics of a ritual apology but a from-the-heart statement of how sorry she is that she hurt me. I'll let her keep the facade of not having even talked to strange men on these outings. But she knew what reputation these places had. She knew what this was doing to me every time she slipped out that door and chose to ignore it for her own pleasure.

I just read Josh's reply (Thanks. I was curious about the two of them in the washroom). He says to let sleeping dogs lie also. Confronting her (again) will only lead to a fight. Nothing will get resolved. It was "innocent" and "that's her story and she's sticking to it". My life is good, if unspectacular. My family is strong. I need to fix this in my head still, but a can't jeopardize my family happiness and stability over it. 

Thank you for your heartfelt input.


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## Josh145 (Nov 10, 2009)

I had a really good discussion with my wife last night, and she's finally admitted what I knew all along, that the main reason for going to a club was for attention from both men and women.

It doesn't sound like much of an admission, since that was pretty obvious, but coupled with her finally giving some thought and understanding to how much it hurts me to have her go out like that, I have a whole new hope for our marriage.


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## cody5 (Sep 2, 2009)

Josh145 said:


> I had a really good discussion with my wife last night, and she's finally admitted what I knew all along, that the main reason for going to a club was for attention from both men and women.
> 
> It doesn't sound like much of an admission, since that was pretty obvious, but coupled with her finally giving some thought and understanding to how much it hurts me to have her go out like that, I have a whole new hope for our marriage.


Not much of an admission? I envy you. My wife is still denying any men ever even hit on her. All the times she went out. Two good looking women dancing by themselves. It's almost surreal that she expects me to believe it.

No, it's still my fault she had to stop her "innocent" fun. I'm still the bad guy. I don't think I can get past this until she accepts what she was doing to me. I've got to try, but...

You can now begin healing, Josh. Not me. My wife is going with "that's my story and I'm sticking to it". I've got to heal on my own. Cherish what you have, as little as it seems to you.


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## KSimpson99 (Jul 13, 2009)

Cody - I apologive - haven't read all of your posts, so this may have been covered.

Have you visited the places that your wife has been going? I know I don't get out as much as I used to, but don't assume the worst based on some horror stories from the internet about what might be going on at "some clubs."

The internet can be a very negative place. People tend to want to tell the world about all of the horrible things going on. But, when we are happy, we don't often feel the need to post about the good.

I would think its likely she's getting hit on - but that doesn't mean she's responding in the wrong way.

Trust me - I realize that not really knowing sucks. But I think people "out here" tend to lean towards the negative when in doubt.


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## cody5 (Sep 2, 2009)

Thanks KS, but I've got 2 older threads on this forum and one on another. 

There are two types of married clubbers: the innocent and the not-so-innocent. Each exhibit two VERY distinct paterns of behavior towards ther husbands (sorry girls, but the "legitimized clubbing infidelity" seems to be a girl thing). There are a couple of descriptions on this page alone of the not-so-innocent, and it is eerie how each could be describing my wife's behavior almost EXACTLY. Right down to how often they went, including Josh saying his wife went out "3 out of the last 5 weeks" before he confronted her. My words TO THE LETTER.

No, there is just about no other way to describe my wife's behavior other than "not so innocent". I don't think she had any physical connections, but as you know from your situation, there didn't have to be to make it "wrong".


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## KSimpson99 (Jul 13, 2009)

So, what do you do if she never accepts or owns up to what she's done and continues to say it was all innocent? If she's stopped going out, and other things are fairly normal is it really up to you (and others in your/our situations) to find some way to move on without that feeling of closure?

Sometimes I think my wife believes her own lies - truly believes that texting a guy 800 times in two weeks or lying about where she was going so I didn't get mad were totally reasonable things to do. I'm not sure she'll ever own up to how much the things she's done hurt me.

We may never get that apology.


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## cody5 (Sep 2, 2009)

KSimpson99 said:


> So, what do you do if she never accepts or owns up to what she's done and continues to say it was all innocent? If she's stopped going out, and other things are fairly normal is it really up to you (and others in your/our situations) to find some way to move on without that feeling of closure?
> 
> Sometimes I think my wife believes her own lies - truly believes that texting a guy 800 times in two weeks or lying about where she was going so I didn't get mad were totally reasonable things to do. I'm not sure she'll ever own up to how much the things she's done hurt me.
> 
> We may never get that apology.



Change a few words re: the circumstances and those are my thoughts EXACTLY. The lies were to spare ME because I wouldn't understand. 

That's the hardest part is the realization that she's making me go through this by myself. My problem. I have to deal with it. You are exacly right.

For my sitution anyhow, she got away with one. Good for her. Bad for US.


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## Josh145 (Nov 10, 2009)

You're right Cody, it was a pretty big admission, she also opened up about some of the stuff that happened while she was at clubs. All stuff I needed to hear, but none of it was easy to hear.

Ya know, I hadn't realized how long it's been since 'D-Day' but it was back in January so it's taken a full 10 months to get to this level of honesty, and that she finally has some grasp on how much shes hurt me and our relationship.

Marriage counselling starts in about 2 weeks, hopefully we can keep the momentum going, we still have no idea how we're going to fit her being bisexual into a monogamous relationship, but I have hope things can work.


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## frozensprouts (Aug 1, 2009)

Cody5
I am sorry that you are having to deal with this. I know from experience that living in a marriage where you don't feel you can trust your spouse is horrid. Things that may start out small "get into your head" and grow and grow. Your thought keep going over them same events ( it kind of reminds me of when I was a kid and if you listened to a record with a scratch, it would skip and repeat the same thing over and over and over) . you don't need that.
Does your wife really know how you feel? She chose to get married, and I alwys figured that when you do that, aprt of the "bargain" is taking the other person's thoughts and feelings into consideration when you make decisions about how you will act and what you will do. Would she be willing to have you go along too, maybe with a "guy friend' of yours and then she and her friend could drink and dance while you and he "kept each other company' ( so to speak)? 
It sounds like ( if you haven't already done so), that you need to sit down with her and have a really good talk about how you feel and why you feel that way- and see if there is some way you can come to a compromise where you are both happy- I can't help but feel that you owe it to each other ( and you child) to not let this fester any longer.


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## cody5 (Sep 2, 2009)

Hi Sprouts. Thanks. My wife stopped and won't be going again. Her fault. I never told her she can't go. But once it was "discussed" and she couldn't pretend we both thought it was innocent dancing any more, she won't be going. Her loss. If the opportunity arises, even with a large group of friends (instead of just her and her who... sorry, friend with questionable morals), she blew her chance with the lying. So yeah, communication is good, but this issue is dead for me (and her).

I'd like to hear other tales of nightclubbing woe. All you lurkers: sign up and tell your stories. Spouses need to feel empowered to tell their husbands/wifes "no". You can't go clubbing. It's not just innocent dancing (not without a LOT of goundrules, transparency, and a lot of witnesses,anyhow).


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## jkfox624 (Jan 29, 2010)

I'll give mine cody. About 5 years ago she was 26, all her coworkers and sister were 21 or a bit older. They of course were all single and clubbing all the time. It started out with "my sister wants to go out do you care if i go?" I wasnt a control freak sure, id gone out with my bro a few times. Then it turned into girls at work want to go out, or so and so at work plays in a band im gonna go watch them. There id sit with the 2 kids at home, being the good dad while the sweet wife was out doin god knows what with god knows who. 

I just wanna dance she'd say nothings goin on. Honestly the thing that kept me goin was everytime i "let" her go out when she got home we had the best sex of our marriage without fail. I went with her a few times, she seemed to still have a good time. A few nights though she'd say, you can head home if you want you look miserable. Then out of the blue the one club had a bikini contest. She comes home tells me all about it, how her and her sister were gonna enter. I came unglued, told her no way. 2 weeks later i see the entry form in her purse. I almost puked that night at the thought of the meat market getting there rocks hard over my wife in a bikini. 

She did let me go though, it wasnt near as bad as i imagined. Couple weeks later she went out with her cousins, i felt something odd that night. called no answer, called like 5 times then i checked her voicemail. Some dude says "hey babe where'd ya go we were having a good time and you just left" I flipped, loaded the kids up at 1 am went and sat by her car. Random dude walks out and sits around her car. She comes out gets in passenger seat checks her phone and he stands there. I get out and flip out, he runs i get her in car and take her home she says she doenst know what he was doin or who he was. after that it ended. Im sure bad **** happened, and our story evolves more over the last 2 years but i cant get into that know, so theres my story.


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## cody5 (Sep 2, 2009)

Oh. Looks like I got another bite Thanks JK. 

It's the "legitimized" part that kills me. As long as they are truthful in telling you where they are going, it makes everything OK. They didn't lie, they did go dancing. I just didn't ask them if the rush of the whole thing was the meeting strange men. Flirting with them. Partying with them. It blows me away that I "let" her get away with it as long as I did. 

The worst part of that whole episode for me is the memory of her looking me in the eye and saying "we're going dancing" before turning on her heel and nearly running away before I could question her (you know, interrogating questions like where are you going? When do you plan to get back? Are you sure you'll be safe?). She knew I trusted her and she abused that trust. Threw it back in my face. 

I know she still loves me. She just got hooked on something bad.


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## lurker (Mar 4, 2010)

Hey Cody.

I joined specifically for this thread.

As a wife who is currently going through a divorce, and as someone who LOVES to go to the bar, I can tell you that I have never been tempted to cheat on my husband, he trusts me 100% and I trust him 100% when he went to the bar. It was/is a way for us to burn off some steam, go out with the girls and look hot.

My husband has always been 100% supportive and said any drink another man bought me was one he didn't have too, ha. If my husband wanted to talk another woman at the bar, that's totally fine. Cause he respects me and wouldn't pull a stunt like that on me. We're getting divorced for other reasons entirely.

What I'm getting at is a blanket statement like that is entirely unfair to couples who actually can go out to an enviroment like this and have good clean fun.

PS - I went out on my bday without my husband, had lots of people (men and women) buying me drinks and when one guy started to hit on me, I told him I was married, and now he and my friend are dating.

We are not all out for a wild and sex filled 4 hours when we go out at night without our spouses.


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## cody5 (Sep 2, 2009)

Hi Lurker. Thanks for posting. I'm looking for all sides of this issue.

Different comitted couples view their SO's interactions with the opposite sex differently. Anything from the girlfriend who has a fit when her BF even glances at another girl on the street to those in full sexually open marriages with an "anything goes" attitude. In my relationship, hanging out a meat markets 'till all hours of the morning with the intent of meeting strange men, flirting with strange men, dancing with strange men, drinking with strange men and all-around partying with strange guys is out. Did my wife know that? I'm guessing she did, hence the sneakiness. You guys are obviously good with that as gauged by your husbands light comment about not having a problem with guys that want to **** you buying you drinks all night.

Sorry to hear about your divorce. Good luck with that. I do find it interesting, however, that my wife's former "wingwoman" is also in the process of a divorce "for other reasons entirely".


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## lurker (Mar 4, 2010)

cody5 said:


> Hi Lurker. Thanks for posting. I'm looking for all sides of this issue.
> 
> Different comitted couples view their SO's interactions with the opposite sex differently. Anything from the girlfriend who has a fit when her BF even glances at another girl on the street to those in full sexually open marriages with an "anything goes" attitude. In my relationship, hanging out a meat markets 'till all hours of the morning with the intent of meeting strange men, flirting with strange men, dancing with strange men, drinking with strange men and all-around partying with strange guys is out. Did my wife know that? I'm guessing she did, hence the sneakiness. You guys are obviously good with that as gauged by your husbands light comment about not having a problem with guys that want to **** you buying you drinks all night.
> 
> Sorry to hear about your divorce. Good luck with that. I do find it interesting, however, that my wife's former "wingwoman" is also in the process of a divorce "for other reasons entirely".


I definetly agree that different couples have different views. Perhaps your wife did go to the club for just that reason, the intent of meeting new men and getting some inappropriate attention. 

I have to admit, I'm curious if you're honestly looking for all sides of the issue or just those who agree with you, because your description of what my husband and I seem to be ok with is fairly hostile sounding. Again, neither of us go to the bar with the intent of meeting someone new/griding on someone new/having sex with someone new etc. Frankly, it's refreshing to get out of the house on occasion. When your need to go to the bar starts interfering in your relationship because you would RATHER be there, then that's a problem. (in my eyes)

Also, in regards to your comment that your wifes wingwoman is also getting a divorce for other reasons entirely, that seems perfectly likely. Couples break up and make up all the time for reasons that have nothing to do with going to the bar. Again, not sure if that was sarcasm or an innocent observation. I can say with 100% confidence, the bar/friends/women/men have nothing to do with our desicion to end our marriage.

Regardless, I hope it all works out however you two want it too. Good luck.


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## cody5 (Sep 2, 2009)

Thank Lurker. You were half correct about me: I do only want to hear from those that prove my point. But my point is proven even by responses like yours. I think I said this earlier in this thread: some people CAN go to nightclubs for innocent fun, and some people use it as a sexual playground (there are a few examples in this thread of men who got burned that way). The behaviors of those that go "innocently" behave a certain way, those that go to "cheat" behave in another. It's almost black and white. I don't think I need to repeat which of those 2 behaviors describe how my wife acted.

And I'm sorry for the anger in the comment re: buying drinks. That's a real sore spot for me. I'm not controlling with money, but I balance our joint checkbook. I can tell you at any time how much money my wife has in her wallet. She never spent a DIME while being at a nightclub for 5 hours at a crack, yet tells me not a single man EVER hit on her. Not ONE! ("I don't know what it is about me"). That's obviusly a lie. And I'm sure you're not as naive as my wife claims to be, so you know that every time a man comes up to you and says "can I buy you a drink?", he might as well be asking "will you go out to my car with me and give me a quick blowjob". It's good your husband can laugh about it. I don't know why my wife denies it happens. Same exact behavior, the intent and actions describe something else.

Does that help? And I'm sorry about the anger. This topic does that to me.


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## marcy* (Feb 27, 2010)

Wow, I'm a little conservative when it comes at going out party till late without your spouse. For me, night time is only for ''family time''. Only on occasion it's ok for me. I go out with my friends only during the day, or evening time. Since I have been married(6 years), I never have been out, only with my friends after 9-10 pm. This is the way I have been raised, and I like it. A simple life , not complicated. When you are married your life takes at least 90 degrees turn, especially if there are kids involved. I miss the time when I was single, but now I'm not single, and of course I am more mature than I used to be. Even if I miss that time, that doesn't mean I want that life back.


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## lurker (Mar 4, 2010)

cody5 said:


> Thank Lurker. You were half correct about me: I do only want to hear from those that prove my point. But my point is proven even by responses like yours. I think I said this earlier in this thread: some people CAN go to nightclubs for innocent fun, and some people use it as a sexual playground (there are a few examples in this thread of men who got burned that way). The behaviors of those that go "innocently" behave a certain way, those that go to "cheat" behave in another. It's almost black and white. I don't think I need to repeat which of those 2 behaviors describe how my wife acted.
> 
> And I'm sorry for the anger in the comment re: buying drinks. That's a real sore spot for me. I'm not controlling with money, but I balance our joint checkbook. I can tell you at any time how much money my wife has in her wallet. She never spent a DIME while being at a nightclub for 5 hours at a crack, yet tells me not a single man EVER hit on her. Not ONE! ("I don't know what it is about me"). That's obviusly a lie. And I'm sure you're not as naive as my wife claims to be, so you know that every time a man comes up to you and says "can I buy you a drink?", he might as well be asking "will you go out to my car with me and give me a quick blowjob". It's good your husband can laugh about it. I don't know why my wife denies it happens. Same exact behavior, the intent and actions describe something else.
> 
> Does that help? And I'm sorry about the anger. This topic does that to me.


I know I haven't read all of the thread, so I haven't seen the other men/womens responses in telling how they got burnt by their spouses at the club, but I completely agree that it would be a tender spot to talk about for anyone who's been in that position.

(I might go and read the whole thing now though)

I have to admit though, your wife is frequenting some seedy clubs if what your saying happens in there, actually happens. If my signifigant other was choosing to go to that kind of establishment VS a more respected one, I would be concerned as well. 

While I won't go so far as to say that I think every single man who offers to buy me a drink wants to have sex with me, you're correct in assuming that I'm not as naive as your wife claims to be, and that is in fact soley what many people are there for. Including some of the ones who do offer to buy me a drink, ha.

Regardless, thanks for the apology. I'm definetly not out to pick a fight, just holding out a hand for the other side of the coin, ha.

Also Deb, what you say is completely accurate. While I miss it sometimes (the freedom to go MIA and have responsibility to no one but myself) it's not a life I want back.

It's Friday night, my girlfriends are out at the bar (right now in fact!) and I am at home, reading this forum, eating popcorn and thinking about how much fun it will be to take my kiddo to the pool tomorrow! Much harder when you have a hangover.

Anyways, enough of my novel. I really do hope things turn out for you Cody! Good luck!


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Accepting a drink from a stranger does not mean I'm buying into the idea that he is suggesting a bj in the car, that night. First, I'd never assume that is what ANY man meant. How degrading would it be to assume that some exchange of money implied a "contract" for sexual favors--degrading to both men and women? 

Cody, you are a Neanderthal if you believe that an offer of a drink implies any expectation of sex, or you believe that accepting said offer implies consent to anything remotely sexual. Many people of both sexes understand that an offer of a drink is simply a way of attempting to initiate a conversation--with no further obligation or expectation attached. Just because we tend to initiate conversations with people we find sexually attractive, it does NOT mean there are any expectations--wow, that is so . . . well, primitive a way of thinking. If YOU think that way, at least be aware that there are many, many people who do NOT think that way--and the burden is on YOU to clarify your expectations, b/c the other person may not even be aware you HAVE them.

I'm guessing you are fairly young and from some type of background that would be very different from the world I have always inhabited. Yes, I suspect there are other men like you, but I am not going to treat every man as though he is so uncultured as to think like you do; many would find that insulting. I do not intend to insult you, either--I sincerely mean that. I'm not finding other language to express how very "old world" your assumptions seem to me. I'm 50, and have had a lot of life experience. Do I realize guys might "hope to get lucky?" Of course. I also know that they generally do not think that they will, that they expect nothing in return except maybe the chance to have a conversation with someone. I also know that in the course of that conversation, many guys will decide, "yeah, she's hot enough to bang, but not interesting enough for a more serious pursuit, so I'll see where this goes tonight." Women KNOW guys think like that but it does not mean we "must" regulate our behavior accordingly. Some of us will decide the same: yeah, hot enough to sleep with tonight but dumb as a rock (or whatever) with no further potential. Others will think, "hm, cute and funny; if he asks for my phone number, I'll give it to him." Still others will think, "ugh. he seemed cute but the first 3 words out of his mouth turned my stomach and thank god my girlfriends are here to help me get out of this conversation gracefully. . ." I can guarantee that almost NONE of the women accepting a drink think that it implies anything more than a willingness to allow you to approach us--granting you a favor, so to speak--which you could have gained without the drink if you had enough balls to approach us in the first place.

You may still have some growing up to do. Of course you are not alone, but it would be a mistake to assume that your way of seeing things is the norm when there are so many possible ways of interpreting the situation. In this day and age, women simply do not assume that men are as boorish as you seem to be--and I think it is unfortunate that the language to describe your way of thinking is so negative, when it may just be more about your opportunities in life to become more enlightened. 

And just b/c you think a drink suggests so much, and your wife knows you think that way, it does not mean she has to assume and behave as though other men think that way. She should not have lied (if she did; maybe she's just not even drinking, or her friend buys the drinks). But I suspect that the real threat to your marriage is that you are very insecure and imposing your will on your wife will be experienced by her as controlling behavior (and it IS controlling, b/c it's about your insecurities!) She may grudgingly accept that you are unable or unwilling to become more secure--and maybe it won't matter, b/c the issue won't come up again. Or, she may feel that she has to put up with your insecurities in too many cases, and over time, she'll just get sick of it, and she will cheat or leave. 

The point is, you have an opportunity to grow here (and that does not mean approving her right to go clubbing while you still feel insecure about it). So what if other guys want to f*ck your wife? That is no reflection on her or her behavior. As long as you continue to think it is, you will be unfair to her. Sounds like she's never done anything to merit such judgment. And it would be a much better conversation if you discussed why she may still feel the need to seek other men's approval (even if only the idea that she is still attractive); why a woman as attractive and together as she is does not already FEEL that way? Having that conversation--and encouraging her to TELL you when she feels unattractive, and when she has that urge to seek the approval of other men-now that is real honesty, but she can only do it if she feels safe telling you such things, and if you are going to make it all about YOU by responding with jealousy and feeling insecure b/c she "isn't finding you 'enough'" then of course she isn't going to be honest. If she "isn't finding your desire 'enough,' to make her feel desirable, it's about HER! Don't panic, don't judge--ask her what she wants, just sympathy, or something more tangible--be careful though, because none of us can ever make another person feel truly self-confident, and it is not your job to make her feel good about herself. Her attachment to you will grow when you show you are strong enough to listen without making it about yourself, and her self-confidence will grow as she realizes she has the courage to be fully honest--that's very empowering; lying b/c of our fears undermines our self-esteem b/c we feel cowardly and weak. 

I suspect that some of what I have said here will seem very offensive, at least at first. All I'm really trying to do is get you to see that you have a particular way of seeing things and you are making the unsafe and illogical assumption that your way is the norm. If you persist in that, you are making a mistake. If you accept it and work with it--even if that means accepting it as a limitation you have, at least right now--you will be moving in a more positive direction. Asking your wife to understand that you cannot get beyond this right now is very different than insisting that you are "right" and she is "wrong." Asking her to think about how her own insecurities about her attractiveness MAY have played into her need to go clubbing can be helpful. Asking her to consider a different response to such feelings--if they arise again--is more helpful. Accepting that she really was NOT looking for male approval/validation of her attractiveness (if she thinks about it and is sure that was not part of the picture) will be hard for you, but it might be necessary. I suspect she was seeking male approval--in a totally harmless way--but the NEED for that approval means she wasn't feeling good about herself, and that's a conversation she should be having with you, at least at first. 

Either way, good luck. I'm glad the "cause" of the problem has disappeared, but since I suspect that was not the real issue, I encourage you to continue exploring your reaction and her feelings to help your marriage grow stronger out of this incident, rather than weaker.


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## cody5 (Sep 2, 2009)

Thanks sisters, but I don't think you really understand what my problem is. It almost seemed odd that you mentioned how innocent an offer of a drink COULD be, then go on to explain how the bar hook-up process REALLY works. As though my problem was simply my wife's CHOICE of hook-up behavior, accepting drinks, vs. some other bar-w.h.o.r.e activity. A kind of "here's how the sophisticated pick-up actually works". I'm a Neanderthal for thinking "hey, can I buy you a drink" is current when that is so yesterday. 

My problem is that my married wife got a post-partum hair up her a.s.s and decided it would be fun to hang out at meat markets and party with strange men all night. You and others have no problem with a married mother of 2 having a little fun that way. See one of my recent posts above where I explain how it was obvious to my wife that it was NOT acceptable behavior to me and she knew it. She used my trust against me to seek inappropriate attention form men under the guise of innocent dancing. 

I just responded to a thread in the "Private" section where a husband posted email correspondence he uncovered between his wife and a male coworker. Seemingly innocent correspondence between 2 friends. But when you start to consider the sneakiness of that correspondence, it suddenly becomes an obvious affair. Same exact emails. Is there a place for spouses clubbing until 2:00 in the morning without their SO's in a committed relationship? I personally don't think so, but I'll give it to you for the sake of argument. Just like male and female coworkers CAN be just friends. But change the intent and behavior in either of those examples, and there is a level of infidelity that has been crossed.

I feel pretty confident that my wife never even kissed a man while she was out on one of these excursions, yet was just as unfaithful as if she were giving out hand-jobs in the back booths with a second guys tongue down her throat.


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## Bluemoon7 (Jan 27, 2010)

Cody5, I'm trying to understand your basic point. Is it that you consider the intention of a married person going out to get the attention of other males (or females) as infidelity? And the club is the place this occurs? That's a fair stance.

This is a very interesting discussion. Out of curiosity, I asked my H what he thought about a married person going clubbing on a regular basis, perhaps twice a month. He said he wouldn't mind because he knows I like to dance and he doesn't. Perhaps I am not typical, but I should mention that I am not the type of woman that welcomes unwanted attention from men. I know that they don't know me and are only hitting on me for superficial reasons, and I am not amused. My H and friends have witnessed me being pretty rude to men that hit on me. 

What's interesting is that I don't think it's really appropriate for married people to go clubbing on a regular basis, and even though I apparently have permission, I have never gone. It might be fine to go occasionally or for special occasions like a bach. party, but not as a regular thing. Lately, I have been having 'girls nights' about once a month, but we go wine tasting, hit up a happy hour, go to dinner, or to a sporting event. Would you consider this legitimized cheating?


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## cody5 (Sep 2, 2009)

Bluemoon7 said:


> Cody5, I'm trying to understand your basic point. Is it that you consider the intention of a married person going out to get the attention of other males (or females) as infidelity? And the club is the place this occurs? That's a fair stance.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## cody5 (Sep 2, 2009)

I once heard infidelity defined a something your spouse wouldn't do if you were present. Wouldn't act the same way if you were around. Wouldn't send those emails. Wouldn't say the things she says the way she says them. 

I am confident that my wife acted in such a way while out partying at these clubs that she would be mortified if she thought I could somehow "know" what went on. I don't think she was sitting on some guys lap with her tongue down his throat. But if I could somehow know the number of men that hit on her (officially 0), the number of men who bought her drinks (officially 0), the number of men she flirted with (offic...never mind, you get it), the number of men she danced with, partied with. (touched? hugged? kissed?). The way she acted.

I know, I KNOW! They could have actually just danced in a man free bubble all night. Talked politics and girl stuff between dances. Drank free water all night to explain not spending a DIME while at a club for 5 hours. Boring stuff, when you think about it. No wonder none of their friends ever wanted to go along. 

Just a vision (picture, video, thought) of a nightclub, to this day, makes me very uncomfortable. Bad places if you're not careful. They have no business in committed relationships unless you both go or are VERY open in communicating boundaries and expectations. You should not be sneaky when throwing yourself into an environment like that. And if you are...?


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## Dancing Nancie (Jul 1, 2008)

I have to say Cody, that it is your job to make your wife feel comfortable talking to you. Your constant pressure is never going to make her feel comfortable talking to you about anything important. 

I think your views on infidelity are not accurate, they are your views. It's apparent that you will not take in anyone else's view into account if it doesn't meet your own view. This is what I am curious about. 

I made this mistake in my marriage and saw that this was a very big issue with my wife. I had to learn to be a better listener. It seems you are not listening to your wife (or anyone else for that matter), and are trying to make her see your point of view without validating that someone else may have a valid point as well. You are going to continue to struggle with this issue until either two things happen. One you drive your wife away, or two you are willing to change and accept that other people may have a valid opinoin on the matter that doesn't meet your own.


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## psychocandy (Apr 28, 2008)

cody5 said:


> Why am I the only one that “get’s” this?
> 
> Some of you may recognize my story. My wife of 6 years and mother of my two children went on a bit of a post-partum party spree at nightclubs with her hot, married friend over the past 6 months or so. (Just the two of them, even though combined they have tons of girlfriends that could have made it them true “girls nights out”). I didn’t so much force her to end it as much as let her know that when she slips out at the last minute to “go dancing”, I’m no longer going to pretend I don’t know she really means “going w.h.o.r.i.n.g at meat markets until closing time”. Of course, it was all SOOO innocent, and I was the controlling jealous husband who couldn’t handle her “going out”.
> 
> ...


Hi Cody,

I know we've sortta had this discussion before. Like I said, I'm in the UK and I think you're in North America.

Are ALL clubs like this? Surely not?

Yeh. The UK has a bit of a binge drinking scene thing with women/men going out separately. Every reasonable sized town in the UK has a large population of scumbags who go out at the weekend, cause fights etc. Also, theres loads of men out on the pull so to speak....

But, most places are ok for women to go with in a group. Its considered socially ok by nearly everyone. 

Maybe its because the men in the UK are not so forward like this (or concentrating too much on getting as drunk as possible).

For instance, I'm away in Ireland for the weekend. Seven married blokes away for the rugby. We'll be drinking most of the weekend, might go clubbing. Considered OK - wife is fine with it. To be honest, I probably wont even speak any women let alone find somewhere the women are up for it. Not that I'd be interested in that anyway.

Anyone else from the UK like to comment?


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## chrisbx7 (Mar 5, 2010)

I have read almost all of this thread and I must put my story out there. I was married for 18 years and my wife started going out with co-workers for a girls night out about once a month. I didn't have any problems with this until my son and I were in the area and I called to see if she had any cash for us to get some ice cream. She answered her phone as I was walking in the place and told me she wasn't there. She and a "freind" left and went to do something else. Well, I saw her car in the parking lot where she told me she would be. I went home and checked the cell phone bill and noticed alot of calls to a number I did not know. I called and it was a man. To make a long story short, she went out all the time and if I said anything it was my fault for not trusting her. If I went with her she wouldn't even want me to stand by her and she never had any fun. Once she went missing while we where out and I couldn't find her for 2 hours. Everything got worse and finally I left. I found out later (from all her friends) that she had about 4 or 5 affairs during those times. She would go to the clubs with a group and have one of her men pick her up. I'm glad I left because I have found and married a great woman. We moved across the county and are happy. Whenever someone wants one of us to go out, we always ask the other if they want to go. This works out great. Good Luck! Remember though, if it's ever bad enough to walk out once, it is never going to be any different if you decide to go back.


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## Mommybean (Jan 22, 2009)

I've been with my H for almost 6 years now. Before I met him,I was out at the bars on a regular basis....not to dance, because I am not so into that. I was very into the local music scene where we were from, and I had a lot of friends in bands, and I enjoyed going to listen to their music. That being said...when I was approached by strange guys there, it was not for the stimulating conversaiton...it was for the attempt to hook up. If they offered to buy me a drink, I declined. For one, I was not interested in using guys that I was *not* interested in as drink tickets...and also, the fact is, when a guy approaches a female he does not know in a bar and attempts to buy her a drink, the overall intent is to get to know her better...and to find out exactly how far he can get with a drink or two. He's generally not interested in throwing money down the drain for a complete stranger for the sake of being nice (unless he is the guy in the bar that is THAT drunk that the world is his friend and he wants to share with everyone). I see no point in accepting a drink from a man...why give him the inkling that he has that foot in the door, especially if you have zero interest in him. All that does is put you in an akward position later. 
Now, the friends that I was there to support, who knew ME and knew I was there because I loved the music...yes, if they offered to buy me a drink on their tab, I accepted. They knew they were not getting anything in return. 
Even though my H trusts me 100%, I would NEVER feel comfortable engaing in this type of behavior with my H and kids at home. My H and I get very little time alone as it is, if I am going out, I really want it to be with HIM and not anyone else. Me and a GF might go to the movies, or shopping---but now that I am married and have a life, I don't miss the singles scene. About the only scenario I could see me going to a bar without my H at this point is if we were at home and I went to a gay club with my best gay friend, and honestly, an hour in to it, I would want to go back home to my man.


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## FebStars (Jun 29, 2009)

Hi Cody, I agree that dance clubs can be complete meat markets. I'll never forget the time (19 years old) where my friends and I went to their favorite club, I had never been there before, and there was a group of 40 years old women eyeballing us all night. 

The thing is, my GF likes to dance, so sometimes, even though I can't dance if my life depended on it, I get a few drinks and take her out dancing. To me, I figure this is good because I share something intimate with her and, an added benefit, I get to see how bad the dance club could potentially be when I'm not there.

The last time we went out dancing, just the two of us, we were surrounded by mostly drunken fools and about 10% "sex on the dance floor". What stuck with me was, my SO and I were dancing in our own little circle, and some girl comes over and tries to grind with BOTH of us! I laughed so hard at how much of a fool this girl was making of herself. 

Another thing: when my SO goes dancing with her friends, they usually bring 1 guy, then the sleazeballs at the dance club generally leave the girls alone, since they don't know which girl the guy is with. From what I've heard from her and her friends (including the guy), most of the guys that try to hit on the girls are just sleazeballs and it usually becomes a joke as to how the girls get harassed by these walking penises.

My opinion about why women go to the dance club:
- women want to pick up (usually if the women are single)
- women want to dance, and consider men with beer goggles staring at them a sort of validation. They might like the attention because of self esteem issues. In this case you can tell her you'll have a few beer, sit on the couch and stare, ogle and drool at her while she dances in front of you - this will just be like the club scene.  
- women just want to dance, and all these "walking penises" actually end up harassing.

Finally, if your GF likes to dance with her friends, there's always dance classes offered at gyms (hip hop, etc etc).


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