# I want a relationship. I want to be single. I...



## moth-into-flame

I can't make up my mind. I've been divorced for 2 years now - separated 4 years after discovering my wife's affair(s). We were married for 14 years. Her infidelity profoundly changed me as a person and changed how I view relationships - which I'm sure is fairly common.

After the breakup I jumped right into dating. I had more sexual partners in the 2 years post split than I did in my entire life before that combined. Not once did I develop any real feelings for any of these women (besides _liking_ them). I don't know if that's because I just haven't found anyone I really connect with or because I'm incapable of it. I believe I have built a wall around me to protect myself - as I don't feel I can ever allow myself to be that vulnerable again. I've heard the "you're emotionally unavailable" thing more than once from the women I've dated.

I haven't had a "girlfriend" since August 2015. Since I ended that - I haven't been searching one out. I kinda gave up. I just don't feel anything. I have been sleeping with a woman since the breakup of the last relationship - we had hooked up before, things got too serious, I bailed. She approached me again and said she'd be cool with just being lovers. I was hesitant but agreed to try - we've been sleeping together for over a year and are great friends. She's awesome - but I do not love her or desire a relationship beyond what we have. She's cool with this. We discussed the other night how much we enjoy our freedom (she divorced her abusive husband). She has expressed to me she's happy with us being lovers and she really enjoys the "great sex". We also have great conversation. Frequency is every second weekend. I have not slept with anyone else since we've been doing it. I don't know if she has or not.

I waffle back and forth on wanting a girlfriend and not. I am enjoying the hell out of my freedom. I have my kids Friday-Monday, and during the weeknights I don't have them I am enjoying working on my hobbies and avocation. I'm never bored or really lonely at all. However, I know the one thing keeping me from pursuing a real relationship is that my sexual needs are being met. I'm very high drive, and if I wasn't sleeping with my lover, I'd be seeking it out, and that would lead to a relationship. I'm very lucky in that a I have this lover who is happy with the way things are.

However I keep thinking I'm supposed to be in a relationship. I see everyone around me in one. I see beautiful women and think "I want her to be my girlfriend!!". However I realize that's just lust. 

Sometimes I think I really want a partner - but the truth of it is I am scared to death of a relationship. I have major trust issues which cause me to be emotionally unavailable, and I'm just not really willing to sacrifice my freedom, or give up a part of myself - which I feel I'd have to do - to have a relationship. I read the CWI forum, and see people in real life, and it just seems like the odds of a woman cheating are too high (men too I'm sure, but I'm not a woman, so not talking about that at the moment). Relationships seem like Russian Roulette to me. With more chambers loaded than not. 

I recently signed up for Match and had a couple dates lined up - I just bailed on them and stopped messaging women. I had a date with a beautiful woman all set and all I had was anxiety about it - zero excitement. It never went down and I was _relieved_. WTF??

I'm 40 though and not getting younger. I worry about ...should I be with someone? Is that what you're _supposed_ to do in life? Would I be willing to take the risk and give up my freedom for the right person - or is there no "right person" because I'm all f'ed up? Am I still damaged from the affair/divorce? Just not ready? Or is this the new me - and I'm one of those MGTOW? Is this the new reality - single forever and just hooking up to get my sexual needs met? Do I need to push myself out of my comfort zone, take the risk, give up my freedom and just take the plunge in hopes I fall in love and it's all worth it? Am I even _capable_ of falling in love? Do I actually want a relationship but I'm just scared, or do I think I'm supposed to be in one but actually I'm totally happy being single?

Ugh. I'm really conflicted and somewhat confused. Anyone relate or have any insight for me?


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## NothingsOriginal

1 word -> Counseling


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## moth-into-flame

NothingsOriginal said:


> 1 word -> Counseling


1 word -> useless.

The ex and I tried counselling during our false R - useless. I've been to 3 different IC - useless. What would I even say I was going for, indecisiveness?


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## browser

You say you're going to therapy because you're confused and you have a wall built up and you have no clue what you want out of life.

That's what a good therapist does- they help you figure yourself out.

In case you didn't realize it, most therapists are incompetant. If you've only gone to 3 you haven't gone to enough. 

Come back and complain about the lack of good counseling after you've tried a dozen.


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## moth-into-flame

browser said:


> You say you're going to therapy because you're confused and you have a wall built up and you have no clue what you want out of life.
> 
> That's what a good therapist does- they help you figure yourself out.
> 
> In case you didn't realize it, most therapists are incompetant. If you've only gone to 3 you haven't gone to enough.
> 
> Come back and complain about the lack of good counseling after you've tried a dozen.


Honestly, I'd love to. Unfortunately I just don't have the money to do so.

And yes - I've certainly realized the level of incompetence. It's disheartening.


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## WorkingOnMe

Highly doubt she's really that cool with it. But hey, whatever helps you sleep at night.


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## moth-into-flame

Is it uncommon to still be this...unsettled after 4 years? Are most people back in the swing - either with someone and happy or single and loving it and cool with that?


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## moth-into-flame

WorkingOnMe said:


> Highly doubt she's really that cool with it. But hey, whatever helps you sleep at night.


So she's lying? Why? And I don't appreciate the slag.

Back when we started out, she started to get serious. I put the brakes on and said I wasn't interested in this becoming serious - totally 100% honest. I ended it. She approached me a year and some later and said "I thought about it, and I don't know why I was pushing for a relationship - I don't want that either. Are you interested in just being lovers again?" I was hesitant but said sure. It's been over a year now, we've discussed it in detail since and she has expressed that she is happy with the arrangement. Don't need the guilt trip about that - seems that's your issue, not mine or hers.


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## Ynot

Don't sweat it. If you meet someone you will know it. In the meantime, don't worry about what society expects of you or for that matter other posters on TAM. Live the life you want to live. Enjoy your life on your terms. Your life is no one else's so don't allow anyone else to attempt to manage it for you.
I am more or less in the same boat as you. Although I am older (55) and only 2 years out of my divorce. As far as I know there was no cheating, but there was betrayal all the same. Currently I am just randomly dating and have no clue if I want to get involved in a relationship. Like you I was changed by my divorce. All of my fantasies about how relationships are supposed to work blew up in my face. Now I have a somewhat jaded view of LTRs. So I guess I am stuck with short term relationships for the time being. Who knows, maybe one of them will last, but I am not going to force it.
BTW, get ready for the STD naysayers to come out in full force shortly.


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## Ynot

OP, I would like to add that you are probably healthier mentally, than 90% of the population. In fact I would venture to guess that the vast majority of relationship problems arise from the NEED to be in a relationship. Many young people, jump into one because that is what is expected of them.


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## moth-into-flame

Ynot said:


> Don't sweat it. If you meet someone you will know it. In the meantime, don't worry about what society expects of you or for that matter other posters on TAM. Live the life you want to live. Enjoy your life on your terms. Your life is no one else's so don't allow anyone else to attempt to manage it for you.
> I am more or less in the same boat as you. Although I am older (55) and only 2 years out of my divorce. As far as I know there was no cheating, but there was betrayal all the same. Currently I am just randomly dating and have no clue if I want to get involved in a relationship. Like you I was changed by my divorce. All of my fantasies about how relationships are supposed to work blew up in my face. Now I have a somewhat jaded view of LTRs. So I guess I am stuck with short term relationships for the time being. Who knows, maybe one of them will last, but I am not going to force it.
> BTW, get ready for the STD naysayers to come out in full force shortly.


Haha! Thanks, that makes sense. That's kinda how I feel - like I'm really enjoying myself for the most part. I'm really productive at work and in my free time - I'm never bored and as I said, I enjoy my solitude. I really don't get lonely. I love my time with my kids and when I'm on my own I'm accomplishing stuff that's important to me. The Online dating thing - I always end up backing away as it just seems..forced. If something happens, I think it maybe should happen organically. Like in the elevator at work the other day - this woman just starts a conversation with me. Totally attractive blonde and she was flirting. It was first thing in the morning and I was NOT on my game, smh. She walked away and only THEN did I think of witty banter and all this stuff to say. Guess I should be better prepped for that sort of thing. Hoping you're right on the "If you meet someone you will know it." One thing I've learned is you just can't force it or even go looking for it - it just doesn't seem to work that way.

STD naysayers?


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## moth-into-flame

Ynot said:


> OP, I would like to add that you are probably healthier mentally, than 90% of the population. In fact I would venture to guess that the vast majority of relationship problems arise from the NEED to be in a relationship. Many young people, jump into one because that is what is expected of them.


Thank you. I am MUCH happier and mentally (and physically) healthier than I was when I was married. I'm actually quite happy. I guess I just need to know it's OK to be OK with being single.


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## EunuchMonk

Ynot said:


> OP, I would like to add that you are probably healthier mentally, than 90% of the population. *In fact I would venture to guess that the vast majority of relationship problems arise from the NEED to be in a relationship. Many young people, jump into one because that is what is expected of them.*


Ain't it the truth, brother.


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## ne9907

moth-into-flame said:


> I can't make up my mind. I've been divorced for 2 years now - separated 4 years after discovering my wife's affair(s). We were married for 14 years. Her infidelity profoundly changed me as a person and changed how I view relationships - which I'm sure is fairly common.
> 
> After the breakup I jumped right into dating. I had more sexual partners in the 2 years post split than I did in my entire life before that combined. Not once did I develop any real feelings for any of these women (besides _liking_ them). I don't know if that's because I just haven't found anyone I really connect with or because I'm incapable of it. I believe I have built a wall around me to protect myself - as I don't feel I can ever allow myself to be that vulnerable again. I've heard the "you're emotionally unavailable" thing more than once from the women I've dated.
> 
> I haven't had a "girlfriend" since August 2015. Since I ended that - I haven't been searching one out. I kinda gave up. I just don't feel anything. I have been sleeping with a woman since the breakup of the last relationship - we had hooked up before, things got too serious, I bailed. She approached me again and said she'd be cool with just being lovers. I was hesitant but agreed to try - we've been sleeping together for over a year and are great friends. She's awesome - but I do not love her or desire a relationship beyond what we have. She's cool with this. We discussed the other night how much we enjoy our freedom (she divorced her abusive husband). She has expressed to me she's happy with us being lovers and she really enjoys the "great sex". We also have great conversation. Frequency is every second weekend. I have not slept with anyone else since we've been doing it. I don't know if she has or not.
> 
> I waffle back and forth on wanting a girlfriend and not. I am enjoying the hell out of my freedom. I have my kids Friday-Monday, and during the weeknights I don't have them I am enjoying working on my hobbies and avocation. I'm never bored or really lonely at all. However, I know the one thing keeping me from pursuing a real relationship is that my sexual needs are being met. I'm very high drive, and if I wasn't sleeping with my lover, I'd be seeking it out, and that would lead to a relationship. I'm very lucky in that a I have this lover who is happy with the way things are.
> 
> However I keep thinking I'm supposed to be in a relationship. I see everyone around me in one. I see beautiful women and think "I want her to be my girlfriend!!". However I realize that's just lust.
> 
> Sometimes I think I really want a partner - but the truth of it is I am scared to death of a relationship. I have major trust issues which cause me to be emotionally unavailable, and I'm just not really willing to sacrifice my freedom, or give up a part of myself - which I feel I'd have to do - to have a relationship. I read the CWI forum, and see people in real life, and it just seems like the odds of a woman cheating are too high (men too I'm sure, but I'm not a woman, so not talking about that at the moment). Relationships seem like Russian Roulette to me. With more chambers loaded than not.
> 
> I recently signed up for Match and had a couple dates lined up - I just bailed on them and stopped messaging women. I had a date with a beautiful woman all set and all I had was anxiety about it - zero excitement. It never went down and I was _relieved_. WTF??
> 
> I'm 40 though and not getting younger. I worry about ...should I be with someone? Is that what you're _supposed_ to do in life? Would I be willing to take the risk and give up my freedom for the right person - or is there no "right person" because I'm all f'ed up? Am I still damaged from the affair/divorce? Just not ready? Or is this the new me - and I'm one of those MGTOW? Is this the new reality - single forever and just hooking up to get my sexual needs met? Do I need to push myself out of my comfort zone, take the risk, give up my freedom and just take the plunge in hopes I fall in love and it's all worth it? Am I even _capable_ of falling in love? Do I actually want a relationship but I'm just scared, or do I think I'm supposed to be in one but actually I'm totally happy being single?
> 
> Ugh. I'm really conflicted and somewhat confused. Anyone relate or have any insight for me?





moth-into-flame said:


> Thank you. I am MUCH happier and mentally (and physically) healthier than I was when I was married. I'm actually quite happy. I guess I just need to know it's OK to be OK with being single.



I feel the same way as you, all I can say is "I do not know" haha

Just relax, go with the flow, live your life, if love is meant your way, love will find you... 

I am no help. Simply stating you are not the only one who feels as you do.

Oh yes, also, I have been divorced two years as well, after a 15 year marriage. Love is not easy to find. Wounds take long to heal. Nobody is the same.


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## Ynot

moth-into-flame said:


> STD naysayers?


Yeah, some of these guys are totally reactive. They read a headline and get the vapors. They never bother to look a little deeper in to the story. If they did, they would realize your chances of getting an STD are actually less than having a car accident. For some reason it doesn't stop them from driving, but it stops them dead in their tracks when faced with an opportunity to have sex. 
Since you said you don't know if she has slept with someone else or not, I am sure they will jump on this with both feet.


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## sixty-eight

it's coming up on a year since I officially moved out and ended my 8 year marriage. (the divorce is still ongoing) For almost a year before that, we were married in name only, and part of that time was an in house separation. He was on drugs. drinking heavily, abusive, and I found out afterwards, also having at the very least an EA, probably a PA.

I waffle back and forth like this all the time. I'd love to be in a relationship, but i really value my independence and alone time. I like being the captain of my own destiny, but being unattached and high drive is a not so fun at times. I also have some concerns about picking another cheater, or another controlling abusive man, or someone who (in the eventuality that they meet) won't treat my kids well. I also feel like I haven't met anyone I've clicked with. 
I figure it's my new normal, and i'm trying to embrace it.
It may be unpleasant or lonely at times, but not nearly as unpleasant as my marriage was.

as far as having a FWB, I think you are correct that it has you in a holding pattern. Sexually sated enough to not pursue anything resembling a full relationship, and just barely lonely enough to feel that twinge when you are around lots of couples or an attractive woman. But even if it is preventing you from pursuing a relationship/love, is that a bad thing? If and when you are ready for something different, then you will move on. As long as both parties are consenting adults and aware of what it is, then I really don't see the problem.

you probably do need some counseling if you feel like:
"Relationships seem like Russian Roulette to me. With more chambers loaded than not." And the anxiety about dating. Concerns about choosing a similar bad person again are probably valid. However, anxiety so much that you feel relieved at a cancelled date seems unhealthy. But what do I know, i'm a homebody that often experiences relief at cancelled plans : )


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## moth-into-flame

Ynot said:


> Yeah, some of these guys are totally reactive. They read a headline and get the vapors. They never bother to look a little deeper in to the story. If they did, they would realize your chances of getting an STD are actually less than having a car accident. For some reason it doesn't stop them from driving, but it stops them dead in their tracks when faced with an opportunity to have sex.
> Since you said you don't know if she has slept with someone else or not, I am sure they will jump on this with both feet.


Gotcha. I just got tested a couple weeks back - all clean.


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## Bananapeel

Moth, I'm in the same boat only I don't worry about what other people may or may not think. I think if you meet someone that's amazing you'll know it and decide you are ready for a relationship. Not knowing now just means you haven't found someone that you are ready to commit to. Enjoy the single life and your FWB; there is nothing wrong with either of those.


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## GusPolinski

If you don't want or aren't ready for a relationship then don't have one. Who cares what you're "supposed to do" or what other people think you "should" do? Just be honest w/ your intentions (or lack thereof) and don't allow yourself to become "the other man". Sounds like you've already got a handle on that, though.

As for healing? Maybe you just need a bit more time and, if you rush it, it might not be authentic.

Either way, yes -- please be careful. After all, most people drive only a single vehicle... and it's usually the vehicle for which they're directly responsible for maintenance, etc.

Additionally, if you make a habit of riding around w/ people that tend to get in wrecks... well, you'll eventually wind up in a wreck yourself.


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## moth-into-flame

sixty-eight said:


> it's coming up on a year since I officially moved out and ended my 8 year marriage. (the divorce is still ongoing) For almost a year before that, we were married in name only, and part of that time was an in house separation. He was on drugs. drinking heavily, abusive, and I found out afterwards, also having at the very least an EA, probably a PA.
> 
> I waffle back and forth like this all the time. I'd love to be in a relationship, but i really value my independence and alone time. I like being the captain of my own destiny, but being unattached and high drive is a not so fun at times. I also have some concerns about picking another cheater, or another controlling abusive man, or someone who (in the eventuality that they meet) won't treat my kids well. I also feel like I haven't met anyone I've clicked with.
> I figure it's my new normal, and i'm trying to embrace it.
> It may be unpleasant or lonely at times, but not nearly as unpleasant as my marriage was.
> 
> as far as having a FWB, I think you are correct that it has you in a holding pattern. Sexually sated enough to not pursue anything resembling a full relationship, and just barely lonely enough to feel that twinge when you are around lots of couples or an attractive woman. But even if it is preventing you from pursuing a relationship/love, is that a bad thing? If and when you are ready for something different, then you will move on. As long as both parties are consenting adults and aware of what it is, then I really don't see the problem.
> 
> you probably do need some counseling if you feel like:
> "Relationships seem like Russian Roulette to me. With more chambers loaded than not." And the anxiety about dating. Concerns about choosing a similar bad person again are probably valid. However, anxiety so much that you feel relieved at a cancelled date seems unhealthy. But what do I know, i'm a homebody that often experiences relief at cancelled plans : )


This post is so on point. I'm sorry you went through such a terrible marriage - I'm glad you're free of what seems like a not good man. You and I sound very similar.

The "new normal" indeed. I really, really cherish my solitude and freedom. it's awesome.

And you're right about the FWB - it's a holding pattern for sure. But it's one I'm comfortable in. And the sex is dynamite. We have amazing chemistry - even the first time we did it, it was fireworks. And we have fantastic conversation. It's too bad I don't have deeper feelings for her. 

And you know what - the anxiety about the date wasn't even so much about the woman herself, it is because, like you, I am SUCH a homebody. Usually after I force myself to go out I'm happy I did - but I am so content staying home and doing my thing. I do all my socializing at work. I'm relieved when plans are cancelled too - date or not. It's like George Costanza said: "I've never gone to a meeting where I actually wanted the other person to show up".


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## Max.HeadRoom

I may have been lucky as I found a good consoler my 2nd try.

I was in your spot after my wife died in 2002. So much of me was dedicated to her & our life. I too vacillated between being alone forever and seek someone out of loneliness. 

My consoler help me realized I was putting too much pressure on myself. Short story I did what is called the 180 here. I worked on me and mostly tried to have fun. Re-found my life for me. I dated a bit & rode a crazy train for a few months and eventually I found a gal I could really be myself around.


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## moth-into-flame

Max.HeadRoom said:


> I may have been lucky as I found a good consoler my 2nd try.
> 
> I was in your spot after my wife died in 2002. So much of me was dedicated to her & our life. I too vacillated between being alone forever and seek someone out of loneliness.
> 
> My consoler help me realized I was putting too much pressure on myself. Short story I did what is called the 180 here. I worked on me and mostly tried to have fun. Re-found my life for me. I dated a bit & rode a crazy train for a few months and eventually I found a gal I could really be myself around.


That "someone you can be yourself around" is huge for me. I always feel like I have to put on a show or something...and I don't want to do that. Of course when you're first dating anyone you don;t want to be farting and stuff - but eventually you should be able to be yourself. I guess I'm still shaken from the marriage and there's a lot of fear there. 

I think the biggest thing is I want whatever happens (if it happens) to happen organically. Problem is I hate going out so it'll have to be when I'm at work (it's a huge company) or at the grocery store or something.

Glad you found a lady you get to be yourself around!


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## bandit.45

I'm in the same boat as you moth, except I don't have a FWB like you do. But don't sweat it. Four years is not all that long after what you have been through. Just enjoy life as it is. You don't need to change anything. I think you just need to be the best person you can be, be content and happy in yourself, and someone who matches you will eventually come along. 

People don't so much "find" each other as they usually accidentally "collide" with each other out of the blue... or at least that has been my experience. The deepest relationships I have had occurred when I wasn't really looking. 

Quit sweating it. At least you have a FWB taking care of you... 

Bastard...


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## Fishermanbear1984

My wife and I split up this week and quite honestly your life sounds perfect to me. Sex when and if I want it, no commitments whatsoever. I could see doing that quite happily for the rest of my life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Max.HeadRoom

moth-into-flame said:


> That "someone you can be yourself around" is huge for me. I always feel like I have to put on a show or something...and I don't want to do that. Of course when you're first dating anyone you don;t want to be farting and stuff - but eventually you should be able to be yourself. I guess I'm still shaken from the marriage and there's a lot of fear there.
> 
> I think the biggest thing is I want whatever happens (if it happens) to happen organically. Problem is I hate going out so it'll have to be when I'm at work (it's a huge company) or at the grocery store or something.
> 
> Glad you found a lady you get to be yourself around!


My crazy train was found on match as well as the other failed attempts. My now wife was a friend of my lat wife and I re-found her though bike riding.

I was actively looking for someone while doing something I enjoy. Any yes the 1st few dates always have that job interview like feel if it does not past quickly then isn’t that a red flag?


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## SunCMars

I will hit this subject on a side wall. The back wall is reserved for....................censored.

Listen, I do not think people change that much after passing the 25 year mark. You have been this way for a long time, admit it.

You say you are emotionally unavailable? I believe you and I believe this.

This may have contributed to the collapse of your marriage. Cheating by your EX was wrong and cannot be pinned on your hide. She did this. Not you. She should have gotten a divorce before looking for love elsewhere.

If you do eventually get serious, form a real LTR, an engagement and another marriage, you had better take a good look at yourself in the mirror.

I believe you are doing this, already.

Your EX needed to be validated by someone, if you did not "convincingly" step up, she had the excuse to cheat that all Waywards seek.

In reference to this Blog, Talk about Marriage, TAM, do not think that a large majority of relationships end up in cheating. The number of married women who cheat is low. Some reliable studies say 17 percent, some put it higher at 40 percent. These studies often ask this question: Have you ever cheated on a partner? This would include young person relationships, steady dating, and exclusive relationships.

These percentages gets rolled into Engagements and Marriages and drive the numbers higher.

Desperate people get advice here. They ARE NOT representative of the marriage state in the Western World.

Actual cheating in marriages are much lower. They are higher than we would like. I think the numbers are steadily rising.

You need to fine-tune your mate picker. Choose a lady that likes you "in spite of" your emotional un-availability. Your current hottie sounds nice. But I suspect she is using you for fun and sex...also. And she has other men at her disposal Not a problem, at this time.

No, you do not have to get in a relationship if you are not ready. If you meet the right women, you will have little control over your picker. It will keep you awake at night.....uh-huh!


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## sixty-eight

moth-into-flame said:


> This post is so on point. I'm sorry you went through such a terrible marriage - I'm glad you're free of what seems like a not good man. You and I sound very similar.
> 
> The "new normal" indeed. I really, really cherish my solitude and freedom. it's awesome.
> 
> And you're right about the FWB - it's a holding pattern for sure. But it's one I'm comfortable in. And the sex is dynamite. We have amazing chemistry - even the first time we did it, it was fireworks. And we have fantastic conversation. It's too bad I don't have deeper feelings for her.
> 
> And you know what - the anxiety about the date wasn't even so much about the woman herself, it is because, like you, I am SUCH a homebody. Usually after I force myself to go out I'm happy I did - but I am so content staying home and doing my thing. I do all my socializing at work. I'm relieved when plans are cancelled too - date or not. It's like George Costanza said: "I've never gone to a meeting where I actually wanted the other person to show up".












I feel like this sums up how i feel pretty well.

And maybe i would feel differently if my marriage hadn't been so terrible. Maybe i'm a product of my circumstances, and I need to to heal and i'll feel differently. I really don't know, but I don't feel compelled to therapy, or to self help books or any other kind of trying to fix it.

I feel like my social anxiety, my homebody-ness, probably is the biggest factor in my being dateless. I work with an elderly person, i'm not meeting anyone there, and i have my kids 100% of the rest of the time. I have childcare, if i wanted to go out, but i don't meet anyone to go out with because i always have the kids. Maybe other people get asked out with kids in tow, but i don't. So i could get a babysitter and go out to the bars and meet people that way, but it's not really my scene. I could get on Tinder, or try on line dating, but i, like you, want it to happen organically. So, it's probably not going to happen any time soon. I occasionally get the itch for adult human companionship, but it passes. I have friends, I hang out with my sister a few times a month. I'm content.

And i've tried FWB before, and it's just usually not for me. It might be different with a nice guy with no expectations, but it usually just ends up complicating my life more than dating would.
Congrats to you for finding something drama and expectation free.


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## farsidejunky

moth-into-flame said:


> 1 word -> useless.
> 
> The ex and I tried counselling during our false R - useless. I've been to 3 different IC - useless. What would I even say I was going for, indecisiveness?


Anxiety. Fear. Denial.


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## Ynot

farsidejunky said:


> Anxiety. Fear. Denial.


Of what? The OP said he was happy in his solitude and happy with his life. I think he was just looking for some reassurance that he was on the right path. I think anytime you get inside your own head, you can sink into circular reasoning and fall into an abyss. Personally, I think his head is on right.
Plus IMO the best part of counseling is hearing yourself tell your story. I think that is exactly what the OP has done here.


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## farsidejunky

Ynot said:


> Of what? The OP said he was happy in his solitude and happy with his life. I think he was just looking for some reassurance that he was on the right path. I think anytime you get inside your own head, you can sink into circular reasoning and fall into an abyss. Personally, I think his head is on right.
> Plus IMO the best part of counseling is hearing yourself tell your story. I think that is exactly what the OP has done here.


He said he felt completely anxious at the thought of going on a date with the woman from the OLD site.

Would he feel the same meeting up with a relative male stranger at Buffalo Wild Wings for a ball game?

From where does anxiety come?

Why is he refusing to acknowledge that he fears commitment?

He is more than welcome to continue to live in such a manner. I would argue that he would not be conflicted if he did not want a relationship on some level. 

I see anxiety and fear, with a splash of denial.

Take the advice for what it is worth based on the source, which is a shade tree relationship adviser. If he wants better advice, he should seek a professional.


----------



## Herschel

There is nothing wrong with feeling this way. I am ending marriage #2. I was in a bad spot after the first, had a couple of relationships and got sucked in with the great sex and solid homelife with my current stbx. I am 40 also and I have been contemplating on where I want to go from here. Do I try to get one last big contract and hope that sets me up for life, or do I just retire and move on with my life. There is that comfort level that I fear will be gone forever. I had always thought I'd have the nice nuclear family, a house in the burbs, good times and happiness. I realize that ain't happening now, which is sad, bit also takes the pressure off. I am still new in the separation, so, it's not like I am looking for love now, but sometimes I feel like there is a void. Maybe it will be different when I am settled back into the life I want to make now. Honestly, if it weren't for my kids, an RV would sound great 

There is no doing life right. There is no prize at the end. Nobody will care or remember. All you can do is try to make yourself happy. Just don't try to maintain a mold just for the sake of maintaining it. If it does strike, fear not.


----------



## sixty-eight

farsidejunky said:


> He said he felt completely anxious at the thought of going on a date with the woman from the OLD site.
> 
> *Would he feel the same meeting up with a relative male stranger at Buffalo Wild Wings for a ball game?*


OP said he is a homebody that often feels relief at cancelled plans, so, yes, he might.



moth-into-flame said:


> snip
> And you know what - the anxiety about the date wasn't even so much about the woman herself, it is because, like you, I am SUCH a homebody. Usually after I force myself to go out I'm happy I did - but I am so content staying home and doing my thing. I do all my socializing at work. I'm relieved when plans are cancelled too - date or not. It's like George Costanza said: "I've never gone to a meeting where I actually wanted the other person to show up".


----------



## WasDecimated

moth-into-flame said:


> Is it uncommon to still be this...unsettled after 4 years? Are most people back in the swing - either with someone and happy or single and loving it and cool with that?


I don't know if its common but I've been divorced for about 4 years as well and I'm still a mess. 

I'm 53 and I don't know what I want. I wouldn't mind a FWB but haven't come a crossed that. I did OLD for a short while and didn't meet anyone I was interested in. I also stressed about dates and was relieved if they'd get canceled. I'm currently not dating at all and don't go out much. Part of the reason is my confidence and self esteem is still low because of XWW's cheating. I'm starting to see a therapist and sort out some of this stuff. Hopefully I will get past this and start living again. I keep thinking that time is running out and if I want to be with someone, I better get started. XWW didn't skip a beat. Her and poSOM broke up and she's been on to someone new for over a year.


----------



## moth-into-flame

bandit.45 said:


> I'm in the same boat as you moth, except I don't have a FWB like you do. But don't sweat it. Four years is not all that long after what you have been through. Just enjoy life as it is. You don't need to change anything. I think you just need to be the best person you can be, be content and happy in yourself, and someone who matches you will eventually come along.
> 
> People don't so much "find" each other as they usually accidentally "collide" with each other out of the blue... or at least that has been my experience. The deepest relationships I have had occurred when I wasn't really looking.
> 
> Quit sweating it. At least you have a FWB taking care of you...
> 
> Bastard...


Haha! Thanks man. Yeah I'm actually not too worried about it. Just gonna go with the flow.

Indeed - all my male buddies are very jealous of my "predicament".


----------



## Ynot

moth-into-flame said:


> Haha! Thanks man. Yeah I'm actually not too worried about it. Just gonna go with the flow.
> 
> Indeed - all my male buddies are very jealous of my "predicament".


And more than a few male (and some female) posters on TAM as well. Enjoy!


----------



## moth-into-flame

SunCMars said:


> I will hit this subject on a side wall. The back wall is reserved for....................censored.
> 
> Listen, I do not think people change that much after passing the 25 year mark. You have been this way for a long time, admit it.
> 
> You say you are emotionally unavailable? I believe you and I believe this.
> 
> This may have contributed to the collapse of your marriage. Cheating by your EX was wrong and cannot be pinned on your hide. She did this. Not you. She should have gotten a divorce before looking for love elsewhere.
> 
> If you do eventually get serious, form a real LTR, an engagement and another marriage, you had better take a good look at yourself in the mirror.
> 
> I believe you are doing this, already.
> 
> Your EX needed to be validated by someone, if you did not "convincingly" step up, she had the excuse to cheat that all Waywards seek.
> 
> In reference to this Blog, Talk about Marriage, TAM, do not think that a large majority of relationships end up in cheating. The number of married women who cheat is low. Some reliable studies say 17 percent, some put it higher at 40 percent. These studies often ask this question: Have you ever cheated on a partner? This would include young person relationships, steady dating, and exclusive relationships.
> 
> These percentages gets rolled into Engagements and Marriages and drive the numbers higher.
> 
> Desperate people get advice here. They ARE NOT representative of the marriage state in the Western World.
> 
> Actual cheating in marriages are much lower. They are higher than we would like. I think the numbers are steadily rising.
> 
> You need to fine-tune your mate picker. Choose a lady that likes you "in spite of" your emotional un-availability. Your current hottie sounds nice. But I suspect she is using you for fun and sex...also. And she has other men at her disposal Not a problem, at this time.
> 
> No, you do not have to get in a relationship if you are not ready. If you meet the right women, you will have little control over your picker. It will keep you awake at night.....uh-huh!


Been like what for a long time? No, I wasn't emotionally unavailable in my marriage. I was open, committed, always faithful and loving. My ex wife got herself a lovely little cocaine habit and lived a whole other life that I didn't know about. "This may have contributed to the collapse of your marriage". Uhh, no. Cocaine, a lack of morals and self esteem, selfishness, entitlement and immaturity on my exww's part "contributed" to the collapse of my marriage. Was I a perfect husband? of course not. No such thing. And I never expected perfection from my ex. I was a good husband to her. And to this day she tells me that and expresses great regret. "It was the biggest mistake I ever made in my life and that hole in my heart will be there forever". She's said that in various different ways many times over, and to this day. I NEVER would have left my wife if it weren't for the cheating. She was an emotionally abusive basket case - but I would have stuck around until the bitter end - until she put another man's penis inside her. That gave me the ability to walk away from that toxic marriage with integrity.


----------



## moth-into-flame

farsidejunky said:


> Anxiety. Fear. Denial.


I get the first two...what am I denying?


----------



## moth-into-flame

Ynot said:


> Of what? The OP said he was happy in his solitude and happy with his life. I think he was just looking for some reassurance that he was on the right path. I think anytime you get inside your own head, you can sink into circular reasoning and fall into an abyss. Personally, I think his head is on right.
> Plus IMO the best part of counseling is hearing yourself tell your story. I think that is exactly what the OP has done here.


Thank you. I believe you're right.


----------



## moth-into-flame

farsidejunky said:


> He said he felt completely anxious at the thought of going on a date with the woman from the OLD site.
> 
> Would he feel the same meeting up with a relative male stranger at Buffalo Wild Wings for a ball game?
> 
> From where does anxiety come?
> 
> Why is he refusing to acknowledge that he fears commitment?
> 
> He is more than welcome to continue to live in such a manner. I would argue that he would not be conflicted if he did not want a relationship on some level.
> 
> I see anxiety and fear, with a splash of denial.
> 
> Take the advice for what it is worth based on the source, which is a shade tree relationship adviser. If he wants better advice, he should seek a professional.


Where have I denied my fear of commitment? I am absolutely fearful of it. I got burned extremely bad by the one person who was supposed to be the most committed to me. I think I'd be naive if I _wasn't_ afraid of commitment.


----------



## moth-into-flame

Herschel said:


> There is nothing wrong with feeling this way. I am ending marriage #2. I was in a bad spot after the first, had a couple of relationships and got sucked in with the great sex and solid homelife with my current stbx. I am 40 also and I have been contemplating on where I want to go from here. Do I try to get one last big contract and hope that sets me up for life, or do I just retire and move on with my life. There is that comfort level that I fear will be gone forever. I had always thought I'd have the nice nuclear family, a house in the burbs, good times and happiness. I realize that ain't happening now, which is sad, bit also takes the pressure off. I am still new in the separation, so, it's not like I am looking for love now, but sometimes I feel like there is a void. Maybe it will be different when I am settled back into the life I want to make now. Honestly, if it weren't for my kids, an RV would sound great
> 
> There is no doing life right. There is no prize at the end. Nobody will care or remember. All you can do is try to make yourself happy. Just don't try to maintain a mold just for the sake of maintaining it. If it does strike, fear not.


I now find comfort in my solitude and singledom. I used to find comfort in my nuclear family. Now? I can't even look at old pictures of the kids from when we were together without feeling pain. Not pain from losing her or not being with her - that's a good thing. But the loss of my nuclear family. The children's loss of their family unit. The pain we all went through and the fact that my children are from a broken home, and that I was (_we_ were) betrayed and lied to so badly. I look at pictures of those precious children and think of us waiting for her to come home - but she wouldn't, because she was out doing blow and screwing other men. That she could do that to her beautiful children...me? Whatever. I'm a big boy. I survived. But my trust is gone, and so is my faith in the idea that my monogamy will be reciprocated. 

I like your advice though - and I'm sorry you're headed for another divorce.


----------



## Emerging Buddhist

moth-into-flame said:


> I'm 40 though and not getting younger. I worry about ...should I be with someone? Is that what you're _supposed_ to do in life? Would I be willing to take the risk and give up my freedom for the right person - or is there no "right person" because I'm all f'ed up? Am I still damaged from the affair/divorce? Just not ready? Or is this the new me - and I'm one of those MGTOW? Is this the new reality - single forever and just hooking up to get my sexual needs met? Do I need to push myself out of my comfort zone, take the risk, give up my freedom and just take the plunge in hopes I fall in love and it's all worth it? Am I even _capable_ of falling in love? Do I actually want a relationship but I'm just scared, or do I think I'm supposed to be in one but actually I'm totally happy being single?


Why is the future so unsettling? You have it sounding like both your main and reserve canopy have deployed, failed, and there is nothing coming but ground?

It's the present that makes the difference... we are all a little damaged when an affair/divorce happens, being human causes that. As long as you are not harming someone as you work through your path, one can stay behind the clouds but eventually you will have to peek out as you pass through them and survey the landscape below hopefully before you enter into a new cloud of protection.

Years are like altitudes... you only have so much time before you come to an end of the journey. You really have to cutaway all those things that get in the way before you think about when your reserve is needed, but one who is mindful grows wings making the reserve (FWB) unnecessary.

Create your own updraft, a slower decent will aid you well... life is more width than length anyways.


----------



## moth-into-flame

Decimated said:


> I don't know if its common but I've been divorced for about 4 years as well and I'm still a mess.
> 
> I'm 53 and I don't know what I want. I wouldn't mind a FWB but haven't come a crossed that. I did OLD for a short while and didn't meet anyone I was interested in. I also stressed about dates and was relieved if they'd get canceled. I'm currently not dating at all and don't go out much. Part of the reason is my confidence and self esteem is still low because of XWW's cheating. I'm starting to see a therapist and sort out some of this stuff. Hopefully I will get past this and start living again. I keep thinking that time is running out and if I want to be with someone, I better get started. XWW didn't skip a beat. Her and poSOM broke up and she's been on to someone new for over a year.


The "time running out" thing is an issue for me too. But maybe it's OK to stay single. I'm happy that way now - but will I always be? Yeah, my ex didn't skip a beat either. Of course posom dumped her like a bag of dirt. She's NEVER lived alone. From her folk's place, to mine, to living with an emotional (and I'm sure physical) affair partner after I left her, to moving in with another guy she's now engaged to (for like 3 years now). Codependent much? Astonishing she didn't take any time at all to be by herself and maybe reflect a little. Pretty sad. I used to hate her guts - now I just have pity for her. It's sad.


----------



## Ynot

moth-into-flame said:


> Where have I denied my fear of commitment? I am absolutely fearful of it. I got burned extremely bad by the one person who was supposed to be the most committed to me. I think I'd be naive if I _wasn't_ afraid of commitment.


I think that goes back to the post by Sun C Mars, where he said that he thinks people don't change much past age 25, which I completely disagree with. I know for me, my whole belief system was blown to shreds when I got divorced. I think it changed me considerably. I too feel, that my naivety was destroyed by that experience and I am a changed person from who I was. I don't know that I will ever be able to commit to another again after the betrayal of divorce. Even if I do, the commitment would not be anywhere near the unconditional commitment I gave before.


----------



## moth-into-flame

Emerging Buddhist said:


> Why is the future so unsettling? You have it sounding like both your main and reserve canopy have deployed, failed, and there is nothing coming but ground?
> 
> It's the present that makes the difference... we are all a little damaged when an affair/divorce happens, being human causes that. As long as you are not harming someone as you work through your path, one can stay behind the clouds but eventually you will have to peek out as you pass through them and survey the landscape below hopefully before you enter into a new cloud of protection.
> 
> Years are like altitudes... you only have so much time before you come to an end of the journey. You really have to cutaway all those things that get in the way before you think about when your reserve is needed, but one who is mindful grows wings making the reserve (FWB) unnecessary.
> 
> Create your own updraft, a slower decent will aid you well... life is more width than length anyways.


Good post, although I don't know that the FWB is a reserve...we truly enjoy each other's company and the sex is dynamite. We're both happy with how the relationship is. Will that last forever? Doubtful. One of us will find someone else, someone will decide it's just not enough...whatever. But for now, we're both enjoying it for what it is.


----------



## moth-into-flame

On a side note - I have a coffee date with a gal Thursday. I'm not going to bail this time. It's kinda cool - it's a social date as well as a potential business meeting - which actually takes a little of the pressure off. And it's just coffee instead of a full on dinner and drinks thing. We'll see what happens.


----------



## moth-into-flame

Ynot said:


> I think that goes back to the post by Sun C Mars, where he said that he thinks people don't change much past age 25, which I completely disagree with. I know for me, my whole belief system was blown to shreds when I got divorced. I think it changed me considerably. I too feel, that my naivety was destroyed by that experience and I am a changed person from who I was. I don't know that I will ever be able to commit to another again after the betrayal of divorce. Even if I do, the commitment would not be anywhere near the unconditional commitment I gave before.


Me too buddy, me too. I think infidelity and the subsequent divorce can have 1 of 2 effects on you - it can weaken you and beat you down, or it can temper you. I'm willing to give a relationship a try - if I'm really connected and into someone - but I don't know that that armour that you put on afterwards is ever going to fully come off. Maybe. But right now, and in the past relationships I've had post split, when they ended, for whatever reason, I was like "yeah - that's cool. No biggie" (which of course infuriates the women). But that of course might mean I never achieve an actual real relationship. I don't know that you can without that full commitment and a true full surrender to the other person. At this point, I'm simply incapable of allowing myself to be exposed fully, or vulnerable.


----------



## Lostinthought61

why are we some how expected to follow a certain set of guidelines or rules about is expected of us, or about the right prescription for happiness. That in not following them your a failure, or not happy. its time to throw away all the social morays around happiness and contentment and follow our own path regardless of what people say. we need to define our own journey, our definition of what it means to be happy, and if that happiness comes in the form of solitude than so be it. there is a sense of peace that comes with the tranquility of one's self-determination to pursue persoanl goals. because in the end when your resting in that box, there are no mulligans.


----------



## MrsHolland

WorkingOnMe said:


> Highly doubt she's really that cool with it. But hey, whatever helps you sleep at night.


why do you doubt she is Ok with the arrangement? Or do you mean she may want more than fortnightly sex? 

FWB is a fairly common arrangement.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

MrsHolland said:


> why do you doubt she is Ok with the arrangement? Or do you mean she may want more than fortnightly sex?
> 
> FWB is a fairly common arrangement.


He dumped her, and she says she's willing to just be FWB. I just think she's likely waiting in the wings hoping it turns into something more.


----------



## MrsHolland

WorkingOnMe said:


> He dumped her, and she says she's willing to just be FWB. I just think she's likely waiting in the wings hoping it turns into something more.


Possibly. But they have been at it now for a year, she says she is happy to have good sex that all sounds pretty feasible. My guess is that a year is a long time to put up a pretense if she actually wanted more. Wouldn't someone just say "am enjoying the good sex but I want more". 

the FWB relationship is a great option for those that can separate sex and love/emotion. As I said it is a fairly common arrangement IME and works well for many, especially post divorce.


----------



## Ynot

MrsHolland said:


> Possibly. But they have been at it now for a year, she says she is happy to have good sex that all sounds pretty feasible. My guess is that a year is a long time to put up a pretense if she actually wanted more. Wouldn't someone just say "am enjoying the good sex but I want more".
> 
> the FWB relationship is a great option for those that can separate sex and love/emotion. As I said it is a fairly common arrangement IME and works well for many, especially post divorce.


For some reason, many here just can't imagine that there are women who feel the same about sex as some men do.


----------



## MrsHolland

Ynot said:


> For some reason, many here just can't imagine that there are women who feel the same about sex as some men do.


Broaden your horizons perhaps. It is very common for people to have NSA FWB after divorce. I did and I know of plenty of others that did/do. Many women I know are much happier to just have great sex but not have to deal with a relationship.

The biggest growth area in relationships in Aussie is the two house hold monogamous type. OK this is different to FWB but it is also a new/alternative to a full time relationship. Many want sex but not the time commitment/issue that go with a full time relationship.

It is a stereotype that women need emotional connection to have sex. "Liking" a man is just fine for many of us, we don't need love or commitment and there are certainly times in life where love and commitment is the last thing we want.


----------



## Ynot

MrsHolland said:


> Broaden your horizons perhaps. It is very common for people to have NSA FWB after divorce. I did and I know of plenty of others that did/do. Many women I know are much happier to just have great sex but not have to deal with a relationship.
> 
> The biggest growth area in relationships in Aussie is the two house hold monogamous type. OK this is different to FWB but it is also a new/alternative to a full time relationship. Many want sex but not the time commitment/issue that go with a full time relationship.
> 
> It is a stereotype that women need emotional connection to have sex. "Liking" a man is just fine for many of us, we don't need love or commitment and there are certainly times in life where love and commitment is the last thing we want.


It isn't my horizons that need broadened, but those who continue to cling to the 'emotionally needy or weak woman' model of relationships. There was a discussion a few weeks ago about some of the women who claimed Trump groped them. A few posters were claiming the women represented all of the "victims". They absolutely refused to see that some women do not view sex thru the prism of an uneven relationship, but rather enjoy the physical aspects of it. I have no issue with a woman who simply desires sex. I have met a few who told that after years of vanilla married sex, once they were free they couldn't wait to sow their wild oats. They said that was how they discovered what they wanted and who they are.


----------



## MrsHolland

Ynot said:


> It isn't my horizons that need broadened, but those who continue to cling to the 'emotionally needy or weak woman' model of relationships. There was a discussion a few weeks ago about some of the women who claimed Trump groped them. A few posters were claiming the women represented all of the "victims". They absolutely refused to see that some women do not view sex thru the prism of an uneven relationship, but rather enjoy the physical aspects of it. I have no issue with a woman who simply desires sex. I have met a few who told that after years of vanilla married sex, once they were free they couldn't wait to sow their wild oats. They said that was how they discovered what they wanted and who they are.


So for clarity you are one that does understand that women can feel the same about sex as men do? 

Leaving aside groping by a yobbo, yuk.


----------



## Ynot

MrsHolland said:


> So for clarity you are one that does understand that women can feel the same about sex as men do?
> 
> Leaving aside groping by a yobbo, yuk.


Yes. I don't slvt shame women who enjoy sex as a physical activity and don't need to attach emotionally. It is who they are and there is nothing wrong with it.


----------



## BetrayedDad

moth-into-flame said:


> Or is this the new me - and I'm one of those MGTOW? Is this the new reality - single forever and just hooking up to get my sexual needs met?


Idk man, I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder. For many a dude, trapped in a sexless marriage with a nagging wife using him as a paycheck, your current situation would be HEAVEN to him.


----------



## moth-into-flame

WorkingOnMe said:


> He dumped her, and she says she's willing to just be FWB. I just think she's likely waiting in the wings hoping it turns into something more.


I didn't "dump her" She approached me initially wanting purely a sexual relationship. That's why I went for it. She turned it into a boyfriend/girlfriend thing and I pulled the reigns. 

You might be right about the second part, but as I said, she expressed to ME a few weeks ago how happy she is single and that she enjoys what we have. I have not led her on, I've been 100% honest and my integrity is intact.


----------



## moth-into-flame

Ynot said:


> For some reason, many here just can't imagine that there are women who feel the same about sex as some men do.


She's a very high drive, sexual person who needs it. We have amazing sex and great conversation and there's no drama. I don't understand why a woman can't be happy with this arrangement either. Clearly it's not for everyone, but obviously there are women that it does work for.


----------



## moth-into-flame

Had a first date with a woman I met on ******* yesterday - just coffee. She's a child therapist. She was late, which stressed her out. It went well - lots of conversation. I couldn't tell if she was just nervous or if she's high-energy/uppity. She laughed a lot and got kinda loud a few times. Lol. We agreed to another date next week, this time drinks in the evening. Hopefully by the second date I'll know if there's chemistry. She texted me last night saying she had a great time and is looking forward to the next time. I was pretty chill and confident...I'm not really too fussed any more with it all. She's 7 years my junior, 2 kids same age as mine.

A bit apprehensive as I know if I pursue a relationship I'll need to end things with FWB - but I don't want to throw that away for something that will fizzle in short order. I guess that's selfish. 

Oh well, at least I actually went out and did it this time.


----------



## tailrider3

So...about 9yrs or so ago I was in South Africa for work. They had all of these fridge magnets in a shop that actually had very profound sayings on them. One of them has stuck with me after all of these years. It was "Love like you have never been hurt...". Set yourself free from yourself as you are the only one that holds you back in life.


----------



## MrsHolland

moth-into-flame said:


> She's a very high drive, sexual person who needs it. We have amazing sex and great conversation and there's no drama. I don't understand why a woman can't be happy with this arrangement either. Clearly it's not for everyone, but obviously there are women that it does work for.


There are plenty of women that are happy with this sort of arrangement and actually prefer it. This is post divorce life and it can be a heap of fun.

I had a FWB years ago, we would go for a pedal, go back to his place for some great sex and then he would bake me a cake while we chatted. I never stayed over. It was perfect. We both acknowledge we liked each other but did not love each other and that it would end if/when one of us met someone serious. There is a lot to be said for NSA sex if it is done with respect and honesty. 

All the best with your next date.


----------



## BlueWoman

moth-into-flame said:


> A bit apprehensive as I know if I pursue a relationship I'll need to end things with FWB - but I don't want to throw that away for something that will fizzle in short order. I guess that's selfish.


Don't borrow trouble. You have made it clear that you don't have romantic feelings with your FWB and as long as it's clear that there is no commitment to monogamy, then you need to not worry about things that might not happen. 

You've been on one date. That does not make a relationship. 


Anyway, that's not why I jumped in here. I jumped in here because I get it. I don't want a relationship either. I don't want to share my bed, I don't want to clean up after someone, I don't want to watch shows I don't like, I don't want remind someone to put down the toilet seat. I am no mood for compromise. And apparently I am willing to forgo sex to keep my freedom. And it's funny, because I liked being married in many ways, but I know a lot of it was because I loved being in love. But now that I am not, I am not eager to do it again. The betrayal was too deep and in truth, you just can't tell. You can't guarantee that a relationship will last forever and that you both will work on it. And so it's a lot of emotion and sacrifice with an uncertain outcome. Or maybe I feel that way because I came out the loser. Or maybe two years is not enough time, I don't know. I just know I feel the same way you do.


----------



## moth-into-flame

MrsHolland said:


> There are plenty of women that are happy with this sort of arrangement and actually prefer it. This is post divorce life and it can be a heap of fun.
> 
> I had a FWB years ago, we would go for a pedal, go back to his place for some great sex and then he would bake me a cake while we chatted. I never stayed over. It was perfect. We both acknowledge we liked each other but did not love each other and that it would end if/when one of us met someone serious. There is a lot to be said for NSA sex if it is done with respect and honesty.
> 
> All the best with your next date.


Cake and sex and no strings attached. Sounds perfect!


----------



## moth-into-flame

BlueWoman said:


> Don't borrow trouble. You have made it clear that you don't have romantic feelings with your FWB and as long as it's clear that there is no commitment to monogamy, then you need to not worry about things that might not happen.
> 
> You've been on one date. That does not make a relationship.
> 
> 
> Anyway, that's not why I jumped in here. I jumped in here because I get it. I don't want a relationship either. I don't want to share my bed, I don't want to clean up after someone, I don't want to watch shows I don't like, I don't want remind someone to put down the toilet seat. I am no mood for compromise. And apparently I am willing to forgo sex to keep my freedom. And it's funny, because I liked being married in many ways, but I know a lot of it was because I loved being in love. But now that I am not, I am not eager to do it again. The betrayal was too deep and in truth, you just can't tell. You can't guarantee that a relationship will last forever and that you both will work on it. And so it's a lot of emotion and sacrifice with an uncertain outcome. Or maybe I feel that way because I came out the loser. Or maybe two years is not enough time, I don't know. I just know I feel the same way you do.


I hear that. Being single really kinda rocks - that freedom you gain after a divorce is really, really something beautiful and I'm loathe to give it up.

On another note - don't consider yourself the "loser". If you are no longer tethered to a cheater (I'm assuming that's what you meant by "betrayal"), and you now have your freedom, I'd say you're the winner. You've discovered your self worth (and that it's high) and that you aren't willing to compromise your newfound sense of self for a "maybe". Focus on you, figure out what your passions are... be selfish. Love yourself. You're no loser. People who cheat on their spouses and throw their lives away are losers. Case in point, my ex wife. What a sad person. I no longer have anger towards her - just pity.


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## MrsHolland

moth-into-flame said:


> Cake and sex and no strings attached. Sounds perfect!


Oh you forgot the cycling. Cake, sex, cycling with NSA, the perfect trifecta :x


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