# Emotionally Unavailable and Passive Aggressive



## sarcasmo (Feb 1, 2013)

If only I was physically abusive I might be the perfect husband!

OK, so I'm sure some of you may be familiar with my other threads, but I'm trying to isolate my issues from the bigger picture. I'm not looking for "move on" or "blow up the affair" advice. I realize the marriage is over and I'm trying to move on, but I still have questions regarding my role in the collapse of my marriage. We are seeing a marriage counselor next week and we are going to discuss our issues, as well as what's best for the kids while we move on with the D. 

I'm looking for a bit more insight into the marriage issues, specifically my role in them. I know I'm a "Nice Guy". I know I'm passive and I fear my wife. I'm working hard to overcome my fears in general. This has clearly played a role in my marriage failures. Outside of this 10 yr relationship (8.5 yr marriage), I've only had one LTR in my 40 years and that only lasted 1 year. Maybe a lot of my issues stem from being alone most of my life. Not knowing how to interact in a love relationship.

I'd specifically like to hear what the women of TAM think of my situation, some of my wife's complaints, and if they have any suggestions for being "available" and more honest about my feelings.
Some of my wife's complaints:


I show no empathy. 
Most of my emotions are self-centered. For example, I cry about my issues, not someone else’s.
I go right to shame when criticized, or I sense I'm being criticized.
My anger comes out in passive aggressive ways.
I'm emotionally unavailable.
Even when I am affectionate or passionate, it comes across fake or for my pleasure, not hers.
I don't challenge her.
Does the emotional availability thing get overblown? Is it a male/female thing? Is it something that naturally happens when life gets in the way of two married people? I know she has been frustrated with me for years, but we started having kids right away and our life has always been hectic. Not to mention, she has been a SAHM for 8 years now.

We have started looking at the Marriage Builders Emotional Questionnaires together. Her highest emotional needs are Intimate Conversation, Sexual Fulfillment, and Honesty and Openness. The biggest unknowns for me are Intimate Conversation and Honesty and Openness. I feel I can tackle her Sexual Fulfillment needs by getting in shape and being less passive. But I'm not sure where to even begin with the other two.

I have some basic ideas. Overcoming my anxiety issues is the first step, but I feel I can do some of this now:


Be more honest about my feelings. Don't fear her reaction.
Be more forthcoming with my feelings. Share the events of my days. Try to incorporate emotions.
Listen better. Validate. Mirror. Empathize.
When I feel she is unjustly criticizing me, stop her. Don't go to shame. Is this challenging her?
All of that is easier said than done. Especially the last one, but hopefully my NMMNG work with help me get over always going to shame.

BTW, I'm not taking all the blame here. My wife has consistently gone outside of the marriage for emotional support. Sure, I drove her there, but she is a big girl and made up her own mind to do so. In addition, she was not equipped to deal with a passive aggressive man (who is?!?) and just reinforced my withdrawn behaviors. 

Thing is, I don't want to end up with a woman who is like me. I like that my STBXW is an emotional being. I feel like if I married the female version of me, my life would be extremely boring and unfulfilling. *How do I keep one of these emotional creatures happy when I myself am not naturally emotionally available???*


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Are you currently in counseling? I'm not a professional but some of those traits could be a learning disability that was never diagnosed OR it could be a psychological disorder. Either way it seems you could get help from a counselor.

Maybe in order to gain empathy you should start actively TRYING to feel it. For instance, when you read news articles or watch TV such as the Oklahoma tornado victims, can you close your eyes and pretend this just happened to YOU? Even the animals on an ASPCA commercial - can you imagine how YOU would feel if you were abused, abandoned, unloved and then empathize? 

How about you start by trying to empathize with another person every day. If it doesn't come across your path naturally, seek it out on TV or online. Read some of the heart wrenching threads here - if you felt pain over your marriage falling apart, maybe reading about someone else's pain would help you identify with it since you have personally experienced that.

Not go go all Freud, but I wonder if you had attachment issues as a child and this is an emotional defense mechanism. It's great you can appreciate the emotion in others.


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## sarcasmo (Feb 1, 2013)

EnjoliWoman said:


> Are you currently in counseling? I'm not a professional but some of those traits could be a learning disability that was never diagnosed OR it could be a psychological disorder. Either way it seems you could get help from a counselor.


I am in IC, but to date it has been focused on the current crisis, not my past. I'm trying to steer the therapy to me, but I perseverate so much about the marriage that I talk for an hour about it. I am being treated for generalized anxiety disorder and depression. My meds have been a lifesaver as the SSRI's that were always thrown at me for depression never did anything for me.



EnjoliWoman said:


> Maybe in order to gain empathy you should start actively TRYING to feel it. For instance, when you read news articles or watch TV such as the Oklahoma tornado victims, can you close your eyes and pretend this just happened to YOU? Even the animals on an ASPCA commercial - can you imagine how YOU would feel if you were abused, abandoned, unloved and then empathize?
> 
> How about you start by trying to empathize with another person every day. If it doesn't come across your path naturally, seek it out on TV or online. Read some of the heart wrenching threads here - if you felt pain over your marriage falling apart, maybe reading about someone else's pain would help you identify with it since you have personally experienced that.


You know, I'm not narcissistic (not saying you implied that!). A little self-centered, sure. Probably from living most of my adult life alone. I look at Sandy Hook, Boston, and Oklahoma and my eyes well up. I do feel empathy for these tragic events. Why do I seem so emotional when one-on-one with people? Maybe my wife is the problem? Maybe she just doesn't see it? I'll have to ask others about this part of me.

I have been watching movies and trying to pay attention to people's interactions. I'm hoping I find some appropriate skills there. It is tough reading the posts here. Again, I might just be going to my pain and not really feeling the other person's pain.



EnjoliWoman said:


> Not go go all Freud, but I wonder if you had attachment issues as a child and this is an emotional defense mechanism. It's great you can appreciate the emotion in others.


Yes. I believe this is true and why I'm having trouble ending this relationship. I do love that my wife is emotional...sometimes. I just don't feel the need to express as often.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

Sometimes you gotta get help and heal things from your past before you can move forward. So many people think that what is in the past should be left there, and while I agree with that to a point, I also believe that if there are any unresolved issues from the past, such as childhood issues etc, if they are not dealt with properly then they will spill over into a persons currant situation. Its probably good to start talking with your counselor about past issues and work your way up to where you are now.


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## sarcasmo (Feb 1, 2013)

CallaLily said:


> Sometimes you gotta get help and heal things from your past before you can move forward. So many people think that what is in the past should be left there, and while I agree with that to a point, I also believe that if there are any unresolved issues from the past, such as childhood issues etc, if they are not dealt with properly then they will spill over into a persons currant situation. Its probably good to start talking with your counselor about past issues and work your way up to where you are now.


Agreed. Not sure if I mentioned it here, but I have been so focused on my STBXW and marriage in my IC, they I haven't had much time to work on me. I'm actively shifting that focus now.

I guess I was just looking for the female perspective on emotional availability. Then again, I'm sure it's different for eveyone. It just seems like such an abstract idea at times. I'm not someone that likes to leave a problem unsolved.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

My husband was emotionally unavailable but I didn't use it as an excuse to cheat. I almost left him over it but I didnt we sought MC instead.

Please don't let her pin this on you. This "you made me do it" annoys me to no end.

My husband sought therapy to learn to open up.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

It is certainly an "it takes two" arena. 

Does she ask you about your day? How you feel about specific things that have happened? i.e. is she expecting you to voluntarily share without prompting? Most men don't share without being asked. So are you really unavailable and avoid answering? 

If you avoid answering, why? Has she responded in a non-supportive way? Does it make you feel overly vulnerable?

Sometimes behavior begets certain behaviors. I've certainly learned that in my past marriage, how I fed into it. I'm just not certain you need to take on the full 'burden' here.

So you are learning to listen and validate without offering solutions (men usually want to solve; women want to vent). That's good - but your comment on being criticized... does she? Or do you perceive any commentary/feedback from her as criticism? Is she highly negative? The only way I 'criticize' is by offering an alternate solution. As I said it could be your perception vs. what she intends for you to hear.

I sense a lot of hurt-based fear, anxiety and anger of the bottled up variety leading to PA behavior. But I also wonder if she has created an atmosphere that is not conducive to your opening up to vulnerability.


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## sarcasmo (Feb 1, 2013)

EnjoliWoman said:


> Does she ask you about your day? How you feel about specific things that have happened? i.e. is she expecting you to voluntarily share without prompting? Most men don't share without being asked. So are you really unavailable and avoid answering?
> 
> If you avoid answering, why? Has she responded in a non-supportive way? Does it make you feel overly vulnerable?


She does, but a lot of times, I don't have anything feelings based to say. I work in IT. When she asks me how my day was, I generally respond with "good". Lately I try to share a story or two, whether boring or not because I realize that creates intimacy. Just trying to open up more. 

I have been much better at it since she started the EA. I fear that she is just too withdrawn to see the "new" me. I do try to express my feelings about work/like more often. There are a lot of stressors there.



EnjoliWoman said:


> So you are learning to listen and validate without offering solutions (men usually want to solve; women want to vent). That's good - but your comment on being criticized... does she? Or do you perceive any commentary/feedback from her as criticism? Is she highly negative? The only way I 'criticize' is by offering an alternate solution. As I said it could be your perception vs. what she intends for you to hear.
> 
> I sense a lot of hurt-based fear, anxiety and anger of the bottled up variety leading to PA behavior. But I also wonder if she has created an atmosphere that is not conducive to your opening up to vulnerability.


Generally, the criticism was because of something I didn't do. Not because I was not validating her. Of course, she would always tell me later (much later), "It's not about the lawn, it's about something else." Why couldn't she just open up about what the real problem was? Not mask it with something else? Maybe she doesn't know and needs me to read her mind. Recognize that she is upset. Stop her from criticizing and get to the root of her anger?

Well, once she detached from the marriage, the criticism went down considerably. I think this is why she feels she needs to leave me. She doesn't want to go back to the "old" her that was always angry and critical. She fears that if she lets me back in, this person will reappear.

So, while I have been a much better communicator, she is now removed and dare I say, passive. That is the sad irony of my situation. Now that I'm more present, she is gone and is too afraid to take a leap of faith and let me back in.

I agree that we created this environment where she was the aggressor and I withdrew out of fear. I believe our anxiety presented itself differently. She would control and I would withdraw. This was our toxic dance. Neither of us was equipped to handle the other. I guess this is where I always though MC could help us. Unfortunately, her therapists are just telling her to cut me loose if she isn't fulfilled. 

I think she's kidding herself. I don't feel a magical new relationship is going to make her less anxious. Just new stressors. Different ones. I feel like she's throwing away this marriage for a shot at something better when we have an equal shot at something better.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Sounds like you are on the right track. Sometimes faith is hard to regain when it's lost. But you should NOT have to read her mind. If it's not about the grass or some chore and she snaps and takes her frustration out on you, SHE needs to be aware that you can't know that.

It's been scientifically proven women are much better at reading facial expressions from infancy up to adults. We're hardwired that way. So you can't be expected to pick up on her subtle 'hints'. 

Women tend roll their eyes or pinch their lips to show dissatisfaction expecting the man to realize she wants him to do something. When if everyone just opened up their mouth and SPOKE, half of that stuff would be resolved.

No way to know how this will work out. But perhaps tell her that last post would be good. It's open, it's emotionally available, it's a fair observation... she should hear that from you.


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## sarcasmo (Feb 1, 2013)

EnjoliWoman said:


> Sounds like you are on the right track. Sometimes faith is hard to regain when it's lost. But you should NOT have to read her mind. If it's not about the grass or some chore and she snaps and takes her frustration out on you, SHE needs to be aware that you can't know that.
> 
> It's been scientifically proven women are much better at reading facial expressions from infancy up to adults. We're hardwired that way. So you can't be expected to pick up on her subtle 'hints'.
> 
> ...


Thanks again. I appreciate your feedback. Sounds like I'm making progress. I still don't know how to "show" empathy. She feels I'm faking it, even when I really do feel empathy.

I do agree that I shouldn't have to read minds. Neither should she, which is why I'm working hard on communicating better. Unfortunately, in her POSOM she has found someone that does these things more naturally. I'm being held up to this standard.

Are you suggesting I say all of this to her or just the last line? Your post want clear.


> I think she's kidding herself. I don't feel a magical new relationship is going to make her less anxious. Just new stressors. Different ones. I feel like she's throwing away this marriage for a shot at something better when we have an equal shot at something better.


I was actually thinking of sharing the entire thread, assuming I didn't say anything too hurtful.


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## sarcasmo (Feb 1, 2013)

Mavash. said:


> My husband was emotionally unavailable but I didn't use it as an excuse to cheat. I almost left him over it but I didnt we sought MC instead.
> 
> Please don't let her pin this on you. This "you made me do it" annoys me to no end.
> 
> My husband sought therapy to learn to open up.


Mavash. I just read your posts http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/48167-how-get-affection-intimacy-words-something.html and http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...and-checked-back-after-21-years-not-easy.html. While they give me hope, I'm not sure my wife will be on board with helping me with the heavy lifting required to fix us. I'm hoping if I share your story, that maybe she will think twice about divorce. If so, I may be able to move to a place where I could forgive her for her EAs.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

You know I didn't even realize he was emotionally unavailable until a few years ago. In hindsight he checked out due to work stress, I responded by getting VERY angry, and when that didn't work I fell into a depression. It would be a dance we would do for a decade until I stopped my part in it (anger). Almost left him again 3 years ago but sigh I found tam and kept trying. He finally opened up to me 8 months ago and we've been making consistent progress since then.

This has been one long hard road but its paying off now. 

Btw I don't think my husband could have ever opened up to me without me doing the heavy lifting. I needed to make him feel safe first. 

Oh and we're having the honeymoon now that we never had. It's awesome!!! Better late than never huh? We celebrate 22 years of marriage this August.


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## JustHer (Mar 12, 2013)

OP, I extracted some of the things you listed about yourself below:

_I show no empathy. 
Most of my emotions are self-centered. For example, I cry about my issues, not someone else’s. 
I go right to shame when criticized, or I sense I'm being criticized. 
My anger comes out in passive aggressive ways. 
I'm emotionally unavailable. 
Even when I am affectionate or passionate, it comes across fake or for my pleasure, not hers. 
I don't challenge her. 

I know I'm passive and I fear my wife
Maybe a lot of my issues stem from being alone most of my life. Not knowing how to interact in a love relationship.

The biggest unknowns for me are Intimate Conversation and Honesty and Openness. I feel I can tackle her Sexual Fulfillment needs by getting in shape and being less passive. But I'm not sure where to even begin with the other two.
I still don't know how to "show" empathy. She feels I'm faking it, even when I really do feel empathy.

Does the emotional availability thing get overblown? Is it a male/female thing?_

The answer is no, the emotional thing is really important to woman. We are very complex creatures and unfortunately we get our emotional fulfillment on several different levels. And to make it more confusing, we are all different, even if it is slightly. But, we are not imposible to please.

Back to the list above. There are several things that stood out to me, along with your history of being alone until you found your wife and the fact that you are in IT (not that that means everyone who is in IT is going to have emotional issues). OP, bring this list to your next counseling apt. There may be more to this. It may be a learning disability as mentioned above, or something in your childhood, but it could be something like high functioning Aspergers.


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## Whiner (May 22, 2013)

I'm new to this and haven't read your other threads, but had to say your issues sound so much like my husbands that I had to comment. My problem in helping to repair the relationship is trust. As soon as we reach a comfort level, he falls into old habits. So trying just results in a new hurt as he becomes passive again. When he's at his worst--emotionally absent--it's like sitting at the lunch table with a group of people who used to be your friends but now don't speak to you. I don't trust him to really change. Maybe your wife feels the same way.
I'm very impressed by how hard you are working and agree that focusing on yourself is a good move--just being the hubby she wants will just be a fake. Better to figure out your own path and see if it still fits with hers.


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## sarcasmo (Feb 1, 2013)

lenaufac said:


> Maybe in order to gain empathy you should start actively TRYING to feel it.


I'm trying. I really am. I stop and listen and try to put myself in the other person's shoes.

She keeps telling me it's fake. Like I'm reading it out of a textbook. Not actually feeling it. 

I need to ask others what they think to see if they think I'm showing empathy. I haven't actually asked anyone because it's such an awkward thing to ask. She may be right, but she's so clouded and removed from me, I can't trust her judgment. She’s looking for validation that I'm not the one for her. I don't trust that she's looking at me w/out an agenda.

Then again, I'm stubborn and self centered. She is probably dead on and I'm just destined to have the emotional height of a rhinoceros the rest of my life.


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## sarcasmo (Feb 1, 2013)

JustHer said:


> OP, I extracted some of the things you listed about yourself below:
> 
> _I show no empathy.
> Most of my emotions are self-centered. For example, I cry about my issues, not someone else’s.
> ...


Pretty sure I don't have Aspergers, but you never know. 

The psychologist that diagnosed me with the anxiety disorder also recommended we treat me for ADD. When the stimulants did nothing, he told me to look into executive function issues. I have a hard time grasping what those are and my current therapist doesn't seem to put too much weight into that. Then again, we have been so focued on the marriage I haven't really opened up about all my issues yet. Just general ideas of behavious I would like to change.

To be fair, I do have memory issues, I tend to reread pages because my mind wanders, and my workspace is always a mess. These could be anxiety related (too much internal thinking), but I could see me having issues with the organizational aspects of the executive functions, but how is empathy related? Is it processed in the same manner? Could I have missed out of some critical development as a child where you learn empathy? 

Again, I'm still not convined I have a big empathy problem. This view is mostly coming from my wife. It resonates with me so I run with it, but it may not be as bad as she says. I'm thinking being alone for so long has made me a bit self centered and I have a hard time thinking of the other person when I interact. I have been working on paying more attention to the other person and not me when communicating.


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## sarcasmo (Feb 1, 2013)

Mavash. said:


> You know I didn't even realize he was emotionally unavailable until a few years ago. In hindsight he checked out due to work stress, I responded by getting VERY angry, and when that didn't work I fell into a depression. It would be a dance we would do for a decade until I stopped my part in it (anger). Almost left him again 3 years ago but sigh I found tam and kept trying. He finally opened up to me 8 months ago and we've been making consistent progress since then.
> 
> This has been one long hard road but its paying off now.
> 
> ...


This is where I see the parallels. I tend to shut down when she gets angry and critical. When we were dating and through the first few years of marriage, she always joked that I must have a book because I always say the right things. Maybe I was more emotionally available then and over the years I shut down. Work is stressful and coming home to a "crazy" house instead of a calm place I can decompress could have contributed. I could have shut down more and more over time. I don't know.

On the flip side, I could have always been unavailable and we were simply still in the romantic love phase of her marriage. Somewhere along the line she came out of that and realized she needed more from me. Again, I really don't know.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

My husbands dad was controlling. I suspect his mom wasn't much better. It's easy to trigger my husband. The minute he thinks I'm upset in some way he shuts down even now. I have to calm him before he can continue the conversation. He can't control this on his own at the moment. I have to help.


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## sarcasmo (Feb 1, 2013)

Mavash. said:


> My husbands dad was controlling. I suspect his mom wasn't much better. It's easy to trigger my husband. The minute he thinks I'm upset in some way he shuts down even now. I have to calm him before he can continue the conversation. He can't control this on his own at the moment. I have to help.


My Parents were divorced. My Dad is emotionally unavailable and judging. You never know where you stand with him. Seeming never pleased with me. My mother was controlling. Always reminding me how I wasn't living up to expectations. How I was better than my grades. I spent most of my childhood grounded due to school-work issues. Rarely behavioral issues. She didn't know how to motivate me. Shut me down even more.

I always feel like I'm a kid again "talking" to my wife. Tearing up just thinking of this. Why wont she work with me to fix this?!? Am I the selfish one for wanting this?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I find that a lot of self proclaimed nice guys ate anything but, and you should ask yourself if you fall into this category. This type of guy fears confrontation and puts everyone else before him, but secretly resents it and gets revenge in passive ways. Example: your wife expects you to come straight home after work every day to help with the kids when you want to have a drink with your buddies. Instead of just telling her you want to have a drink and negotiating a compromise that you and your wife can live with you instead agree with her and then conveniently "forget" the time and show up late anyway. This is a cowardly way to do things.
As for the empathy, the first thing you should do in any situation is look at things from the other persons perspective and think about how they must be feeling, and how you would feel if that was you. Continue with IC to address why you are primarily concerned with yourself, since your inability to have a relationship suggests this is the case. Also remember that some people require more emotional connection than others and no matter what you do you won't be able to satisfy some of them. Everyone can have basic incompatibilities.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

sarcasmo said:


> My Parents were divorced. My Dad is emotionally unavailable and judging. You never know where you stand with him. Seeming never pleased with me. My mother was controlling. Always reminding me how I wasn't living up to expectations. How I was better than my grades. I spent most of my childhood grounded due to school-work issues. Rarely behavioral issues. She didn't know how to motivate me. Shut me down even more.
> 
> I always feel like I'm a kid again "talking" to my wife. Tearing up just thinking of this. Why wont she work with me to fix this?!? Am I the selfish one for wanting this?


Omg this is my husband sans the divorce. He was always in trouble, could do nothing right, struggled with grades, etc. He morphs into that boy with me when I'm upset.

Here's the thing it's not up to your wife to fix this for you.  YOU need to do it for you. Yes it would be nice if she would but truthfully it's not her problem it's yours. 

I also bet your wife has a truckload of baggage of her own that makes her unable to help you. I can do it for my husband only because I've had 4 years of IC.

Make sense?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

sarcasmo said:


> My Parents were divorced. My Dad is emotionally unavailable and judging. You never know where you stand with him. Seeming never pleased with me. My mother was controlling. Always reminding me how I wasn't living up to expectations. How I was better than my grades. I spent most of my childhood grounded due to school-work issues. Rarely behavioral issues. She didn't know how to motivate me. Shut me down even more.
> 
> I always feel like I'm a kid again "talking" to my wife. Tearing up just thinking of this. Why wont she work with me to fix this?!? Am I the selfish one for wanting this?


It's not on your wife to deal with your issues, it's on you. If this is more than she can handle then it is what it is. It would be nice if she could handle it but it's not required that she go down emotionally with you. Why is it that you're just now interested in fixing it? Is it because she asked for a divorce? A lot of women would view that a selfish, and will think you didn't care enough until your rear was on the line. A lot of people are guilty of that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sarcasmo (Feb 1, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> I find that a lot of self proclaimed nice guys ate anything but, and you should ask yourself if you fall into this category. This type of guy fears confrontation and puts everyone else before him, but secretly resents it and gets revenge in passive ways. Example: your wife expects you to come straight home after work every day to help with the kids when you want to have a drink with your buddies. Instead of just telling her you want to have a drink and negotiating a compromise that you and your wife can live with you instead agree with her and then conveniently "forget" the time and show up late anyway. This is a cowardly way to do things.
> As for the empathy, the first thing you should do in any situation is look at things from the other persons perspective and think about how they must be feeling, and how you would feel if that was you. Continue with IC to address why you are primarily concerned with yourself, since your inability to have a relationship suggests this is the case. Also remember that some people require more emotional connection than others and no matter what you do you won't be able to satisfy some of them. Everyone can have basic incompatibilities.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Completely agree with both points. My Nice Guy tendancies are toxic. It's awful. I need to overcome my fears and grow a backbone. Not in an a-hole way, but I need to be open and honest and foster good communication. 

To the second point, I have the insight now and I'm trying to put in into practice. Unfortunately it just comes off too fake right now. She doesn't believe it will ever be genuine.


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## sarcasmo (Feb 1, 2013)

Mavash. said:


> Omg this is my husband sans the divorce. He was always in trouble, could do nothing right, struggled with grades, etc. He morphs into that boy with me when I'm upset.
> 
> *Here's the thing it's not up to your wife to fix this for you. YOU need to do it for you. Yes it would be nice if she would but truthfully it's not her problem it's yours. *
> 
> ...


Agreed, but I want her to create an environment where I can grow. If she keeps putting me down, I will keep crawling back into my hole. This would make my growth much quicker and more meaningful because she helped enable it. Maybe its selfish of me to expect this.


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## sarcasmo (Feb 1, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> It's not on your wife to deal with your issues, it's on you. If this is more than she can handle then it is what it is. It would be nice if she could handle it but it's not required that she go down emotionally with you. Why is it that you're just now interested in fixing it? Is it because she asked for a divorce? A lot of women would view that a selfish, and will think you didn't care enough until your rear was on the line. A lot of people are guilty of that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sad but true. I guess I have no option but to let her go.

The affair woke me up. I was complacent and thought that something like that could never happen to us. Even though all the red flags were there. I took our marriage for granted and we are paying the price for it.


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## sarcasmo (Feb 1, 2013)

Thanks for your insight ladies. It's become clear I have to let her go and focus on healing myself. I didn't start this thread trying to win her back and change to suit her needs. I feel like I kind of went that direction, but I see now that I need to let her live her life and heal from this marriage. Just as I need to deal with my baggage and become a person who is capable to receiving someone else into their life in a healthy way.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Also, dealing with your issues with no expectations from her make your appear less needy and more in control of yourself, and that is an attractive quality. Whether you ultimately reconcile with your wife or move on it will serve you well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

sarcasmo said:


> Agreed, but I want her to create an environment where I can grow. If she keeps putting me down, I will keep crawling back into my hole. This would make my growth much quicker and more meaningful because she helped enable it. Maybe its selfish of me to expect this.


You need to learn to tell her to shut the fvck up. Nicely.

Boundaries dude boundaries.

Don't expect a good environment DEMAND it.

She will completely respect you for it.

Trust me.


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## sarcasmo (Feb 1, 2013)

Mavash. said:


> You need to learn to tell her to shut the fvck up. Nicely.
> 
> Boundaries dude boundaries.
> 
> ...


Typical Nice Guy fears. Destroyed my marriage. Definitely something on my list of things to overcome in my next relationship(s).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

sarcasmo said:


> Agreed, but I want her to create an environment where I can grow. If she keeps putting me down, I will keep crawling back into my hole. This would make my growth much quicker and more meaningful because she helped enable it. Maybe its selfish of me to expect this.


Not selfish, but fear of not being able to do it on your own.
Actually, you are better off with her pushing you. It's working. She is forcing you to look deeper, work harder. 


It's hard and feels lonely. A safe person will encourage you, and tell you when you get off track.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

deejov said:


> It's hard and feels lonely. A safe person will encourage you, and tell you when you get off track.


I could not have done it without mine.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

sarcasmo said:


> Typical Nice Guy fears. Destroyed my marriage. Definitely something on my list of things to overcome in my next relationship(s).
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Do it now. This never gets easier. Overcome it now or you will pick another highly critical woman like your sucky parents.


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## sarcasmo (Feb 1, 2013)

Mavash. said:


> Do it now. This never gets easier. Overcome it now or you will pick another highly critical woman like your sucky parents.


Already read the book. Just starting the exercises, but I've been perseverating too much on this failed marriage. I need to get back into it...now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## yellowstar (Jun 18, 2012)

You remind me SO much of my husband, it's scary, I almost wondered if it was him writing...I just read this thread over to him. I think what you're doing is applaudable, keep working on you. Luckily for us we are both working on our own issues (he like your issues and me to not be so controlling, learning how to let him be, not flip out at him etc). Good luck!


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