# Chances of Reconciliation



## Jayb

Last summer, my wife of 11 years gave me the "I don't know if I love you or could ever love you" speech, completely out of the blue. In addition, I obtained evidence of inappropriate texting/emailing between her and another man. She planned on meeting him, lied to me, yet came back, and upon confrontation, swore nothing happened, nor meeting him.

She insisted upon separation. I moved out, signed a 12 month lease down the road in order to maintain regular contact with our children. She advised me not to hope that at the end of my lease I would move back in.

I stewed in emotions for 3 months. We were civil with the children, but my underlying emotions (anger/hurt/fear/bitterness) got the best of me. I filed for divorce. She was served, without any warning.

Then began the adversarial relationship. 2 months of this persisted and it ripped me.

Then, out of the blue, I had serious second thoughts about proceeding with divorce. I wanted to somehow try to reconcile. Yet, my wife had admitted to closing the door on our relationship. 

We are now in a holding period for a few months. In addition, we are attending weekly counseling. I am hopeful and willing. She is disengaged and doubtful.

I have witnessed baby steps toward saving us. But, my emotions sometimes get the best of me. I made mistakes during this time that I truly regret and want to correct them.

How common is it for the divorce filer to actively pursue reconciliation? How can I convince my spouse?

Any advice would be welcome.


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## This is me

I think the fact that she is doing counselling is a positive sign. 

Have you seen the video on youtube call Walk Away Wife Syndrome? Look it up, sounds just like mine. The out of the blue, no longer in love with you and other man situation. Know it all too well.

Read Divorce Busters, which helped me with the different phases. If there is hope time/patience is the key. You will go up and down, make mistakes, but if you want to save it, plan on it taking much longer than you think.

I wish you well!


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## Jayb

Thanks. I got chills reading about Walk-Away Wives. It's pretty much spot on.

Things at the end were like roommates with children. She suggested separation. However, based on my assupmtions, I raised the stakes and filed for divorce. And that even further cemented her mind.

We are in counseling. However, her excuse has been more to see me get help and make it through this divorce, rather than us both attempting to save us. Afterall, we are good "friends" and she wants the best for me.

My world has been rocked. To this day, I wish I had not filed for divorce and escalated this entire situation.

Now, it may be too late.


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## This is me

I know what you mean about the WAW. It was like she was writing about us. I was clueless and shocked.

They seem to hide their resentment very well and detach from the marriage by attaching to another. I think it is a lack of maturity that allows them to throw it all away like that, without fighting for the marriage, but that is my humble opinion.

I believe there is always hope. I was about an hour away from filing, when a friend talked me out of it. She just moved back home this weekend after 4 months seperation, but we are still not whole.

It is a sexless situtation with hugs and kisses, and the request to give her time, which I am doing. There will be a limit though. I want a real marriage not a loving room mate.

Let me ask you this. Have you laid it all out and said you errored by filing and would like to save the marriage if you can, but you need her to also agree to work towards reconciliation? 

It might be worth a call to Divorce Busters to get some ideas on how to get her to give it one more try. We are all human and you have admitted your error. Again a mature person in a relationship would acknowledge your mistake and see the virtue in working toward love rather than away.

Again, IMHO.

I wish you well!


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## Jayb

Hey, thanks for the replies. You have offered me other views I never considered.

Btw, I hope and pray your marriage is restored. Believe me, I know your emotions.

To answer your question. YES, I told her. I was caught up in the moment when I filed and continued in divorce. 

Then, 2 months later, when I appoached her about my reservation, she was so concerned with the total amount of money we had both spent, along with time, etc., to come this far.

We are at the stage of forming an agreement (in mediation) to sign and end the marriage. When I questioned her what would happen after a final divorce, she replied, living like normal, how we are. Again, neither of us had or is dating anyone.

My conscience forbids me to divorce without giving it my all to restore it. However, WAW syndrome, coupled with how I responded during our separation, may have pushed her beyond reconciliation. My response has been to admit a mistake in filing for divorce and withdrawing the petition. If my wife wants/ed to divorce me, then she should have/had to initiate that action. But, because of all the $$ spent on both sides, it muddies the issue.

I am beating myself up over 2 crucial mistakes I made. #1 - moving out of the house when separation was decided. #2 - filing for divorce out of anger/hurt/rage/fear. And admitting these mistakes, and a willingness to rectify, seem only to convince her that she indeed made the correct decision in closing down the marriage in her mind prior to our separation.

That is why I feel as though she is "going through the motions" in counseling. To later say that she did counseling, but was unsuccessful.

I'm sure you know, my emotions rage every couple of minutes.

I am reading Divorce Remedy. In addition, our counselour prioritizes marriage, solution-based strategies, and knows Michele Weiner-Davis.

I pray that the 2% chance that my wife is open to materializes into a restored marriage. However, I am learning all of this for me, ultimately. Like Michele states in the WAW syndrome, my next wife will reap these benefits my current wife rejects. I say that partly in jest, but you know what I mean.


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## This is me

Thank you for your thoughts and prayers on my marriage. Mine are with you!

As happy as I am that she moved back and we are in MC, I still have to keep in the back of my mind that if we do not become a true married couple and not just loving room mates, I will need to move on, as will she.

The roller coaster is hell and I know your pain. Find ways to pamper yourself. Treat yourself to things to help yourself find comfort. I have added some routines that I never did before as a reward for dealing with the pain. Little treats just for me. Friends and others who you can spend time with. Whatever.

One thing you might want to share with her is that all the money in the world should not matter if love is lost. One study I came across recently showed that of about 500 couples unhappy in their marriages who were interviewed 5 years later, of those who divorced, only 19% were happier, where as of those who stayed married 80% were.

I like the idea of being in the 80%.

I wish you well!


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## warlock07

Wow!! She cheated but you are the one begging for R. No chance here if you you beg and plead her back into a relation. Even if she comes back, the power balance makes it easy for her to embark on another affair. And the thing she said about having no Physical affair, it is most likely a lie. Read the stories around here. You did no mistake here. And you are doing this entirely wrong. I would suggest that you post this in Coping with infidelity or General Relationships discussion Forum. You will have more members offer opinion about the whole thing


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## This is me

warlock07 said:


> And you are doing this entirely wrong. I would suggest that you post this in Coping with infidelity or General Relationships discussion Forum. You will have more members offer opinion about the whole thing



You are doing what you should be doing. Don't listen to those who are not in your shoes. I can not tell you how many times in the past year I have been advised her on TAM to divorce my wife. She moved back home this past week.

Everyone here brings their own issues into the advice they give and none are experts on anything but their own experiences. I have noticed some here that are divorced who always recommend divorce as the only option. Everytime single time.

People are easily influenced in their weakest moments, which ticks me off when I see these daily visitors to this website carrying the banner for divorce.

If there is an ounce of hope and you really want to save your marriage, don't let the neigh sayers steer you into their worlds.


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## Jayb

This is me said:


> You are doing what you should be doing. Don't listen to those who are not in your shoes. I can not tell you how many times in the past year I have been advised her on TAM to divorce my wife. She moved back home this past week.
> 
> Everyone here brings their own issues into the advice they give and none are experts on anything but their own experiences. I have noticed some here that are divorced who always recommend divorce as the only option. Everytime single time.
> 
> People are easily influenced in their weakest moments, which ticks me off when I see these daily visitors to this website carrying the banner for divorce.
> 
> If there is an ounce of hope and you really want to save your marriage, don't let the neigh sayers steer you into their worlds.



Thanks. I took it into account. Preventing divorce AT this time is my priority at this point, no matter what was done by whom. That can be dealt with later on.

I appreciate it.


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## Mamatomany

What do you think made you change your mind? 
Was it just time passing allowing anger/hurt to subside?


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## Jayb

Mamatomany said:


> What do you think made you change your mind?
> Was it just time passing allowing anger/hurt to subside?


Allowing hurt to subside. Realizing I made decisions out of emotions, after denying it for months. Focusing on myself. Praying. Stopped listening to my friends and their advice to just "move on."

Also, realizing I may have done the dirty deed (filing) for her.


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## This is me

Jayb said:


> Stopped listening to my friends and their advice to just "move on."


Those cheerleaders who only want us to be happy (from hearing one side) can sometimes encourage in a powerful way the end of salvageable relationships.


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## sadwithouthim

Jayb said:


> Allowing hurt to subside. Realizing I made decisions out of emotions, after denying it for months. Focusing on myself. Praying. Stopped listening to my friends and their advice to just "move on."
> 
> Also, realizing I may have done the dirty deed (filing) for her.


Listening to negative advice I think hurt me too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mamatomany

I do have friends and family who just want me to be happy and they tell me to start moving on... but reassure me they will support me in whatever my decision is. They know I love him and have put up w/ his crazy MLC and we are all suffering for it. 

Thanks, I am trying to have patience... I just need to know that men can change their minds about leaving a family. I also suspect he is looking at moving out of the state... I have been asking for that for yrs! But this would be w/o the family.


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## stillinlovewithhim

Jayb said:


> Allowing hurt to subside. Realizing I made decisions out of emotions, after denying it for months. Focusing on myself. Praying. Stopped listening to my friends and their advice to just "move on."
> 
> Also, realizing I may have done the dirty deed (filing) for her.


This!!! Shame my ex husband doesn't have a friend like you. He can't see the link between remaining angry and listening to his "move on" friends, as keeping him trapped, in being the one with a broken family.


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## Jayb

stillinlovewithhim said:


> This!!! Shame my ex husband doesn't have a friend like you. He can't see the link between remaining angry and listening to his "move on" friends, as keeping him trapped, in being the one with a broken family.



Unfortunately, it's also probably true that my wife hears from her friends/family to leave me.

I learned about this from Divorce Remedy. It's natural for those close to us to want to eliminate our pain and offer advice for us to get happy again. It's also natural for them to want to avoid feeling bad themselves, so the immediate reaction, is to say, "move on." "You will be happier elsewhere." Etc., etc.


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## Wildflower3

jayb, I have hope for you! I'm so glad that she is up for MC. I almost made an appt for mediation for next month, but I think that was more reactive than thoughtful. I'm trying to do the whole rip it off like a band aid thing, but I figured in the past couple of days that if he wants this, then he can be the one to make the arrangements for it. Someone on here told me it takes two to get married, it'll take two to get a divorce and don't hand it to him on a silver platter. 

For you guys, nothing is final, legally, right?


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## Jayb

Wildflower3 said:


> jayb, I have hope for you! I'm so glad that she is up for MC. I almost made an appt for mediation for next month, but I think that was more reactive than thoughtful. I'm trying to do the whole rip it off like a band aid thing, but I figured in the past couple of days that if he wants this, then he can be the one to make the arrangements for it. Someone on here told me it takes two to get married, it'll take two to get a divorce and don't hand it to him on a silver platter.
> 
> For you guys, nothing is final, legally, right?


Correct. We are in a holding period for 90 days where we attend counseling, etc., to see if our M can be saved. However, the original filing date and paperwork is kept intact during this time. It'll just be a decision to withdraw the D or proceed to mediation.

Thanks! We had a good time this past weekend both with the children and together alone.

If you had told me 4 months ago, that I would be watching a movie with my wife at night after the children were asleep, I would have told you you're crazy. But it happened.

Right now, I am focusing on me. And if I am given another chance, it WILL be a different M.


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## Jayb

Ugh.

Went to MC with wife today who told me directly several times that she has no hope for us and wants to end the marriage.

It stings, although, less than it did 9 months ago.

I am devastated/mad/sad/distraught.

She committed to 3 months of therapy to see if there would be any possibility. However, she ended that today.

Our next therapy sessions will be based around how to end this and proceed to the next stage in our lives.

Still reading divorce remedy. I understand that although she stated those things, there still may be doubts.

However, I have to wrap my head around her not wanting to be married to me anymore.

And, there is no other man. 


Ugh.


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## Wildflower3

I'm so sorry to hear that. I'm in the same boat, so I know how it feels. Only my STBXH won't directly say that he wants to end our marriage. He only says things like "I don't see us having a loving relationship". Dare he just directly say "I want a divorce". 

It hurts really badly, I know. Knowing what that's like, I hurt for you.


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## Mamatomany

Mine is like that too he had a hard time even saying Divorce to me 2 wks ago. Most of the time I think HE WILL HAVE TO FILE!
I think of how many promises he is breaking... 
I miss him so much but am needing to have a break from him (missing him)...


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## sadwithouthim

Jayb said:


> Ugh.
> 
> Went to MC with wife today who told me directly several times that she has no hope for us and wants to end the marriage.
> 
> It stings, although, less than it did 9 months ago.
> 
> I am devastated/mad/sad/distraught.
> 
> She committed to 3 months of therapy to see if there would be any possibility. However, she ended that today.
> 
> Our next therapy sessions will be based around how to end this and proceed to the next stage in our lives.
> 
> Still reading divorce remedy. I understand that although she stated those things, there still may be doubts.
> 
> However, I have to wrap my head around her not wanting to be married to me anymore.
> 
> And, there is no other man.
> 
> 
> Ugh.


I'm Sorry she didn't keep her commitment to the therapy. My husband would never do therapy. Keep going to therapy for yourself. I'm not sure what causes a person to just give up. I'm sorry this happened to you. There's still always hope she will change her mind.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jayb

Wildflower3 said:


> I'm so sorry to hear that. I'm in the same boat, so I know how it feels. Only my STBXH won't directly say that he wants to end our marriage. He only says things like "I don't see us having a loving relationship". Dare he just directly say "I want a divorce".
> 
> It hurts really badly, I know. Knowing what that's like, I hurt for you.


Yeah, my wife is going to have to learn how to be direct and to repeat herself.

I am on the path to improve me. 

And, talk about doubts. This morning she texted me and suggested a family vacation together.

So, there still may be hope, just not in a specific time period.


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## Jayb

sadwithouthim said:


> I'm Sorry she didn't keep her commitment to the therapy. My husband would never do therapy. Keep going to therapy for yourself. I'm not sure what causes a person to just give up. I'm sorry this happened to you. There's still always hope she will change her mind.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She does want to attend C with me in going through this transition period of ending the marriage.

I pray that she does change her mind. My ultimate prayer is that our marriage be restored.

But at this point, I am accepting what is, and not hanging onto false hopes. It is too rough emotionally to do so. 

So, it's like detaching from marriage, while strengthening our friendship.


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## sadwithouthim

Jayb said:


> Yeah, my wife is going to have to learn how to be direct and to repeat herself.
> 
> I am on the path to improve me.
> 
> And, talk about doubts. This morning she texted me and suggested a family vacation together.
> 
> So, there still may be hope, just not in a specific time period.


Wow....she must share brains with my husband. That is confusing. My husbands done that back and forth stuff for 14 months now. I would take the family vacation as a good sign. Maybe it will spark reconciliation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jayb

sadwithouthim said:


> Wow....she must share brains with my husband. That is confusing. My husbands done that back and forth stuff for 14 months now. I would take the family vacation as a good sign. Maybe it will spark reconciliation.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Anything is possible. I'm about to meet with my MC alone today (based on what I heard from my W yesterday). I can only assume I will hear the "time to accept this reality, it'll be better for everyone, etc." The thing is, only my wife and I know all of the information in between C sessions. So, I'll be open to some advice, but not other.

I do need to continue the progress in changing for myself. Already lost 20 pounds via regular exercise, back to attending church, looking for volunteering opportunities, reading, cultivating new and old friendships, asking for forgiveness, etc.

I'm only 4 weeks into this!


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## Tall Average Guy

Jayb said:


> She does want to attend C with me in going through this transition period of ending the marriage.
> 
> I pray that she does change her mind. My ultimate prayer is that our marriage be restored.
> 
> But at this point, I am accepting what is, and not hanging onto false hopes. It is too rough emotionally to do so.
> 
> So, it's like detaching from marriage, while strengthening our friendship.


I would suggest that you not do that. Detach from her across the board, working only on things dealing with your children. she has chosen to no longer be your wife. I strongly suspect she is still in contact with either the original other man or a second one. 

She wants to eat her cake and yet still have it right now - her exploring other relationships, you there as a backup to provide emotional support, the illusion that the family is still intact so she is not hurting the kids and her getting to not be the bad person by going through MC.

Continue to work on yourself, and let her go. I am sorry you are going through this and wish you the best.


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## Jayb

Tall Average Guy said:


> I would suggest that you not do that. Detach from her across the board, working only on things dealing with your children. she has chosen to no longer be your wife. I strongly suspect she is still in contact with either the original other man or a second one.
> 
> She wants to eat her cake and yet still have it right now - her exploring other relationships, you there as a backup to provide emotional support, the illusion that the family is still intact so she is not hurting the kids and her getting to not be the bad person by going through MC.
> 
> Continue to work on yourself, and let her go. I am sorry you are going through this and wish you the best.


Thanks. I am and will continue to do so.

There is no other guy. This has been verified several different times in several different ways.


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## sd212

Jayb said:


> Yeah, my wife is going to have to learn how to be direct and to repeat herself.
> 
> I am on the path to improve me.
> 
> And, talk about doubts. This morning she texted me and suggested a family vacation together.
> 
> So, there still may be hope, just not in a specific time period.


Our stories are so stinking similar! Well, except that darn OM thing I have to deal w/ that you don't 

Really though, my stbxw and I took a day trip this week w/ the kids and pretended to be a happy family. Then, she asked me again to go on family vacation this summer. i really hope it is hope for R but I really don't think it is. I think these folks are right, it is her absolving herself of guilt. That, and she would much prefer I do all the driving to the beach! How can these women think this is OK!??!!?! Honestly, Jayb, we will never get over them if we keep going down these roads.


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## Jayb

sd212 said:


> Our stories are so stinking similar! Well, except that darn OM thing I have to deal w/ that you don't
> 
> Really though, my stbxw and I took a day trip this week w/ the kids and pretended to be a happy family. Then, she asked me again to go on family vacation this summer. i really hope it is hope for R but I really don't think it is. I think these folks are right, it is her absolving herself of guilt. That, and she would much prefer I do all the driving to the beach! How can these women think this is OK!??!!?! Honestly, Jayb, we will never get over them if we keep going down these roads.


Well, I'm beginning to question if I really want to get back, because she isn't the person I married and loved years ago. So, why am I improving me, learning, loving.....to get with someone who has changed, and, is so different than I? And, as I am making these changes for me/us, she doesn't do anything??? I'm starting to understand the mutuality that needs to be involved with R.

I love spending time with my family. Even her, because I'm not so obsessed with analyzing every move or word. Rather, I'm laid back. And, she thinks it's ok, because she is so detached and assumes that since I know (have been told) she has no hope for our M, then, we might as well be friends.

I was told to use my anger in a purposeful way. To detach. 

Now understand, I'm thinking about all this at the same time I think about us R. Even after any kind of R, we have issues to work on. So, it's hard, hard work that can't be done by only 1 person and must be a mutual decision for the right reasons.

1 minute at a time. I've been praying like never before.


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## coachman

Jay you need to find a way to let her go and have it be ok.

Our stories and situations are similar and this is what I have to do as well. 

I know you are working on you and that is great, so am I but this weekend after reading and reading posts just like you do I think I am finally understanding that the only way to get her back is to move on. Fully move on. The kind of moving on where we need to put hope to bed. At this point I think your stbxw still knows she has you on a string and she will until she can see proof otherwise. 

We can work on ourselves all we want, which is great, but at the end of the day if you are still dreaming of R then we are never going to make progress. 

I think my new measuring stick of progress is how much I stop coming on TAM and how many small behaviors I can change that have gotten me to this point. The point of still having hope. The chances of us getting them back are slim to none and I now firmly believe that the only chance I have is somewhere down the road after the D is final. If that day comes when they have excepted responsibility for their actions and can show that they not only want to try again but are willing to do whatever it takes to make things right again. And what are the chances all of that happens.... I think you know.

I hate to bring you down even further but I also hate to read your posts knowing you still have way more hope than you should. I hope she comes back. Both of our wives. But right now the person they are is not who we want anyway. It may never be. I'm starting to think this is all a setup to lead us to the right one....the next relationship. The one that makes all of this worth it in the end.

Nobody is rooting for you more than me...but lets move on and see what happens. As scary as it is, I know now it's the only way.


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## Jayb

coachman said:


> Jay you need to find a way to let her go and have it be ok.
> 
> Our stories and situations are similar and this is what I have to do as well.
> 
> I know you are working on you and that is great, so am I but this weekend after reading and reading posts just like you do I think I am finally understanding that the only way to get her back is to move on. Fully move on. The kind of moving on where we need to put hope to bed. At this point I think your stbxw still knows she has you on a string and she will until she can see proof otherwise.
> 
> We can work on ourselves all we want, which is great, but at the end of the day if you are still dreaming of R then we are never going to make progress.
> 
> I think my new measuring stick of progress is how much I stop coming on TAM and how many small behaviors I can change that have gotten me to this point. The point of still having hope. The chances of us getting them back are slim to none and I now firmly believe that the only chance I have is somewhere down the road after the D is final. If that day comes when they have excepted responsibility for their actions and can show that they not only want to try again but are willing to do whatever it takes to make things right again. And what are the chances all of that happens.... I think you know.
> 
> I hate to bring you down even further but I also hate to read your posts knowing you still have way more hope than you should. I hope she comes back. Both of our wives. But right now the person they are is not who we want anyway. It may never be. I'm starting to think this is all a setup to lead us to the right one....the next relationship. The one that makes all of this worth it in the end.
> 
> Nobody is rooting for you more than me...but lets move on and see what happens. As scary as it is, I know now it's the only way.


Thanks. It hurts. I hurt. Right now, I cannot imagine opening my heart to anyone else. Ever.


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## coachman

I'm not saying you need to go out and try to find someone to fall in love with, but until your wife feels that she has really lost you I think she will always know she has you on string. Once she "feels" what it's like to have you move on...then and probably only then will she second guess her decisions.


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## Jayb

coachman said:


> I'm not saying you need to go out and try to find someone to fall in love with, but until your wife feels that she has really lost you I think she will always know she has you on string. Once she "feels" what it's like to have you move on...then and probably only then will she second guess her decisions.


True. Either she's really good at the 180. Really good at acting. Or, she's past any "feelings."

And given her disposition these days, even if/when she has second guesses/regrets/doubts, etc., she will be too stubborn to ask for forgiveness, or approach me about reuniting, etc. 

I get what you're saying, though.


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## sd212

Jayb, I think coachman is right. As you know I've been stuck in this same cycle and it hasn't gotten me anywhere. I know there is no OM in your situation but the minute there is, you'll get dropped like a bad habit. She's stringing you along for alot of reasons I think, and probably not even on purpose for some of them.

I'm starting to understand that there is no point in hoping she will second guess her decision. After stepping back and reading alot of stories here, it really doesn't happen that often. You've just gotta do what is best for you. It is taking me a long long time but I'm starting to get it.


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## This is me

Jayb, I have been poing and praying for you, which made me reflect on my situation. During our seperation, I always got little signs that she was uncertain of divorcing. I did the 180 to some degree and I would see her show concern and even ask if everything was alright, which is a curious question from someone who expressed a desire to divorce.

This all pointed to the MLC and fog she was in. 

If your wife is not giving you the slightest signs of R, then I would go to 180 as they call for in Divorce Busters. If you see signs along the way, you can readjust as needed, but if not, hopefully the 180 will help you move forwars with your life either way.

I am a true supporter of saving marriages and if at all possible want that for you, but if you are not getting any signs, you should look out for yourself.

My thoughts and prayers are with you!


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## Jayb

This is me said:


> Jayb, I have been poing and praying for you, which made me reflect on my situation. During our seperation, I always got little signs that she was uncertain of divorcing. I did the 180 to some degree and I would see her show concern and even ask if everything was alright, which is a curious question from someone who expressed a desire to divorce.
> 
> This all pointed to the MLC and fog she was in.
> 
> If your wife is not giving you the slightest signs of R, then I would go to 180 as they call for in Divorce Busters. If you see signs along the way, you can readjust as needed, but if not, hopefully the 180 will help you move forwars with your life either way.
> 
> I am a true supporter of saving marriages and if at all possible want that for you, but if you are not getting any signs, you should look out for yourself.
> 
> My thoughts and prayers are with you!


I truly appreciate it. When I think about how many people I know are praying for me, it warms my heart.

Thanks for your insight. Part of my piss and vinegar got me thinking today. If, for all intents and purposes, R is a 1% fantasy, then so is "making changes for myself, becoming a better me, improving myself, etc." In the end, things are as they will be. And if so, a majority of these posts at TAM, are more journaling/venting, than seeking for and applying answers...

The 180 will come eventually, right? Either by me trying now, or just plain happening to me in the future.

Sorry for the reaction. Hard times today after my W picked up the kids, after an awesome vacation.....


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## coachman

Jay - I think at this point you need to show her that you are 100% in agreement with the divorce. Don't mention anything about calling it off, in fact you may want to see what you can do to speed it up.

She has to think that you are done and are moving on with your life. Working on yourself is for you and forget about doing things to show her you've changed. You can't change her mind.

I'm going through the same things with me W except the OW is still in the picture. They have backed off physically but emotionally my W is still in the fog and pursuing the relationship. In my situation there is no hope for my W coming to her senses while the OW is still around. 

I will be moving out of the house in the next few weeks and getting on with my life. Do I think she is going to freak out emotionally when I leave...absolutely. I've been the one constant she has had for the last 9 years. But I know she won't want to R. I have to move on with my life and stop worrying about her. Whatever our wives are going through they have to do it on their own. I would be lying if I still didn't have some hope...but that hope I have now is what's holding me back from healing. I think that is how you need to approach this. If you work everyday at letting go of the hope then the pain and hurt will start getting a little better everyday. Let me say that some days are much easier than others. Right now the only reality is that they are gone and the marriage is over. Saying it is the easy part...excepting it in your heart and truly healing from it is a daily battle.

I still feel the only chance you have is to show her that you have excepted the D and are in agreement with what she wants. Once she see's that you have excepted it she may have second thoughts but please don't get your hopes up. The hope is the killer.

I told myself since D day that I wouldn't be the one to file for divorce but I've changed my attitude on this as well. I'll also be filing after Easter and it should only take a couple weeks to get finalized. This is just one more thing I need to do for myself to move forward and most importantly...with no expectations of R.


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## Jayb

coachman said:


> Jay - I think at this point you need to show her that you are 100% in agreement with the divorce. Don't mention anything about calling it off, in fact you may want to see what you can do to speed it up.
> 
> She has to think that you are done and are moving on with your life. Working on yourself is for you and forget about doing things to show her you've changed. You can't change her mind.
> 
> I'm going through the same things with me W except the OW is still in the picture. They have backed off physically but emotionally my W is still in the fog and pursuing the relationship. In my situation there is no hope for my W coming to her senses while the OW is still around.
> 
> I will be moving out of the house in the next few weeks and getting on with my life. Do I think she is going to freak out emotionally when I leave...absolutely. I've been the one constant she has had for the last 9 years. But I know she won't want to R. I have to move on with my life and stop worrying about her. Whatever our wives are going through they have to do it on their own. I would be lying if I still didn't have some hope...*but that hope I have now is what's holding me back from healing*. I think that is how you need to approach this. *If you work everyday at letting go of the hope then the pain and hurt will start getting a little better everyday*. Let me say that some days are much easier than others. Right now the only reality is that they are gone and the marriage is over. Saying it is the easy part...excepting it in your heart and truly healing from it is a daily battle.
> 
> I still feel the only chance you have is to show her that you have excepted the D and are in agreement with what she wants. Once she see's that you have excepted it she may have second thoughts but please don't get your hopes up. The hope is the killer.
> 
> I told myself since D day that I wouldn't be the one to file for divorce but I've changed my attitude on this as well. I'll also be filing after Easter and it should only take a couple weeks to get finalized. This is just one more thing I need to do for myself to move forward and most importantly...with no expectations of R.



True. When I mention my "hope" to others, it is funny to witness their facial expressions.

If there were real hope, wouldn't my wife have approached me yet? LOL.


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## coachman

Tell her you can't wait to start dating again and then let her think about that for a while.

See what kind of reaction you get.


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## Jayb

coachman said:


> Tell her you can't wait to start dating again and then let her think about that for a while.
> 
> See what kind of reaction you get.



I sort of went through that phase last fall when I drank through any processing.

I joined match.com. I removed married from my fb profile. She noticed both, _very quickly_. She was pissed. However, my response was, "you told me you wanted me to find someone and just move on."

The difference between then and now, is that I'm sober. I'm over my angry/bitter phase that ramped up our adversarial relationship (over child schedules).

Now, I'm the cool, calm person. I want a 2nd chance. I don't act out of emotion. Etc.

I survived the first 6 months of our separation by drinking. So, I didn't emotionally process anything like I am now doing. Because I do think back and wonder how I wasn't a basket case back then.

Now, dealing with all this is so much harder and painful because I feel the hurt so much more.


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## coachman

So now seems like the perfect time to act. Not out of emotion, but reality. Just because you want a second chance doesn't mean you will get it. Reality is...there is no behavior being shown to you that says you will get the R you so desire. 

I would never tell you to give up all hope. Have hope in your heart but start living like you know it will never happen. Stop thinking about it every moment. This is what I have to do and trust me, it's damn near impossible. But it has to get easier.

Maybe if she sees the new you and she thinks you have really moved on she will have that "wait a minute" moment of clarity. I sure hope she does. I just think you need to look at everything you have been doing that's not getting the results you want and make an adjustment. It doesn't have to be a huge shift but without trying new things and gauging the reactions to those behaviors I just don't think you will force her to reevaluate. Good luck.


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## arbitrator

Jayb said:


> I sort of went through that phase last fall when I drank through any processing.
> 
> I joined match.com. I removed married from my fb profile. She noticed both, _very quickly_. She was pissed. However, my response was, "you told me you wanted me to find someone and just move on."
> 
> The difference between then and now, is that I'm sober. I'm over my angry/bitter phase that ramped up our adversarial relationship (over child schedules).
> 
> Now, I'm the cool, calm person. I want a 2nd chance. I don't act out of emotion. Etc.
> 
> I survived the first 6 months of our separation by drinking. So, I didn't emotionally process anything like I am now doing. Because I do think back and wonder how I wasn't a basket case back then.
> 
> Now, dealing with all this is so much harder and painful because I feel the hurt so much more.


Jayb:

I've read the vast majority of your posts tonight and, God bless you, you appear to be a fighter...and that's commendable. You're fighting for the relationship, you're fighting to retain a situation whereby the children's Mom and Dad are still together for their well being, you're fighting for your family and for that, I am so dang proud of you. In fact, I envy you!

Now if you go to the earlier postings, it is rather apparent that you had a quantitative suspicion of some marital wrong-doing on her part. Judging from your findings, it is rather apparent that minimally, there was definitely an EA on her part, with some pretty heavy circumstancial evidence of a PA. It is apparent that she is richly denying both of those assertions, and fostering the mantra that she is simply one of those with the "Walk-Away-Wife-Syndrome." In either event, she has not fully refuted or refuses to refute the EA/PA possibility. Now that's either because she is in total denial of what she did, she is PO'd by your divorce filing(which under the same circumstances I would have also done).

Judging from your description, it appears that she has either "shut down" from you or is so deep into that process, to the point that she is perhaps too far gone. My assumption is largely based on her presence in MC with you as only a supportive figure, and not trying as you are, to save the relationship. Judging strictly from your evidence, my intuition tells me that an EA/PA definitely took place on her watch and she is fastly in denial. Deniability on her part is the only possible thing that could possibly "save her bacon" inasfar as custody of your kids go, because she would probably resent ponying up monthly child support payments to you.

But that's not to say that reconciliation is not a viable option. But only if she embraces it with a heartfelt attitude, and not from one of being totally or semi-disengaged from your relationship.

The old saying that "it takes two to tango" is relavent here. But right now, I only see you dancing a solo. Until such time that she makes genuine contrition with you, I think that she wants out.

Have you interviewed her family(Mom/Dad/Sisters/Brothers/Cousins), even mutual friends, et. al. to see what they see in all of this? In any event, I know you love her or you wouldn't be fighting her to the degree that you are. But unless she becomes as reconciling as you are, then I don't quite think that the odds are going to hold out a lot of hope.

I'm going to pray for your reconciliation, but if it doesn't come about for some reason, then you'll need to make some very hard and fast choices about your personal life. You will always remain in my prayers, brother! And I'll be here if you ever need to talk or vent. God Bless You!


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## Jayb

arbitrator said:


> Jayb:
> 
> I've read the vast majority of your posts tonight and, God bless you, you appear to be a fighter...and that's commendable. You're fighting for the relationship, you're fighting to retain a situation whereby the children's Mom and Dad are still together for their well being, you're fighting for your family and for that, I am so dang proud of you. In fact, I envy you!
> 
> Now if you go to the earlier postings, it is rather apparent that you had a quantitative suspicion of some marital wrong-doing on her part. Judging from your findings, it is rather apparent that minimally, there was definitely an EA on her part, with some pretty heavy circumstancial evidence of a PA. It is apparent that she is richly denying both of those assertions, and fostering the mantra that she is simply one of those with the "Walk-Away-Wife-Syndrome." In either event, she has not fully refuted or refuses to refute the EA/PA possibility. Now that's either because she is in total denial of what she did, she is PO'd by your divorce filing(which under the same circumstances I would have also done).
> 
> Judging from your description, it appears that she has either "shut down" from you or is so deep into that process, to the point that she is perhaps too far gone. My assumption is largely based on her presence in MC with you as only a supportive figure, and not trying as you are, to save the relationship. Judging strictly from your evidence, my intuition tells me that an EA/PA definitely took place on her watch and she is fastly in denial. Deniability on her part is the only possible thing that could possibly "save her bacon" inasfar as custody of your kids go, because she would probably resent ponying up monthly child support payments to you.
> 
> But that's not to say that reconciliation is not a viable option. But only if she embraces it with a heartfelt attitude, and not from one of being totally or semi-disengaged from your relationship.
> 
> The old saying that "it takes two to tango" is relavent here. But right now, I only see you dancing a solo. Until such time that she makes genuine contrition with you, I think that she wants out.
> 
> Have you interviewed her family(Mom/Dad/Sisters/Brothers/Cousins), even mutual friends, et. al. to see what they see in all of this? In any event, I know you love her or you wouldn't be fighting her to the degree that you are. But unless she becomes as reconciling as you are, then I don't quite think that the odds are going to hold out a lot of hope.
> 
> I'm going to pray for your reconciliation, but if it doesn't come about for some reason, then you'll need to make some very hard and fast choices about your personal life. You will always remain in my prayers, brother! And I'll be here if you ever need to talk or vent. God Bless You!


Thanks. She admits wrongdoing. Insofar as convincing herself she is over me. She went through these actions to prove to herself that she could. 

Her family really struggles with the situation, but supports her, because she is family. Many realize she has changed in the past few years. And by change, I mean, slightly like MLC. She's more outgoing, into friends, etc. No men involved. It's almost like out of the group of her 3 close friends, who are all married, they are influencing her and living vicariously through her in making the decision to end our marriage and moving on. That's my guess.

When I really stop and think, I am chasing after someone who isn't there. She isn't the same person she was 5 years ago. So, I guess I'm mourning the loss of that person.

It's frustrating to see all my effort and receive no acknowledgement.


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## cabin fever

are you still doing the 180? It doesn't work if you don't stick to it! I know you have kids, but don't let it be an excuse to stay in contact with her.  

remember the only way she is going to realize what she had, is to actually lose it. Don't know what you got, till its gone!
She has her independence, but she also has her buddy (you). She has the best of both worlds. You need to focus on you. 

Keep telling yourself, you deserve better! You deserve to be happy. You might think you can only be happy with her, and that is a perfectly normal feeling. But the reality is, you have to be able to be happy with yourself. 

Try to find someething to keep yourself busy this weekend. Go to a movie, watch a game, watch a race, rent a movie, read a book, go for a walk, clean your car, clean your house, go to the bar and get a samwich, Go to the mall, anything to keep you busy. you get the idea. 

once you start doing things on your own, you'll find out its easier then you think. You'll feel better about yourself, it will be easier to be alone, your wife won't see you as needy. 

come on man, cheer up, its Friday!


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## Jayb

cabin fever said:


> are you still doing the 180? It doesn't work if you don't stick to it! I know you have kids, but don't let it be an excuse to stay in contact with her.
> 
> remember the only way she is going to realize what she had, is to actually lose it. Don't know what you got, till its gone!
> She has her independence, but she also has her buddy (you). She has the best of both worlds. You need to focus on you.
> 
> Keep telling yourself, you deserve better! You deserve to be happy. You might think you can only be happy with her, and that is a perfectly normal feeling. But the reality is, you have to be able to be happy with yourself.
> 
> Try to find someething to keep yourself busy this weekend. Go to a movie, watch a game, watch a race, rent a movie, read a book, go for a walk, clean your car, clean your house, go to the bar and get a samwich, Go to the mall, anything to keep you busy. you get the idea.
> 
> once you start doing things on your own, you'll find out its easier then you think. You'll feel better about yourself, it will be easier to be alone, your wife won't see you as needy.
> 
> come on man, cheer up, its Friday!



Pretty much. No contact with her in 3 days while she had our children. Yesterday was very good.

What makes the 180 a little easier is that she isn't contacting me either! LOL. I really did look pathetic contacting her a lot of times when she doesn't reciprocate.

I have to write out a list of things to do--thanks for some ideas. What I found out was that if I didn't have anything planned, then it was so easy to let my mind wander.

The doubts about her and R are increasing. And my future opportunities at happiness are increasing too.


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## arbitrator

Jayb said:


> Thanks. She admits wrongdoing. Insofar as convincing herself she is over me. She went through these actions to prove to herself that she could.
> 
> Her family really struggles with the situation, but supports her, because she is family. Many realize she has changed in the past few years. And by change, I mean, slightly like MLC. She's more outgoing, into friends, etc. No men involved. It's almost like out of the group of her 3 close friends, who are all married, they are influencing her and living vicariously through her in making the decision to end our marriage and moving on. That's my guess.
> 
> When I really stop and think, I am chasing after someone who isn't there. She isn't the same person she was 5 years ago. So, I guess I'm mourning the loss of that person.
> 
> It's frustrating to see all my effort and receive no acknowledgement.


Jayb:

A vast amount of similarity in our cases. But I do suspect some philandering on my STBXW's part on FB. But she is not the same woman she was 8 or even 2 years ago. At least not to me. In a lot of respects, I grew closer to her family than she already was.
But legal counsel said not to contact them now, and I can respect that! But you can rest assured that when the dust is finally settled that I'll be talking in confidence with several of them.

Jayb, like you, I have my moments of weakness and it literally tears my heart out to think what me and STBXW once had inasfar as loving feelings were concerned. But she has elevated those feelings to money related matters and to probably someone who makes her feel alive again through whatever process. But I fully realize that she is not the same person and will never be that person again. She loves my sons, and I can't fault her for that. But she no longer has any love for me after a 7+ year relationship. I do love her, but I'm finding that it is not the "agape" love that I once held for her. I lay awake a lot of nights thinking where I went wrong, but I've come to realize that a lot of this was never my fault.

Take care of yourself. Will visit soon! Peace!


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## arbitrator

Jayb said:


> And my future opportunities at happiness are increasing too.


Jayb: That's exactly what I wanted to see from you! God bless you, brother! No one said that the road to your recovery was going to be easy, but as you continue to walk in His path and in His light, it will make your journey so much more redeeming!


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## sadwithouthim

arbitrator said:


> Jayb: That's exactly what I wanted to see from you! God bless you, brother! No one said that the road to your recovery was going to be easy, but as you continue to walk in His path and in His light, it will make your journey so much more redeeming!


I was a wreck....crying hysterically every day, all day. I was suicidal. All that for about 13 months. Then I started divorce care about 5 weeks ago. It is a christian based program. I can't say I'm 100 percent but in the last 5 weeks I'd only have about 3 crying episodes. I've tried everything in the past 13 months. It wasn't until I opened my heart and put my trust in God am I starting to finally heal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## arbitrator

sadwithouthim said:


> I was a wreck....crying hysterically every day, all day. I was suicidal. All that for about 13 months. Then I started divorce care about 5 weeks ago. It is a christian based program. I can't say I'm 100 percent but in the last 5 weeks I'd only have about 3 crying episodes. I've tried everything in the past 13 months. It wasn't until I opened my heart and put my trust in God am I starting to finally heal.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And God bless you too, Sad! Just keep believing that with His continued presence in your life, you'll always have a solid shoulder to lean on!


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## sadwithouthim

This is me said:


> You are doing what you should be doing. Don't listen to those who are not in your shoes. I can not tell you how many times in the past year I have been advised her on TAM to divorce my wife. She moved back home this past week.
> 
> Everyone here brings their own issues into the advice they give and none are experts on anything but their own experiences. I have noticed some here that are divorced who always recommend divorce as the only option. Everytime single time.
> 
> People are easily influenced in their weakest moments, which ticks me off when I see these daily visitors to this website carrying the banner for divorce.
> 
> If there is an ounce of hope and you really want to save your marriage, don't let the neigh sayers steer you into their worlds.


I needed this tonight. I don't want a divorce. Deep down i know he still cares. I hope he changes his mind. I hope your R is going well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## noelle

If you have yet to visit WELCOME - Rejoice Marriage Ministries then I suggest you do so, it is a website dedicated to restoration of marriage in a Godly way. Even the most volatile circumstances can turn around into the best marriage. Pray on this matter and focus on what you believe is right, what God expects of you. Often times your friends, family and even other members of your church will push you towards divorce when it is not the right option. Don't give up on her. Pray without ceasing. I am praying for you too.


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