# New member intro



## Avgman

Hi, I've been looking around on here on and off for 8 years now. I'm 39, married since 2010, 1 teenage son. Wife and I dated since 2002 before getting married. I was brought to this site after I found out my wife had been having a physical relationship with what I thought was my best friend. I knew of the emotional part before getting married to only find out about the physical part shortly after the marriage. I figured I'd finally join so I could possibly offer advice and also have a place to vent from time to time as this situation still bothers me.


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## farsidejunky

This is difficult...even years later.

What has been done by both of you since the discovery of the affair? 

Clearly something in your gut is telling you that not all is well. Let's see if we can unpack it.


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## Mr.Married

Just so it is clear:

The entire situation (emotional and physical) happened before marriage ..... is this correct?

If it happened before marriage....did it happen while you were dating?


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## Avgman

Yes it all happened before the marriage. I found out about the emotional part of it days before the marriage, continued on with it and then found out about the physical part days later. We had been dating 8 years prior to this. There are a lot more stories tied into this relationship, I didn't add them because I didn't feel the intro was the appropriate place. As for the other comment, nothing really has been done. We did the counseling sessions but that was a waste...at times we are good, I didn't trust her at the beginning which I believe is understandable, then as time went on I thought I was building that trust back to where now I believe it's just I simply don't care.


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## Laurentium

Avgman said:


> As for the other comment, nothing really has been done. We did the counseling sessions but that was a waste


what happened in the sessions?


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## Avgman

The sessions felt like it was either it's time to forgive and forget or move on, those are the two choices you have. We talked to the counselor together then one on one....I felt like after her session with him it was all on me. It basically boiled down to she wasn't in love with me anymore because I didn't show her attention and she wanted to hurt me as bad as she could so she picked the best friend. It was a double whammy, I was the best man in this guy's wedding only a year prior to this and him and his wife were expecting their first child 2 months after all this hit the fan.


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## Avgman

And to top it off, I had just paid for all of us to go on vacation together. Supposedly this is when he put the first move on her. He was actually so drunk he got sick and I was washing his truck for him so his wife wouldn't go nuts, he's in the truck telling my other half how he wants to be with her. The next day we all are getting ready to go out and my bf and gf are no where to be found, an hour later they show up saying they wanted to go check out the pool. At this time we already have our sin, he's 7 years old when all of this is happening. When we get home she discovers a family member has passed away, I send her in a plane to be with them. When she was gone we text each other maybe 30 times the 3 days she was gone, they text in the 1800 to 2000 text message range. I find all this out a few months later, when I actually realize something is going on. 

,


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## 3Xnocharm

Avgman said:


> The sessions felt like it was either it's time to forgive and forget or move on, those are the two choices you have. We talked to the counselor together then one on one....I felt like after her session with him it was all on me. I*t basically boiled down to she wasn't in love with me anymore because I didn't show her attention and she wanted to hurt me as bad as she could* so she picked the best friend. It was a double whammy, I was the best man in this guy's wedding only a year prior to this and him and his wife were expecting their first child 2 months after all this hit the fan.


So why in the world did she marry you? And once you learned of her lack of feelings, why would you stay?


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## Avgman

The reason I heard was she didn't realize how much I cared for her, of course this was after I found out...and for me I have no reason, maybe it's because I wasn't always the best... about 2 years before all of this I had moved out of my house, our home I guess you call it due to her financial issues (which still plaque us today) and had a relationship with another woman. I realized this wasn't what I wanted and moved back home after a few months...I guess I felt like it was our "now we are even".


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## wilson

Since you've been around this site for 8 years, you must be familiar with these kinds of situations and how they work out. What kind of advice would you give to someone who posted a similar story?


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## Avgman

Honestly I'm not sure. I've seen them play out both ways...the past 8 years I could almost guarantee nothing has happened. I think everyone's situation is different, even if they have similar problems. I just don't know how to answer that, I don't know if 8 years later I can give up after I made it out like I forgave. I joined here because I felt guilty only reading other people's post without at least going through mine...I don't know, I thought it would all be okay by now, we as recently as weekend before last had a 2 hour conversation about everything that happened...


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## Mr.Married

Avgman said:


> we as recently as weekend before last had a 2 hour conversation about everything that happened...


How did the conversation go ?


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## Avgman

It basically starts off with her saying how happy she is and how good of a man I am, I answer back with I'm the same person I was in 2010. Then it's just a long drawn out conversation on how did you do this, why did you do this, will I ever know the truth about what all has really happened since we've been together...she usually hangs in there just being apologetic, then she gets defensive and tells me how she didn't think I loved her and he told her everything she wanted to hear...then the conversation just ends, I realize it's not going anywhere...


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## EllisRedding

So to your knowledge, when was the last time your W had a physical/emotional affair with this guy? Can we assume this "friend' is no longer in either or your lives? Do you have any concerns that you W has been unfaithful since (or will in the future)?


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## 3Xnocharm

You may have to come to terms with the fact that you just cannot get over this. Not everyone can, even when the cheating spouse does the work they should. Have you two gone thru marriage counseling about this?


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## Avgman

The last time was in Oct of 2010, this is when I found out something was going on. I'm not sure if any contact was made right after or not. Yes, this guy is no longer in our lives at all. I use to work with him, I was his only friend for a while...I helped him move up at our company and all that. I don't know if she would or not, I didn't think she would have ever in a million years mess with this guy... I didn't think he would do this either, so I don't know. Since the company we worked for folded up I haven't seen him or his wife since, they only live maybe 25 mins from us.


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## Avgman

We went through counseling right after it happened...felt like it was a waste. And I agree, right now I'd have to say I'll probably never get over it...I can admit that, I'm hoping one day I will but it's not looking good...


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## wilson

Avgman said:


> We went through counseling right after it happened...felt like it was a waste. And I agree, right now I'd have to say I'll probably never get over it...I can admit that, I'm hoping one day I will but it's not looking good...


A huge part of recovering will depend on your ability to forgive this terrible event. That can be impossibly difficult. If you aren't able to see a time when you can fully love her again, then your future will likely be similar to how it is now.

How is the rest of your relationship? If there was a memory-erasing procedure that could remove all traces of the affair from your and your wife's memories, how would your marriage be and how do you think it would be in the future?


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## BluesPower

Avgman said:


> It basically starts off with her saying how happy she is and how good of a man I am, I answer back with I'm the same person I was in 2010. Then it's just a long drawn out conversation on how did you do this, why did you do this, will I ever know the truth about what all has really happened since we've been together...she usually hangs in there just being apologetic, then she gets defensive and tells me how she didn't think I loved her and he told her everything she wanted to hear...then the conversation just ends, I realize it's not going anywhere...


Well I guess if you have been reading here and elsewhere, if you can read and comprehend, that maybe you understand the following things: 

1) You were a fool to marry her.
2) The counselor that you guys went to is a moron and is like a lot of MC's that don't know how, in any way, to handle infidelity. Move on or get over it is not how it works.
3) You married under false pretenses. 
4) Of course everything you did after the discovery was wrong in every way. 
5) Your now wife is a) not remorseful b) not trustworthy c) does not really give a **** what you think and d) there are so many more things that could be said.

So, then you also understand that because you were young and miss handled everything, which lots of us have, that THIS is the reason that you have not really been able to move on from her infidelity. 

I mean, you get all this... Right?


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## Avgman

wilson said:


> Avgman said:
> 
> 
> 
> We went through counseling right after it happened...felt like it was a waste. And I agree, right now I'd have to say I'll probably never get over it...I can admit that, I'm hoping one day I will but it's not looking good...
> 
> 
> 
> A huge part of recovering will depend on your ability to forgive this terrible event. That can be impossibly difficult. If you aren't able to see a time when you can fully love her again, then your future will likely be similar to how it is now.
> 
> How is the rest of your relationship? If there was a memory-erasing procedure that could remove all traces of the affair from your and your wife's memories, how would your marriage be and how do you think it would be in the future?
Click to expand...


If you take away the cheating we have a good relationship, her ability to manage money scares me. This was a problem I referenced earlier. I feel like I have to keep a close eye on her and when I mention something she gets mad and says I'm treating her like a child. When we got married, after finding out all this I got hit with a 12K school loan she hadn't paid that she told me was handled. She has recently run up a few credit cards again (maybe 4k), other than that I guess the cheating would be the only complaint. So if there was a magic procedure that could erase the affair it would be nothing more than to the constant battle of managing how she spends money


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## Avgman

BluesPower, I understand exactly what your saying. may ask what experiences you have and how you handled them? That's why I'm here, isn't this why most of us are here, to look for advice a d to see how others handled their situation?


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## wilson

I'm sorry if things sound harsh in this mode of communication, but it sounds like she isn't very mature. Affair, overspends, snaps at you... I think you're right to treat her like a child since she's acting like one. Based on your 16-year relationship, she has to be close to your age. I'm sorry to be blunt, but dude! you could do so much better! You're at the age where you have plenty of time to turn your life around and meet someone who really brings you joy. I think that even if you were single you'd be happier. It sounds like you're hanging on out of momentum rather than this relationship brings you joy.

Have you read "No More Mr. Nice Guy"? You've probably heard it mentioned around here. It may be useful for you to read to be able to stand up for your desires and take more control of your future.


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## Avgman

I understand it's going to be some harsh feedback, believe me no one can beat up worse than I have done myself over the last 8 years...I will look into this book tonight, I'm working nights this entire weekend. Yes we are close in age, as mentioned earlier I'm 39 and she's 36. As far fetched as it may seem after I wrote the last post another notice came in the mail about an overdue credit card. These things add extra stress, our son is getting ready to drive so I'm looking for him a vehicle, adding him to the insurance, we just bought a new house 3 years ago, more land and bought a new boat in October. All of this and she only pays the trash bill and her new car payment... which I've made once to try to help her out. I just had to stroke a check for $750 to pay her taxes on her car that she didn't pay last year....

I can already see the post coming, I know this all looks terrible...even as I read my own comments I think what a dummy.


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## happydad

Avgman said:


> I understand it's going to be some harsh feedback, believe me no one can beat up worse than I have done myself over the last 8 years...I will look into this book tonight, I'm working nights this entire weekend. Yes we are close in age, as mentioned earlier I'm 39 and she's 36. As far fetched as it may seem after I wrote the last post another notice came in the mail about an overdue credit card. These things add extra stress, our son is getting ready to drive so I'm looking for him a vehicle, adding him to the insurance, we just bought a new house 3 years ago, more land and bought a new boat in October. All of this and she only pays the trash bill and her new car payment... which I've made once to try to help her out. I just had to stroke a check for $750 to pay her taxes on her car that she didn't pay last year....
> 
> I can already see the post coming, I know this all looks terrible...even as I read my own comments I think what a dummy.


Has this been eating at you for 8 years or did something happen recently to cause you to come on here? Have you been doing any monitoring to see if she has been faithful the last 8 years?


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## Avgman

I don't think a day has went by in the last 8 years and haven't at least thought about it once. Some days are worse, some days it doesn't bother me at all... I think recently I had a dream about it, ate me up so bad I actually rode to where she use to work and they would meet. I know, that's sad but it's what I did. I told her about it, actually that was part of our conversation the other night.


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## Adelais

Avgman said:


> The reason I heard was she didn't realize how much I cared for her, of course this was after I found out...and for me I have no reason, maybe it's because I wasn't always the best... *about 2 years before all of this I had moved out of my house, our home I guess you call it due to her financial issues (which still plaque us today) and had a relationship with another woman. *I realized this wasn't what I wanted and moved back home after a few months...I guess I felt like it was our "now we are even".


As a woman, if my man did that, even though he came back, I would always wonder if he really loved me or if he only came back because we have children together. I think you need to cut her some slack. What both of you did was wrong, if you loved each other, and yes, now you are even.

Does she bring up when you moved out to live with another woman?

Get rid of her credit cards, and keep only one that you both use for agreed upon expenses (gas, phone, life insurance, etc.) and take over all the finances before she ruins your credit.

Why did you wait for so many years to marry? Do you regret marrying in general, even if she hadn't cheated on you before marriage?


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## Avgman

As a woman, if my man did that, even though he came back, I would always wonder if he really loved me or if he only came back because we have children together. I think you need to cut her some slack. What both of you did was wrong, if you loved each other, and yes, now you are even.

Does she bring up when you moved out to live with another woman?

Get rid of her credit cards, and keep only one that you both use for agreed upon expenses (gas, phone, life insurance, etc.) and take over all the finances before she ruins your credit.

Why did you wait for so many years to marry? Do you regret marrying in general, even if she hadn't cheated on you before marriage?[/QUOTE]

She always wanted to get married, from the very beginning...I was the one who pushed it off. This is a terrible answer I know but I didn't see the importance of being married. I always said what does it matter. I now know it matters a lot, especially to her. Looking back, I wish it was all different... should have married around the time our son was born. She was actually just coming out of her first marriage then. I am in charge of the main finances, I do pretty good with my company. I'm making over 130k a year and she will probably make 15k. I provide two credit cards to her in which I pay, I supply one to our son in which I pay. I don't know why she went out and got two extras behind my back and ran them up. She claims it was to help her build her credit, now it's back in shambles. 

There are days I regret marrying after finding out what happened, then sometimes I wonder if it would have happened if I'd married her before then...


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## aine

Avgman said:


> The reason I heard was she didn't realize how much I cared for her, of course this was after I found out...and for me I have no reason, maybe it's because I wasn't always the best... about 2 years before all of this I had moved out of my house, our home I guess you call it due to her financial issues (which still plaque us today) and had a relationship with another woman. I realized this wasn't what I wanted and moved back home after a few months...I guess I felt like it was our "now we are even".


Well there you go, it took a while for you to share that one, and therein lies the issue. 
You focus on what she has done (which is dumb cause she is only hurting herself) but you blew up the marriage away before it and what is happening to you now, is because of what YOU have done. This is all on you I'm afraid.
You dumped her and then (so magnanimous of you) moved back in when you realized you didn't want another women. How the hell do you think that made her feel. You probably destroyed her. You are bloody lucky she even speaks to you. Of course she could never trust you again, why would she?
Your wife is not a dog or cat. In fact people treat their animals better than you have treated your wife, no point now crying over split milk. She could have handled it better but I can see why she wants to make you feel the way you made her feel, it's not so nice when the shoe is on the other foot either, right?

I suggest you let the OM have her, he'll probably treat her better than you.
A real man would have faced the financial issues dead on or instead filed for divorce.


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## aine

Avgman said:


> We went through counseling right after it happened...felt like it was a waste. And I agree, right now I'd have to say I'll probably never get over it...I can admit that, I'm hoping one day I will but it's not looking good...


You will never get over it, really, you are pulling that ****? What about what you did to your wife, do you think she will ever get over it? I see you have a much higher expectation of how you yourself should be treated, but dont apply the same of your treatment of others. You deserve whatever is coming tbh.

AND the people posting on this forum have also apparently "overlooked' that little bit of information of you having a relationship with another woman and dumping your wife and then moving back in again. 
HELLLOOOOOOO TAMERS are we all asleep today? THAT there changes everything! The wife wants to get even, I don't agree with her means, but I appreciate what is driving her. There is no saving this one, I am afraid. Move on.

AND, did you and her cheat on her first husband? I suspect you did? You guys have major issues with boundaries, respect in relationships, I think you both have to work on yourselves and go your separate ways.


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## jlg07

8 years doesn't mean anything if YOU are still not getting over this. If you feel "bad" about this, it is NOT your fault (other than rug sweeping). SHE is the one who cheated, not you. If you can't get past this, divorce her. YOU need to worry about YOU and your child, not her. This is YOUR boundary, not hers. If you can't let this go, then you need to let HER go.

Hopefully you booted your friend to the curb and never speak to him. what a POS he is. I don't know how you convinced yourself to marry her after you found this out.


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## Avgman

Actually married before I found out the physical part had happened. Of course the "friend" was booted time this came to surface...only dealt with him at work.


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## Avgman

Aine, when I moved out over the financial situation she had her time and freedom as well. We weren't married, she went out with other guys...I wouldn't say I expect higher for someone other than myself but I expect something similar to what I'm offering. I don't think anyone should settle for less than what they bring to the table. I do appreciate your comments, I knew going into this it wasn't a sympathy party and I didn't want it to be. I just wanted to share and hopefully work through it. There is plenty more that wasn't touched on. Actually when I met her the first husband was locked up, he got out and they had sex... she told me they were in the middle of a divorce. I found out about this about 2 years after it happened. Her best friend told me, I also found out a few other things that shouldn't have happened. I'm not saying and never did say either of us was a saint. This was just the introduce yourself post, I didn't go into full on details, although it appears 70% of our entire relationship is already on here.


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## Avgman

And just to be clear I do handle my finances very well. My family is very well taken care of. The first deal was she went on an online school and decided to quit. We were not married at the time and she told me she was paying on it...when I saw the bill over 12k I got upset, why did you lie? After we got married I paid that bill for her in full. We live in a very nice home, have nice vehicles, timeshares, take vacations, boat, do as we please and she pays on $30 bill a month...I think I'm more than "man up on the financial part" on my end...


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## jlg07

"If you take away the cheating we have a good relationship," -- so, you DO NOT have a good relationship, because, you know you CAN'T take away the cheating (and YOU obviously can't). 
She sounds very immature with the way she has NOT dealt with this and her immature way of dealing with finances.

Seems like you never made her feel the consequences of her cheating -- so what makes you think she hasn't done it again in the past 8 years?


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## Avgman

That's a good comment, it's apparent that haven't been able to forget about it. 

I don't know for a fact that she hasn't, like I said in an earlier post... maybe it's because I'm not checking up on her to see if anything is going on...there was a time when I would look at phone records, etc. I haven't since 2010... I remember the day I found out, the friend was at our house. She was going to town, she leaned over and kissed him on the cheek, like she had done forever and came over and told me bye... I remember seeing the way he looked at her, then he acted really weird... asking me how long did it take for him to get home from our house and stuff like that...he left shortly after she did, only to meet up with him. I looked at phone records and was absolutely floored, they we're texting 2000 to 4000 times a month. All that day they texted, he texted her as he sit at my house with me and my son. I guess I really couldn't tell you if she has done it again or not...I just haven't seen anything like that again. Maybe I'm not looking.


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## red oak

Avgman said:


> She always wanted to get married, from the very beginning...I was the one who pushed it off. This is a terrible answer *I know but I didn't see the importance of being married. I always said what does it matter. *I now know it matters a lot, especially to her. Looking back, I wish it was all different... should have married around the time our son was born. She was actually just coming out of her first marriage then. I am in charge of the main finances, I do pretty good with my company. I'm making over 130k a year and she will probably make 15k. I provide two credit cards to her in which I pay, I supply one to our son in which I pay. I don't know why she went out and got two extras behind my back and ran them up. She claims it was to help her build her credit, now it's back in shambles.
> 
> There are days I regret marrying after finding out what happened, then sometimes I wonder if it would have happened if I'd married her before then...


Know I'll probably get ripped questioning this sacred cow. But....
You already were married as long as you were committed. The saying for lack of knowledge people are destroyed.

What most consider marriage is actually each party claiming illegality or mental incapacity.

As for the cheating, it was your BF. Half of all cheating takes place with someone known to or close to the husband. Discover the reason and your well on your way to clarity.


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## Avgman

I agree...


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## sokillme

I have a longer answer which I will post but quickly, what does your wife actually bring to your life? She sounds awful. From reading your post it sounds like all she does for you is allow you to feel secure that you are married. That's not a good reason to be married though. You may have a better life being single, maybe you just are too afraid to take that chance.

People who cheat generally suck to be married to and not just because they cheat it's because the nature of marriage requires character, a person who cheats shows a very clear lack of such. Which is demonstrated by her overspending.

In other words don't be surprised that someone who was willing enough to cheat on you before you got married would also be willing enough to over spend and put you in dept after you are married. It's in her nature. Which means you really can be surprised if she cheats again. 

People can change their nature but it takes and Olympian effort and vigilance. Before all that it takes being self aware enough to know that your nature is cruel.


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## jlg07

Avgman said:


> That's a good comment, it's apparent that haven't been able to forget about it.
> 
> I don't know for a fact that she hasn't, like I said in an earlier post... maybe it's because I'm not checking up on her to see if anything is going on...there was a time when I would look at phone records, etc. I haven't since 2010... I remember the day I found out, the friend was at our house. She was going to town, she leaned over and kissed him on the cheek, like she had done forever and came over and told me bye... I remember seeing the way he looked at her, then he acted really weird... asking me how long did it take for him to get home from our house and stuff like that...he left shortly after she did, only to meet up with him. I looked at phone records and was absolutely floored, they we're texting 2000 to 4000 times a month. All that day they texted, he texted her as he sit at my house with me and my son. I guess I really couldn't tell you if she has done it again or not...I just haven't seen anything like that again. Maybe I'm not looking.


Maybe you SHOULD look into it a bit -- she may NOT be doing anything but you should for YOUR own sake. It may help you if you realize that she has stayed true for the past 8 years.


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## wilson

Avgman said:


> And just to be clear I do handle my finances very well. My family is very well taken care of. The first deal was she went on an online school and decided to quit. We were not married at the time and she told me she was paying on it...when I saw the bill over 12k I got upset, why did you lie? After we got married I paid that bill for her in full. We live in a very nice home, have nice vehicles, timeshares, take vacations, boat, do as we please and she pays on $30 bill a month...I think I'm more than "man up on the financial part" on my end...


I'll be interested to hear your thoughts on that Nice Guy book and if you relate to any of it. It's a very common pattern that a Nice Guy seeks out damaged women because he gets so much pleasure and satisfaction out of helping people. He often thinks that he can fix her problems through effort or kindness. But what often happens is that she instead sees that kindness as weakness and takes advantage of his giving nature. 

After all you've done for your wife, you might think she'd be bending over backwards to make it up to you. It doesn't seem to be working out that way. Ironically, she may respect you once you push back and start saying no.


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## Diana7

Avgman said:


> The sessions felt like it was either it's time to forgive and forget or move on, those are the two choices you have. We talked to the counselor together then one on one....I felt like after her session with him it was all on me. It basically boiled down to she wasn't in love with me anymore because I didn't show her attention and she wanted to hurt me as bad as she could so she picked the best friend. It was a double whammy, I was the best man in this guy's wedding only a year prior to this and him and his wife were expecting their first child 2 months after all this hit the fan.


Wow, what a disgusting thing she did to you and the other family. I have no idea how you could have stayed with someone anyone who is capable of such cold blooded pre-planned cruelty. So she was annoyed because you apparently weren't paying her enough attention and deliberately chose to cheat with your best friend who was married and expecting a baby?? How could you possibly trust her again after that? Or even like her again??A woman with any decency or integrity or any sort of moral values at all does not do something so appalling.


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## Avgman

I guess it's because I haven't always been the best man in the world. As you see I got called out earlier, which in fine with because I'm a big boy and know I'll need to be held accountable for my on actions as well. I guess initially I thought it was all on me, I deserved it, I should have married her and paid her more attention. As mentioned we both had our flings with other people prior to this happening..now granted these were overlooked and I thought we moved on since we both had messed up and we weren't married and all that good stuff.... Things had pretty much settled down or at least I'd thought. I was meeting her everyday for lunch at work, to me it was the first time we had both shown signs of maturing into a family. I reckon this is what started to bother me the most after the initial shock and thinking it was all on me. I know people will say y'all both had issues, blah, blah, that's fine, I've never said we were saints or I hadn't ever done anything wrong. It was more of the timing of this one and who it was with...


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