# today is our anniversary and not sure I want to celebrate it



## toomuchtotell (May 13, 2013)

I had posted a while back about my husband being disrespectful(some emotional and verbal abuse). I had discussed it with him after getting some great advice here on TAM and he seemed to get the message and stopped the name calling. Well, we went away and stayed in a bed and breakfast over the weekend for our anniversary. He made the plans, booked the hotel, did all the driving, got a room with a romantic whirpool tub (which we took advantage of), did everything he could to win me a prize on the boardwalk, and I was impressed as these loving gestures. 

However, I have adhd and he has very little patience for it (let's of course forget he has depression and OCD which I have put up with every day for years ). Several times I had forgotten things in the hotel room and we had to go back from the parking lot to hotel twice to retrieve them. We also had to stop at a drugstore to pick up an item I left at home. He made a comment that I had severe mental problems and might as well " be sitting there drooling on myself". This of course made me feel like sh!t. Also, he wanted to spend almost every moment of the trip at parties and bars drinking, wanted to stay out till all hours of the night which I do not like to do, and kept calling me lame and boring, that there was something wrong with me because everyone else in the area didn't have a problem staying out late partying. He also basically forced me to have sex with him when we got back to the hotel (I said no an pushed him away but didn't have the energy to argue at 2am) when he was drunk. I came home feeling worse than before I left. He is really trying to improve his behavior, and he is a good honest person but I feel like he will always be that immature guy who makes innapropriate comments and gestures. I guess I just need to take it or leave it at this point.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

The romantic get-away wins him brownie points. The second paragraph flushes them down the toilet and puts him in the doghouse for the next year. 

If you don't feel like celebrating (why would you), don't.


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## toomuchtotell (May 13, 2013)

Blondilocks said:


> The romantic get-away wins him brownie points. The second paragraph flushes them down the toilet and puts him in the doghouse for the next year.
> 
> If you don't feel like celebrating (why would you), don't.


Yes, that pretty much sums it up!


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## LoveAtDaisys (Jul 3, 2013)

That second paragraph tells me he doesn't respect you. It looks like he's taken two steps forward and five steps back.

He said you had severe mental problems? "You might as well be drooling on yourself"? I know were my husband to say something like that to me I'd be devastated and I don't have your history. That's cruel, doubly so all things considered.

He didn't want to spend time with YOU on the couple's trip he planned for...YOU? I'm guessing (and this is just a guess) he figured making the trip would be enough, and would make you happy. It wasn't. Couples don't have to share interests, and it's fine if you're a homebody while he's a party animal (although he shouldn't put you down for having a different idea of fun than him). However, on a trip the two of you made together to be together it makes NO sense to go off and "do you" and get mad at the other person for not having fun.

He FORCED HIMSELF ON YOU. That is NEVER okay. If the other party says no it ALWAYS means no. If you're dating, if you've been married for fifty years, man, woman, gay, straight, whatever. NO MEANS NO.

You say he's an "immature guy who makes inappropriate comments and gestures". That's fine to the rest of the world. You're his wife. He needs to treat YOU better. He is still being verbally and emotionally abusive. This was not him being better. And I feel like you should tell him in no uncertain terms that while you appreciate the trip and it was wonderful, you did not appreciate the way he treated you while on this trip.


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## toomuchtotell (May 13, 2013)

LoveAtDaisys said:


> That second paragraph tells me he doesn't respect you. It looks like he's taken two steps forward and five steps back.
> 
> He said you had severe mental problems? "You might as well be drooling on yourself"? I know were my husband to say something like that to me I'd be devastated and I don't have your history. That's cruel, doubly so all things considered.
> 
> ...


thank you for your insight  I kind of felt bad for not wanting to party till all hours, because I DID like to do that when we first met, but now 17 years it just doesn't interest me and hasn't for a very long time. Our last trip together he wanted to stay out at a nightclub until 4am and called me lame because I wanted to leave at 1:30am. He is 40 years old. I'm not saying you can't have fun at 40 but hanging out at clubs until dawn with people half your age isn't what I consider fun. I wish he had been more considerate of my wishes and not be so pushy all the time. Especially with the forced sex...I brought it up the next morning and he joked about how he "raped" me. He has a very vulgar sense of humor so that was funny to him. However, I WAS raped when I was in college so i didn't find it funny.

It's crazy how one minute we are having a nice time doing things like going to the aquarium (something I really enjoy doing and he likes it too) and having a great dinner at a Thai restaurant, and then everything goes downhill.


I was also reading a book about adhd and it was saying how important it is to marry a partner who is accepting of it and is willing to help you. I totally understand someone getting very frustrated but I feel like I married the opposite. Saying mean and cruel things is anything but accepting and helpful. I will have a talk with him tonight.


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

Good luck with your talks. Actions always speak louder than words.

My hubs was the same as yours about 7 years ago - emotionally and verbally abusive. One day I had enough and told him I was leaving - and left I did once I found a place for me and our baby to live. Sure enough, he suggested marriage counseling, so we went. Since then he's been much better and a lot more considerate of me. I just won't tolerate it at all - life is too short.

So my actions (of leaving him for a short time), caused him to really evaluate himself and his feelings for me. He NEVER wants to lose me. We'll be celebrating our 10 year wedding anniversary next May. 

Moral of the story: Actions speak louder than words. Don't threaten, just act!


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

toomuchtotell said:


> I guess I just need to take it or leave it at this point.


This seems to sum it up well. I mean, if you stay and he keeps doing the things he does, well, he's already shown you that's how he is. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. Right?


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

toomuchtotell said:


> thank you for your insight  I kind of felt bad for not wanting to party till all hours, because I DID like to do that when we first met, but now 17 years it just doesn't interest me and hasn't for a very long time. Our last trip together he wanted to stay out at a nightclub until 4am and called me lame because I wanted to leave at 1:30am. He is 40 years old. I'm not saying you can't have fun at 40 but hanging out at clubs until dawn with people half your age isn't what I consider fun. I wish he had been more considerate of my wishes and not be so pushy all the time. Especially with the forced sex...I brought it up the next morning and he joked about how he "raped" me. He has a very vulgar sense of humor so that was funny to him. However, I WAS raped when I was in college so i didn't find it funny.


ADHD vs OCD now there is a match made in heaven, can't figure out how you two made it this far, wow. You need on today to sit down with just the two of you and have a very frank discussion, just like you did here. Do not mince words, say it directly and matter of fact, so that there are no misunderstandings as to what you mean. If you sweep this under the rug, this will only fester and will happen again ...... because ....... I bet he came home thinking this was a great weekend and that he did good. The rape thing puts you in a entire different category that he needs to be real sensative with, don't let that pass. Too many times people let things fester to the point of no return before they say something. Like Barney Fife said "you need to nip it, nip it in the bud".


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## toomuchtotell (May 13, 2013)

VFW said:


> ADHD vs OCD now there is a match made in heaven, can't figure out how you two made it this far, wow.


Yes, this is a major source of our problems.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

He's FORTY? I was picturing his actions & abuse coming from a 19 or 20 year old. Tell him to grow the hell up!


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

toomuchtotell said:


> He also basically forced me to have sex with him...





toomuchtotell said:


> ...he is a good honest person


How can you make both of these statements? One seems to be mutually exclusive to the other.


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## toomuchtotell (May 13, 2013)

I talked to him about it over dinner last night. He said he didn't think it was a big deal that I didn't want to party as much as he did. He didn't seem to remember calling me lame and boring several times. He also claims he didn't force me to have sex, he was just being "aggressive" and thought I'd LIKE it  

It's interesting how his recollection of events is so different than mine. I guess that's because he pretty much got his way with everything which he's learned to do by being pushy until I give in and can't put up with him any more. My recollection of events is that I spent the whole time feeling pressured to drink and party when I'd had enough and was tired of the whole thing. He had a blast, however.


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

I was going to mention this yesterday, but decided not to, but here goes. The whole 50 Shades of Grey thing has stirred up the notion of women's desire for aggressive sex. It is true some women do, some want it once in awhile and others never. These aren't right or wrong, they are just preferences. If because of your past experiences you are a never kind of gal, then tell him. If you do once in awhile, but have reservations, set up a safe word so he knows that stop immediately. Me I never cared how they liked it as long as I get to participate, but that's just me.

However, this communication thing is a greater issue that really needs to be addressed. I highly recommend that you two go to counseling to find out how to communicate with one another. I have seen too many times one partner ASSUMES that the other one must know that I am unhappy and then the pot finally boils over the other spouse is oblivious to the problem. I could be wrong, but it seems like we have some issues with alcohol here as well.


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## IsGirl3 (Nov 13, 2012)

your husband is mean and cruel and disrespectful and an animal. you seem to think a few acts of kindness makes this all go away, so you take it over and over and over again.

saying that you have severe mental problems and that you're like a baby drooling on yourself is one of the cruelist things someone could say. he's not even your friend. and if you think this is how friends talk to each other, you are wrong. if you were still in school and someone said that to you, you would not be their friend.

so here you are married to such a horrible person, who turns on the charm and wins you back every time. what's a nice Thai dinner out if he's going to treat you like $hit time and time again.

You shouldn't be celebrating your anniversary with this poor excuse of a husband, but celebrating your freedom from him. It's time for you to go. you deserve way better than this.


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

IsGirl3 said:


> your husband is mean and cruel and disrespectful and an animal....
> 
> so here you are married to such a horrible person, who turns on the charm and wins you back every time. what's a nice Thai dinner out if he's going to treat you like $hit time and time again.
> 
> You shouldn't be celebrating your anniversary with this poor excuse of a husband, but celebrating your freedom from him. It's time for you to go. you deserve way better than this.


Wow, IsGirl3 really sugar-coated this one.

Learning Taoism: Releasing Judgement | Personal Tao

OP, work on you and begin to enforce your boundaries. Only you can advocate for you. Trust me, if you can't be a cheerleader for your own life, you are letting others drive you down a road you don't know to a place you wouldn't care to visit.


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## toomuchtotell (May 13, 2013)

It's weird because when he would say things like that in the beginning of our relationship I would get so angry and lash out at him (which I now realize was the wrong way to set boundaries and therefore didn't work). Now, after years and years when I hear it, it doesn't even register. When he says it, I feel nothing. And when I do bring it to his attention, he responds in one of two ways - 1. he's just telling the truth, or 2. he didn't say that. Then I start to think I'm overreacting. I changed my approach in setting boundards and has made a concerted effort to improve his treatment of me because he doesn't want to lose me, but sometimes he doesn't even realize when he is being mean and cruel. Since we don't have kids, I wonder why I should even stay in the relationship when I could probably easily find someone who is loving and nice without me having to tell them to be that way, right?


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## IsGirl3 (Nov 13, 2012)

right.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

toomuchtotell said:


> It's weird because when he would say things like that in the beginning of our relationship I would get so angry and lash out at him (which I now realize was the wrong way to set boundaries and therefore didn't work). Now, after years and years when I hear it, it doesn't even register. When he says it, I feel nothing. And when I do bring it to his attention, he responds in one of two ways - 1. he's just telling the truth, or 2. he didn't say that. Then I start to think I'm overreacting. I changed my approach in setting boundards and has made a concerted effort to improve his treatment of me because he doesn't want to lose me, but sometimes he doesn't even realize when he is being mean and cruel. *Since we don't have kids, I wonder why I should even stay in the relationship when I could probably easily find someone who is loving and nice without me having to tell them to be that way, right?*


I think we're all wondering that too.


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## toomuchtotell (May 13, 2013)

Nucking Futs said:


> I think we're all wondering that too.


Because we get along just fine 99% of the time. That's what makes it hard to leave.


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## Chaotic (Jul 6, 2013)

toomuchtotell said:


> Now, after years and years when I hear it, it doesn't even register. When he says it, I feel nothing. And when I do bring it to his attention, he responds in one of two ways - 1. he's just telling the truth, or 2. he didn't say that. Then I start to think I'm overreacting.



I totally hear you. This is my relationship. The idea of the husband being insulting and then saying "well, it's just the truth" like that makes it okay to hurt your feelings. 
I don't know if someone recommended it already, but have you read Bancroft's "Why Does he Do That?" I have read it twice and underlined half the book. It's pretty eye-opening.
Also, if you know any couples whose marriages you admire--people who seem happy and well-adjusted--picture the husband saying to the wife the things YOUR husband says to you. Or picture the whole scene playing out in a movie or TV show, and think about how you'd feel about him then.

I know what you mean about it being hard to leave when "we get along 99% of the time", though. My husband is also cruel and insulting when he feels like it, and then he'll turn around and be sweet and loving, and then he'll get mad about something and ignore me, but then, bam, he gets over it and he's sweet again. It's like living with Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. But maybe it's worth leaving Dr. Jekyll if it gets Mr. Hyde out of your life?


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## toomuchtotell (May 13, 2013)

Chaotic said:


> I totally hear you. This is my relationship. The idea of the husband being insulting and then saying "well, it's just the truth" like that makes it okay to hurt your feelings.
> I don't know if someone recommended it already, but have you read Bancroft's "Why Does he Do That?" I have read it twice and underlined half the book. It's pretty eye-opening.
> Also, if you know any couples whose marriages you admire--people who seem happy and well-adjusted--picture the husband saying to the wife the things YOUR husband says to you. Or picture the whole scene playing out in a movie or TV show, and think about how you'd feel about him then.
> 
> I know what you mean about it being hard to leave when "we get along 99% of the time", though. My husband is also cruel and insulting when he feels like it, and then he'll turn around and be sweet and loving, and then he'll get mad about something and ignore me, but then, bam, he gets over it and he's sweet again. It's like living with Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. But maybe it's worth leaving Dr. Jekyll if it gets Mr. Hyde out of your life?


Yes, it is like Dr. Jekyll and Mr Hyde!! I remember thinking, from the beginning of our relationship, that my husband has 2 separate personalities. I read your thread about emotional abuse, and your situation seems so much like mine! Late 30's, no kids. The only difference is the loud, angry rages stopped when he went on SSRI's 10 years ago. Now they've turned into mean, petulant comments made in a normal speaking tone. If I heard a man speaking to his wife the way my husband spoke to me, I'd be wondering why she would put up with it. It's crazy that WE do.


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## Chaotic (Jul 6, 2013)

toomuchtotell said:


> If I heard a man speaking to his wife the way my husband spoke to me, I'd be wondering why she would put up with it. It's crazy that WE do.


Exactly!! We've been desensitized to it. A close friend of mine stayed at my house for a weekend back in May, and the second day she pulled me aside and was like, "do you LIVE like this? is he always LIKE this?". She thought he was horrible. And here I'd been thinking he was just being a little crabby, not nearly as bad as he can get. It was embarrassing, though a nice affirmation at the same time, I guess.

I guess I have no great advice for you, just wanted to say that I know where you're coming from. Are you in any kind of therapy or counseling? I'd never thought of myself as a person who would go to therapy but it's been really helpful to talk through things with an unbiased person. I recommend it.


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## toomuchtotell (May 13, 2013)

Chaotic said:


> Exactly!! We've been desensitized to it. A close friend of mine stayed at my house for a weekend back in May, and the second day she pulled me aside and was like, "do you LIVE like this? is he always LIKE this?". She thought he was horrible. And here I'd been thinking he was just being a little crabby, not nearly as bad as he can get. It was embarrassing, though a nice affirmation at the same time, I guess.


Yes it is a nice affirmation. Last year I took H to a company trip, and he was ranting about something I did he didn't like in front of all my coworkers. I wanted to tell him to stop but I didn't want to make an even more embarrassing scene. My coworkers later told me how they felt sorry for me and when I realized that no one else's husband was acting like that the whole trip, I realized that it wasn't how normal husbands treat their wives. 



> I guess I have no great advice for you, just wanted to say that I know where you're coming from. Are you in any kind of therapy or counseling? I'd never thought of myself as a person who would go to therapy but it's been really helpful to talk through things with an unbiased person. I recommend it.


yes I am in therapy and it's been really helpful. Right now I am trying to get the courage to ask for a divorce but I am so scared of what his reaction will be. I know he will cry and plead and I'll feel sorry for him.


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## Kaci (Mar 11, 2013)

toomuchtotell said:


> Because we get along just fine 99% of the time. That's what makes it hard to leave.



Don't you ever get lonely for a real relationship?


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## toomuchtotell (May 13, 2013)

Kaci said:


> Don't you ever get lonely for a real relationship?


My IC asked me the same exact thing.

I had a talk with H last night. He is blaming me for the lack of a relationship because I don't initiate sex or affection anymore. He doesn't understand that I don't want to have sex with someone who insults me, and he sees nothing wrong with the things he says. We also talked about how I wanted kids but I didn't think it would be a good idea given his behavior. He says that fatherhood would change him, giving examples of men we know that have changed dramatically after having kids, and then on the other hand says he hasn't decided whether he even wants kids  He also said that if I were to leave him, any man who is interested in having kids is looking for a woman in her 20's or early 30's, not someone approaching 40. Now mind you, I look 10 years younger than I am, but that doesn't change biology.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Words fail me. Is he being deliberately obtuse or is he really this clueless when it comes to how to treat you? 

Trying to save face by saying he doesn't know if he even wants kids and if you leave, no other man will want you. Manipulative and demeaning isn't he. This time, tell him to grow the [email protected]#$ up.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

toomuchtotell said:


> My IC asked me the same exact thing.
> 
> I had a talk with H last night. He is blaming me for the lack of a relationship because I don't initiate sex or affection anymore. He doesn't understand that I don't want to have sex with someone who insults me, and *he sees nothing wrong with the things he says*. We also talked about how I wanted kids but I didn't think it would be a good idea given his behavior. * He says that fatherhood would change him*, giving examples of men we know that have changed dramatically after having kids, and *then on the other hand says he hasn't decided whether he even wants kids*  He also *said that if I were to leave him, any man who is interested in having kids is looking for a woman in her 20's or early 30's, not someone approaching 40.* Now mind you, I look 10 years younger than I am, but that doesn't change biology.


He likes talking out of his ass. And his seeing nothing wrong with how he talks to you says it all. It's not only bad that he does it, but to do it when you KNOW it's hurting the other person is just plain cruel. He doesn't care that you hurt. He doesn't care he causes you pain.

Leaving him won't be about meeting someone else and having kids etc., if that happens then great!! it's a bonus. Leaving him will be about self preservation. Protecting yourself from a mean spirited jerk isn't a bad thing at all.


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## toomuchtotell (May 13, 2013)

I don't understand why HE doesn't understand that what he says is hurtful. Last weekend at a bar, there was a guy, who was probably drunk, talking to another guy and saying he felt like getting into a fight. The other guy joked that my husband, being small in stature compared to them, could be a good target. My husband didn't know these guys, and was so furious he later told me how angry and hurt he was at the comment and all he could think of was how he wanted to slam their heads against the wall and beat the sh!t out of them. I asked him why he thought what they said was hurtful and how him telling me I have severe mental problems and should be drooling on myself was not. He had no answer to the question. Maybe he really is clueless?!


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

toomuchtotell said:


> I don't understand why HE doesn't understand that what he says is hurtful. Last weekend at a bar, there was a guy, who was probably drunk, talking to another guy and saying he felt like getting into a fight. The other guy joked that my husband, being small in stature compared to them, could be a good target. My husband didn't know these guys, and was so furious he later told me how angry and hurt he was at the comment and all he could think of was how he wanted to slam their heads against the wall and beat the sh!t out of them. I asked him why he thought what they said was hurtful and how him telling me I have severe mental problems and should be drooling on myself was not. He had no answer to the question. Maybe he really is clueless?!


Don't make any excuses for him... that's what you're doing. If he has the presence of mind to hold his tongue as he did when it came to those guys, he can do it with you too. They got more respect than you and that's not right.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

toomuchtotell said:


> I don't understand why HE doesn't understand that what he says is hurtful.


It usually drives us somewhat crazy when we try to get into someone else's head. He may very well know what he says to you is hurtful, but he may not care. Why? Because it serves his purposes; namely, what he wants. Narcissistic? Perhaps. It sounds like he really enjoys hanging out in bars and getting trashed too. Do you ever notice his personality morphs when he gets drunk?

Something just tells me that your husband is not entirely clueless. I can only speculate that he has an issue with alcohol. He certainly exhibits some of the erratic, selfish, manipulative behaviors of an alcoholic.


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## toomuchtotell (May 13, 2013)

Prodigal said:


> It usually drives us somewhat crazy when we try to get into someone else's head. He may very well know what he says to you is hurtful, but he may not care. Why? Because it serves his purposes; namely, what he wants. Narcissistic? Perhaps. It sounds like he really enjoys hanging out in bars and getting trashed too. Do you ever notice his personality morphs when he gets drunk?
> 
> Something just tells me that your husband is not entirely clueless. I can only speculate that he has an issue with alcohol. He certainly exhibits some of the erratic, selfish, manipulative behaviors of an alcoholic.


He definitely has issues with alcohol, but he only drinks when we go away for a weekend or on vacation or holidays. He loves hanging out at a bar/club/party for HOURS and will consume drink after drink after drink and morph into this totally selfish, pushy, obnoxious persona that I cannot stand, until he passes out. Since the drinking is only occassional I can't say it is related to his everyday behavior although I don't know a lot about alcoholism.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

toomuchtotell said:


> He loves hanging out at a bar/club/party for HOURS and will consume drink after drink after drink and morph into this totally selfish, pushy, obnoxious persona that I cannot stand, until he passes out.


Unfortunately, I know more about alcoholism than I ever cared to know. Your husband may just be a binge drinker. But you gotta admit, drinking until you pass out is not what the average drinker does.

Sure, I did it a few times during my college years. But I get wicked hangovers. My body doesn't like more than two drinks or two glasses of wine. Negative effects ensue.

Regardless of whether or not he's an alkie, the fact is he approaches drinking in an unhealthy manner. And he wrecks your vacation. I mean, what type of vacation is it where one partner gets stinkin' drunk? 

Maybe you should consider no more vacations with him. They sound like torture rather than fun. JMO.


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## toomuchtotell (May 13, 2013)

Prodigal said:


> Unfortunately, I know more about alcoholism than I ever cared to know. Your husband may just be a binge drinker. But you gotta admit, drinking until you pass out is not what the average drinker does.
> 
> Sure, I did it a few times during my college years. But I get wicked hangovers. My body doesn't like more than two drinks or two glasses of wine. Negative effects ensue.
> 
> ...


Yeah, he's ruined several vacations because of his drinking...getting so wasted we'd have to leave a bar because he was on the verge of blacking out. One night in Vegas he passed out sprawled across the bed in the hotel room and I had to sleep on the couch because there was no room for me on the bed. We had to get up early that mornign to drive to Utah for our next leg of our vacation and had to pull over several times because he thought he was going to be sick, and he complained the entire 4 hour drive about his hangover. Passing out drunk on the hard bathroom floor is another way he ends a night of drinking. He's actually gotten better with the drinking and now limits himself to some degree, believe it or not, but it's still always a potential problem.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

toomuchtotell said:


> ... we went away and stayed in a bed and breakfast over the weekend for our anniversary. ... he wanted to spend almost every moment of the trip at parties and bars drinking, wanted to stay out till all hours of the night ... I guess I just need to take it or leave it at this point.


And your last post says he is more in control now than he used to be. This is how he behaved last weekend. And this is what you consider more in "control"? Seriously?

However, you are right; take it or leave it. He's not going to change. It's up to you to change if you want to have a better situation. Frankly, I can't even stand to go into bars after being married to two alcoholics. I have less than no desire to hang around obnoxious drunks.

And, regardless of how nice he may be when he is sober, on vacations he is an obnoxious drunk. So, continue in denial and minimize his crappy behavior.

Because, if you do, you are going to be stuck in more situations with a nasty, mean-spirited drunk.


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## Thumper (Mar 23, 2013)

ok, I need to be devils advocate here for a minute. Theres a lot of HE HE HE did this in your story, but you admit that you have some issues as well. 

One thing we never see, or decide not to see is our own part of the mistakes/faults in our marriages. Your husband is obviously at a tipping point, he's ready to walk away or break down, your deciding if that whats best for you too. Who's actually working on the problems here??

Your both in a cycle of retribution, something is gonna have to change, with BOTH of you if you want to make this work.

Your ADHD, you know this about yourself, do you make yourself lists as to no forget things, so you don't have to return time and time again for things you forgot? Do you think things would have been better had you not had to return for things you forgot?
Could he have handled the sitch better? are there things you wished he'd stop doing or do better?

Now don't get me wrong, he's just as guilty for his HALF of the problems. But its not like his OCD just started last week, and your ADHD started yesterday. I think you both need address issues within yourselfs if you expect your spouse to make changes too.
You both need to work together to solve this?

Have you ever asked your husband for help getting things together before you have to leave? If you feel comfortable that you've done everything right, then by all means, blame your husband and walk away if you want. I really don't know your sitch other than the small paragraph above, I've just never seen a marriage in trouble because it was only one person's fault. Its taken some time to get you to where your both now at.

Are you both on meds? have you tried independent and/or marriage counseling? As you stated, you had a sit down previously, he responded by trying to schedule a nice weekend for you both, it didn't work out, but he tried. Its too much for you both to handle by yourselves at this point, but the effort is there, your just gonna need some help. He's frustrated, but trying, your frustrated and trying, is it worth throwing away at this point?

I hope you don't take this as a I'm blaming you, or this is your fault, its clearly not. I'm just asking questions to get the bigger picture. Hopefully, you can both sit down and discuss what the bigger issues are, cause you have to start somewhere.


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## toomuchtotell (May 13, 2013)

Prodigal said:


> And your last post says he is more in control now than he used to be. This is how he behaved last weekend. And this is what you consider more in "control"? Seriously?
> 
> However, you are right; take it or leave it. He's not going to change. It's up to you to change if you want to have a better situation. Frankly, I can't even stand to go into bars after being married to two alcoholics. I have less than no desire to hang around obnoxious drunks.
> 
> ...


I considered him more in control because he didn't drink to the point of passing out and totally losing control like he often does. But yeah, you are definitely right in that it's not going to go away.


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## toomuchtotell (May 13, 2013)

Thumper said:


> ok, I need to be devils advocate here for a minute. Theres a lot of HE HE HE did this in your story, but you admit that you have some issues as well.
> 
> One thing we never see, or decide not to see is our own part of the mistakes/faults in our marriages. Your husband is obviously at a tipping point, he's ready to walk away or break down, your deciding if that whats best for you too. Who's actually working on the problems here??
> 
> ...


Thanks for this insight, I have also thought about my faults and the role they play in our marriage. I have been in IC for about a year and my husband will not go. I think he would go to MC if I truly insisted on it.

My husband is not ready to walk away and is actualy perfectly content in our relationship. When I even mention I'm unhappy and bring up divorce he gets very upset and even clingy with me. He would willingly continue for the rest of our lives in this marriage with few complaints, which tells me most of his needs are being met. He's trying to improve only because he doesn't want to lose me. My adhd makes him very angy at times, for sure, but whatever else he is gettign out of our marriage seems to greatly outweigh my adhd. So I think to myself, What is in this marriage for me? I have dreams on a nightly basis about romantic encounters with other men, so something major is definitely missing for me.



> I was thinking about this question Do you think things would have been better had you not had to return for things you forgot?


I would not have been insulted at that moment, that's for sure. Yesterday, we were trying to park in a crowded parking lot at a store, and anyone that was making the parking experience less than ideal for my husband was a "f*&%ing retard", or deserved some other insult or profanity. He's always calling one our dogs an idiot and a retard. So even if it's not directed at me, it still affects me emotionally. Sure, we can go to MC and maybe he would improve. At the same time, he is who he is, right? How much can he really change?


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

You have my sympathy, toomuchtotell!

The anger and arrogance sounds amazingly like my STBXH, whom I left after 19years of marriage. BEST decision I ever made! Wish I'd have left after 10years!

I wake up happy, I have energy, peace, contentment, hope for the future, self-respect, and fun in my life on a DAILY basis! I haven't met another guy, and that's okay. I'm working on myself and I'm happy living my life on MY terms; something I could never do with STBXH.

You have NO children. I'd recommend you quit wasting MORE of your life with this man who is a bad fit for your personality. You wanted it to work, you tried, it didn't, learn the lesson and move on. He's a binge drinker who is self-centered and manipulative - not gonna be losing a lot there.

How about living alone? How about self-love and self-respect? How about contentment and simple joy? Doesn't *that* sound like a better alternative?

I would recommend you read "Co-dependent No More". Read it SERIOUSLY (no skimming), write down the answers to the questions at the end of EVERY chapter. You will learn so much about yourself! And, you'll be in a better position to make life choices that are best for YOU. (Go run out to a bookstore TODAY and buy it!)


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## toomuchtotell (May 13, 2013)

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> You have my sympathy, toomuchtotell!
> 
> The anger and arrogance sounds amazingly like my STBXH, whom I left after 19years of marriage. BEST decision I ever made! Wish I'd have left after 10years!
> 
> ...


That's great you are in a much happier place! Was your STBXH angry most of the time or was it only intermittent?

I will definitely read that book, my IC suggested it too


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

EVERYBODY was an idiot, a moron, a jerk, a (insert racial, ethnic, gender slur)....

If he had to make an exit on the expressway (knowing the exit was coming up in 1-1.5 miles), would he move into the right-hand lane? Of course not! He'd try to cut over at the last moment and if someone wouldn't (or couldn't) let him in, then THAT PERSON was an a-hole. 

He wasn't ALWAYS angry, but often enough and aggressive enough and demeaning about other people enough to make being out with him in public an 'edgy' experience...always wondering WHAT he would say and to whom and where. Sucked the fun out of most EVERY outing.


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## toomuchtotell (May 13, 2013)

I brought up divorce a few times and H went in to panic mode. He told me he loves me and wants to be with me, and helped me with food shopping and other errands which he doesn't normally do, and showed more affection than usual.

Then...

Last night he wanted me to cook him his favorite meal, which I did. While cooking he sat on the couch playing a video game, ate dinner, played his game some more, did not help clean up and went to bed. This morning he wakes up and is mad because I left vegetable scraps on the kitchen counter. He said "look at this mess, why didn't you clean? you should be cleaning while you're cooking. I dont' know ANYONE, who does not clean while they cook. NO ONE" Ok, yes I should clean up while cooking, but it's like, he was trying to justify belittling me by making the rest of the world side with him. This doesn't seem like love to me!


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Sad he didn't appreciate the meal you made and instead criticized and got angry about how you cleaned the kitchen.

I wouldn't be doing anything that wasn't appreciated. That gives him an excuse to flip on you.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

toomuchtotell said:


> I brought up divorce a few times and H went in to panic mode. He told me he loves me and wants to be with me, and helped me with food shopping and other errands which he doesn't normally do, and showed more affection than usual.


It's called manipulation. He tosses you a bone and gives you just enough to keep you in the loop.



toomuchtotell said:


> I dont' know ANYONE, who does not clean while they cook. NO ONE" Ok, yes I should clean up while cooking, but it's like, he was trying to justify belittling me by making the rest of the world side with him. This doesn't seem like love to me!


It doesn't seem like love to you because it is not love. It's a man who abuses you. He's mean much of the time, he's a binge drinker, he's basically a horse's a$$. But you know that.

The question you should be asking yourself is why you are willing to settle for so little. Because if you say you are going to leave, he'll pump up the charm ... for a little while. But he's going to revert to who he is. That isn't going to change.

The ball is in your court. Either live with it or start getting your ducks in a row to leave.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

I know what... I'm not telling my husband I want a divorce and then go fix his favorite meal. That's just nuts.


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## toomuchtotell (May 13, 2013)

Prodigal said:


> It's called manipulation. He tosses you a bone and gives you just enough to keep you in the loop.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, I think instead of talking about divorce I am going to meet with a lawyer and see what my options are. I am settling with it because this is what I knew growing up. My mother would errupt into violent rages when she was angry with me. My father wouldn't do anything for me that involved going out of his way and sacrificing his needs. My mother at least apologized when she hurt me, which my husband doesn't do.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

toomuchtotell said:


> Yes, I think instead of talking about divorce I am going to meet with a lawyer and see what my options are. I am settling with it because this is what I knew growing up. My mother would errupt into violent rages when she was angry with me. My father wouldn't do anything for me that involved going out of his way and sacrificing his needs. My mother at least apologized when she hurt me, which my husband doesn't do.


Your husband isn't obligated to apologize because his love for you is conditional. Most parent/child relationships are UNconditional. Parents are charged to protect and love their children no matter what... there are those exceptions out there of course, but generally this is the parent/child relationship. Love no matter what. 

A husband and wife do not share that type of relationship. They aren't charged to love no matter what, because people have deal breakers and boundaries. When a person will allow their spouse to disrespect those deal breakers and boundaries, you end up with an imbalance like yours.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

toomuchtotell said:


> I am settling with it because this is what I knew growing up.


The thing is, you are not growing up any longer. You are not living with your parents. Granted, what we become is a result of our family-of-origin.

But when we keep using it as an excuse to keep us stuck in bad relationships, we have to dig deeper and find out what old tapes are playing in our heads that make us perpetuate these types of nonproductive relationships.

Believe me, I grew up in a home that was more like a lunatic asylum than a real home with a decent family. 

But that doesn't expunge my responsibility for the bad choices I made. And I had to reach a point where I stopped blaming my parents for MY bad choices.

Sorry if I'm coming down hard on you, but you are playing the victim card. You are staying with this jerk. You are expunging your responsibility for remaining in victim-mode by blaming your parents.

And I completely agree with A Bit Much. Cooking this boob his favorite meal? Then he craps on you afterwards? Time to pull the plug on this type of nonsense. You deserve a helluva lot better than this. Seriously.


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## toomuchtotell (May 13, 2013)

It's ok if you're coming down hard on me, Prodigal, what I need to hear is the cold hard truth. In addition to blaming my parents, I am also blaming myself because I feel it is my fault that I did not properly set boundaries in the beginning and let this perpetuate for 16years. And because it only happens on occassion I let it slide. He's made it clear he doesn't want a divorce and I feel like I'm the one who is mean and callous by wanting it.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

toomuchtotell said:


> It's ok if you're coming down hard on me, Prodigal, what I need to hear is the cold hard truth. In addition to blaming my parents, I am also blaming myself because I feel it is my fault that I did not properly set boundaries in the beginning and let this perpetuate for 16years. And because it only happens on occassion I let it slide. He's made it clear he doesn't want a divorce and I feel like I'm the one who is mean and callous by wanting it.


Well of course he doesn't want a divorce. He's not unhappy with things the way they are. Being unhappy and hurt is not a way to live. You're not mean nor callous for expecting to be treated with respect and love. He on the other hand is the mean and callous one for inflicting pain on you. That's not love. He's not loving you.

Whether you set the boundaries in the beginning or not is water under the bridge now. Today you have decided you have had enough. This is not how you want to live going forward.


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## FlyingThePhoenix (Apr 11, 2013)

toomuchtotell said:


> It's ok if you're coming down hard on me, Prodigal, what I need to hear is the cold hard truth. In addition to blaming my parents, I am also blaming myself because I feel it is my fault that I did not properly set boundaries in the beginning and let this perpetuate for 16years. *And because it only happens on occassion I let it slide*. He's made it clear he doesn't want a divorce and *I feel like I'm the one who is mean and callous by wanting it.*


Hello Too Much...._(Cruel to be kind)_....

You’re in a static one-sided marriage where your marriage is more like a relationship where you have accepted it from day one. People are NOT static nor are relationships, and yours is one because your husband is a 41+ year old big child with no manners and refuses to grow older; his obsessions with playing computer games into the “we” hours of morning and collecting gadgets that he never needs or uses, is in my book strange for a man of this age. Your husband has found his place in life with a woman he claims to be in love with but belittles you at every opportunity when he feels like it, I call you a verbal punching bag. Let’s be honest here, you've given him the green light for his behaviour in your relationship/marriage by not setting your own boundaries of what is acceptable to you and not. You have to take ownership for your inactions here and you've accepted it thus far. You need to connect your "Inner voice" to you mouth and tell your husband exactly how you feel and not just about his bad behaviour but that you want a baby and family. You’re not far from the 40 something club _(Life begins at 40 you know )_, and now it’s your moment to change and allow yourself to find yourself in life. 

Question is, do *YOU* have the guts to get it?

_You confuse me Too Much...? _


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