# Reaching the Technical Absolute - Coping Mechanisms



## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

In manufacturing you will inevitably find yourself on a project (or many!) where you need to decrease costs, improve productivity, etc. When you review the project scope to define what your project will entail, you need to develop key process indicators and ultimately the overarching goal (increase x% in 6 months, for example). When setting your goal for your project, you need to determine what the technical absolute that you can reach will be (everything is finite).

If you equate this with intimacy, many of us want to have more. However, we may not always think about there being a technical absolute that your partner - for whatever reason - cannot move beyond. I think I am very close to the technical absolute with my wife when it comes to sex. If I could, I would want more. However, I realize that what I want vs what reality is will not converge. 

My ultimate questions are this: Have you discovered (or thought of) what your spouses technical absolute is when it comes to sex? Is it less than what you would like? How did you learn to become content? Alternatively, what steps are you taking to accept your situation to become content?

By objective measures, my wife and I have a healthy sex life. We both think we have a good sex life where we both get pleasure as well as feel a marital connection thru sex. I love my wife, and if I can I don't want to make her feel hurt by trying to push the envelope for more. I'm a good husband, but I know that I can get too pushy at times trying to get what I want. I want to be content.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> My ultimate questions are this: Have you discovered (or thought of) what your spouses technical absolute is when it comes to sex? Is it less than what you would like? How did you learn to become content? Alternatively, what steps are you taking to accept your situation to become content?


Not in these words, although in this spirit. She knows that I want more than what we are doing. On some levels she wants more as well, even though she does not need it. What she does need is for me to recognize that she is trying, accept that there will be times she can't or won't give more and work with her to improve all aspects of the marriage. 

I am content that she puts effort into keeping and increasing our intimacy level. She understands its importance and tries. She reaches for me when we have not connected in a while. She asks for me to lead in this area and trusts me enough that she follows. And she thanks me for loving her enough to make the effort. 

So I am very content.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Thanks TAG. Very well stated. I'm hoping to get more to that point. I'm usually content but sometimes I get antsy and try to push for more. Normally, it doesn't go well when I get like this. Logically, I know better. Emotionally, I haven't learned the lesson yet.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> In manufacturing you will inevitably find yourself on a project (or many!) where you need to decrease costs, improve productivity, etc. When you review the project scope to define what your project will entail, you need to develop key process indicators and ultimately the overarching goal (increase x% in 6 months, for example). When setting your goal for your project, you need to determine what the technical absolute that you can reach will be (everything is finite).
> 
> If you equate this with intimacy, many of us want to have more. However, we may not always think about there being a technical absolute that your partner - for whatever reason - cannot move beyond. I think I am very close to the technical absolute with my wife when it comes to sex. If I could, I would want more. However, I realize that what I want vs what reality is will not converge.
> 
> ...


LOL..and its NOT female long term marriage libido is it? gender plays NO ROLE you say.

"*If I could, I would want more*. However, I realize that what I want vs what reality is will not converge. "

Hypocritical much?

Pushy means meeting your seeking desperately to meet YOUR libido need...never happens the way YOU want so you met your wife's female libido that she construed as the minimum to keep you satisfied..congrats. Join the club of just about every husband.

Its messed up when you think of it...and that brought you here seeking answers.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Are you talking JUST about sex or sex coupled with intimacy?

I thought I had reached the finite point back in the fall. I thought I had hit the wall where no more change was possible and it was delusional to hope for more. Since the reality of what we had, at that time, was NOT something I could grow content with, I decided we needed to divorce rather then spend the rest of my life in simmering discontent.

But then he decided to move the wall. I think he has mostly removed the wall as opposed to moving it.

IMO it boils down to what you absolutely need to be content with your spouse and what you want to be happy with your life. 

Once those levels are identified and you assess the relative likelihood that "finite equals contentment and relative happiness" within your own situation, you will have a better idea of where you are pushing and where you are leading.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Thanks TAG. Very well stated. I'm hoping to get more to that point. I'm usually content but sometimes I get antsy and try to push for more. Normally, it doesn't go well when I get like this. Logically, I know better. Emotionally, I haven't learned the lesson yet.


Of course you are going to get antsy. Lord knows I do at times. We have times where we don't connect because of travel, sickness, and three kids. Next thing I know it has been seven days and I am grumpy and irritable. My mind goes back to when things were not that good and I start (unfairly) imputing a lot of motives to her.

But I stop, take a breath and then get down to the work the gets her ready. She welcomes it and tells me she missed it. The next time, she is the one that jumps me to get things started again.

You are human and you are going to act that way from time to time. So is your wife. The trick is not to beat yourself up (or your wife) for doing what humans do.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

My ex was, shall we say, "technically limited?"  So I know exactly what you are referring to. It can be very frustrating.

Having said that, my current long-term SO is extremely "technically proficient," very adventuresome, and very creative. Together, we just click _in that way_ (I realize there are many other important facets of marriage besides sex.)

I spent many years during my marriage trying to figure out how to fix it. We had reached our technical absolute which was not very satisfying for either of us. I came to the conclusion that much of it boils down to a spark, or "chemistry," which cannot be manufactured. That desire to keep exploring each other because there is so much "in there" to find.

Many here may disagree (here come the 2x4s!!) but I honestly believe that with every fiber of my being.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> LOL..and its NOT female long term marriage libido is it? gender plays NO ROLE you say.
> 
> "*If I could, I would want more*. However, I realize that what I want vs what reality is will not converge. "
> 
> ...


I agree that men are different than women and typically men tend to have higher libidos. But it stops there. IMHO, my wife has a normal libido. IMHO, I think the issue is me - not her. This is where your overly general view of things breaks down. I mean that with all due respect, because we are all seeking out answers.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

The Tall Man strikes again. 

This dynamic - is marriage. And what makes it beautiful is the effort and the kindness and commitment shown by both spouses. 

A good wife has a little counter in her head. Counts the days since last time. 




Tall Average Guy said:


> Of course you are going to get antsy. Lord knows I do at times. We have times where we don't connect because of travel, sickness, and three kids. Next thing I know it has been seven days and I am grumpy and irritable. My mind goes back to when things were not that good and I start (unfairly) imputing a lot of motives to her.
> 
> But I stop, take a breath and then get down to the work the gets her ready. She welcomes it and tells me she missed it. The next time, she is the one that jumps me to get things started again.
> 
> You are human and you are going to act that way from time to time. So is your wife. The trick is not to beat yourself up (or your wife) for doing what humans do.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> Are you talking JUST about sex or sex coupled with intimacy?
> 
> I thought I had reached the finite point back in the fall. I thought I had hit the wall where no more change was possible and it was delusional to hope for more. Since the reality of what we had, at that time, was NOT something I could grow content with, I decided we needed to divorce rather then spend the rest of my life in simmering discontent.
> 
> ...


I think the technical absolute is physical. Bottom line is if I try for more than every other day, she'll get too sore.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Of course you are going to get antsy. Lord knows I do at times. *We have times where we don't connect because of travel, sickness, and three kids. * Next thing I know it has been seven days and I am grumpy and irritable. My mind goes back to when things were not that good and I start (unfairly) imputing a lot of motives to her.
> 
> But I stop, take a breath and then get down to the work the gets her ready. She welcomes it and tells me she missed it. The next time, she is the one that jumps me to get things started again.
> 
> You are human and you are going to act that way from time to time. So is your wife. The trick is not to beat yourself up (or your wife) for doing what humans do.


Bingo. My wife has recently been thru a small string of issues this past few months. Sick, then an ear issue and then tendonitus in her jaw. Along with that I've had my share of business travel too. I gotta give her props, our sex life has been solid even with some of the maladies. That's why I think this is more of something I need to deal with.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

AP,
Ho ho ho. 

There's a section of the playbook that most folks refer to as Armageddon. That is the one section that only contains a few plays plays (though each has lots of variations). 

One of them is typically referred to as the: loving incompatibility play. 

It typically contains a mix of love, regret and determination. 

Used sparingly it is the ideal way to determine whether you have an utterly un-fixable compatibility issue or a somewhat lazy, selfish partner. 

------
When I refer to it as a play, that doesn't make it less than deadly serious. And it doesn't make the play caller manipulative. If you sincerely are willing to walk, this is the best play from the Armageddon section. 




Anon Pink said:


> Are you talking JUST about sex or sex coupled with intimacy?
> 
> I thought I had reached the finite point back in the fall. I thought I had hit the wall where no more change was possible and it was delusional to hope for more. Since the reality of what we had, at that time, was NOT something I could grow content with, I decided we needed to divorce rather then spend the rest of my life in simmering discontent.
> 
> ...


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Sometimes I would like more and get a bit antsy about it. I also realize that our frequency and quality surpasses that of most couples, even those much younger. Realistically, we couldn't easily increase things much unless we both retire, but the maximum then could be twice what it is now. Still, I have some triggers (any decrease in frequency sets off alarm bells, even if temporary) associated with my ex that I try to stay aware of and avoid acting upon.

Fortunately we can talk about these things and head off any problems, and TAG's advice about doing the work is highly applicable to me as well.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Plan,
The other night, lying in bed I told M2 that the last two years - have been our best (arm waved to refer to in the bedroom). She looked at me like I was mad. She was thinking (yeah - just great: zero PIV, libido almost totally absent, frequency at a fairly steady 2/week - at times it's down to once a week).

I just shrugged and said: When things go wrong, this is the place that goes cold and dark without kindness, commitment, and compassion. Has it felt cold and dark to you? 

She just shook her head. 




Plan 9 from OS said:


> Bingo. My wife has recently been thru a small string of issues this past few months. Sick, then an ear issue and then tendonitus in her jaw. Along with that I've had my share of business travel too. I gotta give her props, our sex life has been solid even with some of the maladies. That's why I think this is more of something I need to deal with.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

MEM11363 said:


> Plan,
> The other night, lying in bed I told M2 that the last two years - have been our best (arm waved to refer to in the bedroom). She looked at me like I was mad. She was thinking (yeah - just great: zero PIV, libido almost totally absent, frequency at a fairly steady 2/week - at times it's down to once a week).
> 
> I just shrugged and said: When things go wrong, this is the place that goes cold and dark without kindness, commitment, and compassion. Has it felt cold and dark to you?
> ...


Thanks for sharing that MEM. Sometimes it's not always the best for us either - kids interrupting, stress, etc - but I'd say we've generally been warm to each other thru out. Never do we have starfish sex or corpse sex. Sometimes rushed more than I'd like, but still engaged none the less.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Since I've never been in a relationship with someone who has as high of sexual needs as I do (not even with the sex god) I've concluded that I need to just get ok with the technical absolute I have (which is quite good) and then learn to dim down the rest of my sexual impulses...in order to just be good with myself. I discussed some of the ways I handle my excessive sex drive in this post:

I Married a Sex God: Feeding Your Frankenstein


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Plan,
That's important. 

Did you ever read the short story, The gift of the magi? 

It's by a guy named O'henry

It's 15 minutes of pure, unadulterated genius. 




Plan 9 from OS said:


> Thanks for sharing that MEM. Sometimes it's not always the best for us either - kids interrupting, stress, etc - but I'd say we've generally been warm to each other thru out. Never do we have starfish sex or corpse sex. Sometimes rushed more than I'd like, but still engaged none the less.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

MEM11363 said:


> Plan,
> That's important.
> 
> Did you ever read the short story, The gift of the magi?
> ...


I've read it. Awesome display of love between a married couple!


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I don't know, Gift of the Magi gets the big "ojo rollo" from me. I find it an illustration on the dangers of not communicating. 

I do believe there is a technical absolute. Some days I feel quite optimistic and like I haven't neared it at all. Other days I feel like I'm at the brick wall. I wonder if I can suffer it to whatever age couples stop having sex at or should I use my parachute while I can. 

I've been surprised at the turn my past year has taken, though. I thought I was at the technical absolute but that wasn't it at all. 

I feel that, when I reach it, it will still be less than my ideal. But if I feel like I can reach out and touch my ideal from that point it will be okay. 

There is a synergy, at times, it's the real thing. It surpasses the technical issues of sex, in my opinion. Those times are enough even if the technical troubles remain.

Editing to add - when I say technical absolute I'm not referring to the shortcomings of my partner, but rather how far we can go as a couple. Lord knows I have my own issues, I hardly think I'm the ideal woman to get in bed, it's not just him.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Scarlett,
For how long have you been very candid, very direct with your H about what you want? 

Don't get me wrong, I fault him for not asking more questions. For not trying harder to understand you. 

The thing is you won't know how good that's going to get until you've been in your honest/open routine for about a year. 





MissScarlett said:


> I don't know, Gift of the Magi gets the big "ojo rollo" from me. I find it an illustration on the dangers of not communicating.
> 
> I do believe there is a technical absolute. Some days I feel quite optimistic and like I haven't neared it at all. Other days I feel like I'm at the brick wall. I wonder if I can suffer it to whatever age couples stop having sex at or should I use my parachute while I can.
> 
> ...


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Well, it's been year of ups and downs. Like any journey, I suppose, you feel you have faced reality only to find there is door after door to open. I don't know that I have reached the point ally honest/open. 100% improvement a year ago but I find myself still holding my cards a bit too close. 

It's okay, though, today I'm optimistic we will get it all worked out.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Scarlett,
I find courage to be an extraordinary aphrodisiac. I believe that is common. I only hope that your H responds to your increasingly transparent self the way that I would: with admiration and an increased desire to bond with you. 



MissScarlett said:


> Well, it's been year of ups and downs. Like any journey, I suppose, you feel you have faced reality only to find there is door after door to open. I don't know that I have reached the point ally honest/open. 100% improvement a year ago but I find myself still holding my cards a bit too close.
> 
> It's okay, though, today I'm optimistic we will get it all worked out.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> Scarlett,
> I find courage to be an extraordinary aphrodisiac. I believe that is common. I only hope that your H responds to your increasingly transparent self the way that I would: with admiration and an increased desire to bond with you.


Agree. Forcing myself to be more open about my wants/desires...forcing honest communication HAS helped in my case. It's not a panacea, but even during the low points it makes me feel better about myself.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

We are at "technical absolute" in that we seem to be perfectly matched. Both VHD, huge chemistry and enjoy the same type of sex.

Along the way we have refined a few things, I wanted more dirty stuff and sexting, he likes a little bit more foreplay and romantic type of sex. But we switch it up enough that both of our needs and wants are being met. We are in sync with quantity, quality and variation.

Having been on the extreme opposite side with this and my ex being ND/LD it was vital to me to find a perfect match this time around. 

But I guess the question is at what point is it fine to just accept and say that near enough is good enough? If Mr H and I were say an 80% match in our sex lives I would be thrilled because compared to the 5% match of the past 80% would be fantastic. It is all relative.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Holland said:


> We are at "technical absolute" in that we seem to be perfectly matched. Both VHD, huge chemistry and enjoy the same type of sex.
> 
> Along the way we have refined a few things, I wanted more dirty stuff and sexting, he likes a little bit more foreplay and romantic type of sex. But we switch it up enough that both of our needs and wants are being met. We are in sync with quantity, quality and variation.
> 
> ...


You and a few other posters on SIM are at a level I'd LOVE to be at when it comes to intimacy. Realistically, it will never happen for me based on what I know now. It's not a big enough issue to get divorced over.


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## Married_in_michigan (Apr 9, 2014)

I love this thread....it speaks directly to the questions going through my head every day. I dont have it figured out in my case, but am asking myself the questions daily......


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Plan, I'm just going to throw this out there...... you have had a few threads where it is prefaced by "we have a good sex life etc..." It is almost like you are a bit afraid of saying "we really don't have the sex life I want". 

Is near enough good enough? Can you focus on the good that you do have, you clearly love your wife and have by many peoples standards a great sex life.

I would not have considered divorce had my ex been close to 50% of what I needed in a sexual partner. We had such a great life together and a wonderful little family unit. But I could not keep going with a 5% match, the disparity was too wide. I had already reduced my expectations so dramatically and he had not done anything to meet me part way so it was a no win.

You situation is much more stock standard. You have a great base, maybe find peace with what you do have and if opportunities present themselves move slowly towards getting to the place you would like to see your sex life be.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Holland said:


> Plan, I'm just going to throw this out there...... you have had a few threads where it is prefaced by "we have a good sex life etc..." It is almost like you are a bit afraid of saying "we really don't have the sex life I want".
> 
> Is near enough good enough? Can you focus on the good that you do have, you clearly love your wife and have by many peoples standards a great sex life.
> 
> ...


Precisely why I started this thread. I should be content. For the most part I am, but I wish we had more. That's why I'm not afraid to say this is my issue and not my wife's in any way. Is it normal to want more than you have? When it comes to money, I'd say yes. When it comes to sex, provided it occurs multiple times per week, it should be an end game. Yet I try to think of ways to squeeze more intimacy out of the marriage. I don't know why I keep seeking and not feeling more content with what we have. 

I would never divorce over what we have now. People would think that I'm stupid if I would. Right now, I feel content, but... I need to figure out how to eliminate the 'but', if you catch my drift.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Holland,
This type post is the gold standard for TAM. 




Holland said:


> Plan, I'm just going to throw this out there...... you have had a few threads where it is prefaced by "we have a good sex life etc..." It is almost like you are a bit afraid of saying "we really don't have the sex life I want".
> 
> Is near enough good enough? Can you focus on the good that you do have, you clearly love your wife and have by many peoples standards a great sex life.
> 
> ...


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Thank you Mem, that is very humbling. Your wise words helped me enormously at the start of my path to recovery. Thank You 

Plan, I wish you well. Don't let what you don't have ruin what you do.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Holland,
You and a few others like you symbolize the most important aspect of TAM, *hope*. Because folks who've been subjected to too many acid baths of rejection, often begin to believe that the fault lies within themselves. And that belief is utterly paralyzing. 

But seeing people here who surgically removed their acid bathers, cauterized the wound and happily moved on, that can be a positive catalyst. 




Holland said:


> Thank you Mem, that is very humbling. Your wise words helped me enormously at the start of my path to recovery. Thank You
> 
> Plan, I wish you well. Don't let what you don't have ruin what you do.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Anon Pink said:


> Are you talking JUST about sex or sex coupled with intimacy?
> 
> I thought I had reached the finite point back in the fall. I thought I had hit the wall where no more change was possible and it was delusional to hope for more. Since the reality of what we had, at that time, was NOT something I could grow content with, I decided we needed to divorce rather then spend the rest of my life in simmering discontent.
> 
> ...














Plan 9 from OS said:


> *I agree that men are different than women and typically men tend to have higher libidos. But it stops there. IMHO, my wife has a normal libido. IMHO, I think the issue is me - not her. This is where your overly general view of things breaks down. I mean that with all due respect, because we are all seeking out answers*.


 I have often wondered what it would be like if was a man.. stepping into the shoes of my H in the past..for example... when his sex drive was Higher, he was so patient & loving throughout all.. Honestly I think I would have been a monster in comparison.... I don't know how some of you guys do it ! ..I sympathize with the struggle.... SO your wife has not hit her Mid life Prime yet ?? It doesn't seem all women go through this.. 



Plan 9 from OS said:


> *I think the technical absolute is physical. Bottom line is if I try for more than every other day, she'll get too sore.*


 Have you looked into anything that could alleviate this soreness.. just throwing that out there... as it can be a typical problem after menopause & products are available.. Does she realize how MUCH it would mean to you..to give you some extra attention, body massage leading to a bj --maybe just once a week on one of those nights? 

None of us want to ask.. we just want our partners to KNOW....and care enough to go that extra mile.. 



> *Plan 9 from OS said*: * Is it normal to want more than you have?*


 I would think even the Best / most compatible of couples .... there is always SOMETHING that they would TURN UP... wished their partner would do MORE, or could overcome in this area...

The mental merry go round of ..."If my H would only do _______ we would have it ALL ... if my wife would only do ________ we would have it ALL"...

I've felt this way about my H too.. and when I say we have a tremendously good marriage, I mean it... it was never in the affectionate intimacy department though....I am basically spoiled here...which helps keep those scales tipped high...

Just that hang up of mine -wanting him to be more "aggressive" with me in bed....Reading on TAM would trigger me at times....this seems to come EASILY for most men.. but not MINE [email protected]#$.... 

I have went from ....taking this as a Lack of desire (blowing it up in my head)....I have caused fights with him..... I've read books, got very creative... started a spice Jar...he rarely looked at it... I caused a fight or 2 over that...gave that up... now we just read together once in a while... he wants to be all.. there are moments I hang on to -he's tried...I know he means well... it helps I have calmed my jets... and accepted him for who he is..and how he loves... 

There was a turning point for me - reading this book







When Your Sex Drives Don't Match: Discover Your Libido Types to Create a Mutually Satisfying Sex Life 









I had this write up about it -copying & pasting here .. will show the 10 in the next post...


> Our differences in Libido types and Lover styles...so often there is a disconnect/ misnderstanding of our deep desires/fantasies / what sex means to us...that needs worked through...
> 
> So typical in Marriage.. one partner may crave more bedroom time over another
> 
> ...


 I really think this could shed some light on how to resolve this... and find that acceptance.. possibly.. 

I found it , but I would still have these flare ups now & then...get antsy in what I wanted.. pretty typical behavior I would think. 





> *Holland said:* *But I guess the question is at what point is it fine to just accept and say that near enough is good enough? If Mr H and I were say an 80% match in our sex lives I would be thrilled because compared to the 5% match of the past 80% would be fantastic. It is all relative*.


When the Good FAR outweighs the Bad...we have to be realistic... in any area of our lives.. some things are NEEDS...and some things are WANTS.. my needs were being met 100%... I was struggling with "wants".. I knew that. 



Plan 9 from OS said:


> * I'm usually content but sometimes I get antsy and try to push for more. Normally, it doesn't go well when I get like this. Logically, I know better. Emotionally, I haven't learned the lesson yet*.


 Has she been understanding of your weaker moments, do you make it up to her... apologize, her understanding you are not perfect... you just want to be wrapped up in her more.. I would hope our spouses would see this as a beautiful thing.. but I know that's just not always the case.... 

I see you have another thread ...


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

> *There are 10 libido types*:
> 
> *1*. *Sensual*- What you value most is the "emotional connection" a sense of being life partners....your sensual feeling of sexual desire can persist for hours or days, but it is not necessarily urgent unless your partner shows she is in the mood. Pleasing your partner gives you considerable pleasure ~ seeing that  of contentment on her face in the afterglow ... ...greatest satisfaction comes from mutual pleasure - this does not depend on any particular technique or activity.
> 
> ...


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

SA, my other thread is not a personal issue so much as a curious thing that happened the other day that was not typical.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

An example of why I need to count my blessings more and to work on being a more glass half full guy. Wife and I had a great afternoon with great quality intimacy. I'm quite content and happy - now. Already, I have it in my head that we will not have sex tomorrow. Right now, I'm fine with it (afterglow?). Tomorrow, I'll probably be a little annoyed at it and may try to seduce her. As Holland advised, I don't want to ruin an already good thing. I think I'm going to try my hardest to not even think about sex tomorrow.


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