# When does the pain stop?



## Juicer (May 2, 2012)

I am closing in on my DDay anniversary. Almost an entire year has passed since that day. Hard to believe I am actually here sometimes. 

And I did get into counseling. Starting to go through all the old skeletons in my closet. And there were several of them. 
And I heard how all this counseling is to help me deal with the pain in my life. But if anything, it is making it worse. 

I have looked around me, and at other BS, and I am faring no better than some who had DDay's after me. Hell, I am doing worse than probably a good number of them! And I divorced! And my DDay was further back than theirs!
I triggered today. Twice. And I am feeling like sh1t. I divorced months ago, and I am still freaking triggering. 
Sometimes I think counseling is doing me more harm than good. Most nights when I have counseling, I usually just drink until I am able to fall asleep. Drink myself into bliss. 
And for those of you that know about my condition, my liver has healed back mostly to before my OD. Or, well mostly to what it once was. 

But why is this still happening? I divorced, yet I can't move on! I am still triggering, my emotions are still out of control! 
Hell, I felt better on DDay than I do now! At least then, I only felt anger and rage at what my XW did. 
Today, I feel 100x worse than a year ago! I am feeling anger and rage, but also betrayal, hurt, sadness, lost, pain in every form! And my emotions have been getting worse!
Why can't I get better?! Why can't the past just leave me alone!


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## nxs450 (Apr 17, 2012)

Yeah I rember when you came on here. I believe it was your Ex Wife that was here first then you. I am at almost 5 years now and still with my wife. Things had been pretty good for the last several years but still some bad days. Here lately worse then it has been in a long time. So to answer your question I don't think it ever stops completely. It goes away little by little with spikes in between. Thats what I am figuring out. Hang in there!


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

Sometimes it just takes awhile. It took me a solid two years after my ex cheated & I still had to go to my former house twice a week to pick up my two young sons. The best advice is to submerge yourself in to everything that you can handle, friends, family etc. It took me a year of counseling to break out of a depression. You'll get there, think positive thoughts & don't let any past thoughts try & creep back in. Hang in there, time heals all wounds.


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## Juicer (May 2, 2012)

Other way around. 
I was here first. Then she joined. 

And did it get worse before it got better? Did it get continually worse before it got better? Because it has only been getting worse for me. 
Right now, I would trade places with my DDay self. I wasn't in a frame of mind to do anything rationally, but I was in a frame of mind that made me either numb, or oblivious to the pain. What I would give for that right now.


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## freedom7 (Jul 13, 2012)

A year is way early. I took about 5 to start feeling decent. Still have a lot of anger.


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## Juicer (May 2, 2012)

So you just continued spiraling down, circling the drain, and then, one day, it magically got better? 

And did you divorce or reconcile? And 5 years from what? DDay? Divorce?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Juicer said:


> I am closing in on my DDay anniversary. Almost an entire year has passed since that day. Hard to believe I am actually here sometimes.
> 
> And I did get into counseling. Starting to go through all the old skeletons in my closet. And there were several of them.
> And I heard how all this counseling is to help me deal with the pain in my life. But if anything, it is making it worse.
> ...


It took me a several years. The triggers get fewer, the hurt gets reduced.

Counselling and therapy are good, but maybe you could try relaxation techniques? Just search on Youtube using: "relaxation hypnosis" and several will come up.


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## HarryDoyle (Jan 19, 2013)

Hard to compare since I'm still in R. I don't think a divorce just shuts off all the pain, in my case I thought it would make it worse so I gave R a shot and it seems to be working, for us at least. Our MC wasn't much into dredging up the past. We talked about it one session, that was it, just so he could get a background on what was going on. From then on we just worked on fixing our marriage (communication, etc.). Of course the wife and I still talk about the A and the past sometimes if I need too, but she's answered all my questions and I don't bring it up too much anymore. Of course it still hurts, and I think about it a lot, but it doesn't consume me anymore.


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## freedom7 (Jul 13, 2012)

Juicer said:


> So you just continued spiraling down, circling the drain, and then, one day, it magically got better?
> 
> And did you divorce or reconcile? And 5 years from what? DDay? Divorce?


Went down for a long while, but the financial hit factored into that, as well.
Then, about 3 years out, I was back on my feet financailly. This allowed me to start travelling and recreating like heck. 
Once I injected this type of fun and excitelent inot my life, new experiences, new material things I had given up or lost, I became happier.
Got the smoking hot new GF about a year ago , and that has helped a lot, too. I was not ready to date for a few years and just had fun.


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## Juicer (May 2, 2012)

LanieB said:


> I don't know your whole story, Juicer, but *I'm guessing that your WW wasn't one bit remorseful* (neither is my WH) - hence your divorce - and that didn't help heal you AT ALL. Obviously, you're depressed, and I don't blame you for that. The one person in your life who was supposed to love you the most, stabbed you in the back. She did the most dispicable thing imaginable, and then screwed up your life. Believe me, I completely understand this as I am dealing with it right now myself. We had no control over what someone else did to our marriage, our family, and our future.


Sadly, nothing further from the truth. 
She did anything and everything I asked. She bent over backwards trying to make it up to me, even when I was heading to divorce. And I flip flopped several times between divorce and reconciliation. Made it painful, and the decision all the harder to make. I can't count the number of times I changed from divorce to reconciliation or vice versa. 


> You have a right to be sad and depressed. Your d-day might have been a year ago, but you've also gone through a divorce on top of it. Are you on any medication at all? If counseling is causing you to drink, you either have the wrong counselor, or you need to stop going. It's kind of like me - I keep a journal. Everyone says you should write down your feelings and it will help you feel better, right? Well, in my case, I have to take a break from it - and certainly NEVER go back and read it, because it makes me re-live the awful experiences all over again! I hate it! I already lived through it once, and I don't want to experience it again.
> 
> Maybe you should change tactics. What are you discussing in your counseling sessions? Are you re-hashing the affair and the divorce over and over again? If so, maybe you should skip that and just focus on YOU. You need to get healthy. Do you have family and friends to help you?


No. We haven't even gotten to the affair. Been discussing things I never dealt with earlier in my life. 
My usual method of coping, was to forget, bottle it up, move on. 
Worked well, for a while. But the affair, everything, started making me relive my past. 
And old feelings started bubbling up. And my emotions from all those events started blending together into a storm. 



> I know I'm rambling here (I've had a little wine), but I KNOW there's gotta be a way for you to feel better. Do whatever you can to feel better. I've been on this site off and on all day today, and it has definitely helped my mood. This morning I couldn't smile at all and I couldn't stop crying. Now I feel a lot better - not great - but better.


I rarely feel better. 
Thinking back on the past year, the entire year, the main times I felt good, the main times without exception, were:
When I was juiced up and numb to this pain
Or when I was drinking, and was in my own bliss.


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## freedom7 (Jul 13, 2012)

Try to force yourself to do some travelling or just things you used to enjoy. Just like getting ripped, force yourself through the pain. Be kind to yourself, as well. Enjoy this freedom in the spurts when you can.
It gets easier.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Juicer, sorry to hear of your continued pain. My life really did start to get better after D, not worse. However, my XW was not remorseful at all, not in the least. There was no should we have R'd. 

Also, I didn't have significant unresolved issues to deal with outside of a cheating wife who was trading me in for a man with a bigger income, at least in her mind that is what was going to happen.

I have learned a few things. If your counselor is not working. Get a different one. If therapy is making it worse, you can always take a break.

Are you missing the XW? Is she still in your life?

I wish you God's speed in healing. Happiness does exist for you. Believe!
WD


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Juicer, I take it you stopped juicing due to that episode early on?

Perhaps the withdrawal of juice is manifest in your spiraling depression. Have you seen you family dr recently and discussed your depression?


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## Juicer (May 2, 2012)

freedom7 said:


> Try to force yourself to do some travelling or just things you used to enjoy. Just like getting ripped, force yourself through the pain. Be kind to yourself, as well. Enjoy this freedom in the spurts when you can.
> It gets easier.


Yea...you may have not read my last thread. 

Because of various...actions I took, and things I did, I am not allowed to leave my state. 
And don't ask me what I did. I found out I could face legal repercussions for discussing it, even on an anonymous forum. And I don't like tempting fate. Because it tends to turn around and bite me. 

And even for what I did, didn't help with my damn triggers after all. Temporary release, no long-term help.


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## Juicer (May 2, 2012)

walkonmars said:


> Juicer, I take it you stopped juicing due to that episode early on?
> 
> Perhaps the withdrawal of juice is manifest in your spiraling depression. Have you seen you family dr recently and discussed your depression?


No, I got tested for my liver enzymes, but nothing like depression. Because I feel like a god damn failure right now. 
Someone told me in my old thread, I had tough guy syndrome. Don't remember who. But they were right. 

And...not entirely. 
After my OD this time last year, and my continued cycle, I didn't stop. 

To divorce, I juiced. I wanted my anger, my rage, all of that back. And those drugs gave it to me. 
And the reason behind the divorce...I don't want to get into right now. 
But it felt like a brand new DDay. 
And I didn't want to face the emotions that went with it. But I remembered how those drugs gave me anger, and made me feel only anger. 
If I came up to you on DDay, and told you, I can give you a pill, that takes away all the pain you're feeling, the only thing you'll feel will be anger and hatred, would you take it?
Because I did. 

But that was 4 months ago. 
I have faced the depression that follows a usual cycle before. I've been juicing for over 10 years, so I know what to look for. 

I am 4 months out. 
It is no longer post-cycle depression. 
This is the real me, feeling this. 



workindad said:


> Juicer, sorry to hear of your continued pain. My life really did start to get better after D, not worse. However, my XW was not remorseful at all, not in the least. There was no should we have R'd.
> 
> Also, I didn't have significant unresolved issues to deal with outside of a cheating wife who was trading me in for a man with a bigger income, at least in her mind that is what was going to happen.
> 
> ...


I don't want to answer the second part. 

But...honestly, yea. Sometimes. 

Some nights, I want to strangle her for putting me through this. 
Other nights, I want to hold her in my arms and never let go. 
And everything in between. Some nights I regret divorcing her. 
Other nights, I regret not divorcing her this time last year. 
I just want a clear answer. I just want it to stop.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Juicer, unfortunately, I don't have a clear answer. I can only tell you what I'd likely do in your shoes. If I was suffering, I would try something different. The most likely place I'd start based on the very limited information I see here, is a new therapist or no therapist for a while. You can always go back to therapy.

I wish I had something better to offer. I can say from my experience that life has gotten to be much better. If it can happen for me. It can happen for you. Believe it!!

All the best
WD


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## B1 (Jun 14, 2012)

Could it be juicer, that you spent a better part of your time hiding from the pain, that you never really dealt with it. You overpowered it with anger, rage or drowned it in drinking. Counseling may seem rough because your being forced to confront the worse pain you have ever known. You can't hide from it in counseling.


Or maybe it's like others have said here, it's just going to take more time. I just hate to say that or think it, but maybe it's as simple as that. 

I am sorry your in such pain a year later, wish there was more I could offer but being only 10 months out myself I don't have much more.

I know I pretty much tackled this monster head on, I cried a lot, still cry sometimes and I think it's letting it out. No it's not manly, alpha, some may say its weak, ok...but I do it and it helps me. I cried just yesterday, it was brief but I am not holding this crap in, not doing it.

I don't have the rage others talk about, nor do I have this anger it's just pure raw hurt for me. A hurt that goes deep into my soul. I choose to cry it out that's how I deal with it....and talk it out with EI too. Again, I know it's not manly but frankly I don't care it's working for me, at least I think it is.


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## nxs450 (Apr 17, 2012)

Juicer said:


> Other way around.
> I was here first. Then she joined.
> 
> And did it get worse before it got better? Did it get continually worse before it got better? Because it has only been getting worse for me.
> Right now, I would trade places with my DDay self. I wasn't in a frame of mind to do anything rationally, but I was in a frame of mind that made me either numb, or oblivious to the pain. What I would give for that right now.


Thats right I remember. It did get worse for me as well. I really wanted to save the marriage at first and was focused on that. Then later the pain, resentment, triggers, etc, etc, set in. Then it slowly started getting better. I had make my self stop thinking about things before I did something stupid.


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## Juicer (May 2, 2012)

So, been drinking also. Drank a lot. Trying to numb away this pain. 

And doing some introspection, to the best degree I can with a however much scotch I have in me, like a third of the bottle? Don't remember how much there was in it when I started. 

So having fun. 
Anyway, I think the hurt is coming out. 
I don't know. 

My rage is there. My hurt though, B1, you are right, is there. I can see them both. 
And I still love my god damn wife. The one that cheated and carved my heart out. Maybe we can include my liver in that. :rofl:

But the pain, the anger, you are right B1. I can see both of them. 
But you know what else I wonder?
In counseling today, we talked about my parents. Around my teenage years. Hell, that is when I started juicing. At 17, to show my dad I could be a man, and not a fvkcing failure. I had to get an older friend to buy the stuff for me. 
I can remember the pain I felt, not being able to get their love or respect. What could I get? 
But I wonder if maybe that pain was compounded. or combined with the feelings I would've normally felt from DDay. 
Maybe I am feeling the pain now that I should've felt then. 

I just wish I could get this over with though. 

Sometimes, it feels like, half my body is frozen in a glacier, while the other half is on fire. I'm feeling the pain from every side, but I just want it to be over. I just want it to overtake me, and free me sometimes. 

Sometimes I miss my wife. 
Miss her right now. 
Miss her cooking. She made some damn good tortellini. My favorite pasta. 

Its raining outside. Should go dancing. 

You know, examining my emotions, in this extremely stable state of mine, I still love her. 
Why does the heart have to be so damn stubborn? I am not even that stubborn! Usually.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

Juicer,

I am truly sorry you have gone through this pain. I am sorry you are here.

My DDay was about a year and a half ago, right before my 15 year anniversary and Christmas, New Years, My birthday, youngest's bday etc... Not a good time.

I counseled, but I have to say that I stopped because I didn't find a counselor who understood the issue, only ones who could talk about the theory of what I was going through. They might have learned stuff in books but in application, not good...

I went through this with one of my prayer brothers. He kept me honest and we made sure that the actions that we took, right or wrong, we could look back and honestly tell our children that we did the best that we could and tried our hardest to work with what we had. We actually got divorced from our respective WS 1 day apart.

I wholeheartedly believe that in order for you to move on. You have to forgive your EX. You really have to forgive her. I am not saying forget what she did and you should hold her accountable for her actions, but you need to forgive her so that you can heal.

If you sit there and just reminisce about the pain... You will make yourself miserable. Her actions are done... She didn't cause you the pain you have now, you are doing that to yourself.

You are pining for a woman who treated you with an absolute lack of respect. Men need respect and you missing someone like that goes against the very fiber of what you need. Forgive her for her past sins because you love(d) her. Realize she is human and realize that you are hanging onto the good parts and not the total picture. Men can put up with a lot but they cannot be men and put up with the lack of respect.

Today is Tuesday. I get angry every Tuesday because I have to hand my kids back to her on Tuesdays. I didn't have a choice in custody etc... joint 50/50. I took my 2 older ones to get ice cream while my EX took my youngest to baseball practice. I knew that they would have to go soon and I did get an ice cream for my little one. On the way home, my kids just started talking about their mom and how wrong she has acted in everything.

They talked about how they didn't have a choice in anything, how mom just broke up the family, told the kids it was ok because 1/3 of families get divorced. My kids realized how wrong this all had been and I knew they hated the situation too but I realized they were becoming little men who were getting good morals from my examples and others.

I trigger a bit. I do lots of therapy. I hit the gym 4-5 times a week. I try to post on TAM a few days a week. I share my stories with my friends, but what I have done to help is to write down what I want to do with my life and who I want to be.

I read a book about a man who thru-hiked the Appalachian trail after his wife died of cancer. I started hiking the AT with my boys. We just did a 45 mile hike though MD. It helps me and the boys heal. We bond, we see the beauty of the world. We open ourselves to the possibilities of what we can be and we live in the world, we just aren't alive.

Sometimes life is hard. I do have anger! I can't see my kids as much as I like. Holidays blow w/o them but I take that time to do stuff that I want to do, that makes me better and lets me heal. 

I told my EX, when she left I wasn't going to be friends with her and I didn't care what she did with her life. I wasn't going to be there for her. I don't speak to her. I don't do things with her. I told the kids sorry but there is no way.

I have been with my girlfriend now a good amount of time. She is great. Kids are doing better. I took the kids to counseling and it bothered me that the counselor basically worked with the kids helping them to have a better relationship with their mother. I paid the thousands of dollars for that. I didn't like it, but it was for the kids so I just did it. 

When I had Dday, I was told I was a bad father, bad husband the worst in the world, that I was f-d up... I listened and I took it to heart. I faced my demons head on. I fixed things about myself. I grew. I'm not who I was when I was married. I really improved myself. My EX is the same person she was when she cheated on me...

I grew, she didn't. I don't look back with regret. I look forward with optimism. I trigger. I get angry. I release it at the gym in a nice healthy manner. Don't pity yourself. Realize that you don't sit down to pee, cross your legs or wear a skirt. Be the man that you were born to be and start taking control of your life in a positive way.

My girlfriend is absolutely gorgeous inside and out. She also has Borderline Personality Disorder. The thing is I understand her and all of the stuff that I went through prepared me to be the man she needed in her life. You see I am very religious and I asked God to give me what he wanted me to have. Through this whole thing, because I chose to take this terrible thing and to reinvent myself on who I was, I was able to be there for her in ways that she has never had before. She was the answer to my prayers and I was the answer to hers. When I learned she had BPD, I could have left. I gave her the opportunity to start the therapy that would help. People have to chose to work on themselves. You can't do it for them and you can't change the past. You can just grab hold of the present and make the most of it. I was not going to just walk out on my gf because she was broken so to speak. I had that done to me. She took the opportunity to go to DBT and our relationship is getting to be wonderful. I still have to translate some of her actions to her feelings but since I now understand her so much better. It's easy. She takes my kids and treats them like her own. I actually would cry because she can read peoples feelings so well, it's amazing. She will look at my kids and just give them what they need, loving attention from a female.

If you take the time to forgive her for yourself, to take the opportunity to make yourself be the best person you can and to be able to look back and see that you were really meant for better things in life, your life will begin to unfold in great ways that you may never have dreamed.


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## Juicer (May 2, 2012)

Doesn't feel like anything is making me feel better anymore. Except alcohol. Having some wine. Trying to numb this pain away but taking it easy. 

I had to work late to night. So what do I think about? 
This time last year, XW was contemplating how to tell me she had an affair, and how to tell me without me going roid rage on her ass since I was juiced. 
And I thought back to when I would work late other times. She would be with him. Doing...I wish I could say God only knows what, but I can't. The damn mental movies still plague me sometimes. 

Usually I don't feel this bad on Wednesday. Tuesdays are just the worst because those are the days I have counseling sessions, but today, I am not feeling any better. 

I understand the pain from yesterday, but usually, it didn't bleed over. I could just sleep, and try and push it away. Forget it. Shrug it off like a bad dream the next day.
Today, I couldn't. Today, it stuck with me. It creeps back into my mind at work, at the gym, when I am driving, and it won't leave. 

How do I get this out of my head? I am reaching my breaking point. I just want this pain to stop.


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## Jeffery (Oct 8, 2012)

Juicer, you will have to live with it for a while there is no quick fix. and self medicating can sometimes create more problems. Are you having any contact with your XW? is she dating, is this part of the problem, or is she still trying to get you back?? Have you thought about dating?


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## Cabsy (Mar 25, 2013)

Why hasn't the affair/divorce been addressed in counseling? Have you just not had enough sessions? I understand underlying issues need to be fixed, and maybe there are other topics in your life that are taking precedence; but as a guy who just read your story, your marriage seems to still weigh on you heavily despite outwardly moving past it/her. If you haven't let her go completely, are lamenting your decision in any way, etc... and you already made your choice, well I can see the continued pain that could come from that.

Otherwise... while I'm only a month into this kind of pain, a year doesn't seem abnormal from what I've read so far.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Juicer, I never felt rage at the time. I just felt incredibly crushed and broken.

Then came the heavy drinking, my own stupid revenge affair almost went PA, but didn't.

I never went after the POSOM -though I knew where he lived- and afterwards, I wondered if I'd have felt better if I had? I think taking everything into consideration, I am glad I didn't.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

HarryDoyle said:


> Hard to compare since I'm still in R. I don't think a divorce just shuts off all the pain, in my case I thought it would make it worse so I gave R a shot and it seems to be working, for us at least. Our MC wasn't much into dredging up the past. We talked about it one session, that was it, just so he could get a background on what was going on. From then on we just worked on fixing our marriage (communication, etc.). Of course the wife and I still talk about the A and the past sometimes if I need too, but she's answered all my questions and I don't bring it up too much anymore. Of course it still hurts, and I think about it a lot, but it doesn't consume me anymore.


This is why I can't stand it when people scream DIVORCE immediately on this board. It is sometimes the answer but it doesn't always help the betrayed feel better.

Juicer's wife's A was really bad in the physical sense, but it didn't last long and she was extremely remorseful. She was doing everything she possibly could to get Juicer back. 

Juicer, have you considered dating her again?

I mean, you already proved that you were no pushover - you divorced her. Would re-opening that door now ease your pain?


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## lisab0105 (Oct 26, 2011)

Gabriel said:


> This is why I can't stand it when people scream DIVORCE immediately on this board. It is sometimes the answer but it doesn't always help the betrayed feel better.
> 
> Juicer's wife's A was really bad in the physical sense, but it didn't last long and she was extremely remorseful. She was doing everything she possibly could to get Juicer back.
> 
> ...


I sent him a PM suggesting the same thing just now...


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