# Wife wants divorce and she just had an emotional affair



## GoingThroughItGuy

In May 2020 my wife came to me and said she’s not happy and talked about separating. Of course from my perspective, it came out of left field and I was shocked. Things weren’t good but I didn’t realize they were that bad. Then at the beginning of August I discovered she was having an emotional affair with her ex for the previous 2 months (texting and calling and met him once for lunch). I believe its over but I have no way to know for sure and when I confronted her she downplayed and lied and only admitted to what I had hard evidence of. She said she thinks maybe he is her soulmate and always felt this deep connection to him. He is a mess right now and she tried to fix him once in the past and that didn’t work so I don’t’ think she really has intentions of running off with him and she says she doesn’t, but who knows. She says the feelings have subsided and she doesn’t want to be with him. I was devastated by that on top of the tension that started in May. Lost 10 pounds and have been having sleeping problems, etc. I’m seeing mental health professionals to help with that

We married 7 years ago and dated on and off prior for about 2 years. She got pregnant shortly after we moved in together and we decided to “do it right” and we got married, bought a house together, had a 2nd child in 2015, etc. So we have a 7 and 4 year old now. We’ve had our ups and downs but did bicker a lot and there were unspoken power struggles over the years, etc. We never really showed a lot of affection (cuddling, hand holding, etc.). She has said in the past she’s not a very touchy feely person but we still should have been affectionate some times. She’s very independent and headstrong and so am I. I do also work a lot which she complained about but up until the middle of 2018, so did she. I have cut back my hours recently. The last year has been especially hard – my father passed away in May 2019 suddenly due to a horrible accident, our 7 year old son had major behavioral problems during the of Spring 2020 and the pandemic lock down hasn’t helped either.

We’re in marriage counseling (Gottman method) but she is very much “leaning out”. Feels like its happening so fast and this isn’t the woman I married. She talks about wanting to be a free spirit and not tied down and feels trapped in the wife and mother role. Maybe a mid life crisis? I feel like that's so selfish because for her to do that our kids see each parent 50% of the time. Of course she Googles what she wants (confirmation bias) and concludes divorce is better than a "loveless marriage". Maybe it is but it kills me that she is reluctant to try hard to make it work. Over the last year we only had sex once per month and she complained that she was always tired and stressed and I just figured it was because of everything we were going through. She says she hasn’t been happy for a while but then right around the time of her emotional affair the says the switch just flipped in her head quickly that she wants to get divorced. We both put our careers and kids first and didn’t do anything to work on our relationship over the years. I definitely could have done better and put effort into making her feel special and happy. She admits she could have done better too. I just kind of always felt like I put up with her crap and therefore never wanted to do anything nice for her and felt like we had an unspoken agreement that this is how it was. Should have done something about that years ago. Figured once we achieved enough in our careers and the kids got a little older at some point we could focus on our relationship in the future.

Deep down I really do love her and feel like if we both wanted to we can re-invent our marriage if we put the time and effort in. She does say she still loves me but see’s me more as a friend and doesn’t “desire” me (“that’s the word she uses), yet we’ve been having sex about twice a week lately now that it’s all out on the table and I told her I do have a higher sex drive than what I previously expressed to her. She does get off but I know it’s the emotional connection that’s missing. She says she “wants that feeling” and I can’t help but to think she got a taste of that butterflies in the stomach / limerence from the ex and now nothing I do can compare to that. Also she says she doesn’t like kissing me which isn’t a good sign.

She has said she'd prefer to keep our family together if she can get the feeling for me back but she doesn't really see how some therapist can help us make that happen. She's very confused and her answers contradict one another. I know I can’t change her and can only work on myself and have to be outcome independent. Now I’m so depressed and angry and sad, I’m at a low point. Not to make excuses but I’ve been in a ****ty situation for other reasons since May 2019 and this is the straw that broke the camel's back. Feel like she’s bailing on me when times are tough – I feel extremely betrayed. Really grinds my gears that she's so quick to think divorce is the fix and reluctant to try and fix things. I’m finding it incredibly difficult to be better and I’m demoralized. How can I find the strength in such a **** storm to be better than you were before? If I want to reconcile what should focus on given my particular situation? Half the advice out there says to work on myself and be the best version of myself I can and do that for me and also if she see's that she may think twice. The other half says to detach and do my own things and then when she see's what its like with me detached she may think twice. I don't know what to do or how to cope.


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## MattMatt

She has cheated on you, but she'll blame you and/or come up with nonsense excuses and reasons to justify her bad behaviour.

She feel trapped by the role of a mother? 

She needs to...


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## RandomDude

She's done. It's over.

Say bye bye, and be thankful it's only been 7 years. Doesn't have to be a drama, make it amicable for the kids.


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## BlueWoman

Oh I am so sorry. You are going to get a lot of hard truths here. Listen to them, the people here are right about 99% of the time. It’s likely that she has crossed the line physically. She isn’t the person you married or maybe she was and you just didn’t see it. Personally, I think either is possible. Yes she is selfish and immature. And you can’t fix it. Your best bet is to hire an attorney and prepare for divorce. One of two things will happen, 1) you will be prepared when **** hits the fan,and while emotionally you will be a wreck, financially you will have protected yourself and your kids; or 2) She will be slapped out of the affair fog and try to work on the marriage. Unfortunately, I suspect number 1 is more likely, but 2 happens occasionally. If 2 happens, then you can establish some strong boundaries. 

What you absolutely have to do is not blame yourself for this. And don’t waste time trying to convince her to work on it. It won’t work and it weakens your position. Use her affair fog to your advantage. The worst thing I had to face was my love for my ex and our relationship just wasn’t that special. It turns out we all pretty much follow similar patterns. And the pattern you are following has been played out time and time again on this forum. 

Again, I am so sorry.


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## bobert

Divorce _is_ better than a loveless marriage. For you, your wife, _and_ your children. 

It is better for the children as well because right now they are watching you and your wife and absorbing _everything_. Kids are little sponges. Your marriage, as it stands right now, will be normal to your kids. Then they have a good shot of going off and repeating or accepting the same behaviors in their relationships. My kids have picked up on all sorts of **** I wish they hadn't. 

Of course, kids are better off in a loving family than a broken one. But is there anything worth saving in your marriage? Bickering, power struggles, lack of sex, no affection (and never has been). All marriages have problems, but are you trying to get back to a good marriage, or create one? It's hard to get something back that you never had in the first place. 

For the record, if your wife thinks therapy won't work... then it won't work. You both have to be all in. 

You also cannot reconcile if you don't even know what you are agreeing to. You don't know the details of her affair, so how can you possibly reconcile? You could spend months or years doing the hard, hard work to reconcile just to have another D-Day and have to start from scratch because you found out she slept with him, the affair started earlier, there was someone else, the affair was ongoing, etc. Until the affair is properly dealt with, reconciliation is off the table IMO. 

You said this:


> Half the advice out there says to work on myself and be the best version of myself I can and do that for me and also if she see's that she may think twice. The other half says to detach and do my own things and then when she see's what its like with me detached she may think twice.


That is kind of the same thing, no? You CAN detach, do your own thing, work on yourself, and be the best version of yourself. That pretty much follows the idea of the 180. The thing is though, that is for YOU... not to get your spouse back. You cannot go into the 180 thinking it will help "win" your spouse back.


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## lifeistooshort

Hmm.....putting up with each others crap and not doing anything nice for each other sounds like a ****ty marriage.

If that's how you viewed your wife why would you want to save this marriage?


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## GoingThroughItGuy

BlueWoman said:


> Oh I am so sorry. You are going to get a lot of hard truths here. Listen to them, the people here are right about 99% of the time. It’s likely that she has crossed the line physically. She isn’t the person you married or maybe she was and you just didn’t see it. Personally, I think either is possible. Yes she is selfish and immature. And you can’t fix it. Your best bet is to hire an attorney and prepare for divorce. One of two things will happen, 1) you will be prepared when **** hits the fan,and while emotionally you will be a wreck, financially you will have protected yourself and your kids; or 2) She will be slapped out of the affair fog and try to work on the marriage. Unfortunately, I suspect number 1 is more likely, but 2 happens occasionally. If 2 happens, then you can establish some strong boundaries.
> 
> What you absolutely have to do is not blame yourself for this. And don’t waste time trying to convince her to work on it. It won’t work and it weakens your position. Use her affair fog to your advantage. The worst thing I had to face was my love for my ex and our relationship just wasn’t that special. It turns out we all pretty much follow similar patterns. And the pattern you are following has been played out time and time again on this forum.
> 
> Again, I am so sorry.


Thanks for the really good advice. On mobile now so I can't give a long response but please elaborate on how I use the affair fog to my advantage.


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## attheend02

GoingThroughItGuy said:


> Thanks for the really good advice. On mobile now so I can't give a long response but please elaborate on how I use the affair fog to my advantage.


You take control of the situation... 
Your wife is mostly likely cheating on you. Admit that, Go to a lawyer and get your ducks in a row for divorce.
Doing it while she is in the fog will give you the most leverage.


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## Beach123

Let’s fix the title... my wife wants a divorce because she has been cheating by having an emotional affair.

the affair caused her dissatisfaction with the marriage. You can’t compete with fantasy and pretend lives - that emotional affairs are.


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## BluesPower

Yeah buddy, she is already cheating. You know it and everyone else knows it too. 

She has probably been banging him for a while. You need to be sure that your kids are you, sorry to tell you that. I know that even the thought of that hurts. 

It happens EVERY SINGLE DAY...

File for divorce, take care of your kids and be done with her.

AND DO NOT TAKE HER BACK... Most likely she will wake up after the divorce and want to come back after prince charming goes to jail or the hospital or whatever his issue it.

Move on brother, nothing to save here...


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## Dadto2

Been there, done that.....and you are the victim here, not her. You are in control (whether you believe it or not). You need to flip the switch and take control. Tell her what she did hurt you terribly and you deserve and want better in a marriage. But that you're willing...for a short period of time...to work on it with her for the sake of the children. But if she's not willing to do the work, you are gone. Then tell her she's free to leave and that you will be okay. You will take time to heal and then find someone that truly deserves you. Then leave and never look back. Co-parent like you are running a business with her. $5 says she will one day regret her decision. My ex did, but I was long gone and better for it.


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## GoingThroughItGuy

BlueWoman said:


> Oh I am so sorry. You are going to get a lot of hard truths here. Listen to them, the people here are right about 99% of the time. It’s likely that she has crossed the line physically. She isn’t the person you married or maybe she was and you just didn’t see it. Personally, I think either is possible. Yes she is selfish and immature. And you can’t fix it. Your best bet is to hire an attorney and prepare for divorce. One of two things will happen, 1) you will be prepared when **** hits the fan,and while emotionally you will be a wreck, financially you will have protected yourself and your kids; or 2) She will be slapped out of the affair fog and try to work on the marriage. Unfortunately, I suspect number 1 is more likely, but 2 happens occasionally. If 2 happens, then you can establish some strong boundaries.
> 
> What you absolutely have to do is not blame yourself for this. And don’t waste time trying to convince her to work on it. It won’t work and it weakens your position. Use her affair fog to your advantage. The worst thing I had to face was my love for my ex and our relationship just wasn’t that special. It turns out we all pretty much follow similar patterns. And the pattern you are following has been played out time and time again on this forum.
> 
> Again, I am so sorry.


Thanks for being so empathetic. It really does hurt. Even if it was emotional she crossed a major line. If she came to me and said she wasn't happy and I then said I wasn't either and we got all the junk out in the open then this would be so much easier to try and potentially reconcile but this just throws a huge wrench in that and changes everything.

I've asked her multiple times if anything physical happen, even a kiss. Of course she denies. I'll never know for sure. She has changed. She used to be so traditional and family oriented. And now all of sudden she talks about how marriage is just what society wants, and the divorce rate is this and millennial don't marry, and most people are in unhappy marriages and that's not for her, blah blah blah - confirmation bias. She now says its important to be with someone who give her that "feeling" and maybe she never had it with but we "had other things". WTF? Not saying we didn't have a rocky road but seems like a bit of re-writing history on her part. Its like she turned into a rebellious teenager. 

Then why the hell did she marry me. Why did she brings kids into the mix. Wish I would have known that in the beginning. I get it that people grow and change but this is a stretch for a 41 year old to have a huge paradigm shift on the lifestyle she wants in such a short time period. 

I only have logs of calls and texts and confirmed location but unfortunately no actual communications. I feel like people that see texts and emails are in a better spot because at least then they can ascertain the nature of the communications. Of course she claims they were just catching up but she did admit to having those really strong feelings for him and she figured if she saw him and he wasn't' the same person then that would get him out of her head. Yea and what if she like what she saw.

The therapist advises against this and that it just opens up pandoras box and I still want know everything, but pretty sure if she were to restore a back up of her phone then I can see the texts. should I be putting my foot down and demanding this or will that just make me feel ****tier. I think I need to know as much of the truth as possible to see what reconciliation would look like just like another poster pointed out. What does everyone think about that?


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## bobert

GoingThroughItGuy said:


> The therapist advises against this and that it just opens up pandoras box and I still want know everything, but pretty sure if she were to restore a back up of her phone then I can see the texts. should I be putting my foot down and demanding this or will that just make me feel ****tier. I think I need to know as much of the truth as possible to see what reconciliation would look like just like another poster pointed out. What does everyone think about that?


The therapist sounds like a quack. 

Yes, at a certain point the couple has to move forward and stop bringing it up, but in my experience that happens naturally over time... if things are properly dealt with. Eventually you just don't need to do that anymore. But you don't even know what happened! The affair has not been dealt with and apparently your therapist just wants to rug sweep it. Find a new one.

Yes, you need to put your foot down. If your wife is unwilling to own up to her actions then she is not a candidate for reconciliation anyway. 

As for feeling worse if you know the details, yeah, you will feel worse when you start learning the truth about her betrayal. However, it HAS to be done. At minimum, you need to know the who, what, when, where, why's and you need an accurate timeline. As for getting into the details, you need to decide what you need to know. Choose carefully. 

Keep in mind, deleted data does not hang around forever. Some or all of the data may have been overwritten. You need to act quickly.


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## Rob_1

GoingThroughItGuy said:


> Deep down I really do love her


My friend, the first think you need to understand is that "your Love" got nothing to do with your problem. She's not in love with you, probably never really was. The first thing to do is stop living in "hopium" and fear. Immediately seek advice from at least two attorneys so that you star gauging where you stand when the divorce comes (because it will). Next DNA your kids, if her ex has been in mind all this time you never know. Please, do not falter on this, make sure that they are yours.

Next you need to understand that as an individual you need to have self worth and, self-respect, sufficient enough to be able to say with confidence tho yourself that you deserve better. Love and relationship shouldn't be that difficult at all. If it is then you are in the wrong relationship. She already told you that his ex is her "soulmate". What that heck are you doing with her after she told you that? To me that shows that you are lacking in the self-respect aspect. Any woman that tells me that I would just walk away forever, no looking back. Just make sure you get you 50/50 with the children and your assets, and be done. Don't try to force what doesn't come naturally. To her, you are a forced relationship that she got into.


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## Openminded

Maybe she married you because she was pregnant. Only she knows the answer to that but she wouldn’t be the first female to make that choice if that’s what she did. Or maybe she thought she loved you and now feels she doesn’t. Again, you’ll never know the real truth so you’ll have to base your decision on what you feel is best for you and your children.


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## Deejo

Welcome to TAM! The greatest informational marriage resource nobody wants to need.

Lots of people here that have been down the path you are on. Myself included.

Many folks come here wanting to know what they can do to 'fix' or change the current dynamic they find themselves in. Make their detached spouse more engaged, change bad behavior, etc.

With an EA in play, none of that is going to work. She is emotionally invested in that 'bubble world', because it certainly isn't the real world; and her relationship to, and with you is in the way. That is the simplest way to view your circumstances.

First things first. Start taking care of yourself. As if you were ALREADY single. Both physical and emotional care of yourself. Have hobbies? Double down on them? Thinking about exercise ... do it. Probably the single best thing you can do under these circumstances. Start actively envisioning what your life looks like (realistically, as opposed to what she is doing) without your wife being your partner under the same roof.

Try to be positive and upbeat around your kids. Children are mirrors. If you are behaving like the bottom is dropping out of your world (may feel that way, but trust me, it isn't) then your children will feel like the bottom is dropping out of theirs.

You may want to consider individual counseling for yourself. I generally encourage people to try and realistically weigh what is going on. And in doing so, become proactive in dissolving your marriage for your own welfare, if it is apparent you have a partner that has no interest in trying to preserve the marriage.

You're going to get a lot of advice here. Some of it you will find very useful, some of it not so much. The nature of what we have to offer.

If you have questions, ask. I can promise you, we've seen it all.


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## Beach123

Have her take a polygraph test! Insist on it!
If she asks why you can tell her you really don’t believe her story.

obviously, I think she’s blatantly lying to you (call it a woman’s intuition).


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## sokillme

She doesn't love you and there is no way to make her. Don't stay with broken because it's easier and you are used to it. There really isn't much to save.

In the end you will be just wasting time, and that is the one resource you will never get back in this world.

Besides that why are you settling for so little?


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## californian

You're suffering from oneitis, the worst relationship disease a man or woman can have. It is worse than Coronavirus or any plague. Why not just agree with her, tell her you understand her, that you're now doubting the institution of marriage yourself too, that you want her to be happy, and that she can do whatever she wants, and that perhaps she should not hold herself and meet the other man even more often? Not hard to do if you really love that person and have backbone. Then move on with you life, use your freedom to take a chance to secure yourself a better life and do whatever you want! You'll be taking chances against what is a guaranteed disaster. Just imagine all of the possibilities of exploring all sorts of relationships with other women.


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## AliceA

GoingThroughItGuy said:


> Thanks for being so empathetic. It really does hurt. Even if it was emotional she crossed a major line. If she came to me and said she wasn't happy and I then said I wasn't either and we got all the junk out in the open then this would be so much easier to try and potentially reconcile but this just throws a huge wrench in that and changes everything.
> 
> I've asked her multiple times if anything physical happen, even a kiss. Of course she denies. I'll never know for sure. She has changed. She used to be so traditional and family oriented. And now all of sudden she talks about how marriage is just what society wants, and the divorce rate is this and millennial don't marry, and most people are in unhappy marriages and that's not for her, blah blah blah - confirmation bias. She now says its important to be with someone who give her that "feeling" and maybe she never had it with but we "had other things". WTF? Not saying we didn't have a rocky road but seems like a bit of re-writing history on her part. Its like she turned into a rebellious teenager.
> 
> Then why the hell did she marry me. Why did she brings kids into the mix. Wish I would have known that in the beginning. I get it that people grow and change but this is a stretch for a 41 year old to have a huge paradigm shift on the lifestyle she wants in such a short time period.
> 
> I only have logs of calls and texts and confirmed location but unfortunately no actual communications. I feel like people that see texts and emails are in a better spot because at least then they can ascertain the nature of the communications. Of course she claims they were just catching up but she did admit to having those really strong feelings for him and she figured if she saw him and he wasn't' the same person then that would get him out of her head. Yea and what if she like what she saw.
> 
> The therapist advises against this and that it just opens up pandoras box and I still want know everything, but pretty sure if she were to restore a back up of her phone then I can see the texts. should I be putting my foot down and demanding this or will that just make me feel ****tier. I think I need to know as much of the truth as possible to see what reconciliation would look like just like another poster pointed out. What does everyone think about that?


I differ from many people here in that I didn't want to know all the gory details. In the end it doesn't matter. He said he wanted out. I found out about the "emotional" or whatever (who cares) affair that I had suspected shortly after. As soon as he said he wanted out, I was done. It's not my place, or your place, or anyone's place, to try and stop a person from leaving a relationship they no longer want to be in. You feel the pain and grief and all the rest, then you get over it. You focus on protecting the kids from any backlash, but it's okay if they see you are sad. At the end of the day, the marriage is really a vow you made to a person and is only as meaningful as the person wants it to be. When it's all good people feel like marriage is forever. My ex used to say he "didn't believe in divorce", yet here we are. Regardless of what someone says, if you stop "making" them happy (which seems to be many people's expectations of marriage), suddenly marriage is just a piece of paper and easily discarded.


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## PieceOfSky

At the risk of confusing your life with mine, I’ll say...

One of the worst things that could happen is you convince her the grass isn’t greener over there, and convince her to settle for life with you. Which is another way of saying you settle for a life with her-who-settles.

You can chase after facts, and hypothesize about why she feels this way or is acting that way, and what you could have done differently. You can try to think of ways to open her heart to you, snap her out of the fog, and lead her to reconnect with you who she has turned from. The danger is that takes time, and the passage of time makes it easier for you and her to settle. If you are like me, the only fact you could possibly discover that would propel you to decisive action is if you found there was physical contact; other facts, whether you find them or not, may tend to keep you trapped in an indecisive loop — after all, they weren’t “that” bad. (Maybe you’re not like me, though.)

Do you think you are worthy of being with someone that is really in to you? Someone you can trust? Someone you can count on? Someone who is not ambivalent towards you? Do you truly feel you are worth that, and that such is possible for you? If not, that is where you should invest your professional help and time.

IME, it’s torture to be with someone who wishes she had found someone “better” or different, someone who sees you as the one who came between her and her happiness and fulfillment. Someone who, instead of longing for reconnection with you and is invested in reconnecting, pines for and pursues a fantasy life with past loves and missed connections.


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## lifeistooshort

PieceOfSky said:


> At the risk of confusing your life with mine, I’ll say...
> 
> One of the worst things that could happen is you convince her the grass isn’t greener over there, and convince her to settle for life with you. Which is another way of saying you settle for a life with her-who-settles.
> 
> You can chase after facts, and hypothesize about why she feels this way or is acting that way, and what you could have done differently. You can try to think of ways to open her heart to you, snap her out of the fog, and lead her to reconnect with you who she has turned from. The danger is that takes time, and the passage of time makes it easier for you and her to settle. If you are like me, the only fact you could possibly discover that would propel you to decisive action is if you found there was physical contact; other facts, whether you find them or not, may tend to keep you trapped in an indecisive loop — after all, they weren’t “that” bad. (Maybe you’re not like me, though.)
> 
> Do you think you are worthy of being with someone that is really in to you? Someone you can trust? Someone you can count on? Someone who is not ambivalent towards you? Do you truly feel you are worth that, and that such is possible for you? If not, that is where you should invest your professional help and time.
> 
> IME, it’s torture to be with someone who wishes she had found someone “better” or different, someone who sees you as the one who came between her and her happiness and fulfillment. Someone who, instead of longing for reconnection with you and is invested in reconnecting, pines for and pursues a fantasy life with past loves and missed connections.


I think this is great advice. From what I can tell you two have never been that happy with each other. You said yourself that you were just putting up with her and never made much effort, so its probably best if you go your separate ways.

Maybe you'll both find someone you're really into and who is into you.


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## BigDigg

Hey Op...hang in there. There's no way around the 'sting' something like this brings so can't help you there. I think AliciaA is spot on. It's going to be painful for a bit so allow that to be, keep processing and find acceptance. No timetable for that...gory details don't really matter...it's over and likely never was. That's hard. I'm sorry.

Silver lining...she's probably done you a favor in the big picture scheme of things. From what you have stated this wasn't a loving marriage and neither sides needs were being met. She's given you the gift of showing you exactly who she is and early on enough in marriage and in life that there's a long road for happiness ahead. As others have stated you can't 'win her back'. When someone wants out any efforts to restrain them won't be received with love. All you can do is focus on kids and self and move on.

So try and look at this as an opportunity to pause and reflect and come out on the other side a better father and person. Not sure where you are starting from but focus on your health and get in best shape of life. Your mind will mend with your body. And there will be a day you'll meet someone new...you'll experience real love again...and you'll be grateful this person isn't in your life anymore. Promise


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## Tdbo

To the OP: You have received a lot of good advice here.
The only thing that I have to add is that you are in charge of your misery. You can only be treated badly with your permission.
Your passiveness is propelling your misery. You are focusing on attempting to save your marriage to someone who at best has no clarity, or at worst doesn't really give a damn.
You are wasting time and money at this point seeking counseling. At this stage, your wife has no clarity, and presents as a talking, potted plant.
The best path to clarity is a straight line. You need to take charge of your destiny. Document everything, get your affairs sorted, find a killer attorney and file.
When she has been served and it sinks in is when you will know if there is anything to save. If she removes her head from her anal orifice and wants to save the marriage, then you can outline your requirements to do so. You should accept no less than 150% effort from her to do so, and you should require her to do the hard work to fix her malfunctions if she wishes you to even consider R.
However when it all shakes out, you will probably see that she is not in for doing the work required, and probably wants to look for the proverbial "Greener pasture." At that point, focus on your future and do what is in the best interest of you and your kids.
When someone shows you what they really are, believe them.


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## GoingThroughItGuy

I appreciate all the hard truths and activity on this thread. If it matters, and I confirmed this based on what I uncovered, she connected with her ex on FB and then had a vivid dream about him days later. She says after the dream she couldn't get him out of her head. Of course its like then WTF did you keep contacting him - of course that's not gonig to help you get him out of yoru head. They had roughly 3 hours of talk time in May and June and exchanged about 50 texts. 1 is too many but compared to other affairs that was a huge amount of interaction over that time period. I was only able to see the May texts which all looked innocent. Would have like to have seen the more recent texts as things developed because if there was more incriminating details they would have been the more recent texts. With COVID I know there were only 2 possible times they could have met and confirmed 1. So this went on for about 2 months. 

She did admit to me that she thinks she thinks she still loves him which obviously stings bad. Now she says that she saw him and realizes he's not the same person she doesn't feel that way anymore and she just wanted to see him to see how he is doing and hopefully that would get it out of her system. And assuming she really doesn't have those feelings anymore which I can't know without reading her mind, it seems convenient that she stopped feeling that way now that she got caught. And the other side of the coin, what if she saw him and was like yea, I still like what I see. she shouldn't have opened Pandora's box. To see if she is still in contact, even if i get full access to her phone she can just cover her tracks better and she can just use apps that encrypt and instantly delete the messages so I feel like that's futile now that she knows I know. Its all completely unacceptable and of course I always wondered how long it would have went on if I didn't catch her. This f'n sucks!!

I can't read her mind. She says she's not trying to split up to be with him and all the nonsense about needing space and needing to find herself and she wouldn't even date right away so on and so forth. One minute she says she wants to be independent and on her own and the next she talks about wanting to be with someone she desires and gives that "feeling". Sounds like she's chasing the feeling of a new relationship and not what you get out a LTR. Unrealistic expectations and selfish if you ask me. 

Not that our relationship was great, especially recently, but I see a lot of the affair fog behaviors where her behavior is erratic. One day she's like lets try to make this work and I don't want to make a rash decision then the next its I just really want to end this sooner rather than later because its so stressful living like this in the here and now. More recently she seems to sway a bit more to the lets give this the best chance we can, but not consistently, so maybe she is snapping out of the fog. Not that our relationship was good especially recently, but she emphasizes the negative (re-writing history). She did just make an appointment with an individual counselor for next week and she is averse to counseling so that's promising. So at least she taking some steps to take this decision seriously and not rush it.

I take my time with all big decision so a lot of this has to do with it feeling rushed. I want us to both give it the best effort. I have to put my happiness and the fact that I deserve to be loved and fulfilled, first, but of course breaking up the family and the financial hit weight on my decision. I don't want to be with someone who isn't into me. So if after 3-6 months of trying to make this work and counseling, she's not into me then I'm done. And if over the course of that time as I accept this more and more and clarify my feeling towards her and what I really want and deserve, and/or I realize she's not fulfilling me how I need to be, or the scar from this isn't healing or I just can't trust her anymore then I'll be the one that wants the divorce whether or not she does or doesn't after that time period.

I'd prefer that she snaps out of it and shows more guilt and remorse and starts to genuinely really desire me more and I feel the same about her and we can get past this and keep the family together. But if that doesn't happen on both sides I'm done with this too.

Any advice on snapping someone out of the affair fog or is there not much I can. Regardless of what happens I want both of us deciding with clear minds and not clouded thoughts. Thanks again everyone!


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## GoingThroughItGuy

BigDigg said:


> Hey Op...hang in there. There's no way around the 'sting' something like this brings so can't help you there. I think AliciaA is spot on. It's going to be painful for a bit so allow that to be, keep processing and find acceptance. No timetable for that...gory details don't really matter...it's over and likely never was. That's hard. I'm sorry.
> 
> Silver lining...she's probably done you a favor in the big picture scheme of things. From what you have stated this wasn't a loving marriage and neither sides needs were being met. She's given you the gift of showing you exactly who she is and early on enough in marriage and in life that there's a long road for happiness ahead. As others have stated you can't 'win her back'. When someone wants out any efforts to restrain them won't be received with love. All you can do is focus on kids and self and move on.
> 
> So try and look at this as an opportunity to pause and reflect and come out on the other side a better father and person. Not sure where you are starting from but focus on your health and get in best shape of life. Your mind will mend with your body. And there will be a day you'll meet someone new...you'll experience real love again...and you'll be grateful this person isn't in your life anymore. Promise


This resonates with me. Really sucks. Never thought she could do something like this. And she's been on the reviving end of physical cheating but an old ex-boyfriend (not the same one she was just involved with) so you'd think with that experience under her belt she'd be more prone to not do something like this. I'm trying to accept more and more each day but its really hard. My emotions and disposition are a roller coaster throughout each day. sometimes I just feel like its done and I know it and other I think maybe she'll snap out of it show true remorse and eagerness to fix things and her individual therapy will "knock some sense into her". I'm sure its been said a million times but this isn't what I envisioned for my life. Can't change the past but it really sucks it went down like this. If she didn't do this and instead one of us finally got fed up enough to say we weren't happy and then sought counseling, advice, self-help, or whatever to both acknowledge what was wrong in our marriage and both wanted to fix this it would have a lot better chance, but that's not the case. I can't live in an alternative universe.

Its hard to see the long term future now but I am "only" 40 so I have plenty of life ahead of me. Fortunately, I'm already in pretty good shape and have a really good career. On the other hand that means more to lose in the divorce. Guess that's what good lawyers are for. I'm a good dad but should spend more time with my kids. Like anyone, I have some personality flaws and emotional management deficiencies that I have to work on and I should have my own independent social life and hang out with / re-connect with my guy friends more, indulge hobbies, etc.. I absolutely can be a better person but at least I'm at a pretty good spot. Not like I'm morbidly obese, on parole, unemployed and broke - I'm being overly dramatic but if I was already a mess and then this happened it would be a lot harder to dig out of a hole if it was already very deep. I see these stories about people much older finding out their spouses were having physical affairs for years or even decades and I just couldn't even imagine what that would do to a person. That gives me some perspective too.

When I'm mad, sad and depressed and feeling like crap and not eating or sleeping enough its just really hard to have the will to become better than I was before this went down when I'm in a worse spot now. And if we get divorced I know that is going to be a rough process. Guess I have to start with every fiber of my body to do the work on myself now so I'm resilient and mentally tough to get through whatever happens. Easier said than done.

Never in a million years did I think I might seriously end up a single dad with a 4 year old and a 7 year old paying out child support and seeing my kids 1/2 the time. That's a sickening thought. On the other hand I don't want to be in a loveless marriage where I'm not desired. I always knew that but now I have to face that reality instead of suppressing that and telling myself, we'll address that in the future when the kids are a little older and we can take it a little easier in our careers. But if I chose the wrong partner and this is going to end in divorce one way or the other or at some point in the future then I acknowledge that if that's going to be the result, the sooner the better. I know staying just for the kids isn't a good choice.

Its just so much to take in. I hate that she made it go down like this and that says a lot about her. If the coin was flipped I wouldn't have had an affair in the first place and if my feelings for her were gone and/or I just got to a breaking point where I was so fed up, I would have been so caring and gentle and mindful of her feelings to let her down as easy as possible and invite her to try and fix it and let her down as easy as possible if it didn't work, because that's the type of guy I am and I have empathy. I hate that she basically just threw a grenade in the room and the post affair fog behaviors are infuriating. Its like even if she did want to split at least show more remorse for what she's putting me through.

Uggghhh! I find it therapeutic to vent through the keyboard and appreciate everyone here taking the time to give me feedback and advice.


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## CantBelieveThis

No one ever never goes into marriage thinking of this devastation, so don't beat yourself over it.... It wasn't your fault and infidelity is rampant nowadays so pick yourself up and move forward, yes it will be unpleasant for a while, you will come thru it a better stronger person 

Sent from my SHT-W09 using Tapatalk


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## PieceOfSky

GoingThroughItGuy said:


> She did admit to me that she thinks she thinks she still loves him which obviously stings bad. Now she says that she saw him and realizes he's not the same person she doesn't feel that way anymore and she just wanted to see him to see how he is doing and hopefully that would get it out of her system.


It’s hard to compete against a fantasy. Even when you ultimately win, what do you have? Someone who felt justified to pursue other options, while keeping you clueless and on the leash. Someone who now admits that other has fallen short of the dream, but still isn’t exactly recognizing you as the one she has desired all along.



GoingThroughItGuy said:


> Any advice on snapping someone out of the affair fog or is there not much I can. Regardless of what happens I want both of us deciding with clear minds and not clouded thoughts.


That’s a lot of concern for her thinking process.

Yes, be careful of your own fog. Do you really see her clearly, and experience her as someone truly capable of doing what she has done? Or do you spend time projecting onto her more tolerable reasons such as “temporary” vulnerabilities and confusion

Are you more concerned about the perceived outcome for her if you were to reject her in favor of finding someone better for yourself, than you are about the outcome for you if you were to stay?

If you have too much patience for someone that’s not into you or mature/evolved enough to know what she wants and to live a life free of contradictions and deceitful using of other people, then you’re going to need even more.


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## Kaliber

GoingThroughItGuy said:


> She did admit to me that she thinks she thinks she still loves him which obviously stings bad....
> She says she's not trying to split up to be with him and all the nonsense about needing space ...
> One day she's like lets try to make this work and I don't want to make a rash decision


Seems to me that she is running the show, and you are just waiting on the side for her to make a decision. you let her take control of the marriage, you are not decisive nor leading the relationship like you should do, missing these traits maybe one of the reasons why she lost attraction to you from the start, then she nuked you marriage by starting an affair (I believe it was physical) rather then addressing these issues with you.
But here is a hint, women don't discuss these type of things with their spouses, they don't go and tell them to take leadership, be confidant and dominant etc..They expect that from them!

Women want a husband to take leadership and be dominant in the relationship, you failed your first test when you rug swept her affair and did nothing to hold her accountable, and again when she told you that her ex is her soulmate you stayed passive, being passive is an attraction killer for a woman, your failure to hold her accountable for her attitude destroyed any desire in her towards you, in her eyes you are very weak compared to her Ex or any man she met!

But here is the thing, you don't sound like a weak person, I think you're strong but failed to show it to your wife, plus you know your value and self worth, so take initiative don't let her run all over you and run the show!



GoingThroughItGuy said:


> She did just make an appointment with an individual counselor for next week and she is averse to counseling so that's promising. So at least she taking some steps to take this decision seriously and not rush it.


This won't work, her counsellor can help her navigate her issues and problems but they can never switch on/off feelings and love towards their spouses.



GoingThroughItGuy said:


> So if after 3-6 months of trying to make this work and counseling, she's not into me then I'm done.


Again, you are giving her control over the relationship while you are waiting for the results, it doesn't need a counsellor to make her want/desire you!

*I will advice you this:* Take control, be dominant and confident in you decision, file for divorce, and be firm, it takes months to a year to finalise, you will know in this time period if she wants to fix the marriage (her affair and feelings towards you) and be part of a one unit family, if she does, you can stop the process, if not, you already started it.
Staying passive and given her control while you wait for the outcome is killing your chances with this women. Take control!

I also *strongly *advice you to read those two books (it will change you life): "*No More Mr. Nice Guy*" by Robert Glover (you can download free PDF from the internet) and "*The Married Man's Life Primer*" by Athol Kay

Take care buddy, and I hope I didn't offend you or come across as rude.


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## BigDigg

OP - have seen a million of these and trust me when i say that even though this sucks...I absolutely see your strength and i have no doubt a year from now you'll be back here and thankful on the weight lifted and excited for your new life. Sometimes in life you have a connection and think it's strong and lasting but ends up just being part of your journey...appreciate that for what it is and learn from it what you will. Will be a part of you.



GoingThroughItGuy said:


> sometimes I just feel like its done and I know it and other I think maybe she'll snap out of it show true remorse and eagerness to fix things and her individual therapy will "knock some sense into her"


Some here believe in reconciliation...I personally don't but do get there may be right situations and circumstances for and couples that works for. Once the well is poisoned...you can maybe create a 'new' marriage but the old one is dead no matter what 'sense' she comes to. Just based on your post though seems like there are more than enough red flags even early on. Take a deep breath and try to look at the big picture...was she ever the right person for you? Time provides perspective.



GoingThroughItGuy said:


> Guess I have to start with every fiber of my body to do the work on myself now so I'm resilient and mentally tough to get through whatever happens.


Keep this mentality and you are going to come out of this the very best version of self. 

Good luck and hang in there!


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## toonaive

GoingThroughItGuy said:


> In May 2020 my wife came to me and said she’s not happy and talked about separating. Of course from my perspective, it came out of left field and I was shocked. Things weren’t good but I didn’t realize they were that bad. Then at the beginning of August I discovered she was having an emotional affair with her ex for the previous 2 months (texting and calling and met him once for lunch). I believe its over but I have no way to know for sure and when I confronted her she downplayed and lied and only admitted to what I had hard evidence of. She said she thinks maybe he is her soulmate and always felt this deep connection to him. He is a mess right now and she tried to fix him once in the past and that didn’t work so I don’t’ think she really has intentions of running off with him and she says she doesn’t, but who knows. She says the feelings have subsided and she doesn’t want to be with him. I was devastated by that on top of the tension that started in May. Lost 10 pounds and have been having sleeping problems, etc. I’m seeing mental health professionals to help with that
> 
> We married 7 years ago and dated on and off prior for about 2 years. She got pregnant shortly after we moved in together and we decided to “do it right” and we got married, bought a house together, had a 2nd child in 2015, etc. So we have a 7 and 4 year old now. We’ve had our ups and downs but did bicker a lot and there were unspoken power struggles over the years, etc. We never really showed a lot of affection (cuddling, hand holding, etc.). She has said in the past she’s not a very touchy feely person but we still should have been affectionate some times. She’s very independent and headstrong and so am I. I do also work a lot which she complained about but up until the middle of 2018, so did she. I have cut back my hours recently. The last year has been especially hard – my father passed away in May 2019 suddenly due to a horrible accident, our 7 year old son had major behavioral problems during the of Spring 2020 and the pandemic lock down hasn’t helped either.
> 
> We’re in marriage counseling (Gottman method) but she is very much “leaning out”. Feels like its happening so fast and this isn’t the woman I married. She talks about wanting to be a free spirit and not tied down and feels trapped in the wife and mother role. Maybe a mid life crisis? I feel like that's so selfish because for her to do that our kids see each parent 50% of the time. Of course she Googles what she wants (confirmation bias) and concludes divorce is better than a "loveless marriage". Maybe it is but it kills me that she is reluctant to try hard to make it work. Over the last year we only had sex once per month and she complained that she was always tired and stressed and I just figured it was because of everything we were going through. She says she hasn’t been happy for a while but then right around the time of her emotional affair the says the switch just flipped in her head quickly that she wants to get divorced. We both put our careers and kids first and didn’t do anything to work on our relationship over the years. I definitely could have done better and put effort into making her feel special and happy. She admits she could have done better too. I just kind of always felt like I put up with her crap and therefore never wanted to do anything nice for her and felt like we had an unspoken agreement that this is how it was. Should have done something about that years ago. Figured once we achieved enough in our careers and the kids got a little older at some point we could focus on our relationship in the future.
> 
> Deep down I really do love her and feel like if we both wanted to we can re-invent our marriage if we put the time and effort in. She does say she still loves me but see’s me more as a friend and doesn’t “desire” me (“that’s the word she uses), yet we’ve been having sex about twice a week lately now that it’s all out on the table and I told her I do have a higher sex drive than what I previously expressed to her. She does get off but I know it’s the emotional connection that’s missing. She says she “wants that feeling” and I can’t help but to think she got a taste of that butterflies in the stomach / limerence from the ex and now nothing I do can compare to that. Also she says she doesn’t like kissing me which isn’t a good sign.
> 
> She has said she'd prefer to keep our family together if she can get the feeling for me back but she doesn't really see how some therapist can help us make that happen. She's very confused and her answers contradict one another. I know I can’t change her and can only work on myself and have to be outcome independent. Now I’m so depressed and angry and sad, I’m at a low point. Not to make excuses but I’ve been in a **ty situation for other reasons since May 2019 and this is the straw that broke the camel's back. Feel like she’s bailing on me when times are tough – I feel extremely betrayed. Really grinds my gears that she's so quick to think divorce is the fix and reluctant to try and fix things. I’m finding it incredibly difficult to be better and I’m demoralized. How can I find the strength in such a ** storm to be better than you were before? If I want to reconcile what should focus on given my particular situation? Half the advice out there says to work on myself and be the best version of myself I can and do that for me and also if she see's that she may think twice. The other half says to detach and do my own things and then when she see's what its like with me detached she may think twice. I don't know what to do or how to cope.


Do yourself and your children a favor. Divorce her, let her go. If she comes back, make sure it is on your terms. But, ultimately, she is already gone. The divorce process moves slowly. A change in her may happen, and maybe not. Either way you taking charge and moving things forward. Right now. You are stuck and it doesn’t feel very good.


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## waynejoey

GoingThroughItGuy said:


> In May 2020 my wife came to me and said she’s not happy and talked about separating. Of course from my perspective, it came out of left field and I was shocked. Things weren’t good but I didn’t realize they were that bad. Then at the beginning of August I discovered she was having an emotional affair with her ex for the previous 2 months (texting and calling and met him once for lunch). I believe its over but I have no way to know for sure and when I confronted her she downplayed and lied and only admitted to what I had hard evidence of. She said she thinks maybe he is her soulmate and always felt this deep connection to him. He is a mess right now and she tried to fix him once in the past and that didn’t work so I don’t’ think she really has intentions of running off with him and she says she doesn’t, but who knows. She says the feelings have subsided and she doesn’t want to be with him. I was devastated by that on top of the tension that started in May. Lost 10 pounds and have been having sleeping problems, etc. I’m seeing mental health professionals to help with that
> 
> We married 7 years ago and dated on and off prior for about 2 years. She got pregnant shortly after we moved in together and we decided to “do it right” and we got married, bought a house together, had a 2nd child in 2015, etc. So we have a 7 and 4 year old now. We’ve had our ups and downs but did bicker a lot and there were unspoken power struggles over the years, etc. We never really showed a lot of affection (cuddling, hand holding, etc.). She has said in the past she’s not a very touchy feely person but we still should have been affectionate some times. She’s very independent and headstrong and so am I. I do also work a lot which she complained about but up until the middle of 2018, so did she. I have cut back my hours recently. The last year has been especially hard – my father passed away in May 2019 suddenly due to a horrible accident, our 7 year old son had major behavioral problems during the of Spring 2020 and the pandemic lock down hasn’t helped either.
> 
> We’re in marriage counseling (Gottman method) but she is very much “leaning out”. Feels like its happening so fast and this isn’t the woman I married. She talks about wanting to be a free spirit and not tied down and feels trapped in the wife and mother role. Maybe a mid life crisis? I feel like that's so selfish because for her to do that our kids see each parent 50% of the time. Of course she Googles what she wants (confirmation bias) and concludes divorce is better than a "loveless marriage". Maybe it is but it kills me that she is reluctant to try hard to make it work. Over the last year we only had sex once per month and she complained that she was always tired and stressed and I just figured it was because of everything we were going through. She says she hasn’t been happy for a while but then right around the time of her emotional affair the says the switch just flipped in her head quickly that she wants to get divorced. We both put our careers and kids first and didn’t do anything to work on our relationship over the years. I definitely could have done better and put effort into making her feel special and happy. She admits she could have done better too. I just kind of always felt like I put up with her crap and therefore never wanted to do anything nice for her and felt like we had an unspoken agreement that this is how it was. Should have done something about that years ago. Figured once we achieved enough in our careers and the kids got a little older at some point we could focus on our relationship in the future.
> 
> Deep down I really do love her and feel like if we both wanted to we can re-invent our marriage if we put the time and effort in. She does say she still loves me but see’s me more as a friend and doesn’t “desire” me (“that’s the word she uses), yet we’ve been having sex about twice a week lately now that it’s all out on the table and I told her I do have a higher sex drive than what I previously expressed to her. She does get off but I know it’s the emotional connection that’s missing. She says she “wants that feeling” and I can’t help but to think she got a taste of that butterflies in the stomach / limerence from the ex and now nothing I do can compare to that. Also she says she doesn’t like kissing me which isn’t a good sign.
> 
> She has said she'd prefer to keep our family together if she can get the feeling for me back but she doesn't really see how some therapist can help us make that happen. She's very confused and her answers contradict one another. I know I can’t change her and can only work on myself and have to be outcome independent. Now I’m so depressed and angry and sad, I’m at a low point. Not to make excuses but I’ve been in a **ty situation for other reasons since May 2019 and this is the straw that broke the camel's back. Feel like she’s bailing on me when times are tough – I feel extremely betrayed. Really grinds my gears that she's so quick to think divorce is the fix and reluctant to try and fix things. I’m finding it incredibly difficult to be better and I’m demoralized. How can I find the strength in such a ** storm to be better than you were before? If I want to reconcile what should focus on given my particular situation? Half the advice out there says to work on myself and be the best version of myself I can and do that for me and also if she see's that she may think twice. The other half says to detach and do my own things and then when she see's what its like with me detached she may think twice. I don't know what to do or how to cope.


In May 2020 my wife came to me and said she’s not happy and talked about separating. - This happened to me in May 2018, sorry brother...

she was having an emotional affair - Well hopefully it hasn't turned physical. Now is the time to admit that you have not met her emotional needs and now you have to become the best you. You also need to speak truth here and set boundaries. Relationships with other men in any form are inappropriate and out of bounds.

concludes divorce is better than a "loveless marriage" - This is a lie. And your wife believes the lie because she doesn't know the truth. Do you know the truth?

she wants to get divorced - My wife said this too, but it was really just a cry for help. Be stalwart.

she still loves me but see’s me more as a friend and doesn’t “desire” me - ILYBNILWY, many of us had that, no different than the other things she said, again all you can do is be the best you

she “wants that feeling” - argh! another lie. Feelings are misleading!!! Your wife is lost. You have to lead her to the truth.

She has said she'd prefer to keep our family together - A huge window of opportunity. Yes!! You see what a woman wants is to be led by her man, but she can't say it, in fact she probably doesn't even recognize it. This is deep within her soul.

Now I’m so depressed and angry and sad, I’m at a low point. - there is only one thing that can defeat this

Really grinds my gears - resentment is useless, let it go. Forgive, because you have been forgiven.

I don't know what to do or how to cope. - Because you also do not know the truth. Are you ready?

Your marriage can be saved, but it will require a higher power. That power is Jesus Christ. If you believe that He died for you, and accept Him as your one and only savior, then the Holy Spirit will come upon you and your heart will begin to change. You will have the power of prayer to change hearts around you, to change the heart of your wife. As you walk in faith, your outward appearance will change to everyone around you. Things you had tastes for before will fade e.g. getting revenge, lust, watching porn, drinking booze, working OT to get that extra $300. Things you didn't have taste before will become more desirable e.g. forgiving someone who doesn't deserve it, serving the poor, and turning to prayer when you need help (instead of trying to fix it yourself).

Steps to save your marriage:

Find a Jesus following, bible-teaching church. Outsiders will call it evangelical, my preference is non-denominational christian (or re-born christian).
Bring your wife, if she won't go, then go alone.
Get connected to the outreach team, whether it is the lead pastor, an outreach pastor, or some other godly man.
Pray. Knock. Seek. Do you hear Jesus? Will you accept the invitation? Will you follow His commands? Or will you try to figure out life on your own.
Change your life, and the things that tend to destroy men
Do not worship your career and work crazy long hours, 40 to 50 tops (including commute)
Stop worrying about money.
Put away your anger. Forgive your wife in everything.
Do not turn to the pain killers: alcohol, weed, pills, binging netflix, etc.
Do not lust after other women or have unhealthy views of your wife, do not watch porn, stop masturbating
Put away your pride. Think of yourself as lower than others. Look to serve first. Be last. But in doing this be strong, courageous, and confident.
Serve the poor. Give to the poor.
Find joy in this trial as this is the gateway to your best marriage ever and everlasting life. Rejoice in this fact!
Be the leader of your household in all things. Lead by example. Don't yell. Listen well. Meet the needs of others. Discipline and rebuke when necessary and be well studied so you can do it properly and with the guidance of the Lord.

Jesus saved my marriage and He can save yours too. My family was able to stay together and everyone is happier than ever.


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