# How to Communicate in the 180



## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Based on some advice in an earlier thread, I am doing the MW 180 program with my fallen out of love wife. Hasn't done anything for my marriage but it's really done a lot for me.

So my wife and I communicate by text message and she can be really rude. Should I use the same tone?


----------



## anonymiss (Jul 20, 2011)

Hey Im going through similar with H. We've been married 7 years. NOt that my story is anything like yours, they're all different. No kids here. 

He said he needed some space, some time to work things out in his head. He "says" this is not permanent, but it's only been 5 days. 

I read the 180 3 days ago. Of course it's a long list and not all of it is applicable to everyone situation. It was however in mine as far as communication goes, so he txts me every day. sometimes to be nice, sometimes in regards to needing something from the house. 
I have greatly limited what I say to him, but Im not being rude. At first he was really short and a bit rude also, but don't feed off of that. The leaver just made a huge decision and has a lot going on upstairs. The leaver is stressed and probably trying NOT to care about you or your feelings because they did just LEAVE you. If they cared that much maybe they wouldn't have left? A friend of mine who was the leaver explained to me how she had to remove her emotions from the situation in order to have the balls to leave. So someone with their emotions removed isn't going to be real kind...
If you feel like there is any hope, continue with the 180 stuff, but you don't have to be rude back. She's trying to get a reaction out of you and in turn will justify why she left you. If you're rude, she'll say to herself "see? he's rude to you, it's OK you left" 

Take all that with a grain of salt...just my 2c worth.

Two wrongs don't make a right


----------



## anonymiss (Jul 20, 2011)

BY the way, since I read the 180, that's what limited my text responses to less than 5 words, and for me to not even THINK about calling. He's told me a few times to call him later. MY response - That defeats the purpose of all this, if you wanna talk to ME, then you call when YOU can... so I dont call, and guess who calls me???

I even had the guts to say to him that he was right, this time apart is gonna be really good for us. He had NOTHING to say, just looked at me trying to figure me out. He said I seemed pleasant and I said, yeah Im OK I guess..are you pleasant?  He said, I'm just so busy with work...blah! I was dressed up real cute to bring him something from the house and before we parted, he asked what I was doing tonight? My first response, I think I'm gonna go out to eat or get some take out... He says, by yourself? I say, yeah, it's cool. Really, what's he gonna think of that?

The things in the 180 about seeming like you've moved on, seem pleasant and happy. DO IT, DO IT DO IT! You know where your heart is. You know dang well you aren't going out to eat by yourself, or going to the movies by yourself, but while they're sitting there alone wondering if they made the right decision, what you're doing will be on their conscience, in stead of what they're doing. I dunno maybe. Maybe I am looney too.


----------



## upset/confused (Jul 26, 2011)

I am also doing the 180 but when he calls I make the kids answer the phone and talk to him. I am myself unavailable. I have only texted him once in 5 days, and when he replied to an email I had sent (first day) asking conditions of this separation, he got angry because I wouldnt talk to him. So Im not sure if it's working, but it is still quite early. There has been no talk about us, only our kids. He is suppose to pick them up for a full day this weekend and I will do the same. Be dressed very nice, pleasant and act like I need to go out without him...


----------



## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Thanks for the support. I realized later that I had ignored my wife's rude message and after a little consideration, I chose not to say anything at all. I'm a little challenged to appear pleasant and happy but I can be resolute. This is the best I've felt in quite a while so the program has been good for me. My wife can fend for herself.


----------



## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Nope. Don't use the same tone.

Don't even reply. Let her be the last to reply and then maybe reply the next day (if she's been rude).


----------



## Undertheradar (May 11, 2011)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> Based on some advice in an earlier thread, I am doing the MW 180 program with my fallen out of love wife. Hasn't done anything for my marriage but it's really done a lot for me.
> 
> So my wife and I communicate by text message and she can be really rude. Should I use the same tone?


Man here.

Since I don't know your history, I have a question:

Your "fallen out of love wife".... Is there or was there someone else?

If so, that changes your approach and could alter your decision going forward.

As far as the 180... It works. However, you need to also apply it to texting.
If she's being rude, let her be rude.... BY HERSELF!!! Why are you positioning yourself to be abused. Albeit via text or in person.
The best weapon is the 180. DISAPPEAR from her life!! 

Let her wonder why she doesn't get to you anymore.
Don't be afraid to let her know that if she's "fallen out of love" with you, that you're prepared to move on. Tell her that you're considering giving her what she wants.
Go join a gym, take a hobby, do anything you can to give her all the space she needs.
make it your business to let her feel as if you've moved on with your life.
Here's the key. No need to fake it either..... Doing that might actually open your eyes. Why would you really want someone that doesn't love you?... If that's the case. But she needs to be tested. Test her!! 
She says she doesn't love you?.... Let her see that you'll leave.
Then go from there.
And honestly, if she truly doesn't love you, you should consider moving on. I went through this, and as soon as they lose you, they want you.... unless they have someone else


----------



## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

There is no "someone else" here. She gets her emotional support from her friends. Thanks to all for your support. I have gotten sufficient clarity to become ambivalent about whether she stays or goes. We have three kids under 10 and a bunch of marital assets so I'm not real keen on breaking this up myself. However, if I could get her to move out so I could start dating, that could be a good thing.


----------



## Undertheradar (May 11, 2011)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> There is no "someone else" here. She gets her emotional support from her friends. Thanks to all for your support. I have gotten sufficient clarity to become ambivalent about whether she stays or goes. We have three kids under 10 and a bunch of marital assets so I'm not real keen on breaking this up myself.* However, if I could get her to move out so I could start dating, that could be a good thing.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> Perfect... Now play it that way with her.
> 
> ...


----------



## anonymiss (Jul 20, 2011)

Mine said he wasn't in love with me but did love me a lot. So I dont want him gone. Now im just stuck.


----------



## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Perfect... Now play it that way with her.

She said she doesn't love you, so ask her to leave. It's that simple.

Do you want her gone?
Ask yourself that question.[/QUOTE]

She finds it close to impossible to communicate without being sarcastic or attacking or both. She says that I deserve to be yelled at (even more than I already have) and that I deserve her sarcasm. I'm probably not going to find this agreeable so she is currently talking her way out.

On the other hand, she is the kids' mom, she had a lot of bad times growing up in her family of origin and she's definitely not (even close to) rational. So I don't want to be overly harsh.

I have recently suffered the loss of my mother and I've always been told not to make a big life decisions for at least a year after an event like that. So I'm probably not going to take action for a while.

1) Should I let her be sarcastic or scornful in front of the kids? If not, should I take exception when the kids are present?

2) When she seeks me out to be abusive and force a conversation about her leaving, is it OK if I run away?


----------



## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Don't "run" away. Calmly leave. You are not a coward.

And as far as her thinking you deserve her verbal abuse, she is wrong. She has issues that she masks with sarcasm.

I know this because I had a problem with sarcasm and it was a mask for my pain and fear (which I'm in therapy for). I've been 4 weeks without sarcasm and it's amazing for myself and my family.

Be strong, but don't be a victim.


----------



## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

that_girl said:


> Don't "run" away. Calmly leave. You are not a coward.
> 
> And as far as her thinking you deserve her verbal abuse, she is wrong. She has issues that she masks with sarcasm.
> 
> ...


I don't consider myself a coward, but I am truly concerned that her pursuing me in a rage might result in any kind of bumping or other physical contact that could be construed as improper. This makes me want to get away fast


----------



## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> I don't consider myself a coward, but I am truly concerned that her pursuing me in a rage might result in any kind of bumping or other physical contact that could be construed as improper. This makes me want to get away fast


 Well, in any case, don't run! Just remove yourself.


----------



## Undertheradar (May 11, 2011)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> I don't consider myself a coward, but I am truly concerned that her pursuing me in a rage might result in any kind of bumping or other physical contact that could be construed as improper. This makes me want to get away fast


Is there a way you could simply "tune her out" for a while?

I mean, just ignore her. Show her that she can't get to you.


----------



## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Undertheradar said:


> Is there a way you could simply "tune her out" for a while?
> 
> I mean, just ignore her. Show her that she can't get to you.


This is a major verbal assault. I'd have to be deaf and dumb or deceased for it not to get to me. I don't know how to tune out someone who follows you around, completely enraged, making ridiculous demands and hostile provocations. I'll walk away with intent.


----------



## Undertheradar (May 11, 2011)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> This is a major verbal assault. I'd have to be deaf and dumb or deceased for it not to get to me. I don't know how to tune out someone who follows you around, completely enraged, making ridiculous demands and hostile provocations. I'll walk away with intent.


OK, here's EXACTLY how I would handle it:

She's following you around, right?
She's completely enraged, right?
She's attacking you,right?

OK..... in your calmest voice (even while she's screaming at you), tell her that her actions are disturbing.
Ask her in a nice way, NOT to follow you around.
Tell her that you are removing yourself from her presence, because of her actions, and you refuse to be attacked.

Leave the house, and ask her to call you when she's ready to speak like a lady.
Give her a TIMEOUT!! Please listen to me.
The only reason she keeps doing this, is because you're listening to her.

Got for a cup of coffee, or join a gym or something. Start making yourself less accessable.


----------



## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Thanks Utr, I appreciate your advice but I'm just not able to do what you suggest. One thing I learned from living in New York for 20 years it's not to try and reason with a crazy person. The reason she keeps doing this is because she is compulsive and she gets herself completely out of control. This is so stupefying that I can't summon a rational response. Kind of like Linda Blair in the Exorcist without the bile and the neck rotations. Nothing that I do or don't do makes any difference. She's playing a core script that transcends me or anyone except maybe her parents who must have taught her this. Amazingly, she holds grudges against me for leaving during her rages and her rages include criticism of my previous leavings. Her self awareness is so distorted that she thinks what she is doing is OK. Because what she is saying feels so seriously important to her, she feels I should be compelled out of respect to stay and listen. I actually used to do this but since my mom passed away, I don't have the emotional fortitude any more.


----------



## xArielle (Aug 2, 2011)

Kids...lots of marital assets...verbally abusive (and not respectful of physical boundaries, sounds like)...it sounds like if you could snap your fingers and have her out of your life w/ no damage to you or the kids, you would.

1) Tell her you think it's in the kids' best interest if you didn't fight or exchange cross words in front of them. If you can, tell her what you plan to do if this happens. 

2) Start recording these temper tantrums. Either get a digital audio recorder you can carry on you or set up a hidden video camera. When she violates boundaries you've asked her to respect, remind her on the record, so to speak. "Remember, I asked you not to speak to me disrespectfully, especially in front of the kids."

3) Record any time she speaks to the kids abusively.

4) Try Radar's approach on the record. Be clear. It doesn't matter if she can't be reasoned with; the important thing is to not be accessible to her. 

5) If you see her be physically or verbally abusive or neglectful of the children, consider calling CPS. I know it's counter-intuitive, but if someone else were to see/hear it and call CPS, and if CPS determines abuse is occurring, it would count against you that you witnessed it and did not act to prevent it from occurring then or in the future.

6) Save texts, emails, letters, any record of emotional abuse.

These suggestions are all offered in the event that you want to start thinking about how you can end this marriage with as little damage to the children and your marital assets as possible. Evidence is leverage. Protect yourself and your kids.


----------



## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Thanks xArielle. These are all good suggestions but it's never as clear cut in real life as I make it look in my analysis. The lady has a lot of problems and I'm not looking to dump her after 10+ years but she's forcing my hand. I have some recordings and they made me sick to replay so I forgave her and deleted them. None of this stuff rises to the level of CPS involvement, it's just very unfortunate. Since it looks like she's going to file for divorce I am planning the strategy I need to get what I want from the proceedings. I'm not looking to separate my children from their mother, no matter what sins she may have committed. I am looking to get leverage over the division of assets since much of what we have is a gift from me and I'm feeling more betrayed than generous at the moment.


----------

