# Hello! My Story/Blog Spot!



## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Hey folks,

I am currently going through a Separation/Divorce. This is not what I want at all, but it is what it is. 

I have been married about 4 years and I seemed to marry someone who I probably I had no business marrying, aka I didn't know I married a runner. 

I have known her since I was 12, we didn't start dating until we were in a mid 20's. We had a ton of fun early on, but then the problems started to arise. The last time that we had fun together was back in 2008 and that was the year that we decided to try and conceive a child together. Fast forward to 2009 and with no pregnancy we started to think there was a problem so we both got checked out. Come to find out, I have a low sperm count and she has POS.

This is when we started living in the land of "if". This land is the land of whether or not you are going to be parents or not and it literally gutted our entire relationship from us. We decided to try IVF, which consisted of daily shots, and daily Ultrasounds, which is a hell of a way to live being a woman. Later, we found out that the wife needed to have a leep procedure before we could proceed. Another road block, another hurdle. We made it through that and it was time to try and have a child. It is now 2010. 

So, on our first attempt we got pregnant and we had a beautiful baby girl that was born Feb, 2011. We got everything that we had been working toward. We set everything up so well, but we forgot one important thing along the way. 

Our relationship....

After three years of trying to have a child and being married for 4 my wife no longer is in love with me and feels that we do not connect. That I do not get her, like other people from her past. She wants to divorce and we have now been separated about a month. She feels like I have neglected her during the IVF because I was in school during that time and working during the day just to advance in my career. We decided that she did not have to work during the IVF because I make more than enough to support our family. We have went to MC and it generally takes two to work on a relationship, but she has completely checked out. She wants the divorce and I have accepted my fate. 

I feel guilty, down, unsure, lost, cloudy..... the usual when you are morning the loss of a relationship. I am really pissed because now I have a one year old daughter that I feel is getting completely hosed from all of this. She didn't ask for this, but she sure is stuck in the damn middle of it. The STBXW and I are communicating fairly well, with some heated moments from time to time, but I have lost all the will to fight. I have fought for our marriage for about 6 months and nothing hurts more than trying when the other person does absolutely nothing in return. It is like sticking your hand in fire, how many times are you going to do it over and over again until you learn? Well I learned and I stopped. 

I am 31 and I feel like I just blew my one shot at having the family that I always dreamed about, even though I am not the one initiating this. I made a choice in a person, I took a leap of faith, I followed my heart, and it brought me to an absolute living hell. 

To be cont.....


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Cont....

My wife is the type of person that is all flight when things get hard. She has told me that she has felt this way during the beginning stages of IVF. What really gets me is why she should go through with having a child with me only to want to divorce me 6 months after the child was born. I can not fathom the thought of this and it is something that I must not dwell on. 

My wife was the youngest of three, she had a pretty terrible up bringing. Her mother played favorites, and her father worked/drank all of the time. There has been neglect throughout her entire existence with her family and at the age of 17 she ran away from the home life she so much hated. Her brother would literally beat on her even at later ages of 16-17 and the mother never stepped in. This is really neither here nor there, but it paints a picture as to what I have been dealing with. There are many unresolved issues from her past, that I did see, but figured she had worked them out. However, when she ran away from home she actually ran up to where her brother was going to college, unable to find him, some other college guys took her in, drugged her, and raped her. I knew all this prior to marriage, but I literally love this girl and she seems to not have any issues with what happened. I feel terrible for the life that she has had, and I want to take care of her the rest of her life, but all she knows is chaos and literally is bringing me into her world...

My stbxw gets over whelmed easily, she is a great mom, but multi tasking just isn't in her glue. When it hails, weather bad, etc, she cries, she scared, and she looks to me as a father figure. She treats me as a father figure and to this day still comes to me when she is hungry. She even cried the other night because I cooked for myself and didn't include her. Now, some may think that this is from the separation that she wants, but it is not just that, it has always been like this. I unfortunately have never known this relationship to be an equal endeavor of people working together because I enabled this the entire time. I have been hit, slapped, kicked, punched, and called about every negative thing you can imagine. 

That comes to me.... I am, for all intents and purposes, a damn rug sweeper. I am terrible with having a spine, I am terrible for standing up for myself, and I absolutely crumble when people yell and scream at me. When we would ever have a disagree, I would yield. If I pushed, she wanted to get divorced. I had no voice because she deals in black and white, ultimatums, and the fear of losing her made be keep things in that I should of been able to voice. I crave physical touch and the only time I was able to get that would be through the sex we had about once a week, that I would always have to ask for. I don't even want sex, just a hug and a kiss (Which she dislikes doing) from time to time. But that wasn't her thing after a while so I stopped expecting it and put it under the rug. This all started about two years in, the time the infatuation begins to wane and the relationship begins to need work in order to survive. You tend to however, learn from your spouse on how to act and how to be in the relationship and the boundaries that are given. I learned that from her and now since I didn't do those things I was punished.

My father has a short temper, to short... My mother is a rug sweeper, my father is the screamer. I have heard him yelling my entire life and hated him for that so I guess in the end of things I took what my mother does... Ignore it. This has caused me to have a terrible confrontations skills, but again it is hard to argue when instantly you are given an ultimatum. 

I have not been a man for a long time, I have not been my own person for a long time, all I know now is I have a wonderful daughter and a wife that hates me. By doing everything that she wanted, letting her stay home, getting her a home, marrying her, I have failed her as a man. The person she was attracted to was a fun loving guy, who was carefree and fun to be around, but the guy she has now is broken, stressed, and beaten and does not know which end is up now. 

I know now though, that this woman was not the person I needed to marry. I rushed into things because she wanted to marry or leave, which in itself is just dumb, but when you are in love with someone and you do not want to lose them we are able to look past these things. She has told me so many things, the good old ILYBINILWY, that her X's "got her" and I don't, we don't connect, and flat out I am done with you. Thank you drive through...

I have heard this for about a year and a half now, I listen, I try to fix things, but you know how it goes the harder you try the more you push people away. So here I am sleeping in the basement, she gets the bedroom and we are going to be doing a divorce as soon as the house sells.

Here is the plan,

I want to see my daughter as much as possible, I love her to pieces and want to be the best father I can be. To suffice this we have spoken about doing the divorce in phases.

Phase 1: Buy a duplex, we each live on one side. This might sound crazy, but it gives me peace knowing that I am able to see my daughter everyday for now until her schooling starts. Now, issues may come, like when the stbxw starts dating, but I am so far disconnected that I do not care if she dates. It will all be worth it to me to see my daughter. 

During the phase we have agreed upon not bring our new "endeavors" around the daughter until a time that it becomes serious. If this is not followed through it will be a deal breaker and courts will be involved. 

I am going to pay for the entire living expenses of both places, which actually saves me money instead of trying to pay for two, because the stbxw has been out of work for about three years now and alimony and child support will be brought to the table other wise, which I can fight, but why fight it and spend more money than it will cost you anyway. After a time of 3-4 years, when the daughter starts school, the stbxw will start her back in her career. 

My question to you all, even though I have rambled a bunch, is doing this divorce uncontested allowing my stbxw to literally not have to change a thing, to still not work, but my daughter's life will be the least unaffected this way, am I giving up to much? Am I again sweeping this under the rug? I feel good with the plan, I do not feel like my boundaries are being crossed, because this is what is best for my daughters life to have us both in it for her at this time whenever she needs us.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

The Separation

I forgot the most important part of the story!

It started as they all do, she needed some space, nothing more, nothing less, just was tired of me always being there... Sorry we were married.... Sorry you disowned your entire friend base.... I never asked her to do that, she chose me and neglected her friendships. I always told her to go out, she never listened. 

It was gradual, she wanted the walk in closet to herself. I obliged, it is a closet after all and I moved to the other bedroom. Just my clothes. She loved having her own closet, she was happy, I was happy. 

Then she started to say things like she was unable to tell me everything that was on her mind because of the way I would react to it. Like how she contacted her X to show him pictures of our child, or how she missed talking with another X because she knew I wasn't mature enough to handle those conversations. All the while telling me how she connected with these people unlike the way she connects to me. I became extremely uneasy anytime these guys would be brought up. Not sure how most guys would react, but I think anyone in their right mind would not like to talk about these things and to be told that your spouse cant "open up" and "be honest" with you just seems to miss the mark a bit...

After the above conversation, I began to notice things... the gut feeling began to take over. I noticed she never left her phone on the table anymore, it was always by her side. When I would get up and walk by her she would turn the screen. I noticed she was on Facebook a ton, which she was completely against me having one, but now she had one... I brushed this under the rug, shrugged it off, and decided she hasn't done anything to betray my trust so far, let it go.

Then the body pillow came, the wall in the bed room. The yelling at me for snoring and not being able to sleep. So she asked me to sleep in the other bedroom during the week.. I obliged.. The baby had been getting her up, we all need sleep I rationalized. I even got up until about 4am most nights, even when I had to work the next day to help her out and when I get home, still to this day, I take over until bed time and she will either leave or sleep. I think she has given my daughter 6 bathes??

Anyway, back on point...

I get up one morning and she says she thinks we are to much like brother and sister, and more of the ILUBNILWU and she wants to separate. I tell her we are going to MC first, she agrees, but says she want to divorce and maybe this will help us work through the issues that arise. I thought, hell maybe MC will help, maybe they will show her the error in her ways, but the error was in my ways, I am simply not what she wants anymore. The error was it takes two for MC to work. I went to MC cried as I heard her say things like , we don't connect, she can't stand my smell, (I don't stink, its a pheromone thing), and that she loved the past BF's differently then the way she feels for me. One in particular...

More later......


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## accept (Dec 1, 2011)

I cant agree with you. You seem obsessed for doing the right thing for your daughter. So you should be but you should really ask advice if it is the best for her. I would never advice living together with an ex which you intend to do. It wont do your daughter any good. Your marriage sounds like its finished, dont blame yourself so much, and dont think you have to make it so easy for your wife.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Cont.. The Separation..


She has an ex, from when she was in her early 20's. Someone I think she never really got over. Someone she has always been drawn to contact. Someone she ran to when she was dealing with IVF to cry to, instead of me, because I was in school, which lead her to feeling neglected.


She still won't admit that she is seeing someone. The signs all point to yes, and I am no idiot. I have only asked twice and refuse to ask again, because we are separated and I guess that means people can do whatever they choose to do. All I know, is now she is leaving three to four days a week, staying gone for for 24+ hour periods. Dressing nice, wearing tons of makeup she never wore before, just being different. Someone I do not know.. I noticed miles are the car are flying by, I noticed gas going from full to empty, and I know this guy lives an hour or so away and I know she has ran back to him and caused a wake of destruction in her quest for true romance..

Its obvious, but alas I do not care. It is a weird feeling letting someone go and focusing upon you and your daughter. Separating emotions for the better good. It is what it is I guess.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

accept said:


> I cant agree with you. You seem obsessed for doing the right thing for your daughter. So you should be but you should really ask advice if it is the best for her. I would never advice living together with an ex which you intend to do. It wont do your daughter any good. Your marriage sounds like its finished, dont blame yourself so much, and dont think you have to make it so easy for your wife.



Here are my issues with that.... 

-Daughter didn't ask to be in this world, we had to go through a lot to get her here. Her life is more important in these up coming years than my own. I know my daughter is not my entire life, but she is in fact a huge part of my life and happiness.

- Not seeing my daughter daily, not seeing her to bed, will honestly break me. The pain from that will be worse than any guy my stbxw brings home. 

- I do not want my daughter in day care at this point in time. The less she has to change through this the better and she stays at home with Momma now so I really do not want to change that.

- We will not be living under the same roof. Well yeah the same roof, but it would be two separate living quarters. We will for all intents and purposes be neighbors. I can not afford two places and this financially is the most sound option.

- I can deal with seeing my wife with someone else and I believe that she can with me as well in the future. This will just be temporary and when we move out eventually to get our own places, which again will be close to one another, I can either rent the place out or sell it and get all the investment back. 

- I am not obsessed with doing what is right, it is just the right thing to do..


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## accept (Dec 1, 2011)

I must say I have a different attitude not at all popular on here.
If you are satisfied that your wife can look after your daughter properly then so be it. Both of you being there when youre not 'married' wont do her any good.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

*Feb, 23rd, 2012*

Had an ok day yesterday all considering. The STBXW and I spoke some on the post divorce, hashing out more of the details. I can tell I am healing because I can actually talk to her without breaking down in tears and not becoming an emotional wreck. 

I just can not believe sometimes that the person sitting across the room is someone that I was actually attracted to at one time before all of this started. I honestly can not see why I I fell in love with her at this point, but I digress that is probably from the moving on and all the pain she has created in my world. 

I do not want resentment, I want indifference. I do not want to be angry and I want to keep everything as amicable as possible for all parties involved. The court systems are out of control with the expenses and I believe that two grown adults can come together and tackle something as emotional as divorce. Just as long as everyone is level headed. 

I hope I can do this..... It is hard to not get mad sometimes..


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

*Feb 24th, 2012*

My daughter turns one this Saturday. We are having a birthday party for her and doing my family first than the stbxw. I wish the elephant wouldn't be in the room and I wish this occasion could be as special as it truely can be. I have been praying to have the strength to endure during the party and actually give my daughter the best first birthday that I can capable of.

I really hate dreading my daughters first birthday. Puts me in a really bad place... Pray for me.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

So this weekend I had a DDAY, which just happened to be on my daughters 1st birthday.

She let me know all about her new boyfriend, who happens to be her X from before and how much happier she is with him than me. She then proceeded to tell me that is happened post separation, but I know that is not the case. 

I am seeing everything with a new light. I see her as a liar and she is hurting me sooo much. The mind movies have started and I know now that a duplex is off of the table. She let me know how bad of a lover I am and let me know that I am not a man. 

She has been saying that I am to emotional to handle this like an adult and that she feels like she is married to a woman because of how upset I am. I feel like a failure, I feel gross, and I feel like I am not good enough.. She has completely made me feel inadequate as a man. I need to stop letting her have this control, but it is hard when the person you thought you loved and the person you have feelings for starts to say the meanest things..... I have no escape either because we are in the same house. She was gone all day yesterday and she was sure to let me know that she was going to her boyfriends... It really hurts being left in the wake of other peoples choices...

I need help.... I need out, I love living in a no-fault state.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

We have been going over details of how to split my daughter up and how much money I am going to have to pay.

We are most likely going to do Monday, Tues, Wed, then thurs, fri, sat, and rotating Sunday.

My first question with you all with children, what do you all do?


Having a hard time sleeping, knowing when she leaves she is running off to another man, and the venom she has been spitting has me questioning whether or not I was a terrible person. I know she is just projecting and making her entire affair validated in her head, but still, when someone you still care for greatly says things to you, you tend to still listen to them when you know it is wrong to.

I know I was a good husband. We made it so she didn't have to work and stay home with the child, I got her the house she wanted, I built this entire life for her that she pushed for and once we finally have the daughter, that took three years to have, she ups and runs to another mans arms from her past. 

Not sure why I wasn't enough, not sure what else I could have done, but I know now there is nothing else I can possibly do to save this marriage.... and it hurts like hell.. So I will put a smile on my face, get the house sold, split my time with my daughter, give my stbxw $800 a month and figure out how the hell to live again. 

FML


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

STBXW finally started to see that Child Support and Maintenance are not going to be enough through her parents today.

They pretty much told her people are not going to rent to her without a job.. All this really means now though is that it just increases the chances on moving in with the other guy. I told her today if she did that, as a concerned father, that is was absolutely nuts moving in with her X, well now Boyfriend.. 

Can not wait to deal/grieve when my daughter is around those two. The Home Wrecker and the Wayward Wife. What a great thing for my daughter to see. Can not wait till they break up and she gets to see how to be in a great relationship in the future. 

I have to find someone so I can show her what a relationship is suppose to be. I do not want her to be like her mother. My stbxw does not know how to love. She learned that from her parents... Everyday I see it more and more.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

I love laying on the couch at night taking care of my daughter while my wife is out with her new man and her new life..

Makes me sick.

She is in such a fog right now that it is scary. She has no idea the consequences for her choices. She still speaks to me like we are in a relationship sometimes. I ignore her and walk away, but then she will ask why I am being like that.

I respond

"I do not really have anything to say to you anymore."

She really does not get what a separation/divorce is! 

I hate that there is another man. Really puts a damper on that good old self-esteem. 

I wish I was enough sometimes.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Had a hard day this weekend. Was another bday party for my daughter with all of the STBXW's family. 

Half of them know, the other do not.

Some asked when we were moving and where to! 

Some asked when we were planning on having more children!

Making golf plans this summer with my brother-in-law that will never come to fruit.

Was just a day of being fake. Was exhausting.

We are putting the house for sale, but the STBXW is getting over-whelmed so naturally it gets punted to me. I will take care of it so I can get the hell out of there. I am slowly losing my sanity with her adultery being so in my face with her coming and going to see him.

I started going back to church again, exercising has been a hit or miss thing. Sometimes I am just so down I can not do it.

Anyway, See ya


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Can you ask her not to rub her affair in your face and that you are disgusted by her actions?


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Can you ask her not to rub her affair in your face and that you are disgusted by her actions?


My STBXW doesn't have a filter. She is a huge word vomit type. Comes from never being heard as a child. She is an extremely emotional person to a point of near insanity sometimes, which causes her to fight dirty. 

There really is no way to shake it I think. I asked her to not talk about him to me anymore, I asked her to please be respectful, but the cat is out of the bag and I live there. I see her dressed up, I see the intimate shower wash when I shower, I see her when she comes home late at night to get the baby monitor, I just see everything now. Not really sure how she can keep it from me because when she leaves now I know from the way she is dressed, smells, where she is going.

I have told her that she disgusts me and have told her that it really really hurts my inner being, but alas she is in the fog and thinking that she has all the answers through this relationship.

I am just kinda stuck and the only way out is to sell the house. 
Really just need to monitor how I am doing day to day. This is still fresh though, only found out 100% a week ago. Prob just going through the motion.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Learned today what separation is.

The day that we decided the marriage was over.

That is good, because we have been separated a few months now. In Illinois you have to wait 6 months.

Doing this uncontested is nice, just have to swallow the emotions from time to time. 

Just feel a bit better because I am not going to be trapped in this nonsense for as long as I imagined.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

I have had a few decent days in a row. Feels a little bit like letting go. 

I am a little afraid of it, but I am feeling a little bit more normal the last few days. I know it will not last forever, but I have it now and I am going to hold on to it as long as I can.

We are going to still do the divorced uncontested.
We have agreed to the following.

750 a month for support

Three day rotation with daughter with a rotating 4th day. (Joint Custody)

We are not allowed to take daughter more than 15-20 minutes from on another. (Living arrangement)

Whomever pays insurance, gets to claim daughter on Taxes (Me)

Money is split, and assets I do not care about enough to fight over anything.


I dunno much else to worry about, does anyone have anything that I am be missing? I am at peace with this and we are going to use legal zoom to get all of the paperwork pushed through.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Another day down.

One day closer to being happy again.

Been alight today. The blues won! Had a great day with my daughter. 

Putting the house for sale tomorrow. Meeting with the real estate lady. I pray daily that this house sells fast. Would be hectic, but it would be a huge step to getting all of this over with. 

I didn't want this, but there is no going back now. Anything that can happen to get me past all of this the better.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Have you started dating again?


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Have you started dating again?



No, I have only been separated for about three months. I honestly can not even fathom dating someone else, being still emotionally in love with my stbxw. 

I want to give someone a fair shake and lord do I know that I couldn't be with anyone else currently.

I also am of the mindset that I am still married and will not date anyone until the D is finalized. Call it pride or whatever, I just would feel like I am cheating, even though the STBXW is currently deep into a relationship.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Well, she is out with her new man and her new life tonight. Won't be home till the morning. I have got to get over this, I just do not know how to even comprehend this.

I am definitely accepting it, but when an affair is so blatantly in your face all of the time it absolutely sucks the air out of my lungs.

I love trying to go to sleep at night, knowing full well what is going on with another man. My daughter deserves better than this.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Well,

The house went for sale and we already got an offer one day later of what we are asking. They are in love with our house.

Yeah, I am too. 

If this house goes, it will be one of the last links I have in order to move to divorce. 

Trying not to look back, trying to accept that this life that I had is slowly slipping away. That the memories from this house will be just that, memories. There is no future here. 

Realizing that when the house sells that I am going to be not seeing my wonderful daughter everyday. There is nothing good that comes from this. Nothing at all.

I lose when I win.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Just finished up working out. 

Was a good one. I have been angry all day and the STBXW left to go see him. Oh well.

I am struggling with the feeling of not having control over my life. It is not fun having to change everything because of someone's choice. Not really sure how to wrap my head around that, but when you marry someone you truly put your trust and faith in someone else to take care of your feelings and when they don't the loss we feel is ridiculous because we never expected the person we love and adore to do these things to us. 

This scares the hell out of me to a point where I will have issues trusting someone fully in the future. At least that is how I feel now. I guess that is just a sign that I am not ready yet.

Just lonely I guess, and SHE gets to have those needs met while going through this. I swear I am losing everything and she is gaining everything.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

> I am divorcing [a BPDer]. I know her childhood caused this and I know how a BDP'er makes you feel completely insane.(3/12/12 post.)


Traggy, I agree that the behaviors you describe -- verbal and physical abuse, temper tantrums, blame-shifting, lack of empathy, easily triggered anger, and black-white thinking -- are classic traits of BPD. I therefore am so glad to see you changed your mind about the duplex. If your W is a BPDer, you will be seeing a level of vindictiveness and meanness that you did not think she was capable of. My BPDer exW, for example, had me arrested and thrown into jail for "brutalizing her" at the end of our living together for 15 years.

I strongly recommend you start participating (or at least lurking) in the "Leaving a BPDer" and "Raising a Child with One Parent with BPD" boards at BPDfamily.com. Those are two of the 8 message boards you will find at that large forum targeted to the spouses and family members of BPDers. 

I also recommend you read _Splitting: Protecting Yourself when Divorcing a Borderline or Narcissist_. Released 7 months ago, it was written by the same author of the best selling BPD book (_Stop Walking on Eggshells.)_

If you would like to read about my experiences with my BPDer exW -- and those of Maybe with his angry, abusive W -- please read my post in Maybe's thread at My list of hell!. If that discussion rings a bell, I would be happy to discuss it with you and point you to other excellent online resources about BPD traits. Take care, Traggy.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Uptown said:


> Traggy, I agree that the behaviors you describe -- verbal and physical abuse, temper tantrums, blame-shifting, lack of empathy, easily triggered anger, and black-white thinking -- are classic traits of BPD. I therefore am so glad to see you changed your mind about the duplex. If your W is a BPDer, you will be seeing a level of vindictiveness and meanness that you did not think she was capable of. My BPDer exW, for example, had me arrested and thrown into jail for "brutalizing her" at the end of our living together for 15 years.
> 
> I strongly recommend you start participating (or at least lurking) in the "Leaving a BPDer" and "Raising a Child with One Parent with BPD" boards at BPDfamily.com. Those are two of the 8 message boards you will find at that large forum targeted to the spouses and family members of BPDers.
> 
> ...


Already read it. I am getting those books you recommended because I know that she unfortunately is a BPD'er. Thank you for the site's definitely something I need to read because I worry that my daughter is going to eventually become all black to my wife and when she gets older and she will turn her back on her as well. Not sure if that is the case with a parent with BPD, but I worry greatly that my daughter will pick up this unfortunate disorder.

I am not trying to find an answer to why she left, but she hits all the traits to a tee. It almost scares me how accurate that it describes her.

I have been walking on egg shells this entire marriage trying to make her happy. The resentment that she holds is unbelievable. I am not been myself for a long long time.

I gave all I had and in the end it wasn't enough, because it was never enough. 

She wanted to move in
She wanted to get married immediately
She wanted to get a house
She wanted a baby

She got all the things that she thought would make her happy, but now she is just left with no more goals and her unhappy self so she found someone else that is her knight in shining armor. 

I wish I could help her, but I know I can not.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Last Night was blah,

My STBXW told her brother last night what is going on. He is one of the very few that has a good head on his shoulders and will speak his mind.

They spoke for two hours and it really effected her. They spoke about her childhood, being neglected, abused, etc. They spoke about her being raped. They spoke about her anger and issues that they both have.

I came upstairs and ran into her and I could tell she was shaken. I asked... I shouldn't have, but I did. 

"Are you ok"

I don't like seeing her upset and I can almost sense it from all of the times she has been upset in the past. I can see it in her eyes.

She rambled a bit, but at the end she made a statement that shattered me.

"Maybe its me, maybe I have issues in relationships from my dad never being home. From being neglected. Maybe I will never have a good relationship because I expect this grand tv type thing"

She turned over a leaf. Even though it was a small one, but she might just see a problem in herself and that is the first step. 

Later that night, her brother calls me at 1am. He wants to talk, so I had to sneak out of the house because I know if she knew I was talking to him she would flip her lid. 

I told him everything. He was pissed and shocked. He said that she painted me to be a villain. A terrible husband that neglected her and did not do my duties as a man. He knew better though, because the STBXW forgets that he knows her even better than I do. He knows me too.

I told him there are definitely things I could do to improve, but those things do not constitute divorce. They are only means to validate her cheating. 

We spoke about her childhood, her rape, her self medication, her anger. I told him she needs help. From the bottom of my heart, even if this marriage ends, watch her closely because she needs help. 

He knows there is nothing that we can do, but to pray and put it in gods hands. God is the only one who can help my stbxw and she has forsaken him. She is searching for happiness and she will always be searching because she never will truly be happy. 

I was asked if there is anything that could change in order for us to reconcile.

I said if she accepted god in her life and went to therapy I would try. I said try though, there is nothing I can guarantee. I do not have any hope for R, but I do have a little hope for her now. God I wish I could help her.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Traggy said:


> She turned over a leaf. Even though it was a small one, but she might just see a problem in herself and that is the first step.


Traggy, what you witnessed is called "moments of clarity." Unlike narcissists, BPDers are so unstable that they generally have a vague awareness that the self image they project is fake. They know that something is wrong even though they rarely have the self awareness and ego strength to be willing to admit it and suffer the painful shame they feel. 

They nonetheless will occasionally get moments of clarity where you can actually sit down with them and they will calmly admit to a whole list of faults. With my exW, for example, that happened maybe 5 or 6 times in 15 years. Typically, it doesn't last long and, no matter what they agree to during that brief period, they nearly always will disavow it later.

Of course, I hope this is not the case with your W. I just don't want you to get your hopes up too much, Traggy. Even if she does agree to stay in therapy to prevent you from leaving, it will be _very difficult_ to determine whether she is making any real progress. Unstable people are always greatly improving every three weeks in the same way that smokers are always quitting.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Thank you for the response Uptown.

This is so overwhelming. I am her husband and even though I have literally been beaten down I feel a great urge to save this marriage and save her and I know that these feelings are nothing more than a case of denial.

She has to be the one to change, I can not do this. All I can do is focus on my daughter, my faith, and myself. It is all I have left.

I have to let her go, but I just feel like I am giving up on her.

How did you deal with that?


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Traggy said:


> I have to let her go, but I just feel like I am giving up on her. How did you deal with that?


Traggy, like you, the first thing I did after stumbling upon BPD information was to read everything I could find for several weeks. That helped a LOT, so I am encouraging you to do the same. Acquiring an intellectual understanding of what happened, however, is the EASY part. 

What is much harder is convincing your "inner child" that your new-found knowledge is true. Because I had been in a 15 year relationship, it took me at least a year (and perhaps two) to bring my child's feelings into alignment with my adult's understanding. After just two weeks of intense reading on the Internet, I had a pretty good understanding of what I needed to do to get out of the toxic relationship and why I needed to do it.

Yet, because my child was over a year behind my adult, the child sabotaged my every effort to break away. It hindered me with nagging doubts, terrible guilt, and a strong feeling of obligation. It kept telling me that the theory floating around in the adult part of my mind was an insufficient basis on which to wholly abandon a loved one. Even after I had left her, I still refused to go No Contact for eight more months, at which point I finally realized she is incapable of ever being my friend.

My adult dragged my child -- with him kicking and screaming every inch of the way -- to that shocking truth. How do you accomplish that? How do you teach a child -- who had felt for forty years she was my best friend -- that she never had that capability?

To bring the child and adult into alignment, what helped me _a little_ was talking about my new found knowledge to anyone who would listen. Well, that was good for a week. Then their eyes glazed over. So what helped _the most_ was coming to forums like TAM and BPDfamily, where I could discuss it with people who had been there, done that. Significantly, that helped my mind to associate feelings with each of the intellectual thoughts. That has to be done because the child learns from emotional experiences -- not from logic.

Writing and talking will help you internalize the information, turning knowledge into wisdom -- by connecting thoughts to feelings. If you doubt that, simply ask any university professor about its effectiveness. They will quickly tell you they never had an intuitive, deep-level understanding of their subject matter until they had to teach it to someone else -- or had to write it down very precisely when doing research. Hence, what I found most helpful, Traggy, is talking about it to anyone who listens and writing about it to anyone who writes back.

For all human beings, it seems true that the inner child makes at least 90% (if not 95%) of the important decisions. I was 50 years old before I understood that simple notion. And it took me 12 years to do it.

What happened was that, for 12 years, I took my bipolar foster son to a weekly family group meeting with the psychologist who was treating him. Whenever the psychologist challenged me on something, I always had an elaborate well-thought-out explanation for doing whatever I had chosen to do. Never mind that what I had chosen was not working with my foster son and never mind that I kept repeating the same pattern year after year.

The psychologist was always greatly amused by my explanations. He would laugh and point out, in his kindly fashion, that my elaborate rationalizations could not disguise the fact that my inner child -- not my adult -- was calling all the shots, making nearly all the decisions. In any contest between the adult and child, he claimed, the child would almost always win. But I just could not swallow that concept.

Yet, after twelve years of his gentle rebukes, it dawned on me one night -- right as I was about to drift into sleep -- why he had to be right. My inner child, I suddenly realized, is the sole judge of what is fun and what is not fun. That decision is all powerful. The adult part of my mind will nearly always conclude that it makes no sense -- indeed, would be preposterous -- to do something, go somewhere, or date someone I do not enjoy. My adult logic thus nearly always has to end up in the lap of my inner child.

This is why, as I noted above, learning about my exW's problem (BPD) and my problem (codependency) is the easy part. What is difficult is internalizing that understanding, i.e., transforming knowledge into wisdom, which requires that my feelings catch up with my intellectual thoughts.

Simply stated, I must persuade my child that my adult views of my ex's illness and my own codependency are correct -- an objective I mostly attained after working on it for over a year. Had I failed in that effort, I would have remained stuck in a destructive pattern, repeating my past mistakes over and over, because my child will be calling nearly all the shots.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Thank you Uptown again.

Those are very wise words. I get what you are saying and I know that this will take a great amount of time.

I guess I am lucky that my stbxw is making the choice for me. I know that I would have never left this situation. I would always stand by her side. I like to think now that I would not accept her back, but there is always room in my heart for forgiveness, but with major changes.

Last night, her brother called me again and we spoke for about an hour. He is worried almost as sick as I am it really feels good to have someone with EMPATHY express it to you. The understanding of what I am going through and the validation of me not being crazy again is a good thing, but hard to swallow. The more I get validated in my thoughts about my wife, the more that I begin to pity her and want to seek out help for her more. 

Back to the conversation. He spoke to his sister, which is the stbxw sister too. I had known that she knew about the OM that she is currently seeing, but it came out that she told her about it back in December, a time when we were still intimate. I figured as much, but again when these things become a reality it stings like hell. She does not know what to do, who does really, but she knows about her being unstable and knows that I am a good guy and is extremely sad for me. She has plans to speak with the stbxw again about all of this. She also really wants to reach out to me as well. She wants me to always be apart of my nephews and nieces life. Not sure how that all works, if it even can, but it is what it is. The brother is telling her father. 

I guess what this all comes down to are the lies that I was to blind to see, or even refused to see. She is lying to everyone, Me, her family, probably even the OM. At least now she will be held to some accountability for her actions.

Both the brother and sister said to me something that absolutely crushed me last night. They both said that I should have full custody of my daughter and that they would take the stand for it. I could never do that, but her own blood know this is wrong, this can not be all my fault. 

So today is the day of exposing the affair to her family. The sister said she would take the fall for it. I am not sure how this all will play out, but I fully expect wrath. 

I will be kind, patient, and understanding. She is a lost soul in this world right now. Anger and pain will come out and I refuse to let my anger out when she is angry. She will not get to have an affect on me.

Had trouble sleeping, picturing her being intimate with the OM last night. The times she left to stay somewhere at her "friends" just really made me sick to my stomach. I really do not like thinking about her cheating. I hate the mind movies. Someone is literally all over the person I once had. That is my wife!!! Those two make me sick


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

> Anger and pain will come out and I refuse to let my anger out when she is angry. She will not get to have an affect on me.


Traggy, you are prudent to keep calm and NOT ACT on your anger. The anger itself, however, will be _your friend _for the next year. For caregivers like us, feeling anger gives us our only chance to leave the toxic relationship. 

Absent the anger, it is just so difficult for us to walk away from a sick loved one -- even when that is exactly what is best for us and for the BPDer spouse. As long as you stay with her -- which she will tolerate only if you continue to "validate" her false self image of being "the victim" -- you will be hurting her by preventing her from ever confronting her issues.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Uptown said:


> Traggy, you are prudent to keep calm and NOT ACT on your anger. The anger itself, however, will be _your friend _for the next year. For caregivers like us, feeling anger gives us our only chance to leave the toxic relationship.
> 
> Absent the anger, it is just so difficult for us to walk away from a sick loved one -- even when that is exactly what is best for us and for the BPDer spouse. As long as you stay with her -- which she will tolerate only if you continue to "validate" her false self image of being "the victim" -- you will be hurting her by preventing her from ever confronting her issues.


I agree with you again. The main problem is simply I am not an angry person. AT ALL. I feel more pity than anger when I think about her now. I feel sorry for her. I want her to get better. I want her to live live a non chaotic life. I want her to have happiness and find out who she really is. I want her to hug her inner child and tell her that it will all be better now. When I cope I generally always miss the anger stage. It just isn't in me. Anger does nothing for me. I guess I should of said argue back at her. Validate my reasons. I am done with that.

From now on she gets the "You are right." "Absolutely." and "Definitely" I will be agreeable to everything she says. (Outside of the divorce of course, I will definitely be dropping some differing opinions on her about things)

I can want all of these things, but the change has to come from the person not me. I know this. The ONLY way I would take her back would be for her to go to therapy. To a doctor. To someone who can diagnose her. To someone who can help her. Problem is, with BPD, they have to see it themselves first.
I will divorce her if that is where it leads, but I will not turn her away from help. Be it letting her parents know to watch her closely. Be it anything to help my dear friend. I love her to much, she is the mother of my daughter. She is my family.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> The ONLY way I would take her back would be for her to go to therapy.



There in lies your problem. Sometimes you just have to let go. You are enabling her behaviour. You are trying to fix her. Some kind of white knight syndrome.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Been a few days. I had a ruff weekend. More of the same. I am at home while she is out with the new love of her life. More boring feeling sorry for myself. Going to stop writing about it.

My daughter is doing great. We are getting another offer on the house and this ball of divorce will begin to roll down the hill. Moving on can finally be implemented.

I have reached out to god and my relationship with him has grown in a way never before. I am attending church and have joined a bible study group. I believe that a marriage without god in it leads to these events that have transpired in my life.

My faith has lifted me up. I recommend some of you to turn to god and give your problems to him. Let him write the story or your life and stop trying to write your own. 

We will all get what we need. 

I just pray for each and every one of you to find your little piece of happiness. 

God Bless


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Traggy, thanks so much for your update. I'm glad to hear your daughter is still doing well in the midst of the turmoil in your life. And I'm glad you are finding comfort from your church community and from attending the bible study group. Take care, Traggy.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Wow,

What a weird day I have had. 

Last night the wife came home from the OM house and said she wanted to talk about life tomorrow evening.

So tonight we talk.

She does not want to get divorced. She see's how much happier I am. She doesn't even know the person I am anymore. 

I guess I am shining and little bit because I am happy and I have let go. I have accepted everything that life has given me. I focused in on me, my faith, and my daughter and have not looked back.

She is starting to crack. The house is probably going to sell and the realization of her terrible choices and the effects on our daughter and family are beginning to set in. The fog is starting to dissipate.

She offered me this.

We can live together and not divorce, but we have separate bedrooms. She will leave the OM. We will stay together for our daughter. She then went on to try and tell me in so many words if I keep acting the way I do and keep at it there is a chance for us.

Essentially, living how we are now.

Wow. What an irrational cake eating idea that is. I responded and stuck to my guns.

Remorse, 100% commitment to US, Therapy (Psychiatric), accepting god.

I told her I want her heart, not half of it, not most of it. ALL OF IT. I want her to look to me for her love. 

Irrational. 

Gee, lets just leave the OM so we can have our family back and I get to stay with you while you will always be wondering what could of been with him with your eye on the door. Sounds like a great deal. 

I told her she needs to get all of this out of her system. I told her that what she is offering is not a marriage. I told her she needs to not be "in love" with someone else.

She said I am telling you I do not want to divorce, so if we divorce it is your choice. I love BPD. 

The thing is all I do now is pray she finds god. I am beginning to pity her. She is so lost and the guilt from her choices and regret are starting to surface. 

I am not a prideful man. I forgive freely. I will not relent on what I need for reconciliation however and I have a clear conscious for divorce. I will divorce her if she does not change because the only way to move forward together is to revamp the entire system. To start a new with god.

I love my new life. I love my wife. I love my daughter. I expect nothing anymore and it is truly the most uplifting feeling.

She knows where I stand and I am focusing in on divorce. I am proud of myself for not caving and compromising. 

She knows where I stand.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

She had a fight with him I guess. OM did not turn out to be Mr.Wonderful after all..He must have got some taste of her BPD.

Funny thing is how she considered that you will take her back after walking all over you.

Even if she says it over, you should think really hard if you want to take her back at all. She cannot have random flings , then apologize and resume the marriage like it was before. If you take her back, whats to say that she won't do it again. What promise can she give you that she won't do it all over again. 

Your wife is a nutcase.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Traggy said:


> I responded and stuck to my guns.


Way to go. TRAGGY IS "THE MAN"!


> She said I am telling you I do not want to divorce, so if we divorce it is your choice.


When BPDers decide to abandon the marriage, it is uncommon for any of them to admit they are the ones wanting the divorce. Instead, they want to portray themselves as the abandoned victims. 

My exW, for example, ended our marriage by having me arrested and thrown into jail on a bogus charge of "brutalizing" her. Before I got in front of a judge and got released, she obtained a restraining order barring me from coming near my home for 18 months (the time it takes to obtain a divorce in this State). 

She nonetheless insisted, at the divorce hearing, that she never wanted a divorce. She repeated that absurd claim on the phone a week later. I told her, "Don't be ridiculous -- the divorce was granted pursuant to your divorce petition, not mine." (She had counter-filed for divorce after I filed and the judge found it simpler to grant it pursuant to her petition.)


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Another day, another dollar. 

Well, I guess it is an "event" week for me. My stbxw mother called me at work. I haven't much spoke to her since the divorce talk she had with her daughter and since she found out about the affair that my stbxw has partaken in.

She cried and cried and cried. She apologized for her daughter's actions. She doesn't understand it. 

I felt like I was the one consoling her. Was one of those paradox moments. I felt terrible for her. 

I dunno, it put me in a terrible mood. Brought me down a bit. I am better now, but her family is reaching out to me because they love her and me and do not know what else to do because the STBXW shuts them out if they disagree with anything that she is doing. She will do anything to avoid the pain, guilt, and suffering.

Oh well, just another day I guess.

I love you all, take care!


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Been a few days, I guess that is a sign of healing or I have all the answers that I need currently

Been feeling pretty good. I let the STBXW know once and for all that she will never see me try to save us, that is all on her now. I let her know pretty much be with the OM and I will move one with someone else. 

"Opened up the cage door"

I let her go and it felt uplifting. So, now she stayed home all weekend. Says its because I make her feel like a bad mother when she leaves. Projection much?

Church was very peculiar yesterday. It was about forgiveness with divorce mixed in. It really hit home. The pastor was telling a story about his buddy who just went through a divorce. The buddy said the following.

"I love my wife, but we just can not be married anymore"

He led it into how god divorced the people of Israel because they broke there covenant to him. 

My wife broke her covenant. 

I dunno, just speaking my mind, I am struggling with divorce. It has always been my greatest fear. Now, I am accepting it and facing my fear. 

I dunno, felt like I was being told that everything was going to be OK.

I went out and had a few drinks this weekend and played bags. Was good to get out, but I struggle with leaving my daughter still. I feel neglectful when I leave. Really really bothers me.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Traggy, thanks again for the update. Is good to hear that you are still on course and standing strong. Keep in mind that your healing will not proceed in a straight line. You will still have those bad days, where you'll feel like you are right back where you started. But you're not. Those bad days will get farther and farther apart.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Angry day.

Not sure how it got brought up, but finally got the stbxw to admit that the affair had been going on for a while. At least I have some piece of mind that I am not crazy.

Anyway, started filling out the divorce papers. Fun stuff. 

The rationalization's of a cheater are literally comical. 

This damn house needs to sell.

Oh well, I worked out for an hour and a half. The abs are starting to stick out again. I look great. I honestly mean that and it feels good to have some actual decent feelings about myself, even if they are just physical. 

Things are looking up and by up, meaning the walls of my life have come crashing down and I am removing the pieces off of me one step at a time. 

She cried tonight. Good. Poor me, poor me. Whatever. I am sick of trying to get in her mind. It isn't my mind and the more I realize that the more I can let go. 

Went to the park with the daughter today. We went down the big slide 5 times. She is one. Gleeful is the word that I will use. I adore her and am blessed to have the wonderful little princess in my life. She is all the girl I need. 

My life is changing, even though I do not want it, I think that it is ok to be ok with the way things are coming to be. I still struggle with the jealousy. The fact that someone other than me gets to enjoy the stranger in my house, but I have to hold on to the fact that this guy isn't better than me. The only thing he has to offer that I can not is that he is still new, even though he is a guy from her past. 

They can be happy with one another. With there family ruining ways. I accept it. 

It is definitely time for me.

Faith, Daughter, me. All I need. All the other stuff is a want at this point. Nothing that I need.

I miss sex though.... lol


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

SOB,

Well she came back two days ago. Said she wanted to make things work. I was open to it, made a list of things that I would expect and she couldn't agree to it.

So, last night I was discussing things with her, and it was pretty intense. She became angry and said f it, lets just divorce. 

Exactly, to hard to actually feel something so quit. 

What a bunch of BS. She said I am not a man for crying and being upset. That I am so unattractive with being insecure. That she has no remorse for what she did because she did what she did because of the way I treated her in the marriage.

She said she only wanted to stay together to try and make things work my daughter. She couldn't tell me she loved me, but she could openly tell me she loved someone else.

She blew her second chance before it even started.

I am so weak to fall into this crap again. I let her tear my heart out again. 

She in incapable of feeling the things that I need her to, because she lacks empathy, compassion, love, there is no hope.

FML


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

I told you that..I told you that....You opened your heart only to be crushed again. It is going to happen again.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

> I am so weak to fall into this crap again.


Traggy, thanks for today's update. No, you are not "weak." On the contrary, you are still on track and have your eyes wide open. It is impossible, given what you now know about her, to turn back and see her the way you used to. Instead, you will now see her as the unstable, immature woman she is. 

As I said, your healing will not proceed in a straight line. You will have short periods, like the last two days, where you will feel like you are back at step one. Don't believe that feeling! You are miles down the road, well on your way to full recovery. Those bad days will get farther and farther apart.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Traggy,

Your wife is sick. She has an incurable personality disorder. She is wired wrong, defective and unsavable.

"She aint ever gonna be right," as my grandpa would say about my mom who abandoned us. 

I know you love your wife Traggy, but part of being a man is making tough decisions, and right now the ONLY persons you should be focused on is your daughter and you. 

File for divorce now, and file for sole custody of your daughter. Quit treating this like a game of chicken. Who cares if your wife blames you for the breakup of the marriage? Everyone who knows her knows she is a nutjob. Everyone who knows you knows you are a good man. 

This sick, destructive woman is not fit to be a mother, much less a wife.


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## cantmove (Feb 20, 2012)

Sorry you're going through this. I'm miles behind you in this process but I know that you are much closer than you think to being ok. I'm still letting my stbxh be a cakeeater but everytime I allow it, the next day I feel a step closer to being detached instead of a step backwards. I think this is because while I'm allowing his cake-eating I also realize everytime how little he cares or respects me. He kisses me and goes home to call ow.(lawyer advised him not to see her during divorce) I still love him but everyday he becomes a bigger jerk than the day before. One day I'll be able to 180 his a$$. 

I know there is a silver lining for all of us.Be strong there is a wonderful loving woman in yours and your daughters horizon.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

The D is on overdrive. There is no more looking over my shoulder. I am buying her out of the house, getting her name off of it. She went looking for places to live today. We split up everything. Came up with a schedule. Finances are in order. Turning the paper work in soon, almost finished.

I was a man today. No tears, no sadness. Moving this leech out. Getting this crap out of my face. 

I want full custody more than anything. I can not get it though. I can not ask her family to go to the stand. So far, even though she has treated me like hell, she has been a good mother. Until I can prove the unfitness of her, I do not have a leg to stand on. I hate this state. I tell her everyday though, that my daughter will be able to talk one day. I tell her if she ever neglects or hurts her when I am not around it is on. Every dollar in the bank. 

I know how unstable she is, one of my goals was with the possibility with the R, that she would get into therapy. It was on my list. It was not really a set up, but more or less a back up plan. If they would have diagnosed her, and put her on treatment and the bottom fell out, I would have my proof for full custody. I know that sounds terrible.

She will not see me cry again. 

You know what though, something that really bothered me. When she came home from his house balling wanting to try to make things work. I hugged her. I felt like I was hugging my daughter, not a spouse. I imagined that moment, but when it was there happening, I really didn't feel love there. Just more or less going back to what was comfortable. I have to stop being in love with being married and having a family, because that is really what I am sad about. 

I honestly know, without a doubt, that there is no chance for R. I think I needed this to screw my head on straight. 

For her to be able to say that she has no remorse for what she has done, but rather blame, shows her true colors. For her to be able to say that I am not a man, a rock, because I am upset about her screwing someone else, literally puts the crazy train on a entire new level. 

Not sure I told you all this, but what set her off the yesterday. I asked if she had sex with him. She said no. I said, ok, I have his phone number. I am going to call him and ask him myself. I started to call him and she texted him really quickly telling him not to answer. Told me I was being immature. 

I guess she showed her hand huh... Lie lie lie.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Man I just read your story from the beginning and all I can say is OMG WTF!!! 

She constantly "slept" with the OM and had the guts to come back to ask for R... DAMN... I'll be praying for you brother.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

keko said:


> Man I just read your story from the beginning and all I can say is OMG WTF!!!
> 
> She constantly "slept" with the OM and had the guts to come back to ask for R... DAMN... I'll be praying for you brother.


Thank you keko. Welcome to my coaster!


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

lol,

Well if you can't laugh at yourself...

She told me she was going to not go see the OM anymore until the D was final. Gee... where is she at now? 

We are going to have a coming to Jesus meeting tomorrow. She is getting the boot. Di-respectful hussie.

I am glad I made the right decision and finally stood up to my boundaries.

She wants a man? Well she is about to see a side of me she has never seen before. I am officially pissed off.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Like I said before, Traggy is THE MAN! Go, Traggy!!!!


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Getting the bank accounts split and buying her out of the house.

Going to see the Mortgage company this week.

She has found a few places to live that she is going to go look at this week. Things are moving fast, but why the hell slow it down. Give her what she wants.

Easter was hard, splitting up my Daughter. I made it through though and I am still here. Just really unfortunate. 

One of these days I know I will be happy again. There are moments where I feel everything is going to be ok. I just have to keep the thoughts of her screwing someone else out of my mind. She is not mine anymore. She chose another path. Just hurts sometimes to think about. 

Anyway, will let you know how the week goes. Tasks are there to be completed.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Stuff is moving fast..

Really really fast!

Boxes are in the garage, if all goes well she will be moving out with her cheating ways within a week. 

I am excited to finally get closure. To finally be able to say goodbye. To not have her affair in my face. To be able to wake up in my house with my daughter without her bringing me down.

I really feel good. I feel like I am finally on the right path. I know this is going to hurt, but you know what? It is the type of hurt I need to feel because it is a moving on hurt, not a damn limbo hurt.

I can not believe where my life has taken me! It is hard to imagine that this is happening. I feel like I am literally being the strongest I have ever been in my life. I am getting this sick sick woman away from me.

I FINALLY GET TO MOVE ON! The next few days are going to be hectic! But it is such a beautiful thing.

Pray for me that this all goes well!


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Traggy, you and your family are in my prayers. Not that you need prayers. You are on the right track and are doing so well. God helps those that help themselves.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Bank split..... Check

STBXW paying for the rental ....... Check

Moved up mortgage company date to friday......... Check

Hell yes!


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Congrats Traggy! You're very close to achieve FREEDOM. Just think about that for a moment. All the best to you.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Movers are coming Thursday. Everything is done.

The last piece is taking the divorce classes before we can file.

Wow, hard to believe this is all happening. Happening so fast. Have not had time to process it all, but I know there are twinges of pain hiding inside of me waiting for the time to let them out.

I am going to miss my friend, my wife, my lover. Going to miss just having her there.

Finally I get to shut another chapter in my life though. I will be fine, I know it, but I will definitely have a sad spell to look forward to.

Life is strange, life is hard sometimes, but I know happiness is right around the corner for me. This all just has to get done first.

I hope this OM was worth it... RIDICULOUS


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## SRN (Mar 20, 2012)

Traggy said:


> I am going to miss my friend, my wife, my lover. Going to miss just having her there.
> 
> I hope this OM was worth it... RIDICULOUS


My thoughts exactly.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

^^^

I highly doubt it, affair's have a very very small success rate. In no time OM would be POSOM to her. Sucks but its the truth. 

On a brighter note you know it'll get better, much better actually.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Well, the blues won. I guess that is a high note.

Struggling a bit tonight, not really sure why. I know she is with him right now, twinges of pain are coming up, but I am fighting back down. I have not cried in a few days, close a few times today, but I feel that my tears are starting to run dry.

I took the daughter to my parents and went to watch the game at a friends. Her mother has been painting all day and been gone since around 8. She should be home soon, if she even comes home, unless her and the OM want to break the new place in. 

I hate pity parties, but man. I know I keep saying this, but was I that bad of a guy? She is moving to a crap town house. Her brother called me today and let me know just how crappy it is. He can not believe it. 

I can not either. 

After the daughter went to bed friday I left. I can not stand to be in the house with her. I hate leaving, but my house is in shambles with all her moving boxes and I am just tired of splitting up things. She does it with such calm and happiness that she is leaving me in her wake that I just can not fathom what I did to her for this to partake. I know she is messed up, I know the only mistake I made in this was marrying her to begin with, but how the hell can people just slam the door on a new family, a new life, being supported to be able to stay home on my back. 

How do people just quit. What the hell happened to marriage? To vows? 

I do not even know why we have marriage nowadays when divorce is an option. Marriage is forever, working loving, growing. Not four years, start a family and just say F%$K it.

Oh well, 5 more days and I get to break down and pick myself up. Just feel like I'm in a hurricane right now.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Traggy said:


> How the hell can people just slam the door on a new family, a new life? How do people just quit?


Traggy, her ability to start a new life -- as though she is simply throwing a switch in her mind -- is not a sign of her _strength_ but, rather, her _fragility_. Whereas a normal person has the strength to confront the hurt and work through the issues, a BPDer is so filled with self hatred and shame (from childhood) that she finds it far too painful and frightening to do that. Instead, her mind protects her from seeing too much of reality by projecting all sorts of evil intent and shortcomings onto you. 

As I said earlier, this projection works beautifully to protect her fragile ego because it is done subconsciously -- thus allowing her conscious mind to be fully convinced that the outrageous projections are true. In this way, she will run about slandering you with vindictive accusations -- and do so guilt-free because she consciously believes the irrational nonsense coming out of her mouth. Of course, this is why BPDers rely so heavily on projection to shelter themselves from seeing too much of reality. It is guilt-free.


> She does it with such calm and happiness that she is leaving me in her wake that I just can not fathom what I did to her for this to partake.


You likely did nothing at all to cause it. As I just explained, it does not matter WHAT you do. When a BPDer decides to leave you, they will protect their fragile egos by projecting all sorts of demonic attributes and evil intent onto you. Unlike us "Nons," BPDers are able to do this projection so easily because they have always had great difficulty with "object constancy." 

That is, a BPDer has great difficulty perceiving you as being essentially the same man from day to day. You've seen that in the way your W, in only ten seconds, can flip from adoring you to hating you. Her subconscious therefore finds it to be a cakewalk to project all sorts of bad features and thoughts onto you. It is what a BPDer does so very very well.

This ability to flip from one intense feeling about you to its polar opposite -- called "splitting" -- is why a BPDer's feelings are both intense and shallow. This is why a BPDer's feelings are said to be "a mile wide and an inch deep."


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Traggy: What Updown is saying is so true and sad. Out of all the stories here, yours is very similar to mine. I suspect my wife suffers from BDP although she hasn't been diagnosed she has almost if not all the traits. It's sad because as Uptown explain they project onto their spouses subsconsciously which makes me feel bad. Its like they dont know what they are doing. People like this are sick and need help but from all the stuff Ive read those who stay in a relationship with a BDPer end up worse then them. I personally went through a period of depression and not feeling good about myself (both things STBXW suffers from). One day she was telling me I was the only one who understood her and the next it was that I wasnt emotionally there for her and didnt care about her. 

All I can tell you is that you deserve someone better. Its hard to let go because we stubbornly hold on to the fantasy of a life without the stress and problems with these people. We wish things were different but the fact is they are not. This is what it is. Right now the most important thing is your daughter. Im being the best dad I can be to my son. Time will heal your wounds, its just a matter of time. OM will leave your wife or become her next prey.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Thank you both for your responses. Leaving someone that needs help generally brings up those good old protective traits.

I have had sometime to think and I believe what I am struggling with is the fact that I am no longer always going to be there every night to protect her and my daughter. They are going to be without my strength. I won't be there to protect them if something happens.

I think my other struggle is letting go of someone I love that needs help. Just doesn't feel right. I want her to be better, but I know I have no control on that. 

It is kinda like watching someone on fire in front of you, thrashing around, in extreme pain, and the only thing you have in your hand is gasoline. 

When a BDP'r projects you as the cause of the pain there is nothing you can do, but stand aside. I need to learn this.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Men are wired to protect. It work against us sometimes. My therapist IC told me about a guy who stayed with a BDPer for more than 10 years of abuse. He wanted to fix his marriage and not break the family at all cost. His wife was constantly having affairs and blaming him portraying him as a failure, mashed all his pride and manhood. One night after seeing his wife wasn't back home they were sleeping in different rooms at that point he got his gun and took his life. 

Not to be extreme but this is where stubbornly trying to save a marriage like this can end. The spouse ends up being abused big time and it can affect your ability to function. Our children deserve for us to stick around and be there for them. The best way to do that is to separate from these psycho girls.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Traggy said:


> I have had sometime to think and I believe what I am struggling with is the fact that I am no longer always going to be there every night to protect her and my daughter.


Yes, Traggy, the notion of walking away from a sick loved one is ANATHEMA to us caregivers. It goes against our religious beliefs, our family values, out sense of loyalty -- indeed, against every fiber of our being. After all, we grew up learning to be the fixers, not the men who walk away. Yet, that is exactly what we usually must do when we find ourselves married to a BPDer, because the only way she will tolerate our presence is if we continue to harm her by walking on eggshells, i.e., continue to be a harmful enabler.


> I think my other struggle is letting go of someone I love that needs help. ...It is kinda like watching someone on fire in front of you, thrashing around, in extreme pain, and the only thing you have in your hand is gasoline.


That's a great analogy, Traggy! Yes, that is exactly how it feels to me too. The way I've tried to explain it is that it is like standing on a boat dock, watching your loved one slowly drowning just five feet away. I extend my arm and repeatedly yell, "HONEY, GRAB MY HAND!" But she cannot do so. 

It's not that she is blind and cannot see my hand. It's not that she is deaf and cannot hear my voice. It's not that she is paralyzed and cannot raise her arm. No, it is _none_ of those things. Rather, she is incapable of trusting others and thus CANNOT BELIEVE ME.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

I am officially 4 days away.

4 more days of seeing those sad eyes.

4 more days till I will being splitting my time with my daughter.

4 more days and my reality official changes completely.

I have been able to hide behind denial, even with staying in the same house, that I would have my daughter everyday. See those big beautiful blue eyes. 

If you all would be inclined to find some time in your days to pray for my family. I would greatly appreciate it.


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

Traggy said:


> I am officially 4 days away.
> 
> 4 more days of seeing those sad eyes.
> 
> ...



You have been in my prayers.

Have peace. Be calm.

This will pass. You will make it out.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Well,

Sorry for the count down. Just want to puts some thoughts down. I want to save this and read it one day in the future and see just how out of whack I was.

Maybe even have a chuckle.

Anyway, 

3 more days! Good day today actually. Laundry, payed bills, vacuumed, cleaned a bit. Dunno, had busy hands today. Kept my mind off of things. 

Her dad came over today, was helping her move boxes. Right in front of her he says.

"I will get in touch with you and talk with you about all of this"

He likes me a lot, and knows his daughter. I wish he would get her some help, but alas that has to be her choice. He has tried countless therapy with her in the past. (Things I did not know before I married her. They could of thrown me a bone.)

Was funny though, that had to sting her a bit. Her own father reaching out to the guy she is leaving. She shrugged it off. She always says they like me more than her and she believes that.

What a ruckus this has caused. The old life is dying and the new one is starting. I am just going to be in the limbo stage a few more days. 

I think at this point things that I am missing from my STBXW is simply all physical. Cuddling, Hugging, Kissing, Sex. When I think about it though, I never really got all that anyway, so in regards to that I just miss those things... Not her. 

I am starting to come out of this all, I definitely will miss things about her, but not her. I am going to be lonely and crave to have what was once comfortable, but I am beginning to see that this is not healthy for me. She is not healthy for me. She has broken me down to a point that I do not even recognize the face in the mirror. I am starting to see myself again. Liking the way I look, feel, and interact. 

The shell I have surrounded myself with is starting to crack. I am not out of it yet, but I can tell that I am healing. I am not breaking down when I see her now, I am not wanting to beg her to stay, I am just wanting to move on. I think I have finally thrown in the towel. I can say, without a doubt now.

I NO LONGER WANT TO BE WITH THIS WOMAN.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

That's great news, Traggy! It sounds like you've finally reached a mile stone. Not the end of the road but the top of the hill. Hopefully, it will all be downhill from now, until you finish the divorce process.

Even so, as we discussed before, don't be thrown for a loop if -- two weeks from now -- you wake up in a sorry mood that makes you feel like you are back at square one. If it happens, it is only a feeling. Such days, if they ever happen again, will get farther and farther apart. They are a normal part of the healing process because it rarely proceeds in a straight line.


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## SRN (Mar 20, 2012)

Traggy said:


> I think at this point things that I am missing from my STBXW is simply all physical. Cuddling, Hugging, Kissing, Sex. When I think about it though, I never really got all that anyway, so in regards to that I just miss those things... Not her.


I'm kinda at this point too. I miss all these things, but the more I think about it, it was such a struggle to get those things from her in the past few years that its just a fantasy. And I guess it hurts that she so willingly is giving them to the OM.

Hopefully soon we'll both find women who reciprocate both our feelings and physical desires.


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

Traggy said:


> Well,
> 
> Sorry for the count down. Just want to puts some thoughts down. I want to save this and read it one day in the future and see just how out of whack I was.
> 
> ...



The bolded areas are what I feel atm. I miss the normalcy of the marriage more than my wife, especially, the new version of her that has changed over the past few years.

I have to keep reminding myself that my older version wife is long gone. I'm not in love with the newer version, but fight with myself at keeping my vows to love and cherish until death...

I fought so hard against the notion that people change, situations change, feelings change. I'm losing that battle and will lose that battle. But, I keep fighting it.

Traggy, once I get to where you are, the future will be bright.


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## proudwidaddy (Dec 26, 2011)

Jay,
I feel a lot like you and Traggy. I've realized that right now I miss more the physical intimacy of what I had, rather than actually missing my wife. I loved and cherished the old her, the new her I wouldn't want to touch with a ten foot pole. The new one cares only about herself, no one else. We all deserve to be with someone that actually wants to be with us, that will fight for us, not just leave at the drop of a hat.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

proudwidaddy said:


> Jay,
> I feel a lot like you and Traggy. I've realized that right now I miss more the physical intimacy of what I had, rather than actually missing my wife. I loved and cherished the old her, the new her I wouldn't want to touch with a ten foot pole. The new one cares only about herself, no one else. We all deserve to be with someone that actually wants to be with us, that will fight for us, not just leave at the drop of a hat.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Well, if people change, what if the new her changes back to the old her? Or a revitalized old her?

Would you be hurt that the old wife is back, but without you?


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## SRN (Mar 20, 2012)

Jayb said:


> Well, if people change, what if the new her changes back to the old her? Or a revitalized old her?
> 
> Would you be hurt that the old wife is back, but without you?


It's false to beleive that people can't change, but it's true that people can't change back. You are the sum of your experiences, so once someone changes, like our wives, they can never go back to who they were before.

Personally, I'm still really hurt that my ex did what she did. I cannot ever see her going back to the "old" her in any form. She will always be tainted.


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## proudwidaddy (Dec 26, 2011)

Honestly I think too much has happened that showed me she doesn't care about me during this process, that right now I don't think the old wife is ever coming back. Besides it doesn't matter anymore. She is so entrenched into who she is right now, that it's going to take a long while for her to really find herself.

But you know what, I'm having to learn about myself too. I'm a recovering codependent I think, and I'm realizing I've survived five months of separation, I'm still breathing, I'm still living. I need to figure out happiness on my own first, before bringing someone else into it. I do realize that I don't need a woman in my life to make it complete, it's complete because I'm there, I have my children, my friends and family.

That being said I would like to have someone to share life with again, but that will happen when it's supposed to happen. Until then. I'm watching all the sports, dumb comedies and murder mysteries i want
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I'm in that same mode of thinking. Even though I have a few years on some of you guys, I'm beginning to see a whole vista of opportunities laid out before me and I can't wait to get this divorce over with so I can start moving money around to get some of these carts rolling. 

I don't plan on getting serious with any woman for a long, long time. That doesn't mean I won't go out and spread the love on occasion , but I refuse to ever orbit around a woman again like I did my STBXW. 

The next Mrs. Bandit.45 is going to have to be a very self-sustaining, independent woman, because she's not going to have me hovering around taking care of her like I did my present wife. It's just not going to happen.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Once again.... all this talk about "changing back"

They haven't really "changed" at all. They've just shown you what they're capable of.

What really matters is how you're treated.

They thought it was fine and dandy to treat you like dogcrap. Somewhere along the line, you let them know that was ok.

Now, it's no longer ok.

End of story.

(At least it should be)


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

You all may be thinking that they changed, but here is another way of looking at this, they may have just shown who they really are.

Or as Conrad put it what they are capable of.


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## proudwidaddy (Dec 26, 2011)

Conrad,
You are right brother! I wouldn't work with my ex anymore because I refuse to be the doormat that I was with her the last year or so of my marriage. I'm never going to let anyone walk all over me like she did. Besides, she is in such denial she doesn't even realize how bad she treated me. 

Like Bandit said, I'm not going to orbit around a woman again. I need to take some time to find out who Proud is, what do I enjoy when I'm not with my kids. I realize I don't need a woman to make my life complete, it's nice to have a partner but not a requirement anymore.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Jayb said:


> The bolded areas are what I feel atm. I miss the normalcy of the marriage more than my wife, especially, the new version of her that has changed over the past few years.
> 
> I have to keep reminding myself that my older version wife is long gone. I'm not in love with the newer version, but fight with myself at keeping my vows to love and cherish until death...
> 
> ...



Haha, I will not lie to you, right now its pretty dark. I know that is just conducive of the stress of moving her out and the time lost with my daughter, but I do get to finally LOOK into the future and not this limbo grey area BS.


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

My wife is different. I didn't express my love like I assume and read that you all did. So, the love/passion, etc. in our marriage was extinguished for some time. She sought friends who encouraged her to be happy. I withdrew, drank and became a miserable old sod.

Now I see it for what it is and I'm ready to make amends. Ready to fire on all cylinders. But, my wife has been too hurt for so long, that she just wants out. 

That's where we say "we grew apart."


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Jayb said:


> My wife is different. I didn't express my love like I assume and read that you all did. So, the love/passion, etc. in our marriage was extinguished for some time. She sought friends who encouraged her to be happy. I withdrew, drank and became a miserable old sod.
> 
> Now I see it for what it is and I'm ready to make amends. Ready to fire on all cylinders. But, my wife has been too hurt for so long, that she just wants out.
> 
> That's where we say "we grew apart."


Why didn't you express your love and withdraw? What caused you to do this? I just think that you are taking to much of the blame. There are reasons why you withdrew as well and you might want to look into those reasons. My guess was your wife wasn't meeting some need of yours.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Movers are coming tomorrow.

I was kissing my daughter goodbye today and my stbxw said to me, "what about mommy's kiss?" Making a "insecure" joke trying to see if I had feeling still. I just looked at her and said you didn't want them anymore and that is why you are divorcing me. 

What a psycho.

One more day of this crap. It didn't really hurt to be honest, was just more of a shock thing. She was just seeking some validation for her own self worth, because I have been pretty dead emotional wise to her. 

I just find those little cracks in her emotional, cheating, lying shell funny when her true feelings come through.

Oh well, maybe one day she will learn that you can not treat people like this if you expect them to keep on loving you. She pushed me to check out and not look back and that is exactly what I have been doing.

"What about Mommys kiss"

Come the F on.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Nicely handled, Traggy! Like I said, righteous indignation is your friend during the separation process. For excessive caregivers like us, anger usually is the crutch we need to be able to walk away to safety. Otherwise, we are too prone to stay focused on our spouse's emotional pain -- ignoring our own.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Well, here I sit. 

Watching ESPN highlights and just thinking that this is the last night she will ever sleep in this house. 

This is it. The countdown has finally expired and all there is left to do is sleep. 

It is such a weird moment in my life, this transition. 

The movers will be here tomorrow at 8am, I took the day off to make sure that I would not be pillaged anymore. The house appraiser came today so I can open up the new loan in my name to get her off of the house along with the quick deed. This should all be done in a few weeks.

So my check list it this now.

Divorce Child Classes
File the divorce

Two small steps... lol. Everything is documented and split accordingly with a paper trail to prove everything in case she goes crazy.

Moving my friend in this weekend probably. He will help me financially and emotionally. I thank god for him daily. 

I have been working out daily. I am getting huge. Honestly, I don't even remember the last time I was this muscular. Hell, my abs are even showing now. I look like Van Dam.

I am happy physically with myself. I am going to knock them dead when I am ready, but inside feeling a little "foggy/empty"

Bought a bunch of new clothes today. I don't want to concentrate to much on outward appearance, but if it makes me feel better why the hell not.

Oh, I need to get a new washer and dryer. I didn't know you win those when you cheat. 

I am still to much of a pushover, but screw it. Why fight about the small things.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

LOL! My wife is getting the washer and dryer too Traggy!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Its noticeable in your posts that you are doing better. 
Mine is getting all domestic appliances except the radio
and laptop. Could care less about the other stuff. Will buy
a new tv.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Well, it is done.

Got all my furniture moved around and my nice single sized bed in my bedroom with a make shift nightstand. Looks like a damn squat house in here.

Moved all the furniture, getting ready to watch the hockey game. GO BLUES!

Man, this is eerie. Way to quiet. I am "shell shocked"

So crazy that it has came to this. I only lost it twice today. One, was from the guy being over there with my stbxw. She let me know that in so many words. I teared up a bit, but it didn't last. The other was when I was setting up the new tv stand, the drill scared my daughter along with all the new furniture. She was terrified and I cried and told her I was sorry for all the changes, that daddy is doing all that he can. I know she is one, but I more or less said it for me. 

I hope I can sleep tonight. I made sure to burn it at both ends today so I can just crash. 

Time to start learning on living alone. Definitely is a bunch to take in though. It is such a sudden change that you can not adapt to it as fast as you would like. This is all to sudden. I have been mentally preparing for this, but I feel that the only way I am going to adapt to this is to live it and here I am living it.. adapting, accepting, and moving on.

The blues better win tonight, because this day is going to be one of those bad memories that will always be lingering in my mind. 

Oh neat, divorce commercial for dads is on the tv. COME ON.

Anyway, I am doing a hell of a lot better than I thought I would be. Maybe I really am healing. I am not really scared anymore, just uncertain on what the hell I am suppose to do now.

Guess it is really time to move on and see what else this life has for my daughter and I.

Love you all!


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> LOL! My wife is getting the washer and dryer too Traggy!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So I guess that is settled. If you cheat the washer and dryer are yours!

LOL:lol:


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> Its noticeable in your posts that you are doing better.
> Mine is getting all domestic appliances except the radio
> and laptop. Could care less about the other stuff. Will buy
> a new tv.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, I have a long way to go, but I do since a touch of indifference coming through. Not all the time, but that was never there before. I think my mind is tired of all the grieving and wants to get back to being normal. 

We can not grieve forever.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Traggy said:


> So I guess that is settled. If you cheat the washer and dryer are yours!
> 
> LOL:lol:


Nuff said!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Traggy said:


> Yeah, I have a long way to go, but I do since a touch of indifference coming through. Not all the time, but that was never there before. I think my mind is tired of all the grieving and wants to get back to being normal.
> 
> We can not grieve forever.


Just let the emotions process through brother. Its all you can do. Things will change for the better. Just have faith.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jpr (Dec 14, 2011)

Go Blues! 

....at least they won. 

....things are going to get better for you Traggy. They will. You just have to feel these horrible feelings...these emotions must be felt. Each bad day brings you closer and closer to a good day.

Go Cards!


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Here we go,

Started to trigger today. Just a tad bit lonely being here, with my daughter, just getting use to her not being here anymore (STBXW)

So I got sad for a minute and decided to get out of the house and get some sushi and my daughter some new shoes. 

It helped, we just ate dinner together. She had grapes, cottage cheese, egg whites, and wheat bread. I enjoy cooking her meals. My STBXW use to take care of it and I would just take the frozen food she pre-made and defrost it, but I like just making it to order for my baby girl. It is something to do and it is nice to cook her fresh meals. Considering the stbxw can not cook to save her life, I understand why it is this way. 

I dunno, still just not use to all the being alone crap yet. I will adjust the more time that passes. I am excited to find out who I am and excited that I get to do some of the things that I enjoy.

Anyway, I love you all and I hope you are having wonderful days.


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## cantmove (Feb 20, 2012)

Sorry you're having a tough day. My stbxwh has been gone since March 3rd and it is worse now in the daytime than it was. It feels too quiet and empty. I just feel sad and lonely. The upside is the nights are getting easier. I fall asleep most nights without trouble. I thought that would take a long time. Those are the nice surprises.

Like you did today, when the blues hit, get out of the house. I promise it gets easier. I wasn't expecting the days to be difficult so maybe thats why its a problem but I'm sure it will get better soon. 

Hang in there, I know that one day sooner than later we will both have days that are great. My goal at this point is to get through an entire day without shedding one tear. They don't deserve our tears or our loneliness. There are great things and people in our future, The bonus is you have your daughter and I have my son. I truly don't think I could survive this without him.

You guys are in my prayers.


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

The loneliness hits me when I'm not with my children. Then, I'm scrambling to do something. Still have difficulty being alone at my place.

I'm looking for friends, etc.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

I hear that Jay, I think I am definitely going through withdraws from the stbxw living here. I am going to try to stay as busy as I possibly can when I do not have my Daughter. 

It is just so very weird right now. Again, I know I am just not use to all of this yet and over time I will get there, but man this is hard.

Gotta keep telling myself, I didn't create this mess, I just have to live with the choices of someone else. This is what happens sometimes when you put your faith into someone else, we just were on the wrong side of the coin.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Why not find a fwb?


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

I am not divorced yet. I really can't do that until I sign the papers. I made a vow and plan to stick to it until the deed is done. Just because she broke her end of the deal, doesn't mean that gives me the green light on going crazy.

The old two wrongs don't make a right.

It still means a lot to me. Even though it is tarnished and ruined. It is definitely for me though, not her. 

Now, the problem is, this will be very very hard. I already have a few knocking on the door and temptation there. I think I can hold out another 4-5 months. 

Time will tell.

Good idea though keko, that would definitely help me in the now, but I know the long term gratification of it would be a negative. 
My moral's are the only thing still in tact from all of this. Not saying a FWB is the wrong choice here, just definitely not for me.... right now. lol


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Last night was the first night that my daughter had not stayed in the house. 

After, I saw the stbxw new place, and brought my Daughter in. I sat and watch my baby girl play as tears rolled down my face. The stbxw was crying, I was crying, and my daughter was happy.

She said, "I am so sorry"

I said, "This is what you wanted"

She said, "I miss her so much"

I said, "This is what you wanted"

I left and drove home crying my eyes out. Not for losing her, but for my daughter having to stay away from me. I called proudwidaddy and he listened to my cry and talked me down. All in all my melt down lasted about 15 minutes.

I think that was the hardest thing I have ever had to do in my life. I did it, I am still here, it hurts like a mf'er, but I will adapt and survive. 

SO afterward, a friend came over and I didn't much want to sit at home, so we went to a bar. I guess when you go out looking for trouble you find it, because sure as hell wouldn't you know it, an x of mine was there. By the end of the night I was tipsy and lonely, and she was touchy flirty, and I can to an encompass.

Either go home with her, or go the hell home. 

I went home and I am glad that I did. It was hard, especially when it is thrown at you and you haven't had the touch of a woman in a while.

"Oh that is how we are going to end the night" Her

"Yes, that is how we are ending the night" Me

I drove away, got home at 2am, and now I am tired as hell. Gonna check this BS off my list for a while.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Good move Traggy. I'm dealing with the same temptations but decided
to wait until D is final. Morals are worth keeping, dignity also. I had a good
wknd with my son. Now he says he doesnt want to go back home w/the
STBXW. I think he is just saying that. Your x is now seeing the damage she 
Has created.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lifescript said:


> Good move Traggy. I'm dealing with the same temptations but decided
> to wait until D is final. Morals are worth keeping, dignity also. I had a good
> wknd with my son. Now he says he doesnt want to go back home w/the
> STBXW. I think he is just saying that. Your x is now seeing the damage she
> ...


I guarantee she thinks it's Traggy's fault - and blames him.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Conrad: I bet she does. Got this line from STBXW this weekend: "I still don't know why we are separated. Only you know. What was it I did wrong. You must be with someone." LOL. I replied the text with a list of the reasons why.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> Conrad: I bet she does. Got this line from STBXW this weekend: "I still don't know why we are separated. Only you know. What was it I did wrong. You must be with someone." LOL. I replied the text with a list of the reasons why.


Just ignore her. No matter what you say or how you explain things, their brain's wont get it. It wont be long before they want you guys back... :sleeping:


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Keko: Sounded to me like she wanted another chance. Sent me a text in the middle of the night over the weekend. That ship has sunk for me.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

I pray she never comes back, because I will tell her no, but I do not want to have to. You know what I mean?


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## proudwidaddy (Dec 26, 2011)

I had a dream the other day that my stbxw wanted to come back, and I told her no!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Funny I had a similar dream. I suggest preparing yourselves for that moment. I think most of us will have that happen. They will realize their mistake and want to come back. Be ready to say hell no.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

As they say "fool me once....."


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

This would be me giving her a third chance I gave her a second and it was for nothing. So I really have no excuse.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lifescript said:


> Conrad: I bet she does. Got this line from STBXW this weekend: "I still don't know why we are separated. Only you know. What was it I did wrong. You must be with someone." LOL. I replied the text with a list of the reasons why.


Script,

Projection...

She's not there to be with someone. So, YOU must be with someone.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Got it, Conrad. It's just crazy the way they act sometimes. I can only imagine what ppl that don't know about the situation would say if she tells them I left to be with someone else. They play the victim and ppl believe them. I was planning to talk to PIL to set things straight. Should I bother with this or just let it be? Don't need the bad press.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Traggy sorry I'm invading your thread. Just realized.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lifescript said:


> Got it, Conrad. It's just crazy the way they act sometimes. I can only imagine what ppl that don't know about the situation would say if she tells them I left to be with someone else. They play the victim and ppl believe them. I was planning to talk to PIL to set things straight. Should I bother with this or just let it be? Don't need the bad press.


Let it be - until asked.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Thanks.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Well, the daughter has been sick the last few days. Naturally, on the first nights I have her by myself.

Poor poor baby.

The ex looked like crap today dropping her off. Whatever. I look at her with pity. Indifference is becoming more and more.

So, for this first weekend without my daughter, I have a bonfire, ballgame, and the blues hockey game to go to. I am going to have a little fun and avoid my crap for the weekend.

I am sure this is going to still be ridiculously hard.

Sleep has been terrible. Woke up last night and thought, gee I bet they are just cuddling in bed right now. Lasted for about 5 minutes and I smacked myself in the face and squashed it. 

Anyway, things are moving along. The loan will be signed Thursday along with her name getting off the deed. They under writers got it done quickly. Thank you lord.

Love you all!


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## proudwidaddy (Dec 26, 2011)

Traggy love you brother. I'm glad you are going to be busy this weekend. I think I'm going to take myswlf out to dinner, go see the new John Cusack movie "The Raven", maybe get myself drunk and take advantage of myself, 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Traggy said:


> I have a bonfire, ballgame, and the blues hockey game to go to.


Enjoy yourself, Traggy. You deserve it. Start being good to yourself for a change. Hope you don't come down with whatever flu/cold your daughter had.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Small update,

I guess I have blown the dust off a bit and forgot somethings about myself that I am now starting to see. The more I remove myself from thinking about the past and really focusing on the now, the happier and more excited I am becoming.

With the STBXW being out of the house. I can breathe again. I feel a bit less heavy.. It is actually kinda nice. Now, that doesn't mean that I do not miss her from time to time, but I do not miss her as much as I thought I would. Almost barely to be honest. I guess I have been detaching in bigger strides than I thought.

Tonight, is officially the last piece of the split. Can not wait to get this loan and deed transfer done and I can put all this crap behind me.

So about 5pm central, I will be one step closer to signing.


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## proudwidaddy (Dec 26, 2011)

Then about 5:01pm Central Traggy will be opening up the celebatory can of beer!


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Don't leave us hanging, Traggy! How did the 5:00 deed transfer go???


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Well, the deed papers are signed. The loan is going to have to wait a few more days while it is notarized.

The loan guy kind of messed that all up, not realizing that she needs to be off the deed, else she has to approve the loan. The STBXW got pissed and cussed me out in front of all of the loan officers and stated multiple times she wants no part of anything to do with the house. So, in essence, I get to wait a few more days for them to process that. It is kind of a big mess up on their part, but still I got blamed for it. 

LOL, still everything is my fault.

Anyway, she is at least off of the deed, she is just still responsible for half the debt. 

Daughter is with her tonight, hope she is alight. I hate not having her here.

Oh well, something was accomplished, just not everything that I wanted done. 

I can not wait to get the divorce over with. The only times I am getting upset now is when I have to be around her. I just would prefer to never see her again, but she is the mother of my daughter. 

I am doing pretty well otherwise, just a bit of a frustrating day.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

She blew up because she knows she has blown it.... Big time. 

Praying for you Traggy. The end of the tunnel
is near. Stay strong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

The closing on my refinance is next week. Fortunately my STBXW doesn't have to be there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Traggy: Your divorce papers are filed, correct? I'm planning to got the lawyer with the agreement STBXW and I made in paper to start the process (I'm procrastinating this, don't know why) I guess maybe divorce is so final but it's the way to go, no R in this mess. My questions is as I suspect you had a parenting agreement in place also for you was it just as easy as giving the lawyer the agreement paying the fees and filing or are there other things to consider? I wish I was as close to the end line as you and bandit are but I have kind of slowed down with this. Have to finish it. By the way I have to commend you on the way you have dealt with the situation. To see where you are now from where you were in your first post. Life does goes on. I'm moving on and feeling better than ever although I have my moments of anger and missing her (the old her).


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

We are doing the divorce uncontested and filling out all of the paper work together. We have to take childcare classes before we can officially file, which we are doing in the next two weeks and we are using divorce writer.

We have filled out a custody agreement and everything is done. Just one more hoop before we can file and then I figure in two to three months we will be divorced. If not sooner.

I have made this amicable, because I know how to deal with her. It is the best way honestly instead of wasting the 10,000. I have spoken to a lawyer, figured out the child support to a tee through divorce writer, and essentially do not need to make this ugly. If she breaks her promises, to which I have told her, lawyers will get involved, but I essentially have her because she doesn't want to spend her precious nest egg on lawyer fee's so I have a lot of power to dictate and stand up for myself to protect my best interests.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Well done. I went to a lawyer who told me it's $600 for uncontested divorce but you know lawyers always find a way to charge more. I wonder if I should use a service. there's a site called rocketlawyer that prepare divorce papers. How does divorce writer work? Is it a website?


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Right now things are amicable between me and STBXW with her usual anger swings now and then but ok so I feel I have to capitalize now and get this done. Who knows when the switch will flip, you know what I'm talking about.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Went to divorcewriter.com 
Looks like this would be easier for me (less expensive). I'm glad I asked.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Divorce writer is nice and cheap and they offer a full refund if the papers are refused.

So its a win win I think.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Sounds good. As far as you know these papers will hold up in court and are just as good as ones prepared by an attorney? I almost can't believe this could be this easy. That's of course as long as the ex signs the papers. There's always the chance of her changing her mind.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

My boss used divorce writer and he had no issues whatsoever.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Well Traggy sounds like you've saved me some money and no excuse (procrastinating) just have to go online and start the process. Thanks. How's your daughter doing in the situation? My son is doing fine which lifts my spirits. Hope things go smooth for you.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

She is way to young to notice. She seems the same. She is sleeping well and just going about her days and nights like nothing has changed. 

Good luck! I hope that works out for you!


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

It's better when they are young. She will probably not even remember. I don't remember when my parents divorce. I was 3. Mine knows (I had the talk with him) but it seems like he's doing fine. Wants to go to where I live now, no problems. I'm grateful. Yeah, thanks.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Traggy: I started answer the questions online and got to the step where you enter payment information. When do you input information about parenting plan? I thought this would be done before papers are mailed/e-mailed?


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Got it. No need to respond -- I'm doing the rest of the steps now. Thanks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Well,

My first weekend without my daughter is almost complete and I survived it. 

I went to a bonfire on friday, had a pretty good time. Reconnected with some old friends whom I miss dearly.

Saturday, blues game. We lost. Damnit. Before that I went clothes shopping at nordstroms and spent to much damn money, but the clothes make me feel and look great.

Sunday, Cardinals game. Was a blast. 

Now, at home and am tired. I know I will not have weekends like this very often, but for the first one I think I couldn't have cramed any more into it and survived. My only regret was the cardinal game started early, which caused me to miss church. I prayed to the big man though and just thanked him for the friends that were taking me to the game and thanked him for opening that venue for me on this weekend. God took care of me this weekend.

I love that dude.

Anyway, time for bed. Get my baby girl back tomorrow and I can not wait to see her. 

I am at peace today and I hope everyone here finds some too tonight. Lets just sit back and not worry, just for tonight. Join me if you like!


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Traggy, I am glad to hear you did so well in surviving the weekend without your daughter. Thanks for the update. So, yes, I am now joining you in sitting back and not worrying. Well... actually, I am going to cheat because it is after midnight here so I'm going to sleep now.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Traggy,

Since the Cardinals lost when you were there also, is it possible you quit attending sporting events altogether until the Blues actually win their first Cup?


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Traggy,
> 
> Since the Cardinals lost when you were there also, is it possible you quit attending sporting events altogether until the Blues actually win their first Cup?


lol no kidding. I was bringing the losers out this weekend!


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Traggy: I'm glad you're doing fine. Did you ever like Tony La Russa? I hated him. Rooted agains Cards because of him sometimes. 

I have the paperwork e-mailed from Divorce Writer. Question: Can I serve STBXW or I have to find someone to do this?


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Just go and file it together at the courthouse, bring the x along if you could and they should take care of the rest.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

So the serve step is really not necessary ... after she signs and we notarize the paperwork we can just go to the court together and do it ... do we have to go together? Not sure she will want to.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

No idea. =/


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Ok. Thanks again.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lifescript said:


> Traggy: I'm glad you're doing fine. Did you ever like Tony La Russa? I hated him. Rooted agains Cards because of him sometimes.
> 
> I have the paperwork e-mailed from Divorce Writer. Question: Can I serve STBXW or I have to find someone to do this?


I despised Tony LaRussa.

But, I loved the years he was manager.

If they won, great.

If they lost, I had a donkey to pin it on.

Best of both worlds.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

I hear you Conrad. I just though he was a big jerk. And then got caught DWI. I'm a Mets fan. I respect the Cardinals organization they know how to win and their pitching coach is the best. He made pitchers like Pineiro, Lohse, Weaver, Suppan look good. Pujols is now gone but I think they'll keep competing. Adding Beltran was a good deal for them. And always liked Matt Holliday.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Yeah, Pujols still has not hit a home run this year and I think he has a total of 4 or 5 RBI's.

Deal of the century. 

I loved Larussa, but some of his moves were questionable, but he was a huge numbers guys. Dave Duncan, the pitching coach was unreal to have. The influence he had over pitchers was unbelievable.

I miss Larussa, but I am really digging Matheny. He has made a few mistakes here and there, but for the most part he has done well.


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

Traggy said:


> I pray she never comes back, because I will tell her no, but I do not want to have to. You know what I mean?



See I'd like to have him come back so I can tell him no. 
I'd like to reject him the same way...
But okay, really I just want him out of my life now (or at least as much as I can get him out).


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

My feelings exactly. I just want my ex to disappear. Although I would hate to see her break up her OM's marriage, the thought of her moving out of state is very appealing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

It's crazy that Pujols have not hit a homer yet. But I think he'll be fine. In general, those huge contracts are not worth it in the end. I think Matheny is good. I like when a team gives a young guy the chance to manage. They still have Duncan, no?


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Bandit: You still dig STBXW, her looks, right? Same happens to me. She's a good looking girl but looks are not everything, as we all know here.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> It's crazy that Pujols have not hit a homer yet. But I think he'll be fine. In general, those huge contracts are not worth it in the end. I think Matheny is good. I like when a team gives a young guy the chance to manage. They still have Duncan, no?


Duncan's wife took a turn for the worse pre-season and he is pretty much gone.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Well, that's a big loss for them. But they'll be fine. The Cubs are no good. Astros, forget it. Brewers can be a threat but no Fielder. Reds are probably the biggest rivals in the division.


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## proudwidaddy (Dec 26, 2011)

Lifescript.....I'm in the same boat as you and Bandit....still dig the exs looks, but tell myself she is a dumpster fire on the inside
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> Bandit: You still dig STBXW, her looks, right? Same happens to me. She's a good looking girl but looks are not everything, as we all know here.


Very true, and I do tell myself that. Still sucks I won't have access to that spectacular bod of hers.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Yep. Mine sure knew how to work her magic. But it's over and better things are on the horizon. Thinking positive here. A few weeks ago I was at the house picking up my son. She got out of the shower. Don't know if she did it on purpose but seeing her like that weakened me for a moment (girls have so much power -- LOL). Perhaps it was the last image of her bod I'll ever see and it was a good one. 

And that's it folks. She's done and no good for me. Next! LOL.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

The next....

Well, I have been doing a bunch of soul searching lately. I have reconnected with some old friends and reconnected with some old "special" people. By special, just people who have made a giant impact on my life and that I have missed and stopped talking to because of well marriage and life in general.

There is one person, in particular, who has had an impact on me since I was 16 years old. When the internet first came out, people would get in chat rooms and I met this person through there. I was just a kid and I was playing the internet.

It started out harmless, in fact it still is, but we wrote each other letters and emails almost everyday. This went on for around 5-6 years and I know we truely were in love with one another. Only problem was, we were young and we lived 5 hours away and had no way of really doing anything about it. 

So now, we have talked on and off for around 15 years now. We have both been divorced and our lives are a bit more complicated than they once were. We started talking on facebook again, but it eventually led to texting, and now to phone conversations. 

If anything, she makes me feel better about things because she has been through the ringer. I think this is eventually going to lead to something, not sure what it is, but we are going to meet up this year when the divorce is final. (Mine)

I dunno, there has always been this thing that pulls the two of us together. I gotta find out what that is.

Sorry all a bit off topic, but just on my mind today.


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## proudwidaddy (Dec 26, 2011)

Go Traggy!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

This is good Traggy. Waiting for divorce to be final is best thing. Hope great things come your way in the future. You're a good man.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Traggy, I share the sentiment expressed by Proud and LS. Sounds like there already is one bright light shining at the end of the tunnel.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Go for it brother. If it feels right.... well you know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

My, daughters mother, which is the stbxw's new name now, which I have changed accordingly in my phone, was pulling some crap yesterday that was pretty annoying.

First of all, when I dropped my daughter off to her home in the morning, she answered the door without a top on and had lacy panties hanging out of her "sweat pants."

Come on now. She would barely get undressed during the daytime in front of me, but now all of a sudden you are going to answer the door without a top on and say you woke up late. A N N O Y I N G

So anyway, I pretty much ran the hell out of there without looking back. I didn't look, I didn't react, I just kissed my daughter and got the hell out of there. Crazy Woman.

So I get home from work, clean up a little bit before my baby arrives and I am still dressed to a T because I am still in my work clothes. She walks in, see's me, and says.

Her : "Man, you must be a saint or an angel to be able to put up with my crap for four years. Look at you with your bunch of new outfits, while the whole time I was with you you would wear thrift store clothes that I bought." 

Me : "Huh?"

Her: "Just saying that you must have endured a lot to try and make me happy." (Or something like that)

Me : "I don't know how to respond to that, so I am just not going to."

Then the conversation headed back to where it belonged. Focused on my daughter.

I guess she is starting to see how awesome I was, but a little to late. I am a completely different person than I was back then and there is definitely no going back to that nonsense. 

Anyway, I feel that I am in a good place and there is definitely hope all around me. 

You all have a great day and thank you for reading!


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

Traggy said:


> My, daughters mother, which is the stbxw's new name now, which I have changed accordingly in my phone, was pulling some crap yesterday that was pretty annoying.
> 
> First of all, when I dropped my daughter off to her home in the morning, she answered the door without a top on and had lacy panties hanging out of her "sweat pants."
> 
> ...




Awesome. Way to withstand! 

I would assume, if you give in to that nonsense, that in a short time, she'd swerve you again, causing you to spiral and be down for a long time.

Good job in providing her non-responses to shut that down quickly.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Your daughter's mother and my STBXW must be related somehow. She pulled something similar, got of out of the bathroom naked after taking a shower, my son was in his room. And also gives me that sort of crazy talk. Oh I'm glad to see you have moved on. Accelerate the divorce, this is what you wanted all along when she's the one who caused this whole mess. Like Jayb said, good job on working yourself out of that messy situation. The chicks are crazy.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Too little too late...

I like the new name you gave her.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Traggy, I agree with you and Keko. "My Daughter's Mother" pretty well says it all -- defining all that is left in your relationship.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Next time she pulls the naked top stunt, take a second, look at the girls and say, you know I never noticed the left is a little off to the side and smaller than the right one
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Good going Traggy. She knows she blew it, and now she's going for the cheap shots.

Pathetic woman.


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## jpr (Dec 14, 2011)

Good Job, Traggy....way to go.

...this is a good thing. You are seeing things for how they really are. It is amazing how our view of the world can change over such a short period of time.

...wish I could take you out for some Ted Drewes to celebrate!...or maybe a beer at the Tap Room? ...I miss st. louis.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

That would be awesome. St. Louis misses you too! Move back home! I will keep you company lol!


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Picture is on my profile, but ya gotta be my friend!


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## jpr (Dec 14, 2011)

Traggy said:


> That would be awesome. St. Louis misses you too! Move back home! I will keep you company lol!


hahaha. Not possible, but it would be nice, though. I miss my good, ole midwestern boys. 

Toasted ravioli, gooey butter cake, provel cheese, Imos/Cecil/Fortel's pizza....good beer! yum! Now, I am hungry. ...and homesick.


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

Traggy said:


> That would be awesome. St. Louis misses you too! Move back home! I will keep you company lol!


Bandit is from St Louis??


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

No JPR is


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I'm from Dragoon, Arizona... 

But I like St. Louis. Nice town.


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

Wow! Something was amiss with the messages...
I am from KC. I love StL though!


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Woo,

She is off the house and she is off the loan. It is all mine! HOLLA!

Going to go to the park today with the Daughter. Wife has been acting weird and flirty. Really freaking me out, I finally asked her why she was being a creep yesterday. She just laughed. 

Women.

Anyway, went out a bit last night, drank a few beers. Was fun. Loving this freedom. Really embracing it when my baby isn't around.

Anyway, just wanted to put this accomplishment in writing. I hope you all have a great day.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Congrats Traggy! Is another thing off the list for you. I'm hanging out with some friends tonight watching the boxing fight, you like boxing?


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> Congrats Traggy! Is another thing off the list for you. I'm hanging out with some friends tonight watching the boxing fight, you like boxing?



I use to, but not much anymore. I watch MMA mostly.


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## proudwidaddy (Dec 26, 2011)

I love MMA. Tonight I'm going to watch the new movie The Avengers with a good friend of mine
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

I hear you Traggy. Lots of people have gone away from boxing and instead watch MMA. There's a lot of stuff I don't like in boxing but can't stop watching big fights like tonight's. Odds are against Cotto but I wish he would win. Floyd is really good, not taking that away from him, but he's ****y. Don't like it. 

Proud: I want to watch the avengers too. Even thought about going to watch it with my son but I think he's too young to watch that movie. BTW, any tips ... you mentioned you went to Disney with kids, anything I should do in particular while over there?


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## proudwidaddy (Dec 26, 2011)

You have to see the Indiana Jones live show!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Ok. I'll make sure to see that.


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

Traggy said:


> Woo,
> 
> She is off the house and she is off the loan. It is all mine! HOLLA!
> 
> ...


Congrats!!
Please don't group all women in one category 
Some of us are better than her

Enjoy the freedom and flirt it up!


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Mamatomany said:


> Congrats!!
> Please don't group all women in one category
> Some of us are better than her
> 
> Enjoy the freedom and flirt it up!


Lol, Yeah I know better than that.

I Put another pic up!


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Update, 

Well, I moved my buddy in. He now sleeps in the basement. My daughters mother is really starting to look like hell. She has lost so much weight she is starting to look terrible and sickly. Oh well, can not dwell on it. 

She has stopped with the weirdness, thank god. I guess her and the OM kissed and made up. 

Anyway, enough about that nonsense. Things are looking up more and more everyday. I am still exercising and I am probably in the best shape that I have ever been in my life. I am going to church weekly and participating in activities that are beyond my own needs. I am having a blast with the new found freedom and the time that I spend with my daughter being able to do what I want with her and not have everything dictated to me.

It is a weird feeling when you were so petrified of someone leaving you, but all of a sudden you realize the pain and trauma was all you were holding onto, that when they are gone and you let go, your life couldn't be any better. I can honestly say that I am getting to a point where I just might be happier than I was when I was with my daughters mother. 

I was holding onto a dream that had turned into a nightmare. I think I finally woke up.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

I'm very happy for you Traggy. This is what I was talking about in one of my previous post, how looking at other's progress is inspiring and let us know there's light at the end of the tunnel. Like you, I'm moving on with my life and seeing that this is what's best for me. I had a tough night. After getting home from the gym I was very tired but my mind wasn't and I kind of went back to everything that has happened in the last decade of my life with STBXW. I was just thinking about everything. Mistakes I made. Things I could have done different and I realized that even when things were good and I was getting what I needed and wanted from her it used to take so much effort for her to give it to me. In a loving relationship, this doesn't happen. You give and you get effortlessly. The willingness and desire to share everything is there. 

"I was holding onto a dream that had turned into a nightmare. I think I finally woke up." Good.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

I hear that man, that is one of the things I struggle with currently. I do not EVER dwell on our past. I am not sure if I just blocked it out, if I have a touch of denial, or I just really am indifferent to our past experiences. Some were definitely good and some were bad, but I know they are all in the past and I can not stand to waste my energy and think about them, so I simply don't. 

I am not sure if this is healthy or not though.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

"I'm a slow walker but I will never walk back". That's a quote from Abraham Lincoln. I believe this is the attitude to have in life. Keep making progress and although it's slow progress you're moving forward. This is what I keep telling myself and I'm doing ok. I think it helps to look back sometimes (but it's not my preference and I recommend not to). Last night looking back helped me realize even when things were good, THEY WERE NOT THAT GOOD. So I guess I took a step back to take two forward. 

I also realized last night that I have to get going with filing. I think this is the last thing I need to turn the page for good. Just knowing that the papers are filed and all I have to do is wait will start giving me closure -- a sense of finality to it all.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Keep making progress and although it's slow progress you're moving forward. 

-- Correction: This is not your case. I'm just saying that you my friend are making big progress.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Well hell,

Make a long story short I got into the "game" this weekend and was successful. I am done drinking. I am done "flirting"

I feel like a PoS for doing it and I was in a weak moment. Being alone really starts to play on you. However, I feel worse than I did before. 

Why do I feel like I did something wrong? Why in the world did I do this? I have been put on this path by someone elses decision, but I am suppose to just be single, while she gets to go have her fun. I am faithful, loyal, and honest. 

I am definitely not doing that anymore. I guess I need to be burned to really learn my lesson.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

What happened?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

I "got" some. I didn't want to do it until I got divorced, but I am only a man....


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Just really really disappointed in myself. Feel like I let a bit of my moral fiber slip away.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Traggy said:


> I "got" some. I didn't want to do it until I got divorced, but I am only a man....


Was she a Cardinals' fan?


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Yeah, huge Cards fan.


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## jpr (Dec 14, 2011)

Try not to beat yourself up too much, Traggy. I sort of know how you feel. I had a similar experience this weekend. Guilt. argh.

…at least she was a Cardinals fan. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Don't feel bad about it. Everyone makes mistakes plus I'm starting to re-think this whole thing about waiting until D is final. Anyways it's in the past. Hope it was worth it.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Traggy said:


> Yeah, huge Cards fan.


If it helps, I understand completely.

They're damned near irresistible.


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## jpr (Dec 14, 2011)

Conrad said:


> If it helps, I understand completely.
> 
> They're damned near irresistible.


Yes, we certainly are.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

jpr said:


> Try not to beat yourself up too much, Traggy. I sort of know how you feel. I had a similar experience this weekend. Guilt. argh.
> 
> …at least she was a Cardinals fan.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



:smthumbup: Your TAM bfs will be crushed though..


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

jpr said:


> Try not to beat yourself up too much, Traggy. I sort of know how you feel. I had a similar experience this weekend. Guilt. argh.
> 
> …at least she was a Cardinals fan.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Did you really? The guilt and the just being ashamed is pretty terrible. I guess I am just incapable of having guilt free fun.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> Don't feel bad about it. Everyone makes mistakes plus I'm starting to re-think this whole thing about waiting until D is final. Anyways it's in the past. Hope it was worth it.


Well, see I knew this wasn't worth it. I knew how this would make me feel. But,I just wanted to see if I could do it. Wanted to remember what it was like to feel wanted and not discarded.


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## canguy66 (Dec 18, 2011)

I envy those of you who have taken the plunge. I want to, but I'm not there yet. I could have too, last March... but, no regrets. It'll come (pun intended).


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## proudwidaddy (Dec 26, 2011)

See this is what I'm afraid of too, taking the plunge before I am ready. I've gotten to the point where lately I don't even have any true sexual urges. I do miss the hugs, and kisses....but it's more of a companionship I miss. 

I realized this weekend that with my ex, it's not necessarily the sex I miss but the connection that came with the sex. THe feeling of love, being wanted, etc.

It's ironic last mother's day I was making love with my wife, this year for mother's day my ex was doing someone else. Funny how a year changes things.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

I think it is one of those things that you never will know if you are ready or not until you try. I obviously am not ready yet and will not partake in these activities anymore. 

I was completely upfront at least from the beginning. I told the lady that I am not here for anything, I am going through a divorce, and I am not looking for anything at all from her. Essentially, I did not lead her on in the slightest.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

proudwidaddy said:


> I realized this weekend that with my ex, it's not necessarily the sex I miss but the connection that came with the sex. THe feeling of love, being wanted, etc.


Proud,

Are you still attributing those feelings to her?

Or are you telling us about yours?

This is actually a key point.


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## jpr (Dec 14, 2011)

Traggy said:


> Did you really? The guilt and the just being ashamed is pretty terrible. I guess I am just incapable of having guilt free fun.


Yes. The firefighter showed up at my house in uniform and I couldn't control myself. :0

embarrassed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

jpr said:


> Yes. The firefighter showed up at my house in uniform and I couldn't control myself. :0
> 
> embarrassed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


haha, we suck at temptation. I guess go us... I'm back to being celibate, at least until next time anyway.


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## jpr (Dec 14, 2011)

Traggy said:


> haha, we suck at temptation. I guess go us... I'm back to being celibate, at least until next time anyway.


me too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> Don't feel bad about it. Everyone makes mistakes plus I'm starting to re-think this whole thing about waiting until D is final. Anyways it's in the past. Hope it was worth it.


I am sure I have said it before.... but I'll say it again. I didn't wait for the state to marry us before we had sex and I don't know why we have to wait for the state to say we are divorced. I think both are spiritual and does not need the state to 'approve.' If you are spiritually divorced (or rather in your heart you know there is no turning back for either of you) than why not move on? My stbxh has and why should I wait on the glorious state and my financial status to decide what I should do with my body and/or heart.

I hope the guilt is short lived.


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## cantmove (Feb 20, 2012)

Don't feel bad Traggy. We were all rejected and we need to feel wanted again. And let's be realistic sex feels good. I will wait until my divorce is done but only because my stbx wasn't wasting time on seperation. From start to finish it will probably only be four months. I'm on the fast track. Mommas right we didn't wait for marriage to have sex so the reverse is ok. Just follow your heart. If it isn't right wait for a while next time.


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## MyselfAgain (Apr 21, 2012)

I feel like I can't have sex again until I'm in love...worried it will feel cheap and/or that I'll be used, even if I like the guy. If my H could "make love" and then treat me so badly, how can I really trust someone to "make love" to me again? :scratchhead:


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Hey folks,

Been in a bit of a funk. I been having some fun, but you know at the end of the day it is not who I am and I need to really stop with the nonsense because it isn't helping me to become a more rounded person. The more I meet new people, that are interested in me, the less I think I even want to be with anyone anytime soon. This was definitely a lesson that I needed to learn I guess.

My daughters mother just sent me a text saying some guy on FB was asking her out and asking about the divorce and wondered if I might know him because she thought it was weird.

Just trying to get a reaction, I figured she would stop by now, but alas she has not. 


How do I be mean to people? How the hell do I tell people that "No, I don't like this, and this is unacceptable!" 

Proceeded by walking away. I know this is a flaw in me and this is definitely something that I can see causes issues in my relationships and I am trying to learn this lesson and really latch onto it.

Going to take the child care classes in two weeks and then we will be proceeding to getting this all over with. 

Things overall have been great, just a little complicated.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Just tell her you don't know the guy. Dont act mad or anything. Seeing you dont care will kill her.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Traggy said:


> Hey folks,
> 
> Been in a bit of a funk. I been having some fun, but you know at the end of the day it is not who I am and I need to really stop with the nonsense because it isn't helping me to become a more rounded person. The more I meet new people, that are interested in me, the less I think I even want to be with anyone anytime soon. This was definitely a lesson that I needed to learn I guess.
> 
> ...


Just tell her you don't like where this conversation is headed.

If she asks, "why"

You tell her, "I'm not ok with it"


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

I told her "No"

That was it. She is so damn weird.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Yeah, that's it. She will try to gain your attention again, just wait.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Traggy said:


> My daughters mother just sent me a text saying some guy on FB was asking her out and asking about the divorce and wondered if I might know him because she thought it was weird.
> 
> Just trying to get a reaction, I figured she would stop by now, but alas she has not.
> 
> ...


She played you enough why not start playing with her? Make up lame excuse's about that guy, or tell him he's your cousin, etc.?


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Nothing to really mess with. I do get some twinges in jealousy though when she texted me that. 

I am sure her and the OM are still together, but I haven't heard or asked about it since she left the homestead. 

I have been having my fun too, but it really isn't doing anything, but making me feel guilty and worse about all of this. I can't just have sex with someone. I guess its just to damn intimate for me. 

I need to learn how to do this.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

The twinge of jealousy was the point of the text.

She likes attention from a variety of sources.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Or just don't answer. Flush her message.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MyselfAgain (Apr 21, 2012)

Traggy said:


> I can't just have sex with someone. I guess its just to damn intimate for me.


That is one of the things that gives me hope...that men out there like you exist! Sometimes it feels as though I am the only one who is this way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jpr (Dec 14, 2011)

Traggy said:


> I can't just have sex with someone. I guess its just to damn intimate for me.
> 
> I need to learn how to do this.


I learned this lesson too. I feel for you. 

I sort of feel like a teenager again...making all kinds of mistakes and trying to 'find out who I really am' again

It is tough.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

jpr said:


> I learned this lesson too. I feel for you.
> 
> I sort of feel like a teenager again...making all kinds of mistakes and trying to 'find out who I really am' again
> 
> It is tough.


This is exactly how I feel. 

I am an absolute wreck today. I feel guilty for being single. I am just not ready for all of this bs. 

I have one person telling me now how much they can't help but like me entirely to much and it has made me extremely uncomfortable. I have not lead anyone on, I told everything up front about what I expect, but now I get to be a PoS guy and hurt someone's feelings. 

I am officially done with all of this nonsense, I am already under enough pressure and all I seem to be doing is adding more to it, and instead of thinking this would help me to move forward, its causing me to move backward and miss things how they once were. 

Its a damn paradox and I hate it. I am only happy nowadays when I have my daughter and when I am at church. 

I love my friends, but damn this life style is so damn foreign to me, even though I once lived it thoroughly, but boy have I changed since then. I just meet people and it seems forced and unreal on my part. Like I am floating above myself watching "myself" be sociable. I hate this too.

I think I just didn't realize how confusing moving on is sometimes.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

MyselfAgain said:


> That is one of the things that gives me hope...that men out there like you exist! Sometimes it feels as though I am the only one who is this way.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Not going to lie, I have tried twice now, and both times I really really hated it. I guess I just needed to learn this lesson.


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## jpr (Dec 14, 2011)

Traggy said:


> This is exactly how I feel.
> 
> I am an absolute wreck today. I feel guilty for being single. I am just not ready for all of this bs.
> 
> ...


Oh my gosh. I know EXACTLY how you feel. Really. I went through all this this weekend...I totally feel like a poop-head, but I had to end this "play-time" thing I had going on. Even though he *said* that he knew I didn't want anything serious and *said* that he knew I just wanted to have some fun right now, he started to get really clingy--and then he got very angry when I said I didn't have time to see him this weekend. I have a feeling that he was very lonely too--and was desperately trying to find another warm body to help lessen his loneliness.

Too much. I definitely wasn't ready for all that.

I am trying to figure out what I want...and I definitely don't want somebody who just is there to alleviate my boredom or loneliness. I am trying to visualize where and who I want to be with in the future...and I am going to try to do things that help me obtain those goals. Flirting and fooling around got old real quick for me. Ultimately, that stuff doesn't really satisfy me. It just passes the time.

I learned that trying to just pass the time and fool around with another person just isn't me. 

I am trying to surround myself with my good friends who build me up--and I am trying to avoid those friends who are just looking to "hook" me up. ...at least for the time being. At least until I get a solid footing underneath me. 

Right now, I definitely don't need anymore complications in my life.

Life and learn....right?


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## canguy66 (Dec 18, 2011)

I completely agree with you both, jpr and Traggy. This is like being a teenager again in a way. Rediscovery of oneself is a good thing, but one heck of a journey. It's like we have two hurdles: getting through the grief (check!) and finding out what makes us tick, what we want, establish our goals... it is about find our footing again.

There are certain people who have quietly criticized me for "wallowing", and this was one (yes ONE) week after my ex announced she wanted to separate. Fast forward six months later, and the grief is pretty much gone, but the uncertainty, loneliness and shaky ground is still there. Friends who have been through this have said it takes a year or more, but of course this varies.

Wow... can't believe May 11th already marked the 6-month "anniversary".

On a good note, we're all making progress through all the ups and downs... but man-o-man... what a hellride.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Yeah, I can't help but feel this was a bit of a set back for me. 

I am currently explaining to the attached person why we can no longer continue. It is not going well and I feel like an ahole. 

Lets just see how much crap I can add to the divorce before its all over. I am stressed to the max. I am such an idiot.

How in the hell do you figure out what you want, when all you wanted was what you had? No I do not want my daughters mother back, but I literally had everything that I needed out of life, it just slipped through my fingers. 

I am going to ballgames galore, doing things for me, but I feel like I am spinning plates just waiting for all of them to crash all around me. I am starting a baby gym class with my daughter tomorrow, trying new things, but I feel like I am losing my way. 

Not sure how you lose a way though when you have no idea where you are going. 

What have I learned now.... Hmmm. I learned that I am not ready at all. I guess that is progress learning that you havent made enough progress right??


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## canguy66 (Dec 18, 2011)

Traggy said:


> Yeah, I can't help but feel this was a bit of a set back for me.
> 
> I am currently explaining to the attached person why we can no longer continue. It is not going well and I feel like an ahole.
> 
> ...


Sometimes progress is knowing you just need more time. Think of it that way instead of pressuring yourself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Traggy said:


> Not going to lie, I have tried twice now, and both times I really really hated it. I guess I just needed to learn this lesson.


Well, you must not have hated it completely. You did do it a second time! 

Same gal both times, or are you just a promiscuous slVt?





Okay that was a joke. Okay? Harmless fun...just teasing.....


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## jpr (Dec 14, 2011)

It IS progress, Traggy. 

You are figuring things out. It takes time.  You will figure this out. You are so introspective and you want to do the right thing. You will figure it out. You will.

Eventually, you will get to where you want to be. 

I know the feeling, though....that feeling like you are just sort of keeping your head above water....just sort of going through the motions...floating through life...just sort of existing for a while...not moving in any sort of real direction.

You mentioned "floating over yourself" and watching yourself be social from above. Well, maybe you just need to float a little higher above yourself to see the "big picture". ...just from your postings on here, I can see how much progress you have made. 

When you are looking at your life through a microscope and analyzing everything you are doing, it is sometimes hard to tell how much progress you have actually made. This is a learning experience. Perhaps you need to me the poo-hole right now...just to get this girl out of your life....just to move forward. She is an adult. She can handle it. Let her handle the rejection. She can do it.

As a sidenote...I did a month of little gym classes with my son when he turned 13 months. It was sooooo fun much. I loved it , and I wish I could afford more classes. It was a little weird, because I was the only single parent in the class. And, at the time, I was not comfortable with my role in life as a single parent. I was just trying to wrap my brain around the fact that I was, indeed, pretty much raising my son on my own. But, it was just such a great bonding experience, and I learned so much at those classes. It was fun and cute and wonderful. You are going to have a great time!


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Traggy, Canguy, JPR

The times that I've gone out with friends after the separation and we've been to a bar/club where you are by all means supposed to be having fun and trying to hook-up. I've always though men and women who go to clubs/bars on their own without their SO are trying to hookup with someone. Well the times Ive done it I've felt out of place. Like the time for me to do that passed. In a strange way I've felt old or something. Im still quite young (very young) not even 30. 

I got pissed and felt embarassed. Like Traggy says I wanted what I had. A had a family and now I'm supposed to become a player (recommended by some of my friends).

Don't want to get into anything serious right away but I will be looking for Ms. Right not a ONS (when I'm ready that is).

Traggy, Dont feel bad for what you going to do. You are being honest. *******s would be with her and fake it.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Well, you must not have hated it completely. You did do it a second time!
> 
> Same gal both times, or are you just a promiscuous slVt?
> 
> ...


Lol. Ummm, different. I am done now though.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Traggy said:


> Lol. Ummm, different. I am done now though.


I just had to raz you for that...

Peace brother.


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## [email protected] (Dec 18, 2011)

Traggy, 
At least you have the balls to give it a go! I admire you (and JPR for that matter) for that.

I am not sure that I will be able to get back in the saddle so to speak.. 
I've only ever been with my STBXH, I have no moves whatsoever and was never very good at reading signals & all that stuff.

It's very daunting, I'm sure I'll get the hang of it eventually...

I agree with mama, I didn't wait to be married so I shouldn't wait to be divorced, however as my divorce will be through in the next week or so and I am nowhere near ready to think about this stuff yet, I will be able to say with certainty that I have never been unfaithful to the duchebag!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## canguy66 (Dec 18, 2011)

I have an idea how you feel, Traggy. I've yet to be with anyone since my ex, and we've been separated for just over six months. I crave intimacy sometimes, but I'm not in a rush. Still working on my physical self for now. I suppose it would be difficult to want nothing more than a romp when someone else wants a relationship that you might not be ready for.

In other news, this joke comes to mind.

A woman in a bar walks over to the bartender and asks him for an explanation of a *double-entendre*... so he gave it to her.


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## proudwidaddy (Dec 26, 2011)

@Startingover40,
I feel your pain because for all practical purposes my stbxw was the only one I was with, or ever comfortable with. I just don't know how to disconnect myself emotionally in order to do the act. I miss the kissing, hugs, sex, snuggling, but I have to have more than just a one night stand.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Try this mix men...

Plavix + Abilify + Zolft = Zero sex drive.

Works for me. Try it.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

lol i am in


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## canguy66 (Dec 18, 2011)

proudwidaddy said:


> @Startingover40,
> I feel your pain because for all practical purposes my stbxw was the only one I was with, or ever comfortable with. I just don't know how to disconnect myself emotionally in order to do the act. *I miss the kissing, hugs, sex, snuggling, but I have to have more than just a one night stand*.


Me too, Proud. But... it is what it is, right? There are other fish in the sea. I think that eventually, we'll be pretty surprised and happy with who we end up with. Call it a feeling.


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## proudwidaddy (Dec 26, 2011)

@Can,
Oh I know that there are plenty of fish in the sea, they have started giving me some attention. I also realize that I have so much I want to do to focus on me, and my kids. THe next month will be crazy. I'm stressed to the max trying to find a place to live for my friend and I, my divorce is on June 19th, and I turn 35 next month. I just want to get to July, hopefully then things will start to settle down.


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## [email protected] (Dec 18, 2011)

proudwidaddy;765347 I miss the kissing said:


> I miss the kissing.. although that went awol from our relationship a while ago... I missed it then, I miss it now.
> 
> I miss the kind of kissing that would leave you breathless... that would get you hot 'n' sweaty, make your body tingle all over...
> 
> ...


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## proudwidaddy (Dec 26, 2011)

@Startingover,
It's funny because even the night before I moved out ( a week after my ex said she wanted a divorce) she still laid next to me in bed, cuddled up, saying how she always feels safe and secure in my arms. That she will miss that. Very weird.


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## canguy66 (Dec 18, 2011)

My ex did not show much affection. She did for the first few years of the relationship, then affection was rare. Kissing and hugging seemed to bother her more than anything else. It wasn't for lack of fresh breath and cleanliness on my part, let me make that clear. She would say I was a great kisser, lover yet the intimacy well was pretty dry. (I am having a Larry David Curb Your Enthusiasm moment here... _it was pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty dry._)

Sorry to thread highjack, Traggy. Venting and trying to shake it off.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

canguy66 said:


> My ex did not show much affection. She did for the first few years of the relationship, then affection was rare. Kissing and hugging seemed to bother her more than anything else. It wasn't for lack of fresh breath and cleanliness on my part, let me make that clear. She would say I was a great kisser, lover yet the intimacy well was pretty dry. (I am having a Larry David Curb Your Enthusiasm moment here... _it was pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty dry._)
> 
> Sorry to thread highjack, Traggy. Venting and trying to shake it off.



Vent away man. 

What this place is for.


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## jpr (Dec 14, 2011)

canguy66 said:


> In other news, this joke comes to mind.
> 
> A woman in a bar walks over to the bartender and asks him for an explanation of a *double-entendre*... so he gave it to her.


Okay...I have been thinking about this all day, and I just don't get it.

:scratchhead:

I even googled it to see if there was an explanation of this joke on the internet.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Can,

She was just "too busy" for that stuff.

You do realize the sort of chaos that is in their heads, right?




canguy66 said:


> My ex did not show much affection. She did for the first few years of the relationship, then affection was rare. Kissing and hugging seemed to bother her more than anything else. It wasn't for lack of fresh breath and cleanliness on my part, let me make that clear. She would say I was a great kisser, lover yet the intimacy well was pretty dry. (I am having a Larry David Curb Your Enthusiasm moment here... _it was pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty dry._)
> 
> Sorry to thread highjack, Traggy. Venting and trying to shake it off.


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## canguy66 (Dec 18, 2011)

jpr said:


> Okay...I have been thinking about this all day, and I just don't get it.
> 
> :scratchhead:
> 
> I even googled it to see if there was an explanation of this joke on the internet.


So he gave it to her... 

1) as in an explanation of the significance of the term "double-entendre".
2) as in _gave it to her_ sexually.

This help?


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## jpr (Dec 14, 2011)

canguy66 said:


> So he gave it to her...
> 
> 1) as in an explanation of the significance of the term "double-entendre".
> 2) as in _gave it to her_ sexually.
> ...


Oh...well, then I guess I did understand it afterall. 

...it just wasn't very funny, that's all. I thought maybe I was missing something...I thought maybe I was missing something because it should have been funnier.


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## canguy66 (Dec 18, 2011)

Conrad said:


> Can,
> 
> She was just "too busy" for that stuff.
> 
> You do realize the sort of chaos that is in their heads, right?


Yes I do, Conrad. Please share any insights you have on the following...

In my estimation, she suffers from (enjoys?) narcissistic personality disorder. She often said she kept busy with community fundraisers/events because she was bored. I am thinking it was because she was bored with herself. Since she did not love or like herself (her words), she sought external validation in many forms. She loved attention, was in a perpetual search of the next high/rush/experience/praise, and it seemed anything she did was with an end in mind, especially if it meant anything that furthered her reputation and career. It was very much all about her, all the time. Not just my opinion, many of her friends have stated this themselves.

To my knowledge, she had a great childhood. Her parents are terrific. I know she was date-raped years ago. She mentioned it to me once, but would never want to discuss it further. Last Christmas, while we were separated but still living together, I asked if there was anything else that happened in her past that made her feel like she needed constant validation. There are deep self-esteem issues at play. She could not look at me in the eye and changed the subject. She did not want to talk about it. To be clear, there was no physical or mental abuse in our marriage. 

So here's where the "nice guy" part of my personality kicks in. I am still sometimes tempted to reach out to her and tell her it's ok, that if there are issues in her past she needs to face and work though that I will be there for her as a friend and her husband. It's more than a fixer/rescue issue however, i really do want to help. But... she has pretty much made it clear through her actions that she'd done with me and the marriage. I did sent her two messages last week, one of which I shared on my "progress' thread. In the other, I just told her I was concerned about her and hoped she saw seeing a counselor as she said she'd do, and said she needed. I've no idea if she had. I asked her not to reply to my message and she didn't. I still care for her well-being and wish her only the best. I knew ambition and career were important to her, so fine... if that's what she wanted to pursue, that is her life and her choice. She has applied for a job 8 hours away, and she intends on spreading her wings and see how far she can soar up the corporate ladder. Good for her, but that's just ain't me.

I may very well be better off for it, but I still have mixed feelings at times. I had an amazing April where I felt strong and ready to move on, but progress in May has been slow.

My ex has her qualities, and is a good person at her core. She shows me an extreme lack of empathy, and I never felt she had my back, but even though there was a rip in the corner, I still appreciated the painting as a whole. I accepted her faults and all, but the reverse was not true.


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## canguy66 (Dec 18, 2011)

jpr said:


> Oh...well, then I guess I did understand it afterall.
> 
> ...it just wasn't very funny, that's all. I thought maybe I was missing something...I thought maybe I was missing something because it should have been funnier.


Really? I thought it was great. In that case, I won't bother sharing the one about the money in the tree.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

jpr said:


> oh...well, then i guess i did understand it afterall.
> 
> ...it just wasn't very funny, that's all. I thought maybe i was missing something...i thought maybe i was missing something because it should have been funnier.




ohhhhhhhhhh snap!


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## jpr (Dec 14, 2011)

canguy66 said:


> Really? I thought it was great. In that case, I won't bother sharing the one about the money in the tree.


Please ...share. I will tell you if it is lame or not.


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## cantmove (Feb 20, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> I miss the kissing.. although that went awol from our relationship a while ago... I missed it then, I miss it now.
> 
> I miss the kind of kissing that would leave you breathless... that would get you hot 'n' sweaty, make your body tingle all over...
> 
> ...


[email protected], you just made me cry and I was about to post that I was having a better day. I miss kissing too but the part about your head in the nook of his arm was too much. I really miss being in bed naked and laying on his chest and him tickling my back. I miss that more than sex. It's the intimacy that I can't let go of.


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## [email protected] (Dec 18, 2011)

cantmove said:


> [email protected], you just made me cry and I was about to post that I was having a better day. I miss kissing too but the part about your head in the nook of his arm was too much. I really miss being in bed naked and laying on his chest and him tickling my back. I miss that more than sex. It's the intimacy that I can't let go of.


Didn't mean to bring you down, sorry.. 
I miss those moment, but I also know now they were a lie. How many times has he lay there with her like that? With her feeling the same way? It wasnt special, not to him. 
He is a liar & a fraud. Im sure I'll have those moments again, but next time they might be real and mean something for both of us. 

Now that WOULD be lovely xx
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## proudwidaddy (Dec 26, 2011)

Cantmove,
Come on over sweetie, we can lay naked, you can put your head on my chest, I'll tickle your back


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## [email protected] (Dec 18, 2011)

proudwidaddy said:


> Cantmove,
> Come on over sweetie, we can lay naked, you can put your head on my chest, I'll tickle your back


Oi!!! What am I? Chopped liver?? Lolx
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Oi!!! What am I? Chopped liver?? Lolx
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'll take care of you baby.


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## cantmove (Feb 20, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Didn't mean to bring you down, sorry..
> I miss those moment, but I also know now they were a lie. How many times has he lay there with her like that? With her feeling the same way? It wasnt special, not to him.
> He is a liar & a fraud. Im sure I'll have those moments again, but next time they might be real and mean something for both of us.
> 
> ...


We have a lot in common. I haven't really let myself think about the fact that many of those times were lies as he had probably been with her earlier in the day. We both have endured so much with their lta's. I have a hard time with thinking that she won. All her years hanging on finally paid off when he left me. I know she didn't really win but....one day I'll really believe I won!!!


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## cantmove (Feb 20, 2012)

proudwidaddy said:


> Cantmove,
> Come on over sweetie, we can lay naked, you can put your head on my chest, I'll tickle your back


My son just looked at me while I was reading this and said, "Momma, why are you smiling so big?". No reason baby, just read something that made me feel good.

What's your address?


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## [email protected] (Dec 18, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> I'll take care of you baby.


Awwww... thanks Bandit x I'll take care of you too 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## [email protected] (Dec 18, 2011)

cantmove said:


> We have a lot in common. I haven't really let myself think about the fact that many of those times were lies as he had probably been with her earlier in the day. We both have endured so much with their lta's. I have a hard time with thinking that she won. All her years hanging on finally paid off when he left me. I know she didn't really win but....one day I'll really believe I won!!!


I struggle with this too from time to time, although nowadays I'm more inclined to think she can have him! The fact his OW has waited so long is precisely the reason I won't even try for a R... She will never give up, she's waited this long, she's wasted most of he adult life sneaking around with him, if she walks away now it will be admitting she was wrong. She won't do that. 

My Mum god rest her soul, said many wise things to me. One of which was, "Sarah love, what is the point in competing with someone, when the trophy on your mantle at the end of it is for the worlds crappiest husband? If you are going to compete, make sure the prize is worth winning "

I go back to that every time I wobble... I like to think that now, I'm offloading my crap onto her sorry ass.. Let her deal with his selfish behavior, she has no idea what he is really like. They've had the odd day snatched her & there.... She's gonna be sorry.. Ha!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ImStillHere (Apr 25, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> My Mum god rest her soul, said many wise things to me. One of which was, "Sarah love, what is the point in competing with someone, when the trophy on your mantle at the end of it is for the worlds crappiest husband? If you are going to compete, make sure the prize is worth winning "


This is a great quote! Mothers always know the right things to say. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## canguy66 (Dec 18, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> My Mum god rest her soul, said many wise things to me. One of which was, "Sarah love, what is the point in competing with someone, when the trophy on your mantle at the end of it is for the worlds crappiest husband? If you are going to compete, make sure the prize is worth winning "


Very wise. 

My dad shared the following when my now ex-wife said she wanted to leave me for the second time last summer:

_How many times do you have to hear "I don't love you" before it sinks in?
_

And in reference to clinging to hope...

_Sometimes it's better to suffer one deep cut than a thousand little ones._


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

canguy,

do you think you may be lingering between the "depression" and "acceptance" stages of your grief?

I'm sure you're done with denial, anger, bargaining and almost all of depression. Maybe it's moving to the acceptance stage that you're having a bit of difficulty with.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

We went to the baby gym last night and had a blast. 

Jumped on trampolines and just had a great old time. 

She was worn out when we got home, so she slept pretty well.

Was one of those really good times that when its over you looked back and think that everything is going to be alright. That everything can make sense again even though it is all very different. 

I still struggle with not having her everyday, I have her on most days, but dropping her off on the every other weekend brings me so close to the breaking point. I guess I am getting use to it, I don't cry as bad on the car ride home, but its just terrible walking that lonely walk back to the car. Leaving your past behind you.

The child drop off, that is what I want to talk about. It is almost like re-living a nightmare over and over again on a daily basis and it lasts for only a few brief minutes. 

You see the x, or in my case my daughters mother, you chit chat a few minutes. Some smiles, some empty gestures, but it is almost like talking to a ghost from your past, everyday, day in and day out.

What a weird thing to do. What a weird thing to have to subject ourselves to daily.

I dunno where I am going with this. Just wanted to type it out.

I just hate it.


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## canguy66 (Dec 18, 2011)

synthetic said:


> canguy,
> 
> do you think you may be lingering between the "depression" and "acceptance" stages of your grief?
> 
> I'm sure you're done with denial, anger, bargaining and almost all of depression. Maybe it's moving to the acceptance stage that you're having a bit of difficulty with.


Yes, I feel that's exactly where I am. Ups and downs, but there have been periods of indifference lately, which is a good sign. 

To me, acceptance is tied to letting go (pun intended). Getting there.


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## UpnDown (May 4, 2012)

Traggy said:


> The child drop off, that is what I want to talk about. It is almost like re-living a nightmare over and over again on a daily basis and it lasts for only a few brief minutes.
> 
> You see the x, or in my case my daughters mother, you chit chat a few minutes. Some smiles, some empty gestures, but it is almost like talking to a ghost from your past, everyday, day in and day out.
> 
> ...


You aren't alone with that! Every other week there mother drops the kids off before work and picks them up after work until the end of June. Then I go back to work myself and won't be seeing her nearly as much (or the kids for that matter).

But when you do see them, it's like a shovel to the face. She has complained on several occasions that it's 'not good for the children' if we don't chit chat and talk at the swaps. I have nothing to say to her, I'm not rude but I will not go out of my way to make BS talk.

Yet, there is no problem with her never calling when it's my week with them and this will be the 2nd week of mine where she probably won't even come by for the mid visitation.

Ghost of the past, that's all she is. All she will ever be now.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Traggy, 

I'm in the same boat and yes it's very tough. For those of us who have loved ones living in another state or country, I almost compare it to when you take them to the airport, say goodbye and watch them leave through the gates. Sitting inside my car, I see him leave with his mother as they enter the building and I wait and wait until I can't see him no more. It's very tough. It's almost like I lose him again and again (like a nightmare). 

I think with time it would become more of a routine and the feelings of sadness won't be so rampant. That's my hope.


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Try this mix men...
> 
> Plavix + Abilify + Zolft = Zero sex drive.
> 
> Works for me. Try it.


Oh well ... maybe that's what's wrong with me...
cymbalta + xanax = constantly in the mood!


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I can compensate Mama.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Took a trip up to Chicago this weekend. 

It was fun, until the last night and had a pretty terrible trigger.
We were outside playing around at this hotel and they had a barbeque pit that we were all around and people would come and go and cook all night. We hung out there all night had a few drinks and a really good time.

I had drank a little bit, but this couple came downstairs and the gal was very pretty and her fiance was very nice. I enjoyed them both and got to know them well..

As the night went on we all drank more and more and the fiance decided to go to bed. (Male) Well, he leaves and she stays and has more drinks with all of us, but I notice her paying attention to me a bit differently. 

She proceed to take her ring off and let me know how she doesn't really care about her engagement and that this is the third time she has been engaged. She then asks me to go on a walk. 

This set me off and I simply replied you need to go upstairs and cuddle your fiance. All I have been able to think of since this happened is my daughters mother and the OM and how easily and freely people can cheat and it scares me. 

So, we came back home, and sure enough my daughters mother was a little jealous I think that I was in chicago and she had no idea what I did. She was dressed to kill and looked great and was in a hurry to get back to her OM I could tell. After what I saw, not sure why, but this triggered me and jealousy, sadness, and hurt all began to flow in. 

The why wasn't I enough. Sure would be nice to have her dress up for me like that. The good old, why wasn't I enough. All those insecurities back in the blink of an eye.

I got my daughter, she could tell something was wrong, she sensed that I was in a weak moment, but I just stuck to the I am tired bit. 

I hate her for doing this to our family. 

Oh well, time to screw the head back on straight. Life kinda sucks sometimes


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Traggy, 

I understand how you feel. Like you, I think it would be hard for me to have ONS, be with someone who's already engaged/married. It would instantly remind me of what happened between OM and STBXW. 

You were making very good progress before this so keep marching on.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Ok Vent,

I am through my three day pity party with some carry over anger.

Why is it that I was not the one who initiated this divorce, but I am the only taking care of it all. From getting the child classes signed up for, to finishing up the uncontested plans and schedule, while she just runs off to blow the OM.

I have literally done everything for something that I never wanted, but at this point I feel if I don't do it, it will never get done.

What kind of ass backwards BS is this.

Anyway, 

Point two to crab about,

So, my daughter and I are doing these baby gym classes that I took the time to find sign her up for and take her to. My daughters mother asks me the other day if she can come along because she thinks she is missing out on events in her daughters life. 

THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DIVORCE AND NOW YOU ARE WANTING TO JUMP ON MY TIME WITH MY DAUGHTER TO FEEL LIKE A GREAT PARENT WHEN YOU CLEARLY HAVE HER EVERYDAY AND STILL DON"T DO CRAP WITH HER BUT GO TO YOUR PARENTS. TAKE THE TIME AND FIND YOUR OWN ACTIVITIES. THIS IS OUR TIME.

Phew, 

Man that really agitates me, of course I didn't have the balls to say anything to her about because I am such a failure still at protecting my boundaries, but this is just so unacceptable to me. She has her everyday, while I am at work, because she doesn't work. Has my daughter went to the zoo? no Has she taken her anywhere fun during the day? no. Have I, yes, and tons. Does it make me a better parent, no, but it makes me the one who takes initiative, like always in this entire relationship. 

Man, she pisses me off.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Feel better now?

Tell her no. She can't come. If you say yes to this she will want to be involved in other stuff too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## canguy66 (Dec 18, 2011)

I agree with Lifescript. You need to take the initiative and set boundaries for YOU.

You'll respect yourself, and she will respect you, too. You want to shake the "nice guy" stuff off? Here's a great place to start.


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## UpnDown (May 4, 2012)

I hear ya dude, I really do. I have been the one to do everything so far in my separation leading to divorce. She 'suggested' once that we get together and talk about things but at the time I wasn't ready and it was a good thing I said no. By saying no it gave myself the time to clear my head up and focus on what I wanted .. read my thread http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/46829-communication.html, especially the last part where I had a sit down with her last night.

It's hard I know, to separate everything. The raw emotion. But you need to say no to those types of things, especially when you feel it's just not right.

Things you sign the kids up for on YOUR time is simply that .. YOUR time. In the future, depending on the custody arrangement you may need to split up things like soccer etc for when it's each others times .. but if you go out of your way to schedule something for you and your daughter then she has absolutely no say in it.

Stand your ground by asserting yourself, but you must stay calm. Give default answers like "I'm not okay with that" and that is literally ALL you need to do. 

Don't let her start to ruin the things you want to accomplish as a father. The last thing you need is her on your mind while you are doing things like the gym because it's just going to diminish the good feelings you are trying to create.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lifescript said:


> Feel better now?
> 
> Tell her no. She can't come. If you say yes to this she will want to be involved in other stuff too.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


"I'm not ok with you coming."

Schedule the events and go without her.


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## jpr (Dec 14, 2011)

When I enrolled in those little gym classes, a part of me sort of wanted to invite my ex. (I was not as far along on this journey as I am now). So, I was still missing "being a family"...and during the class I caught myself sort of longing for my son's father to be there just so that I had someone I could share the experience with.

I was actually considering inviting him to join us. I talked to my counselor about it, and she urged me to not to do that. She said that was my special time with my son--our special bonding time. My ex was choosing to divorce me, and we should not "pretend" we are an intact family. At her advice, I just stopped even considering inviting my ex to special events--like the Easter Bunny or our church carnival.

This is your special time with your daughter. You don't need to explain yourself to your ex. Just tell her that you don't want her attending. There is no need to explain or defend your decision.

My ex wanted to go to the Easter Bunny with me and my son, and I just told him, "No, I would prefer to take him on my own". Period. 

He was disappointed, but I didn't respond to his disappointment...even though I really wanted to tell him "This is what happens, you butt-head You left us! We are divorcing! You are boinking a young woman. I don't want to see your ugly face, you stinking pile of poo!"....but, I refrained. 

Sometimes, I think it best to just try to use as few as words as possible with our exes. Have some boundaries and don't let her cross those boundaries...and don't feel like you have to defend yourself to her or explain your reasoning to her.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jpr said:


> When I enrolled in those little gym classes, a part of me sort of wanted to invite my ex. (I was not as far along on this journey as I am now). So, I was still missing "being a family"...and during the class I caught myself sort of longing for my son's father to be there just so that I had someone I could share the experience with.
> 
> I was actually considering inviting him to join us. I talked to my counselor about it, and she urged me to not to do that. She said that was my special time with my son--our special bonding time. My ex was choosing to divorce me, and we should not "pretend" we are an intact family. At her advice, I just stopped even considering inviting my ex to special events--like the Easter Bunny or our church carnival.
> 
> ...


jpr,

I'd like to emphasize your last paragraph.

Talking very little and saying plenty is key.

I scheduled it without your knowledge.

Why?

"I'm not ok with you coming"

Why?

"I'm just not"

This is an example of emotional communication.

The long-winded explanations trying to convince some unreasonable person that you're being reasonable?

Phuck that.

You owe yourself better than that.

Do you hear me Traggy?


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Yeah I do, my big hang up is making waves and the fear of the divorce becoming a monster to deal with. I know her temper when things do not go her ways and I know immediately the hell that I am going to get from this.

The woman is not all together. Even today I asked my baby girl for a hug and she said.. "Well I guess, ok" 

Like I was asking her. Come on. Why make a joke about something like this? I know me not giving her two seconds of my time on pick ups and not communicating anything outside of our daughter is eating her alive, but she doesn't deserve me to be loving and caring. She lost that the day she let someone else in her heart and elsewhere.

I love how I always feel the need to explain myself and smooth things over. I love how I can not just say no, and not feel the need to explain why. 

I gotta learn how to do this. It is just when you deal with the same person over and over again for years on end, it is a tuff habit to break.


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## UpnDown (May 4, 2012)

Traggy said:


> Yeah I do, my big hang up is making waves and the fear of the divorce becoming a monster to deal with. I know her temper when things do not go her ways and I know immediately the hell that I am going to get from this.
> 
> The woman is not all together. Even today I asked my baby girl for a hug and she said.. "Well I guess, ok"
> 
> ...


Traggy, I was doing the same dude. I would go into long winded reasoning sprees to her all the damn time. Like for some reason I was expected to. Commit yourself to it the first time, then the second and after that it starts becoming a new habit. 

I was so fricking codependant it makes me sick still thinking about it, but I use that as the driving force to simply say 'no' now.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

"I'm not ok with that"

When you first consider saying/doing this, your right brain doesn't want to let you.

That's how far in the weeds you are.

Think about it.

Your perception of self is so screwed up that what you think about it doesn't matter unless this borderline psychotic agrees with you?


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

It is not a matter of her agreeing with me, more so, a matter of not dealing with the consequences that come from her not agreeing.

It is pathetic, but I feel keeping emotions in line until the divorce is set in stone would be the best option. The last thing I want is a long fight because in the end no one wins, but I know the day those are signed I am done done done


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Traggy said:


> It is not a matter of her agreeing with me, more so, a matter of not dealing with the consequences that come from her not agreeing.
> 
> It is pathetic, but I feel keeping emotions in line until the divorce is set in stone would be the best option. The last thing I want is a long fight because in the end no one wins, but I know the day those are signed I am done done done


Traggy,

May I offer an alternative?

Your wife is a perfect candidate for you to "practice" on taking care of yourself. Listen to your insides when you deal with her. When you are "not ok" with something, tell her.

Calm - dispassionate - strong.

You'll start feeling better about yourself immediately.


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## UpnDown (May 4, 2012)

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

I cannot agree more with what Conrad just said. I did it, it helped SO much. Yes, you will still get the backslides here and there (I already have) but the ride back up the rollercoaster is just that much better when you have something like that to rely on.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Well, I had the opportunity to practice this yesterday.

She came over to see our daughter. I have been struggling with a sickness for almost a week now, a very nasty sinus infection. It was my weekend and everything has been pleasant. 

She walks in and literally begins to tell me what and how I should be living my life. Over stepping boundaries left and right. Telling me about her boyfriend and how he will probably be around my daughter once the divorce is finalized. Letting me know how happy she is and how she isn't depressed anymore and thinking about killing herself every other day. Wanting to change my daughters schedule so that I have her every weekend. Asking me if I am bitter and angry at her for what she has done...

Yeah, it was a bombardment. I am not sure what she was trying to accomplish and yes it hurt like hell. I didn't show most of it and I asked her to stop talking about these things because they were things that I didn't want to hear about or talk about. 

The one that got me, the one that set me over the edge, was when she tried to get me to agree to having her every weekend. When I said I do not like the way that works out because I would be losing days during the week with her, she simply said to cut the BS the only reason you won't agree to it because you want your every other weekend to play. Making me out to be a bad father.

I work all day, have my daughter every night during the week, and have her every other weekend. The x doesn't work, so everyday is a weekend where she can run off to the OM and make things just grand and happy in her life. I told her that I would take my daughter every weekend only if I didn't have to give up anytime during the week. She didn't like that. 

What pisses me off is the manipulation. She wants me to take my daughter on the weekends so her and the OM can have a F palace every week. However, since I didn't like the idea, I get the projection of needing time to play put upon me and I bought into it for a minute. I cried after she left and it pissed me off that I did. 

I can not believe how I hold onto this woman's words sometimes like they are the truth. I guess because I am not entirely over her yet and I use to seek some validation for my persona from her during the "happy times" if you want to call them that.

F her seriously. What a cruel joke of a woman. I have never met a more UN-empathetic person in my entire life.


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## MyselfAgain (Apr 21, 2012)

Oh Traggy, I want so badly to hug you...do not feel badly for crying, sometimes it is simply a stress relief. You needed that. She is trying to assuage her guilt, and you did GREAT -- you took the high road, and are staying emotionally healthy. This is no small feat, you should feel proud. You ex loser simply by living such an emotionally unhealthy lifestyle. I am glad your daughter spends so much time at your house!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Traggy,

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/47834-dynamics-change-how-move.html

In the Brotherhood of the Bird.

(BTW - the hell with the b*tch)



Traggy said:


> Well, I had the opportunity to practice this yesterday.
> 
> She came over to see our daughter. I have been struggling with a sickness for almost a week now, a very nasty sinus infection. It was my weekend and everything has been pleasant.
> 
> ...


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Traggy,

This is how they work. You are entitled to have your own personal life. It can't be all about your daughter. Wao, that would be great for her to have all weekends off by herself. Why was she asking for the change, what was her reasoning?

STBXW wants us to do something together Sunday with the kid. Im now working Saturdays too to help financially so you could say thats the only day every two weeks I have off. The other sunday I have my son so its not like I can do whatever I want. I feel like saying no.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lifescript said:


> Traggy,
> 
> This is how they work. You are entitled to have your own personal life. It can't be all about your daughter. Wao, that would be great for her to have all weekends off by herself. Why was she asking for the change, what was her reasoning?
> 
> ...


*
THEN SAY NO!*

You're not ok with her scheduling your days off.

Tell her that.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

> F her seriously. What a cruel joke of a woman. I have never met a more UN-empathetic person in my entire life.


You obviously haven't met my wife.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Conrad, 

LOL. You made me laugh. I did, I told her I can't make it. It's great when you learn to say no.

Synthetic, 

Listen to me. You will be better off without her and really thank God you don't have kids with her meaning you can completely detach. Most of us dont have that luxury.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lifescript said:


> Conrad,
> 
> LOL. You made me laugh. I did, I told her I can't make it. It's great when you learn to say no.


It's liberating, especially when your reflex is "yes"


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Hang in there Traggy. You'll get through this and the b!tch will have less and less pull on your life. She's a loser and she knows it, that's why she has to run you down. She cannot make it on her own, so let her sugar daddy foot the bill. He deserves her.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

I read this entire thread for the first time.

I was really struck by what Traggy noticed the day after she moved out. He really didn't have anything substantive to do.

In other words, what he'd been doing for 4 entire years was based on what she wanted him to do.

This is very helpful blogging for any recovering niceguy.

The hell with the b*tch.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Conrad said:


> I read this entire thread for the first time.
> 
> I was really struck by what Traggy noticed the day after she moved out. He really didn't have anything substantive to do.
> 
> ...


Thank you for reading. I am going to look back on this after I print it all out and read it from time to time. You have been a tremendous help.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Update:

Well, the child classes are July 2nd and 3rd, than it is filing time. 

Naturally, my daughters mother has been letting me know all about her new life.... I sometimes laugh at myself, thinking about how much I do not care and if she only knew. 

She will still make this self-validating comments from time to time. Like hearing me tell my daughter she is beautiful and she will respond "Like her mommy?" 

LOL

Oh well, it obvious has some effect on me because I remembered it. 

Anyway, things have been pretty smooth. Been dating and such, been going to church still, been keeping busy with and without my daughter. 

Things are OK. I am a bit lost from time to time, with moments of not knowing what the hell I am suppose to be doing with a touch of fear pulling me back into my past. All normal, but just different. 

I went on a fantastic date Saturday, with a beautiful lady to a wonderful Greek restaurant. Momo's if any of you are in St. Louis. It was something my daughters mother would have been against because it was a tab expensive, but the date was worth every penny. 

This girl is wonderful, but things are going slow, the way they are suppose to be.

I am still exercising consistently and really like the way I look. Probably for one of the first times in my life. 

Still will never understand this, not suppose to, but I really just feel sometimes that things are so different that I am not in control of my life anymore. Just a bit out of control, and I usually feel like that when I do not have my daughter. Go figure...

Anyway, my new count down is July 2 and 3rd. Two hours each. Haircut, baby gym, exercise, game of thrones are the plans for today. 

Take care all, I hope all is going well in your lives.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Traggy, thanks so much for giving us an update. Sounds like you are doing much better. Am glad to hear you had such a good time at Momo's. I lived in St. Louis many years ago but never had the pleasure of going there. As to things going slow with the girl, yes, that is the way things are supposed to be when you are dating an emotionally available woman. Instead of starting out like gangbusters and fireworks, it will be a steady and slowly increasing burn. Like you, I keep telling myself to take it slow and not expect the instant fireworks that are such a red flag.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Traggy, 

I guess you feel you are not in control because you are living a life you didn't ask for or intended to live. You didnt ask to be single again, your daughter's mother gave you no choice. Glad to hear about your date and keep updating us.


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## proudwidaddy (Dec 26, 2011)

Traggy,
Brother I'm happy that you are looking forward to these dates for filling, as opposed to fearing them. I spent yesterday moving into my new place, and in 6 days I will be officially divorced.

Six months ago I was afraid of this date, now I am embracing it.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> Traggy,
> 
> I guess you feel you are not in control because you are living a life you didn't ask for or intended to live. You didnt ask to be single again, your daughter's mother gave you no choice. Glad to hear about your date and keep updating us.


It is just that I expected my life to be so much different than it is now. This is what I get for planning my life instead of living it.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Can you more specific? What would you do different now? I feel is good to plan and set goals for the future (buying a house, self improvement, etc). But I think you're talking about something else here, right?


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Oh yes.

I am talking about being married. I never expected to get a divorce. I have said this many times that divorce is one of my greatest fears and I do not believe in it.

I have always planned for the future. Get married, have a child, grow old, have grand children, die.

The American Dream. What I expected my life to be. A part of me still wants that, but I am slowly realizing just because life has taken a different direction, it does not necessarily mean its a bad thing. I just don't know what the hell to do with myself now. My dream was to get married and have a family and now that it is all gone. Leaves me in a uncomfortable spot. I have accepted it, I just don't know what to do with it now. I don't know what to strive and dream for anymore.


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## MyselfAgain (Apr 21, 2012)

The same thing, if it is what you still want. I am almost 34 and I refuse to give up on that exact same dream...just need to find a guy who has the same vision!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Dream on Traggy. 

You have a beautiful baby girl. A house. You only need a new hot wife w/ principles and integrity.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

MyselfAgain said:


> The same thing, if it is what you still want. I am almost 34 and I refuse to give up on that exact same dream...just need to find a guy who has the same vision!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, but you kind of gotta admit the magic has been sucked out of it all.


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## proudwidaddy (Dec 26, 2011)

Magic is what you make of it Traggy....I still believe in the magic of Christmas, the innocence of children. 

This past week I've been lucky enough to have a few situations where I've experienced butterflies in my stomach from talking to someone, didn't think that would happen again.

You gotta believe


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## MyselfAgain (Apr 21, 2012)

Me too, what a small world! It is nice to know that magic exists elsewhere...you just havr to be open to see it. Maybe your wife was not the magician you thought she was...but I bet another woman out there will be all you want and more. I am praying that you will get your dream, Traggy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Traggy said:


> Yeah, but you kind of gotta admit the magic has been sucked out of it all.


This is a healthy point of view.

Magic doesn't "really" exist.

But, if you keep your wits about you, relationships can be magical.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Well, I started the child divorce classes, I have one more tonight and then its divorce time.

I was a little nervous going last night, maybe a little embarrassed because of my failed marriage, but then I realized everyone else in the room was going though the same thing and I was being silly.

It was pretty painless, a little "campy", and I didn't learn anything that any good parent would already know. 

I left feeling a little upset, but more so for some of the people that were in the room. There were tons of people that just opened up and starting telling their stories. Of course, it was always the other persons fault. People playing the victim. 

Then I realized how I am in a better place than a majority of these people because of this site and because of what I have learned. Pretty thankful for that.

My daughters mother has been weird a few times lately. I just brush it off. She still seeks some comfort from me, but I just do not partake in those self validating conversations anymore.

Anyway, been dating, been going to church, trying to stay out of trouble. 

I hope all is well in all of your worlds.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Hey Traggy,

Saw your latest pic (the one the girls were rambling about) ... Dude you look like a different guy, more confident. Love the Zoolander movie. 

Q. Your daughter's mother moved to her own place. Is she working now, what kind of financial support are you giving her? How would you deal with a situation where she's telling you she's behind on the rent, don't have money for food and late on the bills? She tells you this crying.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> Hey Traggy,
> 
> Saw your latest pic (the one the girls were rambling about) ... Dude you look like a different guy, more confident. Love the Zoolander movie.
> 
> Q. Your daughter's mother moved to her own place. Is she working now, what kind of financial support are you giving her? How would you deal with a situation where she's telling you she's behind on the rent, don't have money for food and late on the bills? She tells you this crying.


I make a bit of money and do not care about it at all. I currently give her 750 a month and split almost 100k with her. She is financially sound. However, she has to get a job and she knows that, if she doesn't I will keep handing her the checks. I will pay for anything and everything daughter related until she works and I am just fine with that. What I am giving her now is just cutting into what I use to be able to save.

If she ever gets behind on rent and/or anything however, her father is extremely wealthy and she would turn to him, not me. 

I know what you are getting at though, but that scenario does not really pertain to my situation. If that ever was the case though, I would tell her no. Especially with how much money that I know she has.


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## jpr (Dec 14, 2011)

Hey Traggy,

I am glad that you are getting your Child Divorce Classes overwith. I am sure that it is hard to go through, though. I have to wait a year post-separation to file for divorce in my state...but at least I don't have to attend classes.

My ex and I went to co-parenting counseling when he first left me. But, it was mostly just served as an opportunity for him to justify his affair and continue adding on to his manifesto of reasons why I was never good enough for him. 

After working with my individual counselor, I finally got up the ba!!s to shut him down in one of our sessions, and we haven't been back since.

I don't know how I would deal with it, though, if I were stuck paying my ex child support....especially if this is not what you wanted. I don't think I could take that. 

I was re-reading through this thread just now, and I just realized that our timelines are very similar. My son is about 1 month older than your daughter. Our stories are very similar.

My ex just emailed me and asked me to work out a holiday schedule with him. He wants to take our son back to STL for Thanksgiving. Ouch. The reality of our situation hit me just then. During these summer months, it is nice because I have my son ALL the time...almost. I sort of have been viewing my ex as a babysitter lately...not really a co-parent. But, that has been his choice...and a choice I have actually been happy with. But, when he emailed me about our holiday schedule, I feel like I have been slapped back to reality. Due to his decisions and choices in life, I will not be spending every Christmas morning with my son. I will not be able to play "The Easter Bunny" every year.  ....and that stinks. 

This is not what I wanted. 

bah.

Sorry, I rambled...

But, I wanted to say I understand that those Child Classes must have been a little hard to sit through...but, it sounds like you are in a really good place...a healthy place. It sounds like you are moving forward in a positive direction...and that is great!


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Traggy said:


> I make a bit of money and do not care about it at all. I currently give her 750 a month and split almost 100k with her. She is financially sound. However, she has to get a job and she knows that, if she doesn't I will keep handing her the checks. I will pay for anything and everything daughter related until she works and I am just fine with that. What I am giving her now is just cutting into what I use to be able to save.
> 
> If she ever gets behind on rent and/or anything however, her father is extremely wealthy and she would turn to him, not me.
> 
> I know what you are getting at though, but that scenario does not really pertain to my situation. If that ever was the case though, I would tell her no. Especially with how much money that I know she has.


You're right. The scenarios our different. Thanks for the input. Glad to see you're doing ok.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

You and jpr owe me new sheets dude.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jpr (Dec 14, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> You and jpr owe me new sheets dude.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


bah!..new sheets?!...who used the sheets?

....I like it on the couch.


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## proudwidaddy (Dec 26, 2011)

Traggy.......you wanna split some money with me? We can work out schedules where cuddling is involved, but I draw the line at being forced to watch Cardinals games.


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## Conrad&Janie (Jul 2, 2012)

proudwidaddy said:


> Traggy.......you wanna split some money with me? We can work out schedules where cuddling is involved, but I draw the line at being forced to watch Cardinals games.


And yet, he watches Brewers' games for free.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

jpr said:


> Hey Traggy,
> 
> I am glad that you are getting your Child Divorce Classes overwith. I am sure that it is hard to go through, though. I have to wait a year post-separation to file for divorce in my state...but at least I don't have to attend classes.
> 
> ...


I look at the child support and the money that I give as paying a baby sitter. With the amount of time I get my daughter it is well worth it to me. 

I made it through the classes quite well, but they still really had an negative impact on me. There was this one girl in particular that just looked a mess from it all. I could see the stress, pain, and anger in her eyes. I could see that she was not coping well with it all and it broke my heart. I wanted to reach out to her, and tell her to visit this site to maybe help her along, but I just didn't have the balls to and I worried she would take offense to my "perception" of her situation.

After the final class, I went out to my car and saw this girl with her head down crying and praying in her car. 

I got the hell out of there immediately with tears in my eyes, not for me, but for her. I probably will never forget her 

I dunno, I have been really angry since the class. Really pissed off at my daughters mother. Just angry in general. I feel out of control and it is really starting to piss me off. 

My daughter has started sleeping like hell, she cries every time I drop her off and runs to me when I pick her up. I have no idea why she hates being over there so much and it is really stressing me the hell out as well. 

This girl I have been seeing is latching on and I don't know what the hell to do because I enjoy her company. She dropped the damn love word the other night. WTF am I suppose to do with that. I guess I will have to hurt someone's feelings now and that pisses me the hell off as well.

Man, I really don't want anything serious at all. I do not want to answer to anyone. I want to do what I want to do and whom I want to do.  I can tell that I am not ready to trust, love, open up, be close, or anything of the sort. I just want to live in the day and have fun with people. WHY DID SHE HAVE TO SAY THE LOVE WORD!

lol, oh well. I am done for now. Sorry for this rambling mess, just really annoyed with life right now.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

proudwidaddy said:


> Traggy.......you wanna split some money with me? We can work out schedules where cuddling is involved, but I draw the line at being forced to watch Cardinals games.


Anytime, anyplace, anywhere


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

jpr said:


> bah!..new sheets?!...who used the sheets?
> 
> ....I like it on the couch.


I love couch. Especially if its the perfect height.


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## Conrad&Janie (Jul 2, 2012)

proudwidaddy said:


> Traggy.......you wanna split some money with me? We can work out schedules where cuddling is involved, but I draw the line at being forced to watch Cardinals games.


You guys are so metro.


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## Conrad&Janie (Jul 2, 2012)

Traggy said:


> I look at the child support and the money that I give as paying a baby sitter. With the amount of time I get my daughter it is well worth it to me.
> 
> I made it through the classes quite well, but they still really had an negative impact on me. There was this one girl in particular that just looked a mess from it all. I could see the stress, pain, and anger in her eyes. I could see that she was not coping well with it all and it broke my heart. I wanted to reach out to her, and tell her to visit this site to maybe help her along, but I just didn't have the balls to and I worried she would take offense to my "perception" of her situation.
> 
> ...


Traggy,

The ultimate battle in life is not with Brewers' fans. It's with self.

What you're noting in yourself is the "rescuer" impulse. It pisses you off that people are so cold and brutal. We're taught to be good people and to make a difference.

A healthy boundary is on giving people help with finding the tools for themselves (website suggestion) and not being concerned whether they actually do it or not!

That's on them. Once you start to own what they actually DO in response, you end up exactly like the girl you wanted to help

Same with your date. She's free to fall in love with you if she pleases. But, that's on her. Just be honest. Don't own it.

I mean.. WTF... what right-minded lovely would NOT fall in love with a stud Cardinals' fan? That's on her.. not you. Just tell the truth and let her do her thing - without you owning it.

There is a pattern here.

Hang in there. Let's talk it out.


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## jpr (Dec 14, 2011)

Traggy said:


> I love couch. Especially if its the perfect height.


wowzers!


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## jpr (Dec 14, 2011)

Hi Traggy,

I agree with C&J...the girl you are dating needs to own her own feelings. I assume that she knows where you are at in your life--and frankly, it is a little strange for her to be throwing that l-word around. ....are you really THAT awesome??? 

Just kidding...

But...really...it doesn't make you a "bad" guy to be honest and say where you are at in your life. I had to get over this too...I had a conversation with the firefighter that sort of made me feel like poop ...at first...but, it is good to be honest, and you really shouldn't feel badly for being honest and authentic with your feelings.

I know you *think* you are being the "bad guy" by not reciprocating her feelings of "love"...but, you both are adults. I am sure she can handle it if you tell her where you stand.

Good luck.

..p.s....I totally *get* the anger. I have been very angry and a little sad lately for similar reasons. I am sorry that you (and your daughter) have to go through this.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Traggy, 

I've been in similar situations. It's heartbreakign when you see people really struggling. Like Conrad says, that's the rescuer in us acting out too so you have to be careful.

Just be honest with this girl. In the end she will appreciate the honesty. I once had to tell a girl who was really falling in love way to soon. I told her where I was at. Later on she said she appreciated my honesty and respected me for it. 

Can imagine how frustrating it is to see that your daughter dont like being at her mom's place. Glad I don't have that problem. Just observe the situation.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Conrad&Janie said:


> Traggy,
> 
> The ultimate battle in life is not with Brewers' fans. It's with self.
> 
> ...


I am overall doing really well, I think that these classes triggered me and really made me see the inevitable train coming down the tracks. Trucking along. With the added stress from the gal I am "dating" it is just over whelming me. 

I will have to be honest. I have tried to be honest with this person I am dating, to the point of telling her we do not need to do this anymore, but then I begin to miss her a bit and she will contact me via text message and I cave. I am doing the complete push away, bring her back in. It hurts her feelings and I am a POS for doing it, but I have so many walls up and I am so not ready for what this gal is looking for that it scares the hell out of me. I really do enjoy her company, but I am not over the loss of my last relationship and there is no way I am stable enough for another one. 

There is a connection, but it is physical, right now. We have fun together and it is simple and safe. Well it was.....

I don't know how to just walk away though. 

Yeah, I know poor me.


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## MyselfAgain (Apr 21, 2012)

Oh Traggy...she might be infatuated. That teenage butterfly feeling due to sexual bonding and plain old attachment. It likely isn't real love, but it probably feels much more intense. I know you will do the right thing. I know it sucks being lonely, I sure as hell am, but you might be learning here that it's best to truly grieve and heal after one relationship before starting another. I am taking my own advice. Not dating until I am truly ready, no matter how much I think I need comfort/companionship/sex right now. I hear Proud's looking for a girlfriend, maybe he will wait for you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jpr (Dec 14, 2011)

Traggy said:


> I am overall doing really well, I think that these classes triggered me and really made me see the inevitable train coming down the tracks. Trucking along. With the added stress from the gal I am "dating" it is just over whelming me.
> 
> I* will have to be honest. I have tried to be honest with this person I am dating, to the point of telling her we do not need to do this anymore, but then I begin to miss her a bit and she will contact me via text message and I cave. I am doing the complete push away, bring her back in. It hurts her feelings and I am a POS for doing it, but I have so many walls up and I am so not ready for what this gal is looking for that it scares the hell out of me. * I really do enjoy her company, but I am not over the loss of my last relationship and there is no way I am stable enough for another one.
> 
> ...


This was very interesting...because I think that I sort of have been doing the same thing with the firefighter. ...except, he has actually done the opposite of what your girl as done. It sounds like the girl you have been dating has gotten more attached to you ..she has probably been paying more attention to your actions than your words...if you text her a bunch, give her attention, or act like you want to spend a lot of time with her, then she is probably taking that as a sign that you have feelings for her, and she is probably ignoring your words.

The firefighter, on the other hand, has listened to my words, and I can feel that he is not as attached to me as he once was. He doesn't call as much, doesn't really text as much...he still wants to see me (...sometimes...)...but, he is acting EXACTLY how I told him I wanted him to act. He is giving me EXACTLY what I said I wanted in a "relationship" right now--fun, nothing serious...nothing exclusive. But for some reason I am left wanting more.......ugh. We have a great physical connection.. and we have fun and he understands a lot of what I am going through. But, I *know* he is not Mr. Right. ...just Mr. Right-Now. ....I think he knows it too. I feel him detaching, and I am currently fighting the urge to pull him back in.... Because, I know the "healthiest" thing for me is to let him detach....but, part of me doesn't want to let him.  ...part of me liked the attention I was getting from him...and I feel like a poopy person for that. 

So, I guess I just wanted to tell you that I understand the "push and pull" of a supposedly casual relationship. It is hard to find that middle-ground where both parties can be satisfied...and I am not sure if it is possible to have a satisfying semi-casual relationship. (...at least not on both ends)


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

jpr said:


> This was very interesting...because I think that I sort of have been doing the same thing with the firefighter. ...except, he has actually done the opposite of what your girl as done. It sounds like the girl you have been dating has gotten more attached to you ..she has probably been paying more attention to your actions than your words...if you text her a bunch, give her attention, or act like you want to spend a lot of time with her, then she is probably taking that as a sign that you have feelings for her, and she is probably ignoring your words.
> 
> The firefighter, on the other hand, has listened to my words, and I can feel that he is not as attached to me as he once was. He doesn't call as much, doesn't really text as much...he still wants to see me (...sometimes...)...but, he is acting EXACTLY how I told him I wanted him to act. He is giving me EXACTLY what I said I wanted in a "relationship" right now--fun, nothing serious...nothing exclusive. But for some reason I am left wanting more.......ugh. We have a great physical connection.. and we have fun and he understands a lot of what I am going through. But, I *know* he is not Mr. Right. ...just Mr. Right-Now. ....I think he knows it too. I feel him detaching, and I am currently fighting the urge to pull him back in.... Because, I know the "healthiest" thing for me is to let him detach....but, part of me doesn't want to let him.  ...part of me liked the attention I was getting from him...and I feel like a poopy person for that.
> 
> So, I guess I just wanted to tell you that I understand the "push and pull" of a supposedly casual relationship. It is hard to find that middle-ground where both parties can be satisfied...and I am not sure if it is possible to have a satisfying semi-casual relationship. (...at least not on both ends)



Yup, essentially we are using someone. This isn't who we are, but here we are doing it.

I don't get it lol


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## Conrad&Janie (Jul 2, 2012)

You're not using someone if you're being honest about where you're at.


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## proudwidaddy (Dec 26, 2011)

@Myselfagain.....what is this about waiting me waiting for Traggy? I wait for no one!! He will have to chase me


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## Matt1720 (May 7, 2012)

Conrad&Janie said:


> You're not using someone if you're being honest about where you're at.



"I'm not emotionally available"

Her: "Well then how are you avai...put that away"


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## MyselfAgain (Apr 21, 2012)

So Traggy, update???
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

I need help immediately.

So I wake up this morning and I find a text from my daughters mother.

"Do you miss me?"


How do I respond? What kind of loaded BS question is that?


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

MyselfAgain said:


> So Traggy, update???
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, I have chosen the weak path of ignoring it for right now because I am really enjoying her company and when it is brought up again I am going to squash it. So far, so good.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Traggy said:


> I need help immediately.
> 
> So I wake up this morning and I find a text from my daughters mother.
> 
> ...


Do you miss her? I think the answer is no, right? 

Just tell her that. She's fishing trying to see if you still have feelings for her and to see if she still has power over you. She might miss you in her own crazy way and may want to know if the feeling is mutual. I think best things is to ignore the question or say no.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> Do you miss her? I think the answer is no, right?
> 
> Just tell her that. She's fishing trying to see if you still have feelings for her and to see if she still has power over you. She might miss you in her own crazy way and may want to know if the feeling is mutual. I think best things is to ignore the question or say no.


Hell no. I do not miss the cheating, unloving, cold, heartless, individual that she has become.

However, I do not understand why the hell she asked me that? 

It really really pisses me off that she literally tore me down to a point of madness, cheated, broke apart my family, moved out and now asks me if I miss that?

Is she out of her damn mind?


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

I know what you mean. I'd say something like: "What do you think? Of course not."


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Ignore her. Don't answer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad&Janie (Jul 2, 2012)

Traggy,

>>Hell no. I do not miss the cheating, unloving, cold, heartless, individual that she has become.<<

Tell her exactly that.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Conrad&Janie said:


> Traggy,
> 
> >>Hell no. I do not miss the cheating, unloving, cold, heartless, individual that she has become.<<
> 
> Tell her exactly that.


I would if we were not co-parenting a toddler. In a heart beat.


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## Conrad&Janie (Jul 2, 2012)

Traggy said:


> I would if we were not co-parenting a toddler. In a heart beat.


Think about all the threads here with guys simply craving the opportunity to tell "her" something.

My advice to them is to "wait until she asks".

She just did.


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## jpr (Dec 14, 2011)

Oh Traggy...I wouldn't respond. There is no correct response there...and it won't do any good to tell her how you really feel. Not really. You guys have to work together for the sake of your daughter. 

My ex sent me an email a few days ago ...he stated that he has realized that he was wrong to blame me for "problems that really are at the core" of him. ...and that I deserved better and he didn't realize it until now. 

I don't know what to think about his email...and I am trying not to think about it too much. It just brings me down. ...I'll set aside some time to process through it later. But, for right now, I am placing in on a back-burner in my mind. 

Your divorce is nearing, and your ex is probably questioning her actions over the last few months. She is probably really missing what you had. 

It is tragic. ....and so sad. 


But, in my opinion, there is no correct response here---unless you want her back.


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## proudwidaddy (Dec 26, 2011)

traggy at least your ex appears to realize what she has lost, I doubt mine ever will


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

proudwidaddy said:


> traggy at least your ex appears to realize what she has lost, I doubt mine ever will


Ehhh. Don't say that sh*t. One day she will, but by that time you won't care anymore.


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## jpr (Dec 14, 2011)

Bandit is right. Once you reach the point of no return, you don't want your ex to come graveling back. At that point, it just brings up bad feelings and memories....and it plays with your mind.

If you're truly trying to move forward, this [email protected] just screws with your head and can drive you nuts. ....and it is just sad.

In my case, I don't think my ex necessarily wants _me_ back. I think he is just finally realizing what all he gave up--his son, his dog, his house, his worldly possessions, his security, his reputation, etc....and I think he is realizing that it wasn't really worth it. ...and perhaps, he is regretting that he didn't at least try to "make it work". 

But, personally,I feel like I am reached "the point of no return". ...and I have _never_ felt like that with anything or anybody in my entire life. I always give 2nd/3rd/4th/5th chances to people in hopes that they will change for the better. But, with my ex....well...I just feel like I just can't go back there. I just can't hold out hope for him anymore.


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## Conrad&Janie (Jul 2, 2012)

I don't think there's any reason to play nice.

Silence is an ok response.

Perhaps, "I'm not ok with that question".


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

jpr said:


> Bandit is right. Once you reach the point of no return, you don't want your ex to come graveling back. At that point, it just brings up bad feelings and memories....and it plays with your mind.
> 
> If you're truly trying to move forward, this [email protected] just screws with your head and can drive you nuts. ....and it is just sad.
> 
> ...


This is precisely what I think she is going through and why I am no longer giving it a response.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

proudwidaddy said:


> traggy at least your ex appears to realize what she has lost, I doubt mine ever will


Like I said last night, 

My daughters mother asked me if

"I missed her"

Not that she missed me. She has to much pride and to much face to save to ever admit that maybe she did a few things wrong, so instead she asks me a question she knows that I will not answer, so she can tell herself that I do not give a crap and make herself feel better.

Your X still has to much of a hold on your self validation. It does not matter one way or the other what she thinks about you anymore. What you had at a time was real, it is just over with now. You are going to be fine buddy, but you have to be the one to realize that. There is nobody that can get you there besides yourself.


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## Conrad&Janie (Jul 2, 2012)

Traggy,

I'm thinking a couple Cardinals' fans should show our Brewer fan some lumber.

What say you?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Proud does this. He likes to wallow in self pity and "woe is me" self-doubt. Been that way from the beginning. 

.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Just gotta not feed that wolf. I love imaging that the wolves are fighting and when I am being a pissy pants I just say stop feeding the bad one. It actually helps.

(The old native American story)


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## jpr (Dec 14, 2011)

Traggy said:


> Just gotta not feed that wolf. I love imaging that the wolves are fighting and when I am being a pissy pants I just say stop feeding the bad one. It actually helps.
> 
> (The old native American story)


I do this sort of thing too...you have to sort of "re-train" your brain....when my thoughts start to go to the "what if's" and "should have been's" stop up a mental "STOP" sign and just stop the thoughts. It was really hard to do at first, and it took a lot of willpower to stop the train of "self-pity", "victim-hood" , and "wallowing". I was indulging in those kind of destructive thoughts for so long, I started to really hate myself. I was becoming such a sad-sack.  

It is really hard, and takes a lot of work, but it is possible to re-train your brain. (in most cases...fortunately, I don't suffer from clinical depression or anxiety...so, this sort of thought-training-program worked for me). 

Those self-indulgent "what if's" and "woe is me" thoughts, though, have to stop.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Traggy said:


> Just gotta not feed that wolf. I love imaging that the wolves are fighting and when I am being a pissy pants I just say stop feeding the bad one. It actually helps.
> 
> (The old native American story)


I do this also. Thanks JPR for this story.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Well the cool thing about it, is it gives you an object to give the thoughts to and gives you the thought that you are doing something wrong my feeding the bad one. 

I love it.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Not much to talk about really. Had a great weekend with my daughter. Did some more volunteering selling some lemon shake ups at the city bbq cook off. 

Daughter and I swam, shopped, ate, went to the BBQ, and just generally hung out. I think she had a good weekend. Someday soon she will be able to tell me!

Anyway, we finally have the agreement done on the custody and now we should be filing the paper work soon. Just a few more kinks. 

I have to be honest I am getting to the point of not really needing this site anymore. It has helped me a great deal, but I can see the time to move on is closing in quickly. 

This site has been absolutely amazing and the people I have met have been such a great help for growth I have been truely blessed to have met you!

I am not leaving yet, but I fear this might just be my last blog post, until the D is finalized.


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## unsure78 (Oct 17, 2011)

Traggy thats a good thing...


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Traggy said:


> Not much to talk about really. Had a great weekend with my daughter. Did some more volunteering selling some lemon shake ups at the city bbq cook off.
> 
> Daughter and I swam, shopped, ate, went to the BBQ, and just generally hung out. I think she had a good weekend. Someday soon she will be able to tell me!
> 
> ...


This is all great news.

Sounds like you're in much better spirits than Mike Matheny.


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## proudwidaddy (Dec 26, 2011)

Traggy I feel the same way, I feel that the time has come for me to live more in the real world. I will keep in touch with the special people I've made friends with, but it's been depressing to keep reading about new people going through all the trama that a divorce causes.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I've been thinking about moving on too. I don't even venture into CWI anymore. Makes me ill reading some of those threads. 

Good to hear from you Proud! How is life as a bachelor?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MyselfAgain (Apr 21, 2012)

Know what you mean...I get depressed reading this stuff too sometimes. I think we should start a thread over in Life After Divorce (just to stay in touch)...even though some of us aren't there yet, technically, we may be outgrowing this forum.


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## jpr (Dec 14, 2011)

awwwww...I'll miss you, Traggy. 


...but I understand. I am starting to feel the same way. There are still definitely some ups and downs...and some thoughts that pop in my brain do sometimes cause me to pause and think and reflect; but, generally speaking, I think that I am able to handle these things on my own.



It IS a good thing.

I am glad to hear you are doing so well.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

It isn't like we cant become FB friends honestly, but this site does drag you down when you start to move on. I seriously read maybe two threads anymore. I can not even imagine reading someone else's, new story.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

MyselfAgain said:


> Know what you mean...I get depressed reading this stuff too sometimes. I think we should start a thread over in Life After Divorce (just to stay in touch)...even though some of us aren't there yet, technically, we may be outgrowing this forum.


I'm getting ready to start a third parter to my threads in LID.


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## proudwidaddy (Dec 26, 2011)

Bandit....single life is going good. I'm really starting to enjoy it. There have been a lot of things that I wanted to do when I was with my ex that I never did. I'm trying to cross off my bucket list now. 

How are you?


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

jpr said:


> awwwww...I'll miss you, Traggy.
> 
> 
> ...but I understand. I am starting to feel the same way. There are still definitely some ups and downs...and some thoughts that pop in my brain do sometimes cause me to pause and think and reflect; but, generally speaking, I think that I am able to handle these things on my own.
> ...


You got my numba!


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## jpr (Dec 14, 2011)

Traggy said:


> You got my numba!


Yep....
....you know, I'm coming town next week....

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

proudwidaddy said:


> Bandit....single life is going good. I'm really starting to enjoy it. There have been a lot of things that I wanted to do when I was with my ex that I never did. I'm trying to cross off my bucket list now.
> 
> How are you?


Broke up with gal I was dating. Ex wife is off the grid... I have no clue what she is doing. I am currently getting ready to demolish my kitchen, downstairs bathroom and guest bedroom for renovation. Got 30k in the bank and I'm itching to erase all memories of my wife in the house...by creating a new house. 

Are you dating Proud?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

jpr said:


> Yep....
> ....you know, I'm coming town next week....
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I want a full report.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## proudwidaddy (Dec 26, 2011)

Bandit well I have a date with a high school classmate of mine in two weeks. She's divorced with children like me. We are going to a MMA fight in *******, her cousin is the main event.


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## cantmove (Feb 20, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Broke up with gal I was dating. Ex wife is off the grid... I have no clue what she is doing. I am currently getting ready to demolish my kitchen, downstairs bathroom and guest bedroom for renovation. Got 30k in the bank and I'm itching to erase all memories of my wife in the house...by creating a new house.
> 
> Are you dating Proud?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have been rearranging rooms. I moved back downstairs to the old master bedroom. ( I have a house in the historic district so the attic was so big my stbx added another floor. Our room, bath, office and workout room are up there) I don't need the space. There are 3 bedrooms downstairs so I shut the second floor off. Now my house feels more manageable with just son and I. I redecorated my room and bath and my sons room and tv room. I also rearranged furniture and artwork in some rooms just so it wouldn't have so much of him everywhere. It helps.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Traggy said:


> Not much to talk about really. Had a great weekend with my daughter. Did some more volunteering selling some lemon shake ups at the city bbq cook off.
> 
> Daughter and I swam, shopped, ate, went to the BBQ, and just generally hung out. I think she had a good weekend. Someday soon she will be able to tell me!
> 
> ...


I feel the same way. My activity here at TAM has slowed down. I never go to CWI anymore. Everytime I did it brought back so many bad memories. 

After I found the site and received all the help I've gotten from all you wonderful people I thought it was my duty to stick around to offer advice to others coming in with similar problems and I will stick around but won't be posting as much. 

But this is a good thing. It's a sign that we are all moving on and in better spirits.


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