# What to do now?



## thekv1 (May 19, 2014)

Hi,
I registered here because I'm not sure what to do and where to go with my life and marriage.
English is not my first language so I apologize for any spelling mistakes in advance.

I've been together with my wife for 9 years, married for 5 - through all this time I think we were each other’s best friend as well.
We have a 3 year old girl who we both adore.

We haven’t ever really argued for more than a few minutes but through the years our affection has kind of cooled. Especially so, after our daughter was born as she kind of "took" some of love we shared for each other. From the start our love was not as much passion as it was sweetness (I sometimes wondered if it’s supposed to be like that, but my past relationships were similar) and that sweetness just slowly dwindled as we got focused on our jobs, day to day problems and our daughter. My wife is quite focused on her career and that might be a small part of the problem but I’ve made many mistakes as well. I am aware that I took her for granted for a long time, I didn’t try that much even when I noticed that we have some problems and I must admit for a long time I’ve been complaining to her about small things daily, which I’m sure didn’t help our relationship.

A few months ago we had a talk (it was New year’s eve I think) on which I insisted and analyzed our relationship a bit. We agreed there are some problems – her devoting a bit too much of her attention to her job and sometimes not enough to our daughter and me, and me constantly complaining about many things she does as I was on edge because of that general situation. We both agreed to “work on it” and I can say it did help a bit, last 2 months were “better” but still not nearly filled with affection as the start of our relationship or our marriage.

For the past few days she has grown particularly distant, I could sense something is “more wrong” and I asked her to tell me what it is. She said it’s the usual “she’s tired”, it’s PMS and not to worry, I told her that I sense it’s more and that we will have problems if she didn’t open up.

Yesterday she left her mail account logged in on my computer. We have a pretty trusting and open relationship and I wouldn’t normally check her mail (it was normal before for her to ask me to log into her mail to check something and vice versa, I knew her password and she knew mine but I haven’t ever used it to check her mail without her knowing) but as her behavior was so strange I did check it. And then I saw the texts she forwarded from her mobile…. It wasn’t sexual but for me the first few sentences were worse, it was a conversation with a colleague she was obviously more than flirting with. He lives in a city where she has to occasionally go for work. It was sweet and full of love, reminded me a lot of our first skype conversations back in university. At first I couldn’t breathe, but I got my bearings rather quickly and I kind of handled it well, I think…

After we put our daughter to sleep I first asked her to promise me that no matter what we would put the interest of our baby girl first and that she will always need both of us. She agreed and then I told her I read the mail. She immediately started crying and we spent the next few hours talking. To cut the long story short (less long I guess), it’s been going on for a month, I’m not sure if she knows if she likes him / loves him or what. I’m aware that we are both to blame for the situation as I don’t believe this would of happened had we not grown colder through the years. I kept it pretty cool for the most part and ended up consoling my wife as she cried and cried. We went to bed separately but I couldn’t sleep, after about 5 hours of lying in bed thinking, I broke up and cried, I mean I sobbed like a little girl. My wife then came to me, we hugged and consoled each other and fell asleep like that. Strange, but as I said we’re each other’s best friend as well.

My main question now is not a simple one – what to do?

What is the “best” thing we can do for our daughter – this is by far the most important thing for me (and my wife)?

I guess - first things first – my wife needs to see what she wants, she kept saying she still loves me last night, and I do love her, but this new relationship she started must surely be much sweeter for her – at least for now. I told her to take as much time as she needs to figure out what she wants… 

So there are two paths – one, she decides that she’ll end the “affair” and we try to make our marriage work again. I think if this is the case we would need to try to work harder, not take each other for granted (sounds like empty words but don’t know how to describe it better) and maybe we can see this as a shock therapy. I’m not sure however that even if this happens, will I be able to do it, would it eat me out for years, how do you put something like that behind you?

The other path is, well we eventually separate, divorce, one of us moves out – the works. In this situation, as we’re both good parents, love our daughter and we don’t hate each other, I believe we would make something work like us living in separate apartments but in the same neighborhood so we can both be as much as possible with our daughter. I can picture this working, but when I think of my little baby girl going to sleep even one night without me there to read her a story and kiss her, I tear up (I’m actually telling people my allergies are up as I’m writing this at work). Just how do you explain stuff like this to a three year old? My parents live relatively far and I can also not picture me taking my daughter without her mother for the summer vacations to her grandparents’ house.

Even though my wife did the cheating, I feel like I betrayed my daughter by allowing my marriage to come to this state.

Anyway, any advice is appreciated. 
I needed to put this in writing, sorry for the wall of text.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The best thing for your daughter is for your wife to stop acting like a teenager and accept her responsibilities.


----------



## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

First thing you need to do is stop blaming yourself! Even the best marriages suffer from affairs, your marriage is most likely no different than the millions of others out there. Hell it sounds like mine.

If she wasn't happy she had other options however cheating is NOT a valid one. Stop sympathizing with her, she isn't the victim, you are. Its not your fault she did this and you did not deserve it.

The general rule in these situations is to talk divorce right out of the gate so that the WS gets a reality check. You need to let them know that you have self-respect and will walk if pushed. If you forgive and try to R as your first response you could end up enabling the affair. Without the threat of losing their marriage they will have very little incentive to stop the A.

Do not tolerate her have any contact with the OM and make it a deal breaker. If she tries to give you lip show her the door and to talk to your lawyer. Being the nice guy gets you walked on.

Also "I don't know" is not a valid answer to any question. If she has ANY doubts about staying married tell her to find other living arrangements.

Tough love bro! I know the thought of sounding like a jerk probably turns you off but it gets results.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

You are 50% to blame for problems in the marriage.
She is 100% to blame for having an affair.
She either ends it or you divorce, limbo sux.


----------



## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

thekv1 said:


> A few months ago we had a talk (it was New year’s eve I think) on which *I insisted and analyzed our relationship a bit. *We agreed there are some problems – her devoting a bit too much of her attention to her job and sometimes not enough to our daughter and me, and me constantly complaining about many things she does as I was on edge because of that general situation. *We both agreed to “work on it” and I can say it did help a bit, last 2 months were “better” but still not nearly filled with affection as the start of our relationship or our marriage.*





thekv1 said:


> For the past few days she has grown particularly distant, I could sense something is “more wrong” and I asked her to tell me what it is.
> ---------------
> To cut the long story short (less long I guess), *it’s been going on for a month*, I’m not sure if she knows if she likes him / loves him or what. *I’m aware that we are both to blame for the situation as I don’t believe this would of happened had we not grown colder through the years.*


You realised the marriage had issues you adressed it, insisted on it, accepted your share, she did the same... only aparently as she started cheating.

Betrayed spouses are not to blame for thier waywards decision to cheat. Ever.
In you particular case you adressed the marriage BEFORE she started cheating (At least as she claims). There's no way you carry any trace of responsability for this. She decided to cross the boundaires after she commited to change.

Another things is... she obbliusly started way before she claims, you noticed she grew distant now but waywrds can compartimentalize the thing for a while, the detachment is noticeable when they are already deeply hooked up. She likely started before the period of improvement stopped. Maybe earlier.
Waywards lie, it started earlier and is very probably also PA, even it's not sexual yet. Hence de obvious detachment, huge red flag of cheating.

I'd start snooping as long in the past as i could. Play dumb and snoop.


Of course don't give her "as much time as she needs"... she can think about giving the marriage a last shot of going towards divorce but OM is gone YESTERDAY.
It's not negotiable. NC (No contact), complete transparence... and demands from her to come clean, she's lying.


----------



## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

You are way too passive in dealing with your wife. Right now you seem to be giving her space to decide on you or the OM. 

What if your wife leaves, takes your child and starts a new life with the OM? 

I never understand when BS talk about putting the child/children first. It is like you are grabbing at straws. "Hey my wife is having sex with OM but I will get her to promise me that we will both be there for the child". "Yea that will be the answer". 

Do you want your wife? Seriously, do you want her? Start the 180. Find out all you can about divorce, child support, child custody, etc.

Stop letting your wife decide on her terms.


----------



## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Did she admit to having sex with him?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

I have a felling that your going to lose if you don't put a stop to this now. 

For you to give her all the time that she needs will only make it worse. Your the betrayed spouse, not her, you make the rules and if she has any interest in staying in the marriage then she'll follow them. 

When you let them have all the time they need, it's called a fence straddler. Doing that will crush you in the end.

Let her know that you had a change of heart and she either ends in the way you want it ended which means that you can check her messages when you want and she cannot erase any of them and if she can't make her mind then you make it up for her and file.

Your not going to lose your kid and if anyone is to blame for the end of the marriage it's on her. She had the affair so she's responsible for it. Don't play games.


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

thekv1 said:


> What is the “best” thing we can do for our daughter – this is by far the most important thing for me (and my wife)?


 What is best for your daughter is for you to not use her as an excuse to be weak and understanding as your wife is having an affair. When my dad cheated on my Mom, I resented being used as the excuse for keeping an ending marriage together longer than it should. They were doing me no favors staying together, as I wanted the faithful parents that were a real couple, not what they had become once my dad was in an affair. Do what is right for you, because it is not right to have your daughter watch her father stand by and allow his wife to continue with her affair as he dies inside. Children are a lot smarter than you think. She may not know what is wrong but she will know that something bad is going on.



thekv1 said:


> I guess - first things first – my wife needs to see what she wants, she kept saying she still loves me last night, and I do love her, but this new relationship she started must surely be much sweeter for her – at least for now. I told her to take as much time as she needs to figure out what she wants…


 You just told her that she can continue the affair as she gets to decide your fate, and you are using your daughter as the excuse. This is so wrong. Tell her that she either immediately ends the affair with complete no contact with the other man (OM) and full transpancy without complaint (that includes all passwords), or you will file for an immediate divorce. Tell her that married people do not get to date other men, and that if she wants to see this OM to decide if he is who she wants, she needs to do that as a single person.

Do not cry or beg. Be strong. If she wants back into the marriage, she needs to be remorseful and be willing to do the work to earn your trust back.


----------



## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Friend,

We see a lot of betrayed spouses like you, who's approach to their spouse's cheating is simply WRONG. If you will follow the advice we give you, you'll give your marriage the best chance to survive and hopefully regain some lost respect along the way.

First, you have placed your wife on a pedestal. No matter what your marital issues, she doesn't deserve to be there. She's a cheater. Cheater's have to receive consequences and you have to be willing to end your marriage if she doesn't accept them.

You need to expose her cheating to your family and her family, and the OM's wife or significant other if he has one. Don't tell her you're doing it, just do it; immediately.

You tell her she must end contact with him now. She sends him a no contact letter that you read and approve. She allows you to verify that no contact by giving you access to all of her communication devices, and she will account for her time away from you.

Either she ends contact or you divorce her. She doesn't get to decide how this plays out. You will decide that.

Stop crying in front of her. Don't beg, plead, or try to nice her back. That makes you look all the more unattractive to her. A woman respects a strong, decisive husband; and you've been anything but that until now. Implement the 180 to detach from her for now.

Responding to a spouse's cheating the right way is a process. The first part of that process is her ending contact and becoming completely transparent. If she doesn't, that's the end of the process - other than divorcing her. If she does, the next step is your satisfaction that she's accepting the consequences, including exposure, and demonstrating true remorse.

Sorry you're here. Keep posting.


----------



## jack.c (Sep 7, 2013)

I think you should start to detach yuorself from your WW, nothing nasty but a full 180! She has been chaeating on you and thats that!
OF course she feels sorry... but it's a pity sorry for you, and not a real remorse witch should be the first thingshe would've done if she was intentioned to work on your marriege.
So it's good that you have a common interest for your Daughter, but you need to acknoledge and be rational about this situation.
Let her go and work on yourself, dont engage with her and DONT MOVE OUT THE HOUSE! 
Start seperating financial settings and start seeking legal advise.
Tell her that as long as she is having an affaire you dont have nothing to say to her unless it regards your daughter. Its time that she see's what life will be from now on


----------



## ecotime47 (Apr 3, 2013)

I'm so sorry you're going through this. Hang in there. 

Is the affair emotional only or have they had sex? 

Your primary question is regarding what's best for your daughter. I seriously doubt that divorce would be the best thing for her. Your daughter needs both you and her mom as constants in her world. She needs the unique care that only her mom can provide and she needs the security and validation that you provide her. Those are daily needs that you both meet for her. That being said, you staying married to a wife that is cheating on you "for the good of the child" is certainly not the best thing either.

So much of this is up to her. The ball is in her court. If she values her family, she'll end this affair. If she decides to end the affair, you guys will need to commit to counseling and a process of rebuilding trust and communication. If she doesn't end the affair, you may be forced to move on - and yes, it will be a very painful thing for your daughter. 

I'm praying for you - wisdom and courage. None of this is easy but it will get better.


----------



## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

ecotime47 said:


> If she doesn't end the affair, you may be forced to move on - and yes, *it will be a very painful thing for your daughter.*


Perhaps, but then again, the cumulative effect of being raised in a household where her mother openly cheats; of distrust and bickering, will likely have a worse long term effect on her. 

If she continues and you divorce, you'll be able to demonstrate how a man with respect for himself behaves, and how cheaters receive consequences. You don't want your daughter to follow in her mother's footsteps one day; and that happens more than you would believe.

Just know, that it would be your wife that ended the marriage, not you.


----------



## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

thekv1 said:


> I've been together with my wife for 9 years, married for 5 - through all this time I think we were each other’s best friend as well.
> We have a 3 year old girl who we both adore.


My wife sometimes calls me her "best friend," but that's not really true, she has a best friend an that friend is a woman. If it gets to be the case for real, the marriage is probably on the skids. "Best Friends" is not the right dynamic for a successful marriage.

"


thekv1 said:


> We haven’t ever really argued for more than a few minutes but through the years our affection has kind of cooled. Especially so, after our daughter was born as she kind of "took" some of love we shared for each other. From the start our love was not as much passion as it was sweetness (I sometimes wondered if it’s supposed to be like that, but my past relationships were similar) and that sweetness just slowly dwindled as we got focused on our jobs, day to day problems and our daughter..


"Sweetness" won't hold a woman's attention over the long haul. Just from the information that you have provided it here, it seems highly likely that you fall into what Vox Day describes as the "Delta" male rank on his socio-sexual hierarchy. Does the following sound familiar?

*Delta:* _The normal guy. Deltas are the great majority of men. They can't attract the most attractive women, so they usually aim for the second-tier women with very limited success, and stubbornly resist paying attention to all of the third-tier women who are comfortably in their league. This is ironic, because deltas would almost always be happier with their closest female equivalents. When a delta does manage to land a second-tier woman, he is constantly afraid that she will lose interest in him and will, not infrequently, drive her into the very loss of interest he fears by his non-stop dancing of attendance upon her. In a social setting, the deltas are the men clustered together in groups, each of them making an occasional foray towards various small gaggles of women before beating a hasty retreat when direct eye contact and engaged responses are not forthcoming. Deltas tend to put the female sex on pedestals and have overly optimistic expectations of them; if a man rhapsodizes about his better half or is an inveterate White Knight, he is almost certainly a delta. Deltas like women, but find them mysterious, confusing, and are sometimes secretly a little afraid of them."_



thekv1 said:


> My wife is quite focused on her career and that might be a small part of the problem but I’ve made many mistakes as well.


I take it your wife is the high earner. How big is the disparity?



thekv1 said:


> I am aware that I took her for granted for a long time, I didn’t try that much even when I noticed that we have some problems and I must admit for a long time I’ve been complaining to her about small things daily, which I’m sure didn’t help our relationship.


Men who complain about things to their wives are a big sexual turnoff. You are supposed to make the problem go away, not whine about it. If the complaints are about her, that's an even bigger problem. 



thekv1 said:


> A few months ago we had a talk (it was New year’s eve I think) on which I insisted and analyzed our relationship a bit.


Ugh. While women _say_ they want to have long talks about the relationship, they really don't, and a man who does so lowers his esteem in his wife's eyes. They want you to magical know the problem and magically fix it; after all, you're their "soulmate," so you should anticipate and preempt relationship problems. If you fail to do so, that means you aren't really her "soulmate." Got it? You are an imposter to her subconscious mind, which is the part of the mind (limbic autonomic reproductive system) that's running the show.



thekv1 said:


> We agreed there are some problems – her devoting a bit too much of her attention to her job and sometimes not enough to our daughter and me, and me constantly complaining about many things she does as I was on edge because of that general situation. We both agreed to “work on it” and I can say it did help a bit, last 2 months were “better” but still not nearly filled with affection as the start of our relationship or our marriage.


These conversations where the male is coming from a position of weakness are interpreted by the woman as nothing more than wheedling for sex; another big sexual turn off. They tend to increase female dissatisfaction to new heights. Are you employed?



thekv1 said:


> For the past few days she has grown particularly distant, I could sense something is “more wrong” and I asked her to tell me what it is. She said it’s the usual “she’s tired”, it’s PMS and not to worry, I told her that I sense it’s more and that we will have problems if she didn’t open up.


The distancing has probably been going on for a while, just not enough for you to notice. It's part of the standard delinking process when a woman is getting ready to dump her man.



thekv1 said:


> Yesterday she left her mail account logged in on my computer. We have a pretty trusting and open relationship and I wouldn’t normally check her mail (it was normal before for her to ask me to log into her mail to check something and vice versa, I knew her password and she knew mine but I haven’t ever used it to check her mail without her knowing) but as her behavior was so strange I did check it. And then I saw the texts she forwarded from her mobile…. It wasn’t sexual but for me the first few sentences were worse, it was a conversation with a colleague she was obviously more than flirting with. He lives in a city where she has to occasionally go for work. It was sweet and full of love, reminded me a lot of our first skype conversations back in university. At first I couldn’t breathe, but I got my bearings rather quickly and I kind of handled it well, I think…


How far back did the texts go?



thekv1 said:


> After we put our daughter to sleep I first asked her to promise me that no matter what we would put the interest of our baby girl first and that she will always need both of us. She agreed and then I told her I read the mail. She immediately started crying and we spent the next few hours talking. To cut the long story short (less long I guess), it’s been going on for a month,


Got any actual evidence for that time, like text history, or is this just your wife talking?




thekv1 said:


> I’m not sure if she knows if she likes him / loves him or what.


The first time they had sex, her brain was flooded with a host of chemicals creating a bond between them and an addiction to sex with her paramour. Dopamine is a biggy, but not the only one; she also gets adrenaline, oxytocin, serotonin, etc etc. This makes normal sex with you seem like a trip to the dentist.



thekv1 said:


> I’m aware that we are both to blame for the situation as I don’t believe this would of happened had we not grown colder through the years.


No, I would say she devalued your manhood and you became someone like a brother; cared for, but not a sexual partner. Women want a sexual partner they can get turned on by: basically the so-called Alpha and/or Sigma males.



thekv1 said:


> I kept it pretty cool for the most part and ended up consoling my wife as she cried and cried.


Her esteem for you just dropped even further. She wants you to fight for her. She believes that since you won't fight for her, you don't care. You're not her "soulmate."



thekv1 said:


> We went to bed separately but I couldn’t sleep, after about 5 hours of lying in bed thinking, I broke up and cried, I mean I sobbed like a little girl. My wife then came to me, we hugged and consoled each other and fell asleep like that. Strange, but as I said we’re each other’s best friend as well.


Her esteem for you just dropped even further. Now she knows you do care, but you're not man enough to fight for her and stand up to her. She wants you to stand up to her and put her in her place, then destroy the OM. She's wants a fitness test called "you and him fight." It's primal and she will deny it, but it's true. It's the ancient way of all humans.




thekv1 said:


> My main question now is not a simple one – what to do?


The absolute best thing would be to slay the OM, man to man in front of your wife, and add his wives to your harem. This will not only eliminate him as a rival, but it will raise your sex rank among the tribe, thus appeasing your wife's drive for hypergamy. Unfortunately, this oldest and best infidelity cure is no longer available in most modern societies. However, you can still use the knowledge that this is what your wife truly desires, way down in her stone age reptilian brain, to your advantage.

Are you Scandinavian by any chance?

How old are the two of you?



thekv1 said:


> What is the “best” thing we can do for our daughter – this is by far the most important thing for me (and my wife)?


The best thing for the child, but not for you, is to genuinely reconcile with your wife. However, I don't think you have the tools to pull that off.



thekv1 said:


> I guess - first things first – my wife needs to see what she wants,


No. Your wife needs for you to lay down the law.



thekv1 said:


> she kept saying she still loves me last night, and I do love her,


She loves you like a brother or an ex-husband that she abused.



thekv1 said:


> but this new relationship she started must surely be much sweeter for her – at least for now. I told her to take as much time as she needs to figure out what she wants…


Like I said, every time they fook or merely text, she gets a high like crack cocaine. You are yesterday's news. Until you get in the driver's seat. Are you a stay at home dad?



thekv1 said:


> So there are two paths – one, she decides that she’ll end the “affair” and we try to make our marriage work again. I think if this is the case we would need to try to work harder, not take each other for granted (sounds like empty words but don’t know how to describe it better) and maybe we can see this as a shock therapy. I’m not sure however that even if this happens, will I be able to do it, would it eat me out for years, how do you put something like that behind you?


Whether you divorce or reconcile, it will eat at you for years. Things can never be the same. The only reason to reconcile is for the kids, but your WW has to be the one to crawl and beg for it.



thekv1 said:


> Even though my wife did the cheating, I feel like I betrayed my daughter by allowing my marriage to come to this state.


No, "this state," as you put it, is the state of adultery. Your wife fully owns the adultery. While you did fail to maintain yourself as a sexually attractive male in your wife's eyes, this was a mistake of ignorance and active brainwashing at the hands of the matriarchy. There is a slight chance that this can be fixed, but the odds are long and it involves you becoming a much more assertive, sexual desirable male. Much of what must be done is counterintuitive to your upbringing. However, if you apply these changes, the increased raw sexual attraction you project may bring your wife back into the marriage. And if not, you will have a whole new crowd of willing women clamoring to join your new harem.

If you're ready to try, answer the questions I asked above and I'll explain what you need to change.


----------



## waylan (Apr 23, 2014)

First, tough break - betrayal isn't easy. You need to take control of the situation ASAP. You give her an ultimatum: She breaks off all content with the OM and agrees to be monitored going forward or you are filing for divorce. Take the ball out of her court.


----------



## sandals (May 8, 2014)

You've been given good advice here. Stand up for yourself. Do not wait for her to make a decision. This is not your fault. It may feel counter intuitive now because you love her but it is what will work. If you don't do it, you'll be stuck in limbo and spin, and that will destroy you. 

Sandals
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## thekv1 (May 19, 2014)

Hi again, thank you all for your advice.
Firstly I think that maybe from the tone of my original post many of you got the impression that I am a kind of a pushover which I assure you is not the case. I have been overly emotional at the time of writing. 

Secondly, when I say stuff like "my wife is also my best friend", it doesn’t mean we don’t have "proper" best friends or that I have an asexual relationship with my wife, it means we have a relationship where we discuss everything and support each other through all problems, maybe I shouldn’t call it being best friends but being normal spouses.

Of course I’m rethinking a lot of stuff now that I know she cheated but that doesn’t mean everything we had was a lie. 

Most of your advice could be summed up to "Stand up for yourself" and I agree with that.

I have thought a lot about what happened and I made a decision that I want to give my wife another chance at our marriage for 2 reasons:

1)	I still love her and think that we can make our marriage work, not like before because I wasn’t entirely happy with how things were working. 

2)	I think the best environment for my child is to live in a home with her mother and father who love each other. Of course I’m not going to live with a wife that cheats just because of my kid, but if we fix our relationship than I am sure that is the best thing for everyone.


I told my wife yesterday that I’m taking our daughter to the park to play for 2 hours. I told her that when we come back she can inform me if she’s finished with the other “relationship” and determined to work on our marriage or I file for divorce ASAP. I also told her not to end it because of our daughter because that would mean nothing, I want her to either end it because she wants to be with me or to go on with it and we go our separate ways.

When we came back she said she ended it and wants to try to work on our marriage.

That was the first necessary step, but that doesn’t mean that we’ll stay together, we have the basis to start working on it and we’ll see where it takes us.

I told her complete honesty is necessary if I’m ever to forgive her and that at first sign of dishonesty we’re done. We always knew each other’s passwords, I just never used it to check her stuff, well, I’m not that trusting anymore and she’ll have to live with it. 

We’ll see what happens but I’m kind of content now. All this did open my eyes a bit and I’m determined to be happy in my marriage, if I’m not I’ll end it, simple as that.

I’ll try to answer some of your specific questions in another post.

Thanks again.


----------



## Turin74 (Apr 11, 2014)

There are a lot of bits I your posts that imho are concerning, but there are others here who will certainly raise them.I
I'm going to ask you for one thing: so it does seem your wife escaped this with no consequences, didn't she?

So did the OM....do you love him as well? 

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## jack.c (Sep 7, 2013)

i guess Turin is right.... here are other questions:
Did she show you any remorse?
Did she call the OM and really ended the A.?
Did you expose the OM?

You see....the only thing you did is probably make them go underground.... you showed yourself pissed off but you really did'nt do nothing else. I hope to be wrong, but i think that more will come and also for you not in a good way.
In order to R. with your wife, you need to take a stronger action, and blessing her A. rugsweeping is not the right way.... sorry


----------



## thekv1 (May 19, 2014)

Machiavelli said:


> My wife sometimes calls me her "best friend," but that's not really true, she has a best friend an that friend is a woman. If it gets to be the case for real, the marriage is probably on the skids. "Best Friends" is not the right dynamic for a successful marriage.


I did not mean we are just best friends, I answered what I meant in my post above. I agree that "Best Friends" is not the right dynamic for marriage.



Machiavelli said:


> "Sweetness" won't hold a woman's attention over the long haul. Just from the information that you have provided it here, it seems highly likely that you fall into what Vox Day describes as the "Delta" male rank on his socio-sexual hierarchy. Does the following sound familiar?


Well, I agree with the sweetness not being enough and it never was just that. I think I do need to change some things in my behavior back to how I was when we "just met". I wouldn’t agree with me falling into the category you quoted, I never ever had insecurities that my wife (or any of my past girlfriends) would lose interest.



Machiavelli said:


> I take it your wife is the high earner. How big is the disparity?


I must of left a pretty poor impression of myself in my emotional post 
I'm not insecure, I am good looking, I earn much more then my wife (I always have and probably always will, I hope to God she starts earning more than me - we would be much better off then). My career is however in "stable waters" for a few years while hers is in full motion (she is very competent, and basically gets a promotion every year). I'm in IT while she's in nutrition.



Machiavelli said:


> Men who complain about things to their wives are a big sexual turnoff. You are supposed to make the problem go away, not whine about it. If the complaints are about her, that's an even bigger problem.


Couldn’t agree with you more and this is where I know I was wrong. I shouldn’t have complained / criticized her so much and that's what I intend to work on if we manage to get our marriage back on track.



Machiavelli said:


> Ugh. While women say they want to have long talks about the relationship, they really don't, and a man who does so lowers his esteem in his wife's eyes. They want you to magical know the problem and magically fix it; after all, you're their "soulmate," so you should anticipate and preempt relationship problems. If you fail to do so, that means you aren't really her "soulmate." Got it? You are an imposter to her subconscious mind, which is the part of the mind (limbic autonomic reproductive system) that's running the show.


I'm not sure you're right here. I can solve problems like money problems, getting the best kindergarten for our daughter, helping my wife in whatever problem she faces at work or with her family/friends. I cannot alone solve problems in our relationship. If I want her to do things differently about our daughter I have to discuss that, what other way is there?



Machiavelli said:


> These conversations where the male is coming from a position of weakness are interpreted by the woman as nothing more than wheedling for sex; another big sexual turn off. They tend to increase female dissatisfaction to new heights. Are you employed?


As I said, I am the main moneymaker in our family. It's not a position of weakness, I'm trying to teach my wife that she can stand up to her boss sometimes, that she doesn’t have to think about work and complain about work problems so often, and that there are more important things than that - like family. I want her to be more relaxed when she's home as the work problems she's fretting about are not that big and everything always ends up ok.



Machiavelli said:


> The distancing has probably been going on for a while, just not enough for you to notice. It's part of the standard delinking process when a woman is getting ready to dump her man.


Yeah, it's pretty clear now why she was distancing herself, we'll see who gets dumped in the end.



Machiavelli said:


> Got any actual evidence for that time, like text history, or is this just your wife talking?


To answer a couple of questions, I have the chat history. It goes back around a month. They did have sex (not from the history, she told me).



Machiavelli said:


> The first time they had sex, her brain was flooded with a host of chemicals creating a bond between them and an addiction to sex with her paramour. Dopamine is a biggy, but not the only one; she also gets adrenaline, oxytocin, serotonin, etc etc. This makes normal sex with you seem like a trip to the dentist.


Yeah, I'm pretty sure sex for the first time with someone after 9 years of a stable relationship is like fireworks. 
I'm pretty sure that the fact they were both cheating (he's married without kids btw) also added the "forbidden fruit" sweetness to it.
I'm not normally insecure but I'm not happy with having to compete with that when/if we get back on track.



Machiavelli said:


> Her esteem for you just dropped even further. Now she knows you do care, but you're not man enough to fight for her and stand up to her. She wants you to stand up to her and put her in her place, then destroy the OM. She's wants a fitness test called "you and him fight." It's primal and she will deny it, but it's true. It's the ancient way of all humans.


Yeah, I wasn't the manliest of man in all this, I can’t fix that. I am very emotional when it comes to my daughter and I made a mistake of picturing the difficult situations she would be in (the fact that my wife ****ed up doesn’t make it easier for me at all). I have however since taken a much firmer stand, we'll see what happens.



Machiavelli said:


> The absolute best thing would be to slay the OM, man to man in front of your wife, and add his wives to your harem. This will not only eliminate him as a rival, but it will raise your sex rank among the tribe, thus appeasing your wife's drive for hypergamy. Unfortunately, this oldest and best infidelity cure is no longer available in most modern societies. However, you can still use the knowledge that this is what your wife truly desires, way down in her stone age reptilian brain, to your advantage.
> 
> Are you Scandinavian by any chance?
> 
> How old are the two of you?


Ah, why didn’t you say so at the beginning - not only have I solved my problems, I now have 3 loving wives.

Nope, I'm Slavic, so the slaying part is not so far gone in my culture, but no.
I'm 32, she's 31.



Machiavelli said:


> The best thing for the child, but not for you, is to genuinely reconcile with your wife. However, I don't think you have the tools to pull that off.


We will see, I did choose the path you think won't work.
I'm not afraid, I will try what’s best for me and us but I'm not naive, if it doesn't work I'll end it. I won't be living like a slime just for the sake of my daughter, don’t worry.



Machiavelli said:


> No, "this state," as you put it, is the state of adultery. Your wife fully owns the adultery. While you did fail to maintain yourself as a sexually attractive male in your wife's eyes, this was a mistake of ignorance and active brainwashing at the hands of the matriarchy. There is a slight chance that this can be fixed, but the odds are long and it involves you becoming a much more assertive, sexual desirable male. Much of what must be done is counterintuitive to your upbringing. However, if you apply these changes, the increased raw sexual attraction you project may bring your wife back into the marriage. And if not, you will have a whole new crowd of willing women clamoring to join your new harem.
> 
> If you're ready to try, answer the questions I asked above and I'll explain what you need to change.


Well I tried to answer most of your questions. I appreciate the humor in your advice and I know there's a lot of truth behind it. Since I met my wife she used to say that she loves how I am such a good and gentle man but BAD when I need to be. I think I let my bad side weaken, I'll work on it 

Thanks for the lengthy analysis and advice,
Cheers!


----------



## thekv1 (May 19, 2014)

jack.c said:


> i guess Turin is right.... here are other questions:
> Did she show you any remorse?
> Did she call the OM and really ended the A.?
> Did you expose the OM?
> ...


Hmm, you both raise really valid questions.
She is showing remorse.
She did call him and end it.
I did not expose him.

Now, If I expose them I've ****ed her career, do you really think it's worth that?
I did tell my wife she needs to tell her family about the affair so that there's not complete rug sweeping.


----------



## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

thekv1,

The PRIMARY person you need to expose this POS to is his BW.

That will ensure the A stays dead by giving this scumbag something else to worry about rather than trying to seduce your WW back into cheating.

Also, his BW has the right to know the truth about her own M, and this is info you possess.

You know if she had discovered this and you were in the dark, you would want her to clue you in to what was going on.

Burn this POS, he deserves to feel the consequences of messing with your M and your daughter's family.


----------



## Turin74 (Apr 11, 2014)

thekv1 said:


> Now, If I expose them I've ****ed her career, do you really think it's worth that?.


Worth it? I'd make it mandatory of it was up to me. I'm my opinion it will help you with (in no specific order):
= looking at yourself in the mirror
= consequences for your wife (she is getting away with just being a good wife, that is what she promised to be when marryin , will she cheat again?)
= potentially some other couples if OM is a player

There are cases imho when your may not go after him (if he honestly didn't know your wife is married, if your are divorcing and by keeping this amicable can get away with less alimony, etc) - you decide if they apply

Btw, I was not talking specifically about workplace exposure, there are other perfectly legal ways to regret the day he looked at your wife...
_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## jack.c (Sep 7, 2013)

thekv1 said:


> Now, If I expose them I've ****ed her career, do you really think it's worth that?
> I did tell my wife she needs to tell her family about the affair so that there's not complete rug sweeping.


She knew whAT she was doing BEFORE having an A., and the risk's having it with her boss!
Anyway... you should expose OM also because he will probably do the same with other married women, use his power of being the BOSS to have it his way always..... he is a scumbag that needs to be removed from this power because he will certainly do it again


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

thekv1 said:


> Hmm, you both raise really valid questions.
> She is showing remorse.
> She did call him and end it.
> I did not expose him.
> ...


Once your spouse stops cheating, exposure is only necessary to ensure the OM's wife knows what he's doing or if he is continuing to harass your wife - then you expose HIM to HIS side to get him to back off.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

jack.c said:


> She knew whAT she was doing BEFORE having an A., and the risk's having it with her boss!
> Anyway... you should expose OM also because he will probably do the same with other married women, use his power of being the BOSS to have it his way always..... he is a scumbag that needs to be removed from this power because he will certainly do it again


I can see this, too.


----------



## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

You do realize that the both of you now need to be tested for STD's. These are the consequences of affairs.

If the roles were reversed wouldn't you want his wife to inform you?

What you have done by not exposing him is that you have sent a message to the OM that it was acceptable to screw your wife and that there will be no consequences for his actions. Is this really a message you want to send to him? There is now no reason for him not to continue to try to have sex with your wife now and in the 
future.


----------



## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

It is very interesting to me, after reading OP story, I re-read it, but changed she to he, as there is another story very similar to op's and the advise is so the opposite. 

Where as a male giving the cheating wife a second chance looks weak, a women giving a man a second chance, is viewed differently. Wondering why? Or am I the confused one?

-sammy


----------



## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

This is really amazing that betrayed spouses too often refuse to expose their wayward spouse's affair partner. At least inform this guy's poor wife. You have no idea if your wife is finished with him or not. What she says to you about ending it with him may or may not be true. In the world of infidelity, words mean nothing.

Make life miserable for this guy. Make him scramble to save his marriage. Also exposure sends the message loud and clear to both this guy and your wife that you're a guy who is not to be effed with. Your wife will actually be attracted to that by the way. And you need all the attraction points you can accumulate.

Also....a very important point: It's the right thing to do to inform his wife.


----------



## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

I checked up on the OM a year after I let his girlfriend know he was cheating on her.. He is now living with his 84 year old mom, and his GF is on her own in a new apartment. I wouldn't have been able to live with myself if I didn't make an effort to let her know. I started with "I'm sorry to have to tell you this, but you deserve to know..."


----------



## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

thekv1 said:


> Hmm, you both raise really valid questions.
> She is showing remorse.
> She did call him and end it.
> I did not expose him.
> ...


First, exposing the POSOM and her being exposed, should be an assumed consequence for any cheating wife. So it would be *HER* actions that ended her career, not yours. And that's assuming that it actually would. 

Regardless, I'll always be of the belief, that not exposing the POSOM is one of the biggest mistakes a BS can make - no matter what the consequences to the CS. You have to make this OM regret that he chose *YOUR* wife. That's a big part of "standing up for yourself". 

The exposure is something you take control of. You don't rely on your wife to do it. You have no idea what she will say otherwise.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

badmemory said:


> First, exposing the POSOM and her being exposed, should be an assumed consequence for any cheating wife. So it would be *HER* actions that ended her career, not yours. And that's assuming that it actually would.
> 
> Regardless, I'll always be of the belief, that not exposing the POSOM is one of the biggest mistakes a BS can make - no matter what the consequences to the CS. You have to make this OM regret that he chose *YOUR* wife. That's a big part of "standing up for yourself".
> 
> The exposure is something you take control of. You don't rely on your wife to do it. You have no idea what she will say otherwise.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

*^^^^KV1 ^^^^*


KV1, Glad to hear you're not a push over or a stay at home dad. Now you need to blow things up. At least you've got the right name for the job.




thekv1 said:


> I'm not sure you're right here. I can solve problems like money problems, getting the best kindergarten for our daughter, helping my wife in whatever problem she faces at work or with her family/friends. I cannot alone solve problems in our relationship. If I want her to do things differently about our daughter I have to discuss that, what other way is there?


Other than your daughter, you don't discuss, you act. You up your sex rank, which you say is high, and start acting a "little more single." You interact a little more with the pretty young waitress when you take your wife out to dinner. You go places where other women will try to catch your eye. Somewhere along the line, your wife decided her boss (if the OM wasn't her boss, correct me) had a higher male socio-sexual ranking than you did. It happens an awful lot with wives in the workplace; it's natural, because the boss is dominant with her, you not so much.




thekv1 said:


> As I said, I am the main moneymaker in our family. It's not a position of weakness, I'm trying to teach my wife that she can stand up to her boss sometimes, that she doesn’t have to think about work and complain about work problems so often, and that there are more important things than that - like family. I want her to be more relaxed when she's home as the work problems she's fretting about are not that big and everything always ends up ok.


You're right that family is more important than the job, and if it's the boss she's banging, she'll have to leave that job. The dopamine effect and the boss' position of dominance is unsurmountable, otherwise.



thekv1 said:


> Yeah, I wasn't the manliest of man in all this, I can’t fix that. I am very emotional when it comes to my daughter and I made a mistake of picturing the difficult situations she would be in (the fact that my wife ****ed up doesn’t make it easier for me at all). I have however since taken a much firmer stand, we'll see what happens.


Today is the first day of the rest of your life, to coin a phrase, so get cøcky, aloof, bold, and deal with her with a mailed fist in a velvet glove. Or in your case, the KV1 in the velvet glove. The boss gets the mailed fist via exposure. You can't be soft. Soft doesn't penetrate the haze/fog of the brain sex drugs. It's just like dealing with an addict.



thekv1 said:


> I'm 32, she's 31.


She's at the age of maximum sex drive. Her testosterone is the highest its ever been. 



thekv1 said:


> We will see, I did choose the path you think won't work.
> I'm not afraid, I will try what’s best for me and us but I'm not naive, if it doesn't work I'll end it. I won't be living like a slime just for the sake of my daughter, don’t worry.


I am one of those who thinks that once kids are on the scene, a parent has to bend over backwards to give them the best life possible.

The only way to save your marriage is for your wife to leave the job (if it's correct that OM is her boss) and for her and him to pay the price; which is exposure. You need to expose the boss to establish dominance, since you aren't willing to slay him in single combat in the arena, like I suggested.


----------



## Jambri (Mar 19, 2013)

I don't wish to be mean but the OP gives new meaning to the term "doormat"


----------



## ecotime47 (Apr 3, 2013)

Jambri said:


> I don't wish to be mean but the OP gives new meaning to the term "doormat"


What a ridiculous thing to say. 

KV - You're a husband and a dad who loves his family dearly. Some will give you advice that will walk you down the same paths as their miserable lives. 

You have a long, difficult road ahead of you no matter how this thing unfolds but let me assure you today of one important thing; *you are fighting for something that's worth fighting for.* You're certainly no doormat. Blessings to you!


----------



## thekv1 (May 19, 2014)

Machiavelli said:


> Other than your daughter, you don't discuss, you act. You up your sex rank, which you say is high, and start acting a "little more single." You interact a little more with the pretty young waitress when you take your wife out to dinner. You go places where other women will try to catch your eye. Somewhere along the line, your wife decided her boss (if the OM wasn't her boss, correct me) had a higher male socio-sexual ranking than you did. It happens an awful lot with wives in the workplace; it's natural, because the boss is dominant with her, you not so much.


I am in this phase now: when I'm not at work or playing with my daughter I'm working out, running etc. OM wasn't her boss, he just works at the same firm in a city that she occasionally has to go to do business. I'm trying to get a hold of his wife’s contact to inform her of the situation.




Machiavelli said:


> She's at the age of maximum sex drive. Her testosterone is the highest its ever been.


I don’t have proof that she had sex with him, she now claims she didn't. She says she told me they did have sex, when I asked, to push me away completely - like she wanted me to leave her or something. Don’t know if that's true - she doesn’t have any credibility now but It doesn't change much for me anyway. 




Machiavelli said:


> I am one of those who thinks that once kids are on the scene, a parent has to bend over backwards to give them the best life possible.


My baby girl is happy and I'm more and more sure her mom and me can keep her happy weather we're together or not.


----------



## thekv1 (May 19, 2014)

ecotime47 said:


> KV - You're a husband and a dad who loves his family dearly. Some will give you advice that will walk you down the same paths as their miserable lives.
> 
> You have a long, difficult road ahead of you no matter how this thing unfolds but let me assure you today of one important thing; *you are fighting for something that's worth fighting for.* You're certainly no doormat. Blessings to you!


Thank you ecotime for your kind words.
I notice many people here think I should be way more aggressive in my actions. I keep saying that my daughter is my number one concern and, that being so, no matter how hurt I feel I have to wisely choose how I act toward her mother.
I will not let myself be pushed or treated badly but I don't want to close the door completely to my wife.
Maybe we can fix our relationship (I actually believe in this less and less with every day) but we definitely have to have *a relationship* as our daughter’s parents who want the best for her.


----------



## Turin74 (Apr 11, 2014)

thekv1 said:


> I don’t have proof that she had sex with him, she now claims she didn't. She says she told me they did have sex, when I asked, to push me away completely - like she wanted me to leave her or something. Don’t know if that's true - she doesn’t have any credibility now but It doesn't change much for me anyway.
> .



I'm sorry but she most certainly did have sex. Everything you have posted so far was following the script to the T. So the claim that she didn't have sex bit told you it happened to push you away is again only consistent with the same script - now
when she realized what she's about to lose,not there is a chance to save her marriage, she's trying to rewrite the history.

It is up to you if it 'doesn't change much' for you, but please be cognizant that the only way to save the marriage is that she has to be 100% truthful and show genuine remorse... first step would be to stop feeding you... staff... like that

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

thekv1 said:


> I am in this phase now: when I'm not at work or playing with my daughter I'm working out, running etc. OM wasn't her boss, he just works at the same firm in a city that she occasionally has to go to do business. *I'm trying to get a hold of his wife’s contact to inform her of the situation.*


If you want to stay together, that is an absolute must. It kills several birds with one stone.



thekv1 said:


> I don’t have proof that she had sex with him, she now claims she didn't. She says she told me they did have sex, when I asked, to push me away completely - like she wanted me to leave her or something. Don’t know if that's true - she doesn’t have any credibility now but It doesn't change much for me anyway.


She did it, but that's an interesting twist. Why does she say she wants to push you away? Did she actually say she wanted you to leave?



thekv1 said:


> My baby girl is happy and I'm more and more sure her mom and me can keep her happy weather we're together or not.


Well, kids as a rule want the parents together and at least in the USA kids from an intact biological family do better on just about all indicators. Sure, there are exceptions, but...

If you decide you want to attempt to attract your wife back into the marriage, the main thing to do is get in the shape of your life and start acting like there are plenty of women just waiting to get with you. Take her out to venues where other women can give you the eye. Up your testosterone levels, up your appearance with sharper clothes, change your hair and facial hair, be cooler toward your wife.

Start using the Sixteen Commandments. You'll need to modify them a bit for your circumstance, but the attitude is what it's all about.


----------



## Jambri (Mar 19, 2013)

ecotime47 said:


> What a ridiculous thing to say.
> 
> KV - You're a husband and a dad who loves his family dearly. Some will give you advice that will walk you down the same paths as their miserable lives.
> 
> You have a long, difficult road ahead of you no matter how this thing unfolds but let me assure you today of one important thing; *you are fighting for something that's worth fighting for.* You're certainly no doormat. Blessings to you!


Miserable lives? Who are you to judge the quality of lives of others who post here because you don't agree with what they post?

Mature much?

To the OP you can still have your daughters' best interests at heart yet hold firm to your values. R is your choice but you should refrain from blaming yourself, which you've done countless times throughout this thread. There is NEVER an excuse to cheat.

I wish you luck in whatever choice you make.


----------

