# Is this the beginning?



## AlexDeLarge (Jan 28, 2012)

So I will preface this by saying I am not the paranoid type, but I noticed all the signs of serious MLC with my wife these days. She recently turned 40 and is dressing 15 years younger than she used to, reactivated her gym membership, increased libido etc... Hell I've done a bit of that too in my own way. But a seemingly harmless FB exchange I saw today has me freaked out now. Why the f**k is she all of a sudden reconnecting with bf's from high school on FB??? This is the exchange I saw today...

HIM
Belated happy b-day! I will always think of you as <maiden name>. Sarah found me on Facebook last year and now I'm reconnecting with long lost friends from hometown. Has there ever been a jr high reunion? If not we should do one. Do you live near xxx? I'm in yyy.

WIFE
I found you because (without sounding wierd) I think about you all the time! My son has a best friend who looks just like you when you were a kid, and my husband has a best friend that looks like you a lot as a man, lol. I don't see anyone from HS other than facebook but kept in touch w.... You look GREAT - quite the same , hope you are well , would love a reunion. SET IT UP! I'll come! :0) We live in xxx... not too far. Take care.

HIM
LOL! I totally understand. Some people from the past I think about much more than others for whatever reason. I always wonder who does the same but about me... Now I know at least one! I used to wonder what ever happened to you, Sarah....
BTW When I saw your picture I was like - damn <maiden name> but all grown up and a real woman now. You look great!

Is this harmless flirting or is she probing? I want to confront her about it but it would make me seem paranoid and snooping. I just stumbled on it because I was using her computer briefly. She friended him and why would she tell him she thinks about him all the time? The mentioning of it and downplaying to me is the classic feeler that women use to passive-aggressively show interest and availability...


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## jfv (May 29, 2012)

It is absolutely probing! And Its not that subtle either. They practically set up a date in that email. DO NOT ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN! At least insist on going. Keep monitoring her communications discreetly, especially her phone. I'm sure they'll exchange numbers at some point. Do you have all of her passwords? If she changes any of these then you'll know whats up. Until then keep an eye on this and don't give in. That email is textbook for the beginning of something that will end your marriage. Right now you are ahead of the game my friend. Don't give up that position for any reason. Keep posting.


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

AlexDeLarge said:


> WIFE
> *would love a reunion. SET IT UP! I'll come! :0)*


Should we read between the lines?


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Unbeknownst to me at the time, my marriage was decimated over my STBXW reconnecting with men from her past~ one a friend and co-worker of her deceased first husband, and the other a senior high classmate of hers.

Her FB conversations with both started in pretty much the same fashion and quickly escalated to the "hot and heavy!" Too bad that I, all too trustingly, didn't have the least suspicion regarding any of her activities only to later have them uncovered some nine months after the onset of our separation!

If I were in your shoes, I'd fastly begin monitoring her cell phone/texting activity as well as her FB postings. Get a keylogger on her PC and get a VAR for her car. And immediately start checking all of her cell phone records, if at all possible!


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

AlexDeLarge said:


> Is this harmless flirting or is she probing? I want to confront her about it but it would make me seem paranoid and snooping. I just stumbled on it because I was using her computer briefly. She friended him and why would she tell him she thinks about him all the time? *The mentioning of it and downplaying to me is the classic feeler that women use to passive-aggressively show interest and availability*...


What do you mean by downplaying? Has she told you at all about this guy who she connected with on Facebook from her past, or mentioned the possibility of a reunion?


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

On it's own the convo is friendly banter on her side. On his side it's casting a net.

BUT combined with her other activities it's clearly a RED flag. Couple ways to go depending on your ability to remain calm, cool, collected.

1. Have a conversation with her. Complement her on her appearance and let her know you've noticed her efforts at maintaing a youthful appearance. Then you can ask about "xxx" . 

Tell her you happened to glance at the convo and would like her to explain herself. Don't accuse, yell, plead, or otherwise appear emotional. Just accept what she says. Nod, "ok thanks, I don't think it's healthy but your an adult. I was just curious". Let it go but keep your ear to the ground. Watch for prolonged texting. Sudden attachment to cell phone etc.

2. Don't say a word but key log the computer and keep an eye on escalation in both frequency and content. Don't feel bad about "spying" sometimes you have to protect your marriage or at least prevent a blindside hit.


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## AlexDeLarge (Jan 28, 2012)

So of course I read these messages like 100 times already. And I'm reading all sorts of subtle flirting here.

HIM: I will always think of you as <her maiden name>.
TRANSLATION: Remember when we dated in high school? Let's go back to that fantasy land...

HIM: Has there ever been a jr high reunion? If not we should do one. Do you live near xxx? I'm in yyy.
TRANSLATION: Even though I haven't seen you in 20 years, let's just randomly arrange a junior HS reunion???

HER: I found you because (without sounding wierd) I think about you all the time!
TRANSLATION: Thinking about someone from HS from time to time is normal. It's not normal to think about them ALL the time. Nor would I share that with someone. IT IS WEIRD unless you are fantasizing about them.

HER: You look GREAT - quite the same , hope you are well , would love a reunion. SET IT UP! I'll come! :0)

TRANSLATION: Reunion thing fine. But "I"'ll come? "I"??? I put myself in this same role if I reconnected with an old flame on FB, there is NO WAY I'd use the word "I". I'd go out of my way to say "WE" as the whole dialog just reeks of flirtation...

HIM: When I saw your picture I was like - damn <maiden name> but all grown up and a real woman now. You look great!
TRANSLATION: I'm going to intentionally use your maiden name over and over to make you feel young. I'm not going to even pretend that I'm not thinking about sleeping with you if made yourself available...


WTF Is wrong with people today. He's married with a family just like us. How do two people randomly just reconnect on FB and within seconds just willingly start an affair? I'm trying to be level headed and objective about this, but I cannot read it any other way. I mean the attitude is like "Oh everybody's doing it. It's the in thing now. It's fine."

I would NEVER EVER in a million years cheat. And what infuriates me is that I'm the one who is exposed to temptation all the time. I'm in an industry where I interface with lots of wealthy, young, attractive people. I have temptation at every corner but I shut it down. She's a stay at home mom and I'm killing myself at work and never seeing my kids so she can look for old HS flames on FB with all her free time???

I'm incensed...


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## Ever-Man (Jan 25, 2013)

AlexDeLarge said:


> So I will preface this by saying I am not the paranoid type, but I noticed all the signs of serious MLC with my wife these days. She recently turned 40 and is dressing 15 years younger than she used to, reactivated her gym membership, increased libido etc... Hell I'm done a little bit of that too in my own way. But a seemingly harmless FB exchange I saw today has me freaked out now. Why the f**k is she all of a sudden reconnecting with bf's from high school on FB??? This is the exchange I saw today...
> 
> HIM
> Belated happy b-day! I will always think of you as <maiden name>. Sarah found me on Facebook last year and now I'm reconnecting with long lost friends from hometown. Has there ever been a jr high reunion? If not we should do one. Do you live near xxx? I'm in yyy.
> ...


Calm down and do not confront at all!!! If you confront her you raise her guard and risk an important window of opportunity for investigation. It sounds like you need to do this, one way or another, so you can clear your mind of suspicians.

First, notice that she mentioned YOU in her FB thread, her HUSBAND. If a woman has found a man she is intersted in as an affair partner, she is not going to mention the word "husband". In my opinion this could be totally innocent, of course no one knows yet. 

Further, be happy your wife wants to look good, and cares about aging well, that is a positive for you, no?

You have nearly NO EVIDENCE to start the "freak-out" mode yet. 
Put a key-logger on the computer, see what you find.


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## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

AlexDeLarge said:


> TRANSLATION: I'm going to intentionally use your maiden name over and over to make you feel young.


The thought I had was... "he's obviously trying to un-marry her through
conversation, to better his chance of her thinking in un-married terms".


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## AlexDeLarge (Jan 28, 2012)

Will_Kane said:


> What do you mean by downplaying? Has she told you at all about this guy who she connected with on Facebook from her past, or mentioned the possibility of a reunion?


PROBING: I found you because I think about you all the time!

DOWNPLAYING: (without sounding wierd) My son has a best friend who looks just like you when you were a kid, and my husband has a best friend that looks like you a lot as a man, lol.

Excuse for why she thinks about him all the time. That's the way I read it...


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## jfv (May 29, 2012)

Alex, you should be incensed. There are just too many changes in her behavior not to read it any other way. Why did she freind him after so many years? Is it a coincidence she did this after she turned 40, after she started changing her appearance? I think not. I think you are reading this right. Even if her initial intention isn't to start an affair, she seems to be primed for one given all the other behavioral changes. It'll be too easy to fall into one, and sooo many of them start of with much less flirting than her email had. Don't reveal that you've been looking at her facebook. Just continue to monitor until she starts planning trips and hiding stuff. Then insinuate yourself into these 'reunions' and see how she reacts. It should tell you alot. 
Never reveal your sources.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

Ever-Man said:


> You have nearly NO EVIDENCE to start the "freak-out" mode yet.
> Put a key-logger on the computer, see what you find.


I disagree. He's got more than enough evidence to freak out. He needs to confront her and let her know that this is unacceptable behavior for a married woman. He needs to nip this in the bud.

My ex reconnected with an old boyfriend and now she's my ex. Time is of the essence. 

OP, from what you have written, I don't think she's cheated but she's well on her way. Don't wait for her to do something stupid before you act.

Your marriage is dependent on how you handle this.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> I disagree. He's got more than enough evidence to freak out. He needs to confront her and let her know that this is unacceptable behavior for a married woman. He needs to nip this in the bud.
> 
> My ex reconnected with an old boyfriend and now she's my ex. Time is of the essence.
> 
> ...


:iagree: completely. Iceburg ahead!


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

She didn't mention this contact to you, though, did she?

Also, this is the first time you are finding out that she is thinking about him "all the time."

Your "translations" were very insightful.

It sounds to me like your wife searched out and found this guy, not the other way around. She says "I found you because ... I think about you all the time!" So it was your wife who initiated contact.

Nip this in the bud. Ask her about it. It hasn't gone far enough that it will be a problem. Make up a story about why you were on her computer or Facebook, that you were looking for something and saw this and it made you uncomfortable.

It's very important that you not come across as angry.

Tell her, I didn't know you were thinking about him all the time. Why are you thinking about him "all the time"? Ask questions about him. Find out who he is, how she knows him, did they ever date, where he lives, what is his wife's name, how old are their kids. And why does she think about him "all the time." Emphasize that to her - "all the time."

Don't let her just shrug it off and change the subject.

Then bring up your marriage, how is it going, what the two of you can do to make it better, and why don't you get started on making it better right now. Take that approach.

Trust me, it's better to do what I'm suggesting now than to have to deal with an emotional affair a month from now.

These Facebook affairs progress at the speed of light. The progression below takes two weeks or maybe even less. In less than a month it is a full-blown emotional affair with "I love you's" "soul mates" and plans to leave their spouses to be together forever. So please take action now. It will not drive her to the affair, but it may stop it. It goes like this (from a poster named F-102):

_They first start catching up, and it's all "How you been doing? What have you been up to?"

Then it would have morphed into talk about:

What they've been doing since they parted
Their significant others since they parted
Their families
Their favorite music, movies, etc.
Their spouses
You
Your job
How your job keeps you away
How lonely she gets when you're away
How she looks forward to their conversations all the time now
How she loves talking to him
How she gets "bored" talking to you
How you don't always listen
How you're not "perfect"
How you can be so insensitive sometimes
How she wonders if she would have stayed with him
How he understands her
How he knows how to make her feel good
How you fail at this
How you are such an a**hole
How she feels young again
How she hasn't felt this happy with you in so long
How he's a better man than you'll ever be
How she wants to see him again
How they can meet under the radar
How she's thought of leaving you
How she ever could have fallen for a jerk like you
How he's her soul mate
How she made a big mistake leaving him
How she made an even bigger mistake marrying you
How they were meant to be together...

...get the picture?​_


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

walkonmars said:


> :iagree: completely. Iceburg ahead!


And approaching quickly.


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## jfv (May 29, 2012)

You should definitely ask her why YOUR wife is thinking about another man 'all the time'. And ask her what message does she think she's sending him by saying this.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

A lot of MLC involve more time spent on appearance and working out. Hitting forty is a shock to many people. This is not necessarily a bad thing. Your wife is getting in shape and looking better. Maybe it's for your benefit too. I believe the majority of people who have this type of MLC never go beyond dressing younger and trying to look younger. They may even fantasize.

BUT, there is a large percentage who will begin to act out their mid-life crisis and try to go back to their "single" stage of life. The difference is, these types will act out their fantasies.

I think there are a lot of red flags - but not enough to conclude. You have to be vigilant. You might have to snoop a little. Just remember - this COULD be innocent. Just keep your guard up.

The problem of course is that you can only prove she is cheating - you can never prove she isn't. Remember that. You need to have a point where you can say - I've checked, and I haven't found anything and just accept that and go back to trusting your wife. Otherwise your suspicions will kill your marriage. 

On the other hand - if you find something incriminating - gather enough evidence to confront and then follow the advice you'll get here.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I don't know if it's a MLC. She is definately not feeling a strong connection to you and so she is open to attention from other men.

Before this goes any further get the book "Surviving An Affair" by Dr. Harley. Yea I know it's not an affair yet. But you can head it off if you know what to do. Read the book. Don't let her see you reading the book.

Then, after that get "His Needs, Her Needs" also by Dr. Harley and read, learn, do.

If you can afford it take her on a marriage enrichment long weeking. 

MarriageBuilders.com has one that people say is good. 

Marriage Help Program For Couples has one that I've heard good things about. There are others that you can research.


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## StillLife (Jan 19, 2013)

AlexDeLarge said:


> WTF Is wrong with people today. He's married with a family just like us. How do two people randomly just reconnect on FB and within seconds just willingly start an affair? I'm trying to be level headed and objective about this, but I cannot read it any other way. I mean the attitude is like "Oh everybody's doing it. It's the in thing now. It's fine."
> 
> I would NEVER EVER in a million years cheat. And what infuriates me is that I'm the one who is exposed to temptation all the time. I'm in an industry where I interface with lots of wealthy, young, attractive people. I have temptation at every corner but I shut it down. She's a stay at home mom and I'm killing myself at work and never seeing my kids so she can look for old HS flames on FB with all her free time???
> 
> I'm incensed...


Have found myself wondering the same thing lately as 2 weeks ago I heard on a recorder my wife showing all her goods and giving a guy online a demonstration of our vibrator. 5 months before that she was having another online affair with a married guy. I SERIOUSLY hope your wife is not like mine, but your gut is telling you there is something seriously wrong here, and it doesn't lie. Hopefully you have caught it in time and this was just her first time sticking her toe in the water of potential infidelity. 

I'm going to suggest what some of the others have though, and hold off on confronting just now. That may push her into going into lockdown. This is enough of a red flag, that you need to be asking yourself if this is just her first foray into these kinds of questionable interactions. Do like others have said...purchase a voice activated recorder from a big box store for like $30-40 bucks and put it in her car. Do some research into key loggers and put one on her computer. Yeah, there's a possibility you're going to feel like a paranoid freak, but you've got good reason to arm yourself to defend what is essentially your life here.

Time for some marriage counseling to figure out why your wife might be unhappy or potentially shopping around. What's behind all these major changes involving sprucing herself up to the point of being potentially attractive to other men.

The social networking stuff is a beast when it comes to marriages though. Ugh. Mine was destroyed by it, as were countless others. Look around here and you'll see. They have allowed an opportunity for temptation in the form of potential partners to enter and linger around your home any time you're not there. It's not like I would have ever been ok with some guy coming into my house and sitting down to talk with my wife for hours on end, but that's the reality of what happens due to this technology.


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## StillLife (Jan 19, 2013)

Will_Kane said:


> It goes like this (from a poster named F-102):
> 
> _They first start catching up, and it's all "How you been doing? What have you been up to?"
> 
> ...


Hah! That's hilarious and sad at the same time. That's so similar to how both of my wife's affairs played out.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

Keylogger on the computer before confrontation. Otherwise, she'll just change the password to deny you access.

Try and find his wife's info, save it, and get ready.

This is not good at all.


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## AlexDeLarge (Jan 28, 2012)

So cooler heads have prevailed and for the moment I said nothing. She just went to bed a short while ago and this was the next message to him:

"I have no clue what happened to <blah blah blah...> What do you do for a living, I was telling my husband as I reflected on you, how smart you were way back then, I remember you really excelled in Math. Wondering if that took you places in your job today????? Definitely set something up, if your in contact w. people, as far as a night out or lunch or something. That would be too fun!

As for grown up, yes I am, in fact facing older age, lol., going to fast. Just had my 20 year highschool reunion. Crazy !!!! But thanks for the props. I'll take em!"

Everything here sounds perfectly fine and in many ways is diffusing the whole flirting thing EXCEPT she didn't mention him to me AT ALL tonight!!! Has she mentioned him in the past? Yes I know the name but certainly never talked about his talents or whatever the hell...

It doesn't totally add up though. Why is she withholding this from me yet bringing me into the convo like she is talking about him with me???


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## AlphaHalf (Aug 5, 2012)

SHUT THAT $H!T DOWN IMMEDIATELY!!!!! Get online and Tell the OM you would like to meet him and have a talk. 

Tell him your WIFE is no longer "Maiden Name". She is a Sexy grown MARRIED woman, who has a husband that doesn't tolerate another man trying to seduce her. And if he needs to further discuss this issue you can meet him in person and get to the bottom of this whole situation. Tell him to never contact your wife again or you will be forced to arrange the meeting between the both of you.

Then let your wife know how you feel about her not respecting the marriage by contacting another man and engaging with flirtatious behavior behind your back.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

AlexDeLarge said:


> So cooler heads have prevailed and for the moment I said nothing. She just went to bed a short while ago and this was the next message to him:
> 
> "I have no clue what happened to <blah blah blah...> What do you do for a living, I was telling my husband as I reflected on you, how smart you were way back then, I remember you really excelled in Math. Wondering if that took you places in your job today????? Definitely set something up, if your in contact w. people, as far as a night out or lunch or something. That would be too fun!
> 
> ...


Her mention of you was non-committal, just that she told you about him. She was trying to get some info about him and what he's up to. Maybe this is innocent catching up, but maybe not. It doesn't hurt to tell her you stumbled upon this and were wondering why she is thinking about him "all the time." Her mention of you in this email does nothing to slow down what is happening, which could be, but probably is not, nothing. Look at the list of how Facebook affairs with old friends progress. If you are going to say nothing to your wife about any of this, monitor closely and take action if it reaches the point that she crosses the line.

If (when) you do confront, don't ever apologize for protecting your marriage.


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## AlphaHalf (Aug 5, 2012)

IMHO........Just don't sit by too long and watch as the bonding process sinks it hooks in. The more they talk and the less she tells you about it is the beginning of the storm. Either way she is going to downplay if innocent and will downplay it if guilty. You want to do maintenance not repair. Make your presence and feelings known to both the OM and your wife. If there is to be a meeting then its only respectful IF YOUR THERE. 

How can the OM NOT expect a husband to get upset if another man is complimenting there wife while its assumed the husband is not around. MAN CODE. He is old enough to know better.


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

Clarification needed....

Him:
Has there ever been a jr high reunion? If not we should do one.

Her:
I don't see anyone from HS other than facebook
would love a reunion
Just had my 20 year highschool reunion


How does your wife know this guy? Jr high or high school? Going by their conversation, it is a bit confusing, but the high school reunion comment by your wife seems to indicate they did not go to high school together :scratchhead: Suggesting a jr high reunion seems odd.


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## AlexDeLarge (Jan 28, 2012)

AlphaHalf said:


> IMHO........Just don't sit by too long and watch as the bonding process sinks it hooks in. The more they talk and the less she tells you about it is the beginning of the storm. Either way she is going to downplay if innocent and will downplay it if guilty. You want to do maintenance not repair. Make your presence and feelings known to both the OM and your wife. If there is to be a meeting then its only respectful IF YOUR THERE.


So I must say I'm really on the fence about this. My impetuous reaction is to say WTF are you doing to her and shut it down entirely. But at the same time I have to say that there are many things that I've done over the years that taken out of context, could be perceived wrong. I've harmlessly flirted sometimes, but it is more about giving yourself validation, and I had absolutely no intention on acting out on the innuendo. I could be making a bigger deal out of this than is really here. At the same time the phrase "think about you all the time" really sticks in my craw. She's very articulate and few words, either written or spoken, are said by her without a clear intent.

Part of me wants to see how far this goes. I mean if she wants an affair, I want to know that. That would completely change my view of her and our marriage. Why the h3ll am I making all these sacrifices for someone who isn't willing to do the same for me? I mean what guy doesn't want to shag every hot 23 year old they see.

One of the sacred things we have in our relationship is our pillow talk. At the end of the night with other couples, we'll joke about how petty they are to each other and how guys and girls keep secrets from each other but we share everything. Now I wonder if all of that is a sham and she is just another one of them...


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## AlexDeLarge (Jan 28, 2012)

SaltInWound said:


> Clarification needed....
> 
> Him:
> Has there ever been a jr high reunion? If not we should do one.
> ...


OK This I know. They went to Jr High together and HS some. Not exactly sure when they dated. Didn't really care until now. He moved to CA sometime during HS. We're in East Coast. Checked his FB profile and that adds up.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Three sample FB texts exchanges between my STBXW and the OM proved to be the proverbial "smoking gun." Now mind you, I'm still living with her and sleeping in the same bed with her at the time, long before any thought or mention of our "trial separation":

STBXW to OM:

"I notice that you're adding female friends to your list.(Meaning her) And that 'talking thing' that leads to that 'not talking thing' is what I call verbal foreplay. When that's great, then you can only imagine that the other will be too!"


OM to STBXW:

"Have a great trip~ I'll be picturing you laid out on the beach in something skimpy!"


STBXW to OM:

"Thought I'd show this to you, but please don't tag me~ too many of Arbitrator's friends would see it."

In essence, if it starts off mild, and remains unchecked, the above is a prime example of what the texting/flirting will quickly escalate to!


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

In my view, women don't lie, men don't listen. She said to him,_ "I found you because (without sounding wierd) I think about you all the time!" "You look GREAT" - quite the same , hope you are well And the dreaded , "would love a reunion. SET IT UP! I'll come!" We live in xxx... not too far._ (so travel time is not a real problem)
What would you think if a chick from your past called you with this conversation. Would you believe she's trying to choreograph a face to face. What red blooded boy wouldn't at least get a tingle at the thought of a MILF riding into town especially to see him. 
Sorry, but I think she's lining up a little afternoon delight while hubby is non the wiser. She can play in someone else pasture and still have the security of the barn.


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## rasana (Feb 6, 2013)

arbitrator said:


> Three sample FB texts exchanges between my STBXW and the OM proved to be the proverbial "smoking gun." Now mind you, I'm still living with her and sleeping in the same bed with her at the time, long before any thought or mention of our "trial separation"


This is so sad, Arbitrator. I read that facebook is quoted in most divorce proceedings now. I wonder whether soon some married couple will 'ban' using it in their marriage, because of many potential threats it brings into the relationship...


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## TomorrowNeverKnows (Jan 27, 2012)

This is ironic because I just wrote a long post earlier today about how FB is facilitator for people to cheat. This situation stinks.

Woman are so much more guarded about expressing sexual interest than men. She's practically begging for an affair. I honestly can't tell if he's probing or just expressing platitudes. Some men are just Eddie Haskell with compliments to every woman if they mean it or not.

Nobody in a healthy marriage is friending old boyfriends on Facebook and then flirting with them right out of the gates. I would not confront her just yet, but NO WAY you let them reunite without you being there.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> *"In my view, women don't lie"*
> 
> Sorry, but I think she's lining up a little afternoon delight while hubby is non the wiser. She can play in someone else pasture and still have the security of the barn.


*Oh, she will lie alright*~ particularly to her husband, and probably on her way out the door "to lie" with the OM!


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## Latigo (Apr 27, 2011)

I would foreward all of this to the OM's wife first. Tell her you are concerned and ask her what she makes of it. I would rather be wrong and say sorry for the misunderstanding than to be right and let the flirty communication build to an EA.


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## martyc47 (Oct 20, 2011)

Ever-Man said:


> Calm down and do not confront at all!!! If you confront her you raise her guard and risk an important window of opportunity for investigation. It sounds like you need to do this, one way or another, so you can clear your mind of suspicians.
> 
> First, notice that she mentioned YOU in her FB thread, her HUSBAND. If a woman has found a man she is intersted in as an affair partner, she is not going to mention the word "husband". In my opinion this could be totally innocent, of course no one knows yet.
> 
> ...


Sorry. I may disagree. There are variables we don't know about. Both were obviously flirting. The "husband" is easily tossed aside once things escalate. Casual mention of the husband can turn into: "I haven't been happy with my husband for a long time. You know, I've been thinking about asking him for a separation but haven't had the confidence. Now I feel good about myself and I'm going to put my happiness first" to later "I asked my husband to separate. We've been in separate bed rooms for a year now." to "We really need to meet up. You really get me."

Personally, I would want to Shut This **** Down, Now. But this depends on some info I don't know if OP has volunteered, like- How does wife's sex rank compare? Can OP go out and have hot 22-25 year-old chicks falling all over him, or is he desperate for validation from wife because she's so "hot" (for a 40 year-old) and the best he can do? What's OM like?

Some things require evidence-gathering, but it depends. Other things need to be shut-down before evidence gathering is the only choice.


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## martyc47 (Oct 20, 2011)

AlexDeLarge said:


> Everything here sounds perfectly fine and in many ways is diffusing the whole flirting thing EXCEPT she didn't mention him to me AT ALL tonight!!! Has she mentioned him in the past? Yes I know the name but certainly never talked about his talents or whatever the hell...
> 
> It doesn't totally add up though. Why is she withholding this from me yet bringing me into the convo like she is talking about him with me???


Because she's letting him know she wants a "night out with him"- which she specifically said, and that since she's been talking to you about him, you are totally cool with your wife going out and hanging out with this old friend. She's playing you and portraying you as a clueless chump.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

AlexDeLarge said:


> What do you do for a living, I was telling my husband as I reflected on you, how smart you were way back then, I remember you really excelled in Math. Wondering if that took you places in your job today????


 This is her finding out if he has a good career. In other words, is he a loser or is he a winner. This is important info to know about a fantasy target that she "thinks about all of the time".



AlexDeLarge said:


> Definitely set something up, if your in contact w. people, as far as a night out or lunch or something. That would be too fun!


 The "if you are in contact w. people" is a low bar that could mean just this other man and one other guy from the past as a standard for setting something up. She did not tell you about this conversation because you were not to be included in the night out or lunch or something.

*Save copies or screen shots of these text messages before she deletes them.*


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## jfv (May 29, 2012)

AlexDeLarge said:


> So cooler heads have prevailed and for the moment I said nothing. She just went to bed a short while ago and this was the next message to him:
> 
> "I have no clue what happened to <blah blah blah...> What do you do for a living, I was telling my husband as I reflected on you, how smart you were way back then, I remember you really excelled in Math. Wondering if that took you places in your job today????? Definitely set something up, if your in contact w. people, as far as a night out or lunch or something. That would be too fun!
> 
> ...


Why is it diffusing the 'whole flirting thing' She just accepted and acknowledged his compliment, complimented him AGAIN and got more specific about possible activites like lunch and or 'a night out'. 
Alex, keep in my mind she doesn't have to be looking for an affair, at least not conciously... for this to be the start of something that ends your marriage. YES this is the beginning. Keep monitoring and if you see that they indeed set something up and she doesn't invite you OR just get more flirty or even worse in some ways, the messages start getting more personal then make your prescence felt to BOTH. Make sure you gather as much information on him as quickly as you can. Start stockpiling your arsenal NOW, while you have access. Be patient but don't wait too long.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

*I went through the exact same same thing 3 years ago*. You are in the early stages of this and you can stop it before there are any real consequences,* if you have the balls to do it.* When I discovered the e-mails between my wife and her ex-boyfriend from HS; first I copied them, then I deleted them from her e-mail. I then deleted his email address from her address book and I put a block on his mail address so no e-mails could get in from him or out to him. Then I blocked Facebook at the router (no access to Facebook for anyone in the house) and I waited for her to say something. When she did, I told her I found the e-mails (which were benign BTW) and I said that I didn't like her being in contact with an ex boyfriend without my knowing about it. Long story short, I told her if she wants to have a relationship, of any kind no matter how innocent with her old HS boyfriend, she has to leave; I had no plans to make it easy for another guy to hit on her. I also told her that when the kids ask me why they can't access Facebook, I will tell them it's because their mother is talking to other men on line. After a week, she agreed to my wishes.

There is no room for EX's in a marriage. A marriage is between two people, not three and I'm willing to bet that if you don't do something quickly, your wife will be fvcking this guy at some point in the not to distant future. *Don't be a jerk ... do something about this!*


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

Alex, if your child suddenly rekindled a friendship with someone who's a drug dealer, what would you do? Would you wait to see if your child could resist the urge to use drugs? Or would you try to shut the relationship down?

Why the hell are you 'testing' your wife's faithfulness by your inaction? She hasn't cheated yet? And in her mind probably has no intention to do so? But she's getting external validation from a guy from her past and this is quite a slippery slope that she's on.

I only wished that I had had the opportunity that you have now to shut this thing down before it goes any further. She thinks about him all the time? First the thought and then the act - and that's a fact.

Your marriage could be over in a matter of weeks if you don't act. You have enough evidence to confront her with. Also, I would pay the old BF a visit and share this info with his wife. The wife of my ex's OM caught his inappropriate Facebook communication with my then wife and had him go no contact with her. But she failed to let me know and they took the relationship underground for two years. By then, it was too late for me.

This is no time to be passive. You can still do the evidence gathering things that were suggested but you need to let everyone involved know that you will not sit idly by and watch your marriage be destroyed.


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## AlphaHalf (Aug 5, 2012)

> I could be making a bigger deal out of this than is really here. At the same time the phrase "think about you all the time" really sticks in my craw. She's very articulate and few words, either written or spoken, are said by her without a clear intent.


You know your wife more then anyone, If your gut is telling you something then follow it. The bigger deal is your wife having feelings with another man. Protect your marriage and reinforce the boundaries of opposite sex friendships with her and yourself. 

I would visit the OM and make it known that "Maiden Name" is taken and when he is playing innocent tell him your not hearing his Bull$h!t.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

AlexDeLarge said:


> HIM
> Belated happy b-day!


 This shows her that he still remembers her birthday. What a great guy, I hope that you never forgot.



AlexDeLarge said:


> HIM
> I will always think of you as <maiden name>.


 This is him telling her that he does not want to acknowledge that she is married and thus taken.



AlexDeLarge said:


> WIFE
> I found you because (without sounding wierd) I think about you all the time!


 She found him, meaning that she was looking for him. Since she is the pursuer and instigated contact, it is now much easier for him to take it to the next step without sounding weird.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

TRy said:


> This shows her that he still remembers her birthday. What a great guy, I hope that you never forgot.
> 
> This is him telling her that he does not want to acknowledge that she is married and thus taken.
> 
> She found him, meaning that she was looking for him. Since she is the pursuer and instigated contact, it is now much easier for him to take it to the next step without sounding weird.


Just by reading this, it just shows all too clearly the clandestined, covert operations of my STBXW in making FB contact with her OMen, coming on to them and having them verbally(and later physically) acquiese her wishes and desires; all transpiring while I didn't even suspect a solitary thing, waking up and kissing her, and telling her just how much I loved her nearly every morning.

Had I the knowledge of her infidelious activity, richly at the time of its occurence, then maybe I could have put myself into position to have done something to circumvent it. But then again, maybe not!

In any event, please don't allow yourself to be caught flat-footed as some poor unsuspecting "dupe", much like myself, and then find out that the EA has progressed well beyond the point of decimating the love and trust in your marriage. 

Unlike me, you already have the information. Don't ignore it or sweep it over in the corner, hoping that the wind will blow it away. Start playing detective and only share with her what you feel like you need to.

And if your suspicions come to the sordid fruition of infidelity, then by all means, please feel free to share it with the OM's wife as well. You would be more than justified in doing so!


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

you have two choices .....wait and catch her after the fact and divorce or go ape sh*t on her right now and tell her any type of flirting is a deal breaker and that from now on every thing is transparent between you two.


but I think if someone has a charachter flaw might as well do the first one start an exit plan and live happy ever after with some one who isn't skeeming behind your back!


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## AlexDeLarge (Jan 28, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> *I went through the exact same same thing 3 years ago*. You are in the early stages of this and you can stop it before there are any real consequences,* if you have the balls to do it.*


This has nothing to do with having balls to do it. I want to know how far she is willing to go! I mean do I really want to be with someone who would rather be ****ing someone else??? This has come as a total shock to me but now there is no way I can just drop it or pretend it was nothing. If I confront her now, of course she'll end it. But I'll spend the rest of this marriage being suspicious. Once trust is violated, how do you ever earn that back? I'm not going to resort to installing a keylogger and monitoring every goddam thing she does. The marriage is over any way at that point. It's then just a piece a paper and a prison for someone who obviously would rather be elsewhere...


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

I'm of a bit different mind than others. I would only now mention being uncomfortable with her being in contact with old boyfriends.

I smell something NOT good you have not seen yet underground and I think you need the keylogger and VAR in her car. I'm NOT saying wait a month. I'm saying 1 to 2 weeks. File this under the do not reveal sources thing... My spidey senses are acting up and you may make it even harder to detect if you reveal you can see her FB conversations.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

AlexDeLarge said:


> This has nothing to do with having balls to do it. I want to know how far she is willing to go! I mean do I really want to be with someone who would rather be ****ing someone else??? This has come as a total shock to me but now there is no way I can just drop it or pretend it was nothing. If I confront her now, of course she'll end it. But I'll spend the rest of this marriage being suspicious. Once trust is violated, how do you ever earn that back? I'm not going to resort to installing a keylogger and monitoring every goddam thing she does. The marriage is over any way at that point. It's then just a piece a paper and a prison for someone who obviously would rather be elsewhere...


Catch-22!

You can either stop it and wonder, or let it go and wonder for the rest of your life. She MAY NEVER take the step you are "wondering" about now. Then you get to stress over EVERY male contact she develops.

I know you are angry, I was, but If I had it to do over again I'd use spyware, a VAR and put my foot down when I first saw the phone number. I was fine when I thought it was innocent, now I question EVERY guy. One "almost" is much easier than many "potential" in my book.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

AlexDeLarge said:


> This has nothing to do with having balls to do it. I want to know how far she is willing to go! I mean do I really want to be with someone who would rather be ****ing someone else??? This has come as a total shock to me but now there is no way I can just drop it or pretend it was nothing. If I confront her now, of course she'll end it. But I'll spend the rest of this marriage being suspicious. Once trust is violated, how do you ever earn that back? I'm not going to resort to installing a keylogger and monitoring every goddam thing she does. The marriage is over any way at that point. It's then just a piece a paper and a prison for someone who obviously would rather be elsewhere...


You say you want to know how far she will take this but you shy away from using the tools that will give you the truth or at least a better understanding of what is going on.

Make up your mind.

Ignore it and be the rugsweeping husband or step up and investigate. 

If you truly want the truth you have to use every tool available to get the entire truth. There is nothing wrong or immoral about monitoring a spouses activity if you have suspicions. 

It might just prove that you were reading too much into the exchange and it really is innocent, or it might be the beginning of the end of your marriage. Why would you not want to know which it is?


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

AlexDeLarge said:


> This has nothing to do with having balls to do it. I want to know how far she is willing to go! I mean do I really want to be with someone who would rather be ****ing someone else??? This has come as a total shock to me but now there is no way I can just drop it or pretend it was nothing. If I confront her now, of course she'll end it. But I'll spend the rest of this marriage being suspicious. Once trust is violated, how do you ever earn that back? I'm not going to resort to installing a keylogger and monitoring every goddam thing she does. The marriage is over any way at that point. It's then just a piece a paper and a prison for someone who obviously would rather be elsewhere...


This suspicion will most likely remain with you no matter who you have as a partner from now on.


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## AlexDeLarge (Jan 28, 2012)

TRy said:


> This shows her that he still remembers her birthday. What a great guy, I hope that you never forgot.


Her b-day was last week. My guess is he saw the notice on FB but if he did remember, that's significant.

I was poking around his FB page and noted a few things. 772 friends! Who the hell over thirty has 772 FB friends! I'm too damn busy for that crap and am only on FB so my wife can tag me all the time... He's got tons of pictures of his kids and family, but he also seems to be a musician or in a band or something. Lots of pictures that strike me as "I'm cool. I go out a lot". I could totally see this guy being a douche bag predator of married women.


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## AlexDeLarge (Jan 28, 2012)

TDSC60 said:


> You say you want to know how far she will take this but you shy away from using the tools that will give you the truth or at least a better understanding of what is going on.


OK not what I meant. I already installed a keylogger and will enable one of those where is my iPhone apps but that is the extent to it. Putting a camera in her car is creepy.

What I meant to say, is if I put an end to this now, I'm going to spend the rest of my life wondering and would feel the need to keep keyloggers and cameras all over the place. That's no marriage.

I'd rather use those tools now to discover what her real intent is here. If she is looking for an affair, we go to counseling immediately or are done. If he hits on her, I feel this is almost a certainty, and she rejects, then I uninstall all the crap and go back to life as normal...


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

OP,

I think you should monitor via keylogger and VAR for a short period of time too to see if she goes to the next level in her communication or let's him get away with talking to a married woman in an inappropriate way.

Keep copies of everything so if you need to, you can expose him to his wife

like you noted a couple of times, while the conversations could be headed down the wrong path, I'm not 100% sure they are or will and believe me I'm on of the first to call Bullsh!t on a spouse!


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

AlexDeLarge said:


> Her b-day was last week. My guess is he saw the notice on FB but if he did remember, that's significant.
> 
> I was poking around his FB page and noted a few things. 772 friends! Who the hell over thirty has 772 FB friends! I'm too damn busy for that crap and am only on FB so my wife can tag me all the time... He's got tons of pictures of his kids and family, but he also seems to be a musician or in a band or something. Lots of pictures that strike me as "I'm cool. I go out a lot". I could totally see this guy being a douche bag predator of married women.


You need to cool down a little bit here. Right now, your wife and this guy may not have any ulterior motives other than trying to catch up on old times. Neither may be looking to cheat and both may feel like they are happily married. However, if this goes on unchecked, those innocent feelings MAY morph into something dangerous to your marriage. That is why people are telling you to nip this in the bud and let your wife know that you see her communicating with this guy and it is not OK with you. If she is happily married, she'll probably drop him and life goes on (but verify contact is dropped for at least a few months). If she gives you flack and accuses you of being controlling, then you may have a serious issue to deal with and she may be looking to cheat on you - even if it isn't this guy.

Also, FYI on facebook. Most people are becoming friends with other people either thru the social media games out there or they are in a business where people can "like" their FB page and thus become "friends". So this friend of your wife's may have over 700 friends simply because he's a musician and people may want to follow him in order to see where he is going to be playing his next gig at. IDK.


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## 2asdf2 (Jun 5, 2012)

AlexDeLarge said:


> This has nothing to do with having balls to do it. I want to know how far she is willing to go! I mean do I really want to be with someone who would rather be ****ing someone else??? This has come as a total shock to me but now there is no way I can just drop it or pretend it was nothing. *If I confront her now, of course she'll end it.* But I'll spend the rest of this marriage being suspicious. Once trust is violated, how do you ever earn that back? I'm not going to resort to installing a keylogger and monitoring every goddam thing she does. The marriage is over any way at that point. It's then just a piece a paper and a prison for someone who obviously would rather be elsewhere...


There are a lot of TAM examples to contradict you.

In your case, I hope it is right.


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## AlexDeLarge (Jan 28, 2012)

2asdf2 said:


> There are a lot of TAM examples to contradict you.
> 
> In your case, I hope it is right.


Are you saying there are healthy marriages where one spouse monitors everything the other one does???


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

AlexDeLarge said:


> Are you saying there are healthy marriages where one spouse monitors everything the other one does???


This is what they call a red herring. A healthy marriage is an entirely different discussion. 
2 is referring to all of the TAM people who confront, with minimal information and the contact moves into a harder to track realm.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

Alex, are there other problems in your marriage?

Correct me if I'm wrong but you seem almost too willing to let this morph into an actual EA or PA so that you can end your marriage.

Realize that everyone is capable of being unfaithful under the right or wrong circumstances. Now is not the time to 'test' how far she'll go - if you really want to save your marriage.

I sense that her having an affair might be your ticket out.

(BTW, I hope that I'm wrong in my assessment.)


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

AlexDeLarge said:


> Are you saying there are healthy marriages where one spouse monitors everything the other one does???


Right now for you it's trust but verify. There are no secrets in a marriage.


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## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

I think you should go back and read that list posted by walkonmars (I believe it was him...who also gives excellent advice, BTW), no one starts at the top of that list and jumps immediately to the bottom. Your wife did not message him specifically to jump in the sack with him. Likely just fishing. Fishing for a compliment, to see if he has lived up to her fantasy of him. If things move along and progress the way they always do, you'd be surprised at how many people who "normally couldn't imagine doing such a thing" have and are "doing such things". Some of them even doing things they could never even have dreamed of doing!!!

Why do you suppose it takes everyone by surprise when you get the gossip of someone who was cheating? How many times do you hear the "really doesn't surprise me, she always seemed like a dirty *****". Not very often...

If you think you are married to someone who "wouldn't" or "couldn't" have an affair, then you are in fantasy land yourself. I'm not bashing you. I was there. I think most of us were. But something woke us up! Would you rather have that "something" be a close call? A wake up call to your marriage that all is not perfect in Oz? Something you can work on it to make it better? Or would you rather have that wake up call be the knife sticking from your chest? And the women you loved and trusted telling you things you never thought she could do?

Affairs ruin people and relationships. Why wait for that to happen? Just to see?


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

AlexDeLarge said:


> 772 friends! Who the hell over thirty has 772 FB friends! I'm too damn busy for that crap and am only on FB so my wife can tag me all the time...


IF he were under 25 he would likely have over 1000++++ FB games can add alot of game only friends.

NOTE VAR equals voice activated recorder and is not a camera.


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## martyc47 (Oct 20, 2011)

AlexDeLarge said:


> This has nothing to do with having balls to do it. I want to know how far she is willing to go! I mean do I really want to be with someone who would rather be ****ing someone else??? This has come as a total shock to me but now there is no way I can just drop it or pretend it was nothing. If I confront her now, of course she'll end it. But I'll spend the rest of this marriage being suspicious. Once trust is violated, how do you ever earn that back? I'm not going to resort to installing a keylogger and monitoring every goddam thing she does. The marriage is over any way at that point. It's then just a piece a paper and a prison for someone who obviously would rather be elsewhere...


Sometimes you have to make a stand and "pass a test" so to speak. If you shut stuff like this down, it doesn't necessarily mean your wife is going to keep doing it. Sometimes the way you handle this stuff determines whether she is going to be "that type of person" because how the spouse acts also depends on the person they are married to, such as what kind of man you are.

My point is, you can stop it.. or you can see where it leads, which is basically the same as giving permission to cheat or possibly subconsciously wanting her to cheat for whatever reason, IMHO.


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## Rob774 (Sep 27, 2010)

2asdf2 said:


> There are a lot of TAM examples to contradict you.
> 
> In your case, I hope it is right.


Exactly!
If he confronts her, and she's really into this guy... then she goes underground with it. Which is why its essential to the OP to take the advice of others like Toffer mentioning, install those devices man. So if she tried to go covert on you... bam! You've got her in her call talking to him on her cell. Or you have her emailing him on the computer.

That's why marriages have to have boundaries. I agree with the poster who said NO Ex's on FB. Actually, nobody from either parties past that they were once intimate with should be friends. I've been preaching that since i joined this board. Its just too much temptation. Remember that chick that you used to make squirt??? When you start struggling in your marriage, do you really need to have her as a contact , especially when you can't sleep with your own wife. 

Ladies? Remember that dude, that was hung like a horse, that use to beat that p----y up to the point where your neighbors called the cops, cause you were screaming so much. Do you really need to be an IM away from that guy??? I don't think so.

OP, set the traps, CALMLY confront... and then check the results. I believe to trust... but verify. Be careful of the warning signs of trickle truth and gaslighting!


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## martyc47 (Oct 20, 2011)

AlexDeLarge said:


> If he hits on her, I feel this is almost a certainty, and she rejects, then I uninstall all the crap and go back to life as normal...


I think this is short-sighted. Once the seed is planted, there's a possibility persistence can pay off for the OM. A lot of people reject certain advances from potential romantic partners but file them away in a sort of "maybe later" box. And they might go back to them when things are different- like if you have a fight or the husband does something "wrong." Then they can think "Hmm, this guy really wanted me. He makes me feel special. I didn't think it was right at the time, but maybe I should give it a chance."

I think even if she rejects his advances, there's already a dangerous environment here. In some way, you are going to have to let her know this isn't OK and/or show her that you have value and you are not going to allow cheating. And that if she even thinks about cheating in the future she is going to lose a good thing that is irreplaceable, and she's not going to be allowed to cake-eat.


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## martyc47 (Oct 20, 2011)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Right now, your wife and this guy may not have any ulterior motives other than trying to catch up on old times.


There's really nothing to "catch up on" when it comes to Exes. I apply this to old friends, as well- if there is no current or future plans to resume the relationship. The Past happened in the past- it doesn't "catch up."

Anyone who wants to "catch up" with an Ex, is literally trying to inject that Ex into the current/future path of his life. I can't think of any reason for someone to want to catch up with someone unless one or both is putting out feelers to resume something. otherwise there is no point.

It makes as much sense as cheaters wanting "closure" with an ex-AP. It's either done and closed or it's not.


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## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

martyc47 said:


> I think this is short-sighted. Once the seed is planted, there's a possibility persistence can pay off for the OM. A lot of people reject certain advances from potential romantic partners but file them away in a sort of "maybe later" box. And they might go back to them when things are different- like if you have a fight or the husband does something "wrong." Then they can think "Hmm, this guy really wanted me. He makes me feel special. I didn't think it was right at the time, but maybe I should give it a chance."


If I can believe anything my STBXW says (and I can't but it makes a point), is that her decision to move her affair from an EA to a PA was a jealous fit she had when she saw a woman hitting on me. She became really upset at me and accused me of hitting on her and cheating (of course I see this now as her projection of what she was doing) BUUUUT, in her mind it gave her the green light to go from "flirty-flirty" to all out hair pulling sex! 

YMMV. Just sayin, she will be looking for any reason to continue this bad behavior, IMHO, unless it is stopped. And even if she stops it on her own, the next time she is feeling this way about you, or your marriage, or her own insecurities, she will go back to it. One month, 6 months, one year down the road. When you have forgotten all about it and gone back to normal.


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## Calling All Angels (Jan 3, 2013)

I am a stay at home mom like your wife. Turning 40 was good and bad for me. Sex was always great and then at 40 it was AMAZING. My husband was not able to keep up and I was disappointed for years. If your wife is feeling anything like I was, start giving her extra attention, tell her how sexy she is. She is at her peak and if you step up your game she will have no desire to look for attention from others. Plan a romantic night away and knock her socks off!! These next few years could be AMAZING in your marriage. Start planning dates and give her something to look forward to. Show her that you love her. Valentines Day is coming tell her you have something special planned. I bet the contact with the other guy would stop. I just thought a new point of view may help. My H did the same thing on FB and he got her Number within a week and they have been talking every night since November. So I understand exactly how you are feeling. I'm divorcing for many reasons, but I hope you are able to keep your marriage on track. Show her how much she means to you today. You can make a difference in your marriage. It gets boring being the caregiver year after year, some men don't realize that. If I had something to look forward to years ago it would have made a difference. Have some fun!!


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

Calling All Angels said:


> I am a stay at home mom like your wife. Turning 40 was good and bad for me. Sex was always great and then at 40 it was AMAZING. My husband was not able to keep up and I was disappointed for years. If your wife is feeling anything like I was, start giving her extra attention, tell her how sexy she is. She is at her peak and if you step up your game she will have no desire to look for attention from others. Plan a romantic night away and knock her socks off!! These next few years could be AMAZING in your marriage. Start planning dates and give her something to look forward to. Show her that you love her. Valentines Day is coming tell her you have something special planned. I bet the contact with the other guy would stop. I just thought a new point of view may help. My H did the same thing on FB and he got her Number within a week and they have been talking every night since November. So I understand exactly how you are feeling. I'm divorcing for many reasons, but I hope you are able to keep your marriage on track. Show her how much she means to you today. You can make a difference in your marriage. It gets boring being the caregiver year after year, some men don't realize that. If I had something to look forward to years ago it would have made a difference. Have some fun!!


CAA, great advice!

But before he does any of the things you suggest, he needs to nip this affair-in-the-making in the proverbial bud.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

martyc47 said:


> There's really nothing to "catch up on" when it comes to Exes. I apply this to old friends, as well- if there is no current or future plans to resume the relationship. The Past happened in the past- it doesn't "catch up."
> 
> Anyone who wants to "catch up" with an Ex, is literally trying to inject that Ex into the current/future path of his life. I can't think of any reason for someone to want to catch up with someone unless one or both is putting out feelers to resume something. otherwise there is no point.
> 
> It makes as much sense as cheaters wanting "closure" with an ex-AP. It's either done and closed or it's not.


I agree that the past should stay in the past unless you have a need to reconnect. However, I think people do have the thought of "catching up" with someone in the past even if the goal is to not have regular contact moving forward. Look at HS class reunions as a guide to the mindset some people have. For the record, I don't think this woman should be contacting an ex BF no matter how innocent her intentions may be. 

My point is to state that the OP cannot automatically assume the wife is contacting this guy with the intention to cheat. Over time, this may be the outcome but I don't think her current state of mind is to pursue a relationship at this time with this guy. Exactly why I believe that the OP needs to talk to his wife about this now before something unexpected develops between these two.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Quietly put a key logger on the PC. Hide a VAR in the house and in WW car. Gather intel. Do not confront but get counsel here first.

Monitor all phone bills.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

AlexDeLarge said:


> Are you saying there are healthy marriages where one spouse monitors everything the other one does???


In my marriage we have no privacy. I have access to everything of hers and she has access to everything of mine. We routinely tell each other where we are and where we are going. We check in with each other all the time. Our cell phones have GPS and we keep it active so we always know where the other is (my wife feels its a good safety issue.) I check her computer occasionally and she checks mine. She doesn't have any friends on Facebook that I don't know and approve of and likewise for me. When you marry you join your lives completely. Everything I do affects my wife and everything she does affects me. Honestly, if my wife asked to place a VAR in my car I wouldn't object in the least and I dare say she wouldn't either. Although my first wife did in fact cheat on me my current wife has never been disloyal in any way. Its just how we conduct our marriage and it has always worked for us.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

AlexDeLarge said:


> This has nothing to do with having balls to do it. I want to know how far she is willing to go! I mean do I really want to be with someone who would rather be ****ing someone else???


I thought about doing that too, but it only lasted an hour. My wife was at the stage where yours is now, a few e-mails back and forth, nothing to be to concerned about except one thing, this ex-bf lived pretty close to us and they both seemed surprised to learn it. When I got to the e-mail where he suggested to my wife that they get together for lunch or dinner, that's when I saw stars and went nuclear. I'm glad I did. It was rough for about 5 days after but all worth it in the end. If she was insistent on getting in contact with him after knowing how I felt, I told her she would have to go. I am telling you it worked, she now knows the boundary lines she can't cross. IMO waiting is a mistake. Take control of the situation and don't let her fall into the hands of someone who is being predatory.



AlexDeLarge said:


> This has come as a total shock to me but now there is no way I can just drop it or pretend it was nothing. If I confront her now, of course she'll end it. But I'll spend the rest of this marriage being suspicious. Once trust is violated, how do you ever earn that back? I'm not going to resort to installing a keylogger and monitoring every goddam thing she does. The marriage is over any way at that point. It's then just a piece a paper and a prison for someone who obviously would rather be elsewhere...


When this happened to me, I didn't have the benefit of TAM and the good people here to help me, I had to fly by the seat of my pants. Take some time to look around some of the other threads here. There are many guys lamenting that they should have taken strong action when their wives were having cute texting and flirting relationships with "friends" and "ex's". It didn't take very long before their wives were bringing "cream pies" (no joke) home to them and they are trying to get over it now. If you value your marriage, don't play this game, go ape sh1t on her now! If you're looking for an easy way out of the marriage, then let this continue; she'll be bringing the pies home in short order.


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## ormd (Jan 29, 2013)

Alex please listen to The Middleman ,he's dead on right .

My wife wanted to start e-mailing an old HS boyfriend a few years ago .

We'd been married about 33 years at that time . 

This was a guy she had had a 4 yr BF/GF relationship with and this guy had never had sex with my wife !

Well I darn sure knew he wanted to finally "seal the deal" and that their "talking about old times " was just a ploy of his to finally get in her pants.

My response when she asked me if I minded that they correspond was as follows.
"Nope , If you e-mail him I'll have divorce papers drawn up in the morning " 
I was as serious as a heart attack and my wife knew it.

She first argued , then she threw a fit and in the end was grumpy for a day . And that was the end of it .

I can honestly tell you that if my wife had carried on an e-mail banter with her old BF I would have split my property ASAP and divorced her .
Oh we'll be married 43 year this August.

You are at a cross roads. One way will lead to the ruin of your marriage the other will have your wife mad at you for a short time and then she will respect you more for standing up to her and for you marriage.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

AlexDeLarge said:


> So I will preface this by saying I am not the paranoid type, but I noticed all the signs of serious MLC with my wife these days. She recently turned 40 and is dressing 15 years younger than she used to, reactivated her gym membership, increased libido etc... Hell I've done a bit of that too in my own way. But a seemingly harmless FB exchange I saw today has me freaked out now. Why the f**k is she all of a sudden reconnecting with bf's from high school on FB??? This is the exchange I saw today...
> 
> HIM
> Belated happy b-day! I will always think of you as <maiden name>. Sarah found me on Facebook last year and now I'm reconnecting with long lost friends from hometown. Has there ever been a jr high reunion? If not we should do one. Do you live near xxx? I'm in yyy.
> ...


Dear ADL,

You know quite well that what your wife is doing is not "harmless flirting." She's looking to meet up with another guy, alone, and you also know what that probably means.

Here's the alpha male response to your situation (stated forcefully but calmly):

"Listen b*tch, I just saw your FB message to OP in which you said you think of him all the time and want to hook up with him. Pack your bags and get out, and don't come back until you're ready to get down on your knees and beg me to take you back."

Here's the beta male response (stated with trembling and likely tears in his eyes):

"Honey, I accidentally came across a FB message from your to OP. I'm really puzzled and concerned about it. I need you to explain this to me because it's made me really upset. You're not looking to have an affair or something, are you. Please tell me it's nothing. Oh, by the way, I wasn't spying on you; I would never do that. I just came across it by accident, like I said."

Then there's the super-beta male, the guy who frets over what he's discovered, wonders what to do about it, asks other for advice and, in the end, usually does nothing until it's too late.

Which do you want to be?



AlexDeLarge said:


> So I must say I'm really on the fence about this. My impetuous reaction is to say WTF are you doing to her and shut it down entirely. But at the same time I have to say that there are many things that I've done over the years that taken out of context, could be perceived wrong. I've harmlessly flirted sometimes, but it is more about giving yourself validation, and I had absolutely no intention on acting out on the innuendo. I could be making a bigger deal out of this than is really here. At the same time the phrase "think about you all the time" really sticks in my craw. She's very articulate and few words, either written or spoken, are said by her without a clear intent.
> 
> *Part of me wants to see how far this goes. I mean if she wants an affair, I want to know that. That would completely change my view of her and our marriage.* Why the h3ll am I making all these sacrifices for someone who isn't willing to do the same for me? I mean what guy doesn't want to shag every hot 23 year old they see.
> 
> One of the sacred things we have in our relationship is our pillow talk. At the end of the night with other couples, we'll joke about how petty they are to each other and how guys and girls keep secrets from each other but we share everything. Now I wonder if all of that is a sham and she is just another one of them...


As others have pointed out, you have a very naive view of female behavior. Just as every guy "want to shag every hot 23 year old they (sic) see," many (and probably most) females are open to having sex with a man other than her husband if he isn't giving her what she needs. It would appear that you aren't giving your wife what she needs.

As to your wanting "to see how far this goes," that's just crazy. It will go as far as you let it.



AlexDeLarge said:


> This has nothing to do with having balls to do it. I want to know how far she is willing to go! I mean do I really want to be with someone who would rather be ****ing someone else??? This has come as a total shock to me but now there is no way I can just drop it or pretend it was nothing. *If I confront her now, of course she'll end it. But I'll spend the rest of this marriage being suspicious. Once trust is violated, how do you ever earn that back? I'm not going to resort to installing a keylogger and monitoring every goddam thing she does. The marriage is over any way at that point. It's then just a piece a paper and a prison for someone who obviously would rather be elsewhere...*


Again, these are the ramblings of a man who doesn't understand female behavior and who has an overly optimistic view of male-female relationships. You _need_ to confront her. You _need_ to end it. You _need_ to have a degree of suspicion. Trust is not immutable and eternal; it has to be earned every day and, when it is broken, it needs to be restored. You restore trust by setting boundaries, monitoring those boundaries and taking forceful action if the boundaries are crossed. A necessary condition for the restoration of trust is the willingness to end the relationship if the wayward spouse does not reform his/her behavior.

In truth, marriage in the western world is "just a piece of paper" but it is not a prison, either party can leave at any time for any reason. If you're a normal guy, you want a marriage in which both you and your wife are fulfilled and neither wants to leave. The best way to find out if your wife is contemplating "leaving" your marriage (by way of an affair) is to confront her and give her a choice between going and staying. If you can't muster the courage to take the alpha male approach, at least let her know that you consider this serious enough to call for divorce if she cannot demonstrate that she is 100% committed to you. Look at some of the other threads here to see what this requires.

Then, start to figure out why she found it desirable to look to another man for fulfillment. Until you discover and fix _that_ problem, you're in for more marital angst down the road.

Best of luck.


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## 2asdf2 (Jun 5, 2012)

AlexDeLarge said:


> Are you saying there are healthy marriages where one spouse monitors everything the other one does???


I was not saying that. But now you mention it, there are multitude of healthy marriages where one spouse *has the ability to monitor* everything the other one does.

I was saying that your comment: *If I confront her now, of course she'll end it.* is not accurate. 

Perhaps your case will be different, but many WS do not end affairs in spite of confrontation. In many cases confrontation sends the affair underground instead.

How you confront has a lot to do with that, I think.


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## dogman (Jul 24, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> *I went through the exact same same thing 3 years ago*. You are in the early stages of this and you can stop it before there are any real consequences,* if you have the balls to do it.* When I discovered the e-mails between my wife and her ex-boyfriend from HS; first I copied them, then I deleted them from her e-mail. I then deleted his email address from her address book and I put a block on his mail address so no e-mails could get in from him or out to him. Then I blocked Facebook at the router (no access to Facebook for anyone in the house) and I waited for her to say something. When she did, I told her I found the e-mails (which were benign BTW) and I said that I didn't like her being in contact with an ex boyfriend without my knowing about it. Long story short, I told her if she wants to have a relationship, of any kind no matter how innocent with her old HS boyfriend, she has to leave; I had no plans to make it easy for another guy to hit on her. I also told her that when the kids ask me why they can't access Facebook, I will tell them it's because their mother is talking to other men on line. After a week, she agreed to my wishes.
> 
> There is no room for EX's in a marriage. A marriage is between two people, not three and I'm willing to bet that if you don't do something quickly, your wife will be fvcking this guy at some point in the not to distant future. *Don't be a jerk ... do something about this!*


Middleman...your my new hero.


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## Rob774 (Sep 27, 2010)

Update?


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## AlexDeLarge (Jan 28, 2012)

So this was the next exchange:

HIM
I saw *** once in 1997. She was waitressing at *** but we didn't talk. *** and I kept in touch until a few years ago. He's married, has a kid, and is a counselor for abused children and women. *** and I were close for years but my wife and her did not get along at all. There was a lot of tension there so its probably best I not reconnect with her ;-(.
I own an *** business - so I guess I kinda use my math skills a bit. Actually the most challenging part of my work is dealing with *** prima donna clients. I have some celebrity clients, some of them are bad, but not necessarily the worst.
We all had our 20 year recently Mine was in *** - we moved there when I was 16. I came back to *** for school. I've also lived in SF, Boston, and NY but always seem to keep coming back to ***. I've actually been married twice. I was madly in love with an Austrian girl I met when I was 23, but got married way too young and it didn't last. Thankfully no kids. I have two daughters (*** 5 and *** 2) with my present wife ***.

WIFE
I love the details! You sound happy!!!! I have 2 boys, we met first year in college , dated for 7 years (lots o' drama) and then got married and got pregnant after the first 6 mo. My husband sells *** and works for ***, so I am used to the jargon and get it a little... no celebrities in his field.
You moved around a Lot! My husband is from ***, and half *** , so we have different backgrounds and cultures and have traveled but like you said, hard to get out of ***.
I started working for *** and quit after I had the first baby, then self taught myself *** and realized I can make a business out of this. So I've been running a *** business for about 9 years, and it's been a lot of fun and brought me to many different places. My boys are much older than your girls. Almost 12, and 10, and their independence is hard for me but at the same time its fun to have more time on my hands. Bittersweet.
Do you remember *** ? He went to school w. us but I think he left in 8th... He went to highschool w. my husband and I think I saw him from a distance at the ***, didn't get a chance to say hi. I've also been trying to get a hold of ***, remember her sister too, ***. I've had no luck.... Let me know if you know anything about her, we were best friends for a couple years. Do you remember ***?? She's had a hard life...... I won't go into the dramatic details if you don't remember her. You need to post a picture of your girls/wife....

I don't see any flirting at all anymore. He actually seemed to steer away and even mentioned staying away from an ex on account of his wife disapproving. Good sign yeah? I've calmed down a bit but will continue to track their convo as I'm sure all it takes is one trigger. I'm still apprehensive but maybe this will blow over...


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

even if she isnt looking to start something up it is still highly recommended that you talk about boundaries and what you each find acceptable that the other does with the opposite sex. 

MANY affairs don't start with the intention of having an affair. They usually start under poor boundaries.


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## Rob774 (Sep 27, 2010)

AlexDeLarge said:


> So this was the next exchange:
> 
> HIM
> I saw *** once in 1997. She was waitressing at *** but we didn't talk. *** and I kept in touch until a few years ago. He's married, has a kid, and is a counselor for abused children and women. *** and I were close for years but my wife and her did not get along at all. There was a lot of tension there so its probably best I not reconnect with her ;-(.
> ...


I agree, this would make me feel a lot better. But you are not out of the woods yet. This casual, friendly banter... is usually how it starts. He doesn't send emails about getting into her pants the first week.

I would still openly discuss with her the importance about boundaries are. Just so that she knows where you stand. If she knows how you feel, and still is foolish enough to cross them, well...


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## ironman (Feb 6, 2013)

My 2 cents. I would put a stop to this crap. Spouses shouldn't be doing any kind of "catching up" with past lovers, IMO. Some people seem to be okay with that kind of stuff b/c they don't want to appear jealous/insecure ... and then you end up reading a lot of their stories here unfortunately.

It just strikes me as disrespectful to the spouse. They should know better .. and if they're that dense, then do your job as protective spouse and enlighten them!


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

AlexDeLarge said:


> HIM
> *** and I were close for years but my wife and her did not get along at all. There was a lot of tension there so its probably best I not reconnect with her ;-(.


 This is be a big red flag because it may indicate that his wife thought that he crossed boundaries with this other woman and demanded that he go no contact with her.



AlexDeLarge said:


> HIM
> I've actually been married twice. I was madly in love with an Austrian girl I met when I was 23, but got married way too young and it didn't last. Thankfully no kids. I have two daughters (*** 5 and *** 2) with my present wife ***.


 He was madly in love with his first wife, but tellingly says nothing positive about his “present wife”. 



AlexDeLarge said:


> WIFE
> I have 2 boys, we met first year in college , dated for 7 years (lots o' drama) and then got married and got pregnant after the first 6 mo. My husband sells *** and works for ***, so I am used to the jargon and get it a little... no celebrities in his field.
> 
> You moved around a Lot! My husband is from ***, and half *** , so we have different backgrounds and cultures and have traveled but like you said, hard to get out of ***.


 Notice that she say nothing positive about you and in fact says that there was “lots o’ drama” and then she got pregnant (i.e. trapped) soon after the wedding? One of the hallmarks of an emotional affair (EA) is that they confide about negative issues of their marital relationship with their affair partner (AP).



AlexDeLarge said:


> I don't see any flirting at all anymore. He actually seemed to steer away and even mentioned staying away from an ex on account of his wife disapproving. Good sign yeah? I've calmed down a bit but will continue to track their convo as I'm sure all it takes is one trigger. I'm still apprehensive but maybe this will blow over...


 I read it different than you. Secrecy, past issues by the other man with his wife about another women friend, your wife talking about the drama in your courtship of her with neither saying anything positive about their spouse, are all red flags. The heavy flirting will come later and there will be a later as neither indicated wrapping contact up.


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## dogman (Jul 24, 2012)

Read this again and stay alert!

They first start catching up, and it's all "How you been doing? What have you been up to?"

Then it would have morphed into talk about:

What they've been doing since they parted
Their significant others since they parted
Their families
Their favorite music, movies, etc.
Their spouses
You
Your job
How your job keeps you away
How lonely she gets when you're away
How she looks forward to their conversations all the time now
How she loves talking to him
How she gets "bored" talking to you
How you don't always listen
How you're not "perfect"
How you can be so insensitive sometimes
How she wonders if she would have stayed with him
How he understands her
How he knows how to make her feel good
How you fail at this
How you are such an a**hole
How she feels young again
How she hasn't felt this happy with you in so long
How he's a better man than you'll ever be
How she wants to see him again
How they can meet under the radar
How she's thought of leaving you
How she ever could have fallen for a jerk like you
How he's her soul mate
How she made a big mistake leaving him
How she made an even bigger mistake marrying you
How they were meant to be together...

...get the picture?


So far it fits this descriptive perfectly!


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## JustGrinding (Oct 26, 2012)

And the Kewpie doll goes to (drum roll, please):

TRy!

What is not being said in that conversation is written in bold underline. TRy nailed it.

The compartmentalization is in full effect already. What's going on is a danger to your marriage, Alex.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Rob774 said:


> I agree, this would make me feel a lot better. But you are not out of the woods yet. This casual, friendly banter... is usually how it starts. He doesn't send emails about getting into her pants the first week.
> 
> I would still openly discuss with her the importance about boundaries are. Just so that she knows where you stand. If she knows how you feel, and still is foolish enough to cross them, well...



In total agreement! But once the banter starts from either of them regarding subject matters such as personal feelings of a quasi-romantic nature about themselves, inclusive of flirting with each other, or negative ones about their spouses, and even the conveying of "plans to meet up because I'll be in the area," then that's where you need to greatly watch out.

But mind you, telling her about boundaries right now could very well steer her communication with him, and vice-versa, much further underground, either by other venues such as texting, cell phone, private email account, et. al., provided that it isn't there already.

You should greatly continue to adhere to the mantra, *"trust, but verify!"*


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

I want to make sure, did your wife tell you about this reconnection?


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## Paulination (Feb 6, 2012)

If you want to be absolutely sure your wife will never cheat on you just lock her in a cage and deprive her of any connection to the outside world. No phone, no internet, no TV etc....

I'm being dramatic but come on, looks totally innocent at this point. I saw some bantering between my wife and a couple of guys on FB related to a local sports franchise that my wife is into and I brought it up here. Before I was done you guys had me convinced she was cheating and I started going nuts. 

I got the keylogger, monitored phone and text records and spied her email. I was a paranoid mess and I drove her further away by my now paranoid obsession. 

End result, not a damn thing. Soccer season ended and all communication ceased. The only thing I saw close to a concern was a guy try to bait her into an inappropriate conversation but she shot that down immediately and blocked him from her page.

I finally decided to just trust my wife the same way she trusts me to go to work every day and not bang the receptionist. I have appointments all of the time and she never questions my activities. Yet here I was putting her under a microscope. So, I decided to just trust her and ended all snooping. I have told her that infidelity is a one strike and your out proposition so if it happens, than thats that. We are much happier today.

In the fairness of full disclosure:

This site has been very helpful. The advice here is solid and my snooping did uncover a couple of things not related to infidelity that I needed to deal with.

I'm just saying that you should educate yourself with the forum to learn all of the various patterns of cheaters and then use your best judgement what fits in regards to your situation.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

I still say keep your tools in place. HE seems less interested than she does.


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## Sennik (Feb 15, 2011)

AlexDeLarge said:


> So this was the next exchange:
> 
> WIFE
> I love the details! You sound happy!!!! I have 2 boys, we met first year in college , dated for 7 years (lots o' drama)QUOTE]
> ...


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## DavidWYoung (Feb 3, 2012)

I think "MiddleMan" is right. Your wife is either WITH the MARRIAGE or AGAINST the MARRIAGE. There is no middle ground.


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## BWBill (Jan 30, 2013)

I have looked up old acquaintances on the internet; it’s not necessarily bad. I would suggest that for dinner conversation tell her that you had an email from an old friend (male) and that it was interesting to see what he was up to. See if she brings up her own conversations. 

*“So I will preface this by saying I am not the paranoid type, but I noticed all the signs of serious MLC with my wife these days. She recently turned 40 and is dressing 15 years younger than she used to, reactivated her gym membership, increased libido etc... Hell I've done a bit of that too in my own way.”* Do more than a bit. Let her think about you having a MLC.

I think it’s too early to confront. Use your monitoring intelligence to try to get her to change course on her own. You do not lose the ability to confront at the right time.


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## AlexDeLarge (Jan 28, 2012)

Paulination said:


> If you want to be absolutely sure your wife will never cheat on you just lock her in a cage and deprive her of any connection to the outside world. No phone, no internet, no TV etc....
> 
> I'm being dramatic but come on, looks totally innocent at this point. I saw some bantering between my wife and a couple of guys on FB related to a local sports franchise that my wife is into and I brought it up here. Before I was done you guys had me convinced she was cheating and I started going nuts.
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

Thanks for the reality check. Truth is most people who were in my situation probably had spouses who didn't cheat. By in large, you'd only stay on this site if they did cheat. There's been some great advice here but alot of it breeds unnecessary paranoia.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

AlexDeLarge said:


> There's been some great advice here but alot of it breeds *unnecessary paranoia.*


If this paranoia is so unnecessary, then just what brings you here?

The free cookies?


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## AlexDeLarge (Jan 28, 2012)

3putt said:


> If this paranoia is so unnecessary, then just what brings you here?
> 
> The free cookies?


Uh, the great advice. I already said that.


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

3putt said:


> The free cookies?


They are good cookies


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

AlexDeLarge said:


> Thanks for the reality check. Truth is most people who were in my situation probably had spouses who didn't cheat. By in large, you'd only stay on this site if they did cheat. There's been some great advice here but alot of it breeds unnecessary paranoia.


 If you read Paulination story, he had a right to be paranoid about his wife as she was in fact hiding something important from him that he only discovered because of things that he learned on this site. She told him that she was unhappy and had secretly been hiding a large amount of money from him. 

I also want to point out that us pointing out red flags is not the same as saying that she is in fact cheating right now. What we are saying is that it could be heading that way. The dilemma with emotinal affairs (EA) is that if you wait for it to cross the line to confront, it is often too late as by then they are in the fog.

Addressing your case specifically, count the number of positive things that your wife says about the other man (OM) to the OM (many), and compare this to the number of positive things that she says about you to this OM (zero). What message does this send to the OM? Although it has not come close to crossing over to being called an EA at this time, it is not a healthy situation.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

AlexDeLarge said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:
> 
> Thanks for the reality check. Truth is most people who were in my situation probably had spouses who didn't cheat. By in large, you'd only stay on this site if they did cheat. There's been some great advice here but alot of it breeds unnecessary paranoia.


Alex,

What do you think appropriate marital boundaries should be? Should you and your wife be allowed to talk to ex boyfriends/girlfriends? Should you each be allowed to talk to ex lovers? Have you had this conversation with your wife? If not, why not?


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## Ever-Man (Jan 25, 2013)

AlexDeLarge said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:
> 
> Thanks for the reality check. Truth is most people who were in my situation probably had spouses who didn't cheat. By in large, you'd only stay on this site if they did cheat. There's been some great advice here but alot of it breeds unnecessary paranoia.


THis is my impression about this site too: it can cause paranoia if you let it. There are many posters who will assume the worst regarding any situation, and hammer you over the head with it, and dictate a cause of action that could be extreme relative to your situation. 

You are in search of the "truth", and until you know what it is, only respond to what you know, not the worst of what your imagination can conjure. 

I am in a situation where I have suspicians about my wife as well, there is circumstantial evidence, but the hard evidence is scant. 

Since my X-wife was a cheater, and completely screwed me, it is easy for my suspicians to run rampant, but it could all be in my head, all made up, and my emotional turmoil a waste of time and destructive on to my marriage. 

In the end, you need hard evidence.


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## Paulination (Feb 6, 2012)

TRy said:


> If you read Paulination story, he had a right to be paranoid about his wife as she was in fact hiding something important from him that he only discovered because of things that he learned on this site. She told him that she was unhappy and had secretly been hiding a large amount of money from him.


There were some red flags but in the end it was not a EA or PA. I fixated on that and spent more time than necessary trying to prevent or find out about another man that didn't exist instead of focusing on the real issues. Spent 3 months on that I believe. Once I let it go we hit up some MC and things have been well since.

The money thing is what I was referring to when I said " I found some things I needed to deal with"

Don't get me wrong, this forum is great. I have learned SO MUCH about relationships, infidelity, sex etc... I feel I am so much better prepared to maintain a meaningful marriage than ever before.

The other thing I learned is that even though 80% of the people here say its an affair, it may not be an affair so don't just treat it as such.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

AlexDeLarge said:


> Uh, the great advice. I already said that.


You did, but at the same time you negated or undermined that "great advice" by stating that a lot of it breeds unnecessary paranoia.

Having seen what I've seen through the years on these boards, discounting or ignoring what you are being told as unnecessary paranoia is exactly how a lot of people wind on these boards to begin with, but with much bigger problems than you seem to have.....at the moment anyway.

You need to nip this now. We're all wired for an affair. It's been my experience that the ones that get themselves into these situations are usually the ones that convince themselves that they could never cheat on their spouse. This is where lack of boundaries come into play, as your wife is exhibiting right now. These conversations she's having with a former lover are completely unacceptable for a married woman. I wonder if she would approve if the shoe were on the other foot?

I understand where you are coming from, wanting to see just how far she will take it, but is that really needed? IMO, what is really needed right now is an honest conversation with her about how this bothered you enough to seek outside advice. It serves no purpose to see how far she goes. What if she goes too far before you actually realize it? What if she realizes what she's doing is wrong, but goes underground to minimize your chances of accidentally finding out...just out of pure instinct? I really could go on and on, but I hope you understand what I'm trying to say here.

There are way too many bad things that can happen here by keeping your mouth shut, and way too many good if you don't.

Why take that chance?


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## ironman (Feb 6, 2013)

3putt makes a good argument for taking action Alex. I think you should follow his advice and "nip this in the bud" as they say. I understand the covert "integrity test" you're trying to apply to your wife, but you need to understand that anybody can cheat given the right circumstances.

If you think you're going to replace your wife upon her failure of your "test" with someone incapable of cheating then you're being unrealistic. Define your boundaries and protect your marriage.

As far as "paranoia" ... there are a lot of bad people out there. Martial/divorce statistics bear this out. Don't become one of them if you don't have to.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Alex: I can only say that I totally envy you, in that your situation, for all intents and purposes, has not yielded the sordid dividends that so many others of us has. And I for one am hopeful that for you, it never will. Although we have done our very best from our own personal experiences to alert you to those "red flags," you will no doubt notice that a lot of us TAM'ers, indeed, wear our heart's out on our sleeves, because unlike you, we've often had that heart ripped out of our very being by those that we loved beyond measure, and in so doing, they callously and wantonly stomped on it, in the midst of our very presence!

You came here much like the vast majority of us originally did, as a searching ground for answers~answers that might spell some validity, and perhaps relief, in our own individual situations. 

TAM is a two way street, in that a lot of times, the answers that we convey to those seeking them tend to be just as therapeutic as those that we receive.

If your situation does not merit your having to move into further investigative modes and you are truly satisfied with your W's responses, then please give thanks to God that there was no inherent deception on her part.

But by the same token, know that the vast majority of us who have offered you our heartfelt advice, only wish that our own individual situations could have yielded a more positive outcome!


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Paulination said:


> There were some red flags but in the end it was not a EA or PA. I fixated on that and spent more time than necessary trying to prevent or find out about another man that didn't exist instead of focusing on the real issues. Spent 3 months on that I believe. Once I let it go we hit up some MC and things have been well since.
> 
> The money thing is what I was referring to when I said " I found some things I needed to deal with".


 Your gut told you that something was wrong and your gut was right. There was something wrong, but it was money instead of another man. Hiding money indicates, a lack of trust by her in the marriage, dishonesty by her, not thinking in terms of "us" but in terms of "me", and it better allows her to be able to leave the marraige, all of the same things that an affair indicates.

One more thing, studies show that 80% of affairs go undetected by the other spouse even when activity had them suspicious. Following advice on this board reduces that number but does not eliminate it.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

3putt said:


> You did, but at the same time you negated or undermined that "great advice" by stating that a lot of it breeds unnecessary paranoia.
> 
> Having seen what I've seen through the years on these boards, discounting or ignoring what you are being told as unnecessary paranoia is exactly how a lot of people wind on these boards to begin with, but with much bigger problems than you seem to have.....at the moment anyway.
> 
> ...


:iagree:Just do a little monitoring VAR in the car and a keylogger if there is nothing there after that fine! But your gut and the red flags tell you otherwise right?


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Ever-Man said:


> THis is my impression about this site too: it can cause paranoia if you let it. There are many posters who will assume the worst regarding any situation, and hammer you over the head with it, and dictate a cause of action that could be extreme relative to your situation.
> 
> You are in search of the "truth", and until you know what it is, only respond to what you know, not the worst of what your imagination can conjure.
> 
> ...


You come to a sight like TAM and you post some details of a situation. You came her for a reason. This is not called knitting and crocheting for dummies. You don't go to a gym to bake cookies. You don't go to a seafood restaurant and order a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. You came to a sight and posted on the section called COPING WITH INFIDELITY and you wonder why people suggest infidelity is present? Especially when there are indeed red flags. Do you realize how many posters before you said this exact same thing and came back months later saying that the TAM regulars were right and he/she was cheating?


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

bfree said:


> Do you realize how many posters before you said this exact same thing and came back months later saying that the TAM regulars were right and he/she was cheating?


Way too fvcking many.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

TAM Regulars, can we point AlexDeLarge to some threads where husbands didn't take enough action or no action and their wives "harmless relationships" turned into full blown PA's. There have to be hundreds of them.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> TAM Regulars, can we point AlexDeLarge to some threads where husbands didn't take enough action or no action and their wives "harmless relationships" turned into full blown PA's. There have to be hundreds of them.


Geez where to start?


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

TRy said:


> Your gut told you that something was wrong and your gut was right. There was something wrong, but it was money instead of another man. Hiding money indicates, a lack of trust by her in the marriage, dishonesty by her, not thinking in terms of "us" but in terms of "me", and it better allows her to be able to leave the marraige, all of the same things that an affair indicates.
> 
> *One more thing, studies show that 80% of affairs go undetected by the other spouse even when activity had them suspicious.* Following advice on this board reduces that number but does not eliminate it.



To that end, you can richly label me as one of those in the midst of that *80% threshold*! I truly would have loved to have been able to have had knowledge about my STBXW's trysts greatly at the time of their occurence!

But then again, that might well be my own fault for just being too much of a trusting dupe!


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

How about the tragic one happening with Thorburn right now where he was in R and most TAM regulars warned him that his wife was not remorseful. Too sad.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Just grabbed this one for the heck of it.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/10761-need-advice-soon-4.html


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

bfree said:


> How about the tragic one happening with Thorburn right now where he was in R and most TAM regulars warned him that his wife was not remorseful. Too sad.


Terrible story but good example


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

And another

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/54646-help-me-save-my-marriage-9.html


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

and yet another

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/28389-never-thought-i-would-posting-here-3.html


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Point is. This stuff isn't new. Its been going on as long as men and women have been in relationships. There is a pattern and people who have been through it can see this pattern. Ever see the movie The Matrix? Remember how those that viewed the Matrix code eventually didn't see the code but only saw the end result. That's what TAM regulars do. We see through the code and are able to view the end result. Is it perfect? No. But more often than not TAM is correct.


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## jfv (May 29, 2012)

Keep monitoring, it won't cost you much but it can save you tons if things go sideways. 

Have a discussion about transparency

Have the boundary discussion about ex's and opposite sex friends.

These relationships can build into something over time if they go unchecked. Even if it isn't with him she shouldn't be comfortable emailing and setting up meetings with men without your knowledge or oversight. Very bad habit to pick up. Stop it before it starts. 

Good luck.


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## Rob774 (Sep 27, 2010)

bfree said:


> Just grabbed this one for the heck of it.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/10761-need-advice-soon-4.html


Okay, i think that was the most disturbing thread i've ever read.

Cliffnotes version for others who haven't read: OP is having a stale marriage, can't even get a kiss with his wife. She starts walking with a neighbor at night. He discovers they have a passionate kiss. He STILL allows her to walk with him. Eventually mans up to confront her, yet she still walks with her. Finally he comes home early and prevents an near full blown PA.

I tried my best to not respond, knowing that it would of bumped a 3 YO thread. But i question if Russ was real or not. No way, a man could be that naive about what was going on right in front of him.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Rob774 said:


> I tried my best to not respond, knowing that it would of bumped a 3 YO thread. But i question if Russ was real or not. *No way, a man could be that naive about what was going on right in front of him*.


Ya think? If even half the situations posted here are phoney, that still leaves tons of naive (if not stupid) guys posting here. Never underestimate what your fellow man is capable (or should I say not capable) of.

I got a gut feeling that this is not over for Alex by a long shot and he is going to shed a ton of tears and wished he had listened to us.


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

bfree said:


> Do you realize how many posters before you said this exact same thing and came back *months *later saying that the TAM regulars were right and he/she was cheating?


If they follow the advice, many find out in less than a week.


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