# I really Need Help



## blahtobling (Jan 2, 2012)

I have been married to my husband for 4 years going on 5 now... I love him dearly and just can not see myself without him. We have had some very hard times and have over come some odds I never dreamnt of over coming. There has been betrayl and lies in much of our realationship, due to the fact that that is all my husband has ever known... I left my husband on two occasions and one I completly left (took everything I owned and my daughters and moved out) we were only apart for two weeks this break up and talked about some things and thougth we had things worked out... My husband got a promotion at work and now he is not busy all day like he used to be and seems to be thinking alot about all the crap that we had been thru in the past. It makes me sad and angry that he constantly brings up past crap and throws it in my face. He was the one who betrayed me... but yet I have forgiven him for that and gone on. He just can't let go of anything. So this brings me to last night. My mother which he HATES sent him a card. I opened it and read it and hoped he would do the same but he didnt he wanted me to take the card back to my mother (whom I hardly see at all now because he hates her and the rest of my family) I couldn't bring myself to do that so I left it in my car... when he asked if I had done what he asked of me I said no.. He blew up cursing me telling me I didn't do what he asked that I made my decision to help him make his decision. Which he threatens for me to pack my crap every time we get in a little disaggrement. He says he loves me but very seldom can he look me in the eye and tell me he loves me... He is wonderful the most wonderful thing at times buying me lavish gifts and breast augmentation... but then he blows up like this and calls me stupid and tells me to f off... he can be sssssssssoooooooooo hateful at times and I don't understand it... We have a very healthy sex life... we laugh together... I wait on him hand and foot... he is spoiled by me and at times I am spoiled by him. We both have major trust issues.. I always check his phone and he does the same and the computer I check and he checks my email... I want this to stop and I want us to have a good healthy realationship, but don't know what to do to keep from the fighting and hurt...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

It does sound like the two of you have a lot off issues. Have you considered marriage counseling? If your husband will not go with you, then I suggest you go alone. If one spouses changes, the other has to change. It’s a given.
From what you have said, your husband sounds verbally abusive and angry. There are things you can do to at least limit and/or stop his angry out bursts. I’ll share a technique I learned from the book “The Dance of Anger”. 

You should never engage in an angry argument with your husband, they are not productive. So stop them as soon as he starts one.
When your husband starts one of his out bursts, put your hand up in the ‘stop’ jesture and say the word ‘STOP’ firmly. If he keeps coming at you in anger repeat this a few time. Tell him: “I’m will not engage this way. I’m going to the bedroom to give you the space so you can calm yourself down.” Of course it could be the bedroom, the living room, for a walk, etc. Whatever works for you. Take your children with you so that they are a exposed to the anger.

The ‘stop’ reaction needs to be automatic. To make it automatic practice it in front of a mirror. Imagine your husband going into an angry tirade. The do the stop routine… the ‘stop’ gesture. Say the word STOP. Repeat that you are going somewhere quite with the children. Practice this until it’s automatic.

It’s also good to tell your husband that you are going to do this and why. That angry outbursts are hurting your marriage. That the two of you need to learn to discuss things as adults, without anger. That words spoken in angry outbursts are usually the worst, ugliest things said and they cut deep… so you both need to avoid saying those things.
Another thing that you both need to learn is that there is a cycle of abuse and anger. The outburst happens. Then the person apologizes and goes into the ‘nice’ phase where they are sweet, buy gifts , etc all to make up for being the outburst. But as time goes on the tension builds and another outburst happens. Then they are nice again.. and so the cycle goes.

One of the main reasons for the cycle is that the angry (or abusive) person does not manage their own emotions well. Instead of having healthy outlets they let the anger grow until it explodes. Another reason is that the outbursts themselves cause a lot of calming brain chemicals to be released. So the abuser is self-medicating with the outbursts. The key is for people to learn to manage their anger in a much healthier way. And to learn to never have an angry outburst.
One of the best ways to manage anger is through exercise. Talk to your husband about him going on a walk, a bike ride, a run.. .whatever he can do when he feels angry. My ex had a huge problem with angry outbursts. After a lot of work on this he learned to even out his emotions with bike rides. When he was getting angry and was ready to explode he would go on a long bike ride. The brain chemicals that are released during exercise are the same ones released during an angry outburst. So he returned an much calmer person and we could then talk about our issues. We did get to the point where there were no more angry outbursts. 

[Just to let you know… we divorced because he constantly cheated.]


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## blahtobling (Jan 2, 2012)

Thank you for the helpful words... I have gone to marriage counseling by myself and he will not partake... I have changed TREMENDOUSLY... altough he says people can't change... I quite smoking and drinking... I am not at all the person I used to be... I am totally different almost to the point that people that once knew me dont' even know me anymore... He will not take any kind of medication because he does not think anything is wrong with him... I am the one that causes everything to happen... I am the one he is mad at because of my actions... He never apoliogizes just to clarify that... I always am saying I'm sorry... he NEVER does... He does work out and it doesn't seem to help... We are adults he is 42 and I am 30... but you are right there is nothing adult about how either one of us handles things... I still don't know what to do...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

When a person does not let go of things there usually two possible reasons:
1)	They have not resolved the issues… for example he is still hurt by your leaving and is still not sure you would not do it again. 

-- Or --

2)	He gets something that is valuable to him by holding on to the issues. For example if he’s using them to beat up on you emotionally, then on some level he views the issues as something that gives him a lot of power over you. He can bring them out when he feels he is powerless and yell at you, belittle you, etc. Now he feels powerful again and in control. It’s also good fodder for the angry outbursts that get his brain chemistry fix for him. He has to have an excuse for his anger outbursts as even he understands that just stomping his feet like a 2 year old would only make him look… well like a 2 year old. So he needs something to ***** about… and those issues are the kind that he feels make him look justified.

You need to find a way to take away the benefit gets from him using these issues as justification for his outbursts. Tantrums (yes he’s having tantrums just like a 2 year old) need an audience. You might have noticed this with your kids. When my son was in his terrible 2’s he threw a lot of tantrums. I was advised to not pay any attention to his tantrums and to just leave the room. I would just tell him that since he was having a tantrum I would leave him to himself so he could calm himself down. As soon as I left the room, when he no longer hand an audience, he would stop his tantrum. I’d leave him there for about 10 minutes. And then it was as though the tantrum never happened. But sometimes he would stop his tantrum, go to the room I was in, and restart his tantrum… After all what’s the fun of a tantrum without an audience?

You might want to tell your husband at a time when he’s calm that you have both done hurtful things. That you have forgiven him for his transgressions and you expect him to do so about yours. That you cannot move forward in your relationship if this cannot happen. So he needs to let you know if he cannot forgive you in the same manner because you will not stay in a marriage where you are constantly being beat up emotionally by the man who you have forgiven for his own transgressions. 

Tell him that you will no longer listen to his rants about everything you have done in the past. Tell him that you will use the stop technique and go somewhere to leave him to his own anger and to calm himself down. Then tell him that the ONLY place you will discuss the past hurtful things with him is with a marriage counselor because neither of you know how to calmly discuss these things and come to a point of forgiveness and you both need the help.

As for the thing about your family and your mother, what have they done to him to make him hate them? It sounds to me like he is just doing things to end your relationship with your family so that you have no support system. Abusers do this to give him more control over their victims. What you have said about this really worries me for your situation. Tell him that if he wants to be mean and rude to your mother that he needs to do it himself; that you will not hurt her like that. I would also tell him that you expect him to treat your family with respect and that you are going to start spending time with them… period.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

blahtobling said:


> Thank you for the helpful words... I have gone to marriage counseling by myself and he will not partake... I have changed TREMENDOUSLY... altough he says people can't change... I quite smoking and drinking... I am not at all the person I used to be... I am totally different almost to the point that people that once knew me dont' even know me anymore... He will not take any kind of medication because he does not think anything is wrong with him... I am the one that causes everything to happen... I am the one he is mad at because of my actions... He never apoliogizes just to clarify that... I always am saying I'm sorry... he NEVER does... He does work out and it doesn't seem to help... We are adults he is 42 and I am 30... but you are right there is nothing adult about how either one of us handles things... I still don't know what to do...


You need to realize that I only have a short bit that you have written to go by. I might have read somethings into it. So let me get some clarification….
I’m glad to hear that you have gone to counseling and have made good changes in yourself. If you could answer the below questions then we could have more clarification.

When your husband yells at you, how do you respond? Do you feel that you need to justify, clarify, or protect yourself and thus engage him in the argument?

Do you start arguments with him?


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## blahtobling (Jan 2, 2012)

Yes indeed... a strong woman I once was that would have told any man to go f himself if he didn't like something I did or said... I would have never put up with the crap that he gives me in the past... This is my 3rd marriage.. and I am only 30... I refuse to go thru another divorce... I will fight tooth and nail to build this realtionship back up to where it once was... We were happy and loving once upon a time... he hates my family because they have done things butting in to our realationship(which was my fault for allowing it) and my mother is very religious and he is not... I seriously feel like sometimes he has demons... I am not scared of him at all... he just hurts my feelings really really bad sometimes... I love him so much it is not even funny... I can not see myself living without him... I want this to work out so badly just don't know how much more I can take... I want the respect and love I deserve from him... I try to talk to him and it is always just me... he is perfect in his eyes and very head strong... I don't see that changing either...


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## blahtobling (Jan 2, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> You need to realize that I only have a short bit that you have written to go by. I might have read somethings into it. So let me get some clarification….
> I’m glad to hear that you have gone to counseling and have made good changes in yourself. If you could answer the below questions then we could have more clarification.
> 
> When your husband yells at you, how do you respond? Do you feel that you need to justify, clarify, or protect yourself and thus engage him in the argument?
> ...


I do not try to start arguments!!! I hate fighting!!! He engages and I do respond and blow up as well... I feel like if I don't defend the issue or myself and just ignore him so he doesn't blow up that he will think it is an admission of guilt upon my part...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

blahtobling said:


> I do not try to start arguments!!! I hate fighting!!! He engages and I do respond and blow up as well... I feel like if I don't defend the issue or myself and just ignore him so he doesn't blow up that he will think it is an admission of guilt upon my part...


You have by your own admissions already made great changes in yourself. This is promising as you obviously have the capability and desire to make more good changes. 
Ok this is what I was talking about. You have to stop your own engaging in the arguments that he starts. You do not have to defend yourself in the argument. It takes two to argue. So stop your part in it. 

I would suggest that you write him a letter since discussing things with him is difficult. Tell him that you will no longer engage in arguments, yelling, etc. That you will engage in discussions… but not angry arguments. Tell him that you will in the future tell him to stop and remove yourself from his presence when he comes at you in anger. That you expect him to calm himself down on his own. Tell him that your refusal to engage in these angry arguments is not an admission of guilt on your part. It’s simply your refusal to engage in an angry argument.

If you would like help in writing a letter to him, you could get help in doing that here.

This is how you stop the angry arguments, you refuse to be a party to them. If you don’t do this, the anger and arguments will continue.


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## blahtobling (Jan 2, 2012)

Thank you for the help... I will indeed put this to use... I will don anything to make the ugly behavior stop...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I hope it does help. I've been through similar things.. to include moving out, taking our son with me, and taking all of my things out of the house (which was about everything we had).

There were angry outbursts before and after that move out. I moved out because I found letters between my husband and an affair partner. It was the first affair of his I knew about.

I too felt that I had to protect myself so I argued back for a long time. The arguments stopped once I stopped my part in them.

You might want to read the book "The Dance of Anger: A Woman's Guide to Changing the Patterns of Intimate Relationships". It's a classic that would help you improve your marriage. 

Amazon.com: The Dance of Anger: A Woman's Guide to Changing the Patterns of Intimate Relationships (9780060915650): Harriet Lerner: Books


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## blahtobling (Jan 2, 2012)

I am so sorry for what you had to go thru... I will def look into the book...kind of hard to read something like that around him... and that is pretty much the only time I have to read... But I will Try... Thanks for your words of wisdom... I already feel better..


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

blahtobling said:


> I am so sorry for what you had to go thru... I will def look into the book...kind of hard to read something like that around him... and that is pretty much the only time I have to read... But I will Try... Thanks for your words of wisdom... I already feel better..


If you have to read the book around him, tell him your are reading it to help fix yourself. He's more likely to accept it. 

Or develop a bathroom problem and read it in there. I've read a lot of books that way. :smthumbup:

Do you work outside the home?


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## blahtobling (Jan 2, 2012)

LOL sounds good... Yes I do but I have no time to read and I actually don't have time to be on here but I was at wits end and needed help fast...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

blahtobling said:


> LOL sounds good... Yes I do but I have no time to read and I actually don't have time to be on here but I was at wits end and needed help fast...


I know how this goes. I was thinking to read on your lunch and bathroom breaks at work ... privcy can be a hard thing.


I know what you mean about not enough time. I took today off work just to have time to stop and think about my problems. I had a holiday break but could not get any time for myself.


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## blahtobling (Jan 2, 2012)

Wish I could have taken the day off to... would have been at home with my husband though and prob would not have been good...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

blahtobling said:


> Wish I could have taken the day off to... would have been at home with my husband though and prob would not have been good...


Sounds like right now it would not have been good.

My husband is home today as well. Well he's always home as he does not work. This is probably our biggest problem. But at least he's not on the computer for a change and is actually doing things in the yard... some them like cleaning out the gazebo have needed to be done for over a year now. So I suppose it’s a good day when he’s not playing computer games.

I agree with you about divorce. It's not all it's cracked up to be. Sometimes we just trade one set of problems for another... especially when we enter a new relationship.

Though now that all of our children are grown.. being single does have it's appeal.


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## accept (Dec 1, 2011)

You have told us about yourself that this is your third time. Your h is a lot older than you. What about him. 
I would suggest leave your family out of it. If he hates them so be it. You first have to organize yourself. You dont say if they are his daughters as well and how he gets on with them.
You have also to stop these trust issues. 
I never believe in threatening that also has to stop.


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## blahtobling (Jan 2, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Sounds like right now it would not have been good.
> 
> My husband is home today as well. Well he's always home as he does not work. This is probably our biggest problem. But at least he's not on the computer for a change and is actually doing things in the yard... some them like cleaning out the gazebo have needed to be done for over a year now. So I suppose it’s a good day when he’s not playing computer games.
> 
> ...


I do hope things turn around for you as well... Good Luck... Sounds like your hands are full as well... there are good things about computers but mostly Ithink they are crap... gateways to porn, infidelity, and smuck... I know people say you can get all that without a computer but its just so easily accessible thru the computer..


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## blahtobling (Jan 2, 2012)

accept said:


> You have told us about yourself that this is your third time. Your h is a lot older than you. What about him.
> I would suggest leave your family out of it. If he hates them so be it. You first have to organize yourself. You dont say if they are his daughters as well and how he gets on with them.
> You have also to stop these trust issues.
> I never believe in threatening that also has to stop.


My husband has only been married one other time... which up until just recently they had a daily realationship still that he put her before me... They would talk almost on a daily basis.. and he said he pretty much did it to be spiteful to me since I said he wasn't going to talk to her... I am going to leave my family out of it and told my mother to just give up on him... just act as if he was dead to her... Because when she pushes he gets pissed... we do not have any children together only my one daughter lives at home with us full time... he has two boys which whom both still live with their mother... and i have another daughter that I see every other weekend... Thanks to the ex... he lied to me about the divorce papers and what his intentions where... and I don't have the resources to get her back full time or I would..


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## accept (Dec 1, 2011)

This sounds very complicated. Your h doesnt work do you. He still contacts daily his ex most likely the same age group as him. I suppose he doesnt talk to you much since he has his ex to do that.
You dont have children together. It sounds like he is using you.
Are you really on the same wave length.
I know its hard for you being the third time. Why did you go for someone so much older than you.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

blahtobling said:


> My husband has only been married one other time... which up until just recently they had a daily realationship still that he put her before me... They would talk almost on a daily basis.. and he said he pretty much did it to be spiteful to me since I said he wasn't going to talk to her... I am going to leave my family out of it and told my mother to just give up on him... just act as if he was dead to her... Because when she pushes he gets pissed... we do not have any children together only my one daughter lives at home with us full time... he has two boys which whom both still live with their mother... and i have another daughter that I see every other weekend... Thanks to the ex... he lied to me about the divorce papers and what his intentions where... and I don't have the resources to get her back full time or I would..


How old are all these children (yours and his)?

With the new info about your family interfering it sounds like you are handling that wisely.

About his contact with his ex.. you are right, he should limit his relationship with her out of respect for you. The fact that he has used it was a way to get at you is very immature on his part. He apparently does not understand that his wife has to come first, before all other people.


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## blahtobling (Jan 2, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> How old are all these children (yours and his)?
> 
> With the new info about your family interfering it sounds like you are handling that wisely.
> 
> About his contact with his ex.. you are right, he should limit his relationship with her out of respect for you. The fact that he has used it was a way to get at you is very immature on his part. He apparently does not understand that his wife has to come first, before all other people.


Mine are 7 and 9 his are 18 and 15.. yes I would one day like to think that I am the first person in his life as he is in mine... even before my children...But I'm unsure as to if that will ever happen or not


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## blahtobling (Jan 2, 2012)

blahtobling said:


> Mine are 7 and 9 his are 18 and 15.. yes I would one day like to think that I am the first person in his life as he is in mine... even before my children...But I'm unsure as to if that will ever happen or not


I cut off my ex...because he thougth that there was something going on between he and I (WHICH THAT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN IN A MILLION YEARS!!!!!) which has rendered my connection with my daughter... but he doesn't see that... but that is what I was willing to do for him...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

blahtobling said:


> I cut off my ex...because he thougth that there was something going on between he and I (WHICH THAT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN IN A MILLION YEARS!!!!!) which has rendered my connection with my daughter... but he doesn't see that... but that is what I was willing to do for him...


Some time ago I complained to a counselor about disrespect from my husband. She told me that my main problem is that I was acting like his girlfriend and not his wife. A girlfriend is a visitor in her boyfriend’s home so she holds back a lot of demands. A wife is the Queen of her home and makes her demands and expects them to be followed.

Take a look at your behaviors… are you being a girlfriend. When he plays games with is ex to get your goat… how would the Queen behave vs the girlfriend?


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## blahtobling (Jan 2, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Some time ago I complained to a counselor about disrespect from my husband. She told me that my main problem is that I was acting like his girlfriend and not his wife. A girlfriend is a visitor in her boyfriend’s home so she holds back a lot of demands. A wife is the Queen of her home and makes her demands and expects them to be followed.
> 
> Take a look at your behaviors… are you being a girlfriend. When he plays games with is ex to get your goat… how would the Queen behave vs the girlfriend?


I am very passive with him... which is why i know that he pushes me around(so to speak) with being controlling... but everytime I stand up to him he tells me to pack my Crap and get out... so I am torn


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

blahtobling said:


> I am very passive with him... which is why i know that he pushes me around(so to speak) with being controlling... but everytime I stand up to him he tells me to pack my Crap and get out... so I am torn


Before he will respect you, you have to respect and care enough for youself to be willing to lose him if he does not respect you and meet your needs.

Why are you torn about him telling you to pack and leave? He cannot kick you out of the house. He has no legal or moral basis to do this. You are the Queen of your home, your castle.. he cannot kick you out. If he gets abusive, call 911 

When he tells you to leave, tell him that you are not going anywhere. That if he wants to leave he can pack and leave. If he stays he WILL treat you with respect. Those are his choices.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Bling, welcome to the TAM forum. You are very fortunate to have attracted the attention of EleGirl, who has given you excellent advice on how to build stronger personal boundaries. Such boundaries are especially important because the behavioral traits you describe -- verbal abuse, temper tantrums, inappropriate anger, lack of impulse control, constant blaming, always being "the victim," black-white thinking, and a cycle of push-you-away and pull-you-back -- are classic traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder), which my exW suffers from. 

Significantly, only a professional can determine whether those traits are so severe as to satisfy all of the diagnostic criteria for having full blown BPD. This does not imply, however, that you cannot spot the red flags (i.e., strong occurrences of traits) in a man you've been living with for nearly five years. Red flags are easy to spot because there is nothing subtle or nuanced about behavior such as verbal abuse, temper tantrums, and constant blaming. 


> He can be ssssssoooo hateful at times and I don't understand it...


If your H is a BPDer (i.e., has strong BPD traits) he has enormous anger just under the surface, carried from early childhood. Because the anger is already there, you don't have to create it. You only have to say or do some minor thing that triggers a release of the anger that is already there. This is why he can erupt into a rage in only ten seconds. Typically, the rages of a BPDer will last about five hours. 

A BPDer engages in this childish behavior because, due to genetics and/or childhood abuse or abandonment, his emotional development is stuck at the level of a four year old. Hence, if your H is a BPDer, you've likely felt you have always been walking on eggshells to avoid triggering his anger. The danger of doing that is, first, it harms your H by enabling him to continue behaving like a spoiled child -- and GET AWAY WITH IT. This is harmful to him because his only chance of confronting his issues -- and learning to grow up -- is to suffer the logical consequences of his own bad behavior. 

The second danger is that, by walking on eggshells, you are harming yourself. Specifically, you are not being yourself and are ignoring your own needs. Indeed, after five years, you may have started to forget who the real you was. This is why the #1 best selling BPD book (targeted to partners of BPDers) is called _Stop Walking on Eggshells_. Like the advice in this book, that already given to you by EleGirl will help you stop walking on eggshells and start building strong personal boundaries.


> He does not think anything is wrong with him... I am the one that causes everything to happen... I am the one he is mad at because of my actions... He never apologizes


Likewise, my BPDer exW blamed every misfortune on me too. A BPDer has a weak ego and hates himself. Hence, the last thing he wants to find is another item to add to the long list of things he hates about himself. He therefore will avoid the tremendous feeling of shame by projecting all his mistakes and bad thoughts onto you. 

In that way, you serve as a "trashcan" in which he can dispose of all his guilt and shame. Moreover. as long as he has you around to be the "perpetrator," he is able to validate his false self image of being "the victim," always the victim.


> He is the most wonderful thing at times buying me lavish gifts .... but then he blows up like this and calls me stupid and tells me to f off.


This behavior -- where he suddenly flips from adoring you to hating you in 10 seconds -- is called "black-white thinking." It is a form of "splitting." It is evident when he categorizes everyone as "all good" or "all bad." It also will be evident in his frequent use of extreme expressions such as "you never..." and "you always...." This behavior is one of the hallmarks of a BPDer. 

If your H has strong BPD traits, he does this all-or-nothing thinking because he finds it extremely uncomfortable to tolerate ambiguities and gray areas. He is intolerant of the notion that someone -- like your mother -- is "an essentially good woman who sometimes does bad things." This is why, when a person commits a minor infraction or says something bothersome, a BPDer will recategorize her -- in ten seconds -- from one polar extreme to another. The result is that a BPDer will flip back and forth between adoring his spouse (i.e., splitting her white) to devaluing her (i.e., splitting her black). 

This B-W thinking may explain, then, why he hates your mother with such intensity. Namely, when a BPDer is splitting someone black, he may perceive her to be Hitler incarnate. There is no grey area -- no middle ground -- in which to categorize other people. This is why loving, church-going BPDers (with high morals) can be seen treating someone so abusively. Their perception of other peoples' intentions is strongly distorted by their intense feelings which they are unable to manage.


> I left my husband on two occasions ... he threatens for me to pack my crap every time we get in a little disagreement.


Another hallmark of BPDers is the push-you-away and pull-you-back cycle. It is caused by a BPDer's twin fears of engulfment (from intimacy) and abandonment -- as I explain in the thread mentioned below. Also, a BPDer HATES to be by himself because he has a strong need to be around a stable woman who will center and ground her. Hence, he often will keep pulling her back into the relationship after pushing her away. This is why the #2 best-selling BPD book is called _I Hate You, Don't Leave Me!_


> We both have major trust issues.


A BPDer is so emotionally unstable, and has such a fragile self image, that he cannot trust himself. He therefore is unable to trust anyone else for any extended period. Significantly, when you are living with a person who is unable to trust you, you can never trust him because he can turn on you at any time. Hence, if your H has strong BPD traits, it is understandable that BOTH of you have major trust issues. You found that you could not trust him when he betrayed you and during the numerous times he has belittled you. This is a major problem because trust is the foundation on which a marriage must be built.


> I have gone to marriage counseling by myself and he will not partake.


High functioning BPDers generally are loath to seek therapy. One reason, as I mentioned, is the last thing they want to find is one more flaw to hate about themselves. Another reason -- as I noted above -- is that they are unable to trust anyone, including the therapist. In any event, if your H has strong BPD traits, he likely will need several years of individual counseling from a clinical psychologist before MC would be useful because his issues go far beyond a lack of communication skills

And the IC is no guarantee of success. Very few BPDers will remain in therapy long enough to make a difference in their behavior. And, even when you insist on therapy, it will do no good if the BPDer does not want to work on her issues. I learned that the hard way. I spent over $200,000 on weekly therapy sessions for 15 years (with 6 psychologists and 2 MCs), all to no avail.


> There is nothing adult about how either one of us handles things...


As I said, a BPDer's emotional development is frozen at about age four. This means he is limited to using only the primitive ego defenses that we all use when we are at that young age. These include projection (i.e., blaming you), denial, magical thinking, black-white thinking, and temper tantrums. There are excellent treatment programs available that can teach BPDers how to move on to more mature ego defenses. It is rare, however, for a high functioning BPDer to be willing to do that.


> He will not take any kind of medication.


If your H has strong BPD traits, medication cannot touch them because they arise from childhood damage to his emotional core -- not from a body chemistry problem. Yet, because anxiety and depression are common side effects of such traits, doctors often prescribe medication to lessen those side effects.


> I love him dearly and just can not see myself without him.


Bling, if this discussion rings a bell but you nonetheless are determined to stay with him, I have three suggestions. First, I suggest you see a clinical psychologist for a session or two -- on your own. Without your H there, the psych is much more likely to speak candidly about his likely issues if BPD traits are involved. It is prudent to obtain a professional opinion on what you are dealing with.

Second, while you are waiting to see the psych, I suggest you say nothing to your H about BPD traits. Even if he goes to a psych himself and is diagnosed as having the full blown disorder, it is very unlikely the psych will tell him the name of the disorder -- for several reasons I've discussed in many other threads. Suffice it to say that, if your H is a BPDer, he almost certainly will project your accusation back onto you and become absolutely convinced that you are the one exhibiting strong BPD traits.

Third, I suggest you read more about BPD traits to see if most of them are strongly present in your H's behavior. I mentioned two excellent books above. And, on this forum, I provide an overview of what it's like to live with a typical BPDer in Maybe's thread at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522. If that discussion sounds familiar and you have questions, I would be glad to try to answer them or point you to good online resources that provide the answers. Take care, Bling.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Uptown, thanks for that post. It sounds exactly like my ex-husband. I had not heard about BPD until coming to this forum. But all the things you discuss are things that I had come to realize about him during our marriage.


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## blahtobling (Jan 2, 2012)

woW... I am at al loss for words after all that... that is alot to take in... thank you though for the information


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## blahtobling (Jan 2, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Before he will respect you, you have to respect and care enough for youself to be willing to lose him if he does not respect you and meet your needs.
> 
> Why are you torn about him telling you to pack and leave? He cannot kick you out of the house. He has no legal or moral basis to do this. You are the Queen of your home, your castle.. he cannot kick you out. If he gets abusive, call 911
> 
> When he tells you to leave, tell him that you are not going anywhere. That if he wants to leave he can pack and leave. If he stays he WILL treat you with respect. Those are his choices.


I do tell him I am not going any where and he says yes you are I am making you I am not asking you... and of course I stay... and of course he lets me stay...


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## blahtobling (Jan 2, 2012)

accept said:


> This sounds very complicated. Your h doesnt work do you. He still contacts daily his ex most likely the same age group as him. I suppose he doesnt talk to you much since he has his ex to do that.
> You dont have children together. It sounds like he is using you.
> Are you really on the same wave length.
> I know its hard for you being the third time. Why did you go for someone so much older than you.


My h has a job...just he doesnt have to do busy work anymore because he is a supervisor now... I do work as well...althought I am not making near the money I was... I had a really good job (that I hated!!!!!) but stayed there for three years due to the fact that I was making really good money for where we live and me not having an education)until they closed us down and laid everyone off... I don't believe that he and his ex are talking anymore... but I am not 100% sure either, because he has a work cell phone so I am uable to check his records... I have always dated older men...just my prefrence... We talk some and have some of the simular likes and hobbies...


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## accept (Dec 1, 2011)

Thanks. Why do you prefer older men. Do you need a father figure. Did you not have a father and therefore trying to make up. You may have similar outlook, likes and hobbies but do you talk the same language. Do you talk as equals. Where your previous marriages also with older men. I know its a lot of questions but the answers can help. You are anonymous on here.
I can only repeat for having the 'stigma' of so many divorces at a young age its still not worth wasting your whole life.
Keep that out of the equation to make your mind up if you should carry on with him.


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## blahtobling (Jan 2, 2012)

accept said:


> Thanks. Why do you prefer older men. Do you need a father figure. Did you not have a father and therefore trying to make up. You may have similar outlook, likes and hobbies but do you talk the same language. Do you talk as equals. Where your previous marriages also with older men. I know its a lot of questions but the answers can help. You are anonymous on here.
> I can only repeat for having the 'stigma' of so many divorces at a young age its still not worth wasting your whole life.
> Keep that out of the equation to make your mind up if you should carry on with him.


I did have a father... two actually... I tried dating men more my age and they are all so immature and I had to grow up at a very young age... So I wanted someone with the same mind set as me and not someone wanting to be stupid all the time... My first husband was actually more my age and that was just a nightmare... I resented him for stuff he did that was probably what all men his age where doing...I feel like my husband and I talk the same language...


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## accept (Dec 1, 2011)

I can see that you are deadly serious. I usually dont post more than one reply on every thread that I can advise. So you really need to be helped. Is there anyway you can bring your H on here. Have you read the thread.
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/37272-getting-over-resentment.html

Where both came on and had it out with each other with a happy ending. Perhaps you copy it and show your H.

You really have to force your H to agree to some changes. From what you have written here. He must not bring up the past. Must control his language. Not mention every minute you should leave.
If he has real issues with you he should tell you what they are. Not in an abstract way but in a practical one. 
He must also realise although you are a lot younger you are not his slave ( I was about to say *****). You are to be treated as an equal. 
The silly trust issue has to stop. You both agree not to check each other all the time. You just cant run a marriage like that.
There are most likely other things. But if you cant settle the ones I mentioned somehow you have a very bleak future with him. You say you wait on him hand and foot. I wonder how many wives do that today. Mine certainly doesnt. I am not saying its wrong but it can lead to what youre going through. Being good and kind isnt always reciprocated its usually taken advantage of.


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## blahtobling (Jan 2, 2012)

accept said:


> I can see that you are deadly serious. I usually dont post more than one reply on every thread that I can advise. So you really need to be helped. Is there anyway you can bring your H on here. Have you read the thread.
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/37272-getting-over-resentment.html
> 
> Where both came on and had it out with each other with a happy ending. Perhaps you copy it and show your H.
> ...


I totally agree.. My h would flip out if he knew I was talking to people about our issues... He is very close lipped when it comes to anything personal...He would NEVER get on here and hash anything out... I have always waited on him, that is how I was brought up very old school... You are to listen to your husband... obey your husband... cherish your husband.. But I do feel like sometimes it is taken for granted and shat upon... That I put all the effort into the realationship... He does good don't get me wrong...He does things when I ask him to... He is very giving when it comes to our sexlife... He would do anything for me... all I have to do is ask...


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## accept (Dec 1, 2011)

This site is anonymous. I dont know who you are and neither does anyone else. I post about my own life on here as well talk about others. I still think you can copy and print out the thread I mentioned and show it him. 
I wish you would tell my wife what you just wrote. She seems to think its I the husband who has to do all that.


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## blahtobling (Jan 2, 2012)

accept said:


> This site is anonymous. I dont know who you are and neither does anyone else. I post about my own life on here as well talk about others. I still think you can copy and print out the thread I mentioned and show it him.
> I wish you would tell my wife what you just wrote. She seems to think its I the husband who has to do all that.


I believe it should be both parties that should do that... everyone is lazy and disrespectful now days... A realationship should be based on two people who love each other and would do anything for each other... Not one gives and gives and gives while the other just takes... Sounds like your wife is spoiled and your allowing it just like I am allowing it... I want to make him appreciate the things I do for him... and I hope one day he will do for me and love me the way I love him... but my hopes are bleak


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