# Honest man didn't lie; everything went to Hell.



## Mak2 (Jan 9, 2018)

I was wondering if anyone has been in my position and would like to share some advice or just their experiences?

I am a 34-year-old man, married to a 45-year-old woman and have a 5-year-old son.
Just before Christmas, I started suffering from some severe symptoms of a general anxiety disorder. I’ve had this before, but not as intense. I was feeling really ill and I was finding it hard to function. I did not know what the trigger for this episode was, but it was really intense.

One evening, I started feeling exceptionally bad. I hadn’t eaten for days and was struggling to breathe. My wife came in late (son was in bed) and I just sort of broke. I explained to her that I thought our marriage should end. I said I didn’t love her anymore, we didn’t connect, we didn’t ‘get’ each other, there was no fun, no laughter, no passion and that I’d grown into a completely different person than the one she met. (We met when I was 21, she was 32. Been together 14 years ish maybe? Maths. Whatever). I said we don’t share the same interests, opinions, perspectives, values, politics, anything. I also said that I’m happiest and more alive and fun when I’m with other people. Mainly friends, but I also said that I had met some (like 3) women over the last 4 or 5 years who I really connected with. I really liked these women, we got on like crazy and I always thought that this was your clichéd ‘grass is greener’ and ‘it’s just cos they’re new’ and ‘everyone does this, don’t be a fool’ moments, so I knocked them on the head early on and forgot about them. I have never cheated (one could argue brief emotional affairs?), but I had wondered ‘why does this keep happening if I’m truly happy?’ I wasn’t aggressive or cross about it, just very calm and brutally honest, and exceptionally hurtful. But I needed to be honest. Who wants to live a lie, right? I also didn’t plan or expect these things to come out. They just did. It was like I was watching someone else say them.
She was shocked and hurt to say the least and needed some time to process this information which I afforded her.

The next day I went to see a counsellor. This mean conversation wasn’t a very ‘me’ thing to do and I wasn’t too sure how real it was (was it the anxiety making me do it? Or was my marriage the trigger?). I needed some help. After getting a bit healthier (eating food) having some therapy and some more counselling and some time, I felt a bit more normal and broached the subject again. I explained that the things I said were true and how I felt. I was sorry for being such a jerk, and she certainly deserved better than this (she has always been loving, kind, thoughtful and we never argue) but the thing she absolutely deserved was honesty.

After a few days, she processed what I said, and we spoke again. I maintained my issues were true and asked her for the things she didn’t like about me. We basically agreed on all the same things and she admitted that the marriage wasn’t great. We were friends that plodded along, not annoyed by each other, but just settling in and doing ‘fine’. At this point I thought properly for the first time ‘I think this might be over’. I asked her if she wanted this to end and she said ‘No way’. She loved me and wanted to fix things. I said I wanted to fix things too, but in reality I felt like it was pretty much done, and I was hoping for a way out. (Didn’t say that. Wasn’t totally sure and didn’t want to commit to that decision).

My wife refused and still refuses to talk to anyone about this, or go to counselling, so I got some tips from close friends and my counsellor for the next steps. I established that after everything I did and said, my wife still loves me dearly and is desperate to make things work. (She must be mad).
We spoke about why we got together in the first place – it was good. We spoke about why we stayed together for this long – it was good. We wrote a list each including everything that makes us happy about life in general – these things pretty much matched. We wrote a list including actual activities that we’d like to do that would be fun – they pretty much matched (she doesn’t want to go in a shark cage, but no one’s perfect, right?).
She then said, there you go. We have a solution. A way to make this work. It’ll take time, but if we do these things, we will discover again that we love each other. Might be a different type of love, might be the same, but it’ll certainly be love. I want this, I want to make it work. As long as you want it too, we’ll get through this and be fine.

I agreed to give it my best shot.

Problem is, I don’t really feel like I want to try. I don’t feel like it’ll work. I don’t feel like I love her and I don’t feel like I want to be with her anymore, regardless of whether we do all these things.
I can’t help these feelings. I know feelings are weird and fickle and can change and evolve, but right now, I’ve got nothing. I feel like I want to leave.

Note: I have already considered what leaving would be like: things like my child, my house, financial implications, families and friendship groups, being alone, and all these things are and will be fine. I’m not staying in a marriage because of a house or money. I also don’t think you can stay with someone for your kid’s sake. Two miserable parents make for a very messed up kid.

So what do I do? Try anyway and just hope it'll work out? Force myself to see the best in the situation until I believe it? 'Fake it till I make it'? Or will I just end up right back where I am a year later?

Has anyone been here? Near here? Any advice? Any experience to share? Anyone wanna tell me I’m an ungrateful a**hole who should be smacked? Go ahead.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

why on earth were you marrying a 32 year old woman when you were 21????
You basically married your aunt. If you were 3 years and a day younger, she would have been a sex predator (not that any court in the land would have prosecuted it) 

If you are really that unhappy and she concedes that she feels the same way, there is no point here. 

At 34 you are now at the top of your marketability and she is probably a couple years from menopause. 

At 34 you can date, hook up with hot chicks, remarry and have a whole new family with a 28 year old. 

She is going to be taking Premarin for a dusty jay-jay and plucking beard hairs off her chin in a few years. 

You may have had some kind of MILF fantasies when you first started seeing her and that is fine (I like MILF porn myself) and she may have got off on some 21 year old dude with abz and who is able to recharge for Round 2 quickly, but for her to marry you and have a child with you is messed up and somewhat predatory in nature. 

I doubt that you were such a hot stud that it over came her senses. I have the feeling that she has some serious issues and that no adult man would touch her with a ten foot pole so she found some inexperienced, naïve 21 year old and molded him into her reality. 

Now that you are an adult man and are finally starting to figure out the real ways of the world, you are realizing what a messed up situation this really is. 

You are feeling restless and like a caged tiger and like there is more out there in the world for you - because there is!!!

You've had some kind of messed up mommy issues and have basically moved from your bio-mommy's house into your predator-mommy's house and now the adult in you is wanting to go out into the world and make an adult life for yourself. 

I'll be darned if I am going to try to talk you out of that.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

You appeared completely checked out. No desire to even try. You seem very depressed about the entire thing. If that is the case, "working on it by doing the things that made you fall in love" will probably not help. The opportunity to state your facts for throwing in the towel was lost when you made a poor decision to state you would work on it. You should not waste your W time working on something that you have no desire to fix and is a futile exercise for your W.


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## username77 (Dec 27, 2017)

It's always better to be honest and damn the consequences then lie and be deceptive to avoid them. Being honest frees you, even if the consequences are severe, a clear conscience is always worth it.

How you broached it was terrible, you can't just emotionally vomit this **** at someone with no warning. But the honesty portion was right.

I would say the age gap at your particular age is the main problem. At 34 you're going to get attention from younger women, fertile women, nubile women. Your biology is clamoring for you to mate with these women.

If you were 45 and she were 55 it likely isn't as much of a big deal assuming she's keeping in shape. But like someone said, right now you're at your peak in terms of career potential, reproduction, physical strength and likely looks. She's likely seeing her doctor for something to relieve her perimenopause symptoms.

_____________________________________________________

I'm in a similar boat, my wife and I have been having a terrible time. It blew up with her throwing her wedding ring at me and demanding a divorce. I said "OK". the next day she was very upset and apologetic and wanted to do anything to fix the marriage.

I had to tell her that this needed to happen many years ago, I don't have anything left. the ONLY thing keeping me in the marriage the last 3 years was fear of the divorce process and missing my kids.

She's been a wreck, but I'm holding strong. It doesn't mean I'm not extremely sad about it, I am, so sad, but divorcing is absolutely the right thing to do.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Not sure why you say everything went to hell? The situation is hell it's true, but telling the truth has given you the platform to resolve it one way or another.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> why on earth were you marrying a 32 year old woman when you were 21????
> You basically married your aunt. If you were 3 years and a day younger, she would have been a sex predator (not that any court in the land would have prosecuted it)
> 
> If you are really that unhappy and she concedes that she feels the same way, there is no point here.
> ...


Man the op has problems but they are nothing compared to yours.
Or are you trolling?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Andy1001 said:


> Man the op has problems but they are nothing compared to yours.
> Or are you trolling?


The guy married a 32 year old woman at 21. 

She married a 21 year old at 32. 

Who does that????


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

If you love her romantically, work on the marriage and reevaluate after 6 months. If you aren't in love with her, do the right thing for both of you and just end it.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Andy1001 said:


> Man the op has problems but they are nothing compared to yours.
> Or are you trolling?


I hate to say it, but I kind of agree with @oldshirt. This woman either had some issues or was simply foolishly naive. She was a fully fledged woman. He was a wet behind the ears kid who had a lot of growing to do before being able to choose a life mate.


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> The guy married a 32 year old woman at 21. Who does that????


The OP did and now is father to a 5 year old son. How do you think the teenage-boy-fantasy advice below is going to affect that son?

"At 34 you can date, hook up with hot chicks, remarry and have a *whole new family *with a 28 year old."

Sure, just forget being a father, forget his son and replace him with a new family. :slap:


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Red Sonja said:


> The OP did and now is father to a 5 year old son. How do you think the teenage-boy-fantasy advice below is going to affect that son?
> 
> "At 34 you can date, hook up with hot chicks, remarry and have a *whole new family *with a 28 year old."
> 
> Sure, just forget being a father, forget his son and replace him with a new family. :slap:


I’m not trying to put words into the op’s mouth as oldshirt seems to be doing but what you posted is exactly what a lot of young guys seem to think.”I screwed up this time but I will be smarter next time around,you don’t expect me to pay for my mistakes though do you.”


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

MJJEAN said:


> I hate to say it, but I kind of agree with @oldshirt. This woman either had some issues or was simply foolishly naive. She was a fully fledged woman. He was a wet behind the ears kid who had a lot of growing to do before being able to choose a life mate.


He was twenty one not eleven.By twenty one I was five years living on my own and from what I recall you grew up pretty quickly too.
And if he was such a loser at twenty one,where did this dashing man about town who is going to pick up women easily appear from,oldshirts imagination I think.


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

MJJEAN said:


> I hate to say it, but I kind of agree with @oldshirt. This woman either had some issues or was simply foolishly naive. She was a fully fledged woman. He was a wet behind the ears kid who had a lot of growing to do before being able to choose a life mate.


All that does not matter NOW because there is a 5 year old child involved. And BTW, he decided to have that child when he was 29 years old ... i.e. no longer wet behind the ears.

He has an obligation to at least try and see if this marriage can be recovered, he has a willing wife and that is a start. If after that he decides to divorce then fine. What he cannot do is to just start living the single life, banging chicks and creating new children (per @oldshirt) without considering the affect on his son.

Yes, marriages sometimes are impermanent however children and being a parent are forever. OP do not abandon your son.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> The guy married a 32 year old woman at 21.
> 
> She married a 21 year old at 32.
> 
> Who does that????


;;

Loads of people marry much older partners. One of the happiest marriages I know is between a couple where she was 19 and he 29 when they married. That was 42 years ago. Another happy marriage was between my aunt aged early 20's and her husband aged 40. They were happily married for about 45 years till he died.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Red Sonja said:


> The OP did and now is father to a 5 year old son. How do you think the teenage-boy-fantasy advice below is going to affect that son?
> 
> "At 34 you can date, hook up with hot chicks, remarry and have a *whole new family *with a 28 year old."
> 
> Sure, just forget being a father, forget his son and replace him with a new family. :slap:


No one has said a word about abandoning or neglecting his son. 

They are father and son and will be for life.

Whether he wants to divorce his wife and whether he wants to start another family with another woman or not is up to him.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Andy1001 said:


> He was twenty one not eleven.By twenty one I was five years living on my own and from what I recall you grew up pretty quickly too.
> And if he was such a loser at twenty one,where did this dashing man about town who is going to pick up women easily appear from,oldshirts imagination I think.


Yes, 21 is well into adulthood. I was married, had bought my own home and had a baby at age 21.Its only recently that people are staying as perpetual teenagers well into their 20's and even 30's.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

You have a small child a wife and responsibilities. So you regret marrying her, so what? You made promises to her, you choose to marry her and you choose to have a child with her. Stop thinking about running away, put on your big boy pants and work at this marriage. Unless you want to devastate your wife and child and both sets of families.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

OP, you say you want to be honest with your wife but you aren't telling her the truth.
You're stringing her along, allowing her to believe that there's a chance the marriage can be salvaged, when you have admitted that you don't want to try.
She deserves to know the whole truth, not just the truth that you want to disclose so that she doesn't get "mad."

You can successfully co-parent. But do not shirk your responsibilities.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> ;;
> 
> Loads of people marry much older partners. One of the happiest marriages I know is between a couple where she was 19 and he 29 when they married. That was 42 years ago. Another happy marriage was between my aunt aged early 20's and her husband aged 40. They were happily married for about 45 years till he died.


Notice you didn't cite any examples of 21 year men and 32 year old women.

(Not that young women/mature men are any better or aren't bred from the same issues)

I realize these are two legal adults and have the right to do what they want.

But there was something fishy going on.

Why would a 32 year old woman want to marry a 21 year old guy? Cause she couldn't get an adult man to give her the time of day perhaps??? Or so she could mold and manipulate him into what she wanted???

There is a huge maturity and power difference between a 32 year old and a 21 year dude. 

And why would a 21 year old guy want to marry someone old enough to be his aunt unless he was floundering miserably with girls his own age and wanted some kind of care taker or had some kind of mommy issues.

When a 60 year old marries a 49 year old, it's not a big deal. 

But someone in their 30s marrying a 21 year old, it's not because they are young and cute and firmer than their contemporaries. It's because people of their own age group are on to them and because people significantly less mature and developed are easier to control and manipulate.

That goes for both men and women. 

The man is obviously miserable and desperate so the proof is in the the pudding that this was not a healthy and functional union.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Andy1001 said:


> He was twenty one not eleven.By twenty one I was five years living on my own and from what I recall you grew up pretty quickly too.
> And if he was such a loser at twenty one,where did this dashing man about town who is going to pick up women easily appear from,oldshirts imagination I think.


I perhaps don't know as much about you as you know about me, but you know as well as I that most 21 year olds aren't nearly mature. 

I'd been caregiver for an invalid mother since I was in elementary school and then took care of my siblings as they came along. I was fully responsible for cooking the meals, seeing to the laundry and housework, and did the yard work, too, because yard work netted me a small allowance. Most people aren't raised that way. I still made plenty of noob mistakes that I can't erase. There were many life altering choices that I wouldn't have made just 3-4 years later.

I'm not saying he was a loser. I am saying he was perhaps young and too immature to choose a wife yet. 




Red Sonja said:


> All that does not matter NOW because there is a 5 year old child involved. And BTW, he decided to have that child when he was 29 years old ... i.e. no longer wet behind the ears.
> 
> He has an obligation to at least try and see if this marriage can be recovered, he has a willing wife and that is a start. If after that he decides to divorce then fine. What he cannot do is to just start living the single life, banging chicks and creating new children (per @oldshirt) without considering the affect on his son.
> 
> Yes, marriages sometimes are impermanent however children and being a parent are forever. OP do not abandon your son.


Divorce needn't mean abandonment and neither does possibly deciding to have more children with another woman. If he wants to live the single life as a single man when his son is with the mother there's nothing wrong with that.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Diana7 said:


> Yes, 21 is well into adulthood. I was married, had bought my own home and had a baby at age 21.Its only recently that people are staying as perpetual teenagers well into their 20's and even 30's.


Google "extended adolescence". It's a real thing. The younger generation isn't as grown as they should be by that age. Not to mention science says that the human brain literally doesn't finish developing until +/- age 25.

How'd that youthful marriage work out for you? Wasn't he a cheater? Isn't the husband you are currently married to, that you chose as a mature adult, a much better match? You aren't alone. Marriages made in that age range have a much higher rate of divorce. Some estimates claim marriages under age 25 have a 50% higher rate of failure. There is a reason for that.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> The guy married a 32 year old woman at 21.
> 
> She married a 21 year old at 32.
> 
> Who does that????


Me. I'm 47 and my wife is 58.

Been together over 26 years.

Looks bad on paper but real life is far more organic and messy.

OP comes off as shallow, mentally/emotionally unstable and in need of professional help which it appears he is getting.

I would take him to the cleaners if I was her.

Hope she gets help and finds a solid man.

You probably should have figured this out before marrying her for 12 years and having a kid.

I have no sympathy for you and can only say stay in counseling/therapy.

You don't strike me as being very grown up for 32.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> Notice you didn't cite any examples of 21 year men and 32 year old women.
> 
> (Not that young women/mature men are any better or aren't bred from the same issues)
> 
> ...


Ugh.

Stop while you only have two feet in your mouth.

I met my wife at 20 and she was 31.

I did not lack for female attention at all and definitely didn't have mommy issues.

It was love at first sight for me and it took about a week for me to convince her to give me a serious try.

Not all boys take forever to grow up.

Little boys need to keep their little peckers zipped up until they are grown up enough to be responsible enough to use them.


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## Mak2 (Jan 9, 2018)

Wow thanks for the responses! 

Just to clarify, we met when I was 21 and she was 32. We were together for 6 years before we married when I was 27 and she was 38.

Yes I think I probably had some mommy issues at the time we met (believe it or not, I didn’t know that at the time) and in hindsight, she definitely looked after me, which was very needed at the time. Do you think I married her because I was being looked after? It’s possible I suppose.

There is no question about me adandoning my son. That will never happen.

I know it’s not totally honest to withhold the part about me not really wanting to try, but I’m not completely convinced about that either way yet, so I’m not sure I should commit to that decision?

I agree that putting my big boy pants on and taking responsibility sounds like a great idea, but is that making us both happy? Isn’t that more of a lie than just leaving? I could easily make my self stay. I would have thought it better to want to stay.

Thanks for the comments though, very nice to hear other points of view!


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

MJJEAN said:


> I perhaps don't know as much about you as you know about me, but you know as well as I that most 21 year olds aren't nearly mature.
> 
> I'd been caregiver for an invalid mother since I was in elementary school and then took care of my siblings as they came along. I was fully responsible for cooking the meals, seeing to the laundry and housework, and did the yard work, too, because yard work netted me a small allowance. Most people aren't raised that way. I still made plenty of noob mistakes that I can't erase. There were many life altering choices that I wouldn't have made just 3-4 years later.
> 
> ...


The op has clarified that he was twenty seven when he got married so him being twenty one is a moot point.
I know you had a tough time growing up and I remembered you writing before about looking after your siblings and your mom.I didn’t have it nearly so bad.I moved out the day after I was sixteen and my Dad paid the first years lease on an apt for me.My parents moved back to Europe shortly afterwards so if things hadn’t worked out I was in trouble.
But I think kids have their hands held too long anyway,some of them never grow up and when they finally move out they haven’t a clue how to look after themselves.Girls are far better than boys in this respect.
By the way I hope your daughter and future grandchild ar keeping well.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

MJJEAN said:


> Google "extended adolescence". It's a real thing. The younger generation isn't as grown as they should be by that age. Not to mention science says that the human brain literally doesn't finish developing until +/- age 25.
> 
> How'd that youthful marriage work out for you? Wasn't he a cheater? Isn't the husband you are currently married to, that you chose as a mature adult, a much better match? You aren't alone. Marriages made in that age range have a much higher rate of divorce. Some estimates claim marriages under age 25 have a 50% higher rate of failure. There is a reason for that.


No he wasn't a cheater, and we were married for 25 years. Two of the happiest marriages I know of are of friends of mine who married their spouses at age 19. They have both been married for 42 years now.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Mak2 said:


> Wow thanks for the responses!
> 
> Just to clarify, we met when I was 21 and she was 32. We were together for 6 years before we married when I was 27 and she was 38.
> 
> ...


IF you leave your wife you are abandoning your son. Seeing him once a week or every other weekend isn't the same at all. I cant fathom how anyone could leave their own child, there was no way that I would ever have done that. They came first always.


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## Mak2 (Jan 9, 2018)

Yes I can understand that. But would he not grow up thinking it’s fine to be in an unhappy relationship? I’ve tried my best to keep my feelings from him but he has asked me a couple of time now ‘why are you sad daddy?’ So he knows I’m sad. I never want him to think it’s ok to be sad and that you should just accept it. But you’re right, it’s a huge deal. 

Seeing him less is not abandonment in my eyes though. But it is much worse for him to have a part time dad, I agree.


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## FieryHairedLady (Mar 24, 2011)

Mak, get counseling, get help. Work on falling in love again. Nothing you mentioned here sounds worth divorcing over.

Women age.

Men age.

It is nice to be happy in our marriages, but our spouse is not responsible for our happiness.

I hate it how everything is so disposable in this society. Divorce is a horrible thing.

Sometimes it is a necessity in extenuating circumstances. 

But it is not a fix it all.

Work on your marriage. 

Your lucky she didn't throw YOU out over saying that.


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## Mak2 (Jan 9, 2018)

Well you’re absolutely right. I thought I should’ve got kicked out too. 

And yes, she is not responsible for my happiness. That is an excellent point. Nice bit of perspective for me, thank you. I mean I may have already broken this beyond repair of course!


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## FieryHairedLady (Mar 24, 2011)

You have not broken it beyond repair if she is still willing to work on the marriage. You just may be down in the dumps. Marriages have ups and downs. 

I have been married for almost 12 years. 2nd marriage.

1st marriage was almost 11 years.

Very different men. Very different marriages. I thank God for my 2nd husband.

But you know what? It took physical, mental, verbal and emotional abuse to get me to walk away from hubby # 1. We had lots of kids together, hooked up very young.

Other then the awesome kids, it was the worst decision I made.

But you know what? Out of all the terrible things that have happened to me in my life, out of all the loved ones and family members that have died. My divorce was the worst thing. And it still haunts me.

I did my best, and stayed for way too long, and I am so happy i have my 2nd husband. 

But divorce is a real kick in the pants.

It is devastating.

It is like a train wreck.

It is something I don't ever want to do again. 

And my ex passed on almost 10 years ago.

SO yeah I had an angry destructive ex to deal with for a few years, but haven't for quite a while.

The grass is greener on the other side of the fence with my new hubby. Our marriage is 100X better, I married better the second time around, etc.

But it is only better and greener because we make it so. Because we both work at it.

And we have had ups and downs. You have to make a commitment to work at it.

Its not about being in love, or being happy. 

Its about making a promise to someone and making a commitment.

And then both of you doing your best day in and day out to keep the love alive, to make it a marriage worth having.


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## FieryHairedLady (Mar 24, 2011)

By the way, my hubby is 4 1/2 years younger then me. Not quite the same as your 11 year difference. He says he keeps forgetting and thinks he is the older one. Probably because he is the Boss!


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> IF you leave your wife you are abandoning your son. Seeing him once a week or every other weekend isn't the same at all. I cant fathom how anyone could leave their own child, there was no way that I would ever have done that. They came first always.


Once a week/every other weekend is a pretty outdated custody arrangement for fathers today.

Assuming they live in the US and assuming he is not judged incompetent or judged as some kind of threat to the child's welfare, some form of shared joint custody is pretty standard today.

I don't know why this thread has triggered assumptions of child abandonment and people are assuming he will abandon and neglect the child.

People get divorced and work out child care and custodial arrangements all the time.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> Once a week/every other weekend is a pretty outdated custody arrangement for fathers today.
> 
> Assuming they live in the US and assuming he is not judged incompetent or judged as some kind of threat to the child's welfare, some form of shared joint custody is pretty standard today.
> 
> ...


Yes, and I have seen many children very damaged and hurt by their mum or dad leaving the house even if they still see them. I don't know how anyone can leave their children. It depends on who we put first, us or them.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> Yes, and I have seen many children very damaged and hurt by their mum or dad leaving the house even if they still see them. I don't know how anyone can leave their children. It depends on who we put first, us or them.


Just because someone divorces a spouse does not mean that they leave/abandon/neglect their children.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> Just because someone divorces a spouse does not mean that they leave/abandon/neglect their children.


I thought this had been covered back in the 1980s and didn't need to be pointed out in 2018.


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## Rhubarb (Dec 1, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> why on earth were you marrying a 32 year old woman when you were 21????


Seriously though, if the genders were reversed it woudn't be much of a big deal. I have a hunch that she simply isn't as hot as she was when he married her and he's using all these touchy feely argument to justify breaking up since he can't do it based on anything she's done.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> Just because someone divorces a spouse does not mean that they leave/abandon/neglect their children.





It means that one of them leaves their children and sees them far less than they did.


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

Rhubarb said:


> Seriously though, if the genders were reversed it woudn't be much of a big deal. I have a hunch that she simply isn't as hot as she was when he married her and he's using all these touchy feely argument to justify breaking up since he can't do it based on anything she's done.


I hope not, but in any case some of the suggestions that he needs to dump her and trade her in for a younger model are pretty distasteful.

She's his wife, not his Buick.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> It means that one of them leaves their children and sees them far less than they did.


It is technically correct that they may see then less. That is a factor that must be weighed in to the equation and decision-tree on whether to divorce or remain in the marriage and in the marital home.

That does not automatically mean that they have to be any less loving, any less supportive or any less involved in their children's lives.

Yes there are people that have divorced and flew the Koop and were never involved in their children's lives again.

But there are also many others that have divorced their spouse but remained very active and involved and supportive in their kid's lives forever.

The OP in this thread has not given any indication that that is his intent to disregard the kids so it is a giant unsubstantiated leap to assume that he will be abandoning or neglecting his kids in any way.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

To the Original Poster

You said:

"I said I wanted to fix things too, but in reality I felt like it was pretty much done, and I was hoping for a way out."

How does that square with the title, Honest man didn't lie?

There's more, but I think you need to stop and think about the fact you lie to your wife, and you lie to yourself. You lie to us. We don't mind, we're just internet scum, but why bother lying to us?

I note you seem to say when you are speaking what you seem to think is the truth you feel you aren't you, even. A lot of indications you have trouble facing the truth, plain and simple. 

The title makes me think you are fighting desperately to try to make yourself think you are actually honest. But you aren't.


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## pragmaticGoddess (Nov 29, 2017)

OP, I am sorry that we have some incredibly judgmental people here commenting on the age gap between you and your wife. 

That said, you sound like you are still the age you were when met your wife. 

You get a pat on the back for sitting down with your wife to work out what you still both have in common. You need to try to emotionally reconnect. Your son deserves it. It is not all about you. 

The question is have you put in any effort to meet your wife's emotional needs? It sounds as if you're focusing on you and your unhappiness. 

Do not make the decision to leave while you are still in the early stages of GAD. It sounds like you maybe in the throes of depression as well? Once you have your mental illness under control through medication and therapy, that would be a better time to make a call then. 

If you think that love is about how you feel and your happiness, you may as well join the 50% of marriages that end in divorce. But your next relationship will probably die a similar death. Marriage is not a contract that you tear up when the goods aren't delivered. It is a commitment to love regardless. It's giving 100% of your everything. You should be loving unconditionally, but you don't know how. Unfortunately 13 years together doesn't guarantee that you learn.


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## pragmaticGoddess (Nov 29, 2017)

Inloveforeverwithhubby said:


> Mak, get counseling, get help. Work on falling in love again. Nothing you mentioned here sounds worth divorcing over.
> 
> Women age.
> 
> ...


Yes I was going to say this too! Your spouse is not responsible for your happiness. To hold your spouse responsible for something like this is unfair. We're all imperfect human beings who are incapable of making someone completely happy. OP, if you're looking for someone to give you the meaning of life you will not find it.


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## Rhubarb (Dec 1, 2017)

GTdad said:


> I hope not, but in any case some of the suggestions that he needs to dump her and trade her in for a younger model are pretty distasteful.
> 
> She's his wife, not his Buick.


Not sure if that was meant for me, but I wasn't trying to suggest that. In fact quite the opposite. The OP really lays out no good reasons to leave his wife. It sounds more like he just wants to do it and is looking for moral support. There should be something a lot more serious than the typical "I'm just not feeling it" to precipitate braking up a family.


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

Rhubarb said:


> Not sure if that was meant for me, but I wasn't trying to suggest that. In fact quite the opposite. The OP really lays out no good reasons to leave his wife. It sounds more like he just wants to do it and is looking for moral support. There should be something a lot more serious than the typical "I'm just not feeling it" to precipitate braking up a family.


No worries. I had one or two others, not you, in mind. I agree with you.


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## Mak2 (Jan 9, 2018)

There are some brilliant comments here. 

First things first, my wife is still hot and I do not need to ‘trade her in for a younger model’. That’s not me.

Second, yes I’m struggling to be honest with myself.

Third, getting my mental health in order is the first thing to do, before making a call, totally agree.

Trying to make this work for my son is the best thing to do. He comes first, so putting in an effort for his sake is the best call. 

My wife and I have spoken further about one thing that really resonates. We both need to work on our own happiness - that is our own responsibility, we can’t expect the other to be responsible for that. And also, we need to make more effort to meet the other’s emotional needs. If I tried harder to meet her needs, she would find it easier to be happy, and then meet my needs and vice versa. That is an excellent point. I have definitely just been looking at my happiness and no one else’s recently.

Thank you for some of these comments. They have helped with perspective that’s for sure.


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## FalCod (Dec 6, 2017)

You sound immature from a relationship perspective. I hope that you understand that virtually all relationships follow a pattern of growing excitement early on which peaks and then declines. Once things settle down, you have ups and downs. The highs are never as high as the original attraction. It's normal.

Serial monogamists are a less extreme form of that. They realize after a while that they are not as attracted to their spouse as they once were and they feel excited by new people, so they conclude something is missing and leave their spouse. They find the next person to be AMAZING.......for a while and then the pattern repeats. Cheaters often follow the same pattern but usually have other character flaws that compound the problem.

You're relationship has hit a lull. You want the excitement of a new relationship. You feel that potential when you are around other people. You had very little experience outside of this relationship, so you don't realize that the new relationship is likely to follow the same pattern.

Maybe you are mismatched. Maybe you could do better. Seems like a crappy thing to do to your child because your marriage is blah and you want an upgrade, but maybe things are worse than what I took from your OP.

If you want my advice, I think you should double down on your current marriage. Try to rekindle. Woo her again. Work hard to get the excitement going. Don't be a quitter, at least not until you can look in the mirror and tell yourself that you tried your very hardest.


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## FalCod (Dec 6, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> Just because someone divorces a spouse does not mean that they leave/abandon/neglect their children.


Abandonment is definitely too harsh of a comment, but there is no getting around the fact that children of divorce are worse off in many ways than children from intact families. I'm sure that a lot of that is correlation rather than causation, but the stats are pretty grim. Children of divorce have higher suicide rates, divorce rates, addiction rates, and many other problems. That isn't to say that many or even most children of divorced parents aren't going to turn out perfectly fine. I'm just saying that, in general, children of divorced parents are worse off than those that aren't divorced. 

Whether children of parents that don't get along are worse off than children of divorced parents is another story. If they had a toxic relationship, it would probably be better if they divorced. But if they get along well but he thinks he could do better, I suspect that his child would be better off if he tried harder to maintain his commitment to his wife rather than looking to see if the grass is greener in the next pasture.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> Andy1001 said:
> 
> 
> > Man the op has problems but they are nothing compared to yours.
> ...


Oldshirt I usually really like your opinions. Not so much here. No one bats a ****ing eye when a man and woman get together and she is younger than him ( in fact it's always put out there to men with glee, "get a younger, hotter chick" but now it's gross because there's a 10 year age difference because she is older than him?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

OP your lists of things you want to do in life were the same, you said. You also said you think your wife is beautiful. I'd try real hard to rekindle your relationship!! I'd think chances are high if you both give it a try.


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## Rick Blaine (Mar 27, 2017)

Falling out of love is a problem to be solved, not a reason to divorce. 
Read: 1) His Needs, Her Needs, and 2) Buyers, Renters, and Freeloaders. 

You can learn more about these concepts at the marriage builders website. Look them up.

Be a promise keeper, not a renter. For your son and your wife. For your honor.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Livvie said:


> Oldshirt I usually really like your opinions. Not so much here. No one bats a ****ing eye when a man and woman get together and she is younger than him ( in fact it's always put out there to men with glee, "get a younger, hotter chick" but now it's gross because there's a 10 year age difference because she is older than him?




I am actually quite critical of large age gaps when it involves very young women and full grown men as well. 

I may make unpopular statements but I am not being hypocritical. 

When someone (male or female) in their 30s and above targets someone (male or female) in their late teens/early 20s, it is often not because of them being cuter and firmer, but rather the imbalance of power and influence. 

If a man in his 30s is working up a young women in her teens/early 20s, it's not because the women in his age group are getting old and wrinkled. It's usually because they are experienced and smart enough that they are on to him and won't put up with his crap, where as a younger, less experienced and less worldly girl may fall for it and will be more easily manipulated by him. 

It's not that young woman/older man is any less bad - it is simply more commonplace and somewhat socially accepted. 

What makes older woman/younger man scenarios attention-grabbing is not that they are any better or any worse; they are simply less common. 

I'm not necessarily saying that the OP or his wife are bad people or anything. But he admitted in a post above that he had mommy issues and was looking for someone to take care of him. 

That doesn't make either of them a monster or a child molester or anything. But he was looking for a stand-in mommy to help take care of him and she was likely looking some young guy that she could mold and make into what she wanted. That may not be evil or immoral depending on what all was going on. But it's probably not sustainable. 

As men mature and develop, they eventually leave their mommies and take a mate and make their own home and family. 

And unless they have some kind of weird and unhealthy hitch in their git-along, they also do not sexually desire and have healthy sex lives with their mommies. 

I know many of you are going to be jumping up and down disagreeing with me and citing me examples of all these people that have been happily married for 72 years with big age gaps and I am happy for all of those people. 

But the OP is obviously miserable and has a lot of issues and demons and this arrangement is no longer working for him.


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## nekonamida (Feb 21, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> Livvie said:
> 
> 
> > Oldshirt I usually really like your opinions. Not so much here. No one bats a ****ing eye when a man and woman get together and she is younger than him ( in fact it's always put out there to men with glee, "get a younger, hotter chick" but now it's gross because there's a 10 year age difference because she is older than him?
> ...


I'd just like to chime in and say that I'm on a lot of other advice forums and everyone jumps all over age gaps when the woman is younger. It's no longer socially acceptable for a much older adult to date a very young adult and usually for good reason. The young adults of today are nothing like the young adults of yesteryear. On average all of the hallmarks of adulthood come considerably later for young adults today. 

A 21-year-old just does not have their life figured out as well as a 32-year-old and that is evident by how OP is considering ending his marriage because it's stale despite having a lot of good reasons to work on it. It's a rookie mistake and a rookie thought process when it comes to marriage. Had he gotten the chance to date around more, he'd might have found out that this happens in basically all relationships at some point and that relationships take work. He might appreciate what his wife does bring to the table a little bit more if he knew what a bad relationship or fundamental incompatibilities really looked like. There doesn't necessarily have to be anything wrong with the older partner for a relationship like this to fail because of the age gap.


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