# Understanding cheaters



## TheRock (Jul 12, 2013)

Ok 

So a little background info here. I am male late 20 married for just over 2 years, and have a little 13 week old girl. I love my wife and I have never and would like to think that I would never go down the road of cheating. 

I ended up on TAM due to a decrease in sex in my marriage and have spent a good deal of time in the sex in marriage area (and am still trying to work on that issue) but have been drawn to reading the CWI. 

I will preface what I am about to say by stating that I in no way shape or form condone cheating. 

But after reading some of the threads in CWI & SIM I am begining to understand why certain individuals step out on there marriage (male & Female) I also read threads in the SIM area and find myself saying i wouldn't blame that individual for cheating on there spouse. I wouldn't agree with it but I certainly would not blame them for it. 

I am wondering if anyone else shares that sentiment?


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Not me.

ETA: When you "understand" why some people might cheat, you have cleared the way to do so yourself, regardless of whether you can imagine yourself doing so or not.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

I don't think that you will find lots here who share your opinion and viewpoint. The majority here are dealing with the atrocities and after effects of the worst pain that one could imagine in their lives (worse than death, war, etc). To think that anything justifies cheating is just wrong in most of our opinions.

If things are getting so bad, either seek professional assistance or leave the marriage. You have a newborn and they take up time and effort, which can leave little extra energy and time for sex. It will pass, but if you are thinking of straying, then take the honorable and proper route first to seek professional assistance or leave the marriage rather than destroy your wife and newly budding family. If you fell that she is the issue, then talk to her about your concerns and seek professional assistance (as it could be mental or physical having just had a baby chemistry can change) and if that don't work then exit the marriage with honor.


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## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

I haven't read your other threads but you have a 13 week baby and you're complaining about lack of sex already?

As the kids say, SMH...


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Cheating is a choice. I have yet to find an acceptable "reason" to cheat.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

So are you saying you are ok if your wife cheats on you because she is resentful for you the way you treated her after she gave birth to your child? 

Given with what you have stated would that not be an acceptable reason for you? 

Clay


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> no one...and I mean NO ONE deserves to be CHEATED on...for ANY reason. PERIOD.
> 
> If you are having marital issues...try to fix them...if you cant divorce. But infidelity...is wrong on every level.


:iagree:

These posts do not let you 
"like" more then once so i am doing this quote cause i really like this one.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

TheRock said:


> Ok
> 
> So a little background info here. I am male late 20 married for just over 2 years, and have a little 13 week old girl. I love my wife and I have never and would like to think that I would never go down the road of cheating.
> 
> ...


How about a hypothetical...

One of your friends is in the same situation as you. He's a new dad, his wife's body is healing from the rigors of pregnancy and labor, and the whole family is fawning over the new baby. He pulls you aside one day and says he's having sex with one of his coworkers because sex has decreased at home. The next time you see his wife, she's all aglow in new motherhood and feeding and playing with the baby. And you know your buddy has been getting busy with an office mate on the side. Would that sit well with you? Wouldn't you just want to slap some sense into him?

Now take a more extreme case. You're out at a bar with your sister's husband and some buddies. Your sister just had her first child about four months ago. You overhear your drunk brother-in-law confide to a random stranger at the bar that last week he received a blow job from a woman who approached him in a store. Now how neutral do you feel about other people cheating?

Everybody is somebody else's spouse, sister, brother, son, daughter, best friend, parent or other loved one. Cheating does not happen in an abstracted universe.


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> no one...and I mean NO ONE deserves to be CHEATED on...for ANY reason. PERIOD.
> 
> If you are having marital issues...try to fix them...if you cant divorce. But infidelity...is wrong on every level.


I totally totally agree.... Nobody deserves it no matter what, Either work at the marriage and if that fails then get a divorce.

I always say let the other person leave with a bit of dignity, as i think that no matter what is going wrong in the marriage nobody deserves being cheated on.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

_I also read threads in the SIM area and find myself saying i wouldn't blame that individual for cheating on there spouse. I wouldn't agree with it but I certainly would not blame them for it._ 

This shows that OP believes that stepping outside the marriage for sexual gratification is a *viable and acceptable option* under certain circumstances. Maybe not one that he would choose (yet), but OK for others. TheRock, you are not going to find many takers for this sentiment here, I'm afraid.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Be the Rock, not just a C*ck


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## Hurtin_Still (Oct 3, 2011)

.....just a thought:

..... no one likes to be called a wimp or a pvssy. It's a readily apparent attack on their character. Perhaps if infidelity is equated with being not only a hurtful ...but cowardly act ....people might choose differently?

....it might hammer home the unacceptable nature of infidelity?


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

I’ll bite. In my head there are what I call thresholds. That point it gets to when what is normally unfathomable becomes a option on the table. Murder for instance. Big difference between just shooting someone on the street and hunting down and killing the pedofile who raped and murdered your child. Lots of grey and each person has a threshold. Doesn’t ever make it a good thing. But ‘understandable’ and ‘good’ aren’t the same; You know you will hurt them and probably anyone who loves them too. Even the person hunting knows they are going to be in trouble; Sometimes you simply accept the ‘wrongness’ of it because not doing anything would haunt you and anything less won’t satisfy your need to do it. Infidelity can be like that. 

Some of this also comes from a strong belief I have that sex and fidelity isn’t the only reason you are with that person. It’s just a part, but not the foundation of marriage.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

If you really understood the sick, disgusting, vulgar, shamefulness of infidelity you wouldn't be saying "would like to think that I would never go down the road of cheating."

You would know deep in your soul that you could never do this to someone you claim to love.

Instead, you would be actively defending your marriage against those that seek to harm it.


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## berries (Nov 4, 2013)

That was one of the comments my stbx made to my former BFF. He "understood what made her step out on her husband 2 years ago". According to him he knew she was "just looking for a sliver of happiness". SO then they found themselves with another "sliver of happiness with each other" ripping mine and my kids world's apart in the process.

There is nothing understandable about that.


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## TimesLikeThese (Sep 13, 2012)

Cheating is never the answer.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

There are lots of things that I "understand" that I would never do. I have felt so angry at my daughter that I wanted to throw her to the floor. I would never do it. The ability to not do all the things you feel like doing is part of maturity.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

TheRock said:


> Ok
> 
> So a little background info here. I am male late 20 married for just over 2 years, and have a little 13 week old girl. I love my wife and I have never and would like to think that I would never go down the road of cheating.
> 
> ...


If you hate your wife with a passion, then cheat on her.. If you want sex with her, and like her.. cheating on her won't be the answer to your problems. If you want sex with someone else, leave your wife and keep some self respect and your dignity intact. The decrease in sex in your marriage might have something to do with the baby that was just born? Do you get up at night, feed the kid.. change diapers, give mom a break? She's probably not feeling very sexy right now, do you try to make her feel sexy? Lots of questions, don't know your whole story but I do know that you cheating won't fix anything. It doesn't sound like the lack of sex is because your wife is cheating on you, it sounds related to her being busy with a new baby.

You're already in excuse making mode.. looking for justifications.. Instead, focus this energy into communicating to your wife, and honestly.. tell her you're thinking of sex with other women, not because you want them over her, but because you feel she doesn't want you.. etc... etc... tell her, not message forums on the Internet, and don't tell another woman and think she understands you... She only understands, because she's not left in the dark like your wife.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> *If you are having marital issues...try to fix them...if you cant divorce.*


Exactly... plain and simple. This statement should be mandatory in the wedding ceremony. 

My wife said her cheating was like a _Band-Aid _on the issues she had with our marriage. All it did was cover them up (for a short time). When her 1st AP moved off, nothing had changed, no progress made, marriage busted apart, herself a confirmed adulterer... lost, broken.


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## TheRock (Jul 12, 2013)

yeah_right said:


> I haven't read your other threads but you have a 13 week baby and you're complaining about lack of sex already?
> 
> As the kids say, SMH...


This post is not about a lack of sex in my marriage..I didn't create this post to complain about my marriage. But to down play my concerns about "lack of sex already?" is very short cited. 

to expand on my background, my wife and went from daily to once every 2-3 months the day we got married. This was an extremely tough turn around for me and I ended up getting very resentful and angry and we were fighting almost daily. This forum helped me work through that and since then my wife and I are much more open about the issue. I have a much better understanding of her side and she mine. We have not had sex since well before our child was born and I promise you my wife would say no one is more understanding of the situation then I am. We talk a couple times a week about it and there is no resentment and no anger. So please don't say I am complaining.


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## DarkHoly (Dec 18, 2012)

TheRock said:


> Ok
> 
> So a little background info here. I am male late 20 married for just over 2 years, and have a little 13 week old girl. I love my wife and I have never and would like to think that I would never go down the road of cheating.
> 
> ...


So when did you meet your new tart?


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

RWB said:


> Exactly... plain and simple. This statement should be mandatory in the wedding ceremony.
> 
> My wife said her cheating was like a _Band-Aid _on the issues she had with our marriage. All it did was cover them up (for a short time). When her 1st AP moved off, nothing had changed, no progress made, marriage busted apart, herself a confirmed adulterer... lost, broken.


It's a band aid you put on yourself after you cut off your arm..


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Well, let's see here.... you joined TAM back in July of last year, when your wife was about 7 months pregnant. Now, if you had threads posted before, they were deleted, so no one gets your back story. If not, then all we can go by is what you have posted here. And, from the posts we CAN see, sex decreased during her pregnancy, and is still low now that you have a baby. Would that be a fair assessment? And you can "UNDERSTAND" why people cheat???? 

Ok, confess, who is she? Your coworker? A friend of a friend? In-law?


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Tbh, posting this in CWI is not the smartest move, Rock. These people, for the most part, are dealing with their spouses' betrayals. Posting something like "I can understand, can you?" in this forum merely rubs salt into that raw, open wound. Very bad form, Rock. Very bad.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Maricha75 said:


> Tbh, posting this in CWI is not the smartest move, Rock. These people, for the most part, are dealing with their spouses' betrayals. Posting something like "I can understand, can you?" in this forum merely rubs salt into that raw, open wound. Very bad form, Rock. Very bad.


He just wants us to give him permission to cheat on his newlywed wife and his newborn baby.. He's not rubbing salt in our wounds, just looking for permission to destroy a person that he took vows with. He can't ask her, because she'll say 'no, don't cheat on me please'.. and that'll ruin it.. kill off that new love feeling he has for ________.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

If you love your little girl like you say you do, then try everything to keep your family together. I spend every other Christmas without my son... and believe me, it isn't something that you ever get used to. It is painful to put a tree up every year, even though you know that you will not be celebrating together around it the morning after Santa has delivered the gifts in sparkling paper and bows. 

Do I understand what makes someone step out? Sure... cowardliness, selfishness, fear, poor coping skills... to name a few. 

The loss of trust that your wife will experience is beyond your comprehension. She gave you something that no one else has, a daughter. If you love your baby as much as you seem to, do right by her.


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## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

TheRock said:


> This post is not about a lack of sex in my marriage..I didn't create this post to complain about my marriage. But to down play my concerns about "lack of sex already?" is very short cited.
> 
> to expand on my background, my wife and went from daily to once every 2-3 months the day we got married. This was an extremely tough turn around for me and *I ended up getting very resentful *and angry and we were fighting almost daily. This forum helped me work through that and since then my wife and I are much more open about the issue. I have a much better understanding of her side and she mine. We have not had sex since well before our child was born and I promise you my wife would say no one is more understanding of the situation then I am. We talk a couple times a week about it and t*here is no resentment *and no anger. So please don't say I am complaining.


The fact that you posted here tells me that while you may not be technically complaining, you are still confused about your resentment. The sex concerns you enough to start a discussion on here. You need to be upfront with yourself before you can get through this with your wife.

Back to business...for now let's push aside sex. Your wife just expelled a human being from her guts and she had been pregnant for nine months before that. Beyond the birth itself, whether vaginal or C-section, you are dealing with dynamic changes to her body. So for nearly half of your entire marriage, she has either been pregnant or dealing with a newborn. It's a sad fact of life that sex sometimes takes a backseat to the immediate needs of keeping a newborn alive.

Are you giving her enough help with housework and child-rearing so she might have more energy to service you? Trust me, women find help from their H very sexy! 

Honestly, I just have a feeling that you are in contact with another woman. It may not have gone physical yet. You may tell yourself that she's "just a friend", but don't go there. It simply will not end well for anyone.

I know this is a tough time in life. My kids are grown and I can still remember the stress of when they were babies. But that's part of life. And mature adults learn to adapt and handle the stress for the good of the family unit. Good luck!


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## brokeneric (Jan 27, 2014)

Maricha75 said:


> In-law?


Making adultery family oriented, eh?.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> no one...and I mean NO ONE deserves to be CHEATED on...for ANY reason. PERIOD.
> 
> If you are having marital issues...try to fix them...if you cant divorce. But infidelity...is wrong on every level.


:iagree:

I "liked" it & because I can't put it any better. My response wouldn't be any different.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

I don't share that sentiment. Whether real or imagined, when one finds themself in a su*ky marriage there is always the choice to end the marriage. In our culture it is easy and does not carry the stigma that it once did. Going out and having an A or whatever reason is making a poor decision.

Taking your logic as you wrote above, what would prevent you from saying "I am beginning to understand why certain individuals".... Instead of saying step our on their marriage, say
1. Become an alcoholic.
2. Become herion user
3. Commit suicide
4. Become a murderer
5. Etc, etc, etc.

The poor bad spouse does not cause the other spouse to act out in an untoward manner, though we hear it quite a bit to explain a host of poor behviors and choices. Or I could say "the Devil made me do it". It is just a convienent way of excusing poor behavior. 

There are many examples (and research shows this) that people cheat even in good and great marriages.


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## TheRock (Jul 12, 2013)

Again reading more post this is not about marriage issues with my wife and I. Maybe I should have been more clear on this post. I was just trying to give people an idea of what brought me to this website.


This post was brought on by a friend of my wives who just told her that her husband has refused to have sex with her going on almost 5 years since before there second child was born. I guess she almost ended up having a PA and the guilt of the situation ended up almost putting her in the hospital. I felt horrible for her. It gave me a perspective of what someone in that situation might go through. She has had an emotionally vacant husband who refuses to work on the situation with her. She is terrified of breaking up her family and she hates the thought of ending her relationship with someone she loves. 

The reason that I mentioned the SIM threads is that this story of our friend is very close to many that you see in that thread. So I will stick to my guns that I don't condone cheating. Put any hypothetical in front of me that involves cheating and I will completely agree that it is wrong. But I don't think it is always so black and white that the person who cheats is completley evil


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

TheRock said:


> So I will stick to my guns that I don't condone cheating. Put any hypothetical in front of me that involves cheating and I will completely agree that it is wrong. But I don't think it is always so black and white that the person who cheats is completley evil


But this thought of being completely evil, is entirely different than your previous statement about them being justified. These are two completely and unrelated ideals at play. It seems you are changing your stance here about this??


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

In regards to your friend... is it understandable. I suppose so - but that mindset still coincides with the adjectives I posted above. 

But, if she loved her H enough that the guilt almost made her have a PA, then she is already "practicing" leaving her M by way of her emotions.

Leaving is a hard thing to do. I think most people stay because of all of he accompanying life changes that they don't want to deal with, than because of the love in the relationship.


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## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

Rock - Do you think your wife's friend would have been justified to cheat on her husband? Not talking about evil.

Would you say she had justification? Yes or no.

Would you tell her husband if she did cheat? 

Was her "almost PA" with you?


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Wow they must breed 'em different in SIM (I occasionally stray into the General Relationship or 2 Divorce forums but not other places). OK so what you are saying is that many people don't have the tools or wherewithal to deal with marital problems including lack of sex. I would agree with that but it takes an absence of morals and accompanying boundaries to cheat. As Mrs J Adams said it is wrong on many levels. The first prerequisite for cheating is not a bad marriage but rather a selfish disposition. This is followed by the ability to lie and deceive. Uncaring is a third (about anyone friends, family, children ...).

So while I know that you have seen some monster spouses there is still no reason for a person to cheat!


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

No excuses ever. Understand fine. Condone never.

And be careful, people who have spouses that are "understanding" of cheating, often cheat.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

TheRock said:


> I guess she almost ended up having a PA and the guilt of the situation ended up almost putting her in the hospital. I felt horrible for her.


Sexual or emotional neglect is certainly an unpleasant experience.



TheRock said:


> It gave me a perspective of what someone in that situation might go through. She has had an emotionally vacant husband who refuses to work on the situation with her.


Long standing even worse so...



TheRock said:


> She is terrified of breaking up her family and she hates the thought of ending her relationship with someone she loves.


Children would rather be FROM a broken home than LIVE in one.



TheRock said:


> The reason that I mentioned the SIM threads is that this story of our friend is very close to many that you see in that thread. So I will stick to my guns that I don't condone cheating. Put any hypothetical in front of me that involves cheating and I will completely agree that it is wrong. But I don't think it is always so black and white that the person who cheats is completley evil


Let's put right and wrong out of the discussion shall we...? Let's just weigh in on infidelity without morality factored into it : 

Infidelity just does not make any SENSE : 

a. wasted money
b. wasted time
c. wasted energy
d. creating a toxic home
e. creating gradual estrangement between husband and wife
f. compromising one's reputation
g. creating a breeding ground of suspicion and distrust
h. getting romantically/sexually involved with someone who clearly does not have your children or household stability in mind
i. risk of STD
j. risk of hooking up with someone dishonest or violent (let's be honest here, if they will cheat with you, what won't they do?)

Does inviting that into your home make an SENSE?

Factor out the morality of it.. just look at that quick list.

Does it make any *SENSE *to put a home through that?

Of course not.

a. file for divorce
b. divorce with respect to your spouse, honestly, and keeping their dignity in tact
c. a civil divorce means a low cost divorce relative to what happens when cheating is involved
d. keep the kids out of harms way
e. get the kids to a home that's warm, loving, and stable
f. keep third party predators who just want into your pants OUT of the family home

Come on.. doesn't that second list look a lot more SENSIBLE to you?

Sorry dude, but _cheating, from a COMMON SENSE perspective is VERY MUCH black and white_

Cheating is just STUPID. Financially, emotionally, practically, socially.. STUPID.

Never mind cheating being unethical. It's just STUPID.

IF your "friend" thinks she is going to cheat and not get caught.. she needs to smarten up. Cheaters almost ALWAYS get caught.

So, factor in the AFTERMATH and no, cheating is black and white. Cheating is just not a constructive response to your friends situation.

Infidelity is a destructive response to what may be legitimate issues in a marriage.

Infidelity just destroys years of work for nothing.

Divorce amicably, divorce without resentment, hostility, and deception.

Find someone new who wont' violate a marriage, that's better for YOU.

If your friend is miserable, and all avenues of rehabilitation have been explored, then divorce.

Cheating will do a lifetime's worth of damage and will BREAK UP the family ANYWAYS.

_Cheating does NOT solve emotional/sexual disconnects while keeping a family in tact.
_
_Cheating just forestalls and aggravates the fracture of a family.
_

_The way to keep a family in tact, and improve your sex or romantic life is to WORK on it *with* your spouse, not *WITHOUT* your spouse.
_

_This is ALL without even considering the ethical ramifications...
_


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

illwill said:


> No excuses ever. Understand fine. Condone never.
> 
> And be careful, people who have spouses that are "understanding" of cheating, often cheat.


Given the senselessness of it, and the risk of people misinterpreting "understand" as a stamp of approval I can't even say I understand.

Logically, I gather that some people are just so messed up they can't be bothered to come up with more constructive solutions to their problems, but that's as far as it goes.

Yes, there are psychological explanations as to why seriously messed up people make the senseless choice to cheat. But as a rational adult no, i can't understand why anyone would make this choice.

Infidelity makes about as much sense as setting your house on fire.

And I certainly can't understand why anyone would want to do that.

For insurance money? Same warning : insurance scams rarely cache out for you. It's reckless and stupid. And in most cases will be very costly.

Infidelity is just stupid. Infidelity is as stupid as injecting yourself with an STD/virus.

It makes no sense whatsoever.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

TheRock said:


> The reason that I mentioned the SIM threads is that this story of our friend is very close to many that you see in that thread. So I will stick to my guns that I don't condone cheating. Put any hypothetical in front of me that involves cheating and I will completely agree that it is wrong. But I don't think it is always so black and white that the person who cheats is completley evil


Rock, you're changing it up a bit here. Your original premise was that in some situations a cheater might not be blamed for doing so. This implies that in those situations it is not necessarily wrong. Now you're introducing the concept of "completely evil." You moved the goalposts. Someone (say, a cheater) can be completely wrong without being completely evil.


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## JustGrinding (Oct 26, 2012)

Let me preface this by stating that I in no way, shape, or form condone murder, torture, or actual disembowelment. 

But after becoming acquainted with some of the people I've been most unfortunate to have met, I understand why certain people should be gutted like a fish. I also find myself saying that I wouldn't blame others for choosing to gut them like a fish. I wouldn't necessarily agree with it, but I certainly wouldn't blame them for it. 

I wonder if anyone else shares that sentiment :scratchhead:


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

Wow so many people lashing against the OP and sincerely think that his post was misunderstood.

I Began to lurk in CWI forums 7 years ago to understand how is that infidelity happens, and I think that is what the OP is trying to say that he can understand some of this people that decided to cheat, but understanding is not the same as condoning, accepting, allowing, or approving infidelity. for example:

there is woman whose husband is verbally abusive, he never have any Kind of attention to her, they sleep in different rooms in the house, he refuses MC, he spends all his spare time with friends and drinking, they rarely have sex anymore maybe once every 2 or 3 months, and when the wife tries to speak about their problems to improve their marriage he just rejects the idea and he tell her that she have no other options but to endure it.

(I understand why this woman cheated when another man began to meet her needs, I understand how she took that dreadful decission, I don't condone it, aprove it or accept it, but I understand how she reached her breaking point).

like I said, understanding does not mean accepting, she could have divorced. Infidelity not just affect the husband that from now on will carry a permanent emotional scar but also affects their kids, other family, friends and even laboral life.

Understanding is importnat because if we understand the set of mind in this people then we can avoid and prevent to fall in those situations. (still there is people who is plain selfish and it does not matter we understando ot not, serial cheaters are not worth the effort bur I mean mostly the cases that could have been prevented).


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

manticore said:


> (I understand why this woman cheated when another man began to meet her needs, I understand how she took that dreadful decission, I don't condone it, aprove it or accept it, but I understand how she reached her breaking point).


OP said he would not blame people for cheating in certain situations (i.e. in those situations it would not be wrong). If someone did something that you can neither condone, approve nor accept, are you saying that you can nevertheless not blame them?


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Allen_A said:


> Sorry dude, but _cheating, from a COMMON SENSE perspective is VERY MUCH black and white_


Please... no mobs or pitchforks, but I disagree. From a BH standpoint who is in R with a SA WW. There is no black/white except at the extreme ends of the spectrum of possibility. A infinite amount of color and tone fall in-between; black being the absence and white being the combination of all colors combined. Life is sort of like that.

The only ALWAYS is that “things are going to change rapidly.” For better or worse, only time will tell. You simply can not control the outcome or someone else’s changes. Affairs are a catylst for change.

Go ahead and read my story. Now imagine someone ‘good and loving’ came into my life before my WW started being remorseful. (False R, 18m TT, unremorseful, 6 OM, 1 OW over a 6 year period as well as emotional abuse regularly) Don’t know how that would have played out, but I can assure you sparing my WW hurt and pain wouldn’t have been a ethical or moral dilemma. I probably would have welcomed it with all my heart. Just to feel loved again.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

TheRock said:


> I will preface what I am about to say by stating that I in no way shape or form condone cheating.


Fine line between understanding and condoning.




> But after reading some of the threads in CWI & SIM I am begining to understand why certain individuals step out on there marriage


So if you understand why because of things like lack of sex, etc, then maybe you can explain why I did not step out on my marriage when I was neglected big time?

If you understand and have an explanation why some did step out, then surely you'd have one for those that didn't who suffered neglect as well?


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Let me put it this way.

Two people in similar circumstances. Both, for example, are turned down for sex and basically go without in the marriage.

One cheats.

One doesn't.

What is the difference between the 2 people?


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## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

vellocet said:


> Let me put it this way.
> 
> Two people in similar circumstances. Both, for example, are turned down for sex and basically go without in the marriage.
> 
> ...



Character


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Racer said:


> From a BH standpoint who is in R with a SA WW. There is no black/white except at the extreme ends of the spectrum of possibility... Life is sort of like that.


Uh no. People MAKE infidelity like that by

a. distorting the truth
b. blame-shifting
c. deflection
d. dismissing critical variables like children, finances, and oh ya.. ethics



Racer said:


> The only ALWAYS is that “things are going to change rapidly.” For better or worse, only time will tell. You simply can not control the outcome or someone else’s changes. Affairs are a catylst for change.


Uh no. People are catalysts for change. And it can change for the better OR the worse.

Affairs never improve things. If improvement follows infidelity that improvement is not because of infidelity but despite it.



Racer said:


> Now imagine someone ‘good and loving’ came into my life before my WW started being remorseful. (False R, 18m TT, unremorseful, 6 OM, 1 OW over a 6 year period as well as emotional abuse regularly)


I really don't care if your spouse sets you on FIRE. There is no sensible reason to cheat. The long term ramifications render that a destructive option in ANY case you can come up with.

Sorry, but "good and loving" people don't 

a. violate marriages
b. disrespect marital partners left OUT of the loop
c. interlope into marital conflicts
d. compromise people's integrity
e. behave dishonestly towards people who have done nothing to harm them.

Sorry, your "warm and loving" perception of affair partner's is rather skewed.

Affair partner's are not warm and loving. They are interlopers who ought to be prosecuted.



Racer said:


> Don’t know how that would have played out, but I can assure you sparing my WW hurt and pain wouldn’t have been a ethical or moral dilemma. I probably would have welcomed it with all my heart. Just to feel loved again.


Good grief. _You do NOT spare spouses hurt and pain by cheating on them_. All you do is ADD to the hurt and pain. Why can't cheaters get that through their head???

_Cheating does not spare pain; cheating creates pain.
_

The explanations you listed are all _classic wayward excuses for cheating_ : 

a. I didn't' want to hurt anyone
b. I was lonely
c. I didn't know what else to do
d. I wanted to feel loved again

Sorry, but this is all just BS.

The real irony is how cheaters all complain about being lonely, being rejected, feeling unloved. And their briliant solution to this is to do the same to their spouse!

It never seems to occur to cheaters that cheating creates

a. hurt
b. loneliness
c. desperation
d. lovelessness

In the BETRAYED spouse. So all cheating does is make ONE person feel better at the EXPENSE of the OTHER.

There is no practical reason, or sensible reason to cheat.

Sorry.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

yeah_right said:


> Character


Bingo.

As far as the premise of this thread, I was neglected in my marriage. Did I cheat? No. I thought to myself this is part of raising a family, obligations need to be met and mother/father roles took over.
Didn't stop me from trying to initiate affection, but after being neglected, I just found other things to occupy my time, but still tried to maintain that affection to no avail.

So no, I'll never understand "why" anyone cheats and I don't care for their flimsy excuses.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Let's look at the most extreme case Racer : violence.

I am a single third party. I find out some woman I find attractive is married to an abusive, neglectful, violent man. I know this for a fact. I witness the atrocities.

Does it make one iota of sense of me to 

a. interlope into their marriage
b. persuade her that I am a better option
c. have sex with her in secret
d. lie left and right to sustain infidelity as long as possible

Of course not.

Why? Because while I am getting laid, this female is burdened with not one but two men to baby sit.

And when she gets found out.. and she WILL get found out eventually.. she will get BEATEN.

He will beat her worse than before.

All I would be doing is putting HER welfare at risk, for MY gain. In short, I would be USING her. This does not improve her situation.

And I would argue it would not even improve mine. If he finds out about me, my welfare is at risk as well.

It's just stupid. There is no grey area here. Sorry.

And that is what infidelity does : 

Rather than diffusing a toxic situation, infidelity escalates the situation beyond control.

That is why infidelity is never a viable solution to ANY situation.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Allen_A said:


> Good grief. _You do NOT spare spouses hurt and pain by cheating on them_. All you do is ADD to the hurt and pain. Why can't cheaters get that through their head???


You misread that one... One reason not to cheat is so you don't hurt your spouse. After so much of my own hurt inflicted by her, her going through pain and hurt because I might cheat wasn't a 'bad thought'. It was actually kind of a nice warm fantasy. 

Please remember she wasn't remorseful for a good 18 months after DD. It was the old "just get over it already" and even rubbing it in when she got really mad (penis size, sexual ability, what a loser I was, etc.). Oh geez, and let’s not forget telling her friends I was going to kill her and telling me she’d off herself if I wouldn’t ‘stop bringing it up’ (which was also a bunch of fabricated lies, hence why I couldn’t accept it and had to keep asking). I had to keep an alibi log in case she went through with it.. What fun! Nasty, nasty stuff. So yes, “loving and caring” AP wouldn’t have even been a pre-requisite... I just needed someone nice who’d give me shoulder to cry on back then. And I would have given up my soul for that just to escape the nearly unbearable hurt, pain, and confusion I was in. 

So.... Seeing grey yet? Can you at least understand how long term that can cause a lot of issues in my head so ‘right and wrong’ are seriously blurry lines and just different perceptions? 

And please, please keep in mind that I did not cheat. I believe I have every reason and justification to do so, yet I choose not to. It is a choice. Even after all that, she can’t “make me” have an affair. I have to want it. 

What it doesn’t mean is I can’t understand and sympathize with those that did in situations like mine and why they’d make another choice. How I survived is both a point of pride and of shame. I just learned that you can feel opposite emotions at the same time and be alright with it (or at least accept the insanity). You don’t have to act on either emotion.. You simply choose to act on whatever you feel you want it to go.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Racer said:


> I just needed someone nice who’d give me shoulder to cry on back then. And I would have given up my soul for that just to escape the nearly unbearable hurt, pain, and confusion I was in.
> 
> So.... Seeing grey yet?


Nope.

Never mind your wife, why bring a third party into that mess? Why make friends and family uncomfortable? Why create all that pain all around you, just so YOU can feel better in the moment? It's not practical, sorry. It's just short-sighted and selfish beyond words.

You keep ignoring the FALL OUT. You just focus on how YOU FELT at the TIME.

Sorry, but any half way mature adult will weigh the fall out in and then your excuses are just that.. excuses.

I get that you felt awful. I hear you. But infidelity is not a constructive solution. You seem to think that because you felt worthless, that infidelity is a reasonable alternative. It's not.

How you feel is important. But choosing a constructive remedy for that is just as important : and cheating ain't a constructive solution. Neither is : 

Drugs
Alcohol
Gambling
Maxing out credit cards
Violence
(Cheating)

These are all self-destructive and socially destructive coping mechanisms. You could just as easily insert one of these into your argument instead of infidelity. They all have serious long term consequences that have been researched to death.. literally.

There are better choices : 

Take yoga
Learn to meditate
Start exercising
Improve your diet
Do some volunteer work
DIVORCE

Heck, just CALL a MARRIAGE-FRIENDLY friend to keep you off the ledge.

Any of those is constructive.

Infidelity (weighing in the fall-out) is not constructive.


No grey areas here, sorry. No sale.



Racer said:


> Can you at least understand how long term that can cause a lot of issues in my head so ‘right and wrong’ are seriously blurry lines and just different perceptions?


I understand how people in pain have trouble thinking straight. _This does not in any way shape or circumstance make the situation grey_. What you are doing is suggesting the following : 

Because I can't think straight, infidelity is an understandable response.

No.

What this means, is you determine the viability or merit of a response based on how clear-headed the agent is.

That's ridiculous. That would allow people who are drunk to get away with all kinds of offenses.

No grey circumstances, just your clouded judgement.



Racer said:


> And please, please keep in mind that I did not cheat. I believe I have every reason and justification to do so, yet I choose not to. It is a choice. Even after all that, she can’t “make me” have an affair. I have to want it.


Yup, she can't make you. So there's no grey area here to speak of, sorry. 



Racer said:


> What it doesn’t mean is I can’t understand and sympathize with those that did in situations like mine and why they’d make another choice.


I understand drunk people make mistakes. I understand people high on drugs make mistakes. You can argue diminished capacity all you like... it won't get you any grey areas.

I offer zero sympathy, and zero leeway for diminished capacity simply because someone was feeling miserable.

I know people with bi-polar disorder who are suicidal on bad days... they still get through them. They find something healthy to do, and they get through it.

Heck, I could just as easily argue that because of diminished capacity you ought to be extra cautious and do everything you can to avoid impulse.

People who go out drinking get designated drivers when they are sober. This is no different. If you can't handle the heat, then you call someone who can help you out of that. You call someone to help without compromising the situation or aggravating things beyond measure.

I get you need help, but if you can put the time into a phone call or a chat window, you can put the time into a healthy long term constructive conversation rather than reckless sex with someone who clearly does not give a rats arse about you or your kids.

_Resorting to sex with a third party in secret is akin to asking someone three sheets to the wind to drive you home because you can't walk a straight line.
_

It's just ridiculously impractical.

You call a damn taxi or walk home.

Inviting a third party to have an affair with you is akin to asking a drunk person to drive you home, while calling a taxi is akin to calling a marriage-friendly family member.

The decision is obvious there, not grey at all.



Racer said:


> How I survived is both a point of pride and of shame. I just learned that you can feel opposite emotions at the same time and be alright with it (or at least accept the insanity). You don’t have to act on either emotion.. You simply choose to act on whatever you feel you want it to go.


Just because you are "alright with it" does not in any way change the nature of the circumstances themselves.

Sorry, zero grey areas here, just an argument for diminished capacity.

I don't buy it.


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

If one can justify cheating, one can justify leaving. Leaving hurts but cheating hurts much worse, even if you stay but especially if that's how you leave.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Two wrongs don't make it right.
Once you lose your honer it takes time to get it back and in the eyes of others one may never get it back.

With that said, it takes a lot of work to be a honorable person.

After all of it I'm amazed me and the old lady are still together. Hell we should have left each other years ago when the physical abuse and the adultery all started.

We'r both glad those days are long gone!!


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## TheRock (Jul 12, 2013)

manticore said:


> Wow so many people lashing against the OP and sincerely think that his post was misunderstood.
> 
> I Began to lurk in CWI forums 7 years ago to understand how is that infidelity happens, and I think that is what the OP is trying to say that he can understand some of this people that decided to cheat, but understanding is not the same as condoning, accepting, allowing, or approving infidelity. for example:


I am not surprised by the "lashing out" def a sensitive and personal subject for many people on here... I don't blame anyone for lashing out at me. But I can ensure my intention was not to rub salt in anyone's wounds. I do sincerely apologize to anyone that was offended or took what I said personal. Although I don't think I deserve a few of the comments especially private messages calling me terrible father and husband. Especially considering the intent of my participation in this forum is to be a better husband and father to my family. 

I lurk here for the very same reasons as yours. To understand infidelity. I want to ensure that I do not end up on either side of a heartbreaking situation. 

I think people misinterpreted my thoughts as saying cheaters were justified. That is not what I was trying to convey. I was simply saying that in certain situations I would be understanding of the individual. 

Someone responded with something along the lines of "with that idea of thinking you could sub cheating with any of the following things.

-Alcoholism
-Drug addicting

My thought is DAMN right! In some situations I would treat these as very simular. 

These things are both equally destructive to any relationship or family but I think that a large majority of people here would respond in a much different way if someone they knew was an alcoholic vs someone that was cheating 

Example 
If my best friend came up to me and confided in me that they were having troubles with drinking or drug addiction. I would NEVER ever condone these actions or brush them off and let him continue with a blind eye. Would I be understanding though.... would I take the time to look at the situation and try and see why they got themselves in this situation. Absolutely I would. Would having a understanding of why they do what they do help me help them. YES

This is a real situation in my life. Best friend ended up in a destructive life style of drinking and doing drugs. This was the result of PTSD and 15 years of service in some of the most terrible situations imaginable. So yeah I was understanding... I would questions anyone "Character" that would react in a different way. 

Switch that in with the friend of my wife's and her almost PA. If she came over and told us that she had actually gone through with the affair I would certainly have treated it the same as my friend who served in the army. I would not condone what she did or tell her that she was justified. But I would have certainly been understanding of how she ended up in here situation. I would tell her it could not continue and that she needed to either seek to fix the problem or get away from the problem marriage. I would not consider her to be a bad person. Or call her a villian.


Maybe this will clarify my thought process a little. Then again I am sure a few individuals (you know who you are) will take what I say and turn it around as my intent to justify cheating so that I can do it guilt free.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Some other practical reasons for not cheating:

1. You may hookup with someone psycho. Remember the films "Play Misty for Me" and "Fatal Attraction."

2. Even if your AP is not totally psycho, they may f*ck with you and tease you or even go all the way to exposing the affair. If you're not ready to leave at the point, it won't be comfortable.

3. Can you really feel comfortable that your AP is faithful to you or at the very least, faithful to you and her spouse.

4. Even if you find someone who is not psycho, in the least, your wanting "to care" for another person is going to emerge and that's going to affect your marriage.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Yes Rock, in many cases infidelity can be a case of someone in self destruct mode... clearly this is not every case.

That being said, the risk of someone confusing "understanding" with "condoning" is far too high.

If any friend of mine approches me explaining they are cheating, and I can say with confidence they are in self destruct mode, I will not offer them any "understanding."

Waywards take any scrap you offer them as support.

_You don't want that happening by accident_.

The only way to respond to a cheating wayward is with 100% disapproval for their destructive behavior.

That is the difference here, is that people taking drugs or drinking to excess know what they are doing is destructive. They may not admit it, but they know.

With infidelity, there is this ridiculous portrayal of "love gone wrong" or "tragic romance" you have to contend with.

Far too much material in the media just romanticizes infidelity. You don't want the wayward misconstruing your "understanding."

Alcoholism and drug addiction are almost never romanticized these days.. it's 100% criticism.

So, in that respect, you can't give a cheating wayward an inch of "understanding" or they take a mile of "you go girl".


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Allen_A said:


> That is the difference here, is that people taking drugs or drinking to excess know what they are doing is destructive. They may not admit it, but they know.


Totally disagree with you there. Why do you think the typical wayward hides it and lies about it? Oh yes, because they know it is very wrong. Don’t fool yourself. They aren’t stupid. There was no body-snatcher, clone, or alien abduction or mind-control of your spouse: They considered, and made a deliberate choice they knew was wrong and would hurt you and the marriage. Everything else was damage control.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Racer said:


> Totally disagree with you there. Why do you think the typical wayward hides it and lies about it? Oh yes, because they know it is very wrong. Don’t fool yourself. They aren’t stupid. There was no body-snatcher, clone, or alien abduction or mind-control of your spouse: They considered, and made a deliberate choice they knew was wrong and would hurt you and the marriage. Everything else was damage control.


No. I honestly don't think they believe what they are doing is wrong. Most of them don't.

The media romanticizes infidelity too often. This lets waywards off the hook. Far too much cheer leading out there for cheating as a solution to relationship downturns. Heck the film Titanic (1999) has most likely created a whole generation of men thinking they are Leonardo DiCaprio and women thinking they are Kate Winslet. Tragic romance. You will see the impact of that in another ten years or so I'd imagine once the teens watching that film in 1999 grow into adults with children and mortgages.

I do suspect most don't think what they are doing is "wrong." I think they have the misconstrued idea in their heads that : 

a. people just don't understand what i am going through
b. people are too judgmental
c. people need to embrace the modern world
d. people need to mind their own business

etc..

I honestly do believe most (51%) of waywards actually believe this nonsense that runs through their heads while cheating.

Heck, we have had waywards on this forum fresh from an affair spewing this nonsense.

Cheaters don't lie to spare their guilty conscience. Most lie to bypass interference. Sorry, but most (in my opinion) cheaters don't lie because they are committing a moral offense. Sorry, that's far fetched in my opinion. They just don't want to be interrupted.

I don't think alcoholics or drug addicts have this sort of problem nearly as often. There is way too much of a media assault on drinking and drug use these days.

Our culture drives our thought processes. And infidelity is not regarded as that serious an offense relative to drinking or drugs. Not by a long shot.

Far too many movies and novels out there still romanticize cheating or shrug it off. Heck we have even had reports recently on this forum of posters who went to therapy and were told cheating is a marital issue and the responsibility of the aftermath is shared with wayward and betrayed. Even therapists are still pushing that nonsense.

You think any therapist these days tells an alcoholic their drinking is their spouse's fault? Not likely very many.

Even drinking and drug use was shrugged off generations ago.

That was the case with drinking and even drugs a long time ago.

Not so much now.

Infidelity will need many more years before that gets the same kind of exposure.


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