# Doing too much Vs Serving your wife



## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Not sure if this is a rant, venting, or legitimate questions. But it helped writing it.

I’m conflicted lately. A year ago I was a doormat. Covert contracts, not sticking up for my needs, accepting disrespectful talk, the whole 9 yards.

I feel like my energy is much more focused now. I find specific ways to meet my wife’s love languages, and I do it much more willingly. That being said, I feel like she is really stalling, regressing more likely, back into old habits. The physical affection is less, she is less appreciative, more critical, more spoiled, than she has been recently. She’s made some big efforts in certain areas, but over the last few weeks I’ve been telling her, “Hey, I feel like my needs aren’t being met and I’m not happy with our marriage right now.”

She is really sensitive, and instead of getting empathy, she gets really defensive about this and tells me that I’m attacking her. I’m working on staying calm, yesterday I think I played it exactly right. I told her that I was becoming less interested in meeting her needs, and really felt unloved. She started yelling and accusing me of attacking her, she started making snappy and ridiculing comments. I just sat there very calm and told her that her tone and words were unnecessary, and that my intention was not to criticize her or make her feel like a bad person, just sharing my thoughts and feelings. I get the feeling that she has been manipulating me so long that now that she is not able to use this tactic anymore, she is lashing out at me.

So here Is my question. I feel honestly that the role of the man in a marriage is to serve his wife. To put her needs before his. And that love is sacrificial and we need to not be selfish when giving. However, I’ve also realized from being here that constantly giving and not receiving the affirmation and affection back from my wife is not healthy. So what I want to know is, how do I separate doing too much vs serving sacrificially? If I start acting more selfishly and pulling back from my wife as she is not meeting my needs, how do I reconcile that with serving her? At what point is the “duty” more important than the motive? For instance, one of the things that makes her feel appreciated is when I do the dishes. I’ve committed to doing this. I do it to show love for her. But if I'm not feeling loved in return, at what point do I stop?

For the last few weeks I’ve been just pushing through. Our last counselor told me to just buckle up and do what I knew my wife needed without expecting anything in return. I’ve been doing that, no pressure for her to return anything, no expectation of return. Now I’m kind of bitter because I didn’t really get anything from that, even though I stepped up my game, her actions didn’t change. So why should I continue to put forth effort if I get no results? My motivation and inspiration is dwindling and I’m really second guessing my marriage.

I KNOW it could be an awesome marriage, I’ve seen glimpses of it, but lately I realize that net net, she makes me feel worse than better. I really want to be married to someone that brings out the best in me, and that wants to respond to me like I do. I want to be the most amazing husband to my wife, and have her respond in return. What I find is that my wife is more interested in her personal hang-ups than helping me feel loved and appreciated.

I get the sense that she will continue acting this way, until we separate. At that time I will be uninterested in reconciling, and then she will realize what a huge idiot she’s been and beg to have me back. By that time I’ll have withdrawn and seen our relationship for what it is, not healthy.

On the positive side, I am able to 100% separate the infidelity from my thoughts on the marriage. I’ve come to peace with what happened, and I honestly don’t feel like it’s affecting my decision at all. So if someone were to ask me why we were splitting, I could honestly say it would not be because of the cheating.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Is she seeing a counselor? Have you voiced these feelings to your own counselor? If so.. what did he/she suggest? Oh and as far as marriage goes... imo BOTH parties will need to comprimise, make sacrifices, ect not just one and no one should be the others servant imo.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

COguy said:


> So here Is my question. I feel honestly that the role of the man in a marriage is to serve his wife. To put her needs before his. And that love is sacrificial and we need to not be selfish when giving. However, I’ve also realized from being here that constantly giving and not receiving the affirmation and affection back from my wife is not healthy. So what I want to know is, how do I separate doing too much vs serving sacrificially? If I start acting more selfishly and pulling back from my wife as she is not meeting my needs, how do I reconcile that with serving her? At what point is the “duty” more important than the motive? For instance, one of the things that makes her feel appreciated is when I do the dishes. I’ve committed to doing this. I do it to show love for her. But if I'm not feeling loved in return, at what point do I stop?


I think being sacrificial works if both spouses are doing it, but it breaks down when it is one sided. Marriage is a partnership. Both sides need to pull their weight. Over the course of the marriage, it should fairly equal, with both sides recognizing it will be unequal at different times and for different reasons.

When one side is not pulling their weight, you get resentment. Sounds like this is what is starting to happen to you. Pulling back to detach a bit (tunring down the thermostat) can be helpful to get yourself right, as well as reduce resentment. Hopefully, it also gets her attention.



> For the last few weeks I’ve been just pushing through. Our last counselor told me to just buckle up and do what I knew my wife needed without expecting anything in return. I’ve been doing that, no pressure for her to return anything, no expectation of return. Now I’m kind of bitter because I didn’t really get anything from that, even though I stepped up my game, her actions didn’t change. So why should I continue to put forth effort if I get no results? My motivation and inspiration is dwindling and I’m really second guessing my marriage.


Pushing through in the short term may be correct. But at some point, if she is not doing her part, she is telling you something. Aligning your actions with your words may be needed to fully communicate your point.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> Pushing through in the short term may be correct. But at some point, if she is not doing her part, she is telling you something. Aligning your actions with your words may be needed to fully communicate your point.


This. :iagree:

Treating her lovingly and with respect is also serving her. If you can manage to pull back and still do these things, you're still doing your part. She sounds like she's lost her motivation to continue to meet your needs. And her defensiveness when you point it out to her is just a form of guilt. Maybe she knows she really has no good reason for it.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

COguy said:


> For the last few weeks I’ve been just pushing through. Our last counselor told me to just buckle up and do what I knew my wife needed without expecting anything in return. I’ve been doing that, no pressure for her to return anything, no expectation of return. Now I’m kind of bitter because I didn’t really get anything from that, even though I stepped up my game, her actions didn’t change. So why should I continue to put forth effort if I get no results? My motivation and inspiration is dwindling and I’m really second guessing my marriage.


To me it sounds like you have a long way to go to give without expecting anything in return.

Stop doing thing sacrificially - the whole lesson of NMMNG is to stop it with the covert contracts. I suggested in another thread to stop worrying about being a better husband just be a better man, and after reading this thread I am even more convinced that is the case for you.

When you do the dishes, do it because YOU want them clean.

Stop telling her you feel like your needs aren't being met, instead when you have a specific need tell her what it is. Meanwhile find ways to meet those specific needs by yourself and show her that if she is not going to meet those needs she is of less value to you, and if she is less value to you start to realize that maybe you shouldn't treat her of higher value - ie take her off her pedestal.

It may sound like this will push her away, but the thing is if she doesn't want to be there, there is nothing you can do to change her. You can't manipulate her, and you can't control what she wants so seriously stop trying this - learning her love languages isn't so you can reel her back to you, its so you spend your effort on things that matter. If you are meeting her needs and giving her love in the way that she can accept, and she still doesn't want to be there to meet your needs, let her go, it will be her loss not yours. My point is you are still completely focussed on her while you need to be completely focussed on you.

If you need to withdraw, then you need to withdraw - it seems fear is really holding you back from letting go though, you are trying to imagine something exists that doesn't currently exist. I know it is hard, this is how I felt at the end of my marriage - in a way I'm grateful that she was adamant about leaving, because I don't think I would have had the strength to be the one to let go first.


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

I think the answer to this question depends on how much you've neglected your wife's needs over the course of your relationship. Also, understanding the origin of her defensiveness is the key to figuring this out. If you were a true doormat then you've probably put in years of service and you have the right to feel mistreated. If your wife is defensive because you've been attacking her for years then you need to own it. Her feelings won't magically go away and could take years to reverse if she feels legitimately attacked. If she has some deep rooted insecurities and is defensive no matter what you do then IMO your only option is to back off and start considering your options. Sometimes a person can have issues and their spouse can unknowingly trigger them with seemingly normal behavior. The spouse that does the triggering usually gets the blame. 

I've been around a couple doormat husbands who finally woke up or got dumped. During and after the breakup the dominant wife always blamed everything on the husband. Two of my wive's former friends would constantly insult their ex's manhood. They accepted no blame for the breakups and would insist their husbands were just weak men. The real interesting thing is that none of these women ended up in good relationships after divorcing. I think most mature men would see them coming from a mile away. One of these women would hit on me in front of my wife. One of them was kicked out of her fitness club because she was harassing her younger training. I think they are female bullies.

Eventually the doormat husbands got their confidence back and found some nice women. It took a year or two but they all ended up in loving relationships. To this day the women are still alone and wondering why they can't find a "nice man" or even just get laid on a regular basis.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Co,
It sounds as if the consequence to your wife of throwing a tantrum and getting hyper aggressive with you is: you patiently defuse her and keep explaining why you are not in the wrong.

Simple sanity check. If you videotaped one of those conflicts without her knowing and then threatened to send it to your friends and family,
How would she react. Clearly I am NoT suggesting doing that. I am saying that your response enables behavior that she knows is way way wrong. 

Stop talking about how you feel. Keep doing the dishes as that is a petty vehicle for a marriage crushing conflict. 

Start cutting way back on all the verbal and non verbal love and approval you give her. Don't give her "resentment" just start cranking up your actvities and reducing time, money and love flowing her way. I repeat this story fairly often as it reflects our marr


TE=COguy;723330]Not sure if this is a rant, venting, or legitimate questions. But it helped writing it.

I’m conflicted lately. A year ago I was a doormat. Covert contracts, not sticking up for my needs, accepting disrespectful talk, the whole 9 yards.

I feel like my energy is much more focused now. I find specific ways to meet my wife’s love languages, and I do it much more willingly. That being said, I feel like she is really stalling, regressing more likely, back into old habits. The physical affection is less, she is less appreciative, more critical, more spoiled, than she has been recently. She’s made some big efforts in certain areas, but over the last few weeks I’ve been telling her, “Hey, I feel like my needs aren’t being met and I’m not happy with our marriage right now.”

She is really sensitive, and instead of getting empathy, she gets really defensive about this and tells me that I’m attacking her. I’m working on staying calm, yesterday I think I played it exactly right. I told her that I was becoming less interested in meeting her needs, and really felt unloved. She started yelling and accusing me of attacking her, she started making snappy and ridiculing comments. I just sat there very calm and told her that her tone and words were unnecessary, and that my intention was not to criticize her or make her feel like a bad person, just sharing my thoughts and feelings. I get the feeling that she has been manipulating me so long that now that she is not able to use this tactic anymore, she is lashing out at me.

So here Is my question. I feel honestly that the role of the man in a marriage is to serve his wife. To put her needs before his. And that love is sacrificial and we need to not be selfish when giving. However, I’ve also realized from being here that constantly giving and not receiving the affirmation and affection back from my wife is not healthy. So what I want to know is, how do I separate doing too much vs serving sacrificially? If I start acting more selfishly and pulling back from my wife as she is not meeting my needs, how do I reconcile that with serving her? At what point is the “duty” more important than the motive? For instance, one of the things that makes her feel appreciated is when I do the dishes. I’ve committed to doing this. I do it to show love for her. But if I'm not feeling loved in return, at what point do I stop?

For the last few weeks I’ve been just pushing through. Our last counselor told me to just buckle up and do what I knew my wife needed without expecting anything in return. I’ve been doing that, no pressure for her to return anything, no expectation of return. Now I’m kind of bitter because I didn’t really get anything from that, even though I stepped up my game, her actions didn’t change. So why should I continue to put forth effort if I get no results? My motivation and inspiration is dwindling and I’m really second guessing my marriage.

I KNOW it could be an awesome marriage, I’ve seen glimpses of it, but lately I realize that net net, she makes me feel worse than better. I really want to be married to someone that brings out the best in me, and that wants to respond to me like I do. I want to be the most amazing husband to my wife, and have her respond in return. What I find is that my wife is more interested in her personal hang-ups than helping me feel loved and appreciated.

I get the sense that she will continue acting this way, until we separate. At that time I will be uninterested in reconciling, and then she will realize what a huge idiot she’s been and beg to have me back. By that time I’ll have withdrawn and seen our relationship for what it is, not healthy.

On the positive side, I am able to 100% separate the infidelity from my thoughts on the marriage. I’ve come to peace with what happened, and I honestly don’t feel like it’s affecting my decision at all. So if someone were to ask me why we were splitting, I could honestly say it would not be because of the cheating.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

The key to this is watch for mood shifts. Your body will tell you what you want to do and what you feel resentment for doing.

Practice NOT doing so much. Say no when you want to say no. Do things you want to do. Do not do anything (including the dishes) unless you can do so without feeling resentment.

Relationships are two way streets and it never ever works when one is doing all the work getting their needs met but giving nothing back in return.

Your feelings are justified and you know what you need to do.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> Co,
> It sounds as if the consequence to your wife of throwing a tantrum and getting hyper aggressive with you is: you patiently defuse her and keep explaining why you are not in the wrong.
> 
> Simple sanity check. If you videotaped one of those conflicts without her knowing and then threatened to send it to your friends and family,
> ...


Can you rephrase that? I don't think I understand.

You're saying that responding calmly without emotion is enabling behavior? How so?

I am trying to go out and do more stuff, give her less affection (I'm getting less interested in it anyway). But it is insanely difficult for me to do this without appearing to give "the silent treatment". I mean yesterday I was eating cereal and she came right up to me and asked me what's wrong and why I was mad at her. It's like she can sense that I'm annoyed at the relationship, even if I'm just sitting there involved in something.

So I tell her honestly what I'm feeling because I don't want to be non-confrontational about it. One of the things I promised myself after the affair is that I'm not going to be silent about my feelings. If something is bothering me, I will let her know.

Another question, what is the likelihood, that after I pull back that she turns it around and starts acting more lovingly? I know she WANTS to be a good wife. How would doing this have any chance at saving the marriage long term?


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

COguy said:


> she came right up to me and asked me what's wrong and why I was mad at her. It's like she can sense that I'm annoyed at the relationship, even if I'm just sitting there involved in something.
> 
> So I tell her honestly what I'm feeling because I don't want to be non-confrontational about it. One of the things I promised myself after the affair is that I'm not going to be silent about my feelings. If something is bothering me, I will let her know.


It's okay to be annoyed with your wife. You know that right?

So be truthful and tell her what's wrong and then continue to be annoyed while protecting your sense of self.

The silent treatment means you aren't honest with her. Don't do that. Speak up but do it calmly but firmly. You can do this without being confrontational.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

COGuy,

I'm going to go "off the reservation" a bit here and suggest something a bit different.

Choose to be happy.

By doing that, you'll disarm her.

How can you choose to be happy?

It's actually easier than it sounds.

Give pleasure to yourself by pursuing and doing things you enjoy.

Giving pleasure to others by doing things for them that make you feel GOOD about yourself.

Eliminate activities that give pleasure to others that make you feel bad about yourself.

Anything you do that has an expectation attached to it? Hit the pause button and then do not do it. You need to be ok with what you are doing/giving if you will receive NOTHING in return.

And, if someone pushes you on something of that nature? A simple "I'm not ok with that" will suffice. No overwrought emotional litanies of your sacrifices or anything else will make a whit of difference.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Also wanted to add Lon, I did notice your comments on the other thread, you're a big reason I started this thread. Didn't want you to think I ignored your covert contract comment.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Gaia said:


> Is she seeing a counselor? Have you voiced these feelings to your own counselor? If so.. what did he/she suggest? Oh and as far as marriage goes... imo BOTH parties will need to comprimise, make sacrifices, ect not just one and no one should be the others servant imo.


She is on and off with the counsellor. It's getting really expensive so she can't go every week anymore. I picked that counsellor because she committed to 16 weeks, strict CBT, with a plan for improving and not "just talking for an hour a week about her problems." From what I understand, all they do is talk, and my wife has not gained any practical skills for changing her behavior or thinking patterns. And it's been closer to 24 weeks.

I don't have my own counsellor, though I'll probably get one soon for some perspective.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

COguy said:


> She is on and off with the counsellor. It's getting really expensive so she can't go every week anymore. I picked that counsellor because she committed to 16 weeks, strict CBT, with a plan for improving and not "just talking for an hour a week about her problems." From what I understand, all they do is talk, and my wife has not gained any practical skills for changing her behavior or thinking patterns. And it's been closer to 24 weeks.


24 weeks? And no new skills? If things aren't improving within 5 visits something is wrong. Either you've got the wrong therapist or a patient unwilling to do the work.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

COguy said:


> Now I’m kind of bitter because I didn’t really get anything from that, even though I stepped up my game, her actions didn’t change.
> 
> My motivation and inspiration is dwindling and I’m really second guessing my marriage.
> 
> ...


No doubt your wife has some issues, but the stuff listed is still squarely in your court. Bitterness, doubting the relationship, allowing her to make you feel (whatever), judging her interests and future actions, these are your contributions to your mutual problems. If you see yourself as the more mature person in your relationship, you need to square up your issues for yourself before you look towards your wife


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

Willard Harley has a concept the Giver and the Taker. All people have both tendencies to some extent, and they must be balanced in a healthy marriage. Here is how he explains it:

The Giver & Taker


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Mavash. said:


> 24 weeks? And no new skills? If things aren't improving within 5 visits something is wrong. Either you've got the wrong therapist or a patient unwilling to do the work.


Uptown is notable for going the distance with his SO dogging it in counseling. Just going on about your problems and not DOING ANYTHING about them is unacceptable.

It just feeds the victim.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> No doubt your wife has some issues, but the stuff listed is still squarely in your court. Bitterness, doubting the relationship, allowing her to make you feel (whatever), judging her interests and future actions, these are your contributions to your mutual problems. If you see yourself as the more mature person in your relationship, you need to square up your issues for yourself before you look towards your wife


Fair enough! Any insight from what you've seen or do I have to wait for a counselling session?


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

COguy said:


> Fair enough! Any insight from what you've seen or do I have to wait for a counselling session?


In my humble opinion, all the feelings/attitudes I listed derive from your holding on to old hurts and resentments. My suggestion would be to find your way to forgive your wife for all these past wrongs, not matter how serious, how hurtful or how attached to them you are. Likewise, find your way to forgive each new wrong as it occurs.

Dr Chapman of Love Languages fame has a new project on forgiveness. Get his new book and read it and you may not even need another counselor. He also has an interview around where he talks about removing bricks from the wall you have built between you and your partner which is an excellent resource


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> In my humble opinion, all the feelings/attitudes I listed derive from your holding on to old hurts and resentments. My suggestion would be to find your way to forgive your wife for all these past wrongs, not matter how serious, how hurtful or how attached to them you are. Likewise, find your way to forgive each new wrong as it occurs.
> 
> Dr Chapman of Love Languages fame has a new project on forgiveness. Get his new book and read it and you may not even need another counselor. He also has an interview around where he talks about removing bricks from the wall you have built between you and your partner which is an excellent resource


What's the name of the book? I don't see it on his site or amazon or anything.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Yeah, me neither. Click this link and then click through any of the links to his radio broadcasts and click "listen now":

Focus on the Family Search Results: chapman


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

COguy said:


> Can you rephrase that? I don't think I understand.
> 
> You're saying that responding calmly without emotion is enabling behavior? How so?


You raise an issue. She throws a tantrum to derail the issue. You defuse her tantrum and defend yourself because she has attacked you. The issue you raised is ultimately ignored through her misdirection tactics. She is rewarded because she doesn't actually have to deal with the issue you raised and continues the misdirection. In the meantime, the energy you had reserved for dealing with the issue is also spent and you have gotten nothing out of bringing it up. This allows her to believe that she is in the right -- that is, when you defend yourself against her tantrum, she sees this is you defending yourself for having brought up the issue, which allows her to believe that you feel guilty for bringing up the issue, meaning that it isn't really an issue. She wins. She isn't fighting to resolve the problem, she is fighting to win no matter what the fight is. You have raised an issue because you want to communicate and resolve it, but she has turned it into a fight and she must win it to feel better about herself, regardless of whether or not your issue is a real thing that needs to be addressed. She wants to be right more than she wants things between you two to be right. When she has a tantrum and goes into a rage, you should not try to defuse it, just tell her "you are being defensive and angry; think about what I said and we will talk later when you aren't going to be defensive, but actually interested in hearing what I have to say" and then walk away. She will calm down and realize that she is in the wrong for over-reacting and then maybe next time, you guys will be able to talk.

That's my take on it.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

moxy said:


> You raise an issue. She throws a tantrum to derail the issue. You defuse her tantrum and defend yourself because she has attacked you. The issue you raised is ultimately ignored through her misdirection tactics. She is rewarded because she doesn't actually have to deal with the issue you raised and continues the misdirection. In the meantime, the energy you had reserved for dealing with the issue is also spent and you have gotten nothing out of bringing it up. This allows her to believe that she is in the right -- that is, when you defend yourself against her tantrum, she sees this is you defending yourself for having brought up the issue, which allows her to believe that you feel guilty for bringing up the issue, meaning that it isn't really an issue. She wins. She isn't fighting to resolve the problem, she is fighting to win no matter what the fight is. You have raised an issue because you want to communicate and resolve it, but she has turned it into a fight and she must win it to feel better about herself, regardless of whether or not your issue is a real thing that needs to be addressed. She wants to be right more than she wants things between you two to be right. When she has a tantrum and goes into a rage, you should not try to defuse it, just tell her "you are being defensive and angry; think about what I said and we will talk later when you aren't going to be defensive, but actually interested in hearing what I have to say" and then walk away. She will calm down and realize that she is in the wrong for over-reacting and then maybe next time, you guys will be able to talk.
> 
> That's my take on it.


Lots of people put a much higher value on being _*right*_ than being *happy*.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

COguy,
When she asks that - it isn't quite an honest question. What I mean by that is she knows she is not meeting your needs. She is initiating the conversation with one of two goals in mind:
- to get you to lose it and say something you have to apologize for - which changes the focus from her bad behavior to "yours" 
- to convince you that your feelings aren't valid

When was the last time she asked that question and you responded with: I am unhappy you are not prioritizing me
Where her reaction was a genuine and immediate apology



TE=COguy;723653]Can you rephrase that? I don't think I understand.

You're saying that responding calmly without emotion is enabling behavior? How so?

I am trying to go out and do more stuff, give her less affection (I'm getting less interested in it anyway). But it is insanely difficult for me to do this without appearing to give "the silent treatment". I mean yesterday I was eating cereal and she came right up to me and asked me what's wrong and why I was mad at her. It's like she can sense that I'm annoyed at the relationship, even if I'm just sitting there involved in something.

So I tell her honestly what I'm feeling because I don't want to be non-confrontational about it. One of the things I promised myself after the affair is that I'm not going to be silent about my feelings. If something is bothering me, I will let her know.

Another question, what is the likelihood, that after I pull back that she turns it around and starts acting more lovingly? I know she WANTS to be a good wife. How would doing this have any chance at saving the marriage long term?[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Wanted to give an update. I took a lot of what you guys said to heart. Did some reflecting about my positions (not letting go, choosing to get upset, etc).

We went out on friday night, I was nice and respectful to her but I wasn't being a shmooze, basically I just turned down the thermostat a little. We had a great time, and by the end of the night she was all over me.

That wouldn't be a big deal, because that's normally how the cycle goes, but she genuinely apologized for her behavior without me even bringing it up. Basically she said exactly what I was looking for last week.

"I'm sorry that you're not feeling loved or satisfied. I'm sorry that when you told me I got defensive. I'm sorry that I haven't done a good job of showing you. I love you and I want to do a better job of it."

And then we had wild crazy car sex.

But I learned a lot about myself the last few weeks, and about my wife. Namely, that I'm my own worst enemy sometimes. And second, I start acting really irrational if I don't get sex for a week.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Sex cures everything that ails a man. IMO anyway.


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## SprucHub (Jan 13, 2012)

Coguy - that is how my wife works - super defensive to the point of being offensive at any hint of criticism. Then, magically a week later she changes.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

SprucHub said:


> Coguy - that is how my wife works - super defensive to the point of being offensive at any hint of criticism. Then, magically a week later she changes.


But, that change won't happen if you cave in.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So, since Friday, have you discussed what specifically you need from her? That would have been the next logical step.


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## Bottled Up (Nov 12, 2011)

COguy said:


> "I'm sorry that you're not feeling loved or satisfied. I'm sorry that when you told me I got defensive. I'm sorry that I haven't done a good job of showing you. I love you and I want to do a better job of it."
> 
> And then we had wild crazy car sex.
> 
> But I learned a lot about myself the last few weeks, and about my wife. Namely, that I'm my own worst enemy sometimes. And second, I start acting really irrational if I don't get sex for a week.


I hate to tarnish a beautiful outcome like this, but your last thought here is quite telling... you get angry when you don't get frequent sex. That right there is your own self-admitted weakness. Just beware of letting your wife in on this little secret... or maybe she already knows? 

The risk here is that she could end up using sex as a distraction means to mask her from neglecting your needs in other aspects of your relationship. You don't want her to ever get to a point where she learns that "if I give him sex (x) many times then I don't have to do (x) for him at all."


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Bottled Up said:


> I hate to tarnish a beautiful outcome like this, but your last thought here is quite telling... you get angry when you don't get frequent sex. That right there is your own self-admitted weakness. Just beware of letting your wife in on this little secret... or maybe she already knows?
> 
> The risk here is that she could end up using sex as a distraction means to mask her from neglecting your needs in other aspects of your relationship. You don't want her to ever get to a point where she learns that "if I give him sex (x) many times then I don't have to do (x) for him at all."


It's probably more my fault than hers. I've been so adamant with her that sex isn't the issue, it's all this other stuff, and I've been lying to myself about how important it really is.

I haven't really been vocal about it when I really did need that connection, for fear of letting her "be right about it."

The truth is, sex is important to me, and I have realized that more and more over the last month or two. And when I find myself starting to lose it, I need to let her know instead of pretending like it's not a big deal and sulking like a little baby.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> The truth is, sex is important to me, and I have realized that more and more over the last month or two. And when I find myself starting to lose it, I need to let her know instead of pretending like it's not a big deal and sulking like a little baby.


This is an awesome revelation about yourself COguy. Good for you for recognizing how you're contributing to your problem. :smthumbup:


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## Bottled Up (Nov 12, 2011)

COguy said:


> It's probably more my fault than hers. I've been so adamant with her that sex isn't the issue, it's all this other stuff, and I've been lying to myself about how important it really is.
> 
> I haven't really been vocal about it when I really did need that connection, for fear of letting her "be right about it."
> 
> The truth is, sex is important to me, and I have realized that more and more over the last month or two. And when I find myself starting to lose it, I need to let her know instead of pretending like it's not a big deal and sulking like a little baby.


I'm actually in the same emotional boat you are big guy... I also get really irritated during dry spells and have learned slowly over the previous weeks/months to be more open about my issues than "Bottling Up" like I used to. My wife has been embracing my new-found communication very lovingly and there's been good change for us as a result.

The big difference between us is that I'm not a victim of infidelity betrayal, so that can surely alter the situation and reactions in your relationship over my own. So without knowing your wife at all, my post to you was more on the side of precaution/protection knowing you've been through some rough sh!t already.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Bottled Up said:


> I'm actually in the same emotional boat you are big guy... I also get really irritated during dry spells and have learned slowly over the previous weeks/months to be more open about my issues than "Bottling Up" like I used to. My wife has been embracing my new-found communication very lovingly and there's been good change for us as a result.
> 
> The big difference between us is that I'm not a victim of infidelity betrayal, so that can surely alter the situation and reactions in your relationship over my own. So without knowing your wife at all, my post to you was more on the side of precaution/protection knowing you've been through some rough sh!t already.


Well you're dead on. The infidelity I think has affected me in ways I'm not used to. I'm a lot more sensitive now, to stuff that never bugged me before. I mean I went months without sex before and took it like a champ, now I go a few days and start getting pissy. I also took a hit to my confidence and am a lot more concerned about who she's talking to and doing and what not. It's to be expected, but not normal for me and it's taking some time to get used to.

I'm realizing lately, and it helps to hear from other people, that I do need help, my wife is not the sole cause of my issues. Mostly for the reason that I don't really understand how everything affects me yet, and it's obvious I'm still holding some stuff in.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

COguy,
It is 100 percent ok to tell your W - below a certain frequency of sex I feel tense and angry. And when that happens - at BEST I will act "tense and withdrawn" and at worst "tense and aggressive". 

Don't apologize for that. Don't explain it in greater detail. Don't defend it. You are DESCRIBING yourself. That is perfectly ok. In the same vein if I were to ask you to create a list of situations that upset your wife, could you do it? 

Even more important, along with the question of "when she gets upset about X" if I do "Y" it will help her feel better. 

THAT is what makes a good partner. In both directions. 

If you crowd your wife, my guess is that you are KILLING her desire for you. And if you give her some space to love you, clearly she has desire for you. 

The "silent treatment" is hostile. Spending less time with someone is not hostile. There is a subtle variation on this theme which you figured out on your date. TALKING to much and trying to entertain your partner and/or seeking their approval is not a good thing. 

As for 10 year hubby - be very careful with his advice. He seems to advocate "peace at any price". If you read his posts about how his wife treats him - I imagine you will shudder. Most or all of his posts are about unconditional love and continuing to forgive. This is extreme doormat behavior. It brings out the WORST in your partner. Hold them accountable. Do NOT reinforce their bad behavior by saturating them with love when they are treating you in a way they would never tolerate. 

As for my earlier point. 
1. It is best to let your Wife know she is behaving badly in less than 10 words. 
2. For instance - if she promised to do a few things and didn't do them - when she asks why you are unhappy you just calmly say: "Lack of effort, item 1, item 2, item 3". And then SHUT UP. You have now used a powerful shorthand to answer the question. If she gets hostile and/or aggressive - hold up your hand and say "STOP". And then "respectful tone or this conversation is over". And if she continues to be disrespectful you get up and walk away. THAT is enforcing your boundaries. 

The MORE you talk about your emotions - the worse this goes. The more you use shorthand to convey what you expect/require from her the better this goes. 

My W loves and respects me. She dislikes any lengthy conversation about how I am feeling. She responds exceptionally well to the approach above - though I rarely use that approach since I am usually able to use humor instead. 




COguy said:


> It's probably more my fault than hers. I've been so adamant with her that sex isn't the issue, it's all this other stuff, and I've been lying to myself about how important it really is.
> 
> I haven't really been vocal about it when I really did need that connection, for fear of letting her "be right about it."
> 
> The truth is, sex is important to me, and I have realized that more and more over the last month or two. And when I find myself starting to lose it, I need to let her know instead of pretending like it's not a big deal and sulking like a little baby.


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