# Dutiful Dad gets no lovin



## discountdoublecheck (Nov 8, 2012)

My wife and I have been married for 7 years, have 2 great kids (5 and 3.5) I left corporate America about a year ago when we had issues with daycare. I have since become a stay at home dad and operate an in-home daycare where I care for 8 kids in total.

Our sex life is TERRIBLE! Has been for years (long before I left my job) I will try to be objective in all of my statements. I am a mans man; like to cut wood, hunt, yard work, build things, shovel snow(live in MN) you name it, I have probably done it. In addition to all of that, I do 90% of the cleaning, 100% of the laundry, 75% of the cooking, and 90% of the child raising (do daycare, and do majority of evening things with them) I'm no model, but I do take care of myself with working out, playing sports, and am above average looking. I always make it a point to tell her she is beautiful, that I love her, and just grab her and kiss her at random moments

My wife has ZERO interest in sex! She goes to work (10 hr days), eats supper, helps put the kids to bed, goes to sleep. REPEAT. She has a day off each week due to the 10 hr days, and she still goes to bed early the night before her day off because she is tired, sleeps in, and goes to bed early the next night because she has to be up early the next day. I put in about 55 hrs each week with just daycare, so its not like I'm slouching in that dept.

When most guys have issues with their wives not being "open for business" the solution everyone has is that they need to help her out around the house more so they won't be stressed. She already doesn't do any of that stuff. When we do have sex, she looks like she would rather be banging her head against the wall. She acts as if she is doing me a favor by having sex with me. I'm not a selfish lover, I always make her orgasm before me, very generous with me performing oral sex (she despises giving). All I hear from her is that she likes sex when we have it, but doesn't want to have it. She doesn't think its that important (her words)

I am about ready to pull my hair out. I don't want to cheat on her, but I'm going out of my mind. Suggestions?


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Have your wife take care of the kids and find a real job. A stay at home dad is a minus 10 sex rank.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

keko said:


> Have your wife take care of the kids and find a real job. A stay at home dad is a minus 10 sex rank.


:iagree:


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## Dubya (Oct 2, 2012)

Four things come to mind that you should do (a,b) or think (c,d)about

a. read this: Married Man's Sex Life primer by Atol. up your sex rank
b. start talking about what turns her on. maybe you are missing something small, like the way you touch her
c. stop doing too much... you are doing way more than your share. less is more here, I bet
d. turn down the emotional thermostat a little and see if she responds


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

:iagree:

Let's face it... you aren't working outside the house and do all the "woman's work" (OK, you all can bash me but you know what I mean  ) so while physically you may be attractive, the overall image isn't.


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## Theohe (Jul 23, 2012)

Sexism is a little strong in here... if that logic was solid shouldn't he not find his wife attractive since she is doing 'man's work'? I work a standard desk job and have no children, but I refuse to beleive that his problem is the fact that he is a great father.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Zig (Oct 6, 2012)

It's absolutely astounding how if this guy were a woman posting about doing all the household chores she would get a wave of sympathy because she has the "hardest job in the world" but when a man does them he's just a lazy bum.


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## Dreald (Aug 30, 2012)

keko said:


> Have your wife take care of the kids and find a real job. A stay at home dad is a minus 10 sex rank.


Yet many SAHW feel that sex is a chore and have no obligation other than to meet an occasional need for sex by their husband. Or get "bored" and spend more and more time on FaceBook and think the grass is greener somewhere else. 

Honestly, many women need to take a hard look at themselves about what WILL make them happy as it often isn't clearly understood. And no husband or man will make them happy, they have to find that within themselves. 


That said, many men need to take a hard look at themselves and ensure they truly are an IM and aren't a Mr. Nice Guy with covert contracts and blame shifting.


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## discountdoublecheck (Nov 8, 2012)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dubya (Oct 2, 2012)

Theohe said:


> Sexism is a little strong in here... if that logic was solid shouldn't he not find his wife attractive since she is doing 'man's work'? I work a standard desk job and have no children, but I refuse to beleive that his problem is the fact that he is a great father.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


its not that simplistic...


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## livnlearn (Mar 5, 2012)

I know two couples very well where the husband stays home and the arrangement works well for them. AND from all indications there are no problems with the relationship..both seem to be very happy couples. These women do not want to stay home with the children..and the fathers do an awesome job.

I know it's not going to happen overnight, but we need to change our opinion on men staying home with the children...it's no less unfair then it is to bash a woman if she chooses to have a career and not be the primary caregiver.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

People may not like it, but sorry, men and women are different. That's not sexism, it's biology. Right or wrong, subconsciously men are judged by both men and women on their ability to provide. 40 years of feminism cannot wipe out a million years of evolution. We've evolved, but not as much as some would like to pretend that we have. Anytime a man takes on the traditionally feminine role within the household, attraction will drop. This happens at a subconscious biological level. Attraction is not something you can control.

Here's a little exercise for the men: go to a bar and chat up 10 women. For the first 5, tell them that your dream in life is to open your own business that makes enough to support a family and leaves a lot of time for great vacations and raising kids. Then tell the other 5 that your dream in life is to find a woman who will work hard and support you while you stay home and take care of the house and kids. Even the most evolved woman will find the second scenario less attractive. Some women are highly ambitious and convince the man that they're already with to go down this road so that they can advance in their own careers....but it's a trap. Nothing good can come of it.


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

Things to consider. As long as you're the homemaker you are not sexy. If your able to work outside the home then do it. Why in the world do you do all the house work and the childcare? This is a shared responsibility and if a women came on here and said the same thing she would be told to insist that her husband help out regardless of his work hours. You should do the same. You've made it too easy for your wife. She has lost respect for you. Are you planning to run a childcare center until you retire? What's your end game plan? Do you realize that your setting yourself up for a life of being dependent on a wife that doesn't want to make an effort in your marriage?


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## discountdoublecheck (Nov 8, 2012)

You are mistaking me for a "stay at home" parent. I do stay home, but in addition to watching my own children, I watch 6 others plus 2 school age children. Those of you who have children, know how expensive child care is. I make 50k a year so don't give me the "get a different job" bs. I also said that before I did daycare, I had a very good job in bank management with the same issues with regards to sex. 

One issue that I didn't share before are daycare moms. Like I said, I have been doing daycare for less than a year. I have been approached by 3 different daycare moms about having some fun on the side. I know if this situation was swapped and a woman provider was approached by daycare dads it would be perceived much differently. It just solidifies my position that Im not dead when it comes being noticed by the opposite sex. I can't see myself cheating on my wife. I'm not looking for support. I want to fix what I have. I know I can get it elsewhere, but I want it from the woman I married
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jerry123 (Apr 9, 2012)

Yeah it's sad how wives view us SAHD. Got in an argument with my wife the other day. She says her 50% of the marriage is working 8-5:30. Then proceeds to tell me after that she is done. Goes on to say my 50% is not done till kids are in bed at 9:00. And that's supposed to equal out for me not bringing home paycheck. I told her go give our daughter a bath and read her a book then put her to bed in a very direct way. She stomps out of our room and does it. 
It's so sad that I let it get this way, I'm sure she will try and withhold sex to try and prove her point but I won't let it bother me. 


Guys, he said the sexless marriage has been this way even when he was working. So going out and getting a job is not the fix. You need to up your sex rank. Is your wife in great shape. On a scale of 1-10 what are you and what is she?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Here's a little exercise for the men: go to a bar and chat up 10 women. For the first 5, tell them that your dream in life is to open your own business that makes enough to support a family and leaves a lot of time for great vacations and raising kids. Then tell the other 5 that your dream in life is to find a woman who will work hard and support you while you stay home and take care of the house and kids. Even the most evolved woman will find the second scenario less attractive. Some women are highly ambitious and convince the man that they're already with to go down this road so that they can advance in their own careers....but it's a trap. Nothing good can come of it.


And if you did the same experiment with a woman, you think men would find the stay at home version more appealing than the one who wants to go vacationing and make a lot of money?

Everyone would find option 2 less appealing.


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## livnlearn (Mar 5, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Here's a little exercise for the men: go to a bar and chat up 10 women. For the first 5, tell them that your dream in life is to open your own business that makes enough to support a family and leaves a lot of time for great vacations and raising kids. Then tell the other 5 that your dream in life is to find a woman who will work hard and support you while you stay home and take care of the house and kids.


hmm, let's see..."great vacations..." or "work hard and support you" :scratchhead: your choice in wording is a little unfair. How about a third option "my dream in life is to find a woman who I can work together with to make a good life for ourselves and our children. If the woman I choose to spend my life with is highly motivated and successful, and taking time off to raise the children would put an end to her career dreams, I would be willing to take the role of primary caregiver to our children so she can fulfill her ambitions". 

I'm not saying it is for everyone..it's not the way my relationship is or even how I'd WANT it to be. I just think it's unfair to generalize. There are loads of sexually frustrated people here and I think it's safe to say that in all but a few the husband works outside of the home.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

My husband is a Stay at Home Dad with our 4 month old son. He was forced to retire this past year (he's 45 yo) and it works for our family.

When I see him holding our son or playing with him, I honestly get extremely turned on and want to take him RIGHT THEN.

That said, he doesn't behave like a wimpy type of guy. He's tatted up, in good shape and has no problem standing up to me if I'm acting like a *****. 

To maintain his own identity, he takes a couple of afternoons a week to go hang out in his shop (aka mancave) and to go to the gym. He also still takes time to go to LA to visit friends, go for a ride on his motorcycle and even went to Vegas for a few days with his friends. 

I'd start pulling back a bit. Stop asking for sex because it starts to come across as begging. 

The advice I would give you is to focus on you, buy some nice new clothes, take extra attention with your appearance. Focus on eating right, going to the gym a bit more. Your wife WILL become intrigued even a little jealous about why you're working so hard to look better. 

Stop doing ALL the housework. You work, she works. Split the duties so you're less her '*****' and more her partner.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> And if you did the same experiment with a woman, you think men would find the stay at home version more appealing than the one who wants to go vacationing and make a lot of money?
> 
> Everyone would find option 2 less appealing.


I think, of the 5 women at least 4 would find the prospect of a future stay at home husband a turn off. If the tables were turned, perhaps 2 or 3 men would find the prospect of a stay at home wife a turn on. Me personally, I've ALWAYS preferred the idea of having a wife who stayed at home to take care of the house and kids. In fact, when my wife wanted to start working a couple years ago it led to many fights and I was pretty convinced that it would lead us to divorce. I've never been turned on by the thought of a working wife. And I know I'm not alone....there are many guys out there like me. I'm definitely less attracted to my wife because of her work. Just being honest.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I think, of the 5 women at least 4 would find the prospect of a future stay at home husband a turn off. If the tables were turned, perhaps 2 or 3 men would find the prospect of a stay at home wife a turn on. Me personally, I've ALWAYS preferred the idea of having a wife who stayed at home to take care of the house and kids. In fact, when my wife wanted to start working a couple years ago it led to many fights and I was pretty convinced that it would lead us to divorce. I've never been turned on by the thought of a working wife. And I know I'm not alone....there are many guys out there like me. I'm definitely less attracted to my wife because of her work. Just being honest.


My husband is like you. I work part time mostly bc i spent so much time in school for this job it would be dumb to throw my degrees away.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Unreal the sexism in here. If a man working as a daycare provider is a minus 10 to you, good luck to you. I bet you wouldn't agree if a man said that about a woman as a daycare provider.

The dude works 55 hrs a week and does plenty of other things around the house.

Frankly, if I was in his shoes I'd tell her it's time to straighten up and make things more fair around the house or things aren't going to be happy for you for long.

Do the housework/daycare work that you have to do and that's it. Tell her you don't like the fact she doesn't do much around the house. If she gives you a line about how you're working from home so you should have to do it, tell her that's bull****. Start demanding an equal trade off of tasks around the house.

Btw, it's a well established point on these boards that more chores doesn't = more sex. Often, it means less. Stand up for yourself and tell her to do her own damn laundry.


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## discountdoublecheck (Nov 8, 2012)

TCSRedhead said:


> My husband is a Stay at Home Dad with our 4 month old son. He was forced to retire this past year (he's 45 yo) and it works for our family.
> 
> When I see him holding our son or playing with him, I honestly get extremely turned on and want to take him RIGHT THEN.
> 
> ...



It sounds like your husband and I would get along well. Granted I'm 28, but I like to do all the things you mentioned. As far as being a "wimpy" guy, I played linebacker in college and am 6'2, 210 (with tattoos). As far as the housework, I did an experiment a few months ago. I stopped housework cold turkey to see what would happen. Within 4 days, the place was a disaster. I had to clean because of the health and safety factor.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I think, of the 5 women at least 4 would find the prospect of a future stay at home husband a turn off. If the tables were turned, perhaps 2 or 3 men would find the prospect of a stay at home wife a turn on. Me personally, I've ALWAYS preferred the idea of having a wife who stayed at home to take care of the house and kids. In fact, when my wife wanted to start working a couple years ago it led to many fights and I was pretty convinced that it would lead us to divorce. I've never been turned on by the thought of a working wife. And I know I'm not alone....there are many guys out there like me. I'm definitely less attracted to my wife because of her work. Just being honest.


Maybe over time sure. But I know if some woman walked up to me and within a few minutes told me that she wants to get married so she can sit at home and watch the kids and left all the outside work up to me, I'd be saying adios. I myself don't mind a stay at home wife either, in fact I gave my ex-wife that option. But I like to know that in case something happens I'm married to someone who can help out. If on your first meeting you can tell someone you want to never work and have a man pay all the bills, that's not a first impression I'll care much for.


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## discountdoublecheck (Nov 8, 2012)

BTW, I have a 4 year college degree in business
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Theohe (Jul 23, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> People may not like it, but sorry, men and women are different. That's not sexism, it's biology. Right or wrong, subconsciously men are judged by both men and women on their ability to provide. 40 years of feminism cannot wipe out a million years of evolution. We've evolved, but not as much as some would like to pretend that we have. Anytime a man takes on the traditionally feminine role within the household, attraction will drop. This happens at a subconscious biological level. Attraction is not something you can control.
> 
> Here's a little exercise for the men: go to a bar and chat up 10 women. For the first 5, tell them that your dream in life is to open your own business that makes enough to support a family and leaves a lot of time for great vacations and raising kids. Then tell the other 5 that your dream in life is to find a woman who will work hard and support you while you stay home and take care of the house and kids. Even the most evolved woman will find the second scenario less attractive. Some women are highly ambitious and convince the man that they're already with to go down this road so that they can advance in their own careers....but it's a trap. Nothing good can come of it.


Of coursw men and women are different, and from an evolutionary standpoint men are better 'providers'. But if you want to jump into the whole evolution thing, let us get some context. Providing now a days has little to do with what we were evolved to do. Claiming a man can only provide by going out and making money implies that house/child care is not providing in an oppurtunity cost kind of way.

How much does evolution really dictate our lives anyways? Marriage for men, and heck society as a whole can conflict heavily with our 'evolved responses'. How often do consider the whole 'spreading seed' argument as a strong position against marriage as a whole? Evolution has strong influences on us, but we are not the primal animals we used to be, completely dictated by our instincts.

Lastly, the desires of women vary. They want different things. Implying a woman will always be happier if their man is just a little bit more of an ******* is a little insulting to women. Some women will be happy with very subdued 'beta' men and some want a very 'alpha' man. Most probably lie in between. Being more 'alpha', manly, more assholsish, whatever you call it may work in some cases sure, but let us not kid ourselves by saying that strategy is a blanket solution for all marriages.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

discountdoublecheck said:


> It sounds like your husband and I would get along well. Granted I'm 28, but I like to do all the things you mentioned. As far as being a "wimpy" guy, I played linebacker in college and am 6'2, 210 (with tattoos). As far as the housework, I did an experiment a few months ago. I stopped housework cold turkey to see what would happen. Within 4 days, the place was a disaster. I had to clean because of the health and safety factor.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Have you thought of just leaving? Based on your efforts as a dad, I'd say you'd have just as good of a chance at getting your kids as she would.

Your wife sounds like a leech.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

The problem is multifaceted. You need to work on all of these things at the same time. And don't use your own logic, feelings and desires as a guide for solving this. 

-- She is doing a male role and you are doing a female role
-- Her life is mostly consumed with work and not fun
-- You have young kids
-- Here is the big one... She sees no need for sex, since for her the need for sex is to GET A MAN (Done!) and GET CHILDREN (Done!) so she now does not want to permit herself to have sex.

So, what you have to do:

-- Give her a reason to be sexual....Make her life fun, not about the kids, make sure that she feels safe, happy and has some entertainment. Make her feel loved and special. Make her feel like a girlfriend and not just a worker and a mother. Make sure she knows you love her for herself and not just as a sexual object for your gratification. Make her understand what sex means to you her man on an emotional level. Make her see that in marriage a man puts forth effort to meet his wife's emotional needs and the wife needs to do the same.. .And lastly make sure she understands that without sex, there is no marriage, and if she is choosing a non sexual relationship as opposed to a marriage this is a tough choice for the kids but you will respect her choice and you wish her well in her quest to find a new man who does not care about sex.


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## Theohe (Jul 23, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I think, of the 5 women at least 4 would find the prospect of a future stay at home husband a turn off. If the tables were turned, perhaps 2 or 3 men would find the prospect of a stay at home wife a turn on. Me personally, I've ALWAYS preferred the idea of having a wife who stayed at home to take care of the house and kids. In fact, when my wife wanted to start working a couple years ago it led to many fights and I was pretty convinced that it would lead us to divorce. I've never been turned on by the thought of a working wife. And I know I'm not alone....there are many guys out there like me. I'm definitely less attracted to my wife because of her work. Just being honest.


There of course is nothing wrong with your opinion. My wife works and I love it. In fact, my wife will never be a stay at home mom and I have never had desires for the standard house wife. That is just the difference between people. My point is, quickly drawing the conclusion his wife is unhappy because of his profession is baseless. You are pulling that from ones own desires.

It would be as if I claimed someone living in Florida was unhappy because of the hot weather based on the fact that I do with no knowlexge of that persons preferences. Want to see if the kids thing really is the problem? Have a soul searching conversation with the wife and ask her perspective.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

It sounds to me that her 10 hour days are making her exhausted and also getting in the way of your time together.

You seem to be disconnect emotionally and physically at the moment. Neither you or your wife's needs are being met. 

I would sit her down and ask her what her needs are. Maybe you both can work at finding that connection you once had.

You both work very hard. I could of never done daycare, it's really not for me. Whether your male or female, it doesn't matter. Your both working full time, you just happen to work inside the home. That does not make you less of a man. Plus you have the benefit of raising your own children while getting paid.

I think you both need to reconnect emotionally and physically. Try finding time to spend with your wife with your undivided attention a few minutes a night.


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## Dubya (Oct 2, 2012)

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> It sounds to me that her 10 hour days are making her exhausted and also getting in the way of your time together.
> 
> ...snip
> 
> I think you both need to reconnect emotionally and physically. Try finding time to spend with your wife with your undivided attention a few minutes a night.


I agree wholeheartedly. even better if that undivided attention adds up to 15 hours a week and consists of meeting each other's intimate needs and getting to know eachother again.


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## MrHappyHat (Oct 24, 2012)

Don't listen to the minus-10 crowd. You run a successful small business. There's nothing SAHD about that.

I think Hicks has the right of it in this situation. I like his advice.

I would add that you completely stop the spontaneous compliments. Everything you wrote about her gives the impression that she takes you for granted. All of your compliments have no 'weight,' they're expected by now. Cut them out until she earns that praise.


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## discountdoublecheck (Nov 8, 2012)

jerry123 said:


> Yeah it's sad how wives view us SAHD. Got in an argument with my wife the other day. She says her 50% of the marriage is working 8-5:30. Then proceeds to tell me after that she is done. Goes on to say my 50% is not done till kids are in bed at 9:00. And that's supposed to equal out for me not bringing home paycheck. I told her go give our daughter a bath and read her a book then put her to bed in a very direct way. She stomps out of our room and does it.
> It's so sad that I let it get this way, I'm sure she will try and withhold sex to try and prove her point but I won't let it bother me.
> 
> 
> ...



To be honest, I am a 7, and she is a 5 or 6. She has let herself go in the last 2 years. After baby #2, she had lost all baby weight due to breast feeding and was a good 7. She has put on about 40 lbs since that point. She is very pretty, but has no ambition to help the rest of her body
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Hmm, maybe it's a self esteem thing then.


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## Snookums (Nov 6, 2012)

You are definitely taken advantage of! And hate to let a few of the guys down but to many women what you accomplish in a day at home can be quite the turn on. You seem very attentive to your wife and very giving inside of the bedroom & out, she should be relieved and more than happy to keep her husband happy in the bedroom. You didn't sound like you demanded anything but just some attention which is HUMAN instinct!


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

did the sex stop before your wife became pg with #2?
It's important in that if you went on to have a baby with her after she started denying sex, you basically told her you were OK with that. If she stopped being sexual while pregrant or after the baby, it's clear she does not see the purpose of sex in a marriage


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

do you two have date nights?


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## JoeHenderson (Oct 3, 2011)

Theohe said:


> Sexism is a little strong in here... if that logic was solid shouldn't he not find his wife attractive since she is doing 'man's work'? I work a standard desk job and have no children, but I refuse to beleive that his problem is the fact that he is a great father.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks for bringing this up. I was confused by that reasoning as well, especially since OP describes himself as a man's man. He seems to be the best of both worlds. 

Perhaps I missed it in the story, but who's idea was it for OP to leave Corporate and stay at home? I'm wondering what W's feelings were about that change in the system. 

OP, I'm sorry to hear you are struggling. I, too, have a W who seems bothered by sex. She typically doesn't like it when I grab her and kiss her passionately. 

This might be reaching, but is there a chance that she's depressed? Has she gone to the doctor to rule-out anything that could lower her arousal (e.g., thyroid, vitamin d deficiency, etc)? Perhaps you've already answered those questions, but I was just wondering. 
I wish you luck!


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Considering the lack of has been going on before he started daycare I doubt that is the culprit of the lack of sex.


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## discountdoublecheck (Nov 8, 2012)

People have mentioned that I should pull back, not force the issue. That is the position that I have taken the past month or so. I keep doing my thing of showing her that I love her, and not even bringing up sex. It's gotten to the point that I don't even try for sex because I don't want to get revved up just to be shot down

I know she understands that I am good. She mentioned to one of her coworkers ( she knows that I do daycare) that I was building our youngest son a loft bed, her coworker replied "oh, he's handy too? You better not let him go". 

Apparently it is too hard to show your husband ANY kind of anything
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JoeHenderson (Oct 3, 2011)

abitlost said:


> Considering the lack of has been going on before he started daycare I doubt that is the culprit of the lack of sex.


ah, good point. I guess i lost track of the timeline during my post


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## Zatol Ugot? (Mar 5, 2012)

Regardless on where you stand on the whole sexism/sex rank issue, the fact is that she has sex with you as a very low priority on her list. The question is why. Some have suggested that it is because of your status as a SAHD. Some are saying that your wife is depressed or has a psychological issue. Some are saying that your wife is just ungrateful and a bad person. Whatever the reason, communication is in order. What type of discussions have you had with her trying to get to the bottom of the issue?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Discount, 
Let's start with history and jump to the present:
- you say this has been going on for years including during your corporate job
- when did it change from good to bad? 

You say that during sex she clearly looks like she doesn't want to be there. 

But when asked about it - she gives you some nonsensical answer about how she likes it but just doesn't think it is important. 

Newflash: her body language during sex and clear avoidance of it are the truth. 

Her contradictory gibberish about liking it but avoiding it is false. 

You seem more focused on convincing us that you deserve to be treated better than you are on understanding why she is avoiding sec with you. 

As physically strong as you are, it seems like she has you utterly whipped. That is not an insult, it is an observation about what would turn a woman off. 

Not only has she kicked your azz up until now, but you have chosen to take the battle to the bedroom, her area of greatest strength. Lmao - she will outlast you so very easily. 

You are afraid of her. That much is obvious.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

discountdoublecheck said:


> People have mentioned that I should pull back, not force the issue. That is the position that I have taken the past month or so. I keep doing my thing of showing her that I love her, and not even bringing up sex. It's gotten to the point that I don't even try for sex because I don't want to get revved up just to be shot down.


Go read the Thermostat thread and turn things down. By stopping the sex, while still doing all the wonderful things for her that show you love her, you are communicating through your actions that everything is fine. Align your actions with your words.


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## Dubya (Oct 2, 2012)

I know your head is swimming, so I'm gonna post this again.



Dubya said:


> Four things come to mind that you should do (a,b) or think (c,d)about
> 
> a. read this: Married Man's Sex Life primer by Athol Kay. up your sex rank
> b. start talking about what turns her on. maybe you are missing something small, like the way you touch her
> ...


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## ConfusedWifey86 (Nov 6, 2012)

all i can say is your doing a fantastic job, and keep it up!  
i really do not know how you do it, i have 3 children and there is no way that i could do family daycare dont get me wrong i love my children dearly but i dont think i could cope doing family daycare. i take of my hat to you!!!


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

discountdoublecheck said:


> It sounds like your husband and I would get along well. Granted I'm 28, but I like to do all the things you mentioned. As far as being a "wimpy" guy, I played linebacker in college and am 6'2, 210 (with tattoos). As far as the housework, I did an experiment a few months ago. I stopped housework cold turkey to see what would happen. Within 4 days, the place was a disaster. I had to clean because of the health and safety factor.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't mean wimpy in a physical way - I'm talking in behavior. This type of problem requires a very direct approach. 

Literally schedule some time without kids and have a very frank discussion about your needs and her needs and what needs to be done for you both to be happy. You need to be doing less (not nothing) around the house and she needs to do more. You need sex - what are her other needs? 

You're WAAAAAY too young to be in a position to beg for sex. At this age bracket, you should be boinking like mad rabbits. Hell, I'm 40 and hubby's 45 and if a whole week goes by, I'm thinking something's wrong. If you don't fix this and address it in a direct manner, this is likely to get a lot worse. Read through all the sexless marriage threads to see what I mean.

This has been a major discussion going on in our marriage these past few months because after 10 years, I'm tired of doing it all. I've been the one doing ALL the housework, plus holding down a full time job, plus being mom, going to the gym and seducing my husband. SOMETHING had to give. BUT I had never talked about it directly with him, so he really didn't know it was wearing me out. Just like talking about needs for sex, we hadn't really talked about what each of us found we need to be happy.

To have this discussion, you both need to be open, honest and allow the other person to say what they feel in a safe environment. Don't react, defend or freak out. Take time to think about it and try to fix it for the next week. See if it helps. Then talk again. 

If you see improvements, even if they're small - say something. It's not fair to complain about the lack and not comment when it changes.


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## indiecat (Sep 24, 2012)

Have you read "His Needs, Her Needs", if not you both should read it. 
Ask her to read it as a personal favor to you. Tell her you aren't happy and feel that you both need to do some work to understand each other better.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Zig said:


> It's absolutely astounding how if this guy were a woman posting about doing all the household chores she would get a wave of sympathy because she has the "hardest job in the world" but when a man does them he's just a lazy bum.


No kidding. What a bunch of sexist [email protected]****. Being a stay at home Dad is an honorable thing and I commend you OP for doing it. Being a parent isn't a womens or mens job, it's both.............that's why it takes BOTH to make a child.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I think, of the 5 women at least 4 would find the prospect of a future stay at home husband a turn off. If the tables were turned, perhaps 2 or 3 men would find the prospect of a stay at home wife a turn on. Me personally, I've ALWAYS preferred the idea of having a wife who stayed at home to take care of the house and kids. In fact, when my wife wanted to start working a couple years ago it led to many fights and I was pretty convinced that it would lead us to divorce. I've never been turned on by the thought of a working wife. And I know I'm not alone....there are many guys out there like me. I'm definitely less attracted to my wife because of her work. Just being honest.


Why? This is my own observation and ONLY mine but allow me to explain my belief. The men I have met who do not want their wives to work (in my experience) are threatened by their success or thoughts of success. They don't see money as ours and really think making more means the difference between being in control or not. Those are also the types of men who look down on SAHD's. To date, I have never met a woman who had an issue with a SAHD but I have met many men who view them as "unemployed and lazy" which is really sad. Again, my opinion from experience so I would be curious to hear why your wife working is such an issue for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Not going to go into that trap. Nope. You have your experience. I have mine. Not everyone who wants a traditional marriage is insecure or controlling or whatever bs about me you're implying.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Not going to go into that trap. Nope. You have your experience. I have mine. Not everyone who wants a traditional marriage is insecure or controlling or whatever bs about me you're implying.


It isn't a trap and I DON'T think you are insecure that's why I was curious about your beliefs. I respect your right not to answer. I answer right now to make sure you didn't think I said something about you that I wasn't implying, okay?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Why? This is my own observation and ONLY mine but allow me to explain my belief. The men I have met who do not want their wives to work (in my experience) are threatened by their success or thoughts of success. They don't see money as ours and really think making more means the difference between being in control or not. Those are also the types of men who look down on SAHD's. To date, I have never met a woman who had an issue with a SAHD but I have met many men who view them as "unemployed and lazy" which is really sad. Again, my opinion from experience so I would be curious to hear why your wife working is such an issue for you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The men that i know that dont want their wives to work b/c they acknowledge that women can't do it all. 

Yes, many woman are in positions where they have to do it all. 

I think my generation has been lied to about 2 things:
1.) women can have it all
2.) you can have a baby whenever you [email protected] well please.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> It isn't a trap and I DON'T think you are insecure that's why I was curious about your beliefs. I respect your right not to answer. I answer right now to make sure you didn't think I said something about you that I wasn't implying, okay?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's cool. Anyway this isn't the right place for me to fully develop my thoughts. Suffice to say I've always wanted a traditional marriage. I like us all having time to be together and live life and we have plenty of money otherwise. Oh and I've never attempted to restrict her spending in any way. I don't question purchases. It's truly "our" money. The only separate bank account we have is her account for her paycheck.


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## KendalMintcake (Nov 3, 2012)

jerry123 said:


> Yeah it's sad how wives view us SAHD. Got in an argument with my wife the other day. She says her 50% of the marriage is working 8-5:30. Then proceeds to tell me after that she is done. Goes on to say my 50% is not done till kids are in bed at 9:00. And that's supposed to equal out for me not bringing home paycheck. I told her go give our daughter a bath and read her a book then put her to bed in a very direct way. She stomps out of our room and does it.
> It's so sad that I let it get this way, I'm sure she will try and withhold sex to try and prove her point but I won't let it bother me.
> 
> 
> ...


Haha, I get home after a long day at work and am told 'your turn' and the kids are all mine from that point. Maybe I should use that approach about initiating sex. Like this, I feel horny bit real tired of initiating 'your turn'!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KendalMintcake (Nov 3, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> Unreal the sexism in here. If a man working as a daycare provider is a minus 10 to you, good luck to you. I bet you wouldn't agree if a man said that about a woman as a daycare provider.
> 
> The dude works 55 hrs a week and does plenty of other things around the house.
> 
> ...


Totally agree. The guy posts a question with some background information that pretty clearly said he runs a day care and suddenly people jump in and come at him from a 1950's point of view. What ever happened to freedom to choose what you want. My wife worked and I supported her decision to do so. Then she expressed interest in becoming a stay at home mom - fair enough - that's what she got. Personally I think I'd enjoy being a stay at home dad, but I like my work so it makes sense to keep it status quo. It's friggen a new millennium and having a father and mother involved in a child's development is great as far as I can see. Well the problem here seems simply to be that her sex drive is low. As a guy with a pretty normal drive I can sort of imagine what it is like if after I take a deluxe style shower (one that involves manual special attention to certain body part). Afterwards the thought of getting jiggy is the very last thing on my mind. I imagine that is how it must feel with no sex drive. That's the main issue here. Many women especially become imbalanced in the hormone department after giving birth. I also think it takes patience and commitment to fixing the issue. Start by making an effort to connect mentally first. I think you should try doing date nights, not just one, but whenever you can. Plan to spend time as pals and don't do it expecting that once you get home after date number 1 that you'll be rewarded. I am willing to bet that as much as you are disappointed that she doesn't initiate sex, she is disappointed you don't hunt down time together like you probably did when you first met. I may be wrong but trying to say based on what I have read in te thread. Yes you are expressing you love and appreciation and perhaps you are setting up date nights. If you haven't I recommend it. I too am in similar shoes in that my wife has no sex drive. But note, one online friend told me something that kind of blew my mind. After we got in a mini battle over sex, my wife later that day initiated. The friend told me 'see she does want to please you'. That freaked me out because I saw the initiation at first as obligation. We (or at least many of us) who have low sex drive partners are often so wrapped up in the disappointment of rejection and cannot fathom how the other party fails absorb our pleas for more intimacy. But think about what you may be failing to see. I am slowly slowly learning that it takes patience patience and more patience to undo years of erosion. Keep a positive attitude as that alone is (not any of this bs domestic role babble) is what makes a person (male or female) attractive. There is not much that is more off-putting than desperation. Look at it like this if you are intimate 6 times a year, do whatever you must to increase frequency a bit - say 10%. Then make sure you increase the other things that are missing by a lot more - such as 30%. That way you emphasize a holistic approach and it should reinforce your commitment to the both of you, not just yourself. This is my approach and I see real progress. I do often feel like I am not making progress and it is still very difficult at times, but when I step back and take inventory of things I can say l that then I am reminded of the progress. I still don't get it a lot but, some of th recent times have been pretty darn good, in fact fantastic actually. I wish I could flick a switch and make those fantastic times happen each week and that's when I get down and it is so easy to slip into self pity and frustration. Testosterone feels like a curse sometimes. I hop le that is helpful and please ignore any of these accusations of being I attractive because you work with kids. I say right on man! Kids are fun, and fun grown up men are a real treat for little kids just 'coz it is rare and they seem to get a kick out of it. Don't fret it bru, you can fix it - you can make it happen!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## discountdoublecheck (Nov 8, 2012)

TCSRedhead said:


> I don't mean wimpy in a physical way - I'm talking in behavior. This type of problem requires a very direct approach.
> 
> Literally schedule some time without kids and have a very frank discussion about your needs and her needs and what needs to be done for you both to be happy. You need to be doing less (not nothing) around the house and she needs to do more. You need sex - what are her other needs?
> 
> ...




I appreciate your continued input on this issue. After reading your post, I may have come to something ( will get to it in a minute). With regards to the wimpyness you spoke of earlier, I don't believe that I am that either. I am the one who handles the finances (remember my banking, running it since day 1), I am the final say on most everything consequential on our lives. I don't get worked up over small issues unless they string together to form a much larger one. 

I am wondering if she is withholding sex consciously or subconsciously because that is something she can control by herself. 

We do have date nights about every two weeks. This summer we purchased a camper on a seasonal site only 25 minutes from home. We do have fun as a family and together as a couple. I don't know what more I can do. 

We do talk about our problems. We were having issues with communicating and due to my infidelity, we started seeing a marriage counselor. We began in June and are still going every few weeks. About 6 weeks ago we all got on the subject of sex and the therapist noted how important it is. She suggested that we have sex at least two nights a weeks. 6 weeks later, and we have had sex a total of 4 times.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Wait, I don't remember reading before that you're a cheater. How did I miss that? That would seem to be relevant. Has she forgiven you? Is there some lingering resentment there?


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Why? This is my own observation and ONLY mine but allow me to explain my belief. The men I have met who do not want their wives to work (in my experience) are threatened by their success or thoughts of success. They don't see money as ours and really think making more means the difference between being in control or not. Those are also the types of men who look down on SAHD's. To date, I have never met a woman who had an issue with a SAHD but I have met many men who view them as "unemployed and lazy" which is really sad. Again, my opinion from experience so I would be curious to hear why your wife working is such an issue for you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My wife and I had a very long discussion about what was important to both of us. She wanted to be a SAHM, because she thought it was important for our family. I did not care, and we are fortunate that my job allows her to take that roll rather than be forced to work. I don't think I was controlling and I certainly was not threaten by her potential success.

I am curious about your experience with women's reactions to a SAHD. I have never heard a women who said that they had an issue with them. I have some some women (a minority, but not an insignficant one) who's actions suggest otherwise. Comments about money being "hers" as opposed to "theirs", digs about having it easy, and suggestions while at a party that he needed to run off and handle the kids while the adults talk. They ran the spectrum from subtle enough that you could ignore it to quite blatent. In many ways, they reminded me of comments from sexist men about their wives.

I do think it matters to some women, and that percentage is large enough that it probably deserves being looked into in normal circumstances. Here, since the issues were there during his corporate gig, I tend to think it is minor if it exists at all.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Wait, I don't remember reading before that you're a cheater. How did I miss that? That would seem to be relevant. Has she forgiven you? Is there some lingering resentment there?


:iagree:

Yeah, this is a minor point, isn't it. What were the circumstances of your infidelity. When, where, why, how and what steps have you taken since then, like counseling and the like?


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## discountdoublecheck (Nov 8, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Wait, I don't remember reading before that you're a cheater. How did I miss that? That would seem to be relevant. Has she forgiven you? Is there some lingering resentment there?


I must have missed that in my opening statement. This spring, I was sick of being by myself. Wife didn't care about me, our marriage, anything with us. No sex, no companionship, nothing. Since I work from home and not into the bar scene, it's hard to talk to people. I began looking for companionship online via Craigslist. I had set up some encounters, but each time got cold feet and backed out. I couldn't do it. I left open an email and she saw all of it. We worked out our issues, and she has forgiven me. I completely understand I was in the wrong here. I am not the only one with indiscretions before everyone throws me under the bus. November 2010 she was in Vegas for an RN conference and she slept with another man. Our relationship was not that great, but we loved each other and she ****ed some random guy. I forgave her for that and we are moving forward
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

discountdoublecheck said:


> We do talk about our problems. We were having issues with communicating and *due to my infidelity*, we started seeing a marriage counselor. We began in June and are still going every few weeks. About 6 weeks ago we all got on the subject of sex and the therapist noted how important it is. She suggested that we have sex at least two nights a weeks. 6 weeks later, and we have had sex a total of 4 times.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ok, so this is a BIG piece of the puzzle. Intimacy thrives in an environment of trust. If that trust has been violated, it is going to take time to heal IF it ever heals. 

What steps are you taking to help her feel that your marriage is a safe place for her? Have you given her access to all computers, email accounts, social networks, etc? Be as transparent as possible. 

Definitely make sure to keep talking about this with her independently and if your MC has addressed in counseling, I'd raise it again that 4 times over 6 weeks just isn't working for your needs.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

Oh lord - just read she's cheated also. So, the trust has just been obliterated all over the place.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

TCSRedhead said:


> Oh lord - just read she's cheated also. So, the trust has just been obliterated all over the place.


Kind of makes you wonder, if you have to work so hard at it then what's the point of being married. Maybe you'd both be better off if you were free to find someone you're compatible with. Stop the cheating. Stop the withholding. Stop the wanting. You're just not on the same page, and you both are driven to look for what you really want elsewhere.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Kind of makes you wonder, if you have to work so hard at it then what's the point of being married. Maybe you'd both be better off if you were free to find someone you're compatible with. Stop the cheating. Stop the withholding. Stop the wanting. You're just not on the same page, and you both are driven to look for what you really want elsewhere.


Yeah - I guess that's where my mind went too but that's a lot easier to say from the outside.

OP, to be honest what you're describing is a big f'd up mess. I would move on over to the Coping With Infidelity page and start reading through those threads. 

Next, sit down and make a list of why YOU want to stay married to your wife. Not about kids, finances, but the reasons you love her (IF) you do. Then make a list of what you need in the marriage, i.e. (passionate sex - not just a quickie 2-3 times a week), time together, etc.

Have your wife do the same. See if there are enough reasons in the Why to Stay Married column to proceed. If there are, are you each willing to sign an agreement to commit to giving each other those needs? Make each other accountable to it. 

If the MC isn't holding you guys accountable each week for your 'assignments' like you outlined, it's time to find another therapist. To let a marriage continue without progress towards repair is negligible.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

every husband that I know that makes less than his wife isn't getting any pu$$y.

If you want to be the man in the bedroom you have to be the man bringing home the bacon!

this is an observation of the people who I know personaly.

not saying its right /wrong or whatever but it the plain turth.


one of thoese thats just the way it is things in life. kinda like women who sleep around are ****s and men who sleep around is ok. 

my advice to my children both boys is to be the man don't let your woman suport you! go out in this big wide world and carve your way and you will be beating the women off with a stick! when you find one that you think make the grade to marry have them sign a prenup!!!!!!!!!!!! if shes offended then you should be offended that shes offended and send her down the road.......funny thing is if your the man! there will be no shrotage of women who will find you attractive. 


all this bullsh*t about it dosn't matter love conqures all is just that wome want a provider and men want someone who desires them and no matter what this anit going to change.

so when the roles are reversed the vast majority of the time it fails.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

discountdoublecheck said:


> I must have missed that in my opening statement. This spring, I was sick of being by myself. Wife didn't care about me, our marriage, anything with us. No sex, no companionship, nothing. Since I work from home and not into the bar scene, it's hard to talk to people. I began looking for companionship online via Craigslist. I had set up some encounters, but each time got cold feet and backed out. I couldn't do it. I left open an email and she saw all of it. We worked out our issues, and she has forgiven me. I completely understand I was in the wrong here. I am not the only one with indiscretions before everyone throws me under the bus. November 2010 she was in Vegas for an RN conference and she slept with another man. Our relationship was not that great, but we loved each other and she ****ed some random guy. I forgave her for that and we are moving forward
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Let me guess, she has equated your looking up ads on Craigslist to her banging some guy in Vegas, right?

What you did was sleazy, but I don't think it is quite at infidelity, certainly not at the level of her betrayal. Your problem is you have swept her cheating under the rug, while ignoring the real problems.

As noted by TCSRedhead, get to the CWI forum and start reading. Consider whether she is in an affair now. Consider what you are getting out of the relationship and whether it is even worth it to you.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

chillymorn said:


> every husband that I know that makes less than his wife isn't getting any pu$$y.
> 
> If you want to be the man in the bedroom you have to be the man bringing home the bacon!


Seriously? He is the man bringing home the bacon via his home business.

This is about bigger issues - she had a taste of extramarital sex and he's dabbled about looking at the potential of extramarital sex.


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## roostr (Oct 20, 2012)

wow, reading this thread took a big turn for the worse when the cheating was mentioned. Its really discouraging to read threads like these and think of how you can maybe help then, bamm, infidelity comes into the story more often than not. That changes the whole complexity of the situation. First thought though is I dont think this has anything to do with the fact that you are a stay at home dad. In my opinion, and in my own situation, I am trying to learn how and why these disconnects occur and work at improving my marraige so that this crap doesnt happen. I am really beginning, after 23 years what people mean when they say it takes a lot of work to make a marraige work. Hopefully you can both identify what is missing and build on what is left. It seems to me that people can grow apart without even realizing it, a lot of men here state that they cant figure out what happened, they do the dishes, laundry help with the kids say nice things to their wives and the wife still withholds sex. There has to be an underlying reason for this to happen as I dont think any woman would intentially withhold sex unless there is a reason, obvious or not. I think the trick is to find it. My situation is somewhat similar to yours in regards to the sex part, so now Im thinking, yeah I do a lot to help out and say nice things, but there has to be more to keeping a woman happy and attracted to you, something to bring it somewhere close to where it was when you guys started out. Thats when it is the best as we all know. Something tells me that we become "ole reliable" doing housework type things, being a good provider but we might be missing the part that is sexually attractive, spontanimity if I spelled that right lol, a little adventerous, not so predictable that it becomes boring and uninteresting. I would like to hear how some women think abou this. Am I on the right track? This being the case, the OP may want to rethink things and adjust within reason to bring the spark back? gl2u


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

As he said before this has been going on before leaving his corporate job so all this mans job bs doesn't have much relevance.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

I think at this point we can drop the whole "job" issue and look at the cause of the infidelity (on both parts) to see why things are where they are.

Also... did OP tell his wife a couple of the ladies wanted some "extra day care"? Bet that may have woken her up.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

My previous relationship went through a similar issue before too, under largely the same circumstances.

I'll admit I messaged a woman as a sort of checking it out situation (like what the OP said he did). This was pre-marriage actually. Nothing happened, but I was testing the waters so to speak. That was wrong.

My wife in our marriage did the same with countless men. I don't know that any went beyond EA's, but I think some did. At the very minimum pictures were exchanged.

I know that when I first found out my wife had engaged in this behaviour, of course I was upset and mad. But I also worked hard to improve the marriage. She however did not and in fact proceeded to do the same thing again, and again.

I say this for three reasons:

1) You need to rule out that she's still doing this (or more).
2) If you gave her a mulligan on the first one you need to be ready to not do so again. It's one thing to forgive cheating once, just like it's one thing to cheat once. We all do something dumb once (not to excuse cheating here), but to repeat the same behaviour again shows she just doesn't care, at least on a subconcious level.
3) Sometimes mistakes we make, such as me messaging a woman myself, don't ever get forgiven. And not that they HAVE to be forgiven, but if you want to stay with someone who has hurt you, you have to either forgive or move on. You can't stay and still hate that person (long-term I mean, you have every right to hate someone for putting you through that). 

OP, you have to ask yourself if you forgive her and if she forgives you. If so, work together, if not, move on.


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## Interlocutor (Dec 29, 2011)

I believe there is a lot of dysfunction, confusion, and low self-esteem that has been masquerading as forgiveness in this marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

discountdoublecheck said:


> When most guys have issues with their wives not being "open for business" the solution everyone has is that they need to help her out around the house more so they won't be stressed. She already doesn't do any of that stuff. When we do have sex, she looks like she would rather be banging her head against the wall. She acts as if she is doing me a favor by having sex with me. I'm not a selfish lover, I always make her orgasm before me, very generous with me performing oral sex (she despises giving). All I hear from her is that she likes sex when we have it, but doesn't want to have it. She doesn't think its that important (her words)
> 
> I am about ready to pull my hair out. I don't want to cheat on her, but I'm going out of my mind. Suggestions?


Sounds similar to the situation I had. I had a good job and made more money than my x wife, but I had more time off and worked shorter hours. I did a lot of the housework just because it seemed natural. I would have felt like a lazy bum just sitting around eating chips and waiting for her to do it. I took a big roll in helping with the kids; I'm sure i changed as many diapers as she did. 

It seems that if one watches the talk shows and reads articles, it seems that guys helping out around the house is a positive thing, but once i came to TAM, I discovered that it may not always be the case for some women. It was never something that she brought up. She never said, "I wish you wouldn't clean the house so much, it just isn't attractive." Actually, she seemed more stressed if there were times when I wasn't able to do as much, but after reading other opinions, I realize that perhaps it was a turn off to her, I don't know.

I may be misinterpreting something, but why would a woman in her 30s and 40s be turned off by a guy who helps out with life? It's not like she was a rock star and world explorer, and all I wanted to do was play video games and watch Oprah. We had a real life. It's also not like I was James Bond when she married me, and I then decided that vacuuming was more exciting.

We both had jobs, kids, and bills to pay. There were meals that needed to be cooked, diapers that needed changing, carpets that needed cleaning, lawns to be mowed, and oil to be changed. I don't know why a guy would be unattractive for doing things that needed to be done.


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## east2west (Oct 19, 2012)

Money is attractive. But it isn't sexually attractive. WorkingOnIt is right that if you go into a bar you'll get more women with a story about how much money you make than a story about how you want a woman to be the breadwinner. But those women don't want sex, they want your money. They might give you sex which is great if all you want is to get laid. But if you want a wife that actually wants sex, then you need a different strategy.


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## east2west (Oct 19, 2012)

All the folks recommending MSSL here seem to forget that Athol Kay is a NURSE. The quintessential woman's profession. If he can write that book about how to get laid by your wife then I don't see why a man that runs a successful daycare business can't get some too.


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## east2west (Oct 19, 2012)

chillymorn said:


> every husband that I know that makes less than his wife isn't getting any pu$$y.
> 
> If you want to be the man in the bedroom you have to be the man bringing home the bacon!


Wrong. I'm making less than my wife and get laid pretty much whenever and however I want.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

keko said:


> Have your wife take care of the kids and find a real job. A stay at home dad is a minus 10 sex rank.


Did you actually read the OP? The man said he had a job in corporate America, and still wasn't getting any.

And what the hell is a "real job"? Did you miss where he said he runs his own business in Day Care? Do you have any idea how expensive Daycare is? He's likely making a very good living, certainly a lot more than some men with "real jobs". 

The only mistake this man is making is putting up with this shrew of a wife. He needs to stop doing all the chores, and putting up with her bull****. If she won't get with the program he needs to file for divorce, and since he's the primary child provide her's got a shot at getting the kids fulltime.



chillymorn said:


> every husband that I know that makes less than his wife isn't getting any pu$$y.
> 
> If you want to be the man in the bedroom you have to be the man bringing home the bacon!
> 
> ...


My penis says you're thankfully very wrong.


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## east2west (Oct 19, 2012)

But I will say that it is absolutely critical that she has respect for you. And from the description you gave it's not clear whether she respects you or not. Forgiving her for cheating is something that will likely lower her respect for you, depending on how you did it. Does she give you a lot of crap about stuff? Throw her attitude around? Ask you to do things in a bossy sort of way? You have to put the smack down on that kind of stuff. 

If you've got it in your head that she's making the money so she's the boss, then your screwed. You have to be the boss in the relationship.


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