# 44, 17 year almost sexless marriage on the brink



## dbg19891 (Aug 3, 2011)

I'd appreciate help from any who can offer it from real life experience. 

Wife and I have been married for 17 years. I'm 44, she's 40. We have 5 wonderful kids. My wife married me when I was 28, I had rockets at my ankles, earned a large living, owned my own home, had a great life. Together we started out strong. We both wanted kids (plural) and wanted to live a great life together. It was obvious to me early on that I was a good catch (earner) and she was clearly looking to marry someone like me. The more I look back on this, the more my choice seems bad. 

Fast forward 17 years. Over our marriage, I was promoted over and over until I earned a substantially higher income and my wife and our first few kids were treated with a rare lifestyle. Come 2007, our global business hit the skids along with a lot of other businesses, and I was ultimately in the unfortunate position of firing a few hundred people with the last one being me. 

2007 I went from hero at home to ZERO. Or as my wife no calls me.. looser! It does not matter what I did for nearly 20 years before, because I am not employable at my former wages, I'm now a looser. Nobody wants to hire me at my former wages and that makes me a 'looser'. 

Today, I earn a mere 'pittance' as my wife calls it. In fact I earn $180-$200k annually here in Arizona but it's far less than my former job paid where I'd earned at least double that. Sick right? 

My wife no longer has "her life" and her future as she once knew it. That included $5000k handbags, $800 shoes, etc. She did not come from money but she definately married a man who was headed to money she thought in my view. 

I'm continually beaten up and disparaged because our kids cannot got to private schools. We sold our former 'executive' home, we rent a nice home in a great Phoenix neighborhood and we drive normal cars vs. Porsches and BMWs. We even struggle many months to make 'ends' meet. Really, on $12-$14k per month, my wife cannot make ends meet. 

Despite my connections and my best efforts, I cannot change things. Our last 2 babies were born in the 'tough years' not because I needed more on my plate, but because my wife was very insistent that she wanted and "we needed" to have more kids, or a daughter in her view. Ultimately, I think it was because I was willing and starving for sex with my wife enough to just give in and go along. I love my kids but I was also happy with 1, then 2, then 3, then 4 and so on. 

My wife is truly in shape, gorgeous and very "youngish." She's attractive to me and to people who meet us. She's been loyal to me and not strayed to my knowledge. She's a very loyal mother and most of what she does is around and focused on our kids. She truly does spend all day working on or around our boys and daughter. 

Flash forward to 2011. Maybe it's my age, but I'm an in shape, good looking, solid hard working guy. It's gotten very hard for me to wake up and realize that despite all the losses and changes in our lives, that I'm just a tool, a mechanism to produce income or a lifestyle, etc. I'm not valued. I have ZERO sex life with my wife and don't know how to get one. I have asked her, "Am I going to go through the rest of my life with NO sex life?" If not with her, with whom? I would never cheat. 

Over the years I have to say that most of the sex that happened that was really rewarding was always around the times our 5 kids were conceived. It's sick to think that but it's more fact than fiction. Have there been exceptions? Sure, but when I think about the number of times I've had to fight, beg or do something extraordinary to get 'sex' to happen in our marriage it makes me realize that I'm nothing short of an ATM and spermbank. I've literally been used for both purposes. 

After months of NO SEX this spring and early summer, I approached my wife in a letter on 6/24. I asked her to please sit down with me and help me understand anything I've done or am doing that makes her feel bad or hurt our marriage. I asked her to please help me understand where she's 'at' and I told her I was rather unfulfilled and unhappy with our marriage relationship and wanted to make it much better. I told her I wanted to repair and improve things and she agreed to meet. 


We spent hours talking. At the end, it was 2 hours of her giving me a list of 'demands' from church to kids to work to money. When I tried to bring up some of my needs I was closed down and accused of cornering her and manipulating her. 

We left with me making all the concessions I could make and actually keep without making promises I know can't be fulfilled. She seemed to appreciate that. 

Over the next days and weeks she seemed to cozy up to me more. I thought I'd made progress and we had as well. This was the case until I acted like I wanted to have sex and approached her intimately a few times. I was flatly turned down. I asked why and was told, she just does not feel comfortable with me and does not think I've earned it. Those were the words. I finally pushed it to the limit and said I was 'done' with having no sex life and was going to fix this one way or another. 

I let it go for a few days until it ate me up. I work my ass off for her and my family. I take constant crap about our 'lack' of income despite doing quite ok given the current situation in the U.S. I felt completely dumped upon. 

I finally confronted it and asked her if she wants to be with me or not. I asked why we had or have our 5 kids together. I asked what's the point of our family if I'm so bad that we cannot have a close intimate relationship as well. 

She told me I disgust her. She feels I'm a stranger. She said I will consider sex but that it won't happen under 'pressure' and we need to take a month off to work on becoming friends again and then let sex happen. 

Were it not for my precious kids I'd walk today. I'm in a bad spot. I love my wife but am so tired of being her 'boy' or her '*****' to treat as she will and constantly blame for our poor lives. She has not worked a day since marrying me and has no appreciation for the reality of work and income earning potential in my line of work. I'm so tired and worn out. I feel so abandoned and alone. I have nothing aside from feeding and spending time with my kids to look forward to. 

Life sucks and I'm just about to just file and move on. She thinks I'd never do it because she thinks I'd have to pay most of my income to her to support the kids and her via alimony and child support. She acts like she's entitled to control how I act and feel. Forget money, I can live on near zero and only care how my family is taken care of. I'm just done being her 'boy' and getting no love or initimacy and no promise of such. 

I'm at the end of my rope.


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

It's hard for me to believe that someone would say you "disgust" them because you "only" make 200k. There has to be something else. That literally sounds like someone who is insane. 

You seem like you have the mindset to divorce. Meet with the lawyers, start setting up individual accounts, Start talking to her about living arrangements, etc. You can always stop mid stream. It does however show how done you are. 

Also, start living a little for yourself. Use some of your money on you. Take a vacation by yourself fishing in Colorado or something. If she asked why say "I've earned it"


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

file and move on! thats my vote.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

I think this is defitely a situation where manning up would do you a world of good - separate your accounts from her, give her an allowance to live within, make your life the way YOU want it and make her start earning her share. If she wants to stay with you she has to make it her choice, and if not make it really uncomfortable for her by taking away the luxury items that being with you comes with. You have a lot of power in this situation, and hire the best lawyer you can find to back up that power in court. Good luck and I hope you can find a relationship that brings you the happiness you deserve, whether it is with your W or not!


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

When I first read your post, my initial reaction was that she wanted a provider, which you were willing to do, and you wanted kids, which she was willing to do. Now, it seems the rules have changed, you want an intimate partner, which she doesn't see as her role (never had to be one for you in 17 years), and she still wants the provider, which she apparently doesn't see you as anymore.

My suggestion, IF you want to try and save your marriage, then you BOTH need to be willing to work on it, and I would suggest that you get into marriage counseling together to see if it's something that you can work out. If it ends up being something that can't be worked out, you will have at least tried and can walk away with a clearer conscience.

Best of luck.


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## dbg19891 (Aug 3, 2011)

Pittance is not in my personal vocabulary, she actually tossed that one at me 2 days ago when a $10k check was not $11k as I had hoped it would be.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

dbg19891 said:


> Pittance is not in my personal vocabulary, she actually tossed that one at me 2 days ago when a $10k check was not $11k as I had hoped it would be.


I'm sorry - your wife just sounds mean and selfish to me. 

I hope that you stand up to her. Just because she is snide and nasty doesn't mean that you can't still be a guy who is in control of his own emotions, life, and destiny. How do you react to her when she says these things to you?


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## dbg19891 (Aug 3, 2011)

Thanks. good advice. I should have noted that we have gone through 2 rounds of such counsel. In 2008 (at my urging) and in 2004 when she wanted it. Both really ended after a few weeks with us both feeling like we got nowhere. For me I felt it was an audience to get beaten up. She said the counselor did not hold me accountable. For what it's worth, I've yet to find a counseling situation that was helpful.


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## dbg19891 (Aug 3, 2011)

1) Either pissed off, dejected and angry (defensive) of me and who I am or in her words 'was' 
2) Suck it up, try the '180' approach of saying I'm sorry you feel that way, walk away, take it, tuck my tail under but usually don't stick with it long enough to work. I basically look like a man with no sack. 
3) I do nothing and she blitzes me with comments about what a looser I am and how I'd abandon my kids, f my kids, deny them a good life, home and education, etc. 

You see,... she's a master of control and I'm a complete *****. 
I did kill her cell phone the other day after she sent me a text that was the end of the end for me calling me a 'looser' for the 'last' time. Then, she called AT&T and turned it back on. So, that was a big nothing. 

I have literally driven $150 P&Ls with 100+ employees and I can control zero of my own destiny. 

I guess I just need someone to day - Dude, get a life, your'e f'd your kids will understand in 10 years, move on.


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## dbg19891 (Aug 3, 2011)

I'm not with without blame. I guess I'm trying to figure out if I'm done or if there's any chance of change. My inner mind says "D, your wife has never had a meaningful and regular sex life with you", D, 
This sex life has not existed in your marriage over 17 years and is not going to exist in the near term if ever". If sex matters and a sex life with your wife is important, it's not going to happen. I can 
1) accept it will never happen
2) live with her and take her **** despite it never happening
3) ???


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

If she bolts now she'll get a lot less than if she waits for something better, but she could refile for that bump once or if you start making it again. She might even 'return' you if times are great again, financially speaking. I don't know, maybe she should take a few dollars strike out on her own and see if she can snag an orthodontist or mid level Mexican drug lord.


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## dbg19891 (Aug 3, 2011)

The last thing I want to convey here is the care for money or things. I don't give a crap and that's been a hard thing to learn but that's where I'm at. 
Fact... I drive a 2002 Honda CRV. It's barely rolling. My last car was a 2007 Range Rover Turbocharged. It went away with the paycheck. 

My wife still drives a nice car, the last I'll buy her. 

I'm not hung up on things or money for a minute. Heck, I can live fine on 1/4 of what I bring home and still find happiness. 

Today she sent me a text to thank me for cleaning the bathrooms.. 4 of them last night. I did this after watching the herd so she can go see a movie with her mom and get away from it all. 

I got that text after she called me before that this morning to criticize me for not cleaning up my 2 year olds kitchen seat. I guess I left some crumbs. 

In my mind, I'm trying to do my best to pull a complete 180. Stop expecting anything including sex, intimacy, anything. Stop begging and stop asking. Stop whatever. 

I've pulled back in the past and it did get some minor short term results. My thoughts are that this is the best I can hope for again, some minor short term results. Ultimately, she treats me as her b itch and her boy and that's all I will ever be.


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## Lily_B (Jul 28, 2011)

Ugh so sorry to hear what you are going through. She just seems very selfish! You deserve better. You need to think of yourself first. Put everyone else out of the picture and look at what you want and need. This is NO easy task (from experience), but it is necessary!

Hang in there!!


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

dbg19891 said:


> 1) 2) Suck it up, try the '180' approach of saying I'm sorry you feel that way, walk away, take it, tuck my tail under but usually don't stick with it long enough to work. I basically look like a man with no sack.
> 
> I have literally driven $150 P&Ls with 100+ employees and I can control zero of my own destiny.
> 
> I guess I just need someone to day - Dude, get a life, your'e f'd your kids will understand in 10 years, move on.


Well, you have the choice to grow a pair if you want to. 

You don't have to let her treat you like this! COMMIT to doing the 180 and do it! You can if you want. Do it for yourself - not for her, or for your marriage, but for YOU. You'll be better for it in the long run, whether you stay with your wife or not. If you don't stay with your wife, any future relationships you have will only benefit from you doing a 180 - otherwise you run the risk of having the same kind of thing happen in a future relationship.

Here's my quote for you. Think about it. 

“_Nobody can go back and start a new beginning, but anyone can start today and make a new ending_.” ~ Maria Robinson 

btw, you might want to cruise over to the Men's Clubhouse sub-forum and discuss with some of the guys who have been there, done that. They can help give you some "guy" support.

God Bless.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Jebus... that's a whole lot of money, I wish my business can earn that much!!!! Darn! And heck, if the missus didn't appreciate my hard work I would be cutting down financial privileges (which I did actually). It's very easy to spoil your wife, to be honest I wonder if I should test my wife in this.

Years ago before marriage she passed a test that only around 2 out of 10 dates passed -> whether they give and take, or just take take take take (as I'm the 'gentleman'... PFFFT!)

But nowadays, she still claims to not be materialistic, but I also struggle to believe her when she still spends and spends (even if she has improved).


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## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

I can't help but feel there is more to this. Based upon her reaction of "friends", etc. You guys are not connected emotionally. That starts by finding yourself again. How much did you work throughout your marriage? A lot?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dbg19891 (Aug 3, 2011)

Yes, I worked a lot during most of our marriage. I was in a position that had me traveling 3-4 nights for perhaps 60% of our marriage. The last 4 years I've been entirely at home. I am self employed and work locally so I'm home nightly and that's actually not been any better. Sometimes I think it'd be better if there was some time and distance between us because the closeness and intimacy that did occur was usually after returning from a few days on the road. 

She used to say she "missed me". I have literally not heard that in years. 

I get no respect at all. I was laid off in 10/07. My benefits ran to zero 90 days later. By Jan 2008 I had built my own 'firm' and started generating income from nothing. I have built it to sustain my family at my current level but because it's not become the mega income she once expected, I'm not working hard enough and not doing well enough. That's where the looser comments come in. 
She constantly refers to people around us, many of who are quite affluent, as winners and successful and completely fails to notice that they did not get there overnight or by chance. She's so ignorant of what it takes to go out and raise a dollar from nothing that she honestly cannot relate to the work I do. 

Like I mentioned earlier, she has proposed a 30 day cooling off period. She read this in some book. The purpose is to take 'sexual' presssure off us so we can focus on re-connecting. 

This is not all bad, except, we have NEVER had a consistent sexual or close relationship. In our best times I was always feeling upset, shorted and slighted by her physically and emotionally. She blames me for not talking enough and not opening up enough. Every time I do that and talk about what's happening at work or with family, she shuts me down and says its too much detail and she does not want to be into all of that. 

It's just completely stupid. 

It's my 5 kids... 13 down to 9 mos that I am worried about. I don't know how to get my MINIMAL needs fulfilled to a minor extent and still live with and raise them daily. My choice is to kiss it all goodbye, walk away, file, etc. I'm fine stroking her a check but the fact is we all suffer. The kids won't live like they do with me on 50 or even 60% of my income if I and the courts were so generous. 

The question is... can I affect this or do I need to learn a way to just live like a freakin' mushroom till the kids are older?


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

My initial thought was she sounds completely ignorant and has been living in a bubble. You have allowed her to behave this way - you have played a part in this. Maybe in the beginning of your relationship you enjoyed being the big shot that could lavish her with outings and gifts? You have suggested that you're not materialistic and she is (with the expensive handbags etc). If you're working as a couple with shared goals, you'd both have an understanding of what your lifestyle means to you. From there, you'd also both have an understanding of what is most important and how you can remain on the same page with the ebbs and flows of life. 

What is this really about with her? What does being able to spend what she likes really mean? Why would she put you down when your income changed? Perhaps your 'success' helps her feel as though she is successful. It sounds as though her ego is wrapped up in this idea of success - which in itself signals that she is highly insecure. Or perhaps she has been missing a real connection with you and her extravagant shopping/lifestyle has filled this void? 

However she has mentioned that you don't feel like friends anymore. She is reading about things to help your relationship. Which makes me think there is more to this.

Have you thought about what she needs - unrelated to finances? 

Stop feeling sorry for yourself about the way she's treated you. It's time to start acting with calm, with confidence and self-respect. When she calls you a loser _(which you spelled wrong by the way, so obviously loser is not in your vocabulary  ...but if I knew how to spell it that means... doh!)_, tell her this is unacceptable. Tell her calmly and firmly that she is not to speak to you that way. If she throws a tantrum, let her, you don't need to participate in that. 

Before walking away and potentially looking back on your marriage as one of materialistic convenience for your wife, I think it'd be worthwhile sticking around to uncover if there are alternative truths to what you're seeing. You might discover some things about yourself.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

> Still, he finally altered his profile on a dating site to attract people who were interested in something other than money.


This reminds me of a story once, there was a bloke who always drove his corolla around when dating, even if he was rich. After his dates dumped him saying "I am looking for someone more established", he revisits them in his mercedes and reveals his wealth, and has them calling him up again going "I'm willing to give us another chance" :rofl: He was like 'yeah right!'

Was a great story, materialism is very real especially in the bigger cities. Financial stability is one thing; as women have to defend themselves lest they become leeched upon, but it has different meanings to different women; some need to feel rich to feel secure in their lives.

But there is a double standard here regardless, when a man provides for his family solely, it's expected. But when a woman provides for her family, she's considered being leeched upon. Traditional values still exists in the face of the attempts in equality.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> This reminds me of a story once, there was a bloke who always drove his corolla around when dating, even if he was rich.


My friend once told me a guy she liked came to pick her up for a date. She didn't like the car he was driving and told him no, she wasn't going to have the date. I told her that was superficial and she might have missed out on connecting with a really great guy. She admits that she is superficial, signs of material success are important to her. Of course, someone can build wealth just as they can lose it. My friend is actually a lovely person but she does unfortunately buy into the image of what 'success' looks like. She is successful in her own right and not looking to be anyone's trophy wife. She makes no apologies for her material judgements. To each their own I guess.


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## AniversaryFight (Mar 7, 2011)

I think there is no need for going to cancelling with materialistic gold digger woman. Nothing will change. Just divorce!!!


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

This post reminds me of the missus at her worst, when her high-class extravagant spoiled demon comes out. I think it could very well be too late to deal with the demon now, your wife has seemed to accept it and allowed it to manifest.

When it got to this point, I put my foot down... hard. Woke her up, and thankfully the woman I love was still deep inside that hardened shell. If not, it could very have been goodbye.

Either way, I won't stand for this crap, and you shouldn't either.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Your wife is doing this not because she is a defective person. She is doing it because you allow her to do it. Women will run all over men if the man lets them. The scale of your woman doing this to you reflects the fact that you have allowed it for a long time and over time it gets more more more. This will ultimately lead to her having an affair (the ultimate scaling up of this behavior).

You have been a leader in your business. Now, become a leader in your marriage. If you had an employee that was trying to assert themself over you, how would you handle it? Using your leadership skills you would prevent it. Dismissing the person would only be a last resort. It always needs to be a card on the table but generally is not needed when you are doing your job as a leader.

Apply your leadership skills to your wife and marriage. Read Man Up, Nice Guy in the mens' clubhouse. Don't be a doormat to your wife. Good luck.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Maybe she's trying to get you to leave here? Or maybe she thinks being a be-otch will magically prompt you to become fabulously wealthy? Either way if it were me....wait a minute, it IS me! I would just aggressively tune it out. Not even rise to the bait. Every time she starts in just ignore her, leave the room without a comment.


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