# To husbands of wives who deny them sex...



## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

I see a lot of posts on here about this topic. I don't get it. I get that life is hard people are tired kids need you...but it seems like there are a lot of men out there suffering in silence and just sucking it up essentially so as to not stir the pot. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems like a lot of husbands out there get rejected or shut down when they approach their wife in walking on eggshells kind of way. If I'm tired and my husband does that....it's so easy to say no not to tonight I'm so tired...and on and on. So he doesn't do that now bc I think he's learned, as I have too, that it doesn't lead to sex (if I am tired/stressed). When we first got married I remember I was too tired or whatever for several days in a row. By about the 5th day of no sex he swung open the door and began unbuckling his belt and in a very matter of fact and dominant way told me to get on my hands and knees. I was shocked and didn't move and he repeated him self and told me that he wanted me and that he was going to have me. That ended up being some of the hottest sex I had ever had. I hope he never gives that up. I like knowing that I'm his and that if he wants to have me he will..it's a total turn on, even if I was totally not turned on prior. So I guess I wonder if that dominance gets lost along the years or if that approach stops working after years of marriage. Have you tried being dominate and it backfired?


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

If I tried that, she might get on her knees alright... and about 5 seconds later I'd have a nice set of dental imprints in my unit as a permanent reminder of why I won't do that again.

Demanding dominance hasn't flown for me with a woman in nearly 20 years. I sort of had it with my first ever sexual partner and I didn't know how good I had it then (still would have broke up with her though, for a long list of reasons...she was just nuts).


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Demanding and dominance are different IMO. Hard to describe in words but....I see my husband as dominant bc every decision he makes is for my best interest or the best interest of our marriage. He handles all of our finances and has done great with that. He continues to progress upward in his career. He always has things taken care of. I totally trust him in every way. If the man wants sex, well he's going to get it from me....but if I'm not on board, I trust him to take the lead and tell me what we are going to do. He's just playing into our basic instinct and it sure as heck works.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

He also does his part to remove barriers between us and our sex life. For example, house cleaning got in the way of sex so he hired a maid. I didn't really think we needed one but now I am so glad we do. Of course that is not an option for everyone and it was something we could afford at this point in our lives.


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## BeachGuy (Jul 6, 2011)

I will never understand why some women (my stbx included) deny their spouses. You give a man good, consistent, fun sex and he will do anything in the world for you forever. It's so easy, yet so many just won't do it.

As bad as my marriage is now, as unattracted as I am to her now, and me about to file for divorce, yet still.....if she walked in the bathroom tomorrow morning and got in the shower with me, I wouldn't file just yet. Hell I don't want to break up my family. But no sex is non-negotiable.

I'll never understand. So easy to fix it all.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Ok but....have you guys ever REALLY tried to take control of the situation. My husband is sweet wonderful loving....all that good stuff so of course that is a crucial part of me being turned on by his leadership in our marriage.


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## Zatol Ugot? (Mar 5, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> Demanding and dominance are different IMO. Hard to describe in words but....I see my husband as dominant bc every decision he makes is for my best interest or the best interest of our marriage. He handles all of our finances and has done great with that. He continues to progress upward in his career. He always has things taken care of. I totally trust him in every way. If the man wants sex, well he's going to get it from me....but if I'm not on board, I trust him to take the lead and tell me what we are going to do. He's just playing into our basic instinct and it sure as heck works.


Missy,
It seems that you are a living, breathing testimony to the Married Man's Sex Life philosophy. Congratulations and good for you that you and your husband has found the "secret sauce".

:smthumbup:


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## Zatol Ugot? (Mar 5, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> Ok but....have you guys ever REALLY tried to take control of the situation. My husband is sweet wonderful loving....all that good stuff so of course that is a crucial part of me being turned on by his leadership in our marriage.


I think that society today conditions men to not take control. IMO, there is a heavy feminization of the modern male that is happening today. To me, this is causing lots of confusion and issues, especially in marriage.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Feminism has ruined lives. I think feminism is really a sick joke and has ended up ruining women's lives but for some reason no one is saying....hey, wait a minute here...


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

I love my job bc my job involves blowing the whistle on this crap....but my instincts leave me feeling like I'd rather bake cookies for my husband than throw on a blouse and pencil skirt for a long day at work.


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## needyForHelp (Aug 8, 2012)

I have tried that ..... but she was completely angry then I did the sex, without any of her input and then she left the bedroom, kept crying for whole night and didn't even talk to me for a whole week ........


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Zatol Ugot? said:


> I think that society today conditions men to not take control. IMO, there is a heavy feminization of the modern male that is happening today. To me, this is causing lots of confusion and issues, especially in marriage.


Bingo.

I remember a poster I seen just a few weeks ago. It had two pictures on it. The first was a picture of Stallone, firing a gun in the midst of what I think was the second Rambo movie. Under it, it said 'male role model of the 1980's'

The second picture was of that Patterson guy from the Twilight movies and under it it said "male role model today"

It was meant as a joke, but it really rings true. Gone are the days of seeing macho men doing macho things on TV, in the media, in films. The best you have now is stuff like Batman, and even in those movies (I haven't seen the newest one, so maybe this doesn't apply to that film) he's head over heels for a women who ends up dying (Dent's fiancee). He's full of confusion, full of doubt. Whatever happened to the guys like Rambo and Chuck Norris and Stallone who simply kicked the door in and kicked some ass. No need for love story underlines, no need for contemplation and doubt, just some take charge, alpha male ass kicking.

Now we are told to be in touch with our feminine side, talk about things, never use physical discipline, we are just 'pigs' if we go to a strip club, 'typical men' if we go out with the guys, and it's a 'man's world' because men still earn more than most women, even though there is still this expectation that the man brings home the money in the majority of households. 

We see it in this forum as well. Men are wrong for watching a bunch of porn, but women are almost appluaded for doing the same. If a man wants sex everyday,. he's told he wants it to much. If a woman wants sex everyday though, she is lofted onto a pedestal. A women who doesn't offer up as much sex as we'd like is just normal and expected, but if a man doesn't offer it up as much as his wife wants, he's accused of not knowing how good he has it and that he may have a major medical issue, such as ED or low testoterone.

I know I have made statements similar to the above in some of my posts as well, but I do so in an effort to help, not as what I expect of men and women. It seems like this world is very much more pro woman than ever and only continuing to go in that direction. I'm fine with that, happy in fact, as I think women's roles in society have been greatly undermined for centuries. That said, it shouldn't come at the expense of men's roles, needs and wants, and that seems to be the way it is heading.

Men are expected to be totally different than they were 20-40 years ago outside the bedroom, but the exact same in it. It doesn't work that way. You can't change a guy into wanting to think about your needs first outside the bedroom, then expect him to drop his trousers and demand you get on your knees inside the bedroom.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Zatol Ugot? said:


> Missy,
> It seems that you are a living, breathing testimony to the Married Man's Sex Life philosophy. Congratulations and good for you that you and your husband has found the "secret sauce".
> 
> :smthumbup:


My husband is really a captain so maybe this helps


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## Zatol Ugot? (Mar 5, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> Feminism has ruined lives. I think feminism is really a sick joke and has ended up ruining women's lives but for some reason no one is saying....hey, wait a minute here...


The original intent of feminism was a noble and good cause. Today, we find it obvious that women should not be treated as second class citizens just because of their gender. I agree with equal opportunities, equal pay for the same job and full protection of the law as an equal participant in society. However, like many revolutionary causes, the pendulum has a tendency to swing too far in the opposite direction. Somewhere along the line, empowerment of women ceased being about the woman and became more about denigrating men. The modern male (especially in America) suffers from a bit of an identity crisis that has been generated from an overzealous sense of political correctness rather than common sense. 
Missy, it seems that you have been able to see through the cloud of misinformation and societal nonsense to encourage your husband and relish the fact that he is a strong, dominant male. Not an a$$hole, just a confident, steadfast male that has his $hit together. I suspect that there are really more women out there that are like you but are afraid that their friends might think that they are being too submissive or that they are buckling under to an abusive husband. This is a sad commentary on our society if you ask me.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> Bingo.
> 
> I remember a poster I seen just a few weeks ago. It had two pictures on it. The first was a picture of Stallone, firing a gun in the midst of what I think was the second Rambo movie. Under it, it said 'male role model of the 1980's'
> 
> ...


Kingsfan, I would find it quite difficult to meet my husbands needs if he were stonewalling me, spanking our kids, giving money to strippers instead of giving money to me, and wasting his juice on porn rather than letting me enjoy it. My husband is king bust trust me when I say I am his queen.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Zatol Ugot? said:


> The original intent of feminism was a noble and good cause. Today, we find it obvious that women should not be treated as second class citizens just because of their gender. I agree with equal opportunities, equal pay for the same job and full protection of the law as an equal participant in society. However, like many revolutionary causes, the pendulum has a tendency to swing too far in the opposite direction. Somewhere along the line, empowerment of women ceased being about the woman and became more about denigrating men. The modern male (especially in America) suffers from a bit of an identity crisis that has been generated from an overzealous sense of political correctness rather than common sense.
> Missy, it seems that you have been able to see through the cloud of misinformation and societal nonsense to encourage your husband and relish the fact that he is a strong, dominant male. Not an a$$hole, just a confident, steadfast male that has his $hit together. I suspect that there are really more women out there that are like you but are afraid that their friends might think that they are being too submissive or that they are buckling under to an abusive husband. This is a sad commentary on our society if you ask me.


People have a tendency of doing the exact opposite of something when it isn't working out for them. Never works out to well.


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## Zatol Ugot? (Mar 5, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> People have a tendency of doing the exact opposite of something when it isn't working out for them. Never works out to good.


Amen, sister!


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> Kingsfan, I would find it quite difficult to meet my husbands needs if he were stonewalling me, spanking our kids, giving money to strippers instead of giving money to me, and wasting his juice on porn rather than letting me enjoy it. My husband is king bust trust me when I say I am his queen.


Not saying that is your husband. I'm simply building on what Zatol said, and venting a bit at the same time.

What men were 20-40 years ago is not what they are expected to be now. It's a tough adjustment, as we are being effectively told that what all of our male role models did, don't do that.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

Thank you for sharing what works for you & others may learn from it.

Let us not forget that many, many husbands are also turning down the wives for sex also. It's not a gender-specific problem.

There is nothing wrong with asking for sex. It is polite & respectful. Demands for ANYTHING don't sit well with me. It is all the pleading & begging for sex that we see on these forums that is sad.


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## Zatol Ugot? (Mar 5, 2012)

Emerald said:


> Thank you for sharing what works for you & others may learn from it.
> 
> Let us not forget that many, many husbands are also turning down the wives for sex also. It's not a gender-specific problem.


And in these cases, the guys are not fulfilling their roles as men. However, despite the numbers that we see here on TAM, I would estimate that the HD/LD ratio in the average American household is probably in the 80/20 to 90/10 ballpark with men being the higher drive. Those that are on TAM, especially the Sex In Marriage section, are automatically predisposed to being more open to the joys (and tribulations) of a wonderful sex life.


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## KHC223 (Jul 30, 2012)

Missy, I'm happy for you and your H just don't think it's that simple. Let me ask when your H tell's you no in let's say a vacation situation do just say ok that's fine or do you continue to work him until you get your way?


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> Not saying that is your husband. I'm simply building on what Zatol said, and venting a bit at the same time.
> 
> What men were 20-40 years ago is not what they are expected to be now. It's a tough adjustment, as we are being effectively told that what all of our male role models did, don't do that.


Ok I'll be more explicit....that attitude won't get you laid.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Emerald said:


> Thank you for sharing what works for you & others may learn from it.
> 
> Let us not forget that many, many husbands are also turning down the wives for sex also. It's not a gender-specific problem.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with asking for sex. It is polite & respectful. Demands for ANYTHING don't sit well with me. It is all the pleading & begging for sex that we see on these forums that is sad.


I echo that


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

KHC223 said:


> Missy, I'm happy for you and your H just don't think it's that simple. Let me ask when your H tell's you no in let's say a vacation situation do just say ok that's fine or do you continue to work him until you get your way?


I what do you mean a vacation situation?


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## Zatol Ugot? (Mar 5, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> Ok I'll be more explicit....that attitude won't get you laid.


I don't think Kingsfan is advocating that men behave like a$$holes, rather he is venting a bit on what seems to be a double standard and confusing messages that are being sent to men. Am I right King?


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## KHC223 (Jul 30, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> I what do you mean a vacation situation?


A decision to go on a vacation you want go he say's no.


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## KHC223 (Jul 30, 2012)

You said he controls all the finances, so I'm asking are you supportive when he say's NO to somthing you want or do you work him until he folds.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

KHC223 said:


> You said he controls all the finances, so I'm asking are you supportive when he say's NO to somthing you want or do you work him until he folds.


He wouldn't just say no he would explain why. He handles the finances. If we couldn't afford it, why would I want us to go into debt so I can get my way. Our number one priority is OUR marriage.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Zatol Ugot? said:


> I don't think Kingsfan is advocating that men behave like a$$holes, rather he is venting a bit on what seems to be a double standard and confusing messages that are being sent to men. Am I right King?


I know....but....there's that opposite thing again that gets people even more disconnected


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## Zatol Ugot? (Mar 5, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> I know....but....there's that opposite thing again that gets people even more disconnected


Sorry. Not sure I follow.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

I tried your way a few times missy during my sexless decade. My wife gave me the ‘look’, told me if I got any closer she’d call the cops, and spent the next couple hours demeaning me and telling me what a prick I was for even thinking I could just use her like that. Basically just a step up from her normal reaction to a pass.

Hate to say it, but some things that helped my situation; Worked on me to up my ‘attractive’ level and stopped whining. Made a sex life as a dealbreaking boundary I have (thus removing the stability). I started treating the approach to sex more like I did when dating; Dropped the expectation of it and upped my intimacy. Rejected duty sex. And a bit of darkside jealousy knowing ‘others’ are interested if she is not (just let her know when I got hit on and broke out and allowed myself to flirt with the opposite sex). More ‘darkside’ was becoming ‘open’ about porn and masturbation, which she doesn’t like or tolerate much as it makes her feel undesirable... and I’d reinforce that when she wasn’t exactly doing attractive things (removed her idea that her no-no was made of unobtainium and automatically ‘wanted’ by me). And I carefully explained what I was doing and why.

She worked on herself and her attitude toward sex. So, the sex life has returned.


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## Ano (Jun 7, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> I see a lot of posts on here about this topic. I don't get it. I get that life is hard people are tired kids need you...but it seems like there are a lot of men out there suffering in silence and just sucking it up essentially so as to not stir the pot. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems like a lot of husbands out there get rejected or shut down when they approach their wife in walking on eggshells kind of way. If I'm tired and my husband does that....it's so easy to say no not to tonight I'm so tired...and on and on. So he doesn't do that now bc I think he's learned, as I have too, that it doesn't lead to sex (if I am tired/stressed). When we first got married I remember I was too tired or whatever for several days in a row. By about the 5th day of no sex he swung open the door and began unbuckling his belt and in a very matter of fact and dominant way told me to get on my hands and knees. I was shocked and didn't move and he repeated him self and told me that he wanted me and that he was going to have me. That ended up being some of the hottest sex I had ever had. I hope he never gives that up. I like knowing that I'm his and that if he wants to have me he will..it's a total turn on, even if I was totally not turned on prior. So I guess I wonder if that dominance gets lost along the years or if that approach stops working after years of marriage. Have you tried being dominate and it backfired?


This would drive me nuts!! In a good way!! I would loveeee it!


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## KHC223 (Jul 30, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> He wouldn't just say no he would explain why. He handles the finances. If we couldn't afford it, why would I want us to go into debt so I can get my way. Our number one priority is OUR marriage.


That's right and dealing with decisions in that way is one of the many reasons why you and you H are connected so well. Unfortunatlly that's not the case in my situation. When reading all this it seems so easy I don't know why it has to be so difficult.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Racer said:


> I tried your way a few times missy during my sexless decade. My wife gave me the ‘look’, told me if I got any closer she’d call the cops, and spent the next couple hours demeaning me and telling me what a prick I was for even thinking I could just use her like that. Basically just a step up from her normal reaction to a pass.
> 
> Hate to say it, but some things that helped my situation; Worked on me to up my ‘attractive’ level and stopped whining. Made a sex life as a dealbreaking boundary I have (thus removing the stability). I started treating the approach to sex more like I did when dating; Dropped the expectation of it and upped my intimacy. Rejected duty sex. And a bit of darkside jealousy knowing ‘others’ are interested if she is not (just let her know when I got hit on and broke out and allowed myself to flirt with the opposite sex). More ‘darkside’ was becoming ‘open’ about porn and masturbation, which she doesn’t like or tolerate much as it makes her feel undesirable... and I’d reinforce that when she wasn’t exactly doing attractive things (removed her idea that her no-no was made of unobtainium and automatically ‘wanted’ by me). And I carefully explained what I was doing and why.
> 
> She worked on herself and her attitude toward sex. So, the sex life has returned.


Funny, this is almost exactly what worked for me as well. Although I didn't really up the intimacy at first, but it went up naturally as the sex came back. But the other things, making it a deal breaker (I took off my wedding ring in January for the first time in 19 years and having put it back on yet), rejecting duty sex, and becoming very open about porn and masturbation. These things had a profound effect.


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## ukv (Jul 6, 2012)

BeachGuy said:


> I will never understand why some women (my stbx included) deny their spouses. You give a man good, consistent, fun sex and he will do anything in the world for you forever. It's so easy, yet so many just won't do it.
> 
> As bad as my marriage is now, as unattracted as I am to her now, and me about to file for divorce, yet still.....if she walked in the bathroom tomorrow morning and got in the shower with me, I wouldn't file just yet. Hell I don't want to break up my family. But no sex is non-negotiable.
> 
> I'll never understand. So easy to fix it all.


this is exactly - what I feel


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

missymrs80 said:


> I see a lot of posts on here about this topic. I don't get it. I get that life is hard people are tired kids need you...but it seems like there are a lot of men out there suffering in silence and just sucking it up essentially so as to not stir the pot. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems like a lot of husbands out there get rejected or shut down when they approach their wife in walking on eggshells kind of way. If I'm tired and my husband does that....it's so easy to say no not to tonight I'm so tired...and on and on. So he doesn't do that now bc I think he's learned, as I have too, that it doesn't lead to sex (if I am tired/stressed). When we first got married I remember I was too tired or whatever for several days in a row. By about the 5th day of no sex he swung open the door and began unbuckling his belt and in a very matter of fact and dominant way told me to get on my hands and knees. I was shocked and didn't move and he repeated him self and told me that he wanted me and that he was going to have me. That ended up being some of the hottest sex I had ever had. I hope he never gives that up. I like knowing that I'm his and that if he wants to have me he will..it's a total turn on, even if I was totally not turned on prior. So I guess I wonder if that dominance gets lost along the years or if that approach stops working after years of marriage. Have you tried being dominate and it backfired?


I love YOUR Post, all I can add is... IF ONLY MY HUSBAND took that aggressive approach in our past, I just about KNOW I woud have had FUN with that... He never wrestled me to the ground, and got playful, he never grabbed me , threw me over his shoulders delivering me to the bed...he never pushed me up against a wall... he was too gentleman like... and frankly, I think us women Like a little LUSTY aggression ! 

Hell Yeah! 

He loves when I act like that, minus the throwing him over my shoulders of course... but damn it, why didn't he try that on me back in the day! I have even felt deprived of such things. 

Maybe some women would have given that "look" like they are about to call the cops (how rediculous) like Racer's wife ... but I ain't one of those, I accually ENJOY some conflict & feeling like I am being taken down. 

All my husband ever did - besides remain silent with his hurt over feeling I didn't love him as much (due to not wanting as much sex as him) is look something up on the net to get me more in the mood, damn did he ever read the wrong freaking article...telling men to do more dishes, vaccumm, that might work for an Acts of service woman, but that ain't ME. No, he needed some of THIS advice. 

Water under the bridge now.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> Ok I'll be more explicit....that attitude won't get you laid.


I was replying to the issue of men and their expectations, not directly to what would and won't get someone laid.



Zatol Ugot? said:


> I don't think Kingsfan is advocating that men behave like a$$holes, rather he is venting a bit on what seems to be a double standard and confusing messages that are being sent to men. Am I right King?


Pretty much yeah. Some was venting for sure, but the overall point is that men are being asked (IE told) to act more feminine in the rest of life, yet we are expected to be every bit as controlling as ever in the bedroom. It doesn't work that way. Just like women say they need to be 'aroused' well before they hit the bedroom, men's attitude is the same way. Guaranteed if we spend a day of working, going shopping with the wife for 3 hours and cooking a meal, we aren't suddenly going to want to be Stud McMuffin, the hardest pocket rocket in the west, when it's go time in the bedroom.

Let us spend time watching football, hanging with the guys and thinking it's ok to think Rambo would be a cool guy to go on a hunting trip with and we're much more likely to want to pound you harder than Omaha beach on D-day. Thing is, society has already told us, for the better part of a few decades now, that football is a violent sport full of neanderthal's, hanging with the guys is just a way to get away from the kids and wife and shouldn't be tolerated, and Rambo is nothing better than a baby-killing pyscho.

But it's 'liberating' for women to go and watch Magic Mike, have a ladies night at the bar and to go on vacation with just their friends. 

It's beginning to feel like anything men do that is labelled as 'typical' is therefore bad, while women who do the same things are considered to be simply freeing themselves of the shackles of modern male driven society. 

Look at TV shows. In the 50's, you had June Cleaver cooking her ass off and Alice Kramden is trying not to get punched to the moon by her husband Ralph. Now you have a complete role reversal to the point it's considered funny when a husband is scared of or gives in to his wife everytime, like Everyone Loves Raymond, Chandler and Ross from Friends, or Roseanne.

Where are these macho type guys for us to look up to on TV? Jersey Shore? The Bachelor and Bachelorette? Twilight? Spider-man, whose more obsessed with Jane than he is with fighting crime half the time?

Compare the 80's and now. We used to be able to show off our chest hair, now we are considering uninteresting by modern media if we aren't completely clean shaven (even the chest on TV) and have our eyebrows tweezed. Larry from Three's Company was considered a ladies man (at least on the show) in the 80's. Today, he'd be a creepy loser. 

It's all gone 180 so fast it's hard to keep up.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

If I tried something like that, my LD W would probably threaten to scream rape. I've done a lot of the things Racer mentioned...that upped the quantity a good bit.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I love YOUR Post, all I can add is... IF ONLY MY HUSBAND took that aggressive approach in our past, I just about KNOW I woud have had FUN with that... He never wrestled me to the ground, and got playful, he never grabbed me , threw me over his shoulders delivering me to the bed...he never pushed me up against a wall... he was too gentleman like... and frankly, I think us women Like a little LUSTY aggression !
> 
> Hell Yeah!
> 
> ...


And did you tell him that's what you wanted?

I know there's no way at all I'd just grab my fiancee and start heading towards the bedroom. If she's not in the mood, she's not in the mood, and I can't tell when she is/isn't anymore. The only reason I could at first is because she was always in the mood then. 

She may very well want to get 'taken' once in a while too, but there's no way for me to read what's in her head, and there's no way for me to know that she'll just let me do that if I tried, so I don't bother.

It's why most men stop put in the effort IMO, constant rejection (and I don't mean 80-90% either. Even rejection 25-30% of the time is enough to make you start not wanting to try because it might all be for nothing) leads to lack of effort. When you don't even want to ask for sex somedays because you figure you'll get turned down, why would you want to really put yourself out there only to get a no. Then you feel like a real jackass loser.

Not saying this is/was you and your hubby, just explaining why some men don't want to get alpha male with their partner. It's hard to feel like an alpha when your own partner has no problems saying no to you constantly.


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## Zatol Ugot? (Mar 5, 2012)

KHC223 said:


> That's right and dealing with decisions in that way is one of the many reasons why you and you H are connected so well. Unfortunatlly that's not the case in my situation. When reading all this it seems so easy I don't know why it has to be so difficult.


Missy's situation is one in which she has resolved herself to the concept of a household with a clear leader and a "co-pilot" so to speak. This traditional view of male/female relationship is not in vogue in today's society. As mentioned earlier in the conversation, society has placed so much emphasis on equality under any circumstances that it fails to celebrate the inherent differences (biologically, emotionally, physically) between men and women. 
For many in today's world, this concept is about as foreign to them as a talking horse. That goes for both men and women. Both sexes have been conditioned through subtle (and some not so subtle) hints in our culture that the "traditional" arrangement is old fashioned and out of date. Why, in fact, it can be downright chauvinistic. The idea of a strong, confident yet loving male that is a true leader trying to be the best man that he can be while in a relationship with a caring, nurturing wife and partner is seen today as an anachronism and terribly out of fashion. You couple this with the idea that marriage today is not about two becoming one and living as a single unit, but more like a business arrangement where each party goes into the relationship trying to protect his/her interests and not really caring about the others' needs beyond how they will affect them.

I would urge readers to take a look at a book called Manning Up by Kay Hymowitz. This is a fantastic view on how this situation has developed today.

Amazon.com: Manning Up: How the Rise of Women Has Turned Men into Boys (9780465018420): Kay S. Hymowitz: Books

Below is also a link to an article she wrote for the Wall Street Journal. Good reading. 

Article | Where Have The Good Men Gone?


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## Paulination (Feb 6, 2012)

I know alot of the women here are agreeing with this approach but I wonder how much of that is fantasy and what the real reaction would be. It reminds me of that scene in the movie "Tootsie" where Jessica Langes charecter tells Dustin Hoffman (when in disguise as a women) about how refreshing it would be for a man to just come up to her and not BS her and just let her know he wants to fVck her (implying that it would work). So out of charecter Hoffman does this and gets a drink to the face.

A wife who is LD and doesn't want sex will probably not respond well especially if her LD has anything to do with resentment.


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

i am that way with my wife if she turns down sex enough. But she never really does anymore she wants it just as much as i do i pay lot more attention to her now. I notice that if we talk a lot, and i plan dates and all sorts of fun things i get way more sex and it also helps that i love to pamper her. I really think people who get no sex in their marriage should talk it out if that does not work they should divorce. Life is way too short to be unhappy there are other people out there who can give you happiness.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Maybe some women would have given that "look" like they are about to call the cops (how rediculous) like Racer's wife ... but I ain't one of those, I accually ENJOY some conflict & feeling like I am being taken down..


Sad part is she did come close to doing it once.. had the phone and me whimpering and crying for her not to do it and to please not leave me over this. "I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry,..."

Then she bashed me on a forum, told them I tackled her and pinned her to the floor... The consistant advice was she should go to a battered women's shelter, take the kids, and get a restraining order.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

kingsfan said:


> And did you tell him that's what you wanted?


 I obviously didn't know what the hell I wanted back then, I was freaking repressed. BUt there is one thing about me that is NOT like other women, I don't hold grudges and I ENJOY some conflict...a challenge... I was a perfect candidate for such things. Oh yes! I also love to be DESIRED ... I have never EVER in my life felt repulsed by that. Yes, even back then. I was a freaking romance fiend too. 



> It's why most men stop put in the effort IMO, constant rejection (and I don't mean 80-90% either. Even rejection 25-30% of the time is enough to make you start not wanting to try because it might all be for nothing) leads to lack of effort. When you don't even want to ask for sex somedays because you figure you'll get turned down, why would you want to really put yourself out there only to get a no. Then you feel like a real jackass loser.


 There is no doubt I always LOVED sex, I was an initiating wife since day one.... in fact if he went before my orgasm, I'd almost get  & tell him he had to do it again, I wanted mine! I was never a cold fish. Once he got me warmed up, I was all over him. He was just so darn sensitive to MY desire, like he had to feel it before he moved or something. Too much of a gentlemen. 

Let me give you an example... Ok...this is so utterly rediculous, I almost get  thinking about it... Every night in our past, he is wanting sex, but keeping this from me... we would watch movies together, my head laying on his lap, he ran his fingers through my hair -touching my arm, scrathing my back (I LOVED this -wanted it every night, I am very touchy feely)...I was always asking him - "do you want me to scratch your back ?? " wanting to give back ya know... Never ONE TIME did he say something like 'No - but you can scratch here baby" taking my hand leading it below his belt. 

What the helll -- WHY WHY WHY WHY ?? Yes, I was a screw up not realizing to do this.... but damn he had opportunities ...I was wondering IF he had a sex drive - this is why when I got horny at 2am & wanted him, half the time I took matters into my own hands feeling he wouldn't want woke up !! our story of missing each other is one for the books... we just didn't talk about sex ! 

Only 1 time in our marraige do I recall him asking me for a hand job...ONCE in 19 yrs! .... I learend a few yrs ago... asking about that morning...he said it was Sooo hard to ask me, he didn't want too, but he needed it...It is a fond memory for me. .. I cried hearing that.. I enjoyed doing that for him... he should have never felt this way....he just had it in his brain he was a burden, I swear to you..he is one overly senstive man-- he is damn lucky I am a sex fiend today - cause had he married a lower driving woman, he might as well have :BoomSmilie_anim: himself in the head. 



> Not saying this is/was you and your hubby, just explaining why some men don't want to get alpha male with their partner. It's hard to feel like an alpha when your own partner has no problems saying no to you constantly.


 My husband was a nice guy in overdrive, didn't do him any favors in the bedroom. And in reality, I rarely said NO! He was too worried thinking I would - without taking those risks. Never once did I use the headache or too tired excuse, but I did often have a book in my hands at night, or a baby in bed. Those were the culprits.:banghead::banghead::banghead:

Yes, I was a very stupid woman.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Yes, I was a very stupid woman.


Not stupid at all, just misinformed. A lack of comunication is always a big issue in itself.

Your husband really had no reason to not act on his desires when you say you rarely declined his advances. I'm glad you sorted it out.

I could see your husband acting this way if he was repeatedly rejected, but he wasn't. Why he didn't have the ability to speak up I don't know, but I do know how he feels. I didn't speak up much before in my relationship with my ex-wife, but that was because I was turned down about 90% of the time and the few times I was granted access to the pleasure palace, I was led to believe I was being granted some great special prize for which i should have been grovelling at her feet. 

I'm not going back to that again.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Racer said:


> I tried your way a few times missy during my sexless decade. My wife gave me the ‘look’, told me if I got any closer she’d call the cops, and spent the next couple hours demeaning me and telling me what a prick I was for even thinking I could just use her like that. Basically just a step up from her normal reaction to a pass.
> 
> Hate to say it, but some things that helped my situation; Worked on me to up my ‘attractive’ level and stopped whining. Made a sex life as a dealbreaking boundary I have (thus removing the stability). I started treating the approach to sex more like I did when dating; Dropped the expectation of it and upped my intimacy. Rejected duty sex. And a bit of darkside jealousy knowing ‘others’ are interested if she is not (just let her know when I got hit on and broke out and allowed myself to flirt with the opposite sex). More ‘darkside’ was becoming ‘open’ about porn and masturbation, which she doesn’t like or tolerate much as it makes her feel undesirable... and I’d reinforce that when she wasn’t exactly doing attractive things (removed her idea that her no-no was made of unobtainium and automatically ‘wanted’ by me). And I carefully explained what I was doing and why.
> 
> She worked on herself and her attitude toward sex. So, the sex life has returned.


wish i could give this 10 likes.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

missymrs80 said:


> So I guess I wonder if that dominance gets lost along the years or if that approach stops working after years of marriage. Have you tried being dominate and it backfired?


People are all as different as snowflakes. That's great if it works for you and your husband, but it wouldn't work for everyone.

I was the oldest in a very large family. --Raised on a working ranch in a rural area. When someone spread lies about a sister or cousin, it fell on me to 'fix it.'

I have trouble shifting between the roles of big brother/protector and lover even now. Just the little bit you said made my stomach twist and my thoughts wander to ugly things.

That's probably why I was attracted to and married a woman who would never in a million years submit to that attitude/treatment


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Ok let me clarify. My husband is a top notch guy. He is totally a "nice guy" who has had his share of finishing last. We work together.....we really WORK at our marriage. We don't come from the most functional families (but not the most dysfunctional either). We did not have the best models for a good healthy marriage...so what my husband and I have....well, we have worked for it and still do. To all who said its not that simple....you are right. My naivety still serves as a buffer from my own harsh reality that my parents couldn't always be what I needed them to be. I am a therapist and one of my areas of interest is couple's work. I have been trained in that area, read more books than I can count in that area, have had the joy of attending numerous workshops about relationship/family/marriage. So this stuff is always on my mind. But sometimes it's nice to throw off my therapist hat and be naive I guess. I have been through hours and hours of intense therapy (like every good therapist should do) and have exhausted myself many a time in my examination of every nook and cranny of my childhood.....wounds and all.....and have mapped out and worked through all the maladaptive patterns the pop up generation after generation (we all have em) in my family so as to not blindly play into that same pattern. It is my job to always process any countertransference i have and figure out it comes from and from that you learn a lot about yourself. Its all really hard work. But i do it bc i want a good marriage and i want to witness others experience good marriages as well. ALSO...The work I do with couples is not focused on creating dominant submissive marriages btw! Lol


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

But I really am quite curious about everything and learn through asking questions non stop....so I really am interested in reading what others have to say.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Zatol Ugot? said:


> Missy's situation is one in which she has resolved herself to the concept of a household with a clear leader and a "co-pilot" so to speak. This traditional view of male/female relationship is not in vogue in today's society. As mentioned earlier in the conversation, society has placed so much emphasis on equality under any circumstances that it fails to celebrate the inherent differences (biologically, emotionally, physically) between men and women.
> For many in today's world, this concept is about as foreign to them as a talking horse. That goes for both men and women. Both sexes have been conditioned through subtle (and some not so subtle) hints in our culture that the "traditional" arrangement is old fashioned and out of date. Why, in fact, it can be downright chauvinistic. The idea of a strong, confident yet loving male that is a true leader trying to be the best man that he can be while in a relationship with a caring, nurturing wife and partner is seen today as an anachronism and terribly out of fashion. You couple this with the idea that marriage today is not about two becoming one and living as a single unit, but more like a business arrangement where each party goes into the relationship trying to protect his/her interests and not really caring about the others' needs beyond how they will affect them.
> 
> I would urge readers to take a look at a book called Manning Up by Kay Hymowitz. This is a fantastic view on how this situation has developed today.
> ...


You are right. We decided early on this is our our relationship would be. It feels easy and natural so why fight it.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> *By MissyMrs80*
> We don't come from the most functional families (but not the most dysfunctional either). We did not have the best models for a good healthy marriage...so what my husband and I have....well, we have worked for it and still do.
> 
> I have been through hours and hours of intense therapy (like every good therapist should do) and have exhausted myself many a time in my examination of every nook and cranny of my childhood.....wounds and all.....and have mapped out and worked through all the maladaptive patterns…”


Missy
*It is real refreshing to read about someone like you and your husband. You have such a good sex life and attitude.*

I want to be sensitive to the real damaged people so this is for those that had a dysfunctional but not the most dysfunctional family. I will call those people the DBNMD people.

I can understand that those DBNMD should have extra care and we should be patient. However, after years of working on it with some therapy if needed, I think that some take the easy way out. They can always fall back on telling everyone how they had a dysfunctional family and that usually gets enough sympathy to derail the real issue of doing what you need to do to get better.

*So I think that the DBNMD that fall into the category above are laggards that want the easy way out so that they do not have to do the hard work.*

Missy and her husband are from DBNMD families and they are a huge success. So they are proof that if you really want it and are not a laggard then you could do better. 

Missy, maybe your experience is different but I also work in helping marriages and families. I do not work as directly as you being a therapist but I have been involved in getting many families to get help with their issues in marriage and have seen those that have been helped for years not improve but in many cases go backwards. Of course there are those that do improve but they are far fewer than those that do not improve or go backwards.

Since one of my jobs is in social work the families confide in me a lot. I see quite often after years of help that the DBNMD people do not do the hard work and do not improve. *Missy, is that what you have also witnessed?* Maybe I am working with a different group of people as I work exclusively with the low income families but it is a little discouraging to see so few improve.


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## 7737 (Feb 10, 2011)

I am all for evolution and sexual equality etc. Of course women should have the 'vote' yes of course we should treat them as equals etc.....but in doing all this we are also flying in the face of our blueprint.
Women were (are?) programmed to have and raise children and be the home maker/keeper. Men were (are) programmed to be the hunter/gatherers. We were the head of the household, the boss.
We would go out hunting to feed and clothe the family...come home, grunt and want sex from our wifes.
They would oblige because they looked up to us as the provider and protector of the family.

Fast forward to now...society has tried to re-write our programs. If men try to have sex with their wives when they don't want it we run the risk of being arrested for attempted assault or worse.

I still stand up when a woman walks into the room, I still open the car door for a woman, I still open a door and stand back to let a woman in first, I still walk on the 'traffic side' of the footpath...etc
I still chop the wood, I took our dog to the vet when it needed putting down (it was horrible but felt it was 'my' job)....although I CAN, I don't do the ironing etc.

Africa has many problems...famine, corruption etc but there are certain values they still uphold...from those who have never been to school and live in mud huts to those highly educated living fantastic houses appreciating the 'good things' in life...... They all still respect the basic role of the wife and the husband in the family unit.
Often the wife works..has her own business etc...but she still respects the basic needs and role of her husband. She will still 'run' the house and be the 'nest builder' and let herself be 'taken' by him.

He respects her for the role she plays. Both roles are different but equally important. 
They are encompassing the best of 'Political Correctness' etc while respecting the basic roles and needs of man and woman.


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## Kirill (Aug 9, 2012)

I am of the same opinion as the author.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Mr blunt,

Low income populations....maslow's hierarchy of needs. Trust me when I say I know exactly what you mean though. A Family (and of course you usually don't get the whole fam in there so that's an issue in and of itself) that has addiction everywhere, history of sexual abuse, untreated severe mental disorders, personality disorders combined with compounded external stressors and a lack of healthy coping skills....hard to treat. Through their experience with you, a seed may be planted in a least one persons mind (children and teens) to end the legacy and do something different. That's hard as well...family systems do not like change..when someone does something different from their previously held role in the system, family members will react strongly and fight to get the homeostasis back (family systems stuff...Bowen, Kerr etc The Bowen Center - Bowen Theory).

I have worked with that population in the past.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

7737...overall I want to have sex with my husband...he knows that. If we just met and he did that, I'd be running out the door.


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## 7737 (Feb 10, 2011)

missymrs80 said:


> 7737...overall I want to have sex with my husband...he knows that. If we just met and he did that, I'd be running out the door.


Did what? Open the door for you?


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

7737 said:


> Did what? Open the door for you?


Haha no...although some women might run if a guy did that on a first day...poor nice guys  I meant busting through the door for sex.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

kingsfan said:


> Not stupid at all, just misinformed. A lack of comunication is always a big issue in itself.
> 
> Your husband really had no reason to not act on his desires when you say you rarely declined his advances. I'm glad you sorted it out.
> 
> ...


Well to be fair... I failed to mentioin the whole story .... we had 6 yrs of infertility (after our 1st son) where I was a basketcase and I DID put his sperm contribution above his pleasure (this was the beginning of his hurt)...and I did tell him to "wait" on ...well... too many occasions...feeling it would give us better odds at conception. He never complained, he never sat me down & said "Look, this isn't working" - I really didn't "get it", I was too one -tract minded during that time. (again :banghead::banghead::banghead

THIS was the beginning of his feeling rejected.. but after the babies started coming -these were no longer issues....but Yes...those feelings lingered on in his heart -unbeknownst to me .... I call it the 1st monkey wrench into our sex life....had these things NOT have happened, I doubt he would have been "as sensitive" in this way. 

But still.... NEVER NEVER NEVER was I a cold fish, acted like it was some Prize that he could have me, I was enraptured in the emotional connection, when he got me going, I WAS THERE...body soul & spirit.... wanted it and he knew it, I was highly horny with each pregnancy (no wonder he didn't care how many we had)... also my biggest complaint after having each baby was .... "Damn I can't wait to have sex!" -breaking down just a couple weeks later ...(why we have 2 sons 11 months apart) 

So my husband had alot to work with, and IF WE only talked about how we were feeling (mainly him as I was satisfied)... it could have saved us both. 

So YES...fault on BOTH SIDES HERE, I am not faultless by any means. I could have NEVER been as patient as him under those circumstances. I don't understand this sort of passivity. I couldn't have lived with it -if the shoes were reversed.


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## moG247 (Aug 4, 2012)

missymrs80 and SimplyAmorous do you suggest a husband take this approach if his wife has been raped in the past prior to their marriage? Because my wife was raped during her time in the military and that puts a serious strain on our physical relationship... I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but if I would have known then when I said "I do" what I know now, it's a strong chance that I would've said "I don't..." I don't know how much longer I can continue to walk around on eggshells and pay for something I didn't do. We've been married for 16yrs, and all I can take it is one day at a time. Don't get me wrong, I haven't always been a saint or a good husband; I've had infidelities in the past she knows about and I used to drink, smoke, and party our check away. But I've been trying to do better in the ladder years of marriage and accepted Jesus in my heart 5 years ago. And it seems like since then she has gotten worse, she has had several EA's in the last couple of years (none of them evolved to a PA to my knowledge) and even though the affairs are over she still turns me down and rejects my advances. I help around the house; dishes, laundry, bathroom, etc. I compliment her and open doors on a regular basis... So I've come a long way, but it feels like it's for nothing. She still blame her distance and lack of physical affection with me on her past and mental mindset. I'm Saved now and refuse to go out and satisfy my physical hunger outside of our marriage and don't want to leave or divorce her neither (I have always and will always Love her); but it's getting hard to keep this going.

I apologize for turning my question into a vent section, I'll get off my soapbox now; lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## travellover (Aug 6, 2012)

Paulination said:


> I know alot of the women here are agreeing with this approach but I wonder how much of that is fantasy and what the real reaction would be. It reminds me of that scene in the movie "Tootsie" where Jessica Langes charecter tells Dustin Hoffman (when in disguise as a women) about how refreshing it would be for a man to just come up to her and not BS her and just let her know he wants to fVck her (implying that it would work). So out of charecter Hoffman does this and gets a drink to the face.
> 
> A wife who is LD and doesn't want sex will probably not respond well especially if her LD has anything to do with resentment.


Agreed. There was nothing wrong with my physical attraction to my H. I started being less interested when my H continually ignored or dismissed other problems in our marriage. This turned in to resent. It didn't stop our sex life altogether, but it certainly didn't make me inclined to want to sex with him. When I tried to explain the connection between me wanting less sex with him and the unresolved other issues, he would never agree that this might be the actual reason. He still doesn't get it.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

moG247 said:


> missymrs80 and SimplyAmorous do you suggest a husband take this approach if his wife has been raped in the past prior to their marriage? Because my wife was raped during her time in the military and that puts a serious strain on our physical relationship...


 No I most certainly would NOT -those are special & delicate circumstances to deal with...

I was never raped or anything close...In this book  The Alchemy of Love and Lust  - it speaks of such fantasies by women....it is accaully very common...some of these women are ashamed to admit this... which is why it is discussed in the book...

Explained here >>> 



> Rape or near-rape fantasies are central to romance novels, one of the perennial best-selling categories in fiction. These books are often called "bodice-rippers" and have titles like Love's Sweet Savage Fury, which imply at least some degree of force. In them, a handsome cad becomes so overwhelmed by his attraction to the heroine that he loses all control and must have her, even if she refuses--which she does initially, but then eventually melts into submission, desire, and ultimately fulfillment.
> 
> Romance novels are often called "porn for women." Porn is all about sexual fantasies. In porn for men, the fantasy is sexual abundance--eager women who can't get enough and have no interest in a relationship. In porn for women as depicted in romance novels, the fantasy is to be desired so much that the man loses all control, though he never actually hurts the woman, and in the end, marries her. Women's Rape Fantasies: How Common? What Do They Mean? |






> I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but if I would have known then when I said "I do" what I know now, it's a strong chance that I would've said "I don't..."


 I do not find you a jerk at all , I also would not want any of my sons to marry a woman who was raped, I've read too many stories of the aftermath and I know how it could near destroy a normal loving beautiful engaging sex life. I feel it would take a really special man to wade through all of that, very patient, grounded..it just wouldn't be easy at all. 



> Don't get me wrong, I haven't always been a saint or a good husband; I've had infidelities in the past she knows about and I used to drink, smoke, and party our check away. But I've been trying to do better in the ladder years of marriage and accepted Jesus in my heart 5 years ago. And it seems like since then she has gotten worse, she has had several EA's in the last couple of years (none of them evolved to a PA to my knowledge) and even though the affairs are over she still turns me down and rejects my advances. I help around the house; dishes, laundry, bathroom, etc. I compliment her and open doors on a regular basis... So I've come a long way, but it feels like it's for nothing. She still blame her distance and lack of physical affection with me on her past and mental mindset. I'm Saved now and refuse to go out and satisfy my physical hunger outside of our marriage and don't want to leave or divorce her neither (I have always and will always Love her); but it's getting hard to keep this going.
> 
> I apologize for turning my question into a vent section, I'll get off my soapbox now; lol.


 You 2 have really been through ALOT ! No need to apologize - good to hear many different thoughts & perspectives and your point is a good one! No man should ever entertain trying this on a woman with such a past!


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## moG247 (Aug 4, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> No I most certainly would NOT -those are special & delicate circumstances to deal with...
> 
> I was never raped or anything close...In this book  The Alchemy of Love and Lust  - it speaks of such fantasies by women....it is accaully very common...some of these women are ashamed to admit this... which is why it is discussed in the book...
> 
> ...


God Bless you and Thank you for your response. And you're right it does take a special person to stay and wade through all of this, and I'm starting to doubt my "Specialty" and know that I deserve so much better. But I don't want to abandon her nor our kids...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> So YES...fault on BOTH SIDES HERE, I am not faultless by any means. I could have NEVER been as patient as him under those circumstances. I don't understand this sort of passivity. I couldn't have lived with it -if the shoes were reversed.


I think men are generally more passive in regards to sexual expectations then women are. Not always, but in general. I think this comes from the world we live in now.

When a wife rejects a husband, that's nothing new. Look at this forum, everyday a few husbands join the ranks of thousands before who have come here complaining about not getting enough sex. It's so common, that in one new post from last night that I just read, a guy comes here complaining, doesn't really ask a question but was looking for feedback, and the first response to his post is from someone saying they don't know what he wants to hear, but this place is full of people like you so unless you have a real question, get in line. It's totally common for men to be rejected by their wives. So common, it's almost expected.

Perhaps your husband was passive because, deep down, that's what he thought was supposed to happen, that his wife will tell him when, why, what and how often?

In my marriage, that's basically what I did. I grew up in a a family where affection was rarely shown in front of the kids, so rare that I can only remember a handful of time my parents kissing each other, and always when my mom went to my dad. I'm sure they were aggressive elsewhere, but not in front of us. I'm not sure if this was even on purpose because, as I said, the issue of sex, affection, love, etc. was never discussed in our household. Likely if I had asked about it, it would have been discussed, but it didn't even occur to me to discuss it because it seemed so taboo. I knew my dad was 'into' women because of how he'd act when mom wasn't around and I was, but that was rare because dad worked two jobs and I could actually go a week without seeing him at times, outside of maybe at supper time.

So when I got involved with my wife, at first the sex was all the time. It was daily, sometimes multiple times a day. Eventually that fell off...and fell off... and fell off, to the point it was, in a good month, two times. To go weeks without wasn't uncommon for me.

But I didn't know any better. Based on what information I had (and this was back in the late 90's, so the internet wasn't what it is today), mostly derived from my family and from TV, men were supposed to want sex and women were supposed to not really be interested. You see it all the time in TV shows back then and even now. Seeing a sexually aggressive women was reserved for shows like 'Girls Gone Wild' and I knew that wasn't how things typically went.

So in my marriage, when the sex dropped off, for a long time I just thought that's what everyone elses marriage did as well. You got married, had kids, and that was about it. You had sex once in a while, but generally not very often and when you did, it was when the wife 'allowed' it. 

I'm not sure about your husband, but I know I never had any friends I could talk to about sex and expectations regarding sex. Even my really good friends, I couldn't 100% trust that they wouldn't talk about it to their wives, and their wives were friends with my wife, and I knew it'd go badly if word got back to my wife that I was discussing our sex life with anyone. With my family, I had a longstanding belief (still do to a large degree) that you take care of your problems in house. My mom and dad never actually told me that, so it's likely my own fault for being like that, but my dad was such an amazing man and it seemed like there was no problem that he couldn't solve. I felt like a failure if I couldn't solve my problems, like I was less manly or something, so I'd never let him know I was weak. Counselling meanwhile was out of the question, both financially, egotistically for me (once again, solve my own problems, don't show weakness, etc.) and because I know my wife would have freaked if I had gone.

So instead of having an outlet, I stayed and I assumed that this is how marriage was. I didn't know better. It wasn't until I started talking to a co-worker, someone who I didn't care if they knew my problems and someone who was very unlikely to ever repeat it in a fashion to which it'd get back to my wife or friends or family, that I began to understand what I could have and that sex isn't just for single people. Marriage is actually strengthened through sex, and can easily be derailed by a lack there of. 

Sorry for the long winded, crying on the therapists couch statement here, but I can understand why your husband may have been passive. He may genuienely felt that that's just the way things are, that he should be quiet about sex and be grateful for what he gets. Fear of rocking the boat can prevent you from pushing for what you want and need, as can a lack of understanding why you should be able to rock the boat in the first place.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

moG247 said:


> missymrs80 and SimplyAmorous do you suggest a husband take this approach if his wife has been raped in the past prior to their marriage? Because my wife was raped during her time in the military and that puts a serious strain on our physical relationship... I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but if I would have known then when I said "I do" what I know now, it's a strong chance that I would've said "I don't..." I don't know how much longer I can continue to walk around on eggshells and pay for something I didn't do. We've been married for 16yrs, and all I can take it is one day at a time. Don't get me wrong, I haven't always been a saint or a good husband; I've had infidelities in the past she knows about and I used to drink, smoke, and party our check away. But I've been trying to do better in the ladder years of marriage and accepted Jesus in my heart 5 years ago. And it seems like since then she has gotten worse, she has had several EA's in the last couple of years (none of them evolved to a PA to my knowledge) and even though the affairs are over she still turns me down and rejects my advances. I help around the house; dishes, laundry, bathroom, etc. I compliment her and open doors on a regular basis... So I've come a long way, but it feels like it's for nothing. She still blame her distance and lack of physical affection with me on her past and mental mindset. I'm Saved now and refuse to go out and satisfy my physical hunger outside of our marriage and don't want to leave or divorce her neither (I have always and will always Love her); but it's getting hard to keep this going.
> 
> I apologize for turning my question into a vent section, I'll get off my soapbox now; lol.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You guys have A LOT of stuff going on....PTSD is real...triggers of traumatic events are real. It's her responsibility to get treatment for that. She may choose not to though. If she has frequent triggers that lead to her disassociating, EMDR therapy is helpful. Are you in any 12 step programs? If untreated addiction is present in your relationship, you will NEVER have a healthy fulfilling marriage. The denial on both ends might make it seem it's possible, but it's not. Read...after the affair; getting the love you want; and courage to heal for her AND there is a courage to heal book for spouses as well.


No I don't recommend anyone doing what I said in my initial post if their partner has untreated PTSD or unresolved traumas regarding rape or abuse. I have never been sexually abused, inappropriately touched, or raped.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

missymrs80 said:


> No I don't recommend anyone doing what I said in my initial post if their partner has untreated PTSD or unresolved traumas regarding rape or abuse. I have never been sexually abused, inappropriately touched, or raped.


And right there is why my wife reacted like she did. Its also something so personal and deep, that she didn't 'let me in' on it. She mentioned it once while dating, but sort of brushed it off as it was a 'long time ago'. She'd never really dealt with the trauma (as I found out the hard way a decade later) and she dug into it during IC. The sexless started almost right after married... it was a commodity, not a emotional thing. Then the trigger event; This is when she went off the deep end and began the adultery.... And I was in the dark the whole time, so the way I handled it was wrong back then; More pressure, guilt and shame piled onto her..

If you are a secondary survivor (what they call those of us married to someone like that), google around. There are specific forums where you can find a lot of help.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

kingsfan said:


> Perhaps your husband was passive because, deep down, that's what he thought was supposed to happen, that his wife will tell him when, why, what and how often?
> 
> In my marriage, that's basically what I did.* I grew up in a a family where affection was rarely shown in front of the kids, so rare that I can only remember a handful of time my parents kissing each other,* and always when my mom went to my dad. I'm sure they were aggressive elsewhere, but not in front of us. I'm not sure if this was even on purpose because, as I said, *the issue of sex, affection, love, etc. was never discussed in our household*. Likely if I had asked about it, it would have been discussed, but it didn't even occur to me to discuss it *because it seemed so t**aboo*.


BINGO- this was EXACTLY my husband's growing up experience. For the record, ours is NOTHING like this... we openly share & express affection in front of our kids - we feel this is healthy. We also talk about sex to our teenagers. We have a good old time, our teen boys even get a little naughty -going around putting "69" on my microwave & timers - (this must sound half crazy) but they are boys in puberty, their minds are overtaken and well... Mom is pretty cool about it -getting a good :rofl:.



> So in my marriage, when the sex dropped off, for a long time I just thought that's what everyone elses marriage did as well. You got married, had kids, and that was about it. You had sex once in a while, but generally not very often and when you did, it was when the wife 'allowed' it.


 My husband has told me (in hindsite)...he didn't want to rock the boat -because all the guys at work were getting less ....at least I always initiated -and enjoyed sex. 

So he just played passive, I know he felt on top of this world when I came to him...he still got me going when he TRIED...pretty much every time... I recall falling asleep on him a time or 2 while he was still touching me only to wake up, get aroused & we went at it -his patience level was un freaking believable.. he never was much of a flirter though... I Think this would have really spiced up the mood -a little verbal -he was just too "quiet". He still is... this bugs me at times. 



> I'm not sure about your husband, but I know I never had any friends I could talk to about sex and expectations regarding sex. Even my really good friends, I couldn't 100% trust that they wouldn't talk about it to their wives, and their wives were friends with my wife, and I knew it'd go badly if word got back to my wife that I was discussing our sex life with anyone.


 I am not this type of wife, very OPEN and It wouldn't bother me a bit if he talked to his friends about such things -though he wouldn't bring up such a subject, only if others did , and with the guys at work, he joined in cracking those jokes that he only had sex 6 times (= 6 kids) (back then).

I am like the easiest darn woman to talk too... about ANYTHING UNDER THE SUN, yes I am opinionated, but I listen and closely... I want peace in my marriage. There was no reason on this god green earth for him to not come to me...other than his FEAR of more rejection. Which I don't believe for a second, I would have given him. We would have talked it out, he was always damn good to me and he deserved better. 

I LOVE communication, even back then, I don't falt men for having feelings , I prefer a sensitive man... we used to write mushy love letters to each other in high school, I love the SAP! I worship honestly, even if I don't want to hear it...give it to me straight...If you are mad, LET IT FLY! Me being so different from him (not passive) didn't help me understand him back then. 

Besides upbringing, he had another whammy - he has a naturally passive temperment- being a Phleg -Melancholy , combined with wanting to FEEL my "desire" on the onset , if not, in his mind, he felt less loved somehow. MY husband wouldn't raise a hand if he even entertained the idea he would be a "burden" in sex. IT would be a pure erection killer too. The near thought is repulsive to him. 




> Sorry for the long winded, crying on the therapists couch statement here, but I can understand why your husband may have been passive. He may genuienely felt that that's just the way things are, that he should be quiet about sex and be grateful for what he gets. Fear of rocking the boat can prevent you from pushing for what you want and need, as can a lack of understanding why you should be able to rock the boat in the first place.


 Well I thank you for your long windedness in this, because quite honestly, this subject came up last night between us, me reading this thread yesterday SADDENED me about our past , what we missed... I wasn't in a very good mood...and I do tend to want to blame him for his lack of talking and being more creative -when he was FEELING IT - instead of hiding it all under a bushel....so your words here GIVE ME SOME UNDERSTANDING FOR HIS MINDSET BACK THEN, like you are defending his positon. I need to hear it ! 

The problem with me is this... When I felt this way (HIGH DRIVE) ...I went out of my freaking way to turn him on -which has been wonderful (sex 5-6 times a week, variety, excitement, new novelty, I read books on how to please a man, I bought lingerie, sex games, I flirted with him, I introduced him to erotic massage, we tried new sex positions, I'd attack him when he got home pulling him upstairs for a BJ, wore heels cooking breakfast, planned Romantic HOT getaways, we rented porn, I talked about sex, damn I could write a book ! ).... when I sit here & compare the lack of how he handled our past, it tends to get under my skin. 

But yeah.. I gotta let it go !!


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Besides upbringing, he had another whammy - he has a naturally passive temperment- being a Phleg -Melancholy , combined with wanting to FEEL my "desire" on the onset , if not, in his mind, he felt less loved somehow. MY husband wouldn't raise a hand if he even entertained the idea he would be a "burden" in sex. IT would be a pure erection killer too. The near thought is repulsive to him.


I'm glad my post helped you. That's the best thing of all to hear when you post something, so thank you for saying so!

Just a comment on the above, that's how I am. It's why I don't like 'duty' or 'chore' sex. It feels like you are forcing someone to have sex with you through emotional cohersion, and that is such a mood killer. I completely agree with your husband. As much as I may REALLY want it sometimes, if my fiancee isn't in the mood but says something along the lines of 'I guess so", I just tell her no thanks. It might piss me off, but it's still something I will pass on. It started out of respect for her, not wanting to 'force' myself on her, but it's now also evolved into a personal respect thing as well. Like 'why would I want to share myself, my being, my body, with someone who is rather 'meh' to the idea of it'? I actually think it's rather insulting to offer yourself up to someone, only have them say 'nah', or 'I guess so'. Yeah, once in a while is fine, I mean we aren't all in the mood all the time and life can get in the way such as illness, stress, etc., so once in a while this is ok but on a regular basis, it's just an insult and killjoy.


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## lifeisnotsogood (Jun 11, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> I see a lot of posts on here about this topic. I don't get it. I get that life is hard people are tired kids need you...but it seems like there are a lot of men out there suffering in silence and just sucking it up essentially so as to not stir the pot. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems like a lot of husbands out there get rejected or shut down when they approach their wife in walking on eggshells kind of way. If I'm tired and my husband does that....it's so easy to say no not to tonight I'm so tired...and on and on. So he doesn't do that now bc I think he's learned, as I have too, that it doesn't lead to sex (if I am tired/stressed). When we first got married I remember I was too tired or whatever for several days in a row. By about the 5th day of no sex he swung open the door and began unbuckling his belt and in a very matter of fact and dominant way told me to get on my hands and knees. I was shocked and didn't move and he repeated him self and told me that he wanted me and that he was going to have me. That ended up being some of the hottest sex I had ever had. I hope he never gives that up. I like knowing that I'm his and that if he wants to have me he will..it's a total turn on, even if I was totally not turned on prior. So I guess I wonder if that dominance gets lost along the years or if that approach stops working after years of marriage. Have you tried being dominate and it backfired?


Yeah i tried that. She called the cops...J.K.


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## The Chimp (Feb 14, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> I see a lot of posts on here about this topic. I don't get it. I get that life is hard people are tired kids need you...but it seems like there are a lot of men out there suffering in silence and just sucking it up essentially so as to not stir the pot. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems like a lot of husbands out there get rejected or shut down when they approach their wife in walking on eggshells kind of way. If I'm tired and my husband does that....it's so easy to say no not to tonight I'm so tired...and on and on. So he doesn't do that now bc I think he's learned, as I have too, that it doesn't lead to sex (if I am tired/stressed). When we first got married I remember I was too tired or whatever for several days in a row. By about the 5th day of no sex he swung open the door and began unbuckling his belt and in a very matter of fact and dominant way told me to get on my hands and knees. I was shocked and didn't move and he repeated him self and told me that he wanted me and that he was going to have me. That ended up being some of the hottest sex I had ever had. I hope he never gives that up. I like knowing that I'm his and that if he wants to have me he will..it's a total turn on, even if I was totally not turned on prior. So I guess I wonder if that dominance gets lost along the years or if that approach stops working after years of marriage. Have you tried being dominate and it backfired?


I'd be in a cell so ****ing quick I wouldnt know what day it was. You obviously have no idea that to a lot of women what your husband did is the same as assault. Lots of women find the idea that being "his" and that if he wants you he will are attacks on them and assaults. That this is something they are programmed to fight against and say is horrible and that you are a weak pathetic excuse of a woman for even putting up with.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

The Chimp said:


> I'd be in a cell so ****ing quick I wouldnt know what day it was. You obviously have no idea that to a lot of women what your husband did is the same as assault. Lots of women find the idea that being "his" and that if he wants you he will are attacks on them and assaults. That this is something they are programmed to fight against and say is horrible and that you are a weak pathetic excuse of a woman for even putting up with.


See I am not one of those women....I am not a feminist either... I married this man, tied myself to him in TRUST & love... therefore HIS body is mine , and my body is HIS... I share the "spirit" of 1st Corinthians 7... 



> “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” But since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband. The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife.
> 
> Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.


I never allowed a man to treat me badly and I sure as hell didn't marry that type... so for me.... if he was a little aggressive with me, there IS an assurance it is IN LOVE ...and yeah.. some of that savory LUST. (If he suddenly changed into an abuser... I would leave such a man!)... otherwise I would yeild to his "need'....and he would be very loving to access that I wasn't too tired or sick in any way to go there. --Because he operates in love. 

I guess it is all in what one believes, or how they perceive such things. I would guess that many women have felt "USED" in the past, dating relationships went sour for example, fell for Players ....they have a sour taste in their mouth about how MEN VIEW SEX just to "get off", it left them empty, even angry.....

Then when they marry....they can't just flip a switch...these things play on their psyche to some degree...even men struggle if they were in the Players shoes before marraige... to find that "sacred place" of sharing each others bodies like this...freely -givingly - with a receptive spirit attached. 

I feel that very strongly in my marraige -with complete trust, he does also, so for us... this works. Even though he is still not very aggressive, but he likes when I AM!


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

The Chimp said:


> I'd be in a cell so ****ing quick I wouldnt know what day it was. You obviously have no idea that to a lot of women what your husband did is the same as assault. Lots of women find the idea that being "his" and that if he wants you he will are attacks on them and assaults. That this is something they are programmed to fight against and say is horrible and that you are a weak pathetic excuse of a woman for even putting up with.


My husband is incredible though so its not like that. I like that if things ever get "stuck" in a bad place one of us will do something different to get us out of the "stuck" place


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

See I am not one of those women....I am not a feminist either... I married this man, tied myself to him in TRUST & love... therefore HIS body is mine , and my body is HIS... I share the "spirit" of 1st Corinthians 7... 

That's the place that I come from too amorous


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Also amorous, and chimp for that matter, my H is also prone to passivity and passivity leads me to feel unsafe as well as other things. So when he Is dominant it's his way of changing for the sake of our marriage.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

missymrs80 said:


> Also amorous, and chimp for that matter, my H is also prone to passivity and passivity leads me to feel unsafe as well as other things. So when he Is dominant it's his way of changing for the sake of our marriage.


How does his passivity lead you to feel "unsafe", I don't get that ? I don't follow. 

I might say it is a little "boring" but I've never seen it as "unsafe".....

Because my husband IS the way he IS.... there is no way in this world he is going to hurt me, he can't even stand to look upon a RAPE scene on TV.... he has said in the past, it makes him want to go out & kill someone (yes, he is exagerrating -but he feels strongly about such things)... 

What seems to save us is ...I bring a good bit of the aggressiveness to us. So it still works, but trying to get him to be more dominate, take full charge , tell me what he is going to do to me, all of that ..it's like barking up the wrong tree. Just doesn't come natural to him at all. 

He is a through & through "sensual" lover, it is all "making love" to him. Which, you know, how can I complain.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

King,
Part of having an edge is telling your wife:
Every other weekend I am slotting x hours for "guy time" with friends. Football - whatever.
As for the other stuff - shopping etc - you don't need to let the context impact the level of masculinity you show. In the clothing store:
You: i want you to model a short skirt or two for me
Her: giving you the brush off 
You: I don't care I you buy em or not - but you are going to model for me because I asked you to 

If she shuts you down - tell her your gonna go look at . Tvs, power tools, whatever you want. Don't be mad - just show some independence.

Male behavior can be overlaid in a playful way in almost any situation.

And Big bad wolf can dry off the last dish, place it in the rack, rotate in place, pick up his wife and start carrying her to the bedroom in a nice smooth, easy sequence. Because he has never let anyone feminize/castrate him




kingsfan said:


> I was replying to the issue of men and their expectations, not directly to what would and won't get someone laid.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Bc my parents never validated my fears and worries and always told me everything would be ok during times where I wanted them to do something, anything bc I felt so sure that something was not ok. These are numerous incidents over the years and not just one big thing or even a situation where something was actually wrong (and they were prob right...everything would be ok). But my fears and worries were never validated. Anyway so when my husband is passive reminds me of that. And my feeling is that I'm not safe...bc no one is taking action (regardless of whether or not they should or it's even necessary). It's just my experience and my feeling. Doesn't mean it's right.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Passivity for me means lack of action. Lack of action means I'm alone to take on the issue on my own....lack of protection, lack of guidance, lack of support.....overall leads me to not feel safe. So when he was passive I would panic.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

And I was able to identify this connection and verbalized it to him so it was easier for him to change knowing that. And if I hadn't known that I would have kept yelling at him to stop being so passive.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

With our personalities this would lead to a pretty heated, insult laden, argument. She's way too head strong to abdicate...


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

sinnister said:


> With our personalities this would lead to a pretty heated, insult laden, argument. She's way too head strong to abdicate...


I was once like that too...it was exhausting. I know now that I don't have to be that way...and that it doesn't ever actually get me whatever it was I was fighting so hard to hold onto, control mostly.


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## The Chimp (Feb 14, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> See I am not one of those women....I am not a feminist either... I married this man, tied myself to him in TRUST & love... therefore HIS body is mine , and my body is HIS... I share the "spirit" of 1st Corinthians 7...
> 
> That's the place that I come from too amorous


Those sort of women would wipe there arse on your bible. They see that as part of the oppression and the patrachy.


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## TylerJ (Aug 14, 2012)

I have enjoyed reading this discussion so much that I registered just to chime in with my two cents....!

I've been married 12 years and am generally happy with my sex life, although my drive is stronger than my wife's. But I agree with the posters above that if a man isn't getting what he needs as often as he needs it, it may be that he's treading too lightly. This doesn't mean it's OK to coerce; it's not. But it's ok to let your wife know that you need it an expect it and that you want her. NOW.

Of course, there needs to be a foundation of trust and some sexual desire on her side, or it will be akin to rape. Each situation is different, to be sure. 

Guys, there are times to make love and there are times to f**k. In my experience, women are often up for either, but they don't appreciate when you pretend you want one style when you really want the other. If you want it to be sweet, be sweet. If you need to f**k, let her know that, and that you are going to take her. And then do it. It's about honesty and trust.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

TylerJ said:


> I have enjoyed reading this discussion so much that I registered just to chime in with my two cents....!
> 
> I've been married 12 years and am generally happy with my sex life, although my drive is stronger than my wife's. But I agree with the posters above that if a man isn't getting what he needs as often as he needs it, it may be that he's treading too lightly. This doesn't mean it's OK to coerce; it's not. But it's ok to let your wife know that you need it an expect it and that you want her. NOW.
> 
> ...


Agree....

There have been times where my H hasn't taken charge when I turn down sex night after night bc I was to preoccupied doing my own thing. He would let me work on my project of the week AND still do all the nice things for me he always does. I realized what was ong on and told him he was giving my behavior positive reinforcement...which made it continue. So now we get it. Lol


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## TylerJ (Aug 14, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> Agree....
> 
> There have been times where my H hasn't taken charge when I turn down sex night after night bc I was to preoccupied doing my own thing. He would let me work on my project of the week AND still do all the nice things for me he always does. I realized what was ong on and told him he was giving my behavior positive reinforcement...which made it continue. So now we get it. Lol


Ha, yes after a while I believe it's the man's role to take charge and make it happen. There is nothing wrong with a man showing his power in bed; it's part of what makes us who we are. At our cores -- as a gross oversimplification -- men like beauty, women like power. So it's natural to "show" those attractive qualities in bed, I believe.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

MEM11363 said:


> King,
> Part of having an edge is telling your wife:
> Every other weekend I am slotting x hours for "guy time" with friends. Football - whatever.
> As for the other stuff - shopping etc - you don't need to let the context impact the level of masculinity you show. In the clothing store:
> ...


Ummm, yeah...I was commenting on society as a whole, not my own relationship. 

As well, the scenario you suggest supports my premise. When was the last time you seen a show that had a scene where a guy demanded his wife do some modelling or he's out of there? Maybe the 70's. Vice versa, you can see a few shows a year where there is a scene of some dumbass husband following his wife around the clothing store, pushing two shopping carts and towing around three kids while she goes shopping for herself.

The media image of men today is very emasculated compared to 20-30 years ago.


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## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

missymrs80 said:


> By about the 5th day of no sex he swung open the door and began unbuckling his belt and in a very matter of fact and dominant way told me to get on my hands and knees. I was shocked and didn't move and he repeated him self and told me that he wanted me and that he was going to have me. That ended up being some of the hottest sex I had ever had. I hope he never gives that up. I like knowing that I'm his and that if he wants to have me he will..it's a total turn on, even if I was totally not turned on prior. So I guess I wonder if that dominance gets lost along the years or if that approach stops working after years of marriage. Have you tried being dominate and it backfired?


DAMN!!! My "Mr. Nice Guy" reared his ugly head!! So, wanting to know how my wife would react to this BEFORE I tried it (in typical nice guy fashion) I read this to her and asked her how she would like it. So she said, "Well, now I really don't know because if you try it it won't be a surprise. It would have been better to just try it!"

So I blew it!  I really think she will like it. I guess I will wait a while and try it anyway.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

TylerJ said:


> Ha, yes after a while I believe it's the man's role to take charge and make it happen. There is nothing wrong with a man showing his power in bed; it's part of what makes us who we are. At our cores -- as a gross oversimplification -- men like beauty, women like power. So it's natural to "show" those attractive qualities in bed, I believe.


I think there's probably some important differences in perception regarding the thread title. 

Maybe it should have been, "To husbands of wives who are not always interested in sex" or something similar

"Deny" is a verbal negation. --A synonym for, "Refuse." 

"No" means "No" even in a marriage. A man can try to change that "No" to a "Yes" in various ways, but demanding and physically taking what he wants is not one of them.


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## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

ocotillo said:


> I think there's probably some important differences in perception regarding the thread title.
> 
> Maybe it should have been, "To husbands of wives who are not always interested in sex" or something similar
> 
> ...


I don't see it the way some of you are seeing it. We are NOT talking about marital rape here. Maybe it is because of my situation. My wife is very much the responder. She rarely initiates and she seems much like the OP. I think she really wants to feel desired. Last time she got her hair done she looked really HOT!! When I saw her I took her in my arms and said, "You look so hot...I've got to have you!!!" She loved it...BUT she said, "This is really hot, but I am exhausted. Can we wait until tomorrow." So we waited (as hard as that was for me) and it was hot!! 

I think the point here is that many women find it hot when their hubby desires them this way. Of course, there can be so many other problems in a marriage, so much built up resentment, that this will not work.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

ocotillo said:


> I think there's probably some important differences in perception regarding the thread title.
> 
> Maybe it should have been, "To husbands of wives who are not always interested in sex" or something similar
> 
> ...


I am not always interested in sex and still have sex....and the funny thing is it doesn't take but a minute for me to become very interested.

So yes....I think deny refuse whatever is the right term. If you told your wife "Im not interested in listeningtoyoutalk anymore. And I'm really too tired to meet you emotional needs. .." you would be denying her that emotional connection women need. Is any man interested in talking about feelings all day? Prob not. Do some do so anyway?


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

romantic_guy said:


> DAMN!!! My "Mr. Nice Guy" reared his ugly head!! So, wanting to know how my wife would react to this BEFORE I tried it (in typical nice guy fashion) I read this to her and asked her how she would like it. So she said, "Well, now I really don't know because if you try it it won't be a surprise. It would have been better to just try it!"
> 
> So I blew it!  I really think she will like it. I guess I will wait a while and try it anyway.


I'd be willing to bet she is going to give you the opportunity soon. Be on the lookout...it's easy too miss!


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> Kingsfan, I would find it quite difficult to meet my husbands needs if he were stonewalling me, spanking our kids, giving money to strippers instead of giving money to me, and wasting his juice on porn rather than letting me enjoy it. My husband is king bust trust me when I say I am his queen.


I agree, that to me is being an a hole not a man.
I like a confident take charge man, who also values me and our children and would never do things to endanger our relationship. How ever it's a two way street.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Seawolf (Oct 10, 2011)

The Chimp said:


> Those sort of women would wipe there arse on your bible. They see that as part of the oppression and the patrachy.


Why in the world would you marry someone so disrespectful of your needs and other's beliefs. This is the definition of a living nightmare who needs to be put to the street


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## Seawolf (Oct 10, 2011)

missymrs80 said:


> I'd be willing to bet she is going to give you the opportunity soon. Be on the lookout...it's easy too miss!


Agreed. It isn't the surprise so much as it is the strength and confidence. A test is definitely headed his way


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## Feelingdown (Aug 13, 2012)

Interesting read.

I do wonder though, is dominance something that gets all women going? Are there no exceptions?

In my own marriage I've seen my wife responsd pretty well to it, though I've never had to crank it up a notch as she doesn't put up much of a fight even when she's tired. It would be interesting to see what would happen if I tried doing what was mentioned in the OP.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Feelingdown said:


> Interesting read.
> 
> I do wonder though, is dominance something that gets all women going? Are there no exceptions?.


That's actually where I find things get interesting with my wife. She does react to the dominance thing and a ‘aggressive’ sexual posture... yet there is also a extreme internal struggle with control. So the reaction is more like _'part of me is just dripping with the idea'_ and the other part is screaming _'no one controls me or tells me what to do'_.... So, she’s a basket case and the reactions can be ‘varied’ and ‘risky’ for me.


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## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

missymrs80 said:


> I am not always interested in sex and still have sex....and the funny thing is it doesn't take but a minute for me to become very interested.


I have discovered that bout my wife. The term is "responsive desire". Here is a great blog about it:

do you know when you want it? | the dirty normal

That has always been the case with her. I thought that was just her until I read this and discovered that MANY women are like this. It is nothing personal or that she does not desire me...it is just not in the forefront of her thinking like it is with me. In fact, she can have her best orgasms when she started being sexually neutral.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

missymrs80 said:


> Feminism has ruined lives. I think feminism is really a sick joke and has ended up ruining women's lives but for some reason no one is saying....hey, wait a minute here...


You're my new hero. I agree with this completely. I don't think my husband could be feminine if he tried, but I still agree that our society favors women so much more than men.


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## SurpriseMyself (Nov 14, 2009)

BeachGuy said:


> I will never understand why some women (my stbx included) deny their spouses. You give a man good, consistent, fun sex and he will do anything in the world for you forever. It's so easy, yet so many just won't do it.
> 
> As bad as my marriage is now, as unattracted as I am to her now, and me about to file for divorce, yet still.....if she walked in the bathroom tomorrow morning and got in the shower with me, I wouldn't file just yet. Hell I don't want to break up my family. But no sex is non-negotiable.
> 
> I'll never understand. So easy to fix it all.


Can't speak for anyone but myself, but if the emotional connection is broken, I don't want to have sex. It may be "easy" to give you that emotional connection, but will you give it back to her outside the bedroom? If so, you've got a recipe to save your marriage. If not, then you have only 1/2 a solution.


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## SurpriseMyself (Nov 14, 2009)

Feelingdown said:


> I do wonder though, is dominance something that gets all women going? Are there no exceptions?


Speaking only for me, if the relationship is solid then dominance can be exciting and fun. If the relationship is in the toilet, a move like the OP described would go over like a lead balloon.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

The Chimp said:


> Those sort of women would wipe there arse on your bible. They see that as part of the oppression and the patrachy.


Hell, even self-described Christian women ignore this part of the Bible. You will hear excuses "well, that part is not literal", "if you had more self-control I would not have to, so it's your problem", "that requirement is secondary to your requirement to make me feel protected", etc. Pop on over to The Marriage Bed and check around some, and you'll see what I mean.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

DTO said:


> Hell, even self-described Christian women ignore this part of the Bible. You will hear excuses "well, that part is not literal", "if you had more self-control I would not have to, so it's your problem", "that requirement is secondary to your requirement to make me feel protected", etc. Pop on over to The Marriage Bed and check around some, and you'll see what I mean.


This is something that saddens me. My husband and I are both Christians, and looking back on our youth, we _hate_ how sex was approached. For the first year of our marriage I struggled between feeling sexy and desiring my husband, and feeling guilty for wanting him so much. I've, in turn, completely rejected almost all of the "advice" I was given before getting married. I don't even visit Christian forums any longer beause the condemnation and negativity regarding sex is so toxic. I like sex and want to wear flattering clothes? Oh, that means I'm a sl*ut. Show any amount of cleavage whatsoever? Oh, that means I'm trying to lure other men to look at me. Talk about sex on a public forum in a positive way? Oh, that means I just want a load of attention. *rolls eyes* I mean, come on. 

My husband and I don't believe in "I have the right to say no when I want" mentality. Although both of us have said no a number of times to other, it's never been because we have the right to do so. It's always been for legitimate reasons. And it's never been that sex is "his thing". It's always been "our thing", and emotioanlly speaking, nothing satisfies me more than sex with my husband.


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## WishIknew5 (Dec 20, 2010)

missymrs80 said:


> I see a lot of posts on here about this topic. I don't get it. I get that life is hard people are tired kids need you...but it seems like there are a lot of men out there suffering in silence and just sucking it up essentially so as to not stir the pot. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems like a lot of husbands out there get rejected or shut down when they approach their wife in walking on eggshells kind of way. If I'm tired and my husband does that....it's so easy to say no not to tonight I'm so tired...and on and on. So he doesn't do that now bc I think he's learned, as I have too, that it doesn't lead to sex (if I am tired/stressed). When we first got married I remember I was too tired or whatever for several days in a row. By about the 5th day of no sex he swung open the door and began unbuckling his belt and in a very matter of fact and dominant way told me to get on my hands and knees. I was shocked and didn't move and he repeated him self and told me that he wanted me and that he was going to have me. That ended up being some of the hottest sex I had ever had. I hope he never gives that up. I like knowing that I'm his and that if he wants to have me he will..it's a total turn on, even if I was totally not turned on prior. So I guess I wonder if that dominance gets lost along the years or if that approach stops working after years of marriage. Have you tried being dominate and it backfired?


All I got was "YEAH RIGHT" and a rejection again. I can be very dominant...but in a way its hard to be that way when the other person doesnt quite accept it.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

missymrs80 said:


> I am not always interested in sex and still have sex....and the funny thing is it doesn't take but a minute for me to become very interested.
> 
> So yes....I think deny refuse whatever is the right term. If you told your wife "Im not interested in listeningtoyoutalk anymore. And I'm really too tired to meet you emotional needs. .." you would be denying her that emotional connection women need. Is any man interested in talking about feelings all day? Prob not. Do some do so anyway?


With respect, missymrs80, I think you're drawing a distinction between active and passive action.

Don't misunderstand. I do know what you're driving at. I understand that "denial" can be the indirect result of a prolonged pattern of disinterest and apathy. After all is said and done, the lack of sex is just as real as if the person had come right out and said, "No."

But when a verb is used in the present active indicative, then an indirect result is at best a nuanced meaning that doesn't follow from a simple parsing of the sentence. (When that happens in English composition, we put the word in quotes.) 

Like I said, if a show of "dominance" works for you and your husband, that's a good thing. But sparks won't start a fire unless they land on something flammable, so I'm sure you would agree that it requires at least a latent interest in sex as well as a certain amount of playfulness on your part for this to work (?) 

I could easily be wrong, but I've gotten a different impression from most of the stories of sexually dysfunctional couples here on TAM. The "denial' of sex is not something that is simply implied.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

Feelingdown said:


> Interesting read.
> I do wonder though, is dominance something that gets all women going? Are there no exceptions?


I think a wife who holds a _Scientiae Juridicae_ may be one notable exception


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## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

Created2Write said:


> This is something that saddens me. My husband and I are both Christians, and looking back on our youth, we _hate_ how sex was approached. For the first year of our marriage I struggled between feeling sexy and desiring my husband, and feeling guilty for wanting him so much. I've, in turn, completely rejected almost all of the "advice" I was given before getting married. I don't even visit Christian forums any longer beause the condemnation and negativity regarding sex is so toxic. I like sex and want to wear flattering clothes? Oh, that means I'm a sl*ut. Show any amount of cleavage whatsoever? Oh, that means I'm trying to lure other men to look at me. Talk about sex on a public forum in a positive way? Oh, that means I just want a load of attention. *rolls eyes* I mean, come on.
> 
> My husband and I don't believe in "I have the right to say no when I want" mentality. Although both of us have said no a number of times to other, it's never been because we have the right to do so. It's always been for legitimate reasons. And it's never been that sex is "his thing". It's always been "our thing", and emotioanlly speaking, nothing satisfies me more than sex with my husband.


We are also Christians and I COMPLETELY agree with you!!! However, I believe that is you really read the Bible with all of those preconditioned puritanical views it supports what you are saying. Look up "The Sexperiment" written by a pastor in Texas. I am glad that some churches are teaching healthy sexuality in marriage. I think my signature says it all.


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## jaharthur (May 25, 2012)

Feelingdown said:


> I do wonder though, is dominance something that gets all women going? Are there no exceptions?


I think there is a distinction between taking the initiative and dominance. And I can assure you that there are many, many women who aren't aroused by being dominated.


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## Jimbob82 (Jun 29, 2012)

Agree with the above. My ***** footing around was getting me nowhere, so I tried a dominant approach on my wife, arms round waist, neck kiss, dirty talk, and she basically shoved me off and went to sleep on the sofa. Its like, meet me half way sometime!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kev23 (Aug 16, 2012)

When my wife and I were separated, and why she told me this, I don't know, maybe to clue me in...she was in outside of a bar at the end of the night standing next to a car, when a "hot" looking guy rolled down the window, grabbed her hair by the nape of her neck and suggestively pulled her head into the open window and said "oh the things I want to do to you, I would f*** the s*** out of you", and proceeded to put her hand on his crotch, before reaching down her shirt and bra to pinch her nipple. I was appalled that a stranger would do that, and asked "what did you do", to which she replied "what do you day to that, nothing...he was hot". Luckily for me, she was with friends and had a bit of a drive home, otherwise it sounds to me like a trip to his hotel room was in order. She denies that, but did admit to wanting to take the invitation for after hours food. 

I took this info, and one evening after we were sexual again, told her to "get on your knees and suck my d***". It did not work, despite saying that was what she wanted, a take charge, dominant, attention demanding man. So...I don't know about this theory. I tried...maybe it was that it was coming from her husband it wasn't as exciting.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

kev23 said:


> When my wife and I were separated, and why she told me this, I don't know, maybe to clue me in...she was in outside of a bar at the end of the night standing next to a car, when a "hot" looking guy rolled down the window, grabbed her hair by the nape of her neck and suggestively pulled her head into the open window and said "oh the things I want to do to you, I would f*** the s*** out of you", and proceeded to put her hand on his crotch, before reaching down her shirt and bra to pinch her nipple. I was appalled that a stranger would do that, and asked "what did you do", to which she replied "what do you day to that, nothing...he was hot". Luckily for me, she was with friends and had a bit of a drive home, otherwise it sounds to me like a trip to his hotel room was in order. She denies that, but did admit to wanting to take the invitation for after hours food.
> 
> I took this info, and one evening after we were sexual again, told her to "get on your knees and suck my d***". It did not work, despite saying that was what she wanted, a take charge, dominant, attention demanding man. So...I don't know about this theory. I tried...maybe it was that it was coming from her husband it wasn't as exciting.


I don't think you followed the theory though. You two had been separated (not sure why) and you told her to suck YOU off. That stranger essentially said she was so hot that he wanted HER badly. See the difference.


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## kev23 (Aug 16, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> I don't think you followed the theory though. You two had been separated (not sure why) and you told her to suck YOU off. That stranger essentially said she was so hot that he wanted HER badly. See the difference.


Yes, but this was after she said she liked it when a couple of ex's used to do that. I see what you are saying though. The hair pull/lusty words did make her instantly wet, while on her way home, she arranged to have another guy home waiting for her to get there so she could suck him off. You can see my post on why we got separated pretty close to this one if you care to.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> Whatever happened to the guys like Rambo and Chuck Norris and Stallone who simply kicked the door in and kicked some ass. No need for love story underlines, no need for contemplation and doubt, just some take charge, alpha male ass kicking.


They're in the Expendables movies! 

:smthumbup:


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## Interlocutor (Dec 29, 2011)

I think sometimes just being a husband might already disqualify you from ever succeeding with the dominant approach... With a stranger, the wife would never see the guy again maybe, preventing her from feeling the guilt of acting like a "*****" according to her social programming.... Sometimes, because of societal parameters, the husband just can't win. Not all women are cut out for long term marriages (of course the same is true for some men).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Interlocutor said:


> I think sometimes just being a husband might already disqualify you from ever succeeding with the dominant approach... With a stranger, the wife would never see the guy again maybe, preventing her from feeling the guilt of acting like a "*****" according to her social programming.... Sometimes, because of societal parameters, the husband just can't win. Not all women are cut out for long term marriages (of course the same is true for some men).
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What do u mean when you say..."bc of societal parameters the husband just can't win" ??


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## Interlocutor (Dec 29, 2011)

missymrs80 said:


> What do u mean when you say..."bc of societal parameters the husband just can't win" ??


Because of programming that creates guilt in some women after acting a certain way, viz. lustful, aroused, etc. as can be found in much of today's culture and religion's distorted and negative view of sex in many cases, these women, if married, might never allow themselves to pleasantly respond to their husbands doing the exact same thing to which they might respond positively from a stranger instead... A theory I believe has anectdotal evidence from many wives and husbands I personally know, many good friends of mine.

The husband, in some cases, would literally have to become a completely different person, which is physically impossible, for some of this to work with his wife, again, in SOME cases. 

Related to this is how role-playing is exciting for many healthy couples. Even in the healthiest couples where both partners attract and love each other while knowing each other intimately, these same partners will sometimes still find heightened excitement in acting like two people who don't know each other (or that act like someone whom they don't know.)

At any rate, for spouses NOT like this, you may have a wife or husband who will be attracted to dominant and aggressive sexual advances only when coming from a stranger, and this same spouse will dysfunctionally always reject, no matter what their spouse tries, ANY advance that comes from their own spouse, citing falsely that their spouse "just didn't do it right." This may be happening to some users here. If it is, they are put on a wild goose chase to "do it right" which would never work. Again, some men and women are just not capable of sustaining a close relationship with another. They will always need the excitement of the unknown, something that is in even the marriage-healthy among us to a small degree, which is evidenced by the allure of role-playing and fantasy romances, porn, etc.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Racer said:


> That's actually where I find things get interesting with my wife. She does react to the dominance thing and a ‘aggressive’ sexual posture... yet there is also a extreme internal struggle with control. So the reaction is more like _'part of me is just dripping with the idea'_ and the other part is screaming _'no one controls me or tells me what to do'_.... So, she’s a basket case and the reactions can be ‘varied’ and ‘risky’ for me.


I believe my fiancee would be the same way (haven't tried it and don't really have a lot of interest personally). I think she would like the idea of a dominant or aggressive man, but at the same time is very rooted in standing her ground and not being 'told' what to do, even in play, likely wouldn't fly with that part of herself.



WishIknew5 said:


> All I got was "YEAH RIGHT" and a rejection again. I can be very dominant...but in a way its hard to be that way when the other person doesnt quite accept it.


I don't think you can be dominant if the other person rarely responses favorably. That's not what dominant is IMO.



jaquen said:


> They're in the Expendables movies!
> 
> :smthumbup:


Hence why I'm going to see them. To bad they can't clone these guys and bring them back as 20 year olds again. It's refreshing to watch someone get blown away just because he's a bad guy. No explaination needed.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Interlocutor said:


> Because of programming that creates guilt in some women after acting a certain way, viz. lustful, aroused, etc. as can be found in much of today's culture and religion's distorted and negative view of sex in many cases, these women, if married, might never allow themselves to pleasantly respond to their husbands doing the exact same thing to which they might respond positively from a stranger instead... A theory I believe has anectdotal evidence from many wives and husbands I personally know, many good friends of mine.
> 
> The husband, in some cases, would literally have to become a completely different person, which is physically impossible, for some of this to work with his wife, again, in SOME cases.
> 
> ...


Ah yes...bc getting close and vulnerable means you are taking a "risk". Many people would rather never know a real true deep connection and love than to make that risk.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Racer and Kingsfan.....my control issues were crazy and thru the roof. They still can be so it's a work in progress but omg it really feels amazing to let that go...and not be on guard..and not be in control. I really feel so much happier.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

I read the surrendered wife.....my husband pretty much did A touchdown dance when I showed him the book for the first time.


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## MarriageStudent (Jul 4, 2016)

Missy, 
Thanks so much for your honesty. (I'm the husband. 25 years. Post menopausal)

I was going on about a year and a half, which I guess is a bit longer than 5 days.

Your post inspired me.

Without going into too many details, after about 10 minutes of resistant wrestling, we headed upstairs.

Again, no details offered, but I'm very grateful for you putting yourself on the line like you did. It may have really helped my marriage.

(trying to figure out how to post this anonymously ... worst case is my kids find it)


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Never had it back fire.

M2 likes the 'take no prisoners' approach. 

She uses it herself now and then.




missymrs80 said:


> I see a lot of posts on here about this topic. I don't get it. I get that life is hard people are tired kids need you...but it seems like there are a lot of men out there suffering in silence and just sucking it up essentially so as to not stir the pot. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems like a lot of husbands out there get rejected or shut down when they approach their wife in walking on eggshells kind of way. If I'm tired and my husband does that....it's so easy to say no not to tonight I'm so tired...and on and on. So he doesn't do that now bc I think he's learned, as I have too, that it doesn't lead to sex (if I am tired/stressed). When we first got married I remember I was too tired or whatever for several days in a row. By about the 5th day of no sex he swung open the door and began unbuckling his belt and in a very matter of fact and dominant way told me to get on my hands and knees. I was shocked and didn't move and he repeated him self and told me that he wanted me and that he was going to have me. That ended up being some of the hottest sex I had ever had. I hope he never gives that up. I like knowing that I'm his and that if he wants to have me he will..it's a total turn on, even if I was totally not turned on prior. So I guess I wonder if that dominance gets lost along the years or if that approach stops working after years of marriage. Have you tried being dominate and it backfired?


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

Wow. I have found this thread so interesting.

I am younger (in my early 30's) and I struggle so much with sex and dominance and attraction and sex roles.

Up until recently, I would have reacted to sexual dominance as something that was disrespectful. It would have made me angry and upset if my husband just demanded things or was a little more forceful, because, in my mind, that would have been going against everything that women these days are taught to believe.

Yet, when I watch porn, I enjoy watching porn where the man is more forceful and in control, and honestly, when thinking about anyone other than my husband, I would love it if things were a little rough I guess.

It's so odd how the mind works. Why does it feel so wrong to want the man to take control and toss me around a bit? In my mind, I think I'd enjoy it, but then I wonder if in reality it might just make me feel pissed off.

I can't get over the perception that dominance = disrespect or degradation. Can some of the dominating men describe what it is about dominating that they enjoy? Do you want to degrade your partner? Is it just a need to feel "manly?"

I want to understand more so I can get over the stupid hangups I have!


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

The other thing I wonder is what women get out of it too? Those who enjoy it, why?

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

@PatriciaLee, you will probably get more responses to your posts if you start a new thread. This one hasn't been active in 2 years.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

PatriciaLee said:


> Wow. I have found this thread so interesting.
> 
> I am younger (in my early 30's) and I struggle so much with sex and dominance and attraction and sex roles.
> 
> ...


it's like dancing. the man leads. 

when a man tosses a woman around while dancing, is it degrading or just fun? 

don't overthink it.


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## wantshelp (Mar 10, 2016)

missymrs80 said:


> Ok but....have you guys ever REALLY tried to take control of the situation. My husband is sweet wonderful loving....all that good stuff so of course that is a crucial part of me being turned on by his leadership in our marriage.


Y'all have a great foundation. The complete trust you mentioned is EXACTLY why this works for him and you. Without that it falls apart quickly.


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## wantshelp (Mar 10, 2016)

wantshelp said:


> Y'all have a great foundation. The complete trust you mentioned is EXACTLY why this works for him and you. Without that it falls apart quickly.


Oh, didn't notice how old this thread was...


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

@PatriciaLee , I would love to discuss this in open forum with you and others. I agree that opening up a new topic would be the best way. Then we wouldn't be distracted by the comments of 4 years ago. I did try to write an answer to your questions here but just the first question went into the too long for comfort size. 

The discussion will likely discuss Affirmative consent, Power relationships vs. balanced partnerships, The attractiveness of Confidence, and Abuse. 

Please let us know when you set this up.
MN


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Anon1111 said:


> when a man tosses a woman around while dancing, is it degrading or just fun?
> 
> don't overthink it.


:toast:


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

Will set up a topic tonight when the kids are in bed ! I really want to explore this!

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk


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## rileyawes (Jun 28, 2016)

It's nice this all worked for the OP and her husband, but it definitely doesn't work for all marriages. Some women don't like to be dominated, thus their husbands shouldn't try it expecting it to work. It's all about communication. Women who don't like being dominated are not "broken" or "victims" of feminism.

Feminism is a good thing. It means women have more options and freedom now than in the past. Everyone doesn't have to be a surrendered wife, and not every man wants a surrendered wife. Life's a rich tapestry and so on and so forth. 

I don't think anyone is owed sex just because they're married. A healthy woman wouldn't want to be married to and be obligated to have sex with Don Draper or something. Sex, for me, is an indication that my marriage is going well with no major issues that need to be addressed. Intimacy is (at least) satisfactory, communication is going well, and we feel close and totally trust each other. It's more likely to be making love than f*cking. I can **** any stranger off the street. I want to bond with and show my love to my husband.

My no means no, whereas "eh, I'm not really feeling into it tonight" or "I dunno, babe..." are potential starting points for negotiation, lol. Even an "I'm tired" can and has been circumvented. No = "No." "I don't want to." "Not tonight" 

Looking forward to the thread about dominance! Will be interesting.


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## lostandhelpless (Jun 13, 2016)

i'm sorry but if my h tried that he would get a nice hand print across his face. i am NOT his personal sex slave, he would get sex when and if want it and that is final.

men think they have complete control of us and we have to be intimate with our spouses if they want it. this is not the middle east and i will not submit at the drop of a hat. if i'm tired, let me rest, if i'm busy, let me finish what i'm doing.


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

lostandhelpless said:


> i'm sorry but if my h tried that he would get a nice hand print across his face. i am NOT his personal sex slave, he would get sex when and if want it and that is final.
> 
> men think they have complete control of us and we have to be intimate with our spouses if they want it. this is not the middle east and i will not submit at the drop of a hat. if i'm tired, let me rest, if i'm busy, let me finish what i'm doing.


And, how is that working out for you?


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## lostandhelpless (Jun 13, 2016)

karole said:


> And, how is that working out for you?


i would rather be single and able to date than to be a slave to a man through marriage. i am learning that men are mean, hateful people with only a concern for their needs. my h is taking everything i have in our divorce and i already had nothing. i make less than 30k per year and had to move into my dad's house with no car. that is what a man will get you when you allow that slavery "marriage license" to be drawn up.


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## DrSher (Jul 17, 2016)

lostandhelpless said:


> i would rather be single and able to date than to be a slave to a man through marriage. i am learning that men are mean, hateful people with only a concern for their needs. my h is taking everything i have in our divorce and i already had nothing. i make less than 30k per year and had to move into my dad's house with no car. that is what a man will get you when you allow that slavery "marriage license" to be drawn up.


 I also went through a crappy marriage and messy divorce, but you have to soul search and move on. 

Selfishness is an innate thing. Very few people are truly altruistic without secondary gains. 

Sorry things did not work out. Please don't blame all our men though.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

BeachGuy said:


> I will never understand why some women (my stbx included) deny their spouses. You give a man good, consistent, fun sex and he will do anything in the world for you forever. It's so easy, yet so many just won't do it.
> 
> As bad as my marriage is now, as unattracted as I am to her now, and me about to file for divorce, yet still.....if she walked in the bathroom tomorrow morning and got in the shower with me, I wouldn't file just yet. Hell I don't want to break up my family. But no sex is non-negotiable.
> 
> I'll never understand. So easy to fix it all.


Nice post.

My wife declined sex often during our 25 year marriage. Now, not so much, if ever. One of the things we changed was to schedule sex. I was ALWAYS against it, but we decided to try and find out.

We both decided that twice a week would work for both of us. High for her and low for me, so we both compromised. Now, every friggen Tuesday and Friday we have sex come hell or high water.

It's been the best thing we have done for our sex life in 25 years.

Things ALWAYS come up. However, if you expect to have sex on certain days and you KNOW it's going to happen, you plan around it.
You both must make it a priority. Now, no initiation is necessary. We simply know if it's Tuesday or Friday, we ARE going to have sex unless my penis falls off.

It has not effected the passion negatively at all. In fact, we both would agree that 25 years in, we are having the very best sex of our lives.


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

To me this is partly a "willingness to be lead." If the woman is wired to allow a man to take charge, and he's not willing to, then there's problems. But if she isn't wired that way, or is totally inconsistent, then it's pretty tough for a guy to take charge. 

In my situation, my wife doesn't say no, but the yeses are mostly duty sex and she has found ways to avoid saying no directly by staying up late and sleeping late, so that our schedules are not lined up. I can force the issue, and get sex, but I can't get enthusiasm. And having someone submit to you, is not the same as have someone who is willing and turned on by assertiveness. 

It feels like my wife views me as a competitor in some ways, and the fact that I make more money and have more material success bothers her. So for a power dynamic to work, I think a couple needs to view themselves as a team. In my marriage we don't have that, so if I lead in the bedroom sometime's it's well received and sometime it's met with passive aggressive submission. 

The inconsistency it too hard to deal with, so I've mostly checked out.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

seeking sanity said:


> In my situation, my wife doesn't say no, but the yeses are mostly duty sex and she has found ways to avoid saying no directly by staying up late and sleeping late, so that our schedules are not lined up. I can force the issue, and get sex, but I can't get enthusiasm. And having someone submit to you, is not the same as have someone who is willing and turned on by assertiveness.


Staying up late and or sleeping late doesn't preclude having sex before bedtime.


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

Personal said:


> Staying up late and or sleeping late doesn't preclude having sex before bedtime.


Perhaps not for others, but at the Sanity household it does. We also have teenagers who are around and everyone seems to be very active at night around bedtime.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

seeking sanity said:


> Perhaps not for others, but at the Sanity household it does. We also have teenagers who are around and everyone seems to be very active at night around bedtime.


We have two kids who are turning 16 and 13 next month, that doesn't stop my wife and I from frequently retiring to our bedroom or bathroom to have sex following dinner and then subsequently coming out again before our kids go to bed.

If someone wants to have sex with you they will find the time to do exactly that.


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