# Thinking about other women



## jjrocket (Jun 5, 2012)

Me and my wife are going through some tough times. We are going to counseling for my screw up during my drunk fest. 

Anyway, there are things that I don't tell her... just because I think she's better off not knowing. She knows I do this and it makes her crazy.

Anyway today she said when I say stuff like that I don't tell her everything then she thinks the worst like if we weren't married I could have sex with that woman. And in my stupidity I said well it's not like that all of the time.

I do think about having sex with other women. I'm not going to screw up my marriage to do it or anything, but is this abnormal? 

She's pretty angry and upset with me know and basically I told her this is why I don't tell her stuff like this. I'd like to get some other guys input on this.


----------



## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

I'm not a guy, but I've known guys for many years, and I think this is pretty normal stuff.


----------



## The Renegade (May 16, 2012)

JJ, we all do. It's normal. We are genetically wired to do so (some say this is a typical male excuse, but still true). 

What works for me is total honesty with my wife about that. Pretty much from the beginning on. And I make it a point in my relationship to keep stressing the differences between men and women and their different needs. 

I would now tell her flat out that if we were not married and this woman would be available to me, we would most certainly have sex. But I am not doing that to show what a cool hunk I am, but in an honest and calm conversation. Because it's true.

Interestingly, my wife trusts me more because I am so honest about it and because I am not hiding or apologizing for being a man. I am actually convinced that our sex-life is so amazing because of that.

What has to be established first, though, is that she can fully trust you on an instinctive level. Trust, that your sexual urges will not take the upper hand over your commitment to her. Screw ups at drunk fests, for example, will usually achieve the opposite. Telling her that you don't tell her everything just as much.


----------



## jjrocket (Jun 5, 2012)

Unfortunately the drunk fest that night ended with me waking up to someone else in my bed, so there are already trust issues at play.

Our counselor has been telling me to insure her that I chose her. No matter what happened today we are here and I picked her. I just feel like I usually say the wrong thing and don't want to make things worse for her.


----------



## The Renegade (May 16, 2012)

Cheating is a break of trust, not sex with somebody else. I know of many couples who are quite liberal when it comes to their sex-life, but do so in full agreement and find it exciting. Ironically, I find them to be the most connected couples I know.

You broke her trust (and I don't believe people that they don't know what they are doing when they are drunk). It seems that YOU are better off rather than she is when you don't tell her everything. Now, I'm not judging, but if you get a thrill out of having sex with other girls while not getting her agreement first (which is probably not for everyone), you will have to understand when sooner or later she stops buying into that.


----------



## bubbly girl (Oct 11, 2011)

lamaga said:


> I'm not a guy, but I've known guys for many years, and I think this is pretty normal stuff.


:iagree:


----------



## Kathrynthegreat (Apr 23, 2012)

Pretty sure it's normal, over the course of a lifetime marriage, to think about having sex with someone besides your spouse.


----------



## jjrocket (Jun 5, 2012)

She told me that there would be people who would try to tell me what I do and don't think.

I do remember the girl at the bar, I remember her going back to my hotel, I remember laying on the bed, and I remember waking up. If anything happened, I don't remember it. Believe it or not, that is your right. I don't think anything sexual happened, but it doesn't make any of it right. I don't remember most of that night, even before going back to the hotel. I don't remember most of the next day either. 

I'm glad that I'm not abnormal in my thinking. I think the biggest problem my wife had was I did not explain things clearly. We talked more about it and things are better now once I explained things better than I did the first time.


----------



## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

I see there as being lots of separate issues here.

Firstly you cheated. regardless of if you remember or not, going off alone with another woman to a hotel room= cheating.

Number 2, your wife needs the whole story, of you think saying you can't remember makes it better or spares her some pain. It doesn't. She probably will not fully be able to move on until she knows what has happened and then can make a decision if she wants to stay with you based on the truth. Saying you don't remember sounds like a lie.

Thirdly concentrate on your wife. Men and women often say they can't help fantasising about having sex with others. But you can, make a choice to fantasise about your wife instead. I think obviously most people notice other attractive people, but you do not have have those thoughts linger around. If we all did what we are supposed to be genetically be wired to do, then women would all ways be on the look out for a stronger man who can provide better then the one she has, and as soon as she found one she would run off with him. However many people make the choice to commit.


----------



## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

jjrocket said:


> Me and my wife are going through some tough times. We are going to counseling for my screw up during my drunk fest.
> 
> Anyway, there are things that I don't tell her... just because I think she's better off not knowing. She knows I do this and it makes her crazy.
> 
> ...


1) It's normal. Perfectly normal.

2) I've adopted the philosophy that I'm going cease or dramatically increase the amount of "editing" I do in my relationship.

This editing is why women don't understand us and don't try to. Too many wives want to think of their men through the lens of what THEY would think or do. She starts to see you as "one of the good ones" because you're not like those guys that do or think "dirty" men things.

These types of women are crushed later on when they catch you visiting nude sites, eyeing other women, talking about women around your boys, etc.

You need to have the freedom to express that dirty side of you for her to accept just like you have to accept aspects of her that you don't like or understand. That's the only way that she'll respect your sexuality as a man and not demonize it.

Now I'm not saying you have to shoot her a text every time you have a thought about another woman, but you need to start practicing being more frank about who you are and what you are. It may be WWIII at first, but she'll come to respect you for it and even be attracted by it later.

Try it, it's liberating.


----------



## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

The Renegade said:


> JJ, we all do. It's normal. We are genetically wired to do so (some say this is a typical male excuse, but still true).
> 
> What works for me is total honesty with my wife about that. Pretty much from the beginning on. And I make it a point in my relationship to keep stressing the differences between men and women and their different needs.
> 
> ...


This man gets it. I should have just saved some time and quoted him, ha.


----------



## The Renegade (May 16, 2012)

livnlearn said:


> so if your wife regularly fantasizes about what it would be like to have sex with a man with a bigger penis, would you like her to sit you down and tell you so in an "honest and calm conversation...because it's true"??
> 
> just wondering..since you're such an advocate of complete honesty.


Yes, I absolutely would like that she would tell me. Believe, it's a matter of confidence.


----------



## The Renegade (May 16, 2012)

Blue Moon said:


> 1) It's normal. Perfectly normal.
> 
> 2) I've adopted the philosophy that I'm going cease or dramatically increase the amount of "editing" I do in my relationship.
> 
> ...


Cannot agree more. It's liberating.


----------



## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

The Renegade said:


> Yes, I absolutely would like that she would tell me. Believe, it's a matter of confidence.


I don't think it's a matter of confidence at all, and plenty of confident men and women wouldn't like the idea of their husband or wife fantasising about having sex with others. I think it's easy to dismiss why other people don't like it by stating they must lack confidence or be insecure, when the reality is it is a totally normal feeling, we have just been brain washed by modern society that it is now a standard sexual norm to say and do whatever we want sexually as long as there is no physical touching involved. I personally believe this causes unhealthy disconnect between partners, and many people are afraid to state they don't like this or it makes them feel bad, for fear of being labelled (as above) uptight, insecure etc.

However I don't believe that is healthy, and to have a really good sex life, you should be focusing on each other, what makes the other person tick, how you can flirt with them and turn them on, and how sexy they are to you. If you can't enjoy your sex life without thinking of others or using them in your mind to get off, then I think that's sad.


----------



## The Renegade (May 16, 2012)

*LittleDeer* said:


> I don't think it's a matter of confidence at all, and plenty of confident men and women wouldn't like the idea of their husband or wife fantasising about having sex with others. I think it's easy to dismiss why other people don't like it by stating they must lack confidence or be insecure, when the reality is it is a totally normal feeling, we have just been brain washed by modern society that it is now a standard sexual norm to say and do whatever we want sexually as long as there is no physical touching involved. I personally believe this causes unhealthy disconnect between partners, and many people are afraid to state they don't like this or it makes them feel bad, for fear of being labelled (as above) uptight, insecure etc.
> 
> However I don't believe that is healthy, and to have a really good sex life, you should be focusing on each other, what makes the other person tick, how you can flirt with them and turn them on, and how sexy they are to you. If you can't enjoy your sex life without thinking of others or using them in your mind to get off, then I think that's sad.


I can only confirm from my side that it causes a very healthy connect between my wife an me. But then, again, that's just us. Other's might think differently.

Your last sentence presumes that we can't get off without thinking of others. That is not the case. We can get off any way.

I believe there are women "brain washed" by guys who tell them that they are only sexually attracted to one woman. Not sure if somebody ever believes that these days (yes, it's progress, I feel great about that). 

It's kind of a disturbing idea to tell a guy (or a woman) that he (she) has to "focus" his (her) sexuality and "turn off" some parts of it. It's simply not possible.


----------



## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

The Renegade said:


> I can only confirm from my side that it causes a very healthy connect between my wife an me. But then, again, that's just us. Other's might think differently.
> 
> Your last sentence presumes that we can't get off without thinking of others. That is not the case. We can get off any way.
> 
> I believe there are women "brain washed" by guys who tell them that they are only sexually attracted to one woman. Not sure if somebody ever believes that these days (yes, it's progress, I feel great about that).


No I don't think we are only ever sexually attracted to one person, however we can focus our sexual energy where ever we want. I might see a man who is the "type" that turns me on. I can choose to think about him, indulge in fantasies or put him out of my mind and instead focus on my boyfriend. Fantasising about others does not make me more attracted to my partner. I think it's a total cop to say you can't help it, it's genetic etc. We could use that argument to cheat or behave in a number of ways that would repel people we love. Humans are complicated beings, capable of making a myriad of choices, we are not slaves to our reproductive organs or we wouldn't even be able to work, we would just be having sex all day long.





> It's kind of a disturbing idea to tell a guy (or a woman) that he (she) has to "focus" his (her) sexuality and "turn off" some parts of it. It's simply not possible.


Turn off some parts of it? No! make choices as a human being- yes. Or where does it end, is it OK to fantasise but not touch? Well isn't that turning off some aspects of it? What about threesomes? What about orgies? Or can we choose to be respectful and faithful and focus on each other? I choose the latter.


----------



## BigLion (May 29, 2012)

The Renegade said:


> It's kind of a disturbing idea to tell a guy (or a woman) that he (she) has to "focus" his (her) sexuality and "turn off" some parts of it. It's simply not possible.


It simply is possible. If you are in the habbit of focusing on other women and thinking and talking about having sex with them (or getting drunk and actually having sex with them) then it will be very hard for you to change your way of thinking. But it is very possible and great to focus all of your sexual (and non-sexual) energy on the one person that you are in love with and have them do the same.

Yes we are all animals, but we can harness this power and use it for good. Or if you can't then be single and don't mess with people lives.


----------



## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

livnlearn said:


> so if your wife regularly fantasizes about what it would be like to have sex with a man with a bigger penis, would you like her to sit you down and tell you so in an "honest and calm conversation...because it's true"??
> 
> just wondering..since you're such an advocate of complete honesty.


I agree with you Livnlearn.

I think there's an element of fantasy in members of both sexes, but it isn't really helpful to a relationship to verbalise them...

I think the main issue in the OP's relationship is that his wife is insecure because he broke her trust. She's looking for reassurance that he only has eyes for her, and I doubt that telling her that he frequently thinks of having sex with other women is going to be very helpful!


----------



## Posse (Jan 30, 2012)

Finding others attractive is normal and unavoidable, acting on it is what is a marriage killer.

Attraction to others is Biology, but remember that Biology is not Destiny.


----------



## jjrocket (Jun 5, 2012)

Our sex life was good before this happened.

Despite what anyone wants to think and this is what my wife told me about this site is I am an alcoholic. If I could tell her everything that happened I would. I can't tell her. I can't tell the shrink. I can't tell anyone because I don't know. 

She heard part of what happened that night from my phone calling her from my pocket while I was at the bar. She said that the woman was coming onto me. I just wanted to go to my hotel and go to sleep. I was working away from home for 8 days at a time. My work paid for my hotel that was my home for the greater part of two weeks. I did not go rent a room just to take this woman there. Does it make it right? No. I am owning up to everything that I know happened and more. If I could tell her I would but it's hard when I don't even know.

She told me last night that she deserves to know the person she is married to. I guess I am having a hard time arguing with that. 

Like someone else said if I was not married and the woman was available to me I would have sex with her. I don't sit around stalking anyone or flirting with people other than being nice the occasional older waitress. 

I do appreciate everyone's thoughts on the matter.


----------



## jjrocket (Jun 5, 2012)

The drunk fest did not happen because of anything wrong with our marriage. My wife is the love of my life. I really think that she saved my life. If not for her I am certain that I would not be alive right now. I am an alchoholic. I am getting help. She is going to al anon. I can't explain it and am not going to try to justify something that some people can not understand.


----------



## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

The Renegade said:


> Cannot agree more. It's liberating.


Whoops. I meant cease or dramatically DEcrease the amount of editing.


----------



## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

*LittleDeer* said:


> I think it's a total cop to say you can't help it, it's genetic etc.


This is what I mean by women seeing men through their lenses and not accepted how we are and who we are. Instead of trying to understand, you want to split things 50/50 and see us the way you see yourself. We're different.

I don't know you and have no reason to lie, so trust and believr when I say I. CAN'T. HELP. IT.

Do I cheat on my wife? No. THAT'S a choice. But I absolutely cannot help those constan thoughts, urges and impulses about numerous other women.


----------



## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

jjrocket said:


> She told me last night that she deserves to know the person she is married to. I guess I am having a hard time arguing with that.


Give her what she wants. And if she gets upset at it later tell her not to bluff if she's only going to get hurt when you call it. Either way, as long as you're righteous in your honesty you're not doing anything wrong.


----------



## livnlearn (Mar 5, 2012)

Blue Moon said:


> This was 100% emotional mudslinging. Why not debate the man on the merit of what he's saying as opposed to how it makes you feel?


there is no need to debate the point that men think about being with other women. *News Flash* Women think about being with other men". That doesn't justify either one making it a point to rub it in their spouse's face. It is not done out of the need to be honest, it is done to be controlling.


----------



## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

livnlearn said:


> there is no need to debate the point that men think about being with other women. *News Flash* Women think about being with other men". That doesn't justify either one making it a point to rub it in their spouse's face. It is not done out of the need to be honest, it is done to be controlling.


The guy never said that he rubs it in her face, and that she enjoys his honesty. You created your own "movie" based on how YOU would feel in that situation and painted him as the villain and her as the poor, abused wife. 

That's what I meant by attacking him on how you feel and not what he said. *News Flash* what is wrong to you may be common practice for another. How do we know she doesn't answer truthfully about guys she thinks about if he asks? You're making it into a man vs. woman control thing when it's not.


----------



## Crazy8 (Jun 1, 2012)

Blue Moon said:


> This is what I mean by women seeing men through their lenses and not accepted how we are and who we are. Instead of trying to understand, you want to split things 50/50 and see us the way you see yourself. We're different.
> 
> I don't know you and have no reason to lie, so trust and believr when I say I. CAN'T. HELP. IT.
> 
> Do I cheat on my wife? No. THAT'S a choice. But I absolutely cannot help those constan thoughts, urges and impulses about numerous other women.


You can control your thoughts. 

Sure, some things pop in your head, like "she's hot". But what do you do from there? Do you dwell on the hot chick? Do you let it go? 

It's my belief that I have to control those thoughts. For example, instead of seeing a woman as a hot piece of booty, you can learn to see her as someone's daughter, or view the person as a person and not objectify. 

I'm not saying that I don't have the same thoughts or urges. It's just a choice to channel them to something constructive. 

When I met my wife, I was into Mixed Martial Arts. There's a lot of women around that sport. Not only did I not get with any of those women, but I didn't even fantasize, masturbate, or anything. My focus was on other things. My wife wasn't a groupie or anything like that, by the way. I worked with her.

So, it can be done. It's not easy. But it can be done.


----------



## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

Crazy8 said:


> You can control your thoughts.
> 
> Sure, some things pop in your head, like "she's hot". But what do you do from there? Do you dwell on the hot chick? Do you let it go?
> 
> ...


I'm not talking about dwelling on a woman and burning up with desire for. I'm talking about the pure fact that I'm a man, she's a woman, I'm attracted to her. As I said, I've never cheated and never will. 

I just cringe when I hear women talk about how she's the only woman her husband finds attractive. I cringe because he is either living a lie or is so beaten down by his wife that he's reprogrammed or something.

I don't let things get further than they should, but seeing and noticing other women is something I can't control, nor would I want to. I wouldn't want my wife to feel the need to "program" herself to not notice men either. That's the beauty of being faithful. It means more that I _choose_ to do it rather than do it solely based on the fact that I don't notice other women.

And on the "hot piece of booty" part, if I don't know a woman, my first thought is on her appearance. If a woman doesn't know me, her first thought is my appearance. I don't care about any woman or man's back story unless I have a reason to.

Just like, if I see a woman I'll think "She's hot," and leave it at that. I'm not wondering how many siblings she has and what she does for a living. By that same token, if I notice a guy has a nice car or wears nice clothes, I'm thinking "Man, must be nice. I'd buy that if I saved my money up." I'm not thinking about his back story.

I can, and DO control myself, but if I unless I'm misunderstanding you, we're talking about two different things. I'm not claiming to be helpless in my thoughts, I'm just not discounting every aspect of human nature.


----------



## Crazy8 (Jun 1, 2012)

Blue Moon said:


> I'm not talking about dwelling on a woman and burning up with desire for. I'm talking about the pure fact that I'm a man, she's a woman, I'm attracted to her. As I said, I've never cheated and never will.


I'm not judging you. I agree with you on this point.



> I just cringe when I hear women talk about how she's the only woman her husband finds attractive. I cringe because he is either living a lie or is so beaten down by his wife that he's reprogrammed or something.


Yeah. Agreed. She's lying to herself, or he's lying to her. 

For example, I think Carry Underwood is hot! But instead of watching Carry Underwood, or looking at pictures of Carry Underwood, I choose to avoid Carry Underwood. 

And that's just me. I'm not beaten down. I just don't know how productive it is for me to get worked up about Carry Underwood. It makes my wife feel like poo because she's not rich, talented, and blonde, and then in the end, what did I get out of it? An erection? At most? Not worth it. 



> I don't let things get further than they should, but seeing and noticing other women is something I can't control, nor would I want to. I wouldn't want my wife to feel the need to "program" herself to not notice men either. That's the beauty of being faithful. It means more that I _choose_ to do it rather than do it solely based on the fact that I don't notice other women.
> 
> And on the "hot piece of booty" part, if I don't know a woman, my first thought is on her appearance. If a woman doesn't know me, her first thought is my appearance. I don't care about any woman or man's back story unless I have a reason to.
> 
> ...


Again, not judging. I wouldn't do that to you. 

I'm just giving a different point of view. Like there's a woman at work. She's attractive. I've noticed. But I don't think of her like that. I think of her as my co-worker. I work with her, I'm professional, she's professional, and that's that. But like Carry Underwood, I wouldn't allow myself to be in a situation that's a no-win for my wife and I, just like you wouldn't. 

And this is just me. Who knows? Maybe I'm weird. 

Like I said, it's just another perspective.


----------



## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

Crazy8 said:


> I'm not judging you. I agree with you on this point.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Gotcha. I see exactly where you're coming from now and it makes sense.

And hey, we're all a little weird, ha.


----------



## jjrocket (Jun 5, 2012)

Wow.

My wife tells me anything I want to know. I'm not controlling her with it or throwing it in her face. SHE brought it up, she ASKED me about it.


----------



## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

jjrocket said:


> Wow.
> 
> My wife tells me anything I want to know. I'm not controlling her with it or throwing it in her face. SHE brought it up, she ASKED me about it.


That's why I was frustrated in my replies. People read things, feel a certain way and then frame it to fit their feelings. Complete with adding details that never took place.


----------



## jjrocket (Jun 5, 2012)

Maybe frame it to feel their lives as well? I guess a person can only assume.

I'm not saying I am perfect. I am really good at screwing things up in one way or another. In the past it's almost always involved alcohol. I know I don't deserve another chance to make this right. I know she deserves a better man than me. All I can do is try to be that man for her since she is stubborn enough to put up with me.


----------



## The Renegade (May 16, 2012)

jjrocket said:


> Maybe frame it to feel their lives as well? I guess a person can only assume.
> 
> I'm not saying I am perfect. I am really good at screwing things up in one way or another. In the past it's almost always involved alcohol. I know I don't deserve another chance to make this right. I know she deserves a better man than me. All I can do is try to be that man for her since she is stubborn enough to put up with me.


Hey, after all, she didn't cut up all your clothes or smashed you on the head with some shovel or so. She's in MC with you (believe you mentioned that). That means she still believes in you and your relationship together. To me, that's a good sign.

To answer your question: It is normal that you think of other women. In an ideal world this would not be the case, but here on this one you can't escape it. If you act upon it or not is on another page, though.

As for me, I enjoy my marriage in a way that I can talk freely about Carry Underwood and enjoy looking at her, commenting on her body, and doing that together with my wife. Interestingly she understands by that, that I am not easily thrown off track by any hot women out there. And that is what my wife really likes, I guess.


----------

