# Any advice would be appreciated



## Neversummer (Sep 8, 2014)

I have been married to my wife for almost three years now and prior to that we were dating for two years. We knew each other from work for three years before we started into a relationship. It gets complicated because her brother was the one who actually hired me. She was only looking for a summer job while she was finishing up college and working on her thesis for her masters degree. She now has her degree but is over qualified for entry level jobs and is under experienced for upper level jobs. Her degree is in archeology and due to the economy there is not a high demand for what her degree is in.

When we first started dating we would talk for hours and hours about all the things we would want to do in life. Some of the we agreed on some of them we were booth on completely opposite ends of the spectrum on. Most of them happened over 8 years ago. Now we are running into problems because conversations we had before we started dating are being held like they were written in stone. Completely forgetting the fact that we have both changed over time.

I should back track a bit and say that she is 31 going to be 32 in a few weeks and I will be turning 30 in October. Right after we got married she almost immediately wanted to buy a house and start having kids. She was 29 at the time and i was still 26. At that time I wasn't mentally there and I wanted to enjoy each other for a few years before we started having children. At that time I also wasn't comfortable with where we were financially and wanted to get better established before we were in over our heads.

A lot of family issues have come up between now and then and we kind of put off that aspect of our lives. Now that I am pushing 30 I am wanting to do better than a 1 bed room apartment and am starting to think that if we don't start having kids soon it will be too late in life. My wife has a different mindset now that she wants to start a business using the money that we have been saving up for a down payment on a house. 

She is planning on starting a natural cosmetic business selling product at farmers markets and craft shows. She gave her notice at work before discussing it over with me and wants me to be 100% supportive of her with what she chooses to do in life. She makes about 40% of what I do and we need that money to not go into savings every month. I made the suggestion to "try" it without quitting her job over it because she has Friday, sat and Sundays off. That way we would be able to see what it can do without putting us at a financial liability and we could still progress towards buying a house. I even offered to help her with it because she wouldn't be working at it full time. 

She has been boing the markets for a month and a half now and is loosing money doing so. She had to buy insurance to sell at the markets and is doing between 20-65 dollars a day at a fair. By the time you subtract the cost of the table, product, and tax it is trivial. Granted she is only starting at this but I fear this will be the trend because there is already so many other people trying to do the same thing. 

To her she is fed up working in a corporate job and anything other than free lancing is not an option. She insists on doing it now and does not want to move forward in our relationship unless she knows if this will work or not. I told her that I am afraid that she is trying to turn a hobby into a career and it is not ready to progress into a career at this point. I also told her that I am not happy at all about the fact that she will be working during my 90 % of my time off from work. We will not have any common days off from work anymore and she will be spending two to four nights a week at her parents house to be making product. We were both working overnights and she feels that if I am not going to at work she can sleep at her parents house. 

I feel like I am just a roommate with my wife. We never really made any adjustments towards being a married couple. We have kept our money situation separate and never got any joint accounts. We cannot come to any sort of an agreement when it comes to setting up plans and goals for the future. It all keeps going back to things that we brainstormed about before we started dating. 

I am getting burnt out of this situation pretty fast and am at a loss for what to do. My family thinks this is a joke and that she is being unrealistic with what she is trying to do. Which makes the situation that much harder. Her family thinks that I am being unsupportive of her dreams. If she goes for it I will be resentful mostly because our relationship will be non existent and if I get to see her a few hours every few days I'll be lucky. If she doesn't do it then she will hold it against me and be resentful that I didn't allow her to do it.

I still love my wife very much and I know she still loves me. We get along until this comes up. What do you do when you fall in love with different aspects of each other's lives that change over time? How can you be supportive of something when deep down inside you completely dislike the idea of it? What do you do when your spouse makes life changing decisions like this without fully discussing them with you? What do you do when there is no compromise that can really be made without someone being resentful? Any help or advise would be really appreciated. Plus sorry if it is kind of all over the place I haven't been to bed yet and this has been eating me alive all night.


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

Neversummer said:


> What do you do when there is no compromise that can really be made without someone being resentful?


This is the real danger. Since you can't control your wife, work on eliminating your own resentment. Talk to her more to understand her aspirations and how she sees you fitting in.


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## Neversummer (Sep 8, 2014)

It's hard because I already turned down two jobs that were in Colorado for her. They both would have provided for us better than our current situation and she wouldn't have even had to work. 

She lost her grandma two years ago and is doing everything in her power to spend as much time with the rest of her family. 
Her parents were professional photographers for a large chunk of her childhood. Prior to that her grandparents owned a mom and pop hardware store before the major chains took over. The photography business isn't doing so well these days because everyone has digital cameras. I think this is a way to try and get them involved in something else. 

I understand the desire to be self employed but I disagree with her means of doing it. I do not want to control her but I want her to start thinking more of "us" not just her own personal interests. I never make any major purchases without making sure she is on board with them. I turned down jobs because although I would have been happier doing them it would provide for us we'll enough. 

For me I cannot find a way to see myself being happy working 60-75 hours a week. To see my whole paycheck not even be able to cover the costs of everything. To then turn around and not even have her around.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

The way you have presented the case it does appear you two are roommates. Making gainful employment decisions without discussing it with you and or taking a look at how it affects both in the relationship is not the way to go about it. "Going for it" with your life savings seems very risky to me. It appears she does not care for how you feel about it. She has found a way to put you on notice that you do not care for her "dreams". I'm guessing the new marketing of cosmetics was not one of her dreams discussed years ago. There is no game plan. No game plan makes it hard to plan any future. Do you want to continue down that path of uncertainty?


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## Neversummer (Sep 8, 2014)

She discussed it before and tried it two years ago. At the time we were both working day shift hours. She was fortunate enough to get full time benefits working 3 10 hour days. She worked on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and had the rest of the week off. I was still an hourly employee at that time and ended up getting promoted to a supervisor. After taking the job was told I needed to cover the night shift because they were going to fire the guy running it. I discussed it with my wife before I gave an answer and she said yes as long as she could change her hours to be similar to mine so we wouldn't be on opposite shifts. So we both ended up on nights and they told her that she needed to work 4 days a week. When she picked up the extra day she stopped pursuing it. 

However when she was working on it before it had the same results of little losses each day unless she got a sympathy purchase from friends or family. Between travel time, set up, selling, tear down travel time she would be spending 9-12 hours a day for anywhere between -40 dollars to a 30 dollar profit. I encouraged her to pursue it as a hobby because we needed time apart from each other every here and there but I told her that it was unrealistic to pursue this full time. 

She is completely flabbergasted that I am not 100% supportive of what she wants to do in life. And that no matter what, I should be behind her with what she chooses. She cannot fathom how I am upset in this matter and does not see how it is leaving me with no kind of life from the marriage. 

I told her that this is depressing to me, and that my blood pressure is through the roof, I am constantly loosing sleep over this and it is starting to show at work for me as well as in our personal life. Any time I try to get involved in it she tells me to stop interrogating her. If I don't bring it up I'm being unsupportive or I don't care. If I make any suggestions she does the opposite. 

I told her I am thinking of divorce and I told her that she needs to tone down some of the things that she is trying to do. (She is part of a ski club, writers club, science society, historical society...ext). I also told her that it feels like all these things are more important to her than I will ever be. She tells me that she has to do this to network her business. I feel like I am not a priority in her life and am finding it hard to keep devoting my effort into this. 

At what point would you call it quits?


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

Neversummer said:


> She is completely flabbergasted that I am not 100% supportive of what she wants to do in life. And that no matter what, I should be behind her with what she chooses. She cannot fathom how I am upset in this matter and does not see how it is leaving me with no kind of life from the marriage.


It sounds like neither of you is fathoming the other.



> I told her I am thinking of divorce and I told her that she needs to tone down some of the things that she is trying to do. (She is part of a ski club, writers club, science society, historical society...ext). I also told her that it feels like all these things are more important to her than I will ever be. She tells me that she has to do this to network her business. I feel like I am not a priority in her life and am finding it hard to keep devoting my effort into this.


That may well be good advice but you are trying to run her life. You are really coming across as insecure and needy.



> At what point would you call it quits?


So you'd rather divorce her and have nothing than be married and not get everything you want?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

You are thinking of divorce?

Really?

Do you want to be married to your wife? Do you want to be married at all?

I would suggest couples counselling as soon as possible.


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## Neversummer (Sep 8, 2014)

ladymisato said:


> It sounds like neither of you is fathoming the other.
> 
> 
> That may well be good advice but you are trying to run her life. You are really coming across as insecure and needy.
> ...


I would be lying if I said that the thought hasn't crossed my mind, but at what point do you draw the line and say you have completely different goals and needs in life. Your obviously better off without me since I'm pretty much non existent in your life now. I just feel like I'm holding her back from what she wants to do in life and that we are on completely different playing fields. I truly do love her but I also know that there is a point when you say this isn't working. We have been having the same argument for four months. Regardless if the business is successful I do not want a marriage where we are just passing ships in the dark. I will not be fulfilled from having sex and dinner two to three times a week and that be the existence of the marriage.


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## Nikita2270 (Mar 22, 2014)

In my opinion, what she's done is a deal breaker and she doesn't get it.

What she should have done is come to you and have a discussion about her short-term and long-term career goals and you should have worked out a plan together.

She had zero right to quit her job and expect you to financially support her unless you were in agreement with that plan. That way, you could have saved the required funds for her to get started and made a timeline on what goals were required for her to scale back from work.

There should have also been a discussion on how to manage the time required to start up a business. Its almost always a huge time commitment to start one and its ridiculous that she didn't give you a chance to agree with what this was going to entail.

Frankly, I COMPLETELY disagree with the last poster saying that you're trying to control her life...I think its completely the opposite, she's forcing you to work harder to support her "lifestyle" choices without your consent. To me, that's financial betrayal and I wouldn't tolerate a partner that did that crap to me. I would never support a grown adult personally. I would have insisted that the money be saved to start this venture because I wouldn't tolerate an adult financial dependent.

You're also not insecure or needy. It sounds like she's doing whatever she wants at your expense. Marriages where one partner makes unilateral, major decisions that put the other spouse in jeopardy do not last.

Personally, I'd figure out what your limits truly are and sit her down and explain it to her. If she's met and/or exceeded those limits already...which it sounds like she has....I'd let her know what your expectations are as far as the financial equity in the relationship and the decision making process.

Either she decides to be part of the relationship and meet your expectations to a fair and reasonable level...or you move on and find someone who can actually be a real partner.

I can tell you that there's no way that I'd tolerate what she did. In fact, I would have packed my bags already.


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

Neversummer said:


> I would be lying if I said that the thought hasn't crossed my mind, but at what point do you draw the line and say you have completely different goals and needs in life.


It may well be that the two of you are going off in different directions at the moment but that doesn't mean you should give up on her.

If income is really the issue (and it's not clear to me that it is), then you do whatever you need to earn enough income to support the family. And leave it at that. If she's really endangering the family finances with spending (and it sounds like she's merely not making as much money as you'd prefer), then curtail her spending. All of these are intermediate steps you can take far short of divorce.



> Your obviously better off without me since I'm pretty much non existent in your life now. I just feel like I'm holding her back from what she wants to do in life and that we are on completely different playing fields. I truly do love her but I also know that there is a point when you say this isn't working. We have been having the same argument for four months. Regardless if the business is successful I do not want a marriage where we are just passing ships in the dark. I will not be fulfilled from having sex and dinner two to three times a week and that be the existence of the marriage.


I think you need to understand what's driving her. I don't think you care enough to figure that out yet. You're concerns are to self-centered and defensive.


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

What I don't understand is, how much archeology actually happens in the Chicago suburbs. Digging up Bugsy Malone has been a focus for thrill seekers, not trained, educated professionals.

Spending years in school only to make a cheap product to sell at local fairs isn't what she was trained to do.

That's probably where I would draw a line in the sand. I think if she gave a 100% effort into finding a fellowship or expedition of some sort, I'd give 100% support.

But making hand lotion from scratch and selling it? No, not supporting that dream...


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## Sunburn (Jul 9, 2012)

Neversummer said:


> She is planning on starting a natural cosmetic business selling product at farmers markets and craft shows.


This wouldn't happen to be one of those multi-level marketing type businesses, would it?

If so you need to put the kaibosh on that nonsense before they bleed you dry.

At any rate you two need to just forget about all the idealistic plans you shared in your early 20's. You both are not the same people and life happened. You need a plan, a life plan with realistic financial and employment goals. Agree upon it and stick to it.


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

ladymisato said:


> It may well be that the two of you are going off in different directions at the moment but that doesn't mean you should give up on her.
> 
> If income is really the issue (and it's not clear to me that it is), then you do whatever you need to earn enough income to support the family. And leave it at that. If she's really endangering the family finances with spending (and it sounds like she's merely not making as much money as you'd prefer), then curtail her spending. All of these are intermediate steps you can take far short of divorce.
> 
> ...


Sounds like it could be her that is this way as well. Honestly, I just think he sounds defeated. Is your advice really for him to throw himself into making as much money as possible and then control how his wife spends the money? That is NOT going to help him IMO.

It sounds to me that his wife wants him at arms length and doesn't want him to be involved in what she is doing. She wants "her" thing. And it seems "her" thing has changed throughout the course of the marriage. 

Maybe you could approach her by saying you don't really feel loved or valued in the relationship?


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

FalconKing said:


> Sounds like it could be her that is this way as well.


Without at doubt. (Always, of course, we have to take the OP at his word.) However, the wife is not here, only the husband. It is pointless for us to offer advice to the wife.



> Honestly, I just think he sounds defeated. Is your advice really for him to throw himself into making as much money as possible and then control how his wife spends the money? That is NOT going to help him IMO.


My advice was simpler than that: do what needs to be do to be solvent. That might mean making more money or controlling her spending.



> It sounds to me that his wife wants him at arms length and doesn't want him to be involved in what she is doing. She wants "her" thing. And it seems "her" thing has changed throughout the course of the marriage.


People change and OP described both his and his wife's changes throughout the marriage. But my impression is that the wife simply wants to do this and wants the husband's support. Her expenses are not significant, the main financial hit was the loss of her income.

(Of course, when my husband quit his job to start a business and ended up not earning any income he ended up as a househusband.)


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

ladymisato said:


> Without at doubt. (Always, of course, we have to take the OP at his word.) However, the wife is not here, only the husband. It is pointless for us to offer advice to the wife.
> 
> 
> My advice was simpler than that: do what needs to be do to be solvent. That might mean making more money or controlling her spending.
> ...


I see your point, but I really don't think he COULD control her spending. I understand what you are coming from but it sounds to me like she is making unilateral decisions and just wants him to get on board. She doesn't listen to him. So him trying to tell her how to spend would be another reason for her to distance herself away from him and continue to do her own thing. 

I understand that he should be giving unwavering support but it doesn't sound like he feels loved or valued enough to expect anything in return. Somebody has to be focused on the relationship. I think they should talk about that, and then other things may fall into place. This to me is a classic example of a spouse being so driven they ignore their significant other.


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

FalconKing said:


> I see your point, but I really don't think he COULD control her spending. I understand what you are coming from but it sounds to me like she is making unilateral decisions and just wants him to get on board. She doesn't listen to him. So him trying to tell her how to spend would be another reason for her to distance herself away from him and continue to do her own thing.
> 
> I understand that he should be giving unwavering support but it doesn't sound like he feels loved or valued enough to expect anything in return. Somebody has to be focused on the relationship. I think they should talk about that, and then other things may fall into place. This to me is a classic example of a spouse being so driven they ignore their significant other.


Ultimately he can control her spending. I won't outline here but it's pretty simple for him since he's earning the income for the family.

I'm not diminishing any criticism of the wife, just pointing out that the husband is not powerless here. There are lots of things he can do short of divorce. In the worst case, he tolerates her for a while and let's her fail on her own.

Far more important is, as you say, focus on the marriage. Maybe she is not ready for that at the moment but he can provide that focus when she is not simply by waiting patiently for her.


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

ladymisato said:


> Ultimately he can control her spending. I won't outline here but it's pretty simple for him since he's earning the income for the family.
> 
> I'm not diminishing any criticism of the wife, just pointing out that the husband is not powerless here. There are lots of things he can do short of divorce. In the worst case, he tolerates her for a while and let's her fail on her own.
> 
> Far more important is, as you say, focus on the marriage. Maybe she is not ready for that at the moment but he can provide that focus when she is not simply by waiting patiently for her.


Honestly, do you think any type of financial control would not be seen as a power play? His wife seems very independent and really into doing her thing. I just can't help but think she wouldn't respond favorably to this. 

And I guess we'll have to respectfully disagree about him waiting patiently for her. I don't think people get married expecting to not be a priority. I understand that you feel that eventually she'll come back to him. But I think sometimes people have to be reminded to make the other person feel special and it is never ok to put someone on a shelf. It could be a phase or a permanent change in who she is. I just don't think he should wait it out. He needs to know right now how important he is to her and if she is willing to take the time to rekindle an emotional connection.


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

FalconKing said:


> Honestly, do you think any type of financial control would not be seen as a power play? His wife seems very independent and really into doing her thing. I just can't help but think she wouldn't respond favorably to this.


I don't disagree, all I'm saying is that he's not a victim and divorce is not the only escape. She might protest, or worse, but he can take control of the situation if he chooses.

What I find absurd is the tendency in TAM to paint false choices between extremes: either he unwaveringly supports her or he divorces her. He has more options than that and controlling finances is a big one.



> And I guess we'll have to respectfully disagree about him waiting patiently for her. I don't think people get married expecting to not be a priority. I understand that you feel that eventually she'll come back to him. But I think sometimes people have to be reminded to make the other person feel special and it is never ok to put someone on a shelf. It could be a phase or a permanent change in who she is. I just don't think he should wait it out. He needs to know right now how important he is to her and if she is willing to take the time to rekindle an emotional connection.


Alas, we're not talking about an ideal marriage but making the best of a bad situation. Sometimes a spouse needs some latitude and I think their relationship would probably be better if he understood her needs and at least offered moral support.

He's convinced she will fail. If she fails then she'll have to face the consequences.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

What we have is a severe case of poor communication. He isn't comfortable with her wanting to start a business with the money they saved for a house, and she wants to sell homemade make up at the local farmers market and she's blind to what he's trying to say to her or just not listening.

She can start a small business and still work in the meantime at a real job if she wants but the way I see it is she's looking at the situation like a single person would. Fine if she was but she isn't and when there can be no compromise then the marriage will to a slow death roll and that will be it.

IMO, if I was him, I would try to convince her to keep her real job and do this home made razzmatazz thing on the side and if she doesn't want to then at least they still have their own bank accounts and if he was smart put it in lock down.


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## Neversummer (Sep 8, 2014)

6301 said:


> What we have is a severe case of poor communication. He isn't comfortable with her wanting to start a business with the money they saved for a house, and she wants to sell homemade make up at the local farmers market and she's blind to what he's trying to say to her or just not listening.
> 
> She can start a small business and still work in the meantime at a real job if she wants but the way I see it is she's looking at the situation like a single person would. Fine if she was but she isn't and when there can be no compromise then the marriage will to a slow death roll and that will be it.
> 
> IMO, if I was him, I would try to convince her to keep her real job and do this home made razzmatazz thing on the side and if she doesn't want to then at least they still have their own bank accounts and if he was smart put it in lock down.


That's what I tried to do but she is saying that she is too drained to work on any of it unless she has the full day off from work. Also she refuses to work on it unless it's with her parents at their house which is 30 miles away. Instead after work she would spend hours playing games on her cell phone and not putting anytime into it. The. The weekend comes and now it's business time.

Money wise we are doing pretty well. We have enough saved up to where neither one of us really needs a job for at least a year and a half to two years and we could maintain what we have. But I put in way too many hours to get to where we are at to see it all go away for nothing. Where on the other hand she received all her portions of it from her lost grandma and uncle. I don't have access to any of her bank accounts and she doesn't have any access to mine. So even if I wanted to try and do the lockdown it would be really hard. 

It's frustrating because in 4 months of this we are already down 6 grand. We cannot decide where to live and our apt lease is up. So we are staying on a month to month contract for an extra 350 added to rent. Our personal problems keep getting the back burner and there are no signs of improvements there. 

iPad battery died and I have to leave for work. I'll update more in the morning.

Thanks all for everyone else's I input in this it's good to hear other peoples opinions and advice.


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## Nikita2270 (Mar 22, 2014)

6301 said:


> What we have is a severe case of poor communication. He isn't comfortable with her wanting to start a business with the money they saved for a house, and she wants to sell homemade make up at the local farmers market and she's blind to what he's trying to say to her or just not listening


It sounds more like she was willfully not listening or trying to communicate because she knew he wouldn't agree and wanted to do what she wanted to do.

You can't have a healthy marriage with someone who operates this way.

You also can't have a healthy marriage by "locking down the bank account" and trying to over-control a partner. Its as equally bad and destructive as what she's doing. Most normal people don't respond well to having a domineering, financially abusive spouse.

They need to have an agreement on the plan. It would have been better to have it in the first place but since she didn't do that...he needs to insist that they do it now.

Maybe she couldn't keep her last job because it would have interfered to much with this dream she has of starting her own business...so she could downsized into a smaller job....or whatever else they could have agreed upon.

The point is that she's running off doing what she wants and in the process not contributing financially or time-wise to the marriage and he's left holding the bag. That's not ok.

This isn't about making ultimatums but it is about explaining to her that she can't make unilateral decisions and that her doing so has consequences. He needs to communicate what his basic expectations are for her. How much time does he expect her to invest in their relationship? How much of a financial contribution does he expect her to earn to support the family? He needs to understand what his limits are, explain them clearly to her and explain to her what the consequences are for him if she doesn't want to compromise with him. She needs to also make her needs heard and they need to meet somewhere in the reasonable middle.

Like I said, if someone tried to pigeonhole me in to financially supporting them without my concurrence (which I'd never give)....I'd have a real problem with that and it would be a deal breaker for me.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

ladymisato said:


> If income is really the issue (and it's not clear to me that it is), then *you do whatever you need to earn enough income to support the family.* And leave it at that...


What? Huh? Income wasn't an issue UNTIL SHE UNILATERALLY QUIT HER JOB. And why in the world should HE bust his hump to earn even more money so she can hang out with Mommy and Daddy and piddle around with some half-baked "business?" (which is really just a hobby). Where is her business plan? Where is her mission statement? What are her income projections? I haven't seen anything that indicates this is anything more than an expensive hobby.



ladymisato said:


> I think you need to understand what's driving her. *I don't think you care enough to figure that out yet*. You're concerns are to self-centered and defensive.


How can you possibly make the claim that OP doesn't care enough? It sounds like the WIFE doesn't care at all, and demonstrated this by quitting her job and now trying to bankrupt the family, all without a single discussion.

Quite frankly, she sounds lazy. You two don't seem like you're on the same page at all with this marriage and I would seriously be contemplating seeing a marriage counselor or getting out altogether. 

I just want to add, I am a woman, I enjoy purchasing cosmetics, soaps, lotions, natural products. *But hers is the kind of booth I would generally skip right over* at a peddler's market. No idea of where the product was made -- in sterile conditions? Does she have proper health department permits? How long is the shelf life? Is the product going to "separate"?


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## Youngster (Sep 5, 2014)

OP,
It sounds like you have 2 problems in your marriage, long term goals(financial, career, house, kids, etc) and relationship issues(activities, spending time together).

As far as the financial issue, is there any way you can give your wife half of the savings for her business? Put it in a separate account and let her know that it is half of everything you have. When this money is gone, your support for the business stops. Doing this will at least let you come to terms with a worst case scenario and also keep her endeavor from being open ended. 

As far as the relationship issues, is there any way you can both join a club/activity that you're both interested in and you can make the time for? From your post it sounds like there isn't but if you could find anything(bowling league, biking or hiking club) it could give you a way to reconnect and spend time together.


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

happy as a clam said:


> What? Huh? Income wasn't an issue UNTIL SHE UNILATERALLY QUIT HER JOB. And why in the world should HE bust his hump to earn even more money so she can hang out with Mommy and Daddy and piddle around with some half-baked "business?" (which is really just a hobby). Where is her business plan? Where is her mission statement? What are her income projections? I haven't seen anything that indicates this is anything more than an expensive hobby.


Because they are husband and wife. It's that simple.



> How can you possibly make the claim that OP doesn't care enough? It sounds like the WIFE doesn't care at all, and demonstrated this by quitting her job and now trying to bankrupt the family, all without a single discussion.


I didn't say he didn't care enough, I said he didn't understand her aspirations well enough. I seriously doubt that her aspiration is to bankrupt the family.

Nor have I excused anything she has done, but she is not here to hear our advice.



> I just want to add, I am a woman, I enjoy purchasing cosmetics, soaps, lotions, natural products. *But hers is the kind of booth I would generally skip right over* at a peddler's market. No idea of where the product was made -- in sterile conditions? Does she have proper health department permits? How long is the shelf life? Is the product going to "separate"?


While I am skeptical of her business prospects I have seen these sort of ventures succeed, albeit on a rather small scale.

OP, one question you might ask on this: can she point to a success story that is her model? What is her definition of success?


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## Neversummer (Sep 8, 2014)

Youngster said:


> OP,
> It sounds like you have 2 problems in your marriage, long term goals(financial, career, house, kids, etc) and relationship issues(activities, spending time together).
> 
> As far as the financial issue, is there any way you can give your wife half of the savings for her business? Put it in a separate account and let her know that it is half of everything you have. When this money is gone, your support for the business stops. Doing this will at least let you come to terms with a worst case scenario and also keep her endeavor from being open ended.
> ...



My problem with allocating x amount of dollars into the business is that she already gave up her job in the process. We give up half our savings plus go into savings each month to cover bottom line expenses. If this doesn't work it will take years that I am unwilling to put my life on hold for to recover. The job economy at least around Chicago is horrible. There are homeless people all over the place out in the suburbs which is something I have never seen in all the years of living here. I fear that she will struggle to find another decent job or will end up taking a major pay cut to do the same thing working 5 days a week instead of 4. Believe me I have been looking my ass off every day to try to find something better to provide for us better. 

We have plenty in common, we are both outdoors people and enjoy hiking, fishing, biking/rollerblading, the major thing is skiing and snowboarding. We also go to a lot of museums and have miniature golf tournaments. The problem is that it is never alone time with the two of us anymore. Or if I try and plan something there is always some form of gathering at her parents house that is always more important. Plus now with the majority of her markets being on Fridays and Saturday we no longer have a common day off. 
I work Sunday night through Friday morning. Then I have to go in after the shipping crew is done on sat morning and before I start up with the shift on Sunday to do her job because she was unwilling to work 5 days a week. She doesn't want to do anything on Fridays because she has to be up at 5 in the morning and by the time she gets done on sat afternoon, drive back to her parents house to unload her product, have lunch/dinner and make it back home she doesn't want to do any of that. Then on Sunday her family gets together for lunch/dinner and she will always choose to go to that over spend some quality time with me. 
For me it's hard to justify going to these all the time because I have to have the paperwork for work done so I usually do this while she attends to her family needs and I can get some rest before working a double Sunday shift. Plus with the recent turmoil in regards to the business it has grown quite awkward and I am finding it harder and harder to politely take the stare of death from the inlaws.


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## Neversummer (Sep 8, 2014)

I just tried to have a constructive conversation with her about the marriage. I told her that I was concerned about the direction this was going and that I am not happy in this situation. I told her that I do not feel respected or appreciated and I feel like I will always come second to her family and now third to her hobby (business). I also told her that I question her motives and that I do not trust her decision making decisions. I told her that we need to have some sort of realistic game plan that is in the best interest for the both of us, not a one sided landslide. I also told her that we are obviously having problems and if these are not addressed our marriage will fail. 

I tried to go into more of the issues that we have been having and she kept interrupting me every time I tried to speak. I asked her to please try to listen to what I have to say and to stop getting all defensive and just listen. She just got louder with me and started acting like a child. I told her that I can't go on like this and we need to start seeing eye to eye with things. She started acting even more childish. I got mad and told her that she has double standards and wants me to listen to her but won't let me finish a sentence. At that point I told her if this is the way it's going to be I'm done with this and no longer wanted to continue this.

I think she just tried to pick a fight so she would have a reason to go to her parents house. At least we didn't have any kids or a house. I guess I'm just an unsupportive ahold in the end....


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

Neversummer said:


> I tried to go into more of the issues that we have been having and she kept interrupting me every time I tried to speak.


Next time, try listening first. Let her exhaust herself speaking and then, after you've heard her through, see if she's willing to listen to you.

Right now you are both just shouting past each other.


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## CafeRed (Mar 26, 2012)

Have you sat down and had an open, honest discussion about these things together? I would also highly recommend that you and your wife talk with a counselor to help get you both on the same page, and iron out some of these points of tension. Don't give up hope. You obviously love your wife very much, and I pray that things start getting better for the two of you.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

The best arguements I have had with my wife go as follows.

I say "This is what I believe marriage is". I then insert a reasonable idea such as "a marriage is a sexual relationshiop". Or "A marriage involves making our lives more mutually fulfilling". The ideas need to be something that no one couild reasonably argue against. 
I think say "You have to decide if that is the type of marriage you want". 
I then end the conversation and see if her actions or attitudes change. I don't wait for her to "agree" with anything. I just give her the assignment to "think about what she wants / think about what kind of marriage she wants / think about what kind of wife she wants to be", and then observe.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

ladymisato said:


> *I didn't say he didn't care enough,* I said he didn't understand her aspirations well enough.


You MOST CERTAINLY *DID* SAY he didn't care enough. See your own quote below:




ladymisato said:


> *I don't think you care enough* to figure that out yet. You're concerns are to self-centered and defensive.


You're off base here Lady M. The wife is trying to run ramshod over her husband and their finances.


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

happy as a clam said:


> You MOST CERTAINLY *DID* SAY he didn't care enough. See your own quote below:
> 
> You're off base here Lady M. The wife is trying to run ramshod over her husband and their finances.


Oh, good grief. That's was hyperbole to emphasize that he hadn't take the time to understand her. His last post only underscored this: he was all talk and no listening.

And my point thoughout was the he could, if he chose, control the finances. So if she's running "ramshod" its because he is allowing it.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Neversummer said:


> I just tried to have a constructive conversation with her about the marriage. I told her that I was concerned about the direction this was going and that I am not happy in this situation. I told her that I do not feel respected or appreciated and I feel like I will always come second to her family and now third to her hobby (business). I also told her that I question her motives and that I do not trust her decision making decisions. I told her that we need to have some sort of realistic game plan that is in the best interest for the both of us, not a one sided landslide. I also told her that we are obviously having problems and if these are not addressed our marriage will fail.
> 
> I tried to go into more of the issues that we have been having and she kept interrupting me every time I tried to speak. I asked her to please try to listen to what I have to say and to stop getting all defensive and just listen. She just got louder with me and started acting like a child. I told her that I can't go on like this and we need to start seeing eye to eye with things. She started acting even more childish. I got mad and told her that she has double standards and wants me to listen to her but won't let me finish a sentence. At that point I told her if this is the way it's going to be I'm done with this and no longer wanted to continue this.
> 
> I think she just tried to pick a fight so she would have a reason to go to her parents house. At least we didn't have any kids or a house. I guess I'm just an unsupportive ahold in the end....


Neversummer... with THIS post you just made, it is clear to me that you understand ALL the issues in your marriage, you are mature, clearheaded, a true problem-solver and teammate in your marriage.

She, on the other hand, sounds immature, selfish, NOT a team player, and hasn't learned to cut the apron strings from Mom and Pop who are willing to coddle her endlessly.

Personally, I believe there isn't any advice we can give you that you haven't already figured out. You are a smart cookie. Keep coming here to vent and hash it out, but I believe you already know in your heart what you need to do if she continues down this path.

I wish you the very best.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

ladymisato said:


> Oh, good grief. *That was hyperbole* to emphasize that he hadn't take the time to understand her.


Umm... I tend to take people's words at FACE VALUE -- not try to read between the lines to figure out if it's hyperbole, onomotapoiea, juxtaposition, Eubonics, or any other grammatical trick.

Say what you mean, and mean what you say.

You said he doesn't care enough. Clearly he DOES care enough.


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

happy as a clam said:


> You said he doesn't care enough. Clearly he DOES care enough.


He obviously doesn't care enough to listen.


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

ladymisato said:


> He obviously doesn't care enough to listen.


That only appears to be obvious to you.


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

Nikita2270 said:


> It sounds more like she was willfully not listening or trying to communicate because she knew he wouldn't agree and wanted to do what she wanted to do.
> 
> You can't have a healthy marriage with someone who operates this way.
> 
> ...


This is exactly what I was trying to say. He can't do a powerplay. She is already doing one of her own. It will be a clash for sure. A battle for control.


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## Time4Joy (Dec 13, 2012)

Your wife is a self-centered woman whose priorities don't include you. I had one once like that. That stuff manifested itself about four years into the marriage, once I finished military service and we were on our own to make decisions. 

She wanted what she wanted and the hell with everything else. She was an unemployed (and unemployable) graphic artist who thought she could make a living by custom painting oil portraits and landscapes. She couldn't and worked us into debt despite a pretty good salary I earned.

Your finances are separate. No kids. Nothing in common. Leave now and while her employment history is still fresh so you won't get nailed for spousal support.


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

Neversummer said:


> I just tried to have a constructive conversation with her about the marriage. I told her that I was concerned about the direction this was going and that I am not happy in this situation. I told her that I do not feel respected or appreciated and I feel like I will always come second to her family and now third to her hobby (business). *I also told her that I question her motives and that I do not trust her decision making decisions.* *I told her that we need to have some sort of realistic game plan that is in the best interest for the both of us, not a one sided landslide. * I also told her that we are obviously having problems and if these are not addressed our marriage will fail.
> 
> I tried to go into more of the issues that we have been having and she kept interrupting me every time I tried to speak. I asked her to please try to listen to what I have to say and to stop getting all defensive and just listen. She just got louder with me and started acting like a child. I told her that I can't go on like this and we need to start seeing eye to eye with things. She started acting even more childish. I got mad and told her that she has double standards and wants me to listen to her but won't let me finish a sentence. At that point I told her if this is the way it's going to be I'm done with this and no longer wanted to continue this.
> 
> I think she just tried to pick a fight so she would have a reason to go to her parents house. At least we didn't have any kids or a house. I guess I'm just an unsupportive ahold in the end....


I think you should have left the bold part out. Don't question her motives or criticize her decision making. She will see that as an attack and just feel like you don't believe in her. I think you should just tell her how you feel and what you are lacking from her in the relationship. Only address things in relation to you. Now she probably feels like you think she's impulsive and incompetent. And now if she fails she will think you are happy about it. She's looking for reasons to prove that you don't want her to have this and comments like that give it to her. It doesn't matter what you say before or after that. "I feel, I want, I need..*insert emotion*.." That's how you got to talk, I think.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You can't push someone into a corner and expect to get anything but a fight.

You need to set up a meetng with her and her parents and see why this is all about.

They may have a better idea about what is going on. That you have been against this from the get go does not bode well. You've made up yOur mind it will fail and she sees this as a personal attack.

You have to decide inc your marriage is worth more than your bank acct.


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## Nikita2270 (Mar 22, 2014)

Chaparral said:


> You can't push someone into a corner and expect to get anything but a fight.
> 
> You need to set up a meetng with her and her parents and see why this is all about.
> 
> ...


This isn't just about finances!

Did you not read that she made this decision by herself?

What married person quits their job, changes their schedule and expects the other person to financially support them without discussing and agreeing to it with their spouse?

The issue is her making a unilateral decision to chase her dreams at the expense of her partner. That is NOT ok.

And yes, its the finances also. What right does she have to sign up her spouse to zero financial support from her without an agreement from him to do so? That's a load of crap.

When you're in a partnership and one person does whatever the hell they want at the expense of another...that's not a marriage anyway. Its a parasitic relationship. That doesn't sound like its ok with this OP and he has a right to have limits. In fact, having clearly communicated limits is a requirement for a healthy marriage.

The posters suggesting that what she did is this OP's fault are ridiculous. She is completely in the wrong...period. And if she won't compromise at this point, it is not ok.

People that do this kind of stuff don't stop at one decision either. If its not handled now, expect this to be her ongoing mode of operation.


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

Nikita2270 said:


> Did you not read that she made this decision by herself?


No doubt, this is scandalous to some.


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## Nikita2270 (Mar 22, 2014)

ladymisato said:


> No doubt, this is scandalous to some.


Having a spouse that made the unilateral decision to quit their job and saddle their partner with the outcome would pretty much be scandalous to any married individual and more importantly, clearly isn't scandalous to this particular OP.

He has every right to be angry...he has every right to set limits on what he's willing to take. Telling him that he's in the wrong is really beyond ridiculous.


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

Nikita2270 said:


> Having a spouse that made the unilateral decision to quit their job and saddle their partner with the outcome would pretty much be scandalous to any married individual and more importantly, clearly isn't scandalous to this particular OP.
> 
> He has every right to be angry...he has every right to set limits on what he's willing to take. Telling him that he's in the wrong is really beyond ridiculous.


Well, I'm sure glad we got that established. The OP has every right to be angry.

Of course, if OP had come here for something other than affixing blame he might be disappointed by that. If, say, he had come here looking for a solution to his situation then assigning blame is pretty useless.

But at least he can hold his head high with pride as he walks into the divorce attorney's office. He's certified In The Right by TAM.


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## Neversummer (Sep 8, 2014)

It's a whole a lot more than my bank account that I'm worried about. I have been wanting to change careers for a while and have been putting that I hold for what seems like forever. While we were dating we had always taked about wanting to move out west to Denver or Salt Lake City. We both enjoy skiing, hiking, and rock climbing and it would be so awesome to have nature as your play ground in your backyard. 

Now she drew a line on a map and said she wants to live south of here closer to my patents house. She said that she wants to be with in a 10 minute drive of her parents house and near a town that supports local business. She wanted to buy the lot of land that is adjacent to her parents backyard and build a house there. She only got mad at me when I said that we could get a flood light so we could leave it on or turn it off for when your parents are welcome over. 

For me I pretty much came from a broken family. My parents separated when I was in kindergarten. My dad was always in and out of my life. My brother had an allergic reaction to his school immunization shots, which caused him to have a stroke at the age of 4. His whole left side of his body ended up being underdeveloped as a result of this and needed multiple surgeries and years of physical therapy. My mom tried to work with my brother as much as she could and I always got the back burner. 

I think my dad moved in and out 6 or 7 times for the time I was in school. The only time I would see him was on Tuesdays from 4-6. There was never really bonding time with him or much of a relationship with him over the years. It was basically get pick up from school go to the local arcade or go to happy hour at the local bowling ally. 

He was a general manager for a grocery store food chain here. He started having an affair with my mom and used work as an excuse for his absence. My mom forgave him again and again and wanted to keep him around for my brother and I to have a father figure in our lives. My dad shook around enough so that he wouldn't have to pay my mom any child support and moved out for good on my 18th birthday. They were separate for 12 years before they finally got a divorce. 

My brother ended up getting the girl from his first real relationship pregnant. I knew they were not right for each other but he didn't know any better and just ended up going a long with it. He tried to provide the best for his family. He bought a house and worked two jobs while finishing up college. They ended up doing a shotgun wedding at the justice of the peace and told family about it afterwards. His now wife got pregnant a second time and now wanted a real wedding before the 2nd kid came around. My brother provided her with the best wedding he could afford. She took all the wedding gifts and money and moved out the day after the 2nd wedding. It was all just a ploy for her to get a years worth of rent money and basic furniture to move out.

The point of all of this is that I grew up being pretty self independent from my parents. I never liked being home because of all the bickering and commotion between my parents. I grew up doing holidays with both sides of the family on different days and unless it was a funeral I do not remember everyone really being together at the same time. I made a personal vow to myself to be a better father to my children than what I had growing up. I want to be an active part of their lives and provide for them. My mom pretty much pissed 18 years away dealing with my dads bs to try and have some sort of family system for us.

What I learned from my brother is not to rush into a house that he ultimately got stuck with while having to pay child support. He ran up the debt having to pay for both lawyers during his divorce for the three years it took him to be able to get joint custody of the children. 

For me it is hard because I don't want to end up like my parents or my brother. I don't want to sit and wait to not progress my life waiting on my wife. On the other hand I don't want to rush into buying a house and having kids with the wrong person.


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## Neversummer (Sep 8, 2014)

ladymisato said:


> But at least he can hold his head high with pride as he walks into the divorce attorney's office. He's certified In The Right by TAM.


It's far from pride that I would be walking into a divorce attorney's office with. It's the fact of know that I gave something my all and tried my hardest to please my wife and that it wasn't good enough. It's the fact that the last 6 years in this relationship is going to be nothing but reminder of what I do not want in a relationship. It's the fact that my life is in due for a much needed overhaul because I am not going to want to (plus it will be too difficult) to continue to keep working at a place that will always be a reminder of my failed marriage. I'll be walking in with the deflating feeling of defeat.


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

Neversummer said:


> Now she drew a line on a map and said she wants to live south of here closer to my patents house. She said that she wants to be with in a 10 minute drive of her parents house and near a town that supports local business. She wanted to buy the lot of land that is adjacent to her parents backyard and build a house there. She only got mad at me when I said that we could get a flood light so we could leave it on or turn it off for when your parents are welcome over.


This is really the first I've heard from you describing what she wants. I realize that the job you had in mind is out west but is there anything near where she wants to live?

How does her venture fit into this?



> For me I pretty much came from a broken family. ... For me it is hard because I don't want to end up like my parents or my brother.


Hold that thought.


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

Neversummer said:


> It's far from pride that I would be walking into a divorce attorney's office with. It's the fact of know that I gave something my all and tried my hardest to please my wife and that it wasn't good enough. It's the fact that the last 6 years in this relationship is going to be nothing but reminder of what I do not want in a relationship. It's the fact that my life is in due for a much needed overhaul because I am not going to want to (plus it will be too difficult) to continue to keep working at a place that will always be a reminder of my failed marriage. I'll be walking in with the deflating feeling of defeat.


Before you've decide you've given it your all, try sitting down with her and listening without speaking. Take notes and make sure you understand what she is saying is important to her. Bite your tongue and wait for her to finish. Digest what she says before you reply.

I know you feel wronged. I know there are many others her all to eager to validate your feelings of being wronged. But that's not going to fix your marriage.


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## Neversummer (Sep 8, 2014)

ladymisato said:


> Before you've decide you've given it your all, try sitting down with her and listening without speaking. Take notes and make sure you understand what she is saying is important to her. Bite your tongue and wait for her to finish. Digest what she says before you reply.
> 
> I know you feel wronged. I know there are many others her all to eager to validate your feelings of being wronged. But that's not going to fix your marriage.


I do and I have already tried many approaches to this. I get upset when she constantly cuts me off when we try to discuss things so I have been pointing it out to her every time she does it. I make it a point since I have been doing this to let her finish her train of thought before commenting on what she said, or trying to start a new one. I have tried taking notes, thinking about it over night and discussing them with her the next day/few days later. I have also tried sending her emails with things I wanted to talk to her about. Those ended up just getting forwarded to her parents and family with no follow up email or discussions. I even tried looking up marriage building activities, printed them out and worked through three programs with her.

It all ends in the same way that we will put forth the effort and try to work on us. But nothing changes, she continues to do her own thing, and we continue to go on with everything staying the same.


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

Neversummer said:


> I do and I have already tried many approaches to this. I get upset when she constantly cuts me off when we try to discuss things so I have been pointing it out to her every time she does it. I make it a point since I have been doing this to let her finish her train of thought before commenting on what she said, or trying to start a new one. I have tried taking notes, thinking about it over night and discussing them with her the next day/few days later. I have also tried sending her emails with things I wanted to talk to her about. Those ended up just getting forwarded to her parents and family with no follow up email or discussions. I even tried looking up marriage building activities, printed them out and worked through three programs with her.
> 
> It all ends in the same way that we will put forth the effort and try to work on us. But nothing changes, she continues to do her own thing, and we continue to go on with everything staying the same.


Just to be clear, what you are saying is that you have tried listening to her without speaking, just taking notes. She has her say, completely, and then when she is done and you try to speak she cuts you off?

Your previous posts, other than that one paragraph I quoted, were quite devoid of her perspective. Could you describe, perhaps from your notes, how she sees things?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Nikita2270 said:


> This isn't just about finances!
> 
> Did you not read that she made this decision by herself?
> 
> ...


The answer to every problem in a marriage isn't divorce. We are only getting one side of he story too. I'm not trying to say its his fault.

I do wonder though about other things. Why does he continue to work double shifts when he can't be with his wife.

There are many examples here of spouses working different shifts and destroying their marriages.

I think her idea is ridiculus. Ithink his approach was even worse. Her reaction was of one backed into a corner. Is she stupid, stubborn or does she still believe this will work.

They have so much in common, I doubt he will ever find a mate that matches up that well with him again.

Why can't he go help her on the weekend.

Btw, I personally believe taking a job in another city and taking her away from her family is self centered too. But now he also blames her for that decision.


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## Neversummer (Sep 8, 2014)

ladymisato said:


> Just to be clear, what you are saying is that you have tried listening to her without speaking, just taking notes. She has her say, completely, and then when she is done and you try to speak she cuts you off?
> 
> Your previous posts, other than that one paragraph I quoted, were quite devoid of her perspective. Could you describe, perhaps from your notes, how she sees things?


She feels that you spend a lot of time in life at work. She ultimately wants to get a sense of joy and fulfillment out of work and "does not care what it will provide for her" from a financial stand point as long as she is happy doing what she is doing

She does not want to work for someone else and wants to start her own business. 

She will be unhappy in life unless she is starting her own business.

She wants to travel in life and see the world. By that meaning put all of our stuff in storage and moving around the world staying in this country for a few months then coming home for a few months to going to the next destination. (This one contradicts what she says about needing to spend time with her family 2-3 times a week)

She talked about also wanting to write and publish children's books with her mother doing the art work for them.

She also talked about wanting to build a green house in her parents back yard to sell plants/grow essential oils for he cosmetics. 

She also talked about possibly doing archeology with one of the companies here while doing a combo of the other things on the side. (The archeology company here would be "on call". And would basically be anywhere in the state of IL,IN,WI,MI and IO. They would send her to where ever for x amount of days to dig for minimum wage, pay for hotels and meals, then back home until the next one comes up)

She feels that "I should support her no matter what, no questions asked, In regards to all aspects in life because it is something she wants to do. As long as it is not a moral issue." Which she did not go back and clear later on once I asked her about that

She feels that she does not get to spend enough time with her family and wants to make more time for them. Plus I need to make more time for them because they are important to her.

If this business idea fails she will try the next one and the next one until she can be self employed. 

She wants to live in a town that is within 15 minutes of her parents house that supports local small business. (We live in the middle of our families now, this will put me at a 45mim to 2 hours away from my family)

She wants her personal life, career path, and marital life to all hold the same importance and all offer the same level of fulfillment to her


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

Neversummer said:


> She feels that you spend a lot of time in life at work. She ultimately wants to get a sense of joy and fulfillment out of work and "does not care what it will provide for her" from a financial stand point as long as she is happy doing what she is doing
> 
> She does not want to work for someone else and wants to start her own business.
> 
> She will be unhappy in life unless she is starting her own business.


This is as I expected, quite typical for people starting a business. Are you opposed to her starting a business or just a money losing business (most lose money at the start), or that she is so obsessed with it (most are)?

If she started a business in CO where you took a new job would you be ok with it or near her parents, assuming you could find a comparable job there?



> She wants to travel in life and see the world. By that meaning put all of our stuff in storage and moving around the world staying in this country for a few months then coming home for a few months to going to the next destination. (This one contradicts what she says about needing to spend time with her family 2-3 times a week)
> 
> She talked about also wanting to write and publish children's books with her mother doing the art work for them.
> 
> ...


She has a lot of aspirations. That's not a bad thing. Perhaps you are not seeing the positive side of her love of life.



> She feels that "I should support her no matter what, no questions asked, In regards to all aspects in life because it is something she wants to do. As long as it is not a moral issue." Which she did not go back and clear later on once I asked her about that


Ok, as I said before, this is one place where you can, and should, push back. You can always give her moral support but you can control the finances and thereby throttle her ambitions and force her to prioritize. You say: here is your budget for the month and you stick with it no matter how hard she screams at you. If you are earning the income you set the financial rules. You don't need her permission to do this. Just do it.

But don't be a jerk about it. Be gracious and caring even when you tell her no more money.



> She feels that she does not get to spend enough time with her family and wants to make more time for them. Plus I need to make more time for them because they are important to her.
> 
> If this business idea fails she will try the next one and the next one until she can be self employed.
> 
> ...


Can you get a comparable job near her parents?

She wants a lot out of life. You should not place yourself as a buffer between her desires and reality. Protect the family finances. Grow a pair and put her on a budget.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

ladymisato said:


> Before you've decide you've given it your all, try sitting down with her and listening without speaking. Take notes and make sure you understand what she is saying is important to her. Bite your tongue and wait for her to finish. Digest what she says before you reply.
> 
> I know you feel wronged. I know there are many others her all to eager to validate your feelings of being wronged. But that's not going to fix your marriage.


 I agree but she also has to listen to his side and honestly, he has more on the ball than she does and she proved it and doesn't realize that with her wanting to go in business with no plan worth the paper it's written on, that this venture she wants has to start as a hobby, then progress as it becomes more profitable. Right now, she has no job and in so many words is making cosmetics out of dirt working out of a wash tub and the trunk of her car and the real kicker is the vision of grandeur she has and the refusal to see the big picture.


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## Neversummer (Sep 8, 2014)

Chaparral said:


> The answer to every problem in a marriage isn't divorce. We are only getting one side of he story too. I'm not trying to say its his fault.
> 
> I know I have many faults, I at least try to improve upon them once I realize that I am doing something that she is unhappy with. I can say that I put forth an honest effort to try to please her. It may not be 100% of the time but at least I acknowledged my faults and accept responsibility for my actions when I'm at fault.
> 
> ...


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## Neversummer (Sep 8, 2014)

I have no problem with her starting a business. I have a problem with the concept of what she wants to invest time and money with. She doesn't have a business license, company name trademark, website, Facebook page, blog, pamphlets, business cards, business cell, place to sell it year round (farmers markets May-October craft shows are mostly Nov-Christmas, Easter and Mother's Day), a realistic view of what each type of market to do, non refined product (basically selling a prototype and test batches), there is a ton of other competition, you can buy a better version of the same stuff at any walmart, target or wallgreens for cheaper, try doing a natural cosmetics search on amazon. She is also trying to relate this to her masters degree and saying that she is making authentic recipes which I think is a con. She has no real training in this and only copied recipes off the internet or from books. 90% of this could have been worked on while she still had a job and should have been taken care of before quitting.


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

Neversummer said:


> I have no problem with her starting a business. I have a problem with the concept of what she wants to invest time and money with. She doesn't have a business license, company name trademark, website, Facebook page, blog, pamphlets, business cards, business cell, place to sell it year round (farmers markets May-October craft shows are mostly Nov-Christmas, Easter and Mother's Day), a realistic view of what each type of market to do, non refined product (basically selling a prototype and test batches), there is a ton of other competition, you can buy a better version of the same stuff at any walmart, target or wallgreens for cheaper, try doing a natural cosmetics search on amazon. She is also trying to relate this to her masters degree and saying that she is making authentic recipes which I think is a con. She has no real training in this and only copied recipes off the internet or from books. 90% of this could have been worked on while she still had a job and should have been taken care of before quitting.


I think you're too worried about what she's doing with her business. Assume she's going to fail. Treat her business venture as an entertainment expense.


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## Neversummer (Sep 8, 2014)

ladymisato said:


> I think you're too worried about what she's doing with her business. Assume she's going to fail. Treat her business venture as an entertainment expense.


Except it's at the cost of 40% of our combined income take home and there is no fun in this expense.


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

Neversummer said:


> Except it's at the cost of 40% of our combined income take home and there is no fun in this expense.


I assume the cost you mention is the lost income when she quit her job. You need to forget about that, you can't force her to work. She's not a slave.

You can, however, control how the income you earn is spent.

Focus on what you can control and stop fretting about what you can't.


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## Neversummer (Sep 8, 2014)

ladymisato said:


> I assume the cost you mention is the lost income when she quit her job. You need to forget about that, you can't force her to work. She's not a slave.
> 
> You can, however, control how the income you earn is spent.
> 
> Focus on what you can control and stop fretting about what you can't.


Again not really, we have nothing joint her money is in her accounts my money is in my accounts. I can make suggestions on how we spend our money but realistically I cannot do anything about what she chooses to do with her accounts or money. We don't even have a joint checking account. I have been trying since we got married to set up some sort of shared bank accounts and credit cards but she has no interest in doing that. She's 32 years old and still has custodian accounts with her parents. She is the type of person who switches banks 3 times a year to go with who ever is paying the highest interest rates. 

Again which is part of the reason why I am so unhappy because we are almost 3 years into this and it is like we are still dating. It has felt like there is no commitment on her end for a while. I do not know how to get her to transition into thinking about things from a being married standpoint. All this is doing is pushing me away and causing more and more distance to grow between us. I worked over 4000 hours of overtime (I just check my pay stubs) the last 3 years I was hourly. I did that under the impression that we were getting a house and bettering our lives. If I knew the money wasn't going for a house and was going for this I would have never put that time and effort into it.


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

Neversummer said:


> Again not really, we have nothing joint her money is in her accounts my money is in my accounts. I can make suggestions on how we spend our money but realistically I cannot do anything about what she chooses to do with her accounts or money. We don't even have a joint checking account. I have been trying since we got married to set up some sort of shared bank accounts and credit cards but she has no interest in doing that. She's 32 years old and still has custodian accounts with her parents. She is the type of person who switches banks 3 times a year to go with who ever is paying the highest interest rates.
> 
> Again which is part of the reason why I am so unhappy because we are almost 3 years into this and it is like we are still dating. It has felt like there is no commitment on her end for a while. I do not know how to get her to transition into thinking about things from a being married standpoint. All this is doing is pushing me away and causing more and more distance to grow between us. I worked over 4000 hours of overtime (I just check my pay stubs) the last 3 years I was hourly. I did that under the impression that we were getting a house and bettering our lives. If I knew the money wasn't going for a house and was going for this I would have never put that time and effort into it.


I don't mean to sound unsympathetic but it sounds like she's spending her own money on this (ill fated) venture. What was the 40% you mentioned before? Was that of your combined assets?

How did the money you earned working over 4000 hours overtime get into her account if you have been keeping finances separate?

Your goals is laudable. Ideally the marriage should be shared assets and shared decisions. You need to deal with the problem at hand which is that she's spending money on something you don't agree with.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Lady M...

Why are you trying to antagonize the OP?

You are telling him to treat her business venture as an "entertainment expense"... are you kidding me? Treat HALF of their LIFETIME SAVINGS just EVAPORATING as a little "hobby mishap"!!!

Holy smokes. I thought I had heard it all.

OP, there is a very handy "Ignore" feature on this forum. I suggest you use it where you deem necessary.


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## JWTBL (May 28, 2014)

Am I the only one who thinks this woman has WAY too much attachment to her parents? A married woman should be interested in her husbands life, and being part of it, or just remain single and live with her parents. She sounds totally immature and not ready at all to have a relationship with anyone. She forwards his emails to her parents and family? Huh? From what I've read, it sounds like she doesn't care at all about her husband except as someone who will finance her and her family's silly ideas. Yuck.


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## Neversummer (Sep 8, 2014)

ladymisato said:


> I don't mean to sound unsympathetic but it sounds like she's spending her own money on this (ill fated) venture. What was the 40% you mentioned before? Was that of your combined assets?
> 
> How did the money you earned working over 4000 hours overtime get into her account if you have been keeping finances separate?
> 
> Your goals is laudable. Ideally the marriage should be shared assets and shared decisions. You need to deal with the problem at hand which is that she's spending money on something you don't agree with.


The money got in her account by me paying for everything allowing her income to go into savings. 
She also inherited money from the deaths of he grandma and uncle. 
I was forced to go salary at work thus giving up my option for overtime at work. I took a pay cut when I went salary. After I went salary they changed the night shift premium and she got a 4 dollar an hour raise. My company doesn't give a shift differential to supervisors part of the reason why I am wanting to look for something else. After the new shift differential she made 40% of my salary on a 40 hour work week.


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

Neversummer said:


> The money got in her account by me paying for everything allowing her income to go into savings.
> She also inherited money from the deaths of he grandma and uncle.
> I was forced to go salary at work thus giving up my option for overtime at work. I took a pay cut when I went salary. After I went salary they changed the night shift premium and she got a 4 dollar an hour raise. My company doesn't give a shift differential to supervisors part of the reason why I am wanting to look for something else. After the new shift differential she made 40% of my salary on a 40 hour work week.


Ok, so the 40% you quoted was the proportion of her previous salary before she quit. And she's spent her savings from her job before she quit and her inheritance.

If I understand you, she is not _currently_ taking any money from what you _currently_ earn. (I do recall that you have not taken a better job.)

That said, she's eating away at a finite nest egg. Obviously that concerns you but I think you should write that off for the sake of your sanity and for the peace of the marriage.

At her current rate, when would she exhaust her savings?


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

ladymisato said:


> Ok, so the 40% you quoted was the proportion of her previous salary before she quit. And she's spent her savings from her job before she quit and her inheritance.
> 
> If I understand you, she is not _currently_ taking any money from what you _currently_ earn. (I do recall that you have not taken a better job.)
> 
> ...


I don't think he should ignore things like that. You can't ignore things in a marriage that drive you crazy or cause you heartache. Not if its a big thing like this. 

OP, based on your life story I think you are terrified and angry that what happened to your brother may be happening to you. Your wife is not abandoning you physically but maybe emotionally. And it seems like she is making some big decisions with unrealistic expectations. Maybe she just decided she had you after you guys got married and de-prioritized you. Her first, then her family, and then you. Honestly, that happens. It sucks I know. What was her family life like growing up? Was she spoiled? Did she start a lot of things and never finish them? Previous relationships?


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## Nikita2270 (Mar 22, 2014)

ladymisato said:


> Well, I'm sure glad we got that established. The OP has every right to be angry.
> 
> Of course, if OP had come here for something other than affixing blame he might be disappointed by that. If, say, he had come here looking for a solution to his situation then assigning blame is pretty useless.
> 
> But at least he can hold his head high with pride as he walks into the divorce attorney's office. He's certified In The Right by TAM.


We gave him a solution. To clearly explain his position and try to find a reasonable compromise with her which includes laying out what he expects out of her financially and time wise.

Ultimately, one person cannot fix a marriage. If she's going to do what she wants...as if she's a single person...eventually it may be what she ends up being.

I find it amusing that you're suggesting that he's the one who should suck it all up and take it. Absolutely ridiculous advice...as per usual.


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## Nikita2270 (Mar 22, 2014)

ladymisato said:


> I assume the cost you mention is the lost income when she quit her job. You need to forget about that, you can't force her to work. She's not a slave.
> 
> You can, however, control how the income you earn is spent.
> 
> Focus on what you can control and stop fretting about what you can't.


Fascinating. But she can quit her job and force him to support her and the household? Really??? He's not a slave either. You are seriously out of line suggesting that he has to tolerate her deciding not to work without his agreement. Total b.s.

He should be focusing on the fact that he has no control and no partnership with her. When one person disrespects the other by doing what they want without input...especially seriously large decisions like this...you are not in a marriage. You're living with a parasite.


OP, let me explain something to you. If you continue down this path with her doing what she wants and you sucking it up and taking it....and it eventually ends up in divorce...you need to be concerned about her not working because it puts you in a position to have to financially support her after divorce. Right now, she can earn a living at a certain income...once she's unemployed for a while, you're screwed. So understand fully what you're potentially signing yourself up for.


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## Nikita2270 (Mar 22, 2014)

happy as a clam said:


> Lady M...
> 
> Why are you trying to antagonize the OP?
> 
> ...


She gives this type of terrible advice all the time...nothing unusual.

OP, it takes two people to have a marriage together and you need to figure out what your limits are....maybe you've already reached it?


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## Nikita2270 (Mar 22, 2014)

ladymisato said:


> Ok, so the 40% you quoted was the proportion of her previous salary before she quit. And she's spent her savings from her job before she quit and her inheritance.
> 
> If I understand you, she is not _currently_ taking any money from what you _currently_ earn. (I do recall that you have not taken a better job.)
> 
> ...


lol...yes OP, just sit back and let your "so-called" spouse not work and spend all the money you have saved for your family

You should suck it up for a partner who has zero respect for your needs and the fact that now you're burdened with 100% of the financial burden because she's achieving HER life goal while you suffer. Its all your fault...why are you whining? You'll be perfectly sane if you just forget that she's betraying you and committing financial infidelity. Just keep chanting "everything is great" while you're working all day.

Excellent, amazing, insightful, brilliant advice!

(Rolling my eyes....)


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## Neversummer (Sep 8, 2014)

FalconKing said:


> I don't think he should ignore things like that. You can't ignore things in a marriage that drive you crazy or cause you heartache. Not if its a big thing like this.
> 
> OP, based on your life story I think you are terrified and angry that what happened to your brother may be happening to you. Your wife is not abandoning you physically but maybe emotionally. And it seems like she is making some big decisions with unrealistic expectations. Maybe she just decided she had you after you guys got married and de-prioritized you. Her first, then her family, and then you. Honestly, that happens. It sucks I know. What was her family life like growing up? Was she spoiled? Did she start a lot of things and never finish them? Previous relationships?


I think most of this stems from her mother, her mom was always upset with her grandma because she wanted to go to theater school back when she was in college and she was forced to go school to become a teacher. Her mom was always upset and resentful that she couldn't go to school in what she want to. Her aunt was allowed to go to theater school but she wasn't and it has always bothered her. My wife's parents raised her to pursue anything that her heart desires. They believe that all ideas are equally good and that if your passionate about something it's almost guaranteed to work. 

Her dad was in the army, not sure exactly what he did. I know it was a basic entry solider position, never saw any combat. After the military his parents owned an ace hardware store that he helped with. It sounds like it was pretty successful but they had issues working with the grandparents. Her mom got fed up and quit and forced her dad to follow or else she was done. They quit without a plan and became photographers in the early 90's. Her mom is a substitute teacher maybe working 1-2 days a week at most during the school year. The photography business is not doing so well. They are pretty overpriced and are not willing to do weddings. They want to be able to charge what they used to be able to before digital cameras were a common house hold item. The only jobs that they get are through historical societies when they need photos to be taken and are few and far between. Then they also make slides for art shows and mat pictures and paintings. They are mostly living off of the money they got from her grandparents selling off the ace hardware.

She grew up in the breakroom of the ace hardware. She would be left there with a bunch of books and would be checked up on through out the work day. I think she was about 9 when they sold the store. She grew up in lemont which has been pretty much underdeveloped and there are a lot of family owned business through out the town. Her parents never had cable so she read a lot of books for her entertainment. 

She is too much of a dreamer and often overbooks herself thus leaving a lot of things unfinished. She is also too much of a people pleaser and needs to learn when to say no to things. I do not think she was spoiled with monitory things growing up but I think her parents did her a disservice by raising her to believe that everything in life is 100% obtainable. 

As far as the previous relationships goes, she was in an open relationship with someone from her high school through the first few years of college. They went to different schools and wated to try the relationship but also wanted to date other people because of being in different states. After school he proposed to her ad wanted her to move to Florida. She said yes at first and after they were in the same state for a while she called it off realizing how much they have changed and at that point they were still in an open relationships were better. 

I guess I have been the longest relationship she has been in with. For me my last relationship lasted about 5 years. My ex wanted to go to school to become a Librarian. Her parents wanted to move out of state to retire. The community college here was one of 3 schools that offered the certificate that she was goings after so she wanted to stay. Her parents basically disowned her for finishing moving out. I felt back because I knew she couldn't afford it so I helped out as much as I could. I knew pretty soon into it that it wasn't going to work but I wanted to make sure she didn't get screwed. What finally ended it for me was she bought a new car and expected me to pick up more of her bills for discussing it over with me. I knew that my ex was reckless with money and the entire time we were dating she was digging herself deeper and deeper into credit card debt.


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## Neversummer (Sep 8, 2014)

Nikita2270 said:


> lol...yes OP, just sit back and let your "so-called" spouse not work and spend all the money you have saved for your family
> 
> You should suck it up for a partner who has zero respect for your needs and the fact that now you're burdened with 100% of the financial burden because she's achieving HER life goal while you suffer. Its all your fault...why are you whining? You'll be perfectly sane if you just forget that she's betraying you and committing financial infidelity. Just keep chanting "everything is great" while you're working all day.
> 
> ...



Lol no sh*t. And when I do get to see her every two or three days try to not have this not destroy the visit. I feel like if we continue on this way it's just feeding into the mirage. Keep pretending that everything is okay.


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

All she wants is everything she wants.

Yep, she's a dreamer. She grew up watching her parents handle their business decisions poorly, so she feels that's the norm.

Letting her do her thing until the money runs out is senseless.

She wants to be a business owner, but is unwilling to educate herself in the necessary knowledge and strategy of business management. She has no formal business plan, yet alone training. Its the equivalent of a vanity press. 

I'm sure it is all quaint and pleasing in her head, but it is ruining your marriage. She is living in a financial fantasy land. Until she understands that, accepts that...geez.

Also, as for the money:
Obviously, it is wise to have a stash in savings that can be touched ONLY in an emergency. (loss of job, medical) I'm afraid she might not even honor that.
Any other funds (in your case) should be in retirement accounts you cannot touch at this time. That also sounds tough for her.

I'd be interested to know what kind of shape her parents are in with regard to retirement planning. Further down the road- guess who she'll expect to help with that?

I think you'll need a knowledgeable counselor/adviser to have any hope of getting her head in the game. If she'll shut up and listen.


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

One more thing-

Cable TV, internet, gym memberships, club fees, etc should all cease before you touch that savings. If your monthly income cannot pay monthly expenses, things should be cut. She'll never understand, though.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

IN a marriage there needs to be give and take.
Both partners need to "give" and both partners need to "receive". And, both people need a basic agreement to what a marriage is (the definition). Your wife is all take and no give, and her basic definition of marriage is not yours. I don't want to recommend divorce, but there are fundamental pillars lacking that makes it monumentally hard to build a marriage upon. 

Also, is your wife cheating on you? You posted something else that indicates cheating.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I think you should tell your wife its time for marriage counseling. From the way you describe her family though, Im guessing you are going to have to cut your losses. They do not seem rational.

Your wife almost seems done with the relationship too. How is your sex life and how has it changed in the last couple of years?

If she refuses marriage counseling go here The Healing Heart: The 180 follow it to the letter. This is to help a person disengage from the marriage but sometimes wakes their spouse up to what is going on. I'm guessing she will be happy to move back home. Be sure to pay attention to the "be cheerful" part.

I would also check her phone/text bill for unusual calls

Realistically, not working and not being a stay at home mom is a dealbreaker. Hobby is one thing, this isn't a business. Maybe she could take some of that time and take a business class.


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Chaparral said:


> I think you should tell your wife its time for marriage counseling. From the way you describe her family though, Im guessing you are going to have to cut your losses. *They do not seem rational.
> *


Oh, be fair. They're just optimists!


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## Neversummer (Sep 8, 2014)

Hicks said:


> Also, is your wife cheating on you? You posted something else that indicates cheating.


It was just a coworker crossing the line that lead to major problems. I wanted to see what other peoples reactions world be to see if other people would have been angry too. 
One of the drivers at work help us when they sold her grandmas house. They were pack rats and everything got palletend up and dumped in storage lockers. My wife's mom was trying to get ahold of him to see what he wanted from a restaurant for lunch. She tried calling him three or 4 times and he wouldn't pick up. She called her brother who was with him to get an order in. Her broth asked what he wanted and the order was complicated because he wanted extra items and none of others so he texted him her number and told him to call her. I was with my wife for that part so I know there was truth to that. 

The part that I was furious over was the fact that she lied to my face about getting the text and who it was from. She told me that it was some random number and that she had no idea who it was. After a while of arguing I believed her until, I got a phone call from that same number about two weeks later and I knew who it was then. So at that point I confronted her calmly about the situation to give her a chance to come clean. I asked her again filling in a little more details, she still played dumb. I asked her agin getting even more specific this time and she lied to me again. Then I finally spelled the whole thing out for her and told her that I knew she was lying to me. I accused her of doing in inappropriate things and asked her how much more there was to this. She sad nothing else happened, of corse I didn't believe her. We didn't talk for two days then she hands me a packet of all the detailed phone records and texts from the last four months. Turns out he did a mass text to everyone on his contact list, her mom, her dad and brother all got the same text and she showed me copies of theirs bills too. The messed up part and I kid you not is that her mom replied a pic of something I did not want to see. I guess she showed me that part as punishment. Her dad still does not know about this.

But I still have a problem with the fact that she lied to me about the whole thing. Because after he got my wife's phone number he started texting her every morning to see how bad his route was and how many stops he had. So there is no way that she could honestly say that she didn't know the number. Also he did this for 5 months and she never once said anything about him texting her. This made me even madder because when we first started dating and tried to keep it out of work for as long as possible he would always try to say how hot she was and how he would hit that. So I know he was interested in her. But he is not her type and I am not threaten by him. I was more aggravated about the fact that my wife tried to hide it.


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## Neversummer (Sep 8, 2014)

It has been a messed up 13 hours. For starters it feels weird not wearing my wedding ring. First time taking it off in three years. 

My wife was waiting by my car for me to get off of work today. As soon as I got out she tried to give me a hug and I took a step back. She asked if I wanted her to come home and I asked if things were going to change? She said she doesn't want to argue anymore. I asked what that ment and she said she is still going to do her business. And she wants me to fully support her and respect her dreams. I asked her if what she was planning on doing about respecting my wants and needs from the marriage. She sighed and rolled her eyes and didn't say anything. So I said this is the way it's going to be then? She said yup. I told her if that's that then I'm done and I can't go on like this. I told her that I'm sorry but I want out. 

She walked back to her car without saying anything and called her mom. I just drove off. She was behind me at the first light I could see her trying not to cry and hold it back but she couldn't. Maybe she will realize that I am being serious about her needing to put forth an effort to keep me in this. Either way if this isn't an eye opener for her I'm past my limits. Feels like one less monkey off my back.

I guess things must happen for a reason. My district manager has been at my building the last two weeks and he pulled me aside to talk to me. He said that he liked what has been hearing and has seen about me and wanted to feel me out about a promotion. He wants me to fly out to Vegas to check out our band new facility there and offered me the job as the assistant manager there if I want it. None the less, I just got a free weekend in Vegas. I'm debating in my head if I should take it and use this as a fresh start. It would be a significant raise as well they are offering a signing bonus and a moving package.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Neversummer said:


> It has been a messed up 13 hours. For starters it feels weird not wearing my wedding ring. First time taking it off in three years.
> 
> My wife was waiting by my car for me to get off of work today. As soon as I got out she tried to give me a hug and I took a step back. She asked if I wanted her to come home and I asked if things were going to change? She said she doesn't want to argue anymore. I asked what that ment and she said she is still going to do her business. And she wants me to fully support her and respect her dreams. I asked her if what she was planning on doing about respecting my wants and needs from the marriage. She sighed and rolled her eyes and didn't say anything. So I said this is the way it's going to be then? She said yup. I told her if that's that then I'm done and I can't go on like this. I told her that I'm sorry but I want out.
> 
> ...


If she is sticking to her guns and doing her own thing then yes at least consider taking this.
IF you do d make your boss aware of this as you may have to take days off on occasion.


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## Neversummer (Sep 8, 2014)

Work sucks at my branch and I never really went over it on this. Basically we were a privately owned company and we were bought out by Goldman sacs. They hired business consultants to go from branch to branch to standardize all the warehouse functions from branch to branch. Meanwhile come up with a program to reduce company overtime. At the start of this process a year ago I was running the night shift from the shipping/receiving side of it and my wife's brother was the transportation manager. It was brutal, no matter what we were doing was wrong and we had to abandon all of our procedures and one of them included the warehouse preloading the delivery trucks instead of the driver loading their own. They hired in two people to be loaders and he refused to train them. We got in 4 new trucks in October last year and he insisted that they were registered incorrectly. They sat there until April this year until someone could prove that he was wrong. Meanwhile we just rented 4 trucks for 6 months and he was wrong about the trucks and we could have used them the whole time. He would snap and start screaming at the consultants telling them that they were fn idiots and didn't know anything. They were trying to help and he snapped about how he should be at home in bed with his children. It was bad to the point where they said to fire him and get someone else to run the fleet. My ops manager wouldn't let them fire him instead he put him on inventory control. My wife at the time was the bridge from the warehouse and transportation. She would help me get the first few trucks completed at the start of her day then help him get the p.o.d, routes, and paper work for the drivers ready. 

He was butthurt about getting pulled from transportation and quit 4th of July to become a (u guessed it) free lance handyman. (Lol another story for another time)

Anywho the day shift shipping manager was running his shift into the ground and he had a stage quit where 4 people quit on the same day. They needed someone to fill in to get the trucks loaded and they wanted the day manager to quit so they switched me to half of what her brother was doing and half of my old job and the other guy to my old job. They figured he would quit from having to work overnights or he was given a shift that was running well that if it declined they would have grounds to fire him. 

My wife's brother was a control freak and he refused to let anyone know the process of what he was doing as a form of job security. We switched over to a new routing software and he was the only one trained in how to use it. So I now got the fun task of streamlining his old process and making it more efficient. My wife was upset about her brother and us now having to change what he was doing. Then that's when she quit.

The part that really sucks is that part of what the consultants are doing is a reduction in head count. They figured since these people willingly quit instead of firing the dead weight this would be easier to go about. Now I am not getting a replacement for the admin side (what my wife did) and now I have to either do it myself or train one of the loaders to do it. 

The nice thing about the Vegas job would be that I would be in charge of building maint, forklift maint, new hires and orientations. Which would be a lot less physical work than what I'm doing now.


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## Neversummer (Sep 8, 2014)

tom67 said:


> If she is sticking to her guns and doing her own thing then yes at least consider taking this.
> IF you do d make your boss aware of this as you may have to take days off on occasion.


I can probably get someone else into my wife's old job but I have been trying to put it off with hopes that my wife will come to her senses. I was trying to keep that slot open for her to come back if she wanted. I'll have to reevaluate that depending on how my whole situation plays out.


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

Forest said:


> All she wants is everything she wants.


Wham! - Everything She Wants - YouTube 



sorry


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## Neversummer (Sep 8, 2014)

My wife finally broke the silence and wanted to talk today. It lasted for a few minutes and ended up in the same argument that it always does. I told her that this is getting us no where and if we are going to try to continue this we need a different approach. I suggested that we write down something along the lines of what we expected out of marriage, what did we want to change after we got married, what are your expectations/roles for the marriage, and what do you want to see going forward. This is what I started up with. We were going to try and talk in the morning about it. Would any of you be willing to read it over and give some input as to anything I missed out on or that should be brought up? This is pretty much the last attempt at trying to find out if it's worthwhile to continue this or not

What I wanted marriage life to be like.

I always wanted to marry my companion, someone who I could see myself growing old with, someone I could consider my best friend. Someone who I respected, could trust, have good problem solving skills, someone who enjoyed things I liked while bringing new experiences to the table. Someone who it would be fun to be around and someone who would be there for me. I wanted my wife to be caring and compassionate, loving and appreciative, adventuring and down to earth. I want to be able to be myself around my significant other. 

I want my spouse to want similar things in life as well as have the same similar goals for the marriage. I would also like them to put the marriage first in their lives. I want to have the sense of togetherness while still maintaining ourselves in the process. I want to be working towards something with my spouse. I want to be on similar work schedules as my wife and want to have time to enjoy the person I came into this with. I do not want to be coming and going with my wife, I do not want a long distance relationship, I do not want to be sleeping in separate houses.

I want to feel special to my wife and I want my wife to feel special to be with me. I want to feel like it we are lucky to have found each other and enjoy each other's company and companionship. I want this to be an ongoing process and are continuously working towards keeping it that way.

I want my wife to help with the financial strain of buying a house and having children. (To be honest I have never really sat down and looked at the numbers to quantify target incomes for me/spouse. We should probably sit down and try to figure out how much money we need to make in order to live off of if we purchase a house in the 200-250k range). I want to have one or two children preferably two. Might change my mind after the first one though. I would like to have a house large enough to support three to four people and have it large enough to still have some space for myself and my wife. I would like to have enough income to be able to keep up with technology (not saying buy everything but I like tech related things). I would also like to have enough money to be able to travel and experience the world. I would also like to be able to have enough money to continue saving for retirement and helping my children get through college so they can have an easier life than I did.

I want to start family traditions and do more of the things that I never had growing up. I want there to be traditions that start with my wife that are different than her family's and my family's. I want to be the strong father figure in my children's uprising. I want to have the strong sense of togetherness with my family that I never had. I want to be able to get along with my In-laws and have a decent relationship with them. I do not want to have to feel like I am stepping on eggshells with them. I also would like to be able to be myself around them. 

Engagement to marriage changes

I wanted there to be a sense of I found my partner in life and am content with my decision. I want to establish roles and responsibilities for household work and have a better way to handle income. I want there to be a feeling of "our bills and our expenses". I want both of us to contribute towards bills without going into savings and be able to save money without moving back in to one of our parents houses. I want there to a sense of doing things for the greater good of the marriage weather it be monitory, time commitment, shifts for work, what we do during quality time. There should be some sort of routine in place and it should be semiauto pilot. I want there to feel like there is some sort of commitment to the relationship. 
I want there to be a better way to handle decision making and what to do in the event of a disagreement. I still want to be shown appreciation and not feel like I am being taken for granted. 

Expectations and roles

This one is hard because we never really set this one up. I know that the things I want in life I cannot afford them on my own. I do not make enough to buy a house or have kids alone. I expect my wife to help contribute towards household income. I expect my wife to be rational about career choices and understand that not all areas in life can be 100% perfect in what you are looking for. I expect my wife to be on the same page with me before acting on individual decisions. I think if we both have the day off it should be expected that we should check with each other before making plans with other people or make other commitments. Example would be Labor Day when you told becca that you would go to ren fair then tell me you were going and then asked if I wanted to go. I feel in that situation it should have gone becca asked, you check to see if I wanted to do anything, and then either go or not based on what was going on. (Just picked that as an example because it came to my mind). 

As far as roles go I think we need to divide up household chores better or do them at all. I need to help with the cooking and cleaning more. I think we should make a list of chores and divide them up or choose to do them together and set a routine up for doing them. I also think we need to establish roles for how we plan to be parents before we reconsider having children.

Going forward 

I want to have a better layout of responsibilities for each of us. I want to have a realistic time frame for when to get out of being in an apartment and to have children. I want to also be looking at retirement and see funds being worked towards that each year. I want to be a part of decision making. I want to know how you are going to contribute financially to this marriage so I can adjust my life to be able to cover the difference that we are lacking. Either pick up a second job or by going back to school to get a higher paying job. I want to decide on a place to live that is convenient for both of us so I can narrow down an area to look for a better career path for me. I also want to have a better feeling of appreciation.

In the next month I want to know if we are going to try to continue this or not.

2-6 months decide when/where we want to move, continue building our relationship and picking a timeframe for children, save up funds, start looking for job options where we decide to move to

7-18 months continue building our relationship, save up lacking funds, have new job lined up/ move

19-37 months continue building our relationship, have one to two kids, figure out the "norm" for life with children

Disclaimer: This is not an all inclusive list but what I can think of in the allowed time. This is not intended to be taken like it is written in stone and needs to be more thought out.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

I guesss I would say it's a bit long.

It's pretty good, but be careful that what you want is impossible for her to give (seems overwhelming).


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

I agree that it is way too long and overwhelming/intimidating to a degree. I would pick the top 3 things that you want from your wife in particular and don't sweat the other stuff. Spell out very clearly what these three things mean and what they entail so that she is in no doubt as to what she needs to do. Avoid ambiguity and vagueness.

Then ask her for the same.

And make sure that these things are doable/achievable.

Her response(not only in words but in actions too) to well chosen top 3 requirements should tell you everything you need to know.


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