# how do i leave her



## ineedhelp2013 (Feb 27, 2013)

Here is my story,

i've been married for 8 years, what attracted me to my wife was her shyness and being very quiet which has not become my worst nightmare. she has no friends, doesnt get along with my family and since she is all alone here and her family is back home she is very needy and wants me to spend every minute of everyday with her. She has alienated me from my friends, my family and my coworkers. she is very attached to her family who visit once a year and she spends every minute with them when they visit for 4-6 weeks every year. she also wants to visit them half way around the world every year for 4-6 weeks. she will not go without me and wants me to spend every minute with her and her family when they are here.
whats worse is she doesnt like me spending time with my family and friends, she always makes excuses to avoid seeing them.

she always belittles me and my family and friends because she comes from a wealthy family. i feel that she feels i and the world owe her something.

now there is more, since we've got married we have virtually had no sex life. she is asexual as she grew up very religious. we obviously have no kids and she thinks sex is only for procreation. 

we dont have much in common, she is info fashion and superficial things whereas i like sports, outdoor things, or simply doing nothing. we never stay at home on weekends and its always going out where she wants to go and do things she wants to do. we have rarely done what i want, for example almost all our vacations have been where she wants to go. and i only give in because trying i have no energy to fight her. she gets what she wants because she is persistent and i'd rather not fight and hear her nag and do what she wants so i can have peace of mind for the time being. i've put all my wants and hopes and desires on hold for her wants and needs.

she is obsessive about cleaning and i cannot be in the house when she is cleaning. i am only allowed to use the bathroom washroom and not the other 2 in the house as she doesnt want to clean more than she has to. i am always nagged about not making a mess or leaving fringerprints on the appliances, splashing water on around the sink, etc. i have to squeegee the shower every morning after my morning shower or use a kleenex to open the fridge door. there is much much more like this. i feel like i'm walking on eggshells and not comfortable in my own house. i dont like being home when shes around. when i'm home and shes not here i feel comfortable but when the door opens and she arrives my blood pressure goes up. I've tried to communicate with her but she doesnt listen. shes like a big kid and dismissed my feelings and my thoughts by laughing at me or changing the topic or not listening.

we constantly fight and never resolve things. i'm a very tolerant person which is likely why things have got this way. i've been thinking of leaving soo many times and for so long. i left once and her family begged me to come back and she said she would change but nothing. another time i called her mom and sister when they were here visiting so we can separate and she wouldnt be alone and she wouldnt let me. she fought and cried and barricaded the door.

we always fight, argue, misunderstand each other. she raises her voice or shows attitude 6 out of 7 days a week. nothing i do for her is good enough. i'm starting to lose my mind.

i need to leave her but since she is so needy i feel bad leaving her alone without any support system. her family is coming in a couple of weeks and its my last hope to be able to get out of this 8 year nightmare. 

i need advice on how to leave her. my folks know the marriage is in trouble but i've never spoke to them about how i feel and i think its time to get them involved. please help me.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

Talk to your family and get their emotional support.

Tell your wife NOW that you are FILING for divorce (don't tell her you 'want' one, don't 'ask' her, just TELL HER...it's a done deal). Do NOT wait for her family to visit. TELL HER NOW so that when they come in a few weeks, they can help her pack her stuff, help her move (back home or to a new apartment or whatever).

Get yourself into Individual Counseling for at least 1/2 dozen sessions. Make sure you get some recommendations on books you can read on your own to help you learn to set healthy boundaries in your future relationships.

Is YOUR family close enough for you to move in with if your STBXW refuses to move home with HER family? If not, figure out WHERE you can live until the divorce is over. You may have to sell the house and split the proceeds with her or buy her out of her half the house.

Talk to a divorce attorney WITHIN the next week! The first visit is usually free or very cheap.

YOU will FEEL BETTER when you realize that it is do-able, there are experts to help, it is a step-by-step process, you know what to expect.

Good luck, and hang in there!


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Before you end your mge---why don't you at least try to get her to an IC

You can always start the D process, but bad as she seems to be----you nevr know what you will end up with----at least your wife is not cheating on you------

Give your mge., a shot and try everything within reason-----at least if the above doesn't work---you can say you tried


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

Oh my, I am so sorry. Knowing what I know now about relationships and trying to get people to change, I'd recommend filing for divorce and asking her to start counseling. You don't have to go through with the divorce if she does make changes, but man, she needs to change a lot. The no sex alone is reason to end the marriage, you don't have to live like that.

Good luck, be strong.


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## ineedhelp2013 (Feb 27, 2013)

Thanks for the advice. 

We tried counseling about 5-6 years ago on the recommendation of one of her sisters who knows everything that is going on. We went for about 4-5 sessions and that just made things worse as she couldn't believe that i would tell a total stranger secret details of our relationship. Several years later i had about 10 sessions myself which was helpful and i started to communicate better and tell her how and when things would hurt me. Unfortunately and likely part of it is my fault you can only hit your head against a wall only so many times and i again started to withdraw and shut down emotionally.

a couple summers ago i would start to uncontrollably cry (not break down but i couldn't hold back the tears) at dinner or when i would watch acts of kindness on tv and she would think that i'm a wimp and say things like men dont cry. is this because i'm missing love and kindness in my life?

there was a point where i could not watch any sexual scenes on movies and tv shows when we are together as my mind would start to spin like crazy. i know have resorted to the internet to get sexual gratification.

i've given it so many tries over the years, i even use events like marriages of family, trips, holidays, etc as reasons to stay another several months and they come and go and nothing changes.

my family lives close by and i will have a good support system. i have a few great friends that i can also turn to. as sad it is seems i feel sorry for her and only stay for that reason because she is so needy i dont think she would be able to cope without any support and thats why i need to wait for her family to come. the last time they came i told her that i wanted to speak with them and get their help and her response was dont ruin their time here as they have their own problems.

she also tends to care what other people say and think more than what i think. so if people were to talk about us being separated or unhappy it would be a black eye on the reputation of her family.

i feel trapped, i feel imprisoned in my life but i have so much to offer the world and have so many things i want to do in life as i really do love living just not with her. i have ideas on where i would live, what i would do, how i would live my life if she were not in it. what i dont know is that am i just thinking the grass is greener on the other side or is my life really really that bad.

i'm also afraid of the whole recovery process and how hard that she may make my life should i leave.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

You need to get back into your counselling, and stick to it. You're just as much at fault for the dynamics of your relationship as your wife is.

As far as how to pull the plug... Get things lined up ASAP. Understand that in most situations, she has just as much right to be in the house as you do, so have an exit strategy in place, like where will you live if you don't want to be in the house with her while you're going through the divorce.

C


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## C3156 (Jun 13, 2012)

You sound like a nice guy, nothing wrong with that. But look around this site at some other threads, you have become her doormat. You bend to her every whim and give her what she wants while your needs and desires go unfulfilled. I suspect that you have a lot of built up anger and resentment.

You have a couple of choices moving forwards. You can go get your balls back from her purse and stand up for yourself or you can do as SGW suggests and just start the paperwork for divorce. Either way, you need to regain who you are and assert yourself.

Some will recommend a book called "No More Mr. Nice Guy" as a way to start changing the dynamics of your relationship. If you want to be with this woman, it may be a place to start. It will take some fortitude on your part and a willingness to be who you want to be regardless of how she acts. Up to you.

Considering the length of time, you probably have a mountain of resentment that would take a long time to get rid of even if your wife did a complete switch in her personallity. I think the best bet is to prepare to end your marriage.

- Make copies of your all you important documents and store them in a safe location.
- Get yourself a counselor to work though all the resentment you have inside. Just having someone to talk to is great.
- Take to a lawyer and get some options
- Go hang out with your buddies again, you will need the support. Lean on your family if they are close.
- Take care of you: go to the gym and work out that energy, eat right, and get enough sleep.

I know you worry about how your wife will react, it is hard not to care after all this time. Just remember, the only person responsible for your happiness is *you*. If your wife refuses to see the situation, that is not your problem.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

1.) It's kind that you're worried about HER, but honestly your FIRST priority is to worry about YOU. You can't be strong for OTHERS if you're not strong for yourself.

2.) She has no friends because she chooses to CLING to you, chooses NOT to make friends (after 8 years here), chooses NOT to get help (because she's perfect and everyone ELSE is just wrong). Okay. That's her perogative, but her REFUSAL to face reality does not make it YOUR JOB to be sucked into her whirlpool. She's sucking the LIFE out of you!

3.) You're NOT weak, or wimpy, or unmanly. You are a HUMAN BEING who has CONSISTENTLY been rejected, unloved, made fun of, isolated, insulted, belittled and ignored. You're just ACHING for a REAL, honest, loving, emotional connection to someone! *THAT* is NORMAL. It's your wife who's screwed-up!

4.) You are NOT trapped. Call a divorce attorney THIS WEEK (it's only Wednesday, get busy!) Go on your lunch hour or after work. Your attorney will tell you:

what to expect during the divorce
exactly what will happen step-by-step
approximate time-frame for your divorce
approximate cost of your divorce
probably division of assets (based on net worth, debt, lack of children, whether spouse works, perhaps lack of sex...depends on EXACTLY where you live)
how to protect yourself financially
how to take care of your STBXW financially
what paperwork to assemble
See! It's a step-by-step process! It is DO-ABLE! You CAN make a SIGNIFICANT change for the better in YOUR life within the next 6 months. BUT, you've got to GET STARTED!

It SEEMS overwhelming to you because you're trying to figure out HOW you're going to get from "A" to "E". You don't! You get there a STEP AT A TIME "A" to "B" to "C" to "D" to "E".

Divorce attorneys are EXPERTS to get you there with the least amount of emotional mess, the least amount of financial loss, the least amount of hassle. Pay them for their expertise and FOLLOW IT.

Get back into IC right away, too! It will be another GREAT support for you!

Keep coming back to TAM for support: to cry, vent, yell, celebrate, seek advice (give some, too...someone else will be a few steps behind where YOU are! they could use your advice or support, too). I'd recommend you keep posting to THIS EXACT THREAD of yours because it makes it easier for people to get your WHOLE story (in the future), remember who you are, and put your updates into context!

Good luck, ineedhelp2013, I'll be pulling for you and looking for your updates!

SGW


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

BTW: If you suspect your wife will try to sabotage you (take all the money out of the bank, go on a wild shopping spree, destroy things, etc.) then talk to an attorney BEFORE you tell her you're divorcing her. Talk to your attorney about your concerns and get his/her advise on how best to protect YOUR ASSETS and financial health. 

Follow C3156's advise about making copies of important documents (before anything 'happens' to them), take NO MORE THAN 1/2 the money from any bank account you intend to close or remove your name from, etc.


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## ineedhelp2013 (Feb 27, 2013)

boy i'm so happy i found TAM. wish i had done it earlier.
i already feel much better that i'm talking about this and being guided along the way. thank you all for your comments and advice.

i'm not too worried about the financial division of assets. i already have something in mind. i dont think she will sabotage anything, heck she doesnt even know how much mortgage we have or much about any of the household finances. i am not worried about who remains in the house, i'd be happy to get out of there as soon as possible. (for example i have to secretly use the bathroom downstairs and my heart starts racing if she were to 'catch me' using it as she will fly off the handle, what man has to put up with that?)

I agree about being her doormat, i allowed that to happen. I do need to grow balls but being in a relationship with someone passive aggressive who doesnt listen to anyone has been sooo difficult that its easier and better to go along with them rather to fight it. but this has led me to where i am today. if there was some sort of compromise on her part we may not be here.

i have tons of built up anger and resentment. its so much that i get dizzy thinking about it. i recently developed vertigo which the doctor thinks its from an ear infection but i think it has to do with my feeling and emotions too.

what i dont understand is why she wants to continue? is it pride or fear of her parents (very strict but loving father) or she wants me to be miserable? there is no way she thinks she is happy and can continue like this. heck she complains every day about the house and cleaning and wanting to see her family and her part time job and the way people drive and on and on and on.

i agree with the counseling/therapy. are there any good online one on one therapy sites?

is the best way to have to contact at all once we no longer live together? do i owe her or family an answer?

thanks again everyone for your support.


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## Pravius (Dec 12, 2012)

I am going through something so similar to you it's not even funny. My wife is also compulsive about cleaning, not to the point yours is, but compulsive. Much like you I also have been letting her control me and treat me like a doormat. I recently discovered something called codependency and I recommend you also read up on it, it sounds like you show some tendencies, that is nothing to be ashamed of, it's easy to correct once you know what it is. 

Here is a place to start working on yourself: 

Recovering from Codependency: The Truth About People-Pleasing - Candace Plattor, M.A., R.C.C.

From there you will see if you are indeed codependent and if you are then I highly suggest a book called codependency no more. It has changed my life and the way I act and has taught me to have respect for myself again, years of rejection can really wear on you, as you know. 

Know that you are not alone, there are many people in your shoes, and there unfortunately will be more. 

However if you take one thing away from all of this support, remember: 

YOU CANNOT CONTROL OTHER PEOPLE, AND YOU CANNOT LET OTHER PEOPLE CONTROL YOU. You have done everything you can, now she has to fix herself and if she chooses not to, it's not your fault!


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## ineedhelp2013 (Feb 27, 2013)

yes i think i am codependent. what hypocritical is my wife thinks i am too when i comes to my family and calls me out on it yet she takes advantage of it with me everyday (i know its with my permission, i'm working on that).

i've started the no more mr nice guy and will read more on codependency. i have come to a point over the last little while that i dont need to have everyone like me and that i dont have to agree with everyone. I have realized that its hard to say no and that saying no is ok. what i need to do now is learn how to deal with with the anxiety or outcomes of saying NO.

i have contacted a family lawyer and will be meeting with them soon.

thanks for all the advice and i appreciate any more.


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## stilllookingup (Oct 29, 2012)

You don't know why she wants you to stay? It's because she's also very codependent and most of all because she's so comfortable with you. Does she have a language barrier living here? or was she born and grown up here?


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## ineedhelp2013 (Feb 27, 2013)

i understand that shes dependent but the tension and atmosphere is sooo bad with all the fighting and neglect and arguing she can surely see that its unhealthy. or at least when i bring up the fact that i cannot go on any longer she doesnt agree with everything being so bad.

your impressions were correct, there is a small language barrier and she was not raised here and moved after finishing university. she was raised in an isolated environment in that everything was done for her and she didnt have many responsibilities growing up. the parents were very strict and their intense involvement with the kids in my opinion was for control rather than spoiling them.

another thing i dont understand is her family is not supportive of her, what i mean by that is they take my side on most issues (or at least in front of me) which doesnt allow her to seek their comfort. it adds to me feeling sorry for her and worried about her support system. i'm not sure and this sounds awful but i cant determine if they pawned her off on me or they feel that a woman has to be with her husband and a homemaker etc...... 

interesting that her older sister eloped when she was in her early 20's and had a child. the father disowned her and after a short time she divorced and moved back home.


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## Canttakeitanymore302 (Mar 2, 2013)

ineedhelp2013 said:


> Here is my story,
> 
> i've been married for 8 years, what attracted me to my wife was her shyness and being very quiet which has not become my worst nightmare. she has no friends, doesnt get along with my family and since she is all alone here and her family is back home she is very needy and wants me to spend every minute of everyday with her. She has alienated me from my friends, my family and my coworkers. she is very attached to her family who visit once a year and she spends every minute with them when they visit for 4-6 weeks every year. she also wants to visit them half way around the world every year for 4-6 weeks. she will not go without me and wants me to spend every minute with her and her family when they are here.
> whats worse is she doesnt like me spending time with my family and friends, she always makes excuses to avoid seeing them.
> ...


I feel for you! I suffer from a lot of what you describe. The difference is the sex part. I do not want to be with her. I suppose the resentment and anxiety of being around her has completely turned me off of her and she does not understand that. I should just man up and have sex with her. Get over it. Some guys have feelings too I suppose and after years of dealing with this cramp I just don't want sex with her. 

I don't know where to go or what do to do next either. I wish you luck.


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## nevergveup (Feb 18, 2013)

Well,she is totally taking advantage of you.The classic nice guy syndrome.She wants to act like a little girl so treat her like
one.If she ever tells you she wants to live back home,tell her your gonna miss her.Tell her shes free to go.Its not your fault she has no friends.

1.Talk to a lawyer about divorcing her.
This will show her you 100% serious and not playing games.

2.Tell her the things that need to change in the marriage.

If you stay married to her,it will only get worse and you will
be with a woman you hate.There is a high chance you would
eventually cheat on her.

Life is hard enough with out having to live with a spouse who is selfish and spoiled.Her words to you are also mental abuse.
If her family is everything let her go back and live with them
She has never grow up.

If she isn't willing to change any,then divorce her.You will be
alone but, you wont have the stress of her around.


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## nevergveup (Feb 18, 2013)

Canttakeitanymore302 said:


> I feel for you! I suffer from a lot of what you describe. The difference is the sex part. I do not want to be with her. I suppose the resentment and anxiety of being around her has completely turned me off of her and she does not understand that. I should just man up and have sex with her. Get over it. Some guys have feelings too I suppose and after years of dealing with this cramp I just don't want sex with her.
> 
> I don't know where to go or what do to do next either. I wish you luck.


Sorry,I'm a nice guy but I have a backbone.Both of you need
start standing up when your right and learn to say no.
What have you got to loose.You need to learn that you can be fair,but firm at the same time.


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## ineedhelp2013 (Feb 27, 2013)

nevergveup said:


> Well,she is totally taking advantage of you.The classic nice guy syndrome.She wants to act like a little girl so treat her like
> one.If she ever tells you she wants to live back home,tell her your gonna miss her.Tell her shes free to go.Its not your fault she has no friends.
> 
> 1.Talk to a lawyer about divorcing her.
> ...



she does on occasion say that she only stayed here because of me and that she wishes she was back home. I told her she could go and its better to be there and happy versus here and miserable. once she went back and i told her to stay there as its best for everyone but i think her parents may have forced her to come back.

I know i have to be firm but i think its too late to salvage anything. its reached a point where i become anxious and nervous around her and always fearful that she will raise her voice or nag about everything or decides to take out her frustrations on me. this is not healthy for me to be subjected to that as its affected every aspect of my life including my health. My mental health is what i'm most concerned about.

as for her changing, she cannot until she acknowledges there is something wrong. but she is in denial. she uses cleaning as a form of therapy and lashing out at me for destroying her life. 
she may also have some other underlying issues that i could not crack in 8 years. perhaps she was abused as a child and hence being very asexual. this is not my problem anymore to try to fix or worry about.

i know what has to be done and even though it wont be easy i have to do whats best for me.


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## ineedhelp2013 (Feb 27, 2013)

how do i bring up the D topic? her parents will be here in about 2 weeks and i need to have everything aligned for the separation.

recall she is like a big kid and when i try to talk to her about anything she laughs or brushes it off or she will become very aggressive and starts lashing out about how i can never make anyone happy and i will never find someone like her and i cannot be with anyone and so on.

is this something that is done at home? what happens after the chat? I feel like a child thats been emasculated when it comes to her and i cant believe i am asking these questions. i'm disappointed at myself


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## nevergveup (Feb 18, 2013)

I know its scary but stop being afraid of her.What is she gonna do divorce you.She knows how you will respond when she does something to you.IF she yells tell her you will talk to her when she calm down.

When she does something that bothers you stop her,then and hold your ground.Reinforce in your words you love her but
she has to change this behavior.Stop being afraid in your own 
house.You should have to walk around like this.Sometimes we need to be mean and firm in life or we get walked on.

Start using the word stop and no more with her and tell her to here face when shes in the wrong.Dont' you see her parents
already see your a good catch of a husband and that why they don't take her side.Do things and try to drag her along.

Break her pattern shes gotten into.
This is coming from a good guy so I know.


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## ineedhelp2013 (Feb 27, 2013)

i wanted to let everyone know what has happened and here's an update.

I've spoken to 2 family lawyers in my area and have an idea how i have to proceed. Its much more complicated than i had imagined and will be more difficult than i thought. It wont be separate and i can move on 

I've told my soon to be ex that I am not happy in the marriage and that this is not a healthy relationship. She's in denial still. 
her parents are coming soon and they too will be informed of my decision.

I've spoken to my best friend who is very supportive. I will be telling my parents as well in the next day or so.

Now for how i've been feeling. Its sad and i feel like a bad person for doing this but i know i have to. Just in the last couple of weeks things have been as bad as before. When i get to the point where i'm sooo mad and angry over the way she treats me and speaks to me i feel justified for everything i'm doing and how i'm feeling. When i look at her when i'm not angry i feel sorry for her and that i'm abandoning her. She needs help as there are underlying issues that even i dont know about. But i know i cant help her.

The next step is to leave or ask her to leave and go stay with her parents.

Again thanks for the support.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Pack your stuff and leave.

There's nothing stopping you.

Do it while she"s out of the house to avoid a nasty confrontation and go.

She'll figure it out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I agree with Tacoma, just leave.

Let her have her parents visit her at the house. You do not have to be there for that. Hopefully they will convince her to go back home with them.


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## ineedhelp2013 (Feb 27, 2013)

yes i do have to stop feeling sorry for her. 

everything that happens now a days just solidifies my decision and gives me justification. Just yesterday she made a huge deal about going to my parents for dinner, she purposely delayed getting ready so we would be late as she knew my sisters kids need to eat early and have to sleep early. maybe a small thing but this led to an argument in the car made me want to crash the vehicle.....

everyday she tries to push my buttons and the more i let it slide the more she tries to push them. after dinner at home i was trying to watch a program, one of only a couple that i like to watch religiously but she asked me to get up from watching my show and help her at least 5 times with the spring cleaning of the cabinets (on a monday night between 930 and 11pm) . recall the cleaning OCD that she has. 

i know im ranting but i want to know if i'm just over reacting or its normal.

i wont say every time but 8 out 10 going to an event or gathering that involves my family she will pick a fight before or after with me. it usually involves not wanting to go or why no one called her specifically to invite her or why we have to go. when we return its why did so and so say that or why doesnt anyone pay attention to her or that everyone respects and does what everyone else wants and not I (or her).

again sorry for the rant but is marriage and life supposed to be like this??

I have spoken to my family and they are 100% supportive of my decision. the ball is in motion.


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## stilllookingup (Oct 29, 2012)

Oh boy she doesn't get it does she? She still asks you to help her cleaning after you told her how you feel? I stopped everything we used to do together when he told me how he was feeling and when I knew he was dead serious. 

I'm raising eyebrows a bit on one thing though - why does she have to move out? You are the one who wants to end this, correct? You should move out in my opinion unless the house you two live in your name. Or better yet, if you still care about her and have respect, ask her what you guys should do about living situations.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stilllookingup (Oct 29, 2012)

If you don't think she can handle such a conversation, just tell her you are leaving so she has time to think about her living situation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BrockLanders (Jul 23, 2012)

ineedhelp2013 said:


> yes i do have to stop feeling sorry for her.
> 
> everything that happens now a days just solidifies my decision and gives me justification. Just yesterday she made a huge deal about going to my parents for dinner, she purposely delayed getting ready so we would be late as she knew my sisters kids need to eat early and have to sleep early. maybe a small thing but this led to an argument in the car made me want to crash the vehicle.....
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear of your pain.

Why are you still taking her to dinner at your parents house? You're getting divorced. 

Also, question: are you from a culture that considers divorce to be shameful or taboo?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stilllookingup (Oct 29, 2012)

I wondered about that too. Why taking her to YOUR parents for dinner at all when you are so set on divorce. If I were her I would have felt little uneasy too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ineedhelp2013 (Feb 27, 2013)

BrockLanders said:


> Sorry to hear of your pain.
> 
> Why are you still taking her to dinner at your parents house? You're getting divorced.
> 
> ...


our culture does consider divorce shameful. her family has gone through one divorce and i may be going out on a limb here but i think the younger sister and her husband are not happy either.

we still go to my parents house for a couple of reasons. one even though they can tell we are unhappy they want to see me (us) and i had not told them of my decision (just did yesterday). also recall that shes controlling and wont allow me to go by myself. she will think we are devising an elaborate plot against her when she is not there. should i go there without her there will be a huge fight afterwards as she will pick at any little thing and say did your folks teach you that or is that what everyone else thinks etc.... i know its my fault but its easier to take her and put up with a little BS then not take her and take a lot of BS. plus while she is there she doesnt act out so i get 2 hours of peace and quiet with my loved ones. 

i hope no one ever has to go through this but whenever i'm with my friends or family she is always suspicious, not of another woman but since she is not close to anyone and doesnt have any friends she fears them stealing me away from her. so if i'm out with the boys or superbowl night for example she will call and ask what i'm doing and who i'm with in front of everyone. Like she didnt know shes watching the same damn thing at home and knows its only the 3rd quarter.she thinks all my friends are bad and coworkers are evil and my family well she politely degrades them.....im at the point i dont want see friends and family for the fear that my phone will ring and its her......i know its a shame but thats where its reached that i dont want go out or see anyone.

she doesnt want to visit my sick grandmother and doesnt want me to go alone either....does that make sense??
its not my fault her 2 grandmothers are back home and i never said to replace hers with mine but she can become close to mine as they too have great stories to share (even embarrassing ones of me).

i know so much of it is my fault for letting it get to where it is today but i've focused so much on my career and didnt let these little things bother me but now i've built up a mountain of resentment and anger and cannot take it anymore.

to comment on who has to move out. i dont care, i will move or she can move. its not a big deal to me. and no she doesnt get it. shes been asking for a diamond and finally after brushing it off i said no but she still asks if i can take a day off and go with her to get one.......... denial isnt just a river in Egypt


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## caladan (Nov 2, 2012)

I hope you don't sleep in the same room? Move into another room and lock the door.

You need to man up here bro, face the music head on, stop discussing flimsies like diamonds.


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## ineedhelp2013 (Feb 27, 2013)

ok so here is an update. I've spoken to her family and perhaps there was a misunderstanding but they wanted to verify things with their daughter. i explained there is nothing to verify and that i cannot go on any longer living with her. there was no formal arrangements as to who stays and who moves out and i really dont care. i ran into her and her mom the other night and the mother cornered me to and begged me to stay and try it a little longer. i respectfully said i could not. it was late and they stayed in the guest room and i in the master. i left early the next day and told my soon to be ex that i did not appreciate being cornered like that.

so the last few days i feel more at ease and more calm. she has been begging me to come back and give her another shot and i explain that i cannot not for the safety of my own mental health. she is in denial but its not my problem anymore. 
she avoids discussing who stays in the house and who moves out so i've been living at my sisters but its awkward and uncomfortable but i knew it wouldnt be easy.

my family and my best friend has also been very supportive. its hard saying no and that and not feeling guilty about it but its the right thing to do.

she cannot admit to her parents that she is miserable and unhappy. she cant admit it to herself. and her family i think is trying to reconcile us but i'd rather they support her and help her through it as they are not helping with their actions.


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## sunny-side (Mar 28, 2013)

I have been in an identical situation for years. It's just as so many relate, it's like the life has been sucked out of you. You end up making excuses for this person, allowing them to continue to be needy and obsessive, hoping they will get better. I've even been through the religious "no sex" crazy stuff.

The only difference for me is that I now have two children with my spouse. You have no kids, I say pack it up and move on, there is no changing her. 

Although, threat of you actually leaving could possibly change her, but do you even care at this point?

Good luck.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

INH, the behaviors you describe -- i.e., the clinging neediness, temper tantrums, verbal abuse, controlling behavior, intolerance of being alone, and easily triggered anger -- are some of the classic traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Whether your W has most of the BPD traits at a strong level is very unclear. I nonetheless believe it may be worth your while to read about these traits to see if most sound very familiar to you.

Importantly, only a professional can determine whether your W's BPD traits are strong enough to meet 100% of the diagnostic criteria for having full-blown BPD. Yet, even when BPD traits fall well short of that diagnostic level, they can still be strong enough to make your life miserable and undermine a marriage.

Moreover, there is a world of difference between diagnosing a disorder and simply spotting the red flags (i.e., warning signs) for it. After you've been living with someone for 8 years, it should not be difficult to spot the red flags once you know what to look for. There is nothing subtle about traits such as verbal abuse, temper tantrums, and very controlling behavior.


ineedhelp2013 said:


> She is very needy and wants me to spend every minute of everyday with her.


That behavior is to be expected if she has strong BPD traits. BPDers (i.e., those with strong traits) have such a weak sense of who they are that they have a strong desire to be around someone with a strong personality that will center and ground them. They therefore generally hate to be alone.


> She always belittles me and my family and friends.


BPDers typically are filled with anger, self loathing, and shame. It therefore is common for them to belittle and verbally abuse their loved ones. It also is common for them to refuse to accept responsibility for their own actions. Instead, they generally blame every misfortune on their spouse. This is done because a BPDer typically is convinced she is "The Victim," always "The Victim."


> She wouldnt be alone and she wouldnt let me. she fought and cried and barricaded the door.


Although a BPDer will blame every misfortune on her spouse and will frequently devalue him, she usually does not want him to leave. As I said above, BPDers have a great fear of abandonment and usually fear being alone. This is why the #2 best-selling BPD book (targeted to the abused spouses) is called _I Hate You, Don't Leave Me._


> I feel like i'm walking on eggshells and not comfortable in my own house.


This is a common complaint of spouses who are living with a BPDer. This is why the #1 best-selling BPD book is called _Stop Walking on Eggshells._


> she has no friends, doesnt get along with my family and ...has alienated me from my friends, my family and my coworkers.


This is another example of typical BPDer behavior. Because BPDers have a great fear of abandonment, they typically will try to isolate their spouse from all friends and family members as soon as the wedding is done. When the spouse's support network is removed, it is far easier for the BPDer to control every aspect of the spouse's daily life (thereby reducing the chance he will leave or will spend time with others).


> Since we've got married we have virtually had no sex life.


With BPDers, it is common for sexual activity and intimacy to go off a cliff right after the wedding, if not sooner. The main reason is that BPDers have such fragile self images that they feel suffocated and engulfed during intimate moments. Hence, although BPDers usually crave intimacy, they fear the frightening feeling of engulfment that accompanies it.


> Shes like a big kid.


If she has strong BPD traits, it would be more accurate to say she's like a LITTLE kid. BPDers typically have the emotional development of a four year old because something -- most likely a combination of genetics and a trauma like abuse or abandonment -- froze their development at that young age.


> We constantly fight and never resolve things.


BPDers typically are not interested in finding solutions or creating compromises. Instead, they usually only want to create DRAMA, because it validates their false self image of being "The Victim."


> I need to leave her but since she is so needy i feel bad leaving her alone without any support system.


It is good that you are willing to help her reunite with her supportive family. Yet, if she is a BPDer who is unwilling to seek therapy, you are harming her with your enabling behavior if you continue to remain with her in the toxic marriage. If she is unwilling to seek IC therapy, the only incentive she will likely have to confront her own issues will be if you stop protecting her from the logical consequences of her own destructive behavior.

INH, please keep in mind that every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all nine of the BPD traits, albeit at a low level if the person is healthy. At issue, then, is NOT whether your W has BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do. This is why BPD is said to be a "spectrum disorder." 

Rather, the issue is whether she has most BPD traits at a strong level. I don't know the answer to that question. I nonetheless am confident that you can learn to spot any and all BPD traits that are occurring strongly. One reason for doing that is to help you have a better sense of closure and less guilt about your walking away from a sick loved one. Another reason is that, if you've been living with a BPDer for 8 years, you are at risk of running away from your wife only to run right into the arms of another woman just like her.

I therefore encourage you to read about BPD traits so you can spot the red flags. An easy place to begin, here on TAM, is my post at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522. That post describes the traits based on my 15 years of experience while married to a BPDer. If that description rings a bell, I would be glad to discuss it with you and point you to good online resources. Take care, INH.


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## ineedhelp2013 (Feb 27, 2013)

that is correct i dont care at this point anymore to help her. its up to her family and herself to get the help she needs.

so its been over a week and typically i've stayed at my sisters house which is very close to mine. i'm going to my house to pick up things and shower when i can and do laundry when i know shes not there. i slept there 2 nights. one night she came home with her mom and her mom started begging me to stay and try it again and with respect i said i cannot. that got me really angry that they ambushed me.

to show my level of frustration she keeps telling me she's sorry and will change. she keeps saying why am i doing this to her where i've told her a million times how i feel and did it in front of her mother last week so there is no doubt in anyones eyes.

more frustration is trying her to answer who will live at the house interim. she avoids the question entirely as she is in denial. 

i also cant understand why the parents are not supportive and helping her out versus telling her she is wrong and she needs to change.

just wanted to update the forum and its good to keep a log for my own sake.

to let everyone know, even though its not easy i'm very much more at peace and relaxed during my days/nights, not worried that someone will come and start yelling at me or questioning where i am or force me to go out when i dont want to or complain at the tv shows i watch, and so on.....


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