# Masturbation creating a problem?



## ComplicatedMarriage (Jun 3, 2021)

So, I posted some last summer because I wasn't happy with the amount of sex my husband and I were having. For the most part, we've gotten back to having sex approximately once a week, which is what it has been for most of our marriage. So. . . progress. It's still not as much as I would like most of the time, but it's reasonable to me given that we are in our 40's now and haven't ever really had much more than that. That said, things have changed a bit during sex itself which I will explain more below. Honestly, I'm very busy during certain times of the year with my job and volunteer work and perhaps am allowing the stresses and other things of life to keep my mind off of my frustrations during much of the year (yes, I know, probably not healthy, but it's just reality). At times the emotional work it takes is more than I have energy for, so then I just end up not having the amount of sex I would like, but I really am trying to put the energy into making it what I hope it can be. Not thinking about it too much gives the space to allow things to happen naturally, too, or at least that's my thought, which definitely can make for more quality sex _at times_. However, I'm finding sex less and less fulfilling even during busy times when I guess I'm a little more OK with less sex because of the business of life even though I would prefer more. But the summertime is even harder when I find myself less busy with obligations, more interest in sex, and fewer distractions, and so here I am again. . .

So all that to say that I'm still struggling some. I had quite a few conversations last summer with my husband about my feelings regarding our sex life, my desires, and where I felt I would like changes, along with openness about any changes he would want. While he was super understanding, I think it's a turn-off for him when I bring these things up even though I try to be as understanding and kind as possible while still expressing my feelings. He pretty much said as much when we discussed my frustrations - that he wished I would just show him I want sex by doing rather than telling him how I've felt hurt. He doesn't enjoy talking about it. So despite my discomfort with taking the lead, I've really tried to do better. In any case, long story short - I think bringing up sex reduces our physical intimacy to some extent when I bring it up in conversation even though it shouldn't.

My concerns at this point are two-fold. Firstly, sex seems to have become rote and boring much of the time when we do have it. I'm trying to go out of my way at least a little to make it interesting (he seems to appreciate it when I purchase new lingerie, so I do now and again), and I try during sex to please him as much as possible because I want him to have enjoyment out of it. That is about equally important to me as getting enjoyment out of it myself because I want it to be mutually enjoyable and intimate. But often, it seems like he's trying too hard to get me to orgasm (which frankly, while an orgasm is great, it's more about the shared intimacy with him than that), and as such, it's becoming somewhat unenjoyable for me in those moments. Of course, it's not that I don't want him to try and please me, but it feels all wrong somehow in that maybe it's a chore to be accomplished rather than a sharing of intimacy because really if things just go naturally, I usually do orgasm without the need for manual stimulation or whatever. This isn't every encounter, but it's frequent, even when he initially seems very in the mood. I'm not at all demanding (other than having asked for a greater frequency) and never have been, so I don't believe I'm imposing any kind of pressure to perform and would never intentionally do so.

I'm wondering if another issue is possibly creating part of what's happening above. . . One thing I was also struggling with last year (and have continued to notice) was not being sure he was having an orgasm, as I wanted to know I was pleasing him, as well. It's not a problem if he doesn't. I have put ZERO pressure on him about this and have never even brought it up to him, so please don't take me to mean that. It's more about me wanting to know he is also receiving enjoyment, although I've tried to place less focus on it myself, as well. But it still worries me at times that nothing noticeable has taken place for him or that special measures seem to have to take place for him to finish. Half of the time, I can't tell if he's "finished" or wants to go on. I've also noticed that in recent times, he prefers to be positioned behind me. Or if in missionary position, he only seems to finish if I squeeze my legs together with his penis in between (sorry for being so graphic, but it relates to my post). He also seems to take quite some time these days in the bathroom after sex when presumable he is cleaning up, but I can't help but wonder if he is finishing what wasn't able to be finished during our time together. While I'm not opposed to doing the things mentioned above (certain positions, etc.) at times, I would really like to have a lovemaking session that doesn't feel like pleasure is forced or a chore. I'm wondering if he is masturbating and it is causing him to have difficulty with partner sex. I know the only way to truly find out is to ask him, but I can't even imagine how I can broach the subject without him feeling insulted or hurt, especially given the sensitivity that has now arisen for him talking about sex after our many talks last year. I think it was important that we talked, but as hard as it is to bring up for me, it seems even harder for him. What has garnered my suspicion are these changes in positions he prefers, how it seems that he doesn't finish, and he takes VERY long showers at times (to be fair, though, he pretty much always has - but we did have issues early in marriage as well), and I can't help but wonder if he's spending more time with himself that is creating issues with us. He still seems interested in having sex with me on the whole. So that is a silver lining I suppose.

I'm just at a loss for what to do since talking about sex, in general, seems to create this weird thing between us despite trying to keep it calm and kind, and I certainly don't want him to feel in some way insulted if I ask about his masturbating habits. But if it's creating problems in our sex life, I think it's probably fair to know. Maybe I'm overthinking things, and this isn't even what's going on. I know that's a possibility, too. But any time I have enough time to try to process my feelings about our sex life, I feel almost distraught again, wondering if it will ever be as it should or could be. We've had some great sex at times, and while I, of course, don't necessarily expect fireworks at every encounter, it seems less and less fulfilling. I just want us to have quality intimate moments together on a regular basis. While pleasure is a nice side benefit, I'm after the intimacy more than anything, I think. And so, even if we have more sex, if it's something that seems rote, despite my attempts to make it otherwise, it leaves me feeling frustrated. Is it possible masturbation is causing this disconnect? Despite 20 years of marriage, I have no idea what his habits are in this area. He's never been that open with me. I don't think it's that I've done anything to make him feel unsafe emotionally. He's just always been a very private person, and I'm quite sure it's something he'd rather not talk about, even with me. The only time he ever mentioned it was when to my surprise he was going to forgo a condom after his vasectomy, and I didn't think we could yet do that yet without risking pregnancy. So he admitted he "took care of things himself a few times," and I wasn't terribly concerned about it given that I knew we were both ready for sex again without a condom. I'm honestly not sure of my feelings about him masturbating, but seeing as how I'm already frustrated with frequency, it doesn't make sense to me that he would be servicing himself without sharing more with me (and again, I don't know for sure that he is). And I'm not sure he's doing it "too often" to the exclusion of time with me, but I'm more worried that maybe the way it's happening is causing this need for changes in our partnered sex (I'm truly trying not to be too explicit). I'm pretty certain, and thankfully so, that he does NOT use porn for what that's worth. I don't know if I've overshared or if I'm overthinking or what. But I need a safe space to process my emotions and maybe some advice, too.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

It sounds like he could be doing that after you’re both “finished” but hard to say. You say he’s “trying too hard” - what do you think has changed? Was sex more effortless for you both in the past?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> So, I posted some last summer because I wasn't happy with the amount of sex my husband and I were having. For the most part, we've gotten back to having sex approximately once a week, which is what it has been for most of our marriage. So. . . progress. It's still not as much as I would like most of the time, but it's reasonable to me given that we are in our 40's now and haven't ever really had much more than that. That said, things have changed a bit during sex itself which I will explain more below. Honestly, I'm very busy during certain times of the year with my job and volunteer work and perhaps am allowing the stresses and other things of life to keep my mind off of my frustrations during much of the year (yes, I know, probably not healthy, but it's just reality). At times the emotional work it takes is more than I have energy for, so then I just end up not having the amount of sex I would like, but I really am trying to put the energy into making it what I hope it can be. Not thinking about it too much gives the space to allow things to happen naturally, too, or at least that's my thought, which definitely can make for more quality sex _at times_. However, I'm finding sex less and less fulfilling even during busy times when I guess I'm a little more OK with less sex because of the business of life even though I would prefer more. But the summertime is even harder when I find myself less busy with obligations, more interest in sex, and fewer distractions, and so here I am again. . .
> 
> So all that to say that I'm still struggling some. I had quite a few conversations last summer with my husband about my feelings regarding our sex life, my desires, and where I felt I would like changes, along with openness about any changes he would want. While he was super understanding, I think it's a turn-off for him when I bring these things up even though I try to be as understanding and kind as possible while still expressing my feelings. He pretty much said as much when we discussed my frustrations - that he wished I would just show him I want sex by doing rather than telling him how I've felt hurt. He doesn't enjoy talking about it. So despite my discomfort with taking the lead, I've really tried to do better. In any case, long story short - I think bringing up sex reduces our physical intimacy to some extent when I bring it up in conversation even though it shouldn't.
> 
> ...


Just like with many women it's probably at this point just easier for him to orgasm masturbating. I think it sounds like both of you are sort of on the spot under pressure to perform and that it's jacking things up. He may be so afraid he's going to do something wrong that he can't even let go or something. 

Are you talking during sex? I mean in sentences, not one word impassioned blurts. 

Is porn anywhere in the picture? I don't think you mentioned it. I only asked in case it might be responsible for him having favorite scenarios without which he has trouble being excited enough now, which is a fairly common problem.

Talking about sex can be a big turn off for people. It just becomes a little too analytical and could make him feel self-conscious just as it makes a lot of women feel self-conscious. 

Do you encourage him when you're in the middle of it he hits the right spot and it feels good? It only takes one word to let someone know what they're doing is working to encourage them. I think with most people that happens involuntarily but if that's not true with you maybe you should just try that.


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## ComplicatedMarriage (Jun 3, 2021)

*Deidre* said:


> Was sex more effortless for you both in the past?


Yes, or at least more natural. It's like he's trying to make me orgasm, but I don't need him to try as 5hat usually happens well enough without anything extra. I just want him to be engaged in the act with me and not worried about performance, I guess. It's come to seem like he's doing a chore rather enjoying the moment.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> Yes, or at least more natural. It's like he's trying to make me orgasm, but I don't need him to try as 5hat usually happens well enough without anything extra. I just want him to be engaged in the act with me and not worried about performance, I guess. It's come to seem like he's doing a chore rather enjoying the moment.


Each time after you orgasm, you finish him with a handy and he finishes somewhere on you, you'll know he had an orgasm.

Sorry for the graphic content. If you do that each time questions will be answered and maybe variation can be added to your sex life.

If you two live alone just flat tell him he doesn't have to take long showers or lock a door. Everyone can walk around naked anyway. Just free his and your mind. Big picture is there is absolutely no need for anything to be hidden like it's not normal.

Too much time wasted worrying when it can be addressed with tact, humor, and growth.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Each time after you orgasm, you finish him with a handy and he finishes somewhere on you, you'll know he had an orgasm.
> 
> Sorry for the graphic content. If you do that each time questions will be answered and maybe variation can be added to your sex life.
> 
> If you two live alone just flat tell him he doesn't have to take long showers or lock a door. Everyone can walk around naked anyway. Just free his, and your mind. Too much time wasted worrying when it can be addressed with tact, humor, and growth.


Yeah, but like a lot of women if he's not comfortable talking about sex in full sentences, which isn't really unusual, he may also not be comfortable walking around naked or masturbating in front of his wife. Everyone is different. But yeah she ought to be able to tell whether he orgasm or not just by changing up the logistics a little like you said.


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## ComplicatedMarriage (Jun 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Do you encourage him when you're in the middle of it he hits the right spot and it feels good?


With words, no. With enthusiasm, yes. I do believe he knows it because he has become more proficient through the years, and it does often seem to motivate him during the act. Just not sure why everything seems so off other than that I have asked for more sex. 

I'm pretty certain that he is NOT using porn. When sex declined rapidly last year, that was definitely something I was on the lookout for.

And no, we don't generally talk during sex. I'm a bit more reserved that way. He occasionally uses a little "dirty talk" and I have at times reciprocated, but it's generally brief. When I've talked to him about my frustrations, it's been outside of the bedroom when hopefully emotions aren't running too high. But he's so private about things...


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Yeah, but like a lot of women if he's not comfortable talking about sex and full senators which isn't really unusual, he may also not be comfortable walking around naked or masturbating in front of his wife. Everyone is different. But yeah she ought to be able to tell whether he orgasm or not just by changing up the logistics a little like you said.


That uncomfortableness still remains because a persons thinks they may be thought ill of, and that feeling yes can be both spouses.

It's sad because in an ltr M, if one doesn't get comfortable with spouse with these normal, common acts, the couple has totally unnecessary stress and misses out on an improved relationship.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> With words, no. With enthusiasm, yes. I do believe he knows it because he has become more proficient through the years, and it does often seem to motivate him during the act. Just not sure why everything seems so off other than that I have asked for more sex.
> 
> I'm pretty certain that he is NOT using porn. When sex declined rapidly last year, that was definitely something I was on the lookout for.
> 
> And no, we don't generally talk during sex. I'm a bit more reserved that way. He occasionally uses a little "dirty talk" and I have at times reciprocated, but it's generally brief. When I've talked to him about my frustrations, it's been outside of the bedroom when hopefully emotions aren't running too high. But he's so private about things...


Are you both uncomfortable walking around the house nude with each other?

Because face it, be free with your H or who else in the world can you be free with?

You'll be surprised at how quickly the uncomfortable feelings will pass.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Sounds like he wants you to hurry up so it will be over soon?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Openminded said:


> Sounds like he wants you to hurry up so it will be over soon?


Ha! Role reversal anyone 🤣🤣🤣


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Ha! Role reversal anyone 🤣🤣🤣


It happens. Performance anxiety just manifesting a different way. Just be glad it isn't a full-on ED happening.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Never mind.


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## ComplicatedMarriage (Jun 3, 2021)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Are you both uncomfortable walking around the house nude with each other?


That would definitely take some getting used to for me. That said, we have two teenagers at home currently, so that's probably not an option.

That said, he doesn't lock the bathroom when showering, so there's not really any reason I couldn't go in. But without a reason to enter, it seems like a breach of trust to just march in perhaps? I'm just wondering if that's what is going on if it might be creating some of the issues.


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## ComplicatedMarriage (Jun 3, 2021)

Openminded said:


> Sounds like he wants you to hurry up so it will be over soon?


Good question. This is part of my concern, but I'm not sure why. And especially when he seems to be in the mood. I'm just perplexed and trying not to feel hurt. I feel like it's just complicated.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> That would definitely take some getting used to for me. That said, we have two teenagers at home currently, so that's probably not an option.
> 
> That said, he doesn't lock the bathroom when showering, so there's not really any reason I couldn't go in. But without a reason to enter, it seems like a breach of trust to just march in perhaps? I'm just wondering if that's what is going on if it might be creating some of the issues.


Nothing like asking him.


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## Quad73 (May 10, 2021)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> It's like he's trying to make me orgasm, but I don't need him to try as 5hat usually happens well enough without anything extra. I just want him to be engaged in the act with me and not worried about performance, I guess.


I know this will sound rather simplistic, but this is exactly what he needs to hear from you until he really gets it; you said it all very well here. 

Have you told him that you orgasm all the time, he doesn't need to try hard, to just -enjoy himself- << emphasis here - - knowing that you're having a great time? This would do wonders for a guy who's self conscious about performance or overly concerned about your enjoyment.


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## woodyh (Oct 23, 2015)

Most men want their wife to enjoy sex fully, ie. orgasm, that is why he works so hard at it!

As far as masturbation goes, I think it can be a difficult thing for some people to talk about. And a lot of men masturbate if they aren't getting regular sex from the wife. For me, when I got mid 40's, masturbating sometime before sex and then have sex didn't goes as well. So, I talked to the wife about it and for the past several years, if I want sex, I always ask first. If she is not in the mood, tired etc., I can masturbate. The big thing is, I stopped masturbating without her knowledge FIRST. That way there is no surprises. It was a little embarrassing at first, but it has worked great for us.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> Yes, or at least more natural. It's like he's trying to make me orgasm, but I don't need him to try as 5hat usually happens well enough without anything extra. I just want him to be engaged in the act with me and not worried about performance, I guess. It's come to seem like he's doing a chore rather enjoying the moment.


I feel like sex should just naturally happen and so far, that’s the case between my husband and me but when I read stories like yours, I wonder if this happens at some point in all marriages, maybe things get a little “off” as you say. From how you describe your husband, he sounds very open to discussion but I think when you have to discuss it, that can take the fun and spontaneity out of it.

I don’t get the sense that he’s bored or trying to rush you - maybe he just is doing what he always has, and doesn’t realize that sexuality evolves and maybe you’re looking for something different. That doesn’t mean he’s failing in the bedroom but he just needs to be open to change. I remember a guy I dated before I got married, who “tried hard” and I asked him to stop (because I’m not faking it) so I totally understand what you’re going through. Not the reason we’re not together but it didn’t help. Lol

Maybe explain some of this to him - if he doesn’t like verbally discussing it, consider writing a letter or sending an email. That could help open his mind up to understanding you without arguing etc…


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## ComplicatedMarriage (Jun 3, 2021)

Quad73 said:


> I know this will sound rather simplistic, but this is exactly what he needs to hear from you until he really gets it; you said it all very well here.


I think this is good advice, but I'm a bit at a loss for how and/or when to say it. First, how do I say to someone to stop trying so hard? Doesn't that come across as insulting? And do I do this outside of the bedroom or during sex. If during sex, again, I don't want to hurt his feelings in some way. I'm getting the bare minimum amount of sex that I feel I can tolerate as it is, so I don't want to do anything to decrease it. At the same time, I agree that I probably need to share this with him. I'm just not really sure how. Any advice on how to approach it?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> I think this is good advice, but I'm a bit at a loss for how and/or when to say it. First, how do I say to someone to stop trying so hard? Doesn't that come across as insulting? And do I do this outside of the bedroom or during sex. If during sex, again, I don't want to hurt his feelings in some way. I'm getting the bare minimum amount of sex that I feel I can tolerate as it is, so I don't want to do anything to decrease it. At the same time, I agree that I probably need to share this with him. I'm just not really sure how. Any advice on how to approach it?


While sitting in the living room in a peaceful moment, just bring it up in a nonconfrontational way.
Get over your reluctance. If you start it, the discussion will become less hard. The pay off is well worth it.


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## ComplicatedMarriage (Jun 3, 2021)

woodyh said:


> As far as masturbation goes, I think it can be a difficult thing for some people to talk about. And a lot of men masturbate if they aren't getting regular sex from the wife. For me, when I got mid 40's, masturbating sometime before sex and then have sex didn't goes as well. So, I talked to the wife about it and for the past several years, if I want sex, I always ask first. If she is not in the mood, tired etc., I can masturbate.


I think this would be a perfectly acceptable solution for me, but he's definitely getting regular sex from me, and I'm already not getting nearly as much sex as I'd like. If he even has the inclination to that, I agree that he better be asking me first because I'm probably up for having sex. Since I've felt so hurt about not getting enough sex in recent years, even in those times when I'm not in the mood, I do NOT turn him down. I try to get into it, and as such, once things get rolling I'm happy to be there. The only time he is ever turned down these days is if I'm on my period. And he's never suggested that we try to do it during that time or I would be willing. I think he'd likely be squeamish about it, though. In fact, the last time that I was on my period and he initiated, I considered still pleasing him in other ways but was just cramping so much that I didn't think it would go well and let him know that I would definitely be up for getting it on in a few days. Maybe I just need to find a way to broach the subject with him, but I haven't any idea how. I wish he were more open. We've made a lot of progress in communicating in general over the years, but I think I'm the one often having to reach out. And I guess that's ok, but I certainly don't want to unintentionally say or do something that would create a situation in which we are having much less sex or that would make him feel negatively in this area increasing the chances of more problems. But I'm definitely open to suggestions.


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## Tabbygirl23 (7 mo ago)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> Yes, or at least more natural. It's like he's trying to make me orgasm, but I don't need him to try as 5hat usually happens well enough without anything extra. I just want him to be engaged in the act with me and not worried about performance, I guess. It's come to seem like he's doing a chore rather enjoying the moment.





ComplicatedMarriage said:


> I think this is good advice, but I'm a bit at a loss for how and/or when to say it. First, how do I say to someone to stop trying so hard? Doesn't that come across as insulting? And do I do this outside of the bedroom or during sex. If during sex, again, I don't want to hurt his feelings in some way. I'm getting the bare minimum amount of sex that I feel I can tolerate as it is, so I don't want to do anything to decrease it. At the same time, I agree that I probably need to share this with him. I'm just not really sure how. Any advice on how to approach it?


if he doesn’t seem to want to have a big serious discussion about it, you could first get him to think about it by telling him you love just being there with him, that you’re so glad you’re his lady. Then ask if he’s thinking about finishing or if he’s in the moment with you? And smile and be sexy when you ask. Make it low pressure.


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## ComplicatedMarriage (Jun 3, 2021)

*Deidre* said:


> I feel like sex should just naturally happen and so far, that’s the case between my husband and me but when I read stories like yours, I wonder if this happens at some point in all marriages, maybe things get a little “off” as you say. From how you describe your husband, he sounds very open to discussion but I think when you have to discuss it, that can take the fun and spontaneity out of it.


It's possible it does happen in all marriages. But, ours has been a bit complicated from the beginning. We were both virgins when we got married, and I couldn't wait to have sex. While we consummated on our wedding night, most of the honeymoon and in the months and year thereafter, I spent most evenings crying myself to sleep because he just wasn't interested. To this day, I don't know what caused that. All he's told me is that basically he had to get his head straight. The irony is that when he finally did suddenly seem to have a sex drive, I was in lots of pain from the episiotomy after having our first child. She was a difficult baby, and I was exhausted with no emotional or physical space for sex, which eventually turned up some resentment for me and ended up in a very low sex drive. And then all these years later, as I worked really hard to get my sex drive back, somehow his has taken a downturn. It's like we've just never been able to get on the same page, and timing has been off. It's just hard. . .


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Why do couples have a hard time using the words sex, penis, vagina, breasts, I like it when we do this, let's try this, etc?


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> At the same time, I agree that I probably need to share this with him. I'm just not really sure how. Any advice on how to approach it?


I would want my wife to just straight up tell me what she needs to share. For a married couple why not have an open discussion? Are you overthinking this? Holding back just provides opportunity for misunderstandings and turning molehills into mountains. He also needs to hear you want more frequent sex. Holding that in does the marriage no favors. 

OTOH, I think these discussions need to be separated from times of sharing sex together. Like sitting on couch together sharing some wine. Or outdoors on the patio enjoying nature.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> I think this would be a perfectly acceptable solution for me, but he's definitely getting regular sex from me, and I'm already not getting nearly as much sex as I'd like. If he even has the inclination to that, I agree that he better be asking me first because I'm probably up for having sex. Since I've felt so hurt about not getting enough sex in recent years, even in those times when I'm not in the mood, I do NOT turn him down. I try to get into it, and as such, once things get rolling I'm happy to be there. The only time he is ever turned down these days is if I'm on my period. And he's never suggested that we try to do it during that time or I would be willing. I think he'd likely be squeamish about it, though. In fact, the last time that I was on my period and he initiated, I considered still pleasing him in other ways but was just cramping so much that I didn't think it would go well and let him know that I would definitely be up for getting it on in a few days. *Maybe I just need to find a way to broach the subject with him, but I haven't any idea how. *I wish he were more open. We've made a lot of progress in communicating in general over the years, but I think I'm the one often having to reach out. And I guess that's ok, but I certainly don't want to unintentionally say or do something that would create a situation in which we are having much less sex or that would make him feel negatively in this area increasing the chances of more problems. But I'm definitely open to suggestions.


See the bolded copied here:
*Maybe I just need to find a way to broach the subject with him, but I haven't any idea how.*

Stress begins here. Just start. It will get easier.

That's why I've asked here and there the question why is it so hard to just start talking about? You're M for goodness sake. You can't forecast his answers. But if you start the convo it will get easier to talk about as the conversations continue.


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## ComplicatedMarriage (Jun 3, 2021)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Why do couples have a hard time using the words sex, penis, vagina, breasts, I like it when we do this, let's try this, etc?


Good question. I don't have so much trouble these days with that specifically. It's broaching the masturbation topic as during our discussions about frequency last year, he let me know that he wasn't really into having discussions about sex. My struggle is really more with not freaking him out or causing more damage to our sexual relationship by "talking him to death" when he's not ready or whatever to have discussions about sex. I know from experience with non-sexual situations, that sometimes when I "overtalk" about my feelings on a certain subject, it makes it more likely to become a trigger topic where we both end up getting defensive about it. He gets defensive and then that puts me on the defensive. I'm willing and able (at this point in life as I'll admit that I was so shy and scared early in marriage, but at some point, I realized I needed to grow up). I just don't want to do more damage to our sex life. I know communication _should_ be the key to making it better, but he has to be willing to communicate as well. I also have a lot of emotional vulnerability when comes to trying to address these things. I've long felt like some kind of messed-up individual as a wife who generally wants more sex than her husband. I'm working on correcting my own thought processes as I learn that I'm not the only one who may have a higher drive than my husband, but it's tough work to do when things have been so messed up for so long. But I'm trying.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> Good question. I don't have so much trouble these days with that specifically. It's broaching the masturbation topic as during our discussions about frequency last year, he let me know that he wasn't really into having discussions about sex. My struggle is really more with not freaking him out or causing more damage to our sexual relationship by "talking him to death" when he's not ready or whatever to have discussions about sex. I know from experience with non-sexual situations, that sometimes when I "overtalk" about my feelings on a certain subject, it makes it more likely to become a trigger topic where we both end up getting defensive about it. He gets defensive and then that puts me on the defensive. I'm willing and able (at this point in life as I'll admit that I was so shy and scared early in marriage, but at some point, I realized I needed to grow up). I just don't want to do more damage to our sex life. I know communication _should_ be the key to making it better, but he has to be willing to communicate as well. I also have a lot of emotional vulnerability when comes to trying to address these things. I've long felt like some kind of messed-up individual as a wife who generally wants more sex than her husband. I'm working on correcting my own thought processes as I learn that I'm not the only one who may have a higher drive than my husband, but it's tough work to do when things have been so messed up for so long. But I'm trying.


You're fine.
When he says he's uncomfortable talking about just say ok, but you're not, so H just sit there and listen. He'll get less uncomfortable as it becomes routine talk and he sees you're not shaming, condemning, slighting him or thinking less of him.

So don't stop.


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## Quad73 (May 10, 2021)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> I think this is good advice, but I'm a bit at a loss for how and/or when to say it. First, how do I say to someone to stop trying so hard? Doesn't that come across as insulting? And do I do this outside of the bedroom or during sex. If during sex, again, I don't want to hurt his feelings in some way. I'm getting the bare minimum amount of sex that I feel I can tolerate as it is, so I don't want to do anything to decrease it. At the same time, I agree that I probably need to share this with him. I'm just not really sure how. Any advice on how to approach it?


Talk about it outside the bedroom, definitely. If you talk about concerns that could be taken as criticism IN the bedroom, it can 'contaminate' your bedroom/safe space.

'Stop trying so hard' is definitely not how you want to say it. Refer to the post I commented on, where you said it very well. 

You can try to communicate with love and thoughtfulness re HIS experience. 

Sexual ease is a HUGE feedback loop. A bit of awkwardness by one partner feeds the other's and presto you're in a very awkward space.

So, given that, talk to him about caring for HIS experience. "I want you to be more at ease honey, I have orgasms with you weather you try or not, you just make me that excited every time." or something along those lines. See the difference? 

Messages in a private chat app like Signal can be a game changer for couples who have trouble 'having a talk'. 

Or watch a sexy movie and slide the conversation in when it feels like an opportune moment. 

Or take a walk - somewhere you aren't staring at each other. This is a big one for men reluctant to communicate; eye to eye is like prison interrogation lol. 

There are a ton of ways to overcome this. You need to start being creative and think outside of your current constraints of "having the talk".


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## ComplicatedMarriage (Jun 3, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> I would want my wife to just straight up tell me what she needs to share. For a married couple why not have an open discussion? Are you overthinking this? Holding back just provides opportunity for misunderstandings and turning molehills into mountains. He also needs to hear you want more frequent sex. Holding that in does the marriage no favors.


I would very much like an open discussion, and he definitely knows about the frequency because I talked to him about it on multiple occasions. Unfortunately, despite several talks the frequency is at least "back to normal" (it had taken a dip when I had those talks) but otherwise, there were only brief changes after we talked that didn't last long.

Yes, I'm possibly overthinking it. But, he was the one who said he was uncomfortable with talking about these things (although, he would like that I share fantasies and such with him, but apparently doesn't want heavy discussions). When I did talk with him, it left things super awkward and even more frustrating for a while. So hopefully it makes some sense as to why I'm a little hesitant. I definitely would prefer open lines of communication, but I don't want to do more damage. I can see that there may be nothing else left but to bring this up, but it may take time for me to find the right moment to ease him into the conversation and keep it as low pressure as possible.


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## ComplicatedMarriage (Jun 3, 2021)

Quad73 said:


> There are a ton of ways to overcome this. You need to start being creative and think outside of your current constraints of "having the talk".


Excellent advice. Sometimes talking it out here helps me prepare for what and how I might talk to him in the kindest and most respectful way possible. It's super hard to keep my emotions in check to have a conversation like that mostly because this has been such a hard road, and it has taken a heavy toll on me emotionally. I know showing him those emotions can be helpful at times, but it can also be a turn-off for him. In any case, I'm going to try to find a way to elicit more conversation with him when I can find good opportunities to do so.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> Unfortunately, despite several talks the frequency is at least "back to normal" (it had taken a dip when I had those talks) but otherwise, there were only brief changes after we talked that didn't last long.


I surely sounds like somehow the two of you are "stuck". Your previous attempts talking about this haven't had the desired effect, and in fact you are more reluctant to discuss what is bothering you. That is a recipe for disaster IMO. Are facilitated counseling sessions with a counselor specializing in sexual relations a possibility? I mean if the two of you can't work this out between the two of you, don't you need to approach it from a different angle?

From what you have written, I just get this impression that your husband is having some sort of difficulty dealing with your sexuality. Maybe your wanting more is scaring hell out of him cuz he thinks he is doing as well as he is capable of. When he is with you he is on pins and needles, maybe he figures "if I give her a bunch of orgasms ASAP maybe she will be satisfied". Somehow he has gotten wound around the axle and developed some phobia about being intimate with you. Masturbation takes no attention to anyone or thing but himself. So compared to being intimate with a live woman, it is no stress, no effort. When he is with you he thinks he better perform and well or he is going to have to repeat the effort real soon. I know that sounds nuts, but what other explanation would there be? 

I hope this isn't the case, but maybe he is the male version of a female poster on here who would rather masturbate alone than have sex with her husband because he just doesn't arouse her. She can climax in 15 minutes alone, but often can't at all by her husband.

Maybe he has just gotten lazy as he aged.


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## ComplicatedMarriage (Jun 3, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> I hope this isn't the case, but maybe he is the male version of a female poster on here who would rather masturbate alone than have sex with her husband because he just doesn't arouse her. She can climax in 15 minutes alone, but often can't at all by her husband.


Thankfully, I don't think this is the case. I think it may possibly have caused the issues right after getting married, but I don't believe it would be now. He does initiate and he shows interest in me physically, frequently grabbing my butt and the like around the house. The frequency of affection is daily throughout time we spend together, so I hope that's a good sign. I do think work stress for him and issues with undiagnosed OCD have likely played a big part in the frequency. On vacation, he's usually much more likely to be really interested in sex both because of the reduction if stress, and it's easier to "have things in order."

I'm more worried that masturbation is potentially the cause of the other changes to our sex life. When I realized certain things were or weren't happening, I went online to try to figure out possibilities in order to think of ways they might be addressed, and one thing that stood out to me is how the "death grip" can cause issues for some guys. If there were any way to address this without a potentially damaging conversation, that would be the preference. But alas, it seems unlikely I can even confirm this is an issue unless I talk to him and risk whatever that might cause. But you might be on to something that my drive is also making him feel nervous somehow. Hard to know without talking, I suppose.

In any case, you're right that something must change. Early in marriage, I wanted to see a counselor, and he was not a fan at the time (I think his ego felt bruised that as a "man" he should be fine). But if it comes to needing to press for that, then so be it. For now, it sounds like my first step is to attempt to find a non-threatening time and way to bring up the possible masturbation and/or that I'm great with him relaxing. If that doesn't help, then I may need to convince him a counselor and/or sex therapist is important. Thank you for taking the time to provide your thoughts. I'm still hopeful we can work this out so that we are both happy with the solution.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> I'm more worried that masturbation is potentially the cause of the other changes to our sex life. When I realized certain things were or weren't happening,


I missed what “changes”, and what things “were or weren’t happening”. Is your husband having some actual physical issues? I have the impression he isnt “finishing” with you and is finishing off himself. Some men as they age can have the opposite of premature ejaculation.


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## ComplicatedMarriage (Jun 3, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> I missed what “changes”, and what things “were or weren’t happening”.


I wasn't very clear. I meant the changes in position that seem to be needed for him to climax, the seemingly hurried rate to get me to climax that never seemed to be a thing before (not sure where that fits in), and the potential of him finishing himself off after we are together (not entirely sure that is happening, but it seems a possibility).


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> I wasn't very clear. I meant the changes in position that seem to be needed for him to climax, the seemingly hurried rate to get me to climax that never seemed to be a thing before (not sure where that fits in), and the potential of him finishing himself off after we are together (not entirely sure that is happening, but it seems a possibility).


I believe you said his preferred position now is rear entry. So here is just a guess. He is having trouble keeping an erection. The rear entry for a lot of men is the most arousing of any. In fact that position makes a lot of men have trouble lasting. He is rushing to finish before he loses his erection.


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## ComplicatedMarriage (Jun 3, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> I believe you said his preferred position now is rear entry. So here is just a guess. He is having trouble keeping an erection. The rear entry for a lot of men is the most arousing of any. In fact that position makes a lot of men have trouble lasting. He is rushing to finish before he loses his erection.


OK, I wrongly assumed, then, (or perhaps I'm confused?) that rear entry preference likely because he needed MORE friction/tightness or whatever that would do to finish. What led me to that conclusion is that alternately (and again, I apologize for being graphic, but have no more delicate way to explain it) if we're in missionary, we usually finish with him squeezing my legs tightly around his penis. He doesn't finish inside (best I can tell) unless both can be achieved simultaneously. But if what you're saying is the case, I rather incorrectly thought that he was having trouble finishing things off. 

I'm not sure what to do with that information, though, if that's the case. I want things to be really good for him, too, without any type of performance anxiety. Maybe me encouraging him that I'm happy with things (when I am, of course) could be helpful? Maybe I need to verbally (with words) express more often how great things are? I'm just at a loss with how to address this. Again, I know a conversation would be best, and I'm hoping to bring it up at an opportune time. Just trying to understand what's going on and how to talk to him in a way that will be as comfortable as possible for him so that we don't create issues of him getting in his head more (if that's the case) leading to further problems of ED/PE, if that's indeed what's going on.

Thank you for enlightening me about that being a possibility. I clearly had assumed the opposite.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

He IS having trouble finishing. he DOES need maximum stimulatuion. Which rear ebtry provides. And he has to hurry before he goes limp. 

I dont know how you deal with this but gecus having trouble staying up for the task. He needs some help but not sure how you givr it to him. He is under pressure in his head


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## ComplicatedMarriage (Jun 3, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> He IS having trouble finishing. he DOES need maximum stimulatuion. Which rear ebtry provides. And he has to hurry before he goes limp.


Ok, thank you so much for clarifying and helping me at least kind of figure out what's going on. I really appreciate it!!! Now what's left is for me to try and figure out what I can do to help. Any insight as to whether a "death grip" masturbation might be causing this. Or an I chasing the wrong problem/solution? Just likely something psychological he's dealing with instead? Knowing the possibilities helps me try to figure out what I can do or maybe suggest should we find a way to talk about it. Thank you again for being willing to talk this through!


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## ComplicatedMarriage (Jun 3, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> He IS having trouble finishing.





Rus47 said:


> And he has to hurry before he goes limp.


One other question if someone feels comfortable answering. I guess I don't understand the process of male arousal as well as I should. I wouldn't have thought these two scenarios make sense together. He can't stay erect but he can't finish. That's confusing to me, but I guess they're separate processes? Or one is dependent on the other? Is anyone able to explain?


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> Any insight as to whether a "death grip" masturbation might be causing this.


 Personally, 99.99% of our activity is with one another and neither has had time or energy or interest over our dating and marriage for solo stuff unless we were away from one another like when I used to go on business trips. We would do the phone sex thing then to avoid going nuts. 

I honestly have no personal experience with this "death grip" thing, no insight, though have read about it. So suppose it is possible he managed to desensitize himself so he needs extraordinary rough stimulation to stay aroused and ultimately orgasm. You said he isn't ejaculating with you, which seems really unusual and if he was ought to be obvious ?

Anyway, there is definitely something wrong here and I am betting a big part of it is psychological. Our biggest sex organ is the brain. Since the two of you don't seem able to discuss this stuff with one another without him getting traumatized, maybe it would be more efficient to just get together with a counselor who has expertise in sexual dynamics/issues. Again, no experience with any of that, but a lot of the people on TAM seem to think they can help these problems.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> One other question if someone feels comfortable answering. I guess I don't understand the process of male arousal as well as I should. I wouldn't have thought these two scenarios make sense together. He can't stay erect but he can't finish. That's confusing to me, but I guess they're separate processes? Or one is dependent on the other? Is anyone able to explain?


Well I have personal experience here. When I was having some issues with ED, which ultimately was due to low T, I would get an erection, but as we proceeded with PIV it was like the stimulation wasn't sufficient to maintain it. Air was coming out of the tire, I had a *few* minutes before the tire went totally flat. Hurry up and get her off and me too. Except most times the buzzer sounded before could make the final basket to win the game That is, most times the "me too" didn't happen. 

The big difference is wife and I have no issues talking things over.


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## ComplicatedMarriage (Jun 3, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> Well I have personal experience here. When I was having some issues with ED, which ultimately was due to low T, I would get an erection, but as we proceeded with PIV it was like the stimulation wasn't sufficient to maintain it. Air was coming out of the tire, I had a *few* minutes before the tire went totally flat. Hurry up and get her off and me too. Except most times the buzzer sounded before could make the final basket to win the game That is, most times the "me too" didn't happen.
> 
> The big difference is wife and I have no issues talking things over.


Thank you for all your insight. Very helpful!! Probably need to check for low T, too. But that will require a conversation, as well, as I can't imagine he'll ask the doc on his own. I'll work at finding ways to gently start a discussion. Thank you again for your help!!


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