# Do you regret exposing the affair?



## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

I'm curious. It seems like a no brainer to me to expose an affair to put pressure on the APs, but in thread after thread I see people resisting. I also see people making statements that people who expose don't regret it but people who don't or wait do. So vote in the poll and comments on either side are welcome.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

And I'd do it again. But in all honesty- he exposed himself as well- to his family. But I did it with my family and would have at his job had he continued to push me. Thankfully he did not.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> And I'd do it again. But in all honesty- he exposed himself as well- to his family. But I did it with my family and would have at his job had he continued to push me. Thankfully he did not.


I exposed both his and mine to my family. He never once required that I tell my family the truth. I did it of my own volition. I don't regret it in the least.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I never exposed the affair. And I am glad I didn't.

However, I feel that exposure and the use of Cheaterville.com are worthwhile weapons in the anti-infidelity armoury.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

I can't really expose per orders from my legal counsel; but after the gavel finally falls on the D, then I will be fastidiously exposing STBXW's independent evidence to her family and friends!


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## MrMathias (Nov 19, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> I never exposed the affair. And I am glad I didn't.
> 
> However, I feel that exposure and the use of Cheaterville.com are worthwhile weapons in the anti-infidelity armoury.


After reading your response I wondered how you voted, then realized you probably couldn't 

Seems like there should have been another option: 

"I didn't expose, and don't regret it."

I for one wish I'd made MrsM call her parents the second I found out about the A, instead of trying to protect her and keeping it quiet. Could have avoided the FalseR. 

Seriously, If I had a time machine I'm not sure I'd go back past Dday1, but boy oh boy would I have handled that night a LOT differently. EXPOSE!!!


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## jay_gatsby (Jun 4, 2013)

arbitrator said:


> I can't really expose per orders from my legal counsel; but after the gavel finally falls on the D, then I will be fastidiously exposing STBXW's independent evidence to her family and friends!


And what would that do for you? To get back at your xW? the OM? Isn't the D enough? I can tell you after a D, the bitterness is more than enough to go around.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

MrMathias said:


> After reading your response I wondered how you voted, then realized you probably couldn't
> 
> Seems like there should have been another option:
> 
> ...


Anyone know how to edit the poll so I can add this?


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Wold not have helped my cause at all. My ex-wife's family were trash with goat morals, they could have cared less. My father was dead and my mother and I were estranged at the time. None of my siblings lived here in America so they cold not have provided any support if they wanted to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Robsia (Mar 11, 2013)

When I found out, his affairs were over, although he was still meeting up with women from dating sites up till D-day 1. He said he was thinking of stopping anyway when I found out. Not because he felt bad about it but...because he was getting bored :scratchhead::wtf:

I told my family and my best friend, for my own support.

He hasn't told his family, although I want him to.

His family pretty much hate me so I want some credit for attempting to try again, sort of "Look, if I can get over what WH has done and try again with him, can't you get over what you think I did?"


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## Overthemoon88 (Jan 10, 2013)

I exposed to his family, except my FIL, and to my family, except my mum. Both old folks in the dark due to health concerns. Did it bring my STBXH out of his fog ? No.

But then we are talking about an unsalvagable cheater who was willing to take a polygraph, happily handwritten a NC letter to his OW, divulged his bank account and email passwords, signed over properties to my sole name post DDay1 ... And stealthily carried on with the affair underground.

Did I regret exposing ? NO.

I realised I married an unrepentant LIAR ... Someone with no moral compass at all. And in hindsight, he would have rewritten our marital history and spun his version to all and sundry.

As it is, it's almost 4 months since he last spoke to anyone in his family. They are all furious. I know he flew into UK on business today and alerted his sister the possibility he may drop in unannounced. Bearing in mind he had received the letter from my lawyers early this week. His sister said she now wants to tell my FIL "everything that has happened" before his son gets to him first. We'll see .....

I eventually told my mum after I realised that R is no more. Thankfully, she took it very well despite my fear that it will set off her depression and panic attacks again.

All-in-all, exposing means our loved ones are clued in to the severity of the breakdown of our M and both sides rallied around my son. Which is what that matters most now. My son .....


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

First time I exposed it in 2011 they went further underground. The second time (a few months ago) the XOM's pastor and the OMW did not believe me. Because in my emotional state I gave them the wrong date and the XOM was able to prove he was not with my wife. When my wife came clean, I called the XOM's pastor and he did not believe me again, so my wife talked with the XOM's pastor. Then I contacted the XOMW, she told me my wife is lying and to leave her alone. I then threatened the XOM, the pastor and the XOM's employer and told him unless he tells his wife that day it will be ugly for him, the business he works at and the church he attends. I also told all three that he better do it and contact me that he did before 7 P.M. As I was getting in my truck to drive over an hour to his home my phone rang and it was the XOM. I do believe that the second exposure worked and I have no regrets.

I have almost 4 million hits on the XOM's cheaterville page but honestly it did nothing.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

I just exposed to BW. Was enough to make MOM vanish in the smoke.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Thorburn said:


> I have almost 4 million hits on the XOM's cheaterville page but honestly it did nothing.


 It did nothing that you know of. The beauty of cheaterville is that it is the gift that keeps on giving for the future to come. It could inform future employer's, dating prospects, and spouses of the nefarious character that this person exudes. It is a gamble, as you may never know the extent that it reaches and changes, but it is a gamble that you won't lose as long as the post is true (as that protects you against lawsuit). With the internet becoming so entwined in everything these days, it is definite to make some impact in some way down the road.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

MrMathias said:


> After reading your response I wondered how you voted, then realized you probably couldn't
> 
> Seems like there should have been another option:
> 
> ...


That would have been a useful option for me!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

I didn't expose and don't regret it.

I cut her off on Dday, and started acting like I wouldn't piss on her if she was on fire. She dropped OM like a hot potato and never looked back. OM is 1000 miles away, and knows not to set foot in TX. After I agreed to R there was no need to expose.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Ovid said:


> I didn't expose and don't regret it.
> 
> I cut her off on Dday, and started acting like I wouldn't piss on her if she was on fire. She dropped OM like a hot potato and never looked back. OM is 1000 miles away, and knows not to set foot in TX. After I agreed to R there was no need to expose.


Excellent way to handle it. Do you still have all your self esteem intact? I only ask this question because I've read several posts where people insist you cannot have self esteem if you don't expose the affair.


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

I didn't expose and don't regret it. 

Both OM were single, and the affairs were ended months before DDay. Exposing wouldn't have affected either of their lives. They both are openly players and it would have just fed their egos to be able to gloat. My wife deleted all contact info and blocked them from her social media, along with a few of their friends just to be safe that they couldn't make contact through an intermediary. 

I decided to R, I've kept knowledge of what happened to a small circle. Only a dozen or so close friends and family know the truth. I'm glad I've done that. It's hard enough to deal with the ups and downs, and extended friends and family commenting on it or offering advice or pity would not help. Sure, it would have helped to 'punish her' to have more people sniping, but I'm sure she would get a fair share of support too. 

I see exposing a useful tool if the affair is ongoing, or if you plan to D. But for R, it's got downsides that need to be weighted carefully. Limited exposure can be helpful to a point. Having people to confide in is good. People to help hold the WS accountable are good too. A peanut gallery to snipe and punish, not helpful.


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

I wish I exposed right away. I waited and it cost me. The reasons I had at the time for not exposing was. I do not want my kids to disrespect their Mom. (that was lame). If we R I still wanted my wife to be OK in our extended family structure. (that was also lame) The real reason looking back was was about my self esteem. 

Once I exposed and stop being the beta idiot I was things turned around quickly but not quietly


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## jay_gatsby (Jun 4, 2013)

Acoa said:


> I didn't expose and don't regret it.
> 
> Both OM were single, and the affairs were ended months before DDay. Exposing wouldn't have affected either of their lives. They both are openly players and it would have just fed their egos to be able to gloat. My wife deleted all contact info and blocked them from her social media, along with a few of their friends just to be safe that they couldn't make contact through an intermediary.
> 
> ...


Thanks for illustrating what I couldn't verbalize. That is a very well written post. Not every A needs to be blown out of the water to make the BS feel retribution has been done. Sometimes, it is best handled internally between the parties involved.


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## cj9947 (Jul 9, 2011)

I am 100000000000000% glad I exposed the affair. Evil lurks in darkness...


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## MrMathias (Nov 19, 2012)

lenzi said:


> Do you still have all your self esteem intact? I only ask this question because I've read several posts where people insist you cannot have self esteem if you don't expose the affair.


I'm not sure that exposure and self esteem are necessarily related. 

I suppose if your self-esteem is truly derived from 'yourself' then exposure, or not, is probably irrelevant to your esteem. I personally don't feel like my *self* esteem was affected by who knows about the A- its about the same as where it was when no-one knew about it. I admit to being bothered by some of the rumors that developed, mostly because I prefer to deal with facts and some people were pretty misinformed. 

I just kept telling myself that my WSs betrayal says more about her and her friends than it does about me. 

If a person is ashamed of their spouse and their actions, and is worried what other people think, if they're humiliated and worry what other people think all the time, wide exposure might actually hurt the betrayed worse. 

'Selective exposure' I guess. For a while there I thought wide exposure to everyone and anything was always the answer, but its probably best to tell the people that really need to know- people that have a vested interest in helping the marriage recover or help the betrayed through support, or people that could are impacted by the hypocrisy of the affair partners. 

I think if the affair partner is attached, there's almost no circumstance in which the APs spouse shouldn't be told. Maybe if they're terminally ill and have a day left or something


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## darklilly23 (May 26, 2013)

I wish I would have exposed EA ,H and OW to OWH before
They got a divorce. And OWH still gave a flying...
I was fed a whole bunch of [email protected] about how it was not my 
place and it might ruin their marriage and it was all the OW fault
for not telling her H. 

After all they were "Just old friends"

Ah youth, I will rember you foundly but not repeat you!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Robsia said:


> When I found out, his affairs were over, although he was still meeting up with women from dating sites up till D-day 1. He said he was thinking of stopping anyway when I found out. Not because he felt bad about it but...because he was getting bored :scratchhead::wtf:
> 
> I told my family and my best friend, for my own support.
> 
> ...


He hasn't told his family about the A, but I bet he told them all sorts of choice stuff about you if they 'hate' you. I know my wife confessed to feeding her family full of hate for me.. telling them how I was too this or too that.. much of it exaggerated or total BS. 

I never realized why she would ask me "were you telling your mother x or y?" and I would say "I'd never say anything negative about you to anyone.. never-mind my mother!" I bet she didn't believe me, because she probably figured since she was badmouthing me to her family, I was doing the same to her. A's make people do dastardly things, even demonize you to family.

I bet his family doesn't even know who you really are.

As for exposing.. It's difficult to not expose when you kick them out of the house and they have to move back in with Mom.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

MrMathias said:


> I think if the affair partner is attached, there's almost no circumstance in which the APs spouse shouldn't be told. Maybe if they're terminally ill and have a day left or something


:iagree: This!


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

MrMathias said:


> 'Selective exposure' I guess. For a while there I thought wide exposure to everyone and anything was always the answer, but its probably best to tell the people that really need to know- people that have a vested interest in helping the marriage recover or help the betrayed through support, or people that could are impacted by the hypocrisy of the affair partners.


I agree, although I would restrict it even more. No one really needs to know other than the BS. Sometimes I am shocked how people on TAM think you should expose to the entire family and friends, and even children. The reasons range anywhere from revenge to shaming them so they won't do it again. One person on TAM justified it by saying if you expose it to the family, friends and neighbors, then they can alert you if they see your WS doing anything suspicious in the future. But I feel like if trust is that far gone, then the marriage is over, and revenge won't save it, and neither will enlisting your family to be the affair police.




> I think if the affair partner is attached, there's almost no circumstance in which the APs spouse shouldn't be told.


Agree completely.


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

lenzi said:


> Excellent way to handle it. Do you still have all your self esteem intact? I only ask this question because I've read several posts where people insist you cannot have self esteem if you don't expose the affair.


Self esteem is fully in tact. I think it has more to do with the fact I wasn't just going to take it. I don't see how exposure would make me feel better about myself. 

I still have doubts about the M, but that has nothing to do with exposure, and everything to do with the fact she pulled that crap in the first place.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

jay_gatsby said:


> And what would that do for you? To get back at your xW? the OM? Isn't the D enough? I can tell you after a D, the bitterness is more than enough to go around.


Jay: I'm doing it only to fortrightly dispel STBXW's standing version of what I'm sure is her most "heart-wrenching" story, which, without doubt, that she's probably already placed in the waiting ears of some of her more gullible family members and friends. I'm only wanting this evidence to richly demonstrate exactly what an accomplished liar and a cheater that she truly is!

In essence, just enough to bring her credibility down a notch, or two, or ten!


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## jay_gatsby (Jun 4, 2013)

Theseus said:


> I agree, although I would restrict it even more. No one really needs to know other than the BS. Sometimes I am shocked how people on TAM think you should expose to the entire family and friends, and even children. The reasons range anywhere from revenge to shaming them so they won't do it again. One person on TAM justified it by saying if you expose it to the family, friends and neighbors, then they can alert you if they see your WS doing anything suspicious in the future. But I feel like if trust is that far gone, then the marriage is over, and revenge won't save it, and neither will enlisting your family to be the affair police.


:iagree: Well stated. There are too many here bent on revenge.


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## jay_gatsby (Jun 4, 2013)

arbitrator said:


> Jay: I'm doing it to only fortrightly dispel STBXW's standing version of her most "heart-wrenching" story, which I'm sure that she's already placed in the waiting ears of her family and friends. I'm only wanting this evidence to richly show exactly what a liar and a cheater that she truly is!
> 
> In essence, just enough to bring her credibility down a notch, or two, or ten!


Do you think that will make her a different person? Is your goal to try to change her or to make yourself feel better?


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

*Re: Re: Do you regret exposing the affair?*



jay_gatsby said:


> Do you think that will make her a different person? Is your goal to try to change her or to make yourself feel better?


I have a few questions for you. Should people in a civilized society own up to their failures, mistakes and poor choices? Is shaming a useful tool for controlling aberrant behavior. Should people be punished if they transgress acceptable boundaries?


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

*Re: Re: Do you regret exposing the affair?*



jay_gatsby said:


> :iagree: Well stated. There are too many here bent on revenge.


Is it revenge to force people to tell the truth and accept the consequences of their destructive choices?


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

I never exposed, I didn't have to. My wife outed herself to everybody she knew, brought up charges against the OM, and even faced the music at church, asking my forgiveness, in front of the congregation. I wasn't there, fortunately. I was too angry and it wouldn't have been pretty.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

jay_gatsby said:


> Thanks for illustrating what I couldn't verbalize. That is a very well written post. Not every A needs to be blown out of the water to make the BS feel retribution has been done. Sometimes, it is best handled internally between the parties involved.


I think you will find that this isn't true at all and is counter-productive. Pretty much every website devoted to repairing marriage after an affair, will advise exposure, and some sort of reparations for the BS. Also, most counselors agree with this as well. The WS MUST experience the consequences of his/her actions for any meaningful behavioral change.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

jay_gatsby said:


> :iagree: Well stated. There are too many here bent on revenge.


I think you will find that exposure has very little to do with revenge, at all. It is mostly used as a method of ending the affair, affecting behavioral change in the WS, re-establishing trust, and elevating the self-esteem of the BS. All of which must happen for any meaningful reconciliation to occur.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

jay_gatsby said:


> Do you think that will make her a different person? Is your goal to try to change her or to make yourself feel better?


Both!


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Rookie4 said:


> I think you will find that exposure has very little to do with revenge, at all. It is mostly used as a method of ending the affair, affecting behavioral change in the WS, re-establishing trust, and elevating the self-esteem of the BS. All of which must happen for any meaningful reconciliation to occur.


To me hiding it is just more deception.. you are now helping them cover it up, something they've been working hard at, and now you're right there with them pretending and deceiving people... It's a first step in being honest with yourself, being honest with others.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I always find it odd how people say that telling the truth is a vengeful action and therefore should not be done.

Or to put it another way - they are suggesting you refuse to tell the truth which does nothing but help hide the affair.

Now why would you of that ? Would you hide the robber who broke into your house ? Would you not report your car stolen if it was taken?

Why is telling the truth, regardless of your emotional feelings, wrong, ever?


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> I always find it odd how people say that telling the truth is a vengeful action and therefore should not be done.
> 
> Or to put it another way - they are suggesting you refuse to tell the truth which does nothing but help hide the affair.
> 
> ...


You're comparing infidelity to a crime to support your opinion. 

Affairs are not against the law, at least in most jurisdictions.

Also you make the statement that "telling the truth" is considered a vengeful action by some people, and I don't see anyone, including myself saying that at all.

What I maintain is that doing things like posting the OM on cheaterville, trying to get him to lose his job, trying to break up his family- those are all actions of revenge- to make the affair partner and soon to be exspouse as miserable as possible because they inflicted pain on you. It's not a matter of simply letting the world know the facts, there's much more to it than that, including but not limited to the ramifications of job loss by a spouse during a divorce and the effect on support payments, as well as the effect the decreased income may have on minor children.

I get that a betrayed spouse who is desperate to get back their cheating partner will do just about anything- and if the chances of getting them back are increased by exposing and breaking up the affair, and they're willing to accept the possible financial consequences if they do divorce, well then go for it.


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

Exposure is like a hammer. It's a useful tool, but sometimes you just need to tighten a screw.


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## wiigirl (Jun 14, 2012)

Ovid said:


> Exposure is like a hammer. It's a useful tool, but sometimes you just need to tighten a screw.


I agree in theory....but there is no way to expose an affair gracefully.

I think the key is not to let your anger and hurt get the best of you.









_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

lenzi said:


> You're comparing infidelity to a crime to support your opinion.
> 
> Affairs are not against the law, at least in most jurisdictions.
> 
> ...


So then anything not explicitly against the law is ok for people to do in a civilized society? Hmmm

So let me pose this hypothetical question to you. Your 22 year old daughter brings home a man and introduces him as her new fiancé. You happen to know that this guy is a womanizer and a player but your daughter has no idea. Do you tell her? Do you expose him?


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

bfree said:


> So then anything not explicitly against the law is ok for people to do in a civilized society? Hmmm
> 
> So let me pose this hypothetical question to you. Your 22 year old daughter brings home a man and introduces him as her new fiancé. You happen to know that this guy is a womanizer and a player but your daughter has no idea. Do you tell her? Do you expose him?


I'd kick his A$$.

I love my daughter, I will do whatever is necessary to protect my daughter to the best of my abilities. I would tell her, I would expose him, I would ruin him if necessary to keep him away from my daughter. 

The OM's wife is a complete stranger. I owe her nothing. If I can help her out without causing myself any grief then I might choose to do so but I do not consider it an obligation.


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

wiigirl said:


> I agree in theory....but there is no way to expose an affair gracefully.
> 
> I think the key is not to let your anger and hurt get the best of you.
> 
> ...


Which is why it's a hammer 

I think you missed something in my post... My point was exposeure is a useful tool, but it's not always the right tool.


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

being on the sad and incredibly painful receiving end of the infedility in my marriage, I IMMEDIATELY exposed it to the OM's wife.

the problem i see with exposing it to the world is that it does make R more difficult. Sure i could have marched up to her parents and humilated her and went for the throat. or to my family memebers, and friends.

while some do know, i can see how that has affected things that also affect me. mutual friends are now subtly forced to choose a side. it would have been better if they never knew, if R is a consideration.

bottom line? i think many BS are so hurt they just want the WS to feel the same pain and humilitaion the BS feels, and being in a very low point at the time it probably makes sense and while not right, it just goes with the territory.

if revenge is a motivation, and im sure it is in way too many cases, than what the BS is doing isnt all that different. two wrongs, even though one is of a "lessor degree" dont make a right.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

I think there's a lot of reasons to expose affairs but on *rare* occasion there's very little to gain.

Many years ago I didn't expose my ex. I didn't want the affair to end and I didn't want her back. Even so I was planning to at least let OM's wife know because I would have liked the same in return but I didn't have to because she called me within a few days of me finding out. It was annoying enough to go through the divorce while my ex had her replacement lined up. Had I blown the affair wide open, gotten him fired, etc, it would have been worse for me because she may have been trying harder to get back together with me.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Cheating is breaking a social, emotional, a legal contract you have with your spouse.

It causes you damages both emotional, socially, and financially.

The AP is a party to the breaking of the contact, as is the affair itself.

Directly taking action to end the affair, to remove the AP from the picture, and make the affair difficult or costly to continue is an essential part of addressing the breaking of the marital contract.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> Cheating is breaking a social, emotional, a legal contract you have with your spouse.
> 
> It causes you damages both emotional, socially, and financially.
> 
> The AP is a party to the breaking of the contact, as is the affair itself.


All true. No argument there. 



Shaggy said:


> Directly taking action to end the affair, to remove the AP from the picture, and make the affair difficult or costly to continue is an essential part of addressing the breaking of the marital contract.


No it isn't. The only action essential to addressing the breaking of the marital contract is divorce.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

*Re: Re: Do you regret exposing the affair?*



lenzi said:


> I'd kick his A$$.
> 
> I love my daughter, I will do whatever is necessary to protect my daughter to the best of my abilities. I would tell her, I would expose him, I would ruin him if necessary to keep him away from my daughter.
> 
> The OM's wife is a complete stranger. I owe her nothing. If I can help her out without causing myself any grief then I might choose to do so but I do not consider it an obligation.


What if it was friends daughter? Would you expose? What if your friend knew but didn't inform you or your daughter? Would you be upset? See here's the problem. When we as civilized people only act in our own self interests it's difficult to know where to draw the line. How many degrees of separation before you think the player isn't worth exposing? If we all keep in mind what is best not just for ourselves but for society in general and hold to those standards don't we all benefit? By exposing cheaters we reinforce that infidelity is not a behavior that is going to be tolerated and those that practice that behavior will be held accountable. Maybe we can reduce the overall selfishness of our society and improve the quality of life for all.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

bfree said:


> How many degrees of separation before you think the player isn't worth exposing?


I guess I'd have to make that call when it happened. If I knew the person, if it was a friend or coworker, I'd probably step in. someone I never met, probably not. Unless it involved no personal risk to myself. This conversation is really about morality. I think of two recent examples in the news. Some guy jumped into a creek to save a drowning child. She lived, he is paralyzed from the neck down. A scuba diver tried to rescue a fool who got lost in a wreck. He was down so long he got "the bends" and was paralyzed but the guy he saved was only slightly injured. You see people risking death from explosion pulling people out of burning cars. I would never, ever take that sort of risk for a stranger. My life is worth infinitely more than theirs. But I once saw a car accident, there was no fire, I helped the guy out of the car and applied a towel to his bleeding head and gave him some comfort.

For my child, I'd give my life. For a friend, I'd take some risk.. and so on. Yes there's some grey- but you get the idea. You might risk your life for the stranger in the burning car and hey that's totally up to you. Doesn't make you a better person than the one who would call 911 from a safe distance.



bfree said:


> If we all keep in mind what is best not just for ourselves but for society in general and hold to those standards don't we all benefit? By exposing cheaters we reinforce that infidelity is not a behavior that is going to be tolerated and those that practice that behavior will be held accountable. Maybe we can reduce the overall selfishness of our society and improve the quality of life for all.


bfree for president!

The world would be a better place, no doubt.


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## Julien (Mar 25, 2013)

lenzi said:


> You're comparing infidelity to a crime to support your opinion.
> 
> Affairs are not against the law, at least in most jurisdictions.
> 
> ...


It's not about what is against the law, it is about what is right and what is wrong.
Illegal parking is against the law. Can it be qualified as "wrong"? I don't think so.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

lenzi said:


> You're comparing infidelity to a crime to support your opinion.
> 
> Affairs are not against the law, at least in most jurisdictions.
> 
> ...


Lenzi, Every person has the right to defend his family and marriage, right? If by exposing, you can regain your marriage wouldn't you do it? Also doesn't the AP's SO deserve to know that his or her partner is a cheater? (assuming, of course that the AP is in a relationship) If the BS has no intention of reconciling, then the reasons for exposure are less. But I'm assuming that the OP wants an answer, in respect of a reconciliation.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Ovid said:


> Which is why it's a hammer
> 
> I think you missed something in my post... My point was exposeure is a useful tool, but it's not always the right tool.


I disagree, Ovid, It's always the right tool, but it can be applied with various degrees of force.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

x598 said:


> being on the sad and incredibly painful receiving end of the infedility in my marriage, I IMMEDIATELY exposed it to the OM's wife.
> 
> the problem i see with exposing it to the world is that it does make R more difficult. Sure i could have marched up to her parents and humilated her and went for the throat. or to my family memebers, and friends.
> 
> ...


This is incredibly foolish. Why do you believe that the WS should NOT have to face the results of their cheating? Why do you feel that the WS should be protected?


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Rookie4 said:


> Lenzi, Every person has the right to defend his family and marriage, right?


Right.



Rookie4 said:


> If by exposing, you can regain your marriage wouldn't you do it?


I have not been in this situation and I expect that if I was married again and I faced infidelity I would leave her not try to reconcile but for those who will do anything to try to reconcile I understand that exposing can be a useful tool- but if it costs the cheater their job it may cost the betrayed spouse in higher support payments so there's a risk/benefit ratio that may be considered.



Rookie4 said:


> Also doesn't the AP's SO deserve to know that his or her partner is a cheater?


We're back to morality, and responsibility and whether we choose to help our fellow planetary inhabitants. There are children starving in 3rd world countries and homeless people on the streets of our cities. Are you donating money to these countries? Would you provide a spare room to a homeless person? Say a "normal" person who lost their home in a natural disaster? Why not, they "deserve" to live like you do and if you have extra money why spend it on fine dining when you can put food in a starving child's mouth? 



Rookie4 said:


> (assuming, of course that the AP is in a relationship) If the BS has no intention of reconciling, then the reasons for exposure are less. But I'm assuming that the OP wants an answer, in respect of a reconciliation.


Why would you assume the op wants an answer in respect of a reconciliation?



x598 said:


> if revenge is a motivation, and im sure it is in way too many cases, than what the BS is doing isnt all that different. two wrongs, even though one is of a "lessor degree" dont make a right.


"I agree with this as well and posted as much. You made my life miserable so I will do the same to you! It's the only way I can keep my self respect! "


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

If I want my WS to be honest with herself, and with me, and with everyone.. I want her to stop lying, to be true, to tell truths and stop deception. I don't see how helping her continue the deception is a step in the right direction. You are basically saying it's okay to tell half-truths as long as they are lies you're okay with. You are letting her keep up the phoney act to family to 'save face', but at the end of the day the message is that it's okay to be a fraud.. the person you were when you were in the affair, just be a fraud who's not having sex with someone else. I'd prefer my WS stop the bull all together and do away with the fraud and deception on all fronts.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

lenzi said:


> We're back to morality, and responsibility and whether we choose to help our fellow planetary inhabitants. There are children starving in 3rd world countries and homeless people on the streets of our cities. Are you donating money to these countries? Would you provide a spare room to a homeless person? Say a "normal" person who lost their home in a natural disaster? Why not, they "deserve" to live like you do and if you have extra money why spend it on fine dining when you can put food in a starving child's mouth?


If I could feed the 3rd world country by making a phone call like I did to OMs GF, I would. Some things are easier than others to do... Letting a person know they are living with a boyfriend that's been cheating on them for years isn't the same as charity work, it's about doing the right thing in a situation where you are the only one who can help them. If I don't donate to the red cross, some other person will.. If I didn't tell that nice girl that her boyfriend was abusing her, she wouldn't find out and the chances would increase that he's going to do it again.. perhaps destroying lives in the process. Starving children? What are you comparing yourself to Mother Theresa now? (jk)


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

One of the first lessons I learned from my Dad, is that every word you speak and every action you take, has consequences. Apparently many people didn't learn that same lesson, including my ex wife. She learned it the hard way , when I kicked her butt onto the street. She learned it so well , that she exposed herself, and made such dramatic improvements in her behavior and actions that she is now living with me again as my SO. Pretty much everybody we know, is aware of her cheating, a few hold it against her, but a very few. Most people applaud her for her self improvement and renewed integrity. I think she is the most wonderful woman on earth. When I divorced her, I thought she was a wh*re. Exposure (openess) is the first step for BOTH the BS and WS towards self improvement and healing. Continued deceit or secrecy will almost certainly set back any true reconciliation. You cannot teach anyone anything about bad behavior by hiding or excusing it.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

lenzi said:


> Right.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My own and my families charitable work is well know in our community. Plus, my integrity is highly regarded, as well.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

russell28 said:


> If I could feed the 3rd world country by making a phone call like I did to OMs GF, I would. Some things are easier than others to do


You could do telephone calls for charity. It's the right thing to do if you believe in helping out disadvantaged strangers who deserve better. 



russell28 said:


> Letting a person know they are living with a boyfriend that's been cheating on them for years isn't the same as charity work, it's about doing the right thing in a situation where you are the only one who can help them. If I don't donate to the red cross, some other person will..


Interesting logical argument there. I'm not disputing it persay but it raises questions. If you're traveling down the road at night and you see a car on fire and someone is trapped would you risk your life in a possible explosion or burn injury, because no one else can help?

If there is one other person on the scene who CAN help, do you wait and see if they're going to pitch in first?

You would donate to the Red Cross or impoverished 3rd world countries but you don't see the need because other people do it?

I already said what I'd do- I'm not pulling a stranger out of a burning wreck if it puts me in jeopardy. I'm not donating to poor people because I'm content with allowing my taxes to do it for me. But according to your logic, if you're the 'only one' who can help, then you must do it?



russell28 said:


> Starving children? What are you comparing yourself to Mother Theresa now? (jk)


It's just a more extreme example to make the point that this argument is about whether or not those who can help are obligated to do things for complete strangers that need help and the inference that those who refuse to help are freeloaders who are contributing to the downfall of society.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

lenzi said:


> You could do telephone calls for charity. It's the right thing to do if you believe in helping out disadvantaged strangers who deserve better.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 This is not a matter of charity vs selfishness, it is a matter of integrity vs deception.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

lenzi said:


> You could do telephone calls for charity. It's the right thing to do if you believe in helping out disadvantaged strangers who deserve better.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I used to work 130 miles away from home. I have pulled someone out of a burning van, funny you bring that up. It was upside down at the time. I had three young children at the time, I didn't even think of myself or them, I just saw that this guy needed me at that moment and knew what to do. It was on the highway at a busy time, I was the first one to pull over because I saw it flip, but others followed.

I DO donate to the red cross, I also donate to the Jimmy Fund and many other charities, that wasn't the point. The point was that you're reaching. 

I'd like to think that others would do the same for me. It's a good rule to live by, do unto others....


edit: it was 130 miles both ways... I got that number because it's what I use on my expense report.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

russell28 said:


> I used to work 130 miles away from home. I have pulled someone out of a burning van, funny you bring that up. It was upside down at the time. I had three young children at the time, I didn't even think of myself or them, I just saw that this guy needed me at that moment and knew what to do. It was on the highway at a busy time, I was the first one to pull over because I saw it flip, but others followed.
> 
> I DO donate to the red cross, I also donate to the Jimmy Fund and many other charities, that wasn't the point. The point was that your reaching.


You are obviously a very moral guy with upstanding character who is very generous and the selfless type who will risk his own life to save a stranger. I'm glad we can count on guys like you and if I ever flip my car I hope you're the first one on the scene. I have no doubt that you'd expose a cheater in a heartbeat even if it caused you untold grief and aggravation. While I admire your position, it's not one that I would take but of course that's old news.


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## jay_gatsby (Jun 4, 2013)

lenzi said:


> You are obviously a very moral guy with upstanding character who is very generous and the selfless type who will risk his own life to save a stranger. I'm glad we can count on guys like you and if I ever flip my car I hope you're the first one on the scene. I have no doubt that you'd expose a cheater in a heartbeat even if it caused you untold grief and aggravation. While I admire your position, it's not one that I would take but of course that's old news.


Len, there are more people who think like you than Rus. While I do admire Rus' morality and disregard to self in face of danger to help a fellow man, I think it depends on the situation and who is in danger for the rest of us to jump in and help. I agree with you that if it was my kids in the van, I would not give a thought to my own personal safety. If it was a total stranger, I would probably hesitate.

As for the exposure topic. I think people confuse the reasons for exposure as truly helping or just plain getting payback. I agree some may see a "higher" purpose to exposure then what it really is, a way to share the pain.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

lenzi said:


> You are obviously a very moral guy with upstanding character who is very generous and the selfless type who will risk his own life to save a stranger. I'm glad we can count on guys like you and if I ever flip my car I hope you're the first one on the scene. I have no doubt that you'd expose a cheater in a heartbeat even if it caused you untold grief and aggravation. While I admire your position, it's not one that I would take but of course that's old news.


I'm the same way. I wouldn't hesitate to help a total stranger and frankly I have and probably will again. But not everyone feels the moral obligation to helps others when necessary. I get that. So let's try to put this in a way that you can relate to.

I believe you have said that you pay more than you think is fair to your ex wife in alimony payments. It certainly sounds like you went through a very contentious divorce. So let me ask you this question. If you were divorcing a spouse and that spouse had committed infidelity wouldn't you like that to be taken into consideration. If every divorce was neat and clean then how much destruction could there be? But if more people blew it up maybe these remorseless cheaters would be held accountable. After all, they are the ones that made this mess by cheating right? They are the ones that caused the destruction of the family right? Shouldn't that be taken into account? If more people expose and shine a light on the levels of destruction that infidelity causes maybe people would think twice? Certainly if more people exposed judges would have to start taking that into consideration right? Wouldn't you like your alimony payments to be less if your spouse destroyed your family by having a work affair. Wouldn't it be nice if employers actually punished employees for destroying families? And those employers that chose to ignore such behavior should be held accountable. Its a matter of morality and overall community values is it not?


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

bfree said:


> I believe you have said that you pay more than you think is fair to your ex wife in alimony payments. It certainly sounds like you went through a very contentious divorce. So let me ask you this question. If you were divorcing a spouse and that spouse had committed infidelity wouldn't you like that to be taken into consideration.


Sure if my exwife had cheated I would have liked to take it into consideration. But the courts in my area (as in most places) do not consider adultery when making their decisions. In fact, if she did cheat and if it was through a coworker, and if I did expose her at work (to either "get even" or "nuke the affair so she'd come back to me) and if she did lose her job and if she didn't come back to me and we got divorced anyway and she did get an increase in support payments as a result of the job loss she'd be smirking all the way to the bank and probably LOLing as she signed the back of the cheat. "That poor smuck is paying ME so I can sit at home on my A$$".



bfree said:


> If every divorce was neat and clean then how much destruction could there be?


There would probably be less destruction then an ugly contested divorce.



bfree said:


> But if more people blew it up maybe these remorseless cheaters would be held accountable. After all, they are the ones that made this mess by cheating right?


I don't know. The cheating is often a sign of existing problems within the marriage. The marriage might have been headed for divorce anyway, the cheating was just the proverbial straw which added to an existing mess. 



bfree said:


> They are the ones that caused the destruction of the family right? Shouldn't that be taken into account?


Again, divorce may have been inevitable. Both parties are probably to blame for the demise of a marriage- however I am not advocating cheating- it's a deceptive and cowardly act. To say "the cheating _caused_ the family destruction" may not be accurate. 



bfree said:


> If more people expose and shine a light on the levels of destruction that infidelity causes maybe people would think twice?


Maybe. Then again cheaters know what they're doing is hurtful and if they are caught it can mean the end of their marriage. They do it anyway, because they mitigate the risk, because they're caught up in the emotions of the affair. Can I say that if they knew there would be even worse consequences for cheating that the wouldn't do it? No, I can't say that. People often do stupid, reckless, irresponsible things and don't consider the consequences. I drive my convertible without a seatbelt. My girlfriend tells me she worries about me. In an accident I'd probably be thrown out of the car and killed. But fear of death doesn't dissuade me from driving without a seatbelt! So I don't know that fear of exposure would stop a cheater. 



bfree said:


> Certainly if more people exposed judges would have to start taking that into consideration right?


Courts used to consider infidelity, now most do not. It has taken, what, a 100 years for that to change? I don't believe that if more people exposed, that the laws would start to change back and that courts would start to consider infidelity when making their financial decisions. Even if it did it wouldn't happen in my lifetime.



bfree said:


> Wouldn't you like your alimony payments to be less if your spouse destroyed your family by having a work affair.


YES! I certainly would. But real life doesn't work that way. Odds are that if my spouse had a workplace affair and lost her job because of it, my alimony payments would be more. I'm just being realistic, it's not what I want. 



bfree said:


> Wouldn't it be nice if employers actually punished employees for destroying families?


Again, I don't know that the cheater or the affair partner "destroyed the family". I would blame myself for selecting such a person as my life partner and wouldn't expect her job to punish her for my bad mistakes. I don't believe that the affair partner is always guilty either. They could have been told anything.. the marriage is over, we're getting divorced, my husband beats me, whatever. Sometimes the affair partner is completely clueless and had no intention of destroying anyone's family. 



bfree said:


> And those employers that chose to ignore such behavior should be held accountable. Its a matter of morality and overall community values is it not?


An employers job is to make the business profitable and keep it that way. Healthy business stimulate the economy and provide jobs to the community's residents. It's not the employers job to fix broken families or punish cheaters.


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## oregonmom (Jan 6, 2012)

I don't regret exposing to some, but I do regret exposing to his family.

In my case, I was not just exposing his infidelity, I was exposing his drug addiction. I had enabled and kept hidden the damage his addiction was doing to our family and cheating was the last straw. The affair was just one thing of many I was no longer going to keep a secret. My parents and our closest friends have always been very supportive.

His family is very dysfunctional. Alcoholic parents and an entitled little sister who has had everything handed to her and hadn't worked a day in her life. They pretend everything is perfect when it is really a huge mess. Dad refused to talk about it, mom used it as another thing she could berate him about in her drunken tirades, and sis used it to further her cause as the "perfect" child and brother is a fvck up. They didn't give a rats a$$ about WH, me or our son.

Exposure can be a useful tool, but it definitely depends on who you are dealing with.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

jay_gatsby said:


> Do you think that will make her a different person? Is your goal to try to change her or to make yourself feel better?


It will never make her a better person, Jay! I now know exactly how jaded and twisted that her heart is, and was! She now has another man from her distant past sleeping with her and sharing her every confidence. Nothing I can do will make her happier other than being an instrument in making money for her! Trust me, she knows the game!

And although I'm still legally her husband, in her eyes, I'm greatly just a sack of trash that she discarded alongside the road!

The only change in her that I could even remotely see, is greatly over the course of time, much like her actions toward me, she'll come to tire from her squeaky new relationship with "Lil' Lord Lardass," and will start to look for a strange new male appendage to play with.

I'm outing her solely to reveal what a liar and cheater that she is, and to quash whatever credibility it is that she may try to seek. You could well say that I'm doing it solely for the "justice" aspect!


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

*Re: Re: Do you regret exposing the affair?*



lenzi said:


> Sure if my exwife had cheated I would have liked to take it into consideration. But the courts in my area (as in most places) do not consider adultery when making their decisions. In fact, if she did cheat and if it was through a coworker, and if I did expose her at work (to either "get even" or "nuke the affair so she'd come back to me) and if she did lose her job and if she didn't come back to me and we got divorced anyway and she did get an increase in support payments as a result of the job loss she'd be smirking all the way to the bank and probably LOLing as she signed the back of the cheat. "That poor smuck is paying ME so I can sit at home on my A$$".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And the courts will never change so long as we allow society to continue to whitewash the effects of adultery. If the courts do start taking adultery into consideration your alimony payments would not be more they would be less. Change the input and the output changes too. Real life does work that way. Affair partners would be more cognizant of the effects of infidelity if people would stand up and refuse to tolerate it. Look at all the threads on TAM where the WS says they knew it was wrong but they had no idea of the devastation that their adultery would cause. Why is that? Maybe because this destruction is not given a public forum so most people don't realize the true harm they are causing. It's not an employer's job to fix families but employer's should be held accountable if the culture promotes our tolerates company assets from being used to destroy families. It's no different from allowing power plants to pollute the environment.


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

Rookie4 said:


> I disagree, Ovid, It's always the right tool, but it can be applied with various degrees of force.


In my case it would have been the wrong tool. So no not always.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

jay_gatsby said:


> Len, there are more people who think like you than Rus. While I do admire Rus' morality and disregard to self in face of danger to help a fellow man, I think it depends on the situation and who is in danger for the rest of us to jump in and help. I agree with you that if it was my kids in the van, I would not give a thought to my own personal safety. If it was a total stranger, I would probably hesitate.
> 
> As for the exposure topic. I think people confuse the reasons for exposure as truly helping or just plain getting payback. I agree some may see a "higher" purpose to exposure then what it really is, a way to share the pain.


I have given several reasons to expose, completely unrelated to revenge or "pain sharing" whatever that means. Must be some new age babel or other, like "closure." instead of Justice. Remember, exposure is the enemy of infidelity, secrecy is it's friend. Almost no affairs continue past exposure, except exit ones.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Exposure is the quickest and most effective way to inject reality into the fantasy. They have to immediately accept that others know what they've done and stop avoiding the truth. Righteous entitlement and finding ways to be the victim doesn't work so well for them when the affair is exposed. They can't frame their conversations for the answers they want because the truth gets in the way. 

Also cheaters blame the BS if they can get away with it. Exposure is like punching blame-shifting in the face. It's saying if you felt entitled to screw around then obviously you shouldn't mind everyone know. They do not like that though because it forces them to own their sh!tty behavior.

Defending our personal worth is an admirable and respectable quality. Holding your partner accountable when they've betrayed you is one signature of valuing your own personal worth and having self esteem. It's one way to demand respect back when the WS obviously had no respect to be doing what they were. Because of this I think exposure is needed to successfully reconcile. It's the best chance to make the WS actually change and to avoid false reconciliation.

So for anyone wanting to reconcile, exposure is the best bet. For anyone just wanting to get away from the cheating piece of sh!t then maybe it doesn't matter so much. Usually what happens in real life though is people avoid exposing for the wrong reasons. 
1. embarassed they were cheated on.
2. they have some false sense of needing to protect the cheater. In this case they are actually doing everything they can to make the other person cheat again.


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