# Do Exes who had affairs ever realize the pain they caused and apologize?



## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

Just curious.......it have been about 18 months since my ex got up and walked out the door to live with another dude...she left me and our 18 year old son behind...
It has been 18 months and she has carried on without missing a step. She has continued contact with our boys but lies through her teeth....
tells them her and AP are through even though she lives with him.
tells her family shes happy but wont openly discuss her relationship with her live in boyfriend....

its like I am living in a different world....it is really bizarre...
as a matter of fact.....some of her friends she used to help orchestrate the affair now are embarrassed whenever they see me and look away...it is like they know what they did and are embarrassed to have partaken in it....
Anyone else have similar events happen like that...


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## Burned (Jul 13, 2013)

bigtone128 said:


> Just curious.......it have been about 18 months since my ex got up and walked out the door to live with another dude...she left me and our 18 year old son behind...
> It has been 18 months and she has carried on without missing a step. She has continued contact with our boys but lies through her teeth....
> tells them her and AP are through even though she lives with him.
> tells her family shes happy but wont openly discuss her relationship with her live in boyfriend....
> ...



I got plenty of sorries, in fact I got one after every EA and the PA but they continued so the "Sorries" didn't mean anything. 

Together 20 years and she treats it like she never knew me or cared for me. Just strange how I'm a stranger to the woman I devoted my life to.


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

Burned said:


> I got plenty of sorries, in fact I got one after every EA and the PA but they continued so the "Sorries" didn't mean anything.
> 
> Together 20 years and she treats it like she never knew me or cared for me. Just strange how I'm a stranger to the woman I devoted my life to.


no apologies here.....but treatment is the same....
I've known her since we were kids....and now I don't exist.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

In order to apologize, she'd have to admit she's done something wrong. Since she's not, I assume it's all your fault she cheated. You were probably 'controlling', or not fulfilling all her needs. You should apologize to her... 

Seriously.. 
Cheaters use gas-lighting and blame-shifting to avoid having to look at the dark place in them that allows them to do such horrible things. Nobody wants to admit they are cruel abusive, cheap, dirty liars... so they pretend they aren't, and you're such a horrible person that you deserved such terrible treatment. Since in reality you more than likely didn't deserve it, they turn you into a monster so it all feels better. If you're a monster, they're not at fault for 'leaving you'. I know it makes no sense... It really doesn't. Don't try to understand it, you won't be able to.

It can be summed up in one word:

Denial.


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

russell28 said:


> In order to apologize, she'd have to admit she's done something wrong. Since she's not, I assume it's all your fault she cheated. You were probably 'controlling', or not fulfilling all her needs. You should apologize to her...
> 
> Seriously..
> Cheaters use gas-lighting and blame-shifting to avoid having to look at the dark place in them that allows them to do such horrible things. Nobody wants to admit they are cruel abusive, cheap, dirty liars... so they pretend they aren't, and you're such a horrible person that you deserved such terrible treatment. Since in reality you more than likely didn't deserve it, they turn you into a monster so it all feels better. If you're a monster, they're not at fault for 'leaving you'. I know it makes no sense... It really doesn't. Don't try to understand it, you won't be able to.
> ...


I feel "double victimized" because of being betrayed and then painted as a monster....then to be treated like I don't exist.


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

heres the odd thing..... we had a summer home which I vacated after the split.....and my boys just came from it and told me EVERYTHING is the same in it... my books are still there, other writings, etc. it is odd she would not remove all my stuff...
makes no sense at all....it has been 18 months....and she never talks about her boyfriend with her family yet everyone knows about it? weird....


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

No not unless they want something they are after all pretty selfish


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

I got in several physical confrontations with my dad, the WS. 

The first time was instigated by him. The later ones, who knows. Might have been my fault, or his. 

And he has yet to apologize for the first time. And I am not going to apologize for the later ones. 
And I doubt he ever will.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

bigtone128 said:


> I feel "double victimized" because of being *betrayed *and then painted as a *monster*....then to be treated like I *don't exist*.


That's a triple.. hat trick. Triple the pain.


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

That is why I consider betrayal much more than cheating.

Betrayal is character assassination by someone that you trusted and loved. Having an affair is only a portion of the damage that is done to you. That is why I feel it is so evil and mean.

Sorry? They only feel their pain. Their pain is for the loss of security, embarassement, and guilt. I believe they do not understand what the pain depth really is. 

It doesn't mean anything, because they don't value the concept of fidelity.

That is also why a RA really doesn't make it even.

That is why R is more difficult than D.

Not trying to offend the repentent WSs. Some realize the debt they owe, but none can ever repay it in full.

Just my rant for the afternoon.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

bigtone128 said:


> Just curious.......it have been about 18 months since my ex got up and walked out the door to live with another dude...she left me and our 18 year old son behind...
> It has been 18 months and she has carried on without missing a step. She has continued contact with our boys but lies through her teeth....
> tells them her and AP are through even though she lives with him.
> tells her family shes happy but wont openly discuss her relationship with her live in boyfriend....
> ...


Yes they do. They do when it's been done to them, or in moments of reflection. if someone moved forward and supported in their new situation, they just may not... Especially if they moved forward into a cake eating fest with others who are doing it. They may make all kinds of excuses or blame redirections on you.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

russell28 said:


> That's a triple.. hat trick. Triple the pain.


Happened to me too. The cheater decided nothing would "stick" to them, so they took all they were doing and "stuck" the crap on me.

Solution is to get out of the circle who supports this, cut off all contact and communication to the ex and friends who supported it, move on with your life.


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

I could have dealt with her falling in love with someone else....but it was the blind-sidedness and underhandedness and the treachery of how she did it.....knowing what it would have done to me....but kept going anyway....but why keep pictures of us up on the wall and my books around the house....makes no sense??


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

treyvion said:


> Solution is to get out of the circle who supports this, cut off all contact and communication to the ex and friends who supported it, move on with your life.


so very true......


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## life101 (Nov 18, 2012)

Apology?

HAHAHAHAHA

She is not a monster, didn't you know? I am THE monster.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

When I was married my FIL had a collection of guitars that were part of his fathers estate. He doesn't play and they were taking up space so he asked me to take one for myself. I picked a well played, great feeling and great sounding 1968 Gibson southern jumbo. The body was warped, lacquer cracked and discolored and the fretboard was somewhat worn out. Sure enough it was the one his father played the most, so I think he hesitated to give it to me for a moment, but then realized it was probably the best one to give to me because I would play it and take care of it and hand it down to my son.

Well today, more than 2 years after divorcing my ex tells me her dad wants it back.

That hurt. I can't believe he doesn't trust me. Had I known that receiving this gift was conditional on his daughter not being a selfish tramp that would betray her family, I wouldn't have accepted. I love that guitar but now I kind of just want to tell him to take his fcking guitar and let it collect all the dust it will as it dries out just like his family's love does.

Yeah, no doubt that infidelity caused all kind of irrepairable damage.


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

bigtone128 said:


> I could have dealt with her falling in love with someone else....but it was the blind-sidedness and underhandedness and the treachery of how she did it.....knowing what it would have done to me....but kept going anyway....but why keep pictures of us up on the wall and my books around the house....makes no sense??


She knows what she did, and what she lost. It sounds like she's holding onto a piece of it there.

Sometimes there is an apology, but it never comes before the cheater hits bottom. Until then it's easier to carry on in denial.


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## Burned (Jul 13, 2013)

bigtone128 said:


> I could have dealt with her falling in love with someone else....but it was the blind-sidedness and underhandedness and the treachery of how she did it.....knowing what it would have done to me....but kept going anyway....but why keep pictures of us up on the wall and my books around the house....makes no sense??


I agree, I would have been ok to hear "I just don't love you like a wife should" line before I found out about the PA. But to hear it after I caught her and asked her to move out didn't mean a damn thing to me, it was all mind movies at that point with her mouth moving and only hearing wha wha wha wha whaa, wha wha wha wha whaaa.

I wonder if the pictures and books have any effect on her the way they would you? Pictures and reminders are the first thing to come down for me but she just didn't care if she saw a picture of us, almost like it wasn't her in the picture.


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

Ovid said:


> She knows what she did, and what she lost. It sounds like she's holding onto a piece of it there.
> 
> Sometimes there is an apology, but it never comes before the cheater hits bottom. Until then it's easier to carry on in denial.


so true.....


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

Some cheaters are so obsesed with being right, when they're caught they double down. They will do anything but go back because they would have to admit they were wrong.


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

Burned said:


> I wonder if the pictures and books have any effect on her the way they would you? Pictures and reminders are the first thing to come down for me but she just didn't care if she saw a picture of us, almost like it wasn't her in the picture.


oddly on facebook she took down pictures of family and us right away after the split but in our summer home everything is as usual.... VERY odd....my mother thinks it is just trying top ut on a front for her family and friends that nothing really happened and to cover-up what she did.


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

Ovid said:


> Some cheaters are so obsesed with being right, when they're caught they double down. They will do anything but go back because they would have to admit they were wrong.


exactly the way my ex is....


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

I married a sadist. No conscience, no mercy, no acknowledgement, no apology. His crimes go far beyond infidelity.


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

SaltInWound said:


> I married a sadist. No conscience, no mercy, no acknowledgement, no apology. His crimes go far beyond infidelity.


That sucks. 

Your wording is telling. "Crimes" is a vivid description. It sure feels like something criminal by the damage that is inflicted.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

Lovemytruck said:


> That is why I consider betrayal much more than cheating.
> 
> Betrayal is character assassination by someone that you trusted and loved. Having an affair is only a portion of the damage that is done to you. That is why I feel it is so evil and mean.
> 
> ...


You headed me into an odd direction....

A cheater doesn't feel badly because they don't harm the spouse...They kill the person their spouse was in love with......

They don't see the dead lover, they see the expendable spouse.....

The cheater kills the person their partner loved, and doesn't see a body.......So no harm done....

the woodchuck


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

Woodchuck said:


> You headed me into an odd direction....
> 
> A cheater doesn't feel badly because they don't harm the spouse...They kill the person their spouse was in love with......
> 
> ...


Good point, but with the changes infidelity causes in the betrayed they have effectively killed both. They just don't see it because they don't notice the change in the betrayed.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

There's a level of denial, lack of self-accountability and mild to severe selfishness that exists in ALL cheaters. You may not have recognized it prior to the cheating but it was there. It permeates in all of their decisions and actions.

My ex cheated on me for 3 years with the neighbor, without me knowing. I'm certain there were other AP's as well but it doesn't really matter. We decided to divorce due to our relationship falling apart (go figure). I was just tired of having a mean and nasty roommate. Then I found out the details of the cheating. I always suspected it, but never truly knew.

Then the divorce happens. This SAHM sobs to her family and hires a cut throat attorney who tries to fleece me. She wanted me to keep her in the same financial standing, which wasn't a lot. I made $60,000 per year back then, but due to some changes in the economy, I was only making $750 per week take home. She got the house and the better car. She was trying to get $290 per week in child support (2 kids) and $250 per week in alimony (for a 6 year marriage). I was going to be left with $210 per week to live on, while paying full day care and health insurance, while she remained a SAHM.

The mediator said, this is pretty much what you're looking at. I asked, what happens if I can't pay. "You'll go to prison". Well see you in prison. That stage of the divorce was the hardest on me. I was hurt by the cheating, but could "fathom" it due to who she was etc. But I provided her with a good lifestyle and treated her well. I was the "classic nice guy" and she was trying to stick it to me for the rest of my life. (alimony for a 6 year marriage that she cheated for half of it). As odd as it sounds, her attempting that hurt more.

SO no, she didn't comprehend the hurt she caused LOL. She would actively look for ways to hurt me, including using the kids after and during the divorce.


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## Burned (Jul 13, 2013)

Dad&Hubby said:


> There's a level of denial, lack of self-accountability and mild to severe selfishness that exists in ALL cheaters. You may not have recognized it prior to the cheating but it was there. It permeates in all of their decisions and actions.
> 
> My ex cheated on me for 3 years with the neighbor, without me knowing. I'm certain there were other AP's as well but it doesn't really matter. We decided to divorce due to our relationship falling apart (go figure). I was just tired of having a mean and nasty roommate. Then I found out the details of the cheating. I always suspected it, but never truly knew.
> 
> ...



I might just see you in there! At this point I'm ready and willing because I refuse to work 55+ hours per week to support an evil person. I don't want her living on the streets mind you but she can make an effort to get a couple of jobs and give up her yoga class and days hiking.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

D&H, yep we learned the hard way these women we trusted are the ones we should have trusted least (how did we pick so poorly?)

Anyways, my ex is acting very strange these days, likely because I revealed to her that I'm in a relationship. But several red flags are popping up that she is planning for something, and I expect there may be some nastiness around the corner. (i have this nagging suspicion she is looking for a way to have me declared an unfit parent... Which is so going to bite her in the ass)


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

bigtone128 said:


> so very true......


Some of them always were injecting indifference or bad karma into you, you just didn't realize it until the blowout... A good friend should be treasured and valued!


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

Ovid said:


> Good point, but with the changes infidelity causes in the betrayed they have effectively killed both. They just don't see it because they don't notice the change in the betrayed.


Absolutely, The spouse was expendable the second the affair began, so they deserve nothing....

the woodchuck


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## movin on (Jan 24, 2012)

Why would they say sorry to the big meanie who stood in the way of their happiness with their soulmate lovey dovey?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I think they come to regret it but they may not tell you out of pride. 

My father had an affair with one woman during my parents marrige. The year before he died, he began to stay home on w/e, something he rarely did. He took my mother out every W/E. He called her frequently during the day. He didn't ignore her when he was home. 

My father never apologized verbally. Unknown to my mother, he set up annuities that allow her to live with no financial worries. The OW got nothing. Was that an apology or guilt? 

My father seemed to need the attention of others to feel adequate. He was the life of the party, everyone loved him. He had many friends and people wanted to be around him. However, he was nothing like his public persona. He was silent, morose and very angry. 

How do cheaters hurt their partners without appearent emotional distress, empathy and compassion? How do they switch off their feelings even towards their own kids? Since so many apparently normal people can do it, the trait must be part of the basic human phyche. 

We all have it to some degree. Why do some people act on it and others not? Opportunity, serious character flaws, poor impulse control, momentary lapse of judgment or control, unhappiness with the trajectory of their lives, getting old. 

Doesn't help the LS feel any better but it has nothing to do with them. I don't think many WW spouse find the happiness and escape they desire . Can a  sudden departure in cloud of brain chemicals with little reasonable thought bring happiness and contentment? 

My mother was obviously not happy but neither was my father. He never found what he was looking for, acceptence. He was too lazy to work on his root problem. He should have been happy. He had it all, kids, fathful wife and mother and a woman on the side. 

He should have spent his time working on becoming a good father and husband instead of chasing after validation with OW. He would have enjoyed the abundance of the unconditional adoration of four children and the love of a beautiful woman, my mother in his own home. . 

Umm What was the question?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mike11 (Aug 25, 2011)

Lon said:


> When I was married my FIL had a collection of guitars that were part of his fathers estate. He doesn't play and they were taking up space so he asked me to take one for myself. I picked a well played, great feeling and great sounding 1968 Gibson southern jumbo. The body was warped, lacquer cracked and discolored and the fretboard was somewhat worn out. Sure enough it was the one his father played the most, so I think he hesitated to give it to me for a moment, but then realized it was probably the best one to give to me because I would play it and take care of it and hand it down to my son.
> 
> Well today, more than 2 years after divorcing my ex tells me her dad wants it back.
> 
> ...


Tell her to @! off, nice of him to want it back, dont even react to that


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> I think they come to regret it but they may not tell you out of pride.
> 
> My father had an affair with one woman during my parents marrige. The year before he died, he began to stay home on w/e, something he rarely did. He took my mother out every W/E. He called her frequently during the day. He didn't ignore her when he was home.
> 
> ...


I think many WS have an almost pathological need for validation from others i.e. a middle-aged woman who wants to know she is still desirable to other men. It's really sad....


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## krismimo (Jan 26, 2011)

I had a weird experience with this as well. The ex apologized at first. And then he semi stalked me???:scratchhead:. To be fair my ex was going to College out of state and we lived together. I needed time to get my things together and get some finances in order. 

The ex came back around Thanksgiving and he was calling numbers from my cell phone service he called my then boyfriend/now husband and hung up on him. It was AWKWARD. The ex called me a few times and to add insult to injury I wasn't "home". :smthumbup: I came by the old house and I didn't have all my things packed yet I was still getting things together, and he was trying to ask who I was out with and who this number was... asking in way to imply we were still together. 

I think he expected me to wait for him when he came back (We broke up during the summer) I told him it was none of his business since we broke up, he had the nerve to say well you did it to me! I said the reason why I did that was because
we broke up! Crickets.... he apologized again and tried to be all weepy and sad but I wasn't feeling it. I can tell he wanted me to stay but I was fed up at that time. I told him I had to go that I had plans and take care. And told him please don't go through my phone like that again. (Of course I switched cell phone providers and got a new number quick fast and a hurry)

Now the real kicker is when I bumped into my ex's cousin who was actually pretty cool. (We also went to the same HS before I met my ex) small world I know. I see his cousin at a bar he was there with some of his coworkers, he was very polite and spoke to my husband and my best friend who also there with me. 

The cousin didn't even know we broke up, nor did he know I got married he said you look happy, and that's because I was, at that time we were broken up for a few years. Which was really really weird because my ex and the cousin were close. (At this time my ex moved out of state and stayed his cowardice a** out there.) The cousin told my husband to make sure he takes care of me because I was a good one, that made me feel good. He asked me if it was ok to add him on FB. He thinks his cousin/my ex totally f**** up. 

So about later on that year about two months later I came across this blog my ex wrote he is a wannabe writer and he was basically bashing me and calling me psycho. Someone is jealous perhaps? I also told the cousin why we broke up I wasn't angry or anything I just told him the truth. So anyway I guess the funny thing is people colors come out. He apologized but still continued to say things behind my back. Only he knows if he was truly sorry or not at this point I don't care. All I know is he was sorry, a sorry excuse of a man child.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

I have a thought and my aftermath....

First, the aftermath (I discovered this a few years after the divorce). After her first betrayal my ex and her sister plotted a divorce. Due to an old and rarely used fact of Oregon law (after 20 years of marriage the wife can ask for everything and the judge has to consider it) she continued to betray (at that time only married for 17 years) and we moved from my career job to the city her sister lived in as she (lied) to me it would help "us". Once there she got a job and started saving much of her money away in secret, having her boyfriend, planning, got me to buy and pay off a new car for her... Then after I found out about her bf and ditched her she waited until our 20th anniversary and filed. She was awarded 100% of my 401K (she claimed to pay for medical expenses- which may have been true as she had a couple of surgeries when we were separated), the new car (mine was 20 years old), 75% of the sale of the house and $250/mo in alimony for 2 years (she quit her job by design just before filing). It's amazing how the betrayed have to pay out for the betrayers.

Now, my thought. We know for a fact that betrayers can never remotely realize the true pain the betrayed suffers. And we can agree that while a very select few actually try, eventually they get tired of humility and contrition (as would be expected) and move on in their mind. But I can think of several people (one on this board- I think she goes by EI or El or something like that) I know from the other board I was a mod at who really make the effort to reconcile and absorb some of the pain to the extent they can and even though most of those marriages fail, I will give them their due. It's only fair to do so. (although my ex was never like that)


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

Liars are only sorry when they have to be. It's just human nature to protect ourselves.

I read here a lot and I rarely believe anyone WS is truly sorry. Just sorry THEY got caught and can't have THEIR cake and eat it too.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

My first wife started cheating before our wedding and continued on until just a few months after when I caught her. She said she was sorry in the same way someone would say sorry if they backed into your car. I caught her contacting the OM and filed for annulment. It did not even faze her. She moved out and immediately began spreading her legs for any guy who seemed interested. 

It wasn't until twenty years had passed and we reunited that I finally got a true heartfelt apology and remorse from her. She had spent half those years being used and abused by her second husband and a trail of men who used her and dumped her. She eventually hit rock bottom, got into intense counseling and slowly over time fixed herself. Now we are actually friends again and we have cordial e-mail and text correspondence. But it's sad that she had to go through such a debasing ordeal to get to where she now acts like a decent person.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

LostViking said:


> My first wife started cheating before our wedding and continued on until just a few months after when I caught her. She said she was sorry in the same way someone would say sorry if they backed into your car. I caught her contacting the OM and filed for annulment. It did not even faze her. She moved out and immediately began spreading her legs for any guy who seemed interested.
> 
> It wasn't until twenty years had passed and we reunited that I finally got a true heartfelt apology and remorse from her. She had spent half those years being used and abused by her second husband and a trail of men who used her and dumped her. She eventually hit rock bottom, got into intense counseling and slowly over time fixed herself. Now we are actually friends again and we have cordial e-mail and text correspondence. But it's sad that she had to go through such a debasing ordeal to get to where she now acts like a decent person.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Just great.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Hehe

"For Chrisakes I'm sorry okay" ....."now can we talk about you selling the house and giving me £85,000"

(Serial cheat for ten years or so)



How's that for sorry!?


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

LostViking said:


> My first wife started cheating before our wedding and continued on until just a few months after when I caught her. She said she was sorry in the same way someone would say sorry if they backed into your car. I caught her contacting the OM and filed for annulment. It did not even faze her. She moved out and immediately began spreading her legs for any guy who seemed interested.
> 
> It wasn't until twenty years had passed and we reunited that I finally got a true heartfelt apology and remorse from her. She had spent half those years being used and abused by her second husband and a trail of men who used her and dumped her. She eventually hit rock bottom, got into intense counseling and slowly over time fixed herself. Now we are actually friends again and we have cordial e-mail and text correspondence. But it's sad that she had to go through such a debasing ordeal to get to where she now acts like a decent person.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sad indeed.


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

So I guess I'll be waiting a while.....I think now when she was having the affair and I dropped her off to work one day and she said "I'm warning you to do what I say or else!" to which I responded "That does not sound like love to me?" and she got out....and I thought it was odd for her to be issuing an ultimatum because it was not like her. I realize now she was feeling brave because she had someone in the background ready (or who was already doing it with her).


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Burned said:


> I might just see you in there! At this point I'm ready and willing because I refuse to work 55+ hours per week to support an evil person. I don't want her living on the streets mind you but she can make an effort to get a couple of jobs and give up her yoga class and days hiking.





Lon said:


> D&H, yep we learned the hard way these women we trusted are the ones we should have trusted least (how did we pick so poorly?)
> 
> Anyways, my ex is acting very strange these days, likely because I revealed to her that I'm in a relationship. But several red flags are popping up that she is planning for something, and I expect there may be some nastiness around the corner. (i have this nagging suspicion she is looking for a way to have me declared an unfit parent... Which is so going to bite her in the ass)


I was lucky. My ex, who's a genius manipulator, isn't very bright in other areas. She used the divorce simply to hurt me and try and make it where she didn't have to work. Her family hired an expensive lawyer from the start. We had no assets aside from a house (which really wasn't an asset because we owed as much as it was worth LOL). That's it. No retirement, no real savings etc. She spent any money I had before the divorce started. 

But she dragged out the divorce and when her attorney bill hit $10,000, and the courts refused to make me liable for her legal fees because of the attorney they hired, her family "cut her off" because they spent $10,000 for nothing. I had already said I'd give her the house, we'd have joint custody with her as the primary care parent (a standard in my state), I'd take the cheaper and older car. Child support, 80% of the time, is a simple calculation (her attorney tried to do the exception of having it calculated on what I was 'capable of earning', not what I was ACTUALLY earning). But I had 2 requirements. Child support calculated on REAL wages and no alimony (given we hadn't been married 7 years, we had technically only been married 5 when the divorce started and 6 years 9 months when it was finalized, even though she was trying to delay the divorce to get past 7 years (3 more months and it would have been). So her family spent that money for no reason LOL. She ended up going to the last two court sessions without an attorney and I had at that point hired a very good attorney. LOL. She even brought our 18 month old daughter, who I hadn't seen in 6 months due to her manipulations, to one of the court sessions. That went well with the judge LOL :smthumbup:. I was going to say something to her because I was livid, but my attorney said "Don't bother, you'll get into an argument for no reason, and this lets the judge see who this woman is".

My attorney, who's seen a LOT of contentious divorces said my wife was probably one of the most unreasonable and psychotic people he's ever seen in a divorce....so to answer your question. I know "how" I picked my ex...I'm just not proud of it. LOL. She saw a money ticket and I was at my lowest having just had a minor breakdown, she got her claws in me and it just went down hill. My best friend said to me. "Dude, you looked like you had no soul anymore." talking about me during my marriage.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

bigtone128 said:


> So I guess I'll be waiting a while.....I think now when she was having the affair and I dropped her off to work one day and she said "I'm warning you to do what I say or else!" to which I responded "That does not sound like love to me?" and she got out....and I thought it was odd for her to be issuing an ultimatum because it was not like her. I realize now she was feeling brave because she had someone in the background ready (or who was already doing it with her).


Correct me if I'm wrong. You're separated, or split from her right?

You should say "or else what?" 

Once the divorce was over and I had to have visitation modified for summer vacations (because she'd play games) I had enough of my ex's screwing around. One time she was trying to get into with me and I happened to have the divorce decree in my pocket. I stopped her mid rant and put the decree in her face. "See this, this is my "I don't have to listen to what comes out of your pie hole" card" and walked away. She didn't move for what felt like a few minutes because she was stunned. I was done with her crap.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> I have a thought and my aftermath....
> 
> First, the aftermath (I discovered this a few years after the divorce). After her first betrayal my ex and her sister plotted a divorce. Due to an old and rarely used fact of Oregon law (after 20 years of marriage the wife can ask for everything and the judge has to consider it) she continued to betray (at that time only married for 17 years) and we moved from my career job to the city her sister lived in as she (lied) to me it would help "us". Once there she got a job and started saving much of her money away in secret, having her boyfriend, planning, got me to buy and pay off a new car for her... Then after I found out about her bf and ditched her she waited until our 20th anniversary and filed. She was awarded 100% of my 401K (she claimed to pay for medical expenses- which may have been true as she had a couple of surgeries when we were separated), the new car (mine was 20 years old), 75% of the sale of the house and $250/mo in alimony for 2 years (she quit her job by design just before filing). It's amazing how the betrayed have to pay out for the betrayers.
> 
> Now, my thought. We know for a fact that betrayers can never remotely realize the true pain the betrayed suffers. And we can agree that while a very select few actually try, eventually they get tired of humility and contrition (as would be expected) and move on in their mind. But I can think of several people (one on this board- I think she goes by EI or El or something like that) I know from the other board I was a mod at who really make the effort to reconcile and absorb some of the pain to the extent they can and even though most of those marriages fail, I will give them their due. It's only fair to do so. (although my ex was never like that)


Your wife is evil. To plot like that with her sister just shows the pit vipers you married and were related to.

Please let us know when the Karma bus runs her over...


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

If they've moved on. In most cases, nope. Out of sight, out of mind. I'm happy, and who are you again? Oh, that's right. It's so and so that I knew back then, oh well, life moves on.

Now, if they get cheated on, then they'll finally realize the pain but in most cases also, they won't realize...Oh wait, is this how much I hurt so and so. I'm so sorry.

Doesn't happen much.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

CH said:


> If they've moved on. In most cases, nope. Out of sight, out of mind. I'm happy, and who are you again? Oh, that's right. It's so and so that I knew back then, oh well, life moves on.
> 
> Now, if they get cheated on, then they'll finally realize the pain but in most cases also, they won't realize...Oh wait, is this how much I hurt so and so. I'm so sorry.
> 
> Doesn't happen much.


Doesn't happen much and you cannot wait around for it. It may never ever happen. They may have support within their shenannigans that promote these type of behaviors. Again, nothing you can worry about. Perhaps all along where signatures or character traits of this type of person, that you should be more aware of for the future.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Ah BT.

I have followed your threads since the beginning.

And you keep trying to make sense out of the nonsensable.

Your wife is a WAW!

They are the worst in my opinion. Because not only are they cheaters but they are in a state of almighty entitlement that they see nothing wrong with walking out on their husband, marriage, children and family.

And they keep up the appearances like nothing has changed, you are both still friends (remember the greeting at the graduation) that just had a mutal agreement to split.

That her life is just dandy and so is yours.

Your EXW is a classic narcissist BT. She is one of those!

I do hope in time you stop thinking about her. She is not worth one minute of your thoughts. I know you knew her for a very long time but she is definitely not the woman you knew or married.

"She is just someone you used to know". 

And in my book she will never have any valid reason for what she did to you and the boys.

As always you are in my prayers.
HM64


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

russell28 said:


> In order to apologize, she'd have to admit she's done something wrong. Since she's not, I assume it's all your fault she cheated. You were probably 'controlling', or not fulfilling all her needs. You should apologize to her...
> 
> Seriously..
> Cheaters use gas-lighting and blame-shifting to avoid having to look at the dark place in them that allows them to do such horrible things. Nobody wants to admit they are cruel abusive, cheap, dirty liars... so they pretend they aren't, and you're such a horrible person that you deserved such terrible treatment. Since in reality you more than likely didn't deserve it, they turn you into a monster so it all feels better. If you're a monster, they're not at fault for 'leaving you'. I know it makes no sense... It really doesn't. Don't try to understand it, you won't be able to.
> ...


Nailed it R28 - 'nuff said


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

russell28 said:


> In order to apologize, she'd have to admit she's done something wrong. Since she's not, I assume it's all your fault she cheated. You were probably 'controlling', or not fulfilling all her needs. You should apologize to her...
> 
> Seriously..
> Cheaters use gas-lighting and blame-shifting to avoid having to look at the dark place in them that allows them to do such horrible things. Nobody wants to admit they are cruel abusive, cheap, dirty liars... so they pretend they aren't, and you're such a horrible person that you deserved such terrible treatment. Since in reality you more than likely didn't deserve it, they turn you into a monster so it all feels better. If you're a monster, they're not at fault for 'leaving you'. I know it makes no sense... It really doesn't. Don't try to understand it, you won't be able to.
> ...


Russell28,

You stuck this like an olympic gymnastic member sticks their landing. This was an awesome and concise description of what gaslighting is. 

I could have never known until I went through it myself.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

russell28 said:


> In order to apologize, she'd have to admit she's done something wrong. Since she's not, I assume it's all your fault she cheated. You were probably 'controlling', or not fulfilling all her needs. You should apologize to her...
> 
> Seriously..
> Cheaters use gas-lighting and blame-shifting to avoid having to look at the dark place in them that allows them to do such horrible things. Nobody wants to admit they are cruel abusive, cheap, dirty liars... so they pretend they aren't, and you're such a horrible person that you deserved such terrible treatment. Since in reality you more than likely didn't deserve it, they turn you into a monster so it all feels better. If you're a monster, they're not at fault for 'leaving you'. I know it makes no sense... It really doesn't. Don't try to understand it, you won't be able to.
> ...


Spot on. 

Looking back I now shiver with the thought about the times when even I actually believed her, even I in the middle of her madness (borderline personalty disorder) had me believing what I shvt I'd become and how I deserved the crap she was dishing out 

Christ every word you say is right on the money, what a complete and utter nasty evil ***** she was / still is


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## Numbersixxx (Oct 10, 2012)

Dad&Hubby said:


> There's a level of denial, lack of self-accountability and mild to severe selfishness that exists in ALL cheaters. You may not have recognized it prior to the cheating but it was there. It permeates in all of their decisions and actions.
> 
> My ex cheated on me for 3 years with the neighbor, without me knowing. I'm certain there were other AP's as well but it doesn't really matter. We decided to divorce due to our relationship falling apart (go figure). I was just tired of having a mean and nasty roommate. Then I found out the details of the cheating. I always suspected it, but never truly knew.
> 
> ...


Just a quick question, don't want to derail the thread.

Why do you people (americans) still tolerate this SAH bullsh!t? There is just no logical reason for it to still exist. You are currently living in an environment of 50% divorce rate and archaic family laws that condone and enforce legal theft i.e. alimony. Being a SAHM is like winning the jackpot when it comes to divorce, and you, the providers, are the big losers.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TimesOfChange (Mar 20, 2013)

I've come to find out, that an apology can be just a nother tool for the cheaters selfish cause.
In my case she apologized only for her conscience, to look good for her family and friends..."she's such a good woman" that's what her mother kept sayin.
And her friends, well...one helped her to stash her money away and a nother one contacted her mother "to help her friend :scratchhead:". 
And her family and friends, they did not bother to contact me again..as a matter of fact i found out later that they informed her about every move i did.

Apologized: Yes
Realized the pain: No


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I don't see why anyone would want an apology from a cheater. You can't expect any worthwhile comment from that type of person. It would be like getting a handful of counterfeit hundred dollar bills from them. Totally worthless. In my case, we haven't spoken since the break up and we won't unless I do not see it coming.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

russell28 said:


> In order to apologize, she'd have to admit she's done something wrong. Since she's not, I assume it's all your fault she cheated. You were probably 'controlling', or not fulfilling all her needs. You should apologize to her...
> 
> Seriously..
> Cheaters use gas-lighting and blame-shifting to avoid having to look at the dark place in them that allows them to do such horrible things. Nobody wants to admit they are cruel abusive, cheap, dirty liars... so they pretend they aren't, and you're such a horrible person that you deserved such terrible treatment. Since in reality you more than likely didn't deserve it, they turn you into a monster so it all feels better. If you're a monster, they're not at fault for 'leaving you'. I know it makes no sense... It really doesn't. Don't try to understand it, you won't be able to.
> ...


Correction - two words - denial and selfish.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

bigtone128 said:


> I feel "double victimized" because of being betrayed and then painted as a monster....then to be treated like I don't exist.


You and Hoosier are in the same shoes. What you're seeking is closure, you want your XW to be remorseful, be apologetic. Unfortunately, you may not get it. That's something you have to learn to live with: the lack of closure. I never got closure from my XW after she cheated on me and we divorced. For a while, I kept waiting for her to apologize, to say she fracked up. She never did. And that's fine. 

What you're feeling is normal. Eventually, it will pass as you continue to detach.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Numbersixxx said:


> Just a quick question, don't want to derail the thread.
> 
> Why do you people (americans) still tolerate this SAH bullsh!t? There is just no logical reason for it to still exist. You are currently living in an environment of 50% divorce rate and archaic family laws that condone and enforce legal theft i.e. alimony. Being a SAHM is like winning the jackpot when it comes to divorce, and you, the providers, are the big losers.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Because if my ex-wife was actually the woman I thought she was, then I'm able to provide an excellent lifestyle for my two kids and the woman I love. My kids are able to have an excellent life because they are being taken care of 24/7 by a loving parent. I'm remarried with another child and if we were able to monetarily afford it, one of us would have stayed home with him when he was an infant til 3 years old, sadly we couldn't.

The issue of a stay at home parent isn't the problem....it's WHO the person is who's staying home. So no, I won't condemn the notion of stay at home parents because SOME people who do it are screwed up in the head. That's like saying you should close all restaurants because some people eat themselves into obesity and restaurant food is some of the least healthy. You're doing guilt by association.

Also alimony isn't NECESSARILY evil. What happens to the stay at home mom, who gave up her career at 30. Had children, husband becomes super successful, partially due to her staying home so he can dedicate extra time at work, he works 15 years (she's 45 now) and decides he wants to run off with the secretary. Are you saying he has no financial obligation to his wife who was a key component to his success? Now don't get me wrong...alimony is VERY often abused, but sometimes it's correctly handed out as well.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Lon said:


> When I was married my FIL had a collection of guitars that were part of his fathers estate. He doesn't play and they were taking up space so he asked me to take one for myself. I picked a well played, great feeling and great sounding 1968 Gibson southern jumbo. The body was warped, lacquer cracked and discolored and the fretboard was somewhat worn out. Sure enough it was the one his father played the most, so I think he hesitated to give it to me for a moment, but then realized it was probably the best one to give to me because I would play it and take care of it and hand it down to my son.
> 
> Well today, more than 2 years after divorcing my ex tells me her dad wants it back.
> 
> ...


Don't give it back. Tell him his daughter wasn't a virgin on her wedding night.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## pollywog (May 30, 2013)

No they don't realize the pain or don't care. Mine apologized but it was a fake apology IMO


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

pollywog said:


> No they don't realize the pain or don't care. Mine apologized but it was a fake apology IMO


The entitlement built up and lies in order to perform an affair create a teflon like coating to any discomfort or pain in the betrayed spouse.

Some of these cheaters always were completely self centered narcissistic a$$h0les, and you fell for the stench of their charm, not realizing your eating f3c3s. And they never could realize your pain.

Others built up that narcisistic side of themself with the affair, and the teflon coating was provided to protect their own emotions. So they cannot feel the pain they caused until later on in life or if life hands them a similar hand, and they may come to the realization that they hurt someone they love(d)... It's alot of pain in someone who has a conscious.

Some do not have a conscious.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> I have a thought and my aftermath....
> 
> First, the aftermath (I discovered this a few years after the divorce). After her first betrayal my ex and her sister plotted a divorce. Due to an old and rarely used fact of Oregon law (after 20 years of marriage the wife can ask for everything and the judge has to consider it) she continued to betray (at that time only married for 17 years) and we moved from my career job to the city her sister lived in as she (lied) to me it would help "us". Once there she got a job and started saving much of her money away in secret, having her boyfriend, planning, got me to buy and pay off a new car for her... Then after I found out about her bf and ditched her she waited until our 20th anniversary and filed. She was awarded 100% of my 401K (she claimed to pay for medical expenses- which may have been true as she had a couple of surgeries when we were separated), the new car (mine was 20 years old), 75% of the sale of the house and $250/mo in alimony for 2 years (she quit her job by design just before filing). It's amazing how the betrayed have to pay out for the betrayers.
> 
> Now, my thought. We know for a fact that betrayers can never remotely realize the true pain the betrayed suffers. And we can agree that while a very select few actually try, eventually they get tired of humility and contrition (as would be expected) and move on in their mind. But I can think of several people (one on this board- I think she goes by EI or El or something like that) I know from the other board I was a mod at who really make the effort to reconcile and absorb some of the pain to the extent they can and even though most of those marriages fail, I will give them their due. It's only fair to do so. (although my ex was never like that)


Good example of why marriage is not a smart choice for men. Probably more than half of marriages fail. Two thirds of divorces are initiated by women. Of course fewer women are SAHMs, but still if I had a son I would tell him to be really certain before tying the knot. I will tell daughters to be careful, too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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