# Is this physical abuse or...?



## LizLolly (Oct 20, 2011)

During an argument last night which got heated over a small thing such as not closing a window, I got loud and screamed and during the argument, to which H got so offended that he tapped me on my head, resulting in my hair getting flicked...I don't know what this move is called, but it certainly feels extremely offensive to be hit on the head, even though it was not a hard hit. 

I stared at him in disbelief after that, and then he did it again...just to show whose boss, I suppose.

Is this physical abuse? does this happen to others in heated arguments? is it normal and should it be tolereated? everything else about him is alright but he turns into this other person when angry.

Pls advise.


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## kittykat09 (Mar 26, 2012)

I'll probably get slammed for this, but if you were screaming then you were being verbally abusive. It kind of sounds like there are either anger management issues since you were screaming about a window or there is a lot that isn't being shared about the argument. Either way, you both need to learn how to have productive arguments and develop some conflict resolution skills.

Screaming at him is abusive, him responding physically was potentially abusive since there should have been no physical response.

End result: You both need to fix it but screaming is far more hurtful than tapping someone on the head.


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## River1977 (Oct 25, 2010)

No, it is not physical abuse, but he has no business putting his hands on you in any way. You have to tell him in no uncertain terms not to ever do such a thing again. If he does, then yes it will be abuse.

Why did you not see anything wrong with screaming at your husband? You didn't realize you were telling on yourself but didn't hesitate to question what he did. Respect goes both ways. You both need to learn some.


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## River1977 (Oct 25, 2010)

LizLolly said:


> everything else about him is alright but he turns into this other person when angry.


Please explain.


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

Its alright if your one of the 3 Stooges.Sorry.Really though its an attention grabber and I have seen it used before,but that doesn't make it right.You must have been really blowing off some steam.Maybe you both can work on your lines of communications more.


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## LizLolly (Oct 20, 2011)

Thanks for your replies.

I screamed out of panic when the window was opened and flies and dust where billowing in. It was not right but it was just a reaction of panic I think? like "Close it!! close it! what are u doing?!! quick!!"

He got angry that I screamed and we argued and then I get "tapped" on the head twice.

We later talked about the issue and he gets aggressive and when I don't want to talk he forces me to talk but tapping my face and not stopping, until I eventually get angry and have to yell at him to stop. Then during the argument, he looks so angry and I get worried that I'm going to get hit again. I know he doesn't hit me hard, but it still happens, and ... I think he just trying to control me and the situation.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

Wow all for a window? while it's not physical abuse it's a warning sign in my opinion. If he has to convey his anger to you in a physical manner and does it again to reassert his dominance, well it's times like these that you have to nip that behaviour right in the bud before it escalates to something more sinister. 

He'll eventually get accustomed to treating you this way and you're setting yourself up for more than mere taps on the head.


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## kittykat09 (Mar 26, 2012)

LizLolly said:


> During an argument last night which got heated over a small thing such as not closing a window, I got loud and screamed





LizLolly said:


> I screamed out of panic when the window was opened and flies and dust where billowing in. It was not right but it was just a reaction of panic I think? like "Close it!! close it! what are u doing?!! quick!!"


Not adding up for me. I'm a cynical person and it *sounds* like you are editing the situation to play up him being abusive. The first statement sounds like you were arguing, "got loud and screamed" and the second just says that you screamed in panic which would have been *before* the argument started, not during.

Then it turns from being "tapped" on the head and screwing up your hair to being afraid of getting HIT. "I know he doesn't hit me hard..." He shouldn't touch you, but tapping you on the head is NOT the same as hitting.

IMO you would have opened with "he gets angry and I'm afraid of getting hit because he hits me" if he was actually "hitting" you. If he was "hitting" you then you would not be asking us if he was being physically abusive, you would know.

Not. Adding. Up.


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## River1977 (Oct 25, 2010)

LizLolly said:


> I screamed out of panic when the window was opened and flies and dust where billowing in. It was not right but *it was just a reaction of panic I think? like "Close it!! close it! what are u doing?!! quick!!"*
> 
> We later talked about the issue and he gets aggressive and when I don't want to talk he forces me to talk but tapping my face and not stopping, until I eventually get angry and have to yell at him to stop. Then during the argument, he looks so angry and I get worried that I'm going to get hit again. I know he doesn't hit me hard, but it still happens, and ... I think he just trying to control me and the situation.


You both should hurry up and get into marriage counseling. Please take that suggestion very seriously, or this situation will get much worse. 

You and your husband need to learn communication skills, which counseling will help with. You, yourself, gave us no indication of what actually happened. All you said was you "got loud and screamed." Naturally, we would think you were screaming at your husband during an argument, which is not what happened as you later explained. Your husband, on the other hand, is controlling, which is abusive and disrespectful. You didn't explain this either. Please explain things better to the counselor so s/he has the full picture of what you are trying to express.


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## River1977 (Oct 25, 2010)

Yes, I agree with KityKat. Either you have terrible communication skills or you are skewing the facts in attempt to manipulate us so we will agree with you.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

LizLolly said:


> *We later talked about the issue and he gets aggressive and when I don't want to talk he forces me to talk but tapping my face and not stopping, until I eventually get angry and have to yell at him to stop. Then during the argument, he looks so angry and I get worried that I'm going to get hit again*. I know he doesn't hit me hard, but it still happens, and ... I think he just trying to control me and the situation.


Liz, this man is physically abusive. The fact you're starting to fear your husband should be a massive red flag.


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## kittykat09 (Mar 26, 2012)

Complexity said:


> Liz, this man is physically abusive. The fact you're starting to fear your husband should be a massive red flag.


The gal is making it up. In the first post, he touches her and screws up her hair. In her second post, she says he hits her. 

Logic time. If he DOES hit her, why is the thread entitled "Is this physical abuse or...?" ? If he DOES hit her like she claims, then she KNOWS and wouldn't be asking us if he is physically abusive.

Therefore...

She was "tapped" by her husband, we called her verbally abusive, so she came back and claims he "hits" her now. 

I call BullSh*t.


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## desert-rose (Aug 16, 2011)

That's an anger management and aggression problem. Abuse implies he's got power over you and that physical aggression is tied into that power struggle. It's a word that gets thrown around a lot. But, it will be easier for you to solve the problem if you are treating it as an anger, respect, and conflict management issue. Unless there's a pattern in there which involves control and exploitation.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

kittykat09 said:


> The gal is making it up. In the first post, he touches her and screws up her hair. In her second post, she says he hits her.
> 
> Logic time. If he DOES hit her, why is the thread entitled "Is this physical abuse or...?" ? If he DOES hit her like she claims, then she KNOWS and wouldn't be asking us if he is physically abusive.
> 
> ...


If by tapping she means he uses his finger to push her forehead back which made her hair flick back also then it's the same thing. She isn't really verbally abusive, this is verbal abuse kitty. If every time a spouse gets in a argument and the both of them start yelling at each other then we'd all be verbally abusive.


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## kittykat09 (Mar 26, 2012)

Complexity said:


> If by tapping she means he uses his finger to push her forehead back which made her hair flick back also then it's the same thing. She isn't really verbally abusive, this is verbal abuse kitty. If every time a spouse gets in a argument and the both of them start yelling at each other then we'd all be verbally abusive.


It is not the same as hitting. He should not have touched her, but now she is exaggerating to get the response she wants. If he hits her, she would have stated in the OP "he hits me" and wouldn't be asking IF he was physically abusive.

And screaming IS verbally abusive. I don't scream when I'm in an argument. I have never once screamed at any of my exes or my fiance. So don't say "we'd all be verbally abusive" because "we" aren't.

She is screaming at her husband because a window was opened. We have no idea *what* she was screaming so you *cannot* state with confidence that "she isn't really verbally abusive." She probably said some incredibly nasty and abusive things to him, just a guess. Most people don't scream "OMG THE WINDOW IS OPEN AND I LOVE YOU SO MUCH!"


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## LizLolly (Oct 20, 2011)

kittykat09 said:


> The gal is making it up. In the first post, he touches her and screws up her hair. In her second post, she says he hits her.
> 
> Logic time. If he DOES hit her, why is the thread entitled "Is this physical abuse or...?" ? If he DOES hit her like she claims, then she KNOWS and wouldn't be asking us if he is physically abusive.
> 
> ...


It is hurtful to be called a liar. I am genuinely in need of opinion and help. If I haven't explained myself clearly, then I apologise. But there is a bit of back story which I hope I didn't need to go into, because my question applied to the actual incident which happened last night.

The question was titled "is it physical abuse?" because it is a question I am asking in relation to last nights incident, because I do not know. Tapping on the head in anger.....is this considered physical abuse? Because it was not a hard hit but it made an impact emotionally. It felt extremely disrespectful and it happened twice.

The argument started with me screaming about the window and then him screaming at me not to scream and back and forth. That is the argument.

When I refer to "hit" I am referring to past arguments where I have been hit and kicked. That I know is physical abuse. He has promised not to do it again and now "this" occurs....so I just wanted to know....is the incident last night considered "physical abuse"


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

kittykat09 said:


> It is not the same as hitting. He should not have touched her, but now she is exaggerating to get the response she wants. If he hits her, she would have stated in the OP "he hits me" and wouldn't be asking IF he was physically abusive.
> 
> And screaming IS verbally abusive. I don't scream when I'm in an argument. I have never once screamed at any of my exes or my fiance. So don't say "we'd all be verbally abusive" because "we" aren't.
> 
> She is screaming at her husband because a window was opened. We have no idea *what* she was screaming. She probably said some incredibly nasty and abusive things to him, just a guess. Most people don't scream "OMG THE WINDOW IS OPEN AND I LOVE YOU SO MUCH!"


Listen, I don't know the full extent of the story and I wasn't there when it happened but she has no reason to fish for a response that she would like. She came here looking for help, that's all. She's genuinely bemused as to whether her husband putting his hands on her is physical abuse or not. 

But to all concerned, when you apply physical force to coerce someone to do a desired action, that's physical abuse. Men who do this typically have a deep controlling nature to them which I sense her husband has, amongst other things.

For some reason I just don't see Liz as a verbally abusive individual or her husband as this quivering puppy you're making him out to be. I see it in opposite terms to be honest. If you're trying to be pedantic then maybe what she said was verbally "abusive" but let's get real here, telling him to close the window in brash manner isn't verbal abuse.. ...And yes every one yells at someone, if you consider that verbal abuse then you need to get your definitions straightened out in my opinion.

Liz I feel sorry for you. I know how those taps on the head feel, they don't hurt physically but the emotional side is where it impacts. He's an abusive individual and you really need to convey to him that he under no circumstances is allowed to touch you. Period.


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## kittykat09 (Mar 26, 2012)

Complexity said:


> Listen, I don't know the full extent of the story and I wasn't there when it happened but she has no reason to fish for a response that she would like. She came here looking for help, that's all. She's genuinely bemused as to whether her husband putting his hands on her is physical abuse or not.
> 
> But to all concerned, when you apply physical force to coerce someone to do a desired action, that's physical abuse. Men who do this typically have a deep controlling nature to them which I sense her husband has, amongst other things.
> 
> For some reason I just don't see Liz as a verbally abusive individual or her husband as this quivering puppy you're making him out to be. If you're trying to be pedantic then maybe what she said was verbally "abusive" but let's get real here, telling him to close the window in brash manner isn't verbal abuse.. ...And yes every one yells at someone, if you consider that verbal abuse then you need to get your definitions straightened out imo.


If you read my original response, I did tell her it was potentially physically abusive and that he should not have touched her. Feel free to exaggerate, though. I have not made him out to be a good person (and certainly not a "quivering puppy"), I have just said that her version of events is bass-ackwards and makes no logical sense. It speaks heavily of editing to garner sympathy.

As for motivation to exaggerate? You are doing it yourself while arguing against my assessment of the changing story, and it isn't even about you. I have not once stated the husband was right, is weak, or was NOT abusive. Instead of using logic to discredit an argument based solely on logic, you use feelings and call me pedantic. 

1. Since you "just don't see" this gal could possibly be verbally abusive, she isn't. 
2. The OP is "genuinely bemused." You know this because she has said so, even though she changed her story when the responses weren't what she was looking for. 
3. I'm "making him out" to be a "quivering puppy" even though I repeatedly stated he should not have touched her.
4. I'm "pedantic" and "need to get real" as well as "get [my] definitions straightened out" because yelling at people is, apparently, not verbal abuse even though you don't know what was said in order to be able to assess that it *wasn't* abusive.
5. "Everyone yells at someone." I have already stated that is not true. I'm not perfect, in fact I am a cynical jerk, but I don't yell at people. Even if you don't believe me, do you think the Dalai Lama yells at people? No? I believe he is a person and therefore qualifies as someone. 

The conversation very well could have started with "FFS CLOSE THE WINDOW! WHY THE EFF WOULD YOU OPEN IT?! ARE YOU EFFING STUPID?!?!" You don't know, I don't know. 

All I know is after being accused of sounding verbally abusive, she started telling us that he hits her. After I said I call BS, he has apparently kicked her, too. The story keeps changing and is not logical. 

I also don't get why you would ever scream at someone who is physically abusive, ever. Not to say getting hit would be "deserved," just that it seems like a really dumb thing to do.

That said...

To the OP, if he honestly ever has hit and kicked you, FFS get out. Physical abusers don't change. Why would you even worry about getting tapped if you have been hit by him? You should be long gone.

ETA: Bowing out of this thread, there is no possible way to "win." If I'm right, there is no way anyone will admit to lying ad I am a terrible person. If I'm wrong then a woman is in a physically abusive relationship and hasn't left yet (and I'm a terrible person).


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

OP I get what you're saying I think. He used to hit/kick you and has replaced it with these taps or flicks and you're wondering if he's still abusing you? Right? My opinion - yes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LizLolly (Oct 20, 2011)

golfergirl said:


> OP I get what you're saying I think. He used to hit/kick you and has replaced it with these taps or flicks and you're wondering if he's still abusing you? Right? My opinion - yes.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, that is what I wanted others opinions on, that was it.

Because before I make any move, I want to know is this something very wrong and not normal? Before I speak to someone about it, I wanted to know "Am I wrong?". Yes, I did scream when I argue (I know that's wrong), but I feel no matter what, the man should not put his hand on me in any way. He can scream back at me if he has to, but not touch me, that's what I think. Of course, screaming isn't good but I mean, when in an argument, things can happen...

To- Kittycat, I only mentioned the past hitting and kicking because you called me a liar and asked why did my post start off with flicking then turned to hitting. So I went on to explain. Otherwise, I wouldn't like to go through writing that.


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## Love Song (Jan 16, 2012)

What I got from this thread is... 
OP - Do you think this particular situation is physical abuse? 
- She was asked to further explain and she also got posts that clearly showed some were confused on her situation. 
- She than tried to clear things up by giving back story.

I don't feel she changed her story. 

I believe she possibly believed her husband when he said he wouldn't hit (physically abuse) her again and now that this new physical contact comes into play is wondering if this would be considered physical abuse. Maybe she wants to know if she can trust him to not hit her again? But she doesn't know because he has now started tapping her and maybe this will escalate to physical abuse or maybe it is physical abuse. Either way, I do not believe the OP has been lying.


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## Gratitude (Feb 12, 2012)

It does not matter if it's "classified" as physical abuse or not. If it was hurtful to you in any way, then it's not acceptable to you.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

Some people have lower tolerance for vocal abuse.

Screaming at someone (I'm sure you weren't screaming the words "Honey I love you") is disrespectful, violating and actually dangerous.

A human's reaction to vocal and verbal abuse is not always predictable. Not just humans, but animals too.

You abused your husband by screaming at him over something fairly stupid. He felt violated and belittled by your tone and words. In the heat of the moment (while you were screaming) he tapped your head. It's your fault that you drove him to that point over nothing. Someone else might have just stood there and laughed at you, but that doesn't mean your husband should do the same. Everyone's initial reaction to vocal abuse is different.

I challenge you to go to the nearest Mall and scream at different people like you did at your husband. 9 out of 10 people will forcefully push you away while some may actually beat the crap out of you.

If your husband had continued to tap your head or gone mental long after the incident, then yes he would need anger management, but in this particular case, you invoked the anger.

Based on your other posts, I think your husband may actually have resentments that have built up. He may constantly be in fear of being disrespected by his wife. Men don't take that stuff lightly. They will resort to anything (I mean anything) to make sure they are respected. If you don't have enough respect for your husband, you either need to do some serious work to *ALWAYS* respect him or simply divorce him before he employs harmful tactics against your disrespect.

Moral of the story:

Don't scream at people over stupid stuff. Sooner or later you will get a nasty reaction.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

Gratitude said:


> It does not matter if it's "classified" as physical abuse or not. If it was hurtful to you in any way, then it's not acceptable to you.


Of course it matters. People go to jail for physical abuse. No one goes to jail for tapping someone's head after getting screamed at for little things.


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## Gratitude (Feb 12, 2012)

synthetic said:


> Of course it matters. People go to jail for physical abuse. No one goes to jail for tapping someone's head after getting screamed at for little things.


She's not trying to have him arrested. She said he had abused her physically in the past, and wanted to know if him tapping her on the head now is classified as physical abuse.

Whether it is "legally" or not, the point is it made her uncomfortable and she didn't like it. So it doesn't matter what it's classified as. If she didn't like being touched like that she doesn't need to label it to decide whether it's acceptable or not. That's my point. She doesn't need us to tell her it was right or wrong or if it's abuse or not. It was not ok for her.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

kittykat09 said:


> X.


Kitty you seem to have taken me the wrong way. I wasn't exaggerating or minimizing anything you were saying. I was simply conveying a different opinion. Second, I didn't call you pedantic, I said if you want a pedantic definition of what she did then yes it would be termed as verbal abuse. 

To the rest, I don't understand why you think I'm trying to make you out to be this bad or insensitive individual. You didn't come across like that at all, you just had a different opinion to mine and that's the purpose of this site.


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## LizLolly (Oct 20, 2011)

Synthetic- I can agree on the respect issue with men. I do think that is what he reacted on. I know I was wrong in that regard. Thanks for laying that out.


Some points I don't agree on though....




synthetic said:


> It's your fault that you drove him to that point over nothing.


Is the other person always the one to blame if the other uses physical force in any way? Did I "force" that reaction out of him? Aren't people responsible for how they respond in arguments, and why would only I be at fault?





synthetic said:


> Moral of the story:
> 
> Don't scream at people over stupid stuff. Sooner or later you will get a nasty reaction.


So I guess I asked for it right?


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

The fact he has been abusive to you in the past puts a whole new spin on the situation presented in your first post.I think anger management might be a real necessity.Being tapped on the head may be a sign you're pushing to hard on the dam he has built up around his unresolved anger.I would take care for sure and maybe talk about solutions when you are both at your calmest.Don't put it on the back burner.People who physically abuse others don't overcome it by promises and force of will.It takes some serious professional counseling.Please be careful and be safe.


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## Mephisto (Feb 20, 2011)

LizLolly said:


> Synthetic- I can agree on the respect issue with men. I do think that is what he reacted on. I know I was wrong in that regard. Thanks for laying that out.
> 
> 
> Some points I don't agree on though....
> ...


In short, and at the risk of being burnt at the stake here. 

YES......

You instigated a confrontation (over a trivial thing), you escalated it to abuse (of the screaming verbal kind) you continued to escalate when asked to back off, and even when met with like force (he yelled back), he amped it to the next step.

I am not American, but my understanding of American law is that you may counter an attack with one level higher than the antagonist to put a stop to their attack..... if they pull a knife you can shoot them, so to speak. 

How is this different to that?


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## Gratitude (Feb 12, 2012)

I think everyone is jumping on the verbal abuse bandwagon here when no one knows the full extent of the argument. You don't know that she was being verbally abusive and it doesn't justify anyone laying hands on you. He could have walked away. Don't pigeonhole the OP based on very little facts.

The main concern I see here is that he has been physically abusive in the past. So him touching you would have, as it has, created those insecure feelings again. Completely understandable. Tell him under no circumstances is he to touch you especially after your history, and if he doesn't listen and things begin to escalate be aware and don't stay anymore.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

I think you both need help with conflict and anger management. If you don't, the likelihood of breaking your current cycle is slim.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

You stated your husband has hit and kicked you before and that he has promised not to do it again. How many times has he broken his promise?

Your husband has insecurities about certain things. You have managed to find those insecurities and he knows it. There's only 2 ways out of this:

1. He lets go of those insecurities either through professional help or self-reflection (He comes to terms with his short-comings and accepts the human being he is without a care in the world about what you or anyone else thinks about him)

2. You stop exploiting his weakness for your own benefit.


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## Love Song (Jan 16, 2012)

kittykat09 said:


> The gal is making it up. In the first post, he touches her and screws up her hair. In her second post, she says he hits her.
> 
> Logic time. If he DOES hit her, why is the thread entitled "Is this physical abuse or...?" ? If he DOES hit her like she claims, then she KNOWS and wouldn't be asking us if he is physically abusive.
> 
> ...



I am writing this assuming you care to know how your words might impact someone. When someone has been through a trauma and you tell them you don't believe the trauma ever happened it is like putting the victim through that trauma all over again. That's how painful it is. It's hard to understand how that works unless you've been through it. And the impact is stronger coming from people you know and love. But you might want to be careful of the next person you call a liar in regards to a trauma.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Personally I think both the OP and her husband are abusive toward each other.The OP now must realize that she needs to take some action. Whether that be leaving her husband, seeking professional help, whatever. Either way there is no excuse for it to happen again because the problem is now known. Right?


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Abusers do not change because they "promised." He is touching you in anger--does not matter why or how hard. He clearly cannot refrain from getting physical--and yet here you are, playing his game, b/c you are afraid to take the action you said you would take if he "abused" you again. You know he will say, "That's not fair, I just tapped you, I didn't hit you." Really? Is tapping ACCEPTABLE to you? 

You both need more help than this site can provide. Please, get it. Do not get trapped in that VERY childish game, "I didn't hit her hard!" "She hit me harder than I hit her," or screamed, or whatever. 

You are questioning your own judgment, so you need help. If you were yelling and/or screaming and/or name calling during the fight, you need help for that too.

Don't wait for the tap to become a thud.


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## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

It comes off to me that he did the tap arrogantly to put you in your place, since you were screaming on him. Kind of an "If you're going to act like a child, I'll treat you like a child" sort of thing. I could see him just as easily slapping you on your ass to make his point.

I wasn't there, but just based on that description, I didn't get an abuse vibe.


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## ComicBookLady (Feb 28, 2012)

Yes that is physical abuse. Physical abuse is using inappropriate physical contact to hurt, control, or demean you. He obviously meant to control and demean you. My husband "blocks" me from leaving a hostile situation often. He isn't hurting me, but he's controlling the situation with his body. I cannot get past him, I cannot go away from him, he MAKES me be in his presence to continue arguing and that is wrong.

So you tell him it's physical abuse and to stop. he will probably scoff but you need to hold your ground. If he thinks doing that is okay, what's to stop him from taking the next step up?


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## ComicBookLady (Feb 28, 2012)

Oh and I highly disagree with anyone here who says you were screaming, which is verbal abuse, so it makes sense that he physically did something to you.

That is untrue, there is NOTHING you could say to him where you would deserve physical abuse, or make what he did okay, even in this lesser form.


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## Mephisto (Feb 20, 2011)

I take it that is directed at me.... whatever, try walking into a local bar and screaming at a few people, you will sure as hell get a lot worse than a few ruffled feathers. You have to take ownership of your own actions in an altercation.

Not saying what he did was right, nor was how she handled herself, but seriously, just because you are in a relationship with someone, doesn't mean you get a free pass to disregard their personal rights. 

Just because women continue to cry foul about how men hitting them is wrong, so too is women yelling at men, or picking fights with them.


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