# How does your wife apologize



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

When I point out something that darling has done that strikes me as unfair, this is the normal pattern. For instance, when the Lord of Downton Abby almost cheats, my ear got flicked pretty hard. 
Me: Hey, that hurt.
Her: (angry) it should have
Me: what did I do?
Her: you're a man
Me: sheesh

When Abby starts kissing another man on "the firm", I get flicked on the ear again. 
Me: what the hell, SHE is cheating - she's a she
Her: She's kissing a MAN
Me: SHE is married, he is single

Me: I think you owe me something - give you a hint - rhymes with geology
Round 1: (please keep in mind that banter is foreplay for us)
her: what?
Me: you know WHAT
Her: you'll be fine (this is non apology version 1)
Me: the interest rate on non-apologies is currently set at 12 percent 

Non apology version 2 is: let's not split hairs
Version 3: let's move on, I know I have
Version 4: really we're good
Version 5: I accept your humble apology
Version 6: I'm Sorry (said in an irritated voice) meaning: I'm sorry I got caught

The good news is, this is all humorous fitness testing. When pressed she is fully capable of a sincere and unconditional apology.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

I'm embarrassed to actually admit that I considered "What rhymes with geology?" ....*slaps forehead*

I'm not sure I understand your post though.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

If there's been playful banter and teasing (not hurtful) it usually comes in the form of a goofy tone, or occasionally I will call him Batman as a term of endearment. So if it's been silliness, I might say "I'm sorry, Batman" 

If he owes me an apology for silly banter, I might suggest in a more sassy tone "Hey Bruce Wayne! I think you're forgetting something.." which makes him laugh and then he'll say sorry. Usually our silliness doesn't actually require apology though.

For serious matters, I tend to apologize quickly. I'm not one for holding grudges and once I've seen the part I've played and considered his perspective, the apology is there. I feel like I might be missing the point of your thread though.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

I don't apologize unless I mean it, and I won't do it half-assed, either.

Apologies are a massive pet peeve for me... When it's not sincere, it's just a slap in the face...

I don't know you're background, but it seems like your wife is harboring resentment and unleashing it in small doses of irritating behavior and commentary. This would get old FAST, (for me).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

It's only a game on playful stuff. When either of us has truly fvcked up we either volunteer an apology, or we give it when our spouse calls foul. 

I would not stay with someone who is not willing to apologize when they are wrong. Actually you will find in many sexless marriages, the refuser laid the groundwork for stopping sex via behavior outside the bedroom. And one of the first big steps in that direction, is the cessation of apologies. It is a very dominant move - it says: you don't matter enough to warrant an apology, even when I am wrong.

We (my wonderful wife) and I briefly flirted with disaster. I became very passive for about two years and during that time she became steadily more aggressive. Really interesting dynamic actually. At peak this is what happened - and there was nothing funny about it. 
She would do something blatantly wrong, and I would point it out. And her response was "not a problem". 
After about two months I stepped up and said "WTF does (not a problem) mean"?
And then I firmly forced the issue. Within a month that speech pattern disappeared, and "I am sorry" returned. 

Culturally - men born in the 30's and 40's (and earlier) were apology resistant. The pendulum has swung the other way now. 

So it is true that my W and I play this "game" but only because I find it entertaining. Last weekend she was a bit off, and Sunday night without any prompting from me, she sad she was very sorry for being a bltch the whole weekend. 




QUOTE=heartsbeating;784247]If there's been playful banter and teasing (not hurtful) it usually comes in the form of a goofy tone, or occasionally I will call him Batman as a term of endearment. So if it's been silliness, I might say "I'm sorry, Batman" 

If he owes me an apology for silly banter, I might suggest in a more sassy tone "Hey Bruce Wayne! I think you're forgetting something.." which makes him laugh and then he'll say sorry. Usually our silliness doesn't actually require apology though.

For serious matters, I tend to apologize quickly. I'm not one for holding grudges and once I've seen the part I've played and considered his perspective, the apology is there. I feel like I might be missing the point of your thread though.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

If I'm out of character and being picky with him, he calls me on that crap real quick. It might take a moment, a breath, for me to realize he's right and then it's a sincere apology. I suppose same goes from me too. Especially since our reset. Now we're of the mindset of "It's better out than in." Doesn't mean we don't consider one another in the way we communicate but it's about nipping it in the bud then and there. We'd lost our way with that. I questioned whether we ever had it but we had. Thinking back, I recognize even in the very early days of dating, it was there. 

The endearing and goofy apologies are usually not needed. That's playful stuff, it's not hurtful.


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## lonesomegra (Dec 11, 2011)

Because my W says sorry so often for things that are non-existant I find when she does apologise often I regard her words as insincere. Give me actions over words anyday.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Because Me & my husband are so very very close...when one of us is upset with the other, we are both bothered by this terribly......especially if it is more emotionally intense.... a little bit of grouchiness is rather nothing .....we end up joking about it -who pi**ed in your cornflakes, Or I will ask him what the H is wrong with him today.... we don't get offended by stuff like this.... we eventually get over our attitudes (a little humor helps)... might say a word or 2 later about being sorry we were grouchy. He has apologized to me, and I have him - but those aren't even anything significant. Just a bad day, a little ranting going on, little to even do with each other many times. 

But if it gets more intense...more personal....more emotional...... we are near worthless to the world until we "make up" & come together again. 

... Nothing ever lasts more than a few hours with us. It is near non existent for us to go to bed angry....There might have been a couple times in our entire marraige of 22 yrs but very very rare. 

If I start something (yes, generally it is ME!!... I am the unruly one)... I will always go to him and humble myself (as I should)...and I mean it from the heart... many times with tears... knowing I was the bad one, the impatient one, or the one worrying about something that causes me to be in a bad mood....and take it out on him. I never had pms I swear until I hit my 40's, hormones going mad... I can often feel that cloud coming over me. He is very gracious & understanding of me. 

.... Even if I slam a door to get away from him, trying to act all pi**ed off in the moment... I generally can't stay away longer than 20 minutes & end up marching right back to him.... cause I am miserable.....I can see the corner of a  on his face when I do this.... even if he tries to hide it, then I might start laughing...then we are both :rofl: ...softening up to each other....or I might get all mushy telling him how freaking pathetic I am -cause I can't stay away.... but he loves this..... eats that right up. Then we're back in each others arms.... Storm over, the sun is shining again. 

Our fights are generally stupid anyway, so it is always very easy for us to forgive each other. We are both very sensitive...in how the other feels .... but yet very forgiving. 

Thank God or we'd be in a mess!!

My husband thinks one of the biggest problems in marraiges is people are stubborn and can't admit a wrong. We both would agree with this >>>


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

That's a very interesting question, because the way that we apologize (or not) tells a lot about how we view the relative roles in our marriage.

My wife grew up with some very strong feminists in her family. She once admitted that one of the core values that had rubbed off was that a woman should rarely have to apologize to her husband, because it was the same as placing herself at a lower level than him. I don't think that she really saw that in the way her mother and aunts were applying this actually made them aloof, and alone in a couple of cases. But my wife said that she really wanted to break out of this mindset, and focus on a healthy marriage with healthy views about each other.

I began to see that the way we handled conflict, and even apologies, says a lot about how we handle the balance between our own self-interests and the health of the marriage. Although we came close to divorce a couple of years ago, but had great success in working through the issues, I have to admit that I've accepted certain practical assumptions about how good the relationship can really be. If every conflict still includes deflecting blame, or other games we use to avoid really dealing with the issue, or if pride is more important than a happy marriage, then the results speak for themself when it comes to the marriage.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Yin,
For real issues - we both do real apologies.





YinPrincess said:


> I don't apologize unless I mean it, and I won't do it half-assed, either.
> 
> Apologies are a massive pet peeve for me... When it's not sincere, it's just a slap in the face...
> 
> ...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Dog,
How is it progress - for her to have a blatant double standard and openly stick to it? 

This is one reason people cheat. They feel entitled to do something they would not tolerate being done to them.




Good Dog said:


> My wife does not like to apologize at all, ever. Since her EA and basic meltdown at my expense about 18 mos ago, she's had to get used to apologizing at least some of the time though she still resists. This never happened at all before though in our 15 or so years together. Now she's got a new thing though of never apologizing for having double standards for everything, including perceived desire to cheat and related issues. But in a way it's a step forward for us because for years she had those double standards but I was unaware. Then for a time I was aware of them due to her making them obvious for once, but she denied them. Now she admits them but is utterly unapologetic. Oh well, baby steps I guess.


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## descarado (Mar 13, 2012)

i've found that genuine apologies are really, really hard to come by.

a simple, "i'm sorry for doing xxx". i used to hear "i'm sorry you feel that way," which to me is the worst form of passive-aggressiveness.

on a less bad scale, "i'm sorry for doing xxx but YOU need to do yyy or apologize to me as well".

sigh.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

SA,
That is why the two of you are so well matched. 

Being able to see your own role in conflict is really big. 




SimplyAmorous said:


> Because Me & my husband are so very very close...when one of us is upset with the other, we are both bothered by this terribly......especially if it is more emotionally intense.... a little bit of grouchiness is rather nothing .....we end up joking about it -who pi**ed in your cornflakes, Or I will ask him what the H is wrong with him today.... we don't get offended by stuff like this.... we eventually get over our attitudes (a little humor helps)... might say a word or 2 later about being sorry we were grouchy. He has apologized to me, and I have him - but those aren't even anything significant. Just a bad day, a little ranting going on, little to even do with each other many times.
> 
> But if it gets more intense...more personal....more emotional...... we are near worthless to the world until we "make up" & come together again.
> 
> ...


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Apologies are a big deal to me too. When I apologize it's sincere, I mean it and I will take steps to not do it again.

Ultimately I prefer to live my life in a manner that keeps my having to give apologies to a minimum.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Good Dog said:


> I think because though I'm living under that unfair situation, now I know it. You're right that it's not real progress but I was speaking kind of facetiously. The standard remains unfair but I know about it now at least. For years she was afraid I'd cheat, so I thought "Wow, better be careful or her feelings will get hurt" though I never thought of cheating. Just never crossed my mind. But she is like that because she thinks of it a lot apparently. So she ruthlessly enforces these rules about me, though I never need them, but still has excuses for herself today despite everything. Yeah, she's entitled, but now I know it and she knows I know it, which strangely has made my life easier.


Dog,

You've actually said she's an abuse victim. People that should have cared for her didn't - and were actually cold and abusive.

She's easily triggered by fear of being abandoned - like ANYTIME she wishes you were paying attention and you aren't.

Her fear MUST be justified (or else she'd simply have to go to counseling and work on herself) .... so you must be doing SOMETHING.

Blameshifting is the easy road.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

MEM11363 said:


> When I point out something that darling has done that strikes me as unfair, this is the normal pattern. For instance, when the Lord of Downton Abby almost cheats, my ear got flicked pretty hard.
> Me: Hey, that hurt.
> Her: (angry) it should have
> Me: what did I do?
> ...



This just got me laughing... thanks for that MEM. I admit I do let shows get to me like that as well but i don't tell my hubby that it's because he's a man. I just outright say.. YOU better not be doing THAT! Or I'll give him a glare and he's like.. I didn't DO anything!! or.. Babe.. I'm a real man.. unlike.. THAT boy. lol


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Of course I do apoligize if i know I'm wrong about something.. and so does he.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Forgot to add... our apology to one another is not always verbal and sometimes it's alot more action... but it is an apology.


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

she talks for a while and apologizes in a nice way. Just talking and not wanting to hurt feelings and it makes us stronger and love god more and us closer etc. 

so yes she talks a lot


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Good Dog said:


> Oh no, that's not really the case at all. If anything she's been treated like a bit of a princess all her life, which she'll admit herself. I joke about it, but it's led to some real issues for us. Sorry if I misled somewhere.


Yes indeed. The entitled one never needs to apologize because they are always justified (in their own mind). The entitled one is subject to a different (more lenient) standard than regular people.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Good Dog said:


> Oh no, that's not really the case at all. If anything she's been treated like a bit of a princess all her life, which she'll admit herself. I joke about it, but it's led to some real issues for us. Sorry if I misled somewhere.


No alcoholic dad or anything like that?

Adoption?

Divorce?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Good Dog said:


> No, I really mean it when I say she was treated like a princess. One thing that affected her was her dad dying after an illness several years back, which caused us plenty of problems given her grieving. But before that and since she was treated very very well, and that didn't happen until she was in her late 20s. But her general life experience has been one of being catered to in many ways, which I think I've been guilty of playing into myself. So her apologies will come now and then, but always with a sense of "Since you insist, then I'll apologize, but I don't like it."


Thanks for the clarification


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

And I thought that love meant never having to say that you're sorry. Wow, that dates me!


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Good Dog said:


> I agree she's entitled. It's been a major issue between us, her refusal to even acknowledge let alone apologize for doing something. Even just after her EA, when I was just destroyed and she was emotionally abusing me, she told me it was my job to just carry on so I can provide. I was having trouble getting out of bed, she was saying it's my job as a man to carry on. Now she's nothing like that now, but certainly she feels justified at some deep level to do what she wants. My worry now is the newer, nicer her is a facade, though I think she's changed at some level also. But still the trouble with apologies to this day, despite everything!


This is most likely the result of childhood experiences and can be perpetuated though acceptance of mistaken belief systems. I had the same thing and still do to some extent.


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## Good Dog (Mar 28, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Thanks for the clarification


Yeah, I guess it doesn't help much for understanding anything, but I think it plays into the issue of how she apologizes, if she has to. Now for me, I still do the standard husband "apologize first just to get it over with" move, then think later if I should have or not.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Conrad said:


> No alcoholic dad or anything like that?
> 
> Adoption?
> 
> Divorce?


Yes, the op describes a pattern associated with a dysfunctional father daughter-relationship. It can even pass through multiple generations with mother-daughter modeling.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

lovesherman said:


> And I thought that love meant never having to say that you're sorry. Wow, that dates me!


lol well if one shows it.. thats even better then saying it imo.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

Gaia said:


> lol well if one shows it.. thats even better then saying it imo.


It's a line from a horrible, pathetic movie from the '70s called Love Story.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

We don't fight like a handful of times a year. Most people wouldn't call it a fight more like we just disagree on a topic.

We both will get a little quiet then one of us apologizes or says "I really didn't want to fight about XXXX. I'm sorry I didn't see your point and was being arrogant etc etc" 

Normally the other says the same and it's over. I think 3 actually raise your voice fights in 15 years now!!


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

lovesherman said:


> It's a line from a horrible, pathetic movie from the '70s called Love Story.


 what would that line be?


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## grenville (Sep 21, 2011)

Q: How does your wife apologize
A: Very rarely


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

Right there with you guys, and usually followed up by how I'm wrong to be bothered by whatever it was. Meh.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Halien said:


> That's a very interesting question, because the way that we apologize (or not) tells a lot about how we view the relative roles in our marriage.
> 
> My wife grew up with some very strong feminists in her family. She once admitted that one of the core values that had rubbed off was that a woman should rarely have to apologize to her husband, because it was the same as placing herself at a lower level than him. I don't think that she really saw that in the way her mother and aunts were applying this actually made them aloof, and alone in a couple of cases. But my wife said that she really wanted to break out of this mindset, and focus on a healthy marriage with healthy views about each other.
> 
> I began to see that the way we handled conflict, and even apologies, says a lot about how we handle the balance between our own self-interests and the health of the marriage. Although we came close to divorce a couple of years ago, but had great success in working through the issues, I have to admit that I've accepted certain practical assumptions about how good the relationship can really be. If every conflict still includes deflecting blame, or other games we use to avoid really dealing with the issue, or if pride is more important than a happy marriage, then the results speak for themself when it comes to the marriage.


I was thinking about this thread... as I often do afterwards... and like most things, I think apologizing and how these things are handled most certainly stem from childhood and perhaps cultural background too. 

Hopefully as adults we're aware that we don't have to keep patterns that we have developed as children but still, it got me thinking. As a child, I apologized through writing when I felt I was in the wrong, or if I felt my behavior had caused hurt in some way. I used to pretend the mailman had been "Look! There's a letter for you.." and I'd wait for my parents or brother to pick up the letter and read my apology. I even remember one time, after playing up, my mom was affectionately laughing and saying "I have a feeling the mailman is going to deliver a letter soon.." I once told my brother the mailman had been, but my brother refused to collect my letter. Now that I really reflect on that, I remember how upset I felt that he was so annoyed with me that he wouldn't even get the note. But that moment (as a child) forced me to have to verbally apologize to him instead. The balance for me has been learning to stand by my own feelings/opinions and realizing that disagreements can be healthy. 

And the flip-side: when my H and I were first together, he was the passive aggressive as someone else mentioned here. The "I'm sorry you feel that way.." It used to frustrate the heck out of me. I knew it was passive aggressive. I also understand why he learned these defense mechanisms through his childhood too. He will apologize now and directly take responsibility for his actions/words. 

It's all a learning process. Or rather an un-learning process.

Actions are most certainly important. Words speak to me though, as I value hearing the acknowledgement and validation from another. And it's important for me to express that too, with apology. If the words aren't coupled with different behaviors or actions to follow, well, then it's just talk for talk's sake.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Gaia,
I smiled when I read this. Monday night my W and I got in bed. She was a little upset and mentioned a few things that happened over the weekend where she felt I was a bit harsh with her. She was mostly right, though in a couple cases her depiction of events left out her part in initially stirring the pot. 

I apologized where I felt I was in the wrong and gave her some grief about her part of it. 

We went to sleep - not totally satisfied with each others responses which is somewhat rare. 

She woke me up Tuesday morning and asked "are you mad at me about last night"? I am barely awake enough to speak so I just shook my head no. And she proceeded to slide down and rock my world. 

Sometimes an oral apology is different than a verbal apology. 




Gaia said:


> Forgot to add... our apology to one another is not always verbal and sometimes it's alot more action... but it is an apology.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Dog,
You cannot feed the beast and then claim to be surprised when it grows. My guess is you have a broad based pattern of subtle behaviors that reinforce the idea that YOU don't matter very much. I am not saying you don't stand up for yourself. I am saying that you have created an overall context where much of how you react to her reinforces her sense that you are mainly important in terms of what you do for her. 

The reason blowjobs stop in relationships is that the male and his desires have been steadily deprioritized to the point where the moments where it is "all about him" completely disappear. 




Good Dog said:


> Yeah, I guess it doesn't help much for understanding anything, but I think it plays into the issue of how she apologizes, if she has to. Now for me, I still do the standard husband "apologize first just to get it over with" move, then think later if I should have or not.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

If I do or don't do something that hurts my husband I aplologise immediately and sincerely because I can't bear that he would be in pain because of me. 

I would never ever hurt him deliberately, but I have sometimes through carelessness, thoughtlessness and poor communication. I will never stop being sorry that I withdrew from our marriage so catastrophically after our first baby was born. I can't keep saying sorry over and over again, that would just burden him with the pressure to make me feel better by forgiving me. All I can do is continue to show him how much I love and value him every day through my actions and attitude. Words don't mean anything much after a while.

I can't comment on situations as described in the OP. We don't niggle at each other like that and I can't imagine flicking my husband's ear and getting pre-emptively angry over fictional people cheating. It seems really disrespectful, as well as completely unreasonable.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Hearts,
I actually think the most important thing - is what you mentioned below: Next time this happens I will make more effort to do "....." better. That future commitment and follow through matters most. 






heartsbeating said:


> I was thinking about this thread... as I often do afterwards... and like most things, I think apologizing and how these things are handled most certainly stem from childhood and perhaps cultural background too.
> 
> Hopefully as adults we're aware that we don't have to keep patterns that we have developed as children but still, it got me thinking. As a child, I apologized through writing when I felt I was in the wrong, or if I felt my behavior had caused hurt in some way. I used to pretend the mailman had been "Look! There's a letter for you.." and I'd wait for my parents or brother to pick up the letter and read my apology. I even remember one time, after playing up, my mom was affectionately laughing and saying "I have a feeling the mailman is going to deliver a letter soon.." I once told my brother the mailman had been, but my brother refused to collect my letter. Now that I really reflect on that, I remember how upset I felt that he was so annoyed with me that he wouldn't even get the note. But that moment (as a child) forced me to have to verbally apologize to him instead. The balance for me has been learning to stand by my own feelings/opinions and realizing that disagreements can be healthy.
> 
> ...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

As a reflection of constructive engagement, and good temper control, that is really impressive. 

We are good about volume control and nasty tone - those are rare. But - we squabble way more than you do. It is half me. 





OhGeesh said:


> We don't fight like a handful of times a year. Most people wouldn't call it a fight more like we just disagree on a topic.
> 
> We both will get a little quiet then one of us apologizes or says "I really didn't want to fight about XXXX. I'm sorry I didn't see your point and was being arrogant etc etc"
> 
> Normally the other says the same and it's over. I think 3 actually raise your voice fights in 15 years now!!


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Apologize???? Wives can do that???? How does that work?? But that would mean they believed they did something wrong! I guess it's like a unicorn. You hear about them. They sound strange, but you'll never see one.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Un,
Very funny - I am actually laughing right now. 

I truly love my wife. REALLY love her. Look at her in bed at night and think - God I really love you. 

That said, when my edge disappeared, she truly attempted to move to a "100 percent non-apology" mode for bad behavior. She did that by using the phrase "not a problem" when I would call her out on something. WTF. What does THAT mean. 

If you have a boundary pushing spouse (and I do) who behaves badly on a regular basis (at least 2-3 times a month) and you allow them to go into "non-apology" mode, you will soon find that same "you are not apology-worthy" mindset propagating itself throughout the marriage. Ultimately it reaches into the bedroom with highly predictable and utterly disasterous results. 

My boundaries are simple, well defined, and limited to stuff that REALLY MATTERS to me. If my wife could not respect them, and/or apologize for violating them, step one would be the cessation of all conversation.



unbelievable said:


> Apologize???? Wives can do that???? How does that work?? But that would mean they believed they did something wrong! I guess it's like a unicorn. You hear about them. They sound strange, but you'll never see one.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

heartsbeating said:


> As a child, I apologized through writing when I felt I was in the wrong, or if I felt my behavior had caused hurt in some way.


 I would do this too (always the writer!)...though I would *not* always send mine....I rarely sent one through the mail but would hand it to them in person. Writing has always helped me get a handle on my *deep emotions *-just expressing on paper was like a bridge to the other side... ...giving me clear direction on how to effect a "heartfelt" resolving on MY END. 

After all that is all we can truly offer... and hopefully they will feel we are genuine .....we can only offer "ourselves".









Sometimes when I got that pen in my hand....these letters might start off shamefully sarcastic as I was speaking how angry I WAS in the feud.... but as I wrote this out in fury....It was like a releasing of all of that....dealing with it....sometimes I would laugh at how nasty I can be ...I write pretty good when I am pi**ed. Then redo the whole darn thing with a humbler spirit ... but I had to mean it....or I would never give it.

I am the type my conscience will bother me to the high heavens if I don't attempt to resolve a relationship issue with someone I am close too. *To me, the risk of a rejection is always worth it.* 

How to Write an Apology Letter

How to Handle Negative Emotions

....A peice of that article touching on the writing aspect >>>>


> Don't forget the power of the written word. Take time to sit down and write out what you are feeling. Any way that you are able to clarify your emotions is good. In the heat of emotion, most of us have thoughts rumbling through our brains. Writing them down can bring clarity and, more importantly, release. If someone else is involved, try writing a letter or postcard to that person. Then tear it up.


 I learned through reading how important an honest humble confrontatioin IS.....this has always come rather easy to me....I realize someone has to open the dialog...it will always hurt if they choose to ignore that ..push you away....tell you to leave & not come back....even excrusiatingly... (like with friends)....but you will know you gave it your best shot, and somehow there is PEACE in that....... Can't say I have EVER lost a friend though...when I have taken this route to resolve !  I have avoided a few friend trainwrecks where they might have cut me off, due to something I said. My mouth is not perfect. 


... Marraige is more tricky obviously. I have just been blessed with a man, although passive... so long as you go to him and talk... he has NEVER been Passive aggressive...pushing me aside or acting like he doesn't care.... he will speak the truth and deal with whatever needs dealt with. What a blessing in life and marraige! 



> Actions are most certainly important. Words speak to me though, as I value hearing the acknowledgement and validation from another. And it's important for me to express that too, with apology. If the words aren't coupled with different behaviors or actions to follow, well, then it's just talk for talk's sake.


Very very true. I feel exactly the same!

I think many of us can stand to buy some of these .... can you think of a better ice breaker, I can't imagine anyone not chucking a  over someone standing there with one of these in their hands!


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

MEM11363 said:


> Sometimes an oral apology is different than a verbal apology.


Oh yeah.. for us, Make up sex is the icing on the apology, My husband has even accused me of fighting -just for this purpose a # of times...but with a half grin anyway....he is completely & utterly out for the count until he feels "loved" again... I hope he doesn't really believe that [email protected]#$%^ I can't say it is true.... but I must admit... I DO LOVE the endings!


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## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

I dunno- I get the feeling that, when my SO apologizes, it's because that's what she thinks I want to hear as opposed to a sincere need to express being sorry.


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## Santa (May 31, 2012)

Bascially mine doesnt.. Maybe a handfull of times if ever and if she does its, "yeah well sorry"...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Dog,
Take a look.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/27179-boundary-testing-handbook.html




Good Dog said:


> I can't deny this has become the pattern. It became less so once the sh-- hit the fan after her EA and the other stuff, when I basically told her how out of balance everything has been. Your distinction is right because the overall context is the problem though I've always stood up for myself. I do better on all this now and she's tried to respond, but there's always that tendency to backslide. Whether she apologizes or not, even when she's blatantly in the wrong, has a lot to do with that I realize now.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Dog,
A BIG part of the reason my wife loves me romantically/passionately/sexually is because I play this test/respond game with her so well. This mischief that she makes is core to her personality. Honestly, I could shut it down. But in doing so, I would kill a big part of what makes her spontaneous and fun and sexy - to ME.

Instead of being heavy handed and self righteous, I choose to be playfully aggressive. 

Remeber this scenario in highschool. You are hitting on some girl by being nice and complimentary. This other guy comes up and starts making fun of her in a clever way. She is saying to him "you are such a JERK" but she is smiling. Next thing the two of THEM are going for a walk. 

Thats us - though 90/10 she is the aggressor. Fine by me. 





Good Dog said:


> Thanks for that link. I'll take some time to study up on that because you have so much info on there I can use. I think my wife sees testing boundaries as part of romance so it'll be tough to change things but I know it can work.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

I am highly averse to the term whipped. I am also not inclined to lie. It is not possible for me to remain angry at my W after she gives me an endorphine bath. Not even a little angry. Nothing. 





SimplyAmorous said:


> Oh yeah.. for us, Make up sex is the icing on the apology, My husband has even accused me of fighting -just for this purpose a # of times...but with a half grin anyway....he is completely & utterly out for the count until he feels "loved" again... I hope he doesn't really believe that [email protected]#$%^ I can't say it is true.... but I must admit... I DO LOVE the endings!


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Dog,
Sorry about the EA. That is tough. Just curious, have you ever tried a more aggressive/dominant/maybe even a bit rough, approach with her physically?

Have you ever tested her? Playfully. For me, starting to hand her the remote control and then saying - oh I forgot - there is a football game on, lets watch that. And as I go to change the channel she tries to take the remote from me. And then we are "on". 

If you can provoke wrestling on the bed - it is hot. 




Good Dog said:


> I like this point of view, because you're right that it's easy to fall into the whole self-righteousness trap. I think my wife is inherently this way too, always wanting to test. I used to handle it well, but her emotional abuse after her EA just put me in a downward spiral. I know it can't stay that way and I have to get back on an even keel, but it's taking time so I need to work methodically I think. Getting my head in the right place, like you said with the playful stuff, will help a lot.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Do you do a "guys night out"? 





Good Dog said:


> Thanks. Yes, I've tried that because she definitely wanted that. She does like the rough stuff. I test her a lot as well. I think our problem stems from those times when both of us lost sight of needing to do those things and that time around she messed up with the EA and emotional abuse. I lost work and her respect at the same time. So now things are back on track in terms of what to do and how to act, but I'm still struggling with regaining my confidence, rebuilding my ego (she really took it down to the ground level), and then doing the whole "be confident, be dominant with her and keep your boundaries" thing with her while recovering from that. It's really not easy as I'm finding out 18 months on, especially when she kept up the attack and then denied everything for a lot of that (really she's been working on fixing things for 6 months tops). The occasional trigger event, like her doing a night out with the girls after changing into a boob shirt a few nights ago, and I fall back down a bit.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Dog,
You know the drill. There are a lot of guys here who describe a situation where their wives come home and get on the computer to play facebook, farmland, etc. My suggestion for them is twofold:
- Find a sport/game the two of you can play, where you are evenly matched enough to make it fun for her. 

For us - we go in spurts. Right now we are playing tennis almost every night that I am not away for biz travel. Great exercise and more important a fun (we both play hard - but with a sense of humor. 

Could be a board game - it needs to be skill based - as the light competition can be a type of foreplay. 

On the nights your W does NOT want to do stuff - like that - if she wants to play on the computer or watch tv by herself:
- You should go out - and do something: join a gym/tennis league/softball league/etc. 

The KEY is that on those nights she doesn't want to interact with you - just wants to facebook it/play on her PC - you go OUT. Ideally out does not involve bars/drinking or other women. 

In this way you constructively assert your independence. If she asks to join you - you say "sure, would love for you to come". And make sure she feels welcome - and while there show her enough attention so that she is

This strategy has two simple components:
- You up your behavioral attractiveness through independence. 
- You Keep your affect - pleasant/playful a bit aggressive in your intensity when competing - but it is a game - so you are a great sport. Your reaction should be based on who well you/she are playing - banter for when someone blows a shot - you included. And a lite cheer when either of you make a great play. 

If you cut way back on the lovebusters including mocking her - when she is out of control, and you ramp up the positive interactions, good things will happen between you. 

As for showering, if it was me, i would do it every night. 





Good Dog said:


> Ha, I was just saying on another thread that I don't have friends here yet. We moved after her EA to her hometown for financial reasons mostly, but it helped to get her away from her "friends" who knew of the EA and told me publicly about it later. She also was working with OM and had the attention of her boss and her boss's boss too, so anyway we moved. I can't do a guy's night out yet since I have no friends here yet and work from home for now. But I've often thought I should do more away from home just to get her used to missing me more.


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