# Has my husband got a thing about teens?



## blackraven

Hi this is my first post on here although I do browse through often.

Just wanted some advice/opinions please. Sorry may be a bit long.

Bit of backstory first, about two years ago I found out that husband had searched for 'teen bodies' on a torrent site along with some other stuff (not porn related). He hadn't actually downloaded anything it had just appeared in the search box. Now I know a lot of porn with teen in the title are actually 18+ but can look 16 etc so presumed it was that. I was still a little shocked and when I asked him about it he denied it and said it must be a virus. He later admitted it was him.

Last Christmas we were shopping and as we were getting served I noticed him staring at the girl working on the next checkout about 17/18. After we left the shop I turned to speak to him and he was looking through the shop window at the girl as we walked to the car. I've noticed him doing this in a couple of shops girls being 17/18 or a bit older. Now I know its normal for a man to admire a pretty girl but with it just made me feel uneasy. He's 44 by the way.

Now the main reason why I posted. The other day he got some boxes of stuff from his mates house (lived there about 4 yrs ago) that he's going to sell on ebay. I was sorting through them when I found a black book (there were other paperbacks in there) I flicked through it to see what it was and he'd used it as a diary for 2004, so 8 years ago. It was mainly empty pages with a few entries and I know I shouldn't have (I wish I hadn't!) but I had a look.

Part of one entry was"Found out that sexy young(I'll use the name Sarah) is in fact only nearly 14! Why couldn't she have been 17 I could've coped with that." He was 36 at the time.

Another one couple months later " went up to friends, Sarah was looking as dangerous as ever. She really does not look 14. Its criminal. I'm no pervert but **** she's one cute ,sexy *****"

Am I overeacting feeling shocked that even though he new she was 14 he still thought she was sexy??

I haven't said anything to husband. Should I? Should I forget about it? 

Thank you to anyone who bothered to read it all!


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## ScaredandUnsure

It sounds like your husband is skating real close to crossing some serious lines. I think the knowing that the child is 14, and still gawking at her and lusting after her is a real problem. Just because she "looks" older doesn't mean that she "is older" but he might do something and use that excuse. This is one relationship I wouldn't stay in, actually just reading about people like this makes me want to vomit.


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## Almostrecovered

"teen" porn (or "just turned 18") is huge because there's a huge demand for it

I suppose on an evolutionary scale men prefer young features sexually because it indicates healthy and fertile bodies to spread their seed. I guess the fantasy of taking innocent virtue adds to the thrill (which is silly in regards to the porn because inexperienced women are usually not that good in the sack yet)

that said, the 14 year old diary post is creepy, I guess it was good he wasn't willing to act on it but it shows that he does have a propensity to like them young. It's one thing to see a 14 year old and mistake them for being older but once you know their age, obsessing over them is really not a good thing. 

on the flip side, this is a diary post so it's raw and unfiltered thoughts and emotions. In some ways we all have horrible thoughts but would never act on them. (hell I get violent thoughts at times but I am not a violent person)


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## blackraven

Almostrecovered said:


> "teen" porn (or "just turned 18") is huge because there's a huge demand for it
> 
> on the flip side, this is a diary post so it's raw and unfiltered thoughts and emotions. In some ways we all have horrible thoughts but would never act on them. (hell I get violent thoughts at times but I am not a violent person)


Yes thats what I thought too. I'm not sure to let it go or say something to him?

Thanks for the replies.


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## Plan 9 from OS

I think the majority of porn like Playboy, Penthouse and other magazines like those typically showcase models that are 18-25, so maybe he isn't that far off the mark. What is the age of consent where you guys live? If it's legal to have sex with a 17 year old then that may be his cut off for what he likes. It would make me uneasy to be attracted to anyone 17 and younger at my current age, but some people may not be able to help those feelings especially when you consider how much society tries to steep our kids in sexuality. 

I don't know if you have younger daughters, but have you noticed what type of underwear they sell for girls these days? Bikini cut? Hip Huggers? Boy Shorts? ????? You tell me why girls 12 and under need bikini cut or hip hugger panties? It's no surprise to me that your husband could get fooled into thinking a 14 year old girl looks like she's 17-18 when a lot of the fashion is geared towards making young teens look like tramps.


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## Anomnom

This is pretty disturbing and to be honest I don't know what I would do in the same position but I'd never be able to look at my husband the same way again. Knowing the girl's age and still talking about her in a highly sexual way is just gross. I think he would be horrified if he knew you had read his diary and the fact he initially lied about the internet search, he is unlikely to be honest with you about it if you bring it up..it's not something to be proud of. 

You are not over reacting and you shouldn't forget about it but I don't know about how you would bring it up without him getting majorly defensive about it.


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## blackraven

Age of consent is 16 here. Yes I know what you mean about the clothes etc and no I've got two sons thank goodness so don't have to worry about that!

It just sort of creeps me out, I'd never look at a 14-18 year old boy and think wow sexy.


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## Caribbean Man

In my opinion that is a bad sign,especially for a middle aged man.
Definitely a sign of the " Lolita Urge " or nubile weakness.

The object of a man's sexual desire should be WOMEN not CHILDREN
ANYTHING BELOW 21 is a CHILD IMO.

I tell all of my guy friends,
STAY AWAY FROM " JAIL BAIT" TEENS!

They are nothing but trouble..........

[ Thank goodness I was always attracted to older women.]


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## ScaredandUnsure

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I think the majority of porn like Playboy, Penthouse and other magazines like those typically showcase models that are 18-25, so maybe he isn't that far off the mark. What is the age of consent where you guys live? If it's legal to have sex with a 17 year old then that may be his cut off for what he likes. It would make me uneasy to be attracted to anyone 17 and younger at my current age, but some people may not be able to help those feelings especially when you consider how much society tries to steep our kids in sexuality.
> 
> I don't know if you have younger daughters, but have you noticed what type of underwear they sell for girls these days? Bikini cut? Hip Huggers? Boy Shorts? ????? You tell me why girls 12 and under need bikini cut or hip hugger panties? It's no surprise to me that your husband could get fooled into thinking a 14 year old girl looks like she's 17-18 when a lot of the fashion is geared towards making young teens look like tramps.


That is so true. I usually have to buy my 6 year old shorts made for boys, because the ones made for girls almost always ride up way high, almost into the butt crack. Underwear is one thing, but outside apparel...for toddlers and elementary aged children...does it REALLY have to look like a 6 year old is ready to hit some adult night club? My little girl shouldn't LOOK sexy to anyone until she's like waaaaay older. I even have issues with bikinis before 18.


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## blackraven

On the other side his partner who he'd just split up with in 2004 was 10 years older than him and I'm 2years older. Perhaps its just in his head and I should leave it there?

Making me paranoid already, when we're out Im watching to see if he's looking at any teenagers.


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## Almostrecovered

I will say you've only uncovered 2 isolated incidences years apart, it's not a pattern yet that demonstrates that he is a pedophile or anything dire like that. If he was truly obsessed or sick there would be tons of evidence to point towards it. The question is do you want to attempt to find out by using spy tech? I'm not certain if that's a good idea unless you have some red flags that this is a real problem.


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## blackraven

Yes at least he wrote why wasn't she 17 (legal), which is a relief. I know for a fact he hasn't looked for anything on pc since the last time as our Pc's are next to each other and we use them at the same times. 
I know he wouldn't do anything in real life as it were but sttill makes me feel uneasy.


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## Almostrecovered

how open is your communication? I would talk to him to see how he feels about this fantasy, hopefully it's just one among many typical fantasies. (like him being with 2 women at the same is another common male fantasy)


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## wiigirl

ScaredandUnsure said:


> It sounds like your husband is skating real close to crossing some serious lines. I think the knowing that the child is 14, and still gawking at her and lusting after her is a real problem. Just because she "looks" older doesn't mean that she "is older" but he might do something and use that excuse. This is one relationship I wouldn't stay in, actually just reading about people like this makes me want to vomit.


This....really inappropriate if you ask me...









_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## costa200

The girls age is irrelevant for considerations of attractiveness. We are hardwired to find some traits attractive and there is a damn thing you can do about it. And the guy's age is also irrelevant. A guy in his 40s and a guy in his 20s will still find the same girls attractive. What you find physically attractive doesn't scale with your age. 

Plenty of 14 year old girls look like grown women. In order to evaluate if your husband may have a problem you need to look at this girl and see if she looks like a child or a grown woman. 

Here take a look at this very interesting poster:










Now, show the girl on the poster to 100 men and i'm willing to bet the overwhelming majority of them will consider her beautiful and attractive. Yet, she is... 14 years old!


Yet it is most likely that those 100 men are indeed not pedophiles. They are attracted to certain traits that can show up in sexually mature girls. Our social construct that anyone bellow a certain age is a child that should be assexualized (age limits vary according to countries) is just that... A social construct. Biologically those constraints are ignored.

There isn't a grown man in existence that hasn't found an attractive girl who is underage. In fact i will outright call liar to anyone who claims he never found an underage girl attractive.

Having said that, the overwhelming majority of men don't act on those innate impulses. It is understood that there are a lot of reasons not to. 

Now, what your husband likes regarding porn tastes is not uncommon at all. Heck, just look at erotic pics from magazines. What are those girls other than young? Still in their teens or early 20s?

Take a look here, there is a ranking of keywords searched related to porn:

Internet Pornography Statistics - TopTenREVIEWS

If you add "teen porn" and "teen sex" the subject only loses to "sex", "adult dating", "Adult DVD" and "porn"... That's HUGE given the non descriptive of the more searched tags.

It's the single most searched subject related to porn. 

What makes your case singular is that he actually wrote down in paper what he thought about a 14 year old girl. That's what's uncommon. 




> It just sort of creeps me out, I'd never look at a 14-18 year old boy and think wow sexy.


That's because sexual attractiveness for men peak later. Now you tell that about mid twenties guys...


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## blackraven

I have no idea if this girl looked her age or older at the time and would not be able to find out. I understand what you mean Costa200 about teen porn etc and girls looking older with make up etc. 

I think its the fact he wrote he thought she was cute and sexy when he KNEW she was 14 that is my problem.


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## costa200

blackraven said:


> I have no idea if this girl looked her age or older at the time and would not be able to find out. I understand what you mean Costa200 about teen porn etc and girls looking older with make up etc.
> 
> I think its the fact he wrote he thought she was cute and sexy when he KNEW she was 14 that is my problem.


The fact that he wrote it instead of just thinking it like most guys do is bothering you? Is there a fundamental difference between just thought and a written form?

Your situation is kinda unique, because most women will never know their husbands find a certain underage girl cute.


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## KHC223

Costa your right on the mark, I would never want anyone to know my thoughts that I never have acted on.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

My daughter is 18. If there ever was an older man around starring or flirting at her, I'd be furious!

I do think this is a real big issue if this is what he's doing. 18 and under is dangerously creepy in my opinion. Especially a man who is married.


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## ScaredandUnsure

At what point, though, does it become a concern? If he was leering at 12 year old girls? How about 8 year old girls? When does it cross the point from being "normal and wired that way" to be just flat out creepy and not normal?


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## blackraven

costa200 said:


> Is there a fundamental difference between just thought and a written form


I know what you mean but it seems more real when he's taken the time to write it down. If it had just been the first diary entry about finding out her actual age and saying wow she looks older it wouldn't bother me as much.


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## tryingtobebetter

I am in love with my hubby

I can so relate to you as I am a father with three daughters.

And yet my grandfather when he was 35 met my grandmother when she was 17. Despite opposition they married and were blissfully happy for 41 years until he broke her heart by dying aged 80.

Life is strangely messy sometimes.


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## Almostrecovered

ScaredandUnsure said:


> At what point, though, does it become a concern? If he was leering at 12 year old girls? How about 8 year old girls? When does it cross the point from being "normal and wired that way" to be just flat out creepy and not normal?


he wasn't attracted to child like features, he was attracted to adult features on a child and did not act on it due to her age (and hopefully because he was married) HUGE difference.


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## costa200

You ladies will notice that, with some very honorable exceptions (crazy men like me who don't give a damn) most men will avoid this thread like the plague. And you know why they are doing it. 



> My daughter is 18. If there ever was an older man around starring or flirting at her, I'd be furious!


I would be more furious than you if it was my daughter, because i know what is on his mind 

But than doesn't change the fact that his brain is only acting like its supposed to. There is no biological incentive to exclude sexually mature females just because there is a piece of paper saying they can't be sexualized.


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## Almostrecovered

for argument's sake- let's imagine you are man who watched Traci Lords' movies before it was discovered that she was underage

obviously once uncovered most of the tapes were destroyed, if a person kept the tape and watched it again anyway it would be illegal and creepy and to me a problem, but prior to the discovery are these men creeps? Were the thoughts they had over fantasizing about Traci at the time bad, if a viewer commented that he wished she was 18 because she is hot be creepy?


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## blackraven

Almostrecovered said:


> he wasn't attracted to child like features, he was attracted to adult features on a child and did not act on it due to her age (and hopefully because he was married) HUGE difference.


This was why I was think of not bringing it up. Obviously he didn't do anything because he knew her real age.
He wasn't married at the time although he'd just split up from his 46 year old girlfriend. He seems to have dated women older than himself (his first wife was too).

Maybe I'm blowing it out of proportion. 

Thanks for the replies by the way feel better just writing it down I'd be too embarrassed talking to a friend about it.


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## costa200

ScaredandUnsure said:


> At what point, though, does it become a concern? If he was leering at 12 year old girls? How about 8 year old girls? When does it cross the point from being "normal and wired that way" to be just flat out creepy and not normal?


forget about the age tags. Our brain doesn't evaluate age tags to determine possible sexual partners. If a guy is attracted to a childlike 14 year old he is probably a pedophile. If he is atracted to a 12 year old that looks to bystanders as a grown woman he is not a pedophile in the true sense of the word. 

The age tags are just something we use for legal reasons because we need some sort of more or less subjective limit. Plus, sexual maturity isn't the only issue at hand (although for attractiveness it is) when we consider what is appropriate. 

I've known 16 year olds that were very adult like and i've met people in their 20s that were childlike. It would be very complicated to certify someone for sexual activities based on physical and psychological maturity. So we use age. And that varies tremendously from country to country. In Portugal the age of consent is at 16. Many countries have it at 18, i think japan has it at 12, Spain is 14 i think and according to wikipedia there are some countries where it is above 20.



> I know what you mean but it seems more real when he's taken the time to write it down. If it had just been the first diary entry about finding out her actual age and saying wow she looks older it wouldn't bother me as much.


Well, there is a difference between something we express in society and what it is supposed to be inner thoughts. Your husband, with you by his side could say "wow, she looks older!" when he is really thinking "She is still hot!".

Remember that those things were written as an inner dialogue. Not intended to be revealed. And, as far as you told us, he didn't act on it. 

It's like me looking at a Ferrari on the street and saying "what a beautiful machine" to the owner while i'm thinking "i wish i had the cash to have one of those". It doesn't mean that i'm going to try and carjack the guy at first chance does it?


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## WorkingOnMe

I might write in my diary that I feel like killing puppies. Doesn't mean I will. Shame on you for reading those inner thoughts. Shame on you for judging him for a fleeting thought and ignoring his honorable actions. I suggest you admit your trespass to him and hand over your diary for analysis.


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## Caribbean Man

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> My daughter is 18. If there ever was an older man around starring or flirting at her, I'd be furious!
> 
> *I do think this is a real big issue if this is what he's doing. 18 and under is dangerously creepy in my opinion. Especially a man who is married.*


:iagree:

I DO NOT compromise on that issue.
It is a DANGEROUS TREND to start to rationalize his behaviour.
It will only get WORSE.
Some men say that they find young girls sexually attractive.

I DON'T.

And its not just because they" look" of age....
I could sense their juvenescence just by the way they are dressed, and their comport. 
They crave attention.
Any man who is finds himself hopelessly sexually attracted to such is looking to ruin his life.

Whenever see them ,I see _*somebody's daughter.........*_.
And if it were my daughter,or my niece ,I don't want any old ,married men leering and drooling over her.
I wouldn't mind guys her age fooling around with her,
Certainly not some old man.

He should cease and desist from such behaviour.


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## CandieGirl

blackraven said:


> Hi this is my first post on here although I do browse through often.
> 
> Just wanted some advice/opinions please. Sorry may be a bit long.
> 
> Bit of backstory first, about two years ago I found out that husband had searched for 'teen bodies' on a torrent site along with some other stuff (not porn related). He hadn't actually downloaded anything it had just appeared in the search box. Now I know a lot of porn with teen in the title are actually 18+ but can look 16 etc so presumed it was that. I was still a little shocked and when I asked him about it he denied it and said it must be a virus. He later admitted it was him.
> 
> Last Christmas we were shopping and as we were getting served I noticed him staring at the girl working on the next checkout about 17/18. After we left the shop I turned to speak to him and he was looking through the shop window at the girl as we walked to the car. I've noticed him doing this in a couple of shops girls being 17/18 or a bit older. Now I know its normal for a man to admire a pretty girl but with it just made me feel uneasy. He's 44 by the way.
> 
> Now the main reason why I posted. The other day he got some boxes of stuff from his mates house (lived there about 4 yrs ago) that he's going to sell on ebay. I was sorting through them when I found a black book (there were other paperbacks in there) I flicked through it to see what it was and he'd used it as a diary for 2004, so 8 years ago. It was mainly empty pages with a few entries and I know I shouldn't have (I wish I hadn't!) but I had a look.
> 
> Part of one entry was"Found out that sexy young(I'll use the name Sarah) is in fact only nearly 14! Why couldn't she have been 17 I could've coped with that." He was 36 at the time.
> 
> Another one couple months later " went up to friends, Sarah was looking as dangerous as ever. She really does not look 14. Its criminal. I'm no pervert but **** she's one cute ,sexy *****"
> 
> Am I overeacting feeling shocked that even though he new she was 14 he still thought she was sexy??
> 
> I haven't said anything to husband. Should I? Should I forget about it?
> 
> Thank you to anyone who bothered to read it all!


Sorry, but (some) men should be equipped with some sort of kill-switch! Pisses me right off that life is like that, and it doesn't really matter if 14 year old girls are dressing like they are just gagging to get laid...chances are, they're not looking to do it with 44 (then 36) year old men. GROSSS!!!!!!


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## costa200

> I wouldn't mind guys her age fooling around with her,


If she was my daughter i would... It's my biological part to weed out the weaklings...


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## blackraven

WorkingOnMe said:


> I might write in my diary that I feel like killing puppies. Doesn't mean I will. Shame on you for reading those inner thoughts. Shame on you for judging him for a fleeting thought and ignoring his honorable actions. I suggest you admit your trespass to him and hand over your diary for analysis.


Its not a fleeting thought though is it "teen bodies" and staring at young check out girls too. If I had a diary he'd be more than welcome to read it!


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## Caribbean Man

CandieGirl said:


> *Sorry, but (some) men should be equipped with some sort of kill-switch! Pisses me right off that life is like that, and it doesn't really matter if 14 year old girls are dressing like they are just gagging to get laid...chances are, they're not looking to do it with 44 (then 36) year old men. GROSSS!!!!!! *




There IS a KILL SWITCH in EVERY MAN..........
He just refuses to flip it off.
Every man has he preferences with respect to women and sex, therin lies that " kill switch."

Men do not have sex with their daughters, no matter how " hot " she is or even is they were to see her in varying stages of undress...,which ALL FATHERS do at sometime.
Men do not have sex with their mothers , nor are they sexually attracted to them no matter how much all their friends say she's a hot MILF.........

Life is NOT like that.
Some men are just plain weak and indisclipined.

If they found out the hot , curvy woman in the office who has been hitting on them recently has HIV,they would switch off the " kill switch..."
Yes?


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## CandieGirl

With all due respect, Carib, some men have no control, hence the OPs problem. He's standing close to the edge. He entered in a diary wishing the 14 year old was 17...and that would be OK? Uh, no.

Teen girls are raped every day by men like this. Young girls are lured over the internet. So no, not every man has a kill switch. There are plenty of disgusting pigs out there that act on their impulses. Hopefully for the OP and her husband, it hasn't gone that far...but keeping a diary of hot young teens? IMHO, that's not good. Very bad, in fact. The type of thing you wouldn't want falling into the hands of an employer or law enforcement, that's for sure.

And before anyone jumps to the 'all men have these fleeting thoughts sometimes', that very well may be true; however, not all men jot it down in a frigging diary. Get real! The guy's got problems!


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## ScaredandUnsure

Well I suppose it's okay to be sexually attracted to children, as long as they have adult body parts. 

Funny thing is, if he was writing about a 6 year old he thought was hot, everyone would tell you to run away and fast. But since this child has adult features, it's normal and natural to lust after her.

I don't attach sexual attractiveness to children, no matter the age. I'm not wired that way.


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## blackraven

CandieGirl it wasn't a diary of hot young teens , it was 2 entries one about finding out she was only 14 and the second saying she looks older (but he did know her age by the) and that yes she was cute and sexy. 
I can understand a man thinking wow she looks hot when he thinks she's older but its the fact he still thought she was cute and sexy when he KNEW she was 14.


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## kindi

The only problem I see is with you invading his privacy by reading his personal thoughts.

Now you've got yourself a problem.

I say come clean and tell him you read the diary but you understand those are just his thoughts and you give him credit for not acting on them.

As far as the age thing goes? 14 year old girls who dress sexy are probably already having sex, or are gong to have sex very soon, or are at least experimenting. That's about the average age for sex nowadays, if she's doing it with another teenager then who cares if an older guy checks her out and fantasizes about her? No one gets hurt, and besides, she's not so innocent after all.


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## CandieGirl

blackraven said:


> CandieGirl it wasn't a diary of hot young teens , it was 2 entries one about finding out she was only 14 and the second saying she looks older (but he did know her age by the) and that yes she was cute and sexy.
> I can understand a man thinking wow she looks hot when he thinks she's older but its the fact he still thought she was cute and sexy when he KNEW she was 14.


If you want to make excuses for your husband, go ahead, but I think you're missing the point here. One entry or 50, doesn't matter. I don't care how dolled up a 14 year old is, chances are she's still going to look pretty young. Doesn't it bother you that your husband is so into young girls that he enteres it in a diary, and that you've noticed he checks out young cashiers, etc? Like I said, he's standing pretty close to the edge, IMO.

All the best.


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## costa200

ScaredandUnsure said:


> Well I suppose it's okay to be sexually attracted to children, as long as they have adult body parts.
> 
> Funny thing is, if he was writing about a 6 year old he thought was hot, everyone would tell you to run away and fast. But since this child has adult features, it's normal and natural to lust after her.
> 
> I don't attach sexual attractiveness to children, no matter the age. I'm not wired that way.


First you're using a very particular definition of "children". Second, you're a woman, so your wires are set in a particular way which is not the same as men. 

The reason you find no "children" (using your definition here) sexually attractive is that at that age males haven't normally reached their peak in sexual attractiveness. Nonetheless there are males of 16-17 that you would find attractive, even if you rationalize the whazoo out of it afterwards when you catch yourself, so i'm going to call that bluff.


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## blackraven

CandieGirl said:


> If you want to make excuses for your husband, go ahead, but I think you're missing the point here. One entry or 50, doesn't matter. I don't care how dolled up a 14 year old is, chances are she's still going to look pretty young. Doesn't it bother you that your husband is so into young girls that he enteres it in a diary, and that you've noticed he checks out young cashiers, etc? Like I said, he's standing pretty close to the edge, IMO.
> 
> All the best.


I know, I know and I don't really care about the you shouldn't have snooped its done now. I didnt go looking for it or even knew it was one until I opened the pages and then there was only a few entries months apart. Thats another thing what made it so significant he took the effort of writing it down in a hardly used diary. I've decided to show him the bits I've read and see what he says.

Thanks


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## Caribbean Man

CandieGirl said:


> With all due respect, Carib, some men have no control, hence the OPs problem. He's standing close to the edge. He entered in a diary wishing the 14 year old was 17...and that would be OK? Uh, no.
> 
> Teen girls are raped every day by men like this. Young girls are lured over the internet. So no, not every man has a kill switch. There are plenty of disgusting pigs out there that act on their impulses. Hopefully for the OP and her husband, it hasn't gone that far...but keeping a diary of hot young teens? IMHO, that's not good. Very bad, in fact. The type of thing you wouldn't want falling into the hands of an employer or law enforcement, that's for sure.
> 
> And before anyone jumps to the 'all men have these fleeting thoughts sometimes', that very well may be true; however, not all men jot it down in a frigging diary. Get real! The guy's got problems!


Candiegirl,
We are both on the same page!
All men have that switch, some men prefer to let their baser nature control their sexuality.
I believe that humans are far more advanced than animals. 

Even if what he had was just a " fleeting thought" how does a
" fleeting thought" find its way into a personal diary?
And to make matters worse,his wife has also noticed it FIRST HAND, in their daily life.
She is now confused.
This thing is wrong on so many levels.


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## ScaredandUnsure

costa200 said:


> First you're using a very particular definition of "children". Second, you're a woman, so your wires are set in a particular way which is not the same as men.
> 
> The reason you find no "children" (using your definition here) sexually attractive is that at that age males haven't normally reached their peak in sexual attractiveness. Nonetheless there are males of 16-17 that you would find attractive, even if you rationalize the whazoo out of it afterwards when you catch yourself, so i'm going to call that bluff.


Actually no, I wouldn't find a 16 or 17 year old attractive. Unless for some odd reason he managed to look 30+ yrs old. And I never found out their age. I simply don't find very young men attractive.

And yes, basically I say child, because a 14 year old girl is a child. 

Just how comfortable would you be around a friend who said that your, say 12 yr old daughter, was so hot? Would you be okay with your 12 yr old daughter being around an adult man who thought she was sexually attractive?


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## costa200

> I believe that humans are far more advanced than animals.


AH! An optimist... :smthumbup:


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## ScaredandUnsure

I was under the impression that there was no privacy in a marriage except when you close close the bathroom door. I swear I've read that over and over again on this forum.


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## kindi

ScaredandUnsure said:


> I was under the impression that there was no privacy in a marriage except when you close close the bathroom door. I swear I've read that over and over again on this forum.


You may have read it.

All that means is one or more people have written it.

That doesn't make it fact.

Don't believe everything you read, even if it's on the internet...


----------



## ScaredandUnsure

I don't believe everything I read or on the internet. I'm talking about a pro marriage forum. 

I guess I'm a big fan of "If you don't want anyone else to know, don't write it on paper, because it will be found" 

Well all I have to say is I hope his lust for this person that's underage doesn't get him into any legal troubles. And hopefully their sons can bring home their teenage girlfriends when the time comes without pops being creepy and weird or "accidentallyonpurpose" walking in on them in the bathroom.


----------



## costa200

ScaredandUnsure said:


> Actually no, I wouldn't find a 16 or 17 year old attractive. Unless for some odd reason he managed to look 30+ yrs old. And I never found out their age. I simply don't find very young men attractive.


See, it's only a matter of what he looks and not really his age. The same with young girls. Then thing is that the peak of sexual attractiveness for women isn't 30. It's more like early 20s. So, if a 14 year old manages to look in her early 20s she is attractive. Just like you would find a man that looked 30 attractive.



ScaredandUnsure said:


> And yes, basically I say child, because a 14 year old girl is a child.


In what way? She doesn't look like a child, she doesn't behave like a child... Most 14 year olds these days are pretty much engaging or about to engage in sexual activities. In the past they were considered old enough to marry. In some countries they still are. 

The reason why society insists in looking at teenagers as children is a social construct. If you have a 14 year old and treat her like a child you better expect some nasty surprises down the road. 

Dealing with 14 year olds and about that age every day in my profession and their parents what i see is that they don't have a clue on what a 14 year old actually is. Usually the teen is head and shoulders ahead of what their parents think of them. 

The desire to keep them as children deceives them. They aren't, in any way, physically or psychologically, children. 




ScaredandUnsure said:


> Just how comfortable would you be around a friend who said that your, say 12 yr old daughter, was so hot? Would you be okay with your 12 yr old daughter being around an adult man who thought she was sexually attractive?


You think any sort of man that knew me personally would ever do such a thing? They wouldn't. But that doesn't change the fact that it may be that it is exactly what they are thinking if i have a precocious 12 year old with an adult like body.

Like i said before. Sexual attractiveness doesn't take into account an age tag. This, however doesn't mean that men will actually act upon it. There is a difference between thought and action.

I may think i would like to kill that guy and not actually proceed in doing it.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Communication with the outside world (facebook email etc...) should be open. Communication within your self, your inner thoughts, are private unless you share them. You can't tell me you haven't had thoughts that you don't want your husband to know about.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

For the record, I wouldn't consider being intimate with anyone under the age of 18 and I think the age of consent laws should be 18 across the board since that is officially what we deem to be adulthood. I too think it is creepy for men to be constantly thinking about H.S. girls in sexual ways; however, I can understand how a man can see a girl who is underage but sometimes can't help but look because of the way the girl is dressed. Having said all of that, I'm going to play the Devil's Advocate in the next paragraph.

For the vast majority of human existence, the age for when kids become adults has been below the age of 18. In many cultures and for many centuries, girls under the age of 18 were wed off by their families and have become mothers. Boys also have wed young as well. In the 1800s and earlier, being 14-15 and being married off to an older husband or a boy the same age was not uncommon for a girl. Hell unmarried women that are 20 or older and single today would be considered "spinsters" or "old maids" in the 19th century and earlier. When society change so much to elevate the "age of reason" and the "age of adulthood"? I guess my point is that having some of these feelings are probably natural considering that majority of human history didn't affix such taboos to thinking about 14 - 16 year old girls in sexual ways.

IMO, I don't think your husband is in danger of being a predator of underage girls. It may be unhealthy of him to look at them so much in public, but my guess is that he would never act upon those desires. I think that if you would ever become a mind reader, you would be very, very disappointed in how men think about sex in general when it comes to looking at women.


----------



## costa200

> IMO, I don't think your husband is in danger of being a predator of underage girls. It may be unhealthy of him to look at them so much in public, but my guess is that he would never act upon those desires. I think that if you would ever become a mind reader, you would be very, very disappointed in how men think about sex in general when it comes to looking at women.


And if a guy would become a mind reader he would probably know what to answer when his wife asks him what color of towels does he prefer for the bathroom... Frightening stuff


----------



## ScaredandUnsure

costa200 said:


> See, it's only a matter of what he looks and not really his age. The same with young girls. Then thing is that the peak of sexual attractiveness for women isn't 30. It's more like early 20s. So, if a 14 year old manages to look in her early 20s she is attractive. Just like you would find a man that looked 30 attractive.
> 
> But, not many 16-17 year old boys look like they are their 30's. Hell it seems almost backwards now. I see so many high school kids driving around that look as old as my 12 year old son. And trust me, you wouldn't mistake my 12 year old son for being at the age of consent.
> 
> 
> In what way? She doesn't look like a child, she doesn't behave like a child... Most 14 year olds these days are pretty much engaging or about to engage in sexual activities. In the past they were considered old enough to marry. In some countries they still are.
> 
> The reason why society insists in looking at teenagers as children is a social construct. If you have a 14 year old and treat her like a child you better expect some nasty surprises down the road.
> 
> Dealing with 14 year olds and about that age every day in my profession and their parents what i see is that they don't have a clue on what a 14 year old actually is. Usually the teen is head and shoulders ahead of what their parents think of them.
> 
> The desire to keep them as children deceives them. They aren't, in any way, physically or psychologically, children.
> 
> I realize this from raising my ex husbands daughter. We bought her NO revealing clothing, no g strings, etc. Now that doesn't mean she didn't wear them. And again her behavior was so awful and dangerous, we sent her to a girls home for truancy when she was 16 until 18. That will happen to any of my children who behave like she did.
> 
> 
> You think any sort of man that knew me personally would ever do such a thing? They wouldn't. But that doesn't change the fact that it may be that it is exactly what they are thinking if i have a precocious 12 year old with an adult like body.
> 
> Like i said before. Sexual attractiveness doesn't take into account an age tag. This, however doesn't mean that men will actually act upon it. There is a difference between thought and action.
> 
> Personally, I don't know you or your friends. I was just asking a question about how you would feel if a friend voiced his attraction to you about your underaged daughter. Would you feel comfortable him being around her, or leaving her unattended in his presence?
> 
> I may think i would like to kill that guy and not actually proceed in doing it.


----------



## Hopefull363

Black Raven,

I'm going to point this out since I didn't see it in the others answers. Why is you husband looking at any girl or women in a way that you can see while you are together. That in it's self is very disrespectful. I wouldn't be able to be with my husband if when we went out I would notice him looking at other women. You should address this issue as well.

I agree with the other posters about girls looking older than they are. Your husband did not do anything when he found out her age. A journal is thoughts not reality. I'm so glad to have two boys with the way girls are dressing these days.


----------



## thegatewalker

Caribbean Man said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I DO NOT compromise on that issue.
> It is a DANGEROUS TREND to start to rationalize his behaviour.
> It will only get WORSE.
> Some men say that they find young girls sexually attractive.
> 
> I DON'T.
> 
> And its not just because they" look" of age....
> I could sense their juvenescence just by the way they are dressed, and their comport.
> They crave attention.
> Any man who is finds himself hopelessly sexually attracted to such is looking to ruin his life.
> 
> Whenever see them ,I see _*somebody's daughter.........*_.
> And if it were my daughter,or my niece ,I don't want any old ,married men leering and drooling over her.
> I wouldn't mind guys her age fooling around with her,
> Certainly not some old man.
> 
> He should cease and desist  from such behaviour.


My thoughts exactly
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Caribbean Man

Every person's character is the sum total of their thoughts.
Something is right or wrong not because of the rewards/ consequences , but based on the principle / logic behind it.
Even if our 14 yr old's are having sex,

IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT WE SHOULD TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THEIR STUPIDITY.

You are what you THINK .


----------



## ScaredandUnsure

WorkingOnMe said:


> Communication with the outside world (facebook email etc...) should be open. Communication within your self, your inner thoughts, are private unless you share them. You can't tell me you haven't had thoughts that you don't want your husband to know about.


I'm sure I've had all kinds of thoughts that I wouldn't want people finding out. But again, I don't write them out. You see, my children can read and if the come across something that might be entertaining to read, they may read it. If I don't want it known by other people, it's simply a matter of NOT putting it on paper. I can still think it, and no one else knows about it. I certainly wouldn't put "Gee, I'd like to kill so and so today" because I just don't.


----------



## costa200

> Personally, I don't know you or your friends.


Well, no normal guy would go up to the father of a girl (specially when she is only 12 and he is aware of that) and tell him she is hot... But taking it as an hypothetical situation...



> I was just asking a question about how you would feel if a friend voiced his attraction to you about your underaged daughter. Would you feel comfortable him being around her, or leaving her unattended in his presence?


No... Just like i would not feel comfortable if she was 20 years old. Cuz anyone who does that is a creep. The fact that she was only 12 only added to the injury.

But my attitude is, for all effects, irrelevant for the desires and wants of other men. 

BTW, when you brought this up i immediately thought about this guy:











Which is a very funny character because he is just a man that acts on all his sexual urges.


----------



## ScaredandUnsure

costa200 said:


> Well, no normal guy would go up to the father of a girl (specially when she is only 12 and he is aware of that) and tell him she is hot... But taking it as an hypothetical situation...
> 
> 
> 
> No... Just like i would not feel comfortable if she was 20 years old. Cuz anyone who does that is a creep. The fact that she was only 12 only added to the injury.
> 
> But my attitude is, for all effects, irrelevant for the desires and wants of other men.
> 
> BTW, when you brought this up i immediately thought about this guy:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which is a very funny character because he is just a man that acts on all his sexual urges.


I just like to think that most human beings are decent enough to not to lust after underaged children. I mean there are enough sexy adults in the world to be lusted after, and I guess it just makes me sad that our kids look older it seems every passing year and they can't just be kids anymore (well aside from the whole marriage and 1800's era and before). Side effect from expanding our life expectancy a lot over the years. 

Seriously though, why do people buy revealing clothes for their little girls? It infuriates me to go shopping for my daughter because the damn clothes now look so freaking slvtty.


----------



## southern wife

costa200 said:


> *The thing is that the peak of sexual attractiveness for women isn't 30. It's more like early 20s.*



I highly disagree with that statement. Women that take care of themselves age rather nicely. Haven't you heard the saying "ugly duckling turned into a beautiful swan"? Happens all the time. I am told that I look better now than I ever have......I'm 41 BTW. I always say "thank you" and go my own way, because deep down I know it's true. 

Enough of that..............and onto the topic:

If a 40-something year old man is drooling over a teenage girl, YES that's a red flag. Good thing he never acted on it, but gross enough to write in a "journal" about it. Now if he just commented that she was a cute girl, instead of WOW, SEXY, HOT, BLAH BLAH BLAH.....that would have been a different story.

I will notice young guys and think, "aaawww he's so cute"...........and then think "he's going to be a knock out when he gets older". End of story. I don't go write it down.....it's just my thoughts...........and there's nothing wrong with that type of thinking.

But I agree that your hubs is skating on a fine line............one that I hope he never crosses.


----------



## costa200

> I highly disagree with that statement. Women that take care of themselves age rather nicely. Haven't you heard the saying "ugly duckling turned into a beautiful swan"? Happens all the time. I am told that I look better now than I ever have......I'm 41 BTW.


I knew i was bound to get some lady projectiles thrown my way because of that sentence, but i'm only saying what in average is considered true. The darnest thing about averages is that they have plenty of exceptions. 



> I just like to think that most human beings are decent enough to not to lust after underaged children.


Most of us don't "lust after". There is a difference between looking at beauty in its different forms and being obsessed and going after it. 




> I mean there are enough sexy adults in the world to be lusted after, and I guess it just makes me sad that our kids look older it seems every passing year and they can't just be kids anymore (well aside from the whole marriage and 1800's era and before).


Actually kids never had so much time to be kids. That's part of the problem. The bloddy lil brats refuse to stay put as children. They always want to look like adults.



> Side effect from expanding our life expectancy a lot over the years.
> 
> Seriously though, why do people buy revealing clothes for their little girls? It infuriates me to go shopping for my daughter because the damn clothes now look so freaking slvtty.


Can't answer this... I cringe everytime i zap through the channels see that show about young little girls in beauty pageants wearing makeup and walking around in high heels and whatnot. Now that's truly SICK...


----------



## southern wife

costa200 said:


> I cringe everytime i zap through the channels see that show about young little girls in beauty pageants wearing makeup and walking around in high heels and whatnot. Now that's truly SICK...


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: I'd never do that to my daughter. Those parents need therapy. Those kids need therapy, along with being allowed to play outside and be kids.


----------



## southern wife

CandieGirl said:


> *And before anyone jumps to the 'all men have these fleeting thoughts sometimes', that very well may be true; however, not all men jot it down in a frigging diary. Get real! The guy's got problems!*


You have hit the nail on the head!


----------



## MrK

blackraven said:


> I think its the fact he wrote he thought she was cute and sexy when he KNEW she was 14 that is my problem.


Did anyone change their opinion about the attractiveness of the girl on page 1 when they found out she was 14? I think not. 

You read an old diary post. If he wrote it with a "crazy, huh?", or "man, I'm getting old" attitude or while wacking off are two different things. You don't know which. That's why you don't read someone's personal thoughts and put too much credence in them without talking to him. 

That being said, you can't unring this bell. Leave him or talk to him. I don't think there's an in-between.


----------



## Eco

Costa speaks the truth. 

Branding a man a creepy pervert for being attracted to a sexually mature woman when that's entirely normal biologically doesn't make any sense at all. 

He didn't act on it, and in fact, he expressed concern that she was so young! Like it or not, it _is_ social norms that label her too young, despite the biological fact that she had probably been sexually mature for a few years already. 

He even made the statement that he wished she were older. Do you see how that is different from a man lusting after a child? If he was wantonly seeking a child to lust after, he would have been more excited by her being only 14 and even happier if she was 10! That would be something to worry about. If the object of his desire manifests idealized attributes of a woman, that is quite different from him lusting after someone that manifests the attributes of a child! 

Is it disrespectful of him to be checking out cashiers when he's with you? Of course it is...but it would be just as lame if she was 45, wouldn't it?


----------



## ShawnD

> That is so true. I usually have to buy my 6 year old shorts made for boys, because the ones made for girls almost always ride up way high, almost into the butt crack. Underwear is one thing, but outside apparel...for toddlers and elementary aged children...does it REALLY have to look like a 6 year old is ready to hit some adult night club? My little girl shouldn't LOOK sexy to anyone until she's like waaaaay older. I even have issues with bikinis before 18.


Would it make you feel better if I told you that the clothes don't matter? You can wear a nice suit and we can still picture you naked. Actually that might you feel worse. Forget I posted that.



> And before anyone jumps to the 'all men have these fleeting thoughts sometimes', that very well may be true; however, not all men jot it down in a frigging diary. Get real! The guy's got problems!


Nailed it. Expressing emotions is not normal. He should be given therapy and medication so that he never shares his feelings with anyone else again.


----------



## costa200

> Nailed it. Expressing emotions is not normal. He should be given therapy and medication so that he never shares his feelings with anyone else again.


I like this type of sarcasm... 

But he wasn't really sharing feelings. His wife read it in an old diary of his (first time i hear about a grown man keeping a diary too).


----------



## Mephisto

Costa, You got this thread nailed 100%

There must be a reason we guys don't keep diaries, and what do you know ...... Whoop, there it is!!!!


----------



## blackraven

Well I decided to tell him I'd read parts of the diary.
When he came home from work I was in the garden he came outside and we chatted for a bit then I told him I'd found the book but didn't realise it was a diary. He was a bit "so you read my diary!" When I asked him about the comments about 'sarah' he said she looked older than she was. I said yes but you still put she was cute and sexy even when you knew her age. He said yeah but I thought she was older.
I said what with this and the 'teen bodies' and staring at that young checkout girl it seems you have a liking for teenagers? He rolled his eyes and said for godsake. I asked him what he'd think if I'd have written about one of my sons 14 year old mates being cute and sexy. He just looked at me got up went back in the house and ate his tea!

So all I kept getting was "well she looked older". The atmosphere was strained to say the least. How can you have a chat when the other person wont talk?
He got up this morning and was all bright and breezy before going to work.


----------



## costa200

> So all I kept getting was "well she looked older".


blackraven... Because that's what it was! What exactly did you expect him to say? 



> The atmosphere was strained to say the least. How can you have a chat when the other person wont talk?
> He got up this morning and was all bright and breezy before going to work.


Maybe because for him this wasn't a big deal at all. He didn't get all defensive and hot on you. Believe it or not, that's actually a good sign because it means he isn't harboring a large amount of guilt. 

I wonder exactly what were you expecting to get from this conversation? An admission on his part that he like young fit bodies? 

You already know that. Have you thought about why he just doesn't come out an say it? For a man that isn't something bad to admit. It's almost a given! We all (well, at least over 90% of us) like young fit women. They are pleasing to the eye. So, why doesn't he just say that? Have you considered why?

Isn't it really a sign of the respect he has for you and an attempt to protect your feelings? He doesn't want to tell the woman he loves that she is physically over the hill, even in an indirect way. He understands that it would be abusive to you. So he isn't doing it. 

Now what? Are you going to keep at it until he tells you that? Do you even want to hear that?


----------



## blackraven

Well I wish he had said that costa instead of just walking away. No I'm not going to keep at it. 
I was expecting at least a "don't be bloody stupid it was just something written in a diary years ago".


----------



## Caribbean Man

Ok Costa,
Lets reverse the roles here.

Suppose it was her writing in her diary how she sometimes fantasizes about her 16 yr old son's high school friend's sexy, lean body,and how hard his d!ck might be.
Suppose her husband had stumbled upon it in the same way she had "stumbled" upon his.

What would you have told her " typical" middle aged husband, if he was the original poster instead of her?


----------



## CandieGirl

...Sarcasm is a tool used by the weak of mind...

To any of you who are defending the OP's husband, I would have thought good old fashioned shame would have kicked in by now, and unless you're males under 22 years of age, you really have no business lusting, drooling, pining or journalling about any female that age. Simply put, for the simple minded, you're disgusting.


----------



## trey69

When I was in my twenties I might have enjoyed the younger looking ones in porn, you know closer to my age. Now that I'm in my 40's I hardly ever watch it, I have no need or want for it, and I sure wouldn't search anything with the word "teen" in it. I'm passed those days, whether its biological or not for men to be visual and enjoy the youthful look in women or not. Its still a choice to watch youngin's. There are plenty of women around my age who look young, I don't have to go for the teeny boppers. So yes, sounds like he has some issues.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Poor guy walked into an ambush where you used his private diary thoughts against him. What did you expect him to do?


----------



## momtwo4

Caribbean Man said:


> Every person's character is the sum total of their thoughts.
> Something is right or wrong not because of the rewards/ consequences , but based on the principle / logic behind it.
> Even if our 14 yr old's are having sex,
> 
> IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT WE SHOULD TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THEIR STUPIDITY.
> 
> You are what you THINK .


This is SO true. This is what separates humans from wild animals. Sure, it is natural to notice that someone is attractive. You can notice that a baby is beautiful or a fourteen-year-old is beautiful. But sexually??? Stop those thoughts. Don't go there. You CAN choose to kill a thought. If you are lusting after a fourteen-year-old in a sexual way, there is a serious CHARACTER problem.


----------



## JenniferMarried36

Let's not just paint men and the perverts and us women as innocent bystanders.

How often do you see female teachers seducing 14 and 15 year old students, just as much if not more nowadays. Unfortunately women get away with lesser charges than men do due to stereotypes that's it's no big deal for boys to have sex with older ladies but not for girls, etc. Both are wrong!

Also we live in a over sexualized culture. Girls see Rihanna, Lindsay Lohan, Lady Gaga, Madonna, Britney Spears wearing next to nothing on stage. Society tells us that is the music we want you to listen to. How is it that no other singers for the most part get nominated for awards but these harlets keep getting awards year after year.

Also, men are stimulated by a woman's curves, my husband for example could tell me what size a woman's breasts are before he could tell you what colour her hair and eyes are.

We as women have to blame ourselves for allowing our 12, 13, 14, 15 year old girls to wear g-string underwear, tiny bikinis, push-up bras, low cut tops showing cleavage etc and think that they will not get ogled at by boys and men of all ages. Women should embrace their bodies, women not young girls.

Girls grow up faster nowadays, we all know that's a fact. When I went to high school a C cup was considered big, now it's considered average with a DD considered big. Most girls these days are more developed than their moms. Of course they are going to get ****y and confident when they get whistled at and looked at, who wouldn't??

It's too bad that TV shows, the internet and music is so sex-related, If it would be toned down alot then this problem of men mostly and women being obsessed with teens wouldn't be as bad.


----------



## CallaLily

He got pissy because you looked at his diary... Oh boo woo to him! 

Either he is mad because you looked in general, you know its the principal of the thing, OR because of the contents in it. My guess is, its both. Oh well....

BTW, most of the time people who enjoy what they are doing, looking at, etc, will always find a way to justify their actions. They will always try to make the other person feel dumb or wrong for feeling the way they do on certain issues.


----------



## momtwo4

blackraven said:


> Bit of backstory first, about two years ago I found out that husband had searched for 'teen bodies' on a torrent site along with some other stuff (not porn related). He hadn't actually downloaded anything it had just appeared in the search box. Now I know a lot of porn with teen in the title are actually 18+ but can look 16 etc so presumed it was that. I was still a little shocked and when I asked him about it he denied it and said it must be a virus. He later admitted it was him.



This right here shows me that there is a serious problem. He made an active DECISION to search for naked teenagers on the internet. We are not talking about a fleeting, redirected thought. This was an action. I don't care if the girls had "mature" bodies. That is besides the point. Where do you draw the line? What if it was a ten-year-old who went through a very early puberty? It is downright dangerous to try to justify such actions.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

momtwo4 said:


> This is SO true. This is what separates humans from wild animals. Sure, it is natural to notice that someone is attractive. You can notice that a baby is beautiful or a fourteen-year-old is beautiful. But sexually??? Stop those thoughts. Don't go there. You CAN choose to kill a thought. If you are lusting after a fourteen-year-old in a sexual way, there is a serious CHARACTER problem.


Is the husband lusting after 14 year old girls regularly? I didn't get that from this thread. All we know is that the husband wrote one diary entry about thinking a girl looked older than she was, looked sexy and he wished she was at least 17. Does it mean that the husband like them young? Yes, but by what he wrote he likes them legal too. We also know that the husband leers (or maybe just notices?) attractive check out girls. Well how old are these girls? My guess is that they are likely at least of legal age to consent to a sexual relationship. Sure his behavior may be a little creepy and perverted due to the age gap; however, his desires appear to be legal. 

I think the bigger issue here is that the husband seems to be checking out other women an awful lot. Would the OP feel any better if he's constantly leering at 40 year old MILFS? Most porn showcases women that are 18 -22 years of age. Most would think the husband was a little perverted (or stupid) to go after women who are 18 - 22 because it looks like a perverted older man looking for younger girls. 

I don't think the husband is at risk of being a pedophile, but I do think the husband is not paying enough attention to his own wife and making her feel attractive and desirable. This, IMO, is the bigger issue.


----------



## Caribbean Man

CallaLily said:


> He got pissy because you looked at his diary... Oh boo woo to him!
> 
> Either he is mad because you looked in general, you know its the principal of the thing, OR because of the contents in it. My guess is, its both. Oh well....
> 
> *BTW, most of the time people who enjoy what they are doing, looking at, etc, will always find a way to justify their actions. They will always try to make the other person feel dumb or wrong for feeling the way they do on certain issues*.


:iagree:

Yup,
And we men have a term for that.
Its called " Gaslighting ."


----------



## RClawson

There are so many attractive teens and then they talk and I have no attraction at all.


----------



## CallaLily

Caribbean Man said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Yup,
> And we men have a term for that.
> Its called " Gaslighting ."


----------



## blackraven

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Yes, but by what he wrote he likes them legal too. We also know that the husband leers (or maybe just notices?) attractive check out girls.
> 
> I think the bigger issue here is that the husband seems to be checking out other women an awful lot. Would the OP feel any better if he's constantly leering at 40 year old MILFS? Most porn showcases women that are 18 -22 years of age. Most would think the husband was a little perverted (or stupid) to go after women who are 18 - 22 because it looks like a perverted older man looking for younger girls.
> 
> I don't think the husband is at risk of being a pedophile, but I do think the husband is not paying enough attention to his own wife and making her feel attractive and desirable. This, IMO, is the bigger issue.


Yes it may be my interpretation of looking as 'leering' I do admit to feeling a bit paranoid after the teen bodies thing. Thats the thing he doesn't check out women "an awful lot". Its been the checkout girl, the teen bodies search and now the diary which was written 8 years ago. I've know him for 4. He does pay me lots of attention and is always telling me how beautiful and sexy I am.


----------



## momtwo4

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Is the husband lusting after 14 year old girls regularly? I didn't get that from this thread. All we know is that the husband wrote one diary entry about thinking a girl looked older than she was, looked sexy and he wished she was at least 17. Does it mean that the husband like them young? Yes, but by what he wrote he likes them legal too. We also know that the husband leers (or maybe just notices?) attractive check out girls. Well how old are these girls? My guess is that they are likely at least of legal age to consent to a sexual relationship. Sure his behavior may be a little creepy and perverted due to the age gap; however, his desires appear to be legal.
> 
> I think the bigger issue here is that the husband seems to be checking out other women an awful lot. Would the OP feel any better if he's constantly leering at 40 year old MILFS? Most porn showcases women that are 18 -22 years of age. Most would think the husband was a little perverted (or stupid) to go after women who are 18 - 22 because it looks like a perverted older man looking for younger girls.
> 
> I don't think the husband is at risk of being a pedophile, but I do think the husband is not paying enough attention to his own wife and making her feel attractive and desirable. This, IMO, is the bigger issue.


No, I don't think I misread the original post. I read it carefully. I think the OP has reason to be concerned. 

I will say that this thread makes me wish that my little princess never goes through puberty. I think it is important to remember that a "teenage body" is someone else's princess. And if she is not, then that is really sad. I stand by my belief that someone who willingly searches for pictures of "teenage bodies" is preying on individuals who are more vulnerable than himself. 

I'm leaving this thread. People will justify anything to makes themselves feel better.


----------



## costa200

Caribbean Man said:


> Ok Costa,
> Lets reverse the roles here.
> 
> Suppose it was her writing in her diary how she sometimes fantasizes about her 16 yr old son's high school friend's sexy, lean body,and how hard his d!ck might be.
> Suppose her husband had stumbled upon it in the same way she had "stumbled" upon his.
> 
> What would you have told her " typical" middle aged husband, if he was the original poster instead of her?


I think you went a little overboard with the graphics there but i would basically tell him the same thing! I'm under no illusion that women don't look at fit guys. They do! Any married man who isn't aware that the muscular naked torso of the pool boy is eye candy for the wifey is naive. It about what she does, or doesn't do, about it that matters. You cannot control the dynamics of attractions. You can only play it so that you come out on top. 

Do you think married women don't have similar thoughts about fit guys? They do. I work mainly with women (so much so that i'm often some sort of a mascot for them). When they let the mask down and start talking to each other, sometimes its a real eye opener. 

But what they don't do is write down this crap for someone to read. The thoughts though... Those are there!



> Well I wish he had said that costa instead of just walking away. No I'm not going to keep at it.
> I was expecting at least a "don't be bloody stupid it was just something written in a diary years ago".


He was probably to embarrassed about it to say much of anything. It's not like you gave him much time to come up with a coherent speech. His insistence on "she looked older" was due to his fear that you would think him a pedophile or something. 

But the real point is this:



> but I do think the husband is not paying enough attention to his own wife and making her feel attractive and desirable. This, IMO, is the bigger issue.


This is the real thing you guys should be working at.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

momtwo4 said:


> No, I don't think I misread the original post. I read it carefully. I think the OP has reason to be concerned.
> 
> I will say that this thread makes me wish that my little princess never goes through puberty. I think it is important to remember that a "teenage body" is someone else's princess. And if she is not, then that is really sad. I stand by my belief that someone who willingly searches for pictures of "teenage bodies" is preying on individuals who are more vulnerable than himself.
> 
> I'm leaving this thread. People will justify anything to makes themselves feel better.


Sure she should be concerned that her husband is checking out women too much. But throughout this entire thread I haven't seen an instance where the husband was actively seeking out 14 year old girls to lust after or worse try to have physical contact with them. We know of one diary entry where he acknowledges liking the way a 14 year old girl looks and wishing she was older. Perverted? Yes. Risk to adolescent girls? IMO, no because the age of the girl was a "turn off" based on what he wrote.

I have 2 daughters of my own and both my wife and I realize that there is no way we can possibly shield their innocence 100% from outside influences. Predators will be floating around and there isn't anything we can do about except for talk to our kids and teach them about the consequences of talking with strangers or putting themselves in dangerous situations. Also, my wife and I make sure that our girls are not walking around dressed like "****s in training". Too many parents surprisingly don't care how inappropriately dressed their daughters are going out in public. 

If your comments are directed at me, then I think you are completely wrong about me trying to justify this. I want to look at the facts and try to determine what his most likely thoughts are on this. I personally do not go lusting after adolescent girls and it makes me sick to think of any girl in a sexual way who is not at least 18 years old. But I say again that if you ever became a mind reader, you would be greatly disappointed in what thoughts people squirrel away in their minds that they don't let out for others to see.


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## blackraven

He couldn't pay me more attention if he tried so I can't complain on that score. 
I think he thinks if he doesn't say anything (any topic he doesn't want to discuss) it will get forgotten about. I prefer to talk and talk till something is resolved, if it can be.
Anyway I sent him a message at work saying that as he wouldn't talk yesterday I thought I'd text instead. I got a reply saying "yes we'll talk later".


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## blackraven

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I want to look at the facts and try to determine what his most likely thoughts are on this. I personally do not go lusting after adolescent girls and it makes me sick to think of any girl in a sexual way who is not at least 18 years old. But I say again that if you ever became a mind reader, you would be greatly disappointed in what thoughts people squirrel away in their minds that they don't let out for others to see.


Thank you plan 9. That's what I'm trying to do, stick to the facts I know. Well I will see what he has to say when he comes home.

Thank you for all for taking time to reply.


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## costa200

> He couldn't pay me more attention if he tried so I can't complain on that score.


He is a dedicated husband then? He makes you feel good?


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## dixieangel

I just want to add...

OP, i know exactly how you feel. I've been through this with my husband. It hurts. My husband explains it like costa does. 

This is how I see it: When I see a teenage boy, I think of someone's son or maybe a potential bf for my daughter. I don't think of them sexually. I don't care how good looking they may be. I would think poorly of myself if I had such thoughts. It would make me feel old and that I was taking advantage of a child. And what would his parents think of me? OMG!

My question is...

If sexual attraction cannot be controlled, or we can't help what attracts us, what about those who are attracted to children without secondary sex characteristics? 

If men are wired to be attacted to youthful women, why are some different? I've know plenty of men that aren't that way...like Caribbean Man here for an example. Does that mean that those men are more evolved? It does seem to me that if those wired male "instrincts" aren't there, that would make us more evolved from the rest of the animal kingdom. Isn't that what we'd like to think? We are better than mere animals because we aren't controlled by instincts? We have a conscience?

OP, I found out my husband did have a sexual relationship with a 19 year old girl that worked for him when he was 40. It made me literally sick. I guess a lot of men here would pat him on the back...I'm guessing a lot of women here would feel like I did..I lost some respect for him..and I'm always insecure about my age and looks now. 

I just have to accept this explanation of how we are wired differently and have instincts.....or else, be alone.


----------



## Almostrecovered

dixieangel said:


> If sexual attraction cannot be controlled, or we can't help what attracts us, what about those who are attracted to children without secondary sex characteristics?



you do realize that whether through nature or nurture (or lack of that is), that this is essentially true. It's why child sex offenders have such a high rate of recurrence. They feel compelled to do it due to the strong attraction and desire, most pedo's will admit it's wrong but do it anyways.

Not that in any way does this excuse the behavior nor exclude them from proper punishment, children need to be protected


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## CandieGirl

Ya, but this guy's being excused because the girl looked almost 18, as if that somehow makes it any better...So what? Chances are, she wasn't trying to attract 40 year olds. I know that I certainly wasn't at that age!

OP, if you want your man to stop ogling other women or leering or whatever, even if it IS just the odd time or two, PM me. I've got the perfect solution for THAT. LMAO!


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## KathyBatesel

I'm not reading all the responses yet, and am short on time at the moment. 

Your husband is attracted to young girls, yes. The fact that it moved beyond mere fantasy to actual fantasizing about a 14 y.o. is extremely worrisome. It's only slightly reassuring that he stated "if she was 17 I could cope with that" because it *still* indicates he'd be willing to cross a line, though it gives an idea of how much.

Confronting him will not change what appeals to him. Nothing will change that. 

Whether he will ever act upon (or whether he already has, in fact) is a different question altogether. He won't give an honest answer if he would or has, so it's pointless to ask him. 

Only you can decide if you are willing to take the risk of being married to a man who has pedophile tendencies. These tendencies are far more common than you'd guess - I'd estimate at least one in every ten men has them based on my own experiences and research.


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## Gaia

What's that statistic when it comes to women kathy? Because I know there are some pretty sick women out there too. Its not just limited to men.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Caribbean Man

KathyBatesel said:


> I'm not reading all the responses yet, and am short on time at the moment.
> 
> Your husband is attracted to young girls, yes. The fact that it moved beyond mere fantasy to actual fantasizing about a 14 y.o. is extremely worrisome. It's only slightly reassuring that he stated "if she was 17 I could cope with that" because it *still* indicates he'd be willing to cross a line, though it gives an idea of how much.
> 
> Confronting him will not change what appeals to him. Nothing will change that.
> 
> Whether he will ever act upon (or whether he already has, in fact) is a different question altogether. He won't give an honest answer if he would or has, so it's pointless to ask him.
> 
> Only you can decide if you are willing to take the risk of being married to a man who has pedophile tendencies. *These tendencies are far more common than you'd guess - I'd estimate at least one in every ten men has them based on my own experiences and research.*


:iagree:

........and it sickens me.
Its like a pernicious wilt, taking over the society.

The problem with these guys is that something is wrong with their wiring.
My feeling is that they cannot fulfil a grown woman's sexual desires so that they need young , flesh to make them feel like a man.
The scent of bubble gum & cotton candy turns them on.


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## DayDream

To answer your topic line. Simply, YES.


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## Gaia

Lol daydream.. short and sweet... awesome. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## costa200

I'm getting that people are confusing morality with biological impulses. A biological impulse isn't aways moral. Morality is the result of upper thought processes. Sexual attraction is controlled by a very primitive part of our brains.

The two are not the same and are often contradictory.



> If sexual attraction cannot be controlled, or we can't help what attracts us, what about those who are attracted to children without secondary sex characteristics?
> 
> If men are wired to be attacted to youthful women, why are some different?


Totally different situation. The OP's husband showed no pedophile tendencies. The reason why some people are pedophiles (women too, not only men) is a hard one. Humans have all sorts of sexual behaviors and tendencies. Some are so borderline that we think of them as disgusting/repulsive. 

But pedophiles are one of the best proofs that we cannot help ourselves in what we find attractive. I don't think anyone would choose to be one. 



> I've know plenty of men that aren't that way...like Caribbean Man here for an example. Does that mean that those men are more evolved? It does seem to me that if those wired male "instrincts" aren't there, that would make us more evolved from the rest of the animal kingdom. Isn't that what we'd like to think? We are better than mere animals because we aren't controlled by instincts? We have a conscience?


That's what we like to think about ourselves. But it just ain't so. Bellow the multiple layers of our social constructs there are the same animal urges that we see in the rest of the primates. We are very complex on HOW we do things. We are not so complex on the WHY we do things.

But lets not make this all about men. Women have the same underlining biological conditions. That's why many are "inexplicably" attracted to men that they know are no good (rather their upper thought process does). That's why the "nice guy" only gets hottest girl around in the movies.

Personally, as someone with a background in the biological sciences, i find it really hard to mark something that separate us from the rest of the mammals in regards to attraction. We follow the same script that our closer cousins follow.



> OP, I found out my husband did have a sexual relationship with a 19 year old girl that worked for him when he was 40. It made me literally sick. I guess a lot of men here would pat him on the back...I'm guessing a lot of women here would feel like I did..I lost some respect for him..and I'm always insecure about my age and looks now.


Don't be. There is a lot more to a woman than her external shell. Or we all would be going after younger pretty hollow head women. Men are not THAT simple.


----------



## Grayson

I'm skipping pages of replies here, too, so apologies if I've missed some additional nuances...



Caribbean Man said:


> :iagree:
> 
> ........and it sickens me.
> Its like a pernicious wilt, taking over the society.
> 
> The problem with these guys is that something is wrong with their wiring.
> My feeling is that they cannot fulfil a grown woman's sexual desires so that they need young , flesh to make them feel like a man.
> The scent of bubble gum & cotton candy turns them on.


I think that, in most cases, you're reading too much into what someone finds visually appealing. Let me illustrate with some examples.

When I was around 28-ish, my friends and I were weekend regulars at a restaurant. We had a regular waiter that we were on good terms with. I'd noticed a cute hostess a few times we'd been in and asked our waiter, "Fill me on on the hostess."
_"The cute blonde?"_
"Yeah."
_"The one in the black dress?"_
"Yeah."
_"The one with the nice a$$?"_
"Yeah."
_"The one who's 17?"_
"Whoops! Never mind."
It didn't mean that she was any less physically attractive to me. Just that that attraction would never be acted upon.

Going into an example that, even without age as a factor, falls outside the bounds of reality:

I'm a sucker for cute redheads. When the show _Castle_ debuted, I immediately noticed Molly Quinn, the actress who plays the title character's daughter. Knowing how casting for teen characters normally works in Hollywood (ex: Charisma Carpenter was pushing 30 when she began playing high school sophomore Cordelia Chase on _Buffy the Vampire Slayer_), I figured she was probably 22-23. I soon came to learn that she was, at the time, 16, the same age as her character. It was quite a shock, but doesn't mean that her "look" is any less one that I find attractive.

I heard it said once that our musical tastes lock in by the time we hit 18-20. I think the same goes for the type of people we find attractive. Generally speaking, as we mature, we learn to not restrict ourselves and look at a much larger spectrum and/or apply our preferences with a little more...what to call it?..."age equivalence."

So, to me, the journal comments by the OP's husband are equivalent to me thinking, "I'm a bad, bad man." when learning Molly Quinn's age. It's neither his fault nor the girl's that she fits a "look" that he likes. It's to his credit that, upon learning her age, he realized it was a non-starter. That doesn't change the fact that she still fits that "look." Despite what he wrote, I doubt he would have put thoughts into actions if she were of the age of consent...just that he wouldn't feel like the pedophile that some are painting him to be for noticing that she looked like his "type."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gaia

I'm just laughing a bit at this thread. While I know the OP is concerned about her husbands journaling.. and she has every right to be so those shaming her I feel need to stop that. If it bothers her.. then it bothers her and that is all there is to it. Regardless of biological instincts or not.. the point is... her husband has been leering at younger females in her presence. NOT just writing about it or thinking about it.. but outright staring at them as well.. which is quite rude regardless of age. We can discuss pedophilia all month long but the point is.. it makes HER uncomfortable. I think she needs to sit down and discuss this with her husband and let him know how she feels when he does these things.. he may be offended... but if he really didn't mean anything by it... he will be understanding .. or should be at least.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KathyBatesel

Gaia said:


> What's that statistic when it comes to women kathy? Because I know there are some pretty sick women out there too. Its not just limited to men.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, there are. My estimate of 1 in 10 is based on my own experiences and research, which has been male approaches for the most part. 

I wish I could answer your question well, but I have no idea what the amount of women would be, but judging from the number of news stories I have seen in recent years, it's certainly not treated the same as when men do the same thing - even though both are equalized as far as the actions themselves go. That's where morality trumps that biological urge mentioned by costa200.


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## KathyBatesel

Gaia said:


> I'm just laughing a bit at this thread. While I know the OP is concerned about her husbands journaling.. and she has every right to be so those shaming her I feel need to stop that. If it bothers her.. then it bothers her and that is all there is to it. Regardless of biological instincts or not.. the point is... her husband has been leering at younger females in her presence. NOT just writing about it or thinking about it.. but outright staring at them as well.. which is quite rude regardless of age. We can discuss pedophilia all month long but the point is.. it makes HER uncomfortable. I think she needs to sit down and discuss this with her husband and let him know how she feels when he does these things.. he may be offended... but if he really didn't mean anything by it... he will be understanding .. or should be at least.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have to somewhat disagree with you, Gaia (although I completely agree there is no point in shaming the OP). There are two issues she has: One is rude behavior, like you described, but it would be foolish to ignore the fact that his ancient journal pointed to an intention to act on his interest in a much, much younger girl.


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## Gaia

Oh I'm not disregarding that fact either kathy which is why I said that the point is.. SHE is uncomfortable and SHE has a right to be. So I see no reason why we should discuss why men or women are attracted to what... but instead feel we should focus on helping her decide what to do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Grayson

Gaia said:


> I'm just laughing a bit at this thread. While I know the OP is concerned about her husbands journaling.. and she has every right to be so those shaming her I feel need to stop that. If it bothers her.. then it bothers her and that is all there is to it. Regardless of biological instincts or not.. the point is... her husband has been leering at younger females in her presence. NOT just writing about it or thinking about it.. but outright staring at them as well.. which is quite rude regardless of age. We can discuss pedophilia all month long but the point is.. it makes HER uncomfortable. I think she needs to sit down and discuss this with her husband and let him know how she feels when he does these things.. he may be offended... but if he really didn't mean anything by it... he will be understanding .. or should be at least.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Agreed that, if his looking - regardless of age, regardless of whether or not there's any real intentions behind looking - bothers her, it's an issue that needs to be addressed. Didn't mean to imply otherwise, and I hope no one else was, either. I think we were just trying to forestall a proverbial tarring and feathering.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Grayson

KathyBatesel said:


> I have to somewhat disagree with you, Gaia (although I completely agree there is no point in shaming the OP). There are two issues she has: One is rude behavior, like you described, but it would be foolish to ignore the fact that his ancient journal pointed to an intention to act on his interest in a much, much younger girl.


Based on the excerpts quoted here, I would have to disagree that his journal "pointed to an intention to act on his interest in a much, much younger girl." It clearly pointed to a physical attraction, but it also clearly indicated that he had no intent of acting upon it. In fact, to me, there even an implication that he was somewhat troubled by that attraction due to her being underage.

Let say, though, just for the sake of discussion that I said, "Oh man! If she were just a few years older, I'd be doin' that all day and night til she couldn't move!" I still wouldn't take that as a true intention to act. "Why?" you ask. Because, for example, if you were to read any of my own journal entries from around the time after my wife's PA, it would, by the yardstick you're applying, pointing to an intent to commit vandalism, assault and/or murder. Yet I did none of the above.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DayDream

Gaia said:


> Lol daydream.. short and sweet... awesome.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sometimes ya just gotta tell it like it is...


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## Caribbean Man

This entire thread is an
*Interesting dichotomy........*


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## Cherry

3leafclover said:


> I saw no intention to act on his attraction in the excerpts from his journal that were shared, unless I missed one of them somewhere. It sounded more like what Grayson said... like he wished she were older so he didn't have to feel bad for finding her attractive. That makes sense to me. If that's the case, it also points away from him being an actual pedophile, as pedophiles tend to be attracted to the childish characteristics of their victims, not to their biologically-mature characteristics. It really does sound like the OP's husband was attracted to the latter and then felt somewhat guilty about it when he realized how young she was...just not guilty enough to censor his written recording of his inner dialogue.
> 
> That guilt really is a socially-learned mechanism. Times have changed. My grandmother was married at 14 to a man who was a few years older at the time. He died several years later in WWII, but he was the love of her life and she was happy to be going to see him when she died a few months ago.
> 
> It's a necessary socially-learned mechanism, though, because the gap between biological maturity and social maturity have gotten much wider. Humans are physically maturing faster now (although boys are still maybe 4 years behind girls for this, which explains why the youngest guy I've ever had to feel guilty for being attracted to was 18, not 14), but socially and mentally...slower than ever. They have to be protected for longer now.
> 
> Just because OP's husband is probably not a pedophile doesn't mean there's nothing wrong. I do find it a little strange that his mental "kill switch" (forget who coined that in this thread first) didn't get flipped enough to keep him from mentioning the girl in a second diary entry or to keep him from staring at the retail girl for as long as he did (if he realized her age. either way, yeah, it's rude).
> 
> I think how offended or understanding her husband will be depends on how OP approaches the conversation with him. I think I'd be more than just a wee bit offended if my partner believed me capable of something as awful as pedophilia based on such weak evidence. That would be like if my SO suddenly implied that I'm a serial killer because I enjoy reading crime mysteries or something. However, OP's feelings and the issue with staring at girls in front of her need discussion.


I agree with this. I also think that a fine line is being walked in this thread. The age the OP husbands appears to be attracted to is not pedophilia. Pedophiles by definition are attracted to 13 and below children... Pre puberty if you will, so age will vary slightly. And I agree with Costa quite a bit in pretty much everything he has said. The biggest issue is the OP's husband disrespecting her by ogling at younger women while they are together.

http://www.m.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/features/explaining-pedophilia http://www.m.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/features/explaining-pedophilia


----------



## Cherry

CandieGirl said:


> With all due respect, Carib, some men have no control, hence the OPs problem. He's standing close to the edge. He entered in a diary wishing the 14 year old was 17...and that would be OK? Uh, no.
> 
> Teen girls are raped every day by men like this. Young girls are lured over the internet. So no, not every man has a kill switch. There are plenty of disgusting pigs out there that act on their impulses. Hopefully for the OP and her husband, it hasn't gone that far...but keeping a diary of hot young teens? IMHO, that's not good. Very bad, in fact. The type of thing you wouldn't want falling into the hands of an employer or law enforcement, that's for sure.
> 
> And before anyone jumps to the 'all men have these fleeting thoughts sometimes', that very well may be true; however, not all men jot it down in a frigging diary. Get real! The guy's got problems!


Candie - my H and I wrote a few things years ago, when he was in jail. They were sexual fantasies, with the understanding they were between us.. they were not real, nor would they ever be real. It was a way to keep our physical relationship alive with him being gone. And phone calls were out of the question and expensive as he!!. 

I kept all those letters as a "momento" I guess, but we ended up in divorce years later... And I tried to use the fantasy letters against him (he didn't have any that I had written, no extra storage in jail) to prove him unfit (among other issues in our marriage).

Point being, sometimes you have no one to verbally discuss things with.. perhaps you're alone,, you're sexually frustrated in a 10x10 cell... You feel like you're gonna scream... You gotta let it out somewhere. It could've cost my husbands children because he wrote down his thoughts, when never in a million years would certain fantasies actually happen... The lawyer basically told me written "thoughts" are not criminal... But yeah, best not to write them down if you can help it.

Your mention of a list of hot teenage girls reminds me of my sex partner list I've got somewhere.... I started that list over a decade ago when I was pretty low on myself.. I knew I was a s!ut.. but I was a drunk too. Some of those guys have a last name written down... I have no idea where that list is, but it'd be pretty embarrassing if it were found by the wrong person.. although I hope I would be able to explain to someone that I was a drunk s!ut and I am continuing to work on being a better person, please forgive me...

OP, I hope you can understand that what your H wrote before you were married, and about another person in a fantasy type way has no baring on your marriage. If he is looking at attractive young females in a gawking manner, either with or without you, its creepy and disrespectful.. to you or the "victim" of the blatant staring, regardless of the age.

ETA: H burned those letters those letters with my blessing. And if I could find my sex partner list, id burn it.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Cherry,
With all due respect,I love reading all of your posts,and agree with most of them.
But I find it hard to accept what you are saying in this matter.
Most people have sexual fantasies.
Some of us, [ including me ] have terrible pasts that we are ashamed of. 
But I think a line must be drawn somewhere.
When I was single,I once used to hit on the manager of one of our up scale wh0re houses, I used to frequent.
I thought " she " used to look "super fine " and we used to chat and drink a lot. " She " liked me, and used to get the best girls for me. Then ,one of the girls told me that the manager was really a transvestite beauty queen. I was shocked, and that " kill switch" instantly went off. I had no more fantasies about f-ing " her ", although we would still hang out, because she always gave me the best girls.

Seeing a sexy woman and lusting after her is a good, normal thing. 
Finding out she is under aged ,and STILL having these feelings is WRONG.
Actively searching out teen porn and gawking at teen aged girls in front of wife in addition to the diary thing is borderline and that sort of action IMO ,needs to be outright condemned.

The OP should NOT be made to feel guilty because of her husband's indiscretions.


----------



## Cherry

Caribbean Man said:


> Cherry,
> With all due respect,I love reading all of your posts,and agree with most of them.
> But I find it hard to accept what you are saying in this matter.
> Most people have sexual fantasies.
> Some of us, [ including me ] have terrible pasts that we are ashamed of.
> But I think a line must be drawn somewhere.
> When I was single,I once used to hit on the manager of one of our up scale wh0re houses, I used to frequent.
> I thought " she " used to look "super fine " and we used to chat and drink a lot. " She " liked me, and used to get the best girls for me. Then ,one of the girls told me that the manager was really a transvestite beauty queen. I was shocked, and that " kill switch" instantly went off. I had no more fantasies about f-ing " her ", although we would still hang out, because she always gave me the best girls.
> 
> Seeing a sexy woman and lusting after her is a good, normal thing.
> Finding out she is under aged ,and STILL having these feelings is WRONG.
> Actively searching out teen porn and gawking at teen aged girls in front of wife in addition to the diary thing is borderline and that sort of action IMO ,needs to be outright condemned.
> 
> The OP should NOT be made to feel guilty because of her husband's indiscretions.


I think that's a "line" each of us has to set. Your kill switch went off when you found out something that ultimately turned you off to that fantasy. My and my H's fantasy was killed when we ended up in court. Who knows, this might be the kill switch for the OP's H... Knowing it upsets his wife, he may actively try and curb how he acts around her in regards to young women and/or he may realize it is not a "healthy" thing, depending on who's defining "healthy" in regards to sexual attraction. 

This is all about a diary entry and a man looking at an attractive young lady.. I've caught my H checking out attractive women, young and old. And right after he does, he reaches for my hand and gets closer to me.. tells me he loves me if he can.

ETA: I do think its natural to admire a young woman's attractiveness. I personally would not want to see one in any porn I might view, and I do get a bit offended with some things I see on tv with teenagers.. what comes to mind is the new 90210 series on WB... Those were HS students (not in real life) and its always been a sexually provocative show (but I do like the story line..lol)... I do have an 18 year old little lady and another one who will be entering teenhood soon enough, 9 years . So the idea of a teenager being intimate with anyone is turn off.


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## dixieangel

Caribbean Man said:


> This entire thread is an
> *Interesting dichotomy........*




The distinction between mind and body is an artificial dichototmy, a discrimination which is unquestionably based far more the the peculiarity of intellectual understanding than on the nature of things--Carl Jung


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## Caribbean Man

dixieangel said:


> The distinction between mind and body is an artificial dichototmy, a discrimination which is unquestionably based far more the the peculiarity of intellectual understanding than on the nature of things--Carl Jung


Thank you,
but there are just a small few mistakes in your quote. It should read;

"...The distinction between mind and body is an artificial dichotomy, a discrimination which is unquestionably based far more on the peculiarity of intellectual understanding than *on* the nature of things...."
Carl Jung (1875-1961), 

Nevertheless,
YOU GOT IT RIGHT!!


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## Catherine602

I really think that the "we are wired that way" thinking is a POP culture contrivence. 

Think this out to its logical conclusion. Why is sex the only one left from our evolutionary wiring? Why has nature seen fit to wire men not women? Why is the wire directed towards just the one pleasure seeking activity, why to an urge that requires maturity, self control, commitment to the common good ? Why not drugs, food, theft, or violence? 

We all have urges - they are equally represented in men and women. The degree to which each person acts on them has to do with the person they want to be. Most men strive to respect themselves. The notion of giving into an erge to examine teens girls for their sexual attributes would be an enathermer to decent men. Some men use the wiring to excuse an activity that they know is not good for teen girls. can you imagine living in a society that accepts that middle aged men cannot help regarding teens as sex objects. 

They are compelled to stare at teen girl sex parts because they want to spread their seed. . The girls have to endure lecivious stares from their teachers, coaches, clergy because she has no right to be treated with dignity and respect.

This is not the cultural norm where I come from.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Plan 9 from OS

The number of strawmen in this thread would send a Pagan into orgasmic bliss while fantasizing about the next fertility or harvest ritual coming up that involves burning things in effigy...

C'mon people, there are WAY TOO LITTLE facts in this thread that indicate whether the OP's husband is just a regular guy or a closet pedophile. No one has a clue except the OP after she gets more insight from her hubby, and even then she may still not know any more than she does now. All of the pedophilia accusations are centering around one diary entry where the husband saw a sexy looking girl, acknowledged her age and then wrote that he wished she was older. To my knowledge a true pedophile would not have written that he wished the girl was older, and if he would have had more contact with this girl she would likely have become his obsession. 

What else do we know, that the husband likes to look at the checkout line girls? Is this the pedophilia "smoking gun"? Really? How old are these girls? How many of them are probably 18 - 22 and going to a college/university? Do you think any of them are 12 - 14 year old girls working in these places? Of course not. The only thing we can conclude is that the husband likes looking at young girls who are technically legal aged. 

Again, the biggest issue is that the husband is looking at other women and it bothers the OP. How much of what he is doing is mere glances vs. "licking the window" level of ogling is not clear. The biggest porn mags in the world today - Playboy and Penthouse - offer photos of girls ranging from 18 - 22 years old. Yes, 18 and 19 and technically 20 are the teenage years. If you want to make value judgements that the husband is ogling girls who are significantly younger than he is, then have at it because that tends to be frowned upon in society. But to accuse the guy of being a closet pedophile that is ready to pounce on the first unsuspecting 12 - 14 year old walking down the street in skimpy clothing is a huge stretch based on the facts present in the thread.


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## Caribbean Man

Thank You Catherine.
This entire notion of being " wired like that" seems only to apply to men.
" Men are wired like that " is an illogical conclusion based on he wrong assumptions.
It also discriminates , [ like you have alluded to in your post ] against women to the extent of being medieval .


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## Caribbean Man

Plan 9,
I don't think anybody is accusing HIM of being a close pedo.
I think what people, especially the women / mothers are saying is that his behaviour is borderline and unusual.

Even though some men may do like him and lust after teens,
They don't go write it down.
That is the sticking point in the discourse.
That is what has the OP confused.


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## Plan 9 from OS

Caribbean Man said:


> Thank you,
> but there are just a small few mistakes in your quote. It should read;
> 
> "...The distinction between mind and body is an artificial dichotomy, a discrimination which is unquestionably based far more on the peculiarity of intellectual understanding than *on* the nature of things...."
> Carl Jung (1875-1961),
> 
> Nevertheless,
> YOU GOT IT RIGHT!!


I'm not a Jung scholar by any means, but unless that quote can be easily taken out of context I would say that this quote actually supports the nature of biology that a number of people in this thread have been excoriated for pointing out. IMO, this quote is criticizing why people buy into the concept of a soul and an afterlife. It's an indictment against religion and favors worshiping at the alter of science. 

Well when you take this quote to heart and embrace the belief it contains, you inevitably would experience what I would call the law of unintended consequences. As a result, you would see that the famous "opiate of the masses", i.e. religion that Nietzsche believed in would be shelved and inevitably result in the tearing apart of social constructs that we hold to today, i.e. morality according to the Judeo-Christian systems that the western world was built upon (along with Greek philosophy & culture). Stripping these institutions away because we no longer believe in a soul (a mind separate and distinct from the body), morality would be inevitably redefined and IMO would follow the ideals espoused by Nietzsche where "might makes right". How well do would the most poor and vulnerable, i.e. our children, would fare in this "brave new world"? 

JMHO and food for thought.


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## Plan 9 from OS

3leafclover said:


> Love the quote. I think Jung's writings regarding the conflict of the shadow self (which includes the more primitive urges of humans) with the conscious self are very relevant to this thread. Jung believed that the less aware we are of our shadow selves, the more likely they are to overtake our conscious selves, turning us into primitive barbarians.
> 
> In this case, the sexual attraction to a mature-looking teenager is part of the shadow or primitive self. The socially-instilled "This isn't okay because she's too young" is part of the conscious self. According to Jung, enlightenment comes when you recognize your shadow self so that your conscious self is better able to control it.


IDK, what you wrote sounds an awful more like Freud's theory of the ID, Ego and Super Ego, isn't it? My major in school was engineering, so I may not be up to snuff with who believed what. But IMO, this looks a lot like something Freud would believe.


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## dixieangel

Costa stated that the most searched porn term other than sex was teen. I think that means our society has a problem.

It kills me to see porn that has to state the women are 18. Especially the ones that have women that look younger. You know the attributes? Crooked teeth, small thin bodies, ribbons in their hair, teddy bears in the room, tennis shoes and socks on.....

I am a mother. I can't stand the thought of middle aged men looking at a 14 year old sexually. She is still a child. Even thinking without acting on it seems so wrong to me. To me it's a sign of disrespect. 

When I was a teenager, I got a lot of looks and whistles from older men ...and guess what? I was terribly offended! I had no respect for them even then! I did not dress skimpy either, if that's what you are thinking.


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## cloudwithleggs

I should think most men especially if they have teenager daughters are not lusting after them, i don't think it is very healthy.

I remember when i was a teen i had this guy in his late 30's try to get me drunk to sleep with him, most teenage girls see men their dads age as NOT sexually attractive.

Then you have the young guys that chase the older women, lets say 17 and 21, no no no i am not interested   It is a compliment though.

My estranged husband i think liked teens, he actually posted on a forum he liked a teen child star at the time she was 15 and he was in his 30's, the guys on the forum said he was sick, yes he is, he threatened to sleep with his 19 year old nieces friend that was sleeping in the room next to him, because he had learnt i was to date someone else.

I said are you serious because it was ridiculous, he seemed to think she would be interested but then he is narcissistic.


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## Gaia

Catherine602 said:


> I really think that the "we are wired that way" thinking is a POP culture contrivence.
> 
> Think this out to its logical conclusion. Why is sex the only one left from our evolutionary wiring? Why has nature seen fit to wire men not women? Why is the wire directed towards just the one pleasure seeking activity, why to an urge that requires maturity, self control, commitment to the common good ? Why not drugs, food, theft, or violence?
> 
> We all have urges - they are equally represented in men and women. The degree to which each person acts on them has to do with the person they want to be. Most men strive to respect themselves. The notion of giving into an erge to examine teens girls for their sexual attributes would be an enathermer to decent men. Some men use the wiring to excuse an activity that they know is not good for teen girls. can you imagine living in a society that accepts that middle aged men cannot help regarding teens as sex objects.
> 
> They are compelled to stare at teen girl sex parts because they want to spread their seed. . The girls have to endure lecivious stares from their teachers, coaches, clergy because she has no right to be treated with dignity and respect.
> 
> This is not the cultural norm where I come from.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If this ever did become acceptable.. then logically a mother/father should be allowed to beat the living daylights out of these people .. because after all.. they would pose a threat to the offspring and naturally... threats must be eliminated to ensure the survival and safety of said offspring. A lot of parents are just.. "wired" that way... ya know?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ScaredandUnsure

Gaia said:


> If this ever did become acceptable.. then logically a mother/father should be allowed to beat the living daylights out of these people .. because after all.. they would pose a threat to the offspring and naturally... threats must be eliminated to ensure the survival and safety of said offspring. A lot of parents are just.. "wired" that way... ya know?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's how I'm wired. Let me ever catch an adult having sex with my teenage child and we'll see how fast that person becomes extinct.


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## Caribbean Man

*"........"We often refuse to accept an idea merely because the tone of voice in which it has been expressed is unsympathetic to us...." -* 
Friedrich Nietzsche.


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## Caribbean Man

cloudwithleggs said:


> I should think most men especially if they have teenager daughters are not lusting after them, i don't think it is very healthy.
> 
> *I remember when i was a teen i had this guy in his late 30's try to get me drunk to sleep with him, most teenage girls see men their dads age as NOT sexually attractive.*
> 
> Then you have the young guys that chase the older women, lets say 17 and 21, no no no i am not interested   It is a compliment though.
> 
> My estranged husband i think liked teens, he actually posted on a forum he liked a teen child star at the time she was 15 and he was in his 30's, the guys on the forum said he was sick, yes he is, he threatened to sleep with his 19 year old nieces friend that was sleeping in the room next to him, because he had learnt i was to date someone else.
> 
> I said are you serious because it was ridiculous, he seemed to think she would be interested but then he is narcissistic.


^^^^^^^
The funny thing about the part highlighted is that when I was in my late teen, we used to look at middle aged men who lusted after teen aged girls as perverts and we used to laugh at them.

When I was in my 20's , anyone who hung out with us and had a 13 ,14 , 15 yr old girlfriend was ostracized.

Some of these very men who defending this crap would beat the next door neighbour's husband with a baseball bat, if she complained to their wife that she found their 14 yr old daughter's name in her husband's little black book.....

Lots of double standards on this board.


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## dixieangel

biological impulses vs morality...id vs superego....


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## Eco

Caribbean Man said:


> Thank You Catherine.
> This entire notion of being " wired like that" seems only to apply to men.
> " Men are wired like that " is an illogical conclusion based on he wrong assumptions..


No, it's based on scientific understanding of evolutionary biology! And the unsavory urges that come from our "wiring" are not limited to men in any way, shape, or form. Women have their own wiring, and honestly, it's not any prettier, it's just different. 

For example, evidence demonstrates that female humans behave in much the same way as female non-human primates. Mating outside of the fertile window with a primary mate (as well as other males that may threaten the newborn if they thought it was not theirs), as well as a heightened promiscuity during the fertile window where the female will attempt to engage in "extra-pair mating". 

Essentially she will find a "nice guy" that takes good care of her over the long term, but will lust after the "bad boy" with the strong jaw and angular features, and will seek to become impregnated by the latter, and cared for by the former. 

In "civilized" human society the analogues are evident, and published in scientific literature, even if they are more subtle/unfulfilled urges. In monogamous human relationships researchers have demonstrated that ovulation leads to an increase in the "girls night out" where skirts become shorter, dance moves become more suggestive, voices are higher and more attractive, skin glows, and and the the types of men she's attracted to is a bit skewed towards the so called "bad boys" with the more "alpha" personality and the strong features....and all the while, her husband/boyfriend is left to do his own thing! 

As a scientist it makes a lot of sense with respect to the long term fitness of a species...though as a person who also happens to be a romantic, it's not a "feel good" idea to me despite being logical....and _true_. 

So scientists that focus on these things are learning that not only are men promiscuous by nature, but women are as well, and even though the behavior that each sex manifests is rather different, in both cases they seek out reproduction with the most fit partner and in a way to maximize the long term success of offspring. For a man this means a young female with evident sexual fitness, and for a female this is that strong, angular, testosterone shaped alpha male with a compatible major-histocompatibility complex, who might make a terrible father, but a great sperm donor. It's logical...even if it's a bit ugly. 

But so what! I also happen to know that I'm a monogamous, committed, loving and loyal man, and this is despite my underlying biology to an extent. I do not "feel" like I want to be that primal animal, and so I'm not. When I fall in love, I really do see HER, and her alone as my mate (of course I'm one of the guys that women are attracted to outside their fertile window-damn it) Just as women don't act like robots driven only by their wiring, neither do men. 

Now...there's also scientific evidence of something that will make all of the romantics out there feel much better about the world of romantic love as told by the scientist:

Researchers have been able to observe via fMRI that attraction to a woman stimulates the seeking centers of the brain. When single men were evaluated, by flashing them pictures of many women, attractive supermodels, plain Janes, and everything in between the seeking centers of their brains (part of the reward-response system) lit up when they were shown images of attractive women. This happened universally, and even in many cases of men who reported having a girlfriend (OK, that's the one ugly bit) however an interesting thing happened in some other men...those who reported being in love! Their seeking centers where most activated when shown images of their wives/long term partners. One example was a couple that had been married for something like 50 years, and the husband's brain still lit up for his wife like it did for no other. So while science may not always say what we wish were true, it also, sometimes does! Yes, the human animal can Love for a lifetime....and that's in our wiring too.


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## KathyBatesel

Grayson said:


> Based on the excerpts quoted here, I would have to disagree that his journal "pointed to an intention to act on his interest in a much, much younger girl." It clearly pointed to a physical attraction, but it also clearly indicated that he had no intent of acting upon it. In fact, to me, there even an implication that he was somewhat troubled by that attraction due to her being underage.
> 
> Let say, though, just for the sake of discussion that I said, "Oh man! If she were just a few years older, I'd be doin' that all day and night til she couldn't move!" I still wouldn't take that as a true intention to act. "Why?" you ask. Because, for example, if you were to read any of my own journal entries from around the time after my wife's PA, it would, by the yardstick you're applying, pointing to an intent to commit vandalism, assault and/or murder. Yet I did none of the above.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You make a great point. I agree with you. The reason I said it "pointed to an intention" is the way he said he "could've handled it" if she'd been 17. I'm paraphrasing him - those may not have been his exact words. It struck me that if she'd been 17, he'd been planning to approach, but as you said, it's possible that he was just fluffing. I personally don't think that in this case, but I can't argue with your point's validity, either.


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## Gaia

Ok I. Just have to jump in on this. Not all women look to stay with a beta and flirt around with alphas. Some women actually seek out alphas as potential life term partners and alphas are capable of being great fathers as well mind you, just in a slightly different manner then betas. For some women... alphas make great mates because they are strong protectors and providers and although they may be lacking in the empathy department... its that strength among other things that make alphas attractive life term partners as well. 

Example.... say a female wolf was in heat... there were two males around.... she would sit back while they duke it out. The winner would therefore be deemed the stronger male and she would essentially go off with him, mate, have puppies and spend the rest of her life by his side. She wouldn't go flirting around with other males when in heat again. Now yes I get that a wolf isn't a primate BUT some humans do display such behavior as well. Just like some display behavior similiar to that of deer, horses, or other herd animals that tend to have harems. 


I hope I'm making sense....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KathyBatesel

Plan 9 from OS said:


> The number of strawmen in this thread would send a Pagan into orgasmic bliss while fantasizing about the next fertility or harvest ritual coming up that involves burning things in effigy...
> 
> C'mon people, there are WAY TOO LITTLE facts in this thread that indicate whether the OP's husband is just a regular guy or a closet pedophile. No one has a clue except the OP after she gets more insight from her hubby, and even then she may still not know any more than she does now. All of the pedophilia accusations are centering around one diary entry where the husband saw a sexy looking girl, acknowledged her age and then wrote that he wished she was older. To my knowledge a true pedophile would not have written that he wished the girl was older, and if he would have had more contact with this girl she would likely have become his obsession.


Nobody has asked if there is "enough evidence" to take the guy to court. However, ESPECIALLY with a topic like sex with underage children, there's rarely enough evidence. So instead of evidence, I'll stick to the facts that I've learned from studying the topic or that I learned from personal exposure to men who abuse: 


Age is one boundary set for determining whether a sexual relationship is culturally acceptable.
Men who abuse ignore boundaries.
Men who routinely fantasize/pursue sex with women far outside of their own age group are ignoring cultural boundaries. 
CONCLUSION: A risk is present, WebMD's definition be damned. 

Let's take this one step further. When a person's "attraction of choice" is unavailable, they will do one of two things. Go without, or choose a different target. Sexual addicts - whether pedophiles or not - will go ahead and select a substitute. It might be an inanimate object or a type of person. That's why heterosexual males resort to homosexual behavior in prison, but revert to heterosexual practice after release. With pedophiles, they can and will substitute age groups, as well as boys for girls and vice versa, if they cannot pursue what they want to. 

The OP's question isn't about whether she has enough evidence of something. It's about whether she should be concerned. And the little evidence that does exist points to a possibility that there's a risk that could prove very costly for her in financial and self-esteem if he acted on it with a convenient target who happened to be underage. The OP must decide for herself if that risk is worth taking based on what she does she.


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## Grayson

KathyBatesel said:


> You make a great point. I agree with you. The reason I said it "pointed to an intention" is the way he said he "could've handled it" if she'd been 17. I'm paraphrasing him - those may not have been his exact words. It struck me that if she'd been 17, he'd been planning to approach, but as you said, it's possible that he was just fluffing. I personally don't think that in this case, but I can't argue with your point's validity, either.


Your recollection is pretty well on the mark for the phrasing we were given. However, that phrasing is vague enough to allow for your interpretation ("If she were 17, I'd go for it!") but also for the alternative I provided, ("I could deal with finding her so attractive if she were of consenting age. But she's not, so I'm a bad, bad man.")
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cherry

KathyBatesel said:


> Nobody has asked if there is "enough evidence" to take the guy to court. However, ESPECIALLY with a topic like sex with underage children, there's rarely enough evidence. So instead of evidence, I'll stick to the facts that I've learned from studying the topic or that I learned from personal exposure to men who abuse:
> 
> 
> Age is one boundary set for determining whether a sexual relationship is culturally acceptable.
> Men who abuse ignore boundaries.
> Men who routinely fantasize/pursue sex with women far outside of their own age group are ignoring cultural boundaries.
> CONCLUSION: A risk is present, WebMD's definition be damned.
> 
> Let's take this one step further. When a person's "attraction of choice" is unavailable, they will do one of two things. Go without, or choose a different target. Sexual addicts - whether pedophiles or not - will go ahead and select a substitute. It might be an inanimate object or a type of person. That's why heterosexual males resort to homosexual behavior in prison, but revert to heterosexual practice after release. With pedophiles, they can and will substitute age groups, as well as boys for girls and vice versa, if they cannot pursue what they want to.
> 
> The OP's question isn't about whether she has enough evidence of something. It's about whether she should be concerned. And the little evidence that does exist points to a possibility that there's a risk that could prove very costly for her in financial and self-esteem if he acted on it with a convenient target who happened to be underage. The OP must decide for herself if that risk is worth taking based on what she does she.


OP's H wrote a snippet in a diary years ago, prior to marriage. If there was a criminal history of sex crimes or a bunch of unsolved rapes of teens in the area or the family dog was scared to be around him, I might understand this quest to scare this poor women into thinking her H is perverted/sick/pedophile/etc.


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## sweetpea

I am deleting posts in this thread. Off-topic and posts against forum guidelines. 

Please remember the the thread was about the OP and not a debate.


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## Caribbean Man

Grayson said:


> I think the big problem here is the leap of logic that noticing someone is attractive to you is equivalent to "sniffing around." See my earlier Molly Quinn example, for instance. A*cknowledging that she has a particular appearance that I find attractive (dare I say, "sexy?") doesn't mean I'm going down to the nearest high school to find a date for the evening. * "Well, then, you big old perv...that means the 'look' that you like so much is that of an underage girl!" Au contraire. Elisabeth Harnois from _CSI_ could darn well be her double and is 14 years her senior. So I'm a bit at a loss as to whether or not it's acceptable to find their appearance attractive.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


People,
I think we are splitting hairs here.
Absolutely NOTHING is wrong in finding a teenage girl attractive or even sexy. 
My 21 yr old relative is a fashion model and also has her own agency. She looks exotic,is beautiful and very sexy. I have pictures of her in two piece sets as screen savers on my laptop. My wife has absolutely no problem with it. Why?
Because when she was aspiring to be a model,she was just 16 yrs old. I took her, [ because we are involved in the fashion industry down here] into my personal care,and helped her avoid the pitfalls of having to have sex with lecherous nasty old men in the industry,and today she is the " cover girl " for the leading cosmetic company in the Caribbean. Her face is on billboards and magazines advertising their products.
If it was not for my intervention, she might have been a centrefold or in some internet" teen porn" clip.

So what is the difference between me looking at her five years ago,and seeing her as attractive & sexy , and these other men in the industry looking at her and seeing the same thing?
The answer is simple.
Their INTENTIONS.
When they looked at her, they say an opportunity for their own sexual gratification. They didn't care about her dreams.

When I looked I her I saw her potential, and her opportunity for success , if she had the correct connections.

What we are trying to figure out in this entire thread,is the husband's intentions based on his actions.

Funny how on this board,we are able to decipher complex cases of infidelity,
But we can't figure out a simple thing like this.


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## costa200

> Funny how on this board,we are able to decipher complex cases of infidelity,
> But we can't figure out a simple thing like this.


This isn't following a common script that most infidelity cases follow. This is, in spite of appearances a lot trickier, since information is very limited.


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## blackraven

Omg I'm fuming and upset that someone can even suggest he might be a pedophile!

Well he came home from work and we had a chat all calm and everything. I asked him to explain about the second diary entry, he said what he meant was that she was looking as dangerous as ever and did look (as in appear to people,not as his feelings towards her, cute and sexy) meaning someone could get into trouble (and I don't mean police etc) by trying to chat her up because she looked older than she was. I don't know if I've worded that correctly! Yes he said he'd used the wrong words and that he could understand how I interpreted it. 
After reading some of the replies to my original post I can see how the written word can be misinterpreted. Some people have made him out to be a lecherous,dangerous predator waiting to pounce on the next teenager which is totally off the mark. Good god if he was anything like that he'd been long gone.
To clear some stuff up he was visiting friends when he met this girl he didn't seek her out. He hasn't been going round asking teenagers their ages either.The TWO checkout girls he looked at(not loads!) were very pretty and would have been 17/18/19. The "teen porn" search as someone pointed out earlier it's not nice but is apparently a popular search.BTW he didn't actually download anything ( I know this because I searched the history at the time.
Yes we do have a happy marriage so I'm going to accept his explanation and move on.


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## Gaia

Grats black and good to hear everything is cleared up!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gaia

And yes the written word can definately be misintepreted.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AFEH

blackraven said:


> Omg I'm fuming and upset that someone can even suggest he might be a pedophile!
> 
> Well he came home from work and we had a chat all calm and everything. I asked him to explain about the second diary entry, he said what he meant was that she was looking as dangerous as ever and did look (as in appear to people,not as his feelings towards her, cute and sexy) meaning someone could get into trouble (and I don't mean police etc) by trying to chat her up because she looked older than she was. I don't know if I've worded that correctly! Yes he said he'd used the wrong words and that he could understand how I interpreted it.
> After reading some of the replies to my original post I can see how the written word can be misinterpreted. Some people have made him out to be a lecherous,dangerous predator waiting to pounce on the next teenager which is totally off the mark. Good god if he was anything like that he'd been long gone.
> To clear some stuff up he was visiting friends when he met this girl he didn't seek her out. He hasn't been going round asking teenagers their ages either.The TWO checkout girls he looked at(not loads!) were very pretty and would have been 17/18/19. The "teen porn" search as someone pointed out earlier it's not nice but is apparently a popular search.BTW he didn't actually download anything ( I know this because I searched the history at the time.
> Yes we do have a happy marriage so I'm going to accept his explanation and move on.


I was wondering how you were going to respond to the evil and persecutory accusations. Well done, there’s many a man who’d be proud to have you as his woman by his side. Imagine what it would be like if those accusations had reached the courts and the newspapers. To be falsely accused of such things as rape, being a paedophile must be a truly terrible thing for a man and his family.


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## Grayson

blackraven said:


> The "teen porn" search as someone pointed out earlier it's not nice but is apparently a popular search.BTW he didn't actually download anything ( I know this because I searched the history at the time.


It's a popular search for some because, if they don't like the implanted, cynical, artificial, Barbie-looking type, and more prefer the natural looking (I might catch heat for this phrase in this particular conversation) "girl next door" type, that's what a "teen" search will find.

And congratulations on how you handled things with him. Sounds like ya did good.:smthumbup:


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## AFEH

I’m a fifteen minute walk from my local beach. For ten months of the year I share it with just a few others out for a stroll, walking their dogs. In July and August the beach gets invaded by thousands of people. It’s a truly lovely sight with the colourful brolleys, kiddies playing and such.

It’s in Portugal and I swear some of the females have nothing on but a couple of boot laces. There’s a great boardwalk which some of the teens use like they’re in a Miss World competition and some of them sure would win it. If I closed my eyes when walking towards them I’d trip over the edge.

To not see and look would not be possible even if blinkered like a race horse. And to not have thoughts triggered in your mind then I for one simply don’t know how that’s done. If males were arrested for looking and thinking then I feel certain there wouldn’t be a male past puberty and under the age of 200 on the beach.


I was one lucky guy. If I posted a pic of my wife even in her forties and after the birth of two big baby boys you’d think she were a seventeen or eighteen year old teen.


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## cloudwithleggs

I think middle age men that lust after teens are immature themselves and i certainly wouldn't go out of my way to look for teen porn.

But then again... maybe i should change my mind.

Would it then be considered normal for a woman to lust after a teen guy, because they are much more physically attractive than a middle aged male.

Stifler's Mom 

American Pie (12/12) Movie CLIP - Stifler's Mom (1999) HD - YouTube


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## Grayson

cloudwithleggs said:


> .
> Would it then be considered normal for a woman to lust after a teen guy, because they are much more physically attractive than a middle aged male.


Well, my wife certainly noticed the Olympic divers last week, most o whom had an age that ended in the word "teen." And, no denying that their bodies are far better than mine. I've got no concerns.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dixieangel

Grayson..

I'm just curious...what did your wife say about the olympic divers?


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## costa200

> It’s in Portugal and I swear some of the females have nothing on but a couple of boot laces.


Well, it's damn hot over here! Just came back from the swimming pool. Water temperature is like tea...


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## Caribbean Man

dixieangel said:


> Grayson..
> 
> *I'm just curious...what did your wife say about the olympic divers?*


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Touché !


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## Gaia

costa200 said:


> Well, it's damn hot over here! Just came back from the swimming pool. Water temperature is like tea...


Ice tea or hot tea... or lukewarm tea? 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Grayson

dixieangel said:


> Grayson..
> 
> I'm just curious...what did your wife say about the olympic divers?


I don't recall all of the exact comments. One I do remember was, "It should be illegal to have bodies like that. They're gorgeous."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KathyBatesel

Grayson said:


> Well, my wife certainly noticed the Olympic divers last week, most o whom had an age that ended in the word "teen." And, no denying that their bodies are far better than mine. I've got no concerns.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am curious... would you feel the same if she was writing in her diary about them and openly ogling them in your presence in "real life" if they were right there?


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## Grayson

KathyBatesel said:


> I am curious... would you feel the same if she was writing in her diary about them and openly ogling them in your presence in "real life" if they were right there?


Considering we've both been known to point out someone who has a look that the other likes when we're out and about, not a problem.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KathyBatesel

Grayson said:


> Considering we've both been known to point out someone who has a look that the other likes when we're out and about, not a problem.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My husband and I do, too, but it has never been someone far beyond our age groups other than a comment like, "She's a pretty girl" or "If I was twenty years younger, he'd be the kind of guy I'd chase." I think I would personally feel VERY disturbed if I was in the OP's position. I'd abide by a "prepare as if the worst is true, and hope to find I was wrong" mentality.


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## costa200

Gaia said:


> Ice tea or hot tea... or lukewarm tea?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I estimate near 30ºC, wich is 86ºF for you yanks according to google.


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## blackraven

Thank you Gaia, AFEH and Grayson.

I accept I totally overreacted after seeing the diary and putting the teen porn ( which I never implied was anything underage) and checkout girls ( I thought he was staring , he could of course have of course just been looking at a pretty girl) together jumping to conclusions. 
I was a bit dubious at first when he said she looked older but as I couldn't judge for myself I decided to believe him. And after seeing an online article from The Daily Mail (sorry don't know how to link) yesterday about 14 yr old Disney star Bella Thorne on the red carpet I can see how it can happen.

Lessons learnt:
1. trust my husband for the man I know him to be
2. learn all the FACTS before jumping to conclusions
3. Don't read anyones diary no matter how tempting!

Thank you all again for replies.
I did post on another forum at the same time as on here but even after updating them and explanations they still have me as a weak woman burying her head in the sand and my husband as a lecherous, dangerous predator ready to assault any passing teenager. They almost seem disappointed when I didn't say that yes I think he's a pervert.
One thing I have learned is that people will exaggerate/twist/add things into your OP (I'm referring mainly to the other forum). The diary with TWO entries with the words cute and sexy became "a diary of hot girls" and " a diary of written sexual fantasies"! I'm not sure if he even talked to the girl!
Thanks agin


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## costa200

> I did post on another forum at the same time as on here but even after updating them and explanations they still have me as a weak woman burying her head in the sand and my husband as a lecherous, dangerous predator ready to assault any passing teenager.


I'm pretty sure you had people over there thinking differently. The problem is that anyone willing to defend your husband has to be willing to risk to be called a perv/pedophile too. 

It's like one of those situations when there is a rape charge without proof and someone points out that there is no proof either way and after that someone foaming out of the mouth will point a finger and "why are you defending this creep? You're probably a rapist too". 

Over some subjects irrationality is abundant. Take the issue with custody battles. If a mother has no morals and falsely accuses the father of child abuse his life is over and he can forget about seeing his kids ever again. The guy get crucified without trial in society. 

I remember some years ago in the news that a father was playing outside with his daughter, fooling around in the family house lawn and some idiot placed a 911 call that there was a guy molesting a child at that address. Cops came, handcuffed the poor bastard, who had no clue what was going on, roughed him up a bit (all this while his daughter was watching horrified and crying). Took him to jail, and it took some months to clear up every doubt about what was going on. 

Apparently the father now doesn't even touch his daughter while outside. Now, how crazy is this?


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## blackraven

Yes I know what you mean Costa. I can only image what it must be like to be a genuinely innocent man/woman taken to court over something.
I'm not sure which country you are in (I'm in Uk) but there's been a story in the news about a man who killed himself two days ago (Scott Bradley)over here because he'd been hounded for months over false rumours about being a child killer. The poor guy and his poor family.


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## Gaia

Costa that's screwed up! I do get what your saying though. I had some woman tell me she thought it was "not right" when she found out gate changes diapers and gives baths too. I mean cmon... geeze...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Grayson

KathyBatesel said:


> My husband and I do, too, but it has never been someone far beyond our age groups other than a comment like, "She's a pretty girl" or "If I was twenty years younger, he'd be the kind of guy I'd chase." I think I would personally feel VERY disturbed if I was in the OP's position. I'd abide by a "prepare as if the worst is true, and hope to find I was wrong" mentality.


Considering it's some stranger we see while out and about, that sort of thing...we don't walk up and card them, there's not necessarily a way to determine if someone is "far beyond our age group." (And im not even 100% sure I follow what you mean by that...I *think* I do, but I'm not positive.) And, fortunately for the OP's husband, she didn't adopt the "guilty until proven innocent" approach that it sounds like you're advocating.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## costa200

Gaia said:


> Costa that's screwed up! I do get what your saying though. I had some woman tell me she thought it was "not right" when she found out gate changes diapers and gives baths too. I mean cmon... geeze...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That woman has issues. If someone came up to me and said it was wrong for me to do that stuff that is basic parenting to my kid because i'm a man i would call the psych ward in some hospital to tell them they will soon have a new client. 

Maybe she was abused as a child or something, but that's no reason to act like that.


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## anony2

Caribbean Man said:


> :iagree:
> 
> ........and it sickens me.
> Its like a pernicious wilt, taking over the society.
> 
> The problem with these guys is that something is wrong with their wiring.
> My feeling is that they cannot fulfil a grown woman's sexual desires so that they need young , flesh to make them feel like a man.
> The scent of bubble gum & cotton candy turns them on.


I think that they suffer from arrested development, so in reality, although these men (or women) are adults, their mentality is still at the age that they are attracted to.


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## Caribbean Man

anony2 said:


> *I think that they suffer from arrested development, *so in reality, although these men (or women) are adults, their mentality is still at the age that they are attracted to.


A whole lot of people refuse to understand that humans are complex.
Coping mechanisms, and maladaptive coping mechanisms are even more complex.
Maladaptive behaviour can be dangerous if left unchecked.
*It can be treated , if it is recognized for exactly what it is.*


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## lalsr1988

Only during the last hundred or so years have the ages of consent been changes. People often married as young as 13/14. Now you may disagree with it, but it doesn't change the fact that it happened. In fact, in many societies and cultures, a girl became a woman and eligible for marriage right after her first menstrual cycle.It was a cause of communal celebration. More than likely, many men find teenage women attractive because their brains are wired that way. Males are programmed to pass on their DNA and to the brain a teenage girl is ripe and ready for childbearing. Not speaking in favor of this,but objectively. In many countries it is now against the law and of course one should obey the law. However,just because societies change doesn't mean our individual brains do. Why is 18 the magic number even? In some other developed countries 15 and 16 are legal. So I do not think your husband is disturbed or a pedophile. If he were going after 7 or 8 year olds though I would contact the local authorities, or if he hadn't acted, refer him to a psychiatrist.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dixieangel

anony2....i've often thought this myself.


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## ShawnD

CandieGirl said:


> ...Sarcasm is a tool used by the weak of mind...


Sorry to bump old posts, but I can't pass this one up.

science:


> Sarcasm seems to exercise the brain more than sincere statements do. Scientists who have monitored the electrical activity of the brains of test subjects exposed to sarcastic statements have found that *brains have to work harder to understand sarcasm*.


This is why people with frontal lobe brain damage have trouble understanding comedy. They don't understand when a statement is ironic or sincere. People with brain damage incorrectly believe that Colbert is conservative. study about Colbert.
This type of brain damage can be traced to the right frontal lobe; science


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## Runs like Dog

blackraven said:


> Age of consent is 16 here. Yes I know what you mean about the clothes etc and no I've got two sons thank goodness so don't have to worry about that!
> 
> It just sort of creeps me out, I'd never look at a 14-18 year old boy and think wow sexy.


That's why you're not a high school teacher.


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## Runs like Dog

To be fair my great grandmother married at 13 and had a kid that year. Age of consent is a cultural construct. In fact the age of consent in good old Catholic Spain is 13 still. 14 in much of Europe.


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## CandieGirl

Why, mods, hasn't this idiotic thread been 'locked' yet?


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## anonim

CandieGirl said:


> Why, mods, hasn't this idiotic thread been 'locked' yet?


why is it idiotic???


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## rockoko

I know I am not alone in this situation. My husband, 42 for the last couple years can not control his leering/creepy looks for young girls. I caught him gaulking at girls in public, naturally, he denied it and when I press harder, he apologized. His apology doesn't mean much because I've caught him again. We don't have a strong relationship and he's a vain guy. I am not sure if this is a good reason to divorce him; but when I think of where things are stemming from, it frighten me it's just a matter of time before he acts out. He said I blow things up, but I find this behavior disturbing and disrespectful. Instead of focusing on how he disrespect me in public, it's all about how I blow things up and he can't live like this.

I feel bad for you having to read what he wrote. That would really break my heart to see my husband penned such thoughts. I hope you can work things out with him or at least find your inner peace.


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