# Therapist says kids will be ok from divorce



## brokenbythis (Aug 21, 2011)

I don't believe her. I've read books and long term studies about the effects of divorce on children. My own STBXH is in therapy and still blames himself for his parent's divorce 27 years ago.

She said kids come out of divorce just fine if, quote: "you and your ex can remain friends and work together". The last thing I want to do is my ex's FRIEND!!

My little boy is going to be completely devastated. He was devastated even when my STBXH left when he said he wanted a separation 6 mths ago (he has since come back home but now announced he is going to file for divorce). My son cried non stop, acted out at school, didn't want to see or speak to his dad.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Your therapist talks out of her ass.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

johnnycomelately said:


> Your therapist talks out of her ass.


:iagree:


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## papa5280 (Oct 12, 2011)

But....you need to consider the question in terms of alternatives.

It's not whether or not divorce affects kids. It's whether kids are better in an amicable divorce situation or in the alternative, a dysfunctional one-household situation.

Obviously, the best scenario is a one-household situation where everyone is in love and working together. But, since that isn't something that you can control by yourself, the question is, what is the best outcome for my kid, given where we're at today?


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

You have to be friends, no matter what for the kids. Right now my son is coping well and is because we have managed to keep things amicable at least in front of him.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

I think you mean, friendly, not friends


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

What else is the therapist suppose to say to you? 
Mine has given me books and told me that if the kids start having problems then they can come in and see her (they love her) but currently they are coping well w/o him being in their lives much. They know they are loved, they get plenty of attention, their teachers and school staff are watching for any signs of stress for me. 

My stbxh try to have very little contact in front of them. I don't think my youngest comprehends what is going on. The other day when he dropped them off he asked me to go give daddy hugs and kisses telling him that I love him and another son told me that I am boss and daddy needs to start listening and come home. They just don't grasp it yet and only time will tell how they will cope. Let's just hope it does as little damage as possible.
It's a hard world to grow up in now anyway.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Friendly, not friends. My ex wants to be friends, go out for coffee do the family thing...hello, we're not together anymore. 

I think that if the parents can seriously put their differences aside for the sake of their kids, they can recover from the divorce. Some parents have no clue how destructive they are towards their kids because they're just caught up in their own pain. Talking negatively in front of the kids is the worst thing a parent can do. That in itself is very truamatizing for kids. Routine and consistancy is key in order for the kids to adjust.

I've only been separated for three months, but I can see the difference in my kids behavior since it first happened. They are adjusting ok, not perfect, but my ex is pretty reasonable that he never says a negative thing about me to them, keeps the same discipline I do, same rules etc.


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## justwhy (Dec 7, 2011)

I agree somewhat> Because all situations are different and kids response differently. 

I was a victim of parents staying together for the kids. things between them are better now but growing up I prayed for them to divorce because of the cheating and fighting. Family time was great but when things got rocky it was bad. 

If your STBXH can be active in your son live and the both of yous don't use him as a pawn, he might adjust. 

During my separation my son adjusted quickly because he knew his dad was going to pick him from school on certain days and he had fun with him and with me we keep the same routine with extra fun with mommy. 

It funny because his father moved back home yesterday and my son said why are your stuff here, and my husband said because i live here now and he said ok, cool..lol at 5.


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

justwhy said:


> During my separation my son adjusted quickly because he knew his dad was going to pick him from school on certain days and he had fun with him and with me we keep the same routine with extra fun with mommy.
> 
> It funny because his father moved back home yesterday and my son said why are your stuff here, and my husband said because i live here now and he said ok, cool..lol at 5.


You all are reconciling?? Wow! Congrats on deciding to take that journey.


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

working_together said:


> Friendly, not friends. My ex wants to be friends, go out for coffee do the family thing...hello, we're not together anymore.
> 
> I think that if the parents can seriously put their differences aside for the sake of their kids, they can recover from the divorce. Some parents have no clue how destructive they are towards their kids because they're just caught up in their own pain. Talking negatively in front of the kids is the worst thing a parent can do. That in itself is very truamatizing for kids. Routine and consistancy is key in order for the kids to adjust.
> 
> I've only been separated for three months, but I can see the difference in my kids behavior since it first happened. They are adjusting ok, not perfect, but my ex is pretty reasonable that he never says a negative thing about me to them, keeps the same discipline I do, same rules etc.



My wife expects me not to be angry over our situation. Rather to sadly accept it and move on. Wait, what? I struggle with that. She has detached and I am years behind her. That said, what kind of true friendship is it when I initiate 90% of all communication?

All of our differences stem from the fact that I want to remain married and she doesn't. No matter what.

Right now, I'm putting a whole lot of trust in my wife in how she is treating our situation and our children. Meaning, I trust she isn't taking advantage of me and being fair, flexible, etc. So far, so good.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Well kids usually ARE ok. Kids can be ok growing up in any less than ideal situation. Kids who grow up in 'perfect' conditions often have issues too. There's no black and white answer. No one can say all kids whose parents divorce will grow up with problems. Nor can they say all kids will be fine.

My kids are not perfect (whose are??). Their dad and I split when they were 4, 2 and 4 mos. They went through various counselors as they grew up, for issues that may or may not have resulted from the split. They're adults now, and great people if I do say so myself. They also lived through a split with my current hubby 2 years ago (we have since reconciled). Their biological father has been out of the picture for about 14 years now, almost totally (moved 2000 miles away and hasn't been back since). I was a single mom for almost 7 years until I remarried. Ideal? No. But far better than staying with their father. And my current hubby is a far better role model too.

I have zero regrets for divorcing. Especially from the kids perspective.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

It all depends on the attitude of the parents. If they bad-mouth each other, sabotage the ex's disciplinary methods, make snide remarks about an ex's new partner, complain about money,then yes, the kids will have problems.

However, if both parents can set aside their rancor and act in the children's best interests, divorce does not have to result in damaged kids. Kids are much more resilient than we give them credit for. It is the adults that cause all of the problems in a divorce.


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## missinglife (May 1, 2012)

working_together said:


> Friendly, not friends. My ex wants to be friends, go out for coffee do the family thing...hello, we're not together anymore.
> 
> I think that if the parents can seriously put their differences aside for the sake of their kids, they can recover from the divorce. Some parents have no clue how destructive they are towards their kids because they're just caught up in their own pain. Talking negatively in front of the kids is the worst thing a parent can do. That in itself is very truamatizing for kids. Routine and consistancy is key in order for the kids to adjust.
> 
> I've only been separated for three months, but I can see the difference in my kids behavior since it first happened. They are adjusting ok, not perfect, but my ex is pretty reasonable that he never says a negative thing about me to them, keeps the same discipline I do, same rules etc.


:iagree:

My parents are divorced and they did their darnedest to keep it amicable. I only found out years later that it wasn't pretty. Yes, we kids had some immediate effects but no lasting long-term damage. It's how the parents handle it that matters most.


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

missinglife said:


> :iagree:
> 
> My parents are divorced and they did their darnedest to keep it amicable. I only found out years later that it wasn't pretty. Yes, we kids had some immediate effects but no lasting long-term damage. *It's how the parents handle it that matters most*.


Our MC said that since we have young children, the "communication" wouldn't be a 1 or 2 time occurrance, but rather, come up frequently in whatever stage of life they're at.

My parents divorced and I knew why. It was legit. 

Our divorce is based on "growing apart." It may be harder to explain to our children who have always seen us happy together. It might be harder for them to understand or accept the divorce. They might hold resentment at not trying, or copping out, rather than staying together.

I'm just venting because I'm the one who wants to work on the marriage, while my wife doesn't. There is no other man, either. I am slowly accepting the reality, but still feel bad at this outcome. 

And, I have had to handle our childrens' emotions several times, and it pains me. Nothing more I can do other than to process this with them and love them.

So sad.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Children are affected when parents badmouth each other, they witness verbal/physical altercations. I don't get why some parents have such a hard time at keeping it civil in front of the kids. Even if I don't want to see STBXW, she is part of the reason why I have my son. She gave birth to him. Do what's best for the kids. If you have to act happy, THEN DO IT. That's what I'm doing.


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## Andy968 (Apr 29, 2012)

I agree that being amicable will definately help the kids get through the divorce. Kids who observe good coping skills modeled by their parents during emotional relationship issues will have tools they can apply to their own marriage in the future. Having said that, divorce in my opinion, should be avoided unless their is criminal activity, i.e. drugs, abuse, fraud, financial irresonsiblity that cripples a the ability to provide for needs and stability. I know this sounds old fashioned. I feel the number of divorces in our country just makes marriage a cheap contract with nothing more than unspoken do over clauses written in the fine print. Till death do us part, for better or for worse truly doesn't mean anything. Marriage really isn't a marriage if you can just move on no questions asked if you've grown apart. I don't know, everything is so throw away and look after yourself first. Our kid's generation willl continue to model this. Maybe our society doesn't need strong families that were necessary when our country was agricultural. Maybe this is just cultural evolution toward the intellectual age of do what feels right and everyone can still be friendly. In reality everyone suffers during a divorce, the kids, the in-laws, extended family and friends. It seems the ease of divorce, the animosity it creates, the money wasted on lawyers, and tax dollars needed to support broken families, is the ultimate consequence of selfish behavior. Now having said all this, I am separated and the chance of my marriage reconciling is small. My kids are doing ok because my wife and I are amicable. I ask myself what are they learning about marriage? Is it cheap? Is it ok to punch out as long as everyone is amicable? What impact am I having on their future relationships? Time will tell...


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

I`ve never known a kid who wasn`t traumatized and messed up to some extent by their parents divorce well into adulthood.

Granted that`s only 6 kids known close as family but all of them are/were messed up by the experience.

I`m not saying staying for the kids is right, I`m just saying truth should be outed on this subject.

Kids NEVER take their parents splitting without some serious long lasting emotional turmoil


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## jpr (Dec 14, 2011)

I am a high school teacher, and sometimes think I could almost do a case study on this.

Honestly, on average, I can tell a difference between the kids that come from divorced homes and those that come from "intact" families. ...and I speaking in the general sense. I know that each situation is different. But, I have noticed that most of the kids in my advanced classes have both their mom and dad at home....and most of the kids in my remedial classes have step-parents coming in and out of their lives. These kids are constantly losing their homework and books because they are being shifted from their dad's home to their mom's home every other day. It is so hard, and so stressful for some of these kids. It is truly heartbreaking.

With that said, I think that it would be even worse for a child to grow up in a home where the parents verbally or emotionally abused each other. 

However, I do think it is a little bit reckless for your counselor to say that kids will be "okay". Of course, they will be okay. YOU are going to do everything in your power to make sure they are okay. But, this is not the ideal situation. The ideal situation would be for you and your spouse to try to sit down and try to work through your problems and TRY to keep this family together. But, if that isn't possible or if one spouse is refusing to try, then you are just going to have to suck it up, and try to make the best of a very poopy situation.

I have so many worries about my son growing up like this. I never wanted him to have to get carted around from his mom's house to his dad's house for the rest of his life. It makes me sick to my stomach to think about it. But, this wasn't really my choice...and I am trying to make sure that my son grows up in the most stable environment as possible.

I know it is possible...because I have seen some families and stepfamilies handle this situation wonderfully. However, this certainly isn't the ideal situation.


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## worrieddad (Nov 3, 2011)

Andy968 said:


> I agree that being amicable will definately help the kids get through the divorce. Kids who observe good coping skills modeled by their parents during emotional relationship issues will have tools they can apply to their own marriage in the future. Having said that, divorce in my opinion, should be avoided unless their is criminal activity, i.e. drugs, abuse, fraud, financial irresonsiblity that cripples a the ability to provide for needs and stability. I know this sounds old fashioned. I feel the number of divorces in our country just makes marriage a cheap contract with nothing more than unspoken do over clauses written in the fine print. Till death do us part, for better or for worse truly doesn't mean anything. Marriage really isn't a marriage if you can just move on no questions asked if you've grown apart. I don't know, everything is so throw away and look after yourself first. Our kid's generation willl continue to model this. Maybe our society doesn't need strong families that were necessary when our country was agricultural. Maybe this is just cultural evolution toward the intellectual age of do what feels right and everyone can still be friendly. In reality everyone suffers during a divorce, the kids, the in-laws, extended family and friends. It seems the ease of divorce, the animosity it creates, the money wasted on lawyers, and tax dollars needed to support broken families, is the ultimate consequence of selfish behavior. Now having said all this, I am separated and the chance of my marriage reconciling is small. My kids are doing ok because my wife and I are amicable. I ask myself what are they learning about marriage? Is it cheap? Is it ok to punch out as long as everyone is amicable? What impact am I having on their future relationships? Time will tell...


I agree with everything there. Heck, this pending divorce of mine has totally and utterly screwed MY idea of what marriage is all about, let alone my 5 year old girl, who at the minute is coping very well as she doesn't fully understand it and its all amicable...but its the future I worry about. Future partners and so on...the whole thing is just a huge mess to me, and marriage in our society today is nothing more than a cheap trick.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

jpr said:


> I am a high school teacher, and sometimes think I could almost do a case study on this.
> 
> Honestly, on average, I can tell a difference between the kids that come from divorced homes and those that come from "intact" families. ...and I speaking in the general sense.  I know that each situation is different. But, I have noticed that most of the kids in my advanced classes have both their mom and dad at home....and most of the kids in my remedial classes have step-parents coming in and out of their lives. These kids are constantly losing their homework and books because they are being shifted from their dad's home to their mom's home every other day. It is so hard, and so stressful for some of these kids. It is truly heartbreaking.
> 
> ...


Anger rant!

This is what pisses me off royally. My wife is choosing all of this for her reasons. I would be miserable with her and place my children first, if it meant staying married. However, I would hope I could fall in love with her, forgive the past and build a stronger relationship.

Yes, I made mistakes. Costly. Too costly for any other chance, apparently, although, no abuse, addiction, affair, arguing, etc. But, there's more than me in our situation. There are 2 young children. They are close to both of us. They don't want us separated. They don't want to be shuffled to and fro.

So, my wife, who is pursuing this because she just doesn't have the feeling so advertised and commercialized these days, is affecting several lives beyond her own. That's what I call selfish.

And, I speak this as a product of divorce which has affected my life. She has no experience with this. But, when I had brought all of this up, I am the stubborn SOB who has to win every argument.

That's why my anger is turned towards her. I am willing. She is not. And to compound things, there is no other man in her life. 

But hey, we get along in front of everyone, especially our children. The rest I keep to myself. There's no point in sharing my opinions anymore.


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

worrieddad said:


> I agree with everything there. Heck, this pending divorce of mine has totally and utterly screwed MY idea of what marriage is all about, let alone my 5 year old girl, who at the minute is coping very well as she doesn't fully understand it and its all amicable...but its the future I worry about. Future partners and so on...the whole thing is just a huge mess to me, and marriage in our society today is nothing more than a cheap trick.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yep. Tonight my 4 year old said she misses mommy when she is with me and misses me when she is with mommy. Can it be any simpler?

Yet, that's life, huh?

Just not right.


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## Wildflower3 (Nov 20, 2011)

jpr said:


> I am a high school teacher, and sometimes think I could almost do a case study on this.
> 
> Honestly, on average, I can tell a difference between the kids that come from divorced homes and those that come from "intact" families. ...and I speaking in the general sense. I know that each situation is different. But, I have noticed that most of the kids in my advanced classes have both their mom and dad at home....and most of the kids in my remedial classes have step-parents coming in and out of their lives. These kids are constantly losing their homework and books because they are being shifted from their dad's home to their mom's home every other day. It is so hard, and so stressful for some of these kids. It is truly heartbreaking.


I see the very same thing. I used talk to kids about their family lives and I could tell a major difference between those with "intact" families and those with step-parents or a sole single parent with no other parent involved. The kids who are in the IB program or in AP classes, etc, were the ones in nuclear families. The ones in my classes who earned consistently good grades, participate in class, follow directions, have more self control, stay organized, etc, are just those kids. They eat dinner as a family, both parents very involved in their educations and extra curricular activities, etc. They have conversations with their parents. The kids who I have the most trouble with - both in terms of academics and discipline - were the ones from broken families. It really is heartbreaking. And such a scary thought seeing as I am not a single mom of THREE! Never thought I'd be one of "them". 

I used to pride myself in making sure we sat as a family at dinner time and had family time after dinner just talking and playing. I used to think "this is what it's about". Wow, now look. Boy how things change when you get the rug pulled from under you. I hope that my kids turn out well. We both are trying our best, but I know that they want us together and they want us to do things together as a family. Just isn't going to happen anymore.

Funny OP brought this thread up because I asked the exact same question to my therapist yesterday. Will they be okay? We've talked about it before, but I did have more specific questions on how to handle different things. 

His honest answer? None of us know how they will turn out, no matter what you do or say. And with three kids, they may turn out differently. They will all have their own perspectives on things because they are all different people, albeit little people. He said my job is to talk to them, show them I love them, allow them to express their emotions, be open and ready to listen when they want to talk about it and when they have questions. Make sure I foster good emotional health. In terms of questions about the whys in terms of their father - my job is to not trash him, not make excuses for him, not lie for him and simply say "you're just going to have to ask daddy about that..." He can only speak for himself because only he knows what's going on in his head (that thick skull of his). I can only answer questions about the whys about my perspective. 

I think they'll be okay. They're adjusting, but there will always be triggers. For all of us.


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## jpr (Dec 14, 2011)

Jayb said:


> Anger rant!
> 
> This is what pisses me off royally. My wife is choosing all of this for her reasons. *I would be miserable with her and place my children first, if it meant staying married. However, I would hope I could fall in love with her, forgive the past and build a stronger relationship.
> *
> ...



I totally understand where that anger is coming from. At one point, I , too, was just soooooo incredibly angry at my ex's selfishness. How could he do this to our son?! What about all of the promises he made to our son? ...to me?

Yes, I know I was not perfect either...and, I know in my heart at one time all this "could have" been fixed.

But, then I finally got to the point in my journey through all this when I finally just had to give up all the "could have's"...."should be's"...I gave them all up. I gave up thinking that way, and I stopped my brain from thinking about thee things--because,in reality, I had no control over them. I couldn't MAKE my ex-husband try. I wished so badly for so long that he would just TRY to work things out. Just TRY. But, I couldn't make him try. So, I gave all that up...and with it, the angry finally went away.

I just dealt with it. This is my life. No, it is not what I had planned it to be. It is not exactly what I had in mind for how my life would pan out, but I am going to make the best of it and take control of the things that I can control. --and stop putting energy into things I can't control.

One day, hopefully for you the anger will subside. Yes,I am still disgusted with my ex-husband. But, I am past all the anger and bitterness. ...and I am trying to focus my energy into building a brighter future for me and my son.

It sounds like you are doing the best that you can right now. It is admirable that you are trying to put on a happy face for your kids. But, yes, this does stink. It stinks bad!--and it is not fair. ...and you have a right to be angry. (...just not in front of the kids.  )


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## worrieddad (Nov 3, 2011)

Jayb I think we are generally in the same boat. That reminds me, my daughter the other night said "daddy, can we all live in the same house again soon"? It really cut into me....I was at a loss for words.


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

worrieddad said:


> Jayb I think we are generally in the same boat. That reminds me, my daughter the other night said "daddy, can we all live in the same house again soon"? It really cut into me....I was at a loss for words.


We've been separated almost 10 months. 

I've had to hold both of my children on the kitchen floor all crying come home, daddy. I told them I want to, but just can't. That stings beyond words.

Or, I've had to deal with the breakdowns of, "I want to be at the house with mommy. Your place is boring." I want to be with mommy............


And, we have 50-50. And I have toys, video games, movies, food, snacks, big area, etc.

Again, more pain I have had to carry.


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## worrieddad (Nov 3, 2011)

Jayb said:


> Or, I've had to deal with the breakdowns of, "I want to be at the house with mommy. Your place is boring." I want to be with mommy............


Yep, that's another thing, only set to get worse as they grow - playing one against the other. Even when the parents are completely amicable, this is bound to happen. New partners etc...will only exacerbate it. While some divorces are necessary, I think these whole "I'm sooo unhappy" cases (when you've got the world, basically) are just complete baloney; a pathetic blight on a society who's really got it far too easy and watches far too much Entertainment Tonight.


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## I want the kids! (Apr 17, 2012)

Amen to both of you. Pure baloney. I am in the same boat as you guys. I'm 5 weeks in.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

My parents divorced when I was 2. My dad saw me when it was convenient. I didn't see him at all from ages 7 to 21. After that it was once or twice a year until I was 26 and he had cancer...I then had a relationship with my dad for 2 years (after some HEAVY talks first) and was proud to have known him before he died.

My mom and step-dad divorced when I was 12. I was HAPPY they divorced because the fighting was worse. I had two homes then. My mom moved only 5 miles from my childhood home and my stepdad lived there until he passed 2 years ago in June. My stepdad raised me from 4 to 18...I had a room at his house, we were pals!  I was his kid. I had a room at my mom's. She was my mom. I had 2 of every holiday. I had my mom's family and my stepdad's family. I loved it.......until.....he remarried a lady when I was 18 and she hated me. He lost his spine and turned his back on me. Again I was abandoned by a father. 

So, the divorces didn't bother me. I was a happy kid! I had a great childhood and it was full of love and parental involvement. My stepdad coached my softball teams well after the divorce. We would go camping and on small trips. He was my dad....until he wasn't my dad.

The ABANDONMENT ruined me. I had issues that I THOUGHT I had dealt with. NOT from divorce of my parents, but from being ABANDONED and thrown away like trash by not 1, but BOTH dads.

THAT effed me up. Not the divorce.

I have had therapy for the abandonment issues because they almost ruined my marriage. The effects of being abandon puts you in constant survival mode...never letting your guard down...always waiting for your mate to leave or let you go. That's how i lived my first 2 years of marriage. Always expecting him to leave. And then he did. And I realized my worst fear...and I survived. 

After some deep therapy and horrible times bringing up old shet, I feel healed. With the death of my fathers, I have closure.

but yea, it wasn't the divorce, it was being, in my eyes, not good enough to fight for me (my real dad didn't try to see me, my stepdad wouldn't tell his wife to stfu) and not feeling important to anyone.

LUCKILY, Hubs understood my issues and even though he moved out because of my behaviour caused by my issues, he helped me work through them.

My daughter's father and I broke up when she was 2. We co-parented for 9 years. 1/2 the week at my house, 1/2 at his. We lived 4 miles from each other and PUT OUR DIFFERENCES ASIDE BECAUSE IT WAS FOR OUR CHILD. We gave her an AWESOME childhood. She is a happy child. She had a loving mommy and a loving daddy. BOTH of us very involved.

Then he decided to become a musician and basically rescinded his fatherly duty....THIS has put my 12 year old in therapy. NOT the break up.

So...there's two stories where the break up/divorce didn't matter....but the ABANDONMENT did.

Sorry for the novel.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Yea, i can see that. Children internalize things so much differently than adults. I had to basically comfort my inner child and let her know she was no longer needed to protect me...because when she ran my emotions and life, it was fight or flight.

My mom never dated again. I don't understand why, but she had 3 horrible marriages, so i get it. That being said, she was VERY stable for me and raised me and put her life aside. now she's livin it up...traveling, being gramma, has friends. it's good.

My stepdad didn't date until I was a late teen. I didn't care that he got married again, it was the fact that he just let me go. We barely spoke for 10 years after that, and now he's dead. 

Are you getting help for those issues? Abandonment issues run deep and until you get to the root and realize you don't need that old way of coping, you'll forever repeat the pattern...I have a string of people I 'effed over' before they could eff me over. Not cool.

Then there's people like my husband whose parents SHOULD have divorced...but didn't. Instead they stay together and it's unbearable for the children, forever tainting the idea of marriage...which is what Hubs has worked through.

No matter what though, people grow up with some baggage. Best we can do is love our children, support them, answer their questions and remind them it's not their fault.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

I grew up living with my mom and never knowing my dad until I helped get them back together at 21. Even though I didn't get a chance to know him before, I know it screwed my up! I never got a chance to grow emotionally lose to another father figure or any of the men and women my mother dated. And as a result I turned into a mamma's boy wimp and hated my dad. It doesn't matter which parents have custody the children that live with them will adopt their views and take their side.

My STBXW also grew up with family problems with an emotional abusive and adulterous father, and a depressed distant mother. No suprise there when found out how codependent she was and that cheating ways run in the family. She also was closer to her mother except every time her dad left to screw over the poor family, she blamed herself for not being the daughter he wanted. It was really sad hearing how she was his favorite until he cheated and emotionally checked out but still hung around. I mean sleeping on the sofa and drinking his @$$ off everynight, and ignoring the women of the house.

I have done a great deal of therapy since I was a child and recent MC. But nothing prepared me for my childish parents trying to call me so they could drag me into their fight. Don't let a therapist who gets paid to make you feel better step over your red flags and fill your head with crap. It is true that the healthier your relationship with your ex is, the better your children will cope with this. However, that's just not going to happen in every case. You both need time to cool off and being forced into socially awkward situations with your ex will only cause problems. If you have to set up an arrangement where you don't have to see or speak to your ex for visitation rights until you are ready. Give it a year or two to calm down and see that you are better of without the dependency close relationships encourage and how you don't need him to be happy, but you don't have to avoid him to be at peace of mind. You don't have to fear being dependent again, but it will help you far more in the future to establish interdepentent tendencies and not enable people to cross cetain boundaries again and again. To put it another way, you punish the bad and reward the good.... and never chase anyone who makes it clear they don't want you.

What really helped me was to learn about relationships through books and experiences. You see the first relationships we form in life with our mothers and fathers, twins, or emotionally closer care-takers sets the bar for our other relationships later on. As I see it Freud was partially right in that you seek the emotional support similar to what you had when growing up, not that you want to sleep with your opposit sex parent. And you adopt the coping techniques to soothe yourself and carry those with you into adulthood. So if you learned that being emotionally distant when your parents where fighting helped you avoid feeling stressed, you'll use distancing to potect yourself in conflicts with marriage to avoid feeling responsble or guilty. Like wise codependent good girls and guys will try to avoid conflict or settle differences ASAP and risk others losing respect for them to keep things peaceful. Except the same feeling of contempt and guilt will arise and eventually the more extreme people will seek out unhealthy, emotionally dependant, addicted care-taker, and abusive relationships. But all of these re learne traits that can b unlearned over time.

See if any of this sounds familiar for you or your partner for at leat 80% of the time. There's nothing wrong with being needy towards each other at times but constant codependency hurts you more in the end. 
The Intuitive Self - Author - Bill Taggart


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

3leafclover said:


> OP, you are not that way. You've already recognized the trouble your son had 6 months ago when there was talk of separation. Just keep a close eye on him, make sure he adjusts (it will take time) and that his coping skills are not overwhelmed. Keep his life as stable as _you_ can make it despite whatever your wife does. And yes, try to be civil to your ex when having to deal with her regarding your child, especially in front of him. Even if you have to bite your tongue 'til it's bloody. Even if you have to hold it all in and then vent it all to us later when your child is asleep. This doesn't mean letting her cross personal boundaries (which you definitely will need to stay sane), but you can be distantly friendly and not overtly angry in your interactions.


I call this "passing the marshmallow test":smthumbup: 
And if you can remember to be kind over being honest, you'll live a much happier life than you would bruding over and fighting with your ex. Save your freakouts for the treadmill and fill your emotional need with people and not.... junk food, bad and meaningless relationships, hoarding, pets, drugs, chocolate,or alcohol.

You're not alone there 3LC, I was obese my entire life until I lost 75lbs at 19 before I joined the Navy. There I still used food a my coping tool and ballooned up nicely. Now that I'm on mood stailizers and utilize intermittent fasting I don't gain weight like I used to. I'm still chunky, but after almost a year of serious lifting and diet.... aside from occasional junk food once in a while (dorrito's supreme tacos, pizza, donuts) I'm more muscular and 52 lbs lighter.


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

worrieddad said:


> Yep, that's another thing, only set to get worse as they grow - playing one against the other. Even when the parents are completely amicable, this is bound to happen. New partners etc...will only exacerbate it. While some divorces are necessary, I think these whole *"I'm sooo unhappy" cases (when you've got the world, basically) are just complete baloney; a pathetic blight on a society who's really got it far too easy and watches far too much Entertainment Tonight.*


I think this is true for my situation. Of course, I realize I contributed to the overall failure of the marriage. But, now, I realize it. I am determined to change and better myself. My wife doesn't have faith that my changes would last. She's too afraid. And, she doesn't love me enough to stick it out and try.

Meanwhile, she loves her independence, which at this time, involves going out with her married girlfriends to concerts, movies, dinners, and exercise classes. Wow. I lost out to that. As long as I'm away, her misery no longer exists.

TBH, I don't know what she's looking for. I think she's in a fog that's been perpetuated by her friends, entertainment tonight, and an unfulfilling marriage. Instead of working on herself and the marriage and commiting to me, she is content at being alone. 

And being this way, despite our 2 young children. Just more burden for her to carry.

If she does meet someone down the road, most likely it will be a divorcee with children, we will then deal with new sets of issues. She will be leaving one (our marriage and children) and opening up another (new man, his children, mixed families).


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

3leafclover said:


> Agree, agree, agree.
> 
> My son was only 1 year old when his dad and I separated and then divorced. He doesn't even remember us together, but he still has been greatly affected by it. He's 15 now, and we actually just had a candid conversation about this topic a few weeks ago. I forget how it even came up, but he was very honest about how being a child of divorce has affected him in a negative way.
> 
> ...


I can vouch for the negative impact of divorce that lasts into adulthood. Happened to me.

My wife is an only child whose parents are still married after 40 some years.

I tried to explain all of this to her several times. But, she is completely sold into the "I need to be happy alone or with someone else rather than to be married to you". Even though we had the upper middle class life, even though there have been no blatant issues (arguing, abuse, affairs, etc.).

She is sold on the premise that as long as the 2 of us are on good terms, our children will be fine. Any argument against that will be labeled as selfish, stubborn, etc.

I can't argue past that line of defense. Our MC couldn't bring her past that line of defense.

This is all about her and her not feeling the love thing.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

tacoma said:


> I`ve never known a kid who wasn`t traumatized and messed up to some extent by their parents divorce well into adulthood.
> 
> Granted that`s only 6 kids known close as family but all of them are/were messed up by the experience.
> 
> ...


I`ll add a caveat to this eariel post of mine.

The experiences I`ve been involved with concerning children of divorce were all personal and familial.

However, as That_Girl has said they also involved fatherly abandonment.
She is undoubtedly right that this is a more serious harm than the actual divorce itself and may be coloring my view due to personal involvement.


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## worrieddad (Nov 3, 2011)

Jayb said:


> I think this is true for my situation. Of course, I realize I contributed to the overall failure of the marriage. But, now, I realize it. I am determined to change and better myself. My wife doesn't have faith that my changes would last. She's too afraid. And, she doesn't love me enough to stick it out and try.


*Exactly* the same here. We had hours of chats about our mutual failings. Nowadays however, I'm not inclined to changing/bettering myself (for her, anyway). I always accepted who she was; not the other way round it seems. So I'm totally done playing that "Beating myself up" game - whichever way you skin it, she's the quitter, not me.



Jayb said:


> Meanwhile, she loves her independence, which at this time, involves going out with her married girlfriends to concerts, movies, dinners, and exercise classes. Wow. I lost out to that. As long as I'm away, her misery no longer exists.
> 
> TBH, I don't know what she's looking for. I think she's in a fog that's been perpetuated by her friends, entertainment tonight, and an unfulfilling marriage. Instead of working on herself and the marriage and commiting to me, she is content at being alone.
> 
> And being this way, despite our 2 young children. Just more burden for her to carry.


Again, same thing here. To combat this, I took a leaf straight out of her book...because when I put my mind to it, I can party like the best of 'em....and I have done, over the last 6 weeks or so and its been a blast. But....for me, it always comes back round to our daughter. Little things she says and does, like the one I mentioned earlier - while my stbx refuses to let herself see it, I know our little girl wants us together as a family. Not this pseudo family we've become. I've only been acting like I have because of my attempts to get a grip of the situation that was forced upon me - I'd never have carried on the way I have been doing lately if she hadn't put the hammer down on the marriage.



Jayb said:


> If she does meet someone down the road, most likely it will be a divorcee with children, we will then deal with new sets of issues. She will be leaving one (our marriage and children) and opening up another (new man, his children, mixed families).


Its pretty much inevitable this will happen sooner or later. Not just her, you also, and its most likely going to be as you describe (divorcee with kids etc). And all of this angst, for what? Just seems really selfish to me, and while kids will adapt, I'm not so sure the adaptations they will undertake are for the better.


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

worrieddad said:


> *Exactly* the same here. We had hours of chats about our mutual failings. Nowadays however, I'm not inclined to changing/bettering myself (for her, anyway). I always accepted who she was; not the other way round it seems. So I'm totally done playing that "Beating myself up" game - whichever way you skin it, she's the quitter, not me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



In my situation, I filed for D last fall. I did it in a period when I drank every day and lived in bitterness, anger, sadness, day in and day out. I figured she would file later, just when I thought things were smooth. I wanted to hurt her like I hurt.

In early January, I stopped all of that. Begged for another chance. 

But, alas to no avail. We agreed to put a hold on the D proceedings for 90 days. That period will end here in a week or 2, and my wife still wants to finalize this.

I care for my children and detest my failings in our marriage. I want it known that I did all I could to save us. This is on her.

That being said, the result and aftermath are the same. 

But, my heart breaks and will, for as long as we're apart.


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