# Caught and still denying...



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

Hello. I have never posted anything like this before so please bear with me. I have never had to.. My husband (of18 years) confessed to me in October that he has been talking to someone that does business with his work. I had a feeling so kept prying. He said it was just flirting and talking/texting. Okay... He promised it would stop. He said if she contacted him he would not respond, etc. Okay... so, I am going about my business- in January, he accidentally texts me a message meant for another woman. Seriously?! He said it was not the same woman, but an old friend from Facebook. Wow!!! So, I am here trying to get past this, as he deleted her from Facebook, etc. I am guarded and trying to make this work as we have kids, etc. He has promised, sworn on my kids lives, etc. that nothing like this is going to happen again, I am the one, blah blah blah... Again, just talking- this girl lives in another state. Okay. So, just four days ago, on our way out the door on Spring Break with the kids, he says he has to make some last minute phone calls to work (he is the boss) and check on everyone- this is not out of the ordinary, but the fact that he went in a room and closed the door was. So, being untrusting and alert, I listen. He is whispering.. Really? Well, he "feels" me at the door and comes out like a bear... So, now I know it is another woman. Which one? The same one? A different one? I am so confused. He is in complete denial. I went along on the trip so the kids would be okay. He has been so nice to me (probably guilt). When I try to bring it up he asks me not to talk about it.. Says there is no one else. Ugh! I am surprised at how I am handling this. I would like to throw up. I am thinking about the kids. I don't know what to do. He says he loves me and wants to be with me always. He said the last time that he doesn't deserve me, etc. He was so sorry, it was over and now this.. I just don't know what to do. Any suggestions other than an automatic Leave Him? I am heartbroken and just sick... Any suggestions on how to get him to talk? Etc?Thank you.


----------



## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

Ultimatum and be prepared to stick to it come hell or high water.

Either he fesses up or you file for divorce. It is better to be a single mom than to deal with trust issues and infidelity whether it's an emotional affair or a physical one.


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

You cannot talk him out of an affair - emotional (EA) or physical (PA) - it's too addictive. If you try he will gas light you (try to make you think you're crazy - like it sounds like he's been doing to you) or blame shift and try to tell you it's all your fault. 

So how to get him to talk? You will have to collect enough evidence of his actions that he cannot spin it, that he must face it for what it is. Text messages, emails, facebook history, phone logs are all places you can start. You can also put a voice activated recorder in his car. Once you have evidence you will have to confront him. If you want him to quit the affair you will have to tell him that you will not accept three people in your marriage and as long as he has a girlfriend you will not tolerate him. Here's the rub though - he may not end the affair despite all of this. In that case you will have to decide if you are willing to take it all the way to divorce, assuming you are that's what you'll have to tell him, and again, even then he may not quit. All you can really do is decide what you will and won't accept, what the consequences are, explain those to him and act accordingly.

The best analogy for how to treat him is like a drug addict. You very often have to give addicts "tough love" to break their addiction before you can really help him. Pulling a cheater out of an affair is virtually identical. Find the newbie thread here and read it - it will help.


----------



## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> You cannot talk him out of an affair - emotional (EA) or physical (PA) - it's too addictive. If you try he will gas light you (try to make you think you're crazy - like it sounds like he's been doing to you) or blame shift and try to tell you it's all your fault.
> 
> So how to get him to talk? You will have to collect enough evidence of his actions that he cannot spin it, that he must face it for what it is. Text messages, emails, facebook history, phone logs are all places you can start. You can also put a voice activated recorder in his car. Once you have evidence you will have to confront him. If you want him to quit the affair you will have to tell him that you will not accept three people in your marriage and as long as he has a girlfriend you will not tolerate him. Here's the rub though - he may not end the affair despite all of this. In that case you will have to decide if you are willing to take it all the way to divorce, assuming you are that's what you'll have to tell him, and again, even then he may not quit. All you can really do is decide what you will and won't accept, what the consequences are, explain those to him and act accordingly.
> 
> The best analogy for how to treat him is like a drug addict. You very often have to give addicts "tough love" to break their addiction before you can really help him. Pulling a cheater out of an affair is virtually identical. Find the newbie thread here and read it - it will help.


:iagree:

And get prepared for him to be very very angry...people don't like having all their fun taken away.


----------



## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Can you get a printout of the calls made from that telephone to see what phone number was called?


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

Will_Kane said:


> Can you get a printout of the calls made from that telephone to see what phone number was called?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

No. It's his cell phone paid thru the company he works for. I cannot get to it or his computer as he has them w him every second. I never thought I would be that person who is so conflicted. I would have thought after the first time that it would have been over. Here I am on number 3. I honestly don't think it's physical-YET.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> You cannot talk him out of an affair - emotional (EA) or physical (PA) - it's too addictive. If you try he will gas light you (try to make you think you're crazy - like it sounds like he's been doing to you) or blame shift and try to tell you it's all your fault.
> 
> So how to get him to talk? You will have to collect enough evidence of his actions that he cannot spin it, that he must face it for what it is. Text messages, emails, facebook history, phone logs are all places you can start. You can also put a voice activated recorder in his car. Once you have evidence you will have to confront him. If you want him to quit the affair you will have to tell him that you will not accept three people in your marriage and as long as he has a girlfriend you will not tolerate him. Here's the rub though - he may not end the affair despite all of this. In that case you will have to decide if you are willing to take it all the way to divorce, assuming you are that's what you'll have to tell him, and again, even then he may not quit. All you can really do is decide what you will and won't accept, what the consequences are, explain those to him and act accordingly.
> 
> The best analogy for how to treat him is like a drug addict. You very often have to give addicts "tough love" to break their addiction before you can really help him. Pulling a cheater out of an affair is virtually identical. Find the newbie thread here and read it - it will help.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

You are right! I thought those same things about it being an addiction. He gets tons of attention at home. He is well taken care of. I think it's a midlife crisis. I am trying to gather info but he is good at keeping it under lock and key. But I have my notes with dates etc. thanks for your help. I appreciate it. Like I posted to another person- I never thought I would be the person who didn't end it right away. I guess 18 years and two kids will do that to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

You know he's cheating and, from your few posts, we know he's cheating. If he's not cheating, what is he doing? Playing the screw-up-your-marriage-for-no-good-reason game?

In a normal relationship, if your spouse comes to you and says, I am not comfortable with your behavior, then lays out events that have occurred such as you have, and asks, may I please see your call log so I can verify you are not cheating and you really called work and not some other woman, what would be the result?

In a normal relationship, if there was no cheating, the spouse may be offended, but would hand over the phone and call log. They might be offended and angry, or they might find the concern completely understandable, but either way they would turn over the call log.

You know he's cheating and he knows he's cheating. You really don't need any more evidence. You can divorce him even if he's not cheating.

I do not understand why betrayed spouses are willing to tolerate so much lying and disrespect and not stand up for themselves and feel the need for definitive evidence they can physically rub in the cheater's face.

Sit down with your husband. Tell him you KNOW he's been cheating. Tell him he has 15 minutes to come clean or you will file for divorce. Do not tell him how you know or give him any other details. IF YOU ARE FEELING MERCIFUL, tell him, if he is not cheating, he has to prove it to you by giving you all texts, call logs, access to all communication devices and records. If he doesn't want to do that, that's evidence enough that he has something to hide. If he would rather lose his marriage than do that, then let him lose it. Why tolerate being cheated on three times? It won't make a bit of difference in a divorce case. If you doubt this, see a lawyer and get advice before you confront. If he says, you can't prove I'm cheating, tell him, I don't have to prove it, I KNOW it and if you don't want to be honest with me, I don't have to prove it, I can divorce you anyway.

Why do you want to go through your life playing mommy or baby-sitter to a little boy who can't behave himself? If you are a grown-up, ditch the little boy and find another grown-up to live your life with.


----------



## Lone Star (Feb 2, 2012)

if he is not cheating, he has to prove it to you by giving you all texts, call logs, access to all communication devices and records. If he doesn't want to do that, that's evidence enough that he has something to hide.
--------------------------------
EXACTLY!!! Innocent people don't do things to deliberatley look guilty. Stick to your gut feeling, don't listen to his lame excuses. You have a tough decision to make about filing for divorce. I understand, I was in the same position just a few months ago. I filed for divorce even though it is against my moral and spiritual belief but at the same time I could no longer put up with the lies and cheating.


----------



## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

He's cheating, he's lying, and he's not going to come clean about it no matter how many times you ask, beg, demand, or anything else.

So try another strategy.

Either get the information yourself another way or just forget about it because it really doesn't change anything.


----------



## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

Your guts never fail.
But gut feeling should be differentiated from minds overtime working arising out of insecurity. Okay?

Now that you have questions, you should be vigilant.
From what I have read it appears that he is atleast in an EA. Maybe a PA.
However, you should act normal and start your investigations. Gather possible evidences BEFORE you confront.
Act normal, why? So that he will not get his affair further underground. I guess he has got the feeling that you started having doubts. So be very careful and tactful.

There are many ways to do evidencing.

VAR is an effective one. 
Keylogger.
Cell phone monintoring. Preferable in your case.
PI? possible for you?

Dont get into anger as I did. Dont come out a loser.


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

Will_Kane said:


> You know he's cheating and, from your few posts, we know he's cheating. If he's not cheating, what is he doing? Playing the screw-up-your-marriage-for-no-good-reason game?
> 
> In a normal relationship, if your spouse comes to you and says, I am not comfortable with your behavior, then lays out events that have occurred such as you have, and asks, may I please see your call log so I can verify you are not cheating and you really called work and not some other woman, what would be the result?
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

I always thought that "why do people put up w that" until it happened to me. I've always been self reliant and strong or I thought. This has just blown me away. Maybe it's shock. I don't know. But you are exactly right. I need to dig the real me out and say that I know and he knows and this is how it's going to be or I'm moving on. My kids don't need to be subject to that behavior either. Actually from either of us. So thanks for your advice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

hrtbkngrl said:


> I always thought that "why do people put up w that" until it happened to me. I've always been self reliant and strong or I thought. This has just blown me away. Maybe it's shock. I don't know. But you are exactly right. I need to dig the real me out and say that I know and he knows and this is how it's going to be or I'm moving on. My kids don't need to be subject to that behavior either. Actually from either of us. So thanks for your advice.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are where I was 3 years ago, except I knew who the woman was. You need to find out her id and situation or you're fighting for your marriage with one hand tied behind your back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> You are where I was 3 years ago, except I knew who the woman was. You need to find out her id and situation or you're fighting for you marriage with one hand tied behind your back.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

There is no way he is telling me- which is bs, so I'm not sure how to find out. He would really have to slip up for me to get ahold of his phone or laptop. The bills go to the company he works for so no records of numbers for me to see. I feel like I need to know. It's driving me insane. What did you do? What was your outcome?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

hrtbkngrl said:


> There is no way he is telling me- which is bs, so I'm not sure how to find out. He would really have to slip up for me to get ahold of his phone or laptop. The bills go to the company he works for so no records of numbers for me to see. I feel like I need to know. It's driving me insane. What did you do? What was your outcome?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We are together and recommitted.
It's an addiction, he will hide it better now, do not tip your hand
You need to learn about infidelity, save youself years of mistakes and hearetache. You don't know enough to choose to stay or go
Read Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass
Read the posts and see the patterns
Trust nothing he says right now
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

heartbroke,

He is stringing you along. He knows he been exposed, but is buying time for the moment. Years ago I was in your shoes with my wife. I had the gut feeling due to months of strange behavior she was showing me but no hard evidence. I still confronted. I got nothing but denials. Did she stop?

NO!

She just started to show me affection and telling me I had nothing to worry about. In reality she took her affair deeper underground to buy time to plan her "exit strategy". I got the ILYBNILWY we need to separate on Christmas Night after all activities had ended. In her mind, she didn't want to screw up Christmas day for the family. 

Be prepared, the reality of affair is generally 100 times worse than when first exposed.


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

You'll likely need a VAR or three for the car and home etc. I know it sounds bizarre. Your only other option is to demand his phone suddenly, but if he just cleared it or he says no, you'll have made it even harder. So don't do that until you have good independent confirmation and are ready to fully confront. Wait for TAM vets to confirm you're ready.

The info is to confirm what's going on, so you can take the next step of enlisting outside help. Cheaters are even more addicted to lying than to their AP. They tell themselves what you don't know won't hurt you; just more of their fog BS._Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> You'll likely need a VAR or three for the car and home etc. I know it sounds bizarre. Your only other option is to demand his phone suddenly, but if he just cleared it or he says no, you'll have made it even harder. So don't do that until you have good independent confirmation and are ready to fully confront. Wait for TAM vets to confirm you're ready.
> 
> The info is to confirm what's going on, so you can take the next step of enlisting outside help. Cheaters are even more addicted to lying than to their AP. They tell themselves what you don't know won't hurt you; just more of their fog BS._Posted via Mobile Device_


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

Thank you. I've actually been checking them out online today. He came home early today so I will have to do more tomorrow. The VAR sounds like a great idea.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## baldmale (Dec 29, 2010)

Var and/or hire a Private Investigator to catch him.


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

Well here is a follow up. As I posted before my H was being super nice and loving to me after I accused him of being on the phone with another woman right before our trip. Well, he has continued to be nice and loving and attentive since. I brought up the phone call up again, two days ago because it is eating away at me. He again denied it and said nothing is going on, he was talking to no one and got really angry at me for not trying to trust him after all he has been doing to show he loves me. Okay, so I felt like a chump and sent him an email apologizing and putting myself in his shoes about trust, getting on with it, etc. So, he took the afternoon off of work today and we went to Lowe's to get some gardening things. Well, he was texting away and kept walking away from me (he doesn't do that when it's his employees) so I get suspicious but say to myself get over it... then he says he has to go back inside and look for some nails well he takes a while so I went in to see what he was up to. He's not by the nails. I see him on the phone by the wood. Okay... Well I walk in the aisle next to him to see if I can hear and just his posture and low tone and reaction when I came around the corner told me that it was the other person again. Are you kidding me? So, I ask who he is speaking to and he says one of his employees. BS! I call him on it, the whole way home in the truck. Told him that I was willing to work on it if he would lay it out on the table. He continues to deny it, just keeps saying he is sick of me not trusting him that there is nothing going on and doesn't matter what he does or says I won't believe him. I said make me believe you, etc. Bottom line he is not here now. He didn't want to lay it out on the table so that just confirmed it for me. Why does he keep denying it? Am I the one who is paranoid and crazy? I figure if there were really nothing going on he would be angry but not leave and would try to make me believe, right? I don't know what is going to go on now? He just sent me a text and asked me to stay at my parents' house tonight, apparently he can't find anywhere to go. Sorry.


----------



## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

hrtbkngrl said:


> Well here is a follow up. As I posted before my H was being super nice and loving to me after I accused him of being on the phone with another woman right before our trip. Well, he has continued to be nice and loving and attentive since. I brought up the phone call up again, two days ago because it is eating away at me. He again denied it and said nothing is going on, he was talking to no one and got really angry at me for not trying to trust him after all he has been doing to show he loves me. Okay, so I felt like a chump and sent him an email apologizing and putting myself in his shoes about trust, getting on with it, etc. So, he took the afternoon off of work today and we went to Lowe's to get some gardening things. Well, he was texting away and kept walking away from me (he doesn't do that when it's his employees) so I get suspicious but say to myself get over it... then he says he has to go back inside and look for some nails well he takes a while so I went in to see what he was up to. He's not by the nails. I see him on the phone by the wood. Okay... Well I walk in the aisle next to him to see if I can hear and just his posture and low tone and reaction when I came around the corner told me that it was the other person again. Are you kidding me? So, I ask who he is speaking to and he says one of his employees. BS! I call him on it, the whole way home in the truck. Told him that I was willing to work on it if he would lay it out on the table. He continues to deny it, just keeps saying he is sick of me not trusting him that there is nothing going on and doesn't matter what he does or says I won't believe him. I said make me believe you, etc. Bottom line he is not here now. He didn't want to lay it out on the table so that just confirmed it for me. Why does he keep denying it? Am I the one who is paranoid and crazy? I figure if there were really nothing going on he would be angry but not leave and would try to make me believe, right? I don't know what is going to go on now? He just sent me a text and asked me to stay at my parents' house tonight, apparently he can't find anywhere to go. Sorry.


He is in an affair. Probably an EA. You don't leave. He does. He has the power to allay all your fears right now by showing you the phone records and texts. This is gaslighting. Do not let him make you feel like you're crazy. You're not.


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Dear: WHY are you confronting without evidence? You are making sure he hides it better until you're tricked into thinking it's over. Please listen!

You are just making the same mistakes I made. STOP. You need to get his phone. Is it passworded?

If you drive this underground this could go on for YEARS. Please don't do what I did!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Well u have your proof right there now. And on top of that, he walked out. Double confirmation. Believe what you are seeing and hearing, don't doubt yourself. 

Read other posts here. You will see your situation mirrored, your husbands behaviour mirrored, and the outcome will be exactly as you believe it to be and not the BS he is telling you. It is as though there is a cheaters handbook that is there, default actions and behaviours they ALL seem to use...and your situation is no different. Very sad. When I say your situation, his behaviour is classic, and so is yours. Once you educate yourself a bit more on their behaviour, once you stop questioning yourself and making excuses for him, and stop allowing him to feed you his stupid excuses, then you will be strong in yourself, your belief, and you will get the outcome that is needed to move your situation forward. Good luck.


----------



## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

hrtbkngrl said:


> He just sent me a text and asked me to stay at my parents' house tonight, apparently he can't find anywhere to go. Sorry.


Do not leave your house.

If this gets ugly, like divorce ugly, having left the house is bad for you.

You don`t need anymore evidence.

Did you ask to see his phone when you busted him at Lowes?


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

Well before I asked to see his phone he looked like he was texting and then handed me the held the phone in my face to see the call history/not scroll through or anything. I automatically asked if he deleted it (I figured that was what he was doing before he handed it to me) Then I proceeded to tell him to let me check his email, facebook and text messages. He said forget it it wouldn't matter anyways. That was proof to me that he has something to hide and I told him that(maybe I shouldn't have). He is trying to make me feel guilty now because he has no where to go. He is getting very angry because I am not begging him to come home or caring where he is. I packed a bag, pillow and blanket and told him if he wants it that it's on the front porch. That was as nice as it was going to get for me tonight. He is totally gaslighting me (of course I am questioning and still know he is gaslighting me). Going crazy is more like it. 

iHeartlife: I want to work this out. It doesn't seem that he does. He left. I didn't tell him to. It was his decision. I haven't had the chance to get at VAR. He will not give me his phone or any passwords. I have no access to it. I don't know what else to do. I told him I was willing to lay it all out. He is not. Just keeps saying that I am doing this and there is nothing going on. I couldn't help myself asking him about the phone call and then freaking out. I have a very hard time keeping things in that are bothering me. Since I have done this do you have any additional advice for me? Just sit still and wait for him to calm down?


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

I was reading through my first post. I was so upset that I didn't even mention that back in November when I first discovered and he confessed that he was talking to another woman that I had smelled strong perfume on his shirt. He shrugged it off that one of the ladies at work hugged him that day. So, I actually believed him then found out about the first woman. So, about a week before our trip I was doing laundry and smelled that same perfume and saw makeup on his shirt (cliche-I know) it was like she hugged him and the makeup wore off. Anyways. I called him up about it and he was really nice at first, promised that he didn't know what I was talking about promised that nothing was happening. I said okay and proceeded to plan our lunch (we were having lunch that day) well he continued to go on and on and on about me making a big deal, etc. Even after I said I believed him. That is what through me into this whatever you call it, then the phone call the day of our trip and now today. I'm an idiot. I don't even recognize this guy that I have been with for 18 years. I feel like a stupid little girl. I do thank each and everyone one of you for posting your advice and opinions, though. Thank you.


----------



## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

hrtbkngrl said:


> Since I have done this do you have any additional advice for me? Just sit still and wait for him to calm down?


Don`t be so hard on your self.

I`m one for getting ironclad foolproof objective evidence before even mentioning it but in reality the only level of evidence you need to meet is that with which you are satisfied.

Honestly, I agree with you that the way he`s acting is more than enough.

Here`s my advice, set firm boundaries and a solid consequence if he fails to meet those boundaries.
This is very hard especially since you want to reconcile.
You effectively have to be willing to destroy the marriage to save it.

Give him your boundaries, in your case that`d be ..

-Access/passwords to all modes of communication now and forever.
-Copy of his recent call logs from your service provider

Right now he`s cleaning up his phone, e-mail, & Facebook because he`s trying to cover his ass for when he can no longer hold you off with his bluster so you`ll get nothing from these things when he does give them to you.

It`s the cell service providers call logs you want because he cannot fake or forge them.
They are cold hard truth and he is going to balk at giving them to you.

Your consequence of course is divorce.

He knows you want to keep him so he`s not going to believe you`ll divorce him.
For this reason I`d have divorce papers drawn up to hand him when he refuses your boundaries.

if you have no money for a lawyer I`d get online and download a divorce packet specific to your state and fill it out to hand him.

This is extreme and it`s an all or nothing roll of the dice but any other action leaves you in limbo for god knows how long and no one needs that emotional abuse.

Once you give him these boundaries and consequences you cannot back down or you`ll see that little smile run across his face again as he realizes he has beaten you.


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

He is going to calm down. His behavior isn't consistent with innocence. 

I hope TAM vets step in to help you, they are more expert than I.

Just make full transparency a condition of coming back. Say, show me this month's phone bill on the computer from our wireless carrier (making sure he doesn't doctor the bill).

You should see one or two #'s jump out. He might be using company phones that aren't assigned by name and could use that to trick you. But otherwise you should see a very suspicious calling pattern; my WS and his AP would call and text all hours.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Is he going to stay with your parents? What will he tell them if so?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

No. He wants me to. I am not. I don't want my dad to worry right now. I think he is going to sleep in the car. It is not a pay week and therefore he doesn't have the money to get a hotel room. If it is the same woman as before, which I think it is, he cannot stay with her because she is also in a relationship. That is all I know of her oh and that whomever she works for does a lot of business at his work (he works at a college) and that is why he wouldn't tell me who she was. Didn't want the whole school finding out or losing that business-which I didn't argue about since he is the only one working at the moment and we need to provide for our kids. I just don't know what to do about the kids. I guess I can say he is working out of town or something for now. Sorry. That was more of an answer than you asked for.


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

I was about to say that it's likely the same person.
Frankly if it's someone different you have a bigger problem, ie a serial cheater.
You may have to bite the bullet and cost him the work. If it were me I'd need more proof first, but you don't seem to have a way.
Stay with the house as others have said, do not abandon the house whatever you do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

The fact that she`s in a relationship is good for you as it gives you a lot of power over the both of them.

He will be trying to protect her from exposure to her boyfriend/husband at almost any and all costs.


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

There is no advise we can give if you continue to engage with him in your current mindset , being prepared to walk away and lose him puts you in a position of strength. I you think he will out of the goodness of his heart step up and be the man you married , your wrong . Appearing needy and desperate helps him manipulate you.


Get a VAR and hide it in his car.
Stop talking to him about his affair , he does give a dam about you and will continue regardless. 
Go into a hard 180, not a selective 180. A full blown 180.
Since you have confronted him so many times you may as well tell his parents and yours he is in an affair.
Go to a lawyer and start preparing for a D. I am sure you think this is extreme , you have no option as your husband is no longer married to you. 

Over time you will find out who the OW is and when you do exposure will be your next step.

If friends ask what is happening, tell the truth "he is having an affair" . When he gets angry or stomps around smile. Don't try to argue it out with him or produce evidence . If he calls you limit conversations to the children , learn to be direct and put the phone down if he talks about anything else. This is the part most wives fail on; they let the conversation change from the kids or the financials in the hope he is going to say something nice , do not fool yourself. 

Ultimately if you don't get hard evidence a polygraph is the last resort. I do not suggest you play this card yet.

The 180 below

The Healing Heart: The 180
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

I agree with all the advice above. You really really do need to accept your marriage is over, whether u like it or not, whether u want it to be or not. In doing this you will then be in a position of strength. Do not be fooled into thinking that by doing this you will push him away. By NOT standing strong...that will push him away. It gives him the free reign to continue as he likes. By standing strong, that will force him back down to earth with a thump. He will then have to make the decision as to whether he wants marriage with you or future plans with the other woman. YOU DO NOT WANT TO BE THE OTHER WOMAN IN YOUR MARRIAGE! Don't let him make you that.

As an end note, I am just like you, I cannot hide a problem if there is something on ny mind. You really do have to sit tight if you want more evidence. If what you have now is enough for you (and the affair is definitely there, written all over the wall), then address it right away...DO NOT WAIVER. The only problem is, if you don't have more evidence then he can easily water down the details of the affair, the length if time of it and so on. Hard evidence will give you a stronger case in that he will not be able to give you half truths/no truths so easily.


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

Well, here I am again. He slept in the truck last night and upstairs all day. I didn't talk to him except a few minutes ago. It's too hard having him in the house. I laid it out again. Told him that I would be able to trust him if he were to be upfront with me, give me all passwords and access to all mobile communications (phone, computer, email, etc). He said the one thing that I was completely wrong about was the perfume. So, I asked him what I was right about. Nothing of course. There is nothing going on. It doesn't matter because I wouldn't believe him anyways- he was trying to work on it by showing me love and attention (which he was but he was on the phone yesterday with the mystery person). He said if I were to admit that I was wrong and believe him that our problems would be over (seriously?). So, I laid it out again. Told him an innocent person would be annoyed but would hand over the things I am asking for. Told him how easy that was- I mean that is easy! 18 years he wants to throw away because he said I will be waiting a very long time because he is not going to hand it over. So, I said that I guess it's done. He said I guess so. This is all very calm conversation, too. However, he has no money right now and no where to go. He said he will stay as long as he needs to because he has as much right to this house as I do. This will make it very difficult for me. I am not leaving. This is my house and my kids' house. Thanks again you all for your posts. I am probably making some of you crazy with my actions. I am just going crazy. I guess it's over because he doesn't want to hand over any access to his things. That's too bad. Such a waste. I do still wonder what it is that I am right about since he said the one thing I am wrong about is the perfume. I guess that means I am right about everything else.


----------



## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

hrtbkngrl said:


> Well, here I am again. He slept in the truck last night and upstairs all day. I didn't talk to him except a few minutes ago. It's too hard having him in the house. I laid it out again. Told him that I would be able to trust him if he were to be upfront with me, give me all passwords and access to all mobile communications (phone, computer, email, etc). He said the one thing that I was completely wrong about was the perfume. So, I asked him what I was right about. Nothing of course. There is nothing going on. It doesn't matter because I wouldn't believe him anyways- he was trying to work on it by showing me love and attention (which he was but he was on the phone yesterday with the mystery person). He said if I were to admit that I was wrong and believe him that our problems would be over (seriously?). So, I laid it out again. Told him an innocent person would be annoyed but would hand over the things I am asking for. Told him how easy that was- I mean that is easy! 18 years he wants to throw away because he said I will be waiting a very long time because he is not going to hand it over. So, I said that I guess it's done. He said I guess so. This is all very calm conversation, too. However, he has no money right now and no where to go. He said he will stay as long as he needs to because he has as much right to this house as I do. This will make it very difficult for me. I am not leaving. This is my house and my kids' house. Thanks again you all for your posts. I am probably making some of you crazy with my actions. I am just going crazy. I guess it's over because he doesn't want to hand over any access to his things. That's too bad. Such a waste. I do still wonder what it is that I am right about since he said the one thing I am wrong about is the perfume. I guess that means I am right about everything else.


There was another poster a while ago who's story was almost identical to yours. They were told that all the cheating signs were there. They didn't want to believe it. They didn't push the issue and 3 months later they came back and told everyone that the advice they received was indeed correct.

When I first came on TAM I read a lot of people advising posters to follow their gut. I thought that advice was ridiculous because your gut can be wrong. You know what I eventually figured out? In cases of infidelity your gut is almost never wrong. You know what it is you are right about. So does he. Lets see if he changes his tune when he is served divorce papers. The shock to his system might just wake him up and show him the real consequences to his actions.


----------



## brokenbloke (Feb 21, 2012)

It seems like he is playing a bit of high stakes relationship poker with you. By standing firm to his claims he is trying to make it seem this is all in your head and your fault for not being trust worthy. Clever, maybe, but wrong. Try to imagine a scenerio where your spouse is suspicious about a potential affair when in fact you are innocent. Your spouse then confronts you and asks you for your phone records etc, for proof that nothing is going on. How would you react? I'll tell you how I would, and every other wrongly-suspected LS would. We would probably laugh it off, think it's cute that their spouse is so jealous, or at worst, be a little offended or annoyed that we are being accussed. Either case we would happily hand over the necessary info to reassure our spouse that we are not cheating. I know if my spouse suspected something I would laugh it off and just take it as a sign my wife cares about me and our marriage. Then I would reassure her because I love her and don't her to feel this (misguided) anxiety. My point is to remind you that your H is showing all the signs of gaslighting and trying to turn the phsycological games on you in order to remind yourself when he does that you are in fact being absolutely correct in your assessment.

I'll let the TAM vets give you the best advice, but it seems he isn't done with you or the marriage, hasn't checked out completely, and is more just trying to cake eat (if he was totally done with you then why bother trying to be nice and reassure you etc?). You might want to focus on collecting hard evidence via VARs now, instead of trying to get it out of him. Put some VARs in places where he might talk (car, house etc) and DONT talk to him about the affair anymore. Get some hard evidence before you confront him again. Only then, when he can't play mind games on you, you'll see a complete change in the entire dynamics etc...


----------



## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

brokenbloke said:


> It seems like he is playing a bit of high stakes relationship poker with you. By standing firm to his claims he is trying to make it seem this is all in your head and your fault for not being trust worthy. Clever, maybe, but wrong. Try to imagine a scenerio where your spouse is suspicious about a potential affair when in fact you are innocent. Your spouse then confronts you and asks you for your phone records etc, for proof that nothing is going on. How would you react? I'll tell you how I would, and every other wrongly-suspected LS would. We would probably laugh it off, think it's cute that their spouse is so jealous, or at worst, be a little offended or annoyed that we are being accussed. Either case we would happily hand over the necessary info to reassure our spouse that we are not cheating. I know if my spouse suspected something I would laugh it off and just take it as a sign my wife cares about me and our marriage. Then I would reassure her because I love her and don't her to feel this (misguided) anxiety. My point is to remind you that your H is showing all the signs of gaslighting and trying to turn the phsycological games on you in order to remind yourself when he does that you are in fact being absolutely correct in your assessment.
> 
> I'll let the TAM vets give you the best advice, but it seems he isn't done with you or the marriage, hasn't checked out completely, and is more just trying to cake eat (if he was totally done with you then why bother trying to be nice and reassure you etc?). You might want to focus on collecting hard evidence via VARs now, instead of trying to get it out of him. Put some VARs in places where he might talk (car, house etc) and DONT talk to him about the affair anymore. Get some hard evidence before you confront him again. Only then, when he can't play mind games on you, you'll see a complete change in the entire dynamics etc...


I think you summed it up perfectly. I agree with everything you said.


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

Broken bloke and Beowulf you are so right. I know this. I'm just in a cloud of confusion and utter shock. I will take the advice that everyone has given and put it to use. Thank you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Stand firm. No innocent spouse would take this stance.

I lol'd about the perfume. My WS and the AP would cling to parts I 'got wrong.' Talk about not seeing the forest for the trees.

You will prob have to file for divorce. You can always delay or take it back. But he needs to see you're not playing the games of a big baby that he's being. His betrayal and immorality are no silly joke to be ignored.

Just keep looking for ways to uncover evidence. Telling her fam is a huge way to knock the fantasy down.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## brokenbloke (Feb 21, 2012)

the problem with telling the fam is that there is no hard evidence. He will likely stick to his guns that she is insecure, crazy etc, and she'll have little to demonstrate. (although maybe all that she has told us would convince most others...I dunno)


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

brokenbloke said:


> the problem with telling the fam is that there is no hard evidence. He will likely stick to his guns that she is insecure, crazy etc, and she'll have little to demonstrate. (although maybe all that she has told us would convince most others...I dunno)


yes, I meant telling her (the AP's) fam. But right now she doesn't know for sure who that is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

LOL. I laughed inside about the perfume comment also. That is the only solid evidence that I have that and the text that he accidentally sent me, but fesse up to that. Currently, the perfume was the only tangible evidence. I found it funny that that was the only thing out of all I was saying that he commented on besides he is not giving up his info. I guess I will have to get the VAR in order to at least get her name. I think that is the only way to find out. That and spy on him at work some how. Don't think I will do the last one, maybe if I have time to sit on a college campus all day waiting for him to move (LOL).


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

I'm back. I have my proof> I can barely type this I am shaking so badly. He is sleeping I went through his phone He has pictures passworded, but the phone wasn't I have 10 emails. There are two women. One an old facebook friend and one he works with. He has def slept w the one at work and plans to w the girl from back home when we go back for my reunion. Supposedly loves, longs, aches blah blah blah for both. God who is this person? He is so fake. Whomever said this part was worse was right. He is sleeping next to me right now. I don't know how to do this. I fwd the emails that I saw to me. Please help. I'm worse off than ever. I am an idiot! My kids will be hurt by this.


----------



## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Im sorry.

Which phone does he have?


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

keko said:


> Im sorry.
> 
> Which phone does he have?


An iPhone work pays the bills so can't get that and he always has it password protected.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

hrtbkngrl~

I'm going to give you some practical advice, and some suggested advice--strongly suggested. 

*First for the practical advice:* I want you to go to your email immediately and copy the evidence into a Word document. Save one copy on your computer and one somewhere that is out of the home (like email it to work....or save a copy to a cloud storage spot on the internet). Print three copies on paper: one that you will give to him; one that you will keep safely in the home (like in a lockbox in the bedroom), and one that is out of the house--like in a locked drawer at work or if you don't work, at your sister's or parent's house. [For now, just ask them to store a copy of a document for you and leave it at that.] The reason you are saving copies on a computer outside the home and in paper outside the home, is because as soon as your disloyal hubby sees the evidence, he will try to erase it, delete it, tear it up, etc. and if you have no copies, he'll try to claim that you "made it up" or somehow doctored them etc. Nope...this way you have COPIES of the proof where he can not get at them or change them, safe and secure, and you can go back to those copies any day he tries to blame you for his adultery.

Next, go to the store (like Walmart) and buy two items: lotion tissue and soup. The lotion tissue is because you are going to be doing some serious crying, and if you use kleenex that doesn't have lotion, you will chap your nose and eye-lids. Then you'll have salty tears in chapped skin and that hurts even worse! The soup is because let's be honest: you can't eat. You have no desire to eat! You couldn't swallow past that lump in your throat if you wanted to. BUT you have children, and they need you...and they are going to need you to have some strength to take care of them! So you need some nourishment and soup can be choked past the lump. Just nuke it up and it's a little something warm to keep you going for your kids. 

*Now, for the very strongly suggested advice.* I suggest that you peek at our article "Seven steps you can take to end an affair." You have already done step number one (gather evidence) so the next step will be step number two: confront. Now I will warn you that the time to confront is not always "right away" the moment you find the proof. It is right and reasonable to be so emotionally shook up that you can't think straight, so before you confront, take a little time to get the soup, make the copies, and be prepared. Wait until some of the emotional tidal wave has passed and you're able to think clearly--then it's a good time to confront...when you have your ducks in a row. 

Soooooo...this step "Confront" is not about going to your husband and saying: "Oh I found proof that you've been having an affair" because that gives him the opening to blame you, to act SHOCKED that you would invade his privacy, etc. Nope, you take some time to prepare! You get the evidence copied and secured. You take some time to take half of the money in your current "joint" bank account, and put it in account with just YOUR name on it (to protect it from him spending it on his AP...aka Affair Partner). You take some time to investigate the divorce laws in your state so that you know your rights and what you may be facing and you're informed. You get two large suitcases and pack the majority of his clothing. You get YOURSELF together, and you go to your husband, hand him the print outs of the affair emails, and you say something like this: 

_"In our vows, we promised to forsake all others and I expect a partner in my life who will give 100% of his loyalty and affection to me and me alone--just as I give 100% of my loyalty and affection only to you.  These emails prove what my gut has been telling me: that you are having not only ONE affair but two! You're cheating on the women you're cheating on me with! So you have one chance and one chance only to end all the affairs for the sake of our marriage, our vows and our children. "Ending all affair"s means that you will end all contact with both women forever and never, EVER speak with or hear of or hear from them again. You will not be able to work with the woman at work whom you're screwing; either she or you will quit. We will NOT be attending the reunion because I will not be party to financing your adultery. If you're willing to admit what you've done, end all contact today, and then progress to being 100% open and transparent with me--sharing passwords, emails, facebooks and IM chat logs--then I am willing to work with you to repair the damage you've done. If you're not willing to stop both affairs right now, tonight, I have your bags packed and I will call a cab to come get you. I am not controlling you--you are completely free to make any choice you want, but I will not have a cheating husband in our marital and family home. So, what's your decision?"_

Bear in mind that he is going to be angry--but a marriage can survive anger. It can NOT survive active adultery! He is going to try to blame you, but keep in mind that you may not have been perfect but your lack of perfection in no way justifies betrayal. He is going to try every trick in the book to put this on you and try to continue his affairs--kicking, screaming, threatening, crying, being a victim, blaming the past or his parents...ANYTHING!! That's because he is like an addict and you are taking away his "drug." Just stay focused, stand firm, and he can end the affairs TONIGHT or call a cab and put the luggage outside and lock the door. You can not FORCE him to leave but if he gets that heated up you always have the police as a last resort. The cops will at least ask him to go cool off elsewhere for a night.


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Read the newbie thread it has some great advice for Facebook and work exposures plus other important posts. You may fear doing much of this and worry it will destroy your marriage, as it stands today you don't have a marriage. I suspect your husband will fight you on this and try intimidate you, do the exposure very quickly to the OW's family , friends and at their place of work. Do not tell him what you are doing, your silence will scare him, when he finds you exposed her will be angry and internally be very worried . Do not reveal who you expose to , follow the guidelines they have been created for the BS.

Click on the thread below:- 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

It goes to say you should move some monies to an account you controll, many OM's strip the cash out once caught. Be prepared to D, with this mindset you can prepare yourself for the long haul ahead. Your marriage can be saved it does however take two willing parties.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

Affaircare said:


> hrtbkngrl~
> 
> I'm going to give you some practical advice, and some suggested advice--strongly suggested.
> 
> ...



Thank you. This is perfect advice. I want to share the emails w the other women after this. Would that not be a good idea? I think this may come to a head in the morning though as I was fed the emails quickly and didn't get to delete out of his sent mail and I am missing one of the emails so I think I inadvertently sent it to his boss and the one at work is his boss's assistant.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

hrtbkngrl said:


> Thank you. This is perfect advice. I want to share the emails w the other women after this. Would that not be a good idea? I think this may come to a head in the morning though as I was fed the emails quickly and didn't get to delete out of his sent mail and I am missing one of the emails so I think I inadvertently sent it to his boss and the one at work is his boss's assistant.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, exposing the women to each other would be a good idea, but also their spouses / significant others / parents if you can.

Stay strong, you can do this, make your choices with as much cool-headedness as you can muster.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

hrtbkngrl said:


> was fed the emails quickly and didn't get to delete out of his sent mail and I am missing one of the emails so I think I inadvertently sent it to his boss and the one at work is his boss's assistant.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, then you have inadvertently begun the exposure you need to do anyway.



When will you confront him?
How will you confront him?
Think First!


----------



## be-man (Apr 15, 2012)

The one thing about confronting without evidence is that it will drive it further underground. The third time I caught my wife it was harder because I basically made her a better, smarter, EA cheater.

Get the evidence.


----------



## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

AngryandUsed said:


> Your guts never fail.
> But gut feeling should be differentiated from minds overtime working arising out of insecurity. Okay?
> 
> Now that you have questions, you should be vigilant.
> ...


The PI is the best way to gather evidence. If the cheater is crafty. They will have hidden computers, bank accounts, credit cards, burn phones etc. 

They may well allow a key logger on phone or smart phone, but they can always have another hidden somewhere, so a Private investigator is the best way.

Problem is they are expensive.


----------



## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

hrtbkngrl said:


> I was reading through my first post. I was so upset that I didn't even mention that back in November when I first discovered and he confessed that he was talking to another woman that I had smelled strong perfume on his shirt. He shrugged it off that one of the ladies at work hugged him that day. So, I actually believed him then found out about the first woman. So, about a week before our trip I was doing laundry and smelled that same perfume and saw makeup on his shirt (cliche-I know) it was like she hugged him and the makeup wore off. Anyways. I called him up about it and he was really nice at first, promised that he didn't know what I was talking about promised that nothing was happening. I said okay and proceeded to plan our lunch (we were having lunch that day) well he continued to go on and on and on about me making a big deal, etc. Even after I said I believed him. That is what through me into this whatever you call it, then the phone call the day of our trip and now today. I'm an idiot. I don't even recognize this guy that I have been with for 18 years. I feel like a stupid little girl. I do thank each and everyone one of you for posting your advice and opinions, though. Thank you.


When my husband was cheating while I was unaware, I smelled perfume on the passenger side car seat. I mentioned it and he said it was a male client's aftershave. 

I also found the seat moved to a position for a taller person. The OW was taller than I am. 

Later I found a chunk of her blonde hair in the head rest and not he floor of the passenger side seat. 

Check those things. 

I also smelled perfume on his shirt. He said it was the soap at the gym.


----------



## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Eli-Zor said:


> It goes to say you should move some monies to an account you controll, many OM's strip the cash out once caught. Be prepared to D, with this mindset you can prepare yourself for the long haul ahead. Your marriage can be saved it does however take two willing parties.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Go to an attorney pronto.

If your husband strips cash from bank accounts a forensic accountant can find out. 

Your husband will have to pay for that accountant but it will come from marital asset money.


----------



## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Get tested for STD's.

As i followed your thread from the beginning I knew this was going to be the result. The fact that he was sneaking off when he was with you was way over the top. When I was with my wife at Disney last year she already had a burner phone and kept it hidden from me and her brother (who's family was there with us). My wife acted strange during this time and I knew something was up. They rarely come clean on their own and rarely own up to things even when confronted. Often times you need solide evidence to get them to come clean. Just part of the cheater's MO.

Keep us posted because now things are going to really heat up and if we can assist you we will. In the meantime you are getting good advice and here is a hug for you.


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

Thank you. I have confronted him with the print out of the emails that I have gotten. He didn't yell scream blame or deny. What can he say? I have the evidence or at least what I need I really don't want to read anymore than I already have. I do know that he has been with the woman at work for at least a year and who knows how many times they have had sex. What's wrong with me that I only got suspicious in October? Geez. He should win an Oscar for his acting abilities. He knows right when to be his "normal" self and when to turn on the charm to keep me from thinking anything is out of the norm. I am physically sick. My head is swimming and I want to be able to be in control of my feelings. This is not working. Maybe in a few days. This all came out last night. He is coming over today (well he is sleeping in the truck in the driveway) he says ask him anything and he will give me all answers. Whatever. I will at least get a portion of what is true. Just need to multiply that by 5 or more. I don't even know what I want to know besides why? He will say he doesn't know. I will contact the OW and their spouses. I will find out that info today one way or another. I do know that he woman at work's husband already found out some time ago and they are still together and working on it. Or so he thought. I will advise that this is not the case. One of them needs to quit. I know there are no jobs, and I am not working right now so this makes it difficult, but I don't care. I do have a dr appt set up for STD check. How humiliating.. Thank you all for your help and advice. I am sure I will be back and if you can think of anything else in the meantime, please let me know.


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Look at you, how STRONG you are. I know you don't feel that way but you should be so proud of yourself, you are taking all of the right steps. You can vent and cry here as much as you want. 

My husband played me for the fool for 3 years. So I'm very sorry, I know you think he deserves it, but your husband is NOT going to win that Oscar.


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

hrtbkngrl said:


> Thank you. I have confronted him with the print out of the emails that I have gotten. He didn't yell scream blame or deny. What can he say? I have the evidence or at least what I need I really don't want to read anymore than I already have. I do know that he has been with the woman at work for at least a year and who knows how many times they have had sex.


I'm so sorry that it's come to this, but I am glad to hear he didn't scream at you. It's really hard to take when someone has cheated AND they try to blame you AND they scream, so at least that hasn't happened. From this point, no matter what he says or how he tries to say that you sort of "drove him to it" please remind yourself that it's true you weren't perfect, but it is 100% HIS choice to have an affair. He could have gone to counseling, he could have spoken to you about it, he could have just ended the relationship and stayed faithful--but HE is the one who made the decision to have two affairs. 



> What's wrong with me that I only got suspicious in October? Geez. He should win an Oscar for his acting abilities. He knows right when to be his "normal" self and when to turn on the charm to keep me from thinking anything is out of the norm.


Again, it's not you. This was a deliberate decision on his part. Every time you said something or asked about it, he could have made the choice to do the right thing and "man up" and tell the truth, but instead he specifically spoke and acted in a way to make you doubt yourself and your instincts. 

I agree--that kind of performance really does deserve an Academy Award. Makes ya ill doesn't it?

Oh and by the way--do not EVER listen if he tries to say he couldn't control himself or he "had to" lie to you because he was the victim of XYZ or has ABC disorder, etc. NOPE! :bsflag: Think of this: did he treat his boss at work that way? Did he do it to his dad or the pastor or whoever he looks up to? If not....then guess what? HE CONTROLLED IT!! He didn't do it to them, and that means he could have chosen to not do it to you, and he didn't choose that. So raise that :bsflag:



> I am physically sick. My head is swimming and I want to be able to be in control of my feelings. This is not working. Maybe in a few days. This all came out last night.


Did you get the lotion tissues and the soup? If not, please go get them today or you really will get sick. This is literally, physically sickening, so when you can you need to choke down some soup and if you feel tired, I don't care if it's the middle of the day, go lay down and sleep if you can. It may be a few days until you can, and boy you want to have a muddled head? Go a few days without eating or sleeping! That will drive you crazy--for real.

As long as you feel like your head is swimming and you're not in control of your thoughts and feelings, just make the choice to make no decisions. If he pushes you to "let him come home" or make a choice to work on the marriage or not, just tell him that you will NOT make a decision until you can be clear-headed and that if he pushes you will decide NO right now!!



> He is coming over today (well he is sleeping in the truck in the driveway) he says ask him anything and he will give me all answers. Whatever. I will at least get a portion of what is true. Just need to multiply that by 5 or more. I don't even know what I want to know besides why? He will say he doesn't know.


Yeah I don't mean this mean, but don't expect "the truth" now all-of-a-sudden. For at least the last year he's been lying, so chances are about 99.99% that he'll try to cover his own behind or "get his way" rather than tell the actual truth. I'd suggest asking, maybe writing down what he says, and then verifying via neutral means. Just expect that nothing out of his mouth or the Other Women's mouths will be the truth. If they were honest people, none of this would have happened 



> I will contact the OW and their spouses. I will find out that info today one way or another. I do know that he woman at work's husband already found out some time ago and they are still together and working on it. Or so he thought. I will advise that this is not the case.


I do strongly recommend contacting the spouses of the Other Women, but I just about equally strongly recommend that you do NOT contact the Other Women. Honestly? There's no point. They were trying to have their cake and eat it too, and you are messing with their cake, so they will not tell the truth or work to make things right. They'll hurt you back for hurting their cake. The OWs' spouses do deserve to know that their reconciliation is a lie or that their spouse has been having an affair--shoot for all they know, they may been given an STD and not even know it!! They need to know to protect themselves physically and they also need to know so they can make their own decisions about their own relationships and what they want to do. So yep--contact the spouses, but leave the OW alone. You're already a mess and don't need to be poking those dragons!



> One of them needs to quit. I know there are no jobs, and I am not working right now so this makes it difficult, but I don't care. I do have a dr appt set up for STD check. How humiliating.. Thank you all for your help and advice. I am sure I will be back and if you can think of anything else in the meantime, please let me know.


You are so right--this is going to make is REALLY tough financially but one of them will need to quit. The cost to your hubby for the choices he made to commit adultery is that he can't stay at the job he likes. AND in no way is his financial responsibility lessened or lightened because he screwed around either! And I'm glad to hear you've set up a Dr. appointment for STD check. I know it's humiliating, but you are not the one who put yourself in this position, so don't be ashamed of protecting your health. That's just wisdom. You have people depending on you, so good for you that you're brave. 

Now I say take a few days, maybe go to the coast or the mountains, take your kids, and go get away from it all so you can think. Being "somewhere else" (other than the house where you lived with your unfaithful spouse) may help remove some stress and help you think a little clearly. At this point--if he's saying he wants to try to "work it out" you are the one with the moral right to decide if you will end the marriage due to your spouse's sexual immorality or to decide if you will reconcile. So take your time.


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

Affaircare said:


> I'm so sorry that it's come to this, but I am glad to hear he didn't scream at you. It's really hard to take when someone has cheated AND they try to blame you AND they scream, so at least that hasn't happened. From this point, no matter what he says or how he tries to say that you sort of "drove him to it" please remind yourself that it's true you weren't perfect, but it is 100% HIS choice to have an affair. He could have gone to counseling, he could have spoken to you about it, he could have just ended the relationship and stayed faithful--but HE is the one who made the decision to have two affairs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



He has been completely willing to be transparent. I've been given all pass codes etc. he knows what I need and is willing to do it. He knows I may not get past this. I don't know if I can. He slept w her at least 3 times (the local at work OW). So there are more times I know and he didn't deny when I called him on it. It was his first move to get a hotel room (in a cute little town that we would go to). He loves her. He "thought he was in love w her" but thinks it could be more of what he can't have since supposedly she went back to her husband a month or so ago and have only had contact via telephone and text. Whatever. He knows I only believe a bit of what he says. He said he had the chance to leave me when she and her husband separated but when it came down to it he couldn't see himself living without me. Says it doesn't matter but the day before I found out he told her to not text call or email because he wants to work on his marriage. I would have said that was a lie had I not seen that email. Doesn't matter, he is right. I am going away for a few days. He will keep the kids here. I need to be by myself. I am just going to drive until I get somewhere and be alone for the first time in a very long time. I don't know what I'm doing. I'm a complete wreck. I did get soup  and can barely get that down. They should use heart ache as the next new diet craze. My reply probably sounds jumbled but my mind is all over the place. I just can't get the thought of them together out of my mind. It's like a broken record playing over and over. I did not contact the OW (2). You are right. No point just more drama. I did send a message through Facebook to the spouse of the local OW. Haven't heard anything. Don't know if I will but it's out there. The OW not local is not married. So she is off the hook. He supposedly was just living some play fantasy w her but really loved the local one. Ugh. Making myself sick here. Thank you all for your support. I leave on Saturday for some good old soul searching. If you can think of anything else that would help or that I'm doing that is destructive please let me know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

hrtbkngrl said:


> He has been completely willing to be transparent. I've been given all pass codes etc. he knows what I need and is willing to do it. He knows I may not get past this. I don't know if I can. He slept w her at least 3 times (the local at work OW). So there are more times I know and he didn't deny when I called him on it. It was his first move to get a hotel room (in a cute little town that we would go to). He loves her. He "thought he was in love w her" but thinks it could be more of what he can't have since supposedly she went back to her husband a month or so ago and have only had contact via telephone and text. Whatever. He knows I only believe a bit of what he says. He said he had the chance to leave me when she and her husband separated but when it came down to it he couldn't see himself living without me. Says it doesn't matter but the day before I found out he told her to not text call or email because he wants to work on his marriage. I would have said that was a lie had I not seen that email. Doesn't matter, he is right. I am going away for a few days. He will keep the kids here. I need to be by myself. I am just going to drive until I get somewhere and be alone for the first time in a very long time. I don't know what I'm doing. I'm a complete wreck. I did get soup  and can barely get that down. They should use heart ache as the next new diet craze. My reply probably sounds jumbled but my mind is all over the place. I just can't get the thought of them together out of my mind. It's like a broken record playing over and over. I did not contact the OW (2). You are right. No point just more drama. I did send a message through Facebook to the spouse of the local OW. Haven't heard anything. Don't know if I will but it's out there. The OW not local is not married. So she is off the hook. He supposedly was just living some play fantasy w her but really loved the local one. Ugh. Making myself sick here. Thank you all for your support. I leave on Saturday for some good old soul searching. If you can think of anything else that would help or that I'm doing that is destructive please let me know.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh and he has not blamed me. Takes full responsibility for what he has done.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

hrtbkngrl said:


> Oh and he has not blamed me. Takes full responsibility for what he has done.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm sorry. One more thing. He wants to know where I'm going. I don't know but don't want to tell him either. I don't even want to tell him when I get back. I will have a phone and check in on the kids but I feel that is all I need to do. Am I wrong? That's me not being honest and two wrongs don't make a right.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

hrtbkngrl said:


> I'm sorry. One more thing. He wants to know where I'm going. I don't know but don't want to tell him either. I don't even want to tell him when I get back. I will have a phone and check in on the kids but I feel that is all I need to do. Am I wrong? That's me not being honest and two wrongs don't make a right.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, you are not wrong. This is not a case of two wrongs not making a right. You take your charger with you and promise him that you will keep the phone on in case of an emergency, that is the only obligation you have and it isn't for him, it's for your children and to ease your own peace of mind in that regard.

He is very sorry, but you need the opinion of a professional trained in infidelity issues to help you sort through whether that amounts to anything for the future.


----------



## Bottled Up (Nov 12, 2011)

hrtbkngrl said:


> I'm sorry. One more thing. He wants to know where I'm going. I don't know but don't want to tell him either. I don't even want to tell him when I get back. I will have a phone and check in on the kids but I feel that is all I need to do. Am I wrong? That's me not being honest and two wrongs don't make a right.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No you're not wrong... He doesn't deserve to know where you're going right now. He owes you this.


----------



## Alyosha (Feb 27, 2012)

Just read this thread. I need to take a break from this board.

So sorry for this woman and soooooooooooooooooo freaking sick to death of cheaters and cheating. Always the same pattern... the same excuses .... the same lies.... right down to the language used. These selfish liars are simply tedious and BORING lame-ass children walking around in adult bodies.

Society's general reaction is to tell jokes about it or make sexy movies about it. Nobody tells the hard, ugly truth about the monstrous damage infidelity causes to all those close to it. So much emotional anguish, so much devastation to families, psyches, finances etc. etc. When children are involved, it affects them FOREVER. We're talking inter generational damage here.

It literally sickens me that as I type this thousands of people are engaging in such destructive behavior and enjoying it....... until it all blows up, that is.

Ughh. I might check back in in a few months.


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

Alyosha said:


> Just read this thread. I need to take a break from this board.
> 
> So sorry for this woman and soooooooooooooooooo freaking sick to death of cheaters and cheating. Always the same pattern... the same excuses .... the same lies.... right down to the language used. These selfish liars are simply tedious and BORING lame-ass children walking around in adult bodies.
> 
> ...



Well I've gone by myself now what? This, as you all know, is just awful. It's like a bad dream for me. It's like I forget it happened and am okay but then bam it pops in my head again. Sorry had to vent.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

I am scheduling counseling for us both next week. I am not going to be able to do this on my own.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

hrtbkngrl said:


> I am scheduling counseling for us both next week. I am not going to be able to do this on my own.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

So I am back. Had a few days to myself. I feel a smidgen better. I had a huge lump in my throat when I pulled in the drive way. My husband has come clean (so I think) on everything I have asked. He takes full blame for his actions. This makes me a little weary as people usually have an affair because something is not being full filled at home right? He doesn't know or can't say what that is. This is very frustrating to me. He said he ended things w the PA a day before I found out. Or so he says. He said he hasn't heard from her or seen her or tried to contact her. It's been a week. That just seems weird but I have passwords, etc and have been checking randomly. I see nothing. He has left work early every day so we can talk while the kIds are at school but he really doesn't say much. Just answers my questions. Says that I know he has trouble putting thoughts in to words. I used to think this until I saw the way he was begging and pleading w the PA to leave her husband, missing her, etc. this sickens me. I guess I can bring that up in counseling. The counselor I have chosen only comes here once a month do I have to wait. They don't have many options where I live. My husband says he is sorry and he knows I may never get past this as he couldn't but wants me to try. I am having a hard time w the fact that he fell in love w the PA. What do you do w that? He acts so normal like he is not even mourning her loss. That I find a little skeptical. I just hope that this is not a repeat of the times I have asked him and he has said he quit talking to them. How do you get past the thoughts of them together? Maybe I'm asking too much of myself. I don't know. I am anxious for counseling and hope that will answer my questions. Thanks for taking time to read this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

First, I am so sorry I didn't respond to you earlier. I think I read your post on my phone and couldn't give you a proper response. Then your thread fell off the main page.

Second, I have some questions for you. A few pages back, you mentioned that it looks like there were two women, a co-worker(?) and an old GF that he was to meet up with at a reunion.

Have you exposed this affair to anyone? His family? The two women to each other? Their husbands?

Does he still have contact with the co-worker via work?

Now to respond to your post:



hrtbkngrl said:


> He takes full blame for his actions. This makes me a little weary as people usually have an affair because something is not being full filled at home right?


Taking responsibility for the stupid choice of entering an affair is not the same thing as taking responsibility for the state of the marriage. If all he is owning up to is that he was wrong to have an affair and he refused to blame that choice on you, then he is (in words at least) expressing proper remorse. But remember, ACTIONS are the best way to demonstrate remorse, not mere words.



> He doesn't know or can't say what that is. This is very frustrating to me.


He may not know himself. Affairs are profoundly selfish actions and the WS is not thinking very much about their spouse when they engage in their inappropriate behaviors. Just imagine how thinking about your spouse would puncture the balloon of an affair fantasy. 

You are right that there is some root cause or problem. It might be many things, or only one. You might never be able to put a precise name on it. It can be something wholly inside him, a lack of boundaries he has, issues from his childhood, pure narcissim, mental illness, or it could be because the two of you together made the marriage vulnerable to cheating in some way.

This issue of what needs he had that weren't fulfilled is the stuff of MC after the affair is definitively broken off. What I mainly want you to realize is that if you can't figure out what it is very easily (I was able to easily identify the biggest reasons in our vulnerable marriage), it's likely because the reason lies inside of him, and it wasn't about you at all. 

I am very inclined to say it was the latter. Do you know why? He seemed inclined to enter into a second sexual liasion with that old GF, if what you said earlier was true. Way to be 'loyal' to his AP. Serial cheating almost always signals MORE brokenness inside the WS than in the marriage. It can always be a combination, but the issues likely rest mostly in him.



> Says that I know he has trouble putting thoughts in to words. I used to think this until I saw the way he was begging and pleading w the PA to leave her husband, missing her, etc. this sickens me.


I find this very, very serious. I've read hundreds of my husband's emals with his AP and he never once discussed their future. What bothers me about it isn't that it's true (because it's hard to sort truth from fiction in Affair Land), but rather because it signals just HOW infatuated he is with her. This is a very, very powerful compulsive fantasy he had going on and the temptation to re-contact will be tremendous.

My husband was able to wait about 4 to 6 weeks before he sent an email to his AP asking nothing more than how she was doing. Now, I was not monitoring anything so I was none the wiser. However, now is not the time to relax your vigilance.

On the other hand, as mentioned, if he was approaching a 2nd woman for sex, just how heartfelt was this "love?"



> The counselor I have chosen only comes here once a month do I have to wait. They don't have many options where I live.


If you don't have the book Not Just Friends and Surviving an Affair already, get them now and read them before MC comes up. When you walk in to greet the MC, ask them if they've read these books, or not. Then be prepared to hand the MC a copy of Not Just Friends and ask them to read it. If you only see them once a month it's not too much to ask. NJF is a great book because you can literally use it to assess whether an MC truly understands infidelity, or not. MCs who don't get it are likely to take the WS at their word that the affair is over, to abhor exposure and to put it behind you as quickly as possible. 



> My husband says he is sorry and he knows I may never get past this as he couldn't but wants me to try. I am having a hard time w the fact that he fell in love w the PA. What do you do w that? He acts so normal like he is not even mourning her loss. That I find a little skeptical. I just hope that this is not a repeat of the times I have asked him and he has said he quit talking to them. How do you get past the thoughts of them together? Maybe I'm asking too much of myself. I don't know. I am anxious for counseling and hope that will answer my questions. Thanks for taking time to read this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My husband told his AP that she was his soulmate, best friend in the whole world, love of his life, the only person who could understand him. Yet here he is with me today as I type, reconciled, recommitted, and fully engaged.

My husband was not cold as yours has been. He openly cried many times after DD#1, he suffered mightily from withdrawal and ultimately gave into temptation and re-entered his affair.

I wonder if it's possible he wasn't as in love with her as his emails make it seem. Definitely something to raise and discuss in counseling, as you say.


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

Well, the old GF lives in another state. He was telling her that he loved her and couldn't wait to see her when we went up there. He has ceased all contact with her. Apparently she knew about this OW/coworker. Really? Whatever. I told her and she already knew about it. I did email the husband of the coworker. Apparently he knew also, but did not know that they were still in contact until recently when I told him. I guess he found out a few months ago and she moved out for two months and moved back in. He left a voicemail for my husband asking if he would just let him know if they were back in contact. I guess he didn't call him back, but was still in contact. They work together but not in the same building. He will have to see her some time though and this worries me. She is his bosses secretary. He has confessed since the last time I posted that he really cares about her (he knows it hurts me) and it will take time for him to get over her. I know this, but what do I do with it? How did you deal with it? I mean, I guess he loves me because he is here. He chose me and could so easily have chosen her, when she moved out or could, I am sure call her up and say, hey lets move in together. He asked her not to contact him anymore the day before I found out (I saw the email) because it would be too hard to work on our relationship if she was still a distraction. Not sure if any of this makes me feel better. 

You are right, he did say that neither one of them talked much about their spouses and what it would do to them. He also finally admitted that over the years I have made him feel unworthy or unattractive or undesirable and he cannot pin point why but I must have said something that triggered this (I probably did) Was too focused on work and the kids. I do believe what you said about it lying within him. A few years ago I realized that he needed more attention, etc. and have been giving him all of me ever since. He has a deep connection withthis OW that he doesn't have with me. I told him that if he thought back to the beginning of us it was like that. That it's like that in most all beginnings. It's fun, exciting, thrilling, everyone is in love,etc. I do believe what you said about it lying within him. A few years ago I realized that he needed more attention, etc. and have been giving him all of me ever since. But he would find himself years down the road in the same situation with her. Plus I told him that he has not been fair and given me a chance as he has put all of his energy in the last year (found out it has been a year long thing) in her and their relationship. He said when he thought about leaving me he couldn't. He could not picture himself old and gray and without me and our grandkids (if we have them), etc. This I believe-he is not one to open up and I can really tell when he is lying. I knew something had been going on but had not proof. I still don't know how to act or feel or what to do with this. Does he love me? Is he going to have to learn how to love me again? How did you do it? What did you do? How did you handle it when your husband was upset about the OW?

I remember you saying that I had a bigger problem on my hands if he was a serial cheater. I have made the OW/coworker aware of everyone. (she has not responded) It's out of the bag. That puzzles me and I asked him. He said he was mainly living out the old GF fantasy. But he was part of it and I am sure had I not found out before our trip that he would have met up with her. (We are not going now per his decision)

I told him that I know it will be hard for him and her to have no contact with each other, but to please let me know so I can deal with it. I think he will but will also be monitoring. He says if she emails or calls he is not sure yet if he will answer or respond (not the answer I wanted, but truthful nonetheless) Truthfulness is what I am looking for. He "says" he will never go back but we shall see. It really kills me that he was/is so connected to her, but makes it a smidgen better that he emailed her before I found out to stop all contact. This relationship with her was very strong so it is harder for me to trust that he loves me or isn't just playing a role or whatever. I am sure I am confusing you. It's just my thought pattern lately. 

I have been looking for the books you mentioned, but have not found them around here yet. The library and stores do not have them. I am going to order them off of amazon if they have them. 

How long did it take you to start to be comfortable with your husband again. Did he move out and if so, for how long? Whaqt did you do after he gave in to temptation as I am sure this is a great possibility for my situation since neither one of them can afford to quit. I thought about it and there just aren't any jobs around here and my kids come first. But he has been taking an interest in looking for another one so that is a positive step. 
You have definitely raised some valid points and given me a better outlook on this situation. I really appreciate it and thank you for responding. I am really here finding for myself. I have made the choice to not tell my family or his (even though he has offered to tell his) because I am not ready for that embarrassment or my family hating him if I am indeed going to work this out with him. He says he knows I may not be able to but would like to stay and try. 

And maybe you are right, maybe he wasn't in as much love as he thought (he did say it was more of something he couldn't have than anything)


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

hrtbkngrl said:


> I told him that I know it will be hard for him and her to have no contact with each other, but to please let me know so I can deal with it. I think he will but will also be monitoring. He says if she emails or calls he is not sure yet if he will answer or respond (not the answer I wanted, but truthful nonetheless) Truthfulness is what I am looking for. He "says" he will never go back but we shall see. It really kills me that he was/is so connected to her, but makes it a smidgen better that he emailed her before I found out to stop all contact. This relationship with her was very strong so it is harder for me to trust that he loves me or isn't just playing a role or whatever. I am sure I am confusing you. It's just my thought pattern lately.


Just to be clear, the way to handle this issue is to inform him that he absolutely may not have contact with her at all. He is to inform you if she contacts him. Then you are going to need to think of what the consequences will be if he reinitiates contact, make those clear, and then no matter how hard it is, follow through if he contacts her. Filing for divorce and exposure are basically the only two cards you have left to effectively destroy the affair if it starts up again.

The problem with affairs is that because they are such powerful fantasies / escapes from real life, they become compulsions. As you correctly perceive, these relationships don't come under the same pressures as real-life relationships—APs are careful to not disagree with each other, and spend a lot of time complimenting, validating, and affirming one another. It damages the fantasy if one of them starts to nag or complain or argue, so they play their roles carefully. Frankly, if they don't see each other very often, it's just not that hard for any two people to get along under those circumstances!

The point is, the desire to recontact their AP is not unlike a person just quitting smoking. (I don't believe affairs are physiologically additive like nicotine--this is only an analogy.) But people often smoke to relieve anxiety. Just experiencing anxious thoughts can make a new non-smoker reach for the pack. Affairs are very similar. The role they play is to take the partners away from the mundane, boring, tedious parts of life, whether past or present or both, and whisk them away to a place with very few problems. The secrecy adds to the fun--they are creating their own bubble world. So when your husband "quit" his AP, depression, anxiety, boredom, and the unpleasantness of life will likely be triggers for him to contact his AP.

Some people might be able to quit their APs cold turkey. Most, however, cannot. I always think of it like this: they KNEW when they entered the affair that this would make you cry until you couldn't cry any more and would tear your heart in two. They KNEW that if you found out you would be furious and would want to rip their head off and eat it for lunch. But none of that was enough to prevent them from entering the affair. So why--why on earth--could you being profoundly upset and angry--be enough to prevent them from starting up again?

The answer is, it's not. There have to be firm consequences that enforce No Contact. It's not good enough that the make promises. Cheaters are Liars--the words are interchangeable to the point of being indistinguishable. If your husband recontacts her, and you do not enforce your chosen consequence, all you are teaching your husband is to keep right on with the contact, or to take it underground, because he's going to get to die in your bed while giving his heart to someone else.


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

> I have been looking for the books you mentioned, but have not found them around here yet. The library and stores do not have them. I am going to order them off of amazon if they have them.


 Amazon has them.



> How long did it take you to start to be comfortable with your husband again. Did he move out and if so, for how long?


My husband never moved out.



> What did you do after he gave in to temptation as I am sure this is a great possibility for my situation since neither one of them can afford to quit. I thought about it and there just aren't any jobs around here and my kids come first. But he has been taking an interest in looking for another one so that is a positive step.


I was lucky I didn't have to deal with a shared job environment. My husband met his AP at work but I discovered the affair after they had both left their place of employment. Encourage him to get a new job every way you can. The two of them working in the same place is very, very, very bad, as you know. I can't tell you differently, I'm sorry.


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

> I have made the choice to not tell my family or his (even though he has offered to tell his) because I am not ready for that embarrassment or my family hating him if I am indeed going to work this out with him. He says he knows I may not be able to but would like to stay and try.


This is serious. If he is offering to tell his family, you take him up on it. If he renegs on this offer, you tell them anyway. If your husband cannot fully stop all contact with her because of his job, this is a MUST. What his family will do is hold him responsible and accountable and give him the backbone that he desperately needs to hold up his end of the bargain. I would have a simple meeting with his parents, with both of you present. And be sure to tell any siblings, friends, anyone who you believe would hold his feet to the fire in his life. 

If you prefer, you could hold off exposing him to your family but have that be a perfectly natural consequence of him re-contacting her. But don't use it as a threat unless you intend to follow through--or just like a toddler you're teaching him to ignore what you say and notice only your inaction.

Exposing them at work is another thing to consider and keep in your back pocket. It's highly recommended, but you do have to consider other factors. But at some point you have to say to yourself: is money so important that it's worth losing my marriage over?



> And maybe you are right, maybe he wasn't in as much love as he thought (he did say it was more of something he couldn't have than anything)


Well, after reading your latest post, I think he certainly felt an affinity for her. My husband was the same. I think he liked her a lot in every way. I think his perspective on it now is that she is someone he would have dated back before he met me. He isn't so clear, however, that he would have chosen to marry her. That's because although they got along well, he realized over time that the relationship was untested by the reality of life, and that their life philsophies, religions, child raising views, etc. differed quite a bit.

As far as him falling back in love with me--one thing I recommend is having sex with your husband as often as he'll let you (which I hope is at least once a week, or a whole lot more than that!). Of course, you will both need to be tested for STDs, use precautions, use condoms, etc. before going crazy. But sex is profound way for a man to show a woman that he loves her. For some reason women can get confused and think of it only as a male need that requires release. But actually, sex creates a strong biological bond between spouses and that's why it's so important. You may find you don't have much desire--well now is not the time to focus on that. You are fighting for your marriage and this is actually one of the easier and most effective tools you have, so whip it out! It will take time but I think you'll see some effects within a few months.

There are also books--His Needs / Her Needs, Love Busters, the 5 Love Languages, Boundaries in Marriage, and our MC just adores The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work, he keeps telling us that this book will put him out of business some day, I still have to read that one.


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

I forgot to mention, you can also expose to OW's parents and siblings.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> I forgot to mention, you can also expose to OW's parents and siblings.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hello again. First wanted to say thank you for all of the great advice you have given me and being so understanding. I feel like I am a pest because I keep posting questions. Our MC is June 15 and in the meantime I still have questions. My latest may seem do obvious but it's nice to hear someone else's thoughts. My H has been doing everything I have ever wanted him to do, being open, forthcoming with information about the coworker and how she has contacted him, being loving and attentive, etc. why do I still have this nagging feeling that something us going on? Is this normal? It seems I can't give my all in to helping fix our relationship because of this. I was just wondering. Thanks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

hrtbkngrl said:


> Hello again. First wanted to say thank you for all of the great advice you have given me and being so understanding. I feel like I am a pest because I keep posting questions. Our MC is June 15 and in the meantime I still have questions. My latest may seem do obvious but it's nice to hear someone else's thoughts. My H has been doing everything I have ever wanted him to do, being open, forthcoming with information about the coworker and how she has contacted him, being loving and attentive, etc. why do I still have this nagging feeling that something us going on? Is this normal? It seems I can't give my all in to helping fix our relationship because of this. I was just wondering. Thanks.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry for the misspellings. I try to catch the auto correct but don't always.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

What are you doing to verify he isn't in contact with her?


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> What are you doing to verify he isn't in contact with her?


Checking his devices-phone email etc. he showed me a text that she sent and he did not reply and deleted it after I read it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

sorry if you mentioned this before--has he handwritten a No Contact letter that you send certified mail, or did you read a parting email that he sent?

Is he accounting for his time throughout the day? Do you also have access to the phone records?

Have you done a sweep of his car to see if he has a spare phone or anything else incriminating there?


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> sorry if you mentioned this before--has he handwritten a No Contact letter that you send certified mail, or did you read a parting email that he sent?
> 
> Is he accounting for his time throughout the day? Do you also have access to the phone records?
> 
> Have you done a sweep of his car to see if he has a spare phone or anything else incriminating there?


I did a sweep of his car, his office, his office at home everywhere that I can think of and nothing. I saw the parting email and he was adamant about her not contacting him ever again. He has been coming home from work every day at noon and is on the phone most of the morning with me. I don't have phone records because his employer pays for the phone and has that. Maybe I'm just crazy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

What is very hard, right after you discover the affair, is that your body puts you in a state of hyper-vigilance. Danger came near to your home, it nearly snatched your love one from you, and so your adrenaline courses through you and your mind races thinking of the different possibilities. You feel (at least, I felt) like someone slammed a door and scared me, and I couldn't come down from that sensation for weeks.

Do you have the book Not Just Friends yet? she talks about that sensation and condition in the book.

Have you schedule marriage counseling?


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> What is very hard, right after you discover the affair, is that your body puts you in a state of hyper-vigilance. Danger came near to your home, it nearly snatched your love one from you, and so your adrenaline courses through you and your mind races thinking of the different possibilities. You feel (at least, I felt) like someone slammed a door and scared me, and I couldn't come down from that sensation for weeks.
> 
> Do you have the book Not Just Friends yet? she talks about that sensation and condition in the book.
> 
> Have you schedule marriage counseling?


I ordered it and it should be here any day. Our counseling is June 15. 

That IS the same feeling I have and have had.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

I also attended individual counseling, after both DD#1 and DD#2. I attended for about 3 or 4 months after DD#1 and for about six weeks after DD#2, ending just about a month ago.

I found individual counseling to be terrific for me. It helped me to go just talk about whatever I needed to talk about. I highly recommend it if you can do it.

You may still be in a state of shock right now. Also denial, as if you might wake up from the nightmare. After that wears off, be prepared to experience anger and depression.


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Also, sorry, do you still have the VAR going? Did he ever learn about it?

Another separate idea, ask your MC if they have read the book, Not Just Friends. The book was written by a nationally recognized researcher of infidelity, our very good MC pulled it right off the shelf. You can use the book as a sort of litmus test to see how much your MC knows and understands the way cheaters work. You can even offer to let them read the book if they say they haven't.


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> I also attended individual counseling, after both DD#1 and DD#2. I attended for about 3 or 4 months after DD#1 and for about six weeks after DD#2, ending just about a month ago.
> 
> I found individual counseling to be terrific for me. It helped me to go just talk about whatever I needed to talk about. I highly recommend it if you can do it.
> 
> You may still be in a state of shock right now. Also denial, as if you might wake up from the nightmare. After that wears off, be prepared to experience anger and depression.


I think I def need individual counseling. I will try that. 

I am still in shock and feel like it is a nightmare that I can't wake up from, but that feeling is starting to fade. I appreciate all of your help. I didn't realize that you were so close to your DDs. So, I thank you even more for being able to give such helpful advice and be so understanding.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Not sure if you saw my other post above about the VAR.

I'm in a good place because I went through this before--DD#1 was over 3 years ago. I spent those three years living life very fully. Our marriage was not in a good place, but it was ok. I didn't know he was still in contact with her. We attended MC for 6+ mos after DD#1 and he was in contact the whole time. MC was pretty much a total waste for obvious reasons.

But I never once verified that he wasn't in contact--I had never heard of the book Not Just Friends and didn't have any knowledge about infidelity. Didn't know about this forum.

My husband walked away from his AP on DD#2. He is very loving and present in our marriage. A big part of this is that I had a chance to change and prove myself during those years he was in his EA. Note: it didn't make him leave the EA. It doesn't work that way, usually. But it did make him ready to work together to restore our marriage.


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> Not sure if you saw my other post above about the VAR.
> 
> I'm in a good place because I went through this before--DD#1 was over 3 years ago. I spent those three years living life very fully. Our marriage was not in a good place, but it was ok. I didn't know he was still in contact with her. We attended MC for 6+ mos after DD#1 and he was in contact the whole time. MC was pretty much a total waste for obvious reasons.
> 
> ...


Sorry. I just saw the VAR post. I never had a VAR. I think I may still get one. 

I'm glad things are turning around for you. You seem very strong and have a good head on your shoulders. There is hope for me yet. 😊
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

hrtbkngrl said:


> Sorry. I just saw the VAR post. I never had a VAR. I think I may still get one.
> 
> I'm glad things are turning around for you. You seem very strong and have a good head on your shoulders. There is hope for me yet. 😊
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hello again. Sorry my mc isn't until next Friday. I am starting to have panic attacks and it feels like something is off. I was doing okay for a few days but the last few have been awful. Is this normal?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

What makes you think things are off?


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

Well I don't know 100%. But I check his communication devices everyday. He took the pass code off his phone and has told me things without me asking. He is w me all of the time when he is not at work and he's been coming home at lunch for the day for the last two weeks. He is being attentive and present but I don't know for sure. Maybe it's me but something is off.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Let's go back to 101.

Who is the OW? Do you know her name? Your first post says that she interacts with your H through work.

So why isn't he interacting with her when he goes to work? How can he prove such a thing?


----------



## sculley (Jun 6, 2012)

hrtbkngrl said:


> Hello. I have never posted anything like this before so please bear with me. I have never had to.. My husband (of18 years) confessed to me in October that he has been talking to someone that does business with his work. I had a feeling so kept prying. He said it was just flirting and talking/texting. Okay... He promised it would stop. He said if she contacted him he would not respond, etc. Okay... so, I am going about my business- in January, he accidentally texts me a message meant for another woman. Seriously?! He said it was not the same woman, but an old friend from Facebook. Wow!!! So, I am here trying to get past this, as he deleted her from Facebook, etc. I am guarded and trying to make this work as we have kids, etc. He has promised, sworn on my kids lives, etc. that nothing like this is going to happen again, I am the one, blah blah blah... Again, just talking- this girl lives in another state. Okay. So, just four days ago, on our way out the door on Spring Break with the kids, he says he has to make some last minute phone calls to work (he is the boss) and check on everyone- this is not out of the ordinary, but the fact that he went in a room and closed the door was. So, being untrusting and alert, I listen. He is whispering.. Really? Well, he "feels" me at the door and comes out like a bear... So, now I know it is another woman. Which one? The same one? A different one? I am so confused. He is in complete denial. I went along on the trip so the kids would be okay. He has been so nice to me (probably guilt). When I try to bring it up he asks me not to talk about it.. Says there is no one else. Ugh! I am surprised at how I am handling this. I would like to throw up. I am thinking about the kids. I don't know what to do. He says he loves me and wants to be with me always. He said the last time that he doesn't deserve me, etc. He was so sorry, it was over and now this.. I just don't know what to do. Any suggestions other than an automatic Leave Him? I am heartbroken and just sick... Any suggestions on how to get him to talk? Etc?Thank you.



Sounds like since he's done it once and no real course of action for what he did he is continuing it. This is going to be a vicious cycle unless he gets help. (spoken from experience) And until he admitts he has a problem and seeks counsel or figures out what he wants...being you or the other life nothing is gonna get better and you are going to resent the heck out of him for staying quiet. YOu have to set boundaries..


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

Well he can't prove it. They are in two separate buildings. I know this did not stop him before. He said she has txt on e and showed me the txt and she waved at him I. The parking lot last week. Of course he said he didn't wave back. I don't believe him most of the time because he has lied to me about her before. I know her name and her husbands name and have sent them both messages w no response.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

hrtbkngrl said:


> Well he can't prove it. They are in two separate buildings. I know this did not stop him before. He said she has txt on e and showed me the txt and she waved at him I. The parking lot last week. Of course he said he didn't wave back. I don't believe him most of the time because he has lied to me about her before. I know her name and her husbands name and have sent them both messages w no response.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How did you contact her husband--via email?


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

You need to get the VAR; like yesterday.


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

I left him a voice mail and sent him an email through his Facebook.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

I am going to have to get the var and put it in his truck. He didn't care before why would he care now how I feel? I should trust my instincts. They were not wrong before.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

hrtbkngrl said:


> I left him a voice mail and sent him an email through his Facebook.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Time for something more old-fashioned, like talking to him on the phone in person, or sending him a letter to his office to his attention only with your cell phone number and email address inside.

But frankly, your husband has not ended contact sufficiently to meet the basic standards of ending an emotional affair. Working with someone in sufficient proximity so as to see them daily (with the ability to meet at will) is a fail. That is probably why your gut is telling you things haven't changed.


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

You are right. We've been looking for another job for him. I will see how counseling goes but I'm not sure if I can handle this. I need sleep. Thanks again for listening.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

Well my instincts were right again. I don't think there has been any physical contact but I intercepted an email where she said "I miss you" and he said "I know I'm sorry". I don't know what to do. Things have been going better than ever and he says it just happened today first time he responded to her. I told him before if he had contact w her it was over. I guess his "drug" was calling his name. So now I need to follow through. This SUCKS!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

hrtbkngrl said:


> Well my instincts were right again. I don't think there has been any physical contact but I intercepted an email where she said "I miss you" and he said "I know I'm sorry". I don't know what to do. Things have been going better than ever and he says it just happened today first time he responded to her. I told him before if he had contact w her it was over. I guess his "drug" was calling his name. So now I need to follow through. This SUCKS!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What is his job situation; still dragging his feet? How has counseling been?

He does need some consequences. I can't recall if you told his family?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

No. Didn't tell family because I'm embarrassed and they are not the nurturing kind. Counseling has been good unfortunately there has only been 3 sessions because the counselor travels here. Everything has been going great. Open communication-him volunteering when he sees her at work, he's been coming home and staying home every day at noon. He sent his resume to two places but they hired someone else. He is still looking. He's been loving, attentive, helpful. He hasn't been that in years. I really don't know if this is a one time email or not sounded like it from what I saw but I can never be sure and I don't believe him that it was. So I don't know if this warrants a boot out the door or not. It really could be just a slip. He did offer to follow up with an email telling her that he made a mistake and that he lives his wife and family and not to contact him again. I will watch over that of course.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Does he have a minister, priest, sibling, respected older relative you could expose the affair to? He needs someone to hold him accountable until he gets another job. 

What is his response to you about answering her and doing it in an attentive way? What consequences did you give for breaking NC; filing D?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> Does he have a minister, priest, sibling, respected older relative you could expose the affair to? He needs someone to hold him accountable until he gets another job.
> 
> What is his response to you about answering her and doing it in an attentive way? What consequences did you give for breaking NC; filing D?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


His sister may be able to help. I will talk to her about it. As for his response, he said he was sorry and an idiot. He didn't know why he replied (which I don't believe). He said he knows he has really screwed it up and all of our work on repairing our relationship is probably ruined now. Yes my consequence was D.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

hrtbkngrl said:


> His sister may be able to help. I will talk to her about it. As for his response, he said he was sorry and an idiot. He didn't know why he replied (which I don't believe). He said he knows he has really screwed it up and all of our work on repairing our relationship is probably ruined now. Yes my consequence was D.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I would try one more thing first, which is to sit down with his sister and he tells her in front of you. You ask her for help in supporting the marriage. 
Instead of filing, visit a lawyer and get the paperwirk and leave it out for him to see. This is not a game; it is one last chance for him to prove himself. Threats of divorce do not work, but maybe exposing the A to his sister will wake him up.

You are in such a tough spot, staying home and your H still working with his AP and not having a counselor nearby.

Also, what if your counselor will do a telephone session? You need to discuss this setback.

Has your H read Not Just Friends yet?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> I would try one more thing first, which is to sit down with his sister and he tells her in front of you. You ask her for help in supporting the marriage.
> Instead of filing, visit a lawyer and get the paperwirk and leave it out for him to see. This is not a game; it is one last chance for him to prove himself. Threats of divorce do not work, but maybe exposing the A to his sister will wake him up.
> 
> You are in such a tough spot, staying home and your H still working with his AP and not having a counselor nearby.
> ...


I will try to contact our counselor. He has not read it yet. I'm still reading it. Thanks for the suggestion its very informative but I can't seem to find what to do in this situation. 
Thank you for your advice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Another NC letter is useless. If he sends another one he could easly tell aher at work you forced him. NC letter are supossed to be a milestine. He screwed up the first one.
Another thing is, asuming he really goes NC for a while, quit that job but OW keeps agresively fishing or goes bunnyboiler. In this you might need another NC, worded in a way you can get easyky a RO against her in case she keeps harrasing.


----------



## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Has human resources at the workplace been notified? It doesn't always mean a termination but additional exposure might help don't you think? And frankly if you intend to continue R in the relationship he has to leave that job and now. Your marriage will not survive with him still working there. No delays, no I'm looking for another job. He needs to quit now.


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> Has human resources at the workplace been notified? It doesn't always mean a termination but additional exposure might help don't you think? And frankly if you intend to continue R in the relationship he has to leave that job and now. Your marriage will not survive with him still working there. No delays, no I'm looking for another job. He needs to quit now.


It's a religious college. They will not tolerate this and I have no job and we live in a small town where jobs are scarce. This would not be good if he stays OR goes. I don't know if I am going to R w him or not. Probably not. I feel he's made his choice. Even after all of the work we have done these last two months.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

Acabado said:


> Another NC letter is useless. If he sends another one he could easly tell aher at work you forced him. NC letter are supossed to be a milestine. He screwed up the first one.
> Another thing is, asuming he really goes NC for a while, quit that job but OW keeps agresively fishing or goes bunnyboiler. In this you might need another NC, worded in a way you can get easyky a RO against her in case she keeps harrasing.


Correct about the second NC letter. That was exactly what he said. Said its better to just keep looking for a job and not cave in again. She did email him this morning and he sent it to me. She said she was sorry for contacting him she just wanted him to know she was thinking about him and if he doesn't respond she won't bother him again. Only time will tell.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

hrtbkngrl said:


> It's a religious college. They will not tolerate this and I have no job and we live in a small town where jobs are scarce. This would not be good if he stays OR goes. I don't know if I am going to R w him or not. Probably not. I feel he's made his choice. Even after all of the work we have done these last two months.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It takes two to reconcile. If he is not committed then you can't do anything about it. Fact is, as long as he is at that job the affair is continuing in one form or another. If I were you I'd rather live in a cardboard box and be on welfare than lose my family. You both need to make a choice. He quits his job, you both stick together and have less money or divorce now and let him pay child support. It really does come down to just that, right?


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> It takes two to reconcile. If he is not committed then you can't do anything about it. Fact is, as long as he is at that job the affair is continuing in one form or another. If I were you I'd rather live in a cardboard box and be on welfare than lose my family. You both need to make a choice. He quits his job, you both stick together and have less money or divorce now and let him pay child support. It really does come down to just that, right?


You are completely right and I feel the same way. Thank you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> It takes two to reconcile. If he is not committed then you can't do anything about it. Fact is, as long as he is at that job the affair is continuing in one form or another. If I were you I'd rather live in a cardboard box and be on welfare than lose my family. You both need to make a choice. He quits his job, you both stick together and have less money or divorce now and let him pay child support. It really does come down to just that, right?


Oh this is so hard! I haven't posted in a couple of weeks and I'm in the same place in many ways. I don't know how I missed your thread before but it's painful to read because I'm facing similar (but not all) circumstances. We have our second counseling session tomorrow night and I've just gone through a hefty two weeks of anger and find it hard to believe that they have as little contact as they do. (He reports to me if he even hears her voice in the hallway.) Even though he's looking for a new job it can't come soon enough and with each work day I find myself a little more withdrawn and doubtful. 

The tough part is these folk on this forum know their stuff! And you want to be the exception but the reality is all of these stories and patterns are just so darn similar. I want so badly for your husband to snap out of it and do the hard work like iheartlife's has because one more success story is one more candle of hope. Boy I want your husband to GET IT! I'm rooting for YOU -- and your kids. 

(Of course my, at times, overly suspicious mind wonders did the OW send that last email on purpose as a decoy..."if I don't hear back I won't bother you again" -- so he could say, "See, I haven't responded so its done". But the other side says, he's accounting for his time and trying to be transparent...Reality is as long as they work together (same goes for my sit) there can be no true reconciliation. It does suck. Ugh!)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

thesunwillcomeout said:


> Oh this is so hard! I haven't posted in a couple of weeks and I'm in the same place in many ways. I don't know how I missed your thread before but it's painful to read because I'm facing similar (but not all) circumstances. We have our second counseling session tomorrow night and I've just gone through a hefty two weeks of anger and find it hard to believe that they have as little contact as they do. (He reports to me if he even hears her voice in the hallway.) Even though he's looking for a new job it can't come soon enough and with each work day I find myself a little more withdrawn and doubtful.
> 
> The tough part is these folk on this forum know their stuff! And you want to be the exception but the reality is all of these stories and patterns are just so darn similar. I want so badly for your husband to snap out of it and do the hard work like iheartlife's has because one more success story is one more candle of hope. Boy I want your husband to GET IT! I'm rooting for YOU -- and your kids.
> 
> ...


Oh I'm sorry to hear that you are going through the same thing. This has been very traumatic to me. It's right up there w watching my mother pass away. I know this sounds awful but sometime I think this is worse because it's ongoing and in my face w my mom it was over. I too have an over active imagination and very suspicious mind especially since because he's been swearing to me since October that he's sorry, it's over, etc. and that's before I found out about the PA. I'm going to have to contact the OW husband AGAIN and tell him that she's not giving their relationship her all that she's still trying to R w my H. 

Question: how have you been handling this? Did you ask your H to leave? What has his reaction been to you finding out? How did you find out? (if you don't mind me asking) you are right about the people on here. They have been great and very helpful. I too hope my relationship ends up like iheartlife's. She told me about the book Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass. It has really been helpful. Have you read it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

Acabado said:


> Another NC letter is useless. If he sends another one he could easly tell aher at work you forced him. NC letter are supossed to be a milestine. He screwed up the first one.
> Another thing is, asuming he really goes NC for a while, quit that job but OW keeps agresively fishing or goes bunnyboiler. In this you might need another NC, worded in a way you can get easyky a RO against her in case she keeps harrasing.


Well since this latest incident I almost feel like the OW is going to turn into a bunny boiler. I may have to get a RO out on her H though. He saw me driving my husbands truck and tried to chase me down (luckily he was on foot) then my H told me that they were both in town and he chased him down screaming at him to pull over. My H did but the OW H drove off (not that I blame the guy) BUT it's scary when I'm w my kids and he is acting like that. If it happens again I WILL get a RO.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

hrtbkngrl said:


> Oh I'm sorry to hear that you are going through the same thing. This has been very traumatic to me. It's right up there w watching my mother pass away. I know this sounds awful but sometime I think this is worse because it's ongoing and in my face w my mom it was over. I too have an over active imagination and very suspicious mind especially since because he's been swearing to me since October that he's sorry, it's over, etc. and that's before I found out about the PA. I'm going to have to contact the OW husband AGAIN and tell him that she's not giving their relationship her all that she's still trying to R w my H.
> 
> Question: how have you been handling this? Did you ask your H to leave? What has his reaction been to you finding out? How did you find out? (if you don't mind me asking) you are right about the people on here. They have been great and very helpful. I too hope my relationship ends up like iheartlife's. She told me about the book Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass. It has really been helpful. Have you read it?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'll come back to answer more of this.....I posted my (VERY) long story a few weeks ago....I have to scoot to take my son to camp and it's laborious to post via the phone. In the meantime here's my original thread http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/49584-getting-over-my-husbands-ea.html which I suppose I should update. We just had our second counseling session last night and I have some questions to ask the good folk here. 

And yes, I can't recommend Shirley Glass' book enough. It has been THE most singular helpful item in this whole process. (A gift from Above.) 

I hear you on the death part. My dad passed away 4 years ago and it was very, very hard. (And a whole string of other family "challenges".) This is constant though. 

And re contacting the OW's husband, sister, ya gotta do it. The OW knows in my case that if she starts making a play again for my husband, breaks the "NC" (which really isn't NC since they work on the same floor and he is her boss) that my (stupid) previous promise to not reveal all the gory details I know is OVER. (My mistake to make that promise before. Dumb. But I won't break my word though she knows I think (know) she has lied to her husband about the depth of her betrayal. She is petrified that if he knows everything her "marriage will be over." The ball is in her court. If she makes a play, not only one cat is out of the bag, the whole frickin' flesh-eating Lion will be out. My personal belief is that she has done this to her husband before in one way or another. 

Yes! contact the OW's husband. He deserves to know. 

Big hug to you.


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

hrtbkngrl said:


> Well since this latest incident I almost feel like the OW is going to turn into a bunny boiler. I may have to get a RO out on her H though. He saw me driving my husbands truck and tried to chase me down (luckily he was on foot) then my H told me that they were both in town and he chased him down screaming at him to pull over. My H did but the OW H drove off (not that I blame the guy) BUT it's scary when I'm w my kids and he is acting like that. If it happens again I WILL get a RO.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I didn't see this post when I last commented. YIKES! What a bummer. Postal people. There is no way anyone can call any kind of affair rational, with rational results. Loco!

On another topic, I haven't updated yet. I really suppose I should. I'm dragging my feet. There are so many things I want to ask/fill-in that it's overwhelming. What has been helping is reading the threads started by canttrustu. Wow, so much of her story (not all) mirrors these, only her husband no longer works with the OW. Her DD was about the same time as mine but I didn't start posting here until much later. I'm finding her threads very helpful in understanding the emotional ups and downs and the confirmation of these torturous feelings of having your spouse still work with OW. Last night we had a pretty (actually more than pretty) intense talk about addressing the infidelity as the primary goal of our counseling and then addressing the problems in our marriage, patterns that created a climate that set the stage. Our counselor embraces the "Hold Me Tight" book and approach. Right now I'm watching....not sure about the marriage first and addressing infedility within it approach. I'm thinking infidelity first. Of course I'm petrified of being in false R - and having something happen like with iheartlife's husband, 6 months of counseling while the EA continues underground. My husband knows all of this. I have access to his cell, ipad. I've dropped in on him at work and asked him to block her on his inter-office IM system. (I plan on popping in at another time to make sure she's still blocked.) But regardless none of this would be as tough if he were out of that job. That goes for both of us.

I'm rambling.

Hope you're doing okay today?


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

thesunwillcomeout said:


> I didn't see this post when I last commented. YIKES! What a bummer. Postal people. There is no way anyone can call any kind of affair rational, with rational results. Loco!
> 
> On another topic, I haven't updated yet. I really suppose I should. I'm dragging my feet. There are so many things I want to ask/fill-in that it's overwhelming. What has been helping is reading the threads started by canttrustu. Wow, so much of her story (not all) mirrors these, only her husband no longer works with the OW. Her DD was about the same time as mine but I didn't start posting here until much later. I'm finding her threads very helpful in understanding the emotional ups and downs and the confirmation of these torturous feelings of having your spouse still work with OW. Last night we had a pretty (actually more than pretty) intense talk about addressing the infidelity as the primary goal of our counseling and then addressing the problems in our marriage, patterns that created a climate that set the stage. Our counselor embraces the "Hold Me Tight" book and approach. Right now I'm watching....not sure about the marriage first and addressing infedility within it approach. I'm thinking infidelity first. Of course I'm petrified of being in false R - and having something happen like with iheartlife's husband, 6 months of counseling while the EA continues underground. My husband knows all of this. I have access to his cell, ipad. I've dropped in on him at work and asked him to block her on his inter-office IM system. (I plan on popping in at another time to make sure she's still blocked.) But regardless none of this would be as tough if he were out of that job. That goes for both of us.
> 
> ...



No it's good for me to hear about other experiences to help me know I'm not crazy. I will check out tha other thread. Thank you. Today and yesterday are not good days for me. It's not a worse feeling but almost than I had DD and after. Idk. It's right up there. I was doing really well. Starting to be able to push thoughts out of my mind then some alarm went off and the I found the email and now I'm back here. Except this time I'm extremely depressed. I am not sure if I can get past this one. It seems what little bit of hope I had fizzled out when I saw the email- "innocent" as it may be. Sorry to be a downer. 

How are you doing today?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

You're not being a downer; It's natural to be hurt by continued contact and that's exactly what it is. And I wouldn't call a fishing email "innocent". AND the fact that he responded to her fishing comment says the fog is still over his bay at least a little bit. Of course any fog isn't good. I think our anger and reactions to continued contact/slip-ups serve as a big FOG HORN, but after a while it just gets so tiring. 

When this whole thing blew up for us, the dodo kept popping up in his office, sending him IM's to see how he was doing. He wouldn't respond to her emails or im's. When he let her know that I had access to all of his emails she stopped communicating that way. When she went to im's he wouldn't respond and he'd write them down and bring them home to me (until he figured out how to cut and paste them into an email and since then she hasn't sent a single one.) It took me showing up at her house to talk to her husband (boy was that awkward, but good) for her to get irate and tell my husband to tell me to "never come near my family again" -- the nerve! I wrote her a letter and started off my saying "I promise, if you promise" ha ha ha. 

Anyway...I have this terrible habit of digressing. Since then unless it's absolutely necessary they (seem) to both be avoiding each other at work. But you know what? I'm not there. I can't verify. I've thought of meeting with his secretary with whom I've been close and clueing her in (though I'll bet she knows) and asking her to keep an eye on things. I just don't trust the OW (obviously, she's not trustworthy). She continues to hang out with her close "guy friends" in the department and I have no doubt she sucks others in but what happens is I start to focus on her instead of the real issue which is our marriage, my husband and his attempts at reconcilliation and full transparency. He told me a couple of days ago he was in the "kitchen" area of his floor getting something out of the fridge and she walked by and he started to say hello but ended up catching himself as he said it and therefore said it very quietly as he pulled-back. She just walked by and didn't say anything and he says he thinks she didn't hear him. Though I appreciate him telling me this, boy its a trigger because his knee jerk reaction was to say hello. Not good -- but after intense, intense constant communication between them for months the knee-jerk would just go away? In any case I told him what he already knew....he shouldn't even be saying "hi" to her. I should be telling him it hurts me, but my automatic reaction is to get angry. And we both acknowledge that that can cause him to not want to share any contact though he continues (I hope) to do so. 

It sucks that stupid interactions like these should even be issues in our lives. It sucks that you had to read that email --- Your husband needs to know (and he does?) that that slip has done HUGE damage and set you back. It hurts my husband to hear it but he knows if he goes back into this affair I can't go through it again. (Of course lots of people on here have given their other's another shot, and I cringe at the thought that I might too. But my mom did with my dad and the reward down the road was significant.) I'm sorry I'm rambling....I don't know if any of this is helpful. I'm just so sorry there was, for you, that email to read. I've had so many of these spikes that I'm just hoping/praying/crossing my fingers there aren't more, but you know what? It's possible. 

As far as how I'm doing, it's friday, so the end of the work week. He's at work. Therefore I have a pit in my stomach. Tomorrow will be better.


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

thesunwillcomeout said:


> You're not being a downer; It's natural to be hurt by continued contact and that's exactly what it is. And I wouldn't call a fishing email "innocent". AND the fact that he responded to her fishing comment says the fog is still over his bay at least a little bit. Of course any fog isn't good. I think our anger and reactions to continued contact/slip-ups serve as a big FOG HORN, but after a while it just gets so tiring.
> 
> You are so right!! And yes I can tell that not all of the fog has cleared. It just kills me. I found a song that she asked him to learn on the guitar for her. A thousand years by Christina Perry. I tore it up. Also found a poem he wrote about her and that song. Very painful. Also tore it up. Guess he hasn't cleaned up everything he said he did.
> 
> ...


Yes I have a pit in my stomach today. Hell be home soon though. Please let me know how you are doing today.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

Hi! We had a great weekend and last night a VERY good session in MC. Needless to say the need for a new job and new direction for our family is in the forefront but also re-connecting emotionally, the two of us. The transparency he had with me and in front of the counselor was pretty remarkable. In fact he even brought things back to his betrayal when she started to focus on how we both were moving away from each other when all of this stuff happened. He clarified to the counselor who was almost leveling the playing field and said "yes, but she wasn't unfaithful, whereas I dealt with it by betraying her." His actions this last week were there. I felt more secure. Of course every day is a test and he knows my fear about erosion through time. I'm glad we're in counseling. I'm glad we're both reading the books. (They've been helping.). And when his parents come to visit this week he plans on telling them with me present. I have a measure of hope. 

Is your husband reading "Not Just Friends" or any of the other books? Do you have support nearby? If you want to PM we can. I'm wondering how you're doing and if your husband got what his replying to her has done? How are you??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

Btw the BS of the OW in your camp really does sound freaky.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hrtbkngrl (Apr 9, 2012)

thesunwillcomeout said:


> Btw the BS of the OW in your camp really does sound freaky.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm confused on this last post. Yes PM would be good. I'm not sure how to do it. I'm glad things are going good for you. It is a day to day thing. My husband does know what this last contact has done to me and he has been very good about it. Unfortunately we cannot go to counseling anymore. Our insurance has denied it. So books and Internet are all we have right now. I cannot get him to read the books but he will listen to what I've read and learned from it. That's a plus. And no support system here. We are living in a small town because of his job and still don't really know anyone here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------

