# Opposite sex friend boundaries?



## lessthennone (Jun 19, 2014)

I'm curious what people think are reasonable boundaries for the opposite sex. My wife is very social. She makes friends everywhere. A year ago, I got suspicious of one after I saw a snapchat message asking him if he was going to the bar. She was just looking for someone to go with, but some of her story didn't add up. I told her I wasn't comfortable with it. It caused a lot of drama. 

Recently, she made a new male friend who works at a shop she frequents. She had a fairly substantial text exchange with him. About 200 texts over 3 days. It was mostly about music, but they did compare ages and she mentioned to him that she wanted to go to the bar with one of his female coworkers. I took this as a backdoor way to invite him without inviting him. But I could be wrong. I did say that I'd be uncomfortable if she went out with him. She asked what about if they all went out together. IE, the guy and his female coworker. 

Since the first situation, I tried setting up boundaries, but I'm not sure they are reasonable. That said, every boundary I tried setting up was consistent with what I thought was reasonable. IE... IF it would be inappropriate for me, then it would be inappropriate for her. 

I wouldn't meet and start texting a woman. But, I'm not very social. When I confront her, she gets defensive and falls back on needing to be social. 

I am going to therapy to try and repress and deal with these feelings, but it always makes me worry. That said, I overthink everything.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

lessthennone said:


> IF it would be inappropriate for me, then it would be inappropriate for her.


I'm going to start here. Who is making this determination of "inappropriate"? If this is you thinking it's inappropriate for you to do A thus it is inappropriate for her to do A, then you are projecting on her. She might feel that A is appropriate for both of you to do.

However, if she is saying that it's appropriate for her to do A, but not appropriate for you to do A, then she is being hypocritical.

In the first case she is being consistent and holding to a standard that happens to be different than yours. In the latter, she is trying to hold you to a different standard than she practice s as opposed to just letting you have your own standard.

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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

I think you are wise to recognize this IS a problem! Just because she is naive, it doesn't mean the male friends are in agreement!

Nor sure this applies, but maybe:


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

lessthennone said:


> I'm curious what people think are reasonable boundaries for the opposite sex. My wife is very social. She makes friends everywhere. A year ago, I got suspicious of one after I saw a snapchat message asking him if he was going to the bar. She was just looking for someone to go with, but some of her story didn't add up. I told her I wasn't comfortable with it. It caused a lot of drama.


That would be a date to me. If my wife did that, I'd interpret her as asking the dude out on a date, and that would be awfully close to a relationship extinction level event for me.



> Recently, she made a new male friend who works at a shop she frequents. She had a fairly substantial text exchange with him. About 200 texts over 3 days. It was mostly about music, but they did compare ages and she mentioned to him that she wanted to go to the bar with one of his female coworkers. I took this as a backdoor way to invite him without inviting him. But I could be wrong. I did say that I'd be uncomfortable if she went out with him. She asked what about if they all went out together. IE, the guy and his female coworker.


200 texts in 3 days sends a pretty big message that your wife is very open to other men.



> Since the first situation, I tried setting up boundaries, but I'm not sure they are reasonable. That said, every boundary I tried setting up was consistent with what I thought was reasonable. IE... IF it would be inappropriate for me, then it would be inappropriate for her.
> 
> I wouldn't meet and start texting a woman. But, I'm not very social. When I confront her, she gets defensive and falls back on needing to be social.
> 
> I am going to therapy to try and repress and deal with these feelings, but it always makes me worry. That said, I overthink everything.


Listen... my wife went through some of this. And it basically came down to him or me. She picked me. 

I refused to be my wife's boundary police. She could either manage her own boundaries in a respectful way that I was comfortable with, or not. And if the answer was 'not', then I was out of there.

I do not recommend ultimatums. I do not recommend lengthy legalistic conversations about boundaries. I do recommend conversations about honesty, integrity, and respect.

And I'll tell you right now that the only way we got there was when I started doing exactly what my wife was doing. Going out to coed events, being open to friendships with other women, texting other women, etc. All very platonic, of course. I was quite explicit about what the relationship was to everyone. 

But six months of talk about boundaries went nowhere but accusations of me controlling her and not trusting her. Begging and pleading made it worse.

Acting like she did for 3 weeks got her begging to talk about boundaries with me. Then, we had the right conversations. She realized she didn't have a leg to stand on being upset when I was going out to things that included other women when she was doing the exact same things. Then the light bulb went on about how I was feeling.


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## lessthennone (Jun 19, 2014)

maquiscat said:


> I'm going to start here. Who is making this determination of "inappropriate"? If this is you thinking it's inappropriate for you to do A thus it is inappropriate for her to do A, then you are projecting on her. She might feel that A is appropriate for both of you to do.
> 
> However, if she is saying that it's appropriate for her to do A, but not appropriate for you to do A, then she is being hypocritical.
> 
> ...


It does seem like it's a different standard, but the justification is her needing to be social. But, yes, since I stick to my own firm boundaries, she's never had the opportunity to see it the other way around.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

lessthennone said:


> It does seem like it's a different standard, but the justification is her needing to be social. But, yes, since I stick to my own firm boundaries, she's never had the opportunity to see it the other way around.


You’re wife has pissed on every boundary you’ve ever tried to place on her.
She does what she wants and you’re not going to actually do anything are you?
Because I have a feeling of deja vu about this post.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Isn't this a repeat of the same topic?

I just recall commenting on the over 200 texts info.

All of that is way out of line btw. In any sense of just being social with another guy. Or any opposite sex companion unless waaayy extenuating circumstances.


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## lessthennone (Jun 19, 2014)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Isn't this a repeat of the same topic?
> 
> I just recall commenting on the over 200 texts info.
> 
> All of that is way out of line btw. In any sense of just being social with another guy. Or any opposite sex companion unless waaayy extenuating circumstances.


I mentioned it in another post. I think you commented.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

I thought so. Anyway, dude, something is amiss here imho.

"I'm just social" is almost always a statement meaning an SO wants to be in a relationship yet have the freedom to act single when they want, always keeping one foot in the public playpen.

Tragic but true.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

“Wife, I’ve decided I’m going to be more social. I’m going to the bar with my friend Sally from work tonight to see what you find so great about going on ‘totally innocent’ dates with opposite sex people while you’re married. Don’t wait up.”


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Most of the feet here on TAM, are still raw and bleeding from being led down the same rocky trail that you detail.

Your wife is desperate for male attention. I could write two pages of truth cutesies to illustrate my point, but why bother?

She pees true love or she gets off her marriage spot. Actions speak truth. Her actions bare her bottom-line intentions.

Oh, she has a thing for bars, I guess it is some hookup fantasy of hers??




KB-


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

lessthennone said:


> It does seem like it's a different standard, but the justification is her needing to be social. But, yes, since I stick to my own firm boundaries, she's never had the opportunity to see it the other way around.


Didn't quite answer my question, which is also one you need to be asking of yourself as well. Does she have a standard different yours, that she would be fine with you working with her standard? IOW, if you were to do the exact same thing as her, as a previous poster did, would she consider you doing something acceptable, or something wrong? If she would consider it acceptable, then the issue lies with you not her. 

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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Isn't this a repeat of the same topic?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This says insecurity to me. If you are not trusting of your spouse around the opposite sex, then what trust can you have in them? What if your spouse were bisexual? Would it be inappropriate for them to have any friends?

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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

maquiscat said:


> Didn't quite answer my question, which is also one you need to be asking of yourself as well. Does she have a standard different yours, that she would be fine with you working with her standard? IOW, if you were to do the exact same thing as her, as a previous poster did, would she consider you doing something acceptable, or something wrong? If she would consider it acceptable, then the issue lies with you not her.
> 
> Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


I asked my wife if she would be OK with me doing what she was doing. She was 100% adamant that she would be.

Until I actually did it.

Things are very easy to rationalize in theory. Harder when it's actually happening.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

I can understand you're in a pretty precarious position of not being very social but your wife is, so you're not sure where to draw the line.

But there are three things to consider:

1. To consider whether or not your wife's actions are disrespectful. You referred to 200 text messages over 3 days as "fairly substantial." But that is NOT fairly substantial. That is out and out excessive - overly excessive. There should not be 200 texts between your wife and another man over the course of her entire marriage, whether she's married for 3 days or 50 years.

2. You have to learn to listen to your instincts, rather than try to suppress them. If your gut is telling you something amiss, then something is amiss. You're afraid to confront her out of fear that she might not feel the same as you, so you don't want to think you're trying to control her. But your fear is only holding YOU back. It's not holding her back. It's permitting her to do as she pleases. Despite what she pleases, you have the right to impose healthy boundaries. You don't have to accept her disrespect and shouldn't.

If a married person is a social butterfly, they are supposed to learn to quell certain behaviors in order to comply with the acceptable behaviors of being married. For one thing, a married woman shouldn't be giving her husband any reason whatsoever to suspect or even wonder about her actions, whereabouts, or with whom. Secondly, she shouldn't be doing anything that - even by the farthest stretch of the imagination - could be considered inappropriate. She should avoid any appearance of impropriety at all cost. This is out of respect for the man she married. But not only that, she should have more respect for herself than that. She needs to find other ways to be social that won't cast suspicion or aspersions on herself, her husband, or her marriage. The integrity of the marriage is at stake here.

3. Your wife is not the only who needs to understand her role and how her behavior can have consequences. You need to understand those things too. Just like her, you are married. You're a husband now, so you need to learn how to change your own behaviors in order to accommodate your marriage and to do your part in maintaining its integrity. If you don't know your job description, here it is:

Profess
Provide
Protect

The last one is the one I want to discuss since it directly pertains to this subject matter. You say your wife is social but you are not, but she shouldn't be left without her constant companion, which is supposed to be her husband. Instead, your wife is looking for company to be social with. But she's married. She shouldn't have to be LOOKING for companionship in doing the things she likes to do. She shouldn't have to find someone to do things with.

In addition to whatever you take the duty "Protect" to mean, you have to understand that protecting your marriage requires your presence because your presence means security - her security and your marriage's security. By her side is where you are supposed to be. With you there, you won't have to be concerned or suspicious of her and some other man. And if she knows she can depend on you being by her side, she won't be planning dates with some other man because a *date* is exactly what this is. And men would be less likely to approach her if you are there. Do you see the security your presence represents?

She is too comfortable and relies on your non-social preferences. As a result, she is disrespecting you, disrespecting her marriage, and disrespecting herself. But you also need to move out of your comfort zone to protect your wife and your marriage. Being social doesn't have to change for her. She just needs to accept and adjust to what is acceptable and what is unacceptable of a married woman. You, on the other hand, do need to change and move out of your comfort zone. It won't hurt you to socialize with your wife because you can't expect her to want to stay at home all the time. She needs to quell her activities to some degree. Maybe not go out as often to be more accommodating to your needs, and definitely not communicate with or go out with any other men. And you need to step up and step into your rightful place by her side.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

My husband and I never spelled out what these boundaries need to be. But since he dumped his "friend" we have not had any problems.

I would be uncomfortable if I knew that my husband was heavily texting another woman unless they working on a specific project together. And then it stopped once the project was finished.

Both he and I are involved in some community activities. We both know if we need to meet up with someone, that it will take place at a local coffee shop.

I would be very concerned if my husband took a liking to someone who engages in behavior that he doesn't like ......especially if he were particularly hard on me about it. For example, in my first marriage, my husband was very cutting with me if I ever slipped up and repeated myself on something. Even if it were about repeating an anecdote weeks apart. I noticed that one wife of my husband's friends would repeat herself quite a bit but he never seemed bothered by that. That is a definite sign of an EA.


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## lessthennone (Jun 19, 2014)

maquiscat said:


> Didn't quite answer my question, which is also one you need to be asking of yourself as well. Does she have a standard different yours, that she would be fine with you working with her standard? IOW, if you were to do the exact same thing as her, as a previous poster did, would she consider you doing something acceptable, or something wrong? If she would consider it acceptable, then the issue lies with you not her.
> 
> Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


When I specifically ask her, she's unclear. The only thing I could do to test it would be to actually create that situation as was suggested above, but I'm not willing to. 

My feeling is she would not be happy at all about it.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

You need to get these, 

Hold on to Your Nuts: The Relationship Manual for Men
Book by Wayne Levine


No More Mr. Nice Guy
Book by Robert A. Glover

Your not her dad but her husband.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

What is up with bars and meeting up with OM because is it is a social thing? This is not a social activity of any married women I know.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

lessthennone said:


> When I specifically ask her, she's unclear. The only thing I could do to test it would be to actually create that situation as was suggested above, but I'm not willing to.
> 
> 
> 
> My feeling is she would not be happy at all about it.


Sadly that is going to be the thing to find out. Whether she is trying to hold a double standard, intentionally or unintentionally, or are you trying to change her?

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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

maquiscat said:


> This says insecurity to me. If you are not trusting of your spouse around the opposite sex, then what trust can you have in them? What if your spouse were bisexual? Would it be inappropriate for them to have any friends?
> 
> Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


Really?

And we have a winner for the "well, what if" responses.

Are you justifying something?


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

Why is her need to socialize dependent on interacting with OM? 
Why does she go out to bars without you?

It sounds like her need to socialize is just a cover story to justify getting attention from men.

You are not controlling or jealous. Every spouse has an obligation to make their partner feel safe. IMO her behavior fails. Among other things, boundaries and same sex friends & activities help maintain trust in a marriage. 

Both of you should read: "Not Just Friends" by Dr Shirley Glass. 

It's based on researching couples that experienced infidelity (and the behavior and lack of boundaries that made the marriage vulnerable to cheating). 
You both can read this and discuss within 1 weekend. 

If your wife is serious about protecting her marriage from infidelity, after reading this book she should voluntarily change her behavior.
Finally, if she's not interested in changing or is too immature (and there's no kids), you should protect yourself and consider divorce.


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## cashcratebob (Jan 10, 2018)

I have "necessary" opposite sex relationships, because of the nature of my work. I participate in those relationships in work and indulge the pleasantries/courtesies at work. That's it. And that is the same standard I hold my wife to. I don't need opposite sex friends, hell at this point I don't need friends, family is far more important (my bias, I know). Even if the same wasn't true for my wife I would expect the same standard. 200 texts is excessive; drinking at a bar w/om is ridiculous; like another poster said, that's a date. 

Using "Social" as an excuse is just poor thinking and excessive rationalization. If you're so social than hang with your girlfriends. Why does she need/want this guy? The Social benefit of the doubt is, "ok, so you're social so naturally you invite anyone out...understood" But I ain't ok with it. And I am not ok with 200 texts.That should be enough.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

lessthennone said:


> {They had} about 200 texts over 3 days. It was mostly about music, but they did compare ages and she mentioned to him that she wanted to go to the bar with one of his female coworkers.


This back and forth with texts is meaningful in a general sense. With OP's wife...for sure.
She finds them titillating. This is normal.

.............................................................

Men-

In (4 Star) General, with reference to their Buck Privates:

Men seem to dwell on images, form factors. The way to a man's heart is through his eyes. What he views.

There is this direct link; a man's eyes to his peen.

............................................................

Women-

Women pay-heed, play-heed to words, those written and spoken. The way to a women's heart is through her ears, and though her Reading Railroad eyes.
When ladies read those beloved words, they quietly mouth them, warmly speak them second hand for ultimate effect.

There is this direct link; a women's ears to her sensitive twitcher.



The Typist I-


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

maquiscat said:


> This says insecurity to me. If you are not trusting of your spouse around the opposite sex, then what trust can you have in them? What if your spouse were bisexual? Would it be inappropriate for them to have any friends?
> 
> Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


Insecurity?
Hmmm?

Nice try, try as you may. 
We know your take on things......

This wife is a whistle blower, she coyly whistles at many a male pooch.

OP, he is a whistler, he whistles past each graveyard, hoping to show a strong face in the wake of his wife's looming and cheating spirit.

Trying to defend the wife is siding, sidling up with her.



KB-


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Yeswecan said:


> What is up with bars and meeting up with OM because is it is a social thing? This is not a social activity of any married women I know.


Think about it......

In Pubs and Bars

There is music.
There is laughter.
There is camaraderie.
There is the sweet buzz from the alcohol.
There is some little filter on any words spoken. 
There is light touching.
There is coy banter and flirting.
There is sexual talk.
There is eye locking.
There is that release from common sense boundaries.

OP's wife must have many fond memories in those Pubs.

Then again, where else can one go to flirt? Not to the library, not to Star Bucks!

In the old days one got buzzed in a smoky place, where no one cared how much you drank or how you acted, or what fools you made of yourself. 

Why? Everyone was in that same dull haze of intoxication.

You could hide, and flirt in the open. And, no one seemed to care.

Life in a crowded bar where drinks are downed aplenty, is the closest thing to being free and single.
And, socializing in those Honky-tonks becomes habit forming, just as much as alcohol becomes that habitual scourge.
Both will take you to the grave, after first stopping at divorce court.


KB-


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Everyone is different. But for me, I would not be ok with my SO meeting new girls and exchanging numbers and social media’s and texting and/or hanging out.
It’s ok to talk to your friends that are girls that you have known for years and years. It’s ok to have a convo with a work colleague about work related stuff. It’s ok to hang out with people in a group. It’s not ok to meet with a women one on one unless it’s a friend you have known for years. 

I’m pretty traditional in my relationships so I get how not everyone agrees to this. It’s less about trust and more about respect.


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## lessthennone (Jun 19, 2014)

I should point out that as soon as I saw that first invitation, I put an end to it. I said I was OK with her going out to the bar with friends (assuming female). This text was the first hint that it was anything besides a GNO. And I was not OK with it. 

The reason I noticed this other guy was because my daughters ipad was pinging. Its linked to both our phones. So all of our messages pop up there. She never went out with him. Maybe it's my insecurity thinking the mention of the bar and the coworker were a backdoor invite. It just seemed like the quantity of texts was excessive. I used that word with her, and she said "Excessive to you."

I'm a naturally paranoid guy. When it comes to sex/flirting, she is extremely naive. I think it's a reason our intimacy never seems to be firing on all cylinders. Intimacy isn't her wheelhouse. Socializing is. She says she always gravitated towards male friends. I pointed out that it was before we were married. I do trust her, but this stuff just makes me uncomfortable. 

If I was fine with it, then she'd go out a lot more often, and if she cheated, I'd never know.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

lessthennone said:


> I should point out that as soon as I saw that first invitation, I put an end to it. I said I was OK with her going out to the bar with friends (assuming female). This text was the first hint that it was anything besides a GNO. And I was not OK with it.
> 
> The reason I noticed this other guy was because my daughters ipad was pinging. Its linked to both our phones. So all of our messages pop up there. She never went out with him. Maybe it's my insecurity thinking the mention of the bar and the coworker were a backdoor invite. It just seemed like the quantity of texts was excessive. I used that word with her, and she said "Excessive to you."
> 
> ...




You sound very nice and trusting and that’s a good thing. However, she needs to be a little more respectful of your feelings. She should care that her behavior bothers you. To me, this is a bigger issue.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

I did some reading at random in your past posts. You are 40ish, have been married 13+ years, have children 6+ and 8+. Is she still a stay-at-home mom while you work hard 5 days a week? You also help a lot around the house.

As has been said, she will not change. 'Social' is a code-word for doing what I want to do with whomever I want to do it. You had a breakdown in the past because of her behavior and have been working on yourself for a long time. I think you deserve better.

Sex was good but became a problem after childbirth. She lied about the Snapchat guy being at the bar and then y'all 'ran into him' at a concert. You have said you will never leave her and she has questioned your backbone.

It seems to me she has removed herself more and more from wife status over the years. Y'all argue. She does not show you respect.

I am older than many here. The most important things to me now are the folks I love, the friends I've made, the places I've gone, and the memories I've made (and embarrassingly the great food I've eaten).

It seems to me you are stuck in a miserable limbo because you can't envision change in your life. What do you have to compare it to? Your past will likely be your future--except worse--if only.....

What are your memories going to be?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

lessthennone said:


> I'm curious what people think are reasonable boundaries for the opposite sex. My wife is very social. She makes friends everywhere. A year ago, I got suspicious of one after I saw a snapchat message asking him if he was going to the bar. She was just looking for someone to go with, but some of her story didn't add up. I told her I wasn't comfortable with it. It caused a lot of drama.
> 
> Recently, she made a new male friend who works at a shop she frequents. She had a fairly substantial text exchange with him. About 200 texts over 3 days. It was mostly about music, but they did compare ages and she mentioned to him that she wanted to go to the bar with one of his female coworkers. I took this as a backdoor way to invite him without inviting him. But I could be wrong. I did say that I'd be uncomfortable if she went out with him. She asked what about if they all went out together. IE, the guy and his female coworker.
> 
> ...


Your expectations and her expectations are simply incompatible. It's not a matter of who is wrong or who is right.

Why did you not enforce these boundaries before you were married? Actually nevermind that... I made the same mistake for a seperate issue in my own marriage...

Only one solution I'm afraid, someone has got to give, and if neither do so, then you will have to make the decision whether to settle for this for the rest of your life, or free yourself to find someone more aligned with your standards, expectations and boundaries.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

To be absolutely clear, I personally think what she's doing is inappropriate, and very disrespectful to her husband.

The biggest issue I have though, is that all this is going on apparently to the exclusion of her husband. She "wants to go out with them". Why can't her husband go? I'm sorry, but my husband doesn't need an invitation to come out with me and my friends. He usually doesn't because he's not really up for listening to us discuss our gyno problems pmsl, plus he gets the tele to himself hehehe.

I just told him about this thread, and I said "I'm sorry but if you're going out with another woman I'm so going too, AND I'm sitting between you" :rofl:


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

lessthennone said:


> I'm curious what people think are reasonable boundaries for the opposite sex. My wife is very social. She makes friends everywhere. A year ago, I got suspicious of one after I saw a snapchat message asking him if he was going to the bar. She was just looking for someone to go with, but some of her story didn't add up. I told her I wasn't comfortable with it. It caused a lot of drama.
> 
> Recently, she made a new male friend who works at a shop she frequents. She had a fairly substantial text exchange with him. About 200 texts over 3 days. It was mostly about music, but they did compare ages and she mentioned to him that she wanted to go to the bar with one of his female coworkers. I took this as a backdoor way to invite him without inviting him. But I could be wrong. I did say that I'd be uncomfortable if she went out with him. She asked what about if they all went out together. IE, the guy and his female coworker.
> 
> ...


For another perspective, I'll explain my boundaries. The younger generation has different boundaries. Having been around the block a few times, and read on TAM a lot, I don't have male "friends." My primary friends are female. I'm careful to not lead men on, or to put myself in a position where I might be tempted to (fill in the blank.) I don't even "friend" my husband's male friends on Facebook, even if they have been to our home for dinner. My boundaries are rock solid and very high when it comes to men.

For example, I met a guy at the guitar shop. We both spoke the same foreign language, and I chit chatted with him about guitars for a few minutes. He told me he was a pastor and wrote music as well. Since we had a similar faith, he invited me to his church, and asked to friend me on FB so I could see more about his church and the music that he writes. I told him "Thank you, but I'm married, and I don't friend men on FB, no offense, but those are my boundaries out of respect for my husband and my marriage." He took it just fine, and he pulled up a song he wrote and sang on his phone and I heard part of it right there in the store. We parted ways, will never see or hear from him again, and I'm fine with that.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

@lessthennone
Here is my take on it. If you’re not comfortable with this “friendship”, I feel you have every right in the world to ask her to end it. You also have every right in the world to join them on their “date”. If she strongly disagrees with this and continues her “friendships” and her “date” anyway without any meaningful discussion, then you know where you stand.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

lessthennone said:


> It does seem like it's a different standard, but the justification is her needing to be social. But, yes, since I stick to my own firm boundaries, she's never had the opportunity to see it the other way around.


Dates are social activities. Sex is a social activity. Any activity that involves another person is a social activity. There are many levels of social activity.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

The problem with going out with her on her 'exclusion' excursions are the children. Who watches them when both parents are out?

Can you get a baby sitter every time their mommy wants go to a bar?

Yes, I suppose you can, at least sometimes. 

Doing this and offering this might become very interesting when she nixes this idea. It would become just another thorn in both your sides.

I am all for a wife having a night out, now and then, with trusted lady friends, to a restaurant, or maybe a movie. But, never to a pub, bub.

My son in law and daughter do this a few times a month on their own. Actually, the son in law does it more often. Usually, he will go to one of his friends houses, or vice versa. And, sometimes to sporting events or trade shows.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

SunCMars said:


> The problem with going out with her on her 'exclusion' excursions are the children. Who watches them when both parents are out?
> 
> Can you get a baby sitter every time their mommy wants go to a bar?
> 
> Yes, I suppose you can, at least sometimes.


My advice to anyone whose spouse is going out without them somewhere (or with someone) that they are not comfortable with, is not to come home to watch the kids as requested. There is no better way to make your feelings of displeasure better known. Of course, be prepared for the backlash.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Boundaries need to be negotiated so that they are acceptable to both. You may each have to bend a little to reach a compromise. However, boundaries are only as good as the person observing them - are they able and willing to adhere to them, or not? Can they be trusted to adhere to them, or not? If you can reach agreement AND trust your spouse, then that should be the end of it unless there is a breach.

My wife and I have our boundaries, which are flexible enough to deal with various scenarios. And we each have boundaries that we've agreed to with different friends. With some it is okay and safe to be alone with them for an evening, and others need public venues. A very few need us both present. So it depends on our trust for each other, and how much we can trust our various friends to honor our boundaries.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

lessthennone said:


> I should point out that as soon as I saw that first invitation, I put an end to it. I said I was OK with her going out to the bar with friends (assuming female). This text was the first hint that it was anything besides a GNO. And I was not OK with it.
> 
> The reason I noticed this other guy was because my daughters ipad was pinging. Its linked to both our phones. So all of our messages pop up there. She never went out with him. Maybe it's my insecurity thinking the mention of the bar and the coworker were a backdoor invite. It just seemed like the quantity of texts was excessive. I used that word with her, and she said "Excessive to you."
> 
> ...


Dude you ooze self loathing and are full of self blame. What makes you say you are paranoid?

This post is scary. Your intimacy is messed up, but she has no problem asking a guy out to a bar.

You need therapy, but your wife is a social butterfly who asked a guy to a bar and texts another one 200 plus times in 3 days.

No, your wife isn’t the one who is naive.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

My wife and I have very loose boundaries and a lot of trust.

Both of us go on business trips, so there is ample opportunity for affairs if either wanted it. So it has to be compete trust. 

Neither has problems with us going to dinner or a movie, or concert. We basically just trust the other not to cheat. 

Wouldn't work for everyone.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

My exH didn’t care at all who I talked to or hung out with. I would never ever talk to a man that wasn’t my friend and I certainly would never hang out alone with a man. My ex would say he trusts me, and he knows I would never do anything wrong. But the fact that my own husband (ex) didn’t care that I did, bothered me. And that’s just the type of person I am. I am territorial of my man, and I want my man to be territorial over me. It’s just the way I am. And I always had issues with not feeling loved in my marriage, and him not caring about anything was a contribution to that. 
Because for myself, when I really care and love someone I care what they do. I might nag, I might complain, I will get mad and angry and fight... because I care. It’s like me getting mad at my mom for smoking, because the thought of her getting lung cancer would give me nightmares. The thought about not caring what the other person does... it’s not the way I am wired. And yes, call me controlling but I love with my whole judgemental, controlling, want the best for you heart.

And also... don’t look at my man he is mine. It’s also why I have the view that it’s my job to please him, and it’s his job to please me.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

It was exactly one year ago that your lying wife was pretending her SnapChat conversations - and late nights at the bar - were purely innocent. Oh - and back then, she fed you a bull**** story about how her 'friend' showed up at the bar with his 'girlfriend," so yannow, it was all innocent. 0

Sure it was.

And now, here she is yet *AGAIN*, engaging with the latest one and making that very same claim to you about how _innocent_ she is and scoffing at your boundaries.

Your wife doesn't just have 'inappropriate' boundaries. I think her 'activities' go a *lot* farther than just inappropriate _friendships_. God, it's *so *obvious.


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> It was exactly one year ago that your lying wife was pretending her SnapChat conversations - and late nights at the bar - were purely innocent. Oh - and back then, she fed you a bull**** story about how her 'friend' showed up at the bar with his 'girlfriend," so yannow, it was all innocent. 0
> 
> Sure it was.
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Just in case you didn't read it and comprehend the first time.

This is a pattern, a behaviour with her. You just stumbled across it twice in the last year. 
This begs the question "How many of these have you NOT stumbled across?".


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