# For whoever was following my story.....



## rome2012 (Sep 10, 2010)

.....yesterday was quite eventful....

I decided to go to the courthouse next week to find out the status of the divorce papers....

My (ex)husband went to get the mail yesterday and I saw him coming in with a big envelope....

He was trying to hide it when I asked what mail there was and so I just pulled it out of his hand...

He said "Don't open it yet !!!" I said "What is it ???" he said "It is what you think it is " (the finalization of the divorce)....

I said "Well, you can be happy now"....and he said "Do I look happy ???  ".....

I went upstairs and locked myself in the bathroom balling....

After a couple of minutes there was a knock on the door and he asked me to please come out....

I did and followed him into the bedroom....

He wrapped his arms around me and said "I didn't want you to see it and open it until after your birthday (the 12th)....and then I wanted to talk to you about it" 

I just fell apart crying saying "What is there to talk about, it's over, we're over !!!!" and he said "Only if you want it to be !!!"....

I was confused.... :scratchhead:

He said "You know what I think about marriage....it's just a piece of paper....it doesn't mean anything..."

Then he said "I love you !!!!!!" 

He pretty much went on to say that he went the way he did (divorce) because he's tried so hard over the years to wake me up, to become the person he knew I had in me...successful, beautiful, strong...and I just ignored it....

He said that even though we're divorced on paper he still loves me and he wants to make it work between us....

He is still hesitant though because I've only just started to make changes the last couple of months and he is worried I will go back to my old ways (give up on things, get lazy etc).....I totally understand that...

So all in all....we're officially divorced, but he is definitely trying to reconcile....

The ball now is pretty much in my court and I'm planning on playing a bad a** game !!!!!!!! :smthumbup:

I love this man more than anyone else and I will take this second chance I got....

I still freak out a little (inside) when he appears to be in a weird mood...like today when he was just tired because the baby kept interrupting his sleep....but I'm sure it will be better with time....

I probably forgot to mention a whole lot, so if you want to know something....ask...

I'm sad, we're actually divorced, but I'm glad I still got a second chance with him....if that makes sense....


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## Big Bear (Feb 11, 2010)

Thank you for the update rome. This would certainly be an unconventional solution. In fact, until tonight I pretty much assumed that it was impossible to finalize a divorce in one breath, and then talk about working it out in the next. At least not without catching a 44 mag. to the noodle. Just realize you have given an entirely stacked deck to a man who, based on your prior post, doesn't sound like he has your best interest at heart so that means you have to!


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## rome2012 (Sep 10, 2010)

Big Bear said:


> Thank you for the update rome. This would certainly be an unconventional solution. In fact, until tonight I pretty much assumed that it was impossible to finalize a divorce in one breath, and then talk about working it out in the next. At least not without catching a 44 mag. to the noodle. Just realize you have given an entirely stacked deck to a man who, based on your prior post, doesn't sound like he has your best interest at heart so that means you have to!


I know it doesn't sound like he's a good guy at all...and I still have a little doubt in me if he's honest about wanting to work it out....

And I guess that's good, just in case he is playing a game...

But knowing him for as long as I have I want to give him the benefit of the doubt.....

Either way....I keep on making changes......for my future life....

If we don't fully reconcile I will be on a good path into the future and I will be able to take care of myself.....

I will make sure though that he will want to be with me again .....if not....his own loss !!!!! :smthumbup:


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## Big Bear (Feb 11, 2010)

To thine own self be true! Just keep on being the change you want to see.


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## MsLonely (Sep 23, 2010)

Wrong guess:

So he actually wanted to show you the finalization of the divorce on your birthday. 

He's not gonna show you any torn up papers.

Right guess:
He wants to reconcile & he still loves you.
-----------------------------------------------
So now it's all depending on you. Now you call the shot.

You can improve yourself, as you said, to be a better person and continue to love him. (Get married with same person again in the future.)

You can also seek your own success, to be an independent woman. (free & available)


My opinion:
He would give you his full support for you to achieve your sucess.

Use it!


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

As you are divorced make sure you protect yourself financially, do not assume because he is being nice to you he is being truthful. If he was serious about his relationship with you he would not have submitted the divorce papers. It reads like he wants the freedom of a single man and the fun of having you on the side. The pressure is on you to conform to what he wants. Although you may love him I suggest you look after you and move on with life, you may not want to hear this but be mercenary have a good lawyer check your rights out and look after you. What happens if you find out he is having sex with another woman, his answer to you is we are not married. He wanted a divorce take away his friends with benefits unless he commits to a new marriage within the next few months.

Your posts read like your husband is letting you down gently, he played his final move you move on make yourself a woman that is desired by many and he can be one of the men on the queue, do not stay together. He has taken steps with an end goal in mind and you are not part of that end goal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MsLonely (Sep 23, 2010)

Eli-Zor said:


> As you are divorced make sure you protect yourself financially, do not assume because he is being nice to you he is being truthful. If he was serious about his relationship with you he would not have submitted the divorce papers. It reads like he wants the freedom of a single man and the fun of having you on the side. The pressure is on you to conform to what he wants. Although you may love him I suggest you look after you and move on with life, you may not want to hear this but be mercenary have a good lawyer check your rights out and look after you. What happens if you find out he is having sex with another woman, his answer to you is we are not married. He wanted a divorce take away his friends with benefits unless he commits to a new marriage within the next few months.
> 
> Your posts read like your husband is letting you down gently, he played his final move you move on make yourself a woman that is desired by many and he can be one of the men on the queue, do not stay together. He has taken steps with an end goal in mind and you are not part of that end goal.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Did you follow her stories?
They still live together, eat and sleep together, just like husband and wife even they're divorced.
Her husband finds her hard to trust because he gave her money to pay bills & mortgage, but she didn't and the debts piled up, together with other issues in their marriage if I'm not wrong.
The husband is a responsible man.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

He is so responsible he divorced her !! and yes I have read all her posts. Perhaps he loves her however as a single woman she has to consider her future without him. Who knows what is on his mind, do you? Protecting herself going forward is a must regardless of the outcome of their future relationship, she must not be naive to think he is going to stand by her for he remainder of her life, all I say is she best be prepared and part of that is to accept she is single and move on with her life, if her now ex husband is there for her so be it if not then she should be ready.

My original post is directed to Rome, like your post mine is a view that may be considered.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jessi (Feb 11, 2009)

Hi there, 

You seem to have a odd situation but I'm all for recovering marriage. 
If you have financial things in place to protect yourself I would leave that the way it is........you can always change that when and if you feel safe in the relationship.
I think if you are serious about working this out you had better change the things your husband felt so strongly about, if you don't you will be in the same boat down the road somewhere.
I think the two of you need to get a list together of your needs and go over them together to make sure both of you are happy....
you make an agreement together about anything important, you conduct yourself in an honest, trustworthy way. 
You both communicate your words and needs so nothing is left to guess at.
and then you just love and cherish each other and thank god every day you have been given a 2nd chance, don't blow it this time.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

I agree with Jessi , and in the process of change I do think you should talk about what things you might need from him that you weren't/aren't getting. This is the time for you guys to lay it all out there and get the ball rolling. Best of luck with it all!


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

I agree with Eli-Zor. This is just a way to get away from you 'gently'...

This is not good news, even in the strangest twist of definitions or any other rationalizations. Now he can cheat on you any time he wants ... "Hey, we're not married....I can do anything I want now..."

And, it looks like one of the biggest control maneuvers I've seen in a while - he just got you to keep on giving to him, and giving, and giving - and he is not going to change at all. Pretty much guaranteed. He's turned this entire thing over onto you, it's all you, you caused all the trouble, and you fall for it.

Just my opinion, over and out....


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## MrDude (Jun 21, 2010)

When I read your post the first thing that came to mind was "he is playing her." From what you said he places all the blame on you and takes none for himself, and you took it all. If I were you I would reexamine what is going on.

Granted I have not read any of your other posts, but protect yourself every way you need to.


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## MsLonely (Sep 23, 2010)

Guys ask yourself. If you have given your wife money to pay for bills and you have trusted her but things turned out bills haven't been paid and debts piled up! She's been lying to you, by the time you found out, it's too late.
The husband is a responsible guy here in my views. He might use divorce as a mean to wake her up but he has never left her and kids alone for one day.
If he's that irresponsible, playboy asshoxx as you described. Why he's still there to support her? They're divorced, isn't it much easier for him to kick away his wife and go fk someone else? Why would you want a lying wife who only created more debts?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

MsLonely said:


> Guys ask yourself. If you have given your wife money to pay for bills and you have trusted her but things turned out bills haven't been paid and debts piled up! She's been lying to you, by the time you found out, it's too late.
> The husband is a responsible guy here in my views. He might use divorce as a mean to wake her up but he has never left her and kids alone for one day.
> If he's that irresponsible, playboy asshoxx as you described. Why he's still there to support her? They're divorced, isn't it much easier for him to kick away his wife and go fk someone else? Why would you want a lying wife who only created more debts?


MsLonely~
I think you may be mixing up two different stories. Here is what happened with Rome (according to some of her first posts): 



> We talked a lot and it turns out he has several issues with me that made him fall out of love with me.
> 
> 
> He's asked me all through our relationship to go back to school and get a higher degree to get a better paying job. But I never did. I did a lot of research on it, but I never did go through with it.
> ...


There is another poster on this site who didn't pay her mortgage for 10 months even though she told her husband that she did--and just to be clear, that is not Rome. 

Rome's husband has not been "a responsible guy." What he did is start an affair with someone, and as disloyals do, he began to find things wrong with her to make excuses for his affair. Are those real issues? Yes. Did Rome take responsibility for the issues she did indeed have? Yes. Did she make the effort to change? Yes. Does HE need to change in order to meet HER needs too? *Yes! * Has he? *NO!!!*! Should he have honored his vows and not turned to someone outside the marriage? Yes. Being a human being, when he did turn to someone else should he have stopped himself? Yes. When she confronted him about the affair, should he have taken personal responsibility for committing adultery? Yes. *Did he? NO!!!!!* Knowing that he was blaming her for his own adultery, did he stop the divorce? *NO!!!!!*

Now here's the position she is in. Any time he feels like it, he can go out with other women, date, or have sex physically or on the phone or online ... and all he has to say is "Well we're DIVORCED!" And meanwhile she's there as his backup plan...his safety net. She'll be his live-in babysitter and maid and chef for free, paying her with crumbs of his love just enough to string her along. 

No. That just is *NOT* responsible.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Rome,

No matter what is going on in this man's mind, I think this is what you have to do in the future. 

Get your confidence back, become a charming lady!

Live an organized life, forget that he is around. 

I know that it is difficult for you to do since you are still attached to him so much. But if you want his respect, you have to respect yourself first, begging him and expecting him to give what you want is like chasing wind. Stop chasing wind. 

When you are a confident, happy, and peaceful lady, men will run after you, believe me, a lot of men will run after you. 

On that day, you will be happy that all this torture is over and you will thank this man for helping you achieve this. 

He might be your curse, he might be your bless. Depends on you!


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## Big Bear (Feb 11, 2010)

MsLonely said:


> > Guys ask yourself. If you have given your wife money to pay for bills and you have trusted her but things turned out bills haven't been paid and debts piled up! She's been lying to you, by the time you found out, it's too late
> 
> 
> .
> ...


Yep, I've been in this exact scenario. Word for word exept for the "too late" part. Financial issues are trickey because they can be the absolute cause of the problem, or the symptom of countless others.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Only problem is that I'll state again...this is not Rome. Rome and Mr. Rome had separate accounts. She did make some personal debt and she paid her personal debt. Mr. Rome paid the household bills. No bills were ever "unpaid" nor was the mortgage ever "unpaid."

Thus I say again that portraiting Mr. Rome as "responsible" paints an inaccurate picture. This is not like she went off half-****ed and ruined the family finances while he patiently honored his wife and his family by working--and then wondered why he wanted a divorce. He had an AFFAIR! He didn't tell her he was emotionally entangled with another woman. He justified his adultery by blaming her (the house, the debt, not going back to college). He filed for divorce so he could continue his adultery. And now the divorce is final and he stays because as long as he gives her some crumbs of love, he gets free sex (when he can't get it from someone else), he gets free maid-service and babysitting (both expensive to a single father), he gets free home-cooked meals, and he doesn't have to follow the divorce decree (which probably meant either SHE got to the home or they would have to sell it and share the proceeds--he wants all the assets and control).


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## MsLonely (Sep 23, 2010)

I'm confused. 
So she has debts but not the mortgage debts, just her own debts but husband's paying most of the things and having an EA..so where the adultery came from?
Anyway, I think Rome family is at peace, love and joy now. I would support her being with the man she truely loves and make things work together.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> husband's paying most of the things and having an EA..so where the adultery came from?


You ask 'where the adultery came from' in the same sentence as you point out an EA? Isn't that like asking "We just ate at MacDonalds" - where does the meal come from?



> Anyway, I think Rome family is at peace, love and joy now. I would support her being with the man she truely loves and make things work together.


How do you know this? It's only been about 3 days since their marriage was dissolved: how does this equate to 'at peace, love and joy'? Seems to me this can only be claimed after a period of time, doesn't it? 

As for the 'true love' comment - it's been rather obvious throughout all of her many threads that she experiences emotional attachments to this guy - and also that she has been working on loving him (i.e., changing some of the things she knows hurts him, etc.) But this is exactly the issue that I find so disturbing about this relationship. 

To me it is more of an 'abuser/victim' relationship than a healthy one. I can't make that claim with absolute certainty - there are not nearly enough facts. But here's what I see: a man who will do whatever he wants, when he wants it, and will use whatever means he can to accomplish what he wants. The entire story begins with her finding out that he is filing for divorce. He tells her the reason he is divorcing her is that she doesn't clean house well enough, that she 'sponges' off of him (he pays too many bills) and that she 'got them into debt once'. And she accepts these claims and gets to work on them....

But then she finds out that he is cheating on her. EA = adultery. And he tells her this is her fault (which she accepts). He has, in essence made the affair and all of his actions her fault - _and from the data we have, has never once accepted any responsibility for his own actions_.

Instead, he gets the divorce finalized (claiming 'its just paper') and decides not to tell her until after her birthday (that way there's a much better chance of getting laid a few times first). 

And then he claims the continuance of the relationship is 'up to her' - well so it is. But now that he is no longer married, and is still carrying on an EA - guess what. He can say _those exact same words_ to any woman he meets. And carry on with them. And his ex wife will be waiting at home 'just in case he wants her' - because 'she truly loves him'. There are a lot of men who LOVE that idea! (I've got a woman in every port!)

Just a piece of paper. What a crock. That mortgage is 'just a piece of paper' too. So is the contract for that new car. 

So he holds a divorce over her head, she responds - but not 'enough' (he still wants that other woman too). But then he claims "Oh I'll still be around!" (it's just that I am no longer committed to you...) 

And she bends over and cries 'Thank you sir, may I have another one!'

And this, you claim, is wonderful news! Hey - at least he didn't beat her up last night! She must have done something right! After all, she deserves this treatment - she is such a 'bad girl!'


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Tanelornpete

I think this is a weak part of some women, they are not decisive, they are not strong! They can't cut off things right away. They are wishy/washy! 

People don't respect us if we are weak, people take advantage of us when we are not decisive. 

When we can cut off things right away, we move on faster, we hurt us less.


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## MsLonely (Sep 23, 2010)

EA = Adultery?

There must be a proven sex act to be called adultery.
You can put ppl who have PA in jail but you must caught the sex act red handed together with the police when they're both naked in Taiwan. EA is adultery only in you and your wife's opinion. 
In any law suits, adultery must have sex act.


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## rome2012 (Sep 10, 2010)

I wanted to respond to all of you, although I don't have the time to individually post....

My ex-husband and I had 2 more talks after Saturday and one was actually quite interesting....

The EA was not an EA.....

The woman was a former friend of his (they had sex a couple of times when he was a teenager) and they weren't in contact until he got his FB account...she found him and contacted him....

Anyway.....he finally showed me the texts he had with her and there weren't that many after all (and no....he didn't delete any because he knew I couldn't get into his phone anyway)....

He confided to her about our marriage issues and she gave him advice  not the advice I was hoping for.....anyway....one message, shortly before I signed and gave him the papers, contained those half nude pics and "Maybe that'll cheer you up a bit".....

Very classy woman !!!!!....but this is as far as this "EA" went ....

Also.....I've been handling the bills when he was in Iraq for 14 1/2 months and have to admit screwed it up quite a bit....so I didn't just get into debt myself (and that not little  ) but I also endangered his credit history.....

I was ashamed of me not being good with finances and getting deeper and deeper into the sh** so I hid my debt from him until it was quite big.....

Anyway....he told me too that he thinks it's better not to have sex because obviously it's giving me false hopes....

He does not have much of an opportunity to go out partying and f***ing other women as he is always taking care of our sons if he's not working....

For many men it is true that they are scum sucking pigs, but my ex-husband is not one of them......

Yes, it was not right to string me along those past 5 months, but it's over with....

One thing I took out of those last couple of talks is that I can't count on him "falling back in love" with me again.....

I am concentrating on myself now (and the kids, but that's a given)....I'm trying to do good in college, then get an awesome job with at least twice the money I'm making now....I've already lost about 20 some lbs and am going for more to look hot again by October (dad's 70th birthday party) and I'm already doing things I really enjoy (movies, swimming, library).....

I'm getting along well with him and who knows, maybe after weeks or months or even years, he will realize he does want me......and maybe I will still want him.....or maybe not....

I love him, but I won't wait forever.....


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> EA = Adultery?


You are quite correct: "adultery" is quite often defined as actual physical act of sex. My particular focus was on the AFFAIR (infidelity) and not some physical act. The idea is that the AFFAIR damages the relationship (regardless of whether it is physical or not). 

In other words: EA=Cheating on the person to whom you promised fidelity. 

Moreover, this assumes that this man has never slept with another woman. There is no evidence that he has not. It is a fact that is not known. 



> There must be a proven sex act to be called adultery.
> You can put ppl who have PA in jail but you must caught the sex act red handed together with the police when they're both naked in Taiwan. EA is adultery only in you and your wife's opinion.


That is quite wrong! It is not only in mine and my wife's opinion. There are many, many people who would disagree with you. In fact, Christ himself said:

"...But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. ..."

That in itself shows that 'only' my wife and I have this idea is an untruth, since Christ is a separate person, and this means that at least there are three people who would make this claim (hence negating the term 'only' in your sentence!)



> In any law suits, adultery must have sex act.


This is sort of true (but not completely - there are places where this simply is not the case), but I would point our that just because a State only recognizes one form of an action _in no way_ means that entities definition is either correct, or logical! It just means that _this_ particular action is one that men with guns and costumes decide they will try to control. 

So the issue remains: this man cheated on his wife, and then made the responsibility for his actions HERS. He was NOT loyal to his wife. And then he divorced her in order to keep up the activity. The one thing that _can_ be said now is that the affair is over! It ended with the divorce, regardless of whether he is active in it or not! So, if you want to keep up with a cheating partner, follow this example, and divorce your spouse - hey presto, no more affair. And no more adultery, eh?


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

By the way, Rome - good job! Right on target - you will do well (=


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Rome~

It sounds like your head is in a pretty good place. You're being realistic and taking personal responsibility so that's cool. I think it's cool that you're working on yourself and doing a little better, so that's good! I would have to say I'm proud of ya, and it sounds a little more positive than it sounded like at first. 

Good for you!


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## MsLonely (Sep 23, 2010)

To Tane:

I already knew you wanna quote me Bible as your next response.

Many people enjoy quoting Bible, picking up an individual line to give people judgements as if they're God and Christ themselves..

I don't want to talk about Bible, because it's already proven that those manuscripts contain thousands of false translations. Bible only contains parts of the truth, but not the whole truth.

Bible would be a religion topic in another session, which has nothing to do with Rome's marriage issue.

Rome did feel hurt when she knew about her husband's EA but the husband isn't a cheater who committed adultery nor a irresponsible man as you guys described.

To Rome:

Things are very clear and you have got your answers.

You asked me how to make your husband fall back in love with you. Well, I think he never falls out of love with you.

Marriage certificate is a piece of paper. When your relationship grows stronger, and all issues are resoved, you can always get that piece of paper back with him.

He never left you for one day. He's always at work or at home taking care of the kid.

Therefore, the ball is really in your court now, it depends on how you want to call the shot. 

You're free, single & available to make your choice as well.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

rome2012 said:


> I am concentrating on myself now (and the kids, but that's a given)....I'm trying to do good in college, then get an awesome job with at least twice the money I'm making now....I've already lost about 20 some lbs and am going for more to look hot again by October (dad's 70th birthday party) and I'm already doing things I really enjoy (movies, swimming, library).....
> 
> I'm getting along well with him and who knows, maybe after weeks or months or even years, he will realize he does want me......and maybe I will still want him.....or maybe not....
> 
> I love him, but I won't wait forever.....


Rome,

No matter how screwed we had been, it is over. As long as we realize our mistakes and we don't make the same mistakes again, we are fine. We learn from our past, so in the future, we are better people. 

Men like women who are organized, who knows how to manage money well, if you don't, they don't trust you, you will only ruin your life by not being responsible. From now on, I am sure you will do a much better job! 

Yes, focus on ourselves, lose weight, so we become slim and sexy, when we are sexy, we are more confident. No matter how people argue it is OK for us to be the way we are, but if we are sexy, we are more confident. Take care of our skin, it is one other key to be pretty. Our appearance if our resume, men are first attracted by our appearance, our positive and confident personality helps us keep our men. 

When you are confident, happy, and peaceful, other men will pursue you, your ex will pursue you, you will have a lot of choices. At that time, you will laugh.......................

View this a wake up call in your life, you are young, there are still many years ahead of you, plan for those years, make sure the coming years are happy and beautiful!


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> I already knew you wanna quote me Bible as your next response...
> 
> I don't want to talk about Bible, because it's already proven that those manuscripts contain thousands of false translations. Bible only contains parts of the truth, but not the whole truth....
> 
> Bible would be a religion topic in another session, which has nothing to do with Rome's marriage issue.


Dear Mrs Lonely...

I can understand your hatred of the Bible - many people hate it - it contradicts a lot of their opinions about life. But I do wish you would actually consider what I was saying rather than leaping by enormous jumps to conclusions that were never offered.



> Many people enjoy quoting Bible, picking up an individual line to give people judgements as if they're God and Christ themselves..


I am not here to argue the Bible, nor was my quoting a sentence from the Bible in _any_ measure a theological argument. I made absolutely _no_ value judgment about anything, nor did I declare that statement to be the truth (even if I believed it was) If you had actually read what I wrote, you would see that it was a direct, dry quote, with no moral invectives, no directives, no comparatives, no advice..._at all_. Seems to me you saw the word 'Jesus' and went into a non-thinking mode, replacing careful thought with irrationality, and assumptions that can't _possibly_ be found in what I wrote.

_The argument was purely a logical one_. I used a familiar sentence from an historical figure to illustrate a false claim you made. 

You wrote that _ONLY_ my wife and I held the idea that ALL forms of marital cheating can be constituted as adultery. All that was needed to show how false that statement was is to find _one other person_ who also holds the same idea, thereby showing that we are not the _ONLY_ ones to hold such an idea. And I chose the person I did _specifically_ because there are a great many people who do agree with him, thus showing that not only are there 'three' people who hold the idea that you claim my wife and I possess sole custody, but literally thousands of people, thereby showing that your sentence was even farther off base that originally assumed. 

In no way was I arguing that Jesus was 'right' or 'wrong' nor was I arguing that the Bible is necessary, or even 'proven' (a literal impossibility) to be false (proof is a function solely of logic.)

As for manuscripts containing 'thousands of mistranslations' - that doesn't even make any sense, so its hard to understand how it relates to the idea that my wife and I are not the _only_ people who think "X, Y, and Z". To show a manuscript has any mistranslation, one must have the original with which to compare it - and that original must be certified. All of which has NOTHING to do with my claim that if Jesus said something that I also say, and that my wife also says, then my wife and I (only 2 people) cannot be the _only_ people who think such a thing (there are 3 mentioned in my post). 



> Rome did feel hurt when she knew about her husband's EA but the husband isn't a cheater who committed adultery nor a irresponsible man as you guys described.



Her husband is exactly the cheater we described. He cheated, and rather than end it and come back to his wife, he chose divorce so that he would be free to do what he wanted without any obligation to his wife. 

Anyone who cheats is irresponsible. They are choosing immoral solutions to a situation that can be solved in more moral ways. They are taking the easy road out, and this means trying to escape the responsibility of holding to their commitment and working on any issues that come up. Nitpicking on whether the affair was emotional or physical (as if one is more moral than the other) is simple sophistry. 

I am not blaming you of anything - I completely understand why you would defend his actions. But this does not exclude others from pointing out how those actions are harmful - and how she should be quite ready for anything in the near future.

Finally: 



> Marriage certificate is a piece of paper.


Nice play on words!

A marriage certificate is truly a piece of paper. NO one argues with that. That piece of paper is simply something to make government officials happy. 

But a _marriage_ is NOT a piece of paper. A marriage is a rational, purposeful commitment that you make to another person (with witnesses) that declares that you will NOT cheat, etc. It is a verbal promise. It is a promise. A promise to someone else. What kind of person breaks that promise whenever it feels convenient? 

A mortgage contract is just a piece of paper. So is a contract to buy a new car. Wonder what would happen if you decided to treat the mortgage in the same was as the marriage 'certificate'. How far would you get there?


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## MsLonely (Sep 23, 2010)

I appreciated your very clearly explaination.

I don't hate Bible. Instead, I'm from a Christ College. I studied a lot about it. I'm full of passion to Christ & I believe in God.

Bible is a book, a man made book. Everything that came from men's hands have mistakes. When they translated the scriptures from languages to languages, they made mistakes. Bible has its value because it still contains parts of the truth. Which parts? You have to pray & ask God.

I don't want to talk about Bible & religion because we should do in the religion session.

As for marriage, just to share few different views with you.

Marriage is a piece of paper. 

You can have great marriage with or without that paper. 

You can have the most nightmare-like marriage even you have that piece of paper for your entire life.

Marriage itself does contain vows, but that doesn't mean you can rely on the vows & do nothing.

You don't give love, you don't give food, you don't give sex, you don't take care of your spouse's need..., you only want to expect your spouse to be a faithful saint and all about loving and faithful, only because he/she's married and he must take that vows?

This must be a joke.

Another view:

You have a dog and you don't want to give your dog food & love and you request & expect your dog not to feel hungry and not to look for food from others.

When the dog goes to search food because of hunger, you judged the dog," Bad dog! Unfaithful!" 

Sorry but the vows were meaningless when a spouse is ignorant in the marriage, the vows are broken already. You don't need to wait for EA or PA to occur to make sure those vows are broken.

Last,

You said EA = Adultery 

What I wouldn't agree with is you & your wife magnify EA as serious as a crime as adultery, PA, when no act of sex occurs.

The obvious thing is, for those spouses who have EA, they didn't get even a fk but you said they commit adultery same because they're married and they're wrong anyway.

It's not true.

They won't agree with you no matter how much hurt they have caused.

EA is NOT adultery. 

All the rest you explained have valid points.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

I have a suggestion. This is a thread for Rome. I would suggest that if you want to address Rome that you do so here on her thread. If you'd like to address each other, I request that you start another thread for this discussion.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> Sorry but the vows were meaningless when a spouse is ignorant in the marriage, the vows are broken already. You don't need to wait for EA or PA to occur to make sure those vows are broken.


This is pretty much irrelevant: if you look through _all_ of my posts, you will never find me claiming that the only way your vows are broken is to cheat on your spouse. When you make a marriage contract with someone, the vows include a great many conditions: sex, companionship, etc., are among those - as are honesty, and fidelity. A person who does not keep a promise is breaking those vows - regardless of which condition it may be. 

In fact, I wrote this in a different thread:

"...A person who refuses to meet their spouse's needs is one who has abandoned the marriage. In this case, divorce is an acceptably moral choice (and I speak this as a very orthodox Christian). It is NOT horrible to believe that you should have a sex life with your spouse - from my viewpoint your body belongs to him, and his belongs to you, and to withhold sex is as immoral as cheating...."​
[May I emphasize the word 'refuses' above - as opposed to 'is not aware of...']

But this does NOT mean that the OTHER partner is no longer bound by _their _promise: it is THEIR promise, not some other person's. _Everyone _is _personally responsible_ for their own actions. Cheating is wrong, regardless of 'who started it'. The solution is to do what is right: end the marriage before moving on to another person. Until the marriage is over, you are bound by your promise - even if your partner breaks _their_promise. 

You offer an interesting justification for doing what would normally be considered wrong behavior:



> You have a dog and you don't want to give your dog food & love and you request & expect your dog not to feel hungry and not to look for food from others.
> 
> When the dog goes to search food because of hunger, you judged the dog," Bad dog! Unfaithful!"
> 
> Sorry but the vows were meaningless when a spouse is ignorant in the marriage, the vows are broken already. You don't need to wait for EA or PA to occur to make sure those vows are broken


Several things that are wrong with this analogy (and yes, I am aware that analogies are always imperfect.)

First, the equivocation of a dog and a human being. The distinctive trait of a human being is the idea of rationality: a human being can make moral choices. A dog cannot. It lives by habituation and instinct (no food here - I go there). Even the notion of 'loyalty' in an animal is a function of habit: it is accustomed to where it lives, and to the humans it lives with. That is why dogs are so easily trained. 

On the other hand, human beings make rational choices. They are not controlled by instinct and should not be controlled by habit (although that is certainly a common thing!) However: a human being knows right and wrong. For example, most humans know that rape is wrong. This does not stop people from raping others - but they do know it is wrong. They can choose _not_ to rape as easily as they can choose to do so. 

In the same way, a person can choose NOT to cheat. They are not driven by necessity to cheat as if they have no control over their actions!

Next: Your analogy assumes that morality is determined by perceived need. (Your theology also hinges upon this axiom.) You declare that if a person is not getting what they perceive as their need by their spouse, it then becomes morally right to pursue that need. In other words, the end justifies the need, and the need is personally perceived. 

This is a rationalization designed to remove perceptions of guilt over actions that you know may hurt another.( I do want to make clear that I do not base moral choices upon the idea that 'evil is what hurts another' - but I would point out that for most people, guilt is over how they affected another.) 

This particular rationalization can be used for ANY behavior. There is no reason to assume that it only applies to problems in a marriage. A starving man may steal food, and rationalize that since he needed food, it was right to steal it. A person who believes that only white people are worthy feels the need to have a world cleansed of all non-whites, hence genocide is moral. There is no reason why YOUR opinion of what is right or wrong should take precedence over that particularly sick individual, is there? 

If you are the judge of what is right and wrong, that must be proven, of course. How did you come across this greatness? On the other hand, if you declare that whatever a majority of people think is right - you are stuck with the problem of might making right. A majority has often been quite wrong. Slavery in colonial America? Was it right because the majority approved of it? Slaughter of Jews in Germany? Majority rule. 

My third objection to your analogy is located earlier in my post. 

Regarding the Bible and truth - I'd love to discuss that, but not here.

In the meantime, let's agree with Affaircare, and let this be Rome's thread....


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