# 1 Month after D Day -- advice ?



## John7308 (Aug 17, 2011)

So here is the short version just to give you some back story

1. Emotional Affair #1 -- 2007 -- with her boss -- I discovered it
2. Emotional Affair #2 -- with a coworker -- she told me about in July 2011
3. After much reading and gaining knowledge over the past few weeks, I believe we "carpet swept" the first EA.
4. Since finding out about EA#2, we have both been going to individual counseling and both committed to doing couples counseling (we have had 3 sessions so far).
5. Two weeks ago I gave her the "break it off with the OM or I am gone" message, and she broke it off with him. He has supposedly crawled back to his wife after walking out on her. From what I can tell, there has been no further contact. This has been helped by the fact that he went on vacation for a week and then the next week my wife was on vacation. So, they have not been to work together for two weeks. 

That should be sufficient back story...so here is my reason for posting today. After my wife cut off the other relationship and declared that she was sorry and has shown that she wants to reconcile, my initial feels were that I wanted to reconcile as well. We have been together for over 10 years and have 2 young children. For the "most" part, the marriage has been good but obviously not perfect.

I started coming back out of my shell shocked state and some feelings came back. I felt like we were starting to bond again, etc. 

The other day, however, I found myself not "feeling" that emotional bond again. Almost as if I am just ready to move on without her as my wife. 

For those of you that have been through this, is this just a normal turn of events? Is this the way the reconciliation process goes? One week things start to feel "good" and then some weeks things don't feel right?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Yes it is normal and the only "cure" is the heavy lifting your wife needs to do. Unfortionately, the sure way to heal is her leaving her job. Her work relationship will always be a trigger.

Its a big step but if she leaves it will not only be a big consequence for her affair, but a good way to start to heal.

It will never go away, its been 17 months and I still have the emotions of leaving her, maybe once a week but not enough to really keep track. Back in the day it would occure several times a day, but with my wifes heavy lifting she was able to help me heal.

Sorry man but she should either tranfer, change shifts or quit.

What are the boundries that you have set for your self?


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## John7308 (Aug 17, 2011)

the guy said:


> Yes it is normal and the only "cure" is the heavy lifting your wife needs to do. Unfortionately, the sure way to heal is her leaving her job. Her work relationship will always be a trigger.
> 
> What do you mean by "heavy lifting." I know what you mean but can you give some examples? My fear is that my wife just doesn't have the personality that it takes to be that heavy lifter. She has always been selfish to a degree and has never been quite the emotional rock that you need from a spouse sometimes. I have been able to live with those faults because we all have faults..but after these EA's, it is much harder to live with.
> 
> What are the boundries that you have set for your self? Confused by this question...do you mean boundaries I have set for her or for me?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Boundries are the walls you set to protect your feelings and protect the marriage. You can't control her so she should have her own boundries (which it sound like she doen't).

One of my boundries are being more decicive, no more wishy washy. If I don't like something I let be known, no matter how bad it may piss people off. Especially when my W wants something and I disagree with it I'll speak up about it, no matter what, it helps stop the resentment in the marriage. Screw it, she is going to hear my feeling no matter what, then she can deside if she want to respect my feeling or continue on.

The heavy lifting my wife is doing are calling often, leaving her cell out for my review, having her passwords, giving me her time card & pay stub, staying home, no more GNO, more effection & sex, and words of incouragement.


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## John7308 (Aug 17, 2011)

Yes, I have listed out the boundaries that I expect from her, but of course, it is up to her to stay within those expectations.

I appreciate the advice about setting some expectations for myself. I need to think further about that. Like you, I think I could be more decisive and blunt when it comes to what I am thinking.

I just don't see wife doing the "heavy lifting." I mean, she will give me access to her email and phone, but going out of her way to encourage me, etc...I just don't see it. Who knows though?


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## smartyblue (Jun 22, 2011)

Even if she quits her job, what's to say she won't find someone else at the new job? Why has she had TWO emotional affairs? I think you need to find that out. What is she missing in the marriage that is causing her to stray? And I'm not saying it is your fault. It IS her fault. But she is repeating a pattern. Why?


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## John7308 (Aug 17, 2011)

smartyblue said:


> Even if she quits her job, what's to say she won't find someone else at the new job? Why has she had TWO emotional affairs? I think you need to find that out. What is she missing in the marriage that is causing her to stray? And I'm not saying it is your fault. It IS her fault. But she is repeating a pattern. Why?


I hear you and I agree. I wish I had the answer, all I have are thoughs:

1. There are problems in the relationship and thus, repeated EA's have happened.

2. Regardless of the problems in the relationship, there is no excuse for going outside of the boundaries of the relationship.

3. Is she simply flawed and will this pattern continue? She has shown pretty poor decision making throughout her life. I do have fears that this crap will continue in some form.

4. Or maybe the first EA ending up being swept under the rug and the real problems never got addressed, thus leading to another EA.

I will "own up" to having accountability for having a flawed relationship (not paying enough attention, etc.) but the affair is 100% her choice, both times.

So that kind of leads to my problem I guess: Either (a) our relationship was flawed in some way or (b) she is flawed in some way or most likely (c) and combination of A and B.......and know matter what the answer is, how do *I* move past it? 

Even if I knew exactly what was wrong with our relationship and could fix it completely, I keep asking myself: *do I want to continue on in a relationship with a person that has chose to have an EA, not once but twice....not just cheating on me, but on her whole family (we have two young sons under the age of 7). What kind of a person can do this to their spouse and do I want to continue my life with that kind of person?*

Very tough situation to try and figure out. I think about this constantly.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Infidelity opens so many doors that were thought to be closed , or respected. Infidelity changes all the rules. It changes everything from how we once view our spouse, to if we not longer are in love with them. it opens questions and allows demons of the heart and soul to surface and ask what it is we really want. 

~sammy


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

You need to get to the DEEP DOWN CORE WHY---she is seeking out other men, in preferance to you-----that has to be FIXED, before anything else

If she still works with the other guy---then no matter what she says, she is still IN CONTACT, and you have problems

EA, is where she has given him heart, confided in him, thinks of him---that just doesn't stop COLD TURKEY, but it is easier to get to the out of sight, out of mind, NC if he isn't with her everyday----she sees him, whether they talk or not he is there right in front of her---so at this point you do not have NC.


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## John7308 (Aug 17, 2011)

RWB said:


> John,
> 
> I'm married to a "former" serial cheater. If anything I have learned personally and reading here for almost 2 years... There is always more to the story. You state 2 EA in marriage. A couple of questions to ponder or for you to explore?
> 
> ...


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## John7308 (Aug 17, 2011)

Something that I always seem to leave out but is probably good for anyone providing advice to know. Both times that my wife has had the EA (first was her boss, second time is a coworker), the methods have been: cell phone calls, heavy cell phone text messaging, heavy emailing, *AND* frequent 1 on 1 lunch dates. Some of these lunches were paid for by the other guy, some of them were paid for by her. She even admitted to them riding in the same car together sometimes to go to lunch like this.

The reason I bring the 1 on 1 lunches up is that when I mentioned this to a therapist before, I could tell that it took the therapist off guard. I guess the therapist imagine the EA as only being through cell phone and internet? Or does the "dating" as a I like to call it actually cross the lines of a EA in your opinion?


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## John7308 (Aug 17, 2011)

jnj express said:


> You need to get to the DEEP DOWN CORE WHY---she is seeking out other men, in preferance to you-----that has to be FIXED, before anything else In therapy sessions, she says it is all about attention and me not paying her enough attention at home. I am not sure I buy this 100% but what else do I have to go on?
> 
> If she still works with the other guy---then no matter what she says, she is still IN CONTACT, and you have problems. The work thing is going to be tricky and I am not sure how it will play out. Today will be the first day that they will actually be back in the same work area together. He was out for a week on vacation and she was out last week.
> 
> EA, is where she has given him heart, confided in him, thinks of him---that just doesn't stop COLD TURKEY, but it is easier to get to the out of sight, out of mind, NC if he isn't with her everyday----she sees him, whether they talk or not he is there right in front of her---so at this point you do not have NC. Yeah, she has been telling me that this is not a problem for her. She says she can and wants to have nothing more than a professional relationship with him at this point. She said her decision was to break off the EA and reconcile with me. But I agree with you, how does something so destructive just "Stop" ???


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## John7308 (Aug 17, 2011)

sammy3 said:


> Infidelity opens so many doors that were thought to be closed , or respected. Infidelity changes all the rules. It changes everything from *how we once view our spouse*, to if we not longer are in love with them. it opens questions and allows demons of the heart and soul to surface and ask what it is we really want.
> 
> ~sammy


The part I highlighted is a critical piece for me. I am constantly wondering "who is this person" that I have been with for the past decade?


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## ShootMePlz! (Oct 5, 2008)

Seems unusual that a man would leave his wife and tell her of his love for another woman but still not have sex!!! Usually he would want to make sure that is in the bag before leaving another bed. Just throwing that out there!!!


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

John----it needs to go like this, since AT WORK---she has had an A., with her boss, and an A. with a co-worker------

If you wanna R., she needs to leave her job---and probably figure out some different for a work situation, since she can't work with other men, w/out getting involved with them

I don't care what she says about what she WILL do, she can't be with other men

If you are gonna D. her, then keep her in her job, so you won't have to pay alimony


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## John7308 (Aug 17, 2011)

ShootMePlz! said:


> Seems unusual that a man would leave his wife and tell her of his love for another woman but still not have sex!!! Usually he would want to make sure that is in the bag before leaving another bed. Just throwing that out there!!!


I hear you on that one. That is the exact thing that I said. I mean, if it is true and it was only an EA, it only proves on strong the "FOG" is...you would give up your marriage, husband and two kids, and split up another marriage that includes two young kids? I mean I would have at least tried to get sample before I bought the whole thing...On the other hand, these emotional affairs seem to cause people to do some really STUPID things. So maybe they did go along with all this bullsh*t and not even do anything physical.


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## John7308 (Aug 17, 2011)

jnj express said:


> If you are gonna D. her, then keep her in her job, so you won't have to pay alimony


 This is one reason why I haven't pushed her to quit. I need her to have a job in the event that reconciliation does not work. I think she has started at least looking for other jobs though. The sad thing is that I only think she is doing that because she is (a) embarrassed at what she has gotten herself into at work and other people know and (b) her job is tough right now because they are short on staff. If has nothing to do with wanting to quit the job in order to show me she is serious about No Contact.


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## John7308 (Aug 17, 2011)

I would love to hear any other opinions on this if anyone is reading.

Yesterday didn't end up being much better for me. I swear, for 4-5 days, things really seemed to be moving in the right direction. I was starting to feel a bond again and was much more positive. And then, almost overnight, I started feeling such a strong resentment and unhappiness about what has went on. 

At this point, it is almost like I sit in the same room with her and I don't mind her being there..but I don't want to show her any affection and I don't particularly want her to show me any affection either. So, its not like I am outwardly lashing out and being angry. I think I am just simply emotionally cut off from her. I still have feelings but they are more like the feelings I would have for a family member or a really good friend.

Does that make sense?


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

Yep it makes sense. Someone dumps on you to that degree, you will regard her less as the woman of your dreams and more as the person who personally chose by their own hands to do this thing to you and your family.
I get the embarassed mindset as well. There should be more to it than a desire to run away from her shame. Very Telling of WHO she is.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

It seems to me that you have reached a point in your relationship with your wife where you can not trust or respect her anymore. 

How important these aspects of the marriage are to you only you will know. It does feel like you are not comfortable with the situation right now.

As for the long term, will her future EAs and behavior gnaw away at you?


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## John7308 (Aug 17, 2011)

aug said:


> It seems to me that you have reached a point in your relationship with your wife where you can not trust or respect her anymore.
> 
> How important these aspects of the marriage are to you only you will know. It does feel like you are not comfortable with the situation right now.
> 
> As for the long term, will her future EAs and behavior gnaw away at you?


Aug...by what you wrote, it seems as if you suspect their will more EAs down the road?


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

John7308 said:


> Aug...by what you wrote, it seems as if you suspect their will more EAs down the road?


I look at it this way. There is a barrier or a threshold she should not had breached. But she did. Twice. The second time is easier than the first to breach. The third time will be easier than the second.

What you may have to do is place a moat or something around the barrier, or raise the threshold. I dont know if you believe in free will/choice. And I dont know if you want to live with a marriage where you have to always keep an eye out.


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## John7308 (Aug 17, 2011)

aug said:


> I look at it this way. There is a barrier or a threshold she should not had breached. But she did. Twice.
> 
> *And I dont know if you want to live with a marriage where you have to always keep an eye out.*


That is the question I am struggling with. I wish I knew how to come to a conclusion on this. I feel I am just sitting in limbo and just don't know what to do.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

If you need the complete truth you can always get it, have her take a polygraph.

But be careful what you wish for though, because you might get more than what you bargained for. But then again it will be the entire truth and you can decide once and for all if you can move on with her or not.

You certainly don't want any trickle down truth over the next year or more. Worse yet, you don't want a bomb to be dropped on you a couple of years down the road either.

The usual answer will be when something new comes out, "Oh, I had forgotten that this happened or that happened, it must have slipped my mind."

Just go and read over others who thought their wives only had EA's, as the truth slowly leaked out, it got worse and worse. If it will put your mind at ease or make it easier for you to choose one way or another, have her take the polygraph test.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

She cheated twice, and most would look at the previous guy leaving his wife as evidence that this was more than an EA. The most telling thing is that you cannot imagine her doing the heavy lifting to repair the marriage. And ... you only found out about them when she had no other choice but to tell.

I think that the only way you will be able to really jump into the marriage is to find out what really happened in the last affair, and answer the question that your gut keeps asking - Is she still lying to you? 

Although my wife never cheated, I am a guy who is wondering why I cannot seem to recapture my passion for my wife after we agreed to reconcile. For me, it is about unanswered questions that led me to ask for divorce in the first place. If you are the same, you can't take the plunge without trust.

Two things I would recommend: (a) tell her you need to know if she was lying to you, and if she says no, then tell her that you will call the other man's wife immediately to arrange a time to talk. You might find out that the man's wife now knows everything. For me, I don't think that I would revisit old wounds for a first breach of trust, but she has shown you that she can recommit and then jump back into another affair. She needs to know that you will not roll over and just continue to accept future cheating, but that is only my opinion. If you resolve this, then (b) tell her that she must work through a therapist to identify a plan to recapture your trust. Give her a deadline. Tell her that this plan must include ways that she will foster closeness and intimacy with you, and not the other way around. It must adress her job, and how she will establish boundaries with coworkers. She has never really faced consequences for betraying your marriage vows.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Do you have all her passwords now? Has she written a No Contact letter to OM that YOU saw before it was sent? Does she willingly hand over her phone for you to check at random? How much counseling is she doing? How much time do you two spend together each week? (it should be 10-15 hours away from kid/household stuff)

As to your question, you CAN get the spark back, but she has to understand what's going on first.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

That's the problem isn't it---do you wanna be a parole officer the rest of your life---do you wanna have to keep checking on her---will you always be looking over your shoulder----what do you do if she gets flirty with other guys, what do you do if she wants GNO----

These are all things that you wouldn't do/have problem with, normally

But you are not in a normal situation

Plus you have the added misery of knowing she have her heart, the heart that is spose to belong to only you---she gave it to 2 others, and in all honesty, in the back of your mind---you really don't know if she went physical or not

She has


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

John7308 said:


> That is the question I am struggling with. I wish I knew how to come to a conclusion on this. I feel I am just sitting in limbo and just don't know what to do.


give yourself a few days to sort this question out.

in the meantime, protect yourself financially and legally.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

I'm 3.5 months out from DDay, and think you're "up and down" emotional feelings are absolutely normal. 

Personal advice is to give yourself time. You don't have to decide anything to be 'final' today, or tomorrow, or next week for that matter. Aloow yourself to experience all the motions, let them play out in your mind. But only for limited times (ie, each day for an hour or whatever works for you) - because it can eat you up and take over.

In the meantime, work at the counseling! This can be the key to understanding what you are working with... her actions are the biggest input to your emotional state moving forward. if she's really, really trying with her best effort, you've got something to work with, and decisions to make. If she's not quite cutting it, your decision's kind of made for you no matter what you might think.

I found it really valuable to form 2 plans: 1 to stay, and one to go. At any given time, I was (and am) fully prepared to up and leave. I know what will happen, what needs to occur, how it will play out if it comes to that. Meanwhile, I'm choosing to stay and attempt R even though 5 days out from DDay I was still 99% sure I'd be leaving, and at two separate points 6 - 8 weeks out I left for a couple nights.

Agreed, protect yourself financially. But what you are experiencing is very normal and expected. You _shouldn't_ be feeling with certainty either way; it's complex.


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## John7308 (Aug 17, 2011)

One of the problems have been solved. The other man turned in his notice yesterday, so I don't have to worry about them working together anymore.

The weird thing is that when she came home and told me, it didn't really matter to me. I guess that speaks to the mood I have been in over the past few days. The other relationship has gone to No Contact, we are in counseling, she says she loves me and wants our marriage to work...and yet, I don't feel moved by any of it right now. 

I think this is why in another post I had asked the question "Has too much damage been done?"


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## John7308 (Aug 17, 2011)

And she has to get over herself in this situation too. I would think that if I was the one who cheated, and she was having a sad or depressed day, I would be doing everything I could to show my support, etc.

During these past few days when I have been down, she has just asked questions like "you don't seem connected to me" "why were you happy yesterday but not today" "don't you feel happy that I ended it with the OM"

I wonder if she "gets it." I just want to say "Hey you dumb f*ck, you HAD AN AFFAIR and I found out LESS THAN 2 MONTHS ago...am I supposed to feel f*cking great right now?"


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

if it is what you feel, then say it. As nicely as you can. Because the emotion and feeling is real, but the communication isn't right now and that is the path to certain destruction. As wrong as she was, she cannot guess what you are feeling. She's not capable of it, and you cannot resent her for it but are starting to anyway. There's enough to be pissed off about; don't add this to the pile.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

John7308 said:


> And she has to get over herself in this situation too. I would think that if I was the one who cheated, and she was having a sad or depressed day, I would be doing everything I could to show my support, etc.


Unfortunately it rarely works that way. The cheater takes a long time, usually, to clear the fog and SEE what they did and hopefully become horrified by it. They are still all about themselves, and will be, for a long time.

Have you read Surviving An Affair? It will give you a lot of answers.


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