# Do I love her? Or infatuation? Do I let her go?



## aurelius (Aug 7, 2016)

I wanted a bit of help getting my head straightened out if anyone can listen and pass over some opinions.

There’s a woman I know and I want to do right by her, not mess things up or make her life worse by being selfish. She says she loves me and wants to be with me, and I want that too but my life is complicated at the moment. I could not have met her at a worse time, and being with me right now would mean taking on a lot of burdens that I feel not right about dragging her into. I don't feel myself, I don't feel strong or like I am much of a catch right now and it's hard because of that.

She’s probably the person I like most in the world. I always want to talk to her. I tell her things I don’t tell anyone else and I find myself just letting my guard down completely with her but at the same time I don't like the way I feel so vulnerable with her. 

She’s the best human being I’ve probably ever met and if everyone was like her I think the world would be a better place. She doesn’t have a bad side -she is just honest and says what she feels and always tries to do the right thing and cares about everyone and everything.

Sometimes she flies off the handle like a little tornado and she wears her emotions on her sleeve but she just has a beautiful soul all the way through. She is the funniest person I know. She makes me laugh all the time. She is kind, clever, brave, loyal and an incredible mother. She’s silly sometimes and strong inside and completely unaware of how pretty she is. It drives me crazy when I see how much everyone hits on her and she's oblivious to how beautiful she really is.

I feel like she is pretty far out of my league. Not sure I could live up to whatever reason it is she thinks she loves about me but I don't want her to regret her choices because of me. I am not as good a person as she is. I'd try and love her, but worry I'd fail at it or let her down or that she would be disappointed in some way.

I have tried to create a distance and not speak to her, but I can't ger her out of my head. Even if I don't talk to her for a month, it doesn't reduce in any way the feelings I have towards her. She makes me feel like I want to drag her off into a cave and keep the rest of the world away from her or something. She is just in my head 24/7. The idea of her with someone else makes me almost insane with jealousy.

I want her to be happy and due to my circumstances and life situation I worry that letting her go might be the best way for her to have a happy life. She says she doesn't care about the circumstances and could only ever be happy if I was with her.

I don't know if this is an infatuation I have for her, or if I love her and if I do love her - is it better to let her go if my life brings complications to hers?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

What kinds of complications?


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## aurelius (Aug 7, 2016)

Among other various things with job / family - my ex is pregnant. Nothing going on romantically with her, and it was an unplanned accident, but it's a big thing that will impact my / her life in a lot of ways.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Lots of people make stepfamilies work, and do it very well 

Does this woman know about these things? All of them? If she does, and she still wants to be with you, who are you to decide what is and isn't fair to her?


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## aurelius (Aug 7, 2016)

She knows, yes. She says she doesn't care. We both already have children, but this surprise baby feels like so much to involve her in as our existing children are nearly grown up now. This was a very unexpected development in my life.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

How does your ex feel about the pregnancy? Did it happen right before you broke up?

And what does the "far out of my league" comment mean?


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## aurelius (Aug 7, 2016)

I am quite angry with my ex about the pregnancy. It was a drunken night of reminiscing (before I met this girl) and she'd told me she was covered and she did not tell me until a few months in about it at all. Big shock and I felt trapped into it but take my responsibilities seriously. Before all the life changes I was really set I wanted to be with this girl but now I feel like so much has changed I am not a good catch or choice for her anymore.

Out of my league? She is exceptionally pretty. She is exceptionally lovely. She is exceptional in every possible way. I am not those things.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Do you have any feeling your ex get pregnant on purpose? Or was it truly an accident?

You said your other children with her are nearly 18?

I get that this new gal is in love with you. And it is certainly her choice if she wants to pursue this relationship despite your reservations.

But if I were her, I would listen to those reservations. You have them for a reason.


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## Natthewife (Jun 16, 2014)

She will always be the one that got away. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## thefam (Sep 9, 2014)

aurelius said:


> She knows, yes. *She says she doesn't care. *We both already have children, but this surprise baby feels like so much to involve her in as our existing children are nearly grown up now. This was a very unexpected development in my life.


To me that is red flag. Why doesn't she care? She may not be showing you her true self. It is good that you understand you are not a very good "catch" right now, but it also says something about her that it doesn't matter. I'm really not trying to be offensive, but if I knew her I would tell to run for the hills and don't look back.


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## aurelius (Aug 7, 2016)

Our kids are teenagers. When we met, the discussion was about us dating, having "our time", trips, vacations, retirement and a certain life. The baby is going to mean big changes, and yes, I suspect the ex was not such an "accident" as she was older and wanted a baby. I feel duped.

She says that she loves me, and so she would love the baby even if it is not hers, and that we will make it work.


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## thefam (Sep 9, 2014)

aurelius said:


> Our kids are teenagers. When we met, the discussion was about us dating, having "our time", trips, vacations, retirement and a certain life. The baby is going to mean big changes, and yes, I suspect the ex was not such an "accident" as she was older and wanted a baby. I feel duped.
> 
> She says that she loves me, and so she would love the baby even if it is not hers, and that we will make it work.


Does your ex want you back? Who initiated the divorce?


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## aurelius (Aug 7, 2016)

She is not an ex wife. She is someone I dated very briefly and had really no feelings for. I don't know if she wants me - it doesn't matter, I don't want her. She probably just wanted a child and perhaps someone with the means to provide for it for her. I was given no options and was not even told until 6 months in.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
My advice would be to take things very slowly. If she is wearing rose colored glasses, give them a chance to wear off and see if she feels the same towards you. Occasionally, in the beginning stages of romance judgement is clouded by infatuation. Allow some time for that to fade and see where she stands. I would advise that you take an active part in making sure you and she are protected by verifying that she cannot become pregnant. An unexpercted pregnancy would seriously worsen your already complicated life.

If she cares for you as she says she does she will be willing to "wait it out" and see if her feelings change. If they do or if they do not then so be it but at least you can be more assured that she is not blindly rushing in. Time is your ally in this scenario, either her feelings for you will wane or deepen. Proceed accordingly.


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## thefam (Sep 9, 2014)

aurelius said:


> She is not an ex wife. She is someone I dated very briefly and had really no feelings for. I don't know if she wants me - it doesn't matter, I don't want her. She probably just wanted a child and perhaps someone with the means to provide for it for her. I was given no options and was not even told until 6 months in.


Oh, gee that really sucks. I feel sorry for the kid. Where do your other kids come in the picture? You were married at one time?

I'm sorry to say this, but a man with children by multiple women, plus I have children of my own ... no thanks. Too complicated. At best I would ask that we revisit after your baby is born and has been here for a few months to see how things are going. But then that's not your dilemma. I still would be a bit cautious if I were you that there may be something your girlfriend is not showing you yet that could end up being problematic.


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## aurelius (Aug 7, 2016)

I have been divorced for a few years. Have dated briefly a few girls in the time since I was divorced. Never loved anyone in my life except for my ex wife, and I know / feel I could love this girl even more than that.

I agree with what you are saying. Before this I was a good catch. Great job, divorced but on good terms, kids well and nearly grown. what does this make me now? I feel like a Jerry Springer side show and not the man she wants or needs to be with.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

aurelius said:


> I am quite angry with my ex about the pregnancy. It was a drunken night of reminiscing (before I met this girl) and she'd told me she was covered and she did not tell me until a few months in about it at all. Big shock and I felt trapped into it but take my responsibilities seriously. Before all the life changes I was really set I wanted to be with this girl but now I feel like so much has changed I am not a good catch or choice for her anymore.
> 
> Out of my league? She is exceptionally pretty. She is exceptionally lovely. She is exceptional in every possible way. I am not those things.


Be cautious the pedestal on which you place her.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Do you have daughters?

If one of your daughters were in the situation this woman who is interested in you is, what would you tell her? What would you want the man to do?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> Be cautious the pedestal on which you place her.


Would you want your daughter with him, far?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

thefam said:


> I'm sorry to say this, but a man with children by multiple women, plus I have children of my own ... no thanks. Too complicated.


This.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

It really sucks to have someone else make such a decision (pregnancy) for you.

This is why the notion that "men have all the power in society" is so laughable. If the ex wanted to get an abortion, everyone would say "her body, her choice", but when she decides to keep the baby, it's "*your *body, her choice" for 18 years.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Good grief. He was not forced to have sex with her.

You play, you pay.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

thefam said:


> To me that is red flag. Why doesn't she care? She may not be showing you her true self. It is good that you understand you are not a very good "catch" right now, but it also says something about her that it doesn't matter. I'm really not trying to be offensive, but if I knew her I would tell to run for the hills and don't look back.


I'm curious. Why would you tell her to run for the hills?

Lots of people get into relationships with someone who has other children. Lot's of people do not care if their new partner has children already.


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## aurelius (Aug 7, 2016)

I hold my hands up and say I did not use a condom and had casual sex with a woman I didn't love. I will stand up for the consequences of that. I do think this woman was 40 years old, never had kids and wanted one, and I do feel like she told me she was on contraceptives and she lied and I do feel like she did not tell me about this until the majority of the pregnancy was already underway and all fo that makes me feel angry and manipulated.

If this was my daughter I would want her to have the best life, and I feel the same about this woman too. I want her to have the best life, and if leaving her is the best thing for her, that is the choice I will make.

It makes it harder that she is upset by me saying this and thinks it means I don't love her enough.

Her husband died a few years ago, she says I am the only person she has loved since and that a baby is not the end of the world. She says she would make a new little family that included the unexpected surprise and that there are gifts and wonderful things from babies and that she thinks I am throwing away both mine and her happiness. She does not understand I am trying to protect her from it all. 

I want the best for her.


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## aurelius (Aug 7, 2016)

Psychologically I feel different. It is hard to explain without sounding like I am feeling sorry for myself, but when I met her I felt like I could offer her the world. I felt like a real man, a real good catch for her, and I was confident and wanted to give her the world.

As time went on and she was around through the last months and I watched her around people and in her life, and talked over what she went through with her husband passing away and every part of who she is and how she lives I just could not think of a person I respected and liked more than her. 

Now I look at her and still want to give her the world but feel like I cannot give that to her. I don't feel like that great guy at the moment, I feel sort of like a loser who got into this messy situation and there is so much about it that makes me feel so much less strong, less capable, less in control, less established as a man.

I feel kind of ashamed, lost, confused and I don't want her to see me this way either.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

aurelius said:


> Our kids are teenagers. When we met, the discussion was about us dating, having "our time", trips, vacations, retirement and a certain life. The baby is going to mean big changes, and yes, I suspect the ex was not such an "accident" as she was older and wanted a baby. I feel duped.


What percentage of the time do you have your older children?

What percentage of the time do you think that you will have the new baby with you? Clearly it’s not going to be 100% of the time.

You will still be able to have our time", trips, vacations, retirement and a certain life. Sure, there will be some times when the baby will be with you. But you should have plenty of time to spend together.


aurelius said:


> She says that she loves me, and so she would love the baby even if it is not hers, and that we will make it work.


For this woman, a baby might actually be something that she looks forward to. For some people, having a baby and/or young child around as they get older is wonderful. She might be like that.

Why are you trying to decide what is best for her? She told you that she’s ok with the new baby. So why are you second guessing her? Do you think that she’s not capable of making her own decision in her own life? 

Talk to her. Make sure she understands that you just feel like you’ve been hit by a mac truck due to the new baby, that you need time to adjust your life to it. Talk to her about dating for another year before you two make any permanent plans.

And you might want to get into some counseling to work through this funk you are in. The funk is little more than you beating yourself up. Get over it and start looking at the good you have in your life. For crying out loud, you have a woman who loves you. And yes you have a wonderful new baby on the way. Embrace life.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Does the mother want you in the baby's life? Do you want to be in the child's life?

If you are feeling manipulated, you could offer to forego any claim to the child. I don't think you would have to pay child support that way, though I am not sure.

Definitely agree you can take it slow with the girlfriend. No reason to rush. And the counseling is an excellent idea.


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## btterflykisses (Apr 29, 2016)

YOU WERE OBVIOUSLY NOT COVERED. Now you have hurt yourself as well as are bringing a new child into the world.

I don't know what you want a medal? You have another 18 years with your ex enjoy it. Leave this lovely woman who is too good to be with you alone and face up to your responsibilities.


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## aurelius (Aug 7, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> What percentage of the time do you have your older children?
> 
> What percentage of the time do you think that you will have the new baby with you? Clearly it’s not going to be 100% of the time.
> 
> ...


you sound a lot like her


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## aurelius (Aug 7, 2016)

jld said:


> Does the mother want you in the baby's life? Do you want to be in the child's life?
> 
> If you are feeling manipulated, you could offer to forego any claim to the child. I don't think you would have to pay child support that way, though I am not sure.
> 
> Definitely agree you can take it slow with the girlfriend. No reason to rush. And the counseling is an excellent idea.


I'd never want to avoid time / money with / for my baby - it's just that I was not prepared for this. I am mid forties, this part of my life was over. I had a plan


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

aurelius said:


> I'd never want to avoid time / money with / for my baby - it's just that I was not prepared for this. I am mid forties, this part of my life was over. I had a plan


I just don't think you should feel trapped, kwim?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

aurelius said:


> I'd never want to avoid time / money with / for my baby - it's just that I was not prepared for this. I am mid forties, this part of my life was over. I had a plan


Life is what happens while we are making plans for the future. So embrace the life you have.

You say that you would never want to avoid time/money for your baby. But look at the attitude that you will be presenting him. Honestly, if what you have been writing on this thread is the way you feel about this baby, then he/she is better off not knowing you. How do you think that you negative/victim outlook is going to make this child feel about himself? I'm not trying to beat you up here. I'm trying to shake you out of this attitude you have... the attitude that this baby is ruining your life. He/she is ruining your life to the point that you are depressed, that you have to give up the love of your life, etc. That's a lot of negative tripe to put on a child. No child needs that. What the baby needs from you is a lot more than time and money. You really need to get rid of the attitude.

I adopted a baby the year I was 40. He's 27 now. Having him in my life is one of the best things I've ever done. Your age is not a problem. I'm 67 now. Believe me, mid 40's is not all that old. You probably have another 40 years or so left. 

Embrace life.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Stop making excuses.....you're not a victim.

You could've worn a condom or gotten snipped if you were done with kids.

You don't even know that she lied..birth control does fail.

But maybe she did.....I tell my teenage boys that women lie about these things so they should use their own protection. 

It's a basic life truth that you don't to have sex with no risk. Babies are always a possibility. 

Make plans to be the best dad possible. 

Next time don't screw a woman you don't love unprotected.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

jld said:


> Does the mother want you in the baby's life? Do you want to be in the child's life?
> 
> If you are feeling manipulated, *you could offer to forego any claim to the child. I don't think you would have to pay child support that way, though I am not sure.*
> 
> Definitely agree you can take it slow with the girlfriend. No reason to rush. And the counseling is an excellent idea.



He would still have to pay child support. Pretty much the only way to avoid that is the mother not asking for it or death. If he dies the mother can collect Social Security under his account.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

kristin2349 said:


> He would still have to pay child support. Pretty much the only way to avoid that is the mother not asking for it or death. If he dies the mother can collect Social Security under his account.


Even if he offered for his parental rights to be terminated?

Not that he wants that. It is just a question.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

aurelius said:


> *I am quite angry* with my ex about the pregnancy. It was a drunken night of reminiscing (before I met this girl) and she'd told me she was covered and she did not tell me until a few months in about it at all. Big shock and *I felt trapped into it *but take my responsibilities seriously. Before all the life changes I was really set I wanted to be with this girl but now I feel like so much has changed *I am not a good catch or choice for her *anymore.
> 
> Out of my league? She is exceptionally pretty. She is exceptionally lovely. She is exceptional in every possible way. I am not those things.


With that attitude you are not a good catch for her. Next time were a condom. Not all BC is 100% effective all the time. If you did not want risk of pregnancy you should not have had sex, especially when drunk.

I hope this one does get away. For her sake.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

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jld said:


> Even if he offered for his parental rights to be terminated?
> 
> Not that he wants that. It is just a question.



Yes. Unless the mother of the child agreed to no child support, he is legally obligated. In some states he woud be obligated to pay for college too.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

kristin2349 said:


> ```
> 
> ```
> 
> Yes. Unless the mother of the child agreed to no child support, he is legally obligated. In some states he woud be obligated to pay for college too.


That is what I mean. He could offer to have his parental rights terminated in exchange for not paying child support.

That is what I would offer to him if I were the mother.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

jld said:


> Even if he offered for his parental rights to be terminated?
> 
> Not that he wants that. It is just a question.


I was curious too, so I goggled the topic and found this:

*Requirements for Voluntary Termination of Parental Rights*
Most state laws will require the consent of both the custodial parent and the parent whose parental rights are to be terminated. A qualified family law attorney can assist the parties in drafting a consent agreement for the termination. Once a petition is filed, the court may appoint an amicus attorney, or a “friend of the court”, to represent the child’s interest in the termination. The agreement of both parents that the termination of parental rights is in the best interest of the child will not guarantee the termination. The courts must also make a finding of “good cause” for the termination.

Before a court will grant a voluntary termination, they want to know why the parent is requesting termination. Because they want the child to have the privileges of both parents, they will terminate only if there is “good cause” to approve the request. Two common situations that often lead to requests to terminate parental rights include: (1) a parent who wishes to terminate his/her child support or financial obligation for the child; and (2) a parent who desires to have the other parent completely out of their life. *Neither ground is generally sufficient alone to constitute “good cause” and will not typically be approved. *Courts are particularly cautious in these situations because they do not want to terminate a parent’s financial obligation to support the child. Such a termination may mean that the remaining custodial parent will need public assistance to support the minor child. In essence, the court will not punish a child when parents are trying to avoid their financial or emotional responsibilities.


Read more: Voluntary Termination of Parental Rights


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

jld said:


> That is what I mean. He could offer to have his parental rights terminated in exchange for not paying child support.
> 
> That is what I would offer to him if I were the mother.



That may be what you would offer, but the choice is up to the woman. If she wants child support she can get it. He doesn't have to participate in the child's life at all, it is his choice. But a court will garnish his wages if the mother files for support or even public assitance. A man's choices as you know are pretty limited after he impregnates a woman.

End TJ, he said he is willing to pay child support.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

You said she didn't even tell you until 6 months in. How are you even sure the child is yours?? Will you be testing paternity?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Sorry.

You need to move on....leave her be. Your gut is correct on this one. She would be marrying down.....your words, too, too, too!

You are not Golden or Gilded.

Nor am I.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

kristin2349 said:


> That may be what you would offer, but the choice is up to the woman. If she wants child support she can get it. He doesn't have to participate in the child's life at all, it is his choice. But a court will garnish his wages if the mother files for support or even public assitance.* A man's choices as you know are pretty limited after he impregnates a woman.
> *
> End TJ, he said he is willing to pay child support.


The woman's choices are pretty limited too after she is impregnated.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

And the child is yours. Right? Or not right?


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
I tend to concur with another poster in that your life is being turned upside down with worry and regret. I can only assume that you are 100% certain that this baby is indeed yours. If, after this woman and you parted ways, she found herself suddenly pregnant by some ONS or less than desirable rebound encounter perhaps she panicked and, after several months of contemplation, decided that you would be a good "source" for her child. I hope you have at least considered the possibility.

If the child is positively yours then I also have concur with other posters regarding your angst over this child. Yes it is life altering but it is certainly not life ending. Your life is not being taken away, quite the contrary, new life is being handed to you. Your now GF may indeed see it this way and since you have no supernatural hold on her then why would you automatically assume her life to be ruined? She could walk away if she chose to. And, if you take things very slowly, she might do just that but, she also might not. She might be telling the truth. She might actually "love" you.

In which case you would be very fortunate to have found such a woman. So as I said before take things very slowly and allow her to get a feel for how life will be with you and she and the new baby. One important thing to contemplate however is that the child being born in three months may not scare her off but the one bemoaning his horrible fate just might. Please consider it.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

aurelius said:


> I hold my hands up and say I did not use a condom and had casual sex with a woman I didn't love. I will stand up for the consequences of that. I do think this woman was 40 years old, never had kids and wanted one, and* I do feel like she told me she was on contraceptives and she lied and I do feel like she did not tell me about this until the majority of the pregnancy was already underway and all fo that makes me feel angry and manipulated.*


Of course it would. It would infuriate anyone. This was plain manipulation. I hope you aren't considering marrying this woman for the child. Anyone who would do this could do anything. Please make sure you confirm paternity of this child. Also check for STIs.

You sound like a reasonable fellow who will support his offspring. That is admirable. 

Treat this situation like any divorced man with kids would. Divorced men date other women, but they also disclose to their dates they have children.

This woman you mention may not have any interest in a 40-something man with a baby. At that age, not too many women will want a man who has a kid to care for another 18 years. That's fine. When you are ready, you might want to consider dating other divorced women with young kids, who will understand.

Good luck.


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## aurelius (Aug 7, 2016)

I can't say for sure that the baby is mine, but being fair to the woman in question, she is someone I have known and I don't think she would flat out trap me but I do feel she manipulated because she wanted a child and was looking for someone to give that to her. None of that really matters, what is done is done and I will be a good father. I am not angry at the child, only for the life choices that were removed from me.

My girlfriend says she feels jealous that someone else is pregnant with my child but that this is going to pass and she likes the idea of having a family with me, even if it is totally unconventional and that she sees life as full of surprises and as surprises go this is definitely not the worst one. She says she loves me, that I have her heart, and that she knows what she wants and that it is me and the baby. 

She has convinced me a lot today to feel more happy about the baby, almost excited in ways and she got me to go shopping with her for some baby stuff. Maybe it is not the end of the world like you say and she made me smile a bit about it. She has that way of making me smile no matter what and I don't know how she is handling this so well.

I can't ignore the fact that so many people on here have told me to leave her alone and let her have another life without me. If she loves me, which I think she does, will she be happier if I break up with her in the long run?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Oh my gosh. Please get a paternity test!


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

blueinbr said:


> The woman's choices are pretty limited too after she is impregnated.


No they aren't.

She can:
1. Have an abortion;
2. Give the child up for adoption; or
3. Keep the child.

In none of these cases does the impregnator have any say whatsoever, and in the last case he pays child support or is thrown in debtor's prison.

Hope that helps.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

Exceptional physical appearance? (enough to say "significantly out of her league")
Been through relationship and has kids and now divorced?
Doesn't care about ex- has kids?


What's in this relationship for her??

Sounds like she's downsizing to get a baby daddy and hoping you'll buy the used goods (with stars in your eyes) with no question.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

He said she admitted to _wanting_ a baby. She basically stole his sperm for her own use without his permission. Theft and blackmail. If she really *just* wanted a baby, why tell him at all?

I think the woman should be made to sign a waiver of some kind that she won't go after him for child support. If he chooses to be involved, okay, his choice then.

This is the equivalent of the man who throws away his wife's birth control pills to get her pregnant, forcing a child on her she doesn't want. We don't allow this, so why is it okay to force a child on a man when she lied about contraception? This wasn't a mistake or an accident--she lied about it. What a horrible person. Unfortunately, it's a damned hard thing to prove.

This is why both men and women need to take their own responsibility for birth control.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

You don't need to give up your GF. This is a completely unrelated issue. So long as you are transparent about your situation, she can decide for herself what she wants. Just don't get HER pregnant too.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

tech-novelist said:


> No they aren't.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I did google this. I was surprised how little rights the father has. The laws work well for deadbeat or absent fathers but if the guy wants the kid, good luck.


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## aurelius (Aug 7, 2016)

spotthedeaddog said:


> Exceptional physical appearance? (enough to say "significantly out of her league")
> Been through relationship and has kids and now divorced?
> Doesn't care about ex- has kids?
> 
> ...


I think she has an exceptional physical appearance, but that's subjective. She's very pretty, but it's more about who she is as a person which makes her so exceptional. If I left you in a room with her for 10 minutes you'd understand what I mean.

She is not divorced, her husband passed away 4 years ago and she has one 14 year old child and owns her own business so financially She is worth more than me - and I am very, very comfortable financially.

She says she loves me, and that's what is in it for her.


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## aurelius (Aug 7, 2016)

sapientia said:


> He said she admitted to _wanting_ a baby. She basically stole his sperm for her own use without his permission. Theft and blackmail. If she really *just* wanted a baby, why tell him at all?
> 
> I think the woman should be made to sign a waiver of some kind that she won't go after him for child support. If he chooses to be involved, okay, his choice then.
> 
> ...


Deep down in myself I don't feel she intentionally planned and executed the whole operation, but I do think she was on some level wanting to get pregnant and at 44 (I think she is 44 this year) with no kids, this was very much a happy thing for her and a disaster for me in terms of the overall life plan.

This is the way of life, I had sex with her - my fault too - but I just felt side swiped by the whole thing because it was never what I wanted and I was not told until about 6 months.

I can't stress enough how much I intend to be there to both support financially and with my time to be there for the baby though. I didn't plan it or want it but that is not this baby's fault. He /she will be raised as part of my family.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

sapientia said:


> He said she admitted to _wanting_ a baby. She basically stole his sperm for her own use without his permission. Theft and blackmail. If she really *just* wanted a baby, why tell him at all?
> .



She did not STEAL anything. He very gladly GAVE her his sperm.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

aurelius said:


> Deep down in myself I don't feel she intentionally planned and executed the whole operation, but I do think she was on some level wanting to get pregnant and at 44 (I think she is 44 this year) with no kids, this was very much a happy thing for her and a disaster for me in terms of the overall life plan.
> 
> This is the way of life, I had sex with her - my fault too - but I just felt side swiped by the whole thing because it was never what I wanted and I was not told until about 6 months.
> 
> I can't stress enough how much I intend to be there to both support financially and with my time to be there for the baby though. I didn't plan it or want it but that is not this baby's fault. He /she will be raised as part of my family.


Very responsible of you.

And even if she were using birth control, there is always the possibility of failure. Pregnancy is a risk of sex.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

aurelius said:


> I can't say for sure that the baby is mine, but being fair to the woman in question, she is someone I have known and I don't think she would flat out trap me but I do feel she manipulated because she wanted a child and was looking for someone to give that to her. None of that really matters, what is done is done and I will be a good father. I am not angry at the child, only for the life choices that were removed from me.
> 
> My girlfriend says she feels jealous that someone else is pregnant with my child but that this is going to pass and she likes the idea of having a family with me, even if it is totally unconventional and that she sees life as full of surprises and as surprises go this is definitely not the worst one. She says she loves me, that I have her heart, and that she knows what she wants and that it is me and the baby.
> 
> ...


Only you and she can answer this. But the fact that you have reservations is enough to give me pause.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

You do not need to break up with her. Just do not get married yet. You just met the lady - right? you have a baby on the way with the woman with whom you had sex BEFORE you even met your current girlfriend, so how long do you even know that great lady? 5-6 months? Relax and go with the flow. Do not get married or move in together too soon. You are still in that "butterlies in the stomach" phase, way too soon for any serious decisions.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

aurelius said:


> I think she has an exceptional physical appearance, but that's subjective. She's very pretty, but it's more about who she is as a person which makes her so exceptional. If I left you in a room with her for 10 minutes you'd understand what I mean.
> 
> She is not divorced, her husband passed away 4 years ago and she has one 14 year old child and owns her own business so financially She is worth more than me - and I am very, very comfortable financially.
> 
> She says she loves me, and that's what is in it for her.


Since she seems to have her act together emotionally, personally, physically, financially, and otherwise, maybe you ought to let her make her own decisions about whether she wants to date you or not. She is the best judge of who and what she wants in her life, right? She's been doing very well making those kinds of decisions so far.

You are pre-rejecting her...finding reasons to reject her before (what you fear) she rejects you. This is behavior that shows low self-esteem and maybe emotional intimacy issues as well. People with low self-esteem and intimacy issues often tend to push partners away.

One thing I learned while dating: if a guy thinks you're too good for him, eventually he will prove himself to be right. Stop thinking that way - you give yourself permission to hurt her when you do that, as you've already done by pushing her away. The converse of that is you will only allow people who suck into your life - if you think you're not good enough for a wonderful person, you will gravitate toward non-wonderful people you can feel less insecure about.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

norajane said:


> Since she seems to have her act together emotionally, personally, physically, financially, and otherwise, maybe you ought to let her make her own decisions about whether she wants to date you or not. She is the best judge of who and what she wants in her life, right? She's been doing very well making those kinds of decisions so far.
> 
> You are pre-rejecting her...finding reasons to reject her before (what you fear) she rejects you. This is behavior that shows low self-esteem and maybe emotional intimacy issues as well. People with low self-esteem and intimacy issues often tend to push partners away.
> 
> One thing I learned while dating: *if a guy thinks you're too good for him, eventually he will prove himself to be right. *Stop thinking that way - you give yourself permission to hurt her when you do that, as you've already done by pushing her away. The converse of that is you will only allow people who suck into your life - if you think you're not good enough for a wonderful person, you will gravitate toward non-wonderful people you can feel less insecure about.


Isn't the bolded something that should be giving her pause, Nora?


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

jld said:


> Isn't the bolded something that should be giving her pause, Nora?


Yes, it should. He's self-sabotaging their relationship due to insecurity, low self-esteem and/or intimacy issues. But it's her decision to make. She obviously sees a lot more to him on the whole or she wouldn't be with him. People can have issues and still be good partners, especially if they are more self-aware and actively work to overcome their issues.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

blueinbr said:


> She did not STEAL anything. He very gladly GAVE her his sperm.


I'm not sure it works this way. I'm pretty sure there is an argument about intent to be made in these situations. Much the same as if I give blood, they better not be cloning me. Enter the lawyers.

Sorry you don't agree.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

sapientia said:


> I'm not sure it works this way. I'm pretty sure there is an argument about intent to be made in these situations. Much the same as if I give blood, they better not be cloning me. Enter the lawyers.
> 
> Sorry you don't agree.


It legally does work this way. It is not just me disagreeing. Yep, I did google birth father parent rights since I was curious and in most states -guess what - he has no rights. Once he put his sperm in her (willingly, she did not rape him), he lost all rights to its use or not use. He can try to argue in court but there are decades of precedent cases against him. I am sure many have tried to argue the "but I did not want to get her pregnant" intent defense. It does not work. 

Texas was one of the worse states for the father. No sure where OP is, put the the various state lawyers and lawmakers have already worked this out. OP lost. 

IMO the laws were written to protect the woman that gets pregnant from the dead beat or absent father. Unfortunately the same laws also favor a deceiving woman (if this is the case here) who purposely gets pregnant against the desire of the man. 

Maybe next time OP needs to stick to just oral.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

> Maybe next time OP needs to stick to just oral.


He could also make sure to use a condom, especially since pregnancy is not the only reason to use a condom during casual sex.


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## aurelius (Aug 7, 2016)

I think it's favoured towards the woman. Sorry -it is. Maybe this is necessary, as the woman carries the baby and is often left holding the baby by some deadbeat father BUT in a lot of situations, it is hard on the man.

I have said multiple times - yep - my own fault for not wearing a condom. BUT at the end of the day the procreation of a child should be a joint decision. She should have called me the first time she missed her period, and I resent being told six months later and I resent that this was not in any way my decision.

Nothing to do with money - I don't care about the money - but if a child of mine is going to be born then I would prefer that was with someone I loved, that I could be there 24 / 7 to raise and the idea of an illegitimate child was not something I would want for me, or for the child.

The last few days, with the help of my girlfriend, I have come around a heck of a lot on the idea and yeah - I know in the long run it will be a blessing. I just feel in some cases men get a rough deal on it. We all know the Mom can make it pretty tough on him if she chooses to.

I agree I have been sabotaging my relationship. I think that is down to how much I know I am going to love her, and how much I know I could not / would not ever want to lose her.


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## thefam (Sep 9, 2014)

norajane said:


> He could also make sure to use a condom, especially since pregnancy is not the only reason to use a condom during casual sex.


Condoms break. They also leak. And come off. Ask me how I know.


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## thefam (Sep 9, 2014)

aurelius said:


> I think it's favoured towards the woman. Sorry -it is. Maybe this is necessary, as the woman carries the baby and is often left holding the baby by some deadbeat father BUT in a lot of situations, it is hard on the man.
> 
> *I have said multiple times - yep - my own fault for not wearing a condom. * BUT at the end of the day the procreation of a child should be a joint decision. She should have called me the first time she missed her period, and I resent being told six months later and I resent that this was not in any way my decision.
> 
> ...


Going forward, you might want to give some thought to not sticking it in somebody you don't love, and when you're drunk. Babies have happened with every single method of birth control. Again, all it takes is one fail.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

First threads like this make me ever so glad that I got cut years ago when I became single.

You need to Have the paternity test to make sure. Something seems off with the 6 months passing before she told you she was pregnant.

Second you need to work on your confidence. Women love confidence and you have convinced yourself that she is out of your league. No such thing. She will either be interested in you or not. Put your best foot forward and give it a shot. If she isn't into you then move on and find someone who is.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

norajane said:


> Yes, it should. He's self-sabotaging their relationship due to insecurity, low self-esteem and/or intimacy issues. But it's her decision to make. She obviously sees a lot more to him on the whole or she wouldn't be with him. People can have issues and still be good partners, especially if they are more self-aware and actively work to overcome their issues.


If it were your sister, and she asked you to advise her one way or the other, what would you say?


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## aurelius (Aug 7, 2016)

If it was my sister, I'd tell her no man was ever going to love her as much as I would I guess. I might have a baby on the way and a complicated situation, but I really will love her every day as much as I possibly can. She's about the best thing that ever happened to me and I really want to try my best to make her as happy as she can be.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

sapientia said:


> He said she admitted to _wanting_ a baby. She basically stole his sperm for her own use without his permission. Theft and blackmail. If she really *just* wanted a baby, why tell him at all?
> 
> I think the woman should be made to sign a waiver of some kind that she won't go after him for child support. If he chooses to be involved, okay, his choice then.
> 
> ...


Men have no reproductive rights; women have all reproductive rights.

To even begin to approach fairness in this horror show, no man should be forced to pay child support for any child unless either:
1. He is convicted of rape leading to the pregnancy in question, or
2. He signs a contract agreeing to pay such child support in the event of the woman becoming pregnant.

And no, being married to the woman at the time of pregnancy is not sufficient to force him to pay child support if they get divorced. If she wants him to support her children, she needs to stay married to him.

I'm not holding my breath for this to happen, obviously.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

sapientia said:


> I'm not sure it works this way. I'm pretty sure there is an argument about intent to be made in these situations. Much the same as if I give blood, they better not be cloning me. Enter the lawyers.
> 
> Sorry you don't agree.


Sperm is legally treated as being in the same category as nuclear waste. That is, strict liability is imposed on the "producer" (i.e., the man) even if the "injury" (pregnancy) is deliberately induced by the "victim" (the woman). See SupportGuidelines.com | Article: It's Ten O'Clock: Do You Know Where Your Sperm Are? for an analysis of this.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

thefam said:


> Condoms break. They also leak. And come off. Ask me how I know.


They do, and you are right! But when you're having casual sex, there's no harm in trying for extra protection even if she's on hormonal birth control, and there is also the std concern.



jld said:


> If it were your sister, and she asked you to advise her one way or the other, what would you say?


I'd really need to hear her perspective before I could give her that kind of advice. Based on what I know, I'd tell her to slow it all down and take her time getting to know him better, give him time to come to terms with the pregnancy and baby, and see how both of them feel about how things are developing.

And I'd tell her if he keeps holding back and pushing her away for fear of losing her, then she should give him what he needs and let him go. If he can't be all-in, then he's not the right guy for her.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

tech-novelist said:


> Men have no reproductive rights; women have all reproductive rights.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




How about this?

Unless she gives him a signed contract forgoing child support if she becomes pregnant, then he does not have sex with her. If he wants to blow his wad into her, that is the risk he takes. She has the risk of dying through complications with pregnancy or childbirth. And yes, he has almost no rights.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

tech-novelist said:


> Sperm is legally treated as being in the same category as nuclear waste. That is, strict liability is imposed on the "producer" (i.e., the man) even if the "injury" (pregnancy) is deliberately induced by the "victim" (the woman). See SupportGuidelines.com | Article: It's Ten O'Clock: Do You Know Where Your Sperm Are? for an analysis of this.




Be careful. SAP is not impressed with non-experts goggling articles. She taught sperm at the college level.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

blueinbr said:


> How about this?
> 
> Unless she gives him a signed contract forgoing child support if she becomes pregnant, then he does not have sex with her. If he wants to blow his wad into her, that is the risk he takes. She has the risk of dying through complications with pregnancy or childbirth. And yes, he has almost no rights.


Not getting child support would not be the issue to me. His having rights to the child no matter what is what would bother me.

If she wanted a child, she should have just gone to a sperm bank. Much safer.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

aurelius said:


> I can't say for sure that the baby is mine, but being fair to the woman in question, she is someone I have known and I don't think she would flat out trap me but I do feel she manipulated because she wanted a child and was looking for someone to give that to her. None of that really matters, what is done is done and I will be a good father. I am not angry at the child, only for the life choices that were removed from me.


Birth control fails all the time. It's not 100%. There is a good chance that it simply failed.

Even though you think you are the father, you really need to insist that a DNA test be done before you agree to any children support or anything else. 

These days a DNA test on the baby can be done long before the baby is born. It's done using the mother's blood. 

Non-Invasive Prenatal Paternity Test on Maternal Blood | PRENATAL GENETICS CENTER

Why not have this done now so that you can be sure.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

thefam said:


> Condoms break. They also leak. And come off. Ask me how I know.



Is that what happened with the one on its way?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Birth control fails all the time. It's not 100%. There is a good chance that it simply failed.
> 
> Even though you think you are the father, you really need to insist that a DNA test be done before you agree to any children support or anything else.
> 
> ...


Wow. You can even find out the sex of the child.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

OP,

This might have been mentioned already but go see a lawyer to learn your rights and obligations. Or at least google the laws in your state. Each state is different.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

blueinbr said:


> How about this?
> 
> Unless she gives him a signed contract forgoing child support if she becomes pregnant, then he does not have sex with her. If he wants to blow his wad into her, that is the risk he takes. She has the risk of dying through complications with pregnancy or childbirth. And yes, he has almost no rights.


That contract would never be upheld in a court of "law", because it's the "needs of the child" that are paramount.

Nice try though.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

blueinbr said:


> Be careful. SAP is not impressed with non-experts goggling articles. She taught sperm at the college level.


LOL, you are still smarting from your takedown, hmmm?

Remember, if you can't win, at least lose like a Champion.

:laugh:


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

sapientia said:


> LOL, you are still smarting from your takedown, hmmm?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




No not really. Just a little humor with you SAP.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

blueinbr said:


> No not really. Just a little humor with you SAP.


In that case, sorry. I find it hard to read sarcasm in written posts. I require one sack of hammers to get the point sometimes. I quite like sarcastic humor in person, fwiw.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

.


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