# I'm angry. Rightfully so.



## FS8 (Jun 17, 2011)

My story started about two and a half months ago, and I was so shocked by what I heard that I posted here. The story in its entirety is here:

"I don't know if I want to be married any...

The very short summary is that love isn't blind, it makes excuses. I knew all of these things about my wife, and I made excuses for them. It's like when you go to WebMD trying to diagnose something, and there's a 0.1% chance it's terminal flesh-eating cancer but 99.9% of the time it's nothing serious. Well, everything I recognized about her turned out to be that 0.1% chance. She's a narcissist with sociopathic tendencies (a narcopath, as they are apparently called these days), and in talking with a few other people who have fallen victim to narcissists it's apparently way more common than it should be. You can't tell, because it's a con game and by the time you figure it out it's far too late.

Tomorrow she starts her lease. I've accepted that I can't change anything. She's fundamentally incapable of giving me even the most basic of needs in a relationship - honestly, loyalty, fidelity - and has no desire to try to change if she even could. She's broken. But I'm here going through storage trying to decide what she takes and what she doesn't, concerned about logistics. It's wrong. It's all bullsh*t. I should be having a normal night, maybe putzing around watching TV sipping bourbon after we put the kids to bed. But I'm not, because I fell victim to a narcissist's endless con game. Life isn't fair, but it should be more fair than this. I read on this site (and hear elsewhere) about women putting up with f*cking everything, from frequent cheating to incestuous relationships to alcoholism to everything else. Yet in my life, I make good money, I keep myself in shape, I cook, I clean, I do everything I can to maintain the family and marriage, and it means f*ck all because my wife is broken. I don't have a clue what is and was true. I have no idea whether I am mourning an illusion or actual feelings. I have no f*cking clue.

This will probably be the last day she ever spends in this house. She wanted to stay here until she "moves" formally in a few weeks, but since she wasn't going to contribute to the mortgage the answer to that was no. Why the f*ck should she be given any sort of benefit of the doubt? Why should I cut her any breaks? If I'm being honest I am practically begging karma to punch her as hard in the face as is possible without hurting my kids. I want her to be honest with whatever dirtbag men she can find and tell them she doesn't want to be loyal or faithful and just wing it, and then I want them to be the same and leave her when she falls hard. I want that to happen over and over. Because I believe in justice. I believe in right and wrong. And despite what I see in the world and have seen for my entire life, I want wrong to be punished. Big or small.

Are there good things? Sure, I can get rid of the sh*t she did around the house I never liked. I never wanted to be married to be a smoker. I won't have a third kid to take care of when she's home. But for f*ck's sake. Like I said, I know the world isn't fair, but it should be more fair than this.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

FYI, you are hurting tremendously and I’m sorry, but your wife just gave you a blessing snd you just cannot see it now. In time. You’ll almost wish you could think her for moving out and moving on. Don’t think that SHE is the best there is for you.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Yet, still you sound so angry and hurt like if you deep down would want her to change and come back to you.

Dude, as painful as ending a relationship might be, you instead of ranting all about it, should be celebrating that she's getting out of your life, and that now you'll have the opportunity to find a normal woman, rather than the lunatic you've been shackled to. 
Go out and enjoy life the way it should be.


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## FS8 (Jun 17, 2011)

Evinrude58 said:


> FYI, you are hurting tremendously and I’m sorry, but your wife just gave you a blessing snd you just cannot see it now. In time. You’ll almost wish you could think her for moving out and moving on. Don’t think that SHE is the best there is for you.





Rob_1 said:


> Yet, still you sound so angry and hurt like if you deep down would want her to change and come back to you.
> 
> Dude, as painful as ending a relationship might be, you instead of ranting all about it, should be celebrating that she's getting out of your life, and that now you'll have the opportunity to find a normal woman, rather than the lunatic you've been shackled to.
> Go out and enjoy life the way it should be.


You are both correct. It is for the best. It is for the best because she's broken, fundamentally incapable of a healthy relationship, and even if she weren't she is not (was not) even close to the best partner. I get that. She was on travel two weeks ago and on vacation with the kids last week, so I have had a lot of time to think and put things in retrospective. My life is calmer and better without her. Far more peaceful. Productive. Organized. That isn't even a question.

I guess my point (aside from simply venting) is something like this. She asked me a few weeks back if I could have all of "this" - presumably our life, without her, would I do it. I said yes, absolutely, without even a hint of hesitation. If I could have my kids and my present life but with a woman who provided only the most basic relationship building blocks - I honestly tolerate a lot and require very little - that wouldn't even be a question. She can't even provide those. I don't even know whether I can say, having the blinders removed, that she would be a net positive to my life even WITHOUT her personality. I get that I'm better off.

I guess I'm just complaining about the fact that I got stuck in this con game and have to start over again when I feel like I've paid more than enough penance in my life and done enough good to at least have deserved an "average" wife - like you said, a normal woman. But I got what I got and here I am. I am aware that whining accomplishes nothing, as I tell my kids this all the time. But I think I'm allowed to feel sorry for myself for just a little bit.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Life isn’t fair. It never is. It’s how you handle that unfairness. Let her go as fast as possible. Put all your effort’s into saving you’re. No contact will be your best friend.
Hard to see that upfront but it’s your only good path.


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## FS8 (Jun 17, 2011)

Marc878 said:


> Life isn’t fair. It never is. It’s how you handle that unfairness. Let her go as fast as possible. Put all your effort’s into saving you’re. No contact will be your best friend.
> Hard to see that upfront but it’s your only good path.


I can't go no contact. I wish I could. But I fully intend to keep it as minimal as possible - phone calls to the extent required to talk to my daughters, which I plan to do every night (or morning) they are with her, and to discuss monthly reimbursement for child care expenses. 

She has asked me for help many times in the past week, and I've turned her down almost every time. "That's not my problem," or "you did this to yourself," or something similar. She has even said that she wants to do "family" dinners after she moves out. I've said no and that I have no desire to be friends of any kind. I don't want to be paying for her dinner, inside or out, and I don't want to be cooking for her. Nothing like that. You made your bed, you sleep in it.

It would be nice if the kids were old enough to have their own phone and we didn't have as many child care costs as we do.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

FS8 said:


> I can't go no contact. I wish I could. But I fully intend to keep it as minimal as possible - phone calls to the extent required to talk to my daughters, which I plan to do every night (or morning) they are with her, and to discuss monthly reimbursement for child care expenses.
> 
> She has asked me for help many times in the past week, and I've turned her down almost every time. "That's not my problem," or "you did this to yourself," or something similar. She has even said that she wants to do "family" dinners after she moves out. I've said no and that I have no desire to be friends of any kind. I don't want to be paying for her dinner, inside or out, and I don't want to be cooking for her. Nothing like that. You made your bed, you sleep in it.
> 
> It would be nice if the kids were old enough to have their own phone and we didn't have as many child care costs as we do.


Ignore anything not child/divorce related and limit communication to text or email except for calls to the children. Pick ups/drop offs can be done quickly.
Bud they all pull the let’s be friends BS. It’s for her not you.
Definition of friend- loyal, honest and trustworthy.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

No contact as much as possible is great advice. Every time you see her or hear her voice it will do nothing but hurt you. 
We’ve been where you are. It is a super slow process and it takes a long tome for the pain to subside, but eventually she will just be a face in the crowd. You’ll be glad you didn’t waste any more time with her and take away from the right woman that you will possibly meet. You Never know.
Once this kind of stuff starts, it NEvER gets better. Remember that. And no, she’s definitely not a person you want as a friend.
Friend= person to be used , by some people.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

I went back to your previous thread. You got great advice. Ignored a lot upfront because you couldn’t believe what everyone was pointing out to you.
No contact, limited contact, etc. is totally up to you. I know 2 who run a tight no contact policy. 
They each have a 50/50 child custody agreement. They control their life and their time with their kids. *Nothing else. *
A lot can’t stop contact because they tend to want control over the situation. You can only control your life and the time you have your kids. Let the rest go or you will keep yourself entangled in this mess.
You do have a choice.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

FS8 said:


> You are both correct. It is for the best. It is for the best because she's broken, fundamentally incapable of a healthy relationship, and even if she weren't she is not (was not) even close to the best partner. I get that. She was on travel two weeks ago and on vacation with the kids last week, so I have had a lot of time to think and put things in retrospective. My life is calmer and better without her. Far more peaceful. Productive. Organized. That isn't even a question.
> 
> I guess my point (aside from simply venting) is something like this. She asked me a few weeks back if I could have all of "this" - presumably our life, without her, would I do it. I said yes, absolutely, without even a hint of hesitation. If I could have my kids and my present life but with a woman who provided only the most basic relationship building blocks - I honestly tolerate a lot and require very little - that wouldn't even be a question. She can't even provide those. I don't even know whether I can say, having the blinders removed, that she would be a net positive to my life even WITHOUT her personality. I get that I'm better off.
> 
> I guess I'm just complaining about the fact that I got stuck in this con game and have to start over again when I feel like I've paid more than enough penance in my life and done enough good to at least have deserved an "average" wife - like you said, a normal woman. But I got what I got and here I am. I am aware that whining accomplishes nothing, as I tell my kids this all the time. But I think I'm allowed to feel sorry for myself for just a little bit.


yeah it's ok to feel sorry for yourself for a minute. But soon, be VERY happy. Enjoy NOT living with her, appreciate that. If you do not dwell on what you do not have, you will rebound nicely and likely be very happy. After awhile (for me this part took a few years) you won't even care what she is doing.


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## FS8 (Jun 17, 2011)

Marc878 said:


> I went back to your previous thread. You got great advice. Ignored a lot upfront because you couldn’t believe what everyone was pointing out to you.
> No contact, limited contact, etc. is totally up to you. I know 2 who run a tight no contact policy.
> They each have a 50/50 child custody agreement. They control their life and their time with their kids. *Nothing else. *
> A lot can’t stop contact because they tend to want control over the situation. You can only control your life and the time you have your kids. Let the rest go or you will keep yourself entangled in this mess.
> You do have a choice.


This site is notorious for jumping to infidelity as the answer to everything. That's not to say it's not often the case, as it is. I suspected infidelity (even emotional) and asked several times within days. My mistake was not that I didn't believe the people here - it was that I believed her. I understand now she's a pathological liar, and why I asked so many times (and she continued to lie) - my gut feeling was telling me one thing, and she was telling me another. But in all honesty I would expect many if not most people to refuse to believe such things. Either that or they want to believe the best about their spouse.

My plan is to pick up the children on Fridays, such that I don't have to see her weekly (or even at all). My kids are 5 and 3, so I don't think I can avoid talking to her so that I can talk to them. I will have to learn how to keep that minimally short. I'm not going to miss out on the lives of my kids - after all, it's quite likely that her daddy issues are at least in part why they way she is and I will do everything in my power to make sure that my girls do not end up broken. Believe me, minimizing contact at all costs is what I intend to do.


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## FS8 (Jun 17, 2011)

uwe.blab said:


> yeah it's ok to feel sorry for yourself for a minute. But soon, be VERY happy. Enjoy NOT living with her, appreciate that. If you do not dwell on what you do not have, you will rebound nicely and likely be very happy. After awhile (for me this part took a few years) you won't even care what she is doing.


I'll do this for no other reason than it will piss her off. She used to be very much aware of her old boyfriends, following each other on social media and such. Those that didn't, she still got updates on. Many of them still carried a torch for her (obviously) and she thrived on this. Classic narcissism, which I know now. I wish I had known then. I never really thought much of it, though in hindsight I clearly should have.

I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to care. I care less today than I did yesterday. That's what I've been aiming for every day.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Did she ever admit to the physical affair(s)?


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

FS8 said:


> *This site is notorious for jumping to infidelity as the answer to everything. *That's not to say it's not often the case, as it is. I suspected infidelity (even emotional) and asked several times within days. My mistake was not that I didn't believe the people here - it was that I believed her. I understand now she's a pathological liar, and why I asked so many times (and she continued to lie) - my gut feeling was telling me one thing, and she was telling me another. But in all honesty I would expect many if not most people to refuse to believe such things. Either that or they want to believe the best about their spouse.
> 
> *It’s because most who are here awhile and have been through it see very clearly. They always follow a similar pattern. Most all cheaters lie, a lot. A friend of mine said the hardest thing for him was understanding his wife was nothing special. Just a very typical lying cheater.*
> 
> ...


Most here are just trying to help you. However, some have to learn on their own.


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## FS8 (Jun 17, 2011)

Sfort said:


> Did she ever admit to the physical affair(s)?


No. Just emotional and that she "wanted to." But she's lied directly to my face multiple times, about stupid things and about important things. When she texts me out of the blue and says things like "I'm sorry, you deserve better than me" I assume it's because of a guilty conscience. I may never know. Then again I may find out. 


Marc878 said:


> Most here are just trying to help you. However, some have to learn on their own.


You are correct, and I am no exception. I think most spouses, especially those in my situation, are in a state of cognitive dissonance where you understand the circumstances and why infidelity is obviously a likely cause while simultaneously wanting to believe that you are the exception and that your spouse isn't for some reason a typical lying cheater. I don't think it's any different than trying to warn a family member that they're making a bad decision, relationship or otherwise. They aren't likely to listen if they're at all committed. They have to learn on their own.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

FS8 said:


> No. Just emotional and that she "wanted to." But she's lied directly to my face multiple times, about stupid things and about important things. When she texts me out of the blue and says things like "I'm sorry, you deserve better than me" I assume it's because of a guilty conscience. I may never know. Then again I may find out.


Adults don’t leave a marriage over an emotional affair. You know the truth.
She’s not going to tell you. Either way it doesn’t matter.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

She will probably try and keep you around to some extent for help when she needs it.
The old saying holds true. Hurt people hurt people. Hopefully you’ll be smarter and wiser to avoid these types in the future.


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## FS8 (Jun 17, 2011)

She moved out yesterday. Mostly, anyway, as some guy who looked like Boy George and what looked like a twelve year old helped carry her stuff out. Lots of people said it would be hard, but it honestly wasn't.

The preceding two days were very difficult on my three year old, who struggled to see some of her things in boxes to go to "mommy's house" as well as lots of boxes and bins of my wife's stuff. After two days of her suddenly crying and clinging and not wanting to go to preschool (which she hasn't done in ages), I was angry. I had said for weeks that I had nothing constructive to say to my wife, who keeps looking for some signs that I'm "OK" or something like that. Wanting me to be OK, which I guess is pretty common for narcissists to say to assuage their guilt (to the extent they can feel it). But yesterday morning, I said everything I wanted to. All honest, nothing said in anger. I meant every word. I don't know that it did any good regarding my state of mind, and if I will end up feeling better because of it. Maybe. She always hated when I yelled at her and yesterday was no different. I finally called her out on all of her b*llshit to the extent I wanted to.

Interestingly enough, she brought out the D word, that I had suspected (as had others) but hadn't heard before. That's a killer as much as anything else. My first wife was just depressed (very much so), but not a narcissist. This time, it's both. All I know is that broken people need to hit rock bottom and want to fix themselves before they can get better. Both are addicts - this one to relationships, the first one to pills and booze. I'm not sure how long those wounds can be covered by addiction.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

You are moving forward. That is good. the anger you are experiencing is much more constructive than wallowing in self pity. 

Be there for your daughter. It sounds like she's having a hard time & will need her daddy.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

when she said to you "I'm sorry, you deserve better than me" you should have said that we can both agree on....


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## FS8 (Jun 17, 2011)

Lostinthought61 said:


> when she said to you "I'm sorry, you deserve better than me" you should have said that we can both agree on....


I've said that many times. She keeps calling to ask how I'm doing and if I need anything. I keep telling her that the only thing I ever needed from her was not something she was capable of giving.


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## Jimi007 (5 mo ago)

Seems like you have all your bases covered..
Time heals all wounds...it just takes time.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

FS8 said:


> I've said that many times. She keeps calling to ask how I'm doing and if I need anything. I keep telling her that the only thing I ever needed from her was not something she was capable of giving.


Unless you learn to ignore you will linger. Stop keeping yourself in this and let her go.


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## FS8 (Jun 17, 2011)

Marc878 said:


> Unless you learn to ignore you will linger. Stop keeping yourself in this and let her go.


Working on it. I didn't answer the phone today. It's hard for one because she's supposed to have the kids tomorrow, but also because of the cognitive dissonance in my mind - remembering the relationship I thought I had with the person (facade?) I thought I knew. I know that what I miss either doesn't exist any more or never did exist, but it doesn't change my longing for it. I do know, however, that in the present it is nothing more than a daydream.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Don’t respond at anytime she reaches out. If it’s an emergency with the kids - she can leave a message.

the only reason she is calling you is to get something more from you. Or to manipulate you further. So just do not answer that phone/text!

stick to the agreed visitation schedule - do not sway from the schedule. She will get used to it if you stay on track and don’t ever change it. Then there’s less to talk to her about.

so short of an emergency for the kids - she shouldn’t need to contact you. That’s going to be better for YOU in the long run.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

FS8 said:


> Working on it. I didn't answer the phone today. It's hard for one because she's supposed to have the kids tomorrow, but also because of the cognitive dissonance in my mind - remembering the relationship I thought I had with the person (facade?) I thought I knew. I know that what I miss either doesn't exist any more or never did exist, but it doesn't change my longing for it. I do know, however, that in the present it is nothing more than a daydream.


You can effectively coparent with text or email. I’ve seen it done. Most who can’t cut contact are trying to control what they have no control over. Your choice.


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## FS8 (Jun 17, 2011)

Beach123 said:


> Don’t respond at anytime she reaches out. If it’s an emergency with the kids - she can leave a message.
> 
> the only reason she is calling you is to get something more from you. Or to manipulate you further. So just do not answer that phone/text!
> 
> ...





Marc878 said:


> You can effectively coparent with text or email. I’ve seen it done. Most who can’t cut contact are trying to control what they have no control over. Your choice.


I don't want to overthink this, but there's still plenty of her stuff here (and of course she took things she wasn't supposed to, or I specifically told her not to). I agree that we can coparent via text. So I'm wondering if she deliberately left smaller things so she can have an excuse to come back or keep in contact. Or if she's just irresponsible and impulsive like usual and didn't think about it.

Half the problem now is that I don't even know what she took that she wasn't supposed to or what she left that needed to be taken. I assume if I don't miss it I don't need it. I think email is best for this - logistics only, just outlining. Don't get me wrong, I want to go minimal to no contact, but I also don't want to cause any problems before the final decree is granted. Then again maybe I'm worrying too much about that.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

FS8 said:


> I don't want to overthink this, but there's still plenty of her stuff here (and of course she took things she wasn't supposed to, or I specifically told her not to). I agree that we can coparent via text. So I'm wondering if she deliberately left smaller things so she can have an excuse to come back or keep in contact. Or if she's just irresponsible and impulsive like usual and didn't think about it.
> 
> Half the problem now is that I don't even know what she took that she wasn't supposed to or what she left that needed to be taken. I assume if I don't miss it I don't need it. I think email is best for this - logistics only, just outlining. Don't get me wrong, I want to go minimal to no contact, but I also don't want to cause any problems before the final decree is granted. Then again maybe I'm worrying too much about that.


Box her **** up and leave it on the porch. You are a victim only if you allow it.


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