# Spouse wants more sex, but doesn't seem to care about own body



## rabbit75 (Jan 7, 2013)

I'm a lucky man with a wife who adores me. I didn't realize it until I got married nearly ten years ago, but I seem to have a below average sex drive (contrary to my username), possibly due to testosterone levels on the low side (I've had my blood tested during treatment for depression, which showed it at the "low end of normal" as I recall). My wife, on the other hand, probably has an above average sex drive. I'd guess that we end up only having sex once every couple weeks (though she'd probably say it was less), while she says she'd like it every night. She can tell when I'm not really into it, and feels rejected because of it. This has probably been the case since our first year of marriage.

Several years ago, it occurred to me that I would be more physically attracted to my wife if she lost some weight, which didn't seem to happen after our last child was born. She still has a pregnant look (she occasionally gets asked if she is), which didn't bother me when she was pregnant, but now that she isn't, it turns me off, I'm ashamed to admit.

I wasn't very fit myself (I'm a nerd who's spent most of my life with a scrawny chest, flabby stomach, and no interest in anything athletic), so I bought an exercise bike, barbells, weights etc and got myself into pretty good shape, thinking it would inspire her to do the same. I lost about 20 pounds of fat just lightly pedaling an exercise bike every day while I did my programming work or watched movies. She eventually did try it for a couple months, but when she didn't keep it up, my nagging her about it turned her off it completely.

I'm probably lucky that she's still attracted to me after I was such a jerk about the exercising. But I still believe I'd be a lot more attracted to her if she got herself into shape. I don't think it's the results as much as the effort to take care of her body that would turn me on (I get a little aroused just thinking about her doing squats). But bringing this up just angers her. She thinks I'm shallow and a bit sick for wanting this from her. She claims that her level of physical attraction toward me is unaffected by how I look, and thinks I should be the same way.

But she does want me to be genuinely physically attracted to her and not just have sex with her out of obligation. She's not enthusiastic about sex in the morning (which I've offered as a possible solution) because she feels like it would just become a biological function for me because I wake up with erections. She doesn't understand why my appetite for sex is gone by lunch time but I have the energy to lift weights in the garage a few nights per week (I've since come to really enjoy it as a challenge for its own sake). The only solution she's proposed is that I think about having sex with her throughout the day, or as a last resort, that I look at porn (which does nothing for me).

As for me, I don't understand why she doesn't care more about her body. I don't think it's anything practical like physical problems or lack of time that keeps her from exercising (she watches science fiction shows for a few hours every night). It's just not important to her, and I don't know why. This seems like it ought to be a pretty easy problem to fix, but I'm starting to build up some anger of my own over it.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

rabbit75 said:


> She still has a pregnant look (she occasionally gets asked if she is), which didn't bother me when she was pregnant, but now that she isn't, it turns me off, I'm ashamed to admit.


Don't be ashamed. Your body is programmed this way. Are you ashamed to be turned off looking at a naked man? Of course not.

There is a reason why practically all cultures across the world value slim, healthy women as the most attractive. Lots of research has been done on the 0.7 waist to hips ratio. You can't just rationally decide to override that biological programming.



rabbit75 said:


> I lost about 20 pounds of fat just lightly pedaling an exercise bike every day while I did my programming work or watched movies. She eventually did try it for a couple months, but when she didn't keep it up, my nagging her about it turned her off it completely.


Good for you for getting in shape. Usually, that will motivate a wife to join in and get healthy, too. Unfortunately for you, it's probably had the opposite effect in your marriage. You've become more attractive, which makes your wife want sex with you more. And your wife has become relatively less attractive to you, which puts you off her even more.



rabbit75 said:


> She thinks I'm shallow and a bit sick for wanting this from her. She claims that her level of physical attraction toward me is unaffected by how I look, and thinks I should be the same way.


Your wife is just using her rationalization hamster to avoid taking responsibility for being obese. She figures that, if you'll just cooperate and think she's attractive as she is, then she won't have to exercise. But life doesn't work that way.

I think you have three options for addressing this. The first is to be honest. Tell her that her weight turns you off. Don't try to be sneaky and insist that you're turned on by her, but you just want her to exercise more so that she'll be healthier. Be blunt. She's too fat for you.

After that, however, you should be supportive. For example, your effort over results thing could work great. Tell her that you want to sexually try to role play with a workout. If she starts squatting and gets sex from it, she may be more willing to do squats.

The second option is to try to subconsciously coax her into your lifestyle. And you do that by making yourself a little less available to her, unless she's working out. Tell her you want to talk while you're working out. That will get her away from the TV. Do family activities that involve outdoor exercise.

Another option is to play a dread game on her. While you're upping your sex rank and becoming more attractive, she's stuck at her lowest rank because of her weight. If you were both 6s when you married, you've now lost weight and become a 7.5 and she's gained weight and become a 4.5. You are now attractive to women who are 7s or 8s. Your wife knows this and will be afraid of losing you. If she drops you off, or picks you up at the gym, you could feed into this a little by introducing her to the attractive women you will get to know. Many women will respond to that kind of threat by getting their butts in gear and trying to raise their sex ranks.

However, these approaches can backfire. Being honest can just piss her off and blow up in your face. Especially if she's got some fat girlfriends who can help her rationalize that you're just a shallow jerk for wanting her not to be obese.

And the dread game can also backfire. Instead of inspiring your wife to compete for your attention with more attractive women, she may decide that she can never be a 7, so she may as well just give up and start working on her online dating profile.

Good luck.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Don't be ashamed of this. It's one of the top 5 men's needs. Read his needs/her needs book.

There have been LOTS of threads on TAM about men having issues with their wives being overweight.

I don't have any great advice just wanted to say you have every right to feel this way.


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## 41362 (Dec 14, 2012)

There is some good advice above, but I wonder if the first option would be better received if you focused on her health. I conclude from your message that you have multiple children, so maybe you ask her to get healthy for them... That said, how old are your children?


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## IndyTMI (Oct 26, 2012)

I see this as nothing more than an issue of complacency and motivation on her part.
I'm sure there are some positive reinforcement exercises you can do to change this, just have to search for it and apply it.


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## NeverEnuff (Jan 2, 2013)

This comes up over and over again. It happened in my own marriage and I tried every strategy imaginable to address it. Dancing around it only prolongs the misery. While I acknowledge that every marriage isn't the same, I am convinced that honesty really is the best policy in matters like these. Our bodies do change as we get older and both spouses have to understand that. However, neither spouse should have to permanently live with "avoidable" changes that just aren't acceptable. Generally speaking, appearance (especially weight) matters more to a man than a woman. Sit her down and tell her how you feel no matter how much it hurts. Some things are painful to say. Some things are painful to hear. But some things need to be said.


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## Kari (Feb 17, 2012)

I suggest going on walks with her each evening. I think walking is the easiest way to get back into exercising or start exercising if you have been sedentary. Go with her, don't expect her to do it alone (she probably never will). Maybe you could sign up at a health center that has an indoor track for walks during bad weather, and if you are at a track, you can go at your own speed (you could run while she walks).

But the larger issue is that you need to address your low testosterone. There is a good chance that even if she lost weight, you still wouldn't want sex very often, and you would then start focusing on some other bad habit of hers and blaming it for your infrequent desire. 

Many Low T clinics will treat anyone with a total testosterone level of 400 ng/dl or lower. If your morning T is below that, you should consider getting treated. Also, ask your doctor to test your 'free testosterone' level if your total T level is in the 400 ng/dl range or lower. 

Some people on this board have had some success raising T with heavy weight training of the legs and gluts such as squats. Training those large leg/glut muscles raises testosterone a bit (but doesn't compare to actually getting the T shots).

If your sex drive were higher, you would want sex much more often than every couple of weeks regardless of her waistline.

Ensure you get enough protein (e.g. perhaps add protein powder to your drinks), take a multi vitamin and mineral supplement to ensure you have enough nutrients such as zinc.

The more sex you have, the more you want and your body will adapt (to some degree). You don't need to think about sex all day, but before bed a couple times per week, prepare yourself a bit (e.g. maybe in the privacy of a bathroom, touch yourself to get yourself in the mood), then initiate with her. Start doing this immediately, she deserves sex a couple times a week whether she is thin or not. I think your body will start expecting to have sex more often and soon it won't feel like a chore for you.

I emphathize with her since I'm in the same situation with an LD husband. Since you are like my H, maybe you can answer some questions that I wish I had the answer to (since my H can't verbalize an answer). Why wouldn't you want to get the T shots and have a strong sex drive again? Why is it so difficult to prepare yourself (e.g. touch yourself a bit) to get yourself in the mood to initiate sex 2 times per week? 

I think you should be the initiator, do a lot of things for her benefit, and act passionate and energetic in bed. If you are really unable or too tired, give her oral on some of the evenings or kiss her while holding a vibrator on her. My LD husband doesn't think of offering to do anything for me when he isn't in the mood, and if I initiate, I have to do almost all the work while he lies there, and it makes me sad. Not saying you should have to do something every night, but do something for her sake at least 2x week, and put some real energy into it, don't be passive.

Another suggestion is for you (until you can get testosterone treatment) to purposely not climax so as to preserve your sexual energy and have sex more often. Google 'karezza' or 'tantric sex'. Tell her why you are not always trying for an orgasm so she doesn't worry (but make sure she has hers if she wants one).

Sex only every couple weeks isn't fair to her, overweight or not, given that she has a average drive. Are you giving her lots of hugs and kisses and cuddles and flirt with her every day? Do you have date nights and make an effort to plan special things for her? From what I've read here, many LD men neglect to do those things for their wives.


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## IndyTMI (Oct 26, 2012)

My wife's counselor gave her a goal of working out at least three times a week. While she isn't much overweight, it is more for toning and just feeling better about oneself.


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## Jeapordy (Aug 12, 2012)

I'm living through a similar scenario. I have Low T in the 350 range. My wife put on a bunch of weight about 15 years ago and has addded a little every year. Our sex life was about 3x/month for most of the last 15 years. I assumed this was normal until I started reading TAM. I can get aroused, but definitely have a harder time getting aroused by her body. I need a little more spice to keep my focus. 
I was trying to be "nice" and not tell my wife that her body shape really bothered me. But that was a bad idea. One day during sex, I just couldn't get it up. I saw the fat rolls and no matter how much I wanted it to make her happy, I just couldn't. We had a long talk about her weight and the effect it was having on me. She agreed to get serious about it.
She has been trying very hard for a couple of months to lose the weight and is making slow progress. Her metabolism just won't kick into gear after 15 years of abusing it. But the fact that she is trying does get me aroused. That means she is doing something she hates, just for me. I also pop a Cialis if I know we are going to have sex, so I can make her happy and keep her motivated.
I'm trying to run the MAP and do more exercising to bring up my overall health. I also gave up porn, except when she is on her period. That helps me look past her weight much easier.


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## Kari (Feb 17, 2012)

Jeapordy - good for you for giving up porn. I don't have sympathy for a guy if he says he is having trouble being attracted to his wife if he still masturbates. When she's on her period, will she give you a BJ/HJ? It would be best for you to completely give up jacking off to videos of gorgeous 20-something hardbodies. Yes, do more cardio exercise and also lots of squats to help build your desire. But if your T is only at 350 ng/dl, that is low enough that many low-T clinics would treat you. Some docs only will treat if it drops below 250-300 ng/dl.

To the OP: since your wife wants more sex from you, you need to save all of your sexual energy for your wife, and that does mean 100% giving up self-servicing (unless she is out of town or out of commission for some reason). Jeapordy said about giving up porn: "That helps me look past her weight much easier. ". Masturbating isn't selfish if you are the HD spouse, but it absolutely is being selfish if you are the LD person and your spouse is feeling neglected. You signed up to be her husband, so you should take care of her, put more of an effort into your sex life, and you should care about her needs and desires. Unless a LD spouse makes an effort to improve his/her drive, figures out how to get aroused, and is committed to making it happen often, sex will always revert to only happening at the LD spouse's low frequency and that isn't fair and is not a compromise.


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## IndyTMI (Oct 26, 2012)

Kari said:


> Jeopardy - good for you for giving up porn. * I don't have sympathy for a guy if he says he is having trouble being attracted to his wife if he still masturbates.* When she's on her period, will she give you a BJ/HJ? It would be best for you to give up jacking off to videos of gorgeous 20-something hardbodies. Yes, do more cardio exercise and also lots of squats to help build your desire.


I do...if his wife has allowed herself to become physically unattractive, I feel very sorry for him. His masturbating really has nothing to do with this other than the fact he can't bring himself to enjoy having sex with his overweight wife, so he takes matters into his own hands. I find no fault in this if she isn't doing anything to make herself more attractive to him. Look at what was posted in the OP...



> Several years ago, it occurred to me that* I would be more physically attracted to my wife if she lost some weight*, which didn't seem to happen after our last child was born. *She still has a pregnant look* (she occasionally gets asked if she is), which didn't bother me when she was pregnant, *but now that she isn't, it turns me off*, I'm ashamed to admit.





> She claims that her level of physical attraction toward me is unaffected by how I look, and thinks I should be the same way.


She can't control the love language in which he speaks, she can only control how well she speaks his language. Losing weight answers that.



> But she does want me to be genuinely physically attracted to her and not just have sex with her out of obligation.


If this is what she truly wants, she'll go through the motions to make it happen.



> As for me, I don't understand why she doesn't care more about her body. I don't think it's anything practical like physical problems or lack of time that keeps her from exercising (she watches science fiction shows for a few hours every night). It's just not important to her, and I don't know why. This seems like it ought to be a pretty easy problem to fix, but I'm starting to build up some anger of my own over it.


It is a simple problem to fix if she wants to fix it.


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## Kari (Feb 17, 2012)

IndyTM said:


> I do...if his wife has allowed herself to become physically unattractive, I feel very sorry for him. His masturbating really* has nothing to do with this* other than the fact he can't bring himself to enjoy having sex with his overweight wife, so he takes matters into his own hands.


I don't buy that his masturbating has 'nothing to do with it'. This guy has a low drive. So yes it undoubtedly takes more to arouse him than it used to, and sure, it would be easier to get aroused if his wife were sexier looking. But *masturbating will make the situation worse*. If he avoids masturbating, his drive will eventually kick in enough to want to have sex, and it will be less important how sexy she looks. Because of his low drive and also his lower attraction to her, he needs to be very careful not to waste any of his sexual energy. 

IndyTM, you are more HD so for you it probably doesn't matter if you masturbate - you would still want sex often. The OP is in a completely different situation - he is only interested in sex every couple of weeks.

An LD man has trouble finding enough energy and passion to initiate sex with his W, so it just seems easier to masturbate when he feels a twinge of arousal (it takes less energy). It is a bad cycle since this makes him want sex even less frequently. Maybe the LD guy will get to the point where only his own rhythm or very strong grip can get him off. 

Why not do it at night - turn off the lights, and start caressing away? Everyone looks the same in the dark. What if he were a blind man, would he be unable to enjoy sex? I hope to be able to still enjoy sex in my 60's and 70's (and ideally even 80's) even when I'm as wrinkled as a prune. What if she had to lose a breast, or maybe lost an arm in an accident - is it OK to deprive her of sex then? I realize in this case her weight gain may be reversible and perhaps was preventable, but I'm making the point that your responsibility to sexually satisfy your partner doesn't go away even if his/her looks fade. Yes, he definitely should talk to her about losing weight and ideally exercise with her, but he shouldn't wait until some future point to satisfy her in bed.

The biggest problem is that the OP needs to improve his drive (maybe testosterone therapy), stop all masturbating, make more of an effort in his marriage, and think more often about his wife's needs.

He can't let himself off the hook for not addressing his drive issue and putting in more effort just because of her weight. She may or may not be able to lose it, it may take a long time, and even if she did, his sex drive might not really increase very much.

I have a dumb question for you guys. Let's say a guy who isn't very physically attracted to his wife because of her weight (but loves her and isn't angry at her) gets himself erect by touching himself or watching porn for a minute or so. Let's say his wife is awake reading in bed (unsuspecting his intention to initiate) and he's in the bathroom getting himself aroused. Then if he comes into the bedroom and sees his overweight wife, would he just lose his erection and not be able to initiate sex with her? What if he turns out the lights (let's say after grabbing the book out of her hands) - would just the thought of her being overweight even in the dark kill the erection? In this hypothetical scenario, assume she would be enthusiastic and responsive. Let's assume this H doesn't watch porn or masturbate.


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## RavenWolf (Dec 22, 2012)

Wow. So you used to be flabby, nerdy and a bit scrawny when you met your wife and yet somehow she fell in love with you. Now you decided to get in shape and find her unattractive because she isn't. This is hurtful to read. I put on quite a bit of weight and want it off. While I am trying, if I had an inkling my husband felt this way, especially if he was low drive, I would let him have it. 

I have to say I feel if she was your "perfect" in the weight department, your low drive would still keep you from meeting her higher drive. And from what you wrote, this was an issue before her weight gain.

Also, the advice of bluntly telling her she is fat and disgusting or introducing her to any hot bodied girl friends you meet at the gym are bad ideas. I would kick my husband in the low T for being so disrespectful and hurtful. I mean you weren't Chippendale material when y'all met.

I suggest you tell her you want to spend more quality time together and go for walks, hikes, bike rides. Do this with and without your kids. Schedule work out times with her. Be proactive in healthy meal planning. As an overweight woman myself, I can tell you this would get a much better and enthusiastic response from me. 

My husband knows how much I want to lose weight. He actually worries I will succeed and leave him for someone else because of his infidelity and marriage issues we have had. However I want to lose it for myself and to look good for him, so he can be proud. 

It is unfair for you to suddenly change and resent her for not doing the same. I'm actually very saddened by this post. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## IndyTMI (Oct 26, 2012)

No doubt he needs to work on his testosterone level, but as for me personally, being HD, I am just not turned on by women that are overweight. Being that my number one love language is physical touch, the attraction I have for whom is touching me is of high importance.
Sure I could stay aroused and finish, but that would be like duty or chore sex.
Even with the lights off, you can't see the blubber, but you can certainly feel it. Been there once and done that...not for me!


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

Yeah, it's unfair that her desire for you is unaffected by your appearance and yours is affected by hers, but there it is. 

You sound like a good guy who loves his wife. You're not wrong for feeling the way you do.

My husband is a lot more attracted to me when I'm reasonably thin. I am 5'7" and recently went from 141 pounds to 127. Big difference for my husband. He had never said anything, and we certainly still had regular sex (2/3 times a week) but since I've lost weight and toned up (I run), he gropes me all the time and we have sex 4/5 times a week. 

I did feel a bit funny about this, but something that actually really helped was remembering all the posts I'd read on TAM from husbands who really loved and wanted their wives, but who were honest about the effect extra weight had on their desire. 

The problem is, there isn't any way really for you to address this. It sounds like your wife is already very sensitive about her weight and being attractive to you. I would have felt very sad and hopeless if my husband had said anything to me and I don't know that it would have inspired me to do anything as it can feel like such a huge task before you get started, and I only had 15-20 pounds to lose. 

I was a runner before my kids were born, so it was probably easier for me, as as they got older and less dependent, I was keen to get back to it. Also, I weighed myself at my parents place, and was shocked to see a higher weight than I ever had. My jeans were tight too. 

How old are your kids? Does she get time to exercise? Was there any point in her life where she did exercise regularly? Even if she doesn't want to, changing her eating will help without exercise. MyFitnessPal is a great resource. 

Good luck. Maybe you could try getting her to read some of the similar threads on TAM. There are lots, and mostly the men are all good guys who just want to find their wives sexy again, but feel bad that they are even asking.


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## Kari (Feb 17, 2012)

IndyTM said:


> as for me personally, being HD, I am just not turned on by women that are overweight. Being that my number one love language is physical touch, the attraction I have for whom is touching me is of high importance.
> Sure I could stay aroused and finish, but that would be like duty or chore sex.
> Even with the lights off, you can't see the blubber, but you can certainly feel it. Been there once and done that...not for me!


What about love? What about the person inside? Sure, I wouldn't be very attracted initially to an overweight stranger if I were trying to find someone to date, but if the person I married gained weight (and still was as nice to me as ever), I wouldn't stop loving them or wanting to make them happy. This is the person you committed to share your life with. Can't you still picture them as they looked when you first met them? My H has gone gray and is losing his hair, but I still see him as he was when he was young. And for me, loving the person is what makes sex fulfilling, not just their hot body.


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## RavenWolf (Dec 22, 2012)

Kari, nicely said.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ScaredandUnsure (Nov 17, 2011)

I'd highly caution how you approach it. If you're a tool about how you handle it, you may cause her to lose pounds and when she does that, she may decide to lose the husband.


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## IndyTMI (Oct 26, 2012)

Kari said:


> What about love? What about the person inside? Sure, I wouldn't be very attracted initially to an overweight stranger if I were trying to find someone to date, but if the person I married gained weight (and still was as nice to me as ever), I wouldn't stop loving them or wanting to make them happy. This is the person you committed to share your life with. Can't you still picture them as they looked when you first met them? My H has gone gray and is losing his hair, but I still see him as he was when he was young. And for me, loving the person is what makes sex fulfilling, not just their hot body.


That does make it a bit different, but not too much from my perspective. Some changes to our bodies is unavoidable. I had mostly a full head of hair when the wife and I met, now the top of my dome doesn't grow much, so rather than looking like Krusty the Clown, I opt to shave my head daily. My wife likes my bald head. 
I had told her once that if she got big and fat, I'd divorce her. It kind of goes along with the same thought as we were close to being sexless and once I made the positive changes and she still refused me, I told her I wanted a divorce. Why? Because that wasn't who I married. Sex wasn't a problem before marriage, why did it become one? Many reasons why, but the fact is that once I made my demands known, with a little assistance from me, she made the necessary changes to correct that issue. I would certainly expect her to do the same weight wise, if that were the concern. 
I can picture her as she was when I first met her, but if her weight was now so much greater than it was when we first met, that may in fact piss me off even more, knowing how she could still look. But yes, one can still love, just won't be "in love"

Whether you think this sounds shallow of me or not, it goes into a lot more than physical attraction. For me, a lot of my concerns for being overweight are health related. If your spouse isn't taking care of their health, that is a greater concern than the attraction issue, as there will be more complications and issues the older they get.


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## Kari (Feb 17, 2012)

IndyTM, why does it seem like you can only sympathize with the guy here? As a HD person who has gotten rejected a lot in the past, why don't you have as much sympathy for the HD wife? I think her love language is physical touch too, and it isn't being met. It is not always as 'easy' to lose weight as you imply. Maybe she is somewhat depressed or has a thyroid issue. She should also get checked by a doctor.

The OP said he has been much lower drive than his wife since the first year of their marriage, presumably before she gained the weight. He thinks maybe he would want more sex if she lost weight, but who knows, maybe he'd want it once a week instead of once every two weeks. Maybe he still wouldn't be that passionate. 

So how does it help the OP's marriage for him to focus so much on her weight? That is something he doesn't have much control over. However, he can take some actions that might help her lose - cook the meals more often himself and only make healthy low-carb meals, set an example by not eating fast food, junk food, or desserts, and go out for a walk with her every evening. Set out trays of healthy snacks like carrot sticks or celery so she won't snack on junk. Make her healthy (fruit but no sugar/no ice cream) smoothies to replace some meals. Cook some low glycemic food for breakfast (e.g. steel cut oats) instead of high carb toast or pancakes.

There are plenty of things he could do himself immediately that don't depend on her changing: spend more time with her, cuddle/kiss/hug/flirt more, try to focus on her good qualities, stop masturbating, and go to the doctor to investigate testosterone therapy. A lot of the 'in love' or 'in lust' feeling is actually caused by testosterone, and if that's too low, it is just going to be more rare and more difficult for him to get aroused. If treatment made him hornier, the weight thing might not be an issue as far as their sex life goes. 

I wouldn't love it if my spouse were overweight, but if he were, I would still like it if he at least wanted sex a lot. I know sex isn't as great or hot if you aren't physically attracted to the person, but if you love the person, I think it would still feel nice, wouldn't it? A question for guys, if you have an erection and have sex with your wife that you love but aren't attracted to (and you weren't masturbating in between), would it feel just numb or boring?


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Kari said:


> I have a dumb question for you guys. Let's say a guy who isn't very physically attracted to his wife because of her weight (but loves her and isn't angry at her) gets himself erect by touching himself or watching porn for a minute or so. Let's say his wife is awake reading in bed (unsuspecting his intention to initiate) and he's in the bathroom getting himself aroused. Then if he comes into the bedroom and sees his overweight wife, would he just lose his erection and not be able to initiate sex with her? What if he turns out the lights (let's say after grabbing the book out of her hands) - would just the thought of her being overweight even in the dark kill the erection? In this hypothetical scenario, assume she would be enthusiastic and responsive. Let's assume this H doesn't watch porn or masturbate.


I think it would depend on many factors. If the husband is in peak shape, he probably appreciates physical beauty more than other men, so he would be more likely to feel no attraction to an overweight wife.

If we're talking about a wife who has gained 25 lbs since her marriage, then most men can probably overlook that as well.

But if we're talking about a morbidly obese woman, then that is a real mood killer. Hell, even the dark won't help much if you can't wrap your arms around her.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

RavenWolf said:


> I put on quite a bit of weight and want it off. While I am trying, if I had an inkling my husband felt this way, especially if he was low drive, I would let him have it.


I have bad news for you. Men are attracted to slim, healthy women. I know. It's shocking to see it written out there in black and white. But there you have it. It's always been that way. It will always be that way. Take comfort in the immutable nature of the truth.



RavenWolf said:


> Also, the advice of bluntly telling her she is fat and disgusting or introducing her to any hot bodied girl friends you meet at the gym are bad ideas. I would kick my husband in the low T for being so disrespectful and hurtful. I mean you weren't Chippendale material when y'all met.


Not so fast. The OP has become more attractive over the course of his marriage and his wife has become less attractive. This isn't a case of two people each putting on 20 lbs and the husband acting like he's doing his wife a favor by tolerating her.

Try a thought experiment to put in terms women can understand. You meet, fall in love with, and marry a successful doctor who makes $500k/year. After a few years of marriage, he quits his practice, spends all his money, and goes on welfare for no reason other than laziness. He refuses to consider trying to earn any money. Would you find him as attractive as you used to? Most women wouldn't.



RavenWolf said:


> It is unfair for you to suddenly change and resent her for not doing the same. I'm actually very saddened by this post.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You have it backwards. His wife put on a significant amount of weight. So much that it has rendered her unattractive to her husband. She knows this and refuses to do anything about it. And you think it's not fair that his rational mind can't override his subconscious urges for healthy women so that his wife can continue channel surfing and avoiding exercise? I disagree.


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## rabbit75 (Jan 7, 2013)

Thanks for all the great replies. I'm still digesting a lot of them, but here are some replies to some questions:

Regarding being "sneaky" and trying to entice my wife into exercise, she is both too sensitive and too smart for that. One of the reasons we married each other is that we understand each other very well, and she'd see right through a "let's go for a walk" ploy. For example, a few weeks ago I got up the courage to ask her if there were any TV shows she wanted me to download onto the PC I use for exercise biking (which wasn't a stupid question--she watches some obscure ones), and she of course saw right through that and told me to never ask her that again. Just yesterday I asked her if there was any particular fruits she wanted me to get from the grocery store before we took the kids to visit my mother who has come over from the US to seem them. When she said, "I don't like fruit", I said I noticed that she had been eating a large chunk of the candy my mom was feeding our kids--disaster.

I don't know what the definition of "obese" is, and I have no idea how much my wife weighs, but I doubt that most people would classify her as "obese". She has a pretty face, nice skin, large breasts and looks good from certain angels, but has an unfortunate concentration of fat in front that turns me off. Pregnant-looking is the best way to describe (she still walks as if she's carrying our last 10 pound baby). On the bright side, when she has started to lose weight, her stomach is where I've noticed it first. I wish I could quantify it so I could get feedback on whether I'm being overly fussy. But if it's only 25 pounds overweight by clinical definitions, then that just means it would be all the easier to lose just half of it and turn me on like she hasn't in years.

As I said at the beginning, she prefers sex at night in the dark anyway, so it's not just about sight; probably more so it's how big she feels when I put my arms around her waist, which makes me feel like a kid hugging my mother instead of a man. One advantage for her in my being turned off by her stomach fat is that I can usually last long enough for her to have an orgasm when she's on top. I often can only have an orgasm myself when she turns on her side with her back to me, causing the fat to sink down where I can't see or feel it, at which point I usually climax within a minute or two. Ironically, if I weren't turned off by the stomach fat, I'd probably be even more useless in bed 

We had a big talk about sex last week and I was stunned into silence when she complained that I could at least give her oral sex when I'm not in the mood. I was surprised because for as long as we've been married, she has seemed to only like oral sex as back-up for after I've climaxed and gone limp when she's on top of me (which seems to be a position she's content with). It never seemed like something she felt was worth getting naked and turned on for, and if I ever initiated it before intercourse, she'd usually stop me after a couple minutes. I also told her I was worried that she would feel rejected if I gave her oral sex and then went to sleep, which she didn't buy, saying that I've spent our entire marriage rejecting her anyway. Since then, I've offered it to her several nights in a row, but so far she hasn't accepted it, saying she was tired, cramped, etc. She said when she's desperate for an orgasm, she'll tell me. I suspect that this will actually happen at most once a week, but I'm going to keep trying.

Regarding low testosterone, it's still speculation that mine is in fact abnormally low and that it's the cause of my low sex drive. I've also had low-level chronic depression since I was a teenager, all kinds of sleeping irregularities and a blood-sugar problem I haven't really categorized (I'm a wreck if I don't eat a ton of protein or eat the slightest bit of sugary food) which leave me exhausted at night. But perhaps it's time to get my testosterone level checked again.

As for the suggestions that men with low testosterone should avoid masturbating, that's probably not bad advice, but I think a rigid rule is kind of silly. I haven't found that I build up higher levels of sexual desire over time by not ejaculating (someone mentioned "blue balls" in another thread and I had to Google it--I don't remember experiencing this since I was a teenager). The whole problem is that it just never gets very high. Obviously it would be stupid to masturbate before a planned romantic evening, but if I'm getting ready to go to work in the morning and I still have an obnoxious erection, I'll take a few minutes to get rid of it.

RavenWolf, you're sad to read this, and I'm sad to write it. But if you re-read my post, you'll see that I did not suddenly find my wife unattractive because I got fit and felt too good for her. It was in fact the opposite: I started exercising because I was already struggling to find her attractive with the weight gain and wanted to inspire her to exercise too. As this did not work over time, I gradually got more direct about it until it finally blew up in my face.

As for your own weight issue you brought up, have you ever tried getting an exercise bike and watching a movie on it every night? With light to moderate pedaling, you could burn about 700 calories during a 90 minute movie, which is about 5,000 calories per week, or 20,000 calories per month, which will burn 6 pounds per month. That's on top of whatever you lose through dieting or strength training. If you have a sedentary daily routine with enough time at home, then an exercise bike and a laptop can turn it to your advantage. If you have even more time at home than 90 minutes per day, then you can reduce the intensity and spend even more time on the bike with your work or entertainment. Nerds like myself have absolutely no excuse for not being slim (I don't know a lot about thyroid problems, but the same laws of physics apply to everyone, though I understand that a thyroid problem requires a lot of extra discipline to stop eating).

Finally, I noticed some people suggesting aerobic exercise (jogging) as treatment for low testosterone. My understanding is that any aerobic exercise above about 70% of maximum heart rate has a net negative impact on testosterone level. That's why I prefer light but extended exercise on the bike over aerobic workouts (which I get from weightlifting anyway).


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

The fact that your wife carries her weight in the stomach area is a problem as it means she is far more suceptible to heart disease than if she carried it on her thighs and bottom. 'apple' shape rather than 'pear'.

Obese is a medical term, so it doesn't matter if most people wouldn't call her obese. If she has significant stomach fat, and it sounds like she does if it affects her gait, then she's probably obese, technically.

She also may have extra issues with stomach fat due to the separation of stomach muscles that can occur in pregnancy. It sounds like she carried a big baby, so that is probably exacerbating the problem.

I think if I were you I would lay it out. It doesn't sound like she's going to do anything on her own. Tell her you love her, you want to have a good, sexual marriage, but you're not turned on physically by her. 

She'll be upset, hurt, and probably furious. Too bad for her. It's either that or live a false life with you. 

And I'll repeat this; forget the exercise for now and start with the food changes. MyFitnessPal.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

OP, you haven't mentioned WHY you don't get testosterone meds. 

That is something you could compromise with her on..... tell her that if she works on what she can do about the weight because you really want to want her.... then you will get testosterone meds to boost your libido, as opposed to light exercises or whatever.

Sounds like she's been getting turned down, rejected, for years... 3 times a month is like nothing. So NOW you have a problem with her weight? 

I get it, if it's a problem for you... it just is. But from her POV I think part of her would figure "YOU SUCK"... but part of her (the horny, hopeful part) may be open to compromise. AND, she wouldn't be open to compromise if she thought the frequency wouldn't be any different anyway.

*Edited to add: That all makes TOTAL sense in my head, but doesn't read as clear!


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> I have bad news for you. *Men are attracted to slim, healthy women.* I know. It's shocking to see it written out there in black and white. But there you have it. It's always been that way. It will always be that way. Take comfort in the immutable nature of the truth.


Really, ALL men are attracted to slim, healthy women?
Hmm, very interesting that you're able to know what ALL want in a woman.
Or are you only answering for yourself? 
And how slim is this particular preference?
Would that be a size 00 on a 5'7 body, or a size 4 on a 5'4 body?
There's a lot of wiggle room there, so some clarity would be helpful so we at least have an idea what you're talking about. 
Slim is just too vague.


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## RavenWolf (Dec 22, 2012)

I guess us fat women should divorce our husbands so they can find a thin chick. I mean, obviously we are undeserving of affection. This type of thinking literally almost killed my sister. Put her in the hospital in a coma on life support. She quit eating to lose weight and almost died.

Oh...and for you balding men out there...aren't there options out there for you? I mean, why should we accept that change on you? Increased risk of skin cancer if you don't wear spf or hats.

So your changes, as men, are acceptable but women are not allowed to age over what? 19? This OP's wife isn't morbidly obese or he would know.

And since you had to shock me by saying men are only attracted to trim, fit women, what about women?? Men don't have to be pleasing to us, they can be flabby, scrawny or balding but it's all good....'cause they're men! 

OP, unlike myself it sounds like your wife does not want to lose weight. If she is up 25 pounds or so after carrying your babies it is sad you would feel so disgusted. Not sure what to tell you. Your lack of drive was there before her weight gain, so her weight really isn't the issue.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Doc221 (Nov 26, 2012)

Shouldn't it be....beauty is in the eye of the beholder.


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## Kari (Feb 17, 2012)

rabbit: I wasn't suggesting being sneaky when you ask her to go on a walk. Be honest and tell her she will be happier and healthier if she moves her body, and that is important to you, but it would be fun to spend the time together. Suggest a regular time, starting very easy with just 15 minutes (e.g. 7:30 to 7:45 pm or whatever works before/after kids bedtimes). If you walk with her every night (which I think is very important to form a habit), eventually she'll probably want the walk to be longer. 

I have a sedentary job, often work at home, and like your biking while working approach, but I don't think I could concentrate on my work (especially typing) while pedaling. What kind of bike do you use and how do you mount your computer? (A photo would be helpful.)

Your wife sounds like she feels unloved. You didn't answer my questions - do you give her plenty of hugs, kisses, and cuddles every day, flirt with her most days, and have date nights? Do you give her compliments (find something if not her appearance)? Do you say 'I love you' often?

I absolutely agree that she needs to change her diet and exercise often. But it is wrong for you to so rarely offer sex in the meantime. At least give her cuddling and long hugs and kisses if you can't manage sex. Why not offer to use a vibrator on her while kissing her (it is easier than oral for both of you, as a woman I have to be in a certain type of mood and have immediately just showered to want oral).

You also didn't answer another question - why is it so hard to get yourself erect and initiate with her a couple times a week? Would you lose your erection or not enjoy the sex at all? Would having sex with her twice per week be so unpleasant that you would resent her if you forced yourself to do it?

Make an appt with the doc and get your T levels checked. You should be willing to put in this effort if you are asking her to change herself. If your libido were higher, it would be so much easier for you to keep aroused and look past the extra weight.


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## rabbit75 (Jan 7, 2013)

Kari said:


> rabbit: I wasn't suggesting being sneaky when you ask her to go on a walk. Be honest and tell her she will be happier and healthier if she moves her body, and that is important to you, but it would be fun to spend the time together. Suggest a regular time, starting very easy with just 15 minutes (e.g. 7:30 to 7:45 pm or whatever works before/after kids bedtimes). If you walk with her every night (which I think is very important to form a habit), eventually she'll probably want the walk to be longer.


I don't think this suggestion would go over well at this time, but it might work in the future.



Kari said:


> I have a sedentary job, often work at home, and like your biking while working approach, but I don't think I could concentrate on my work (especially typing) while pedaling. What kind of bike do you use and how do you mount your computer? (A photo would be helpful.)


I'll try to get you a photo later, but I use this recumbent exercise bike,

Bodyworx Elegance Recumbent | Exercise Bikes & Recumbents | Sportsmart | Melbourne's largest sports warehouses

with this table:

MLE Table - Over Bed Standard, Tilt Top - PharmacyOnline.com.au

I either put a laptop on the table or put a PC screen up on a tall table and connect this keyboard:

ThinkPad USB Keyboard with TrackPoint - US English | Lenovo | (US)

The keyboard has the TrackPoint that IBM/Lenovo users know and love, which is particularly easy to use while riding the bike.

In order to make room for the table, I had to remove the console and post, which are unnecessary.

If you find you're unable to concentrate on work because of the pedaling, then simply slow down. When it comes simply to burning fat (as opposed to cardiovascular health or strength training), quantity is more important than quality.

Or you might like the Trek Desk better than an exercise bike: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrHRrfQ7lXQ



> Your wife sounds like she feels unloved. You didn't answer my questions - do you give her plenty of hugs, kisses, and cuddles every day, flirt with her most days, and have date nights? Do you give her compliments (find something if not her appearance)? Do you say 'I love you' often?


I agree, she feels unloved. I do hug and cuddle with her, but not flirt, and her own flirting tends to make me withdraw out of fear that it might lead her to expect sex that might not happen. Her revelation that she likes receiving oral sex, if it turns out to be true, might help change things though because there would be less pressure for me to get fully aroused for it. I do tell her I love her, though possibly not often enough. I think the feelings of not being loved come directly from my lack of interest in sex though, because when we do have sex, she tells me I'm sweet, loving etc.



> I absolutely agree that she needs to change her diet and exercise often. But it is wrong for you to so rarely offer sex in the meantime. At least give her cuddling and long hugs and kisses if you can't manage sex. Why not offer to use a vibrator on her while kissing her (it is easier than oral for both of you, as a woman I have to be in a certain type of mood and have immediately just showered to want oral).


As I've said, I do intend continue offering her oral sex when she goes to bed each night, which might lead to more intercourse afterward, but with less pressure for it. I did give her a vibrator as a gift before we were married, but after playing around with it for a few minutes, it was clear she preferred my tongue and fingers. I don't think she feels the need for a shower either (she knows she's pretty much odorless and tasteless, regardless of whether she's had a shower), so if this doesn't happen, it will be for other reasons.



> You also didn't answer another question - why is it so hard to get yourself erect and initiate with her a couple times a week?


A penis has a mind of its own. I sometimes get into bed with an erection, but not in the mood for sex at all. Sometimes I am somewhat in the mood for sex, but after half an our of cuddling and talking, I no longer am. Sometimes I can't get into bed at all when she happens to go to bed because I have phone calls to make to the US (we live in Australia). The bottom line though is that if I were both more attracted to her and had a greater sex drive, sex would find a way to happen, which of course she knows, and hence her feeling unwanted.



> Would you lose your erection or not enjoy the sex at all? Would having sex with her twice per week be so unpleasant that you would resent her if you forced yourself to do it?


I don't think I've ever fully lost an erection while having sex, though it can certainly lose intensity and not be enjoyable at all, which is depressing when it happens, and which I therefore try to avoid.



> Make an appt with the doc and get your T levels checked. You should be willing to put in this effort if you are asking her to change herself. If your libido were higher, it would be so much easier for you to keep aroused and look past the extra weight.


Getting my testosterone checked again certainly seems to be a no-brainer. I had it checked and was prescribed some supplements shortly before I moved from the US to Australia, but once I was here and we got married, we forgot about it I guess. Actually, I think taking testosterone supplements jeopardized my getting a permanent resident visa somehow, because I was forced to have my balls examined by a female immigration doctor at some point, a bizarre tale for another thread.

Let me know if I've missed any other questions.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

RavenWolf said:


> I guess us fat women should divorce our husbands so they can find a thin chick. I mean, obviously we are undeserving of affection. This type of thinking literally almost killed my sister. Put her in the hospital in a coma on life support. She quit eating to lose weight and almost died.
> 
> Oh...and for you balding men out there...aren't there options out there for you? I mean, why should we accept that change on you? Increased risk of skin cancer if you don't wear spf or hats.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry for your sister. But why all the dramatic language in your post or the attack on the OP? We women say we want our mates to be honest, but when they want to be honest about weight, we get incredibly defensive and go on the attack. It's very hypocritical of us to ask for openness and honesty, but then shut our ears to truths we don't want to hear.

How is going bald the same thing as maintaining a normal weight for one's height? As a woman, I don't even see how that's even the same thing. 

Gaining a lot of weight isn't inevitable or something that HAS to happen as one gets older. In America these days it seems like it's fine to carry an extra 30 or more pounds, but it's because we've become so desensitized to the weight problem in this country. 

I think both men and women should try to keep themselves reasonably fit. One does not have to be a professional athlete or female fitness model to maintain a certain standard of fitness. I feel we owe it to show our best selves, both physically and emotionally, to our significant others. He stood by me at my worst so I want him there at my best.


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## IndyTMI (Oct 26, 2012)

Kari said:


> IndyTM, why does it seem like you can only sympathize with the guy here? As a HD person who has gotten rejected a lot in the past, why don't you have as much sympathy for the HD wife? I think her love language is physical touch too, and it isn't being met. It is not always as 'easy' to lose weight as you imply. Maybe she is somewhat depressed or has a thyroid issue. She should also get checked by a doctor.


I sympathize with her in only one regard...she is HD and he is LD. I have the opposite in my relationship, so I know what tensions this can cause. As the HD partner, I had to look at all of the other aspects of our relationship and try to understand why there were ongoing issues...why were we still nearly sexless. After reading the MMSL, I made the necessary changes to entice my wife back into the bedroom. I was willing to do most anything to regain what I once had. In this situation with the OP, she should know that her extra weight isn't attractive, but she refuses to do anything about it. In fact, she proceeds to eat more fattening stuff and doesn't seem to care much at all about her weight or health.



> The OP said he has been much lower drive than his wife since the first year of their marriage, presumably before she gained the weight. He thinks maybe he would want more sex if she lost weight, but who knows, maybe he'd want it once a week instead of once every two weeks. Maybe he still wouldn't be that passionate.


Maybe, maybe not, but at least she would be healthier and that would be a huge plus.



> So how does it help the OP's marriage for him to focus so much on her weight? That is something he doesn't have much control over. However, he can take some actions that might help her lose - cook the meals more often himself and only make healthy low-carb meals, set an example by not eating fast food, junk food, or desserts, and go out for a walk with her every evening. Set out trays of healthy snacks like carrot sticks or celery so she won't snack on junk. Make her healthy (fruit but no sugar/no ice cream) smoothies to replace some meals. Cook some low glycemic food for breakfast (e.g. steel cut oats) instead of high carb toast or pancakes.


She refuses to comply with anything weight-loss related...to me that is not only giving up on oneself, it projects into their marriage as well. 



> There are plenty of things he could do himself immediately that don't depend on her changing: spend more time with her, cuddle/kiss/hug/flirt more, try to focus on her good qualities, stop masturbating, and go to the doctor to investigate testosterone therapy. A lot of the 'in love' or 'in lust' feeling is actually caused by testosterone, and if that's too low, it is just going to be more rare and more difficult for him to get aroused. If treatment made him hornier, the weight thing might not be an issue as far as their sex life goes.


No doubt, he needs to address his testosterone level. Men don't all react to testosterone the same way, meaning that two men with identical body builds that have the same level of testosterone may not have the same level of sex drive. No two people are alike, so even if he is on the low side of normal, he may need to be at the high side of normal for him to be "normal".



> I wouldn't love it if my spouse were overweight, but if he were, I would still like it if he at least wanted sex a lot. I know sex isn't as great or hot if you aren't physically attracted to the person, but if you love the person, I think it would still feel nice, wouldn't it? A question for guys, if you have an erection and have sex with your wife that you love but aren't attracted to (and you weren't masturbating in between), would it feel just numb or boring?


If I am not physically attracted to her, then I really have no interest having sex with her. I'd rather masturbate!
Actually, in this particular situation with the OP, she wants more sex, but isn't doing anything on her end to get it more. I saw on the news the other day that said sex burns 1600 calories per hour. He should set her up with weight goals to meet and once she reaches those goals, he has to up his activity with her, whether it is oral or PIV. They both end up getting what they want, she gets sex and he gets an attractive wife!


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Phenix70 said:


> Really, ALL men are attracted to slim, healthy women?
> Hmm, very interesting that you're able to know what ALL want in a woman.
> Or are you only answering for yourself?


Ah, yes. The old generalization canard. No thread on TAM would be complete without it. One of these days, I'll learn my lesson and put my standard text into a file I can just copy and paste into place to help educate people who think generalizations are invalid. But, for now, here goes.

Did I say ALL men are attracted to slim, healthy women? If I say that men are taller than women, would you interpret that to mean that I mean ALL men are taller than ALL women? Or, would you be reasonable and interpret it to mean that MOST men are taller than MOST women?

I am not only answering for myself. I am answering for the majority of men. Most men are attracted to slim, healthy women. That's why magazines put slim, healthy women on the covers.

Yes, there is a minority of men who are chubby chasers. But there is a reason why fat women don't appear on magazine covers very often.



Phenix70 said:


> And how slim is this particular preference?
> Would that be a size 00 on a 5'7 body, or a size 4 on a 5'4 body?
> There's a lot of wiggle room there, so some clarity would be helpful so we at least have an idea what you're talking about.
> Slim is just too vague.


Fair enough. Is a 0.7 waist to hip ratio too vague? Because that's what most men prefer.


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## MrsOldNews (Feb 22, 2012)

Have you ever considered getting her to go to a sex therapist with you under the guise of finding out why you're so low drive and doing whatever you can to change it. Get a female therapist for sure ( so you're wife csbt say all you men think alike). Then speak your mind in a direct manner (try to be as non offensive as possible although she's bound to get upset)

If a therapist validated your feelings and talks to your wife about the importance of maintaining a healthy weight for health reasons for her children her husband and for a better sex life. Not just because she looks better but because people who are in better shape have the stamina and strength to do some very fun things in the bedroom.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

Here is an LD man who wants to increase his sexual attraction/desire to his wife. I admire the fact that he is trying to IMPROVE his sex life.

He is being honest that his wife's significant weight gain does not help a very honorable pursuit.

She could lose the weight if she wanted to. She doesn't want to. She "hopes" for an improvement in her sex life but is not taking the steps to make it happen.

Hope is not a plan.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

RavenWolf said:


> I guess us fat women should divorce our husbands so they can find a thin chick. I mean, obviously we are undeserving of affection. This type of thinking literally almost killed my sister. Put her in the hospital in a coma on life support. She quit eating to lose weight and almost died.


Yes. That's exactly what we're saying. Anyone overweight is better off dead. Thanks for being so reasonable.



RavenWolf said:


> And since you had to shock me by saying men are only attracted to trim, fit women, what about women?? Men don't have to be pleasing to us, they can be flabby, scrawny or balding but it's all good....'cause they're men!


Not at all. The difference is that men don't get hysterical at the suggestion that women are more attracted to muscular, healthy men than to flabby, obese men. It's just a fact of life that most men have come to terms with. It doesn't threaten us like it does many women.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Emerald said:


> She could lose the weight if she wanted to. She doesn't want to. She "hopes" for an improvement in her sex life but is not taking the steps to make it happen.
> 
> Hope is not a plan.


:iagree:

I keep thinking evidently she doesn't want sex that bad because she isn't willing to put forth any effort to change it.

For the record I'm married to a shallow man. When I wanted more sex (I'm HD) I lost weight (gained with kids) and started working out. And yes I got more sex as a result. I could keep my delusion that he's attracted to me with an extra 30 pounds but I know better - he's not.

Oh and there isn't enough testosterone out there to compensate for being turned off by fat.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

rabbit75 said:


> Regarding being "sneaky" and trying to entice my wife into exercise, she is both too sensitive and too smart for that.


I'm not surprised. That's why I think the best approach to coax her into your lifestyle is simply by being direct that it is now your lifestyle. Rather than spending your time around the house, where she can be sedentary, spend your time outside. And invite her. Take your child and go on a walk. If she wants to spend family time with you and your child, then she needs to walk.

You can even make it about your kid. Even sedentary, obese women who are unwilling to change their lifestyles probably don't want to raise their children to be sedentary, obese adults. Tell her you want your child to be raised with an active, healthy lifestyle and you're just making that happen.

It would probably take her a while to come around. She would probably suspect, correctly, that you're trying to get her off the couch. But if you keep it up for weeks or months, she probably won't be satisfied to spend her time alone at home while you're out with your child enjoying yourselves.



rabbit75 said:


> She said when she's desperate for an orgasm, she'll tell me. I suspect that this will actually happen at most once a week, but I'm going to keep trying.


It's good to keep trying. I like Kari's suggestions on that topic. Libido is a "use it or lose it" kind of thing. Having more sex really can make you want more sex.

Good luck.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> Yes. That's exactly what we're saying. Anyone overweight is better off dead. Thanks for being so reasonable.
> 
> 
> Not at all. The difference is that men don't get hysterical at the suggestion that women are more attracted to muscular, healthy men than to flabby, obese men. It's just a fact of life that most men have come to terms with. It doesn't threaten us like it does many women.


Agree.

When my 1st husband gradually put on 40 pounds over the course of my marriage, he didn't get all defensive when I would agree with him that he was getting too fat. I told him he looks better w/o the gut & he agreed. We would work out together & he would participate in meal planning so he could lose the extra weight. He never whined "that I was being shallow & hurting his feelings, blah, blah, blah."

With my current husband, we were both attracted to people of a certain weight (some people like thin, athletic, fat) it only matters what an individual is attracted to. We both happen to be attracted to thin/healthy. Over the course of our 4-yr. relationship, when we both add a few pounds, again we adjust our meal planning & workouts. We do not get offended and/or pissy about discussing our weight.

OP is not attracted to his wife's weight. He is not shallow. He is honest.


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## Kari (Feb 17, 2012)

OK, I think we almost all agree that it would be very frustrating to be in the OP's position where his wife doesn't seem to be doing anything to improve her weight or health. I think he should keep trying to get her to change because her health and weight affects him directly. He has to take action but try to not nag but instead to invite her along to do things with him. I think he should push for going on a family walk every evening. Most weight loss magazines or web sites say that slow walking is the best way to start. A family I know goes on a walk (with two kids in strollers) for one hour every day outside, even when it is snowing or raining. That would be such a great tradition and I admire them for this, though I'm usually too lazy to do it myself and at this point my kids are too old to make them do it.

The OP could do the shopping and buy healthy food, learn new healthy recipes, and cook them for the family. Experiment with recipes to find some low-carb, Mediterranean diet meals and healthy snacks she likes. Even if she doesn't like many fruits and vegetables, there have to be some she likes. She needs to wean her tastes away from the sweets and shouldn't base her meals on carbs. Getting the kids used to healthy food will benefit them too.

Even if the OP and his wife do these things, losing the weight might take a very long time. Remember that it is often harder for females to lose weight than for males, and it is very easy to gain too much weight during pregnancy. If she is taking antidepressants or certain other meds, losing weight becomes very hard. The OP needs to step up at least somewhat in the bedroom regardless of what she does because he is her husband. At least once a week for god's sake. Remember he said she was feeling sexually neglected even before she gained the weight. He knew his T was low and should have gotten treated. She has paid the price of being sexually neglected for years, even before weight gain, because he didn't follow up on this.

This might not apply to the OP's wife, but the times it has been easiest for me to lose weight is when I knew I'd be having sex in the daytime a lot (my body would be seen by someone I love). If I don't get sex, I often start turning to food. But I would hate for my H to directly barter more sex for my losing weight, e.g. I'll give you sex when you lose another pound. That sounds like a horrible idea. But yes he should be honest and tell her that his sexual attraction is less than it would be if she lost the pounds. Losing weight can be very hard for some people, depending on genetics and metabolism, and it's often a 2 steps forward, one step back process, and he will need to be patient. He should emphasize the effort and process, saying it will make him happier and more aroused if he sees her being active and eating healthy and trying to improve herself, its the her effort and her showing wisdom and self-control that is most important, not the success/failure. For example, I wouldn't get annoyed if my child got a C in a class if he worked very hard and tried his best, but I might if he got it because he didn't do the homework or study.


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## Jeapordy (Aug 12, 2012)

The OPs wife is "sensitive" and smart. So what?? That just means that she knows exactly how to manipulate him. The OP needs to be HONEST about how he feels about her weight. It's not shallow, it's not wrong. It is one of his top 5 needs. If she loves him, then she needs to meet his needs or she needs to admit that she puts her need to be sedentary above his needs. 
I would put her in a position to admit the truth. She needs to admit that she will never change, she will never try and lose weight, or she needs to start getting fit. If he's honest, she will cry, she will be upset and it might be very uncomfortable for a few days. But it's going to take some dynamite to break down the walls that have been built up for many years.
All of the covert attempts to get her to eat healthy or exercise will never work. She's smart and she's playing the "sensitive" card. If she is really that sensitive, then she knows that she's fat and she is making a choice to not meet her husband's needs and making him feel bad about wanting what he wants.


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## Dulciean (Nov 18, 2012)

Where on the spectrum of things do you think this puts me?- I was very voluptuous ( ok- cut to the chase I was overweight and majorly! ) when I met my hubby. We had great chemistry and awesome sex. He is also a Big Guy. I have lost weight and then put some back on and feel like he preferred me thinner. But arguably he liked what he saw when we originally met?!
I think I should just suck- it- up- princess and lose some weight!


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## Kari (Feb 17, 2012)

Jeapordy said:


> All of the covert attempts to get her to eat healthy or exercise will never work.


Most of us here are not saying to be covert. The OP should explain the weight is affecting his attraction to his W. The going for a walk and cooking healthy suggestions I made are not meant to be covert, they are open, honest, and obvious. The OP can be very direct, and tell her 'I'm going to cook on X days and I'm going to make healthy low-carb meals because our entire family needs to eat healthier'. That is true and she knows her weight is a part of this, it is not being sneaky and trying to fool her. He doesn't have to say 'I'm going to cook the meals because you need to lose weight' even though she'll know that is certainly a big part of the reason. But it really will be good for kids and him too if they all eat healthier. The idea is not to embarrass her with mentioning the word 'weight', but it isn't to hide anything.

When he intends to go for a walk, he can say 'Come on, go for a walk with me, it is important for us all to move our bodies.' He can say it every single night, and maybe even try to gently take her hand. If she says 'no', he walks by himself, then tries again the next night. Even though he doesn't say the word 'weight' when he invites her, she'll know that is part of it. If she sees him not give up, but continue to be polite and trying to improve himself (e.g. initiate sex more or cook more), I'll believe she will eventually say 'yes' to going on the walks with him.

He isn't trying to fool her, he is just being polite and diplomatic as possible when he encourages her to join him in healthy living.


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## rabbit75 (Jan 7, 2013)

Just to clarify the picture of my wife a little... She does walk quite a bit (she's never had a driver's license, we live near a train station and mostly use it for transportation), she does normally restrain herself with food, and she doesn't seem to be on any upward weight trend from two or three years ago. She also watches a movie on the exercise bike every now and then when she feels like getting some exercise. A few anecdotes I've told may have given the impression that she's always shoveling down candy while she sits in front of her computer all day. As I mentioned, my mother is visiting at the moment, and she does appear to handle the unusual stress by eating the junk my mom brings from the US (I get stressed out to, but I've trained myself to be repulsed by junk and shovel down apples and oranges instead). I'm not making any excuses--I just don't want to leave any inaccurate impressions.

I do think attempting to get prescribed testosterone supplements is a good idea (I don't think it's quite as easy as in the US though), but I'm undecided on the ethics of using that as a bargaining chip for my wife losing weight. On the one hand, she expects me to just accept any fat she gains "as the way she is", and low testosterone (if it is in fact low) is just the way *I* am. In fact, I have less control over my testosterone levels than she does over her fat levels. While I do it because I enjoy the challenge, by doing 300lb squats and nearly 400lb deadlifts a few times per week, I'm already doing all I can to naturally boost testosterone levels for an average-sized guy.

On the other hand, she didn't marry me knowing I had a low sex drive (the testosterone supplements I was prescribed briefly before moving to Australia was for depression, not sex drive), and now she's stuck with me and deserves sexual satisfaction. While I didn't deliberately bait and switch on her, in a sense I did by simply having a penis  We are both INFJ types according to the Myers Briggs Type Indicator, and we both therefore assumed that my aversion for porn and my not treating women like sexual objects was that I am extremely deep, not that I lacked testosterone LOL.

I think there are a few reasons why my losing weight isn't terribly important to my wife:

1. She's been brainwashed by truly obese women into believing that getting fat is inevitable for women, and that trying to stay slim for a man is sick.

2. She's understandably afraid that if she tried to lose weight to please me that it might not be enough and that it wouldn't lead to any improvements in our sex life. If she kept on trying, it could spiral into an eating disorder, damaged self-esteem, and all sorts of other problems.

3. At some level she might be humiliated and and angry that she doesn't have sex as leverage in her marriage the way most women do. She might feel like weight is the only leverage she has for getting what she wants and be afraid to give that up.

4. I think she has some common misconceptions about weight loss, e.g., that it's physically harder for women than men, that having babies makes it harder, that it's harder for older people than younger people, that if you're already active then doing disciplined exercise will either not do anything at all or else turn you into a rake, etc.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Dulciean said:


> Where on the spectrum of things do you think this puts me?- I was very voluptuous ( ok- cut to the chase I was overweight and majorly! ) when I met my hubby. We had great chemistry and awesome sex. He is also a Big Guy. I have lost weight and then put some back on and feel like he preferred me thinner. But arguably he liked what he saw when we originally met?!
> I think I should just suck- it- up- princess and lose some weight!


There are many men who like larger women. The rule is a woman should somewhat resemble the woman he married.

In your case I say if you want to lose weight for him then by all means do it and if you don't that's fine too. He's obviously not that concerned about it if you're still having awesome sex.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

I think people really overestimate what it is possible to eat and still lose weight. For example, to lose the last 2kg I am trying to lose I am staying under 1280 calories a day. This works out to:

Breakfast:
1/2 cup organic muesli with a 1/3 cup milk
Tea

Lunch:
2 poached eggs and fresh spinach on multigrain toast.

Dinner:
Pumpkin soup with toast, salad.

Snacks:
1 or 2 pieces of fruit. 1 cafe latte. Possibly a handful of cashews or some vegan chia pudding.

If I run six km at 5.22 min per km I burn 300 calories. So I could have a hot chocolate, or a couple of pieces of dark chocolate as well.

Forget any alcohol, extra lattes, the pecans I used to love. It's not much food, is it?


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## Open up now let it all go (Sep 20, 2012)

Kari said:


> I don't buy that his masturbating has 'nothing to do with it'. This guy has a low drive. So yes it undoubtedly takes more to arouse him than it used to, and sure, it would be easier to get aroused if his wife were sexier looking. But *masturbating will make the situation worse*. *If he avoids masturbating, his drive will eventually kick in enough to want to have sex, and it will be less important how sexy she looks. * Because of his low drive and also his lower attraction to her, he needs to be very careful not to waste any of his sexual energy.


Sorry but that just sounds plain cruel. Refraining from sexual release untill it gets to the point where you cannot hold it up any longer and will shag about anything in near sight? Who the hell wants to be the recipient of that kind of sex? On top of the fact that it does nothing to solve the actual attraction problem you're also not solving the low sex drive thing as there's probably going to be damned little sex if everytime he has to wait till his balls burst.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Open up now let it all go said:


> Sorry but that just sounds plain cruel. Refraining from sexual release untill it gets to the point where you cannot hold it up any longer and will shag about anything in near sight? Who the hell wants to be the recipient of that kind of sex? On top of the fact that it does nothing to solve the actual attraction problem you're also not solving the low sex drive thing as there's probably going to be damned little sex if everytime he has to wait till his balls burst.


She's not saying that. She's talking about degrees. Refraining from release may help him marginally increase his desire. And obviously, the higher his desire, the lower his standards and the more attractive he'll find his wife.


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## Open up now let it all go (Sep 20, 2012)

What do you mean with degrees?

I understand the analogy and I don't doubt that it will work to a certain extent but it sounds more like a bandaid to mask the problem than a real solution.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Open up now let it all go said:


> What do you mean with degrees?
> 
> I understand the analogy and I don't doubt that it will work to a certain extent but it sounds more like a bandaid to mask the problem than a real solution.


By degrees, I mean a marginal improvement. Kari wasn't suggesting that refraining from masturbating would turn him from a marginal LD person into a lunatic unable to restrain himself from ravishing his unattractive wife. She meant that he would find her marginally more attractive because his libido would be marginally higher.

It is a bandaid. But it's just one step in an ultimate solution that will require many actions from the OP and his wife.


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## Kari (Feb 17, 2012)

Open up now let it all go said:


> What do you mean with degrees?
> 
> I understand the analogy and I don't doubt that it will work to a certain extent but it sounds more like a bandaid to mask the problem than a real solution.


I think the bigger problem is the OP's low testosterone, and the weight is a smaller factor in his lack of desire (but still important also). Remember that he said he only was interested every couple of weeks BEFORE her weight gain, starting in the first year of marriage. He said porn 'does nothing' for him. If his W were skinny, maybe he'd be interested once a week instead of once every two weeks.

I'm not talking about waiting until he's in pain with blue balls, but isn't it easier to get aroused if you've gone without for many days? For most people, abstinence lowers your threshold for arousal and increases desire. Maybe you are an HD guy so can't imagine going several days without release. Each guy is different as far as needing release. My LD H does not self-satisfy (not even once in 2012 he tells me) and he only needs release once per week.

Saying 'will shag about anything in near sight' is kind of rude, this is his beloved wife we are talking about, not some overweight stranger he sees in a bar.

I think if you are LD, masturbating can be a big part of the problem (whereas for some HD people it is not a problem). If you are LD, it will drain what little desire you have. It becomes a habit to just do that instead of approaching your spouse so you never really build up your desire. The OP has said he sometimes takes care of his annoying morning erection when he's trying to get ready for work. I'm not a guy so I don't know, but couldn't he just leave it alone and it would go away by itself in a while while he's driving to work, or when he walks out the door and starts walking? If the erection is that persistent, maybe he should have had sex with his W the previous night.

Perhaps they should figure out a way to have morning sex that works for both of them. I personally don't like immediate morning sex, but would like it after I've been up and around for 30-45 minutes, had my coffee, etc.. I don't really like to do it with a sleepy lying-down husband, or without brushing our teeth. But if we set our alarm early and were up and about for a little while first, then I would like it. The OP's W didn't want to feel like he was only having sex because of his morning erection. So maybe they could arise earlier, move about for a while, then have sex.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

> I think there are a few reasons why my losing weight isn't terribly important to my wife:
> 
> 1. She's been brainwashed by truly obese women into believing that getting fat is inevitable for women, and that trying to stay slim for a man is sick.


Not true and why does she think it's sick? 



> 2. She's understandably afraid that if she tried to lose weight to please me that it might not be enough and that it wouldn't lead to any improvements in our sex life. If she kept on trying, it could spiral into an eating disorder, damaged self-esteem, and all sorts of other problems.


So she'd rather stay fat than to even TRY to see if it would work. And I'm trying not to laugh at her fears of losing weight leads to an eating disorder. 



> 3. At some level she might be humiliated and and angry that she doesn't have sex as leverage in her marriage the way most women do. She might feel like weight is the only leverage she has for getting what she wants and be afraid to give that up.


But doesn't she realize if she lost the weight she'd have the sex leverage? I know I got it back in my house when I lost weight.



> 4. I think she has some common misconceptions about weight loss, e.g., that it's physically harder for women than men, that having babies makes it harder, that it's harder for older people than younger people, that if you're already active then doing disciplined exercise will either not do anything at all or else turn you into a rake, etc.


Again not true. I've had 3 kids and I'm a size 4 (my size 10's had just stopped fitting when I decided to lose weight - I was 43 at the time). I'm now 46 and perimenopausal. 

Her thinking is seriously flawed....she thinks exercise will either do nothing or make you a rake? Really? These are the only two possibilities? It sounds to me like she's holding onto the fat as if her very life depended on it. Sad.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

rabbit75 said:


> Just to clarify the picture of my wife a little... She does walk quite a bit (she's never had a driver's license, we live near a train station and mostly use it for transportation), she does normally restrain herself with food, and she doesn't seem to be on any upward weight trend from two or three years ago. She also watches a movie on the exercise bike every now and then when she feels like getting some exercise. A few anecdotes I've told may have given the impression that she's always shoveling down candy while she sits in front of her computer all day. As I mentioned, my mother is visiting at the moment, and she does appear to handle the unusual stress by eating the junk my mom brings from the US (I get stressed out to, but I've trained myself to be repulsed by junk and shovel down apples and oranges instead). I'm not making any excuses--I just don't want to leave any inaccurate impressions.
> 
> I do think attempting to get prescribed testosterone supplements is a good idea (I don't think it's quite as easy as in the US though), but I'm undecided on the ethics of using that as a bargaining chip for my wife losing weight. On the one hand, she expects me to just accept any fat she gains "as the way she is", and low testosterone (if it is in fact low) is just the way *I* am. In fact, I have less control over my testosterone levels than she does over her fat levels. While I do it because I enjoy the challenge, by doing 300lb squats and nearly 400lb deadlifts a few times per week, I'm already doing all I can to naturally boost testosterone levels for an average-sized guy.
> 
> ...


After reading this & your original post, I've come to the conclusion that your wife is happy NOW with her weight for WHATEVER REASON. You are going to have to come to terms with that by accepting it for your own emotional health. This does not mean you have to LIKE IT.

Maybe in the future, she will want to lose weight. We all get that you are less attracted to her. When my husband put on weight, he wanted to lose it so was open to discussing it. I don't remember if you have said to her that you are less attracted to her because of her weight gain & what her response was.

Good luck.


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

Kari I can't be feel that you put all the responsibility on the husband in your post. He's not attracted to his wife. She's not really trying to make him attracted to her. It sounds like you think he has to initiate, workout with her, do things to make himself have sex with her, and genuinely make all the sacrifices. You mentioned that the woman should be made to feel loved and desired and then she may put some effort in weight loss. But that's not guaranteed. She could just continue to get what she wants from the relationship and never really put any effort into the weight loss. When the husband brings up the subject she could then say that we have sex and romance so you wanting me to lose weight is a form of abuse. Or whatever excuse she wants to use to continue to be lazy. He should be meeting her needs in HOPES that she meets his. That gives the woman all the power in the relationship. Awesome. Also, to the OP. In all honesty I don't think you are LD. I think you are just not physically attracted to your wife. I'm sure you can imagine women in your head that you could frequently have sex with. You wife's body and attitude turn you off. 

I'm curious Kari. Do you think the man is solely responsible for making everything better in the marriage? Do you think the man should genuinely be more selfless than the woman?


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Emerald said:


> After reading this & your original post, I've come to the conclusion that your wife is happy NOW with her weight for WHATEVER REASON.


Sadly I agree with this.


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## Open up now let it all go (Sep 20, 2012)

Kari said:


> I think the bigger problem is the OP's low testosterone, and the weight is a smaller issue (but still important also). Remember that he said he only was interested every couple of weeks BEFORE her weight gain, starting in the first year of marriage. He said porn 'does nothing' for him. If his W were skinny, maybe he'd be interested once a week instead of once every two weeks.
> 
> I'm not talking about waiting until he's in pain with blue balls, but isn't it easier to get aroused if you've gone without for many days? For most people, abstinence lowers your threshold for arousal and increases desire. Maybe you are an HD guy so can't imagine going several days without release, but this doesn't appear to be a problem for the OP. Each guy is different as far as needing release. My LD H does not self-satisfy (not even once in 2012 he tells me) and he only needs release once per week.


I think you're very much underestimating how much effect a severe lack of attraction can have on both partners on the relationship. A testosterone boost and/or more sex is definitely not a bad thing but it certainly is not going to help how OP feels about his wife nor is it going to fix the tremendous self-esteem issue his wife is going to have to cope with if she ever finds out (if she already doesn't because from what I understand people are usually very well aware of these matters but in deep denial).

Anyhow the whole scala of approaches and tiny steps added together from page 1 and 2 seems like a real step in the right direction.


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## IndyTMI (Oct 26, 2012)

Mavash. said:


> So she'd rather stay fat than to even TRY to see if it would work. And I'm trying not to laugh at her fears of losing weight leads to an eating disorder.


I think if you have no thyroid problem or other physical health issue, I see the fact she is overweight as a form of eating disorder...as she doesn't know when to stop.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

IndyTMI said:


> I think if you have no thyroid problem or other physical health issue, I see the fact she is overweight as a form of eating disorder...as she doesn't know when to stop.


My mother was obese. She was an emotional eater and she used her weight to punish my dad (passive aggressive and largely subconscious). Before you think this has ANYTHING to do with the OP I should mention my dad was a destructive narcissist. If I was married to him I'd be fat too. LOL


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## Kari (Feb 17, 2012)

FalconKing said:


> Kari I can't be feel that you put all the responsibility on the husband in your post. He's not attracted to his wife. She's not really trying to make him attracted to her. It sounds like you think he has to initiate, workout with her, do things to make himself have sex with her, and genuinely make all the sacrifices. You mentioned that the woman should be made to feel loved and desired and then she may put some effort in weight loss. But that's not guaranteed. She could just continue to get what she wants from the relationship and never really put any effort into the weight loss. When the husband brings up the subject she could then say that we have sex and romance so you wanting me to lose weight is a form of abuse. Or whatever excuse she wants to use to continue to be lazy. He should be meeting her needs in HOPES that she meets his. That gives the woman all the power in the relationship. Awesome. Also, to the OP. In all honesty I don't think you are LD. I think you are just not physically attracted to your wife. I'm sure you can imagine women in your head that you could frequently have sex with. You wife's body and attitude turn you off.
> 
> I'm curious Kari. Do you think the man is solely responsible for making everything better in the marriage? Do you think the man should genuinely be more selfless than the woman?


No, I don't like his W's attitude about her weight at all. It is a problem for the whole family, for her long-term health, their sex life, and their marriage. She needs to change. She is not putting in effort and it angers me to read that.

But the OP is here and she is not. He has a problem too, his low testosterone. He needs to address that, and he just avoided it for years. He said he was only interested every couple weeks since the first year of their marriage BEFORE she gained the weight. He also said he tested low for testosterone. Sounds like he has been LD for a long time, but it is true that her weight makes him less attracted. OP, maybe you can tell us - were you ever physically attracted to your wife, or not ever very much? What about in long term relationships before your W if there were any, how often did you want sex (especially after the excitement of newness wore off)?

They both need a 2x4 (or kick in the pants) in my opinion. I'm speaking more about what he can do since he is here and asking for advice and willing to try, not because I think he has more responsibility. She should work equally hard to change, but he can't control her, only himself. Also, too many of you other posters are just sympathizing with him about the fat problem and forgetting he was LD before she got fat. Well I'm not letting him off the hook for his part of the problem. I have an LD husband too, so the case of a guy with low T not getting treated hits VERY close to me, it is a hot button. I am very thin and underweight except for not having a flat stomach, any weight I gain goes only to my tummy and no where else. I've never been overweight but I have friends and relatives who are large have a very difficult time losing weight. They've been that way for years despite great effort and I'd hate to think their H neglects them sexually because of it.

Yes, it would be preferable and more fair if the OP's wife would go on a diet and exercise without his help, without the OP cooking for her or dragging her out for walks. Yes, it is her responsibility to make it happen, and not his. However, let's be realistic, that isn't happening. I don't think it is likely to happen, left only up to her. Right now he is a lot wiser as far as health than she is. I think for most people, habit is a huge factor. Once you get used to eating healthy or moving your body every day, you would get to like it. If he could manage to get her out for a daily walks, I think she'd eventually like it and want to walk faster and longer, maybe even start jogging, hopefully without needing him to initiate it. If he managed to find healthy snacks or meals she liked, maybe she'd start buying/making them for herself as a new habit. If she lost some pounds, I bet she would be excited about it and want to lose more. Success breeds success. I think right now she might be depressed and thinking she would fail at losing weight if she tried. She needs to have some small success (in weight loss) to boost her mood and confidence that she can do this, and perhaps he can help. Of course it would be best if he didn't need to do these things and yes, it is not his responsibility, but I'm not sure there is hope of her changing otherwise, based on her attitude now. 

He's already not giving her sex more than every couple weeks and he already told her he would be more interested if she lost weight, and that hasn't motivated her to lose weight. He is definitely not meeting her needs now. What do you suggest he do - cut her off even more? I get the vague impression from his posts that he really isn't affectionate very often or loving to her (e.g. spontaneous hugs/kisses just because, words of affection, compliments, date nights), but maybe I'm wrong.


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## Kari (Feb 17, 2012)

Open up now let it all go said:


> I think you're very much underestimating how much effect a severe lack of attraction can have on both partners on the relationship. A testosterone boost and/or more sex is definitely not a bad thing but it certainly is not going to help how OP feels about his wife nor is it going to fix the tremendous self-esteem issue his wife is going to have to cope with if she ever finds out (if she already doesn't because from what I understand people are usually very well aware of these matters but in deep denial).


The OP said he didn't want sex more than every couple of weeks since the beginning of their marriage, before she gained the weight. He says 'porn does nothing' for him. Maybe he married someone he wasn't attracted to? I'd like to hear what he was like in other relationships.

I think you are underestimating what testosterone does to a sex drive. I've read from some other posts here, that getting T shots can make all the difference in the world (for some men, not all of course). None of us really knows how much the fat matters vs. the testosterone, but which of these is easiest to fix? Which of these can the OP more easily act upon?


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## Open up now let it all go (Sep 20, 2012)

Kari said:


> The OP said he didn't want sex more than every couple of weeks since the beginning of their marriage, before she gained the weight. He says 'porn does nothing' for him. Maybe he married someone he wasn't attracted to? I'd like to hear what he was like in other relationships.
> 
> I think you are underestimating what testosterone does to a sex drive. I've read from some other posts here, that getting T shots can make all the difference in the world (for some men, not all of course). None of us really knows how much the fat matters vs. the testosterone, but which of these is easiest to fix? Which of these can the OP more easily act upon?


I understand that lack of sex due to low testosterone can be a detrimental problem in a relationship. Especially if it has affected you personally, you have my sympathies.

But you said:



Kari said:


> I think the bigger problem is the OP's low testosterone, and the weight is a smaller factor in his lack of desire (but still important also).


And that's where my response comes from. I don't know whether the attraction problem is smaller, bigger or equally weighing in this matter but I do know that they're are both glaring problems.

Btw, I might be wrong on this but the OP stated that his testosterone levels are on the lower side of the normal ranges. I would think that if it's still in the normal range then his sex drive should be rather normal as well. Perhaps a bit low compared to the average man but definitely higher then every couple of weeks. The very low sex drive is a problem here, lack of testosterone might be the cause but it could be something else. 

What we do know for sure is that there's a serious problem with attraction and that's why I put more focus on it. If his relatively low testosterone levels are bringing sex frequency back to such low levels than it should ofcourse be treated as another priority problem.


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## Kari (Feb 17, 2012)

Open up now let it all go said:


> I don't know whether the attraction problem is smaller, bigger or equally weighing in this matter but I do know that they're are both glaring problems.


OK, I agree. Both are glaring problems. We don't (and even the OP doesn't) know for sure which is a bigger problem right now, so I shouldn't have assumed which problem is bigger. But it sounds like the LD problem came first, before the weight gain. And the testosterone problem might be easier for the OP to address. 



> the OP stated that his testosterone levels are on the lower side of the normal ranges. I would think that if it's still in the normal range then his sex drive should be rather normal as well. Perhaps a bit low compared to the average man but definitely higher then every couple of weeks. The very low sex drive is a problem here, lack of testosterone might be the cause but it could be something else.


The problem is that even the medical experts disagree on what T level is 'normal' vs. 'low'. For total T, some say 400 ng/dl is a cutoff, some say 300 ng/dl, and some say 150 ng/ld. Different standards bodies publish different recommendations on this. For the endocrine society, I think they now say 300 ng/dl morning total T. But each man is different. One guy might have a good libido at 350 ng/dl, but another guy not. I think it is wrong to only look at one number (especially if it is in the low range), and not also consider the guy's symptoms. Lab reports only mark you as abnormally low if you are in the lowest 2.5 percentile. So if his T is 5th percentile, he doesn't get treated, and his wife still suffers. Many doctors are afraid to treat because of some older misinformation about prostate cancer associated (it is complicated and T isn't as dangerous to the prostate as was earlier thought). Also, T therapy has a bad reputation because some guys abuse it to build muscle.

Testosterone levels vary quite a bit day to day. If a man gets his T tested at the same exact time in the morning on different days, one day it might be 500 ng/dl, another day it might be 400 ng/dl. In addition, the accuracy of the test is only plus or minus 50 ng/dl. I think if a man has libido problems and is testing in the low range, several tests should be taken on different days, and free (unbound) testosterone should be checked, not just total T. It is important to get enough sleep on the night before the test, else the number might be lower than usual.

My H's morning T tested at 300 ng/dl, somewhere around the 5th percentile for adult men, half the average level for his age, lower than the average for 80 year old men. He doesn't have spontaneous or morning erections, doesn't masturbate, and has no spontaneous desire, doesn't think about sex, but he does have responsive desire if I touch him if he's given about 4 days in between. If my H doesn't have sex for my sake, he says he'd ideally prefer 7-10 days in between (although it was 2-3 weeks in between before he gave up masturbating completely). His doctor tells him he is 'normal' because he didn't meet the 2.5 percentile cut off. It is frustrating because I don't think my H will ever feel spontaneous desire for me again unless he gets treated.

From what I've read, many men have libido issues if their average morning level falls below 400-450 ng/dl (if he is not sick and has gotten enough sleep), but each man is unique.

OP - what are your morning total and free T levels? Did you ever use anabolic steroids in the past? Did you ever have a major injury to the head or testicles? These things can cause low libido.

It could be something factoring in besides T level. Some men have an estrogen or prolactin level that is too high. Some men have a pituitary issue that can be corrected with surgery. It would be best to get a complete hormonal panel (test).


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## rabbit75 (Jan 7, 2013)

All I know about my testosterone level is that it was described as "at the low end of normal" by an endocrinologist in the US in early 2003. Because I had already tried a bunch of medication for depression without success, they prescribed testosterone supplements to see if it had any effect. It may have had a small effect, but I moved to Australia and got married shortly after that. For the sake of getting a permanent resident visa, I did not pursue any treatment for depression in Australia (having medical problems of any kind greatly complicates immigration to Australia).

We had never seen each other in person for more than a few weeks at a time before we got married (and only a couple months total), so we had no idea there would be a difference in our sex drives. I honestly don't remember how often we had sex back then. I know we sometimes had sex a few days in a row, but we also probably had no sex for a few weeks at a time during a depressive slump. An average of once every two weeks (26 times a year) seems a bit low to me (my guess would be more like 40), but having a monthly hormonal cycle probably makes it easier to keep track, so I'll take my wife's word for it. Whatever the number really is, the bottom line is that she's obviously very unsatisfied with our sex frequency.

Yes, I was physically attracted to my wife from the first time I saw photos of her (we met on an email discussion list in 1998) and met her in person, and I was still equally attracted to her when we got married. I still am physically attracted to her. My desire for her to get in better shape is that I believe (but can't prove, of course) that it would significantly amplify the attraction.



Kari said:


> OP - what are your morning total and free T levels? Did you ever use anabolic steroids in the past? Did you ever have a major injury to the head or testicles? These things can cause low libido.


I have never taken any steroids and have never had any head or testicle injuries.



Kari said:


> Perhaps they should figure out a way to have morning sex that works for both of them. I personally don't like immediate morning sex, but would like it after I've been up and around for 30-45 minutes, had my coffee, etc.. I don't really like to do it with a sleepy lying-down husband, or without brushing our teeth. But if we set our alarm early and were up and about for a little while first, then I would like it. The OP's W didn't want to feel like he was only having sex because of his morning erection. So maybe they could arise earlier, move about for a while, then have sex.


I've suggested exactly this to my wife, which she isn't crazy about, but I think I'll push for it more the next time there's been a lapse in us having sex because of my sleep problems (I go to bed quite early when I'm recovering from insomnia).



Kari said:


> The OP could do the shopping and buy healthy food, learn new healthy recipes, and cook them for the family. Experiment with recipes to find some low-carb, Mediterranean diet meals and healthy snacks she likes. Even if she doesn't like many fruits and vegetables, there have to be some she likes. She needs to wean her tastes away from the sweets and shouldn't base her meals on carbs. Getting the kids used to healthy food will benefit them too.


My wife and I only cook healthy meals already, and I leave healthy snacks like almonds and raisins (which she likes) around the house. The difference in our diets is mainly in drinks (I don't drink much besides water and milk), chocolate and spontaneous eating of things we're offered or given by friends or outside our house. She just seems to have a hard time turning down novel goodies.



FalconKing said:


> Also, to the OP. In all honesty I don't think you are LD. I think you are just not physically attracted to your wife. I'm sure you can imagine women in your head that you could frequently have sex with. You wife's body and attitude turn you off.


Actually, very few women trigger sexual fantasies for me. I like looking at attractive women (though I don't seem to be anywhere near as observant as most men I know), but the attraction usually isn't accompanied by a desire to have them the way it seems to be for most men. This is going to sound corny, but I have to get to know women a bit before I start lusting after them. I could never have sex with a stranger, no matter how attractive.


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## Oatmeal (Mar 30, 2012)

Getting your T checked could be beneficial to your weight training as well.


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## rabbit75 (Jan 7, 2013)

Here's the photo my exercise bike/computer setup that Kari asked for:









http://imgur.com/Un4N0hB


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