# When does it become emotional infidelity?



## Heartacher (Feb 22, 2016)

A few months ago my wife mentioned that a guy she had known at school had contacted her through her LinkedIn profile. She said she had been friends with his sister then and had gone out with him once, and wondered why he was contacting her. I wondered too. She showed me his email and eventually replied to him. I thought nothing much about it then, but from time to time she mentioned he had been in touch again and told me rough details about his emails. She even talked to him on FaceTime from our home while I was there. It all seemed OK. My wife's job takes her away from home and sometimes overseas from time to time for up to 2 weeks at a time and she is away at present. When she left she took her MacBook but forgot her iPad. She has always depended on me to keep her software updated and to sort out her IT problems as she is pretty useless with computers, so I took the opportunity to update her iPad software while she wasn't using it. While doing this I noticed she had an awful lot of emails in her box (she doesn't use the iPad for emails, but they were in "The Cloud" and appearing on the iPad) so I decided to see if I could tidy it up. To my surprise there were a lot of emails going back months between her and this guy - big long emails - mainly talking about what they were doing etc, but I was surprised to find he addressed her as My Dearest, or Dearest and signed off with Lots of Love xxx, and she in turn reciprocated in much the same manner. Furthermore he had been sending her music in his emails and she had been copying extracts of poetry to him in hers. There was no overtly sexual content but often very friendly content verging on the intimate. They had also exchanged information about family matters. 
To say I was surprised would be an understatement, because although she didn't conceal the fact that they were occasionally in touch, she gave me no inkling of the frequency, content or degree of the contact. 
I feel particularly sensitive about the issue because I caught her out in an affair with a co-worker 12 years ago when I accidentally came across suggestive texts on her cellphone. It took ages to get her to admit there was anything going on then , even when I could prove that they were texting several times every day, and I had to go to great lengths to get proof. We managed to sort that out and I regained my trust, but now I find her indulging in an online conversation with an old flame that she only tells me a few details about. Am I being overly suspicious? Is this what is described these days as "Emotional Infidelity"? How do I tackle the issue? I love her and I know she loves me, but I feel our marriage is becoming vulnerable now and I don't want to stand by and see it disintegrating.


----------



## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Sounds like an emotional affair that will most likely turn physical (if it hasn't at some point already), especially given her history. 

Given she has cheated in the past, curious why you thought Facetime with a guy was in any way a good idea? Why would anyone think Facetiming with someone of the opposite sex was ok??? People do not share music, write poetry, sign "Lots of Love" with random people unless there is something else there.

If she loves you she would have never let this guy in her life in the first place, especially after cheating on you already. She is cheating on you AGAIN.


----------



## z_man (Nov 1, 2013)

Heartacher said:


> To my surprise there were a lot of emails going back months between her and this guy - big long emails - mainly talking about what they were doing etc, but I was surprised to find he addressed her as *My Dearest, or Dearest and signed off with Lots of Love xxx, and she in turn reciprocated in much the same manner*. *Furthermore he had been sending her music in his emails and she had been copying extracts of poetry to him in hers. There was no overtly sexual content but often very friendly content verging on the intimate. They had also exchanged information about family matters. *
> 
> I feel particularly sensitive about the issue because I caught her out in an affair with a co-worker 12 years ago when I accidentally came across suggestive texts on her cellphone. It took ages to get her to admit there was anything going on then , even when I could prove that they were texting several times every day, and I had to go to great lengths to get proof. We managed to sort that out and I regained my trust, but now I find her indulging in an *online conversation with an old flame that she only tells me a few details about.* Am I being overly suspicious? Is this what is described these days as "Emotional Infidelity"? How do I tackle the issue? I love her and I know she loves me, but I feel our marriage is becoming vulnerable now and I don't want to stand by and see it disintegrating.


This qualifies as an emotional affair. You are not being "overly suspicious."


Printout all the damaging emails, order them in not so bad to wtf. Contact a lawyer and have divorce/separation papers drawn up and ready for her to sign. Get all the information you can on this guy, especially his wife/gf's contact info.

Set her down with the emails and the divorce papers and ask her to explain. As she DARVO's you, produce more damaging emails until she either leaves or admits. 

She ends all contact with this guy and goes to counseling, or she signs the papers.


Decide were your boundary is for you staying married to this women.

Two times caught cheating, how much is enough?


----------



## BlueWoman (Jan 8, 2015)

As I was reading my first thought was..."If you are uncomfortable with this, then that's all that matters. Tell your wife and she understand and pull back." 

And then I read that she had an affair before...and this becomes a much bigger deal. You're wife has issues with appropriate marriage boundaries. Whether it's physical or not doesn't matter, she is being emotionally intimate with another man. Nip it in the bud. You are not over reacting.


----------



## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Was her first affair physical ? How did you "sort it out" ? How was it left ? Did she ever face any consequences ?

And I agree with EllisReading - how can any kind of contact with any OM on FaceTime etc be OK with you given her past behaviour ?


----------



## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

You wife has already cheated on you with one OM.

Now she is having a relationship with another OM, and yes this is an EA? married women do not get to have secret relationships with other men, and 90% of this relationship has been a secret.

I hope you know where the hell this guy lives, and if he is within driving distance you better assume they have met up.


----------



## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

manfromlamancha said:


> And I agree with EllisReading - how can any kind of contact with any OM on FaceTime etc be OK with you given her past behaviour ?


I am still trying to wrap my head around this part. IDK, maybe I am alone in this thinking. I have complete trust of my wife, never had a reason to doubt her. If she ever asked to facetime some guy, not only would that not happen, but even asking for this would be a huge red flag that would likely head down an ugly road ... I'd probably throw on a wig and Facetime the guy as my wife just to f$ck with him as well lol.

Would anyone here think it appropriate for your SO to facetime an OS "friend"?


----------



## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Heartacher said:


> To my surprise there were a lot of emails going back months between her and this guy - big long emails - mainly talking about what they were doing etc, but I was surprised to find he addressed her as My Dearest, or Dearest and signed off with Lots of Love xxx, and she in turn reciprocated in much the same manner. Furthermore he had been sending her music in his emails and she had been copying extracts of poetry to him in hers. There was no overtly sexual content but often very friendly content verging on the intimate. They had also exchanged information about family matters.


This sounds very much like the correspondence I have going currently with a man, via email and text and occasionally on the telephone. Nothing overtly sexual. Just loving, caring exchanges of ideas, feelings, pictures, music, etc. between us that allows us to keep in touch with one another and engaged in each other's lives. 

That man is my _boyfriend_. Just as the man your wife is corresponding with is _her_ boyfriend. I'm an unmarried woman, so me speaking this way to my boyfriend is a good thing. Do you think it's a good thing that your wife is speaking to her boyfriend that way? How about the fact that she's been lying to you about him and their relationship? 

This is way past anything that might be deemed innocent. Your wife is having an affair - emotional or otherwise, who knows. The salient point is that she's cheating on you. Again.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Eh... it's already there, which makes her a serial cheat.

When's the divorce?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Heartacher said:


> She said she had been friends with his sister then and had gone out with him once





Heartacher said:


> To say I was surprised would be an understatement, because although she didn't conceal the fact that they were occasionally in touch, she gave me no inkling of the frequency, content or degree of the contact.


 How do you know that she had gone out with him only “once” back before she met you? Just like she has downplayed her current contact with this other man (“OM”) in order to get you to be OK with her being in contact with him today, she would also want to downplay her past romantic relationship with him for the very same reason. Most couples have a boundary against keeping in contact with anyone that you have ever dated in the past. You need to enforce this common marital boundary and reasonable ask her to cut all contact with this OM immediately. 



Heartacher said:


> To my surprise there were a lot of emails going back months between her and this guy - big long emails - mainly talking about what they were doing etc, but I was surprised to find he addressed her as My Dearest, or Dearest and signed off with Lots of Love xxx, and she in turn reciprocated in much the same manner. Furthermore he had been sending her music in his emails and she had been copying extracts of poetry to him in hers. There was no overtly sexual content but often very friendly content verging on the intimate. They had also exchanged information about family matters.


 These are the very same types of written conversations that I had with my wife before we were married and continue to have today, including the fact that we almost never talk about sex in our writings. These are not the types on conversations that a married person should be having with an opposite sex friend (“OSF”), especially an OSF that you have ever dated in the past. This is double true when you add in the fact that she has cheated on you in the past. Your wife knows this, which is why she has kept you in the dark on the extent of her developing intimate relationship with this OM. Again, demand full no contact with this OM. You need to also demand full transparency (including all passwords) without complaint going forward.


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Sorry, but this is an affair. She knows it, too, or she wouldn't be downplaying it the way she is.

You should confront her and when she claims that they are 'just friends,' insist that she read 'Not Just Friends' by Shirley Glass.

If the two of you want your marriage, she has to break off contact with him immediately and agree to complete transparency with you.


----------



## Heartacher (Feb 22, 2016)

He seems to divide his time between Romania, UK & Ireland - nowhere near where we are at present, or where my wife travels to at present. I don't think there has been any actual physical meeting yet, although I am aware that it could happen if I do nothing.


----------



## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

manfromlamancha said:


> Was her first affair physical ? How did you "sort it out" ? How was it left ? Did she ever face any consequences ?
> 
> And I agree with EllisReading - how can any kind of contact with any OM on FaceTime etc be OK with you given her past behaviour ?


So was her first affair physical and how did you deal with it ?


----------



## Heartacher (Feb 22, 2016)

manfromlamancha said:


> Was her first affair physical ? How did you "sort it out" ? How was it left ? Did she ever face any consequences ?
> 
> And I agree with EllisReading - how can any kind of contact with any OM on FaceTime etc be OK with you given her past behaviour ?


I caught her out the first time after months of monitoring her phone bills (which I managed to get online), planting a GPS device in her car and bugging her car. I eventually caught a sex-talk phone call from her to him and recorded it. She then admitted it had become a physical affair. I pushed her into getting a new job away from him - and in fact, in a different country to boot. We talked it through and she admitted it was the worst mistake she had ever made. We had no counselling though - perhaps we should have. It took a long time to rebuild trust, and I thought we had got there after 11-12 years!I bought all the books on the subject but she was very unwilling to read them.


----------



## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Serial cheater wife.

12 years ago?

And now today with the "old friend" from school???

Time to start sleuthing, checking cell phone records... and more importantly ask yourself, "Can I REALLY live like this?? Constantly checking over my shoulder with an adulterous wife (EA or PA, it's all the same!)...

Does it really matter if she f*cked him? All that really matters is she wants to.

Your trust for her is not warranted... she is not into YOU. She is into OTHER MEN.

Sorry you are here...


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Heartacher said:


> He seems to divide his time between Romania, UK & Ireland - nowhere near where we are at present, or where my wife travels to at present. I don't think there has been any actual physical meeting yet, although I am aware that it could happen if I do nothing.


 And you know every time and everywhere he has traveled how? If he traveled to see your wife when she was traveling, do you really believe that either he or your wife would have told you? When your wife was in her last affair, did she and her lover tell you before you found out about the affair when and where they met each time?


----------



## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

This suggests that there may have been other "dalliances" in this 12 year period. She has never really been remorseful just sorry that she got caught! And yes - you caught her! She didn't feel sorry and confess on her own.

And the same for this time again. As I said, and who knows how many times in between.


I think you know what you need to do but are just putting it off because its hard to deal with.


----------



## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

manfromlamancha said:


> This suggests that there may have been other "dalliances" in this 12 year period. She has never really been remorseful just sorry that she got caught! And yes - you caught her! She didn't feel sorry and confess on her own.
> 
> And the same for this time again. As I said, and who knows how many times in between.
> 
> ...


Yup, that is my sense as well. I would be shocked if she has not had any sort of affairs in between her first one 12 years ago and now. 

Maybe she figured with this one by being "transparent" about this guy she could coax you into somehow letting your guard down? It still seems odd that she would have even mentioned anything to you in the first place.


----------



## Heartacher (Feb 22, 2016)

Thanks so much for your replies. It has confirmed what I was pretty sure about i.e.that this was an emotional affair. I didn't think I was being paranoid or controlling and your responses have given me the confidence to proceed. I'm going to have to face her with this. I know it will be unpleasant, but I can't just do nothing.


----------



## Heartacher (Feb 22, 2016)

TRy said:


> And you know every time and everywhere he has traveled how? If he traveled to see your wife when she was traveling, do you really believe that either he or your wife would have told you? When your wife was in her last affair, did she and her lover tell you before you found out about the affair when and where they met each time?


You're quite right. I can't be sure. It's almost laughable but this guy has just got engaged to be married again (3rd time I believe - I wonder why his previous relationships broke down)


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Heartacher said:


> A few months ago my wife mentioned that a guy she had known at school had contacted her through her LinkedIn profile. She said she had been friends with his sister then and had gone out with him once, and wondered why he was contacting her. I wondered too. She showed me his email and eventually replied to him. I thought nothing much about it then, but from time to time she mentioned he had been in touch again and told me rough details about his emails. She even talked to him on FaceTime from our home while I was there. It all seemed OK. My wife's job takes her away from home and sometimes overseas from time to time for up to 2 weeks at a time and she is away at present. When she left she took her MacBook but forgot her iPad. She has always depended on me to keep her software updated and to sort out her IT problems as she is pretty useless with computers, so I took the opportunity to update her iPad software while she wasn't using it. While doing this I noticed she had an awful lot of emails in her box (she doesn't use the iPad for emails, but they were in "The Cloud" and appearing on the iPad) so I decided to see if I could tidy it up. To my surprise there were a lot of emails going back months between her and this guy - big long emails - mainly talking about what they were doing etc, but I was surprised to find he addressed her as My Dearest, or Dearest and signed off with Lots of Love xxx, and she in turn reciprocated in much the same manner. Furthermore he had been sending her music in his emails and she had been copying extracts of poetry to him in hers. There was no overtly sexual content but often very friendly content verging on the intimate. They had also exchanged information about family matters.
> To say I was surprised would be an understatement, because although she didn't conceal the fact that they were occasionally in touch, she gave me no inkling of the frequency, content or degree of the contact.
> I feel particularly sensitive about the issue because I caught her out in an affair with a co-worker 12 years ago when I accidentally came across suggestive texts on her cellphone. It took ages to get her to admit there was anything going on then , even when I could prove that they were texting several times every day, and I had to go to great lengths to get proof. We managed to sort that out and I regained my trust, but now I find her indulging in an online conversation with an old flame that she only tells me a few details about. Am I being overly suspicious? Is this what is described these days as "Emotional Infidelity"? How do I tackle the issue? I love her and I know she loves me, but I feel our marriage is becoming vulnerable now and I don't want to stand by and see it disintegrating.


*Then I pose one very important question to you, and you be the one to answer your very own query:

Did she willingly share any of the content of any of those emails with you immediately after transmitting it? Did she deceptively hide the crux of the truth from you? 

Then the answer is more than obvious ~ you are the unwitting victim of an EA and she is the subject of accountability!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

For me, infidelity starts when the lying starts.

It can be lies of omission to outright lying.

So she's already in an EA. And this isn't her first affair.

Which means this is going to be very tough to recover from. I won't lie to you -- I probably wouldn't bother.

Right now, at this very moment, back everything up somewhere safe that can't 'dissapear'. All the emails and data. Write down a timeline that you understand. You already have the smoking gun.

Sit her down. Ask her what her feelings are for this guy. She will say she doesn't have any most likely.

Ask her if she loves him. Even just as a 'friend'. If she says no, then say you know that they've been in lots of contact, and they've been sharing intimate details about your life, and telling each other that they love each other. And then get a lawyer, because you're done - she's flat out lying to you. For the second time, and who knows how many others.

If she says yes, decide if you want to try to reconcile. It will all be contingent upon her understanding boundaries, and that she did something wrong. I won't lie to you buddy, but this is a tough slog. Especially if there was no sex or romance.

But no mistake, EAs that aren't PAs are often harder to get over than PAs. Because the perpetrators can always try to say it was all innocent, which makes it all worse.


----------



## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

I think it's time to let her go. SHe cheated once before and this would undoubtedly been a second time had you not found out about it when you did. She doesn't love you if she's doing this again to you. It's time to find someone who understands marital boundaries.


----------



## Heartacher (Feb 22, 2016)

EllisRedding said:


> Yup, that is my sense as well. I would be shocked if she has not had any sort of affairs in between her first one 12 years ago and now.
> 
> Maybe she figured with this one by being "transparent" about this guy she could coax you into somehow letting your guard down? It still seems odd that she would have even mentioned anything to you in the first place.


I honestly think she was bemused at first as to why he should contact her at all. I thought it was a bit odd too, but I'm a trusting (?naive) sort of guy.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Have you heard of Pre-Diabetes?

It's a medical condition which, if they don't catch it early enough, can turn into Type 2 Diabetes.

An Emotional Affair is a medical condition called Pre-Physical Affair.

If they don't catch it early enough it become a Physical Affair. Sorry.


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Oh, and when you have that conversation, do not disclose how you know what you know.

That will only allow her to try to turn the tables on her as an invasion of privacy. Just say you know everything.


----------



## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

Sorry you are here my friend.

I have to ask you,where do you live ? I am from EU to my friend and you can visit half of the countries in one day. 
You can go there on a business trip or anything else,it is up to you to chose. And what is the best noone will know,you can tell all sort of lies. When I was in UNI I used to travel to Amsterdam just to "relax" and then go back. It was 2:30h in one direction.

I am telling you this because you said your wife travels a lot. There is a lot of opportunities for her to cheat,especially because she did it 12 years ago and LIED to you about it. You literally had to show her pictures and text and you never went to MC,which is really bad.

She is lying to you once again my friend. I would Divorce her,because she is really serial cheater. 

OM and his sister have to go from your life and she lied ONCE AGAIN about their history. She said she was with him only once but if you look at those text there is a lot more.

Stay strong my friend.


----------



## Lilac23 (Jul 9, 2015)

Heartacher said:


> A few months ago my wife mentioned that a guy she had known at school had contacted her through her LinkedIn profile. She said she had been friends with his sister then and had gone out with him once, and wondered why he was contacting her. I wondered too. She showed me his email and eventually replied to him. I thought nothing much about it then, but from time to time she mentioned he had been in touch again and told me rough details about his emails. She even talked to him on FaceTime from our home while I was there. It all seemed OK. My wife's job takes her away from home and sometimes overseas from time to time for up to 2 weeks at a time and she is away at present. When she left she took her MacBook but forgot her iPad. She has always depended on me to keep her software updated and to sort out her IT problems as she is pretty useless with computers, so I took the opportunity to update her iPad software while she wasn't using it. While doing this I noticed she had an awful lot of emails in her box (she doesn't use the iPad for emails, but they were in "The Cloud" and appearing on the iPad) so I decided to see if I could tidy it up. To my surprise there were a lot of emails going back months between her and this guy - big long emails - mainly talking about what they were doing etc, but I was surprised to find he addressed her as My Dearest, or Dearest and signed off with Lots of Love xxx, and she in turn reciprocated in much the same manner. Furthermore he had been sending her music in his emails and she had been copying extracts of poetry to him in hers. There was no overtly sexual content but often very friendly content verging on the intimate. They had also exchanged information about family matters.
> To say I was surprised would be an understatement, because although she didn't conceal the fact that they were occasionally in touch, she gave me no inkling of the frequency, content or degree of the contact.
> I feel particularly sensitive about the issue because I caught her out in an affair with a co-worker 12 years ago when I accidentally came across suggestive texts on her cellphone. It took ages to get her to admit there was anything going on then , even when I could prove that they were texting several times every day, and I had to go to great lengths to get proof. We managed to sort that out and I regained my trust, but now I find her indulging in an online conversation with an old flame that she only tells me a few details about. Am I being overly suspicious? Is this what is described these days as "Emotional Infidelity"? How do I tackle the issue? I love her and I know she loves me, but I feel our marriage is becoming vulnerable now and I don't want to stand by and see it disintegrating.


Are you sure it's not the same guy she had the first affair with?


----------



## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

Heartacher said:


> I caught her out the first time after months of monitoring her phone bills (which I managed to get online), planting a GPS device in her car and bugging her car. I eventually caught a sex-talk phone call from her to him and recorded it. She then admitted it had become a physical affair. I pushed her into getting a new job away from him - and in fact, in a different country to boot. We talked it through and she admitted it was the worst mistake she had ever made. We had no counselling though - perhaps we should have. It took a long time to rebuild trust, and I thought we had got there after 11-12 years!I bought all the books on the subject but she was very unwilling to read them.


Lost amoung the likely significant amount of spon-on advice you have and will receive I just want to highlight something which you cannot lose track of:

Your wife is currently in an affair. Period.


----------



## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

Heartacher said:


> You're quite right. I can't be sure. It's almost laughable but this guy has just got engaged to be married again (3rd time I believe - I wonder why his previous relationships broke down)


It is CRITICAL that you find out who his fiance is. When you confront your wife and demand unconditional no contact, before she's had a chance to let her boyfriend know to start covering his tracks you NEED to provide this poor woman all of the emails.

It is beyond critical, she's about to get married to this guy. And you can't let them have time to build a cover story.


----------



## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

Don't worry about how many times he has been married !

Your problem is your wife and be prepared for bull **** when you confront her. And do not underestimate where this guy travels to or can . If he is doing all this travel he has plenty of frequent flyer miles .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Blacksmith01 (Aug 12, 2013)

Burn him and her to the ground.


----------



## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

It would seem you are living in a soap opera. Could we have some basic info. 

Apx age
How long married 
Children
Income parity 50/50? You 45 her 55 ? 
State of intimacy?
What type of shape or you two in. 
How did she show remorse the last time?
What are the divorce laws like where you live. 


The good news is she is away. Use this time to calm and prepare yourself


----------



## Heartacher (Feb 22, 2016)

I was married to my late wife for 22 years and had 4 children with her (all middle aged people now). I met my current wife 28 years ago and have been married for 25 years. She was divorced with 2 children who are now in their 30s. I am now retired but my pension is a little higher than her current salary. She is 58 and 14 years younger than I am. We are still physically intimate although I now have to resort to PD5 inhibitors (e.g. viagra). We are both in good health (if that's what you meant by "shape"). She was remorseful following her first affair and I am pretty confident there has been no other straying until now. We live between England and continental Europe and would be subject to the laws of England which is our domicile


----------



## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Ok, so at a guess you were married early twenties, widowed early forties. Perhaps remarried mid forties to a woman who was 30 or late twenties with two small children. 

So was she married when you meet her. Did she cheat with you or someone else while married ? Why did she divorce? 
I know I am pushing for a lot of info, but it will help establish a better foundation to help you. And yes sow of these questions are a two edge blade.


----------



## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

One other question: how will your estate be handled in event of divorce. 
One comment: talking about their relationships is a huge issues. Was either negative at all about you or his GF ?


----------



## Sparta (Sep 4, 2014)

You going to try to fix this.? why.? I know you're sitting there with all sorts of uncertainty having thoughts racing through your head, thinking I'm too old to find someone new, all sorts of fears going through you it's devastating... But you know just as well as anyone here what's going on and that the only right action you need to do. Be true to yourself stop with any delusions. Before she gets back is have divorce papers waiting for her. Because you know what's going to happen she's going to deny all the same crap that she did before. Why even put yourself through that.? If you read other threads on here The guys that divorced their wives right from the D-day, usually handled the situation better on their terms. Most of the BH's that filed for divorce have better outcome. Now that doesn't mean you have to divorce, but it usually smacks the affair fog right out of them. Sorry for your situation good luck do the right thing and you know that it
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

happy as a clam said:


> Does it really matter if she f*cked him? *All that really matters is she wants to.*


A powerful thought-provoking comment. At what point do thoughts & desires become equivalent to actions?

Thanks for posting.


----------



## Heartacher (Feb 22, 2016)

JohnA said:


> Ok, so at a guess you were married early twenties, widowed early forties. Perhaps remarried mid forties to a woman who was 30 or late twenties with two small children.
> 
> So was she married when you meet her. Did she cheat with you or someone else while married ? Why did she divorce?
> I know I am pushing for a lot of info, but it will help establish a better foundation to help you. And yes sow of these questions are a two edge blade.


Yup! On the nail! She cheated with me while she was still married. I was still reeling from my first wife's sudden death, leaving me with 4 teenagers, and she came on to me. She was (and still is) a stunner. Makes you think doesn't it


----------



## Heartacher (Feb 22, 2016)

Sparta said:


> You going to try to fix this.? why.? I know you're sitting there with all sorts of uncertainty having thoughts racing through your head, thinking I'm too old to find someone new, all sorts of fears going through you it's devastating... But you know just as well as anyone here what's going on and that the only right action you need to do. Be true to yourself stop with any delusions. Before she gets back is have divorce papers waiting for her. Because you know what's going to happen she's going to deny all the same crap that she did before. Why even put yourself through that.? If you read other threads on here The guys that divorced their wives right from the D-day, usually handled the situation better on their terms. Most of the BH's that filed for divorce have better outcome. Now that doesn't mean you have to divorce, but it usually smacks the affair fog right out of them. Sorry for your situation good luck do the right thing and you know that it
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That pretty well sums up my plan.


----------



## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

AWESOME plan then. If you do that you will be so far ahead of the curve relative to others in the same unfortunate position as youreef


----------



## Heartacher (Feb 22, 2016)

JohnA said:


> One other question: how will your estate be handled in event of divorce.
> One comment: talking about their relationships is a huge issues. Was either negative at all about you or his GF ?


Point 1: We have home in UK. Both our names are on the mortgage. Neither of us will be able to pay the mortgage on our own, so it will have to be sold. She will hate that! She LOVES the house! - and so do I, for that matter.
Point 2: No. Their discussions and comments about their partners are all kind and loving He asks after my health and she asks after his GF's wellbeing. I think they're both living in cloud cuckoo land. I think they both think it's OK to have a secret relationship with a member of the opposite sex while in a committed relationship with someone else! My wife asked him in one email if his GF was OK with them having this (as she described it herself) "intense relationship" She implied that I was OK with it (I didn't even KNOW about it). I noticed though, that he dodged the question - simply saying that he & his GF were "solid" - not that she was OK with it! I would bet any money on her being as unaware as I was!


----------



## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

Heartacher said:


> That pretty well sums up my plan.


It gets harder to pull the plug the older we get

*But there are so many nice women out there who would love to meet a nice guy its sad*

In your younger days the decision would have been easier, still as painful but the block of a partner for your retirement years is strong

I couldn't live with some one who cheated as my mind isn't capable of forgetting what affairs partners would have been doing and talking...

*No matter how hot she was*

Maybe its a ***** in my personality..... I like to think its my moral fiber


----------



## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

Oh just saw your reply since I posted so scrub the talking

Makes me think if this wasn't her first time though as she cheated with you and its seems her M.O.

Tell his G.F please


----------



## 5Creed (May 29, 2011)

You are correct. His GF knows NOTHING about their exchanges. Believe nothing that comes out of your wife's mouth when she gets home. I am sorry for both you and his GF. Do as some others say and find out who this GF is and let her know. At least she isn't married yet to this person having such deep intimate I love you conversations with your wife. Sorry you are here~


----------



## Sparta (Sep 4, 2014)

Hey OP when does she get home.? What do you have planned.? Or do you have a plan or you just going to tell her are you going to have all your ducks in a row I would have divorced papers for her. Have you been in contact with her since she's on her trip. 

Remember keep posting here you will lots of people here helping you walk through this, you don't have to do this alone. And please keep updating us as much as you can. We also would like to see how you're dealing with this nightmare, also to see you're well being. Remember don't listen to her lies
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Heartacher said:


> *She cheated with me* while she was still married. I was still reeling from my first wife's sudden death, leaving me with 4 teenagers, and she came on to me. She was (and still is) a stunner. Makes you think doesn't it


Not much to think about OP. She cheated with you, and on you. That shouldn't be unexpected. You got hit by the Karma bus 12 years ago and now again. No telling how many times you didn't catch her.


----------



## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

Affairs dont begin in the bedroom. They begin with conversations, coffee dates, etc.

But you already know that. 

Your wife has previous form on this matter yet you allow her to conduct facetime chats, and emails with another man.

Man up and do what needs to be done.

Clamp down on this hard and fast and offer up some real time consequences for her actions.


----------



## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Heartacher,

So what was the cost to your W of her first affair? Was the first OM exposed to his W? When affairs are rugswept they tend to recur. 

There is also an issue that technically you are in an affairage, a marriage which began as an affair, which are difficult to make work.

If you intend to stay long term a polygraph is in order. Frankly your W sounds like a serial cheater, which is a very different person from an accidental cheater. 

Tamat


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Heartacher said:


> Yup! On the nail! She cheated with me while she was still married. I was still reeling from my first wife's sudden death, leaving me with 4 teenagers, and she came on to me. She was (and still is) a stunner. Makes you think doesn't it


Cheating wife cheats on new husband... w/ whom she cheated while still married to her first husband?

Doesn't sound very stunning at all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Heartacher (Feb 22, 2016)

G.J. said:


> Oh just saw your reply since I posted so scrub the talking
> 
> Makes me think if this wasn't her first time though as she cheated with you and its seems her M.O.
> 
> Tell his G.F please


I would if I could but I have no way of finding out her full name, where she lives or even where he lives! He seems to live in at least 3 different countries!


----------



## Heartacher (Feb 22, 2016)

TAMAT said:


> Heartacher,
> 
> So what was the cost to your W of her first affair? Was the first OM exposed to his W? When affairs are rugswept they tend to recur.
> 
> ...


Yeah. I've never felt good about being the man she latched onto as her marriage was falling apart apart. However, I don't think I was responsible for the break-up. I just happened to meet her then, but I must have accelerated the collapse. I'm realising now though that she is exhibiting what has to be seen as a trait. I think she needs the excitement and buzz of a new relationship now and again and finds it hard to stay the course in a long relationship. So, she was married 7 years to husband No 1 and then had an affair. Had an affair 12 years into relationship with husband No 2, and is now onto 2nd affair at the 25 year stage with husband No 2.


----------



## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

Heartacher said:


> Point 1: We have home in UK. Both our names are on the mortgage. Neither of us will be able to pay the mortgage on our own, so it will have to be sold. She will hate that! She LOVES the house! - and so do I, for that matter.
> Point 2: No. Their discussions and comments about their partners are all kind and loving He asks after my health and she asks after his GF's wellbeing. I think they're both living in cloud cuckoo land. I think they both think it's OK to have a secret relationship with a member of the opposite sex while in a committed relationship with someone else! My wife asked him in one email if his GF was OK with them having this (as she described it herself) "intense relationship" She implied that I was OK with it (I didn't even KNOW about it). I noticed though, that he dodged the question - simply saying that he & his GF were "solid" - not that she was OK with it! I would bet any money on her being as unaware as I was!


Well the kicker is going to be do you want to live like this for your retirement years looking over your shoulder and checking as that's
what you most certainly would have to do if you stay

Or do you go full on and D as it seems with out much prompting from our end its a "trait" you correctly i.m.o. said

The big factor is at the minute it seems..SEEMS...its only online but as you said she travels, so unless you go with her its going to 
happen with a hook up

If your deciding on either I would say nothing at the minute and carefully monitor

If you can afford it enquire to a Private Investigation company if it would be possible to get his name and address and his wife's and 
the cost and give them information you currently have
Obviously this is a last resort

If you can contact her all may be revealed if you can actually speak to her...but her first reaction may be to confront her soon to be 
husband in which case you will have to be prepared to confront at that time 

When is she due to travel again

What devices does she own..phones, laptops etc..


----------



## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Heartacher said:


> I think she needs the excitement and buzz of a new relationship now and again and finds it hard to stay the course in a long relationship.


Bingo!


----------



## Heartacher (Feb 22, 2016)

G.J. said:


> Well the kicker is going to be do you want to live like this for your retirement years looking over your shoulder and checking as that's
> what you most certainly would have to do if you stay
> 
> Or do you go full on and D as it seems with out much prompting from our end its a "trait" you correctly i.m.o. said
> ...



Thanks. She's in South East Asia at the moment and emailed him from the First Class lounge at London Heathrow on departure! She has a Macbook, Windows laptop and cellphone with her! She uses her MacBook for personal emails and it hasn't dawned on her yet that they all appear on her iPad at the same time - hence my knowledge of things. On the surface she is still the same loving wife that I adore. She wants this guy and his future wife to visit us at our home. I would have been OK with that if I had been part of the relationship from the start, but if he came near our home now I think I would assault him! I'm still considering my options so I'm keeping quiet for now. I want to talk about this rather than jumping straight to divorce Tracing him and his fiancee would be expensive He hops between UK, Ireland, Romania and South America!


----------



## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

Exposure will be the only (real) way to stop it, so if it's expensive just ask yourself what is worth spending your money on?

The way that you actually talk about it is by ending it first. Otherwise you'll waste a significant amount of time arguing, fighting in order to end it. And by then you may be torched.

If you end it now not only do you obtain your primary goal of getting out of infidelity as fast as possible but you rip the proverbial band-aid. She'll be pissed but atleast from moment one of discussions she will be referencing you and her, not her and her boyfriend and the inconvenience of you.


----------



## Sparta (Sep 4, 2014)

I don't know why you would even think about reconciliation... That sh!ts crazy... Come on you can stand being Plan B, I don't think so... Read the other threads that BSs have been most successful in dealing with wayward wive's. Go see a lawyer you have to divorce this and then go from there first you have to expose the affair to everybody you know. and you have to let his fiancé know about her POS. If you have divorce papers for her when she gets back it quickly snapped her out of the fog... OK you get it.? By doing this it gives you the power back and if she wants to reconcile you can force her into signing prenup that will save your pension whatever you ask for. Now this will only work if she wants to reconcile, most likely she probably will because once you exposed the affair, and because you (exposed the affair to his fiancé) this will pretty much destroy that fantasy relationship and her POS Will be in his own damage control. Please for your sake take the right action. If you do not protect yourself from that evil your wife has brought into your marriage. Remember does not have your best interest she does not respect you she does not love you. Your someone she puts up with while she waits for her make-believe fantasy relationship becomes reality. She does not love you.! She is a serial cheater POS just like he is... I hope you do the right thing
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Heartacher said:


> Yup! On the nail! *She cheated with me while she was still married.* I was still reeling from my first wife's sudden death, leaving me with 4 teenagers, and she came on to me. She was (and still is) a stunner. Makes you think doesn't it


So this sounds like Karma striking again. In your grief, you contributed to destroying another family but it doesn't sound like you go much of a prize.

With a wife that travels, I would NOT be confident that OM didn't fly to hook up with her at one of her meetings. I also agree that it's highly unlikely that she hasn't cheated during you 25 years of marriage. Many people who do a lot of traveling for work are known to have a lot of ONS in their history.

Best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. A woman that was willing to cheat on her long term husband and father of her children should NEVER be a keeper. I don't care how loving, hot in bed, or easy on the eyes she is, it makes her STR material only.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Ellis Reading said:

Yup, that is my sense as well. I would be shocked if she has not had any sort of affairs in between her first one 12 years ago and now. 

Maybe she figured with this one by being "transparent" about this guy she could coax you into somehow letting your guard down? It still seems odd that she would have even mentioned anything to you in the first place. 
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


She has invited the OP to visit you guys [really--> her]. If the GF comes, so much the better. Having a women with him will make him less threatening to [soon to be BS] and will give needed cover to her real ambitions. If she has not already met up with him [since High School] then any Skype or FaceTime or email encounters will be re-met in the real flesh. She is ever so clever.


----------



## Heartacher (Feb 22, 2016)

marduk said:


> Oh, and when you have that conversation, do not disclose how you know what you know.
> 
> That will only allow her to try to turn the tables on her as an invasion of privacy. Just say you know everything.


I'm afraid there's no believable explanation for how I found out without telling her. I know, they'll likely just carry on the affair but be more careful to hide their tracks. Anyhow, she's still overseas and we won't have more than 2 days together at any one time until Easter. I'm going to have to keep my powder dry till then.


----------



## Heartacher (Feb 22, 2016)

Rowan said:


> This sounds very much like the correspondence I have going currently with a man, via email and text and occasionally on the telephone. Nothing overtly sexual. Just loving, caring exchanges of ideas, feelings, pictures, music, etc. between us that allows us to keep in touch with one another and engaged in each other's lives.
> 
> That man is my _boyfriend_. Just as the man your wife is corresponding with is _her_ boyfriend. I'm an unmarried woman, so me speaking this way to my boyfriend is a good thing. Do you think it's a good thing that your wife is speaking to her boyfriend that way? How about the fact that she's been lying to you about him and their relationship?
> 
> This is way past anything that might be deemed innocent. Your wife is having an affair - emotional or otherwise, who knows. The salient point is that she's cheating on you. Again.



I've just discovered a bit more about him & her. I was puzzled as to how the affair lit up so fast. I've found out they had an affair 28 years ago, when she was married to her first husband and before she met me. The OM actually referred to me by her first husband's name in one of the emails!


----------



## Heartacher (Feb 22, 2016)

TRy said:


> And you know every time and everywhere he has traveled how? If he traveled to see your wife when she was traveling, do you really believe that either he or your wife would have told you? When your wife was in her last affair, did she and her lover tell you before you found out about the affair when and where they met each time?


The answer to both questions is "No"


----------



## Heartacher (Feb 22, 2016)

eric1 said:


> It is CRITICAL that you find out who his fiance is. When you confront your wife and demand unconditional no contact, before she's had a chance to let her boyfriend know to start covering his tracks you NEED to provide this poor woman all of the emails.
> 
> It is beyond critical, she's about to get married to this guy. And you can't let them have time to build a cover story.


I've managed to find out out where his fiancee lives. He asked my wife to friend him on Facebook as he has just started using it. I found the fiancee on his Facebook page (not listed as his fiancee, but just a friend - but I know it's her. I found both their names at the same address on the Electoral Register).They seem to have been living together for a few years, although he seems to work overseas a lot. I have saved printouts of all the communications (email and WhatsApp) they have had since it started, except for FaceTime contact. If I have to I will let her have them.


----------



## Heartacher (Feb 22, 2016)

TAMAT said:


> Heartacher,
> 
> So what was the cost to your W of her first affair? Was the first OM exposed to his W? When affairs are rugswept they tend to recur.
> 
> ...


Polygraphs aren't much used (if at all) in UK. There was no real cost to her apart from embarrassment at being found out. We talked about it, she apologised. She found another job in a different country under pressure from me so she was separated from the AP. We rebuilt our life (I thought)


----------



## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

Doesn't look good at all from what you have typed

Polygraphs are used more and more in the U.K. there no longer just the domain of Jeremy Kyle

With what you have, you could try a forced confrontation making her believe you know more than you 
do and as a last resort if you don't think you get the truth have a polygrapher ready to do the testing

They are not 100% reliable but a good one will be in the 90% range and a lot of people tend to give 
what they call! a 'car park confession' just before getting out when it hits them your going through with it


----------



## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

As a side note I confronted with no proof...and was lucky ? to get the full story but I did have input from a guy who knew what he was doing

If your interested I can send you a P.M. telling you what I've advised a few on here in the same position if you want to use a similar way

You have to be very confidant to do it


----------



## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

Heartacher said:


> She wants this guy and his future wife to visit us at our home.


I haven't seen an updated list lately, but encouraging your significant other to befriend the affair partner as a ruse is still one of the major red flags, right? Top 10 easy.


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Heartacher said:


> I'm afraid there's no believable explanation for how I found out without telling her. I know, they'll likely just carry on the affair but be more careful to hide their tracks. Anyhow, she's still overseas and we won't have more than 2 days together at any one time until Easter. I'm going to have to keep my powder dry till then.


Just refuse to answer.

I mean, she hid the interaction from you, right?

So it's pretty hypocritical to demand how you know what you know without her telling you everything.


----------



## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

marduk said:


> Just refuse to answer.
> 
> I mean, she hid the interaction from you, right?
> 
> So it's pretty hypocritical to demand how you know what you know without her telling you everything.


^^^This

It doesn't matter if you have a "believable" story for how you found out, don't tell her how you found out. Never disclose your informants (or methods for obtaining info). If she asks, tell her you're not going to tell her how, and all that matters is that you did, and that you know.

It worked for me.


----------



## Heartacher (Feb 22, 2016)

G.J. said:


> As a side note I confronted with no proof...and was lucky ? to get the full story but I did have input from a guy who knew what he was doing
> 
> If your interested I can send you a P.M. telling you what I've advised a few on here in the same position if you want to use a similar way
> 
> You have to be very confidant to do it


I'd be interested in what you did.


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

The easiest thing is to say "it doesn't matter who told me and how he got the information." 

She will assume it's a PI. When she keeps asking just tell her it's none of her business and a moot point.

Google serial cheater. They can rarely quit cheating.


----------



## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Heartacher said:


> I've just discovered a bit more about him & her. I was puzzled as to how the affair lit up so fast. I've found out they had an affair 28 years ago, when she was married to her first husband and before she met me. The OM actually referred to me by her first husband's name in one of the emails!


So, she cheated on her first husband at least twice. She's now cheated on you at least twice. Seriously, she's a remorseless serial cheater. Those types of people are just wired wrong. She's never going to stop cheating. Whether it's on you or on someone else, she's just always going to cheat. And while she may say that she's sorry and wants to stop, she's never going to be willing to actually stop. It's just not in her nature to be either faithful or honest about being non-monogamous. This isn't someone who's ever going to be faithful for any length of time. I'm so sorry.

If you aren't willing to simply accept that she's cheating and not let it bother you, then it is probably best to divorce. Because she is going to be cheating on you. It's just who she is.


----------



## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

Hope things are progressing one way or another for you


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Heartacher said:


> I'm afraid there's no believable explanation for how I found out without telling her. I know, they'll likely just carry on the affair but be more careful to hide their tracks. Anyhow, she's still overseas and we won't have more than 2 days together at any one time until Easter. I'm going to have to keep my powder dry till then.


Keep your powder dry. Her face powder will be wet soon from the tears of from getting caught, maybe some of the dampness from remorse.

Do not pull the trigger. You need to uncover this carefully planned future tryst. She is pulling POSOM closer to your periscope, your snoop-the-dog tactics. When he is near, your VAR's will be on "record". You will record the 'bump and grind' and "I missed you, darlings".

The women will likely put the noose around her own neck. 
At this point, how can this* not happen*?

Some TAM members are impatient, some want to halt the train wreck. These kind folks have empathy and a desire for the BS to rescue a flawed marriage.

I come at this differently. You can tell the character of a person by their actions when they think no one is watching. 

I would want to know that the people that I have utmost faith in will have earned that trust. I earn their trust in return.

Be vigilant in this dark, dank and dangerous world!


----------



## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

Heartacher said:


> Yup! On the nail! She cheated with me while she was still married. I was still reeling from my first wife's sudden death, leaving me with 4 teenagers, and she came on to me. She was (and still is) a stunner. Makes you think doesn't it


You are surprised that she cheated on you? She is a serial cheater and you are the OM. You know her playbook. You can decide whether to stay or go.


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Inform his girlfriend!!!!!! Let her know he was a POSOM from her first marriage!!!!! He wants some more of your wife and will get it!!!!she is playing right along. 

Being a past POSOM makes him more dangerous. By calling you by her ex's name he is thinking about that time, maybe even taking her mind back to then by name dropping the ex.


----------



## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Heartacher said:


> Yup! On the nail! She cheated with me while she was still married. I was still reeling from my first wife's sudden death, leaving me with 4 teenagers, and she came on to me. She was (and still is) a stunner. Makes you think doesn't it


It doesn't make me think, it adds another example to the pile. I have too many examples in my own family of "if they'll cheat with you, they'll cheat on you."

Cheating is in her blood. Her affair was no 'mistake' and she'll do it again.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

@Heartacher

Any updates?


----------

