# Issues dealing with Partners past



## petemcr (Aug 7, 2017)

Hi Everyone,

Hope you are all doing well.

I need a little advise if any has any on dealing with a situation, me and my girlfriend got together 7 months ago and have been really happy together, she's told me many times she's not felt like she does with me about anyone else and her friends have all told me she's completely different with me than she has been with previous boyfriends.

All great you'd think, but then we hit a hiccup.

While on holiday for my birthday, I've no idea how but a saved "note" on her phone got sent to me and two of her friends, this was a conversation between her and someone she'd been having a thing with in her work, this turns out to be a Dr from her works who is married and was pretty graphic what they were talking about.

She tried to hide it from me by logging in to my phone and deleting it, when she couldn't get in she just left it, and eventually told me she'd sent it to me, this was talking about one of their meetups in their Gym they both go.

Now, I'm having such a bad time with it, she'd deleted the notes, she said she forget they were on her phone and no idea why she had them saved, she told the guy she was with me and didn't want any more to do with him after he asked why he'd not seen her in the gym, but she was having a thing with him and he told her he was getting a divorce, they stopped when she got with her ex, then started again when her an her ex split up.

My head a bit of a wreck with it all, anyone know what I should do? I want a future with her because we get on so well but it's caused a few discussions, she says she hates herself for it and said she'd completely told me the truth, but I don't believe her.

Any helps would be great


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

petemcr said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> Hope you are all doing well.
> 
> ...


*Please define "having a thing with him!" 

What exactly was the verbiage of the "incriminating text" of hers that accidentally got sent to you?

Better still, perhaps you would be better served in thoroughly examining her composite phone and texting records for several months back to see exactly how long that this clandestine activity of hers has been going on and just who it has been going on with! *


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## petemcr (Aug 7, 2017)

So, the general gist of this was a conversation between the two of them, it looks like about 3 msgs saved one after the other.

To me it looks like she kept it on purpose, it was them fooling around in their gym together and referring back to the previous times, it's pretty grim to read tbh.

I don't want to look through her phone, I don't think it's right, I just want her to tell me the truth but when it gets brought up she gets upset and cries because she says I'm going to leave her.

I am insulted that she tried to login to my phone to hide it as well, whatever her reasons were, I've never tried to get in to her phone because it's private, but the fact she went to these lengths to hide it from me is just insulting in itself.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

petemcr said:


> I am insulted that she tried to login to my phone to hide it as well, whatever her reasons were, I've never tried to get in to her phone because it's private, but the fact she went to these lengths to hide it from me is just insulting in itself.


I recommend you to stay away from the "feeling insulted" part above. That's kind of like an extra unnecessary layer. 

It sounds like what you have learned is that she was willing to have an affair with a married man. But she stopped it whenever she was with someone else. How long ago was it?


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## vauxhall101 (Jul 23, 2017)

petemcr said:


> I don't want to look through her phone, I don't think it's right, I just want her to tell me the truth but when it gets brought up she gets upset and cries because she says I'm going to leave her.
> 
> I am insulted that she tried to login to my phone to hide it as well, whatever her reasons were, I've never tried to get in to her phone because it's private, but the fact she went to these lengths to hide it from me is just insulting in itself.


I agree that that doesn't exactly build confidence that she is being honest with you now. Being "honest" after you've been caught red-handed isn't honesty at all. She engaged in these conversations, and what's more, she kept them, and what's more than that, she tried to cover her tracks by deleting them. You should be insulted that she tried to do this, and her crying that you are going to leave her, although probably genuine contrition, shouldn't affect your decision. She's in the wrong, and she needs to own it. 

If I was you, I might try and get some time away from her, so you can both think about what you want to do. Good luck.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Did this occur before or after you started dating her? Do the messages indicate intent to do "something," and was there follow-through with action, or not? You're post is unclear and lacking a timeline for reference.


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

Forget her past. Your biggest problem is the duplicitous behavior she is showing you TODAY. Do you think this will get better over time? What do you suppose your relationship will look like over the long-term. You can look forward to half-truths, straight up lies, misdirection, willful omissions and more. Is that what you want?

Some things are deal breaker. What she did with your phone would be one for me. Deceit is not a good glue in a relationship.


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## Sparta (Sep 4, 2014)

Wow and we are again another beta guy afraid to look through wife or girlfriend's phone because it's just not right, what about her cheating on you.? What about finding out the truth and protecting yourself... you know people lie especially cheaters right. Hey this relationship is a big part of your life. Forget about this privacy crap 💩 no one else is going to do it for you... she had no problem trying to hack password to get into your phone to delete her Affair.! Funny here you are so adamant about her privacy.


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## petemcr (Aug 7, 2017)

zookeeper said:


> Forget her past. Your biggest problem is the duplicitous behavior she is showing you TODAY. Do you think this will get better over time? What do you suppose your relationship will look like over the long-term. You can look forward to half-truths, straight up lies, misdirection, willful omissions and more. Is that what you want?
> 
> Some things are deal breaker. What she did with your phone would be one for me. Deceit is not a good glue in a relationship.


This is exactly what worries me now, we're talking about having a future together but then I feel like there's this leering over our heads, then I question what if he turns back up, does she have to speak to him in work and if she does will she try to hide it from me.

I'm in a bit of a tough situation, I love her to bits, and I know she loves me. Can people change? Everyones commented about her changing but, do they?


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## Spitfire (Jun 6, 2015)

Unfortunately, while her friends think she has changed since being with you she really hasn't. Her recent behavior demonstrates this. She's only created a person she thought you would fall for and it worked until her slip up. She really is the person she was before she met you. I'd be thankful you found this out now while dating and not after 2 or 3 years of marriage. I'd walk away from this relationship. I think you'll find that in a short time she'll go back to her old ways and you'll know you made the right decision.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

Career woman here, 59 years old, married 37 years (first time for both of us). You've heard of the question, "Does a leopard change its spots?". Your girlfriend has not changed. She's gotten better in her ways. If you cannot accept her behavior of cheating, move on and save yourself the heartbreak. Life's journey is a long and hard road. There are many challenges ahead and you don't want a partner who can't carry her weight. Worse yet, is the realization that you have lost your way.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

It makes a big difference if this was a past relationship or an affair....


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Past is past...but it is also a indicator of a persons moral code. That also can change, and improve, but it is still something that happened.

Are you upset about the part that she was fooling around with a married man, or are you upset that she had a certain connection with him that you feel is similar to what she says she has only had with you? Or both? I am unclear on what you are having trouble dealing with. 

I feel for you. I too have trouble dealing with my spouses long resume before me. I have to work very hard to try not to think about it or bring it up, because it only serves to upset me, and there is NOTHING either of us can do about it. His stuff isn't questionable, for me it's just the quantity that is astounding.


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## petemcr (Aug 7, 2017)

Roselyn said:


> Career woman here, 59 years old, married 37 years (first time for both of us). You've heard of the question, "Does a leopard change its spots?". Your girlfriend has not changed. She's gotten better in her ways. If you cannot accept her behavior of cheating, move on and save yourself the heartbreak. Life's journey is a long and hard road. There are many challenges ahead and you don't want a partner who can't carry her weight. Worse yet, is the realization that you have lost your way.


She hasn't directly cheated on me, as far as I'm aware and she has sworn she never would because of how she feels about me, I mean I've spoken with her folks and even they have said she's never been this way with previous relationships


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## Deperatedwoman (Jul 31, 2017)

vauxhall101 said:


> I agree that that doesn't exactly build confidence that she is being honest with you now. Being "honest" after you've been caught red-handed isn't honesty at all. She engaged in these conversations, and what's more, she kept them, and what's more than that, she tried to cover her tracks by deleting them. You should be insulted that she tried to do this, and her crying that you are going to leave her, although probably genuine contrition, shouldn't affect your decision. She's in the wrong, and she needs to own it.
> 
> If I was you, I might try and get some time away from her, so you can both think about what you want to do. Good luck.



Exactly


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

petemcr said:


> This is exactly what worries me now, we're talking about having a future together but then I feel like there's this leering over our heads, then I question what if he turns back up, does she have to speak to him in work and if she does will she try to hide it from me.
> 
> I'm in a bit of a tough situation, I love her to bits, and I know she loves me. Can people change? Everyones commented about her changing but, do they?


You seem hesitant to answer the question when did this affair take place,was it years or months ago.I believe that if someone is trying to put their past behind them then they should be given the opportunity to do so.Her trying to log onto your phone was probably her trying to delete something then she is ashamed of.
The biggest problem in my opinion is her refusing to discuss the matter,for all you know it may be an ongoing affair.Her turning on the waterworks is just her way of deflecting your questions.Explain to her how frustrating this is for you,not knowing is she even been faithful to you and insist on full disclosure.
I don't agree with other posters that she is playing a role,she may have played hard in the past but now has met "the one" and is terrified of losing you.
Just my opinion.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

petemcr said:


> She hasn't directly cheated on me, as far as I'm aware and she has sworn she never would because of how she feels about me, I mean I've spoken with her folks and even they have said she's never been this way with previous relationships


People don't cheat when they are in deep love with someone, and of course she will tell you she would never cheat on your because of how she feels about you (today !!!!...this moment) the point that many are saying here, is not that you have to worry about her today or 2 months from now or perhaps 2 years from now its that is it in her behavior to do it...that is that point...its a red flag...so whether you chose to do something about it is your business...but what you have discovered is a warning.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Even if she loved someone else in the past as much as she loves you, it doesn't take away from her feelings for you. 

Why such a need for her to have extra special, never before, feelings for you? 

My bf had been married and divorced before. I'm sure he loved her massively. He wanted to spend the rest of his life with her. 
It doesn't mean he doesn't now love me. There's nothing taken away from how much he loves me just because he had also loved someone else before.


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## m00nman (Nov 29, 2014)

zookeeper said:


> Forget her past. Your biggest problem is the duplicitous behavior she is showing you TODAY. Do you think this will get better over time? What do you suppose your relationship will look like over the long-term. You can look forward to half-truths, straight up lies, misdirection, willful omissions and more. Is that what you want?
> 
> Some things are deal breaker. What she did with your phone would be one for me. Deceit is not a good glue in a relationship.


Exactly. She owes it to you to respect your property since you are not married yet.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Im confused... why were these old notes being sent to anyone in the first place? This man still works with her? She sounds like a cheat to me... seeing a married man, then getting with another man and dumping him, then getting back with him... I think you would to well to move along from this this woman.


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## petemcr (Aug 7, 2017)

3Xnocharm said:


> Im confused... why were these old notes being sent to anyone in the first place? This man still works with her? She sounds like a cheat to me... seeing a married man, then getting with another man and dumping him, then getting back with him... I think you would to well to move along from this this woman.


This happened prior to me getting with her, so she'd gone back to this guy after she split with her Ex and was still seeing him while she met me, then she told him she didn't want any involvement with him after that. I have no idea why she was sharing them, she was talking to a friend at work who also knows him about "**** boys" and why not to bother with them, then some how I got the msg, her story was she didn't know how it happened, she was leaning on her phone and some how it got sent to me, she showed me the convo with her mate but she'd deleted everything they'd said prior so, I assume they were discussing him and she was sharing it with her for whatever reason. She swears that she wasn't sharing it to anyone though.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

petemcr said:


> She hasn't directly cheated on me, as far as I'm aware and she has sworn she never would because of how she feels about me, I mean I've spoken with her folks and even they have said she's never been this way with previous relationships


What does "She hasn't directly cheated on me" means?

Either she cheated since you have been in a committed relationship or she has not. Which is it?

From what I've read so far, she has not cheated on you.

She had an affair with a guy who told her he was getting a divorce. A lot of people date while getting a divorce. It depends on how far the divorce process has progressed on whether or not he was cheating on his wife.

what it sounds like to me is that she had some old messages on her phone and she accidently sent one of them to you. That's not cheating.

On the topic of her not deleting old messages. I seldom delete any calls or texts on my phone. I probably have years of message on it.

I also of not delete emails.. I just move them to a backup folder. Why would I waste my time deciding which to keep and which to throw away.

So I don't find her not deleting old messages to be much of a red flag.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

petemcr said:


> This happened prior to me getting with her, so she'd gone back to this guy after she split with her Ex and was still seeing him while she met me, then she told him she didn't want any involvement with him after that. I have no idea why she was sharing them, she was talking to a friend at work who also knows him about "**** boys" and why not to bother with them, then some how I got the msg, her story was she didn't know how it happened, she was leaning on her phone and some how it got sent to me, she showed me the convo with her mate but she'd deleted everything they'd said prior so, I assume they were discussing him and she was sharing it with her for whatever reason. She swears that she wasn't sharing it to anyone though.


So she has not cheated on you.

You do not want her looking at your phone and are very upset about her touching your phone. Meaning that you want 100% privacy when it comes to who you talk to and text, and what you say to them.

She was warning a friend about what amounts to predators at work. It seems like she was warning her friend about this doc. And in this accidently sent a message to you.

Again she is not cheating on you. But you do not respect her privacy to the extent that you expect her to respect your privacy. You are demanding from her information about her past, before the two of you were in a committed relationship. You are also demanding information about current interactions with another woman, to the extend of even wanting to see the texts/msgs on her phone.

You are off base here. If you want her info about what's on her phone, you have to let her have access to your phone as well.

If you want her to delete all old texts from her cell phone and other electronic devices, you need to delete all of yours as well. If you want her to delete photos of old boyfriends, you need to delete every photo you have of old girlfriends. Everything you demand from her, you must do as well.

If you do not trust her, then end your relationship. She cannot prove that she is not cheating. it's not possible to prove that kind of negative.

One thing you need to keep in mind about the responses you are getting on this thread is that 9 times out of 10, the posters on this forum will start accusing a wife/gf of cheating. That's the go-to approach here. So the fact that they are telling you that she's cheating, etc, etc is a predictable knee jerk reaction.

You have provided no info here that indicates that she's cheated on you.

ETA: You could always just let this drop and keep an eye on her for a while to see if she is cheating. But if you do this, be careful that you do not get sucked into spy hell and become a controlling bf who monitors her every move.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

was she "warning" this friend about the guy or was she gloating about the size of his junk and talking about the things he can do with his tongue?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

oldshirt said:


> was she "warning" this friend about the guy or was she gloating about the size of his junk and talking about the things he can do with his tongue?


Wow, just wow.

Do you really assume that anytime a woman talks about a guy that's what they talk about? It might come as a surprise to you but most women do not talk like that about men they have had relationships with.

Do you talk like that about women you have had relationship with when you are talking to a male friend? Is that why you think she'd be talking like that? Just wondering where you get this idea from.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

There's nothing here indicating she has cheated on Pete.

This isn't really even one of those insecurity attacks that some guys get when they find out their GF isn't an innocent and pure virgin. 

I think what this is is that Pete has built her up as this perfect, flawless Madonna in his mind and now he has found out the she gets it on in gym locker rooms with married men and then try to hack his phone to cover it up. 

In other words, he's discover she isn't perfect and isn't the perfect angel of his dreams..... That she is human. 

I think his core concern is that she is not what she has been presenting herself to be and I'm concerned that his concern is valid.

He has mentioned a number times that her friends and family have been stating she is 'different' with him. 

That can be positive because sometimes people can bring out the best in us and make try a little harder.

But there is a point of concern as well. ....is it just an act and is she portraying herself as something she is not????

If someone has spent their life as a bank robber, and they get with a new GF/BF and their friends note that they haven't to be any banks since they've been together - does that mean they are now a great person and everyone lives happily ever after???

I don't have the answer to that and neither does Pete. I suspect that is why he is here telling this story.

Nothing he has said here indicates direct evidence of her cheating on him. But there are certainly some red flags and warming signs about her character.

I think he needs to bring this angel down off her cloud of purity and start seeing her as a flawed human like the rest of us.

I also think he needs to take off the rose tinted glasses and start looking at her through a more clear and focused lens. 

I'm not saying to dump her over this or jump to any conclusions that she is cheating on him.

But I do think he has just cause to be concerned and some probable cause to start watching things a little more closely and and a lot more objectively.

I think he is realizing she may not be what she has been portraying herself and I would support this realization.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

So, she works with her ex lover? Is that the gist of this story?

And he's married?

I think that while the past is the past, the fact that she may still work with this guy, doesn't really make it 'the past.' Secondly, if she was willing to have an affair with a married guy, you have to ask yourself if that's also what's bothering you. 

I'm not certain if she is still working with this guy, it just sounds like that from what you're saying, though.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Sleeping with people isn't a negative thing. It's not bank robbing. It's a normal and healthy part of life and relationships. 

You should be hoping your partner has had good and bad experiences because it makes them a better person, makes them know what they want and don't want. What they enjoy and need. 

During my dating I met a man who was "getting a divorce". I asked many times if it was actually done, was she fully aware of the situation, etc. 

Turns out she wasn't. He was still very much married. (I told her once I found out, sent her screenshots, offered to answer any questions and ended all contact with him) 

Doesn't make me a bad person. Or at least anyone who thinks it does doesn't have to date me. I'd prefer they not. I've had flings, ons, relationships of various natures. If it made anyone feel they had to "look at me objectively" as if it were a warning sign of some sort, I wouldnt be with them. 

People live before they meet you. They do things. They have sex. They fall in and out of love with other people.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

petemcr said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> Hope you are all doing well.
> 
> ...


So she was banging a married dude from the gym?

You should dump her.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> Wow, just wow.
> 
> Do you really assume that anytime a woman talks about a guy that's what they talk about? It might come as a surprise to you but most women do not talk like that about men they have had relationships with.
> 
> Do you talk like that about women you have had relationship with when you are talking to a male friend? Is that why you think she'd be talking like that? Just wondering where you get this idea from.


I am assuming nothing. I am asking a very valid question. 

Why should we assume that she was warning this other person about him? Is that not jumping to conclusions as well?

She was involved with a married man and then trying to break into his phone to cover her tracks. Does that not call her character into question enough to warrant asking the question that instead of "warning" about this man, that perhaps she was bragging about him instead?

It is a valid question that deserved to be asked. 

And as a side FYI, yes, I absolutely have heard women talking about men that way. Countless times over many years. Why are you implying that they do not? 

Now I will concede that I haven't heard many women talk that way about their LTRs or husbands so much as they have with hook ups from bar or hook ups with married men. So IMHO if she was having a side fling with some married doctor, it perfectly stands to reason that she may have been gloating to one of her GFs about it. 

Now I have no doubt that she probably told Pete she was 'Warning" her about him. But her credibility and honesty are being called into question here so anything is possible. I was merely asking the question.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Sleeping with people isn't a negative thing. It's not bank robbing. It's a normal and healthy part of life and relationships.
> 
> You should be hoping your partner has had good and bad experiences because it makes them a better person, makes them know what they want and don't want. What they enjoy and need.
> 
> ...


I don't disagree with anything you have said, but let me ask you this - after this happened with the married man, did you try to break into your next BF's phone to try to cover it up and keep him from ever finding out about it? 

I didn't get the impression he was judging her because she had been with other men in the past. 

I'm getting the impression he is starting to wonder if she is who and what she is portraying herself to be with him. 

And when you add things up, I think he has valid reason for looking at things a little closer and with a more objective eye. 

Perhaps it will all wash out that she was duped by a player and that everything is all out of context and is actually all on the up-and-up. But for what info there is available now, I think things do deserve a little more scrutiny.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

If I had to break into my bfs phone he wouldn't be my bf first off. 

No locked phones, nothing hidden. If he/we can't do that before marriage it would never go far enough to get to marriage. 

Secondly, ya if I talked to a friend about a past sexual encounter I had and accidentally sent it to my bf, I would want to delete it. I have a fb group, all women, we discuss sex and partners and best and worst partners. I do not want my bf reading that. He doesn't need to know details and names unless I choose to tell him that. 

He has full access to my stuff, he knows about my girl group, he wouldn't look in it. Girl talk about sex and bfs isn't something he needs to see. 

Likewise I don't want to see him talking to a guy friend about some girl he used to have sex with. 

He could delete those anytime if I got it accidentally sent to me. I know he has a past. It doesn't change his feelings for me. I don't need to hear the details. If I did I wouldn't think less of him but I'd prefer to avoid it and have him just delete it off my phone. 

Oh and I would have no issue keeping it a "secret" that I accidentally slept with a married man. It's not something anyone needs to know. It's my business. I did tell my bf though cause I was being annoying with the "promise you aren't married? Not separated, almost divorced? Nothing like that? For sure? Really sure?" Figured the poor guy deserved to know why


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## petemcr (Aug 7, 2017)

End of the day, I'm not jumping to any conclusions about this now, nor do I plan to, I understand now yea she isn't as perfect as she has made herself out to be, nor am I.

I'm just worried that I am planning a future with her, but now I have seen that she can be deceitful and possibly hide things from me such as this. I mean I told her at the start because of a previous Ex I don't want to be involved with someone with a past like that, maybe because I'd told her this it made her panic.

It's just the holes in the story that bother me, it's a lie then more lies built on top of it, the damage was done and we nearly split up so you think it would be come clean time, she could be trying to protect him. I don't think she has cheated on me tbh, I've just seen the extent she is willing to to hide stuff from me that bothers me, I'd just like an honest open relationship with her, I'd happily let her go through my phone as I have nothing to hide from her.

It's just very confusing right now, I think she has dug herself in to a deep hole and she's still digging and has the potential of messing things up with us, which I do not want.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

petemcr said:


> End of the day, I'm not jumping to any conclusions about this now, nor do I plan to, I understand now yea she isn't as perfect as she has made herself out to be, nor am I.
> 
> I'm just worried that I am planning a future with her, but now I have seen that she can be deceitful and possibly hide things from me such as this. I mean I told her at the start because of a previous Ex I don't want to be involved with someone with a past like that, maybe because I'd told her this it made her panic.
> 
> ...


Honestly, if it's going to be this much of a head case for you, you should just let her go. You'll never stop thinking about it and she'll always feel she has to prove herself to you. That's not a relationship, that's prison for you both of your own making. 

She comes with a past, maybe one that's easy for you or us is to sit behind a computer and judge without scrutinizing our own. 

I have seen many women hide a not so glowing past from good men they love. Although I don't understand it personally as I tell the truth pretty unfailingly and show all my warts, I can understand growing up, life, and not wanting to be judged eternally for poor choices or mistakes in that life. We are constantly experimenting and learning how to behave. This is what makes us human. 

Look at her current behavior. Is it indicative of her past behavior? If yes, let her go. If no, sit down and explain that it's important for you to build a relationship on trust. Tell her that you accept her past for what it is but you need honesty. Her past made her who she is today, so she should confront it and not try to hide it. 

I've made many mistakes and I'm very human. My husband knows everything about me. I wanted a man who lived in reality and could accept a woman who did, too. I've done my learning and I'm as sound as a bell when it comes to boundaries. My husband doesn't have me on a pedestal but he wants to, because despite my past he knows it's what shaped me into who I am today, and he is proud and respectful of that.


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## petemcr (Aug 7, 2017)

Satya said:


> Honestly, if it's going to be this much of a head case for you, you should just let her go. You'll never stop thinking about it and she'll always feel she has to prove herself to you. That's not a relationship, that's prison for you both of your own making.
> 
> She comes with a past, maybe one that's easy for you or us is to sit behind a computer and judge without scrutinizing our own.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the advice, this is where I am at now, I tried to talk to her about it yesterday but she thought I was pointing the finger, I was telling her at the time I just want us to be honest with each other as I'd given us a second chance to work on it.

I'm going to sit down with her face to face and discuss it with her and just say we need to be open and honest with each other if it's going to work and see where it goes from there, it's not fair on either of us if I'm constantly trying to find stuff out and she's constantly trying to hide stuff I guess, it's either we be honest with each other now so I don't feel like I need to check for anything and she doesn't feel like she has to hide anything, I suppose if we can't do that then we're not going to make each other happy.

I just honestly wish it had never happened because we were having such an amazing time together, we work well together and we don't argue, it's just such a stupid thing to break up over.

Thanks everyone for the advice though.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

petemcr said:


> I just honestly wish it had never happened because we were having such an amazing time together, we work well together and we don't argue, it's just such a stupid thing to break up over.


I'm sure many others can relate, but living in the real world means learning that all humans are fallible. We are all imperfect. While you may be missing the ideal of who you thought she was, you are now seeing the reality. You need to decide for yourself whether the real her will be compatible with your needs in a partner. That's a journey only you can take. 

I'd agree, though, that if she can't learn to be honest with you and honest about her past, she should seek therapy, because it will haunt her in other, future relationships if you do not stay with her. I think women are encouraged to rugs weep and deny their pasts, because so much of their "value" is tied to their romantic pasts. Thing is, we can't know what we really want without making some poor choices. Age, experience, wisdom, and core values.... We don't come with those things, they develop.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

For what it's worth in my opinion if she hasn't cheated on you then let this go but make it clear to her it's one time only. 
She tried to hide something from her past which frankly isn't any of your business if it is the past. Can you look in the mirror and say you have nothing in your past you wouldn't like to discuss with her. 
Ask her for full access to her phone and agree to grant her access to yours. You were very happy up until this note appeared on your phone and it seems a pity to throw it all away for what may just be her trying to erase a mistake from her past.


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## petemcr (Aug 7, 2017)

No I know, it's true we all have our own issues and demons, I'm not asking for much in my eyes, just her to be honest about everything and I'll do the same. It's not like I was on a one man crusade to try and find out about her past, I'd never asked anything about it, hell we haven't even discussed partner numbers because in all honesty, I don't care, I was just interested in her and our future together, it's just unfortunate that I'd been dragged in to it which was more than likely due to a conversation with a friend, whatever her reasons were for trying to forward it on. I have told her if there is anything else like this, if anything else comes to light about it then I will more than likely be departing


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

petemcr said:


> This is exactly what worries me now, we're talking about having a future together but then I feel like there's this leering over our heads, then I question what if he turns back up, does she have to speak to him in work and if she does will she try to hide it from me.
> 
> I'm in a bit of a tough situation, I love her to bits, and I know she loves me. Can people change? Everyones commented about her changing but, do they?


No, people rarely change, they either have a good character or they don't. She doesn't.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Sleeping with people isn't a negative thing. It's not bank robbing. It's a normal and healthy part of life and relationships.
> 
> You should be hoping your partner has had good and bad experiences because it makes them a better person, makes them know what they want and don't want. What they enjoy and need.
> 
> ...


Well, the big difference with what the OP has presented and your situation, and one that has been largely overlooked here in the discussion, but that really stood out to me...the girlfriend was with the married man, then stopped because she got a boyfriend, then when she broke up with the boyfriend, she got back with the married man. Once could have been a mistake, twice is intentional. She has no problems being with someone else's husband.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

aine said:


> No, people rarely change, they either have a good character or they don't. She doesn't.


Of course people can change but they have to really want to.Before I met my girlfriend I had a string of ons and short term relationships going back years.From the day I met her I have never inappropriately touched another woman or wanted to.This woman is being judged here for accidentally sending a message to her boyfriend about a previous boyfriend,trying to delete the message but failing.The op has said she has never cheated on him.If he hadn't seen this message he would still be happy with his girlfriend.
I feel sorry for women these days in the dating game.Men want these hot girls who love sex every which way but they also seem to want them to be innocent virgins. 
Doesn't work that way.


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## petemcr (Aug 7, 2017)

samyeagar said:


> Well, the big difference with what the OP has presented and your situation, and one that has been largely overlooked here in the discussion, but that really stood out to me...the girlfriend was with the married man, then stopped because she got a boyfriend, then when she broke up with the boyfriend, she got back with the married man. Once could have been a mistake, twice is intentional. She has no problems being with someone else's husband.


Bingo!

Fine, first time he could lie and say he was getting a divorce, but the 2nd time, I can't see that, she'd have known by then, and she said they were in contact while she was with her ex as "friends".


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

She has a history of attachment with him she hasn't let go... whether it be heart or memory there is something about him she desired to keep.

Have you asked her if she thought being in a relationship with someone who was married impacted her?

Every choice has an effect on us... builds or weakens, that is why the right choices are so important.

She will have to let go of not just the bad choices, but the connections to those bad choices or she will not grow in the good choices with you.

Focus on the judgement shown today aware and honest that we all have a past that bares some regret if we keep acting on it... one can't travel two lives at once, she will have to step away from it to walk with you.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

petemcr said:


> Bingo!
> 
> Fine, first time he could lie and say he was getting a divorce, but the 2nd time, I can't see that, she'd have known by then, and she said they were in contact while she was with her ex as "friends".


As many are fond of pointing out, ones past makes them who they are. Now that you know who she is,will you be able to accept that?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I do not think you are out if line with your concerns. 

I am certainly not on the "dump her!" Bandwagon, nor is there any direct evidence of her cheating on you.

It I do think you need to bring your image of her as a perfect angel down to earth and recognize her as a fallible human like all of us.

I think your desire for her to be open and honest is admirable and necessary. But some times when we have someone on a pedastal, they feel the need to hide there humanness and fallibility and cover up things and in essence make themselves into an untrustworthy person when they really didn't have to in the first place.

In order to get her to be open and honest, you will have to at least allow her to be human.


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## Sparta (Sep 4, 2014)

OP looks like you need to send her on her way. She's showed you herself who she really is and you better believe her. You talked about seeing this relationship and move into a more formal one marriage OK, she auditioned to be your wife.!Looks to me and everyone else here she failed.! next.! You have to look at it this way. she auditioned for the part to be your wife. Then during her audition and she showed a part of her that nobody would want in a partner. You should say no thank you. Tell her that character in question. Then explain she showed you that she is lacking in certain qualities that would make her a good candidate to be your wife. Deception, being dishonest, lack of loyalty, No Integrity, this is enough right to notify her that she has been fired.! I hope to God you get this woman out of your life don't make the wrong decision. I deciding to rugs with this and to move forward with her in your life would be a major mistake.


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## petemcr (Aug 7, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> I do not think you are out if line with your concerns.
> 
> I am certainly not on the "dump her!" Bandwagon, nor is there any direct evidence of her cheating on you.
> 
> ...


So, are you saying if I let her just be herself now it's all out in the open, she'll eventually tell me the truth anyways?


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

No matter what I have done or slept with in my past, and trust me I have not always made good choices. Married man isn't the worst on the list. If it bothered my partner I wouldn't want him to be with me. 

I'm not going to feel guilty or ashamed or somehow less desirable for it. I'd rather find someone who accepts all of me. 

Her hiding it, it wasn't his business to know in the first place. If she wanted to share it with him she would have. It's not hiding and keeping secrets when it's not information for him. She was telling a friend. 

This kind of situation is exactly why women hide information from their partners, many can't deal with it. 

I told my bf other of my embarrassing moments and stupid choices. Me having a past doesn't bother him one bit. Other men I've dated didn't get any information because I wasn't sure if they were as confident, open minded and understanding. No one has a right to know the names and details of your sexual history. 

Yes, I have a sexual history and no I don't have any stds is all any partner needs to know. If they need to know who, what, when, where then that should all be done in the first few dates so if she doesn't want to answer those questions you both walk away. It's up to her what information she gives.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

petemcr said:


> So, are you saying if I let her just be herself now it's all out in the open, she'll eventually tell me the truth anyways?


The truth always has a way of coming out, and that's the tricky thing with the past being the past...The past always has a way of revealing itself, often times in the most inconvenient ways.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> No matter what I have done or slept with in my past, and trust me I have not always made good choices. Married man isn't the worst on the list. If it bothered my partner I wouldn't want him to be with me.
> 
> I'm not going to feel guilty or ashamed or somehow less desirable for it. I'd rather find someone who accepts all of me.
> 
> ...


Specific to this situation though, I do think that any partner has a right to know if the person they are considering for marriage has no issues intentionally sleeping with a married person who is not their spouse. I won't even go so far as to pass judgement on that, but I do think that if a person has beliefs that are an extreme outlier to social norms, they have an obligation to revel them.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

samyeagar said:


> Specific to this situation though, I do think that any partner has a right to know if the person they are considering for marriage has no issues intentionally sleeping with a married person who is not their spouse. I won't even go so far as to pass judgement on that, but I do think that if a person has beliefs that are an extreme outlier to social norms, they have an obligation to revel them.


When I shared my story with my girl friends, sleeping with a married man wasn't uncommon. I wouldn't consider it an extreme outlier to social norms. If she had a married man fetish and slept with many of them, ya. Falling for 1 married guy isn't a "belief system" 

A lot got stuck in the "he's leaving her, it's pretty much over already anyway but he said he can't leave right now for money reasons" 

We don't know if she found out the first time or the second. Or if he woo-ed her back with a "this time I am seriously leaving her" 

It's not like married men and women tell people they are cheating with that they are happy, just want some extra sex. They had sob stories of how mean their partner was and they don't even sleep in the same room. They are basically separated really, they both want out, they just need the money/time/kids older before they can do it. They haven't had sex with their partner for years and she/he is so bad to them. 

My married man still lived with his wife. I knew that. He said he was in the basement until he could afford to leave. He said she was crazy and was cutting herself and he was scared to leave the kids there. They were done and she was dating too anyway. They hadn't had sex in over a year. 
Stupid of me to believe it (0 of it was true)? 
Totally, but man was he convincing.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> When I shared my story with my girl friends, sleeping with a married man wasn't uncommon. I wouldn't consider it an extreme outlier to social norms. If she had a married man fetish and slept with many of them, ya. Falling for 1 married guy isn't a "belief system"
> 
> A lot got stuck in the "he's leaving her, it's pretty much over already anyway but he said he can't leave right now for money reasons"
> 
> ...


Well, the social norm is Married=Off limits. Holding to that eliminates a whole bunch of possible issues down the road. I will admit that my wife took a chance on me, as I was still married when we started dating. The thing is though, I was physically separated, the filing and waiting period was over and I was a month and a half out from the final court date.

Yes, people do lie about their marital status, and can lead completely duplicitous lives, but I lose all sympathy for people from the moment they continue on with someone they know is married, regardless of circumstances. It's a huge risk they knowingly take, and could have been totally avoided by holding to the social norm of Married-Off limits.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Well your wife slept with a married man who happened to be telling the truth. Others didn't work out that way. 
I've heard from women who purposefully went after married men knowing they were easy and low maintenance. Those girls would have an out of norm experience. 
Sleeping with 1 married men does not send up red flags. Sometimes people need to make mistakes to learn and grow. 

Plus we don't know when she found out he was married and not separated or divorcing. Could have been the second time. He could have said he separated between the first and second time. 

It's not up to OP to judge anyway. Assume your non-virgin wife/girlfriend has a sexual history. If you can't deal with it, move on.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

petemcr said:


> So, are you saying if I let her just be herself now it's all out in the open, she'll eventually tell me the truth anyways?


Not necessarily. 

What I'm saying is if we put someone on a pedastal, sometimes they try to become someone they are not so that they don't fall off that pedastal. 

My concern here is that you are seeing a character that she playing for you that doesn't really exist in real life.

It concerns me that her friends and family are saying she is "different" with you.

I know in a way that is flattering and if that means you are bringing out the best I her, that may be a positive thing.

But it could also mean she is a Trainwreck and of low character, but since you have her on such a pedastal, she is play-acting at being a good person. 

Anyone can put in an act for awhile. But eventually their true character will always come out.

I don't know if she is a good person or not. And at this point you do not either. This incident does raise questions that need to be asked and your eyes and ears need to be open and you need to bring your image of her down out of the clouds.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Well your wife slept with a married man who happened to be telling the truth. Others didn't work out that way.
> I've heard from women who purposefully went after married men knowing they were easy and low maintenance. Those girls would have an out of norm experience.
> Sleeping with 1 married men does not send up red flags. Sometimes people need to make mistakes to learn and grow.
> 
> ...


Knowingly sleeping with someone who is married, for me is something to most certainly make a note of. It proves that they are capable, given the right circumstances, of well, sleeping with a married person. What happens from there, how they handled the situation moving forward shows if they considered it a mistake that they learned from, or considered it fine. It's all a part of who the person is.

For me, what I am seeing here has nothing to do with sexual history. At the very least, once the cat was out of the bag, a mature honest person would have had the difficult conversation and explained the message, the background, and the reasons why that the so called past was still actively in the present.

The way the girlfriend handled this whole situation, trying to delete it, hide it, avoid it...to me, that would be my biggest issue, and the whole married man sex would be the least of my concerns with this situation.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

petemcr said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> Hope you are all doing well.
> 
> ...


I doubt you are going to like what I am going to say, but I think the universe or God or whatever you believe just gave you a big tell and maybe saved you a lot of heart ache. You have a very good insight into this women's character that you may never have gotten when it was too late to head off disaster. As you are dating, now is the time for you to evaluate if this is someone you should end up with. This is a women who was willing to have and affair with a married man over a substantial period of time. That doesn't speak well for her ability to have a long term monogamous relationship. 

As someone who has been married over 10 years let me tell you, the primary thing you need to keep you faithful in the relationship is character. There are times in every marriage when you are board, tired, lonely, even angry, sometimes rightfully so. In those times, the only thing that keeps you from doing something like your girlfriend did is character. You don't act out because you know it's wrong. That's it, it's not love or even like. This is absolutely paramount that you understand that. This is why it's so important to find that in a mate. 

My experience is if you DON"T have character then it's very hard to change. You have to be very motivated as some of what I am talking about really forces you to work against your own nature. Not fulfilling your needs for an abstract reason is not something that is done out of human instinct. This is exemplified by the fact that she is betraying your privacy trying to brake in your phone to hide it. Serious red flags my friend. 

My overall point is this women has shown you maybe even by mistake that she doesn't have that thing in her that causes her to empathize with his wife and not act on her feelings of lust she may have for this man. The is going to be a point in your relationship were she won't empathize with you. What will she do? You are subjecting yourself, your financial life, family and potential kids to a very great risk. Are you sure that is the smart play when you have only been together for 7 months. I think your feelings, this post are totally valid and healthy as it sounds like you are having the doubts expressed in what I just wrote. Maybe instead of trying to get over this intuition or gut feeling you have you should listen to it. Dating is like a tryout. It's OK to test drive, kick the tires and say this isn't the car for me.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

petemcr said:


> She hasn't directly cheated on me, as far as I'm aware and she has sworn she never would because of how she feels about me, I mean I've spoken with her folks and even they have said she's never been this way with previous relationships


Let me tell you there are times in relationship where you can not believe how angry you are at your spouse. You think, why did I marry this person? Everyone and I mean everyone has those times. That is why "how I feel" about you is not a good reason at all to trust someone won't act on a behavior that they have proven in the past to have done before. 

Proceed at your own risk my friend. 

By the way I never understood the idea that you shouldn't judge people by there past actions. To a certain extent people are their actions, why wouldn't you? They are not their words as lying is easy anyone can say anything about themselves. Evaluating people on what they do is an important tool in your arsenal of keeping yourself safe. Why would you give that away, I don't see any nobility or wisdom in that. Nothing in life works that way. Should past actions be the only thing to judge people on, absolutely not, however when the people show you that they are continuing in the very same destructive behavior you would be unwise to ignore it.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

petemcr said:


> This happened prior to me getting with her, so she'd gone back to this guy after she split with her Ex and was still seeing him while she met me, then she told him she didn't want any involvement with him after that. I have no idea why she was sharing them, she was talking to a friend at work who also knows him about "**** boys" and why not to bother with them, then some how I got the msg, her story was she didn't know how it happened, she was leaning on her phone and some how it got sent to me, she showed me the convo with her mate but she'd deleted everything they'd said prior so, I assume they were discussing him and she was sharing it with her for whatever reason. She swears that she wasn't sharing it to anyone though.


Maybe he sent it. Maybe he told her to send it.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

sokillme said:


> I doubt you are going to like what I am going to say, but I think the universe or God or whatever you believe just gave you a big tell and maybe saved you a lot of heart ache. You have a very good insight into this women's character that you may never have gotten when it was too late to head off disaster. As you are dating, now is the time for you to evaluate if this is someone you should end up with. This is a women who was willing to have and affair with a married man over a substantial period of time. That doesn't speak well for her ability to have a long term monogamous relationship.
> 
> As someone who has been married over 10 years let me tell you, the primary thing you need to keep you faithful in the relationship is character. There are times in every marriage when you are board, tired, lonely, even angry, sometimes rightfully so. In those times, the only thing that keeps you from doing something like your girlfriend did is character. You don't act out because you know it's wrong. That's it, it's not love or even like. This is absolutely paramount that you understand that. This is why it's so important to find that in a mate.
> 
> ...


Read this over and over again until it either sinks in completely or your eyes bleed, whichever comes first.

The bottom line here is you don't know the real her. She may be a good person that did something dumb like we all do from time to time. 

She may be a skank.

You simply don't know at this point.

This is why we date for at least 4 seasons (figurative speaking) - so that we do get to know the real person.

You have had her on the pedastal and thought she was a pure and innocent angle sent from above. We now know she isn't an angel.

In order to know if she is a normal decent person that brain farted once or is a skank, you'll need to take off your Angel Goggles and really see her without her wings and halo.

By not having her on an unrealistic pedastal, she MIGHT. Drop the act and be more open and honest with you and allow you to get to know the real her. 

But narcissists and people with personality disorders and people of low character never want you to know the real them and will always try to hide and decieve and misdirect you. 

Time to drop the rose tinted glasses and start opening eyes and paying attention.

She may be a good person and a good match.

But this is absolutely just cause for calling her character into question and opening your eyes and your mind to the possibility she isn't what she appears to be.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> She had an affair with a guy who told her he was getting a divorce. A lot of people date while getting a divorce. It depends on how far the divorce process has progressed on whether or not he was cheating on his wife.


Easy way to check on this. OP ask her if the guy is divorced yet.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Let me relay my store:

I met my W on a blind date. As time went on discussion of past relationships came up as they normally do. My W divulged that she was the OW to a married man. However, I used OW in this narrative but in reality my W was 18 and naive. The married man...found a target. From that moment on I proceeded at my own risk at any rate as I know people can live, learn and change. We have been married for 23 years now. Not once did I think she was stepping out or thought about it. Let me tell you, she had some good reasons to dump my butt in the past 23 years but she stayed the course because I was "different" and she loved me unconditionally. 

As some have stated, proceed at your own risk. Luck favors the prepared. Let your GF's actions dictate her true intentions. Furthermore, this is a learning experience for your GF. You don't tolerate affairs, etc. Deal breaker.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

petemcr said:


> End of the day, I'm not jumping to any conclusions about this now, nor do I plan to, I understand now yea she isn't as perfect as she has made herself out to be, nor am I.
> 
> I'm just worried that I am planning a future with her, but now I have seen that she can be deceitful and possibly hide things from me such as this. I mean I told her at the start because of a previous Ex I don't want to be involved with someone with a past like that, maybe because I'd told her this it made her panic.
> 
> ...


The only thing you are confused about is being confused. You are thinking utterly rational. There are so many red flags here. This women doesn't seem like a good choice. What you are struggling with is you have an emotional connection to her so it's painful to brake it off. Work on that aspect. That is not confusion it's separating your emotions from your what your mind is logically telling you is the best course of action.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

People are talking like having a past, even a very sexual past, and being someone a man can look to as great and amazing and an excellent choice in partner are things that can't go together. 

For some men they can't. Other men can hold a woman in high standing and think she's a perfect match even if she was a total hoe at some points in her life. They aren't mutually exclusive. 

If you are a man that can not put the 2 together, find someone without a sexual past. 

Believe it or not, there is plenty of men who are perfectly fine with a woman being sexual and even making sexual mistakes or being sl*tty. No one needs someone to settle or grudgingly accept our past. If it's not compatible, leave. 

And yes, we should test drive the car and kick the tires. Women too. Depending on when we meet a good car, we may have tested out a few. Some horrible ones. Live and learn.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> No matter what I have done or slept with in my past, and trust me I have not always made good choices. Married man isn't the worst on the list. If it bothered my partner I wouldn't want him to be with me.
> 
> I'm not going to feel guilty or ashamed or somehow less desirable for it. I'd rather find someone who accepts all of me.
> 
> ...


If you have truly have no issues with your past as you say and want your potential mate to accept who you are as you say, you wouldn't hide it. The only reason to hide it is because you still want to have the opportunity to be with someone who wouldn't accept it. You words don't match your actions.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> People are talking like having a past, even a very sexual past, and being someone a man can look to as great and amazing and an excellent choice in partner are things that can't go together.
> 
> For some men they can't. Other men can hold a woman in high standing and think she's a perfect match even if she was a total hoe at some points in her life. They aren't mutually exclusive.
> 
> ...


I don't think anyone here has said anything about her "sexual past" the issue is being a part of an affair with a married man, and then the consistent dishonesty, or should that not matter as well?


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

sokillme said:


> If you have truly have no issues with your past as you say and want your potential mate to accept who you are as you say, you wouldn't hide it. The only reason to hide it is because you still want to have the opportunity to be with someone who wouldn't accept it. You words don't match your actions.


It's no ones business. I don't tell them what my poop was like either, doesn't mean I'm hiding it because I'm ashamed. It's not something anyone has the right to know. If it's important for someone to know all sexual history, that should be made clear in the first few dates to determine compatibility. 

Most men I've found don't care. I don't date religious guys or men who view a woman's sexuality as something shameful or have thoughts like she's a wh*re, she's not marriage material, etc. So I really didn't have a problem but some guys I didn't feel had the confidence enough to know the details so I didn't bother tell them. Again, it's not their business anyway. 

And I have 0 problems with my past or experiences. It had made me who I am today and my bf can be very thankful for that. He's never associated any of my sexual past or sexuality in general in a negative way. It's always been positive. 

One reason I feel so safe and trusting with him. 

Until they show me they can be trusted with my personal info, I'm gonna keep it to myself.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

It's not really a secret here that my wife has a more colorful sexual past than many women. Most of it was pretty mundane, but a few of the things...whoooo boy, they were doozies. Unfortunately for me, the one thing that would have been a possible deal breaker, I didn't learn of until after we had been together almost three years, married for over six months. And I think she knew it would have been as well. It caused a pretty significant two months of sexual dysfunction for us. We are past it now, but it did change the sexual dynamic of our relationship.


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## petemcr (Aug 7, 2017)

sokillme said:


> Easy way to check on this. OP ask her if the guy is divorced yet.


Not allowed to bring it up, she gets majorly upset if I even mention the guy now.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

petemcr said:


> Not allowed to bring it up, she gets majorly upset if I even mention the guy now.


So she got into a sexual affair with a married man, broke it off, went back for second servings, was recently talking to others about it, tried to conceal it from you, got found out, and now you're not allowed to bring it up?

The fact she had an affair is a yellow flag. The fact that she tried to cover it up and gets all upset if you mention it, but chats about it with friends is a red flag waving in the breeze. Ignore at your peril.

It's not about sex or sexuality. It's about honestly, trustworthiness, and being adult enough to own your own shyte.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

MJJEAN said:


> So she got into a sexual affair with a married man, broke it off, went back for second servings, was recently talking to others about it, tried to conceal it from you, got found out, and now you're not allowed to bring it up?
> 
> The fact she had an affair is a yellow flag. The fact that she tried to cover it up and gets all upset if you mention it, but chats about it with friends is a red flag waving in the breeze. Ignore at your peril.
> 
> It's not about sex or sexuality. It's about honestly, trustworthiness, and being adult enough to own your own shyte.


Not exactly an uncommon mindset for some women. It's already been hinted at in this thread.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

samyeagar said:


> Not exactly an uncommon mindset for some women. It's already been hinted at in this thread.


Some people are "privacy people" and some aren't. Maybe it wasn't OPs business before the errant text, but once that text was sent to him it became his business. She could have been open and honest. She chose not to. She wasn't an honest person then and she hasn't changed.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

I can only bring my own personal situation into the discussion. When I was in college, I had an affair with a married woman. I felt horrible about it later in life, and do so now. I have never cheated on a partner, including my wife of 21 years. I don't think you can necessarily equate the two. The fact that she had a relationship with a married guy does not mean that she has low regard for marriage or that she will cheat on you. I am proof of that. 

Honestly, I've never discussed it with my wife. It happened several years before I met her and is in no way something that dictates my own views on marriage. It's just one part of my past, albeit the one part I'm not proud of. 

I think I would just have a talk with her about honesty. If that part can be worked out, I wouldn't have an issue moving forward with the relationship.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

petemcr said:


> Not allowed to bring it up, she gets majorly upset if I even mention the guy now.


If you were to remove all the emotion from this situation kind of like how we see it, what would be your logical conclusion for why that is?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

TX-SC said:


> I can only bring my own personal situation into the discussion. When I was in college, I had an affair with a married woman. I felt horrible about it later in life, and do so now. I have never cheated on a partner, including my wife of 21 years. I don't think you can necessarily equate the two. The fact that she had a relationship with a married guy does not mean that she has low regard for marriage or that she will cheat on you. I am proof of that.
> 
> Honestly, I've never discussed it with my wife. It happened several years before I met her and is in no way something that dictates my own views on marriage. It's just one part of my past, albeit the one part I'm not proud of.
> 
> I think I would just have a talk with her about honesty. If that part can be worked out, I wouldn't have an issue moving forward with the relationship.


I think a lot of our answers would be different if she were to have had an open dialog about this. That doesn't' seem to be the case. There is the idea that some how she sent this text, that seems off though no?


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

sokillme said:


> I think a lot of our answers would be different if she were to have had an open dialog about this. That doesn't' seem to be the case. There is the idea that some how she sent this text, that seems off though no?


Yes, I think the dishonesty is the primary issue here. They really need to get that figured out. If not, I would walk away.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

No one preaches don't ask/Don't tell about sexual past more than me.

I 100% agree with you, what happens in someone's bedroom is their own business. 

In the case here, Pete hasn't said a word about her sexual past. He hasn't even mentioned directly if she had sex at all with this MM or her other BF.

No one else has talked about her having sex with other people either. So this isn't really about her sexual history in and of itself.

You are correct that who and what she did sexually is not his business.

But here's the catch - SHE MADE IT HIS BUSINESS when she took and tried to hack into his phone to cover up her history. She brought him into that.

Once she did that he had no choice but to wonder what that was all about. He would be a total chump and fool if he does not wake up and take a closer look at her now. 

He didn't snoop into her past and have an insecurity attack or get all Judgey McJudger on her because he found out she wasn't virginal.

She brought this on herself by stealing and trying to hack into his stuff to cover up her own stuff.

She was the one to screw that pooch.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> It's no ones business. I don't tell them what my poop was like either, doesn't mean I'm hiding it because I'm ashamed. It's not something anyone has the right to know. If it's important for someone to know all sexual history, that should be made clear in the first few dates to determine compatibility.
> 
> Most men I've found don't care. I don't date religious guys or men who view a woman's sexuality as something shameful or have thoughts like she's a wh*re, she's not marriage material, etc. So I really didn't have a problem but some guys I didn't feel had the confidence enough to know the details so I didn't bother tell them. Again, it's not their business anyway.
> 
> ...


He hasn't said a word about her sexual past.

He didn't go snooping.

She made it his business when she took and tried to hack his phone to cover up her tracks.

He would be a fool a chump and a moron to not take that seriously and to not open his eyes and look deeper.

He would be foolish and irresponsible to not see this as a potential warning sign. 

She brought this on by her own suspicious behavior.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

oldshirt said:


> He hasn't said a word about her sexual past.
> 
> He didn't go snooping.
> 
> ...


See, I wouldn't be with someone who's phone wasn't unlocked or accessible to me so there would be no hacking. If I sent him something accidentally, I would delete it. It wasn't for him. I have conversations with my gfs about sex and other topics that I don't want sent to my bf. Doesn't mean I'm super suspicious, it's that the conversation wasn't meant for him therefore should be deleted.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> See, I wouldn't be with someone who's phone wasn't unlocked or accessible to me so there would be no hacking. If I sent him something accidentally, I would delete it. It wasn't for him. I have conversations with my gfs about sex and other topics that I don't want sent to my bf. Doesn't mean I'm super suspicious, it's that the conversation wasn't meant for him therefore should be deleted.


And of course, different people feel differently. I am not sure I understand the desire for transparency on one hand, but privacy on the other.

Personally, I don't really engage in any conversations that I wouldn't have with my wife right there. Yes, there are times where a conversation about a specific problem may be confidential, but that confidentiality would always be at the request of the other party, and then it would only be about their issue, and not mine. I don't typically pick and choose my personal transparency. If I say or do something, even if it is a screw up, I own it and deal with the consequences.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

petemcr said:


> Not allowed to bring it up, she gets majorly upset if I even mention the guy now.


Look up the term DARVO and see if it applies here.

DARVO is a classic, textbook behavior of cheaters. 

Look it up and see if it describes her behavior.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

samyeagar said:


> And of course, different people feel differently. I am not sure I understand the desire for transparency on one hand, but privacy on the other.
> 
> Personally, I don't really engage in any conversations that I wouldn't have with my wife right there. Yes, there are times where a conversation about a specific problem may be confidential, but that confidentiality would always be at the request of the other party, and then it would only be about their issue, and not mine. I don't typically pick and choose my personal transparency. If I say or do something, even if it is a screw up, I own it and deal with the consequences.


Me being and expecting openness isn't the same as him reading every conversation I have with my girlfriends. It's not hidden, my stuff is always open but I do expect he not read everything I ever talk to a friend about. If he got sent something that was meant for a gf, I'd see no problem deleting it. I'm not going to read his conversations with male friends. I don't need to know what they talk about and I give him privacy enough to talk with his guy friends without his girlfriend spying. But I do need his phone accessible for me. And I give and expect the same. 

I talk to my gfs about all kinds of things he doesn't need to hear about. Ex- Currently a group of us are having a FB conversation about our past experiences with micro penises. It's not a conversation for him to read, or anyone other than those of us involved with it. Doesn't mean I am hiding it or keeping it a secret, it's just not for him. If the messages accidentally got sent to him I'd delete them. They were for the girls, not for my bf.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

petemcr said:


> No I know, it's true we all have our own issues and demons, I'm not asking for much in my eyes, just her to be honest about everything and I'll do the same. It's not like I was on a one man crusade to try and find out about her past, I'd never asked anything about it, hell we haven't even discussed partner numbers because in all honesty, I don't care, I was just interested in her and our future together, it's just unfortunate that I'd been dragged in to it which was more than likely due to a conversation with a friend, whatever her reasons were for trying to forward it on. I have told her if there is anything else like this, if anything else comes to light about it then I will more than likely be departing


Here is something that the two of you might want to talk about and implement.

The Policy of Radical Honesty


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

samyeagar said:


> Not exactly an uncommon mindset for some women. It's already been hinted at in this thread.


No, lying and hiding things has not even been hinted at by women in this thread.

What has been said is that for some people, a lot of people, sexual past is not an issue and not even discussed.

I've never, ever, had any guy I've dated ask me anything about my sexual past. I've never asked them either. And so it's never been brought up. The only thing discusses was what long term relationships/marriages.

It's not about being deceitful. It's that many people just don't care. After all we now live in a society where promiscuity is pretty much the norm.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

sokillme said:


> If you have truly have no issues with your past as you say and want your potential mate to accept who you are as you say, you wouldn't hide it. *The only reason to hide* it is because you still want to have the opportunity to be with someone who wouldn't accept it. You words don't match your actions.


Not talking about one's sexual past is not hiding it. If a guy (or gal) wants to know about your sexual past, they can ask. Then you have the choice to either tell them that you will not talk about that or that you will talk about it. 

But if someone does not ask and does not bring theirs up ... do you really think that a woman has to give the guy an inventory of her sexual past? I don't think so.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

sokillme said:


> I don't think anyone here has said anything about her "sexual past" the issue is being a part of an affair with a married man, and then the consistent dishonesty, or should that not matter as well?


We often see threads here on TAM in which other posts are encouraging the male OP to go out and start dating before their divorce is final. Often times even before it's filed.

That's what this doctor apparently did, or lead the OP's gf to believe he was doing. 

So apparently it's ok to tell a man whose divorce is not filed or final to go out and screw as many woman as he can. But the peanut gallery is going to condemn a woman he's had sex with? 

Bit of a double standard there.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Not talking about one's sexual past is not hiding it. If a guy (or gal) wants to know about your sexual past, they can ask. Then you have the choice to either tell them that you will not talk about that or that you will talk about it.
> 
> But if someone does not ask and does not bring theirs up ... do you really think that a woman has to give the guy an inventory of her sexual past? I don't think so.


What would be the motivation to hide it? Why is that a good strategy in a relationship? Do you really want to be with someone who can't accept it? Why? If you don't why wouldn't you find out before you invest all this time?


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## dubsey (Feb 21, 2013)

petemcr said:


> Not allowed to bring it up, she gets majorly upset if I even mention the guy now.


you have 3 options at this point, or you'll have no peace.

1. Bring it up, get it out in the open with complete truth, and you decide you can handle it, and you move on together, but she has to know a lie found out about this, and you walk away.
2. The above, you can't handle it, you walk away.
3. She won't tell you, so you walk away.

anything other than those 3, and you're doomed to failure.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

sokillme said:


> What would be the motivation to hide it? Why is that a good strategy in a relationship? Do you really want to be with someone who can't accept it? Why? If you don't why wouldn't you find out before you invest all this time?


One reason I don't share my past is that just because I am now with new partner doesn't mean my past partners are. They don't need to know that Mr. Smith and I had anal sex. It's not new partners right to know what Mr. Smith and I did when alone and private. Maybe Mr. Smith doesn't want new partner to hear about all his personal details and history. 

I don't want my ex or my now partner telling a new partner about the things we did sexually, it's not their business. Luckily for me I have not had partners who cared or who overshared their own past so I don't worry about them oversharing mine. With friends, I expect it. With a new partner, meh. I wouldn't like it. One guy I was with talked a lot about previous partners, what he had done, how, when, where. It was creepy. It's not my business and I don't need to know. It was like he was oversharing bathroom problems with me. Keep that stuff to yourself. I have no care about a persons past but I don't need to know about it. 

Truly what it comes down to is it's not their business. It's just not. I'm not going to tell every single partner I have about my personal sexual history. I have one, I have no STDs, these are some things I enjoy, these are some things I don't enjoy. That is all they need to know. 

Anyone who needs more or can't accept a woman's past needs to be the one to bring it up early and make sure it's compatible. Then she has the opportunity to realize he isn't a match too. You don't want until you are in a committed relationship to bring up needing to "accept" her past. Since most men do not care, the ones that do are in a minority. They need to make it clear how they feel early if the issue is a deal breaker one for them. If I'm with someone, I'm assuming they understand I have a sexual history (I mean, I have children so they better understand that I've had sex) and if they have a problem with it they would should say something


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> We often see threads here on TAM in which other posts are encouraging the male OP to go out and start dating before their divorce is final. Often times even before it's filed.
> 
> That's what this doctor apparently did, or lead the OP's gf to believe he was doing.
> 
> ...


Again ask her if they are divorced now. You have to admit that it's pretty fishy that she is so secretive about it. It leads to the conclusion that she is not too proud of her actions. Why do you think that is? If it was like you say wouldn't she just say it?

If they guy was really moved on, like in a new apartment, required by law to wait and eventually did divorce then I wouldn't have a problem with it then. 

You seem to be conveniently ignoring all of this women's sneaky **** as to turn this into a teachable moment about women's sexual freedom. In the process really missing what is being discussed here. I would like to point out that OP came here for advice, you and some posters are thread jacking, I have been warned for as much. 

Lets deal with this guys sneaky girlfriend, not all women's sexual rights. We can do that in another thread if you want. I think you would be surprised whose side I am on. I believe women have as much right to have sex and fun before their marriage as any man. I personally think there is some emotional risk for both sexes. However I can see the appeal. Though this is not what I chose, I wanted my wife to think the same way as me about that, but not because I felt jealous or like I was competing with the ex boyfriends. My wife's count is higher then mine I think, but still small. I could care less. I hope she learned a thing or to for my benefit. I don't really have a hang up how people women slept with under honorable circumstances, in the sense that I don't think it makes them any different then men who do that. Yes I get that some men have a double standard, in my case I just wanted someone who wanted it to be unique like me. I think making sex like drinking coffee has had some really bad ramifications for both sexes actually. Again though I get the appeal. 

None of that is what we are talking about here. This is a women who has acted deviously, on top of having a relationship with a married man which at the very least was under unexplained circumstances. I suspect if the genders were reversed this would not be such a hard topic for you and you would be echoing my sentiments.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

When I got into an exclusive relationship with my girlfriend we both had blood tests and were tested for std's,hpv etc.We were both clean and that is all I needed to know about her sexual history and all I was prepared to tell her about mine.
This girl is been portrayed here as everything from a home wrecker to a lying manipulating **** and it is great to see all the upstanding people who never put a foot wrong in their lives lining up to condemn her.
What has she actually done to the op that deserves this treatment.She accidentally sent him a message and then tried to delete it.So she had an affair with a married man,big ****ing deal.The important word is HAD.She has been faithful to the op and that's what matters.Nobody knows anything about this affair partner,he may have been separated for years at this stage but let's not let facts get in the way of the witch hunt.
Is everyone who ever makes a mistake supposed to be made suffer for it for the rest of their lives,no partner and definitely no chance of happiness.
It's lucky this girl isn't facing a trial by jury because she wouldn't stand a chance if it was selected from the commentators on this thread.
Some of you are christians.John 8:7.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> One reason I don't share my past is that just because I am now with new partner doesn't mean my past partners are. They don't need to know that Mr. Smith and I had anal sex. It's not new partners right to know what Mr. Smith and I did when alone and private. Maybe Mr. Smith doesn't want new partner to hear about all his personal details and history.
> 
> I don't want my ex or my now partner telling a new partner about the things we did sexually, it's not their business. Luckily for me I have not had partners who cared or who overshared their own past so I don't worry about them oversharing mine. With friends, I expect it. With a new partner, meh. I wouldn't like it. One guy I was with talked a lot about previous partners, what he had done, how, when, where. It was creepy. It's not my business and I don't need to know. It was like he was oversharing bathroom problems with me. Keep that stuff to yourself. I have no care about a persons past but I don't need to know about it.
> 
> ...


I don't have a problem with this really. It should be discussed, that was my point. No one says you have to be open about it. If you feel it is private then it's up to your potential partner to decide if they are cool with that. I say that regardless of the gender. In the same respect there is nothing wrong with wanting certain things in a partner whatever it is. Good luck to everyone I hope they find someone who is on the same page. The problem is when one person lies or hides the truth to be able to circumvent what is important to their partner. That is just plain dishonest and wrong. In the same respect it's unfair to bring it up 5 years later. Personally I don't think it is wise not to talk about it. All of it at least in generalities. If you know you have stuff in your past that not everyone is going to be cool with it better to get it out in the open early and not waste time. It's much worse if it's 5 year in with a house and 2 kids.

If I had heard "That's none of your business" stuff I would just think this person isn't an open person and we don't fit. See i would have much more of a problem about the openness then the sex history. Now in my case both my wife and my count are very small. We both only had sex with people we were in love with or at least thought we were in love with at the time. I wanted someone who felt that sex was reserved for being in love. I wanted that uniqueness. I was quite open about that with everyone I dated. I am pretty sure a lot of women thought I was weird. So be it. I DO get though that for some that is not important. Lots of my friends felt this way. I don't think any less of them. 

However in one way I can relate to this, I have never asked is what she did with these few men. I don't care. I know what she tried but honestly don't know with who or care about it. I don't even know these guys names. Just the fact that we were on the same page about uniqueness was cool for me.

Now lets say she was unwilling to try something with me then I judge that on it's merits with me. Meaning if she was a cold fish with me, I would be disappointing because she was a cold fish with me, not in comparison to what she did with anyone else. I judge our entire relationship on OUR relationship. I have expectations in our relationship but that have very little to do with her past. 

One caveat is I DO think if you have had sex with someone in your immediate group of friends you run a risk in not talking about it. There are plenty of threads on the internet about one partner feeling very hurt when they find out about this later, as they see it as a level of intimacy that was withheld from them by their partner but kept with the friend. You would probably scoff at that. I personally understand that feeling. Also orgies, hot-wife, public videos, swinging, sex for money, things like that NEED to be discussed. Most people are going to at least want to think about this before getting into a long term relationship when that kind of stuff is involved. 

There are also a few scientific studies that tie sex count to greater chance of divorce. You can draw your own conclusion on why that is. 

The bottom line is you seem to be one of these people who feel it unfair for potential partners to not be interested in you because of your sexual history. However everyone is entitled to have their own feelings about what they want in a mate. You want someone who doesn't care. They want someone who does. No one is wrong in this case it's just choices.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I think an important distinction needs to made here.

This is not one of the standard cases we are accostomed to where a timid little forest creature finds out his GF has had a more colorful Sexlife than he has and he is having an insecurity attack over it.

Nor is it a case where some devoutly religolious guy has discovered his wife/GF wasn't a virgin before he came along.

And it isn't about the OP thinking she has cheated on him or will cheat on him.

And certainly no one has said that people are not entitled to their own sexual privacy.

The OP has not challenged a single one of things.

What I see here are two issues- 

One is he had her up on an unrealistic pedestal and his concept and image of her and their relationship was shaken when she did something fishy and he had to come back down to earth in realizing she isn't perfect and isn't an angel and is a flesh and blood, fallible human just like the rest if us.

The other issue is she did something fishy and questionable in an attempt to cover up something else fishy and questionable in her recent past.

Now do to some questionable behavior THAT SHE DID HIM AND WHICH INVOLVED HIM, he has questions about what she was really doing on the past that she felt the need to break into his stuff to hide. And he is now questioning whether she really is who and what she has been portraying to him and whether or not her character is what he is ok with in a partner.

IMHO those are very valid and realistic questions. I think he would be a fool not to have this be a bit of a wake-up and a reason to get his feet back on the ground and look at things more objectively.

He was not and is not invading her privacy or digging into her sexual history for no valid reason.

She interjected this into him. She provoked this by her own hand and pulled him into it even though he did nothing to initiate this situation.

He wants to know what her role was in her involvement with the married man. He wants to know what was being discussed with her GFs and how it got sent to him. And he wants to know why she was hacking his stuff to hide it...

And most importantly this has created questions about her trustworthiness and reliability. If she would do this - only a fool would not also wonder what else she has done and what else she might do.

All this other discussion about women's privacy and the things they've done or not done with their BFs is irrelevant and and just a distraction and hijack because it doesn't have anything to do with the merits of this particular situation.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

sokillme said:


> The bottom line is you seem to be one of these people who feel it unfair for potential partners to not be interested in you because of your sexual history. However everyone is entitled to have their own feelings about what they want in a mate. You want someone who doesn't care. They want someone who does. No one is wrong in this case it's just choices.


I agree and understand your post. As for this part, I have no problem with anyone not being interested in me because of my sexual history. We just aren't compatible people. 

They are more than welcome to not want a woman with a history or one as colorful as mine is. 
I'd have a big issue if they didn't disclose that for months or years into things. 

He has his chance at the start to ask about my sexual history and tell me it is important that he accept it (I won't tell him but will politely say we aren't compatible and we can both move on) That's totally fine and is a compatibility problem between me and him, not a problem of me thinking he's bad or wrong. He just needs to be clear about his need to accept her sexual past at the start. 

And I don't have a blanket "tell no one anything" policy. I decide who with and how much I share. My bf showed me I can trust him emotionally with anything I tell him. There's no judgement. He sees my darkest sides and loves me, not despite of it but with it. All of me as a whole. 
I just haven't had that with everyone so not everyone needs to know my business.


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## Annie123 (Apr 27, 2015)

Why does she still have those messages saved on her phone, 7 months into a new relationship? Especially since it looks like they were talking about their sexual encounters in those texts?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

sokillme said:


> What would be the motivation to hide it? Why is that a good strategy in a relationship? Do you really want to be with someone who can't accept it? Why? If you don't why wouldn't you find out before you invest all this time?


Why are you using the word "hide"? That is implying that I'm being deceitful. A person I am dating is not entitled to know every intimate thing about me and about anyone I was with in the past. 

@SlowlyGoingCrazy said it well in post #88 & #93

There are things that are deal breakers for me. I wouldn't wait 7 months, a year, etc. to ask. I ask up front. Does he have a criminal record, what for, how long ago, how much time served, is he on parole? I would probably not go out with him again. Has he ever worked as a sex worker? Does he have STDs?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Annie123 said:


> Why does she still have those messages saved on her phone, 7 months into a new relationship? Especially since it looks like they were talking about their sexual encounters in those texts?


'cause she's like me and never deletes anything... could be.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

I think one thing that would be important for people to clarify is how their views would differ between a mid length dating situation and marital situation. I get that things are different, that expectations change, and things that fly while dating, might not while being married.

For me personally, my biggest hang up in all of this would be the getting into the phone to delete the errant messages. I see that as a very immature thing to do...sort of like trying to beat your parents home to grab the bad report card out of the mail thinking it will just never come up, and no one will ever find out. What is the underlying motivation compelling one to delete it? Embarrassment? Afraid it will upset partner? Willful deception? Feelings of shame? 

Again, I can see different answers for different stages of the relationship, but long term, I just don't see how needing to remove one's tracks from their partners view is a good thing.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

I also really can't see how it would work anyway...I just can't see me asking my wife for her phone without her at least asking why as she handed the phone to me, so at that point, would I tell her the truth, would I flat out lie to my wife and make something up, or be so vague as to be lying anyway? Which of course would lead to more questions. Or do I try and get her phone without her noticing? And how would that work for most people most people who have their phones on them all the time? I suppose if the timing of the errant message was right, maybe wait until they are asleep if they hadn't seen it?

Regardless of the reason anyway, I could not do any of that without feeling really sneaky inside, and that for me is just a very unpleasant feeling.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> 'cause she's like me and never deletes anything... could be.


I just checked, I have 7636 emails on my phone right now. 
Countless fb conversations
Texts are never deleted so who knows how many of them 

A few dozen notes of random babbling about dating and life and grocery lists 

I never delete anything either.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I just checked, I have 7636 emails on my phone right now.
> Countless fb conversations
> Texts are never deleted so who knows how many of them
> 
> ...


I can relate to this. I am basically too lazy to go through and clean things up. That said, I can't remember a time where I actually looked back through any of my crap for any reason either.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Within the first week of dating my bf we discussed locked phones. We both said that a- it's never locked and b- you could look through it whenever you want. I don't care. 
And his phone really is always just sitting out. He loses where he put it much more often than he has it in his hand. I have had countless opportunities to go through, delete, change whatever I wanted. I haven't cause I have no reason to 

By week 2 he had the password that I use for everything cause I wanted to show him something and he needed to go into an account of mine to see it. 

I trust him fully to have access to anything whenever he wants but to not read my girl talk chats. It's a 2 part trust. 
I can also be trusted to have access to everything but not read his conversations with guy friends. 

People need a vent spot. For some it's here (how many want their TAM posts getting accidentally sent to their spouse) 
For some it's the girl friends or guy friends. 

We are both in agreement that relationships don't get discussed with opposite sex friends but if he wants to vent or brag with the boys or I talk to the girls about how "omg I once dated a guy just like this, he ....." it's not something he or I need to monitor and if one of us happened accidentally on to it, delete or close or whatever. Not your concern.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Within the first week of dating my bf we discussed locked phones. We both said that a- it's never locked and b- you could look through it whenever you want. I don't care.
> And his phone really is always just sitting out. He loses where he put it much more often than he has it in his hand. I have had countless opportunities to go through, delete, change whatever I wanted. I haven't cause I have no reason to
> 
> By week 2 he had the password that I use for everything cause I wanted to show him something and he needed to go into an account of mine to see it.
> ...


Yeah, neither my wife nor I have passwords on our phones, and I rarely have mine on me to be honest. During the day when I'm at work, and when I get home, it always goes in the same place on the headboard with my wallet, keys, and work badge, and may get touched once before I go to bed just to see if anyone has died or anything. A full charge usually lasts me two days. My wife on the other hand is glued to her phone and just loves keyboard warrioring.

As to conversations I have and such, as I said, I generally don't talk about, or say things that I wouldn't say in front of my wife. Sure, there are times that a conversation could lead to a difficult conversation, but that is not something I am concerned about, or afraid of. I am perfectly fine if my wife were to see anything I have written here, and she has access if she wants. For me, I have nothing that I would want to keep off limits. It is exceedingly rare than any of us guys even mention the opposite sex, much less in a way that has anything to do with them being women. In my group of friends, it is also understood that anything we talk about, unless explicitly stated otherwise, there is a chance our spouses will also know.


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## Iselez (Aug 1, 2017)

petemcr said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> Hope you are all doing well.
> 
> ...


Leave her, she's not good bro!!

Enviado desde mi Nexus 6P mediante Tapatalk


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## Yag-Kosha (Sep 8, 2016)

petemcr said:


> She hasn't directly cheated on me, as far as I'm aware and she has sworn she never would because of how she feels about me, I mean I've spoken with her folks and even they have said she's never been this way with previous relationships


How someone treats you is one of the worst ways to judge someone's character and extremely short-sighted.

One of my indicators to gauge person's character is how they treat those around them who are not in a place to grant any sort of reciprocity for good behavior.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Lets assume for a moment that her sending this note about her past was truly an accident as she said. *Her first instinct is to be deceitful* by sneaking on to her boyfriend's phone and hiding the evidence. This is a huge flag for her character. The fact that the she is deceitfully covering up evidence of her past of being deceitful to another marriage is *a major red flag stacked on a minor red flag*.

These examples show she is not by default a very honest person. From OP's statements, honesty is important to him (as it should be). My experience with *blowing past red flags because you are infatuated* is that eventually a person will come out and show their true colors and those *red flags were there for reason*. It may take years, post marriage, post kids, but she will show herself again to be deceitful, without doubt, it is in her.

I would move on. This will come back to bite you.

With current deceit very early in a relationship being the main issue, I wouldn't even bother to debate whether he should care about her sexual past.

*Early in relationships, every action should build trust.* She already just stalled trust and nosedived it into the ground, where it should be in this case.


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## jaumeat (Jun 4, 2017)

re16 said:


> Lets assume for a moment that her sending this note about her past was truly an accident as she said. *Her first instinct is to be deceitful* by sneaking on to her boyfriend's phone and hiding the evidence. This is a huge flag for her character. The fact that the she is deceitfully covering up evidence of her past of being deceitful to another marriage is *a major red flag stacked on a minor red flag*.
> 
> These examples show she is not by default a very honest person. From OP's statements, honesty is important to him (as it should be). My experience with *blowing past red flags because you are infatuated* is that eventually a person will come out and show their true colors and those *red flags were there for reason*. It may take years, post marriage, post kids, but she will show herself again to be deceitful, without doubt, it is in her.
> 
> ...


This.
You need to be very careful here, love without trust will turn into paranoia and therefore love will die. You have either to let go and trust her she is going to be different with you or let her go.

You dont want after some years into marriage with kids have to restart your life.

Cheaters usually cheat again. But you need to find the reason why she did that. Was her ex an ass and she needed support elsewhere? Or simply lost her feelings for him and looked for new experiences?

You said she would not do this to you because she loves you very much. And I truly believe that. But what happens when she won't be in love with you anymore, or her feelings fade? You know, in 2 year tops those in love feelings are gone.

Some ppl are always chasing those butterflies in their belly and either jump from one relationship to another or they stay in the same while cheating or emotionally​ cheating.

You need to find out which kind of person you are dating. Maybe some space between you both will help you think clearly.

My 2 cts.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## petemcr (Aug 7, 2017)

re16 said:


> Lets assume for a moment that her sending this note about her past was truly an accident as she said. *Her first instinct is to be deceitful* by sneaking on to her boyfriend's phone and hiding the evidence. This is a huge flag for her character. The fact that the she is deceitfully covering up evidence of her past of being deceitful to another marriage is *a major red flag stacked on a minor red flag*.
> 
> These examples show she is not by default a very honest person. From OP's statements, honesty is important to him (as it should be). My experience with *blowing past red flags because you are infatuated* is that eventually a person will come out and show their true colors and those *red flags were there for reason*. It may take years, post marriage, post kids, but she will show herself again to be deceitful, without doubt, it is in her.
> 
> ...


What you have raised is exactly the emotions I am going through right now, and I'm struggling I won't lie.

She is talking about our future together and how amazing it is going to be, and without sounding like a pessimist here too much, I am thinking about what happens when the love dies down, which I know it will eventually, where does that leave me?

Where does it leave me when we're having a bad patch and all of a sudden this guy turns up again, or she may contact him and he's "leaving his wife" and the timing seems right.

She has told me she just wants to concentrate on us now in the future and I'm not allowed to bring up the past any more, I honestly don't think I can promise that.

I'm tempted to tell her that marriage may be off the cards with us now, she makes me feel like I am punishing her for bringing it up or saying it's not something I agree with, then I feel bad for beliefs. Do I just tell her that we can continue to see each other, but marriage is going to be off the cards now or would that be punishing her?

I don't feel like I am, I'm just trying to protect my own interest but keep things steady with us.


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

Be straightforward. Let her know that this was a big deal to you because, if I may quote re16 ... "Early in relationships, every action should build trust. She already just stalled trust and nosedived it into the ground, where it should be in this case."

Let her know that in order to build the kind of trust required to plan for a future together, well, she's basically starting over from scratch.

Tell her it's going to take a little more time than she has been thinking. If she's really in it for the long haul then she will understand. If not then she'll whine and *****. You'll see soon enough.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

You have the right to your own beliefs, feelings, moral standards, ethics, desires, plans, etc.

None of those things need line up with anybody else's. You don't have to be reasonable or mainstream (just not criminal or abusive!). What I'm saying is that you have every right to feel however you do about her behaviors and her value system. Nobody here needs agree or disagree with you or to declare her actions as wrong.

She doesn't have to agree with your feelings etc either.

If you are not a match with her, you're not a match. She can be a good person in many ways yet not match you. Many here find your reaction to be rational and moral, but what really matters is how you feel about your relationship with her. You have some serious doubts about how things might be if you got married. That is a very important thing!

Trust your gut. Having these doubts should tell you all you need to know. This is why you date before getting married!


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## petemcr (Aug 7, 2017)

Thanks a lot guys for all your advice, really appreciate it.

Looks like I'm going to be having a difficult conversation soon, see how it pans out.


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## Magnesium (Jun 19, 2017)

petemcr said:


> What you have raised is exactly the emotions I am going through right now, and I'm struggling I won't lie.
> 
> She is talking about our future together and how amazing it is going to be, and without sounding like a pessimist here too much, I am thinking about what happens when the love dies down, which I know it will eventually, where does that leave me?
> 
> ...


More red flags.

You've been with this girl less than half the time it takes to really get to know someone. She has, in my opinion, done you a favor by revealing to you who she really is, despite her efforts to show you a different person that would be marriage worthy.

Marriage should not be in the cards with this girl at this point at all. AT ALL. Back way off and review your own values, boundaries and expectations for any long term relationship/marriage.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Trying to say you can't bring up the past is the typical response by someone like her.

She is trying to control the situation and rugsweep it. She is trying to make you feel like you did or are doing something wrong by bringing it up while downplaying what she did.

She is trying to make you feel bringing it up is in the same arena / just as bad as what she did... not even close.

*You aren't starting from scratch on trust at this point, you would be starting from some level of distrust* and to bring that back to trust, then trust to the level of marriage.... long long road that will only abruptly end at some point.

Don't keep driving toward the cliff. Find a new girl.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

When I first started dating my now wife we were at a pub having a quick drink when she pointed out an(other) attractive woman standing at the bar and asked me what I thought. "Yeah, not bad. Thanks for pointing her out", I said. I can remember thinking to my self "Well, she's pretty cool. She's not insecure". Evidently being slow on the uptake, it takes me a decade to realise this was a test. Head games is not our style so I asked her.

Wife: *I wanted to know if you would lie about the little things, because if you lie about the little things, I thought you'd be more likely to lie about the big things.*

Apparently, her ex would not have been able to admit that the woman by the bar was attactive. So, how does this anecdote pertain to your situation and what can you learn form it?


petemcr said:


> Now, I'm having such a bad time with it, she'd deleted the notes, she said she forget they were on her phone and *no idea why she had them saved*, she told the guy she was with me and didn't want any more to do with him after he asked why he'd not seen her in the gym, but she was having a thing with him and he told her he was getting a divorce, they stopped when she got with her ex, then started again when her an her ex split up.


This is the little lie. This is the pebble that leads to the avalanche that leads here:


> I want a future with her because we get on so well but it's caused a few discussions, she says she hates herself for it and said she'd completely told me the truth, but *I don't believe her.*


Of course you don't. I wouldn't believe her either. These aren't emails. This is a note of a text conversation that she created deliberately. She created it because she wanted to reminisce over of a pleasant time in her life. That's it. Not a big deal. You're not here because you're expecting a virgin bride. Or that you expect women to simply materialise in your life with no history. You want honesty and you're not getting it. She'd rather lie than have an adult conversation. Because she's *conflict avoidant*. And that is not a trait you want in a life partner. (see the Coping with Infidelity board for examples)


petemcr said:


> This happened prior to me getting with her, so she'd gone back to this guy after she split with her Ex and was still seeing him while she met me, then she told him she didn't want any involvement with him after that. I have no idea why she was sharing them, she was talking to a friend at work who also knows him about "**** boys" and why not to bother with them, then some how I got the msg, her story was she didn't know how it happened, she was leaning on her phone and some how it got sent to me, she showed me the convo with her mate but she'd deleted everything they'd said prior so, I assume they were discussing him and she was sharing it with her for whatever reason. She swears that she wasn't sharing it to anyone though.


So, after her inital lie about why that conversation was in her notes in the first place (and I'll repeat I don't think it's a big deal) her story keeps changing. And previous texts to her friends are deleted. And everytime she gives you a new explanation it just raises more questions. Then she's angry. There are tears. She "hates herself". All in an effort to make you back down. She'd rather keep lieing than tell you a slightly unpalatable truth.


MJJEAN said:


> So she got into a sexual affair with a married man, broke it off, went back for second servings, was recently talking to others about it, tried to conceal it from you, got found out, and now you're not allowed to bring it up?
> 
> The fact she had an affair is a yellow flag. The fact that she tried to cover it up and gets all upset if you mention it, but chats about it with friends is a red flag waving in the breeze. Ignore at your peril.
> 
> It's not about sex or sexuality. It's about honestly, trustworthiness, and being adult enough to own your own shyte.


Exactly right.

I know you love her, but I hope you love yourself more. The time has come for _you_ to have a difficult, adult conversation. The bottom line is she's untrustworthy and not long-term relationship material.


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## petemcr (Aug 7, 2017)

I think I know this now, I'm just avoiding it because of the feeling of a break up and loosing her considering how good we've got it, but you're right if this doesn't get resolved then it's going to eat at me and I guess I'll never trust anything she tells me.

I mean, I told her when we started seeing each other that I'd had an issue with a previous ex who had been involved in an affair and she hadn't put it to rest, it caused major problems and we split up and I told her I don't want to go back to that. So her hiding it from me in the first place because she thought I wouldn't give her a chance I understand, she was in love with me and didn't think I'd give her a chance, which is wrong had she told me the truth in the first place.

But, it is just the lies on top of that which bother me, her reasons for each were

The still being on her phone

"I would reply on the note, so I would save his conversation, reply to it and then copy and paste it in to the chat with him afterwards"

That's seems like a lie, I don't know anyone who does that and this was 3 - 4 texts together, that would get way too confusing for anyone, so yea she probably kept them to remind them of a good time, but to be sending them to a mate while we're on holiday together, bad times.

The how they got sent to me

"I was doing my hair and I was leaning on my phone, then somehow it got sent to 3 people"

I've tried to forward on a note from my phone, not easy, 5 clicks easy, so again another lie or so it seems.

Also, when we first started seeing each other she told me she uses texts sometimes rather than whatsapp so her mate can't see when she's online (clearly showing she's sneaky enough to hide it) and I had noticed she had a text from him in her text msgs once when she opened them in front of me (again before we were exclusive), so this doesn't concern me as much.

So I guess my question is, would anyone believe them as real reasons if they were told that? Would over looking them be completely idiotic on my part?

and I don't like painting her in a bad light here, she is an amazing person, she's caring, attentive, a lot of traits anyone would be happy to have in a relationship.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

petemcr said:


> I think I know this now, I'm just avoiding it because of the feeling of a break up and loosing her considering how good we've got it, but you're right if this doesn't get resolved then it's going to eat at me and I guess I'll never trust anything she tells me.
> 
> I mean, I told her when we started seeing each other that I'd had an issue with a previous ex who had been involved in an affair and she hadn't put it to rest, it caused major problems and we split up and I told her I don't want to go back to that. So her hiding it from me in the first place because she thought I wouldn't give her a chance I understand, she was in love with me and didn't think I'd give her a chance, which is wrong had she told me the truth in the first place.
> 
> ...



Only you can decide whether to stay with this woman or not,nobody else can tell you what to do. I would ask you to remember that most of the people who are advocating breaking up are people who have been cheated on in the past. Their opinion while given honestly is bound to be biased. 
I think you are overreacting to what is just an attempt to delete a text sent in error,her panicking and then trying to cover it up. You can still date her without marriage but if this is a deal breaker you should tell her and let her find someone else and you can do likewise.


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## Magnesium (Jun 19, 2017)

petemcr said:


> I think I know this now, I'm just avoiding it because of the feeling of a break up and loosing her considering how good we've got it, but you're right if this doesn't get resolved then it's going to eat at me and I guess I'll never trust anything she tells me.
> 
> I mean, I told her when we started seeing each other that I'd had an issue with a previous ex who had been involved in an affair and she hadn't put it to rest, it caused major problems and we split up and I told her I don't want to go back to that. So her hiding it from me in the first place because she thought I wouldn't give her a chance I understand, she was in love with me and didn't think I'd give her a chance, which is wrong had she told me the truth in the first place.
> 
> ...



No, a person who is being reasonable and rational would not believe those lies. Yes, overlooking them would foolish.

Plenty of people with some truly wonderful qualities are in prison for doing horrific things. Most everyone is not all good or all bad. My mother used to say "even Hitler loved his dogs," meaning even the most evil people have _some_ capacity for goodness and kindness. It doesn't matter that she is also caring, attentive, and has many traits that "anyone" would be happy to have in a relationship. At this point, you cannot even be certain those traits you think she has are real. She has lied to you and pretended to be someone she is not in order to get you to commit to her. Those SHOULD be deal-breakers if your goal is a healthy, mutually respectful, loving, trusting, long-term relationship.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

petemcr said:


> I mean, I told her when we started seeing each other that I'd had an issue with a previous ex who had been involved in an affair and she hadn't put it to rest, it caused major problems and we split up and I told her I don't want to go back to that.


Fair enough.


> So her hiding it from me in the first place because she thought I wouldn't give her a chance I understand, she was in love with me and didn't think I'd give her a chance, which is wrong had she told me the truth in the first place.


Nah. Lies of omission are still lies. Don't be understanding. This is how cheaters think - "What they don't know won't hurt them". It's another red flag. Personally, I value courage in my partner. She had the opportunity to be open and honest with you about her past and let the cards fall where they may. Instead, she chose to withhold vital information and take away your ability to make decisions about your life.


> So I guess my question is, would anyone believe them as real reasons if they were told that?


No. Because each answer she gives you throws up more questions. The leaning on her phone excuse is in "the dog ate my homework" territory. It's an insult to your intelligence.


> Would over looking them be completely idiotic on my part?


It's your life. The CWI is full of stories that began with people ignoring red flags early on in the relationship.


> and I don't like painting her in a bad light here, she is an amazing person, she's caring, attentive, a lot of traits anyone would be happy to have in a relationship.


Everybody has good qualities. We're the sum total of the good _and_ the bad.



petemcr said:


> Fine, first time he could lie and say he was getting a divorce, but the 2nd time, I can't see that, she'd have known by then, and she said they were in contact while she was with her ex as "friends".


Note your quotation marks. This is such a common lie amongst those of cheating mindset there's even a book with the title - Not "just friends" by Shirley Glass.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

petemcr said:


> I've tried to forward on a note from my phone, not easy, 5 clicks easy, so again another lie or so it seems.


Then the alternative explanation is what? That she sent them to you _deliberately_?


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Married but Happy said:


> Then the alternative explanation is what? That she sent them to you _deliberately_?


That she was sending them to her friend intentionally, and accidentally included him in it.


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## petemcr (Aug 7, 2017)

samyeagar said:


> That she was sending them to her friend intentionally, and accidentally included him in it.


Mix of both stories, she was sending them to her friend and then while she was selecting contacts she's accidentally pressed on me


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

I understand it is a painful decision to move on because of what she has that is good.

But you have been given a gift. An early insight into how she operates. Don't waste it. She is sneaky and deceitful and she's shown in multiple ways.

What if she got pregnant tomorrow? Would you be ok with that? If not, I wouldn't be with her.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Double post....sorry.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

petemcr said:


> and I don't like painting her in a bad light here, she is an amazing person, she's caring, attentive, a lot of traits anyone would be happy to have in a relationship.


Pretzel logic.

Let me ask you a question. Do you have a problem with her and this doctor having sex or the sexual nature of the texts? Just answer yes or no without an explanation.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Well your wife slept with a married man who happened to be telling the truth. Others didn't work out that way.
> I've heard from women who purposefully went after married men knowing they were easy and low maintenance. Those girls would have an out of norm experience.
> Sleeping with 1 married men does not send up red flags. Sometimes people need to make mistakes to learn and grow.
> 
> ...


I think OP has a problem with the fact she is ok with cheating. 

Not her history. 

Two separate things.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

TX-SC said:


> I can only bring my own personal situation into the discussion. When I was in college, I had an affair with a married woman. I felt horrible about it later in life, and do so now. I have never cheated on a partner, including my wife of 21 years. I don't think you can necessarily equate the two. The fact that she had a relationship with a married guy does not mean that she has low regard for marriage or that she will cheat on you. I am proof of that.
> 
> Honestly, I've never discussed it with my wife. It happened several years before I met her and is in no way something that dictates my own views on marriage. It's just one part of my past, albeit the one part I'm not proud of.
> 
> I think I would just have a talk with her about honesty. If that part can be worked out, I wouldn't have an issue moving forward with the relationship.


So if you were not married now you would sleep with another mans wife? No you wouldn't. 

OP's gf went back twice. She sees no problems with cheating. She is not feeling bad about it like you did. 

Some poeple are just ok sleeping with someone else's partner like OP's girl friend.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> See, I wouldn't be with someone who's phone wasn't unlocked or accessible to me so there would be no hacking. If I sent him something accidentally, I would delete it. It wasn't for him. I have conversations with my gfs about sex and other topics that I don't want sent to my bf. Doesn't mean I'm super suspicious, it's that the conversation wasn't meant for him therefore should be deleted.


Wow!


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Me being and expecting openness isn't the same as him reading every conversation I have with my girlfriends. It's not hidden, my stuff is always open but I do expect he not read everything I ever talk to a friend about. If he got sent something that was meant for a gf, I'd see no problem deleting it. I'm not going to read his conversations with male friends. I don't need to know what they talk about and I give him privacy enough to talk with his guy friends without his girlfriend spying. But I do need his phone accessible for me. And I give and expect the same.
> 
> I talk to my gfs about all kinds of things he doesn't need to hear about. Ex- Currently a group of us are having a FB conversation about our past experiences with micro penises. It's not a conversation for him to read, or anyone other than those of us involved with it. Doesn't mean I am hiding it or keeping it a secret, it's just not for him. If the messages accidentally got sent to him I'd delete them. They were for the girls, not for my bf.


Do you lie to your bf?


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> We often see threads here on TAM in which other posts are encouraging the male OP to go out and start dating before their divorce is final. Often times even before it's filed.
> 
> That's what this doctor apparently did, or lead the OP's gf to believe he was doing.
> 
> ...


Depends on the situation. If the doctor is saying I'm getting a divorce and had his own place is one thing. 

If doctor is saying I'm getting a divorce and is still with his wife is something completely different. 

We don't know how far part was the two times she was with him. 

All we do know is that the doctor was married and she was having sex with him at the gym.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

ABHale said:


> Depends on the situation. If the doctor is saying I'm getting a divorce and had his own place is one thing.
> 
> If doctor is saying I'm getting a divorce and is still with his wife is something completely different.
> 
> ...


In actual fact you only know what the op has told us about the doctor.It's a well documented fact that doctors are one of the least faithful people around.You or anyone else on this thread can only comment on the information provided.
You have five posts in less than half an hour making passive aggressive comments about either the girlfriend in question or else another poster.I'm not sure whether something is triggering you or did you take an instant dislike to the girl but passive aggressively attacking anyone who's opinion you disagree with makes me suspect the former.
The op is looking for opinions and advice on his situation not someone with a personal axe to grind.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

NVM baited derail


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