# 23 year Marriage is now 3 Years Sexless and I can't take it



## AJoutWest (Jul 30, 2010)

Huge step for me, but I feel very alone, very hurt and very confused and for a first post, I guess I'm reaching out for support, insight and advice. I have been married for 23 years to my wife. My wife has always suffered from severe migranes that are mainly hormonal induced (related to her cycle). 3 years ago she went on Topamax and some other medications and that ended her sex drive though it vastly improved her migrane situation. At that point our regular sex life of 1-2x a week went to 1x a year. The last time we had sex was over a year ago and in the 3 years we have had it only 3 times. 

My wife is happy to hold hands but no kissing, but no physical intimacy. She complains of a low back pain that is real. She has also said that over this time when we have made love I either scratch her with my finger during foreplay and because of oral sex, she gets a yeast infection. The result is she doesn't want to do it. 

About a week ago, we arranged to try to do the deed and she just laid there and then complained. There was no excitement, no wanting to share the intimacy but it was like her duty to do it. I don't want that. Actually by the end, she was laughing and thinking the whole attempt was a joke. 

So I sought some advice and found a book called The Sex Lives of Wives, Re-Igniting the Passion. There are part of the books that I know aren't for us (three some etc) but the basic premise of the book is. That premise is that we have to each ignite the passion within us, and for women, they really need to take control of it and by doing so they will get what they want. The second chapter was an eye opener for both of us, where it talks about Aubrey and that everything in Aubrey's life came before her intimate relationship with her husband, and she faced the deed as her duty. Her husband was tired of that and wanted a partner and lover, a wife back. Aubrey realized that without strengthening that aspect of her marriage, that her marriage would ultimately fail, and that would mean her family would fail, and in the end, she would be alone. That is not what she wanted. 

After sharing this I got a comment of how long had I been saving that up for? I then explained to my wife that I could no longer be in a sexless marriage. That is when she said "Look, I know your hurt by the other night, but to be frank, I don't want to do it with you because you hurt me so I don't look forward to it." Realize for 20 years before that there was no problem, but, listening, I replied that is fine. Then how about you teach me what you want and I'll do it? In terms of her back, both our PCP and online I have found positions that should alleviate the pain and make sex enjoyable for her. I then wanted a commitment that she would be willing to begin going through a journey with me to be physically intimate and communicate openly what both of us like and want with the other be honest about their feelings on it and then together reaching a place where we both want to not only be with each other, but we actually anticipate have sex with each other again. 

So you know, she works full time in finance, teaches music which she is paid for but is something she loves and is a hobby for her; helps our two teens (senior and junior) and then her father who has moderately severe Alzheimer is now living with us so that is like having another kid (a whole set of issues). She is also taking care of her mother who is in a retirement community and is their trustee for their estate. Lots going on. I have lots going on to, career, the teens, my mother, a hobby etc. What I want is for us to schedule time for us, to turn the TV in the room off at 9:00p.m. and spent from 9:00 to 10:00p.m. being intimate (doesn't always have to be the act). I want to look into my wife's eyes when we make love and see that she desires me, wants me and needs me. It use to be there. It isn't. 

So here is where I am at. She has agreed but in August after things "settle" with her parents. I said no later than August 15th and I pointed out that there are always excuses, and our marriage is really, really rocky right now. I made it clear if not that the alternative will not be fun and that will be divorce but that is not my goal. So how do I ignite the passion again? Is my plan a good one? I don't want to lose my marriage BUT more so, I can't feel this way anymore and despite the many weaknesses I have, I deserve to feel the love and intimacy I crave. Advice is appreciated.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Sounds like a good plan.

Your hands are clean so don't second guess yourself.

Good luck.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

This is fair. 

One partner unilaterally shutting down like that is very very hurtful and shows a total lack of consideration for their spouse.



AJoutWest said:


> Huge step for me, but I feel very alone, very hurt and very confused and for a first post, I guess I'm reaching out for support, insight and advice. I have been married for 23 years to my wife. My wife has always suffered from severe migranes that are mainly hormonal induced (related to her cycle). 3 years ago she went on Topamax and some other medications and that ended her sex drive though it vastly improved her migrane situation. At that point our regular sex life of 1-2x a week went to 1x a year. The last time we had sex was over a year ago and in the 3 years we have had it only 3 times.
> 
> My wife is happy to hold hands but no kissing, but no physical intimacy. She complains of a low back pain that is real. She has also said that over this time when we have made love I either scratch her with my finger during foreplay and because of oral sex, she gets a yeast infection. The result is she doesn't want to do it.
> 
> ...


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## HappyHer (Nov 12, 2009)

You've stated your boundaries, and now stop talking about the sex. She will feel threatened, pressured, and resentful.

Instead, start seducing her again as you did when you first starting courting her. Sex for women is the culmination of romance and passion, not sex for sex sake. 

Are there family members that can watch the kids and her father for a long week-end? Even if it's just one night away in a hotel - or heck, even all alone at your own house, might help create some romance.

Also, has she seen her doctor about her low sex drive? He/she may be able to suggest something.


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## HappyHer (Nov 12, 2009)

Sorry, forgot to mention - tell her that you DON'T want to have sex with her again until sometime in August, that you want to just enjoy each other's company without that hanging over your head. That will give her some time to relax and perhaps drop her guard a bit over the whole situation and maybe even help her want it more again.


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## AJoutWest (Jul 30, 2010)

Thanks for the advice. I'll be honest, I have little hope it will work, not because i won't put the effort in, but she won't. Sometimes I just feel like I need to find someone I can just do the deed with. I don't need advice that that doesn't help, I know that. I just need the intimacy, affection and to be honest the sex. 

I had planned to wine and dine her. First date is planned. Take my Pathfinder up in the mountains near a running creek and have a picnic. talk (we have no problem doing that) and making out. I think no sex through August will be very easy for her but we'll see as I increase the charm and the dating.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I feel your attitude, your desires, your way of going about this with your wife is completely fair and utterly HONORABLE. 

You have given her the opportunity to - and even some time -after 3 loooonnnnnngggg years of this, to get herself together, contemplate on what is truly important in life, IF you are part of that, or if she still wants to continue on the same path, casually pushing you aside, trampling on your needs as a husband. 

Yes, she has some problems, but it does not take much to please a man sexually, so many ways, if she can do all that she does daily, she CAN make this time for you, and show some interest. An hour a night to hold each other, the desire to rekindle what has long been lost, this is vital, for any marraige. 

Stand your ground. I sincerely hope this heartfelt opening up on your part, coupled with your ongoing patience, in the midst of severe frustration will help her see the light /shake her a little, and just what she stands to LOOSE if sincere changes are not met. 

We all deserve to be wanted & desired by our spouses, it IS what makes life worth living and brings abounding joy to our sometimes mundane lives.


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## AJoutWest (Jul 30, 2010)

SimplyAmorous, 

Thank you. You made me cry (I wear my emotion openly), it is indeed a dark and lonely road. It doesn't take much to please me, foreplay, intercourse and snuggle. To be honest what I want is the afterglow after sex is over, that time when both bodies are relaxed and content and it is just the two of you. 

I am going to stand my ground and one thing I've decided besides ensuring I date her is that regardless of what her attitude is for the next little while, mine will be honest, sincere, loving, complimentary and a communication that truly, the only person I want is her. We did have a nice make out session for about 8 minutes and it made her somewhat uncomfortable. It was nice and I got a sincere compliment, that she had forgotten "What a good kisser you are."


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

AJ,
The professionals talk about 3 phases in sex:
- desire
- arousal
- orgasm

My W rarely feels desire. She has always been that way. But she has also always been fine with letting me get her aroused. And for that reason we have always had a high frequency sex life. My W can be aroused through a simple 3 step process:
- back, neck and scalp massage (this simply relaxes her)
- lower back, butt and inner thigh massage (this gets her wound up nicely)

At that point we can roll into normal foreplay and it is fun for both of us. If you "assert" yourself you can likely get your W to teach you how to arouse her even though she does not initially feel "desire". 

If my W, who I love very much for many reasons, had adopted the posture that we could only have sex when she felt "desire", she would have become my ex-wife a long, long time ago. I meet ALL of her needs, this is the ONLY need I have that I am totally dependent on her for, I simply would not tolerate being ignored in this area. And to be clear, my NEED is not to come, I can do that by myself in 5 minutes, my NEED is to feel loved, and I cannot really feel that unless we are having regular sex.

But the only person who can teach you how to arouse her, is your W. If she makes this a guessing game you will likely lose your mind with frustration and fail. 




AJoutWest said:


> SimplyAmorous,
> 
> Thank you. You made me cry (I wear my emotion openly), it is indeed a dark and lonely road. It doesn't take much to please me, foreplay, intercourse and snuggle. To be honest what I want is the afterglow after sex is over, that time when both bodies are relaxed and content and it is just the two of you.
> 
> I am going to stand my ground and one thing I've decided besides ensuring I date her is that regardless of what her attitude is for the next little while, mine will be honest, sincere, loving, complimentary and a communication that truly, the only person I want is her. We did have a nice make out session for about 8 minutes and it made her somewhat uncomfortable. It was nice and I got a sincere compliment, that she had forgotten "What a good kisser you are."


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## AJoutWest (Jul 30, 2010)

Well, we had a talk yesterday and it was interesting. She tried to bring out that her back hurting etc. is like having cancer and I squashed that because I said there are different positions to try that won't hurt the low back and then proceeded to show her. Next we went through different things she could still do with me even if it wasn't intercourse. Finally, I got the term I hate, "I'll think about it." That means no and I told her that. I said over the next several weeks we need to work this out or it does mean the highway. Her attitude was if you go I'm not taking you back. My reply was simply to state "If you love me like you state, it shouldn't have to come to that." I then explained the difference between what she perceives as needs and what my needs actually are. I guess were talking about it and that is a start. She is on the kick besides health that sex isn't marriage and though I agree a successful marriage is made up of many elements, I told her if you look at any marriage relationship it started out as a romantic one that developed into more over time, but the foundation is the romance. Remove the romance, you remove the foundation and the marriage will fall apart. 

She also commented that she has noted that I have changed and am giving her my undivided attention and affection when we are together. She likes that and I told her there is a way to keep that up, its called sexual intimacy. 

On the kick about sex and romance I reminded her of a time in our lives when we were separated about 12 years ago and I was working back east and living there. She chose to stay out west with the kids at that time. She also flew out at one point and spent a Thursday through Sunday with me to figure out where we were at and we ended up that weekend having sex literally six to eight times each day. I said that solidified for me that I wanted to work out the relationship and she knew by me having sex that is what it meant. At this point I simply reminded her that sex will bind me to her very strongly or it can drive us apart. I want her and want to be with her. Balls in her court now. I stopped at that point and she wanted to talk more but I simply said we had talked enough and it was time for both of us to process. 

We'll see where this ends up going.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Here, women often obey Oprah and therefore they obey Dr. Oz and what he says is gospel:

http://static.oprah.com/download/pdfs/health/oz/oz_antiaging_checklist.pdf

A lot of women respect the Great Oz over their own husband so there you go. Print that out and give it to her and tell her you are focusing on your health as a couple.

"Monogamous sex 2-3x/week" is necessary for health and anti-aging.

You are actually doing her favor by getting her to engage in monogamous sexual relations.

Rather than what she thinks, that she is doing you some favor. 

As far as her telling you if you walk out the door, she'll never take you back. . .my wife smugly said the same thing. It's fine. . .let it go. It's a game of blink or chicken and you know what?

Morally, you are driving a mac truck loaded up and she's driving a little VW.

After 3 years of no sex and no extenuating circumstances, it's safe to say there is no marriage. Without the marriage being in a state of consummation, it is *not *valid. It can be annulled religiously which means it frankly never existed.

So the "marriage is made of multiple elements" is a misdirect on her part and you did right by deflecting her misdirect.

A marriage with no sex is like a house with no bathrooms. It's not even a house. . .it's some other kind of institution - a friendship, a partnership, whatever. . .but it's not a marriage.

Good luck.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Even if my W had a very low drive I would need to know that making ME happy makes her happy. Because sure as the sun will rise in the morning - making HER happy makes ME happy. I do lots of stuff just to see her smile. 





Scannerguard said:


> Here, women often obey Oprah and therefore they obey Dr. Oz and what he says is gospel:
> 
> http://static.oprah.com/download/pdfs/health/oz/oz_antiaging_checklist.pdf
> 
> ...


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## HappyHer (Nov 12, 2009)

That's a great article! The optimum amount of sex per week is three to four times a week, especially for men and lowering risk of particular types of cancer, but if you aren't getting it, two to three times a week might seem like a miracle.


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## AJoutWest (Jul 30, 2010)

All I see are mirages in the desert in terms of sex in my marriage. Last night on a drive home from dinner I asked if she enjoyed me holding her hand more often. "It's fine" was the reply. I asked her to define fine and it meant neutral, neither good or bad. That hurt. I'm beginning to see that she may not want to change at all and she is hoping that if she has sex once, I'll forget about it and it will all go back to how it has been. Nope, not going back. Time for us to be romantic again, to make changes or to begin to make other changes.


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