# embarrasing sexual question regarding dealbreaker



## Betrayed2DMax (Aug 4, 2016)

I have lurked around here for sometime, 1yr out from W affair that lasted 2 months (EA/PA, I discovered). Married for 16 years with 3 kids. 

She did some TT at the beginning weeks but swares I have all the details, its so embarrassing for me to ask this, but she did give him oral sex a couple times (in car) but she says she never swallowed and always pulled away when the AP was about to finish, t_hing is for me its a deal breaker if she swallowed_....

sorry for the dirty and sickening question and details, its so embarrasing to disclose this even if its on an anonymous internet forum, never in my life would I thought I would be talking about this devastating blow to my manhood. She swares she didnt, and has never wavered on that point (I have *not* told her this would be a deal breaker)....what can I do? how do I find out the truth?

Our R is going good with her doing the heavy lifting so thats not as much a issue as its the disgusting sexual details.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

So you're OK with her having another guys junk in her mouth, but not with her swallowing it when he came??? You do know what precum is, right?

Priority adjustment required please help!


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

There is no way she can prove that she didn't swallow. You will never have a definitive "no," but she may at some point give you a definitive "yes." The real question you need to ask yourself is if this is something you can live with. I couldn't. There are people who continue to be triggered with jealousy, doubt and rage years, even decades after their partner's infidelity. If you can't put this in the past and move forward, best to move on.

I find it odd that a blowjob doesnt cross the line but swallowing does, but you're entitled to your own boundaries.


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## oskar (Aug 4, 2016)

She has every reason to lie because you've TOLD her it's a dealbreaker.

There is no way you will ever know the truth. 

Either accept this and find a way to live with it, or suffer with the endless mind loops.

I must say I'm baffled at where you chose to draw your line.

Like another poster said, what about precum? What if he dribbled a little bit in your wife's mouth. Would that be ok?


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Ummm .... Honestly you will never know. You have two choices:

1) Take her word for it and work on your R

2) Don't take her word for it, always have the image of her swallowing in the back of your head, realize you can't handle it, and eventually end things.

I don't understand why a BJ sans swallow is "acceptable" but swallowing is not, but hey, to each their own.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

Along with the others, yeah why is oral sex OK but swallowing isn't? Whatever.

Does she swallow for you? If so, she probably swallowed for him. Why would she change? It's not like it's another line to cross (in yours it is but probably not to her).


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

She gave him oral more than once, in the car, and they were having an affair and he went back for more cause she didn't swallow? I don't know man, if you were going through the effort to have an affair with some chick, and she is essing your dee in the car, and you go back for more, it's cause she finished the deal.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

oskar said:


> She has every reason to lie because you've TOLD her it's a dealbreaker.


No, he hasn't.



> She swares she didnt, and has never wavered on that point (I have *not* told her this would be a deal breaker)....what can I do? how do I find out the truth?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Herschel said:


> essing your dee


LOL never seen that one before.


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

Perhaps his wife never swallowed for the husband and should he find out she did for the OM, it is a dealbreaker. I can understand that boundary.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

I didn’t read anywhere where he said that what she did was “ok”. He’s saying that he has accepted there was an affair and they are in R, but if he finds out that she swallowed, it’s a deal breaker. Not my circus to figure out why that particular detail makes it a deal breaker. 

My thought is probably that she doesn’t swallow for HIM so if he finds out she swallowed for the other guy, that’s a deal breaker because she could give that to the other guy but not him. Otherwise, I’m not sure why the swallowing would matter.

However, this isn’t such a shock if she DIDN’T swallow. Not every woman does. For many years with my husband he would let me know when he was going to finish and I could either make the choice to keep it in my mouth or pull it out and finish it with my hand. Also, maybe not such a shocker because I didn’t finish the BJ from my own ONS. I stopped less than a minute in. She could be telling the truth about that part. And if he hasn’t told her that’s his deal breaker, how would she know to say that never happened – UNLESS she doesn’t do it for him?


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

Is the real issue you want her to swallow for you? If so, just ask her to.


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## Betrayed2DMax (Aug 4, 2016)

I have intentionally NOT told her its a dealbreaker, to the contrary, I have lied and told her is just that I need to know the entire depth of the betrayal in order to forgive, and I have never lost my cool with her when she has disclosed other sexual details.

I dont know why this specific swallowing aspect is a dealbreaker, am sorry I dont have a good answer for that, so please dont ask because I dont know, is just not acceptable to my mind. 
Yes she does swallow for me for years and still does, and we were sexually active during this whole ordeal which sickens me. She wanted to share her body with someone else, fine, its hers....but I never ever wanted to share my body with anyone else even if indirectly. No one except her parents know about the affair.

Please dont bash, this is extremely difficult, sensitive and a deep struggle for me, a lot its at stake if I divorce because of it, kids will be heavily impacted as I am the bread winner by a very long shot.

I am hesitant to disclose this too, but I have a very sensitive position where peoples lives are at my hands by the hundreds, thou only a few times a week, as I dont actively direct hands on as much anymore, am more in a managerial role now.....I am an air traffic controller at a major traffic control sector center of the US airspace....my head and mind have to be in tip top shape as you would imagine. I have received professional help and did take several weeks off soon after the A was discovered.....I hesitated for several min before I hit post for this message....god help me....


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

I hear you, not every woman finishes. But most men wouldn't go through the effort of getting multiple BJs if they weren't to completion. Talk about a turn off during what is supposed to be an extremely titillating situation. It's possible, but I'd put 5:1 odds on it.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

LosingHim said:


> My thought is probably that she doesn’t swallow for HIM so if he finds out she swallowed for the other guy, that’s a deal breaker because she could give that to the other guy but not him. Otherwise, I’m not sure why the swallowing would matter.


You could be right. So, OP, what's the story?


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

Betrayed2DMax said:


> I dont know why this specific swallowing aspect is a dealbreaker, am sorry I dont have a good answer for that, so please dont ask because I dont know, is just not acceptable to my mind.


If the act of swallowing is the difference between marriage and divorce, why even consider staying. A) It will chew you up (no pun intended) the entire time because you will NEVER know unless she tells you she did, which is the worst case scenario and B) you are on such thin ice right now, why even make it about finishing the job.

So, really, your best bet is just to end it now, save yourself years of anguish of never knowing and find a woman who treats you right. The kids will be fine. The money issue may suck...but it's better than living with the agony.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Betrayed2DMax said:


> I have intentionally NOT told her its a dealbreaker, to the contrary, I have lied and told her is just that I need to know the entire depth of the betrayal in order to forgive, and I have never lost my cool with her when she has disclosed other sexual details.
> 
> I dont know why this specific swallowing aspect is a dealbreaker, am sorry I dont have a good answer for that, so please dont ask because I dont know, is just not acceptable to my mind.
> Yes she does swallow for me for years and still does, and we were sexually active during this whole ordeal which sickens me. She wanted to share her body with someone else, fine, its hers....but I never ever wanted to share my body with anyone else even if indirectly. No one except her parents know about the affair.
> ...


Thank you for this. 

It might be wise to investigate the reason that swallowing is your dealbreaker. That might be the only way you ever find peace here.

There are MANY of us here who have had to make peace with things we will never ever know for absolutely sure. And what it boiled down to for me was that I had to let it go. I had to get to a point where I believed him when he told me there was only one hooker and that there were no hook ups before that. Otherwise it was game over.

If you can't do that, you need to end it.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

Herschel said:


> I hear you, not every woman finishes. But most men wouldn't go through the effort of getting multiple BJs if they weren't to completion. Talk about a turn off during what is supposed to be an extremely titillating situation. It's possible, but I'd put 5:1 odds on it.


I didn’t take it to mean he didn’t get to FINISH, I took it to mean he didn’t get to finish – IN HER MOUTH.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Herschel said:


> I hear you, not every woman finishes. But most men wouldn't go through the effort of getting multiple BJs if they weren't to completion. Talk about a turn off during what is supposed to be an extremely titillating situation. It's possible, but I'd put 5:1 odds on it.


I don't think the issue is finishing. It sounds like the OP is fine if the guy blew his load all over the car, as long as it wasn't in his Ws mouth. Is that correct OP?


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

LosingHim said:


> I didn’t take it to mean he didn’t get to FINISH, I took it to mean he didn’t get to finish – IN HER MOUTH.


I said she finished. Not him. Of course he finished... As in, she finished the job. 

The enjoyment factor of the man finishing outside the oral receptacle really diminishes the enjoyment of the action taking place.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

EllisRedding said:


> I don't think the issue is finishing. It sounds like the OP is fine if the guy blew his load all over the car, as long as it wasn't in his Ws mouth. Is that correct OP?


It's a common colloquialism to say that a woman finishes, she has swallowed the semen. She finished the job. That is what I was referring to.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Herschel said:


> It's a common colloquialism to say that a woman finishes, she has swallowed the semen. She finished the job. That is what I was referring to.


Gotcha, never heard of that before


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Yeah, I guess a good analogy would be like the affair represents a stick in the eye. Swallowing would be like sticking a Bowie knife in your eye and twisting it. 

She can always argue that the stick in the eye was kind of an accident... Sort of like his d!ck just fell in her mouth or her vagina. That $hit happens all the time you know. 

Swallowing pretty much means she liked it...and there's no coming back from that.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

Betrayed2DMax said:


> I am an air traffic controller at a major traffic control sector center of the US airspace....my head and mind have to be in tip top shape as you would imagine. I have received professional help and did take several weeks off soon after the A was discovered.....I hesitated for several min before I hit post for this message....god help me....


Hey, man, it will be okay. YOU will be okay. Stay strong and, as hard as it is, keep some perspective. Many, many people have been where you are and, although it's terrible in the moment, everyone eventually does pass through. Loving communication is the place to start. I wish you happiness and success with your R. Just remember that whatever happens, when you act in good faith with intention, whatever outcome you arrive at will be the right one.

PS - I have relatives who are pilots, I and my H both fly often, and yours is a very responsible role. Thank you for your service and your care.


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

How did you find out about the affair? Did she tell you or did you find out by investigating, etc.?


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## oskar (Aug 4, 2016)

I forgot how freaking cute Mary Ann was.

She's like the only surviving cast member at this point. 

Maybe Ginger too but she's gotten REALLY old.


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## Betrayed2DMax (Aug 4, 2016)

thanks to all for the feedback. I receive frequent and very intense training to deal with conflicting and difficult situations (and have actually faced many in non-training situations, some unfortunately including loss of life) using facts with very little time, this in itself might be the reason 
I am unable to make a decision without some sort of tangible evidence. 

A divorce, while obviously possible, would introduce several challenges for me, family and even my career, as such a situation would mandate a leave of absence for security and safety reasons, which you can understand. 

There are a lot of things I have gotten past thou, in regards to PIV sex, she has also always claimed protection was used and she was extremely worried of pregnancy, she also has stated the AP never finished PIV for some reason he coudlnt ( btw, I am "fixed", so it could have never been from me if she did get pregnant), so for whatever reason am more at peace with this.

I must take a break for a while, I am actually off this week, but honestly discussing any of this is very difficult, I can only handle small steps at a time....I will return later today.


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## oskar (Aug 4, 2016)

Betrayed2DMax said:


> A divorce, while obviously possible, would introduce several challenges for me, family and even my career, as such a situation would mandate a leave of absence for security and safety reasons, which you can understand.


I don't understand why you'd have to take a leave of absence from your job due to security and safety reasons if you divorce. I mean, divorce is stressful for sure but it can't be much worse than what you're going through right now. 

Have you watched Breaking Bad by any chance?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Whether or not she swallowed for him, she should be doing it for you now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

GusPolinski said:


> Whether or not she swallowed for him, she should be doing it for you now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


IF you want her to.


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## oskar (Aug 4, 2016)

Hope1964 said:


> IF you want her to.


That's like saying "if you like ice cream"


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## stillthinking (Jun 1, 2016)

Polygraph. Simple. You demand one as a condition of R. You make the swallow issue one of the questions.

Then you will know.

If she balks and does not want to take it, then you know there is more she is keeping from you.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

oskar said:


> That's like saying "if you like ice cream"


Not everyone likes ice cream. :grin2:

He may not want her anywhere near him right now. If he doesn't, he shouldn't let her. Many cheating women use sex as a way to keep their BH on the hook.


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## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

EllisRedding said:


> Ummm .... Honestly you will never know. You have two choices:
> 
> 1) Take her word for it and work on your R
> 
> ...


I agree. This is madness. There's a very good chance she did swallow. Have her take a polygraph and study her reactions. Actually have her take it anyway.


Then the OP said this: *She wanted to share her body with someone else, fine, its hers....

*

Uh, no, that is not fine. That's called cheating, and by you saying it's fine, you are saying you're fine with cheating. As husband and wife, you both have exclusive access to each other's bodies, and no one else should partake of it.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Could this be why I wanted *no* details of my wife's affair? At all? Whatsoever?

Probably.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Herschel said:


> I said she finished. Not him. Of course he finished... As in, she finished the job.
> 
> 
> 
> The enjoyment factor of the man finishing outside the oral receptacle really diminishes the enjoyment of the action taking place.




A LOT of women don't finish in the mouth. And frankly, a lot of cheaters go back for a variety of reasons including getting their ego stroked. We have NO way to know how the BJ ended . And a bj can be satisfying ending different ways other that popping in the mouth. If you're good


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Betrayed2DMax said:


> I am unable to make a decision without some sort of tangible evidence.
> 
> A divorce, while obviously possible, would introduce several challenges for me, family and even my career, as such a situation would mandate a leave of absence for security and safety reasons, which you can understand.


Airline captain here. Yeah I understand the pressures you're putting on yourself in addition to the normal stress of discovering the A and trying to fix the marriage. Take the time off if you need to. You should have decent benefits to cover time off. Also, be sure to take care of yourself during this time with good exercise, nutrition, and sleep. That's easier said than done, I know, as I'm going through it right now.

First off, there is no way you'll ever know the truth. Cheaters always lie and always trickle truth. They are careful to not cross over any lines they perceive to be deal-breakers when admitting what happened. I bet from the way you asked the question and the look on your face that she knows this is likely a deal-breaker for you.

You could require a polygraph as part of R. Don't focus ahead of time on the swallowing or she will be alerted to it. They will ask 3 questions, repeated and in similar but different wordings. You would have her provide you with a written timeline of the affair with sexual act details (perhaps list the acts separate from the timeline) in advance of the poly. Then one question in the poly would be did she give you the full truth in what she wrote out. Another question would be if she has had any other affairs besides this one.

In general you should be following the usual strategy for getting through the first part of D-Day and then proceeding into a real Reconciliation. Don't use your job as an excuse to let things slide! Call in sick if you have to, but tend to your marriage/reconciliation/divorce.

I think you are perhaps using a false or unattainable trigger to make your decision for you. "If she did X, then I will divorce her". Ok I understand this act is emotionally really important to you, but why? You don't have to answer here, and in fact I'd suggest you take advantage of your EAP to talk to a good counselor about this. Anyhow, we all have that line in the sand. Kiss, saying I Love You, oral sex, etc. But she has gone so far down the road into a full on sexual PA that your line in the sand strikes me as one of two things. Either you're afraid to pull the trigger on D with what you already know, so you've set up an nearly impossible threshold to reach. Or, you want to D and have come up with something you want to be able to hang your hat on.

The big problem is she had an affair and all the lying and deception that goes with it. The problem isn't did she do X in addition to A through W. A through W are more than enough justification for anybody to divorce, but some people choose to try R. Act X shouldn't be more weight than all the lies and deception in my opinion.

If you were telling us you have huge problems with the lies and deception then I'd be more receptive to your line in the sand of swallowing.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Hope1964 said:


> IF you want her to.


Agreed.

Either PIV or oral -- much less BOTH of them, and _regardless_ of condoms or swallowing -- should've been more than enough to prompt him to divorce.

And that may be what winds up happening in the end anyway.

But hey -- as long as he's there...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

Herschel said:


> I said she finished. Not him. Of course he finished... As in, she finished the job.
> 
> The enjoyment factor of the man finishing outside the oral receptacle really diminishes the enjoyment of the action taking place.


I'm not a man so I can't really argue whether or not that's true, but my husband could honestly care less if I swallow or not. My husband wants to finish where *I* want him to finish. Although he occasionally will request to finish on a certain spot - inside, on my stomach, whatever strikes his mood at the time, otherwise he asks ME where I want it. 

So I don't think it's fair to say that all men feel the act is diminished if the woman doesn't allow it in her mouth or swallows afterwards.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

She cheated on you, so you have every right to leave if you want. 

There is no way you can know for sure what she did with him and there is always the possibility that you will find out later that she did something else. 

So either accept and forgive that she may have engaged in every sort of sexual behavior possible, or end the marriage. You will do neither her or yourself a favor by staying in a relationship where there is no trust, and an unanswerable suspicion that something unacceptable happened. 

It is your choice. Leave or forgive. Just don't stay and not forgive.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Cheaters lie. 

and lie...

and lie...


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

LosingHim said:


> I'm not a man so I can't really argue whether or not that's true, but my husband could honestly care less if I swallow or not. My husband wants to finish where *I* want him to finish. Although he occasionally will request to finish on a certain spot - inside, on my stomach, whatever strikes his mood at the time, otherwise he asks ME where I want it.
> 
> So I don't think it's fair to say that all men feel the act is diminished if the woman doesn't allow it in her mouth or swallows afterwards.


Generally speaking, the act is diminished only when there is a sudden stop w/ no option for some sort of _cooperative_ release.


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## 1111volcano (May 25, 2016)

I'm thinking giving him head would be a deal breaker 

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

BTDM,

Have your WW write out a timeline of what happened in the affair, places, times, sex acts, persons etc.

Get her a polygraph. If she has told the complete truth she will go willingly.

Waywards love to minimize, she is lying to you and she knows it.

You can come to peace if you get the details, but knowing that your WW is still lying to you will keep you from recovering for years, actually decades in my case.

You need to speak with the other mans wife or girlfriend. 

Tamat


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

BTDM,

I really tend to doubt that your WW did not swallow, one reason being that the emotions of an affair are so intense and the desire so powerful that everything is on the menu.

Sorry you have to deal with this, but it has to be dealt with rug sweeping does not work. 

Tamat


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

LosingHim said:


> I'm not a man so I can't really argue whether or not that's true, but my husband could honestly care less if I swallow or not. My husband wants to finish where *I* want him to finish. Although he occasionally will request to finish on a certain spot - inside, on my stomach, whatever strikes his mood at the time, otherwise he asks ME where I want it.
> 
> So I don't think it's fair to say that all men feel the act is diminished if the woman doesn't allow it in her mouth or swallows afterwards.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Obviously there are circumstances that alter how good it feels or what you want. I am usually referring to standard stand alone blow jobs, especially ones in unusual locations, like in a car, and with two people doing something illicit. Yeah, if the deed is being done, the release is the most important part. But I'll still stand by that most men prefer to finish down the gullet as it allows oral stimulus as ejaculation occurs as well as clean up is much easier.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

But would he really believe a polygraph? They are far from perfect, some will claim that they are useless. Is he willing to decide the rest of his life based on the results of one. 





TAMAT said:


> BTDM,
> 
> Have your WW write out a timeline of what happened in the affair, places, times, sex acts, persons etc.
> 
> ...


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## Spellbound (Apr 16, 2016)

Apologies for the side bar topic, but: I get a man wanting to stay in her mouth to completion, but does she really have to swallow it? Can't she discretely remove the majority with a tissue or is that too much of a rejection? I'm generally good with the completion thing, but swallowing with out gagging takes and iron act of will. Husband is cool with the tissue, but still pushes me to swallow and sometimes gets his feelings hurt if I don't.


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

You can argue all you we ain't to about polygraphs, but you have absolutely no other option to have any chance to find out about the swallowing if that is vital to you.

And just bringing T it up, you may get a confession one way or the other.

If you need to know and refuse to pull out all the stops to find out, then it is your decision to never know


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

straightshooter said:


> you can argue all you we ain't to about polygraphs, but you have absolutely no other option to have any chance to find out about the swallowing if that is vital to you.
> 
> And just bringing t it up, you may get a confession one way or the other.
> 
> If you need to know and refuse to pull out all the stops to find out, then it is your decision to never know


^ this 100% ^


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Betrayed2DMax said:


> I have lurked around here for sometime, 1yr out from W affair that lasted 2 months (EA/PA, I discovered). Married for 16 years with 3 kids.
> 
> She did some TT at the beginning weeks but swares I have all the details, its so embarrassing for me to ask this, but she did give him oral sex a couple times (in car) but she says she never swallowed and always pulled away when the AP was about to finish, t_hing is for me its a deal breaker if she swallowed_....
> 
> ...


I totally get your deal breaker. Don't let anyone try to convince you that it shouldn't matter. It does, so it does.

If she knew this was important to you, she would have minimized it.

Did she always swallow? If so, then I'm afraid she probably did.

If she didn't do it right away for you then perhaps not.

The threatened polygraph (tell her you've scheduled it) with the advance warning that any further lies will result in divorce is the only option. If she's willing, I'd be prepared to try and believe her.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

I don't understand how oral carries much less weight than PIV sex. I'm somewhat perplexed with the comments such as, "well at least she only gave him a BJ". I guess now its extremely bad news to hear that the wife allowed him to insert his pecker in her vj but not such a big deal if he only uses it to irrigate her tonsils. I guess times have changed.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

OP

Due to your sensitivity over the swallowing issue,

plus the fact that you will NEVER know for sure,

plus the fact that your career requires absolute mental focus and clarity,

you should get a divorce.


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## thebirdman (Apr 5, 2014)

As the one time perpetrator of some extremely poor interpersonal decisions, let me give you a piece of advice: Do not, and I mean this, DO NOT ask questions you don't want answers to. It is ok to be curious but be general in your inquiries. You WILL get answers that you won't like and when you do, it will leave your anxieties just as unresolved as they were before you asked. If you can't deal with that, time to move on.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Affair sex is always hotter than married sex. And you say she swallows for you. The chances she didn't for him are nil...unless of course she did something even worse. Something she doesn't do for you.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Spellbound said:


> Apologies for the side bar topic, but: I get a man wanting to stay in her mouth to completion, but does she really have to swallow it? Can't she discretely remove the majority with a tissue or is that too much of a rejection? I'm generally good with the completion thing, but swallowing with out gagging takes and iron act of will. Husband is cool with the tissue, but still pushes me to swallow and sometimes gets his feelings hurt if I don't.




Sounds like you know the answer already. Yes, doing less is, well, less.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

Have her take a polygraph.


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

I'm guessing she doesn't swallow for him hence why its a deal breaker. 

If thats the case she will never admit to it even if she did swallow.

You have to work out whether or not you can live with it and presume that she did.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Betrayed2DMax said:


> I have lurked around here for sometime, 1yr out from W affair that lasted 2 months (EA/PA, I discovered). Married for 16 years with 3 kids.
> 
> She did some TT at the beginning weeks but swares I have all the details, its so embarrassing for me to ask this, but she did give him oral sex a couple times (in car) but she says she never swallowed and always pulled away when the AP was about to finish, t_hing is for me its a deal breaker if she swallowed_....
> 
> sorry for the dirty and sickening question and details, its so embarrasing to disclose this even if its on an anonymous internet forum, never in my life would I thought I would be talking about this devastating blow to my manhood. She swares she didnt, and has never wavered on that point (I have *not* told her this would be a deal breaker)....what can I do? how do I find out the truth?


She'll never tell you the truth on that one. Why on *earth* would she admit to it if she doesn't HAVE to? There's no video evidence to prove or disprove it, so in the end, all you have is her word.

And well...we all know how rock solid a cheater's *word* is, don't we?.

Cheaters *lie like rugs*. After they're caught, it's ALL about damage control and if they try to tell you isn't, they're just lying again. If they tell you they had sex 20 times, it was probably more like 100. If they tell you they wore a condom every time, count on the fact that maybe they used one once or maybe twice. And if they claim the sex was 'boring' or 'bad' (and most of them DO tell that lie to avoid being thrown out the front door by their betrayed spouse) don't believe it.

Her story stinks. Would she actually have you believe her '_principles_' wouldn't allow her to swallow when she was already at her lowest - in the car giving some guy oral sex? Good lord.

You don't HAVE to tell her swallowing is a deal breaker for you because she already *senses* that she has to sugarcoat everything. That's what cheaters DO. She's in damage control mode and her FIRST priority is - and always WILL be - to downplay everything about the affair.

You want the *real *story and not her sugarcoated, protect-her-ass-at-all-costs version of the "truth?"

Tell her she's taking a polygraph test. They're available all over the place and usually run between $300-1,000. Worth every penny.

Do it. You'll get the REAL truth, not hers.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

uhtred said:


> But would he really believe a polygraph? They are far from perfect, some will claim that they are useless. Is he willing to decide the rest of his life based on the results of one.


It's the intimidation factor of a polygraph that will get him closer to the truth than he'd be without one.

Your average person is petrified of being exposed for their lies by being hooked up to a machine and having a stranger announce they're lying. A lot of cheaters will give what's called a 'parking lot' confession - they''ll admit to their wrong doing in the car on the way to the poly testing facility or as they're walking into the building to have it done, because they know they're about to be exposed.

It's really more the intimidation of knowing they're going to be exposed that usually gets most of them to admit the truth.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

deleted, somebody already said the same thing.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

The intimidation increase the chance of a truthful answer, but how could someone ever get rid of that nagging doubt? 

For me, I wouldn't stay with a cheater unless I not only forgave them, but would be willing to forgive them again when they do it next time. (which I might be willing to do). 




She'sStillGotIt said:


> It's the intimidation factor of a polygraph that will get him closer to the truth than he'd be without one.
> 
> Your average person is petrified of being exposed for their lies by being hooked up to a machine and having a stranger announce they're lying. A lot of cheaters will give what's called a 'parking lot' confession - they''ll admit to their wrong doing in the car on the way to the poly testing facility or as they're walking into the building to have it done, because they know they're about to be exposed.
> 
> It's really more the intimidation of knowing they're going to be exposed that usually gets most of them to admit the truth.


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

Herschel said:


> I hear you, not every woman finishes. But most men wouldn't go through the effort of getting multiple BJs if they weren't to completion. Talk about a turn off during what is supposed to be an extremely titillating situation. It's possible, but I'd put 5:1 odds on it.


I've found that many women are willing to do the b but not s. There are many ways to get comfortable with this. As long as she makes sure contact remains...e.g. as you pull out, she uses both hands to make sure you don't get that shocking cold air experience, all is good. If it's agreed ahead of time that this is how you'll do it, then it's not a shock or turn-off in any way.

I've had otherwise great LTRs with women who would get their faces anywhere near that area, so a b without an s, IMO, is perfectly fine.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

How do you know she has stopped all contact with the OM?

How do you know this is not her fourth A during your marriage?

You do not know. She does. 

Have her prove it to you! You can't trust a word she says, and I do agree with the polygraph. 

Make her pay for the polygraph. How would she feel if you had an A?

How do you know she has stopped cheating on you?

What has she done to out the POSOM to the world? or is she still protecting him and cheating with him?

have her prove to you that she is not cheating still.
she can pay for monitoring, you should not have to be her babysitter.

how old are your kids? How long do you want to wait before D?

the A would be enough for me to file. You have evidence.

Someone else has a chance to be better for you than your cheating wife.


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## Married&Confused (Jan 19, 2011)

GusPolinski said:


> But hey -- as long as he's there...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


i read that in john candy's voice


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## drifter777 (Nov 25, 2013)

Betrayed2DMax said:


> thanks to all for the feedback. I receive frequent and very intense training to deal with conflicting and difficult situations (and have actually faced many in non-training situations, some unfortunately including loss of life) using facts with very little time, this in itself might be the reason
> I am unable to make a decision without some sort of tangible evidence.
> 
> A divorce, while obviously possible, would introduce several challenges for me, family and even my career, as such a situation would mandate a leave of absence for security and safety reasons, which you can understand.
> ...


The swallowing thing is likely your "line in the sand" because it would be the final blow to your self-esteem and destroy the remaining respect you have for her. Some here may think it's arbitrary - and it is - but it is something that you view as very special or sacred that you shared exclusively. I totally get it. 

It's also an escape hatch for you. That is, it is a place you can go in your mind where you finally just pack up and leave over the horrible betrayal she perpetrated. I get that one too. Most BH's who try to reconcile - successful or not - have a "if it ever happens again, I'm gone" escape hatch for themselves. It's like the devastation is simply too much for complete acceptance so your mind has to have a dotted line to freedom. Whatever the reason, your dealbreaker is understandable - we all believe we have one. 

As for the swallowing, if she does it all the time for you then why do you think she would change this behavior? We're not talking about condoms or pulling out to avoid pregnancy - swallowing is something she would do as naturally as breathing. Once she was caught she went into pure survival mode and told you only what she had to in order to satisfy your need to know. She told you not one thing more. She held back any detail that could possibly make things worse and she will continue to do so until the day she dies. If you asked her about it - which you obviously did - it would put her on alert that it mattered to you and that means the truth on it is a risk. She ain't taking any unnecessary risks. Only if you can convince her of the importance of full disclosure will she reveal these kinds of details.

Not revealing her betrayal to anyone is a heavy burden to carry. I was the same way and know where of I speak. Everything that you don't know about her cheating will torture you and your imagination will fill in those blanks worst possible stuff. The damage you can and will do to yourself by ruminating over it without the opportunity to bounce things off of someone who is on your side is incredible. Please at least find a counselor to share this with and help you sort out all of your emotions.


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## drifter777 (Nov 25, 2013)

Sports Fan said:


> I'm guessing she doesn't swallow for him hence why its a deal breaker.
> 
> If thats the case she will never admit to it even if she did swallow.
> 
> You have to work out whether or not you can live with it and presume that she did.


He already revealed she DOES swallow for him. For me that makes it nearly a cinch that she swallowed for him as well. She does it to please her man and the other guy was her man.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Since sperm is made up of millions of individuals, it's safe to say each essing session she probably swallowed on average about a hundred individuals.

But since her party trick is swallowing for her husband, no doubt she swallowed to impress the OM.

Oh and she knows swallowing is a deal breaker, she knows the husband and probably the multitude of questions covering the sessions all pointed to revealing what happened at the end probably tipped her off.. pardon the pun.


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## Betrayed2DMax (Aug 4, 2016)

back again, lot to read and take in....I have brought the polygraph intention before and she has seemed ok with it and willing to do it, I just never followed thru with it. I will probably bring this up again and as you all suggested follow thru with it....
the swalling thing, it goes back when we first met I will admit that, she said back then I was the one and only she had ever done that to, so I guess it was something special between us as we both had multiple sexual partners before we dated and PIV was something as a result of that, it wasnt anything new to us. It does bother me that something like that does indeed bother me, and as some have said, I should get to the root cause of it, there were not any STDs involved thankfully.

The affair itself, pretty boring by all standards, I was always working, travelling, we didnt spend too much time together, kids got older, she went to a gym to get herself in shape, found a guy to help her and well you know the rest....kids are 11, 9 and 7

If I divorce her I do not know where she will end up, she has very little family around and neither do I.....I honestly think it will be very bad for the kids, she cant make it on her own and I have difficulty leaving that up in the air when it involves the kids.

You give me the busiest airport with a very congested approach sector and bad weather, even throw in an emer, and I will get everyone home on the ground safely, I can do that....this emotional affair stuff, am lost.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

The kids will be fine - really. Mine were EXACTLY those same ages when I remarried.

As for her - who the hell CARES what happens to her?

And I hate to tell you, but I doubt you were the first she swallowed for.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

I think I have it figured out. Our man D2 believe that if she swallowed it means shes disloyal, untrustworthy, and utterly disrespectful of him and the marriage. 
What the hell, I just remembered if she's sucking another man dyck it means that whether she swallowed or not.


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## LucasJackson (May 26, 2016)

If she has known beforehand that swallowing is a deal breaker for you then she's lying. A BJ in a car, without swallowing, is quite a messy situation. With swallowing, neat and tidy. 99% chance she swallowed and is just doing damage control telling you she didn't.


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## Betrayed2DMax (Aug 4, 2016)

Hope1964 said:


> The kids will be fine - really. Mine were EXACTLY those same ages when I remarried.
> 
> As for her - who the hell CARES what happens to her?
> 
> And I hate to tell you, but I doubt you were the first she swallowed for.


I must sir, I simply cannot abandon the mother of my children whom they are very deeply attached to, to the least unless she attaches to another partner.

I doubt she had swallowed prior to me, maybe she did, I dont care much what happened before me, but I surely didnt ask for it, she did it willingly and volunteered all the information, I did not ask, this is now almost 20 years ago, I barely remember.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Betrayed2DMax said:


> I must sir, I simply cannot abandon the mother of my children whom they are very deeply attached to, to the least unless she attaches to another partner.


(I'm not a dude, dude  )

If you're not willing to abandon her and throw her out, then she's got you by the short ones forevermore.

First rule when you're cheated on - STOP CARING about the cheater. ESPECIALLY if you're a guy. If you can't do that, you're in for years of heartache, being used and lied to, accepting being plan B, taking back an unremorseful cake eater, and all kinds of other WONDERFUL stuff.

Please read this thread.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...e-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html#post430739


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Also read up on the 180.

The Pretzel Logic of the 180 - ChumpLady.com


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

The fact that she swallows for her H is not indicative that she swallowed for OM. 

My high school boyfriend – first BJ I ever gave – I swallowed once. And had to chug a quart of orange juice afterwards. Never again with him.

First husband, we were together MANY years before I ever did. Frankly……his was awful and made me gag many, many times. After I did a few times, I stopped – thought I would do it every once in a while just to make him happy.

Husband – again – we were together for a while before I did. Actually at first, he didn’t want me to. I don’t think he’d ever received a BJ to completion before me. So early on, he would sort of push my head back right before. Which was fine, I wasn’t ready to swallow at that point. I consider that a very personal thing to do and while I adored him right off the bat…..I wasn’t quite ready for that. Later on in the relationship it just became a verbal warning, and for a while I would still not swallow. Again, it’s a personal thing. I’d say we were together a good 8-9 months before I started doing that. Now I’ve done it for close to 10 years, but I also still choose to spit sometimes or finish with my hand. 

I’m not trying to defend the WS here, but so many of you are speaking in complete absolutes that if she does it for the husband she HAS to do it for the OM. That’s simply dangerous to put into someone else’s head. While it could be true, it could just as easily NOT be true. Not every woman, even the scummy cheater ones, are raring to swallow right off the bat.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

LucasJackson said:


> If she has known beforehand that swallowing is a deal breaker for you then she's lying. A BJ in a car, without swallowing, is quite a messy situation. With swallowing, neat and tidy. 99% chance she swallowed and is just doing damage control telling you she didn't.


If her hair looked like this, then most likely she didn't swallow :wink2:


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

LosingHim said:


> The fact that she swallows for her H is not indicative that she swallowed for OM.
> 
> My high school boyfriend – first BJ I ever gave – I swallowed once. And had to chug a quart of orange juice afterwards. Never again with him.
> 
> ...


Tell hubby to drink pineapple juice. Makes it taste better they say.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

> I’m not trying to defend the WS here, but so many of you are speaking in complete absolutes that if she does it for the husband she HAS to do it for the OM. That’s simply dangerous to put into someone else’s head. While it could be true, it could just as easily NOT be true. Not every woman, even the scummy cheater ones, are raring to swallow right off the bat.


Well, when you've already pretty much gone about as low as you can go - cheating on your husband by giving some mouth-breather a BJ in the *car *like some randy 17 year old teenager, it just ISN'T that much of a stretch to assume the worst at that point.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Betrayed2DMax said:


> I must sir, I simply cannot abandon the mother of my children whom they are very deeply attached to, to the least unless she attaches to another partner.
> 
> I doubt she had swallowed prior to me, maybe she did, I dont care much what happened before me, but I surely didnt ask for it, she did it willingly and volunteered all the information, I did not ask, this is now almost 20 years ago, I barely remember.


Well there's your answer. She's willing so.....


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

Betrayed2DMax said:


> You give me the busiest airport with a very congested approach sector and bad weather, even throw in an emer, and I will get everyone home on the ground safely, I can do that....this emotional affair stuff, am lost.




That's partly what bothers me about your situation.

I don't like the idea of being at 30,000 ft. and the air traffic controller monitoring my flight is blanked out at his radar screen; mentally ruminating about the fact that his wife might have swallowed for another guy.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

B2DM,

Have you exposed the OM, was he a "trainer" at the gym?

Do you still live within 50 miles of the OM?

Does your WW still go to the gym?

Has your WW changed her behaviors, for example if she still goes to the gym does she still talk with random men?

Has she given you her passwords to facebook and etc?

Your WW being in an affair is embarrasing, you asking for the truth is not.

Tamat


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

bandit.45 said:


> Tell hubby to drink pineapple juice. Makes it taste better they say.


I heard they call that a peñis colada.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

bandit.45 said:


> Tell hubby to drink pineapple juice. Makes it taste better they say.


Hubby's is fine. Ex husbands was foul. Like dry heave foul. 

But even so, I still don't ALWAYS swallow. He never says anything if I do, but if I spit he laughs because he knows it was a particularly bad batch. 

My BFF swallows because she loves it. She's often said she'd like a spoog flavored ice cream. She's a little off in the head. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

LosingHim said:


> The fact that she swallows for her H is not indicative that she swallowed for OM.
> 
> My high school boyfriend – first BJ I ever gave – I swallowed once. And had to chug a quart of orange juice afterwards. Never again with him.


So, what you are saying is...you had to swallow once to realize you didn't want to swallow again...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

Herschel said:


> So, what you are saying is...you had to swallow once to realize you didn't want to swallow again...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


At the age of 17, yes. I was with my boyfriend for a year at the time, people were talking about it, I tried it and almost vomited.

But later in life I decided that swallowing was not something I would do with a casual sex partner, nor someone I wasn't sure what my future was like with. I was with my ex husband for quite some time before I did. I was also with my current husband for quite some time before I did. I also have other men in my sexual history who I'd not swallowed with -- ever. 

By the same token, my husband had several sexual partners before me, but only performed oral sex on one - 3 times TOTAL. 

My point is, women don't always do everything the same with every man they are with. It is not safe to assume that what a woman does with one, she will do with all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kingsman (Aug 6, 2016)

A woman may not do the same with all men but her husband should get everything all the other guys got, especially if it was a case of her doing it with an affair partner.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

kingsman said:


> A woman may not do the same with all men but her husband should get everything all the other guys got, especially if it was a case of her doing it with an affair partner.


To our knowledge she is. She swallows with OP. She has told OP that she did NOT with AP. There are a lot of people saying if she does it with OP, she most certainly did it with AP. 

I'm simply trying to point out that it's not always one size fits all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kingsman (Aug 6, 2016)

Ok yes I agree with you.

Lots of assumptions being made and it's not doing the Op any good to hear that she probably did all these things with her affair partner even though she says she did not. It's like rubbing the salt in his wounds for no good reason. 

I'd prefer to think positive. She said she didn't whats wrong with giving her the benefit of the doubt especially if it's something we would like to believe is true.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

LosingHim said:


> For many years with my husband he would let me know when he was going to finish and I could either make the choice to keep it in my mouth or pull it out and finish it with my hand.


 My ex-gf could tell exactly when I was close and when I was about to release (and would always stop). No matter how much I tried to hide it.... 

Perhaps there is some exciting taboo about doing the things she doesn't do with official party that lets the car-sex become more of a fantasy. But as earlier poster says, either have to take her at her word (and suffer the risk of being lied to), or realise it will bother him and that if he can't get over it look at breaking up because he can't handle the doubt (even though he can sort of handle the affair).

A couple of swingers I know have a "no blowjob" rule as that's what they do "special" just for each other (it's just their particular pattern). and sometimes it's done like that "because this is the mouth I kiss my kids with"


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## kingsman (Aug 6, 2016)

She'd stop before you released? Completely?

That's just downright mean and selfish.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

The two biggest lies ever told:

1. I will not raise your taxes.

2. I will not cum in your mouth.>


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## italianjob (May 7, 2014)

You can never know for sure, either you decide to believe her or you try to make a logical guess.

But it's still going to be a guess, not proof.

...

This is (swallowing) a sexual practice that men love, but women have several different attitudes about it:
some girls will refuse to even try, finding the act simply disgusting. some girls tried once or twice but didn't like it, so they won't try again. some girls will possibly avoid because they don't like it but will perform it if requested, when they deem it necessary to keep the guy interested or happy. some girls don't mind it and will do it to please or impress. some girls just love it and will do it every time or almost every time.

Now, your wife performed it without you asking when you started to have sex, so she's probably part of one of the last two categories.

Were you the first one? Only you know the circumstances and how she behaved, but it's unlikely for a girl to try and swallow for the first time without being asked, sounds like she had experiences before; you might try to recall her reaction, but first timers rarely act like they drunk a glass of milk...

The fact is that performing this unrequested will start in most men two opposite reactions: they are impressed (as in "wow, she knows her sex!") but they are also suspicious of the girls' morality (as in "hey! isn't this kind of slvttish?"). In other words girls showcase abilities young men want in a girl they sleep with, but may not want in the partner for a LTR, unless they are the ones teaching them. That may explain why she told you you were the first one she performed this for.

So we know your wife at least doesn't mind it, and does this to impress a new lover.

You add that your wife was deeply afraid of a pregnancy because that would out her on the spot, so PIV was strictly with condom...

Having to place restrictions on PIV she had to find different ways to keep the sex interesting for AP, and since she doesn't mind swallowing....

I think it's very likely she did...

...

Of course all this things might change in different circumstances, but you didn't write much details.

If her lover was much younger, for example, she might not have needed to make the sex more interesting.

If she confessed her A maybe his lover got tired of protected PIV and half done BJs and dumped her,
and so on...


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## Emmi (Dec 11, 2015)

Did she tricke truth a lot?

How long did it take before she told you everything (as far as you know)?

How long has it been since you got the last bit of information?

Was she in love with OM? Or did she picture a future with him?

If she didn't have feelings for him and always wanted to keep her marriage to you I don't find it unlikely that she kept that one act sacred, if she still loved you through it all then she might be telling the truth. I think trickle truth tend to be quite even, but I don't have a lot of experience with that, husband told me everything in one day, and since then nothing new has come out, and that's about a year ago now. So I do believe him, but this thread really triggered me and has me wondering all over again...


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

kingsman said:


> She'd stop before you released? Completely?
> 
> That's just downright mean and selfish.


everytime. got to be quite a challenge for both of us in the end, before work got too busy/stressful to have social time.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

italianjob said:


> \some girls tried once or twice but didn't like it, so they won't try again.


lots more pineapple in the diet, reduce meat and cut out diary.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

I'm very skeptical of any claim from a cheater. And I'm very skeptical of any claims of "this was the first/only time" about anything whether related to a person's sexual history or their cheating activities. Furthermore, many men have had a vasectomy (or claim to have had one), making a condom unnecessary.

For all those reasons I would assume any woman in an affair did anything and everything. She, with very rare exception, will lie, minimize, gas light, and obscure the truth. We all know "just friends" means a fvck buddy, a kiss means a bj, etc in cheaterspeak.

The woman will typically do more for her affair partner(s) than she does for her husband. That's part of the fantasy for her, and part of what the posom pushes for.

There are only 2 options. First, one can simply assume the cheater did every possible sex act with posom. Second, one can set up a polygraph. If you go with the polygraph, do it intelligently. Have her write out in detail the timeline of the affair including sex acts. Have her list all the sex acts they did. There's a good list somewhere on this site of things to have her write down in her list. Places, dates, times, who was there, how they got there, alcohol/drugs, condoms used, where he finished on/in her, etc etc etc. Then in the polygraph one of the questions is if this is the complete and correct story. Another question should be if there have been any other affairs or infidelities of any kind since they first started dating.

OP, if you're still here, one thing you're hearing from everybody here is that you'll never know for sure without the polygraph. Most of us haven't required the polygraph, so what you're being told is that people many years out from d-day still don't know all the details or truth of their cheating spouse's activities.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

kingsman said:


> Lots of assumptions being made and it's not doing the Op any good to hear that she probably did all these things with her affair partner even though she says she did not. It's like rubbing the salt in his wounds for no good reason.
> 
> I'd prefer to think positive. She said she didn't whats wrong with giving her the benefit of the doubt especially if it's something we would like to believe is true.


May be, but D2 may as well come to terms with those assumptions now and desensitize himself to the possibilities of what she could have done with the other man. If he doesn't do it now, he'll be on a slow burn for months and years to come thinking about, "did I get the whole story".
According to our man D2, he has no real problem with anything she did short of swallowing the guys semen. In that regard, I've known many married women in a past life and I've yet to find one that, while having sex would stop the AP short of the goal, whatever that is, because her husband wouldn't like it if she did. _Like, "gee Bobby, all I'm going to do with you is missionary and maybe a little doggy. It would be disrespectful to my hubby and my marriage to do reverse cowgirl with you" _
The girl was honkering down on the OM's johnson multiple times in a parked car in order to satisfy him and give him something to remember before sending him home to wifey. It ain't much of a stretch to believe she gave him the full monty.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

Betrayed2DMax said:


> _thing is for me its a deal breaker if she swallowed_....
> 
> ....what can I do? how do I find out the truth?
> 
> *Our R is going good with her doing the heavy lifting so thats not as much a issue as its the disgusting sexual details.*


If you are the sort that MUST know, then I think the polygraph is the only way for you to both move forward.

For those who are recommending you leave her, I bring attention back to your first post that you are trying to R.

I agree with you, and disagree with posters who say your kids will be fine in the short term if you divorce. Your wife is currently dependent on you. You have a busy job that doesn't easily allow you to cover the majority of child minding duties if you share custody. Their quality of life will almost certainly decrease in the short term given your current situation. I think a little advance planning can improve everyone's situation should your R not be successful.

Insist as part of your R that your wife start prepping for a career of some kind. With kids in school, she can go back to school also and get a job. Nursing, office admin, bookkeeper/accountant etc. Those jobs are always in demand. This way, if you don't make it longterm, you can be confident she will be okay. Hope for the best but plan for the worst, as the saying goes.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

You can never know for sure, about her, about anyone you will ever be with if you leave her. 

Its the same as never knowing if some tiny bunch of cells somewhere in your body is starting to grow out of control and in a year will cause you an agonizing death. 

Uncertainty is just a part of life.


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## kingsman (Aug 6, 2016)

VladDracul said:


> It ain't much of a stretch to believe she gave him the full monty.


Yet, it's a stretch. You're filling in the blanks with very bad news for no good reason. I mean, what's the point? Why not take it in the other direction and say it's not a stretch to say she has her limits and she won't exceed them with OM or anyone else.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

sapientia said:


> If you are the sort that MUST know, then I think the polygraph is the only way for you to both move forward.


Yep. Do a poly and make sure beforehand you'll accept the results. If she passes, believe her. If she fails, do what you think you need to do. If you're going to hang around for the kids or for whatever reason, forget the poly and just get on with the R. It ain't gonna make no difference noway.


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## kingsman (Aug 6, 2016)

Why should he believe her if she passes a polygraph? Lots of people pass a polygraph when they're lying. 

That's not opinion it's a fact.

The test is an indicator not absolute certainty.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> Originally Posted* by Betrayed2DMax*
> If I divorce her I do not know where she will end up, she has very little family around and neither do I.....*I honestly think it will be very bad for the kids*, she cant make it on her own and I have difficulty leaving that up in the air when it involves the kids.


*A successful R will probably be better for the children than a mean divorce.* My guess is that you really do not want a divorce because if you did you would have already been in the process. That being the case, then you need to drop your obsession with the swallowing and do what is best for you and the children and see if you can successfully R. Stop trying to get all the gory details, you cannot handle it.

Swallowing is disgusting to you but so is giving the OM a BJ in a car and having the OM deposit his DNA in your wife’s V. Sorry to give you such graphic truths but I did it so that you can realize that your disgust over swallowing should not be the main issue. *The main issue is that your wife betrayed you and your children for her own selfish desires. She would hurt her children for her ego*; that I would think would be more of an issue than swallowing. I also feel swallowing is disgusting and do not let my wife swallow but betrayal is worse than disgust.

Here is my bottom line for you to consider.

1	Force yourself to stop all the thoughts about swallowing and all other gory details. You can’t handle the truth! No I am not Jack Nicholson ( Col. Nathan R. Jessup).

2	*Concentrate on and take actions what is best for you and your children*

3	Have your attorney prepare a post-nup and have your wife sign it.

4	Get help from any and all sources so that you can start healing

5	*Realize that you can get a LOT better in the future and that this betrayal will not destroy your life.*

6	As I have stated a successful R is better than a mean D. If you and your children are not better off with R then get a D.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Let's just say that if it's my old lady who has it come out that she's had another man's wang in her mouth or in some other bodily orifice, whether he came or not is substantially immaterial!

After that occurs, I'm going nowhere near her, for any reason except to get her signature for the divorce petition!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kingsman (Aug 6, 2016)

It's easy to say that until it happens to you.

Then you suddenly realize that no matter what you decide to do your life is never going to be the same, it's a question of which direction causes you the least amount of pain.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

kingsman said:


> Why should he believe her if she passes a polygraph? Lots of people pass a polygraph when they're lying.
> 
> That's not opinion it's a fact.
> 
> The test is an indicator not absolute certainty.


Probably misspoke to say "believe her". Should have said accept it as the truth and move on. If he's not going to accept the results, why do it to begin with? He's out of options for knowing the with absolute certainty. 
My take is the D2 ain't going anywhere no matter what he discovers. In his post he's already setting it up, "_If I divorce her I do not know where she will end up, she has very little family around and neither do I.....I honestly think it will be very bad for the kids, she cant make it on her own and I have difficulty leaving that up in the air when it involves the kids" _ to not divorce her.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

VladDracul said:


> I heard they call that a peñis colada.


Heh heh heh heh heh....

You said colada......

Heh heh heh heh heh heh.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

VladDracul said:


> May be, but D2 may as well come to terms with those assumptions now and desensitize himself to the possibilities of what she could have done with the other man. If he doesn't do it now, he'll be on a slow burn for months and years to come thinking about, "did I get the whole story"..


I'll just add that there's always the possibility he finds out more at a much later date. For whatever reason and in whatever circumstances, additional information could come his way. And he could find out she swallowed.

This is why I think one should assume the cheater did anything and everything with the affair partner. If there is something that is an absolute deal breaker in terms of a sex act, assume she did it. Especially if it is something she does with her husband and/or has a history of doing with other men before, as she has no inherent opposition to doing that act.

If you're going to forgive the cheater for cheating, forgive them for the things you don't know about, too.

There's no way to move forward with a new start when there's always that link back to "if she did do X then I will divorce her".


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

You got that right Thor. The most spoken phrase by cheating wives is, "I've never even let my husband do what I'm letting you do."  I bet ole D2 wishes he'd never mentioned his problem to us.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

arbitrator said:


> *Let's just say that if it's my old lady who has it come out that she's had another man's wang in her mouth or in some other bodily orifice, whether he came or not is substantially immaterial!
> 
> After that occurs, I'm going nowhere near her, for any reason except to get her signature for the divorce petition!*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


WTF, Arb? This isn't helpful. He's a year into R. What YOU would do isn't material here. He's never asked about divorce. Why stir the pot? Every couple and situation is different. He must have reasons to R with his wife that are different from yours, which is why you didn't.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

kingsman said:


> Why should he believe her if she passes a polygraph? Lots of people pass a polygraph when they're lying.
> 
> That's not opinion it's a fact.
> 
> The test is an indicator not absolute certainty.


Nothing is ever absolute but death and taxes.

He's looking for some independent reassurance, that's all. Hopefully it will be enough.


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## kingsman (Aug 6, 2016)

Mr Blunt said:


> *A successful R will probably be better for the children than a mean divorce.*




Well, of course it would be. 

The tricky part is to make it happen.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

sapientia said:


> WTF, Arb? This isn't helpful. He's a year into R. What YOU would do isn't material here. He's never asked about divorce. Why stir the pot? Every couple and situation is different. He must have reasons to R with his wife that are different from yours, which is why you didn't.


*Perhaps! And he has a right to do that!

But truth be told, he's certainly got to be in the extremely small number of self-respecting, family men!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## niceguy28 (May 6, 2016)

OP I actually understand what you are saying. If she let another man do that that is a serious sign of disrespect. Giving another guy oral sex is bad enough but I can see how you would really have a problem with it. Every time you kiss your wife you don't want that going through your head. I'll say this though, I'm guessing you're not her first so she's probably done that with some other guy before you so other than the cheating part what's the difference this time. Why you asked for all of the details I don't know. Nothing good came from that. Whatever temporary curiosity that got addressed pales in comparison to the aftermath of knowing the awful sexual details of an affair.


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## bigfoot (Jan 22, 2014)

I'm confused. If she sucked AP to the point that he came, then she got some in her mouth. That seems to not be a deal breaker. She probably got pre-cum in her mouth and swallowed that as he was about to orgasm. That seems not to be a deal breaker. She kept working AP until her had an Orgasm and that is not a deal breaker. She may have taken it all in her mouth and spit it out, and that is not a deal breaker.

OP, I think that you need to really have a reality check with yourself. NOTHING is going to be a deal breaker so stop. Get on path to working this out. I hate to see BS's talk about how they will drop the hammer of Thor, "if they cheat again" or "if X happened" or "unless they start putting in the so called work". When you do that, you really paint yourself into a corner and then when you don't follow through you will die a little bit more inside.

I am not calling you weak. I am not telling you to dump her. I am telling you to be honest with yourself about yourself. Once you start that, who knows what will happen. This whole "if she swallowed" thing is just a fallacy that you have constructed for a variety of reasons.

If she swallowed what? How much? Come on. She was not sucking and spitting the whole time. She swallowed something, like I mentioned in my opening paragraph. Be real with yourself. Be honest with yourself. Then get busy doing whatever you need to do.


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## niceguy28 (May 6, 2016)

Another thing OP. You already made the choice to R so you have to accept reality. From bits and pieces of what I've read you set the stage for your wife to do what she did. Your wife is dead wrong
and deserved to get left and you are not responsible for what she did. That doesn't mean you didn't contribute to it though. If I go into a bad neighborhood and leave three hundred dollar bills on my dashboard
and then leave my door wide open, yes the person who stole my money is the thief but I did contribute to it through my actions. I'd focus more on fixing the issues you have than obsessing over this. Your kids would appreciate that a lot more.


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## stillthinking (Jun 1, 2016)

When she does the poly, if she fails, she swallowed, more than once, that means you are out right?

But if she passes....no swallowing....what will you do?

Will you say "ok, let's move on with more R"?

Or was the whole thing really a dealbreaker and you? Maybe you are looking for a reason to cut loose?


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

Hope1964 said:


> So you're OK with her having another guys junk in her mouth, but not with her swallowing it when he came??? You do know what precum is, right?
> 
> Priority adjustment required please help!



.

Other posters addressed this, so I removed my post


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

VladDracul said:


> I don't understand how oral carries much less weight than PIV sex. I'm somewhat perplexed with the comments such as, "well at least she only gave him a BJ". I guess now its extremely bad news to hear that the wife allowed him to insert his pecker in her vj but not such a big deal if he only uses it to irrigate her tonsils. I guess times have changed.



True. Times have chaged.

I am older than many on this forum, and for whatever reason, younger generations seem to regard oral sex as less intimate, whereas for previous generations, it was generally MORE intimate. Perhaps because in prior generations, oral sex was regarded as more risqué, and a greater number of women refused to do it in years past---so a woman who would do this was regarded as more sexually adventurous, or devoted to her partner, etc.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Ya Wolf, when she got involved with this other cat, she already proved untrustworthy and disloyal as well as showed a loss of romantic interest and respect for her husband. Beyond that its like in contract law, you have intent, offer, and acceptance. The sex act is the consideration. And like most courts, many husbands don't consider the amount and type of "consideration" she provided the other party to feel their wives have breached her contract with him. D2 has indicated he provides her more latitude.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

D2 is giving his wife way more consideration than I would give my wife if mine had done what his wife has.

The thought of kissing my wife after she has just finished giving another man oral sex makes my stomach churn. I would not care if she had washed her mouth out with sulfuric acid before coming home. As does the thought of giving her oral after she had just banged the other guy, protection or not.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

True TDS. In my view its worse than piv where she's get some physical pleasure out of it. Oral is done as a one sided effort to please him meaning her heart nad the importance of the act was into satisfying him. The only thing she got out of it is mentally knowing she both put and sent him home with a smile on his face.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

kingsman said:


> Why should he believe her if she passes a polygraph? Lots of people pass a polygraph when they're lying.
> 
> That's not opinion it's a fact.
> 
> The test is an indicator not absolute certainty.


Yes it is a fact but OP's wife most likely does not know if she will be able to fake it or not. 

OP should make the arrangements. The night before the test he should have her write out the timeline with all details. He then tells her if she fails they divorce.

Waiting until the night before to give that ultimatum is done to leave her little time to research on how to beat the test. 

More likely, those who "beat" the test have either been trained on how to do it or are sociopaths with little emotions.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

bandit.45 said:


> heh heh heh heh heh....
> 
> You said colada......
> 
> ...


shut up bevis!


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

Oh no sex in car yuk, trigger!!!


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## Betrayed2DMax (Aug 4, 2016)

still here, time has been limited last couple days, a lot of reading from all the posts.
Let me clarify a few things (difficult for me as it is, as am sort of a private person). I do not care if my wife swallows or not, as a matter of fact, she spits it out most of the time, is finishing in her mouth thats the crucial point for me. 
Yes I understand about the logistic aspects of pre-cum and such, however the act of letting a man finish in your mouth can only be intentional (unless force was used), my specific problem deals with this point and not whether its swallowed or not.

Sure I think its something I can learn to look past and not think about, I do not think about it constantly....but so long as I feel its an unresolved matter for me it will bother me, more so if I am deciding to stay with her. If I decide to divorce then well I guess its a moot point then, whether I know the truth or not. But if I decide to continue R with her I have to have some level of belief that it didnt happen, even thou if such belief is based on un-qualitative information. 

She has repeatedly told me she never even thought of letting him finish in her mouth because she doesnt do that with people she doesnt know well for some time, or has been intimate with in other ways and times. She tells me she always stopped way short and let him finish himself, as the AP also had told her he rarely if ever orgasms from oral sex. Also there was no issues with fluids because a towel was always at hand.
She also asserts me that she never kissed me on the same day and even then she always brushed a lot when she got home prior to anything else.

_notmyrealname4	08-05-2016 11:07 PM
That's partly what bothers me about your situation.
I don't like the idea of being at 30,000 ft. and the air traffic controller monitoring my flight is blanked out at his radar screen; mentally ruminating about the fact that his wife might have swallowed for another guy._

I can reassure you as much as possible that this has never been an issue, as I said we receive intense and frequent training to ensure emotional states do not interfere with our duty, and if its inevitable then we are self aware enough to remove ourselves from duty immediately, we take this very seriously and equally proudly. Safety is our number one priority, always, ever.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

blueinbr said:


> Yes it is a fact but OP's wife most likely does not know if she will be able to fake it or not.
> 
> OP should make the arrangements. The night before the test he should have her write out the timeline with all details. He then tells her if she fails they divorce.
> 
> ...


Or those that know they are psudo-science hokum and lie with confidence.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

Betrayed2DMax said:


> still here, time has been limited last couple days, a lot of reading from all the posts.
> Let me clarify a few things (difficult for me as it is, as am sort of a private person). I do not care if my wife swallows or not, as a matter of fact, she spits it out most of the time, is finishing in her mouth thats the crucial point for me.
> Yes I understand about the logistic aspects of pre-cum and such, however the act of letting a man finish in your mouth can only be intentional (unless force was used), my specific problem deals with this point and not whether its swallowed or not.
> 
> ...


And you believe her because she has always been trustworthy.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Malaise said:


> And you believe her because she has always been trustworthy.


Exactly.

You want the truth OP? Just ask for the polygraph already.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

She didn't kiss you on the days she did that? Just curious - do you not kiss your wife every day? My husband and I kiss several times a day.

The part about not letting him finish in her mouth for the reasons listed COULD be true. I'm the same way.

HOWEVER friend, the point here is - she did it. She gave another man a Bj or several. The logistics of it at this point are just going to drive you crazy. 

My husband had a 10 year EA, that I have strong suspicions went physical. I have VERY little details, and certainly NO physical details because he swears there aren't any. However, I believe otherwise. At any rate.....at some point I just had to accept that I will never know it all. His was more emotional and I doubt he will ever tell me the things he said to her and vice versa.

So you have 2 choices:

Accept it for what it is and move forward

Divorce


You will NEVER get all the details to your satisfaction. That is a fact. Even if she tells/has told you everything - you will always feel like there's something you don't know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

All of her acts and whatever she did is not divorce-able. Heck, you said you will not leave her? So, you can keep saying in her mouth and swallowing is your line, but your words continually say something different. 
Okay, so what do you really need? IMO, you want some type of closure you aren't going to get.


You are not going to get any type of closure to the degree you, as the betrayed, want to your complete satisfaction. A guy who tried reconciliation three times, JUST recently found out the wife's friend, the one he says he trusted, lied to him about his ex-wife's whereabouts on a specific occasion. Go read some of the wayward threads, one is unfortunately deleted, to watch the rationalization, minimization and LIES they tell to protect their own ego and self esteem. You will NEVER get the full answers you want to your satisfaction EVER. You'll learn to accept and learn to let it go, but this is where it will stop.You'll have to build a new marriage while you are reconciling. I've seen enough regret filled and trigger threads to know it is the unknown, no matter the length, which affects people. Yep, we have people 25 years in, I read too much, who still talk about the triggers and doubt all of these years later.

If you are going to stay, go get a counselor and learn how to let this stuff go.


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## TAM2013 (Jul 15, 2013)

OP,

Forget the polygraph. Forget trying for the truth. YOU WILL NOT GET IT and it doesn't matter now anyway. You deserve better. Get rid of her and move on or you will forever feel like sh1t. It's hard but just do it.

She fvcked up and doesn't deserve another chance.

DO IT.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

If a married woman of 16 years with 3 children has the audacity to place another mans penis in her mouth while in a vehicle no less, for the express purpose of giving him pleasure, you can most assuredly assume that he finished in her mouth.

If it looks like ****, smells like **** and tastes like ****, you can pretty much bet the farm that it IS ****.

Sorry.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Betrayed2DMax said:


> She has repeatedly told me she never even thought of letting him finish in her mouth *because she doesnt do that with people she doesnt know well for some time, or has been intimate with in other ways and times.*


"She doesn't do that" - as in the present tense. This sounds like she is routinely involved with other men. Do you have an open marriage?


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

UMP said:


> If a married woman of 16 years with 3 children has the audacity to place another mans penis in her mouth while in a vehicle no less, for the express purpose of giving him pleasure, you can most assuredly assume that he finished in her mouth.
> 
> If it looks like ****, smells like **** and tastes like ****, you can pretty much bet the farm that it IS ****.
> 
> Sorry.


Exactly what I was thinking! 


Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Betrayed2DMax said:


> but she did give him oral sex a couple times (in car) but she says she never swallowed and always pulled away when the AP was about to finish, t_hing is for me its a deal breaker if she swallowed_.....


They should start a new sport at the Olympics called "mental gymnastics". You'd easily win the gold metal. His junk was in your wife's mouth. The same mouth you kiss. Think about that next time you want to give her a big smooch. :x

P.S. She swallowed, don't be a fool...


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

She swallowed. She didn't swallow. NO ONE HERE KNOWS!

That's the point. Either you DECIDE she swallowed and figure out if it REALLY is a deal breaker, and if you reconcile assume she did... or you will always wonder.

Personally I'm with those here who don't actually believe this is the true issue.

You're looking for a particular thing to know with certainty so you can divorce guilt free. That's dishonest and you won't get it. Either decide she doesn't deserve R or that she does. Totally your call. No shame in tapping out - lots here are pushing that. No shame in gutting it out - that's a good choice for many. But make your own choice honestly, assuming the worst, and you will be in a better position to move forward one way or another.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

TheTruthHurts said:


> You're looking for a particular thing to know with certainty so you can divorce guilt free. That's dishonest and you won't get it.


I think it's the opposite. I think he's looking for a line to draw so he can feel OK about staying. "I know she sucked him off but at least she didn't swallow! Now I can go to sleep at night."

Reminds me of those girls on the Maury show. The guy runs around and screws 5 other chicks. He isn't even sorry about it. Then one of them claims her baby is his. "If it's really his, I'm out of here." Yeah right.................


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

At least it was a kiss not a bj....

At least she didn't swallow his load....

At least it was oral and no penetration....

At least it was one person not a gang bang....


The line in the sand seems to always be one foot in front of her regardless of where she stands.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

VladDracul said:


> True TDS. In my view its worse than piv where she's get some physical pleasure out of it. Oral is done as a one sided effort to please him meaning her heart nad the importance of the act was into satisfying him. The only thing she got out of it is mentally knowing she both put and sent him home with a smile on his face.


Women can get a lot of pleasure out of it. You're right, of course, that we don't get orgasms doing it.

But for a heterosexual woman, looking close up at a penis is fun and exciting. So is the smell (if he's clean and healthy), so are all the textures, the shapes. The transformation from soft to hard. 

Oral intercourse is just that, intercourse. There's the emotional "feels good" of being physically close to him.

If you feel attracted to someone, giving them an orgasm is very satisfying. An ego boost.

And swallowing is a high on a lot of levels. Not least of which is the fact that he is nourishing you; literally feeding you with his body. And sucking on a penis is somewhat like sucking on a nipple---whether we want to acknowledge this or not.

It's not as "selfless" as it's always made out to be.

When you men go down on a women (if you like doing it), is it "selfless"; or do you get a huge high out of it?


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

notmyrealname4 said:


> Oral intercourse is just that, intercourse. There's the emotional "feels good" of being physically close to him.


So basically you've made my case that oral is just as intimate and maybe more so than PIV intercourse. (the closeness, texture, the high that's felt etc.) I always had the opinion that husbands who were glad their wives "only" gave the other man oral sex before she stopped the affair were full of shyt.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

Betrayed2DMax said:


> ...she says she never swallowed and always pulled away when the AP was about to finish, t_hing is for me its a deal breaker if she swallowed_....


Betrayed, I have not read this entire thread, so maybe this has been suggested, but I would ask her to take a polygraph test and have that be one of the questions. Tell her you want to move forward but are having trouble feeling confident that you have the whole truth.

Then truly follow through with the test because some people who are lying will say sure as a bluff, thinking you won't actually go through with it.

But just know that if she did swallow, once you know that, you can't un-know it. 

Of course with as hard as you find it just to post anonymously on this topic you might be too self conscious to have a polygraph tester ask that question. But what they say is that you can only ask about 3 questions on the test anyhow. So you give your spouse a list of questions in advance and ask them to write down answers to all of them. From that list, they don't know which questions will be on the test.

They say a lot of people suddenly come clean in the car on the way their when they see the test is really happening.

BTW, I can understand why swallowing is a line crosser. It's intimate on a very base level, and a real ego boost to some guys. I can see that bothering you an exceptional amount. Kind of like as a woman it would be bad enough that my H screwed around, but if he spent a lot of money on her and took her out in public to nice places that would be even worse. Or some people feel even more betrayed if their spouse cheated in their own bed in the house where they pay the mortgage and sleep with their wife.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

notmyrealname4 said:


> When you men go down on a women (if you like doing it), is it "selfless"; or do you get a huge high out of it?


I enjoy giving oral to a woman. Pretty much what you wrote about giving oral to a man. Giving her an orgasm is rewarding to me, too.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

notmyrealname4 said:


> When you men go down on a women (if you like doing it), is it "selfless"; or do you get a huge high out of it?


I look forward to and enjoy doing. A big part of that though is b/c my W enjoys it a lot. If she didn't enjoy it, that would kill much of the excitement I would have in doing it.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

UMP said:


> If a married woman of 16 years with 3 children has the audacity to place another mans penis in her mouth while in a vehicle no less, for the express purpose of giving him pleasure, you can most assuredly assume that he finished in her mouth.
> 
> If it looks like ****, smells like **** and tastes like ****, you can pretty much bet the farm that it IS ****.
> 
> Sorry.


I agree, My years reading on TAM, SI, and LS has shown me that WWs are MORE sexually wanton with their OM. Doing things with their affair partner that the husband had for years been refused. 

So once a married mother of 3 is giving another man a blow job in a car, you know she is far gone. If the husband is getting a BJTC you know darn well that OM is getting some porn star level performance. 

I also doubt that a condom was used. Maybe the 1st time but after a few times she'll crave to feel the real thing. Fear of STD or pregnancy is far from the mind of a WW hopped up on Dopamine release.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

jsmart said:


> I agree, My years reading on TAM, SI, and LS has shown me that WWs are MORE sexually wanton with their OM. Doing things with their affair partner that the husband had for years been refused.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Do you also believe the plot lines of porn movies too? Come on - we don't know jack squat what happened.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

stillthinking said:


> When she does the poly, if she fails, she swallowed, more than once, that means you are out right?
> 
> But if she passes....no swallowing....what will you do?
> 
> ...


I read this and all I can say is WTF! @bigfoot hit the nail on the head sir.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

For me giving oral is the same as you describe it for some women. Not physically pleasurable, but extremely enjoyable for her reaction and for the closeness, / intimacy.

I think oral is every bit as intimate as PIV. 



notmyrealname4 said:


> Women can get a lot of pleasure out of it. You're right, of course, that we don't get orgasms doing it.
> 
> But for a heterosexual woman, looking close up at a penis is fun and exciting. So is the smell (if he's clean and healthy), so are all the textures, the shapes. The transformation from soft to hard.
> 
> ...


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Lucky me, mine likes to give oral quite a bit. Even a quickie here and there. Same for me back at her.

So, I guess rim jobs will be a major deal breaker for people?


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

TaDor said:


> Lucky me, mine likes to give oral quite a bit. Even a quickie here and there. Same for me back at her.


My ex said that she did but almost never did (and frankly was lousy at it most of the time).

IMO the thing she liked about it was (when she was younger) it gave her a sense of control over the guy and his reactions for guys that had either never had one or just overcome by the thought of the act. Since I didn't lose it in seconds I think that spoiled her enjoyment/sense of power.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

You are naive if you think your FWW didn't totally enjoy everything she did with the OM. Too bad you can't get inside her head like a good girlfriend can and get straight answers to your questions.

She contacted him, they met up, they did what they wanted to do for fun and excitement, and she has fond memories of the events! That doesn't mean she doesn't have fond memories of all the things you two do. It's not better or worse, it's just different because it was with a different person.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Yeah... different. But if they are remorseful - they'll know that its NOT real happiness... and that its destructive.

Came in her mouth, or not. She's brushed her teeth since then and used mouthwash. Yeah, there is a mental thing... but I consider the lying and deception to be the WORST.


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## niceguy28 (May 6, 2016)

OP. I want to go on record as saying that this is not the best advice but I can help you. Next weekend take about 500 dollars in cash out of the bank and go to a fine gentlemen's club and have the TIME of your life. Do not think about your wife or anything your wife did and make sure you get plenty of mind movies of your own to replay over and over again. Be single for a night and do whatever you want. That will help you get over this and move on and reconcile if you still want to do it. Drastic times call for drastic measures.


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