# Will I ever be able to forgive him



## brklynn (Oct 15, 2014)

My husband and I have been married for 17 years. We've been a couple since the ages of 14 and 15. For most of our marriage, we have been happy, agreeable, and pretty honest with one another. Early last year, I started having a gut feeling that something wasn't right. I noticed that my husband would often forget his computer at work and go alone to pick it up, I noticed he was spending more time on our home computer, and he even put a password on his cell phone. Each time I questioned him about his behavior, he would reply with a legitimate reason. I didn't want to accuse him of anything because I didn't have proof he was doing anything wrong, I just had this "feeling" that something had changed. After a few weeks of his strange behavior, I confronted him and asked if he was seeing someone else. He admitted that he was. He told me that he met someone through work and they spoke online, but they never met in person. I found out that he and this other woman had been carrying on an online affair for about three months and they continued the affair for another three-five months after I found out. Although, my husband never physically touched this woman, the conversations they shared and the idea that he "cheated" on me have kept me from trusting him again and forgiving him. I know there are two sided to every story and this is the brief version of my story, but I can't help but feel like my husband hasn't changed and that his character isn't worth being in this marriage any longer. Is there anyone out there, man or woman that is willing to share their advice and ears, please?


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## Twistedheart (May 17, 2010)

No. Not until you are way away from him will you be able to forgive. And that'll be because you will need to forgive in order to get over the whole ordeal and move on with your life. You will forgive but will never forget. 

And you are not getting the whole story. Good luck. It's a long road.


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

Forgiveness I have come to find out, is a double-edged sword if applied wrongly. Forgiving him is possible, but not without healing you first, with his positive, loving actions towards you as the balm. Here is where the issue comes in...He has to be completely remorseful for a true reconciliation to occur after that severe breach of trust. EA has more devastating effects than just a PA, if he was leaving the house often, I bet it was a PA too, the combo is by far worse for marriage survival. You are right to feel the uncertainty, insecurity and unsafety...Normal under the state of broken trust. Your gut is probably telling you something still isn't right aka he hasn't come fully clean with you yet, you won't be able to shake the feeling until he does come forth with the entire truth or you dig it up yourself and show him. However, forgiveness is not an automatic reconciliation, true remorse is the requirement for that. 

If he hasn't come clean with you yet, you are living a lie and he is getting away with it. Resolution must come one way or another. You have to self-preserve first...If it comes out later on, not only will you have to forgive him and kick him to the curb, but you will have a tremendous cesspool of self-forgiveness to clean-up for being so gullible and blinded by love. You need to read the Newbie thread by AlmostRecovered in my signature below and start placing VARs in his car and apps on his phone and the computer. You need to play it cool and start collecting evidence at this stage so you can confront with solid evidence and blow this sham of a ship out of the water.


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## ReidWright (May 15, 2014)

"they spoke online, but they never met in person."

and how do you know this? because your lying cheating husband told you? or did you speak to the woman? and this woman's husband or boyfriend, did you tell him? she never had a business trip to your location?

did you see the online communications with your own eyes? or just the sanitized version after you busted him?

sounds really trickle-truthy to me, and you can't forgive someone unless you fully understand what you are forgiving...


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Didn't you have another thread going?


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

My advice to you is, unless you have strong evidence to the contrary, not to believe it was only an EA.

Why? Because of the time length of the communication. I hate to tell you this, but it would be extremely unusual for a cheating man to be communicating for that many months with no sex involved. Men just don't fool around with EA's for very long.

I'm sure he's trickle truthing you to minimize. Before you decide whether you are able to forgive him; you need to know what you're forgiving.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Betrayals run deep. To many, they can not accept it as they themselves desire mutual values and respect. When that stops, it is too much for the relationship to survive. For others, they are forever watching the WS. Not a wonderful life then.

Your heart and mind will tell you what's best for you.

After you found out, how did he keep going. It is huge that he ignored your feelings and continued. Seems very selfish and totally unremorseful.


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

Unfortunately, as others have said, you can not take what he says at face value.

Cheaters lie to protect themselves and you from the full truth so they minimize what they tell you...no other way but to dig deep and become detective. 

Believe me when I say this, he wont admit to anything more than he has to.

Offer him a polygraph....tell him its booked and if he lies on it you will file for divorce..he might confess put under pressure but even then, chances are he will still still throw you some crumbs.

Good luck, but know that you are on a long road of ups and downs to get to the truth x


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

Is he sorry? Is he terrified that he is about to lose you?

If the answer to either is no, then you have a long hard road ahead.

If yes, then there is hope. Get help, don't dismiss the whole thing just because it's embarrassing. Talk about it, get support from friends and family.


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## Meli33 (Oct 16, 2014)

i agree with the other posters. He is not telling you everything. But, that comes with cheaters. They will only expose the bare minimum until they are caught out and are forced to admit the whole truth.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

That's terrible. Are you planning on divorcing him?

He stayed in contact with her after you confronted him? Wow, he doesn't seem to care about your feelings. 

What ended his affair? 

No, I would not want to stay with him and always be checking up on my husband. He should be sorry at the very least, begging at your feet, seeking marriage counseling. He's not. 

Do you have children? Is so, do they know? 

Were you happily married before he started to cheat?


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

I have been through this. The only way you can continue is if he is truly remorseful and is now willingly transparent about everything, answers all questions, does not blame shift to you, no more passwords you don't have and he sends a no more contact letter to her that you approve first.

The fact that he continued 5 months after D-day does not bode well. Why DID he end it with her? Was she a long-distance online affair that you can verify, or is she local?

The people that tell you he won't tell you everything until he has to are correct. A cheater has to believe it is his or her only way of keeping you to tell you everything. You can't fake that ultimatum, you have to mean it or it is useless to say. 

I meant it and my FWH did quit all contact. It's not easy, I will never trust him fully and I am finally getting to full forgiveness. I wasn't sure I would but it's been 19 months since the last D-day and there isn't one iota of evidence that he is still involved, and no gut feeling that way either. Actions, not words.


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## Imstrong123 (May 18, 2013)

You are right...there are two sides to every story....and usually by the time you find out someone is lying..there is more that never comes to light....having said this..give him ONE chance. But be strong and tell him he needs to earn back your trust by: going to therapy individually and to couples therapy..you also need to see someone. He needs to be an open book, no passwords, nothing secret, honesty and integrity are part of any relationship, even more so, a marriage...I think you should think about giving him a chance but if he refuses to go to therapy and be an open book, or pretends to still speak to this woman, I'd leave him alone for a few days telling you you need space and time to think about this entire thing.,this is not what you signed up for when you married him..so if he has changed, maybe this is the end...if he really loves you, he will do whatever it takes to change and make you happy...and I think it will happen for you!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

brklynn said:


> My husband and I have been married for 17 years. We've been a couple since the ages of 14 and 15. For most of our marriage, we have been happy, agreeable, and pretty honest with one another. Early last year, I started having a gut feeling that something wasn't right. I noticed that my husband would often forget his computer at work and go alone to pick it up, I noticed he was spending more time on our home computer, and he even put a password on his cell phone. Each time I questioned him about his behavior, he would reply with a legitimate reason. I didn't want to accuse him of anything because I didn't have proof he was doing anything wrong, I just had this "feeling" that something had changed. After a few weeks of his strange behavior, I confronted him and asked if he was seeing someone else. He admitted that he was. He told me that he met someone through work and they spoke online, but they never met in person. I found out that he and this other woman had been carrying on an online affair for about three months and they continued the affair for another three-five months after I found out. Although, my husband never physically touched this woman, the conversations they shared and the idea that he "cheated" on me have kept me from trusting him again and forgiving him. I know there are two sided to every story and this is the brief version of my story, but I can't help but feel like my husband hasn't changed and that his character isn't worth being in this marriage any longer. Is there anyone out there, man or woman that is willing to share their advice and ears, please?


Two sides to every story? 

Wryly, yes. 

But on both sides of this story he is being a cad to his wife.

Can you forgive him?

Yes but he gas to do the heavy lifting.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

iwontliedown said:


> This is why I hate men that forgives and reconcile with their wives who had many years of wild sexual affairs. Because if the shoe was in the other foot, these wives would never return the curtsey.
> 
> The husband was only involved in some phone calls and internet chat. I would take this anyday than a full blown, long term PA. Yet this woman is crying injustice!
> 
> This type of posts reinforces my view!


Yes! He was only disloyal to his wife. He only gave his heart and a bit of his soul to another woman.

I mean, what's the big deal?

:wtf:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Giving your emotions, the deepest part of you to another is an intense betrayal. You apparently have no clue what that feels like and how strong and powerful an EA can be. I'd wager you do not feel intense connections to people because of the weight you give to physical cheating.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

iwontliedown said:


> He did not give STD to his wife.
> He did not give low self esteem to his wife regarding her body.
> He did not give mind movies to his wife.
> He did not produce an affair child.
> ...




Unfortunate that your bar is so low. I feel sorry for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

iwontliedown said:


> He did not give STD to his wife.
> He did not give low self esteem to his wife regarding her body.
> He did not give mind movies to his wife.
> He did not produce an affair child.
> ...


Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play...?


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Have you ever had an EA?


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## badkarma2013 (Nov 9, 2013)

clipclop2 said:


> Giving your emotions, the deepest part of you to another is an intense betrayal. You apparently have no clue what that feels like and how strong and powerful an EA can be. I'd wager you do not feel intense connections to people because of the weight you give to physical cheating.




Naivete falls from our eyes
And we'll not regain
As we watch the tower falling down
---Duran Duran


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

well we know where you're coming from then. and your opinion can be summarily disregarded because its self serving.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

*Re: Re: Will I ever be able to forgive him*



clipclop2 said:


> Giving your emotions, the deepest part of you to another is an intense betrayal. You apparently have no clue what that feels like and how strong and powerful an EA can be. I'd wager you do not feel intense connections to people because of the weight you give to physical cheating.





clipclop2 said:


> Have you ever had an EA?


Cc, I can answer this for myself. Yes, that is what mine was, same with my husband's. Never anything physical, no meeting in person, only online, text, IM. Yes, it was very intense. I do not deny that. However, we are both in agreement that, at that time, physical would have been the final nail in that coffin. Emotional, we could forgive. Physical, we both put on a higher level. Doesn't mean it couldn't be forgiven now, but not then. And before you ask, I do not have any problems with having intense connections with anyone. I have those connections with different people, on different levels... including my husband, children, sisters, and close friends. All different, but still deeply connected. And I still put the physical act of sex on a higher level, as does my husband.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

iwontliedown said:


> I dont know what that expression means because I am not an American


Even I know that expression and I am British.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Dude is saying there is nothing to forgive Maricha. Do you agree?


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

iwontliedown said:


> I dont know what that expression means because I am not an American


Mr. Lincoln was shot to death at a show. Last thing he said was he -- needed these plays like he needed a hole in the head.


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

iwontliedown said:


> He did not give STD to his wife.
> He did not give low self esteem to his wife regarding her body.
> He did not give mind movies to his wife.
> He did not produce an affair child.
> ...


I hope what follows after this post is some clairvoyance, for you and others as well. 

I am at the beginning of the end of my marriage due to an online EA AP my wife is addicted to, yes addicted. This is not an overstatement or exaggeration. After I had her served She spent the weekend at her mothers house sitting, and near immediately reconnected with her EA partner from earlier this year. Now she wrote to types of letters, one of a list composed of what she wants in a man, which frankly I either am or once was before she changed all that and another written letter of all the things she will do for her new relationship, addressed as a first person to another, citing how she'll never cheat, lie, try to change him, will fight for them..... It's really fvcking sickening to tell you the truth, I mean it.

Now the list she wrote was marked with excellent penmanship, neat and precise, no mistakes. However the one where she is confessing or professing her undying commitment and affection is written erratically, with many mistakes and completely messy. The latter is when the affair fog dopemine is in full force. If I could scan it I would and post for everyone to see for authenticity. 

Now this so called harmless EA led to me having to change shifts, which cost me 30K a year, to ensure my children were getting showers, fed properly, attended for and in a clean environment for starters. This woman would near immediately stuff the children either in the family room basement or their rooms, if neither of these she'd lock herself in our bedroom talk dirty, make up stories and proceed to masturbate either during or after their phone call, I do not know for sure. During an argument she made sure to let me know I just came home right after she finished up one night.

For 2 months I was emotionally attacked, psychologically gaslit to the point of becoming a nervous wreck. Literally, I feared leaving her alone as I knew she'd get her high and not know what she was going to do next. To complicate matters she'd go from telling me he is just a friend to smugly saying "So what if I am" when I challenged her about her obvious love feelings for him. The change could be as fast as an hour, totally confusing the sh1t out of me. During the " He's just a Friend" status she'd engage in sex with me but whenever I challenged her she became hostile. 

If I were to tell you the crap she said and the marital rewriting of epic lore you'd ask or wonder if I was making this stuff up. Example, When I highlighted her mistreatment and neglect of our children she blame shifted onto me that I was neglectful as well. Naturally, I asked her what the hell she was talking about, apparently going to work, overtime, a request she constantly had because we "Needed" it I was neglecting them. Yes, By making money to support and care for my family I am a neglectful Father.

This is not even a microcosm of what this year was like, and now, she says she never loved me and hopes we can still be friend sin the future and that her rekindling of her friendship with this man is all just that, a friendship. Now after she rubbed it in my face a bit after I discovered it she resumed her aggression towards me, but given the tools and knowledge I had from this place and the good people here I was able to resist and fight back the way I needed to. Still, I tried one last intervention and asked my eldest 2 sons to assist me in doing so. Last night after she got home from work we assaulted this damaging friendship by explaining to her what exactly she had done to us and since they were part of it I felt their point of view would have an impact since they too were pissed off at her for her behavior. The result, although a good thing I suppose, is her leaving here within a day or so. Yes, she is nearly broke, is willing to leave her children and home and most of her belongings, for now, to keep relations with this man. She also made sure to by a new Iphone and cell phone plan. I have creditors calling constantly, 2 months worth of van, electricity and cable/intenet/Phone bills and need to get food soon. But a goddamn new fvcking phone to take selfies and facetime is what took priority because she said she needed it. 

Now this mans penis has yet to mate with her hoo-hah, as I am sure it will soon, and for the sake of being with her soul mate she blazed a path of destruction from this so called harmless EA. An EA that changed everything. Was she stoic in her loss of love for me when she needed something, no, need a bill paid, I love you, want to buy something from the store "We're in a better place now", Hell, take my breakfast sandwich I made without really asking for it, "It's because you love me". And I lapped it up too, for a time. I was weak and eventually had to pull myself out of the darkness to find my way, with a lot of help {Wink}.

So no matter what kind of affair it is, the destruction and hurt it leaves behind is devastating, even more so than death IMO. The discovery is the easy part since a ONS, Amazon River Reptile gang bang, minor kiss, or sexting, or...... is in truth the easy part and in the past, going forward and seeing how the wayward reacts and their efforts to right the wrong is much more challenging. How the Betrayed recovers is also telling since most waywards will "Cake eat", swooning the BS into Limbo. Only few have acted swiftly, while others roll the dice on whether or not they can forgive their mates or not, let alone trust.

So no, My wife did not get pregnant by her EA. Nor did I get an STD, yes I did get mind movies about what was happening in my Bedroom and what the muh-fuggah got to hear and/or see. And since this guy is younger, taller and simply another guy yes, my self esteem was completely deflated. She shared with him us and our history and her history and feelings. Things she........

If the OP wants to forgive him, and try to trust, the right belongs to her whether he gets a second chance or not.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Joker, you are awesome.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

*Re: Re: Will I ever be able to forgive him*



clipclop2 said:


> Dude is saying there is nothing to forgive Maricha. Do you agree?


No. That, I disagree with. EA is still a betrayal. And, honestly, it's up to OP whether she can or will forgive or not. For sone, emotional betrayal is the ultimate betrayal. For others, it is physical. Either way, I would say both are something where the betrayer has done something to betray, and should ask for forgiveness... if they want to repair the marriage. The only difference is the perception of the wronged. Most who have been betrayed, and most who are remorseful betrayers, agree with this, I think... The betrayed is the one who chooses which is harder to handle, not the betrayer, and not a forum full of people.

OP, yes, you CAN forgive, if you so choose. And yes, you CAN remain married and forgive... HOWEVER, he needs to stop contact with OW. Otherwise, it won't work.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Iwontliedown, no, having an attraction, of sorts, to a character in a book is not cheating. This is not what is going on with OP husband. You are comparing apples and oranges here. The OP husband was checking out of the marriage, being secretive, even password protecting his phone. Secrets can be ok, like not wanting the spouse to know about a gift he got for her. Password protecting is OK, too... if the spouse also knows the password. Having the password doesn't automatically mean she would snoop. I have my husband's and he has mine and we don't check each other's phones. But OP husband was doing ALL of these things, while carrying on with OW. OP stated as much in the initial post. The conversations they had were/are inappropriate. Regardless, he was emotionally invested in a relationship outside the marriage, rather than investing in his relationship with his wife. THAT is cheating. The OW and OP husband were emotionally feeding each other, no matter the content of the conversations. You can't feed the emotions of a book. And a book can't feed your emotions. You have an emotional RESPONSE to the scenarios depicted by the author, but you are not conversing with the book. The book cannot talk back to you about your emotional responses.


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

iwontliedown said:


> I am so sorry Joker you are going through this. But your wife is delusional. She doesn't need counselling. She needs to be put in the mad house. Because clearly she has gone insane (I guess schizophrenic).
> 
> EA I was talking about is different. Like talking to some about life problems and feelings, some things you are afraid to share with you SO. Not this. This is lewdness and madness.
> 
> As I said, some may develop a deep attraction for a character in the book or the author. Does that make them cheater?


Yeah, I agree, she is delusional, compartmentalized and will be leaving soon to "find herself" I am sure.

Anyway, the little harmless things you mentioned, life problems and/or feelings, is exactly what leads to a DEFCON 1 EA. It starts out harmless enough and once the base trust and communication is established the relationship grows more my default, the only thing that prevents it is personal bounds, which can fall at any moment when the want for attention becomes a need. In fact, by casting out these feeling toward the OW he was fishing for attention, admiration and sympathy, so in essence he chose to go into an EA with purpose.

I do agree that a sexual encounter is just as hurtful and deflating but the intent of an EA is to progress to this very activity. I am willing to bet if you wife got into the car, put the key into the ignition and you came out to confront her as she was just on her way to meet the OM you'd be pissed, devastated and all the other emotions that run amok after d-day. " Whew, glad I caught you before you did something stupid and hurtful honey, let's go inside, forget the whole thing and oh, look, a breaking bad marathon". This statement is not what you would say, is it?

Sorry to go all metaphoric but this is the path, one thing does lead to another. The other harmful and overlooked aspect of an EA is the invisibility of it. Sure, people catch their spouses in bed with OP's but once the act is discovered steps can be taken to rebuild trust and technical accountability. An EA is much more harder to ensure it is over or still going as we cannot read anyone mind's or feelings. An EA partner can be thought of during a conversation, sex, work, shower, dropping the kids off, anywhere and anytime. Technical accountability and total transparency can only assure us that contact has stopped, or damn close to it, but nothing allows for us to enter someones mind for the truth.

Iwontliedown, Please, take heed, do not make the same mistake I did by thinking this is nothing or cannot be harmful to a marriage, it is beyond devastating. 

And for the fictional or non-fictional Crush, you're reaching on this one. Sure, I watched Baywatch, porn, The late night girls gone wild commercials, but never did I expect these things to fill a void or substitute for my bride or anything else really. It is simply visual stimuli for men, and fantasy-ism for women. Porn could be on mute when watched and men do not care nor does the simulation become less lacking, for most people anyway, although I do like the moaning women and strangely enough all the men in porn look like me, who knew!!

For women though a combination of elements that include a six pack of abs, and all those other attributes the ladies visually adore, seem to need to be intertwined with an adventure, if even the trysts are the adventure part. For both sexes the expectations and fantasies begin and end within the realm of the medium's they are indigenous to. I no more expect the pizza delivery girl to come in for a "Tip" as most or all women do not expect Prince ABSulous to come riding into the driveway after the kids get on the bus. Your argument has been defeated.


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

I think many people are confused about what exactly an EA is. Emotional Affair, meaning an Affair that was not physical but still an Affair in every other way. Affection is given to someone other than your spouse. This is not just a slight crush on someone or spending more time with a "friend" and sharing personal conversations.

In our case my FWH's affair was virtual, phone, online, texting sexting , nude pictures sent by both. He told her he loved her, she told him she loved him. They spent countless hours texting and phoning each other. He found ways to stay away from me and our home to do this. 

When home he was distant and angry finding ways to start arguments which supported his new attitude that I was evil. Taking offense at everything I said, especially if I made the mistake of disagreeing with him on anything at all. Rewriting history to where after a perfectly nice day, at the end of the day if he became irritated with me he would say that I had "been like that all day long."

After her H had seen a text string of sexting between them and told her to stop she continued with my H , apparently willing to lose her marriage for this long-distance affair with a man she had never actually met.

I was ready to toss in the towel the 2nd time he did this with her, starting up again after 8 months of no contact. I knew I could never MAKE him stop. He realized what he was about to lose, and did stop. That was 19 months ago. SO far, so good, but it WAS an affair, if "only" an EA


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

There doesn't even have to be sexting or nude photos or phone sex. It can be very respectful and old fashioned. But the longing to be together, the desire to share yourself emotionally, the intense connection... that's a true EA.


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

clipclop2 said:


> There doesn't even have to be sexting or nude photos or phone sex. It can be very respectful and old fashioned. But the longing to be together, the desire to share yourself emotionally, the intense connection... that's a true EA.


Oh, for sure, I agree with this. in fact, I found the pictures i saw and the sexting kind of, I don't know, not funny, maybe pathetic, but inconsequential. They didn't really affect me that much. It was more the "I love yous" and the sharing of things between my WH and the OW about me/us that hurt. This was even more true the 2nd time with the same OW because it wiped away a year of what I thought was a great year for us, gone, just like that.


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## Zouz (May 28, 2014)

One sec , he might be an ******* but who can say that our friend is innocent ?

he was for more than 10years we didn't hear the other side of the story !

did alien came and gave him a T Shot ?

Dear , how long has your husband been rejected ?

How many times you turned him down ?

if he is a cheater , he is what he is , 

but here on TAM you can be say anything you want but you can't lie on yourself ,


admit it how many times you turned your back on him while he is horny breathing irregular beats ?

expecting that you will be nicer the next night , but the other night you feel tired .

And then you get your period and your hands ache too, so you can't even give him an HJ.

I might be wrong , but before shooting the guy let's have answers more clearly .


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> Even I know that expression and I am British.


But you still call us Yankees. 

Most Americans don't know originally that was an insult. So things go both ways across the pond.


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