# Need urgent advice- my wife of 10 years doesn't want to move



## Terran007 (Jun 14, 2009)

Hi all, I know I wrote novel down there in this post before, and I really apologize. Even though it is still long, it is a lot shorter than before! Let me sum it up as fairly and as quickly as I can...

I met my wife on the internet over 11 years ago (AOL 2.0). I lived in Miami, and she lived in Maryland. After 10 months of internet / phone dating, I couldn't wait for us to be together, so my parents were nice enough to drive me 1000 miles away just to give me away. I was really broke, and lived with her aunt's family in a spare room they had just a couple of houses away. I also worked as a baker at her aunt's house.

My original intention as we were "dating" was to go up to Maryland, and take her back with me so we can get married in Miami. My wife wasn't too enthused about this idea (and I must admit it had to have been one of the stupidest ideas known to man). When I talked to her father about this, he expressed concerns about 2 unmarried people traveling together. Since her family and I held Christian beliefs, I conceded, and changed my plan - to move up there and marry her.

So we got married, and 2 years after that, I was making the big money doing a hard labor trade in HVAC. Around that time, I began to try to convince my wife to move back down to Miami with me because I was homesick and I wanted her to get to know my family better. Well, she would always cut the conversation short with "I don't feel like talking about that right now", or "no, end of story", or would simply ignore me. And I would know she's ignoring me because when I ask her something to know if she is paying attention, she will literally tell me "I'm ignoring you".

The whole time being up here being homesick and missing my family has just gotten worse, not better. For the last 2 years I've been really begging her like never before. I thought I had her half-convinced. When I talked to my family about it, I told them that there were lots of variables for us to be able to move down there, and I told them what they were. Obviously, they want us to move down there, so they began researching for ways to eliminate our variables. One thing came up where my sister was going to be opening up a room for rent in her house in a couple of months, to let them know if we were interested first.

I told my wife about this idea that my sister proposed and that's when all the hell I've been experiencing broke loose. She told me that she doesn't want to live in someone else's house (agreed), or an apartment. I told her, well what do you expect, a house of our own, and two good jobs waiting for us down there? And she said "no, I won't go even if that's the case"... of course I was shocked because I knew I wasn't going to be able to provide a perfect smooth transition down there, but *now* even if it _were_ perfect, she wasn't willing to go. I had planned to tell her that I want us to move by Fall. Obviously that didn't go very well, and it then became an ultimatum which we are now at a stalemate. I have since then retracted my "decision" even though my mind is pretty made up. So instead of actually trying to honestly figure a way to actually make this work, she is fighting it every step of the way, not giving it any serious thought to the idea. My wife and I... we are peas in a pod. We love each other. We want to spend every waking moment with each other. We grow more in love each day (I suppose with the exception of this month, since it's been a little stagnant on the growth). We just celebrated our 10th year anniversary in June. I feel that I have come up here to live gladly - to make the sacrifice of not being with my family so that me and her could be together.

She will not reciprocate. We are at a major impass. She does have some valid points about finances, but they don't make much sense in the scheme of things. It's true, we have a lot of credit card debt, and we have to get out of that. I'm not working right now, but still getting income. The financial part of it makes moving difficult, but it is still definitely possible. A week after the initial argument, she said she was willing to come up with a long-term plan 1-2 years. Personally, I think it's just more of her insecurities. In 1-2 years, my school loans will come in... then what? Work for another 5 years to get those down? What if she becomes pregnant in 1-2 years? Will she still want to move knowing we have a child or child on the way? What if something happens to my back in 1-2 years and we can't save up like we wanted? What then? Her logical argument is logical. But she must subject her plan to chaos theory too, because most plans don't go according to... well, plan.

So, we've seen a couples counselor about it. She's really nice. She helped us understand each other better using mirroring. I'm afraid that the next appointment will be too far away (not this weekend, but the one after that). 

This is what it all comes down to here, if you really want to get into the nitty gritty.... I love my family. I was close to my family before I left them at the age of 18. I hoped to return someday. Growing here in Maryland didn't make being homesick any easier even though I feel I have become a man here, it has become more difficult. In the last couple of years, I was dealt a 1-2 punch (1, was being offered a job at my dream job then later to have it retracted leaving me to humbly go back to the hard labor job, then 2 was getting my back hurt), and it has made my desire to be with my family even greater. I cry at night thinking about my family. Last night, my wife caught me crying. I'm having a hard time trying to sleep at night because I know I'm not happy here, and that I will not be happy over there if I leave her. That is the dilemma I'm stuck in...

I love my wife so much, but even though we don't have any kids, and that I'll be unhappy here if we stay, and that I've lived 11 years away from my family.... she won't go with me. She seems to insecure to lose her job, but not insecure enough to lose a husband. I really intend(ed) to be married to this woman for the rest of my life. I almost feel like a fool for being the person to sacrifice being away from their family for someone who will not reciprocate. What's worse is that we both have had bad experiences with friends and family who we just do and do and do and do for, without ever getting anything back - we've given up on those people because they obviously don't care enough about us to reciprocate. That's kind of why I feel so shocked and depressed right now, because I feel my wife may have become one of those people to me. Or what's worse - may have been one of those people and I didn't even know it. I can't help feeling fooled. There's really no reason this should be this big of an issue.


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

you should calm down and enjoy the fact that, after so many years, your wife has finally consented to move away from her family so you can be with yours.

your wife obviously loves you very much.

waiting for two years before moving is very reasonable given your circumstances.

when you moved to maryland you were eighteen and single.

you now have a family and a home. your wife just wants to make sure she has a home in florida and doesn't have to completely start over.

but most importantly, calm down. you're finally getting what you've wanted for ten years. don't blow it now.

here's a smileyface  when you're smiling as broadly as that, get up from the computer and give your wife a hug and a thankyou and reassure her that you'll work very hard to make the transition as smoth as possible.

then next time work up to this  as you dream of soon being in florida with your family.


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## Sandy55 (Jun 3, 2009)

Can't argue with your wife, she is being reasonable IMHO. 

Her not wanting to move with you now is not a sign she does not love and care for you enough. It is a sign she is not READY to move and as evidence of that she said: "Give it two years".

She has several _very_ valid reasons:

First and most important she has a job and has been diligently supporting you through some serious issues with your ability to work. She supported your desire to do the video gaming art. 

Second, the money you two are getting should not be used for a move. It should be used to pay off your credit cards, as it is likely the bills on those cards were run up _due to the accident_. Even if the cards were not run up for that reason, the cards need to be paid off ASAP due to the economy this world is now in. MOVING in this economy is NOT wise with a wife who has a solid, long term, job she LOVES! I don't think you are thinking rationally on the importance of her job and her happiness at her job; what IF she went to FL and she found a job she hated?? Then you'd have no money, no wife, no nothing.

You somewhat come off as a young boy pitching a temper tantrum with her. I think you should tell her she has valid points, pay off those credit cards and THEN discuss this with her. 

Ten years is a long time to be in a place and have roots. 

Her parents and your parents were very good to stay out of your business. It IS between you two and no one in your family should be taking sides.

Your wife sounds dependable, reliable, and stable. You don't want to lose that and I understand you don't want to live in Maryland, but you say you love her. Maybe she does not want to live in FL; FL is SO different than MD. There are no seasons in FL. You were correct that MD, where you are living is a better place to raise kids than FL. The population in FL is much more transient than MD.

Focus on the fact she is dependable. Focus on where you want to TRULY raise your kids, they are very important. Perhaps more visits, or asking your parents to visit more.

Be careful what you wish for...when it comes to moving.


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## Terran007 (Jun 14, 2009)

recent_cloud said:


> you should calm down and enjoy the fact that, after so many years, your wife has finally consented to move away from her family so you can be with yours.
> 
> your wife obviously loves you very much.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the feedback. I really need as many takes on this as possible.




Sandy55 said:


> Can't argue with your wife, she is being reasonable IMHO.
> 
> Her not wanting to move with you now is not a sign she does not love and care for you enough. It is a sign she is not READY to move and as evidence of that she said: "Give it two years".


How do you say she is being reasonable if she would never open a dialogue with me about this throughout all these years? And I honestly think now she threw in the whole "two years" deal after an entire week of argument, after she said she wouldn't even go if conditions were perfect. That doesn't sound very reasonable to me.

Please help me understand how ending the relationship by not going with me means that she cares about me specifically.



> First and most important she has a job and has been diligently supporting you through some serious issues with your ability to work. She supported your desire to do the video gaming art.
> 
> Second, the money you two are getting should not be used for a move. It should be used to pay off your credit cards, as it is likely the bills on those cards were run up due to the accident.


There is no word in the English language to describe how supportive she has been. I can't deny that... but risking sounding like a jerk, let's keep it in some perspective - her support for me means support for her too. And if the roles were reversed, I would have done the same for her. And the roles have been reversed as far as my willingness to live in a strange land with strange people for her. Apparently, she doesn't care to do the same for me - which is surprising to be quite frank.

As far as the settlement money, we wanted to pay off bills with that naturally. But if we use some of it to start off in Florida, the transition will be smoother and some of the bills will still be paid. I believe it is being somewhat reasonable given my emotional need to be with my family sometime soon. Because I can't deny, my need isn't logical. I've been trying and trying to open a dialogue with her about it but she shuts it down every time. It's just bubbled over now and is practically an unstoppable need (at least as I can foresee).



> Even if the cards were not run up for that reason, the cards need to be paid off ASAP due to the economy this world is now in. MOVING in this economy is NOT wise with a wife who has a solid, long term, job she LOVES!


Ok, I shouldn't have said that she loves her job, because like many, she doesn't. But she does love the freedom that being at a job for 6+ years can give. She wants to be a homemaker, and doing any kind of job is not her dream job. Just thought I'd clarify because I stated something incorrectly.

And I can't argue with you about the economy, etc... but on the other side of the same coin, both careers we have are in high demand and paying very well, and prices for homes and such are really low right now. And like I've said, people have done much more with much less and make it work, so it's not an impossibility.


> I don't think you are thinking rationally on the importance of her job and her happiness at her job; what IF she went to FL and she found a job she hated?? Then you'd have no money, no wife, no nothing.


You're right, but on the other side of that prediction, what if we go to FL and she found a job she loved? Because at this point, we don't go to Florida, and I'll be miserable. At least at any given point in the next year, one of us will be - either we stay here, I'll be miserable. If we go, she'll be. But I think I've done a good share of spending time at a place to be with her and it wouldn't be unreasonable to ask someone to reciprocate, don't you think?



> You somewhat come off as a young boy pitching a temper tantrum with her. I think you should tell her she has valid points, pay off those credit cards and THEN discuss this with her.


Well, when you're trying to tell someone that you're unhappy about being away from their family for so many years and they never listen, I think that it is reasonable to think someone would blow the heck up at some point. So yeah, I don't have the most rational argument in the world, but I've had no voice in the matter all these years.


> Ten years is a long time to be in a place and have roots.


And ten years is a long time to ask someone to be away from their family, only to ask them to continue to do so for another two.


> Her parents and your parents were very good to stay out of your business. It IS between you two and no one in your family should be taking sides.


I agree. We never go to them with our crap, and I feel that has been a winning solution all these years. I see so many couples running to their parents about their spouses, and that just ruins everything. But this problem was too big not to try to have opinions on.



> Your wife sounds dependable, reliable, and stable. You don't want to lose that and I understand you don't want to live in Maryland, but you say you love her. Maybe she does not want to live in FL; FL is SO different than MD. There are no seasons in FL. You were correct that MD, where you are living is a better place to raise kids than FL. The population in FL is much more transient than MD.


My wife is very dependable, reliable and stable. And she may not want to live in Florida, but wouldn't that mean that her love is dependent on where in the world we live if she's willing to just let me go because I want to live somewhere else? Why would that be fair to me, if I was willing to move somewhere else for her? Am I supposed to be the one with the only love that goes beyond location?


> Focus on the fact she is dependable. Focus on where you want to TRULY raise your kids, they are very important. Perhaps more visits, or asking your parents to visit more.


Maybe... and also for the record, we may not be able to have children. We've been trying for about 4 years but she has PCOS.

Also, I hope you understand that my post sounded argumentative, but that doesn't mean that I don't appreciate your advice. In fact, if it weren't for the fact that I was actually sitting with my wife watching television just now, I would have thought for sure that you were her. I think in the end it all comes down to the fact that I just don't get it, and I need to at least understand why this is happening like this.

I know people get up and move. I know that women usually follow their husbands. I know that sometimes people have emotional needs that cannot be talked down - especially after so many years of trying to bring it up but only to be shut down every single time. I don't even know what to write anymore - all I know is that I can't stay here any longer. My mind and heart have been made up, but my decision hasn't been made because I'm trying to have her reciprocate at least a portion of the sacrifice I've made for her of being away from my family.

Point is, monetary-wise... it can be done. Can we sustain ourselves afterward? I believe so. Will she be happy there? Time would tell. Will I be happy here? No. Can I stay here much longer? No. Is she willing to go with me? No. Do we love each other? Yes. Dilemma? Hell yes.


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## Sandy55 (Jun 3, 2009)

Do you think perhaps you have been ringing the same "bell" so long she is tone deaf and simply is not taking you seriously? Maybe you have been repeating yourself so much without drawing a line in the sand, that she does not truly believe you mean what you say?

Do you have a job lined up? 

If you really want to go, then make a plan and do it. If I were her I would want to know you were serious AND seriously looking for a job job in FL. Tell her that although you love her dearly, you feel she is being too rigid and marriage is 50/50. 

Perhaps if you find a job in FL well paying enough that she does not have to work full time, she could just be a home maker?

If she still balks, then say "Lets just do it for four years". If you don't like it we can move back. And mean it.

BTW, I thought you had kids she was wanting to stay in MD near her folks as they were "entrenched". Now, I think she IS being unreasonable, she needs to flex but because you have been making noises so long, she is tone deaf. 

Stop making noises and DO something if you really need to do this.


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

Terran007 said:


> I know people get up and move. I know that women usually follow their husbands. I know that sometimes people have emotional needs that cannot be talked down - especially after so many years of trying to bring it up but only to be shut down every single time. I don't even know what to write anymore - all I know is that I can't stay here any longer. My mind and heart have been made up, but my decision hasn't been made because I'm trying to have her reciprocate at least a portion of the sacrifice I've made for her of being away from my family.


feeling you were shut down for so long is a legitimate complaint.

just remember though that talk of her leaving her family frightened, frightens, her.

but, having a legitimate complaint and getting what you want are two very different things.

i'd guess that feeling shut down is part of a larger, more intricate dynamic between you and your wife and you'd be best served to leave that discussion for another time and focus on the project at hand, that is, getting to florida with family intact.

there's an expression in business when negotiating a deal: don't talk past the close. it means once you've achieved your goal, shut up, because anything you say after the consummation of said deal could sabotage the progress.

put the issue of feeling shut down on the back burner until you're in the counselor's office and concentrate on getting ready for your move.

sandy55 has some sound practical advice, and one i'd like to reaffirm: start lining up some job opportunities in florida.

butbutbut take your victory, however pyrrhic it may seem.


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## Terran007 (Jun 14, 2009)

Sandy55 said:


> Do you think perhaps you have been ringing the same "bell" so long she is tone deaf and simply is not taking you seriously? Maybe you have been repeating yourself so much without drawing a line in the sand, that she does not truly believe you mean what you say?


It is really possible. But I mean I have literally seen her specifically ignoring me when I would talk about it. And I know she was doing it on purpose because I would ask her something just to know that she's listening and she tells me "I'm ignoring you". Or sometimes she would just cut me off and tell me "I don't want to talk about it", and that's the end of that. Or, "No. End of story" - all pretty verbatim. It's true, it happens to all of us with stuff we don't want to hear, so maybe that was part of it.

And yes, I have to be honest, moving to Florida has never become a priority financial-wise. That's mainly because she never let us discuss it seriously together. Instead it was always me trying to start the dialogue, and her just stopping it in its tracks. Now that I gave her an ultimatum she wants to begin discussing this. I personally think it's too late to discuss it.



> Do you have a job lined up?
> 
> If you really want to go, then make a plan and do it. If I were her I would want to know you were serious AND seriously looking for a job job in FL. Tell her that although you love her dearly, you feel she is being too rigid and marriage is 50/50.


No, I don't have a job lined up and I'll tell you why... it all started when I was starting to tell her that my sister had a room she was getting ready to rent in a few months, and wanted to offer it to us first for dibs. It has its own entrance, little fridge, etc... it isn't the best idea in the world, but it's not a bad place to start. Anyway, I could understand any hesitation she might have had about the idea, because quite frankly, I don't want to live in a room even if it is big and has it's own entrance and a small fridge. But she totally blew up about it big time - all because I mentioned the opportunity (and not as our only option, and she knew that).

I told her in the argument that things won't be perfect starting out, to open her mind to possibilities and opportunities. I also asked her what would be ideal for her to move with me... "what, do you want a house and great paying jobs the day we arrive?" And she told me that even if that were the case, she wouldn't move. That really shocked the heck out of me as you can imagine...

Two days after the silent treatment that followed that argument, I told her that I loved her enough to not ask for an answer from her in one night. But even though my mind has been made up, that I will take back the decision for now in order to discuss it. And well, after a few serious discussions and over a week later, now she wants to go, but only after getting our finances together after 2 years. We're at a complete impass with this.

Otherwise, I would have been looking for a job already last Monday. But I said I would hold off so that we had the opportunity to make a serious decision together.


> Perhaps if you find a job in FL well paying enough that she does not have to work full time, she could just be a home maker?


That would be fantastic, but that wouldn't happen for at least a year after we move down there just to make sure we get out of our debt. After that, it is definitely a possibility.


> If she still balks, then say "Lets just do it for four years". If you don't like it we can move back. And mean it.


I might have to. We'll have to see what a counselor has to say about it first I think. Because right now, there is a herd of elephants in the room, and if I touch that third rail right now...


> BTW, I thought you had kids she was wanting to stay in MD near her folks as they were "entrenched". Now, I think she IS being unreasonable, she needs to flex but because you have been making noises so long, she is tone deaf.


You might be right... now she might have just gone ape crap because now she sees how bad it is because she wouldn't listen before and it has taken her by surprise. And the weird thing is that she has even told me that she has noticed how unhappy I've been in the last 2 years... that's just weird to me that she takes it this way.


> Stop making noises and DO something if you really need to do this.


I know! I just don't want to do something and live in regret and unhappiness anyway. And I really do love her, and I feel nothing has changed in her love for me, and that's why it puzzles me. Maybe this curiosity stems from the idea that I might have been wrong about her degree of love this whole time? Then that leads to... "how the heck was I this wrong about something like this?" And then on top of that, I feel guilty for feeling that, because of how much I do think she loves me. But then I go back and forth on the same issue. If she loves me, why is she not willing to make this sacrifice for me, if I made it for her?



recent_cloud said:


> feeling you were shut down for so long is a legitimate complaint.
> 
> just remember though that talk of her leaving her family frightened, frightens, her.
> 
> ...


You might be right about that. I wish I can get past this whole thing and focus. Right now it feels that the discussion is like touching the third rail. But also read in my post to Sandy55 - I feel I would be betraying my word to her about making decisions. I'll have to think about it for sure though, because we have discussed it, and haven't come to any conclusions.


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## Terran007 (Jun 14, 2009)

Sorry for the double post, but I thought I would update...

We went to the marriage counselor and she was very nice. She used a mirroring technique and we were able to communicate very well. We were digesting the things each other have said.

I'm afraid that the next appointment will come too late. Stresses are getting back to high levels of me wanting to leave again.

The other night I was crying in bed and I thought my wife was asleep, but she caught me and confronted me about it when I came back from the bathroom. I didn't really know what to tell her... so I told her "I was crying about what's been keeping me up at night for the last month". How do I make her understand how much I miss my family? I miss them so much, that her mother (because we brought this issue to them in order to get some feedback, even though I knew it wasn't to be fair or impartial feedback ahead of time) basically made me look like a scumbag to want to go back to Miami. She just couldn't believe that I wanted to see my family so badly, that I would question my marriage about it, so she began trying to put a puzzle together with pieces that just didn't fit.

I personally don't think that my wife has any clue as to how much I miss my family. Just tonight I cried. I couldn't go to sleep again, so I got up and stood in front of the doorway to the den. I don't know if my wife knew I was crying or not - I was looking at a calendar of my family. She went to the bathroom (right outside the den). I was looking at the June pictures, and how I had to turn the page to July, and there was one of my nephews. I cried during the June pictures, I cried during the July ones. I also cried because of the fact that I _was_ turning a page to yet another month I didn't get to see them. To look over at 4th of July, and know I won't spend that day with my family. With hers instead. Must be nice... 
Don't get me wrong, I love her family as if it were my blood. But damn, I have this entire other family somewhere else and I really miss them. And my wife (apparently) doesn't want to be a part of them.

As she was going to the bathroom, she was clueless about my inner turmoil when she asked "Am I going to have to put up with this every night?"... not knowing that what she was "putting up with" every night was me trying to figure out an answer to that very question... whether or not, she was going to have to deal with me another day, or was I going to leave? How oblivious...

I guess the reason I'm on tonight is because I haven't been sleeping. I've taken an ambien (again) and it doesn't really do anything when I'm having this kind of emotional turmoil. Before going to bed, everything was "ready", if you know what I mean. She then went to her computer to turn if off, and there was an e-mail subject with something I'd rather not type out here, but it was sex-related on my e-mail account. It was a FWD of a dirty joke. I haven't read it though (filed under unread). So then she reads it, and of course, it's a dirty joke. My niece sent it to me, to some of her friends, and to a couple of her cousins (other nieces and nephews). Now, I'm sure it is reasonable to be confused about why my niece is sending me dirty jokes, and I can understand. But my nieces and nephews are all grown up (I'm only 2 years older than my oldest nephew, and I'm an old fogie of 29), and they are like brothers and sisters to me. I am the youngest of 4 siblings total. The next youngest person after me, is my brother that is 9 years older than me - so I grew up and was raised with basically my nieces and nephews as brothers and sisters because their ages ranged to within 7 or 8 years younger than me. The niece in question is 25.

Anyway, my wife went bonkers over it. She said it was the most gross thing she'd ever read in her whole life and told me to tell my niece to stop sending me these forwards (some are jokes, some dirty, and some of them cute, or inspirational). With all of my emotions built up from missing my family and her truly wondering why is it that I cry at night, I really should have told her:

"this, is why I cry at night. Because you want me to stop receiving communications from someone I hardly ever see and I really miss. It's been over a *year* since I see her, and now you want me to tell her to stop communicating with me because you don't agree with the content of the message???? How many times have you, your sisters, or parents told a dirty joke? How many of those times have I told you to correct them???"

That's what I should have said. Instead, I just took it all inward as I usually do. Turned over the other way, turned off the light. 5 minutes later she was snoring, and I was raging inside. I spend another 10 minutes in bed with rage actually _building up_. I just couldn't take it anymore. I went around the house looking for things to pack, and how I would pack them, and how they would fit in my car (without doing any of it, just thinking about it)... thinking if this were the night... what do I have to do.

Instead, I love my wife enough that I'll try to rant about it to sit here and post in order to get some comfort from strangers in order to not leave and make a big mistake. I just don't know what to do anymore. It is quite possible 50/50 chance that tonight is the night. I want it to be... but I don't want it to be.


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## JDPreacher (Feb 27, 2009)

What a selfish wench for not wanting to move with you and what a wimp for crying about not being able to move back to Florida...wait, was that my outloud voice? Whoops...sorry, sorry, sorry...sometimes my fingers type what I'm thinking...uh, hmmm...

Anyway, I'm dying to know why you haven't just made arrangements to visit your family more often? If finances are at an impass but you can still find a way to move, then wouldn't it be just as easy to find a way to visit?

With all the technology today, and unlimited long distance from many phone and cable companies, frequent phone calls, video conferencing...I know they aren't the same but still, they can provide some escapism and help alleviate the missing your family part.

You're in a difficult situation but you're making it worse IMHO, marriage is about finding the middle ground and to me, that middle ground here would be staying where you are and going on vacation and visiting home more often.

Yes, you have to concede to moving but sometimes there is greater good in being the better person.

Preacher


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

When I was working I could not have left my job, would lose all possibility of a pension, which I now have.
Another thing too is: Florida is a place I would never want to live. 
I can understand how she feels.

Maybe after you both are able to retire, you can find a neutral ground or place to retire to... thats what my husband and I are doing. We are both exceited to move too !


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## Terran007 (Jun 14, 2009)

JDPreacher said:


> What a selfish wench for not wanting to move with you and what a wimp for crying about not being able to move back to Florida...wait, was that my outloud voice? Whoops...sorry, sorry, sorry...sometimes my fingers type what I'm thinking...uh, hmmm...
> 
> Anyway, I'm dying to know why you haven't just made arrangements to visit your family more often? If finances are at an impass but you can still find a way to move, then wouldn't it be just as easy to find a way to visit?
> 
> ...


Hey Preacher, I appreciate your feedback.

Firstly, you _did_ say that outloud! But I appreciate it. I do feel like an utter wimp. I feel that as much as it hurts to say it, I was a wimp and couldn't stand not being with her anymore, so I moved up here to be with her - against all odds and realities (even when after discussing it back over the years, she has admitted that if it weren't for me moving up here, we wouldn't be together because she would have never have moved down there for me - and I've also heard her say knowing what she knows now, would she have moved down there for me when we first met, and she said yes, that she would have. So I don't know wtf has changed since then or what). I'm also such a wimp because I just haven't showed her how serious I am about this by just leaving. I feel I have a right to. I might just will anyway.

I don't think that I can say that I will be ok with just visiting them. I have given this so much thought, and the only conclusion I can come to is that we will have to move there.

I visit them about 1.5 times a year. Sometimes it's twice within a year... for example, I spent Christmas with them (finally) in 2007, but in June of 2008 I went over by myself for a couple of days because my mom was having surgery. But now it's been over a year since I see any of them.

As I was posting this (or afterwards), I was thinking about just spending 4th of July with them - just driving down there. Not sure if I would stay though - but that's why I'm hesitant. I might just not come back.

Good points of the better person. I've felt that I've been the "better person" in this for too long and need reciprocation. Do you think it would be fair to question the love someone has for you if you were willing to live in a strange land with strange people for someone, but after 11 years of doing so, they will not return the favor? Because that's what I find myself doing even though I know she loves me. I just wonder if I had an illusion as to how vast her love was. I didn't think it was that much of a sacrifice to do that for her because I love her so much. So this sacrifice is too much for her, why? Does it really matter where in the world we live?

Also, we have the potential to move financially... obviously that leaves the potential to have a vacation instead. But she's been taking so much time off of work, and I honestly am not interested in going for vacation. I know it is selfish and very one sided, but I think we've done that long enough.


preso said:


> When I was working I could not have left my job, would lose all possibility of a pension, which I now have.
> Another thing too is: Florida is a place I would never want to live.
> I can understand how she feels.
> 
> Maybe after you both are able to retire, you can find a neutral ground or place to retire to... thats what my husband and I are doing. We are both exceited to move too !


Hey Preso, thanks for the feedback!
We're too far away from retirement to retire. Plus, it's not about pension why she doesn't want to get another job, it's because she's been there for 6 years and likes the freedom she has from it. She's also way too insecure to start at a new place. I feel like I have to be overly secure for both of us. We operate pretty well this way - we're opposites in many ways... but this is just too much for me to ask her to play opposite on. 

Plus, we would have to wait for new health insurance to kick in, and there being risks we won't be covered for pre-existing conditions. Very valid reasons, but she's not even exploring or heck... even _entertaining_ the idea that our next insurance will cover us.


I think that after responding to your posts, I feel that maybe I'm looking for validation from her to an extent. Looking for her to seriously think about moving. But we haven't sat down and talked about a possible plan yet. She just won't entertain the idea at all, other than talking about all the negatives. I don't even know what to write anymore. I almost feel catatonic at times when thinking about this. But I feel it is time for action now, not just words. Words have obviously fallen on deaf ears and hearts.


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## JDPreacher (Feb 27, 2009)

Okay then, if this is something you can't live without, then make an exit plan and go...why be tortured and continue to torture her?

If she moves unwillingly you're going to end up in the same place, divorce court...so why not save the bitterness and resentment.

If you're looking for validation, you're not going to find it...you moved to be with her and she knows that...why are you now asking her to prove her love for you by asking her to move?

It's a complicated mess with a simple solution...

Preacher


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## Sandy55 (Jun 3, 2009)

You know, I just read over this entire thread, and responses, inputs.

You are in a MAJOR power struggle. This is NOT about family and missing them. You are 29 for heaven sakes, and as JD said (I think it was HIM) there are emails, video, PHONES. 

I believe the POWER struggle is from you _feeling_ like a whimp! There is something else afoot here....

and I can't put my finger on it.

I don't know WHY you don't just go! You have no job and no kids. Why not just GO for an extended vacation as someone mentioned?

When I read your posts about how IMPORTANT your family is, seeing your family, you make me think of my LATINO friends...big extended FAMILY is SOOOOO important to THEM, it is their culture. 

Are you Latina/Hispanic descent and your wife _not _of such, or she IS and she is insisting on staying near her BIG Latino family?


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## Sandy55 (Jun 3, 2009)

Also: 

Few times do I meet men who miss family so very much as you seem to be expressing. UNLESS they are Latino.


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## Terran007 (Jun 14, 2009)

Well it's certainly easier said than done I'm sure you know! This woman has been my life... we've just grown so much together. Everything else in our relationship is near perfection! We are the envy of most couples in the way we get along and love each other! But this one issue... it's earth-shattering to the both of us.


JDPreacher said:


> If you're looking for validation, you're not going to find it...you moved to be with her and she knows that...why are you now asking her to prove her love for you by asking her to move?


I have trouble understanding your question here... I guess I don't understand the premise (and I'm struggling with understanding this in general)...
Wouldn't it be reasonable to say that if someone were to move to be with someone, and the other wasn't willing to do the same thing for the other, that there is some sort of difference in the things one would do for the love? And that the person who was not willing to move is taking advantage of the other, taking advantage of having a nice relationship at the expense of their sacrifice?

If that were the case, wouldn't it be reasonable to say that the one who is not willing to reciprocate a sacrifice, doesn't love the other one enough, because they will let the sacrifice come between them? Therefore not loving the other one enough to overcome as the other one has, or is willing to do?

I'm stuck there, because it seems reasonable to me - and that's why I find myself questioning my wife's love - if it was never as strong to overcome 'location' as I had made myself believe it was.


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## JDPreacher (Feb 27, 2009)

See that's just it...you did this for her and now you want her to do the same for you...and she isn't...so you're put out and you are questioning her love and devotion for you.

No, because someone isn't willing to reciprocate an unselfish act or make a similar sacrafice doesn't mean they don't have the same amount of love as the person who did...nor love them more or less.

There are a lot of options that you have summarily dismissed because it's not what YOU want...it's fine to miss your family and long to be with them but you're a grown ass man who has a wife to take care of, that's where your first and most important priority lies.

I agree with Sandy, there is a bit of a power struggle going on but I think the underlying issue here is you're immature and somewhat selfish.

Maybe putting it in a different perspective will make it easier to understand...

I buy someone I love and outrageously expensive Christmas present and they buy me a box of chocolates...now I'm pissed because I spent $1000 on them and they spent $9.95 on me...so I badger them into spending an equal amount and I badger them and badger them until Christmas is ruined from here on out...all the time knowing...

It's not the gift, it's the thought that counts...

Preacher


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## Terran007 (Jun 14, 2009)

Sorry for the double post...


Sandy55 said:


> You know, I just read over this entire thread, and responses, inputs.
> 
> You are in a MAJOR power struggle. This is NOT about family and missing them. You are 29 for heaven sakes, and as JD said (I think it was HIM) there are emails, video, PHONES.
> 
> I believe the POWER struggle is from you _feeling_ like a whimp! There is something else afoot here....


Well, that's why it's difficult. Everyone is accusing me of having some sort of subconscious ulterior motive, when it is just simply... I intended on going back some day, and I miss my family. Although the technology wasn't what it is today, when I met my wife online, there was a lot of that too, but I 'missed' her enough to move up there to be with her... cuz I'm a wimp I suppose. I feel she took advantage that I was a wimp when she knew she wasn't willing to reciprocate such a sacrifice. Now, I miss my family and can't live without them as much as I couldn't live without my wife when I first met her online...

But I want both... she has had both for 11 years. I think it's my turn, and I've been thinking it's been my turn for at least 8, and she won't hear me out. I'm not even asking for 11 years, let alone a lifetime. It's not fair she doesn't get to know my family when I got to know hers.


> I don't know WHY you don't just go! You have no job and no kids. Why not just GO for an extended vacation as someone mentioned?


I honestly don't know... I think it is because I try to live my life without regrets, and I'm wondering which will be a bigger regret... not being with my family because of someone who won't move with me - thus being unhappy... or the bigger regret being that I leave the one I love because she is unwilling to do for me what I've done for her.


> When I read your posts about how IMPORTANT your family is, seeing your family, you make me think of my LATINO friends...big extended FAMILY is SOOOOO important to THEM, it is their culture.
> 
> Are you Latina/Hispanic descent and your wife _not _of such, or she IS and she is insisting on staying near her BIG Latino family?
> Also:
> ...


lol how did you guess I was of hispanic decent wanting to move to *Miami*??? Oh noes! The plot thickens! 

But yes. I talk to my family on the phone at least once a week. Then there's text messages... probably about a dozen of those a week.

Maybe that's it, she just don't want to be around a bunch of crazy Cubans.


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## Terran007 (Jun 14, 2009)

JDPreacher said:


> I buy someone I love and outrageously expensive Christmas present and they buy me a box of chocolates...now I'm pissed because I spent $1000 on them and they spent $9.95 on me...so I badger them into spending an equal amount and I badger them and badger them until Christmas is ruined from here on out...all the time knowing...
> 
> It's not the gift, it's the thought that counts...
> 
> Preacher


I think you're wrong. Buying something for someone monetarily is different than a sacrifice of love. With a sacrifice of love, you are spending your love for them (if we are looking at it in this type of analogy). If someone can't "afford" to give the same amount of love, then why is it that they are considered to love the other person as much?

Surely, the analogy you provided about money has really no true bearing in this, because monetarily, it doesn't make sense to expect reciprocation (unless we're talking about the 5 languages).


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## JDPreacher (Feb 27, 2009)

Ugh...there are none so blind as those who CHOOSE not to see.

If that's all you focused on in my reply, then you have more issues than anyone on here will be able to help you with.

Preacher


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## Sandy55 (Jun 3, 2009)

HALT. STOP.

You ARE of Latino/Cuban descent?


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## Sandy55 (Jun 3, 2009)

And SHE is NOT??


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## Terran007 (Jun 14, 2009)

JDPreacher said:


> Ugh...there are none so blind as those who CHOOSE not to see.
> 
> If that's all you focused on in my reply, then you have more issues than anyone on here will be able to help you with.
> 
> Preacher


Preacher, that's because other than about our previous conversation, your post talked about you thinking that I am selfish and immature. I don't know how to answer that, because what am I supposed to do? I don't know what to tell you. Tell you that I'm not? I'm not sure how that will solve your suspicions.

I know I can be selfish sometimes as much as anybody else, and that I am immature to an extent, but I know when things are serious too. I don't see how someone can explain or disprove to someone on a forum whether or not they are immature or selfish, so what do you want me to say?

The rest of your post however, is about a conversation we were having about my confusion about whether or not someone can love someone else as much when they are not willing to reciprocate a sacrifice, so that is what I chose to reply about. I don't agree with your point of view on that matter, but I certainly want to understand it because that is what my wife is saying. Understanding you, is understanding my wife. Only because I've engaged in debate with you about it doesn't mean I don't want to understand - quite the contrary!

And as far as underlying issues, I don't know what to tell you. Everyone says the same thing, but I simply propose that it's just me missing my family and having missed them for so long, I want to be with them already.

And as far as options I've dismissed, you're right. I have an emotional need - not a logical one. I have not claimed otherwise. I am also willing to listen to other options, but what am I supposed to do when after so much careful thought, I've come to the conclusion that I won't be happy unless I live down there? At least for a while? This can be done several ways which are up for discussion (here and with my wife), but what can I say? What do you want me to say?



Sandy55 said:


> HALT. STOP.
> 
> You ARE of Latino/Cuban descent?


Yes. I AM Cuban. I was born there, and I came over when I was not even a year old, so I was raised here.
And no, she is as American as can be. Born in the capital of the United States, and hasn't lived more than 50 miles from where she was born.


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## Sandy55 (Jun 3, 2009)

The influence of culture cannot be ignored in all this. It is EXTREMELY important! 

I have dealt VERY closely with someone who is Latino/Colombian. 

First, one must remember that in the Latino culture, one does not "cleave unto the wife....and the two shall become ONE...forsaking parents...etc."

In the LATINO (Cuban is Latino heritage) culture two people get married and they become A PART OF THE BIGGER GROUP of Latinos!  It is SO true!

Let me give you a rather interesting KNOWN fact about Latino culture/heritage in medicine, labor and deliver.gyn issues:

When a Latino woman comes into the hospital to deliver a baby, she brings at LEAST SIX people, usually TWELVE or more. That is NOT just _normal_ to Latinos: this is their way of showing LOVE and SUPPORT. 

EXPERIENCING LIFE AS a COHESIVE GROUP of relatives. NORMAL for them, but for say, ME or anyone else, who is about as Swedish/Danish/German/English/Russian (Caucasian) as they come...well, ONE person in Labor and Delivery room seems a crowd! 

SO - this is now a WHOLE NEW BALL GAME in which I am going to discuss your issues!

IF your wife, too, is Latino YES she should move now, as soon as possible and get herself a new job BEFORE she goes, and YOU should also have a job before you go! And YES, the small place with the little frig is FINE, as you have no kids and it is temporary and she should bless your Cuban sister's feet for offering and accept with dignity (that is what a good _Cuban_ sister in law would DO! It is the CULTURE and is considered "proper" for a WIFE to do this to the SISTER of her husband)

Now, if your WIFE is NOT Latino, but Caucasian female, she is going to have to get some UNDERSTANDING that when you MARRY a Latino, you MARRY a culture and whole slew of people; that by YOU actually coming up to Maryland and STAYING 10 years is INDEED a HUGE sign of LOVE and commitment from YOU, as YOU, as a Cuban did a HUGE thing and left your (huge) Latino based family for HER! You must be hugely fantastic in the romantic eyes of your female family members!

However, can I rightly assume you came to HER ASSUMING she would eventually return to florida with you, her husband...in the back of your mind, you just kind of thought that was the way it would go? If I am correct, that is because in YOUR Cuban culture upbringing, it is what happens, women are strongly encouraged to follow and support hubby, and be lead by hubby.

What your wife needs to understand is that by HER not being willing to go it IS in fact, (in YOUR culture) a sign she does not love you as much as you love her....because in Latin culture one KNOWS how important FAMILY is to them, so they READILY and EASILY see why you "need" what you need. It is in you HEART to be family centered - extended family centered.

Am I CORRECT so far??


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## Terran007 (Jun 14, 2009)

To a T. 

I suppose with the exception that I don't necessarily care for all the ridiculocity(tm) that us Cubans have in the sense that I am a bit more Americanized, and I am more private. So I definitely need our "us" time. I'm thinking that she probably believes that if we move, we will have a Cuban party 24/7. Hell, *I* can't even handle that! Nor do I want to! I would be happy to see them maybe once every month, and my parents twice a month.

But yes, I'm glad you have an understanding of the cultural differences. If you have more to say, I am eager to hear it!


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## Sandy55 (Jun 3, 2009)

Terran007 said:


> To a T.
> 
> I suppose with the exception that I don't necessarily care for all the ridiculocity(tm) that us Cubans have in the sense that I am a bit more Americanized, and I am more private. So I definitely need our "us" time. I'm thinking that she probably believes that if we move, we will have a Cuban party 24/7. Hell, *I* can't even handle that! Nor do I want to! I would be happy to see them maybe once every month, and my parents twice a month.
> 
> But yes, I'm glad you have an understanding of the cultural differences. If you have more to say, I am eager to hear it!


AH! SCORE one for the HOME team!  Although you are likely highly a tune to N.A. culture you have Cuban roots!

Your spouse needs culture lessons. If she refuses to be versed I am afraid you need to then decide if you can deal with the consequences of that.

Although I have taken college level courses in Culture and Diversity as a nurse, my daughter in law is _Colombian_!

SHE goes to Colombia every chance she can to see her dear family on the equator! When she came into our N.A. culture, she'd never been outside Colombia. OMG. We would have a birthday "party", what we call "party" (a cake, ice cream after dinner, no one but those who live in our home) and she would dress to the nines, makeup, ready for "the party". Well, when we told her this was "the party" she burst into tears, as she was expecting a "Colombian LATINO" birthday party: EVERYONE and their BROTHER shows up and stays all weekend to celebrate a birthday! 

Poor girl. Another cultural "difference" was her tendency to send all of her and my son's money HOME to help support her family! OMG. My son had a cow, as did we, as WE are helping her and ds, as ds doesn't even make ENOUGH money for him and daughter in law, let ALONE half of the population of Colombia: her family!!! 

SO, what you have here is a cultural difference. Your wife is likely seeing this as you being unreasonable and selfish, etc. She needs to be _*educated*_ about the fact that the Latino heart is tied to FAMILY, EXTENDED family, it aches when separated.

Hey, she married a Latino, ignorance is no excuse in this case, IMO, SHE needs to now, regroup, with her new information and ADJUST. Tell her there are advantages to Latin lovers.... 

See if you two can compromise, as I see your taking the step of 10 years as very, very good and as you say, it is her turn to bend for you...SHE needs to consider your culture.

Boy, is SHE in for a _surprise_ if you two have babies, huh?


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## Sandy55 (Jun 3, 2009)

I would like to suggest a book on Cuban or Latin culture and customs to start with...but I don't know of one. Look it up and see if you can find a basic culture book and introduce her to "your" culture as a beginning point....


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