# Normal for a 5.5yr old to have meltdowns?



## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

My son still has temper tantrums/meltdowns. I'm starting to get concerned as my daughter who is 7yrs old is of a very even temperament.

For example, this afternoon he asked for honeyed nuts, which we occasionally get as a treat, which I told him we don't have any, I'm not going out to buy any right now but if he liked he could take his money when we went shopping on Saturday and get something he liked. Meltdown. Screaming and wailing commenced, telling me I'm a horrible Mum etc. This is happening about once a week. I'm tired and sick of it.

I feel like it might be because he's tired by the end of a school day, and he's always had temper tantrums, but I thought he'd be done with them by now.


----------



## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

My little boy was like that until about the age of 4. I'd pick him up from nursery school, he'd be really nice and calm, then as soon as we got home he'd fling himself the floor, kick his feet, yell, cry and say "why did I have to take him to school in the first place..why did I leave him there, why, why, waaaahhh!". 

As he got older he'd have occasional tantrums like the one you're describing, but less and less over time. Now that he's a teen, it's completely over. He's a really physical kid, always doing sports, etc. so this may have helped neutralize his tendency towards impulsive behavior.

I would say the tantrums should decrease with age, not increase.


----------



## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

breeze, what do you do when he has a tantrum?


----------



## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

He maybe using it to get what he wants, he may have trouble expressing his feelings, or you may have some behavior problems.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Everyone has a different temperament. Some people are naturally easy going and some people are not. Your son is not easy going. That's okay. He has standards and expectations and when things don't meet his expectations he...is a child who hasn't learned how to cope with that crashing disappointment. Your job as parent is to teach him how to cope.

1. During a meltdown, behave in a way that doesn't encourage more meltdowns.
2. When the meltdown is over, talk cam may to discuss ways of expressing his disappointment that are more acceptable.
3. Don't belittle or put him down for feeling that crashing disappointment.


----------



## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

I think meltdowns like that should have consequences, like taking away some sort of privilege. 

You don't have to be overly harsh, but the point is to send a message that meltdowns are unacceptable.


----------



## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Completely normal

4 kids here

Terrible twos can last 5 years....for some it can last 8....and others, until 3.

Best advice I can give you is, TREAT YOUR SON AS AN ACTOR. He is simply putting on an act to get what he wants.

Ignore him, if it gets out of control, grab him and tell him that his act is unacceptable and you will have to ground him or put him in the corner (if it continues, stand by your words).

Rinse and repeat.......



Theseus said:


> I think meltdowns like that should have consequences, like taking away some sort of privilege.
> 
> You don't have to be overly harsh, but the point is to send a message that meltdowns are unacceptable.


Yep

When you guy your son stuff, use it as a tool. More they like it, more it will hurt when you take it away from them.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Theseus said:


> I think meltdowns like that should have consequences, like taking away some sort of privilege.
> 
> You don't have to be overly harsh, but the point is to send a message that meltdowns are unacceptable.


I'm sorry but I disagree. Unless you are 100% certain his meltdown was pure manipulation.

Not all kids have a mature enough limbic system to modulate their frustrations. They have to be taught how to do it. Punishment for something they can't yet control is too punitive. Reward for attempt to learn to control will work faster and with less repercussions.


----------



## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> I'm sorry but I disagree. Unless you are 100% certain his meltdown was pure manipulation.
> 
> Not all kids have a mature enough limbic system to modulate their frustrations. They have to be taught how to do it.


Rewards or punishments is one way to teach him how to do it. Note I said it shouldn't be harsh, but just enough to send a message. Spank, take away privelege, or whatever. 



> _Punishment for something they can't yet control is too punitive._


A child at 5.5 years old should be able control meltdowns, unless he has some sort of mental problem like autism. Sure he will have a temper sometimes, and get angry, but screaming fits are not normal. He's not two years old. 



> _Reward for attempt to learn to control will work faster and with less repercussions_.


Rewards work too, but in this case, how do you reward a child for *not* having a meltdown?


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Theseus said:


> Rewards or punishments is one way to teach him how to do it. Note I said it shouldn't be harsh, but just enough to send a message. Spank, take away privelege, or whatever.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes a child that age should be able to control melt downs. But some children have slower to mature emotional regulation and punishing that child only hurts their maturation more.

People always assume the screaming child in the toy store is a monster brat. While some are, not all of them are.

Ignore the meltdowns that do occur, redirect where he can have meltdowns. A parent usually knows what is going to set their child off so when the child doesn't over react the parent can praise the child for dealing with frustration in a mature way.

When my girls were little, I had a whining chair set up in a boring corner away from everything that was happening. If they started to whine I very gently told them they could whine all they wanted to as long as they were sitting in the whining chair but if they wanted to stay in the kitchen, they had to speak nicely. My middle daughter actually put herself in the whining chair to cry it out one time. 

Whining is very different from a melt down, screaming, flailing, kicking... Depending on where you are, the best thing to do is stop, be silent, and wait for the emotional vomiting to pass. 

Sometimes the child is over tired and simply can process any more emotion. Depending on their level of physical flailing, simply holding them will calm them. 

Other times they are far too frustrated to make sense of all the emotions flying around them and that when it's best to just sit down next to them and silently wait.

Teach the child to take 5 deep breaths, count to ten and then take 5 more. I coached a team of little ones and one of the kids was like this. Sure enough he started to melt down and I remembered his mom telling me about the deep breathing they were working on. I called out to him, he looked at me with this wild unfocused gaze and I yelled "deep breaths M... " He took the deep breaths and the melt down evaporated. It was amazing!


----------



## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

I thought about this thread today, I had an employee throw a tantrum over our budget freeze. I guess some people don't grow out of having meltdowns. May your son be one of the kids that does!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sparkyjim (Sep 22, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> I'm sorry but I disagree. Unless you are 100% certain his meltdown was pure manipulation.
> 
> Not all kids have a mature enough limbic system to modulate their frustrations. They have to be taught how to do it. Punishment for something they can't yet control is too punitive. Reward for attempt to learn to control will work faster and with less repercussions.


true... I think so often that we view our kids as just little adults, when in fact their brains and emotions are not developed enough.

I read a study recently where they talked about how teenagers impulse control was deficient because that part of their brain had not matured yet. It is the reason why teenagers make such bad choices, and we look at them and we ask "what were you thinking?"

Well, in actuality they weren't thinking anything. That part of the brain hadn't matured enough to make a good decision yet.

It helps to understand this. That way you can have that discussion with your teenager when you are advising them to be sensible and they are saying "I know, Mom..." Because you KNOW they don't know.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

sparkyjim said:


> true... I think so often that we view our kids as just little adults, when in fact their brains and emotions are not developed enough.
> 
> I read a study recently where they talked about how teenagers impulse control was deficient because that part of their brain had not matured yet. It is the reason why teenagers make such bad choices, and we look at them and we ask "what were you thinking?"
> 
> ...


Exactly!

The teenaged brain...can't read facial expressions, still doesn't understand the finality of death, still has remnants of magical thinking, and when it comes to complex ethical issues and dilemmas the teen aged brain can't think beyond black and white, but white becomes black depending on the situation.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

mablenc said:


> I thought about this thread today, I had an employee throw a tantrum over our budget freeze. I guess some people don't grow out of having meltdowns. May your son be one of the kids that does!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Which parenting skill did you employ, time out room, cuddle time, or patiently waiting until they've calmed down?


----------



## bkaydezz (Jul 9, 2012)

breeze said:


> My son still has temper tantrums/meltdowns. I'm starting to get concerned as my daughter who is 7yrs old is of a very even temperament.
> 
> For example, this afternoon he asked for honeyed nuts, which we occasionally get as a treat, which I told him we don't have any, I'm not going out to buy any right now but if he liked he could take his money when we went shopping on Saturday and get something he liked. Meltdown. Screaming and wailing commenced, telling me I'm a horrible Mum etc. This is happening about once a week. I'm tired and sick of it.
> 
> I feel like it might be because he's tired by the end of a school day, and he's always had temper tantrums, but I thought he'd be done with them by now.


Is mental illness common in your family?


----------



## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Empathizing with him while showing him your own predicament might help.

Instead of making it entirely his problem, i.e. with running out of his favorite cereal, say something like, yikes, I didn't realize we were out. Let's put it on the shopping list so we don't forget it Saturday.

If he says he wants it right away, show him your calendar and explain why you cannot go shopping until Saturday. Then suggest looking in the cupboards and fridge together so he can find something he'd like instead.

If he's still having a tantrum, just tell him you understand. He can scream and yell all he likes, let it out, you get angry too sometimes when you can't have what you want (give an example.)

Move on with your routine if he doesn't respond to any of above. But tell him if he decides he wants to take you up on any of it, to let you know. Only listen when he's intelligible.

btdt.

My daughter has allergies, btw, once we cleaned up her diet (together) she has far fewer tantrums. Also, even though we always thought of her as highly social, turns out she needs significant "me time" in her day. 

I have a friend whose son will have tantrums even in front of his friends (i.e. us, me and my kids) and he's 11 or so. Very high activity. When he's just with me and my kids, no tantrums. I think he has HIGH CONNECTIVITY needs, very touchy feely. When not in contact with someone or something (verbally or physically) he just basically freaks out. Of course, our sanitized relationship world here in the US for school kids is not set up to be touchy feely at all. First thing kids are told in school is to keep their hands off each other! No tussling, no fake wrestling, no hugging, no sitting close together, no sharing food, stay on your own mat at nap time, don't even touch your neighbor with your foot! For touchy feely kids it's like being put in isolation for a month, maybe more.


----------



## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Thanks all for your responses. To answer some questions, I have tried a few different things over the years. Ignoring it, time out (which has to be physically enforced with him), privileges taken away as punishment, trying to be understanding and trying to work out compromises and things like that. All the stuff I've been told 'works'. One day something will work to stop it before it gets bad and the next time it won't. Some days it feels like he's determined to be angry, about anything. The example I gave, that was his second go at getting angry about something, the first being derailed. Feels like he was trying to find a reason, any reason, to be angry, like it's built up inside and needs an outlet.

As for any diagnosed mental illness in the family, no, none that I know of on my side, but my MIL is a raving lunatic imo.

Yesterday I was so worn down over it I started to wonder if he had some sort of mental illness though. On reflection today I know it's probably due to my own anger issues. He has pushed me to points of anger I never thought possible. I saw my father with anger issues all my life and thought I was nothing like him, then I had a child who would have so much anger bubbling out of him that it felt like the air was vibrating around him and I'd start to feel it too. I generally have to leave him at certain points when he's been going for so long that I can no longer stand to be near him. If I stay, I end up yelling at him. I try for ages to be patient and understanding, but when it doesn't work, I'm lost. If I ever get to that point I apologise afterward and tell him I shouldn't have yelled at him, that I love him no matter what.

I've seen the reaction my father has to my son's tantrums and I was horrified. He didn't touch him but he was scary as hell. I was shocked to be honest, and it left me wondering how I would've reacted to that as a little girl myself. I quickly removed my boy from that situation and literally had to force my father to hug my son later when he came to say good night.

Probably didn't help that I think I may have suffered postnatal depression after he came along, then his terrible 'ones' erupted and I'm wondering how we made it through all that alive now.

He's a very touchy child. He loves his cuddles. I do feel like he's started to act out more now that he's at school. It may be a combination of fiery temperament, lack of enough physical touch, tiredness etc. Before moving and starting school I think I now remember I'd worked out a way to avoid these meltdowns. Lots of cuddles upon waking, a nap, a daily schedule, that sort of stuff. 

Food may also be contributing as we don't eat as well as we were since moving, and now that I'm working 5 days/week. Where I was making salad wraps and stuff for their lunches before, now it's a rushed sandwich to put in their lunch boxes. I hate it that we've lost our healthy momentum.

Some days it's all so overwhelming.


----------



## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

Once a week doesn't seem so bad to me. He's still very young.

Does he have them at school? If he can keep it together there, that's a good sign. It means he might tend to let go and release it all on to you as you're safe for him. 

There are some good books around, The Explosive Child is one. There are also workbook types for children to work through and practice dealing with anger/worry etc constructively. He might be a bit young for that though.


----------



## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

breeze said:


> I've seen the reaction my father has to my son's tantrums and I was horrified. He didn't touch him but he was scary as hell. I was shocked to be honest, and it left me wondering how I would've reacted to that as a little girl myself. I quickly removed my boy from that situation and literally had to force my father to hug my son later when he came to say good night.



If your father didn't touch him, then what was so scary about his reaction?

And why did you force them to hug each other? What is the point of that?


----------



## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Perhaps if you realize you are about to give him news he won't take well (that you can't do something or don't have it) since he's a cuddler, could you kneel down or pick him up and hold him and tell him in a gentle tone? Maybe that plus immediate distraction like "but we have goldfish!! let's get those!" could work?

I don't think he's got a mental illness - usually those don't show up until the teen years. That is still pretty young to cope with disappointment. I would examine diet and make sure he gets enough sleep - no doubt those can affect the mood he starts with - then add a disappointment and it's all over.

But admitting you've been surprised by your own temper, have you thought about seeing a family counselor and telling them about your temper and your son's and learn ways to cope and share/direct your son in the same techniques like the breathing mentioned? It would help both of you.


----------



## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Yeah, it's probably not all that bad, but when you're down it can feel like everything is worse than it really is. He doesn't do it at school. People frequently tell me how wonderful my kids are, so he's keeping it all for me I think, lol. I do know he had a big sook at kindy last year but I don't believe he got angry/violent, so that tells me he's aware that it's socially unacceptable.

As for my father, well, you'd have to be there. He didn't scare me but a man extremely angry at a small child, regardless of whether he physically touches the child or not, is scary for the child. It's 'old brain' stuff, it's natural for the child to feel like their life is threatened. You can tell by the child's body language, the freeze, the crying becoming 'real' rather than the fake wailing, looked a bit like shock. I don't think many people realise the impact a visible display of anger can have on a child, which is why I so hate getting angry in front of them.

As for my own issues, I've been working on them over the years; I did start working on breathing exercises with him but didn't consistently do it. I think I've gotten into a habit of retreating in order to avoid my own meltdown. A bit like saying to him, 'deal with your own anger, I can only deal with mine'. When our daughter was little we'd count with her when she was feeling overwhelmed and she'd calm down, but it didn't work so well with our son. He just yells, "I DON'T WANT TO COUNT!", lol. I've talked to Dh about finding some sort of anger management program for me but couldn't find one where I was, there might be more available where we live now. I've only ever been to a counsellor twice, and both times I'd hit rock bottom so to speak. I feel embarrassed talking to people about my problems. Even here where no one knows me I find it hard.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

My youngest is 5.5, and still has meltdowns. I just hold him and cuddle until he is done. Or if he doesn't want that, I try to empathize, as HNU mentioned. Active listening works great. Just anything calming, you know?

They grow out of them. I look at my dd19 now, and remember how she was as at times as a preschooler. I feel silly for ever having worried about anything. 

As far as your own anger/impatience, have you tried counting? When my oldest was about five, I remember starting to count so that I would not get so impatient/frustrated/angry. It distracted me, you know?

Please don't feel worried about admitting your problems. We all have them. 

If people are critical, realize it probably has nothing to do with you. We actually learn the most, I think, when people are just open and honest with us.


----------



## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

:iagree:

If he doesn't want to count, what about singing the ABCs, recite a nursery rhyme or march in a circle? LOL It can be anything familiar and/or repetitive that buys him some cool-down time. Maybe when you're both mad, play ring around the rosie. You BOTH get a cool-down!

Ask him what HE would like to do when he gets angry.  Maybe being involved in figuring out how to handle it will give him more power and make him feel more in control. 

It can be hit or miss and from what I've heard, every kid is different and most parents of two or more that I know say their kids were like night and day.  I only have one. So his displaying anger at this age and your first child not, isn't a sign of developmental issues necessarily.

I've also heard that, when kids yell we should speak quietly because in order for them to hear us they have to get quiet, too. You could try speaking to him softly when he's melting down in addition to all of this.

Obviously he can't be rewarded for bad behavior but above all, he needs to know that feeling angry is OK - it's how we display it that should be controlled so empathizing for validation is important. You're on the right track.

ETA - I know it's hard when you can barely control your own emotions, but remember - how you handle YOUR emotions is setting an example for him so when you retreat or blow up, he's learning those behaviors. Retreating to cool down is OK but be sure you don't WITHDRAW. Emotions must be dealt with, not squelched. This is coping, not ignoring we're talking about here.


----------



## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

I honestly don't remember the "terrible twos" being all that terrible for our first son. He had a few tantrums but I usually reacted by making sure he was safe and walking into another room. Not having an audience helped curb the tantrums, he got tired of getting up off the floor and following me around the house to cry and flail. 

I would also say, "I'm sorry, I want to talk to you but I can't understand you when you speak in that tone of voice." whenever he whined and literally play deaf while he used a whiny voice but gave instant attention when he spoke normally to me so the whining ended quickly.

Around 4.5 though, it's like the Devil got into him lol. He had a nasty phase. He did things like spit on the floor, threatened to poke his dad in the eye and poked him in the eye, peed on his mattress -- from a standing position as if using the toilet so it was on purpose, running around the house at bedtime and into the furnace room and tantrums. It was hell lol. 

We tried spanking but quickly gave it up. He would turn around and say, "That didn't hurt!" The only thing that worked was time-out. Though time-out wasn't easy at first and we'd have to return him to the same spot numerous times before he would stay there. He eventually got it. He may be stubborn but he's our kid and we're better at it.

As others have mentioned, making sure they're fed and had enough sleep can help prevent tantrums. Even now our oldest can get emotional if he's hungry or overtired. 

My second son is now approaching the terrible twos and I have a feeling we're in for a wilder ride the second time around - the personalities are just different. He just started with the tantrums, the screaming and the hitting. Goody! The first was more easy going, even with his bratty period when he was four than my youngest seems to be. Looking at my nephews, the same goes for them, my younger nephew was still tantruming at 5-6 but the older one grew out of it before then. I think personality has a lot to do with it.

I think your son is normal. That being said, I know it isn't easy.


----------



## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Thanks all 

I'll try the suggestions made. I feel like I've been through a cycle, I try things, it gets better, then we go through a bad patch and I feel like I'm floundering again. Then I need to go through a period of thinking things through and regaining focus. Then things start to improve again. This year has been a strain on all of us I think, but we're slowly getting our feet under us again.


----------

