# Let’s talk about standards



## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

I hear all the time, have standards, don’t lower your standards. Having standards is a reflection of self worth. If you don’t have any standards one would say negative things like your easy, desperate, have low self esteem/worth. If your standards are too high then people would say your unrealistic, high maintenance, impossible expectations, and judgmental. 

So what are normal standards when dating? Has anyone ever dated someone with too low or too high of standards and what did that look like?


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Girl_power said:


> Has anyone ever dated someone with too low or too high of standards and what did that look like?


I had a first date with a guy I met through OLD years ago. Halfway through the date, I realized he was a bit of a sleaze. Fortunately, I always drove myself to a first date just in case things started going bad. I excused myself to go to the ladies' room, kept walking, got in my car, and drove home. 

I'm not sure I know what constitutes standards that are "too high." To my way of thinking, standards are highly subjective. I live by my own standards and nobody else's. What someone thinks is unacceptable may be perfectly fine for someone else.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

I think "normal" standards would fall under the umbrella of character attributes, e.g. not abusive, kind, etc. These are typically universally understood as must have attributes. The debate ensues when you get into the more superficial standards like appearance, work, etc. 

Personally, I don't have a problem with people who have high standards as long as they themselves can meet them. However I lose all respect for those who can't.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Whatever our standards are, we need to date and marry someone who shares them or it will never work.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> Whatever our standards are, we need to date and marry someone who shares them or it will never work.


I would add to that the importance of actually knowing what those standards are, pointing out that narratives are sometimes not accurate. @Lila pointed out the importance of someone meeting their own standards. I will suggest, again, how important it is to make sure there's transparency and you're not getting fooled by a false narrative that could take years to expose itself.


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## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

Girl_power said:


> I hear all the time, have standards, don’t lower your standards. Having standards is a reflection of self worth. If you don’t have any standards one would say negative things like your easy, desperate, have low self esteem/worth. If your standards are too high then people would say your unrealistic, high maintenance, impossible expectations, and judgmental.
> 
> So what are normal standards when dating? Has anyone ever dated someone with too low or too high of standards and what did that look like?


So the "normal standards" calculus can get fairly complex. What someone brings to a relationship can cover lots of different attributes (attractiveness, economic resources / income, charm / personality, work ethic, etc) and how they are weighted tends to be different between people and between genders (IE economic contribution tends to be weighted more heavily for men while appearance tends to be weighted more for women). Ideally, you would be matched up with someone that has the same "desirability score" so no one gets resentful or lacks respect for their SO.

Some people don't seem to evaluate themselves realistically. I've seen lots of complaints on forums from women saying that they are being approached by men that aren't compatible or aren't realistic dates. Whether the men or women are wrong in their assessment, I don't know.

My ex at the beginning of the relationship would sometimes comment about how she didn't feel that she measured up or wasn't "good enough" to date me. At the end of the relationship I wasn't good enough for her. I think I was pretty steady and consistent throughout so at some point she was unrealistic.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Hiner112 said:


> My ex at the beginning of the relationship would sometimes comment about how she didn't feel that she measured up or wasn't "good enough" to date me. At the end of the relationship I wasn't good enough for her. I think I was pretty steady and consistent throughout so at some point she was unrealistic.


The "good enough" thing- is that simply unmet expectations? And is it reasonable to think that expectations should remain static? I think the key is how we react to changing expectations, which are bound to happen during a marriage. What was OK when you're young & stupid & have no future, may not be so a couple decades later.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

Girl_power said:


> I hear all the time, have standards, don’t lower your standards. Having standards is a reflection of self worth. If you don’t have any standards one would say negative things like your easy, desperate, have low self esteem/worth. If your standards are too high then people would say your unrealistic, high maintenance, impossible expectations, and judgmental.
> 
> So what are normal standards when dating? Has anyone ever dated someone with too low or too high of standards and what did that look like?


*Don't you just simply mean "what do you look for in a partner when dating?"*

The premises behind this question need to be challenged.

_>>>Having standards is a reflection of self worth._
I guess sort of like what you drive is a reflection of your financial worth?

>>>_Has anyone ever dated someone with too low or too high of standards and what did that look like?_
Not sure how anyone can really answer this. What does "too low" or "too high" mean? Too low or high to you or to other people? If someone you're dating breaks up with you, do you file that under "too high standards"? When is it about "standards" vs simply preferences or chemistry? If you're dating someone that you think has "too low" standards, does that mean that you think they should be dating someone "better" than you? Or are we supposed to conclude that someone has "too low" standards if they break up with you for someone who is "not as pretty" as you? Or has less money? Or whatever? How are you even supposed to know what your dating partner's "standards" really are? 

So if you remove all the noise about what other people will think or worrying about how who you date will reflect on you or your self worth, etc, aren't you really just asking:

*"What do you look for in a partner when dating?"* How is your question any different from this?

To state it explicitly in case my point is too subtle, using the term "standard" suggests that there is a clearly defined, linear "quality" scale applied to people. I once worked in a supermarket and got to know the USDA standards for meat (Prime, Choice, Select, Standard, etc). The standard is based on clearly defined criteria. Do you mean this kind of thing being applied to people? That's the assumption/premise that sits behind your question. This is problematic and can be even be considered offensive. Sorry but the first thing that comes to mind regarding trying to apply defined quality standards to people in order to determine their worth on an objective scale is the slave trade.

Therefore, instead of trying to answer this question, I reject the premises and assumptions that sit behind it.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Hiner112 said:


> Some people don't seem to evaluate themselves realistically. I've seen lots of complaints on forums from women saying that they are being approached by men that aren't compatible or aren't realistic dates. Whether the men or women are wrong in their assessment, I don't know.


This is an interesting topic in and of itself. There have been lots of studies showing that men evaluate themselves less realistically than women. Everything from performance self evaluations to physical appearance has been studied and by far, men rate themselves much higher than women rate themselves. 

When it comes to physical appearance, men seem to be wearing permanent rose colored glasses. The most recent study https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...201507/when-men-arent-good-looking-they-think showed men not only find themselves more attractive than they actually are but they find others (men and women) more attractive too.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Lila said:


> This is an interesting topic in and of itself. There have been lots of studies showing that men evaluate themselves less realistically than women. Everything from performance self evaluations to physical appearance has been studied and by far, men rate themselves much higher than women rate themselves.
> 
> When it comes to physical appearance, men seem to be wearing permanent rose colored glasses. The most recent study https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...201507/when-men-arent-good-looking-they-think showed men not only find themselves more attractive than they actually are but they find others (men and women) more attractive too.


I actually saw an example of this with two people on a show that I can't recall.

The two were meeting off a dating sight and both were overweight, him moreso than her, and he thought she was too heavy for him.

I'm a good judge of male attractiveness and he wasn't that hot even if he had lost weight while the lady in question was definitely a spicier package.

Regardless, he was convinced that he was out of her league. I sometimes wonder if a lot of disgruntled single men aren't like this one?

I'm not just picking on men either as one of Mrs. Conan's sisters had a list of attributes she wanted in a man that looked a lot like me only taller and richer while she was terribly overweight and out of shape and always made terrible life choices. She overlooked a gentleman that had an eye for her but he was a little older and short. He was a great overall package being in great shape and financially secure. He was very kind and mature in his life decisions.

She didn't give him a second glance and, many years later, is still single, even more obese and less healthy and in worse financial shape than before because she keeps making bad decisions.

I don't get people's motivations sometimes and I'm often reminded to be thankful for finding Mrs. C.:smile2:


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Girl_power said:


> I hear all the time, have standards, don’t lower your standards. Having standards is a reflection of self worth. If you don’t have any standards one would say negative things like your easy, desperate, have low self esteem/worth. If your standards are too high then people would say your unrealistic, high maintenance, impossible expectations, and judgmental.
> 
> So what are normal standards when dating? Has anyone ever dated someone with too low or too high of standards and what did that look like?


Without reading further, a thought came to mind. 'course I woke up thinking about sex, tmi I know, but that's what led me to this comment so early. 

Ever dated someone with too low standards? 

Yes, but on purpose. One of the very early "what can I get this girl to do" moments, before I acquired a little more maturity. 

As time went on, yes time to time, always kindly, considerate, but each with never a thought of an exclusive or long term relationship consideration. 

There are many kinds of "standards" it would be better to know which class or set of standards being asked about.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Now that I've read through. 

An additional concept to complement this inquiry; there may be better results when one looks for another with good character. Having that included descriptor connotes one that has a solid foundation that would be a good "teammate".


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

There aren't any "normal" standards... what's normal for you, it's not normal for me... when I met my future wife, she had very high standards in some aspects of life (not mine) and I had others (not hers)... so, we compromised, we married and had a very dysfunctional marriage... :laugh:


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> There aren't any "normal" standards... what's normal for you, it's not normal for me... when I met my future wife, she had very high standards in some aspects of life (not mine) and I had others (not hers)... so, we compromised, we married and had a very dysfunctional marriage... :laugh:


That's what I'm saying, in complete agreement. 

Standards, or high standards, can mean many different things to many different people.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> That's what I'm saying, in complete agreement.
> 
> Standards, or high standards, can mean many different things to many different people.



Sorry, only read the OP's post... not paying much attention is one of my lower standards...


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

JustTheWife said:


> *Don't you just simply mean "what do you look for in a partner when dating?"*
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You compared me saying standards reflect self worth with the car you drive reflecting financial worth. I disagree. Not everyone values a car, so they wouldn’t put a lot of money into it. But standards meaning... how you expect to be treated, does reflect self worth to a certain degree. Some people have little self worth they are willing to put up with abuse, and bad treatment. 

What I mean about too high and too low standards is needing to be treated a certain way before you can pass go. 

For example, I have a girlfriend that thinks men should treat a women they are interested in a certain way. So she needs the man to setup a date. Pay 100% the bill. Open doors, and walk her to her door etc. she is the type of women who would stand by the car door waiting for it to be opened for her. And walk back in the house if it wasn’t. 

Some women have no standards. They set up the first date, are willing to keep trying to set up dates even when the guy cancels, they don’t expect the man to pay the bill, they are the ones always reaching out, they are easy to have sex with even though you didn’t have to work that hard or even be that nice. Women they essentially chase men and are happy with scrapes of effort.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

What I mean by standards when it comes to dating is needing to be treated a certain way before the other person can pass go so to speak. Standard of how you need to be treated to be and stay in a relationship. There’s a popular quote... you teach people how to treat you.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

Girl_power said:


> You compared me saying standards reflect self worth with the car you drive reflecting financial worth. I disagree. Not everyone values a car, so they wouldn’t put a lot of money into it. But standards meaning... how you expect to be treated, does reflect self worth to a certain degree. Some people have little self worth they are willing to put up with abuse, and bad treatment.
> 
> What I mean about too high and too low standards is needing to be treated a certain way before you can pass go.
> 
> ...


The intent of my car analogy was to reflect that it's certainly not a good way to determine one's financial position. Just like "standards" are not a good way to make assumptions about someone's self worth. You're now talking about extremes of people getting treated poorly and abused which was not clear from your OP. But even staying in a relationship with someone who abuses you can be caused by a lot of different factors- not just self-worth issues (e.g. financial and other dependencies, fear for yourself and/or children, etc). If someone is getting physically abused in a relationship, then I don't think I would be worried about them having "low standards". 

However, dating someone who is less attractive, overweight, less successful, or who has had problems in the past is not necessarily a reflection on your self worth. Or dating someone who treats you like a queen and caters to your every need does not indicate high self worth or "high standards", nor does the opposite indicate low self worth or "low standards". Just like what you drive is not necessarily a reflection on your financial worth.

You're giving examples of women with "no standards" which I can't relate to at all. Some women don't like a lot of fuss. Many men who go over the top in treating their wives or girlfriends like princesses in public and when things are happy are the worst ones in private and when things are difficult. Unless someone is getting mistreated or abused which is obviously wrong, it's very hard to put general rules on behavior and demeanor in terms of a rigid set of "standards". 

I still don't understand why you are talking about "standards" instead of just preferences. It's not pedantic as "standards" is rigid and means hierarchy (low vs high) and needs to be defined otherwise it's meaningless. It also implies some kind of good and bad. High maintenance = "high standards"??? Woman paying the bill and calling the guy for a date = "low standards"??? According to what and whom? Acting desperate or not taking 'no' for an answer and continuing to pursue someone who says that they do not want you pursuing them is not a problem of "low standards". It's stalking or at least has the potential for stalking.

Sorry, i don't want to be argumentative but I don't really understand what you're trying to get to with this question.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> I actually saw an example of this with two people on a show that I can't recall.
> 
> The two were meeting off a dating sight and both were overweight, him moreso than her, and he thought she was too heavy for him.
> 
> ...


Was the girl interested in him? And was this an American show?



> I'm not just picking on men either as one of Mrs. Conan's sisters had a list of attributes she wanted in a man that looked a lot like me only taller and richer while she was terribly overweight and out of shape and always made terrible life choices. She overlooked a gentleman that had an eye for her but he was a little older and short. He was a great overall package being in great shape and financially secure. He was very kind and mature in his life decisions.
> 
> She didn't give him a second glance and, many years later, is still single, even more obese and less healthy and in worse financial shape than before because she keeps making bad decisions.
> 
> I don't get people's motivations sometimes and I'm often reminded to be thankful for finding Mrs. C.<a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_smile.png" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" ></a>


I don't understand people like this either. I have my own standards but they are attributes that I myself bring to the table. 

I had someone ask me yesterday if I would loosen up on this one particular standard if the guy was smokin' hot. My answer was simple, hotness is a depreciating commodity. Why would I give up an appreciating attribute for a depreciating one?


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

JustTheWife said:


> The intent of my car analogy was to reflect that it's certainly not a good way to determine one's financial position. Just like "standards" are not a good way to make assumptions about someone's self worth. You're now talking about extremes of people getting treated poorly and abused which was not clear from your OP. But even staying in a relationship with someone who abuses you can be caused by a lot of different factors- not just self-worth issues (e.g. financial and other dependencies, fear for yourself and/or children, etc). If someone is getting physically abused in a relationship, then I don't think I would be worried about them having "low standards".
> 
> However, dating someone who is less attractive, overweight, less successful, or who has had problems in the past is not necessarily a reflection on your self worth. Or dating someone who treats you like a queen and caters to your every need does not indicate high self worth or "high standards", nor does the opposite indicate low self worth or "low standards". Just like what you drive is not necessarily a reflection on your financial worth.
> 
> ...




Standard is what I am talking about. Not preference. There is a difference and I don’t think you understand the distinction. 

Do a quick google search with the differences of standards vs preferences. Preference has to do with an individual liking something and preferring something over another. I prefer men who are physically fit. I prefer men who have advance degrees. Standard has to do with quality. A base level of care/behavior. Some parents have a high standards for their kids. Some people have high standards that need to be there before anything can happen. A preference is preferring one thing over another and is not a need.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

Girl_power said:


> You compared me saying standards reflect self worth with the car you drive reflecting financial worth. I disagree. Not everyone values a car, so they wouldn’t put a lot of money into it. But standards meaning... how you expect to be treated, does reflect self worth to a certain degree. Some people have little self worth they are willing to put up with abuse, and bad treatment.
> 
> What I mean about too high and too low standards is needing to be treated a certain way before you can pass go.
> 
> ...



IMO, your girlfriend does not have standards. She has hoops that she expects men to jump through to earn her time/interest. The way I refer to women like this is that they are 'projects'. For me personally, I would be looking for a woman to be a 'partner' not a 'project'. 

This particular example does not fit the idea of 'high maintenance' either (as suggested by @JustTheWife). High maintenance is a reference into how easy she is to 'have fun with'. If it takes a lot of time, money and effort for her to be ready to go have some 'fun', then she is high maintenance. (FYI, every other man on here may describe these ideas differently than I just did)


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Men have standards too not just women.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

leftfield said:


> IMO, your girlfriend does not have standards. She has hoops that she expects men to jump through to earn her time/interest. The way I refer to women like this is that they are 'projects'. For me personally, I would be looking for a woman to be a 'partner' not a 'project'.
> 
> 
> 
> This particular example does not fit the idea of 'high maintenance' either (as suggested by @JustTheWife). High maintenance is a reference into how easy she is to 'have fun with'. If it takes a lot of time, money and effort for her to be ready to go have some 'fun', then she is high maintenance. (FYI, every other man on here may describe these ideas differently than I just did)




Standards or hoops weave out men who want us for one night vs someone who wants a long term relationship. It lets us know who is serious about us and who doesn’t really care.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

Girl_power said:


> Standards or hoops weave out men who want us for one night vs someone who wants a long term relationship. It lets us know who is serious about us and who doesn’t really care.


The original comment I had here was not helpful to anyone.

I will just say as one man who has only ever had one partner and who believes in long term relationships, your girlfriends 'standards' would repel me. And they would not help her with any man I have ever discussed such a topic with. (Admittedly, that is not an overly large number and all of the men were like me in believing in commitment and long term relationships. So men that are not looking for flings)


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Lila said:


> Was the girl interested in him? And was this an American show?


It was American if I remember correctly and she would have continued with more dates but was flabbergasted that he thought she was too heavy with him clearly being more overweight than her.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Girl_power said:


> Standard is what I am talking about. Not preference. There is a difference and I don’t think you understand the distinction.
> 
> Do a quick google search with the differences of standards vs preferences. Preference has to do with an individual liking something and preferring something over another. I prefer men who are physically fit. I prefer men who have advance degrees. Standard has to do with quality. A base level of care/behavior. Some parents have a high standards for their kids. Some people have high standards that need to be there before anything can happen. A preference is preferring one thing over another and is not a need.


I think a better way to explain standards is to use the word boundary instead. There are preferences and there are boundaries. Preferences are flexible. Boundaries typically are not.


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## terrycjr (Dec 18, 2019)

Having had a "attractive" partners, you learn what you want to live without more than what you want to live with. So if i ever get divorced, my list is simple.

No brain meds, i can deal with a lil crazy, i cant deal with crazy in a bottle
No smoking
No personality change when drunk
700+ credit score. You laugh, but if you've lived with a 400, the score if basically a snap shot of their all around life choices

and lastly, i just need to be attracted to them, not a 9 or 10, just attractive.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

Lila said:


> I think a better way to explain standards is to use the word boundary instead. There are preferences and there are boundaries. Preferences are flexible. Boundaries typically are not.


I agree. There two different distinctions here that are important and the OP (with respect) seems to be confusing them.

One distinction is between flexible "preferences" and inflexible "must haves" that an individual may hold.

The other distinction is between a universal quality standards scale and personal/individual preferences, needs, boundaries, etc.

My point was simply that there is no universally agreed quality scale for things like how much attention a partner should give (e.g. more attention = higher quality????). Short of agreeing that an abuser or someone criminally active is "low quality" (to put it mildly), I don't think we can rate the quality of people by things like what they look like, how much they weigh, how much attention they give to their partner, who pays for a date, how many times they call, etc. If an individual would rather date someone who gives them constant attention then that's a personal preference. If someone will not date someone who doesn't give them constant attention, then that's a personal need or "boundary". It has nothing to do with a universal quality standard - e.g. someone has low standards if they will date someone who is more distant or they have high standards if they only date someone who gives them constant attention. Frankly that makes so sense.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

I dunno.

Some men would say; they'd sleep with many, and only a few would filter into the possible ltr group. I myself, albeit before M of course, was one of these.

The only absolute was "not psycho" of which a couple sneak through at first, have to quit quickly. 

And only one would get through the final "wife" filter.

I was lucky, I happily married my match. Still happily married.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

terrycjr said:


> Having had a "attractive" partners, you learn what you want to live without more than what you want to live with. So if i ever get divorced, my list is simple.
> 
> No brain meds, i can deal with a lil crazy, i cant deal with crazy in a bottle
> No smoking
> ...


Per the OP's definition, I'm left scratching my head trying to determine if you have "high standards" or "low standards"???? :grin2:


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

I find it funny that people are not use to the word standard. I use it all the time. I read about it all the time, I hear about it al the time. Whether it be have higher/.lower standards, or a standard of living, or as a Christian person I try to hold myself to a higher standard.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

I hear what you're saying. 

Perhaps it's because as a standalone word, "standards" benefits greatly when it has a descriptive word prefacing it.

Moral standards?
Dress standards?
Good character standards?
Sexual?
Dating?
Vocabulary, English, speech?
Physical?
Work?
Credit worthiness?
Financial?

Now don't get me wrong, kindly I get what you're inferring as standards in general but it is kind of an open ended subject description. 

Great topic! 🙂🙂


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

Girl_power said:


> I find it funny that people are not use to the word standard. I use it all the time. I read about it all the time, I hear about it al the time. Whether it be have higher/.lower standards, or a standard of living, or as a Christian person I try to hold myself to a higher standard.


From my experience Christian standards are behavioral ideals one places on themselves. As an extension of living your life by a set of standard you want a spouse who helps you keep those standards. So Christian are encouraged to find a partner that has the same set of standards. 

If you are talking about self-help literature you will constantly here things like don't lower your standards, you might need to change your standards etc. The word standard in this field is usually referring to a persons wants.

Standard of living is a term usually used by governmental agencies or sociologists to describe a groups living conditions. I have never heard this term used in a personal conversation unless is was specifically referring to said groups.

Yes, I have heard the term a lot, just like you. In this particular thread I think you are using the term as the self-help literature would use it. Which leads to the type of comments that @JustTheWife has made. Are you talking about needs or preferences?


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

When I started dating I was a born again Christian, and it was what was always taught to me during youth group and bible study and even pastors on YouTube etc. and it’s basically that men should be a certain way and women should be a certain way. And women are to have certain standards which how they should be treated. Because we were all dating with the expectation of waiting till marriage to have sex, so we dated to get married not date for fun.
So it was always drilled in my head that if a man is truly interested in you he will treat you a certain way, and put in a lot of effort. It was also preached that women should give the man space and allow him to take the lead and be the man. 
So when I think of standards, I don’t think of looks or income. I think of a man treating me a certain way.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)




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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

Girl_power said:


> I find it funny that people are not use to the word standard. I use it all the time. I read about it all the time, I hear about it al the time. Whether it be have higher/.lower standards, or a standard of living, or as a Christian person I try to hold myself to a higher standard.


Hold on. We weren't born yesterday. Nobody said that people "are not [to use] the word standard". So giving examples like standard of living does not prove any point. You're trying to discredit us by arguing against a point that none of us made! We can't let that one by without calling it out. :laugh:

It should be obvious that Standard of Living is very different as it's based on a clearly defined scale with clear factors that people generally accept. Not necessarily 100% agreement but general acceptance of how it's computed and the factors going into the computation. Same with my example of USDA quality standards for meat. 

There is no such generally accepted quality scale or standards of quality for a boyfriend, girlfriend, or husband or wife. There simply is none. Short of obvious insidious things like abuse, people want or need different things from their partners. So short of extremes like abuse and neglect, I don't know how anyone can have "high standards" or "low standards". With respect, except for the obvious point of abuse being "low quality", your examples make no sense. Plenty of people want their space and don't want a partner giving them constant attention. Others need it. To each their own. Some people are more comfortable pursuing the person they want. Or paying for dates. There is no universally accepted pecking order of low and high quality in these things.

Simple. Not sure how else this can be explained.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

Girl_power said:


> When I started dating I was a born again Christian, and it was what was always taught to me during youth group and bible study and even pastors on YouTube etc. and it’s basically that men should be a certain way and women should be a certain way. And women are to have certain standards which how they should be treated. Because we were all dating with the expectation of waiting till marriage to have sex, so we dated to get married not date for fun.
> So it was always drilled in my head that if a man is truly interested in you he will treat you a certain way, and put in a lot of effort. It was also preached that women should give the man space and allow him to take the lead and be the man.
> So when I think of standards, I don’t think of looks or income. I think of a man treating me a certain way.


I'm a Christian too (a VERY strict conservative Christian upbringing and active church member). However, i recognize that certain things "drilled" into us are not valued by everyone in the world. I completely get what you're saying about how we were raised. Just because a man treats you in a different way than the "certain way" you wish (or require) him to treat you, it doesn't mean he's low quality (assuming he's not abusive, etc). It also doesn't mean that a woman has "low standards" if she dates a man who does not treat her in the "certain way" that you need to be treated.

Therefore, what YOU need and value in a man has no relationship to OTHER WOMEN having high standards or low standards.

I think the reason for the disconnect is now much clearer.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

You are indicating that you were raised in a conservative christian background (so was I, and I am still active in it), and that you were taught that 'chivalry' is what is required for dating. You were also taught that a woman must stand fast to this standard and expect her suitors to measure up to it. You were also taught to let the man lead.

What your posts have not made clear is whether this is what you want now or do you want something else?


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

JustTheWife said:


> I'm a Christian too (a VERY strict conservative Christian upbringing and active church member). However, i recognize that certain things "drilled" into us are not valued by everyone in the world. I completely get what you're saying about how we were raised. Just because a man treats you in a different way than the "certain way" you wish (or require) him to treat you, it doesn't mean he's low quality (assuming he's not abusive, etc). It also doesn't mean that a woman has "low standards" if she dates a man who does not treat her in the "certain way" that you need to be treated.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Your not understanding what I am saying. 

Everything is subjective. I am not saying that a man who doesn’t treat me the way I want to be treated is low quality. I am saying that we are not compatible. 
What high and low standards are to me is different than what they are to someone else. The point of this thread was to talk about standards and what they think low or high standards are to them. I thought it would be a interesting conversation to hear what people’s view on standards are. 

And I think that we can all say someone has low standards (based on our beliefs and judgements) not that it matters because that person isn’t us. The truth is some people DO have too high and too low standards. 

No duh what my standards are is different than others. That goes without saying. I thought it would be fun to talk about what OUR view of standards are. People come in here to get others peoples views and opinions because it’s fun and it makes us think. I am not judging IR pushing my standards on anyone and telling them to live according to my rules.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

Girl_power said:


>


These standards are what one places on themselves. It is up to you how to deal with people who do not meet them.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

leftfield said:


> You are indicating that you were raised in a conservative christian background (so was I, and I am still active in it), and that you were taught that 'chivalry' is what is required for dating. You were also taught that a woman must stand fast to this standard and expect her suitors to measure up to it. You were also taught to let the man lead.
> 
> What your posts have not made clear is whether this is what you want now or do you want something else?




I was always taught that having these traditional standards weave out men that aren’t really interested in me. But also dating in 2020, I think it rules out a lot of men who don’t want that traditional type of relationship. 

I do want to find a certain type of relationship. Dating now and in your 30s is a lot different than it was when I was in my early 20s. It just seems like there are less traditional single men, and I think that they aren’t use to dating a girl with these traditional standards/values. 

I guess I find my self evaluating everything in the New Years so I thought it would be a interesting topic. I didn’t mean to piss people off.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

Girl_power said:


> Your not understanding what I am saying.
> 
> Everything is subjective. I am not saying that a man who doesn’t treat me the way I want to be treated is low quality. I am saying that we are not compatible.
> What high and low standards are to me is different than what they are to someone else. The point of this thread was to talk about standards and what they think low or high standards are to them. I thought it would be a interesting conversation to hear what people’s view on standards are.
> ...



OK, since this is just for fun. When I was in my twenties this is what my standards were:
1. She must be able to be my best friend. Which includes have a lot of common interests and values, she must respect me and my stuff (if she borrows my kayak equipment she needs to take care of it like it was her own), she does not waste my time or money, she enjoys spending time with me over other things, she does not play relationship games, she support me and is on my side. Basically, she is a good 'best friend'.

2. We should have similar life goals (we both want children).

3. I need to find her attractive.

If I ever end up single again in this modern world, I would add:
4. She limits her time on social media.

5. We are sexually compatible.

I am a pretty boring person, so my list is not to exciting.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

Girl_power said:


> I was always taught that having these traditional standards weave out men that aren’t really interested in me. But also dating in 2020, I think it rules out a lot of men who don’t want that traditional type of relationship.
> 
> I do want to find a certain type of relationship. Dating now and in your 30s is a lot different than it was when I was in my early 20s. It just seems like there are less traditional single men, and I think that they aren’t use to dating a girl with these traditional standards/values.
> 
> I guess I find my self evaluating everything in the New Years so I thought it would be a interesting topic. I didn’t mean to piss people off.


I was raised with traditional standards and to treat women like this. Even when I was young and dating (20+ years ago) I voluntarily tossed these dating ideas out the window, because I knew that I needed to find the right person for me and these traditions did nothing to help that process. Not one man I spoke to about dating back then every talked up these traditions. As men we never saw them as more than having common goals (these were Christian men raised on these traditions). I am not surprised that all these years later that men have essentially abandoned them. Maybe you really like these traditions and they work for you then again maybe you should rethink them.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

Girl_power said:


> Your not understanding what I am saying.
> 
> Everything is subjective. I am not saying that a man who doesn’t treat me the way I want to be treated is low quality. I am saying that we are not compatible.
> What high and low standards are to me is different than what they are to someone else. The point of this thread was to talk about standards and what they think low or high standards are to them. I thought it would be a interesting conversation to hear what people’s view on standards are.
> ...


You'll have to forgive us for misunderstanding but you did say:

*Some women have no standards. They set up the first date, are willing to keep trying to set up dates even when the guy cancels, they don’t expect the man to pay the bill, they are the ones always reaching out, they are easy to have sex with even though you didn’t have to work that hard or even be that nice. Women they essentially chase men and are happy with scrapes of effort.*

What if a woman is comfortable being the pursuer? What if she's relaxed about a man cancelling a date? What if she doesn't have a problem paying the bill or dare I say she wants to pay? What if she doesn't have an issue having casual sex?

This may not be how everyone sees things but you most certainly did try to attribute a universal way that things should be. And you attributed the very negative judgment that she has "no standards" just because she does not align to what you believe? Why would she have "no standards" if that's how she sees dating and she's happy with a man who fits well with her view of dating and relationships?


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Girl_power said:


> . The point of this thread was to talk about standards and what they think low or high standards are to them. I thought it would be a interesting conversation to hear what people’s view on standards are.
> 
> I thought it would be fun to talk about what OUR view of standards are. People come in here to get others peoples views and opinions because it’s fun and it makes us think.


Okay so one of my standards is that I will not have sex with a man unless we've established exclusivity and definitely not before I have gotten to know him and feel safe with him. 

My other standard is that I expect chivalry from any man I'm dating and I'm very up front about that. I haven't had any issues finding this. Maybe it's because I tell them that doing all of those nice chivalrous things turns me on. Lol.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

JustTheWife said:


> You'll have to forgive us for misunderstanding but you did say:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You’ll have to forgive us? You mean you, since your the only one with the problem. 

And that hypothetical person that I said has no standards, i am saying she has no standards if she does a whole host of things not just one thing. 

You seem to be taking this more personal then I meant it to be.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Lila said:


> Okay so one of my standards is that I will not have sex with a man unless we've established exclusivity and definitely not before I have gotten to know him and feel safe with him.
> 
> My other standard is that I expect chivalry from any man I'm dating and I'm very up front about that. I haven't had any issues finding this. Maybe it's because I tell them that doing all of those nice chivalrous things turns me on. Lol.




I agree with this. What chivalry things do you want exactly? 
For me it’s opening doors, offering their coat if I look cold, paying for dates (even though later on I often pay).


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Girl_power said:


> I agree with this. What chivalry things do you want exactly?
> For me it’s opening doors, offering their coat if I look cold, paying for dates (even though later on I often pay).


I expect all these things. And honestly, if we are talking about high standards and low standards, expecting a man to open doors for me and other basic chivalry is a really low threshold. It really isn't asking for much, but some men seem to think it's like asking for the moon.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

FeministInPink said:


> I expect all these things. And honestly, if we are talking about high standards and low standards, expecting a man to open doors for me and other basic chivalry is a really low threshold. It really isn't asking for much, but some men seem to think it's like asking for the moon.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Some men are whiny boys. Society these days is contributing to creating them.

Nuff said.


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## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

Casual Observer said:


> The "good enough" thing- is that simply unmet expectations? And is it reasonable to think that expectations should remain static? I think the key is how we react to changing expectations, which are bound to happen during a marriage. What was OK when you're young & stupid & have no future, may not be so a couple decades later.


It was definitely changing preferences or a huge shift in perspective. The positives (IE the things that made me "too good") during dating made me intolerable at the end of marriage.

The things cited in The Talk were things that predated meeting my ex by at least a decade and as she said, "Talking about reconciliation or going to marriage counseling is pointless because at the end of all that talking you would still be you." and she wasn't wrong. Examples of things she mentioned that she couldn't deal with anymore: I've always thought about my responses in conversations before I said them and had a bit of a stutter since at least kindergarten. I was a small wrestler since elementary school so I've always been skinny though defined. I planned on being an engineer since elementary school as well and working as one I was probably going to make a decent salary. I prefer books to tv and I never was and never will be interested in things like "Married at First Sight" or "Survivor". I've been pretty self-sufficient and self-reliant since I was 10.

*shrug* I was married for the things that made me me and I was divorced for the same reason.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

FeministInPink said:


> I expect all these things. And honestly, if we are talking about high standards and low standards, expecting a man to open doors for me and other basic chivalry is a really low threshold. It really isn't asking for much, but some men seem to think it's like asking for the moon.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk




Here’s the thing... I never really learned how to date. It was never taught or explained to me by my mom or whoever. All I had was a guide from the church. I married my high school sweetheart, and now that I am dating again I don’t really know how to.
I wonder where we all learn how to date? Who teaches young girls and young boys how to treat the other?


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Girl_power said:


> I agree with this. What chivalry things do you want exactly?
> For me it’s opening doors, offering their coat if I look cold, paying for dates (even though later on I often pay).


Chivalry for me is opening doors, walking on the street side, pulling out chairs, walking me to my car, holding the umbrella when is raining, texting/calling to confirm I made it home safely, helping me in and out of my coat, and offering his arm when we walk. 

I'm also one of those women who likes it when a man opens the door and then gently places his hand on my back to lead me through. Obviously not something I would be comfortable with strangers but family, friends, dates.... It's all good.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Girl_power said:


> Here’s the thing... I never really learned how to date. It was never taught or explained to me by my mom or whoever. All I had was a guide from the church. I married my high school sweetheart, and now that I am dating again I don’t really know how to.
> I wonder where we all learn how to date? Who teaches young girls and young boys how to treat the other?


Good question. My kids are between 20 and 30 right now. I dated a lot. Lots of blind dates. I learned by observing my peers, a few pointers from my mother, and a . lot of trial and error. Dad was kind of quiet on the subject. A lot of my peers were so misogynistic as to be unreliable examples. My kids on the other hand limited their dating to major events like homecoming and prom. I encouraged more dating, even offering financial incentives. (went over about as well as you would expect)

As a parent, I wasn't invited along on dates. I was only given the briefest after action reports. My "advice" was treated with suspicion, as I was obviously about 20 years out of date. 
What I learned from my dad that is still just a relevant. Have boundaries. Don't do things that look suspicious. Don't accept treatment that is below your "standards".
What I learned from my Mom. if you think that you are putting in 60-75% of the effort in a relationship, you are probably breaking even. Don't be selfish.
What I learned from the example of my friends. Make the effort to plan a nice date. Keep your car clean. 
What I learned from my dates. Be comfortable. Have fun. Be honest.

I'm a little surprised that you are asking about standards. You just showed us all that you know how to enforce your standards. Yes it took awhile for you to make the decision, but it was coming all along. All of those discussions we had about chores were leading up to you leaving your boyfriend. In the end you determined that he was not going to meet your standard for sharing responsibility and you let him go. Good job.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Mr. Nail said:


> I'm a little surprised that you are asking about standards. You just showed us all that you know how to enforce your standards. Yes it took awhile for you to make the decision, but it was coming all along. All of those discussions we had about chores were leading up to you leaving your boyfriend. In the end you determined that he was not going to meet your standard for sharing responsibility and you let him go. Good job.



Well I am doubting my decision. And doing my usual over thinking and re-evaluating.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Well my vote is for finding someone who is a real partner to you. Someone who doesn't leave you worrying about chores.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

In all situations where one doesn't know exactly how to act, or have enjoyable discourse; good manners will always win the day.

Until one is grows more comfortable with themselves in any interactions good manners in eating, conversation, interaction will always provide a solid foundation during meeting, dating, and more.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Girl_power said:


> Here’s the thing... I never really learned how to date. It was never taught or explained to me by my mom or whoever. All I had was a guide from the church. I married my high school sweetheart, and now that I am dating again I don’t really know how to.
> I wonder where we all learn how to date? Who teaches young girls and young boys how to treat the other?


Grrrrl, neither do I! I am completely clueless, though my experience is very different from yours. I'm not going to go into it, but my mother gives nothing but crap advice, and I didn't figure that out until it was way too late, and any time I took her advice, it ****ed up my life. SO. Needless to say, I don't know WTF I am doing when it comes to dating. I divorced in 2013, and I've been trying to learn how to date ever since.

(Interestingly enough, it was thanks to my mother's craptastic advice, particularly regarding standards, that I married my ex. She was always telling me that I needed to lower my standards, because "if you don't, you will always disappointed, because your standards are too high and no one can meet them." I figured out later that this advice reflected two things: 1) she truly believes that every man is a POS, and maybe she thought she was preparing me for that, and 2) this was her way of manipulating me to accept her crappy treatment as ok. Because she trained me to basically have NO expectations and NO standards, I married a POS who treated me like crap... because I honestly thought that was the best I could get and the best I deserved.)

Anyway, I'm striving to learn how to date, and it's been a lot of trial and error. But I have learned that if you adjust your standards up, and refuse to date people who don't meet your standards... you also start holding yourself to higher standards, you start to treat yourself better, and you start finding men who DO meet your standards. 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

FeministInPink said:


> Grrrrl, neither do I! I am completely clueless, though my experience is very different from yours. I'm not going to go into it, but my mother gives nothing but crap advice, and I didn't figure that out until it was way too late, and any time I took her advice, it ****ed up my life. SO. Needless to say, I don't know WTF I am doing when it comes to dating. I divorced in 2013, and I've been trying to learn how to date ever since.
> 
> (Interestingly enough, it was thanks to my mother's craptastic advice, particularly regarding standards, that I married my ex. She was always telling me that I needed to lower my standards, because "if you don't, you will always disappointed, because your standards are too high and no one can meet them." I figured out later that this advice reflected two things: 1) she truly believes that every man is a POS, and maybe she thought she was preparing me for that, and 2) this was her way of manipulating me to accept her crappy treatment as ok. Because she trained me to basically have NO expectations and NO standards, I married a POS who treated me like crap... because I honestly thought that was the best I could get and the best I deserved.)
> 
> ...




My mom is the same way. She raised me to have little respect for men, and to think they can’t do anything right and basically not to expect anything from them.


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## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

Girl_power said:


> My mom is the same way. She raised me to have little respect for men, and to think they can’t do anything right and basically not to expect anything from them.


So. Many. People. are that way. My girls and I sometimes make a game of pointing out the terrible and condescending things said about males of all ages. It is terribly insulting.

There has been several comments in the thread saying that they don't know how to date. I don't pretend to be an expert, not having been on a first date since the late nineties, but I always thought that it should work a lot like hanging out with your friends or new acquaintances. You tell funny stories about your life, try to find common experiences, and do something that everyone there finds enjoyable. Is that not the way you should do it? I would be completely lost once touching of any kind started, I think, but I could probably get through an entire first date.

I might do the old fashioned thing (opening doors, paying, etc) but I would expect a distinct lack of the condescending attitude mentioned above. More than one sentence starting with "men are..." followed by an insult would probably mean there wouldn't be a second date.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Girl_power said:


> My mom is the same way. She raised me to have little respect for men, and to think they can’t do anything right and basically not to expect anything from them.


Pop culture does a lot to perpetuate this. How many modern TV sitcoms feature a super-efficient, put-together hot mom with a bumbling, chubby (sometimes slovenly) dad who always screws everything up? It sends a horrible message, multiple messages, actually:

1) men are dum dums who can't do anything right; and
2) even if you're a slovenly idiot, you still deserve a hot girl who will fall over herself to have sex with you

As much of a cultural pariah as Bill Cosby is right now, the Cosby show presented much better relationship role models than any modern sitcom.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Hiner112 said:


> So. Many. People. are that way. My girls and I sometimes make a game of pointing out the terrible and condescending things said about males of all ages. It is terribly insulting.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think my biggest problem is the part before the actual date--how to meet men and secure an actual date. I'm horrible at flirting, and I never know how to strike up a conversation with a man I find attractive.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

FeministInPink said:


> Pop culture does a lot to perpetuate this. How many modern TV sitcoms feature a super-efficient, put-together hot mom with a bumbling, chubby (sometimes slovenly) dad who always screws everything up? It sends a horrible message, multiple messages, actually:
> 
> 1) men are dum dums who can't do anything right; and
> 2) even if you're a slovenly idiot, you still deserve a hot girl who will fall over herself to have sex with you
> ...


Love this post and couldn't agree more.


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## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

FeministInPink said:


> I think my biggest problem is the part before the actual date--how to meet men and secure an actual date. I'm horrible at flirting, and I never know how to strike up a conversation with a man I find attractive.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


LOL, I can't help at all there. I've literally never asked anyone out before. I was asked out by a couple of the high school trainers and the little sister of one of my friends. My wife of 20 years was a blind date set up through a mutual friend. And that's the extent of my dating experience. 

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Girl_power said:


> You compared me saying standards reflect self worth with the car you drive reflecting financial worth. I disagree. Not everyone values a car, so they wouldn’t put a lot of money into it. But standards meaning... how you expect to be treated, does reflect self worth to a certain degree. Some people have little self worth they are willing to put up with abuse, and bad treatment.
> 
> What I mean about too high and too low standards is needing to be treated a certain way before you can pass go.
> 
> ...


*So where are these women? More especially the older, empathetic, intelligent ones, who aren't jaded or narcissistic in nature?*


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Girl_power said:


> Here’s the thing... I never really learned how to date. It was never taught or explained to me by my mom or whoever. All I had was a guide from the church. I married my high school sweetheart, and now that I am dating again I don’t really know how to.
> I wonder where we all learn how to date? Who teaches young girls and young boys how to treat the other?


Does anyone actually get taught how to date? I certainly wasn't. To me its just meeting with someone and chatting and getting to know them and seeing if you have anything in common. 
I married young, at 19, engaged at 18, so didn't have that much experience of dating compared to many. I did have 2 boyfriends before my first husband, one at age 15-16 and one at age 17, both lasted several months, the second emigrated to OZ with his family, so that was that. 
I don't think dating is something that can be taught though. 

Once my first marriage ended after 25 years and I had had 4 years to recover a bit, I began dating again(online). By then my standards were far higher in what I wanted in man. Not the usual, 'he must be rich', or 'he must be tall' sort of shallow standards, but things like, he must be a strong Christian, he must not expect sex outside marriage, no porn, completely honest, have integrity etc etc. Pretty hard to find a man like that in the UK(or anywhere I suspect), so I only had a date with 3 men in the 2 years before I met my husband. I got on well with one of them but he was still pretty messed up from his divorce so that wasn't an option as I was more than ready to marry again by then. 
Then I met 'the one' who was all I wanted and asked for, and the rest is history.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

Girl_power said:


> Here’s the thing... I never really learned how to date. It was never taught or explained to me by my mom or whoever. All I had was a guide from the church. I married my high school sweetheart, and now that I am dating again I don’t really know how to.
> I wonder where we all learn how to date? Who teaches young girls and young boys how to treat the other?


Sometimes in your posts I sense a bit of rigidity to a set of rules or requirements for a relationship. I don't think anything is particularly wrong about those things you're looking for. Those are the things you want in a good partner. But comparing your partner strictly against those requirements may mean you're unhappy because he doesn't match the standard as opposed to him not being a good person.

As an experiment, maybe you should go out with guys which don't meet those standards you were raised with. Still go out with decent guys, but don't be so concerned if he doesn't check off all the boxes for chivalry or whatever. As long as he's respectful, kind, treats you well, and so on, see how it goes. If you aren't happy with something he's doing, think about if it's because he's not meeting a standard your mom told you or if it's something that is objectively bad. For example, not doing 100% of the planning for a date is not inherently bad. It may not be your preference, but it's not the sign of a bad person. But ignoring your texts for days is inherently bad since it shows a lack of respect and concern for your feelings.

I doubt many people were taught how to date. I think most people just stumble through the process as best they can. Don't be afraid of making mistakes or going out with people you don't click with. Just say "oh well", chalk it up to experience, and move on to find someone better. One regret I have from being young is being too concerned with finding someone to have a long relationship with. I wish instead I had dated many girls just to have fun and see where it went. Instead, I would hold out for the perfect partner which means I probably passed up many girls who would have been great partners.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

wilson said:


> Sometimes in your posts I sense a bit of rigidity to a set of rules or requirements for a relationship. I don't think anything is particularly wrong about those things you're looking for. Those are the things you want in a good partner. But comparing your partner strictly against those requirements may mean you're unhappy because he doesn't match the standard as opposed to him not being a good person.
> 
> As an experiment, maybe you should go out with guys which don't meet those standards you were raised with. Still go out with decent guys, but don't be so concerned if he doesn't check off all the boxes for chivalry or whatever. As long as he's respectful, kind, treats you well, and so on, see how it goes. If you aren't happy with something he's doing, think about if it's because he's not meeting a standard your mom told you or if it's something that is objectively bad. For example, not doing 100% of the planning for a date is not inherently bad. It may not be your preference, but it's not the sign of a bad person. But ignoring your texts for days is inherently bad since it shows a lack of respect and concern for your feelings.
> 
> I doubt many people were taught how to date. I think most people just stumble through the process as best they can. Don't be afraid of making mistakes or going out with people you don't click with. Just say "oh well", chalk it up to experience, and move on to find someone better. One regret I have from being young is being too concerned with finding someone to have a long relationship with.* I wish instead I had dated many girls just to have fun and see where it went.  Instead, I would hold out for the perfect partner which means I probably passed up many girls who would have been great partners.*


*As did I! Was not what you'd refer to as a prolific dater in either my high school or undergrad or grad college days!

2 fairly long-term relationships in college, as I thoroughly loved the security of having a girlfriend, much like my frat brothers!

In grad school, I didn't really have time for a relationship much less dating! *


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Girl_power said:


> I hear all the time, have standards, don’t lower your standards. Having standards is a reflection of self worth. If you don’t have any standards one would say negative things like your easy, desperate, have low self esteem/worth. If your standards are too high then people would say your unrealistic, high maintenance, impossible expectations, and judgmental.
> 
> So what are normal standards when dating? Has anyone ever dated someone with too low or too high of standards and what did that look like?


I have heard men complain that women have too high standards for men. I do think that most women meeting the average man would find him below average in every respect. This is reflected in women often wondering why all the me are below average.

But, that makes sense. Women historically have a lot more to lose in a bad relationship.

I am writing this from a male perspective. It is only from one angle, and it will be limited.

As a man dating in the USA, who was considered desirible, I really had my pick, because this skewed perception made me rare. Great for me, but not great for women generally. 

I also see something in the USA (though not as much as the UK), where a virtue is made of victimhood. Really, the vast majority of men are fully house trained and take responsibilty round the house and look after their woman when they are both ill. Because this is taboo to say, the women who are dumped with a man who is as women describe their man (i.e. a slob) end up thinking that is normal.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Girl_power said:


> You compared me saying standards reflect self worth with the car you drive reflecting financial worth. I disagree. Not everyone values a car, so they wouldn’t put a lot of money into it. But standards meaning... how you expect to be treated, does reflect self worth to a certain degree. Some people have little self worth they are willing to put up with abuse, and bad treatment.
> 
> What I mean about too high and too low standards is needing to be treated a certain way before you can pass go.
> 
> ...


I have seen this. It seemed to me that because they so rarely saw a man they percieved as reasonable, they were willing to sacrifice too much. I have had told women that I am not worth the extent required, but I am nice.

Or they might have a crushed ego.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Mr The Other said:


> I have heard men complain that women have too high standards for men. I do think that most women meeting the average man would find him below average in every respect. This is reflected in women often wondering why all the me are below average.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I agree. I think that women perceive men as lazy and not putting in enough effort, and men perceive women as being too high maintenance or too high standards or too much work and not worth the effort. 

I think that generally speaking women put a lot of effort in their lives... just appearances alone take way more effort than men will ever realize. And on top of that we want our homes to look nice and decorated. We put effort into those things where as men put less effort into such things.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Girl_power said:


> I agree. I think that women perceive men as lazy and not putting in enough effort, and men perceive women as being too high maintenance or too high standards or too much work and not worth the effort.
> 
> I think that generally speaking women put a lot of effort in their lives... just appearances alone take way more effort than men will ever realize. And on top of that we want our homes to look nice and decorated. We put effort into those things where as men put less effort into such things.


Yes.

I also think that these things are highly sensitive to the culture and generation. For my generation, I saw a huge variation is expectations of effort and responsibilities in my generation between France, UK and Scandinavia. My Mum will forever believe that I finish work and laze around while my wife looks after me, and that is not something even my wife can dissuade them from!


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Womens standards do seem rather higher than men. Men are generally happy with a mate that is :
1. Agreeable (not a lot of drama)
2. Sexually satisfying (atleast 2-3 times a week on average)
3. Cooks a hot dinner a few nights a week

When one of these things gets out of whack, it tends to throw the man's whole world off kilter and we start etching boobies on cave walls and blowing stuff up.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Womens standards do seem rather higher than men. Men are generally happy with a mate that is :
> 1. Agreeable (not a lot of drama)
> 2. Sexually satisfying (atleast 2-3 times a week on average)
> 3. Cooks a hot dinner a few nights a week
> ...




Yes men and women have different needs and men’s seem to be less complicated. Also men generally are easier to make happy. Women take work and effort.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Girl_power said:


> Yes men and women have different needs and men’s seem to be less complicated. Also men generally are easier to make happy. Women take work and effort.


Stereotypes in relationships tend to be self-fulfilling prophecies.

I can find plenty of men who think women are dingbats, and all of the evidence that comes their way "proves" they're right, the other kind of evidence steering well clear of them.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

SpinyNorman said:


> Stereotypes in relationships tend to be self-fulfilling prophecies.
> 
> 
> 
> I can find plenty of men who think women are dingbats, and all of the evidence that comes their way "proves" they're right, the other kind of evidence steering well clear of them.


You hit the nail on the head with this one. I see this over and over, both in real life and here on TAM, with both men and women and their preconceived notions about the opposite sex.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

I think you should have standards. In other words, you should be looking for somebody who brings something to the table comparable to what you can bring. If you are a woman and you only attract guys who want to "date" you but don't want anything serious, you may want to think about what you bring to the table for a long-term relationship.

A lot of time what people are talking about by "standards" are things like physical attractiveness, education, charisma and money. In other words, what would make someone a desirable person to bring to a party as your partner. That's not necessarily the characteristics that would make a person a good spouse or parent.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

> I doubt many people were taught how to date. I think most people just stumble through the process as best they can. Don't be afraid of making mistakes or going out with people you don't click with. Just say "oh well", chalk it up to experience, and move on to find someone better. One regret I have from being young is being too concerned with finding someone to have a long relationship with. I wish instead I had dated many girls just to have fun and see where it went. Instead, I would hold out for the perfect partner which means I probably passed up many girls who would have been great partners.





arbitrator said:


> *As did I! Was not what you'd refer to as a prolific dater in either my high school or undergrad or grad college days!
> 
> 2 fairly long-term relationships in college, as I thoroughly loved the security of having a girlfriend, much like my frat brothers!
> 
> In grad school, I didn't really have time for a relationship much less dating! *


I was concerned that I would end up marrying anybody that I dated. I also believed I would get a better quality woman once I proved my worth through education and career. So, I waited until I was out of graduate school to have a girlfriend. (One girlfriend, who I married.) I'm not saying that it was right but that's what I did. I simply wasn't on the market, though some females did attempt to pull me on.


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## Not (Jun 12, 2017)

Good topic. I most definitely have standards, things I expect that I’m not willing to bend on. My past history includes some mental/emotional abuse so I’m greatly influenced by those experiences. I expect mutual respect and kindness. If I begin to see even the slightest sign of disrespect or dishonesty he gets cut off immediately. I do have standards for physical appearance. If I don’t have a double chin or a belly that hangs over my belt then he shouldn’t either. 

I’m pretty flexible on almost everything else. Brown, blonde, red, black or no hair, I’m flexible. If you want to hold the door me I’m fine with that but if you don’t I’m a big girl and can do it myself. If you want to pay for my dinner it’s all good but let me pay for yours next time. Hobbies? You have a passion for something? Awesome! Everything else can be worked on and through together. 

My standards are definitely a reflection of who I am and if your watching and listening very closely when your dating me you’ll learn a lot about me through the choices I make and the things I do.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Not dating but when I was I would have said. Character, having some care about your appearance, chemistry.


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