# Fornification / Pre-marital Sex



## MourningAfter (Sep 16, 2011)

Greetings. 

I'm an average guy in mid 20's and have been in a very fun/healthy relationship with my current gf for over 2 years now (shes in her mid 20's as well). Our relationship started out as best friends then became friends with benefits. We progressed quickly into a sexual relationship and that lead to a more serious relationship... 

Some quick background information as it will help explain my situation... My girlfriend had a lot of problems/baggage in the past. She did drugs (pot/coke), was a heavy drinker, and was in an abusive realtionship for 5-6 years. I was aware of this before entering the relationship. 

Fast foward till now she had made enormous amount of efforts to change who she is for me (voluntarily on her part). She stopped drinking all together, never took any drugs in last 2 years, and started doing a lot of healthy exercises/programs. I loved it and was extremely proud of her. 

Since a year ago she started to connect with god again (christianity). She started to taking me to church, started reading the bible, listened to christian radio stations, and started attending bible studies on weekly basis. At first i thought this was a good- as i was raised from a christian family (not a strong believer) and was content. As the months passed i felt like she was becomming a lot more devoted to god. She explained that she was too happy with me and in so much love that she feared if she did not give gratitude and honor god that he will not bless our relationship or take me away...

Here's the problem: Last week out of nowhere she said we needed to talk. She said that she wanted to be obedient to god and follow his path so going foward we could not have sex until after we get married... I was in shock and disbelif... even 3 days before she said that we were having sex least 2-3 times a week. She claims she has been struggling about it for 3 months prior to telling me... She claims that she tried to ignore it for the longest time and honor god in other good deeds but god kept "telling" her that it was wrong for us to have a sexual relationship before marrying. 

This is a 180 degree change in person/situation... the rules were changed in the middle of a game seems like... and now im faced with an ultimatum... We took some time apart (2 weeks) so that we have time to think over things... i told her that an initimate relationship was important to me and that i don't think the realtionship could work as i would end up resenting her. I'm no where close to even think about marrying her (financially and emotionally) and even if i did it would seem like it was forced upon... 

Im absolutely certain she loves me and she expressed that im the only man for her in her life...My gf said she can't live without me and life with me would be meaningless to her... she always had abandonment issues and feared that one day i might leave her (though i had no reasons too and reassured many times). She claims if we truely love eachother we can overcome this and she is trying to convience me to go on "dates" holding hands, kissing, hugging, but no sex... I mean we've been LIVING together for the past two years... how can i possibly accept that? I told her all of this and yet she insist that we try anyways... it would have been easier for me if she told me she found a better man or just dont love me anymore. I can't even get mad at her or be dissapointed... The hardest part is that she's such a sweetheart and she will be absolutely wrecked if i were to break up with her... She's trying so hard to make things like its normal and trying so hard to make me love her more by doing sweet things... i'm currently staying at my friends place and she wants me to sleep over at her place this weekend (and have sex for last two times and after that cold turkey)... but at this point i really don't know what to do...


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Me & my boyfriend/now husband waited till marraige for intercourse, of coarse I did these things because of religious beliefs mainly, and fear God would be displeased with me, with us. Plus my parents would have crucified me if I got pregnant. 

At first it was near excrusiating to wait, BUT .... during that whole time we had VERY roaving hands -or we would have went stark raving mad - this kept us sane and able to hold on, and we did for years. I still felt guilty about that -because of what the Church teaches about "PURITY" constantly pounding that into our heads, but in my heart of hearts I somehow still felt "good" about what we was holding out for. Most of my friends didn't wait. It was a rare thing. But still, I was conflicted, it caused me alot of "sex is dirty" thoughts, that went right into my marraige, it was not something I could turn off --with a 'switch". 

Just saying, it is a battlefeild when you are dating & have to abide by all of this, and if you are not on the same page with her (as clearly you are not), it will cause major problems, possibly a break up. I was lucky , My husband was OK with how we handled ourselves, he was not frustrated or upset or pushed for more, very respectful. I know how rare that is to find in a guy, so I KNEW he was a keeper. 

I once read this story on a Christian sex forum, where this guy & girl met, had wonderful passionate Sex in College, shortly after they both found God and decided to go COLD TURKEY -- they waited another 2 yrs to marry, all sexual touching stopped (he didn't describe the struggle too much but I am sure it was severe at 1st)...

He was so happy, anticipating their Wedding - to finally be with her again in every physical way -to start where they left off ---only to find on their wedding night, she told him she didn't like sex and didn't care if she ever had it again. And here it was 6 months later...him coming to that forum desperate, a broken man, frustrated husband, lonely, rejected , not knowing what to do , where to turn -does he get a divorce, carry on --because his wife still had NO desire for him. It was dead. It was heart wrenching to read. 

Not that THIS happens to the majority of those who wait, it DOESN'T, but the fact this can happen at all --well, it just shouldn't be!! She totally REPRESSED her sex drive. Buried it! And he allowed her to do it -not being aware of the possible ramifications. All the answers he got was...Pray, seek God, she needs counseling. All I kept thinking was.... they should have kept touching each other at the very least- kept those orgasms coming - and still they could have acheived "the waiting " for intercourse, it might have not been the Most Purest thing to do, but that would have NEVER NEVER happened. 

Me & mine still expressed our sexuality during dating, I wouldn't take that back for the world. 

Just my 2 cents. You will resent... she will feel Guilty before her God -like He will not bless her future with you... 

I can't say I blame her though in one respect - you saying this 


> I'm no where close to even think about marrying her (financially and emotionally) and even if i did it would seem like it was forced upon...


 As a Christian, she at the very least needs to know you are committed to her- no matter what, no matter when - I would have never even considered going all the way if I felt a guy wouldn't drop the world for me -I needed that "assurance". That was very very very important to me. With her new beliefs, I am sure this is a very big deal to her now. 

Does she know you feel this way?


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## PFTGuy (Aug 28, 2011)

My opinion: you have to accept and honor her wishes. If you love her, marry her. Otherwise, learn how to enjoy a non-sexual relationship with her.

Not saying it's an easy situation.


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## ARF (Jan 26, 2011)

As a Christian myself, I admire her newfound dedication to the faith. I also find her desire to follow her belief very admirable. However, I am extremely empathetic to your situation as well. If I were in your shoes, I would find quiting cold turkey to be very difficult.

In the end it is up to you to decide what you can be willing sacrafice in the name of making your partner happy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

> She explained that she was too happy with me and in so much love that she feared if she did not give gratitude and honor god that he will not bless our relationship or take me away...


It's my understanding that the Christian God does not take, it is His very nature to love and give. Only by rejecting his gift or his love we get things taken away.



> She claims that she tried to ignore it for the longest time and honor god in other good deeds but god kept "telling" her that it was wrong for us to have a sexual relationship before marrying.


God kept telling her? No, it's her fear telling her lol

You can try agreeing with her then teasing the hell outta her like what I did with the missus before marriage haha. There are ways for that, but it does mean you have to lay off on the intercourse for now. One thing kept leading to the next from touching to massaging to rubbing to "OMG I can't take it anymore!" to outright ripping and ramming.

The thing is, tell her that the old testament is full of laws such as this, and the new testament is all about love and what God is, love is superior to law, as if love (selflessness) is enforced, laws aren't necessary. That's how the missus saw it, and we have always loved each other.

EDIT: Also, the thing is, if you are going to break up with her just because of the withdrawal then it's doesn't seem that you actually do care about her. I hope that's not the case... btw, sex for the last two times? Hehehe :FIREdevil:

Well, you know what may happen right? You can make it so good that the "last times" will lead to "one more time" and another "time" etc etc lol

Or you can be a bit teasy, for the 2nd last time, tease the hell outta her, withdraw a bit, but not too much, then spoil her senseless. Disrupt her thinking patterns, then on the very last session, withdraw from her completely and don't do it with her. :rofl:


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

I think you have a bigger decision to make here than just sex. I am a devout Christian and I believe premarital sex is not in God's plan. I believe that God knows sex is just too emotionally loaded to treat casually; He designed the commitment of marriage to make sex "safe" by giving us an emotional attachment that matches the physical intimacy which is occurring. God doesn't say premarital sex is wrong because He wants to destroy our joy; He says that sex is too potent to take place outside of a committed relationship (and marriage is the ultimate committed relationship).

However, I don't think you should just marry her and make it "all right" to have sex with her again.

She has made a big commitment to a faith that is literally life-changing. Her values will be vastly different than a non-Christian's. This is not to be judgmental, but devout Christians just see the world differently than do non-Christians. 

I think you need to make a bigger decision than just whether you can still love her and not have sex. Can you stay with someone who is spiritually in a different place than you are? If she continues to seriously pursue her faith, she will probably become more interested in church activities, including possibly working in soup kitchens, being involved in the church choir, or even going to other countries on short-term missions trips to help the less fortunate. Is this something you can support? Is this something that is important to you?

Having a similar spiritual foundation is very important. I can't imagine how an atheist and a Christian (or a Hindu and a Muslim, or a...you get the picture) could build a close relationship. I know it happens, but how it happens is beyond me. This aspect of your life is too important to leave to chance.

If you have an interest in exploring Christianity, that would be great! However, if you continue to be on different pages regarding the importance of faith in your lives, it might ultimately be best if you part ways.

I know it's difficult when someone seems to change abruptly. You feel like you had an agreement with that person as to who they were, and then they changed. But her relationship with God has apparently become very important to her of late. You need to either accept this, join her, or move on.

My prayers are with you both. I sense your frustration. But from her point of view, she is really trying to live out her new-found faith in the most authentic way possible. If you try to talk her into having sex, you will be asking her to violate beliefs (new though they may be) that are at the very core of the person she wants to become. It's a very difficult position to put her in. Good luck in your decision as to how to handle this.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Not all premarital sex is casual. 

Not all marital sex is healthy.


Just puttin' that out there.


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## ThirdTimeACharm (Sep 1, 2011)

Your Christian God will not damn you to hell if you have sex with your committed boyfriend. Rules in the past were there for reasons of the past, and those reasons are not all here in the now.


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

that_girl said:


> Not all premarital sex is casual.
> 
> Not all marital sex is healthy.
> 
> ...


True. But our society's mores on sex have become so loose that it has become too casual for too many people. I realize there are differing opinions on when to have sex in a relationship and I can see the validity in your point of view.

But back to the original question: If his girlfriend's values have changed in such a way that sex is not something she feels right about outside of marriage, he either needs to respect that or move on. Asking her to violate a strongly held belief (even a new strongly held belief) is asking her to deny who she is. That's not healthy for anybody.


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## ThirdTimeACharm (Sep 1, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> .... during that whole time we had VERY roaving hands -or we would have went stark raving mad - this kept us sane and able to hold on, and we did for years.


I find this amazingly irrational. You abstain from sex because of your beliefs yet you're okay with "roaving hands". Well you certainly were not fooling your God...roaving hands are THE SAME as sex, and you may as well have had full on intercourse instead of playing silly games. If you're suppose to abstain, then that means no roaving hands! This hypocracy and self-dillusion by many Christians is exceedingly amazing to me.

I'm glad I'm a recovered Christian...the duplicity, the subjectivity, was at age 51 too much for me to continue.


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## JuicyJellybean (Sep 18, 2011)

as a non-religious person but someone who has led a life somewhat similar to how you describe hers. she probably didnt overcome her drug addiction for you she most likely did it for herself but perhaps you provided the support she needed to put her on the right path. if religion is a way she has found to deal with addiction and other issues in her life you should support that and all that goes along with it (even no sex). 
You say that you are not ready to marry her, but why? it seems the two of you have been through so much already, why put up with so much from her if you do not plan to keep her forever? Perhaps if you can no longer support her in what is important to her she is not the one and has too much baggage for you.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

ThirdTimeACharm said:


> I find this amazingly irrational. You abstain from sex because of your beliefs yet you're okay with "roaving hands". Well you certainly were not fooling your God...roaving hands are THE SAME as sex, and you may as well have had full on intercourse instead of playing silly games. If you're suppose to abstain, then that means no roaving hands! This hypocracy and self-dillusion by many Christians is exceedingly amazing to me.
> 
> I'm glad I'm a recovered Christian...the duplicity, the subjectivity, was at age 51 too much for me to continue.


Believe me, I judged myself more than words can express , RELIGION has always been a hinding factor in my life and I NO LONGER consider myself a Christian -because trying to live such a life of holiness & Purity as YOU FEEL (I did not say God) was more hindering to my sexuality than anything on this earth and for that I have many regrets, not what we did -but the mindset I struggled with. I did a thread on this very issue. 

WHO are YOU to say that these things outside of intercoarse are wrong - what you hear from your Preacher ? 

According to the Bible.... 

*Deut 22: 13-21 *PROOF of virginity was in the BLOOD on the sheets. Accually blood is not mentioned here, but they were looking for something on those sheets! 



> 13 If a man takes a wife and, after sleeping with her, dislikes her 14 and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying, “I married this woman, but when I approached her, *I did not find proof of her virginity*,” 15 then the young woman’s father and mother shall bring to the town elders at the gate proof that she was *a virgin*. 16 Her father will say to the elders, “I gave my daughter in marriage to this man, but he dislikes her. 17 Now he has slandered her and said, ‘I did not find your daughter to be a *virgin*. *But here is the proof of my daughter’s virginity*.” *Then her parents shall display the cloth before the elders of the town*, 18 and the elders shall take the man and punish him. 19 They shall fine him a hundred shekels[a] of silver and give them to the young woman’s father, because this man has given an Israelite virgin a bad name. She shall continue to be his wife; he must not divorce her as long as he lives. 20 If, however, the charge is true and *no proof *of the young woman’s *virginity *can be found,



*Eph. 5:23 *


> For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh


 How does 2 become one flesh ? Penis *IN *vigina sounds pretty "reasonable" to me- as this would be a FUSION Of sorts -plus this has a high propensity to create LIFE itself  - equaling ONE FLESH. 

So according to these scriptures, I WAS very much Physically a virgin when I married, IN fact I had so much HELL with my hymen, it is almost laughable looking back. So I would have greatly PASSED God's Virginity test. ....

After 3 months of marraige, my husband STILL couldn't get it in. He was not into hurting me & getting it over with, I did bleed some. This was very frustrating, So off I go to the OBGYN with this crazy situation, terribly embarrassing -he confirms I had a RIDGID one alright , so he schedules me for a Hymenectomy, but a blood test revealed I was "with child" a couple days later - what a shocker ! So no surgery allowed.... it took another 5 months, ( 8 months married ) for my husband to FULLY PENETRATE me. He had more to worry about than me at that time but our 1st baby. 

I really don't feel GOD is the Kill joy that you are painting Him, sorry I disagree. 

There is one poster here that LIVED as you feel is HOLY & Pure, they were both youth leaders, NEVER touching each other while dating, she felt that was EVIL, sinful, something was wrong with her that she had that DESIRE so strong, it affected her mind so much, she LOST her sex drive entirely. The 1st 4 yrs of her marraig was sexless - and now she faces Therapy to overcome. Read her 1st post here on this page : http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/24911-porn-christianity-6.html

*I have NO regrets* Looking back, I feel we did the RIGHT thing -for us.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

that_girl said:


> Not all premarital sex is casual.
> 
> Not all marital sex is healthy.
> 
> ...


:iagree:


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## mrs.rmiller (Aug 2, 2011)

You GF is still battling with some issues. It’s not easy to go from drug addict to living a clean and sober life. It is nice to see that she is so passionate about the things that she does. She dives into things very strongly and takes them all the way. (Bad characteristic when using drugs, great characteristic for careers, families, friendship, etc.) 

Why don’t you try it for a bit. Don’t think about it as “cut off until death do us part” think about it as something new that you are willing to support her with. Most likely, she will let her own desire take over. You both have been intimate for years and it is not easy for her to stop. I bet, if you went along with her choice and you supported her 100%, she will end up coming on to you. Take her on a few dates, hold her hand, buy her flowers, give her a message, kiss her, leave her cute little messages on the bathroom mirror with a bar of soap, when she showers the mirror will fog and she can read the message. Send her texts that are sweet and a little naughty, get her to the point where she can not handle it and tell her that you “can’t” or “shouldn’t” and walk away. Take her dancing or on a mini vacation. Ensure her that you are behind her plan completely. She will not be able to fight the urge. 

I think if you push her to have sex, you will give her more power to say “no”. If you give her what she wants, she will most likely give you what you want. Women are not really that complex. If she enjoyed being intimate with you in the past, she will still want it. 

Play the game… Think of defense and offensive plans.

If she stills says “NO” then respect her wishes, but give it time and have some fun. 

I think that a person should wait till marriage for their own personal sake. I will teach my children this, but if you’ve already done it with that partner it’s a little different. She still has the right to figure this out on her own.


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## Lydia (Sep 4, 2011)

If that is her opinion, you have to respect it. If you pressure her or try to change her mind, she will probably just pull away from you and think you are only interested in sex, if she is really serious about being abstinent.

After a few weeks, or months, she may decide on her own to revert back. Who knows?

But honestly, I think you need to re-evaluate why you are in a relationship with her if her having sex would make you break it off. I think sex is important in a lot of marriages, but I think it's disrespectful for people to push for something the other does not want.

The best thing you can do for her, if you care for her, is tell her that you fully support her decision and respect her wishes. However, a religious difference may not bode well on your future (just my opinion here).


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## rikithemonk (Jun 8, 2011)

MourningAfter said:


> Greetings.
> 
> I'm an average guy in mid 20's and have been in a very fun/healthy relationship with my current gf for over 2 years now (shes in her mid 20's as well). Our relationship started out as best friends then became friends with benefits. We progressed quickly into a sexual relationship and that lead to a more serious relationship...
> 
> ...





This is about change and you have to ask yourself if this is going to be OK to you.

Personally cutting of sex is a deal breaker for me, but you may have a different set of criteria for what is a relationship and what is acceptable in that relationship.

Are you sure that you want to be with a woman that is taking religion to that extreme? The decision is completely up to you, but if it were me, I would let her go her own way. Her personality has changed quite a bit and she is a very different person now. 

People tent to "blow" break-ups, all out of proportion. Its not always devastation and hysterics. Its all how you go about it. Just tell her that your happy that she has changed her life so much for the better, but the sex is something your not prepared to go without. Tell her not to worry because her church has a great singles group and she will meet a wonderful guy who will love her and not push her for sex. (Of course he will be a closet homosexual but if that's what she wants, who am I to argue)

And you can then go and find someone more compatible with your beliefs and the lifestyle you want to live. 

Up to you


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