# Men's Perspective on Child Support



## Kearson (Jan 18, 2012)

A little background: My STBXH and I should NOT have gotten married. He informed me at one point that he only married me because I was pregnant. We were both a wreck when we got married. I've gotten better. He hasn't.

I gave him the option to go to counseling and he basically told me that nothing was going to change because he wasn't interested in fixing anything. So STBXH and I sat down and talked out how we wanted to split everything. We agreed on everything without much negotiating.

I wrote up the agreement based on what we had agreed to, and now he is back pedaling on the things he agreed to. I think it is because he wants more money to blow on stupid things (since he has taken up drinking and fast food every day again), but regardless, I think he's being selfish (which is no surprise).

Here is the deal: STBXH makes a little bit over minimum wage and works anywhere from 8-30 hours of overtime every week (by choice) on top of his 40 hours. He has no expenses. He always has and always will live here with his dad. He has no rent, no utilities, no car payment, no credit card bills, etc. His only costs are gas for the car, minutes for the prepaid cell he never uses, beer, smokes, and fast food (I do cook food, he just refuses to eat it out of spite and he's too lazy to make his own food).

In our settlement agreement, we have:

*$500/mo for spousal support for 20 months (this adds up to the 10K he offered to pay on my student loans to help improve my credit so that I can hopefully buy a condo after I graduate)

*$200/mo for child support (and if his income goes up, then the amount goes up proportionally) This does not start until after I move out, which right now would be around mid-2014.

*We split health care costs based on what is more economical (right now our son is covered by a state program, and probably will stay that way until I get a job in 2014)

*We split education costs (since STBXH and I agreed since day one that our son would go to private school). College will be our son's responsibility. School costs would start Fall of 2014.


My STBXH is now saying that this arrangement is not fair.

Is this agreement unfair? Or is he just being a selfish child? I just really need some male perspective here.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Not a male, but $200/mo is seriously low for child support.

As you go through this process, please remember to focus on your child. Although you can be as irked as you want to about how he spends his money, that's not relevant to the legal process, so don't keep bringing that up. It's about raising your child in a healthy and safe manner, and I sure hope you have not signed off on anything legal yet with that $200 figure, because that's bupkus.


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## Lionelhutz (Feb 2, 2012)

Many jurisdictions have specific fixed child support obligations depending on income. If you don't want to hire a lawyer you should at least do a google search and see what you can find out. 

Spousal support is hard to guess at without knowing a whole lot of other information.

I agree that since your marriage is ending, how he spends his money or lives his life is no longer relevant. All that matters is what is a far allocation of the child care costs.


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## Kearson (Jan 18, 2012)

lamaga said:


> Not a male, but $200/mo is seriously low for child support.
> 
> As you go through this process, please remember to focus on your child. Although you can be as irked as you want to about how he spends his money, that's not relevant to the legal process, so don't keep bringing that up. It's about raising your child in a healthy and safe manner, and I sure hope you have not signed off on anything legal yet with that $200 figure, because that's bupkus.


According to the state calculator, that's what he'd be paying at his current wage. Plus he'd have health care costs and significant education costs once 2014 rolls around. I don't want to bankrupt the man, but I do want him to contribute. 

If he keeps making that same wage he's making now, then about half his check will go toward supporting our son once 2014 comes around (between the child support, health insurance, and education costs.) But he has no expenses and had no interest in working things out, so I don't feel sorry for him. And, if he starts earning more money, then the child support amount goes up. If education costs go up, then he has to pay his share of that too. He's not getting off scott free.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

And I don't know anywhere where you can get a month of childcare for $200, not to mention food, and what about shelter? Utilities? Car payments?

Forget buying a condo, you are going to be hard pressed to buy school supplies.

But you will do as you see fit. I just hope you get some good legal advice. Good luck.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Based on family law up here, child support is table driven based on recent tax data. It's not something that you as a parent can or should be giving up for your child. A judge wont sign off on an agreement that isn't valid. There is also tax considerations for one type of payment vs. the other (spousal is a tax deduction for the one paying it).

Based on the limited info you give, the numbers seem out of whack. But maybe the total amounts are right. The proem would be that the spousal stops after 2 years, and I presume the child isn't 16 years old.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kearson (Jan 18, 2012)

lamaga said:


> And I don't know anywhere where you can get a month of childcare for $200, not to mention food, and what about shelter? Utilities? Car payments?
> 
> Forget buying a condo, you are going to be hard pressed to buy school supplies.
> 
> But you will do as you see fit. I just hope you get some good legal advice. Good luck.


My son won't need child care. He'll be in school where they have before and after care (part of the education costs). 

As to the other things, I would have those expenses with or without my son. I don't expect STBXH to pay to support ME. I will have my own income for housing, utilities, car, etc. I don't think paying for those things is my STBXH responsibility, to be honest. Yes, there will be extra expense for food, but I could feed myself and my son on $100/month because I'm awesome like that. I am a very thrifty and resourceful woman.


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## Kearson (Jan 18, 2012)

Trenton said:


> Kearson, you'll be getting $700 a month for two years and then $200 (or more) a month after two years?
> 
> I don't think this is enough.


700/month for two years (while I'm living rent and utility free here at FIL's house) and then when I move out it will be $200 for child support (if his wages have not gone up), approximately $600/month in educations costs, and approximately $200/month for healthcare, so $1000/mo, approximately, once 2014 rolls around (more if his wage goes up, or if educations costs rise, or if health insurance is crazy expensive).


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## Kearson (Jan 18, 2012)

Our son is 3 right now, by the way.


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## Kearson (Jan 18, 2012)

Trenton said:


> OK, seems fair given his pay but definitely the bare minimum. I would tell him that if that doesn't suit him you will insist on bringing it to court. I assume you're doing this through mediation?


We agreed to this on our own and now he's back pedaling before getting the agreement notarized. We are not going through formal mediation. He doesn't want to spend any time or money on this or go to court.

He and I are supposed to review the agreement again on Saturday, but before I throw the whole 'taking it to court' thing on the table, I wanted to make sure I wasn't being completely unreasonable in my amounts/expectations.

I know if I take him to court I could get more, and probably legal fees too. The thing is, he wouldn't be paying. His dad would be paying it to keep STBXH out of jail for contempt, and that poor man (my FIL) has already suffered enough because of my STBXH. 

I'm not going to intentionally set this into motion unless it is my last resort because I don't want my FIL having to pay this money. Not to mention, I still need to live here for 2 more years, so I'd rather not 'set the place on fire', if you know what I mean.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

So - your estimates are based on State guidelines?

The fact that you are living with his family should not be a factor. He could kick you out tomorrow and you'd have no recourse.

Also - not that it should matter - but you need to understand that Alimony/maintenance is considered taxable income for you - and child support is not taxed. So - kiss about 15% of the $500 per month goodbye...


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Again, though... Child support is for your child. You should be agreeing to, at a minimum, whatever is laid out by the guidelines. If you don't need all that money every month, sock it away for your child's college fund. Use it to buy clothes for him. Whatever. My point is that you shouldn't be giving away your son's money.

Personally, I give my wife about 30% of my takehome pay. We don't have a support agreement in place, but this is based on the guidelines for my area. This works out to around $2500 per month, with a split of about $2000 for child support (2 kids, 11 and 13) and $500 spousal.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kearson (Jan 18, 2012)

nice777guy said:


> So - your estimates are based on State guidelines?
> 
> The fact that you are living with his family should not be a factor. He could kick you out tomorrow and you'd have no recourse.
> 
> Also - not that it should matter - but you need to understand that Alimony/maintenance is considered taxable income for you - and child support is not taxed. So - kiss about 15% of the $500 per month goodbye...


The child support amount in the agreement is based on the state calculator for child support.

My FIL will not kick me out. He and I have talked and he agrees that STBXH is a selfish child, but he feels guilty because he's babied him for over 3 decades, so he feels responsible.

And yes, I know that Alimony is taxable and child support is not. I wrote in the student loan money as alimony to give STBXH a break on his taxes. If I wanted to be evil, I wouldn't call it spousal support and I'd write is as a part of debt that he owes so that he'd get no 'credit' for it.

I'm trying very hard to make this amicable. I don't want either side to get royally screwed.


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## Kearson (Jan 18, 2012)

PBear said:


> Again, though... Child support is for your child. You should be agreeing to, at a minimum, whatever is laid out by the guidelines.


I am. The amount designated as child support is per state guidelines based on his income and expenses.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Kearson said:


> The child support amount in the agreement is based on the state calculator for child support.
> 
> My FIL will not kick me out. He and I have talked and he agrees that STBXH is a selfish child, but he feels guilty because he's babied him for over 3 decades, so he feels responsible.
> 
> ...


From what I've heard - if you decide you want to alter this agreement in the future - it's going to be time consuming and costly.

If you are truly going by the state guidelines, then I'm not sure there's too much else you can really do.

I'm in agreement with the others that this sounds low - but if he's making minimum wage - maybe its correct.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

It sounds like you are doing it alright. He can't be made to help pay your student loans in any way...so calling it spousal is to both your benefits. Good job on that one. 

A couple more things tho.... decide now who gets to claim the child every year on taxes, the fair thing is to alternate years I'd think. Also, I'd put future child expenses such as.... orthodontics, extracurricular activities, uniforms, life insurance (on parents), band instruments, sports, car and insurance (later of course), prom, everything that you can think of ..... if you don't put it in there now that each parent will pay half then you will fight hard forever to not pay for EVERYTHING. Because as you have already figured out, once they are not sharing income....they really hate to share their income! I'd just put it all in there, and explain that you will deal with each expense as it comes up but you want to be clear that it will be 50/50 and that it's ALL ABOUT THE CHILD. 

However you figure it, keep voicing that it is not money for YOU, that you will make your own money and do your share and that this is for the child.

Also, call the Clerk of Court at the family division or whatever they call it by you, and find out how much it costs to file. Add that expense...or half it with him or whatever. It's probably cheaper than you think. You can do the whole thing yourself if you want to, as long as you get him to agree. I was able to do my whole divorce for about $300. And the clerk was helpful in telling me what papers needed to be filed. There are a few that are mandatory....and some optional.


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## Kearson (Jan 18, 2012)

SunnyT said:


> A couple more things tho.... decide now who gets to claim the child every year on taxes, the fair thing is to alternate years I'd think.


It is written in the agreement that STBXH gets to claim our son for 2012, 2013, and 2014 unless I move out before July 1st 2014. After that I claim him exclusively.



SunnyT said:


> Also, I'd put future child expenses such as.... orthodontics, extracurricular activities, uniforms, life insurance (on parents), band instruments, sports, car and insurance (later of course), prom, everything that you can think of ..... if you don't put it in there now that each parent will pay half then you will fight hard forever to not pay for EVERYTHING. Because as you have already figured out, once they are not sharing income....they really hate to share their income! I'd just put it all in there, and explain that you will deal with each expense as it comes up but you want to be clear that it will be 50/50 and that it's ALL ABOUT THE CHILD.


These things are addressed in the agreement and it is stated that said expenses will be split equitably based on income. I'll be making a heck of a lot more than my STBXH ever will, so I don't expect him to be able to go 50/50 on everything, but as I said, I do expect him to contribute.



SunnyT said:


> Also, call the Clerk of Court at the family division or whatever they call it by you, and find out how much it costs to file. Add that expense...or half it with him or whatever. It's probably cheaper than you think. You can do the whole thing yourself if you want to, as long as you get him to agree. I was able to do my whole divorce for about $300. And the clerk was helpful in telling me what papers needed to be filed. There are a few that are mandatory....and some optional.


Not an issue. We qualify for the fee waiver so our only expense is to notarize our agreement.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Those amounts are less than what I pay and we have joint custody... Kearson do you have sole custody with visitation for him or is it shared custody?


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## Kearson (Jan 18, 2012)

Lon said:


> Those amounts are less than what I pay and we have joint custody... Kearson do you have sole custody with visitation for him or is it shared custody?


It will be joint custody (he will still have a say in things for our son), but I will have physical custody most of the time. He has a minimum of two weekends a month, 4 weekdays a month, and 2 weeks of summer vacation written into the agreement with wiggle room for more if he wants it (which he won't because he'd rather sit in front of the computer than deal with our son).


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Child support should be per your state's guidelines.

Your list is a bit vague. I would want it very clearly spelled out with things like under which conditions which one of you provides health insurance, and then how the payments work.

The one item I am concerned about is the private school. Disclosure: 2 of my kids went through private school, 1 through public. Two are now in college and one still in high school. I would never agree to a specific open ended education fund. The reason is you don't know what you are agreeing to! What if stbxh in the future wants or arranges a very very expensive school? What if one of you wants School A but the other wants School B? What if the tuition skyrockets? (my kids' school doubled in cost about 4 years ago. OUCH).

Plus you don't want your child to feel entitled to private school. At the very least you should have some kind of GPA minimum and maybe some kind of extracurricular activity requirement (music, theater, sports, etc).

And what if your financial situation changes for the worse? Or his for the dramatically better via winning the lottery?

Spousal support has several different flavors. There is probably no clear "fair" answer for you guys since this is a short marriage with low incomes. Just because he said he'd give $10k in the past doesn't mean he is obligated today.


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## Kearson (Jan 18, 2012)

Thor said:


> Child support should be per your state's guidelines.


Again, for like the third time, the portion addressed as child support IS per the guidelines.



Thor said:


> Your list is a bit vague. I would want it very clearly spelled out with things like under which conditions which one of you provides health insurance, and then how the payments work.


It is spelled out, in detail, I just didn't want to put the whole 20 page document in a post :smthumbup:



Thor said:


> The one item I am concerned about is the private school. Disclosure: 2 of my kids went through private school, 1 through public. Two are now in college and one still in high school. I would never agree to a specific open ended education fund. The reason is you don't know what you are agreeing to! What if stbxh in the future wants or arranges a very very expensive school? What if one of you wants School A but the other wants School B? What if the tuition skyrockets? (my kids' school doubled in cost about 4 years ago. OUCH).


The school has already been agreed to. There are also stipulations to deal with financial changes as well as changing schools if it is deemed beneficial to the child. In the event of a dead lock, either parent reserves the right to go to court and fight it.



Thor said:


> Plus you don't want your child to feel entitled to private school. At the very least you should have some kind of GPA minimum and maybe some kind of extracurricular activity requirement (music, theater, sports, etc).


This is something that hadn't crossed my mind because I cannot imagine my child being so completely detached from humanity and arrogant to think they are entitled to anything. (I'm sure I have a rude awakening coming once he hits the teen years  ) Obviously I'm not going to send him to an expensive school if he insists on being an academic failure. If that happened, he'd be off to boot camp.



Thor said:


> And what if your financial situation changes for the worse? Or his for the dramatically better via winning the lottery?


Stipulations exist in the agreement for these situations.



Thor said:


> Spousal support has several different flavors. There is probably no clear "fair" answer for you guys since this is a short marriage with low incomes. Just because he said he'd give $10k in the past doesn't mean he is obligated today.


This 'past' you speak of was last week. :smthumbup: This is what he agreed to when we were outlining the details of the separation. He offered it. I did not ask for it. Because of his generosity in assisting me with that debt, I made several concessions that helped him. If he's going to go back on his word, then I will gladly re-write everything to make life more difficult for him.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

How long have the two of you been married?

Are you in school or working?

What % of your joint income does your husband earn?


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## Kearson (Jan 18, 2012)

In August it will be 4 years.

I start school again in the Fall.

My husband earns 100% of the income right now.

For the first 2 years of the marriage, I worked and he stayed home (I made double what he's making now) I left my job to stay home with our son, and then my husband went back to work. This is his second job in less than a year (He's been there since January of this year).


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Kearson said:


> According to the state calculator, that's what he'd be paying at his current wage. Plus he'd have health care costs and significant education costs once 2014 rolls around. I don't want to bankrupt the man, but I do want him to contribute.
> 
> If he keeps making that same wage he's making now, then about half his check will go toward supporting our son once 2014 comes around (between the child support, health insurance, and education costs.) But he has no expenses and had no interest in working things out, so I don't feel sorry for him. And, if he starts earning more money, then the child support amount goes up. If education costs go up, then he has to pay his share of that too. He's not getting off scott free.


I'm using the CA court calculator and assuming you have no income and his income is 40 hours a week at minimum wage, child support is $321 for one child with each of you having the child 50% of the time.

And spousal support is $392.00. 


--------------
if he worked 70 hours every week... child support would be $524 monthly. And interim spousal support $662.


This is for interim support while the divorce is in process. The Dissomaster is the calculator that is used after divorce and typically the numbers are different with it. I could give you the link to a site that will run 10 scenarios on the Dissomaster for $40. We used it a lot for my brother's divorce.

That's using the Santa Clara forumla. What county do you live in?

https://www.cse.ca.gov/ChildSupport...37d6-0939-425f-83e1-2d5480a7dff3&conv_id=none

And there is no spousal support at his income level.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Kearson said:


> In August it will be 4 years.
> 
> I start school again in the Fall.
> 
> ...


Ok see my post above. In California, he would most likely not owe you any spousal support. Yours is a short term marriage. You can support yourself. Once you are back at work, you might be required to pay him child support since you can earn twice what he does.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Kearson said:


> My son won't need child care. He'll be in school where they have before and after care (part of the education costs).
> 
> As to the other things, I would have those expenses with or without my son. I don't expect STBXH to pay to support ME. I will have my own income for housing, utilities, car, etc. I don't think paying for those things is my STBXH responsibility, to be honest. Yes, there will be extra expense for food, but I could feed myself and my son on $100/month because I'm awesome like that. I am a very thrifty and resourceful woman.


Please share how you feed 2 people for $100 a month.. especially in California. I really need to know this.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Kearson said:


> I am. The amount designated as child support is per state guidelines based on his income and expenses.


I used that state's on line calculator... its a lot more than $200 a month. What are you using to get your numbers?


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## Kearson (Jan 18, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Please share how you feed 2 people for $100 a month.. especially in California. I really need to know this.


It is doable if you cook from scratch and grow some of your own stuff. Many people couldn't do it because it's very lean on meat and dairy with no junk food or soda or anything like that.


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## Kearson (Jan 18, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> I used that state's on line calculator... its a lot more than $200 a month. What are you using to get your numbers?


I believe I have him at 1700, me making twice that, him having our son 21% of the time, with deductions for me for property insurance, mortgage interest, health insurance pre-tax, and maybe something else... It came out to 195/mo in child support so I rounded it up to 200 since STBXH hates weird numbers.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Kearson said:


> This is something that hadn't crossed my mind because I cannot imagine my child being so completely detached from humanity and arrogant to think they are entitled to anything. (I'm sure I have a rude awakening coming once he hits the teen years  ) Obviously I'm not going to send him to an expensive school if he insists on being an academic failure. If that happened, he'd be off to boot camp.


You may be shocked at some of the attitudes of the kids at private schools. My kids are at the lower financial end of their school, and they definitely knew that we were giving up things like fancy vacations and season ski lift tickets (we live within a couple of minutes of several world class ski areas). They watched classmates going to their other home in Hawaii on spring break, and they see kids driving a BMW to school.

So my kids always knew that future funding of their school was optional based on parents' discretion. Other kids whose parents have mega bucks see their private school as a given for people of their elevated class. Just like the spoiled rich kids don't appreciate the BMW they got for their 16th birthday, they don't appreciate the opportunity or cost of their education.

I strongly advise having requirements in the agreement so that you aren't railroaded into continuing to pay for private school if the father insists but the child is underperforming. Keep maximum flexibility for yourself in the agreement.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Kearson said:


> I believe I have him at 1700, me making twice that, him having our son 21% of the time, with deductions for me for property insurance, mortgage interest, health insurance pre-tax, and maybe something else... It came out to 195/mo in child support so I rounded it up to 200 since STBXH hates weird numbers.


Child support calculations are done based on gross pay. You cannot deduct property insurance & mortgage insurance. You can deduct health insurance that is deducted from your pay check.

Here is what I came up with…

Him $1700, you $3400, child with him 21 % of the time. He pays you $163 in child support. BUT… for interim support you would owe him $386 a month is spousal support. So $386-$163=$223 net that YOU owe him until the divorce is final. 

OR

Him $1700, you $3400, the two of you have your son 50% of the time. YOU pay him $284 a month in child support and $346 in spousal support. So $284 + $346 = $630 that YOU owe him monthly until the divorce is final. 

If I were in his court I’d also argue that while you have a short term marriage he needs additional support for half the term of your marriage, or for 2 years at $630 a month.

The Dissomaster used by the court for AFTER the divorce does sometimes calculate the amount of child support and spousal support higher than the online calculator used for interim support.

If I were you I’d be very careful about this. It looks like it’s you who owe him child support and interim spousal support, not the other way around.

The courts prefer something closer to 50/50 custody because a child needs both his mother and his father. They also seem to use the DissoMaster and then tweak it based on special circumstances. Each of you would have to argue if you think you have a special circumstance.

Your husband could very well end up getting child support and spousal support from you. Student loans are not community debt. Your husband does not have to give you anything towards that debt.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Trenton said:


> Your overall question was whether or not you were being reasonable as if you're asking our permission to stick to your guns. My limited perception is that yes, you are being more than reasonable and you should stick to your guns.


Based on California divorce codes and their income, she is not being reasonable . She will owe him child support since she will earn twice as much as he makes.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Kearson said:


> The child support amount in the agreement is based on the state calculator for child support.
> 
> My FIL will not kick me out. He and I have talked and he agrees that STBXH is a selfish child, but he feels guilty because he's babied him for over 3 decades, so he feels responsible.
> 
> ...


Why do you think your husband owes the anything on your student load debt?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Trenton said:


> I missed the part where she was making $3400 a month...


My understanding is that she is not making $3400 a month right now. When she was working she was making twice as much a he is. Her assumption seems to be that when she gets a job, she will be making twice what he makes.. or $3400 a month. 


He does not owe a penny on her student loans, so her trying to make him pay part of them is way too much.


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## Kearson (Jan 18, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Why do you think your husband owes the anything on your student load debt?


I never said he did. It's my debt, incurred before I ever met him. However, he agreed to pay the amount specified, and because of that generosity, I made concessions on other things in our agreement. Now he wants to go back on what he agreed, and he expects me to still hold up my concessions. Not happening.


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## Kearson (Jan 18, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Child support calculations are done based on gross pay. You cannot deduct property insurance & mortgage insurance. You can deduct health insurance that is deducted from your pay check.
> 
> Here is what I came up with…
> 
> ...


Insurance was the wrong word. I meant taxes, and yes that's allowed according to the calculator.

As for 50/50 custody, he doesn't want it. I will be hard pressed to get him to take the minimal time indicated in the agreement. He has no interest in doing 50/50 at all and has been very vocal about that. Frankly, if he doesn't want to do it, I don't want him doing it. I don't want my son spending 50% of his time getting ignored, or worse, being made to feel like an inconvenience because he exists. I'd rather tell my son that daddy is busy working and can't spend time with him than have him over there SEEING that his daddy doesn't give a crap.


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## Kearson (Jan 18, 2012)

Thor said:


> You may be shocked at some of the attitudes of the kids at private schools. My kids are at the lower financial end of their school, and they definitely knew that we were giving up things like fancy vacations and season ski lift tickets (we live within a couple of minutes of several world class ski areas). They watched classmates going to their other home in Hawaii on spring break, and they see kids driving a BMW to school.
> 
> So my kids always knew that future funding of their school was optional based on parents' discretion. Other kids whose parents have mega bucks see their private school as a given for people of their elevated class. Just like the spoiled rich kids don't appreciate the BMW they got for their 16th birthday, they don't appreciate the opportunity or cost of their education.
> 
> I strongly advise having requirements in the agreement so that you aren't railroaded into continuing to pay for private school if the father insists but the child is underperforming. Keep maximum flexibility for yourself in the agreement.


I definitely hadn't thought of this aspect of things. It is something I will give serious thought to before he heads to school. Thank you


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Kearson said:


> I never said he did. It's my debt, incurred before I ever met him. However, he agreed to pay the amount specified, and because of that generosity, I made concessions on other things in our agreement. Now he wants to go back on what he agreed, and he expects me to still hold up my concessions. Not happening.


OK, that was not clear at first. What concessions did you make that he expects you to keep?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Kearson said:


> Insurance was the wrong word. I meant taxes, and yes that's allowed according to the calculator.
> 
> As for 50/50 custody, he doesn't want it. I will be hard pressed to get him to take the minimal time indicated in the agreement. He has no interest in doing 50/50 at all and has been very vocal about that. Frankly, if he doesn't want to do it, I don't want him doing it. I don't want my son spending 50% of his time getting ignored, or worse, being made to feel like an inconvenience because he exists. I'd rather tell my son that daddy is busy working and can't spend time with him than have him over there SEEING that his daddy doesn't give a crap.


Mortgage interest and property taxes. So you are projecting these things for a property that you do not yet own. Is that right?

As long as your stbxh does not care to have your son more than 21% of the time you are good on that. I agree with your point of view. I was wondering if the 21% was your stbxh's decision or not.

Why are you looking at an agreement based on 2014 numbers with his income at $1400 and yours double that? 

Why not go with the here and now for calculation of interim support. 

Interim support would be him paying you: $277 a month in child support and $391 in spousal support for a total of $668 a month. (Santa Clara formula) based on his $1700 a month and you having 0 income.

There is that $700 a month you wanted. It's an easy to arrive at solution with no concessions, etc.

Won't your divorce take at least a year? So stretch it out until you graduate. then redo the numbers for your divorce settlement based on your actual incomes at the time.

Childsupport can be, and should be, recalculated every year or so as your incomes and situations change. So do it as it comes up instead coming up with ficticious scenarios about what might happen in 2014.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Trenton said:


> The courts will look at now though. They will see that she is going to school and she is caring for their son 80% of the time and that she left her job years ago in order to be the sole caregiver to their child.


Trenton, part of the issue here is a disconnect in that you (and I originally) are looking at the here and now. Kearson is talking about what will go down in 2014 after she graduates and has a job.

She has been married for less than 4 years. He stayed home for the first 2 years. She’s been at home less than 2 years and will be going to school… (question.. has Kearson been in school for the last 2 years?)

She is planning on living in her FIL’s home with her son until she graduates in 2014. Her stbxh also lives in the FIL’s home. She each would be considered to have their son 50% of the time since they live in the same home.

The 21% only starts in 2014 when she moves out. The child support only starts in 2014 when she moves out. She said that it will not be paid until then.

So she is looking at child support based on what it will be when she moves out in 2014. That is why she is using $1700 income for him and $3400 for herself… it’s 2014 income.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

*
He does not owe a penny on her student loans, so her trying to make him pay part of them is way too much. *

Technically...and legally....he doesn't. Morally he probably does. When I was in school, I hated taking loans.... but we were poor and raising 5 kids... and the money was always used for the family. Of course, I figured we'd be two income and pay it back as a family. Then we got divorced...and guess who owes on student loans? Not ex. 

So if she can disguise it to where he will help pay.... good for her!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SunnyT said:


> *
> He does not owe a penny on her student loans, so her trying to make him pay part of them is way too much. *
> 
> Technically...and legally....he doesn't. Morally he probably does. When I was in school, I hated taking loans.... but we were poor and raising 5 kids... and the money was always used for the family. Of course, I figured we'd be two income and pay it back as a family. Then we got divorced...and guess who owes on student loans? Not ex.
> ...


The reasoning behind student loans being the sole debt of the borrower/student is that the student is the one who benefits from the education. The ex-spouse does not.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> The reasoning behind student loans being the sole debt of the borrower/student is that the student is the one who benefits from the education. The ex-spouse does not.


It could be argued that he DOES benefit from this, as her income goes from 0 to 3400 per month, which reduces or eliminates his support payments to her...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

PBear said:


> It could be argued that he DOES benefit from this, as her income goes from 0 to 3400 per month, which reduces or eliminates his support payments to her...
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That could be argued. CA statute does allow for that argument. 

But the are few flies in the ointment here: 

1) This is a short term marriage of less than 4 years. Their of them will owe the other any spousal support once the divorce is final.

2) In CA, spousal support in short term marriages is short term, only for half the length of the marriage and only for rehabilitative purposes. She does not need spousal support for rehabilitative purposes as she can already earn twice as much as he can. Seems to me that he's the one who needs some kind of rehabilitative spousal support as he can only earn minimum wage.


2) Even if support were due, she has been unemployed for less than 2 years. She supported him through most of the marriage as he was a SAHD prior to her quiting work to go to school. 

3) She apparently does not require this education to earn twice what he is capable of earning. She seems to think that once she finishes school she will be making the same that she made before she started the school.

4) With the numbers she gave us, in 2014, once she has graducated and is back to work SHE will be paying him child support even if he only has their son 21% of the time.

Since he owes her no spousal support once she is working at the same income she made less than 2 years ago, he does not owe her any spousal support. So no, he does not benefit from this education as it saves him nothing.

There seems to be a presumption that he owes here support. Why? Becuase she's a woman?


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## Anubis (Jul 12, 2011)

As always, see an experienced lawyer who not only knows the state laws, but the local courts and how the judge she is assigned to tends to rule and interpret things (this can vary!)

As for student loan dept, it enjoys special status such as not being dischargable in bankruptcy as only the recipient benefits from the education. Again, consult your attorney.

And honestly, there shouldn't be any open ended education requirements. Both parties should do what they can for their childs education, but you don't want to wind up being held hostage to a lot of uncontrollable future circumstances that you wouldn't be if you were still happily married.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

My sense is that child support is fine. I do have a problem with support arragements so large that it benefits the parent as well as the child. I've known people who were paying $2k per month or so, many years ago; such an award is IMO outrageous. You could support a small family of $2k per month in tax free cash.

I don't think you should consider private school needs in the amount of cash you request. It is, at the end of the day, a luxury. You should investigate whether it would be cheaper to use the local public school and pay for day care separately.

Also, does your soon to be ex have no skills and that's why he works for minimum wage? Or does he have skilsl but is not motivated to use them? If the latter, you might see if you can get a vocational evaluation and then be ordered support based on his working at his potential.

While I don't think a guy should have to work his butt off to pay outrageous support, he should not bum along at minimum wage and struggle to provide anything. I second the notion that your much higher earnings may entitle him to child support even with little custody. At my old salary my ex would have been entitled to support even though I have 50% physical custody - just the way the formulas work.

Also, consider that he can only afford to pay something because he's living at home and working some overtime. What happens if his folks get fed up and boot him and/or all the extra hours disappear? Full time at minimum wage only works out to $1,000 per month after taxes, at most. If he actually has to support himself on that, how much do you think you will get?


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

I asked for $200 a month as a flat rate. My ex was working less then 20 hrs a week and still is. He tried to lower it, but the courts would not allow it. In all reality fair amount is $500 or more for one child, especially when they start driving. You should of lessened the spousal support and increased child support. You can modify child support once your alimony runs out. $200 is way too low and this is something I wished I did. My ex got off the hook, but I wanted nothing to do with him. He used illegal drugs, is abusive and a serial cheater. He hates his child, has nothing to do with her. Blocked her from his email and FB. He did write to her from his wife's account saying he's finally free from her now she's 18. 

When he use to see her- he'd always tell her I was stealing all his money and talked down about me. I never spoke a word to her about him. He's disgusting.

I remarried a few years later and my husband is absolutely wonderful. I'm the luckiest woman in the world! We both adore each other and he always puts my needs ahead of his. He still is with me after I became disabled in my mid 30's with a neck injury. My husband is my world! Hopefully you'll find a man like I did.

Good luck!


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## Kearson (Jan 18, 2012)

DTO said:


> I don't think you should consider private school needs in the amount of cash you request. It is, at the end of the day, a luxury. You should investigate whether it would be cheaper to use the local public school and pay for day care separately.


After seeing the state of public school, there is no way my son is going. I don't care if I have to work 4 jobs to make it happen. My son is going to private school.



DTO said:


> Also, does your soon to be ex have no skills and that's why he works for minimum wage? Or does he have skilsl but is not motivated to use them? If the latter, you might see if you can get a vocational evaluation and then be ordered support based on his working at his potential.


He chooses to work at a low wage. He has the education to work higher level office jobs (I paid for him to go to school during the first part of our marriage), but he doesn't want to have to 'dress up'. His low wage is completely of his own choosing.




DTO said:


> Also, consider that he can only afford to pay something because he's living at home and working some overtime. What happens if his folks get fed up and boot him and/or all the extra hours disappear? Full time at minimum wage only works out to $1,000 per month after taxes, at most. If he actually has to support himself on that, how much do you think you will get?


This will never happen. His father has been caring for him for years, and intends to do so even after he dies (there is a trust set up for the house with funds to care for expenses after my FIL dies). STBXH will never take care of himself. He will always live here unless he is in jail, or finds some woman stupid enough, and with enough money, to take care of him.

If he loses his job (or quits, which is more likely), his father will pay the support amount to keep him out of jail, if need be.

My goal is to be able to pay all expenses without child support, because I know that STBXH is a selfish child, and he'd quit out of spite in a heartbeat if he could come up with a good enough excuse. However, even though I will work toward not needing it, that doesn't mean I'm going to let him off the hook right out of the gate.

He chose this. I wanted to work things out, and he said he wasn't interested. I have no sympathy for him. I'm doing what I think is fair. If he doesn't like it, he can get a lawyer and we'll go to court and see what they say. If the court says he owes less, then fine, that's what it is.


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## Kearson (Jan 18, 2012)

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> I remarried a few years later and my husband is absolutely wonderful. I'm the luckiest woman in the world! We both adore each other and he always puts my needs ahead of his. He still is with me after I became disabled in my mid 30's with a neck injury. My husband is my world! Hopefully you'll find a man like I did.
> 
> Good luck!


I certainly hope so :smthumbup:


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Kearson,

You wanted a male perspective on this and so I will give it to you.

Let's summarize this from what 50% I read:

You make $3400/month
He makes $1700/month.
At the end of the Magic Child Support equation with 4 days of month of overnights, he has to pay $200/month.
You are angry/annoyed/miffed that he chooses to work a low paying job.
So. . .you pose the thread question.

Um. . .I don't know. . .I guess my "perspective" is I don't feel sorry for you, having been with an ex like you who tried to force me psychologically into higher paying job.

Apparently the law would agree with your stb-x and myself in many test cases.

One test case in NJ was a man who was a high paid attorney working in NY and hated the fast lane, trying to get his billable hours up, the whole crooked industry. He switched to being a violin teacher and went from a 300K income history to a 30K/year income history.

You can imagine the wife was none to happy. She sued for divorce. She tried to impute his income. She lost. Sometimes you are able to win on income imputation, but most of the time. . .the Abraham Lincoln Emancipation Proclamation holds up.

A man/father/husband doesn't exist to simply be an "earning machine" for the betterment of you, or even the betterment of his children.

You need to digest this fact and accept it:

The child support is a "Help" but it's not meant to maintain the lifestyle you were leading. You will need to look to other ways of balancing your checkbook rather than to dwell on the "injustice of child support guidelines" and so forth.

That's my perspective.

Good luck.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

More on the "male perspective":

Elegirl wrote this:



> Childsupport can be, and should be, recalculated every year or so as your incomes and situations change. So do it as it comes up instead coming up with ficticious scenarios about what might happen in 2014.


I am not so sure about this. On superficial value, I do agree with this. Every year submit tax returns and adjust child support accordingly.

Except, I don't think every time a spouse makes $5000 more or $5000 less (yes, both ways) should one party be altering the child support agreement.

Last year, my ex made more and I made less.

I did not petition the courts for a reduction.

There seems to be this, I don't know, "assumption" that the mother (usually who gets child support) is somehow a better fiduciary of monies than the father.

Why does that assumption exist?

Even if I did earn an extra $5000 last year and she stayed the same, why do I have to automatically turn some of it over to the ex-wife, who is assumingly going to spend it in a more thoughtful way? 

Why can't I put it in their college accounts? Or take them to Disney? Repaint a room of theirs? Or just save it for a rainy day?

I think yearly audits of ex-spouses just cause trouble. Each spouse is entitled to some financial privacy and an occasional windfall without them getting their grubby hands on it.

My ex recently took me back to court to demand exactly this. She lost (among 5 other points she petitioned the courts for).

All in all, I think you need to worry more about what you're doing and less about what he's doing.

Focus.

Don't be the *****y ex always in your ex's business.

You'll do better by the kids to just ask him to buy extras, contribute towards this or that, which will inevitably come up in your childrearing vs. trying to bank draft him like a gym membership.

Just my "perspective."


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

Scannerguard said:


> More on the "male perspective":
> 
> Elegirl wrote this:
> 
> ...


Child support sucks for all. It is rare to find 2 responsible, mature people who have best interest of kids at heart. The rules have to be so strict because of recipients who mess with the system and people who pay who mess with the system.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kearson (Jan 18, 2012)

Scannerguard said:


> Kearson,
> 
> You wanted a male perspective on this and so I will give it to you.
> 
> ...


You should have read the other 50%. I make nothing right now. I stay home with my son. The 3400/month is a projected amount based on average wages in my desired field of employment.

I didn't try to force him to do anything. He CHOSE to take those courses in school (and did very well in them). He could easily get a better paying job, but doesn't want to have to wear nice clothes. I don't care if he wants to work a low paying job. I'm just sick of him using his crappy wage as an excuse to back out of responsibility. He is constantly complaining about how he wishes he could make more money, etc. He's fishing for pity, and I honestly have none. He COULD make more money. He chooses not to.

I'm not looking for my STBXH to help me 'maintain the lifestyle I'm currently leading'. There's no way he could. We live in a huge, beautiful home with a pool, I stay home with my son, and we want for nothing material due to FIL's generosity. STBXH has no hope of ever keeping that up unless he wins the lottery (which I guess he kind of has, since FIL has basically resigned himself to taking care of STBXH until the end of forever).

But thanks for the input.


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## Kearson (Jan 18, 2012)

golfergirl said:


> Child support sucks for all. It is rare to find 2 responsible, mature people who have best interest of kids at heart. The rules have to be so strict because of recipients who mess with the system and people who pay who mess with the system.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank you.

Many of you are assuming that I'm just being mean to my STBXH and trying to railroad him. If I don't have something in writing that is legally enforceable, he will back-pedal like mad. This man is the King of promising something and then conveniently forgetting he said anything. He 'plays dumb' about everything. 

The suggestion to just 'work things out as you go' will only have me paying for everything and him nothing (which I'm actually fine with if he wants to sign over his parental rights. I'd rather not have to deal with him in the future, but I know THAT'S not happening.) Besides, I'm not going to spend the rest of my son's childhood having to ask my STBXH for money for every little thing. He is a control freak, and I'm not going to give him that power over me.


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## Kearson (Jan 18, 2012)

Scannerguard said:


> All in all, I think you need to worry more about what you're doing and less about what he's doing.
> 
> Focus.
> 
> Don't be the *****y ex always in your ex's business.



I'm not in my STBXH's business. I unfriended him from Facebook, and when he tries to complain to me about work, I tell him I don't want to hear it...because I don't. I want to interact with him as little as possible now and in the future. He disgusts me. I don't give a hoot what he does (or who he does it with) as long as he's good to our son and does what he's supposed to do (whatever that ends up being in the end).


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

Kearson said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Many of you are assuming that I'm just being mean to my STBXH and trying to railroad him. If I don't have something in writing that is legally enforceable, he will back-pedal like mad. This man is the King of promising something and then conveniently forgetting he said anything. He 'plays dumb' about everything.
> 
> The suggestion to just 'work things out as you go' will only have me paying for everything and him nothing (which I'm actually fine with if he wants to sign over his parental rights. I'd rather not have to deal with him in the future, but I know THAT'S not happening.) Besides, I'm not going to spend the rest of my son's childhood having to ask my STBXH for money for every little thing. He is a control freak, and I'm not going to give him that power over me.


I have an ex that used child support as a budgeting tool. Got fired? First thing to go - child support. Not a reduced amount to get on his feet - all done. But he flew Canada to Florida for a cruise 2 months after. He found out he could save $70 a month by cutting kids off health plan. Done - cancelled.

Not all child support payors suck but mine sure did. All these things he did were breaking our agreement - but it cost time and money to get it enforced.

He kept telling kids how he over paid me child support and took me to court. Imagine his surprise when it was increased by several hundred dollars a month.

There are many good men who provide well for their kids and a few doozies who don't.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kearson (Jan 18, 2012)

golfergirl said:


> I have an ex that used child support as a budgeting tool. Got fired? First thing to go - child support. Not a reduced amount to get on his feet - all done. But he flew Canada to Florida for a cruise 2 months after. He found out he could save $70 a month by cutting kids off health plan. Done - cancelled.
> 
> Not all child support payors suck but mine sure did. All these things he did were breaking our agreement - but it cost time and money to get it enforced.
> 
> ...


Something like this is a big fear for me. STBXH is very selfish and can 'justify' anything. I would love nothing more than to cut him out of my life and be done with him. But my marriage is over, so this is no longer about me. This is about my son and what's best for him. 

STBXH says he's going to take our agreement to a lawyer to review (I don't really believe this, but whatever). I, however am taking the agreement to a lawyer. I need someone with the legal knowledge who is not invested in this to review the agreement to make sure I am not being unfair (either to STBXH or to myself and my son).

Am I angry? Heck yeah. Would I love to stick it to STBXH for being a selfish douche? I'd be a liar if I said no. But because I know that I feel this way, I make a very conscious effort to be as fair as possible. Hopefully this will work out.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Eh, I was a little harsh on you yesterday, I think, before I even read the replies so I am going to back down a bit.

I think "Child Support" is a bad terminology.

I think "Child Rearing Financial Assistance" would be a better term.

I mean, what mother (or father) who receives "child support" actually think the check is large enough to support the kids? "Support" is such a relative term too. . .you say "private school is a must", others say "4 year college is a must". . .kid has got to have an x-box like the rest of his friends.

Yet, there are women out there who go into divorce thinking that marriage is a kind of convertible annuity, that you can always convert your marriage into a monthly check.

I think when we, as a society, choose that vernacular, child support, it is very misleading. You will get "assistance", like "energy assistance" or "Food stamp assistance" but I doubt there is a woman here that believes they can totally support their kids on child support allocations.

I think once you accept that in your head, you can move on better.

And again, if you are wise enough, rather than cutting off contact with him, you'll maintain a relationship.

A request to pick up diapers, or buy him school clothes, or pay for his soccer club will generally (not that there aren't unsympathetic fathers still) be better received than an increase in wage garnishment.

If you would play your cards right, I think you could squeeze a few more dollars out of him every month since he lives with his father.

My ex does. .. a haircut here or there, I bought fishing supplies last week for one of the sons, I may pick up a dress belt for a concert, or I contributed to a soccer fundraiser, see?

Good luck.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Can you see how it could work the opposite way?

I could go into court and give the judge a grocery list of what I bought and cry that she should have paid for ALL of that stuff.

But no judge is going to listen to that (nor should he/she).

This is why child support modification requests, and attempting to "mine for dollars", unless a really significant event happens, I think is bad policy, like the scenario golfer girl described. . .that happens a lot - the man goes in "mining for dollars" (reduction) and then the Judge hands him his gluteus maximus on a plate.

Now, in 16 months, my youngest stops daycare so my child support automatically lowers at that point. I think that's significant - it will drop by like $400/month and we will almost be "even steven." My atty. was smart enough to write it into the Order/decree.

Again, I think it's best for both parties to work towards a settlement where as little as possible money exchanges hands on a monthly basis. Too many variables and hard feelings.


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## Crazy8 (Jun 1, 2012)

Here's honestly what I think. 

Child support is ridiculously high for men most times. In this case, it's not though. It's either spot on or even low. I don't know enough about your story to make that assessment. 

Kearny, you said that $200 a month was the figure. While others think that's low (and it is), when you include it with the $500 check he has to write over for maintenance, that brings the figure up to $700 a month. Depending on the price of your house, that's almost another mortgage. I don't necessarily disagree with the numbers in this case, but I have heard of other men who got reamed when it came to maintenance and child support. This didn't happen in your case because you actually understand that if you break him, you get no help whatsoever. That's actually the most reasonable I've seen it. But, the normal unreasonableness is why men get to be dead beat dads. It's actually cheaper for them to just leave the state and never see their kid. The system actually makes it harder for them to stay and be a dad. That's my whole point. 

Who figures all of this? I heard of a divorce case where the woman was seeking $5,000 for maintenance in the divorce settlement. $500 to me is perfect is still low, but it's because of your reasonableness. It's help. It's not doing it for you. I like that. But $5,000? Are you kidding me? That's more than a lot of couples make per month! And for what? Because someone was stupid enough to marry you? It's things like that that I believe mess up the system.

A lot of you have heard of Terrell Owens. His child support payments are somewhere near $45,000 a month. Why? What is your child doing that requires $45,000 a month? Of course this is for 4 children with different moms, but the point still stands. This is supposed to be child support. Not the lottery.

Here's what I believe. Get the bank records. Look at how much was actually put toward the children on average. If it's $200, great! If it's $2,000, then great! This includes half the groceries or whatever. The point is that it needs to be a realistic number and not some arbitrary number from left field somewhere (like $10,000 a month) just because the dad makes a ton of money. 

I'm griping, but I want to be clear that I'm not griping at you, Kearson. I'm just griping at "the system" and how things are figured. With diapers, food, and everything, kids are expensive. But it's about the kids. It's not about what the woman can get.


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## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

I think that the money allotted for child expenses should be greater than the spousal support. Babies can't work. Just my two cents.


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## Kearson (Jan 18, 2012)

Crazy8 said:


> Here's honestly what I think.
> 
> Child support is ridiculously high for men most times. In this case, it's not though. It's either spot on or even low. I don't know enough about your story to make that assessment.
> 
> Kearny, you said that $200 a month was the figure. While others think that's low (and it is), when you include it with the $500 check he has to write over for maintenance, that brings the figure up to $700 a month. Depending on the price of your house, that's almost another mortgage. I don't necessarily disagree with the numbers in this case, but I have heard of other men who got reamed when it came to maintenance and child support. This didn't happen in your case because you actually understand that if you break him, you get no help whatsoever. That's actually the most reasonable I've seen it. But, the normal unreasonableness is why men get to be dead beat dads. It's actually cheaper for them to just leave the state and never see their kid. The system actually makes it harder for them to stay and be a dad. That's my whole point.


I agree that child support can be extremely ridiculous in certain situations. As I have said previously, I'm not trying to break the man, I just want him to contribute fairly, whatever that ends up being.

I want to clarify, The $500/month spousal support and the child support, health insurance support, and education support do NOT occur at the same time. My STBXH and I still live together with his FIL in his FIL's home. 

The spousal support is paid immediately and occurs for 17 months (we adjusted the agreement from 20 months). The child support does not kick in until I move out on my own, which wouldn't be until mid to late 2014. Health insurance for our son won't be an issue until I start working in 2014, so he doesn't have to worry about that until then. My son will not be going to school until 2014, so he does not have to worry about those expenses until then either.

He has 2 years before the 'worst' of this kicks in. He pays no rent, has no car payment, no credit card bills, no student loans, etc. He only has to pay for gas to get to work, his prepaid cell phone, and any other incidentals (like his cigarettes, fast food that he insists on eating, and beer that he drinks every single day). He has no intention of ever living on his own and supporting his own household.

Considering his living situation and expenses, I don't find our agreement to be unreasonable. If, in the future, I'm making a boat load of money, and he's still making $10/hr and he wants to go back to court to get an adjustment, he can. There is a stipulation for that in the agreement.

In 'normal' situations, I know the court takes a lot from men to the point that they have trouble maintaining their own household, and that really sucks. This is not the case for my STBXH. 

Paying this support is not going to make him lose his car, make him homeless, make him go without food, etc. At the worst it will mean that he can't eat Del Taco everyday and drink 2 12pks of beer every night. And I'm sorry, but I do not feel bad about that.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Scannerguard said:


> More on the "male perspective":
> 
> 
> Elegirl said:
> ...


Let's see... $5000 more/less a year

Let's say that child support is 10% - 20% of income

So that would be between a $42 - $83 difference.

If the calculations for the base part of child support were automatic then this would not be a big deal to recalculate. Just turn in your tax forms every year. The numbers are plugged in and you’re done.

The states make this all way too complicated. There exist software packages used by the court that calculate the base child support. I’ve used them. They work great. This would be so easy and cost effective.

If you have to pay an attorney and go to court for this adjustment it would be ridiculous to adjust for this amount.

Right now it's far too complicated. For example if the payee loses their job for no fault of their own the payee has to pay an attorney (or go represent themself) and pay court fees to get it reduced. Generally this is exactly the time when the payee does not have money to spend on court fees.

During the time my ex was paying child support his salary skyrocketed. My son would tell me from time to time how much he was making. (I never asked my son to look. But he'd see his dad's papers on his desk and read them. I have a 'weird' son.  ) But I never went up to have it adjusted up. I could have had twice the support I was getting. But the expense and hassel was not worth it. The fighting between my ex and me was too harmful for my son. So I never did it. 

IMHO, my son did suffer some because of this because had we not divorced he would have had more things like good camps, more music lessons, a tutor that he would have greatly benefitted from, etc. But since we were divorced he did not get as much of those things as I would have liked. 

His father is the kind of father who will not spend anything on this son. My son plays 4 instruments. He’s hugely talented in music. I bought him all of his instruments and paid his lessons. His father would not pay a penny towards those things for his son. That despite the fact that his father has a guitar that he spent $5,000 on. His dad is constantly taking vacations and traveling. He’s a well-to-do, stingy father.


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