# just need a mans point of view



## MrsVain (Feb 1, 2009)

{This is a continuation of my other post, to get more information, please read my other post, warning in advance it is very long. http://talkaboutmarriage.com/considering-divorce-separation/3922-complete-loss-long-vent.html}

This situation i have been in has been ongoing and on a downward slope for the past 8.5 years. he wasnt this bad when we got married. he used to at least "act" like he gave a sh*t about my feelings or my wishes/desires/dreams. in the beginning, we had long talks about what we wanted for the future, for the children, for ourselves and our lives. we talked about how we thought we would obtain all this things (house, cars, etc) and what we would do to better our lives. and even though we did not argee on everything, we had the same dream and ideals (or so i thought). 

after we got married, i worked hard to achieve all those dreams/desires/wishes. i was on baby #4, finishing college, working part-time, had baby in Oct, graduated in Dec. 01. i was blessed to be able to quit my part time job and stay home with baby and kids for 2 years. but every day i still worked hard to have a happy house and home. made supper every night so it was ready when he got home from work, house was clean, children were clean, and keep everyone happy. And i loved every minute of it. And in his defense he was working hard to achieve them too. then i went back to work, we bought this house and i honestly believe that is when the "real" trouble started. while i believe that owning a house means keeping it up and running, working on improving the yard (this yard is 3 city lots whereas the old house had only a spacious back yard), and fixing up the house (it is an older house and just needs alot of TLC), and making it nice and try to keep it clean (it is sooo much bigger then our rent house of 3 br, 2small baths, and small rooms, this one is 5 big bedrooms, 3 full sized baths, huge kitchen, living and dining rooms.) and still raise healthy, happy and well developed children; i dont believe he feels or believes the same way. And while he is still working a job, he slowly or suddenly stopped doing all the other things needed to keep the dream alive. 

The main thing that has changed is that i still believe in the same things i did before we got married and put it into motion, whereas he is content with the way things are. he is perfectly happy to have the toliet in the shower, or not having a fence, or wood pile all over the yard, or the way the house is--ie: windows not painted and clauking falling off, trash in the yard, shrubs needing trimming, or dying. He also seems to be okay if the children get into trouble, talk hateful, fight and do poorly in school. It also doesnt bother him if the engine locks up because he didnt put oil in it and the truck sits in the yard and becomes a lawn ornament. This is a side i havent seen and was unprepared for because of all the things he said before and the way he acted before. Now i find out so many things that i cant tolerate about him; it doesnt bother him to walk over the trash that blows in the yard, or even broken glass (which is not only a eye sore but a danger to the children as we all run barefooted), if the sink drips or doesnt work, he is perfectly content to just go to another sink. he ignores the mold in the shower or the holes in the walls (i put up boards as a "temporary" fix where someone had taken out small wall electric heaters in the bathroom before we bought it, he would have just left the hole exposed) or the tiles falling off in the upstairs bathroom. Not only does he ignore them but he gets downright upset if i ask him to fix anything. Grant it, this is his first house too, but he doesnt care to care for it. 

seeing all this, and taking the weight and the responsiblity onto myself to get it done; on top of all the other responsiblities i do every day and the amount of work it takes just to keep the house semi sort of clean (the one thing he does get mad and verbalized about) plus having another baby making it 5 children to displine, teach, and love. I am overwhelmed. I cant do it by myself and when ever i ask him for help he either plain azz doesnt do it, complains about doing or just down right gets mad, angry or acts like an azz. I also realized that it is not just the house, the yard, the vehicle he acts this way with, but with our relationship also. 

Before i was happy doing things for him, i wanted to make him happy, i loved hearing him laugh. I wouldnt mind doing it because i wanted to do it for him. i didnt think of payback or rewards. i believe that you do little things just to make the other person feel loved, and cared for because you love them. i worked hard on making sure we communicated, did things together as a family and respected each other. when i saw he was insecure, i worked hard on building up his ego. when he told me something he wanted to do or try (like starting a house painting company) i supported him. i never bad mouthed, belittled or critized him. i understood it was hard for him to show his emotions (childhood issues and luggage), i tried showing him what it meant to be loved and cared for by showing him and treating him that way--ie i love to snuggle, i would rub his back, or hold his hand, or just go up and hug/kiss him. if i didnt agree with something--ie, the way he displined the children or the way he worked on something--i never said anything in front of the kids or while he was working, but would try hard to explain to him why i disagreed later and without making him think he did something wrong or was to blame. i am alway quick to admit i am not perfect, that my way isnt the only way and to compromise. (i used to beg him to tell me and not hold it inside so i can try to fix it)

However, in the last 4 years, he has given nothing back. he takes and takes and takes, and never returns the favor. he expects gratification and acknowledgement for every little thing he does (which i provided daily) but he nevers tells or shows us the same. my holy cow! even when i am crying, he cant even comfort me in some shape or form. i have stood by his side during his major f*ck up, 2 dwi's and 2 driving on revocations (each with a 7 day jail time), making ends met uncomplainly while he pays all those fines, i have tried to help his very disfunctional sisters, until it started affecting my own family negitively (my children come first and his sisters never learn and change)

last year, it came to a point. i was so overwhelmed, i just couldnt do it all and worse of all, it started affecting my children. i asked him, begged him, i cried, i pleaded for him to help me, for him to do something, anything to take just a little weight off me. i got nothing. he did nothing, and continued to make it harder on me by putting more weight on me. we fought, we talked, i gave him ultimations (2 actually last year) Still no change. it got to the point that i was just barely getting thru the days. in december, i was in a fog. i was just going thru the motions for the children. I dont even remember most days. all happiness and joy cessed to exist for me, i was like a walking zombie and i cried many many nights after the children were in bed. many things came out last year that had been simmering for a long time, other issues came out that i hadnt even been aware of.

A major one i still have major problems is all this time, all these years, i was working so hard to keep the communication (i am a strong believer of talking this out, getting it out in the open, facing it head on, and resolving it) so that our marriage would be stronger, telling him my sorrows, my fears, my desires/wants/dreams. explaining how he hurt me and what he could do so that he wouldnt hurt me again or to make up for it. explaining how to make our marriage work or better and stronger. All these years, i am talking, and last year he admitted that he never remembers a single thing i say. all the balls fell into place. it all made perfect sense after that. here i had been beating myself up, not understanding why things were happening and getting worse. i mean my god, i told him what i wanted in detailed steps. ie-just sometimes when you come home and the house is clean, can you just say hey you cleaned house, it looks nice. or sometimes it would be about working on the house, could you please fix the tiles in the shower upstairs, the kids really need to be able to use it, 7 people and 1 shower is a little hard, to this day that shower is still not usable. And i would think it was me. Maybe i was blowing it out of preportion (only to have friends, and family say they would be upset about the same thing) Maybe i didnt explain things well enough (i told him one day, i know i blow up easy but i get over it just as easy. especially if you just grap me and kiss me, i completely forget what i was mad about in the first place.....and yes, i really am that easy, he never does it, not one single time in 8.5 years) i would think maybe he doesnt care for me. maybe he doesnt love me. and i would talk (yes, talk not yell, cry or scream) to him again. I was so confused. And come to find out that everything i thought was resolved, actually never really was, because he just forgot all that was said; which explains why he walks around like nothing happened.

i feel hurt, confused and even empty now. i guess i do think how would i react if he asked or told me. If someone told me, hey i really dont like it when you do this, but if you just do that, i could live with it. then i try extra hard to do that thing and not do the this thing. So i am thinking, if he really loved me, wouldnt he listen and make an valid effort to remember what i am telling him. i am not asking for all of it, because i can go on and on (until someone tells me to shut up which he never does either) but just one simple thing. which i told him that too (said hey i know i just gave you like 10 things or examples, but if you just did ONE of them, i could deal with all the others) But my husband doesnt even bother to TRY to remember, or bother to Try to put anything in action. Or make any effort on his own to make things better. (which is the other thing that really bothers me) 

SO WHAT AM I TO DO? i cant just ignore everything the way he does. i cant just not pay the bills, or worry about the kids, or leave the house unfixed, or not tend to the vehicles. those are the kind of things that i cant tolerate. i am not built that way; besides the fact that if left ignored they only get worse. i cant just go on acting like everything is fine and dandy, when they are not. I cant just go on trying and giving, and giving in or giving up when i am to only one actually doing. On top of that, i still want to better myself, my kids and my lives. there are a lot of things i want to do, i dream of doing, and work hard to achieve those things. 

i believe that david and i are no longer on the same page. and while i would be willing to work to fix that, he does not. (proven by his own actions and the things he has said and done in the past 3 years or so). I dont think we want the same thing out of life and for our children. i continue to try, learn, change and adapt, while he does not. And even if i could deal with that, i would still want to take care of what we do have, while he will not. (again proven in the last 3 years or so). lLife is too short to be angry, and unhappy. before i know it, my kids will be all grown and gone and possibly angry and unhappy also. Just for that reason alone, i will not tolerate it. it is not acceptable for me to live that way, and i dont think he will do anything to change it. (proven again)

AND THAT IS WHY I AM AT SUCH A LOSS AT WHAT TO DO.

LOL, sorry this is so long. I hope this explains why i have those feeling. yes, i regonized they are generated by me. there are my hopes, and my dreams, my values, and morals, my beliefs and expectations that are not being met or supported by my husband. A marriage is a job being worked on constatantly and daily by both people. Each depending on the other to fulfill some basic need, and returning it whole heartedly and gladly. Each working on keeping the other happy and having the respect towards one another. and when it comes down to it, just caring and giving a sh*t about the other person. If given to me, i return it 10 fold. i dont think it is too much to ask to have my husband support and care and love and honor and all that...not when i give back more then i recieve happy and with a smile on my face.

I am 100% against divorce, but i honestly dont know of what to do. The way things are going, divorce seems inevidable. If he would just give even just a small amount, i could hold on longer. I hate the thought of distroying my childrens lives and blissful world. Although i am not sure why i am still holding on, besides my religion and my belief that divorce is wrong. There just doesnt seem to be an alternative outcome.

So can some guys out there tell me why he acts this way and give me some advice on how i can talk to him that would actually get some results?


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

As a guy, I can tell you that these circumstances aren’t isolated to guys. The story you tell is mine, in reverse. 

My wife pulled away from the marriage, and responsibilities that come with it. I tried over the course of years to carry the team – and encourage her to re-engage as partners. Encouragement became outright asking, then came begging, then demanding. Then I simply stopped caring.
Despite how dire things got, to the point of nearly losing our house – she did nothing. She assumed that I would figure it out, because I always had previously, so things couldn’t possibly have been as bad as I painted them. Of course, she chose to think that instead of actually looking at what we brought in monthly versus what needed to go out.

In her case, she had actually abandoned all responsibility outside of the welfare of the children for so long, that the thought of taking on _anything_ else, became completely overwhelming.

Your husband sounds overwhelmed. Work may be like a sanctuary compared to being home, and confronted with all of the things he _isn’t_ addressing there.

Are there any neurological factors that you are aware of? Such as depression, or ADHD?

Can you still communicate or has he withdrawn from you completely? If you can talk reasonably, ask him what he wants. What would make him happy? What does he think would make your life together happier? If he can engage in those kinds of discussions, you have lots of options. If he can not, will not or you suspect that he has withdrawn from the relationship with you to find fulfillment in another one, confront it. You simply cannot function, let alone heal or prosper under those kinds of circumstances.


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## martino (May 12, 2008)

You both need a VACATION


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## MrsVain (Feb 1, 2009)

martino said:


> you both need a vacation


lmao, yes, i can agree to that!!!!


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## MrsVain (Feb 1, 2009)

Deejo, although our storys are the same, and i am not trying to say yours is not as important as mine because god knows i understand how hard it is to carry all the weight and responsiblilites. The difference is that he is the MAN!! and i am "sappose" to be the weaker sex. Please dont get me wrong, i dont believe any one person should have to handle it ALL and by themselves. it takes 2 people to get married and it takes 2 people to make a marriage work. nor am i big on the his jobs/her job crap (i had no brothers and worked with my father doing wood, etc every day) But i do believe as a man, he should be carrying me and not the other way around.

I feel for you, because you were taking care of business and responsiblities. And i feel like your wife is wrong in assume you can handle everything that comes up by yourself. And honestly i dont understand if she depends on you so much, and believes/allows that everything you do will be taking care of; then why didnt she believe you when you said things were bad? I mean if you handle the bills and tell her we dont have enough money and you either need to quit spending or get a part time job, why wouldnt she understand that things were bad? I do understand what you mean, that by not taking ANY responiblity, she could feel overwhelmed with the problems arising. And i also understand that her dependancy can be trying. But as i said before, it takes both people in a relationship and a marriage and a family doing work. I hope she will regonize that you are a great man and a wonderful husband and be able to overcome her issues to help you continue to be that.



> Your husband sounds overwhelmed. Work may be like a sanctuary compared to being home, and confronted with all of the things he _isn’t_ addressing there.


Okay, that kind of makes sense. I do believe he uses his job to escape. my first thought after reading this was "How in the world can HE be overwhelmed if he is not doing anything" but after reading it and reading what you said about your wife, i understand what you are trying to say. and that makes sense.



> Are there any neurological factors that you are aware of? Such as depression, or ADHD?


No, there are not. Besides possibly his messed up childhood, and his lack of give a d*mn. But i am sure some therepist could find something. I am not big on blaming everything wrong in your life on some kind of mental disablity. But if the had ADHD when we were growing up, i could see him being told he has it. Honestly, it is just a difference in upbringing. whereas as my parents are still together, and believe as i do (if not even more so) and his parents are divorced and cared only for themselves, moved often, and didnt take care of anything, never had anything, and chosed the "easy" way when it came to everything. But then again, he was taken away when he was 10ish and not really with them his whole life. Plus he is not educated as i am. he does have plenty of common sense but none when it comes to relationships and emotions or feelings. He has no desire to further educate himself, no matter what the learning can be from. whereas i do. And yes, i have taken all this into effect and have lived with it all these years but he has been with me for longer then he has been with any of his family and i just cant do it anymore.



> Can you still communicate or has he withdrawn from you completely? If you can talk reasonably, ask him what he wants. What would make him happy? What does he think would make your life together happier? If he can engage in those kinds of discussions, you have lots of options. If he can not, will not or you suspect that he has withdrawn from the relationship with you to find fulfillment in another one, confront it.


 i completely agree and that is where i am now. searching for another way to confront it and make it work. Yes, we still communicate. But i feel like it doesnt do any good. Even before i found out that he doesnt remember anything i say, i felt like it wasnt getting us any where. I could askk him what he wants, and what would make him happy, but usually i get he is happy and has what he wants. And if i try to dig deeper i get silence. which is also what i get when i ask him what does he want from this marriage, for the kids or from me in general. Like your wife, all his needs have been taken care of so he doesnt think of what to do for other people, mainly me. the one person he should be thinking of the most, right!?!

he is not the one that has withdrawn from me, i have withdrawn from him. after talking and getting nowhere, after beggin and pleading for help because i cant deal with it all, after telling him i was going to have a nervous breakdown, and threatening to leave him, i still got absoluately nothing. after getting angry and so frustrated i cry at least once a week in bed after the children go to sleep, and he cant even comfort me. i hurt so much, i withdrawn from him. i go on everyday like he is not there, because i dont think he will be for much longer. it wont be him leaving me, it will be me leaving him.



> You simply cannot function, let alone heal or prosper under those kinds of circumstances.


 And this is where i am at also. it finally hit me that all those issues, and problems i thought had been worked out to realize that they hadnt been resolved at all, just pushed under the rug. After 8 years of little things, and big things, of compremising or just chosing to either ignore it or get over it; that pile under the rug has gotten so big you trip over it every day. And it cant be ignored any longer. 

i just dont know how to explain all this to him or if he even cares. if he doesnt remember anything i tell him, then why bother even trying to talk it out. if years of loving him and supporting him doesnt show him how to love in return, then i dont know what else to do. if begging him to do just one thing because i am so overwhelmed i cant deal with anymore doesnt move him into action, then i dont know what will. But i do know that if something doesnt move him into action, then i will cut my loses and run. if i have to do everything by myself, then i dont need his baggage holding me down and hurting me everyday.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

I hope you are able to work out circumstances that benefit you.

In my case, I left. She wouldn't change. She wouldn't work with me in counseling. There was no partnership. There was no intimacy. We were great as parents and in raising our kids, but there was nothing between us. My staying, continued to make her life easy - and mine miserable. She now has no choice but to address the very issues that I begged her to deal with over years.


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