# She Won't End the Affair or the Marriage



## totallyconfused (Mar 20, 2009)

Sigh,

I've posted a few times over the past year, but here's the current summary.

Married, 2 young kids. She cheated for 6 years until I caught her with one guy (also married with kids). We went to counseling for 7 months. She didn't concede much an pointed out all my flaws.

Figured out in December that she was still talking to the guy (who's also unemployed) and saw him once (briefly, only to talk) in December. (I'm pretty sure about my facts because I've figured out a couple ways to monitor her.) She gave me the I don't love you speech.

She lost her job shortly thereafter. Marriage counselor suggested we just try to maintain the status quo for now, since we can't afford more counseling. I said then I'd leave her if she lied again. I said what I really needed in life was completely and total honesty. She said she understood.

She hasn't seen the guy (to talk or for sex) until today, while I'm traveling. I think she only met him to talk, but I haven't confirmed that yet. So, she's lying again.

I think I'm done. I just need to meet with a lawyer to tell me whether to hold on until she gets a job or just be done with it.

What's with this compulsion to cheat? I've asked her whether she wants a divorce, but she says no, for the kids. Yet she thinks it's ok for me to provide for her while she cheats. I just can't fathom how someone could betray someone like that.


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## created4success (Apr 9, 2010)

totallyconfused said:


> Sigh,
> 
> She hasn't seen the guy (to talk or for sex) until today, while I'm traveling. I think she only met him to talk, but I haven't confirmed that yet. So, she's lying again.
> 
> ...


*What do you WANT to do?*

If she won't admit her responsibility in the matter, even though she want's to stay together for the kids (and money, perhaps), it doesn't seem like there's much you can do.

I would encourage you to reconcile, but there doesn't seem to be much you can work with here.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I agree. She's a compulsive liar and cheater. Give your kids a better role model.

Send her on her way. But the kids stay with you.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> What's with this compulsion to cheat?...I just can't fathom how someone could betray someone like that.


Some insight that might give you a direction to find an answer...How Affairs Start

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Now playing: Little River Band - It's A Long Way There
via FoxyTunes


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Tanelorn makes an excellent point--that is generally "How Affairs Start" and in your instance I do believe that is PART of the reason for the compulsive cheating. 

I do honestly believe this is much, much more to the situation here though, including possible mental illness, clearly unhealthy ideas about commitment and fidelity, and from what I can see an inability and unwillingness to face herself, be personally responsible, and work on her own issues. 

I'll be blunt. I don't blame you. I think I'd be done too. DONE, done! Health problems or no...job or no...I think I'd be outta there. As I said to you back a few months ago, part of the COST of her choice to continuously NOT be faithful to you is that she no longer gets the benefit of your health care or financial support. She's a fully-grown adult and perfectly capable of providing her own income and health care coverage. If not--if chooses to be untruthful to you while dependent on you--it's a shame that the natural consequence of her choice is to have no health care and no income but it was HER CHOICE to do so!!

Can you believe this is coming out of my mouth?  

I think I might recommend considering a legal separation, just basically as a last ditch effort to give her a wake up call and some time for counseling--but honestly she's had that time. It's just that I honestly hate divorce.


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## jessi (Feb 11, 2009)

I think you are thinking the right way, she isn't being honest with you and she certainly doesn't respect you....
She is being selfish and doesn't seem to have a problem telling you lies when she needs to cover up her activities.
I would separate and tell her when she is ready to grow up and accept responsibility in the relationship problems you would be willing to discuss working on your marriage, until she wakes up and smells the coffee I think the writing is on the wall.....
You deserve more than you are getting.......
Take a stance and see what happens...


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## created4success (Apr 9, 2010)

jessi said:


> She is being selfish and doesn't seem to have a problem telling you lies when she needs to cover up her activities.
> I would separate and tell her when she is ready to grow up and accept responsibility in the relationship problems you would be willing to discuss working on your marriage, You deserve more than you are getting.......Take a stance and see what happens...


J: Sound insights. 

Set your boundaries and go from there.


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## totallyconfused (Mar 20, 2009)

I'm done. Meeting with a lawyer tomorrow and a lawyer early next week. Hope to file by the end of the week.

I figured out when I got home that she met the guy only for lunch, but then I figured out she had a one-night stand with a second guy a couple of years ago (who keeps asking), is having chat sex with a third guy, and is just lying low until she gets a job and has more options. Plus she's enjoying being a vindictive *****.

I can't believe how different she is from the woman I thought I married. And I can't believe I'm getting divorced. I hate the idea of divorce. I made a vow, for Pete's sake. I just hope there are better women out there, still available. Honesty, fidelity, intimacy, love. Is that so hard?


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## feylovelyheart (Jun 13, 2009)

I understand what you have been through. I know how it feels. Although I can't say that my husband is cheated on me. He never goes out or meet anyone (maybe once to meet his female friends). but he's constantly chatting with them in internet. He will spend most of his time talking to the girls he met online. sometimes he even tells them that he is single (although he is married with kid).

I think when people start cheating, it will be hard for them to stop. they might stop but they will be adventually doing it again. For me, cheating is almost addicted. Apparently, I found many cases that once they cheat, they can't stop. Therefore, it is hard to trust them. 

Sometimes I don't understand why do people cheat. I guess they have so many excuses in doing it. 

I understand that a divorce is your only option now. I am sure that you have tried everything you could do to make your marriage works, but sometimes you just feel that enough is enough. 

I am sure that there are plenty of women who are faithful out there. You just have to find them. 

I hope you will the happiness that you are looking for.

Be strong and hope things are going well for you in the future.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

tc, if you just look around at all the posts here from betrayed wives, you'll see there are TONS of women out there who want nothing more than a man who will stay with them and not cheat. You'll be fine. Chalk it up as a learning experience: the one you tried on, before you found the right one.


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## totallyconfused (Mar 20, 2009)

I appreciate all the replies.

I'm really having a rough time getting through the weekend. I went from angry and empowered yesterday, to resigned and relatively happy this morning, to despairing again this afternoon. Tried to call a couple of friends who know, but no one was reachable.

I'm trying to stay focused.

Monday: meeting with the second lawyer (who even the first lawyer recommended).
Tuesday: meeting with my minister.
Wednesday: who knows. Perhaps that's the day I'll tell her.

I have a plan and that gives me strength, but I also feel like I'm scheduling my own firing squad.


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## created4success (Apr 9, 2010)

totallyconfused said:


> I appreciate all the replies.
> 
> I'm really having a rough time getting through the weekend. I went from angry and empowered yesterday, to resigned and relatively happy this morning, to despairing again this afternoon. Tried to call a couple of friends who know, but no one was reachable.
> 
> ...


TC: (disregard my post in the GPS thread, sorry) Let us know how things go; and remember as cheesy as it sounds, we're here for you and pulling for 'ya (some may even be praying, like your minister). Hope your week turns out well in spite of what you're dealing with!


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

totallyconfused said:


> I'm really having a rough time getting through the weekend. I went from angry and empowered yesterday, to resigned and relatively happy this morning, to despairing again this afternoon. Tried to call a couple of friends who know, but no one was reachable.
> 
> I'm trying to stay focused.
> 
> ...


totallyconfused~

One of the BIGGEST things that people lose when there is infidelity is what I can "the illusion." It's the illusion that "that happens to other people but not us." It's the illusion that "our love is special and above all that." It's the illusion that you are safe, loved and accepted by your spouse. It is the illusion of a happy family. It is the illusion of a loving marriage that lasts forever. It's the illusion of "we'll always work it out." It's the illusion of something like "This is the only wo/man I'll ever have sex with" or "Our sex is special (maybe sacred) now because we're married." When there is infidelity, not only is trust lost, but also that illusion of acceptance, love, and being only for each other. Oddly enough that illusion can be harder to lose than the actual "affair" sometimes! 

Again, I would point out that there appears to be possibly some deeper issues here (like mental illness, clearly unhealthy ideas about commitment and fidelity, and from what I can see an inability and unwillingness to face herself, be personally responsible, and work on her own issues) but one thing that sort of stands out to me is that usually--not EVERY time but usually--there is an affair because one spouse has stopped doing the things that kindle love while also simultaneously doing the things that extinguish love more often. As a very easy example: the husband stops sending her flowers and begins to sometimes respond in angry explosions when he's under stress; the wife wears sweats and gains 50 lbs. and begins to find fault in everything he does. That marriage is vulnerable to an affair! 

You mention you did 7 months of counseling, and no one has asked you here, so I'm going to ask. Did you ever discuss these things in your counseling sessions? Specifically, did you ever tell your wife the things that kindle love for you, and the things that extinguish it? And likewise did you ever hear from her the things that kindle love for her and the things that extinguish it? Did you two make a determined, conscientious effort to stop extinguishing and DO things to re-kindle? If not, then I'd say that's why she keeps cheating. The problem was never "fixed." 

BTW, this is not to say it's somehow you're fault. NOOOOOO! She is 100% responsible for keeping herself faithful. It is her job to do what she has to do to protect you from her own weaknesses, and that would include coming to you and saying, "Honey it seems like we're slipping again." She is also 100% responsible for her choice to continually turn to others when she made a vow to you. She had LOTS of options and chose to go outside the marriage! But...what I am saying is that maybe she continues to cheat because whatever the issues were in the marriage never got fixed. It's my experience that it's EXTREMELY RARELY the fault of one spouse, but rather they both contributed somehow. Thus, to "fix" the issue, they both have to change and do something different. Do either one of you do any changing or identify what the issues were? 

I just want to be sure we aren't making assumptions and missing something here, okay?


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## created4success (Apr 9, 2010)

AC: great insights and coaching. Perhaps gaining clarity in these areas will help significantly.



Affaircare said:


> one thing that sort of stands out to me is that usually--not EVERY time but usually--there is an affair because one spouse has stopped doing the things that kindle love while also simultaneously doing the things that extinguish love more often.


This is so true: if both spouses are plugged into each other and the communication is strong, most often affairs are a distant distraction and don't often occur. When 1 spouse "checks out," or makes a decision to stop interacting or doing those important things you mention, AC, then an affair may become more likely.


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## totallyconfused (Mar 20, 2009)

Affaircare said:


> totallyconfused~
> You mention you did 7 months of counseling, and no one has asked you here, so I'm going to ask. Did you ever discuss these things in your counseling sessions? Specifically, did you ever tell your wife the things that kindle love for you, and the things that extinguish it? And likewise did you ever hear from her the things that kindle love for her and the things that extinguish it?





Affaircare said:


> Do either one of you do any changing or identify what the issues were?
> 
> I just want to be sure we aren't making assumptions and missing something here, okay?


These are all good questions. We did discuss these things in counseling, but she wasn't ready to do them or receive them. I told her last fall that I felt you couldn't just test the waters, that you had to jump back in the pool and risk getting really hurt again. She said she wasn't ready.

That said, it's been a strange, tumultuous month. I spoke with my minister and finally worked up the nerve to say I was done with the marriage we had. I told her I knew about the affair with one guy, the one-night stand with another guy, and the online cheating with a third guy. I told her I wanted to be in a relationship that was a good model for my children. I told her I didn't want vengeance, but I wanted us to move on with dignity to something else. Basically, I finally said I'm ready to leave, to find a relationship with love and respect, and I'm not willing to stay just for the children as this isn't good for them.

She asked for time to think. We did a *lot* of talking over the past month. She has now asked to start over, to really commit emotionally 100%, to totally cut off contact with the other guy, and to plunge in with no safety net with the risk of getting hurt, but lots of communication. I'm still trying to figure out if that's what I want, but it's definitely a new chapter.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

IF you do this, insist on these things:
Access to her computer and her phone WITH the passwords, any time you ask; the first time she refuses, she leaves.
A GPS on her car so you can check if you want.
A post-nup agreement so that, if you catch her cheating again, she leaves and the kids stay with you. So does your money.

If she refuses these things, then she is not being honest with herself about what she has done to you, and she's not being honest about stopping; i.e., she is lying to you to get you to not leave.


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## whynot (Apr 16, 2010)

Affaircare said:


> totallyconfused~
> 
> One of the BIGGEST things that people lose when there is infidelity is what I can "the illusion." It's the illusion that "that happens to other people but not us." It's the illusion that "our love is special and above all that." It's the illusion that you are safe, loved and accepted by your spouse. It is the illusion of a happy family. It is the illusion of a loving marriage that lasts forever. It's the illusion of "we'll always work it out." It's the illusion of something like "This is the only wo/man I'll ever have sex with" or "Our sex is special (maybe sacred) now because we're married." When there is infidelity, not only is trust lost, but also that illusion of acceptance, love, and being only for each other. Oddly enough that illusion can be harder to lose than the actual "affair" sometimes!


SO well said! I felt safe in my marriage until I 1) found out about the other woman 2) realized he had been doing that for 7 years with her and I only knew "him" the way he was having her in his life and 3) realized he wont disclose anything to get past this, I had to numb myself emotionally. No wonder I found it so easy to have an affair... I dont have any emotions for my marriage right now... I have been neutered, so to speak. 

You are doing the right thing leaving. 

I do want to point out one thing about affairs... some people do them over and over bc once they know they arent getting caught, its like dating again... and you remember how fun dating is... and THIS kind of dating has real no strings attached, so its even more fun for serial cheaters. Most of the men I have talked to that are cheating with others are either getting no sex at home or realized at some point the whole marriage and family thing isnt for them, but they love their wives for taking care of the kids and home. Affairs are happening with men and women who are unhappily and happily married... opportunity is greater than ever... financial means (at least in suburban areas), excuses prevail bc more women are working than ever (and more men are working at home or stay at home dads who have free time during the day like bored stay at home moms!)... so they can come home late just as the man who works can. I am doing research while all this is going on in my life... and I have first hand access to cheaters unlike researchers doing randomized studies with admitted cheaters. I am picking the brains of men who are uncaught cheaters... still in their prime so to speak. I can tell you all so much more about what I have been learning. Its mind blowing what is going on out there. And, Im not cheating with them... just gathering info and then saying some excuse like best of luck, changed my mind etc... unbelieveable stuff if you get into it. I would love to create some sort of study, but cant... unless its single blind study? Dont know if that is ethical.


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