# Response when spouse is acting unacceptable.



## eagleclaw (Sep 20, 2010)

My wife has been acting totally unacceptable lately. Every time I bring up any sort of problem and try and communicate with her calmly and respectfully she switches into full attack mode (a good offence is her only defense)

She throws every insult, and says truly hurtful things because she has to WIN at all costs. I try and communicate to repair issues and hopefully improve our marriage. She arguest to WIN and to HURT.

Anyways, she never and I really do mean never acknowledges any wrong doing after and will either take a few days to return to normal, or will try to do so right away but never apologizes. this last go around I have had it. I am being emotionally cool to her and have not been doing much with her. I believe she needs some real consequences for this type of behavior. Generally in the past I have to patch things up but I just don't want to anymore. The last time I felt like this it continued for two months because she won't take the initiative to repair things.

Does anyone have any suggestions on effective consequences that may be better at driving the point home that this kind of behaviour is counter-productive for her? It needs to be so that it doesnt' server HER purposes, because she obviously isn't going to change it for anyone else.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

I'm having the same issue. Poked it's head up, specifically about other issues we've had in our marriage (like control). 

Now that I'm older and it's still surfacing even though we've worked through many of our other issues I'm starting to see it for what it's for -- control. If I'm afraid to broach the issue with certain topics then she gets off scott free. She's even admitted to it when times are good, often with a giggle, like that's "just what girls do."

Any advice on this topic would be greatly appreciated, specifically with how to deal with anger management with women, and ways for husbands to cope.

For me personally I'm pretty much finished with forgiving, trying to resolve, move on, etc. It's holding me back in my life and I'm just tired of it. I married a passionate, complicated woman and it's part of why I fell in love with her, but I just want off the roller coaster. 

I want a partner, not someone to be afraid of.


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## eagleclaw (Sep 20, 2010)

Sounds familiar. Although I don't feel afraid of mine. And I will bring up topics or discussion knowing full well she is going to implode but I do it because I don't want her EVER thinking that she can get away with X by being a complete ***** if I bring it up.

Her actions cause resentment on my part. And I can't be the loving, fun, outgoing husband I want to be because I refuse to reward really bad behaviour. But not rewarding bad behaviour is apparantly not enough. I now need tools to make that kind of behaviour so undesirable for HER - that she doesn't want to do it anymore - or SHE wants to change the dynamic of how we get along because she will only do it if it serves some purpose to herself. 

And nothing is off the table right now. I have even thought of seperation except that's my last recourse because of my kids.


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## chefmaster (Oct 30, 2010)

You have to find out why she is doing it first. In many cases it's something from her past or in how she was taught to argue growing up, or an insecurity...could be many things. 

Don't assume that's it's intentional or a control issue until you have to. There is a great exercise -->here<-- that you can do to find out if there's still hope for change. 

Before you start the exercise, forgive her for the past. All of it. Get it in your head that you are going to make it work and you are going to be the one that starts the change.

If she does react differently and begins to change give it some time. Change takes time.


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## eagleclaw (Sep 20, 2010)

NoLongerSad - thanks for your input. You sound very wise.

I have actually changed my behavior huge. I am more assertive, and better control my boundries. I have been making personal changes for some time to improve our relationship dynamic. And our old communication patter was her attacking at the very slightest provocation and me responding in kind. Her reality is dysfunctional, no doubt about it. She has no friends as a result because she has done the same to them. She has family (who have blow outs with each other about once a year) and she has me.

So rather than let her amp me up to respond in kind I have adopted a calmer, better defined approach with her. I don't let he bait me, and I don't let her attempt to "scare me off". The problem here is it really doesn't matter what approach I take I get the same response.

And I don't think she has sinister intentions. It's not premeditated. This is how she is with anybody. As a result she doesn't have anybody around anymore. We our married, and have kids so I want to make this work. However, she NEEDS to learn that even in her distorted reality - that her actions are NOT serving HER needs.

Your point that I might be backhandedly rewarding her behavior by backing off is interesting. I suppose that's possible. But how can you let someone treat you that badly and not have some sort of consequence for it?

P.S. Our argument was about our sex life.
The following thread will give you a better idea.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/19035-wifes-responses-when-i-initiate.html#post213095


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## jimrich (Sep 26, 2010)

re: Does anyone have any suggestions on effective consequences
.... I'd get some relationship books or go on line to learn all about exactly how to make a good relationship. IMO, you need way more than just a few 'consequences' recommendations in a forum and we haven't read your wife's side of it. 
google: relationships
or codependency


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## eagleclaw (Sep 20, 2010)

The reason WHY I might do something knowing it's going to provoke her can be explained this way. With this most recent argument, I have been putting in much effort into her sexual happiness. I make her the center of attention sexually and I do this often. Oral, massages, anything she wishes.

Not only doesn she not return the favour on her own accord, she also doesn't when I try to hint or lead her there. Yes I have been patient. But eventually I have to bring it up and say look, I'm making a real effort for us, and for you but I'm not seeing you do the same. I'm not yelling or blaming but the point is I not going to keep putting all the effort in for both of us, if she's going to remain sexually selfish.

It sounds like your suggesting I should just accept it and never briing it up because I know it will cause a fight. Well then she has the perfect tool for reaping all the benifits of a relationship, while creating an atmosphere of ever being questioned on any of her actions because she will throw a temper tantrum. 

I also talk to my kids about there actions when they are inappropriate, knowing full well that they quite likely get upset or have a temper tantrum as a result.


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## eagleclaw (Sep 20, 2010)

NoLongerSad - Completely agree with your last post. And I'm not trying to solve it over night. My first step is we need to start communicating better/differently. I have been doing that. Trying to get her to make this same effort.

Second step, really inappropriate behavior should have some sort of consequence. If I screw up she has a temper and freezes me out for a few days. Although she uses this for any event and so often that it really has no effect on me anymore but that's kind the point.

I have managed to improve things from how they were quite a bit. And we do have good times and it's not all bad. But when it's bad, it's quite bad. And I really don't see her putting the kind of effort in that I'm putting. We are currently reading "His Needs/Her Needs together as well.

But as I identify problems/sticking points in the relationship I'm trying to find tools to defuse them. 

The current problem was the basis for this thread. I have let this go lots. I have forgiven and moved on lots. I have patched things up for the greater good lots. You know what that has got me. She has no reason not to repeat this behaviour because nothing bad ever happens as a result. In fact from her view it's probably been effective. It ended the argument and then I made attempts to reconcile. I have proven that model doesn't work.


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## eagleclaw (Sep 20, 2010)

> Trying to behaviorally out-manipulate a person like your wife may be, is like bringing a pea shooter to a gun fight. Just so there's no misunderstanding about what I mean, she has the gun, you have the peashooter.


Now that's funny 

How do you get a professional opinion on something like that? She thinks theres nothing wrong with her...I'd probably end up divorced if I told her I thought she had a personality disorder. 

All being said, I have to find some way to make the situation BETTER - I'm not prepared to leave my kids especially since they would be forced to fend for themselves. And yes, in Canada she would most likely get custody.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

I feel for you EagleClaw ... my wife will often create arguments and be quite mean over little things. I think it is because she has a problem with intimacy and that she does it to put distance between us.

My new hope for improvement has come from reading "Hold On To Your N.U.T.S". I am going to work on the BetterMen Tools to try to make things better as reading the book has shown me that I have not been doing too well lately in these areas. I had given up and was making things worse rather than better.

The BetterMen Tools that I am trying to focus on are:

1) Silence the Little Boy - I have begun to 'sulk' about things. I approach her for sex and she rejects me and I go into hiding. She gives me grief about something I don't agree with and I get cold and hold it against her. I am going to try to just not let it bother me.

2) Run the Sex and Romance Departments - I have quit running them because I kept getting rejected. Quitting hasn't helped. I quit buying flowers, giving compliments, little hugs, initiating more, etc. I am going to try harder to bring romance back and I am not going to sulk when it doesn't go my way. I am going to try harder instead. I was hoping she would run the sex and romance departments sometimes and I realize that although she used to be more responsive, she never took control. I am going to take control. As the book says, women don't want to make love to little boys. I am going to silence the little boy and start acting like a man.

3) Don't Argue - I am going to listen to her when she is upset, but I am not going to fuel the fires by arguing. If I win the argument, I lose because I make her feel bad. If I lose the argument, I lose, so I am going to try not to argue. She was in a mood this morning and I screwed up by arguing back. I should have said nothing.

4) Cooperate - I am going to do more around the house and to help her with things. She does most, so it is no big deal to help with preparing supper, cleaning up, etc. I used to do more of this, but have stopped because I have felt taken advantage of. Part of silencing the little boy.

5) Listen - I am going to listen to her. I am not going to come home and watch tv or browse the internet or do anything but be with her. I can help prepare supper, ask her how her day was and listen to her. This is something I have never been good at, and lately I have been cold to her because of being rejected.

Reading that book made me realize that even though I may have felt justified in being angry with her, my reactions were only making it worse. I am at the same point as you. I love my kids and my life. I love my wife. I am not ready to walk away. 

Her being a beotch and being cold makes my life not so great, but me sulking and being cold and not trying, makes it even worse. I am hoping that being a stronger man and being a good husband will make her a better wife.


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## eagleclaw (Sep 20, 2010)

I have been doing all of that, and so far as long as she is reaping the benefits all is well. But as soon as I want to be the beneficiary for once all goes to hell.

I read a book similar about nice guys. Made a bunch of changes. Once thing I am going to try and do is I will continue to run the romance and sex dept - BUT I will no longer cater to her if she is not investing equal effort. Rather than putting her needs above my own, and worrying about her getting hers I'll make myself the priority until she reciprocates. 

Example, if she wants oral then I want oral first. Or we do a 69.

If she acts uninterested or does something that is not fueling the sexual experieince - like complains that my face is prickly so shee doesn't want a kiss, or that it's taking too long I'll simply stop and leave the room immediatley.

If it continues like this................well I guess I'll buy her batteries and get myself a girlfriend


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

eagleclaw said:


> My wife has been acting totally unacceptable lately. Every time I bring up any sort of problem and try and communicate with her calmly and respectfully she switches into full attack mode (a good offence is her only defense)
> 
> She throws every insult, and says truly hurtful things because she has to WIN at all costs. I try and communicate to repair issues and hopefully improve our marriage. She arguest to WIN and to HURT.


I guess if it were me I would treat it like limit setting for a misbehaving child, as that is what the behavior sounds like.

When you have calmed down and want to discuss this with me like an adult, then we can talk. And walk out.

Then in future conversations, talk about what healthy communication means to you! And to her. Maybe read some stuff together on marital communication, fighting to solve not to win and whatnot.



> Anyways, she never and I really do mean never acknowledges any wrong doing after and will either take a few days to return to normal, or will try to do so right away but never apologizes. this last go around I have had it.


The problem with not being able to accept wrong is that it becomes impossible to be able to make amends. I am going to bet that this is not new and has been like this her whole life. My further guess that in her upbringing, self esteem was focused entirely on actions. If she admits to being wrong, will she lose her self esteem? In her mind, subconsciously, will she lose her lovability? Somehow the growing up process in which she learns that to be wrong is not so bad as to be wrong and belligerent. Being able to make amends is a GOOD trait, but requires being able to admit to being wrong. 



> I am being emotionally cool to her and have not been doing much with her. I believe she needs some real consequences for this type of behavior. Generally in the past I have to patch things up but I just don't want to anymore. The last time I felt like this it continued for two months because she won't take the initiative to repair things.


Yah I am with you here. You wind up in a downward spiral of you making up for her bad behavior. What impetus does she ever have to grow up?



> Does anyone have any suggestions on effective consequences that may be better at driving the point home that this kind of behaviour is counter-productive for her? It needs to be so that it doesnt' server HER purposes, because she obviously isn't going to change it for anyone else.


Well I guess I would calmly tell her that I don't care to be yelled at. Conversations don't have to get ramped up to full tilt in 20 seconds. Not only do I not care for it, I won't tolerate it. I will walk away from any conversation that involves attacks. Then do it. She will probably attack you right then and there. As soon as she does, walk away, even if you have not gotten the words out. Your mantra is WHEN you can speak to me in a respectful manner, THEN we will continue this conversation.

The other stuff the only thing I can think of in terms of learning to accept fault, learning to apologize and make amends... learning to fight to solve not fight to win... I wonder if a little self study of books from amazon or your local bookstore could yield some thoughts. In the final analysis, SHE is the one who has to do the growing up. How you can facillitate that I don't know.

Good luck.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

eagleclaw said:


> It sounds like your suggesting I should just accept it and never briing it up because I know it will cause a fight.


I feel that this is a bad idea. It is one thing to intentionally tweak someone. I don't get the sense that that is the case. The fact that there are topics that merely uttering causes an implosion sounds troublesome to me.


This sounds important. Brushing it under the rug won't help. You need to dig in and find a way to FIX it.



> Well then she has the perfect tool for reaping all the benifits of a relationship, while creating an atmosphere of ever being questioned on any of her actions because she will throw a temper tantrum.


So in your view, she is getting whatever it is she wants? She wants different things than you? She does not want harmony, love, affection, intimacy? She wants ... what? Your paycheck? What does she maintain in this relationship that she gets by tantrumming.

A 2 year old thinks that they are getting their way when their parent gives in to their tantrum. That same 4 year old is still doing it. S/he always has. But unbeknown to that 4 year old, s/he does not like the constant state of discord in the family, the parental sense of frustration that comes with being an ill-behaved child. Would your wife be happier if she learned to "grow up" a little? If so, what I can't answer is how to help and aid without feeling like a parent. 




> I also talk to my kids about there actions when they are inappropriate, knowing full well that they quite likely get upset or have a temper tantrum as a result.


Ha! I guess I would have a problem with my spouse tantrumming if there are kids in the house that I expect not to tantrum. But that would be me. Tee hee.

Have you considered counseling? Nip this pup in the bud cuz it is a marriage killer, IMO.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

eagleclaw said:


> Example, if she wants oral then I want oral first. Or we do a 69.


I was with you until this post. There is a difference between effective limit setting, setting boundaries and tit for tat. You won't enjoy the result of that game any better than this one.

And really it makes you sound as immature and in need of growing up as she.



> If it continues like this................well I guess I'll buy her batteries and get myself a girlfriend


Or get an nice honest divorce? Why do people consider cheating ahead of divorce?


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## eagleclaw (Sep 20, 2010)

vthomeschoolmom - I was being a little faceaceous in my last post based on my frustration. I am NOT going to cater to her sexually any longer though unless she invests the same kind of consideration as I. Been working at this far too long, and making allt he effort far to long. At this point, I have nothing more to give without some effort from her side. Imature? Maybe. I don't think so, but based on the effort and patience I have shown so far I think I have remained quite composed.

Cheating on her, of course not. I was kidding. I would have done that a long time ago if it was an option to me. I've had those tests and passed them all so far.... but a seperation - that's a very reall possiblity if things don't improve. And by improve, I don't mean me fixing the situation and supporting the relationship entirely on my own.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

I fundamentally believe in forgiving. But if you are forgiving a person for what you see as abusive behaviour, then by forgiving them all you are doing is enabling further abuse. It’s the same with patience and tolerance. The more patient and tolerant you are of their abuse, the more you enable the abuse to continue. And if “trying to control, fix or change them” is added to the mix then we become a typical, almost archetypal codependent.

It’s a bit of a conundrum. On the one hand we generally forgive because we don’t want to be a bitter and resentful person and we’re generally patient and tolerant because we believe those are admirable qualities as a human. But on the other hand by demonstrating all three qualities, at the end of the day all we’re doing is enabling the abuse to continue. And continue it does.

So what’s a possible solution?

One potential solution is to become intolerant of the abusive behaviour. How do we do that? We create and implement our N.U.T.s. Take a look at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/14963-boundaries-men.html.

“What Are N.U.T.s? N.U.T.s are your Non-negotiable, Unalterable Terms. N.U.T.s are the things you’re committed to, the things that matter more than anything else: your kids, your work, yourself, your purpose, your spiritual practice, your hobbies, your integrity, your morals and your EMOTIONAL and PSYCHOLOGICAL well-being”.

If the above makes sense to you then what to do? First off I’d urge caution with N.U.T.s. Why? Because once you implement them change can come about exceedingly quickly. For example, if you implement a N.U.T and your wife charges right through the boundary you will view her, see her in a very different light. Not the least of which is that she is totally unconcerned for your boundary and because of that she WANTS to abuse you. I also urge caution because it will take your wife time to get used to your boundaries. In essence she will see a new you and it will take her time to get used to that.

Bob


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