# Sex Life Gone After Twins



## Thestock (May 8, 2018)

I have lurked in this forum for a bit, but decided to create an account and post my experience. My wife and I have been married 9 years. She was flirty, had the touch love language, and is my amazing soulmate. Sex has always (well almost always) been frequent and amazing. We had trouble getting pregnant, which was a hard issue especially for my wife. We tried for 3+ years. We did IVF and had our little boy, who is now 4. After he came, the sex was better than its ever been. She was attacking me on the regular. Then we found out we were pregnant with twins. Understandably, the sex stopped during the majority of that pregnancy. When they were born, our son was not even 2 years old yet.

I know what you are thinking. Tired wife is the reason. I get it. It has been an exhausting experience raising these three kids with very little family support. But the twins are now 2 years old, our son is 4, and the sexual progress has been only marginal. My wife has no desire at all. ZERO. This I can understand when knowing how she is with the kids all day and is mentally and physically exhausted. I work outside of the home. For about a year, she has started a part-time business that keeps her busy when not with the kids. The problem, as I see it, is that she doesnt even flirt, or care at all about intimacy. She becomes upset if the topic is even addressed. 

I dont think this can be an attraction issue. I am in good shape, I am, by most accounts, reasonably attractive, and I have a great job. I provide for our family. We have done therapy, both individual and couples. I set up an appointment with a sex therapist which made her upset, but I do think some small progress was made at that time. Still, nearly 3 years later since this all began and I am starting to wonder if this is my new reality. Will things ever improve? She literally has zero interest in sex or intimacy. She has a negative attitude about any flirt or advance that might be sexual in nature. Only after she perceives my frustration after a two or three weeks of no sex will she say something like "I think tonight maybe we can do something..." like its some sort of special treat for just me (which it always is). 

When we have sex, it sometimes very amazing. She can orgasm or even have multiple orgasms and be flushed the rest of the evening reminiscing in how amazing it was. But I think she quickly forgets, or doesnt care too much about making the effort in the future. There will be times when she randomly "takes care of me" in a different way, which is always appreciated. I do love and appreciate these moments, because I know that right now they are not her "default" and she makes a great deal of effort. I just wish she would see this is an actual need for my happiness and feeling connected with her, and not just an optional treat like it seems to be for her.

People always say its normal with having babies and then improves. When can I expect this to improve? Will she ever get her sex drive back? Will I go crazy trying to be patient? I love her so much, but I often fantasize about a life away from her where I could be free to actually find a woman who cares about intimacy.

Sucks.

Thanks for reading this and thanks in advance for your comments.


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

First of all, I have learned a lot of how sex is important to both people and that is someone is sexually active and then goes cold, it's for a reason, they just don't really change. I learned the hard way on that, I just accepted my reality and, really in turn, it backfired miserably. NOW, having said that I think there is a different reason here than I encountered and it's the one you already mentioned and the low hanging fruit.

From my point of view, those kids are still pretty young and having 3, 4 years or younger is a huge strain physically, emotionally, you name it. 

if I were you I would continue to do the things you can do to make her feel desirable, to keep trying, to brush of the rejections but that them not as a snide but as for what i think they are, just someone invested with kids very young and it's taxing. I hope and believe that if you continue your courting, you continue to make her feel special and don't hold resentment, those kids don't stay young forever. They are going to start to do things on their own, with each milestone from the twins, that's something that you won't have to do again. Before you know it, the kids will be getting their own breakfast, turning on the tv and getting themselves ready. And if you have stayed true up until that point, your wife is going to have much less of a burden and she is going to see that you kept up with your ways of attracting her and just human nature will take over and couple that with more time and you should be good. 

I could be wrong but I think the issue her is the young kids and for you to try to turn that resentment into looking towards the future and enjoying the kids while they are still this age.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Have you expressed your dissatisfaction to her about your sexual status quo, without ambiguity and without being passive aggressive about it?

Or are you mostly internalising this and hoping for the best?

Since if you don't express yourself directly, or you don't end your relationship with her or replace her sexually with someone else. How on earth is she going to know that you're not fine with what you get?


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## Thestock (May 8, 2018)

Personal said:


> Have you expressed your dissatisfaction to her about your sexual status quo, without ambiguity and without being passive aggressive about it?
> 
> Or are you mostly internalising this and hoping for the best?
> 
> Since if you don't express yourself directly, or you don't end your relationship with her or replace her sexually with someone else. How on earth is she going to know that you're not fine with what you get?


Yes, we have had conflict surrounding this issue for the past 2+ years. At the beginning, she wouldnt even speak about it with me. Like seriously she would just grunt and not say anything. I would be like "did you hear what I just said? Do you even care?" which would just anger her. After meeting for a few months w/ sex therapist, there was some marginal improvement. She would claim all was well and everything is where it should be. I disagreed. I would tell her how I felt....that she was not receptive or positive in any way about sex or intimacy and this hurts me a great deal. That when we do have sex, its like she is finally waving the white flag rather than actually looking forward to a special moment. All of this frustration is a bit hard to put in writing....at times she has listened and been understanding, at other times she has rolled her eyes and clearly not wanted to be bothered with this.

Where I am at right now is this: I work hard at my job, I work hard to be a good father to these kids and to support my wife in her new business (on the weekends she has a lot of time to herself and I am with the kids). I go to the gym, lift weights, and keep myself as in shape as I can. I compliment her, slap her on the ass when I feel like it, tell her how sexy she is and how grateful I am for her. I occasionally just smooch her up randomly. I dont press the issue. Usually ever 2-3 weeks we will have great sex or she will go down on me.....then repeat the paragraph all over again 

Would really like, more than sex more often, for her to just be flirty and a little bit dirty again like she used to. Receptive to flirts. Sexting me occasionally....that sort of thing, and of couse, more sex  But I am realistic about where we are at in life right now. I guess I just lose my patience from time to time. Before you know it, I will be past my prime and so will she. I dont want to waste the best years of my sexual life being frustrated.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

i get the tiredness, exhaustion and the focus on the kids. it's just the way things are. she needs to be given slack and
deference to her situation. sorry, but you're probably gonna have to take care of yourself mostly.

what is inexcusable however, is the attitude. that she 'get's mad' even when the subject comes up?
that she pretends sex doesn't exist, or it's not needed? what imaginary world has she created for herself, that
during the course of marriage, sex was regular, exciting and then, now, suddenly it shouldn't exist?

selfishness. no other way to describe it.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

jorgegene said:


> i get the tiredness, exhaustion and the focus on the kids. it's just the way things are. she needs to be given slack and
> deference to her situation. *sorry, but you're probably gonna have to take care of yourself mostly.
> *
> what is inexcusable however, is the attitude. that she 'get's mad' even when the subject comes up?
> ...


Unfortunately this is all too often what happens, and when one of the most important bonding experiences a couple shares is relegated to a solo or non existent activity, the rest of the relationship will follow.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

So, she's got three children under 4 and is running a business part time from home. Is she also responsible for all the housework and chores, laundry, cooking, etc.? If so, how is she managing all that? Does she seem overwhelmed day-to-day? Is there just more stress in her life than she can effectively manage? Perhaps see if there are things that can be let go. But to manage that, you are also going to have to be okay with those things being let go. Is that a possibility?

How about you? Is your life stressful to the point that you're needing her to handle some of that stress for you? A lot of women find the need to manage their partner's emotional state to be a turn-off, particularly if that's a long term situation. 

Also, how involved are you with the children? Clearly, having children was important to her if she went through fertility treatments. So it's likely that her partner being a good father is important to her as well. Not a good provider, not someone who helps out with the housework, but a good father. It turns out that that sort of "family support" is a real emotional need for some women. Do you spend time with the children actively parenting? If she has a strong emotional need for family support, she may have a definite idea of what that looks like in her head that maybe you aren't really aware of.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

The more space you afford her and the less sex you both share, the greater the distance will grow between you.

Your wife is obviously not feeling that desire to share sex with you, yet this has carried on for 2+ years. It was probably a mistake for the both of you, to not get back on the horse very quickly after falling off it.

At some point you will have to decide upon cutting your losses (the sooner the better from a financial and getting out there perspective). Or accepting your lot as is, while appreciating that it is highly likely to get far worse in terms of sexual intimacy and frequency as more years unfold. Then if you do decide to stay, a proper discussion on you or both of you getting sex outside of your marriage would be a good idea.

Or you can consider cheating on her if you're not willing to be frank with her on this, with the risk that it could blow up substantially down the track, if something goes wrong. Otherwise given time a sexless marriage with voluntary celibacy is where you might be headed.

At the end of the day this isn't fun, yet an honest accounting of your relationship together with her in person may be the best chance yo have of a turn around. Yet with the 2+ years already squandered, she would quite rightly think you are likely to be full of hot air if you do draw a line, which she may well cross just to call your bluff.


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## BigDigg (Jan 11, 2018)

When I had my first kid I recall thinking at the time how incredibly difficult it was. Then we had our second less than 2 years later and I realized how easy we had it with just one. I can't even imagine what twins on top of a 2 yr old is like. 

When those twins turn 4 you might start to be out of the woods and life can slowly return to some semblance of normalcy again. Until then however you're wife is probably swimming in it and any effort to push the issue will be met with resistance and/or resentment. She'll view it either as an attack on her (and lack of understanding) or that you're behaving as another child for her to manage. You simply cannot negotiate desire. But you can really screw with your marriage and create a long-term problems.

A bit of understanding, patience and picking your spots is probably best you can do short term. Sorry no magic tricks I know of. Little kids are a blessing but certainly can be a marriage happiness nuke too. This too shall pass so make sure you're playing the long game here.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

@MEM2020

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

If you've lurked, then you've probably seen some of the thousands of threads of almost exactly the same situation. At least you know you're not alone. But you hopefully realize that there's not a quick and easy solution. And likely, any long-term solution will look very different than what you might want right now.

It's pretty unlikely your W will get her grove back like it was before. Her attention is focused on other things, and that unconscious desire for sex is gone. She now has to consciously fit sex in with all the other things she has going on. As an example, think about how you like doing something like going to the movies. Regardless how fun going to the movies is, if you're swamped with other responsibilities then you're not going to want to go to the movies and you won't be able to enjoy the movie as much even if you go. Right now it's like that for your W, with her head so full of other responsibilities that the need for sex isn't there.

I think the best chance you have at improving things is to accept the new reality that her innate desire has gone way down (or completely gone). It sounds like she cares enough to make sure some of your needs are taken care of. Leverage that and come up with a framework where you can maintain some level of intimacy. For example:

- Make a strong effort to go to bed at the same time with contact (cuddling). Too often the couple drifts apart and there's not even any physical touch happening.
- Schedule certain times for sex. It's clear that with her interest and the demands of work and family, sex is not going to just happen naturally with any sort of frequency. So say Saturday night is for sex or something. That will make it easier for her to know when it is and get in the right mindset.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Thestock said:


> When we have sex, it sometimes very amazing. She can orgasm or even have multiple orgasms and be flushed the rest of the evening reminiscing in how amazing it was. But I think she quickly forgets, or doesnt care too much about making the effort in the future. There will be times when she randomly "takes care of me" in a different way, which is always appreciated. I do love and appreciate these moments, because I know that right now they are not her "default" and she makes a great deal of effort. I just wish she would see this is an actual need for my happiness and feeling connected with her, and not just an optional treat like it seems to be for her.
> 
> People always say its normal with having babies and then improves. When can I expect this to improve? Will she ever get her sex drive back? Will I go crazy trying to be patient? I love her so much, but I often fantasize about a life away from her where I could be free to actually find a woman who cares about intimacy.


First, you can just do nothing and hope that one day her libido will return. If you're going this route, it would be nice to know if she actually misses having a libido and is willing to eventually work on getting it back. If you knew that, in a fixed number of years, you could count on it returning, you'd probably be willing to wait. But, what if it never does? 

Unlike many here (who you'll hear from soon), I believe it is entirely normal for wives to greatly enjoy sex but not think of doing it often (spontaneous vs responsive; google responsive desire). An analogy is going to the gym. You rarely spontaneously feel like going to the gym but, once you go, you feel great and are glad you did. Her desire probably changed from spontaneous to responsive. It's possible for her to work with responsive desire (give herself a chance to be turned on), but she has to know that it's common for women and she's not unusual. When she became responsive, she probably worried that something is wrong with her. Also, she may feel that she should never have sex unless she wants sex (spontaneously desires it).

So, if this is the case, this is very fixable but your wife needs a motivation to change.

Have ONE talk with her, say the following:

My having sex with you is the way that I feel emotionally connected to you. When we don't have sex, I feel disconnected. This is not good for the marriage.

I am unwilling to stay forever in a sexless marriage. If things don't change, eventually I will probably leave.

I need to know if you see this as a problem as well and that you're willing to work on improving it.

I am willing to wait, but not forever.

I am very unhappy with the frequency with which we are having sex, but I have no interest in having sex with someone who doesn't want sex with me.

Therefore, I will stop initiating sex with you as of now. If you ask me to start initiate again, I will try. However, if I am rejected too often, I will stop again. 

If there's anything that you think you need me to do to improve the situation, let me know and I will do my best to meet your needs.

I love you and our marriage and I fervently hope that we can work this out and be happily married forever. 

Then, DO NOT talk about this again.

If you see no improvement, stop doing things for her that you do only for her happiness. There are all kinds of threads here about self improvement and the 180 (the most important thing is that you make these changes for yourself, not for the purpose of making your wife want to have sex with you again).

STOP talking to her about this. 

If she asks about you changes in your behavior, let her know that, since she is not making your happiness a priority, you are focusing on it yourself.


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## Thestock (May 8, 2018)

Rowan said:


> So, she's got three children under 4 and is running a business part time from home. Is she also responsible for all the housework and chores, laundry, cooking, etc.? If so, how is she managing all that? Does she seem overwhelmed day-to-day? Is there just more stress in her life than she can effectively manage? Perhaps see if there are things that can be let go. But to manage that, you are also going to have to be okay with those things being let go. Is that a possibility?
> 
> How about you? Is your life stressful to the point that you're needing her to handle some of that stress for you? A lot of women find the need to manage their partner's emotional state to be a turn-off, particularly if that's a long term situation.
> 
> Also, how involved are you with the children? Clearly, having children was important to her if she went through fertility treatments. So it's likely that her partner being a good father is important to her as well. Not a good provider, not someone who helps out with the housework, but a good father. It turns out that that sort of "family support" is a real emotional need for some women. Do you spend time with the children actively parenting? If she has a strong emotional need for family support, she may have a definite idea of what that looks like in her head that maybe you aren't really aware of.


She is heavier on cleaning the home and laundry, I am heavier on paying bills, planning, and cooking meals. We have tried to get nanny help, but getting consistent help is difficult. When we've had someone, it has helped tremendously.

I am a terrific father. I take pride in saying that. She knows this, and tells me all the time. I get home from work, and immediately proceed to chase my kids and tickle and play with them until they go to sleep. We usually both put them down, though lately I am able to put all 3 down myself and she can work on her business or do "girl" time for herself. Occasionally, she will put all 3 down so I can go watch NBA playoffs or something with the guys. Its a good balance.

Really, the only thing wrong is the lack of desire. I am ok to wait and be patient, if only I knew there was light at the end of the tunnel. She used to flirt, to text me things, to be receptive to my flirting. Now, if I send a flirty text, she doesnt respond. If I sneak up on her and tickle her and then kiss her....she "relents" rather than being an active participant in the fun. Sad. I am hopeful this will change back one day.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

_People always say its normal with having babies and then improves. When can I expect this to improve? Will she ever get her sex drive back? _

-------

I have never heard this.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Thestock said:


> She is heavier on cleaning the home and laundry, I am heavier on paying bills, planning, and cooking meals. We have tried to get nanny help, but getting consistent help is difficult. When we've had someone, it has helped tremendously.
> 
> I am a terrific father. I take pride in saying that. She knows this, and tells me all the time. I get home from work, and immediately proceed to chase my kids and tickle and play with them until they go to sleep. We usually both put them down, though lately I am able to put all 3 down myself and she can work on her business or do "girl" time for herself. Occasionally, she will put all 3 down so I can go watch NBA playoffs or something with the guys. Its a good balance.
> 
> Really, the only thing wrong is the lack of desire. I am ok to wait and be patient, if only I knew there was light at the end of the tunnel. She used to flirt, to text me things, to be receptive to my flirting. Now, if I send a flirty text, she doesnt respond. If I sneak up on her and tickle her and then kiss her....she "relents" rather than being an active participant in the fun. Sad. I am hopeful this will change back one day.


Sounds like the parenting and household stuff is going about as well as can be expected, then, given three littles at home. 

How much time do the two of you spend together each week, alone with one another, doing fun date-like things? 

If there's not enough of that, then it's pretty common for the marriage to suffer. Most men notice the marriage is suffering when their sex life begins to suffer, but it may also be strained in other ways that maybe you haven't noticed yet. And those other ways can lead to your wife not feeling sexual towards you. It's recommended that couples who wish to be in love - that is, both getting their most important emotional needs met - spend about 15 hours per week in engaged, fun, quality time alone together. So, dating. If you don't already, you two need to get back in the habit of really dating one another. You have to keep relating to one another as friends, lovers, girlfriend/boyfriend rather than just as spouses and parents. It can really help.


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## Thestock (May 8, 2018)

Rowan said:


> Sounds like the parenting and household stuff is going about as well as can be expected, then, given three littles at home.
> 
> How much time do the two of you spend together each week, alone with one another, doing fun date-like things?
> 
> If there's not enough of that, then it's pretty common for the marriage to suffer. Most men notice the marriage is suffering when their sex life begins to suffer, but it may also be strained in other ways that maybe you haven't noticed yet. And those other ways can lead to your wife not feeling sexual towards you. It's recommended that couples who wish to be in love - that is, both getting their most important emotional needs met - spend about 15 hours per week in engaged, fun, quality time alone together. So, dating. If you don't already, you two need to get back in the habit of really dating one another. You have to keep relating to one another as friends, lovers, girlfriend/boyfriend rather than just as spouses and parents. It can really help.


I appreciate that feedback. We definitely dont get much free time just the two of us. We have very little family support, so we basically need to bring the kids anywhere we go. We get a babysitter for 1-2 hours one night each week and do go out and eat a late dinner together. After the kids sleep, we usually watch Netflix or read together. We have been reading stuff on improving the marriage etc. We did go through a rough patch right after the kids were born, where she had post-partum depression and I was also depressed. I think we are both out of the woods on that now. She definitely still struggles with her self-image. She has poor self-image about her body given the way its changed since the twin pregnancy. I do my best to snuff out her negative self-talk and tell her how beautiful and sexy she is. Maybe one day she will believe it again and things will change....


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

If you don't already have it, add His Needs, Her Needs by W. Harley to your reading list. If nothing else, it will give you two a good way to have conversations about the true state of the marriage and what each of you really needs from it and each other. It also happens to explain a man's emotional need for sex with his wife in a way that usually resonates without creating more anger. It'll do much the same for whatever her top needs are. Dr. Harley has several other books that may also be helpful, but HNHN remains a great starting place.


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## ButWeAreStrange (Feb 2, 2018)

Stress levels aside (which sound like they honestly could be a large part of where she's feeling stuck), has she had any of her hormones checked recently? Between fertility treatments, the stress of having the twins, and any of the emotional impact of the last few years, she could be working with a hormonal imbalance. 

It sounds like she needs a vacation, or some sort of get away that allows her to reset alongside you. Are there any vacation days coming up that you can use or any family members or trusted friends who could take the kids even just for a weekend? Time together, alone, is so important, especially if her role as a mother is quickly enveloping the rest of her identity. She may not even realize it at the moment, but if she's sinking into this attitude, it might get more difficult to pull back out of. 

Maybe see if you both can schedule a date night, even once a month. A time that is just about you two and not the kids (believe me I understand how difficult it can be to just put them aside for a night, but it can make a world of difference). Sometimes people just genuinely need time to reboot before diving back into their hectic lives, and you both sound like you could use a break. Are there any activities or hobbies you both could pursue together? Or a class or workshop that you both could go to? It could help rebuild that friendship and communication that seems to be getting lost in all of the daily routines.


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## PigglyWiggly (May 1, 2018)

It sounds to me that she has responsive desire. She also probably doesn't understand the importance of sex to you. I imagine she thinks of it as a method to orgasm for you which is nice but you are wanting intimacy with the woman you love and to bond. Every time you slap her on the ass, she hears " he wants sex" instead of it being a loving and affectionate touch. She needs to understand that it isn't that you are wanting to get off but that you want to feel desired. Many women greatly underestimate the role a woman's desire for her mate plays on his well being. Men don't generally cheat for sex....they cheat to feel desired....sex comes with that. 

You have to explain to her that your ass grabs are just affection...not a request for sex. She doesn't know that I bet. She is feeling pressured and her fight or flight kicks in. Lots better advice from others here but the bottom line to ME is that she doesn't understand that sex is more than penis in vagina for you. she also doesn't understand that she can make you feel desired without having sex. Good luck buddy. If she wants it to work, it can . You just need the right communication.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

There are two things you need to do. The first is date your wife the way you used to before you had kids (cooking class, rent kayaks, play mini golf, go dancing, nature hikes, etc.). That means new and exciting things, not just doing the routine and getting a babysitter to get dinner out. Basically treat her like a woman if you want her to act like a woman and not just a mother. If this doesn't work and she's not exhausted from the kids you proceed to the second step. That step is you need to draw a line in the sand and tell her in no uncertain terms that this is a divorceable choice she is making and you won't live the rest of your life this way. She then gets to choose whether she values you as a partner or only as a provider, and her actions will let you know whether you can work through this or whether it is time to call it quits. I had this talk with my wife back when I was married and my sex life started dwindling. The result was she fixed her attitude and we returned to our good sex life because she knew that in my mind this was an essential part of marriage and I'd walk out over it.


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## Thestock (May 8, 2018)

Much to my hope that I wouldnt turn into "that guy" that chronicles every detail, but I thought sharing this most recent attempt at flirting with my wife on gchat and how that went. Just a note: the last 3 times we've had sex were at like 4am after one of our kids woke us up. One of us would attend to the child come back, and then ask the other one if they want to play. She did this twice, i did it once. Not my preferred time to have sex, but I have been taking what I can get. Anyhow, here is my attempt to flirt with her on gchat. What can i do to improve the interaction? Thanks

Her: I won't go out... I am SO tired, I just want to read my book and sleep! 
Me: when you say "read and sleep" what you really mean is "get thrown around on my bed by hubby, read, then sleep" right?!
Her: Hm. I see.
Me: What do you see?
Her: I see a really tired mama that's trying hard to work and take care of the kids, that worked until midnight and was woken up at 5am and needs to sleep badly
Me: you see a lot
Her: I miss you sweetie
maybe I can wake you up at 4am
Me: no thanks
I like sleeping at 4am
Her: LOLOLOL
ME TOO
but you know...
sometimes it's fun
Me: its always fun
if you took a shower and cleaned yourself up a bit, and dedicated 20 minutes to being with me tonight before you sleep...I could remind you how much fun it could be
Her: HAHAHAHAHAHAH

At this point, she then proceeded to talk about what to do for dinner. I feel this is actually PROGRESS. She usually just ignores any sexy text or chat and wont speak to me for hours, like until I've forgotten about it hahahah. What can I do differently? I have every intention of approaching her tonight and not letting her squirm her way out of a good time....I do just worry about "crossing the line" you know?


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

Thestock said:


> Much to my hope that I wouldnt turn into "that guy" that chronicles every detail, but I thought sharing this most recent attempt at flirting with my wife on gchat and how that went. Just a note: the last 3 times we've had sex were at like 4am after one of our kids woke us up. One of us would attend to the child come back, and then ask the other one if they want to play. She did this twice, i did it once. Not my preferred time to have sex, but I have been taking what I can get. Anyhow, here is my attempt to flirt with her on gchat. What can i do to improve the interaction? Thanks
> 
> Her: I won't go out... I am SO tired, I just want to read my book and sleep!
> Me: when you say "read and sleep" what you really mean is "get thrown around on my bed by hubby, read, then sleep" right?!
> ...


OP you pointed out earlier that this is the main problem in the marriage right now. Are you certain your wife has no complaints about you? Are you certain she's not secretly resentful about all that she has on her plate to deal with?

I too prefer sex in the middle of the night and early mornings. I couldn't figure out why until another poster said the same. It really is because at those times my mind isn't going 100m/h and I am relaxed enough to really enjoy the sex without the mental distractions. I have no kids, so I can't even imagine the number of things your wife has running through her head all at once. 

Perhaps you need to figure out how to take advantage of her openness to sex during the wee hours of the morning.


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## PigglyWiggly (May 1, 2018)

She sounds like she is just taxed to death on time and energy. You may need to SCHEDULE sex and have a sitter for the kids then. It takes pressure off of both of you. Anecdotal but my wife and i have scheduled sex and it works GREAT! She doesn't feel pressured to initiate and I face no rejection. 5x a week


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## MarriedTex (Sep 24, 2010)

I do not envy your position. While we did not have twins, we did have three babies four years and younger at one point. They are now 25, 23 and 21.

This is just the season of your life where you have to survive and act in a manner that lets you "live to fight another day." Above all else, remember that she already has three babies. She doesn't need you to act like a fourth baby. You two are in the foxhole together. You can either be a problem in her day-to-day life or part of the solution. Sounds like you have mostly done the latter since the birth of the twins, so keep it up.

Play the long game. She's already demonstrating a willingness to meet some of your needs despite the crushing demands on her energy and spirit. It may not be the most romantic or intimate manner in the world, but she appears to be trying. As kid demands fade, what you describe is a lady who will have the spark return. It does get easier over time.

If you are interested in keeping that spark alive, it is up to you to keep stoking the embers - even if you are not immediately rewarded. Make it clear that you still see her as a sexual being. Compliment her. Flirt with her. But absolutely do not pout if it's not always reciprocated. Keep positioning yourself as the prize - someone she should want to be with. Do not convert yourself into a whiny, needy baby who gets seen as just another chore in her eyes.

It should get far better when the twins get to pre-school age. Even if she gets a couple hours break from child care a couple days a week, that will make a huge difference. 

Any chance grandparents / siblings could come in and take care of the kids in the house over a long weekend, allowing for a parental getaway? I imagine you could get a decent hotel in-town via Hotwire and just sleep / have sex all weekend. Don't need to travel far. 

Hang in there. You've had good patience so far. If you can sustain for just another year or so without devolving into another "baby" of the family, you will likely reap the rewards of your patience for decades to come.


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## Thestock (May 8, 2018)

PigglyWiggly said:


> She sounds like she is just taxed to death on time and energy. You may need to SCHEDULE sex and have a sitter for the kids then. It takes pressure off of both of you. Anecdotal but my wife and i have scheduled sex and it works GREAT! She doesn't feel pressured to initiate and I face no rejection. 5x a week


Thanks for the suggestion Piggly. We actually did that for a period. We shot for the 1st and 15th of every month. It had so-so results. In the end, she told me she wanted it to be "more natural, and not planned". I think she just has no desire for it, whether its spontaneous or whether its planned. I think she has to work really hard to to mentally come to grips with the fact that we are going to have sex each time we have it, even though she usually does end up having a grand time.

Maybe I will suggest the "schedule" again in a few weeks to mix things up. I actually liked it more than I thought, being a spontaneous dude...there was something cool to knowing "tonight is the night!" unless an excuse came up, which it frequently did :wink2:


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## Thestock (May 8, 2018)

MarriedTex said:


> I do not envy your position. While we did not have twins, we did have three babies four years and younger at one point. They are now 25, 23 and 21.
> 
> This is just the season of your life where you have to survive and act in a manner that lets you "live to fight another day." Above all else, remember that she already has three babies. She doesn't need you to act like a fourth baby. You two are in the foxhole together. You can either be a problem in her day-to-day life or part of the solution. Sounds like you have mostly done the latter since the birth of the twins, so keep it up.
> 
> ...


I love this perspective. Thank you for sharing. I definitely comported myself as her "fourth child" more times than I care to admit, especially during that first year when I got depressed. But I have put that behind me, and I have definitely gotten into better shape. I enjoy my hobbies again. I play basketball several times a week, and still make time for my guy friends. I handle more than a fair share of the kid duties, and while they test my patience, I wouldnt trade this time for anything. They are terrific kids. I love my wife...I feel for her. I wish there was something I could do to help her....but no matter how much "red pill" stuff I read, the simple truth seems to be what you say.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

Now that you've added to your story I'm going to modify my advice. You need to modify your texting foreplay. How about try this line: "babe, you work SO hard taking care of all of us and need a break so I hired a housecleaner".


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## PigglyWiggly (May 1, 2018)

Thestock said:


> Thanks for the suggestion Piggly. We actually did that for a period. We shot for the 1st and 15th of every month. It had so-so results. In the end, she told me she wanted it to be "more natural, and not planned". I think she just has no desire for it, whether its spontaneous or whether its planned. I think she has to work really hard to to mentally come to grips with the fact that we are going to have sex each time we have it, even though she usually does end up having a grand time.
> 
> Maybe I will suggest the "schedule" again in a few weeks to mix things up. I actually liked it more than I thought, being a spontaneous dude...there was something cool to knowing "tonight is the night!" unless an excuse came up, which it frequently did :wink2:


I hear you. I thought the same thing about my wife. We now have scheduled sex 5x a week. Before, I asked her what would be the ideal amount of sex if it were left up to her. She said 4x a week!!! I was floored and jumping for joy as you can imagine. The scheduling gave my wife a chance to GET herself into the mood. They need to be WILLING to be turned on. They can't wait until right before the deed and then just turn it on. You and i need a heartbeat to be turned on, our women need time but more importantly, the willingness to take the time to get turned on outside of the bedroom. If 'sex" (touch/desire) only happen in the bedroom, then that's where you are always going to want to go for touch/desire. I think she wants you and is attracted to you but just hasn't allowed herself the time to enjoy that. Just the act of being horny feels good...often people forget that.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Thestock said:


> Much to my hope that I wouldnt turn into "that guy" that chronicles every detail, but I thought sharing this most recent attempt at flirting with my wife on gchat and how that went. Just a note: the last 3 times we've had sex were at like 4am after one of our kids woke us up. One of us would attend to the child come back, and then ask the other one if they want to play. She did this twice, i did it once. Not my preferred time to have sex, but I have been taking what I can get. Anyhow, here is my attempt to flirt with her on gchat. What can i do to improve the interaction? Thanks
> 
> Her: I won't go out... I am SO tired, I just want to read my book and sleep!
> Me: when you say "read and sleep" what you really mean is "get thrown around on my bed by hubby, read, then sleep" right?!
> ...


To me..... this seems passive aggressive.

You're hinting around about what you actually want. 

I'd recommend being more straight forward in stating your desires.


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## PigglyWiggly (May 1, 2018)

Buddy400 said:


> To me..... this seems passive aggressive.
> 
> You're hinting around about what you actually want.
> 
> I'd recommend being more straight forward in stating your desires.


i agree with you. If you fool around in your request, you often don't get to fool around.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

OP, speaking as a woman who is also a mother, if you intend to flirt with your wife, I strongly suggest you don't include passive-aggressive digs about her looks or hygiene in that flirting. 

"...if you took a shower and cleaned yourself up a bit..." Seriously?!?! That's not flirtation, that's verging very closely to outright asshattery. Honestly, if that's the sort of flirting you've been doing, I'm not even mildly surprised your sex life is in a bit of trouble. Essentially, you've just called her a nasty slob. Not hot. And no wonder that wrapped up the flirting session immediately. 

:slap:


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## Thestock (May 8, 2018)

Rowan said:


> OP, speaking as a woman who is also a mother, if you intend to flirt with your wife, I strongly suggest you don't include passive-aggressive digs about her looks or hygiene in that flirting.
> 
> "...if you took a shower and cleaned yourself up a bit..." Seriously?!?! That's not flirtation, that's verging very closely to outright asshattery. Honestly, if that's the sort of flirting you've been doing, I'm not even mildly surprised your sex life is in a bit of trouble. Essentially, you've just called her a nasty slob. Not hot. And no wonder that wrapped up the flirting session immediately.


Yeah looking at it now, it’s not the most suave thing to have said lol. I was a little digged that she was trying to sell me that prime time 4am slot in her busy schedule. She had a work event cancelled tonight. A networking event she was prepared to go spend hours at, with strangers, even though she’s tired. But it gets canceled, and the hint of fooling around with me is met by “maybe at 4am” lol. I’m tired of not being a priority. And yes, the hygiene issue bothers me. Is it too much to ask her to approach this intimate moment with at least a small bit of caring about her appearance? So yeah....clearly I’m frustrated. How should I have handled that? Thanks


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

Thestock said:


> Yeah looking at it now, it’s not the most suave thing to have said lol. I was a little digged that she was trying to sell me that prime time 4am slot in her busy schedule. She had a work event cancelled tonight. A networking event she was prepared to go spend hours at, with strangers, even though she’s tired. But it gets canceled, and the hint of fooling around with me is met by “maybe at 4am” lol. I’m tired of not being a priority. And yes, the hygiene issue bothers me. Is it too much to ask her to approach this intimate moment with at least a small bit of caring about her appearance? So yeah....clearly I’m frustrated. How should I have handled that? Thanks


Or how about seriously considering that early morning shagging may work the best for her because that's when she's least stressed, and is relaxed enough to let go and enjoy the sex. As I said earlier OP, even I struggle with clearing my head enough to not be distracted during sex and I'm not even a parent. I too prefer sex in the middle of the night or first thing in the morning for that reason.

And instead of asking about the hygiene thing, make it a fun thing that you do together. Prepare a bath for her, bathe together, trim down there for her etc. You're only going to shoot yourself in the foot by failing to be tactful in your approach to the hygiene issue.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

If you really HAVE been having conflict about this for 2 years -basically since your TWINS were born.....I can tell you why you arent having sex.

I have a high drive - like every day high drive. If my husband had been making this a thing since I brought home twins....no.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Thestock said:


> Yeah looking at it now, it’s not the most suave thing to have said lol. I was a little digged that she was trying to sell me that prime time 4am slot in her busy schedule. She had a work event cancelled tonight. A networking event she was prepared to go spend hours at, with strangers, even though she’s tired. But it gets canceled, and the hint of fooling around with me is met by “maybe at 4am” lol. I’m tired of not being a priority. And yes, the hygiene issue bothers me. Is it too much to ask her to approach this intimate moment with at least a small bit of caring about her appearance? So yeah....clearly I’m frustrated. How should I have handled that? Thanks


I think it's pretty clear that the problem is not solely with your sex life, it's actually with your marriage. You likely simply haven't noticed the other problems because they're not as important to you as the sex is. Which may also be why sex therapy wasn't all that effective. She may like you're trying to "fix" your defective wife so that you can get sex. That may or may not be the case, but it's likely how she feels about the situation. 

Get the book I mentioned earlier, His Needs, Her Needs. While you're at it, pick up Lovebusters by the same author. You two need to be working on your marriage as a whole, not just trying to fix your sex life in isolation. 

By the way, was being a work-from-home mom your wife's idea? Stay at home mom isn't for everyone. I absolutely hated it. But, then, being a "SAHM" who is actually working at a job while at home with the children, can feel very much like trying to keep up with two full-time jobs. You, your wife, and your marriage may actually be much better off if she either gives up the business (if she feels called to be a SAHM) or goes back to work full-time outside the home. It might be a conversation worth having.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Stock,
Your wife - henceforth S2 for short - used to feel spontaneous desire. When that was the case, sex wasn’t a choice it was a need.

Now she feels responsive desire. So she has to choose to have sex. 

Google - responsive desire

Read about it. And then get her to read about it. And then come back to this site - and I will try to help you. 






Thestock said:


> Yeah looking at it now, it’s not the most suave thing to have said lol. I was a little digged that she was trying to sell me that prime time 4am slot in her busy schedule. She had a work event cancelled tonight. A networking event she was prepared to go spend hours at, with strangers, even though she’s tired. But it gets canceled, and the hint of fooling around with me is met by “maybe at 4am” lol. I’m tired of not being a priority. And yes, the hygiene issue bothers me. Is it too much to ask her to approach this intimate moment with at least a small bit of caring about her appearance? So yeah....clearly I’m frustrated. How should I have handled that? Thanks


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Thestock said:


> I appreciate that feedback. We definitely dont get much free time just the two of us. We have very little family support, so we basically need to bring the kids anywhere we go. We get a babysitter for 1-2 hours one night each week and do go out and eat a late dinner together. After the kids sleep, we usually watch Netflix or read together.


This is about what I expected you would say. The two of you are spending almost no quality time together. Most women need a fair amount of non-sexual intimacy... it's called quality time together, just the two of you doing things together that you both enjoy. It nurtures your relationship. You have to make time for it. What you have right now is what happens without it. There are two books that I think would help you both: "Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs". They are meant for the two of you to read them together and do the work together.



Thestock said:


> We have been reading stuff on improving the marriage etc. We did go through a rough patch right after the kids were born, where she had post-partum depression and I was also depressed. I think we are both out of the woods on that now. She definitely still struggles with her self-image. She has poor self-image about her body given the way its changed since the twin pregnancy. I do my best to snuff out her negative self-talk and tell her how beautiful and sexy she is. Maybe one day she will believe it again and things will change....


Is she working out or doing any sort of exercise on a regular basis?


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## MarriedTex (Sep 24, 2010)

Thestock said:


> I love this perspective. Thank you for sharing. I definitely comported myself as her "fourth child" more times than I care to admit, especially during that first year when I got depressed. But I have put that behind me, and I have definitely gotten into better shape. I enjoy my hobbies again. I play basketball several times a week, and still make time for my guy friends. I handle more than a fair share of the kid duties, and while they test my patience, I wouldnt trade this time for anything. They are terrific kids. I love my wife...I feel for her. I wish there was something I could do to help her....but no matter how much "red pill" stuff I read, the simple truth seems to be what you say.


Would you say that your wife has equal time out of the house to go to the gym and pursue her "hobbies?" How does it compare to the amount of free hours you spend away from the family?

Now, I'm as big of a proponent as anybody of Glover's No More Mr. Nice Guy and that guys have to have to maintain a certain amount of independence. That said, you've been at the equivalent of DefCon5 on the family care front for the past two years. It's an all-hands on deck situation, and it sounds like you not exactly acted like a rock of stability. 

If you have little / no family help, who do you think is taking care of those kids when you're out shooting hoops or pursuing your hobbies? Sounds to me like you've dug yourself a huge relationship hole. What you consider a "fair share" of the kid duties may not actually look so "fair" in her outlook. Indeed, with working full time and taking care of three kids under four once you get home, I would suggest that a person in that situation wouldn't have the energy to shoot those hoops regularly if they were really helping out on the home front to the extent that should be expected in a "partnership."'

Without knowing the particulars of your situation, I would suggest that the odds are high that that she has some level of resentment brewing that is emerging as an obstacle to returning to intimacy on a regular basis. I know the situation is tough. That many kids of that age literally suck the energy from you. It's literally a death march. Now, imagine going on that march knowing that your partner doesn't have your back and is just interested in the sex that you can perform for them. That's the reality your wife faces. 

There is a right time and a wrong time to assert your desires and to make your needs a priority. Right now would be the wrong time. There are bigger family issues at stake. The more you whine during the next year, the more you will be seen as part of the problem rather than the solution. My suggestion would be to man up even more, take on more responsibilities and serve as the leader of your family during what can only be described as a period of intensive care-giving. If she sees that leadership from you, you might have a chance of salvaging this over the long haul. If you want another decade of a sex-starved marriage, just keep on whining. You're right on track to a life of prolonged celibacy!


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

MarriedTex said:


> Would you say that your wife has equal time out of the house to go to the gym and pursue her "hobbies?" How does it compare to the amount of free hours you spend away from the family?
> 
> Now, I'm as big of a proponent as anybody of Glover's No More Mr. Nice Guy and that guys have to have to maintain a certain amount of independence. That said, you've been at the equivalent of DefCon5 on the family care front for the past two years. It's an all-hands on deck situation, and it sounds like you not exactly acted like a rock of stability.
> 
> ...


THIS, THIS AND MORE THIS +1

This is what I would have liked to convey to OP exactly. And if this doesn't work, then he tried but the only way it will work is with this advice. Kids are still very young dude and there's three of those rascals. Healthy Marriages are 50/50 but not usually at the same time. In this department you need to be extending more give than take, considering what she is shouldering with the kids.


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## LeananSidhe (Feb 6, 2018)

MarriedTex said:


> Thestock said:
> 
> 
> > I love this perspective. Thank you for sharing. I definitely comported myself as her "fourth child" more times than I care to admit, especially during that first year when I got depressed. But I have put that behind me, and I have definitely gotten into better shape. I enjoy my hobbies again. I play basketball several times a week, and still make time for my guy friends. I handle more than a fair share of the kid duties, and while they test my patience, I wouldnt trade this time for anything. They are terrific kids. I love my wife...I feel for her. I wish there was something I could do to help her....but no matter how much "red pill" stuff I read, the simple truth seems to be what you say.
> ...



+1000000

Say it again for the people in back!!!!


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## BarbedFenceRider (Mar 30, 2018)

....But she does have time for a part time job? What exactly does that entail? And how much time is devoted to that? 

I would like to know how often does he get time out with the "boys" vs. her time. Does she have friends which she spends time with? Anyone from her work?


You mention that you do not have family support with this marriage and child-rearing. Why is that? Who does watch the kids while you guys are working?


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## NickyT (Aug 14, 2017)

Thestock said:


> She is heavier on cleaning the home and laundry, I am heavier on paying bills, planning, and cooking meals. We have tried to get nanny help, but getting consistent help is difficult. When we've had someone, it has helped tremendously.
> 
> I am a terrific father. I take pride in saying that. She knows this, and tells me all the time. I get home from work, and immediately proceed to chase my kids and tickle and play with them until they go to sleep. We usually both put them down, though lately I am able to put all 3 down myself and she can work on her business or do "girl" time for herself. Occasionally, she will put all 3 down so I can go watch NBA playoffs or something with the guys. Its a good balance.
> 
> Really, the only thing wrong is the lack of desire. I am ok to wait and be patient, if only I knew there was light at the end of the tunnel. She used to flirt, to text me things, to be receptive to my flirting. Now, if I send a flirty text, she doesnt respond. If I sneak up on her and tickle her and then kiss her....she "relents" rather than being an active participant in the fun. Sad. I am hopeful this will change back one day.


I think I have a unique perspective: I had a 1 year old when I had twins. IMO, your attitude is for the birds. If she wants to raise the kids, forget the nanny. It will make her feel like less of a mother. Get her a maid and do it now. She has three kids under 4 and she does the cleaning and the laundry and she runs a business on the weekends. You come home from work - new place, new people, nagging tasks left behind. Your wife lives in her office. Every room needs cleaned, everything everyone wears will go into the laundry. Every mess has to be cleaned up. She sees it everywhere.

You get to the gym enough that you think you are all that. She clearly does not think she is all that or she would be smacking your butt too. And by the way, when you are busy at work trying to figure out a problem, does it help when someone smacks you on the butt? Yeah, read what I wrote about your wife's office. 

Oh, and unless she really loves this business, she needs to put it on hold until all the kids are in school. She is doing TOO MUCH. How could there possibly time or space in her head for sex?? She has to take responsibility for the fact that maintaining intimacy is work - not that she needs any more. You, sir and your at-attention member are just another chore, and she is trying to avoid it. Buy her a dress and take her out. Surprise her with a sitter once a week.

Finally, there is not one chance in Hades that an ultimatum about how you deserve something and how you can not live without sex and she should prepare herself for what you will do will work. Not ONE chance.


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## Thestock (May 8, 2018)

Wow...I’m going to remind myself that you are all here to help me and not take any offense...but many of you seem to be judging after jumping to horribly incorrect conclusions. 

1) My wife’s part time business started as her hobby and morphed into her wanting something to define her besides the 3 small kids. Yes it takes a lot of her time, but it gives her fulfillment and an identity and it’s been good for her to have and I fully support her in it. 

2) I bring gym clothes to work and I try to get to the gym at lunch for 1 hour. I play basketball or lift weights at that time. 

3) my wife gets absolutely an equal share in free time as I get. She gets girl nights out, or goes to workshops, or whatever she wants with that time. When she does, I am bathing all three kids and feeding them and putting them down myself, which is a lot easier now than it used to be. Also, she often schedules her work appointments for Saturday’s, so there are Saturdays I am literally all by myself with the kids....again, easier now than it used to be. I had to laugh at some of those posts suggesting I was spending all this time doing “me” while stuffing her with kids....not sure how in the world you extracted that information by me saying I enjoy my hobbies again after depression lol. 

My wife even took a solo vacation to Arizona and I took 2 days off work and was with the kids alone for 4 days. I travel on business one night every 5 months or so to NYC, so yeah....we both experience that. 

Also many of you keep telling me to hire a maid. We,ve got one, thanks. She comes every Thurs from 9am-1pm. We both give a maximum effort to keep the house clean inbetween. She is heavier on laundry and dishes. I am heavier on cleaning kids rooms, our room, and doing the finances and trash. 

Her business is not going anywhere. She has become uncompromising about that and I support and encourage it, not because we need the money, but because she is incredibly talented and her work gives her an identity and fulfillment outside of caring for toddlers. 

Thanks for the feedback....keep it coming. 

To the poster that mentioned responsive desire....I think that is spot on. I need to find more effective ways to flirt and build some responsive tension. I am re-learning a lot of things now. 

Thanks again to all.


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## MarriedTex (Sep 24, 2010)

Sounds like fair balance on the time side. Sorry for casting aspersions otherwise.

Given this reality, I will change my advice. The time for some tough conversations may be nearing. If there is, indeed, balance on the family side then you deserve to be a priority (at least once in awhile.) This is particularly the case if she's spending a lot of time on a favored avocation / hobby that masquerades as a "business." She has a responsibility to have her family priorities straight as well.

Your ability to instigate change may hinge in large part on your willingness to walk away. It would be difficult (and somewhat douchbaggy) to abandon a family of three kids four and under. Perhaps she senses this and takes you for granted, as a result. You have no leverage unless you are truly willing to walk away. I would understand if you're not at the point, quite yet. 

Others may have some ideas on communicating the gravity of your feelings without risking the marriage. Ultimately, she has to make a choice to be your partner. You're not getting that now.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

You will get resentful because of the no sex thing and stop pursuing her. 

Your wife’s sex drive will return when you no longer care one way or another. 

She will either cheat, ask for an open marriage of some sort or divorce you. 

This needs to get fixed.

Sorry but her identity should be as your wife just as yours should be as her husband. You are a team that doesn’t spend any real time playing together. 

How many hours a week do the two of you actually spend together? IE just the two of you no kids and not asleep. 

How many hours do you each spend away from each other with friends?

You can only go so long until the resentment starts in. Being neglected continuously will have its toll on your relationship. I know what I’m talking about. 

My youngest has a couple years left until he graduates HS. I don’t believe I will be around the home once he does. Just to long believing my wife didn’t give a damn about us. She knows all of this and has for the past 4 years. She just doesn’t know what to do to fix it, neither do I. We have gone to MC once the female counselor asked my wife at the end what she was thinking, she just sat there and cried. I tried for ten years after our first was born to do date night, weekend getaway or something as a couple. She would have none of it. My oldest is in her 20’s and my wife and I have been on 3 dates sense she was born. We are supposed to celebrate our 30th this year, I can care less if we do or don’t. 

Fix things now or the relationship will not last. I did exactly what you are doing. I helped with everything. Tried to make things easier for her. Her excuse in the end was that her parents never went on dates. I told her I wasn’t her parents. At least she is trying in a way now. It’s pretty bad when the wife calls and all I can think is damn. 

As far as I know my wife never cheated. She made it clear to me that I was at the bottom of her list of priorities behind the kids and her family. 

Don’t get to this point.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Stock,

It isn’t really about flirting. This is about crossing the chasm. On the near side - you had biology and her raw spontaneous desire 
working for you. 

Now - on the far side - it’s about having a couple short, blunt discussions about responsive desire. 

Those aren’t - simple. They are short - but they need to go a certain way. 

That said - you need to fix this before S2 incorrectly concludes that sex is optional and solely when she feels spontaneous desire. 

Oh - and ummm - you won’t fix this by spending more time together. Because that isnt your/her problem. 

You will only fix this by changing her mindset. Which is likely doable if handled properly. 




Thestock said:


> Wow...I’m going to remind myself that you are all here to help me and not take any offense...but many of you seem to be judging after jumping to horribly incorrect conclusions.
> 
> 1) My wife’s part time business started as her hobby and morphed into her wanting something to define her besides the 3 small kids. Yes it takes a lot of her time, but it gives her fulfillment and an identity and it’s been good for her to have and I fully support her in it.
> 
> ...


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## Saige (Oct 23, 2011)

Thestock said:


> I have lurked in this forum for a bit, but decided to create an account and post my experience. My wife and I have been married 9 years. She was flirty, had the touch love language, and is my amazing soulmate. Sex has always (well almost always) been frequent and amazing. We had trouble getting pregnant, which was a hard issue especially for my wife. We tried for 3+ years. We did IVF and had our little boy, who is now 4. After he came, the sex was better than its ever been. She was attacking me on the regular. Then we found out we were pregnant with twins. Understandably, the sex stopped during the majority of that pregnancy. When they were born, our son was not even 2 years old yet.
> 
> I know what you are thinking. Tired wife is the reason. I get it. It has been an exhausting experience raising these three kids with very little family support. But the twins are now 2 years old, our son is 4, and the sexual progress has been only marginal. My wife has no desire at all. ZERO. This I can understand when knowing how she is with the kids all day and is mentally and physically exhausted. I work outside of the home. For about a year, she has started a part-time business that keeps her busy when not with the kids. The problem, as I see it, is that she doesnt even flirt, or care at all about intimacy. She becomes upset if the topic is even addressed.
> 
> ...


Forgive me... I'm going to respond to your first post, but am too tired to read on! 

One thing I remember most from having 3, 3 years old and under, is that I would get "touched out" when the kids were little. Small children require an enormous amount of physical attention. From 6 am to 9-10 pm, it was constant touch, caress, hold, cuddle, hug, clean, wipe, dress, change, touch, touch, touch... there came a point where you didn't feel like your body was your own anymore. The good thing is that it is a temporary thing, once the kids get more and more mobile and intellectual, then the touch factor lessens. Be patient. Understand that kids take a very huge emotional and physical toll on care-taking parents.


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