# Why?



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

My H and I are getting on for the most part. Kids are home for Christmas and have been attending lots of parties together etc (too many as I am weighted down with work).
This last few days have been stressful for me as I have many deadlines with work and am trying to balance the home, job etc. He is off for the holidays and apart from a bit of gardening does little else. I get up early walk feed and walk dogs, do laundry etc before going to work. We have not had sex in a week (because of very late nights including him going out late for own office events, etc). 

I am not too bothered but I can tell it probably is bothering him though. Yesterday while I am trying to cook dinner he starts pawing at me, wanting to touch me etc and it irritated me as I was trying to get the dinner done as I knew I had to go back upstairs to finish off work. 
Why can't men see that a more loving way is to actually agree to do some of the bloody work, I asked him earlier, he said he would but did nothing at all so I had to come do it ( he went off to the shops to wander around for Christmas shopping ideas instead) Then he wants attention, no bloody way!

I told him I had no time as I was busy. After I had finished work etc I came downstairs to watch some TV before going to bed. He was on the couch so sat close and went to snuggle with him, he rebuffed me and said he had no time either. Then lifted some of the documents I had been looking at shuffled through them and said oh this is much more important and began to jokingly (but not really) poke fun at my work as being very important. I get it, he was getting back at me for earlier. But the thing is when he is under pressure at work, I stay out of his way, help him if he needs it and do not play games about him putting his work ahead of me. I am really teed off as it seems to me I have to be available to him on his terms.

This morning before work I told him to get up and walk dogs and I didn't do laundry and just went to work. 
2016 I require a new way of doing things but the most important thing is for him to respect my boundaries. I am just getting back into my career and a bit of support would be nice.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I'm sorry he was behaving so immaturely.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Husbands can be notorious dumbas**** . You need to do something, while you still love him, to shock him into seeing things your way. Leave and go stay with a friend indefinitely until he is begging for you to come back and convinces you that he understands where he screwed up. Then hold him to the change.
Otherwise, our bb brains just think you are only complaining because you're mad and it doesn't amount to much and the problem will go away.

Make no mistake, though, a good marriage takes two, and you withholding sex is a marriage no-no. You aren't the only person with tools.

You might also sit him down when you aren't mad, and explain it to him how he's making you seriously considering the marriage isn't working, then calmly get up and leave for a while.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

When a man is feeling it, days have Built up & he gets rejected.... this has a way of affecting his mood... his timing was BAD...true.... he should know better to help a little more.. but outside or this.. I'd give him a little leeway ...

Even as a woman.. I have been there, experienced that, getting an attitude or feeling hurt -if I felt the slightest rejection from my husband.. 

Where I differ from your husband was..... when my sex drive was on fire (days would have killed me- I wanted it every day!).. . I catered to his every need.. I pulled out every stop to turn him on... I sought out what he wants from me, anything to bring us closer together ....

I wanted his life to be as carefree as possible.. I made sure he got adequate amounts of rest, ate well.... No stress! as stress can limit a libido.. that was my enemy [email protected]#.... I MADE myself available any time of the day or night that HE may be in the mood.. mornings were best.. I'd set the alarm to get a romp in... 

and this brought us so much bonding.. 

Ask yourself.. what do you NEED from him to let go of this resentment ....is there resentment ?? If you NEED him to do a little more around the house.. to feel more Loved/ relaxed to get into the mood....please do talk to him.. but come at him -in a way to offer wanting to please him too....at least let him know you still want him.. 

Also.. its important when he's showing his need to at least give him something to look forward to... in a few hours, you'd be all his.. but can he help you right now to finish up what you are doing.. Now...IF he gets angry with this. he is the unreasonable one.. 

You want to go about this.. so you'll both get your needs met... could be your love languages are way off.. and you both feel you miss each other..

Not speaking.. playing tit for tat.. this will only snowball into a deeper rift...someone needs to open this up...break this dynamic..


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Could be he just doesn't value all the little things you do that you value tremendously. This is very common. My wife is constantly busy cleaning, cooking, helping the kids, etc. Not me - life is too short and I would rather the kids do their share, etc. But I don't fight her on this - it's what she values so she can do all that work.

Remember - once you tell a man to do a chore, you don't have to keep reminding him every 6 months! 

Regarding the sex - if this is how he emotionally connects with you it's not actually only sex he wants. But he probably doesn't realize that either. Be careful cutting this off or discouraging it - you could be telling him he just doesn't matter to you - in his mind - and he will stop connecting. Just like if a H stops talking to his W because it's "a bunch of unimportant things he doesn't care about". Again - that's the wrong attitude and conclusion but is equivalent to referring to a husband as "pawing" at you.

Have you tried sitting down and showing him a list of things you feel are important around the house? You have to spell it out because he may not even know half the stuff you're doing. If you can show him a list then you can discuss it. Ask him if these things are important to him too. If some aren't, find out why. Maybe those things don't really need to be done. The rest that you both value - ask what he thinks he can do in the list and how often he wants to do them.

I've tried for years to get my wife to spell it out - but she never gets around to it. So that's just a suggestion.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Btw I do all the bigger projects so I do plenty - just not much routine life maintenance. And W isn't much for larger longer term projects. So it works out


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## HogHead (May 14, 2013)

Go out and change the oil in your vehicles and see if it turns him on!


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

HH, He doesn't change the oil in our vehicles either, he pays someone to do it! 

Thanks for the replies, I 'know' the needs he has but his timing is shyte and to my mind selfish! 
Today I have decided to stay late in the office, he decided to go out late (he knows that I will always be there to cover everything at home, but that is gonna change in 2016) and I told him I wasn't coming home to cook or walk dogs. 
He said he would do it. Progress I guess, but tbh why are men like kids were every thing has to be spelt out like ABC. i want to have a responsible thinking adult as a partner not a kid.

He has told me in the past, he is lazy and knows I will do everything anyway and probably takes me for granted.....duh!

As the song goes ' a change is gonna come..........'

Thanks for letting me rant


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

When I get under a lot of stress for a period of time I love to take a break, turn to my partner and engage in some serious stress relief. Why is it that women turn away from their partner?


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

@aine, oh boy can I relate to your problem. Being taken for granted sucks. I've fought that problem for the majority of my 17 year marriage. One thing that has helped is reading his needs, her needs with my husband and doing the questionnaires. I figured out what his top five needs were and prioritized them in order of importance. I ve never cut out sex because that's his top need but I have stopped doing his laundry and cooking his meals and running his errands and doing things for his benefit in general, not because I was being vindictive but because my time and energy are finite. 

It's the pie chart (or balloon) theory. Every pie slice takes up X time and energy. You can only put so many slices in a pie pan before you run out of space, so you prioritize those slices that are essential to your life. Meeting your husband's needs should be part of the picture but if you can't fit all of your own needs (because he's not meeting them) and his all in the pan, you include the most important and set aside the rest. 

So figure out what's an essential need and what can be put on the back burner. Your H may or may not care one way or the other about back burner items but that's his burden to bear.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

aine said:


> HH, He doesn't change the oil in our vehicles either, he pays someone to do it!
> 
> Thanks for the replies, I 'know' the needs he has but his timing is shyte and to my mind selfish!
> Today I have decided to stay late in the office, he decided to go out late (he knows that I will always be there to cover everything at home, but that is gonna change in 2016) and I told him I wasn't coming home to cook or walk dogs.
> ...


They know we will pick up the slack, that is why. I think we instill in them if we nag and it does not get down, then, eventually we will do it. 

I remember one of the ladies on TAM, I think Tunera who stop doing his laundry. Just do yours. 

Have a talk with him again. Let him know you are going to focus on your career and if he expects you to give him some loving, then, he has to carry some of the household burden. If not they will not get done.

Stop doing everything. I know it's hard to stop giving a damn about the house but the dirt will be there when you are dead. 

If you are one for making fancy dinners, start leaving sandwich fixing instead. People start appreciating us when they cant eat.

The holidays are too damn stressful. Give him a list of things to do during the day. He needs a list. To keep him focus and to know what you wanted to get done. It is what it is, they need things pointed out to them. Sorry, but stick to your guns and he will get it.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

brooklynAnn said:


> They know we will pick up the slack, that is why. I think we instill in them if we nag and it does not get down, then, eventually we will do it.
> 
> I remember one of the ladies on TAM, I think Tunera who stop doing his laundry. Just do yours.
> 
> ...


This is priceless, all of it. 

Hopefully he'll care somewhat about most of what you are spending all your time doing, cause it is fairly likely he doesn't put anywhere near your importance on it <g>.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Just remember ladies. 

In the beginning there is a college student (male) with a box spring on the floor, a milk crate to sit on and a keg of beer. Only after the keg of beer stops being enough to attract the ladies do the upgrades begin.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

anonmd said:


> When I get under a lot of stress for a period of time I love to take a break, turn to my partner and engage in some serious stress relief. Why is it that women turn away from their partner?


I completely agree with this. I rarely (in fact, almost never) turn down my partner when he wants to fool around, nor does he turn me down. If I'm in the middle of dreaded chores and housework, I'll gladly put down the broom or mop for a roll in the hay .

And I find afterwards we are both in a very good mood and he's very receptive to, "Hey Babe, can you help me finish up these dishes?"  He becomes quite the worker bee and it's all good.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Don't know if this has been suggested, but the PA stuff just can't work.

Instead why don't you text and flirt with him all day and tell him you'll have more time to play tonight if you don't have to do laundry/cook dinner/whatever. Just tell him outright that those things are a drain on your energy but that you REALLY want to when you get home is ______ and be explicit.  But keep your promise - if stuff is done then get in the mood/make time for sex if chores are out of the way. If not, then do the chores and say "Sorry, hon, but I asked you to take some stuff off my plate so I'd have some energy left at the end of the day but you didn't and now I'm worn out."


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

When you decide to prioritize your career over your marriage, or the holidays over your marriage, your marriage will suffer. I don't mean to criticize you but what I notice is most people expect to be able to make a decision and have the rest of the world line up around your decision and nothing breaks.

If you are working this much your marriage will suffer. Your husband will not be happy. This is the affect of the choice you are making. The same goes for holidays. If you prioritize the holidays over your marriage, then your marriage will suffer. If you prioritize kids over marriage, then marriage will suffer. The thing is all of these things are choices and all of them have consequences. Your husband's life agenda is different than yours. He probably does not care about the holiday preparations nearly as much as you do. What you look it is he is acting like a child you have to micromanage is actually you trying to stuff your agenda on him and expecting him to care about it as deeply as you do. 

Now he has agendas that he cares about more than you care about, such as sex. 

So the nature of marriage is that there are times he has to show you he cares about your agenda more than his agenda, and there are times that you have to show him you care about his agenda more than your agenda. A successful marriage will find this balance. In reading your post, it looks like currently the marriage is not being highly priortized by either of you.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Hicks said:


> When you decide to prioritize your career over your marriage, or the holidays over your marriage, your marriage will suffer. I don't mean to criticize you but what I notice is most people expect to be able to make a decision and have the rest of the world line up around your decision and nothing breaks.
> 
> If you are working this much your marriage will suffer. Your husband will not be happy. This is the affect of the choice you are making. The same goes for holidays. If you prioritize the holidays over your marriage, then your marriage will suffer. If you prioritize kids over marriage, then marriage will suffer. The thing is all of these things are choices and all of them have consequences. Your husband's life agenda is different than yours. He probably does not care about the holiday preparations nearly as much as you do. What you look it is he is acting like a child you have to micromanage is actually you trying to stuff your agenda on him and expecting him to care about it as deeply as you do.
> 
> ...


This post is spot on.

Aine, beyond your approach that your husband is a man-child and needs to be managed, I would pay particular attention to this post, especially the part about your priorities being different.

ETA: I want to elaborate just a bit. My wife is messy, and is the queen of leaving things out/not putting them away. It drives me CRAZY, because I hate spending time looking for tools that she used and did not put away, or finding milk that was left out and not put away, etc.

But the thing is that she does not prioritize things the way I do. And the first thing I do is jump to the conclusion that she is disrespecting me, when in fact, it could not be farther from the truth.

And his dismissal of you? Pure passive aggressive childishness. However, your dismissal of him was pretty rude too. Think about the term you used: "Too busy". That communicates, through action, that whatever you were doing at that time has more value to you than him, or at least, that is how he feels. It was pretty rude too.

Do y'all even appreciate each other?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

All good. 

On a lighter note, a little rant once in a while is OK too. Better here or to your girlfriend than at to your husband too often .


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I agree with enjoli, tell him directly that it would be much easier for you to play around with him if you weren't stuck doing everything. Then tell him exactly what you want him to do. 

Unfortunate that he needs his hand held like a toddler, grown people should know what's involved in running the house. My hb knows dinner needs to be made and doesn't need me to tell him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

aine said:


> . Yesterday while I am trying to cook dinner he starts pawing at me, wanting to touch me etc and it irritated me as I was trying to get the dinner done as I knew I had to go back upstairs to finish off work.
> *Why can't men see that a more loving way is to actually agree to do some of the bloody work*, I asked him earlier, he said he would but did nothing at all so I had to come do it ( he went off to the shops to wander around for Christmas shopping ideas instead) Then he wants attention, no bloody way!


I'm going to play devil's advocate here...

*Why can't women see that a more loving way is to actually agree to have insanely wild sex, IF we as husbands agree to help right then and there with whatever work is going on. *THEN we would enthusiastically help instead of having to feel like we were rejected. 

9 times out of 10 when my wife does this to me, I am too tired afterwards for the wild and crazy sex that was promised. So it all balances out in the end! 

Cheers, 
Badsanta


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

You are making a common mistake in treating your husband with disrespect by thinking of him as a manchild because he doesn't care about mundane chores and has no idea how you fill your busy life. You describe him as though he is lazy. May he values calm and hates busy work,

When you rudely say he should be able to just figure out what needs to be done like an adult you are asking him to think like you and frankly to be a woman. 

I have a suggestion. Read his needs her needs like was suggested if you haven't already. Then realize most men want to be respected and looked up to. We are very easy to operate. 

When we want to feel emotional love for our wives, we want sex. Then the testosterone is reduced and we can better experience emotion. Have you considered that your busy task focus, career, Christmas planning are leaving him feeling vulnerable? Seriously think about that. What if you stopped, turned around and really focused on him for a minute. Really - I mean STOP thinking of all your distractions and FOCUS on him. You have no idea what it's like to be emotionally abandoned in your own house. I only understand my feelings because I saw a professional - guys don't even understand their vulnerability.

Next - with poise, calm and respect, talk about the house and projects. Ask if it's important to him. Listen to his answer. Show respect for his need for calm and focus. 

If you do this and show him the respect and admiration he needs, I bet $$$$ he will be receptive. Making demands, ridiculing, showing contempt or sustain - which peak through on your posts - are the opposite of what he needs and he will reject your requests because of it.

We're very easy - admiration, respect, sex - and combining them locks us in completely.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Btw I am not trying to admonish you at all. My communication style and though processes are very direct and compartmentalized - so I can come off as dispassionate, rude or condescending. I am working on it. But in your case I though you could benefit from direct language so chose that. I do agree he sounds selfish - but I am trying to tell you how to operate him better... Where you'll booth be happier with each other.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

TheTruthHurts said:


> You are making a common mistake in treating your husband with disrespect by thinking of him as a manchild because he doesn't care about mundane chores and has no idea how you fill your busy life. You describe him as though he is lazy. May he values calm and hates busy work,
> 
> When you rudely say he should be able to just figure out what needs to be done like an adult you are asking him to think like you and frankly to be a woman.
> 
> ...


You are making a common mistakes in your assumption that men are entitled to respect because they want it....they're not. They earn it just like everyone else.

Men who behave like men and handle stuff will get respect and admiration. .... that's what makes a real man. A guy who plops down on the couch until he's ready for sex is a man child.

Glad I'm not married to that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

brooklynAnn said:


> They know we will pick up the slack, that is why. I think we instill in them if we nag and it does not get down, then, eventually we will do it.
> 
> I remember one of the ladies on TAM, I think Tunera who stop doing his laundry. Just do yours.
> 
> ...


:iagree: with BrooklynAnn's method of handling the situation.

Aine, do you want to spend time with your husband? If so, then something's gotta give. If your husband won't step up to the plate to help you out with the chores, then you need to figure out which chores are important to you and which ones you can ignore. As long as your husband is not a burden, by which I mean adding to your already overwhelming workload, and he's not making demands of you to keep the house to some standard of cleanliness or cook hot meals, or do laundry daily, or do all of the planning for Christmas, then let it go. You can't change him but you can manage your resentment.

The housekeeping can be done when you have time. If you don't have time to do everything today, then leave it. It'll be there tomorrow. If you can afford it, I would recommend outsourcing the housecleaning to a service. Well worth the money to save your sanity.

Stop doing laundry every single day. Pick one day of the week, and do all of it then. Don't go out of your way to exclude your husband's clothes but focus on getting yours (and your children if you have them) done first. If his clothes fit with your loads, then great, do them as well. If they don't, then let him take care of his own stuff when he has time or energy.

Cook hot meals when you feel like cooking them. As far as I know, no one has starved from eating salads and sandwiches. 

Do the Christmas planning because it's something you like doing, not because you think it's expected of you by your spouse. 

Overall, lighten your load as much as possible. 

It's taken me a long time to recognize that I don't have to do it all to be Superwoman. I just got to do enough to bring me happiness. :smile2:


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Lifeistioshort please retread my post. You are projecting things I didn't say


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

aine said:


> ...This *last few days have been stressful for me* as I have many deadlines with work and am trying to balance the home, job etc. He is off for the holidays and apart from a bit of gardening does little else. I get up early walk feed and walk dogs, do laundry etc before going to work. We have not had sex in a week (because of very late nights including him going out late for own office events, etc).
> 
> *I am not too bothered but I can tell it probably is bothering him *though. Yesterday while I am trying to cook dinner *he starts pawing at me, wanting to touch me *etc and it irritated me as I was trying to get the dinner done as I knew I had to go back upstairs to finish off work.
> *Why can't men see that a more loving way* is to actually agree to do some of the bloody work, I asked him earlier, he said he would but did nothing at all so I had to come do it ( he went off to the shops to wander around for Christmas shopping ideas instead) Then he wants attention, no bloody way!
> ...





aine said:


> ... *I 'know' the needs he has but his timing is shyte and to my mind selfish!*
> Today I have decided to stay late in the office, he decided to go out late (he knows that I will always be there to cover everything at home, but that is gonna change in 2016) and I told him I wasn't coming home to cook or walk dogs.
> He said he would do it. Progress I guess, but tbh why are men like kids were every thing has to be spelt out like ABC. *i want to have a responsible thinking adult as a partner not a kid*.
> 
> ...


First off, a little advice from a man who nearly divorced his wife, because he was in a sex starved marriage.

One of the things that MW Davis discussing her her book The Sex Starved marriage is the "dance" that couples do to each other. If you look closely at your posts, you and your H are "doing the dance." Each of you is escalating to prove a point. It looks like he has backed down a little, but he may still be resentful.

Continuing to dance in a mutually destructive downward spiral in marriage is not going to result in a good outcome. If continuing to do the dance is what you want to prove some point, then divorce early and save each other years of pain.

It is clear that you do not feel that you are getting what you need. The recent stress has created a situation where you feel that with your re-entry into the workforce you want a change in who does what around the house. That is fine and that is appropriate. How you go about renegotiating that with your H is another matter. Remember you can't change anyone but yourself. You can inspire change and your can positively reinforce change by your husband or you can just negatively react to things you don't like. Positive reinforcement works a lot better, but you get to choose and get to live with the results.

Now to the points that I really wanted to get to when I saw your comments.

According to Chapman's 5 Languages of Love, my primary love language is touch. Listen very carefully to the following. What that being my primary love language means is that when I want to tell my wife how much I love her, I usually verbally tell her I love her, but also reach out to touch her. Sometimes it is just to hold hands, sometimes it is to rub her shoulder, sometimes it is a hug. IT IS HOW I AM PROGRAMMED TO SHOW MY LOVE. Touch is an important non-verbal way of communicating. 

My wife when she was upset with me and we had a Sex Starved Marriage, use to complain that I pawed at her, just to have sex. It took her a long time to understand that no, I was telling her that I loved her and wanted to feel close to her. She now understands that she needs to pay attention and figure out what is wrong when I don't reach out to touch her.

Yes, you H might have been reaching out to paw you and try to have sex with you, but I would wager that he knows that isn't the way to get you to bed. 

Now to the second point. Sex with my wife is really really important to me, especially because we have recovered from a sex starved marriage. I can tell you that if I don't have sex with my wife each week, I really loose that feeling of emotional connection or bonding to her. 

Many (not all) men have sex so that they can feel emotionally connected to the woman the love. Far too many women view their husband wanting sex as him simply wanting "pleasure" at her expense/effort. I want sex with my wife, so that I will feel emotionally connected to her. It is the way that I bond with her.

When my wife isn't in the mood, doesn't have the time to have sex with me, I have asked her to verbally tell me she loves me, touch me (express love to me in my primary love language), praise me (express love to me in my secondary love language--Sec Chapman's 5 LL), and then tell me that I need to get rested as when she gets a chance to sleep in the coming weekend or some day in the near future, she is going to F my brains out. I can live with that kind of "non-rejection" as it is a strong message in my love languages that she does love me, it is a statement that she wants to have sex with me, but not just right now.

Good luck to you and your H.


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

brooklynAnn said:


> Stop doing everything. I know it's hard to stop giving a damn about the house but the dirt will be there when you are dead.
> 
> If you are one for making fancy dinners, start leaving sandwich fixing instead. People start appreciating us when they cant eat.


You could implement "look after yourself night" once or twice a week instead of doing a full dinner. If all he has the effort for is cornflakes he gets to eat cornflakes for dinner.

If you are working late then get yourself something at work or on the way home. When he wants sex that's OK as you have already eaten and if he complains about being hungry afterwards just tell him with a satisfied smile that you just can't get up right now.

We are simple things but we do learn ...... eventually.

I do agree that if he is off work and at home all day or doing his own think and waits for you to get in and do all the household stuff then he is a selfish a**.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Lifeistioshort please retread my post. You are projecting things I didn't say


I read it, I just see it differently. 

My hb doesn't have to think like a woman to see I'm running around, and he knows that me running around will make me tired and cranky. So whether he knows what I'm doing or not he knows that I'm running around and he's sitting on the couch. 

Just as when I'm sitting on the couch and he's running around in the yard I know it and I'll often either offer my services or get him a cold drink. Doesn't matter if I actually know what he's doing. 

Hb will either come to me and offer his services or suggest I relax and sit down with him, at which point I'll either do it or tell him what I'm trying to do. He'll then offer to help because in the end he knows that I'm running around and he's not. 

We're partners this way.

Her hb knows she's running around and he's not, so why not offer his services like a real partner?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> I read it, I just see it differently.
> 
> My hb doesn't have to think like a woman to see I'm running around, and he knows that me running around will make me tired and cranky. So whether he knows what I'm doing or not he knows that I'm running around and he's sitting on the couch.
> 
> ...


Classic see any difference between what you expect and what you offer?

Specifically the offering him a cold drink part. 

If your hubby noticed you were engaged in some nasty cleaning  task and he got up off the couch and offered you a pair of rubber gloves how would that go over?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

anonmd said:


> Classic see any difference between what you expect and what you offer?
> 
> Specifically the offering him a cold drink part.
> 
> If your hubby noticed you were engaged in some nasty cleaning task and he got up off the couch and offered you a pair of rubber gloves how would that go over?


Nope, because I offer my services and if he takes me up on it I chip in. The drink is separate, sometimes he's cutting grass and there's nothing for me to do, at least what he wants. 

Likewise, sometimes he'll offer to help me but there's not much for him to do. And if i happen to need rubber gloves then he'll get them. 

The point is that neither of us would park on the couch while the other ran around without making an effort.

Good try though 

I could've been clearer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Hicks said:


> When you decide to prioritize your career over your marriage, or the holidays over your marriage, your marriage will suffer. I don't mean to criticize you but what I notice is most people expect to be able to make a decision and have the rest of the world line up around your decision and nothing breaks.
> 
> If you are working this much your marriage will suffer. Your husband will not be happy. This is the affect of the choice you are making. The same goes for holidays. If you prioritize the holidays over your marriage, then your marriage will suffer. If you prioritize kids over marriage, then marriage will suffer. The thing is all of these things are choices and all of them have consequences. Your husband's life agenda is different than yours. He probably does not care about the holiday preparations nearly as much as you do. What you look it is he is acting like a child you have to micromanage is actually you trying to stuff your agenda on him and expecting him to care about it as deeply as you do.
> 
> ...


I get everything you are saying absolutely. If you knew my 'story' you would see I prioritised my marriage and family and put myself last. Now I don't want to. I gave up a good career to support his career and raise my kids. He knows that now the kids are big I wanted to start back ( it's very important to me) but it seems in his eyes it's secondary if it affects him in any way. I asked him yesterday if I had hurt his feelings, first he said no, but then said yes and I apologised but now he is playing hard to get and frankly I am tired of his sensitive BS. He has hurt and let me down millions of times and I just get on with it and don't hold it over him for the next few days. Yes I know I am making a choice, he made the same choice 5 years ago to go all out in his career ( he has become very successful) but it did affect our marriage, I however got to the point of acceptance. Now he is on leave he expects me to drop everything, but this is a peak period for me, where is the understanding? It's not as if I haven't told him many times I have so much work to do. And I am not putting in any effort for the holidays, just the bare necessities. I also planned a family trip in the midst of the busy schedule.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

TheTruthHurts said:


> You are making a common mistake in treating your husband with disrespect by thinking of him as a manchild because he doesn't care about mundane chores and has no idea how you fill your busy life. You describe him as though he is lazy. May he values calm and hates busy work,
> 
> When you rudely say he should be able to just figure out what needs to be done like an adult you are asking him to think like you and frankly to be a woman.
> 
> ...


"YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IF FEELS LIKE TO BE EMOTIONALLY ABNDONED IN YOUR OWN HOUSE" 

That is where you are wrong. I have been left alone many nights while he travels, works all hours, rarely calls etc. so yes I know what it feels like, it hurt like hell, I pleaded with him to make an effort. It fell on deaf ears because he was busy supporting our family and ' bringing home the bacon, therefore what did I expect him to do? Stay at home with you' - his words. 
I want to work on the marriage but I will no longer sacrifice my needs. I imagine one reaps what one sews, I know that, if I put more effort into my work then it will damage my marriage but if he had put more effort into me then I might be more inclined to be available when he is on leave. It works both ways.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

IDK. I did encourage my wife to go back and get her masters degree when she told me she had always wanted to be a teacher. She had run a business but retired when we had kids, but then got a real estate then an appraisal license. Appraisal paid peanuts but was meaningful.

I encouraged her and she got her masters and is now in her second full year of teaching in her early 50s with many kids in middle through high school. And she loves it (early chikdhoof special Ed)

It cost $30k and we are looking at hundredths of thousands in college but it's only money. We have good kids and she is set up in the event in not around long term.

I do believe spouses should support each other: H is wrong not to support you. But you also seem resentful (?) that you put your career aside before to take care of the kids. That's too bad if you built any resentment for that - can't tell from your post - but it was your choice and you should be happy to have made it


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

Ain't, forget the chores and screw your husbands brains out. He can help you with chores next time.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

TheTruthHurts said:


> IDK. I did encourage my wife to go back and get her masters degree when she told me she had always wanted to be a teacher. She had run a business but retired when we had kids, but then got a real estate then an appraisal license. Appraisal paid peanuts but was meaningful.
> 
> I encouraged her and she got her masters and is now in her second full year of teaching in her early 50s with many kids in middle through high school. And she loves it (early chikdhoof special Ed)
> 
> ...


No, it was I choice I made because my H in those days was too busy partying and out late entertaining clients and the kids never saw us. So I decided to take a less taxing job so I could be home earlier though at that point I was earning double my H salary. In the long term it was a good decision as the kids turned out well adjusted, happy and healthy. However, if I had gotten support then maybe I would not have had to make that decision. But that is in the past and now it is like history repeating itself, going back to uni, working part time and now full time has not been easy but I can see that I wil never get the support I need, so I choose me. Am I resentful, yes maybe a bit. Haven't seen the counsellor in 3 weeks, will have to go back in January and work through this.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

karole said:


> Ain't, forget the chores and screw your husbands brains out. He can help you with chores next time.


You know what, I am working from home today, he came in the house, I brought him upstairs and just did! He's happy now :smile2: Me : well, I still have lots of work to get done. It all seems very transactional tbh.


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## where_are_we (May 24, 2013)

Why are women being disrespectful when they expect the man to participate in maintenance of their own living space.

some of us do not want to live like pigs in filth. 

It is NOT helping the women with the chores. Just like the man doesn't babysit his own child. 

People, please - quit saying that the man is HELPING her. That implies that it is solely her job to maintain the home. You both participate in the maintenance of the home. It is not 1950, and if you both work then one person should not be expected to do all the work.

I am so tired of hearing that whomever cares most about the mess is responsible for eliminating it. That's BS. People need to pick up after themselves.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

badsanta said:


> I'm going to play devil's advocate here...
> 
> *Why can't women see that a more loving way is to actually agree to have insanely wild sex, IF we as husbands agree to help right then and there with whatever work is going on. *THEN we would enthusiastically help instead of having to feel like we were rejected.
> 
> ...


And that's why I'm the psychologist here 

Because of the eternal fear of lowering the bar. Sex because you do X, then because you do Y where Y << X, then all of a sudden he puts a pod in the Keurig and wants sex afterwards...

Not sure if  is needed...


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## Spitfire (Jun 6, 2015)

Wow, he's being a first class ass. My wife went back to work full time this past summer. It only lasted a month but as soon as she started I came up with a system that would take the worries of the household chores off her mind. I'd pick my two boys up from school and when we got home they'd vacuum, change out the laundry, fold it and put it away, put away dishes and do their homework and I'd make dinner when I got home. It worked out well and they made ten dollars each per week lol. Five days a week we did this for a month. 

It sounds to me like your husband is pretty unmotivated.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

aine said:


> I get everything you are saying absolutely. If you knew my 'story' you would see I prioritised my marriage and family and put myself last. Now I don't want to. I gave up a good career to support his career and raise my kids. He knows that now the kids are big I wanted to start back ( it's very important to me) but it seems in his eyes it's secondary if it affects him in any way. I asked him yesterday if I had hurt his feelings, first he said no, but then said yes and I apologised but now he is playing hard to get and frankly I am tired of his sensitive BS. He has hurt and let me down millions of times and I just get on with it and don't hold it over him for the next few days. Yes I know I am making a choice, he made the same choice 5 years ago to go all out in his career ( he has become very successful) but it did affect our marriage, I however got to the point of acceptance. Now he is on leave he expects me to drop everything, but this is a peak period for me, where is the understanding? It's not as if I haven't told him many times I have so much work to do. And I am not putting in any effort for the holidays, just the bare necessities. I also planned a family trip in the midst of the busy schedule.


Everything you posted doesn't change things I said at all.

You aren't putting yourself last when you prioritize your marriage and family. You are creating something great that benefits you and others. You are holding his actions against him and you are not getting over it just as he is doing. His reaction to your bad wifing is to pout and act hurt. Your reaction to his bad husband is to focus on your career over your family.

You don't correct the imbalance in your marriage by declaring that after years of "sacrifice" it's time to focus only on yourself and what you want.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

john117 said:


> And that's why I'm the psychologist here
> 
> Because of the eternal fear of lowering the bar. Sex because you do X, then because you do Y where Y << X, then all of a sudden he puts a pod in the Keurig and wants sex afterwards...
> 
> Not sure if  is needed...


 @john117 generally speaking when I put the pod in the Keurig and expect sex, it is because all the pods were gone and the Keurig was in desperate need of some basic maintenance. ...and I went out in the garage and roasted some beans in my roaster. Ground them up and refilled the reusable pods. Refilled the little pod rack. Refilled the water tank with filtered water. And washed the mugs.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

badsanta said:


> @john117 generally speaking when I put the pod in the Keurig and expect sex, it is because all the pods were gone and the Keurig was in desperate need of some basic maintenance. ...and I went out in the garage and roasted some beans in my roaster. Ground them up and refilled the reusable pods. Refilled the little pod rack. Refilled the water tank with filtered water. And washed the mugs.


well, i don't know what a pod is and i don't know what a 'keurig' is, so i can't be guilty.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

jorgegene said:


> well, i don't know what a pod is and i don't know what a 'keurig' is, so i can't be guilty.


Careful there! By admitting that, you just narrowed down your location to NOT being anywhere near North America. 

We in america are so lazy to make coffee, we have made coffee into a weaponized machine that accepts ammunition shaped cartridges (K cups) and can brew up just one cup at a time in a matter of seconds.

Insert pod, press brew, five seconds later drink coffee!

Badsanta


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

aine

I am going to say some things here you probably won't like. I am going to be blunt in trying to get my point across. please read with an open mind and give consideration to what i am about to say.

YOU ARE HALF THE PROBLEM IN YOUR MARRIAGE.

you can come on here all you wish and gripe and complain about your husbands behavior. I have ready multiple female responses basically "cheer-leading" you and given you suggestions on how to "up your game" in dealing with him. you know, the only do your laundry, not his kind of thing.

the problem is, these types of responses, and your current behavior and outlook of him are very wrong.

do not misunderstand me. while i only have your word to go with on this, your husbands behavior needs to be addressed by him as well.

here is where you are going wrong. You have needs, I understand that. but so does he. YOUR needs are wants are not more important than his. You are engaging in covert contracts by "expecting him to do things" and then being passive aggressive or resentful when it doesn't happen. other here have pointed that out to you.

YOU are withholding needs from him because you feel justified to do so. in other words, round and round you folks go, effectively getting nowhere, except letting resentment and frustration build within each of you. it is dripping all over your post.

I am sure if he came on here, he could tell a story much like yours. he could say things like "she withholds sex" and "nags me all the time" and prioritizes everything else ahead of me" etc.

the bottom line is HE can only fix his issues. QUIT TRYING to fix him by engaging in aloof and contractual behaviors with him. YOU need to address YOUR issues.. and I highly doubt you recognize you have any. anyone can come on here and say "i'm not perfect" but most don't actually believe that. they think they are doing everything right and it ALL about the other person.

I offer you my opinion to help you fix your marriage and not continue down the destructive path you BOTH are on. i'm sure many here will disagree with me. Seriously counseling is in order for both of you.


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

aine said:


> You know what, I am working from home today, he came in the house, I brought him upstairs and just did! He's happy now :smile2: Me : well, I still have lots of work to get done. It all seems very transactional tbh.


how very sad. you open up physically and emotionally. He seems happy. instead of basking in the glow of the intimacy and care expressed in what you just did.......you are thinking of the work you need to get done and how it felt like a "transaction" ...........

its pretty obvious to me your husband is "fixture" in your life. in other words a possession or item to be used, stored or discarded when it fits your purposes.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

x598 said:


> aine
> 
> I am going to say some things here you probably won't like. I am going to be blunt in trying to get my point across. please read with an open mind and give consideration to what i am about to say.
> 
> ...


As one of those women encouraging Aine to start doing less, I assure you it's not to 'fix him by engaging in aloof and contractual behaviors'. It's actually to help her manage her growing resentment towards her husband. Most of us are telling her to lighten her load. It's not rocket science. 

There's only so many hours/minutes in the day in which we have to fit everything in. Additionally, our energy reserves are finite. Sadly, Aine's husband is not doing much to meet HER needs of housekeeping help, so she has to not only make up for his lack of meeting HER needs but as a good and loving partner, also has to continue to meet HIS needs. As I told her, something's gotta give.

There are high priority needs and low priority needs. Sex/intimacy is a high priority need for her husband, so I encourage her to meet it but with the understanding that one of his low priority needs, e.g. clean laundry, hot meals, christmas planning, or immaculate house, gets booted out. Let me explain it in a different way....

If it takes her 2 hours to do his and her laundry, but only 1 hour to do hers, by doing only hers, she's freeing up 1 hour that she can dedicate to other things. She can choose to spend that extra hour with her husband. 

If she's spending 6 hours a week keeping an immaculate house, she can either focus on the basic stuff (couple of hours a week max) or she can hire a cleaning service. She can choose to spend the extra four or six hours with her husband.

Cooking up hot meals takes up time that she could otherwise....you guessed it......be spending with her husband. 

Planning for Christmas can be really stressful. I'm telling Aine to not take it so seriously. Kick back and enjoy it because it makes her happy not because she feels it's her responsibility to make the holiday season special for everyone else. In the immortals words of Lois from Family Guy "_You all think Christmas just happens? You think all this goodwill just falls from the freakin' sky? Well, it doesn't! It falls out of my holly jolly butt! So, you can cook your own damn turkey, wrap your own damn presents! And while you're at it, you can all ride a one-horse open sleigh to hell!_"

Doing less of the 'mundane' things that Aine's husband seems to take for granted would actually free her up to spend quality time with him building intimacy. See how that works?


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Lila I love that post! Can't like it on my phone though 

I have been trying for years to get my wife to stop doing low priority things FOR HER OWN SELF! She still won't do it. Finally I told her - if she doesn't have time for herself, where is her time for me? That floored her. Now she does a bit less but feels guilty more - DOH! Oh well, baby steps.

Guess I'm saying your advise is awesome, but many people like aine and my wife find it hard to exclude things. Maybe I'm wrong about aine - hopefully so.

My W is amazing and we will keep working on it.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

@TheTruthHurts, 

I think my advice will work if two things happen: 

1) Aine can identify the things that truly make her happy, (I mean really, really happy) and make those a priority. Hopefully that list includes spending quality time with her husband, but if it doesn't, it's probably a sign that she's done with the relationship. Trust me, BTDT and can relate 100%. 

and, 

2) Aine's husband doesn't complain that he now has to meet his own lower priority needs such as doing his own laundry, cooking a hot meal when Aine is happy eating cold cuts and a salad, doing his own Christmas planning, or keeping an immaculate house (if that's what he wants). He may not like that what he asked for is exactly what he's getting, at which point Aine can readdress division of household chores. Either way, I think this is a win for Aine.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

When I posted the original post I didn't think I would get so many responses with varying views. There is much food for thought in each of them, I appreciate you taking the time. Some of the posts are particularly worth mulling over, which I intend to do when I get some quiet time. I know the love and respect issue is pertinent in my marriage, both ways. We tend to do the dance one poster mentioned and I usually give in. Does anyone ever feel they would rather live on their own, I feel like that now, it would be


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Aine check out pastapali7's recent post. You might find similarities. She laid everything out and got immediate positive and negative feedback but now they can work on the real issues. Her H is a psychologist so I bet they were able to be honest without getting defensive and going to blame which most of us do. 

If you can organize your thoughts, release your anger and resentment for a bit, be honest and not blame and listen without being defensive, maybe you'll be able to get to the next phase of this quicker.

In glad you were able to listen to us with our crazy and varied ideas, and reflect and try to take the best ideas.

Keep us posted on where you are


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Aine check out pastapali7's recent post. You might find similarities. She laid everything out and got immediate positive and negative feedback but now they can work on the real issues. Her H is a psychologist so I bet they were able to be honest without getting defensive and going to blame which most of us do.
> 
> If you can organize your thoughts, release your anger and resentment for a bit, be honest and not blame and listen without being defensive, maybe you'll be able to get to the next phase of this quicker.
> 
> ...


Thanks, I did but tbh my situation is different. I am at home alone tonight, catching up on some work, glad of the quiet.
My H played golf today (nothing wrong with that, he is on leave). Kids were home too but were supposed to meet him and go out with their aunt (his sister) too. He started drinking at noon with his golf buddies and was pissed by 7pm. He doesn't care how that looks to his kids or about the fact he insults them and his sister when they tell him they are not going out with him any longer (no-one wants to be around him when he is drunk, I had told my daughter he was drunk when he called, my son spoke with him and agreed). He sends his sister a nasty message but sends it to me by mistake. He calls her and berates her, i have to send a message to apologise but tell her I am thinking of divorcing him. He then goes off drinking some more at another place. He will probably come home at all hours and God only knows what he does there, I do not trust him at all. I put up with this on a frequent basis and will not go there again.

So I know deep down what I have to do, I cannot and will not live a life like this, he only cares about himself and he is getting nothing from me from now on. He denies he is an alcoholic but he is a functioning one to be sure. I am emotionally detaching, going back to my Al-Anon mantra, keeping my head down, getting my ducks in a row, to hell with the R and working on things, it looks like i have to take care of me. The only thing that concerns me is ensuring he financially takes care of the kids while they study. He is capable of deciding to jack it all in if I walked out now. The kids would suffer as a result.
I am ok, calm and rational, which is surprising because in the past my heart would race, i would be frantic, waiting up till he comes home, etc. i think this man has managed to break my heart so many times that there isn't anything really left. I just want to protect myself and start a life free of him. If I could walk away today without ramifications I would, and the sad thing he probably doesn't realise the damage he has done and continues to do. Do I hate him, no, I almost feel sorry for him.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

It's quite obvious your feelings are gone for your husband. From what I've seen from my own WalkawAy wife, they won't come back no matter what he does. The drinking thing would be a deal breaker for me if I were in your shoes. Lots of men, myself included, are self centered and lazy about housework. We are too stupid to see that the load isn't equal in such things as housework and taking care of the kids, after a day of work outside the home. 
If you still loved him, maybe you could move out and file for divorce and it would shock him into seeing your side of things more clearly. 
But, that doesn't seem to be the case. 
I suspect you are to blame quite a bit for letting things get that way.

However, your husband will take a while, but will finally come to the conclusion that who is to blame doesn't really matter when it comes to you and he. You are gone. Maybe he will self analyze and fix his problems and be happy with another woman. 
I am so sorry it has come to this for you. Since I carry my own cross on this, I am wishing you still had a little in the tank left to give him a chance to fix his bad stuff. But the truth is, he might not change permanently, and you don't see any faults in yourself, so it probably my wouldn't work even if you could try.
The doofus probably loves your kids or it wouldn't hurt him when they said they didn't want to go with him. Of course, he's too blinded to see that nobody should be around a drunk. It's sad he doesn't get help.

I wish you both luck in this incredibly painful process.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Evinrude58,

i take exception to some of the things you have written:

Quote:
1. I suspect you are to blame quite a bit for letting things get that way.

I am not to blame for his drinking and partying and irresponsibility! Never was and never will be. like all alcoholics he blames everyone except himself. Today I invited him to go shopping and lunch (because I thought he should be part of the christmas shopping for his kids and because I can talk with him etc and no longer have that ache inside of me like I was being broken into pieces, you are right I do not care enough anymore). You say I let things get this way? I tried to keep things together, in a foreign country with (then) two young kids, no support, financial or otherwise. I thought he would change, he did for a while, but there were ups and downs and I didn't want my family to break up as I myself am a child of divorce and it was hard. The kids are well adjusted and happy and away so all is good and I know I did the right thing in staying. Of course I want the marriage to work but at what cost to myself. I have got him to AA (he dropped out as he wasn't like them, they were bums he was not!), got him to church (sometimes he will go) got him to go counselling, marriage course etc etc. All to no avail.
My mistake was in not leaving when he cheated the first time, but I had a newborn and nowhere to go, my mistake was letting him walk all over my boundaries, my mistake was in not running the first time he was verbally abusive and punched doors, etc. (He doesn't do that now). But his drinking is NOT my responsibility. And the marriage is in the place it is because of it and his cheating and ability to walk all over me.

2. A little left in the tank - some days i do, some days the tank is dry and nowadays it is getting harder to muster any strength to continue, I need to take care of me because i have not for so long.

3. You keep mentioning my faults which I see in this post and another one. I wish you would elaborate. Yes, my fault is being a walk over, not being his mother and (she loves him regardless, he thinks i should too), not being respectful (it is hard to respect a man who hurts you over and over), losing my temper with him, seeing and remembering all of his faults, probably not being supportive, he reckons I wasn't there for him (when i was depressed, to hell with the fact I am in a full on depression). He has told me I have too much anger, but fails to see where it has come from. I went through the cycle of grief, knowing my marriage will probably never survive, knowing he really ultimately didn't give a d**** about me, abandoned me when i needed him most and was cruel in the things he said. i thought I was suffocating, my heart was broken, then i got angry for a year, the anger is gone and I don't care whether the marriage survives or not, he brought me to this place. 
I can play the wife role well, and will until it no longer suit me. He overplayed his hand, how can any man be so obtuse and ignorant to think they can act and behave the way they do and that eventually it wont come back to bite them in the a$$! 
Actually, I do not know why I am even sharing this with you because i suspect you are projecting some of your stuff with your own WAW onto me and my situation.

I do not know where this will end, but I am tired, I have been alone in this for a long time (yes friends listen) but no-one can truly know your innermost feelings and hurts. My normal for many years has not been normal at all, the facade and the faking of happy families, the emotional roller coaster, the false starts and stops, the promises which are always broken. I will not be a martyr any longer and do not have to be. I am almost free.


Just to add, the domestic issue has been resolved as of this week. H has got a lady to come and do cleaning and ironing, so big load of me which is great. Much of what wrote about is merely a symptom of deeper underlying issues and I agree we need serious counselling if we are so inclined. Now I am not.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

I'm sure glad my wife and I don't keep score of just how much we do in life..... 

Scott


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

aine said:


> Evinrude58,
> 
> i take exception to some of the things you have written:
> 
> ...


Hi, yes, you are not responsible for your husband's drinking. Have you told him, you are thinking about divorce?


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Yes, I have mentioned many times that I am moving out, for over a year and a half.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Sbrown said:


> I'm sure glad my wife and I don't keep score of just how much we do in life.....
> 
> Scott


I'm not sure I understand your comment. In the past I didn't keep score, now I do, to stop being an ostrich with my head in the sand and to stop being taken for granted. I have had enough. 
If you are a decent man who doesn't take your wife for granted, use and abuse her then why on earth would either of your keep score? Yours sounds like a normal relationship, mine isn't.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Sbrown said:


> I'm sure glad my wife and I don't keep score of just how much we do in life.....
> 
> Scott



Why not keep track? What he shows is a pattern of bad behavior where he cheated, was abusive neglectful, and an alcoholic that keeps on falling off the wagon and beleives himself above others. Wouldn't that be rug sweeping, and not to mention that counseling or anything else has not helped.

So, if your wife cheated on you like three times, you would forget the number of times? Or how about someone who constantly is abusive towards your loved ones, they should forgive and forget? It would work if the issues are resolved and the behavior changes, but it is ongoing.

My mother did not keep track of the number of times my father beaten her, the children, lucky for us she did not keep track, instead she wanted her marriage to work above our well-being. Now I have a somewhat distant relationship away from her and her codependent behavior. I kept track of my own mother's behavior and realize that being close to her would be detrimental to myself. I forgive her, but distance is best for my sanity.

My sister left her husband when he had drug problems. He showed some of the same behavior as aine's husband, except worse. During one of his drug binge, he dropped a gun and it discharged with my nephew in the room. He is five and currently getting help. Same atitude, everyone else is below him, and he feels like he can do whatever he wants and pay no consequence for his actions. Even without the gun incident, she should of kept track of his emotional abuse as he kept calling her fat and worthless during her pregnancy and afterwards when she was trying to lose the weight. He would apologize when she threatened to leave and after a while, go back to his old charming self.

It is not little annoyance like forgetting to put the dishes into the sink when you are done eating. There is a unhealthy level of severity.

@aine, do not let others guilt you and turn you into someone you are not by their assumptions that you are the main cause for the marriage breakdown. His actions have reactions. You have given him second , third , and so on chances. Most would tell you to divorce him after his cheating. And if others are concern about your well-being, you should have left long ago. Now you have a lot of issues to deal with after being with him. It was detrimental to yourself to stay with him. Years of prioritizing him , when he keeps causing hurt. Putting up with his cheating, neglect, abuse, and alcohol problems for years. His actions slowly destroyed your love for him, you did not choose to. His actions caused you to detach to protect yourself, which is what healthy people do from toxic people. LOL, we advise others to ditch toxic friends, but what happens if your spouse is toxic to you?

And do not let others guilt you for your boundaries. They are there for your own protection. For crossing your boundaries with nonchalance, shows how much he thinks about your boundaries. And to those that believe you should just give him sex, what has sex and affection has solved, nothing. Really, who wants to have sex with someone who thinks little about them and is dismissive of one's needs and boundaries.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Mr.Fisty said:


> Why not keep track? What he shows is a pattern of bad behavior where he cheated, was abusive neglectful, and an alcoholic that keeps on falling off the wagon and beleives himself above others. Wouldn't that be rug sweeping, and not to mention that counseling or anything else has not helped.
> 
> So, if your wife cheated on you like three times, you would forget the number of times? Or how about someone who constantly is abusive towards your loved ones, they should forgive and forget? It would work if the issues are resolved and the behavior changes, but it is ongoing.
> 
> ...


Mr Fisty, your posting (as usual) has hit the nail on the head. Noone can know anyones full situation and as some poster said, they would like to hear his side of the story, though he would never admit he has a problem with alcohol. Today he acted sheepish, I didn't get into it, as I dont want to waste my energy in that direction anymore. He made some comment blaming someone else making him drink so I told him off and asked "Did XYZ have a gun to your head?" NO? then stop with your BS, I am not interested in your excuses." We were in a restaurant so I changed the conversation but I am keeping score. I have got so used to keep up appearances, I can also pretend and be nice the next day. But now I have to pretend less, my kids are grown, I have to be true to myself, I have nothing to lose.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

aine said:


> Mr Fisty, your posting (as usual) has hit the nail on the head. Noone can know anyones full situation and as some poster said, they would like to hear his side of the story, though he would never admit he has a problem with alcohol. Today he acted sheepish, I didn't get into it, as I dont want to waste my energy in that direction anymore. He made some comment blaming someone else making him drink so I told him off and asked "Did XYZ have a gun to your head?" NO? then stop with your BS, I am not interested in your excuses." We were in a restaurant so I changed the conversation but I am keeping score. I have got so used to keep up appearances, I can also pretend and be nice the next day. But now I have to pretend less, my kids are grown, I have to be true to myself, I have nothing to lose.



Really, if someone wants a fulfilling life, then whomever they add on, should be complimentary. When should one's life revolve around another, that just neglects oneself. Which is unhealthy, and not to mention being committed to him, the constant forgiveness, and the sex, which some beleive will fix most of his issues, can only mask a problem for a while before the old behavior tends to resurface.

There was another poster who followed that advice of her giving him sex and he will alter his behavior and stop neglecting her. It worked for a while, but the old him slowly resurfaced and he started neglecting her all over again. Now she is biding her time and waiting for the children to grow up, or she has all her ducks in a row before she leaves him.

Funny how many posters advise her if she just give him sex, he would show affection. And when the honeymoon phase or the hysterical bonding wore off, he went back to his base personality. Nothing solved except she learned that if she wants more than an absentee partner whom only needs her as a roommate and a source of sex, she needs to protect herself. And if she wants a partner to reciprocate, she is with the wrong person.

She learned that the sex only help mask his own deficiency and it kept him motivate for a while. When it should of been for him to prove he can change his behavior and attitude before she risked herself again. Pretty sad when you expect neglect from your partner and receive it, only for them to acknowledge you when they need you for something.


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## Me Vietare (Nov 26, 2014)

What a prize you are. Get off looking in the mirror each morning and doing a Stewart Smiley affirmation? Too bad you're taken. I'm sure there are 1,000s of men who would just love to be made soul-smashingly miserable by associating with you. 

Do your hubby a favor. Leave him and pick up the hood, cloak and scythe and go across the land afflicting other men.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

WTF??? Dude, did you post on the wrong thread?


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Me Vietare said:


> What a prize you are. Get off looking in the mirror each morning and doing a Stewart Smiley affirmation? Too bad you're taken. I'm sure there are 1,000s of men who would just love to be made soul-smashingly miserable by associating with you.
> 
> Do your hubby a favor. Leave him and pick up the hood, cloak and scythe and go across the land afflicting other men.





aine said:


> Evinrude58,
> 
> i take exception to some of the things you have written:
> 
> ...




Why don't you put things into context and also blame the children as well. Why post if you are only going to spew hatred.

Good job on ignoring his faults to turn him into a victim instead, what is next, blaming her for his cheting as well, blame her for him being an alcoholic, and lets poll and see how many people think he is a prize.

An alcoholic who was abusive, cheated, and neglects. Glad you think that places her above him and she has no right not to be treated and that his actions did not cause her falling out of love and stop prioritizing him. I hope more people read this comment of yours. We have to point out BS where we see it.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

He's this horrible man and husband but you're still having sex with him, still playing house with him? Why not pack up and go? 

Scott


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Sbrown said:


> He's this horrible man and husband but you're still having sex with him, still playing house with him? Why not pack up and go?
> 
> Scott



I would still have sex with my STBX if:
A) He liked sex
B)...hmmm...thought there was a B) in there. Oh well (channeling Dory from "Nemo"...hehe)

We have to "play house" until it sells. 

You seem very bitter and I'm sorry for that. 

You never really know what's going on in other people's lives. The little old lady who's doing 25 in a 45 might have just had a pain shot in her hip and had no one to drive her home so she has to be extra careful. Get it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

Lol I seem bitter for pointing out the obvious? 

Scott


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Sbrown said:


> Lol I seem bitter for pointing out the obvious?
> 
> Scott



That's all you got from my post? Defensiveness?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

Elizabeth001 said:


> That's all you got from my post? Defensiveness?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Lmao....there wasn't much else in it to respond too.... you can read into text almost anything you want. If you see bitterness and defensiveness by all means go ahead, I won't lose any sleep over it. 

Scott


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## Me Vietare (Nov 26, 2014)

So page 3 and post 35 hubby suddenly turns into a alcoholic ass instead of a simpleton lay-about. Convenient to change the narrative. Somewhere there is an unattended bridge me thinks.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Me Vietare said:


> What a prize you are. Get off looking in the mirror each morning and doing a Stewart Smiley affirmation? Too bad you're taken. I'm sure there are 1,000s of men who would just love to be made soul-smashingly miserable by associating with you.
> 
> Do your hubby a favor. Leave him and pick up the hood, cloak and scythe and go across the land afflicting other men.


Wow! Caustic much? And I do not know who Stewart Smiley is (spelling?). I am afflicting my H how exactly? Sounds like you either got out of the wrong side of the bed or are projecting your s*** onto me, either way you sound like a prize yourself! Perhaps you didn't actually read my thread, you obviously cannot spell either, btw it is not Stewart Smiley it is "Stuart Smalley."


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Elizabeth001 said:


> That's all you got from my post? Defensiveness?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


KIds, stop it please!:grin2:


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Me Vietare said:


> So page 3 and post 35 hubby suddenly turns into a alcoholic ass instead of a simpleton lay-about. Convenient to change the narrative. Somewhere there is an unattended bridge me thinks.


There is no unattended bridge, there are other posts with everything there. I have chosen to live with the on and off drinking episodes and put that aside and hope we can have a normal marital relationship but as some other poster said, we probably need serious counselling. I go to IC and feel there is just so much garbage in the marriage, I either accept it and rug sweep which I have done for years or leave it, no counsellor can get us out of the mess we are in.

BTW my H is not a simpleton by any means, he is a very clever and successful man, he is not a layabout just someone who chooses to put himself first every time. God, why am I explaining anything to you, you think and believe whatever you want. You obviously like jumping to conclusions and making assumptions.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Sorry you're here but sounds like you know where this is going. You deserve to be happy and enjoy life. Just sayin'


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Post below is yet another example of why I am so fond of Lila. 

This is an area where 'in general' seems that women out perform men. 

It is absolutely ok to make a list of everything that needs doing, and then agree on a fair split. Even so, accept that some level of incremental effort on your part may be required. 

When I clean the kitchen, it's mostly clean. M2 cleans it, looks like an operating room just before surgery. We BOTH have a sense of humor about that, and I'm not cranky about gentle suggestions such as: if you get a chance to wipe the counters. 

Besides, M2 taught me the coolest QA step on surfaces. You crouch down til your eye level with the surface, and you can even see LITTLE TEENY CRUMBS. 





Lila said:


> :iagree: with BrooklynAnn's method of handling the situation.
> 
> Aine, do you want to spend time with your husband? If so, then something's gotta give. If your husband won't step up to the plate to help you out with the chores, then you need to figure out which chores are important to you and which ones you can ignore. As long as your husband is not a burden, by which I mean adding to your already overwhelming workload, and he's not making demands of you to keep the house to some standard of cleanliness or cook hot meals, or do laundry daily, or do all of the planning for Christmas, then let it go. You can't change him but you can manage your resentment.
> 
> ...


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Christmas and New year is done and dusted, had a good time in general with kids, family, friends, holiday, etc. Now it is just 'us' again. I am working so not home much, he got really drunk early Jan one night and was a mean p*** to me, I realise I have taken so much c*** from him and just let it go and moved on. You know the saying that the truth comes out when the alcohol is in, well I heard some choice stuff. 
I called him out on it a a few days later, he says he has a lot of unresolved issues from childhood and lashes out at those he loves to push them away. I believe it but it is not ok to use me as the verbal punching bag. And it is always about him and his feelings and his issues, what is new!
We sleep in the same room, no physical relationship because I cannot have him near me in that way. He has really hurt me with his words in early Jan and it is not ok. He knows this and has acknowledged it but then changes the subject. I don't want to be that unforgiving bitter person, I am not bitter at all but I am not going to simply let it go, my tolerance level/breaking point has gotten much too high.
I am not looking for advice, just documenting to a certain extent, part of me hopes part of me knows that if things do not change then well.....as a poster said I know where this is headed. I am back at the gym, enjoying my new job so that is good.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

aine said:


> My H and I are getting on for the most part. Kids are home for Christmas and have been attending lots of parties together etc (too many as I am weighted down with work).
> This last few days have been stressful for me as I have many deadlines with work and am trying to balance the home, job etc. He is off for the holidays and apart from a bit of gardening does little else. I get up early walk feed and walk dogs, do laundry etc before going to work. We have not had sex in a week (because of very late nights including him going out late for own office events, etc).
> 
> I am not too bothered but I can tell it probably is bothering him though. Yesterday while I am trying to cook dinner he starts pawing at me, wanting to touch me etc and it irritated me as I was trying to get the dinner done as I knew I had to go back upstairs to finish off work.
> ...


how much you pay your employee?


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