# "Mind of a cheater wife"



## Pepe1970 (Aug 25, 2017)

Hey guys
I already posted my case few months back, so won't be going into details but just to generalize, my wife confessed to me (about 10 months back) of her cheating with some guy. Fast forwarding we're working in our marriage with some improvements.
Now there is always something in my mind taking the challenge of competition with the other man, which is normal being the one cheated on.
I mean...........
I feel myself in a bit of disadvantage when it comes to intimacy with my wife (including sex) since she's been with another man no less than two years ago.
There are a lot of question marks in my mind when we are together like....... Does she ever compare me to him? Do I trigger any memory of him when they were together?
She has told me she never think of him at all, which I never believed. They had a very good time during the 3 year affair. 
To those women who cheated or still cheating and still with their husbands ............ Do you ever look at your husband and think: "aww look at my poor hubby, trying to keep up"
What's the asnwer to that?

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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

Search for a 20 minute TED Talk by Helen Fisher: Why we love, why we cheat. I think it might help.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Pepe1970 said:


> Hey guys
> I already posted my case few months back, so won't be going into details but just to generalize, my wife confessed to me (about 10 months back) of her cheating with some guy. Fast forwarding we're working in our marriage with some improvements.
> Now there is always something in my mind taking the challenge of competition with the other man, which is normal being the one cheated on.
> I mean...........
> ...


Pepe all I can tell you is that during the affair your WW probably never thought of you at all. 

It is called compartmentalization. Think of the whole thing as a shelf of boxes. You and the marriage are in one box. When she was cheating she would close the marriage box, shove it to the side and open the affair box. Nothing of her affair and her love for you ever mingled together. She kept the affair completely separate...in her mind. You were never a factor. 

You need to sit her down and ask her these questions, not us. She owes you honest answers. The fact that you and her have not discussed this tells me the communication between the two of you is still not good. That's dangerous. 

She probably loves you and is satisfied with you, but there is something broken and missing inside her that compelled her to look outside the marriage for validation. Some people need more than one person to validate them. They crave being liked and desired. It's because they have a hole in them they are trying to fill up. 

Fist thing you need to do is verify if the affair is actually ongoing. Sometimes cheaters will go deep underground to keep the affair alive. They will double their efforts to keep it under wraps. So you need to sleuth and look at all your WW's electronic devices to make sure she isn't finding some nefarious way of keeping it going. If it isn't, then you need to find out of this affair was the only one she had.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Yes, she still thinks about him. Might not be every day, but she still thinks about him.

Yes, she did — and still does — compare the two of you.

Sex may or may not be a trigger for her. Definitely was at first, which persisted throughout the affair on through probably at least a few months after discovery/the end of the affair. Depends on the timeline.

If she flatly denies any of this then she’s lying.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

Often when people have affairs they're more turned on and thus have better sex with their AP than their spouse. My XWW told me her AP was the best sex she ever had. I didn't take it personally though because I knew it had nothing to do with me (I hear I'm awesome in bed by every woman I'm with) and that it was only the extra excitement of doing something secret with her lover and breaking the rules that excited her, which is something I couldn't offer as her husband. So, yes, your wife probably enjoyed sex far more with her AP than you and probably did things with him that are off limits to you. The way to counter that is to D your wife and have much better sex with the other women that you date after her. Or you can accept the situation as is and find a way to not let it haunt you.


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## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

Of course she still thinks of him.
You can bet your life savings on the fact there was a comparison going on and maybe to this day.

Just the nature of the beast. 

That's why I refuse to play in a WW fantasy land. 
YMMV.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

Of course she thinks you're trying to keep up. Cheaters love the "pick me" dance.

She compares you.

She thinks about him.

Cheaters lie to protect themselves. That's their nature.

Staying with a cheater is much like jumping into a cactus bush. It's kind of fun, but you know there will be extreme pain to follow.


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## hoblob (Mar 28, 2018)

It really depends how often they have sex. You have a ONS, I doubt they're still thinking of it, especially if ashamed about it.

I mean, my GF had a bf for years before me and a couple of other sexual partners. So i am being compared to several people in bed including the two times she had sex with that OM (one of them drunk and she is a terrible drunk lay). The real competition is her first boyfriend who she was with for 4 years. (and is better looking than me)

A 3 year affair is of course different then, because they had sex so often and it was the only real connection they had. He made her feel good and she gave him sex (and she certainly enjoyed it). I definitely think she still thinks of him. 3 years is a long time. 

My best sex was actually a woman i slept with 4 times in a span of a week. The Orgasm lasted so long with her. She was just so good. It happened 13 years ago and I still get goosebumps thinking of it.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

First, what happened to your sex life with her during the affair. Did it go up, down stay the same? Is it better now, worse?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@Pepe1970 I think counselling as a couple and as individuals will likely be of benefit.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> pepe all i can tell you is that during the affair your ww probably never thought of you at all.
> 
> It is called compartmentalization. Think of the whole thing as a shelf of boxes. You and the marriage are in one box. When she was cheating she would close the marriage box, shove it to the side and open the affair box. Nothing of her affair and her love for you ever mingled together. She kept the affair completely separate...in her mind. You were never a factor.
> 
> ...


^this!!


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

I got news for you. 

Infidelity or no, you're getting compared to every lover she has ever had. Just like you do with her.

It's the nature of the beast.

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## Pepe1970 (Aug 25, 2017)

MattMatt said:


> @Pepe1970 I think counselling as a couple and as individuals will likely be of benefit.


That's something we can't affort this time

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## USD2018 (Apr 4, 2018)

Your instincts will give you the answers to your questions. Just the fact that you are asking these questions should give you your answers. Part of accepting a cheater back into your life, or never getting space from them in the first place, is either a) you issuing total forgiveness (which is unlikely because she betrayed you big time and this must have been devastating to your relationship and self-esteem) or b) you are deceiving yourself into thinking that staying together is a good idea. 

Staying married is not a good idea, especially if you cannot get counseling. 

Infidelity, especially of the measure she has committed, is an unforgivable offense in my opinion. Even by the standards of most religions, the sanctity of marriage is dissolvable when infidelity occurs. What is the point of being married if your wife cannot commit? She might say she is committing now and never thinks about him, but that makes me wonder who is filling her thoughts now? Once a cheater, always a cheater.


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## Pepe1970 (Aug 25, 2017)

Bananapeel said:


> Often when people have affairs they're more turned on and thus have better sex with their AP than their spouse. My XWW told me her AP was the best sex she ever had. I didn't take it personally though because I knew it had nothing to do with me (I hear I'm awesome in bed by every woman I'm with) and that it was only the extra excitement of doing something secret with her lover and breaking the rules that excited her, which is something I couldn't offer as her husband. So, yes, your wife probably enjoyed sex far more with her AP than you and probably did things with him that are off limits to you. The way to counter that is to D your wife and have much better sex with the other women that you date after her. Or you can accept the situation as is and find a way to not let it haunt you.


Again we're working on this marriage and doing very good.
The thing is, she told me the other day, the whole last week she was Soo horny that she wanted a good f**k. Since I happen to be the husband, she let me know.
I couldn't do it. I made many excuses to delay it till her "hornyness" wore out. I told her I was tired and went to sleep early whole week.
I'm sure she was a bit disappointed but also awared that was one consequence of her cheatings since I felt that way.
Having in my mind that dilemma about her past affair and sure fulfilled sex fantasy with the other man killed my desire to measure up or at least try it. After all she's my wife and I want to satisfy her.

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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Maybe it's a deal breaker. Some decisions you can't take back. Maybe that is the deal here, after all it's been two years and it's not getting better. You are struggling very hard for so little. After all how valuable is a relationship and a wife who is not loyal to you. All this effort for what really? What has she done to try to make up for the fact that she cheated on you?


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## Handy (Jul 23, 2017)

* Pepe
she told me the other day, the whole last week she was Soo horny that she wanted a good f**k.*

I understand your reluctance to have sex with your W at the time. Next time ask her if she will make you cum so hard it will drain you nuts dry. In other words, make her work for and earn a good session of sex and romance.

It might make her think more of you than the other guy. As it is now, she got turned down and maybe she thinks the OM wouldn't turn her down so in effect he is a better lay than you are.

I am offering my opinion in the light of helping you to NOT dig a deeper hole that takes more work to get out of in the future.

Men and women usually have a need to feel desired and a need to feel valued. People get the valued and desired parts from different things. Hopefully, if you give her the right form of valued and desired the OM value will decline. You don't have to do the "pick-me" dance but you can earn a few value points by filling your W's love bank.

This is part of trying to R. If you want to end the M, than that is a different path.

As what do cheaters think. I guess it goes along the lines of their "love language" and who fills that need. I have read a lot of women want attention, which gets their Oxycontin level up, which leads to bonding, and then maybe sex. Other women want other things, such as excitement or to live the high/expensive life.

Are you better than the OM? Well that is a black or white way to look at her affair. There is a joke that women need 3 men in their life. One to bring in the $$$. One to pay attention to her and be a good dad. And the third to wine, dine and travel with her. 

I see your question as does your W think of the OM and compare the two of you as "it depends" on which role the OM played in the 3 husbands joke. The OM might (all speculation on my part) have been better at wine and dine or at having more fun (no household responsibilities) but you might be better at the other 2 tasks than the OM. Again, this is just a hypothetical answer to give an example of how it might be.

Another way she 'might feel" during sex with you is shame she feels for having the affair and remorse for betraying you and the sexual bond with a fool (OM). 

I say, worrying about, if she thinks of the OM during sex, It interferes with what is happening during the now when things are happening. To me it is self defeating to worry about the OM and what she thinks. You can read stories about men that think their penis size isn't up to par (but it is) and it (his attitude) comes across to the woman and impacts their relationship in a negative way. Instead of worrying about negative things or possibilities, work on what you bring to the relationship that makes the relationship better for BOTH of you. I think that would be more productive.


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## hoblob (Mar 28, 2018)

USD2018 said:


> Infidelity, especially of the measure she has committed, is an unforgivable offense in my opinion. Even by the standards of most religions, the sanctity of marriage is dissolvable when infidelity occurs. What is the point of being married if your wife cannot commit? She might say she is committing now and never thinks about him, but that makes me wonder who is filling her thoughts now? Once a cheater, always a cheater.


I agree and disagree. Once a cheater always a cheater is proven to be false. Many people reform. I think that is a view in which people can't grow, which is inherently false. People mature and learn from their mistakes. 

But I do agree that a 3-year affair needs counseling. I mean that is a long time to justify infidelity. Sneaking around, having two lives basically. What was her punishment. Did you just accept her back with open arms. There has to be some sort of repercussion to her actions. 

Did she deny you sex during those 3 years?


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

I am going to get bashed for what my client did, his wife had an affair two years ago. They "reconciled". She worked her ass off, to keep him from tossing her out on her ear. She thought that it was behind them. He said he waited, he got back the mojo with his wife. They were in the best place they had been in years. There was sex and intimacy, but that had been there before dday. Then he dropped the bomb. He told her point blank that he did not consider them rebuilt or reconciled. She was aghast. This was two years ago. It was a mistake, she said. He said once is a mistake, a few months was to be frank, an insult. She kept on, I thought we were past this. Then the second bomb dropped: He said that he could not stand the fact that she had another penis in her, and there were two choices in the matter: accept that at some point he was going off the reservation so to speak, or break up now. He put her in an impossible position, this was essentially blackmail. She said, if you have an affair then I am walking. Third bomb. He stated that he had been in an affair for six months. Dday all over again. This time it is her. He says to her, feels like **** don't it? I am leaving for a while, you can decide what you want. There was no reconciliation until you got to experience what I got. So we reconciled, I want the marriage, BUT, I want you to feel your insides burning. I want you to feel like you were kicked in the crotch. You have to get it all, just like I did. Yours was a random guy from CL, mine was from AM. She was young and pretty, and we ****ed like two rabbits, just like you and your AP. He flashed her a few pictures off his phone, including some porn shots. She got the entire picture. He walked, and said that she could call with her thoughts.

He left. She realized that he did to her, what she did to him. She got the entire rollercoaster shoved up her nose in one fall swoop. He patterned his affair after hers. Younger partner, six months, sex, sex and sex. She went dead silent for a week. Everyone she talked to literally laughed in her face, she was told that karma is a ***** and the bus just ran over her. She told her Mom, who said that he was right in doing this to her, and she should have expected it. She kept going over and over how she worked for the reconciliation. Her husband flushed the two years of reconciliation, and she said that she was willing to flush the marriage. It was pointed out to her that revenge is a dish best served cold. And cold it was. He got her. She realized that this was absolutely necessary, otherwise the marriage would have been over sooner rather than later. Two weeks later, when she calmed down, they went out for coffee. They talked. She said that he offered no apologies, and niether did she. He asked if she still wanted to be married, and she said, as long as we never do this to one another ever again. The marriage is back. It was the only way he could go back, and she realizes. They will never stray again, as both know the pain of betrayal.


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## OutofRetirement (Nov 27, 2017)

Did you ever compare one former lover to a current? I think it's more likely to happen during an affair than after, but definitely the more recent the previous lover the more likely one will compare. 5+ years later, memory fades.

Prior to her affair, what were her complaints to you? 

I have a question for you? Is your wife the best sex you've ever had? What were/are her deficiencies sexually? If you have limited experience, do you think it possible another woman can perform sexually than your wife?

How about her feeling about cheating g on you? Is she feel like she has to step it up a bit or else you'll want to leave her? If you don't feel this way, that you expect a whole lot more now, why not? Do they you deserve your fantasy, too? If not with your wife, than with another woman? 

Trick question: How many men can be the best lover? Numerous uno?

I have had a lot of experience. I had a lot of compliments and never had any complaints. I've been told several times I was the "best ever." Two of those broke up with me. One was too old for me? One wanted to experience other men before settling down (at least she was upfront and honest). My wife never complained but never cheered. Seemed like she always was enjoying herself. But she cheated anyway.

My personal experience, though I can't believe I'm all alone: my thing feels just about the same in every woman. Basically the equipment and how they function are very similar. Two differences that make a difference: Her enthusiasm, and my mental place. If I am preoccupied with significant matters, if I am angry or resentful of her, it will not be as good. It would have nothing to do with her physical skills. 

I think you make more out of it than it is. If she's excited mentally because of newness or forbidden fruit, the only way she can get that is to cheat. She can divorce you and date men, but it will no longer be forbidden fruit.

My advice: Be more selfish. Don't worry if she's happy. Let it be all about you for a while. Tell her it was all about her for three years, now the next three years is all about me. You sacrificed to stay with her with all of the resultant baggage. Is that all there is? You worry about your performance? What if you're subpar? She'll leave you? Or cheat again?

Think about it. Come up with your expectations for you and her regarding g your feelings about comparisons to other men.


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## USD2018 (Apr 4, 2018)

hoblob said:


> I agree and disagree. Once a cheater always a cheater is proven to be false. Many people reform. I think that is a view in which people can't grow, which is inherently false. People mature and learn from their mistakes.
> 
> But I do agree that a 3-year affair needs counseling. I mean that is a long time to justify infidelity. Sneaking around, having two lives basically. What was her punishment. Did you just accept her back with open arms. There has to be some sort of repercussion to her actions.
> 
> Did she deny you sex during those 3 years?



Okay, I guess it's not technically true in every case that cheating is an irredeemable offense. That's my own personal feeling about infidelity. 3 years of infidelity unveils other offenses like you mention: having two lives. That level of deceit is a deep hole to crawl out of.


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## hoblob (Mar 28, 2018)

USD2018 said:


> Okay, I guess it's not technically true in every case that cheating is an irredeemable offense.


Offense is different than trait. For you, it may be an irredeemable offense. Nothing wrong with that. But I just think it cuts people short in general that they can't learn from their mistakes. I say that as a public defender that has seen many people reform their lives after spending time in jail. Same with a person that cheats. Some cheaters are irredeemable, no doubt, but others will never do it again after seeing the pain they've caused. 

But yeah. I think the LTAs are really messed up. Why stay married? I mean i've heard of people that cheat during half of their marriages. Sometimes they start right after getting married. Mind-boggling stuff. And that can't just be swept under the carpet and ignored. By neither party.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Pepe,

No doubt she does think of him 3 years is a long time it's more like a second husband than a fling. 

Your W may even try things on you she tried on OM. 

I know every so often my W tries something I believe she tried on or learned from OM2. She shrinks away from me when tries to do it, I think the guilt gets to her and she can't enjoy it like she used to. It is a silly thing but it used to produce intense orgasms for my W possibly when she remembered OM2.

Tamat


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Pepe1970 said:


> That's something we can't affort this time
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


Here are some links to free and affordable counselling and help:-
https://lifehacker.com/top-10-free-and-affordable-mental-health-and-counseling-1788814933
https://www.7cups.com/
https://myshrink.com/online-crisis-counseling/

I can make no promises as to how good they are, but hope they'll be of some use.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Pepe,

I read a few of your old posts, you said your W was in a 5 year emotional affair as well as a 3 year physical affair with two different men?

Did you ever expose or confront the OMs or have your WW take a polygraph?

Has your WW tried to provide you with just compensation or remorse or anything?

Tamat


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Pepe all I can tell you is that during the affair your WW probably never thought of you at all.
> 
> It is called compartmentalization. Think of the whole thing as a shelf of boxes. You and the marriage are in one box. When she was cheating she would close the marriage box, shove it to the side and open the affair box. Nothing of her affair and her love for you ever mingled together. She kept the affair completely separate...in her mind. You were never a factor.
> 
> ...


*Yeah! I know, all too well, how that works! 

My RSXW definitely had/has a "void" in her that constantly needs filling! 

And by multiple men from her past, no less!*


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

I was a WW in my first marriage. Yes, I compared my exH and OMs. Yes, I thought about my OMs from time to time. Less as the years went by. No, I didn't tell my exH that because my OM were ....personal, private, something for me and me alone.


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

Taxman said:


> I am going to get bashed for what my client did, his wife had an affair two years ago. They "reconciled". She worked her ass off, to keep him from tossing her out on her ear. She thought that it was behind them. He said he waited, he got back the mojo with his wife. They were in the best place they had been in years. There was sex and intimacy, but that had been there before dday. Then he dropped the bomb. He told her point blank that he did not consider them rebuilt or reconciled. She was aghast. This was two years ago. It was a mistake, she said. He said once is a mistake, a few months was to be frank, an insult. She kept on, I thought we were past this. Then the second bomb dropped: He said that he could not stand the fact that she had another penis in her, and there were two choices in the matter: accept that at some point he was going off the reservation so to speak, or break up now. He put her in an impossible position, this was essentially blackmail. She said, if you have an affair then I am walking. Third bomb. He stated that he had been in an affair for six months. Dday all over again. This time it is her. He says to her, feels like **** don't it? I am leaving for a while, you can decide what you want. There was no reconciliation until you got to experience what I got. So we reconciled, I want the marriage, BUT, I want you to feel your insides burning. I want you to feel like you were kicked in the crotch. You have to get it all, just like I did. Yours was a random guy from CL, mine was from AM. She was young and pretty, and we ****ed like two rabbits, just like you and your AP. He flashed her a few pictures off his phone, including some porn shots. She got the entire picture. He walked, and said that she could call with her thoughts.
> 
> He left. She realized that he did to her, what she did to him. She got the entire rollercoaster shoved up her nose in one fall swoop. He patterned his affair after hers. Younger partner, six months, sex, sex and sex. She went dead silent for a week. Everyone she talked to literally laughed in her face, she was told that karma is a ***** and the bus just ran over her. She told her Mom, who said that he was right in doing this to her, and she should have expected it. She kept going over and over how she worked for the reconciliation. Her husband flushed the two years of reconciliation, and she said that she was willing to flush the marriage. It was pointed out to her that revenge is a dish best served cold. And cold it was. He got her. She realized that this was absolutely necessary, otherwise the marriage would have been over sooner rather than later. Two weeks later, when she calmed down, they went out for coffee. They talked. She said that he offered no apologies, and niether did she. He asked if she still wanted to be married, and she said, as long as we never do this to one another ever again. The marriage is back. It was the only way he could go back, and she realizes. They will never stray again, as both know the pain of betrayal.


Interesting. 
I know I could never take back a cheater and I can see how this might level the playing field but this seems like a lot of pain to go through to save a relationship (marriage or not). Easier just to leave.


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

MJJEAN said:


> I was a WW in my first marriage. Yes, I compared my exH and OMs. Yes, I thought about my OMs from time to time. Less as the years went by. No, I didn't tell my exH that because my OM were ....personal, private, *something for me and me alone*.


Yeah that sounds about right.............


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

USD2018 said:


> Okay, I guess it's not technically true in every case that cheating is an irredeemable offense. That's my own personal feeling about infidelity. 3 years of infidelity unveils other offenses like you mention: having two lives. That level of deceit is a deep hole to crawl out of.


Exactly, it exposes a wide range of flaws and weaknesses in that person. Exactly why most go to so much trouble to deny - they don't like what they see in the mirror.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

MJJEAN said:


> *I was a WW in my first marriage. Yes, I compared my exH and OMs. Yes, I thought about my OMs from time to time. Less as the years went by. No, I didn't tell my exH that because my OM were ....personal, private, something for me and me alone.*


*But didn't your conscience ever eat at you about what it was that you were doing?*


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

hoblob said:


> I agree and disagree. Once a cheater always a cheater is proven to be false. Many people reform. I think that is a view in which people can't grow, which is inherently false. People mature and learn from their mistakes.


What you say is true but so what. I hate that as an argument for staying in a marriage which may be your point?

I say, so what in the sense that all of that is ONLY a requirement to even begin to think about staying in a marriage. Maybe it's a reason to forgive, but again staying in a marriage with someone like that should really, in the end, have very little to do with that. This is your life we are talking about and since the cheater has effectively broken the marital agreement I think the decision needs to be made first and foremost on what is going to provide the best quality of life for the betrayed moving forward. 

The questions that the betrayed and OP needs to be asking is how do you feel about the cheater, how do you fell about yourself if you stay with them. Do you want to be married to someone so morally deficient that they can for instance have a 3 year affair with someone else. Will sex with them always have that other man metaphorically in the room with you. What kind of person is someone who can do that, do you want to be spending the majority of your time with someone you have THAT history with. (Even if they are sorry). What kind of damage have they done to you by their abuse and is it wise to spend all of your time with the person who will always be your biggest trigger, or will their very presence be a detriment to your long term healing. Do you feel it is demeaning to be expending so much of your personal cache on someone who could abuse you so much and discard you like garbage. Will you have a better life without doing that or investing in someone who doesn't come with so much baggage. And I think the betrayed should continue to make this assessment for years moving forward. That's kind of the breaks when you abuse someone like cheaters do. 

It also needs to be said that a lot of cheaters really do go back to their ways, just like lots of alcoholics relapse, so in my mind it is always going to be a bigger risk. 

That is not to say that a cheater can't be redeemed though. I believe with hard work (but I am talking a lifetime of work) they can change and hopefully that after they do they can find love again. There are people on here who have recovered and seemingly have good happy lives, but I think they are rare.

People who have been cheated on and recovery in general would be much better suited if they focus on those things and not on if the cheater is sorry or not. Being sorry is necessary but in the end, very minimal part of what is important in the scheme of recovery. This is really what you should be asking yourself @Pepe1970, not how do I do this, but should I do this and is it even possible. 

So once a cheater always a cheater - no not true. Once a cheater always a risk to fall into patterns that enable the entitlement thinking that leads to cheating and generally unhealthy behavior - very true.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

arbitrator said:


> *But didn't your conscience ever eat at you about what it was that you were doing?*


No. ExH had cheated multiple times before I did anything, so I felt zero obligation to him or the "marriage".


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

hoblob said:


> Offense is different than trait. For you, it may be an irredeemable offense. Nothing wrong with that. But I just think it cuts people short in general that they can't learn from their mistakes. I say that as a public defender that has seen many people reform their lives after spending time in jail. Same with a person that cheats. Some cheaters are irredeemable, no doubt, but others will never do it again after seeing the pain they've caused.
> 
> But yeah. I think the LTAs are really messed up. Why stay married? I mean i've heard of people that cheat during half of their marriages. Sometimes they start right after getting married. Mind-boggling stuff. And that can't just be swept under the carpet and ignored. By neither party.


Don't overestimate it though 



> Within three years of release, about two-thirds (67.8 percent) of released prisoners were rearrested. Within five years of release, about three-quarters (76.6 percent) of released prisoners were rearrested. Of those prisoners who were rearrested, more than half (56.7 percent) were arrested by the end of the first year.


Most people don't change, cheaters are no different.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

hoblob said:


> I agree and disagree. Once a cheater always a cheater is proven to be false. Many people reform. I think that is a view in which people can't grow, which is inherently false. People mature and learn from their mistakes.
> 
> But I do agree that a 3-year affair needs counseling. I mean that is a long time to justify infidelity. Sneaking around, having two lives basically. What was her punishment. Did you just accept her back with open arms. There has to be some sort of repercussion to her actions.
> 
> Did she deny you sex during those 3 years?


There are outliers to everything, but it’s true often enough to serve as a general rule of thumb.

And a 3-year affair doesn’t need anything other than divorce papers.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

poida said:


> Interesting.
> I know I could never take back a cheater and I can see how this might level the playing field but this seems like a lot of pain to go through to save a relationship (marriage or not). Easier just to leave.


I interviewed him a few weeks ago. He felt that she had done everything possible to redeem herself in his eyes. He felt that the pain that she inflicted needed to be felt by her. It was pure revenge as far as my definition of it goes. I was revenged upon, I know. This was cold and calculated. He said that at a year into the reconciliation, he felt that he would never let it go. She needed to be as hurt, as devastated, as thoroughly humiliated as he was. As much as she thought that she had made it up to him, there was no making that up. He felt that the favor must be reciprocated. 

He felt that she got off way too light, she had the affair, and was remorseful, but her remorse was not what he wanted. I said that he stood a good chance of ending his marriage on the spot, and his response was, she almost ended it when she had her affair, he said he was similarly unafraid, or did not really give a ****.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

Taxman said:


> I am going to get bashed for what my client did, his wife had an affair two years ago. They "reconciled". She worked her ass off, to keep him from tossing her out on her ear. She thought that it was behind them. He said he waited, he got back the mojo with his wife. They were in the best place they had been in years. There was sex and intimacy, but that had been there before dday. Then he dropped the bomb. He told her point blank that he did not consider them rebuilt or reconciled. She was aghast. This was two years ago. It was a mistake, she said. He said once is a mistake, a few months was to be frank, an insult. She kept on, I thought we were past this. Then the second bomb dropped: He said that he could not stand the fact that she had another penis in her, and there were two choices in the matter: accept that at some point he was going off the reservation so to speak, or break up now. He put her in an impossible position, this was essentially blackmail. She said, if you have an affair then I am walking. Third bomb. He stated that he had been in an affair for six months. Dday all over again. This time it is her. He says to her, feels like **** don't it? I am leaving for a while, you can decide what you want. There was no reconciliation until you got to experience what I got. So we reconciled, I want the marriage, BUT, I want you to feel your insides burning. I want you to feel like you were kicked in the crotch. You have to get it all, just like I did. Yours was a random guy from CL, mine was from AM. She was young and pretty, and we ****ed like two rabbits, just like you and your AP. He flashed her a few pictures off his phone, including some porn shots. She got the entire picture. He walked, and said that she could call with her thoughts.
> 
> He left. She realized that he did to her, what she did to him. She got the entire rollercoaster shoved up her nose in one fall swoop. He patterned his affair after hers. Younger partner, six months, sex, sex and sex. She went dead silent for a week. Everyone she talked to literally laughed in her face, she was told that karma is a ***** and the bus just ran over her. She told her Mom, who said that he was right in doing this to her, and she should have expected it. She kept going over and over how she worked for the reconciliation. Her husband flushed the two years of reconciliation, and she said that she was willing to flush the marriage. It was pointed out to her that revenge is a dish best served cold. And cold it was. He got her. She realized that this was absolutely necessary, otherwise the marriage would have been over sooner rather than later. Two weeks later, when she calmed down, they went out for coffee. They talked. She said that he offered no apologies, and niether did she. He asked if she still wanted to be married, and she said, as long as we never do this to one another ever again. The marriage is back. It was the only way he could go back, and she realizes. They will never stray again, as both know the pain of betrayal.


Neat. But man:
1) He threw away his integrity
2) He's a cheater
3) He's a liar
4) He lowered himself to be just like her
5) He used that other woman as a tool to hurt his wife
6) definitely showed he has psychopathic tenancies

The list goes on

Why?
Why do yourself dirty just to get revenge?


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Pepe1970 said:


> That's something we can't affort this time
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


I suggest divorce. Why put yourself through this for a woman that cheated on you for years? Now your still comparing yourself to the OM. Just end it and start again.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Pepe1970 said:


> Again we're working on this marriage and doing very good.
> The thing is, she told me the other day, the whole last week she was Soo horny that she wanted a good f**k. Since I happen to be the husband, she let me know.
> I couldn't do it. I made many excuses to delay it till her "hornyness" wore out. I told her I was tired and went to sleep early whole week.
> I'm sure she was a bit disappointed but also awared that was one consequence of her cheatings since I felt that way.
> ...


I'm not going to sit here and tell you that I don't understand why you did that. ...but if you are going to deny her then you might as well just call it a day and end the marriage as fairly and amicably as possible. 

It is understandable that you have lost a lot of esteem and respect and love for her. It is understandable that you don't have the warm fuzzys for her anymore. And I would certainly understand that you may not have any desire for her anymore. 

But if all those things are the case and you don't believe you can get those back, then it may simply be easier and more humane for both of you to call it day. 

She had a 3 year affair. That is not a drunken grope in the broom closet at the office Christmas party. That is a separate life and a whole other relationship. 
I'm not sure there is much to reconcile here. 

It really is a Catch 22. She has a 3 year affair so you lose respect, esteem and desire for her. But since you two did decide to try to reconcile the marriage, both of you do have a right to a marital love and sexlife. In order to have a true reconciliation, both of you need to have your needs met within the marriage. But if you intentionally reject her and blow off her needs, then you are intentionally denying one of things that is needed for a successful reconciliation. 

If you intentionally reject and deny her a basic marital requirement, she is within her right to end the reconciliation attempt and dissolve the marriage. Just as it is your right to end the marriage due to her infidelity. 

You have the right to divorce her due to infidelity. But you do not have the right to hold her hostage in the marriage but yet deny her basic marital requirements. For it to be a true reconciliation and not just a sentence to assuage her guilt, she has to choose to remain in the marriage of her own free will and if you intentionally deny her needs, she is in her right to end the reconciliation and the marriage.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> There are outliers to everything, but it’s true often enough to serve as a general rule of thumb.
> 
> And a 3-year affair doesn’t need anything other than divorce papers.


Don't forget a five year emotional affair with another guy as well. Eight years!!?

Sheesh


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2017)

Pepe1970, I don't understand what "working on it" means. You said that you "couldn't do it" in response to her sex request. That's a problem, and it takes a pro to help you through it.
But, since her affair lasted three years, my advice would be to divorce her now. By the way, have you done the 180?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

snerg said:


> Neat. But man:
> 1) He threw away his integrity
> 2) He's a cheater
> 3) He's a liar
> ...


Integrity. Maybe he felt he had no integrity after his wife's affair? Or maybe he picked up his integrity and found it was no longer fit for purpose?

If you end up living alone in a shack or a dive apartment, integrity can't feed you and you can't burn it on the fire to keep you warm at night.


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## hoblob (Mar 28, 2018)

sokillme said:


> Within three years of release, about two-thirds (67.8 percent) of released prisoners were rearrested. Within five years of release, about three-quarters (76.6 percent) of released prisoners were rearrested. Of those prisoners who were rearrested, more than half (56.7 percent) were arrested by the end of the first year.
> [URL="https://www.


A lot of these statistics are heavily skewed by repeat offenders. So there is a part of the population that never changes its ways and will be in and out of jail. That’s what keeps a public defender working. 

A more accurate statistic would be how many first time offenders relapse, and that number would go down.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

BobSimmons said:


> *Don't forget a five year emotional affair with another guy as well. Eight years!!?*


*Hell, with a relationship with that kind of longevity, they may as well have been married to them!

What's the difference?*


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Well @oldshirt kind of beat me too it, but I will try to add what I can.

I have not read your first, I guess, thread, I will but I really do not have to. 

So first, brother, if you even have the slightest chance of making this work, you cannot deny her sex. So just stop it. 

If you cannot get over this, you need to divorce. In fact I am not even sure why you are trying. She just came out of a 3 year affair, OMG. 3 months, ok we can talk, 6 months ???, a year maybe we could talk. But 3 years. And if I read another poster correctly, the had another 5 year affair? No way dude. 

To answer your questions... 

She thinks about him every day. She compares you to him and the others every time you have sex. I mean it was 3 years. 

There is no way you can ever compete with affair sex, and she has been having that for 8 years of your marriage. 

If you were the biggest best stud in the world, you would not be able to compete with any of that. 

And you are denying her sex because you don't want to? No way man. 

Here is the deal, and I mean no disrespect at all. There are sexually strong men and there are sexually weak men. I am afraid that you might be weak in that area. It has nothing to do with size of your equipment. 

If I was in your situation, which I never would be, but lets just say. She would wake me up every day with at BJ, and I would bang her any where, any time, in any way that I wanted to. I would bring home one of my GF's and make her watch. 

Dude, if 8 years is the correct number, or 3 whatever, why in gods name did you take her back?

I took my wife back after a couple of incidents, wished I would have divorced her from the start, but you know what really got me? I was embarrassed at the dork she had an affair with. I mean, if you have going to do that, good grief, try to pick someone better than me, not this dork, that is embarrassing. 

Oh, and everything that she is telling you about the sex in her affair is a complete lie...


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

I think Pepe has been crushed by the weight of his WWs affairs and the specific details, I believe he knows what he should do but just can't act or recover.

Tamat


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

MJJEAN said:


> No. ExH had cheated multiple times before I did anything, so I felt zero obligation to him or the "marriage".


Yeah but what about to yourself? Your own integrity?


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

bandit.45 said:


> Yeah but what about to yourself? Your own integrity?


I will answer that, as I was in a similar situation. I felt fine with my integrity, I did not care at all. 

For one, I was done and in wanted out but my Ex W was too wasted to divorce during that time. And two, after what my Ex W put me through I think I could have been a serial killer and I would have felt ok with it.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

bandit.45 said:


> Pepe all I can tell you is that during the affair your WW probably never thought of you at all.
> 
> It is called compartmentalization. Think of the whole thing as a shelf of boxes. You and the marriage are in one box. When she was cheating she would close the marriage box, shove it to the side and open the affair box. Nothing of her affair and her love for you ever mingled together. She kept the affair completely separate...in her mind. You were never a factor.
> 
> ...



Good Post, Bandit.

Know this, know thee.

I like you, I like thee.

Knowing this, knowing that. Do not cheat.

As it is now known, you have no need. 

No, know bro. I am not gay.
Nor am I gray. I am trans...

Translucent.
Clear as a bell. 

Rung, wrung out.

...............................................

Ah, I suspect.
I will get the customary, the expected from you, see below:

--------??????------------


:|:|:| :frown2::frown2: :surprise::surprise::surprise: :smile2::smile2: :grin2: >


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

bandit.45 said:


> It is called compartmentalization. Think of the whole thing as a shelf of boxes. You and the marriage are in one box. * When she was cheating she would close the marriage box, shove it to the side and open the affair box. * Nothing of her affair and her love for you ever mingled together. She kept the affair completely separate...in her mind. You were never a factor.


B45,

When did you question my WW? :surprise:

When I asked the "HOW could you juggle affairs?" for so many years this is the exact almost word for word response she gave. 

Spooky!



bandit.45 said:


> *Nothing of her affair and her love for you ever mingled together. She kept the affair completely separate...in her mind.*


Damn, that's word for word. I asked her... were you like this growing up? She said her Mom taught her to compartmentalize as a means of coping with "bad" things that happen in life. I've come to understand that Passive Aggressive/Compartmentalizing is a "trait" found in many women that cheat. Not implying that's these traits are Cause/Effect but very common in cheaters. 



bandit.45 said:


> *You were never a factor.*


From her mouth post DD. "I was never really about you. You were just a convenient excuse."


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

BluesPower said:


> I will answer that, as I was in a similar situation. I felt fine with my integrity, I did not care at all.
> 
> For one, I was done and in wanted out but my Ex W was too wasted to divorce during that time. And two, after what my Ex W put me through I think I could have been a serial killer and I would have felt ok with it.


Okay.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

SunCMars said:


> Good Post, Bandit.
> 
> Know this, know thee.
> 
> ...


Knowing me, knowing you...

Ah...haaaaaaaaaaahhhh

The're aint nothing we can't do. 

Ah...haaaaaaaaaaahhh....


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Her affair was 3 YEARS.

Not 3 weeks or 3 months, it was 3 YEARS. Almost 1,200 days.

Of course she thinks about him.

Often.

You're awfully forgiving to move forward with someone who had no problem lying to your face for 3 long years.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Her affair was 3 YEARS.
> 
> Not 3 weeks or 3 months, it was 3 YEARS. Almost 1,200 days.
> 
> ...


Yeah he said the affair was 3 years and that she confessed - he never suspected.

Sounds like the affair cooled off or became too much trouble and she went back to Plan B - good old blind husband.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Her affair was 3 YEARS.
> 
> Not 3 weeks or 3 months, it was 3 YEARS. Almost 1,200 days.
> 
> Of course she thinks about him.





TDSC60 said:


> Yeah he said the affair was 3 years and that she confessed - he never suspected.


As @bandit.45 alluded... it's all about compartmentalizing. Some cheaters can block out anything regardless how illicit to the marriage. If they can do it so "well" while actively cheating, it's a breeze when the affair is over?

I even asked my cheating wife, how could you just walk in at home after slipping out all afternoon to meet OM in a hotel for a few hours of sex and just act like it was another day at the office?

"How was your day honey? What you want to do for dinner?"

It's all in a little "box" way back in the corner of the closet.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> Knowing me, knowing you...
> 
> Ah...haaaaaaaaaaahhhh
> 
> ...


Great, now I'll have an Abba song stuck in my head all day.....


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Sadly i think that pepe does not want to hear the truth but a facsimile of which he can live with, he is not ready to move on because he firmly believes that this time she really really means she won't cheat like the other times. i see a 2 x 4 in his future delivered by her next affair.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

honcho said:


> Great, now I'll have an Abba song stunk in my head all day.....


ABBA song “stunk”...

Simple typo or Freudian slip?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Pepe1970 said:


> Again we're working on this marriage and doing very good.
> The thing is, she told me the other day, the whole last week she was Soo horny that she wanted a good f**k. Since I happen to be the husband, she let me know.
> I couldn't do it. I made many excuses to delay it till her "hornyness" wore out. I told her I was tired and went to sleep early whole week.
> I'm sure she was a bit disappointed but also awared that was one consequence of her cheatings since I felt that way.
> ...


I think this was a bad choice. Since you chose to keep her, you need to f her goddamned brains out as much as you can. Claim that territory and plow your field!

She will think of him sometimes because she is human and it happens with all of us but I guarantee she will think less often of him the more you are knocking her brains out with your love bat.

You chose to keep her so ravage her senseless or walk away.

She will think more about him the less you have sex with her.

I remember many sexual encounters (actually all of them) but don't often think about them. The more I have time between encounters with my wife, the more likely I recall a previous partner though it has gotten less frequent over the years I have been married.

Claim and possess your woman.


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## Pepe1970 (Aug 25, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> I'm not going to sit here and tell you that I don't understand why you did that. ...but if you are going to deny her then you might as well just call it a day and end the marriage as fairly and amicably as possible.
> 
> It is understandable that you have lost a lot of esteem and respect and love for her. It is understandable that you don't have the warm fuzzys for her anymore. And I would certainly understand that you may not have any desire for her anymore.
> 
> ...


Thank you. From all the comments here, yours made me think the most. Again thank you.

Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

bandit.45 said:


> Yeah but what about to yourself? Your own integrity?


My own integrity was not harmed in the least. I just can't feel bad about cheating on a cheater. We made an agreement. He broke it. Game on.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

MJJEAN said:


> My own integrity was not harmed in the least. I just can't feel bad about cheating on a cheater. We made an agreement. He broke it. Game on.


Okay.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

Sorry you are here Pepe. IMO R rarely works. Scars never fully heal, BS is reminded forever in R - the pain of divorce is nothing compared to R, esp in longterm. BS goes on to meet a decent partner & the sorry-ass WS fades from memory & gets passed on to someone else. 

You're in classic R, doubts, fears, vigilance etc. These won't go away for a long time. The bedroom problem is just another. Quite normal. So don't feel bad. As for attending to her sexual needs as others mentioned, in that headspace I wouldn't be in the mood to attend to my own needs, never mind hers! If she can't understand that. . . too bad. She can stay in R or find another PA. 

5 years of an EA with another OM a poster said? Now 3 years PA with this OM. Serial cheater. So R is futile imo. EAs are as big a betrayal. If you don't agree, how do you know it didn't go PA?

She stole 8 years from your life, but not out of her own. Heck, she had it good - the attention of 2 men for 8 years. 

Now she's stealing more time out of your life. Another year has gone by with more years of pain ahead. Ask any R poster. She didn't love you for those 8 years - it was the opposite of love. 

Oh, but now she does? Both OMs may have refused to commit. You could be Plan B. 
How old are you? Kids? You've got some years left. Live with a liar & longterm cheater, or take your own path & opt for divorce pain. It's way easier. 

Are you not even considering divorce?


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## Pepe1970 (Aug 25, 2017)

********** said:


> Sorry you are here Pepe. IMO R rarely works. Scars never fully heal, BS is reminded forever in R - the pain of divorce is nothing compared to R, esp in longterm. BS goes on to meet a decent partner & the sorry-ass WS fades from memory & gets passed on to someone else.
> 
> You're in classic R, doubts, fears, vigilance etc. These won't go away for a long time. The bedroom problem is just another. Quite normal. So don't feel bad. As for attending to her sexual needs as others mentioned, in that headspace I wouldn't be in the mood to attend to my own needs, never mind hers! If she can't understand that. . . too bad. She can stay in R or find another PA.
> 
> ...


I'm 47, she's 41, we have 3 kids. 7,9,14. The thing is I always think I deserved it because I cheated first. That was 15 years ago. We were separated, then I met someone(s). That's why I hesitate to put up a fight (even though I do some days) but I know "what goes around comes around". We were still seeing each other "fooling around" then she got pregnant with my first child. We got back together but we were just, as she put it "roommates" until 10 months ago when she confessed to me.

Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

OK, you're both still young. 3 kids is tough & puts way more pressure on you to R. They know stuff is going down even if you hide it. 

Gee, how did she find time to have affairs with 3 very young kids, scratch head! 

I'm confused. You guys were 'separated' but 'fooling around' when you met someone? Was she seeing other people at the time too? I always thought if couples separated, they would see others. Isn't that the point of it? Maybe not. 

If you think you deserved it, she has sure paid you back - for years. How long was your A for? I gather you have been faithful for the past 14 years. I'm wondering if you were just 'roommates' all that time as she said, why on earth did she go on to have 2 more kids with you? Have you asked her? If pregnant I guess she felt she had no option but to marry you, and you her. But it was very odd for her to stay with you and have 2 more kids. And she has now fallen in love with you? It all seems quite strange to me tbh. 

Most importantly, drop the "I deserved it" thinking. You were separated at the time, you've been faithful since she got pregnant and you had your kids. She has played around for years while married with 3 kids knowing you were just a 'roommate' but not bothering to tell you. Doesn't get much worse. She really did steal those years. You have more than paid your dues. Don't let her use that line of thinking on you ever again, as in 'you had an affair before I did'. My guess is that she controls you with that & always has. 

How would a divorce affect you both financially? I think it's important for you to work out if she's with you for the right reasons. And don't be afraid to be blunt, open and honest and get answers to all your questions. 

As to your question, re women comparing. . . It would be impossible for women (& men) not to think of a former lover for a short time after meeting someone new (whether in an affair or not). But honestly, when you truly love the next person you meet, it barely matters. It fades away and becomes a distant memory. Sex can always be great when two people love each other. All it takes is good communication, what you like, what I like etc. Focus on love, not sex and it will work itself out very quickly. Remember it's always said that sex happens in our brain. 

I hope you told her about your bedroom concerns & that she was understanding and patient which would go a long way towards fixing it. Her reaction would have told you a lot. If you haven't, then tell her. You're also probably afraid that she'll stray again if you don't perform. Don't forget how sex is initially when you meet someone new and how it is 3 years later. And now it's been another 2 years since she was last with him. It's fading into the distance. If you find yourself thinking about it, hit yourself over the head and say, ''Well, too bad OM. I'm here now, not you'. She chose you after all. Don't let that ****** OM still have one over on you!


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Pepe1970 said:


> The thing is I always think I deserved it because I cheated first. That was 15 years ago.


You guys always bury the lead. So I think at least now you are on the same footing. My advice talk to her and tell her what you think.


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## hoblob (Mar 28, 2018)

sokillme said:


> You guys always bury the lead. So I think at least now you are on the same footing. My advice talk to her and tell her what you think.


Depends on the extent of the cheating. I mean a ONS isn't an 8 years of affairs.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

hoblob said:


> *Depends on the extent of the cheating. I mean a ONS isn't an 8 years of affairs.*


*... but is as every bit as deceptive, wouldn't you agree?*


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## hoblob (Mar 28, 2018)

arbitrator said:


> *... but is as every bit as deceptive, wouldn't you agree?*


I don't think so, not if you don't keep it hidden. You give your SO a choice to stay or leave after. But keeping something secret for 8 years, while handing your SO possible STD and left over jizz is something else.


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## Pepe1970 (Aug 25, 2017)

********** said:


> OK, you're both still young. 3 kids is tough & puts way more pressure on you to R. They know stuff is going down even if you hide it.
> 
> Gee, how did she find time to have affairs with 3 very young kids, scratch head!
> 
> ...


Well to answer some of your questions. 
When we were separated she said she had a few dates but never sex, she said.
While separated I saw other women (she met one) just for few months, nothing serious ever, just for sex and some companionship. It's never good for a man to be alone. 
Still, my wife and I never looked for divorce. I think deep inside still loved each other.
When She had this last affair, she said she mostly saw the other man while I was taking the kids to church on wednesdays. They have this wonderful programs for kids and they love it. While I wait for them to finish about three hours, then the kids and I come back home. Since she didn't go with us, that's the chance she had to see him. He lives nearby so three hours was enough time for her to his house or going for dinner somewhere. 
Every year the church has this "father/son" camp out going away for the whole weekend. While my kids and i were away she stayed at his house. That weekend when my kids spoke to her to say good night, she was laying in bed with him talking to my kids.
The reasons of the affairs were because she said felt devalued, undesired, neglected as a woman. Sex was really scarce between us, just once in awhile. You know how bad that's for women. And forget communication.
Another answer is she, always wanted more than one kid, so do I but she never wanted different fathers for them, just one father for all her kids.
I admit, she was completely devastated from my past affairs years ago and our relationship was nothing good. Our kids were the glue for us.
After her confession, the first months I asked her questions about the affairs, even the gruesome details of sex. She suggested for me not to know but I did anyway since she was willing to asnwer. It seems like she didn't hold anything back with him, enough for me to adopt the thought of "can't compete with that" after hearing the details.

Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

She told you the sordid details so she'd get a reaction from you intentionally. That's a sign...


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

You cheated on her early on and that set the pattern for your marriage. Frankly I don't see how you and her make this work out. She has obviously lost all respect for you, that much is abundantly clear. She doesn't trust you, and therefore she sees no value in getting you to trust her. Why should she? Why should she try to behave herself when you demonstrated to her early on that your fidelity was a moving target.

Pepe either you are going to be a monogamous man or you are not. Women are not here just to birth your offspring and provide you sex whenever you want it. You're here because your WW turned the tables on you and gave you a taste of your own medicine. She showed you very clearly that you are replaceable, and that is what has you butthurt. 

You are in a bad position. You can't afford marriage counseling, so you and your wife have no one to help you rebuild your relationship. Creating a new relationship would be a monumental task, and frankly from what I have seen, neither you or your wife have what it takes to do it. Maybe I'm wrong.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

Thnx for clarifying Pepe. R is entirely possible, I rarely say that. I'm solution driven so another long post coming up .
You wanted details. Far better she told you so you won't wonder forever & more importantly she's being HONEST now. 
Clearly lack of libido isn't the issue here for either of you - so you guys are VERY lucky. 
The problem is emotional, ie in your brains, where sex happens as I said previously. 

If both people feel loved, valued & respected, sex can be great. 
So you can't compete? Really? You sure can, but you gotta stop thinking of it in terms of competing. Instead, you're going to build a great sex life. 
How? You said there was no communication and there's your answer. 
What you like, what she likes etc. It may seem strange at first because you haven't been communicating about it. Be open & honest & she will find it easy to do the same. 
I can guarantee she will feel loved and valued and you'll get the same in return. 
I'm not a sexpert  but there should be some ideas on other forums re that. 
Have a date night at least once a week. Try to go for a night or w/e to a nearby hotel now & then if you have family/sitter. 
Nearby so you guys won't stress as to how the kids are cos you'll be able to get home quickly if you need to. 
It's SO important for couples with young kids to have alone time, 3 in your case - sheesh! I had 3 & it was crazy busy. 
Surprise her like that now and then, she'll be thrilled. Or flowers. Women love surprises. It makes us feel very special. 
And you can bet you'll get surprises in return. 
All of this will show you have confidence (ie not feeling threatened by her sex with OM). Confidence is VERY sexy. And it will show you care about her & her needs which you didn't do earlier in the marriage as you said. 
Isn't that headspace better than working on your sex life in the headspace of trying to compete with OM? 

OM is GONE. Don't bring him into your future. She probably wondered about the sex you had with those women long ago, especially because when you got back together your sex life was bad. Those women are gone too. 

Maybe her cheating was worse but as others have said, it's the betrayal of the trust that's at the bottom of the pain. 
So you are 'quits' And both of you had your egos hurt. 'Quits' on that too. Too bad. Thoughts of our damaged ego bring us no good. And it's at the bottom of you having this competitive thing. 
In a way, R is probably easier if both have had affairs because both people understand the pain. 

You have 3 kids, I'll bet they're gorgeous. You have both decided to R, stay together and watch these little people grow up. 
It doesn't come better than - an intact family. 50% of marriages don't survive. Broken homes, custody, bitterness etc. 

You should both treasure what you have and work hard to keep it that way. Life is short. Don't bring all that horrible stuff into the now and the future. 

Do you think all that is possible? 
I do. 
And the reward is enormous .


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## Pepe1970 (Aug 25, 2017)

bandit.45 said:


> You cheated on her early on and that set the pattern for your marriage. Frankly I don't see how you and her make this work out. She has obviously lost all respect for you, that much is abundantly clear. She doesn't trust you, and therefore she sees no value in getting you to trust her. Why should she? Why should she try to behave herself when you demonstrated to her early on that your fidelity was a moving target.
> 
> Pepe either you are going to be a monogamous man or you are not. Women are not here just to birth your offspring and provide you sex whenever you want it. You're here because your WW turned the tables on you and gave you a taste of your own medicine. She showed you very clearly that you are replaceable, and that is what has you butthurt.
> 
> You are in a bad position. You can't afford marriage counseling, so you and your wife have no one to help you rebuild your relationship. Creating a new relationship would be a monumental task, and frankly from what I have seen, neither you or your wife have what it takes to do it. Maybe I'm wrong.


Maybe

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## Pepe1970 (Aug 25, 2017)

********** said:


> Thnx for clarifying Pepe. R is entirely possible, I rarely say that. I'm solution driven so another long post coming up .
> You wanted details. Far better she told you so you won't wonder forever & more importantly she's being HONEST now.
> Clearly lack of libido isn't the issue here for either of you - so you guys are VERY lucky.
> The problem is emotional, ie in your brains, where sex happens as I said previously.
> ...


Thank you for your kind words. I know it's a demolishing experience but I always been the kid of challenging person who beats the odds and don't want my marriage to become another statistical number of fealure. Again thank you

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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Pepe1970 said:


> Maybe
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


You can't expect everyone to butter your ass my friend. These are legit questions you need to ask yourself.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

Pepe1970 said:


> Thank you for your kind words. I know it's a demolishing experience but I always been the kid of challenging person who beats the odds and don't want my marriage to become another statistical number of fealure. Again thank you
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


Love your response. 
Prove @bandit.45 wrong. No insult intended bandit.45 :wink2:Good points you made. 
Let's see if @Pepe1970 is up to the monumental task!
Pepe. Be one of the success stories on TAM. We need more of those!!! :grin2:


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## Pepe1970 (Aug 25, 2017)

********** said:


> Love your response.
> Prove @bandit.45 wrong. No insult intended bandit.45 :wink2:Good points you made.
> Let's see if @Pepe1970 is up to the monumental task!
> Pepe. Be one of the success stories on TAM. We need more of those!!! :grin2:


I will keep you guys updated

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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

*&quot;Mind of a cheater wife&quot;*



Pepe1970 said:


> When we were separated she said she had a few dates but never sex, she said.
> While separated I saw other women (she met one) just for few months, nothing serious ever, just for sex and some companionship. It's never good for a man to be alone.


You didn’t cheat on her ‘first’, you were separated when you had your ‘affairs’. That’s not cheating. She was dating too!



Pepe1970 said:


> The reasons of the affairs were because she said felt devalued, undesired, neglected as a woman. Sex was really scarce between us, just once in awhile. You know how bad that's for women. And forget communication.



It seems the reasons she cheated may have been due to her not being satisfied with the sex life. Which doesn’t make it in any way right nor is it your fault.

It’s a difficult situation. It seems you are set on R but beware that this may happen again.

Why was the sex ‘scarce’ btw? Did you not find her attractive or some other reason?
It’s just that if you can address the reasons perhaps you can lower the odds of it happening again behind your back in the future.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

Pepe1970 said:


> Every year the church has this "father/son" camp out going away for the whole weekend. While my kids and i were away she stayed at his house. *That weekend when my kids spoke to her to say good night, she was laying in bed with him talking to my kids.
> 
> *
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


Do you consider her a good mother? Does she?


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## Pepe1970 (Aug 25, 2017)

*Re: &quot;Mind of a cheater wife&quot;*



inmyprime said:


> You didn’t cheat on her ‘first’, you were separated when you had your ‘affairs’. That’s not cheating. She was dating too!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, just for the sake of honesty, yes, I think I cheated first.
It's true we were separated but still married, I broke the covenant of marriage (as she put it).
So she had the choice of staying or divorce me, which she didn't.

And yes, we're set for R (meaning reconciliation I assume)

And yes the sex was very limited. Before the separation we had many arguments because of our many differences which made very hard to even enjoy sex.
One of those differences was the outcome. After a fight or argument she used to leave the house and come back the next day, which I found very disturbing and disrespectful to my marriage principles. 
After seeing her behavior I told her not to leave the house after every fight we had. She kept doing it and told her if she do it again, I'll be the one who leave her, and so I did. I proposed the separation showing her how serious I was. My pride blinded me to the point to tell her I don't love her anymore. During the separation we were still seeing each other sometimes, she stayed in my apt sometimes and of course we had sex. I was seeing other women, she knew.
Once she got pregnant, I told her I'll take care of everything. Started living together again but it was different, were living like roommates since she confessed of her affairs where we started to take care of business.

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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Pepe1970 said:


> I will keep you guys updated
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


Hope it works well for you.
If it does we will see you back here in a couple of years with the same issue. 
I been there myself my friend.


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## Pepe1970 (Aug 25, 2017)

Malaise said:


> Do you consider her a good mother? Does she?


I have my variants on that opinion. I think she is a terrific mother except the time of her affairs. She was willing to risk the security of her children, if I opted for divorce. 
But aside from that, she is amazing.

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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

Pepe1970 said:


> I have my variants on that opinion. I think she is a terrific mother except the time of her affairs. *She was willing to risk the security of her children, if I opted for divorce.
> *But aside from that, she is amazing.
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


She was willing to risk the security of her children for some strange.


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## Pepe1970 (Aug 25, 2017)

StillSearching said:


> Hope it works well for you.
> If it does we will see you back here in a couple of years with the same issue.
> I been there myself my friend.


Sorry to hear that, but in my case if it doesn't work....... It's not going down without a fight for it. I'll take the odds.

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## Pepe1970 (Aug 25, 2017)

Malaise said:


> She was willing to risk the security of her children for some strange.


Hey you're preaching to the choir here. But that was her chance to make a mistake. She knows the consequences if she goes that road again.

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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

*Re: &quot;Mind of a cheater wife&quot;*



Pepe1970 said:


> I was seeing other women, *she knew.*
> 
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


So here's the main difference between cheating/not cheating. The fact that you were married is a technicality. I am not religious, so for me, if you decide to separate and agree it is ok to see other people, that's not cheating.

Yes, leaving the house after every fight seems odd. What were the fights about? Little things or always the same thing?


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Pepe1970 said:


> Sorry to hear that, but in my case if it doesn't work....... It's not going down without a fight for it. I'll take the odds.
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


I understand. I was saying that same thing 8 years ago.
Do not forget what it feels like to ride the pain train, or you will do it again.
"Past behavior is the best way to determine future behavior."
I hope for you things go just as you plan.
The truth is the odds are against you.
Don't do like I did and suffer needlessly. 
Although it will make you a better man.....suffering does have it's redeeming value.


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## Pepe1970 (Aug 25, 2017)

*Re: &quot;Mind of a cheater wife&quot;*



inmyprime said:


> So here's the main difference between cheating/not cheating. The fact that you were married is a technicality. I am not religious, so for me, if you decide to separate and agree it is ok to see other people, that's not cheating.
> 
> Yes, leaving the house after every fight seems odd. What were the fights about? Little things or always the same thing?


We were (still) very differents in so many levels, many issues came up that led to arguments and frustrations.
Our differences were culturals being both from different countries. Our differences were also educational, she's a college professor, conference speaker, psicologist, you name it. 
I am just a warehouse worker since I came to America, no education at all. You do the math.
Many times I felt I was holding her back and always gave her wings with her career and maybe that was one of the frustrations of her choice to marry someone like me. 
Those are just a few reasons.

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## Pepe1970 (Aug 25, 2017)

StillSearching said:


> I understand. I was saying that same thing 8 years ago.
> Do not forget what it feels like to ride the pain train, or you will do it again.
> "Past behavior is the best way to determine future behavior."
> I hope for you things go just as you plan.
> ...


I understand your point. But in the future, if it doesn't work I won't see it as fealure because I fought and gave it a try. it's not like I lay there letting the pain eat me alive

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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Ask yourself these questions.
Does my wife act like this?
1. Conversation Hoarder
2. Conversation Interrupter
3. Rule Breaker
4. Boundary Violator
5. False Image Projection
6. Entitlement
7. Charmer
8. Grandiose Personality
9. Negative Emotion Speading
10. Manipulation: Using Others as an Extension of Self
11. No Empathy
!2. Not Intimate even During Sex

My wife is a narcissist. Most cheaters fall under that category.
There is NO cure for Narcissism.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

Pepe1970 said:


> I have my variants on that opinion. I think she is a terrific mother except the time of her affairs. She was willing to risk the security of her children, if I opted for divorce.
> But aside from that, she is amazing.
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


You have to get her off that pedestal.


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## Pepe1970 (Aug 25, 2017)

StillSearching said:


> Ask yourself these questions.
> Does my wife act like this?
> 1. Conversation Hoarder
> 2. Conversation Interrupter
> ...


Your wife???
So you still with her??

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## Pepe1970 (Aug 25, 2017)

StillSearching said:


> Ask yourself these questions.
> Does my wife act like this?
> 1. Conversation Hoarder
> 2. Conversation Interrupter
> ...


Never mind, got it now

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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

I've been encouraging of R Pepe, which is rare for me but you seem determined. The best reason to do so is for YOU, to avoid you beating yourself up in the future. 
I will qualify my encouragement because of what you said in your latest posts. 
I would NOT give it more than 12 months. Find posts on TAM re remorse. If she's not 100% remorseful, I wouldn't give it more than a few weeks. 

It takes two to R. Wanting to have all her children with one partner was not enough of a reason to get married. Same for you. There are cultural & educational differences & the marriage seems to have been very unhappy for the most part. R will only work if she's as determined as you.

As per @inmyprime technically I don't think your 'affair' was an affair either. People assume there'll be sex if people date. How do you know she didn't have sex during the separation? She's an excellent liar. And there's the pregnancy, which is worrying tbh. It's easy NOT to get pregnant. Ask any woman. 

Given the extent and length of HER affairs, don't tolerate for a minute her continuing to throw your 'affair' back at you. She knew you were seeing others, even met one. You sure didn't know about hers which were ongoing for most of your marriage. 

@StillSearching may well be right because she throws your 'affair' at you as if to excuse hers & because of things you have said in these later posts, I too thought of narcissism. They're never wrong and always have an excuse. Same with her tantrums, ie leaving the house instead of discussing. It could be she spent the night with someone else even back then. Who did she stay with? You should ask her. You need to be sure she's not a narcissist. Google & YouTube NPD (narcissistic personality disorder). Then you can judge for yourself. A large percentage of cheaters are narcissists. It's their major trait.
R is impossible with them. If you think she is one, I wouldn't even try R. I was married to one. 

So try R, but go into it with your eyes wide open. Don't let yourself be walked over by her, no tantrums & no ongoing accusations and blame for your so called 'affair'. 

Hopefully you'll keep posting because posters will soon tell you if she's remorseful and whether the R is genuine for her. 
There's always the danger of BS being Plan B, especially if her affair partner(s) didn't want to commit to her.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Pepe, why do you want to spend a lifetime with a cheater? Are you so short of confidence that you are willing to accept such a disrespect? There are so many women...younger, hotter, faithful....what makes this snowflake so special? Does she have a magical vagina...I've tested a few out and they all feel pretty good.


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## Pepe1970 (Aug 25, 2017)

It's hard to start all over again

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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Which of you earns more? Who pays the bills?


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## Pepe1970 (Aug 25, 2017)

bandit.45 said:


> Which of you earns more? Who pays the bills?


Because we have the kids, I'm the one working and paying the majority of the bills, she's staying with them most of the day. 
She's got a master in psicology, if she ever work full-time she'll be making more than I. That's never been a problem between us since day one when we were dating. She was a college student then and I knew I would never make as much as her if she started to work. I'm just a warehouse worker.

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## Pepe1970 (Aug 25, 2017)

Once the kids get a bit older she will be able to work, but right now she does part time as college professor and conference speaker.

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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Taxman said:


> I am going to get bashed for what my client did, his wife had an affair two years ago. They "reconciled". She worked her ass off, to keep him from tossing her out on her ear. She thought that it was behind them. He said he waited, he got back the mojo with his wife. They were in the best place they had been in years. There was sex and intimacy, but that had been there before dday. Then he dropped the bomb. He told her point blank that he did not consider them rebuilt or reconciled. She was aghast. This was two years ago. It was a mistake, she said. He said once is a mistake, a few months was to be frank, an insult. She kept on, I thought we were past this. Then the second bomb dropped: He said that he could not stand the fact that she had another penis in her, and there were two choices in the matter: accept that at some point he was going off the reservation so to speak, or break up now. He put her in an impossible position, this was essentially blackmail. She said, if you have an affair then I am walking. Third bomb. He stated that he had been in an affair for six months. Dday all over again. This time it is her. He says to her, feels like **** don't it? I am leaving for a while, you can decide what you want. There was no reconciliation until you got to experience what I got. So we reconciled, I want the marriage, BUT, I want you to feel your insides burning. I want you to feel like you were kicked in the crotch. You have to get it all, just like I did. Yours was a random guy from CL, mine was from AM. She was young and pretty, and we ****ed like two rabbits, just like you and your AP. He flashed her a few pictures off his phone, including some porn shots. She got the entire picture. He walked, and said that she could call with her thoughts.
> 
> He left. She realized that he did to her, what she did to him. She got the entire rollercoaster shoved up her nose in one fall swoop. He patterned his affair after hers. Younger partner, six months, sex, sex and sex. She went dead silent for a week. Everyone she talked to literally laughed in her face, she was told that karma is a ***** and the bus just ran over her. She told her Mom, who said that he was right in doing this to her, and she should have expected it. She kept going over and over how she worked for the reconciliation. Her husband flushed the two years of reconciliation, and she said that she was willing to flush the marriage. It was pointed out to her that revenge is a dish best served cold. And cold it was. He got her. She realized that this was absolutely necessary, otherwise the marriage would have been over sooner rather than later. Two weeks later, when she calmed down, they went out for coffee. They talked. She said that he offered no apologies, and niether did she. He asked if she still wanted to be married, and she said, as long as we never do this to one another ever again. The marriage is back. It was the only way he could go back, and she realizes. They will never stray again, as both know the pain of betrayal.


 I am so glad they stay together, as I wouldn't want to see the rest of the world to either of them. They are two disgusting peas in a pod.

As is anyone who would cheer either of them on.


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## bigfoot (Jan 22, 2014)

You said that its hard to start over again. Well, you are doing that with your cheater wife....starting over. Second, its not hard to start over again in a new relationship.

You get your mind right first in both cases. If you aren't healed from the cheating, everything is hard. Don't let fear of the unknown dictate your choices. It is not hard to start over. It is hard to wrap your mind around the idea of doing it, but it is not hard. You just do it. 

I am not encouraging a particular choice, I am just saying to remove artificial barriers to making a good choice. Say you end it. Then you get your head right. You establish new routines. You establish new relationships. You hang out, then date, then find a long term one, then break up, etc. and then get remarried or not. You will be happy, fulfilled and fine. 

It is a story as old as time.


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## IanMcEwan (Jun 8, 2018)

Pepe1970 said:


> Hey guys
> I already posted my case few months back, so won't be going into details but just to generalize, my wife confessed to me (about 10 months back) of her cheating with some guy. Fast forwarding we're working in our marriage with some improvements.
> Now there is always something in my mind taking the challenge of competition with the other man, which is normal being the one cheated on.
> I mean...........
> ...


I think this video from Ted, name Rethinking infidelity ... a talk for anyone who has ever loved | Esther Perel is helpful in your situation too.


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## Pepe1970 (Aug 25, 2017)

IanMcEwan said:


> I think this video from Ted, name Rethinking infidelity ... a talk for anyone who has ever loved | Esther Perel is helpful in your situation too.


Thank you

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