# b/After the blowup and OW H. Progress maybe/b



## daibai (Sep 10, 2013)

My husband has been having an EA since June. See my previous posts if interested but here's the story.

b/All of my sleuthing over these months turned up the following:b/

Multiple text messages, phone calls and emails
Meeting at the gym and long conversations in/near the car after class
Journal entries professing his love and sexual longing for her

They claim that there was no sex however there was kissing and hugging. The journal entries and texts indicate otherwise. I want to believe him but am not convinced.

What I did: Called the OW husband 1 month ago and we agreed that he would monitor her phone and email. I also told my husband that I was checking his email from time to time and his phone activity. I have been very honest with him about my surveillance. We began MC. Things were quiet, I have been very upset, lost weight no appetite, not sleeping. My H seemed to be working on our relationship, however he is not remorseful and clearly resents me, but he is trying and agrees that by not being in contact with her it has helped him turn his efforts and attentions toward our marriage.

Thing is...on his birthday the OW texted him...once. I texted her back from my phone - have never been in contact with her before - and said..b/please do not contact via text or otherwise for any reason. b/"We are working hard to re-establish our marriage and any contact from you is distracting."b/ I also called the OW H and told him. He was aware that she texted him and said that he gave her permission to text my H for his birthday only. I told OW H that it was inappropriate and unacceptable. I was MAD, felt that she partly ruined a day that I'd worked hard to make special for me and my H. Good thing is that H did not respond to her text.

Two days later he saw OW at the gym and she told him about the text. I hadn't told him that I contacted her. He said "well I guess you shouldn't text me anymore". I also told him that I called the OW H. He feels that I shouldn't do that, I am getting involved in their marriage. I said no....she brought this on by contacting you and disrupting our marriage after he asked he not to contact him. He also quit the gym but not sure this is necessary. I thanked him for his comment to her and offer to quit the gym he has been going to for 10 years. She works there now. He's been going to the gym at times that he knows she is not there.

b/I'm a bit conflicted maybe I should back off a bit.b/ On one hand he's doing the right things, but I don't want to lose momentum. I'm fighting.

I know that I can't control him and especially her...

I guess this needs time. Seems like we are slightly on the right track. Contacting the OW H may not be the best solution for everyone, but for me it at least broke things up a bit and brought things to the surface, but the hard part comes later.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

I'm puzzled by the "not remorseful" and "resents you" statements. To me, those would put a quick end to any reconciliation attempt. Care to comment?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

He should be going to a new gym. There are several around most places.

He can not always know her work schedule or gym use and NC means NC.

Either he wants the marriage or not. He should not go places that it is very likely that she may be.

I do not think this is asking too much. Why do you not go to the gym together? (unless young children)


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## daibai (Sep 10, 2013)

Yes I would. He seems to feel entitled to have had this relationship. He apologized sincerly for waiting so long for tell me he was unhappy in the marriage, however was clear that he was not apologizing for the affair. No begging for forgiveness, although he has finally yesterday acknowledged that he realizes I am suffering. He hates confrontation and I have been forcing him to talk several times per week for some hours, yet no real remorse in spite of that.

He will not say that he loves me. I have taken the tact these weeks of being nice, kind and supportive. I tell him that I love him and that I want to get through this. He is suffering silently and wrote in his journal about his resentment for me and that I am faking it and not really devoted to him but only fearful. I WAS fearful but not anymore, just mad. I am preparing for the worst and have told him so. I would like to save 18 years of marriage...he seems to be rewriting our history.

He has recently begun counselling has resentment toward his parents. Maybe I am the punching bag?

Does it just take time?


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## daibai (Sep 10, 2013)

yes I'm thinking that I should join the same gym. But do I want to do that to myself?

The gym is an issue. He's long been a member there....she has for only a year. My response to him was I feel bad that you may have to leave that Gym but you blew it. You brought it on yourself.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

*Multiple text messages, phone calls and emails
Meeting at the gym and long conversations in/near the car after class
Journal entries professing his love and sexual longing for her

They claim that there was no sex however there was kissing and hugging. The journal entries and texts indicate otherwise. I want to believe him but am not convinced.*


I have yet to see a cheater say "we only kissed" and not mean "we had sex".

I am almost 100% convinced they had sex. Too many times together and kissing and hugging all indicate to me that the deed was done several times.

Why are you posting these things? Because you know better. You know he is not being truthful nor remorseful.

Why fight for him? I know the feeling, I have gone down that road. But I firmly believe that if you let him go you won't have to worry about him.

Right now, if the two of them had no restraint, no one checking on them, would they hook up? If the answer is yes, then you know this will not end well.

I was told here a long time ago by a poster, "Do you want to be a warden?" 

And what are you really fighting for? Right now it seems one sided.

I would start the 180. Your WH does not seem to care.


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## daibai (Sep 10, 2013)

Also HArryBrown...He is doing all the right things, NC no texting emails telling me when he sees her. Agreed to MC, but it's his feelings that he is not showing. A bit more physical affection but it's just not there for him. That's what concerns me and wonder if it takes time.

I am taking care of myself trying to re-establish a routine together and planning time together which was an issue in the past. At MC today I'm going to do less talking and just mention that he is wearing me down. I am preparing for the worst, but still hopeful.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

No, he is not doing all of the right things. He is doing ENOUGH to make you think he is doing the right things.

No contact is not "some," "sort of" or "occasionally" it means stay away unless it is an accident. You told her to leave him alone and she PROMPTLY went to him. Do you understand how much disrespect that entails towards you and your marriage? She didn't care about you, she had to make sure it was what he wanted. All he can say is "I guess?" That should tell you how much he cares about your marriage.

Sorry, that's leaving the door wide open for her to continue pursuit. To me, he is not defending your marriage at all.


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## daibai (Sep 10, 2013)

Thorburn yes! you hit it on the head! It does seem one-sided and that I am doing all the fighting. And no I do not want to be a warden.

I will pose that question? Would you hook up if no-one was watching you?

The 180 is in progress. Thank you.


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## daibai (Sep 10, 2013)

And yes I do think that they had sex.

I feel pretty filthy about reading his stuff. He suspects but not sure that I did because it's hidden now. That's what gave me clues about a more physical relationship. I have copies some in the safe deposit box. I think it may be time to come clean with that evidence.


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## daibai (Sep 10, 2013)

*Reading my husband's private journals*

And yes I do think that they had sex.

I feel pretty filthy about reading his stuff. He suspects but not sure that I did because it's hidden now. That's what gave me clues about a more physical relationship. I have copies some in the safe deposit box. I think it may be time to come clean with that evidence.


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

I've posted this quote in other people's threads because my wayward husband's individual counseling drove more of a wedge between us, and came close to ending our marriage before we really tried to reconcile. I found it on the website of the National Registry of Marriage Friendly Therapists:

"Individual therapy may undermine more marriages than even poor couples therapy. Because relationship problems are the main problem people bring to individual therapists, individual therapists are treating marriages whether or not they realize it. Unless the therapist has values that support marriage and is careful not to turn the non-present partner into a villain, individual therapy can undermine a marriage. Every experienced marriage therapist has heard these stories: a spouse goes into individual therapy, receives support for a one-sided view of the marriage problems, and becomes increasingly pessimistic about the marriage. The therapist then questions why the person stays in an obviously bad marriage. The other spouse is clueless that the marriage is unraveling in therapy, and is not informed until it is too late. These therapists do not intend harm, but often their orientation is to the personal happiness of their individual client who is distressed in a marriage, without enough regard for the welfare of the other spouse...."

I had delayed MC thinking he needed some IC for awhile first. I found out that some of what was going on in his sessions was complaining about me (I was hoping he was working on figuring out what turned him into a cheater - I was wrong). His therapist didn't exactly discourage complaining about me or the marriage, and each week things between us seemed to be getting worse. He stated at one point the therapist asked why he stayed with me if he was so "miserable." When he told me that, I realized he'd been rewriting marital history, and I managed to convince him to quit IC. We're in MC now, and doing much better.

But it sounds like your husband is still in the "fog" - like he's still in a defensive, self-centered mode, not really "getting" it yet. Has he read anything, like the very well-written piece in the newbies post that explains what betrayed spouses go through? Or NOT Just Friends by Shirley Glass? Or How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair by Linda MacDonald? (Very short, easy to read - I highlighted parts and asked my husband to just read those parts.) You may not be able to get through to him, but some of these reading materials might.


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html

Read down a bit, to the part titled:

Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - a reference manual for unfaithful partners

I printed this for my husband.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

daibai,

If you are doing all the work, then your R will never make it. WH is in the fog still.

The OW... She still contacted your H. I would start looking to make her life a little miserable. Post her on cheaterville etc... In no uncertain terms should she contact a married man.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

daibai said:


> Thorburn yes! you hit it on the head! It does seem one-sided and that I am doing all the fighting. And no I do not want to be a warden.
> 
> I will pose that question? Would you hook up if no-one was watching you?
> 
> The 180 is in progress. Thank you.



My guess is if he won't admit sex. Hasn't quit the gym (because that is just flat out necessary for you to heal). He is not going to admit he'd "hook up" if no one was watching.

Just by him going to the gym where she works...even if she's not there. He has to think about her (know her schedule...). It's like she's a parasite still in his system and he doesn't get it.

I would be working harder on a 180 than an R if I were you. 

He's not ready for R yet. You need watch out for you.


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## daibai (Sep 10, 2013)

Yes he is quitting the gym. I told him my fantasy: To call her supervisor (whom I have recently become acquainted with, by chance) at the gym and tell her what is going on with my husband and this woman. I texted the OW twice both when she sent him a text and then when she spoke to my H at the gym. She texted my H on both occasions and I have proof that he did not respond. He has promised not to. She is acting desperate, which is scary.

I told my H that I am irrational right now and there is no telling what I will do next, even I MYSELF don't know what I will do. I don't want to be vengeful bc that would amount to misdirected anger and I DO NOT want to be involved with this woman, just wanted to make a point, which I think that I have. That could be likely driving his NC with this woman rather than R, I know that.

What a mess! So cheesy and so much drama. I never thought this would happen to me...can't believe that anyone survives this, Although once I stopped being fearful and became angry, things got better. Hope this helps someone else on this forum.

The 180 remains in progress and yes, I have read the book "Not just friends" and given a copy of "Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - a reference manual for unfaithful partners" to my husband. Hopefulgirl did your husband admit to reading that book. Mine has said "I skimmed it". So true, he is not ready, so time and a lot of work will tell.

Quitting the Gym is a start, to be continued. Thanks for all the comments and support!


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## dontbeused (Nov 15, 2013)

I guess I need help understanding some basic logic.
Anyone ever heard of a successful R where the WS had no remorse? 
Anyone ever heard of a successful R where the BS allowed the WS to claim to want to R, yet was not willing to be apologetic and filled with remorse?
Anyone heard of a spouse that has been cheated on being wishy washy with their WS returning to the gym where he was having a relationship with OW?


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## daibai (Sep 10, 2013)

Good Questions...Bring it on...

D


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## Kaya62003 (Jan 8, 2013)

I'm going to have to agree with all the other comments informing you, that you can't begin to fix your marriage without 100% responsibility for their actions and remorse. Without that they are telling you they don't feel they did anything wrong and it's completely acceptable for him to be involved with another woman. Despite your objections.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

daibai said:


> The 180 remains in progress and yes, I have read the book "Not just friends" and given a copy of "Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - a reference manual for unfaithful partners" to my husband. Hopefulgirl did your husband admit to reading that book. Mine has said "I skimmed it". So true, he is not ready, so time and a lot of work will tell.
> 
> Quitting the Gym is a start, to be continued. Thanks for all the comments and support!


NOT Just Friends was the first book I bought; my WS' fog was still pretty thick then and it was like pulling teeth to get him to read the highlighted parts of just one chapter. I read "Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse" out loud to him, and also highlighted some parts for him so he could refer to it later. He listened, but in those early days after D-Day I don't know how much of it he really internalized.

Several weeks later someone here recommended How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair and I bought that and highlighted parts of it and gave it to him - I asked him to read just the highlighted parts. By then, his fog had significantly cleared, so he read that pretty quickly.

Reconciliation generally shouldn't start right off the bat because even if the affair is technically over, the wayward's brain isn't fully connected with reality or in the habit of being honest - with you or with themselves. They don't even realize how foggy things are at this stage, and how much fooling not only you but themselves they've been doing. Living a double life with so much deceit has been a pattern (it goes beyond the outright lies - there are lies of omission, planning around your expectations, being on guard, etc.) and they don't just shut that off all of a sudden. There's a gradual re-calibration period, and it is very awkward IF the person has some integrity in there (if the person was a narcissist or sociopath all along, then they've lied all their lives to get what they want and this is nothing new for them). 

Hopefully, you are not the only one who is wondering "who IS this pod person?" If there are even some stirrings of internal conflict going on with him (even if it's not being admitted to you), there is some degree of (foggy) questioning how your wayward spouse could have done what he did. But shame may keep that inside for now. I hope that's what's going on. Keep doing the 180 and that may eventually coax it out. Good luck!!


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