# Other side (MINE) of The Fog



## How2BelieveAndMoveOn (Sep 10, 2010)

Married for 16 years...together for 22.
I am just past 3 months since DDAY. 
My W's EA/PA are not ongoing.
We are in MC.

Why do I feel like the problems in our marriage are all about me and what I didn't do for her? I never stood up along the way and said that I was unhappy with the way things were going, but in hindsight, I clearly was just denying my own feelings (or just chalking them up to being "normal"). But whenever I try to raise the point that we BOTH contributed to the way our marriage was going, I feel like I get beat down. I feel like her reaction is based in The Fog and I certainly don't want to push her deeper into The Fog, but why do I feel like my unhappiness in the marriage is now irrelevant? She sees the equation as simple as "Her affair" = "my past injustices to her". BTW, these are the typical injustices: didn't meet her emotional needs, didn't make her feel important or appreciated. And I am willing to accept that these are all things that I need to improve on (and I've said so and have actively tried to demonstrate now).

So where do my past feelings about our marriage fit in? Do I just need to swallow these and focus on the future of our marriage? Or do I need these to be acknowledged (and if so, do I need to wait for her to get to the other side of The Fog?)


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

I wish I could help. I know where you are, a lot of BS are there at some point. Your spouse cheats and then all the sudden instead of focusing on their betrayal its about you and what you did or didn't do. Feels like you are being drowned. 

All I can say is that I think its helpful to remind the DS that they weren't meeting your needs either. They were just able to demonize you enough to make sure that they could rationalize their affair, and now that its over they keep it there to ensure that they don't have to realize how horrible what they did was. 

Ask the counselor when you go in next. I realize I wasn't meeting all her needs, but why aren't we talking about how she wasn't meeting MINE??


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## toolate (Sep 22, 2009)

How2BelieveAndMoveOn said:


> Married for 16 years...together for 22.
> I am just past 3 months since DDAY.
> My W's EA/PA are not ongoing.
> We are in MC.
> ...


WHy do you feel like you get a beat down? Bc you will get one when you try to raise a point about anything right now. The way you feel is not irrelevant, she just cant see it bc she still feels justified for having the affair (as you said bc of your past injustices to her). It doesnt make any sense bc its not based on logic. You cant reason with unreality. I just wrote a post about this... back from the fog (I think I titled it that). Its long, but I address both the cheater and the cheated on (bc I have been both). 

No, you dont need to swallow the past feelings, entirely. You have to know yourself and your boundaries, and tell her that you love her (if you do). It is your pride and insecurity making you want to address the past feelings... I felt almost exactly as you do and I ended up in a fog of my own and having an affair bc husband wasnt willing to talk or have mutual sex or allow me to seduce him, or show me that he wanted me or loved me... me me me is all he saw which made him retract even more. Which made my justifications build for finding someone to have on the side.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I think that is the kind of communication How2 is looking for from his wife. If I'm reading it right, How2 is looking for an apology from the wrong his wife did, not an excuse. An addmissin that it was sinful,wrong,criminal in some states, disloyal, and hurtful...not "I did it b/c you caused it".

I was neglected for years and I didnt, sleep around? So now our wayward spouses can walk around and not talk about there shameful behavior, but I have to talk about my neglecting behavior to W, and how sorry I AM ?

So basicly, I won't neglect her and she won't sleep around. Well hell that works for me.. and now we can't talk about our past bad behaviors, only our future positive behaviors. Is that how it should be?


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## jessi (Feb 11, 2009)

First of all it's very early in your recovery process and what is going on with your wife is very normal, my husband said this as well almost the same script........when he said things like it was my fault, I would just say to him Do You think You were the only One not happy........
The affair your wife had was her decision alone, she could have done things differently but she chose to have an affair......that decision didn't have anything to do with you, it was about her inability to stay true to her word to you.......
You did nothing wrong, you kept your word to her, you didn't have an affair and you are willing to work together to fix what was wrong in the marriage, own your faults but in no way feel responsible for her decisions....
Your wife is still in the middle of her fogginess, so don't listen to what she is saying until that lifts for her, this will take a bit of time, she is not still in contact with OM.......fog doesn't lift until contact stops.......
Calmly set your boundaries up with your wife and calmly explain that you weren't happy either but you didn't decide to involve someone else in your marriage.....
Patience my friend, stay strong and be proud of who you are......


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## How2BelieveAndMoveOn (Sep 10, 2010)

Thanks for the replies so far! I get that all of this is "normal"...how f'ed up is that concept, that any of this is normal??? Before all of this, I would have thought "normal" would be for her to come crawling back to me, kissing my feet and doting on me in every way possible as her way of showing me how wrong she was!

Anyway, much of my own issues at this point definitely have to do with MY wounded pride and MY own insecurities (Many of which I didn't even realize I had until now!)...I just have to force myself to be patient, believe in myself and be hopeful that recovery is in the cards for us.

How do we know when the fog has lifted? Is there an epiphany or an "aha" moment for either of us? Or is it just a gradual fade? How long before it doesn't feel like we're playing a game of strategy with each other anymore...(the 180, being loving but not desperate, being committed but willing to walk away if need be, etc, etc, etc)?


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

The problem people face is that the affair usually takes the Loyal Spouse by surprise. Almost always, from the Loyal point of view, the marriage is going along ok, maybe some bumps or hurdles, but nothing all that serious. 

But then, all of the sudden, the marriage is in jeopardy. And the Disloyal Spouse is making all kinds of claims (very skewed by fog) about how they could no longer take the problems at home. 

I want to make this very clear: the fog is not built on complete falsehood. Behind the confusion lie kernels of truth. Affairs almost never occur because the Disloyal Spouse is completely evil, and simply are looking for the most painful thing they can do to the most vulnerable person in their lives. Instead, the affair is the WRONG choice that is picked as the solution to the problems at home. The Disloyal meets someone who seems to provide the needs they believe (or actually) are not having fulfilled. They 'fall' for this person, and in doing so, begin a pattern of justifying the affair - minimizing the good of the marriage, maximizing the bad in it; maximizing the good of the affair and minimize the bad in it. 

Upon return to the marriage, it takes some time to get over the initial 'addiction' - but at the same time, the PROBLEMS that they were trying to escape in the marriage are STILL THERE. 

So they are given a very hard choice: come back to the turmoil and apparently insurmountable troubles at home - or face even worse. It is still a choice (from their viewpoint) of two evils. Which do they choose? Most of us would prefer to choose a good rather than an evil. 

And on top of that, quite often the Loyal Spouse refuses to accept that there are problems in the marriage that were so serious that an affair was necessary. Thus, they reason that their spouse must simply be evil, wrongheaded, uncaring, immoral, disturbed and crazy. But this assumption is based upon the wrong propositions. 

First, the problems in a marriage NEVER make an affair necessary. The choice is built on the fact that people tend to respond to things that seem most pleasant at the time - hence, when they meet someone who seems to (or actually) fills the needs they are missing they are faced with a moral choice: and the fog is the mechanism by which they rationalize away the more "negative" branch of the choice (leave the Other Person alone and stay in the pain of the troubles at home).

Second: the problem, while in reality a choice of evil, does not excuse the Loyal Spouse from THEIR responsibility in the marriage. They did NOT make the choice to stray, they are NOT responsible for the choice of their spouse. But a marriage, by its very nature, is the responsibility of BOTH partners, equally. The fact that the Loyal Spouse didn't consider the troubles in the marriage serious enough to fix means that they have dismissed and devalued their partners concerns (even if inadvertently). The Disloyal Spouse is responsible to make the seriousness known - and both partners are responsible to fix the trouble. 

This didn't happen - it's water under the bridge. We live in the present and can only deal with what is going on now.

So the affair ends. The Disloyal Spouse has come back to the marriage: but from their view (as I wrote above) is that they are simply walking into a snake pit - voluntarily. And very often the Loyal Spouse refuses to admit that there are snakes in the room. Instead, they are bound up in the shock of discovering the affair - reeling in pain. They want the Disloyal to pay for the pain caused - they want the Disloyal to make it all go away. Very often they want the Disloyal to empty themselves of all needs and simple spend the rest of the marriage serving the Loyal Spouse and 'making up for' all the pain the affair caused.

This is, in essence, again a devaluing of the Disloyal Spouse, denigrating them to the position of a personal valet, escort and sex toy; something with no valid wants, desires or needs. ("Who cares what THEY want - _I_ was hurt - when do they make up for all the pain they caused against an innocent person who did no wrong?")

Of course, the Disloyal Spouse looks at it in another way: "I spent so long trying to put up with the pain - and then I really messed up. But I know that the pain is still there. And my spouse is simply going to go on ignoring all of that and instead make me bend over backwards servicing them" 

And the Loyal Spouse wanders why the Disloyal seems so intent on wanting to get rid of the pain. From their point of view that pain is imaginary - _they didn't experience it, hence it is all made up_. This is placing _their pain_ as the primary focus of the marriage, and it means that they want the marriage to be 'all about them'. It means that they intend to keep ignoring the pain and trouble their Disloyal Spouse attempted to incorrectly fix. 

The trouble is that it is the MARRIAGE that is in trouble, not the partners. It is the MARRIAGE that must be the focus of the problem solving: what will it take to create a strong, healthy marriage. Of COURSE this depends upon BOTH partners dealing with what they have done wrong in the marriage - it cannot be ignored by either one.

But, an affair is (normally) not a 'spur of the moment' thing (unless drugs get involved). Instead, over time problems in the marriage get to seem insurmountable, and the affair becomes tempting - and then a choice. The Loyal Spouse has not gone through the same amount of time facing the problems. 

So - they want the pain to go away NOW. Understandable, but not really likely. As long as the Disloyal sees life at home as that 'snake pit' the Disloyal will want to get rid of the snakes. They faced that a lot longer than the Loyal Spouse faced the surprise of the affair. 

At some point, BOTH partners will need to work on the marriage - face each other squarely and treat each other in love and respect. It is a moral duty. But until the snakes are flushed away, it will be highly unlikely that the Disloyal will feel SAFE ENOUGH to take care of the pain the Loyal is feeling.


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