# When two become one



## Bartimaus

Scripture says that the two become one when married. I would love to get other peoples thoughts on something that has been bugging me for a very long time.
How does God look at a marriage if one is not in harmony with the other. Is rebellious in ways against the other and lives a life of secret sin. Being a flirt with members of the other sex and has from time to time been sexually active with those of the other sex...but all the while keeping it a secret.
Call it bad karma or God not blessing or whatever you want,but is there a spiritual hindrance then to the relationship?
Does the faithful partner fall under the bad karma or lack of good luck or under God not helping in this realationship?
I really don't know and I am not blaming my wife for this seemingly being a cursed marriage but it has seemed that there has always been a black cloud over our head. There maybe another reason for this I don't know but was just wanting some insight from others on this thought.


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## cb45

Bartimaus said:


> Scripture says that the two become one when married. I would love to get other peoples thoughts on something that has been bugging me for a very long time.
> 1. How does God look at a marriage if one is not in harmony with the other. 2. Is rebellious in ways against the other and lives a life of secret sin in flirting with others and has from time to time been sexually active with them...but, all the while keeping it a secret.
> Call it bad karma or God not blessing or whatever you wantto call it? 3. is there a spiritual hindrance then to the relationship?
> Does the faithful partner fall under the bad karma or lack of good luck or under God not helping in this realationship?
> I really don't know and I am not blaming my wife for this seemingly being a cursed marriage but it has seemed that there has always been a black cloud over our head. There maybe another reason for this I don't know but was just wanting some insight from others on this thought.


replies by numbers:

1. can be disharmonious at times; is ok but...just dont stay
"stuck" there or Love can be in doubt/questionable over 
the long run.

2. Not honored, at all. secret sex sins? Now....miracles still
possible/ "on the table" but again, not honored.

3. Yes, theres big time spiritual hindrance but, there is nuttin
God can't do. HIS choice as HE sees begin from end.
Your underlined requires more info/data/transparency in order
for anyone here to give well informed advice. please fill in the
"blanks" so to speak.

shalom.


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## Bartimaus

CB45 I am not sure what you are saying or asking for but perhaps this is it....as I look back over the years I am now thinking that she has always seemed to hold a grudge towards me for some reason and/or has had an emormous amount of resentment. I say this because to me,it seems that she has never been in harmony with me but has always,at least to a good extent,seemed like someone that was just living with me because....who knows....religious reasons or maybe she didn't ever divorce me because she has never wanted to look like the 'bad' guy to our children. 
The resentment I mention...she has been the independent type that has seemed rebellious because of different things. One example being finances. Right before we separated she obtained credit to buy our 32 year old son a car. This is the 2nd time she has done this without letting me know. The first car,he never paid for,stopped working,and has only worked about 7 years in his life. We had to pay for that car.
We have not had bad arguements about most things like this but my point to make is that she has never cared to clue me in on what she does and doesn't tell me much.
At times when I have observed 'red flags' and complain,then after the 'red flag' incident if we would go shopping or wherever,I would see her make alot of eye contact with other men. Like a rebellion towards me with her actions saying, " I'll show you buster!". She has never been a wife that has seemed to be one with me though she has not tried to stop me from anyting like my pursuing singing gospel music or any hobbies,she has never tried to be in harmony. Only that she has not resisted,but no oneness. 
Sorry for the long post,and I could go on but she has shown resentment and rebellion and seems to get her support for what's lacking in our emotional side of the relationship from other men.
I have to add that our sex life has been good but....other than that we have not had a good marriage for the most part.. And,if my words make it sound like I may be a mean or controlling man that made her withdraw, no! I feel that I have been the one to want harmony and to be 'one' but she has been too independent to desire or need that.


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## cb45

*i understand more now, tks.*

tho' theres more u need to share here, now i have more insight to go on.

u are not alone in yer feelings on lack of TRUE intimacy. folks here confuse intimacy = sex but thats not entirely the case/true
now is it, Bart? Oneness as u state it is an elusive ordeal many
a marriage goes thru. few achieve it as well as DESIRED.
which brings me to my pt with u.

u need to lower yer expectations if u r to continue (happily/joyfully) in this "tainted" marriage of 38yrs.

easier said than done but, u can only control u, not her.

u have the right to refuse/disagree but u GET what u GOT when
u do that.

this is not to say u dont have valid pts or concerns or needs
that arent being met. Yet, what is it u are trying to accomplish
now? put them down on a list.

for instance, some put marriage survival as no.1 and they'll 
sacrifice anything/anyone to have it (detrimental, i'd say).

others put it (near) dead last, when they really LIST things
down.

do this. it'll give u focus.

i understand bout all the transgressions, been there, being there
even now to some degree but, TIME is the player in my scenario
it seems. God controls "time" so my reliance is on God to show
the way. patience & shalom, go hand n hand.

its coming....it'll happen.

shalom.


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## Bartimaus

*Re: i understand more now, tks.*



cb45 said:


> tho' theres more u need to share here, now i have more insight to go on.
> 
> u are not alone in yer feelings on lack of TRUE intimacy. folks here confuse intimacy = sex but thats not entirely the case/true
> now is it, Bart? Oneness as u state it is an elusive ordeal many
> a marriage goes thru. few achieve it as well as DESIRED.
> which brings me to my pt with u.
> 
> u need to lower yer expectations if u r to continue (happily/joyfully) in this "tainted" marriage of 38yrs.
> 
> easier said than done but, u can only control u, not her.
> 
> u have the right to refuse/disagree but u GET what u GOT when
> u do that.
> 
> this is not to say u dont have valid pts or concerns or needs
> that arent being met. Yet, what is it u are trying to accomplish
> now? put them down on a list.
> 
> for instance, some put marriage survival as no.1 and they'll
> sacrifice anything/anyone to have it (detrimental, i'd say).
> 
> others put it (near) dead last, when they really LIST things
> down.
> 
> do this. it'll give u focus.
> 
> i understand bout all the transgressions, been there, being there
> even now to some degree but, TIME is the player in my scenario
> it seems. God controls "time" so my reliance is on God to show
> the way. patience & shalom, go hand n hand.
> 
> its coming....it'll happen.
> 
> shalom.


Intimacy? Ha! Though she is red hot...we never had intimacy!
Maybe it's just me feeling sorry for myself but I am now seeing that she has been a monster. Maybe my 38 years of allowing her rug sweeping has turned her into that but brother,as I have said before,if I had been the female and her the male,I would have had black eyes and broke jaws more than once. This woman has been abusive with her lies and cheating ways and has tried to kill my spirit!
My expectations of or for her? It has only been that she would stop lieing about everything under the sun and stop flirting and cheating. IF,I HAD ONLY HAD THAT I WOULD HAVE BEEN A HAPPY MAN!
What am I trying to accomplish now? Just to keep my sanity and stay with God. It isn't easy to be all alone after 38 years, and I have no friends. I don't want another woman but I am not sure if I can stay a christain and not go looking. I want to be able to stay single and sing in a quartet again. To stay busy for the lord and not get involved again because now...I consider myself damaged goods that may never be able to trust anyone again.


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## cb45

go with GOD; map out a plan; see if H>S> confirms/condones it.

better yet, if u r truly listening or "in touch" with H>S>, then
wait on H>S> direction, not yer plan.

ya digg me?


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## Bartimaus

cb45 said:


> go with GOD; map out a plan; see if H>S> confirms/condones it.
> 
> better yet, if u r truly listening or "in touch" with H>S>, then
> wait on H>S> direction, not yer plan.
> 
> ya digg me?


Yes,I have had a deep settled feeling at times that is what I should do instead of going in a direction that I think is best.
At the point that I am right now though that isn't easy,my faith is tried everyday,and I fail often. 
I have a feeling that God has a plan and has initiated it but with me not knowing it and being alone now I feel like I am in a row boat in the middle of the ocean some times...lost.


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## cb45

understood/got it, bart.

yet, like the 1st step of faith, take that paddle, or oars (if u have 2 of 'em) and "stroke...stroke...stroke...." all the while
praying/believing/seeing Gods "current" coming to capture u,
help u on yer way to another shoreline in which to settle.

change isnt easy. in fact its downright hard, esp if we lose 
sight of God being the one who's making the "change(s)", or 
in ultimate control of them as it be.

we are all in change mode(s). some faster/bigger than others
but nonetheless all in flux/change. 

i pray Elohims' shalom asap for each & every one of us.

selah.


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## annagarret

God is continually renewing your mind and changing your heart as you struggle in your marriage. 2 becoming 1 is definately about dying to oneself for the sake of the marriage. Where one is weak the other is strong. Hang in there, seek christian counsel atleast from trusted friends and remember you are not alone this 2 becoming 1 takes a lifetime to conquer and the Holy Spirit to be the glue.....


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## hurtnohio

I'm not sure how deep into theology it's appropriate to get, but it helps me to understand that our world experienced sin and has been torn away from God's ideal since Adam spoke those words in Genesis. I'm not saying that this is still not God's ideal plan for us, but it is much more difficult to achieve since sin separated us from our creator. Now, selfishness seems to rule all human relationships, including marriage. 

Notice that Adam & Eve's first act after they sinned was to put some clothes on. The innocence that had been part of their glorious, naked intimacy up until that point was gone. And they both noticed it right away. That's one of the saddest things I see in the story of The Fall.

That's the bad news. The good news is that the rest of the Bible is God's plan to redeem us and bring us back to the original plan. He still desires us to have true intimacy in our marriages; not just sex, but intimacy. But we fist of all have to get rid of our selfishness before we can truly love and be loved by another. And the only way we can become truly selfless is to allow God to work in us. But that means both partners must give themselves to God, and then to each other. God won't redeem someone who doesn't want to be redeemed.

It's sad how we have all gotten so far away from God's plan. I think when I weep alone at night for my strained marriage, it's because something inside me knows this was not how God meant it to be. I think it's also a soul-hunger that makes me realize even the best marriage in the world is only a tiny glimpse of what it was meant to be. That loneliness I feel reminds me that I'll never be completely at peace until I'm completely in God's hands after I die. But until then, I keep praying and hoping that my marriage can become more like God's ideal than it is now.

I'm trying to answer your question, but I'm afraid I talked too much about me. The question you asked is one that I'm struggling with myself right now.

God is the only answer to true intimacy. If either spouse is not willing to humble themselves before God and do things His way, I don't think true intimacy is possible. But I have seen God's grace break through to some very stubborn people, so anything is possible.

Peace. I'm prayin' for you.


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## cb45

It's sad how we have all gotten so far away from God's plan. I think when I weep alone at night for my strained marriage, it's because something inside me knows this was not how God meant it to be. I think it's also a soul-hunger that makes me realize even the best marriage in the world is only a tiny glimpse of what it was meant to be. That loneliness I feel reminds me that I'll never be completely at peace until I'm completely in God's hands after I die. But until then, I keep praying and hoping that my marriage can become more like God's ideal than it is now.

God is the only answer to true intimacy. If either spouse is not willing to humble themselves before God and do things His way, I don't think true intimacy is possible. But I have seen God's grace break through to some very stubborn people, so anything is possible.-------hurtnohio

Since u speak of weeping alone at night, i'll assume most likely yer female, as u dont list
any info whatsoever in yer profile, so forgive me if i refer wrongly/in error to yer being female.

sorry to hear of marriage pain suffered by all here. it is a process i reckon, that we are to learn from. yet its roots run
deeper than most know, or wish to know (?).

Her underlined para is what i've said, and will continue to say in sooooo many words both here and abroad re: marriage as we know it here on earth, in the flesh more specifically put. WE need intimacy with God 1st n foremost before we can make OUR lessor 
version "work" for us (tho' our soul will continually seek God's intimacy first, not our mates 1st) as WE learn whats best, what works/doesnt work, via our "intimacy" with HIM (Elohim).

PM me if u wish to discuss the deeper roots & their significance
as i dont wish to hijack Barts thread here, w/out his permission, that is.

shalom


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## Bartimaus

Thanks for the replys. 
Cb45 go ahead and hijack if you want because you perhaps have touched on the root cause of why my marriage never had intimacy.
Years ago I was very close to God because I prayed alot and abstained from everything that would hinder my relationship with him. Perhaps the reason for me doing that was that I was an abandoned child at the age of two,though the family did get back together after awhile. And though she was a very good mother in other ways,she didn't believe in holding babies alot and spoiling them,to use her own words. Maybe it was because of that,I don't know,but I feel I have lived with a hole in my heart most of my life. And I am not sure about this,perhaps it's because this is now the 4th time my wife has left me,but I have been wondering if I may have an anxiety problem about being unloved and abandoned. When the wife would leave me I would get to the point of chaos,almost insanity and no matter what she had done I would plead with her to come back to me. Sad I know.
As you might figure by now,although her home was troubled also,she doesn't need intimacy half as much as I have. I think others that know us would agree,the one thing we have not had is intimacy in a harmonious way. By intimacy I don't mean sex but being in loving harmony and oneness.
Now we are divorcing in 24 days (court date) after over 38 years of marriage and as you might guess what my mind keeps going to,,,needing another woman to sooth this crushed heart of mine and keep me from being abandoned and alone. I don't have another friend or woman,so as you can imagine,I am not doing well at all. Grief is taking hold bad.


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## hurtnohio

cb45 said:


> Since u speak of weeping alone at night, i'll assume most likely yer female, as u dont list
> any info whatsoever in yer profile, so forgive me if i refer wrongly/in error to yer being female.
> 
> sorry to hear of marriage pain suffered by all here. it is a process i reckon, that we are to learn from. yet its roots run
> deeper than most know, or wish to know (?).
> 
> Her underlined para is what i've said, and will continue to say in sooooo many words both here and abroad re: marriage as we know it here on earth, in the flesh more specifically put. WE need intimacy with God 1st n foremost before we can make OUR lessor
> version "work" for us (tho' our soul will continually seek God's intimacy first, not our mates 1st) as WE learn whats best, what works/doesnt work, via our "intimacy" with HIM (Elohim).
> 
> PM me if u wish to discuss the deeper roots & their significance
> as i dont wish to hijack Barts thread here, w/out his permission, that is.
> 
> shalom


Actually, I'm a man. My wife and I are still together in a sense. We live under the same roof. Different rooms, very little communication. Zero sex. She has some control issues and I'm learning to be strong in front of her, setting appropriate boundaries and being assertive. Above all else, I've decided never to let her see me depressed or moping around. I've decided I'm gonna live my life and if she wants to join in, great, but I'm not going to let her hold me back emotionally any more.

But sometimes I do find myself shedding a few tears at night when I'm in "my" (not our) bed. I cry for what was, what could have been. We're both Christians, so it makes me wonder how we can be so far from true intimacy.

As for the OP, I'm sorry for your loss, bro. You say you don't have many friends. Is it possible you have some friendships that you've neglected but which you can repair? You're gonna need support from someone during all this. Do you have a church? Are there friends there who can help?

I'm sad for the loss of your marriage. 38 years is a heck of an investment to lose.


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## cb45

Lets all pray for God to fill our hearts with HIS love and understanding so we can get thru
all this mess.

methinks we can help the process if we plan our day in serving others as this is the best hole-filler on earth, and is scriptural to boot. (i.e., the two greatest commandments)

i'd find volunteer work, like big brother organization etc to go
along with joining a gym as well as see what groups/resources
any church has.

u need to fill yer time, and be productive in order to cope well.

God will bless this kinda service/sacrifice/faith, methinks.

:smthumbup:


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## Bartimaus

hurtnohio, I do go to church but it is a small church and there is no one there that I would feel comfortable talking to really. 
As far as friends to talk to...not really. No current friends to be honest. And even if I did the two friends I had from a couple of years ago do know the wife and where she works at (retail) and have access to go there and talk to her anytime about what I had said. One of those guys,even though he is married, seemed to have the 'hots' for my wife and may very well approach her for a date. The reason he is not my friend now was due to a statement he made to her. His wife knows he is a flirt...actually he is still good friends with his first wife and his present wife knows that, go figure?
I have been seeking for someone to talk to but but I don't like the mental health clinics help. I have joined a divorced and separated group here in town and it seems to be worthwhile but it only meets one day a week for 1 1/2 hours.
Hurtnohio,from my experience with a long and rough marriage I can see how that peoples pride and lack of wanting to communicate are perhaps the biggest reason for separation and divorce. Is there any way that you and your wife can seek council together to help bring you two to see the things that you may be doing to cause the trouble you have? If that sounds cold I don't mean it that way at all but mean it to help each see the things that they may not realise actually that are causing the other to react in negative and perhaps hurtful ways. Sometimes it's that simple...all we see is what is happening to us and we then behave in the wrong way. Especially if it is a love relationship. Once we see that we were reacting and behaving in the wrong way then we can come to the place of needing to compromise some if we want to keep the marriage together. If we are not willing to compromise,after aknowledging that we have not reacted properly then it's the same ol same ol. Don't know,just trying to advise some counciling should this be what might help you and her.


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