# 180 help needed



## badlychrushed (Mar 26, 2012)

So, How do you do a 180 when your lives are so intertwined? 

My wife and I separated last fall after being together for 12 years. At first I didn't feel like it was the end of things, and I know she didn't totally think that either. She had built up a lot of resentment toward me and our marriage because intimacy had basically died. She has lived with severe biological depression since the age of 12. For several years I was able to help her and be there for her, but as thing went on it got harder for me to be there completely. It built up a kind of ptsd like response in me. When the depression would come on I got to a point where I just didn't know what to do any more, and it drove us apart. 

When we got her an apartment I had hoped the space might bring us closer, but I guess I wasn't quite sure what I wanted myself. Over the winter I tried to imagine life without her, but it always felt empty. I was very stuck in my head for those first 4 months and winter is a slow time of year for our business. So the combination of my paralyzing introspection and the money fears drove her to a dating site where she met someone that she says she fell immediately in love with.

That was what it took to finally wake my dumb**s up. When she told me about it, all my walls broke down and I went through all the emotional stuff that so many of you have gone through. I knew I wanted her back and that I always loved her. We talked a lot and I told her how I felt and about all the things that went wrong with us.

She says she loves me and I know she does, but she can't turn back. She says she needs to see if what she found is really what she thinks it is. They hardly ever see each other and talk maybe once a week on the phone. He lives 3 hours away and is apparently extremely busy with his business, but this is just temporary She says it feels like the kind of love you see in the movies. If it was that, I don't see how anything would keep them apart. My thoughts are that she is in love with an illusion, but what do I know, I'm not there.

I've tried 180 several times, but we are so intertwined with our life and business that I have to see her and talk to her nearly every other day.I was able to avoid talking to her for nearly a week at one point and she did start to really miss me, but not enough. She want's to keep the "friendship" we've always had, but I told her we were always more that friends and that I can't be her buddy while she's breaking my heart.

My business is going nuts right now and opportunities are popping up like crazy that could be huge for both of us. But I can't do it with her as my friend. I want all of her.

She seems to start reconsidering a tiny bit, but as soon as she talks to him it's "Sorry I love him". What can I do?

Thanks


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Sorry man, until the OM is out of the picture, its a lossing battle. Right now you can just make the affiar as inconvienent as possible. Most likely the lack of time they spend together is a sign the OM is married.

So find out by investigating this your self, and if the OM is married then expose the affair to OMW (other mans wife).

Thats a start.

If it continues then expose to close family and some one your WW respects and values there opinion and support the marriage.

Again do your research find out if OM has a wife/GF and expose it.

I also suggest you file and have her served, this tactic may make her second guess her choices and make her think twice in what she is about to lose.....the filling can always be withdrawn before it finalized if she stops all contact with OM.


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## badlychrushed (Mar 26, 2012)

Interesting thought about him possibly being married. I had wondered about that a couple times. I tried doing some investigating on the internet, but the guy has no cell phone, no facebook. He calls from his land line or from his eyeware store. He is an optometrist. but no website for his store. How can I find more? The guy leaves no internet trail at all. He has had to take a couple trips out of state since she started seeing him and it all feels very fishy to me.

My wife is no idiot, but her judgement in people can sometimes be lacking at best.


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## Married in VA (Jan 6, 2012)

Badlycrushed,
If you know his name, then go to People Search | Background Check | Reverse Cell Phone Lookup - Intelius.com and pay the small cost to run the background report and get his name, phone number, and people he is related to. Then expose if necessary.
As stated by the guy above, no R is possible if OM is in the picture. She is getting a dopamine rush from him. They have no history and she will see him as perfect right now. Your WW will pin ALL HER NEGATIVE FEELINGS on you and reserve the positive for the OM only. You cannot compete with this. There are two choices for your WW right now. They are:
Choice A: EA ends now and she goes fully NC with a written letter.
Choice B: You have her served and you divorce.
There is no choice C as that leads to limbo which is hell.

The 180 is to get you ready to move on without your WW, it is not a tactic or strategy to get her back. Until OM is out of the picture you must let her go if she is not willing to end it. Sorry, but that is the bottom line. Your lives are not as intertwined as you think. Businesses can be started and ended and new ones started again. You have to take care of yourself first and right now you are living in an open marriage(emotionally anyway). There is no room in your marriage for a 3rd party. Tell you WW if she cannot end this then you have to let her go from the business or you are leaving. Best of luck.


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## WhyinSC (Dec 16, 2011)

Honestly her little world is going to come crashing down in the next year probably sooner. She will be devistated. Start working on yourself and get strong, get a life...

You need to have your head on straight when she comes out of it and she will. Her OM sounds like the type we see on here everyday that gets LEFT by his wife because he cannot give her all the emotional support she needs and wants. Just a matter of time before she figures it out and wants back in with you. Resist Sir....


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## badlychrushed (Mar 26, 2012)

Thanks a lot for the advice everyone. I posted this yesterday looking for confirmation on what I already knew I had to do. I knew I had to meet with her this morning and was feeling a bit weak, so I needed to hear some voices that would keep me on track. Thanks! I told her it's done. If she want's to be with him then she should be with him, but there will be no us. No friendship, business partners, or anything else. It was all said calm and cool and with respect. She agreed that no contact between us might be best for her too, because she keeps going back and forth. Well... I am going to continue healing myself and building my life without her. I have already made great strides in that direction. I lost nearly 30 pounds, as I mentioned my business is going great, and several old habits that have caused blocks in my progress have fallen away. Life looks good! I don't anticipate the pain will go away anytime soon, but I can be with it and not let it run my life. Should she change her mind, I would welcome the chance to work out what ever problems remain and move forward together, but I won't wait for it.


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## badlychrushed (Mar 26, 2012)

WhyinSC said:


> Honestly her little world is going to come crashing down in the next year probably sooner. She will be devistated. Start working on yourself and get strong, get a life...
> 
> You need to have your head on straight when she comes out of it and she will. Her OM sounds like the type we see on here everyday that gets LEFT by his wife because he cannot give her all the emotional support she needs and wants. Just a matter of time before she figures it out and wants back in with you. Resist Sir....


I do believe her fantasy will come to an end. I'm pretty sure he isn't married, but I agree that he is probably someone who won't take enough time out of his work to give full attention to the relationship. That already seems clear to me. She says his being this busy is just temporary, but it's been nearly 3 months and shows no sign of changing. Oh well,... good luck to her. I will miss her terribly.


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## badlychrushed (Mar 26, 2012)

Well, it looks like the OM might be out of the picture. Maybe! She hasn't heard from him in a little over a week. Last time she talked to him she was depressed and drank too much, showed her darker emotions and he said he can't go there with her. Think she might have scared him off. I hope so!

I talked to her briefly when I went to give her divorce papers. I've been really trying to keep up NC and doing pretty good at it, but damn it's hard! Felt like my head was going to pop like a big zit a couple days ago, but I was able to keep from calling her.

She said she still thinks we need to divorce, but the a couple minutes into the conversation she kind of put it on me about filing saying if it's what I think I need to do. She's very confused obviously. I told her I didn't want to file and that I wanted to work on rebuilding our relationship, but if we can't come together and do the work then divorce is what has to be done.

She said we are probably co-dependent in ways we don't even realize, and I know she's right, but I would love to turn that co-dependence to interdependence.

I'm really hoping the OM is gone for good, and that she just needs more time to deal with the emotional attachment she developed there. I will keep up NC and keep working on me, but I know I can't let go of hope for reconciliation.


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## badlychrushed (Mar 26, 2012)

What a difference a day makes.

A neighbor came over a couple nights ago and we stayed up way too late babbling and drinking. Yesterday morning I woke up mildly hungover, but feeling for the first time that I could really be fine without her. I went for a long walk in the woods and just felt really good the rest of the day. 

Today I picked up a couple really nice commissions, and got a call from a guy at an art magazine that want's to come out next week and do a story on me. I do wood sculpture and so did my wife until a few years ago when she damaged her neck and couldn't use the tools anymore. She was still very useful to our business, because her composition sense is excellent and her drawing abilities are far better than mine. She would do most of the design work on the larger sculpture projects.

While I'm happy about the work coming and the magazine thing, I'm feeling really down, because the person I really want to share that good news with isn't here anymore. I want to talk to her about it and I know she'd be happy to hear it, but I just can't. I'm determined to keep no contact until she's either in my arms or out of my head.

So anyway, one day you're up, next day you're down. Looking forward to the end of the rollercoaster ride. I never much cared for rollercoasters.

Thanks for letting me vent.


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## MyselfAgain (Apr 21, 2012)

Fellow artist/designer here, just 2 weeks into NC and wondering if I will ever hear from stbxh again. Also doing really well work wise this week, and since I work alone, missing the sharing with spouse. Keep on posting, and know that you aren't alone in this....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## badlychrushed (Mar 26, 2012)

Thank you so much! I really needed that tonight. I know none of us are alone, but it's amazing how much we can feel that way at times.

I wish you the best! thanks.


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## badlychrushed (Mar 26, 2012)

Well, I will say it again. What a difference a day makes.

I was really struggling this morning with trying to finish a few pieces that have to be delivered tomorrow. I needed help badly to get them painted. That is something She always did for me and she was great at it. 

I really didn't want to call her, but I felt I had no other choice if I was going to get everything done in time, so I broke down and asked her to come over and help me get things finished. 

We did a lot of talking while we worked and she said she'd been wanting to call and talk to me, but she wanted to give me my space. She said she wanted to just let go of all the baggage and move on with her life, but doing that meant throwing away everything we had and meant to each other. It was like throwing the baby out with the bath water(we both came up with the expression at the same time).

Since the OM has been out of the scene she's been looking at us from a different perspective. She told me that he broke it off with her because she had unfinished business here. Aw, what nice guy...ppthhpt!(raspberry sound). She was noticing that he may not be quite as special as she initially dreamed.

So anyway, she does want to work on our relationship. I told her we would have to take thing slow and not throw the problems that brought us to this point under the rug. She wholeheartedly agreed and we did start to discuss some issues. It felt like a very real and promising start. We'll see where it goes...fingers crossed.

Thanks folks.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Nice to hear badlycrushed, good luck!!


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## UpnDown (May 4, 2012)

Hope all works out for you!


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## badlychrushed (Mar 26, 2012)

samyeagar said:


> That does sound very promising for sure!
> 
> Just be careful not to find yourself back at square one with the hurt again. Keep making the improvements to your self FOR YOU, not for her. I have to keep telling myself the same thing over and over. Get yourself to the point where you can be the best husband YOU can be, not the best husband for her, and in the end, if you want her to come along for the ride because she is the best wife for YOU, then you have made it.


Thanks, That is the plan!
While I can't help feeling a great sense of relief, I'm cautious. I resisted the urge to throw her onto the bed. It wasn't offered, but we both felt it and both knew it wasn't time. Small steps! 

She'll be back in the morning to help do the last bit of work on the sculptures. We'll see how things gelled with her overnight. 

We talked about how we both need to work on ourselves as individuals in order to be better as a couple. We're very much on the same page there. She's felt totally dependent in our marriage since she lost the ability to do the work she did for so many years. I always tried to point out how much she still had to offer, but those words got lost in her depression and were said less often as I withdrew into myself.

We have a lot of work to do and there's no guarantees that we will stay together, but if we do the work and find that the marriage has to end, at least this time I'll be awake for it.


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## badlychrushed (Mar 26, 2012)

Well friends,...It's been a week and I think I can confidently say this will be my last post in the Divorce/Separation section of this forum.

Things have been going really well! The OM (even though he was pretty much out of the picture anyway) got a letter of NC, without me asking her to do it.

Reconnection has been incredible, healthy, and no rug sweeping! I'm a bit amazed at how much we've both grown through this experience, and come to understand ourselves and each other.

This forum was a great help to me and I wish for all of you to get to where you really want to be.

Thanks!


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## UpnDown (May 4, 2012)

Hope it all works out for you dude!


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## badlychrushed (Mar 26, 2012)

Thanks man, and to you too.

The thing that made me most happy was tonight when she told me she didn't need me anymore. I've wanted to hear that for a long time!


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

Great story! Like a shining star in a dark sky 



> The thing that made me most happy was tonight when she told me she didn't need me anymore. I've wanted to hear that for a long time!


Can you elaborate on that? I didn't understand.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

Luckily for you I learned enough from my long and painful D over her cheating down affair to sum up everything you can do to turn things in your favor in just a few steps.

The very first thing you need to do with the 180 is stop chasing, which is very difficult when you love someone that DOES NOT feel the same way about you. The best way to accomplish this is with daily affirmations about how imperfect and horrible your spouse is... based on their actions now. You create enough contempt for her to stop chasing and she'll be left wondering why you don't call and experience the fear of loss sooner or later..... possibly after the sweetheart stage with the OM ends.

Face it, she is not the same person as of now and will do just about anything to justify her reasons for quitting the marriage and having an affair. Which is why your every action to win her back, every argument, and every non distant and platonic action you do will be met with friction and make the OM look that much better. Bad news gets worse because I guarantee the OM isn't completely out of the picture just yet..... There is a strong possibility they will reconnect in the next year because one or both miss each other and still have a high enough deposit in their love banks. Until she sees the perfect image he created of himself is nothing but a front you will still have stiff competition.

DO NOT EVER EVER EVER PUT DOWN THE OM OR YOU WILL BE SORRY. Every jealous attack on him is a jealous attack on her pride and shields her all that more.

Funny thing is you don't even stand a chance right now because you're seen as a controlling d!ckhead that won't allow her the freedom to live her life. Sucks don't it? So long as you fight her to save the marriage, switch the D to an S, and so forth you're going to be the villain in her eyes. BUT if you can swallow your pride and give in to what she thinks she wants you'll stop all that petty arguing and and start to change her view of you. One of my favorite divorce lines it "I would prefer we work on the marriage, but you're right it's impossible. I'm sorry I was so controlling and kept you from finding someone more deserving sooner.". It's exactly what she wants to hear and is the first step in changing her expectation of you.

Once that's said and done you'll have seriously work on avoiding any and all serious arguments with her whenever you do communicate. It's not very easy to accomplish or realistic in any relationship but it's exactly what the OM has been doing to make himself look that much better than you. Even if you fight all the way up to court you can get yourself out of restricted custody, temporary restraining orders, and all that fun BS by simple humbling yourself and sacrificing a little bit for her in mediation. Now you'll need to ignore her most of the time and only return calls later on keeping them under five minutes and texting with very short sentences for one or two messages. Do not be the guy that comforts his stbs all the way through divorce or you'll lose any shred of respect she had for you. 

After that just give it time and take out all the hurt feelings and stress over this on your body through working out and self improvement. You need to forget her for a while, or at least take more time for yourself without stressing yourself sick. I promise you will have 101 opportunities to improve relations with her and talk more in the future but you're going to have to play by her rules for a while and stop needing a woman that doesn't care about you. If nothing else you can still wish her happy birthday in the future and friendly hello every 3 to 6 months in the future. Give her time and space to enjoy her affair and let him undo his perfect image until he's the controlling d!ckhead she thought you were, except he can't replace her good memories of you and your marriage to her.... and you can bet he will grow jealous and controlling of her because they are both cheaters and try all that much harder to replace all the firsts you had with her.... Especially if you're still talking to her once in a while if even as distant friends. Just give her a few years to see how single life sucks after marriage and the good men ARE harder to find and keep.


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## badlychrushed (Mar 26, 2012)

synthetic said:


> Great story! Like a shining star in a dark sky
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## badlychrushed (Mar 26, 2012)

Nsweet, I appreciate your insights, but what you say seems to be a one-size-fits-all solution. While I agree with much of what you said, I have to rely on my own intuition (which always serves me well). If I were able to write the particulars of my situation I'd write a book, so since I have no plans to write a book I have to post what I feel at the moment and that leaves out a whole lot of details.

Thanks very much!


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

Ok?
Look, you can either stubbornly go off your own intuition and fight off and on through an ugly divorce because you're highly emotional and think you know what's best. OR you can learn from other people's mistakes and lessons and get through this as calmly and friendly as possible. It's up to you, but I guarantee at some point you'll be facing an argument that's completely unnecessary yet you feel you can be right about and control that which you have no control over.


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## badlychrushed (Mar 26, 2012)

Or we could move forward learning from our own mistakes. Communicate rather than fight.

Damn, If we all listened to you no one would even try to fix their relationship. Thanks for your input, but you don't know. What little I've explained here about my situation is just that, a little. There are a whole lot more details needed before you can make such an absolute judgment on my situation.

Thanks, but no thanks


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## badlychrushed (Mar 26, 2012)

By the way, All the things you said in your first response, I did.
I never said anything about the OM. I told her to go be with him and that she deserves to be happy. I left her alone, never called her, spent my time building up myself, and all that. It just didn't take years for her to come around.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

You can't fix the relationship by pretending you know everything already. That's why you're divorcing in the first place - either boredom, lack of investment, arguments, etc. But I guess if we all were like you we wouldn't even need to be posting on TAM because we know what we're doing and don't need to ask for help.


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## badlychrushed (Mar 26, 2012)

Nsweet said:


> You can't fix the relationship by pretending you know everything already.


I totally agree!

I don't presume to know everything, and I'm under no illusion that life will be rosy from here on out. We both know there is much work to be done to create a healthy functioning marriage, and that the issues that brought us to the point of nearly divorcing need our attention. As I said earlier we are not sweeping the problems under the rug and carrying on in some false state of bliss.

I came here looking for advice and I got a lot of it. I used what I felt was pertinent to my situation, and considered all of it. In fact your response would have been spot on had I heard it a few weeks ago, but my situation has changed. 

I don't believe there is any one, absolute way that is 100% right for every situation. All our circumstances are different regardless of their similarities. I don't know everything, that's why I looked for advice here and from many other sources. I know myself and I know my wife, in fact I'm continuing to understand both of us better all the time.

We don't need to be out of each others lives for a year or more, but we do need to be always aware of the problems that brought us to this point. Having that awareness and actively working to change the habits, thought patterns, and perceptions that caused us to pull away from each other is a good start, and we are both wholeheartedly willing to take the steps needed to build a new relationship.

I don't know the future, but so far it looks to be moving in a good direction.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

Right, and be prepared to hear a lot of excuses how this was your fault, how she deserves better, and what a horrible person you were to her.... this allowing her to escape any and all responsibility. This is why agreeing with her helps take away the stick she beats you with and any friction she'll create to push you further away. Really wish I knew that sooner but in the end it did get me out of a bullsh!t restraining order and massive court fees.

A lot of descent and good men like yourself will enter relationships not knowing the way they work and the stages that follow, which is why doing a little homework helps you understand what might be just around the corner. I'm not saying you have to be out of her live for years or forever if you can get along with her better after divorce, and a lot of people find after it's over they stop finding reasons to fight over the same issues. Just realize you'll need to give her some distance to live her life and keep yourself out of the non sexual aka "friend zone" in which she'll see you as a non threatening guy friend. No guy wants to be in that codependent position and hear how your ex is mistreated by bad guys she's banging. 

I usually say contact should be kept to every couple of months after D to give yourself time to improve and create mystery over what changes you're making. Though, you may be able to talk more frequently, that is if you can resist chasing her and arguing which may be difficult. I mean you still wish her a happy birthday but nothing more than treating her distant friend. All in all you're really in a good position to rekindle the relationship as friends since you're not constantly at each others throats and arguing constantly about what you want conflicting with what she wants. 

You've got a lot of positive history with her being the first husband and caretaker, actually wanting to save your relationship and show her you'll do anything for her now more than ever. Just allow her some breathing room for a while to see that the OM or future OM, in the next couple of years, will be more of the same and can't replace what you've done for her. Try as she might nobody can replace you after 12 yrs of marriage and be all that different. As a female psychologist said (and I forget her name), after 20 years of practice all men are controlling ******** and all women are emotional idiots  Just goes to show you can't escape some underlying truths.


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## badlychrushed (Mar 26, 2012)

So are you saying even though we've come together and begun to reconcile I should stop, get the divorce anyway, tell her to go date other people for a couple years, but don't worry I'll call you on your Birthday to say hi?


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

No continue with the divorce and treat her like a friend you're not romantically interested in. You can still call her once in a while to say hi if she wants to talk, but keep things between you small and happy talk. Show her how uncontrolling you are by not worrying if she's dating because she's free to live her life just as you are yours. 

I say if she meant anything to you then give her a SURPRISE call on her birthday, don't burn her because you're upset about the OM or divorce. You never know what she'll be going through and it's quite possible she'll be miserable when her perfect life doesn't pan out by then. 

It's just better to take the high road and be kind instead of resentful..... no matter how upset you are show her you're friendly side and she'll want to talk to you. Affairs never last anyways, and you have just as much of a chance if not more of getting her back if you can take a page out of the OM's book and be the better option.


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## jh52 (Apr 29, 2012)

Good luck and hope it all works out. You both need to get to the root cause of your marriage problems and prevent this scenario from ever playing out again with another OM. Just my .02


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## badlychrushed (Mar 26, 2012)

Life is a crazy, wonderful experience! 

Nsweet, I am enjoying our interactions here and while I will not take your advice to the letter, there is much in what you have said that rings true. I will add your wisdom to my own understanding and move forward as I feel is right for me and be open to accepting the consequences of my actions.

The one thing I can say with certainty is that I will be alright! We all will.

Thanks again.


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