# My personal success story (so far)



## LilDoc (Apr 6, 2017)

I am a 45 year old man married for 27 years come August and I am currently surviving an emotional affair by my spouse, thanks in no small part to websites and articles like husbandhelphaven. I have learned so much about myself, my spouse and our relationship. I and we have a long way to go but we are on the right path. Now, on to my story. Who knows, maybe it can help someone else in my shoes someday.

My wife and I both married and had children young, but despite all that we had a good strong marriage. Over time our interests changed and we spent less time together. She got a job and was working some nights and when she got home didn't really feel like doing anything. The intimacy lessened more every day. The little things like hugs, kisses in passing and holding hands or cuddling went away. I would try but she wasn't into it. As a result I pulled away, I found other things to occupy my time like online gaming. It got to the point I was giving her none of my time because I felt she wasn't interested and didn't want my attention. Somehow this was not a red flag to me as it happened so gradually over time, like sitting in water that slowly comes to a boil and not realizing until its to late that your burning. The effect of this was she felt neglected and unloved and grew unhappier by the day. She started really pulling away in the fall of 2015, finding more and more reasons not to come home, started staying up late when she was home and not coming to bed with me until I was long asleep. Now this was a red flag I couldn't miss, and I got depressed. This went on for awhile with several unsuccessful attempts to find out what was wrong. Finally in May of 2016 (yes, some six months after noticing her extreme pulling away) I confronted her and she finally confessed she wasn't happy, that she felt neglected. I told her I still loved her and how I had felt pushed away and she dropped the bomb. I don't feel the same way, I don't love you any more, she said. From that point on there was crying, attempts at communication, yelling and fighting. I wanted to talk about our issues but it was to hard for her. I didn't have many friends and I wasnt a social networking guy, i wasnt even on Facebook. So I had noone to talk to. I decided to look up a old high school male friend that i had lost touch with but had always considered a true friend for someone to confide in. So I got on Facebook for the first time. I didn't friend alot of people because that wasn't my goal, i still wasnt a social networking kind of guy. I did friend my wife, who was a longtime facebook user and addict. I reviewed her feed and noticed some relatively harmless but inappropriate comments by one of her male FB friends. I confronted her about him. He is a cousin to one of her real life and FB friends and is harmless. There is nothing between us she tells me just my friends cousin and we just joke around and post memes. I believe her that at the time that was true. I keep noticing more inappropriate comments both new and older and I continue to ask her about them. His relationship status is 'in a relationship with you know who you are'. Red flag to me, I ask about that specifically and the next thing I know he blocks me. Turns out she told him my concerns and he was freaked out that i looked at his profile. At this time it was a harmless friendship that i just hadn't known about but she disclosed when i asked. I was angry that she had told him about our discussions and told her so. (i had no idea what an emotional affair was then) I also told her i was uncomfortable with a man that made inappropriate comments to my wife hiding from me by blocking me. She got him to unblock me and things continue on. Over the next few months I continue to try to talk about our issues and its just too hard for her. In December of 2016 we separate our finances and i set up support payments, i secure an apartment and prepare to move out. My move-in date for the new apartment is Jan 4 2017. I think the reality of my leaving changes something for my wife. She breaks down about losing her best friend and doesn't want to lose me. She shows some real feelings for the first time so i decide to give her a second chance. I cancel the apartment and I stay, with the idea that finally we will work on us. And we do. From that point on until now we recover. At the beginning of February she unfriends the male FB friend that had been an issue as he had blocked me again and that was inappropriate.

At this point there was no infidelity or any other relationship killer on the table, we had just grown apart so it was pretty easy to get back to a comfortable place and I was happy again.

Last Monday (April 3) my wife went to a concert with a female friend and i stayed home with our dogs and youngest son. As I'm getting ready to go to bed I check my messenger almost by accident (i never really used it and never check it, I'm not a socal networking guy remember) and I have a connect request from that male FB friend of hers along with a few mesages.

March 6 "Ask your wife what she has been doing for the past year and a half. I'd be interested in what she tells you. No need to contact me back. I already know. Thats all."

March 9 picture of my wife smiling and happy next to the male FB friend who is whispering in her ear with the caption "Good times. tell her hi." (at this point i recall she has told me there had been no real life contact only FB messenger joking around)

March 10 nothing but a thumbs up emoji

I.AM.DEVASTATED.

Wanting more information to confront my wife and to get independent stories I ask him for more information but he doesn't respond that night (it was after 10pm) the next morning he had blocked me again.

When my wife gets home from the concert an hour later I confront her. I tell her I want the whole truth but I don't tell her what I know or how. So she proceeds to tell me how she met with her friend and this man for dinner and shopping in a neighboring town (that her and I frequently visit) on several occasions and that he had listened to her and showed her attention. She had begun meeting him there without her female friend to walk thru shops and talk (the same shops we used to go thru). This was happening some time between that May 2016 and February 2017 but she is unclear on dates. She swears it was emotional only, there was no sex or physical actions. Im still devastated and can't believe it went on that long and am doubtful that there wasnt more physical actions. She assures me she has severed all contact since some time ago (she was unclear when at first "i don't remember") and is very visibly remorseful and willing to own her mistakes and do anything to repair us. (at this point we had been doing just that and were happy, but there was an emotional affair i didnt know about) Im in shock, angry, hurt. We talk all night. I ask her alot of questions and get alot of tickle truth that night.

They had met between one and two dozen times over maybe 6 months (we've narrowed the meeting times down to june 2016 to November 2016 with no contact starting feb 2017).

There had been shopping trips where they walked and talked. sometimes about general stuff sometimes just about her troubles with me. he listened to her and told her things she wanted to hear.

there were lunches and dinners. sometime he paid for her, sometimes she paid for him.

he had kissed her. on multiple occasions

she had kissed him back. on multiple occasions.

he had told her he loved her.

she had told him she loved him.

he had tried to touch her breast on multiple occasions but she stopped that.

she swears i now know everything, that there had never been any sex. that he had never succesfully groped her or her him. she is dedicated to us, to doing whatever it takes to repair my trust, she is remorseful, she owns her mistake and takes all blame, she refuses to shift any blame on me.

But she let him take my place in our life! Went places we went, sat in my truck and talked to / kissed him. Told him she loved him!

Over the past week i have felt extreme mood swings...hate, love, fear, despair. jumping from one to the other sometimes in mere seconds. I do love my wife but how can i forgive? how can i forget? we read online about emotional affairs both together and separately.we share our findings and talk. she is transparent, she answers all questions without hesitation and without getting frustrated with my process. we find out not only what an emotional affair is but that there was physical contact (kissing) so it was a physical affair too even tho there was no sex. we find the affair was textbook to every description we find, both what had happened and what we are going thru now.

I've read alot of material since then, everything on husband help haven concerning emotional affairs. I am still reading everything i can find. we both want to survive this and we are both willing to do what it takes. her for her emotional affair and both of us to fix our relationship issues together like we should have done before the affair. i found out on Monday the 3rd, it is now friday the 7th and we and i know we have a long way to go to rebuild trust but we are confident and committed that we are on the right path and to stay on that path. i still have triggers (how can i sit in the same truck where they kissed?), mood swings, mind movies (so, so much worse than reality), everything that goes with being a betrayed spouse. on Monday and Tuesday i couldn't even comprehend a pathway to forgiveness. today i can envision that. i haven't yet done so, it's way to soon for that but understandng is coming. there is hope. forgetting is an issue i am still a little hazy on. those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it. i don't think either of us will ever forget, or that we even should. but i do think we can get to a point where there is forgiveness and there will be no need to open old wounds on a regular basis. Trust is something i will struggle with for a long time. How can i trust her again? How can i trust that she had disclosed everything? If i find out new information about the same affair that she didn't disclose how will that affect me and us? This and so many more things we need to work thru. Its going to be harder than anything we've ever done, but it's worth it.

But, know this:
I love my wife, unconditionally. I think I'll keep her.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

I wish I could say congrats, you're on the right track but (a) the fact that she trickle-truth's you and (b) too many people on here say the same thing (it never got physical/no sex) and find out differently doesn't make me optimistic for you.

Maybe you should talk to the guy, tell him your wife confessed and ask for his side of the story.

Trust, but verify.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

You found out Monday? As in 4 days ago? Give it time. The real hurt and anger will set in……


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## LilDoc (Apr 6, 2017)

I tried to get more information but he blocked me on Facebook and messenger and I have no other way to contact him. Also, while I am grateful that he told me, I question his motives. He obviously did it to hurt her, not help me, he is feeling bitter that she cut him off. How can I trust anything he says without proof? I'm also concerned what else he might do in an effort to hurt her, 

Yes only 4 days ago. I'm well aware that there is a long road ahead. That's why it's title a success story so far.


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## LilDoc (Apr 6, 2017)

I did forget to mention there has been some serious hysterical bonding. And no there is no trust yet. I've told her many times that I accept that she told me everything but don't fully believe that yet and explained why I had a hard time believing there was no further physical actions. I'm there guys. It's only been 4 days so if you really have experienced this you probably know my mindset at this point. I am steadfastly avoiding false recovery.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Physical interaction means sex, and if she's telling you otherwise, she's lying.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

Have you been through it before? If not, you have no idea what you’re in for. I’m 3.5 months out from discovery of my husbands MOST RECENT betrayal. There have been several. He’s 1.5 years out from the discovery of the whole truth of what happened with mine, almost 4 years out from the initial discovery that I did SOMETHING just unclear what all I did. Neither of us is “over” it. Not even CLOSE to trust. Not even thinking about it. He’s going to play cards tonight, I’m skeptical. I’m going with my best friend early tomorrow morning to help her pick out a dress for a fancy dinner she’s going to (my BFF is a tomboy, doesn’t wear dresses, but has to for this). He’s skeptical that’s where I’m going. He can’t tell me he loves me. I don’t WANT to tell him I love him. There isn’t a day that goes by that I don’t think about what he did. Hysterical bonding wore off and now if he doesn’t want it every day I wonder if he’s getting it somewhere else. I still cry almost every day and I want his AP to get hit by a bus. The hatred and disgust I feel towards her is unreal. So deep it scares me. 

Please be assured. You DON’T have the full story. And when more comes out, you’ll be back to square one, even worse than before.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Sorry lildoc, but this was a full physical affair with sex. Want to know for sure? Tell her to get in the truck, when she asks where are you going, tell her you'll see. As you are driving, tell her you need to know exactly what you are forgiving her for. Tell her you think there is much more to the story, and you are taking her to take a poly. If she refuses, you simply say that your attorney will file the papers you filled out tomorrow. If she confesses, tell her she will take a poly to verify what her confession. 

Next tell her to take you to OM's house, don't let her fool you, she knows where he lives and the shortest route to get there. Drive there and tell her that her story better match his. Then you can meet OM face to face, and then say, here she's yours, you won the lottery today.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

Would a guy really get so worked up over a woman he didn't have sex with? 
Would a guy who comes across as somewhat aggressive have an affair with a woman over a year and a half without sex?
He's comfortable posting inappropriate comments on the page of a married woman who's only allowed him to kiss her?
His comment on March 6th about being interested in what she has to say suggests he knows she would probably lie about the extent. 

I vote she's still lying.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Start dating.

Take pictures and post them to Facebook.


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## LilDoc (Apr 6, 2017)

I believe that he did give her something she felt she was missing and he probably used her vulnerability to try and get her into a physical relationship. I do believe that she cut him off before it went that far. The real life meetings only lasted 6 months not 1.5 years. 

Would a guy get worked up if he hadn't had sex? Absolutely if he thought he was in love. He was manipulating her into a physical relationship using her vulnerability and she let him. All on her no doubt but it doesn't mean she had sex with him. She admitted she knew it was wrong and tried to get out but he made sly comments like you'll be sorry so she was afraid of being revealed, searching for a way out without hurting me that obviously didn't exist. 

I sound like I'm defending her actions, I am not. She did have an emotional affair, she did kiss him and tell him she loved him. She did let him into her life in a role that was mine to fill. All those things are devastating and yes, if I found out she left something out after swearing she didn't I will run the other way because there will be no trust recovery at that point. We had a very strong marriage prior to our drifting apart and we know each other very well and this is not a serial case. Its been 4 days and I/we are still dealing with this and will be for years to come. I've decided my marriage is worth following the recovery path. I know it is going to take a long time if ever to trust her again. To forgive her. Never to forget. I never said this is going to be easy. So far this forum has been an extreme let down as it appears everyone is so jaded they assume everyone is a serial wayward and sex addict.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

You are deeply hurt and desperately want to relieve the hurt and you will probably compromise because you need relief. Your wife has betrayed you and you will have some permanent damage even if you have a successful reconciliation.

If you think that you need more information and she said that she will do anything for you; have her take a polly. Frankly, you already have enough information to know that she betrayed you, rejected you and replaced you with the OM. Even if you find out that she did not have sex with him, you can bet that she dreamed and fantasied about it.

Do not expect to have a great marriage but work towards a good marriage with limited damage in the areas of trust and admiration. Make sure that you depend on yourself to build yourself back up as she has proven that she does not have your best interest at heart. *Become as self-sufficient as possible!*


I am not trying to discourage you from reconciling but you will have to face the truths as I have described above sometime in the future


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## LilDoc (Apr 6, 2017)

ConanHub said:


> Start dating.
> 
> Take pictures and post them to Facebook.


What kind of advise is this? I think Ive come to the wrong place.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

An adult woman that admits to being in love with a guy and kissing him, is doing far more than that. Think about it this way...single women on the dating scene will often sleep with a guy they just met, often within the first few dates while they are just getting to know him. So you can imagine that if she feels like she in love with him it's logical that she's having porn star sex with him, assuming there is any private time that they are together. 

My ex-wife had an emotional/physical affair. When I confronted her she lied to my face, swore up and down they never had sex, and that I was crazy for thinking it. However, while she was saying that I had a voice-activated recorder in my possession that had an audio of her having sex with him. It is NORMAL for a wayward to try to cover up to minimize the damage, especially if they are finding out that it is working to appease their trusting spouse. She's playing you and you are buying it hook, line, and sinker. 

My suggestion is for you to take your wife's phone (without asking her) and text him directly, pretending to be your wife. Tell him that LilDoc is suspicious and doesn't believe that it's only an emotional affair and that they never had sex. Then see what his response is.

I sincerely hope I'm wrong. But that would be beating the odds.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

What exactly is it that you've been 'successful' at? Burying your head in the sand? You haven't even STARTED the process yet, much less been successful at it. If you want true R, I suggest you start doing some reading here on TAM - maybe start here

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...e-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html#post430739



LilDoc said:


> I love my wife, unconditionally. I think I'll keep her.


Allrighty then.

Look, I am sorry for seeming so skeptical, but................I AM, VERY skeptical. You make it sound like everything is sunshine and roses a week out. That is totally unrealistic and NOT sustainable, unless you do the ostrich thing.

You need an STD test and so does she. They met up THAT MANY times and you REALLY think he kept coming back for more..........nothing??? Do you REALLY believe that??


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

LilDoc said:


> But, know this:
> I love my wife, unconditionally. I think I'll keep her.


You don't have to believe any of us who tell you that your wife is severely minimizing what happened, including denying that they had sex. However, for your own sake, I hope you open your mind to this possibility and keep digging for the truth. *I am certain that almost no man would be willing to maintain a relationship with a married woman for several months and be satisfied with only kissing and shopping together. * I know that you desperately want to believe that, but your wife's story is not very original. 

I'm sorry you're going through this. 

ps. Yes, we know you love your wife. Deciding to keep her four days after the revelation and while she is lying to you shows that you need to value yourself more.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

I am sorry sir, but in my experience and that of many others, if they met up, there is a great likelihood that intercourse took place. In order for you to feel safe again, you will need to explain to your wife the following: Because this has trickled out, it is unfortunate, but your credibility is suspect in these circumstances, remember; you have already asked for a separation, and we were on the verge. On the basis of what I have just said, I will want you to take a polygraph test. The results of that test will determine the state of our reconciliation.

She has trickle truthed you thus far, you will not feel safe until you have full disclosure. Many spouses consider intercourse to be a deal-breaker. Spouses who are in the fog, believe that they are going to split anyhow, so intercourse is on the table. Then when they are shocked out of the fog, they are literally cornered; they believe that if they admit to intercourse, the offended spouse will want a divorce.

You are four days into this, and that is hardly the time to make decisions.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

Bananapeel said:


> My suggestion is for you to take your wife's phone (without asking her) and text him directly, pretending to be your wife. Tell him that LilDoc is suspicious and doesn't believe that it's only an emotional affair and that they never had sex. Then see what his response is.


That's how I found out many details about my then fiance.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

LilDoc said:


> We had a very strong marriage prior to our drifting apart and we know each other very well and this is not a serial case. Its been 4 days and I/we are still dealing with this and will be for years to come. I've decided my marriage is worth following the recovery path.


God, I wish I had a nickel for every time I've read this over the years.



LilDoc said:


> So far this forum has been an extreme let down as it appears everyone is so jaded they assume everyone is a serial wayward and sex addict.


 We don't assume it, we know it (not the addict part but the serial part). You may not want to hear it, but it's the truth. FYI I am with my husband today after he cheated.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

LilDoc said:


> I believe that he did give her something she felt she was missing and he probably used her vulnerability to try and get her into a physical relationship. I do believe that she cut him off before it went that far. The real life meetings only lasted 6 months not 1.5 years.
> 
> Would a guy get worked up if he hadn't had sex? Absolutely if he thought he was in love. He was manipulating her into a physical relationship using her vulnerability and she let him. All on her no doubt but it doesn't mean she had sex with him. She admitted she knew it was wrong and tried to get out but he made sly comments like you'll be sorry so she was afraid of being revealed, searching for a way out without hurting me that obviously didn't exist.
> 
> I sound like I'm defending her actions, I am not. She did have an emotional affair, she did kiss him and tell him she loved him. She did let him into her life in a role that was mine to fill. All those things are devastating and yes, if I found out she left something out after swearing she didn't I will run the other way because there will be no trust recovery at that point. We had a very strong marriage prior to our drifting apart and we know each other very well and this is not a serial case. Its been 4 days and I/we are still dealing with this and will be for years to come. I've decided my marriage is worth following the recovery path. I know it is going to take a long time if ever to trust her again. To forgive her. Never to forget. I never said this is going to be easy. So far this forum has been an extreme let down as it appears everyone is so jaded they assume everyone is a serial wayward and sex addict.


(sigh) there goes another one...


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

Only 4 days? Sorry sir but this is a classical trickle truth even. My W swore on her kids life that there was no sex, only to having to admit to it 4 days later because I gained hard proof by then
Sorry but she is not giving you the whole story, this is textbook behavior for a Cheater....would sex be a deal breaker for you?

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

CantBelieveThis said:


> Only 4 days? Sorry sir but this is a classical trickle truth even. My W swore on her kids life that there was no sex, only to having to admit to it 4 days later because I gained hard proof by then
> Sorry but she is not giving you the whole story, this is textbook behavior for a Cheater....would sex be a deal breaker for you?


Obviously, you're just as jaded as all the rest of us and you think (like we all do) that everyone is a sex addict!


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

Steve1000 said:


> Obviously, you're just as jaded as all the rest of us and you think (like we all do) that everyone is a sex addict!


I don't even think anyone said anything about the OP's wife being a sex addict or serial cheater to begin with. 

OP I cheated on my ex. Guess what I did when he asked the first time? Minimized my ass off!


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## LilDoc (Apr 6, 2017)

I know my wife better than any of you. I'm sorry I came here. The website that led me here was much more helpful. I am not burying my head in the sand and I admit it is too early to call it a success story, that is why it said *so far*. I am reading and we are doing all of the things every.single.site says to do in recovering from an emotional affair. I know we're only in the onset of this thing and that we have a long road ahead. This site is full of negative jaded people, I can see why people who come here for help have such a low success rate at reconciliation. I'm done posting here. You all latch onto one thing and preach like you know, how many possible successes did you all destroy just by being so negative when you really know very little about *my* situation. I'm not blindly believing, I'm trying to move forward. We're on the right path and every one of you so far seem hell bent on knocking us off that path rather than being constructive. I should have known better than to put *any* faith in an internet forum. I got a lot of help from husband help haven and when he linked this forum I thought maybe it was actually constructive. 

Utterly worthless. Should change the name of this site to talkaboutdivorce.com


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

OP no one is trying to be mean to you.

I am a betrayer and I’ve been betrayed. I can tell you that I lied to my husband for 2 YEARS before I fully came clean. And guess what I told him? That I just kissed the guy. I didn’t have a long affair. I had what amounts to a one night stand. No intercourse, oral performed by me that I didn’t even complete. And I STILL lied to him for 2 years! Your wife is only admitting to kissing because it doesn’t sound “as bad”. She most likely thinks that you’ll think a kiss was just a mistake. An oops. It takes a lot more calculation and planning to have intercourse – which means that the betrayal goes even further than you thought. If she can only admit to and get away with the minimal, then chances are, you won’t leave her. If she admits to it all, well, then her marriage would be destroyed and you would leave. It’s classic cheater. I DID IT! My husband has done it! 

EVERY CHEATER FOLLOWS THE SAME SCRIPT! Your wife is not a delicate flower that is more special than any other cheater. You know the tip of the iceberg. Please believe me.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

I’m still with my husband. We both betrayed the other. I’m not going to divorce him at this point. I want nothing more than for my marriage to work out. But that doesn’t mean that he didn’t do things and that his cheater script doesn’t follow the same as everyone elses. You’re hearing FACTS and you’d be well served to stick around while this all plays out.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

LilDoc said:


> I know my wife better than any of you. I'm sorry I came here. The website that led me here was much more helpful. I am not burying my head in the sand and I admit it is too early to call it a success story, that is why it said *so far*. I am reading and we are doing all of the things every.single.site says to do in recovering from an emotional affair. I know we're only in the onset of this thing and that we have a long road ahead. This site is full of negative jaded people, I can see why people who come here for help have such a low success rate at reconciliation. I'm done posting here. You all latch onto one thing and preach like you know, how many possible successes did you all destroy just by being so negative when you really know very little about *my* situation. I'm not blindly believing, I'm trying to move forward. We're on the right path and every one of you so far seem hell bent on knocking us off that path rather than being constructive. I should have known better than to put *any* faith in an internet forum. I got a lot of help from husband help haven and when he linked this forum I thought maybe it was actually constructive.
> 
> Utterly worthless. Should change the name of this site to talkaboutdivorce.com


No one has said anything about divorce either...


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

LilDoc said:


> I can see why people who come here for help have such a low success rate at reconciliation.


'Reconciliation' and 'staying married' are two completely different things. No matter what they tell you on 'other' sites, their rates of true, happy reconciliation I can GUARANTEE are lower than they are here.


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## Miss Independent (Mar 24, 2014)

.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

LilDoc said:


> I've told her many times that I accept that she told me everything but don't fully believe that yet and explained why I had a hard time believing there was no further physical actions. I'm there guys. It's only been 4 days so if you really have experienced this you probably know my mindset at this point. I am steadfastly avoiding false recovery.


 A major study showed that in only 7% of the cases of physical cheating does the cheating spouse every admit to a physical affair even when presented with proof. The minute that a cheater decides to cheat and hide it from their spouse, is the minute that lying to their spouse about it becomes the norm. Your wife lied to you for 1 1/2 years about this other man. You simply asking her what she did today, required her to lie to you so as to leave out the other man (OM). She learned from you everything that you knew, and then spun the new lie around it. It had to include enough bad things for it to be believable, but not anywhere near enough for you not to just rug sweep and move on. 

Your wife and OM are not in high school they are adults. To assume that either of them as adults, that have for years experienced regular sex with a partner, would be in love and date for 1 1/2 years (yes what they did was dating), and be satisfied with just exchanging kisses and I love yous is not being rational. You being upset about me telling you this truth is you shooting the messenger. Please investigate as you will learn that they did more than just kiss. You will not be the first or the last guy to get mad at us for speaking the obvious truth. Should you decide to leave us, please remember to come back here after you learn more. Remember that you and your wife are both responsible for issues in your marriage, but the cheater is always 100% responsible for their cheating. As a cheater she will try to tell you otherwise; the longer that you buy into this, the longer it will take to resolve this. I am sorry that you are here. Be well and good luck to you.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

LilDoc said:


> What kind of advise is this? I think Ive come to the wrong place.


It is called free advice and you will receive many kinds on this forum.

I am a very hard man when it comes to bull**** like your wayward wife has pulled.

I would date and then have discussions with her about how she liked my half of the open marriage she chose to start without telling me.

If she got it and was fully remorseful, I would spank her bratty ass and start some real reconciliation work.

I would also have a "conversation" with the moron that thought it funny to treat my marriage and family with contempt.

He might well move cross country by the time I was done with my "conversation".

My advice is good for someone like me or of a similar bent or someone who needs to be a little more like me.

If it isn't for you, don't use it.

Peace.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

LilDoc said:


> I got a lot of help from husband help haven and when he linked this forum I thought maybe it was actually constructive.


 You "got a lot of help from husband help haven", and there is a reason that he sent you to this site.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

LilDoc,

Just ask your WW to write out a timeline for her affair have her put it in black and white, tell her to put in everything. Tell her you can forgive whatever it is she did but you cannot forgive lying, even lying by omission. Allow her to write it out without you there to avoid the embarrassment. 

Also she needs to tell you everyone who knew about, concealed or helped her carry out the affair, they need to be gone from you and your WWs life. 

Once you have that schedule a polygraph, and follow through with it.

Normally it takes two to five years to recover from an affair, and this only starts after you have heard the last detail, every time you find out something new. you reset your clock to zero.

Tamat


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

LilDoc said:


> I know my wife better than any of you. I'm sorry I came here. The website that led me here was much more helpful. I am not burying my head in the sand and I admit it is too early to call it a success story, that is why it said *so far*. I am reading and we are doing all of the things every.single.site says to do in recovering from an emotional affair. I know we're only in the onset of this thing and that we have a long road ahead. This site is full of negative jaded people, I can see why people who come here for help have such a low success rate at reconciliation. I'm done posting here. You all latch onto one thing and preach like you know, how many possible successes did you all destroy just by being so negative when you really know very little about *my* situation. I'm not blindly believing, I'm trying to move forward. We're on the right path and every one of you so far seem hell bent on knocking us off that path rather than being constructive. I should have known better than to put *any* faith in an internet forum. I got a lot of help from husband help haven and when he linked this forum I thought maybe it was actually constructive.
> 
> Utterly worthless. Should change the name of this site to talkaboutdivorce.com


Ok.

Your wife cheated on you, not us.

Stop taking your pathetic and misplaced vitriol out on us.

I have helped save many marriages in real life by fearless confrontation and hard work.

Make no mistake. Your wife cuckolded you and your shrill response to the veterans of this site, many of whom have reconciled successfully and in a number of ways, is not appreciated.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

LilDoc said:


> I know my wife better than any of you. I'm sorry I came here. The website that led me here was much more helpful. I am not burying my head in the sand and I admit it is too early to call it a success story, that is why it said *so far*. I am reading and we are doing all of the things every.single.site says to do in recovering from an emotional affair. I know we're only in the onset of this thing and that we have a long road ahead. This site is full of negative jaded people, I can see why people who come here for help have such a low success rate at reconciliation. I'm done posting here. You all latch onto one thing and preach like you know, how many possible successes did you all destroy just by being so negative when you really know very little about *my* situation. I'm not blindly believing, I'm trying to move forward. We're on the right path and every one of you so far seem hell bent on knocking us off that path rather than being constructive. I should have known better than to put *any* faith in an internet forum. I got a lot of help from husband help haven and when he linked this forum I thought maybe it was actually constructive.
> 
> Utterly worthless. Should change the name of this site to talkaboutdivorce.com


I say this to you just as compassionately as I possibly can...

She's lying.

I'm not calling your wife a *****, or you an idiot, or any of that.

What I AM doing is attempting to relate this nearly universal truth to you...

Emotional affair + physical proximity to AP = _physical_ affair

I'm so sorry that you're going through this, but it's going to be so much more difficult for you -- and so much more prolonged -- if you continue to do it with blinders on.

Your wife is lying to you.

She had sex with OM.

She's no more "unique" or "special" than any other wayward.

You might know her better than me, or anyone else here, but you're still wrong about her.

You're only 4 days in. You're still awash in a sea of grief, despair, fear, pain, and, unfortunately, trickle-truth.

Every wayward lies, at least in the beginning.

Strap in, because the waters are going to get rougher before they get better.

Sorry. 

ETA: It's fine if you want to reconcile, but do it armed with the truth.


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## rzmpf (Mar 11, 2016)

My question would be, what did you expect to hear?

You tell your story, a story of success???? After 4 days? If you really thought it was a success, why post here? Did you expect a few taps on your shoulder for doing great? My guess would be that the title alone was seen as an invitation to get the 2x4s out. There can't be any success after 4 days of trying to reconcile (well she apparently did not meet OM so....small success, some did not even manage to achieve that).

What you saw as drifting apart was a communist rally of red flags and if you had come here at that point in time, especially after the "I don't love you anymore" speech, people here would have told you that she probably had an affair. And I bet you would have said that people here don't know your W and how dare they think that etc. 

Surprise, surprise, there was an affair. Probability was just too high regarding the circumstances. People here have read and heard this similar stories way too often. 

Kudos to you, after some time you did the steps people would have told you to make by yourself. Separating finances, moving out, showing consequences etc even without you knowing that there was an affair.

Apparently the realization that she would lose you has not stopped her from meeting OM.

Regarding the veracity of your wife's story, it is possible that she tells you the truth. Based on experience it's unlikely that there was no sexual contact other than kissing. Think about it, people minimize stuff all the time, be it to gain an advantage or to lessen the blow to somebody, in every part of our lives. Adults act different than teenagers, opportunities were there etc. It's just a matter of probabilities, like in a lottery. It's not impossible to win the jackpot, it's just unlikely.

The unusual thing in your story is that OM contacted you. That could hint to your W ending or stalling the affair and he trying to break you up by contacting you. Either as revenge or as last ditch effort to free her from marriage and make her available for him. Him contacting you in the beginning of March and she supposedly having her last contact in February also seem to match up and support this possible line of events.

So back to my initial question. What do you want here? We all don't know your W. We don't know you. We give opinions and advice based on our own experiences and experiences of others we saw, read or heard about. You knew that beforehand. Most here see no reason to keep a marriage if you are the only one maintaining it and the other spouse is busy tearing it down and some also think it's a waste of your time on this planet to try to fix a M after an affair regarding the odds. Too many BS that stayed regret their decision because R did not work out the way they wanted.

You were already willing to give up your marriage or at least separate when you didn't know your W professed her love to someone else. What changed to the better instead of just the worse (you now know that your W is capable of at least emotionally cheating to you and lying about meeting other men)? How is she working on your M since December 2016? Why did she have contact with OM until Feb 2017 if she wanted your M to work and she wants only you? What is she doing these last 4 days that convince you that she is remorseful when you say yourself that you lost your trust in her and don't believe her story? And even more important what did SHE tell you what changed her mind? Are you really just her best friend? How did she fall out of love for you, fall into love with OM and is now back loving you? Or is she still not loving you? Why didn't she tell the truth from the beginning? Why lie about/omitt the affair if she didn't love you but loved OM? Her Story and her behaviour do not match up in a way that support her telling the whole truth. Rather sounds like cake eating, Plan B etc.

Unless you want to write an online diary and no advice, you have to tell more about what's happening now, people here can only work with what they know. And even if you tell everything many will tell you to not believe her, especially because it's just 4 days and your emotions are just all over the place. Your opinion may change in a couple of weeks from now.

Regarding your questions about how to trust her, regaining trust and what to do in case of TT, well....if you don't trust you have to verify as much as you can. Transparency in all things, people that helped or knew have to go. Only acting trustworthy can show you that she is. Words are just words. Trust is earned not given. Don't expect it to be ever the same again. 

If she trickletruthed you (and that is just highly probable, be it for sparing you pain or saving her butt), well it's basically DDay all over again. TT would also show you that she is still capable of lying to you and still not trustworthy, no matter her efforts. Also the triggers and mind movies may not go away for a long time. Another reason many think it's not worth it. But in the end it's your life and you have to decide what and who is worth spending time with.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

LilDoc said:


> I know my wife better than any of you. I'm sorry I came here. The website that led me here was much more helpful. I am not burying my head in the sand and I admit it is too early to call it a success story, that is why it said *so far*. I am reading and we are doing all of the things every.single.site says to do in recovering from an emotional affair. I know we're only in the onset of this thing and that we have a long road ahead. This site is full of negative jaded people, I can see why people who come here for help have such a low success rate at reconciliation. I'm done posting here. You all latch onto one thing and preach like you know, how many possible successes did you all destroy just by being so negative when you really know very little about *my* situation. I'm not blindly believing, I'm trying to move forward. We're on the right path and every one of you so far seem hell bent on knocking us off that path rather than being constructive. I should have known better than to put *any* faith in an internet forum. I got a lot of help from husband help haven and when he linked this forum I thought maybe it was actually constructive.
> 
> Utterly worthless. Should change the name of this site to talkaboutdivorce.com


Wow. Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

I guess we're 'worthless' because we refused to further *delude* you and tell you what you want to hear. It's ridiculous and childish to claim that we're hell bent on 'knocking you off your path' as though any of us have a personal stake in_ your_ marriage. We don't even know who you are and your decisions don't affect anyone's life here. But you asked for advice and you got it from people who have had YEARS of experience dealing with infidelity and can see through a cheater from a country mile. You're all new to this and can't even see how you're being lied to, so we understand your inability to hear the truth from us.

We've heard your story 1,000s of times. MANY here have lived it. Your story is NOT unique and SHE'S not unique. Not in ANY way.

You want so badly to believe all her lies. *We get it.* You're not the first one and won't be the last one who eventually found out they were horrifically lied to on D-Day. You'll have to find out for yourself. You might want to start by talking to lover boy if she hasn't already gotten to him yet and begged him to lie to you for her. Cheaters are famous for doing that - begging their affair partners to lie for them after it all hits the fan. So by now, she's probably already gotten to him.

Do yourself a favor and get STD tested. Sounds as though her 'friend' was probably playing the field when he wasn't going on innocent dates with her to Bible Study and then to the malt shop where they'd get 2 straws and share a shake. :awink:

You will eventually learn the truth. Maybe months or years from now when you least expect it. But it will eventually come out. It usually does.


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

Please come back once she admits to the sex. This is the issue that will be haunting you over the coming months, so you'll need to get closure and really find out at some point. Do not sweep this under the rug, or it will stay with you like a dark cloud forever. 

When you come back, there will be some gentle "I told you so" comments, but the community here will be genuinely helpful in advising you on what is necessary for proper, lasting reconciliation, if that's still possible.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

*First LilDoc congratulations on being brave and trying to fix your marriage.* Good for you. 

Just because people tell you things you don't want to hear, don't assume that are being mean to you. Consider this as a fact-finding expedition where you get to choose those things that fit your situation and ignore those that don't.

My first piece of advice is for you and your wife to get some professional marriage counseling help. Do that right away. You need a professional to help the two of you sort things out.

My second piece of advice is to tell you wife that you are getting STD/STI tested. Even if you are sure that it was just an emotional affair that involved kissing only, you need to think big picture. What do I mean big picture? You have a small child that needs healthy parents to take care of him/her. No matter how sure you feel you are about your wife, you should protect your child. Tell that to your wife and ask that she also get tested. Her response may tell you a lot.

Good luck to you, I wish you the best and may you and your wife rebuild your marriage.



LilDoc said:


> I believe that he did give her something she felt she was missing and he probably used her vulnerability to try and get her into a physical relationship. I do believe that she cut him off before it went that far. The real life meetings only lasted 6 months not 1.5 years.
> 
> Would a guy get worked up if he hadn't had sex? Absolutely if he thought he was in love. He was manipulating her into a physical relationship using her vulnerability and she let him. ....
> 
> ...





LilDoc said:


> I know my wife better than any of you. I'm sorry I came here. The website that led me here was much more helpful. I am not burying my head in the sand and I admit it is too early to call it a success story, that is why it said *so far*.
> 
> ....This site is full of negative jaded people, I can see why people who come here for help have such a low success rate at reconciliation. I'm done posting here. You all latch onto one thing and preach like you know, how many possible successes did you all destroy just by being so negative when you really know very little about *my* situation.
> 
> ...


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

LilDoc said:


> I believe that he did give her something she felt she was missing and he probably used her vulnerability to try and get her into a physical relationship. I do believe that she cut him off before it went that far. The real life meetings only lasted 6 months not 1.5 years.
> 
> Would a guy get worked up if he hadn't had sex? Absolutely if he thought he was in love. He was manipulating her into a physical relationship using her vulnerability and she let him. All on her no doubt but it doesn't mean she had sex with him. She admitted she knew it was wrong and tried to get out but he made sly comments like you'll be sorry so she was afraid of being revealed, searching for a way out without hurting me that obviously didn't exist.
> 
> I sound like I'm defending her actions, I am not. She did have an emotional affair, she did kiss him and tell him she loved him. She did let him into her life in a role that was mine to fill. All those things are devastating and yes, if I found out she left something out after swearing she didn't I will run the other way because there will be no trust recovery at that point. We had a very strong marriage prior to our drifting apart and we know each other very well and this is not a serial case. Its been 4 days and I/we are still dealing with this and will be for years to come. I've decided my marriage is worth following the recovery path. I know it is going to take a long time if ever to trust her again. To forgive her. Never to forget. I never said this is going to be easy. So far this forum has been an extreme let down as it appears everyone is so jaded they assume everyone is a serial wayward and sex addict.


Every betrayed spouse upfront wants to believe it's just an emotional affair. Because the truth is too hard to take. It's called denial. That's where you are.

Admitted kissing = full blown sexual affair. From what you've posted a lot of it. 

Wake up. Without the full truth Reconcilliation will be a false one. Running from the truth won't help you much.


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## italianjob (May 7, 2014)

Where did you ask for advice? You're flauting a "success story" that is blatantly non existent, and you were expecting hoorays for the way you've handled it, but, really, there is no reason.

If you want to believe that an adult woman (who wasn't affectionate to her husband, and, this is not clear, she didn't have sex with him) was regularly going out with another man and they never had sex, it's your problem, not mine, or ours...

If you want to call a "success story" your wife banging another man for two years, it depends on your definition of success...

You state you will keep her, so your decision is taken, what advice are you seeking.

No I'm not going to tell you the fairy tales you want to hear, not many will...


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Rugsweeping and being a doormat is harder work than you think sport.

If you ever wise up I'd suggest telling your wife a polygraph will clear everything up.


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## Youngwife1000 (Mar 26, 2017)

LilDoc said:


> I believe that he did give her something she felt she was missing and he probably used her vulnerability to try and get her into a physical relationship. I do believe that she cut him off before it went that far. The real life meetings only lasted 6 months not 1.5 years.
> 
> Would a guy get worked up if he hadn't had sex? Absolutely if he thought he was in love. He was manipulating her into a physical relationship using her vulnerability and she let him. All on her no doubt but it doesn't mean she had sex with him. She admitted she knew it was wrong and tried to get out but he made sly comments like you'll be sorry so she was afraid of being revealed, searching for a way out without hurting me that obviously didn't exist.
> 
> I sound like I'm defending her actions, I am not. She did have an emotional affair, she did kiss him and tell him she loved him. She did let him into her life in a role that was mine to fill. All those things are devastating and yes, if I found out she left something out after swearing she didn't I will run the other way because there will be no trust recovery at that point. We had a very strong marriage prior to our drifting apart and we know each other very well and this is not a serial case. Its been 4 days and I/we are still dealing with this and will be for years to come. I've decided my marriage is worth following the recovery path. I know it is going to take a long time if ever to trust her again. To forgive her. Never to forget. I never said this is going to be easy. So far this forum has been an extreme let down as it appears everyone is so jaded they assume everyone is a serial wayward and sex addict.


Hey, thank you for sharing your story so far, I myself am only in week 3 of finding out my husband several times betrayed me, a little different as it was for oralsex and with the opposite sex. I understand all your pain, the choice you have made to stay is your choice and you've owned that. That's is progression to date and you seem confident on we're you hope to end up. Although I'm still working on staying with my husband I'm actually everyday petrified of what waves of pain are going to hit me each day, what images are going to go around and around. The feeling of absolute worthlessness is soul crushing. You seem so much clear minded than I. Please don't be disappointed on here, yes there are many people full of hatred, unforgiveness and just really bad and not very encouraging advice. However there are others that have been on the journey a few years a head and full of support and understanding. I hope you can sift them out, I really do. I follow a thread a lady put together asking if it would be helpful for BS to have a support thread. I hope you can find it, there are a few of us helpful ones on there. 
On another not my husband completely watered down the truth of what he had been doing, I knew it so I made him do a polygraph 3 days before he came clean and told me everything, it was the most painful information I've ever had to hear. But then I could alter my questions around what he had said and he passed the ones I asked. Although painful I now know the truth, everything that did happen but also everything that didn't, have you considered this?
I wish you all the best in your journey x


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

LilDoc said:


> I know my wife better than any of you. I'm sorry I came here. The website that led me here was much more helpful. I am not burying my head in the sand and I admit it is too early to call it a success story, that is why it said *so far*. I am reading and we are doing all of the things every.single.site says to do in recovering from an emotional affair. I know we're only in the onset of this thing and that we have a long road ahead. This site is full of negative jaded people, I can see why people who come here for help have such a low success rate at reconciliation. I'm done posting here. You all latch onto one thing and preach like you know, how many possible successes did you all destroy just by being so negative when you really know very little about *my* situation. I'm not blindly believing, I'm trying to move forward. We're on the right path and every one of you so far seem hell bent on knocking us off that path rather than being constructive. I should have known better than to put *any* faith in an internet forum. I got a lot of help from husband help haven and when he linked this forum I thought maybe it was actually constructive.
> 
> Utterly worthless. Should change the name of this site to talkaboutdivorce.com





Perhaps this site was linked to you so that you don't rug sweep. Or because they at husband help haven know your wife is lying. Or that you are taking the word of a liar. Or that husband help haven wants you to have a successful reconciliation. Or that OM is just trying to get back at your wife because his life is now destroyed. Or maybe OM just thought to reach out to you because your wife cheated on OM. 

OP, maybe there is some truth to what we are trying to tell you, but I'll leave you with just a few questions. If you know your wife as well as you say, how did you not know she wasn't cheating? How come you found out through OM? I'm genuinely asking you, how did you not know your wife was dating OM, when you knew her so well??


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

drifting on said:


> Perhaps this site was linked to you so that you don't rug sweep. Or because they at husband help haven know your wife is lying. Or that you are taking the word of a liar. Or that husband help haven wants you to have a successful reconciliation. Or that OM is just trying to get back at your wife because his life is now destroyed. Or maybe OM just thought to reach out to you because your wife cheated on OM.
> 
> OP, maybe there is some truth to what we are trying to tell you, but I'll leave you with just a few questions. If you know your wife as well as you say, how did you not know she wasn't cheating? How come you found out through OM? I'm genuinely asking you, how did you not know your wife was dating OM, when you knew her so well??


This is a straight up bulls eye!

I think OP was possibly trying to direct some traffic to that other sight.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

There are none so blind...


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

He will be back.


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## Grapes (Oct 21, 2016)

Hopefully you come back. Your not hearing what you wanted to hear and it is difficult sometimes.

The message you are receiving here is to not make any decision yet. Be it R or D. You, admittedly, dont know the whole story.

Sex or not is all speculation and there are only 2 people who know for sure. The problem is you have to assume she lies when answers. Shes already done it with trickle truthing you. If you dont know the actual truth (outside of her words) you do not know what you are forgiving in the case of R.

One way to get the actual truth is to follow the advise of the poster that mentioned a poly graph. Not so much for the poly itself but for the WW reaction. Anything other then an astounding "YES - id love to to prove to you my sweet husband that nothing happend" is guilt. Outright refusal is admittance. 

People here, though harsh with words, are looking out for your best interest which right now is to get the truth before you make a decision.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

LIL Doc,

DO not rugsweep this...if you do come back most of us are here to help, ask her if she is willing to take a polygraph to validate her claims? i suspect there is more to the story and you will have to deal with it one way or another...i get you love your wife...but she did not love you for a some time so now is the time to find out. you can stay away from here but you can't stay away from your problem...good luck


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

OP

First, you have to realize this: your story is not unique. Neither is your wife.

There are many threads here similar to yours. Too many.

In these others the WW will admit to what your W did when caught : kissing, spending time with OM, etc.

Do you watch police shows? The suspect sometimes pleads guilty to a lesser charge ( manslaughter vs homicide ) because the penalty is less.

Your W was caught so she admitted guilt to a lesser 'crime'. We've seen this before. The H is still very upset but somewhat relieved to know the truth. But, it's not the truth.

Axioms of TAM : If she says they kissed, they had sex. If it was only three times, it was twenty. Oral, of course. No protection. Ad nauseam.

And, I think you know this in your gut.


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