# Is this enough proof?



## PatienceOut (Sep 21, 2018)

Is this proof?

So this is a short snippet of a much longer history, and I apologize in advance for the scattered-ness. To start off my husband and i have been married 18 years, together for 21. We have 5 kids, our youngest was born just last year. I consider my husband to be my best friend, I used to think he felt the same but i don’t think that is the case any longer.

So, last October I found out my husband was having an affair with a 21 year old. Only three year older than our child! I didn't handle confronting him about it well and it ended up going really poorly for me. 
We said we were going to work on our marriage and we have been trudging along ever since. He has apologized but also makes a lot of justifications for his behavior. 

So time goes by, I watch as this girl (who is, according to him, "just friends") becomes friends with my husbands friends online and in real life. She has insidiously inserted herself into my husbands life completely. She hangs out with his friends, some of them are people I've never even met in real life. She is more involved in my husbands social life than I am. 

And no matter how many times I tell him how much I have a problem with him continuing to talk to this woman( and i’d guess they talk throughout the day every day) he tells me he won’t be policed and that me asking him to not be friends with someone is abusive. 

Anyhow he spends a large chunk of time on Facebook (i.e. all damn day), and he recently decided to block me from seeing what he posts. I barely get on in the first place, but when i did i would always see her all over his page. Commenting on all his posts and his friends posts. To me it looks like a little high school clique that I have been left out from. When i point that out to him, tell him i am hurt by this he says again that i am being controlling and abusive and thats when he blocks me.

So this brings me to my current concern. I was able to look at both of their Facebook pages through a friend and see some really questionable exchanges between them. One where she posts she is sick and he comments that it is really a bummer that “she is on her period so she also isn’t getting any ****.” Why would he know that she is on her period? She didn’t mention that in the post. Also, it seems pretty obvious that the **** she is not getting right then is him, right? 
That was 5 days ago. 

Another post a week ago where she talks about his genitals being “strong and yummy”. 

Then there was a post 2 days ago where she said something about if your boyfriend doesn’t set this picture as his main image then the girlfriend gets a mani/pedi from the boyfriend. My husband responds that he wins. They then go on to talk about having a date night soon and her asking him if he’s coming over that night so she can give him rubs. 
That’s proof right?!?!?? Like there is no way this can be misconstrued at all as anything else but what it is? 
Because that same day I asked him when the last time he had sex with her was, he still maintains that it was last November yet there is all this foolishness going on on their Facebook pages. I can not even imagine what is going on in complete privacy. 

She also had a post last week talking about seeing random pictures of people and “thinking its your SO”, which she then posts a picture of my husband and tags him, with her mood saying she is “feeling in love’. SO means significant other right? Then in the comments of it says something about being happy she is “hitting that”. 
And some of our mutual friends liked her posts. Which means they all know and I’m the butt of some mutual joke. Apparently. 

I have been saying for weeks now that I can feel something is going on so I bring her up to him and he just laughs at me and tells me that all of that is so long ago and she is completely over him.

I think all of this is enough to show that he is for sure still having an affair. He is phenomenally good at manipulating and turning things around on me and making me feel like Im being paranoid. 

I want to know when it started up again, or if (most likely) it never stopped. 

I just am unsure how to confront him with this and not be told that its all a joke or that i am misunderstanding. Should I try to get more definitive proof? He never lets go of his phone and I can’t figure out his computer password at all. 
I gave him many opportunities to tell me the truth. He told me many times that there is nothing going on and that I am being abusive by continually thinking that he is. 

He has been blatantly lying to my face and I just want him to be honest. Do you think all of this will get him to fess up or just make more excuses?


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## faithfulman (Jun 4, 2018)

Holy ****!

Yes, it's enough proof!

Please tell me you have screenshots from the recent Facebook exchanges, and some sort of proof or admission about his "previous" affair with this girl.

Then go to a lawyer and serve him with divorce papers. 

He doesn't respect you and he doesn't give a **** how you feel. 

This man does not love you. 

Please leave him.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Rule number one after an affair is that you must cut off all contacts with the affair partner. You do not ever get to keep an affair partner as friend. Never ever. No sane person would say otherwise. After you catch a spouse in an affair, they must earn the opportunity to be given a second chance. Your mistake was forgiving too fast without making him promise to end all contact with the affair partner.

It is not too late to demand this. First contact an attorney, find out your rights, and begin filling out the paperwork, without spending too much money. Then tell your husband that as long as he continues seeing his affair partner, you cannot stay in the marriage. Then tell him that you have contacted an attorney and will moving forward with divorce. You must mean this when you say it and be prepared to divorce. You must be willing to end the marriage to have any chance at having a marriage worth saving. If he gives the same bull about his nonsense right to keep her as a friend and does not promise to immediately end all contact with his affair partner, tell him that you will proceed to filing, and do so. Then without telling him in advance, contact friends and family and tell them about the affair and who it is. None will think it OK for her to be friends with your husband if she had an affair with him. Tell everyone that if they want to continue contact with your husband that is up to them, but ask them to cut off all contact with her no excuses.

You have one shot at this, so be strong.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

You say that your husband is on Facebook all day, does he have a job?

How did his meet this home wrecker?

Did you get copies of the facebook posts and messages you found? If not, start getting copies even if you have to use your cell phone to take pictures of them.

I think what you have is pretty good proof that he's having an affair with this girl. He's doing what a lot of cheaters do... lying to your face. Do you know how you can tell when a cheater is lying? Their lips are moving.

There are ways to get more proof of an affair... such as hiring a PI, using a VAR (voice activated recording), and other ways. But the very fact that he's still in communicates with her and sees her is enough proof. He should have ended all contact with her when he supposidly broke off the affair months ago.

He told you that you cannot tell him who to hang out with? Technically that's right. But you also have the right to decide what you will do. A good answer to him is you chose to not be in a marriage with a man who is cheating so you are filing for divorce.

Do you have a job? Do you have access to money or does he control all the money?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Can’t believe I just read all that, and I didn’t even read it all.

That your husband is still in contact — AT ANY LEVEL — with his affair partner is all the proof that you need to know that the affair is still on.

Rule #1 of post-infidelity marital reconciliation is that the wayward spouse is to _immediately_ cut *any and ALL* confact with his or her affair partner. Without that, there can be no true reconciliation.

For as long as they’re in contact, the affair is still on.

And the reason that he’s throwing all of the bull**** gaslighting and manipulation your way is that he _knows_ that it will prompt you to back down.

Stop falling for it.


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## Blaine (Jul 23, 2015)

Patience I think if you had video of him ****ing her he would first deny thats what it was then that if was ur fault that it happened. Ur post has an aire of doubt in ur mind so he would definitly turn it around on u. I love the part where u telling him that he cant be "friends" with his lover is abusive but him cheating, blocking u, questioning ur sainity is he way of showing he cares. Gaslight much? with a 1yo u may not be up for the fight you need to have but for ur kids and urself U need to figure something out.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Whether or not he is in an active affair (which I believe he is having) you have a right to say you don't want to be married to a man who remains friends with a woman he had an affair with.

In addition, even if he never had an affair with her, you have a right to say (and act on it) that you do not desire to be in a marriage with a man who talks with a woman about her period and about "not getting enough ****."

If he doesn't like that, fine. You are well within your rights to take action to not have to be in a marriage with someone who is not on the same page as you and who does not respect YOUR boundaries.

If he doesn't like your separating yourself from him (through divorce) then he can do what you have asked of him (to cut off all ties with his affair partner and stop having female friends).

He is free to make his choices, and you are free to make yours.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Are you serious — are you really asking if this is “enough” proof?

Darling, get thee hither and yon to your county courthouse and file for divorce.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

*Moderator Warning:-*

The next person who tries to game the word filter by using cute techniques will have their post deleted and will earn themselves a time out ban.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@PatienceOut do you have enough evidence, enough proof?

I don't know. But the divorce lawyer you get an appointment with, they will know if you have enough evidence, enough proof.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Agree with all of the poster...your husband is a sick man, you need to leave Now, don't confront him have him served.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Patienceout, your patience should have ran out a long time ago.

1. Go see a lawyer, yesterday, get your ducks in a row
2. Confront your WH immediately, keep all the evidence
3. Do you live in a 'fault state" the lawyer will help you with this
4. Expose expose expose to your family, his family, your older kids, friends, and personally I would screen shot all the crap and post it on their friends FB pages (I am not sure if that is legal) but let the whole world see
5. Is he not working? If he has time to FB all day then he must be the usual waste of space?
6. Are you working? If you are ask the lawyer how you can protect yourself , your money and your kids
7. Confide in your sibling or close friend in order to have support, do you have family nearby?
8 I think there is little point in reconciling with this kind of man (sorry) but he has absolutely no respect for you, he will soon discover that messing around with a girl half his age is disgusting and once he is exposed, it wont be so rosy.
9. Don't threaten, beg, plead, etc. Act like you mean it and give him divorce papers, you are much better off without him. Go scorched earth on his ass cause he deserves it.
10. If mutual friends are hiding this from you, expose them as well, publicly even better. Two faced people should never be allowed to hide under a rock like the slime they are.
11. Cut contact with all of them including your good for nothing WH (except for child support and kids visits).

If my WH was like this, I would get all my ducks in a row, after seeing the lawyer to ensure I was within my rights, change the locks, throw his stuff on the lawn and then on FB to all his friends declare that the divorce papers are in an envelop with his stuff on the lawn, he is welcome to the 21 yr old **** and not to come back.
You should also tell her parents that they have raised a wonderful daughter who is prepared to sleep with a married man and be the cause of breaking up his marriage. Do you know her parents. Share the FB screen shots with them also.

See how fast the affair fantasy will wear off then. Honestly you are better of without him. Let her have him, why would you want to fight for that?


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

The proof is right in front of you. Heaps of it. That's rich coming from his mouth he calls you abusive. He's gaslighting you. And he's ****ing this girl . Might as well be right in front of you. He's not even trying to hide it. And his friends??! They're all enabling *******s. Don't confront him. You will NEVER get the truth. Cheaters lie. 

Your next thing to do is contact a divorce attorney and have your cheater husband served. Don't do the pick me dance with this homewrecker, don't fight over a pig turd. Don't say a word about it, your husband may hide assets from you. Be stealthy.

I'm so sorry. You deserve much better.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

PatienceOut said:


> One where she posts she is sick and he comments that it is really a bummer that “she is on her period so she also isn’t getting any ****.” Why would he know that she is on her period? She didn’t mention that in the post. Also, it seems pretty obvious that the **** she is not getting right then is him, right?
> That was 5 days ago.


There's no nice way to say this. You married a disgusting imbecile. Not only does he barely have the IQ of the common fruit fly, but he sounds like a classless little 16 year old pimple-faced kid who doesn't know any better and posts garbage like this for the world to read. If my husband were *this *ignorant, I would have been gone a long time ago.



> Another post a week ago where she talks about his genitals being “strong and yummy”.


Well, not too many people accuse 21 year old bimbos of being rocket scientists, now do they? No, they don't. She's just a young dumb-ass so at least SHE has an excuse for her ignorance. Your husband, however, is just a lying pig who thinks he's King **** because he found a 21 year old stupid enough to screw him.



> I just am unsure how to confront him with this and not be told that its all a joke or that i am misunderstanding. Should I try to get more definitive proof? He never lets go of his phone and I can’t figure out his computer password at all.
> I gave him many opportunities to tell me the truth. He told me many times that there is nothing going on and that I am being abusive by continually thinking that he is.


Since the lying POS doesn't give a *rat's ass* about how you feel or how he treats you (he's made that VERY VERY obvious) what is it you hope to accomplish by confronting him? That he'll suddenly stop acting like the disgusting POS he is and become a decent person? Realize the error of his ways? Stop letting his revolting **** do his thinking _for_ him? I'm sorry, but that ship sailed long ago.

The *real* question is, how long do you intend to stick around and be completely disrespected, humiliated, betrayed, and made a fool of?


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## Tomara (Jun 19, 2013)

You are allowing yourself to be played. File for divorce because it’s doubtful he will stop screwing the OW. Have pride in yourself.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> *Moderator Warning:-*
> 
> The next person who tries to game the word filter by using cute techniques will have their post deleted and will earn themselves a time out ban.


OK, Boss. :surprise:

Damn, aw' ****sky! :grin2:

....................................................

She says your husbands genitals are yummy!
That's plenty enough proof for anyone's taste.

Yuk, not mine. 

I am heterosexual.



King Brian-


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

You have a friend who has access to both of their FB pages, right? So, get her/him to ask bimbo if she is good with children because she and your POS husband will be having them 50% of the time. 

That should put a damper on their 'friendship'. Then follow through and file for divorce. Let's see that piece of garbage you're married to find someone else willing to co-raise 5 kids. In the meantime, close the bakery. No more little buns in the oven.


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## PatienceOut (Sep 21, 2018)

Thank you all who took the time to read my lengthy verbose post. I appreciate it! 

To answer some questions, yes I have screenshots of all the facebook things i mentioned and pictures of the text messages from the earlier affair as well. 

As for them going no contact I tried to tell him not to talk to her again but he told me it was abusive and that I don't get to police him. He said giving him the ultimatum between her or me is not a reasonable request, so he didn't chose. 
I’d agree that would be really controlling if I were telling him to stop his friendships with women (of which he has tons of female friends that i have never cared about or tried to make my business). But the thing is, even though he claims she’s just like his guy friends to her, she isn’t. It just isn’t the same when he CHEATED on me with her.

He does have a job. He sold his business and now we own a business together. But yes, he has lots of free time to sit on his computer all day.


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## PatienceOut (Sep 21, 2018)

He met her on Craigslist, they originally had some type of "sugar baby" situation. Which he said stopped after the first month since she is incredibly overweight and he is in great shape, he said he felt like it should have been the other way around, with her paying him. 
All ridiculous i know. 

We own a business together, and yes he controls all the finances. He also has a camera on the safe where he keeps all the bank records and such, so I have no way to access them. 

I do not have family nearby at all. We live in the same state as his family. Part of what makes me hesitant to divorce. And he is the only relationship I have been in in my adult life. I really hate to sound so dense (or maybe I am just in severe denial) but does no one think he might just be having a lapse in judgement and that he can change and come back to his senses?


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## PatienceOut (Sep 21, 2018)

I was thinking that rather than confront him with it first, I go to his parents with all of this proof and tell them my next stop is to the lawyer to file if he does not stop all contact with her. 

The thing is, Im not even sure that will work. A part of me knows he will just hide it better. But I really want to believe that he will feel bad and want to stop.


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## PatienceOut (Sep 21, 2018)

I was thinking that rather than confront him with it first, I go to his parents with all of this proof and tell them my next stop is to the lawyer to file if he does not stop all contact with her. 

The thing is, Im not even sure that will work. A part of me knows he will just hide it better. But I really want to believe that he will feel bad and want to stop.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

PO, you are already trying to rationalise his behaviour, big big mistake, you have to be willing to lose this marriage to save it. (Though a man who has so many female friends and has no respect for your feelings about that and tells you to butt out of his life is a man not worth keeping imho). You have to be ready to go scorched earth, otherwise you will be still in this limbo land, using his parents alone is not going to work unless you are willing to do everything else told to you on this forum. Go and see a lawyer, see what your rights are. He will have to pay you alimony and support, so what are you scared off?


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

Dealbreaker #1
"He said giving him the ultimatum between her or me is not a reasonable request, so he didn't chose."

Is he serious? And unfortunately, are you serious, you need to completely wrap your head around that one. This is not a light aspect right here. If HE cannot 'chose', you choose for him with a divorce filing and civil process.

"I’d agree that would be really controlling if I were telling him to stop his friendships with women"
No, no, no and more no!

As his wife, his partner, even if he DIDN'T cheat with her you have that right. Guys need time with friends, bonding, etc, with other GUYS! Again, even if it just made you uncomfortable and he didn't cheat with her, you have the right to veto female friendships. The fact that he did cheat with her means he still, on some level, has a relationship with her.

Your husband is acting like a straight up low life and that being the case .... needs to be dealt with like one.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

He's continuing to play you and you're allowing it. This is what he wants. He likes the excitement. Why would he stop?

Stop hoping and start acting. Or else turn a blind eye to what he does. Those are your choices.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Claiming that you are controlling for asking him to stop
talking to her is bullcrap. 

Classic cheater misdirection.

Call him out on this. Dont tolerate it for one minute.

this guy's a real piece of work. 

So sorry for you.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

Patience, you are acting like you have a low self esteem. Very few people would tolerate their partner having an affair and being blatant about it. Why are you staying with him? You know you can't make him stop his affair but you can choose to not be a part of his life. Live on your own term and don't tolerate this as a normal relationship that you want to model for your kids.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

PatienceOut said:


> Thank you all who took the time to read my lengthy verbose post. I appreciate it!
> 
> To answer some questions, yes I have screenshots of all the facebook things i mentioned and pictures of the text messages from the earlier affair as well.
> 
> ...


It is NOT unreasonable to expect your wayward husband to cut contact with his mistress — _what’s unreasonable is that you’d have to demand it of him_.

It’s unreasonable that he’d insist on being permitted to continue contact with her.

It’s unreasonable for him to expect to be able to remain in marriage with you while he’s still in contact with her.

It’s unreasonable for him to expect that YOU would choose to remain in marriage with him for as long as he’s in contact with her — or with anyone with whom she’s associated. And yes, that includes his friends.

It’s time for you to wake up, stand up, and refuse to be subjected to this treatment anymore.

Start talking with lawyers and file for divorce ASAP.


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## PatienceOut (Sep 21, 2018)

aine said:


> PO, you are already trying to rationalise his behaviour, big big mistake, you have to be willing to lose this marriage to save it. (Though a man who has so many female friends and has no respect for your feelings about that and tells you to butt out of his life is a man not worth keeping imho). You have to be ready to go scorched earth, otherwise you will be still in this limbo land, using his parents alone is not going to work unless you are willing to do everything else told to you on this forum. Go and see a lawyer, see what your rights are. He will have to pay you alimony and support, so what are you scared off?


I am willing to end the marriage. I don't want to though. I don't want to throw away a 21 year friendship and wreck my kids lives. At the same time I don't know how I can live with him disrespecting me and lying to me for another minute. I don't want to be stuck in limbo either. 

I made an appointment to see a lawyer tomorrow. I haven't confronted him yet, he was visiting friends overnight and hasn't been home. 

Honestly, I am scared to death of the monumental change this is going to create.


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## PatienceOut (Sep 21, 2018)

I agree that it is unreasonable for him to still be in contact with her. But he really makes me feel like I am in the wrong for thinking this way. He insist that I am trying to control him. 

And I agree that he shouldn't be in contact with friends that are friends with her as well. I agree with all of that. Just not sure how to make him do it. 
Im guessing the only way to even get close to achieving that happening is by starting divorce process?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

PatienceOut said:


> I am willing to end the marriage. I don't want to though. I don't want to throw away a 21 year friendship and wreck my kids lives. At the same time I don't know how I can live with him disrespecting me and lying to me for another minute. I don't want to be stuck in limbo either.
> 
> I made an appointment to see a lawyer tomorrow. I haven't confronted him yet, *he was visiting friends overnight and hasn't been home.*
> 
> Honestly, I am scared to death of the monumental change this is going to create.


He was/is likely with her.


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## PatienceOut (Sep 21, 2018)

Bananapeel said:


> Patience, you are acting like you have a low self esteem. Very few people would tolerate their partner having an affair and being blatant about it. Why are you staying with him? You know you can't make him stop his affair but you can choose to not be a part of his life. Live on your own term and don't tolerate this as a normal relationship that you want to model for your kids.


I feel like constantly wondering about other women and, unfortunately, comparing myself to them has taken a hit on my self-esteem. 

I've stayed with him because beyond these glaring problems, he is my best friend and a good dad. I didn't grow up with a father in my life and I don't want to do that to my kids. 

He has also threatened to impregnate other women if I leave him. So, there's that as well.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

PatienceOut said:


> I agree that it is unreasonable for him to still be in contact with her. But he really makes me feel like I am in the wrong for thinking this way. He insist that I am trying to control him.
> 
> And I agree that he shouldn't be in contact with friends that are friends with her as well. I agree with all of that. Just not sure how to make him do it.
> Im guessing the only way to even get close to achieving that happening is by starting divorce process?


If he were willing to do all the things that he SHOULD be doing in order to reconcile your marriage (a reconciliation that is necessary only because he put the marriage at risk with his infidelity), there would be no need for you to “control” him.

But he’s not.

So you’re “controlling”.

I really hope you’re getting the sarcasm implied by my use of quotes.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

The truth is that you can't "make" him do anything. He has to want to change and so far he doesn't. Threatening to get other women pregnant if you leave him? Doesn't sound like a best friend to me -- certainly not someone who really cares about his wife and children. 

I can tell you from experience that fear of the unknown will keep you with a cheater. That's a very difficult life to live. Don't.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

PatienceOut said:


> I feel like constantly wondering about other women and, unfortunately, comparing myself to them has taken a hit on my self-esteem.
> 
> I've stayed with him because beyond these glaring problems, he is my best friend and a good dad. I didn't grow up with a father in my life and I don't want to do that to my kids.
> 
> He has also threatened to impregnate other women if I leave him. So, there's that as well.


Your reasoning is terribly flawed.

"Best friends" don't do to each other what your husband has done -- and is still doing -- to you. If you seriously believe, in spite of everything that he's done, that he's your best friend, all I can think to say is that you need more friends. Hell, your run-of-the mill carjacker would probably be a better friend.

"Good dads" don't do to the mothers of their children what your husband has done -- and, again, is still doing -- to you. It's possible to be a good dad without being a husband. It is NOT possible, however, to be a good dad while being a _bad husband_. 

And besides, if you divorce and he doesn't make time for the kids as a result, that's on him.

Which would you prefer -- that your kids see their mother sticking up for herself in a principled, dignified way or that they see their mother broken at every turn by their father's selfishness? In divorcing they can have at least one stable parent in one stable household -- right now they have neither.

Oh, and be sure to expose his threats with respect to impregnating other women. Should be a hoot for the kids, along with his parents, friends, pastor, etc to hear that one.


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

No best friend that was actually a friend would ever say or do these things. He may have been one at some point but he is far from a friend now and probably sees you as an obstacle to his own happiness in his diluted world. 

They can still have a father, he may even be a better father when he has to take care of him on their own. He may be a good father when measuring the stand alone traits of one but no good father would put his family through what he is. He needs a reality check. Sadly, he won't be able to get it at all in the current situation. He needs a wake-up call.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

It's already been mentioned but we have different ideals of what makes a best friend. My best friend wouldn't do anything to screw me over ever, and he's shown me on multiple occasions that he totally has my back. With your husband you might consider him to be your best friend but if you look at his words/actions he doesn't consider you to be any sort of friend to him. 

As far as him impregnating other women if you leave him, why do you care? Part of leaving (i.e. divorcing) is each person is free to do whatever they want to do. So if he wants to have more kids, then he's allowed to and the same goes for you. What he's really communicating by that threat is he expects you to accept his affair or he'll further damage YOUR idea of what YOU think YOUR family should be. He's just trying to control you by offering you the choice of his affair (a bad deal in your eyes but tolerable) or a terrible deal (at least in your eyes). The problem with this logic is you aren't thinking with a clear head. If he enacts his threats they won't hurt anyone but him. Think about it. Each extra kid is more child support he has to pay so a worse lifestyle that he can afford for himself. A couple more kids and all he'll be able to afford is crashing on a friend's couch and eating boxed macaroni and cheese. 

If he's like most men the biggest concern he's going to have is whether you'll clean him out, so speak to an attorney and take him for everything you can. That will cause one quick attitude adjustment on his part. 

BTW, you should consider counseling because you have daddy issues and co-dependency issues that are preventing you from recognizing your self-worth. I don't say this to be mean, just so you realize that part of why he's gotten away with his behavior for so long is you haven't learned to develop the inner strength to stand up for yourself.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

PatienceOut,

You are not processing your current life through the right glasses. You are using pre-cheating glasses and you need to put on your post cheating/REALITY glasses.

If one of your friends's husbands were acting like your husband is acting, or if one of your children were married to someone behaving like your husband, what would you tell them?

What do you want to model to your children? If you have daughters, do you want to model to them that they can be treated like crap and not draw any lines in the sand?

Do you want to model to your sons that they can cheat on their wives without any consequences?

Don't you want your children to see dignity and self respect modeled through you? 

Your husband is not being a good father by cheating on the mother of his children and treating her with total disregard.

He is neither a good father, nor a good friend to you. He is definitely not husband material (any more.)


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## FieryHairedLady (Mar 24, 2011)

OP, lots of good advice already given.

Think about this: What kind of marriage are you modeling for the kids? Do you want your girls in a marriage like this?

Do you want your sons treating their wife like this?

This marriage is unacceptable.

There are people who have had affairs on this forum, and/or had spouses who have had affairs. Some have reconciled, some have divorced.

Your current state of events is not acceptable at all. 

He is still in contact with his affair partner and all the friends who think this is acceptable as well.

This is not acceptable.

Not for you, not for your kids. 

He is showing no respect for you or the marriage, or himself. He is showing no signs of making steos toward restitution and reconciliation. 

An immediate separation is in order.

Contact an attorney and see what the next steps are.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

PatienceOut said:


> I am willing to end the marriage. I don't want to though. I don't want to throw away a 21 year friendship and wreck my kids lives.


 Something you need to know right this minute. You did not throw away a 21 year friendship and wreck your kids lives. Your husband did the minute he decided to **** another woman. Remember that. Repeat it again and again and again until you believe it. Those are facts.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

That's his threat? To knock up other women? He must think he's Johnny Appleseed. Why are you supposed to care? Seriously, this guy is not playing with a full deck. Get thee to a lawyer asap! File for divorce and get first claim to child support.

Be aware that any money he's spent on that prostitute will be considered marital assets and he will have to repay you 50%. How old are you two?


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Yup, go talk to an atty. most will give a free 15-30 minute consult where you can get basic questions answered and find out how to protect yourself an$ the kids.

I think you should seek counseling to have someone in real life provide you support and unbiased advice. This forum can be very good, but I think you need a real person to talk to who isn’t family or friend. Someone without bias or agenda and who you can trust to keep quiet.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

There may be a different but even worse explanation... Maybe there's nothing going on for now, and it's all a show to (a) determine your limits, boundaries, or ability to investigate or (b) mind games to get you to start a divorce while he's "innocent" or (c) get you to accept a new normal of some kind. 

None of the above is a good reason obviously but it would take a major league Bozo to continue to act like that given what has happened.

All the suggestions offered would work but it's at minimum curious why he's so blatantly open about it.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

PatienceOut said:


> I am willing to end the marriage. I don't want to though. I don't want to throw away a 21 year friendship and wreck my kids lives. At the same time I don't know how I can live with him disrespecting me and lying to me for another minute. I don't want to be stuck in limbo either.
> 
> I made an appointment to see a lawyer tomorrow. I haven't confronted him yet, he was visiting friends overnight and hasn't been home.
> 
> Honestly, I am scared to death of the monumental change this is going to create.


I'm honestly trying to decide if you're pulling our legs because most teenagers aren't this clueless and naive, so I kind of think someone's having a good laugh on us. 

Know why I think this?

Because I don't know *anyone* over the age of 16 years old who actually *believes* an abusive, lying, cheating, selfish, manipulative, perverted pig like your husband - who looks for prostitutes on Craigslist - is 'just friends' with ANY female. He apparently has to pay women to have sex with him and has to resort to Craigslist, so I'm picturing he's a close second to Quasimodo. I also don't know any females young or old who would actually believe their husband was 'staying overnight with friends' like you claim in your last post.

You're married to an arrogant serial cheater.

So if you're not pulling our legs and actually believe everything this piece of goat **** tells you, then you really need to re-think your reality. :frown2:


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

john117 said:


> None of the above is a good reason obviously but it would take a major league Bozo to continue to act like that given what has happened.
> 
> All the suggestions offered would work but it's at minimum curious why he's so blatantly open about it.



My guess, having lived through something shockingly similar to the OP's current situation, is that he's blatant about it because he can be. All those female 'friends'? A friend circle who apparently support his open relationship with his mistress? A self-centeredness so profound as to be nearly comical? Yeah, odds are this guy's a serial cheater. 

This level of lack of caring to hide his activities isn't something you generally see in someone having an affair for the first time. It takes practice to build up that level of moxy. Lots of practice getting away with cheating with the little wife none the wiser. To the point that eventually, he's come to regard her as just too stupid to catch on, and too weak to do anything about it even if she did. After all, this is who he's been, and what he's been doing, for a long time. 

He's likely pretty sure that she's not going anywhere - she never has before. So why go to the trouble of hiding? He's probably imagining that if he just waits out her little mad about all this, that she'll go back to taking care of his daily life and his children like she's supposed to, and he can carry on as he always has.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

OP, I'm so very sorry you're in this situation. I once found myself where you are. You've asked how to get him to do what you need him to do. The reality is that you can't make him do anything. What you can do is choose not to stick around while he continues to treat you badly. 

You probably want to figure out a way for him to hear you. You probably think that if you can just figure out how to say it the right way, communicate it just so, maybe he'll finally get it, finally understand how much he's hurting you. Because, you imagine, if he really knew and understood, he'd stop doing these things that are hurting you. 

What you're failing to consider is that he_ has_ heard you. He _does _know. He _does_ get it. What he doesn't do is care enough about you to stop. 

I know that's painful and awful and crushing to hear. But it's the truth. And accepting it, processing it, knowing and understanding it to your soul, will help you find your mad. And, girl, you _really_ need your mad. You need the anger that should be within you over being treated so badly. You need the anger that's currently hiding under layers and layers of poor self-esteem. Which is why I strongly suggest some individual counseling to work on your self-esteem and on how to set and enforce healthy boundaries. 

Then, get mad! Use your righteous anger to fuel your determination to do what it takes to change this situation. Use it to give you the strength to divorce this man who's made a game out of publicly humiliating you. Use it to give your children a better role model of what a healthy, strong, determined woman can do and be and make happen for herself and her children.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

PatienceOut said:


> Thank you all who took the time to read my lengthy verbose post. I appreciate it!
> 
> To answer some questions, yes I have screenshots of all the facebook things i mentioned and pictures of the text messages from the earlier affair as well.
> 
> ...


GIRL, you have issues if you think that expecting your HUSBAND to respect your relationship enough to not be in contact with other women is controlling! His gaslighting is working, you are believing the bullcrap! I cant believe you came here to ask if all this was enough proof... this is completely insane what he is doing! Putting his affair out there in public is beyond disgusting. How your friends are not beating down your door to take you away from this piece of filth is beyond me! If you consider staying with this man, then you are in for a lifetime of pain and heartache. This man is NOT worth fighting for. There are only supposed to be TWO people in a marriage, you should NEVER have to fight for your place.


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

I Seriously can't believe i read all that. A word of direct advice i sincerley hope you take.

Seek out a Divorce Lawyer ASAP. File on his arse without warning or hesitation. Seperate all joint bank accounts, Credit Cards etc again without warning. He will approach you demanding to know why you have done this. Your answers are short simple and to the point without debating it with him.

Something along the lines of.

I am no longer tolerating your foul and ****ty behaviour. You have fu...cked another woman and then you continue to see her and disrespect me. It ends here. You obviously don't respect me so our marriage is done.

After his initial protests, and victim playing if you stick to your guns and don't back down it will probably snap him back into reality or at the very least enable you to gain your self respect and dignity back. He will only do to you what you tolerate.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

PatienceOut said:


> I agree that it is unreasonable for him to still be in contact with her. But he really makes me feel like I am in the wrong for thinking this way. He insist that I am trying to control him.


Cheaters often talk about their cheated on spouse trying to "control" them. Tell him that if he wants to call marriage vows "control", then so be it, he is free to not honor them, but not as your husband.


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## Tomara (Jun 19, 2013)

PatienceOut said:


> He met her on Craigslist, they originally had some type of "sugar baby" situation. Which he said stopped after the first month since she is incredibly overweight and he is in great shape, he said he felt like it should have been the other way around, with her paying him.
> 
> All ridiculous i know.
> 
> ...




I don’t hate to say this but if it was me I would smash the camera looking at the safe. **** him you have a right to all info. You are fooling yourself, wake up. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PatienceOut (Sep 21, 2018)

GusPolinski said:


> Your reasoning is terribly flawed.
> 
> "Best friends" don't do to each other what your husband has done -- and is still doing -- to you. If you seriously believe, in spite of everything that he's done, that he's your best friend, all I can think to say is that you need more friends. Hell, your run-of-the mill carjacker would probably be a better friend.
> 
> ...


Of course I would rather my kids see me sticking up for myself, but I don't know that they view me as a victim of their dad since they don't know about his affairs. Except our oldest, who knows about a different affair my husband had a long time ago (which eventually led to us being separated for a few months as that affair went on for years), he doesn't really think that highly of his dad for the most part anyway. 



SentHereForAReason said:


> No best friend that was actually a friend would ever say or do these things. He may have been one at some point but he is far from a friend now and probably sees you as an obstacle to his own happiness in his diluted world.


I agree that he probably does see me as an obstacle since I often feel like he is just "yessing" me to get me to drop whatever I am asking of him.


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## Tomara (Jun 19, 2013)

Then why stay? I have to say on here people tell men to grow a set of balls. Women need to follow the same. We as women are not incapable of being smart and leave the emotion out.

I noticed that women on this forum will listen to a mans post first. Grow a set. For women to comprise their soul to keep a man is just not right. Love or not!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PatienceOut (Sep 21, 2018)

Bananapeel said:


> It's already been mentioned but we have different ideals of what makes a best friend. My best friend wouldn't do anything to screw me over ever, and he's shown me on multiple occasions that he totally has my back. With your husband you might consider him to be your best friend but if you look at his words/actions he doesn't consider you to be any sort of friend to him.
> 
> As far as him impregnating other women if you leave him, why do you care? Part of leaving (i.e. divorcing) is each person is free to do whatever they want to do. So if he wants to have more kids, then he's allowed to and the same goes for you. What he's really communicating by that threat is he expects you to accept his affair or he'll further damage YOUR idea of what YOU think YOUR family should be. He's just trying to control you by offering you the choice of his affair (a bad deal in your eyes but tolerable) or a terrible deal (at least in your eyes). The problem with this logic is you aren't thinking with a clear head. If he enacts his threats they won't hurt anyone but him. Think about it. Each extra kid is more child support he has to pay so a worse lifestyle that he can afford for himself. A couple more kids and all he'll be able to afford is crashing on a friend's couch and eating boxed macaroni and cheese.
> 
> ...


I think you are right and your response hit me really hard. I've been digesting everything you've said all day. I really appreciate the advice and I know that deep down this is all true. Especially the part of him trying to make his affair the lesser of two evils. 

I really think I am in some sort of serious denial about what he is doing. I really do not want to believe and have it be my reality.
It is so difficult when he is being so normal at soccer practice or watching tv and laughing after dinner, or giving advice about bullying to one of the kids. All things that have happened in the past 24 hours. But then I remember in the back of my head what he has been doing, IS DOING, and I freak out a bit. 

Also, they are not being public-public with it. I was able to see these interactions through a friends account - who he has now also blocked - their facebook pages are both private. 
I have still not confronted, but I think he suspects I know as he has taken things I've said to him and had extreme/rude reactions. He also told me he thought I was trying to get onto his computer (which I actually wasn't, I had long given up trying to get into that) and he said he has been looking at my computer through a router. I don't even really know what that means. 

For those who asked, he's 42 and I'm 40. We have been together since I was 19. And he is/was my only adult relationship.


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## PatienceOut (Sep 21, 2018)

Araucaria said:


> PatienceOut,
> 
> You are not processing your current life through the right glasses. You are using pre-cheating glasses and you need to put on your post cheating/REALITY glasses.
> 
> ...


I would tell them to leave. My family and friends have told me to leave. at this point I have to wonder why I am holding myself back? I know part of it is kids and our house. 
I absolutely wouldn't want any of my kids to put up with this type of behavior and I hope that wouldn't act like he has been either. Thank you.



FieryHairedLady said:


> OP, lots of good advice already given.
> 
> Think about this: What kind of marriage are you modeling for the kids? Do you want your girls in a marriage like this?
> 
> ...





Thor said:


> Yup, go talk to an atty. most will give a free 15-30 minute consult where you can get basic questions answered and find out how to protect yourself an$ the kids.
> 
> I think you should seek counseling to have someone in real life provide you support and unbiased advice. This forum can be very good, but I think you need a real person to talk to who isn’t family or friend. Someone without bias or agenda and who you can trust to keep quiet.


Thank you. I did go see a lawyer today. It was relatively short and I learned more about custody and assets, my main concerns. I know his parents would try to help him get more custody than me. I am worried about that as well. There is a lot more to our history, this is not completely new behavior for him-just more extreme/brazen. 



john117 said:


> There may be a different but even worse explanation... Maybe there's nothing going on for now, and it's all a show to (a) determine your limits, boundaries, or ability to investigate or (b) mind games to get you to start a divorce while he's "innocent" or (c) get you to accept a new normal of some kind.
> 
> None of the above is a good reason obviously but it would take a major league Bozo to continue to act like that given what has happened.
> 
> All the suggestions offered would work but it's at minimum curious why he's so blatantly open about it.


I really do not understand why he would do this? He's had dozens and dozens of online only sexting/relationships that I only found out about 3 years ago, he said those have all stopped. Hard to know, but I have seen evidence that would say that that's probably not completely true. 

I just don't understand why either of them would say all of that for my benefit if they know I can't see it? 
He doesn't want a divorce, he has always said he would rather live in a "sham" marriage than get divorced. But I do agree that he wants me to think that it is some type of new normal. 
Especially since when I caught him last October he tried to justify it by saying that we were fighting and he didn't think I wanted to be with him so he could do what he wanted. 
It's a lot to think about.


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## PatienceOut (Sep 21, 2018)

Tomara said:


> I don’t hate to say this but if it was me I would smash the camera looking at the safe. **** him you have a right to all info. You are fooling yourself, wake up.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thinking I might cover it up with something. But you are right, I really do need to wake up and "grow a pair" as you said.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

PatienceOut,

You need to find your self respect and stop putting up with being treated like a housekeeper and babysitter.

My husband had an emotional affair with one woman 9 years ago, and he is respecting my boundaries: no femaie friends, no flirting, and no pornography.

100% transparency is important in a marriage. Especially a marriage where there has been infidelity.

All of our electronic devices are open for me to look at. I know all the passwords to everything. I check his history regularly, and pick up his phone whenever I want to. He can also look at my stuff if he wants to.

If he ever took issue with me looking at the computer or his phone, I would visit a lawyer. I don't need crap at this stage of my life.

It is time you had a heart to heart with your husband and you laid down your expectations, boundaries, and told him to back off regarding giving you a hard time for checking the computer. He is in the dog house, not you.


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## PatienceOut (Sep 21, 2018)

Trying to reply to all asked questions, thank you to anyone who replied.



She'sStillGotIt said:


> I'm honestly trying to decide if you're pulling our legs because most teenagers aren't this clueless and naive, so I kind of think someone's having a good laugh on us.
> 
> Know why I think this?
> 
> ...


I'm not having a laugh or pulling a prank, this is sadly really my reality right now. If I come across as naive, I probably am but I was not so naive to not realize that he was up to something (again). 
He's actually a really good looking guy and in great shape, well educated and very successful business-wise. Not sure why he would post on Craigslist or be on Tinder phone, my guess is most decent women don't "date" married men. There are plenty of women on his facebook who practically throw themselves at him (but i personally think these are all pretty low life women to be like that).
Normally I would agree with you that "Staying with friends" sounds suspicious (and I question his whereabouts enough to know), but these are guy friends he only sees a few times a year. 

You are correct in that he is a serial cheater. This is not his first time, but it is his second time with this woman and I just feel stupid about that. I am in denial a bit that he is truly doing this to me AGAIN. 
He's had sex with six other people in our marriage. Not all full affairs but mostly they were. He's also had dozens of sexting/online relationships. 
It is clear to me he has a problem but I've no idea how to help him. 



Rowan said:


> My guess, having lived through something shockingly similar to the OP's current situation, is that he's blatant about it because he can be. All those female 'friends'? A friend circle who apparently support his open relationship with his mistress? A self-centeredness so profound as to be nearly comical? Yeah, odds are this guy's a serial cheater.
> 
> This level of lack of caring to hide his activities isn't something you generally see in someone having an affair for the first time. It takes practice to build up that level of moxy. Lots of practice getting away with cheating with the little wife none the wiser. To the point that eventually, he's come to regard her as just too stupid to catch on, and too weak to do anything about it even if she did. After all, this is who he's been, and what he's been doing, for a long time.
> 
> He's likely pretty sure that she's not going anywhere - she never has before. So why go to the trouble of hiding? He's probably imagining that if he just waits out her little mad about all this, that she'll go back to taking care of his daily life and his children like she's supposed to, and he can carry on as he always has.


 You are right, I do think that's how he feels/thinks because that is how it has been. Except now I am actually fed up with it and am ready to do something about it. 
Trying to figure out my next steps now and decide if I even want to confront him.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

PatienceOut said:


> Is this proof?
> 
> So this is a short snippet of a much longer history, and I apologize in advance for the scattered-ness. To start off my husband and i have been married 18 years, together for 21. We have 5 kids, our youngest was born just last year. I consider my husband to be my best friend, I used to think he felt the same but i don’t think that is the case any longer.
> 
> ...


*Hell Yes! Your dear H is both a cheater and a chronic liar!

While he's out chasing young stuff, you need to be chasing an old experienced family law attorney to file divorce papers for you and quartering him no mercy!*


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## Oceania (Jul 12, 2018)

PatienceOut said:


> You are correct in that he is a serial cheater. This is not his first time, but it is his second time with this woman and I just feel stupid about that. I am in denial a bit that he is truly doing this to me AGAIN.
> He's had sex with six other people in our marriage. Not all full affairs but mostly they were. He's also had dozens of sexting/online relationships.
> *It is clear to me he has a problem but I've no idea how to help him. *


Omg he doesn't WANT your help! He is having an absolute FABULOUS time without you thank you very much.
He is only in the marriage for the children. You my dear are an appendage.

You have heard all this before from friends, family etc...

Find your cajones and go off and discover what a half decent relationship is supposed to look like.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Patience, I am losing patience with you. By your own admission he is a serial cheater. What are you teaching your kids? Take him for every penny you can. The first people you expose him to should be his parents. You have the evidence, use it the same day you hand him the divorce papers. He knows you better than us.
You have shown him over the years, no matter what way he treats you, no matter what way he hurts you, no matter how he flaunts women in front of your face, you will take it all lying down. He even has the audacity to say he never wants a divorce and would rather be in a sham marriage cause he knows he can do to you what he wants and you will simply take it all.
When are you going to find your inner strength and righteous anger and go scorched earth on this sick SOB's ass? If you cannot stand up for yourself at least do it for your children so that they will look and you and remember with respect. 
Get a bulldog lawyer and show him you are not going to take it lying down any more!


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

PatienceOut said:


> You are correct in that he is a serial cheater. This is not his first time, but it is his second time with this woman and I just feel stupid about that. I am in denial a bit that he is truly doing this to me AGAIN.
> He's had sex with six other people in our marriage. Not all full affairs but mostly they were. He's also had dozens of sexting/online relationships.
> I*t is clear to me he has a problem but I've no idea how to help him.*


PatienceOut, you are like the frog in the pot of water slowly boiling to death and doesn't realize it.

Your sick SOB WH doesn't have a problem apart from a terrible character. He has a great life, perfect family, good marriage for appearance sake, seems to be a good Dad at soccer practice, etc. AND< WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU WANT TO HELP HIM!!!!??>?? You have to help YOURSELF!

Is your self esteem so shot that you are still thinking about and analyzing, him, he has betrayed you to your core and you still don't know what to do? Your thread is painful to read, you need to be shaken out of your reverie. Girl, you seriously need major counselling. How can you be a good well balanced adult for your kids? Stop the bloody pontificating and take action NOW!


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Get STD testing. Now. 

Glad you saw an attorney. Good job. Now follow through. You are modeling to your kids what a so called "healthy" relationship looks like, which this is anything but. How can you let your husband touch you? He's gross.

You are so young! You are worthy of so much more. So much more. The way he parades around like a proud peacock is sickening.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

In your heart you already know the truth.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

PatienceOut said:


> You are correct in that he is a serial cheater. This is not his first time, but it is his second time with this woman and I just feel stupid about that. I am in denial a bit that he is truly doing this to me AGAIN.
> He's had sex with six other people in our marriage. Not all full affairs but mostly they were. He's also had dozens of sexting/online relationships.
> It is clear to me he has a problem but I've no idea how to help him.
> 
> ...



It seems you're wanting to view his serial cheating as some sort of illness that you can love him through and that he'll eventually get over. It's not. This is his personality. This is who he is. This is who he has always been. More importantly, this is who he *wants* to be. There is nothing you can do or say that will change the basic facts of who he is. You could not help him, even if he wanted your help. And, no mistake, he does not want it. Because this lifestyle, this marriage _as it stands_ - with you at home handling all the real-life stuff and him free to do whatever he wants with an endless string of fun on the side - works for him. He isn't interested in making your marriage any different than it is right now, with the exception of he really wishes you'd stop whining and go back to tending to his house and his kids like you're supposed to be doing. He's not interested in changing anything because _he already has the marriage that *he* wants._ 

Do you, OP? Do you have the marriage that you want? Is this relationship, this marriage, this man, all you'd dreamed of when you imagined your future as a girl?

So, what are you actually going to do about that? Because wishing and hoping he would change isn't going to do anything but leave you stuck in limbo. Confronting him isn't going to make him into someone else. You say he's had 6 physical affairs. So how many times has he already been confronted over this behavior? And how effective have those confrontations been in getting him to permanently change who he is?

You have to make decisions _and take action_. Nothing changes if nothing changes.


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## FieryHairedLady (Mar 24, 2011)

OH WOW! You need to get you and your kids the hell out now!!

Talk to some of the men and women here who have cancer because their wayward spouse gave them an std.

You are still young. Young or old, it doesn't matter.

You have wasted too many years of your life with a man who cares nothing for you.

Get out.

Get counseling.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

PatienceOut said:


> You are correct in that he is a serial cheater. This is not his first time, but it is his second time with this woman and I just feel stupid about that. I am in denial a bit that he is truly doing this to me AGAIN.
> He's had sex with six other people in our marriage. Not all full affairs but mostly they were. He's also had dozens of sexting/online relationships.
> It is clear to me he has a problem but I've no idea how to help him.


Jesus! So he has shown you more than once WHO HE REALLY IS. Yet here you are, scratching your head trying to figure out if this is really happening! Why don't you believe him, when his actions show everything so clearly. No way in hell should you consider staying with this man, screw him not wanting a divorce! If that were true, he wouldn't be sticking his **** in other women all the time! You need to get super pissed! He is using you and blatantly disrespecting you. 

You don't help him, you DIVORCE HIM!



PatienceOut said:


> You are right, I do think that's how he feels/thinks because that is how it has been. Except now I am actually fed up with it and am ready to do something about it.
> Trying to figure out my next steps now and decide if I even want to confront him.


I don't think confronting him is even necessary, he already knows that you know. Get your plan moving in secret as much as possible then drop the bomb on his ass. I am just horrified and pissed off for you, you should be too! 

I wouldn't worry too much about the whole custody issue, if I were you. Once he realizes he is being freed up to screw whoever he pleases, I strongly feel that time with his kids is going to be his last priority.


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## faithfulman (Jun 4, 2018)

Again, yes! You have enough proof.

I guess the question is: What do you plan to do with this more than sufficient amount of proof that your husband is STILL CHEATING, has no respect for you, and does not love you?

PatienceOut, what do you plan to do?


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## faithfulman (Jun 4, 2018)

Again, yes! You have enough proof.

I guess the question is: What do you plan to do with this more than sufficient amount of proof that your husband is STILL CHEATING, is openly demonstrating that he has no respect for you, and does not love you?

PatienceOut, what do you plan to do?


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

"I was able to see these interactions through a friends account - who he has now also blocked - their facebook pages are both private. 
I have still not confronted, but I think he suspects I know as he has taken things I've said to him and had extreme/rude reactions."

I HOPE you got screen shots (or still can get them)

"He's actually a really good looking guy "
And on the INSIDE, he is about as ugly as you can get to do this to his wife and kids. He REALLY IS a POS and you need to start realizing this.

"He doesn't want a divorce, he has always said he would rather live in a "sham" marriage than get divorced. "
He already is.... and it's HIS FAULT.

"It is clear to me he has a problem but I've no idea how to help him." IT isn't your job anymore. YOUR job is to protect yourself and your kids. I don't remember how old your kids are, but they may already be aware of some of his crap.

You SHOULD make sure that EVERYONE knows of this crap and that he has cheated so much in your marriage -- your/his parents, siblings, friends, etc.. As far as confronting him, you don't need to. Let the divorce papers be your "confrontation". 

I am VERY sorry you have to deal with this, but you need to steel yourself for what will come and make sure that YOU have a good support system for dealing with him. He sounds like a real POS and will NOT go easily. Get yourself a shark lawyer, and document as much of this as you can -- real hard-copy stuff so anyone who doesn't believe you (his parents?) can be shown facts.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

"Trying to figure out my next steps now and decide if I even want to confront him."

Your not strong enough emotionally to confront and he won't care. He's too good and the manipulation game and he knows exactly how to play you. 

You NEED to just hire a lawyer and file for divorce. Let the lawyer listen to his idle threats and coercion attempts.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

PatienceOut said:


> Thank you all who took the time to read my lengthy verbose post. I appreciate it!
> 
> To answer some questions, yes I have screenshots of all the facebook things i mentioned and pictures of the text messages from the earlier affair as well.
> 
> ...


First - there are PLENTY of happily married people who are NOT okay with their spouse having opposite sex friendships. That's probably why they're still happily married.

But I digress.

Bottom line? You do not need to explain or justify your feelings. There's not a rational person alive who will say it's okay for your husband to be friends with some bimbo half his age who he SCREWED while married to you. YOU are abusive? That's RICH.

Again, I digress...

Look in the mirror and repeat these phrases until you can say them calmly and without emotion and then say them to your husband every chance you get and simultaneously file for divorce. 

YOU: "I'm not willing to remain married to you if you are going to have contact with her."
Him: "blah blah blah controlling blah blah blah abusive blah blah blah don't trust me blah blah blah ****ING blah..."
YOU - with a shrug of the shoulders and slightly perplexed look "I don't care. All I can say is that I just have no desire to be with you under these circumstances."
HIM "Blah BLAH BLAH NEEDY BLAH CONTROLLING BLAH BLAH"
YOU: "Seriously, I am not going to tell a grown man how to behave. All I can say is this doesn't work for me. I have filed for divorce. do you have any thoughts on splitting our assets?"
HIM :"BLAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHIHHHHHHHH DESPERATE BLAH BLAH MANIPULATIVE BLAAAAAAAHHHHHHH........"
You; "You no longer appeal to me. you were my best friend, but I don't feel secure with you, I have no confidence in you and I just don't want to be around a man I can't can't count on. I don't trust you and that kills my desire for you.
HIM BLAAH PARANOID BLAAHHHH INSECURE BLAH JEALOUS BLAH BLAH BLAH......
YOU: It is what it is. Being married to a 40+ year old man who maintain's "friendships" with 20 year olds just turns me off. I find it gross. 
Him: Blah jealous blah insecure blah blah blah blah blah
YOU: Like I said, this isn't working for me...


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

PatienceOut said:


> I feel like constantly wondering about other women and, unfortunately, comparing myself to them has taken a hit on my self-esteem.
> 
> I've stayed with him because beyond these glaring problems, he is my best friend and a good dad. I didn't grow up with a father in my life and I don't want to do that to my kids.
> 
> He has also threatened to impregnate other women if I leave him. So, there's that as well.


Your "best friend" has threatened to impregnate other women if you leave him?

OH SWEETHEART. ♥♥♥

I so hope you can find the strength to leave him. 

Of course you are insecure. Who wouldn't be in your situation? But this is your life and there is a whole world out there waiting for you and your children. And even good dad's get divorced. It happens every day. Especially to the ones who cheat on their loving, trusting wives.

May I suggest you start trying to make some new friends? Even if you're not ready or able to leave him right now. Just reach out and nurture the friendships you do have. Your H has lots of friends, surely he won't mind. Find some women you can talk to and be around. I just went through a divorce and prior to divorcing I really had no close female friends because I was only with my H. all the time. But I started reaching out and I was surprised how many friends made time for me and wanted to get together for lunch or happy hour. It's not the same as a husband but it gives you support and lets you know you are NOT alone.

If you don't have female friends, find a way to get involved in something where you can meet women casually - go to church (even if you're not religious, it's a great way to meet really nice, caring people.) Join a book club. A sport. A hobby group. Do some volunteer work. Anything that gets you out of the house and around other people on a regular basis where friendships can naturally form.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

PatienceOut said:


> We own a business together, and yes he controls all the finances. He also has a camera on the safe where he keeps all the bank records and such, so I have no way to access them.


PLEASE at least TALK to a good lawyer. That business is 50% yours. If he is the main person running the business and you divorce he will have to BUY YOU OUT if he wants it for himself. And you can force a forensic audit (that I hear costs around 30K) to get to the REAL value of the business. Something he definitely won't want if he's been doing any monkey business with the books to save on taxes... And something he also won't want just because 30K is 30K...




PatienceOut said:


> I do not have family nearby at all. We live in the same state as his family. Part of what makes me hesitant to divorce. And he is the only relationship I have been in in my adult life. I really hate to sound so dense (or maybe I am just in severe denial) but does no one think he might just be having a lapse in judgement and that he can change and come back to his senses?


[/QUOTE]


Child PLEASE!!!!!

No, you are not DENSE - you are IN PAIN and SHELL SHOCKED and HUMILIATED and ISOLATED and VICTIMIZED. You have stockholm syndrome. Is there any friends or family you can go to elsewhere? If not, how successful is the business? IF there is money a court will make him support you and your children through the divorce and after the divorce you will get part of the business or alimony for a period and child support.

Even if it feels all wrong, just DO IT. You can blame it on a lapse in judgment later if it turns out to be a huge mistake on your part. He will understand. Yes, that was sarcasm but seriously, you're breaking my heart. Please leave this mentally abusive controlling creep.


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## Steelman (Mar 5, 2018)

What? How are you putting up with this loser for one second more? He's not even hiding it- he's doing it right out in the open!


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Ugh, I think we lost her with the thread posts screwing up.. I hope she returns...


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

WorkingWife said:


> First - there are PLENTY of happily married people who are NOT okay with their spouse having opposite sex friendships. That's probably why they're still happily married.
> 
> But I digress.
> 
> ...


Actually that conversation is too long, one line is all the time and effort OP should spend on him, he is not even worth that!


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

aine said:


> Actually that conversation is too long, one line is all the time and effort OP should spend on him, he is not even worth that!


You make a good point!

I would say though - she's going to have to say something and she should figure out something that he can't start arguing with or picking apart because it sounds like she's really weak minded in his presence.

Actually, she should just take the kids and LEAVE. But assuming that's not possible without a conversation, an "It is what it is, I don't care what you think" attitude would serve her well. (IMO)


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

WorkingWife said:


> First - there are PLENTY of happily married people who are NOT okay with their spouse having opposite sex friendships. That's probably why they're still happily married.
> 
> But I digress.
> 
> ...


I wish I could like this 10 times!

As this post illustrates, learn to speak the truth, YOUR truth. Repeat it, don't get into arguments with him.

He has his truth. Tell him that he can have his truth, but that it doesn't fit with yours.

I'm glad you spoke with a lawyer. Your husband is going to give you an STD if he hasn't already. He is going to mess up your finances if he hasn't already.

Have you opened up an account or two in only your name and moved 1/2 the money to it? Close joint credit cards. You will be responsible for 1/2 of all debt that your name is on. He can begin to rack up debt just out of spite, and that is why you need to close joint cards.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

PatienceOut said:


> Trying to reply to all asked questions, thank you to anyone who replied.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



OK this thread was bad enough leading up to this point but now this revelation has just pushed it into the ridiculous. 

If some jerk or biotch cheats on his/her spouse, that BS deserves empathy, support and understanding. 

If they do a reconciliation with professional counseling, transparency and heavy lifting to repair the damage and years later the WS cheats again, then that BS support and guidance and encouragement to not be a doormat and to stand up for themselves and their own well being to move forward with their own life. 


But *THIS*???? 

*THIS* is a whole other realm. This is something altogether different and something for which you have your own share of accountability and responsibility. 

This is a lifestyle that you have supported and maintained. He is clearly not marriage or parent material and is a habitual cheater and lier and manipulator and is clearly a person of bad character but yet you have continued to pop out offspring and look the other way and continued to support and embrace this behavior so that you can keep your wedding ring and house in the suburbs and pretend to have a normal family life in the community. 


This will come down to a simple choice - either you will continue to be his "Bottom B!+ch" and the sugar baby that lives in his house and feeds his kids or you won't. 

If you don't want to live this lifestyle anymore then get a good attorney, file for divorce, get what share of the assets and support that you can and build a new life for yourself -

- or suck it up and live with the life and household that you have helped create. 

I truly am not trying to be mean or to put you down, but this is about good ol' fashioned responsibility.
You wanted the ring and the house and the kids and he piece paper that said you are married and you have knowingly accepted and supported this awful person in this lifestyle. Everyone, including yourself, knows that he is a walking, talking, smelly piece of crap complete with the peanuts and kernels of corn. And yet for 21 years you kept turning a blind eye to his affairs and kept pumping out kids with him. 

Take responsibility. Either you can live with this life or you want a different life. If you want a different life and don't want to be the "Bottom B!+ch" in his little circle of *****s, then lawyer up, get out and move on. 

If you don't want to go through that hassle, then make him another sammich and quite yer complain'n. 


Either way, take adult responsibility for yourself and your own life. 


It is obvious that this is the life he wants to lead and he is assuming that you will just go along with it and keep on truck'n. His assumptions are valid and legit for it is what you have been doing for basically two decades. 

If you want to change your life, then get out and change it. 

But if you want to keep your good looking, fit, high-earning husband and keep the kids under the same suburban roof then accept that he ain't gonna be no Ward Cleaver that comes home and reads the newspaper in the study and gives Wally and Beaver a lecture on how to be good people and do the right thing. He is going to be banging whatever other chicks he can get into bed and he is going to expect you to shut up about it and deal with it on your own time. 

So pick which way you want to go with this and go with it and pay your dues and put in the time and effort either way.


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## PatienceOut (Sep 21, 2018)

I took a few days away from this site to let what everyone has said sink in. There was a lot of hard truths to swallow here, but I thank you all for that. I have realized that I am in denial and that I need to be in therapy for my own issues with self-esteem and tolerating his behavior.

I just finished confronting him and he denied everything. He laughed and told me that he is her mentor (and now that he knows what evidence I have this is what he is telling everyone including his parents) and that the facebook posts were all some type of elaborate scheme that they both created to trick me. (which what????, sounds completely non-sensical) I don't believe him whatsoever. He had answers and explanations and excuses for everything. Tried to make it all sound normal and like I was the insane one. Called me abusive once again, over and over. Telling me that confronting him and "spying on him" is abuse and that no one agrees with me. Told me I am destroying my kids and that they all hate me. 

I am upset and mad that this went so far south. The upper hand I thought I had he has made into a joke. I still plan on filing but it was very hard not to get sucked into his blaming me for everything. 
I am incredibly hurt and devastated for the kids. He wants to divorce as he claims I am a "demon possessed" woman who is a horrible mother that should kill herself. Oh and abusive, and causes children to hate her. He had plenty of abusive things to hurl my way for me calling him a cheater and liar. 

Scared about the future and how ugly this is sure to continue to get. But I am relieved to have finally told him I know and ready to move forward. 

And OldShirt your post was really a wake up call and made me realize how passive I have allowed myself to be. I have been a passenger in his life for far too long and I know that I am accountable for some of his behavior in the past. Thank you.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Sounds like a narcissist, look up gray rock technique and use it. Start carrying a VAR with you. And most of all assume your life is going to get a lot better pretty quickly. You probably have no idea what you were excepting because you were doing it so long. Trust me after you morn you are going to be so much happier.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

What he's doing is gas-lighting you. Don't engage him.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

You didn't realize that you had signed up for Gaslighting 101, did you? Your H is a master in it.

I think counseling will be very helpful to you. 

You also need to find yourself a good divorce attorney and create a good plan. Your H is going to create a ****storm when you file. You had better get everything in order beforehand.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

PatienceOut said:


> I just finished confronting him and he denied everything. He laughed and told me that he is her mentor (and now that he knows what evidence I have this is what he is telling everyone including his parents) and that the facebook posts were all some type of elaborate scheme that they both created to trick me. (which what????, sounds completely non-sensical) I don't believe him whatsoever. He had answers and explanations and excuses for everything. Tried to make it all sound normal and like I was the insane one. Called me abusive once again, over and over. Telling me that confronting him and "spying on him" is abuse and that no one agrees with me. Told me I am destroying my kids and that they all hate me.
> 
> I am upset and mad that this went so far south. The upper hand I thought I had he has made into a joke.


Why are you trying to convince him that he is a cheater and a lier and horrible person?? He knows more about what awful things he has done than you do. 

It is not your job to convince him he is a cheater. It's your job to get yourself and your children away from a monster. 

This man is not only a cheater and lier and a horrible person, he is evil. 

You do not and will not have the upper hand. You cannot transform him into a good person. 

You can only get away from him. 

And that won't be easy. He is not going to let you just walk away and go out the door with half of the marital assets. He is going to do everything he can to harm you and make you miserable and make you succumb to his will. 

He will use the children to hurt you and he has no problem hurting them in the process. 

You are not going to be able to "nice" your way out of this. You niceness cannot offset his evil. 

You are going to have to enlist the assistance of the court, the police and a women's and childrens abuse agency. 

You are going to have to enlist the assistance of a lot of people and circle your wagons and be ready for a battle that will likely take years to fully settle and he will likely still be a reoccurring thorn in your side for life even after you are legally married, the kids are grown and he has remarried and has someone else under his thumb. 

Get a good, pit-bull attorney and ask for whatever assistance you need to stay safe and protect your children. 

This man *WILL* turn physically and financially abusive once he is challenged.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

sokillme said:


> Sounds like a narcissist, look up gray rock technique and use it. Start carrying a VAR with you. And most of all assume your life is going to get a lot better pretty quickly. You probably have no idea what you were excepting because you were doing it so long. Trust me after you morn you are going to be so much happier.


You will be happier a few years down the road and when you have broken free of him.

But it the short term it will get much worse and will get very ugly and possibly even dangerous. 

This man is evil and he will set out to harm you when you start to detach from him and come out from under his thumb. 

He will most likely turn physically abusive and violent when it soaks in that she is serious in leaving. 

This is going to require outside assistance and solid game plan from the outset.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Patience, the REASON he is so incredibly brazen and abusive is that you've set a stage of trusting him. Which has only emboldened him. Stop trying to deal with him. Go back to the lawyer and file the papers for divorce. If you're in an at-fault state, file for fault of infidelity. Get your financial ducks in a row. Get ready to hit him with divorce papers. Note that you may not end UP divorced, but legally you need the divorce papers in the legal system to PROTECT YOU. He's already shown himself capable of great harm to you, so this one thing HAS to be set in stone, in case you can't protect yourself and your kids because of his abuse and manipulation.

Once that's done, pack a suitcase of his stuff that he needs every day. Call his parents or siblings or cousins or friends and tell them that you are sending him to stay with him, that he's been cheating on you and you're done. Then let him know he has to go.

He'll probably fight it. Do NOT get into an argument with him about whether he did or didn't cheat. You'll never win that argument. Simply tell him you're done, you want him out, you've told his parents he's coming, and to get out. Here's your suitcase. Hand him the divorce papers if he's still fighting you.

He'll probably try to beat you down about this, tell you he's not leaving. If that happens, tell him that is his choice but you'll make his life hell if he stays and the kids will lose whatever respect for him they had left. 

If he starts ramping up the abuse, calling you names, threatening you, simply pick up your phone and call 911 and tell them you're in fear for your and your kids' lives.

Whatever you do, do NOT get into any kind of discussion with him. He's a master manipulator and you won't win. You'll end up crying and accepting blame, as he has conditioned you to do. Just stay calm, keep repeating the same things over and over: I want you gone, we are divorcing, your parents and family know, I want you gone, we are divorcing. If you want to talk, you can talk to me from your parents' house. I won't discuss anything while you are still here; I will simply let the divorce run through its course and you will end up leaving anyway.

I know this is scary, but you can do it. You must do it.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Damn, I missed the post from 10/5 or I would have been back sooner to offer support!

I KNEW confronting him would do ZERO bit of good and that it would hurt you instead of the other way around. Time for you to get angry, girl, get good and pissed off. You will need it as armor. You should be treating this like going into battle. Lawyer up, its time for you to take your life back. 

Please read up:

Gaslighting:
https://lonerwolf.com/gaslighting/

Blameshifting:
https://www.abuseandrelationships.org/Content/Basics/blame.html

Gray rock:
https://www.elephantjournal.com/2015/10/how-i-became-a-gray-rock-to-escape-an-abusive-relationship/


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

PatienceOut said:


> I was thinking that rather than confront him with it first, I go to his parents with all of this proof and tell them my next stop is to the lawyer to file if he does not stop all contact with her.
> 
> The thing is, Im not even sure that will work. A part of me knows he will just hide it better. But I really want to believe that he will feel bad and want to stop.


Don't even confront. Just leave.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Tell your kids everything he has done for your own parental survival. Your husband is evil. Tell your kids everything and leave him now.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

As mentioned a few times above if he gets physically abusive with you call the police and *press charges* the very first time. No accepting "it will never happen again" because it will continue to happen when he realizes he can get away with it. Just like all of the current behavior he is exhibiting. If you can afford to hire a PI to get pics it would be a great way to knee-cap him with the family and children threats, not to mention may be useful in divorce court ( which is unquestionably where you should be heading) depending on your state. He is saying these things because he knows they will cut you the deepest, not because they have any fact-based reality to them. You seriously need to talk to a shark attorney and use their services to navigate through this as quickly as possible. Stay vigilant and watch your six both figuratively and physically.


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

PatienceOut said:


> I took a few days away from this site to let what everyone has said sink in. There was a lot of hard truths to swallow here, but I thank you all for that. I have realized that I am in denial and that I need to be in therapy for my own issues with self-esteem and tolerating his behavior.
> 
> I just finished confronting him and he denied everything. He laughed and told me that he is her mentor (and now that he knows what evidence I have this is what he is telling everyone including his parents) and that the facebook posts were all some type of elaborate scheme that they both created to trick me. (which what????, sounds completely non-sensical) I don't believe him whatsoever. He had answers and explanations and excuses for everything. Tried to make it all sound normal and like I was the insane one. Called me abusive once again, over and over. Telling me that confronting him and "spying on him" is abuse and that no one agrees with me. Told me I am destroying my kids and that they all hate me.
> 
> ...


I'm really sorry that you've had your husband turn against you like this :frown2: But I hope that you now see what a vile and callous person he is, and that you deserve far better. I've never said this before, but take him to the cleaners. He's a disgusting human being who needs a major kick in the pants.

Don't let his cheap-shot verbal attacks get to you. His verbal abuse and gas-lighting is just a pathetic attempt to bully you into submission, so that you don't raise a stink about all the garbage he's pulled. And don't listen to any of his desperate attempts to reconcile after you've had him served with the papers. He's cheated on you multiple times, and continues to shamelessly rub his affairs in your face. He's shown his cards, he's not sorry. So don't even be tempted to think he is - regardless of what he says or does.

Please keep us updated


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

PatienceOut said:


> I agree that it is unreasonable for him to still be in contact with her. But he really makes me feel like I am in the wrong for thinking this way. He insist that I am trying to control him.
> 
> And I agree that he shouldn't be in contact with friends that are friends with her as well. I agree with all of that. Just not sure how to make him do it.
> Im guessing the only way to even get close to achieving that happening is by starting divorce process?


Yes - file and serve him!

And don't think about going back!

He's not even sorry he's been hurting you.

He will still be their father - you're not taking their dad away.

Gather yourself self respect and request every damn thing you can in those divorce papers! Make him sweat profusely!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

PatienceOut said:


> I took a few days away from this site to let what everyone has said sink in. There was a lot of hard truths to swallow here, but I thank you all for that. I have realized that I am in denial and that I need to be in therapy for my own issues with self-esteem and tolerating his behavior.
> 
> I just finished confronting him and he denied everything. He laughed and told me that he is her mentor (and now that he knows what evidence I have this is what he is telling everyone including his parents) and that the facebook posts were all some type of elaborate scheme that they both created to trick me. (which what????, sounds completely non-sensical) I don't believe him whatsoever. He had answers and explanations and excuses for everything. Tried to make it all sound normal and like I was the insane one. Called me abusive once again, over and over. Telling me that confronting him and "spying on him" is abuse and that no one agrees with me. Told me I am destroying my kids and that they all hate me.
> 
> ...


Patience, do me a favor.

Tomorrow morning, go online and look up your city and county and search "women's shelter." Get the number and call them. I promise you whoever answers will make you feel right at home, will take care of you, and will help you. 

You're being mentally abused and you're so far into it that you can no longer understand what normal is. PLEASE get professional help from these professionals, ok? LET them help you and guide you.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

He's NEVER gonna be honest so stop thinking confronting himwill change anything.

He has no conscience, no empathy.

Sounds like he's a sociopath or a narcissist. 

Look up both definitions and see if any of it applies to him.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

PatienceOut said:


> Is this proof?


It's enough proof to know he's very obviously cheating. Not sure about court however.

Do you have no-fault divorce in your state/country? If so, just serve him divorce papers.
If there is fault divorce, play dumb, don't question him anymore and just 'accept' it for now, while secretly gathering solid evidence. THEN divorce him.

Truth of the matter is, he's disregarding your feelings. He admitted to cheating already and "apologised" while making "justifications"? LOL There is NO excuse for cheating. NONE. ZILCH. ZERO!

No point getting him to fess up either, cheaters will lie and swear to their God even and then laugh about having fooled you, high fiving with their affair partner shamelessly and making you out to be a joke. They will twist it to make it seem like it's all your fault, that it's all your paranoia, even accuse you of cheating - projection. They will do everything shamelessly and with laughs.

Even when confronted with undeniable truth, they will only admit the tip of the iceberg. Google "trickle truthing". And continue to lie.

Your child is 18 correct? Perfect time to make him suffer the consequences of his actions. If you don't, you will continue to be a laughing stock to not just him and his affair partner, but all your 'friends' who know what they are doing. Cheating today is socially acceptable, that's the sad truth.

------------------

Also, when it comes to dealing with paranoia let me give you an example of what should be the standard:

In one morning my girlfriend called me because I actually slept in when I normally text her good morning. I was snoozing my alarms on my phone all morning and it was right next to my bed. When I picked up the phone I declined her calls but on her end it said "The person you are trying to call, is on another line, please try again" or something. She texted me asking who I was calling. I told her no one I just woke up to her calling me. She got completely paranoid the whole day. 

I told her calmly, that I understood how weird is this, but I'll show her that I'm telling her the truth the next day - I took it as my responsibility to prove to her that I'm not calling someone else, even though it was the truth but she doesn't know that, it's not what you know but what you can prove after all. I didn't accuse her of being paranoid for no reason, it's a reasonable red flag. She said that even if I show her my call history she won't believe me because anyone can delete it (which I found out to be true).

So the next day as I picked her up. I told her we're going to get to the bottom of this. I went to the very same alarm page I was on, and asked her to call me. She did right in front of me and guess what - same message - "on another line". I also offered to download this app in front of her to retrieve deleted call history. I was willing to go that far to prove to her that I was telling her the truth. Problem solved.

Now compare this to your husband, WTF?! Red flags in your face and instead of acknowledging your fears and insecurities which is a very human thing to do, he accuses you, twists the situation to make you out to be a bad guy. Don't have that standard. Raise it. You deserve BETTER.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Double post


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

PatienceOut said:


> I still plan on filing but it was very hard not to get sucked into his blaming me for everything.


That's the beauty of multi-tasking. You can still file the divorce papers to rid yourself of this utter POS while simultaneously dealing with his senseless verbal diarrhea. Just as long as you get the legal side rolling, that's ALL that matters. And who cares what this mental midget thinks - it's not like anything he has to say actually has any *merit*, right? He's a complete waste of hair and skin, so just consider the 'source.'

Divorcing this loser will be the best 180 pounds of worthless flesh you've *ever* lost.
.


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## BarbedFenceRider (Mar 30, 2018)

Yup, he views you as a piece of furniture, not a loving equal partner. Time to serve him his cake. File and blow up his world. He is obviously stuck in limmerance and in the affair fog has shut down any sense of normal behavior for him. 

He will manipulate and turn everything around against you...That is just blame shifting...We ALL have seen it before. Its old hat! But you know better! You have friends on TAM that will be glad to light you a NEW PATH. A path without infidelity. And where you feel good about yourself again. Because that is what truly matters....You feeling good about yourself again. You cannot be a good mother, a good friend and an effective partner when you don't have grounding in your life.

Start reading up on the 180! It will change your world and get you some of that moxey he has been stealing. Then, start journaling and keeping records of all that goes on. It will keep your head in the game and put an end to the lying real quick. You will see through him like saran wrap. Drink plenty of water and do NOT do anything self destructive (ie..drinking and medicating) It just screws everything up. Plenty of people here that will tell you that!

Also, just breathe....Your alive, you matter, and you ARE loved. You will get through this!

God bless.


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## SeattleWill (Aug 8, 2018)

Married people do not have opposite sex friends. If you and your spouse have friends, great. But one spouse has no business having opposite sex friends unless your spouse is an integral part of that friendship. Your husband is scum. Divorce him and don’t look back.


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## jewels465 (Nov 20, 2014)

SeattleWill said:


> Married people do not have opposite sex friends. If you and your spouse have friends, great. But one spouse has no business having opposite sex friends unless your spouse is an integral part of that friendship. Your husband is scum. Divorce him and don’t look back.




Completely agree with this. No married man should have any opposite sex friends. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

The reason he does all this is because he knows he can. You have let it carry on like this.

It's time to take your power back !!!

Past experience shows that in a battle of words he will always win. Change this dynamic and use action instead of words.

File now ...... go see a lawyer. This is your power!


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