# advice please



## sam13

I need some advice....my husband and i have been together for 7 years and have been married for 2....he went away for a guys weekend and wound up in the hospital for boozing too hard and rec drug use. Needless to say I was floored. I knew about the rec drug use just before our marriage. He promised me he would never do that again. I trusted him but I caught him in a lie about a year later. He got mad at me and left me in a restaurant by myself to finish my dinner. Anyways, he was seen in the hosp by psych who said that he is close to being labeled as an alcoholic as he is unable to have just 2 or 3 drinks....that he has to binge when he is out socially and has no control over it. She suggested seeing his PCP ASAP to take care of a potential issue. He made me promise to never tell anyone (family and friends) about that weekend away and the hospitalization. Over the course of the next 6 - 7 weeks he would be good during the week (before the hospitalization he would drink 4-6 beer 2-3 nights per week and then drink some on the weekends), but he would get wasted on the weekends. Like to the point of falling, coming home loaded unable to stand, putting himself in danger (driving drunk or driving as a passenger with a drunk driver). Everytime I brought up the fact that he needs to go see his PCP he would get pissed at me. It becomes really tough to talk to him as he is very defensive. So each weekend he would go out (I refused to participate in his drinking)I would be home up for hours on end hoping that he was okay. Then came a point where I had had enough. He came home loaded once again....I had had enough so I ended up telling his immediate family about his drinking and the hospitalization. They were concerned. He finally went to his PCP who said he is an alcoholic and needed to get involved with a program of some sort. we have other family members who are recovering alcoholics and he never talked to them. He never went back in 30 days to see his PCP like he was supposed to. Things became stressful between us. In addition to all of this i was upset that he never particpated in helping me get xmas gifts for the family, never went out for new years, never did anything for my milestone birthday etc etc all because of the booze. I seperated our bank accounts because i no longer wanted him spending my money on his booze or dipping. He started hiding his drinking from me and lieing about it. This infuriated me when I found out. We got into a pretty big argument. I started bringing up things from past arguments that we had never settled because his way of dealing with things is to just let them go and forget....not let them go and make a change for the better. Needless to say things have been miserable for me. He thinks that everything i am upset about are "insignificant trivial things". I just cant seem to get him to understand me. We didnt talk for a few days after the argument. We had another one a few nights later. I was just about asleep when he wanted to talk more. I told him I wasn't ready nor in the mood for that. He proceeded to disrespect my feelings and yelled at me. He was overwhelming and dominating to the point that i almost left the house. I sat downstairs shaking , angry, and fearful. I missed work the next day as I was so upset, sad, and hurt. and i looked aweful. I text him that i was so upset about how he treated me the night before. I told him that I was going to go to a therapist. I asked him to come and he said no initially. Later he said he would go if i would just let things go like nothing happened so that things would be normal. i said okay cuz i really want him to come with me. we have issues that need to be taken care of togehter. but of course he didnt come. thats okay in a way because i need to find out what i want. i'm so depressed and not sleeping well (either getting to sleep or remainin asleep). i have this emotional barrier up when i'm around him. i can't get close to him i'm so hurt. he doesn't seem to get it. he did arrainge for a local weekend away for my birthday to try to make up for it in a few weeks. he has been good about drinking the past week (although he still goes to bars or comes home on nights when i come home late and drinks a few by himself but at least he isnt getting drunk). i'm afraid that although he may be doing a couple of good things now that he really isnt changing and that the drinking will come back. i'm not sure what to do....i have another appt with my therapist this week. i cry most days....my job is the highlight of my week. my family and friends are worried. i'm worried that this will not work out. we have been thru similar arguments in the past but i usually give in and tell him that its my fault just so things will feel okay.....but i cant do that anymore. i wont....it makes me feel aweful. and its not right. 

am i being too concerned or negative? am i wrong for feeling detached from him and unable to be more than cordial with him? any thoughts or comments would be helpful.......


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## Prodigal

sam13 said:


> I just cant seem to get him to understand me.


And you won't.

Just like you don't go to the hardware store to buy bread.

Just like you don't try to train a pig to fly. You end up with a pig that (1) can't fly, and, (2) is p.o.'d at you for trying.

You are messing with his addiction. It's a sure-fire way to start a war. And it's a war you will never win. You can't reason with insanity, which in A.A. is defined as "doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result."

So what can you do for you? It is suggested in Al-Anon that you try six different meetings. If it doesn't work for you, then so be it. If I hadn't walked into the rooms and found lots of folks who understood what I was talking about, I would have been doomed to being sucked down by the equal-opportunity destroyer of alcoholism. It takes everyone down with it who get in its path.

It took me six years to finally leave an alcoholic spouse. It took me another year to fully accept he chose the bottle over me. In that time, I have learned to keep my side of the street clean and stay off of his. The three C's regarding alcoholism: we can't control it, we can't cure it, and we didn't cause it.

Stay with an alkie and watch them manipulate, switch subjects, turn the tables, blame you for everything from Original Sin to the economy, and make your life miserable. You can only save yourself. 

We want to fix them, but we can't. That is a tragedy. They make promises and break them again and again. That is a tragedy. Only they can fix themselves if they eventually hit bottom. Unfortunately, I've known many alcoholics over the years, and some of them only hit bottom when they were six feet under.


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## sam13

I thought about going to al-anon....but choose to go to a therapist which just started this past week....I will highly consider al-anon.....I hear ya on the false promises thing....I'm concerned because he is being good now with his drinking.....he's doing some chores around the house....and he is taking me away for my birthday next weekend which is nice....but I'm still fearful.....fearful that things will come around again.....that this isn't going to work out.....I'm growing more distant from him and at time I do resent him. I wonder if I made the right decision of marrying him versus marrying into a situation where our families get along well and from the outside we are portrayed as a good couple. But I'm just miserable. It's hard to talk about anything of importance when he doesn't understand me....when I know he isn't taking care of the boozing....when he hurt me so much.....I just wish I had he right answer right now!
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## sam13

And I'm very concerned about the past lies and hiding things from me....I have had issues regarding him lying in the past as well and we end up in big arguments ...... it really is hard for me to trust anything he says right now....I'm more than very concerned and I'm not sure how to act in front of him....

I want to know what u think of the ultimatum he gave me about 10 days ago....we had had a huge argument and I wasn't speaking much to him for 2 days....I asked him to go to a couselor with me and initially said no....a.little bit later he said he would go if I stopped being so cold to him.....so I agreed....I let him know everything about the appointment....date...time...where it was.....I took care of setting it up with the counselor....and of course he didn't show up....I'm hurt by that....like he doesn't really care about my feelings. The appt was this past Thursday...this weekend he was trying to get close to me but I don't want much of it because I'm still sad and hurt....I do talk to him but its more of like a conversation with a friend .... what do I do?
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## Prodigal

Unfortunately, he doesn't care about your feelings. What can you do? Get the focus off his problem for a moment and look at yourself. Ask yourself, "What am I getting out of this relationship?"

When you find that the pain of staying exceeds the pain of leaving, you will go.

And, by the way, his "cleaning up his act" is pure manipulation of you on his part. He'll act better, drink less, help out more around the house .... for awhile. As long as he can get you out of his face and off his back.

Until he starts a program of RECOVERY, he is going to continue making booze his number one priority.

You CANNOT, I repeat, CANNOT reason with an active alcoholic. He'll drink himself happily into laa-laa land, while you drive yourself nuts and end up with all sorts of stress issues. 

Like I said, you can't teach a pig to fly. I went to therapy for a year, and then my therapist suggested I also attend Al-Anon. Together, both helped me immensely. You have nothing to lose by giving it a shot.


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## lostnbroken

Hi Sam, 

I just posted a smiliar thread about my husband's drinking before I read yours. I was trying to find out if he's an alcholic. He, like your H, would binge when he drinks. They have very similar traits, such he lies to me when he goes out to drink and gets very defensive when I try to talk to him about his drinking. He would also promise to drink less but in the end he breaks the promises. Sometime I would challange him for not touching any alchole for a month. But he can't do it. One week is the most he can make it. He has also started to feel that I am trying to control him but what I've been trying to do is to make him see that he may be drinking too much.

I never met any alcholic nor to be around one. I have no idea how much drink is too much. He hasn't been hospitalized yet for his drinking. But I just don't feel right about his drinking.

When I talked to his parents, I was just shocked of what they said to me: "Me and my wife used to drink like that when we were his age. And we turned out to be fine", dispite that they said they were concerned about his drinking as well the day before..... 

He's so loving and caring when he's not drinking. I love him dearly for that. But his drinking does cause a lot of tention between us, which somertimes it hurts to feel that I was to blame for his drinking....

Since your H has been told by a therpist that he's close to be alcholic, would you mind reading my thread and maybe tell me if my STBXH can be close to be an alcholic or maybe already is, based upon your experience with your H?


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## sam13

Thanks for all the advice and thoughts....we went out to dinner the other day and he bought me a nice bracelet and dinner which he never does......things went fine ....he realized how he needs to get everything in his life more in check...he wants to do more things with me....he wants to be healthier and lose 20 lbs...AOL sounds good right?....I did ask one question ...I asked if he has had his followup with his pcp like he was supposed to....his pcp about 5 weeks ago to my H that he's got a problem and he needs to go seek out some hepp....so far he hasn't done that but he has been relatively good with the booze with the exception of one week....Idk....I'm hoping that this is a turning point for the better but something tells me otherwise.....he wants to go hang out with some of his buddies out of state in a couple of weekends....he asked me to go but I really don't want to....in my head I'm very critical of his drinking and him not doing anything about it....should I go? Should I drink with him? I def do not want to enable things.....I can't help but think that he is going to slip up esp with the weather getting warmer......sigh.....
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## sam13

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## major misfit

Prodigal is speaking the absolute truth. Please pay careful attention here. Your husband WILL go back to doing things the way he had been. You can take it to the bank. He's not doing what is necessary to stop drinking. And that's the only choice an alcoholic has...stop drinking. He will not be able to get it "under control". He has to STOP. He will only continue to slide farther downhill and take you with him. 

He's attempting to manipulate your view on things by being a "good boy" for the time being. And you, wanting his behavior to change SO BADLY is buying right into it. You might as well brace yourself for the next time, b/c it will come. I'll eat my shoe if it doesn't.


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## sam13

Okay...so yes I know that he is being good just to make things smooth between us....and I know things will eventually hit the fan soon....esp since I did mention one small thing about his drinking at dinner the other night and he got defensive and aggravated.....so my question is how do I set boundaries without sounding controlling.....or can I even set boundaries....or do I give him an ultimatum like he did to me (except he didn't keep his side of it)....like its either the booze or me....
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## sam13

I appreciate the responses everyone.....any more advice on establishing boundaries?....and if that is even helpful in this type of situation
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## Freak On a Leash

What do you mean by "establishing boundaries?" 

You won't be able to change him or control his drinking. It won't work. What you can do is decide what YOUR boundaries are. Will you hang out with him while he drinks? Will you drink too? Will you put up with any of his abuse? Decide what YOU can or won't put up with and take it from there. It's all you can realistically do or expect. 

But if you think that you can tell an alcoholic how to act, how much to drink or not drink, etc, etc. Think again. They have to get there on their own. No amount of nagging, cajoling, begging, pleading or threatening will change him if he doesn't want to change. 

Ball's in your court. You have to decide what YOU will put up with and how you will act towards him if/when he continues his drinking. Or you can decide to walk away and have nothing to do with him. That's about all you can do.


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## Prodigal

In complete agreement with Freak/Leash on this. Boundaries are for YOU. For example, I told my exAH (ex alcoholic husband) if he didn't stop drinking, I would move out. This was after three rehabs, two DUIs, and the loss of his job due to progressively worse drinking.

That was my boundary. When I made it, I had to be absolutely sure that I was going to follow through on enforcing what I said. 

I left him 16 months ago. I didn't look back.


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## sam13

thought i would post an update on things....its been a roller coaster ride. i have a tough time being "normal" with him because i am hurt by all of this and i cannot believe he doesnt see my point(s). but i know that alcoholics never will. 

he did end up going out of state with his buddies and he most likely had way too much. the next day at my parents house he feel asleep twice and he told me that he was up til 4:30 am. so most likely he got plastered. the week after we went to a family party. i did not want to go and decide at the last minute that i would because it was the right thing to do. he had at least 6 beers and 3 shots before i went to bed at one and then he was up til 3:30ish. about midnight he came up to me to show me the five bottle caps in his pocket indicating the number of beers he had had. i asked him why does he bother showing me. i know i have no control....i try my hardest not to count his drinks and be judgemental....and then he pulls that....i think he is looking for my approval like he is doing good. 

the other night on a tuesday he went bowling with his buddies. he ended up driving home with a friend cuz he obviously had too much. he got home and i was finishing up some stuff around the house and i could def tell he was drunk....not beligerantly but he was nonetheless. i didn't argue about anything beause i know i cant. i ended up taking a shower and went to bed. he tried to be intimate with me and i was so furious by not only this night but just everything. i cannot fathom being intimate with him, nevermind having drunk sex with him.....ugh how meaningless.. so i sat up and told him that i wasn't comfortable doing that. he was furious saying things like its a big problem that he can't even touch his wife without her moving away....that he can't take this anymore....that he is thinking of moving out. he asked me what i thought and i told him that on one hand him moving out would relieve some stress but on the other hand it will not resolve our issues. we were up til almost 2 am talking/arguing about stuff mostly because he gets very perseverative when hes had a few too many. i had to cut the conversation and sleep in the other room. but he did agree to go to a MC. the next few days he was quiet.....he only answered my questions like how was your day with a short response like it was okay. he ignored all my phone calls and texts. he did not end up moving out. he just gave me the pure silent treatment for the rest of the week. 

on saturday morning he went to the hardware store and came home and after almost 2 years of asking him he finally did a small project in the kitchen that i have been asking him to complete. i thanked him....he said nothing. in the afternoon he left the house without a word. he texted me about 5 hours later saying that he was staying at a buddies house. he came home early in the afternoon on sunday and wanted to talk....i wasn't really into it. another 2 hour long talk/argument. i was quiet and listened to what he had to say. stuff like "this cant go on much longer"....that he is "uncomfortable in his own house". he wanted to know what i thought and i told him that he wont want to hear my thoughts. but he kept pushing my buttons. i reiterated again what i want out of a marriage and relationship and that i want to raise a little family. but that i cannot have children with him at least at this point. we are far too unstable. and its not like im getting any younger nor is he (we are both early 30s). i told him that it has gotten to the point of either he chooses me or the booze and he just laughed and said thats not fair to him. he said he wanted to make a contract....that i start being more warm and friendly with him and he will limit his booze. he wanted me to put a limit on it and i refused for a good ten minutes. well we ended up settling on something.....but it was dumb....what was even dumber was that when i gave him the booze limit he tried to negotiate that higher. his consequnce is that if he goes over it he will go to IC. and i guess mine is that he will drink. pretty fair huh? i told him that i dont understand how come he goes out with his buddies to socialize and he more often than not has too much booze...he says that that is what him and his buddies do....when i asked him about the night he went bowling and why he couldn't just have a couple or none he never could answer my question. he comes back with the question of well why can't i, whats so wrong with that? btw the next morning he had to walk/run to go get his car to go to work. to me that just isnt normal....maybe for a 20 year old but not a 30 year old. maybe i expect too much or am too critical but this is my life too and ive always expected the best from myself. 

he and i both grew up in alcoholic families. and we are both dealing with this from opposite ends of the spectrum. no question when we were younger we would party and drink too much and just have fun. but over the past 2-3 years i have become much more focused on life things.....i will still go out and have fun...might have a little too much to drink a couple of times per year. he made the statement the other day that he is the same person that i met 6 years ago and that is scary to me. i always expected like most people that as you grow older there are some minute changes as you adapt to becoming an adult but your core values pretty much stay the same.....this issue is really breaking us apart. we go to a MC next week. i'm not sure what to think....any thoughts suggestions or comments are always appreciated.


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## ScaredGuy

Read my other "homecoming" post...I am in the same spot you are. But rather than simply loving company, I'll tell you what I overheard in my wife's last day of rehab.

Alcoholics go through the five states of grief, not necessarily in order. The 5 stages are:

1. Denial and Isolation.
2. Anger.
3. Bargaining.
4. Depression.
5. Acceptance. 

Your husband is in stage 3, bargaining. He probably bounces around (most alcoholics do) and might be in denial, and also anger too. But based on what he is saying and doing to you, he is clearly also bargaining. He wants you to forget he has a problem so he can go back TO HAVING A PROBLEM. 

I know all this because I'm living pretty much the same situation as you. Only I feel mine is beyond repair - no trust = no relationship. My wife has shattered my trust for the last time.

No one can tell you when it is too much, that is something you have to decide. Read my other posts...this is my "too much" point for me. Ask yourself "Am I OK with continuing to live like this?" If the answer is "no" then you must get out. If you can bear it, or if you can hold out for the kids or whatever, ask yourself "how am I going to survive this?" Wrecked cars, drinking and driving, awful fights - because she is drunk, financial instability, lack of trust...not the best sex in the world can erase that. Hence, my breaking point.

Best of luck to you.


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## sam13

Thanks ScaredGuy....I wish you all the best too in ur situation....I agree that only I know when I've had enough....I'm leaning on the edge of it as we speak but we hopefully will have an appointment with a MC this week. Don't know how much help it will be but ill give it a try. 

My IC has def started to get into me and my deAlings with everyone who has been an alcoholic in my life....from my dad to my mom and to now my husband....its crazy the effect that this has all had on me and I'm just realizing some of it. It's kind of a downed but I'm glad we are talking about it and that I can move onto bigger and better things.....once I find out what will happen with my husband....

Thanks for your post
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## sam13

So we went to the MC this past week. My H showed up very late so we didn't have much time....I don't feel any better or worse from going....the MC asked my H if he thinks that I'm overheating about his drinking and of course he said yes.....then the MC asked him if my H thinks he has a drinking problem and he didn't answer yes or no....he examined about why he drinks the way he drinks....anyways I wrote down a few things from the session that my H talked about from his perspective so that I can bring those issues up and give my perspective....the killer is that my H has already broken the contract that he made....he went out last night and got drunk again....he came home at 2 am wicked loud....so I woke up. He wanted to know where do I want to be and what makes me happy....I told him part of what makes me happy is when I can trust the people around me....he ignored my answer and I told him that we can talk about it later....MC again next week.....one step at a time right?
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