# Processing Past Hurt



## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

My story is similar to many that have posted here. I've tried to be a good husband but my wife of 13 years resents me and now is refusing to have sex. Doesn't say ILY and doesn't wear her wedding ring. I've read through many of the posts and I think I get the "Manning Up" concept. It is something I will have to try.

However, in the past when I have tried a cooling off approach it seems to get no results. Granted what I was doing was probably closer to a 180 or shut down. It feels like if I pull away she never is there to fill the void. It's like I don't exist for days, weeks etc. 

When I ask her about this (I know thats probably against the Manning Up rules) she says she was just giving me time to be by myself and process. 

Anyway, that brings me to my main topic. She says that she is bitter, resentful and disappointed in our relationship. These things are making it impossible for her to be sexually interested in me. But when asked she's not really able to explain why she feels that way. She talks a lot about having to process the pain and hurt of the relationship. How she didn't get a chance to be mad at me 5 years ago during an argument or feel the full pain of something I said 8 years ago so now she wants to sort of "relive" those moments to process them. 

Is this healthy? She claims that processing past pain is good, but it just seems to be building more resentment. I can't change the things I said and did, most of which are things that I apologized for at the time. Keep in mind none of the things she has mentioned are what I would call "major" offenses. No cheating, no physical or verbal abuse, no substance abuse.

I've been a selfish jerk at times, I've had trouble communicating my feelings in a healthy way, I've made mistakes but does it really help to takes two years to process the pain from those things?

A little insight would be helpful. Thank you.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

Balance,
You've made mistakes, same as all of us, but how do you think you rank on really trying to understand and meet her needs? Does she do the same or better?

Resentment can arise for reasons that are justified and realistic, but it can also arise in a very unjustified manner, to be honest.

You have to be honest with yourself, I believe. Answer these questions and approach it based on the answer. Manning up and 180 can help only in the sense of keeping yourself fair and sane, if you are enabling an unhealthy balance in the relationship. If you've been an avoider, you really need to address this and meet those issues head on. She will respect this.

It took my wife quite a few years to realize that she was giving in to an unhealthy resentment. I called her bluff, which was hard and fit only my particular relationship.

Really, there are some great men and women who really understand this much better than I, but Friday tends to be a slow evening on this site. Hopefully, they'll chime in too.


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

Thank you for your response.

I really would have thought I ranked pretty high on knowing and meeting her needs. We went through the Love Language book together, that helped in understanding her needs. We've gone to MC they focused on helping me express my feelings better. That helped me communicate with her better. We did MC for a year and a half at the end he told us we we would rank as happier than 80% of couples.

But now I'm not so sure. Loving women don't just become bitter and resentful for no reason.

Would you say that the Cooling off approach is not recommended for a situation where resentment is the issue? Most things I've read and people I've talked seem to suggest trying harder to be more helpful, more loving, more connected.

I printed out the Love Buster and EN forms and was thinking of doing those with her. How should I approach that? Seems like an awkward thing to jump right into.


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

Also, what do you mean you, "called her bluff." I know you said that was specific to your situation but can you give me an example of what that looked like?


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Balance...

Us men can't comprehend our wives mind and the way it works.

Best I can surmise the female mind is like a Roledex that logs every slight you ever did... once it fills up they shut down.

Then it takes years for them to see new behaviors in place by you in order to wipe out enough pages of that roladex to allow you back into their life. And then start logging new entries again.

My wife mentioned something on our wedding day over 18 years ago as being an issue! Women don't forget anything. Yes most of what they say about slights is ridiculous! None the less its big to them... have to let them process it... and they are slow about it. Its crazy. Drives you insane.

Best advice...

Become a better man and be prepared for it to take years.
At a point where you are at the end of your rope... give her the realty check of her life!

that may work..did in my case took exactly two years.
I don't think my wife would have worked through it without my reality check to her. Timing was perfect.

Good Luck and remember patience is a virtue.

Be upbeat and be happy always around her.
It can get better eventually... it's hell to go through though.

I think it was worth it. At least I'm happy again.


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

tryingtofigureitout

Thank's for the encouragement. It has been kind of rough the past two years. So, just wait it out and continue to learn how to be a better husband? 

I don't want to be insensitive to her pain. I do want her to process her emotions and get to a place where she can really feel true forgiveness, but is there a point where you have to say enough is enough, lets move on.

What did your Reality Check look like?


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

BALANCE said:


> tryingtofigureitout
> 
> Thank's for the encouragement. It has been kind of rough the past two years. So, just wait it out and continue to learn how to be a better husband?
> 
> ...


Mind you this was after two years of busting my butt....

Also after a night where my wife disrespected me.

It started out....

Issues that need addressed…. I expect permanent solutions starting to occur this next month November.

Then went into specifics about what I desire from her.

Also listed some of the same stuff she threw in my face two years ago (Pot calling the kettle black)

Ended with... if all this sounds crazy feel free to leave me.

Took her an hour to process it... she showered and voila my wife somehow returned.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Honestly, this thread is a pleasure to read because for men who think they don't understand women, it seems to me you understand them very well even if it is from the outside looking in.

I was exactly like your wives and it took me a year of ranting and complaining about past hurts, almost separating only to go back to languishing in past hurts. My husband would change and then complain occasionally that he was disappointed I didn't validate or recognize the changes. Well...you've hurt me so much in the past!--I'd say. I've been married 15 years, my list was pretty long. I think in mid-life women are especially focused on evaluating their lives and can be harsh on their husbands.

Although, I agree that if you stick with it long enough the old will be replaced by the newer and better. At that point, hopefully, your wives are able to take a look at their part in it all. This is what happened to me.

My husband is now a better, more understanding version of the man I fell in love with. I've always admired him but there were certain things I couldn't forgive, certain behaviors I refused to accept. He still slips up but he's made drastic changes and this made me recognize that he values our relationship. This was very important for me. He also started to validate my feelings whereas before he would act as if they were ridiculous.

We're still a work in progress and things are not perfect but they are better. Recently he put his foot down with me in regards to something I saw as trivial but he called me on it. I thought about what he was saying and I said to him flat out, "You're right. I'm sorry." He actually responded with shock and confusion, "Are you serious or f'ing with me?"

I was serious. It's such a relief to not feel so alone in the relationship now.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Trenton said:


> Honestly, this thread is a pleasure to read because for men who think they don't understand women, it seems to me you understand them very well even if it is from the outside looking in.
> 
> I was exactly like your wives and it took me a year of ranting and complaining about past hurts, almost separating only to go back to languishing in past hurts. My husband would change and then complain occasionally that he was disappointed I didn't validate or recognize the changes. Well...you've hurt me so much in the past!--I'd say. I've been married 15 years, my list was pretty long. I think in mid-life women are especially focused on evaluating their lives and can be harsh on their husbands.
> 
> ...


Trenton...

So it is a Roledex? LOL
You wives need to switch to a digital notepad so that you can erase the old stuff better.

I think my wife like yourself is finally seeing that I truly have no ulterior motive than just loving her. Still can't understand why it took so long for her to come around.. it almost seemed to me the only time she focused on it was when I made her focus on it. The rest I just felt like spinning my wheels. 

Just recently she said "You don't have to do that for me you know I'm independent an can do stuff by myself" I was a bit taken aback as I was just helping her. I responded "You know why I do it don't you" she said "Yes".

I think in a snapshot that is the issue... women don't validate what their husbands do...in fact criticize being nice? But deep down I think she saw how she came across. 

Well guess what...I don't do for her as much anymore.

There is something she left out on our counter that doesn't belong four days ago that I would have instantly cleaned up and put away... but she's a big girl now she can put it away. She got it out, she can put it back.

I also stand up to her anytime she upsets me (Like your H did)... before I'd just take it, maybe sulk but now she gets a talking too anytime she upsets me. She almost always defends her view then comes to her senses and apologizes. Its refreshing.

I'm slowly winning her back.. I actually feel sorry for females that their minds are wired this way. I know my wife has no idea how much pain and torment she has caused me in the last two years... not in what she does BUT in what she doesn't do. I was almost like she never understood that this isn't normal behavior and the benefit of simply moving on.

As a guy... I can forgive all but the hugest slights almost instantly because I logically can see that the past really doesn't matter. Only the future... when I get my sex life back i will instantly let go of any resentment as that serves no purpose. I just wish my wife was wired the same way... I've been a model husband for two years. I keep trying because I love her and I made a vow to her. For better or worse. She is worth my best effort. I will not fail her.

I really hope one day my wife does like you did and take the time to really look at "Her part in it all" she needs to do that. If she can find time. My wife has been rather harsh on me over the past two years. Shes in for a big 180 if things don't change soon.. clock is ticking hope she realizes it. She won't like my 180. It's all up to her at this point.


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

Thank you, Trenton, for your perspective. Your story does sound very similar. 

I have made some pretty big changes over the last 3 years, but I do have those moments, like your husband, where nothing I do seems to count. Many of the habits she was so hurt by are things that I have improved on so why live in the past? 

I guess I'm just feeling tired and worn down. I've put so much effort into being better just to have her withdraw more and throw past stuff in my face.

Trenton, was there a defining moment when things turned around for you? Is there something specific, like the Reality Check, that I should be doing to "wake her up?" Because, frankly, this open ended "it could take years" talk is depressing me. Ugh!

Thank's everybody for the replies. It is encouraging just to talk with people about the situation.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Trenton...
> 
> So it is a Roledex? LOL
> 
> ...


I always call it a database because I store information under different paths and whatnot for easier, more succinct retrieval processes. 

My husband still does plenty for me, don't get me wrong, but I do plenty for him as well. If your partner starts to feel as if they're no longer important, that too will be a problem (or at least it would be for me).

My suggestion would be to start doing the right things and stop doing the wrong things she doesn't care about, not to stop doing things for her.

For example, juice box on counter...don't touch it (you're not her parent).

Surprise her with flowers or something else she's been wanting to express that you think and care about her?...Yes!

My husband and I have a sex life that has never waned for more than a month or two when I was at my most angry to the point where I wanted to squish his head (both heads-haha) beyond that we've always been at about 3-4 times a week. In looking back I think the reason for this is that my husband is tremendously good at woo'ing me. He has always made me feel special, thought of and known. He is an amazing gift giver and lover because he obviously cares about how his partner responds and I've always understood that he gets me.

Recently, I'm getting that he actually loves me and believe it or not, I think I refused to believe that before (insecurity).

You sound resentful but you have to step inside your wife's head and get her so that she understands that and has a chance to get you. The truth is that you're both very much responsible for where you are today because you are a couple.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

BALANCE said:


> Thank you, Trenton, for your perspective. Your story does sound very similar.
> 
> I have made some pretty big changes over the last 3 years, but I do have those moments, like your husband, where nothing I do seems to count. Many of the habits she was so hurt by are things that I have improved on so why live in the past?
> 
> ...


My husband began to keep saying this, "What I don't understand is why you can't get how much I love you. It's like you have no idea."

You know what I was thinking in my head?..."If you loved me you wouldn't do these things to me."

My light bulb moment was when I got back into work and recognized the different pressures he was facing. I realized how selfish I was being in the relationship and how hard it must have been for him to juggle my intense needs with his work demands and pressures he felt to provide for our family. Recognizing that this was his struggle that he was unable to articulate to me, allowed me to feel empathy directly for him and then I began to believe and pay attention to his words.

Then I allowed myself to recognize that he does love me but I'm not allowing him to. That's when things started to get better.

So...if your question is how do you wake your wife up into realizing that you're trying to change what hurts her, that it's her that you love and are trying to get things right for?

In my opinion, keep saying it. Don't hide it or play games. Keep letting her know through actions and words. She has a man here who loves her and sees her and values her and she'd be an absolute fool to think there was anything better than you out there.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Trenton said:


> I always call it a database because I store information under different paths and whatnot for easier, more succinct retrieval processes.
> 
> My husband still does plenty for me, don't get me wrong, but I do plenty for him as well. If your partner starts to feel as if they're no longer important, that too will be a problem (or at least it would be for me).
> 
> ...


Well my situation is a little more extreme.... sex only twice this year and only five times last year. So yea I have current resentment. Plus we only averaged 15 times per year mostly.
I know I was responsible for at least half... I owned up to it and changed on a dime. I do plenty for her and like I said what she left out was similar to a juice box example.

I do flowers on occasion yet rarely even get a thanks.

It boils down to "it seems" like I do all the work in the relationship in terms of "intimacy". That is a problem. I believe I do enough to make my wife feel special... yet it almost never gets returned 

I think I do pretty well considering how much valid resentment I have internally. Its her... she even said that a while back.


I'm at a critical point... having given her until November to figure it out. So she still has some time I really hope we have sex tonight (we both NEED to its been 4 months... not all her doing some my own doing)... I could really definitely use a good lay. Last night I didn't even try as we went out and she was exhausted when we got back really late... I have a heart. I do put her first always.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Well my situation is a little more extreme.... sex only twice this year and only five ties last year. So yea I have current resentment. Plus we only averaged 15 times per year mostly.
> I know I was responsible for at least half... I owned up to it and changed on a dime. I do plenty for her and like I said what she left out was similar to a juice box example.
> 
> I do flowers on occasion yet rarely even get a thanks.
> ...


Why do _you _think you have sex so little? What was _your _half that you owned up to?

I'm just curious to see what fault you think you have in her not wanting to have sex. Is it possible that it's actually a problem with her?

What parts of you do you believe she fell in love with?

I'm asking because I think if you magnify those and dim down the behaviors that don't prompt a reaction (like flowers and juice box clean up) then she might respond.

Do you work outside of your home? Distance can make the heart grow fonder. Is there a hobby or focus that you've always wanted to work on but haven't had the time? Find the time and take it away from her time but remain mindful of her and watch her reactions and responses to your behavior changes--never be cruel or spiteful or dishonest. It will separate you farther apart in the long run but do begin paying attention to your own desires and allowing yourself more me time.

I look at it like this...both people in the relationship deserve to have their needs met on a basic level. Sex a few times a year doesn't come close to meeting your needs. 

I'm not sure what her needs are but they're not being met either since she's obviously not as invested in the relationship as she should be. It's hard to offer advice and feel confident it is appropriate without talking to both sides, you know?


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Trenton said:


> Why do _you _think you have sex so little? What was _your _half that you owned up to?
> 
> I'm just curious to see what fault you think you have in her not wanting to have sex. Is it possible that it's actually a problem with her?
> 
> ...


Thanks Trenton for taking the time to respond....

She said two years ago i was Innattentive at times, self centered and in my own little world.... I was also drinking a little much and took my frustration out by yelling at my boys when they screwed up. I looked in the mirror... I realized I had started to coast i our marriage. I can see how the yelling was an issue.

So I instantly reversed all of those behaviors... stopped drinking that very night. Set out for two yeas becoming a better me.

Why doesn't my wife have sex ?

My best guess...

She is tired a lot, she gets up at 4 and in bed by 8:30
She doesn't have a huge drive as evidenced by our 15 times per year average throughout the past 18 years. I can count on both hands the number of times more than weekly.
She still hold on to past resentments.
I'm a little passive and sometimes don't even try. Rejection hurts so I try to wait for opportune times in my mind... still get rejected mostly.
She has enough social interaction to replace the sex... if that makes sense.

That's it in a nutshell.

I'm beginning to believe Catherine that I simply need to stop doing anything for her since she has not done anything for me in terms of my needs as a man.

Don't get me wrong... our marriage is GREAT apart from this issue. We get along, we talk, we laugh, we do things it by all outward viewing is a GREAT marriage. Until it comes to sex!

Like my username says "I'm trying to figure it out"


She did mention get a hobby...so I joined a social hiking club that will start in a few weeks for six weekends. We only really interact on weekends and Friday nights because of work.


Why she fell in love?
I'm a good looking guy
I'm smart
I'm funny
I am a committed family man
I was stable when she met me
I think she wanted to save me... she picked me out and I wasn't "finished" yet kinda nerdy
She transformed me into me.
I care for her deeply
I brought her nice flowers and had a new car.

Her needs,

Well that's what I've been working on for two years... she appreciates what I do. I should have a nymphomaniac based on what I do for her. But don't. I pretty much know women since I researched the hell out of this topic for two years straight... I do all that stuff that should work. I guess it is working just slowly.

So I don't quite get it.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Thanks Trenton for taking the time to respond....
> 
> She said two years ago i was Innattentive at times, self centered and in my own little world.... I was also drinking a little much and took my frustration out by yelling at my boys when they screwed up. I looked in the mirror... I realized I had started to coast i our marriage. I can see how the yelling was an issue.
> 
> ...


Either she doesn't believe you and thinks you putting on an act and is waiting for the shoe to drop or she doesn't forgive you for the pain you caused her when you were the opposite of who you are now.

Why did you fall in love with her?


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Trenton said:


> Either she doesn't believe you and thinks you putting on an act and is waiting for the shoe to drop or she doesn't forgive you for the pain you caused her when you were the opposite of who you are now.
> 
> Why did you fall in love with her?


Well like I said she picked me.... I wasn't head over heals but we had sex really soon. So I thought well this is nice as I hadn't had a steady girlfriend I like forever. We soon moved in together.. I took her to Hawaii three years later and she proposed to me. By that time I was ready and would have likely asked her in a few months...I'm a bit of a procrastinator It just worked from the get go we are opposites but we have what the other doesn't. Almost everyone thinks we are a great couple together. It just seemed so easy up until a couple years ago.

My wife is a fantastic woman.. actually the finest lady apart form my mom that I ever met. She is amazing... and gets more beautiful with age... that's why i love her. If you met her you would like her...she is just that way. So talented its scary. The bad... she is a grudge holder big time. Mostly a tomboy at heart... normal girly things like jewelry, flowers not a sure thing with her. She is a go getter... just like when she picked me and asked me to marry her. Very busy lifestyle.


As for your two scenarios I can only buy the second one. She herself has said that I've fully changed and that she really appreciates the change "nothing more you can do..it's me". She has said nothing but that she is "trying" and wants to stay married.

She probably need IC... but won't go. She won't even go to the doctor...she's overdue for that.

BTW a lot of her gripes were plain BS....some weren't so i don't think I was ever that bad to deserve this treatment.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Well like I said she picked me.... I wasn't head over heals but we had sex really soon. So I thought well this is nice as I hadn't had a steady girlfriend I like forever. We soon moved in together.. I took her to Hawaii three years later and she proposed to me. By that time I was ready and would have likely asked her in a few months. It just worked from the get go we are opposites but we have what the other doesn't. Almost everyone thinks we are a great couple together. It just seemed so easy up until a couple years ago.
> 
> My wife is a fantastic woman.. actually the finest lady apart form my mom that I ever met. She is amazing... and gets more beautiful with age... that's why i love her. If you met her you would like her...she is just that way. So talented its scary. The bad... she is a grudge holder big time.
> 
> ...


Tell her these things and work on making her feel safe and secure in the relationship. I think she'll then be able to let go of the past and start looking at your future but tell her that too...that you want to have an amazing future together and want to start creating that now.

It seems you're pretty much on that path with her now anyway but it's taking longer than you'd like. Hang in there, it seems you two have something worth working for.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Couldn't help it - short hyjack 

Trying - i am stalking you - may i suggest a revision to your post - your wife has a great marriage you don't in my opinion. I'll make a guess that this is the marriage your wife sees - good looking, intelligent, driven guy, serves her, and ask for nothing but promises. He taking a sex holiday, to her great relief and get this, he is taking up a hobby on the W/E, the only time she sees him for an extended period of time. He brings in the bread and she is sure she can milk this for another 10 years if she throws him a bone (pity sex) every 2 months and promises to do better. 

You seem to be a strong guy but your stregth may be brittle if you are unprepared for a future without your wife. You put yourself on the line for your wife but you don't seem to have stored any reserves for yourself. It's not you now - it's your wife's problem, she will not forgive. 

It is crunch time - she has to forgive you. You can go to the next step try MC for 6 months and after exhausting all avenues to a good marriage, you may have to let go or live out your days being her servant. there are kids so I understand and greatly admire your commitment. 

When and if you get out of your marriage, the new you will find love. You are nowhere ready to consider that but there is that. sorry to keep at you about this but the info about the hobby floors me couldn't help pointing it out for your consideration. My opinion, although you did not ask, tell her you will take up a hobby when you're ready but now you want to be with her when she is around. Ask her why she is concerned about a hobby but not that you are starving . 

******* END *******
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Couldn't help it - short hyjack
> 
> Trying - i am stalking you - may i suggest a revision to your post - your wife has a great marriage you don't in my opinion. I'll make a guess that this is the marriage your wife sees - good looking, intelligent, driven guy, serves her, and ask for nothing but promises. He taking a sex holiday, to her great relief and get this, he is taking up a hobby on the W/E, the only time she sees him for an extended period of time. He brings in the bread and she is sure she can milk this for another 10 years if she throws him a bone (pity sex) every 2 months and promises to do better.
> 
> ...



Thanks Catherine for caring I really appreciate hearing from women,

I know I'd be OK without her I have all the tool necessary to survive and find plenty of women to have sex with... but I don't want that. I want my wife. I am strong and that's why I put up with it. Plus to be there for my two boys...they need me. At least they appreciate and love me , they tell me all the time.

I think I'll give her 90 days from my "reality check" I still feel that that alone might have been enough. Hope we have sex tonight. The celibacy got cancelled two weeks ago... no more holiday. We had fun danced stayed out late last night...she was exhausted.

At 90 days I will insist on 6-months of MC... if not 180 until she leaves me or figures it out finally. She won't like my 180


Like I said there will be change... I'm not acceptable to a sexless marriage. She knows that.

The hobby was for me.. she mentioned it a while back... I thought why not I could use getting out of the house... I like hiking and photography. So its win/win. She seemed to light up when I told her about it... so worth a try

I know I do too much... just the way I am. I don't need much myself.
I don't think I'm losing myself... I'm pretty grounded. It's just this needs fixed so thats my main effort right now. For both of us.

It is crunch time...definitely.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

BALANCE... sorry for the thread jack I hope you can learn something from my situation. These ladies know their stuff.


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

Quick thought on deadlines: There's a negotiating principle that 90% of negotiations happen in the last 10% of the time allotted, which I think applies to relationships. T2FiO - it's been two years of positive change you've put in with no result. How is another 90 days going to change anything, other than delaying the inevitable confrontation. 

Love is very hard because on the one hand, to keep her attention, she needs to realize she could lose you, on the other, you love her and don't want to lose her. It seems like such a repeating pattern. 

If it were me, I'd address it sooner than later, and simply state what you've stated here: "I love you, I feel neglected, as much as I don't want to, I'm considering my options. I've made radical changes and they've gone unacknowledged, so I can only think you don't care. I'm tired of investing my love in a woman that doesn't reciprocate." Let it hang there.

My marriage didn't get better until my wife truly knew she could lose me, now things are really good.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

seeking sanity said:


> Quick thought on deadlines: There's a negotiating principle that 90% of negotiations happen in the last 10% of the time allotted, which I think applies to relationships. T2FiO - it's been two years of positive change you've put in with no result. How is another 90 days going to change anything, other than delaying the inevitable confrontation.
> 
> Love is very hard because on the one hand, to keep her attention, she needs to realize she could lose you, on the other, you love her and don't want to lose her. It seems like such a repeating pattern.
> 
> ...


Thanks...

I did confront her two weeks ago with my reality check letter....and said I wanted solutions by November. In a way I stated almost exactly what you mentioned... I called her out and told her she's free to leave. She seems happier now.

So when is a good time... in lieu of positive change to say to her what you suggested? Or did I already do that.

I was thinking 90 just to see where we were heading... should it be shorter?

Keep in mind... the last month I've seen drastic changes for the better apart from sex.
It's been two years of mostly little change and one month of some positive change. Two weeks of definite change. November isn't up yet.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> Couldn't help it - short hyjack
> 
> Trying - i am stalking you - may i suggest a revision to your post - your wife has a great marriage you don't in my opinion. I'll make a guess that this is the marriage your wife sees - good looking, intelligent, driven guy, serves her, and ask for nothing but promises. He taking a sex holiday, to her great relief and get this, he is taking up a hobby on the W/E, the only time she sees him for an extended period of time. He brings in the bread and she is sure she can milk this for another 10 years if she throws him a bone (pity sex) every 2 months and promises to do better.
> 
> ...


Maybe I'm missing something here? She has to forgive him or else?

Sure he'd likely find another but not another like her. A woman who he has shared history with, who he admires and who he wants to be with and who does love him but has yet to understand that he's starving.

Maybe I need to read up on his history?

Perhaps it'd be more advisable for him to take on this viewpoint...She is the one he will spend the rest of his life with and he should try every attempt at getting her to understand that this is exactly what he wants. Less focus on sex, more focus on the "US" that is them.


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Thanks...
> 
> I did confront her two weeks ago with my reality check letter....and said I wanted solutions by November. In a way I stated almost exactly what you mentioned... I called her out and told her she's free to leave. She seems happier now.
> 
> ...


For me a good time to check in would be today. You could tell her, I've seen positive changes over the past 2 weeks, which has encouraged me, sex is still an issue for me. I don't feel desired, or attractive to you, and I'm not prepared to live the rest of my life feeling that way. What can we do fix this?

Ladies, how should he state this - firm but not aggressive.


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

Trying2figureitout said:


> BALANCE... sorry for the thread jack I hope you can learn something from my situation. These ladies know their stuff.


No worries. It does seem like we have some similarities in our situation, although you seem a little farther down the road. Good learning for me.



seeking sanity said:


> Quick thought on deadlines: There's a negotiating principle that 90% of negotiations happen in the last 10% of the time allotted, which I think applies to relationships. T2FiO - it's been two years of positive change you've put in with no result. How is another 90 days going to change anything, other than delaying the inevitable confrontation.
> 
> Love is very hard because on the one hand, to keep her attention, she needs to realize she could lose you, on the other, you love her and don't want to lose her. It seems like such a repeating pattern.
> 
> ...


One of my good qualities is that I am fiercely loyal. I'm also pretty passive, I've actually never dumped a girl. My wife knows this and I'm not sure she would ever really feel like I would have the guts to leave. So at the end of the day she has all the power. I've been rejected so much and told what an awful husband I am so many times that my self esteem and confidence are shot. If I do try to give her an idea of how this is hurting me she seems to understand but never makes any real changes or if she is changing it's slow going.

Honestly I'd settle for a little ray of hope. Something that made me feel like we are going toward a road of repair and not down the road toward separation and divorce.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

BALANCE said:


> No worries. It does seem like we have some similarities in our situation, although you seem a little farther down the road. Good learning for me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is sweet and actually I like loyalty as a characteristic but it is easy to take advantage of. It's actually quite rare these days.

My question for you is...why would you stay in a situation where you were unhappy? Loyalty is a wonderful trait but if it is hurting you and you are not finding any resolve it's important to remember you only live once and there is someone out there who will appreciate and not take advantage of your loyalty.

If your answer is insecurity (even if you don't want to blurt it out here) then I'd suggest taking some time discovering yourself while you still remain loyal to your wife. You do deserve to live the life you've imagined.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

seeking sanity said:


> For me a good time to check in would be today. You could tell her, I've seen positive changes over the past 2 weeks, which has encouraged me, sex is still an issue for me. I don't feel desired, or attractive to you, and I'm not prepared to live the rest of my life feeling that way. What can we do fix this?
> 
> Ladies, how should he state this - firm but not aggressive.


I would leave out the part about not feeling attractive to her because it might make her consider that she doesn't find him attractive when that was not the case prior to him pointing it out. In other words, it could leave open an excuse for her not to take another step in that direction because it's easier for her not to at this point and she's become accustomed to that pattern.

Maybe something more along the lines of...Things are getting better between us and I'm happy about this but I want to make love to you and begin connecting with you on a physical level too.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Trenton said:


> Maybe I'm missing something here? She has to forgive him or else?
> 
> Sure he'd likely find another but not another like her. A woman who he has shared history with, who he admires and who he wants to be with and who does love him but has yet to understand that he's starving.
> 
> ...


No no, what I meant was that after two years of concerted and apparently successful efforts to fix the things that made her fall out of love, it seems time she gave him her decision. Mostly because he is falling apart (read some of his other post). She says she is happy with the changes. 

He needs boundaries too. He won't find someone like her but that may not be enough to live in limbo for much longer.


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

Trenton said:


> This is sweet and actually I like loyalty as a characteristic but it is easy to take advantage of. It's actually quite rare these days.
> 
> My question for you is...why would you stay in a situation where you were unhappy? Loyalty is a wonderful trait but if it is hurting you and you are not finding any resolve it's important to remember you only live once and there is someone out there who will appreciate and not take advantage of your loyalty.
> 
> If your answer is insecurity (even if you don't want to blurt it out here) then I'd suggest taking some time discovering yourself while you still remain loyal to your wife. You do deserve to live the life you've imagined.


I have been putting some effort into discovering myself. And I've begun to push back against some of the things she claims about me that I know aren't true. She has claimed that I don't know how to love or show kindness or tenderness and that I've never had any friends or cared for anybody. Now when she says stuff like that I tell her that she does not have the right to tell me how I feel and that I won't believe those lies anymore. That has seemed to work as she has lessened that sort of talk.

As far as staying in a situation that is hurting me, I suppose that is why I posted here. I needed a bit of a sounding board to see if I was being too loyal and hurting myself or if it really is worth forging ahead at any cost. I did make a promise after all, and it didn't include the line "I'll stay with you as long as you are making me happy and meeting my needs."

We still talk and spend time together (although we don't go out very much) I can still make her laugh, we don't fight a lot. I acknowledge that I need to be better showing her love in a way that she feels it the most. I'm OK with growing and maturing together, I just can't understand the reliving the past hurt part. How am I ever supposed to move forward? I'm bound to say something stupid down the road, how long will that be on the record?


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

BALANCE said:


> I have been putting some effort into discovering myself. And I've begun to push back against some of the things she claims about me that I know aren't true. She has claimed that I don't know how to love or show kindness or tenderness and that I've never had any friends or cared for anybody. Now when she says stuff like that I tell her that she does not have the right to tell me how I feel and that I won't believe those lies anymore. That has seemed to work as she has lessened that sort of talk.
> 
> As far as staying in a situation that is hurting me, I suppose that is why I posted here. I needed a bit of a sounding board to see if I was being too loyal and hurting myself or if it really is worth forging ahead at any cost. I did make a promise after all, and it didn't include the line "I'll stay with you as long as you are making me happy and meeting my needs."
> 
> We still talk and spend time together (although we don't go out very much) I can still make her laugh, we don't fight a lot. I acknowledge that I need to be better showing her love in a way that she feels it the most. I'm OK with growing and maturing together, I just can't understand the reliving the past hurt part. How am I ever supposed to move forward? I'm bound to say something stupid down the road, how long will that be on the record?


Balance... 

Couple more words of advice....

Accept what your wife says as fact... it is from her perspective. Best thing you can do is learn to listen to her every word as GOLD... women talk to connect. When you discount her thoughts (no matter how outlandish) you sever a connection. As you travel this path you will learn women's minds. Stop the resentment building. The idea is to pull her towards you.


As for the saying stupid things later part... disarm her

Let her know that you are on a path to learn from your mistakes . Let her know as you find new leanings that you will attempt to integrate them into your relationship. Tell her that you know ahead of time that you will make mistakes and may act somewhat weird. However each time you make a mistake you will learn from it. Ask her for her patience while you take this journey of becoming a better man.


Remember there is no quick fix... it's a long process.
It takes time for her to process past resentment... she's a woman not a man.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> No no, what I meant was that after two years of concerted and apparently successful efforts to fix the things that made her fall out of love, it seems time she gave him her decision. Mostly because he is falling apart (read some of his other post). She says she is happy with the changes.
> 
> He needs boundaries too. He won't find someone like her but that may not be enough to live in limbo for much longer.


I'm not falling apart... those posts were mostly just my weird sense of humor. I'm very grounded and fully committed to my family and my wife. i deleted those other posts as they were po-ing some other posters.

I tend to get a little outlandish on message boards... its fun to me to see reactions.
I'm mostly happy that is what counts... things are looking positive.

I really just want it fixed and to help others here if I can.

I can wait longer for my wife.. I owe her a lot. She really is a good wife in all other ways.


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

Thanks for the feedback everybody.

But let me re-focus this thread onto a specific question.

If resentment is the reason why my wife is distant and not interested in a sexual relationship should I:

1. Cool off, give her space to process the hurt. This would include no pressuring for sex, no initiating physical contact, no dates and generally avoiding any serious conversations about the relationship, ie. go into a standby/roommate mode until she feels comfortable moving the relationship forward.

2. Take a more aggressive approach. Go on a lot more dates, increase (non-sexual and sexual) physical touch to try and reconnect. Talk about the issues from the past so that she can process the hurt, ie. go into super loving husband mode and help her remember why she married me.

Thoughts?


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

BALANCE said:


> Thanks for the feedback everybody.
> 
> But let me re-focus this thread onto a specific question.
> 
> ...


Depends on the time and depth of resentment...

In general I think this is how it should go for best effect... 

Listen to her complaints
Back off
Heartfelt apology letter
Promise to learn and become a better man (Personal journey)
Learn all about women
Update her on progress
At about 6 months ask her on date to discover the new you and don't push for sex..ok to do non-sex touch
Keep dating and let her come to you

I do think most women need at least six months to two years to process their emotions in terms of resentments.... you need to create new positive memories that are consistent to replace the old bad ones.

It's a long process... no quick fix!

So I think you are at 1. on your list I wouldn't bring up the past only now and future.
You have to change into a better you... she's done with the old you.

She needs to see consistent efforts.


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

BALANCE said:


> Thanks for the feedback everybody.
> 
> But let me re-focus this thread onto a specific question.
> 
> ...


Of those two choices, then B is by far the better strategy. Dates, non sexual touch, connecting are all good ideas. You may want to read some of the "nice guy" threads. It sounds like you may fall in that camp.

Basically your challenge is to create your own life. Dr Glover, who wrote No More Mr Nice Guy has a concept about making your life your cake, and your woman your icing. I think what some of the others are saying is make your own cake some more - hobbies, male friends, your own life. Treat your wife well, but at the same time start to spend less time with her. Really, your whole paradigm is around what you can do to get her to meet your needs. She doesn't seem to want or care about meeting your needs, so why reward that.

The reason I didn't choose A is because the backing off is about manipulating her to try to get your needs met through withdrawing. If your going to withdraw it's with the goal of emotionally disengaging to point you feel okay about leaving.


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

And as for the past resentments, what I'd say is: I've apologized and tried to make amends for past ways I've hurt you. I've made changes and continue to make changes. Right now I feel this is about punishing me. I have my own laundry list of past hurts too. If you want to dwell in the past then I don't see any future with you.

And at some point you just get pissed off and say "I've f*cking had it was this BS." Unless you did something really bad, the past resentment is unhealthy and mean.


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Depends on the time and depth of resentment...
> 
> In general I think this is how it should go for best effect...
> 
> ...





seeking sanity said:


> Of those two choices, then B is by far the better strategy. Dates, non sexual touch, connecting are all good ideas. You may want to read some of the "nice guy" threads. It sounds like you may fall in that camp.
> 
> Basically your challenge is to create your own life. Dr Glover, who wrote No More Mr Nice Guy has a concept about making your life your cake, and your woman your icing. I think what some of the others are saying is make your own cake some more - hobbies, male friends, your own life. Treat your wife well, but at the same time start to spend less time with her. Really, your whole paradigm is around what you can do to get her to meet your needs. She doesn't seem to want or care about meeting your needs, so why reward that.
> 
> The reason I didn't choose A is because the backing off is about manipulating her to try to get your needs met through withdrawing. If your going to withdraw it's with the goal of emotionally disengaging to point you feel okay about leaving.


We are coming up on the 2 year mark in january. That would be around the time that she was begining to be openly resentful. I have been putting a lot of extra effort into this past year to be a better husband. On our anniversary trip in June she asked if we could take a break from sex (crushed). We have had sex twice since then with a few other sexual interactions.

Since then I have reconnected with some male friends, started a new hobby, lost 25 pounds and even changed my "look." it's a little thing but I figured anything to get her to look at me differently. I read a lot about being a good husband and how to have a good marriage. I've talked with my pastor, my father-in-law, a counselor and a few other close friends about my situation just to get an outsiders perspective of what kind of husband I am.

There is no one BIG thing that I did. Just little selfish acts and bad habits here and there throughout the marriage. I have apologiesed for those things and have told her that I will do better. She aknowledges that things are better and for the most part our day to day life is peaceful. We talk about our day, laugh together and share thoughts about the future. Major disagreements/fights are like once every 3 months or so and even then they are usually resolved (by the end) in a calm, loving manner.

I will continue to push myself to be a better man. It sounds like I might be in for at least another year of this before I see any major fruits of my labors. I suppose I can deal with that, although my genitals disagree wholeheartedly.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

BALANCE said:


> Thank you for your response.
> 
> I really would have thought I ranked pretty high on knowing and meeting her needs. We went through the Love Language book together, that helped in understanding her needs. We've gone to MC they focused on helping me express my feelings better. That helped me communicate with her better. We did MC for a year and a half at the end he told us we we would rank as happier than 80% of couples.
> 
> ...


"Loving women do not become bitter and hold resentment for no reason." That statement can sum up why it took me 22 years of loneliness before I asked for divorce. Its not logical. You are thinking like a man, my friend. Resentment isn't always this easy. Resentment is a pinprick. A brief, painful hurt that keeps a woman from reconnecting now, even though she realizes that she INTENDS to reconnect at some later date. But let her keep feeling that pinprick over the course of a few years, and it becomes a fixation. She becomes an unwitting victim of a fixation, because in her mind, she is convinced that you are fully aware of those feelings within her, and your continual, insufficient attempts do not measure up to the amount of resentment that builds, because they contain mistakes, or periods where you lose focus. Never will, unless she reaches a place where something shakes her into seeing that she is following a diversion, and needs to focus more on what SHE is doing to love you.

Balance, Trenton is giving an account that I would dream to have in my own relationship, where the wife realized that she also had to just let go of some of the resentment. However, for some reason, it is so deeply ingrained in my wife that she hasn't gotten beyond the point of seeing that it was wrong to perpetually focus on resentments. And she even said that most of those were unfounded, because she was expecting an unrealistic perfection. But her mindset is still inner-focused, on new resentments.

I called my wife's bluff, so to speak, by telling her that she was right. I never really heard a kind thing about me or our relationship. She agrees that 99% of her feedback was negative, and about 90% of all of our discussions were about things that were wrong - and I was really, really trying to be a good listener and responder to her needs. So, I told her that 22 years is more than enough to prove that our marriage was utterly broken, and a mistake. I wanted a divorce. I needed to be alone. Frankly, this floored her, and set off many, many weeks of arguments. She'll swear up and down that I should've known that I was an awesome husband. That I should've known that we had a great marriage - she just thought a woman should be safe to tell her husband of all of her fears and needs for validation. 

No guy is a saint - we're far from it. When I hear of Trenton's feelings that her husband is coasting, I know there were times I did. But every time I realized that I was, I reconnected, and took out pen and paper to try to come up with a plan to fix it going forward.

In the end, though, your wife has to reach a turning point. You will see it. When something small happens, she'll shrug, maybe smile, and tell you its okay. She will let you inside. 

You can keep trying. I'm not sure how long you've been married, and I know that no two women are the same, but I tried harder, and harder for 22 years.. The only question that matters is, does your wife try? If she's not trying to understand who Balance is, and what your needs are, then you are in a relationship of one. Her.

Unlike some on this site, we had a great sex life. But this was because we are both able to disconnect this from the other part of our life. 

I think distance and maybe even more trying can help, but the key component of this needs to be an open discussion of the fact that you will not sit by the tracks and wait for a train that is never coming.

If I don't answer your post quickly, or if you want to aim a question at me, please feel free to PM me.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

BALANCE said:


> We are coming up on the 2 year mark in january. That would be around the time that she was begining to be openly resentful. I have been putting a lot of extra effort into this past year to be a better husband. On our anniversary trip in June she asked if we could take a break from sex (crushed). We have had sex twice since then with a few other sexual interactions.
> 
> Since then I have reconnected with some male friends, started a new hobby, lost 25 pounds and even changed my "look." it's a little thing but I figured anything to get her to look at me differently. I read a lot about being a good husband and how to have a good marriage. I've talked with my pastor, my father-in-law, a counselor and a few other close friends about my situation just to get an outsiders perspective of what kind of husband I am.
> 
> ...


I don't know if you should let it go another year.... I'd start pushing the issue if you already put a year in.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Read your other thread about her coming to bed in the nude or wearing something skimpy.

So ... she has told you that she resents you, but can't or won't state why. She cites things that happened years ago. She's not wearing her ring, and is making 'power' plays by getting into bed next-to-naked or fully unclothed and pointing out what a sh!t you are for trying anything because she has clearly pointed out that she doesn't want to have sex with you. Does she talk at all about what needs to happen between the two of you, or is she playing the 'figure it out for yourself ...' game?

That about it?

Let's just jump into the worst case scenario first. Please keep in mind this is a possibility ... not a certainty, but you would be remiss to simply ignore it.

She's having an affair. She's already engaged with another man, and is taking active steps to distance herself from you ... specifically by bringing up crap that happened years ago. It's a rationalization technique to justify shifting her sexual interest away from you and onto another man. Same goes for not wearing the ring, not talking to you and even going to bed in the nude while stating sex is off limits. 

Not saying this is the case ... but seen the case enough times to know that this is a possibility. Other things to look for; very guarded with cell phone, lots of time on phone or online, steps out to do errands or goes out a lot more frequently than the norm. Just pay attention.

Less, worse case ...
She is engaged in passive aggressive persecution. She has lost her respect for, and attraction to you, and she is in the process of sh!t testing to you to convince herself that you are no longer a suitable partner.

You outlined:



BALANCE said:


> If resentment is the reason why my wife is distant and not interested in a sexual relationship should I:
> 
> 1. Cool off, give her space to process the hurt. This would include no pressuring for sex, no initiating physical contact, no dates and generally avoiding any serious conversations about the relationship, ie. go into a standby/roommate mode until she feels comfortable moving the relationship forward.
> 
> 2. Take a more aggressive approach. Go on a lot more dates, increase (non-sexual and sexual) physical touch to try and reconnect. Talk about the issues from the past so that she can process the hurt, ie. go into super loving husband mode and help her remember why she married me.


If she has lost respect and attraction, 'super loving husband mode' is the kiss of death. It actually reinforces why she ISN'T attracted to you.

You need option 3 ...
which looks more like option 1. Be aware of YOUR behavior around her. Don't be needy. Don't be whiny. Don't fly off the handle. Stay upbeat and in control of yourself even, and particularly, when she is trying to get a negative response from you. INVITE her on more dates, and if she declines, make plans for yourself and go out anyway ... happily. Less interactive, but no less engaging. If she wants to have a conversation ... listen. Do not ask her to discuss the relationship, but if she brings it up, participate ... but reread the second sentence above.
Boundaries ... have them. If you don't know what they are, learn about them and enforce them. Boundaries sow the seeds of respect. There is a difference between being passive and being a doormat.

Try to see the big picture. It's easy to focus on whether or not your spouse is f*cking with you by coming to bed looking sexy, but insisting that sex is off the table ... but that isn't the issue.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Trenton said:


> My husband began to keep saying this, "What I don't understand is why you can't get how much I love you. It's like you have no idea."
> 
> You know what I was thinking in my head?..."If you loved me you wouldn't do these things to me."
> 
> ...


My question is will these words really work, or is an outside event necessary to deliver the message. By your own admission, it looks like you did not get the message your husband was trying to communicate until you got out into the work place. Would you have heard his message if that had not happened? What could your husband have done to better communicate that message? I suspect this poster and a lot of other folks would find that helpful.


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

Deejo said:


> Read your other thread about her coming to bed in the nude or wearing something skimpy.
> 
> So ... she has told you that she resents you, but can't or won't state why. She cites things that happened years ago. She's not wearing her ring, and is making 'power' plays by getting into bed next-to-naked or fully unclothed and pointing out what a sh!t you are for trying anything because she has clearly pointed out that she doesn't want to have sex with you. Does she talk at all about what needs to happen between the two of you, or is she playing the 'figure it out for yourself ...' game?
> 
> ...


Thank you for your input. You're right there is a bigger issue. I am going through the "No More Mister Nice Guy" book right now. Boundaries have definitely been an issue for me. I have tried to improve but now that i'm going through this book I'm not sure I'm even doing it right.


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