# lingering questions in my mind



## sancheharri

hello everyone,

i discovered evidences of an affair a couple of years ago but my cheating wife just confirmed it about 6 months ago. the usual anger, arguments, drama, etc...tried MC but stopped bacause i feel being pressured to accept that i was part of the reason for her 4-month sexual affair.

my cheating wife is evasive and defensive when being questioned. she insists she's already being honest and truthful with her answers but i feel she's misleading me to hide the real picture, or perhaps she's still in denial.

i'm asking for your opinions since i feel i can't get the whole truth from her.

several questions i can think of right now -

1) she says she didn't have any feelings with the guy, they treated each other as buddies during the affair. that's why she was able to let it go easily. she even told the guy it was just sex. - BUT she said she cuddled to him after having sex for the first time, and she felt "they bonded" when they had sex.

2) she says she didn't exert effort to seduce him, she was just being friendly. - BUT she admitted "she entertained" his advances, she had conversations and flirted "harmlessly" back at him, allowed the guy to be alone with her in her room. 

3) she says she didn't enjoy the sex. she felt dirty and cheap in one of the encounters. everytime they had sex she just laid there and let him do all the work - BUT she admitted she did somewhat enjoy the first time, and the guy tried to "pleasure her during the third sex. she went on to bang him "5 times only".

4) she says they used condoms everytime they had sex. - BUT based on her words, it seems all the encounters are spontaneous (during work, lunch breaks, after work, early morning)

5) she says didn't set-out to have an affair with him although she found him attractive when they met. they were just "good friends" or acquaintances. - BUT she admitted fantasizing about him way before their first sexual encounter.

6) she says she didn't care what the guy felt for her or what he thought of her.- BUT she said she had sex for validation and to feel attractive and sexy.

7) she says she's not a "sl*t". - BUT she insists the guy was just an acquaintance, and blurted out during an argument that "...i wish i could've been paid as well...i became so cheap..."

8) she said she's not into FWB. - BUT she did have a sex affair with "just a friend".

9) she still believes and feels that the guy was "true and honest, that the guy didn't just use her for sex" . - BUT she admitted that the guy didn't stay overnight or spent much time with her, didn't invite her for a decent date, didn't call or sent messages. just the usual "buddy" relationship.

10) she said she stopped the affair when the guy started comparing and complaining about his wife, and the affair was somewhat becoming "serious". - BUT she now says she stopped the affair because "she felt nothing good is coming out of it, her expectations were not met."

these are just some of the many questions in my mind, very confusing and draining. 

if i can't get rational answers from her, i'm hoping i can find some help in this forum.

TIA guys!...


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## Robbie1234

You are giving too much power to your wife in this situation.She is the one who should be fighting to keep you but it seems to be the other way around.If she had no feelings​ for the om ten she is a **** for ****ing him.You remind me of myself the first time I caught my wife cheating.I got full disclosure and checked on her occasionally,it took her ten years to cheat again and I caught her first time.I packed her bags for her myself.


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## arbitrator

*Your W is simply cake-eating, trying to use any possible reason to justify her heartbreaking behavior toward you!

I just hate it when a counselor of any kind gets in the corner of a cheater, trying to make the betrayed spouse out to be the villain! You don't need that!

Immediately execute "the 180" and visit with a good family attorney to assess your rights for you!

Also have yourself thoroughly checked out by your MD for the presence of any STD's!

It's time to literally give this cheating skank "the air!" You deserve far, far greater out of life!*


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## sancheharri

thanks, guys. yes, i get your points. right now, i'm confused. divorce is on the table, but i'm frozen. a lot of things going in my mind. badly need answers or rational opinions about her confusing statements. i need to have a sensible perspective as to what really happened and the truth. 

if she can't give out the whole picture of her affair, at the very least, i'm willing to settle for reasonable opinions, or alternative answers to some of these questions above. i'm really confused with what she is saying. her statements seem to be completely opposite to other words that came out of her.

she says she wants to work it out, but i can't seem to move on without answers to these questions in my mind.


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## naiveonedave

you can't rationalize this. What she did is not logical.

Having sex with people usually does lead to bonding. It is why having a sex life helps married couples - it bonds them, through chemicals released in the brain during.

If she is still in contact with this dude, it will most likely happen again... and again.

She should be trying to move mountains to get you to stay. You need to impose some consequences on her - inform the OM wife, her parents, your parents, a trusted mutual friend or two. She needs to ditch the current job.


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## Tatsuhiko

If you read a lot of the stories in here, you'll find that a lot of your suspicions have merit. WS's rarely tell the whole truth. It's unusual for a woman to participate in an affair without deeper feelings for the AP. It's unusual for condoms to be used. "Four months" can mean "several years". Very telling that her stories and explanations have changed over time. Your need for more information is very common in BH's and very valid.

Definitely keep divorce on the table and don't let her get complacent. If you have children together, get them DNA tested to verify that they're really yours. Let her know you are doing this so that she understands the full ramifications of broken trust. 

What work has she done to figure out why she did this in the first place? What work has she done to guarantee that this will never happen again? Because if the underlying causes have not been addressed, there is no way you should trust her again. As you know, your MC was wrong to suggest that you're at fault for the affair. There are a thousand ways to address problems in a marriage. Going out and screwing another man is neither a legitimate nor productive one. Your wife needs IC, not MC, to figure out what is broken in her.


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## Robbie1234

First of all four months is probably eighteen months.lf she didn't like sex with him when did she keep ****ing him.She loved the attention and would still be doing it if he hadn't broken up with her.She has had more than one partner and is only admitted to what she has to. Hit her with divorce papers because you will never be able to trust her again.


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## StillSearching

Robbie1234 said:


> First of all four months is probably eighteen months.lf she didn't like sex with him when did she keep ****ing him.She loved the attention and would still be doing it if he hadn't broken up with her.She has had more than one partner and is only admitted to what she has to. Hit her with divorce papers because you will never be able to trust her again.


Listen to this! Having experienced it myself Robbie is right. Chances are she will trickle out the truth over many years because she will have forgot the lies shes told you.
Divorce her, start over. This will make your life miserable if you stay.

You will ALWAYS have lingering questions.


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## zookeeper

Are there answers to these questions that would somehow change what she did and the hurt is caused you? I doubt it. You are staring down a rabbit hole that (in most cases) only gets deeper and more convoluted the further you go. 

You should be asking yourself some questions right now. Thing like:

- What do I want from life?
- How important is trust in my marriage?
- Am I the kind of person that can ever move past such betrayal or will it haunt me for the rest of my life? Will I be triggered with doubt and panic every time she is late coming home or her phone rings at an odd hour? Will I imagine her with the other man when we have sex? Etc.
- Do my wife and I really have compatible values if she is capable of such selfishness and callous indifference?
- Are my feelings for her based upon her true self or an illusion? 

You get the idea. For me, I can't imagine any response to infidelity short of immediate and permanent ending of the relationship. I might be able to forgive a cheater in time, but I would not sacrifice my own quality of life by subjecting myself to the never-ending doubt and anxiety. Once someone is proven to be a liar and untrustworthy, how would I ever completely trust them again? That's no life for me. 

There are some people that claim to be able to repair the trust and salvage the relationship. Maybe you are one of them. Maybe not. This is the most important thing you need to ponder and be brutally honest with yourself. You'll never know the truth about her and what she did. You can know the truth about yourself.

Good luck in this unfortunate journey.


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## Lostinthought61

Its time to put on your big boy pants on, and act like man. First and foremost you set the questions and the rule of engagement not her, she does not get to make the rule...whether you move on with your lives or not is your decision

the first thing to say is that Divorce is on the table

2. did you expose her affair to others...you need to shame her to her family
3. Expose him to his wife...if she refuses to give you the name...go directly to divorce
3. If she works with him she has to leave her job
4. she has to sit down and write a timeline to everything 
5. complete transparency no passwords no holding the phone, no deleting text, no special apps. 
6. get tested with STD both of you
7. and she accepts a polygraph as well 
8. couseling 

if she says no to any of these divorce.....

If your afraid to do this then accept that you are going to be cuckold spouse for the rest of your marriage.


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## AtMyEnd

Unless you can get the answers you want, either from her or from digging into emails, texts or whatever without her knowing, you'll never be able to trust her again. You need to ask yourself, what kind of life will you have if you're constantly second guessing everything she tells you.


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## straightshooter

sancheharri said:


> hello everyone,
> 
> i discovered evidences of an affair a couple of years ago but my cheating wife just confirmed it about 6 months ago. the usual anger, arguments, drama, etc...tried MC but stopped bacause i feel being pressured to accept that i was part of the reason for her 4-month sexual affair.
> 
> my cheating wife is evasive and defensive when being questioned. she insists she's already being honest and truthful with her answers but i feel she's misleading me to hide the real picture, or perhaps she's still in denial.
> 
> i'm asking for your opinions since i feel i can't get the whole truth from her.
> 
> several questions i can think of right now -
> 
> 1) she says she didn't have any feelings with the guy, they treated each other as buddies during the affair. that's why she was able to let it go easily. she even told the guy it was just sex. - BUT she said she cuddled to him after having sex for the first time, and she felt "they bonded" when they had sex.
> 
> 2) she says she didn't exert effort to seduce him, she was just being friendly. - BUT she admitted "she entertained" his advances, she had conversations and flirted "harmlessly" back at him, allowed the guy to be alone with her in her room.
> 
> 3) she says she didn't enjoy the sex. she felt dirty and cheap in one of the encounters. everytime they had sex she just laid there and let him do all the work - BUT she admitted she did somewhat enjoy the first time, and the guy tried to "pleasure her during the third sex. she went on to bang him "5 times only".
> 
> 4) she says they used condoms everytime they had sex. - BUT based on her words, it seems all the encounters are spontaneous (during work, lunch breaks, after work, early morning)
> 
> 5) she says didn't set-out to have an affair with him although she found him attractive when they met. they were just "good friends" or acquaintances. - BUT she admitted fantasizing about him way before their first sexual encounter.
> 
> 6) she says she didn't care what the guy felt for her or what he thought of her.- BUT she said she had sex for validation and to feel attractive and sexy.
> 
> 7) she says she's not a "sl*t". - BUT she insists the guy was just an acquaintance, and blurted out during an argument that "...i wish i could've been paid as well...i became so cheap..."
> 
> 8) she said she's not into FWB. - BUT she did have a sex affair with "just a friend".
> 
> 9) she still believes and feels that the guy was "true and honest, that the guy didn't just use her for sex" . - BUT she admitted that the guy didn't stay overnight or spent much time with her, didn't invite her for a decent date, didn't call or sent messages. just the usual "buddy" relationship.
> 
> 10) she said she stopped the affair when the guy started comparing and complaining about his wife, and the affair was somewhat becoming "serious". - BUT she now says she stopped the affair because "she felt nothing good is coming out of it, her expectations were not met."
> 
> these are just some of the many questions in my mind, very confusing and draining.
> 
> if i can't get rational answers from her, i'm hoping i can find some help in this forum.
> 
> TIA guys!...


Basically, you are getting no answers and no healing because your wife does not believe for a second that she is going to not be able to intimidate you into letting it go. She cheated on you yet she is in total control. You have two choices.

(1) accept what happened and be a "good boy"
(2) see an attorney and tell her what the conditions for recinciliation are, and that they are non negotiable.

You cannot move on without the full truth, and right now you have no clue what really happened or if it was the only time she has cheated. And others have asked you some questions that you need to demand answers to, not ask. And I would start with the polygraph test.

Apparently if this occurred years ago and you only found out six months ago, you were gaslighted for a long time. Women who do this are not trustworthy at all, and her reaction to the polygraph will tell you wonders. Those with nothing to hide ,hide nothing.

She is in total control. You say divorce is on the table, but I would bet your wife believes she has a better chance of getting hit by lightning in her living room than you walking right now. When she believes otherwise, you might make progress.


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## sancheharri

i am fighting hard to regain control of my mind. i'm trying to accept the reality that i may never find everything about the affair.

but my soul is yearning for answers. oftentimes i feel like losing it. the images and unanswered questions...my brain seems about to explode.

i feel like i'm split in half - one-half says just leave and never look back, but the other half is desperately seeking answers.

perhaps if i can somehow have some answers, even just opinions or reasonable guesses, i can makeout or have an idea what really transpired in the affair. THEN perhaps i can start to move on to recovering myself.

i'm a mess...

thanks, guys. keep 'em coming. i am reading and pondering on with your answers. i badly need this.


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## StillSearching

sancheharri said:


> i am fighting hard to regain control of my mind. i'm trying to accept the reality that i may never find everything about the affair.
> 
> but my soul is yearning for answers. oftentimes i feel like losing it. the images and unanswered questions...my brain seems about to explode.
> 
> i feel like i'm split in half - one-half says just leave and never look back, but the other half is desperately seeking answers.
> 
> perhaps if i can somehow have some answers, even just opinions or reasonable guesses, i can makeout or have an idea what really transpired in the affair. THEN perhaps i can start to move on to recovering myself.
> 
> i'm a mess...
> 
> thanks, guys. keep 'em coming. i am reading and pondering on with your answers. i badly need this.


You want to know where this can lead years from now? Small part of my story.
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/372874-bs-long-time-update.html

After 15 years I still have lingering questions. For you own sanity listen to these people. Please


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## snerg

Some comments on your post



sancheharri said:


> hello everyone,
> 
> i discovered evidences of an affair a couple of years ago but my cheating wife just confirmed it about 6 months ago. the usual anger, arguments, drama, etc...tried MC but stopped bacause i feel being pressured to accept that i was part of the reason for her 4-month sexual affair.
> 
> my cheating wife is evasive and defensive when being questioned. she insists she's already being honest and truthful with her answers but i feel she's misleading me to hide the real picture, or perhaps she's still in denial.
> 
> i'm asking for your opinions since i feel i can't get the whole truth from her.
> 
> several questions i can think of right now -
> 
> 1) she says she didn't have any feelings with the guy, LIE they treated each other as buddies during the affair. that's why she was able to let it go easily. LIE she even told the guy it was just sex. - BUT she said she cuddled to him after having sex for the first time, and she felt "they bonded" when they had sex.
> 
> 2) she says she didn't exert effort to seduce him, she was just being friendly. LIE - BUT she admitted "she entertained" his advances, she had conversations and flirted "harmlessly" back at him, allowed the guy to be alone with her in her room.
> 
> 3) she says she didn't enjoy the sex. LIE she felt dirty and cheap in one of the encounters LIE. everytime they had sex she just laid there and let him do all the work LIE - BUT she admitted she did somewhat enjoy the first time LIE and the guy tried to "pleasure her during the third sex. she went on to bang him "5 times only".LIE
> 
> 4) she says they used condoms everytime they had sexLIE . - BUT based on her words, it seems all the encounters are spontaneous (during work, lunch breaks, after work, early morning)
> 
> 5) she says didn't set-out to have an affair with him LIE although she found him attractive when they met. they were just "good friends" or acquaintances. LIE - BUT she admitted fantasizing about him way before their first sexual encounter. OMG A TRUTH!!
> 
> 6) she says she didn't care what the guy felt for her or what he thought of her LIE .- BUT she said she had sex for validation and to feel attractive and sexy.
> 
> 7) she says she's not a "sl*t". - BUT she insists the guy was just an acquaintance,LIE and blurted out during an argument that "...i wish i could've been paid as well...i became so cheap..."
> 
> 8) she said she's not into FWB.LIE - BUT she did have a sex affair with "just a friend".
> 
> 9) she still believes and feels that the guy was "true and honest, that the guy didn't just use her for sex" . LIE - BUT she admitted that the guy didn't stay overnight or spent much time with her, didn't invite her for a decent date, didn't call or sent messages. just the usual "buddy" relationship.
> 
> 10) she said she stopped the affair when the guy started comparing and complaining about his wifeLIE , and the affair was somewhat becoming "serious". - BUT she now says she stopped the affair because "she felt nothing good is coming out of it, her expectations were not met."LIE
> 
> these are just some of the many questions in my mind, very confusing and draining.
> 
> if i can't get rational answers from her, i'm hoping i can find some help in this forum.
> 
> TIA guys!...



Why question?

Really, why ask?

Your wife is an unabashed cheater.

Her affair was only 4 months LIE . It was many many many more months than that.

Your "wife" has no remorse. Your "wife" has no respect for you.



sancheharri said:


> BUT she now says she stopped the affair because "she felt nothing good is coming out of it, her expectations were not met


 Uhg! Just Uhg!
Her expectations? WTF! The entitlement is strong with this one.
Here's a thought if you stay with her:
Gee, thanks a whole heck of a lot for that. So instead of leaving me so that you could be with someone who was just as big of a scumbag as yourself and so that I could be free to find someone decent who would do right by me, it was sooooo much better for me that you stayed so that I could waste years of my life that I will never get back in order to continue being with a lying cheater who didn't deserve me. Thanks a whole hell of a lot for that since being with a lying cheater is such a freaking awesome prize and an awesome reward for all of my years of loyalty, dedication, love, and sacrifices. Yep, I hit the lying, cheating jackpot when I got to keep such a special prize as you.


Why stay?
Why allow her to disrespect you?
Why allow yourself to be treated like this?
Why listen to another lie?

1) Doctor. NOW - get STD test
2) Lawyer. NOW. Learn your rights. Start Divorce.
3) start separating all you finances today.
4) IC for you - you're going to need to talk with someone about this
5) 180 like your life depended on it (and it does)
6) Drink plenty of water
7) eat properly
8) Get as much sleep as you can.
9) Hit the gym and work out - it helps the body, the mind, and the soul
10) Don't know who originally posted it, but they are a genius:

Just Let Them Go

The end result?

The end result is to respect yourself in the end,
let go of the people that don't value you or respect you.

That is the end result.

The quickest way to get a cheating spouse back is to let them go with a smile on your face wishing them the best in life and hoping that everything works out in their relationship with their affair partner.

Seriously, the quickest way to get them back.

Nothing else works better or quicker.

Let them go.

Agree with them and their feelings,
"you should be with the OM, I hope he makes you happy, good bye"

Wouldn't that be true love?

If you really loved your spouse,
and wanted them to have what they really want in life which is the other person they're in love with,
wouldn't letting them go be the approach if you really love them?

Why focus on the affair or the drama associated with it?
Just let them go. Give them their freedom.

You can take a good hard look at yourself in the mirror everyday and improve yourself but do it for you, not for someone else, the changes will never stick when it's done for someone else, do it for your benefit and you will probably make those changes last much longer if not indefinitely - because it's for your benefit and you realize the importance and value in that benefit because YOU are involved.

I will never tell someone to change to entice a WAW back when she's been cheating on him. I don't care how bad a marriage, there is never an excuse for cheating. That is a personal decision that someone makes to cheat on their spouse. If a marriage is really bad, leave, get a divorce, speak up to your spouse and tell them flat out "this marriage sucks and if things don't change I'm going to leave you and find someone better" and if things don't improve, leave that person.

But cheating, no excuses.

Think about cheating.
A wayward spouse who cheats on their spouse goes behind their back, secretly, telling lies, feeling guilty, getting angry at their spouse for getting in the way of their fantasies but never owning up to their actions, never admitting what they're doing. If a person who cheats on their spouse felt justified in their actions, why hide and go behind their spouses backs when they start cheating, why lie, why make up excuses about late nights at work and going to a friends place and sleeping over because they drank too much and any other such nonsense?

Deep down, the cheating spouse knows there is something inherently wrong with their actions otherwise they wouldn't lie about their actions and hide what they're doing.

Fighting the affair? For what reason?
To compete with the OM or OW for your spouse?
What message does that communicate to your wayward spouse?
They have lots of value and you have none because now you have to compete with another person for their love? Competing with your wayward spouse's affair partner never works, it just prolongs an ugly drama filled process.

And for your last point,
The easiest way to show you will not tolerate cheating in your relationship is to let that person go. That is the easiest and most effective way to show this.

"Look wife/husband, I won't be in an open relationship with you, I won't give you X number of days, weeks, months to make your mind, if you really feel like you need to sit on the fence on this decision and can't decide between your affair partner and me well I will make the decision for you, you can be with them because I'm no longer an option. I love you and wish you a good life with them and hope it works out for you because it didn't work out for us. Now the best thing we can do for each other is to make this process as graceful and peaceful as possible for us and our children, I'll contact a lawyer/mediator and get started on the process of our legal separation/divorce."

You give them what they want.
You don't fight them on this issue.
You agree with their feelings,
they want to be with the other person, fine they should be with the other person, let them be with the other person.

You will never convince a person to change their feelings with your arguments and logic. You can not find one member on this website in a situation where they are dealing with infidelity where they got their spouse to change their mind about how they feel about their affair partner.

You can't say "don't love them, love me instead",
you can't say "look at me, I'm better in every way compared to your affair partner, pick me instead of them",
you can't say "you took marriage vows, you promised to love me"

I agree, you don't have to make it easy for your wayward spouse to have an affair, but when you let them go, "lovingly detach", you don't have to worry about making it easy for them. It's no longer your concern, they can have you or them but not both and not at the same time and since they've chosen to have an affair, they've made their choice, there is no profit in fighting that decision. Let them go and move on with your life, that is the quickest, easiest way to get them back.

You definitely don't support them financially and enable them, that would be weak, wussy, clingy, insecure behavior - something in you telling you that you need to support them financially while they're having an affair, hoping they'll realize how nice you are and come back to you.

Just let them go, have them move out or you move out and live a good life without them.


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## farsidejunky

straightshooter said:


> Basically, you are getting no answers and no healing because your wife does not believe for a second that she is going to not be able to intimidate you into letting it go. She cheated on you yet she is in total control. You have two choices.
> 
> (1) accept what happened and be a "good boy"
> (2) see an attorney and tell her what the conditions for recinciliation are, and that they are non negotiable.
> 
> You cannot move on without the full truth, and right now you have no clue what really happened or if it was the only time she has cheated. And others have asked you some questions that you need to demand answers to, not ask. And I would start with the polygraph test.
> 
> Apparently if this occurred years ago and you only found out six months ago, you were gaslighted for a long time. Women who do this are not trustworthy at all, and her reaction to the polygraph will tell you wonders. Those with nothing to hide ,hide nothing.
> 
> She is in total control. You say divorce is on the table, but I would bet your wife believes she has a better chance of getting hit by lightning in her living room than you walking right now. When she believes otherwise, you might make progress.


Please read this as many times as it takes to sink in, OP.


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## Bananapeel

Unfortunately, the easiest way to get past this is to divorce her and stop caring about what the answers are. There is nothing she can say that will make you trust her and accept her answers, so trying to find them is a lost effort. Use this as a time to think about what you would picture as an ideal relationship and then think about whether you see that happening with a person you do not trust. And, as the other posters alluded to, there is always going to be more that she is hiding from you. How much digging do you really want to do and for how long?


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## StillSearching

Are they still working together?

If she is still working with him, they are still having sex or sexting. Or both.
He will still pursue an easy target.


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## RWB

Bail.


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## Primrose

You do not continue to sleep with an AP if you are not enjoying it. Period.


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## jb02157

Bananapeel said:


> Unfortunately, the easiest way to get past this is to divorce her and stop caring about what the answers are. There is nothing she can say that will make you trust her and accept her answers, so trying to find them is a lost effort. Use this as a time to think about what you would picture as an ideal relationship and then think about whether you see that happening with a person you do not trust. And, as the other posters alluded to, there is always going to be more that she is hiding from you. How much digging do you really want to do and for how long?


Hearing your story and your need for detailed answer to questions regarding what exactly happened has me wondering. Why would you need specific details in order to heal from this. I would think the more details and the more you talk about it would make you feel worse. By now if you don't have all the information you want you probably won't get it and most of if is going to be a lie anyway. Do you think you could successfully R with her about this based only on what you know now. If not I would seriously consider divorce. You probably will never be able to trust her again and it doesn't seem she's doing her part to help you heal from this. I know this isn't what you want to hear but I think the only way that you can ever rest from this is to not have her in your life anymore.


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## TDSC60

She welcomed and encouraged his advances. She wanted sex from the start.
She did this because she wanted to do it pure and simple. No need to ask in more "why" questions. 
She then she continues to lie to you for two years(or more).
She has no respect nor love for you.
The wife and marriage you had died the day she started flirting with him. Both are gone and you just found that out for sure. You are grieving the loss.
She did this not you.
Free yourself from her, because she obviously wanted to be free of you even though she did not tell you.
You were and are her Plan B. The safety net to fall back to if the affair did not develop as she hoped it would.
She will do it again.


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## Thor

1) If her answers are generally truthful, it seems her values and attitudes are not in line with yours. You point out a number of inconsistencies in what she says and did compared to what you believe(d) her to be. Let's imagine her answers are basically accurate. Is this the kind of woman you would consider marrying if you met her today and learned this about her?

2) If her answers are generally deceptions, it seems she is not marriage material. If she is capable of having meaningless sex outside of the marriage, what would keep her from doing this again in the future? She was comfortable entering into the affair and carrying on with it. She does not now say how terrible she feels about what she did. She does not say what she did was wrong. She does not say she regrets betraying your trust or hurting you. In short, she is not showing genuine remorse for the affair and for harming you with her actions. Is this the kind of woman you would consider marrying if you met her today and learned this about her?


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## Thor

To your specific concern about getting the truth from her, there is only one way I can think of to get there. It would be to have her provide all of her electronic records to you of any texts, emails, histories from skype and other such apps etc. Then have her write out a detailed timeline of the affair. When did they first meet, first flirt, first discuss being more than friends? Where did the encounters occur? Did either of them say I Love You, and when/where did that happen? How many times did they have sex? Did they always use condoms? What sex acts did they engage in? Did anyone take nude or sex photos? How and when did they communicate before, during, and after the affair? Who ended the affair?

You can ask for as much detail in the timeline as you think you need to know.

Keep in mind that there may be some errors due to the human memory being very imperfect. She may try to be fully accurate yet fail. You may find some inconsistencies which are not intentional lies, and you may detect apparent inconsistencies which are factually accurate. There may be things she really does not remember.

Give her something like 5 days to put all of this together. Her memory may pull up additional info as she thinks on it and as she writes out things.

Then take her for a polygraph. You will coordinate ahead of time with the person giving the polygraph on the questions. The main question would be essentially "Did she give you all of the electronic information you requested and is her written timeline complete and accurate?". A good polygrapher can get good results. 

Normally I am not a fan of polygraphs for a few reasons, but in your case I really don't see any other way to get better facts.


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## Thor

You are, I think, too focused on the facts of what did or did not happen. As others have stated, you know she had a physical affair. You know she lied to you about it. You know the affair lasted for a while and was not some drunken one-night-stand (which wouldn't be good but implies different issues).

She did not participate meaningfully in marriage counseling. She has not owned up to what she did, nor shown true remorse. Her responses to your questions show continued deceptions, minimization of the affair, blame shifting, and rug sweeping.

What you have so far is a totally failed reconciliation. You have not healed from the betrayal. She is not doing any real work to help you heal.

In my opinion, all of those factors are vastly more important than exactly how many times they did whichever sex act, or whether she felt emotionally attached to him. I think your attempts to get better answers to your questions is a misguided effort. You're trying to understand what happened in order to figure out why it happened, and perhaps with that information you think you can save your marriage. The problem is the betrayal itself is not being dealt with.

Your wife is the one who needs to do the hard work in repairing the betrayal. The process requires expert guidance, ideally from a MC who knows what they are doing and will put the pressure on your wife. Your wife will have to feel and express true remorse for harming you. She'll have to see herself as having done something terrible, which is different than feeling bad for getting caught. She should apologize to you, and she should be asking for your forgiveness. She should be examining why she was capable of the betrayal in the first place. After the betrayal is processed, then you start working on rebuilding a new marriage with her, if possible.

Getting honest answers from her about the affair will be necessary, but the content of the answers is actually not a big part of the recovery process. You already know she had sex multiple times with the OM.


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## TX-SC

Any answers you get will only hurt more. Just file for D and move on with your life. 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## jorgegene

i'm getting tired of hearing about so called marriage counselors who put the onus on the behaving spouse and
try to get the BS to 'get over it'. 

seems like more often than not, they do so. what are they teaching these people in grad school??
i don't care what you did............NOTHING justifies an affair. especially a cold brazen one like your wife.

glad you quit this MC. i agree with the others. your wife has no sense of shame.


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## Hope1964

Hi and welcome. I am SO sorry you're here under these circumstances 

A few things to know:
- it takes about 2 years to stop thinking about it daily and start healing. YEARS. You're only 6 months in. It takes about 5 years to truly heal. Of course you will hear from many people - including your wife - that you just need to GET OVER IT already. And many people do just that. But none of them have truly healed. They may even stay married, but that is NOT reconciliation. It's burying your head in the sand.
- you will never get every single detail. Never. The need to keep picking at the scab is common, though. I did it. I basically obsessed for about 2 years. Some people just seem to need to do that. The need for it went away for me because my husband was doing everything humanly possible to improve himself and prove to me that he was worthy of R, so eventually I settled down. I have NO idea how people do it when the WS isn't doing everything they can - which is almost always the case. It's the case for you for sure.
- It's too bad you didn't kick her out the day you found out. I believe that is THE BEST thing to do in pretty much every circumstance of cheating because it worked for me. It showed my husband exactly what I thought of what he did and exactly what I was willing to tolerate. Cheaters live in la la land and they need to wake the hell up, or they don't change. Nothing wakes them up like a kick in the ass.

This thread has invaluable advice for BS's - taking the time to read it might be the best investment you can make right now:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/430739-post1.html


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## sancheharri

a lot of you guys gave sensible replies and advice. i said divorce is on the table, but i'll admit i'm not ready for it at this point. my mind is totally f*cked-up. i'm trying my best to get a grip, but so far i'm failing. 

yes, that's it, perhaps i'm grieving the loss. i'm grieving that the wife and marriage i had died the moment she started flirting with someone else. this might be one reason why i feel like dying inside day-in, day-out. it felt eerily similar when my mom died a few years ago.

i'm aware she probably didn't and will not tell all truthfully, that's why i'm seeking for some plausible answers and explanations here to some of the questions lingering in my mind. i have been fighting hard to divert my thoughts from these questions but they just keep on haunting me. every minute, everyday. i'm obsessed with it...i'm obsessed with getting details. i can't help myself from thinking about it at this point.

please bear with me if i seem to be insisting in getting answers. which is true, which is not? her answers just made me more confused. i already pointed out to her about inconsistencies in her storyline, but she just told me she can't remember many details as she already put it behind her. and the affair didn't matter to her in any way so she didn't bother to remember or keep the memories. 

i mentioned to her going through a lie-detector test, but she insists on just moving on and try to start over rebuilding. she pleads that she's remorseful and she's dealing with it herself - the remorse, shame, guilt, etc.

perhaps if i can just make a rough picture or storyline of the affair, i can probably start putting it to rest and push me to finally take that first step in healing...


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## Thor

She is remorseless. She, maybe, feels bad about being caught. When she says she is working on it herself and just wants you to move on, she is showing zero empathy and zero concern for you. Heartless is what she is.


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## farsidejunky

Sancheharri, the point you are missing is that you likely will not get those answers until she believes you are on your way out of the marriage unless she provides exactly what you are asking for, with zero hesitation or withholding of information, in any way, shape, or form. 

In order for her to believe you are on your way out, YOU must believe you are on your way out.

It has become absolutely cliche on here and other relationship forums, but it is no less true: 

You must be willing to lose your marriage in order to save it.


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## TBT

sancheharri said:


> ,10) she said she stopped the affair when the guy started comparing and complaining about his wife, and the affair was somewhat becoming "serious". - BUT she now says she stopped the affair because *"she felt nothing good is coming out of it, her expectations were not met."*


What good and what were her expectations? Her explanations,appear nonchalant to me,as opposed to remorseful.


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## AtMyEnd

sancheharri said:


> a lot of you guys gave sensible replies and advice. i said divorce is on the table, but i'll admit i'm not ready for it at this point. my mind is totally f*cked-up. i'm trying my best to get a grip, but so far i'm failing.
> 
> yes, that's it, perhaps i'm grieving the loss. i'm grieving that the wife and marriage i had died the moment she started flirting with someone else. this might be one reason why i feel like dying inside day-in, day-out. it felt eerily similar when my mom died a few years ago.
> 
> i'm aware she probably didn't and will not tell all truthfully, that's why i'm seeking for some plausible answers and explanations here to some of the questions lingering in my mind. i have been fighting hard to divert my thoughts from these questions but they just keep on haunting me. every minute, everyday. i'm obsessed with it...i'm obsessed with getting details. i can't help myself from thinking about it at this point.
> 
> please bear with me if i seem to be insisting in getting answers. which is true, which is not? her answers just made me more confused. i already pointed out to her about inconsistencies in her storyline, but she just told me she can't remember many details as she already put it behind her. and the affair didn't matter to her in any way so she didn't bother to remember or keep the memories.
> 
> i mentioned to her going through a lie-detector test, but she insists on just moving on and try to start over rebuilding. she pleads that she's remorseful and she's dealing with it herself - the remorse, shame, guilt, etc.
> 
> perhaps if i can just make a rough picture or storyline of the affair, i can probably start putting it to rest and push me to finally take that first step in healing...


I was just like, I needed to know why, how and whatever else. No my wife didn't have a physical affair, there was an emotional affair and then I caught what I see as a possible second EA. But I dug, poked and prodded everything and everywhere, I just couldn't understand it. It drove me insane to the point that I barely slept and was constantly on edge.

All I can say is stop. You know it did happen, you've heard her responses and seen her reactions. What happened has happened and there's nothing you can do to change that, but what you can do is change yourself. All knowing every detail about what happened is going to do is make things worse. You need to put it behind you and move forward, with or without her. If you don't you're only going to end up hurting yourself more than you already are, and it will end up hurting any future relationships you may have as well.


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## Emerging Buddhist

sancheharri said:


> a lot of you guys gave sensible replies and advice. i said divorce is on the table, but i'll admit i'm not ready for it at this point. my mind is totally ******-up. i'm trying my best to get a grip, but so far i'm failing.


You need to love yourself more... it may sound overly simple, but it really is the best thing you can do right now.

Be good to yourself while you ride this wave of sadness and don't look to enhance your pain... we often look for ownership in other's poor choices that we are hurt by, after awhile we find that we cannot build calm if we are too busy living other's pain of half-truths, and half-truths are like spoiled food: once you get a taste of it your first reaction is to spit it out in self-preservation, and then take the known action to stop eating, transferring knowledge to wisdom that it's consumption is damaging.

Will this desire to know something that will cause you more pain worth the self-torture?

I think you have hurt enough... love yourself more, and let go... trust the process.


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## LosingHim

Cheater here. Sorry to be blunt, I want to give you the other side of the coin. 

I had a ONS and lied to my husband for 2 years, told him it was just a kiss. Your wife is absolutely lying when she said she didn’t want it to continue, but it continued. I screwed around with my AP one time. While I didn’t come clean with my husband about the full extent of what I did (which ended up being oral sex that I did not complete), I did NOT like what I did. I had pretty big guilt and shame for it. And therefore, I never did it again. No, I did not do everything “right” after cheating (there’s no way to do that the correct way) I had incredibly easy access to my AP. He (still) lives 2 roads over. Our kids are friends. He was my husbands best friend and after a year we started hanging out with him again. I could have easily gone underground to continue the affair. My AP is a serial cheater known for his conquests with women. Should I have chosen to continue it, it would have been incredibly easy to do so. But since I didn’t WANT to, it never happened again. Please understand, I am not bragging about what I did. I do not mean for it to sound that way or to trigger anyone. I’m just trying to point out that if your wife said she didn’t want to continue, but did, she’s full of you know what. There are always choices. She CHOSE to cheat the first time and she CHOSE to continue it. EVERYTHING she has told you is a crock of crap aimed at “minimizing” your pain and saving her own behind.

This is not remorse. Not even in the slightest. And it’s not there because she has zero fear of losing you.


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## honcho

sancheharri said:


> a lot of you guys gave sensible replies and advice. i said divorce is on the table, but i'll admit i'm not ready for it at this point. my mind is totally f*cked-up. i'm trying my best to get a grip, but so far i'm failing.
> 
> yes, that's it, perhaps i'm grieving the loss. i'm grieving that the wife and marriage i had died the moment she started flirting with someone else. this might be one reason why i feel like dying inside day-in, day-out. it felt eerily similar when my mom died a few years ago.
> 
> i'm aware she probably didn't and will not tell all truthfully, that's why i'm seeking for some plausible answers and explanations here to some of the questions lingering in my mind. i have been fighting hard to divert my thoughts from these questions but they just keep on haunting me. every minute, everyday. i'm obsessed with it...i'm obsessed with getting details. i can't help myself from thinking about it at this point.
> 
> please bear with me if i seem to be insisting in getting answers. which is true, which is not? her answers just made me more confused. i already pointed out to her about inconsistencies in her storyline, but she just told me she can't remember many details as she already put it behind her. and the affair didn't matter to her in any way so she didn't bother to remember or keep the memories.
> 
> i mentioned to her going through a lie-detector test, but she insists on just moving on and try to start over rebuilding. she pleads that she's remorseful and she's dealing with it herself - the remorse, shame, guilt, etc.
> 
> perhaps if i can just make a rough picture or storyline of the affair, i can probably start putting it to rest and push me to finally take that first step in healing...


Your more in the denial stage than grieving. Your hoping answers will give you some sort of closure but the ultimately wont, they just lead to more questions. The answers you already received should tell you all you need to know. She is unwilling to be truthful and just wants to bury it, not repair the marriage. You've gotten double talk and nonsense for answers. Right now the only she probably regrets is admitting anything because you just didn't rugsweep it like she wants. 

It's time for a long overdue talk with a lawyer.


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## TDSC60

sancheharri said:


> a but she just told me she can't remember many details as she already put it behind her. and the affair didn't matter to her in any way so she didn't bother to remember or keep the memories.


Another way to phrase this;

Your marriage and you mean so little to her so why bother to try and remember the events that destroyed you and it?


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## sokillme

sancheharri said:


> i am fighting hard to regain control of my mind. i'm trying to accept the reality that i may never find everything about the affair.
> 
> but my soul is yearning for answers. oftentimes i feel like losing it. the images and unanswered questions...my brain seems about to explode.
> 
> i feel like i'm split in half - one-half says just leave and never look back, but the other half is desperately seeking answers.
> 
> perhaps if i can somehow have some answers, even just opinions or reasonable guesses, i can makeout or have an idea what really transpired in the affair. THEN perhaps i can start to move on to recovering myself.
> 
> i'm a mess...
> 
> thanks, guys. keep 'em coming. i am reading and pondering on with your answers. i badly need this.


Listen to the first half. Your wife isn't remorseful. There are better options out there. Find and honest loyal person and you will have a better life. Life is hard enough without living with someone who stabbed you in the back and then blamed you for it.

Let me ask you a question why is this OK for you? Why do you feel like you are not worth more then that? Why is it OK for her to abuse you and not have any consequence. For you to continue to give her your loyalty when she gives you none. Are you worth so little? Is there really no women out of the tens of thousands out there who would not be willing to give you more then this? 

Your wife knows she has your loyalty and she has used it to abuse you with it. She is not a good women, and she is not a catch. 

This is your life man, you only get one. Is it worth spending you time trying to get someone whose even if she does love you, love is worth so little? What does love even mean when she says it. Not what it means when you say it. 

Life is TOO short.

One more thing the most striking thing about what she says is that none of any of it even afterwards is about what she has done to you. Your wife sounds like a psychopath if this is really the way she talks. Everyone says the quickest way to get them back is blah blah blah, you shouldn't want them back. A loyal dog for companionship and some porn would be better.


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## mickybill

sancheharri said:


> hello everyone,
> 10) ... - BUT she now says she stopped the affair because "she felt nothing good is coming out of it, her expectations were not met."


Well, better luck next time...and there's a good chance that they'll be a next time unless she snaps out of her fog.


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## sancheharri

i've repeatedly read all your replies and i can't thank you enough people for your suggestions and inputs. it's amazing that it's much better here than going to a MC, and they're supposed to be professionals and experts on these matters. i guess we chanced upon a mediocre MC.

LosingHim, you're a woman who also made the same mistake (although not exactly the same) as my wife did, would you be kind enough to comment or expound more on the 10 conflicting statements of my wife as i have posted? i know all of you advised me to just let go and move on, but i feel i just can't take the first step in healing if i don't hear any answers to some questions in my mind. i would like to request for your opinion and comments as a woman. TIA.

with all your inputs in mind, i again tried to ask my cheating wife why there are so many inconsistencies with her story. her reply was - "...in hindsight, i was also confused and messed-up during the affair that's why i as able to commit those despicable things...and i'm still confused and disappointed at myself at this point for cheapening myself and destroying our marriage and family. i don't exactly know what came to me that made me throw all in the wind for some shallow thrills and excitement. i don't know what and how to answer all of your questions but i am doing my best to be truthful and honest to you...i'm also a mess right now...but what i'm sure of is that i didn't have any romantic feeling ever for that guy. inspite of whatever i felt and thought of during the affair, i realized that i never stopped loving you..it was you all along...i can not express how much i regret what i did to you and our family..."

i just left it at that for the meantime. i'm just too exhausted...


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## sancheharri

i've been also reading many threads in this forum. it's not that i'm gloating or something but i somehow find it relieving that i am not alone. i'm a bit surprised that cheating is very common. i mean i'm aware of these things. i even joked about this issue among my buddies, but when i was the one put on the spot, i was shocked to the core. i just can't believe it!

i don't like to judge others but what is it really going on inside the minds of people who cheated? are they basically good people who made wrong choices? i mean all of us make mistakes. is there a character flaw that can or can't be changed? i don't understand...

yes, FEAR - i think i am afraid of what's ahead after all of these. reading about the experience of StillSearching made me think harder...


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## eric1

Your first step is to get in touch with her boyfriend's wife. Then you'll start getting answers.

It is good you are reading other threads here. You will see freshly betrayed will often fumble with this step but once it's done they universally come back to recommend it as a critical action to their recovery

Remember, don't let her know you're doing this. She will just warn him.


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## TDSC60

eric1 said:


> Your first step is to get in touch with her boyfriend's wife. Then you'll start getting answers.
> 
> It is good you are reading other threads here. You will see freshly betrayed will often fumble with this step but once it's done they universally come back to recommend it as a critical action to their recovery
> 
> Remember, don't let her know you're doing this. She will just warn him.


I agree that you should reach out to OM's wife. Sometimes the other betrayed spouse knows a lot more about the affair than you do. Sometimes they don't. Sometimes they just don't want to talk about it. You might get lucky and get more truth than you have now.

And the simple answer to all the "why did she do it questions" is because she wanted to do it. She chose to do it and keep it going for 4 long months.


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## farsidejunky

OP, you are still talking...and talking...and talking some more.

Letting fear suspend action will only serve to prolong your agony.


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## ConanHub

sancheharri said:


> i've been also reading many threads in this forum. it's not that i'm gloating or something but i somehow find it relieving that i am not alone. i'm a bit surprised that cheating is very common. i mean i'm aware of these things. i even joked about this issue among my buddies, but when i was the one put on the spot, i was shocked to the core. i just can't believe it!
> 
> i don't like to judge others but what is it really going on inside the minds of people who cheated? are they basically good people who made wrong choices? i mean all of us make mistakes. is there a character flaw that can or can't be changed? i don't understand...
> 
> yes, FEAR - i think i am afraid of what's ahead after all of these. reading about the experience of StillSearching made me think harder...


There are common elements with all cheaters but cheaters are not all the same.

Without more of a back story on your wife, her infidelity, how long, how it was discovered and who it was with as well as some of your history, it is hard to determine some answers to your questions.

Good people are tempted but don't.

Bad people are tempted and do.

At some point, your wife became a disgusting human being. The reasons won't be good, why she chose to prostitute herself like a cheap piece of ass or give up the dignity of the title of wife and mother for that of a s*** for some married piece of crap.

But she did choose to become and do all that.

You should seek to work on yourself because I do not sense you are ready to handle this in a healthy way yet.

Can you get some distance from her for a while?

You need some peace and goodness for a while and leave the hard stuff until you can breathe without pain.

Give us a history and back story with the aforementioned details and we can probably help you better.


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## straightshooter

farsidejunky said:


> OP, you are still talking...and talking...and talking some more.
> 
> Letting fear suspend action will only serve to prolong your agony.


Stop trying to make sense of what she did. it is quite clear that she is no unique snowflake. She did it because
(1) it was fun and new and exciting
(2) she went back because she liked it and anything she says to the contrary is a crock or crap
(3) she never thought she would get caught or have to confess. none of them do
(4) she believed you would not leave her, and that has been proven correct
(5) and she doesn't care enough to lay it all out for you. A Married woman who cheats on her husband does not forget everything
(6) and she has gotten away with you not knowing crap and putting up with it.

I believe most of us here believe that if you put divorce papers in her hand ( you can stop it any time you want to) that all of a sudden her memory will recover instantaneously. Right now, other than you being a wreck, which she should be a hell of a lot more worried about than herself, all she has is some minor inconvenience of you not being Mr. Nice Guy

And by the way, no mention of what she is really doing to be accountable to you for her time and communications other than telling you to suck it up and move on.

Stay the hell away from MC. The last thing you need right now is some idiot telling you to move on and focus on what you did wrong to cause this.

You are on a merry go round and it will not stop until she fears what might happen. Until then you get stonewalled and the chances of it happening again are heightened because she basically got away with it.


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## james5588

sancheharri said:


> a lot of you guys gave sensible replies and advice. i said divorce is on the table, but i'll admit i'm not ready for it at this point. my mind is totally f*cked-up. i'm trying my best to get a grip, but so far i'm failing.
> 
> yes, that's it, perhaps i'm grieving the loss. i'm grieving that the wife and marriage i had died the moment she started flirting with someone else. this might be one reason why i feel like dying inside day-in, day-out. it felt eerily similar when my mom died a few years ago.
> 
> i'm aware she probably didn't and will not tell all truthfully, that's why i'm seeking for some plausible answers and explanations here to some of the questions lingering in my mind. i have been fighting hard to divert my thoughts from these questions but they just keep on haunting me. every minute, everyday. i'm obsessed with it...i'm obsessed with getting details. i can't help myself from thinking about it at this point.
> 
> please bear with me if i seem to be insisting in getting answers. which is true, which is not? her answers just made me more confused. i already pointed out to her about inconsistencies in her storyline, but she just told me she can't remember many details as she already put it behind her. and the affair didn't matter to her in any way so she didn't bother to remember or keep the memories.
> 
> i mentioned to her going through a lie-detector test, but she insists on just moving on and try to start over rebuilding. she pleads that she's remorseful and she's dealing with it herself - the remorse, shame, guilt, etc.
> 
> perhaps if i can just make a rough picture or storyline of the affair, i can probably start putting it to rest and push me to finally take that first step in healing...


I feel for you. I really really do. I am not going to pretend to have answers, just a few thoughts to share...

1. You'll NEVER get the answers that you need to fill the gaping hole. You'll never 'understand'. Think of it this way. If you sat down with someone who committed a heinous and senseless murder and had them 'explain it' to you, you being a good person, nothing the perp can say will EVER make you understand. You'd get stuck in loops. You wonder why not just this or how come not that... When you sit and think about it, it really is easy to do the right thing in life. The wrong thing is usually 'hard'. 

1.1 This is where is gets trippy... even if she were an open book (forget polygraph, I'm talking hypnosis, theoretically for argument's sake) and could without any fear and any shame and with perfect recall be completely open to you to how she felt.... All of this presumes that those were honest feelings and and not in some state of dissonance within herself. So a person in these situations will say "he made me feel [blank]" when in fact she only fooling herself for unknown reason (past trauma, trying to live up to something she saw on facebook - who knows). 


You can't expect someone to be honest with you when they are not able of being honest with themselves...

1.2 Don't confuse honesty with fortitude. Even if she could have the integrity to be honest with herself and the humility (without humiliation) to be honest with you, that does not mean that she did not enjoy this or that didn't want it on some level. The only way to explain this one is that a fundamentally good person trying to unravel this from a rational mind may look at this and say, "oh you were suffering, you were in a bad place and very vulnerable when this happened, so I am going to infer that absent that pain - you would not have done this and we would be who I had thought we were". And this would likely be wrong, too. 

1.3 This is why she can't go there with you of all people. If she can't be honest with herself about this, about why it happened, about what pain brought her here, about any of it, how can she do these things with the person she has hurt the most.

2. This one is going to get me flamed... In the purest sense of it all. It kinda doesn't matter. None of this matters (see 2.1) The most important question isn't what happened (trying to re-piece / re-assess the person she "forensically" is an exercise in futility - it will definitely give you insight into the human condition, but not into the person your wife is), the question may not even be "what do want from here on out" (although in a perfect world it is). Here on planet reality, the only question that matters is, given that she wants to stay "is she capable of making this work going forward and are you willing to live with this (truly love her) for the next 40 or so years"....

2.1 What she actually did or didn't do kinda doesn't matter and isn't an accurate measure for ****. It's what was going on in her head and her heart (see point 1.2). People can do crazy ****, disassociate in the moment, and that moment has no baring on who they are. People can do crazy ****, love it, and later fool themselves into thinking they disassociated in order to protect their self esteem, People can "do the right thing", NOT do the crazy ****, but always look back wish they had... 

I am sorry. I am truly sorry for giving you the biggest pile of non-answer answer. But I got half way through these and couldn't go on reading... I don't believe in forensic re-hashing. If she wants to tell you everything as a means to confess her transgressions against you, against herself, and against your marriage, that is something else altogether. But it would be primarily for her. And at point then you're playing the role of bff / therapist. All the while you yourself are stuck in a loop...


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## Thor

sancheharri said:


> LosingHim, you're a woman who also made the same mistake (although not exactly the same) as my wife did


What your wife did was not a mistake. A mistake is when something unintended happened. By mistake I bumped a glass off the table and it broke on the floor. That's a mistake. Your wife intentionally committed a string of betrayals, then she committed a string of lies. Now she is intentionally disrespecting you with her answers.

If you've read LosingHim's story you'll see a huge contrast compared to your wife. You'll see that she is respected here for how she has owned what she did. We all do the wrong thing sometimes. What is important is how we correct ourselves. This is, I think, the crux of what people are getting at here on your thread. Your wife is not on the path of correcting for her wrongs.

Getting answers to your questions is an important part of the process to recovering from her betrayals. But the larger issue is she appears to be continuing to deceive you. She certainly is attempting to get you to rug sweep the entire thing. You don't have the correct process in place to get your answers, nor do you have the correct process in place to get to a successful R.


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## drifting on

I would say that at this moment you are shell shocked, standing alone in the field of ruin of what your marriage and life were. Been there myself and it's rough trying to find your way through. You are giving way to rug sweeping as your wife tries to snow you with details. Doesn't remember is not true, didn't have feelings for OM isn't true. Want to know if she had feelings for OM? Tell your wife you exposed him to his wife that OM had an affair. If he isn't married, tell your wife you exposed OM at their work. Sit back and watch the fireworks. Want to know if it's fully over? Surprise your wife at work to take her to lunch, but before you leave ask your wife to take you to OM's desk first for a chat. Again, watch the fireworks. 

Your wife needs a consequence, as does your MC. Schedule another appointment with your MC, then do what I did. At the session take a small puzzle in with you. Tell your wife and MC this puzzle represents the affair. Ask your wife to put the puzzle together. After she does look her dead in the eye with anger and say, you know all of the affair. Then look at your MC, tell him/her, she knows every detail of the entire affair, do you agree? MC will most likely agree with you. Next take a few pieces out of the puzzle, then say this is what you know of the affair. Look your MC dead in the eye, ask how you are to forgive? How do you move forward? What are you forgiving your wife for? How does this have anything to do with what you did pre affair? Next look at your wife.

Ask your wife what happened in a spot where a piece is missing. Tell her without full disclosure this relationship ends. Tell her you have an appointment with a lawyer, you are filing for divorce due to adultery and list OM on the papers. This becomes public record, your wife will have a fit about this. Tell your wife, who is remorseless by the way, that the only way forward for you is to go down the path of divorce. Tell your wife she broke her vows, gave away what was to be exclusive to you like a cheap piece of trash. Tell her you can't go forward until she feels remorse. 

Your wife is regretful, yet has pride with her affair that she can't be humble. Your wife is refusing to tell you all to protect herself, remorse would mean she feels your pain and hers, but she is protecting herself. So from your posts, reconciliation would be useless, then look at your MC and say, you should know this. Get up and walk out. 

I strongly suggest you file for divorce, you can always stop the divorce. Do the 180, do this for as long as you need to heal to a healthy point. Listen to the posters here, give more backstory, and finally, if they are working together still, the affair isn't completely over.


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## LosingHim

1)	She may have told the guy it was just sex. And maybe at first she thought it was. Or maybe that’s what she told HIM to downplay it in her own mind. It was safer to her to have an affair if it was “just sex”. Or maybe she thought the guy would be more willing to screw around if it was “no strings attached”. Otherwise, I myself as a woman have never met a man that I have such immediate, raw sexual attraction to that I had to drop my pants for them right then and there for no reason. She was getting SOMETHING out of this. I didn’t have feelings for my AP, but we were friends so I had a fond kinship with him. The reason mine escalated was because he was complimenting me, stroking my ego, telling me all of these great things about myself that I felt like I hadn’t heard in so long. I was eating it up like heroin. I didn’t have feelings for HIM – but I greatly enjoyed the things he was saying. I wanted them to continue. Then I felt like he deserved a “payment” for these things. I did end up stopping less than a minute in, but the deed was already started and I made a horrible CHOICE to even let it get as far as compliments. He evoked good feelings in me that I ate up. Do not be confused that at the very least your wife greatly enjoyed his attention. Although, if this happened numerous times, I highly doubt there were no feelings involved. Women just are not wired this way.
2)	As a person who in the past had really bad boundaries, this could very well be how it started. I have an inappropriate sense of humor and I’ve always been “one of the guys”. I can totally see now that in the past I’ve crossed numerous lines of appropriateness by not stopping advances, allowing flirting. Even though I wouldn’t flirt back or say these things back to the men, by allowing THEM to do it, it led them to thinking they had a chance, that I was available or willing and it was disrespecting my marriage on a different level. There’s no such thing as “harmless flirting”. Harmless flirting leads to affairs. 
3)	She could have felt dirty and cheap. I felt dirty and cheap. Still do. But I’d be interested in knowing which encounter she felt dirty and cheap during. I felt dirty, cheap and wrong so I stopped. And then I didn’t do it again. However, if she felt dirty and cheap during encounter 2 but went back for 3 more times……obviously she didn’t mind that feeling. If something makes you feel shameful, you rarely do it again. Because the shame and embarrassment of it is so overwhelming, you couldn’t. There are 2 scenarios for the ‘enjoyment’ factor. She either greatly enjoyed it and that’s why she went back for more. Telling you she didn’t enjoy it is to save your feelings. As women, we might let bad sex with our spouse slide, because we love them anyway. What would be the point of having an affair if the sex is bad? Which goes back to question number 1. She MAY entertain bad sex – BECAUSE SHE HAD FEELINGS.
4)	No answer. Some people are crazy condom Nazi’s. Other people don’t care. My guess would be that they didn’t use them. Affairs are secret. A lot of times sex is had in secret places, with very little time to plan, an opportunity arises and they take advantage of that. Unless he carries around condoms at ALL times, it’s highly likely they didn’t use them. Or at least not every time. Being that he’s a married man, I doubt that he carries condoms around. He and his wife probably do not use them. Him buying and hiding them would arouse suspicion with his own wife and make it more likely he himself would get caught. Of course, there’s the possibility he could run to the gas station and grab one beforehand, but you do realize that makes their encounters that much more planned and calculated, right?
5)	Meh. A lot of people will tell you they don’t set out to have an affair. I didn’t. Hearing “it just happened” makes my skin crawl. But in my case, I freaking ADORED my husband. Had you told me I would cheat on him, I’d punch you in the face. I didn’t set out to cheat that day. Or ever. But you combine a LOT of alcohol, soft boundaries and compliments and apparently that was my perfect recipe to be a sh*tty human being who didn’t care about anything. So maybe she didn’t when she first met him. I’ve had fleeting fantasies about men I’ve met. You can’t control a little tingling in your loins. But there’s a huge difference between a little tingling and full on sex. If she was having fantasies about this man, her guard should have been up even higher. The fantasies made her vulnerable to advances, and she did nothing to stop that. 
6)	Possibly. But I’m sure she enjoyed the attention. Or she wouldn’t have kept going back for it and encouraging it. 
7)	Who cares if she’s a sl*t. Or if she’s a wh*re. Is a sl*t a woman that sleeps with 20 men in a year? Or one who only sleeps with 2 in a lifetime, but one just happens to not be her husband. No need to put a label on it IMO. Sure, I feel like a wh*re sometimes but that label says nothing and does nothing. The fact is, yes, she became cheap. Maybe she’s conflicted on whether or not she feels like a sl*t. 
8)	Talking in circles because that’s easier than admitting the truth.
9)	But she didn’t care what the guy felt for her. If she didn’t care, she wouldn’t have an opinion on whether he was true or honest. LOL at a proper date. How do you have a proper date when you’re both married. Yeah, they had a “buddy” relationship. A F*ck Buddy relationship. 
10)	This line kills me. Her “expectations weren’t being met”. I’d want to know exactly what those expectations were. That also points to it being very well thought out and calculated. 



Point blank, you’re getting the run around and not true remorse. You will drive yourself insane. My husband also cheated and a lot of his answers are similar to yours above. “I had feelings but not the kind you think they are”. “We just talked about our lives, but I can’t give you specifics of the conversations because I don’t remember”. “I didn’t talk about you and I” but yet found out from her he was telling her he was leaving me, I didn’t make him happy, etc. He was promising her that they were going to be together. Still won’t admit it was physical but I’m not an idiot, he was sneaking to drive to her house 2 hours away during the work day……I still don’t have a lot of answers. Probably never will. It eats at me every single day. It pops into my head at the worst moments. He takes our daughter to school every day. When he was going to see his AP, he would tell me he needed to go into work early for meetings. That was how he could go see her 2 hours away during the work day. He’d get to work at 6, work until 10, take 4 hours of vacation and be to see her by noon. He’d stay until 2:30 and then come home and be home by 430 when I get off work. He drives a lot for work so I never suspected a thing. Yesterday he told me he needed to go to work at 6AM today. He has a somewhat “legitimate” reason to be there that early. But I have no way to verify what he’s doing. If he’s back to his old tricks. My anxiety has been through the roof since yesterday. He’s also not being very nice to me, which is what happened last time as well. He couldn’t be nice to me because he was in the fog of “her”. I’m literally sitting her waiting for a bomb to drop. I’ve been in a trigger since yesterday. I’ve obsessively checked all of her social media, 7,8,9 times since yesterday. I am trying to plot and plan ways to get him to either meet me at home at lunch or early afternoon so I can verify he’s where he’s supposed to be. He took my car today so I’ll be verifying the mileage later. He’s a baseball coach and I’m freaking out that it’s raining today because that means the game could be cancelled which would give him the opportunity to go. If the game isn’t cancelled, he wouldn’t have time to go and come back. I can verify that he’s at work at least a partial day because my cousins husband is a driver for where he works and I can ask if he’s there. 

That’s my life – ONE DAY. That’s just how I feel RIGHT NOW. Is that how you want to live your life?


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## Thor

sancheharri said:


> i don't like to judge others but what is it really going on inside the minds of people who cheated? are they basically good people who made wrong choices? i mean all of us make mistakes. is there a character flaw that can or can't be changed? i don't understand...


First, you have every right and obligation to judge others. Certainly regarding how their actions impact you and your community. You have every right to your set of standards and to judge people according to those standards.

As to what a cheating wife is thinking, there are a limited number of different scenarios. It seems all the affairs I am aware of fall into some pretty simple basic patterns. I believe almost all cheaters do in fact have a character flaw. Just like chronic shop lifters or unreformable alcoholics. There is something in their psyche which allows them to rationalize it as ok for them to intentionally do these things. I believe your wife certainly has a character flaw wrt disloyalty.

An e-book which I think would explain your wife's behavior and thought patterns is "Women's Infidelity" by Michelle Langley. If you can find a reasonably priced copy somewhere I think it would answer a lot of your questions. The author charges a crazy high price on her own website.


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## Hope1964

Everything you're asking and feeling I did too.

But your wife isn't helping you at ALL. Unless she steps up and starts acting like someone who deserves you, you need to kick her out.


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## StillSearching

Thor said:


> First, you have every right and obligation to judge others. Certainly regarding how their actions impact you and your community. You have every right to your set of standards and to judge people according to those standards.
> 
> As to what a cheating wife is thinking, there are a limited number of different scenarios. It seems all the affairs I am aware of fall into some pretty simple basic patterns. I believe almost all cheaters do in fact have a character flaw. Just like shop lifters or unreformable alcoholics. There is something in their psyche which allows them to rationalize it as ok for them to intentionally do these things. I believe your wife certainly has a character flaw wrt disloyalty.
> 
> An e-book which I think would explain your wife's behavior and thought patterns is "Women's Infidelity" by Michelle Langley. If you can find a reasonably priced copy somewhere I think it would answer a lot of your questions. The author charges a crazy high price on her own website.


True.
First understanding women and men bring different things into a marriage. That's nature.
Second understanding the effects of giving those things away and what damage it causes, both men and women, are crucial.
Mostly the betrayer must understand what it is they have given to be truly remorseful. Because without the nested value you cannot have true empathy. 
Empathy is where remorse begins.


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## Jessica38

Cheaters trickle-truth, so your concern that you're not getting the full story is more than likely warranted. Get a copy of Surviving an Affair by Dr. Harley. He helps couples recover from affairs and has had great success with a concrete plan to move forward, or at least to get the full story to decide if you WANT to move forward. It includes getting the full story from the WS, and likely going the polygraph route to make sure. Only then will you know what you're dealing with. As much as the poly route sounds like drama to me, I've read that WS trickled the truth all the way into the parking lot before the poly, only to come out with confessions that are far worse than what they led their BS to believe. 

Of course she wants to stop talking about it. Talking about it means she has to be very careful that you do not catch any discrepancies in her story and she doesn't want to keep thinking about what she did to you. Cheaters= selfish.

Get the book and I'd also highly suggest you stop worrying about her thoughts, feelings on the situation and start looking at what YOU feel, think, and need. Tell her you need some time and space for a few days until you get your plan in place. Do not pursue her in any way. Focus only on yourself. Stick to the facts- you don't need to hear that she didn't love him, it was only sex, etc. The facts are she betrayed you by having sex with another man. She broke her vows to you. What do you need for yourself now?


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## straightshooter

Jessica38 said:


> Cheaters trickle-truth, so your concern that you're not getting the full story is more than likely warranted. Get a copy of Surviving an Affair by Dr. Harley. He helps couples recover from affairs and has had great success with a concrete plan to move forward, or at least to get the full story to decide if you WANT to move forward. It includes getting the full story from the WS, and likely going the polygraph route to make sure. Only then will you know what you're dealing with. As much as the poly route sounds like drama to me, I've read that WS trickled the truth all the way into the parking lot before the poly, only to come out with confessions that are far worse than what they led their BS to believe.
> 
> Of course she wants to stop talking about it. Talking about it means she has to be very careful that you do not catch any discrepancies in her story and she doesn't want to keep thinking about what she did to you. Cheaters= selfish.
> 
> Get the book and I'd also highly suggest you stop worrying about her thoughts, feelings on the situation and start looking at what YOU feel, think, and need. Tell her you need some time and space for a few days until you get your plan in place. Do not pursue her in any way. Focus only on yourself. Stick to the facts- you don't need to hear that she didn't love him, it was only sex, etc. The facts are she betrayed you by having sex with another man. She broke her vows to you. What do you need for yourself now?



Id be careful with the Dr Harley information. This is the same "expert" who tells men whose wives are actively cheating to "woo them back" and let it go on in front of them, rather than putting your foot down. If you were sitting in front of this Doctor while she was cheating, he would tell you to tell her how beautiful she wass as she went out the door to bang her boyfriend.


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## Taxman

First and foremost, YOUR WIFE IS A ***** AND A ****! Treat her as such! SECOND: Fire your MC, he or she is an anal sphincter.

GET MAD; YOU HAVE EVERY RIGHT, YOU ARE BEING MANIPULATED BY A *****!
Do the 180 and start making demands. Demand a polygraph, that is the only way that you can determine what is truth and what is not. Demand a timeline. Give her some consequences: Demand that she leave but remain celebate while separated. Talk to a lawyer and have divorce papers drawn up. 
Cut off all of her funds. 

Right now she is cake-eating. There have been no real consequences to her actions. GIVE HER SOME. Have you exposed? Have you tossed her into the streets? Have you called the OM? Is he married? Have you contacted anyone?


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## StillSearching

straightshooter said:


> Id be careful with the Dr Harley information. This is the same "expert" who tells men whose wives are actively cheating to "woo them back" and let it go on in front of them, rather than putting your foot down. If you were sitting in front of this Doctor while she was cheating, he would tell you to tell her how beautiful she wass as she went out the door to bang her boyfriend.


So true. I read it. 
MC also told me to woo her because she will leave if you don't make her want to stay.
Wish I would never had done that.....


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## Taxman

Wooing a wayward back is merely another name for doing the "Pick-me" dance. It does not work. I just got off the phone with a client whose "child bride" just went off the reservation. She has completely ghosted him. He is devastated, she abandoned him and her two sons. Apparently she was working in a restaurant, with a much younger staff around her, and decided that was the lifestyle she wanted. The pick-me dance, has both exhausted and injured my client. She is completely unrepentant and feels she owes it to herself to pursue a new life. He learned that wooing her back is never going to work. Now, we as in him, and myself as his financial representative and his lawyer are going to exact a pound of flesh from her. 

He was trying to be a nice guy and asked her to lawyer up. 

She does not see the need to. 

She will.


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## Malaise

sancheharri said:


> 9) she still believes and feels that the guy was "true and honest, that the guy didn't just use her for sex" . - BUT she admitted that the guy didn't stay overnight or spent much time with her, didn't invite her for a decent date, didn't call or sent messages. just the usual "buddy" relationship.
> 
> 10) she said she stopped the affair when the guy started comparing and complaining about his wife, and the affair was somewhat becoming "serious". - BUT she now says she stopped the affair because "she felt nothing good is coming out of it, her expectations were not met."


9) She really believes a "true and honest ' guy would cheat on his wife, lying to her, for months?

10) If her expectations ( did she say what those were? ) WERE met, would she still be with him?


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## sancheharri

i didn't expect this kind of support from "total strangers"...I REALLY APPRECIATE THIS. i haven't told anybody that we're having this problem out of embarassment. 

i'm sorry i forgot to tell the background and went straight-up in asking questions here. i'll try to make it as short as possible -

my wife's personality can be described as outgoing. she's friendly in general but she's more comfortable with the opposite sex as she was a "tomboy" during her younger years.

we were married and had a child at a young age. we're both 47 now. we have 3 children and the youngest is 4. i will admit i had a fling with another girl when we were still dating. i guess due to my young and immature age then, i handled that very badly. i somewhat "forced" her to accept it and move on. of course, i was sorry and tried my best to make-up for my offense.

i'll describe our marriage as "normal" - not great as a fairytale, but not that bad as hell. disagreements, finances, in-laws, children, etc.

i have a small business that's doing fine, and she works as a sales executive for a company. she makes more money than me. her job requires her to go out with clients for sales presentations. and yes, her job also requires her to do some travels.

it's during one of these sales calls that she met the other guy - a hotel front desk officer. she describes him as a playful and attentive, and they hit it off immediately because they have similar personalities. 

at first, she found him good-looking but treated him as one of the guys. greetings and smiles turned into short conversations, then progressed to lengthy talks about work, children, etc. lots of laughters and fun.

my wife says she knew the guy for almost a year before it turned into full-blown affair. everytime she travelled to that place, he was always there giving her "special treatment" - assisting with her needs, assigning the best room available, and even bringing her coffee and donuts. she felt they became "close".

she said that she began thinking about him, fantasizing about having sex with him a few months prior to their first sex encounter. she said she didn't feel it's wrong because those were "just fantasies" anyway. and they were just good friends. no guilt.

in one of her trips to that place, we had a fight before she went away. it was during that time that the guy came with her up to her room to carry her packages. she let him in so they could hang-out a little. he was "just a friend" anyway. it was this instance that they found themselves making-out, but no sex. but before leaving, the guy asked her if he could see her the next day - early in the morning. she said she knew what his intention was and what will happen, but she said yes anyway. they had sex for the first time.

sex happened 4-5 times for the next 4 or 6 months that she went there. she arranged her schedules so she can make sales calls to that area. in was during this period i noticed changes in her - conscious with her weight and appearance, different wardrobe (sexier), attitude, no sex with me, indifference, shaving "down under" with different styles, etc.

it was almost a year "after they stopped" before i saw a picture of them together and some old sms from the guy . that's when i started asking her about it. it took almost 3 years for her to finally admit about the affair.

her early reply as to why she did it - 1) if i hadn't fought with her during that night, she wouldn't have done it, i was the cause she had an affair 2) she wanted to find herself 3) she was tired of our marriage and she felt deserves to find happiness for herself as long as she wasn't neglecting her duties to her family 4) everybody was doing it, so she can tell her friends she also have a "side dish", and she thought i'll never find out 5) she wanted to validate herself 6) she wants to get back at me 7)etc, etc, etc....

one of her reasons for stopping is because "nothing good was coming out of it" - during the affair, her feeling of sadness and depression persisted. she was bitten by guilt. all she felt was "temporary escape" during the affair. she somewhat thought that the affair can solve her internal issues. but despite having sex with him many times, nothing really changed. she also said that she realized instead of pursuing a new relationship, she should be giving her energy in improving her own marriage.

guys, pardon me if my narrative seems to be short. i'm very tired. just last night we had another argument to which she shouted "...if it wasn't for you i wouldn't have had an affair!...if you hadn't neglected your wife, i wouldn't have fallen into someone elses arms!...you are the biggest reason for my affair!..."

what is this guys? --- did i really play a part as to the cause of her affair? did i misread her and our marriage all those years? 

i feel i'm just about to snap and just walk away as some of you suggest.

LosingHIM, thank you for your indulgence. somehow your reply enlightened me. 

many, many thanks to all of you....


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## sancheharri

yes, the MC suggested a book by Harley.

yes, i already asked her if the affair would have continued if those "expectations" were met - she replied "...i don't know because it didn't happen..."

well, at first, her reply to that question is - "...i don't know if he's true to me because i didn't care and i don't care now...but if you insist for an answer, i think he was true, honest, and open person to me..." .

she doesn't want to apologize to his wife because it would appear to him that were fighting over him and it would appear he matters a lot to us. that's what she's insisting - the guy DIDN'T MATTER to her at all. it's all about herself, about what she felt and what made her happy.


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## Malaise

Did you cause the affair? No. That's all on her. If you had neglected her it was her duty to tell you so.

She's rationalizing, deflecting, gaslighting...and so on.

She's responsible. No one else.

PS Did you ever tell his wife? Why not?


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## Malaise

sancheharri said:


> yes, the MC suggested a book by Harley.
> 
> yes, i already asked her if the affair would have continued if those "expectations" were met - she replied "...i don't know because it didn't happen..."
> 
> That's a lie
> 
> she doesn't want to apologize to his wife because it would appear to him that were fighting over him and it would appear he matters a lot to us. that's what she's insisting - the guy DIDN'T MATTER to her at all. it's all about herself, about what she felt and what made her happy.


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## sancheharri

malaise, i want to tell the wife. i just don't have the energy right now to search and travel all the way. i'm just exhausted to the point of dropping dead. perhaps one day when i recover my wits i will tell the om's wife...


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## Horizon

Hey, you do realise that once you get every ounce of info out of your WS that you will still wonder, you will still burn at the thought of it? I didn't get reconciliation but I know enough from being here that recon is an active thing - not words but actions. Look at the actions - there's your answer.


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## 225985

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## Taxman

Your wife is torturing you, how very cute.
See a lawyer and have divorce papers drawn up. 

First and foremost, your wife is a sl*t of the lowest kind. A good woman does not open her legs for another man as long as she is married. Tell her that she should start charging. At least her w**re a** could be earning her enough so that when she is kicked into the streets she can support herself.

The affair is too far in the past, tell the b*** to go. Toss her **** ass into the streets. You deserve better.


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## sancheharri

from what i see, i don't think and feel that she has changed fundamentally. i mean, she said it herself in one of our numerous arguments "...i am still the same person when you met me, i just made a mistake...you knew me way before that i have many male friends...this is who i am..." . she probably regrets and sorry for having the affair, she seems to be trying to make-up for that "mistake", but basically, she is still indeed the same person - outgoing and friendly to all her friends (men and women). when i see her with her friends, she behaves as if her marriage is not in serious trouble. geez, i'm not sure if i'm making sense here, guys. sorry...

yes, 4-year old boy. he was born before the affair, if i am to believe her story.

yeah, when she shouted that to me, it really hurt. she got me on that one i almost punched her mouth! i just walked-out to cool-off because it's embarassing to our two grown-up sons - their parents spilling their guts for everybody to hear.


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## drifting on

Sancheharri

First thing you need to do is 180. Second is to expose OM to his employer and wife. Third you need to have divorce papers drawn up and filed. Fourth you need to tell your wife that arguing does not mean to run into the arms of another. Fifth you need to tell your wife that locking your keys in your car is a mistake, having sex with someone is a choice. Sixth, tell your wife you have exposed OM to his work and wife, do not tell her until this is done. If she cries of gets mad at you say, I thought he didn't matter?!! Then 180 with exception to the kids.


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## drifting on

I forgot to mention, get into another argument with her and as you walk out the door tell her you're going to get laid.


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## Malaise

drifting on said:


> Sancheharri
> 
> First thing you need to do is 180. Second is to *expose OM to his employer *and wife. Third you need to have divorce papers drawn up and filed. Fourth you need to tell your wife that arguing does not mean to run into the arms of another. Fifth you need to tell your wife that locking your keys in your car is a mistake, having sex with someone is a choice. Sixth, tell your wife you have exposed OM to his work and wife, do not tell her until this is done. If she cries of gets mad at you say, I thought he didn't matter?!! Then 180 with exception to the kids.


Hotel management might not like the front desk staff banging the guests. Although, it does give new meaning to 'room service'


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## ConanHub

drifting on said:


> Sancheharri
> 
> First thing you need to do is 180. Second is to expose OM to his employer and wife. Third you need to have divorce papers drawn up and filed. Fourth you need to tell your wife that arguing does not mean to run into the arms of another. Fifth you need to tell your wife that locking your keys in your car is a mistake, having sex with someone is a choice. Sixth, tell your wife you have exposed OM to his work and wife, do not tell her until this is done. If she cries of gets mad at you say, I thought he didn't matter?!! Then 180 with exception to the kids.


Start here. Do this.

Get yourself rested and healthy again please!

DNA test your youngest, or possibly all your children, just to be sure.

The 4 year old is very suspect.

Your wife has zero remorse and is still an extremely disgusting blame shifting cheater.

Your child needs at least one healthy parent so get there.

Your marriage is toast for now. Leave the ashes for later examination.

Take care of yourself and your child first.

Your wayward wife is still an enemy. See clearly and understand.


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## ConanHub

Malaise said:


> Hotel management might not like the front desk staff banging the guests. Although, it does give new meaning to 'room service'


The vast majority of companies have a serious problem with employees using their time, resources and facilities to f customers.

The stupid prick needs stopped.


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## 225985

.


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## drifting on

Malaise said:


> Hotel management might not like the front desk staff banging the guests. Although, it does give new meaning to 'room service'




Especially if on company time, as I suspect that it is!!!


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## 225985

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## ConanHub

blueinbr said:


> Most mid to higher end hotels only staff attractive, friendly outgoing people at the front desk. It is intentional to help bring back the repeat business customers.


Good business model but unfortunately the OM decided to turn the hotel into a brothel.


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## honcho

sancheharri said:


> guys, pardon me if my narrative seems to be short. i'm very tired. just last night we had another argument to which she shouted "...if it wasn't for you i wouldn't have had an affair!...if you hadn't neglected your wife, i wouldn't have fallen into someone elses arms!...you are the biggest reason for my affair!..."


This one lone statement at this point should get you to realize it's divorce time. You were not responsible for her affair and she will accept no accountability. Do you really want to go thru the rest of your life trying to keep her happy? It's impossible. Your wife wants and craves attention, no matter how much you give she will want more. It's part of why the "pick me" dance never works, the craving for attention is like a bottomless pit, the more they get the more they crave. 

This is a problem with her. Even if you work at repairing this now in a year or two she will get bored, seek attention and your right back to square one. She believes she is without fault and can do no wrong, your not going to convince her otherwise and she's gonna go thru life with that attitude.


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## LosingHim

You cannot reconcile with this woman in this state.


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## jsmart

You need to DNA the 4 year old. According to what you believe is the time line, she was having a sexual affair with a baby that was a few months at home. That's a nasty woman. The more you reveal, the nastier she seems. 

Her supposedly only having sex with him 5 times is such a lie. Along with her saying she had no feelings for him. If that were so, why did she cut you off and do everything possible to up her sexiness for him. Because she was hoping to get him to leave his wife for her, hence why she felt it was not going anywhere.

Sounds like she wants to rug sweep and is indifferent to your pain. But you have to know what it is you're actually forgiving. Not sure if it matters to you. Does it make difference if you learn she did not 5 times but 50 times? Would it matter for you to learn she was swallowing and having anal? I ask because it is a common concern of most BHs. 

These things may not matter to you. But if it is a concern, you should insist she include all in a time line and insist on a poly based on the time line. Also include a question if there have been other affairs.


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## TRy

sancheharri said:


> yes, 4-year old boy. he was born before the affair, if i am to believe her story.


 Your wife has lied to you for many years about the affair, thus you have no idea when the affair really began. What you do know is that she may have known her affair partner before she got pregnant, may have started the affair before she got pregnant, and that it is likely that she would lie to you if the 4-year old was her affair partner's child.


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## Vinnydee

I have some experience with cheating girlfriends and spouses from both side of the coin. No one is going to tell their spouse the truth as it will not help at all. It will only make it worse, so they minimize the affair. Do you think she will tell you that she had the best sex of her life and wanted to do things with him that she never wanted to do to you. She is not going to tell you that she loved him which is why she kept on seeing him or that when with him, she never thought about you. She is going to tell you alternate facts to minimize the blow back from you. Never trust a cheater. I know from being one and having been cheated on. They will always lie to save the marriage and make you believe that it meant nothing to her even though she kept running back to his arms. Many cheating spouses want to tell their spouses that they cheated but that is not a good idea. It is just the cheater wanting to feel good by making their spouse feel bad. Very selfish and not the best course of action. Same applies here. The cheater is not going to make themselves feel good by telling you the whole truth, because it just makes a bad situation worse. Unless they hate you. 

The problem is that now the trust is lost and that takes a very long time to regain. Even then, it will never be the same as it was before the affair. You will not trust her when she is not with you, goes shopping for 4 hours, has to work late or is away on a business trip where you never can find out what she did. You will always have a knot in your stomach anytime she is not reachable or deviates from her normal routine. That is why I left my cheating fiancee and next girlfriend. I assure you that her cheating will be thrown in her face by you every time you have a fight. This is straight out of marriage counsellor articles. They advise the cheater to expect that their spouse will question them and bring it up for a long time until the hurt goes away. She will have to take it or leave you. 

I have always followed the psychological truth that a person's past behavior is a very could indicator of their future behavior. I know a few married women and men who got caught, and instead of stopping, just got better at hiding it. The sex with another person does not bother me. The lying does because an admitted liar is asking you to believe her story and promise not to cheat again. A promise by someone who is a proven liar and not worthy of your trust, is almost worthless.


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## 225985

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## sancheharri

i just had a long, deep sleep. it's been a while since i had a good rest. geez, i'd prefer not to wake-up anymore.

i discovered the affair when i saw a picture of them together and some sms from the guy on her smartfone (the admission came much later). i believe he's hotel staff because he's in uniform.

i already tried calling the hotel management a few months back, but they're not interested in assisting nor helping me. they told me to go in personally and file a formal complaint (it's in france, for pete's sake!). i guess those f*ckers tolerate such behaviours from their staff.

sorry guys if i seem to be incoherent, my mind is really messed-up.

yes, i suspect that's what it means when she said "...nothing good is coming out of the affair, and the expectations were not met..." - she fantasized about them living together. after repeatedly letting the guy use her for senseless sex, she was treated the same - as a friend or buddy. she was expecting the guy to fall in love and run away with her. i already asked her point-blank if she was in love with the guy, but she adamantly insist that "...she cannot admit to something she didn't feel during the affair..." . she even said that it was actually the guy who was "getting serious" by being over-protective and acting like a real boyfriend whenever they're alone together, and comparing her to his wife...it's really confusing - the guy is already "getting serious", and yet she says "nothing good was coming out of it...her expectations were not met..." ???

about the kid, i cannot comment on that yet. it didn't enter my mind. i've grown to love "my son" as my own. you got me speechless for a moment with that thought. gosh, what the hell is this mess!? 

yes, that's one of the biggest reasons i'm having nightmares - i somehow want to find a way to fix the situation for the sake of the kid, but i know in my heart that i'll never trust her again. 

i can't understand myself as to why i want to have answers even though at the back of my mind i'll never find the whole truth. i just want to drop it, but it keeps on bugging me all the time. i cannot have peace of mind if those questions are left hanging. perhaps i want to know how deeply (emotionally and physically) involved my wife is??? i know her answers are suspicious because of conflicting statements and she's a confirmed liar. that's why i guess i'm just willing to settle for rational opinions from complete strangers for there lingering questions in my mind.

oh yes, she also said one time that "she also really got hurt" with what happened...perhaps with what she has done to herself, to us...or perhaps she got hurt the affair didn't work-out after she sacrificed everything for him. i don't know...what do you think??


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## farsidejunky

You don't need to know what people think. You need to know what YOU think, and then ACT.


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## Andy1001

sancheharri said:


> i just had a long, deep sleep. it's been a while since i had a good rest. geez, i'd prefer not to wake-up anymore.
> 
> i discovered the affair when i saw a picture of them together and some sms from the guy on her smartfone (the admission came much later). i believe he's hotel staff because he's in uniform.
> 
> i already tried calling the hotel management a few months back, but they're not interested in assisting nor helping me. they told me to go in personally and file a formal complaint (it's in france, for pete's sake!). i guess those f*ckers tolerate such behaviours from their staff.
> 
> sorry guys if i seem to be incoherent, my mind is really messed-up.
> 
> yes, i suspect that's what it means when she said "...nothing good is coming out of the affair, and the expectations were not met..." - she fantasized about them living together. after repeatedly letting the guy use her for senseless sex, she was treated the same - as a friend or buddy. she was expecting the guy to fall in love and run away with her. i already asked her point-blank if she was in love with the guy, but she adamantly insist that "...she cannot admit to something she didn't feel during the affair..." . she even said that it was actually the guy who was "getting serious" by being over-protective and acting like a real boyfriend whenever they're alone together, and comparing her to his wife...it's really confusing - the guy is already "getting serious", and yet she says "nothing good was coming out of it...her expectations were not met..." ???
> 
> about the kid, i cannot comment on that yet. it didn't enter my mind. i've grown to love "my son" as my own. you got me speechless for a moment with that thought. gosh, what the hell is this mess!?
> 
> yes, that's one of the biggest reasons i'm having nightmares - i somehow want to find a way to fix the situation for the sake of the kid, but i know in my heart that i'll never trust her again.
> 
> i can't understand myself as to why i want to have answers even though at the back of my mind i'll never find the whole truth. i just want to drop it, but it keeps on bugging me all the time. i cannot have peace of mind if those questions are left hanging. perhaps i want to know how deeply (emotionally and physically) involved my wife is??? i know her answers are suspicious because of conflicting statements and she's a confirmed liar. that's why i guess i'm just willing to settle for rational opinions from complete strangers for there lingering questions in my mind.
> 
> oh yes, she also said one time that "she also really got hurt" with what happened...perhaps with what she has done to herself, to us...or perhaps she got hurt the affair didn't work-out after she sacrificed everything for him. i don't know...what do you think??


Is this how you want to live the rest of your life,with a liar and a cheat and not wanting to wake up in the morning.For your own peace of mind you need to separate from your wife at least for a while,if she won't leave then you may have to.Stop carrying on this pretence in front of friends and family that everything is fine,tell your family what happened and that you are contemplating divorce.For your own peace of mind I would do the DNA test on your son,let your wife know you are doing it and her reaction should be very telling.If she tries to stop you then she is not one hundred percent certain that the child is yours.Even if she tells you to go ahead the thought that you are having doubts should waken her up to how much damage she has done to you and your marriage.
Is she still traveling for work and how can you be sure the affair is over or even if it is the first one she has had.She is manipulating you and you are enabling her,she is only concerned with herself and if she finds a better affair partner next time she will leave you for him.


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## eric1

blueinbr said:


> OP, any chance your wife is lying and that the OM is a current coworker?
> 
> How did you find out the cheating?




This is a big reason why exposure is critical, right now his only source of info is a person he knows is lying.

Also DO NOT LET HER KNOW YOU ARE CALLING


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## 225985

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## Malaise

sancheharri said:


> iyes, i suspect that's what it means when she said "...nothing good is coming out of the affair, and the expectations were not met..." - *she fantasized about them living together*. after repeatedly letting the guy use her for senseless sex, she was treated the same - as a friend or buddy. she was expecting the guy to fall in love and run away with her. i already asked her point-blank* if she was in love with the guy, but she adamantly insist that "...she cannot admit to something she didn't feel during the affair*..." . she even said that it was actually the guy who was "getting serious" by being over-protective and acting like a real boyfriend whenever they're alone together, and comparing her to his wife...it's really confusing - the guy is already "getting serious", and yet she says "nothing good was coming out of it...her expectations were not met..." ???
> 
> 
> oh yes, she also said one time that "*she also really got hurt" with what happened*...perhaps with what she has done to herself, to us...or perhaps she got hurt the affair didn't work-out after she sacrificed everything for him. i don't know...what do you think??



She wouldn't have fantasied about him if there weren't feelings for him, not just lust.

And she wouldn't have been hurt either.

She's contradicting her own lies , with other lies.

You'll never get a straight answer, the truth, or remorse from her.


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## jsmart

Your apathy has me shaking my head in disbelief. Are you truly not willing to stand up for yourself? It seems like you feel you have no options and you can do is shrug you're shoulders and take another bit of an excrement sandwich.

The more you reveal the more sure I am that she wanted to dump you and run off with this guy. With a newborn at home it is not normal for a wife to engage in a sexual PA, unless is was going on BEFORE and during the pregnancy. That would point to her believing the baby might have been his. He was even becoming protective of her, which points to him thinking she had his baby. 

You better DNA the kid. It's for piece of mind. I would do it in front of her so she can see how her betrayal has caused you to question everything.

It is only that he, like most men, wasn't willing to divorce his wife and leave his kid(s) to take a chance with an adulterous woman. Very bad odds. But if he would have been one of those irrational men that follows his feelings like a woman, there's no doubt that she would be in his bed now.

With your wife traveling for work, you need to find out if there have been other affairs. Traveling extroverts of both sexes are HIGHLY likely to engage in affairs, especially ONS.


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## smi11ie

It sounds like a sexual affair. It doesn't sound like an emotional affair too much. Problems probably lie in the bedroom.


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## sancheharri

guys, i hope you'll have to patience to engage me here even though i sound just ranting like a headless chicken. i have nobody to talk to, yet, so i'm here asking and pouring out my anguish. i'm not ready to involve other people in this mess. i want to tell my family and hers about this, soon. i want to untangle my mind first before going on the offensive.

i find it strange finding some comfort with complete strangers. i guess the anonimity in these forums helps to alleviate the embarassment.

i'm taking in all your suggestions, especially the DNA test. i'm starting to feel sorry for the kid. it's heartbreaking...but i agree, it has to be done.

i recall now that i told her i'm calling the hotel management to report this behaviour, but she only said she doesn't care because she doesn't care about him at all. strange, because when i challenged her to apologize to his wife - she made the excuse of not wanting the guy to think that he still matters to us years after the affair ended. i'm guessing she wants to appear to be tough or "cool" to him about their affair...that she already has forgotten about him. 

yes, i suspect there are other transgressions i don't know yet. but i don't know where to look for evidence. she has most probably erased all other traces, if there are other cheating incidents. 

i already told her to quit her job, but she refused. that's what her parents told her a long time ago - never quit her job(no matter what) so she can stand-up for herself and not rely on anybody else.

i observed she's acting "normal", i mean she's acting (pretending?) like nothing terrible happened. she's avoiding confrontations?

i'm sorry guys for my piecemeal story. memories come and go at this point. a lot of things has happened. a lot of arguments, shouting, etc. my brain is just like a warzone right now. 

guys - IS MY WIFE A HOPELESS CASE?... can this marriage be redeemed? 

i'm aware now that i have become a "fall-back guy" because the affair didn't work-out. her affair was a lot more serious and has deeper meaning for her than she wants me to believe. a lot of you say divorce now, but my biggest concern is about the kid. it's not that i'm findig excuses to stay, but why make the kid suffer for his parents' misdeeds?...he's innocent in all of this.


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## sancheharri

smi11ie said:


> It sounds like a sexual affair. It doesn't sound like an emotional affair too much. Problems probably lie in the bedroom.


smi11ie, can you kindly elaborate as to why you think it's purely physical and didn't involve too much emotions as she always insist? TIA.


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## Thor

There are two main reasons to DNA your child.

1) It tells your wife just how deeply she has damaged your ability to trust her. It shows her you do not believe anything she says unless there is solid proof of it. Thus she loses her confidence in being able to successfully lie to you. She should become more willing to be fully honest with you. Basically this is part of Shock and Awe, where you are trying to impress on her that her fantasy of you just ignoring everything is not going to happen.

2) Determine the true paternity of the child. If he is yours, perfect! If he is not, there may be legal ramifications. If you divorce, you may or may not be required to pay child support. The true father may be required to pay support. False paternity may be helpful in your divorce settlement. As mentioned by someone else, your child deserves to know his paternity for medical history reasons alone.

Neither of those 2 reasons would change your love for him nor your desire to remain his Dad. I am a big believer in true facts being the basis of a correct outcome. Better to know the truth and go from there rather than live in uncertainty and falsehood.


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## Thor

sancheharri said:


> guys - IS MY WIFE A HOPELESS CASE?... can this marriage be redeemed?


Imho, at this time yes she is. She is not doing what needs to be done to restore your ability to trust her. Once that process is well under way, the next thing is to rebuild a new healthy marriage with her. She has to own what she did. She has to understand why she did it and what it is in her which lets her do things which are so harmful to you and to her son. She has to be able to explain all of this to you. She has to come to hate what she did for the reason it was so harmful to you.

Without a major course change, nothing is going to change.




sancheharri said:


> i'm aware now that i have become a "fall-back guy" because the affair didn't work-out. her affair was a lot more serious and has deeper meaning for her than she wants me to believe. a lot of you say divorce now, but my biggest concern is about the kid. it's not that i'm findig excuses to stay, but why make the kid suffer for his parents' misdeeds?...he's innocent in all of this.


He will be harmed by this affair. Whether you stay together or get divorced, he will be harmed. You staying with her in a bad marriage is not healthy for the child. He will learn about relationships by watching you as he grows up. In a bad marriage he will see dysfunctional behaviors, which he will then do when he is an adult. If you divorce, he can observe you and his mother working cooperatively as parents even though you are not together. Hopefully you will have a new healthy relationship with a woman, perhaps even marry her, which your son will observe. You will then model a healthy way to have a relationship, which your son can learn from.

Ideally your son grows up in a healthy happy home with both parents. At this point in time that option is not happening.


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## honcho

sancheharri said:


> guys, i hope you'll have to patience to engage me here even though i sound just ranting like a headless chicken. i have nobody to talk to, yet, so i'm here asking and pouring out my anguish. i'm not ready to involve other people in this mess. i want to tell my family and hers about this, soon. i want to untangle my mind first before going on the offensive.
> 
> i find it strange finding some comfort with complete strangers. i guess the anonimity in these forums helps to alleviate the embarassment.
> 
> i'm taking in all your suggestions, especially the DNA test. i'm starting to feel sorry for the kid. it's heartbreaking...but i agree, it has to be done.
> 
> i recall now that i told her i'm calling the hotel management to report this behaviour, but she only said she doesn't care because she doesn't care about him at all. strange, because when i challenged her to apologize to his wife - she made the excuse of not wanting the guy to think that he still matters to us years after the affair ended. i'm guessing she wants to appear to be tough or "cool" to him about their affair...that she already has forgotten about him.
> 
> yes, i suspect there are other transgressions i don't know yet. but i don't know where to look for evidence. she has most probably erased all other traces, if there are other cheating incidents.
> 
> i already told her to quit her job, but she refused. that's what her parents told her a long time ago - never quit her job(no matter what) so she can stand-up for herself and not rely on anybody else.
> 
> i observed she's acting "normal", i mean she's acting (pretending?) like nothing terrible happened. she's avoiding confrontations?
> 
> i'm sorry guys for my piecemeal story. memories come and go at this point. a lot of things has happened. a lot of arguments, shouting, etc. my brain is just like a warzone right now.
> 
> guys - IS MY WIFE A HOPELESS CASE?... can this marriage be redeemed?
> 
> i'm aware now that i have become a "fall-back guy" because the affair didn't work-out. her affair was a lot more serious and has deeper meaning for her than she wants me to believe. a lot of you say divorce now, but my biggest concern is about the kid. it's not that i'm findig excuses to stay, but why make the kid suffer for his parents' misdeeds?...he's innocent in all of this.


She is still protecting the OM and almost every spin on the story she has told you is probably a lie. She most likely got dumped by him If dumped at all. If he still works at hotel, it's probably still going on. In general terms women don't have affairs without emotions in play, a random ONS is a different matter but not when it comes to an affair. 

She is telling you what she thinks you want to hear, not the truth and not what she thinks. Your getting played. 

You also need to quit tying everything to her, your wife had an affair, she has lied for years about it. She is trying to rugsweep, minimize it and not help you heal and is more concerned about protecting herself and her affair partner. At this point you need to start healing yourself, without her as she won't help. 

This is part of the crap sandwich every BS has to eat, your NEVER going to get the answers you want. It's always leads to more questions and then more questions. Your wife had an affair and she continues to lie about it. What are you trying to save? She is trying to save nothing.


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## She'sStillGotIt

sancheharri said:


> ...i mentioned to her going through a lie-detector test, but she insists on just moving on and try to start over rebuilding.


Golly, what a surprise. A *LIAR* doesn't want to be subjected to a polygraph. How unusual.



> She pleads that she's remorseful and she's dealing with it herself - the remorse, shame, guilt, etc.


Yeah, she's got *tons *of THAT.

I need to point out some ugly truths to you (since you're not getting any truth from this liar). This guy was probably not her *first *rodeo. That's another reason she doesn't want to be hooked up to a poly because often times, a betrayed spouse will have the examiner ask if the cheater has been with anyone ELSE besides the one you know about. In her case, I'd be willing to bet my right arm she *has* and she ain't about to let YOU find out about it. Let's face it - she's a remorseless LIAR who would have taken this secret with her to the GRAVE, lying to your face every single day for the rest of her life _*had you not uncovered the truth*_. So she's a MASTER liar who has no problem deceiving you. If she was able to cover this affair up so easily, how many *more *is she still hiding? I wouldn't believe a thing out of her mouth..

Secondly, I find it amazing that she's* suddenly *filled with all this 'guilt, remorse and shame' only after she was caught. All during her affair and the two years the liar managed to successfully HIDE this from you - where was all this 'guilt, remorse and shame' then? She sure didn't have it before or she would have confessed to you what she'd done. That's what TRUE remorse is - it drives you to be honest enough to take your lumps because the emotional health of your betrayed spouse TRUMPS your own selfish desire to save your own hide.

I don't recall you mentioning her doing this at all, coming to you and confessing - even though she claims to be OH SO remorseful. What a liar.

Add on the fact that she was NEVER going to tell you at* all*, and that completely belies her utter bull**** claim of having all this shame, remorse and guilt. What a crock of steaming manure _that_ is. If she were *capable* of feeling guilt, remorse or shame, she wouldn't have been able to so successfully DECEIVE you for years without so much as batting an eye.

If you choose to reconcile with this liar, be prepared to deal with *more cheating *in the future. Take that to the bank. Remorseless cheaters just cheat again and again. She has absolutely ZERO regard for your feelings and is ALL about covering her own pitiful hide.


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## just got it 55

Thor said:


> She is remorseless. She, maybe, feels bad about being caught. When she says she is working on it herself and just wants you to move on, she is showing zero empathy and zero concern for you. Heartless is what she is.


I can't take credit for this but here goes

Saying I'm sorry is meaninless It has zero value

The best apoligy is better behaviour

Remorse is I'm sorry I broke your window I will pay to fix it or better yet replace it
with my own two hands.

Very easy to get the distinction

55


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## Robbie1234

Your wife isn't a hopeless case but you are.She has spelled it out for you that you are a poor second choice and if things had worked out with the other man or men you would have got the door.I think someone threatened to expose her and that's why she owned up.She doesn't give a **** about you or your marriage and you need to take off the blinkers and accept that.


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## drifting on

Sancheharri

Is your wife a lost case? No, but the question you need to ask yourself is, is she capable of reconciliation? At this time I would definitely say no. Your wife has not accepted anything about her affair. The affair is hers to own one hundred percent, you have no fault in the affair UNLESS, she discussed having sex with a hotel clerk with you. I suspect she did not, which leaves the fault squarely on her. As for blaming you, you own half of the marriage problems, that you need to work on. When I told you to argue with her and then walk out telling her you are going out to get laid shows how stupid her comment is that your fight with her made her chest. 

Cheating is a choice, your wife nor the OM fell on each other and there privates become joined. No, she made an active choice to betray you using infidelity. If she says it just happened that's a crock of **** too. She told you she planned to keep going to this hotel. The only positive I see in her now is that she ended the affair on her own accord. Well, if it has indeed stopped. 

As for your head clearing, you don't get much time here, your response is critical to the outcome of your marriage. Find a good friend of yours, confide in them, then get your head out of your ass. At the moment you are in shock, I get that, I was there, but you need to firmly choose a course for you. Reconciliation, now isn't an option because of where your wife is at. She is not remorseful, if she were remorseful she wouldn't ever even think you drove her to do it much less verbalized that horse **** statement. Find your anger, let it drive you forward, but do not let her bully you with words. 

Get to a lawyer, file the divorce papers, lost adultery and I'm as the cause. Have her served at work. Call her parents and tell them, then tell yours. That's all the exposure you will need to do at the moment. You can also use exposure later for leverage such as at her employer. If you do decide to expose to her employer, do it after the divorce is final. 

Whatever you choose, and divorce is the only option SHE has left you go ahead at full speed. You can always stop it if you choose to. The biggest thing you have to accept is your marriage died the moment her affair began. If you really want this marriage, then you need to want to lose it also. That's the only way forward you have. 

Many of us who first came here were just as lost as you or worse. Yes, writing it out can be cathartic, but you need to put an action forward also. Trust me I cried, I didn't feel like a man, I was humiliated, I was destroyed, I was devastated, but you got to get back on one knee now. Yes I got dropped again finding out the paternity of my boys, but again I got to one knee then I stood again. If you don't know my story, my wife cheated for six months, work place affair, and the boys we have are a product of her affair. But the boys are mine, I am their father. The point is sancheharri, you need to begin taking actions now, not later, not when your head clears. Your head isn't going to begin to clear until you start taking actions. 

Get her attention, move her **** from the bedroom to a different room. Tell her the marital bed is for those who keep their vows and own their ****. Stop talking to her, do the 180, stand up and begin to fight the bully.


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## jlg07

sancheharri said:


> it's during one of these sales calls that she met the other guy - a hotel front desk officer. she describes him as a playful and attentive, and they hit it off immediately because they have similar personalities.
> 
> at first, she found him good-looking but treated him as one of the guys. greetings and smiles turned into short conversations, then progressed to lengthy talks about work, children, etc. lots of laughters and fun.
> 
> my wife says she knew the guy for almost a year before it turned into full-blown affair. everytime she travelled to that place, he was always there giving her "special treatment" - assisting with her needs, assigning the best room available, and even bringing her coffee and donuts. she felt they became "close".
> 
> she said that she began thinking about him, fantasizing about having sex with him a few months prior to their first sex encounter. she said she didn't feel it's wrong because those were "just fantasies" anyway. and they were just good friends. no guilt.
> 
> in one of her trips to that place, we had a fight before she went away. it was during that time that the guy came with her up to her room to carry her packages. she let him in so they could hang-out a little. he was "just a friend" anyway. it was this instance that they found themselves making-out, but no sex. but before leaving, the guy asked her if he could see her the next day - early in the morning. she said she knew what his intention was and what will happen, but she said yes anyway. they had sex for the first time.
> 
> sex happened 4-5 times for the next 4 or 6 months that she went there. she arranged her schedules so she can make sales calls to that area. in was during this period i noticed changes in her - conscious with her weight and appearance, different wardrobe (sexier), attitude, no sex with me, indifference, shaving "down under" with different styles, etc.
> 
> it was almost a year "after they stopped" before i saw a picture of them together and some old sms from the guy . that's when i started asking her about it. it took almost 3 years for her to finally admit about the affair.
> 
> her early reply as to why she did it - 1) if i hadn't fought with her during that night, she wouldn't have done it, i was the cause she had an affair 2) she wanted to find herself 3) she was tired of our marriage and she felt deserves to find happiness for herself as long as she wasn't neglecting her duties to her family 4) everybody was doing it, so she can tell her friends she also have a "side dish", and she thought i'll never find out 5) she wanted to validate herself 6) she wants to get back at me 7)etc, etc, ...


So EVERYTHING here is complete bull****. The affair is 100% her fault. Nothing to do with you. Yes maybe the marriage could have been better so that is on both of you but the affair is all on her. Issues in the marriage didn't cause YOU to cheat, did it? The affair stopped because he probably dumped her. 
All of her excuses are crap. She did it because she is selfish and wanted to. Also her "everyone is doing it" makes me think she discussed this with friends who probably supported this and you need to find out WHO they are and they need to be gone from her life. 

You need to read more stories here about cheating wives and the ONLY ones that seem to resolve well are if you play hardball and go for the divorce. You can always stop it at some point if you want to R. You will not find out the truths you want workout putting on the pressure.


----------



## Marc878

sancheharri said:


> from what i see, i don't think and feel that she has changed fundamentally. i mean, she said it herself in one of our numerous arguments "...i am still the same person when you met me, *i just made a mistake.*..you knew me way before that i have many male friends...this is who i am..." . she probably regrets and sorry for having the affair, she seems to be trying to make-up for that "mistake", but basically, she is still indeed the same person - outgoing and friendly to all her friends (men and women). when i see her with her friends, she behaves as if her marriage is not in serious trouble. geez, i'm not sure if i'm making sense here, guys. sorry...
> 
> Nope sure wasn't. It was a conscious decision on her part over and over
> 
> yes, 4-year old boy. he was born before the affair, if i am to believe her story.
> 
> DNA the child you just don't know.
> 
> yeah, when she shouted that to me, it really hurt. she got me on that one i almost punched her mouth! i just walked-out to cool-off because it's embarassing to our two grown-up sons - their parents spilling their guts for everybody to hear.


Your wife does as she pleases and as long as you stay in the Mr Nice guy mode you're gonna get what you've been getting.

Your actions or rather your inactions tell her this. She knows you and is playing you.

Talking, talking more talking and you got what? 

Read up pal you need to apply this. It's a short read.
https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf

It's a short read. You can't fix or change your wife. The affair is 100% on her how you are handling this is on you.

Helping hide their affair as you're doing just makes you an accomplice. Perhaps the other mans wife could have more info. You just do some detective work online and find her number, Facebook profile, work etc. *you call her up and tell her without warning.* if you say anything to your wife they'll conspire against you. You may be surprised at what you learn.

Why are you so afraid? You seem paralyzed with fear. Does your wife have so much control over you? Do you value yourself so little?

Why?


----------



## Marc878

Don't project your feelings of love, etc on your wife. Obviously she doesn't feel the same about you as you do her. This is a typical trap.

Advice is worthless unless you apply it.

You need to wake the hell up.


----------



## Malaise

OP needs to get angry. Very angry.

He's not even close.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

It's clear that she has no respect for you and takes you for granted. Like others have said, it's because you've just been too nice and accommodating. This is sort of a vicious cycle. The more you forgave her affair, the less she respected you. Her attraction and interest in you diminished as a result, and she no longer has a desire to win you back. In turn, you accommodate more, hoping to draw her closer. It just doesn't work that way. 

Whether you decide to stay or go, the respect issue needs to be fixed. If she hasn't woken up by now, it's time to indeed file for divorce and let her witness the DNA test.


----------



## BobSimmons

sancheharri said:


> thanks, guys. yes, i get your points. right now, i'm confused. divorce is on the table, but i'm frozen. a lot of things going in my mind. badly need answers or rational opinions about her confusing statements. i need to have a sensible perspective as to what really happened and the truth.
> 
> if she can't give out the whole picture of her affair, at the very least, i'm willing to settle for reasonable opinions, or alternative answers to some of these questions above. i'm really confused with what she is saying. her statements seem to be completely opposite to other words that came out of her.
> 
> she says she wants to work it out, but i can't seem to move on without answers to these questions in my mind.


She banged another bloke, had her fun, did all sorts with him, you get to ask why she repeatedly kept banging him, basically cleaning up the mess, then if you're lucky sit in front of a tv together while you ask yourself "lingering questions"..


----------



## stixx

blueinbr said:


> Of course you love your son and he will always be yours. But you owe it to him to confirm his biological parentage for his future health care. Normally a doctor will ask you about your parents' health in determining your risk for certain diseases.
> 
> You need to do this. For your son's protection.


This is a ridiculous reason to DNA his child. 

So what if he's at "greater risk" for getting a particular disease. Is he supposed to do things differently if there's a 1/100 chance of getting Huntingtons disease or Tay Sach's disease because it's a genetic disease with a small but not insignificant inheritance rate?

What about all the adopted kids where they know nothing about the parents?

You think even if they DNA the kid and find out he isn't the father he'll have any luck in a) determining who the real father is and b) even if he does the father will cooperate in any way and give him the family history of diseases?

Please. This is just nonsense saying to DNA the kid for his own "protection". 

As far as the Op goes- it's not your "fault" she had an affair but yes you are partially responsible for the problems in the marriage that led up to it, if you ignored the signs that she was being neglected and her needs weren't being met.

As far as how you're handling it now, looking for answers you'll never get, and even if you did you wouldn't know if they were true, you're handling the situation extremely poorly. Once you find yourself asking your cheating wife if she ever loved the guy who was banging her, you have already lost.

She may have cheated because she simply has no respect for you, and it appears she might have good reason. Your actions to date simply reek of desperation, and it's just pathetic and sad. Don't expect a positive response from her until and unless you man up. Even then, it's questionable but at least you might have a chance to stay with this remorseless cheater who blames you for everything.


----------



## eric1

sancheharri said:


> guys, i hope you'll have to patience to engage me here even though i sound just ranting like a headless chicken. i have nobody to talk to, yet, so i'm here asking and pouring out my anguish. i'm not ready to involve other people in this mess. i want to tell my family and hers about this, soon. i want to untangle my mind first before going on the offensive.
> 
> 
> 
> i find it strange finding some comfort with complete strangers. i guess the anonimity in these forums helps to alleviate the embarassment.
> 
> 
> 
> i'm taking in all your suggestions, especially the DNA test. i'm starting to feel sorry for the kid. it's heartbreaking...but i agree, it has to be done.
> 
> 
> 
> i recall now that i told her i'm calling the hotel management to report this behaviour, but she only said she doesn't care because she doesn't care about him at all. strange, because when i challenged her to apologize to his wife - she made the excuse of not wanting the guy to think that he still matters to us years after the affair ended. i'm guessing she wants to appear to be tough or "cool" to him about their affair...that she already has forgotten about him.
> 
> 
> 
> yes, i suspect there are other transgressions i don't know yet. but i don't know where to look for evidence. she has most probably erased all other traces, if there are other cheating incidents.
> 
> 
> 
> i already told her to quit her job, but she refused. that's what her parents told her a long time ago - never quit her job(no matter what) so she can stand-up for herself and not rely on anybody else.
> 
> 
> 
> i observed she's acting "normal", i mean she's acting (pretending?) like nothing terrible happened. she's avoiding confrontations?
> 
> 
> 
> i'm sorry guys for my piecemeal story. memories come and go at this point. a lot of things has happened. a lot of arguments, shouting, etc. my brain is just like a warzone right now.
> 
> 
> 
> guys - IS MY WIFE A HOPELESS CASE?... can this marriage be redeemed?
> 
> 
> 
> i'm aware now that i have become a "fall-back guy" because the affair didn't work-out. her affair was a lot more serious and has deeper meaning for her than she wants me to believe. a lot of you say divorce now, but my biggest concern is about the kid. it's not that i'm findig excuses to stay, but why make the kid suffer for his parents' misdeeds?...he's innocent in all of this.




Having her write a complete timeline and then polygraph her on it is your next step. Don't tell her about the poly until you have the timeline in your hands.

She doesn't want to quit her job and you're letting her. She could look for a new job, but her job is more important to her than your happiness. Sorry for being blunt but it's what it is


----------



## bandit.45

sancheharri said:


> smi11ie, can you kindly elaborate as to why you think it's purely physical and didn't involve too much emotions as she always insist? TIA.


WHO CARES? :surprise:

Why do you care? What earthly difference does any of it make? Here Are the facts: She's a lying cheat who blames her affair on you and refuses to accept responsibility for her destructive choices. She's not sorry. Not one bit. And if she gets the chance to do it again she will. 

You are confused because you want to be. All this shoegazing is pointless. Decide what you want! Do you want to be a neutered drone there to catch her every time she decides to go out and screw her marriage up for selfish reasons, or are you going to take back your self-respect and show the tramp the door?


----------



## sancheharri

keep it coming, guys. reading and contemplating on your replies somehow relieves the confusion in my mind. my own suspicions are being validated and i'm beginning to understand or have an idea about her affair. at the very least, i now have a rough picture of what truly happened. i beginning to feel it won't be long before i make my move.

btw, i hacked her email a while ago and i took a peek (i usually don't do this). and this is her exact message to her father -

"...dad, please help me on this one. you and mom know that i'm an independent person since i was a child. i don't involve others in resolving my problems as much i can. but i can't handle this anymore...i need your help. please talk to ***(me) man to man. please help me convince him to stay and work-out our marriage. i know a made a terrible mistake, and i'm truly sorry for what i've done to my husband, to myself, and my children. i know i've caused you much disappoinment, but i'm pleading with you to help me on this. i caused all of this, he's not to blame in anyway. my pride and selfishness caused my downfall, and i accept all the responsibility. i'm pleading to you, dad, please help me..."

it turns out she already told her family about our problem. 

i am going to tell my family about this. i realized it's long overdue. i don't wanna involve others and cause them undue disappointment but they have to know.

i want to try that "180" tactic, but there is this worry in me that this might become another reason or excuse for her to fool around again. i'm still split between moving on without her or try to save and work it out.

there's a very strong urge in me to find out more about the affair. i want it to disappear. i can't stand the pain and mental torture. i don't understand it myself as to why i can't shake it off. well, i've read that "it's normal" for betrayed spouses (it's comforting somehow) to feel this way. 

and there's this article i've read somewhere that suggests all these pain and mental torture is caused by our brain being "re-wired". re-wired in the sense that our brain have been wired and used to the "old truth" that our spouses are good people. then all of a sudden here comes a "new reality" that our spouses are different from what our brain used to know. our brain is now "re-booting or re-wiring" it's neurons to this new reality. and that is what's causing the pain. the author suggested to just ride it out, accept and absorb the pain as long as you can, and wait for your brain to adjust to this "new reality". 

any comment to this approach? comments about her email to the in-laws?


----------



## honcho

sancheharri said:


> keep it coming, guys. reading and contemplating on your replies somehow relieves the confusion in my mind. my own suspicions are being validated and i'm beginning to understand or have an idea about her affair. at the very least, i now have a rough picture of what truly happened. i beginning to feel it won't be long before i make my move.
> 
> btw, i hacked her email a while ago and i took a peek (i usually don't do this). and this is her exact message to her father -
> 
> "...dad, please help me on this one. you and mom know that i'm an independent person since i was a child. i don't involve others in resolving my problems as much i can. but i can't handle this anymore...i need your help. please talk to ***(me) man to man. please help me convince him to stay and work-out our marriage. i know a made a terrible mistake, and i'm truly sorry for what i've done to my husband, to myself, and my children. i know i've caused you much disappoinment, but i'm pleading with you to help me on this. i caused all of this, he's not to blame in anyway. my pride and selfishness caused my downfall, and i accept all the responsibility. i'm pleading to you, dad, please help me..."
> 
> it turns out she already told her family about our problem.
> 
> i am going to tell my family about this. i realized it's long overdue. i don't wanna involve others and cause them undue disappointment but they have to know.
> 
> i want to try that "180" tactic, but there is this worry in me that this might become another reason or excuse for her to fool around again. i'm still split between moving on without her or try to save and work it out.
> 
> there's a very strong urge in me to find out more about the affair. i want it to disappear. i can't stand the pain and mental torture. i don't understand it myself as to why i can't shake it off. well, i've read that "it's normal" for betrayed spouses (it's comforting somehow) to feel this way.
> 
> and there's this article i've read somewhere that suggests all these pain and mental torture is caused by our brain being "re-wired". re-wired in the sense that our brain have been wired and used to the "old truth" that our spouses are good people. then all of a sudden here comes a "new reality" that our spouses are different from what our brain used to know. our brain is now "re-booting or re-wiring" it's neurons to this new reality. and that is what's causing the pain. the author suggested to just ride it out, accept and absorb the pain as long as you can, and wait for your brain to adjust to this "new reality".
> 
> any comment to this approach? comments about her email to the in-laws?


You don't really have any idea what she told or didn't tell her family, she isn't being honest with you why would she be to her parents. 

Until she is willing to work on saving the marriage the point is mute so what are you split about? The only this you have worked on is being dependent on her and allowing her to control this entire thing. 

If you wanna wait and ride the pain train till your brain "rewires" itself go ahead or you can start taking control of your life and dealing with the pain and ending it much quicker.


----------



## 225985

stixx said:


> This is a ridiculous reason to DNA his child.
> 
> So what if he's at "greater risk" for getting a particular disease. Is he supposed to do things differently if there's a 1/100 chance of getting Huntingtons disease or Tay Sach's disease because it's a genetic disease with a small but not insignificant inheritance rate?
> 
> What about all the adopted kids where they know nothing about the parents?
> 
> You think even if they DNA the kid and find out he isn't the father he'll have any luck in a) determining who the real father is and b) even if he does the father will cooperate in any way and give him the family history of diseases?
> 
> Please. This is just nonsense saying to DNA the kid for his own "protection".
> 
> As far as the Op goes- it's not your "fault" she had an affair but yes you are partially responsible for the problems in the marriage that led up to it, if you ignored the signs that she was being neglected and her needs weren't being met.
> 
> As far as how you're handling it now, looking for answers you'll never get, and even if you did you wouldn't know if they were true, you're handling the situation extremely poorly. Once you find yourself asking your cheating wife if she ever loved the guy who was banging her, you have already lost.
> 
> She may have cheated because she simply has no respect for you, and it appears she might have good reason. Your actions to date simply reek of desperation, and it's just pathetic and sad. Don't expect a positive response from her until and unless you man up. Even then, it's questionable but at least you might have a chance to stay with this remorseless cheater who blames you for everything.




If you Browse the internet, you will know I'm right.


----------



## 225985

sancheharri said:


> keep it coming, guys. reading and contemplating on your replies somehow relieves the confusion in my mind. my own suspicions are being validated and i'm beginning to understand or have an idea about her affair. at the very least, i now have a rough picture of what truly happened. i beginning to feel it won't be long before i make my move.
> 
> btw, i hacked her email a while ago and i took a peek (i usually don't do this). and this is her exact message to her father -
> 
> "...dad, please help me on this one. you and mom know that i'm an independent person since i was a child. i don't involve others in resolving my problems as much i can. but i can't handle this anymore...i need your help. please talk to ***(me) man to man. please help me convince him to stay and work-out our marriage. i know a made a terrible mistake, and i'm truly sorry for what i've done to my husband, to myself, and my children. i know i've caused you much disappoinment, but i'm pleading with you to help me on this. i caused all of this, he's not to blame in anyway. my pride and selfishness caused my downfall, and i accept all the responsibility. i'm pleading to you, dad, please help me..."
> 
> it turns out she already told her family about our problem.
> 
> i am going to tell my family about this. i realized it's long overdue. i don't wanna involve others and cause them undue disappointment but they have to know.
> 
> i want to try that "180" tactic, but there is this worry in me that this might become another reason or excuse for her to fool around again. i'm still split between moving on without her or try to save and work it out.
> 
> there's a very strong urge in me to find out more about the affair. i want it to disappear. i can't stand the pain and mental torture. i don't understand it myself as to why i can't shake it off. well, i've read that "it's normal" for betrayed spouses (it's comforting somehow) to feel this way.
> 
> and there's this article i've read somewhere that suggests all these pain and mental torture is caused by our brain being "re-wired". re-wired in the sense that our brain have been wired and used to the "old truth" that our spouses are good people. then all of a sudden here comes a "new reality" that our spouses are different from what our brain used to know. our brain is now "re-booting or re-wiring" it's neurons to this new reality. and that is what's causing the pain. the author suggested to just ride it out, accept and absorb the pain as long as you can, and wait for your brain to adjust to this "new reality".
> 
> any comment to this approach? comments about her email to the in-laws?



Wow. Great email. I wish you had told us this earlier. And the other details rather than trickling the info in.

She seems remorseful. She made a mistake. You probably should help her forgive herself.


----------



## farsidejunky

No lifeline yet. If she does not learn to swallow her pride now, it will continue to be a barrier.

"Wife, you can have your pride, or you can let it go and actually do the things necessary for us to reconcile. You cannot have both. Choosing not to decide is still choosing pride. Every hour of every day that goes by with you still choosing pride is killing my love for you, reducing the likelihood of our marriage being saved."


----------



## manfromlamancha

Sancheharri, you need to understand a few things that have been said by others and I am going to list for you:


Your wife is an "independent" person. Her profession allows her to exercise this independence in every way. She is the type of person that will fvck around, knowing she enjoys it thoroughly and can get away with it. She has almost certainly been doing this for some time and this is not her first rodeo (one of the reasons you do the DNA test on your kid).


She is completely remorseless when it comes to damage that she would inflict on you if you found out. When you did find out she is only sorry that she got caught, sorry that she might lose her marriage BUT not sorry that she did it and hurt you deeply (she has NO empathy whatsoever). This is not the type of person you sustain a loving relationship with let alone a marriage - and it doesn't matter how late in the marriage you discover this. The faster you get away from her the better. She is showing no remorse and even tries to put the blame on you (which is how she justifies it deep down no matter what she says to her parents or anybody else).


The staff at the hotel in France are probably having a good laugh about it. I am guessing the POSOM was younger than her ? Still if it is an American chain of hotels I would report it to the highest level and get the fvcker fired. I have taken complaints up the chain in the Hilton, Sheraton, Marriott etc and the results have been good (especially when I have had proof of their bad behaviour).


You are acting extremely weak and dependent and she is partially sure that nothing will come of this and she will get you to rug sweep it. However this is the first time she got caught (and you have proof) so she is enlisting her parents help to make sure. Since you have proof she is apologising to her parents prior to asking for their help - else she might have said "he is acting crazy, please help me".


She needs to have NC (personal time) with any men (tomboy, shmomboy). She needs to move away from this image she has of herself as an independent person who solves her own problems and therefore does what she wants - not if she wants to be in a marriage.


You seem to be afraid of separation and divorce. This is the first thing you need to overcome. You have to be more than ready to lose her and this despicable behaviour of hers.


As others have already said, she needs to be bending over backwards, crying snot nosed when she begs you to stay etc - NOT you agonising and crying and begging !?!?!?



Make a list of the things you need to do: get your evidence together, expose to all (including her job if she won't leave and since she earned more than you, you will not have to pay alimony), expose to the OMW - track the fvcker down and blow his wife up - might not matter if he is French or even North African (Algerian etc - many in France). Lawyer up and understand how to protect your self financially as well with respect to custody. Separate finances and do the 180 to help you heal (only communicate about the kid). Insist that she take a poly and set this up. Failure on any of these (changing her job, NC with other men, taking the poly, bending over backwards in actions to heal the marriage etc) should result in divorce with no looking backwards.

Wake up, stop your snivelling and get moving !


----------



## Wolfman1968

blueinbr said:


> Wow. Great email. I wish you had told us this earlier. And the other details rather than trickling the info in.
> 
> She seems remorseful. She made a mistake. You probably should help her forgive herself.


NO!

She should help *HIM* forgive *HER!* That's where it starts.

She ISN'T remorseful if she wants forgiveness on HER TERMS, which is what she is doing.

She needs to show HONESTY, TRANSPARENCY and a CHANGE IN BEHAVIOR from her flirty ways. THEN maybe she would be remorseful.

The email quoted to me looks like someone who was caught doing something wrong, admits it, but still wants to worm out of the consequences. Not remorse.


----------



## sancheharri

apologies if i seem to be doing "trickle truths", memories come and go, i'm having a hard time recalling all events in it's exact order. i just read that email a few hours ago. i think it was sent weeks ago.

yeah, i have no idea if she told her parents the complete truth of her transgressions. i'm not counting much on her parents, i'm sure they will sympathize with their daughter. her mother also cheated on his father a long time ago. or i think they cheated on each other.

i agree on that point - she did not voluntarily confess, i saw the evidence years ago and only admitted about six months ago when i didn't stop badgering her about the evidence i found. 

accepting all responsiblity for the affair in her email, and yet shouts and blames me for her affair??? i'm beginning to think she has a bipolar or some mental disorder?...

yes, i asked and admonished her if she isn't bothered by the fact that all the male staff are laughing at her whenever she went there because for sure that guy has bragged to everyone that he was banging a guest for free...she curtly replied "...no i wasn't bothered by it, and i'm not bothered now...i didn't care what he and they thought about me then, and i don't care now. they don't matter to me!..." yeah, this woman is really something!...

the guy is 5 years older but looks much younger than his age (according to her)...oh, yes, she considers that the guy "sacrificed so much to be with her" by risking his job sneaking to her room whenever he banged her. and that's one of the reasons she gave why she thinks the guy is true with his intentions for her and that he is really into her. (geez, really sorry for the trickles)

yes, yes, i want her to suffer the consequences. i also think she will not learn from all of this if she won't suffer the full consequence of her choices.


----------



## Andy1001

sancheharri said:


> apologies if i seem to be doing "trickle truths", memories come and go, i'm having a hard time recalling all events in it's exact order. i just read that email a few hours ago. i think it was sent weeks ago.
> 
> yeah, i have no idea if she told her parents the complete truth of her transgressions. i'm not counting much on her parents, i'm sure they will sympathize with their daughter. her mother also cheated on his father a long time ago. or i think they cheated on each other.
> 
> i agree on that point - she did not voluntarily confess, i saw the evidence years ago and only admitted about six months ago when i didn't stop badgering her about the evidence i found.
> 
> accepting all responsiblity for the affair in her email, and yet shouts and blames me for her affair??? i'm beginning to think she has a bipolar or some mental disorder?...
> 
> yes, i asked and admonished her if she isn't bothered by the fact that all the male staff are laughing at her whenever she went there because for sure that guy has bragged to everyone that he was banging a guest for free...she curtly replied "...no i wasn't bothered by it, and i'm not bothered now...i didn't care what he and they thought about me then, and i don't care now. they don't matter to me!..." yeah, this woman is really something!...
> 
> the guy is 5 years older but looks much younger than his age (according to her)...oh, yes, she considers that the guy "sacrificed so much to be with her" by risking his job sneaking to her room whenever he banged her. and that's one of the reasons she gave why she thinks the guy is true with his intentions for her and that he is really into her. (geez, really sorry for the trickles)
> 
> yes, yes, i want her to suffer the consequences. i also think she will not learn from all of this if she won't suffer the full consequence of her choices.


In my former profession I traveled for months at a time,living in hotels and I met so many women like your wife.She is a serial cheat and I doubt if she can actually remember how many guys she has banged over the years.She can blame you,blame loneliness,blame job stress or whatever but please believe me this is not her first time on the rodeo.The biggest Tell is her refusal to give up her job and traveling.You are now fighting again and in her mind that is enough reason for her to seek out another man.
These women can separate home life from hotel life and they may never intend to divorce their husbands but hey,**** happens.
If she continues traveling then she will continue cheating it's that simple.


----------



## smi11ie

_"1) she says she didn't have any feelings with the guy, they treated each other as buddies during the affair. that's why she was able to let it go easily. she even told the guy it was just sex. - BUT she said she cuddled to him after having sex for the first time, and she felt "they bonded" when they had sex."

"6) she says she didn't care what the guy felt for her or what he thought of her.- BUT she said she had sex for validation and to feel attractive and sexy."

"BUT she admitted that the guy didn't stay overnight or spent much time with her, didn't invite her for a decent date, didn't call or sent messages. just the usual "buddy" relationship."_

It does not look like an emotional affair to me. As soon as the AP started talking about his marraige she dumped him. I think she was in it just for the sex, however, the sex was dissappointing so she got fed up.

I would guess she has done this before. It was all too easy for her to not get emotionally invested. If it were her first affair I would have thought she would have more feelings for him.

I was silly to make assumptions about your sexlife. If she is a serial cheater (which is my suspicion) then she seems quite happy keeping you on the side. If you want to reconcile this is definitely in your favour. How do you feel about an open relationship? It would be great if you could have a frank, rip the band aid off, conversation with her.


----------



## Emerging Buddhist

sancheharri said:


> \yeah, when she shouted that to me, it really hurt. she got me on that one i almost punched her mouth! i just walked-out to cool-off because it's embarassing to our two grown-up sons - their parents spilling their guts for everybody to hear.


For everybody's sake you had better dial-down these reactions way before this...


----------



## eric1

stixx said:


> This is a ridiculous reason to DNA his child.
> 
> So what if he's at "greater risk" for getting a particular disease. Is he supposed to do things differently if there's a 1/100 chance of getting Huntingtons disease or Tay Sach's disease because it's a genetic disease with a small but not insignificant inheritance rate?


My cousin has Huntington's and I consider you crapping all over the disease a real insult.




stixx said:


> What about all the adopted kids where they know nothing about the parents?


Adoptions come with medical records in most cases


----------



## smi11ie

I agree with Emerging Buddhist. Take a moment to yourself and decide what you need. State your demands firmly with as much warmth as you can muster. Do not have a conversation about it. State your requirements then let her chew on it. Patience is a virtue....start jogging or something.


----------



## LosingHim

OP - which cheater do you think you have a better chance of believing/reconciling with/ moving forward with in any way?

Cheater One:

Gives BS all passwords to all social media, phone, email
Gives BS full access to cell phone and any other electronic devices including work phones, ipads, laptops., etc.
Removes a large number of opposite sex friends on all social media, only keeping members of the opposite sex who are family, friends of the marriage, etc. 
Cuts contact with “friends” who knew of the affair
Doesn’t do Boys Night Out/Girls Night Out anymore
Writes No Contact letter to AP without being asked to
Informs you when they accidentally run into AP in public and/or sends you screen shots after AP has contacted them without you having to ask for them
Tells you they will give you a divorce if it is what you need, even though it is killing them to lose you, because they understand that they caused this and there’s nothing they can do about it
Cries often about the pain they caused, asks you often how they can fix it, apologizes often
Reads and researches how to help you heal
Seeks counseling to try to determine why they did what they did
Allows you or encourages you to GPS their car or put an app such as Find my iPhone on their phone so that you can check their whereabouts if you feel like it
They go where they say they are going to go and nowhere else, they come home when they say they will be home, they keep themselves accessible on their phones so that you can reach them at any time
They may become depressed or suicidal when the realization of how much what they did hurt you hits them
They answer any and all questions openly, honestly and without hesitation, no matter how hard the questions are to answer
They accept full responsibility for the affair (AKA owning their sh*t) and they do not blame the BS in ANY way – other marriage problems are separate from infidelity
They understand and accept that since they were unfaithful, reconciliation is a GIFT and the marriage can still end at any time, even years later because of the infidelity 
Should you choose to separate/divorce – they go into it knowing that this is not a standard separation/divorce and don’t “go for the jugular”, possibly try to waive child support or alimony if possible
If affair was in the work place or work place related, either offers to quit job or does not bristle at being asked to quit job


Cheater Two:

Keeps a passcode on their phone, refuses to give passwords or pin codes to phone or social media
No access to other electronics, work phones, ipads, etc
Gets angry when monitored
Defensive when asked questions about the affair
Lies and trickle truth
Refuses to send No Contact
Still enjoys girls night or guys night, social life does not change and if asked about it asserts that they are a “grown up” who can spend their time as they choose
Continues to engage inappropriately on social media, ‘liking’ pictures of the opposite sex that are questionable, keeping connections with single people of the opposite sex, etc.
Refuses to discuss the affair
Never apologizes and if they do it seems empty
Blames you for the affair
Ignores the affair and acts like everything is normal
Gets angry when you bring up the affair, telling you to “get over it” or that “the past is the past” and you need to “move on”


----------



## stixx

eric1 said:


> My cousin has Huntington's and I consider you crapping all over the disease a real insult.


My grandmother had Huntingtons which is why I used it as an example.

As you probably also know Huntingtons is autosomal dominent so once it skips a generation it's gone, and it's not preventable so knowing you might be at risk is of no benefit, it's not like you're going to live life any differently and you never know if the condition will be only mild tremors or full blown neurological impairment.


----------



## Hope1964

sancheharri said:


> just last night we had another argument to which she shouted "...if it wasn't for you i wouldn't have had an affair!...if you hadn't neglected your wife, i wouldn't have fallen into someone elses arms!...you are the biggest reason for my affair!..."
> 
> what is this guys? ---


This is complete and utter bull**** is what this is. You need to kick her sorry ass out of the house NOW. She isn't the LEAST BIT remorseful!!!


----------



## Hope1964

stixx said:


> As far as the Op goes- it's not your "fault" she had an affair but yes you are partially responsible for the problems in the marriage that led up to it, if you ignored the signs that she was being neglected and her needs weren't being met.


DO NOT listen to this. This is also bull****. You are NOT to blame for her cheating. And right now isn't the time to worry about your marriage either. Right now you need to figure out if she's worth R, and right now she isn't.

Once the dust settles and you're ready to do some work, take a look at your contributions to the state of the marriage and work on that - but DO NOT do it in the context of it leading to her cheating. Because SHE CHOSE to cheat. That is 100% ON HER. Not on you. You were in the exact same marriage and you didn't screw around.


----------



## Hope1964

honcho said:


> If you wanna wait and ride the pain train till your brain "rewires" itself go ahead or you can start taking control of your life and dealing with the pain and ending it much quicker.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## BobSimmons

sancheharri said:


> and there's this article i've read somewhere that suggests all these pain and mental torture is caused by our brain being "re-wired". re-wired in the sense that our brain have been wired and used to the "old truth" that our spouses are good people. then all of a sudden here comes a "new reality" that our spouses are different from what our brain used to know. our brain is now "re-booting or re-wiring" it's neurons to this new reality. and that is what's causing the pain. the author suggested to just ride it out, accept and absorb the pain as long as you can, and wait for your brain to adjust to this "new reality".


Huh?

Wherever that "somewhere" was where you read that article, never go there again.


----------



## theDrifter

I think I understand what you are really trying to find out with all of the questions you want answers to. You are trying to get her to tell you why she did this. All of us BH's want an answer to that question and it can torture us for years. It did for me and, sometimes, still does. But I have finally figured out a few things about this and I'll share them with you. 

Is there any possible answer she could give you to the "why" question that would make you feel better about it? Like she could give you a reason(s) and you would think "yeah - I get it now!" and everything would be ok? Of course not yet we keep wondering what the answer really is. I think it's because we do not want to accept the real reason. The one staring us right in the face. She screwed this other guy for months because she loved the attention from him, the naughtiness of forbidden fruit was so delicious, and the sex was wonderful! It was fun and it felt good and she wanted it. I just described why your wife cheated - does it make you feel better? Can you accept this and keep living with her? Like it was just a "mistake"? Like you are somehow and in some way to blame for it? 

You need to look at this realistically and, as others have suggested, search your feelings to decide just what you are willing to accept from a wife. This horror story is never going to go away and if you stay with her you don't have much chance to heal. 

I've never read a post from a BH who divorced his WW that says he regrets it. Never.


----------



## Malaise

sancheharri said:


> guys, pardon me if my narrative seems to be short. i'm very tired. just last night we had another argument to which she shouted "...if it wasn't for you i wouldn't have had an affair!...if you hadn't neglected your wife, i wouldn't have fallen into someone elses arms!...you are the biggest reason for my affair!..."
> 
> what is this guys? --- did i really play a part as to the cause of her affair? did i misread her and our marriage all those years?


As Hope said, this is crap. 

But the fact that you even ask yourself the question should show you how manipulative she is. When ( if ) she ever gets to the point she accepts all responsibility , then she's remorseful. 

As of now, not so much. Unrepentant, defiant, and just daring you to do something of substance.


----------



## sancheharri

smi11ie said:


> _"1) she says she didn't have any feelings with the guy, they treated each other as buddies during the affair. that's why she was able to let it go easily. she even told the guy it was just sex. - BUT she said she cuddled to him after having sex for the first time, and she felt "they bonded" when they had sex."
> 
> "6) she says she didn't care what the guy felt for her or what he thought of her.- BUT she said she had sex for validation and to feel attractive and sexy."
> 
> "BUT she admitted that the guy didn't stay overnight or spent much time with her, didn't invite her for a decent date, didn't call or sent messages. just the usual "buddy" relationship."_
> 
> It does not look like an emotional affair to me. As soon as the AP started talking about his marraige she dumped him. I think she was in it just for the sex, however, the sex was dissappointing so she got fed up.
> 
> I would guess she has done this before. It was all too easy for her to not get emotionally invested. If it were her first affair I would have thought she would have more feelings for him.
> 
> I was silly to make assumptions about your sexlife. If she is a serial cheater (which is my suspicion) then she seems quite happy keeping you on the side. If you want to reconcile this is definitely in your favour. How do you feel about an open relationship? It would be great if you could have a frank, rip the band aid off, conversation with her.


i just got back from a short break with some friends, and it was one of the best i had in recent years. i think i'll do this more often, at least, just to keep my sanity.

you gave me a different perspective on this. i've also read so much about men and women having generally different approach with regards to sex. she keeps on insisting on the non-existent romantic feelings for the guy. too casual and too easy for her if this was really her "first affair".


----------



## sancheharri

LosingHim said:


> OP - which cheater do you think you have a better chance of believing/reconciling with/ moving forward with in any way?
> 
> Cheater One:
> 
> Gives BS all passwords to all social media, phone, email
> Gives BS full access to cell phone and any other electronic devices including work phones, ipads, laptops., etc.
> Removes a large number of opposite sex friends on all social media, only keeping members of the opposite sex who are family, friends of the marriage, etc.
> Cuts contact with “friends” who knew of the affair
> Doesn’t do Boys Night Out/Girls Night Out anymore
> Writes No Contact letter to AP without being asked to
> Informs you when they accidentally run into AP in public and/or sends you screen shots after AP has contacted them without you having to ask for them
> Tells you they will give you a divorce if it is what you need, even though it is killing them to lose you, because they understand that they caused this and there’s nothing they can do about it
> Cries often about the pain they caused, asks you often how they can fix it, apologizes often
> Reads and researches how to help you heal
> Seeks counseling to try to determine why they did what they did
> Allows you or encourages you to GPS their car or put an app such as Find my iPhone on their phone so that you can check their whereabouts if you feel like it
> They go where they say they are going to go and nowhere else, they come home when they say they will be home, they keep themselves accessible on their phones so that you can reach them at any time
> They may become depressed or suicidal when the realization of how much what they did hurt you hits them
> They answer any and all questions openly, honestly and without hesitation, no matter how hard the questions are to answer
> They accept full responsibility for the affair (AKA owning their sh*t) and they do not blame the BS in ANY way – other marriage problems are separate from infidelity
> They understand and accept that since they were unfaithful, reconciliation is a GIFT and the marriage can still end at any time, even years later because of the infidelity
> Should you choose to separate/divorce – they go into it knowing that this is not a standard separation/divorce and don’t “go for the jugular”, possibly try to waive child support or alimony if possible
> If affair was in the work place or work place related, either offers to quit job or does not bristle at being asked to quit job
> 
> 
> Cheater Two:
> 
> Keeps a passcode on their phone, refuses to give passwords or pin codes to phone or social media
> No access to other electronics, work phones, ipads, etc
> Gets angry when monitored
> Defensive when asked questions about the affair
> Lies and trickle truth
> Refuses to send No Contact
> Still enjoys girls night or guys night, social life does not change and if asked about it asserts that they are a “grown up” who can spend their time as they choose
> Continues to engage inappropriately on social media, ‘liking’ pictures of the opposite sex that are questionable, keeping connections with single people of the opposite sex, etc.
> Refuses to discuss the affair
> Never apologizes and if they do it seems empty
> Blames you for the affair
> Ignores the affair and acts like everything is normal
> Gets angry when you bring up the affair, telling you to “get over it” or that “the past is the past” and you need to “move on”


LosingHim, my cheating wife is displaying a mix-up of behaviours from your lists ---

Cheater one:

Gives BS all passwords to all social media, phone, email
Gives BS full access to cell phone and any other electronic devices including work phones, ipads, laptops., etc.
Informs you when they accidentally run into AP in public and/or sends you screen shots after AP has contacted them without you having to ask for them
They go where they say they are going to go and nowhere else, they come home when they say they will be home, they keep themselves accessible on their phones so that you can reach them at any time

Cheater Two:

Defensive when asked questions about the affair
Lies and trickle truth
Refuses to send No Contact
Continues to engage inappropriately on social media, ‘liking’ pictures of the opposite sex that are questionable, keeping connections with single people of the opposite sex, etc.
Refuses to discuss the affair
Blames you for the affair
Ignores the affair and acts like everything is normal
Gets angry when you bring up the affair, telling you to “get over it” or that “the past is the past” and you need to “move on


----------



## sancheharri

theDrifter said:


> I think I understand what you are really trying to find out with all of the questions you want answers to. You are trying to get her to tell you why she did this. All of us BH's want an answer to that question and it can torture us for years. It did for me and, sometimes, still does. But I have finally figured out a few things about this and I'll share them with you.
> 
> Is there any possible answer she could give you to the "why" question that would make you feel better about it? Like she could give you a reason(s) and you would think "yeah - I get it now!" and everything would be ok? Of course not yet we keep wondering what the answer really is. I think it's because we do not want to accept the real reason. The one staring us right in the face. She screwed this other guy for months because she loved the attention from him, the naughtiness of forbidden fruit was so delicious, and the sex was wonderful! It was fun and it felt good and she wanted it. I just described why your wife cheated - does it make you feel better? Can you accept this and keep living with her? Like it was just a "mistake"? Like you are somehow and in some way to blame for it?
> 
> You need to look at this realistically and, as others have suggested, search your feelings to decide just what you are willing to accept from a wife. This horror story is never going to go away and if you stay with her you don't have much chance to heal.
> 
> I've never read a post from a BH who divorced his WW that says he regrets it. Never.


yes, somehow you're right - i'm still in disbelief that i'm looking for "alternative why's". something i can still "hang-on" to. i am split between fixing or just letting go.


----------



## sancheharri

Malaise said:


> As Hope said, this is crap.
> 
> But the fact that you even ask yourself the question should show you how manipulative she is. When ( if ) she ever gets to the point she accepts all responsibility , then she's remorseful.
> 
> As of now, not so much. Unrepentant, defiant, and just daring you to do something of substance.


yes, i already said to her repeatedly that we are 50/50 with what happened to our marriage but the affair was 100% hers - and she won't accept it. she always insist that she can not take me away from the "equation" - that "i played a big part as to why she had an affair". she's really good at manipulating that she got me thinking this way at some point, but i'm now firm on my stand that i'm not part of her affair. it was her choice, it was her decision, and i wasn't there beside her when she f*cked that son-of-a-b*tch.


----------



## thenub

It looks like she may be driving you into the arms of another. Don't worry, she would be half to blame. After all, what's good for the goose is worth a gander. Just sayin'.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Steve1000

sancheharri said:


> LosingHim, my cheating wife is displaying a mix-up of behaviours from your lists ---
> 
> Cheater one:
> 
> Gives BS all passwords to all social media, phone, email
> Gives BS full access to cell phone and any other electronic devices including work phones, ipads, laptops., etc.
> Informs you when they accidentally run into AP in public and/or sends you screen shots after AP has contacted them without you having to ask for them
> They go where they say they are going to go and nowhere else, they come home when they say they will be home, they keep themselves accessible on their phones so that you can reach them at any time
> 
> Cheater Two:
> 
> Defensive when asked questions about the affair
> Lies and trickle truth
> Refuses to send No Contact
> Continues to engage inappropriately on social media, ‘liking’ pictures of the opposite sex that are questionable, keeping connections with single people of the opposite sex, etc.
> Refuses to discuss the affair
> Blames you for the affair
> Ignores the affair and acts like everything is normal
> Gets angry when you bring up the affair, telling you to “get over it” or that “the past is the past” and you need to “move on


She has done the things that are easy to quantify. Her cheater two traits are those that are more subjective. At this point, it is up to her to figure out how much she wants to repair the marriage. After six months, the shock for you has worn off a bit and anger is setting in. The next step will be a very long period of resentment if you allow things to remain the same. 

Stop trying to get her to talk about things. You can't force someone to be completely remorseful. You can treat her respectfully, but prepare yourself to end the relationship. The only chance of seeing remorse is if she knows she is losing you. If it instead pushes her to her previous lover or another man, then you really aren't losing anything anyway.


----------



## LosingHim

I can give you a laundry list of “whys” that I did what I did. My husband has always chosen his friends over me, still does. Has NEVER once told me I’m beautiful, doesn’t help with housework, has ignored holidays, doesn’t talk about his feelings, ignores me, we argue a lot, he’s talked inappropriately with other women, had an EA, 99.9999% probability PA of his own, withholds affection…..I can go on and on. My husband is a “good guy”, but not a great husband. The things that I was lacking in my marriage are not the REASON for my ONS. Did those things that were lacking in my marriage make it easy to JUSTIFY that I was allowing the attention that OM was showering on me? YES! I was eating it up like soul food. I thought I deserved those things. I thought that I needed those things. That ego stroking felt SO GOOD. All those justifications surely made me feel like what I was doing was fine in the moment. But that did not make it my husbands fault. Yes, I’d communicated to him a million times what I needed and he chose not to do anything about it. But if I was so unhappy, then I should have left. THAT was my choice. That was my right. It was not within my rights to cheat on him and crap on my entire marriage and vows. That was my CHOICE! Surely there are things that had happened that had possibly made me vulnerable to an affair. But actually HAVING on is a CHOICE. No one else can “push” you into having an affair. You still have free will. Even in the most horrendous situations there is more than one choice. I chose badly. Your wife chose badly. 

You CANNOT fix this marriage until she owns her sh*t. And she ain’t close.


----------



## smi11ie

She needs some help to understand what you are going through. She doesn't get it or doesn't care. Tell her to sort herself out through counceling or even suggest she read a book. Conversations don't matter too much, it's real action that you need to see. Think about the 180.


----------



## sancheharri

guys, the past few days have been relatively quiet...until today. 

i chanced upon her sitting and pondering on something. i tried to stay calm as i asked her if she wants to say anything. to which she replied -- "...i was also hurt by the experience...i was hurt with what happened...i became a bad person...you also have hurt me...i feel betrayed...it wasn't worth all the trouble we're having now, and it was all for shallow selfish reasons...i destroyed our marriage and family, i hurt the people that matter the most to me...all for shallow reasons...i wish i could turn back the hands of time to rectify my mistakes...please give me the chance to make-up and do what is necessary to save our marriage...i realized that you're the one i want to grow old with...". she started to cry and i just stood up and let her be.

i don't know how to take or interpret what she meant by those words. i felt nothing.

can you help me out and "decode" what she meant?

TIA...


----------



## sancheharri

and this is strange -- i feel nothing...i feel nothing for her. i don't care for her and about the future. 

is this normal? am i going through a phase that all betrayed spouses do?


----------



## Andy1001

sancheharri said:


> guys, the past few days have been relatively quiet...until today.
> 
> i chanced upon her sitting and pondering on something. i tried to stay calm as i asked her if she wants to say anything. to which she replied -- "...i was also hurt by the experience...i was hurt with what happened...i became a bad person...you also have hurt me...i feel betrayed...it wasn't worth all the trouble we're having now, and it was all for shallow selfish reasons...i destroyed our marriage and family, i hurt the people that matter the most to me...all for shallow reasons...i wish i could turn back the hands of time to rectify my mistakes...please give me the chance to make-up and do what is necessary to save our marriage...i realized that you're the one i want to grow old with...". she started to cry and i just stood up and let her be.
> 
> i don't know how to take or interpret what she meant by those words. i felt nothing.
> 
> can you help me out and "decode" what she meant?
> 
> TIA...


Judge her by her actions not her words.She is manipulating you again and is probably dumbfounded that you didn't comfort her.She may completely change tactics now and even suggest divorce herself,don't fall in her trap she is looking for a reaction,any reaction.Tell her what you want her to do and what you want to know and then Leave the room.


----------



## GusPolinski

sancheharri said:


> guys, the past few days have been relatively quiet...until today.
> 
> i chanced upon her sitting and pondering on something. i tried to stay calm as i asked her if she wants to say anything. to which she replied -- "...i was also hurt by the experience...i was hurt with what happened...i became a bad person...you also have hurt me...i feel betrayed...it wasn't worth all the trouble we're having now, and it was all for shallow selfish reasons...i destroyed our marriage and family, i hurt the people that matter the most to me...all for shallow reasons...i wish i could turn back the hands of time to rectify my mistakes...please give me the chance to make-up and do what is necessary to save our marriage...i realized that you're the one i want to grow old with...". she started to cry and i just stood up and let her be.
> 
> i don't know how to take or interpret what she meant by those words. i felt nothing.
> 
> can you help me out and "decode" what she meant?
> 
> TIA...


Deflection, reverse victimization, and a half-hearted expression of regret. Hell, it's _almost_ remorse.

But not quite.

DARVO "lite", IOW.

Most of the sentiments that she expressed in your initial post don't jive, BTW. At least not when taken together.


----------



## drifting on

Sancheharri

Still not remorseful is how I describe your wife. In fact I would hesitate after six months to even offer the gift of remorse. However there is something you can ask her, this should end the blame shifting to you. Ask her if marriage is fifty fifty, half your faults and half hers. Then ask, if you bought a house would you expect me to discuss this with you first? If I decided this on my own without consulting you how would you feel? So in other words wife, important decisions about our marriage should be discussed, correct? Then why did you not consult me when you decided to allow another mans penis to invade your vagina? Tell me specifically how I am responsible for you to spread your legs open, allow another mans penis to enter, when you said absolutely zero to me.

In fact wife, you blaming me has caused me to feel that I need an emotional and PHYSICAL relationship with someone else since you were not available to me. I will be looking for this relationship as you have hurt me beyond any shadow of a doubt over your selfish decision. If I hear one word of you blaming me for ****ing another man, I will divorce and expose to everyone. You did not consult me to **** another man, and I too was involved in the same marriage as you, but I did not run into the arms of another woman. 

After you have said this just walk away, do the 180. Your wife is very proud of her manipulating skills, and it's a good action on your part not to comfort her. 

What you are feeling is completely normal. It's difficult to feel for the one that betrayed you in the worst way.


----------



## ButtPunch

sancheharri said:


> and this is strange -- i feel nothing...i feel nothing for her. i don't care for her and about the future.
> 
> is this normal? am i going through a phase that all betrayed spouses do?


Very normal but i think you are bluffing


----------



## Malaise

sancheharri said:


> yes, i already said to her repeatedly that we are 50/50 with what happened to our marriage but the affair was 100% hers - and she won't accept it. she always insist that she can not take me away from the "equation" - that "i played a big part as to why she had an affair". she's really good at manipulating that she got me thinking this way at some point, but i'm now firm on my stand that i'm not part of her affair. it was her choice, it was her decision, and i wasn't there beside her when she f*cked that son-of-a-b*tch.





sancheharri said:


> guys, the past few days have been relatively quiet...until today.
> 
> i chanced upon her sitting and pondering on something. i tried to stay calm as i asked her if she wants to say anything. to which she replied -- "...i was also hurt by the experience...i was hurt with what happened...i became a bad person...*you also have hurt me*...i feel betrayed...it wasn't worth all the trouble we're having now, and it was all for shallow selfish reasons...i destroyed our marriage and family, i hurt the people that matter the most to me...all for shallow reasons...i wish i could turn back the hands of time to rectify my mistakes...please give me the chance to make-up and do what is necessary to save our marriage...i realized that you're the one i want to grow old with...". she started to cry and i just stood up and let her be.
> 
> i don't know how to take or interpret what she meant by those words. i felt nothing.
> 
> can you help me out and "decode" what she meant?
> 
> TIA...



Well, it is manipulation as @Andy1001 said. Straight up.

She got almost to the point of accepting full responsibility but added the part in bold. And she expected you to jump in to comfort her and perhaps to accept some of the blame.

She regrets getting caught, that's it. Realize that it will take time and effort by her ( if she's capable ) to get to the point where she owns it all. Perhaps filing for divorce will jolt her into doing the work necessary. Or not.

But that's up to you.


----------



## sancheharri

i admit, i almost fell for that "contrite speech". i felt nothing but it made me think a bit for a moment. but reading your reactions nudged me to wake-up.

i dunno if it was a good idea, but i asked her a bit over dinner yesterday. i was perplexed with what she said - "...i don't see him just using me for sex. if ever that's what he did, i didn't and i don't care. for me, it was just sex, i didn't love him nor felt anything romantic for him. in fact, i'm the one guilty of "using" him for my own purpose. it was for me, i did it for me...validation, excitement, fun, etc...i am not a **** and i don't sleep with my male friends, it's just this one occassion that i made a terrible choice...a cannot admit to something i didn't feel during those times..." 

am i dealing with a certified narcissist of the highest order? am i dealing with a woman who has no respect left for her body at all ? i mean it's bad she an affair, but i am aghast because i never imagined this coming from her...i just realized i never really knew this woman at all after being married all these years!


----------



## sancheharri

yes, that's what she's been insisting all along - that i am a big part of the equation why she slept with another man. she wants me to acknowledge my part why it came to this.


----------



## farsidejunky

sancheharri said:


> i admit, i almost fell for that "contrite speech". i felt nothing but it made me think a bit for a moment. but reading your reactions nudged me to wake-up.
> 
> i dunno if it was a good idea, but i asked her a bit over dinner yesterday. i was perplexed with what she said - "...i don't see him just using me for sex. if ever that's what he did, i didn't and i don't care. for me, it was just sex, i didn't love him nor felt anything romantic for him. in fact, i'm the one guilty of "using" him for my own purpose. it was for me, i did it for me...validation, excitement, fun, etc...i am not a **** and i don't sleep with my male friends, it's just this one occassion that i made a terrible choice...a cannot admit to something i didn't feel during those times..."
> 
> am i dealing with a certified narcissist of the highest order? am i dealing with a woman who has no respect left for her body at all ? i mean it's bad she an affair, but i am aghast because i never imagined this coming from her...i just realized i never really knew this woman at all after being married all these years!


Does the answer to those questions really matter?

The only question that matters is this: is this woman you see in front of you right now the one with which you would like to grow old?


----------



## eric1

sancheharri said:


> and this is strange -- i feel nothing...i feel nothing for her. i don't care for her and about the future.
> 
> is this normal? am i going through a phase that all betrayed spouses do?


Nope, totally normal. I mean in its most simple form she decided to unilaterally end the marriage. You're not really married to this person anymore and have detached. Perhaps she just doesn't have what you're looking for in a mate. For others it is different.

Can't say I'd blame you, but that's it in a nutshell.


----------



## naiveonedave

sancheharri said:


> yes, that's what she's been insisting all along - that i am a big part of the equation why she slept with another man. she wants me to acknowledge my part why it came to this.


I could not live for a second with someone who actually told that to me. Talk about verbal and mental abuse.


----------



## drifting on

sancheharri said:


> yes, that's what she's been insisting all along - that i am a big part of the equation why she slept with another man. she wants me to acknowledge my part why it came to this.




Sancheharri

Based on this alone you need to divorce. If I remember correctly you said she wanted her father to talk to you as her mother cheated, right?


----------



## drifting on

Sancheharri

Ok, I found the post that said she asked her dad to talk to you. In her conversation with her dad she admits this is no fault of yours, but then tells you that you are at fault, or at least partly to blame for her cheating. Do you see what she is doing here? Your wife knows she is the only person to blame, admits that to her dad, but uses pure manipulation when she tells you. Her dad would probably tell her she is the only one at fault, so she admits to him it was entirely her bad choice. I suggest speaking to him IF you decide you want to reconcile. But you will tell the truth. 

As for your wife, she is doing her best to rug sweep this entire act of infidelity. Think of it this way, if you did this and you called your mom, you would tell the truth. But with your spouse you might not be so truthful. Instead, the problem I see is your wife is not strong and independent at all, she is in fact weak and manipulative. Being manipulative is not independent, its dependency that you do as she wants. As for remorse, not even close, resentment, this I see a ton of. Resentment is the core of the problem that she has for you.


----------



## badmemory

sancheharri said:


> yes, that's what she's been insisting all along - that i am a big part of the equation why she slept with another man. *she wants me to acknowledge my part why it came to this*.


Suggested response:

In order to do that, I'd have to believe that I'm some how partly to blame for your cheating. I don't and I never will. 

I can be blamed for my part of our marital problems, but you own the choice to cheat - 100%. You broke your vows, not me.


----------



## Jasel

Honestly, in your situation I think the best thing you can do is slap your wife with divorce papers. Don't give her a head's up, don't tell her you're talking to lawyers, simply have the papers drawn up and present them to her or have her served.

Your wife isn't even remotely close to being a candidate for reconciliation. I cant believe more people haven't told you to file yet. She won't quit her job, she blame shifts, she gaslights, refuses polygraph, still won't tell you the whole truth, I could go on. Not to mention I agree with others I doubt this is the first guy she's been banging behind your back. I'm sure it's just the one fling you happened to catch.

The quote in my signature: "The one who is most willing to walk away from the relationship, is the one who controls the relationship." also applied in the reverse. The one who is least willing to walk away from the relationship, is the one controlled in the relationship. 

If your wife has very little reason to believe you are going anywhere after what she did (and I don't care what she said in an email, actions not words), and it sounds like she has very good reason, she has little reason to change and little reason to take you or what you're going through seriously.

You've given her 6 months and your wife doesn't sound like she's interested in changing or even feels the need to.

Also I haven't heard you mention it in awhile but you're going to have to let go of getting the full truth. Chances are you won't, and even if you did it wouldn't make you feel any better. The only thing your obsession with the truth is doing is distracting you from taking action. You probably don't have anything close to the full story of what she's done behind your back during your relationship, certainly not enough to make a decision to stay but more than enough to leave.

You should also ask yourself what would the pros and cons be (for you specifically, no one else) in terms of leaving the marriage. Because I've never heard of a man divorcing his cheating wife, regardless of what else is going on in his life, and regretting the decision. Not saying it doesn't happen, I just haven't seen it.

At this point I think the ONLY thing you can do is a hard 180 and file for divorce so your wife finally understands the concept of consequences for her actions and how serious you are. That MIGHT get her to finally put forth real effort backed by action to repair the damage she's done. 

Then again it might not, but at least you'll be on your way to doing what you really need to do. And a divorce isn't filed and then granted tomorrow, you can always stop the process if things start to change.

But yea with the state you describe your marriage, you should really be planning an exit strategy.


----------



## harrybrown

Give her the D papers.

Tell her that you do not believe her that this is her only A.


She is still protecting the OM and not you, because she will not tell the OM's wife.

She has not written the timeline of her A. 
So tell her she has to prove that she is still not in the A? that she has gone NC?
She can't.

She has no remorse . How would she feel if you had an A? okay with her?

Give her the D papers.  go see your attorney today. she keeps slipping you poison, because she will not be truthful.

She is still having affairs now.

She can pay for you to go to affair recovery.com. but she has no remorse, and no respect for you.


so let her leave the family. she can pay child support and alimony. She is the one having affairs.


----------



## sancheharri

drifting on said:


> Sancheharri
> 
> Ok, I found the post that said she asked her dad to talk to you. In her conversation with her dad she admits this is no fault of yours, but then tells you that you are at fault, or at least partly to blame for her cheating. Do you see what she is doing here? Your wife knows she is the only person to blame, admits that to her dad, but uses pure manipulation when she tells you. Her dad would probably tell her she is the only one at fault, so she admits to him it was entirely her bad choice. I suggest speaking to him IF you decide you want to reconcile. But you will tell the truth.
> 
> As for your wife, she is doing her best to rug sweep this entire act of infidelity. Think of it this way, if you did this and you called your mom, you would tell the truth. But with your spouse you might not be so truthful. Instead, the problem I see is your wife is not strong and independent at all, she is in fact weak and manipulative. Being manipulative is not independent, its dependency that you do as she wants. As for remorse, not even close, resentment, this I see a ton of. Resentment is the core of the problem that she has for you.


i have no intention talking to her dad, yet. the shame and embarassment of what she has done is overwhelming. i avoided every family events because of this. although she keeps on asking me to join their family gatherings. perhaps it's my way of sending them a message that the marriage is not on recovery mode.

yes, resentment - i felt and saw this from her during our numerous arguments and shouting matches. her eyes were full of rage and she seem to be out of her mind. she's totally convinced that i have a big part as to why she became "that horrible person". i think she is so mad or angry at herself for making the wrong choice of destroying herself as a person. in her mind, i am the one who pushed her to seek out other men that ended in failure, thus, destroying herself in the process. she never fails to hammer on this idea everytime we have arguments about the affair.

i'm beginning to think she is still in denial that she let a man she really didn't know to use her just like that. she can't accept that she - a decent and smart woman - is capable of such self-degradation. 

yeah, unless she finally accepts full responsibility and (self-forgiveness?), she will never truly change her ways. well, i dunno, i guess i'm just rambling here. i feel like i'm becoming a psycho-analyst of some sort....


----------



## sancheharri

eric1 said:


> Nope, totally normal. I mean in its most simple form she decided to unilaterally end the marriage. You're not really married to this person anymore and have detached. Perhaps she just doesn't have what you're looking for in a mate. For others it is different.
> 
> Can't say I'd blame you, but that's it in a nutshell.


yes, i'm starting to feel this way - the woman i married and have been with for so many years is gone...the marriage is gone. there's this eerie feeling that this woman is a complete stranger...i don't know this woman.


----------



## farsidejunky

You are seeing this properly. Until she gets past this, she will never be a candidate for reconciliation.


----------



## drifting on

farsidejunky said:


> You are seeing this properly. Until she gets past this, she will never be a candidate for reconciliation.




In my opinion, she won't ever get past it. In her mind she will always blame sancheharri, even her own family will eventually come to realize she cheated.


----------



## StillSearching

Find out the OMs wife's name. It's easy now a days. Send a message to him by contacting her and letting her know whats up.
File for D now.


----------



## Be smart

Sorry you are here my friend.

You need to know that this is not your fault. Your wife did this,she cheated on you and your Family.

Also this is not a mistake. Cheating on your Wife or Husband is not a mistake.It is a choice. She even arranged some trips so she could be alone with this man.
She lied to you about it for years,she kept hidden pictures of them,mails and what else so she can "revisit" her happy times. She wanted to live with this man but in some way he let her down. He dumped her so she turned to her Plan B-you,sorry.

She used to brag to her friends about her Affair because she have something on the side and because it is "IN" and her good friends are doing it too. What ever you decide those friends have to go. 

Your wife cut you from sex,made some new hairstyles for her loverboy and get dumped. Now she is 47 years old so she wants to grow old with you. Tell her it does not work that way.

PS. DNA your 4 year old kid. 

Stay strong.


----------



## sancheharri

Be smart said:


> Sorry you are here my friend.
> 
> You need to know that this is not your fault. Your wife did this,she cheated on you and your Family.
> 
> Also this is not a mistake. Cheating on your Wife or Husband is not a mistake.It is a choice. She even arranged some trips so she could be alone with this man.
> She lied to you about it for years,she kept hidden pictures of them,mails and what else so she can "revisit" her happy times. She wanted to live with this man but in some way he let her down. He dumped her so she turned to her Plan B-you,sorry.
> 
> She used to brag to her friends about her Affair because she have something on the side and because it is "IN" and her good friends are doing it too. What ever you decide those friends have to go.
> 
> Your wife cut you from sex,made some new hairstyles for her loverboy and get dumped. Now she is 47 years old so she wants to grow old with you. Tell her it does not work that way.
> 
> PS. DNA your 4 year old kid.
> 
> Stay strong.


yes, this is more or less the idea or picture that is beginning to sink in my mind. 

wow, thanks a lot to all of you. your inputs really helped me find many answers.


----------



## sancheharri

guys, what is "BONDING" or "CONNECTION" for you? i think my cheating wife just "slipped" a while ago when i asked her again what triggered and what happened in the first sexual encounter during her affair. she "slipped" by telling me that - "...we bonded when we had sex...we connected...we cuddled a bit after we had sex for the first time..." 

never mind that she allegedly told him a day after that "it was just sex", that slip-up tells me clearly that she indeed "fell for that guy, or she got emotionally attached". this is opposite to her claims that "the affair or the guy meant nothing to her". 

LosingHIM was right - a woman won't be coming back for more sex if she felt dirty or didn't enjoy the act. couples do not cuddle or embrace after sex if there's nothing more in it.

forgive me if i seem to be so naive but i just want to confirm from you if i am drawing the right conclusions in light of her lies and betrayal.


----------



## Malaise

sancheharri said:


> guys, what is "BONDING" or "CONNECTION" for you? i think my cheating wife just "slipped" a while ago when i asked her again what triggered and what happened in the first sexual encounter during her affair. she "slipped" by telling me that - "...we bonded when we had sex...we connected...we cuddled a bit after we had sex for the first time..."
> 
> *never mind that she allegedly told him a day after that "it was just sex", that slip-up tells me clearly that she indeed "fell for that guy, or she got emotionally attached". this is opposite to her claims that "the affair or the guy meant nothing to her".
> 
> *LosingHIM was right - a woman won't be coming back for more sex if she felt dirty or didn't enjoy the act. couples do not cuddle or embrace after sex if there's nothing more in it.
> 
> forgive me if i seem to be so naive but i just want to confirm from you if i am drawing the right conclusions in light of her lies and betrayal.


Well, she IS a liar.

As for going back for more : she liked it, it was hot, illicit , and dirty.


----------



## farsidejunky

sancheharri said:


> guys, what is "BONDING" or "CONNECTION" for you? i think my cheating wife just "slipped" a while ago when i asked her again what triggered and what happened in the first sexual encounter during her affair. she "slipped" by telling me that - "...we bonded when we had sex...we connected...we cuddled a bit after we had sex for the first time..."
> 
> never mind that she allegedly told him a day after that "it was just sex", that slip-up tells me clearly that she indeed "fell for that guy, or she got emotionally attached". this is opposite to her claims that "the affair or the guy meant nothing to her".
> 
> LosingHIM was right - a woman won't be coming back for more sex if she felt dirty or didn't enjoy the act. couples do not cuddle or embrace after sex if there's nothing more in it.
> 
> forgive me if i seem to be so naive but i just want to confirm from you if i am drawing the right conclusions in light of her lies and betrayal.


You (and @LosingHim) are 100% correct.


----------



## TAMAT

Sancherharri,

What I feel here from what you have written is that...

Your WW has had many of these kinds of encounters in the past when she was on the road, you just caught this one because the odds caught up to her. I also feel that you WW likes the attention of men in general and is able to quickly bond with them, her boundaries are poor.

Your WW is now regretting that she got caught as she will have more of a tough time keeping her secret second life hidden. She had what is in her mind the perfect set up a husband who stayed home and loved her, while she traveled and had her excitement outside which she was able to hide by distance.

DNA the child, get her to write out a timeline for the affair, get her a polygraph, get a post-nuptial.

She needs to tell you everything you need to know.

Pay the OM a visit in person, picket his hotel, spray paint his deeds to be read by all, threaten a lawsuit against the hotel.

Tamat


----------



## Chaparral

Never ever argue with a cheater. They have twisted themselves into a Gordian knot of lies and deception in order to shift blame and relieve their conscience State your opinion and walk away. The only answers you give are things like "I'm sorry you feel that way"' "Don't go away mad" " I don't want to talk about it ." Etc. 
You will get more sense out of a rock. Bottom line, she dumped you and then got dumped. Can you reconcile? If you see her doing everything you've asked and more you haven't thought of. Why would you though? She dumped you because she thought she found someone better and she doesn't love you. There are a lot of great women out there, you know this one has no problem sticking a knife in your back and telling everyone you fell on it.


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## harrybrown

If she will not give you the truth and a timeline, she is still cheating on her trips.

File for D.

She is not remorseful at all.

Have her pay you alimony and child support. and sign the post nup.

Continue to expose and when is your part of the open marriage starting?

'she started without you many years ago.

time to end the party. she does not care about hurting you at all.


----------



## x598

op 

this is not meant to hurt but instead the blunt truth that you haven't been able to accept.

your wife had her affair because it was fun, exciting and the opportunity was there. SIMPLE AS THAT.

all her talk of "this is your fault" aka blaming you serves two purposes......the first is to alleviate her guilt for what she did...the second is to shut you up and put you in your place.

here is the fatal flaw in her argument....since you were such a bad guy that drove her into bed with another man.....WHY NOW DOES SHE WANT TO KEEP YOUR RELATIONSHIP GOING????????

that one thought should make you realize anything and everything she is saying is total and complete BS.

god luck with a partner of this mindset. Divorce quickly and decisively and put her far behind you. oh and blow up her world with exposure. because she is going to paint you out as a monster for any who will listen.


----------



## Decorum

x598 said:


> op
> 
> that one thought should make you realize anything and everything she is saying is total and complete BS.


Like walking out of a cave into the full sun, you blink a little, but before long you realize, things are exactly what they seem.


----------



## goingsolo12

@sancheharri

I am so sorry you find yourself in this mess. From reading your posts I feel Your wife is in denial and her being in denial is causing her to manipulate you big time. She has an image of herself in her mind and she is manipulating you to project that image of herself in to your brain. Its a defense mechanism, she sees the sadness and indifference in your eyes for her and she is trying her best to change her image in your eyes, by blaming you for everything, even her own choices. I am sure she tried the same tactic through out your marriage.

Now Listen, think about yourself for once, think about what is out there. Your children will be okay. Please think about yourself first. What kind of example would you set for your sons? What advice would you give them if you saw them in this situation? If you are happy you would be a better father to your children.

You need to drop a bomb to get your wife to respect you,she still feels she is in power, she is still disrespecting you, she deserves the consequences. Time waits for none my friend, listen to the good people of TAM. Its time for hard consequences for her.

All the best.


----------



## sancheharri

x598 said:


> op
> 
> here is the fatal flaw in her argument....since you were such a bad guy that drove her into bed with another man.....WHY NOW DOES SHE WANT TO KEEP YOUR RELATIONSHIP GOING????????


out of the blue i asked her this particular question that you suggested and here's the reply i got - (not exactly word for word)

"...during that period i was very depressed and very sad, i thought i wasn't attractive, my job stressed me out, and i viewed our marriage as very bad, and that you didn't love me as much as i have loved you. i focused on the negative aspects of all that's happening in my life during that time. i got fed-up and decided to do things for myself, my happiness, the things that i deserved for my sacrifices for the familyand this marriage...it was the perfect storm for me...and that was my mistake. i realized that despite the bad things that had been happening, there are also many good things in our marriage. i should have counted our blessings instead of highlighting the negatives...i realized in my heart that YOU'RE STILL THE ONE I TRULY LOVE. i never really stopped loving you...it's been you all along...IT WAS NEVER MY INTENTION TO LEAVE YOU..."

i just stayed calm but i wanted to smash her face on the table. for me, this is another confirmation that she indeed already gave-up and abandoned our marriage TO FIND HER OWN HAPPINESS. she tried to find another guy to love and start a relationship with. unfortunately for her, she found a guy who just F*cked her-up instead. IF she got "fortunate" and found someone who took her seriously, it's more likely they would have been living together now! that's what she meant with "...i stopped the affair because nothing good is coming out of it..." !!

she realized " i was the one she truly loved all along" because she woke-up to the fact her prince charming was just taking advantage of the free sex she was offering - i was indeed the "fall-back guy"!...she thought that by going all the way and giving it all to him, this guy will also take her seriously and eventually abandon his own marriage for her!...this is the reason she went back again and again, and allowed him to use her despite the feeling of being "dirty and disgusting" !

geez, now the picture is getting clearer and clearer...i can now see the light at the end of this loooong dark tunnel...



Decorum said:


> Like walking out of a cave into the full sun, you blink a little, but before long you realize, things are exactly what they seem.


yeah, what my gut and doubts told me were actually the true answers i've been looking for...but i've got to hand it to her - she's a master manipulator.


----------



## sancheharri

goingsolo12 said:


> @sancheharri
> 
> I am so sorry you find yourself in this mess. From reading your posts I feel Your wife is in denial and her being in denial is causing her to manipulate you big time. She has an image of herself in her mind and she is manipulating you to project that image of herself in to your brain. Its a defense mechanism, she sees the sadness and indifference in your eyes for her and she is trying her best to change her image in your eyes, by blaming you for everything, even her own choices. I am sure she tried the same tactic through out your marriage.
> 
> Now Listen, think about yourself for once, think about what is out there. Your children will be okay. Please think about yourself first. What kind of example would you set for your sons? What advice would you give them if you saw them in this situation? If you are happy you would be a better father to your children.
> 
> You need to drop a bomb to get your wife to respect you,she still feels she is in power, she is still disrespecting you, she deserves the consequences. Time waits for none my friend, listen to the good people of TAM. Its time for hard consequences for her.
> 
> All the best.


goingsolo12, you hit it bull's-eye! 

she indeed has this habit of BLAMING EVERYTHING ELSE EXCEPT HERSELF in numerous instances throughout our marriage. 

and yes again, she told me in one our many fights and arguments that "...i'm not that kind of a woman you assume me to be...i refuse to accept that i am a sl*t...i do not engage in FWB relationships...i'm not an evil person..." - then what is she then if she's capable of such destructive mindset and behavior???

yes, my sons, i actually relagated the thought of them to the sidelines because of this obsession for answers...perhaps i'll deal with this separately.


----------



## Malaise

sancheharri said:


> goingsolo12, you hit it bull's-eye!
> 
> she indeed has this habit of BLAMING EVERYTHING ELSE EXCEPT HERSELF in numerous instances throughout our marriage.
> 
> and yes again, she told me in one our many fights and arguments that "...i'm not that kind of a woman you assume me to be...i refuse to accept that i am a sl*t...i do not engage in FWB relationships...i'm not an evil person..." - then what is she then if she's capable of such destructive mindset and behavior???
> 
> yes, my sons, i actually relagated the thought of them to the sidelines because of this obsession for answers...perhaps i'll deal with this separately.


Nope, not remorseful. That's something you can't help her with, it has to come from within her.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

sancheharri said:


> IF she got "fortunate" and found someone who took her seriously, it's more likely they would have been living together now! that's what she meant with "...i stopped the affair because nothing good is coming out of it..." !!
> 
> she realized " i was the one she truly loved all along" because she woke-up to the fact her prince charming was just taking advantage of the free sex she was offering - i was indeed the "fall-back guy"


Tell her that this is exactly how you feel and she has one hell of an uphill battle to prove to you otherwise. In fact, I can't even see how it's possible to prove something like that after everything that's transpired. 

The fact that she insists she's not a FWB slunt actually makes her case a bit worse. It only reinforces the fact that she was looking for a genuine relationship and just failed to find one this time around.


----------



## Malaise

Tatsuhiko said:


> Tell her that this is exactly how you feel and she has one hell of an uphill battle to prove to you otherwise. In fact, I can't even see how it's possible to prove something like that after everything that's transpired.
> 
> *The fact that she insists she's not a FWB slunt actually makes her case a bit worse. It only reinforces the fact that she was looking for a genuine relationship and just failed to find one this time around*.


Yeah.

She's either one or the other.


----------



## sancheharri

Tatsuhiko said:


> The fact that she insists she's not a FWB slunt actually makes her case a bit worse. It only reinforces the fact that she was looking for a genuine relationship and just failed to find one this time around.





Malaise said:


> Yeah.
> 
> She's either one or the other.


exactly! this is one of her claims that got me so confused early on. which is which? either she is very confused about herself, OR she is trying to protect or project an image of herself in her own mind because she is is huge DENIAL within herself. she doesn't want to accept what she has become or what she really is all along. she indeed discovered her true self...and it's nasty!

i once told her that it's better if she actually have fallen for that guy, at least, there's a "good reason" for her to have given-up everything rather than having sex for "no reason" at all - as what she has been insisting (it's just meaningless sex).


----------



## sokillme

sancheharri said:


> out of the blue i asked her this particular question that you suggested and here's the reply i got - (not exactly word for word)
> 
> "...during that period i was very depressed and very sad, i thought i wasn't attractive, my job stressed me out, and i viewed our marriage as very bad, and that you didn't love me as much as i have loved you. i focused on the negative aspects of all that's happening in my life during that time. i got fed-up and decided to do things for myself, my happiness, the things that i deserved for my sacrifices for the familyand this marriage...it was the perfect storm for me...and that was my mistake. i realized that despite the bad things that had been happening, there are also many good things in our marriage. i should have counted our blessings instead of highlighting the negatives...i realized in my heart that YOU'RE STILL THE ONE I TRULY LOVE. i never really stopped loving you...it's been you all along...IT WAS NEVER MY INTENTION TO LEAVE YOU..."
> 
> i just stayed calm but i wanted to smash her face on the table. for me, this is another confirmation that she indeed already gave-up and abandoned our marriage TO FIND HER OWN HAPPINESS. she tried to find another guy to love and start a relationship with. unfortunately for her, she found a guy who just F*cked her-up instead. IF she got "fortunate" and found someone who took her seriously, it's more likely they would have been living together now! that's what she meant with "...i stopped the affair because nothing good is coming out of it..." !!
> 
> she realized " i was the one she truly loved all along" because she woke-up to the fact her prince charming was just taking advantage of the free sex she was offering - i was indeed the "fall-back guy"!...she thought that by going all the way and giving it all to him, this guy will also take her seriously and eventually abandon his own marriage for her!...this is the reason she went back again and again, and allowed him to use her despite the feeling of being "dirty and disgusting" !
> 
> geez, now the picture is getting clearer and clearer...i can now see the light at the end of this loooong dark tunnel...
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, what my gut and doubts told me were actually the true answers i've been looking for...but i've got to hand it to her - she's a master manipulator.


Your assessment of this is accurate. It's not remorse it's justification, she is making excuses, and worse she thinks those excuses and "I am sorry" is enough. You were in the same marriage you didn't cheat. DNA your kid even it is just to give her the shock. See a lawyer to confirm your rights. Let her know to put the fear of God in her. She needs to understand the ramifications of this.


----------



## Malaise

sancheharri said:


> exactly! this is one of her claims that got me so confused early on. which is which? either she is very confused about herself, OR she is trying to protect or project an image of herself in her own mind because she is is huge DENIAL within herself. she doesn't want to accept what she has become or what she really is all along. she indeed discovered her true self...and it's nasty!
> 
> i once told her that it's better if she actually have fallen for that guy, at least, there's a "good reason" for her to have given-up everything rather than having sex for "no reason" at all - *as what she has been insisting (it's just meaningless sex*).


If she persists in saying this tell her it wasn't meaningless to you, it meant you look at her a whole new way, and the marriage is suffering.

Ask her was she willing to throw away her marriage on something that meant nothing to her.


----------



## Decorum

sanchehrrai said:


> out of the blue i asked her this particular question that you suggested and here's the reply i got - (not exactly word for word)
> 
> "...during that period i was very depressed and very sad, i thought i wasn't attractive, my job stressed me out, and i viewed our marriage as very bad, and that you didn't love me as much as i have loved you. i focused on the negative aspects of all that's happening in my life during that time. i got fed-up and decided to do things for myself, my happiness, the things that i deserved for my sacrifices for the familyand this marriage...it was the perfect storm for me...and that was my mistake. i realized that despite the bad things that had been happening, there are also many good things in our marriage. i should have counted our blessings instead of highlighting the negatives...i realized in my heart that YOU'RE STILL THE ONE I TRULY LOVE. i never really stopped loving you...it's been you all along...IT WAS NEVER MY INTENTION TO LEAVE YOU..."
> 
> i just stayed calm but i wanted to smash her face on the table. for me, this is another confirmation that she indeed already gave-up and abandoned our marriage TO FIND HER OWN HAPPINESS. she tried to find another guy to love and start a relationship with. unfortunately for her, she found a guy who just F*cked her-up instead. IF she got "fortunate" and found someone who took her seriously, it's more likely they would have been living together now! that's what she meant with "...i stopped the affair because nothing good is coming out of it..." !!
> 
> she realized " i was the one she truly loved all along" because she woke-up to the fact her prince charming was just taking advantage of the free sex she was offering - i was indeed the "fall-back guy"!...she thought that by going all the way and giving it all to him, this guy will also take her seriously and eventually abandon his own marriage for her!...this is the reason she went back again and again, and allowed him to use her despite the feeling of being "dirty and disgusting" !
> 
> geez, now the picture is getting clearer and clearer...i can now see the light at the end of this loooong dark tunnel...
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, what my gut and doubts told me were actually the true answers i've been looking for...but i've got to hand it to her - she's a master manipulator.





Tatsuhiko said:


> Tell her that this is exactly how you feel and she has one hell of an uphill battle to prove to you otherwise. In fact, I can't even see how it's possible to prove something like that after everything that's transpired.
> 
> The fact that she insists she's not a FWB slunt actually makes her case a bit worse. It only reinforces the fact that she was looking for a genuine relationship and just failed to find one this time around.



sanchehrrai, I am so sorry, I can feel your suffering in every word you write. (Btw you are completely normal in the way you feel).

I don't know what the best answer is for you, but the posters here are really giving you their best.

Your wife's explanations show some honest self-reflection, she must be a somewhat thoughtful person.

I think the problem is twofold. She doesn't understand how much pain these questions are causing you, and she believes further discussion or confessions will only make it worse.

Because of this she is not able to give you the ongoing reassurance, openness/honesty, and devotion you need to really heal and perhaps, in some measure, move on from this.

Even if she was unhappy and willing to jump ship, (selfishness and weakness of character) she may now realize she was pursuing a fantasy, and that the new relationship energy she was experiencing was destine to give way to the reality of what a LTR is. She may actually feel like she is lucky to have you.

Was it a one time fall never to happen again? Some people only cheat once in their lifetime, perhaps in a perfect storm situation and guard against it thereafter, because their eyes are opened to the damage and loss and unhappiness it causes.

That may or may not be her. In most cases from what I have seen few learn this lesson.

Only you can discern that over time.

For it to work, she is going have to be willing to own the damage and pain she caused and walk with you through it. If she decides that it is too difficult or not worth the cost, or she is too fearful to take the risk, then she does not have what it takes to reconcile.

It is always your choice, at anytime, to live with whatever the current levels of remorsefulness and openness/honesty are or to end it and move on. If you decide 10 years from now that you cannot move on adequately from it, there is no shame, only you can decide what you can live with.

I think your marriage is at a tipping point. The current situation is going to eat away at your relationship until one or both of you give up. I am not so sure that she has ever been faced with the true nature of the situation, and unfortunately you may not be one who can do that. Kind of like the kid whose dad tells him to do this or that in his basketball and and its the dumbest thing the kid ever heard of, until the coach says it then its a brilliant idea. Yes it is a matter of familiarity and respect. (been there ha ha ha)

Here we often suggest that the betrayed spouse take action, like file for divorce, and use the instability that it causes to gain an honest hearing, "I'll do whatever it takes" kind of mindset. A smattering of hope mixed in can give them the courage to try, if they believe you will make the effort too. No promises of outcome are implied.

So who tells her? Sometimes the WW will take it upon herself to read and reach out for help, other times someone who has been through, some of the books often recommended here, or even her own thread somewhere, (under the right circumstances even here). 

If you are not familiar with @Affaircare she is a great resource and understands what a WW mindset is.


I am just trying to give you options, I can tell you are not trying to blow this up, but to find healing, healing which you deserve and are entitled to.

The deepest wiring in your brain wants fidelity from your partner. Competition of any kind sets you on edge and alarm bells go off, and you want to mate guard. You were never meant to live in a constant state of alarm and insecurity, a relentless feeling that you might be replaced or bested by another male.

Your wife's actions have triggered that. Without her sincere efforts to help you, you may be better off without her. She needs to understand this.

When we move through the levels of intimacy in a new relationship, there is a certain "benefit of the doubt" trust we give to the other person that can never be replaced after they remove the doubt. Only if we feel that their personal enlightenment and growth in character are enough to warrant trust can we in any measure feel safe with them again.

This generally requires their owning the actions and accepting the consequences for them. No consequences, no confidence.

So I will leave it at that. I really hope you can reach some peace in this, and I wish you well.
Take care.


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## Decorum

I guess I will post this too. @Chaparral. use to post this from time to time. You might consider printing it out and asking your wife to read it. The links in my sig at the bottom have this and some other reading on TAM that have been very helpful. So you might visit them as well.

Here it is... 

Re: Trying to work marriage out, but seems one-sided. Need perspective please. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.

The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand.

YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.

They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you’ll never cheat again. But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don’t see much change – at least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to moment, from one emotion to the next. They’re unpredictable. There’s no discernable pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can’t sleep. They can’t eat. Their thoughts are obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacks assault them without warning. They cry at the drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and their life until they feel like there’s nothing left. It’s terrible.

It’s an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what’s worse; you don’t know what to do. You’re not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they’ll get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they’re always caught by surprise; first by their partners’ knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never think about what they’ll face “after” until after. The fact is: Though they inflict it, adulterers are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses’ overwhelming emotional distress. Is this real? Is this permanent?

As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to “normal.” You ask yourself, “Is this real?” Then you ask, “Will this ever end?”

The simple answers are: Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time, often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient, empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse?

Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)

But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding from this disaster you’ve wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage. The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery.

So, take a couple of deep breaths… and let’s start with three foundational facts:

What you’re seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event.

Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal.

You can be a positive influence on their recovery.

Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat them without looking, continue.

Your first mission is to learn.

Learning about your partner’s myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize, understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through
this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time.
Below you’ll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don’t be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we’ve added some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there may be little for you to do except to simply “be there.”

Most importantly, remember at all times: Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse. Act accordingly.

SECTION 1 - THE WILD PATCHWORK OF EMOTIONS

DISBELIEF: They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can’t be true. They don’t believe it. This is natural. They trusted you and don’t want to believe you did what you did. It is common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.)

SHOCK: They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled. They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can’t seem to apply sufficient concentration to their day-to-day lives.

REALITY: “Oh my God. It really happened.” They feel they’re getting worse. Actually, reality has just set in. It’s as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they’re buried beneath them. They don’t know where to turn, or can’t. Don’t discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family. Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never accuse them of “being irrational” or “acting crazy.” Be supportive and encouraging. Commend them for seeking help.

CONFUSION: They’re disoriented. They can’t think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once they get there they can’t remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them. Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain “triggers.” (Note: Read more about “triggers” below.)

PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS: They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains, numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to rule out other causes. Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don’t nag. You might instead take control of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don’t cook, take them to restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If they’re not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It’s a good way to ease them into a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide opportunity for you to begin constructively re-establishing your “couplehood.”

CRYING: Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing and even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help. So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by gently encouraging them, to “get it all out.” Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you’ll see many more references below. Read “Apologize” in Section 2.)

SELF-CONTROL: They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain. Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to regain equilibrium. Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a dam. So don’t be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even themselves. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel this way to you when it happens, it’s beneficial.

NEED TO KNOW: They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited. Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, but they need information to process their trauma, move through it, and move past it.

Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you’re still keeping them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don’t match the story you tell, they’ll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you’ll never again be unfaithful.

WHY: They ask, “Why did you do this?” They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly. Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can’t stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you, they are still silently asking the question “Why?” over and over and over again.

INJUSTICE: They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”
Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”

A sad truth of infidelity is: It is unfair. Of course, there is no “justice” that can come from this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read “Share your feelings of guilt and shame” in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of injustice.)

INADEQUACY: Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, and often even unlovable. Just as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn’t give them a second thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner, even if they don’t ask. Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They’ll know if you aren’t, and false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more.

REPEATING: Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality. You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story – the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.

IDEALIZING: Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They long to live in the past, before the affair came along and “messed it up.” Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again. Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and, most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.

FRUSTRATION: Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven’t found new ones yet and don’t seem interested in finding any. They feel they’re not coping with grief “right” or they feel they should be healing faster. They don’t understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if they will ever recover and feel better. You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don’t or can’t fully understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they’re doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don’t be surprised if they choose to confide in you over others.

BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal.

WAITING: The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo, they are exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themselves. Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that hold their interest and bring joy back into their life.

EMOTIONS IN CONFLICT: This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD: “One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their danger.” The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer: “On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain.” The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and above all… keep talking.

TRIGGERS: Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever. It feels like they’re caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating.

Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if they will ever again experience life without the anguish. Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails, clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are.

Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you’re sorry you acted so selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse’s waist or shoulder, or simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again.

It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active for their entire life. Don’t ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should be “over it” because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even decades later. They will NEVER be “over it.” They simply learn to deal with it better as they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.

SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS?

Make certain you’ve killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly.

This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER.

GET INTO THERAPY: Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them and have faith in their methodology. Talk about it: If of you are uncomfortable with your therapist at any time, don’t delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counselling sessions. Your therapist will provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where you are now and determine if you’re making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative periods long enough to allow a “moderate-term” review rather than “short-term.” Expect setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.

APOLOGIZE: Actually, that should read: “Apologize, apologize, apologize.” You cannot apologize too often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses develop a finely calibrated “insincerity radar.” A partial or disingenuous apology will feel meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don’t merely say, “I’m sorry.” To a betrayed spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying everything that’s now salient to your partner: “I’m ashamed I cheated on you and I’m so very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me.” As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit.

REALIZE YOUR PARTNER WANTS TO FEEL BETTER: There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It’s agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which worries them even more. Remember that they can’t help it: Just as they didn’t choose for this to happen, they don’t choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse’s case), even if they don’t understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themselves – and they are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work. Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them.

HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING: While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.

You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don’t know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately.

The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.

SPEND LOTS TIME WITH THEM: Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight, the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you feel they’re a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they’ll let you know and you must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but expect them to check up on you. Don’t take offence when this happens. Instead, welcome the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the “Passed the Test” column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being trusted again.

PHYSICAL CONTACT: They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so, don’t be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They’re likely to be low on confidence and may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose moments when they don’t expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don’t be surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners experience what’s called ‘Hysterical Bonding.’ Also be aware that during lovemaking they may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want.

SHARE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT AND SHAME: If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they’ll wonder if you’re truly capable of being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and question if it’s really worth another try with you. But if you’re like most people who have badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express these feelings, but try. You’ll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It’s a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.

LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR CHOICE TO RECOMMIT: You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them ask. Just tell them. If it doesn’t seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and then, you ask yourself, “If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?” (Most of us would answer, “No,” even if we can’t imagine being in that position.) When people give second chances to others, they really want to know that it’s meaningful to, and appreciated by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the opportunity to repair the damage you’ve done and rebuild your marriage. You’ll be surprised how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to re-establish the bond between you.

HERE’S A GREAT TIP: You will find it’s particularly meaningful to them when they’re obviously feeling low, but they’re locked in silence and aren’t expressing it to you. Just imagine… In their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say, “I just want you to know how grateful I am that you’re giving me a second chance. Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I’ve been feeling so ashamed of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I’ll never do anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again.”

These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they’re delivered at such a perfect
moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most
comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these components:

A statement of gratitude.

An expression of your love.

An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.

An admission that you caused their pain.

An expression of your sense of shame.

A promise that it will never happen again

Unfaithful spouses I’ve counselled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best thing they did to lift their partner’s spirits – as well as their own.

SECTION 3 - SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STAGES, AFTER THEY WORK THROUGH ALL THEIR GRIEF, PAIN AND STRESS?

HOPE: They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care
for others.

COMMITMENT: They know they have a choice. Life won’t be the same, but they decide to actively begin building a new life.

SEEKING: They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They
begin exploring new involvements.

PEACE: They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future.

LIFE OPENS UP: Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy.

FORGIVENESS: While the memory will never leave them, the burden they’ve been carrying from your betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to themselves. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always.

Rejoice in your renewed commitment to spend your lives together in happiness. Celebrate it together regularly! 
__________________


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## scaredlion

Since she wants you to take some responsibility for her having an affair, ask her, after what she has done, will she take some responsibility if you decide to have an affair. I have been around the world several times, thanks to the US Army. An old soldier once told me there are three rules to living. They are......

(1) Never take advice from someone you wouldn't trade places with.

(2) Never say something that you wish you hadn't said because you can't take it back.

(3) Something is what it is and not something else.

They can be used in the situation of infidelity. I wish you well


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## sokillme

The real question here is not who she thinks she is but since you know what she is are you going to stay with her. If so why?


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## Marc878

Talk doesn't get you as much as your actions.


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## Be smart

It is perfectly normal for you to feel some anger or hurt. It shows that you care for your Family and Marriage. Dont be ashamed of showing your emotions. If you belive me I cried for days when she betrayed me.

There is more to her story and she will never told you because she is selfish person. Simple as that. 
She went looking for another man,trying to find her "soul mate" and she found him in this guy.This is why she kept contact with him for so long,arranged her little trips for meetings with him,brag about him to her and your friends because she belived he is the One. This is CONECTION she felt with him. 
It was easy for them because they didnt have to think about problems in real life.No bills,no health issues,no kids... They can only talk about them and what they want because both of them had a perfect spouse at home who is taking care of all those problems and issues.

Sex was good and this is why she went back and made efforts to cut you out.She didnt want to share herself with you because she thought he was the only one for her. In some way she was Cheating on him every time she slept with you.
New hairstyles down there,sexy lingerie,dirty sex is all her trying to "WIN" this guy for herself. More she gave-more she thought he was going to leave his wife and be with her. 

At the end he dumped her. Maybe his wife found out,maybe he got tired of her or maybe he found another stupid woman. 

In your case your wife will never learn. She is blaming you for all of this. She wants you to keep your eyes shut and move forward like nothing happend. At the age of 47 you would think she is a lot smarter. She had her fun,gave her best to another man,lied to you for years and still lying. Nothing changed,only now she is trying to blame you for her actions.

Stay strong my friend and sorry for bad English.


----------



## Marc878

I would think your wife has the insight that you haven't taken any action so you won't. Therefore she can pretty much do what she wants. You may not like it but there are no other consequences. If she cared anything about your feelings etc she'd have thought before she leaped but like most thoughts about you never entered into the equation. 

This was planned out and executed not some random thing at least after the first incident. She probably felt entitled for her bit of side fun. 

Unfortunately for you that's where you're at. You can try and analyze, understand, etc. but it's probably that simple.


----------



## sancheharri

sokillme said:


> The real question here is not who she thinks she is but since you know what she is are you going to stay with her. If so why?


i've been reading studies, advice columns, and posts in this forum like crazy. thanks to you guys, i'm now starting to feel some semblance of stability and direction. the answer whether to stay or not is still blank. many who replied to this thread advocate a quick and decisive exit. if it was easy, i would have done it already. that was my initial reaction when this affair came into light. when i look at my sons, it's not that simple anymore. and with all the confusion that ensued, i was frozen to inaction.

but thanks to all your replies and comments, my doubts and suspicions were validated. i am getting a clearer picture in the midst of all the lies and manipulations that have been thrown in front of me. 

i think the best move at this point is for me to get up, stabilize and take care of myself, and look after my sons welfare. 

i'm beginnning to realize that i'm never going to know the real and whole truth from her. the woman i knew and loved is "dead". i have to find the strength to let go of her and my marriage. i have to learn to embrace this new reality in my life.

i just hope when i start to move and get on with life i'd be walking in the right direction.


----------



## sancheharri

Marc878 said:


> I would think your wife has the insight that you haven't taken any action so you won't. Therefore she can pretty much do what she wants. You may not like it but there are no other consequences. If she cared anything about your feelings etc she'd have thought before she leaped but like most thoughts about you never entered into the equation.
> 
> This was planned out and executed not some random thing at least after the first incident. She probably felt entitled for her bit of side fun.
> 
> Unfortunately for you that's where you're at. You can try and analyze, understand, etc. but it's probably that simple.


this would probably her "second biggest mistake" if she thinks that things will be the same with no major consequences. i will NEVER allow her to hurt me like this again - ever. the only way to achieve this is to totally detach from her. whatever she does, if she ever repeats again, she will only be hurting herself.


----------



## Decorum

sancheharri said:


> this would probably her "second biggest mistake" if she thinks that things will be the same with no major consequences. i will NEVER allow her to hurt me like this again - ever. the only way to achieve this is to totally detach from her. whatever she does, if she ever repeats again, she will only be hurting herself.


sancheharri,

You want to move the pain (to her), not inflict it on yourself. 

You are only victimizing yourself with this mindset.

Sure detaching is a consequence, and it often is necessary in order to protect yourself when a WW is still inflicting damage, but the purpose is to allow you to move on and make good decisions from a stronger place.

If it is used as a primary consequence it is little more than a passive aggressive maneuver.

Especially if you have to keep reminding yourself to stay detached.

It is very different than the goal of indifference which takes time and healing.

Try not to do anything "to show her", do it for yourself, for the sake of your healing and happiness.

I hope this does not seem to pedantic. I just think you are making weak decisions because of your pain.

It is just going to take time, give yourself that, and take ACTIONS to give her consequences.


----------



## sokillme

sancheharri said:


> i've been reading studies, advice columns, and posts in this forum like crazy. thanks to you guys, i'm now starting to feel some semblance of stability and direction. the answer whether to stay or not is still blank. many who replied to this thread advocate a quick and decisive exit. if it was easy, i would have done it already. that was my initial reaction when this affair came into light. when i look at my sons, it's not that simple anymore. and with all the confusion that ensued, i was frozen to inaction.
> 
> but thanks to all your replies and comments, my doubts and suspicions were validated. i am getting a clearer picture in the midst of all the lies and manipulations that have been thrown in front of me.
> 
> i think the best move at this point is for me to get up, stabilize and take care of myself, and look after my sons welfare.
> 
> i'm beginnning to realize that i'm never going to know the real and whole truth from her. the woman i knew and loved is "dead". i have to find the strength to let go of her and my marriage. i have to learn to embrace this new reality in my life.
> 
> i just hope when i start to move and get on with life i'd be walking in the right direction.


That is a good start. It's true that quick and decisive is a better strategy in this situation. But no one thinks it is easy, we all know it is like walking through broken glass. And yes it's probably harder at first, unless you can use your anger to do it. It's just that slow in indecisive means the pain festers and you end up hurting more in the long run, sometimes for a lifetime. Learning to embracing the new reality is a great thing. Just hopefully the new reality will include hope for something better. Hope for true joy. And seeing your current reality and who you are married to in a cold harsh light. At least the way your wife is now you can't have something better.


----------



## sokillme

sancheharri said:


> this would probably her "second biggest mistake" if she thinks that things will be the same with no major consequences. i will NEVER allow her to hurt me like this again - ever. the only way to achieve this is to totally detach from her. whatever she does, if she ever repeats again, she will only be hurting herself.


What does this mean really? If detach means live in a false marriage with no emotional attachment then you have let her completely victimized you out of love in your life. That seems to be to be the most passive way anyone could possibly deal with this. Why not detach for real. Seriously what are you afraid of? Is living in a loveless marriage better then living alone with the possibility of a new happy one? I don't get it.


----------



## Marc878

sancheharri said:


> this would probably her "second biggest mistake" if she thinks that things will be the same with no major consequences. i will NEVER allow her to hurt me like this again - ever. the only way to achieve this is to totally detach from her. whatever she does, if she ever repeats again, she will only be hurting herself.


She considered you disposable. From her actions she still does. 

I doubt your detachment (if you can even archive it) will do much. Only a hard 180 and you going your own way will tell that.

Maybe move her out of your bedroom, take off your ring. Go out as much as possible, etc.

IMO, you stayed did nothing now you've set the tone. I don't like it but I'm here. So in reality she got what she wanted with zero consequences which means she can do it again if she wants. You can't stop her.


----------



## eric1

Detachment is a tool to be used to pull away so that you are making the right strategic decision rather than an emotional one. So it does sound like something that you need to do and also give yourself some more time to make a decision.

That's why I like filing for D as a tool. It starts the timer so to say, you'll have six months or so to make a decision. 

It also delivers a big fat consequence on her doorstep which, at this point, is the kindest thing that you can do for her. Without consequences she's not going to take (real) action and without action she's not going to change. And you need her to change if you want to stay in this marriage


----------



## manwithnoname

sancheharri said:


> i've been reading studies, advice columns, and posts in this forum like crazy. thanks to you guys, i'm now starting to feel some semblance of stability and direction. the answer whether to stay or not is still blank. many who replied to this thread advocate a quick and decisive exit. if it was easy, i would have done it already. that was my initial reaction when this affair came into light. when i look at my sons, it's not that simple anymore. and with all the confusion that ensued, i was frozen to inaction.
> 
> but thanks to all your replies and comments, my doubts and suspicions were validated. i am getting a clearer picture in the midst of all the lies and manipulations that have been thrown in front of me.
> 
> i think the best move at this point is for me to get up, stabilize and take care of myself, and look after my sons welfare.
> 
> *i'm beginnning to realize that i'm never going to know the real and whole truth from her. the woman i knew and loved is "dead". i have to find the strength to let go of her and my marriage. i have to learn to embrace this new reality in my life.*
> This is what's best for you
> 
> 
> *i just hope when i start to move and get on with life i'd be walking in the right direction.*


*
*

Forward!


----------



## eric1

manwithnoname said:


> [/B][/COLOR]
> 
> Forward!


To clarify this just a tad - it's not even your decision to move forward. Full disclosure is just one aspect of Full Remorse. Without full remorse she's made the decision to not want to reconcile. You have no choice but to move forward.

That's not to say that as you move forward you both have different paths that could lead to different outcomes, but deal with the problem (and solution) at hand.

Sorry, but right now your choice is limited to one option.


----------



## RWB

sancheharri said:


> *I'm beginning to realize that i'm never going to know the real and whole truth from her.*


Sanch,

You can get in line with the rest of us. It took me years to understand this. Regarding the truth of the affair(s)... There's always more.

While my wife admitted a lot. Told me things that I would of never "figured" out, I know there are things said, places she met OMs, and the cheat she became that she will never speak of. 

At some point, regardless of D or R, the BS just accepts this.


----------



## Be smart

sancheharri said:


> this would probably her "second biggest mistake" if she thinks that things will be the same with no major consequences. i will NEVER allow her to hurt me like this again - ever. the only way to achieve this is to totally detach from her. whatever she does, if she ever repeats again, she will only be hurting herself.


My friend you are wrong. If you think to prove your point this way or hurt her you are wrong,so verry wrong. 

The only one who is going to get hurt is you. Living your life like this is bad. Your kids will see this belive me and you dont want them to grow in Mariage like this one,right ?


----------



## sancheharri

sokillme said:


> What does this mean really? If detach means live in a false marriage with no emotional attachment then you have let her completely victimized you out of love in your life. That seems to be to be the most passive way anyone could possibly deal with this. Why not detach for real. Seriously what are you afraid of? Is living in a loveless marriage better then living alone with the possibility of a new happy one? I don't get it.





Marc878 said:


> She considered you disposable. From her actions she still does.
> 
> I doubt your detachment (if you can even archive it) will do much. Only a hard 180 and you going your own way will tell that.
> 
> Maybe move her out of your bedroom, take off your ring. Go out as much as possible, etc.
> 
> IMO, you stayed did nothing now you've set the tone. I don't like it but I'm here. So in reality she got what she wanted with zero consequences which means she can do it again if she wants. You can't stop her.


i am "detaching" to minimize or avoid more pain inflicted on me. i can't bear it anymore. i wanted to engage her to find the truth and healing, but it just caused me more pain and confusion. i need a "first aid" from the emotional wounds, i'm bleeding and very exhausted. yes, i admit i fear the future. i used to have a vision for our marriage and family, now it's all gone. i'm staring at a blank wall. i need to detach to reorganize my thoughts, heal and recover. i do not expect help from her anymore. i'm on my own. i have to find strength from within me. and when i find that strength, i can make sound decisions that will affect the rest of my life and my sons' future.



eric1 said:


> Detachment is a tool to be used to pull away so that you are making the right strategic decision rather than an emotional one. So it does sound like something that you need to do and also give yourself some more time to make a decision.
> 
> That's why I like filing for D as a tool. It starts the timer so to say, you'll have six months or so to make a decision.
> 
> It also delivers a big fat consequence on her doorstep which, at this point, is the kindest thing that you can do for her. Without consequences she's not going to take (real) action and without action she's not going to change. And you need her to change if you want to stay in this marriage


yes, you got my thoughts regarding my "detachment" move. and i also now know that without "major consequences", she will never see and learn the TRUE horror and damage of infidelity. i am just saddened that the innocents (my sons) will be unfairly affected.



Be smart said:


> My friend you are wrong. If you think to prove your point this way or hurt her you are wrong,so verry wrong.
> 
> The only one who is going to get hurt is you. Living your life like this is bad. Your kids will see this belive me and you dont want them to grow in Mariage like this one,right ?


thank you for all your concerns, but i am not doing this "detachment" to prove a point to her. i'm doing this for myself. this is just a temporary "band aid" for the wounds and pain i'm going through. the TRUE and FULL CONSEQUENCES of her foolishness is yet to come.


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## sancheharri

guys, i talked to her a while ago, and told her to just let me be for the time being to procees my thoughts and think as to where i want to go from hereon. she said she understands but feels "betrayed". she thought i would not abandon her. i didn't get what she meant by that, then i remembered this - 

before she confessed a few months ago, i've been telling her that she has nothing to fear, that she can tell me the whole truth about this guy. i somehow promised to her that we will get through this together, that i will be beside her whatever problems she's having. i told her we will never solve this issue (my suspicions about the evidences) unless she becomes honest and truthful....that i'll be there for her no matter what.

although the worst scenario was blipping in my mind, i suppressed it because i didn't see her as capable of such behavior. but the worst scenario was what i did hear from her "full confession". i was literally shocked by what i heard from her "full confession". i was expecting "...we just became very close...", or perhaps "just held hands" (EMOTIONAL AFFAIR) or some sort, but never a FULL-BLOWN SEXUAL/EMOTIONAL AFFAIR that lasted a few months. 

i remember that she even told me that her father said to her that "I SHOUD ACCEPT AND HANDLE THE TRUTH BECAUSE I ASKED FOR IT". 

please bear with me if i just revealed this just now. so much has been said and transpired, i'm having a hard time recalling all of it. the confusion and emotions jumbled my memories and thought process. 

i would like to hear your comments if you'd be kind enough to indulge me a bit more about my issues...TIA.


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## Malaise

That's what happens when you make blanket statements before knowing everything. Did she somehow manipulate you into making that promise or was it all you?


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## Malaise

sancheharri said:


> guys, i talked to her a while ago, and told her to just let me be for the time being to procees my thoughts and think as to where i want to go from hereon. she said she understands but feels "betrayed". she thought i would not abandon her. i didn't get what she meant by that, then i remembered this -
> 
> before she confessed a few months ago, i've been telling her that she has nothing to fear, that she can tell me the whole truth about this guy. i somehow promised to her that we will get through this together, that i will be beside her whatever problems she's having. i told her we will never solve this issue (my suspicions about the evidences) unless she becomes honest and truthful....that i'll be there for her no matter what.
> 
> *although the worst scenario was blipping in my mind, i suppressed it because i didn't see her as capable of such behavior. but the worst scenario was what i did hear from her "full confession". i was literally shocked by what i heard from her "full confession". i was expecting "...we just became very close...", or perhaps "just held hands" (EMOTIONAL AFFAIR) or some sort, but never a FULL-BLOWN SEXUAL/EMOTIONAL AFFAIR that lasted a few months.
> 
> *i remember that she even told me that her father said to her that "I SHOUD ACCEPT AND HANDLE THE TRUTH BECAUSE I ASKED FOR IT".
> 
> please bear with me if i just revealed this just now. so much has been said and transpired, i'm having a hard time recalling all of it. the confusion and emotions jumbled my memories and thought process.
> 
> i would like to hear your comments if you'd be kind enough to indulge me a bit more about my issues...TIA.


Did you point this out to her? Did you have any comeback?


----------



## Tron

You lied once to get the truth out of her. She lied, betrayed and had at least one affair that lasted months.

Not even remotely the same. 

As far as "ACCEPTING AND HANDLING THE TRUTH"...you accept that she is a liar and a cheater and divorcing her is your way of handling it.


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## sancheharri

Malaise said:


> That's what happens when you make blanket statements before knowing everything. Did she somehow manipulate you into making that promise or was it all you?





Malaise said:


> Did you point this out to her? Did you have any comeback?


i think it was all me. i was so desparate then after years of "wondering" what those evidences were all about. i would have promised her the moon and the stars just to get the "full answers" from her because she was denying everything for years despite my suspicions. it was killing me (yup, the "truth" killed me).

yes, i remember i told her that i expected something bad, but didn't expect the worst. i told her i regarded her so highly that i didn't consider she could even think stooping that low...


----------



## Marc878

@[MENTION];[/MENTION]


sancheharri said:


> guys, i talked to her a while ago, and told her to just let me be for the time being to procees my thoughts and think as to where i want to go from hereon. she said she understands but feels "betrayed". she thought i would not abandon her. i didn't get what she meant by that, then i remembered this -
> 
> Like she abandons you ?
> 
> before she confessed a few months ago, i've been telling her that she has nothing to fear, that she can tell me the whole truth about this guy. i somehow promised to her that we will get through this together, that i will be beside her whatever problems she's having. i told her we will never solve this issue (my suspicions about the evidences) unless she becomes honest and truthful....that i'll be there for her no matter what.
> 
> Things change. You had no idea of the full scope plus you were dealing with a cheating liar
> 
> although the worst scenario was blipping in my mind, i suppressed it because i didn't see her as capable of such behavior. but the worst scenario was what i did hear from her "full confession". i was literally shocked by what i heard from her "full confession". i was expecting "...we just became very close...", or perhaps "just held hands" (EMOTIONAL AFFAIR) or some sort, but never a FULL-BLOWN SEXUAL/EMOTIONAL AFFAIR that lasted a few months.
> 
> You deserved the truth and never deserved her disrespect or betrayal.
> 
> i remember that she even told me that her father said to her that "I SHOUD ACCEPT AND HANDLE THE TRUTH BECAUSE I ASKED FOR IT".
> 
> That's a BS self serving statement and no matter what she does he'll side with her. I'd tell him to shove that up his rectum. I got news for you. He's nothing to you and his opinions don't count at all.
> 
> please bear with me if i just revealed this just now. so much has been said and transpired, i'm having a hard time recalling all of it. the confusion and emotions jumbled my memories and thought process.
> 
> i would like to hear your comments if you'd be kind enough to indulge me a bit more about my issues...TIA.


You had no idea she would have stooped this low. I'm sure your statements were before you knew the depth of depravity she participated in. 

What they are both saying is you should be held accountable Because you didn't know the truth? Total BS. Maybe she should have just given you and your feelings from being her husband a second thought before spreading for the bellboy. 

You my friend are being manipulated. This is your life too. Your wayward wife took herself out of that equation.


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## Marc878

sancheharri said:


> i think it was all me. i was so desparate then after years of "wondering" what those evidences were all about. i would have promised her the moon and the stars just to get the "full answers" from her because she was denying everything for years despite my suspicions. it was killing me (yup, the "truth" killed me).
> 
> yes, i remember i told her that i expected something bad, but didn't expect the worst. i told her i regarded her so highly that i didn't consider she could even think stooping that low...


Ask her this. 

Did you have your fingers crossed behind your back when you took your wedding vows? So they meant nothing?

I'd bet money this wasn't her first rodeo either.


----------



## Lostinthought61

sancheharri said:


> i think it was all me. i was so desparate then after years of "wondering" what those evidences were all about. i would have promised her the moon and the stars just to get the "full answers" from her because she was denying everything for years despite my suspicions. it was killing me (yup, the "truth" killed me).
> 
> yes, i remember i told her that i expected something bad, but didn't expect the worst. i told her i regarded her so highly that i didn't consider she could even think stooping that low...



I am completely agree with that last statement Sancheharri,.....I really don't understand the mentality of those who are guilty of transgressions feel that once they have lifted themselves of their sins to their spouse, open up and spoke the truth that they should suddenly be absolved, that they only need to say a couple Hail Mary's and a couple Our Fathers and suddenly they are cleansed and all should be good with the world. Accepting the truth is one thing dealing with the aftermath of that truth is still another.....are you thankful she spoke up and told her her transgressions against you...yes absolutely but and here is the big but, there is the truth but there is also the severity of that truth.....to say that she spoke to a man...perhaps exchanged pictures and words....but she did not stop there she had sex with the man and expressed feeling for him....with each step the severity of her transgression becoming greater and greater...and to expect it no repercussion because she was a good person and told you the truth......sorry but homey don't play that game....she went way pass forgiveness....with every line she crossed that severity radically and demonstrably destroyed your relationship between the two of you...remind her that she does own the word betrayed you do....ask her this...would it be better as a punishment that instead of divorce that you be allowed to opening have an affair on her with someone of your choosing for sometime...so as to level the playing field...I would be curious what her answer would be....i will tell you this, if you remain in this marriage based what you have mention before as to her reaction that will forever have someone who will never take ownership and will always tell you, at least i told you the truth....as a way to prove to you the type of person she is....but we both know what type she is.


----------



## Steve1000

sancheharri said:


> guys, what is "BONDING" or "CONNECTION" for you? i think my cheating wife just "slipped" a while ago when i asked her again what triggered and what happened in the first sexual encounter during her affair. she "slipped" by telling me that - "...we bonded when we had sex...we connected...we cuddled a bit after we had sex for the first time..."
> 
> never mind that she allegedly told him a day after that "it was just sex", that slip-up tells me clearly that she indeed "fell for that guy, or she got emotionally attached". this is opposite to her claims that "the affair or the guy meant nothing to her".


Your post brings back some vivid memories of what I was thinking after I found out that a fiance had cheated 1 1/2 years earlier. I was also stuck on some of these details. Unfortunately, you'll never get good logical answers to many of your questions, even if your wife was more remorseful. A more solvable question, that can tell you a lot, would be why they ended the affair.


----------



## TX-SC

I believe you would be better off just divorcing and moving on. Even now, she's still stuck on how SHE feels. I think you can do better. 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## TX-SC

Oh, and her father can go **** himself. 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## sokillme

sancheharri said:


> guys, i talked to her a while ago, and told her to just let me be for the time being to procees my thoughts and think as to where i want to go from hereon. she said she understands but feels "betrayed". she thought i would not abandon her. i didn't get what she meant by that, then i remembered this -
> 
> before she confessed a few months ago, i've been telling her that she has nothing to fear, that she can tell me the whole truth about this guy. i somehow promised to her that we will get through this together, that i will be beside her whatever problems she's having. i told her we will never solve this issue (my suspicions about the evidences) unless she becomes honest and truthful....that i'll be there for her no matter what.
> 
> although the worst scenario was blipping in my mind, i suppressed it because i didn't see her as capable of such behavior. but the worst scenario was what i did hear from her "full confession". i was literally shocked by what i heard from her "full confession". i was expecting "...we just became very close...", or perhaps "just held hands" (EMOTIONAL AFFAIR) or some sort, but never a FULL-BLOWN SEXUAL/EMOTIONAL AFFAIR that lasted a few months.
> 
> i remember that she even told me that her father said to her that "I SHOUD ACCEPT AND HANDLE THE TRUTH BECAUSE I ASKED FOR IT".
> 
> please bear with me if i just revealed this just now. so much has been said and transpired, i'm having a hard time recalling all of it. the confusion and emotions jumbled my memories and thought process.
> 
> i would like to hear your comments if you'd be kind enough to indulge me a bit more about my issues...TIA.


Tell her you are no longer getting what you need in this marriage and your feelings have changed so you are entitled to get what you need. She should understand that thinking. And quit letting her use your codependency against you. Get some help stop trying to fix her and be her KISA. Just stop it. Your post before this one about getting away to get strong actually gave me some hope for you. You need to get strong though as she knows how to push your buttons and will do it over and over if you let her.


----------



## honcho

sancheharri said:


> guys, i talked to her a while ago, and told her to just let me be for the time being to procees my thoughts and think as to where i want to go from hereon. she said she understands but feels "betrayed". she thought i would not abandon her. i didn't get what she meant by that, then i remembered this -
> 
> before she confessed a few months ago, i've been telling her that she has nothing to fear, that she can tell me the whole truth about this guy. i somehow promised to her that we will get through this together, that i will be beside her whatever problems she's having. i told her we will never solve this issue (my suspicions about the evidences) unless she becomes honest and truthful....that i'll be there for her no matter what.
> 
> although the worst scenario was blipping in my mind, i suppressed it because i didn't see her as capable of such behavior. but the worst scenario was what i did hear from her "full confession". i was literally shocked by what i heard from her "full confession". i was expecting "...we just became very close...", or perhaps "just held hands" (EMOTIONAL AFFAIR) or some sort, but never a FULL-BLOWN SEXUAL/EMOTIONAL AFFAIR that lasted a few months.
> 
> i remember that she even told me that her father said to her that "I SHOUD ACCEPT AND HANDLE THE TRUTH BECAUSE I ASKED FOR IT".
> 
> please bear with me if i just revealed this just now. so much has been said and transpired, i'm having a hard time recalling all of it. the confusion and emotions jumbled my memories and thought process.
> 
> i would like to hear your comments if you'd be kind enough to indulge me a bit more about my issues...TIA.


You aren't abandoning her, she willfully had an affair and she still hasn't told you the whole truth. Your "promise" is meaningless at this point in my opinion she is simply trying to guilt you to stay and cherry picking a comment to put this back on you. 

Have you even talked to her father, I'd bet he got trickle truthed a bunch too and doesn't know the full extent of the situation and frankly who cares his opinion, your not married to him.


----------



## scaredlion

Someone told me once that I shouldn't ask questions if I can't deal with the answers. It's kind of like you want to know but you don't want to know. You wife did a despicable and reprehensible thing to you. After a couple of years it had eaten at you until you were willing to do most anything to get the answers you wanted.
I am one of those people who believes that honor requires a person to uphold a promise given. You made a promise to your wife, of your own free will, that if she told you the truth that you would still stand by her and try to work on the marriage. To me, breaking my word, is a violation of my honor. You have created yourself a dilemma. If she ever steps out of the marriage again then the promise is void and you walk away. Be careful what you promise. I wish you well.


----------



## sancheharri

THANK YOU to all of you. reading all your replies and messages of encouragement helped me a lot to regain my balance. i found answers to a lot of questions that have been bothering me.

yes, "my promise" added to the initial mayhem during the early stages of her "full-confession". she always shouted to me "...you said you will be at my side no matter what...you promised to accept the truth...if i'd only known this would be the result of my confession, i wouldn't have told you instead...i should have kept my mouth shut and dealt with this on my own!..."

perhaps, she intended to tell me parts of her affair story to test what would be my reaction...and i blew-up, so she decided to withold the rest of the truth to avoid being buried in deeper sh*t. what do you think guys?

i don't intend to go there and talk to her parents at this point. i couldn't care less what they have to say...to h*ll with them! 

guys, i think i connected several dots just now - the reason for her statement that "she thinks the guy didn't just use her for sex" or just took advantage of her, that the guy was true and honest to her is this statement --- "...we had sex...we BONDED when we had sex...we connected..." . another clear indication that in wasn't casual at all...she really developed deep intimate feelings for this man. 

i'm sorry if i seem to be repeating the obvious things here. i'm just thinking out loud and sharing my thoughts. i feel that members in this forum are sincere listeners and really want to help distressed people like me.


----------



## sancheharri

guys, one more thing, i've asked her to remove our family picture (at least, only the pictures with me in it) from her facebook account. she refused and caused more arguments. i'm so ashamed to have my face plastered on her fb page. it bothers me that her friends (and affair partners) are looking and laughing at us (me). "...oh, here's the stupid lame husband!...his wife is f*cking other guys and here they are smiling like a blissful family made in heaven!..."

am i being too paranoid? am i making a mountain out of a molehill? why the hell she doesn't want to remove my pictures?


----------



## azteca1986

sancheharri said:


> guys, one more thing, i've asked her to remove our family picture (at least, only the pictures with me in it) from her facebook account. she refused and caused more arguments. i'm so ashamed to have my face plastered on her fb page. it bothers me that her friends (and affair partners) are looking and laughing at us (me). "...oh, here's the stupid lame husband!...*his wife is f*cking other guys* and here they are smiling like a blissful family made in heaven!..."


Firstly, sorry you're here friend. Is there any evidence she's had more than one affair? I didn't get that impression. More importantly, who the hell cares what OM(s) think? If they do get something from seeing those pictures it says more about them than you. **** 'em.



> am i being too paranoid? *am i making a mountain out of a molehill?* why the hell she doesn't want to remove my pictures?


Yes you are. You're clearly very upset and I hope everybody posting does so in a way that will help calm you. Whatever image your WW wants to project on social media, for now, is not important. Try not to get into these petty arguments; it won't help you detach and get a clear mind for yourself. 

To answer your question: She wants to keep the pictures because she wants to keep the relationship.


sancheharri said:


> guys, i talked to her a while ago, and told her to just let me be for the time being to procees my thoughts and think as to where i want to go from hereon. she said *she understands but feels "betrayed"*. she thought i would not abandon her. i didn't get what she meant by that, then i remembered this -
> 
> before she confessed a few months ago, i've been telling her that she has nothing to fear, that she can tell me the whole truth about this guy. i somehow promised to her that we will get through this together, that i will be beside her whatever problems she's having. i told her we will never solve this issue (my suspicions about the evidences) unless she becomes honest and truthful....that i'll be there for her no matter what.


You know, I think she has a point. You said one thing and now you're saying another. When you've been put in this situation it's incredibly hard to conduct yourself correctly. 

In this scenario you should accept that she feels betrayed. You did make a promise to find out the truth, but now you know the truth you're not sure you can keep that promise. It's okay. Don't be defensive. Admit your fault here. 

And then leave it to her whether she'll forgive you. Or not.

What you *should not do*: Don't get sucked into a "trade". She betrayed you, you betrayed her, who feels more hurt, which is the greater betrayal (it's obvious), etc. It'll just exhaust you and is pointless.

If she does try to argue that both betrayals are equal (they're not) it would indicate is that she's trying to manipulate you to stay in the marriage. This would be expected in her situation, she knows she's wronged you and will try anything.

SO, admit that in hindsight you shouldn't have made such a promise, but now at least you have the truth. And you can both move forward with honesty.


----------



## goingsolo12

@ sancheharri 

Really? She feels betrayed? Sancheharri my friend I'll try to explain my thoughts about how your wife thinks. This is just my general observation from your posts. Apologies if i cross a line or if my opinions are not acceptable.

Lets talk about her feeling 'Betrayed' , she has no right to even use that term against you. I'll try to explain this via an example- Crimes are of different natures, you cannot give the same sentence for pick pocketing and a gruesome murder, a pick pocket-er and a murderer will get extremely different sentences as punishments in the court of law. So in short in her mind she considers you breaking your promise (to hell with that promise!) and her breaking her sacred vows to you of the same nature which is totally unjustified. 

Now let us understand why is she doing this, why does she consider you breaking your promise and her breaking those sacred vows to you similar? Well the answer is simple, its because of who she is, she is trying to protect herself and because of who she is for her the best form of defense is attack, attack you to be precise. She knows you are a nice guy with a moral code she knows who you are therefore she chose to attack your integrity by saying you 'broke' your promise, to weaken your stance, to push your mind away from the core issue which is her cheating.
She has noting on you sancheharri , she knows that, so how does she fight back? By bringing up a stupid promise which in my opinion in this situation holds zero relevance.

Lastly, your wife loves to be in control, she is not in control of this situation and it scares her, she thought she could control you, she thought she could manipulate you as she has done through out your marriage. She is unable to and therefore she would do anything to berate you, to push you to your knees. She is selfish and she is a master manipulator. 

Ask her if she would be okay with you doing the same? sleeping around with other women just for 'casual sex' and notice her reaction, she thinks the world revolves around her.

I wish you all the best sancheharri, you are better than her, always remember that, you deserve better.


----------



## eric1

sancheharri said:


> guys, one more thing, i've asked her to remove our family picture (at least, only the pictures with me in it) from her facebook account. she refused and caused more arguments. i'm so ashamed to have my face plastered on her fb page. it bothers me that her friends (and affair partners) are looking and laughing at us (me). "...oh, here's the stupid lame husband!...his wife is f*cking other guys and here they are smiling like a blissful family made in heaven!..."
> 
> am i being too paranoid? am i making a mountain out of a molehill? why the hell she doesn't want to remove my pictures?




You're playing games. You are a family until you file. Don't be passive aggressive about it.

Also, you are supposed to be doing the 180. She could have a picture of you going down on a wax sculpture of Justin Beiber as her Facebook photo and you should not care.

Detach


----------



## goingsolo12

sancheharri said:


> guys, one more thing, i've asked her to remove our family picture (at least, only the pictures with me in it) from her facebook account. she refused and caused more arguments. i'm so ashamed to have my face plastered on her fb page. it bothers me that her friends (and affair partners) are looking and laughing at us (me). "...oh, here's the stupid lame husband!...his wife is f*cking other guys and here they are smiling like a blissful family made in heaven!..."
> 
> am i being too paranoid? am i making a mountain out of a molehill? why the hell she doesn't want to remove my pictures?


 @sancheharri

Things like facebook pictures shouldn't bother you, you have to show indifference towards her and her world, right now the only people you need to care about are you and your boys. Let her keep her facade. Every time she invokes an argument with you she is winning, frankly that is what she wants, your reaction, your attention, what will hurt her the most? your indifference towards her. Let her be as she wishes, the kind of personality your wife is (assuming I understood all your posts correctly) detachment would drive her crazy. But don't detach to punish her, detach for yourself, to protect your feelings so that you can make rational observations and decisions.

All the best sancheharri


----------



## drifting on

If you want the Facebook pictures removed, just comment on them. Such as, "I'm standing with my wife who just got back from banging her affair partner". Find a picture of her and her dad, comment with, " here is my wife the cheater and the father who supports her cheating ways". Keep going like that and maybe she'll delete her account. Oh, and if you find a picture of her by herself, say, "here is my wife after banging her boyfriend"!!!! Lots of ways you can get her to delete those photos!! Ask her in person why she got mad at you wanting those photos removed? Is she because OM isn't in them? Is she mad because you made her cheat? I guess my response to that would be, "if I'm so destroyed over your affair what makes you think I would send your stupid ass into the arms of another male"? No wife, you made that decision on your own, you chose to betray your marriage and your sons.


----------



## drifting on

Better yet sancheharri, comment on a photo of you two with a picture of your dissolution of marriage papers and then a closeup with the reason as, adultery and list the OM's name. See how fast pictures get deleted!!!


----------



## sancheharri

goingsolo12 said:


> @ sancheharri
> 
> Really? She feels betrayed? Sancheharri my friend I'll try to explain my thoughts about how your wife thinks. This is just my general observation from your posts. Apologies if i cross a line or if my opinions are not acceptable.
> 
> Lets talk about her feeling 'Betrayed' , she has no right to even use that term against you. I'll try to explain this via an example- Crimes are of different natures, you cannot give the same sentence for pick pocketing and a gruesome murder, a pick pocket-er and a murderer will get extremely different sentences as punishments in the court of law. So in short in her mind she considers you breaking your promise (to hell with that promise!) and her breaking her sacred vows to you of the same nature which is totally unjustified.
> 
> Now let us understand why is she doing this, why does she consider you breaking your promise and her breaking those sacred vows to you similar? Well the answer is simple, its because of who she is, she is trying to protect herself and because of who she is for her the best form of defense is attack, attack you to be precise. She knows you are a nice guy with a moral code she knows who you are therefore she chose to attack your integrity by saying you 'broke' your promise, to weaken your stance, to push your mind away from the core issue which is her cheating.
> She has noting on you sancheharri , she knows that, so how does she fight back? By bringing up a stupid promise which in my opinion in this situation holds zero relevance.
> 
> Lastly, your wife loves to be in control, she is not in control of this situation and it scares her, she thought she could control you, she thought she could manipulate you as she has done through out your marriage. She is unable to and therefore she would do anything to berate you, to push you to your knees. She is selfish and she is a master manipulator.
> 
> Ask her if she would be okay with you doing the same? sleeping around with other women just for 'casual sex' and notice her reaction, she thinks the world revolves around her.
> 
> I wish you all the best sancheharri, you are better than her, always remember that, you deserve better.


yes, it just occured to me that perhaps one of the reasons she is acting this way is to control the fall-out of this mess she created. 

i can now recall she once uttered to me that she wants to be given the chance to make-up and fix things between us. she wants to try and do everything she can to save the marriage before calling it quits. 

she is afraid of the fact that she is the one responsible for the demise of her marriage, and she doesn't want to bear that guilt till old age. she desparately wants me to stay for a while so she can at least say to herself that "she tried her best" to make-up and save her marriage if it eventually leads to divorce.


----------



## TX-SC

I would not worry over the FB pictures right now. That can be worked out later. Right now, concentrate on detaching from your wife and get the D started. 

As for your other comment, you know your wife better than we do, but she has dropped plenty of hints about how she doesn't do "friends with benefits", etc. So, yes, I suspect she was in love with him. They had sex, they bonded. Not sure how this should effect you, but regardless of what she says now, you should assume she was in love. 

Some women consider the emotional aspect as more important than the physical, so if she can convince you that she never loved him, then it isn't as big of a betrayal for her. Most men see the physical as at least as important, if not more so. 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## Malaise

TX-SC said:


> I would not worry over the FB pictures right now. That can be worked out later. Right now, concentrate on detaching from your wife and get the D started.
> 
> As for your other comment, you know your wife better than we do, but she has dropped plenty of hints about how *she doesn't do "friends with benefits", etc. So, yes, I suspect she was in love with him.* They had sex, they bonded. Not sure how this should effect you, but regardless of what she says now, you should assume she was in love.
> 
> Some women consider the emotional aspect as more important than the physical, so* if she can convince you that she never loved him, then it isn't as big of a betrayal for her*. Most men see the physical as at least as important, if not more so.
> 
> Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


Again, if it was just meaningless sex why would she risk throwing away her marriage ( which she wants to try to save now ) over it? ( I know, she wasn't supposed to get caught )

She can't have that both ways.


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## sancheharri

goingsolo12 said:


> @sancheharri
> 
> Things like facebook pictures shouldn't bother you, you have to show indifference towards her and her world, right now the only people you need to care about are you and your boys. Let her keep her facade. Every time she invokes an argument with you she is winning, frankly that is what she wants, your reaction, your attention, what will hurt her the most? your indifference towards her. Let her be as she wishes, the kind of personality your wife is (assuming I understood all your posts correctly) detachment would drive her crazy. But don't detach to punish her, detach for yourself, to protect your feelings so that you can make rational observations and decisions.
> 
> All the best sancheharri


yes, i want to detach for my own well-being. i feel sick already. i've already lost weight and i look like someone who hasn't slept for a week. i don't eat regular meals, and sometimes i neglect my own personal hygiene. what the hell am i doing to myself??? i don't wanna die because of this person!

i'm not inclined to take revenge or punish her at this point, i have no more energy to think about those anymore. i just wanna get over this and get better. i'm just simply exhausted and spent.

yeah, i also think she wants to get my attention. she wants me to see her efforts. i say this because everytime i ignore her she goes apesh*t! why did i ignore her calls, why didn't i wait for her for dinner, why am i not telling her what went on with my day, etc, etc...it's really crazy! but it's not that i'm punishing her, it's just that i'm so tired i'm like a zombie.


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## sancheharri

drifting on said:


> Better yet sancheharri, comment on a photo of you two with a picture of your dissolution of marriage papers and then a closeup with the reason as, adultery and list the OM's name. See how fast pictures get deleted!!!


it's been a while since i laughed at something...this is a good one. thanks!


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## sancheharri

TX-SC said:


> I would not worry over the FB pictures right now. That can be worked out later. Right now, concentrate on detaching from your wife and get the D started.
> 
> As for your other comment, you know your wife better than we do, but she has dropped plenty of hints about how she doesn't do "friends with benefits", etc. So, yes, I suspect she was in love with him. They had sex, they bonded. Not sure how this should effect you, but regardless of what she says now, you should assume she was in love.
> 
> Some women consider the emotional aspect as more important than the physical, so if she can convince you that she never loved him, then it isn't as big of a betrayal for her. Most men see the physical as at least as important, if not more so.
> 
> Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


yes, tx-sc, i think this is the real picture. LosingHim's explanation got me started to conclude this way. with other members also commenting, i just found myself connecting the dots. by telling me that "she also got terribly hurt" by what happened, and "things were getting serious", i now see that those were dead giveaway hints that she really was in love. i was just very confused to see those things then. either way, she's ****ed!

no, it doesn't affect the fact SHE BETRAYED ME, SHE DESTROYED HER MARRIAGE. it just made me understand the REAL story of her affair. i think i'm going to find closure on this eventually. i'm going to be fine...


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## drifting on

sancheharri said:


> it's been a while since i laughed at something...this is a good one. thanks!




Glad you had a chuckle, but you do know this can be very useful in exposure. It will also bring the photo to the top of her newsfeed so others can see. Your choice, but in my opinion this may knock her entitled horse to the ground.


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## sancheharri

Malaise said:


> Again, if it was just meaningless sex why would she risk throwing away her marriage ( which she wants to try to save now ) over it? ( I know, she wasn't supposed to get caught )
> 
> She can't have that both ways.


yeah, it's now clear she's just doing some damage control that's why she said those confusing statements. having sex with another man is bad enough, but being in love is something else. she has definitely abandoned our marriage 100% to be with that man. 

i now remember (again, sorry for the piecemeal recollections) she told me before that she had a talk with her sister, and she allegedly told her that "...why spend energy to start a new relationship if those efforts should be spent on rebuilding and strengthening what already she has (her marriage)?..." i suspect they had this talk when she started to realize "her new relationship is going nowhere", despite the sorry fact she already gave everything to the ther guy. (geez, i'm feeling sorry for myself on this one)

that is why she goes crazy everytime the words sl*t, wh*re, sp*rm-receptacle gets thrown at her (i stopped doing this)...


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## sancheharri

drifting on said:


> Glad you had a chuckle, but you do know this can be very useful in exposure. It will also bring the photo to the top of her newsfeed so others can see. Your choice, but in my opinion this may knock her entitled horse to the ground.


thanks for the suggestion but a number of her girlfriends already know about her married boyfriend. even before they were still in the emotional affair stage, she told me that she bragged to her friends that this guy is so into her. some of her girlfriends allegedly cautioned her from pursuing that "friendship", some cheered her on. gosh, she was even proud of it!...but now she contritely says she's not proud of what she has done...shesh!

but this suggestion is worth a try...


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## TX-SC

sancheharri said:


> thanks for the suggestion but a number of her girlfriends already know about her married boyfriend. even before they were still in the emotional affair stage, she told me that she bragged to her friends that this guy is so into her. some of her girlfriends allegedly cautioned her from pursuing that "friendship", some cheered her on. gosh, she was even proud of it!...but now she contritely says she's not proud of what she has done...shesh!
> 
> but this suggestion is worth a try...


Please dump this woman as soon as possible. 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## Malaise

You've used the word 'allegedly' a couple times now. Told her sister, etc.

I gather this is from her mouth and as such you can't believe she told her sister anything positive. She lies to control the narrative. Big surprise.


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## GusPolinski

sancheharri said:


> thanks for the suggestion but a number of her girlfriends already know about her married boyfriend. even before they were still in the emotional affair stage, she told me that she bragged to her friends that this guy is so into her. some of her girlfriends allegedly cautioned her from pursuing that "friendship", some cheered her on. gosh, she was even proud of it!...but now she contritely says she's not proud of what she has done...shesh!
> 
> but this suggestion is worth a try...


If you're going to continue in marriage (and, FWIW, I wouldn't), anyone and everyone that encouraged her relationship w/ OM needs to go away, and for good.

Also, has the affair been exposed to OM's wife?


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## farsidejunky

sancheharri said:


> thanks for the suggestion but a number of her girlfriends already know about her married boyfriend. even before they were still in the emotional affair stage, she told me that she bragged to her friends that this guy is so into her. some of her girlfriends allegedly cautioned her from pursuing that "friendship", some cheered her on. gosh, she was even proud of it!...but now she contritely says she's not proud of what she has done...shesh!
> 
> but this suggestion is worth a try...


Does she still spend time with those "friends"?


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## eric1

You need to concentrate 100% on seeing a lawyer and detaching. The ball is in her court now.


----------



## drifting on

Sancheharri

I say this with respect to you, but if you want to heal and become healthy again, you need to divorce this woman. Have you looked into narcissist or BPD if it already hasn't been mentioned? I'm sorry this person just finds new ways to cause you pain.


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## Tatsuhiko

I can't imagine how I'd feel if my cheating wife told me she felt "betrayed" by me. I think after I was done choking on my vomit, I'd tell her it's over.

And she was "hurt" when her love affair ended. Aww... poor thing.

Your wife seems to think that reconciliation involves her puppeting you into pretending to be a happy husband. If she can just change your behavior, then the underlying feelings will follow. She'll leave the Facebook pictures up because they create the fictional picture of a happy family, and the reality is just supposed to somehow turn out the same as the photo.

She's not remorseful nor honest and never has been. File for divorce.


----------



## drifting on

farsidejunky said:


> Does she still spend time with those "friends"?




I think we both full well know she is in contact with these "friends". Why should her friends have to go? The affair is sancheharri's fault anyway.


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## Wolf1974

All cheater speak 101

Did she also tell you that you drove her to this?


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## farsidejunky

drifting on said:


> I think we both full well know she is in contact with these "friends". Why should her friends have to go? The affair is sancheharri's fault anyway.


Further evidence that she has largely been protected from consequences.


----------



## badmemory

sancheharri said:


> "my promise" added to the initial mayhem during the early stages of her "full-confession". she always shouted to me "...you said you will be at my side no matter what...you promised to accept the truth..*.if i'd only known this would be the result of my confession, i wouldn't have told you instead*...i should have kept my mouth shut and dealt with this on my own!..."


Next time she brings this up, here's another suggested response:

Wife, I've never been a betrayed husband before, so you'll have to excuse the roller coaster ride of emotions I've had to endure. Now that I've had some time to think about it, I wish I would have stated that promise differently. 

I should have "promised" you that should you *not* tell me the complete and detailed truth about your cheating, I would not even consider reconciling with you. Consider that corrected.


----------



## bandit.45

sancheharri said:


> guys, one more thing, i've asked her to remove our family picture (at least, only the pictures with me in it) from her facebook account. she refused and caused more arguments. i'm so ashamed to have my face plastered on her fb page. it bothers me that her friends (and affair partners) are looking and laughing at us (me). "...oh, here's the stupid lame husband!...his wife is f*cking other guys and here they are smiling like a blissful family made in heaven!..."
> 
> am i being too paranoid? am i making a mountain out of a molehill? why the hell she doesn't want to remove my pictures?


Make your own Facebook page and start posting the facts.


----------



## Marc878

All you're doing is using manipulative wording which doesn't get you much. You'll either take action or you won't.

*At this time you are living with this.* Looking for someway out without getting out. There isn't one.

You either suck it up and live with it or go your own way.


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## sancheharri

eric1 said:


> You need to concentrate 100% on seeing a lawyer and detaching. The ball is in her court now.


yes, that's what i'm trying to do now - detaching. lawyer? it seems that's the direction this will end up. 



drifting on said:


> Sancheharri
> 
> I say this with respect to you, but if you want to heal and become healthy again, you need to divorce this woman. Have you looked into narcissist or BPD if it already hasn't been mentioned? I'm sorry this person just finds new ways to cause you pain.


i think she can't hurt me further anymore. i'm becoming numb with all the pain she gave me.



Tatsuhiko said:


> I can't imagine how I'd feel if my cheating wife told me she felt "betrayed" by me. I think after I was done choking on my vomit, I'd tell her it's over.
> 
> And she was "hurt" when her love affair ended. Aww... poor thing.
> 
> Your wife seems to think that reconciliation involves her puppeting you into pretending to be a happy husband. If she can just change your behavior, then the underlying feelings will follow. She'll leave the Facebook pictures up because they create the fictional picture of a happy family, and the reality is just supposed to somehow turn out the same as the photo.
> 
> She's not remorseful nor honest and never has been. File for divorce.


yeah, i think this what she's trying to do, she's trying to force her way. she's shocking me into submission. i can see all of this now.


Wolf1974 said:


> All cheater speak 101
> 
> Did she also tell you that you drove her to this?


yes, among other reasons - i am the one who pushed her to be unfaithful.



farsidejunky said:


> Further evidence that she has largely been protected from consequences.


yes, no significant consequence, YET. but KARMA will catch-up with her sooner or later...


----------



## sancheharri

Malaise said:


> You've used the word 'allegedly' a couple times now. Told her sister, etc.
> 
> I gather this is from her mouth and as such you can't believe she told her sister anything positive. She lies to control the narrative. Big surprise.


yes, i'm sure she emphasized the negatives in her marriage to justify her behavior.



GusPolinski said:


> If you're going to continue in marriage (and, FWIW, I wouldn't), anyone and everyone that encouraged her relationship w/ OM needs to go away, and for good.
> 
> Also, has the affair been exposed to OM's wife?





farsidejunky said:


> Does she still spend time with those "friends"?


yes, many times i told her to disengage from her toxic friends, but we all know there's no way of telling if she indeed has detached from those people. i don't think about that issue anymore.


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## farsidejunky

You are enabling this situation to continue by allowing her to dictate the terms of reconciliation.

YOU. 

Evidently you are not yet sick and tired of being sick and tired.


----------



## Decorum

sancheharri said:


> she is afraid of the fact that she is the one responsible for the demise of her marriage, and she doesn't want to bear that guilt till old age. she desparately wants me to stay for a while so she can at least say to herself that "she tried her best" to make-up and save her marriage if it eventually leads to divorce.


Then she can divorce you latter and say it was mutual, that your relationship just ran its course and it was time to end it and move on. That's no reason to stay together.


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## Wolfman1968

Look, Sancheharri, DON'T feel guilty or accept her accusation of being "betrayed" by your assurance she could tell you about her infidelity. Because SHE has not kept up HER part of the deal.

- Has she told you everything up front? NO! You've been trickle-truthed and lied to.

- Has she accepted responsibility for her actions? NO! She keeps trying to blame you for her cheating.

- Has she expressed remorse? NO! She continues to express only regret at the consequences of her behavior--that she has to "pay the piper", as it were.

- Has she tried to do what she needs to do to help you heal? NO! She has continued to manipulate you through this all.

- Has she switched allegiance back to you? NO! She continues to minimize and protect the OM. No evidence of her trying to burn him to the ground, which a truly remorseful person should.

- Has she been completely honest with you? NO! She lies about "it was just sex/ having feelings, etc.".

Look, you could even SAY to her that your feelings are NOT the consequence of her revealing her betrayal, but rather HOW she has been acting/treating you/lacking in TRUE remorse...and you would be telling the truth. I'll bet that if she showed the true remorse that the wayward wives who post here have shown, you might even entertain the thought of reconciliation. But certainly not in this situation. 

So, no, I don't even think your assurance that she could tell you was dishonest, because the bulk of your reactions, I believe, are MORE a result of the lack of true remorse and willingness to do ANYTHING to help you heal. 

So don't let her manipulate you with that false narrative.


----------



## Wolf1974

farsidejunky said:


> You are enabling this situation to continue by allowing her to dictate the terms of reconciliation.
> 
> YOU.
> 
> Evidently you are not yet sick and tired of being sick and tired.


Yep the crap isn't high enough yet. This is just sad


----------



## eric1

Seeing a lawyer is 'the direction that this is headed'.

You need to see one to fully understand your rights and if you are protected. There is a nonzero chance that this will lead to divorce.

And in other benefits if there is any chance of her deciding down the path of remorse (which still doesn't mean you'd need to accept that) she needs to change course. Perhaps the shock of you serving her papers would help serve that purpose.


----------



## sancheharri

farsidejunky said:


> You are enabling this situation to continue by allowing her to dictate the terms of reconciliation.
> 
> YOU.
> 
> Evidently you are not yet sick and tired of being sick and tired.


yes, i'm now aware of this. i'm guilty of enabling her to muddle-up the issues that got me so confused. i was literally paralyzed physically and mentally. but thanks to all of you the "spell" is now broken and i'm taking my first step forward. i know it's going to be an uphill personal battle, it's going to be hard, but I CAN DO THIS. step by step, i can do this...



Decorum said:


> Then she can divorce you latter and say it was mutual, that your relationship just ran its course and it was time to end it and move on. That's no reason to stay together.


 yes, i can see her game. this is her PRIDE...so she can tell herself and her friends in the end that I AM ACTUALLY THE ONE WHO CAUSED THE MARRIAGE NOT TO WORK OUT because SHE DID EVERYTHING SHE CAN TO SAVE IT. 



Wolfman1968 said:


> Look, Sancheharri, DON'T feel guilty or accept her accusation of being "betrayed" by your assurance she could tell you about her infidelity. Because SHE has not kept up HER part of the deal.
> 
> - Has she told you everything up front? NO! You've been trickle-truthed and lied to.
> 
> - Has she accepted responsibility for her actions? NO! She keeps trying to blame you for her cheating.
> 
> - Has she expressed remorse? NO! She continues to express only regret at the consequences of her behavior--that she has to "pay the piper", as it were.
> 
> - Has she tried to do what she needs to do to help you heal? NO! She has continued to manipulate you through this all.
> 
> - Has she switched allegiance back to you? NO! She continues to minimize and protect the OM. No evidence of her trying to burn him to the ground, which a truly remorseful person should.
> 
> - Has she been completely honest with you? NO! She lies about "it was just sex/ having feelings, etc.".
> 
> Look, you could even SAY to her that your feelings are NOT the consequence of her revealing her betrayal, but rather HOW she has been acting/treating you/lacking in TRUE remorse...and you would be telling the truth. I'll bet that if she showed the true remorse that the wayward wives who post here have shown, you might even entertain the thought of reconciliation. But certainly not in this situation.
> 
> So, no, I don't even think your assurance that she could tell you was dishonest, because the bulk of your reactions, I believe, are MORE a result of the lack of true remorse and willingness to do ANYTHING to help you heal.
> 
> So don't let her manipulate you with that false narrative.


yes, i felt more pain and anguish with the way she behaved after her confession. i was desperately looking for something to hang-on to, any reason at all that our mariage can still be saved.

but i can see through it all now. it's time to make the first step forward - DETACH, RECOVER MY HEALTH, GATHER MY WITS, and STAND MY GROUND.



Wolf1974 said:


> Yep the crap isn't high enough yet. This is just sad


yes, it's really sad at this point. but i will take charge of my own life again, with or withour her. i know there will be major bumps ahead but i will reclaim my happiness and personal well-being.


----------



## Andy1001

sancheharri said:


> yes, i'm now aware of this. i'm guilty of enabling her to muddle-up the issues that got me so confused. i was literally paralyzed physically and mentally. but thanks to all of you the "spell" is now broken and i'm taking my first step forward. i know it's going to be an uphill personal battle, it's going to be hard, but I CAN DO THIS. step by step, i can do this...
> 
> yes, i can see her game. this is her PRIDE...so she can tell herself and her friends in the end that I AM ACTUALLY THE ONE WHO CAUSED THE MARRIAGE NOT TO WORK OUT because SHE DID EVERYTHING SHE CAN TO SAVE IT.
> 
> 
> yes, i felt more pain and anguish with the way she behaved after her confession. i was desperately looking for something to hang-on to, any reason at all that our mariage can still be saved.
> 
> but i can see through it all now. it's time to make the first step forward - DETACH, RECOVER MY HEALTH, GATHER MY WITS, and STAND MY GROUND.
> 
> 
> yes, it's really sad at this point. but i will take charge of my own life again, with or withour her. i know there will be major bumps ahead but i will reclaim my happiness and personal well-being.


All I see are more meaningless platitudes about what you "think" you should be doing.How she can't hurt you anymore,how you have had enough,etc.Before you come back and post again why don't you actually do something.You have been told time after time what is going to happen but you still come out with meaningless ultimations,empty threats,lines drawn in the sand.I don't want to seem ambivalent about your situation but your wife treats you like **** and you do nothing,nada,zilch.She doesn't just cross your lines in the sand she spits on them as she is going by and your response is to draw another line.You keep agreeing with the advice you are being given well,try taking some of it.


----------



## sancheharri

Andy1001 said:


> All I see are more meaningless platitudes about what you "think" you should be doing.How she can't hurt you anymore,how you have had enough,etc.Before you come back and post again why don't you actually do something.You have been told time after time what is going to happen but you still come out with meaningless ultimations,empty threats,lines drawn in the sand.I don't want to seem ambivalent about your situation but your wife treats you like **** and you do nothing,nada,zilch.She doesn't just cross your lines in the sand she spits on them as she is going by and your response is to draw another line.You keep agreeing with the advice you are being given well,try taking some of it.


i know all of you mean well. i may be slow to act, it may seem nothing is happening. but i know something has changed within me. i come back here to read and think about your replies. i read other threads in this forum, and i learned a lot. 

foremost, i found answers to my questions. those questions in my mind froze me to inaction. i searched for answers until i found this forum. it has become a lifeline for me at this point in time. it is my outlet for the things that bothered me with this affair. reading and posting in this forum somewhat gave me the push to act. i guess i needed the advice to get out from paralysis. i'm sorry if pouring out my pent-up emotions has become annoying.

i am actually in the process of packing my stuff and will move out (at least, temporarily). i can't successfully detach if i stay with her. she doesn't know what i'm doing, she'll get the surprise when she finds out i moved in with my brother. it's painful as i am doing this, but i know i have to. 

i hope i'm still welcome to come back here and ask for advice if something comes up...


----------



## SunCMars

sancheharri said:


> i hope i'm still welcome to come back here and ask for advice if something comes up...


Welcome?

Will come, won't you?
......................................................................................................................................
Your action cannon misfired. The primer in the shell fizzled.......out.

Here's what happened my friend:

Posters here gave you directions, coordinates, if you will.

They told you what, where, who, when.

They rolled Big Bertha up to your door.

They put the monster shell casing in your open arms.

They gave you the fuse to insert in it prior to firing. Problem was, your tears wet the fuse. It burned awhile and fizzled out.

I know armaments. I put my ear to that cannon. I could still hear it cooking.

IT WILL GO OFF ! 

As soon as you make the move to your brothers and get the divorce papers started.

Me? I could care less WHEN the enemy gets blown to smithereens as long as it happens.

Your day is coming...when you open your eyes, open your heart and get up of the ground and re-pull the lanyard on that cannon for ****s and giggles.


----------



## SunCMars

@sancheharri?

Basque?

Buddhist Stone Complex?

Live the name. You own the name.

Wear your Avatar with strength and pride, Eh?


----------



## Andy1001

sancheharri said:


> i know all of you mean well. i may be slow to act, it may seem nothing is happening. but i know something has changed within me. i come back here to read and think about your replies. i read other threads in this forum, and i learned a lot.
> 
> foremost, i found answers to my questions. those questions in my mind froze me to inaction. i searched for answers until i found this forum. it has become a lifeline for me at this point in time. it is my outlet for the things that bothered me with this affair. reading and posting in this forum somewhat gave me the push to act. i guess i needed the advice to get out from paralysis. i'm sorry if pouring out my pent-up emotions has become annoying.
> 
> i am actually in the process of packing my stuff and will move out (at least, temporarily). i can't successfully detach if i stay with her. she doesn't know what i'm doing, she'll get the surprise when she finds out i moved in with my brother. it's painful as i am doing this, but i know i have to.
> 
> i hope i'm still welcome to come back here and ask for advice if something comes up...


I'm really glad that you have put your plan into action and I wish you all the luck in the world.
I really mean that.


----------



## Decorum

sancheharri said:


> i know all of you mean well. i may be slow to act, it may seem nothing is happening. but i know something has changed within me. i come back here to read and think about your replies. i read other threads in this forum, and i learned a lot.
> 
> foremost, i found answers to my questions. those questions in my mind froze me to inaction. i searched for answers until i found this forum. it has become a lifeline for me at this point in time. it is my outlet for the things that bothered me with this affair. reading and posting in this forum somewhat gave me the push to act. i guess i needed the advice to get out from paralysis. i'm sorry if pouring out my pent-up emotions has become annoying.
> 
> i am actually in the process of packing my stuff and will move out (at least, temporarily). i can't successfully detach if i stay with her. she doesn't know what i'm doing, she'll get the surprise when she finds out i moved in with my brother. it's painful as i am doing this, but i know i have to.
> 
> i hope i'm still welcome to come back here and ask for advice if something comes up...


Yes please don't stop seeking in help here. I think you are waking up. Once you let that genie out of the bottle it doesn't go back in.

You are well with the norm of posters here. We are just trying to keep you moving in the right direction. we call them 2x4's or tough love. Stay the course!!!


----------



## drifting on

sancheharri said:


> i know all of you mean well. i may be slow to act, it may seem nothing is happening. but i know something has changed within me. i come back here to read and think about your replies. i read other threads in this forum, and i learned a lot.
> 
> foremost, i found answers to my questions. those questions in my mind froze me to inaction. i searched for answers until i found this forum. it has become a lifeline for me at this point in time. it is my outlet for the things that bothered me with this affair. reading and posting in this forum somewhat gave me the push to act. i guess i needed the advice to get out from paralysis. i'm sorry if pouring out my pent-up emotions has become annoying.
> 
> i am actually in the process of packing my stuff and will move out (at least, temporarily). i can't successfully detach if i stay with her. she doesn't know what i'm doing, she'll get the surprise when she finds out i moved in with my brother. it's painful as i am doing this, but i know i have to.
> 
> i hope i'm still welcome to come back here and ask for advice if something comes up...




Sancheharri

In many ways you remind me of myself in some ways, I don't know if that's good or bad. I understand, as well as others here, the pain, shock, and disbelief you are feeling. This will usually lead one to either action or inaction, and that is completely normal. Do not dwell on how you reacted initially, instead begin to focus on just you, your healing. That is the most important action you can take at this time, all else will fall into place as you begin to get healthy. Don't worry or even think of any promises or statements you have made previously, in fact tell your wife you need to know all so you can get healthy and to know what you are forgiving. 

You being destroyed at this time is normal, get therapy to begin to heal and repair yourself. Interact with your kids as much as possible, they will need a parent through this. When you get healthier you can begin to make decisions, decisions that will build the new healthier you. Accept what has happened, accept that your marriage has died, mourn for the loss of your marriage. When I say to accept what has happened, I'm not saying to throw a party, I'm saying that once you accept what happened is when you can begin to heal. I accepted what happened to me, begrudgingly, but I accepted it nonetheless. I had to so I could heal, grow as a person, and ultimately to get healthy. You're not accepting the affair but rather that the affair happened.

Do not allow your wife to blame shift the affair to you, that is hers to own fully. At any time your wife could have told you she was going to begin dating, she didn't. Your wife could have separated with you or divorced you at any time, she didn't. So her affair is her choice, one she made without consulting you, then lied about because she knew she was wrong. What your wife has difficulty with now is that she is too shallow to own her own ****. That is not a fault in you in any way, that is her flaw she needs to fix of the many flaws she has. 

Will you be welcome here? Of course you will. This is your place to listen to others, to help others, to converse with others that KNOW how you feel. You can take the advice or ignore it, it's all your choice. If you find that TAM is helpful, that's great, it all comes down to how you feel. If TAM and the posters here have helped you to move forward, then do so, at your own pace. You are not to move any faster then your own pace. I found TAM to be cathartic and pushing me forward on many occasions. I have then since developed friendships with many posters here. Posters that have supported and advised as well as posters who had no clue they helped me, and posters who have used 2X4's when they were warranted. 

I wish you the best of luck in moving forward in your life. I pray that God blesses you with His Healing Hand.


----------



## Marc878

sancheharri said:


> yes, i'm now aware of this. i'm guilty of enabling her to muddle-up the issues that got me so confused. i was literally paralyzed physically and mentally. but thanks to all of you the "spell" is now broken and i'm taking my first step forward. i know it's going to be an uphill personal battle, it's going to be hard, but I CAN DO THIS. step by step, i can do this...
> 
> yes, i can see her game. this is her PRIDE...so she can tell herself and her friends in the end that I AM ACTUALLY THE ONE WHO CAUSED THE MARRIAGE NOT TO WORK OUT because SHE DID EVERYTHING SHE CAN TO SAVE IT.
> 
> 
> *yes, i felt more pain and anguish with the way she behaved after her confession. i was desperately looking for something to hang-on to, any reason at all that our mariage can still be saved.*
> 
> You still are to some extent. The only way this would work is if she was doing what you are. I don't think you grasp it yet.
> 
> but i can see through it all now. it's time to make the first step forward - DETACH, RECOVER MY HEALTH, GATHER MY WITS, and STAND MY GROUND.
> 
> 
> yes, it's really sad at this point. but i will take charge of my own life again, with or withour her. i know there will be major bumps ahead but i will reclaim my happiness and personal well-being.


----------



## eric1

You need to speak to a lawyer to protect yourself. This includes the legally material impact of you moving out, even temporarily. 

You need to speak with a lawyer.


----------



## Be smart

How are you my Friend ? 

I think you made a mistake moving out from your Home. It is your Home and your Children live there. If things go worse your wife could say you left her and your Children. You have to be smart about this one,trust me.

At this point you have lot of problems so you need to solve them one by one. 

Some things to do : 

1. You really need to get DNA test. You love your little Champion I can understand it,but demanding DNA test will show your wife how little you trust her. You dont have to see results.He is still your son and always will be. He is 4,right ? 
What makes me worry is that your Wife went so deep with Affair so everything is possible. She belived he was the One,she went public with him,brag about him to Family and Friends. So be careful my friend. 
2. STD test
3. Friends who supported her Affair have to go. Leave them behind you. They are not your Friends. 

Her whole Family is toxic. I dont have a good word for them. Her Sister knew about Affair and she never told you about it.
Her Father is a stupid man saying those things to you. Put him in his place. Dont let him hurt you,he is not a good man.

You need to expose her Affair because she is making you a bad guy here. She is making herself like a victim. Just see reaction from her Parents!

It is up to you how you want to deal with Cheating for a long time,lying for years... She is not remorseful and blames you for destroying your Family. She really is a stupid woman or she belives you are a stupid man,sorry. 

I would recommend some individual counseling for you. MC will work only if she comes clean and stops lying. 

Stay strong my Friend.


----------



## sancheharri

i finally did it... i'm staying with my bro for a couple of days now. i feel uneasy and sad, yet relieved. yes, i wasn't able to control myself and cried like a child when i saw my son innocently waving at me as i was going out the door. he had no idea what's going on. geez, i didn't expect to hurt like this...somehow i'm second guessing if i did the right move of creating space between us, but at the same time i feel like i abandoned my young kid.

wife is constantly calling to ask how i'm doing. she's doing her best to be calm but i can sense the tension in her voice. she's insisting to come over but i keep on telling her not to. it's just a matter of time before this boils over again. after a short period of peace and quiet, i'm starting to feel stressed again.

guys, i forgot mention to you one significant issue...sex. since the day of her "full-confession", we still have sex somewhat regularly. at first, it was passionate and it was really good. we never had that for quite sometime. i didn't understand why i felt and behaved that way. i read about "hysterical bonding", and that probably explains it. but after a while, the intensity and passion died down. it was replaced by disgust and resentment. i tried many times to stop having sex with her, from telling her calmly how i feel, to outright rejecting her. but she was insistent to the point of becoming violent. at one time, i had scratches all over because she "forced" her way. i know it sounds ridiculous, but i can say i was "raped" at one point. it was one of the most harrowing experience i had. i had to "give in" just to avoid the scandalous cries and screaming. i just played with my imagination and tried to "enjoy" the physical pleasure that comes with sex.

i already frankly told her several times that i want to stop it. i am just having sex with her not as a husband but as a "friend" (i can't believe i'm having a FWB)...i don't feel the love i used to have for her. i feel like i'm just using and degrading her further (just like what her lover did to her). but she just nods her head and says she wants to.

of course, i enjoy the physical aspect of having sex with her, but that's it. i don't feel guilt anymore for using her...i just see her as a sexual outlet.

do i play along and just continue to "enjoy the physical pleasures" until it stops?...i mean i'm not losing anything anyway because i don't feel anything for her anymore. 

she also insists that whenever she whispers "...i love you..." after sex that i also say "...i love you, too..." in return. i'm not affectionate to her anymore. i just treat her as a friend - literally. she just doesn't get it or she's in huge denial?


----------



## sancheharri

Be smart said:


> How are you my Friend ?
> 
> I think you made a mistake moving out from your Home. It is your Home and your Children live there. If things go worse your wife could say you left her and your Children. You have to be smart about this one,trust me.
> 
> At this point you have lot of problems so you need to solve them one by one.
> 
> Some things to do :
> 
> 1. You really need to get DNA test. You love your little Champion I can understand it,but demanding DNA test will show your wife how little you trust her. You dont have to see results.He is still your son and always will be. He is 4,right ?
> What makes me worry is that your Wife went so deep with Affair so everything is possible. She belived he was the One,she went public with him,brag about him to Family and Friends. So be careful my friend.
> 2. STD test
> 3. Friends who supported her Affair have to go. Leave them behind you. They are not your Friends.
> 
> Her whole Family is toxic. I dont have a good word for them. Her Sister knew about Affair and she never told you about it.
> Her Father is a stupid man saying those things to you. Put him in his place. Dont let him hurt you,he is not a good man.
> 
> You need to expose her Affair because she is making you a bad guy here. She is making herself like a victim. Just see reaction from her Parents!
> 
> It is up to you how you want to deal with Cheating for a long time,lying for years... She is not remorseful and blames you for destroying your Family. She really is a stupid woman or she belives you are a stupid man,sorry.
> 
> I would recommend some individual counseling for you. MC will work only if she comes clean and stops lying.
> 
> Stay strong my Friend.


thank you for the advice. 

yeah, it entered my mind that it's also my house. this is one of the issues that bothers me. i know most of you say to get a lawyer and serve divorce papers. personally, i want to settle matters peacefully. i've heard horror stories about couples undergoing divorce proceedings that severely affected their children. i'm trying to avoid that as much as possible. i want us to be civil and in friendly terms for the sake of my young kid. i want to exhaust all possible means to settle our issues before i force her with divorce papers.

it's strange to be sneaking-in my own place just to see my kid. i don't know how long i can pretend that i'm strong enough not to see my child everyday...


----------



## Be smart

sancheharri said:


> i mean i'm not losing anything anyway because i don't feel anything for her anymore.


You can say that again but you still love her and you care for your Marriage. I am not saying this is a bad thing. It really shows me what kind of man you really are. I only wish your Wife sees the same and maybe tries harder for you. 

Having sex with her is normal,she is still your Wife so enjoy it . I will only say to be careful because they sometimes use sex as a weapon. Maybe this is her way to say she is sorry or she is trying to connect with you. On other hand maybe she is trying to play with your emotions. Only she knew the real answer. 

A lot of us told you to Divorce her because she never took the full blame for her actions. Not to mention her behaviour with Friends,Colleagues,Family and all lies she told you. 

If she starts acting like a good wife and do the right things THEN you can think about Reconciliation. 

Stay strong my Friend.


----------



## eric1

I disagree. Sex is natures way of creating emotional bond. He needs to disengage from her so that he can make a decision based on sound logic

Moving out is a good way to disengage, but you really do need to talk to a lawyer


----------



## Decorum

Sancheharri,

I think someone told her, or she read, that the longer you go without sex to make\keep the bond after infidelity, the more you will detach, and the more likely it is that this will end in divorce.

She is desperately trying to keep the odds in her favor. Which in and of itself is not a bad thing. It depends on intention and remorse.


----------



## Todd Haberdasher

On the other hand, going without sex for a long time can make a man desperate and it is way less work to have sex with an existing partner than to put yourself out there and risk it with someone new. Clearly she hasn't thought of that lol.


----------



## goingsolo12

sancheharri said:


> i finally did it... i'm staying with my bro for a couple of days now. i feel uneasy and sad, yet relieved. yes, i wasn't able to control myself and cried like a child when i saw my son innocently waving at me as i was going out the door. he had no idea what's going on. geez, i didn't expect to hurt like this...somehow i'm second guessing if i did the right move of creating space between us, but at the same time i feel like i abandoned my young kid.
> 
> wife is constantly calling to ask how i'm doing. she's doing her best to be calm but i can sense the tension in her voice. she's insisting to come over but i keep on telling her not to. it's just a matter of time before this boils over again. after a short period of peace and quiet, i'm starting to feel stressed again.
> 
> guys, i forgot mention to you one significant issue...sex. since the day of her "full-confession", we still have sex somewhat regularly. at first, it was passionate and it was really good. we never had that for quite sometime. i didn't understand why i felt and behaved that way. i read about "hysterical bonding", and that probably explains it. but after a while, the intensity and passion died down. it was replaced by disgust and resentment. i tried many times to stop having sex with her, from telling her calmly how i feel, to outright rejecting her. but she was insistent to the point of becoming violent. at one time, i had scratches all over because she "forced" her way. i know it sounds ridiculous, but i can say i was "raped" at one point. it was one of the most harrowing experience i had. i had to "give in" just to avoid the scandalous cries and screaming. i just played with my imagination and tried to "enjoy" the physical pleasure that comes with sex.
> 
> i already frankly told her several times that i want to stop it. i am just having sex with her not as a husband but as a "friend" (i can't believe i'm having a FWB)...i don't feel the love i used to have for her. i feel like i'm just using and degrading her further (just like what her lover did to her). but she just nods her head and says she wants to.
> 
> of course, i enjoy the physical aspect of having sex with her, but that's it. i don't feel guilt anymore for using her...i just see her as a sexual outlet.
> 
> do i play along and just continue to "enjoy the physical pleasures" until it stops?...i mean i'm not losing anything anyway because i don't feel anything for her anymore.
> 
> she also insists that whenever she whispers "...i love you..." after sex that i also say "...i love you, too..." in return. i'm not affectionate to her anymore. i just treat her as a friend - literally. she just doesn't get it or she's in huge denial?


Do not engage in any sort of physical intimacy with her, not even a hug. If you do that she would have no reason to change, she would assume that she still has you wrapped around her fingers and can use sex to pull you back in to the mess she has created. She will use sex as a weapon, as a tool to manipulate you, when you will have sex with her she would try to establish an emotional bond with you making it harder for you to detach. Its not easy in fact next to impossible to have sex with her without having emotions, she has been your wife for so long, you will have problems detaching if you continue the physical intimacy, i repeat again- not even a hug, just a polite smile would do.

Also don't have sex with her for your own emotional safety, from your posts I feel you still have trouble detaching and physical intimacy would make it even harder. 

There is a third reason why you should not have sex with her or even hug her, to make her aware of the fact that you can survive without her. Right now your wife thinks your moving out is a temporary thing and you are bound to come back and she really has no reason to change herself because she would have no consequences for her actions. You have to make the consequences evident for her, for a woman that usually happens when the man who loves her refuses to touch her, that would indeed shock her. This would give you some power over the whole dynamic, think about it.

All the best


----------



## Decorum

You are still married to her, if you want to have sex with her do it.

If you feel it will make you a doormat don't.

Tell her it's no strings attached sex if you want to.

Its your call to stay or go.


----------



## sancheharri

Be smart said:


> You can say that again but you still love her and you care for your Marriage. I am not saying this is a bad thing. It really shows me what kind of man you really are. I only wish your Wife sees the same and maybe tries harder for you.
> 
> Having sex with her is normal,she is still your Wife so enjoy it . I will only say to be careful because they sometimes use sex as a weapon. Maybe this is her way to say she is sorry or she is trying to connect with you. On other hand maybe she is trying to play with your emotions. Only she knew the real answer.
> 
> A lot of us told you to Divorce her because she never took the full blame for her actions. Not to mention her behaviour with Friends,Colleagues,Family and all lies she told you.
> 
> If she starts acting like a good wife and do the right things THEN you can think about Reconciliation.
> 
> Stay strong my Friend.


yeah, during the "hysterical sex" stage i did feel the love, anger, anguish, physical pleasure, mind-movies all mixed-up. i was crying inside wanting to shout-out and choke the hell out of her, but at the same time i felt the old bond and connection i had for her. it was crazy! and you know what the crazier part is?....she was crying when we had our first "hysterical sex". 

but now, all i feel is the physical pleasure. yes, i do feel good and connected somehow whenever we had sex, perhaps there's still some love left in me somewhere. but i'm finding it harder and harder to feel that love as days went by. 

yeah, i think the way we handled things after "d-day" and how it unfolded between us extiguished whatever love that's left in me. now i feel BLANK.




eric1 said:


> I disagree. Sex is natures way of creating emotional bond. He needs to disengage from her so that he can make a decision based on sound logic
> 
> Moving out is a good way to disengage, but you really do need to talk to a lawyer


 yes, i was aware of this. i was afraid i might fall into her "trap" that's why i attempted to stop it. but then i just thought to myself "...ok, if you want sex, i'll give it to you. but i'm just going to use you. i know what you did and what kind of a woman you are. i have no respect for you..." somehow this line of thinking worked for me. i just bang her and "enjoy" myself.



Decorum said:


> Sancheharri,
> 
> I think someone told her, or she read, that the longer you go without sex to make\keep the bond after infidelity, the more you will detach, and the more likely it is that this will end in divorce.
> 
> She is desperately trying to keep the odds in her favor. Which in and of itself is not a bad thing. It depends on intention and remorse.


yes, i also think she's using sex to cling-on to whatever hope she has to keep me from leaving for good. but i can tell you it's not working on me. the opposite is happening...the memories of the love i once felt for her is fading more and more everyday.



Todd Haberdasher said:


> On the other hand, going without sex for a long time can make a man desperate and it is way less work to have sex with an existing partner than to put yourself out there and risk it with someone new. Clearly she hasn't thought of that lol.


yup, i'm a man...and i need sex. 



goingsolo12 said:


> Do not engage in any sort of physical intimacy with her, not even a hug. If you do that she would have no reason to change, she would assume that she still has you wrapped around her fingers and can use sex to pull you back in to the mess she has created. She will use sex as a weapon, as a tool to manipulate you, when you will have sex with her she would try to establish an emotional bond with you making it harder for you to detach. Its not easy in fact next to impossible to have sex with her without having emotions, she has been your wife for so long, you will have problems detaching if you continue the physical intimacy, i repeat again- not even a hug, just a polite smile would do.
> 
> Also don't have sex with her for your own emotional safety, from your posts I feel you still have trouble detaching and physical intimacy would make it even harder.
> 
> There is a third reason why you should not have sex with her or even hug her, to make her aware of the fact that you can survive without her. Right now your wife thinks your moving out is a temporary thing and you are bound to come back and she really has no reason to change herself because she would have no consequences for her actions. You have to make the consequences evident for her, for a woman that usually happens when the man who loves her refuses to touch her, that would indeed shock her. This would give you some power over the whole dynamic, think about it.
> 
> All the best


thanks for the advice. but i have given-up the hope that she'll change. i realized NOBODY CAN CHANGE ANYBODY. sex or no sex, change would have to come from within her. deep and meaningful changes. i guess one of the reasons i had a hard time moving-out is because at the back of my mind, things will change....she will TRULY change. but i don't see it happening at this point. IT WAS SO PAINFUL that whatever hope and love i had for her had vanished. i guess the "man" in me finally prevailed. i was having sex with her just for sex, and at last i was able to move out.


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## goingsolo12

Its hard letting go of something that was a part of your life for such a long time, I applaud your strength sancheharri. You made the right decision in my opinion, if you hadn't moved out and decided to let go of her there would have always been an imbalance in your marriage and life.Your wife thought she could get away with murder, the murder of your vows to be precise. Your children will learn from this, they will see that their father had the spine to fight back against abuse, their father refused to take **** from anyone. Kids learn a lot from watching their parents react in difficult situations, most of our coping mechanism are a result of watching our parents deal with stress.

Things are going to get better soon, there would be some dark days ahead but you will survive and lead a happier life sancheharri. Wishing you all the strength. Your time is just starting and it only gets better from here.

All the best.


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## eric1

sancheharri said:


> yeah, during the "hysterical sex" stage i did feel the love, anger, anguish, physical pleasure, mind-movies all mixed-up. i was crying inside wanting to shout-out and choke the hell out of her, but at the same time i felt the old bond and connection i had for her. it was crazy! and you know what the crazier part is?....she was crying when we had our first "hysterical sex".
> 
> but now, all i feel is the physical pleasure. yes, i do feel good and connected somehow whenever we had sex, perhaps there's still some love left in me somewhere. but i'm finding it harder and harder to feel that love as days went by.
> 
> yeah, i think the way we handled things after "d-day" and how it unfolded between us extiguished whatever love that's left in me. now i feel BLANK.
> 
> 
> yes, i was aware of this. i was afraid i might fall into her "trap" that's why i attempted to stop it. but then i just thought to myself "...ok, if you want sex, i'll give it to you. but i'm just going to use you. i know what you did and what kind of a woman you are. i have no respect for you..." somehow this line of thinking worked for me. i just bang her and "enjoy" myself.
> 
> yes, i also think she's using sex to cling-on to whatever hope she has to keep me from leaving for good. but i can tell you it's not working on me. the opposite is happening...the memories of the love i once felt for her is fading more and more everyday.
> 
> yup, i'm a man...and i need sex.
> 
> thanks for the advice. but i have given-up the hope that she'll change.* i realized NOBODY CAN CHANGE ANYBODY. sex or no sex, change would have to come from within her. deep and meaningful changes. i guess one of the reasons i had a hard time moving-out is because at the back of my mind, things will change....she will TRULY change. but i don't see it happening at this point.* IT WAS SO PAINFUL that whatever hope and love i had for her had vanished. i guess the "man" in me finally prevailed. i was having sex with her just for sex, and at last i was able to move out.


You're spot on about this. And even if you did "see it happening" you could safely move on and then force her to "REALLY make you see it happening". 

Put it this way, disengagement at this point is really the only thing to do because there is literally nothing else that you can do.


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## DEMI6

zookeeper said:


> Are there answers to these questions that would somehow change what she did and the hurt is caused you? I doubt it. You are staring down a rabbit hole that (in most cases) only gets deeper and more convoluted the further you go.
> 
> You should be asking yourself some questions right now. Thing like:
> 
> - What do I want from life?
> - How important is trust in my marriage?
> - Am I the kind of person that can ever move past such betrayal or will it haunt me for the rest of my life? Will I be triggered with doubt and panic every time she is late coming home or her phone rings at an odd hour? Will I imagine her with the other man when we have sex? Etc.
> - Do my wife and I really have compatible values if she is capable of such selfishness and callous indifference?
> - Are my feelings for her based upon her true self or an illusion?
> 
> You get the idea. For me, I can't imagine any response to infidelity short of immediate and permanent ending of the relationship. I might be able to forgive a cheater in time, but I would not sacrifice my own quality of life by subjecting myself to the never-ending doubt and anxiety. Once someone is proven to be a liar and untrustworthy, how would I ever completely trust them again? That's no life for me.
> 
> There are some people that claim to be able to repair the trust and salvage the relationship. Maybe you are one of them. Maybe not. This is the most important thing you need to ponder and be brutally honest with yourself. You'll never know the truth about her and what she did. You can know the truth about yourself.
> 
> Good luck in this unfortunate journey.


Love thisss!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk


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## theDrifter

It seems you have realistically assessed all of the issues you are facing and made the decision you judge to be the best for you. That's the thing that I wish for all BH's. When you do what's best for you the healing begins. You have a great chance to find peace, you will be a better father - your WW will be better off in the the long run as well. Congratulations!


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## jlg07

Hi @sancheharri, just checking in -- how are you doing? have you been able to start detaching from your wife? Have you started doing the 180 yet???


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## sancheharri

hi jlg07, thank you for asking. it has been an emotional roller-coaster for me since i moved-in with my brother. it's hard, but i'm generally okay. as much as i try to avoid re-hashing and re-thinking about everything (especially before sleeping at night), i oftentimes inflict pain on myself by thinking about it. sometimes i feel hopeless that this will never go, but when i think about it, many went through the same thing i'm going through now....and they were able to overcome the challenge. my time to overcome this will come. i just have to fight and be strong as a man. if others did it, so am i.

somehow, i think my WW accepted i need the "space". she's not insisting anymore for me to come back. we just talk over the phone and whenever i see the kids. we talk mostly about them. 

do i worry that she's playing the field again?...yes, it entered my mind but i don't dwell on that thought anymore. my focus is on the children and taking care of my emotional and physical well-being.

i've been re-connecting with my family and old friends, going on road trips, and keeping myself busy. and it's effective to some extent. it's during the night at bed time that i'm having trouble.

some of my buddies are urging me to go out and have some "friendly dates" with the opposite sex. it may help in keeping my mind pre-occupied, but i feel i'm not ready yet for that. what do you guys think?

sometimes i find myself asking - is this it?...years of marriage ending-up to nothing? a huge part of my life "wasted" just like that...long years that can never be taken back...years that could have been spent with someone better...lots and lots of "what if's". reading new and old threads in this forum makes me ask - "WHEN WILL PEOPLE LEARN NOT TO DESTROY THEIR LIVES and OTHER PEOPLE'S LIVES as well?..."

i'm sorry if i'm ranting...but that's how it is with me right now. 

keep up the good work, guys...i'm sure a lot of troubled lives are being helped in this forum.


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## GusPolinski

What's the goal of the separation? Divorce?

Have you filed any papers?


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## RWB

sancheharri said:


> sometimes i find myself asking - is this it?...*years of marriage ending-up to nothing? a huge part of my life "wasted" just like that...long years that can never be taken back...*years that could have been spent with someone better...lots and lots of "what if's".


Not just "wasted"... Stolen.

Like some sick Truman Show false reality where lies have replaced truth. When you have been cheated on for years, you wonder "if" anything was real or just some cheap façade to hide the deceit. 

Been there. Sanch, time to get out of PARK and move on... time to make new memories.


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## farsidejunky

GusPolinski said:


> What's the goal of the separation? Divorce?
> 
> Have you filed any papers?


This.

Brother, this is limbo.

If you want to heal...if you want to stop wasting even more of your precious, finite time...sever the ties.


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## turnera

I'm a big believer that when we marry the first time, it's often with the wrong person. We're not mature enough, we haven't experienced enough, we think with our other brain...IMO the only benefit out of those marriages are the wonderful kids. And once we are free of that toxic, caustic marriage, we are now ready to go out and experience REAL life the RIGHT way and meet BETTER people. You're now smarter, better off, wiser, and you'll have learned how to spot users and selfish people and keep them at bay.

So look forward to your new future. You're gonna be fine. Be the best dad you can be, let them see ONE parent with dignity, grace, and integrity, so that they can grow up to emulate YOU, not her.

You'll be fine. Get the divorce finalized.


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## jlg07

@sancheharri, just checking in again -- please keep reporting what's going on -- many here can help!


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## sancheharri

GusPolinski said:


> What's the goal of the separation? Divorce?
> 
> Have you filed any papers?


the short-term purpose of my separation is to have some "breathing-room or space" to recover and stabilize my personal well-being. at this point, i see divorce on the horizon. i haven't filed any papers yet. i just want to enjoy and do the things i used to do. perhaps i'm "escaping" from those issues, but i know the time will come when i have to face it and ultimately file the papers. at the moment - i don't care about her or the marriage...it's all about myself and my children.



RWB said:


> Not just "wasted"... Stolen.
> 
> Like some sick Truman Show false reality where lies have replaced truth. When you have been cheated on for years, you wonder "if" anything was real or just some cheap façade to hide the deceit.
> 
> Been there. Sanch, time to get out of PARK and move on... time to make new memories.


yes, very true. i really don't know which memories were true or were just lies. infidelity in relationships destroy everything. i think there is no such thing as "repairing or saving" a marriage wrecked by cheating. you really have to start from scratch...literally. (if you still want to)



farsidejunky said:


> This.
> 
> Brother, this is limbo.
> 
> If you want to heal...if you want to stop wasting even more of your precious, finite time...sever the ties.


it may seem i'm in a "limbo". i thought about it, too. but i'm not in the "middle" anymore. i think i already made the steps toward moving-on by moving-out and letting-go. i don't see myself "growing old with her" anymore. 



turnera said:


> I'm a big believer that when we marry the first time, it's often with the wrong person. We're not mature enough, we haven't experienced enough, we think with our other brain...IMO the only benefit out of those marriages are the wonderful kids. And once we are free of that toxic, caustic marriage, we are now ready to go out and experience REAL life the RIGHT way and meet BETTER people. You're now smarter, better off, wiser, and you'll have learned how to spot users and selfish people and keep them at bay.
> 
> So look forward to your new future. You're gonna be fine. Be the best dad you can be, let them see ONE parent with dignity, grace, and integrity, so that they can grow up to emulate YOU, not her.
> 
> You'll be fine. Get the divorce finalized.


there was one conversation we had where she said "...it's sad that just when we have painfully learned from our mistakes and are now truly mature about these matters that other people (new partners) will benefit and enjoy from our pain and tears..."

i guess that's one of life's harsh reallities.



jlg07 said:


> @sancheharri, just checking in again -- please keep reporting what's going on -- many here can help!


thanks, jlg07. whatever it is i'm doing, it's helping me recover. the pain i feel is getting lesser by the day. i know what i want, and i'm not letting my past ruin it. i am now in the process of accepting what has happened.

I CAN NOT CHANGE THE PAST, NO MATTER WHAT. i can't bring all that baggage with me all my life - i have to let it go. LEARN FROM THE PAST, ENJOY MY PRESENT, AND LOOK FORWARD TO MY FUTURE. i say this to myself every morning i wake-up.


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## Marc878

Did you ever inform the other mans wife?

If not you really need to stop helping them hide their affair.


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## Marc878

Your wife keeps using the word mistake. It was her decision not a mistake. Apparently she still doesn't get it.


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## JohnA

What are (If any) of the separation? Are you just playing hermit at your brother house, dumping your entire family onto her? Was this one of her issues? In short are you just slowly ghosting out of her and your children's life? Are you children idea of what a dad is seeing once a week for dinner and every other week-end? Is there an agreement that either of you can date? 

Now is the time to also work on cleaning up your side of the street. Listen and own those issues she feels created a toxic relationship. You do this by your actions, not talking it to death. Here the thing your wife is right if both of you have learned bitter lessons from this you will remarry and the new spouse benefits. This was written by a women, note her closing statement about who befitted.

Why improve yourself by the new wife of a BS*

As a side note I always find it very interesting when a person is hammering their ex mate so hard for cheating and refuses to accept any responsibility for anything that might have been wrong in the marriage.

My husband's exwife cheated on him and left him for the OM. She was pregnant by OM before the divorce was final. When I met him he admitted he knew he'd done things in the marriage which left it vulnerable to an affair.*

He didn't condone her affair but he accepted responsibility for his part in the demise of their marriage. That was something I had to respect. He worked on himself, in therapy, while they were separated and divorcing. When she wouldn't go to MC, he went alone, and I have reaped the benefit from that counseling. *

___________________________________________________________

BS be this person. *

What are the top 3 to 5 issues your wife had with the marriage.


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## Marc878

Maybe but sometimes it's just as simple as they just wanted some strange and took the opportunity to get it.

I'd bet this wasn't her first rodeo either.


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## JustTheFacts

Hope things work out well for you and your children. Good luck.


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## sancheharri

Marc878 said:


> Did you ever inform the other mans wife?
> 
> If not you really need to stop helping them hide their affair.


it was one of my initial reactions - revenge, to make the other man suffer as i was suffering. but now, i really don't care. i am moving on and im not looking back. it's not worth my time or effort.



Marc878 said:


> Your wife keeps using the word mistake. It was her decision not a mistake. Apparently she still doesn't get it.


yes, i think she still doesn't get it. again, i really don't care anymore whether she gets it or not. 



JohnA said:


> What are (If any) of the separation? Are you just playing hermit at your brother house, dumping your entire family onto her? Was this one of her issues? In short are you just slowly ghosting out of her and your children's life? Are you children idea of what a dad is seeing once a week for dinner and every other week-end? Is there an agreement that either of you can date?
> 
> Now is the time to also work on cleaning up your side of the street. Listen and own those issues she feels created a toxic relationship. You do this by your actions, not talking it to death. Here the thing your wife is right if both of you have learned bitter lessons from this you will remarry and the new spouse benefits. This was written by a women, note her closing statement about who befitted.
> 
> Why improve yourself by the new wife of a BS*
> 
> As a side note I always find it very interesting when a person is hammering their ex mate so hard for cheating and refuses to accept any responsibility for anything that might have been wrong in the marriage.
> 
> My husband's exwife cheated on him and left him for the OM. She was pregnant by OM before the divorce was final. When I met him he admitted he knew he'd done things in the marriage which left it vulnerable to an affair.*
> 
> He didn't condone her affair but he accepted responsibility for his part in the demise of their marriage. That was something I had to respect. He worked on himself, in therapy, while they were separated and divorcing. When she wouldn't go to MC, he went alone, and I have reaped the benefit from that counseling. *
> 
> ___________________________________________________________
> 
> BS be this person. *
> 
> What are the top 3 to 5 issues your wife had with the marriage.


i know i am 50% responsible for our marriage, but she is 100% responsible for her infidelity. i learned lessons about marriage and relationships the hard way. your advice is good if both parties are still willing to work it out...but i'm not interested. i don't feel anything for her anymore. i don't want to engage and argue with her about custody. we had enough of that already. it will just inflict more damage to my kid if go to court for custody. to be fair, aside from her infidelity, she is taking good care of them. i'll just leave it at that. someday, i'm sure the children will understand.



JustTheFacts said:


> Hope things work out well for you and your children. Good luck.


thanks. yes, that is where i will put my effort - my chidrens' well-being.


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## Marc878

sancheharri said:


> it was one of my initial reactions - revenge, to make the other man suffer as i was suffering. but now, i really don't care. i am moving on and im not looking back. it's not worth my time or effort.
> 
> Wouldn't you have wanted to know the truth?
> 
> yes, i think she still doesn't get it. again, i really don't care anymore whether she gets it or not.
> 
> You are correct that's her problem. You can't fix it.
> 
> i know i am 50% responsible for our marriage, but she is 100% responsible for her infidelity. i learned lessons about marriage and relationships the hard way. your advice is good if both parties are still willing to work it out...but i'm not interested. i don't feel anything for her anymore. i don't want to engage and argue with her about custody. we had enough of that already. it will just inflict more damage to my kid if go to court for custody. to be fair, aside from her infidelity, she is taking good care of them. i'll just leave it at that. someday, i'm sure the children will understand.
> 
> Your son needs a father in his life. It's almost guaranteed 50/50 in today's world. You'll inflict more damage by not being in his life and providing a fathers influence. He will not understand you just giving up and leaving him.
> 
> thanks. yes, that is where i will put my effort - my chidrens' well-being.


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## turnera

Wait, what? You're not going to fight to get 50% time with your kids?


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## Nucking Futs

sancheharri said:


> it was one of my initial reactions - revenge, to make the other man suffer as i was suffering. but now, i really don't care. i am moving on and im not looking back. *it's not worth my time or effort.*


Really? You're here, accepting help from other people who have been there, accepting their time and effort to help you, and you're so selfish that you can't be bothered to simply share some info with someone else that's in the same situation you're in? Really? Why should we continue to help you then?


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## aine

Nucking Futs said:


> Really? You're here, accepting help from other people who have been there, accepting their time and effort to help you, and you're so selfish that you can't be bothered to simply share some info with someone else that's in the same situation you're in? Really? Why should we continue to help you then?


SC, I hope he comes back, I really don't think he meant what you think he did?


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## sancheharri

turnera said:


> Wait, what? You're not going to fight to get 50% time with your kids?


excuse me for not being clear about this. what i mean is i will not go to court to fight for full-custody. it's my right to see my children. and she acknowledged it. she encourages me to spend as much time as i want with the children (perhaps in her mind, it's also her chance to see me and have the chance to win me back?). 



Nucking Futs said:


> Really? You're here, accepting help from other people who have been there, accepting their time and effort to help you, and you're so selfish that you can't be bothered to simply share some info with someone else that's in the same situation you're in? Really? Why should we continue to help you then?


 i'm sorry i don't get what you mean...


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## Nucking Futs

sancheharri said:


> Marc878 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you ever inform the other mans wife?
> 
> If not you really need to stop helping them hide their affair.
> 
> 
> 
> it was one of my initial reactions - revenge, to make the other man suffer as i was suffering. but now, i really don't care. i am moving on and im not looking back. it's not worth my time or effort.
Click to expand...




Nucking Futs said:


> Really? You're here, accepting help from other people who have been there, accepting their time and effort to help you, and you're so selfish that you can't be bothered to simply share some info with someone else that's in the same situation you're in? Really? Why should we continue to help you then?





sancheharri said:


> i'm sorry i don't get what you mean...


Let me lay it out for you. Marc878 asked you if you ever informed the other mans wife, you replied that it wasn't worth your time, I pointed out how selfish that is and basically called you out for the hypocrisy of accepting our help but refusing to provide the same assistance to the other BS who is in the same situation as you because it's not worth your time. Why the hell should it be worth any of our time to help _you_ when it's not worth your time to help _her_?


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## Marc878

Running away from your problems and responsibilities to your kids won't get you much.

It is the easy way out.


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## Malaise

Nucking Futs said:


> Let me lay it out for you. Marc878 asked you if you ever informed the other mans wife, you replied that it wasn't worth your time, I pointed out how selfish that is and basically called you out for the hypocrisy of accepting our help but refusing to provide the same assistance to the other BS who is in the same situation as you because it's not worth your time. Why the hell should it be worth any of our time to help _you_ when it's not worth your time to help _her_?


A wise, and dare I say it, good looking poster said the same thing on another thread awhile back and it's still true. You can't expect to get help if you're not willing to give it.


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## sancheharri

@Nucking Futs - as i 've said, it was one of my initial reactions - revenge. i tried to track and search for more information about this guy, but i can't find any. i tried to call and sending emails to the hotel but the people there were not interested. my WW says she doesn't know the name of his wife (she claims she doesn't know much about him). i wanted to tell the OM's wife. my helplessness on this issue just added to my misery...I JUST HAVE TO LET IT ALL GO or i'll go insane. i just hope and pray someday the OM's wife finds out one way or another.

and in retrospect, does the OM's wife really want to know? i've read somewhere that some people prefer not to know if their spouses cheated.


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## sancheharri

guys, i want to ask you about something i've been thinking and feeling for the past few days. 

lately, whenever i visit and see my children, i look at her and see sadness in her. i feel PITY for her. i'm not "falling in love" with her, just pity. pity for destroying her family for nothing. she got nothing in the end. perhaps she got something during her affair, but at the end of it all, she was just used and taken advantage of by someone who really didn't care for her and broke her family. 

i'm aware she's the only one who can help herself, but am i right to feel this way and somehow want her to recover for her own good and for our children's well-being?


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## turnera

You don't stop caring about someone overnight, so what you're feeling is normal. It's a shame people don't get taught about affairs when they're in high school or something; maybe some of them could fend off the other person's advances, seeing it for what it is.


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## TDSC60

Feelings of pity and concern for the troubles of another human being are perfectly normal.
Just be aware that, while you wish you could do something to help her, this is a natural consequence of her actions and 100% a result of the path she chose.


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## Marc878

sancheharri said:


> guys, i want to ask you about something i've been thinking and feeling for the past few days.
> 
> lately, whenever i visit and see my children, i look at her and see sadness in her. i feel PITY for her. i'm not "falling in love" with her, just pity. pity for destroying her family for nothing. she got nothing in the end. perhaps she got something during her affair, but at the end of it all, *she was just used and taken advantage of by someone* who really didn't care for her and broke her family.
> 
> The other man only took what she gave him. I don't think you see the truth here yet.
> 
> i'm aware she's the only one who can help herself, but am i right to feel this way and somehow want her to recover for her own good and for our children's well-being?


It's ok to feel for her but that's no longer your job to try and fix.


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## sancheharri

"The other man only took what she gave him. I don't think you see the truth here yet."


Marc878 said:


> It's ok to feel for her but that's no longer your job to try and fix.


thanks, this put some sense into me. you're 100% right - the OM won't be taking advantage of her if she wasn't willing to give it. geez, i feel like a fool for entertaining some thoughts she was "somehow a victim".


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## Marc878

Your only path forward is to fully wake up. Life is what you make it.

https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf


----------

