# Moved with with BF and his 11 year old daughter (having daughter issues)



## Ursula

Well, we've officially hit our first snag. The first week that I was living with BF and his daughter went really well; she's 11 and seemed to have a lot of fun playing with us, teaching us gymnastics and painting our toenails. Nothing seemed amiss at all, and she seemed to settle into a groove pretty well. Then the next week, she was with her Mom, and this week Sunday she was supposed to be back with us. Sunday she came over in the afternoon and went back to her Mom's for the night. Same thing Monday and Tuesday. It's a bit of running for her Dad, as his dog is now in doggy daycare and needs to be picked up before 6pm. Doggy daycare is in our town; his daughter's Mom lives 10-15 mins away in a city and that's also where their daughter goes to school.

OK, some background information:

- youngest daughter is 11 (oldest is 17 and lives with her Mom)

- she looks, talks and acts MUCH younger (if I didn't know her age, I'd guess it at about 7).

- talking: she speaks like a 3 year old all the bloody time. For example: one my dog's names is Lily, she pronounces it Wiwy. She substitutes a W for both the L and R, so I weally have to wowk at intewpwetting when she tawks, which has been difficuwt to wearn. This is getting easier, but still a bit of a challenge sometimes. Her Dad thinks this is normal, and says that all of her friends do this; I've met 2 of them so far and neither of them do this, and the one girl is 9 years old. Is this a normal way that kids these days (of this age, anyways) talk?

- the way she acts: is quite a bit younger (I think) than an 11 year old as well. She literally hangs off of her Dad's arm, begging him to come play. She brought out an old cash register that she had from a few years ago, and OMG is this thing annoying. She will constantly be at her Dad when him and I are making supper or while he was making his weekly lunches on the weekend. And when I say constant, it's constant: Dada come play, Dada the store is open, come shop, Dada are you done yet, how about now, Dada come play now. I find it very strange that she can't seem to entertain herself at all, unless she's on her iPad. Is this normal?

- she was sexually abused by her 15/16 year old cousin when they were visiting. This happened more than once, and she doesn't know that I know about it. There was no penetration, but there was innappropriate touching. He has since been charged and is doing community service in the city that they live in. This quite possibly has something to do with how clingy and needy she is with her Dad. I'm not sure if she's like this with her Mom.

- Her parents separated about 4.5 years ago when she was 7, and I imagine that it was hard on her. Her Dad is the one who left due to a toxic marriage to a volatile person who both drank too much and smoked too much pot. His youngest displays traits of her Mom's personality. When they separated, he parented both his kids out of guilt (he has admitted this), and let them away with a little too much. He allowed his youngest to share his bed twice a week during the weeks she stayed with him, and it continued until a few months before I moved in. Within the last few months as well, he has finally been putting his foot down with both his kids, and means it when he says "no" more often. I get the feeling guilty part, but I can't imagine that does anything positive for the kids. They are both very spoiled girls. Until very recently as well, he was also still cutting up food for his youngest, and helping her out of the bathtub. He still tucks her in and has to lay with her until she falls asleep. 

Wow okay, all that being said, she's a kind, caring girl, especially towards animals, which I'm grateful for. I moved in with 2 small, elderly dogs who she loves and they also love her. We have fun when we're all together, although I will admit that the constant need for someone to play with her can be a little much at times.

I feel badly that she wants to spend time with her Dad, but she doesn't want to be in the house only because I'm now living there. I feel bad for her Dad who misses her. I'm really not sure what to do or how to be around her. I want to get to know her and have her get to know me more, but she makes that darn near impossible. Her Dad took her out for ice cream last night on the trip back to her Mom's, and talked to her. She won't talk to him about what all is bothering her, but he told her that he loves me, that this is my home now, and that he doesn't want to live without me anymore. For the weekend, I've offered to make myself scarce, and told him that he should maybe take his daughter out for a day of Daddy-daughter fun.


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## minimalME

So this is the life that you've chosen. You volunteered for it. Do you want to continue living this way?

How many _weeks_ have you been living together, and you're already complaining about this poor child who comes from a broken home?

Please don't expect this 11 year old girl to change in order to accommodate you and make your life more pleasant.

She came first. Even if you and her father now find that somewhat annoying. 😠


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## Ursula

minimalME said:


> So this is the life that you've chosen. You volunteered for it. Do you want to continue living this way?
> 
> How many _weeks_ have you been living together, and you're already complaining about this poor child who comes from a broken home?
> 
> Please don't expect this 11 year old girl to change in order to accommodate you and make your life more pleasant.
> 
> She came first. Even if you and her father now find that somewhat annoying. 😠


No, I don't want to continue this kind of relationship with her; I would love to have a better relationship with her than I had with my mother. I have been living there for almost 3 weeks now, and BF and I have been together for 3.5 years. I'm not necessarily complaining about her, although I can see how you'd think that. I'm trying to give some facts so that folks here have a better idea of what is going on. I apologize if it came across as complaining. 

In no way to I expect an 11 year old to change in order to accommodate me! Wowie, I'm so sorry that you got that from my post! I have some hopes, but zero expectations. And, I have no problem making myself scarce when she's around, and even offered to stay with my folks for a few days so that they can have some Daddy-daughter time.


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## minimalME

Ursula said:


> If you have some helpful advice on how to handle this situation though, I'd be happy to hear it!


Oh, I added to my unhelpfulness. This is just so common these days, and then people wonder why these children end up a mess.


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## Lotsofheart73

My youngest daughter is 11. But she is one of 3 and we have not been through a divorce. I don’t have any input on the silly speak.

As far as the clinginess, she does sound like a daddy’s girl big time. It kind of sounds like he’s indulged in that. Suspect the divorceand perhaps that abuse have stunted her emotionally. But honestly, I do not think all her behavior with her Dad is that far off the charts. She is the only child at home. Her sister is so much older so it’s like she’s an only child now. You mentioned meeting a few of her friends. Does she spend much time with them? Doesnt sound like it.
She’s is at the age that most kids are already wanting to be less playing with toys and playing with parents but since she has no siblings to play with, sometimes they stay in this younger way of acting longer.
She will need to spread her wings some so to speak but that will have to come from her with a little help from Dad. I’ve read your previous posts about getting the timing right on moving in with bf. I’m surprised that you’re surprised by this behavior.

As far as getting to know her better, have you invited her to go with you to do something you know she likes or might be interested in trying? Like going to get pedicures or shopping for any things that she collects? Maybe bf can suggest something?
Or if you think that might make her feel “forced”, maybe you can invite her to come with you to help you pick out something you need help selecting and get her for input ?


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## Lotsofheart73

And for background, I’m a mom of 3. 
1 son & 2 daughters. There is about a 7 year age gap between 1st (son) and the other 2. Daughters are only 13 months apart. No divorce, but Dad works long shifts and has to go to bed earlier than the kids school night bedtime sometimes. I can tell you that even at the girls ages, they both jockey for Dad’s attention.


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## Ursula

minimalME said:


> Oh, I added to my unhelpfulness. This is just so common these days, and then people wonder why these children end up a mess.


Honestly, yes, this is so sad. The divorce affected her no doubt, and she would love for her parents to get back together. However, with her mother high or drunk much of the time, that won't be happening. Thankfully she has stopped doing and dealing cocaine though. 🙏 I also think that there are other factors that contributed to her current state though (abuse by her cousin, and just the fact that she's been mostly in control of her Dad's household for the past few years, and has started to have boundaries enforced on her in the past few months, and she also doesn't like not having that control anymore). And I don't blame her either, if I put myself in her shoes, I'd be ticked right off.


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## *Deidre*

It has to be tough for everyone involved, but it’s toughest on kids of divorce. Plus, she has experienced other serious trauma and the divorce is additional upheaval. In the best of circumstances, imagine having to live in two separate homes - every week. Kids don’t always express themselves well, not like adults, and her “immature” behaviors may be how this is manifesting. I would be as patient as you can, and understand that her mom probably is affecting her too.

I think if you take a step back a bit and let your bf and his daughter have quality time without you on occasion, that may help. Eventually, she needs to understand that you are with her dad now, but it may take time. It may not turn out like a Hallmark movie lol but hopefully, she will grow to see that you’re not a threat and that she can trust you. Maybe even love you, someday.


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## Livvie

I do think her behavior is off the average charts. I say this as a mother and former elementary school teacher. 

Will her speech be addressed in school? Sounds like she needs speech therapy. Does she speak like that at school? Sounds like it would be impeding her progress in an academic setting, and also socially at school.

I think the father needing assistance out of the bathtub at 11 years old is worrying. She should be bathing herself on her own.

She should also be able to entertain herself at that age. 

She sounds very developmentally delayed, has the school conducted testing? Can she make it through the school day on her own and complete in school assignments?


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## Affaircare

@Ursula, 

As you know, I have nine children: two that I birthed--2 sons, five step-children from Dear Hubby (TanelornPete)--4 sons and a daughter, and two step-daughters with Beloved Hubby (Emerging Buddhist). Each one is so different! Your step-daughter will also be her own, completely weird, individual self. 

That being said, it does sound to me as if there are some issues here. 
1) You aren't her parent so you may not be able to have much input in your raising OTHER than being expected to do everything a mom should do and get no credit for it. That is the life of a step-parent. 
2) She does sound like something is going on. Children at 11yo might do that baby-talk as a joke for part of a day...but they don't do it "all the time". And they don't need to be tucked in and helped out of the shower. It sounds to me like she is trying to stay a toddler. That is one way of coping with the things that have occurred in her life: stay a toddler. However, as a parental figure in her life, I think you might speak with her father (your BF) and encourage them to get some family therapy. As a dad, he needs to help guide her into appropriate 11yo developmental behavior and not encourage her to stay a toddler. Likewise, as a step-mom, that is NOT your place! I suspect a family therapist might be able to help SD11yo to learn new, more age-appropriate coping techniques and also help Dad/BF to learn what is and is not appropriate for an 11yo. 
3) Regarding you and her relationship: my best advice is just to keep on doing what's right and doing kind things in the home, but also be consistent. For example, when you speak to her, don't baby talk back...but be kind to her. Include her in things and be friendly. Don't expect to "discipline" her but also don't accept disrespect. Usually that's anger talking, so a) it's not personal, b) make sure she is safe, c) say something like "Wow that sounds like you're angry!" and d) teach emotion regulation skills (like "You know what I do when I'm so angry I don't know what to do with it? I write a letter and then throw it away!" or "I take a long walk and get it all out"). 

I think the BIGGEST thing that will go the longest way is being consistent. She will be watching how you behave, and if she knows what to expect from you and can see from your actions she'll be safe, she will relate to you--but don't be surprised if she does act out with you because she can't act out with her high/drunk mom!! Stay consistent and stay kind. Step-parenting is NOT easy!!


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## bobert

People can be emotionally stunted at the age that trauma occurred. If she's still acting like a 7 year old, the age when she had a trauma (divorce), that may be why. The way she wants to play sounds like my 6 year old. It could also come from the sibling age gap. 

Baby talking can be a stage but is also a sign of something going on, such as trauma or wanting attention. It can also be a developmental delay or speech impediment/articulation problem. Has she always baby talked, or did it start at some point along the line? Is it constant? Its not "normal" for an 11 year old, no. My 6 year old does it for attention and it drives me absolutely mental (age 6-8 is typical, if I remember correctly).

My 11 year old really started clinging to me after going through some hard stuff that made her feel pretty unsafe and a fear of abandonment. She might as well have been glued to me and she acted similar to your BFs daughter. With therapy for her it's getting better but slowly. 

Personally, I don't think there is anything wrong with her wanting to be tucked in (which can turn into checking in with a tween/teen at the end of the day). A lot (if not all) of what you mentioned can be caused by anxiety, which is usually worse at night for children. That may be why she cannot fall asleep alone. 

She needs a children's therapist. If her dad tells the school what is going on they may have counselors and behavioral therapy available, if cost is an issue.


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## 342693

Been there, done that...got the divorce to show. Raising someone else's child is very tough by itself. But add in mental issues, which this child obviously has (same in my situation) and you are in for a troubled marriage. Keep in mind this child is only 11 and hasn't hit puberty and the teenage years yet.

I'm not saying you should jump ship, but you are in for a rough patch.


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## AVR1962

Lady, I know you want to give this your best and you want to be understanding towards the whole family dynamic. You have been dating this man for 3 1/2 years and I can imagine your excitement with this step of living together. I do hope your boyfriend supports you to his children and I do hope the bio mom is accepting. That is what it is going to take, a true team effort. Without it you have a very tough road ahead.


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## Ursula

Lotsofheart73 said:


> My youngest daughter is 11. But she is one of 3 and we have not been through a divorce. I don’t have any input on the silly speak.
> 
> As far as the clinginess, she does sound like a daddy’s girl big time. It kind of sounds like he’s indulged in that. Suspect the divorceand perhaps that abuse have stunted her emotionally. But honestly, I do not think all her behavior with her Dad is that far off the charts. She is the only child at home. Her sister is so much older so it’s like she’s an only child now. You mentioned meeting a few of her friends. Does she spend much time with them? Doesnt sound like it.
> 
> She’s is at the age that most kids are already wanting to be less playing with toys and playing with parents but since she has no siblings to play with, sometimes they stay in this younger way of acting longer.
> 
> She will need to spread her wings some so to speak but that will have to come from her with a little help from Dad. I’ve read your previous posts about getting the timing right on moving in with bf. I’m surprised that you’re surprised by this behavior.
> 
> As far as getting to know her better, have you invited her to go with you to do something you know she likes or might be interested in trying? Like going to get pedicures or shopping for any things that she collects? Maybe bf can suggest something?
> 
> Or if you think that might make her feel “forced”, maybe you can invite her to come with you to help you pick out something you need help selecting and get her for input?


Thank-you for some clarification, and it's good to know that I AM off-base on some of these things and expectations that I had. I will need to alter my way of thinking in the future. 

Daddy's girl = yes, big time, and yes he has indulged that over the past few years as well. Divorce and abuse is what I also suspected has stunted her, although her Dad says that she isn't stunted. The age difference between her and her sister (6 years) was much the same as it was between me and my sister (8 years), so I get the only child thoughts. When my folks and I moved to another province (sis stayed behind), I essentially became an only child.

Friend-wise, she doesn't have many. I think this is partly because of being bopped from Mom's house to Dad's house, and she also went to a not-so-great school last year; she has switched schools this year. I also feel like it has something to do with her moods; when her one friend was over, his daughter locked herself in her bedroom, and her friend hung out with me, helping me make lunches, and she commented on how his daughter was cranky.

She still plays with toys: that cash register thing she found downstairs, she has her dolly that she pushes around in a stroller, and she LOVES fidgets.

I'm also thinking that the "spreading of the wings" will come a little later. And just to clarify, I'm not really surprised by her behaviour; I've seen her at her best and worst over the past 3.5 years, so I know how she can be. I was just hoping for otherwise, especially given that our first week altogether was fantastic. A couple months before moving in, her grandpa told me that if she's in a bad mood, don't let it affect me, and to just ignore her. 

It had been suggested by her Dad that her and I should go spend some time together, and then that came to a crashing halt when she told her Dad that she no longer wanted me to move in. No reasons, just a big nope. I didn't feel comfortable pushing anything, so her Dad and I backed off. She ended up coming around to the idea of me moving in, and said that she would give it a month's chance. Maybe once things settle down a little and she settles into her new classes and school, we can revisit that.


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## Ursula

Livvie said:


> I do think her behavior is off the average charts. I say this as a mother and former elementary school teacher.
> 
> Will her speech be addressed in school? Sounds like she needs speech therapy. Does she speak like that at school? Sounds like it would be impeding her progress in an academic setting, and also socially at school.
> 
> I think the father needing assistance out of the bathtub at 11 years old is worrying. She should be bathing herself on her own.
> 
> She should also be able to entertain herself at that age.
> 
> She sounds very developmentally delayed, has the school conducted testing? Can she make it through the school day on her own and complete in school assignments?


Hey @Livvie, in answer to your questions:

She CAN actually speak normally when asked to use her "big girl words", or when I questioningly repeat something that she says that doesn't make sense, she will repeat it back correctly. I don't know if she speaks like that in school, but I'm hoping now that she's in grade 6, that she will learn from the other students. She's big on what's cool and what's not. She is a fantastic student though, and gets really good grades and has won awards for her achievements as well.

Yes, I agree about the bathtub, although he doesn't bathe her, just helps her out of the tub. Oh, and she also goes into the same cubicle as him when they change into swimwear at our local public pool.

I'm not sure that she'd be developmentally delayed, but I do think that she's emotionally stunted. I've had the thought that maybe she talks like a toddler because that is the last time that she was truly happy and in what she thought was a happy family, and so she resorts back to that time?

She can entertain herself, but only with her iPad; nothing else seems to be enough to entertain her on her own.


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## bobert

Ursula said:


> She ended up coming around to the idea of me moving in, and said that she would give it a month's chance.


This stood out. Her dad is letting her have WAY too much control over decisions that are not hers to make. That can make kids more anxious, not less. They need a parent to be a parent. Also, fidget toys are popular for kids with anxiety (among other issues).


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## Ursula

Affaircare said:


> @Ursula,
> 
> As you know, I have nine children: two that I birthed--2 sons, five step-children from Dear Hubby (TanelornPete)--4 sons and a daughter, and two step-daughters with Beloved Hubby (Emerging Buddhist). Each one is so different! Your step-daughter will also be her own, completely weird, individual self.
> 
> That being said, it does sound to me as if there are some issues here.
> 
> 1) You aren't her parent so you may not be able to have much input in your raising OTHER than being expected to do everything a mom should do and get no credit for it. That is the life of a step-parent.
> 
> 2) She does sound like something is going on. Children at 11yo might do that baby-talk as a joke for part of a day...but they don't do it "all the time". And they don't need to be tucked in and helped out of the shower. It sounds to me like she is trying to stay a toddler. That is one way of coping with the things that have occurred in her life: stay a toddler. However, as a parental figure in her life, I think you might speak with her father (your BF) and encourage them to get some family therapy. As a dad, he needs to help guide her into appropriate 11yo developmental behavior and not encourage her to stay a toddler. Likewise, as a step-mom, that is NOT your place! I suspect a family therapist might be able to help SD11yo to learn new, more age-appropriate coping techniques and also help Dad/BF to learn what is and is not appropriate for an 11yo.
> 
> 3) Regarding you and her relationship: my best advice is just to keep on doing what's right and doing kind things in the home, but also be consistent. For example, when you speak to her, don't baby talk back...but be kind to her. Include her in things and be friendly. Don't expect to "discipline" her but also don't accept disrespect. Usually that's anger talking, so a) it's not personal, b) make sure she is safe, c) say something like "Wow that sounds like you're angry!" and d) teach emotion regulation skills (like "You know what I do when I'm so angry I don't know what to do with it? I write a letter and then throw it away!" or "I take a long walk and get it all out").
> 
> I think the BIGGEST thing that will go the longest way is being consistent. She will be watching how you behave, and if she knows what to expect from you and can see from your actions she'll be safe, she will relate to you--but don't be surprised if she does act out with you because she can't act out with her high/drunk mom!! Stay consistent and stay kind. Step-parenting is NOT easy!!


Wowie, nope, I sure didn't know that you have 9 children!

Let me answer/comment on your post:

1. I've never considered myself a step-parent, but more of a role model for the girls. Especially since their Mom is a bit of a character.

2. You may be onto something there with wanting to stay a toddler so that she can cope more easily. I have actually mentioned to BF that he may need to go to therapy himself only to learn ways to better communicate with his daughter and to break through her shell. She doesn't talk to him about anything. Like even if she's in a bad mood just because she's tired, it will take a lot of time for her to finally admit that. I'm not sure why, tiredness isn't a bad thing, nor is it a big secret. She has been in therapy for the previous abuse, but absolutely refused to talk, so that went nowhere, fast. 

3. Good advice, thank-you. I have a bad habit of just shutting down in times like this, but I will keep interracting with her on her terms.


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## Ursula

bobert said:


> People can be emotionally stunted at the age that trauma occurred. If she's still acting like a 7 year old, the age when she had a trauma (divorce), that may be why. The way she wants to play sounds like my 6 year old. It could also come from the sibling age gap.
> 
> Baby talking can be a stage but is also a sign of something going on, such as trauma or wanting attention. It can also be a developmental delay or speech impediment/articulation problem. Has she always baby talked, or did it start at some point along the line? Is it constant? Its not "normal" for an 11 year old, no. My 6 year old does it for attention and it drives me absolutely mental (age 6-8 is typical, if I remember correctly).
> 
> My 11 year old really started clinging to me after going through some hard stuff that made her feel pretty unsafe and a fear of abandonment. She might as well have been glued to me and she acted similar to your BFs daughter. With therapy for her it's getting better but slowly.
> 
> Personally, I don't think there is anything wrong with her wanting to be tucked in (which can turn into checking in with a tween/teen at the end of the day). A lot (if not all) of what you mentioned can be caused by anxiety, which is usually worse at night for children. That may be why she cannot fall asleep alone.
> 
> She needs a children's therapist. If her dad tells the school what is going on they may have counselors and behavioral therapy available, if cost is an issue.


She doesn't always talk baby talk, and can pronounce things correctly, but she chooses to do the baby talk. I've known her since she was 8yo, and she talks like this probably 80-90% of the time. Her Dad says that he doesn't even realize that she's doing that anymore, but he's probably just very used to it.

I'm sorry to hear that your 11yo is going through a hard time, but glad to hear that therapy is helping her a little. 

Yeah, tucking in isn't really an issue, as that's a time when they can catch up and just be together. 

She had gone to a therapist after the abuse, but it didn't help at all, as she refused to talk to her therapist. BF says that he wants to put her into therapy again, but has also said that it's probably pointless, unfortunatley.


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## Ursula

AVR1962 said:


> Lady, I know you want to give this your best and you want to be understanding towards the whole family dynamic. You have been dating this man for 3 1/2 years and I can imagine your excitement with this step of living together. I do hope your boyfriend supports you to his children and I do hope the bio mom is accepting. That is what it is going to take, a true team effort. Without it you have a very tough road ahead.


BF supports me and stands up for our relationship, 100%, and has demonstrated that more than once. I know that we're solid. I also know that issues with the kids can destroy a relationship. Yes, it's an exciting step, and it was necessary for us as a couple too. We saw each other 2-3 times every second week, which was taking a toll. I've met their bio Mom once, and while she seems nice, I know that she also can be pretty... interesting. I know that BF mentioned their daughter's attitude to her at one point a couple months ago, and said that it was probably to do with us planning a move-in. BF's XW actually sided with us (gasp), and talked to their daughter on our behalf. 

Long road ahead = oh yes!


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## Ursula

bobert said:


> This stood out. Her dad is letting her have WAY too much control over decisions that are not hers to make. That can make kids more anxious, not less. They need a parent to be a parent. Also, fidget toys are popular for kids with anxiety (among other issues).


I agree, and this is just one example. I've mentioned this to her Dad as well, and he's aware that him and his XW give the kids too much control over adult things. He's a really good Dad, and is honestly just doing the best that he can. But yeah, hopefully he'll start reigning that in a little.


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## D0nnivain

Give her some time & just be patient. Mom is probably poisoning her so continue to be nice. She needs to see by your actions that you are a safe space.


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## Lotsofheart73

Also keep in mind that it is easy for us moms to say what we think is normal or not normal based on our experiences but, keep in mind that what is normal behavior or normal emotional growth is probably alot larger/ bigger variance than we probably realize. I find myself often surprised when I speak with other parents that I’m only acquainted with and hear them describe their child being afraid to do this or that or not being able to handle certain things on their own. All 3 of my kids have attended a summer camp several hours from home from a youngish age (about 8). They may get alittle nervous because they will know no one there etc. But they are always excited to go and I’ve never gotten a call to come get one. I come across many parents telling about how anxious their child is to go to camp when they’re 11/12 years old and all the worry etc. And I’m thinking, really, your 12 year old has trouble going to camp and being away from mom and home (parents words).

I see that she also changed schools this year. That’s probably very hard for her. Going between parents house shouldn’t affect her friends wise too much. It’s much easier to keep up with friends these day with technology.

It seems to just be a lot. Even though it’s been known youwere going to move in for a while, her being a child probably just hoped it wouldn’t happen. For her, it’s more change.

As bobert mentioned, dad being in charge and leading is important. Kids need consistency.


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## Teacherwifemom

I’m going to come at this as a former long time 6th grade teacher of 11 year olds. First of all you sound like you’re a great step mom. I’m wondering if she had intensive (or any) therapy after the sexual abuse. If she didn’t, why not, and if she did, is it continuing, because between that and the divorce she needs it? Does she talk like this at school and with her friends? Does she have normal friendships with girls her own age? I can tell you that 90% of my 6th grade girls considered that the year where they began practicing for the teenage years lol. Makeup, hair, bras (whether they needed them or not). And the others either just weren’t into the girlie stuff or we’re just a little behind socially. If she behaved like this in school she would have been shunned by the other girls and probably would have been the one sitting alone at lunch . In all the years I only remember one boy who acted this babyish. I think the tucking in is nice and normal. The getting her out of the bath is completely inappropriate and as a teacher if I were made aware of that I would go straight to the guidance counselor with that information and as mandated reporters that would trigger a phone call. That’s really not okay at all at her age, even pre-puberty. So I’m not really sure what you can do about this, but dad needs to gently start enforcing some personal boundaries while continuing to be loving and affectionate. This child has been through some serious trauma and that usually doesn’t play out well in later years. My best advice is for dad to talk to both her guidance counselor and pediatrician, if he will. I’m not sure you should be going to stay at your folk’s home when she’s there. A few hours of one on one time is good for them, but this could really turn into a power play, albeit unconsciously on her part. She does need to adjust to this new living situation and sounds as if you are warm and loving to her. I’d really love to hear about what school and peer relationships look like for her. This is a LOT of red flags and very far out of the large realm of normal 11 year behavior.


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## Ursula

Teacherwifemom said:


> I’m going to come at this as a former long time 6th grade teacher of 11 year olds. First of all you sound like you’re a great step mom. I’m wondering if she had intensive (or any) therapy after the sexual abuse. If she didn’t, why not, and if she did, is it continuing, because between that and the divorce she needs it? Does she talk like this at school and with her friends? Does she have normal friendships with girls her own age? I can tell you that 90% of my 6th grade girls considered that the year where they began practicing for the teenage years lol. Makeup, hair, bras (whether they needed them or not). And the others either just weren’t into the girlie stuff or we’re just a little behind socially. If she behaved like this in school she would have been shunned by the other girls and probably would have been the one sitting alone at lunch . In all the years I only remember one boy who acted this babyish. I think the tucking in is nice and normal. The getting her out of the bath is completely inappropriate and as a teacher if I were made aware of that I would go straight to the guidance counselor with that information and as mandated reporters that would trigger a phone call. That’s really not okay at all at her age, even pre-puberty. So I’m not really sure what you can do about this, but dad needs to gently start enforcing some personal boundaries while continuing to be loving and affectionate. This child has been through some serious trauma and that usually doesn’t play out well in later years. My best advice is for dad to talk to both her guidance counselor and pediatrician, if he will. I’m not sure you should be going to stay at your folk’s home when she’s there. A few hours of one on one time is good for them, but this could really turn into a power play, albeit unconsciously on her part. She does need to adjust to this new living situation and sounds as if you are warm and loving to her. I’d really love to hear about what school and peer relationships look like for her. This is a LOT of red flags and very far out of the large realm of normal 11 year behavior.


Hi @Teacherwifemom, thanks for the reply!

She did have therapy (play therapy, I think) after her parents found out about the abuse, but she absolutely refused to talk to the therapist, so they weren't able to make much headway there. His daughter is so shut down in some regards that she won't even talk to her Dad. Unfortunately, I think it might be a case of getting into adulthood, and realizing that she needs some external help with some stuff. You're right, trauma tends to play out more in later years. Therapy was awhile ago, and isn't continuing, although BF wants to put her back into it. 

According to BF, she talks like a toddler with all of her friends; maybe it's the cool thing to do?? Her best friend is a little boy, 11, who is autistic, and she has a female friend who lives down the street from us. She's over a lot, but I can tell that his daughter gets annoyed with her.

As to school and peer relationships, she doesn't have many TBH, there's her autistic friend, the girl down the road, and another boy who also lives in our town. We've taken him swimming a couple times with us. Nice kid, super shy, and talks like a "normal" kid his age. I'm honestly not sure what she's like in school; I've never been witness to that, but hope to go to some school functions in the future. She's quite shy until you get to know her, and then she opens up a little in the chatting department. 

I wasn't allowed to wear makeup or other girly things at that age, but I can see girls doing that in this day and age for sure. I can also imagine that if she talks like a toddler in school, especially a new school where everything is a fresh slate for her, she will be made fun of badly. I was there, not because of toddler talk, but I was made fun of a lot, and it was awful.

I also think the tucking in is a nice thing to do, and I also agree with you about bathtime, and have expressed my concerns about that to BF. My Lord am I lucky to have a man that is open to open communication and to me learning all the parenting stuff. He hasn't been doing that lately, but I'm pretty sure that it stopped not long before I moved in.

I won't be going anywhere; when I brought up staying with my folks to BF, he said "absolutely not, this is your home".


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## DownByTheRiver

Ursula said:


> No, I don't want to continue this kind of relationship with her; I would love to have a better relationship with her than I had with my mother. I have been living there for almost 3 weeks now, and BF and I have been together for 3.5 years. I'm not necessarily complaining about her, although I can see how you'd think that. I'm trying to give some facts so that folks here have a better idea of what is going on. I apologize if it came across as complaining.
> 
> In no way to I expect an 11 year old to change in order to accommodate me! Wowie, I'm so sorry that you got that from my post! I have some hopes, but zero expectations. And, I have no problem making myself scarce when she's around, and even offered to stay with my folks for a few days so that they can have some Daddy-daughter time.


Not sure how much help this will be. She's talking baby talk to the dogs. I'll be 70 next month and I talk baby talk to my dog. Nearly every day I say something like, You are a weally good ghoul.

Unless she talks like a toddler all the time and not just at the dogs, I think it would be normal to talk silly to dogs.

Some girls with trauma in their past will stay in a younger voice and sometimes a quieter voice or even a whispering voice even up into adulthood. I don't think I'd be worried about it at age 11 though. If she is still baby talking as her normal voice to everyone and not just dogs at 16, I would get her to a counselor.

It sounds like she's picked up on that having you there is undesirable and of course she's going to want the approval of everyone in her family so she's probably doing a balancing act. Maybe it will work out in time.

Children are different about how much attention they demand and of course part of it is their personality and then part of it is their training or lack thereof.

Using myself as an example and really a lot of kids from my generation, many of us were expected to entertain ourselves and not be constantly seeking attention from the adults.

A friend of mine had a girl who was extremely social from the time I met her when she was two. She was overly attention demanding all through her childhood and really still is. I mean you couldn't have a conversation because she wanted to be the center of attention. And her mom would eventually tell her to go in her room for a while and she would, but then that would make her unhappy. I don't think it's unusual. Annoying, yes. Every kid needs manners training and to know not to interrupt adults. But I don't think you can influence the way he trains her at this late a date.

I think you just need to give it a few weeks at least and see if any new balance is struck. Does he not have an official custody schedule that he can demand to have her when it's his time?

If so, he needs to exercise that right and then do whatever it takes to work through any problems with that. If he didn't ask for a official custody schedule, that's kind of on him and that's something to ponder. Without one his life is always going to be upside down and that means yours is too with unexpected cancellations and visitations. So what's the custody agreement that they signed?

It's really all still up to him. If he can't make it a livable situation, you're not married and can walk away. And I would do that before I would live in a bunch of chaos.


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## Openminded

Sorry to hear that but totally not surprised. Your boyfriend has repeatedly taken the path of least resistance with her and sooner or later you all pay the price. My guess is that the only reason he stopped her sleeping with him is because you were moving in. She probably resents that and many other things that are no longer going her way. Getting her on a different path may or may not take a long time (hopefully not) but it’s obviously going to require lots of patience from you and lots of work on his part. Definitely don’t consider staying with your parents for any reason. Among other things, that gives her the idea she can get rid of you if and when she wants to. And she very likely will want to at some point. Blending families can be tough.


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## Livvie

DownByTheRiver said:


> Not sure how much help this will be. She's talking baby talk to the dogs. I'll be 70 next month and I talk baby talk to my dog. Nearly every day I say something like, You are a weally good ghoul.
> 
> Unless she talks like a toddler all the time and not just at the dogs, I think it would be normal to talk silly to dogs.
> 
> Some girls with trauma in their past will stay in a younger voice and sometimes a quieter voice or even a whispering voice even up into adulthood. I don't think I'd be worried about it at age 11 though. If she is still baby talking as her normal voice to everyone and not just dogs at 16, I would get her to a counselor.
> 
> It sounds like she's picked up on that having you there is undesirable and of course she's going to want the approval of everyone in her family so she's probably doing a balancing act. Maybe it will work out in time.
> 
> Children are different about how much attention they demand and of course part of it is their personality and then part of it is their training or lack thereof.
> 
> Using myself as an example and really a lot of kids from my generation, many of us were expected to entertain ourselves and not be constantly seeking attention from the adults.
> 
> A friend of mine had a girl who was extremely social from the time I met her when she was two. She was overly attention demanding all through her childhood and really still is. I mean you couldn't have a conversation because she wanted to be the center of attention. And her mom would eventually tell her to go in her room for a while and she would, but then that would make her unhappy. I don't think it's unusual. Annoying, yes. Every kid needs manners training and to know not to interrupt adults. But I don't think you can influence the way he trains her at this late a date.
> 
> I think you just need to give it a few weeks at least and see if any new balance is struck. Does he not have an official custody schedule that he can demand to have her when it's his time?
> 
> If so, he needs to exercise that right and then do whatever it takes to work through any problems with that. If he didn't ask for a official custody schedule, that's kind of on him and that's something to ponder. Without one his life is always going to be upside down and that means yours is too with unexpected cancellations and visitations. So what's the customer agreement that they signed?
> 
> It's really all still up to him. If he can't make it a livable situation, you're not married and can walk away. And I would do that before I would live in a bunch of chaos.


But, it's not just to the dogs. Ursula says she baby talks 80 to 90 percent of the time. That's a lot!!!!!! And definitely not normal for someone starting 6th grade.


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## DownByTheRiver

Livvie said:


> But, it's not just to the dogs. Ursula says she baby talks 80 to 90 percent of the time. That's a lot!!!!!! And definitely not normal for someone starting 6th grade.


If she's doing it around her peers, I agree, and that can happen from prior abuse where they get aspects of themselves stuck back at that age.


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## DownByTheRiver

It seems like if she was doing this at school, that one of the teachers would have mentioned it to the counselors or ask her parents about it.


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## bobert

DownByTheRiver said:


> It seems like if she was doing this at school, that one of the teachers would have mentioned it to the counselors or ask her parents about it.


I wouldn't count on that. Some schools may not have the resources to have counselors/availability, and when they do there is often strict requirements for treatment being "necessary" - especially up north. 

In my experience teachers also don't talk to parents much. They may have suggested it once or heard she was in counseling and left it at that.


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## DownByTheRiver

bobert said:


> I wouldn't count on that. Some schools may not have the resources to have counselors/availability, and when they do there is often strict requirements for treatment being "necessary" - especially up north.
> 
> In my experience teachers also don't talk to parents much. They may have suggested it once or heard she was in counseling and left it at that.


That's true. I think a lot of times it takes parental initiation to get them talking to counselors.


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## She'sStillGotIt

Ursula said:


> _*No, I don't want to continue this kind of relationship with her; I would love to have a better relationship with her than I had with my mother. I have been living there for almost 3 weeks now, and BF and I have been together for 3.5 years. I'm not necessarily complaining about her, although I can see how you'd think that. I'm trying to give some facts so that folks here have a better idea of what is going on. I apologize if it came across as complaining.
> 
> In no way to I expect an 11 year old to change in order to accommodate me! Wowie, I'm so sorry that you got that from my post! I have some hopes, but zero expectations. And, I have no problem making myself scarce when she's around, and even offered to stay with my folks for a few days so that they can have some Daddy-daughter time.*_



You're a much better woman than I.

I refused to date men with dependent children and your post is EXACTLY why.

The damned drama and baggage just never end. You'll see.


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## AVR1962

Ursula said:


> BF supports me and stands up for our relationship, 100%, and has demonstrated that more than once. I know that we're solid. I also know that issues with the kids can destroy a relationship. Yes, it's an exciting step, and it was necessary for us as a couple too. We saw each other 2-3 times every second week, which was taking a toll. I've met their bio Mom once, and while she seems nice, I know that she also can be pretty... interesting. I know that BF mentioned their daughter's attitude to her at one point a couple months ago, and said that it was probably to do with us planning a move-in. BF's XW actually sided with us (gasp), and talked to their daughter on our behalf.
> 
> Long road ahead = oh yes!


Understand your limits, understand what is good for you and what is not, understand what is working and what is not. I married a man who had custody of his children, boys were 5 & 7 at the time. Mom was a absent parent as long as she thought no one else was in the picture. As a stepmom I found you are to treat the children like kings and queens. Everything will get blamed on you just for being in their lives. You have no voice or legal rights no matter how much of a role you play in their lives. If the child decides to reject you there is nothing anyone can do about that, including yourself. I was married 24 years and at no point did the boys accept me. It only got worse as they became older. This is no way to live. If you find yourself going down this road do yourself a favor and pull away. This is not the only man in the sea.


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## Ursula

@DownByTheRiver -- Just to clarify, she talks baby talk all the time, not just to the dogs, but to her Dad and I, her sister, grandparents, friends, it doesn't seem to matter who's present, she talks baby talk. For the record, I talk baby talk to my dogs all the bloody time too, and I think everyone that I know talks like a goofball to their pets.

I absolutely agree that she's going to want everyone in the family to know how she's feeling, and I know that she talking to her mother and sister about this. They are probably telling her to stand up for what she wants, and hence, the attitude. Her mother has put interesting ideas in her head all the time (if you ride the school bus, you're going to get kidnapped, if you ride your bike to school, you'll get assulted, for a couple examples).

I'm 44 and was much the same as you in way of entertaining myself; my sister was also like this, so this intense clinginess is really odd to me. I craved freedom, and to be away from my parent's grasp!

No, I have no influence on how she's raised, but I was hoping to be a strong role model for her, and eventually her friend and someone she can trust. BF and his XW do have a childcare schedule: 1 week on, 1 week off, but it's pretty loose. TBH, her mother isn't much of a mother and has been known to not bother looking after either of her kids when she's supposed to, so BF ends up having his youngest more than he should; it's more like a 60/40 or a 70/30 split some weeks. Yes, that has made dating difficult at times, especially given that we've never lived super close to each other. When I moved in with him, it was to a town about 50 minutes away from my home.

@Openminded -- Yes, he has in the past taken the path of least resistance, and still on occasion does. He has gotten MUCH better at setting boundaries and keeping to house rules, but I think that all just started too late in her life to stick. 

About the sleeping arrangements, yes, I told him that I absolutely would NOT move in with him if she were still sharing his bed. So, he started weaning her off of it about a year ago. As far as I know, she's been in her own bed consistently for months now, but yes, she probably resents it, and equates all of the changes to me.

Given the leeway she's had up until fairly recently, I'll guess that it will be quite awhile to get her on a different path that she is also happy with. I won't be going to my folk's place, or anywhere else to stay; like BF said, my home is with him and his youngest now, and that's where I'm staying. 

@Livvie, I'm hoping and praying that now that's she's in 6th grade, with other kids who are probably a little more mature than her, that maturity will rub off, and take hold on her as well. It's so weird, she's so mature in some ways and in others, it's like she's 3 or 4 again. She goes all the time to get her nails done, and not just painted; gel or acryllic. She has WAY nicer nails than most adults I know!

@She'sStillGotIt -- I'm 44 and desperately wanted a family, but extenuating circumstances prevented that from happening, and so the next best thing was building a life with someone who has kids. Not that I was looking only for Dad's, but if who I clicked with happened to be one, then that was a bonus. However, I did learn fast that it wasn't simple at all. BF did say at one point that if his daughter were a boy, it would be much different, but she's a Daddy's girl.

@AVR1962 -- Well, that sounds like a challenge, and I'm sorry that you went through that. And no, BF isn't the only man in the sea, but he's a damn good man, and those are really, really hard to find.


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## DownByTheRiver

Have you ever heard the way her mother or sister talks? The only reason I'm curious is because I did have a friend in high school who talked kind of baby talk. I mean she wasn't doing W's for her Rs or anything like that, but all the women in the family, the two girls and the mother, all talked in this real high babyish voice and so I knew where they got it.


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## DownByTheRiver

How old was she when she was sexually abused? Because that is most likely to be the age she has regressed to and compartmentalized and kept a part that young, which would be her voice among other things. I can't imagine a divorce making her that way but certainly sexual assault could.

I read this first many decades ago when I was reading all of Freud's case histories, but here is Dr Drew Penske discussing it. 





__





Child abuse affects voice of victims







www.washingtontimes.com


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## Openminded

It’s not too common for a daddy’s girl to ever really outgrow that plus he’s encouraged her dependency a lot more than he should have. So, yes, her resentment will take a lot of time and energy and effort to try to overcome, assuming that she can make that happen, and if she’s hearing negative stuff from her mom that just reinforces the problem. Not to mention she hasn’t even hit the teenage years yet. That alone is tough without all the other stuff. I would say be cautiously optimistic but very realistic.


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## Lotsofheart73

@Ursula 
Based on that you have posted you seem to be level headed about this and doing a good job at being “understanding” with the daughter situation. I say keep doing what your you’re doing and the daughter will come around or not. You’ve spent a while planning this big step with your bf and you must have known kinda how the daughter behaved so I don’t think there’s really anything for you to do other be yourself and continue being the level headed one because it sounds like her mom is not that way at all. 
It won’t be this way for long. In a year or two the daughter will probably be a lot different anyway.
Hopefully for the better but who knows??

And please don’t let someone make you believe your bf is morally wrong for helping daughter out of the tub. Geez. It’s her dad. And I would think that by 11 she would’ve already told dad she didn’t need help but every family is different. Those are the things he can start pushing her to move forward with without it being something huge and dramatic change. He can easily just say “hey daughter, you can finished up bath time yourself now because I’m going to start doing X during this time (something like cleaning the kitchen, walking the dog, closing up garage for night etc) and see what happens.

Anyway, I wish you luck and I’m glad to hear you are giving this a try. Sounds like this girl can use a sensible lady around even if she doesn’t realize it or think she does.


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## Diana7

Ursula said:


> Hey @Livvie, in answer to your questions:
> 
> She CAN actually speak normally when asked to use her "big girl words", or when I questioningly repeat something that she says that doesn't make sense, she will repeat it back correctly. I don't know if she speaks like that in school, but I'm hoping now that she's in grade 6, that she will learn from the other students. She's big on what's cool and what's not. She is a fantastic student though, and gets really good grades and has won awards for her achievements as well.
> 
> Yes, I agree about the bathtub, although he doesn't bathe her, just helps her out of the tub. Oh, and she also goes into the same cubicle as him when they change into swimwear at our local public pool.
> 
> I'm not sure that she'd be developmentally delayed, but I do think that she's emotionally stunted. I've had the thought that maybe she talks like a toddler because that is the last time that she was truly happy and in what she thought was a happy family, and so she resorts back to that time?
> 
> She can entertain herself, but only with her iPad; nothing else seems to be enough to entertain her on her own.


I agree with you that she is emotionally very immature. I have 2 daughters who had also been through tough things who weren't like that. It does sounds as if her dad has spoilt her and babied her, sharing a bed at 11 and having to have her dad get her out of the bath at that age seems just odd. 
You can only do your best, play it by ear and take a day at a time. 
Hopefully with time things will improve as she accepts the situation. 

My girls were older when I met Mr D, they took a fair time to accept another man in their lives and for a while things were difficult, but now they really get on well.


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## Ursula

DownByTheRiver said:


> Have you ever heard the way her mother or sister talks? The only reason I'm curious is because I did have a friend in high school who talked kind of baby talk. I mean she wasn't doing W's for her Rs or anything like that, but all the women in the family, the two girls and the mother, all talked in this real high babyish voice and so I knew where they got it.


You bet, neither of them baby talk.


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## Ursula

DownByTheRiver said:


> How old was she when she was sexually abused? Because that is most likely to be the age she has regressed to and compartmentalized and kept a part that young, which would be her voice among other things. I can't imagine a divorce making her that way but certainly sexual assault could.
> 
> I read this first many decades ago when I was reading all of Freud's case histories, but here is Dr Drew Penske discussing it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Child abuse affects voice of victims
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.washingtontimes.com


I believe that it happened a couple years ago, when she was 9, almost 10. She will be 12 at the end of the year this year.


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## Ursula

Openminded said:


> It’s not too common for a daddy’s girl to ever really outgrow that plus he’s encouraged her dependency a lot more than he should have. So, yes, her resentment will take a lot of time and energy and effort to try to overcome, assuming that she can make that happen, and if she’s hearing negative stuff from her mom that just reinforces the problem. Not to mention she hasn’t even hit the teenage years yet. That alone is tough without all the other stuff. *I would say be cautiously optimistic but very realistic.*


That sounds about right!


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## Ursula

Lotsofheart73 said:


> @Ursula
> Based on that you have posted you seem to be level headed about this and doing a good job at being “understanding” with the daughter situation. I say keep doing what your you’re doing and the daughter will come around or not. You’ve spent a while planning this big step with your bf and you must have known kinda how the daughter behaved so I don’t think there’s really anything for you to do other be yourself and continue being the level headed one because it sounds like her mom is not that way at all.
> It won’t be this way for long. In a year or two the daughter will probably be a lot different anyway. Hopefully for the better but who knows??
> 
> And please don’t let someone make you believe your bf is morally wrong for helping daughter out of the tub. Geez. It’s her dad. And I would think that by 11 she would’ve already told dad she didn’t need help but every family is different. Those are the things he can start pushing her to move forward with without it being something huge and dramatic change. He can easily just say “hey daughter, you can finished up bath time yourself now because I’m going to start doing X during this time (something like cleaning the kitchen, walking the dog, closing up garage for night etc) and see what happens.
> 
> Anyway, I wish you luck and I’m glad to hear you are giving this a try. Sounds like this girl can use a sensible lady around even if she doesn’t realize it or think she does.


Thanks, and yes I knew a bit of what I was getting into long ago, which is why her Dad and I started talking about and planning my move about a year in advance. It doesn't come as a surprise at all, but what I do find a little surprising is that we had such an awesome week together that first week, and then bam, she's done! I mean, the one evening on the first weekend, she was upset that her friend was over, and had instead wanted to spend a quiet evening with her Dad and I having a backyard fire. Remaining cautiously hopeful here.


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## DownByTheRiver

Ursula said:


> I believe that it happened a couple years ago, when she was 9, almost 10. She will be 12 at the end of the year this year.


That's weird, then, because her sexual abuse doesn't explain it -- unless she had some earlier no one knows about. Why don't you ask Dad if he knows of anything that happened when she was younger.


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## Livvie

Lotsofheart73 said:


> @Ursula
> Based on that you have posted you seem to be level headed about this and doing a good job at being “understanding” with the daughter situation. I say keep doing what your you’re doing and the daughter will come around or not. You’ve spent a while planning this big step with your bf and you must have known kinda how the daughter behaved so I don’t think there’s really anything for you to do other be yourself and continue being the level headed one because it sounds like her mom is not that way at all.
> It won’t be this way for long. In a year or two the daughter will probably be a lot different anyway.
> Hopefully for the better but who knows??
> 
> And please don’t let someone make you believe your bf is morally wrong for helping daughter out of the tub. Geez. It’s her dad. And I would think that by 11 she would’ve already told dad she didn’t need help but every family is different. Those are the things he can start pushing her to move forward with without it being something huge and dramatic change. He can easily just say “hey daughter, you can finished up bath time yourself now because I’m going to start doing X during this time (something like cleaning the kitchen, walking the dog, closing up garage for night etc) and see what happens.
> 
> Anyway, I wish you luck and I’m glad to hear you are giving this a try. Sounds like this girl can use a sensible lady around even if she doesn’t realize it or think she does.


Nope nope nope nope and nope. Dad helping a close to 12 year old out of the bathtub?? No.


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## Openminded

Livvie said:


> Nope nope nope nope and nope. Dad helping a close to 12 year old out of the bathtub?? No.


Some things just don’t need to be done and that one is way up there.


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## Beach123

Ursula said:


> Honestly, yes, this is so sad. The divorce affected her no doubt, and she would love for her parents to get back together. However, with her mother high or drunk much of the time, that won't be happening. Thankfully she has stopped doing and dealing cocaine though. 🙏 I also think that there are other factors that contributed to her current state though (abuse by her cousin, and just the fact that she's been mostly in control of her Dad's household for the past few years, and has started to have boundaries enforced on her in the past few months, and she also doesn't like not having that control anymore). And I don't blame her either, if I put myself in her shoes, I'd be ticked right off.


If I were that little girl - I’d be really ticked off that Daddy moved in another lady that takes time and attention away from me - a little girl!
Move out! Let him have the next seven years or more to finish raising his daughter! He should be fighting for full custody - but he isn’t - he leaves her with his ex who is drunk or high! No wonder she acts like a baby! Her home life isn’t right!


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## Beach123

Why hasn’t he had a speech therapist work with her? My son had speech therapy as a five year old. Now she has developed bad habits. 
the things you have mentioned do NOT show him as a “good dad”. A good dad protects their child and provides them with opportunities to be their best!
Having the child at the Mons house is atrocious - if she is drunk then take away all time with a drunk Mom!


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## Livvie

Beach123 said:


> If I were that little girl - I’d be really ticked off that Daddy moved in another lady that takes time and attention away from me - a little girl!
> Move out! Let him have the next seven years or more to finish raising his daughter! He should be fighting for full custody - but he isn’t - he leaves her with his ex who is drunk or high! No wonder she acts like a baby! Her home life isn’t right!


Really? 

Daddy shouldn't share his time and attention with anyone else, not "a lady" that takes time and attention away from her? 

Huh. What about all of the daddies in the world who are married?????

Should they all get divorced so that a "lady" isn't taking daddy's time and attention away from the daughters?

Newsflash: Adults aren't made to direct ALL of their time and attention, for 18 years, to their children. Adults, yes even adults who have children, are allowed to have other adult life partners. Shocker!

Children aren't meant to be the sole life partner of a parent, that's not healthy and it's kind of gross.


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## Beach123

I don’t agree with her moving in at this time. She has a a daughter who needs help. He needs to help her overcome her lisp and also to get her professional help about the abuse she sustained. Also the toxic homelife with the ex wife… so yes, I think the OP needs to move out and plan to date the OP - not live in the home while this child is in such turmoil. 
He had kids - the kids come first! At least while they are young - the GF comes second.


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## Livvie

Beach123 said:


> I don’t agree with her moving in at this time. She has a a daughter who needs help. He needs to help her overcome her lisp and also to get her professional help about the abuse she sustained. Also the toxic homelife with the ex wife… so yes, I think the OP needs to move out and plan to date the OP - not live in the home while this child is in such turmoil.
> He had kids - the kids come first! At least while they are young - the GF comes second.


It's not a lisp. It's deliberate baby talk.

He's tried to get her counseling.

They have dated for 3.5 years. At a certain point, the man gets to have an adult life partner. 

Having a partner doesn't stop the child from getting speech and counseling services.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

It's hard to imagine why neither one of the parents are still actively working to find out why and stop her speech habit. It's also hard to believe that her peers haven't shamed ger out of it yet.


----------



## Beach123

Livvie said:


> It's not a lisp. It's deliberate baby talk.
> 
> He's tried to get her counseling.
> 
> They have dated for 3.5 years. At a certain point, the man gets to have an adult life partner.
> 
> Having a partner doesn't stop the child from getting speech and counseling services.


i never said don’t have an adult life partner - I said she shouldn’t live there.
He should wait until the daughter gets older to live with him.
There’s nothing wrong with dating him until then.


----------



## heartsbeating

I’ve not read all responses yet. Just throwing out an idea though - and no, I have no direct experience with this whatsoever - but any chance you and your boyfriend could attend ‘parenting’ (modelling, learning, whatever makes you feel comfortable in how to view that) type therapy together? As in, learning tools / training of how to best support her and your home life together?


----------



## Livvie

Beach123 said:


> i never said don’t have an adult life partner - I said she shouldn’t live there.
> He should wait until the daughter gets older to live with him.
> There’s nothing wrong with dating him until then.


It's not really a "life partner" if you don't live together. I think after almost 4 years of dating it was an appropriate time to finally move in together. 

So you didn't answer my question, should all the dads in the world get divorced so they are only living with their daughters and not any other woman, too?


----------



## Cynthia

First off, laying down the law with this girl has to come from her father, not you. The parent makes the rules and then helps the child navigate through them, especially if they are difficult or uncomfortable. This little girl needs to be parented. She is not her father’s partner and should not be allowed to rule the roost as she has been. But this is what she’s been taught. She hasn’t been allowed to really be a little girl, which is probably why she is acting like a baby. She has had way too much responsibility for a child.

She will need gentle and loving boundaries explained and implemented. She will need a lot of help from her father to get through this and to build a healthy relationship with you.



Ursula said:


> In no way to I expect an 11 year old to change in order to accommodate me! Wowie, I'm so sorry that you got that from my post! I have some hopes, but zero expectations. And, I have no problem making myself scarce when she's around, and even offered to stay with my folks for a few days so that they can have some Daddy-daughter time.


This is setting a terrible precedent. You have been there less than a month and you are already walking on eggshells. Leaving your home is not a good boundary. This girl needs to know in no uncertain terms that you live there and she is going to have to get used to it. This should not come from you. Your partner should explain to his daughter that this is where all three of you live and you are all going to work together to make it a healthy, happy, and safe environment for everyone.



Ursula said:


> Honestly, yes, this is so sad. The divorce affected her no doubt, and she would love for her parents to get back together. However, with her mother high or drunk much of the time, that won't be happening. Thankfully she has stopped doing and dealing cocaine though. 🙏 I also think that there are other factors that contributed to her current state though (abuse by her cousin, and just the fact that she's been mostly in control of her Dad's household for the past few years, and has started to have boundaries enforced on her in the past few months, and she also doesn't like not having that control anymore). And I don't blame her either, if I put myself in her shoes, I'd be ticked right off.


Why is she staying with an addict? Was this the decision of the courts? Why is she being allowed to make this decision? Why has she had control of her dad’s household? Did her immature behaviors start since you moved in or was this already happening?



Ursula said:


> Daddy's girl = yes, big time, and yes he has indulged that over the past few years as well.


She has lost unlimited access to her dad and is seeing it as directly due to you. This should have been dealt with before you moved in and should not have been correlated to you at all. This is something that will have to be worked through. You have literally replaced her as woman of the house as well as replacing her in her father’s bed. This is not healthy and it’s messing with the girl’s mind. All of this should have been dealt with months before you moved in to prepare her, to set healthy boundaries, and so this would not be seen as having anything to do with you. Now that will have to be remedied. It’s going to take a huge amount of loving patience and building healthy boundaries in order for her to be okay.



Ursula said:


> Friend-wise, she doesn't have many. I think this is partly because of being bopped from Mom's house to Dad's house, and she also went to a not-so-great school last year; she has switched schools this year. I also feel like it has something to do with her moods; when her one friend was over, his daughter locked herself in her bedroom, and her friend hung out with me, helping me make lunches, and she commented on how his daughter was cranky.


This little girl has been spoiled and sounds like she is allowed to behave in an entitled manner. It’s very unhealthy for her. Her father hasn’t done her any favors by raising her this way. For the sake of the child, things have got to change or you are in for many difficult years ahead, especially when she reaches adolescence.



Ursula said:


> She still plays with toys: that cash register thing she found downstairs, she has her dolly that she pushes around in a stroller, and she LOVES fidgets.


The baby talk is not normal or healthy. She should be evaluated by a professional asap. The longer this goes on, the more difficult it is to deal with. She should be moving into new developmental stages. This behavior seems to have become ingrained and may be difficult to root out. The longer it goes on, the harder it will be to address and resolve.



Ursula said:


> I'm also thinking that the "spreading of the wings" will come a little later. And just to clarify, I'm not really surprised by her behaviour; I've seen her at her best and worst over the past 3.5 years, so I know how she can be. I was just hoping for otherwise, especially given that our first week altogether was fantastic. A couple months before moving in, her grandpa told me that if she's in a bad mood, don't let it affect me, and to just ignore her.


Ignoring her bad moods is probably a good idea. If she becomes rude, tell her that you won’t be treated like that and move away from her, but don’t leave the house. If she feels that she can run you out of the house, again she will be ruling the roost. Allowing this bad behavior and attitude this teaches her manipulation and control.



Ursula said:


> It had been suggested by her Dad that her and I should go spend some time together, and then that came to a crashing halt when she told her Dad that she no longer wanted me to move in. No reasons, just a big nope. I didn't feel comfortable pushing anything, so her Dad and I backed off. She ended up coming around to the idea of me moving in, and said that she would give it a month's chance. Maybe once things settle down a little and she settles into her new classes and school, we can revisit that.


The girl said she’d give it a month’s chance? What does that even mean? What if she doesn’t want you there? Then what? Why is this child being given this kind of responsibility and power in the home? She should be told that she doesn’t have the option to live with her mother instead of her father. He should pick her up and bring her to his home when it is her time to be there. He should speak to her gently and not engage in argument or anger. State the facts and see how he can help her to work through this.

I also don’t think tucking kids in is a problem unless she can’t get to sleep without him lying next to her. She needs to learn how to fall asleep on her own without fear or discomfort. He can talk her through it and work with her over a period of a few weeks.



Ursula said:


> She CAN actually speak normally when asked to use her "big girl words", or when I questioningly repeat something that she says that doesn't make sense, she will repeat it back correctly. I don't know if she speaks like that in school, but I'm hoping now that she's in grade 6, that she will learn from the other students. She's big on what's cool and what's not. She is a fantastic student though, and gets really good grades and has won awards for her achievements as well.


I’d tell her that I can’t understand baby talk, so please speak normally. I wouldn’t use the phrase “big girl words,” as that is like speaking to a toddler.



Ursula said:


> Yes, I agree about the bathtub, although he doesn't bathe her, just helps her out of the tub. Oh, and she also goes into the same cubicle as him when they change into swimwear at our local public pool.


Helping an eleven-year-old out of the bath is not good. If she thinks she’s going to fall, a hand hold should be installed and the bottom of the tub should have slip resistant strips or a mat. They should also not be changing into swimsuits together at her age. It’s not healthy. There seem to be some serious boundary issues that can really mess with her mind.



Ursula said:


> She can entertain herself, but only with her iPad; nothing else seems to be enough to entertain her on her own.


This is something that takes time to teach. This doesn’t come naturally. She has to be taught. You said she gets good grades, so she should be able to learn this with some assistance.



Ursula said:


> BF supports me and stands up for our relationship, 100%, and has demonstrated that more than once. I know that we're solid. I also know that issues with the kids can destroy a relationship. Yes, it's an exciting step, and it was necessary for us as a couple too. We saw each other 2-3 times every second week, which was taking a toll. I've met their bio Mom once, and while she seems nice, I know that she also can be pretty... interesting. I know that BF mentioned their daughter's attitude to her at one point a couple months ago, and said that it was probably to do with us planning a move-in. BF's XW actually sided with us (gasp), and talked to their daughter on our behalf.


No member of the household should ever be pitted against another. Standing up for you should be in the form of taking her aside and talking to her about how we treat others with respect and love. This along with helping her to learn how to face and work through her emotions in a healthy manner.

I recommend you two read “Facing Codependence: What it is, Where it Comes From, How it Sabotages Our Lives. Reading it together could be very helpful. This book demonstrates what a healthy relationship looks like. I believe it could be of great value to your situation. There is also an audio version.

I believe this situation can be resolved, but your BF is going to have to step up and be a dad, not a buddy or a partner, to his daughter. This is going to be a bit difficult for him to transition, especially since he really needs to help his daughter through the process while teaching her how to open up and work through problems as they come.


----------



## Ursula

Livvie said:


> Nope nope nope nope and nope. Dad helping a close to 12 year old out of the bathtub?? No.


OK, so this came down to a communication issue on our parts. He did tell me a couple of years ago that he "helped her out of the tub". To me, that means that he scoops her up and lifts her out of the tub; in reality he puts a towel around her and she gets out on her own. I'm not sure how much better that is, but at least there's no scooping or drying her off.


----------



## Ursula

Beach123 said:


> If I were that little girl - I’d be really ticked off that Daddy moved in another lady that takes time and attention away from me - a little girl!
> 
> Move out! Let him have the next seven years or more to finish raising his daughter! He should be fighting for full custody - but he isn’t - he leaves her with his ex who is drunk or high! No wonder she acts like a baby! Her home life isn’t right!


I agree that her @home life with her mother isn't calm and steady. However, if I move back out and we go to just dating long distance for the next 7 years, we will not make it as a couple. It was 3.5 years of having about an hour's commute between our home, and we saw each other 2-3 times every second week. That is not enough time when trying to build a life and a future together. Plus, his daughter isn't the tiny little girl you make her sound like; she's 11 years old. And, if I move out, where do I go live? I've rented my own home out for a year (there's a signed contract), am I to be a 44 year old who moves back in with her parents, towing 14 and 15 year old dogs along? I know you're passionate about your reasoning, but it's just not that easy-peasy.


----------



## Ursula

Beach123 said:


> Why hasn’t he had a speech therapist work with her? My son had speech therapy as a five year old. Now she has developed bad habits.
> 
> the things you have mentioned do NOT show him as a “good dad”. A good dad protects their child and provides them with opportunities to be their best!
> 
> Having the child at the Mons house is atrocious - if she is drunk then take away all time with a drunk Mom!


Perhaps because she doesn't need a speech therapist; her baby talk is of her own choosing, and she can speak with perfectly normal pronounciation. He is a very good Dad, and he protects both of his children very well, as well as providing every available oppotunity for them to shine.

I wish his youngest WOULD come live with us full-time; ours is a stable household with 2 loving, mentally and emotionally stable people living in it. We love each other very much, and his youngest can see that in the way that we behave towards one another. We are exhibiting to her what a healthy relationship should look like, and that's a good thing. Her mother also has a BF, and they drink and smoke pot together. 

However, that being said, taking a child away from her mother is harder than you probably think. That woman is her Mom; she will always be her Mom no matter how messed up she is. And youngest daughter tries her damndest to gain her approval all the time. That's also what I did with my own mother up until I was 43. That's when I finally realized that it was pointless. It took therapy in my adult years to finally figure it out. And that's what youngest daughter will also probably experience, until she also figures it out. Can BF go to court to have his daughter taken away? Sure. Is that what his daughter wants? Nope.


----------



## Ursula

DownByTheRiver said:


> It's hard to imagine why neither one of the parents are still actively working to find out why and stop her speech habit. It's also hard to believe that her peers haven't shamed ger out of it yet.


BF has corrected her in the past, but she does it almost all the time, and so he would be constantly correctling her. I also think that at this point, they don't notice it so much because of how often she speaks like that. I do because I haven't been around a ton. I would imagine though that since she's in grade 6 now, her peers at school will pick up on it and make her aware of it.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Ursula said:


> BF has corrected her in the past, but she does it almost all the time, and so he would be constantly correctling her. I also think that at this point, they don't notice it so much because of how often she speaks like that. I do because I haven't been around a ton. I would imagine though that since she's in grade 6 now, her peers at school will pick up on it and make her aware of it.


She really needs counseling for that. I don't think he realizes that because he probably still thinks of her is his little bitty baby girl. But she's almost a teen.


----------



## Openminded

He really doesn’t need to be going into the bathroom to wrap a towel around her. She’s 11 years old and can manage her own towel. My grandsons didn’t want me overseeing baths/showers beyond five. Of course, that meant I sometimes had to send them back in there for another round of it but I still respected their privacy. The question is why, at 11, she doesn’t have a sense of privacy. If she isn’t physically developing already, she soon will be — and then what. He can’t continue to pretend she’s a little girl. Those days are gone. His boundaries obviously still need a lot of work. I’d bet she’d still be sleeping with him if you hadn’t moved in. All of this was unfortunately predictable since you first began talking about moving in with him. She took control long ago and she’s unlikely now to let go easily. Maybe try family counseling.


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## harperlee

There isn't a licensed, reputable psychologist on the face of earth that would think it is ok for a child who has been sexually assaulted to sleep in bed with daddy or have daddy put her out of her bath.
I realize that I am not being gentle or perhaps not informed of a long history.
Teachers do flag and send students to speech therapy as a part of curriculum.
As an objective reader, Red Flags.


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## DownByTheRiver

Does she keep up with her class? I mean, has anyone checked to see if she's developmentally behind?


----------



## Ursula

Cynthia said:


> First off, laying down the law with this girl has to come from her father, not you. The parent makes the rules and then helps the child navigate through them, especially if they are difficult or uncomfortable. This little girl needs to be parented. She is not her father’s partner and should not be allowed to rule the roost as she has been. But this is what she’s been taught. She hasn’t been allowed to really be a little girl, which is probably why she is acting like a baby. She has had way too much responsibility for a child.


Ding, ding, ding, you hit the nail right on the head with this!



Cynthia said:


> She will need gentle and loving boundaries explained and implemented. She will need a lot of help from her father to get through this and to build a healthy relationship with you.


I agree with this, and he's trying to help her through this.



Cynthia said:


> This is setting a terrible precedent. You have been there less than a month and you are already walking on eggshells. Leaving your home is not a good boundary. This girl needs to know in no uncertain terms that you live there and she is going to have to get used to it. This should not come from you. Your partner should explain to his daughter that this is where all three of you live and you are all going to work together to make it a healthy, happy, and safe environment for everyone.


I will not be leaving the home to go stay elsewhere or to make myself scarce. Her Dad has told her that that is my home now, that I'm not going anywhere, and that it is a healthy and happy environment for her to thrive in.



Cynthia said:


> Why is she staying with an addict? Was this the decision of the courts? Why is she being allowed to make this decision? Why has she had control of her dad’s household? Did her immature behaviors start since you moved in or was this already happening?


It was the decision of the courts so far as I know. They went to court to get their custody arrangement done. But, I know that her mother's isn't the greatest environment, and so she has spent more time at her Dad's. She's had control of her Dad's household in the past because he let her have it. He felt guilty for leaving their family, and didn't want to further disappoint her, so he pretty much let her have and do what she wanted, and to also manipulate and control him to a point. The immature behaviours have been since I met her back in 2019; she has baby talked since then, although that has gotten worse, but she's always been very demanding and entitled.



Cynthia said:


> She has lost unlimited access to her dad and is seeing it as directly due to you. This should have been dealt with before you moved in and should not have been correlated to you at all. This is something that will have to be worked through. You have literally replaced her as woman of the house as well as replacing her in her father’s bed. This is not healthy and it’s messing with the girl’s mind. All of this should have been dealt with months before you moved in to prepare her, to set healthy boundaries, and so this would not be seen as having anything to do with you. Now that will have to be remedied. It’s going to take a huge amount of loving patience and building healthy boundaries in order for her to be okay.


I agree with this, she is seeing that her unlimited access to her Dad is because of me. He's tried dealing with stuff like this well before I moved in, but because it's been so engrained in her, she's had a hard time with adjusting her ways, plus she's only 11, so she probably really doesn't get it or care to get it, she wants what she wants because she's a kid. Her Dad has been setting healthy boundaries for the last while, but it's been hard on him and on her. Sometimes he still gives in just to save himself a fight.



Cynthia said:


> This little girl has been spoiled and sounds like she is allowed to behave in an entitled manner. It’s very unhealthy for her. Her father hasn’t done her any favors by raising her this way. For the sake of the child, things have got to change or you are in for many difficult years ahead, especially when she reaches adolescence.


I agree, no favours were done by this, and last year, I actually told BF that he's probably done more harm than good by raising her this way.



Cynthia said:


> The baby talk is not normal or healthy. She should be evaluated by a professional asap. The longer this goes on, the more difficult it is to deal with. She should be moving into new developmental stages. This behavior seems to have become ingrained and may be difficult to root out. The longer it goes on, the harder it will be to address and resolve.


I've recently mentioned to BF about getting her evaluated just to make sure that she's OK, as I don't think the baby talk is normal at this age either. And I agree, the longer it goes on, the harder it will be to put a stop to it.



Cynthia said:


> Ignoring her bad moods is probably a good idea. If she becomes rude, tell her that you won’t be treated like that and move away from her, but don’t leave the house. If she feels that she can run you out of the house, again she will be ruling the roost. Allowing this bad behavior and attitude this teaches her manipulation and control.


Yup, this is what I'm going to do, and not take it personally. She's also not going to run me out of my own home.



Cynthia said:


> The girl said she’d give it a month’s chance? What does that even mean? What if she doesn’t want you there? Then what? Why is this child being given this kind of responsibility and power in the home? She should be told that she doesn’t have the option to live with her mother instead of her father. He should pick her up and bring her to his home when it is her time to be there. He should speak to her gently and not engage in argument or anger. State the facts and see how he can help her to work through this.


Initially she didn't want me to move in, but wouldn't tell her Dad why. He tried to talk to her about it, but she would either shut down or get really mad and shut him down. Eventually she said that she'd give it a day once I move in, and then that turned into a month.



Cynthia said:


> I also don’t think tucking kids in is a problem unless she can’t get to sleep without him lying next to her. She needs to learn how to fall asleep on her own without fear or discomfort. He can talk her through it and work with her over a period of a few weeks.


Apparently, she cannot get to sleep without him there.



Cynthia said:


> I’d tell her that I can’t understand baby talk, so please speak normally. I wouldn’t use the phrase “big girl words,” as that is like speaking to a toddler.


I've actually told her that I can't understand her baby talk, and she said that she doesn't talk like a baby, and got quite offended. BF suggested that I use the term "big girl words".



Cynthia said:


> Helping an eleven-year-old out of the bath is not good. If she thinks she’s going to fall, a hand hold should be installed and the bottom of the tub should have slip resistant strips or a mat. They should also not be changing into swimsuits together at her age. It’s not healthy. There seem to be some serious boundary issues that can really mess with her mind.


I agree.



Cynthia said:


> This is something that takes time to teach. This doesn’t come naturally. She has to be taught. You said she gets good grades, so she should be able to learn this with some assistance.


Agree here too. The clinginess is a little much. I had a friend come over today, and in three initial 10 mins that she doesn't with us (first time she met the daughter), she noticed that she's didn't let her Dad get too far away.



Cynthia said:


> No member of the household should ever be pitted against another. Standing up for you should be in the form of taking her aside and talking to her about how we treat others with respect and love. This along with helping her to learn how to face and work through her emotions in a healthy manner.


This is exactly what he does, takes her aside to explain things to her, although she really doesn't know how to handle her emotions in a healthy manner



Cynthia said:


> I recommend you two read “Facing Codependence: What it is, Where it Comes From, How it Sabotages Our Lives. Reading it together could be very helpful. This book demonstrates what a healthy relationship looks like. I believe it could be of great value to your situation. There is also an audio version.


I'm going to look into this book, thanks!



Cynthia said:


> I believe this situation can be resolved, but your BF is going to have to step up and be a dad, not a buddy or a partner, to his daughter. This is going to be a bit difficult for him to transition, especially since he really needs to help his daughter through the process while teaching her how to open up and work through problems as they come.


He actually calls his youngest daughter "Buddy", which I think is cute. But he does need to step up as a Dad and be a stronger parental figure. She truly does run over him, and it's only going to get worse. It's going to be really tough to get her too open up to him, as she's pretty much a closed book to him when problems arise. She's more prone to just shut down.


----------



## Ursula

DownByTheRiver said:


> Does she keep up with her class? I mean, has anyone checked to see if she's developmentally behind?


she's an excellent student, and is able to keep up. There are subjects she struggles with and ones she excels at, much like all students, I'd imagine. I think she's developmentally behind for sure, but more in the maturity department.


----------



## Ursula

Okay, update: daughter came back to stay with us Thursday evening, and has been here ever since. Her and her Dad had a day for the two of them today, and I've been invited by her to join them tomorrow. Baby steps! I'm glad she's back, but am also wary.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Glad that didn't last long.


----------



## Livvie

Ursula said:


> Okay, update: daughter came back to stay with us Thursday evening, and has been here ever since. Her and her Dad had a day for the two of them today, and I've been invited by her to join them tomorrow. Baby steps! I'm glad she's back, but am also wary.


You've been invited by her - to spend the day with your own partner? Who you live with?

Ursula.... this isn't good.


----------



## Cynthia

Ursula said:


> I've actually told her that I can't understand her baby talk, and she said that she doesn't talk like a baby, and got quite offended. BF suggested that I use the term "big girl words".


You weren’t being offensive. I see two possibilities. One is that she doesn’t even notice that she is baby talking. The other is that this is a manipulation tactic where she becomes offended when she is called on something. Both can be handled the same way, but the baby talk does need to be addressed.

Since you are trying to converse with her and she isn’t communicating clearly with you, it is reasonable that you would talk to her about the baby talk. This isn’t parenting her. It is you telling her that there is a problem with communication that isn’t on your end that needs to be resolved.

I would explain that she is not articulating her words clearly. I’d tell her that articulating means to pronounce words clearly. When she doesn’t articulate clearly, you cannot understand her. She needs to be aware that it is hindering her ability to communicate with you. Something like, “Please slow down and speak clearly so I can understand what you’re saying.”



Ursula said:


> Okay, update: daughter came back to stay with us Thursday evening, and has been here ever since. Her and her Dad had a day for the two of them today, and I've been invited by her to join them tomorrow. Baby steps! I'm glad she's back, but am also wary.


It’s right to be wary, but remember that she is a child and she doesn’t know that her behavior is unhealthy and isn’t doing her any good. She needs a lot of grace with firm, clear boundaries. Hopefully over time she will open up to you and you two can become good friends.

She and her dad had two days planned out for just the two of them and she invited you to join them. That does sound like a step in the right direction. She was given a promise and she is sharing it with you. I’d say that’s a good thing.

These issues are not going to be resolved overnight. There is a lot going on and, even in the best of circumstances, it would be difficult for her to accept you into her home. She is blessed that you are a gracious, loving person who wants what is best for her. Keep holding clear, firm, loving boundaries and you’ll work through this.

Even though you are not her parent, you are interacting with her and do have the authority to navigate through your relationship with her through good communication and firm boundaries. You have a relationship with her and you can’t be expected for her to be in control of the relationship. Any healthy relationship has two people working together with the best interests of both parties.


----------



## heartsbeating

Just another non-experienced suggestion around the baby talk. Could there be opportunity for you to praise her when she _doesn't_ do it? Essentially, trying to positively reinforce in a way that could provide her with reassurance - and does not come across as condescending to her?


----------



## Ursula

Livvie said:


> You've been invited by her - to spend the day with your own partner? Who you live with?
> 
> Ursula.... this isn't good.


I guess I'm thinking that an invite by her means that she actually wants me there, whereas if I just go along, I'm there more with my partner than as a cohesive family unit. Not sure if that makes as much sense here as it does in my head.


----------



## In Absentia

Just trying to see the situation from an 11 year old POV (I think I remember when I was 11... ): I would totally hate and I would be totally heartbroken and devastated if my parents split up and my mummy was replaced by another woman in my family home. Maybe we should remember this? Not blaming anybody - so don't shoot me  - just trying to give a different perspective...


----------



## Ursula

So, BF and I chatted more about this on Monday, which was a holiday here. Initially, she was going to be staying with us for an extra day this week (usually makes the house switch on Sundays), but she wanted her sick Dad to set up her trampoline, and her Dad told her again that he wasn't feeling well, and that he wouldn't be setting up the trampoline. She didn't like that, and she wanted to go back with her mother. So then she ends up coming back Monday because her mother's boyfriend's mom passed away. 

BF and I chatted about her speech. He said he doesn't hear her mispronouncing words, but will be more attuned to it. He said that she will always be the baby that he saw being born, and that he would do anything for her. I get that, really I do. I just see other things going on too, and I see it objectively because I'm not her parent. The conversation ended with him saying that maybe the way she says my name is a "cute nickname". I explained that a cute nickname is something totally different and that she says my name with a W for the L in it, and that's a mispronouciation. I said that maybe if she enunciated everything else correctly, then maybe I'd consider my mispronounced name cute, but I just really don't.

@heartsbeating, I like your suggestion of praising her when she DOES pronounce things right. I also may let her know that she is saying my name incorrectly.

@In Absentia, yes, I do get that, but I really don't see me as being a replacement, I see my being in their life as an addition. Her mother is still in her life and always will be. Her mother also has a BF. However, putting myself in her shoes, yes, I would be devastated that my folks split up. On the flip-side, this is something that's very common, and if all divorced parents stayed single for their kids, that would be really unfortunate. I personally think it's healthy to find a healthy relationship that is stable, and model THAT to kids instead of staying in a toxic marriage where the couple is fighting all the time. If this were the way things were supposed to work, I'd also still be in a toxic marriage, and would have probably had kids with him (because I wanted a family), and those kids would be in a family with parents who fought all the time, and a Dad who demeaned their Mom. That's not healthy or normal, but that's what they would grow up thinking was normal.


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## In Absentia

Ursula said:


> @In Absentia, yes, I do get that, but I really don't see me as being a replacement, I see my being in their life as an addition. Her mother is still in her life and always will be. Her mother also has a BF. However, putting myself in her shoes, yes, I would be devastated that my folks split up. On the flip-side, this is something that's very common, and if all divorced parents stayed single for their kids, that would be really unfortunate. I personally think it's healthy to find a healthy relationship that is stable, and model THAT to kids instead of staying in a toxic marriage where the couple is fighting all the time. If this were the way things were supposed to work, I'd also still be in a toxic marriage, and would have probably had kids with him (because I wanted a family), and those kids would be in a family with parents who fought all the time, and a Dad who demeaned their Mom. That's not healthy or normal, but that's what they would grow up thinking was normal.


I agree with you... I guess what I was trying to say is that it can't be easy for the little girl and I'm saying this because I've read some unpleasant comments about her. Remember folk: she is only 11 and dealing with the divorce of her parents.


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## Livvie

In Absentia said:


> I agree with you... I guess what I was trying to say is that it can't be easy for the little girl and I'm saying this because I've read some unpleasant comments about her. Remember folk: she is only 11 and dealing with the divorce of her parents.


The divorce happened many many years ago and shouldn't excuse some of the things going on. The lack of boundaries from the father have most likely hindered her development rather than helping her.


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## In Absentia

Livvie said:


> The divorce happened many many years ago and shouldn't excuse some of the things going on. The lack of boundaries from the father have most likely hindered her development rather than helping her.


I agree, but she is still a child who went through a traumatic event in her life.


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## Cynthia

In Absentia said:


> I agree, but she is still a child who went through a traumatic event in her life.


More than one traumatic event, which @Ursula has mentioned as something she is concerned about for the girl.

Good boundaries should help her, not hinder her.


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## Livvie

In Absentia said:


> I agree, but she is still a child who went through a traumatic event in her life.


So? 

So an almost 12 year old girl should sleep with her father, have him come in and wrap her in a towel while bathing, change in changing rooms with him into swimsuits, dictate his life with a life partner, and talk in baby talk?

No. Just no. 

None of those things would be/are healthy for her.


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## Cynthia

Livvie said:


> So?
> 
> So an almost 12 year old girl should sleep with her father, have him come in and wrap her in a towel while bathing, change in changing rooms with him into swimsuits, dictate his life with a life partner, and talk in baby talk?
> 
> No. Just no.
> 
> None of those things would be/are healthy for her.


True, and they are also not helping her overcome her trauma. They are creating deeper issues that must be addressed or she is going to be in a real world of hurt.


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## In Absentia

Livvie said:


> So?
> 
> So an almost 12 year old girl should sleep with her father, have him come in and wrap her in a towel while bathing, change in changing rooms with him into swimsuits, dictate his life with a life partner, and talk in baby talk?
> 
> No. Just no.
> 
> None of those things would be/are healthy for her.


I'm just saying to take into consideration her past trauma when dealing with her issues.


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## Cynthia

@Ursula, How are things going? Have you seen any improvements?


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## Ursula

Cynthia said:


> @Ursula, How are things going? Have you seen any improvements?


Well, she was with her mother last week, and I kind of ended up having a bit of a breakdown, and letting BF know how stressed out I was. He tends to think more on the positive side of things that everything is going to work out a-okay; I'm more of a realist, and hope that things will be OK, but know that they may not be. He said that he will work more with his daughter and get her to take more responsibility for her own actions or lack thereof. I do want her to be a kid, but at this point, I also feel like she should be doing a little more than she is, age appropriate of course. 

This week, she's to be with us, and hasn't been so far. This though has nothing to do with me living there; there's something going on at her mother's house and BF can't poinpoint it. When he asks, he doesn't get a straight answer. His youngest didn't go to school Monday or Tuesday. Monday, her mother took her mini golfing (WTF???), and Tuesday he was given 2 excuses: (1) youngest didn't feel well; and (2) she was kept up at night by the neighbours making noise. 

I suggested to BF to start logging these events so that if things get bad and go to court, he will have a log of stupidness that her mother has done. He started logging it yesterday, and is going to call a lawyer soon here about what steps he can take to ensure that his daughter has the basics, like education. I also talked to him about putting his foot down with his XW; she is never held accountable for the things she does, never has any consequences, and has full control of any situation, and that this needs to stop.

Youngest daughter will hopefully be back with us tonight. She's been wanting a bigger bed, so this past weekend, I suggested setting up the double that moved with me, and surprising her with it. She doesn't know about this yet. My old bedding is on it, but something her and I can do together: go uptown to pick out new bedding. I would like to do this with her, and hopefully it'll be a bit of a bonding situation. Hopefully!

Sorry this sounds a bit all over the place; I have a couple of sick dogs who've been keeping me up at night; this dog-Mama is exhausted.


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## Cynthia

Don't they have a custody agreement? I can't imagine how the mother can simply keep her when she is supposed to be with her dad. He doesn't have to allow that, if he has a custody agreement. Seeing an attorney is a good idea.


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## Ursula

Cynthia said:


> Don't they have a custody agreement? I can't imagine how the mother can simply keep her when she is supposed to be with her dad. He doesn't have to allow that, if he has a custody agreement. Seeing an attorney is a good idea.


There's definitely some kind of custody agreement in place: her parents are one week on, one week off, and it runs Sunday to Sunday each week. However, for whatever reason, it has always been really loose. Before I moved in, she was with her Dad for probably 70% of the time and never wanted to be with her mother, now she seems to almost need her mother more. Could be that I'm there, could be getting older and her body is changing. As for seeing a lawyer, BF was angry on Monday when she didn't go to school. That evening at home he said that on Tuesday if she doesn't go to school again, he's calling a lawyer. Did he? No. Like I said in my previous post, he's a hopeful man who wants things to magically work out. Telling him it won't doesn't seem to do anything past him realizing that his way of thinking isn't helpful. It still doesn't change anything though. I think he just doesn't want to rock the boat, and doesn't REALLY want to admit that by sitting back, he's giving his XW full control of everything. Sadly, I think that the **** will really have to hit the fan for him to wake up and make a change. I just hope that happens soon! His oldest is a 3x school dropout: Grade 9, grade 10 and grade 11. He doesn't want his youngest to end up doing that too.

Sorry, I seem to be beating a dead horse with this post. I realize there's not much I can do but be there to support them when things fall apart.


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## uwe.blab

Livvie said:


> I do think her behavior is off the average charts. I say this as a mother and former elementary school teacher.
> 
> Will her speech be addressed in school? Sounds like she needs speech therapy. Does she speak like that at school? Sounds like it would be impeding her progress in an academic setting, and also socially at school.
> 
> I think the father needing assistance out of the bathtub at 11 years old is worrying. She should be bathing herself on her own.
> 
> She should also be able to entertain herself at that age.
> 
> She sounds very developmentally delayed, has the school conducted testing? Can she make it through the school day on her own and complete in school assignments?


I would say, honestly, that she probably doesn't need help getting out of the bath tub but wants to make sure her dad will come running when she asks-- especially with the new woman threatening to take his attention away from her. My daughter is 14 and big-time daddy's girl and has jealousy issues with my wife- her step mom. Actually they both have jealousy issues over me. So. It's been a long haul-- they have had some good times but not a lot of trust there on either side, and tons of really ugly fights.


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## uwe.blab

AVR1962 said:


> Understand your limits, understand what is good for you and what is not, understand what is working and what is not. I married a man who had custody of his children, boys were 5 & 7 at the time. Mom was a absent parent as long as she thought no one else was in the picture. As a stepmom I found you are to treat the children like kings and queens. Everything will get blamed on you just for being in their lives. You have no voice or legal rights no matter how much of a role you play in their lives. If the child decides to reject you there is nothing anyone can do about that, including yourself. I was married 24 years and at no point did the boys accept me. It only got worse as they became older. This is no way to live. If you find yourself going down this road do yourself a favor and pull away. This is not the only man in the sea.


I am still working on my "blended family" but have to say I am not sure I would do this again if I had it to do over. I do love my wife but I am not sure that is enough to make up for all the conflict and drama and hurt feelings. I mean. It's. Exhausting.


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## *Deidre*

Ursula, you sound like you’d be a cool step-mom. And loving. What’s sad is that kids often want to be with their bio parent no matter how dysfunctional they are, over the sane, kind step parent. That’s the invisible battle you may always have to face but hopefully, things will improve.

One day at a time.


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## Ursula

*Deidre* said:


> Ursula, you sound like you’d be a cool step-mom. And loving. What’s sad is that kids often want to be with their bio parent no matter how dysfunctional they are, over the sane, kind step parent. That’s the invisible battle you may always have to face but hopefully, things will improve.
> 
> One day at a time.


Heee, thanks! I like to think I'd at least be a decent role model, but that will only happen if either of his girls are open to it. And I totally understand her wanting to be with her bio mom, and I also am pretty sure that at some point, she will realize just how messed up her mom and their relationship is. It might takes YEARS, just like it took me 43 years to realize that my own mother and I would never have a great mother-daughter relationship. But it happened, and it's a very freeing thing to know that I don't have to bend over backwards to please her anymore.


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