# Does she say no?



## 482

How many of you men out there in a relationship are told no to your sexual advances? I'm not wondering about the times when its real or relevant like when someone is sick or something. I am talking about when it just makes no sense, like the desire is not there. I have described my situation in other posts but I will give a quick overview here for background on the question. I get a yes from her about 7 out of 10 times I initiate. When she says no this starts a spiral of fighting for us most times but i digress. I am wondering how common this is for men on TAM? I wonder if some people have relationships where the desire is mutual and they never experience this type of dynamic at all or if this is just a common thing I am experiencing very late in life (I am almost 40)?


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## EunuchMonk

How long have you been married and how long has the difficulty in your sex life been happening?


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## dadstartingover

It's VERY common. Should it be? No. What does it mean? She's not turned on. 

Food for thought: I help out a lot of guys who are going through a divorce after discovering their wife's infidelity. Nearly 100% of them will tell you that they had completely dead or nearly dead bedrooms before discovering that their wife was engaged in crazy sex with an affair partner. 

The energy is in there. Figure out the buttons to push. The rub: you can't ASK her what buttons need pushing. If she has to TELL you, then that makes the situation even worse.


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## Livvie

dadstartingover said:


> It's VERY common. Should it be? No. What does it mean? She's not turned on.
> 
> Food for thought: I help out a lot of guys who are going through a divorce after discovering their wife's infidelity. Nearly 100% of them will tell you that they had completely dead or nearly dead bedrooms before discovering that their wife was engaged in crazy sex with an affair partner.
> 
> The energy is in there. Figure out the buttons to push. The rub: you can't ASK her what buttons need pushing. If she has to TELL you, then that makes the situation even worse.


I feel like this could be a wild goose chase. Some women marry men they are not attracted to, physically. There will never be the right buttons to push.


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## red oak

Livvie said:


> I feel like this could be a wild goose chase. Some women marry men they are not attracted to, physically. There will never be the right buttons to push.


Explain fat guys, ugly musicians, tatted up rough bikers.........women fawn over. It's the attitude, not the body. :smile2:


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## 482

EunuchMonk said:


> How long have you been married and how long has the difficulty in your sex life been happening?


We are not married, been dating for almost 3 years. This has been taking place for about 2 years.


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## 482

dadstartingover said:


> It's VERY common. Should it be? No. What does it mean? She's not turned on.
> 
> Food for thought: I help out a lot of guys who are going through a divorce after discovering their wife's infidelity. Nearly 100% of them will tell you that they had completely dead or nearly dead bedrooms before discovering that their wife was engaged in crazy sex with an affair partner.
> 
> The energy is in there. Figure out the buttons to push. The rub: you can't ASK her what buttons need pushing. If she has to TELL you, then that makes the situation even worse.


I hear what you're saying but should relationships really be this hard? Like some constant unsolved mystery I need to figure out? Maybe I just have my male blinders on but it seems to me if I want to have sex I do. Also if I do not, which is rare, I can clearly articulate why in away anyone could understand.


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## 482

red oak said:


> Explain fat guys, ugly musicians, tatted up rough bikers.........women fawn over. It's the attitude, not the body. :smile2:


Confidence and power


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## BigToe

482 said:


> ...or if this is just a common thing I am experiencing very late in life (I am almost 40)?


Oh my, VERY late in life, almost 40! Have you picked out a coffin yet? Listen, 40 is nothing, get a grip. Have you heard of MAX dynamic pressure during the launch of space bound rockets? For a woman, her 40's are like MAX dynamic pressure especially if she has kids. Trust me, the older they get, the more receptive they get. Things WILL change when life's pressures start fading. It could be a myriad of issues as others have stated, but sometimes its nothing more than not having the desire if she is working, has kids, and other domestic responsibilities. ie, she's tired

I had the same issue in my 40's and resolved it by sitting my wife down, looking her straight in the eye, and saying "I NEED SEX and I don't want to fight about it anymore". We agreed to twice a week, weds and saturday, like clockwork until the kids were more or less on their own. At that point, I had grown comfortable with the schedule but SHE wanted more. Whooohoooo!!!!  Yeah, I know, not spontaneous, not romantic, blah, blah, blah. But I got enough sex to keep me sane throughout the week and the fighting stopped. A win/win for both of us.


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## Herschel

She doesn’t like you but she doesn’t like being alone even more? 

It’s tough. It’s the most common complaint with married men.


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## the guy

The desire was mutual.....I take that back...WW was more, hence her infidelity!

Granted, we come from the other side of the tracks. And as crazy as it is, I knew who I married no matter how hard she tried to be this pure virgin wife and mother with boundaries.

At the end of the day she has proven to be a freak and it has been verified by her infidelity.

So…"no" is not in her vocabulary!


Just my perspective here and IMHO it is common, but not in my case!


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## 482

BigToe said:


> Oh my, VERY late in life, almost 40! Have you picked out a coffin yet? Listen, 40 is nothing, get a grip. Have you heard of MAX dynamic pressure during the launch of space bound rockets? For a woman, her 40's are like MAX dynamic pressure especially if she has kids. Trust me, the older they get, the more receptive they get. Things WILL change when life's pressures start fading. It could be a myriad of issues as others have stated, but sometimes its nothing more than not having the desire if she is working, has kids, and other domestic responsibilities. ie, she's tired
> 
> I had the same issue in my 40's and resolved it by sitting my wife down, looking her straight in the eye, and saying "I NEED SEX and I don't want to fight about it anymore". We agreed to twice a week, weds and saturday, like clockwork until the kids were more or less on their own. At that point, I had grown comfortable with the schedule but SHE wanted more. Whooohoooo!!!!  Yeah, I know, not spontaneous, not romantic, blah, blah, blah. But I got enough sex to keep me sane throughout the week and the fighting stopped. A win/win for both of us.


lol I know, no coffin selection yet. :grin2:. I guess what I met was almost 40 seems a bit late to find out that this is the way it is, if this is the case. It's never been like this in my previous relationships. That schedule idea does not seem very sexy but maybe it would eliminate a bunch of fighting. I say this because my desire is based on sexual availability. Kids are away or in bed, we are alone, availability is high, so I initiate. Maybe a schedule would eliminate the ambiguity and my looking for sexual availability on non sex days. Alternatively I could focus on other experiences to share without sex clouding my vision.


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## FeministInPink

From a woman's point of view... when I was married, I almost never turned him down for sex. (In fact, I was the one always initiating, and frequently getting denied.) The only times I turned him down was when I was getting ready for bed, already had an early morning planned and a long day ahead, and we had already had either an entire evening or day together, during which he entirely ignored me and when we had plenty of time to have sex, even multiple times if we wanted. In those situations, it ticked me off that he had ignored me all day, and then completely disregarded my need for sleep. (It was a bad marriage. Not the best example you are looking for.)

My most recent partner, who I was with for 2.5 yrs... I never turned him down for sex, EVER. Even if I wasn't totally in the mood, I still said yes, and once we got going, I got in the mood. (I would, however, sometimes tell him, "Yes, but I'm really tired, so you have to do all the work, big man, I'm not climbing on top." And it was still great fun.) Now, he was a smart man who recognized when I wasn't feeling well, and wouldn't initiate during those times, but we still had lots of sex. And if I was in the mood, but he knew he couldn't "perform," he still never refused me--he took care of me in other ways and always made sure I was satisfied. Now, the thing with my recent XBF is that we were both pretty HD, and we were continually stoking the fire, so to speak... there as always a sexual undercurrent that we kept going pretty much all the time. It takes effort on both parts to keep that going, and a vested interest in your sex life to do so.


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## ConanHub

482 said:


> We are not married, been dating for almost 3 years. This has been taking place for about 2 years.


Run....


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## the guy

I agree with Bigtoe….chicks dig confident men....so take them on Wed. and Sat. or take them over the work bench, kitchen table, and even the office desk.

At the end of the day it's their choice to except the "confidence" you have to offer or be on their way!


That's my $0.02


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## ConanHub

the guy said:


> The desire was mutual.....I take that back...WW was more, hence her infidelity!
> 
> Granted, we come from the other side of the tracks. And as crazy as it is, I knew who I married no matter how hard she tried to be this pure virgin wife and mother with boundaries.
> 
> At the end of the day she has proven to be a freak and it has been verified by her infidelity.
> 
> So…"no" is not in her vocabulary!
> 
> 
> Just my perspective here and IMHO it is common, but not in my case!


T/J

Good to see you still posting you barbarian!

End T/J.


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## 482

FeministInPink said:


> From a woman's point of view... when I was married, I almost never turned him down for sex. (In fact, I was the one always initiating, and frequently getting denied.) The only times I turned him down was when I was getting ready for bed, already had an early morning planned and a long day ahead, and we had already had either an entire evening or day together, during which he entirely ignored me and when we had plenty of time to have sex, even multiple times if we wanted. In those situations, it ticked me off that he had ignored me all day, and then completely disregarded my need for sleep. (It was a bad marriage. Not the best example you are looking for.)
> 
> My most recent partner, who I was with for 2.5 yrs... I never turned him down for sex, EVER. Even if I wasn't totally in the mood, I still said yes, and once we got going, I got in the mood. (I would, however, sometimes tell him, "Yes, but I'm really tired, so you have to do all the work, big man, I'm not climbing on top." And it was still great fun.) Now, he was a smart man who recognized when I wasn't feeling well, and wouldn't initiate during those times, but we still had lots of sex. And if I was in the mood, but he knew he couldn't "perform," he still never refused me--he took care of me in other ways and always made sure I was satisfied. Now, the thing with my recent XBF is that we were both pretty HD, and we were continually stoking the fire, so to speak... there as always a sexual undercurrent that we kept going pretty much all the time. It takes effort on both parts to keep that going, and a vested interest in your sex life to do so.


Thank you. Vested interest is key. Sucks when you feel like its not equal. Was looking for feedback from men but its interesting to hear from you seeming to be the pursuer and dealing with the same issue of being denied in your past.


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## 482

ConanHub said:


> Run....


I am guessing you do not hear no in your relationship therefore suggest I end my relationship to seek a similar relationship? Am I correct?


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## ConanHub

Doesn't happen here and never has.

I don't get the attraction to someone who doesn't want to jump you nearly as much as you want to jump them.


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## red oak

the guy said:


> I agree with Bigtoe….chicks dig confident men....so take them on Wed. and Sat. or take them over the work bench, kitchen table, and even the office desk.
> 
> At the end of the day it's their choice to except the "confidence" you have to offer or be on their way!
> 
> 
> That's my $0.02


LOL! :iagree:


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## FeministInPink

482 said:


> Thank you. Vested interest is key. Sucks when you feel like its not equal. Was looking for feedback from men but its interesting to hear from you seeming to be the pursuer and dealing with the same issue of being denied in your past.


And here's the thing... like you, the sex started to drop off well before we were married. I attributed it to circumstances (I was in school and working full time, and then he lost his job and was depressed), thinking things would get better later... and they never did. It made me MISERABLE.) We went on a two week honeymoon, and we had sex ONCE. You're supposed to be screwing like bunny rabbits on your honeymoon, and... ONCE??? I can't tell you how many times I initiated on our honeymoon, and he declined or made excuses, but I know I initiated at least once a day.

That seriously ****s with your head and your emotions.

When I got together with my XBF, I made sure that he knew about my previous experiences, and that I expected a minimum amount of sex, and I expected him to be doing the initiating at least 50% of the time, but that I preferred that he take the lead more than that. And I explained that, because of my history, I would have a very bad reaction if I was refused. A few months into our relationship, I initiated, and he declined, and I was triggered and had a complete meltdown, and then he really UNDERSTOOD what I had tried to tell him previously. He never declined again, because he understood that was what I needed to feel loved and valued and cared for.

Regarding your current situation--and I've read and commented on your other thread as well--I don't think this relationship is going to turn out well for you. I just don't see this getting better, and I don't see her changing. I think there's likely someone out there who is a better fit for you.


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## Faithful Wife

482 said:


> EunuchMonk said:
> 
> 
> 
> How long have you been married and how long has the difficulty in your sex life been happening?
> 
> 
> 
> We are not married, been dating for almost 3 years. This has been taking place for about 2 years.
Click to expand...

What is happening is that the new relationship chemicals wore off and now you are seeing that you and she are a sexual mismatch.

You can’t really fix those. You can only accept it or move on.

Yes, it is common. It’s not always the woman who is LD.

It happens because new relationship chemicals mask some people’s true sex drive. It makes you both high on the sex and remember it as the best ever. It gives you both a great amount of energy and your attraction for each other spins off the charts.

But new relationship energy has a shelf life. Usually 1 - 3 years. Sometimes much less. 

You don’t really know your groove with someone until after that newness wears off.

There’s science behind this.

You are seeing her “real” sexual energy, attitudes and libido. This is her. The first her wasn’t her, this one is.

It doesn’t go back to what it was, it actually gets less and less connected (in a mismatch).

If she were willing to put in great effort to “make herself” feel more sexual more often, this could possibly be a fulfilling relationship for you. Not sure it would be for her, though.

I’m sorry it is this way, but it is. This is where you have to start from in order to decide what you want to do.


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## uhtred

I've been turned down every time I've initiated for at least 2 years now, probably more. (needless to say I don't initiate much).

There is always an excuse, that is sufficiently meaningless that I don't really listen anymore. She just doesn't want sex except very rarely and only when she initiates. 

It happens, but if it happens a lot, in most cases I think divorce is the best option. 
@FeministInPink - we also had sex once on our honeymoon. I was too young and inexperienced to know just how bad a sign that was.


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## NJ2

Female here- I know you are looking to hear from men but I thought I'd comment anyways- I was low drive while all the kids were little- we made a 1x a week deal- he said that was his minimum and I said that was my max at the time- just plain exhausted! H was excellent in bed and I still find him ridiculously attractive - so don't think it's something YOU are responsible for

Have her watch the TED " mating in captivity" it helped me understand my responsibility in it later on

Also reading TAM threads about this woke me up to how important it is for men to have regular sex and the way they feel when they are turned down- I had no idea


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## Andy1001

482 said:


> I am guessing you do not hear no in your relationship therefore suggest I end my relationship to seek a similar relationship? Am I correct?


Are the children yours?
If they are then you have your work cut out if you want to stay with your girlfriend.
If the children aren’t yours then I reiterate what @ConanHub wrote.
Run!


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## Diana7

You mention children but that you have been dating for only 3 years. Are the children from previous marriages/relationships or are they from this one? In which case they must be very young. 
How often do you want sex? Can you come to a compromise?


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## Bluesclues

In your other thread you said that you get a “yes” 7 out of 10 times - which is it?


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## snerg

482 said:


> I am guessing you do not hear no in your relationship therefore suggest I end my relationship to seek a similar relationship? Am I correct?


Per your stats 7 out of 10 times is no - been going on 2 out of 3 years.

66% of your relationship has been a *NO* to 70 % of attempted sex - too much a battle to have sex.

Odds are in favor for this to get worse rather than better.


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## dadstartingover

482 said:


> We are not married, been dating for almost 3 years. This has been taking place for about 2 years.


Dude. This is "We've been married for 12 years" behavior... not dating for almost three years. You've had a dead bedroom for two out of three years. Dude.

You're not sexually compatible. It's ok. It happens. Move on.


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## 482

Bluesclues thank you for helping me find a mistake on this post. The other post is correct. She says yes 7 out of 10 times. The kids are previous. My daughter is 15 and her two kids are 11 and 9. Im sure this correct information will impact others reply’s so I apologize for not catching that.


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## She'sStillGotIt

482 said:


> We are not married, been dating for almost 3 years. This has been taking place for about 2 years.


Jeez.

I thought you were one of the many guys who post here who have been married 15 or 20 years and the wife is no longer interested in having sex with you.

So she's only a girlfriend, you've been with her for 3 years, and only the FIRST year was good?

Do you really need _*us*_ to tell you to run?


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## She'sStillGotIt

482 said:


> Bluesclues thank you for helping me find a mistake on this post. The other post is correct. She says yes 7 out of 10 times.


Oh for God's sakes. My last post was based on *your* inaccurate statement that she says *NO* 7 out of 10 times when you approach her.

Why are you even complaining? Those are pretty damned good odds. Sheesh.


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## 482

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Oh for God's sakes. My last post was based on *your* inaccurate statement that she says *NO* 7 out of 10 times when you approach her.
> 
> Why are you even complaining? Those are pretty damned good odds. Sheesh.




Lol I am truly sorry. I am on the phone and it will not let me edit the post or I would fix it. Guess I’m wondering if this relationship where the desire is mutual and they don’t reject each other exists? Sounds like for some it does.


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## anonmd

Well, throw out all those responses. 

40 years old
3 kids to interrupt and distract at all times
Says yes 70% of the time

Shut your pie hole . If you think this is a problem it is you that have a problem...


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## Rowan

How often are you asking for sex? And what's the frequency of sex? If you're having sex multiple times per week, then her "only" saying "yes" 7 out of 10 times is different than it would be if you're only having sex once a month. I was probably saying "no" to my husband about 25-30% of the time, too. But we were still having sex 5+ times a week, even with a busy life and a small child at home. He was just asking multiple times per day. So, what's the actual dynamic in your relationship? 

It may also be helpful to consider this: If you were single, would you get sex every 7 out of 10 times you approached a woman for it? 

If the answer to that is "yes" then you'd be better off single. Or, perhaps, better off figuring out why strangers would want to jump you but your girlfriend doesn't, and seeing if that disparity is something that can be remedied. Perhaps it could, or perhaps not.

If the answer is "no", you would not be getting sex 7 out of 10 times as a single man, then you're currently getting more sex than you would if you weren't with your girlfriend. If that's the case, maybe try to figure out what the actual problem is. If she turned you down only 2 times out of 10, would that be enough sex? Is there such a thing as enough sex for you? What frequency would be sustainable for you? Or are you looking for someone who would _never_ turn you down ever? If you want someone who never, ever, turns you down, then you and your girlfriend are simply not compatible. If the actual problem is the_ way_ you're being turned down, then that's something you can work on together as a couple. 

But, if you're one of those people for whom there is no such thing as enough, if you can't self-soothe and rely on sex to do that for you, or if you rely on a "yes" to sustain your own ego? Well, those aren't things any woman will be able to fix for you long-term.

So, I ask again: What's the actual dynamic of your relationship?


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## ConanHub

482 said:


> Lol I am truly sorry. I am on the phone and it will not let me edit the post or I would fix it. Guess I’m wondering if this relationship where the desire is mutual and they don’t reject each other exists? Sounds like for some it does.


Headache....

I don't get no but 70% acceptance of your initiation is pretty damn good.

If you want to be a Don Juan, you need to look to improving yourself and that is steady work for years to gain and keep seduction traits.

I don't get no and I get asked more than I ask but I have had game since childhood.

There are many traits you could work to develop in yourself that would get the results you're looking for but why do you think you have it so bad?

Are you in shape?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

482 said:


> We are not married, been dating for almost 3 years. This has been taking place for about 2 years.


As DSO shared, it's not that uncommon, but it's also not that uncommon for the male to get told yes to, 95% of the time, so it can vary.

In a relationship, ie not married, that's a red flag, and also a welcome to your life if you took the next step, got married. 

Many men wouldn't put up with so many negative responses in a relationship prior to more. Or in a M.

Some do, so I won't say it doesn't happen. 

Very likely she's getting some lovin' elsewhere. 

Only you know all the circumstances. 

Choose wisely my friend. 

PS as far as the getting older part, many men, enjoy regular yes responses virtually every day. I'm 56, and we're still hot and heavy, so to speak. Many TAM men and women forumites have great sex lives.

Well shoot! Based on the OP corrected post, of yes 7/10, cast out the above comments!

Some would say 7/10 yes is good, although can be higher, many are lower in an ltr.


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## ConanHub

P.S. If you haven't figured it out, the problem doesn't really seem to be with your girlfriend.

Look to yourself.


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## Bananapeel

482 said:


> How many of you men out there in a relationship are told no to your sexual advances? I'm not wondering about the times when its real or relevant like when someone is sick or something. I am talking about when it just makes no sense, like the desire is not there. I have described my situation in other posts but I will give a quick overview here for background on the question. I get a no from her about 7 out of 10 times I initiate. This starts a spiral of fighting for us most times but i digress. I am wondering how common this is for men on TAM? I wonder if some people have relationships where the desire is mutual and they never experience this type of dynamic at all or if this is just a common thing I am experiencing very late in life (I am almost 40)?


I was with my XW for the better part of 20 years and she didn't deny my advances. Except there was one brief time in our relationship (maybe two weeks) where she started to deny my advances and I just explained to her it was a deal breaker for me so we could either work on things to get back where we were before or we could end them, but I wasn't going to accept being denied as the status quo. I meant it and she knew it because throughout our whole relationship I was always direct and honest with her, and my actions were congruent with my words. She decided to work on her issues were and was able to get back to where we were before. 

The women I've dated post D never have denied me. I'm a great catch and have a ton of confidence and lots of options, so they don't want to risk me walking away. Plus, I'm good at keeping things exciting and engaging women emotionally so they feel bonded to me. The secret is to be a good listener, be attentive but not reliant on them, and maintain my own life and friends outside of my dating life. Oh, and having a great body and being good in bed really helps too.



482 said:


> We are not married, been dating for almost 3 years. This has been taking place for about 2 years.


That just means she's not really into you and is settling for you because you're a secure choice not the exciting choice. The fact that you've put up with it for 2 years doesn't speak well of your confidence level or ability to find better choices for you. It also doesn't speak well for your ability to screen for women that are highly attracted to you. The best thing you can do is simply leave her and find someone more compatible, but you also need to work on yourself and accept that you had a big role in this.


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## 482

ConanHub said:


> Headache....
> 
> 
> 
> I don't get no but 70% acceptance of your initiation is pretty damn good.
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to be a Don Juan, you need to look to improving yourself and that is steady work for years to gain and keep seduction traits.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't get no and I get asked more than I ask but I have had game since childhood.
> 
> 
> 
> There are many traits you could work to develop in yourself that would get the results you're looking for but why do you think you have it so bad?
> 
> 
> 
> Are you in shape?



I understand what you are saying about working on me. I can relate to never being told no because this is the first time in my life it has ever happened. Maybe this is why I am taking it so personal. I am in ok shape, 6ft 185-190. I would like to lose some weight. Ideal for me would be 170-175. I’m jealous, she very rarely initiates, you’re a lucky man. I don’t think I have it that bad was just wondering how common it is.


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## 482

Bananapeel said:


> I was with my XW for the better part of 20 years and she didn't deny my advances. Except there was one brief time in our relationship (maybe two weeks) where she started to deny my advances and I just explained to her it was a deal breaker for me so we could either work on things to get back where we were before or we could end them, but I wasn't going to accept being denied as the status quo. I meant it and she knew it because throughout our whole relationship I was always direct and honest with her, and my actions were congruent with my words. She decided to work on her issues were and was able to get back to where we were before.
> 
> The women I've dated post D never have denied me. I'm a great catch and have a ton of confidence and lots of options, so they don't want to risk me walking away. Plus, I'm good at keeping things exciting and engaging women emotionally so they feel bonded to me. The secret is to be a good listener, be attentive but not reliant on them, and maintain my own life and friends outside of my dating life. Oh, and having a great body and being good in bed really helps too.
> 
> 
> 
> That just means she's not really into you and is settling for you because you're a secure choice not the exciting choice. The fact that you've put up with it for 2 years doesn't speak well of your confidence level or ability to find better choices for you. It also doesn't speak well for your ability to screen for women that are highly attracted to you. The best thing you can do is simply leave her and find someone more compatible, but you also need to work on yourself and accept that you had a big role in this.




Thank you for your comment I was definitely much more confident before this started. Also I understand what you are describing about remaining high value. Just want to make sure you caught that I made a mistake in my original post. She says yes 7 out of 10 times, not no. When I tell her I am not happy with her saying no and describe why she says things like I want her to be my sex slave. This to me is super crazy and a huge turn off. I would never want to have sex with someone who does not want to have sex with me. I do not want a sex slave I want a partner who desires me sexually as much as I desire them.


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## PigglyWiggly

482 said:


> Thank you for your comment I was definitely much more confident before this started. Also I understand what you are describing about remaining high value. Just want to make sure you caught that I made a mistake in my original post. She says yes 7 out of 10 times, not no. When I tell her I am not happy with her saying no and describe why she says things like I want her to be my sex slave. This to me is super crazy and a huge turn off. I would never want to have sex with someone who does not want to have sex with me. I do not want a sex slave I want a partner who desires me sexually as much as I desire them.


It doesn't sound like she really understands what sex means to you. I believe you two need to talk about what sex means to each of you. Right now, it seems that she feels she is a masturbatory aid at times. It's time for you to change that perception by communicating what sex actually means to you and what ot does for the relationship.


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## Married but Happy

My ex increasingly said no, and that was a large part of why I divorced her. I was not going to remain unhappy in a sexless marriage. Sadly, I think it is all too common, but people often stay in such relationships for a variety of other reasons. That's their choice, upon balancing out all the factors. Some will divorce later, once the kids are gone, if that was a factor in their staying.

I've been in a very different - and happy - relationship for the last 19 years. We hardly ever say no to each other, we both initiate, we both continue to desire each other. Neither of us will accept a sexless marriage again.


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## sokillme

Instead of worrying about the amount of times why not work on the quality. The quality of YOU! Be creative, blow her mind and you both will probably not be worried about this. 

When you are with someone who 70% of the time is open to it, sex like love should be thought of as giving. You are not in the same situation as folks who are being shut out.


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## Rowan

482 said:


> Thank you for your comment I was definitely much more confident before this started. Also I understand what you are describing about remaining high value. Just want to make sure you caught that I made a mistake in my original post. She says yes 7 out of 10 times, not no. When I tell her I am not happy with her saying no and describe why she says things like I want her to be my sex slave. This to me is super crazy and a huge turn off. I would never want to have sex with someone who does not want to have sex with me. *I do not want a sex slave I want a partner who desires me sexually as much as I desire them.*



You need to understand that her sex drive doesn't work like yours does. And that that fact does not make her wrong or broken. Even when two people are sexually compatible, their sex drives may not work in the same ways. If you want to understand this a bit better, you might try reading the book _His Needs, Her Needs_, by Willard Harley. She likely needs a close emotional attachment to you in order to want to have sex with you. That's fairly common for women. The book will explain all that and give you suggestions on ways that you might work on _the relationship as a whole_ that might then improve her sexual response to you. 

However, I'm still curious as to how often you two are having sex. If you're asking 10 times a week and having sex 7, then it's not such an anomaly. In fact, you would be having sex more often than the average happily married couple with children at home. However, if it's the simple fact of _ever_ being turned down that's not working for you, then I would say that you and your girlfriend are simply incompatible. And you will need to find either someone with a drive to match your own, or someone who has an upbringing and belief system (or personality type) that would make turning you down a non-starter. 

By the way, does your girlfriend know the frequency you would be happy with? If not, you might try a calm discussion about that and see if there's some compromise available.


----------



## PigglyWiggly

Rowan said:


> You need to understand that her sex drive doesn't work like yours does. And that that fact does not make her wrong or broken. Even when two people are sexually compatible, their sex drives may not work in the same ways. If you want to understand this a bit better, you might try reading the book _His Needs, Her Needs_, by Willard Harley. She likely needs a close emotional attachment to you in order to want to have sex with you. That's fairly common for women. The book will explain all that and give you suggestions on ways that you might work on _the relationship as a whole_ that might then improve her sexual response to you.
> 
> However, I'm still curious as to how often you two are having sex. If you're asking 10 times a week and having sex 7, then it's not such an anomaly. In fact, you would be having sex more often than the average happily married couple with children at home. However, if it's the simple fact of _ever_ being turned down that's not working for you, then I would say that you and your girlfriend are simply incompatible. And you will need to find either someone with a drive to match your own, or someone who has an upbringing and belief system (or personality type) that would make turning you down a non-starter.
> 
> By the way,* does your girlfriend know the frequency you would be happy with*? If not, you might try a calm discussion about that and see if there's some compromise available.


That and under her ideal conditions, what would be the number of times that she would be happy with. Her answers might surprise him and open a door to a better sex life.


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## shesgone

It sounds like to me that you have it pretty damn good. If everyone on this forum was getting 70% return on asking for sex then I imagine there would be way fewer posts on here. 
Talking to her about it is the only way the problem can be fixed if it is actually a problem for you. Every relationship I have ever been in was daily sex and I'd just about bet my batting average was nowhere near 70%. HAHA
Although since my wife has been on her new hormone medication I think I have around a 150% because she wants it as much if not more than I do.


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## Bananapeel

482 said:


> Thank you for your comment I was definitely much more confident before this started. Also I understand what you are describing about remaining high value. Just want to make sure you caught that I made a mistake in my original post. She says yes 7 out of 10 times, not no. When I tell her I am not happy with her saying no and describe why she says things like I want her to be my sex slave. This to me is super crazy and a huge turn off. I would never want to have sex with someone who does not want to have sex with me. I do not want a sex slave I want a partner who desires me sexually as much as I desire them.


I'm used to getting a yes 10 out of 10 times, so a 30% failure rate vs a 70% failure rate are both not things I would tolerate. About the sex slave...well, I've told multiple women their body is mine to do what I want with and it always seems to turn them on. If they give me attitude about it then they're getting a playful spanking. 

You see it's not about coercing an unwanted partner to have sex, but being able to turn on your partner. But this all goes back to proper partner selection. I only date women that are really into me. The rest I might keep as an occasional F buddy, but I'm not going to have a relationship with them. You can easily tell how much a woman likes you by her behavior and attitude. If she's sweet, agreeable, and goes out of her way to please you she's conveying she wants you in her life. If she argues with you and denies your sexual advances then you're at a much lower level in her eyes, and you should dump her and find a better match.


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## 3Xnocharm

Women have every right to decline if they are not feeling it for some reason. (as do men, too!) We dont all have the same desires at the same time, and our partner shouldnt make us feel terrible for that. My first husband used to get all pissed and go off on me if I turned him down, and all that crap did was make me want him less and less, eventually to the point where I stopped being with him all together. Being an ass to your partner does not create intimacy. 

That said, if the declines are becoming more and more frequent, then that's when there should be concern and serious discussion to get to the bottom of things before it fizzles out completely. I cant speak for all women, but I have figured out that when my desire for my partner is decreasing, it has been due to issues within the relationship itself.


----------



## Bananapeel

3Xnocharm said:


> Women have every right to decline if they are not feeling it for some reason. (as do men, too!)


I 100% agree with this. But women (or men) don't have the right to expect a relationship if they aren't meeting each other's needs. That's why the OP needs to get rid of his GF and find a new one. They are clearly not compatible.


----------



## BluesPower

482 said:


> How many of you men out there in a relationship are told no to your sexual advances? I'm not wondering about the times when its real or relevant like when someone is sick or something. I am talking about when it just makes no sense, like the desire is not there. I have described my situation in other posts but I will give a quick overview here for background on the question. I get a no from her about 7 out of 10 times I initiate. This starts a spiral of fighting for us most times but i digress. I am wondering how common this is for men on TAM? I wonder if some people have relationships where the desire is mutual and they never experience this type of dynamic at all or if this is just a common thing I am experiencing very late in life (I am almost 40)?


You know, you have had several thread on here about your near sexless marriage/relationship. 

Dude, I don't want to be to harsh, but asking the same question a hundred time will not change the answer. 

Your wife/GF(Should be wife with two kids) , is not now, nor has she ever been into you sexually. Get it. She does not like sex with you, and it is possible the she does not like sex at all. 

Get a grip. Grow UP. 

Your marriage/relationship will get even worse than it is now. You have a choice, divorce because you two are not sexually compatible, and because she is not attracted to you sexually, or live in an increasingly sexless marriage.

Lot's of the sexless guys will commiserate with you. Sorry I won't. Honestly, you need to face the truth. 

You are freaking 40 YO. You are so young. Unless you are the worst lover in the world, and horribly ugly, horribly obese, or you have two heads, there are thousands of women in the world that you can be with. 

Your wife/GF is never going to change, and you cannot make her. 

To answer your question, for me and people like me, never. I am never rejected for sex, and I expect my partner to initiate some portion of the time just because I like it that way. I want to feel desired just like she does. 

Please wise up so that you can find a happy life with another woman...


----------



## 482

Rowan said:


> How often are you asking for sex? And what's the frequency of sex? If you're having sex multiple times per week, then her "only" saying "yes" 7 out of 10 times is different than it would be if you're only having sex once a month. I was probably saying "no" to my husband about 25-30% of the time, too. But we were still having sex 5+ times a week, even with a busy life and a small child at home. He was just asking multiple times per day. So, what's the actual dynamic in your relationship?
> 
> It may also be helpful to consider this: If you were single, would you get sex every 7 out of 10 times you approached a woman for it?
> 
> If the answer to that is "yes" then you'd be better off single. Or, perhaps, better off figuring out why strangers would want to jump you but your girlfriend doesn't, and seeing if that disparity is something that can be remedied. Perhaps it could, or perhaps not.
> 
> If the answer is "no", you would not be getting sex 7 out of 10 times as a single man, then you're currently getting more sex than you would if you weren't with your girlfriend. If that's the case, maybe try to figure out what the actual problem is. If she turned you down only 2 times out of 10, would that be enough sex? Is there such a thing as enough sex for you? What frequency would be sustainable for you? Or are you looking for someone who would _never_ turn you down ever? If you want someone who never, ever, turns you down, then you and your girlfriend are simply not compatible. If the actual problem is the_ way_ you're being turned down, then that's something you can work on together as a couple.
> 
> But, if you're one of those people for whom there is no such thing as enough, if you can't self-soothe and rely on sex to do that for you, or if you rely on a "yes" to sustain your own ego? Well, those aren't things any woman will be able to fix for you long-term.
> 
> So, I ask again: What's the actual dynamic of your relationship?


If we are not fighting its about twice a week. Thank you for your post there is lots of valuable relevant information in it. Of course I would prefer a relationship where I am never told no. I am also aware that there is much more to us than just sex and I take all of that into account. If I were single I would never get turned down for sex. If sex was the one and only thing that was important to me then yes I would be better off single. This is not the case.


----------



## 482

anonmd said:


> Well, throw out all those responses.
> 
> 40 years old
> 3 kids to interrupt and distract at all times
> Says yes 70% of the time
> 
> Shut your pie hole . If you think this is a problem it is you that have a problem...


lol thank you. 3 kids have time with their other parents. We have 2-3 days a week at a minimum alone.


----------



## 482

ConanHub said:


> P.S. If you haven't figured it out, the problem doesn't really seem to be with your girlfriend.
> 
> Look to yourself.


I am one stubborn SOB so its often hard for me to realize things like this. Can you tell me what you think my problem is in this situation? Don't hold back I can take it


----------



## 482

Rowan said:


> You need to understand that her sex drive doesn't work like yours does. And that that fact does not make her wrong or broken. Even when two people are sexually compatible, their sex drives may not work in the same ways. If you want to understand this a bit better, you might try reading the book _His Needs, Her Needs_, by Willard Harley. She likely needs a close emotional attachment to you in order to want to have sex with you. That's fairly common for women. The book will explain all that and give you suggestions on ways that you might work on _the relationship as a whole_ that might then improve her sexual response to you.
> 
> However, I'm still curious as to how often you two are having sex. If you're asking 10 times a week and having sex 7, then it's not such an anomaly. In fact, you would be having sex more often than the average happily married couple with children at home. However, if it's the simple fact of _ever_ being turned down that's not working for you, then I would say that you and your girlfriend are simply incompatible. And you will need to find either someone with a drive to match your own, or someone who has an upbringing and belief system (or personality type) that would make turning you down a non-starter.
> 
> By the way, does your girlfriend know the frequency you would be happy with? If not, you might try a calm discussion about that and see if there's some compromise available.


I have read the book. I also gave her a copy, not sure she ever finished it. We need to figure something out because it's a constant source of conflict for us.


----------



## 482

BluesPower said:


> You know, you have had several thread on here about your near sexless marriage/relationship.
> 
> Dude, I don't want to be to harsh, but asking the same question a hundred time will not change the answer.
> 
> Your wife/GF(Should be wife with two kids) , is not now, nor has she ever been into you sexually. Get it. She does not like sex with you, and it is possible the she does not like sex at all.
> 
> Get a grip. Grow UP.
> 
> Your marriage/relationship will get even worse than it is now. You have a choice, divorce because you two are not sexually compatible, and because she is not attracted to you sexually, or live in an increasingly sexless marriage.
> 
> Lot's of the sexless guys will commiserate with you. Sorry I won't. Honestly, you need to face the truth.
> 
> You are freaking 40 YO. You are so young. Unless you are the worst lover in the world, and horribly ugly, horribly obese, or you have two heads, there are thousands of women in the world that you can be with.
> 
> Your wife/GF is never going to change, and you cannot make her.
> 
> To answer your question, for me and people like me, never. I am never rejected for sex, and I expect my partner to initiate some portion of the time just because I like it that way. I want to feel desired just like she does.
> 
> Please wise up so that you can find a happy life with another woman...


No threads about a sexless relationship from me on here. I have had many questions about sex because its is a constant source of conflict for us. I apologize if I put out the impression we are sexless. It has never been that way. I would never stay.


----------



## I shouldnthave

Alright, here are a few things from my point of view. 

I am a woman, I suppose higher drive on the spectrum, but truthfully that can fluctuate. 

For ME keeping me worked up is HUGE. Flirt with me all day, from a passionate kiss as I leave for work in the morning, to scandalous texts throughout the day - I’ll be jumping your bones at the first opportunity. 

But ignore my sexuality, show up dirty from the day wanting sex.... well, I’ll never turn him down, but I will be honest and tell him I need a proper warm up first. 

Comes down to, how is your foreplay game? Many women have responsive desire. In that the more they fee wanted, the hornier they feel. I know that is true for me. I love knowing he is pining over me, that he is aching for me, that he TELLS me these things to set the stage. And by building my desire - I then ache for him as well. 

Flirt!!! Don’t just ask for sex, put the notion in her head, hours before.


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## RandomDude

My girlfriend and I say no to each other all the time, in fact we say it more times than we say yes. We also never ask, we just... do. But no = yes for us, our real NO is our safe words. Our little dynamic I guess.

She also says she likes my approach, as asking for sex is not sexy. Rather, seduce her, tease her until she can't take it anymore and begs for you inside her. We always laugh about how alot of people still ask for sex, it should just blend into your time together and should be no different to spontaneous touches affection and cuddles.


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## 482

I shouldnthave said:


> Alright, here are a few things from my point of view.
> 
> I am a woman, I suppose higher drive on the spectrum, but truthfully that can fluctuate.
> 
> For ME keeping me worked up is HUGE. Flirt with me all day, from a passionate kiss as I leave for work in the morning, to scandalous texts throughout the day - I’ll be jumping your bones at the first opportunity.
> 
> But ignore my sexuality, show up dirty from the day wanting sex.... well, I’ll never turn him down, but I will be honest and tell him I need a proper warm up first.
> 
> Comes down to, how is your foreplay game? Many women have responsive desire. In that the more they fee wanted, the hornier they feel. I know that is true for me. I love knowing he is pining over me, that he is aching for me, that he TELLS me these things to set the stage. And by building my desire - I then ache for him as well.
> 
> Flirt!!! Don’t just ask for sex, put the notion in her head, hours before.


Foreplay is not an issue but sometimes I just want to act on what I feel in the moment and be spontaneous. Texts throughout the day sometimes works well, but even when they do, she responds very non sexually. She may hint that she happy about what I am saying, accepting, but she never seems to respond sexually. It seem very unnatural for her to do so. I wish that passion you describe was there, I would be a much happier man. I will often put the idea in her head very early in the day what I want to do later. Sometimes she is naked in bed when I get out of the shower. Other times she can not seem to even close and lock the bedroom door so we can be alone.


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## 482

RandomDude said:


> My girlfriend and I say no to each other all the time, in fact we say it more times than we say yes. We also never ask, we just... do. But no = yes for us, our real NO is our safe words. Our little dynamic I guess.
> 
> She also says she likes my approach, as asking for sex is not sexy. Rather, seduce her, tease her until she can't take it anymore and begs for you inside her. We always laugh about how alot of people still ask for sex, it should just blend into your time together and should be no different to spontaneous touches affection and cuddles.


You are correct, I need to stop asking for sex spontaneously in the moment when I feel it, it never seems to end well. The gradual build up seems to work well with her. That and not expecting her to initiate. Sometimes I will build up through the day and hope she will initiate later, she very rarely does, this is another bad thing I am doing.


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## I shouldnthave

Ill just say, from my experiences, my observations, it tends to be harder for women. 

I feel I have a bit of a unique perspective in that I grew up a tom boy. My parents were... new age hippies. My friends were always boys, men, and I didn’t feel constrained by social norms to “act like a lady”. 

It made it easy for me to be confident in my sexuality. To be very clear, perhaps dictate what I desired sexually. I was never ashamed of my sexual desire. I find it empowering. 

But I have also observed different ways other women were raised. How sexual desire was vilified and oppressed. Sex was this thing men wanted, and as a women, you should protect yourself from it. Withold, control etc. 

Case in point? I am often shocked by how many women say that they do not masturbate, and have no desire too. 

How many men can say the same?

I am not saying your girlfriend is right and you are wrong. But I guess I am saying, for many women is more complicated. It’s years of indoctrination. It’s oppression. Its being out of tune with the physical self. 

And.... it sucks! It’s not fair to either party, but it’s so deep seated, it can be hard to fix.


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## 482

I shouldnthave said:


> How sexual desire was vilified and oppressed. Sex was this thing men wanted, and as a women, you should protect yourself from it. Withold, control etc.
> 
> Case in point? I am often shocked by how many women say that they do not masturbate, and have no desire too.


This is her 100%


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## RandomDude

482 said:


> You are correct, I need to stop asking for sex spontaneously in the moment when I feel it, it never seems to end well. *The gradual build up seems to work well with her. That and not expecting her to initiate. *Sometimes I will build up through the day and hope she will initiate later, she very rarely does, this is another bad thing I am doing.


And there you have it 

Reminds me of something my girlfriend and I laugh about, her family is quite conservative, and they tell her "does he ask you for sex? I wouldn't like him if he does", and she goes "nope, he never asks me for sex", and when she told me that, I said "that's right, I never ask for sex, I just seduce you instead" lol

A typical day has us being quite affectionate, holding hands, kissing randomly, all this is also *VERY* important for us. So try it, show your wife how much you love her with non sexual touches, show her that you cherish her, and not just her sexual parts but her hands, her hair, her lips, her eyes, her neck, etc etc. These all add to the buildup. Flirt with her, tease her, make suggestions, tease her some more. When we are out on a date we obviously can't do anything in public but that is ironically the best time to start the sexual tension.

Sexual touches should progress naturally from non sexual touches. For me personally though I like to tease, a lot. I touch her everywhere but where she wants it the most, even though she tries to make me touch her by grabbing my hand lol. I initiate, but never go all the way, I drive her wild enough to finish the steps herself out of pure lust. That's only when I actually go all the way, otherwise where's the fun?


----------



## Rowan

482 said:


> Foreplay is not an issue but sometimes I just want to act on what I feel in the moment and be spontaneous. Texts throughout the day sometimes works well, but even when they do, she responds very non sexually. She may hint that she happy about what I am saying, accepting, but she never seems to respond sexually. It seem very unnatural for her to do so. I wish that passion you describe was there, I would be a much happier man. I will often put the idea in her head very early in the day what I want to do later. Sometimes she is naked in bed when I get out of the shower. Other times she can not seem to even close and lock the bedroom door so we can be alone.


Honestly, OP, it really sounds to me as if the two of you are not just sexually compatible. You want her to have the same level of desire you do, and to express it in the same ways. Your girlfriend just isn't that woman. Sexual compatibility is important to a relationship, and you two just don't have it. That's not her fault. Nor is it your fault. No one is the bad guy here. But you two aren't compatible in a fundamental way that's going to make sustaining your loving relationship difficult if not impossible. 

Now, you can spend years, even decades, of your life in constant conflict over sex. You'll keep pushing and pressuring her be more like you, and being resentful, sullen, and angry when she isn't. She will grow to resent your constant message of "you aren't enough," and will gradually withdraw from you even more, knowing that you don't think she measures up. Sadly, you can keep up this nasty game of passive-aggression pretty much forever. But you won't like each other anymore well before forever comes. Trying to make your partner into someone else is simply a losing proposition the vast majority of the time, and the effort will destroy all the good parts of the relationship. 

It would be far better to part while things are still relatively cordial. She can go find someone who thinks she's perfect as she is, who won't constantly wish she were different or be angered by her failure to become someone else. You can go find someone who matches your sexual drive and will never turn you down or deny your need for spontaneity. And, in the end, you'll both be far happier for spending your lives with more compatible partners.


----------



## badsanta

482 said:


> I get a no from her about 7 out of 10 times I initiate. This starts a spiral of fighting for us most times....


 @482 please edit you original post if this is not correct and she only says no 3 out of 10 times. Some folks (like me) only read the original post when offering advice.


----------



## Rowan

badsanta said:


> @482 been in those shoes before. Your wife is likely craving nonsexual intimacy while at the same time avoiding it in fear you will initiate sexual intimacy when that is not what she needs.
> 
> Try doing the opposite of initiating sex. Go to her and tell her that no way you can get in the mood today. See if she perks up and how she behaves?
> 
> As for how to increase the frequency of intimacy, it is important to first work on understanding each others capacity to enjoy sexual intimacy. You also have to acknowledge that pushing someone beyond their natural frequency is equally as problematic as holding someone back. If your wife demanded sex tens times a day, everyday... that would be problematic for any man and would likely make you feel like she does not care about you as a person because she would get angry and frustrated when you are unable to get an erection repeatedly and on demand throughout the day. Eventually you would be like "can't we just hug" but no way would you try that as she would rip your pants off and ask how long will it take for you to get erect and then start fighting with you about it and walk away angry.
> 
> I'm exaggerating a bit, but that should paint a picture to help you see things from a different point of view. Once you do that it may help you discuss things with your spouse as your problem is indeed common.
> 
> Regards,
> Badsanta



The OP later came back and clarified that what you quoted from his first post above is a mistake. In actuality, she says "yes" 7 out of 10 times. It's the 3/10 "no" ratio that he's actually working with that is bothering him so much.


----------



## badsanta

Rowan said:


> The OP later came back and clarified that what you quoted from his first post above is a mistake. In actuality, she says "yes" 7 out of 10 times. It's the 3/10 "no" ratio that he's actually working with that is bothering him so much.


Well that paints a different picture. He should have edited his OP. 

Thanks @Rowan


----------



## 482

badsanta said:


> @482 please edit you original post if this is not correct and she only says no 3 out of 10 times. Some folks (like me) only read the original post when offering advice.


Sorry I fixed it. I'm back on a computer now and the phone would not allow me to fox it earlier.


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## 335289

482 said:


> Sorry I fixed it. I'm back on a computer now and the phone would not allow me to fox it earlier.


I suppose, how often do you get intimate, is an important detail. 

My ex would only be intimate about four times a year. I could increase that by applying pressure, but, look, if you have to badger your significant other to put out, you are not going to get the kind of sex you really want. 

My girlfriend and I want to be intimate with each other, and we have more sex in any given week than I had in twenty-five years of marriage, and it is incredibly hot. If this, what I have, is what you want, find another woman because the one you have is a loser. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## happiness27

the guy said:


> I agree with Bigtoe….chicks dig confident men....so take them on Wed. and Sat. or take them over the work bench, kitchen table, and even the office desk.
> 
> At the end of the day it's their choice to except the "confidence" you have to offer or be on their way!
> 
> 
> That's my $0.02


Seriously true. I'm one of those women who digs confidence. I understand the weird push-pull dynamic - but when it comes down to it, a thorough understanding of the vast prairie of a woman's erogenous zones and how to navigate that is a HUGE turn on. HIM being horny and turned on drives me wild. 

Some guy here on TAM said he once whipped it out and started masturbating in front of her when she got lazy and said no, and I can't get that sexy image out of my head.


----------



## 482

IronHamster said:


> I suppose, how often do you get intimate, is an important detail.
> 
> My ex would only be intimate about four times a year. I could increase that by applying pressure, but, look, if you have to badger your significant other to put out, you are not going to get the kind of sex you really want.
> 
> My girlfriend and I want to be intimate with each other, and we have more sex in any given week than I had in twenty-five years of marriage, and it is incredibly hot. If this, what I have, is what you want, find another woman because the one you have is a loser.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk




Intimacy frequency is 2-3 times a week on average if we are not in battle mode. When we are fighting we can go weeks without sexual contact. 

Sorry to hear in your previous relationship this only got intimate 4 times a year. I would rather go through a nasty divorce than live under conditions like that given my sex drive. 

I am not ready to find another woman because I think we can work our our issues. If I am wrong I will admit that and look for a better fit when I am ready.


----------



## Young at Heart

482 said:


> I am guessing you do not hear no in your relationship therefore suggest I end my relationship to seek a similar relationship? Am I correct?


A couple of thoughts from a guy who has been there. 

First, get, read, and study Glover's book, No More Mr. Nice Guy. Transform yourself into an integrated man who is confident and is not looking for some woman to sexually validate you. Find things to do, activities, and people who bring you real joy and a feeling of accomplishment. Needy men, especially sexually needy/demanding men are not sexy. They often appear weak and unattractive.

Second get, read and study David Schnarch's book Intimacy and Desire. It explains how the low sex desire partner always controls the frequency of sex. His other books point out that in every relationship there is a low desire and a high desire partner for every aspect of a marriage. For a married couple this high/low "conflict my involve the number of children, the frequency of sex, how much Sunday TV football is watched, or how much chocolate ice cream is had for desert each week. As he points out everything in a relationship is a compromise and what might work for a couple one year will absolutely not work the next such as frequency of sex before small children may not work once children need to be taken care of. My wife's favorite observation from reading that book is that if we weren't pressuring each other over sex, we would probably be disagreeing about finances or dinner menus. So learn to compromise, negotiate and communicate.

Once you have done your home work, talk to your girl/woman friend. Explain to her that you find the current form of rejection of sexual advances hard on your relationship with her. Work with her on ways that she can still say no that will not emotionally hurt you. Have her take some responsibility for initiating, perhaps if she is in the mood on certain specific days. Alternately it could be as simple as instead of her saying no, having her say, that she is not in the mood at the moment, but that you had better get some sleep as she is going to "F" your brains out either tomorrow morning or tomorrow night and then giving you a big hug and kiss.

Good luck.


----------



## Young at Heart

482 said:


> Intimacy frequency is 2-3 times a week on average if we are not in battle mode. When we are fighting we can go weeks without sexual contact.
> 
> .....I am not ready to find another woman because I think we can work our our issues. If I am wrong I will admit that and look for a better fit when I am ready.


You do realize that 2-3 times a week is something many guys on this forum would give a testicle for. You are looking at your half-full glass as half-empty. If sex frequency in women is a bell shaped curve, you are looking for a partner in a relatively small pool of partners. If you want a certain body type or background that will make the pool even smaller.

You also need to understand that you can't change anyone. Only they can change themselves and only if it is something they want to change and make part of their life. You can change yourself, you can communicate and negotiate, but you can not change someone else. Start figuring out ways to change yourself or your situation so that you will get what you really need, not what you want, but what you need. What you really need may not be as much sex as you think. A person's biggest sex organ is their mind.

There are lots of stories about men who go to prostitutes and mostly just talk to someone who will make them feel cherished and cared about. Sex is important, but after a certain amount, other things may become more important.

In Chapman's 5 languages of love, sex isn't even included in the list.

Good luck.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Young at Heart said:


> You do realize that 2-3 times a week is something many guys on this forum would *give a testicle* for.



Wouldn't that kinda' defeat the purpose?:laugh:


----------



## 482

Young at Heart said:


> You do realize that 2-3 times a week is something many guys on this forum would give a testicle for. You are looking at your half-full glass as half-empty. If sex frequency in women is a bell shaped curve, you are looking for a partner in a relatively small pool of partners. If you want a certain body type or background that will make the pool even smaller.
> 
> 
> 
> You also need to understand that you can't change anyone. Only they can change themselves and only if it is something they want to change and make part of their life. You can change yourself, you can communicate and negotiate, but you can not change someone else. Start figuring out ways to change yourself or your situation so that you will get what you really need, not what you want, but what you need. What you really need may not be as much sex as you think. A person's biggest sex organ is their mind.
> 
> 
> 
> There are lots of stories about men who go to prostitutes and mostly just talk to someone who will make them feel cherished and cared about. Sex is important, but after a certain amount, other things may become more important.
> 
> 
> 
> In Chapman's 5 languages of love, sex isn't even included in the list.
> 
> 
> 
> Good luck.




Lol on the testicle loss that’s funny. Chapman does have sex but it’s combined with several other forms of “physical touch”


----------



## Personal

Young at Heart said:


> You do realize that 2-3 times a week is something many guys on this forum would give a testicle for. You are looking at your half-full glass as half-empty. If sex frequency in women is a bell shaped curve, you are looking for a partner in a relatively small pool of partners. If you want a certain body type or background that will make the pool even smaller.


Actually most guys on this forum, who aren't getting much if any sex at all. Wouldn't give a testicle or anything else to get more or any sex. Most of them simply like to superfluously complain about it, while their actions prove that they're fine with their status quo.

Anyway 2-3x a week sounds like a starvation diet to me.

Plus factor in that they then don't have sex for weeks at a time if they fight, which seems to be a common thing. I would say their sex life is rather poor.

Personally at this stage of my life, there is no way I would settle for the sparsity of 2-3x a week.

My wife (48) and I (47) after being together for 22½ years (married 19¾ years), still share sex at a frequency of 4-6x a week and do 7-9x a week fairly often as well.

In our experience it's really not difficult to have plenty of sex, even with us both working full time jobs, with our children living at home combined with busy lives.


----------



## Girl_power

Women here. I haven’t read the entire thread but saying yes 7/10 to me is normal. I think an important question is though is this 10x you initiate in a span of a week or 3 weeks? That makes a difference. 
Another thing is does she initiate? My ex would initiate when it was a bad time for me. So yes I said no to him what seemed like a lot, but On the flip side I initiated when it was a good time for me.


----------



## Girl_power

482 said:


> Thank you for your comment I was definitely much more confident before this started. Also I understand what you are describing about remaining high value. Just want to make sure you caught that I made a mistake in my original post. She says yes 7 out of 10 times, not no. When I tell her I am not happy with her saying no and describe why she says things like I want her to be my sex slave. This to me is super crazy and a huge turn off. I would never want to have sex with someone who does not want to have sex with me. I do not want a sex slave I want a partner who desires me sexually as much as I desire them.




I agree with your girlfriend.

I think your unrealistic. No one has equal desire all the time. 

And just to get you to think about something. One day you might have low desire, and she has higher desire. Imagine her complaining to you about how she is unhappy when you are doing the best you can for her. It will make you feel less of a man, and it will make you feel pretty low. My point is, keep it up and she won’t want to have sex with you anymore because of your shaming her and making her feel not good enough.


----------



## Girl_power

RandomDude said:


> She also says she likes my approach, as asking for sex is not sexy. Rather, seduce her, tease her until she can't take it anymore and begs for you inside her. We always laugh about how alot of people still ask for sex, it should just blend into your time together and should be no different to spontaneous touches affection and cuddles.




This 100%!!!!! God please don’t ask!!


----------



## 482

Girl_power said:


> Women here. I haven’t read the entire thread but saying yes 7/10 to me is normal. I think an important question is though is this 10x you initiate in a span of a week or 3 weeks? That makes a difference.
> Another thing is does she initiate? My ex would initiate when it was a bad time for me. So yes I said no to him what seemed like a lot, but On the flip side I initiated when it was a good time for me.




The 10 times would probably be about 2 weeks time. She just about never initiates on her own.


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## Wolf1974

Unless she doesn’t feel good or she is running out the door to work never told no. But I am also not married. My marriage, while not horrible, was not that way.


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## frusdil

I've been with my husband for 7 years, married for 5. I've never turned him down for sex. Ever.


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## AVR1962

56 year old women here, married twice. First husband was constantly after me and at times we would have sex several times in one day. I did turn him down. We had to do something besides have sex, lol!!!! Second husband, I was the initiator and in our 27 years together I do not think he came to me even a dozen times for sex, lots of unfortunate circumstances there. Have been in a relationship for over a year and have not turned down my boyfriend once. I can say that becoming older, having my kids out of the home and being more free to focus on me and what I want from life I have had more interest in sex than when I was younger and the demands of mom and home were always a pressure for me.


----------



## MaiChi

I agree with FeministInPink
I think in the home there should be both coded messages and direct messages about sex. 
my husband knows that if I say "Lets go to bed. " I mean I want us to have sex. If i get upstairs and he is slow to follow, i text him the "I am waiting " message. If he is late coming home, I wait till he gets home before going to bed. If he is busy with paper work from work, I wait for him and let him know I am waiting. 

I also know when he is frisky by his behaviours. 

But sometimes, for example in the mornings, there may be no words spoken, just listening a cuddle by one or other may lead to sex. 
Still he sometimes needs to say directly that he wants sex. It is nice to hear him say he wants sex. Also nice to tease him about it at times. 

What people who complain about wives or husbands saying NO mean is that the communication that used to be there is no longer there. 

As far as I know from listening to hundreds of women, most women like to please their men even though few men want to return the compliment. It is just that most women do not get excited by the thought of being taken for granted. I know that he knows I want him, but I don't like him assuming that I want him. He must take part in the decision to have sex. He must ask, even if he knows the answer. I like I like him to be desperate for my body. 

Also a husband should start building up to it early in the evening and not five minutes before we are due. Comments about a body part, jokes, funny story, a funny look. get caught looking at something she knows you like about her. 

Me personally I like him to have a shower before he comes to bed or at some point in the evening. I like freedom of association with any f his body parts using any of my body parts.


----------



## 482

Interesting comments on this post. 

I think what some have said about one being lower desire than the other will most times be true. I think it’s important for the lower desire person to know how to say no to their partner and still relay desire for them, preserving the sexual chemistry. Alternatively it’s also important for the higher desire partner to not allow the lower desire person to get the impression that they are not good enough. It’s a balancing act this relationship thing. A balancing act between love, compassion and needs.


----------



## DTO

red oak said:


> Livvie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I feel like this could be a wild goose chase. Some women marry men they are not attracted to, physically. There will never be the right buttons to push.
> 
> 
> 
> Explain fat guys, ugly musicians, tatted up rough bikers.........women fawn over. It's the attitude, not the body. <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_smile.png" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" ></a>
Click to expand...

It might be the energy and other non-visual attributes. But, some women choose a man for security, to raise a family with, etc over someone to whom she is attracted physically.


----------



## SeattleWill

3Xnocharm said:


> Women have every right to decline if they are not feeling it for some reason. (as do men, too!) We dont all have the same desires at the same time, and our partner shouldnt make us feel terrible for that. My first husband used to get all pissed and go off on me if I turned him down, and all that crap did was make me want him less and less, eventually to the point where I stopped being with him all together. Being an ass to your partner does not create intimacy.
> 
> That said, if the declines are becoming more and more frequent, then that's when there should be concern and serious discussion to get to the bottom of things before it fizzles out completely. I cant speak for all women, but I have figured out that when my desire for my partner is decreasing, it has been due to issues within the relationship itself.


Not true if you are married. 1 Corinthians 7 is clear that neither partner is to deny the other except under extremely rare circumstances. It is irrelevant whether or not you are in the mood. If your spouse is in the mood then you have sex.


----------



## FeministInPink

SeattleWill said:


> Not true if you are married. 1 Corinthians 7 is clear that neither partner is to deny the other except under extremely rare circumstances. It is irrelevant whether or not you are in the mood. If your spouse is in the mood then you have sex.


Not everyone is Christian and subscribes to the tenets in the Bible. Perhaps that is true in your marriage, but it's not true for everyone.

And what you're saying also implies that it's ok for a man to rape his wife. And that's NOT ok. Not by any stretch of the inagination.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## personofinterest

SeattleWill said:


> Not true if you are married. 1 Corinthians 7 is clear that neither partner is to deny the other except under extremely rare circumstances. It is irrelevant whether or not you are in the mood. If your spouse is in the mood then you have sex.


I am an every day sex woman who never says no unless I am sick (I mean SICK), but your interpretation of I Cor 7 is grossssly grossly in error.

You are basically saying women don't have a choice. i think that is called rape. Yeah, I think a woman who's a bit tired should try to ramp up for her husband anyway. But "you don't get to say no" is NOT AT ALL Biblical.

It says "do not deprive each other for long periods except for prayer and fasting that is mutually agreed upon."

That does not mean you can't ever say no.

You need to learn to study the Bible in context.

Although this post might be a good example of traditional versus toxic....yikes

It would be real interesting to see how you choose to interpret Ephesians 5.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

FeministInPink said:


> Not everyone is Christian and subscribes to the tenets in the Bible. Perhaps that is true in your marriage, but it's not true for everyone.
> 
> And what you're saying also implies that it's ok for a man to rape his wife. And that's NOT ok. Not by any stretch of the inagination.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


THANK YOU!!! That post made me throw up in my mouth a little....


----------



## NorseViking

482 said:


> How many of you men out there in a relationship are told no to your sexual advances?


I know life can be tough and one can feel no lust for sex.
But, what about just some kisses and cuddling instead to keep the intimacy up?
Is that a alternative to penetration of the love canal?


----------



## 482

Religion has no place in this discussion, in my opinion. It looks like another example of someone using it to push an agenda. 

Who would want to have sex with someone who does not want to? That would suck. 

To the point about kissing and cuddling I get it and to answer that question I would say yes, it can be very good for the relationship. It prevents her from feeling like all I ever want is sex. It does not matter that for the most part I do and could have sex twice a day for the rest of my life, it’s about her. It’s about her feeling good.

We will never be 100% on the same page in regards to our desire for sex and that needs to be ok. Accept it for what it is or move on. I don’t want her walking around feeling not good enough, that will not improve the intimacy in our relationship. One thing I am starting to realize is that having amazing sex once a week can be much better than average sex three times a week.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

SeattleWill said:


> Not true if you are married. 1 Corinthians 7 is clear that neither partner is to deny the other except under extremely rare circumstances. It is irrelevant whether or not you are in the mood. If your spouse is in the mood then you have sex.


LOL.

How much cherry-picking through the Bible did you have to DO in order to find this *self-serving* gem? Is this how you get your wife to touch you - you guilt her into it with scripture that dictates she become your f***-doll whenever you get an itch that needs to be scratched?

:rofl::rofl::rofl:


----------



## MJJEAN

She'sStillGotIt said:


> LOL.
> 
> How much cherry-picking through the Bible did you have to DO in order to find this *self-serving* gem? Is this how you get your wife to touch you - you guilt her into it with scripture that dictates she become your f***-doll whenever you get an itch that needs to be scratched?
> 
> :rofl::rofl::rofl:


Actually, it's not self serving. The idea is the married couple serve each other with loving and open hearts.

Marriage is a sexual relationship. For those who are Christian and religious, marriage is a lifelong monogamous sexual relationship that cannot be dissolved by man. During the act of marrying, husband and wife are consenting to sex along with all of the other responsibilities, duties, and obligations of marriage. The scripture makes it very clear that neither husband nor wife should deny the other sex within their marriage without either the sexless period being mutually consented to or there being a reason such as illness or injury. Considering sex pair bonds us and has many other documented physical and mental/emotional benefits, I think Scripture is wise in this.

The problem is not the Scripture. The problem is when people marry without the desire for sex, in general, or sex with their partner, in particular, or when one or both spouses have damaged the bond so severely it cannot be repaired.


----------



## AVR1962

SeattleWill said:


> Not true if you are married. 1 Corinthians 7 is clear that neither partner is to deny the other except under extremely rare circumstances. It is irrelevant whether or not you are in the mood. If your spouse is in the mood then you have sex.


And this does not keep a marriage together. Just because a spouse submits, feeling this is their duty or obligation to keep the marriage good or to make their spouse happy is not going to keep the marriage from becoming sour, one or the either spouse feeling used or bitter towards the other.


----------



## personofinterest

MJJEAN said:


> Actually, it's not self serving. The idea is the married couple serve each other with loving and open hearts.
> 
> Marriage is a sexual relationship. For those who are Christian and religious, marriage is a lifelong monogamous sexual relationship that cannot be dissolved by man. During the act of marrying, husband and wife are consenting to sex along with all of the other responsibilities, duties, and obligations of marriage. The scripture makes it very clear that neither husband nor wife should deny the other sex within their marriage without either the sexless period being mutually consented to or there being a reason such as illness or injury. Considering sex pair bonds us and has many other documented physical and mental/emotional benefits, I think Scripture is wise in this.
> 
> The problem is not the Scripture. The problem is when people marry without the desire for sex, in general, or sex with their partner, in particular, or when one or both spouses have damaged the bond so severely it cannot be repaired.



I agree, but another problem is the spouse who uses a verse here or there to brow-beat their spouse into submission. Like the way some men use Ephesians 5 as an excuse to bully and control and abuse their wives.


----------



## Diana7

FeministInPink said:


> Not everyone is Christian and subscribes to the tenets in the Bible. Perhaps that is true in your marriage, but it's not true for everyone.
> 
> And what you're saying also implies that it's ok for a man to rape his wife. And that's NOT ok. Not by any stretch of the inagination.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


God is very wise, and there are good reasons he says that each shouldn't deprive the other of sex. Clearly there are times when that isn't possible though illness, disability, having recently given birth etc, but its perfectly possible to have sex because our spouse wants to, whether we 'feel' like it or not. 
When I married 13 years ago I made a decision that I would never reject my husband sexually. He had been rejected many times by his former wife, and I wasn't going to do that. So far I have kept to that. 

We see all the time on this forum how unhappy people are that their spouse wont have sex with them, and how much it damaged marriages. Whether we are Christians or not, we are all humans created by Him and He knows what is best for us. And no, no one is saying that rape is ok.


----------



## Diana7

personofinterest said:


> I agree, but another problem is the spouse who uses a verse here or there to brow-beat their spouse into submission. Like the way some men use Ephesians 5 as an excuse to bully and control and abuse their wives.


The problem there is with the husband or wife and not the verses.


----------



## Diana7

AVR1962 said:


> And this does not keep a marriage together. Just because a spouse submits, feeling this is their duty or obligation to keep the marriage good or to make their spouse happy is not going to keep the marriage from becoming sour, one or the either spouse feeling used or bitter towards the other.


Nothing wrong with having sex because your spouse wants sex. Why shouldn't I want to keep my spouse happy and the marriage strong? Even if I may not be 'in the mood', I never turn him down, and I never feel used by him because he is my husband and I love and respect him.


----------



## FeministInPink

MJJEAN said:


> Actually, it's not self serving. The idea is the married couple serve each other with loving and open hearts.
> 
> 
> 
> Marriage is a sexual relationship. For those who are Christian and religious, marriage is a lifelong monogamous sexual relationship that cannot be dissolved by man. During the act of marrying, husband and wife are consenting to sex along with all of the other responsibilities, duties, and obligations of marriage. The scripture makes it very clear that neither husband nor wife should deny the other sex within their marriage without either the sexless period being mutually consented to or there being a reason such as illness or injury. Considering sex pair bonds us and has many other documented physical and mental/emotional benefits, I think Scripture is wise in this.
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is not the Scripture. The problem is when people marry without the desire for sex, in general, or sex with their partner, in particular, or when one or both spouses have damaged the bond so severely it cannot be repaired.


And this shows how so many things are subject to interpretation. 

Your interpretation of this verse is clearly different from the other person who initially brought it up--or so it would appear from your comment and his comment. (Both of which are subject to interpretation as well.)

Your interpretation is that out of love and commitment, both partners should willingly engage in sex, even when not in the mood, for the mutual benefit of the relationship and one another's emotional and mental well-being.

The other person's interpretation is: "I don't give a crap if she wants to or not, she has to have sex with me when I want it because she's my wife, and the Bible says she has to."

Pretty big difference there.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## Diana7

MJJEAN said:


> Actually, it's not self serving. The idea is the married couple serve each other with loving and open hearts.
> 
> Marriage is a sexual relationship. For those who are Christian and religious, marriage is a lifelong monogamous sexual relationship that cannot be dissolved by man. During the act of marrying, husband and wife are consenting to sex along with all of the other responsibilities, duties, and obligations of marriage. The scripture makes it very clear that neither husband nor wife should deny the other sex within their marriage without either the sexless period being mutually consented to or there being a reason such as illness or injury. Considering sex pair bonds us and has many other documented physical and mental/emotional benefits, I think Scripture is wise in this.
> 
> The problem is not the Scripture. The problem is when people marry without the desire for sex, in general, or sex with their partner, in particular, or when one or both spouses have damaged the bond so severely it cannot be repaired.


Agreed, although there are certain reasons why a marriage can end. Such as adultery/sexual immorality.


----------



## Diana7

She'sStillGotIt said:


> LOL.
> 
> How much cherry-picking through the Bible did you have to DO in order to find this *self-serving* gem? Is this how you get your wife to touch you - you guilt her into it with scripture that dictates she become your f***-doll whenever you get an itch that needs to be scratched?
> 
> :rofl::rofl::rofl:


Verses about marriage and sex are not cheery picking, but very wise advise. Its not self serving at all, but for the good of the marriage.


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## Herschel

Nothing sexier than spouting bible verses to get laid.


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## personofinterest

Diana7 said:


> The problem there is with the husband or wife and not the verses.


Um....yeah, I get that . That was why I agreed with the poster who said the same thing.


----------



## 269370

FeministInPink said:


> And this shows how so many things are subject to interpretation.
> 
> Your interpretation of this verse is clearly different from the other person who initially brought it up--or so it would appear from your comment and his comment. (Both of which are subject to interpretation as well.)
> 
> Your interpretation is that out of love and commitment, both partners should willingly engage in sex, even when not in the mood, for the mutual benefit of the relationship and one another's emotional and mental well-being.
> 
> The other person's interpretation is: "I don't give a crap if she wants to or not, she has to have sex with me when I want it because she's my wife, and the Bible says she has to."
> 
> Pretty big difference there.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk



And another minor complication is that the person to whom the God may have spoken (who wrote it all down), could have misinterpreted something too...Provided they didn’t just make it up in the first place. So arguing what God may have said or meant seems similar to playing Chinese Whispers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## uhtred

Agreed. Part of it is the fuzziness of phrases like "doesn't want sex". It can mean "doesn't particularly want it right now, because they would rather read facebook", or it could mean "sex now would be a horrible degrading experience". 

I think its a separate situation if its is "actively don't want sex", and "would rather do something else". 




FeministInPink said:


> And this shows how so many things are subject to interpretation.
> 
> Your interpretation of this verse is clearly different from the other person who initially brought it up--or so it would appear from your comment and his comment. (Both of which are subject to interpretation as well.)
> 
> Your interpretation is that out of love and commitment, both partners should willingly engage in sex, even when not in the mood, for the mutual benefit of the relationship and one another's emotional and mental well-being.
> 
> The other person's interpretation is: "I don't give a crap if she wants to or not, she has to have sex with me when I want it because she's my wife, and the Bible says she has to."
> 
> Pretty big difference there.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## personofinterest

uhtred said:


> Agreed. Part of it is the fuzziness of phrases like "doesn't want sex". It can mean "doesn't particularly want it right now, because they would rather read facebook", or it could mean "sex now would be a horrible degrading experience".
> 
> I think its a separate situation if its is "actively don't want sex", and "would rather do something else".


Exactly. If a woman is browsing Facebook and waves off her husband because this cat picture is cute, she needs to put down the phone! lol

If her trip to get her yearly mammogram that day ended up with the doctor scheduling more testing because he was concerned about an area and she is upset because her mother died from breast cancer, then don't push it. (And yes, I know a "man" who insisted his wife service him on this exact type of evening.)


----------



## LeGenDary_Man

482 said:


> How many of you men out there in a relationship are told no to your sexual advances? I'm not wondering about the times when its real or relevant like when someone is sick or something. I am talking about when it just makes no sense, like the desire is not there. I have described my situation in other posts but I will give a quick overview here for background on the question. I get a yes from her about 7 out of 10 times I initiate. When she says no this starts a spiral of fighting for us most times but i digress. I am wondering how common this is for men on TAM? I wonder if some people have relationships where the desire is mutual and they never experience this type of dynamic at all or if this is just a common thing I am experiencing very late in life (I am almost 40)?


You need to keep in mind following factors. The wife is tired at the time due to lot of prior activity (lack of energy); when you are initiating (timing); the environment is encouraging (kids away; you two alone in your bedroom); or you conveyed your intentions to your wife in advance that you will make your move today at some point (communication). It is better to create a romantic/encouraging environment _first_, or to try to get her in the mood.

Out of the blue advances may or may not work each time. The wife might give in at times but not always depending upon the aforementioned factors.


----------



## Dave25

482 said:


> How many of you men out there in a relationship are told no to your sexual advances? I'm not wondering about the times when its real or relevant like when someone is sick or something. I am talking about when it just makes no sense, like the desire is not there. I have described my situation in other posts but I will give a quick overview here for background on the question. I get a yes from her about 7 out of 10 times I initiate. When she says no this starts a spiral of fighting for us most times but i digress. I am wondering how common this is for men on TAM? I wonder if some people have relationships where the desire is mutual and they never experience this type of dynamic at all or if this is just a common thing I am experiencing very late in life (I am almost 40)?


We have a marriage in which we share our bodies freely. We belong to the other. That means no one ever says no, barring sickness, or something similar. Her body is mine, and mine is hers. Sharing our physical affection is a responsibility to the other, and not just something to do for ourselves. I would recommend that kind of sharing in any marriage, as it truly reflects what it means to become one, and it also helps bring peace, trust, and delight in a marriage. 

Dave


----------



## Casual Observer

personofinterest said:


> Exactly. If a woman is browsing Facebook and waves off her husband because this cat picture is cute, she needs to put down the phone! lol
> 
> If her trip to get her yearly mammogram that day ended up with the doctor scheduling more testing because he was concerned about an area and she is upset because her mother died from breast cancer, then don't push it. (And yes, I know a "man" who insisted his wife service him on this exact type of evening.)


That "man" might have had in his mind all the drivel he'd read about how sex is good for women when they're depressed for this-and-that reason. Articles written for women but twisted around when read by men to make it seem like their wife "needs" them to have sex so she'll be better, and the only reason she's not better is because she's not having sex often enough.


----------



## Why Bother

Something that needs to be understood is as someone mentioned before a woman needs to be warmed up. Because you want sex right then and then to get an attitude becausr she doesnt have a switch to put someone to the same level of excitement you are. 

A woman needs to feel like she is more than just a body part or to be more than to just serve a grown persons needs. 

You said there are 3 children she had 4 other humans demanding of her affection, attention, and requiring her to take care of them in some form. Often times after the task of children a eoman doesnt have the frame of mind of feeling sexual and sex is the last thing in her mind to get off her feet to stop having someone asking something from her and sleep.

Often times it isnt the right spontaneous time there are other obligations. Not to mention a huge turn off for s woman id when she is only noticed or thst there is time for her is because of a desire for sex. Cant help or talk to her or there is something on tv or once you get what you need she feels tossed to the side no linger serves a purpose until the next time.


Then again it could be that she cares more for you as a human because you are a good caring living person. However, the sex is lack luster and may be not be the type that just needs to get off.


----------



## lovelygirl

Why Bother said:


> Something that needs to be understood is as someone mentioned before a woman needs to be warmed up. Because you want sex right then and then to get an attitude becausr she doesnt have a switch to put someone to the same level of excitement you are.


totally agreed.

Sometimes, men forget that the woman is not a toy to be switched on at that very moment, ESPECIALLY if the man hasn't given her attention throughout the day, hasn't made her feel loved, hasn't flirted ...so in a sentence - hasn't shown affection outside the bedroom. 

Rarely does a woman say no and whe she does, it's because she doesn't feel valued for more than just the bedroom duties.


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## uhtred

Unfortunately that isn't always true. Some women (and men) just naturally have very low levels of desire for sex. 



lovelygirl said:


> totally agreed.
> 
> Sometimes, men forget that the woman is not a toy to be switched on at that very moment, ESPECIALLY if the man hasn't given her attention throughout the day, hasn't made her feel loved, hasn't flirted ...so in a sentence - hasn't shown affection outside the bedroom.
> 
> Rarely does a woman say no and whe she does, it's because she doesn't feel valued for more than just the bedroom duties.


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## Anastasia6

482 said:


> How many of you men out there in a relationship are told no to your sexual advances? I'm not wondering about the times when its real or relevant like when someone is sick or something. I am talking about when it just makes no sense, like the desire is not there. I have described my situation in other posts but I will give a quick overview here for background on the question. I get a yes from her about 7 out of 10 times I initiate. When she says no this starts a spiral of fighting for us most times but i digress. I am wondering how common this is for men on TAM? I wonder if some people have relationships where the desire is mutual and they never experience this type of dynamic at all or if this is just a common thing I am experiencing very late in life (I am almost 40)?


Woman here
Yes 7 out of 10 times. 3 no's. Ugh then you pitch a little fit. I can tell you my husband at times experienced this. He's also experienced 100% yeses. I think this depends on how often you initiate. I mean if you are initiating daily or more than once a day I'd say you can expect some no's. Once a week at good times where you have been being a good partner then 3 no's out of ten not so expected. 

I can tell you someone starting a fight over me not wanting to have sex would have been done. I'd be out I'm not your *****, sex slave or want to be in a relationship where the only thing I bring to the table is sex. Of course I've been in my relationship longer (25 years) so we have probably had a lot more reasons for me being out of the mood. Like child birth, rearing, vaginal tearing, death of a close parent, very stressful job, only getting 4 hours sleep, and the list goes on. 

And for your survey, while I do initiate now mostly I like him to initiate. It makes me feel womanly and makes me see him as a man. Him taking it like a man when I don't feel like it makes me want him more the next time I'm in the mood. Makes me do things to him men appreciate. Because I do love him and I do desire him sexually and I do want to please him. But it doesn't happen everytime at the same time he might want it to.


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## Dave25

482 said:


> How many of you men out there in a relationship are told no to your sexual advances? I'm not wondering about the times when its real or relevant like when someone is sick or something. I am talking about when it just makes no sense, like the desire is not there. I have described my situation in other posts but I will give a quick overview here for background on the question. I get a yes from her about 7 out of 10 times I initiate. When she says no this starts a spiral of fighting for us most times but i digress. I am wondering how common this is for men on TAM? I wonder if some people have relationships where the desire is mutual and they never experience this type of dynamic at all or if this is just a common thing I am experiencing very late in life (I am almost 40)?


There really is no "no" in our intimate relationship. We recognize sharing intimate affection as a responsibility to our partner, and not merely something to do if we spontaneously have the desire. Our bodies are shared property, so a "no" would be holding back what already belongs to the other person, or in fact an injustice. We share our bodies completely freely, and have great happiness, trust, and closeness this way. We are one flesh, not two.

We also view the whole of our relationship as a matter of our responsibilities and not just a matter of our personal desires, so we do out best to fulfill our responsibilities to the other. We want to do our job. As my wife is a submissive partner, she doesn't responds to me with a "no" in general anyway, but with a constant "yes," with the natural exception of if I were to ask her to do something evil. It is a fruitful and harmonious partnership. My wife and I are one.

You can almost be guaranteed, by the way, that when one partner is withholding from the other, that there will be friction in the relationship. There will grow bad attitudes. There will be bitterness, resentment, anger, and coldness. Over time, this can build up to a very hard heart and lack of love. I truly feel sorry for marriages that experience this, especially in the long term. There is great peace and delight in sharing affection freely.


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## BioFury

Anastasia6 said:


> Woman here
> Yes 7 out of 10 times. 3 no's. Ugh then you pitch a little fit. I can tell you my husband at times experienced this. He's also experienced 100% yeses. I think this depends on how often you initiate. I mean if you are initiating daily or more than once a day I'd say you can expect some no's. Once a week at good times where you have been being a good partner then 3 no's out of ten not so expected.
> 
> I can tell you someone starting a fight over me not wanting to have sex would have been done. *I'd be out. I'm not your *****, sex slave or want to be in a relationship where the only thing I bring to the table is sex.* Of course I've been in my relationship longer (25 years) so we have probably had a lot more reasons for me being out of the mood. Like child birth, rearing, vaginal tearing, death of a close parent, very stressful job, only getting 4 hours sleep, and the list goes on.
> 
> And for your survey, while I do initiate now mostly I like him to initiate. It makes me feel womanly and makes me see him as a man. Him taking it like a man when I don't feel like it makes me want him more the next time I'm in the mood. Makes me do things to him men appreciate. Because I do love him and I do desire him sexually and I do want to please him. But it doesn't happen everytime at the same time he might want it to.


I can't imagine what would happen if men felt the same way about going to work.

"Nah, not feeling it this week honey."


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## Anastasia6

BioFury said:


> I can't imagine what would happen if men felt the same way about going to work.
> 
> "Nah, not feeling it this week honey."


Is this supposed to imply women don't work? I work more hours than my husband. I often times don't feel like going to work,

Or is it supposed to imply that if a woman happens to be a SAHM who studies have shown work a hell of alot more than most 9-5 ers that they are then obligated to provide sex when ever the 'worker' wants it? That it is somehow now their job? Why wouldn't every sane person want to have sex when BOTH partners are ready for it and into it? Good sex leads to more good sex. Having someone think it is their right because they have a job would just lead to resentment.


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## BioFury

Anastasia6 said:


> Is this supposed to imply women don't work? I work more hours than my husband. I often times don't feel like going to work,
> 
> Or is it supposed to imply that if a woman happens to be a SAHM who studies have shown work a hell of alot more than most 9-5 ers that they are then obligated to provide sex when ever the 'worker' wants it? That it is somehow now their job? Why wouldn't every sane person want to have sex when BOTH partners are ready for it and into it? Good sex leads to more good sex. Having someone think it is their right because they have a job would just lead to resentment.


Not at all. It's meant to draw attention to the fact that both partners have needs. At times, women such as yourself disregard a man's need for sex because your "not a sex slave", while at the same time expecting him to fulfill your needs and expectations on a daily basis. Whether that be going to work, taking care of your kids, telling you he loves you, kissing you, or talking to you.


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## Anastasia6

BioFury said:


> Not at all. It's meant to draw attention to the fact that both partners have needs. At times, women such as yourself disregard a man's need for sex because your "not a sex slave", while at the same time expecting him to fulfill your needs and expectations on a daily basis. Whether that be going to work, taking care of your kids, telling you he loves you, kissing you, or talking to you.


women like me ignoring my husbands needs. LOL. My husband is beyond wonderful. And does spend a lot of time fulfilling my needs. He's amazing. But you thing He fulfills all my needs all the time you are insane. AND I don't throw a ***** fit when he doesn't. We work as a team. I have sex with him anywhere from 5-10 times a week. I give him head. I stop him coming out of the shower and do a soap check just for fun. I stimulate him and ride him to his third orgasm in a day even though he's ok if it doesn't happen cause well he's 50 and as he says it was fun even without an orgasm. But hey there are days and times I'm not feeling it. GUESSS what there are days and times he's not feeling it and I also don't throw a ***** fit then either. I got turned down just last night. He wasn't up for number 4 ! It's called a relationship, for me a marriage. We love each other do the best for each other and above all ACCEPT each other as we are. It's how we've lasted 25 years without fight, stress or the other bull**** people come on here complaining about their SO's. Look at my post history. You'll see I started here years ago trying to find out about sex swings so I could have more sex without hurting his back. So yeah, there are many men that would hate being married to a selfish independent women LIKE ME. SHeesh


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## BioFury

Anastasia6 said:


> women like me ignoring my husbands needs. LOL. My husband is beyond wonderful. And does spend a lot of time fulfilling my needs. He's amazing. But you thing He fulfills all my needs all the time you are insane. AND I don't throw a ***** fit when he doesn't. We work as a team. I have sex with him anywhere from 5-10 times a week. I give him head. I stop him coming out of the shower and do a soap check just for fun. I stimulate him and ride him to his third orgasm in a day even though he's ok if it doesn't happen cause well he's 50 and as he says it was fun even without an orgasm. But hey there are days and times I'm not feeling it. GUESSS what there are days and times he's not feeling it and I also don't throw a ***** fit then either. I got turned down just last night. He wasn't up for number 4 ! It's called a relationship, for me a marriage. We love each other do the best for each other and above all ACCEPT each other as we are. It's how we've lasted 25 years without fight, stress or the other bull**** people come on here complaining about their SO's. Look at my post history. You'll see I started here years ago trying to find out about sex swings so I could have more sex without hurting his back. So yeah, there are many men that would hate being married to a selfish independent women LIKE ME. SHeesh


Ma'am, you're taking my post a lot harsher than intended. I'm not attacking you. I'm asserting that the rationale "I'm not his slave", is a weak argument for not meeting a husband's emotional needs as often as he'd like.


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## frusdil

I have only ever said no to my husband once, and that was because he hadn't showered for a couple of days. I even said to go have a shower and then we could lol.


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## MEM2020

I have to say that the style described below tends to be highly effective. The consistent subtext is: I love and desire you

It is ALSO true that you need to be very skilled at this - style - as it is comparable to running an engine near the red line. 

Random has a full grasp of pacing, which is absolutely essential. No matter how good your technique, if you rush a woman you get a very poor result. 

Pacing and affect are really critical. His slow pace and perhaps somewhat low affect demeanor cause her to get super turned on. 

This is exactly my experience with M2. Slow pace, low affect and she is tearing MY clothes off. 





RandomDude said:


> And there you have it
> 
> Reminds me of something my girlfriend and I laugh about, her family is quite conservative, and they tell her "does he ask you for sex? I wouldn't like him if he does", and she goes "nope, he never asks me for sex", and when she told me that, I said "that's right, I never ask for sex, I just seduce you instead" lol
> 
> A typical day has us being quite affectionate, holding hands, kissing randomly, all this is also *VERY* important for us. So try it, show your wife how much you love her with non sexual touches, show her that you cherish her, and not just her sexual parts but her hands, her hair, her lips, her eyes, her neck, etc etc. These all add to the buildup. Flirt with her, tease her, make suggestions, tease her some more. When we are out on a date we obviously can't do anything in public but that is ironically the best time to start the sexual tension.
> 
> Sexual touches should progress naturally from non sexual touches. For me personally though I like to tease, a lot. I touch her everywhere but where she wants it the most, even though she tries to make me touch her by grabbing my hand lol. I initiate, but never go all the way, I drive her wild enough to finish the steps herself out of pure lust. That's only when I actually go all the way, otherwise where's the fun?


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