# Confused



## Froapin (Nov 14, 2020)

I opened a bill addressed to my husband while he was in the hospital. It was a bill for a car payment of a car I do not own. I called and asked my husband about this bill his reply was he will take a look at it when he gets home. I did some research and found out he did purchase a car I found out the date and dealership. I call my husband with the information and he tells me finally he bought the car for a single mother he works with. She makes the payments he just was helping her out. I have been married 25 years and am just so blind sided he has been keeping this from me for 6 months. My trust has been broken and I just do not know where to go from here.


----------



## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

If they are not having sex then I will cut out my left eye.


----------



## SadOne1974 (Nov 10, 2020)

I agree. He’s having an affair most likely. I had friends who were married and he bought a car for some other woman. Turns out they were sleeping together.


----------



## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Froapin said:


> I opened a bill addressed to my husband while he was in the hospital. It was a bill for a car payment of a car I do not own. I called and asked my husband about this bill his reply was he will take a look at it when he gets home. I did some research and found out he did purchase a car I found out the date and dealership. I call my husband with the information and he tells me finally he bought the car for a single mother he works with. She makes the payments he just was helping her out. I have been married 25 years and am just so blind sided he has been keeping this from me for 6 months. My trust has been broken and I just do not know where to go from here.


No one buys or signs for a car for a co-worker. Go through his bank statements and you'll probably find the payments being withdrawn from his account.

He's sleeping with this woman and who knows, maybe _he _is the one who made her a single mother. Would explain the guilt needed to buy her a car to tote his progeny around in.


----------



## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

So she can carry HIS baby around ?


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

SadOne1974 said:


> I agree. He’s having an affair most likely. I had friends who were married and he bought a car for some other woman. Turns out they were sleeping together.


People in affairs buy CARS for their sex partners...??? Are they CRAZY!?!?


----------



## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

LisaDiane said:


> People in affairs buy CARS for their sex partners...??? Are they CRAZY!?!?


Some even pay the mistresses rent and other bills...


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

bobert said:


> Some even pay the mistresses rent and other bills...


I thought that was only in the rich people affairs...!!!!! 

That's the ultimate in foolishness!!!


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

LisaDiane said:


> I thought that was only in the rich people affairs...!!!!!
> 
> That's the ultimate in foolishness!!!


Nope. Happens all the time. My ex-H funded his off/on gf’s lifestyle at least partially for a few years (or maybe more). He was in charge of our finances and I trusted him completely. Big mistake.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Why couldnt she buy the car herself? Very odd, and why keep it from you?
Look at the bank statements to see if she is paying him, I doubt she is.


----------



## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

If the paper work shows the car make and model you should go stake out his work place and check this woman out. Maybe even have a conversation with her, she may not know he is married.

Also you need to start digging into your financial records and see who truly is paying for the car, and what other secrets your husband is spending money on.

As much as you want to go on the attack right now and keep confronting him I suggest being a bit more stealth like for a bit. Right now he is going to lie and lie and lie some more, and he is going to start hiding his tracks. Spend some time gathering facts, phone records, emails, financial records, look for inconsistencies with his work habits or travel. The more facts you have the harder it will be for him to lie and deny an affair.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

He has a sugar baby. 

It is quite common for sugar daddies to pay the sugar baby’s car payment or rent etc etc rather than cash upfront for their services like an escort or prostitute. 

And technically it is not illegal because how can you legally regulate how someone pays a car payment or rent.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Look up “sugar baby”, “sugar daddy”, “seeking arrangement” etc

This is clearly some kind of sugar baby/sugar daddy situation.

She may not even be a coworker or anything. It’s common to use “I was helping out a friend/niece/coworker etc who was having some hard times” as a cover story for the arrangement.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

This probably isn’t even what one would technically think of as an ‘affair.’

It’s more of an “arrangement “ that is more like a FWB arrangement where each negotiates what their “benefits” are.

His benefit is hooking up with a hot chick 20-30 years younger.

And her benefit is getting her car/rent/utilities/clothing etc paid for without the label or legal troubles of being an actual hooker.


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> This probably isn’t even what one would technically think of as an ‘affair.’
> 
> It’s more of an “arrangement “ that is more like a FWB arrangement where each negotiates what their “benefits” are.
> 
> ...


Soooo...PROSTITUTION...


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Openminded said:


> Nope. Happens all the time. My ex-H funded his off/on gf’s lifestyle at least partially for a few years (or maybe more). He was in charge of our finances and I trusted him completely. Big mistake.


That's so terrible!!! Is this the same ex who was a loser in almost every other way to you...?

I would have this guy's stuff on the front lawn waiting for him when he gets out of the hospital...
He should go stay with his little chicky so SHE can help him on to a full recovery!!!


----------



## Froapin (Nov 14, 2020)

Thank you for the comments. I know he is having a affair or arrangement at this point what makes the difference? I think the humiliation is what has me right now. There is no coming back from this I just can't. I informed him he will need to find a place to go when he gets out of the hospital. I will contact a attorney today to protect myself financially. He neither confirmed or denied the question I think he was more in shock I found out. 25 years and this how it ends.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

LisaDiane said:


> Soooo...PROSTITUTION...


Technically, in the eyes of the law - no. 

Prostitution is paying money for sex acts. In order to make a conviction for prostitution, there has to be provable solicitation for sex for money and it either has to on some kind of recording or offer made to an undercover officer or some other direct method of showing that an offer for specified amount of money for sexual acts was made. 

In sugaring, it is basically a dating relationship where "gifts" and 'assistance' and gratitudes are exchanged. 

If you make a law that an older man can not provide some kind of support or assistance to a younger woman he is having a sexual relationship with, then suddenly 80+% of all married couples and dating couples are heading to jail. 

Sugaring is a negotiated, transactional relationship where much is implied and between the lines. Both parties can shield themselves from any kind of prostitution charge by avoiding handing over cash for sex acts. 

Instead it is an agreed ongoing relationship where there will be mutual gratitude. The "dates' may be at her place, but she having some trouble making rent so he offers to pick up or assist with the rent/utilities and she is gracious for his generosity when he arrives. Or their date is a nice dinner at a fancy and expensive restaurant across from a nice hotel but she needs some help with her car payment to get there and she is tapped out for cash at the moment so he will need to pick up the tab but she is very impressed and enamoured with successful men with fine tastes that is generous enough to show a lady the finer things in life. 

....see how that works? 

If someone wanted to call it lo-carb prostitution, you could, but it doesn't meet the bar of illegal activity and I don't know of any sugar baby/sugar daddy that has ever been convicted of prostitution for assisting with car payments or rent or other expenses or even gift cards to Von Maur or Victoria's Secret or going on a shopping trip for Italian handbags etc.


----------



## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Froapin said:


> Thank you for the comments. I know he is having a affair or arrangement at this point what makes the difference? I think the humiliation is what has me right now. There is no coming back from this I just can't. I informed him he will need to find a place to go when he gets out of the hospital. I will contact an attorney today to protect myself financially. He neither confirmed or denied the question I think he was more in shock I found out. 25 years and this how it ends.


That's a quick jump from just 13 hours ago and thinking this was a lying issue for 6 months and being unsure how to trust him. 

Keep in mind this is a rollercoaster and tomorrow you could be begging him to come back, then you could want him out again and be so sure you're done, only to end up back with him. So if you start to feel confused or like you're changing your mind, it's normal. I went back and forth on a daily basis for like a year and a half. 

Keep in mind you cannot force him out of the marital home, and he would be a fool to leave it. 

It's the weekend so I'm not sure how many attorneys you will be able to get ahold of but you shouldn't go with the first one you talk to. Second and third opinions are also good. Some attorneys suck and there is a wide price range. Your husband will not be allowed to use any attorneys you have a consultation with, but don't go out and see all the best attorneys just to screw over your husband. That could backfire on you because judges don't like that.


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Froapin said:


> Thank you for the comments. I know he is having a affair or arrangement at this point what makes the difference? I think the humiliation is what has me right now. There is no coming back from this I just can't. I informed him he will need to find a place to go when he gets out of the hospital. I will contact a attorney today to protect myself financially. He neither confirmed or denied the question I think he was more in shock I found out. 25 years and this how it ends.


GOOD FOR YOU!!! Be STRONG, and STAY strong!!!

I'm SO sorry this is happening...


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Froapin said:


> Thank you for the comments. I know he is having a affair or arrangement at this point what makes the difference? I think the humiliation is what has me right now. There is no coming back from this I just can't. I informed him he will need to find a place to go when he gets out of the hospital. I will contact a attorney today to protect myself financially. He neither confirmed or denied the question I think he was more in shock I found out. 25 years and this how it ends.


My advice is see if your attorney can get you hooked up with a forensic accountant. 
He may have been diverting many thousands of dollars of marital funds to this and potentially other women as well. 

You may be entitled to compensation for that in the divorce settlement. Even in a no-fault state, if it can be shown that marital assets were used to support an outside affair, you may be able to get some compensation for that. 

If he is paying car payments and/or rent etc, there will be a paper trail.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

bobert said:


> That's a quick jump from just 13 hours ago and thinking this was a lying issue for 6 months and being unsure how to trust him.
> 
> Keep in mind this is a rollercoaster and tomorrow you could be begging him to come back, then you could want him out again and be so sure you're done, only to end up back with him. So if you start to feel confused or like you're changing your mind, it's normal. I went back and forth on a daily basis for like a year and a half.
> 
> ...


If you are advocating some kind of "wait-and-see" or "don't-do-anything-while-you-are-mad.." I disagree. 

I think it is important that she see an attorney and get papers filed ASAP so as to cut off any further diversion of marital assets. 

Some of these sugar daddies have car payments and rent payments and such on automatic payment plans. Some even have auto payments going directly into the sugar baby's account every month. 

Get the papers filed immediately and get a freeze on all the accounts now. 

If over time she decides for whatever reason to stop the divorce or try to reconcile or whatever she can. 

But get the legal and financial protections in place first. 

As I have been saying in my posts here, this is NOT a typical love affair that is a matter of the heart or the loins. This is financial arrangement and there is as much if not more financial infidelity going on here than emotional and sexual infidelity. 

counseling and heart to heart discussions and therapy may be able to address the emotional and sexual aspects of this. 

But it will take lawyers and accountants and judges and court orders to address the financial aspects.


----------



## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> If you are advocating some kind of "wait-and-see" or "don't-do-anything-while-you-are-mad.." I disagree.


That is not what I was advocating. I was just saying that feelings can be fickle and not to be shocked by it. Like you said, the divorce process can always be stopped (or they could re-marry) if she chose to down the line.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

bobert said:


> That is not what I was advocating. I was just saying that feelings can be fickle and not to be shocked by it. Like you said, the divorce process can always be stopped (or they could re-marry) if she chose to down the line.


yes, feelings can be fickle and can be all over the board. 

But thousands of dollars coming out of marital assets are nuts and bolts and need to be shut down immediately.


----------



## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> yes, feelings can be fickle and can be all over the board.
> 
> But thousands of dollars coming out of marital assets are nuts and bolts and need to be shut down immediately.


I agree with that. If what I wrote made it seem like I was telling her to hold off, that wasn't the intention. I'd highly suggest she doesn't hold off, and doesn't play the back and forth game for so long.


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

LisaDiane said:


> That's so terrible!!! Is this the same ex who was a loser in almost every other way to you...?


Unfortunately, yes. And I stayed with him long after I learned about her the first time but left after I learned about her the second time. I didn’t know about the money though — not until I was done. I had suspected the off/on cheating part for awhile but not the money part — not on that scale anyway.

He was one of those people who had an excellent public mask. He was good-looking and successful. Everyone who met him absolutely loved him. But they didn’t really know him. I keep trying for decades to fix things, long after I should have given up. I‘m an excellent example of what not to do. My situation is also why I virtually never recommend giving someone a second chance. I know how it can turn out.


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

LisaDiane said:


> Soooo...PROSTITUTION...


Basically, yes. They prefer to pretend it’s not but young, attractive girls generally aren’t interested in much older men without an incentive and that’s usually ”what can you do for me”.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Froapin said:


> Thank you for the comments. I know he is having a affair or arrangement at this point what makes the difference? I think the humiliation is what has me right now. There is no coming back from this I just can't. I informed him he will need to find a place to go when he gets out of the hospital. I will contact a attorney today to protect myself financially. He neither confirmed or denied the question I think he was more in shock I found out. 25 years and this how it ends.


First you mention a car and now you also know he is having an affair? How did you find that out?


----------



## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Froapin said:


> Thank you for the comments. I know he is having a affair or arrangement at this point what makes the difference? I think the humiliation is what has me right now. There is no coming back from this I just can't. I informed him he will need to find a place to go when he gets out of the hospital. I will contact a attorney today to protect myself financially. He neither confirmed or denied the question I think he was more in shock I found out. 25 years and this how it ends.


You're my new hero. So nice to see someone respect themselves enough not to cling to a POS whose disrespected her to this level.

I'm sure your lawyer will insist lover boy sells his girlfriend's car immediately, because it sure as hell should NOT be a part of the marital debt. What an idiot.

Good luck to you.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> You're my new hero. So nice to see someone respect themselves enough not to cling to a POS whose disrespected her to this level.
> 
> I'm sure your lawyer will insist lover boy sells his girlfriend's car immediately, because it sure as hell should NOT be a part of the marital debt. What an idiot.
> 
> Good luck to you.


The car is probably in the sugar baby's name. he is just making payments. 

It's not his to sell and the car would not be considered marital property nor marital debt. That is why she needs to get on the paperwork ASAP.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> First you mention a car and now you also know he is having an affair? How did you find that out?


She figured it out because she's not dumb. No man pays for a woman's car if she isn't having sex with him (or the promise to have sex with him).


----------



## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Don’t forget to go pick up YOUR new car !!!!


----------



## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

IMO, your husband's behavior is enough evidence to conclude he's having an affair.
Therefore, it's not up to you to find any additional evidence. 

Rather, since he created this mess, it's up to your husband to prove he's not having an affair. 

And, under the circumstances, it's not appropriate for him to say: "trust me there's no infidelity". 

Your husband needs to come up with rock solid evidence. If innocent, he should be taking the iniative to restore trust. For example, voluntary disclosure of the date and purpose of all his disbursements/withdrawals in the past 2 years; taking a polygraph test (with you asking the questions); and disclosing the identify of the OW (including where she lives, and if he's also on her Lease).


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> She figured it out because she's not dumb. No man pays for a woman's car if she isn't having sex with him (or the promise to have sex with him).


He's stupid to do that anyway!!!! I think a real prostitute would be cheaper! Lol!!


----------



## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

LisaDiane said:


> He's stupid to do that anyway!!!! I think a real prostitute would be cheaper! Lol!!


Depends on how nice the car is, and how often he'd be need a... "session"  To have a good but not "high end" prostitute can be in the range of $50 for a quick 10-minute blowjob to $300 for an hour.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Openminded said:


> Basically, yes. They prefer to pretend it’s not but young, attractive girls generally aren’t interested in much older men without an incentive and that’s usually ”what can you do for me”.


you can call it lo-carb prostitution if you want. 

Actually it's more like Aspertame of the prostitution world - it is more of a legal definition than a practical one. 

Sugaring is basically a just enough of step away from prostitution so it's not enforceable legally.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

LisaDiane said:


> He's stupid to do that anyway!!!! I think a real prostitute would be cheaper! Lol!!


I can't argue with you on that one LOL

The difference is many sugar baby arrangements are set up to be a somewhat regular thing on an ongoing basis, sometimes lasting years. 

It is almost more of an alternative lifestyle or secret/double life than picking up a hooker for a night.


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> Why couldnt she buy the car herself? Very odd, and why keep it from you?
> Look at the bank statements to see if she is paying him, I doubt she is.


Best idea yet. If he financed it for her that's one thing but you should see payments coming from her going into his account to repay him every month to take care of the car payments.


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Openminded said:


> Basically, yes. They prefer to pretend it’s not but young, attractive girls generally aren’t interested in much older men without an incentive and that’s usually ”what can you do for me”.


Absolutely correct.

You definitely need a good attorney for this. That money can be recovered for the divorce settlement but I will warn you right now that he will concoct some kind of story trying to legitimize it. It is possible he's signed the note but she is paying him back or paying him something so that's the first thing to find out. 

I've seen a case where an aging prostitute was passed off as the man's cook trying to keep from having to split the money spent on her back to the wife.


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

bobert said:


> Depends on how nice the car is, and how often he'd be need a... "session"  To have a good but not "high end" prostitute can be in the range of $50 for a quick 10-minute blowjob to $300 for an hour.


WHAT...??? $300 for ONE HOUR...?? That has got to be a high-end Escort rate...!!!! I can't believe anyone would waste money like that! Lol!!
And I'll bet, any woman getting "gifts" like cars and expensive things still controls the frequency of "sessions"...!!!


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> you can call it lo-carb prostitution if you want.
> 
> Actually it's more like Aspertame of the prostitution world - it is more of a legal definition than a practical one.
> 
> Sugaring is basically a just enough of step away from prostitution so it's not enforceable legally.


Sugaring is just another version of the age-old trade of youth and beauty for whatever financial gain can be had.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Openminded said:


> Sugaring is just another version of the age-old trade of youth and beauty for whatever financial gain can be had.


I think it is like leasing a car. 

You can buy a car and get the title and it is yours until either you die or the car craps out to where it can no longer be repaired,, or you simply decide to get rid of it. You take care of all of it's repairs and maintenance and insurance etc That's like marriage. 

You can also rent a car. With renting, someone else holds the title and takes care of all the maintenance and repairs and you simply hand over an agreed upon amount of money for a very short period of time. That is like getting a hooker. 

But with sugaring, you are obtaining a new, shiny, sweet smelling car during it's peak market value for an ongoing but assumed temporary period of time and for that you pay a certain amount that is less than what the full purchase price would be as you are not paying the true market value but are paying what the presumed depreciation would be for the period of time you keep it off the open market. 

That's basically what sugaring is. You are paying the depreciation cost for having a young, sexy girl for a presumably temporary period of time without paying the full purchase price. 

People that lease, typically do it so they can have a brand new, shiny car every few years without paying full market price. The lease price is based on the presumed depreciation cost for the period of time it is off the market and to compensate for the depreciation that will occur when it will be traded back in. 

That is basically what sugaring is.


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

^^^
I don’t disagree with that.


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> I think it is like leasing a car.
> 
> You can buy a car and get the title and it is yours until either you die or the car craps out to where it can no longer be repaired,, or you simply decide to get rid of it. You take care of all of it's repairs and maintenance and insurance etc That's like marriage.
> 
> ...


This is a brilliant explanation, but the calculated disconnection and coldness would make my heart ACHE...there is NOTHING I want that is worth getting this way...


----------



## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> I think it is like leasing a car.
> 
> You can buy a car and get the title and it is yours until either you die or the car craps out to where it can no longer be repaired,, or you simply decide to get rid of it. You take care of all of it's repairs and maintenance and insurance etc That's like marriage.
> 
> ...


You are not really keeping it off the open market (see bolded). It is more like a rental. You are paying for the limited amount of time you are using it.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

leftfield said:


> You are not really keeping it off the open market (see bolded). It is more like a rental. You are paying for the limited amount of time you are using it.


If it was for a night or two I would agree. 

Check out Reddit and some of the other sugar forums out there. It's truly not the same as picking up a hooker for a hummer or afternoon romp in an hourly motel for a lot of these people. 

A lot of sugar relationships are comparatively long term, most lasting at least multiple months and many for years. Additionally a lot of the daddies are paying for the baby's exclusivity and availability. These are generally financially successful and business savy men. They aren't paying car payments and rent payments and college tuition etc for a blow job in the car. If they are shelling out that kind of dough on an regular and ongoing basis, it isn't for some random hooker that's available when they head to the redlight district. 

Now do some of these chicks step out of their agreements or contract with other daddies without the other's knowledge? Yeah, I'm sure these aren't the most virtuous people in the world. 

But the point I'm making is when you are talking about making car payments and such means these are negotiated, transactional relationships and not whichever chick comes up to your car first when you pull over at 6th avenue and Martin Luther King Jr Boulevard. 

These chicks are entering into negotiated, ongoing relationships with older, successful men where it is known by both parties that they won't be riding off into the sunset together. The chicks know the men aren't just after conversation and arm candy, and the men know that a bouquet of flowers and a night out on the town isn't going to be enough for her to drop her knickers for a middle aged balding dude with a spare tire around his gut on a weekly basis. 

If this guy is having bills for car payments sent to his house, this is the real deal and not just some creepy guy going to a massage parlor for a tug or a hummer in the back of a parking lot.


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> The car is probably in the sugar baby's name. he is just making payments.
> 
> It's not his to sell and the car would not be considered marital property nor marital debt. That is why she needs to get on the paperwork ASAP.


The bill is coming to him. He is not just a co-signer. His name is on the car because he couldn't get if financed otherwise. No lender will finance a vehicle and not have legal recourse to repossess if payments aren't made. The car is their collateral.


----------

