# Apologies within marriage



## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

I have noticed a pattern with my husband that actually has pretty much always been the case, but I hadn't consciously thought about it until recently. He pretty much NEVER says I'm sorry voluntarily and without a "but..." The only times he will apologize to me for saying/doing something hurtful to me is if I confront him about it directly. Even then, most times his apology has a "but"..."I'm sorry I got mad and yelled at you for wanting to get counseling for yourself, *but* you have to understand that I was really tired that night and you took me by surprise and..."

So, he will either go to bed angry or leave for work angry and give me the ice cold shoulder, then the next morning or when he gets home from work, he acts all fine and talkative, asks how my day was, does things to try to compensate like being overly attentive to me....but he will NEVER say he's sorry for acting like an ass and allowing me to be upset about it all day or night. I've become so accustomed to this, I don't let it ruin my day anymore like I used to, but it still irks me that he can act badly and then expect me to just forget all about it pretend it never happened.

Do I apologize to him? Yes. Too much. In fact, I've found myself being the one to apologize to him for "making him mad" when it's something that I shouldn't need to apologize for (like telling him I am depressed and would like to get counseling). 

Guys and gals, do you freely and readily apologize to your spouse when you've done something to upset them? Or do you "apologize" by suddenly acting nicer and being more attentive and pretend the incident never happened?


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

I've had a lot of therapy where I learned how to do this. It did not come easily because I was a perfectionist and I had to be 'right' all the time otherwise I feared punishment.

These days I freely and readily apologize when I've done something to upset my husband. I don't even add a "but" after it either. As soon as I realize I was wrong I will own it.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

This has historically been a problem for me too. I put a lot more weight on actions over words, so I've always thought saying "sorry" was less important than the acts associated we actually being sorry, and showing it.

That doesn't work so well for a spouse who expects to hear it.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

"then the next morning or when he gets home from work, he acts all fine and talkative, asks how my day was, does things to try to compensate like being overly attentive to me..."


Yet you say he's "acting like it never happened." He may not put his apologies into words, but when you see him overcompensating, that IS his apology! In fact, if you want to have some fun with it, you can try something I've learned to do: When he's acting like things are fine again, I'll say, "Ok. I accept." or "I'll let you make up to me by taking me out to dinner." You may be surprised when he suddenly says, "Yes, I was acting dumb."


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

KathyBatesel said:


> Yet you say he's "acting like it never happened." He may not put his apologies into words, but when you see him overcompensating, that IS his apology!


This is the point of my question. Is it considered an acceptable to not openly acknowledge that you've upset your spouse or behaved poorly, but instead "apologize" by simply being nicer or more attentive later? 

I see this as being cowardly...not being brave enough to admit to your spouse you messed up and just hoping you can charm them into forgetting about it. Sometimes I think it's a passive aggressive thing...as in, he gets to decide when it's ok to hurt my feelings, and when he decides he's over it, he expects me to just be over it too. It can be a couple of hours or a couple of days. I never know. But when his demeanor suddenly changes from Mr. Cold Shoulder to Mr. Nice Guy, I'm supposed just smile and accept this as an apology?

Again I will say that when I single out behaviors like this as examples, they seem trivial or maybe I'm being overly sensitive. But when they happen on a regular basis and the undertone of our marriage is cluttered with unresolved arguments and issues because of it, it's more than I can just laugh off or chalk up to "that's the way he is".


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Waking up to life said:


> Do I apologize to him? Yes. Too much. In fact, I've found myself being the one to apologize to him for "making him mad" when it's something that I shouldn't need to apologize for (like telling him I am depressed and would like to get counseling).


I used to be like that- apologizing all the time. A counselor told me that as long as I keep doing it, I will be stuck a "victim".

Give yourself permission to *stop apologizing *for taking care of yourself and standing up for yourself!


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

My ex-husband somehow learned from childhood I am guessing to never say he was sorry. He never said it to anybody come to think of it. It really bothered me but he was abusive so whatever.

I think mentally healthy people have no problem saying the words.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Waking up to life said:


> I see this as being cowardly...not being brave enough to admit to your spouse you messed up and just hoping you can charm them into forgetting about it. Sometimes I think it's a passive aggressive thing...as in, he gets to decide when it's ok to hurt my feelings, and when he decides he's over it, he expects me to just be over it too. It can be a couple of hours or a couple of days. I never know. But when his demeanor suddenly changes from Mr. Cold Shoulder to Mr. Nice Guy, I'm supposed just smile and accept this as an apology?


:iagree:

I put up with this nonsense for years - YEARS. This is not only passive-aggressive, but it's a crazy-making control technique. Alcoholics are absolute masters at this game. That is why one of the Twelve Steps in A.A. addresses the need to make amends, when possible. It's about being big enough to admit defects of character, step up to the plate, and admit a wrong. No excuses. No "I'm sorry, but ...".

I think people who aren't big enough to open their mouths, say "I'm sorry, I was wrong," and mean it sincerely, are lacking in humility. Yeah, we all have our pride positions from which we operate, don't want to admit when we're wrong, don't want to eat crow, blah, blah, blah. But the thing is, the rug-sweeping/let's-just-forget-it crap builds up over the years. And that build-up, unfortunately, often ends in a volcanic explosion.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

I don't always apologize when I should but when I do apologize, it's open ended and sincere meaning there are not buts and I'm not fishing for a me too. There are times where I apologize for how I've said something without changing my thoughts on the topic though. I will always apologize when I feel that I've treated her disrespectfully. I'm sure she's felt that way on occasion that I wasn't aware of though. We really don't fight or hurt feelings very often though.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

Prodigal said:


> But the thing is, the rug-sweeping/let's-just-forget-it crap builds up over the years. And that build-up, unfortunately, often ends in a volcanic explosion.


So true. There's a saying that if you throw a frog into a pot of boiling water, he'll jump out. But if you put a frog in cold water and slowly bring it to a boil, he'll stay and boil to death. 

This kind of thing, the rug-sweeping, passive aggressive crap, is what slowly brings the water to a boiling point in our marriage. Unlike the frog, I refuse to boil to death.


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## galian84 (May 7, 2012)

I, too, think it takes a big and emotionally stable person to say "I'm sorry" with no buts. I definitely understand that people have different ways of apologizing. But while I also like to see actions more than I like to hear words, I still like to hear "I'm sorry". 

I was very much like you (and still am, sometimes), in that I overapologize. I grew up with family who NEVER apologized for anything and always insisted on being right, and they still do. So I guess I did it to overcompensate for that, because I refused to be like them. 

My ex also never apologized for anything and always insisted on being right. One of the things I resented him greatly for. My current boyfriend says sorry, in the rare moments that he says something hurtful, but sometimes he'll throw in the "but..." I told him how much I dislike it and he's trying to make an effort to stop doing that. 

I agree it can be hard to do when you're not used to doing it, though, as with anything.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

I think my husband has rarely apologized without a "but"..or the apology is in affect " I'm sorry you are angry".Also I picked up pretty quick his sorry's don't include repentance.I asked him to stop apologizing to me its meaningless gibber jabber at some point.He also complained that I "never apologized" I corrected him and said yes I do when I mean it..unlike you that's why you apologize a lot more than me.I didn't do anything wrong but I'll say I'm sorry to get you to drop it " is a waste of my time and its just noise pollution IMHO...


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> This is the point of my question. Is it considered an acceptable to not openly acknowledge that you've upset your spouse or behaved poorly, but instead "apologize" by simply being nicer or more attentive later?
> 
> I see this as being cowardly...not being brave enough to admit to your spouse you messed up and just hoping you can charm them into forgetting about it. Sometimes I think it's a passive aggressive thing...as in, he gets to decide when it's ok to hurt my feelings, and when he decides he's over it, he expects me to just be over it too. It can be a couple of hours or a couple of days. I never know. But when his demeanor suddenly changes from Mr. Cold Shoulder to Mr. Nice Guy, I'm supposed just smile and accept this as an apology?
> 
> Again I will say that when I single out behaviors like this as examples, they seem trivial or maybe I'm being overly sensitive. But when they happen on a regular basis and the undertone of our marriage is cluttered with unresolved arguments and issues because of it, it's more than I can just laugh off or chalk up to "that's the way he is".


My first husband used to be like this, and it made me angry. I felt manipulated and also thought it was cowardly. He would act like nothing was wrong, but didn't overcompensate or anything like that, and if I tried to ask him about the change, the fight would start all over. A few years back, I stopped speaking to him for over 6 months. He did apologize (the 2nd time in over 20 years) but things are forever strained now because I put him to the wall so much.

When I got married again, my second husband was the same way to a lesser extent. But he did overcompensate. I can't tell you at what point I recognized that this was his apology, but once I did, I had a completely different reaction. With him, I would tell him that I could see he was over things, and ask him if it now meant he understood my viewpoint. He frequently said yes, and when he did, I would say, "I need to hear you apologize for me to feel better" and usually he did. Not always, but about 70% of the time. 

After we decided to divorce, and I was reflecting a LOT on what went wrong, etc. I came to believe that I'd made a mistake in doing that. I think it left him feeling bullied in a way. 

OK, so married for the third time now. Husband #3 did this same thing a few times, and I used the response I gave above. "I'll let you make it up to me by taking me to dinner," or "I accept your apology," even though he hadn't said one. 

In the past, I'd have been TERRIFIED to boldly assume like this. I'd have expected it to generate another big fight, and make me seem like a bully, but it had the exact opposite effect. It was like he felt relieved that the whole thing would be resolved by something as simple as buying a dinner, but there was more to it. It increased his respect for me because he didn't lump me into his mind with all those "other" women who had a different style of resolving arguments. It was easy for him. (He actually told me this at one point.)

I've since read up on some of these dynamics, too. Guys aren't raised to talk things out. They're raised to DO things. From an early age, they learn that showing weakness in any way is a way to get benched from the game. They feel weak when they know they've made a mistake. They're not being cowardly, then, but are trying to show the opposite. By letting them save face when they are in the wrong, we give them a gift of love that I've found is well worth it. My husband doesn't worry that I will make a big deal of him being wrong and now he's pretty good about saying sorry. I no longer even have to use this approach much at all, because he trusts me now. 

I mostly post the positive stuff about our relationship on here, but I'll tell you where this came into play in a HUGE way.... 

He has a teenage daughter. She's a few months from being 18 now, but she was 14 when we got together. I saw signs of her using drugs and taking a lot of risks, and I thought she may have been abused sexually at some point in her life. (She eventually confirmed that she had been raped a number of times by a family member who is not part of our household now.) During our first year and a half together, this caused a lot of conflicts. On two separate occasions, I told him I was going to move out because as much as I love him, I was not willing to watch her go down in flames because he refused to parent her. He was so overindulgent that she felt like no rules applied to her, and she got away with it again and again. To make a real long story short, we had disagreements and arguments over her behaviors a LOT in the early days. When I said, "She's lying," he responded with how I was just persecuting her. She tried to convince him that I was horrible to her, even though he could see that she loved me, too. 

I put him up to some challenges and told him if I was wrong, I'd back off. Well, those challenges opened his eyes. One of those challenges was when she was at her friends and I had reason to believe she was going to use ecstasy. It was a big disagreement, and I told him I wanted him to go to the friend's house and confront it with her parents present. I told him if I was wrong, I'd back off. He reluctantly agreed and we went together. The kids caved and confirmed that they were planning to use it. He was very attentive afterward and acted like nothing had happened. I was still hurt and angry because he'd believed that I was trying to be mean to his child. I didn't like that he had that perception of me. 

I said, "I don't like that you automatically assume I'm trying to hurt her whenever I say something you don't want to believe is true." He tried to give me some justification that made it ok, and which I wasn't about to accept. I said, "I don't really care what your reasons were. That's not ok with me. Now you can make it up to me by taking me to Longhorn tonight." That was the end of the discussion. 

There were several of these that came up early on. Yet today, he tells OTHER people - including his parents and a couple neighbors - that he was in denial about what his daughter was doing and that I showed him the truth. The words "I'm sorry" weren't really a part of any of these arguments, yet the resolution created the kinds of changes that were needed. And to me, *that* is what is most important.


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## janefw (Jun 26, 2012)

Yeah, apologies need to be openly given, but should not be open-ended! "I am sorry I shouted." Not "I am sorry that I shouted, but you provoked me." That is not an apology. That is an excuse pretending to be an apology!

No, I don't think that just 'making up for it' is good enough. If both spouses are adults - which they have to be, right? - then they should behave in an adult manner, which means apologizing genuinely and seeking to make amends and/or change the offending behavior if it is ongoing bad behavior (like shouting).


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> "I am sorry I shouted." Not "I am sorry that I shouted, but you provoked me."


How about "Im sorry you are UPSET because I shouted"...:scratchhead:


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Waking up to life said:


> Is it considered an acceptable to not openly acknowledge that you've upset your spouse or behaved poorly, but instead "apologize" by simply being nicer or more attentive later?


A lot of people do this because they are immature or emotionally challenged but that doesn't make it right. Since you are already married, it is best for you to be able to accept your partner, immaturity and all. Many people disagree with me, but I think it is impossible to apologize too much. Being the mature one in your relationship, you could apologize, modeling good behavior, and then ask your husband directly if he has anything to apologize for and see if he catches on.


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## WEBELONG2GETHER (Jan 22, 2012)

KathyBatesel said:


> "Yet you say he's "acting like it never happened." He may not put his apologies into words, but when you see him overcompensating, that IS his apology!
> 
> I believe that is totall unacceptable, if you did the time you should own up to your bullsh**t. My husband does the same thing and it pisses me off. It is funny that they can yell and scream and let *you*know they are pissed off or mad, but the cannot take to time to say I am sorry:scratchhead:
> 
> Again I say bullsh**t


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

KathyBatesel said:


> I've since read up on some of these dynamics, too. Guys aren't raised to talk things out. They're raised to DO things. From an early age, they learn that showing weakness in any way is a way to get benched from the game. They feel weak when they know they've made a mistake. They're not being cowardly, then, but are trying to show the opposite. By letting them save face when they are in the wrong, we give them a gift of love that I've found is well worth it. My husband doesn't worry that I will make a big deal of him being wrong and now he's pretty good about saying sorry. I no longer even have to use this approach much at all, because he trusts me now.



Now THERE'S a woman who understands the issue from the other perspective. Even if you don't believe that this is a proper way for your husband to behave, understanding the why is an important step.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> A lot of people do this because they are immature or emotionally challenged but that doesn't make it right. Since you are already married, it is best for you to be able to accept your partner, immaturity and all. Many people disagree with me, but I think it is impossible to apologize too much. Being the mature one in your relationship, you could apologize, modeling good behavior, and then ask your husband directly if he has anything to apologize for and see if he catches on.


Do you find yourself or your spouse repeatedly apologizing for the same behavior over and over?

If so, that to me is unacceptable. The words "I'm sorry" are easy to say, and completely meaningless if not backed up with a commensurate change in behavior.

So saying I'm sorry could be a necessary but insufficient condition for forgiveness. But if I can only get one or the other, I'd rather opt to forego the apology and get the behavioral fix.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

WEBELONG2GETHER said:


> KathyBatesel said:
> 
> 
> > "Yet you say he's "acting like it never happened." He may not put his apologies into words, but when you see him overcompensating, that IS his apology!
> ...


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> Do you find yourself or your spouse repeatedly apologizing for the same behavior over and over?
> 
> If so, that to me is unacceptable. The words "I'm sorry" are easy to say, and completely meaningless if not backed up with a commensurate change in behavior.


BINGO!!!...

I'm sorry I lied to you ..O.K I forgive you ..

I'm sorry I lied to you ...Um..again ?O.K no one is perfect I forgive you ..

I'm sorry I lied to you ...seriously how so ?you keep doing it..fine I cant hold a grudge forever...

I'm sorry I lied to you ....whatever don't even bother apologizing I'm used to being lied to now and your fake apologies just add insult to injury ..I don't trust you anymore to be truthful to me..


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Drives me nuts when I do get I am sorry...but.....
I find myself apologizing even when I feel I am not wrong. To clear the air or move on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

I apologize like this...I'm sorry there is no excuse for what I said or did you are within your right to be upset with me.

I'll even take "Im sorry I reacted the way I did with my frustration I could have(should have) handled that differently" (because indeed sometimes we ARE "provoked")...

Self respect goal actually.."walk away blameless"..


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> Forturnately we hardly ever argue now the kids are grown and moved out.



:rofl:


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

WEBELONG2GETHER said:


> I believe that is totall unacceptable, if you did the time you should own up to your bullsh**t. My husband does the same thing and it pisses me off. It is funny that they can yell and scream and let *you*know they are pissed off or mad, but the cannot take to time to say I am sorry:scratchhead:
> 
> Again I say bullsh**t


Sadly this is on you. If you stopped this awful behavior from the get go you wouldn't have the need for an apology. This is a boundary problem not an apology problem. Your husband isn't sorry at all hence why he doesn't say it and why he yells/screams over and over and over again.

I say this with heartfelt love in my heart. I used to be an angry spouse and I promise you I wasn't sorry either. I felt he deserved it. Yes I was wrong and I admit that now but then? Nope I just kept doing it because I wanted to.


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## ngonza (Nov 8, 2012)

The apologetic person is ME! Separated, now but we still see each other. Like he has 2 homes. Mine and his moms. Supposibly we are going to live together in 6 mo. when my lease expires, but for now.. when we argue at my place its usually because I find another sign of cheating or petty stuff. He denies yells and then leaves for a few days ..Then here comes the weekend and he is all mine! (I'am being Sarcastic)He will say are you sorry ! Tell me ! Tell me! Are you sorry? Then I say yes ! I am sorry! I too have been saying I am sorry for everything! Like a fool ! I just wanted to have a good day! and not fight! I am tired of it! He uses me to get his way..He is his fathers son a cheater!


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

If necessary we both are able to apologize without issue. The key for us is not doing things we need to apologize for. Consideration and kindness doesn't lend to hurt feelings.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> I see this as being cowardly...not being brave enough to admit to your spouse you messed up and just hoping you can charm them into forgetting about it. Sometimes I think it's a passive aggressive thing...as in, he gets to decide when it's ok to hurt my feelings, and when he decides he's over it, he expects me to just be over it too. It can be a couple of hours or a couple of days. I never know. But when his demeanor suddenly changes from Mr. Cold Shoulder to Mr. Nice Guy, I'm supposed just smile and accept this as an apology?
> 
> Again I will say that when I single out behaviors like this as examples, they seem trivial or maybe I'm being overly sensitive. But when they happen on a regular basis and the undertone of our marriage is cluttered with unresolved arguments and issues because of it, it's more than I can just laugh off or chalk up to "that's the way he is".


I tend to agree.Its like a "take it or leave it' attitude because I'm too filled with pride to humble myself with WORDS even though I can speak the harmful words or actions..Even in the courts of law once convicted the judge may consider a statement of contrition or true remorse and look for an humble attitude that may affect how you are sentenced.And victims too look for evidence of verbal remorse to aide in forgiveness.

My mother is like this..She has hurt me OVER and OVER ..I mean stuff she has accused me of utterly unfounded (lies) never retracted it..I don't speak to her for months..I'm the "meanie" according to my siblings being "mean to mama"..But I can call her at any time during all this(if I decide to) and start talking about the weather and its like nothing ever happened..Or she will send a "gift" through someone else to my house..That gets old real quick mainly because its only a "guess" if they actually believe they are wrong or its just because they STILL want the benefits of the relationship regardless of how they feel entitled to treat you ..


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

John Gray talks about this issue in his original book Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus.

He explains that to a man, an apology is an admission of intent. Since no man intends to make a mistake or hurt your feelings or say the wrong thing or whatever, he views making an apology to be unnecessary and he will not admit to purposely making this mistake. 

So for instance, a man accidentally steps on your foot. You say "ouch" and he says "oh are you ok, let me help you!" He does not say "I'm sorry" because he did not intentionally step on your foot. To apologize would be an admission of intention.

Understanding this dynamic helped me a lot to understand it in my own marriage...and it also helped me to stop apologizing for things that did not require it.


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## janefw (Jun 26, 2012)

ngonza said:


> The apologetic person is ME! Separated, now but we still see each other. Like he has 2 homes. Mine and his moms. Supposibly we are going to live together in 6 mo. when my lease expires, but for now.. when we argue at my place its usually because I find another sign of cheating or petty stuff. He denies yells and then leaves for a few days ..Then here comes the weekend and he is all mine! (I'am being Sarcastic)He will say are you sorry ! Tell me ! Tell me! Are you sorry? Then I say yes ! I am sorry! I too have been saying I am sorry for everything! Like a fool ! I just wanted to have a good day! and not fight! I am tired of it! He uses me to get his way..He is his fathers son a cheater!


Why are you hoping to reconcile with such a loser? I mean, he really _is _a loser. A cheater AND a bully.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> He explains that to a man, an apology is an admission of intent. Since no man intends to make a mistake or hurt your feelings or say the wrong thing or whatever, he views making an apology to be unnecessary and he will not admit to purposely making this mistake.
> 
> So for instance, a man accidentally steps on your foot. You say "ouch" and he says "oh are you ok, let me help you!" He does not say "I'm sorry" because he did not intentionally step on your foot. To apologize would be an admission of intention.


Hmm..strange how I'm always in the "exception box"..my husband apologizes even when he doesn't mean it..I only apologize if I do ..and my mother refuses to apologize to anyone no mater how abhorant her words or behaviors..

Oh and what is wrong with admission of intent? Lots of **** we do is to intentioinally try and hurt the other.Or at the very least a deliberate act any idiot would know would hurt the other..

No man intentionally tries to hurt your feelings ????:rofl:

That's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard..

Actually my husband has "admitted" that specifically I did it /said it to try and hurt you(purposely) ..mainly it was the "but " part was to "get me back...


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

"No man intentionally tries to hurt your feelings ??"

Well, no man I've ever been with has intentionally tried to hurt my feelings. But of course some men do. I'm pretty sure John Gray is just speaking of the top of the bell curve of men, the ones who don't actually intentionally try to hurt a woman's feelings.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> "No man intentionally tries to hurt your feelings ??"
> 
> Well, no man I've ever been with has intentionally tried to hurt my feelings. But of course some men do. I'm pretty sure John Gray is just speaking of the top of the bell curve of men, the ones who don't actually intentionally try to hurt a woman's feelings.


I think its more like men who intentionally try to hurt your feelings of which there are just as many as woman try to hide behind the "I didn't mean it" to hurt your feelings stance because they cant stand the consequences..At the very least PLENTY do things they KNOW will hurt your feelings even if that's not the "goal" .

That's like the man saying "yes I had an affair but I didn't do it with the intention of hurting you that's the "last thing I wanted to happen.. "


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

"That's like the man saying "yes I had an affair but I didn't do it with the intention of hurting you that's the "last thing I wanted to happen.. "


Ummm....NO...it is nothing like that, because the part in the book I'm talking about is not involved with the subject matter of an AFFAIR, it is talking about simple day to day living and communication between a man and a wife.


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## ngonza (Nov 8, 2012)

After years of being together with a LOSER your right! People have told me "you will know when its time to let go and stop being sorry for his mistakes"
I hope today is the day I will not allow his manipulation to get a hold of my heart and soul. This morning I made a list of Pros and Cons and still my gut aches of the outcome..8 Pros 29 Cons. Holy Mother of God why are my eyes shut? I am the sorry A


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> But of course some men do. I'm pretty sure John Gray is just speaking of the top of the bell curve of men, the ones who don't actually intentionally try to hurt a woman's feelings.


I'm sure too..."cookie cutter"..and applying it to "all men"..that leaves a billion or 2 men who do intentionally try and hurt a woman's feelings..a far cry from "no men do"..


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

ngonza said:


> after years of being together with a loser your right! People have told me "you will know when its time to let go and stop being sorry for his mistakes"
> i hope today is the day i will not allow his manipulation to get a hold of my heart and soul. This morning i made a list of pros and cons and still my gut aches of the outcome..8 pros 29 cons. Holy mother of god why are my eyes shut? I am the sorry a


((((hugs))))))


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> "That's like the man saying "yes I had an affair but I didn't do it with the intention of hurting you that's the "last thing I wanted to happen.. "
> 
> 
> Ummm....NO...it is nothing like that, because the part in the book I'm talking about is not involved with the subject matter of an AFFAIR, it is talking about simple day to day living and communication between a man and a wife.


Oh O.K ...60% of men have affairs..sorry I didn't know you meant "day to day " living and communications..


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Ok, yes, so you made your point that I should not have used "no men" and instead should have used "most men do not". That does not mean that my point itself is wrong or misguided. I am a champion of better communication between men and women (in relationships with each other), and understanding dynamics like this are helpful. Feel free to ignore it or try to make my point invalid or whatever...I know it is a good point and a good place to work from to achieve better understanding between spouses.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

60% of MEN have affairs? Where does that statistic come from?


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

ngonza said:


> After years of being together with a LOSER your right! People have told me "you will know when its time to let go and stop being sorry for his mistakes"
> I hope today is the day I will not allow his manipulation to get a hold of my heart and soul. This morning I made a list of Pros and Cons and still my gut aches of the outcome..8 Pros 29 Cons. Holy Mother of God why are my eyes shut? I am the sorry A


Sometimes, one of those "pros" can balance a dozen of the "cons." Don't beat yourself up over staying against the odds! But I do hope you'll decide to ONLY accept good treatment from others.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Ok, yes, so you made your point that I should not have used "no men" and instead should have used "most men do not". That does not mean that my point itself is wrong or misguided. I am a champion of better communication between men and women (in relationships with each other), and understanding dynamics like this are helpful. Feel free to ignore it or try to make my point invalid or whatever...I know it is a good point and a good place to work from to achieve better understanding between spouses.


I don't even buy the most men "do not" stance..I'm not invalidating your your point .Did you write men are from mars women are from venus?Better communication would be "most men" should realize its obvious some of the **** they say and do "reasonably " WILL hurt the womans feelings so stop doing /saying it or expect the end result .."hurt feelings"..

If my husband tells me a joke not "intending " on offending me but yet it does..its distasteful to me..he says "I didnt mean it to offend" does that mean its "less offensive" if he keeps repeating the joke ?In fact after he knows I find it offensive and he keeps telling it it IS intentional..And its not because hes from "mars"..actually hes from Earth same as me and I can push his buttons all day long and say "I didn't intend to"..so you shouldn't be upset ..then when he goes ape say he's "crazy" .a.k.a gas lighting..


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## ngonza (Nov 8, 2012)

KathyBatesel said:


> Sometimes, one of those "pros" can balance a dozen of the "cons." Don't beat yourself up over staying against the odds! But I do hope you'll decide to ONLY accept good treatment from others.


Do you think my years together is a PRO? I am confused! I been toggling this situation for a whole year! Stay or let go? If there is no visability of another women..just signs too many now! DO I just hang on? and keep my eyes OPEN? I really need help!


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

ngonza said:


> Do you think my years together is a PRO? I am confused! I been toggling this situation for a whole year! Stay or let go? If there is no visability of another women..just signs too many now! DO I just hang on? and keep my eyes OPEN? I really need help!


I do think without "burrying "your head in the sand it helps to highlight a positive..

Or are you saying there is a liklihood your husband is cheating?Maybe I will search..Did you post that your husband smells like coconut sometimes and he isn't interested in you sexually?sorry if I got you mixed up...


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## WEBELONG2GETHER (Jan 22, 2012)

KathyBatesel said:


> WEBELONG2GETHER said:
> 
> 
> > And how is your approach working out for you? Sounds like it results in a lot of anger. Sorry, but I opt for harmony and change instead.
> ...


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## janefw (Jun 26, 2012)

ngonza said:


> Do you think my years together is a PRO? I am confused! I been toggling this situation for a whole year! Stay or let go? If there is no visability of another women..just signs too many now! DO I just hang on? and keep my eyes OPEN? I really need help!


IMO, it is to your credit that you tried to repair your marriage. It is always a good thing to have hope, to work at your marriage, to have faith, and to forgive. No-one should lose those positive attributes. However, when your SO shows no willingness to changes and his or her actions cause you pain/hurt/harm, then you should protect yourself. Nobody deserves to be cheated on and treated with contempt.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

I have to say this..my 4 yo grandson is a great teacher..he pulls the cats tail..the cat goes YOW and scratches him..My grandson comes to me and says "he scratched me" ..I said ..well yeah but did you pull his tail " he says "yeah..I say well that hurt him and I guess he scratched you in response and to get you to stop"..he says "but I didn't mean to hurt him"..LOL!! ...I say ..well he didn't mean to hurt you either so ...soak on that ...


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## WEBELONG2GETHER (Jan 22, 2012)

Mavash. said:


> Sadly this is on you. If you stopped this awful behavior from the get go you wouldn't have the need for an apology. This is a boundary problem not an apology problem. Your husband isn't sorry at all hence why he doesn't say it and why he yells/screams over and over and over again.
> 
> I say this with heartfelt love in my heart. I used to be an angry spouse and I promise you I wasn't sorry either. I felt he deserved it. Yes I was wrong and I admit that now but then? Nope I just kept doing it because I wanted to.


Mavash I totally agree, and i am trying to establish some boundaries instead of leaving his a$$ or starting an affair (which I wanted to) just to deal with the stress of living with him. 

Stupidly I put up with it for so long, it is hard to dig myself out of this hole. I want to scream:scratchhead:


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## tryingtobebetter (Aug 6, 2012)

This thread reminds me of a story from the monastery (we can learn a lot from monks).

A wise abbot was walking in the cloister one day. A novice monk went past him carrying a box of china. The bottom gave way (novice should have had his hands under the box).

Crash. Bits of china everywhere

The novice said to the abbot 'I am sorry Father Abbot but the bottom gave way.'

The Abbot replied 'Thank you dear brother. The apology would have been more perfect without the excuse'.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> Stupidly I put up with it for so long, it is hard to dig myself out of this hole. I want to scream


I think you are frustrated (understatement) because you envision something better but have no "control" over your husbands end of that much better and happier life..IMHO???YOU have permission to scream..(do so without scaring anyone or waking the neighbors up)..Let go of you have any 'control" beyond being decent and good towards your husband (how you would treat a stranger )..and contemplate in a real way moving on..(without him)..


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

dallasapple said:


> No man intentionally tries to hurt your feelings ????:rofl:


I can only say that anyone, man or woman, who has never found themselves angry enough to say or do something to intentionally hurt their partner's feelings (at least once) must be living and acting in the most superficial relationship possible.

Hurt feelings are hurt feelings. Whether accidental or purposeful, the hurt is the same. Misunderstanding, misinterpretation, miscommunication, misplaced or misguided anger, when someone's feelings are hurt in a relationship it is very unlikely that their partner had absolutely nothing to do with it. If you hurt someone's feelings an apology is appropriate.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> I can only say that anyone, man or woman, who has never found themselves angry enough to say or do something to intentionally hurt their partner's feelings (at least once) must be living and acting in the most superficial relationship possible.


AGREED!!

But hey read "men are from mars women are from venus" so you can "learn"..:lol:


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> I can only say that anyone, man or woman, who has never found themselves angry enough to say or do something to intentionally hurt their partner's feelings (at least once) must be living and acting in the most superficial relationship possible.


"men" would never do that..its just not in their nature to "intentionally" hurt their spouses feelings..(or probably anyone) its the "bell curve"..I'm wondering if the "bell curve" shows women do?Oh well its been about 7 or 8 years since I read "men mars women venus"..I'm not tempted to read it again..actually I think I turned it in to 2nd hand book store and got 35 cents for it.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Wow dallsasapple....not sure why you are coming down so hard on my one comment, but sheesh....have at it and have fun there with that. 

I have not been with men who intentionally hurt my feelings, so I will just speak for myself since you apparently don't believe there are men who don't intentionally hurt women's feelings. 

If a man was intentionally trying to hurt my feelings, I wouldn't be there the next day, so I guess I wouldn't know about those men.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> Wow dallsasapple....not sure why you are coming down so hard on my one comment, but sheesh....have at it and have fun there with that.
> 
> I have not been with men who intentionally hurt my feelings, so I will just speak for myself since you apparently don't believe there are men who don't intentionally hurt women's feelings.
> 
> *If a man was intentionally trying to hurt my feelings, I wouldn't be there the next day*, so I guess I wouldn't know about those men.


I hear ya. Been there done that. Not fun whatsoever. 

There are gentlemen who respect you out there and then there's the alternative. I don't associate long with the alternative.


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## ATC529R (Oct 31, 2012)

I find my zero apology and don't answer questions approach works best.


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## ngonza (Nov 8, 2012)

dallasapple said:


> I do think without "burrying "your head in the sand it helps to highlight a positive..
> 
> Or are you saying there is a liklihood your husband is cheating?Maybe I will search..Did you post that your husband smells like coconut sometimes and he isn't interested in you sexually?sorry if I got you mixed up...


No not me about the coconut but I did smell a sweet perfume in little areas around his Tshirts almost every week! Nevertheless.. 
Does anyone think my marriage/ separation reconsilement is worth it ! by the PROS and CONS the CONS outweight the PROS.


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## ngonza (Nov 8, 2012)

Maybe I will go back to Divorce Separation blogs. 

"Sorry" simply means to regret your choice or action towards another being, or feeling remorse. It can also mean that the sorry person "never meant to do it" or "will never do it again". It also means that the person who is sorry really wants another chance to do it right. THIS ISNT ME.. .


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

I just say. Stop crying woman or I'll give her something to cry about.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> I just say. Stop crying woman or I'll give her something to cry about.



:rofl:


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

ngonza said:


> Does anyone think my marriage/ separation reconsilement is worth it ! by the PROS and CONS the CONS outweight the PROS.


Please start your own thread with this question; it's not nice to hijack someone else's thread. And really, please do...you sound like you really do need some advice.

The rest of y'all that have their feathers ruffled...can we please refocus back to the topic at hand? I have read many very useful replies so far, but it's kinda hard to sort through them amongst the slightly off-topic bickering.


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## janefw (Jun 26, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> I have noticed a pattern with my husband that actually has pretty much always been the case, but I hadn't consciously thought about it until recently. He pretty much NEVER says I'm sorry voluntarily and without a "but..." The only times he will apologize to me for saying/doing something hurtful to me is if I confront him about it directly. Even then, most times his apology has a "but"..."I'm sorry I got mad and yelled at you for wanting to get counseling for yourself, *but* you have to understand that I was really tired that night and you took me by surprise and..."
> 
> So, he will either go to bed angry or leave for work angry and give me the ice cold shoulder, then the next morning or when he gets home from work, he acts all fine and talkative, asks how my day was, does things to try to compensate like being overly attentive to me....but he will NEVER say he's sorry for acting like an ass and allowing me to be upset about it all day or night. I've become so accustomed to this, I don't let it ruin my day anymore like I used to, but it still irks me that he can act badly and then expect me to just forget all about it pretend it never happened.
> 
> ...


I sometimes have to think for a while before I apologize. I want to consider how I'm in the wrong, and make sure I really am sorry for what I said. I hate saying it just to appease. But if I have done something to apologize for, then my h will get a straight, honest apology with no "buts" included. Adding a "but" to an apology is the act of a person who doesn't accept that they really did anything wrong, so it's an empty apology. 

I try to make my kids think about their apologies. Sometimes when they were grounded for bad behavior, they would come and just give a brief "sorry" and I would say to them "what are you sorry for?" Sometimes that would confound them, but it made them think about what they did, and then I would get a proper apology that was related to their behavior, and not just an empty word. Hopefully this well help them when they grow up to give genuine apologies, and not "but" apologies.

Oh, I also hate the stonewalling - the cold shoulder and silence. And doing things for you to "show you" he's sorry - that's b.s. too. 

Is that perhaps how he was raised to do things? He could be re-trained, probably.


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## ngonza (Nov 8, 2012)

Your right .... doing so ....now! I'M SORRY!


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Waking...I can't remember, did you get your H's consent to join you in MC? This would definitely be a topic to discuss with a counselor.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

ngonza said:


> Your right .... doing so ....now! I'M SORRY!


Now if only men could learn to do this


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> Now if only men could learn to do this


I'm sorry, I just can't.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Waking...I can't remember, did you get your H's consent to join you in MC? This would definitely be a topic to discuss with a counselor.


Yes, he reluctantly agreed to go, although he doesn't really see the need for it. Tomorrow is our first session. And yes, this will be a subject for discussion, along with the rest of our many communication issues. 19 years of him being an emotional vampire, 19 years of me enabling him to suck the life out of me and building resentment and emotionally detaching...we have a long road ahead. I really can't predict whether we will make it through as a couple. Maybe, maybe not. Either way, this breakdown in communication between us has to stop.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> 19 years of him being an emotional vampire, 19 years of me enabling him to suck the life out of me and building resentment and emotionally detaching...we have a long road ahead. I really can't predict whether we will make it through as a couple. Maybe, maybe not. Either way, this breakdown in communication between us has to stop.


Good start!!!Just tell him he cant stick a hose up on you anymore to suck out your life force!


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

OP it is no different in marriage then in the rest of life, if you do something wrong you take responsibility for those actions and apologise. Simple. Just acting all friendly the next day is not an apology, it is actually quite cowardly.

Even my 10 year old knows that. 

And yes men can and do apologise but IME it is the men with much higher EQ's that find it comes naturally.


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## janefw (Jun 26, 2012)

Holland said:


> OP it is no different in marriage then in the rest of life, if you do something wrong you take responsibility for those actions and apologise. Simple. Just acting all friendly the next day is not an apology, it is actually quite cowardly.
> 
> Even my 10 year old knows that.
> 
> And yes men can and do apologise but IME it is the men with much higher EQ's that find it comes naturally.


:smthumbup:


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

WEBELONG2GETHER said:


> KathyBatesel said:
> 
> 
> > Have to be honest my approach is not working too well. I have tried your approach also and found that i got walked over. My husband has never apologized (and why should he) he did not do anything. (always his response). I have never met someone so perfect. I always jokingly ask him to show me his nail pierced hands.
> ...


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