# Does your wife ever initiate sex?



## freddie_fender

Curious, but we have been together for 8 years, no kids. Within those 8 years, my wife has probably initiated sex less than 5 times.

We have discussed it numerous times, how it would be nice if she took the lead the odd time. But still, it never happens. I believe the last time she initiated sex was at least 2 years ago.

Is this odd? Is it too much to ask of her to initiate once in a awhile? Any comments would be wonderful! Thank you.


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## cody5

No. Never. Doesn't seem to enjoy it when I initiate either, so we pretty much stopped.


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## Mike188

My wife rarely initiates. She seem sto like sex when we have it, but I have to do all the work. Occasionally I would also like to fell her desire and go after me. I do know women (not intimately) that really like sex and like to initiate. Our next door neighbors got a divorce because she said that her husband wasn't giving her enough sex.

On th eflip side we know another couple that hasn't had sex in 14 months. He gets is probably once a year. I remember him coming to talk to my wife and I before he got married. He knew his wife (and her family) had a lot of issues and he was having second thought about who he was marrying.


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## Macca86

Never, been together for 5 years, mid 20s and I reckon she has initiated sex 2 or 3 times total.

So lately I just stopped trying, I really cant be bothered to initiate when I know its just going to be me doing all the work while she pretends to enjoy it.

Its weird, its like she has no concept that a guy may want to feel desired/wanted/seduced/ from time to time.

I made some remark a few weeks back as to how we rarely have sex - to which she got upset and told me that she watned sex and I didnt blah blah blah (to her just being naked is the signal?) to which I said that she never makes me feel like I want to do it in the first place.

She was pretty upset over that for the next few days - I really cant care anymore.

So back to your question, I wouldnt say this is "normal" but its not exactly unusual either.


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## mygirls2

Hey guys,
I know this is the men's spot to post stuff, but I couldn't help but to chime in ) 

I wouldn't say that I initiate sex, but I do not turn it down. My husband is always wanting sex and I feel as though I can never live up to his sexual appetite...however, I have one as well that is not taken care of the way that I want it. I would be more than willing to hop in the sack if he would pay attention to the emotional needs that I long for. I want to be romanced...not just a quicky then it's over. I think you need to just be open to her about how you feel, so that way she knows and understands what it is you want. My husband did not tell me he wanted for the longest time..and finally we speak openly about our sexual needs/desires/fantasies and it has added some sparks to our relationship since we've had kids. The only thing though is sometimes I am not up to trying everything he wants, so I tell him to slow it down and we'll get there with time...And I know that may take away the excitement or whatever, but sometimes I can feel like I need to perform like porn stars would and it can get intimidating! 

Also..sometimes I get stressed..I will be honest I have gone months where SEX was not on my mind...and the very thought of having to take time out of my day to perform stressed me out even more. When my kids go to bed is MY time..I have enough stress thinking about bills and everything that needs to be done. Selfish as it may seem, it's the truth. And I know now, to keep him happy it really doesn't take much...just attention and some sex ) We want attention too! And...one thing I absolutely love is to be complimented about my performance in some way while we are having sex (and throughout the day)...because we women worry about how we look or if we are pleasing you...as great as sex is...we still stress...

Anyways, 
That's all I've got for now. Good luck guys!


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## lisa1994

Hi, Guys, there are many times I long to have sex but it seems like he doesn't have any desire at all. women has so much to do in the evening, dinner, homework, make sure all the kids washed and go to bed on time, clean dshes, check emails, paying bills, by the time I go to bed, he is sound sleep.... guys, if you want to have sex, help your wife to do chaos, help your wife with kids, then she will lay down at the same time, you will get want you want... I do want him to make love with me all the time, but I don't get it because he is sleeping by the time I got into the bed. so who to blame?


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## kendall2

My wife initiates more than me. We average 3 times a week and she probalbly initiates it 2 of those times. Definetly helps if you complement her during the day. Women are like cruise ships and men are speedboats. They take a long time to turn around so get them thinking about sex hours before bedtime by flirting, kissing, touching. etc


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## Mrs. Segedy

As a woman, I often initiate or at least try to initiate sex with my husband. I love that intimate time we share, I don't think it should be the job of any one person in the relationship initiate sex. But that's just my personal opinion.


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## Goodguy

I have told my wife I am ready to go anytime. I can have a fever, be asleep, heck if I get shot and can be stablized, I am good to go. I dont want there to ever be a time where she felt like it and I missed it. Of course, in 18 years of marriage, she rarely wants to. And I am not allowed to wake her up, or sneak in anything while the kids are awake, or bother her when she is tired or has a headache. Talk about working with your hands tied.

I could maybe understand if I didnt tell her how much I love her, if I didnt help around the house, if I wasnt attentive to her needs, if I was an A, if I drank or did drugs, or if I did all I could to avoid work. But I am none of that.

In a lot of ways, the saying nice guys finish last is a very very true statement. 

I cant even believe there are women out there that actually desire their husbands and want to please them. Seriously, that has to be a myth.

I have been with one woman my whole life, she is and will always be my one and only love. I have been faithful to her, I still think she is beautiful and I tell her that. But my limited experience is probably why my view of relationships is so skewed.


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## HopeinHouston

I know that this can be tough. I always dsired my wife to initiate more and for years she didn't, and it was an issue. I don't know what help it can be, but I will say that as my wife got older, and more comfortable with her sexuality she did open up. It took 12 or 13 years of marriage, but today she is very forward and open and does frequently initiate. Be patient, don't push as it can only make things worse, but at the same time try to be oopen and honest - in a loving way - in regards to your needs.


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## Millania007

took me 10 years to start initiating..took my hubby telling me REPEATEDLY that he wants to feel desired, I FINALLY took the hint, but I still only initiate 1 out of 3 times per week, but hey..at least I am trying


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## mike1

I rarely try to initiate because 95% of the time I get turned down. Pretty much I just have to wait until she decides to initiates.


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## cherrypie18

90% of the time I initiated it but my husband turned me down most of that time. I never turned him down because I was always up for it unless really sick.


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## cody5

I don't understand men turning down sex. Doesn't compute.


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## cherrypie18

cody5 said:


> I don't understand men turning down sex. Doesn't compute.


I've said this before and I'll say it again, I never thought men could say no to sex until I got married lol

My guess they say no because they either get off to porn before we initiate or there's someone else.


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## turnera

Goodguy said:


> I have told my wife I am ready to go anytime. I can have a fever, be asleep, heck if I get shot and can be stablized, I am good to go. I dont want there to ever be a time where she felt like it and I missed it. Of course, in 18 years of marriage, she rarely wants to. And I am not allowed to wake her up, or sneak in anything while the kids are awake, or bother her when she is tired or has a headache. Talk about working with your hands tied.
> 
> I could maybe understand if I didnt tell her how much I love her, if I didnt help around the house, if I wasnt attentive to her needs, if I was an A, if I drank or did drugs, or if I did all I could to avoid work. But I am none of that.
> 
> In a lot of ways, the saying nice guys finish last is a very very true statement.
> 
> I cant even believe there are women out there that actually desire their husbands and want to please them. Seriously, that has to be a myth.
> 
> I have been with one woman my whole life, she is and will always be my one and only love. I have been faithful to her, I still think she is beautiful and I tell her that. But my limited experience is probably why my view of relationships is so skewed.


Goodguy, I'll tell you a big secret a lot of people don't know. YOU have an idea of what your wife wants, but you have no idea probably if what you THINK your wife wants is what she really wants.

In other words, if you do the dishes because you think that should make her love you, but she frankly doesn't give the kitchen two seconds' thought, you are wasting your time. In reality, she's been harboring resentment against you because she has asked you 3 times to hang up those window boxes she bought 2 years ago. 

So guess what? You ain't gettin' none!

Go to marriagebuilders.com and print out the Love Buster questionnaire, and ask her to fill it out. It will tell you what YOU are doing that causes her to resent you and not be in the mood. It will tell you what to STOP doing.

If you can make a concerted effort to stop doing all your LBs, she will probably become more interested in you.

THEN, you print out their Emotional Needs questionnaire and ask her to fill it out. It will tell you what are the most important things in HER life - things like honesty, conversation, domestic support, financial support...it's different for each person.

You need to know what her top 5 ENs are, and you need to make sure that you always are the one person meeting all those ENs for her. Make her think warm fuzzies when she thinks of you because you're always making her happy.

Then she will want to have sex with you (barring emotional issues preventing her from doing so). Women typically have to be emotionally connected with their man before they will want to have sex; their sex drive is usually not as high, so it's not their body pushing them to have sex; and they won't have sex just to have sex, like many men will - there has to be emotion involved. That's why many men say their wife just lays there. To them - not getting their ENs met or harboring resentment for LBs - they believe the man just wants their cavity and couldn't care less if she was a blowup doll - and they know it - why else would he just ignore everything that means anything to her (her ENs)?


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## cao428

Goodguy,

I think you have a good thing, and it's so sweet to hear how you adore your wife. But I want you to know women do love sex too, at least I do with my husband. 

Maybe it's because he's away so much, but I look forward to when ever he comes home to be close to him. It's something I live for...(but not all I live for!). Yet we will have it 5 times a week and we are in our 50's. I don't care if it's in the middle of the night...I would love that if he still did that..He used to when we were younger.

I don't know why some women are indifferent, maybe the same reason some men are.(I was surprised to read this on this forum!)
It might be something men don't talk about because of the "guy thing" and they might be embarrassed. But I think everyone is different and all people have different sexual drives. If you are matched..you are lucky...or blessed. 

I think you should be honest with your wife and let her know in a nice way you would like it more often.


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## Freak On a Leash

Yes, I initiate sex. But I think a big problem is what each person regards at "initiating". 

To me, if my husband comes home and I put my arms around him and start whispering suggestive things in his ear then I'm initiating things. I like the whole aspect of planning ahead and suspense. To my husband, the person who is initiating is the one who makes the first move. Often he's the one who will actually make the first move but I'm ready and willing so in the end does it really matter anyway? The problem is when one person is never into having and sex and the other is always wanting. 

I guess with us, it's a combination of these things. Usually we both seem to know when it's "time" and are in the mood and we start right in. Occasionally one of us will want it and the other will be too tired, etc, but that's part of being a human being and sometimes it can't be helped.


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## ONE

My wife does every week. The way we have been able to do this is that we have agreed to make love/have sex 2 times per week. I initiate on one of three days (Sun, Mon, Tues) and then my wife initiates on either (Wed, Thurs, Fri). This has been one of the greatest things we have done in our message. Neither of us can decline when the other initiates so the rejection is no longer there. This has taken some time to get to this point, but it is possible. We've helped other couples get to this point in their marriage and it is amazing to see the transformation that happens in their marriage.


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## Oneoftheguys

:iagree::iagree:


cherrypie18 said:


> I've said this before and I'll say it again, I never thought men could say no to sex until I got married lol
> 
> My guess they say no because they either get off to porn before we initiate or there's someone else.


My husband has had issues with affairs, sexual addiction, on line porn etc. I didn't understand why I was never enough. Fast forward through years of treatment and counseling and now I can initiate and he turns me down. This happens a couple of times per week but he denies it when I try to discuss it. VERY CONFUSING. I really enjoy sex and always have but if I try to wake him up he says no, not just no but her actually gets angry. Is that normal? I have recently stopped asking for sex. I have considered that he may be seeing someone else but he says no. I am pretty cute for my age, go to the gym, I rarely turn him down. There are guys here that wouldn't let a gun shot wound stop them :smthumbup: Is it just because he is getting older,47, and/or is now in the normal sex drive range?


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## SimplyAmorous

How old are you "oneoftheguys"? My husband always had higher drive than me until he hit mid 40's, but in all fairness, my drive went through the roof, so this is why, or I probably would have never noticed a difference. I feel like I iniatate more than him, but he feels it is equal. 

With the history you describe of him (affairs, sex addiction, online Porn) , could this still be going on & he is still hiding ?? Was his issues ever successfully treated and for a specific amount of time under his belt?

OR if he is really stressed on the Job, tired all the time, falling asleep after work, brain fog, then it could be "hormonal"- a drop in his testosterone levels -which affects "desire" & sex drive. Men loose a little of this hormone every passing year as they age. Some more than others.


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## Oneoftheguys

With the history you describe of him (affairs, sex addiction, online Porn) , could this still be going on & he is still hiding ?? Was his issues ever successfully treated and for a specific amount of time under his belt?

I am 45. It is possible he could be hiding it since he now knows what my computer skills are and can cover his tracks. He has been in individual counseling for 5 yrs. It is every 2 weeks now. He has never asked me to attend with him and I have offered. He does not discuss his issues. 

Goodguy wants to know if women initiate sex and the answer is OH YEA we do. My question back is why do I get turned down. I think I can understand how men feel when they are with a woman who says no. I have considered taking my friend of 20+ yrs up on his offer to never tell me no and to provide the nuturing I crave. I know that is wrong but it is tempting. He hasn't had sex with his wife for nearly 2 years. I do not understand.


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## Atholk

The majority of women have a sex drive that works by responding to male attention. They are wired not to initate but to respond. You may as well ask your wife to be taller than you. Neither one is happening.

You're just assuming that the lack of her asking is a lack of her interest, it really may not be. You're assuming that her sexuality is wired the same as your sexuality and feeling hurt because she's not approaching you aggressively (like a male sexual approach) for sex.

Just get over it lol.


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## blondie11

Men can definitley say NO. I am always after my husband. He says I grope, fondle & want it too much!


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## Goodguy

Thanks for the advice. I will absolutely look into those questionaires.

We have gone through counseling and we have read the 5 Love Languages. She says she does not have one. She has also admitted that I am no longer attractive to her because I have put on some weight. About 3 years ago I found out she was having a cyber affair. That came out of left field, I never even remotely suspected it. Trusted her completely.

She ended it, we went to counseling. She has worked on being nicer and she is accomodating if I ask. (Within the parameters I have laid out) We have talked frankly about our sex life, but I think the bottom line is that I will never be the guy that she desires. She denies it, and got mad when I brought it up once. It is just far easier to stay with me, we dont fight, I treat her well, we have kids and they are not growing up in a destructive home. But still, there is that very real part of me that feels sorry for myself. I deserved better but this is as good as it will probably ever be. I cannot do it alone and the counseling really didnt do much.


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## turnera

You CAN change your marriage. It just requires work. If you focus on not LBing her and meeting her ENs, and spending 15 hours a week together doing 'dating' type stuff, she will start to look at you again as the guy she looks forward to seeing. But it takes work. And the longer the marriage, the more work required.

Try getting this book: Amazon.com: 52 Invitations To Grrreat Sex: It All Begins with a Lick (9780974259918): Laura Corn: Books
Could make a huge difference in the bedroom.


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## okeydokie

men turning down sex should be a huge red flag for a woman.

i will also add that my wife initiates sometimes, but its extremely subtle, she doesn't dress provacatively or jump on me and tear my clothes off (i wish), but she has her little signals, its just still way to infrequently


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## turnera

The only time I do is when I know my H 'deserves' it, such as if he's been gone on business for a week, and it would mean a lot to him for me to do so.

I never do for my own purpose; could do without it altogether, if it was up to me. I do it because I'm his wife and you do things for your spouse.


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## Atholk

Goodguy said:


> She has also admitted that I am no longer attractive to her because I have put on some weight.


So lose the weight. All the counseling in the world won't change her lack of attraction to you into attraction.

Lose the weight.


Lose the weight.


Lose the weight.


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## misslady

Well as a woman, initiating sex is akward for me, so therefore I don't enjoy it as much as he does when I initiate, but he loves it. I find it hard to understand that he needs this, we've been to counseling and everything and can't come up with a solution, but helping around the house does turn a woman on, but he doesnt get that part, so that makes me not care about what he needs.


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## Goodguy

Atholk said:


> So lose the weight. All the counseling in the world won't change her lack of attraction to you into attraction.
> 
> Lose the weight.
> 
> 
> Lose the weight.
> 
> 
> Lose the weight.


I have lost the weight. Married at 195, gained up to 290, weight now at 213. I will never be a flat belly or body builder and frankly I should not have to be. Hard to stay motivated when you lose that much weight for your wife, and you still dont do it for her. 

Would it be ok if I stopped thinking she is attractive because her hair is turning grey, or because she has gained weight, along with some wrinkles and scars over the years? I submitt to you that I would be pretty superficial if I did. She is beautiful to me, and I desire her inspite of any changes in her outer appearence. I will always feel this way because I love her in a way that is clearly different than she loves me.

Maybe I am wrong, maybe if I was dating right now there would be no one that would find me attractive. But I do not believe that. Btw, turned down last night, headache of course.

Are there women that rarely have headaches? I have about 2 a year. Maybe it is just a man thing.


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## turnera

The point is, you are not creating the 'love' in her that makes her want to please you, whether she wants it or not. That's not a criticism, but a valid point.

Women have to CARE about their man to want to do it. They care by being in a relationship that feeds their soul. If you are Love Busting her, no amount of pleasing her will ever make her want you. 

Bottom line, you have to LEARN what she is thinking. Somehow. You have to understand her. That usually requires communication.

So for now, I'd be spending my time working on communication, NOT Love Busting, meeting her Emotional Needs, and quit hyping on whether or not you get turned down. For now.

Note: If she has mental issues, such as past abuse, this won't necessarily work because she'll have demons she has to face. Again, though, it's up to you to determine this, by learning more about her.


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## okeydokie

turnera said:


> The point is, you are not creating the 'love' in her that makes her want to please you, whether she wants it or not. That's not a criticism, but a valid point.
> 
> Women have to CARE about their man to want to do it. They care by being in a relationship that feeds their soul. If you are Love Busting her, no amount of pleasing her will ever make her want you.
> 
> Bottom line, you have to LEARN what she is thinking. Somehow. You have to understand her. That usually requires communication.
> 
> So for now, I'd be spending my time working on communication, NOT Love Busting, meeting her Emotional Needs, and quit hyping on whether or not you get turned down. For now.
> 
> Note: If she has mental issues, such as past abuse, this won't necessarily work because she'll have demons she has to face. Again, though, it's up to you to determine this, by learning more about her.



so she gets to sit and watch him go to work on making her feel good and then she might want to be intimate? what do you think she should do during this time?


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## turnera

It depends on what HAS been going on. LIke I said, if she has mental issues, it's a whole other ball of wax. But if she has withdrawn because he's been a typical male who doesn't realize a woman has to be tended to the way a woman NEEDS to be tended to, and she now has no feelings for him, it's up to him to balance the scales.


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## okeydokie

turnera said:


> It depends on what HAS been going on. LIke I said, if she has mental issues, it's a whole other ball of wax. But if she has withdrawn because he's been a typical male who doesn't realize a woman has to be tended to the way a woman NEEDS to be tended to, and she now has no feelings for him, it's up to him to balance the scales.



i'm not going to do the typical point counter point thing with you. but you have said volumes by using the term "typical male" and by stating that a woman needs to be tended to and its up to him to balance the scales, i think alot of women should learn how to tend to their husbands and quit playing the victim role.


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## Goodguy

turnera said:


> It depends on what HAS been going on. LIke I said, if she has mental issues, it's a whole other ball of wax. But if she has withdrawn because he's been a typical male who doesn't realize a woman has to be tended to the way a woman NEEDS to be tended to, and she now has no feelings for him, it's up to him to balance the scales.


I dont think she is mental, but I do think she battles some depression. We have a son with special needs and two others that, though they are healthy, are much more of a handful. I wonder if she has some past issues. She has an uncle that she spent a lot of time with that is now in jail for child molesting. Several of her cousins were victims but she swears she cannot remember anything even remotely inappropriately happening.

All that said, I am not a typical male. I waited until I was married before I had sex for peats sake. I treat her like a queen. I get up with the kids and let her sleep in, I cook almost every meal, I clean the house, I am the sole provider for the family, I do not lose my temper or even get upset that often. I do it all. And yet, somehow it comes back on me to do even more. The bar is set so high that I just dont think I can do it. I cant stop drinking, or beating her, or yelling at her, or sleeping around. 

There just isnt much more I can do. I tried counseling, I did everything that was suggested. She could not even send me a note or email once a week just to let me know she was thinking about me. And I understand it, if she does not feel that way toward me then sure it is going to be a chore to do. But I read all the notes she shared with another man, and all the time she made to email him and tell him how much she missed him not to mention the side of her that I did not even know existed.

I will do the LB and EN questionaires, I have them printed out. But again, it will be me trying to do that much more and she will not have it in her to do.

The thing is, this all just comes off as a giant whine fest to her and here on the boards. I love her. I do not believe she will ever be unfaithful again. She does treat me better now, and we do spend time together, quality and physical. As I said, our household is not destructive to our children in anyway, and divorce is not an option I will ever choose unless she is unfaithful again.

I just wish she would work harder at it you know? I wish she would listen to a counselor. I wish she would read the one book I asked her to read. I wish she would, even one time, whisper in my ear that she wanted me. She says she wishes I felt better about myself, but I feel great about myself. The only place I struggle is with her. She is the one that told me I am not attractive to her, but I am married to her, she is the one person that can give me that confidence. That can look over my emotional and physical needs. I am not allowed to go outside our marriage for that.

I guess that is enough for now. I really do appreciate the advise, and getting this out of my system does help. There is no one I else I can share this with.


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## turnera

Ok, then, I will tell you something I see over and over and over again, when it comes to the typical female (see, okeydokie? I am not discriminating!). 

Women need their man to be strong. Yes, they want him to care and help and share the load. They do NOT want him to CARRY THE ENTIRE LOAD.

Guess what happens when the man does all the work, puts her on a pedestal, spoils her rotten, and then sits back and hopes she will give him a crumb in return?

She starts hating him.

Why should she work harder? You DO EVERYTHING!

Here's what I would do.

I would get a posterboard, and sit down with her and write out everything that goes on in your household. Just list it all. Everything that has to get done in a month's time. Once you have it all listed out, ask her to pick 5 things she wants to take care of, telling her that YOU will then pick 5 things YOU will take care of. Then ask her to pick another 5. Then you pick 5. See, you're letting her pick the cream of the crop and still holding up your support.

But you ARE telling her that she needs to be responsible for half of taking care of your house/family/husband.

She needs you to be stronger, take charge, EXPECT something from her.


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## turnera

okeydokie said:


> i'm not going to do the typical point counter point thing with you. but you have said volumes by using the term "typical male" and by stating that a woman needs to be tended to and its up to him to balance the scales, i think alot of women should learn how to tend to their husbands and quit playing the victim role.


 Go do some research, okeydokie. You'll find volumes written about how men tend to take women for granted, how women tend to not voice their opinion, how the women make sure the man IS tended to (laundry, groceries, appointments, kidcare, etc.) but then sits back and waits for the men to notice it and reciprocate. 

How the women often then build resentment because they are not being vocal about what they are lacking in the marriage, and also resentful that the man expects bedroom time whenever he wants it and gets resentful himself for not getting it, but doesn't take the time to wonder WHY she doesn't want to, or else doesn't KNOW that he should wonder why, as men really just aren't wired to be into their emotions.

Read Men Are From Mars; Women Are From Venus, and you'll get the general gist of how the differences work for or against us.


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## MEM2020

Goodguy,
In a primate hierarchy the type of behavior you engage in only happens when one primate is WAY WAY lower in the hierarchy than the other. 

So the message you are transmitting to her is that YOU think that you don't deserve her. That YOU think she is way higher on the social hierarchy than you. And that message causes her hard wired circuitry to tell her to stop mating with you. 

I am NOT suggesting you act like a "bad boy." I am suggesting that if you are smart you will assess all your behavior in the context of the message it sends and stop sending her the message that you don't deserve her. 





Goodguy said:


> I dont think she is mental, but I do think she battles some depression. We have a son with special needs and two others that, though they are healthy, are much more of a handful. I wonder if she has some past issues. She has an uncle that she spent a lot of time with that is now in jail for child molesting. Several of her cousins were victims but she swears she cannot remember anything even remotely inappropriately happening.
> 
> All that said, I am not a typical male. I waited until I was married before I had sex for peats sake. I treat her like a queen. I get up with the kids and let her sleep in, I cook almost every meal, I clean the house, I am the sole provider for the family, I do not lose my temper or even get upset that often. I do it all. And yet, somehow it comes back on me to do even more. The bar is set so high that I just dont think I can do it. I cant stop drinking, or beating her, or yelling at her, or sleeping around.
> 
> There just isnt much more I can do. I tried counseling, I did everything that was suggested. She could not even send me a note or email once a week just to let me know she was thinking about me. And I understand it, if she does not feel that way toward me then sure it is going to be a chore to do. But I read all the notes she shared with another man, and all the time she made to email him and tell him how much she missed him not to mention the side of her that I did not even know existed.
> 
> I will do the LB and EN questionaires, I have them printed out. But again, it will be me trying to do that much more and she will not have it in her to do.
> 
> The thing is, this all just comes off as a giant whine fest to her and here on the boards. I love her. I do not believe she will ever be unfaithful again. She does treat me better now, and we do spend time together, quality and physical. As I said, our household is not destructive to our children in anyway, and divorce is not an option I will ever choose unless she is unfaithful again.
> 
> I just wish she would work harder at it you know? I wish she would listen to a counselor. I wish she would read the one book I asked her to read. I wish she would, even one time, whisper in my ear that she wanted me. She says she wishes I felt better about myself, but I feel great about myself. The only place I struggle is with her. She is the one that told me I am not attractive to her, but I am married to her, she is the one person that can give me that confidence. That can look over my emotional and physical needs. I am not allowed to go outside our marriage for that.
> 
> I guess that is enough for now. I really do appreciate the advise, and getting this out of my system does help. There is no one I else I can share this with.


----------



## turnera

Exactly!


----------



## okeydokie

turnera said:


> Go do some research, okeydokie. You'll find volumes written about how men tend to take women for granted, how women tend to not voice their opinion, how the women make sure the man IS tended to (laundry, groceries, appointments, kidcare, etc.) but then sits back and waits for the men to notice it and reciprocate.
> 
> How the women often then build resentment because they are not being vocal about what they are lacking in the marriage, and also resentful that the man expects bedroom time whenever he wants it and gets resentful himself for not getting it, but doesn't take the time to wonder WHY she doesn't want to, or else doesn't KNOW that he should wonder why, as men really just aren't wired to be into their emotions.
> 
> Read Men Are From Mars; Women Are From Venus, and you'll get the general gist of how the differences work for or against us.


i said i wouldnt do this with you, however

when is enough enough for a woman. is there ever enough for a woman to not feel taken for granted? will her complicated and over calculating thinking process ever allow her to just say, wow this is a good guy i have here. he works, he does housework, he keeps up the yard and the pool, is completely and deeply involved in our kids lives, hes clean and neat, he listens to me and we make decisions together and he desires me and only me and still finds me exceptionally attractive. and all i really have to do to show him my affection is be regularly intimate with him (something i do enjoy when it happens).


why is this so complicated?

as always there are exceptions on both sides, bad husbands and bad wives and just plain bad people.


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## turnera

As with everything, it's all about balance. If BOTH people are honestly stopping and thinking about the other person, and not just being selfish, but rather caring about the other and wanting to improve their marriage, they will find ways so that both people get what they want.

In all the threads I've read over the last 10 years or so, at least 80%-90% of the women who have left their husband have left because they tell their husband what they are missing in the marriage, and the husband ignores what they say and continues to do what he is doing. Until the wife falls out of love with him (since he is not attempting to meet her needs), and leaves. Typically after the kids graduate.

And then the husband comes online and pleads for help, how to get his wife to love him again. Most times, it's too late; she's waited and waited and waited, and finally hardened her heart to him.

IMO, it's because men are raised by women. Who DO take care of all their needs. So they expect their wife to do the same thing. They marry a woman for sex, for a family, but also for a mother.

For the record, out of all the threads I've read, maybe 20% of them include a husband like you describe - who does housework, puts the same amount of time into raising the kids as the wife, and makes an effort to have regular conversations.


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## MEM2020

OD,
I really do think in your case it is the nice guy thing that is killing you. If a woman feels ill treated she is typically highly skilled at explaining SPECIFICALLY what she is unhappy about. It might or might not be "fair" but it is clear. 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
IME if you have a very unfiltered communication style in the relationship then you can avoid all the deception that goes on in these sexual conversations. 

The conversation is short and airtight if you stick to a script. As the high drive spouse you need to know two things:

1. Does making YOU happy make THEM happy?
2. Do they have a sexual aversion to you?

Thats really it. The sad thing is that I think the most common answer pattern is not YES/YES. I think the most common pattern is NO/NO. Meaning they don't have a sexual aversion, they just don't get a thrill from making you happy. Which is a relationship problem not a sexual problem per se. And it is VERY OFTEN caused by their thinking two things:
- You don't deserve them AND
- You would never leave them





In a primate hierarchy the type of behavior you engage in only happens when one primate is WAY WAY lower in the hierarchy than the other. 

So the message you are transmitting to her is that YOU think that you don't deserve her. That YOU think she is way higher on the social hierarchy than you. And that message causes her hard wired circuitry to tell her to stop mating with you. 

I am NOT suggesting you act like a "bad boy." I am suggesting that if you are smart you will assess all your behavior in the context of the message it sends and stop sending her the message that you don't deserve her. 





okeydokie said:


> i said i wouldnt do this with you, however
> 
> when is enough enough for a woman. is there ever enough for a woman to not feel taken for granted? will her complicated and over calculating thinking process ever allow her to just say, wow this is a good guy i have here. he works, he does housework, he keeps up the yard and the pool, is completely and deeply involved in our kids lives, hes clean and neat, he listens to me and we make decisions together and he desires me and only me and still finds me exceptionally attractive. and all i really have to do to show him my affection is be regularly intimate with him (something i do enjoy when it happens).
> 
> 
> why is this so complicated?
> 
> as always there are exceptions on both sides, bad husbands and bad wives and just plain bad people.


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## Goodguy

okeydokie said:


> i said i wouldnt do this with you, however
> 
> when is enough enough for a woman. is there ever enough for a woman to not feel taken for granted? will her complicated and over calculating thinking process ever allow her to just say, wow this is a good guy i have here. he works, he does housework, he keeps up the yard and the pool, is completely and deeply involved in our kids lives, hes clean and neat, he listens to me and we make decisions together and he desires me and only me and still finds me exceptionally attractive. and all i really have to do to show him my affection is be regularly intimate with him (something i do enjoy when it happens).
> 
> 
> why is this so complicated?
> 
> as always there are exceptions on both sides, bad husbands and bad wives and just plain bad people.



Totally agree here. Is it impossible for a woman to be madly in love someone that loves and respects her? Again and again the saying that nice guys finish last pops up.

I cannot change who I am to a worse version of me. I am a positive person. I smile and laugh every single day. I build people up, I do not tear them down. I tell my wife and boys how much I love them, and how proud I am of them.

I listened to my mom and step dad just rip each other to shreds in screaming arguments. I saw first hand what an alcoholic can do to a family. I learned from those mistakes. I made a promise to myself that I would never do that. I would always treat my wife with respect, I would not drink, I would give my kids a family that stays together. If I have to do without having my emotional and physical needs met then so be it. But I think I will always wonder, and feel a little sorry for myself, that I will never be the guy that someone truly wanted for who he is.


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## Atholk

Goodguy said:


> All that said, I am not a typical male. I waited until I was married before I had sex for peats sake. I treat her like a queen. I get up with the kids and let her sleep in, I cook almost every meal, I clean the house, I am the sole provider for the family, I do not lose my temper or even get upset that often. I do it all. And yet, somehow it comes back on me to do even more.


You sound like a pure Beta Male, devoid of Alpha Male qualities when it comes to your wife. You need to find a way to balance the two. I tend not to post her all that much anymore, I'd suggest my blog as a more comprehensive resource for this matter.

In short you are boring her to tears. That's the problem.


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## jessi

hey I'm a wife and I initiate a lot of the time as well, mostly me I think, I get turned down a lot as well, his sex drive doesn't seem to be like mine.....some times it's a problem for me......he just uses his excuses, tired, to hot......early meeting.......
married 22 years always been the same......I thought men were always ready to go..........


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## turnera

Goodguy said:


> Totally agree here. Is it impossible for a woman to be madly in love someone that loves and respects her? Again and again the saying that nice guys finish last pops up.
> 
> I cannot change who I am to a worse version of me. I am a positive person. I smile and laugh every single day. I build people up, I do not tear them down. I tell my wife and boys how much I love them, and how proud I am of them.
> 
> I listened to my mom and step dad just rip each other to shreds in screaming arguments. I saw first hand what an alcoholic can do to a family. I learned from those mistakes. I made a promise to myself that I would never do that. I would always treat my wife with respect, I would not drink, I would give my kids a family that stays together. If I have to do without having my emotional and physical needs met then so be it. But I think I will always wonder, and feel a little sorry for myself, that I will never be the guy that someone truly wanted for who he is.


 No disrespect, but you're not listening to what we said. We said, you are doing TOO MUCH. She lost respect for you because you do TOO MUCH. 

If you want her to respect you, sit down and work out a fair arrangement for BOTH of you to contribute to the household, side by side. Women HATE it when men do everything. They grow to HATE their man for doing it. I'm sure it's something primeval, where the woman had to be valuable in some way in order to get 'saved' from the wild - you are taking away her value by doing all the cooking and cleaning and everything else.

Just try it, ok?

btw, have you done any reading about Adult Children of Alcoholics? You fit into the pattern fairly well. It would probably help you to read up about it and see where you can make changes; it will help you and your marriage.


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## Harvard

initiating intimacy 1 time a week is better than no times a week and not to much to ask in any marriage. We all should do what you gotta do to keep each other happy!


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## Goodguy

turnera said:


> No disrespect, but you're not listening to what we said. We said, you are doing TOO MUCH. She lost respect for you because you do TOO MUCH.
> 
> If you want her to respect you, sit down and work out a fair arrangement for BOTH of you to contribute to the household, side by side. Women HATE it when men do everything. They grow to HATE their man for doing it. I'm sure it's something primeval, where the woman had to be valuable in some way in order to get 'saved' from the wild - you are taking away her value by doing all the cooking and cleaning and everything else.
> 
> Just try it, ok?
> 
> btw, have you done any reading about Adult Children of Alcoholics? You fit into the pattern fairly well. It would probably help you to read up about it and see where you can make changes; it will help you and your marriage.


Adult Child of Alcoholic Screening Quiz 

You answered 15 items out of 20 Yes.

Your score is 75%. Your score indicates that you probably have been profoundly affected by the drinking of someone else. You may benefit greatly from learning more and seeking some outside help.

This does not surprise me, I know it affected me. That is the reason I will never put my kids through it. I also know my parents divorce affected me just as profoundly.

I understand what you are saying about doing too much. I just know that she will not do her part, it simply wont get done. I know because we have tried this to a degree. It winds up being fast food for the kids, and housework that never gets done. She is good at doing the laundry when I ask, and doing the minimums on everything else. That is who she is. One person alone cannot change a relationship. Both people have to put effort into it.

Because I am not willing to leave her and find someone that speaks my love language naturally, I am sol. 

I know it is frustrating talking to me, but I am listening to what you are saying, and I will try your suggestions. I just know what the result will be.

Please dont feel like you have to respond anymore. If nothing else it has been good to get some of this off my shoulders.


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## turnera

Here's what other places say. You choose the household things that mean the most to you. If dirty dishes bugs you, and your wife never notices them, YOU take on the dishes. Do that with all the chores. The things she cares about, she is assigned. There has to be SOMETHING she cares about in the house; she can't be a total slob.

fwiw, she stops doing things because she KNOWS you will do it for her. I had a friend whose younger sister consistently did her chores 'wrong' because she knew their mother would make my friend take over that chore. She ended up doing everything, and the sister laughed at her.

This isn't about what you KNOW she will or won't do. It's about what SHE knows she can get you to do. 

Stop babying her. TELL her things are going to change, and she and you WILL sit down and draw up a chore chart.

Start with her laundry. Shopping for her items. Anything that's hers, you no longer touch.


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## MEM2020

GG,
Are you willing to leave her once the kids have grown/left home?

If not, than be honest about it. At that point it is NOT about the kids, it is about your fear of not finding someone else. 

This question is a big deal - because I do feel leaving while kids are at home does hurt the kids in most cases. But 2 or 3 times during our marriage I flat out asked my wife "do you think I will tolerate this behavior after the kids are gone?"

And she knew I wouldn't - and she stepped up. 





Goodguy said:


> Adult Child of Alcoholic Screening Quiz
> 
> You answered 15 items out of 20 Yes.
> 
> Your score is 75%. Your score indicates that you probably have been profoundly affected by the drinking of someone else. You may benefit greatly from learning more and seeking some outside help.
> 
> This does not surprise me, I know it affected me. That is the reason I will never put my kids through it. I also know my parents divorce affected me just as profoundly.
> 
> I understand what you are saying about doing too much. I just know that she will not do her part, it simply wont get done. I know because we have tried this to a degree. It winds up being fast food for the kids, and housework that never gets done. She is good at doing the laundry when I ask, and doing the minimums on everything else. That is who she is. One person alone cannot change a relationship. Both people have to put effort into it.
> 
> Because I am not willing to leave her and find someone that speaks my love language naturally, I am sol.
> 
> I know it is frustrating talking to me, but I am listening to what you are saying, and I will try your suggestions. I just know what the result will be.
> 
> Please dont feel like you have to respond anymore. If nothing else it has been good to get some of this off my shoulders.


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## danny

Yes. In the early years of our 22 years of marriage I initiated it more than she did but she always initiated it some. In the last five years she has initiated much more than I have and yet almost never turns down my advances either. Sexually I am probably spoiled.


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## cherrypie18

I just don't get it, why are some women so uptight about initiating sex or sex in general? Isn't it just a natural thing to do with your husband?


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## Goodguy

MEM11363 said:


> GG,
> Are you willing to leave her once the kids have grown/left home?
> 
> If not, than be honest about it. At that point it is NOT about the kids, it is about your fear of not finding someone else.
> 
> This question is a big deal - because I do feel leaving while kids are at home does hurt the kids in most cases. But 2 or 3 times during our marriage I flat out asked my wife "do you think I will tolerate this behavior after the kids are gone?"
> 
> And she knew I wouldn't - and she stepped up.


At this point, unless she is unfaithful again, I will never leave. Even after the kids are gone, beside I wont care at that point, I will be 60. 

I had my chance, right after I found out about the affair, I sat in the car and she called me and asked me to come home. I could have said no right then but I really believed that when she realized how close she came to losing me, things would change. The surface of our marriage has changed for the better, but there is nothing that makes me think she feels any differently about me than she did before.

I am not worried I could find someone else, not in this day of interenet match making services.

All this talk about beta male, sort of cracks me up. I mean, I am a leader with friends and at work. Peer pressure was a joke to me growing up. Even with my wife I was once much different. However as she became less interested in me, I started working harder at trying to get her back. More taking care of kids, more house work, more being attentive to her. All the while my weight kept sneaking up. 

When I found out she was unfaithful, I died inside. I am not now, nor will I ever be the same person I was before. It destroyed every single shred of confidence in myself. I doubt if I will ever feel that I am anything but a place holder for her.

I know how she really felt about me, I know she doesnt desire me. I know she will not even do the few things that the marriage counselor and I have asked her to do to help rebuild our marriage. As long as I am faithful to her, she is the only person that can rebuild what she tore apart and she doesnt want to do it.

If I was with a woman that actually did want me and appreciate me. I would be a confidence monster once again.


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## okeydokie

:scratchhead:

i read in this site everyday when it comes to figuring out the female libido:

be attentive to her emotional needs, and, dont be too weak or she wont respect you

help around the house to lift her burden, and, dont do too much where she sees you as too weak

get into her head to find out why she isnt participating in sex, and, women just dont like to open up and keep thing to themselves

be patient, hurry up, slow down, do less, do more. aargghhh


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## turnera

Wow. You'd rather spend the rest of your life with a person who doesn't care if you're even there? Why?


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## swedish

yep okiedokie I think you've got us figured out pretty well now


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## swedish

Goodguy said:


> If I was with a woman that actually did want me and appreciate me. I would be a confidence monster once again.


I understand what you are saying, but geez you've made great strides in your weight loss and I'm sure (unless you had surgery) that there was a lot of hard work involved...I'm just wondering if you are building up any self-confidence on your own, by your accomplishments? My guess is that a side-effect of your own confidence will be your wife finding you attractive...but really, I hope you can figure out a way to get there without her approval/support, just for you!


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## okeydokie

swedish said:


> yep okiedokie I think you've got us figured out pretty well now





that wont ever happen


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## MEM2020

I hope your children don't see you the way you just self portrayed. 
- Not only Beta but Beta in full blown denial
- Totally the victim of your unsupportive wife who had lost her desire for you - did you ever ask her how she felt about your weight - because desire dropping that would be the first thing I would have asked my wife
- Unable to self propel out of this gigantic emotional ditch you are in without the help of your unhelpful wife

Seems like many guys who have been emotionally overpowered in their marriage talk about how alpha they are at work / with friends etc. 




Goodguy said:


> At this point, unless she is unfaithful again, I will never leave. Even after the kids are gone, beside I wont care at that point, I will be 60.
> 
> I had my chance, right after I found out about the affair, I sat in the car and she called me and asked me to come home. I could have said no right then but I really believed that when she realized how close she came to losing me, things would change. The surface of our marriage has changed for the better, but there is nothing that makes me think she feels any differently about me than she did before.
> 
> I am not worried I could find someone else, not in this day of interenet match making services.
> 
> All this talk about beta male, sort of cracks me up. I mean, I am a leader with friends and at work. Peer pressure was a joke to me growing up. Even with my wife I was once much different. However as she became less interested in me, I started working harder at trying to get her back. More taking care of kids, more house work, more being attentive to her. All the while my weight kept sneaking up.
> 
> When I found out she was unfaithful, I died inside. I am not now, nor will I ever be the same person I was before. It destroyed every single shred of confidence in myself. I doubt if I will ever feel that I am anything but a place holder for her.
> 
> I know how she really felt about me, I know she doesnt desire me. I know she will not even do the few things that the marriage counselor and I have asked her to do to help rebuild our marriage. As long as I am faithful to her, she is the only person that can rebuild what she tore apart and she doesnt want to do it.
> 
> If I was with a woman that actually did want me and appreciate me. I would be a confidence monster once again.


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## Trailer_Parker

I almost ALWAYS initiate. If I didn't, I would never get to have sex. My husband claims it's because he's 41 and he just can't keep up...BTW I'm 38...lol...when we do have sex it's great, but I know not to ask for it two nights in a row...I am attractive (I think)...my husband is attracted to me and my body and is very affectionate throughout the day...but he seriously values sleep over sex...oh and beer.


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## Mommybean

I initiate as often as my husband, sometimes more. I'm just not shy about what I want, and even less shy about getting it. And yes, my wants have a lot to do with his pleasure, so it's a win win situation. And he loves my confidence regarding trying new things-he find it an incredible turn on.


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## Goodguy

turnera said:


> Wow. You'd rather spend the rest of your life with a person who doesn't care if you're even there? Why?


Because I made a vow for better or worse, because I do love her, because my children mean more to me than my own personal happiness. I will never willingly put them through divorce.

Like I said, our household is not destructive. I will continue to work at whatever I can to make a difference.

She says she does care by the way and that she loves me and that she wants to grow old with me, but she just does not have much of a sex drive for anyone. Highly doubt that btw, bu I can see where reading this would make it seem like she is a horrible person that does nothing at all. That simply isnt true, every story has two sides. I am just presenting my side of what I find to be a very frustrating situation.

The bottom line is that I want to be wanted. I am married and I am faithful. I have been with one person in my entire life. If that one person, does not find me desirable, how am I ever suppose to fill that particular void? Seriously some examples please.

By reading some of the responses here you would think that it is no big deal. That I am a just suppose to think I am awesome and then I will be awesome. When I submit to you that everyone wants to feel desired by their significant other.

Sometimes the answer is just that it cannot be fixed so I just need to deal with it. That is what I will do.

The whole beta male thing - That would be a waste of time arguing. Granted my relationship with her is messed up but despite what you may think I am happy in every part of my life outside of my relationship with my wife. I am a leader, never have been a follower. Apples and Oranges they are not tied together.

Oh and yes, of course my weight was a turn off to her, she told me that, but losing it has not restored the desire. The only emotional ditch I am in is wanting emotional and physical support from my wife. I do not mope around, I am not that kind of person. I am an optimist by nature, I am a great father, friend and husband. I cant help that my wife doesnt appreciate it. That is her problem.

How do most men feel when they find out their wives have been unfaithful? Do they not feel like victims? I only feel like a victim because I cant leave. If this had happened 7 years ago before we had our kids, it wouldnt even be an issue, I am sure I would be well into my second marriage by now.


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## okeydokie

Goodguy said:


> How do most men feel when they find out their wives have been unfaithful? Do they not feel like victims? I only feel like a victim because I cant leave. If this had happened 7 years ago before we had our kids, it wouldnt even be an issue, I am sure I would be well into my second marriage by now.


haven't had that issue, that i know of and i really dont believe my wife has been unfaithful. we are the type of couple that basically knows where each other is at all times.

however, if it had happened, i would be most unhappy and likely would leave, no doubt about it (i have kids but that wouldn't matter). and i would expect my wife to leave if i had been unfaithful. that just doesnt cut it with me.


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## turnera

Did I ever suggest going to marriagebuilders.com and using the Love Buster and Emotional Needs questionnaires? I have seen a LOT of marriages turn 180 degrees from exactly where you are - wife simply doesn't desire the husband, etc. - into two people suddenly in love with each other again and eager to explore ALL aspects of their life, together. 

Plus, you could do their phone counseling. In all the people I've seen use their phone counseling - by the founder, who's been counseling couples dealing with infidelity for 30 years, and developed his program from it - only ONE couple didn't prosper immensely after it (and that was because the guy was a certified jerk); and some couples who were already signing divorce papers turned their marriage around completely. What have you got to lose?

As for your question about how to fill the void, if my above advice doesn't work, you fill the void by meeting and marrying a woman who DOES desire you.

I get the not divorcing part. I waited til DD19 graduated high school so I wouldn't upset her before considering leaving, or telling my H. But kids fare a lot differently, after they graduate, if you divorce. Because they are adults, and process such things more logically; they start to see you two as real people, not just parents. They are much more likely to understand and even support your need for happiness. But it's up to you, what you want to spend your whole life on. 

Personally, I think the two of you need to be in serious counseling, where you DO learn to stand up for yourself, and ask her if she is willing to be more about you than just yourself. That's what marriage is.


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## cb45

_to all:
its easier to generalize, but our mates are diff human beings
w/ some things alike and some diff.

if u have a relationship where both can sit down & communicate effectively
despite the subject(s) and their complexities it seems to me that u r 
way ahead of the usual marr'd couple here n abroad, say 1% ????

also the penchant for self sacrifice is not so common today
as i believe it may have been in yrs/decades/centuries past.

my 2 cents............cb45_


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## cb45

sorry 2 generalize but,

women dont often really know what they want.
sure they say this/that, but my life experience has shown
rare is the dame who clearly knows or can clearly state 4 
that matter, what indeed will be the "fix" 4 yer relationship.

also,

marr'd life is like being on a hobie-cat (google it, son),
if u have to lean over portside to balance/turn dont be
surprised to see yer mate (if not trained) leaning over
the starboard side. when u should both be on one side.

cant tell ya how many times this happens daily all over the world.

so spare us the "i do everything" stuff. worst thing 2 do.

cb45


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## citizen56

I've been married before. My first wife (of 13 years) decided she was gay, divorced me and married her long time business partner (a woman). My 2nd wife wanted sex all the time, but she was a nutjob. Seriously. She threw out all my stuff from before our marriage including family pictures, clothes and kitchen stuff. I've since learned from other Koreans that this is normal for a Korean woman. But it seemed so crazy at the time. I couldn't take her bizarre behavior and divorced her. My 3rd wife and I used to have sex all the time. In fact, the first 5 years we were married, she seemed to love it. Sometimes twice or 3 times in one day. Then she got pregnant and stopped initiating it. She said Korean women believe it's not good to have sex while pregnant. I said ok. After the baby was born she said she was too tired, or in pain or this or that reason. We've had sex maybe 5 times in the last 7 months. And she only initiated it one time. But she never gets on top and just lies there. She doesn't move and doesn't seem interested at all.

The latest weirdness was when she had our son in bed with us. He's just a baby, but she said we could have sex with him there. I just couldn't do it with the baby looking at me like that. Seems pretty ****ed up to me.

Sorry for the language.


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## dan681

Cheating spouses SUCK!!!! My wife admitted her infidelity to me several months ago. I was crushed, to say the least. But after some counseling and some ultimatums, she has started to come back to me. She doesn't initiate sex much, but at least she doesn't reject my advances. We have been having more passionate sex as of late. I don't know if it is make up sex?? But I'm not complaining.


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## skoloco

your not alone my friend.....


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## Hummingburd

I know that I mainly initiate and have for 11 yrs!!, it is nice to have that reciprocated. Kinda odd I suppose that my husband does not most of the time, he just says that he likes that I always do and take control. Although I do feel like I am always attacking him!! Thats just my way . Maybe your wife just does not know how or feels uncomfortable finding an approach. But when you love someone it's hard to go wrong because once you initiate you both end up winning!


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## turnera

Here's how it goes in my house. My DH knows I'm not that crazy about sex. So he has learned what it takes, over the years, to get me in the mood.

He has to start off slowly, by massaging my arms or legs, so that I get something out of it, and get relaxed. If he moves too fast to 'that' area, I automatically swat him away. It's a reflex from my younger years, bad sex and all. So he has to move slowly. He had to find his approach, as hummingburd says.

On the other hand, I don't want it as often as him, so half the time, I will just take care of him manually. So finding a fair balance is important, too.


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## cb45

give up the bul go ki, and the gal bi. why else 2 koreans in row?


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## Backedup

My wife NEVER initiates it. I also requested the same thing because it lets ME know that she wants me and not just me wanting her.


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## BREAKER29

7 years of marriage, my wife only initiated about 5 times, I always, do, but decided not any more, because , she learned to turn me down, and this is killing the love I have for her.


----------



## turnera

Find out WHY. Talk to her about it.


----------



## hopelessly_devoted

hmmm... now that you mention it my husband has broughten up the fact that i never initiate a couple times to me. but i just love when he initiates it. i like being dominated! i didnt think it really could bother him but now that im seeing all these responses.... i guess ill have to start!


----------



## CLucas976

I'm a horny little girl when I'm not suffering from some sort of female related problem or pain and am not stressed or miserable.

I have no problem jumping on him when the mood strikes...


----------



## Crypsys

hopelessly_devoted said:


> i like being dominated!


Have you told him that? 

I know at times I do sometimes wish mine would initiate. But, for her being dominated is very important, so I've learned to accept that for her to really enjoy it, I do have to take control.


----------



## cb45

if she'll honestly do this..................



YouTube - Sixpence None The Richer - Kiss Me (She's All That official music video)




then anythings possible! :awink:


----------



## Blue Moon

Wife didn't for the longest. In actuality, the sex had tapered off for a good period of time. But I wised up and did what I needed to do to create sexual tension, give her space and changed my attitude/approach. It worked wonders.

She initiates all the time now. We were on vacation last week and she was all over me and still has been since we got back home. At one point on the vacation we got back to the room and she simply said "Condom yourself..." lol. No complaints here!

Everybody's different, but if you get your wife into sex enough she'll initiate sometimes, Still, don't underestimate the need for you to be the man and take control.


----------



## MarriedWifeInLove

I intiate all the time and get rejected all the time. 

Go figure.


----------



## SadSamIAm

johnnyburst79 said:


> My wife initiates most of it, but I'll well concede I am at fault for it. In addition to work, I also teach on weekends and perform on weekends sometimes two nights a week. She usually initiates 2-3 times a week if I don't.
> 
> My performances are stopping for the next month or so as my equipment is going in for repair and I have vowed to be more available to her emotionally and physically.


So you can quit your performances for equipment repair, but you can't stop them for your wife. I would be pissed if I was your wife. She should come first.


----------



## tinyturt

Hi all. First post here.

My wife never initates. Recently though that changed when we were both home alone during the day. I asked her to put on some lingerie and then come out grab me by the hand and take me to our room and attack me. She did and it was great for the both of us. Me more than her but I know she enjoyed herself too. I asked her to remove my clothes and she did and that really turned me on. We ended up making passionate love which is somewhat unusal since she's lost most of her desire due to menopause.

Tinyturt...


----------



## funfun

I'm sorry for your situation. I am usually the one getting rejected, but that said my BF is willing to give me about 3 times a week. Being rejected sucks. It really hurts emotionally and has long lasting effects. My thoughts for you would be to try to prevent having those feelings by manipulating the situation a bit. I would try to cuddle her and kiss her neck in bed at night. If she swats you away tell her you would just like to hold her and that you're not trying to make more happen. and do that. dont' try to do more with her. restore the intimacy without expecting more. Keep doing this in bed to try to restore her feeling like you're not just gonna try to get in her pants. Maybe over time she'll be the one to get a little aroused and want it. I think you have to make her want it. You can also remind her that you would like to please HER. Maybe if it stops becoming so much about your needs and your feelings of rejection and YOU not getting what YOU want and more about HER getting something that could make her feel so good, she'll come around. You should try reminding her how much you like to l**k her p**** and how much you want to please her and how much she used to like c**ing on your tongue,etc and see if those memories spark a new interest in her. I would say focus less you you and you may just get what you're looking for as a by-product. Don't get pissed off when she rejects you cause that's a cycle that's not good for anyone. Take it slow and remind her of good times in bed. Maybe also take matters into your own hands and let her know that you are. This way she might stop seeing you as something pathetic and start seeing you as someone who gets what they want. or she may feel a little jealous. i know i always do when i'm not getting enough action and i know he's been masturbating, i feel like --- hey get over here and give it to me. that's a recipe for initiating for me. and i usually tell him if he can't take care of me he's not allowed to go off and take care of himself. so get over here and take the punishment i see fit. ;-)

but i have a higher sex drive than he does. that said we're pretty well matched. he'd be happy at twice a week and a bj. i'd be happy at 4 times a week. but that's not a bad match really! and it's always hot.

good luck!!!


----------



## L.M.COYL

My wife mentions it about 3 times a year.

It sucks.

I always initiate it.


----------



## copperfiend

Maybe after a few drinks. Usually not though.


----------



## JayFromSoCal

mygirls2 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> And I know now, to keep him happy it really doesn't take much...just attention and some sex )
> Anyways,
> That's all I've got for now. Good luck guys!


Hello there. those are the golden mysteries of a simple man like myself. I just need a little attention maybe 20 min max per day and "some sex" 1-2x per week is enough to keep me sain and at ease! i wish my wife knew this...


----------



## cloud

nope........I have to do all the running


----------



## mattphx

I have had an issue with my wife not initiating sex since day one. Over the 5yrs we have been marrried it has become a little better. I have tried alot of things, distance, pressure, etc etc. Putting pressure on her had the worst outcome of them all, it just pushed her further away and made her feel uncomfortable. We are nowhere where we need to be and I know I have issues in our relationship that need working on as well. I believe if my wife really really understood the power of her sexual actions I could concour the world.


----------



## greenpearl

Men normally have high sex drive, so very often you feel horny, but a lot of women don't. 

One day this suddenly came to my mind, I asked my husband: How come a lot of men on TAM keep on mentioning that their wives don't initiate? we are on the opposite, I initiate most of the times??? 

My husband laughed: "hey, between two of us, who wants sex more often?" I realized that I want more sex than he does, so of course it is me who usually says: Come, I want to climb on top of you!

Just something from a woman's point of view, a woman whose sexual desire is like man's.


----------



## Mom6547

Macca86 said:


> I made some remark a few weeks back as to how we rarely have sex - to which she got upset and told me that she watned sex and I didnt blah blah blah (to her just being naked is the signal?) to which I said that she never makes me feel like I want to do it in the first place.


What IS the signal? I never know what to DO. I feel foolish sometimes. If it is a weekend, plenty of time or whatever, I might dress up and/or do a strip tease. But even that feels foolish sometimes. And if he is not in the mood... it can be quite a blow.

But the thing is... EVERY time he initiates, he runs the risk of being shut down. So why should HE risk it all the time? Once I had that realization, I was able to initiate more often.


----------



## marriedguy

greenpearl said:


> Just something from a woman's point of view, a woman whose sexual desire is like man's.


What?? How can this be?!?!?


----------



## lostinlife

I want it all the time - just not the way he likes to give it. but i take it anyway cause its better than nothing or myself  so yes i do!


----------



## greenpearl

marriedguy said:


> What?? How can this be?!?!?


Surprised?!

I am blessed with a horny body! 

I started to enjoy sex when I was 18, and I have never stopped enjoying sex and orgasms. 

If I can keep this going on.................

I am really a lucky woman!!!


----------



## Golfer216

My wife of 16 years rarely initiates sex. The only time my wife ever wanted sex more than me was when she was pregnant with our first child & her hormones went all crazy. ;-) 

I've read a few posts by women here saying they want it more than their husband does & I have to say that sounds like some other planet. It definitely hasn't been my experience.

I think my wife is like a many of the women who post here. They worry about 30 different things all the time, run around all day like chicken's with their heads cut off, & don't have the greatest self image, espcially physically. So when everything settles down at the end of the day, they are either too tired for sex or see sex as "just one more thing someone wants from me".


----------



## greenpearl

My husband always tells me that I am different from a lot of women. 

He is blessed by having me.


----------



## escravo215

I've been married for 8 years, and nope. No initiating, no talking about it, nothing. It's like she has a "wheel of excuses" in her head (I'm tired, I worked all day, I have my period, etc). And when we did I had to wait until CSI or Law & Order. Once she said just do it while I sleep (yeah that's appealing) so I just got tired stopped asking. That was a year and a half ago. If I didin't work in a gym, I'd probably would have gone crazy. But the funny thing is, I bought a fleshlight to kinda scratch that itch if it ever arose, and she got mad. So now i'm in a quandry.


----------



## RandomDude

greenpearl said:


> My husband always tells me that I am different from a lot of women.
> He is blessed by having me.


Sheez, the missus is just like you and I complain about it. :rofl:


----------



## greenpearl

RandomDude said:


> Sheez, the missus is just like you and I complain about it. :rofl:


What do you mean? Do you mean your wife is horny all the time and you get to have a lot of sex? 

Then you really should stop complaining in this area!


----------



## lime

This thread is one example of conflicting expectations men might have for women and vice versa...I feel like a lot of men out there want to be the one "in charge" in the relationship, the one making the decisions, the head of the family. They want their wives to respect them, find them attractive, and enjoy/show interest in sex with them. Unfortunately, wanting/wishing/hoping that the wife will initiate sex goes against this "dominant" mentality that many men have. Women often find confidence attractive, and asking your wife to initiate sex does not appear confident in most cases; it makes you look insecure. I get that it's important to men and women to feel desired, but unfortunately you have to be careful how you "ask" because it could appear as a sign of weakness. I also think it's in our nature for the man to be the pursuer/initiator and the woman to be the one who wants to be romanced. 

I understand that most of the male posters here are just wishing that their wives would show some (or any!) interest in sex and initiate occasionally. I think this is a totally reasonable request, but I just wanted to remind people that women enjoy being pursued most of the time. I don't know that it should be a 50/50 thing, but it could be different for other relationships. Personally I enjoy initiating maybe once per week, the other times my SO does...I like it when he initiates because it makes me feel wanted and desired, and it makes me feel like he's the dominant one. I respect him more and find him more attractive.


----------



## Mrs.LonelyGal

lime said:


> This thread is one example of conflicting expectations men might have for women and vice versa...I feel like a lot of men out there want to be the one "in charge" in the relationship, the one making the decisions, the head of the family. They want their wives to respect them, find them attractive, and enjoy/show interest in sex with them. Unfortunately, wanting/wishing/hoping that the wife will initiate sex goes against this "dominant" mentality that many men have. Women often find confidence attractive, and asking your wife to initiate sex does not appear confident in most cases; it makes you look insecure. I get that it's important to men and women to feel desired, but unfortunately you have to be careful how you "ask" because it could appear as a sign of weakness. I also think it's in our nature for the man to be the pursuer/initiator and the woman to be the one who wants to be romanced.
> 
> I understand that most of the male posters here are just wishing that their wives would show some (or any!) interest in sex and initiate occasionally. I think this is a totally reasonable request, but I just wanted to remind people that women enjoy being pursued most of the time. I don't know that it should be a 50/50 thing, but it could be different for other relationships. Personally I enjoy initiating maybe once per week, the other times my SO does...I like it when he initiates because it makes me feel wanted and desired, and it makes me feel like he's the dominant one. I respect him more and find him more attractive.



Yes! Exactly!:iagree:


I am trying to initiate more... but it just feels sort of awkward.

Also... and I am not sure other women feel this way, or not... but it is hard for me to figure out to do w/ a flaccid penis.
:scratchhead:
If it is hard and coming right at me, I know exactly what to do next.
:smthumbup:
I mean if it doesn't stand up at attention after a little kissing and touching, I am not sure what to do next. I know it is my job to get it to stand at attention, but it seems like it used to be effortless, and now we are both a little older and have been together for a long time, and when it doesn't happen right away I can't help but feel that he isn't attracted to me anymore and that makes me afraid of rejection and less apt to try again.


----------



## RandomDude

^ You shouldn't really need to initiate either then teasing and flirting in my opinion =/

If you get frustrated you can of course rape him and he'll start complaining but everyone will still accuse him of 'not being a man' because it's apparently impossible for a husband to be raped lol
Hell everything is so one-sided in this world.


----------



## Mrs.LonelyGal

Ha. When my husband was 26 it stood up on it's own if there was a stiff breeze. At 34 it takes a little more effort.
And how would you "rape" a flaccid penis, anyway? LOL


----------



## RandomDude

And 34 is only 8 years away for me lol

Ne ways the way she does it I can't be flaccid, but the way she does it still makes me feel raped, like my body is just some sex machine and my mind/soul/desires/feelings don't mean a thing.


----------



## janesmith

Mrs.LonelyGal said:


> Yes! Exactly!:iagree:
> 
> 
> I am trying to initiate more... but it just feels sort of awkward.
> 
> Also... and I am not sure other women feel this way, or not... but it is hard for me to figure out to do w/ a flaccid penis.
> :scratchhead:
> If it is hard and coming right at me, I know exactly what to do next.
> :smthumbup:
> I mean if it doesn't stand up at attention after a little kissing and touching, I am not sure what to do next. I know it is my job to get it to stand at attention, but it seems like it used to be effortless, and now we are both a little older and have been together for a long time, and when it doesn't happen right away I can't help but feel that he isn't attracted to me anymore and that makes me afraid of rejection and less apt to try again.


You just standing there naked is not gonna do it sister. You have to touch him, caress him, rub yourself on him. slid your legs inbetween his, kiss him, lick his ears, bite his neck, play with is nipples, rub his balls, lick his ****, lick his balls, suck his fingers, suck on his lips, lick his lips, rake his ass with your nails, talk dirty to him, rub ur pu$$y against his hip, moan in his ear, let him watch you touch youself, watch him jack off AND lick his balls at the same time.


use ur imagination, read some good erotica, learn how to turn that man on. Ask him to direct you and tell you want to do, ask your friends, get interested in WHAT makes his [email protected] hard, studying, watch it, listen to his moans when you touch it or do certain things to it, listen to the sounds and watch the move his body makes. Pay attention to him.


----------



## justmad

i am a 27 year old wife been together for 10 and married for 5.
i must admit i initiate sex ALL THE TIME very seldom does he.
and quite alot of the times he says no i suppose he just can't keep up with my drive for it.
even after the birth of our children it has always been me and i try to get it atleast once a day if not more.


----------



## Blue Moon

janesmith said:


> You just standing there naked is not gonna do it sister. You have to touch him, caress him, rub yourself on him. slid your legs inbetween his, kiss him, lick his ears, bite his neck, play with is nipples, rub his balls, lick his ****, lick his balls, suck his fingers, suck on his lips, lick his lips, rake his ass with your nails, talk dirty to him, rub ur pu$$y against his hip, moan in his ear, let him watch you touch youself, watch him jack off AND lick his balls at the same time.
> 
> 
> use ur imagination, read some good erotica, learn how to turn that man on. Ask him to direct you and tell you want to do, ask your friends, get interested in WHAT makes his [email protected] hard, studying, watch it, listen to his moans when you touch it or do certain things to it, listen to the sounds and watch the move his body makes. Pay attention to him.



:smthumbup:

Cosign to the fullest. Embrace your nasty side and go with it.


----------



## Mrs.LonelyGal

Well, I got rejected last night. So much for the candles I lit, the nice new sheets and pretty neglige' I bought. What a waste.
Spent the better part of the night crying. It hurts to be rejected- especially when you put forth a grand effort.
"Honey, I don't mean to hurt your feelings, I am just not in the mood"

BS. he knew I tried to make it romantic and special. I showered and shaved and lotion and perfumed before bedtime. I lit the candles and said come hither, for nothing!
I feel like such a fool. I feel like I shouldn't have to go through so much trouble to get laid. I am attractive and good in bed, and married. WTF?
Its funny, and I somewhat resent the fact that I always seem to "get in the mood" when he wants to have sex, and I am vilified and punished by his excessive use of pornography if I am too tired or stressed or sick to make love.
I am not going to to beg for it, ever again.
So what should I just be ready and willing if he wants to do it tonight? 
Part of me wants to punish him, even though I know that is wrong.

What is worse is that he probably won't even try...


----------



## Blue Moon

Does your husband masturbate much?


----------



## Mrs.LonelyGal

Well, I am not sure anymore. I know he used to- a lot. This is back when we were at a really bad stage in our marriage.
He was supposed to stop looking at porn at my request, because of this.

We have been traveling over the holidays so, I am not sure when he would have had an opportunity to.


----------



## SoCalMark

IF my wife initiates sex it's no warm-up session with hugging, kissing and touches... she usually just goes for the gold to get the captain at attention. Although some guys would prefer this, I like a more gradual approach to the whole thing. I have asked her before but I guess she forgot somewhere along the line -- or she isn't interested.


----------



## MEM2020

At 27 - when we met - my W could do a zero foreplay approach and I was totally fine with it. But back then - I could get hard in about 10 seconds. 

At 48 I dislike the direct approach and NEED foreplay.



SoCalMark said:


> IF my wife initiates sex it's no warm-up session with hugging, kissing and touches... she usually just goes for the gold to get the captain at attention. Although some guys would prefer this, I like a more gradual approach to the whole thing. I have asked her before but I guess she forgot somewhere along the line -- or she isn't interested.


----------



## LSU Fan

I have to say my DW rarely initiates sex, but she does know how I feel about it and how much I want it. We are a chrisitian couple and about 3 months ago we decided that we would have a "Never say NO" agreement(kinda of biblical basis). I think at first she thought sex would become "mechanical" but to the surprise of both of, it has made things wonderful !! It relieves all of the tension. She is not worried about if she should say yes just to make me happy if she is not in the mood or worried if she says no that I will be mad or hurt. And I think some of it for men is basic human nature, 'We want what someone says we can't have'. It takes the "victory" out of sex and therefore it can be a more mutually enjoyable experience. This is all based on a Loving relationship and mutual feelings and understanding. That being said....
For Christmas my wife gave me..........wait for it......
The 12 Lays of Chrsitmas.:smthumbup::smthumbup:
:toast:
Love, Actually: The 12 Lays of Christmas
We are on day 6...Oh Yeah 6 more to go
By the way, I am glad I found this forum...
Happy New Year, All


----------



## Blue Moon

MEM11363 said:


> At 27 - when we met - my W could do a zero foreplay approach and I was totally fine with it. But back then - I could get hard in about 10 seconds.
> 
> At 48 I dislike the direct approach and NEED foreplay.


Yeah, I guess things change as you get older. I'm still at the point where I go from 0 to 60 in .5 seconds.


----------



## Clarence Rutherford

LSU Fan said:


> I have to say my DW rarely initiates sex, but she does know how I feel about it and how much I want it. We are a chrisitian couple and about 3 months ago we decided that we would have a "Never say NO" agreement(kinda of biblical basis). I think at first she thought sex would become "mechanical" but to the surprise of both of, it has made things wonderful !! It relieves all of the tension. She is not worried about if she should say yes just to make me happy if she is not in the mood or worried if she says no that I will be mad or hurt. And I think some of it for men is basic human nature, 'We want what someone says we can't have'. It takes the "victory" out of sex and therefore it can be a more mutually enjoyable experience. This is all based on a Loving relationship and mutual feelings and understanding. That being said....
> For Christmas my wife gave me..........wait for it......
> The 12 Lays of Chrsitmas.:smthumbup::smthumbup:
> :toast:
> Love, Actually: The 12 Lays of Christmas
> We are on day 6...Oh Yeah 6 more to go
> By the way, I am glad I found this forum...
> Happy New Year, All


LSU,
Can you go more into this "Never say no" agreement and how you worked it out?
Your description isn't that clear.
Thanks.


----------



## Clarence Rutherford

On the original question, my wife rarely initiates.

Years ago while on vacation, I came to find to find her naked under the sheets. That was great initiating and saw that as a green light....

Come to think of it, I came to bed recently and she was sans clothing... so maybe she is starting to initiate more.


----------



## credamdóchasgra

Each of us initiates an equal amount of the time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## coops

For probably 5 years she initiated maybe once. Now she initiates multiple times a week.


----------



## Runs like Dog

In 31 years, never. Not once. In fact I'd have to say based on the complete lack of sex since Clinton was President, we're probably done for good. I just got fed up with having a second job. I already have a job and doing this just made me feel like I was being a demanding abusive jerk. In the ensuing years, she comes to bed in sweatpants, t-shirt, hoodie and socks and if I so much as stroke her back she complains. But to be fair we had a serious conversation about this years ago and she told me point blank that 'I'm the girl and this is all you the man's job, 100%'. But I've got say that none of this should amaze me in retrospect since apart from intentionally conceiving children, we'd had sex maybe 30 times in 31 years of marriage. If I were deeply cynical, which of course I'm not, I'd say that women use sex to get love or something else and men use love or something else, to get sex. It's just a transaction.


----------



## Noah2003

Yes she does...im always "READY" so I usually let her,let me know when she is. Seems to work, I hate that feeling that she doing it for me...so i wait, usually not too long


----------



## madimoff

kendall2 said:


> My wife initiates more than me. We average 3 times a week and she probalbly initiates it 2 of those times. Definetly helps if you complement her during the day. Women are like cruise ships and men are speedboats. They take a long time to turn around so get them thinking about sex hours before bedtime by flirting, kissing, touching. etc


Haven't read whole thread but BRILLIANT!!!!


----------



## unbelievable

Runs, you don't have to be cynical to come to that conclusion. You just have to be able to add two and two. You wouldn't be the first guy to get trapped by a woman looking for security. I've never seen a reality show entitled, "Who wants to marry a really nice poor guy?". Sex for security is the oldest transaction in the history of mankind. If I applied for the position of jockey but once hired, showed no interest in horses and refused to ride more than once every year, it wouldn't take a genius to figure out I'd been a fraud all along.


----------



## tatted

Wife never initiates sex so we dont have it very often. I think every once in a while she feels bad that were not so she will give in when I try. 14 years of marriage and this is what I get how nice. Truth is I do not care anymore because when I do try she says no at first then gets mad that I stop trying. Reason I stop is numberous times she has told me that If she turns me down she feels bad about it and cant sleep so I just do not try. Most of the time I would rather go down stairs and find some internet porn than to try and get the wife going.


----------



## [email protected]

cherrypie18 said:


> I've said this before and I'll say it again, I never thought men could say no to sex until I got married lol
> 
> My guess they say no because they either get off to porn before we initiate or there's someone else.


I've said no to my wife before and I think they are valid reasons:

1. Have to go to work early and it 3AM
2. I'm feel betrayed.
3. I'm tried (sounds like number 1, it different in the sense that i may not be tried but am trying not fall asleep at work)


----------



## [email protected]

My wife has initiated Sex but says it not as good as when I initiate. I feel the opposite, because when she initiates it because she is hungry.


----------



## Kitten77

I've tried to spice things up lately... I've ended up with my feelings hurt. I almost have to assume it's what some women are afraid of. 

I tried sending naughty texts, that put him 'in a bad position' cause he was a whole 4 houses down and there was 20 minutes before the OSU game started. Then there was the time 'the dog is right here'. We were on the couch and the damn dog is 13, blind and deaf! When I looked at him like, are you serious right now? He yelled at me, what? you want to go into the bedroom. Not now, idiot. Now I want to cry thank you very much. 

I honestly don't think my husband can handle me being sexually agressive. It seems to really bother him and he turns into an uptight old man that avoids the whole situation. He's 33 so I don't get it.


----------



## Clarence Rutherford

tatted said:


> Most of the time I would rather go down stairs and find some internet porn than to try and get the wife going.


That's not a good habit, tatted. As a former and recovering porn user, I can't say I haven't done that.
But now realize I focused more of my energy on viewing porn when I could have been investing more time with her.



Kitten77 said:


> I honestly don't think my husband can handle me being sexually agressive. *It seems to really bother him and he turns into an uptight old man that avoids the whole situation. He's 33 so I don't get it.*


Am sorry to hear that. 

_Will tell you this: _I wouldn't have responded like your hubby.
I for one would love it if my wife initiated, even just once in a while.

She has "helped" the mood several times (not as much as I'd like though). I've come to bed from the bathroom in the hotel and found her absolutely naked....
Yes, she let me have my way with her...

She was all over me on the couch once.
At times, during cuddling, she won't deflect me if I start groping her "too early..." That's usually a good sign.


----------



## Clarence Rutherford

*Bringing your guy to arousal...*



> Originally Posted by *Mrs.LonelyGal*  _
> Also... and I am not sure other women feel this way, or not... but* it is hard for me to figure out to do w/ a flaccid penis.*
> 
> If it is hard and coming right at me, I know exactly what to do next.
> 
> I mean if it doesn't stand up at attention after a little kissing and touching, I am not sure what to do next.
> 
> *I know it is my job to get it to stand at attention, but it seems like it used to be effortless,* and now we are both a little older and have been together for a long time, and *when it doesn't happen right away I can't help but feel that he isn't attracted to me *anymore and that makes me afraid of rejection and less apt to try again._


 Maybe I'm ignorant here, but when did it become the wife's responsibility to get her man aroused?

I _*never *_have any problem "standing at attention" when I'm with my wife.....
We're not young either. Me 49... she 52....

She has "helped" -- and brought me back -- when I ended too soon... (thank goodness, was embarrassed).



> Originally Posted by *janesmith*
> You just standing there naked is not gonna do it sister. You have to touch him, caress him, rub yourself on him. slid your legs inbetween his, kiss him, lick his ears, bite his neck, play with is nipples, rub his balls, lick his ****, lick his balls, suck his fingers, suck on his lips, lick his lips, rake his ass with your nails, talk dirty to him, rub ur pu$$y against his hip, moan in his ear, let him watch you touch youself, watch him jack off AND lick his balls at the same time.





Mrs.LonelyGal said:


> Well, I got rejected last night. So much for the candles I lit, the nice new sheets and pretty neglige' I bought. What a waste.
> Spent the better part of the night crying. It hurts to be rejected- especially when you put forth a grand effort.
> "Honey, I don't mean to hurt your feelings, I am just not in the mood"
> 
> BS. he knew I tried to make it romantic and special.


LonelyGal,
Did you do any of the things Janesmith recommended?
I know it would be hard for me to not want to ML with my wife if she did some of those things. 

But then again... I'm never "not in the mood..."


----------



## miserableinlove_35

kendall2 said:


> My wife initiates more than me. We average 3 times a week and she probalbly initiates it 2 of those times. Definetly helps if you complement her during the day. Women are like cruise ships and men are speedboats. They take a long time to turn around so get them thinking about sex hours before bedtime by flirting, kissing, touching. etc


 If I started flirting and all that hours before then the only person that will be thinking about sex at bedtime is me. I'd take a shower before bed because I like to feel clean for her and by the time I crawled into bed next to her she would be snoring up a storm. You are a lucky man if you have a woman that wants sex enjoy it and her for as long as you can.


----------



## RandomDude

> Women are like cruise ships and men are speedboats. They take a long time to turn around so get them thinking about sex hours before


If that was true that would mean the missus is thinking about sex 24/7...


----------



## Helicon

My wife used to intiate sex, until we both hit around 35. We're now 46 & 47. She hasn't initiated sex once since then. It doesn't matter anyway because I got so tired of her turning me down and me belittling myself hearing her complain when I asked that I finally gave up asking altogether. She's also gained a lot of weight which is another reason I gave up. I find both her personality and her appearance physically repulsive. I've been sleeping on the couch for the last 6 months which is just fine with both of us. Nice life huh?


----------



## Helicon

cody5 said:


> I don't understand men turning down sex. Doesn't compute.


I guess it depends on if your wife transforms herself into something you find completely undesirable.


----------



## daison

our sex life was really slow for a lonnnnggg time. I subscribed to the whole "it's the man's job to initiate" philosophy and obviously it wasn't working for me. I realize now that if I want to get what I want in the bedroom I have to stop depending on him to feed my insecurities and get over them. In the beginning I got rejected often enough. I did the whole laying in bed with lingerie on. But then just cuddled up as I would if I went to bed in my sweats. No real excitement there.

So I started stepping outside of my comfort zone. He still rarely initiates, but he rarely turns me down either and I'm ok with that. I'm 6 months pregnant now with our second kid and our sex life has never been better (against all odds ).

You'll get out of it what you put into it. Put on the lingerie, but instead of just laying in bed with it on, or even just making sure he sees it, get into bed and make it clear what you want. Even saying, hey..."i'm super horny. please?" (play your cute card loL!) is better than nothing


----------



## s0medude

mike1 said:


> I rarely try to initiate because 95% of the time I get turned down. Pretty much I just have to wait until she decides to initiates.


This is the exact thing I've been experiencing for the last two years. If I try to go after it I almost always get turned down, if I don't ever go after it nothing ever happens.


----------



## FeliceDunas

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----------



## Clarence Rutherford

Never.

She has never initiated.

She has, as I posted, come to bed absolutely naked, which gave me a Green Light. She's done some other things, but it seems it's the man's role to initiate. Which is fine as I'm always wanting it...


----------



## Runs like Dog

Wifey told me point blank "it's your job". I can't believe I married such an idiot child.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Syrum

Ingelical said:


> LOL at chicks who think it's a man's job to initiate. Sad to be so insecure with yourself.


it's not about being insecure. It's about social conditioning.

Many women find more aggressive men in bed very attractive, and I am one of them. 

Also many women initiate in small ways, by wearing something different or gently prodding in that direction.

I do initiate by wearing something sexy or something like that. Sometimes I will make it clear that I want him and just start giving him a BJ or something. He said he likes it when I do that sometimes, but I don't think he would like it all the time and neither would I.


----------



## Runs like Dog

It's like the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, when the earth gets blown up for an interstellar highway and they note they put up a public notice on Alpha Centauri like 3 million years ago. You should have read that.....etc.


----------



## Syrum

Runs like Dog said:


> It's like the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, when the earth gets blown up for an interstellar highway and they note they put up a public notice on Alpha Centauri like 3 million years ago. You should have read that.....etc.


I don't know about that, because he doesn't have to look for signs to catch me in the mood. Even when I'm not in the mood, I am open to getting in the mood. I have also *never* rejected him, so I don't think he has it so bad.


----------



## Runs like Dog

All I can say is that I mentioned to my wife this week that after swimming against the tide for so long, I am done with worrying about when or if she has any interest in sex. I told her I am finished with the sex 'thing' forever and she needn't worry about when or if I'm going to beg or ask or anything. We are done with any physical relations forever. She's had less than zero interest for decades and if she's waiting for me to be thrilled to do literally 100% of the work 100% of time, she can forget it. She's been shopping for a replacement bed I told her if it's cheaper to get two twins, get two twins. I threw out all the lubes and such which were just collecting dust. I have no interest in looking at her, kissing her, holding her hand, nothing, and since it's like hugging a rock, so what? Done talking about it, done turning it over in my mind, done. Her reaction was nothing at all. No feedback, like she didn't hear it. Then the phone rang and she had one of her silly 100 decibel chitchats with one of her equally stupid friends about who hates men more.


----------



## Conrad

Runs like Dog said:


> All I can say is that I mentioned to my wife this week that after swimming against the tide for so long, I am done with worrying about when or if she has any interest in sex. I told her I am finished with the sex 'thing' forever and she needn't worry about when or if I'm going to beg or ask or anything. We are done with any physical relations forever. She's had less than zero interest for decades and if she's waiting for me to be thrilled to do literally 100% of the work 100% of time, she can forget it. She's been shopping for a replacement bed I told her if it's cheaper to get two twins, get two twins. I threw out all the lubes and such which were just collecting dust. I have no interest in looking at her, kissing her, holding her hand, nothing, and since it's like hugging a rock, so what? Done talking about it, done turning it over in my mind, done. Her reaction was nothing at all. No feedback, like she didn't hear it. Then the phone rang and she had one of her silly 100 decibel chitchats with one of her equally stupid friends about who hates men more.


She had to win that encounter, didn't she?


----------



## Runs like Dog

Don't know, don't care. Getting closer to the big kiss off. Some people are mean because they're angry. Other people are mean because they're evil. And still others are mean because they come from a place bereft of human emotions altogether. Our Benevolent Insect Overlords.


----------



## Gemini79

Goodguy said:


> I have told my wife I am ready to go anytime. I can have a fever, be asleep, heck if I get shot and can be stablized, I am good to go. I dont want there to ever be a time where she felt like it and I missed it. Of course, in 18 years of marriage, she rarely wants to. And I am not allowed to wake her up, or sneak in anything while the kids are awake, or bother her when she is tired or has a headache. Talk about working with your hands tied.
> 
> I could maybe understand if I didnt tell her how much I love her, if I didnt help around the house, if I wasnt attentive to her needs, if I was an A, if I drank or did drugs, or if I did all I could to avoid work. But I am none of that.
> 
> In a lot of ways, the saying nice guys finish last is a very very true statement.
> 
> I cant even believe there are women out there that actually desire their husbands and want to please them. Seriously, that has to be a myth.
> 
> I have been with one woman my whole life, she is and will always be my one and only love. I have been faithful to her, I still think she is beautiful and I tell her that. But my limited experience is probably why my view of relationships is so skewed.


Goodguy,
I am the exact mirror of you....I wish I could get my husband interested in me. Is your wife open to discussions? I am curious to know what her reasons are cause I have a fear of rejection issue but I have told my husband this and that I am willing to do anything he wants, if he would just express it to me and at least say the words, "do you want to have sex.." or anything close to that! But it sounds like in your case you express your desire to her but she just doesn't do the same. I really would like to know what her thoughts are...good luck.


----------



## annagarret

Goodguy said:


> I have told my wife I am ready to go anytime. I can have a fever, be asleep, heck if I get shot and can be stablized, I am good to go. I dont want there to ever be a time where she felt like it and I missed it. Of course, in 18 years of marriage, she rarely wants to. And I am not allowed to wake her up, or sneak in anything while the kids are awake, or bother her when she is tired or has a headache. Talk about working with your hands tied.
> 
> I could maybe understand if I didnt tell her how much I love her, if I didnt help around the house, if I wasnt attentive to her needs, if I was an A, if I drank or did drugs, or if I did all I could to avoid work. But I am none of that.
> 
> In a lot of ways, the saying nice guys finish last is a very very true statement.
> 
> I cant even believe there are women out there that actually desire their husbands and want to please them. Seriously, that has to be a myth.
> 
> I have been with one woman my whole life, she is and will always be my one and only love. I have been faithful to her, I still think she is beautiful and I tell her that. But my limited experience is probably why my view of relationships is so skewed.


Nice guys DONT finish last, in my book they ALWAYS finish FIRST! I married a nice guy and would never change him. Can I give you a suggestion. Have you guys ever tried hotel sex, I mean as like a date? Having kids around, even though we all love them, can really be a downer on the sex life. If you can get her to a hotel maybe once every 2 or 3 months, to have sex and alone time, maybe then you both can open up and talk about it and start to have more sex.


----------



## Dalayla

I am female, late twenties. I was reading all this posts about women not initiating sex, women turning husbands down, etc, etc. As for me, I need sex every day, better if few times per day ) sorry, can't help it! and there is nothing wrong with me. I am happilly married. I know that guys think about sex allmost all the time.. well I do too ) and I love it! I am glad my husband and I are on the same page. I have heard from my female friends that they mostly don't want it cause they are tired, sex life lacks creativity, they are mad at their partners and cant over come the anger. But, the most impressive one was when one, very pretty, happilly married girl told me: it is just too tiring! I keep thinking about in which aspect is it tiring?!


----------



## Enchantment

Dalayla said:


> I am female, late twenties. I was reading all this posts about women not initiating sex, women turning husbands down, etc, etc. As for me, I need sex every day, better if few times per day ) sorry, can't help it! and there is nothing wrong with me. I am happilly married. I know that guys think about sex allmost all the time.. well I do too ) and I love it! I am glad my husband and I are on the same page. I have heard from my female friends that they mostly don't want it cause they are tired, sex life lacks creativity, they are mad at their partners and cant over come the anger. But, the most impressive one was when one, very pretty, happilly married girl told me: it is just too tiring! I keep thinking about in which aspect is it tiring?!


Well, everybody has a different drive. Yours is obviously high, and maybe your friend's normal drive is much lower. When you have a lower drive, it actually takes a lot of mental energy to get in the right frame of mind for sex, and that can be tiring (as can having to continually contend with a spouse that has a much higher drive.) Sounds like you and your husband are well matched!


----------



## Runs like Dog

I think we need a new cultural definition of the delineation of what marriage is. Too many people spend too much energy bamboozling their partners over too much/too little sexual romance. I think we need more general acceptance of sexless marriage. Sort of like what the French call _mariage blanc_ but w/ even less focus on sex outside of marriage too. I think there's enough people out there who would sign up for sexless marriage if they knew it didn't entail a penalty.


----------



## Goodguy

Gemini79 said:


> Goodguy,
> I am the exact mirror of you....I wish I could get my husband interested in me. Is your wife open to discussions? I am curious to know what her reasons are cause I have a fear of rejection issue but I have told my husband this and that I am willing to do anything he wants, if he would just express it to me and at least say the words, "do you want to have sex.." or anything close to that! But it sounds like in your case you express your desire to her but she just doesn't do the same. I really would like to know what her thoughts are...good luck.


Have not been to the site in more than a year, just saw this reply. 

She was open to discussion, and I did express my desire. However, at this point I do not initiate anymore. Zero. Getting turned down just hurts too much no matter what the reason is. Every time it happens I think back to her indescretion 4 years ago. She treated me the same then and then that whole thing comes back to me again. And it reinforces what I know, and that is I am not the guy that does it for her. 

You have to remember, I am a goodguy  , I dont ask if I know she is tired, or has a headache, or it has been a stressful day. I try to pick a day where things are looking good. However I can still get met with the tired excuse, or the hurry up and get it over with attitude. She makes me feel like such a failure as a lover more than she will probably ever realize, or maybe she does it on purpose.

I asked her at one point to wake me up for sex just once ever 6 months or so. She never has. I asked her to pretend just for one day every 6 months or so that she thought I was handsome and that she wanted me. You know flirting, letting me know that she couldnt wait until the kids were in bed, stuff like that. She never has. I asked her to just once a year, even if it was for my birthday or fathers day or something, to surprise me with a date, or a nite away at a hotel. She never has. 

We have sex maybe once or twice a month, and that is only because she knows that it what is required. It is never because she wants too. It is about all the is left from our counseling.

It is very hard for me not to feel sorry for myself. I feel cheated in so many ways, but I put on a happy face for my kids.

The thing I learned about counseling is that it takes two people that "want" to work on it. In our case she didnt really want too, at least nothing that would require anything of her other than her time at the counseling session.

To give an example I printed out the marriage builders questionare that was suggested and told her it may be interesting for us to do, she never filled it out, I bought her a book called Is that all he ever wants? I think that is the title, and she never read it. It is almost funny. She doesnt do this stuff in a hostile way. She just doesnt care enough, I suppose she is just very selfish. She will never understand that she has hurt me, no more than that, she has destroyed me as a man, and with no other woman to rebuild me, I will remain that way.

Bah enough with my pity party, nothings gonna change. I have accepted it. I will take the crumbs when they are offered.


----------



## hellothere

I used to initiate all the time but got tired of being constantly turned away.

I let him know it's his job to do the initiating now.


----------



## MEM2020

This is toxic. 




Runs like Dog said:


> I think we need a new cultural definition of the delineation of what marriage is. Too many people spend too much energy bamboozling their partners over too much/too little sexual romance. I think we need more general acceptance of sexless marriage. Sort of like what the French call _mariage blanc_ but w/ even less focus on sex outside of marriage too. I think there's enough people out there who would sign up for sexless marriage if they knew it didn't entail a penalty.


----------



## Runs like Dog

Nah it's reality
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## gravis420

MEM11363 said:


> This is toxic.


Damn man. I think you might be right on about the "redefinition" of modern marriage.
My W and I have begun to slip into a sexless marriage. I really tried to fight hard against it.but after a while I just stopped caring. The weird part about it all is I didnt stop caring about sex, just sex with my wife. 
Those feelings of " loss" over not havig sex really kicked my [email protected]@ for a long time. Then as if waking fro a dream. It all lifted. No more anger from rejection. No more paranoia over who she is "seeing". None of it. Maybe it will all come crashing back. Now I feel great about sex. I should say the lack there of.


----------



## Runs like Dog

You are one with the cosmos, grasshopper
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## leigh87

im almost releaved 2 see so many men with the same problem ive been with my partner 4 8 years and sex is becoming a real issue i cant remeber the last time she initiated it and have now stopped trying altogether im quite a sexual person and as much as i try 2 be "different" nothing seems to work. HELP!!!!!!


----------



## Conrad

leigh87 said:


> im almost releaved 2 see so many men with the same problem ive been with my partner 4 8 years and sex is becoming a real issue i cant remeber the last time she initiated it and have now stopped trying altogether im quite a sexual person and as much as i try 2 be "different" nothing seems to work. HELP!!!!!!


Leigh,

I'm willing to wager you'll "find yourself" in these links.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html

Read them all.

Some real eye-openers and some ideas for you.


----------



## Mrs. T

Runs like Dog said:


> I think we need a new cultural definition of the delineation of what marriage is. Too many people spend too much energy bamboozling their partners over too much/too little sexual romance. I think we need more general acceptance of sexless marriage. Sort of like what the French call _mariage blanc_ but w/ even less focus on sex outside of marriage too. I think there's enough people out there who would sign up for sexless marriage if they knew it didn't entail a penalty.


UGH...accept a sexless marriage? Never!


----------



## I_Will_Survive

Runs like Dog said:


> .... I think we need more general acceptance of sexless marriage. Sort of like what the French call _mariage blanc_ but w/ even less focus on sex outside of marriage too. I think there's enough people out there who would sign up for sexless marriage if they knew it didn't entail a penalty.


Yeah, I'm going to have to agree, sexless marriages are not really marriages at all. I've been putting up with one and hoping it will get better and just found out he's getting his sex with other people. I think he always thought I DIDN'T want it, when I did.

There's a post on the first page of this thread, "Women are like cruise ships, men are like speedboats." But my husband always said, "It's always like starting over with you!" Yeah, _each time_, he has to start with kissing, etc., we can't just jump into entry! {Hello! It's called FOREPLAY!} 

One time our marriage counselor told him, "Foreplay starts outside of the bedroom. It's how you interact all day."

That's when he refused to go back to MC.


----------



## ncooke

Yes, my wife initiates sex but often she only *thinks* she came up with the idea...

Understand that women, historically, have a much higher parental investment than men so in general, are looking for sex less often. Or, to be more accurate, their subconscious desire is more selective*.

That doesn't mean they enjoy it any less, or even that they consciously want it less, it's just that real life is more likely to get in the way of sex for women than it is for men.


----------



## Ayan

Depends. its 50/50 with us.


----------



## Develio

Arrived at this thread after a google. Good to know I'm not alone on this. I can't complain about frequency, because it's fine... I just wish that for once she would show even the tiniest amount of desire or physical attention to me first. I don't think I'm too bad physically, maybe not quite Brad Pitt but I still get a "look" every now and again. To be fair to her, she does occasionally initiate but it's like "do you want sex now?", which is a bit of a turn-off actually - and I think just to keep me happy.

I've tried to talk to her, but I get a response of "that's me, I can't change". It'd just be nice to feel "wanted". I've been down the wait-it-out and romancing routes to no avail. I honestly think that if I didn't initiate she'd go the rest of her life without sex, or even thinking about it. I've gone as far a working out the best times in her cycle and trying to drop hints or subtle (and not so subtle) physical signs. 

Oh well. Blame the mother-in-law I guess.


----------



## MEM7

cherrypie18 said:


> 90% of the time I initiated it but my husband turned me down most of that time. I never turned him down because I was always up for it unless really sick.


You must be young. You still have a libido.

That's why men like to marry younger women.


----------



## MEM7

ONE said:


> My wife does every week. The way we have been able to do this is that we have agreed to make love/have sex 2 times per week. I initiate on one of three days (Sun, Mon, Tues) and then my wife initiates on either (Wed, Thurs, Fri). This has been one of the greatest things we have done in our message. Neither of us can decline when the other initiates so the rejection is no longer there. This has taken some time to get to this point, but it is possible. We've helped other couples get to this point in their marriage and it is amazing to see the transformation that happens in their marriage.


That's a really good idea. Never thought of that. Thanks for the idea. I think that could really work for us.


----------



## Duman

:scratchhead:


lisa1994 said:


> Hi, Guys, there are many times I long to have sex but it seems like he doesn't have any desire at all. women has so much to do in the evening, dinner, homework, make sure all the kids washed and go to bed on time, clean dshes, check emails, paying bills, by the time I go to bed, he is sound sleep.... guys, if you want to have sex, help your wife to do chaos, help your wife with kids, then she will lay down at the same time, you will get want you want... I do want him to make love with me all the time, but I don't get it because he is sleeping by the time I got into the bed. so who to blame?


:scratchhead: I tried to help, then by the time I go bed she is sound sleep !! Its not the matter of helping in house hold. Its a matter of interest !!!


----------



## Duman

Mrs. T said:


> UGH...accept a sexless marriage? Never!


:iagree:


----------



## Duman

cherrypie18 said:


> 90% of the time I initiated it but my husband turned me down most of that time. I never turned him down because I was always up for it unless really sick.


:smthumbup: Cherry, keep it up !!!

 Can you give train my wife , plz ?


----------



## Dad27

I have not read all of the posts, but since last November, my wife has been the primary initiator of sex. 

We have been married for almost twenty years and I have kept asking her if she gets tired of me chasing her around all of the time. Majority of the time, she would decline and I would move on, no big deal.

She (myself included) has been seeing a DR knowledgeable about thyroid issues and hormones. It has taken almost two years of treatment, but last November, things got great!!!! I would tell you what our frequency is but I might get a little embarrassed!! She has been the primary instigator! Being a male of 42, I am SUPPOSED to be past my prime...............life is good!!!!

This may sound weird, but guys, get your wives to get their hormones checked. It has made a HUGE difference in my wife's (and mine) life!!!


----------



## Mrs. Yes

I am not one to initiate - but I am working on it. My husband and I have been married for 21 years and we have sex at least 2 times a week. I made a resolution in 2012 to never refuse his sexual advances. In just 5 days I have learned so much. It is crazy how I can see so clearly all the things that get in the way and the 'rules' and 'norms' we have created in our sex life. I have never wanted my husband to feel rejected but I am sure that I have made him feel that way - I am very thankful that he never stops trying. I hope that by the end of the year my resolution will have had many positive impacts on our life and marriage. I am blogging about this experience if you are interested in following along 

I will never say no in 2012


----------



## illinoishubbyandwifey

I would say we each initiate about 50/50. Usually after a workout she's more likely to want to start something.


----------



## Lazarus

If men spend quality time with their spouse and show affection (most important) "initiating" should come naturally. 

If a man neglects his wife in favour of lots of sport, endless nights out with friends, or work, some women just shut down causing resentment on both sides. 

The agreement to "initiate" on both sides on certain days of the week is interesting and wonder how many people have success with it.

Less prescriptive might be for the non initiating spouse to initiate at least a number of agreed times per month.


----------



## Kevinb

you're a cool guy. I hope it gets better for you.


----------



## lake lora

mygirls2 said:


> Hey guys,
> I know this is the men's spot to post stuff, but I couldn't help but to chime in )
> 
> I wouldn't say that I initiate sex, but I do not turn it down. My husband is always wanting sex and I feel as though I can never live up to his sexual appetite...however, I have one as well that is not taken care of the way that I want it. I would be more than willing to hop in the sack if he would pay attention to the emotional needs that I long for. I want to be romanced...not just a quicky then it's over. I think you need to just be open to her about how you feel, so that way she knows and understands what it is you want. My husband did not tell me he wanted for the longest time..and finally we speak openly about our sexual needs/desires/fantasies and it has added some sparks to our relationship since we've had kids. The only thing though is sometimes I am not up to trying everything he wants, so I tell him to slow it down and we'll get there with time...And I know that may take away the excitement or whatever, but sometimes I can feel like I need to perform like porn stars would and it can get intimidating!
> 
> Also..sometimes I get stressed..I will be honest I have gone months where SEX was not on my mind...and the very thought of having to take time out of my day to perform stressed me out even more. When my kids go to bed is MY time..I have enough stress thinking about bills and everything that needs to be done. Selfish as it may seem, it's the truth. And I know now, to keep him happy it really doesn't take much...just attention and some sex ) We want attention too! And...one thing I absolutely love is to be complimented about my performance in some way while we are having sex (and throughout the day)...because we women worry about how we look or if we are pleasing you...as great as sex is...we still stress...
> 
> Anyways,
> That's all I've got for now. Good luck guys!


OMG-This is a story book of my life. I like to be romanced after I have worked so hard and every now and then, I would like for my husband to recognize that I work so hard and I need some romance. I love foreplay and my husband can't or won't do it. This is good!


----------



## Lionelhutz

For the first few years, my wife initiated the majority of times. Then she lost her drive entirely. 

I increasingly suspect it is hormonal and that is the case with a great many low drive spouses. In our case the difference seemed to be dramatic. However, even in other cases, it seems to me that he lower the physical/hormonal need for sex the more "complicated" sex becomes and the more likely you are to find other issues to be interfering with sex.


----------



## Jeff74

freddie_fender said:


> Curious, but we have been together for 8 years, no kids. Within those 8 years, my wife has probably initiated sex less than 5 times.
> 
> We have discussed it numerous times, how it would be nice if she took the lead the odd time. But still, it never happens. I believe the last time she initiated sex was at least 2 years ago.
> 
> Is this odd? Is it too much to ask of her to initiate once in a awhile? Any comments would be wonderful! Thank you.



Guess this is an old thread that keeps on going!

My wife does not initiate sex and she gets angry or annoyed with me if I bring it up. I find that she and I get along really well as long as the topic of sex does not come up. At first it was difficult for me to accept this but over time I have become used to it and it no longer bothers me. I use porn as my outlet and she is find with that because it takes the burden off of her. This may not sound ideal for most people but it seems to work for us as crazy as it may sound! It would be great if things would be different with her but she just has no desire to have sex with me (no idea why though!)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bellamaxjoy

My husband and I never go to bed seperatly. We wait for the other if there is reason to. As for initiating, it used to be him, now my drive is thru the roof and he is slowing so I instigate more now. I love the idea someone above had of agreeing to each initiate once a week.


----------



## Stonewall

Mine does all the time,


----------



## The Chimp

Never. "Ladies don't"


----------



## Accipiter777

Lazarus said:


> If men spend quality time with their spouse and show affection (most important) "initiating" should come naturally.
> 
> If a man neglects his wife in favour of lots of sport, endless nights out with friends, or work, some women just shut down causing resentment on both sides.
> 
> The agreement to "initiate" on both sides on certain days of the week is interesting and wonder how many people have success with it.
> 
> Less prescriptive might be for the non initiating spouse to initiate at least a number of agreed times per month.


Not true in my case.


----------



## hookares

My ex NEVER initiated any sort of physical contact unless I had just provided her with a gift. Even then, it almost never resulted in intercourse or any other sexual contact most married people take for granted.
Since being single, things have gone much better, but of course, I haven't remarried so it would be hard to predict how things might progress.


----------



## ailatan

Like another poster said "I've said this before and I'll say it again, I never thought men could say no to sex until I got married lol"

I initiate sex about every time we have sex. It used to be 50-50% before we got married, after that, and specially after we had our kid, HE NEVER initiates sex anymore. It is always me. And no, for guys who think I got destroyed after having my baby, you are wrong, my body actually looks better. I am always clean, always have manicure and pedicure done. Hair always looking and smelling nice, not too much product that looks like a rock, it is pretty natural. I always try to look sexy and even though I always have to initiate it and sometimes I am even turned down. I haven't had oral sex in probably over 1 year. I always give him oral every time we have sex. I try to get him to watch porn with me to see if it will turn him on but he feels uncomfortable, I start "playing with myself" in from of him and he leaves or pretends he is not seeing anything. If I could I would have sex everyday, but with him it is impossible. I try at least 2 times a week. I don't know what is it. I don't know if it is our age difference (I am 23 and he is 35) but yeah, it seems like I like more sex than he does.


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## Toffer

Ha Ha!

You funny!


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## anchorwatch

1) She'll be wearing sexy lingerie and not her neck to ankle flannels. 
2) She'll ask if I want to go in the hot tub after dinner. 

I'd count that as initiation.


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## t_hopper_2012

A few of points:

1. Age probably has a lot to do with it. As the hormone levels in their bodies change, each woman is going to respond differently. My wife's libido has definitely waned as she has aged. She talked to her doctor about it and got the response "I hear this from women every single day."

2. Raising children has a big impact. After spending the day looking after the needs of the little ones, sex with the husband can look more like "just somebody else who wants something." This used to bug me - until I spent a number of days minding the house and kids while she was at work. I was then able to see her point of view a little better. (Not to say that I wouldn't have jumped if she had initiated).

3. I once read something that I'll paraphrase here: "With men, sex leads to closeness; with women, closeness leads to sex".


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## Stonewall

mine does all the time. God love her!


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## seriously_yours

anchorwatch said:


> 1) She'll be wearing sexy lingerie and not her neck to ankle flannels.
> 2) She'll ask if I want to go in the hot tub after dinner.
> 
> I'd count that as initiation.


Awesome
I just had this conversation last night with my HFG
I am travelling and when I called and asked what she was wearing, she said pajamas. I asked if they were "full neck to ankle no sex PJ", or pull over the head "take me now" Pjs

If 80% of communciation is non verbal this is a sure come on for me. 
She knows not to slow down when she walks by me at home = Her initiaitng sex !
Heaven help her if she dares to look away from her book when we are lying in bed reading - Her initiating sex  :smthumbup:

It just a matter of adjusting your outlook make the facts fits your perception 

Im committed loving relationships "NO" does sometimes mean "Try Harder"

I love my life !!


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## Lionelhutz

seriously_yours said:


> Awesome
> I just had this conversation last night with my HFG
> I am travelling and when I called and asked what she was wearing, she said pajamas. I asked if they were "full neck to ankle no sex PJ", or pull over the head "take me now" Pjs
> 
> If 80% of communciation is non verbal this is a sure come on for me.
> She knows not to slow down when she walks by me at home = Her initiaitng sex !
> Heaven help her if she dares to look away from her book when we are lying in bed reading - Her initiating sex  :smthumbup:
> 
> It just a matter of adjusting your outlook make the facts fits your perception
> 
> Im committed loving relationships "NO" does sometimes mean "Try Harder"
> 
> I love my life !!


This sounds fine if you guys are in tune and she has a reasonably high sex drive. Anything short of that and the permanently wanting sex posture will eventually irritate most women.


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## seriously_yours

Lionelhutz said:


> This sounds fine if you guys are in tune and she has a reasonably high sex drive. Anything short of that and the permanently wanting sex posture will eventually irritate most women.


Not if you do it with LOVE and its not always about coitus...... kissing, caressing, inappropriate physical contact, I CAN NOT walk by her without touching her ......... and to be clear I dont always get it, but she never has to wonder if I find her deliciously desirable...


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## Lionelhutz

seriously_yours said:


> Not if you do it with LOVE and its not always about coitus...


Only if that were true and humans were that simple


----------



## seriously_yours

Lionelhutz said:


> Only if that were true and humans were that simple


Lucky for us it is and we are


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## Browncoat

My wife may initiate once every couple of years, it's not common. It used to bother me, but I've come to accept that's just how she is.

What's far more important to me than the question of who initiated, is the question of whether or not she desires me once we start to make out (but that's a topic for another thread).


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## lovelygirl

Goodguy said:


> But my limited experience is probably why my view of relationships is so skewed.


What do you mean _Limited Experience_?? 
In what?

You don't need to have have several partners in the past to call yourself an experienced man.


----------



## PooDoo

She rarely used to initiate, but I found a secret. Backrubs at bed time. I almost always (now) go to bed the same time as my w and I give her a 10 minute backrub (which really relaxes her) - and I don't expect sex afterwards - no pressure at all - zero (really!).
What happens next...
1. She falls asleep/I read a book 
2. We both go to sleep 
3. She jumps my bones. 

When she initiates - I'm very happy!


----------



## RandomDude

Hell I just have to touch the missus a few places and it's on...



> My guess they say no because they either get off to porn before we initiate or there's someone else.


Erm, no, some women can also be a bit too much sometimes.


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## Goldmember357

She does if she did not i doubt i'd be married to her. If she never ever did i would doubt i feel desired and would not put up with such a thing.

I initiate more than she does and she is almost always happy for sex she initiates more on her period or say special times like when we go on vacation or valentines or when we have special dinner dates she initiates more on those day's/times. Regularly though cause i initiate first she does not have to but she will give me a bj here and there randomly.


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## Queen Charlie

I am allways the one who initiates sex in our house.Wish huby would once in a while but we usually go through weeks and a lot of badgering before we have sex.I would love the hubby to come into kitchen and just give me a quickie.Mkes me so mad cause e is always soloving and says e loves me which i know e does,yet the sex is nearly none existant.


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## Hank567

I don't understand why some guys have a problem being the initiator. I feel like, if she initiates, it's nice, but it's not mandatory. To me, there's a huge difference between always being the initiator vs being shot down all the time.


----------



## lovelygirl

Hank567 said:


> I don't understand why some guys have a problem being the initiator. I feel like, if she initiates, it's nice, but it's not mandatory. To me, there's a huge difference between always being the initiator vs being shot down all the time.


Correct!

I guess as long as none of the partners is turned down then why it matters who the initiator is?

Just be happy that you are not rejected!


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## Hank567

lovelygirl said:


> Just be happy that you are not rejected!


Exactly. All these wives that post "I don't necessarily initiate, but I wouldn't turn my husband down, either". Man, we should all be so lucky. I would totally take that situation over one where I was rejected constantly.


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## demon7866

here is a quick realization for you. There are a lot of men that do everything you do plus more and everything that you and the other women think we should do. We still get no appreciation and our wives don't initiate sex. I'm a full time college student too, and I work 50+ hours a week. So, whats my wife's excuse, and the other wives excuses?



lisa1994 said:


> Hi, Guys, there are many times I long to have sex but it seems like he doesn't have any desire at all. women has so much to do in the evening, dinner, homework, make sure all the kids washed and go to bed on time, clean dshes, check emails, paying bills, by the time I go to bed, he is sound sleep.... guys, if you want to have sex, help your wife to do chaos, help your wife with kids, then she will lay down at the same time, you will get want you want... I do want him to make love with me all the time, but I don't get it because he is sleeping by the time I got into the bed. so who to blame?


----------



## demon7866

Here is the difference. If the guy is always the initiator, even if they do not get turned down. Then it is still a bummer. All it shows it that she is willing to have sex to make him happy for the moment. Doesn't show that she ever actually wants it or him. To me that is worse than being rejected.




lovelygirl said:


> Correct!
> 
> I guess as long as none of the partners is turned down then why it matters who the initiator is?
> 
> Just be happy that you are not rejected!


----------



## demon7866

OK, First of all we have been married for 7 years now. All this hoopla I've read on these past posts is ridiculous. If the woman never initiates sex it is the same as being turned down. The only reason she is doing it is to shut the guy up. If you have to always initiate sex, and the woman never does, then there is a problem. First of all let me explain some things. I work full time +, I go to college full time, I am the one that does most of the house work plus cooking dinner, I am the one that does the yard work. She does some but not near as much as I do. Ok, so that all the stressfull crap. Now, I do everyday tell her how much I love her, how good she looks, do all kinds of little things for her( back massage, foot rub, hold and kiss on her, ect.), but she has no desire or interest in sex. Let alone be the initiator. It has been this way for 5 years. So, all you women that are such experts tell me what am I doing wrong????? Oh, and as far as us guys should be happy that we are getting it. Well, my wife and I haven't had sex for about 2 months now. I'm not happy with just getting it. If she cannot initiate and show me she has some interest in me and what I do for her, well I'll do without and masturbate.


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## demon7866

What and men never do that stuff? I am in charge of all of that in my household. Plus do all the little extras for her. She never initiates or is interested. So, I have stopped trying. Would rather masturbate. 




lisa1994 said:


> Hi, Guys, there are many times I long to have sex but it seems like he doesn't have any desire at all. women has so much to do in the evening, dinner, homework, make sure all the kids washed and go to bed on time, clean dshes, check emails, paying bills, by the time I go to bed, he is sound sleep.... guys, if you want to have sex, help your wife to do chaos, help your wife with kids, then she will lay down at the same time, you will get want you want... I do want him to make love with me all the time, but I don't get it because he is sleeping by the time I got into the bed. so who to blame?


----------



## demon7866

Wish my wife was more like you. 95% of the time we are together she has an orgasm. About 75% of the time is the squirting kind. For the past 5 years of our 7 year marriage she never initiates sex. I have given up. We have not had sex in 2 months. I feel if I do housework, work full time, go to college full time, and worry about the bills, plus do all the little things a guy should do for his girl, then I should not have to initiate all the time. She seems never interested even though I DO know she has the big O quite often. I have given up and resorted to Rosey and her five 10 sisters.





greenpearl said:


> Surprised?!
> 
> I am blessed with a horny body!
> 
> I started to enjoy sex when I was 18, and I have never stopped enjoying sex and orgasms.
> 
> If I can keep this going on.................
> 
> I am really a lucky woman!!!


----------



## lovelygirl

demon7866 said:


> OK, First of all we have been married for 7 years now. All this hoopla I've read on these past posts is ridiculous. If the woman never initiates sex it is the same as being turned down. The only reason she is doing it is to shut the guy up. If you have to always initiate sex, and the woman never does, then there is a problem. First of all let me explain some things. I work full time +, I go to college full time, I am the one that does most of the house work plus cooking dinner, I am the one that does the yard work. She does some but not near as much as I do. Ok, so that all the stressfull crap. Now, I do everyday tell her how much I love her, how good she looks, do all kinds of little things for her( back massage, foot rub, hold and kiss on her, ect.), but she has no desire or interest in sex. Let alone be the initiator. It has been this way for 5 years. So, all you women that are such experts tell me what am I doing wrong????? Oh, and as far as us guys should be happy that we are getting it. Well, my wife and I haven't had sex for about 2 months now. I'm not happy with just getting it. If she cannot initiate and show me she has some interest in me and what I do for her, well I'll do without and masturbate.


oh wow!

Have you ever told her that it'd be nice if she initiated too??
Do you have a good communication with each other?

Tell her what you told us here.


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## Hank567

demon7866 said:


> She never initiates


Not a problem.



demon7866 said:


> or is interested.


Problem.

Don't confuse the two.


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## rankinsmedic

My ex never initiated sex. And eventually, everytime I tried to be spontaneous and initiate it, she shot me down. I'm a romantic and a gentleman, but when I tried to be romantic and turn her on, I ended finding that I was left feeling blue, upstairs and downstairs. That wasn't meant to be a joke, but I'm trying to make lighter of a situation that has really been infuriating me.


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## KissKiss

I always initiate sex with my husband and he constantly turns me down. We'll be sitting on the couch and I'll ask if he would like a blowjob and he'll turn me down. It's heartbreaking.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## *LittleDeer*

Lots of women like to be chased and dominated. Initiating to me is difficult but I would do it every once in a while so long as he ravished me often. Men who can't be manly and don't show me that they find me super sexy aren't attractive to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bizzy79

After trying different things for the last 12 years, it is now my wife who has to be the initiator. Not really my choice, but when I initiates, she rarely wants to have sex, and she gets annoyed because of the 'pressure'. So I have to wait for her, basically. Having said that, when she is in the mood (which is not very often), she doesn't exactly initiate as such, just 'lets it be known'. I then normally have to make the actual moves


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## sinnister

KissKiss said:


> I always initiate sex with my husband and he constantly turns me down. We'll be sitting on the couch and I'll ask if he would like a blowjob and he'll turn me down. It's heartbreaking.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Has he been tested for insanity?

Turning down the couch BJ is insane.


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## sinnister

*LittleDeer* said:


> Lots of women like to be chased and dominated. Initiating to me is difficult but I would do it every once in a while so long as he ravished me often.* Men who can't be manly and don't show me that they find me super sexy aren't attractive to me.*_Posted via Mobile Device_


This is the part I struggle with. How do I know if I'm showing her that I find her sexy? It's exhausting to even think about.

I'm the type of guy (and I believe most of us are like this) that says the tent in pants is evidence enough that I find you sexy.


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## bubbly girl

I used to initiate sex all the time when he stopped, and was turned down 9 times out of 10. Now we're back to having a rockin' sex life and he initiates most of the time. 

I know he likes when I initiate, but I'm scared of being rejected again. He really did a number on me back then. Once in a while I'll initiate, but often I feel like I'm making him do something he doesn't really feel like doing but does it out of duty. At least when he initiates I know he wants to have sex.


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## La Rose Noire

I'd say I initiate about half of the time. It's not an issue for me. I go after what I want


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## OneLoveXo

I used to very very rarely initiate, at beginning we f***ed like jack rabbits, any moment we had alone we were already doing it. So I let it go this way for a loooong time, I let him let me "know" when he is ready for sex. What I didn't realize is most of the time he is already ready for it.

However as our relationship progressed we were both weighed down with stress, we were having less sex (still usually 6xtimes a week at the least), but than it started getting less (3-4 times a week). We had a talk and I told him how we need to have more sex (I feel so insecure when we go days without it), he told me how he was tired/stressed but agreed that he should be focusing what energy he has left on me. That is when it clicked I should be doing the same.

Even thought he was still the initiator for all those weeks, I decided to make a change, I realized I should be initiating as well. And ever since I initiate more than I ever have before, especially the last several weeks. 

I decided there is no excuse for not having time or being too tired to have sex, sex makes me feels confident, relaxes us both and we become way less on "edge". This week we had sex 10 times, and we were are sick on top of it (had nasty cold since last Sat). 

During week we did it twice, friday I introduced something new to our relationship (letting him cumm on me, and learning to swallow; I've always wanted to please him this way but my gagg reflex is the worst, however I am starting regular "training" to get over it). 

Anyway I ended up giving him insane amount of oral. The expression on his face was priceless, I have never seen him so happy. Needless to say we had sex 4 times on Friday, 2 times on sat, 2 more times on sunday. We are both on cloud nine. Ever since I have started initiating more things are getting so much better, he is even way more into me, we are really connected right now.

So now I initiate and I will never stop, I love when he initiates because it makes me feel wanted, I realize I need to make him feel wanted as well.

This weekend was by far the best yet, the more I initiate the more he wants to initiate, the more sex we have. I am looking forward to this week and every week after  This site has changed my mind on how I look at sex and relationships, I now realize there is no excuse on getting lazy with your relationship, no matter the stress. Nothing is more important than your bond together, and if something is getting in front of it than it's time for change, and change is always better sooner than later


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## OneLoveXo

sinnister said:


> This is the part I struggle with. How do I know if I'm showing her that I find her sexy? It's exhausting to even think about.
> 
> I'm the type of guy (and I believe most of us are like this) that says the tent in pants is evidence enough that I find you sexy.


My bf randomly will grab my body parts and tells me what he loves about them, he is always in my boobs; he constantly tells me how sexy and beautiful I am, sometimes when I am naked and other times when I am just watching tv with him. Key is doing it enough.

Also when my bf surprises me by cleaning up some chores, it shows me just how much he loves me, by doing that it shows me that I am important in his life, it makes me feels more confident. Believe me doing a chore for her will show her the extent of your love, which trickles down to her self confidence.

Also, buy her flowers, it can be just one flower, but it shows her you are thinking of her. My bf does this and I press at least 1 flower from every time he bring me any, the book I pressed it is so fat now  Once in a while I go through them, it's all full of love.

Also why not bring her dinner, or prepare some, give her a massage and preapre a bubble bath for her. Pamper her, it ALL trickles down to her confidence. If you aren't doing anything romantic or aren't helping her around than it make her think that you don't love her enough to help around so she thinks you are losing interest in her. But when you do help around and do romantic things that in reminds her how much you love her, and she will feel more confident, and more sexier.

Also take sometime to verbally appreciate, tell her how sexy she is when she undresses. Tell her "thank you" for different thigns she does. Believe if you starts doing this on regular basis, you will see that she will start doing the same. 

Also, do date night once at least once a week (no kids, no stresses, no worries, just you and her), and try spending "quality" time together through the week (meaning TV time does not count), my parents always exchance massages, now my bf and i do the same. Or when we watch TV we play sex game, we pick each pick a trigger word (once that is said a lot) from show we are wathcing, and if one of our words is said than we are required to perform a sexual task for like 10-15sec, this gets us riled upr or often leads to sex mid-show. For ex. when we watch buff the vampire slayed, I chose that anytime anyone says Buffy's name that I get some fingering, my bf picked the word "slayer" so every time someone said that work I would give him a quick BJ. There are other sex games out there, I would find some online and do them, it will wake a whole new excitement for you 

Spoil her once at least once a week (just pick a day, do chores for her and draw her a bath, and put kids to bed, than pleasure her after and have your intimate sex) and I would be surprised if she doesn't start doing the same. Sometimes all it takes is for someone to "start" it.


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## sinnister

This is all great advice..but some of us have spouses that just have zero libido. I've tried pretty much everything you've suggested. Whatever it is she's holding onto, resentment, fear, conservative upbringing....it is preventing her from letting go.

Those of you that are in a position to enjoy your intimate time..I beg of you to take advantage of it. When it's over it's over.


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## C123

I'm with you sinnister. Sometimes all of the great options that work for others just flat out don't work on a wife with LD. My wife never initiates sex and often when I do, I get the same thing most of the rest of you do...rejection and anger.

If we have sex once a month, that's a lot. She has agreed to go to an MC about so hopefully that will help. Everything else in our relationships is great, but the lack of sex is starting to make me resentful. It's important to me and you'd think she would want to make me happy considering all of the things I do for her, but it just doesn't happen that way.

Honestly, I'd be happy with once a week or once every other week.


----------



## Caribbean Man

My wife initiate sex very often, mostly around that time of the month [ ovulation].
And I most times willingly oblige.
The key to good sex is keeping each other " off balanced."
In other words , just mix it up a bit at times. Make sure its custom made to suit your partner's likes.
If the woman is not to keen on BJ's then take time and work with her, and vice versa.
Play [ have fun,laugh , flirt] with each other outside he bedroom.
Men, tell her stuff she wants to hear. YES,she likes to hear " dirty stuff" from you!
Get to know her body,how she likes to be touched, and she will initiate sex more often. 
BJ's are nice, but at the risk of sounding crazy ,I would raise a polemic.
Sometimes its good to playfully " refuse " it.Don't act as if your'e desperate for it...It throws her " off balance" and creates a greater need in her.


----------



## okeydokie

Caribbean Man said:


> My wife initiate sex very often, mostly around that time of the month [ ovulation].
> And I most times willingly oblige.
> The key to good sex is keeping each other " off balanced."
> In other words , just mix it up a bit at times. Make sure its custom made to suit your partner's likes.
> If the woman is not to keen on BJ's then take time and work with her, and vice versa.
> Play [ have fun,laugh , flirt] with each other outside he bedroom.
> Men, tell her stuff she wants to hear. YES,she likes to hear " dirty stuff" from you!
> Get to know her body,how she likes to be touched, and she will initiate sex more often.
> BJ's are nice, but at the risk of sounding crazy ,I would raise a polemic.
> Sometimes its good to playfully " refuse " it.Don't act as if your'e desperate for it...It throws her " off balance" and creates a greater need in her.


good advice if you have a partner that is willing to play along, alot of us dont. what you describe above is us before kids, never been the same since


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## karma*girl

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Caribbean Man

okeydokie said:


> good advice if you have a partner that is willing to play along, alot of us dont. what you describe above is us before kids, never been the same since


:iagree:


I have heard it from many others,about that problem after children arrive. Yes it's a challenge,especially during the first few years after childbirth. It takes a lot of open communication ,maturity and planning to overcome the hurdles.
Maybe if two people were to also plan for the adjustments in their sex life BEFORE [planned ]pregnancy , it may help to ease some of the stress.


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## C123

_Maybe if two people were to also plan for the adjustments in their sex life BEFORE [planned ]pregnancy , it may help to ease some of the stress._

That's funny! There is no planning for any adjustments before parenthood. I guess you can plan all you want, but when that little bundle of joy arrives, all of that goes out the window!


----------



## JoeRockStar

bizzy79 said:


> After trying different things for the last 12 years, it is now my wife who has to be the initiator. Not really my choice, but when I initiates, she rarely wants to have sex, and she gets annoyed because of the 'pressure'. So I have to wait for her, basically. Having said that, when she is in the mood (which is not very often), she doesn't exactly initiate as such, just 'lets it be known'. I then normally have to make the actual moves


That sucks, so basically you're at her mercy for when you have sex?? Awfully selfish and controlling if you ask me.

That being said, I can count on one hand the number of times my wife has initiated anything in our 19 year marriage,.


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## Good_Dad

Sex? What's that?


----------



## barnierubble2012

bubbly girl said:


> I used to initiate sex all the time when he stopped, and was turned down 9 times out of 10. Now we're back to having a rockin' sex life and he initiates most of the time.
> 
> I know he likes when I initiate, but I'm scared of being rejected again. He really did a number on me back then. Once in a while I'll initiate, but often I feel like I'm making him do something he doesn't really feel like doing but does it out of duty. At least when he initiates I know he wants to have sex.


Same situation here.....


----------



## Aspire

sinnister said:


> This is all great advice..but some of us have spouses that just have zero libido. I've tried pretty much everything you've suggested. Whatever it is she's holding onto, resentment, fear, conservative upbringing....it is preventing her from letting go.
> 
> Those of you that are in a position to enjoy your intimate time..I beg of you to take advantage of it. When it's over it's over.


Great post sinnister. For all who are the right position, please take full advantage of the luxury you have and love one another as intimate and as often as you can. So many of us are reading and typing these posts in great effort to find that one thing that can change an issue that has been going on for years if not decades. For a lot of us the outcomes don't just affect H and W but also the children that are involved. Love and be intimate with your H/W like there is no tomorrow because for some of us, the only option is moving on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Runs like Dog

I already have a job. And a crazy fickle boss.


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## Jimbob82

My wife very rarely initiates it. I knew she was horny when we'd chill in bed with a dvd on and then she'd starting moaning seductively, running her hands over my chest and down my body. Its such a long time since she did that (years), I've kinda given up hope of it happening again 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Person12

My wife has (had) a strong sex drive. But since we gotten married a year and a half ago, I think she initiated sex once, maybe twice. The second was a few months into our marriage at like 3:30 am when I was sleeping after a long day at work. I was pretty unresponsive overall (seeing how I was sleeping 1 minute before all of this). Ever since she has just been bitter about that one time and always brings its up when I ask why she never initiates.


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## Boba Fett

I initiate 99.9% of the time. A handful of times in 12 years of marriage. Her drive has always been low while mine, now at 40, is still very high. I turned her down twice ever. Once when I was exhausted and the other when we were trying for a baby. We already had sex 5 times in a row that week. 

A few years ago, while on holiday I woke up to find her pleasuring herself. I was shocked, but very turned on and we has great sex.

I remembered this recently and tried something. She was either in a light sleep or just about to nod off, when I started masturbating. But I was over-doing it, almost faking how aroused I was actually getting so she would know. This seemed to wake her up and get her turned on and we had a good session


----------



## Dadof3greatkids

Never. Not. Once. 

We went to counseling and the whole subject matter made her upset. I am trying to deal with a bunch of my personal issues (and have made a lot of progress), but she claims I have to "inspire" her to have those feelings. She then forgets that she never has initiated (with anyone). 

We spent sessions talking about her needs, how I could address them, which I am working on. Instead of addressing her issues, she makes me responsible for her actions. It's very frustrating.

I know that I can't change her and can only continue to work on myself. Still, it's nice to vent on this board!


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## 40isthenew20

In over 17 years of marriage, I believe that she has initiated it maybe three or four times. To be fair, I don't usually wait and make the first move. But it would be nice to have her perhaps even throw me a hint that once the kids are asleep, something nice is going to happen.


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## SimplyAmorous

*LittleDeer* said:


> Lots of women like to be chased and dominated. Initiating to me is difficult but I would do it every once in a while so long as he ravished me often. Men who can't be manly and don't show me that they find me super sexy aren't attractive to me.


I think we ALL love to feel hotly desired -with a little chase - oh the FUN.  

I have always had my "nights" of initiation in our marriage -from early on... I wasn't craving sex as often as he wanted ....but when I wanted it.... I wasn't shy... I was gonna "get some"... I never had a problem going up to him, copping a feel to say ..."come on baby, I need you" ...He only took seconds in the past....he was ready for action. 

For a time.... I became an initiating Queen....even wearing him out , I really pushed a little TOO much --but yet, he still never pushed me away ....Love him for that.


----------



## jaquen

Of course. I wouldn't have any desire to be with a woman who never initiated. I love for my woman, who is incredibly sweet, kind, and very even tempered and pleasing, to get aggressive from time to time and just take me. It's a huge difference from her usual personality, but when she gets in the mood she's a freaking tiger in the bedroom. There is NOTHING like having a woman need to taste you so badly that she just throws you down, takes takes your **** in her mouth, and hungrily goes to town until you're totally drained.

I've got less than zero interest in always being the one to initiate. I get off on feeling desired.


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## uraha

Depends on your definition of "initiate."

If hinting counts, then yes. But if you mean first physical contact...ummmmmno.


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## 3kgtmitsu

Been married for about 8 months now, and so far she has initiated once. The thing that kills me, she talked about how horney she always was in the past, so where did all of that go? We definitely have great sex, some of the time, but something still just doesn't feel right. Its as if we are out of sync, and I have never felt this in other relationships. Its an argument we have frequently, and I just don't want to wind up being 'one of those' marriages that I hear about where couples go months if not years without sex, just sounds like a horrible way to live. Granted, there are emotional and or medical reasons that can ruin sex drive and thats not isolated to men or women.

I truely think in a marriage, you can have harmony if you always focus on serving each other, and put aside your own needs, once one partner stops serving the other, then you have conflict. Communicating, and actually CARING aboutwhat the other person wants can make a huge difference. I find myself feeling guilty in some ways for feeling selfish, yet on another hand, I don't feel like I am out of line to want to feel desired and feeling that fire. I do think we are both to blame, but the question is, can it be fixed? And can I accept it if it cant?


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## DangerousCurves

I do most of the initiating nowadays


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## Jimbob82

As chief iniator\mostly pushed away husband, I always feel real sad when I see a woman posting about her husband not wanting to jump her bones every day!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## I'mAllIn

sinnister said:


> I'm the type of guy (and I believe most of us are like this) that says the tent in pants is evidence enough that I find you sexy.


I'd bet most women think like I do that a tent in your pants is most definitely not the ultimate sign that you think we're sexy. You guys get those when a hot woman shows up in a movie or, well hell, you wake up with them. We want to know you think WE'RE sexy. Just us. No one else. That you want us, in that moment. It takes more than a woody sometimes.


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## anchorwatch

sinnister said:


> This is all great advice..but some of us have spouses that just have zero libido. I've tried pretty much everything you've suggested. Whatever it is she's holding onto, resentment, fear, conservative upbringing....it is preventing her from letting go.
> 
> Those of you that are in a position to enjoy your intimate time..I beg of you to take advantage of it. When it's over it's over.


Sorry Sinnister, I read this and felt bad. I guess I'm blessed. My DW has zero libido for medical reasons. She expresses she misses it, as hormone therapy is not an option. She still initiates. Not often, not aggressive, but still invites me to the hot tub or puts on reveling lingerie. I do miss the frequency, but I always show her, as far as I'm concerned, she still has it. I've felt that if I keep her felling wanted as a sexual being she keep at it. As women are in it for the emotional rush as well. It's works for us so far.


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## ExhaustedLFH

We have mind blowing sex, but it is all on me. Not only does she not initiate, she never tells me or hints to me when she wants too. So I constantly ask her, which she ten turns around into me asking for sex all the time.

Several times in the past we have made deals or promises with each of us having one end to uphold. hers was always initiating sex in some way, and its never happened.

She does awesome stuff in bed, and we do other cool things like take nude photos, video tape ourselves, strip teases etc...

But to make those things happen is like pulling teeth.

Just once id like to be sitting in my chair on on the couch and have her come over and unzip my pants.

Its been ten years, so Im thinking its not going to happen at this point.


----------



## alton

I think I could accept my wife not initiating sex if it's something she's never done before but she used to, all the time. Not only that, she used to do it in ways that would drive me crazy (in a good way!). 

These days I always have to get it started and 9/10 she'll put on a reluctanct act that makes me feel like she's doing me a favour. Until we get into it, then it's still as great and as amazing as it's always been.

I've resorted to not initiating it and seeing how long we'll go for without sex before she caves. I'll be honest though I'm struggling already! We've never longer than a week without doing it and it's been 7 days now.


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## Jimbob82

It's always much worse, IMO, when your partner has gone from HD to an almost asexual being who will never jump your bones unless there's a blue moon in a month of Sundays. I am DYING for my wife to just come over to me whilst I'm chilling, and ram her tongue down my throat whilst grabbing my crotch and getting me all hot and bothered, but literally cannot imagine it EVER happening again. There's no bigger turn on than when your wife wants to do you right there and then! I'm only 30, and not planning on being a monk, thank you very much!

Alton, 7 days is harsh my friend, but I'm going maybe 18-21 days between each occasion nowadays, and it is killing me...


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## Cee Paul

My answer to the original question is - NO, and my wife is just one of those women who no matter what you do to please her in bed just doesn't enjoy sex very much(I know because I have flat out asked her). Now my ex was a crazy b*tch but she loooooved sex - was extremely kinky and creative - and would always initiate sex simply because she was horny; so I have gone from an exciting bag of Skittles with her to now having a...........plain boring cough drop.


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## Immortalrh

I will say that throughout my marriage, initation has changed a great deal. We have been married for 13 years. When I was first married it was roughly me initiating 2/3 of the time. But we lived apart for the first year of our marriage and there were some other issues. 
After about a year of living together we started going through a cycle of she would initiate most of the time and I would respond *sometimes*, to I would initiate most of the time and she would respond *sometimes*, to we had sex and who cares who initiated, to no one initiated and we went a month or two without sex. Throw into the mix I would be gone for extended times for work and our sex life changed every time I came back and it got chaotic. 
When I was younger it really bothered me during the times I would always initiate. But there have been stretches where I will honestly say I had sex to spare my wife’s feelings, not because I wanted to have sex at all. 
Now I would say we are a little less crazy about it and she initiates about as much as I do, though for her it generally is more subdued. More in the way what she wears to bed and being a little suggestive rather than sitting in my lap and playing tonsil-hockey or other things that she would do when we were younger.
It is all about reading your partner and knowing what they want, whether they say it in words or not. In my marriage, talking about things worked on fixing many of our problems, but it did not do as much as for our sex life. Learn what she/he wants and what makes them want you. They married you, so they must have wanted you on some level, at least in the beginning. 
Communication works both ways. However, I would say IME, talking about it can be a real negative. Maybe it will work and maybe not. But I have learned that if I want my W to want me, there are very good non-verbal ways of communicating it. For you, learn what she/he wants and use those ways to get them to open up.
BTW, the ‘I can wait it out until THEY initiate’ approach may not work if your partner is just not interested in sex. Everyone, well most people, goes through periods of higher or lower libido. Just because they are not interested/don’t initiate, it does not mean you are doing something wrong.

Sorry for the novel. Just wanted to reply to multiple points I saw in the thread.


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## Cee Paul

A lot of times for me knowing that the other person is not all that into it or as excited about getting laid as I am - kills my mood.


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## Overitau

In short never...

It's always been on me to do that in our 11 years of marriage. I stopped initiating attempts some two months ago. After a few days of trying all I got were 'rainchecks' that never got fulfilled. Then it was the "that's all you want" line. She's never just touched me out of her own desire to, I've never received or given her oral sex - god knows I've tried! So I hit a wall and now as my user name suggests, I'm well and truly over it. I don't try, I don't ask, I really don't care any more. Why should I when she doesn't? 

I don't feel desired, wanted or needed intimately. I could go elsewhere if it were just 'sex', but it's more than that. 

To be honest - if it wasn't for our two boys because of this issue alone I would be up and gone.


----------



## Runs like Dog

I already HAVE a job, thank you.


----------



## anotherguy

I'mAllIn said:


> I'd bet most women think like I do that a tent in your pants is most definitely not the ultimate sign that you think we're sexy. You guys get those when a hot woman shows up in a movie or, well hell, you wake up with them. We want to know you think WE'RE sexy. Just us. No one else. That you want us, in that moment. It takes more than a woody sometimes.


:iagree: Yep. So true. You want to get a woman really fired up - show her your emotional desire for her. She already knows you're horny. Showing her your wiener doesn't count unless she is _already convinced_ because of your relationship.

Yeah - women just like sex for sex's sake too just like guys... but you get the idea. Women are indeed crock-pots and guys are microwaves. (I said crock-pot, not crack-pot  )

Buy yes - my wife initiates. I'd say we are pretty balanced - I do and she does. I suppose if I had to put a number on it, I would say I do 60% of the time, she 40%. There 'isnt much friction on that score', if you will excuse the double-pun.


----------



## Cee Paul

Overitau said:


> In short never...
> 
> It's always been on me to do that in our 11 years of marriage. I stopped initiating attempts some two months ago. After a few days of trying all I got were 'rainchecks' that never got fulfilled. Then it was the "that's all you want" line. She's never just touched me out of her own desire to, I've never received or given her oral sex - god knows I've tried! So I hit a wall and now as my user name suggests, I'm well and truly over it. I don't try, I don't ask, I really don't care any more. Why should I when she doesn't?
> 
> I don't feel desired, wanted or needed intimately. I could go elsewhere if it were just 'sex', but it's more than that.
> 
> To be honest - if it wasn't for our two boys because of this issue alone I would be up and gone.


I've been cut off now for 7 months and to me sexual interraction between a couple is very very important, and without it a lot of marriages just don't survive and then a man has 3 choices: to either go out and cheat - file for a seperation or divorce - or be content with masturbating for the next 20 or 30 years.


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## Overitau

Cee Paul said:


> I've been cut off now for 7 months and to me sexual interraction between a couple is very very important, and without it a lot of marriages just don't survive and then a man has 3 choices: to either go out and cheat - file for a seperation or divorce - or be content with masturbating for the next 20 or 30 years.


:iagree: I've thought about my options and you're right, there aren't many. The only other option is the regular visit to the hen-house, but as I said, it's not just the sex, it's the intimacy... Actually being wanted... can't pay for that! Which I think it can easily lead to the cheating. If you comes across someone at work or when you're out and they find you even somewhat desirable, that's going to be a big change from what's going on at home psychologically. There's that little voice over your shoulder... :FIREdevil:Here's someone who wants you, you know your wife doesn't so why not enjoy it for what it is!

I'm actually wondering when and if the day comes that she does want something from me, my initial instinct based on the way I feel would be a simple... No - while I roll over and get some :sleeping:


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## Cee Paul

Overitau said:


> :iagree: I've thought about my options and you're right, there aren't many. The only other option is the regular visit to the hen-house, but as I said, it's not just the sex, it's the intimacy... Actually being wanted... can't pay for that! Which I think it can easily lead to the cheating. If you comes across someone at work or when you're out and they find you even somewhat desirable, that's going to be a big change from what's going on at home psychologically. There's that little voice over your shoulder... :FIREdevil:Here's someone who wants you, you know your wife doesn't so why not enjoy it for what it is!
> 
> I'm actually wondering when and if the day comes that she does want something from me, my initial instinct based on the way I feel would be a simple... No - while I roll over and get some :sleeping:


I am not a cheating man and never have been, buuuut IF I was - there is a nurse that I see at work everyday named Jessica who is 36 years old and very cute and has been flirting with me for over a year now. But like I said I want no part of cheating at all and think it's pretty disrespectful and dumb no matter what the situation is, buuuuut if my wife and I were to ever split I know there are still other "options" out there(like Jessica)down the road.


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## thegatewalker

Yeah she does.


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## Overitau

Cee Paul said:


> I am not a cheating man and never have been, buuuut...


Neither am I, I was just saying I can now understand how and why it does happen. I couldn't do it, I've the two boys to think about and they outweigh anything I'm going through!


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## Cee Paul

Overitau said:


> Neither am I, I was just saying I can now understand how and why it does happen. I couldn't do it, I've the two boys to think about and they outweigh anything I'm going through!


I'm just not a good liar and couldn't live with the guilt & stress of trying to lead a double life full of lies.


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## fallingappart

:toast:Never does she. I do house work cook clean, bath the kids, do laundry, dishes and even clean the bathroom. we take turns. now i may not do it as much as she would like, and that would be every day lol but i still do. here s the kicker i was told by here to help more and i would get more. hahahah so not the case, for any of you ladies that might read this why do with hold sex as a weapon to us men. you want we give. i could be bleeding from my eye balls and still want sex. take the desire to want your partner as much as we disire to want you.
My father inlaw told my before we got married and i quote "have you ever seen a ring plug a hole, well put the ring on her finger and see how well it plugs the hole" end quote. 

cheers peeps


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## Garage_Widow

I've been initiating more and more and sometimes he actually turns me down or says he's tired. This is usually after 3 or 4 days in a row. This doesn't happen often but, when it does, it makes me feel terrible!

I remember a time when he said he wished I'd initiate more.

God's sense of humor is really warped!


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## SimplyAmorous

Garage_Widow said:


> I've been initiating more and more and sometimes he actually turns me down or says he's tired. This is usually after 3 or 4 days in a row. This doesn't happen often but, when it does, it makes me feel terrible!
> 
> I remember a time when he said he wished I'd initiate more.
> 
> God's sense of humor is really warped!


Your "*Primes*" have switched places...as his testosterone is waning a little year by year .... yours is going up (assuming you are late 30's -40's)...it surges before menopause...

I, too, feel this is a "cruel Joke" from the Creator somehow.  I had no idea men slow down as they age, till mine couldn't keep up with me & I started reading about Testosterone. 

I went to town making sure he got lots of sleep...I'd send him to bed even if we had friends at our house, started watching his diet better-he'd say I was feeding him cardboard, I relaxed that a little.... careful to give him a handful of vitamins every day, we started to exercise (got bored with that though)....and I got a whole lot more creative ~ to keep him entertained. 

Add a little novelty...surprise him, *and think mornings*...can't see him turning down a slipping under the covers with this type wake up....this is when a man's Test is the highest.


----------



## Garage_Widow

SimplyAmorous said:


> Your "*Primes*" have switched places...as his testosterone is waning a little year by year .... yours is going up (assuming you are late 30's -40's)...it surges before menopause...
> 
> I, too, feel this is a "cruel Joke" from the Creator somehow.  I had no idea men slow down as they age, till mine couldn't keep up with me & I started reading about Testosterone.
> 
> I went to town making sure he got lots of sleep...I'd send him to bed even if we had friends at our house, started watching his diet better-he'd say I was feeding him cardboard, I relaxed that a little.... careful to give him a handful of vitamins every day, we started to exercise (got bored with that though)....and I got a whole lot more creative ~ to keep him entertained.
> 
> Add a little novelty...surprise him, *and think mornings*...can't see him turning down a slipping under the covers with this type wake up....this is when a man's Test is the highest.


Thank You! I thought he'd never slow down. He was the most amorous man I'd ever known. I'm really not complaining because for the most part, we're A-OK in that department but, I don't like being turned down. I have to admit, there have been many times in the past, I've turned him down. I guess he felt the same way.
Tonight it's a full moon (and I'm a Cancerian) and we're making a fire in our back yard  OOOOOO La La!


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## SimplyAmorous

Garage_Widow said:


> I have to admit, there have been many times in the past, I've turned him down. I guess he felt the same way.


YES >>> this is how he felt, very hurtful...emotionally crushing, all of it.. When I realized how my husband felt, just imagining over the years, oh did I get worked up, I felt that "sinking feeling" that he had to have felt.. my being oblivious to his needs....I cried. I could have never put myself down like that.







.. 

I didn't even know he was hurting... I rarely rejected him, he felt rejected before he dove in many times, this didn't help... I was clueles- too into our kids... we never had one fight about it, I had to have it at least once a week though. 

Some men build a slow growing *resentment* over that ...then they might enjoy seeing those shoes on their wives feet. 

I think all women need to be clued in....before they marry -how this works...so they are there for their husbands during HIS intense need-yeah, many times a week... this keeps him closer to his wife...then when this comes upon her like a flood...hopefully he'll be happy to step up & do all he can to satisfy her as well. 

I feel the men really get jipped in this...since us women just "don't get it"...for many years. When I came into this, I felt like my mind was seriously hi-jacked....it was bad. 

Hope you get to enjoy that FULL MOON !


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## jaquen

I'm really lucky in that my wife doesn't do a lot of turning down. On the rare occasion when I really want it, and she's not up to it for whatever reason, I can get a little pissy and childish. But for the most part I handle her occasional rejections well.

But it's funny though when the shoe is on the other foot, and I turn her down, she gets all butt hurt and whiney. :rofl: I am very quick to remind her that she turns down too, and have a little fun teasing her about getting all whiney about rejection. But since I almost always buckle, even after initially telling her no, she doesn't experience rejection often.


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## Omgitsjoe

Like most husbands here I would always do the " initiating " of our intamcy. Funny the few times she had ( countable on one hand ) I do remember my Mrs always being tipsy or somewhat drunk !? 

I would attribute this to her losing her inhibitions and actually looking to get " some " or the fact she had somehow gotten extra attention from a male friend or friends while we were out partying. 

I at first thought I'd be upset but in the times this has happened she did come home with me and we always had a very passionate time !!!


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## BookOfJob

Overitau said:


> Neither am I, I was just saying I can now understand how and why it does happen. I couldn't do it, I've the two boys to think about and they outweigh anything I'm going through!


Your reasoning overrides your feeling. You are A MAN, that's why.
:smthumbup:


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

As being a woman, yes. I initiate all the time. I say it's equal pretty much. We don't really keep score. . All is good.


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## Cee Paul

I always remember that line Chris Rock said in the movie "I think I love my wife" when he said this and it's very true:

_"In a marriage or relationship once the two of you start to accept the fact there's no sex going on and it all starts to become the norm, it only gets worse & worse and before you know it neither of you wants it anymore"._


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## Overitau

Well it finally happened. She attempted to initiate after months and months of nothing... Needless to say it didn't happen - karma's a b1tch!


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## gdtm0111

Omgitsjoe - I was in the same boat. Now we rarely go out drinking together.

Again my wife rarely initiates unless she's been drinking. Most nights she's too tired anyway. Though now we have agreed to sex twice a week, and it usually takes her agreeing to it before we get into bed.


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## Chumpless

Overitau said:


> Well it finally happened. She attempted to initiate after months and months of nothing... Needless to say it didn't happen - karma's a b1tch!


Well, I hope you don't plan on her ever asking again. I bet she's pissed.


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## Omgitsjoe

gdtm0111 said:


> Omgitsjoe - I was in the same boat. Now we rarely go out drinking together.
> 
> Again my wife rarely initiates unless she's been drinking. Most nights she's too tired anyway. Though now we have agreed to sex twice a week, and it usually takes her agreeing to it before we get into bed.


It sounds as if you need to write up some kind of contract and have her sign it ....... haaaa it sucks i know and im sorry !!


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## Chumpless

Same here. Only initiates when tipsy. What's up with that? And it's always been that way, even before we were married.


----------



## Omgitsjoe

Chumpless said:


> Same here. Only initiates when tipsy. What's up with that? And it's always been that way, even before we were married.


Haaaaaa .................... makes me sometimes wonder if i should had married an alcholic  !!?? Juuuuust kidding !!!


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

I keep asking hubby to initiate. We had this discussion again yesterday. I'd like it to be equal when it comes to this.


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## 40isthenew20

Chumpless said:


> Same here. Only initiates when tipsy. What's up with that? And it's always been that way, even before we were married.


A few drinks definitely can make my wife initiate, but that kid of falls under the umbrella of when we scheduled sex anyway. We're not big drinkers and enjoy a few on the nights when we know we can have sex. 

Don't get me wrong; I love it when she makes the first move under any circumstances.


----------



## ForBetter

We both initiate, probably roughly equally.

There is a real disconnect as to when we are up for sex, which we've had to learn to work around. 

I prefer sex later in the day; I'm more likely to be in the mood after spending several hours with him on his day off, or mentally preparing for it in any other way. I rarely wake up in the mood for sex. My joints are sore on rising, and I have no desire to spend more time in bed.

He, on the other hand, has long-standing issues with ED that were only partially corrected with meds, and is most likely to be interested in sex in the morning, when his testosterone levels are up, unless he's feeling especially rested (long weekends, vacation.) His erections are just better at those times.

I used to feel frustrated that he didn't initiate at bedtime, and didn't seem especially enthusiastic if I did. Finally I realized that he just couldn't manage it physically at that time of day, and began making myself available when he is most likely to find success in getting/keeping the erection. 

He gets up too early for work for weekday morning sex, but on weekends I get up before him and shower the aches out, then come back to bed and snuggle in next to him, and that gets his engine going.

If he's feeling rested and frisky at other times during the week, he initiates.

Basically we both try to cater to each other's weaknesses rather than demanding what the other can't comfortably provide. This way neither of us feels either overextended or deprived.


----------



## Happily Married Guy

I would say she initiates 1 out of 10 times. I used to get pissed about it but have learned to accept it and am OK with initiating most of the time. With work and kids it's hard enough to find a decent amount of time to do it and the frequency has dropped off over the last couple of years but when we have it, it's great. 

I would like it more often but I wouldn't say my drive is a lot more than hers, she still gets worked up pretty quickly and is open to new ideas. She broke the ice on the toy front a couple of years ago, I never expected she would be into that. 

The biggest issue I have is we seam out of sync lately and one of us will be ready to go and the other isn't. That's been our biggest issue lately. I'm hoping it's just a phase and we can get through it. Neither of us will really pressure the other to have sex if they don't want it. 

I must admit though I do love it when she is all worked up and just jumps on me. Makes for a good time!


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## Overitau

Chumpless said:


> Well, I hope you don't plan on her ever asking again. I bet she's pissed.


To be honest - no. I don't plan on asking and I'm all the happier for it. :smthumbup: I slept like a log that night.... :sleeping:


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## hjones1971

I've been reading through all these post and in the same situation where my woman wont initiate as well...the reason I fell here reading this is looking for a solution to help us out...I've been on several different sites and probably read enough comments to drive anyone crazy....Sadly enough after reading an insane amount of comments it almost leads me to believe that I would be better off as a single guy just going and trying to get laid every once in awhile...or have a mistress on the side....I don't encourage that type of behavior and not trying to lead towards it....but you have guys literally begging their women to initiate sex and the most common answer is....Hey if you cook , clean, give her a massage, take her out to dinner, give her flowers, give her subtle kisses, cuddle without having sex,etc... then YOU MIGHT get sex as a treat...a sort of reward...and then if you stray she will wonder why? hmmmmmm
Why can't it be each person initiate at least somewhat equally?
its not that I even want my woman to initiate all the time...its just every once in awhile take charge....
sadly enough my conclusion is to find another woman


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## Confused42

My husband used to say that I didnt initiate sex. however each time I tried I got rejected by him. He was either too tired or not in the mood. I would go outta my way to make the evening special. Candles etc. 

Seems like the harder I tried the more he rejected me. But he still complains that I do initiate sex. If I ask him what he wants in bed he says it doesnt matter he will go for anything. Says he has no fantasies to be fulfilled.


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## Overitau

Confused42 said:


> If I ask him what he wants in bed he says it doesnt matter he will go for anything. Says he has no fantasies to be fulfilled.


Okay.... maybe it does go both ways. A man with no fantasies? I'd call him 'Tin Man'
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## In Absentia

My wife has initiated sex twice in 27 years...


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## jaquen

In Absentia said:


> My wife has initiated sex twice in 27 years...


Are you OK with that?


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## In Absentia

jaquen said:


> Are you OK with that?


of course I would like her to take the initiative a little more often than every couple of centuries, but it never happens. I'm ok with it, as long as we have sex...  Could be worse...


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## Jakobi Greenleaf

Mrs. Greenleaf might initiate sex three times out of a hundred. To her credit, the last time we had sex, she started it. And by my count it was a day sooner then I would've asked. I don't mind having to initiate. I would only mind being turned down, and we have made substantial progress on that front.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Toffer

Sex?

What's that???


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## daemonfox

I never thought my wife was like other women, she is vibrant, beautiful, intelligent and well spoken. When we met, and all through our relationship, I have never come across another like her.

With that said, I am speechless how this thread has her pegged like 99% of the wives being described here... and it saddens me.

It has been at least 6 years since my wife has initiated sex with me... and I dare go a bit further... at least that long since she has even shown me any affection without me making a move first.

I used to do all the things the other threads suggested... I did dishes, I still do our laundry, I cooked even after I got home from work right as it was time to eat, I take care of her pet that she owned before we even met (grooming, baths, feeding, walking etc all on me), I used to bring her random flowers I found or saw and bought, where I worked we always had lavish banquets for customers and we would get the coolest table items, and I would always bring her some so she could use them for crafts, like metal mesh heart containers, glass vases shaped like hearts and animals, always bought her fav chocolates (Godivas dark chocolate truffles) and other little treats I know she loves (Hostess CupCakes RIP).

I will admit, 6 years ago we became pregnant with our first child, a boy, and she has been a stay at home mom since then. I know that is tough... especially since she is more educated than I am, but I am so technically inclined that I was earning more than she was. But, she never cared about that, so she says. Now after 6 years, and two more girls, things are worse than ever and I am now at such a low point that I have started to slip.

We have tried to discuss this, make changes... talk but I am already past the line of patience... I can't stand to say or hear the same things repeated over and over again. I am a find a solution and implement it kind of guy... hence why I make a good living in IT and support us by myself.

There are a few other things to factor in, we have moved several times because of life issues and work... I recently moved us from FL to NC as I took a new promotion within my company. Now, we live nowhere near any of her family, and that just added to it.

Now, I have fallen into my own depression and I do not even want to be bothered with the rejection. I don't even ask anymore, I stopped touching her as much, and I have reduced the amount of affection I show... and all of that has happened without me even realizing it until I read all these posts. I have even sunk back into smoking, and not tobacco either... herbal incense... mostly because it just dulls the mental anguish and physical needs away... mostly... because it can never say no.

Recently, she found out I was smoking and she expressed how hurt she felt, she asked why... and for the life of me, I couldn't answer her because it felt like I was blaming her when I thought about what I wanted to say.

I am at an impasse here and now, I have told her I smoke because it keeps my mind level, and helps me cope with what I am dealing with, but all she has to say in response when I detail what that means, is she is tired, exhausted, depressed and feels unhappy with herself image. I remind her how I have tried to help in the past but she acts as if she does not want my help, or despises how I try to handle it because I do not understand her depression.

Now, she tells me it is my fault because I do not do things like kiss her when I leave at 5 AM or when I come home, or that I do not buy her things or try to spend time with her. I have countered that I DID do those things and I got the same result each time, and that she can't blame me for not showing affection when it is never shown in return or that she hasn't done that herself in over 6 years. Is it my RESPONSIBILITY to make sure she gets a kiss when I leave and come home? Why? She never comes to me to give them... so why the hypocrisy?

I expressed that while I know I love her and she loves me, I would rather hide downstairs at night and smoke/play games on my PC than deal with rejection and resent. Again, two things that never say no.

Am I a bad husband for this?. I have traveled from one end of the spectrum to the other and can't get any results... from smothering her with all the things she loves, to basically ignoring everything except what has to be taken care of... and I have nothing to show for it except debt, grief, heart ache and three beautiful children. What am i supposed to do? I come from a broken home and so does she, and I will not put my children through that, yet is it ok to subject them to our problems?

Is there even a right answer to this problem?

I normally would not post such things online... in my profession, I know better... but I hit the wall, and I can only stare at it for so long before I will just RPG it and move on... progress must be made and I have a career and three children to continue raising.


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## Caribbean Man

Daemon,
I read your post and it sounds like you are really frustrated.
There might not be any easy solution to this.
But if you want to find out exactly what's happening, there are a few things you need to do.
Firstly you should rule out medications. They could have a negative side effect on some people's libido.
Have you mentioned therapy to her? If she is willing to try therapy to deal with the issue , then that may be a good sign and it should help.
No doubt that baby and the moving experience as well as other factors may also be affecting her negatively.
But ultimately, she needs to take her share of responsibility, because your needs are not being fulfilled.
If all else fails , then you might have to take drastic action.


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## walkingwounded

I am the wife, and I never initiate sex.

Why?

I used to be the opposite. I used to be sexually confident and had no issues whatsoever with initiating. I would say for most of our marriage initiating was split pretty much equally.

H went through a phase last year for about six months of turning me down flat. We were not sexless by any means, as he continued to initiate as before. However he started to repeatedly reject me, giving various reasons and being very cutting with it.

Both at the time and even now coming up to a year later, he denies doing this at all and has stated I have imagined it/ made it up in my head. It took such a toll on my esteem and confidence that I put my foot down and told him straight I was not going to initiate any more because I could not deal with the rejection.

So for the last eight months I have not really initiated. I say "really" as there has been a handfull of times I indirectly initiated. By that I mean being teasing or flirty in that I am putting it out there that it is what I would like, but not *so* directly that he can turn around and say "no." That way if he does not take me up on it, I have not had a blatant NO and it hurts less.

The sexual dynamic is *way* different that ever before. He has never *ever* brought up me not initiating since this all happened. There was a comment not long ago where he said he wished I would be a bit more forward when it comes to initiating, basically said he wishes I would talk dirty to entice him. If it wasn't so sensitive for me I would have laughed out loud at the thought he thinks it is fine to bring my esteem down to rock bottom then expect me to come up with different ways of initiating WHEN I HAVEN'T INITIATED FOR MONTHS BECAUSE OF HIM AND HE HASN'T DONE A DARN THING ABOUT IT!

I am working on my esteem on my own and making progress on my journey. My perspective is changing as is how I handle all this. I do feel sad he cannot offer me the affirmation I need to build up what he broke down. I do know that I can still feel good about myself even if I doubt how he feels about me.


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## committed4ever

Question for you men: 

What is initiating?

I try to initiate with sexy lingerie. He usually takes that off in 20 seconds or less and that's the end of my initiation and he has taken over. I've even tried to surprise him by being in the kitchen cooking in lingerie when he gets home, and demurely told him in my sexiest voice that he doesn't get to take it off until dinner's ready. He quickly turned off all the burners and put me on top of the kitchen counter and that was that. 

Same with touching when we get in bed. He instantly takes over and again it becomes him who is the initiator. Now, don't get me wrong, I don't mind that he takes over. But what that tells me is he always wants to be the initiator. Fine by me! Doesn't matter who starts it as long as we both finish. LOL! But if he EVER brings it up that I never initiate, I'm going to be seriously ticked off.


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## NewHubs

Yes, my wife initiates by walking around in a thong. She knows I always give in. She does other cute things but this one is my favorite.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Code-Welder

committed4ever said:


> Question for you men:
> 
> What is initiating?
> 
> I try to initiate with sexy lingerie. He usually takes that off in 20 seconds or less and that's the end of my initiation and he has taken over. I've even tried to surprise him by being in the kitchen cooking in lingerie when he gets home, and demurely told him in my sexiest voice that he doesn't get to take it off until dinner's ready. He quickly turned off all the burners and put me on top of the kitchen counter and that was that.
> 
> Same with touching when we get in bed. He instantly takes over and again it becomes him who is the initiator. Now, don't get me wrong, I don't mind that he takes over. But what that tells me is he always wants to be the initiator. Fine by me! Doesn't matter who starts it as long as we both finish. LOL! But if he EVER brings it up that I never initiate, I'm going to be seriously ticked off.


When he has taken over and there is something you want to do different initiate it. Tell him to lay back and relax you want to service him. Tell him you want to pleasure him, and then wink at him.

Then take your time, rub his thighs and work over his package, don't just start the BJ right away. Many women miss the part that men often like the whole package licked and rubbed. Some men even like a little or a lot of anal stimulation. Just rubbing in between scrotum and anus can excite some men.

If he tries to take control to soon just softly nudge him back on his back and tell him you are not done playing. He maybe programed to thinking he has to be in control, but sometimes when encouraged to relax and let a wife take control men will and then enjoy it a lot.

A BJ to wake him in the morning is not a bad idea either.


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## Tall Average Guy

daemonfox said:


> I used to do all the things the other threads suggested... I did dishes, I still do our laundry, I cooked even after I got home from work right as it was time to eat, I take care of her pet that she owned before we even met (grooming, baths, feeding, walking etc all on me), I used to bring her random flowers I found or saw and bought, where I worked we always had lavish banquets for customers and we would get the coolest table items, and I would always bring her some so she could use them for crafts, like metal mesh heart containers, glass vases shaped like hearts and animals, always bought her fav chocolates (Godivas dark chocolate truffles) and other little treats I know she loves (Hostess CupCakes RIP).


Women don't like the hired help. Consider that you turned yourself into that.



> Am I a bad husband for this?. I have traveled from one end of the spectrum to the other and can't get any results... from smothering her with all the things she loves, to basically ignoring everything except what has to be taken care of... and I have nothing to show for it except debt, grief, heart ache and three beautiful children. What am i supposed to do? I come from a broken home and so does she, *and I will not put my children through that,* yet is it ok to subject them to our problems?


And the above in bold dooms you. She likely understands that nothing will change. As for subjecting your kids to divorce, you are currently teaching them about marriage. Do you want this type of marriage for your son or daughter? Because you are teaching them that this is normal.

While doing the things that CM suggested, you need to work on yourself. Get your happiness from her and disconnect a bit. Read No More Mr. Nice Guy and see where this applies to you. There are also some good ideas in the Married Man's Sex Life. Not all are applicable, but see what fits for you.


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## 2ntnuf

turnera said:


> As with everything, it's all about balance. If BOTH people are honestly stopping and thinking about the other person, and not just being selfish, but rather caring about the other and wanting to improve their marriage, they will find ways so that both people get what they want.
> 
> In all the threads I've read over the last 10 years or so, at least 80%-90% of the women who have left their husband have left because they tell their husband what they are missing in the marriage, and the husband ignores what they say and continues to do what he is doing. Until the wife falls out of love with him (since he is not attempting to meet her needs), and leaves. Typically after the kids graduate.
> 
> And then the husband comes online and pleads for help, how to get his wife to love him again. Most times, it's too late; she's waited and waited and waited, and finally hardened her heart to him.
> 
> IMO, it's because men are raised by women. Who DO take care of all their needs. So they expect their wife to do the same thing. They marry a woman for sex, for a family, but also for a mother.
> 
> For the record, out of all the threads I've read, maybe 20% of them include a husband like you describe - who does housework, puts the same amount of time into raising the kids as the wife, and makes an effort to have regular conversations.


This is a great post. I wanted to add that many men don't know when their wives are telling them what they need. It's like men aren't taught by the very women who raised them and didn't get their own needs met in many cases, how to do the most important things that make them happy as a woman. 

I find that very odd, that they are raising children to meet life's needs, and want them to be successful adults. At least a primer, would have been great. Thank goodness for posts like this.


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## 2ntnuf

turnera said:


> Here's what other places say. You choose the household things that mean the most to you. If dirty dishes bugs you, and your wife never notices them, YOU take on the dishes. Do that with all the chores. The things she cares about, she is assigned. There has to be SOMETHING she cares about in the house; she can't be a total slob.
> 
> fwiw, she stops doing things because she KNOWS you will do it for her. I had a friend whose younger sister consistently did her chores 'wrong' because she knew their mother would make my friend take over that chore. She ended up doing everything, and the sister laughed at her.
> 
> This isn't about what you KNOW she will or won't do. It's about what SHE knows she can get you to do.
> 
> Stop babying her. TELL her things are going to change, and she and you WILL sit down and draw up a chore chart.
> 
> Start with her laundry. Shopping for her items. Anything that's hers, you no longer touch.


This is the second time I've read you suggesting a chore chart. I agree with this. I also agree that babying is what reinforces bad behavior. 

I was the one who was being babied. I knew it. I knew it was killing me and our marriage. I asked for the chart, although I didn't call it that, when she came to me about sharing more household work. I told her it would make it easier if I had a list and could work from that. She'd have her things, and I'd have mine. I could help and do her's when she couldn't, but I would expect we did our own, on a regular basis. I saw not reason that was unfair. 

She refused. She told me we should just do things that we saw needed done. I agree with that, when possible. It wasn't for me, because I had gotten out of the habit of doing those things regularly. I needed the chore chart. 

What can possibly be done in those circumstances?


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## Marduk

2ntnuf said:


> I needed the chore chart.
> 
> What can possibly be done in those circumstances?


Make your own. Tell her these are the jobs you plan on getting done regularly.

Then go get those done.

Leave her to the rest.


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## Married but Happy

My wife initiates about half the time, maybe more. And she is full of surprises and very spontaneous.

Yesterday, I was expecting nothing (Wednesdays are usually very rough, stressful days for her), but when she got home she was perky and playful. She wanted dessert before dinner, and I was dessert - with whipped cream, even!


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## 2ntnuf

marduk said:


> Make your own. Tell her these are the jobs you plan on getting done regularly.
> 
> Then go get those done.
> 
> Leave her to the rest.


You know why I didn't? Because she fought me on it and made me feel ashamed for not being up to snuff, so to speak. You "should" style statements. Shaming remarks. 

I guess I'm not the only man who has been in this boat. Boundaries. I had them, but didn't enforce them.


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## Marduk

2ntnuf said:


> You know why I didn't? Because she fought me on it and made me feel ashamed for not being up to snuff, so to speak. You "should" style statements. Shaming remarks.
> 
> I guess I'm not the only man who has been in this boat. Boundaries. I had them, but didn't enforce them.


And you listen why?

Next time she tries to shame you for being a man and getting your crap done, smirk, look at her like she's just a little girl, and walk away.

"You should vacuum more..." response: "You should bend over more..."

"You didn't do the dishes..." response: "You didn't do me..."

Etc.

Give amused mastery and confidence a try. Don't let her get you emotional.


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## 2ntnuf

marduk said:


> And you listen why?
> 
> Next time she tries to shame you for being a man and getting your crap done, smirk, look at her like she's just a little girl, and walk away.
> 
> "You should vacuum more..." response: "You should bend over more..."
> 
> "You didn't do the dishes..." response: "You didn't do me..."
> 
> Etc.
> 
> Give amused mastery and confidence a try. Don't let her get you emotional.


Thank you. I want to let you know that I am divorced. However, it's time to fix me. I will eventually, be in this position again. Married? I doubt it. I don't want to be alone, though.


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## jorgegene

My wife initiates sex most of the time.

I hope she never stops.


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## Ditch

My wife never has and most likely never will, I have given up. I don't when she wants to and doesn't tell me what she wants. I have gotten the cold shoulder so many times, I stopped trying period. We did it once in the last six months and twice in the last year. I used to massage her feet, back, but that has stopped. Ladies, this is why some men decide to have affairs. You need emotion, we need physical desire.


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## DoF

Not sure if I replied here before.

Of course she does, all the time and more so than I do.


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## jerry123

Ok, been a long road for me but my wife does now 75% of time and we average 2x a week. On a vaca alone it's double that. 

Implemented MMSLP, lost 22 lbs and lift everyday. 

I would suggest every guy in a sexless marriage to get lean and build muscle. At the same time just let them come to you. They will...

Once they see you getting attention from other woman that may also kickstart things. 

I swear women have this sense where they know when to start putting more effort into sex part of marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anonymous07

I always initiated sex with my husband and got denied time after time after time, so the amount of initiating I did after a while diminished a lot(to basically zero, what was the point if he would only say no). We're at a point now where I am just starting to feel more comfortable again and will occasionally initiate, but it is taking some time for me to get back to where I was before.


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## Marduk

Ditch said:


> My wife never has and most likely never will, I have given up. I don't when she wants to and doesn't tell me what she wants. I have gotten the cold shoulder so many times, I stopped trying period. We did it once in the last six months and twice in the last year. I used to massage her feet, back, but that has stopped. Ladies, this is why some men decide to have affairs. You need emotion, we need physical desire.


What's your % bodyfat?

Do you bring home good coin?

Do you act confidently?

Do you get hit on/attention from other women?

Do you dress well? (ask a woman you know, don't take your own word for this one)

Do you get your crap done at home?

How's the hygine?

I was amazed how much dropping 25-30lbs of fat, adding 20lbs of lean muscle, dressing well, and watching my appearance turned around our sex life...

BTW she swears to this day that "none of that stuff matters!"

Of course baby, of course.


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## ET1SSJonota

I think a key here that is missing, and it has been mentioned a few times, is what is "initiating"? I think the "real" answer to this is some action, be it indirect or direct, that keys the SO into feeling desired. 

In my marriage, most of the posters would consider my wife to initiate somewhat frequently. However, she very rarely comes at the initiation from an angle of her personal desire - it comes from either a general desire for her to get off (aka I'm irrelevant to the task at hand, but conveniently present), or as something to appease me.

I'm with several of the other posters who have said that if I don't feel desired, this is generically bad sex (although unless I've been oversexed recently, I'll take it). It leaves one feeling undesired and unfulfilled. 

On another note, I absolutely HATE seeing all of the comments about "just do X, Y, and Z extra chores and she'll be all over you". Erroneous. In mine, and clearly several others' experience, these complaints are smokescreens for whatever the real reason for denial is. All the extra chores will do is get added to the list of things you're "supposed" to do. Meanwhile, the grievance list will always be one angry word away to strike you down with.


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## gdtm0111

Smokescreen is definitely the right word for it. I swear we would rarely have sex if I didn't ask. Oh I've done the weights and other BS, and it got me no where.


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## ChargingCharlie

Never. She's too busy being stressed out over the kids, stressed out over what her drama queen sister is bugging her about, and staying up all night playing computer games. Sex is never on her radar, which is why we've only had sex three times in the past four years. 

I would initiate, but when I'm constantly hearing about how tired she is and how sex is just too much work, there's no point.


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## Marduk

DO NOT GO DOWN THE EXTRA CHORES ROUTE.

This has proven to be 100% erroneous in both my personal experimentation and in recent literature.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/09/magazine/does-a-more-equal-marriage-mean-less-sex.html?_r=0

I'm not saying to not get your stuff done... get the manly stuff done and leave her to the rest.


----------



## Marduk

ChargingCharlie said:


> Never. She's too busy being stressed out over the kids, stressed out over what her drama queen sister is bugging her about, and staying up all night playing computer games. Sex is never on her radar, which is why we've only had sex three times in the past four years.
> 
> I would initiate, but when I'm constantly hearing about how tired she is and how sex is just too much work, there's no point.


100% BS. She's not too tired to get caught up in her sister's drama, and she's not too tired to stay up all night playing video games.

90% odds she's not attracted to you.

Sex 3x in 4 years is technically a sexless marriage, and in my opinion abusive. Unless you deserve it.

I would respond pretty much by getting in shape, getting your stuff done your way, dressing well, and being out a lot.

Let her see you get hot and get hit on and worry what you're up to all night while she's playing video games.


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## Marduk

gdtm0111 said:


> Smokescreen is definitely the right word for it. I swear we would rarely have sex if I didn't ask. Oh I've done the weights and other BS, and it got me no where.


What would you say is the problem from her perspective?

Do you get hit on by other women?


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## firebelly1

ET1SSJonota said:


> I think a key here that is missing, and it has been mentioned a few times, is what is "initiating"? I think the "real" answer to this is some action, be it indirect or direct, that keys the SO into feeling desired.


I'm interested in this question too - what do men consider "initiation"? In my marriage I did things that I thought were clear indications that I would like to have sex and it never worked. I wasn't doing it in the "right" way or the "right" time of day. When I asked him to tell me the right ways and the right times of day, those things didn't help. He still said "no." Once I greeted him at the door with nothing on but an apron. After a kiss he said "When's dinner?" Then went upstairs to go on the computer. I spent years thinking there must be a "right" way to initiate that either he couldn't articulate or I couldn't figure out but I concluded in the end that he just didn't like me to initiate.


----------



## ET1SSJonota

firebelly1 said:


> I'm interested in this question too - what do men consider "initiation"? In my marriage I did things that I thought were clear indications that I would like to have sex and it never worked. I wasn't doing it in the "right" way or the "right" time of day. When I asked him to tell me the right ways and the right times of day, those things didn't help. He still said "no." Once I greeted him at the door with nothing on but an apron. After a kiss he said "When's dinner?" Then went upstairs to go on the computer. I spent years thinking there must be a "right" way to initiate that either he couldn't articulate or I couldn't figure out but I concluded in the end that he just didn't like me to initiate.


I'd say naked with nothing but an apron on would be pretty good - provided of course when he approached you to take you you didn't withdraw. Then again, my wife has spent an entire day outside, topless, and then didn't want to do anything. Different strokes and all.

I think one of the common "oops" things for women if they are truly trying to show their man he is wanted is the questions. "Do you want me to xyz?", etc. Makes it feel like it's just some elaborated duty material, not because YOU want it. Either clear statements of desire from you, or even better, ACTION. Go for what you want, surrender to your pure desire, get "worked up" and SHOW that to him. 

In the end, there are some partners that will just never be satisfied and will make up their own rationalizations. I worry about that for myself with the minimal complaints that I have. I try to give her credit for the things she does - like clearly initiating last night (but after 4 days of relatively ignoring me physically and a epic rejection just before that). How was it clearly initiating? She approached me, and took what she wanted. Occasionally.. we like feeling "used".


----------



## firebelly1

ET1SSJonota said:


> I'd say naked with nothing but an apron on would be pretty good - provided of course when he approached you to take you you didn't withdraw. Then again, my wife has spent an entire day outside, topless, and then didn't want to do anything. Different strokes and all.
> 
> I think one of the common "oops" things for women if they are truly trying to show their man he is wanted is the questions. "Do you want me to xyz?", etc. Makes it feel like it's just some elaborated duty material, not because YOU want it. Either clear statements of desire from you, or even better, ACTION. Go for what you want, surrender to your pure desire, get "worked up" and SHOW that to him.
> 
> In the end, there are some partners that will just never be satisfied and will make up their own rationalizations. I worry about that for myself with the minimal complaints that I have. I try to give her credit for the things she does - like clearly initiating last night (but after 4 days of relatively ignoring me physically and a epic rejection just before that). How was it clearly initiating? She approached me, and took what she wanted. Occasionally.. we like feeling "used".


Nope, I didn't withdraw. He was the one that pulled away. If I tried to just "take what I wanted" he would get mad. Tell me to stop pawing him. I knew it wasn't libido. He masturbated to porn nearly every day.


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## ET1SSJonota

firebelly1 said:


> Nope, I didn't withdraw. He was the one that pulled away. If I tried to just "take what I wanted" he would get mad. Tell me to stop pawing him. I knew it wasn't libido. He masturbated to porn nearly every day.


Sounds like an entirely different issue than "you don't initiate". So don't accept that line - reject the projection. The willingness to do things like the apron act is a wonderful thing to give a partner - all GOOD men should be so lucky! I'll go ahead and thank you for your effort, in his stead!


----------



## firebelly1

Thank you! Maybe this is obvious, but would MOST men react positively if you initiated by pawing his junk? That's how I would typically be inclined to initiate.


----------



## 2ntnuf

Depends on the look on your face and the sounds you make. An, "I want you, need you, have to have you, you're the only one who can quench my desire look, would be great in combination. If you were like mine, and just did it in passing, it's not as much of a turn-on. 

At least for me, anyway.


----------



## firebelly1

2ntnuf said:


> Depends on the look on your face and the sounds you make. An, "I want you, need you, have to have you, you're the only one who can quench my desire look, would be great in combination. If you were like mine, and just did it in passing, it's not as much of a turn-on.
> 
> At least for me, anyway.


How does one just do that in passing? I may be pretending to do it in passing but I'm WELL aware of how it will affect him and do it hoping he will chase me, i.e. a tease. I would think a woman avoiding sex would avoid touching you there for fear of sending out the "wrong" signals.


----------



## ET1SSJonota

firebelly1 said:


> Thank you! Maybe this is obvious, but would MOST men react positively if you initiated by pawing his junk? That's how I would typically be inclined to initiate.


Maybe I'm not sure what you mean by "pawing at". In my case, it takes about 2 seconds for her to have it in her hands, then it's something I would describe as other than "pawing". So pawing is cupping it? Or lightly slapping it? 

I'm not sure you'll get what you're wanting here, as an addiction to porn that is costing sexual energy you'd like to be spent on you is an entirely different realm. I feel for you here too, as I have been in the EXACT same boat. Just know that it doesn't have to be like that forever.


----------



## 2ntnuf

firebelly1 said:


> How does one just do that in passing? I may be pretending to do it in passing but I'm WELL aware of how it will affect him and do it hoping he will chase me, i.e. a tease. I would think a woman avoiding sex would avoid touching you there for fear of sending out the "wrong" signals.


Walk past and grab your d**k.

This was not an accusation. I have no idea what you do. It's how I perceived her touching me in that way. 

I forget to put things in context. When I was married, what was mine was her's and vice versa. So, a touch in passing did not mean she wanted sex, to me, but just that she was checking what was, "her's". We did tend to touch each other without or at least I thought, without necessarily wanting to have sex right there and then.


----------



## firebelly1

ET1SSJonota said:


> Maybe I'm not sure what you mean by "pawing at". In my case, it takes about 2 seconds for her to have it in her hands, then it's something I would describe as other than "pawing". So pawing is cupping it? Or lightly slapping it?
> 
> I'm not sure you'll get what you're wanting here, as an addiction to porn that is costing sexual energy you'd like to be spent on you is an entirely different realm. I feel for you here too, as I have been in the EXACT same boat. Just know that it doesn't have to be like that forever.


By "pawing" I mean touching / cradling / lightly squeezing in a way that I know will turn him on but not hurt him. 

The man I refer to is my stbxh so it won't be like that forever for me, but I am gun-shy now about initiating in general not ever having gotten to the bottom of things.


----------



## firebelly1

2ntnuf said:


> Walk past and grab your d**k.
> 
> This was not an accusation. I have no idea what you do. It's how I perceived her touching me in that way.
> 
> I forget to put things in context. When I was married, what was mine was her's and vice versa. So, a touch in passing did not mean she wanted sex, to me, but just that she was checking what was, "her's". We did tend to touch each other without or at least I thought, without necessarily wanting to have sex right there and then.


I didn't feel accused. I was just curious. 

I can see what you're saying. Most of the time when I was pawing his junk it wasn't in passing. We would be watching t.v. and I would reach over and start fondling him. Or I would go in while he was on the computer, stand behind him and reach down to fondle his junk. Those to me seemed pretty overtly an initiation of sex. It would annoy him. 

Now...I can see someone saying "Well, he's busy and you're interrupting him." But the thing was, he spent the majority of his time at home on the computer. There was very little opportunity for me to initiate when he wasn't on the computer or watching t.v. Which might lead one to conclude that there are bigger problems there than the whole sex thing...


----------



## ET1SSJonota

firebelly1 said:


> ... I would think a woman avoiding sex would avoid touching you there for fear of sending out the "wrong" signals.
> 
> ...but I am gun-shy now about initiating in general not ever having gotten to the bottom of things


You'd *think* that someone avoiding sex would do that, but I've had numerous rubs/caresses up to partial bj's that ended right there with no encore, sometimes for days. So it doesn't always follow that it means ANYTHING. (That's not to say you can't tease and wait til that evening... just don't tease TOO long!)

And for the love of all that is holy, DON'T let some POS ruin it and make you shy. A REAL man that is into wants his woman into him JUST as you describe. In short: keep being awesome - you're ditching this guy for a reason!


----------



## firebelly1

ET1SSJonota said:


> You'd *think* that someone avoiding sex would do that, but I've had numerous rubs/caresses up to partial bj's that ended right there with no encore, sometimes for days. So it doesn't always follow that it means ANYTHING. (That's not to say you can't tease and wait til that evening... just don't tease TOO long!)
> 
> And for the love of all that is holy, DON'T let some POS ruin it and make you shy. A REAL man that is into wants his woman into him JUST as you describe. In short: keep being awesome - you're ditching this guy for a reason!


Thanks! That makes me feel better.


----------



## 2ntnuf

firebelly1 said:


> I didn't feel accused. I was just curious.
> 
> I can see what you're saying. Most of the time when I was pawing his junk it wasn't in passing. We would be watching t.v. and I would reach over and start fondling him. Or I would go in while he was on the computer, stand behind him and reach down to fondle his junk. Those to me seemed pretty overtly an initiation of sex. It would annoy him.
> 
> Now...I can see someone saying "Well, he's busy and you're interrupting him." But the thing was, he spent the majority of his time at home on the computer. There was very little opportunity for me to initiate when he wasn't on the computer or watching t.v. Which might lead one to conclude that there are bigger problems there than the whole sex thing...


I keep thinking, everytime I've read the sex is not good, it's not the fault of the husband or wife of the LD partner, but only in some cases. It seems, when I have read this, and even in my own situation, it really was something else or a combination of something elses(hahaha crappy grammar). 

If he was on the computer and television, he was having issues with opening up to anyone. It likely is some mental disorder that he does not like to be open and in the scrutiny of others. I'm not diagnosing something. I just read what you wrote to mean, he has some emotional/mental issues. 

I am guessing he hates to be in public or in crowds where he doesn't know very many people. He has trouble mixing. I am guessing here, so take this with a grain of salt, or a pound.


----------



## 2ntnuf

ET1SSJonota said:


> You'd *think* that someone avoiding sex would do that, but I've had numerous rubs/caresses up to partial bj's that ended right there with no encore, sometimes for days. So it doesn't always follow that it means ANYTHING. (That's not to say you can't tease and wait til that evening... just don't tease TOO long!)
> 
> And for the love of all that is holy, DON'T let some POS ruin it and make you shy. A REAL man that is into wants his woman into him JUST as you describe. In short: keep being awesome - you're ditching this guy for a reason!


I have to agree. Especially with the second paragraph. He has to fix him. You can't, unfortunately, since I can see it has harmed you, firebelly1. I'm sorry that you are hurting.

Keep going. You will find that other men won't react the same way. Sometimes, it's not worth all the work and you have to cut your losses and move on. 

Much greater happiness is right around the corner.


----------



## firebelly1

Yep 2 - you are spot on. Our marriage counselor said he basically doesn't know how to relate to other people in general and so I shouldn't take any of it personally. Easier said than done.


----------



## ET1SSJonota

firebelly1 said:


> Yep 2 - you are spot on. Our marriage counselor said he basically doesn't know how to relate to other people in general and so I shouldn't take any of it personally. Easier said than done.


Again right there with you. One of the things that I have tried to focus on (and Racer helped me with), is trying to focus on a foundational perspective that is based on what *I* know about ME. Not how "someone else" makes me feel. 

I know right where you are at in a lot of ways. My first wife and I divorced due to her deciding that she was a lesbian. That's a pretty hard blow for a guy who has been with her for 7 years to take... and in some ways it haunts me today. I also have a wife who is hot and cold with me, which makes me question all sorts of aspects of our relationship. The key to minimizing my own pain is to recognize that these don't reflect on ME, they reflect on those people. 

Go another route: is Jennifer Aniston crap because Brad Pitt chose another? NOPE. Tons of examples out there - the one you had chosen simply didn't fit and didn't know how to appreciate/show appreciation for what you were doing. Doesn't mean you did ANYTHING wrong. Don't temper who YOU are based on what someone that is clearly incompatible with you did/said/whatever. As we've pointed out... you were doing it right!


----------



## 2ntnuf

firebelly1 said:


> Yep 2 - you are spot on. Our marriage counselor said he basically doesn't know how to relate to other people in general and so I shouldn't take any of it personally. Easier said than done.


It will be easier when you get divorced, take on the personality of a single woman who is confident in herself and knows what she wants and goes after it. 

I'm sure you will do well. You'll see how mistaken he was, soon enough. He'll realize the opportunities he missed. You will do well.


----------



## tommyr

Runs like Dog said:


> I told her I am finished with the sex 'thing' forever and she needn't worry about when or if I'm going to beg or ask or anything. We are done with any physical relations forever.


Proceed directly to the sexless marriage threads and learn how to deal with this situation before it gets to late.


----------



## Runs like Dog

tommyr said:


> Proceed directly to the sexless marriage threads and learn how to deal with this situation before it gets to late.


It's been a quarter century, give or take. We're done done done done. We live together only part time now - effectively separated in different homes.


----------



## stupidman

t_hopper_2012 said:


> A few of points:
> 3. I once read something that I'll paraphrase here: "With men, sex leads to closeness; with women, closeness leads to sex".


Chicken or the egg? This is the exact argument that my wife and I have had for I can't even count how many years. Of course, it relates more to the frequency of sex than to the question of who initiates it but the 2 things are related. I get frustrated that she won't initiate and stop for a while, which usually leads to less sex. After a week goes by things just get awkward to the point that neither of us will initiate and weeks will go by without sex. 

As to the frequency of sex, she contends that if I took her out more, paid her more attention, etc. that I would get more sex and I contend that if I got more sex I would want to take her out more, etc. etc. Chicken or the egg? Someone has to make the first move, right? Why should it always be me? 

I don't understand why some posters say things along the lines of "be a man, take what you want, blah blah blah". Roles have changed dramatically over the years. You can't say you want a caring man who cooks, cleans, takes care of the kids, and is sensitive to your needs and not accept the fact that he is sensitive in bed. If my wife turns me down, or doesn't initiate sex, it hurts my feelings plain and simple. Doesn't make me less of a man. I lead in all aspects of my life, including the bedroom when things do happen. I don't think it is too much to ask that she initiate every once in a while. 1 out of 15 times would be fine with me. Sometimes you want to feel like THE man. Does she really think I enjoy the act of massaging her back? No, I enjoy the fact that I am making her happy. Not too much to ask her to return the favor, right? 

BTW, I share all household chores with my wife, I do all of my own laundry including ironing, etc., I cook dinner more often than she does. I love to talk and will carry on any conversation she wishes (except when I am bitter about the lack of sex, then I can just get distant). I have never cheated. I have never even flirted with another girl. Hell, I look away when there is nudity on TV. I compliment here excessively. I keep up with my appearances and look mostly the same as I did 19 years ago when we were married (less muscle tone but roughly the same size). She has a much less demanding job than I do and works from home 2-3 days a week. 

Even though I am pushing 40, I am ready to go at least 3 times a week. Our current pace is once in the last 4 months :-(. Before that time it was maybe twice a month. I am kind of done at this point, but I will save that part of the story for a different thread. 

Men are so easy to please, so why is it so hard?


----------



## 3kgtmitsu

stupidman said:


> Chicken or the egg? This is the exact argument that my wife and I have had for I can't even count how many years. Of course, it relates more to the frequency of sex than to the question of who initiates it but the 2 things are related. I get frustrated that she won't initiate and stop for a while, which usually leads to less sex. After a week goes by things just get awkward to the point that neither of us will initiate and weeks will go by without sex.
> 
> As to the frequency of sex, she contends that if I took her out more, paid her more attention, etc. that I would get more sex and I contend that if I got more sex I would want to take her out more, etc. etc. Chicken or the egg? Someone has to make the first move, right? Why should it always be me?
> 
> I don't understand why some posters say things along the lines of "be a man, take what you want, blah blah blah". Roles have changed dramatically over the years. You can't say you want a caring man who cooks, cleans, takes care of the kids, and is sensitive to your needs and not accept the fact that he is sensitive in bed. If my wife turns me down, or doesn't initiate sex, it hurts my feelings plain and simple. Doesn't make me less of a man. I lead in all aspects of my life, including the bedroom when things do happen. I don't think it is too much to ask that she initiate every once in a while. 1 out of 15 times would be fine with me. Sometimes you want to feel like THE man. Does she really think I enjoy the act of massaging her back? No, I enjoy the fact that I am making her happy. Not too much to ask her to return the favor, right?
> 
> BTW, I share all household chores with my wife, I do all of my own laundry including ironing, etc., I cook dinner more often than she does. I love to talk and will carry on any conversation she wishes (except when I am bitter about the lack of sex, then I can just get distant). I have never cheated. I have never even flirted with another girl. Hell, I look away when there is nudity on TV. I compliment here excessively. I keep up with my appearances and look mostly the same as I did 19 years ago when we were married (less muscle tone but roughly the same size). She has a much less demanding job than I do and works from home 2-3 days a week.
> 
> Even though I am pushing 40, I am ready to go at least 3 times a week. Our current pace is once in the last 4 months :-(. Before that time it was maybe twice a month. I am kind of done at this point, but I will save that part of the story for a different thread.
> 
> Men are so easy to please, so why is it so hard?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 3kgtmitsu

It's a 2 way street...if my wife doesn't act interested when I make an approach it turns me off...or if when we do she wants to just 'get right into it'...here's the thing...some women are stress magnets..they by choice bring on stress to themselves and get all worked up about it...which is exactly how my wife is...by helping her out it does make a difference sometimes but most of the time she just goes on to the next thing stressing her out...right now it's school for her. But I know after school it's gonna be work. This leads to low drive.
Bottom line is you both Have gotta make time for it no matter what...if you have the excuse of stress get over it...life is stress and you either deal with it or let it rule you. If you don't make sex important don't be hurt or surprised when your mate wanders. There's a difference between real things causing a low drive and simply not trying. At least in my case my wife recognizes this and works on it...rarely go more than 2 weeks although 'good' into it sex is more rare.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Marduk

stupidman said:


> Chicken or the egg? This is the exact argument that my wife and I have had for I can't even count how many years. Of course, it relates more to the frequency of sex than to the question of who initiates it but the 2 things are related. I get frustrated that she won't initiate and stop for a while, which usually leads to less sex. After a week goes by things just get awkward to the point that neither of us will initiate and weeks will go by without sex.
> 
> As to the frequency of sex, she contends that if I took her out more, paid her more attention, etc. that I would get more sex and I contend that if I got more sex I would want to take her out more, etc. etc. Chicken or the egg? Someone has to make the first move, right? Why should it always be me?
> 
> I don't understand why some posters say things along the lines of "be a man, take what you want, blah blah blah". Roles have changed dramatically over the years. You can't say you want a caring man who cooks, cleans, takes care of the kids, and is sensitive to your needs and not accept the fact that he is sensitive in bed. If my wife turns me down, or doesn't initiate sex, it hurts my feelings plain and simple. Doesn't make me less of a man. I lead in all aspects of my life, including the bedroom when things do happen. I don't think it is too much to ask that she initiate every once in a while. 1 out of 15 times would be fine with me. Sometimes you want to feel like THE man. Does she really think I enjoy the act of massaging her back? No, I enjoy the fact that I am making her happy. Not too much to ask her to return the favor, right?
> 
> BTW, I share all household chores with my wife, I do all of my own laundry including ironing, etc., I cook dinner more often than she does. I love to talk and will carry on any conversation she wishes (except when I am bitter about the lack of sex, then I can just get distant). I have never cheated. I have never even flirted with another girl. Hell, I look away when there is nudity on TV. I compliment here excessively. I keep up with my appearances and look mostly the same as I did 19 years ago when we were married (less muscle tone but roughly the same size). She has a much less demanding job than I do and works from home 2-3 days a week.
> 
> Even though I am pushing 40, I am ready to go at least 3 times a week. Our current pace is once in the last 4 months :-(. Before that time it was maybe twice a month. I am kind of done at this point, but I will save that part of the story for a different thread.
> 
> Men are so easy to please, so why is it so hard?


I don't understand your post.

You start by saying why you don't understand the advice about taking what you want. It's called responsive desire. Many women like to feel desired and that turns them on. Sometimes. Sometimes that's enough to re-ignite the spark.

Then you go on about all the ways you're awesome, but not very exciting, and really egalitarian and "safe" in your marriage.

But you're not happy with the amount of sex you get and you're done?

What are you willing to do to get more sex from your wife? What if one of the easiest ways to potentially get more sex isn't what you want to hear?


----------



## stupidman

marduk said:


> I don't understand your post.
> 
> You start by saying why you don't understand the advice about taking what you want. It's called responsive desire. Many women like to feel desired and that turns them on. Sometimes. Sometimes that's enough to re-ignite the spark.
> 
> Then you go on about all the ways you're awesome, but not very exciting, and really egalitarian and "safe" in your marriage.
> 
> But you're not happy with the amount of sex you get and you're done?
> 
> What are you willing to do to get more sex from your wife? What if one of the easiest ways to potentially get more sex isn't what you want to hear?


lol, seems like I always have someone ripping me to shreds every time I post. In my defense, this was me kind of venting my frustration over the sex thing. I certainly don't think I am awesome, but I am a good father and husband. I admit, I needed to look egalitarian up. Isn't being treated like an equal something women want? Isn't "safe" something women want? I suppose your comment about not being exciting is fair enough. I am a nice guy, not the dark mysterious bad boy. I am pretty sure that is what my wife wanted at least at one point in her life. 

I absolutely make her feel desired 9 out of 10 times by taking what I want (other than the recent 6 month dry spell that elicited my rant). My point was that I like to feel desired sometimes too. 

The reasons for being done are much bigger than the lack of sex thing. I posted my story elsewhere. Sorry for my rant here.


----------



## Personal

*Does your wife ever initiate sex?*

Yes, she does.


----------



## lovelygirl

stupidman said:


> Chicken or the egg? This is the exact argument that my wife and I have had for I can't even count how many years. Of course, it relates more to the frequency of sex than to the question of who initiates it but the 2 things are related. I get frustrated that she won't initiate and stop for a while, which usually leads to less sex. After a week goes by things just get awkward to the point that neither of us will initiate and weeks will go by without sex.
> 
> As to the frequency of sex, she contends that if I took her out more, paid her more attention, etc. that I would get more sex and I contend that if I got more sex I would want to take her out more, etc. etc. Chicken or the egg? Someone has to make the first move, right? Why should it always be me?
> 
> I don't understand why some posters say things along the lines of "be a man, take what you want, blah blah blah". Roles have changed dramatically over the years. You can't say you want a caring man who cooks, cleans, takes care of the kids, and is sensitive to your needs and not accept the fact that he is sensitive in bed. If my wife turns me down, or doesn't initiate sex, it hurts my feelings plain and simple. Doesn't make me less of a man. I lead in all aspects of my life, including the bedroom when things do happen. I don't think it is too much to ask that she initiate every once in a while. 1 out of 15 times would be fine with me. Sometimes you want to feel like THE man. Does she really think I enjoy the act of massaging her back? No, I enjoy the fact that I am making her happy. Not too much to ask her to return the favor, right?
> 
> *BTW, I share all household chores with my wife, I do all of my own laundry including ironing, etc., I cook dinner more often than she does. I love to talk and will carry on any conversation she wishes (except when I am bitter about the lack of sex, then I can just get distant). I have never cheated. I have never even flirted with another girl. Hell, I look away when there is nudity on TV. I compliment here excessively. I keep up with my appearances and look mostly the same as I did 19 years ago when we were married* (less muscle tone but roughly the same size). She has a much less demanding job than I do and works from home 2-3 days a week.
> 
> Even though I am pushing 40, I am ready to go at least 3 times a week. Our current pace is once in the last 4 months :-(. Before that time it was maybe twice a month. I am kind of done at this point, but I will save that part of the story for a different thread.
> 
> Men are so easy to please, so why is it so hard?


You can do anything you feel is appropriate but if you don't do what she asks you to then your effort is in vain.

She told you she wants you to pay more attention, she told you she wants you to take her out on dates.
It doesn't matter if you cook, do the house-chores, laundry..and so on. That's not what she's looking for. You're doing what YOU think is right but now what SHE thinks is right.

Cooking and laundry might not be as important to her as taking her out and complementing her. Her needs could be words of affirmation and quality time so forget about the rest. 
Once you start meeting her needs she'll meet yours by giving you more sex.


----------



## Fozzy

*Does your wife ever initiate sex?*

Pretty sure she'd rather walk barefoot across a desert of lego bricks.


----------



## stupidman

Fozzy said:


> *Does your wife ever initiate sex?*
> 
> Pretty sure she'd rather walk barefoot across a desert of lego bricks.


Fozzy, that was some funny sh** right there. 

lovely girl, fair enough. I can only hope that the outcome is that I don't have to share in any of the household chores and she wants to have sex with me even more ;-)


----------



## Personal

Fozzy said:


> *Does your wife ever initiate sex?*
> 
> Pretty sure she'd rather walk barefoot across a desert of lego bricks.


Ouch! That is determination, I hate stepping on lego bricks, I'd give up anything not to walk across desert of them.


----------



## SailBadTheSinner

Hurts me to see some of the guys in their 40s saying that they're slowing down b/c of age. Just turned 68 and my hard driving sweetie is 58. Sure, I'm tuned up with some of Big Pharmca's best, but I'm also working hard at staying fit and am looking pretty good in and out of a polo shirt and shorts. Has she initiated? Just last night. She said: "Come here and f**k me." So I did.


----------



## Overitau

My last post here on this subject was 2012. I just want to share my own experiences on what I did to cope since that time and the conclusions I've drawn. Take what I say as my own personal experience, it's not meant as advice. I had thought about leaving, but I'm never giving up my two beautiful boys, and our divorce laws here are so one sided, I'd lose 70% of my assets and find myself starting from scratch with child maintenance payments on top of it all - that wasn't going to happen! 

Months went by after my last post, needless to say there was nothing. I was holding out in spite and it was killing me. No-one initiated. Then one morning I rolled over put my arm around her, started massaging her back in my still half-asleep state and lifted her top to get her close to me. Then I heard the two words that finally turned everything around 180 degrees - "Please Don't". Now it wasn't the first time I'd heard these words or other similar phrases. At first I was livid about it. After months and months of nothing, I get this? Heck I was furious! Then, days later, I really don't know why, I had a revelation... An epiphany of sorts. "Please Don't"? Why would* I *want to have sex with someone who obviously thought it a chore? Why am* I *pursuing her any more in that regard? Would I pursue a female in the street like that knowing she really doesn't want me? No. So why am I putting myself in that situation over and over and over again? I used to think it was her torturing me, that day I realised *I* was only torturing myself. I've been allowing her to use sex as some sort of weapon/motivator/tool. That ended and I had to take control, but probably in a way that will leave you surprised. 

Two years later, I now work hard at work than I ever have, I swim once or twice a week and use the gym at work regularly. I potter around at home in the garden and with a few DIY projects. I'm much fitter and healthier. A hobby is now self funding. I expend my energy into 'other' pursuits. *MY* pursuits. I spend as much time as I can with the kids. I get what I need to get done around the house (that includes the cooking and cleaning when my shifts see me at home for most of the day). Sex in our relationship isn't something to get upset about any more - it simply doesn't exist. As Douglas Bader said about flying with no legs after he was told it would be an issue, "How can my legs be an issue? I don't have any!" 

In hindsight though, the little things became apparent. When she put on or removed her bra, she'd turn away, she always changed her underwear in the walk in robe. As I said, little things. So now I don't walk around naked, I walk into the bathroom fully clothed, come out the same. I don't attempt to "sneak a peak" at the Mrs like I used to. If she was going to treat me like that, I could do the same. Even that was empowering! 

Now of course us mere men need sex. You know it and I know it. So I get it and it's never a chore. Some will say I'm bad, morally lost, going to hell or some other description. That's okay. If you feel that way - it's your own opinion and opinions are like butt holes - we all have one and no-one butt hole is any better than another!

Anyway back to it.. Once a month or so, when I'm on evening/night shift on my way home I stop in at a local brothel. I have a game of pool with one of the girls, sit on the couch and watch something erotic that's invariably on the screen in the "lounge" while having a drink, in the company of some intelligent and extremely attractive women. One girl I see regularly is a recent Science (physics) graduate, we can chat for hours (between her clients) and on some nights all I've spent is some money on the pool table, some drinks had good conversation and some great company (even the other men who frequent the place are fantastic - probably because they're in the same situation), on other nights the chat's lead to me being one of her clients. It's business - not a chore! The overtime I do pays for it - $50 a week goes into a prepaid "Load and Go" (overly appropriate I think :rofl anonymous visa card directly from my pay. She doesn't know, I don't tell her. She's no longer bothered by my unwanted advances and we're both very happy. We're friends... good friends... In the time since she's not approached me once. We haven't fought, we haven't bickered, there's no blame. 

I feel that I've now taken control of a situation that was controlling me. Since realising that I could turn it around, I've never been happier, and I think it's because I am not putting myself in a situation that makes *ME* unhappy! Why do we do it to ourselves? It's crazy.

There is an unknown in all this though. What happens when she does eventually want it? Well quite honestly I don't think I'm sexually attracted to her any more. More probable than not is that I'll politely so no. Her not wanting me, eventually stopped me wanting her. If that needs to be said, then so be it. I'll deal with that when and if it occurs. Perhaps I'll find out she's got her own thing on that doesn't include me - will that bother me? No. Until then....:smthumbup:


----------



## ET1SSJonota

Overitau said:


> My last post here on this subject was 2012. I just want to share my own experiences on what I did to cope since that time and the conclusions I've drawn. Take what I say as my own personal experience, it's not meant as advice. I had thought about leaving, but I'm never giving up my two beautiful boys, and our divorce laws here are so one sided, I'd lose 70% of my assets and find myself starting from scratch with child maintenance payments on top of it all - that wasn't going to happen!
> 
> Months went by after my last post, needless to say there was nothing. I was holding out in spite and it was killing me. No-one initiated. Then one morning I rolled over put my arm around her, started massaging her back in my still half-asleep state and lifted her top to get her close to me. Then I heard the two words that finally turned everything around 180 degrees - "Please Don't". Now it wasn't the first time I'd heard these words or other similar phrases. At first I was livid about it. After months and months of nothing, I get this? Heck I was furious! Then, days later, I really don't know why, I had a revelation... An epiphany of sorts. "Please Don't"? Why would* I *want to have sex with someone who obviously thought it a chore? Why am* I *pursuing her any more in that regard? Would I pursue a female in the street like that knowing she really doesn't want me? No. So why am I putting myself in that situation over and over and over again? I used to think it was her torturing me, that day I realised *I* was only torturing myself. I've been allowing her to use sex as some sort of weapon/motivator/tool. That ended and I had to take control, but probably in a way that will leave you surprised.
> 
> Two years later, I now work hard at work than I ever have, I swim once or twice a week and use the gym at work regularly. I potter around at home in the garden and with a few DIY projects. I'm much fitter and healthier. A hobby is now self funding. I expend my energy into 'other' pursuits. *MY* pursuits. I spend as much time as I can with the kids. I get what I need to get done around the house (that includes the cooking and cleaning when my shifts see me at home for most of the day). Sex in our relationship isn't something to get upset about any more - it simply doesn't exist. As Douglas Bader said about flying with no legs after he was told it would be an issue, "How can my legs be an issue? I don't have any!"
> 
> In hindsight though, the little things became apparent. When she put on or removed her bra, she'd turn away, she always changed her underwear in the walk in robe. As I said, little things. So now I don't walk around naked, I walk into the bathroom fully clothed, come out the same. I don't attempt to "sneak a peak" at the Mrs like I used to. If she was going to treat me like that, I could do the same. Even that was empowering!
> 
> Now of course us mere men need sex. You know it and I know it. So I get it and it's never a chore. Some will say I'm bad, morally lost, going to hell or some other description. That's okay. If you feel that way - it's your own opinion and opinions are like butt holes - we all have one and no-one butt hole is any better than another!
> 
> Anyway back to it.. Once a month or so, when I'm on evening/night shift on my way home I stop in at a local brothel. I have a game of pool with one of the girls, sit on the couch and watch something erotic that's invariably on the screen in the "lounge" while having a drink, in the company of some intelligent and extremely attractive women. One girl I see regularly is a recent Science (physics) graduate, we can chat for hours (between her clients) and on some nights all I've spent is some money on the pool table, some drinks had good conversation and some great company (even the other men who frequent the place are fantastic - probably because they're in the same situation), on other nights the chat's lead to me being one of her clients. It's business - not a chore! The overtime I do pays for it - $50 a week goes into a prepaid "Load and Go" (overly appropriate I think :rofl anonymous visa card directly from my pay. She doesn't know, I don't tell her. She's no longer bothered by my unwanted advances and we're both very happy. We're friends... good friends... In the time since she's not approached me once. We haven't fought, we haven't bickered, there's no blame.
> 
> I feel that I've now taken control of a situation that was controlling me. Since realising that I could turn it around, I've never been happier, and I think it's because I am not putting myself in a situation that makes *ME* unhappy! Why do we do it to ourselves? It's crazy.
> 
> There is an unknown in all this though. What happens when she does eventually want it? Well quite honestly I don't think I'm sexually attracted to her any more. More probable than not is that I'll politely so no. Her not wanting me, eventually stopped me wanting her. If that needs to be said, then so be it. I'll deal with that when and if it occurs. Perhaps I'll find out she's got her own thing on that doesn't include me - will that bother me? No. Until then....:smthumbup:


So you're satisfied with paying for sex from someone else, then coming home to your roommate?
I'm glad that works for you. 
Frankly, I find that situation to be more disgusting than a "wife" who won't have sex. 
If the relationship isn't there anymore, why are you? You do realize there are women out there who would sleep with you happily, WITHOUT having to pay them, right?


----------



## I Notice The Details

Yes, but I would like her to initiate more often.


----------



## Overitau

ET1SSJonota said:


> So you're satisfied with paying for sex from someone else, then coming home to your roommate?
> I'm glad that works for you.
> Frankly, I find that situation to be more disgusting than a "wife" who won't have sex.
> If the relationship isn't there anymore, why are you? You do realize there are women out there who would sleep with you happily, WITHOUT having to pay them, right?


Yes I realise that. But what I don't want is 'another relationship'. I never ever said that my wife and I don't have a relationship, we do. We're great friends. We kiss now more than ever. We hug and cuddle. We converse. We're parents to our wonderful kids. I'm not walking away from that. Your opinion is noted, but has little value to me. I never said that my approach was 'the right one', but it works for me. I don't put down the way other men choose to deal with it. See my point about opinions above. What matters at the end of the day is that I'm happy, very happy for the first time in years. She's not pressured and I'm not allowing myself to be pissed off by it. My own mental and physical wellbeing are paramount to my kids. I need to be there for them without curling up into a dribbling wreck. So sure. Criticise my approach. But are you really happy with the path you've chosen?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Haiku

> Does your wife ever initiate sex?


Unfortunately, yes. That's why I came here.


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## jaquen

I'm definitely not one to condone prostitutes. But I definitely have compassion for this man and understand where he's coming from.

I find sexual abandonment equally as horrible as adultery. If you endlessly refuse your spouse sexually I consider that "cheating", cheating your spouse out of their right to have marital sex. I believe, in Overitau's case, his wife is the one who first broke their marriage vows. You can not reasonably expect sexual fidelity while refusing to sexually satisfy your spouse. That's like refusing to feed your children but banning them from eating anywhere else. Starve a person and don't be shocked when they eventually either die or find a way to get food anywhere else.


----------



## Middle of Everything

Wives are allowed to initiate? Well sh!t. Learn something new everyday. 


Seriously though she does rarely. If left up to her hello once a month.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## muguremaina

hi guys
this may seem wierd hearing from a guy, coz am a woman engaged leaving with ,my fiancee but there is a big problem because i initiate sex lots of times but when we get to a fight he says that all i know is have sex.
so what exactly do you men want?


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## ET1SSJonota

Overitau said:


> Yes I realise that. But what I don't want is 'another relationship'. I never ever said that my wife and I don't have a relationship, we do. We're great friends. We kiss now more than ever. We hug and cuddle. We converse. We're parents to our wonderful kids. I'm not walking away from that. Your opinion is noted, but has little value to me. I never said that my approach was 'the right one', but it works for me. I don't put down the way other men choose to deal with it. See my point about opinions above. What matters at the end of the day is that I'm happy, very happy for the first time in years. She's not pressured and I'm not allowing myself to be pissed off by it. My own mental and physical wellbeing are paramount to my kids. I need to be there for them without curling up into a dribbling wreck. So sure. Criticise my approach. But are you really happy with the path you've chosen?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


There are two problems with your scenario.

The first, and I'll admit that it is variable, is the potential illegality of the prostitution aspect. If you are participating in an illegal brothel, then you are putting yourself in a situation where while you may have your "mental health and well-being", your children may also get to see you arrested for solicitation. This is, of course, a moot point if prostitution is legal in your locale.

Second is that you are now living a lie, deceiving your wife. If this were an honorable/acceptable approach, you would not be hiding it. Perhaps she would even accept it as you have - but that is not what you have chosen to do. You are now cheating, and whatever has driven you to do so, it is dishonorable. If you need the sex, and she is unwilling to give it or consent to an open marriage, then divorce. Rationalizing your uncouth behavior is disgusting, at least to my relatively unimportant opinion. 

Am I 100% happy in my life? No, but I'm not doing anything illegal or immoral to satisfy my sexual needs, and I'm not doing ANYTHING behind my wife's back. Nor would I stoop to what you are doing, or ESPECIALLY tout it as a workable, acceptable solution on a pro-marriage forum.


----------



## Overitau

ET1SSJonota said:


> There are two problems with your scenario.
> 
> The first, and I'll admit that it is variable, is the potential illegality of the prostitution aspect. ...This is, of course, a moot point if prostitution is legal in your locale.


It's a moot point.



> Am I 100% happy in my life? No, but I'm not doing anything illegal or immoral to satisfy my sexual needs, and I'm not doing ANYTHING behind my wife's back. Nor would I stoop to what you are doing, or ESPECIALLY tout it as a workable, acceptable solution on a pro-marriage forum.


Wow. I'm taken aback by this. You're a conundrum. You say...



> If you need the sex, and she is unwilling to give it or consent to an open marriage, then divorce.....


You then get up on your high horse telling me this is 


> ...a pro-marriage forum.


The irony is amazing. Firstly, nowhere have I read that this was a pro-marriage forum, please point that one out to me. It is operated by Verticalscope Inc. a private for profit business, it's not operated by a christian, pro-marriage, pro/anti anything group. 

Secondly, I posted my situation to relate to other men here just one way, my way, of dealing with the situation. After all, the post resides in "The Men's Clubhouse". Perhaps I should have posted a disclaimer explaining it wasn't 'advice'. 

Thirdly and lastly, as an atheist myself, I assume (from your staunch pro-marriage stance, perhaps wrongly I know) you're a Christian. I'd like to ask how 'christian' is it of you to throw stones at other's situations? How 'christian' is it to judge others' actions in relation to pain and hurt? 

Matthew 7:1-5
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgement you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye." 

John 8:7
"And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.”

I didn't criticise or judge the way others' dealt with this sad situation. I felt pity and empathy with these men. I chose to relate my story not to be judged, but to share one way, my way, of dealing with it. Ironically a way that doesn't (you'll be ever so happy to hear) end in a divorce. I expected some sort of support from other men in the same situation... but alas there's one amongst us who's way is obviously more righteous than mine, and he'll let me know it.

I'm done. If this is the form 'christian support' comes in, I'm glad I'm an atheist that doesn't place judgements and expectations on others. If this is the support that comes from a forum of men, brothers, all facing the same situation, I'd rather be counselled by a Nun who's knows nothing at all about what were going through.


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## ET1SSJonota

Overitau said:


> ...deflect, deflect...


Wrong. Not a Christian. That would have fit neatly into your Atheist world view though, wouldn't it - easy to just ignore those pesky theists... 

Feel free to read through the forums. Your position of seeking sex outside the marriage, WITHOUT the consent of the other partner, is generally heavily frowned upon on this site. There are plenty of cheating forums you can go and post your suggestions on. Your style would be most welcomed there. 

Also, you might want to look up the definition and usage of the word "irony". You'll find this example does not apply. Then again, the definition of marriage seems to mean little you as well - so I guess words (including vows) are meaningless.


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## pixie1

freddie_fender said:


> Curious, but we have been together for 8 years, no kids. Within those 8 years, my wife has probably initiated sex less than 5 times.
> 
> We have discussed it numerous times, how it would be nice if she took the lead the odd time. But still, it never happens. I believe the last time she initiated sex was at least 2 years ago.
> 
> Is this odd? Is it too much to ask of her to initiate once in a awhile? Any comments would be wonderful! Thank you.


Late to the conversation, but blown away by the topic. I am female. I've been married for almost 7 years. My husband complains that I initiate too much. I can't imagine not wanting to have sex with him.


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## jimmy909

she's the problem. had you married a better person you wouldn't be in this situation. 

END IT


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## lookingforanicerwoman

thanks for your input from female perspective, I guess each case has its own nuances, but in general, some of us have tried all the stuff thats always posted, and it makes no difference. "help with housework", "longer foreplay" "treat her like a flower" "be more alpha" "touching without expecting sex" , blah blah. We try to understand but seems that theres always another hurdle to jump, which makes me boil it down to one of two things. 
This is why virtually no marriage ever lasts for a lifetime despite our society expecting that it will.

1. It is possible that she has an issue with control. It is often borderline abusive: in that she is ok with withholding a basic need of her partner, while requiring him to be monogamous to her. Hes trapped and she has the keys. She dictates if, when, where, how, and how often. She decides if there will be sex and whatever she decides, you have to live with whether its what you want, or not. This isnt a marriage, it;s abusive. And note, she won't care that she caused you to seek a person who isn't abusive. She wants you to dare to have someone else. She can get out of the relationship- as the victim of YOUR abuse that way, No one will blame her. Solution? Counseling maybe, but its probably an ingrained personality issue, and it wont be helpful. Another solution is to give her a clear warning that you are feeling abused by her and she will probably laugh at you. If it doesnt shake her up or generate any care about your feelings, just leave her. Dont have a another relationship when you do it, just do it.


2. This scenario is where she stalls it off, as long as she can. The reason is that she wont admit it, but you repulse her in some way. If she doesnt initiate, and has every excuse, or if she thinks about ANYTHING but your needs, or she avoids even talking about it....it means that she is disgusted by being intimate with you. She just isnt into you anymore, but doesnt have the courage to tell you. She will string it out as long as she can. She doesnt want to be the one who breaks it off. No hassle of divorce, and you to help her with work and bills. She has a roommate and doesnt have to screw him. 
So why does she need to change anything? A man isnt required to live his life with someone who doesnt like him, forever.
Solution is Counseling to find out if theres anything in particular that can be changed, but if its a long list of flaws or peronality conflicts, just accept that you arent what she wants, and wish her luck in finding it elsewhere. You can find someone nicer to be around.


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## eroark

Even though this is a 2 year old thread that I just stumbled upon, I need to leave my part.

My wife and I have been together for 10 years. In those ten years of being together she has probably initiated sex with me maybe 15 times, if that. I am the one that is ALWAYS trying to initiate, because I cannot picture myself doing anything else with someone else, only her. When I do try to "get her in the mood", I am normally rejected by her saying, "I am tired" or "I don't feel good". There are alot of times that she just looks at me and says, "We can just do lazy sex and that will be good". 

I'm honestly getting tired of trying to initiate the sex and get rejected by it. I have apologized, which I know that I shouldn't, about wanting to have sex with her so much.


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## CuddleBug

freddie_fender said:


> Curious, but we have been together for 8 years, no kids. Within those 8 years, my wife has probably initiated sex less than 5 times.
> 
> We have discussed it numerous times, how it would be nice if she took the lead the odd time. But still, it never happens. I believe the last time she initiated sex was at least 2 years ago.
> 
> Is this odd? Is it too much to ask of her to initiate once in a awhile? Any comments would be wonderful! Thank you.




Mrs.CuddleBug only initiates maybe once a month / 5 weeks or so.

If I initiate once a week or more, that's too much.

So I stopped initiating and gave up.

Result is she no longer gets that cuddling or non sexual intimacy anymore. If she kills the sexual part, I've stopped the other part.

Notice how LD's never change and drag and relationship down to life support?


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## lovelygirl

CuddleBug said:


> Mrs.CuddleBug only initiates maybe once a month / 5 weeks or so.
> 
> If I initiate once a week or more, that's too much.
> 
> So I stopped initiating and gave up.
> 
> Result is she no longer gets that cuddling or non sexual intimacy anymore. If she kills the sexual part, I've stopped the other part.
> 
> Notice how LD's never change and drag and relationship down to life support?


I remember once (2 years ago or so) that you said in the sex forum that things were changing for better and she was starting to become sexual again....but now that I read this I see they could be worse.

Sorry to hear that again.


----------



## DTO

I've found the only reliable way to get your needs met is to politely make them known and be ready to move on if you can't get your partner's buy-in.

I did it all wrong with my ex. She baited-and-switched me, then said she was working on it, blamed me for her low drive, and then finally made an attempt when she saw I was done.

The following ladies were not an issue, having similar preferences for frequency and variety. But the two most recent ladies had issues (one had hangups, the other liked sex but felt that she was entitled to provide sex as she saw fit while getting 100% from me).

Once you make your minimum needs clear (nicely) to a lady who is interested, you tend to get results - certainly much better results than sucking up, covert contracts, or just hoping and waiting.

ETA: My points are: (1) this is not to coerce anyone to do anything, but rather to drive a decision - "do you value a relationship with me enough to make my needs a priority?" and (2) if you've been dating someone for a while, you're not likely to turn them off if they are otherwise interested in you.


----------



## _anonymous_

cody5 said:


> I don't understand men turning down sex. Doesn't compute.


This has probably already been answered by now, but I'll chime in. There have been a few times that I have turned down sex with my wife, mainly to send a clear signal that I won't just settle for sex on her terms and take "the scraps" like some dog. 

Her terms are 1) sex only when she initiates (e.g. when she's horny, or pity sex); 2) extremely limited sexual menu; 3) always use protection (she won't use the pill or other female contraceptives) 4) sex as the very last activity of the day (e.g. lowest priority). 

To purport that "men turning down sex" is inconceivable is to say that to them, all sex with women is equal regardless of its circumstances, and men commonly have no standards for sex. Not true.

I need my wife to want me, I need my wife to be open to sex as an free expression, and I need both things to be constant. If she can't get my needs through her head, she can masturbate alone until the reality of her inevitable divorce.


----------



## aine

tatted said:


> Wife never initiates sex so we dont have it very often. I think every once in a while she feels bad that were not so she will give in when I try. 14 years of marriage and this is what I get how nice. Truth is I do not care anymore because when I do try she says no at first then gets mad that I stop trying. Reason I stop is numberous times she has told me that If she turns me down she feels bad about it and cant sleep so I just do not try. Most of the time I would rather go down stairs and find some internet porn than to try and get the wife going.


You are being a little obtuse. Your wife needs to be wooed a little. What to you do in the day hours before you go to bed that shows your wife you want her. I don't understand how many ignore their wives all day or engage very little with her but then expect her to be not only available for sex but even to initiate. It sucks. My H is the same, if I'm not feeling it or my needs are not met in that dept then he's not getting any, period, he's beginning to cotton on too   
He just told me the other day, he realises this and its not about quantity but quality of attention - he's right! :grin2:


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## pag1617

Maybe half a dozen times in almost two and a half years. Usually I initiate, if she doesn't "have a headache"...I've just gotten used to not getting any action


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## TX-SC

Very rarely. 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## arbitrator

*This thread is about as old as Methuselah, but, then again, so am I!

Having said that, XW#1 rarely ever initiated, and pretty much left it all up for me to do, occasionally being met with the "Sorry, but I've got a headache" objection!

My RSXW, however, was so much more adept at initiating carnal action with other men!*


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## Diana7

I initiate about a third of the time I guess. I know he likes me to do this, so I do. Its shows him that I enjoy sex with him and am not just doing it to keep him happy.


----------



## alexm

Diana7 said:


> I initiate about a third of the time I guess. I know he likes me to do this, so I do. Its shows him that I enjoy sex with him and am not just doing it to keep him happy.


Mine can't seem to wrap her head around this, for some reason. She rarely turns me down, however, but as we all know, that's not exactly indicative of desire 

And that's the part I can't understand why she doesn't get.

It got to the point where, when I last brought the subject up, she stated that I don't cuddle and have non-sexual intimacy with her, which she implied would go a long way to a more frequent sex life.

Truth is, I've gone down that road before, and laid on the non-sexual intimacy pretty thick. No actual result. Not a covert contract, either, on my part, just logic. Thing is, up until a couple of years ago, I was more than happy to provide her with non-sexual intimacy for her benefit, not mine. I also enjoyed it, TBH. But then, as humans are wont to do, I thought "hey, wait a minute, I'm meeting her needs in the way she wants and requires and desires, but I'm not receiving the same in return". So my desire to do so waned - and not because I wasn't receiving something in return, per se, but because, simply, only one persons needs were being properly met.

I called her on her BS about that, and also reminded her that I DO still provide her with non-sexual intimacy - just not at the frequency it used to be.

I also mentioned to her that, should she ever want to cuddle or engage in non-sexual intimacy with me, I'm always game, and I'll never turn her down - which is true. She balked at that, as expected, and said she wanted me to initiate with that, and not have to 'go get it'.

You can guess what I said next. Duh.

But alas, all for not. It's like a game of chicken, I think. LD people will always be LD (well, most of them), and there's no amount of logic that can change that.

Like many other posters here have said, 'initiating' means different things to different people. To some, like my wife, simply being naked under the covers at bedtime denotes initiation. No, that means "I'm ready, take me" or "I'm okay with having sex, but you still have to do all the work to get it started".

To be fair, my wife participates (and participates well) when we do have sex. I have absolutely no complaints about the quality whatsoever. 9 years in, and she still takes care of me in bed (and vice versa). There's no bad sex with her. But that's her saving grace, TBH.

I can live with the LD - as I said, she rarely turns me down, but it WOULD be nice to be desired or even just thought about once in a while. What I absolutely despise, however, is using my own argument against me.

/rant over. It is what it is.


----------



## lovelygirl

@alexm 
She needs to understand that just like she wants you to be the initiator of the NON-sexualy intimacy (NSI), you need her to be the initiator of the sexual intimacy (SI). It goes both ways for these languages of love.

See, she's lucky to have someone who accepts and shares the NSI with her and that he's ready to provide it for her whenever she wants it..
Most men (in your shoes) would stop the NSI unless provided with a good amount of initiative SI from women's part.

I don't know the age of you two, but I don't know why it is so hard to initiate SI with someone you're supposed to be in love with. If she's already good at sex (after you initiate...) and she doesn't turn you down..then what's the problem if she takes the initiation? 

I haven't really had a long time partner, but I'd LOVE to initiate for the one I'm in love with.


----------



## Diana7

alexm said:


> Mine can't seem to wrap her head around this, for some reason. She rarely turns me down, however, but as we all know, that's not exactly indicative of desire
> 
> And that's the part I can't understand why she doesn't get.
> 
> It got to the point where, when I last brought the subject up, she stated that I don't cuddle and have non-sexual intimacy with her, which she implied would go a long way to a more frequent sex life.
> 
> Truth is, I've gone down that road before, and laid on the non-sexual intimacy pretty thick. No actual result. Not a covert contract, either, on my part, just logic. Thing is, up until a couple of years ago, I was more than happy to provide her with non-sexual intimacy for her benefit, not mine. I also enjoyed it, TBH. But then, as humans are wont to do, I thought "hey, wait a minute, I'm meeting her needs in the way she wants and requires and desires, but I'm not receiving the same in return". So my desire to do so waned - and not because I wasn't receiving something in return, per se, but because, simply, only one persons needs were being properly met.
> 
> I called her on her BS about that, and also reminded her that I DO still provide her with non-sexual intimacy - just not at the frequency it used to be.
> 
> I also mentioned to her that, should she ever want to cuddle or engage in non-sexual intimacy with me, I'm always game, and I'll never turn her down - which is true. She balked at that, as expected, and said she wanted me to initiate with that, and not have to 'go get it'.
> 
> You can guess what I said next. Duh.
> 
> But alas, all for not. It's like a game of chicken, I think. LD people will always be LD (well, most of them), and there's no amount of logic that can change that.
> 
> Like many other posters here have said, 'initiating' means different things to different people. To some, like my wife, simply being naked under the covers at bedtime denotes initiation. No, that means "I'm ready, take me" or "I'm okay with having sex, but you still have to do all the work to get it started".
> 
> To be fair, my wife participates (and participates well) when we do have sex. I have absolutely no complaints about the quality whatsoever. 9 years in, and she still takes care of me in bed (and vice versa). There's no bad sex with her. But that's her saving grace, TBH.
> 
> I can live with the LD - as I said, she rarely turns me down, but it WOULD be nice to be desired or even just thought about once in a while. What I absolutely despise, however, is using my own argument against me.
> 
> /rant over. It is what it is.


I would try not to get too concerned about this.You have a wife who rarely refuses sex and that's really positive. I know a couple in a really happy marriage where she never initiates but they have a good sex life and he has just accepted her as she is. She doesn't reject him and they enjoy sex together. Try to be grateful and thankful for for what you do have, and not resentful for what you don't.


----------



## Faithful Wife

I've always initiated sex in my relationships. I'd say it has overall been about 50/50 initiation, or maybe even more like 75% of the time sex just happened naturally and was wanted by both of us, the other 25% we split the initiation.

In my current relationship, he initiates so much that I can't recall any time I've ever initiated. But he also knows I want sex any time he's ready and able (even multiple times in a day or evening). He isn't worried that I don't initiate at all. And I love it that he just goes for it whenever he wants because I'm ready and happy to have sex with him. 

If/when we ever get to the point when he hasn't initiated it first and I get the chance to, I'll be happy to initiate it, too. But I kind of don't think we'll ever get there.


----------



## alexm

lovelygirl said:


> @alexm
> She needs to understand that just like she wants you to be the initiator of the NON-sexualy intimacy (NSI), you need her to be the initiator of the sexual intimacy (SI). It goes both ways for these languages of love.
> 
> See, she's lucky to have someone who accepts and shares the NSI with her and that he's ready to provide it for her whenever she wants it..
> Most men (in your shoes) would stop the NSI unless provided with a good amount of initiative SI from women's part.
> 
> I don't know the age of you two, but I don't know why it is so hard to initiate SI with someone you're supposed to be in love with. If she's already good at sex (after you initiate...) and she doesn't turn you down..then what's the problem if she takes the initiation?
> 
> I haven't really had a long time partner, but I'd LOVE to initiate for the one I'm in love with.


I know, I know...! But like I said, it's her saving grace, so to speak, that she rarely says no, and is also pretty darn good.

As Diana said below, I'm not too concerned about it. It's more that she's hypocritical about it all and that's what bothers me. Obviously I'd love for her to desire me the way I desire her (sexually), but TAM has taught me that this isn't that uncommon. She has responsive desire, and that's okay. Not ideal for me, but I can live with it. There is worse out there, I know that.



Diana7 said:


> I would try not to get too concerned about this.You have a wife who rarely refuses sex and that's really positive. I know a couple in a really happy marriage where she never initiates but they have a good sex life and he has just accepted her as she is. She doesn't reject him and they enjoy sex together. Try to be grateful and thankful for for what you do have, and not resentful for what you don't.


That's how I feel. But every now and again, one needs to be desired. I also dislike having to do the heavy lifting in regards to this, every single time. I'm pretty much ready to go at any time, but I don't exactly walk around thinking about sex 24/7. It would be nice to have it be spontaneous every now and again. In this situation, it's NEVER spontaneous (for me).



Faithful Wife said:


> In my current relationship, he initiates so much that I can't recall any time I've ever initiated. But he also knows I want sex any time he's ready and able (even multiple times in a day or evening). He isn't worried that I don't initiate at all. And I love it that he just goes for it whenever he wants because I'm ready and happy to have sex with him.
> 
> If/when we ever get to the point when he hasn't initiated it first and I get the chance to, I'll be happy to initiate it, too. But I kind of don't think we'll ever get there.


I'd be happy with this, lol! If I knew my partner actually wanted me, yet I usually beat her to the punch - no problem. It's less about the actual initiating, and far more about the knowing they want me. If I knew my wife was always ready to go, into it, into ME, etc. then I'd quite honestly have no problem initiating all/most of the time. It's simply that knowledge that one's partner is on the same frequency as you are.

Ideally, one doesn't want to have to 'work' at it, IMO. But instead most of us wind up having to play these little games, in which sexual intimacy is a prize of sorts.

My wife enjoys sex, I know that. But I always have this feeling that it's something she pulls out of her pocket when she feels the time is right. Otherwise, it's hidden away from me. It's like giving a dog a cookie. Sometimes it's a reward, sometimes it's just because you want to give the dog a cookie for no reason - but he still has to sit pretty in front of his owner and wag his tail, to let her know he would like a cookie. I feel like the dog in that scenario. I don't have to beg, but I do have to constantly insinuate that I would like that cookie. If I don't ask for that cookie, I'll never get one.


----------



## naiveonedave

My W used to be 100% responsive desire. After I started getting into shape several years ago, she started to initiate, probably 1/4-1/3 of the time.


----------



## Sixlet

I initiate 99% of the time multiple times a week. The other 1% is when I get fed up and weeks go by til he finally decides it needs it badly enough to ask me when we're going to do it.


----------



## Diana7

alexm said:


> I know, I know...! But like I said, it's her saving grace, so to speak, that she rarely says no, and is also pretty darn good.
> 
> As Diana said below, I'm not too concerned about it. It's more that she's hypocritical about it all and that's what bothers me. Obviously I'd love for her to desire me the way I desire her (sexually), but TAM has taught me that this isn't that uncommon. She has responsive desire, and that's okay. Not ideal for me, but I can live with it. There is worse out there, I know that.
> 
> 
> 
> That's how I feel. But every now and again, one needs to be desired. I also dislike having to do the heavy lifting in regards to this, every single time. I'm pretty much ready to go at any time, but I don't exactly walk around thinking about sex 24/7. It would be nice to have it be spontaneous every now and again. In this situation, it's NEVER spontaneous (for me).
> 
> 
> 
> I'd be happy with this, lol! If I knew my partner actually wanted me, yet I usually beat her to the punch - no problem. It's less about the actual initiating, and far more about the knowing they want me. If I knew my wife was always ready to go, into it, into ME, etc. then I'd quite honestly have no problem initiating all/most of the time. It's simply that knowledge that one's partner is on the same frequency as you are.
> 
> Ideally, one doesn't want to have to 'work' at it, IMO. But instead most of us wind up having to play these little games, in which sexual intimacy is a prize of sorts.
> 
> My wife enjoys sex, I know that. But I always have this feeling that it's something she pulls out of her pocket when she feels the time is right. Otherwise, it's hidden away from me. It's like giving a dog a cookie. Sometimes it's a reward, sometimes it's just because you want to give the dog a cookie for no reason - but he still has to sit pretty in front of his owner and wag his tail, to let her know he would like a cookie. I feel like the dog in that scenario. I don't have to beg, but I do have to constantly insinuate that I would like that cookie. If I don't ask for that cookie, I'll never get one.


Dont make the mistake of thinking that because she doesn't initiate she doesn't desire you. From what you have said about your sex life she does desire you.


----------



## GPC2012

the Ex never, in fact in the almost twenty years we were married I can count on one hand the times she wasn't against sex when I initiated it in fact she'd probably tell me to wrap that hand around my and take care of it myself.

My wife now was a sexual beast when we were first together. Then I had some health issues that put me taking meds every day and sometimes it affect my ability to get an erection without the help of the little blue pill. Now being honest that in itself bothers me but I still want and love my wife. Now she says well I don't want to start something and you get upset if you don't get hard. I have told her repeatedly that that is the reason I keep the bottle of water in the drawer with a few other things a toy or two a bottle of blue pills. We talked that over at length 51 days ago and I told her I'd be ecstatic if she initiated lovemaking. I said you know even if you just came to bed took you panties off and tossed em to me or just left them on the floor. that would be so great to know that she wanted me and I could take it from there. Well like I said 51 days ago and my birthday even came and went I thought for sure I would get laid on my birthday.


----------



## Middle of Everything

alexm said:


> My wife enjoys sex, I know that. But I always have this feeling that it's something she pulls out of her pocket when she feels the time is right. Otherwise, it's hidden away from me. It's like giving a dog a cookie. Sometimes it's a reward, sometimes it's just because you want to give the dog a cookie for no reason - but he still has to sit pretty in front of his owner and wag his tail, to let her know he would like a cookie. I feel like the dog in that scenario. I don't have to beg, but I do have to constantly insinuate that I would like that cookie. If I don't ask for that cookie, I'll never get one.


Your wife and my wife sound VERY similar in this regard AlexM. In all your posts in this thread, Im thinking "yep sounds like my wife" over and over.

I toofeel like a dog waiting for her to deem its time to give the cookie. As time goes on though I find myself thinking "[email protected] that cookie, I dont need it that bad" more and more.


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## Mr The Other

One of the women I am seeing occasionally initiates, and almost always likes to lead in bed. I am not sure how I would feel about that for the rest of my life, but as part of the balance it is great.


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## katiecrna

It could just be the way she is. I initiate way more than my husband. He's more sensitive and doesn't like to get turned down so he would rather wait for when I really want to.


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## lovelygirl

Mr The Other said:


> One of the women I am seeing occasionally initiates, and almost always likes to lead in bed. I am not sure how I would feel about that for the rest of my life, but as part of the balance it is great.


Does it mean you don't like her to initiate or to be a leader in bed?
Does it make you feel insecure? 
@Middle of Everything - is there any reason why you think your wife treats you like that?
Whenever I hear/read about guys who wish their wife initiated more, I always think these women are either LD or you're simply not fulfilling her needs.


----------



## Mr The Other

lovelygirl said:


> Does it mean you don't like her to initiate or to be a leader in bed?
> Does it make you feel insecure?
> 
> @Middle of Everything - is there any reason why you think your wife treats you like that?
> Whenever I hear/read about guys who wish their wife initiated more, I always think these women are either LD or you're simply not fulfilling her needs.


Not at all. That is why I wrote that it is great. I am not sure how much is because I really like it and how much is novelty.


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## mergingcultures

Nope.

Early on she said she'd like to initiate it. So I stopped initiating it, and obviously didn't get any action.

Now I try to initiate it, but usually get the response that she is tired. We probably have sex twice a month.

Married for nearly 10 years.


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## tim adam

thank you for sharing this post.


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## Horizon

Never did - not once to my recollection


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## moth-into-flame

I'm divorced now (whew!), but looking back at our 15 years together - I can't recall her initiating even once - actually, that's not true - the first time we had sex she initiated. But after that...I remember sort of being "allowed" sex once a week. I'd have to ask for it - "can we maybe have a "date" tonight"? And if she wasn't "too tired" or "just not into it", I'd maybe get my morsel. I resented the **** out of that. It's really, really depressing to me to think about that - it seems so common - that a guy generally has to be the one to ask for it, then is _maybe_ given it as some sort of gift or reward. YUCK!! I've been single for over 4 years now (not counting the several girlfriends I had post split). I have a lover, or fwb, and she comes to me on the weekend for sex. She's super high drive and we have awesome sex. 

You always hear women say they love sex just as much as men - but they don't seem (from what I experienced with my ex and from what I hear from other guys) to initiate very often.

Is it because women know they can pretty much get it whenever, and they enjoy making the man work for it?

Sex is awesome. Life's short - we should be boinking all the damn time.


----------



## moth-into-flame

turnera said:


> Goodguy, I'll tell you a big secret a lot of people don't know. YOU have an idea of what your wife wants, but you have no idea probably if what you THINK your wife wants is what she really wants.
> 
> In other words, if you do the dishes because you think that should make her love you, but she frankly doesn't give the kitchen two seconds' thought, you are wasting your time. In reality, she's been harboring resentment against you because she has asked you 3 times to hang up those window boxes she bought 2 years ago.
> 
> So guess what? You ain't gettin' none!
> 
> Go to marriagebuilders.com and print out the Love Buster questionnaire, and ask her to fill it out. It will tell you what YOU are doing that causes her to resent you and not be in the mood. It will tell you what to STOP doing.
> 
> If you can make a concerted effort to stop doing all your LBs, she will probably become more interested in you.
> 
> THEN, you print out their Emotional Needs questionnaire and ask her to fill it out. It will tell you what are the most important things in HER life - things like honesty, conversation, domestic support, financial support...it's different for each person.
> 
> You need to know what her top 5 ENs are, and you need to make sure that you always are the one person meeting all those ENs for her. Make her think warm fuzzies when she thinks of you because you're always making her happy.
> 
> Then she will want to have sex with you (barring emotional issues preventing her from doing so). Women typically have to be emotionally connected with their man before they will want to have sex; their sex drive is usually not as high, so it's not their body pushing them to have sex; and they won't have sex just to have sex, like many men will - there has to be emotion involved. That's why many men say their wife just lays there. To them - not getting their ENs met or harboring resentment for LBs - they believe the man just wants their cavity and couldn't care less if she was a blowup doll - and they know it - why else would he just ignore everything that means anything to her (her ENs)?


Sorry, but that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. You constantly read about the woman's emotional needs not being met - and so she denies her husband sex. I'm sure it's not the case for everyone - but the "I need my emotional needs met before you can have what you want" seems to be a very, _very_ one way street.


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## Todd Haberdasher

Unless she is trying to get pregnant, this seems like a very unlikely scenario. I know we all wish porn stars were how real women are, but let's face it, to them sex is a chore like folding laundry. They know they have to but who the hell gets excited about folding laundry?


----------



## mrsluvmyhub

I'm a wife and I do 80% of the initiating. However, I find it a HUGE TURN OFF to initiate! I feel that the man should be pursuing the wife and "convincing" her to have sex by getting her aroused and making her feel desired. My hubby isn't LD, but will easily be absorbed in a computer game or YouTube, so I need to initiate to get his attention. Lol

I personally never have headaches (maybe 3 a year), but I never say "No" to my husband for any reason. (I believe it's morally wrong to deprive your spouse in this way.) So a headache or other pain (I have other pain regularly) wouldn't be an excuse for me. Actually endorphins are released during sex. So sex provides pain relief!! So I think the "headache" is just an excuse. Migraines are a different kettle of fish though - legitimate reason to decline for those that suffer with that. Only had 2 of those in my life! Worst thing ever. Severe headche with nausea, visual disturbances and dizziness. Not possible to do anything other than lie completely still and hope you're not dying!


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## Todd Haberdasher

mrsluvmyhub said:


> My hubby isn't LD, but will easily be absorbed in a computer game or YouTube, so I need to initiate to get his attention. Lol


Why did you marry a 12 year old boy? Computer games? Isn't it time he grew the hell up?


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## hylton7

a few times yes its mostly me though


----------



## Mr The Other

Todd Haberdasher said:


> Why did you marry a 12 year old boy? Computer games? Isn't it time he grew the hell up?


While I am not into gaming, there are worse things. And is there anyone here who does not spend time on internet messageboards?


----------



## ChargingCharlie

Not in many years - I don't think sex ever crosses her mind. She's too busy complaining about how tired she is and sitting on her ass playing on her computer - sex would cut into that time and we can't have that. I even think she has ESP - last summer she was going out of town for a week. The evening before she was leaving, we took the kids to an event near our house (within walking distance), and I was planning on mentioning on the way back how we should take advantage of that time. Before I could start, she immediately went into how her head hurt, how tired she was, how she had to pack, etc etc. I just gave up - I'm convinced she knew what I was planning and wanted to nip it in the bud.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

My wife does more of the initiating now, but that hardly means we're having more sex. After years of a very low batting average, I took myself out of the lineup for the most part. It's best if she initiates, because I never turn her down. By shifting initiation to her, nobody ever gets turned down. I've learned to read some subtle signs that she's receptive, so I'll go ahead and initiate then. There are other times I initiate simply because I still feel its important to reassure her I still find her desirable, even if she's not going to respond as I'd like. Without keeping at least that little bit of spark, all hope would be lost. 

There is one problem with her initiating though. She is a morning person and I am most definitely not. It can be a real struggle for me to perform early in the morning, but I do and although I can get up for the event, and maintain it long enough to be worth her while, the sensation is significantly muted and it's not all that pleasurable.


----------



## bankshot1993

Wow, I have to say what an eye opening thread.

I too find myself struggling with this and I see a number of women have posted explaining/justifying why it should be the man that initiates. To be honest some of those justifications make sense but I would also point out that it makes sense that they go both ways.

To those women that believe it is the mans job to initiate and pursue, I will point out that all the reasons you feel that way are also valid for him. he wants to feel desired just like you do and when you go months or years without initiating what do you think that is making him feel like? If he didn't initiate with you for years how undesirable and unwanted would you feel?

In my relationship it is I that does all the initiating and much to my wife's credit she never turns me down. I'm sure if I tried molesting her every night she would oblige my advances willingly. The problem is that my sex life basically consists of her laying their while I do things to her. If I want sex I get it started and she just lays there. When I'm warming her up Its me that goes down on her for a half hour to get her warmed up. When we have sex I move her around into what ever position I want her in and she just goes with it and when its over she will go get cleaned up then come back and cuddle until we go to sleep. sounds awesome doesn't it!!!, Its not.

Maybe I shouldn't complain because at least I get to have sex but that's not how I feel. I want somebody that is an active participant in our sex life. I want her to initiate it sometimes just so I know that she wants it too and she's not doing it simply to appease me because the only thing that makes me feel worse than getting no sex is when I get duty sex. The sex partner I have right now could easily be replaced by one of those pose-able silicone sex dolls.

Duty sex makes me feel like having to engage in a physical relationship with me is like some kind of punishment and let me tell you this does nothing for somebodies ego.

Ladies, I can't stress this enough, don't leave it up to your husband all the time to initiate sex, if you love him and want to show him that you love him try being the aggressor every now and then just so he knows that he is desired. You don't have to if you don't want to but don't be surprised when the sex life fails and the divorce talks start. I've been seriously thinking about divorce for quite a while now and it is over this one simple issue.


----------



## DepressedHusband

Wow, I demand sex, and you should too, the deal is, resource provision for sexual access, any woman denying her man this is cuckolding them, do not tolerate it whatsoever.


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## Diana7

bankshot1993 said:


> Wow, I have to say what an eye opening thread.
> 
> I too find myself struggling with this and I see a number of women have posted explaining/justifying why it should be the man that initiates. To be honest some of those justifications make sense but I would also point out that it makes sense that they go both ways.
> 
> To those women that believe it is the mans job to initiate and pursue, I will point out that all the reasons you feel that way are also valid for him. he wants to feel desired just like you do and when you go months or years without initiating what do you think that is making him feel like? If he didn't initiate with you for years how undesirable and unwanted would you feel?
> 
> In my relationship it is I that does all the initiating and much to my wife's credit she never turns me down. I'm sure if I tried molesting her every night she would oblige my advances willingly. The problem is that my sex life basically consists of her laying their while I do things to her. If I want sex I get it started and she just lays there. When I'm warming her up Its me that goes down on her for a half hour to get her warmed up. When we have sex I move her around into what ever position I want her in and she just goes with it and when its over she will go get cleaned up then come back and cuddle until we go to sleep. sounds awesome doesn't it!!!, Its not.
> 
> Maybe I shouldn't complain because at least I get to have sex but that's not how I feel. I want somebody that is an active participant in our sex life. I want her to initiate it sometimes just so I know that she wants it too and she's not doing it simply to appease me because the only thing that makes me feel worse than getting no sex is when I get duty sex. The sex partner I have right now could easily be replaced by one of those pose-able silicone sex dolls.
> 
> Duty sex makes me feel like having to engage in a physical relationship with me is like some kind of punishment and let me tell you this does nothing for somebodies ego.
> 
> Ladies, I can't stress this enough, don't leave it up to your husband all the time to initiate sex, if you love him and want to show him that you love him try being the aggressor every now and then just so he knows that he is desired. You don't have to if you don't want to but don't be surprised when the sex life fails and the divorce talks start. I've been seriously thinking about divorce for quite a while now and it is over this one simple issue.


What does she say when you talk to her about this?


----------



## DayOne

Not often, no. And it would be enjoyable if she was the initiator more often. But she does let me know that if I do, she'll be GTG.


----------



## Celtic

My partner does but it took a while for me to realise that we have different approaches to things. I mean when it comes to me initiating I usually just start touching her or give her the look; when she initiates its often a cuddle or a request for us to go watch television upstairs. She then starts touching me to get the fire stoked so to speak. 

At first I thought that her requests were just that, she only wanted a cuddle or only wanted to watch television but despite internally protesting about it, I eventually realised it was just her way of approaching the same thing I wanted. 

That said I would love for her to say she wants me to pound her over the kitchen table sometime!


----------



## DepressedHusband

Celtic said:


> My partner does but it took a while for me to realise that we have different approaches to things. I mean when it comes to me initiating I usually just start touching her or give her the look; when she initiates its often a cuddle or a request for us to go watch television upstairs. She then starts touching me to get the fire stoked so to speak.
> 
> At first I thought that her requests were just that, she only wanted a cuddle or only wanted to watch television but despite internally protesting about it, I eventually realised it was just her way of approaching the same thing I wanted.
> 
> *That said I would love for her to say she wants me to pound her over the kitchen table sometime!*


just assume that's a yes and go for it.


----------



## Celtic

DepressedHusband said:


> just assume that's a yes and go for it.


We usually do give the kitchen furniture a good work out most weekends but having her demand it (or assume the position without my guidance) would be a massive turn on. I think that everyone wants to feel wanted, for us men often sexually, so the more our women demand our manly loins the more excitement it generates.


----------



## ChargingCharlie

Celtic said:


> We usually do give the kitchen furniture a good work out most weekends but* having her demand it (or assume the position without my guidance) would be a massive turn on*. I think that everyone wants to feel wanted, for us men often sexually, so the more our women demand our manly loins the more excitement it generates.


Agree with the bolded - my ex-GF would be sitting next to me watching TV, and she'd just pull my pants down and start playing with my junk, and then put my hands on her boobs so I could fondle her (being a D cup, she had plenty to fondle). Wife has the sex drive of a chair, so those days are long gone.


----------



## Married but Happy

ChargingCharlie said:


> Agree with the bolded - my ex-GF would be sitting next to me watching TV, and she'd just pull my pants down and start playing with my junk, and then put my hands on her boobs so I could fondle her (being a D cup, she had plenty to fondle). Wife has the sex drive of a chair, so those days are long gone.


My wife is like your ex-gf. My ex-wife is like your wife.


----------



## ChargingCharlie

Married but Happy said:


> My wife is like your ex-gf. My ex-wife is like your wife.


Maybe I'm married to your ex, and you're married to mine. 

Sad thing is I remember the wife putting on a nighty and climbing on top of me in the chair in the upstairs TV room, having sex on the floor before heading to a friend's house, or coming home from dinner, having sex, then heading over to a neighbor's. Now when we go out, when we're heading home she makes sure to let me know just how tired she is and that she can't wait to get into her pj's and head to sleep.


----------



## WilliamM

My wife wore a short skirt to attract my attention, then smiled at me, back in 1972. That was her idea of throwing herself at me. 

It is my job to initiate sex. She never says no. 

Probably over 15 thousands times now. I have initiated sex every time. 

I don't recall ever asking her why she doesn't initiate sex. It never crossed my mind to care. As I said, she never says no.


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## jaquen

Absolutely. Just as much as me, and at times, more if she's feeling extra. There have been rare periods where I was doing most of the initiation, and when that happens it's usually because she's having some body image issue and just doesn't feel comfortable being as forward and aggressive. Those times are always addressed head on.

I would actually hate being a situation where I was the one initiating all, or even the majority, of the time. I'm actually turned on by a woman initiating, wanting me. It's hot when my wife just wants me, and goes after what she wants.


----------



## RamAirLS1

Maybe once every 3 months if that. Eats away at me slowly after 18 years of marriage not feeling wanted. I love sex, could probably have sex every day with a willing partner. She doesn't reject me really but does not understand men need to feel desired too. I have talked to her about it but no change at all. I still find her very attractive and i am still in good shape myself, muscular build and still have all my hair...thanks mom! I compliment her, come up from behind and kiss her neck. Often a light smack on the butt which she enjoys, put my arm around her...all that stuff because i enjoy it. But still get nothing in return.

We went out awhile ago and had a great time. Had dinner, drinks and good conversation. I brought up going home for some buzzed sex to which she replied..."i will probably just throw up." Even alcohol doesn't get her in the mood. That's how all of our nights out end, once we get home the night is over for her. Im honestly tired of trying as i feel like her emotional needs get met and thats where it ends. I pay all the bills and do most of the cleaning, she does 3/4 of the cooking and homework etc with the kids. Once the kids get old enough i am probably out, life is short and i really don't wanna spend the last 20-30 years of it with someone who won't even try at something that is important to me.


----------



## lovelygirl

RamAirLS1 said:


> Maybe once every 3 months if that. Eats away at me slowly after 18 years of marriage not feeling wanted. I love sex, could probably have sex every day with a willing partner. She doesn't reject me really but does not understand men need to feel desired too. I have talked to her about it but no change at all. I still find her very attractive and i am still in good shape myself, muscular build and still have all my hair...thanks mom! I compliment her, come up from behind and kiss her neck. Often a light smack on the butt which she enjoys, put my arm around her...all that stuff because i enjoy it. But still get nothing in return.
> 
> We went out awhile ago and had a great time. Had dinner, drinks and good conversation. I brought up going home for *some buzzed sex *to which she replied..."i will probably just throw up." Even alcohol doesn't get her in the mood. That's how all of our nights out end, once we get home the night is over for her. Im honestly tired of trying as i feel like her emotional needs get met and thats where it ends. I pay all the bills and do most of the cleaning, she does 3/4 of the cooking and homework etc with the kids. Once the kids get old enough i am probably out, life is short and i really don't wanna spend the last 20-30 years of it with someone who won't even try at something that is important to me.


That's vulgar. You don't put a woman in the mood for sex by phrasing it like that. Try not to use the word "sex" but instead, approach her by telling her that you'd love to *make love to one-another.* 

If she's not responding to your desires, first make sure you learn her *love language*. Just because you pay the bills and do most of the cleaning doesn't make you more of a man in her eyes. Learn what are the ways she feels loved, act that way THEN she can start reciprocating to your desires. Do you compliment her constantly throughout the day, every day? Do you take her out on dates often? Do you flirt with her on daily basis? (not just once in a while when it's time for sex and you grab her from behind).

There's a reason why she's withholding sex from you mostly because she doesn't feel sexy around you and you might not giving your 100% to make her feel a sexy lady, your lady. 
For women it's VERY psychological when it comes to sex. With another man she could be pumping it up ...but with you maybe there's something missing in the way you are around her. 

If it is that serious, you SHOULD have a serious talk with her about this, not just a small talk hoping she will get it. No. It doesn't work like that. Then, if she takes your seriously(depending on how you'll approach it) she might think in through.


----------



## minimalME

lovelygirl said:


> That's vulgar. You don't put a woman in the mood for sex by phrasing it like that. Try not to use the word "sex" but instead, approach her by telling her that you'd love to *make love to one-another.*


Meh. It depends on the woman and the timing. I don't find it vulgar at all, and, being extremely high strung, I mainly drink to feel uninhibited and associate alcohol with great sex. 

If it's quick and raunchy, the words can be more crass.

If we're being kind and affectionate, then saying we're making love would feel very nice.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

minimalME said:


> Meh. It depends on the woman and the timing. I don't find it vulgar at all, and, being extremely high strung, I mainly drink to feel uninhibited and associate alcohol with great sex.
> 
> If it's quick and raunchy, the words can be more crass.
> 
> If we're being kind and affectionate, then saying we're making love would feel very nice.


Or one can lead to the other. 

I’ll never forget one session in which I was delicately and lovingly manually stimulating my wife...

... when my otherwise prom, proper, and reserved (especially sexually) wife suddenly grabbed me, and bored into me with direct wide-eye contact, and blurred out “Doesn’t that just make you want to ****!”

Some surprises are most welcome


----------



## Personal

lovelygirl said:


> That's vulgar. You don't put a woman in the mood for sex by phrasing it like that. Try not to use the word "sex" but instead, approach her by telling her that you'd love to *make love to one-another.*


My wife has no problem with the word sex.

Likewise through close to 22 years of being together and sharing a considerable amount of frequent sex together. My wife and I have never used the term "make love", since we both find the term too soppy and cringeworthy.

Instead I use the following terms on the occasions I initiate sex via verbalising it; Do you want to? I am going to have you. I am going to do you. Take your panties off and bend over. You will have to put my penis in your mouth. Put my penis in your mouth. I am going to **** (f word) you. Get on your knees and put it in your mouth. I want you to take your panties off and open your legs.

While my wife says the following when she initiates sex via verbalising it; Do you want to do it? Do you want to have me? Do you want to have sex? You can have me if you like. Let's do it. Let's have sex. Do you want to **** (f word)? Let's **** (f word). You can **** (f word) me if you like.

What my wife and I say to each other as described above, seems to work very well for us.

Although you and others may prefer the term "make love to one-another", I've been with plenty of woman who don't use the term and don't care for it.

There is simply no one size fits all for all women or all men.


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## Funnygirl2018

I hear ya! i always have to initiate with absolutely no foreplay from my husband. Ever! He lies there and takes it all in.. I don't approach him anymore and am thinking of looking elsewhere to get my needs met. This sure isn't what I signed up for


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## Funnygirl2018

I hear ya.. I always have to initiate, while my husband lies there like he's dead.. He never touches me, I'm like what the hell? I avoid sex with him now..I mean what's the point?


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## [email protected]

lovelygirl said:


> That's vulgar. You don't put a woman in the mood for sex by phrasing it like that..


Speak for yourself honey.

I am dirty, dirty, dirty with the wife. I don't recall every using the words "making love", lol. That isn't what we do. It's more like a world war III porn fest. 

Pro tip for the guys: never turn your wife down. You want a future of no sex? Just hurt her pride that way. You'll get what you deserve. This is your job.

Pro tip for the girls: you start off with a BJ and if that doesn't work then your husband is not human. A cyborg replacement. 

We don't have a regular schedule. It is every day, but if we haven't already done it then it doesn't need to be said that we are going to get it on as we go to bed. She likes me to order her upstairs, that happens a lot. She initiates at times. Offers a lot of BJ's compared to what I am hearing around this forum, anyway.


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## ConanHub

Hmm. Would love Mrs. Conan to talk dirty in the bedroom.

That being said, she initiates 2-3x a week and I am maybe initiating once every week or two.

I can get her to initiate almost anytime by walking or laying around partially nude. She is very visual and always gets hot when she sees my unit in any phase of arousal.

She also never turns me down. I turn her down at least once or twice a week but this dynamic didn't start until a little over two years ago when we experienced trauma in our lives partially brought on by her selfish manipulation/betrayal in our relationship. I'm working on getting better at physically loving her. I lost all interest for a while and we have been healing.

Before our drama, I would initiate every day, several times a day and she was too busy trying to keep up to worry about seducing me.

I'm still very HD but just MB a lot plus, she is experiencing some minor health issues that can interfere with sex a little and I'm using that to keep my distance.

Just convicted myself. I'm going to work on physically loving her more.


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## lovelygirl

Personal said:


> Instead I use the following terms on the occasions I initiate sex via verbalising it; Do you want to? I am going to have you. I am going to do you. Take your panties off and bend over. You will have to put my penis in your mouth. Put my penis in your mouth. I am going to **** (f word) you. Get on your knees and put it in your mouth. I want you to take your panties off and open your legs.
> 
> While my wife says the following when she initiates sex via verbalising it; Do you want to do it? Do you want to have me? Do you want to have sex? You can have me if you like. Let's do it. Let's have sex. Do you want to **** (f word)? Let's **** (f word). You can **** (f word) me if you like.


Any of the above expressions is WAY better than the plain boring "let's have sex". It's effortless, not interesting ...and it wouldn't turn me on to the slightest.

Can you be devilishly seducing and give me a hot sex without necessarily expressing it plainly and boringly? 

You don't attract my attention like that. When i say v_ulgar_ it's not about it being something shameful, it's about _turn off._
You can be dirty (which I like) yet not vulgar or plain.

a) "Let's have sex"

b) "I want to pump you up tonight, hard and full, 'til it hurts! Suck you to the fullest! " 


See the difference between a) and b) ? 

You don't have to be as romantic as "let's make love". But at least you put an effort in turning me on, even by being dirty. 

Same boredom would bring to me the expression "*some buzzed sex*", when I quoted above @RamAirLS1 

It's basic and it doesn't cross my mind to want to have sex with you.


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## bkyln309

[email protected] said:


> Speak for yourself honey.
> 
> I am dirty, dirty, dirty with the wife. I don't recall every using the words "making love", lol. That isn't what we do. It's more like a world war III porn fest.
> 
> Pro tip for the guys: never turn your wife down. You want a future of no sex? Just hurt her pride that way. You'll get what you deserve. This is your job.
> 
> Pro tip for the girls: you start off with a BJ and if that doesn't work then your husband is not human. A cyborg replacement.
> 
> We don't have a regular schedule. It is every day, but if we haven't already done it then it doesn't need to be said that we are going to get it on as we go to bed. She likes me to order her upstairs, that happens a lot. She initiates at times. Offers a lot of BJ's compared to what I am hearing around this forum, anyway.


My boyfriend is not into BJs which is unfortunate since I enjoy giving them. He doesnt stay hard that way long.


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## Lovingwife71

bankshot1993 said:


> Wow, I have to say what an eye opening thread.
> 
> I too find myself struggling with this and I see a number of women have posted explaining/justifying why it should be the man that initiates. To be honest some of those justifications make sense but I would also point out that it makes sense that they go both ways.
> 
> To those women that believe it is the mans job to initiate and pursue, I will point out that all the reasons you feel that way are also valid for him. he wants to feel desired just like you do and when you go months or years without initiating what do you think that is making him feel like? If he didn't initiate with you for years how undesirable and unwanted would you feel?
> 
> In my relationship it is I that does all the initiating and much to my wife's credit she never turns me down. I'm sure if I tried molesting her every night she would oblige my advances willingly. The problem is that my sex life basically consists of her laying their while I do things to her. If I want sex I get it started and she just lays there. When I'm warming her up Its me that goes down on her for a half hour to get her warmed up. When we have sex I move her around into what ever position I want her in and she just goes with it and when its over she will go get cleaned up then come back and cuddle until we go to sleep. sounds awesome doesn't it!!!, Its not.
> 
> Maybe I shouldn't complain because at least I get to have sex but that's not how I feel. I want somebody that is an active participant in our sex life. I want her to initiate it sometimes just so I know that she wants it too and she's not doing it simply to appease me because the only thing that makes me feel worse than getting no sex is when I get duty sex. The sex partner I have right now could easily be replaced by one of those pose-able silicone sex dolls.
> 
> Duty sex makes me feel like having to engage in a physical relationship with me is like some kind of punishment and let me tell you this does nothing for somebodies ego.
> 
> Ladies, I can't stress this enough, don't leave it up to your husband all the time to initiate sex, if you love him and want to show him that you love him try being the aggressor every now and then just so he knows that he is desired. You don't have to if you don't want to but don't be surprised when the sex life fails and the divorce talks start. I've been seriously thinking about divorce for quite a while now and it is over this one simple issue.


I know this message is fairly old but I wanted to respond for your sake and/or for anyone else reading. I am a woman who does most of the initiating. My husband SAYS that it is because I "know" he always wants it (which for the most part is true, but there are times he has been tired. I will say, he MIGHT have a higher drive than I do though) but that he doesn't know if I want it and he doesn't want to be turned down. For the record, I can't think of the last time I turned him down. But that's neither here nor there. I KNOW my body and if I go too long without having sex, it starts to really not bother me at all. I don't think about nor care about it. But I know that my husband needs/wants it. He is not like me, the longer we go without it, doesn't make him desire it less. LOL. I also know that the more I have it, the more I want it and need it myself. So I make it a point to not go too long without it because I know what will happen. I know that if I stay up later, stay on my computer, don't go to bed with him, etc. will make him feel rejected (even when that is not the case at all). I make it a point to get whatever I need to get done, early enough, so that I can go to bed at the same time as he does. I close my computer when he goes to bed, and either take off all of my clothes, or put on a real nice bra/panty set, and cuddle up next to him. That skin to skin contact is necessary. We usually start off just watching tv, and he knows as soon as I start touching him, or probably as soon as I get into bed with him, that it's gonna be a good night. But besides that, I always make sure to tell him that I love him and he or I will text each other the next day and talk about how great the night before was. Thinking and talking about how great it was sets the stage for the next night.
I agree it is important for both to initiate. For now, I am ok with doing most of the initiating because, other than sex, he makes me feel like I am the most important person/thing in his life and treats me like a queen. So I feel that, letting him know I not only want sex with him, but absolutely enjoy it, is a very small price for being lucky to have such a great guy.


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## UpsideDownWorld11

"Make Love" HAHAHAHAHAHA!! Hit me square in the face if I ever say that!


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

bkyln309 said:


> My boyfriend is not into BJs which is unfortunate since I enjoy giving them. He doesnt stay hard that way long.


How does this happen? All the BJ-starved dudes out there who's SOs don't wanna, and the rare woman who does dig it ends up with the one fella who doesn't dig it. :banghead:


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## Personal

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> How does this happen? All the BJ-starved dudes out there who's SOs don't wanna, and the rare woman who does dig it ends up with the one fella who doesn't dig it. :banghead:


It happens easily since as usual all men don't want the same things.

As to rarity, are you sure it's rare for a woman?


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Personal said:


> It happens easily since as usual all men don't want the same things.
> 
> As to rarity, are you sure it's rare for a woman?


Of course all men don’t want the same things, bot most do want BJs. Just check any poll or survey on the topic.

Ditto women; it may or may not be what you would call “rare,” but ladies who are enthusiastic about giving are far less icommon than men who are enthusiastic about giving. That is if most surveys can be trusted.


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## GettingIt_2

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Ditto women; it may or may not be what you would call “rare,” but ladies who are enthusiastic about giving are far less icommon than men who are enthusiastic about giving. That is if most surveys can be trusted.


Ladies who are enthusiastic about giving often need a partner who isn't shy about asking . . . or better yet, just taking. I'm not saying it's always the case, but I think there is a recognizable sexless dynamic characterized by a woman who needs a man who is willing to almost always initiate, and initiate aggressively and persistently, in order to draw her out and satisfy her sexually. When a woman like this is paired with a man who is put off by that need, then sex isn't a reliable occurrence in the marriage.

ETA: So all that is to say that I'm not sure that there is a dearth of women who are enthusiastic about giving so much as those women just don't have the right conditions in which to enthusiastically give.


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## Windwalker

Personal said:


> It happens easily since as usual all men don't want the same things.
> 
> As to rarity, are you sure it's rare for a woman?


Thank you



Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Of course all men don’t want the same things, bot most do want BJs. Just check any poll or survey on the topic.
> 
> Ditto women; it may or may not be what you would call “rare,” but ladies who are enthusiastic about giving are far less icommon than men who are enthusiastic about giving. That is if most surveys can be trusted.


I have to admit. I could take them or leave them. It just doesn't do that much for me. It's just one of those things. Meh. 

YMMV


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## 23cm

Sex!!!!!!????

My wife!!!!!????

No.


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## Fozzy

GettingIt_2 said:


> Ladies who are enthusiastic about giving often need a partner who isn't shy about asking . . . or better yet, just taking. I'm not saying it's always the case, but I think there is a recognizable sexless dynamic characterized by a woman who needs a man who is willing to almost always initiate, and initiate aggressively and persistently, in order to draw her out and satisfy her sexually. When a woman like this is paired with a man who is put off by that need, then sex isn't a reliable occurrence in the marriage.
> 
> ETA: So all that is to say that I'm not sure that there is a dearth of women who are enthusiastic about giving so much as those women just don't have the right conditions in which to enthusiastically give.


Hmm.

Is there a reason you believe this? Because I've seen the same polls/statistics that Yeti has, but not many supporting your view.


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## 269370

GettingIt_2 said:


> Ladies who are enthusiastic about giving often need a partner who isn't shy about asking . . . or better yet, just taking. I'm not saying it's always the case, but I think there is a recognizable sexless dynamic characterized by a woman who needs a man who is willing to almost always initiate, and initiate aggressively and persistently, in order to draw her out and satisfy her sexually. When a woman like this is paired with a man who is put off by that need, then sex isn't a reliable occurrence in the marriage.
> 
> ETA: So all that is to say that I'm not sure that there is a dearth of women who are enthusiastic about giving so much as those women just don't have the right conditions in which to enthusiastically give.




That’s very true. However this will only work if the wife LETS you take it.
I’m sure there are instances where trying to take it, might result in rape charges being pressed...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 269370

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Of course all men don’t want the same things, bot most do want BJs. Just check any poll or survey on the topic.
> 
> 
> 
> Ditto women; it may or may not be what you would call “rare,” but ladies who are enthusiastic about giving are far less icommon than men who are enthusiastic about giving. That is if most surveys can be trusted.




I only have a sample of one but she was always quite enthusiastic about giving when she was doing it. It used to be sometimes difficult to get the whole thing rolling but once there, she generally seemed to like it...I think she likes more the fact how much it turns me on rather than the act itself. Or maybe I’m wrong. But I noticed this and it took me a while to understand that that’s the main turn on with most of these things. She has an echo-like desire. If I’m not radiating horniness, she would rarely be horny spontaneously herself though sometimes she is. She needs me to lead/dominate. Sometimes very aggressively. It’s funny, sometimes she would thank me after a particularly demeaning session with her  it’s kind of messed up but I like that she likes it so much. I would do anything as long as I see her enjoying something a lot. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## GettingIt_2

Fozzy said:


> Hmm.
> 
> Is there a reason you believe this? Because I've seen the same polls/statistics that Yeti has, but not many supporting your view.


Admittedly, I've not seen surveys or polls that gauge relative "enthusiasm of giving" between men and women. What I have seen--here and other places, as well as "in real life"--is a type of sexual mismatch in which lack of enthusiasm on the wife's part is assumed by the husband because her desire and sexuality doesn't work more like his does--in other words, with a certain degree of spontaneity. 

If we TAM for example, it's the husband who frequently shows up describing this dynamic. We don't often get the benefit of the wife's POV. And even if we did, the marriage is often so tainted by years of sexual resentment from both parties that honest assessment is nigh impossible. 

I think dynamics in which a fairly or very sexually submissive woman is paired with a very or fairly sexually "careful" or "non-aggressive" man devolve fairly rapidly. The pairing might work fine for a couple of years, but it does seem to eventually fall into a pattern of the man accepting rejection "too soon," and then a pattern becomes established that is really, really hard to reverse.


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## Faithful Wife

GettingIt_2 said:


> Admittedly, I've not seen surveys or polls that gauge relative "enthusiasm of giving" between men and women. What I have seen--here and other places, as well as "in real life"--is a type of sexual mismatch in which lack of enthusiasm on the wife's part is assumed by the husband because her desire and sexuality doesn't work more like his does--in other words, with a certain degree of spontaneity.
> 
> If we TAM for example, it's the husband who frequently shows up describing this dynamic. We don't often get the benefit of the wife's POV. And even if we did, the marriage is often so tainted by years of sexual resentment from both parties that honest assessment is nigh impossible.
> 
> I think dynamics in which a fairly or very sexually submissive woman is paired with a very or fairly sexually "careful" or "non-aggressive" man devolve fairly rapidly. The pairing might work fine for a couple of years, but it does seem to eventually fall into a pattern of the man accepting rejection "too soon," and then a pattern becomes established that is really, really hard to reverse.


I'm not one of the women you describe, but I have known or read the stories of several who are. 

It's a very difficult dynamic indeed, unless both people play their cards right and then it can be an awesome dynamic.

For women who feel this way, I've heard them describe it as if their husband simply can't be in anything except a supplication role when it comes to initiating sex. And I'm going to say that as I look in on some of these relationships, in many cases she should have seen that going in. But new love hormones and blah blah blah...we can't see what we can't see. When the relationship was newer, sex happened more frequently of course. But what happens is that the man then thinks oh goodie this is how it will always be (with no effort on his part to get things going) and the woman thinks oh goodie he has enough lust to make this fun, not realizing that he will quickly stop initiating if he perceives a rejection. And the man is confused when he does perceive rejection because earlier sex just happened naturally.

The woman over time is completely turned off by his supplication. She may even try to tell him what she needs. One of my friends has told her husband "I'm sorry but the way you initiate just really turns me off. Instead of coming up and kissing me on the neck, please just grab my hand and confidently lead me off to bed." She also would welcome some dirty talk and wishes he would be more aggressive in general. She would be and feel more aggressive too if he took the lead in that way. But that just isn't his style and he told her so. He said he is turned off by aggressive behavior in himself or anyone else. He would rather learn tantric sex exercises together.

So you now have a mismatch wherein both sides are literally a turn off to the other. Neither is right or wrong, this is a personal thing and we can't help what turns us on or off. 

Like GettingIt said, this can be very difficult to turn around if not impossible, depending on the players involved. 

Honestly I think it requires a few separate sexual relationships in your life for a person to see how that beginning phase will most likely not be the way things always are. It is very confusing because everything feels so right and easy .... but if you don't know about new relationship hormones, you could be in for a big surprise when they wear off.


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## Fozzy

Faithful Wife said:


> I'm not one of the women you describe, but I have known or read the stories of several who are.
> 
> It's a very difficult dynamic indeed, unless both people play their cards right and then it can be an awesome dynamic.
> 
> For women who feel this way, I've heard them describe it as if their husband simply can't be in anything except a supplication role when it comes to initiating sex. And I'm going to say that as I look in on some of these relationships, in many cases she should have seen that going in. But new love hormones and blah blah blah...we can't see what we can't see. When the relationship was newer, sex happened more frequently of course. But what happens is that the man then thinks oh goodie this is how it will always be (with no effort on his part to get things going) and the woman thinks oh goodie he has enough lust to make this fun, not realizing that he will quickly stop initiating if he perceives a rejection. And the man is confused when he does perceive rejection because earlier sex just happened naturally.
> 
> The woman over time is completely turned off by his supplication. She may even try to tell him what she needs. One of my friends has told her husband "I'm sorry but the way you initiate just really turns me off. Instead of coming up and kissing me on the neck, please just grab my hand and confidently lead me off to bed." She also would welcome some dirty talk and wishes he would be more aggressive in general. She would be and feel more aggressive too if he took the lead in that way. But that just isn't his style and he told her so. He said he is turned off by aggressive behavior in himself or anyone else. He would rather learn tantric sex exercises together.
> 
> So you now have a mismatch wherein both sides are literally a turn off to the other. Neither is right or wrong, this is a personal thing and we can't help what turns us on or off.
> 
> Like GettingIt said, this can be very difficult to turn around if not impossible, depending on the players involved.
> 
> Honestly I think it requires a few separate sexual relationships in your life for a person to see how that beginning phase will most likely not be the way things always are. It is very confusing because everything feels so right and easy .... but if you don't know about new relationship hormones, you could be in for a big surprise when they wear off.


I do have some doubts about the percentage of these issues that are caused by power dynamics vs baseline sexuality, however I would concede that it does account for SOME of it.

In cases of mismatch stemming from power dynamics, "fixing" it would most often mean someone faking who they really are, and even then I think that it could potentially only work if one partner doesn't know the other partner well enough to know it's fake.

Once you have a couple 15 or 20 years into a marriage, and they know each others' personalities intimately--for one of them to just have a complete personality about-face would be immediately transparent (and possibly just creepy).


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## Faithful Wife

Fozzy said:


> I do have some doubts about the percentage of these issues that are caused by power dynamics vs baseline sexuality, however I would concede that it does account for SOME of it.
> 
> In cases of mismatch stemming from power dynamics, "fixing" it would most often mean someone faking who they really are, and even then I think that it could potentially only work if one partner doesn't know the other partner well enough to know it's fake.
> 
> Once you have a couple 15 or 20 years into a marriage, and they know each others' personalities intimately--for one of them to just have a complete personality about-face would be immediately transparent (and possibly just creepy).


In the case I described, I wouldn't call that mismatch being caused by power dynamics. They simply each have a different sexual vibe to them. Him soft and tantric, her rough and tumble. She wasn't asking him to dominate her or make her submit to him (that is not her flavor).

I also wouldn't have a clue what percentage of cases the case I described would represent. I just know it is a real thing (what GettingIt was describing about the sexual nature of some women). I'm not in that camp so I can only go by what I've read and heard and people I've known personally.

Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you mean by a power dynamic? I just see a mismatch of basic sexual nature.


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## Fozzy

Faithful Wife said:


> In the case I described, I wouldn't call that mismatch being caused by power dynamics. They simply each have a different sexual vibe to them. Him soft and tantric, her rough and tumble. She wasn't asking him to dominate her or make her submit to him (that is not her flavor).
> 
> I also wouldn't have a clue what percentage of cases the case I described would represent. I just know it is a real thing (what GettingIt was describing about the sexual nature of some women). I'm not in that camp so I can only go by what I've read and heard and people I've known personally.
> 
> Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you mean by a power dynamic? I just see a mismatch of basic sexual nature.


I probably misread what you were trying to say based on your use of the word "supplication". I took that to mean like a weak or submissive initiation.


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## GettingIt_2

inmyprime said:


> That’s very true. However this will only work if the wife LETS you take it.
> I’m sure there are instances where trying to take it, might result in rape charges being pressed...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, absolutely. 

For couples who are naturally compatible in this area, I think sex just happens (as it does between sexually compatible couples of all stripes.) There isn't necessarily a need for intentional self-awareness about one's sexuality when one's sex life is humming along. 

But when a couple's sex life isn't great (maybe it never was, maybe it used to be but isn't anymore), and when one or both partners want it to be, some deeper understanding of what is at play can be illuminating and helpful. 

Of course it's always better if both people are working towards a common goal, and consent and communication are essential. However, I do think that sometimes one partner can step back and take a look at a failed dynamic and try some things on his or her own to improve it. One thing that comes to mind is the myriad women who have posted here about how unattractive it is when her partner pouts or gets pissy when rejected, or stops initiating. Hands down I think that's one of the worst things a man can do in response to sexual rejection when partnered with a woman whose sexuality responds best to a sexually aggressive and confident man. However, I also think that being paired with a woman like that is one of the worst things for a man who doesn't like to be sexually aggressive and dominant, and for whom a pattern of rejection is painful enough to shut him down. It's a really, really tough mismatch. 

But it's also a mismatch that can develop over time, not one that always occurs as a result of two sexually incompatible people getting together. 

It's the "evolve over time" dynamic that I notice here on TAM the most (probably because that was the problem in my marriage.) Sex was great for the first few years--maybe it was the new relationship hormones, maybe it was just that life was less stressful before kids, careers, home ownership, etc. And then a period of sexlessness ensues, bad habits are formed and accepted because it's easier than fighting about it, eventually resentment and reassignment sets it--and voila, you arrive at the Sex in Marriage forum on TAM. My husband and I aren't naturally incompatible, but overcoming 10 years of bad habits and bad feelings and finding our way back to our natural state of compatibility wasn't easy.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

And things wax and wane normally throughout many years. As long as a couple are on the same sheet of music it's all good, no tension. For us, we were still very active through the kids years but when kids grown/out of the house we were back to our normal which was more. 
And nekkid in the whole house again.  

On topic, I still initiate 95% of the time, but that's our pattern, no worries there. It's just what we do, YMMV. On that.
I've never been concerned about initiating most of the time I guess, still don't. Sometimes I just take "it"...that's my perk for "bearing" the responsibility I suppose. My favorite is middle of night or in the morning. Or on Saturdays late morning with no rush. 
But we always know everything is a team effort. 

It's strange but good, we almost automatically switched back to our "before kids" time period, short though that was. I do all the normal things like send flowers for holidays or just because, blessed with good career, church leader, good Dad, pay bills etc.  not that I'm perfect, or either of us...but 33 yrs good.


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## Mr.Married

GettingIt_2 said:


> Ladies who are enthusiastic about giving often need a partner who isn't shy about asking . . .
> 
> ETA: So all that is to say that I'm not sure that there is a dearth of women who are enthusiastic about giving so much as those women just don't have the right conditions in which to enthusiastically give.


Bingo! Create the conditions and the giving shows up. I believe the truth is most men just want the wife to be more HD like them with no effort one their own part...they just want. I used to think my wife was LD...I was wrong. It took us about 6 months of open communication and effort to really get on track. The key factor was I changed myself. My wife now initiates as much as I do or at least will
create a situation where she is available to me for sex if I like.


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## Hav1t

lisa1994 said:


> Hi, Guys, there are many times I long to have sex but it seems like he doesn't have any desire at all. women has so much to do in the evening, dinner, homework, make sure all the kids washed and go to bed on time, clean dshes, check emails, paying bills, by the time I go to bed, he is sound sleep.... guys, if you want to have sex, help your wife to do chaos, help your wife with kids, then she will lay down at the same time, you will get want you want... I do want him to make love with me all the time, but I don't get it because he is sleeping by the time I got into the bed. so who to blame?


Wow.. No wonder he does no desire it, you sound like your just doing him a favour. He could get what your giving him from a hooker.


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## FalCod

I initiate more than my wife. She usually initiates only a couple of times a week.

When it really comes down to it, we both give off and watch for signals about whether the other person is interested or too tired or preoccupied. So the initiation is more of a mutual thing.


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## MichelleThoughts

My marriage isn't perfect but I'd say our sexual compatibility is one of our strengths. My husband initiates more than me but I prefer him to be more dominant anyway. I probably initiate a third of the time on average. I think we would both be disappointed if it were totally one-sided.


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## happiness27

Mr.Married said:


> Bingo! Create the conditions and the giving shows up. I believe the truth is most men just want the wife to be more HD like them with no effort one their own part...they just want. I used to think my wife was LD...I was wrong. It took us about 6 months of open communication and effort to really get on track. The key factor was I changed myself. My wife now initiates as much as I do or at least will
> create a situation where she is available to me for sex if I like.


True. The metaphor is: my husband's sex is a toggle switch and mine is a rheostat. Once he got that through his head completely, he was, like !!!!!!!

He will gladly have sex for two or three hours. He really doesn't seem to mind it at all. :grin2:


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## RamAirLS1

RamAirLS1 said:


> Maybe once every 3 months if that. Eats away at me slowly after 18 years of marriage not feeling wanted. I love sex, could probably have sex every day with a willing partner. She doesn't reject me really but does not understand men need to feel desired too. I have talked to her about it but no change at all. I still find her very attractive and i am still in good shape myself, muscular build and still have all my hair...thanks mom! I compliment her, come up from behind and kiss her neck. Often a light smack on the butt which she enjoys, put my arm around her...all that stuff because i enjoy it. But still get nothing in return.
> 
> We went out awhile ago and had a great time. Had dinner, drinks and good conversation. I brought up going home for some buzzed sex to which she replied..."i will probably just throw up." Even alcohol doesn't get her in the mood. That's how all of our nights out end, once we get home the night is over for her. Im honestly tired of trying as i feel like her emotional needs get met and thats where it ends. I pay all the bills and do most of the cleaning, she does 3/4 of the cooking and homework etc with the kids. Once the kids get old enough i am probably out, life is short and i really don't wanna spend the last 20-30 years of it with someone who won't even try at something that is important to me.



Just an update to hopefully help others that were in my previous situation. I took a step back several months after posting this and decided to try a different approach. I felt like I was doing a lot to connect with my wife emotionally but just wasn't clicking on her end obviously. So I asked her to watch a movie one night and just sat there with my arm around her the entire time with really no expectations at all, I actually fell asleep several times. After it was over we went upstairs and I was ready for bed. What happened next shocked me, she literally attacked me....no joke she grabbed me by the junk and it was on. After that I made a point to do that type of thing very often, just sit down and spend time embracing one another and it has completely changed our relationship. I literally have not asked for sex in months, she initiate's all the time now, it has really blown my mind. We probably have sex 5 - 6 times a week and she can not get enough, she was never this active...even when we first got together almost 25years ago. So there still may be hope guys, good luck!


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## .335487

In the past few years, yes. Before that, maybe twice a year.

I used to do the chasing. Now, I don't.

Not how I want things to turn out but that is how it is.


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## Mr.Married

The ego busting truth: Men....it's your own fault.

Women contain more sexual desire, capacity, endurance, and capabilities than we do...It's your job to bring it out...sorry to bust your bubbles.

Everyone on this board has read the stories of the "supposedly LD" wife turned into smoking sex bomb by her new lover...

Get to work.......on yourself.


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## Clockwork

freddie_fender said:


> Curious, but we have been together for 8 years, no kids. Within those 8 years, my wife has probably initiated sex less than 5 times.
> 
> We have discussed it numerous times, how it would be nice if she took the lead the odd time. But still, it never happens. I believe the last time she initiated sex was at least 2 years ago.
> 
> Is this odd? Is it too much to ask of her to initiate once in a awhile? Any comments would be wonderful! Thank you.


That is a long time without her initiating it. With me and my wife I would say that it is a 80/20 split. I initiate it the most. Maybe even 90/10. It isn't that she will never do it, it is just that I am always ready to do it and beat her to it. On the weekends once the kids are woken up and contained (cartoons, etc.) she'll come up and "wake" me up with her on top of me. That's always nice. But we're men, so I guess it is natural to be the aggressor more often.


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## .335487

Mr.Married said:


> The ego busting truth: Men....it's your own fault.
> 
> Women contain more sexual desire, capacity, endurance, and capabilities than we do...It's your job to bring it out...sorry to bust your bubbles.
> 
> Everyone on this board has read the stories of the "supposedly LD" wife turned into smoking sex bomb by her new lover...
> 
> Get to work.......on yourself.


Really depends on the situation. Takes 2 to tango. If your partner is already looking elsewhere, why continue? Don't rely on an absent partner for your needs.


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## uhtred

Sometimes, sometimes not.

Lots of different situations, and averages are a poor guide to individual situations. 

Looking at yourself is fine - but there isn't always a problem to fix. 





Mr.Married said:


> The ego busting truth: Men....it's your own fault.
> 
> Women contain more sexual desire, capacity, endurance, and capabilities than we do...It's your job to bring it out...sorry to bust your bubbles.
> 
> Everyone on this board has read the stories of the "supposedly LD" wife turned into smoking sex bomb by her new lover...
> 
> Get to work.......on yourself.


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## Faithful Wife

uhtred said:


> Sometimes, sometimes not.
> 
> Lots of different situations, and averages are a poor guide to individual situations.
> 
> Looking at yourself is fine - but there isn't always a problem to fix.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr.Married said:
> 
> 
> 
> The ego busting truth: Men....it's your own fault.
> 
> Women contain more sexual desire, capacity, endurance, and capabilities than we do...It's your job to bring it out...sorry to bust your bubbles.
> 
> Everyone on this board has read the stories of the "supposedly LD" wife turned into smoking sex bomb by her new lover...
> 
> Get to work.......on yourself.
Click to expand...

Totally agree.

In your case Uhtred, I’m positive there is not a man who could light your wife’s fire. She is just very lowly sexual and very specific about her needs (low or not). She isn’t responding to you but she wouldn’t to any man.

If she was suddenly in a new relationship, she may have more sex as most people do in new relationships. And then she would revert right back to who she is. And if he expected the sex to continue, she would look at him like he was asking for something unreasonable.

She is not self aware. She thinks the way she is is how most women her age are, and she isn’t likely to change that thinking ever, whether you are in the picture or not.

I don’t like it when men have turned on a previously sexless woman and then think there is a secret that unlocks every woman. The same is true for men. There are some men who are nearly asexual like your wife and they think there is nothing wrong with them, but most people including other men would say he’s just cheating or fapping too much.

I wish people would understand there is a significant portion of the population who are simply always going to be LD (minus some NRE moments).

In the case of a man or woman who was LD for their partner, but would be HD for a different partner, I don’t think any victory can be claimed here. If you were mismatched and not grooving sexually, then matched really well and do groove sexually, then you simply found you were LD for your previous partner but not necessarily LD in general. So a woman who claims some new man “made” her HD when she wasn’t before. I’m sorry, no. It doesn’t work that way.


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## DTO

Mr.Married said:


> Women contain more sexual desire, capacity, endurance, and capabilities than we do...It's your job to bring it out...sorry to bust your bubbles.


Hmmm, not so sure about this. I think that men's testosterone level and emotional ability to focus on getting it rather than being pulled in a dozen different directions gives men the edge in desire, if not the other aspects noted above.



Mr.Married said:


> Everyone on this board has read the stories of the "supposedly LD" wife turned into smoking sex bomb by her new lover...


A big part of why an affair or new person makes women (and men) hotter is (1) the newness itself and (2) the new person isn't associated with any of the drudgery of everyday life. You don't see your new lover's illnesses, struggles with (often difficult) children, trying to make ends meet, etc. Those times with a new lover or an affair partner are escapes from everyday life, which is a huge part of the appeal.

My sense is that unless the man is a very poor husband, a new sex partner (or affair partner that comes to the starting lineup) triggers a temporary increase in drive followed by a reversion to the mean. A lot of that is borne out by my own experiences with new partners. A new person is fresh and exciting, with a unique sexual style and perhaps new (to you) ways of doing things. Then after a while some of the newness wears off and it doesn't hold the same luster. And maybe some warts pop up in their behavior that makes them less appealing.

It's a real thing.


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## happiness27

GettingIt_2 said:


> Yes, absolutely.
> 
> For couples who are naturally compatible in this area, I think sex just happens (as it does between sexually compatible couples of all stripes.) There isn't necessarily a need for intentional self-awareness about one's sexuality when one's sex life is humming along.
> 
> But when a couple's sex life isn't great (maybe it never was, maybe it used to be but isn't anymore), and when one or both partners want it to be, some deeper understanding of what is at play can be illuminating and helpful.
> 
> Of course it's always better if both people are working towards a common goal, and consent and communication are essential. However, I do think that sometimes one partner can step back and take a look at a failed dynamic and try some things on his or her own to improve it. One thing that comes to mind is the myriad women who have posted here about how unattractive it is when her partner pouts or gets pissy when rejected, or stops initiating. Hands down I think that's one of the worst things a man can do in response to sexual rejection when partnered with a woman whose sexuality responds best to a sexually aggressive and confident man. However, I also think that being paired with a woman like that is one of the worst things for a man who doesn't like to be sexually aggressive and dominant, and for whom a pattern of rejection is painful enough to shut him down. It's a really, really tough mismatch.
> 
> But it's also a mismatch that can develop over time, not one that always occurs as a result of two sexually incompatible people getting together.
> 
> It's the "evolve over time" dynamic that I notice here on TAM the most (probably because that was the problem in my marriage.) Sex was great for the first few years--maybe it was the new relationship hormones, maybe it was just that life was less stressful before kids, careers, home ownership, etc. And then a period of sexlessness ensues, bad habits are formed and accepted because it's easier than fighting about it, eventually resentment and reassignment sets it--and voila, you arrive at the Sex in Marriage forum on TAM. My husband and I aren't naturally incompatible, but overcoming 10 years of bad habits and bad feelings and finding our way back to our natural state of compatibility wasn't easy.


Amen. 

"Hands down I think that's one of the worst things a man can do in response to sexual rejection when partnered with a woman whose sexuality responds best to a sexually aggressive and confident man."

And: 

"My husband and I aren't naturally incompatible, but overcoming 10 years of bad habits and bad feelings and finding our way back to our natural state of compatibility wasn't easy."

This is a terrible situation where a woman finally gets brave enough to open a conversation about "What do you like?" and "Here's what I like" and nothing changes and the conversations go nowhere and the sex never changes - so frustration sets in.

In our own dynamic, we both love sex but our approaches are different.


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## anonmd

I did almost all the initiating (and got rejected say 10 to 98% of the time as the years past) for 20 years. Now I do none of the initiating because I finally realized it was all about control on her part. If she wanted control she could have it, and by the way once a month if you are lucky sucks so have at it. Frequency still sucks but it is better than it was and the constant internal doubts are mostly gone.


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## Rocinante67

freddie_fender said:


> Curious, but we have been together for 8 years, no kids. Within those 8 years, my wife has probably initiated sex less than 5 times.
> 
> We have discussed it numerous times, how it would be nice if she took the lead the odd time. But still, it never happens. I believe the last time she initiated sex was at least 2 years ago.
> 
> Is this odd? Is it too much to ask of her to initiate once in a awhile? Any comments would be wonderful! Thank you.


Yes, my wife initiates sex. In recent years, often.

She did not always do this and we've had some rough times. It is not unreasonable to ask your wife to initiate sex.


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## In Absentia

yes... twice in 33 years... :laugh:


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## Personal

In Absentia said:


> yes... twice in 33 years... :laugh:


Evidently you have both been doing it wrong.


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## 269370

In Absentia said:


> yes... twice in 33 years... :laugh:



Jesus!! 
(That’s how long he lived, apparently).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## In Absentia

InMyPrime said:


> Jesus!!
> (That’s how long he lived, apparently).


Yes, the age of Jesus, I call it... it feels like I have been through crucifixion, but I don't seem to be able to rise again (yet)... :laugh:


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## In Absentia

Personal said:


> Evidently you have both been doing it wrong.


Obviously... but those two times were amazing! I didn't have to wake her up doing intercourse... :laugh:


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## Stormguy2018

Mine never does. Way back in the day once in a while. Not in a decade or so. Pretty depressing.


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## notmyjamie

These kinds of threads just piss me off. It's so depressing to read a thread where guys are complaining about not having sex when I'm married to someone (hopefully not for much longer though!!!) who would rather get hit by a bus than have sex with me. Sigh. I chose poorly, very very poorly and these threads just highlight that for me a bit too much. 

I guess on the bright side, it's nice to know there are men out there that do want it and so I have a small chance of not spending the rest of my life in celibacy. LOL


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## Faithful Wife

notmyjamie said:


> These kinds of threads just piss me off. It's so depressing to read a thread where guys are complaining about not having sex when I'm married to someone (hopefully not for much longer though!!!) who would rather get hit by a bus than have sex with me. Sigh. I chose poorly, very very poorly and these threads just highlight that for me a bit too much.
> 
> I guess on the bright side, it's nice to know there are men out there that do want it and so I have a small chance of not spending the rest of my life in celibacy. LOL


Of course, you have much more than a small chance.

You should read threads by people who were sexless and are now in the sex life of their dreams with someone new! There are a few like that around here.


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## ConanHub

notmyjamie said:


> These kinds of threads just piss me off. It's so depressing to read a thread where guys are complaining about not having sex when I'm married to someone (hopefully not for much longer though!!!) who would rather get hit by a bus than have sex with me. Sigh. I chose poorly, very very poorly and these threads just highlight that for me a bit too much.
> 
> I guess on the bright side, it's nice to know there are men out there that do want it and so I have a small chance of not spending the rest of my life in celibacy. LOL


If I recall your physical description, I don't believe you have trouble attracting attention. 

Here's hoping you have a better picker for a good mate this go around!


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## RideofmyLife

It's kind of a kinky thing, but I gave control of my orgasms to my husband. I had stopped initiating sex many years ago and he was frustrated and unhappy. After discussing it together, we decided that he could say when I could orgasm. I would need his permission. So I masturbate but I don't let myself orgasm. I try to do it at least three times a day and that keeps my motor warm, so to speak. My increased sex drive leads to me initiating a lot more often. 

We have a much happier and more enjoyable sex life due to this. Of course, this only works with women who want to see something improve and they think this could be a way to make that happen. I would love it if my husband was more aggressive. More dominating. But that's just not who he is, so in the meantime, this works for us.


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## ConanHub

RideofmyLife said:


> It's kind of a kinky thing, but I gave control of my orgasms to my husband. I had stopped initiating sex many years ago and he was frustrated and unhappy. After discussing it together, we decided that he could say when I could orgasm. I would need his permission. So I masturbate but I don't let myself orgasm. I try to do it at least three times a day and that keeps my motor warm, so to speak. My increased sex drive leads to me initiating a lot more often.
> 
> We have a much happier and more enjoyable sex life due to this. Of course, this only works with women who want to see something improve and they think this could be a way to make that happen. I would love it if my husband was more aggressive. More dominating. But that's just not who he is, so in the meantime, this works for us.


Good to hear from you again! How are you two doing?


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## RideofmyLife

We're doing great! Thanks for asking. It's all smooth sailing lately.


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## kenyaone

Yes,it has necessarily be me.

Sent from my Lenovo X2-AP using Tapatalk


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## In Absentia

notmyjamie said:


> These kinds of threads just piss me off.


It is depressing indeed! I don't really want to divorce my wife, but she's left me no option. Now, she doesn't even want to kiss me on the lips when we see each other. She's completely gone. We are separating, so no kiss on the lips... WTF? You've been married to me for over 30 years... :frown2:


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## notmyjamie

In Absentia said:


> It is depressing indeed! I don't really want to divorce my wife, but she's left me no option. Now, she doesn't even want to kiss me on the lips when we see each other. She's completely gone. We are separating, so no kiss on the lips... WTF? You've been married to me for over 30 years... :frown2:


Well, once you know you're separating/divorcing, kissing and affection naturally go away in most relationships I think. My husband does still try now and again to initiate a kiss or a hug and I have zero interest in that. At least for now. You have basically told your wife that what she has to offer you isn't enough for you and she is responding to that. She's detaching from you to prepare for your eventual departure. Can't really blame her for that. (To be clear, you have more than enough reason to leave...I'm shocked you've stayed as long as you have to be honest.)


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## notmyjamie

ConanHub said:


> If I recall your physical description, I don't believe you have trouble attracting attention.
> 
> Here's hoping you have a better picker for a good mate this go around!


You're very sweet but I don't feel that way at all. I'm trying very hard to lose some weight I gained when I hurt my back and was partially paralyzed for a year back in 2016. I gained 55lbs and although I've lost 30 of it, I still just feel so gross. I'm working on the last 25 but to be honest, I needed to lose a little even before I even gained...so I really need to lose 35lbs. And it's just not budging!!!! Not good for the ole' self esteem I tell ya!!! :frown2:

As for being a better picker...I think what I need is for someone else to pick for me. I'm 3/3 picking guys with serious mental health issues. They weren't just annoying stuff, these were real, sometimes dangerous issues. I wonder if I can hire someone to do my choosing for me because I obviously suck at it. :laugh:


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## ConanHub

notmyjamie said:


> You're very sweet but I don't feel that way at all. I'm trying very hard to lose some weight I gained when I hurt my back and was partially paralyzed for a year back in 2016. I gained 55lbs and although I've lost 30 of it, I still just feel so gross. I'm working on the last 25 but to be honest, I needed to lose a little even before I even gained...so I really need to lose 35lbs. And it's just not budging!!!! Not good for the ole' self esteem I tell ya!!! :frown2:
> 
> As for being a better picker...I think what I need is for someone else to pick for me. I'm 3/3 picking guys with serious mental health issues. They weren't just annoying stuff, these were real, sometimes dangerous issues. I wonder if I can hire someone to do my choosing for me because I obviously suck at it. :laugh:


It will be 90% diet and lifestyle routine changes. Working out will never be disrespected by this barbarian but diet and lifestyle affects your very foundation.

I'm unsure how to help with your picker. It does sound pretty consistent now doesn't it?:wink2:


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## In Absentia

notmyjamie said:


> Well, once you know you're separating/divorcing, kissing and affection naturally go away in most relationships I think. My husband does still try now and again to initiate a kiss or a hug and I have zero interest in that. At least for now. You have basically told your wife that what she has to offer you isn't enough for you and she is responding to that. She's detaching from you to prepare for your eventual departure. Can't really blame her for that. (To be clear, you have more than enough reason to leave...I'm shocked you've stayed as long as you have to be honest.)


I understand it too, but it still hurts because it's only saying hello/goodbye with a peck on the lips. It's not like we are strangers or we hate each other. She decided to take sex off the table and now she is adopting her classic blame-shifting behaviour. Like it's my fault for leaving and not being able to remain in a sexless marriage. Go figure!


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## notmyjamie

ConanHub said:


> It will be 90% diet and lifestyle routine changes. Working out will never be disrespected by this barbarian but diet and lifestyle affects your very foundation.
> 
> I'm unsure how to help with your picker. It does sound pretty consistent now doesn't it?:wink2:


I will admit my dietary habits were horrible for a long time. When I couldn't walk, cooking was not a priority. My husband took over that responsibility and he just ordered out every night. I'm back to cooking healthy and finding that meal planning is a big help. My biggest problem is that I don't eat enough. In order to lose weight, I need to eat breakfast, snack, lunch, snack, dinner and snack. OMG...that's non stop eating and I hate it. But I've been forcing myself to do it because when I don't my metabolism goes into starvation mode. It's difficult for me at work though...many days I don't get lunch or even time to grab a snack. I'm a nurse...I don't have time for cards or food most of the time. 

And damn...I was hoping you'd pick for me!!!! :laugh: 



In Absentia said:


> I understand it too, but it still hurts because it's only saying hello/goodbye with a peck on the lips. It's not like we are strangers or we hate each other. She decided to take sex off the table and now she is adopting her classic blame-shifting behaviour. Like it's my fault for leaving and not being able to remain in a sexless marriage. Go figure!


Well, in her mind, I'm sure it is your fault. She thought life was just grand and then you start making crazy demands for things like sex. If she doesn't want it you shouldn't want it. 

I think that you're looking for those signs of affection from her because you still love her despite everything. At the moment she's doing a better job of detaching than you are. If you want to leave, you need to detach and leave. End of story. Otherwise, make the decision that you are staying and the affection might return. You'll have affection but not sex in your marriage. Can you live with that? Can you live with going back out there and trying to find someone else? Only you can decide. But living in limboland is doing neither you nor your wife any good.


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## StillSearching

Does your wife ever initiate sex?...

Yes with other men.


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## In Absentia

notmyjamie said:


> Can you live with that? Can you live with going back out there and trying to find someone else? Only you can decide. But living in limboland is doing neither you nor your wife any good.


I will leave (although nobody believes me here... :laugh... what I resent is that she is turning against me, denying a little civil exchange like a kiss on the lips, like it's my fault for not staying. Or not able to love her without sex. I thought she was bigger than that. I was wrong.


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## notmyjamie

StillSearching said:


> Does your wife ever initiate sex?...
> 
> Yes with other men.



Same as my husband. Ouch.


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## notmyjamie

In Absentia said:


> I will leave (although nobody believes me here... :laugh... what I resent is that she is turning against me, denying a little civil exchange like a kiss on the lips, like it's my fault for not staying. Or not able to love her without sex. I thought she was bigger than that. I was wrong.


To be perfectly honest, I'm not sure why you'd want that from her unless you, yourself, have not detached. If you're planning to leave her, the best thing you can do for yourself is start to detach now. Otherwise, when that magical day comes, you won't be able to leave. 

She might be thinking that she thought you were bigger than only loving her if she has sex with you. And she resents that you aren't. There are two ways to look at everything. I think withholding sex, love, and affection are reasons to end a relationship but not everyone agrees with me. 

It's a tough situation all around but again, if you really want to leave, you need to detach. Stop asking for those signs of love and affection from her. They will just prolong your misery.


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## WorkingWife

In Absentia said:


> I will leave (although nobody believes me here... :laugh... what I resent is that she is turning against me, denying a little civil exchange like a kiss on the lips, like it's my fault for not staying. Or not able to love her without sex. I thought she was bigger than that. I was wrong.


I stayed in the house with my ex for months after filing for divorce for financial reasons to help him. It was a mistake. You can't move on but you also can't have the good old days. 

Even though in reality it was she who rejected you for years, you are now rejecting her back. You may still be friends but as you know from years of it -- it's not easy to be under the same roof with someone who is rejecting you. I would get out of there as soon as possible. It's only after you're not living in the same house that you can really start your new life. You're prolonging the misery and building up resentments on both sides by living together while planning divorce.


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## ConanHub

StillSearching said:


> Does your wife ever initiate sex?...
> 
> Yes with other men.


Hahaha! Boo! LoL!:laugh:


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## In Absentia

notmyjamie said:


> To be perfectly honest, I'm not sure why you'd want that from her unless you, yourself, have not detached.


No, I haven't detached completely. I still love her and I would want the marriage to continue, but I can't be with my wife, love her and not touch her or make love to her. So, I have to go. It's torture to me. I still like the little signs of affection, though, but I can understand she is probably disappointed too. At the end of the day, we have chosen a different lifestyle. What I cannot understand is why she "doesn't get it" and she has to behave like a child. She's made a choice and these are the consequences. She should be mature enough not to bear a grudge.


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## In Absentia

WorkingWife said:


> I would get out of there as soon as possible.


That's my plan. But it's not straightforward with the kids and the financial arrangements. And I will miss my dog immensely.


----------

