# Submitting to the Truth



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

People sometimes ask how we're doing (Janie and me). I always tell them we're improving - and we are. Keep in mind, during reconciliation, one cannot talk their way out of something they've behaved their way into. My personal guru - RDJ - speculates that it takes 3 months of positive proactive behavior to "undo" every year of wretched reactive behavior.

Suffice it to say, we have to be getting close. We've been married 5 years and together for nearly 7. The wretched reactive behavior (for me) started in September of 2006 as the fitness testing began in earnest. So, I've got less than a year to go.

Along the way, I've continued to study and teach this stuff as voraciously as I've ever attacked anything in my life.

And, I think she and I hit upon an interesting philosophical intersection that has some rather profound implications.

During 2011, Janie and I separated twice - she moving out both times. And, that was the first time I made efforts at standing up for the things that were bothering me. As you might expect, there was some serious negative energy associated with self-justification, angling for the victim chair, flaw-picking, whatever you want to call it. There was also some serious hostility and defensiveness.

The mother of all breakthroughs for me - personally - came in November of 2011. I've described it a few times as the moment I saw my OWN blameshifting and my OWN anger. If you read HappyKaty's current thread, you'll see the process of realizing that the pos tendencies you simply despise in your spouse are likely present in you as well. AND... here's the thing... your spouses will NEVER own those tendencies in themselves until YOU get right with you. There's a certain inauthenticity that arrives with pointing fingers when you're doing the same thing. Both on the drama triangle at something approaching warp speed.

Remember, to see through others, we must FIRST see through ourselves. That's what we mean by working on ourselves.

She and I had a conversation the other night where she admitted she felt I was trying to "break" her... and I told her I was merely trying to get her to submit. She said, "To you!?"

I said, "I want us both to submit - to the truth"

What can I tell you? When you are centered and right with yourself, the words come. She accepted that testimony and now she is on a mad search of Eastern philosophy, Christianity, Buddhism, etc. for that common thread. Being centered and submitting to the truth.

For you see, we ALL know what it is.

The "still small voice" that Moses obeyed is the SAME still small voice talking in your head when your boundaries get overrun.

It's the same still small voice that feeds you the words you need when you're centered in an authentic place.

Buddhism commands that you "return to stillness" when in turmoil. Yes, we dig deep in ourselves and search out the "still small voice"

And, a Christian story finally started to make sense to me. After Jesus' ascension, the disciples were afraid. Jesus told them the Holy Spirit would be sent as their "helper"

On Pentecost, the disciples were suddenly preaching without fear. Standing rock-ribbed and proclaiming Christ's message in the town square. The Bible records that "even though they weren't speaking in the language of the listeners, they were still understood."

As a kid, I was puzzled by this? How many foreigners were in town anyway on that day?

I now understand the disciples dropped their fears and the words came out wrapped in love. And, they were received, internalized, and heard/understood by the crowds.

THIS is what we work for. This is what I'm about here. I can tell you that Janie has suffered as much childhood abuse as anyone here - and this still small voice that speaks to me is one that she can hear - but ONLY once I got hold of my authentic self and dropped all pretense and codependent behaviors.

I'm now hearing this voice in the popular culture as well. Study the lyrics to this tune. And, let's talk about it:

_*Learn to Be Still - Don Henley

It's just another day in paradise
As you stumble to your bed
You'd give anything to silence
Those voices ringing in your head

You thought you could find happiness
Just over that green hill
You thought you would be satisfied
But you never will
Learn to be still

We are like sheep without a shepherd
We don't know how to be alone
So we wander 'round this desert
And wind up following the wrong God's home

But the flock cries out for another
And they keep answering that bell
And one more starry-eyed messiah
Meets a violent farewell
Learn to be still, learn to be still

Now the flowers in your garden
They don't smell so sweet
Maybe you've forgotten
The heaven lying at your feet

There are so many contradictions
In all these messages we send
(We keep asking)
How do I get out of here
Where do I fit in?

Though the world is torn and shaken
Even if your heart is breaking
It's waiting for you to awaken
And someday you will
Learn to be still, learn to be still

You just keep on running
Keep on running
*_


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

I struggle with this mightily. I don't even know who I am anymore or what I am suppose to become. The little mistakes that have gotten me here - continue to play out. I observe what I am doing, yet the old record keeps playing.

The puzzle pieces are all over the place, yet I can't put them together.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

ReGroup said:


> I struggle with this mightily. I don't even know who I am anymore or what I am suppose to become. The little mistakes that have gotten me here - continue to play out. I observe what I am doing, yet the old record keeps playing.
> 
> The puzzle pieces are all over the place, yet I can't put them together.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's truly a process.

It really helps if you have a "safe man".

That's what counselors are supposed to be. But, working through your junk isn't for the faint of heart. You have to be honest with yourself and take note of your own emotions and drain the defensiveness from your thinking.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

ReGroup said:


> I struggle with this mightily. I don't even know who I am anymore or what I am suppose to become. The little mistakes that have gotten me here - continue to play out. I observe what I am doing, yet the old record keeps playing.
> 
> The puzzle pieces are all over the place, yet I can't put them together.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Think about this.

You were willing to take on HER chaos... and you have not yet sorted through your own.


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

Beautifully written, Conrad, and incredibly informative. We peons really appreciate your insight and truthfulness.  Thanks for sharing this.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Y'all are my muse at times.
I have said this recently..

"It's like I had all 500 pieces of the puzzle, but I didn't know how to put them together".

In one weekend, I read the Four Agreements, and then the Fifth Agreement, and followed that up with Emotional Vampires. Then I tried to read the basics of Buddhism.

For me, it has not been ONE thing or one book or one thought or notion. It has been 500 pieces from 50 sources, and it starts to fall together. 

The ending of the Four Agreeements... where the old man takes his heart out his chest, and passes the flame onto you, the reader. 

It moves me, it motivates me, and yet it fills me with sadness.
As my spouse has no idea what I am even talking about.

This self awareness journey, finding similar souls, the intense peace, happiness, and overwhelming motivation to continue has been the best thing that ever happened to me. So I walk on my own path. I'm not afraid of being alone anymore. I actually crave the chance to be alone,and fully focus on things.

My compassion for my husband continues to grow, but I'm no longer sharing ideas with him.

I'm so pleased you have someone to share this with, Conrad. 
That is something special, indeed.


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

It would have been a recipe for disaster - that I know now. 

I truly hate who I was during the marriage; with a passion. I always made an excuse for who I was and what I wanted to do (nothing for myself - therefore becoming a less productive husband and father). 

I didn't take the initiative to better myself on a daily basis; convinced that being the stagnant ME was the "right" way to live.

I sank and sank - never realizing that their was something wrong... It took "this" to realize that their were major issues with the way I conducted myself, who I was, and accepting that their is work to be done. 

I wasn't true to myself - how could be truthful to anyone else.

Damn it all.

Chip, at least you are doing better in your situation and it serves as a great example of what could be attained with some good honest hard work.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## K.C. (Dec 1, 2012)

I feel the need to fully digest this before really saying anything.

Right now I will just go with two words; 

Damn.
Thanks.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

ReGroup said:


> It would have been a recipe for disaster - that I know now.
> 
> I truly hate who I was during the marriage; with a passion. I always made an excuse for who I was and what I wanted to do (nothing for myself - therefore becoming a less productive husband and father).
> 
> ...


I fully appreciate where you are coming from ReGroup (it also took a bomb to explode for me to see some of the stuff I'd been doing) but I also think that in a marriage it is incumbent on the partner to communicate and assist. You're in a marriage by choice, because you love your partner and ostensibly you want to spend your lives with that person. That requires tolerance, patience and communication. It's not like you were deteriorating in a vacuum. Mrs. ReGroup was there - what did she have to say about it? Did you dismiss her observations?


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Conrad, you mention R but I didn't think there was infidelity in your marriage.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

staystrong said:


> Conrad, you mention R but I didn't think there was infidelity in your marriage.


There really doesn't have to be.

She and I have lived together for all of 3 weeks the past 20 months.


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## loveispatient (Jan 10, 2013)

I'm sorry for not knowing your back-story, but it's interesting that in 20-months, you've "lived" together for 3-weeks. How do you handle a separation that long? Or is that not limbo in general? (Sorry, again, I have no background on your story - so am asking out of ignorance here!)

I read a lot of your posts and they are direct and insightful. Just trying to find myself in a better and "honest" place in our relationship if R is to work.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

loveispatient said:


> I'm sorry for not knowing your back-story, but it's interesting that in 20-months, you've "lived" together for 3-weeks. How do you handle a separation that long? Or is that not limbo in general? (Sorry, again, I have no background on your story - so am asking out of ignorance here!)
> 
> I read a lot of your posts and they are direct and insightful. Just trying to find myself in a better and "honest" place in our relationship if R is to work.


Loveispatient,

We're separated, but our commitment is to see each other every other day and live together on weekends when her kids are gone.

We're undeniably attracted to each other.

Some of my male friends actually think what is happening with me is "better" than actually having to live with someone.

I don't agree, but I'm totally ok with being alone now, as the song above says so well.


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## lostLove77 (Jan 25, 2013)

deejov - I just finished The Four Agreements today. Some very interesting concepts in there, and very hard agreements to take. I've been way too self-centered in my Life. I've taken everything personally. That will be an important but hard thing to work on.

Everything in my marriage and separation seems so personal!

Thanks for the post Conrad.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

lostLove77 said:


> deejov - I just finished The Four Agreements today. Some very interesting concepts in there, and very hard agreements to take. I've been way too self-centered in my Life. I've taken everything personally. That will be an important but hard thing to work on.
> 
> Everything in my marriage and separation seems so personal!
> 
> Thanks for the post Conrad.


Taking things personally leads us to blameshifting - the MOST counterproductive exercise in the human condition.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Good read. Best of luck to you both!


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

If the 3 month rule is right. I have at least 1.5 years to go. Our problems began at least 7 years ago.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> If the 3 month rule is right. I have at least 1.5 years to go. Our problems began at least 7 years ago.


I agree with the timeline. My problems spanned over many years so I have more to live down. I'm about halfway there in my marriage and it feels like it.

This is one of the reasons why I preach there are no quick fixes. Can't undo years worth of doing it wrong in a few months.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

lostLove77 said:


> deejov - I just finished The Four Agreements today. Some very interesting concepts in there, and very hard agreements to take. I've been way too self-centered in my Life. I've taken everything personally. That will be an important but hard thing to work on.
> 
> Everything in my marriage and separation seems so personal!
> 
> Thanks for the post Conrad.


It is all personal. But to the fixers and co-dependents... it's seems like responsibility. There is a difference.
Yes, it affects your personal life. How could it not? 
It's all one big fitness test, really.

Do you love?
Test one -- wear down your self esteem and see if you bite to "fix" the broken person.
You fail the test if you take the bait on fixing your broken spouse. The test was really about whether you failed to put yourself first. Not in the sense of your needs and wants... but your self esteem, itself.

The test was really Do you love yourself? It always is.

To take things personally can be to be a puppet. 
You are succumbing the will of YOUR life to the actions of someone else. You are allowing someone else to dictate your happiness, peace, and the direction of your life. 

No person has any power over you. You are free.

The Fifth Agreement gets more into "how" to do this.
How to question what you think, especially about yourself.

You have to know, memorize, what you think about yourself.
And consider yourself important enough to stay true to that. No matter what.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Marriage is not fvcking easy. In fact, it may be the hardest thing to save. I'm in my living room. Was in bed with the wife minutes ago. Had to get away. Felt like exploding. We were discussing our first MC appointment tomorrow and she didn't like my tone. She wants me to speak like a boy. Even the slightest sign of life in my voice is seen as aggressive by her. 

Who's the author of the 4 agreement book?


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

The Four Agreements Don Migue Ruiz
Second book came out, the Fifth Agreement. Repeats some of the same concepts, but adds a fitth "how to" put it into practice. Especially with the "don't take it personally".

There is an excerpt about going to a movie theatre.
You see a whole bunch of theatres, one has your name on it!
You go in and sit down, behind yourself. It's YOU watching how you perceive your life, and the people in it.

You go to another theatre, and it's your spouse. Watching their own life,and gee, they don't see YOU the same way at all!

Because everyone is in their own world, making their own assumptions, opinions, about a million pieces of information that we receive everyday. And we are all different. No one will see it exactly the same way you do. 

Of course she doesn't see you the way you see yourself!
So why would you take it personally? 
That's just her evaluation of the conversation. 
It's no different than her saying she dislikes the color blue.
That's her opinion, at the moment.
Someone else will see it differently from her.
Because we all process information differently.

So... thus the truth. 
What do YOU think of yourself? 
Why not just BE yourself? 
That's what you are supposed to do.
Be true to you. Not the ever changing opinions of other people.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lifescript said:


> Marriage is not fvcking easy. In fact, it may be the hardest thing to save. I'm in my living room. Was in bed with the wife minutes ago. Had to get away. Felt like exploding. We were discussing our first MC appointment tomorrow and she didn't like my tone. She wants me to speak like a boy. Even the slightest sign of life in my voice is seen as aggressive by her.
> 
> Who's the author of the 4 agreement book?


Stay centered.

You know what she wants.

DO NOT GIVE IT TO HER


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Women interpret restraint as strength.

You know this.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Thanks deejov. 

Sounds like I could benefit a lot from reading this book. 

Conrad, 

I know she is anxious for me to cave and step into the labyrinth of her drama. Won't happen. 

"What will he asked us. I just want to go and be out of there!". 

Two sentences meant to rile me up. I passed on it. 

But still ... fosh! This is hard. 

Ok. I'm going to stop complaining now.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

This isn't the easiest road.

It's just the one likely to be the most rewarding.

Keep that in mind.

"You done"?


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Yeah, I'm done.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> Even the slightest sign of life in my voice is seen as aggressive by her.


People don't like it when you change. This is a twist on "change back" that you hear about.

And can you blame her for wanting you back to where you were? Her cushy life where you jump when she says jump has ended. Of course she doesn't like it. LOL


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Mavash. said:


> People don't like it when you change. This is a twist on "change back" that you hear about.
> 
> And can you blame her for wanting you back to where you were? Her cushy life where you jump when she says jump has ended. Of course she doesn't like it. LOL


BUT... she's much more attracted to you this way.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Oh yeah, it's not showing in the intimacy department. I guess this is GTOHBR: Get The Old Him Back Resistance. LOL!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lifescript said:


> Oh yeah, it's not showing in the intimacy department. I guess this is GTOHBR: Get The Old Him Back Resistance. LOL!


Remain patient.

It will be like a dam breaking.

Will be difficult to come up for air.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> Oh yeah, it's not showing in the intimacy department. I guess this is GTOHBR: Get The Old Him Back Resistance. LOL!


Patience.

Remember this is a skill you need to work on.


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

Good thread. Lot of insightful discussion here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

Tell me about it - All of the Grand Masters participating.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

I'm VERY good at all this and yet just this past weekend I found myself angry at my husband. This was unusual as I rarely get angry anymore. Took a few days but then the light bulb came on. Yep I was doing it again. I wanted him to take ownership of a problem that I caused. Yes he had a part in it but that's out of my circle of influence.

The minute I saw this in myself and owned it peace returned in a flash. I apologized sincerely to my husband and we've been golden ever since (keep in mind I've been at this for years).

I love this saying and it applies here. I can't talk my way out of something I behaved my way into no matter how much I'd like to sometimes. LOL


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

I hear that. 

There's no way to undo the mess with words. They just add to it.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lifescript said:


> I hear that.
> 
> There's no way to undo the mess with words. They just add to it.


You done?


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

LOL. Just expressing myself Mr. Conrado. 
I'm done.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

LOL @ Life... although it's not funny, it's painful... but I had a similar thought this morning. I'm human, after all. I want intimacy, sex, all of it. But I'm married to someone who would only use it for ammo later, and it would be the old ways of manipulation and only when I "earned" it in his own warped way of looking at things.

I'm holding out for true intimacy. Based on love of me, just me. 
Love that accepts me as I am. No hoops, hurdles, punishments, or rewards. No more games. Just acceptance. 

Chances are it won't be my husband. Maybe it will be.
But I do believe that staying true to me is the right thing to do. 
Everything else feels wrong. 

I can have an amazing day at work, things go my way all the time. I get home, and I start feeling a heavy flutter in my stomach. I know what it is. It is his negative energy. I can feel it. It's his resentment towards me. 

I have no desire to go near it. Intimacy is the doorway to it.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Deej,

Learning to be Still.... beautifully written.

Are you two talking?


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

*Re: Re: Submitting to the Truth*



deejov said:


> LOL @ Life... although it's not funny, it's painful... but I had a similar thought this morning. I'm human, after all. I want intimacy, sex, all of it. But I'm married to someone who would only use it for ammo later, and it would be the old ways of manipulation and only when I "earned" it in his own warped way of looking at things.
> 
> I'm holding out for true intimacy. Based on love of me, just me.
> Love that accepts me as I am. No hoops, hurdles, punishments, or rewards. No more games. Just acceptance.
> ...


I know what that negative energy feels like. 

Staying true to yourself is the way to go.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Well ... told her I'm going out with the guys this weekend and she is furious. She now says my lack of consideration is unbearable and we should just split and forget about today's MC appointment. To avoid further thread jacking I've posted about it in a new thread in pvt section: Q&A.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lifescript said:


> Well ... told her I'm going out with the guys this weekend and she is furious. She now says my lack of consideration is unbearable and we should just split and forget about today's MC appointment. To avoid further thread jacking I've posted about it in a new thread in pvt section: Q&A.


Tell her you are still attending - regardless of whether she comes or not.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Define talking ?

I spent 5 weeks at my son's house when he got out of the hospital after xmas, helping him transition to his new life with type 1. During that time, I saw my husband for about 5 hours a week.
He did a LOT of drinking, and who knows what else. 
Being alone is his worst fear. Daily phone fights. HIm being angry that I wasn't doing his laundry and looking after him. Trying to make me choose between him and my son. It was a BAD time. I lived on 4 hrs of sleep for weeks. Work was insanely busy. I'm still recovering my energy. 

Let me explain that I needed to be with my son. Otherwise, they were going to have a social worker go check on him everyday. He lives alone, and really did need my help with adjusting to everything he needs to do to stay alive. And it was a huge huge mental support. It's a hard thing to go through.

During the last week (week 5) H decided he had had "enough" and let loose on me with some pretty nasty stuff. I responded with the separation papers and a list of assets. Start writing down what you want, and then YOU are going to leave. Not me. I am not going anywhere. This is my home, I put a lot of money and sweat into making it a nice place. I'll finish the rest of the renos myself. 

3 days later, my son decides to tell me that it's time for me to leave.... I can come visit, but he needs his space back and I need to just let him live or let live, fail or succeed, but he's independent to the core and he's "got it"now, so be a friend not my live in mother. 

I came home after spending 3 weeks of doing nothing but reading in my spare time. (Thus the 4 hrs of sleep every day) Affirmations, books, whatever I could get my hands on. I started with the whole "I'm afraid to live alone" issue. If my son can live alone with 5 weeks of experience of type 1, why can't I? Geez. Grow up.

"I came home with a brand new plan".

What do we talk about?
I talk to him about what I'm doing. He doesn't understand. He doesn't see anything in life beyond work and spending money. He says the "rest of it" isn't up to him. (there's the no accountability, thus no blame again).

I did apologize to him for everything I did that was mean, or disrepectful. And I meant it. And I told him I forgive him for it all.
He said.... nothing.

I have told him that I am no longer afraid of being alone, that I don't have the craving for someone to "love" me, that I feel very differently about myself, and that I will never EVER allow anyone to shake that again. He said... well, that's good for you.
Anything further than that turns into me getting angry.

Because he "thinks" he is well adjusted, and doing everything right. Because when I ask him what he thinks about resentments, he says he listened to the book The Garbage Truck so he knows how to let things go. (In the past, I would have brought up at least 5 examples of where he shows resentment and holds grudges).

Because he said he doesn't read well 
(he claims to have dyslexia, yet he will sit in front of the computer and read \ chat on a truck forum and read on the net for hours?)
thus he is not able to read any of the stuff I am talking about.
There's the excuse again. Not his fault. 

So he has shown me that he has NOT taken a good look at himself. And I've learned that I don't see him the same way he sees himself. He thinks he is A-okay. He is too afraid to do anything more. 

He admits that he isn't truly happy. He is happy for moments at a time, but always tired, physical aches and pains, a million excuses. Really, if he just found a job that paid lots of money so he could buy whatever he wanted, and had few hours, then he would be happy. 

He missed a day of work to go to ER. Extreme pain in his groin. He has a hernia. ER told him to follow up with his family dr and book surgery, but it's small, so no worries. He acted like it was a big surprise. I "reminded" him that this same thing happened over a year ago. And he still hadn't gone to see a dr. Oh yeah, he forgot about that. But right now, it's a good excuse for him to bail out of life. 

We are two different wavelengths. Completely. He doesn't see it. At all. That's okay. 

I also told him that certain days are MINE, and I will be doing my own thing. He is still getting used to that. He doesn't like it.


But there is no marriage.

When I came home and gutted my room. Redecorated with framed quotes, pictures, made some stuff myself. Quotes on being positive, things that mean something to me. I bought a ghetto blaster, and I fall asleep listening to the sound of the ocean. It's white noise that blocks out his snoring in the other room. It's my reminder when I go to bed, that we are just room-mates.

Because we don't talk about us. There is nothing to talk about.
He's not capable of being a husband. Period. He's broken. And not willing to do anything about it. He has said he's "curious" about my change in behavior, and has said I seem to be floating on air. But he follows that up with a sexual comment. Meaning it comes out as "must be getting laid".

He won't ever bring it up. He's not wired that way. Nothing is his fault. He is a total puppet. But I adore him. He just doesn't know how to get beyond where he is. And maybe he doesn't want to. He thinks it is easier to do nothing, and blame everyone else. If you do nothing, then nothing is your fault. 
But I do understand why he's so tired all the time. It take a lot of energy to fight it. Much easier to let it go. 

I guess I am waiting for the next step. I know that I FEEL I am where I am supposed to be, right now. I don't know why.
Somedays I think I am just curious. Who is he, really? I don't think I know. He is still pretending, scheming, manipulating, reacting. There is no true behavior. So I don't know whether or not to say he's not for me. I live with a faker.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

*Re: Re: Submitting to the Truth*



Conrad said:


> Tell her you are still attending - regardless of whether she comes or not.


I did.


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

A cold-hearted spouse tremendously accelerates recovery from a broken marriage. 

Not particularly related to the theme of this thread. 

Just sayin...

..
.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Deejov, 

It's good that you are doing things for you. I don't get why your son told you to only visit. Did the husband say something to him?


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

What a great thread, Conrad! I love the idea of submitting or surrendering to the truth. It is so hard for most of us to give up our false selves, our egotistical desires, our craving to control. One of my favorite Don Henley lyrics is: "You go around in circles that just keep getting smaller. You wake up one morning and half your life is gone." Waking up is one of the most difficult things that people can do.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Lifescript said:


> Deejov,
> 
> It's good that you are doing things for you. I don't get why your son told you to only visit. Did the husband say something to him?


Naw, I was crampin' his style. He's 22 and single. Didn't need my knowledge to manage the diabetes, learned what he needed to know. The secret gf I suspect was probably gettin' anxious LOL. Just wanted me to not sleep there anymore. Go sleep at my own house, and come visit often instead.


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## familyfirst09 (Dec 6, 2012)

lostLove77 said:


> deejov - I just finished The Four Agreements today. Some very interesting concepts in there, and very hard agreements to take. I've been way too self-centered in my Life. I've taken everything personally. That will be an important but hard thing to work on.
> 
> Everything in my marriage and separation seems so personal!
> 
> Thanks for the post Conrad.


I hope this isn't too niave of a question but what are the Four Agreements?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## K.C. (Dec 1, 2012)

When I read this a week or so ago, something connected.

Over that week, I then saw a few comments here and there in a different light. Both from others and myself.

How many times did I say I had accepted the situation but then an hour or a day later be pouring my energy into "what if this" and "how about that"

The hardest thing for me was realising that The Truth wasn't the K.C. made truth I was clinging to. I can be stubborn like that. But I was pouring my energy and effort into 'my truth' rather than accepting the truth for what it is.

Becoming still to me is also strange. I have lived my whole life regretting and dwelling on mistakes and worrying about the future and what may be. Always doing something (usually unimportant) to avoid doing nothing.

Finding peace by simply being in the moment sounds so simplistic. It is harder to do than it sounds but when you manage it, it is much more rewarding than it sounds too.


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## lostLove77 (Jan 25, 2013)

Family - it's a book. An interesting read that's well worth the time.

Nice job KC. I'm still trying to be more in the moment and haven't been too successful. I think i've had some brief glimpses but then get pulled back into the spin cycle of over thinking. But, at least I'm aware and trying.


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## K.C. (Dec 1, 2012)

Indeed. becoming aware of the thought circles and emotional spirals they can trigger is a massive step.

I do not claim to have this mastered. I honestly feel I have a long way to go before I can say that. Those first steps were the hardest for me. Just keeping it in mind from there as you go about your day makes it progressively easier then.

Sounds 'out there' but when waiting for something like a bus, I often just look at the clouds or some such. Be in the moment. Where that inactivity in a queue for example would instantly have had me "thinking" before.

Take the time to do nothing. Sometimes it is more productive than trying to do anything at all.


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

K.C. said:


> Take the time to do nothing. Sometimes it is more productive than trying to do anything at all.


This is true - but I'm just TOO good at doing nothing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Doing nothing does not mean the usual distractions like tv, Internet, music, noise, etc. it means sit in quiet so that you can actually hear that still small voice in your head.

This is a lot harder than it sounds.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

K.C. said:


> Indeed. becoming aware of the thought circles and emotional spirals they can trigger is a massive step.
> 
> I do not claim to have this mastered. I honestly feel I have a long way to go before I can say that. Those first steps were the hardest for me. Just keeping it in mind from there as you go about your day makes it progressively easier then.
> 
> ...


KC, 

Music has helped me to not think. I started listening to a cd of the ocean when I go to bed. And I picked up some different stuff to listen to otherwise. One is even called "Music to inspire positive thinking". 

And I still read affirmations every night. 

I have to say it's not that I"m not thinking all the time, because I still am. But I"m thinking about my life plan, ways to improve some of my past habits of being negative, like I just found a different focus for my energy. And I do have a LOT more energy. I don't know why.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

deejov said:


> KC,
> 
> Music has helped me to not think. I started listening to a cd of the ocean when I go to bed. And I picked up some different stuff to listen to otherwise. One is even called "Music to inspire positive thinking".
> 
> ...


And, your energy will continue to grow.

I know this, firsthand.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Whoot hoot!


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## familyfirst09 (Dec 6, 2012)

What affirmations do you read?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chopsy (Oct 10, 2012)

Just found this thread, it's great, thanks for starting it Conrad! 

I was just going to say before d day I was getting into not thinking, and now with my yoga class we are doing meditation so I am getting back into that. As my counsellor from a few years ago said, (a lesson I've just remembered), just because you think it, doesn't mean it's true. Thoughts are not feelings. Anyway yeah, the non thinking thing, it's awesome! I do it while driving,just get into the moment, notice everything. I believe I read somewhere it can positively impact happiness. Makes sense doesn't it.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

familyfirst09 said:


> What affirmations do you read?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Many are on the internet. Some were given to me specifically, for letting go of the past and resentments.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

So Conrad,
What is the truth to you?


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## familyfirst09 (Dec 6, 2012)

deejov said:


> Many are on the internet. Some were given to me specifically, for letting go of the past and resentments.


Would you have a good website you could refer me to?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

deejov said:


> So Conrad,
> What is the truth to you?


Human potential remains locked up tight until we overcome our fear.


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

familyfirst09 said:


> Would you have a good website you could refer me to?


I am particularly fond of Epictetus, the stoic philosopher... 

_"A guide, on finding a man who has lost his way, brings him back to the right path—he does not mock and jeer at him and then take himself off. You also must show the unlearned man the truth, and you will see that he will follow. But so long as you do not show it him, you should not mock, but rather feel your own incapacity."

"If you seek Truth, you will not seek to gain a victory by every possible means; and when you have found Truth, you need not fear being defeated."_


Pb.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Thinking of the truth.
I wrote a letter today, to my H. Have not given it to him, and might not. 
About the truth. What really is. The facts. He's an alcoholic. Not capable of being a husband, as things are. No longer want to call him that.
He's a great person, a kind spirit, a good room-mate, means well, but just not a husband. Today. Everyone is capable of growing, learning. 

I don't want to pretend anymore. I'm growing and want to solve my problems. I want to be happy. Not conditional on whatever is going on, but truly just happy with me. I'm getting there. 

I wrote it's a great burden to not have to wait for him to step up, to not expect anything from him, to detach and just think of him as a person. I love the person. 

Even if I don't give it to him, I feel much more free. Whatever happens in life, whatever turns it takes, I will be happy. Because I choose to be. 

I think I divorced him. LOL


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

IMO, if you're truly in this place you describe, there's no reason to give him the letter. 

He'll see it in your actions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## K.C. (Dec 1, 2012)

Surprise truth of the day for me. I am happy. I am not mentally biatching about anything at all. It is nice.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

K.C. said:


> Surprise truth of the day for me. I am happy. I am not mentally biatching about anything at all. It is nice.


That's one in a row!

Prove it was no accident tomorrow


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## K.C. (Dec 1, 2012)

Conrad said:


> That's one in a row!
> 
> Prove it was no accident tomorrow


LMAO

Thats more truth right there!


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

old timer said:


> IMO, if you're truly in this place you describe, there's no reason to give him the letter.
> 
> He'll see it in your actions.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Actually, he had a serious meltdown on Sunday. I could smell it coming, knew he was going on a drunk. I stayed out of his way.
Monday, however, he wanted to ask for forgiveness (meaning he didn't really remember what happened Sunday night, he assumed he said stuff he regretted).

I didn't give him the letter. But I did "talk" to him, same things I put in the letter.

Mainly just wanted to stop pretending, let's call this what it is. 
He had misplaced his wedding ring a long time ago. I found it recently. I put it on the same chain that mine have been hanging on, and so they hang off a hook in front of a stained glass window. Just symbolic. 

I wasn't mean or cold. Or angry. Just... the truth. What is. What isn't. 

His response... he went to an AA meeting. He wanted to talk later. It has nothing to do with ME, although he said me wanting to just be truthful kinda threw him. 

He's scared. Very much so. I've changed. 
Anyways, he said he also watched a video, and he heard the exact same things on the video that I have said to him, with regards to his drinking. Just things like your spouse telling you they dont' want to go down the drain with you, and they won't take responsibility for your mess, etc. etc. And the big one was me telling him awhile ago "if you want to kill yourself, then get it over with". (This was when he was driving home trashed).

The truth... hurts. Sometimes.
I won't say it felt nice to say the truth, call a spade a spade. It feels very lonely, actually. But it was a step forward. Just have to believe that.


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## K.C. (Dec 1, 2012)

This is why Conrad points out so many choose to not wake up.

Waking up sucks. I am hoping it gets better once you have the sleep out of your eyes though. Who knows, maybe he will wake up too In the meantime be true to yourself and what will be, will be i guess.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

I'm square and solid with me, as much as that is possible, today.
I'm not going back, ever. I assert my boundaries when I need to, as well. It just takes me a lot longer to "respond". I don't say much, until I run through the steps in my head first. Then I'm able to say whether or not I accept what is being put forth. 

It's like I'm in slo mo. LOL


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## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

Here is some truth for you:

Both me and my ex played a game for 13 years. She hid her true self from me and played a role. Why? Because she was always told to suppress who she was because it wasn't accepted as "good". She was scared. Me, because I was immature and a pleaser became resentful because I felt her holding back. 

It took tragedy in my marriage to deal with my resentment and passive aggressive activities towards her, my parents, and others in my life. Realistically, neither of us knew how to communicate effectively. I was a true "nice guy". She was and is a "wounded woman". Truth is, I can't fix her. 

I can fix me, though. I'm still a little wounded. It shows up every once in a while, however, that is becoming more rare. If I'm honest with myself, there are moments where I still regret not being who I could be and leading like I could by allowing my unforgiveness to dictate my happiness and actions.

Truth: Today, I have met someone. I'm not sure where it is going, but she is the only person who makes me feel like my ex did when we first met. It's weird to meet someone who loves you for who you are. (she hasn't said it, but I can see it in her eyes) I think that is the biggest healer of all. (The fact that I am trusting her which is overcoming my fear)


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## StillLife (Jan 19, 2013)

Could have written much of that myself, Dedicated. Surreal.

Just have to say, I love this thread. My story is out there, and it has been a bizarre roller coaster ride...but I feel like FINALLY, things are clicking left and right. At first it was easy to blame my wife for all the issues in our marriage, and then to latch on to her great betrayl, but then something hit and I realized all MY failures. They don't excuse her actions, but if I'm being honest, they explain some of how she arrived at a place where she thought it was the right move.

I have a great therapist who pins me down on stuff and makes me examine my demons, uncomfortable as that may be at times. I'm very grateful for it. Realize now I could have used IC a long time ago, though I didn't even know some of the things in me were there until I got married.

I used to think they were kind of touchy feely, feel good nonsense, but I've also been reading a lot of self help books lately, some recommended on here, and have learned a great deal from them. 

I don't...think my marriage is going to work, I think it's too late, and I just don't see the desire in my wife to grow herself and that's ok. I was initially angry, then pushy, clingy, desperate: all the mistakes people can make to push their spouse further away in all of these situations, and that's what it did. But now...I think I'm starting to let go and I think I'm finally making peace with the fact the only thing I can control here is myself, and my own happiness. If anything COULD save my marriage...it would be that, leading by example by submitting to the truth, as Conrad so eloquently put it. 

I realize now, I saw my wife as a broken person, someone who needed rescuing. But none of us are saviors, we're just...fallibly human ourselves. In the end, we can only be the best we can and hope to lead by example. 

Yay, feel good stuff! Haha.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Human potential remains locked up tight until we overcome our fear.


Sounds like something a WAW could say, too. Mrs. Bullwinkle's "self actualisation", for example. Mrs. StayStrong's "I have to be true to myself". 

Yet we deride them for that position.


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## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

> Sounds like something a WAW could say, too. Mrs. Bullwinkle's "self actualisation", for example. Mrs. StayStrong's "I have to be true to myself".
> 
> Yet we deride them for that position.


Not really. We deride them because they are running from the truth. They fear forgiveness, trusting in something that once hurt them....... it's their form of self protection.

They could say it, but it wouldn't make it truth.


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## StillLife (Jan 19, 2013)

Dedicated2Her said:


> Not really. We deride them because they are running from the truth. They fear forgiveness, trusting in something that once hurt them....... it's their form of self protection.
> 
> They could say it, but it wouldn't make it truth.


Have to agree. My WAW has told me in the past to let go...but I have found myself saying the same to her in a different context. She is still holding on to all the resentment, all the blame, while I have realized I will never learn in clinging to those things. I have been looking inward to find freedom, while she has been masking the pain she feels with attention from a series of other men. I know she thinks of it as attaining freedom..finding herself again, yet is obvious she is still running from facing her part in how things got bad. But that's ok, that's her journey and I am only in control of mine.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

StillLife said:


> Have to agree. My WAW has told me in the past to let go...but I have found myself saying the same to her in a different context. She is still holding on to all the resentment, all the blame, while I have realized I will never learn in clinging to those things. I have been looking inward to find freedom, while she has been masking the pain she feels with attention from a series of other men. I know she thinks of it as attaining freedom..finding herself again, yet is obvious she is still running from facing her part in how things got bad. But that's ok, that's her journey and I am only in control of mine.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What was your wife's childhood like?


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## lostLove77 (Jan 25, 2013)

StillLife said:


> My WAW has told me in the past to let go...but I have found myself saying the same to her in a different context. She is still holding on to all the resentment, all the blame, while I have realized I will never learn in clinging to those things. I have been looking inward to find freedom, while she has been masking the pain she feels with attention from a series of other men. I know she thinks of it as attaining freedom..finding herself again, yet is obvious she is still running from facing her part in how things got bad. But that's ok, that's her journey and I am only in control of mine.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Wow Still. Well said, think my wife is going through the same thing. She loves talking to these guys "strictly as friends". But she leans on them heavily even while it's obvious they want more. Then when they blow up she feels like she only hurts people or gets hurt herself. 

She's running but wants attention at the same time.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

StillLife said:


> Cult-like Christian church...molestation of her and her siblings by the pastor's son who, for some reason was living with them. Her father is in all likelyhood a closeted homosexual and even after that incident has always insisted on having young gay men live with them. Yet no one in the family discusses it. Her father was incredibly controlling and restrictive with all of them. My wife held her breath so long during a severe, routine spanking that she passed out. He would basically jump at the opportunity to stamp out any childhood naivity she had...she referenced that in a moment of honesty and sadness for how she has become so cold.
> 
> When she was 19, he talked her into marrying a young man in Honduras who's family
> they had known from their visits. She went down for wedding preparations and he raped her in her hotel room. Said she snapped, went to the rooftop and almost jumped off.
> ...


Owning things you have no control over is exhausting and debilitating - not to mention unrewarding.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

lostLove77 said:


> Wow Still. Well said, think my wife is going through the same thing. She loves talking to these guys "strictly as friends". But she leans on them heavily even while it's obvious they want more. Then when they blow up she feels like she only hurts people or gets hurt herself.
> 
> She's running but wants attention at the same time.


When she came of age, that was the one thing in her life that felt positive. So, it's a crutch.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

There's no way to jack this thread.

It takes all comers.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Conrad,
Being Still is causing me anxiety lately.
H has "sobered up" again. 10 days now.
My life has not changed, but he is now awake enough to notice things.

I spent most of Sunday afternoon shopping, with a male friend. We ran into H's brother. 

So on Monday... H pulls up a chair and decides he wants to talk about that. He doesn't think it's morally right for me to hang out with another guy, it's an insult to him and disrepectful.

8 days without booze and one of his nutz shows up. 

I thought about my response, said although I disagreed with his opinion (not morally wrong, because I wasn't doing anything wrong) I would consider his point of view for the future.

Anyways, every Monday we have the same discussion. He doesn't approve of me doing my own thing on Sundays. And every week I tell him that I'm not giving it up, it's MY time. 

The problem for him is that now he's not out getting drunk on Sundays, and he's around more often, and gee.... I don't say much to him, or plan much with him. He brought that up last night. 

Used the phrase... "the truth is, you left us a long time ago".
Yes. I did. 

It's hard to be still when you want to SCREAM the truth at someone. It's better when they discover it for themselves.

The truth isn't very pretty. But it's better than pretending.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

deejov said:


> Conrad,
> Being Still is causing me anxiety lately.
> H has "sobered up" again. 10 days now.
> My life has not changed, but he is now awake enough to notice things.
> ...


deej,

The only reliable source for discovery is oneself.

You are now off his back and giving him space to become the man he's supposed to be.

Yes, it's almost magic.

We would have never thought.

It is unnecessary for me to give play-by-play, as these same things are happening for me real time.

Submit to the truth.

LEAD and submit to the truth.

People see the truth for themselves, and follow it.

It truly is the light that shines on in the darkness and - try as it might - the darkness simply cannot put it out.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Thanks, Conrad.
Here is my truthful statement for the week.
I quite enjoy my new life.
I'm not sure how I feel about H's decision to act like a husband.
I want to just continue on with my life.
Whatever that brings.

He feels, well, awkward, to me. I don't trust it.
I do trust what I am doing.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Then, let's find out.

No harm in that, is there?


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## lostLove77 (Jan 25, 2013)

My truth for this week is that I know I'm still lost but continue to fight to do what's best for me. I am trying to focus on what I can control. I still love my wife and catch myself wanting to send messages to get some validation from her. I know they would be fruitless. Hurts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

lostLove77 said:


> My truth for this week is that I know I'm still lost but continue to fight to do what's best for me. I am trying to focus on what I can control. I still love my wife and catch myself wanting to send messages to get some validation from her. I know they would be fruitless. Hurts.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What are you doing for yourself?


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## lostLove77 (Jan 25, 2013)

Little things. Getting better at setting boundaries. Cooking new things. Going to the gym when I can as well as counseling. Tho I feel I'm stalling out with her. Not sure I'm being challenged, or much to say. 

Otherwise I'm stuck in a pretty lousy schedule. Living in the vacation home until I can sell it and have my daughters on the weekend. So I have no real free time outside of a couple evenings in a strange town.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

lostLove77 said:


> Little things. Getting better at setting boundaries. Cooking new things. Going to the gym when I can as well as counseling. Tho I feel I'm stalling out with her. Not sure I'm being challenged, or much to say.
> 
> Otherwise I'm stuck in a pretty lousy schedule. Living in the vacation home until I can sell it and have my daughters on the weekend. So I have no real free time outside of a couple evenings in a strange town.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You live in a decent-sized metro area?

I always find when I stall in therapy, I can call and "phone interview" potential therapist candidates.

Angie's List also has customer reviews on therapists.

But, I trust my instincts more than others. I find many times people like counselors who summarize often and try to lead the discussion with their own agenda.

Of course, I don't find that appealing.

I want a counselor who will help me root out dysfunctional thinking root and branch.


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## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

> Little things. Getting better at setting boundaries. Cooking new things. Going to the gym when I can as well as counseling. Tho I feel I'm stalling out with her. Not sure I'm being challenged, or much to say.
> 
> Otherwise I'm stuck in a pretty lousy schedule. Living in the vacation home until I can sell it and have my daughters on the weekend. So I have no real free time outside of a couple evenings in a strange town.


I have found that getting to the gym can not be a "when I can" activity. You have to do it five days a week. That, in addition to diet, really will help you feel better about yourself.

Some truth for me I learned this week: I am dating someone who listens to my personal goals and aspirations for myself. She reinforces/encourages/ and actually does things for me to support those goals. I do the same for her. There are becoming many examples of this daily. Wow, I have been on an island for so long. I'm a little taken back by being with someone who actually has the ability to show love.

It's kind of surreal. I'm very analytical of it because of what I've been through.....but, the intimacy is beyond great.:smthumbup:


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Dedicated2Her said:


> I have found that getting to the gym can not be a "when I can" activity. You have to do it five days a week. That, in addition to diet, really will help you feel better about yourself.


I agree that it cannot be a simple "when I can" activity, it needs to become more of a habit and less of a hobby. Physical activity should be a way of life. Something you build your schedule around and then if you must, skip a day because something has come back up. Then get back to it.

For myself, I found I took it far too seriously and all that did was set me up for failure. I cannot eat perfect every time and truthfully as long as I stay active more days than not and eat better than I was, I will get good results. Which I have been.

Even last night, I could have done yoga but after doing all the running around to buy a car and with the kids in tow I just wanted to relax. A large part of me was giving myself hell for chilling after 2 weeks and enjoying a single beer with a handful of chips. Then I told myself to shut up and give myself a small break, just don't go beyond that.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Dedicated2Her said:


> I have found that getting to the gym can not be a "when I can" activity. You have to do it five days a week. That, in addition to diet, really will help you feel better about yourself.
> 
> Some truth for me I learned this week: I am dating someone who listens to my personal goals and aspirations for myself. She reinforces/encourages/ and actually does things for me to support those goals. I do the same for her. There are becoming many examples of this daily. Wow, I have been on an island for so long. I'm a little taken back by being with someone who actually has the ability to show love.
> 
> It's kind of surreal. I'm very analytical of it because of what I've been through.....but, the intimacy is beyond great.:smthumbup:


At times you almost feel sociopathic.


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

Dedicated2Her said:


> I have found that getting to the gym can not be a "when I can" activity. You have to do it five days a week. That, in addition to diet, really will help you feel better about yourself.


Yup
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

Dedicated2Her said:


> It's kind of surreal. I'm very analytical of it because of what I've been through.....but, the intimacy is beyond great.:smthumbup:


Totally surreal. 

I'm not, yet, any good at accepting a mutually giving relationship, because its so different than anything I've ever experienced. I will catch myself questioning Mr. Katy's motives, when he does something nice for me, or pauses a tv show to just talk to me.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

HappyKaty said:


> Totally surreal.
> 
> I'm not, yet, any good at accepting a mutually giving relationship, because its so different than anything I've ever experienced. I will catch myself questioning Mr. Katy's motives, when he does something nice for me, or pauses a tv show to just talk to me.


Re-wiring your internal compass is very difficult.

It's like living in a different world.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

This month's truth is more about surviving for me. I'm burnt out, tired, and not sure how much longer I can keep burning the candle at both ends before my health tanks. And it will. 

Today I had to force myself to read something positive, and find a reason to smile. I did. There is always a reason to enjoy today.

I'm most tired of the lies and pretending. Hold my tongue at work, be political, come home to more pretending and lies. 

I'm tired of feeling like my life is on hold. I get a few hours on Sunday to do what I want to do. The rest of the time I'm doing for others and I should be grateful for what I have. But my gut tells me it isn't enough. 

Things are not going to change, I'm being played. H is never going to announce he's stable enough to sell the house and sign papers. 
I feel angry that I"m being denied the right to move on. But it's all on me, in the end. My fault I am here. 

Time to stop the limbo and start making real plans, that includes my son too. What's the "rest of his life" look like? I feel like I am stuck in mother bear mode.... on call in case he needs me, it takes such a long time for this T1 to be just part of life. I need to work on getting over the guilt and worry. 

Going to start over, make a new plan, and me-proof it so I don't get sucked in again. Not going to give up, just yet. I'll get to where I need to be. Just need to find the balance that seems right. Haven't found it yet.


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

Why are you waiting on him to sign?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

old timer said:


> Why are you waiting on him to sign?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She no longer is

How are you D. Duck?


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