# When the OW will not go away



## Here we go again (Dec 1, 2012)

last weekend my H went hunting and the next morning he woke up sick, fever, chills, etc. anyway i had to go pick up our children from my mothers house and while i was waiting for them to get their things together i was looking on my FB and noticed he has posted that he was sick and wanted it to go away, when i started to write a comment there was a comment from a woman he works with asking if he had the flu, while typing my comment i got a phone call and was kicked off the site, so when i returned to his post not even 5 min later her comment was gone, that made me suspicous. so i looked up her profile and seen that she works with him, and it had her phone number listed in her contact info. i wrote it down and decided i needed to look into it more. i asked him when i got home who she was he told me it was just a woman at his work who was friends with his boss. the next day when i got to work i looked up our phone bill online, and there it was 68 phone calls between them this month alone. any where from 30 minutes to an hour and always on his commute to and from work. (he has an hour drive) so when i got home the next morning i checked it again, they had three more phone calls that morning before work, after he called me. i called him and asked if he would call and make sure i was up early because i had some things to do, of course he asked what it was and i wouldnt tell him. he kept on and on asking and i repeated everytime i just have some things to do you will find out later. i went to sleep (i work third shift) and a few hours later i woke up to him coming in our room, he had left work early, said he felt worse and was running a fever, so i went back to sleep and he woke me up at the time i requested. again he asked what i was going to do and i told him i couldnt do it now cause he was home. boy was he paranoid. i got out my computer and told him my phone was acting up and i was going to log on to the website to see if they had anything posted about it before i called into IT, (which was the truth but had other agendas in mind also) when i got logged on, i pulled up the troubleshooting page and found nothing which i told him, then i pulled up our usage page, i asked him who he was talking to so much in this certain town and read off the phone number, of course he told me it was his boss, lie #1, so i played it off and said they needed to pay our phone bill if he was going to use it for work all the time. from that moment on it was I love you baby and your the greatest wife, blah blah blah. later in the afternoon he gave me a big hug and said "dont ever leave me, im sorry for being an a$$hole" so i told him not to give me a reason to leave him and i wouldnt and asked when he had been an a$$, he said i had been acting wierd the last couple of days and thought it was because of him. going against my better judgement i told him i knew it wasnt his boss he was talking to and wanted to know why he lied to me and asked what was going on... gues what they are just friends, nothing is going on, he can talk to her about things he cant talk to me about, and he lied because he knew i knew who it was already. i didnt see the big S on my head but i guess he saw it cause he thought i was stupid. i did not blow up, i did not loose my cool, because we have been down this road before but last time i just forgave him, took his word it wouldnt happen again and now here we are again a year later. i let him say what he wanted, i listened, and then i didnt bring it back up. when something is important i have to write him a letter or send him an email so he will read it, see it, and understand it vs. me talking and him not hearing what i am saying. that night at work, on my lunch break, i wrote out his email, i told him that i was not a perfect wife but i deserved better, i told him to look at it from my view point and ask himself if it was me talking to another man that much would he see it as just a friendship, i said i was over it, and i wanted him to think about our marriage until this weekend and ask himself why he had to go to another woman for emotional support instead of coming to me, i then copied an article about EA's that i found on line and told him this weekend i wanted everything laid out on the table, the raw naked truth about everything and i would tell him then if i wanted to stay and work things out or if i was leaving. then i proceeded to send an email to her asking what was so important that my husband was exchaning 68 phone calls with her. (im sorry this is so long) that morning's phone call was so different, he knew i meant business because the D word has never been spoken in our marriage. he said he was sorry, he didnt know why he couldnt talk to me about things and that he did cross the line, i stopped him and said we would discuss everything this weekend. that morning she replied to my email saying they were just friends, they just vented to each other, her husbad cheated on her and she would never do that to anyone, and if i wanted to talk to her i could call her. fast forward to yesterday, my H came home and said we needed to talk, we went into our room to get away from the kids, he sat me down and said he couldnt wait until this weekend we needed to talk then, i have never seen my husband cry before yesterday, he told me he was so sorry, he did not see what he was doing as cheating until yesterday when he spoke to his dad (a rev.) he said he sent her an email saying their friendship was causing problems in his marriage and that he could not talk to her anymore, he told her the only contact they needed to have was to be work related but all emails needed to have his boss included on them, if it required a meeting someone else needed to be present, and nothing more. he showed me the email (which he had his boss included on) and her response which was im sorry to loose a friend but i understand. he said he wanted us to go to counseling because the kids and i were his world and he didnt want to loose us, he would do anything to keep our family together. i told him he didnt need to have any contact with her period outside of business related issues (which there is no way to avoid) and he agreed. He got on his fb account, deleted and blocked her, deleted her number from his phone, and said whatever it took he would do. do i believe him, yes, do i trust him, not on his life, and i havent decided if i am going to stay or not. but here is the kicker, tonight i get an email from the OW which read " i told you we were just friends nothing more. hacking his fb, deleting and blocking me served zero purpose other than to piss him off at you. all it did was show him that you dont trust what he sais or what he does. we work together. we are going to have contact, if for no other reason that for work related issues. fb is inconsequential. im sure you didnt want it, but there's my two cents." so that makes it obvious to me that this was in fact an EA because if after he told her he could not have anymore contact with her and he deleted her on his fb, a. why would that piss her off as much as it did and B. why would she think i did it. i did reply back to her, stating it was not me that deleted her, and so so much more, so after all of this, here is my question, i know this will not be the last of her, apparently their "friendship"/EA ment more to her than it did him or she wouldnt have a problem with this. i have thought about it and i am giving our marriage three months, counseling is a must, honesty is a must, faithfulness is always a must, and one just one mistake will end it all, so how do we get her to go away and leave us alone. i am only willing to try because of our kids, if we can get through this and have a stronger marriage hey good for us, if it doesnt work out, at least we can tell them we tried. but she has no dog in this race and needs to step aside. any thoughts or advice is appreciated.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

If she persists, a TRO is always a possibility.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Have him send a no contact letter in his hand therein state if she contacts him , you or any of your family again he will take legal action .
If she does , charge her with harassment . 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Seems obvious to me that if it wasn't a PA yet, that she fully intended it to go that way. In other words this chick has her sights set on your husband.

Be watchful of his actions in the coming days/weeks and listen to your gut. If something seems off, follow up on it. Watch for his schedule changing too.


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## Helplease (Nov 8, 2012)

Here we go again said:


> last weekend my H went hunting and the next morning he woke up sick, fever, chills, etc. anyway i had to go pick up our children from my mothers house and while i was waiting for them to get their things together i was looking on my FB and noticed he has posted that he was sick and wanted it to go away, when i started to write a comment there was a comment from a woman he works with asking if he had the flu, while typing my comment i got a phone call and was kicked off the site, so when i returned to his post not even 5 min later her comment was gone, that made me suspicous. so i looked up her profile and seen that she works with him, and it had her phone number listed in her contact info. i wrote it down and decided i needed to look into it more. i asked him when i got home who she was he told me it was just a woman at his work who was friends with his boss. the next day when i got to work i looked up our phone bill online, and there it was 68 phone calls between them this month alone. any where from 30 minutes to an hour and always on his commute to and from work. (he has an hour drive) so when i got home the next morning i checked it again, they had three more phone calls that morning before work, after he called me. i called him and asked if he would call and make sure i was up early because i had some things to do, of course he asked what it was and i wouldnt tell him. he kept on and on asking and i repeated everytime i just have some things to do you will find out later. i went to sleep (i work third shift) and a few hours later i woke up to him coming in our room, he had left work early, said he felt worse and was running a fever, so i went back to sleep and he woke me up at the time i requested. again he asked what i was going to do and i told him i couldnt do it now cause he was home. boy was he paranoid. i got out my computer and told him my phone was acting up and i was going to log on to the website to see if they had anything posted about it before i called into IT, (which was the truth but had other agendas in mind also) when i got logged on, i pulled up the troubleshooting page and found nothing which i told him, then i pulled up our usage page, i asked him who he was talking to so much in this certain town and read off the phone number, of course he told me it was his boss, lie #1, so i played it off and said they needed to pay our phone bill if he was going to use it for work all the time. from that moment on it was I love you baby and your the greatest wife, blah blah blah. later in the afternoon he gave me a big hug and said "dont ever leave me, im sorry for being an a$$hole" so i told him not to give me a reason to leave him and i wouldnt and asked when he had been an a$$, he said i had been acting wierd the last couple of days and thought it was because of him. going against my better judgement i told him i knew it wasnt his boss he was talking to and wanted to know why he lied to me and asked what was going on... gues what they are just friends, nothing is going on, he can talk to her about things he cant talk to me about, and he lied because he knew i knew who it was already. i didnt see the big S on my head but i guess he saw it cause he thought i was stupid. i did not blow up, i did not loose my cool, because we have been down this road before but last time i just forgave him, took his word it wouldnt happen again and now here we are again a year later. i let him say what he wanted, i listened, and then i didnt bring it back up. when something is important i have to write him a letter or send him an email so he will read it, see it, and understand it vs. me talking and him not hearing what i am saying. that night at work, on my lunch break, i wrote out his email, i told him that i was not a perfect wife but i deserved better, i told him to look at it from my view point and ask himself if it was me talking to another man that much would he see it as just a friendship, i said i was over it, and i wanted him to think about our marriage until this weekend and ask himself why he had to go to another woman for emotional support instead of coming to me, i then copied an article about EA's that i found on line and told him this weekend i wanted everything laid out on the table, the raw naked truth about everything and i would tell him then if i wanted to stay and work things out or if i was leaving. then i proceeded to send an email to her asking what was so important that my husband was exchaning 68 phone calls with her. (im sorry this is so long) that morning's phone call was so different, he knew i meant business because the D word has never been spoken in our marriage. he said he was sorry, he didnt know why he couldnt talk to me about things and that he did cross the line, i stopped him and said we would discuss everything this weekend. that morning she replied to my email saying they were just friends, they just vented to each other, her husbad cheated on her and she would never do that to anyone, and if i wanted to talk to her i could call her. fast forward to yesterday, my H came home and said we needed to talk, we went into our room to get away from the kids, he sat me down and said he couldnt wait until this weekend we needed to talk then, i have never seen my husband cry before yesterday, he told me he was so sorry, he did not see what he was doing as cheating until yesterday when he spoke to his dad (a rev.) he said he sent her an email saying their friendship was causing problems in his marriage and that he could not talk to her anymore, he told her the only contact they needed to have was to be work related but all emails needed to have his boss included on them, if it required a meeting someone else needed to be present, and nothing more. he showed me the email (which he had his boss included on) and her response which was im sorry to loose a friend but i understand. he said he wanted us to go to counseling because the kids and i were his world and he didnt want to loose us, he would do anything to keep our family together. i told him he didnt need to have any contact with her period outside of business related issues (which there is no way to avoid) and he agreed. He got on his fb account, deleted and blocked her, deleted her number from his phone, and said whatever it took he would do. do i believe him, yes, do i trust him, not on his life, and i havent decided if i am going to stay or not. but here is the kicker, tonight i get an email from the OW which read " i told you we were just friends nothing more. hacking his fb, deleting and blocking me served zero purpose other than to piss him off at you. all it did was show him that you dont trust what he sais or what he does. we work together. we are going to have contact, if for no other reason that for work related issues. fb is inconsequential. im sure you didnt want it, but there's my two cents." so that makes it obvious to me that this was in fact an EA because if after he told her he could not have anymore contact with her and he deleted her on his fb, a. why would that piss her off as much as it did and B. why would she think i did it. i did reply back to her, stating it was not me that deleted her, and so so much more, so after all of this, here is my question, i know this will not be the last of her, apparently their "friendship"/EA ment more to her than it did him or she wouldnt have a problem with this. i have thought about it and i am giving our marriage three months, counseling is a must, honesty is a must, faithfulness is always a must, and one just one mistake will end it all, so how do we get her to go away and leave us alone. i am only willing to try because of our kids, if we can get through this and have a stronger marriage hey good for us, if it doesnt work out, at least we can tell them we tried. but she has no dog in this race and needs to step aside. any thoughts or advice is appreciated.


You could forward her email to his boss with a request that he/she have a talk with her. She is sticking her nose in your marriage and saying negative things to your husband about you. Your marriage is none of her business. A lot of jobs will fire workers for things like this.


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## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

EA last time too? How do you know? As of right now, I don't know if you can say it was an EA or PA. As usual, this is likely to get worse before it gets better. Hold on to your hat.


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## Calibre12 (Nov 27, 2012)

Helplease said:


> You could forward her email to his boss with a request that he/she have a talk with her. She is sticking her nose in your marriage and saying negative things to your husband about you. Your marriage is none of her business. A lot of jobs will fire workers for things like this.


Strongly agree. This woman is psychotic, one who can't take a hint or let go...Does not know her "place", bold, daring. I can't imagine the life of hell your husband would eventually have with her if he indeed continues down that road with her. You should take the actions mentioned above or your husband needs to find another job asap. The restraining order is also a good idea. She needs to know she is an uninvited stranger in your marriage and she is "kicked out".


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## jenny1981 (Jun 14, 2012)

RightfulRiskTaker said:


> Strongly agree. This woman is psychotic, one who can't take a hint or let go...Does not know her "place", bold, daring. I can't imagine the life of hell your husband would eventually have with her if he indeed continues down that road with her. You should take the actions mentioned above or your husband needs to find another job asap. The restraining order is also a good idea. She needs to know she is an uninvited stranger in your marriage and she is "kicked out".


I believe the first thing you need to do is be 100 percent sure your husband has gone no contact. You said you don't trust him nor should you right now. You said they talked while he was traveling to or from work. Hide a voice activated recorder in the car, monitor it for a week or so. Once you are certain he isn't in contact with her other then the agreed apon reasons like work then if she continues to stir up trouble then you may need to speak with their employer. Keep in mind it could cost them both their jobs and in today's market it may be difficult to find other work. You may need to be patient in order to get the info you need to move forward.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Calibre12 (Nov 27, 2012)

jenny1981 said:


> I believe the first thing you need to do is be 100 percent sure your husband has gone no contact. You said you don't trust him nor should you right now. You said they talked while he was traveling to or from work. Hide a voice activated recorder in the car, monitor it for a week or so. Once you are certain he isn't in contact with her other then the agreed apon reasons like work then if she continues to stir up trouble then you may need to speak with their employer. Keep in mind it could cost them both their jobs and in today's market it may be difficult to find other work. You may need to be patient in order to get the info you need to move forward.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The point is the OW has crossed her boundary showing irresponsibility. She is not hiding who she is or what she wants and is channelling anger to the wife. She needs to be put in her place. Since the economy is so tough, they should have thought about that before they mixed work with play. He needs to get therapy, put her in her place INFRONT of his wife and find another job.


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

Here we go again said:


> I am only willing to try because of our kids, if we can get through this and have a stronger marriage hey good for us, if it doesn't work out, at least we can tell them we tried.


*Is this truly the only reason you're willing to try to save your marriage?*

Regarding the OW, I would advise that you make no more personal contact with her, don't respond to anything she sends you.

You don't need to try to control some other woman's actions right now, you need to focus your energy on your husband; he's the only one who's accountable to you.

*Ignore that woman.*

T


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

When being nice, subtle, and civilized fails, our instincts of going off on the other person succeed. (or at least I find they do)


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Your instincts about all of this sound really good. You gathered information, confronted your H very directly, and have a plan. I would agree to just ignore any further contact from the OW. Monitor your H, but don't engage personally with her.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

If you use a VAR in his car, make sure you use heavy duty Velco (with adhesive backing) to secure the VAR to a hidden surface in the car.

You might also consider installing a keystroke tracker on the computer he uses.

I would not get his boss involved yet because him losing his job could seriously damage you and your children.

Find out who her husband is and his contact info. If she contacts you again, send all her emails to you and her phone call history to her husband.. make sure that she does not intercept them... find a way to do this... like send it to his work.

Hopefully her husband will help put a stop to her harrassing you. And perhaps she will be so busy trying to fix things with her husband that she will leave you two alone.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Yup, expose to her husband.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

SadandAngry said:


> Yup, expose to her husband.


I third this motion.


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## Here we go again (Dec 1, 2012)

thanks for all the responses, I do believe my H thinks he see's a big "S" on my forehead and thinks im stupid (oh he will so find out differently soon) his text msgs have gone up dramatically over the past week, i got the letter from our phone company today to fill out to get the text report for his phone, i could be wrong but i dont think so. and there has been no further contact from her so not sure if he said something to her or what so we will see


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

When you ask does your H seem remorseful, I was going to say yes. And in fact I still would. He does seem remorseful. He has voluntarily gone to his father for advice...this is big imo. And he has voluntarily done much to amend for his stupidity. 

But...people who have affairs are cowards. And I assume he is one too. As soon as I read what she said she wrote in her email, that is odd. Why would she make an assumption like that? Because it is not an assumption? Is that what your husband told her so he didn't have to make the awkward and difficult and 'mean' conversation that says 'I blocked you because I want nothing to do with you on that level'? This makes perfect sense, this slots all in to place. If he said that you did it, it makes it much easier. And that would explain her anger at you, no matter how unjustified it is. People in affairs don't put the H/W in a good light, they complain how unhappy they are and how it is the fault of the H/W. If he has been talking as much as you say, on a personal level, I would guess there was much talk of the state of his marriage also. And so telling her 'why' she is blocked would feed this picture.

I don't want to put a spanner in the works, or make you think something awful about your husband when he seems to be really making good positive effort and doing the right things, but it really is the only reason I could think that someone would say/do that, that she was fed that thought/idea. However, some people are just plain selfish and mean, and making this assumption, if she made the assumption, made it up in her own head, may well have been a reason for her to express her anger at you, because you are the reason she lost her friend. She made it up so it can fit her view of you and feed and justify her anger at you.

Did you tell your husband about the email? What was his reaction?


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## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

Remains said:


> When you ask does your H seem remorseful, I was going to say yes. And in fact I still would. He does seem remorseful. He has voluntarily gone to his father for advice...this is big imo. And he has voluntarily done much to amend for his stupidity.
> 
> But...people who have affairs are cowards. And I assume he is one too. As soon as I read what she said she wrote in her email, that is odd. Why would she make an assumption like that? Because it is not an assumption? Is that what your husband told her so he didn't have to make the awkward and difficult and 'mean' conversation that says 'I blocked you because I want nothing to do with you on that level'? This makes perfect sense, this slots all in to place. If he said that you did it, it makes it much easier. And that would explain her anger at you, no matter how unjustified it is. People in affairs don't put the H/W in a good light, they complain how unhappy they are and how it is the fault of the H/W. If he has been talking as much as you say, on a personal level, I would guess there was much talk of the state of his marriage also. And so telling her 'why' she is blocked would feed this picture.
> 
> ...


I had the exact same thought...that he told her you did it to exonerate himself. There's more to this story....

But his self-exposure to his father IS a good thing. At first I thought it might have been their game plan to bring it underground but OWs reaction doesn't fit that scenario. Her reaction would explain him trying to keep himself in a "better" light with everyone. 

VAR in the car!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dormant (Apr 3, 2012)

Just my 2 cents: I think they have gone under ground. You ARE being played as a fool. Time to present him divorce papers. You can always back out of it, if you learn things are truly fixed.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Helplease said:


> You could forward her email to his boss with a request that he/she have a talk with her. She is sticking her nose in your marriage and saying negative things to your husband about you. Your marriage is none of her business. A lot of jobs will fire workers for things like this.



I would not have responded to her. As they say in the Miranda, everything you say can and will be used against in the court of law.......

Yes, have a conversation with this woman's boss and forward that e-mail to that boss. This is making me wonder if this is set up for Fatal Attraction.


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

It's obvious that your husband told the OW that you hacked into his facebook account. Why else would she think that?

This affair may have gone underground because why would this woman feel okay contacting you for any reason. 

She is not psychotic. She would not be able to hold a job long term if she were. She somehow got the idea she is allowed to be disrespectful towards you, and it likely came from your spouse. 

Lying to her doesn't definitively mean he is still straying, but it is disrespectful to you and says that he feels obligated to please her.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Well, so he's not calling, he's texting now. Not really underground, but kind of stupid.

Again, you sound very solid. Why not just draw up the divorce papers?


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## Soifon (Oct 5, 2012)

I agree. My first thought exactly was that he told her you had him delete and block her. It was believable to her because he has already painted you as the problem in his relationship. 

He sounds like a really good actor and is putting on quite the show for you. Which is really sad if it's true because it means that he is 1000% aware of what he is doing, has no remorse and in the event you stay with him he will do it over and over again.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> Well, so he's not calling, he's texting now. Not really underground, but kind of stupid.
> 
> Again, you sound very solid. Why not just draw up the divorce papers?


While divorce may be premature, some show of force may be called for just to wake him up.


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## Here we go again (Dec 1, 2012)

I packed up my kids today and went to my sisters, I dropped them off with her and went back to the house so it would be just us when he got home. (I bought a couple of VAR's today and put them in a few ideal places also) i asked him if he has spoken with her of course he said no, i asked about texting her and also a no, and then i pretty much told him i was leaving so i could sort things out and decide if i wanted to stay or not, i dont think i have ever been called baby so many times in my life. there is one thing that confused the heck out of me and not quite sure how to interpert it, when i was about to leave he asked me not in a harsh way but more in a "im hurt" sort of way "why are you doing this, i said i would do counseling and anything else you wanted me to do what more do i have to do to prove to you that its over and not happening again" here is the confusing part, we said counseling last time and he didnt go so that part of the statement is a been there done that kind of moment. but the what do i have to do to prove to you part can be two different meanings, and as you all have noticed he is a great actor, it could be tell me what you want and ill do it and mean it, or tell me what i can do to have my cake and eat it to. on a semi positive note (the positive part will be at the end so please dont think i am saying the first of this is positive cause its absolutely not) the first woman we had issues with years ago, he was also friends with her now ex who was in a bad accident the day before yesterday and they do not think he is going to make it through the weekend, even though he hasnt spoken to him in quite a while my H wanted to go to the hospital to see him and asked if i would go with him, (i hate hospitals and unless something is wrong with one of my kids i flat out refuse to step inside one) and after reminding him of that he said that he really wanted to go see him but would only go if i went because there would be a chance that she is there with their kids and he didnt want any doubt in my mind about anything that was said or done. i feel like that is at least a small step on his part and agreed to go with him today so we'll see how it goes.


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## TCx (Dec 15, 2011)

alte Dame said:


> Well, so he's not calling, he's texting now. Not really underground, but kind of stupid.
> 
> Again, you sound very solid. Why not just draw up the divorce papers?


Wow... seriously? How can you be so cavalier with someone else's marriage? I do not interpret this message as a serious question but as a dig that reads "just divorce him".

Instead, why not find out what the OPs boundaries and viewpoints are on marriage and divorce first? Why apply your value set and suggest divorce before you have a handle on that?

In the spirit of offering alternatives that are not quite so ridiculously reactionary, how about she gets a copy of the texts that have been sent on the phone: How to Obtain Printed Copies of Text Messages Sent to & From a Cell Phone | eHow.com

I send at least 30+ texts a day, many for work; sometimes with nothing more than "K" or "stupid autocorrect" or "call me".

Emotional attachment is not like smoking. You quit smoking because you know that it's killing you. You don't worry about the cigarettes, they can't feel hurt. People are different. When you have an emotional connection, it's hard to just cut them off cold turkey because you want to let them down easy. Even if you look at that person like a cancer stick that is murdering your marriage, it's not easy to look someone in the eye and say, "stay away from me". You might call that cowardice; I call that empathy. And it's especially hard for someone who you work with and must have regular contact with.

And if they are in the infancy stages of love then cutting that tie cold turkey creates a gaping void in both of their lives that they will crave. Remember, they will have connected for a reason.

To the OP:

It's not fantasy land. You husband is talking to someone else for a reason. What is that reason? Is it really because the two of you can't talk about certain subjects? Is it because the sex has dropped off? Is it because he needs an ego stroke? Is it because the two of you never do anything together other than watch TV or take care of the kids? Is your marriage perfect?

He talks to her because you are not meeting his emotional needs. Why is that? And what is it about him that is making you not want to meet his emotional needs? He says he doesn't know why, so would it help you to think about it for him? Ask him questions about why and do it gently over the course of several weeks (confronting him will make him recoil)? Maybe try a game where the two of you bring up a subject that he doesn't want to talk to about it and talk about it and, whatever you do, do not get mad or cry or guilt him.

This shock-and-awe tactic that you're using is only going getting his attention through fear. Managing people through fear is unhealthy and destructive (which is how I judge most of the people who offer advice like the above) and eventually, the person becomes desensitized to the fear. Okay, you have his attention and he's shown an interest in ending the EA... proactively.

IMHO, you need to support him in that rather than just accuse him of doing wrong because that will only make him recoil from you. Yes, look for lies and other things and call him on it and ask yourself why he's exhibiting that behavior. Then ask him. If it is because he can't talk to you then how do you get him into the habit of talking about things with you rather than someone else. "Why can't you talk to me about some things" is confrontational; it is a demand for justification; it's a slap. Perhaps, "You know, it's really bugging me that you feel that you can't talk to me about things. It really hurts me to think that you don't feel comfortable talking with me." This connects with his empathy with you. 

Then maybe, "I'd like to try something; can you please share with me one of the things that you talked with her about that you couldn't with me? And then tell me how you think I would respond to it and then how you would prefer I respond to it? We can do it via email if you like. I know that this is uncomfortable but would you try? It's really important to me." Email seems to be less threatening for your relationship so a few days to think on it might help? Chances are the first foray will be something meaningless or something that he's made up (like my W used to do)... again, fear. I also wouldn't do this just once; I'd make a regular thing of it.

If communication really is the issue then creating a safe environment (and starting small) will help.

IMHO, the way forward is "kind but firm"; set boundaries and communicate consequences (but don't set consequences that you're not prepared to carry through with) but be there for him. If you only think of yourself as a victim in this, your marriage is doomed.

Last thing: Get MC and I *highly* recommend that you ask specific, pointed questions on TAM. Things like, "I suspect my H is having an EA; what can I do to detect it?" Us it as a resource rather than a support group because there is just too much pain and negativity here (though there is some useful content).

And to my own personal agenda, I have a favor to ask. When people say nothing more than "just divorce him", respond with "I'm sorry but your post doesn't offer any useful content. Please understand, I'm trying to save my marriage and this kind of post doesn't help."

Unless, of course, your value-set says that he's already crossed the line and D is what you want; then go for it. The people who post things like the above do not think about the potential consequences of their throw away statements. But they will be more than happy to support you through your D and tell you how evil, cowardly, pathetic, [insert venomous statement] your H is.


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## TCx (Dec 15, 2011)

PS - just to stress this point... *if* communicating is the issue and he can't confide in you then his first attempts are probably all going to be bull-dip until he's comfortable with the concept (and you've allayed his fears). It's a long, slow process...


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

TCx said:


> Wow... seriously? How can you be so cavalier with someone else's marriage? I do not interpret this message as a serious question but as a dig that reads "just divorce him".
> 
> Instead, why not find out what the OPs boundaries and viewpoints are on marriage and divorce first? Why apply your value set and suggest divorce before you have a handle on that?
> 
> ...


Yes, seriously. Her husband has been lying very seriously to her & indicating serious consequences is important.


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## nevergoback (Dec 5, 2012)

If she was really Only his friend, she would bow out gracefully. I could even envision a much different email back to you if any at all... You know something from her that sounded like. ..... I didn't realize... Or I'm sorry... Or even.... Your husband is a great guy and I wouldn't want to be a part of something that could ruin his marriage.

This email from her is toxic with either;infidelity from the past, infidelity in the present or a wish for his infidelity in the future (aka. Sexual tension)

You sound like you have been very reasonable with him, and he sounds like he may have an addiction to the spark. 

Only you know what is the right answer for you.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

The first thing I thought was that he told her you hacked his Facebook so I agree with the others. 

You might tell your husband that the OW told you , he told her you hacked his facebook. The reaction you get might tell you plenty. Especially, how she bragged about seeing him and talking to him at work should be an eye opener.


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## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

TCx said:


> To the OP:
> 
> It's not fantasy land. You husband is talking to someone else for a reason. What is that reason? Is it really because the two of you can't talk about certain subjects? Is it because the sex has dropped off? Is it because he needs an ego stroke? Is it because the two of you never do anything together other than watch TV or take care of the kids? Is your marriage perfect?
> 
> He talks to her because you are not meeting his emotional needs. Why is that? And what is it about him that is making you not want to meet his emotional needs? He says he doesn't know why, so would it help you to think about it for him? Ask him questions about why and do it gently over the course of several weeks (confronting him will make him recoil)? Maybe try a game where the two of you bring up a subject that he doesn't want to talk to about it and talk about it and, whatever you do, do not get mad or cry or guilt him.


Sir, have you read Shirley Glass' book "Not Just Friends"? It would appear you haven't. But I could be wrong. This bit of information you've just written has got to be one of the most obtuse, passive, blameshifting passages I've read in a long time. Apologies if that offends you. It "appears" to be very, very one-sided. The WS doesn't get his needs met, therefore the BS is to blame and there you have it. Yes, an oversimplification, but certainly it tells me a lot about you and how you may (or may not) justify your own affair, if you've had one. 

There are many marriages where the BS is appealing for help. Is wanting sex. Is dealing with the tough stuff of life (a sick child, illness in himself/herself, a death in the family) and the WS is a no-show. They've checked out. There are instances where the WS is just simply put "selfish" (in the words of my husband) and gave into "lust". Yes, pure adulterated lust -- because his wife was ill (and heavier, and now is not) and he wasn't having to contribute at home because she was doing it all and someone else who was younger, "enhanced" and available (though married) gave ego strokes and pursued. Not that he wasn't getting ego strokes at home. He was, and admits it --- but he "wanted" to hear it from the AP because that's where he was focusing his attention (and yes, his lust). He was getting his needs met at home -- or at least there was a desire to work on the marriage at home and meet those needs. A desire for more sex, constant giving of ego strokes, and yes, HE wanted to focus on the secrecy and titillation that came from an illicit attraction. He had no boundaries in place. 

Please do not put this on her! --- There ARE cases where the ego strokes aren't happening. Where sex isn't offered. And yes, that contributes to the affair. BUT it doesn't happen 100% of the time. Affairs happen when people violate their commitments. At the core of that is a self centered decision to take matters in one's own hands to meet the needs that one WANTS to have met the way one WANTS them met. The path of least resistance. The easy way out. 

Life gets hard. Children distract. People get sick. If one expects the world to revolve around oneself, he/she shouldn't get married. Either that or hire a concubine.

Geesh. Apologies for my rant, but your post pissed me off!!


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## TCx (Dec 15, 2011)

thesunwillcomeout said:


> This bit of information you've just written has got to be one of the most obtuse, passive, blameshifting passages I've read in a long time.


Well at the risk of using external validation as evidence for my argument, several of the old timer BS'rs have stated exactly the same thing so it can't be completely without merit.

And I am not in any way blaming the BS. I'm stating that his needs are not being met and offering potential examples of what they could be.

It could be a purely internal thing to the WS but, from what I've seen, that's not usually the case.



> Apologies if that offends you.


It doesn't.



> It "appears" to be very, very one-sided. The WS doesn't get his needs met, therefore the BS is to blame and there you have it.


Again, not what I said or meant.



> Yes, an oversimplification, but certainly it tells me a lot about you and how you may (or may not) justify your own affair, if you've had one.


Yay! Finally someone who understands me </emo> 



> Please do not put this on her!


To be abundantly clear, I'm not. I'm saying that she needs to discover the source of the desire to seek external attention. What needs of his, in the marriage, are not being met? That's not the same as blaming her for the issues. Why does it always have to be about blame? It really doesn't, you know.



> Life gets hard. Children distract. People get sick. If one expects the world to revolve around oneself, he/she shouldn't get married. Either that or hire a concubine.


Uuumm... I don't think that word means what you think it means. A concubine *is* a mistress, usually taken when one is married.  



> Geesh. Apologies for my rant, but your post pissed me off!!


I'm over it.


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## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

_


TCx said:



Well at the risk of using external validation as evidence for my argument, several of the old timer BS'rs have stated exactly the same thing so it can't be completely without merit.

***Thank you for your reference. Appreciated.

And I am not in any way blaming the BS. I'm stating that his needs are not being met and offering potential examples of what they could be.


***I understand your point. But I ask, what about her needs? Shirley Glass wrote that often in the WS's case it isn't a matter of "getting enough" at home but rather that the WS isn't contributing enough. If the WS invested more in the marriage, contributing to the BS's needs and investing energy there instead of elsewhere, he/she might find that he/she is less focused on what's lacking in himself/herself. But then again, one has to want to invest in the person one committed to at the time of marriage. Ideally both would be looking to meet the needs of each other, BOTH, and re-connecting, establishing that emotional connection that is so vital to making a marriage or any relationship work. It can't be done if it's one-sided. But, thank you for your clarification. What I bristle at, is the emphasis on just the WS's needs not being met. No mention whatsoever of the BS's needs being neglected. I realize you are genuinely, and I mean that, trying to help. I don't know your story, and I should look up other posts or threads to better understand your perspective. I found myself irritated because your reasoning reminds me so much of the perspective of so many WS's who do not accept responsibility for the decision to go outside the marriage, essentially saying, "My needs weren't being met, therefore I did x, y, z". Apologies if I misunderstood that or misread. I'm in no way saying that it's one sided, the contribution of both parties to the deterioration of the marraige. Both parties are responsible. The affair however, the decision to go outside the marriage, despite the lack of having needs met is due to the WS's *decision* to violate a commitment. It's a weakness, and a betrayal.

It could be a purely internal thing to the WS but, from what I've seen, that's not usually the case.

***I can see this.

Again, not what I said or meant.

***Thank you

Yay! Finally someone who understands me </emo> 

****Well then.

To be abundantly clear, I'm not. * I'm saying that she needs to discover the source of the desire to seek external attention. * What needs of his, in the marriage, are not being met? That's not the same as blaming her for the issues. Why does it always have to be about blame? It really doesn't, you know.

***I couldn't agree more with the bolded part (and I'd say the same on his end IF he wants to reconcile. However, if his needs are something she can't provide --- attention without distraction, the body of a 35 year old, and a fantasy world, well then, He needs to be honest with her and let the marriage go.


Uuumm... I don't think that word means what you think it means. A concubine *is* a mistress, usually taken when one is married.  

***No, it's absolutely what I meant. For example -- the traditional concubine setting:
China Concubines Return Thanks To Increasing Capitalism

A mistress who is paid for and kept, not a mistress who is independant or entirely exclusive. In this country some women call their benefactors "sugar daddies".

I'm over it. 

Click to expand...


***take care._


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## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

OP, apologies for the threadjack, truly.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

The idea that not having one’s needs met being a contributor to affairs is not a new one. It has a lot of validity.

Actually having an affair falls 100% on the shoulders of the wayward spouse. But usually the state of the marriage falls on both spouses.

Sometimes a spouse does not allow the other to meet their needs… like when a person refuses to work on the marriage then has an affair. If a person has not told their spouse what their needs are and how they need to have them met then obviously the BS is not at fault. 

Other times a WS does make a point of telling the BS (long before the affair) what needs are not met and it’s the BS who refuses to work on the marital issues.

Sometimes it’s a character flaw… like a person who can never get enough strokes to make themselves feel desirable; or they have developed a sex addition; or they have personality and or mental health issues. The list of what can contribute to a person cheating and the how needs can go unmet is seemingly endless.

But knowing what needs are not being met for the WS is very important. If a couple wants to reconcile and affair proof the marriage they have to find out what needs were not being met for the WS and protect against that. They also have to find out what needs of the BS are not being met because the chance of a BS intern having an affair are HUGE. 

None of this is about blaming the BS for the affair. It’s about whether or not the marriage can be rebuilt and affair proofed in the future. 

In some cases a marriage cannot be affair proofed because there is no way a person can meet their needs.. for example in the case of a narcissist, or a person with a sexual addiction who refuses to get help for it. So once these are identified the BS knows that walking is their only real option.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

thesunwillcomeout said:


> ***I understand your point. But I ask, what about her needs? Shirley Glass wrote that often in the WS's case it isn't a matter of "getting enough" at home but rather that the WS isn't contributing enough. If the WS invested more in the marriage, contributing to the BS's needs and investing energy there instead of elsewhere, he/she might find that he/she is less focused on what's lacking in himself/herself. But then again, one has to want to invest in the person one committed to at the time of marriage. Ideally both would be looking to meet the needs of each other, BOTH, and re-connecting, establishing that emotional connection that is so vital to making a marriage or any relationship work. It can't be done if it's one-sided. But, thank you for your clarification. What I bristle at, is the emphasis on just the WS's needs not being met. No mention whatsoever of the BS's needs being neglected. I realize you are genuinely, and I mean that, trying to help. I don't know your story, and I should look up other posts or threads to better understand your perspective. I found myself irritated because your reasoning reminds me so much of the perspective of so many WS's who do not accept responsibility for the decision to go outside the marriage, essentially saying, "My needs weren't being met, therefore I did x, y, z". Apologies if I misunderstood that or misread. I'm in no way saying that it's one sided, the contribution of both parties to the deterioration of the marraige. Both parties are responsible. The affair however, the decision to go outside the marriage, despite the lack of having needs met is due to the WS's decision to violate a commitment. It's a weakness, and a betrayal.


I agree with all you say here. One thing that happens with most WS is that they get to be very shellfish. They no longer care enough about their spouse to protect them.. as in not having an affair.

Some people start out a relationship this way. They never really commit and only take from the marriage. 

Others go through a long time of being a good spouse only to not have their needs met.. such as in the case of a person’s whose spouse withhold affection and sex. Or in the case of a spouse who is verbally and/or physically abusive. Eventually they spouse whose needs are not met “breaks” and enters a very shellfish mental state. 

The place at which they have arrived is the same destination.. infidelity. But the path to becoming selfish and engaging in infidelity were very different paths.


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## TCx (Dec 15, 2011)

thesunwillcomeout said:


> I understand your point. But I ask, what about her needs?


Also important. But it comes down to what she wants. If she wants to R and the WS doesn't see the impact of what has been done then she needs to help him understand.

She needs to work to get her needs fulfilled, just like he does.



> Shirley Glass wrote that often in the WS's case it isn't a matter of "getting enough" at home but rather that the WS isn't contributing enough. If the WS invested more in the marriage, contributing to the BS's needs and investing energy there instead of elsewhere, he/she might find that he/she is less focused on what's lacking in himself/herself.


Interesting theory and I that this is going to be applicable to many situations, though not all (obviously).

I won't deny that there was an element of 'neglect' in my own marriage toward my BS. I don't think that my W ever suffered from a lack of affection (though I did forget the odd birthday; shame on me). But I did neglect some of the operational things either through procrastination or a desire for my W to do them.

My W was the same. No lack of love and affection but operationally, she was at least as bad as I was.

Who started it? Honestly, I think it was an artifact of our upbringing.



> But then again, one has to want to invest in the person one committed to at the time of marriage. Ideally both would be looking to meet the needs of each other, BOTH, and re-connecting, establishing that emotional connection that is so vital to making a marriage or any relationship work.


Ideally, I agree.



> It can't be done if it's one-sided.


And that's why the communication that I was going on about is so important. Communication is the way to get them on side so that it's not one-sided.



> What I bristle at, is the emphasis on just the WS's needs not being met. No mention whatsoever of the BS's needs being neglected.


The focus on the perceived gap by the WS helps you work backwards through the chain of events. You have to have a starting point. I'm not suggesting that the BS doesn't have needs or that they are not being neglected.

But you can't discuss something without a place to start. Start out by finding out what the perceived problem is, then work backwards.

eg: "He cheated because he was feeling neglected. Why? BS rejected his sexual advances? Why? Body image. Why? Because WS didn't validate her beauty" Why? She'd stopped dolling herself up. Why? Kids came along and they stopped trying together".

The journey through this cause-and-effect takes months of talking, thinking, digesting and challenging the other's perceptions.



> ... irritated because your reasoning reminds me so much of the perspective of so many WS's who do not accept responsibility for the decision to go outside the marriage, essentially saying, "My needs weren't being met, therefore I did x, y, z".


That's natural and is an indication of where the WS is at in their own thinking. 'My needs were not being met' is the first layer of the cake. Once you've established *which* needs were not met, then you dig deeper and find out why not. Once you've got that layer done, dig deeper.

IMHO, you need to apologize at every layer and forgive the other for their mistakes. Treat this as a cause-and-effect exercise, NOT a blame exercise.

The problem is that this is so hard to do. With the anger/hurt that the BS feels and the guilt that the WS will feel, someone os going to lash out. It's an inevitability. I think that's where MC adds value... that safe zone where a supposedly impartial person can mediate and remind them of why they are there.



> The affair however, the decision to go outside the marriage, despite the lack of having needs met is due to the WS's decision to violate a commitment. It's a weakness, and a betrayal.


At some point in my journey I would have disputed this; I don't anymore. And that is largely because of where I am at in my own healing process. But I don't, for example, let my W off either. We both screwed up. We both hid our feelings from each other, we both lied to each other about how we were feeling. We were both afraid of hurting the other.



> I couldn't agree more with the bolded part (and I'd say the same on his end IF he wants to reconcile. However, if his needs are something she can't provide --- attention without distraction, the body of a 35 year old, and a fantasy world, well then, He needs to be honest with her and let the marriage go.


Agreed, but if those are his motivations then he's never going to share them in that manner. So, start at the beginning, find out what the person and work backwards through the chain of cause-and-effect. Challenge it along the way.

You might not come to the right answer. But you'll have eliminated an avenue of possibility and that has value.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

thesunwillcomeout said:


> Sir, have you read Shirley Glass' book "Not Just Friends"? It would appear you haven't. But I could be wrong. This bit of information you've just written has got to be one of the most obtuse, passive, blameshifting passages I've read in a long time. Apologies if that offends you. It "appears" to be very, very one-sided. The WS doesn't get his needs met, therefore the BS is to blame and there you have it. Yes, an oversimplification, but certainly it tells me a lot about you and how you may (or may not) justify your own affair, if you've had one.
> 
> There are many marriages where the BS is appealing for help. Is wanting sex. Is dealing with the tough stuff of life (a sick child, illness in himself/herself, a death in the family) and the WS is a no-show. They've checked out. There are instances where the WS is just simply put "selfish" (in the words of my husband) and gave into "lust". Yes, pure adulterated lust -- because his wife was ill (and heavier, and now is not) and he wasn't having to contribute at home because she was doing it all and someone else who was younger, "enhanced" and available (though married) gave ego strokes and pursued. Not that he wasn't getting ego strokes at home. He was, and admits it --- but he "wanted" to hear it from the AP because that's where he was focusing his attention (and yes, his lust). He was getting his needs met at home -- or at least there was a desire to work on the marriage at home and meet those needs. A desire for more sex, constant giving of ego strokes, and yes, HE wanted to focus on the secrecy and titillation that came from an illicit attraction. He had no boundaries in place.
> 
> ...


OH HE's HAD an affair. BUT no worries, it didnt cause his divorce!!!


*Here is his post from another thread:*
An EA can end a marriage, but [IMHO] it shouldn't if the marriage was ever viable in the first place.

I had a brief EA with a colleague which threw me into all kinds of turmoil that might have ended the marriage just because of the pain that we were both in. But we both stuck with it while we thought things through and even tried a holiday away from each other.

In the end, I am divorcing my W (currently separated) but not because of the EA. The EA acted as a catalyst in our marriage. It created a tremendous amount of pain for both of us that made us focus on our relationship and the problems within it... and within us.

*I'm actually 'glad' that I had an EA now*. The hurt from it was immense but I learned so much about life, myself and my stbxw as a result of it. 

*I did not ask for a D because I love my AP (which I still do, but I also still love my W*). I asked for a D because some of the differences in our two personalities makes real communication almost impossible for us in the face of adversity and because we simply have different life goals and I think that we both need time on our own to become who we are again.

It took almost a year for me to identify the gaps in our marriage that eventually developed into rifts in our relationship which lead to feelings of rejection and resentment, etc.

So yes, an EA can end a marriage... if you let it. But it doesn't have to be the *reason* that the marriage ended.* People end marriages, not affairs. *

:lol:


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## TCx (Dec 15, 2011)

.... and the rest of the thread


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## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

TCx said:


> Also important. But it comes down to what she wants. If she wants to R and the WS doesn't see the impact of what has been done then she needs to help him understand.
> 
> She needs to work to get her needs fulfilled, just like he does.
> 
> ...


Such thoughtful dialogue. Thank you. 

I hope the OP will return to us.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

TCx said:


> .... and the rest of the thread


Oh boy, just got caught up on that thread and see those posts. 

Please, please read "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass. If you love your stbxw, still, it will only help you understand more, and that can't be a bad thing, more understanding, for any of us. Dare ya!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TCx (Dec 15, 2011)

thesunwillcomeout said:


> Dare ya!


Accepted.


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## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

TCx said:


> Accepted.


Yay.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Here we go again (Dec 1, 2012)

ok ok my turn, my H was by no means neglected in any way, and this statement "He talks to her because you are not meeting his emotional needs. Why is that? And what is it about him that is making you not want to meet his emotional needs" really upsets me whatever way you meant it. I am always available for whatever my H needs, however he chooses not to talk to me, believe me I have tried and tried to get him to open up to me about whatever is bothering him but HE chooses not to talk. i do not reject him in any way because I believe communication is key in any relationship, however i will admit that when you are the one being rejected after a while you stop asking, not stop caring, and hope that eventually that person will come to you and say Hey we need to talk. i honestly believe its just how some men are and they will never change and this is why... (im going to toot my own horn for a min) I keep our house clean while he doesnt lift a finger, all the bills are paid out of my check not his, his dinner is hot off the stove when he walks in from work, not to mention i work full time and have three teenagers to deal with. when he comes home he goes straight to our room and stays there until its bedtime. i try to get him to come in the other room with us but he doesnt, if his problem is that i am not available for us to talk alone, well guess what, i could let all the house work go, not do laundry and dishes, quit cooking, and let him do it all but just like the wall that he promised he would build in our dinning room 6 months ago, it wouldnt get done. if i didnt pay the bills we would be worse off than we are now, if i didnt go to the store there would be no food in the house, but like this past week when i was out of work for three days because i had the flu and was so dizzy when i got out of bed i almost past out twice, when i did feel better guess what, a pile of clothes and dishes waited for me (the kids were also sick) and he had the nerve to ask when i was going to get to them. really??? all of his friends brag on me when they come over because from the looks of our house you would never know three teenagers live there, so it is not, absolutely not me. like my last post said i left last week and told him i needed to think about things. i am tired of being the doormat. i am tired of not being treated as an equal and not getting the respect i deserve. we go to our frist mc session tomorrow so we'll see how that goes, but the doormat he is use to will not be there, I am a full time working mom of three who is either going to be the absolutely only woman in his life and get the help in our lives that i deserve, or im going to be a single full time working mom of three who will find a man who deserves my time. obviously i can take care of the four of us on my own im doing it now, and i let him know very frankly that i do not need him but if he wanted to be a part of this family he has a lot of work to do cause i am not coming home until i am 100% sure that this crap is over and will never happen again. we may be separated for a year before i move back in, but it will be on my terms and bacause i want to.


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## LdyVenus (Dec 1, 2012)

Maybe you are so busy with everything else that you guys haven't taken "us" time in a while. He is withdrawing from the entire family, there is definitely an issue there. Also isn't there something about the inequality between what spouses put into the marriage that causes affairs? Somebody help me out here...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

This thread appears to have been pushed off the rails a bit.

I think the problem is exactly what you originally posted. Your H has been having an A with another woman and has been lying about it. You don't need to defend your life here.

You applied to the phone co. for a record of texts, didn't you? When you get that info, you'll have a clearer idea of the extent of the lying. Stay strong and good luck.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

LdyVenus said:


> Maybe you are so busy with everything else that you guys haven't taken "us" time in a while. He is withdrawing from the entire family, there is definitely an issue there. Also isn't there something about the inequality between what spouses put into the marriage that causes affairs? Somebody help me out here...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, if ever there was a case of the mother syndrome, that post is it. This sounds a bit crazy, but you do too much, he does too little, and it is killing your marriage.

How Can I Be Your Lover When I'm Too Busy Being Your Mother?: The Answer to Becoming Partners Again:Amazon:Books

Which is not to say this is your fault, it would seem to be a fairly common trap. You can get out of it, together, but you'll both have to be committed to changing the dynamic. He will have to give up the AP for good.


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Others go through a long time of being a good spouse only to not have their needs met.. such as in the case of a person’s whose spouse withhold affection and sex. Or in the case of a spouse who is verbally and/or physically abusive. Eventually they spouse whose needs are not met “breaks” and enters a very shellfish mental state.
> 
> The place at which they have arrived is the same destination.. infidelity. But the path to becoming selfish and engaging in infidelity were very different paths.


These are often rationalizations for straying (rationalizations are simply excuses). They are not however ever valid reasons for straying. 

If the BS is blamed for anything, the reconciliation will surely fail. 

If the issues mentioned existed and the straying spouse enlightened the loyal spouse and the loyal spouse truly refused to get help or to change, than divorce is the answer, not straying. 

Later, after the infidelity is addressed deeply and thoroughly, exploring the strayer's logic for cheating, by a counselor or between the husband and wife, then and only than can any focus at all be turned to the loyal spouse to mention things lacking in the marriage that may have made it EASIER FOR THE STRAYING PARTNER TO JUSTIFY CHEATING. 

It must repeatedly be stated, by the strayer, however that there is NO VALID justification for cheating, and although there may have been contributing factors on the loyal spouses part, they are still the innocent, hurt, loyal spouse and going outside the marriage is wrong.


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## Here we go again (Dec 1, 2012)

Just a little update... we go to our first MC session today, we havent spoken about anything for a week because we both decided not to talk until we met with the counselor. so there are alot of things that have not been said, alot of things i still dont know that i want answers to. we will have about a 45 minute drive each way so i told him last night that if there was anything i didnt know, anything else he was hiding from me he needed to tell me before we got there, if he goes into this not being truthful or does the lie by omission trick, i'm out and will want a divorce. i believe they have gone underground, (work emails and work contact) but i will know whats up with how he acts after the meeting.. keep ya posted, thanks everyone for the support.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Good luck. I hope you get what you need and deserve. 

Think very seriously also about the being his mother issue. You do too much, he does too little. Love is about helping each other and being there for each other and spending time with each other. He does none of this.


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