# Tired of Being the Scapegoat!



## Les Clue (Apr 8, 2008)

Hi....

For everyone's sake I will try to keep this short and sweet. I have far too much emotion (anger/resentment/and other fun types) to use your time to vent (too much). I am miserable in my marriage. If it weren't for our beautiful young children I do believe I would have left years ago. She goes to a therapist. I go to a therapist. We both go to a marital therapist. Our eldest child (four year old daughter) is showing high anxiety and "issues." My wife blames it all on me.

Just today she told me that the stress, anxiety, and anger that I cause her makes her a bad mother, and "look how it's impacting our children!" I'm not perfect, far from it. But I am a good person and a great father. She tells me all of the things I do wrong (some I agree with, others I do not). When I try to tell her the things she brings to the table, she tells me I'm being defensive and refusing to accept responsibility for me breaking up our family.

I am beyond frustrated. It takes two to tango. I know I fail in some areas and am trying. She fails too, but refuses to listen to me. She told me today she absolutely blames all of our marital unhappiness and "breaking family" completely on me. Understanding you don't know our history (no cheating or anything), is it actually possible I am 100% responsible? I very much feel she should be 50% accountable, as should I. I am so sick and tired of being her punching bag and scapegoat. Thanks for reading and looks like I didn't keep it that short...!


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

it is IMPOSSIBLE that you are 100% responsible, to answer your question. however, if you give up on you marriage without listening to your wife's signals, however over-the-top they might sound, you might end up losing the most cherished thing on this board, a marriage. 

as poorly as she is expressing it, she's telling you what she needs and is missing. that doesn't make you the scapegoat. that makes you the recipient of her complaints. your role as a husband is to listen and figure out what it is that would remove the burden.

you are not the bad guy. we just are not taught what to do in these situations. the five love languages is an oft-recommended book here. try reading it. don't let your marriage get away because you feel scapegoated. not to sound critical because i have no room, but you're selfish thinking.


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## brad (Jul 31, 2008)

This is a perfect example of how I would like to hear the other side of the story. There appears to be something missing when she is blaming you for things but nothing you can be specific in the post.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

voivod said:


> as poorly as she is expressing it, she's telling you what she needs and is missing. that doesn't make you the scapegoat. that makes you the recipient of her complaints. your role as a husband is to listen and figure out what it is that would remove the burden.


:iagree:

If she comes at you again, just listen and respond to what she is saying. Dont become defensive. Listen to the emotions behind her words and empathize with her. That doesnt mean you are actually 100% accountable for your kids. Empathizing with her feelings doesnt make her right and you wrong. It just means thats what she feels and you are showing that you care. 

If you disagree with this, then wait until another time to talk to her about how you are feeling. Just dont do it at the same time she is trying to talk to you.


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## Les Clue (Apr 8, 2008)

There are entirely way too many things to specifically address in a post. We have three very young children and quite an unhappy marriage. I originally was done with two kids but said I would do three for her. Today she told me she wants more. I explained that I would certainly consider having more in the future, but first and foremost we have to make ours a functional, happy household before doing so. To me, that's imperative. She has brought up divorce so many times, I can't even imagine bringing another child into this world under these conditions. I didn't tell her "No," I only said I felt we had to work on us first (and it wouldn't help to get some more money, too). She called me a "dream crusher." She said I should totally be on board because it's what she wants, it's what will make her happy. I thought that's why we had a third? Dream crusher? It seems very unfair to bring more children into such a volatile home. I want to be supportive of her wishes and dreams, but I also want to be realistic, ESPECIALLY when it involves other lives, particularly little ones! I feel like I'm in a lose/lose. I could tell her I 100% support her and her wish to have more children, but then have more financial/emotional stress with a high probability of the baby growing up in a broken home, or I can stick to the way I feel and have my wife resentment me for being a dream crusher. She suffers from bad OCD and these situations only make it worse for her. I didn't become defensive and I completely tried to empathize with her. It just seems to me there is a clear right and wrong for the moment, and we need to become a healthy, functioning household before considering more children. Does anyone disagree? Would any of you have more children under poor marital circumstances to make your spouse feel better? I feel so hopeless/helpless.


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

les,you say:

>>>She suffers from bad OCD and these situations only make it worse for her.<<<

has she been diagnosed as ocd? or are you offering your disgnosis?
because she CAN be treated.

and:

>>>I didn't become defensive and I completely tried to empathize with her. It just seems to me there is a clear right and wrong for the moment<<< 

you version of right and wrong is just that, YOURS

and:

>>>and we need to become a healthy, functioning household before considering more children. Does anyone disagree?<<<

can't say. it's so hard to tell from oneside of the story. i don't think a child should be put in a desparate situation, for sure. start with the first one. is she diagnosed ocd? she treats that and all the rest might fall into place.


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## Les Clue (Apr 8, 2008)

She has been diagnosed with OCD by three different professionals. Her current therapist apparently has told her that I cause her OCD. I started going to therapy a long time ago and he tells me I contribute to her anxiety but don't cause her OCD. So on one side I have a wife who is demanding I take accountability for causing her OCD, then I've got a therapist who tells me she needs to realize only she has control over her emotions and that our marital stress is contributing to her OCD, but I'm not causing it. Both sides are very adamant with their stance, and they are both confusing the hell out of me.

That is a good point about my reference to "a clear right and wrong" - it is absolutely my own version and I do need to be more open to her side. She yells at me a lot for not seeing her side of things and I try hard every day. I just wish I felt she would do the same for me.

Ours is a desperate situation to be sure. We can barely manage our relationship with the children we have now; surely adding more is not the solution at the moment (in my opinion, but my opinion should count too). She has been in therapy for her OCD for years now. She says she feels like she's finally making some progress, but this seems to be a vicious circle: Her OCD cannot be treated as long as there is constant stress and anxiety, our lives are full of stress and anxiety, preventing her relief from OCD, preventing us from moving forward, keeping us both unhappy. She told me recently that she has this weird "check and balance" thing. She's afraid that if things get too "good" then something "bad" will happen. To avoid the inevitable bad from spontaneously happening, she will create the bad (a fight, chaos, etc.) herself to "control the situation." So I now have high levels of anxiety even when things are good because I'm wondering if she will try to make them bad and "keep things in check."


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

She might benefit from knowing that you have a similar check and balance...that if things get too "bad" something "worse" will happen. You seem drained from the way her OCD has affected your relationship with her. It's a good sign that she feels she's making progress, and realizing she has a need to control her environment is a good sign IMO because until she is able to recognize it and realize its impact on your family she can't begin to try to change her behavior. I don't think adding another child to an already unstable situation is a good idea.

It sounds like you both feel the other is not listening/supportive. Is the marriage counseling getting anywhere on this front?


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

Les Clue said:


> Her OCD cannot be treated as long as there is constant stress and anxiety, our lives are full of stress and anxiety, preventing her relief from OCD, preventing us from moving forward, keeping us both unhappy.


Sounds like she has you in check and is keeping you down...well, at least you are allowing her to.

its hard to know what are your issues, what are her issues, and what are the relationships issues. Sounds like there are some blurring of boundaries between you two, and it sounds like you are taking responsibility for things beyond your control (her anxiety/OCD). And likewise it sounds like you are holding her accountable for things that are not her responsibility (your happiness). 

Sounds like you need a break. Since your wife has OCD im guessing there is no break for her. But i think you could use one.

I think you ought to get a book about boundaries. It will help you know what is your responsibility to yourself and her. It will also help you learn to make yourself happy again in-spite of her issues.

but by all means do something for yourself to give yourself a mental break from all this. allow yourself even ten minutes to just be by yourself and not accountable for anyone but you.


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## brad (Jul 31, 2008)

No your not wrong in not bringing another child into an unstable relationship. Your not a "dream crusher". That is pure manipulation on her behalf. Stick to your guns on that one my friend.


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

the ocd question was a big one. i think your conclusion that it's not best to bring another child into it is responsible. the other responsible thing is to help her understand that the therapy for ocd it a great step. she's putting faith in others to help her deal with it, and that's huge. let her know that.


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## Les Clue (Apr 8, 2008)

Thanks to all for the advice and words of encouragement. Reality has become quite a blur over the past few years. I want to meet all of her needs (of which, she will admit, there are many), but sometimes it's either impossible or, in my opinion, not always rational. She is extremely emotional and holds me accountable for her emotional and psychological well-being which doesn't seem completely fair. She's always looking to me to make her feel better but I can't always. And when I can't, she really lets me know it (massive fights). It's also true that I hold her accountable for my happiness which isn't her responsibility. But it wasn't always like this. It's just gotten to the point where, how can I actually be happy when she tells me I'm sadistic, mean, unsupportive, etc., and yells at me until I apologize? It's pretty difficult to not have my happiness stem from her because only when she's happy are we all genuinely happy. Very sad, but very true.

I am allowing her to keep me down. If I'm happy and she's not, I am ignoring her needs. I'm being selfish. So any break I give myself (at least while things are bad) is viewed by her as me being avoiding and completely unsupportive. I've tried to tell her I need support too which she says she understands, but I can't need it when she needs it. When she is angry and needy, she trumps everyone. If I can't support her and make her feel better, we all pay the price. That's why when she's raising her voice at our children it's my fault - because I haven't been "nice" to her. I feel like she puts TOO MUCH on to me and has no accountability for herself.

My therapist seems to think my wife is crazy (obviously I am paraphrasing!), but she only hears my side of the story. Her therapist says I am causing her OCD. Can they both be right? Hence the fuzzy reality. My wife just told me that she doesn't want to go to our marital therapist anymore because he and I overestimate how much she can take, that we attack her too much. I don't see that at all, and we certainly talk about my flaws too. I told her I view it as an opportunity for growth, not as attacks. I used to be a very happy person. My children make me ecstatic, as do my friends and family. It's just tragic that my marriage is making both my wife and I miserable. We both need it to change immediately, but we've been saying that for years....

Sorry for the long post! The wife let me have it again this morning so I guess I'm in one of those places. Again.


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## Honey (Sep 2, 2008)

You are smart to not want any more kids, until you fix what is wrong with your marriage first. If she is unhappy with you, why does she want want to have more kids for? Having kids will not fix the both of you... it will cause more stress on you both, if the marriage isn't working. If you guys are having trouble, the best thing is to not have any more kids, they are the ones that suffer if you two break up.


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## Sweet love (Sep 10, 2008)

I dont get why people make kids just ot get married and then use it to get pregnant again wehn things are goign bad like its going to belike first time again and things will go fine.. on the opposit a new kids crabve more form both and its entirely silly to do that kind of things.
you have to eb a real good couple and have a mature way to relate together before havign kids. And if things are goign bad then you have to fix it within oyu first..
anythign else is using pregnacy and children to dont have to deal with reality, and to hidde the from the problems.
You tell her that.

as for the other things: get a divorce and fast that will give her a wake up call.
You both gfo to a therapsit and its that bad?
go TOGETHER to see a counselor, so that he or she can see how oyur wife react when you talk and how she blames everythign on you.
it migth be too late for the kids
you shouldnt have staty together when this marriage was so bad nor have kids.
i dont get it.
th eoldest is only 4 years old and oyu are both on hterapy meaning.. it was goign wrong right from the start?!
why did you2 marry?
Try couseling and get her to stop palying the blaming game.
You aint cheating on ehr so i dont get her anxiety issues.
I bet she was anxious person before meeting you.
Anothe rthing you could do will be to meet her therapist and ask him or her what oyu could do.
Tell that doc what your problem is and if he or she think it will be best that you divorce.
Try marriage counseling and if she keep her s--- then divorce.
Has she or oyu talk about divorce before?
It sounds to me like she is taking you for granted..
so say goodbye to ehr so she can see she is as stressed and anxious and even more when you arent there.

You have to leave her and take the children or ask her to go for two weeks visit a parent or soemthign like that.
I also think that the 2 therapists, yorus and hers, should meet and have a talk together.
mayeb your wife got a problem that her therapsit isnt yet aware of.
You didnt gave much bdetails as for what concretely the problem is when she get needy, but I htink she must be more independent and stop ot put all on you and depend so muhc on oyu.
Of course.
how old is she?
tell ehr htat when she shout at the kids, thats her who do so and its her responsability and not yours. And that seh shouldnt report her anger on the kids, an dlash out on them and that she is conscious of it and might even do it on purpose.
tell ehr to stop that too.
its not a good marriage at al
if she dont change you wil have to leave.
Seems to me like she has a big personal unsecurity problem and selfworth problem. She is scared and it spoil everything.


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## Les Clue (Apr 8, 2008)

I agree that she needs a wake up call, but I don't think divorce is the answer (at least right now). She has threatened divorce probably 20 times, but it's never gotten past that. I've certainly thought about it, but it always comes down to what is best for the kids. Unfortunately it may be best that their mother and I go our separate ways, but I want to try everything else before it comes to that. Yes, we both go to therapists both separately AND together, and none of them seem to be helping. 

Last night we argued. This morning we argued. I can't deal with this anymore. This morning she told me she couldn't get through the day today with all the kids and she has no help. I tried to help her think of ways to get help but couldn't come up with anything feasible. I know she was hinting at me taking off work, but I've been doing that a bit too much recently and I can't afford to do it anymore. Our kids were being a handful in the other room, and she just lost it. I won't go into details, but there was swearing, door slams, and the kids were scared and crying. After the kids were loaded up in the car I told her we needed to have a talk, and her response was "F**k, you are NOT lecturing me right now!" I told her this wasn't a lecture but, even if it was, when it involves our children and my perception that they are scared and/or mistreated, she is going to hear about it from me. She got nothing but defensive, my frustration rose as she just wasn't listening, then she said "F**k you, you're worthless." We haven't talked since.

I do agree that she needs a wake up call. I am tired of taking (and accepting) all of the blame. I want to move out, but I don't see the good that will do. Sure, it will be good for both of us to have a break from each other. But I NEED her to understand the issues she brings to the table in order for us to get better, but that can never happen when she firmly believes it's all my fault. Plus, she obviously cannot handle stress! With me out of the house she may have less husband stress but certainly more child stress (I would obviously still do my duties as a father, but it would be difficult to do as much as I currently do when I'm not living at home). I don't feel comfortable with her stressed and around our kids.

I know I'm going to get it later. She's going to tell me that she was an awful mother today, and it's all because I was so unfair and unsupportive today. "You should have just said _________ and it would have all been better!" 

I want to do what's right, but especially for the kids. Do you think it could be best for them if I move out?! I don't know how much more of her crap I can take, and I'm sure she feels the same way.


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

>>>she doesn't want to go to our marital therapist anymore because he and I overestimate how much she can take, that we attack her too much.<<<

find a new counselor that specializes in cbt or even gestalt. either way you'd not have to worry about that crap. btw- i'm oficially hunting for new counseling. can ya tell?


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

Because you have no clue what your boundaries are and how to enforce them, your wife has been able to manipulate you. She's out of control, but she sounds like a spoiled brat in an adult body. I know you think she has to change in order for you to feel better, but really that is not the case. she reacts the way she does because, like any spoiled brat, she's used to getting what she wants. im guessing you have a pretty hard time saying no to her. she throws a fit when you do. believe me i was this way with my H for awhile, too. I truly believed he needed to change to make me happy, which of course is what your wife thinks of you. I would fly off the handle, swear, throw things, break things, all those lovely qualities. Pretty freakin' ridiculous in retrospect. 

You very well may need some space from her just to clear your head. If that is what you need, then do it. But before you give up read some boundary books and do boundary workbooks. You really can do something about how her behavior affects you. First and foremost stop engaging with her when she's being ridiculous. At this point in your relationship, never argue with her. she will beat you emotionally every time because you have no boundaries. Simply let her know her behavior is verbally abusive and when she can talk to you respectfully you'll talk to her and leave it at that. Let her know what the consequences are when she is verbally abusive. The less you say, and the more you do, the more she'll hear. 

After you've learned about your boundaries, and how to be accountable for you, then try to talk to her again. but for your sanity, every time she escalates, there should be consequences and no talking. If it helps you just repeat, 'I am not responsible for your behavior.' its more for you then her.

My H started reading about boundaries and stopped playing into my antics. Sure it was hard and i freaked out for a little while, but now i respect what he needs and i know he's not responsible for my happiness.


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