# Platonic? Or not...



## Abbygirl (May 15, 2014)

I am a 30 year old physician, and I have been with my fiance for a year and half. We got engaged in November, and overall, I would say our relationship is excellent. He is loving, attentive, and as far as I can tell, very loyal. He has a good set of values in place, and really seems to want the whole marriage, two kids, backyard, etc etc thing. There is one sticking point though, that I would really like some advice on. He has a friend who he met way back in college. He says they have only been friends, never dated. However, he has admitted to me that he finds her attractive, and I saw some old text conversations (from a few years back) between them that were very flirtatious. At one point she made a joke about "making out with him" and he responded by saying "I would be totally ok with that!" However, he denies to me that there was ever sexual chemistry between them. She is a very promiscuous party girl. Perpetually single, works in the music industry, out at multiple bars and parties virtually every single night. She dresses in very skimpy clothing and wears a ton of makeup, even to a casual BBQ! She prides herself on getting men to hit on her and buy her drinks, and she has frequently ended up drunk in random guys' apartments late at night with no way home. She had an affair with a married man, and when it went south, she went on a public rant on social media stating that his wife was a "hideous beast" and that he was "way to attractive for her." She is very full of herself, to put is simply. 

Although my fiance claims that her lifestyle doesn't really appeal to him, he feels an attachment to her. He has been friends with her for 12 years, and he feels like she is one of his "closest" pals. Early in our relationship, I got upset because he planned a night out with her without even telling me, or including me. This was before I had even met the woman. He defended his behavior stating that he used to see her several times a week, and since we started seeing one another, he felt like he was losing touch with someone important to him. He says that since he never dated her, why should it bother me? 

Later on, after I met this woman and saw their interactions, I actually compromised and said I was ok with them grabbing drinks as long as I knew about it ahead of time. In our last argument a couple months ago, he blew up at me and accused me of being jealous and poisoning his relationship with this woman. He said that I made it "uncomfortable" for him to see his "friend," and that from now on he was going to hang out with her alone whenever he "feels like it." The truth is, she doesn't really make much time for him, and he hasn't seen her that much. I think he was partly acting out, trying to make a control play. She seems to view him like her little puppy-dog, following her around all doe-eyed, worshiping her miniskirt clad extroverted self (maybe because he is a bit of an introvert who doesn't fit in well with the LA trendy scene). But she seems to go for a more party-guy type. Regardless, she really goes for the conquest more than anything. She doesn't want to marry or have kids (which I think might have been one of the reasons my fiance didn't pursue her harder early on), but she has no trouble collecting notches in her bedpost. For instance, she loves to post old photos on facebook of her with random men (with her leg up around them, tongue out, drunk, etc etc), and then tag these guys so it shows up on their feeds. Almost like she is sending a message to the women they are with now. She did it recently with my fiance. She dug up some old college photo of him with his arms around her waste, and her completely trashed. I don't know if it was a platonic photo or not, but it looks very suspicious. Which is exactly why she posted it. This, combined with all the prior flirting via text, makes me very uncomfortable. They don't seem to be flirting now, but is it ok for a guy to be friends with a woman he feels strong physical attraction to?

Some people tell me to just ignore it, and that she will disappear as we build a life together. She has already faded out of the picture some, and I don't want to poison my relationship with jealousy. The truth is, she is trashy with a dead end job. I am far more accomplished and my fiance's family seems to adore me. So why throw it out for something petty? But it does bother me, and I am afraid that down the line, this woman could try to pull something. Any thoughts?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Hate to say it but you should have bowed out "a few years back" when this first bothered you.

People rarely change.

And I just want to point out that the way you describe her, without a single kind word, says a lot.



Abbygirl said:


> She is a very promiscuous party girl. Perpetually single, works in the music industry, out at multiple bars and parties virtually every single night. She dresses in very skimpy clothing and wears a ton of makeup, even to a casual BBQ! She prides herself on getting men to hit on her and buy her drinks, and she has frequently ended up drunk in random guys' apartments late at night with no way home. She had an affair with a married man, and when it went south, she went on a public rant on social media stating that his wife was a "hideous beast" and that he was "way to attractive for her." She is very full of herself, to put is simply.
> 
> The truth is, she is ****ty with a dead end job. *I am far more accomplished *and my fiance's family seems to adore me.


...


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## SpinDaddy (Nov 12, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> Hate to say it but you should have bowed out "a few years back" when this first bothered you.
> 
> People rarely change.
> 
> ...


Exactly, you've heard the story of the frog and the scorpion – no?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I actually haven't. School me!


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Hard as it will be, please cut it off with this guy. You can do much better. Much, much better.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

I don't understand why you have to cut her down and be so snooty about her when she's not the problem.Your man is the problem. 

Get rid of him for the sake of your own mental well being. 

Then maybe try learning how to stop being so judgmental toward your fellow female. She's just trying to get by with what she has been given.We can't all be smooth,calm,and classy physicians.


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## C123 (Jun 20, 2012)

Abbygirl said:


> He is loving, attentive, and as far as I can tell, very loyal. He has a good set of values in place, and really seems to want the whole marriage, two kids, backyard, etc etc thing.


Hold on a sec. He fell in love with you, asked you to marry him, is all of things you mentioned above but won't give up a woman "friend" who is not really any kind of friend at all?

Major red flag. MAJOR. He's in love with her and can't have her. He's been "friend zoned" by her and he's hanging on to any little thread he can. Trust me, I'm a dude who's been there. You're always waiting for your way in with these girls. They lead you on, lead you on, lead you on and then bang your friends right in front of your eyes, but always come back to you because you're "safe." I was smart and saw the writing on the wall. Your fiance, while perhaps intelligent, is not smart and secretly hopes that one day his friend will calm down and be all the things you actually are. I'd be very cautious. Your gut is telling you something here. Always listen to your women's intuition. It doesn't lie.

One day after you're married, he'll meet up with her at a bar and she'll conquer him like Mt. Everest in the back of her 94 Chevy Cavalier simply because she can.

Maybe I'm going too far, but hell, even my women's intuition is buzzing and I'm not even a woman!


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## ReidWright (May 15, 2014)

Sure, she sounds like someone to keep an eye on, but nothing that you can't manage. Your boundaries seemed reasonable (no secret meetings), maybe revisit them now that he has calmed down.

Do you have any guy friends? or ex-boyfriends you still keep in contact with? Same rules apply, etc.


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## happysnappy (Jan 8, 2013)

I've actually been in a similar situation. Trust your gut. As soon as I ended things guess who he ended up with.....yep "the friend".


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## MoonBay (Mar 10, 2013)

The fact that he isn't willing to let her go and places her on a pedestal above you speaks volumes.

Let him go and find someone who respects you more than what this guy is giving you.

It may be hard, but you really have to let him go because if someone were to ask him, I'd bet he'd say he truly wants that toxic friend.


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## Abbygirl (May 15, 2014)

It is really a difficult situation. On the one hand, I really do trust him and I don't think he would be willing to risk throwing out everything we have for a "fling" with a woman who has no interest in anything long term with him. But many of you make good points. I am not sure why he is so protective of his relationship with her. In seeing them together, it all appears very superficial, and almost stilted. I know he is someone who likes to cling to memories of the past, and elevate them above what they were at the time. Maybe she represents a piece of his youth he doesn't want to part with. But it hurts me to think he might really be in love with her...friend zoned and hoping for the day she settles down and chooses him. She and I are different on every level. We are very different physically, profession-wise, personality-wise. I am a homebody who avoids clubs and bars like the plague. She is out every night, sometimes hopping from one bar to another, all the way across town. I am modest with my clothing, and wear very little makeup. She is dressed in coktail dresses and tight skirts with full on stage makeup at all times. I am self conscious about being naked even in front of my fiance, and she has it all out on display for the world. I have a two drink max (usually only one), and there is a good chance she might be alcoholic. She drinks every night, and often to the point of being falling down drunk. So how could he love us both when we are so different? Also, he is very protective of her. It is almost like he gets off on coming to her rescue when she is in a compromising situation. He told me about a time some guy was trying to pressure her into coming home with him, and since she was too drunk to say "no," he stepped in and got her home safely. There is something so unhealthy about this...but I don't want to overreact and appear insecure and jealous.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Ok, here's the scoop.

In a marriage, it's really not possible for either of you to have a friend of the opposite sex. And what I mean by that is a friend that is not kept at arms length somehow. You can have friends but not "close friends". In particular you cannot have a close friend of the opposite sex that your spouse does not approve of for whatever reason. Certainly a husband cannot have a sexy friend, a ****ty friend, a friend who acts like this girl does. Recall that men want to have sex with all the women they know. So, your thought process is on track for a successful marriage.

Now, your fiancee is young, and has not married you yet, and therefore has not fully come to terms with what it means to be a husband. So he is still thinking like a single person. But, his reaction is far from ideal for the following reasons:
-- Why would he want to be friends with a person of low moral character when he wants to marry a successful person of high moral character? 
-- It's really not a good sign that he "rebels" against your concern rather than agreeing to it. You see, people want to be friends with others becuase of what they get out of that friendship. They do not stay friends with people due to some "principle" such as I must be friends with her becuase you are too controlling. The jealous / controlling is a way to make you quesiton your own sanity.

But, ultimately, can your marriage be successful if he is friends with her as a married man? Regardless of whether every other woman on earth could be OK with it, YOU are not OK with it. You can't make yourself ok with it. By the way there are many who would be OK with it but there are many who would not be ok with it. So I don't think you can have a sucessful marriage with this person in his life. It will always be a problem.

I would more or less tell him that you are not willing to share him. And by share you mean his attention, his time, his emotions.... As a married woman they will belong to you and not to another. And I would tell him that will apply to YOU as well. You will not be having male friends. But ultimately you must give him the choice and you make your choice based on what he decides.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

This guy sounds like a groupie. He'd pounce on her if she were even a little bit interested. Find someone who doesn't already have a girlfriend unless you want to play second fiddle.


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## C123 (Jun 20, 2012)

"I know he is someone who likes to cling to memories of the past, and elevate them above what they were at the time."

Not a good thing, Abbygirl. He can't live in the present or for the future. He's always living in the past.

"So how could he love us both when we are so different?"

Really? Men and women are not robots with a preset for the type of people they love. He loves what he wants her to be, not what she is.

"Also, he is very protective of her. It is almost like he gets off on coming to her rescue when she is in a compromising situation."

White Knight syndrome. Read about it. It's not healthy.

Abbygirl - you seem very smart, accomplished, intelligent and caring. Your alarm bells are ringing. Pay attention! Listen to your head as much as your heart. It's right in front of you. Don't make a mistake that can easily be avoided!


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

OK post #11 you just posted has alot of new information in it.

Marriage material and sexual attraction material are usually two different things. When one thinks of marriage they think of money, house, car, security, good mother to kids etc... When one wants sexual excitement they think of hot bodies, danger, "not repressed".... Etc.

The thing that's really important if you want to get married is you must be more sexually awake. If you are ashamed to get naked in front of him, and he seems to have attraction to a ****ty girl.... this is a big red flag that your marriage could have serious problems. But, as a wife would it be easier for you to "let loose a little" or would it be easiser for a party girl to become a responsible Doctor? So you have the advantage as far as I'm concerned.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Red flag. Why is he putting himself into a situation that can only go one direction with her (based on her behavior). 

Why does he put her relationship above your priorities and feelings. With my spouse, nothing will stop us from pleasing each other. Either uncomfortable with something, we respect each other first. Always. 

He needs to grow up before you consider even being a fiancé. I'd say, put it all on hold. It's her or me. Let's see the response. I see nothing but the same forever with him. If not her, then someone else will be there in his mind.

You know the old saying: Marriage - a relationship where she hopes he'll change but doesn't; and where he hopes she'll never change, but does.

I am concerned this behavior won't change. Not without a 2x4 across the head every 30 days... 

Marriage is not a full time babysitting job. It's a full-time commitment to each other no matter what. Such a small thing to dump a toxic friend. Hmmm.....


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I really hope you drop this guy soon, Abbygirl. You will find someone else, a man of integrity. Drop him and let him wait for the other girl. You really deserve better.


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## Miss Independent (Mar 24, 2014)

Abbygirl said:


> It is really a difficult situation. On the one hand, I really do trust him and I don't think he would be willing to risk throwing out everything we have for a "fling" with a woman who has no interest in anything long term with him. But many of you make good points. I am not sure why he is so protective of his relationship with her. In seeing them together, it all appears very superficial, and almost stilted. I know he is someone who likes to cling to memories of the past, and elevate them above what they were at the time. Maybe she represents a piece of his youth he doesn't want to part with. But it hurts me to think he might really be in love with her...friend zoned and hoping for the day she settles down and chooses him. She and I are different on every level. We are very different physically, profession-wise, personality-wise. I am a homebody who avoids clubs and bars like the plague. She is out every night, sometimes hopping from one bar to another, all the way across town. I am modest with my clothing, and wear very little makeup. She is dressed in coktail dresses and tight skirts with full on stage makeup at all times. I am self conscious about being naked even in front of my fiance, and she has it all out on display for the world. I have a two drink max (usually only one), and there is a good chance she might be alcoholic. She drinks every night, and often to the point of being falling down drunk. So how could he love us both when we are so different? Also, he is very protective of her. It is almost like he gets off on coming to her rescue when she is in a compromising situation. He told me about a time some guy was trying to pressure her into coming home with him, and since she was too drunk to say "no," he stepped in and got her home safely. There is something so unhealthy about this...but I don't want to overreact and appear insecure and jealous.



You should focus on your fiancé and not his friend. She's not the problem, her skirt or the fact that she's an alcoholic is not the problem. Your fiancé is. So focus on him not her


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## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

Hicks said:


> I would more or less tell him that you are not willing to share him. And by share you mean his attention, his time, his emotions.... As a married woman they will belong to you and not to another.


:iagree::iagree: He's already reacting badly when you even mention that you have a problem with this. You're not married yet, you don't have children. This should be the most intense phase of your relationship where you think about each other all of the time and want to be together constantly. There shouldn't be room in his heart for anyone else.

Get rid of him. If I had a daughter in this situation, this is exactly what I would tell her. I've said it over and over again: no one should be second choice. If he is so fascinated with her, let him invest all of him time trying to be with her! You're young and intelligent, and there is plenty of time to find someone who wants to invest all of his time in you, not a "friend" from the past.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Generally, when a man spends a lot of time with a woman, it's because he wants sex with her.

She has him the friends zone.

the idea is to stay friends with the hope that one day she will be vulnerable and he can get what he wants.

Your problem is not her. Its him. He is not being honest with himself or with you.


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## Abbygirl (May 15, 2014)

I think what is so painful about this is that I am not sure if he is actually "in love" with her now. I know there was infatuation and flirting going on before he met me. But he was also lonely at the time, and she was essentially the only woman he felt comfortable hanging out with. Basically, being in the friend zone was the best he could get. But now he is with me, I would like to believe he is truly in love, and not thinking about her in that way anymore. Maybe I am naive. I do have to wonder why he is still so protective of her, and why he would want anything at all to do with her, even superficially. Why wouldn't he be happy to cut her out completely when she really doesn't provide him with anything...unless that attraction is still there. I will tell you one thing, it is hard to be loving and intimate toward someone when you wonder whether or not they are really imagining themselves with someone else. 

I don't know whether to confront him or not. I did peak at texts without his permission, so I am technically not supposed to know about all the flirting. Should I tell her to take that photo down off facebook? Should I bide my time and see how things play out? I don't want to wreck an otherwise amazing relationship over this. It isn't like I have any reason to believe he has been cheating on me (yet!), so what is my next move?


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## C123 (Jun 20, 2012)

Abbygirl - I feel for you. I really do. Stop being delusional. He's not having an affair with her. He WANTS to have a life with her. He's her white knight, saving her from a life of debauchery and ****tiness and he's waiting for his opportunity.

All you need to know is that he's unwilling to cut this person out of his life at your request. If he truly loved you and cared for you the way you want him to, then he would do this in two seconds. 

Here's what you should do regarding confrontation. Tell him that your woman's intuition is telling you that something is going on with her. Don't tell him you were looking at his texts. Just tell him that you very strongly believe that he has more than just friendship feelings for this girl and that if that's the case, then that's okay, but you need to know now. It's not fair to string you along if he has feelings for someone else and you know he's not the kind of man who would do that.

If he denies he has feelings for her, then tell him he needs to cut her out of his life for you. Your intuition tells you she's trouble and that if the two of you are going to have a life together, this kind of influence is not good.

If he gets defensive or angry, you have your answer. If he tells you he has feelings for her, you have your answer. If he won't cut her out, you have your answer.

The only good ending is if he agrees, tells you he loves you and on the spot cuts her out of his life.

Don't be so naive. You have so much going for you. He's not the only guy in LA County worth your time!!!


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## Dayhiker (Mar 5, 2011)

Abbygirl said:


> I think what is so painful about this is that I am not sure if he is actually "in love" with her now. I know there was infatuation and flirting going on before he met me. But he was also lonely at the time, and she was essentially the only woman he felt comfortable hanging out with. Basically, being in the friend zone was the best he could get. But now he is with me, I would like to believe he is truly in love, and not thinking about her in that way anymore. Maybe I am naive. I do have to wonder why he is still so protective of her, and why he would want anything at all to do with her, even superficially. Why wouldn't he be happy to cut her out completely when she really doesn't provide him with anything...unless that attraction is still there. I will tell you one thing, it is hard to be loving and intimate toward someone when you wonder whether or not they are really imagining themselves with someone else.
> 
> I don't know whether to confront him or not. I did peak at texts without his permission, so I am technically not supposed to know about all the flirting. Should I tell her to take that photo down off facebook? Should I bide my time and see how things play out? I don't want to wreck an otherwise amazing relationship over this. It isn't like I have any reason to believe he has been cheating on me (yet!), so what is my next move?


You do not need to give him a fair trial, you already know that at the very least he has inappropriate feelings for this woman, that it bothers you and that he doesn't respect your feelings on the matter.

Just tell him that your gut,(or woman's intuition) tells you something's wrong and walk away. This situation won't get better after you marry him because you will have known about it and married him anyways.


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## MoonBay (Mar 10, 2013)

C123 said:


> Abbygirl - I feel for you. I really do. Stop being delusional. He's not having an affair with her. He WANTS to have a life with her. He's her white knight, saving her from a life of debauchery and ****tiness and he's waiting for his opportunity.
> 
> All you need to know is that he's unwilling to cut this person out of his life at your request. If he truly loved you and cared for you the way you want him to, then he would do this in two seconds.
> 
> ...


:iagree: Abbygirl, follow this advice. All of the signs are in front of you. Since you have more of an analytical thought process, going through these steps will give you concrete answers that you'll be able to see for yourself.


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