# Married men have lower testosterone



## camillaj (Aug 3, 2013)

I don't know if this is old news here but it's interesting.

_"Even though high T people are very social, they can also be more irritable and confrontational. "On the average, high-testosterone individuals are tougher, and low-testosterone individuals are friendlier," says Dabbs.

This difference may have evolutionary advantages in how we reproduce and raise children. Higher testosterone may be important in securing a mate, but lower testosterone may be better for being a good parent and caregiver. Dabbs, in fact, found that married men are lower in testosterone than single men and that testosterone levels dropped when men get married and go up when they get divorced. He also found that men have higher levels of prolactin and lower levels of testosterone immediately after they become fathers. "Perhaps these hormonal changes set them up for the gentler activities of parenthood," Dabbs concludes."_

Testosterone: The Magic Molecule That Can Make Us a Hero, a Rogue or a Lover | Jed Diamond


----------



## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

camillaj said:


> Testosterone: The Magic Molecule That Can Make Us a Hero, a Rogue or a Lover | Jed Diamond


And the ladies want all of them ... at the same time.


----------



## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

*Increases the urge to masturbate rather than the desire for intercourse.*

I'm not well read on testerone but this bullet point in the article doesn't make sense to me. 

Anyway I been married 8 years with my H for 10 and I can definitely say there was no downward swing in any of the indicators.


----------



## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Important to keep in mind that T levels are a range. There are different measurements of that range. Therefore a man having a T level of 1100 and drops to 900 as a result of pair bonding and/or parenthood is still a much different guy than the dude whose level is at 500 and drops to 200 or 300.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Deejo said:


> Important to keep in mind that T levels are a range. There are different measurements of that range. Therefore a man having a T level of 1100 and drops to 900 as a result of pair bonding and/or parenthood is still a much different guy than the dude whose level is at 500 and drops to 200 or 300.


There was a study that showed the opposite. I believe they sampled good relationships for that study. If its a henpecked and socially castrated sexless position of course the testosterone will drop.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ohno (Jul 11, 2013)

I think biochemistry (t levels and so forth) is dynamic, an active system in each person and that mated pairs (ie married couples esp with kids) tend to adjust to each others biochemistry when things are healthy. 

I think a big reason t drops during marriage is because the male is adjusting his biochemistry in response to her desire for a lower t male during the child rearing stage of the marriage. 

Women who don't want lowered t usually don't get it, and if they do get it, there is a problem. That is what I mean by things being healthy. 

I think it is ESSENTIAL that a man maintains maxed out t levels at all times (for his range) while making the conscious effort to provide her needs for more of a beta type male, when and as she needs it. Yes it is possible for a high t male to take on beta characteristics when necessary.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

ohno said:


> I think biochemistry (t levels and so forth) is dynamic, an active system in each person and that mated pairs (ie married couples esp with kids) tend to adjust to each others biochemistry when things are healthy.
> 
> I think a big reason t drops during marriage is because the male is adjusting his biochemistry in response to her desire for a lower t male during the child rearing stage of the marriage.
> 
> ...


Do you think brain chemestry, and social environment, stress, lack of sex, lack of empowerment could affect testosterone levels?


----------



## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

treyvion said:


> There was a study that showed the opposite. I believe they sampled good relationships for that study. If its a henpecked and socially castrated sexless position of course the testosterone will drop.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Suffice to say, I think EVERYONE benefits biochemistry wise by participating in emotionally healthy relationships.

The curtains of this debate change all of the time. High Test, Low Test, Alpha, Beta, Integrated Male vs. Mr. Nice Guy.

Arguably, ALL of those discussions, efforts and self management are geared toward a specific goal; being happy with oneself, and happy with the partner one has chosen.


----------



## ohno (Jul 11, 2013)

treyvion said:


> Do you think brain chemestry, and social environment, stress, lack of sex, lack of empowerment could affect testosterone levels?


Oh most definitely. The interesting thing to me is that our biochemistry is determined through childhood and puberty through both pure internal biology and environmental factors over a long period of time (conditioning). So as adults, our system is pretty much in place and kind of determines our interface with the outside world and what we put out there. Which in turn of course has the result of input that usually continues the basic pattern of our system. 

So I think we create our own social environment, stress, sex or lack of, empowerment or lack of. And it is not a blame thing. Not like, "It is all my fault because I created these conditions". It is just what we are given to work with in life. I really think understanding what we are given and how our output to the external world results in the input we receive from the external world, is incredibly important. 

Intentionally changing our external world results, imo, in higher t. Making it subject to our initiative as opposed to being subject to the initiative of others. HAVING that initiative period, taking it, comes from testosterone. So it is a cycle and works in reverse also. 

Hope I making sense lol.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

ohno said:


> Oh most definitely. The interesting thing to me is that our biochemistry is determined through childhood and puberty through both pure internal biology and environmental factors over a long period of time (conditioning). So as adults, our system is pretty much in place and kind of determines our interface with the outside world and what we put out there. Which in turn of course has the result of input that usually continues the basic pattern of our system.
> 
> So I think we create our own social environment, stress, sex or lack of, empowerment or lack of. And it is not a blame thing. Not like, "It is all my fault because I created these conditions". It is just what we are given to work with in life. I really think understanding what we are given and how our output to the external world results in the input we receive from the external world, is incredibly important.
> 
> ...


I knew for a fact, that a more feminine relationship partner who isn't resisting my male ways as much, seems to help my state of mind and motivation. Also having sex, it seems the sex drive will increase to quite a bit if you are having frequent sex.

If you are having infrequent sex, over time on many of us the sex drive can be dragged down. 

I believe a significant part of this was testosterone.


----------



## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

As men get older the body's testosterone production capacity slows.
But ,Testosterone levels can also be decreased by lifestyle changes such as a bad diet , living a sedentary lifestyle , being in a stressful marriage or personal relationship , gaining extra fat and having a stressful thankless job.

However , the good news is that it can also be increased by having regular vigorous resistance training exercises, eating a proper diet rich in healthy fats [ medium chain triglycerides ] , and having healthy , uplifting relationships.
Men should avoid soy products at all costs because they increase estrogen levels.
Testosterone levels CAN be manipulated, but can also be 
negatively affected by a number of external factors.

How to Increase Your Testosterone | The Art of Manliness

Basically it's all in the way you live.


----------



## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> As men get older the body's testosterone production capacity slows.
> But ,Testosterone levels can also be decreased by lifestyle changes such as a bad diet , living a sedentary lifestyle , being in a stressful marriage or personal relationship , gaining extra fat and having a stressful thankless job.
> 
> However , the good news is that it can also be increased by having regular vigorous resistance training exercises, eating a proper diet rich in healthy fats [ medium chain triglycerides ] , and having healthy , uplifting relationships.
> ...


Really?? I didn't know that. I use some soy stuff (not a lot). Maybe it's cancel out by him working out a lot? I don't know how we would know anyway.


----------



## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

committed4ever said:


> Really?? I didn't know that. I use some soy stuff (not a lot). Maybe it's cancel out by him working out a lot? I don't know how we would know anyway.


Yup.

Soy's Negative Effects | Men's Health

A little will not do much harm , but a diet based on soy as a main source of protein , though not life threatening, is male hormone threatening.


----------



## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> However , the good news is that it can also be increased by having regular vigorous resistance training exercises,
> 
> Basically it's all in the way you live.


Good post. I'm guessing my T level is still pretty high after 20+ years of marriage, so one size doesn't fit all. After a good lifting session, I feel like I could run through a wall...and my s*x drive goes through the roof.


----------



## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

The article makes total sense to me. A single man needs higher testosterone to attract a mate, and lower testosterone to be a good mate and father. Striking a balance is in there somewhere...


----------



## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

thunderstruck said:


> Good post. I'm guessing my T level is still pretty high after 20+ years of marriage, so one size doesn't fit all. After a good lifting session, I feel like I could run through a wall...and my s*x drive goes through the roof.



My wife now tell me that on Sunday nights my erections are much harder, she thinks it's " something I'm taking " lol.
No.
Sunday is my deadlifting day at the gym . Heavy deadlifts gives me energy and my sex drive is crazy.
Been married 18 years.


----------



## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> Yup.
> 
> Soy's Negative Effects | Men's Health
> 
> A little will not do much harm , but a diet based on soy as a main source of protein , though not life threatening, is male hormone threatening.


By Allah, this is the first time I heard about this. I consume lots of soy products, it's a mainstay on our people's diet, especially the soya sauce. Gotta dig deeper. Thank you brother CM!


----------



## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Well my pituitary sure didn't get this memo. 

Not to say that I didn't get into daddy mode. Quite to the contrary, all around me talk about how much I relish the hole of daddy. But it never turned off my drive. 

It could be Deejo's explanation though. If I already had a nuts testosterone level, a slight drop isn't noticeable.


----------



## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

john_lord_b3 said:


> By Allah, this is the first time I heard about this. I consume lots of soy products, it's a mainstay on our people's diet, especially the soya sauce. Gotta dig deeper. Thank you brother CM!


This is one site I found more info on the subject of soy and testosterone. Each article I found there said that, essentially, the jury is still out. Each that I found was dated no later than 2011 (two years after the article posted above by CM). I'm not trying to say there is no correlation between the two, but that I would see what most recent studies say before fully cutting it out, if you plan to do so. 

THis is the article I found, first, on the subject: Can Soy Protein Hurt Testosterone In Men? | LIVESTRONG.COM

Other articles are listed on the side of the page.


----------



## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> This is one site I found more info on the subject of soy and testosterone. Each article I found there said that, essentially, the jury is still out. Each that I found was dated no later than 2011 (two years after the article posted above by CM). I'm not trying to say there is no correlation between the two, but that I would see what most recent studies say before fully cutting it out, if you plan to do so.
> 
> THis is the article I found, first, on the subject: Can Soy Protein Hurt Testosterone In Men? | LIVESTRONG.COM
> 
> Other articles are listed on the side of the page.


There are lots of conflicting expert opinions on soy.

Experts advise perimenopausal women to consume lots of soy. They say it helps to regulate their hormones.
Soy for Menopause Symptoms-Topic Overview

However another body of experts say it does absolutely nothing for women's hormones.
Soy no good for menopausal hot flashes, bone loss: Study - HealthPop - CBS News

But I prefer to err on the side of caution. Soy is high in isoflavones. Isoflavones are a type of phytoestrogen. Phytoestrogens are chemicals found in plants that work like estrogens. In some ways, the human body can use them like estrogen.
Testosterone = Male Hormone
Estrogen = Female Hormone


----------



## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

committed4ever said:


> Really?? I didn't know that. I use some soy stuff (not a lot). Maybe it's cancel out by him working out a lot? I don't know how we would know anyway.


Yes. Hops is another offender. The Germans noticed in the 1800's that young girls who worked in the fields picking hops got their first period about a year earlier than normal.


----------



## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> There are lots of conflicting expert opinions on soy.
> 
> Experts advise perimenopausal women to consume lots of soy. They say it helps to regulate their hormones.
> Soy for Menopause Symptoms-Topic Overview
> ...


You are absolutely correct. There is a lot of conflicting information... which is why I look at when something has been written/posted, before using it as a reference. I realize that the article I posted (specifically) was posted a few months before the one you posted from CBS, however there are multiple articles posted since then, even as recently as a couple weeks ago, regarding the subject. But, each of the articles say "talk to your doctor"...even the WebMD page says the same thing... to not take their word as absolute authority.



Caribbean Man said:


> But I prefer to err on the side of caution. Soy is high in isoflavones. Isoflavones are a type of phytoestrogen. Phytoestrogens are chemicals found in plants that work like estrogens. In some ways, the human body can use them like estrogen.


I can respect that position. I do, however, know more meat eaters who have the problems related to low testosterone and/or high estrogen. More than the vegetarians I know. And this even includes those who have eaten soy as their "primary" source of protein. But, really, it's a matter of moderation, as with anything else. 



Caribbean Man said:


> Testosterone = Male Hormone
> Estrogen = Female Hormone


:scratchhead:Still scratching my head about why this clarification was needed. I thought we all knew the difference between the two but.... thanks?


----------



## camillaj (Aug 3, 2013)

I have heard too about soy's negative effects on male hormone(s). I've also heard many worried guys who go to gym regularly talk about it. If I were a guy I would stick to trusted and tested proteins like eggs, chicken, fish, cottage cheese, low fat quark, a steak now and then...



Maricha75 said:


> :scratchhead:Still scratching my head about why this clarification was needed. I thought we all knew the difference between the two but.... thanks?


TAM makes me scratch my head too. We could scratch heads together.


----------



## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

camillaj said:


> I have heard too about soy's negative effects on male hormone(s). I've also heard many worried guys who go to gym regularly talk about it. If I were a guy I would stick to trusted and tested proteins like eggs, chicken, fish, cottage cheese, low fat quark, a steak now and then...


Sorry, but chicken, fish, steak, etc don't work for vegetarians. There are other protein options for vegetarians, besides soy, though.


----------



## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Maricha75 said:


> Sorry, but chicken, fish, steak, etc don't work for vegetarians. There are other protein options for vegetarians, besides soy, though.



Chicken Parmesan isn't vegan?


----------



## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Deejo said:


> Chicken Parmesan isn't vegan?


Nope. Not vegan, nor vegetarian. 
Funny though.


----------



## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

john_lord_b3 said:


> By Allah, this is the first time I heard about this. I consume lots of soy products, it's a mainstay on our people's diet, especially the soya sauce. Gotta dig deeper. Thank you brother CM!


Soy is international , almost everyone use it.
I still use soy sauce , because I love how it enhances the taste of food especially Asian foods.

There is a lot of debate on whether or not it's good for men.
I choose not to use much of it , and use other alternatives.


----------



## camillaj (Aug 3, 2013)

Maricha75 said:


> Sorry, but chicken, fish, steak, etc don't work for vegetarians. There are other protein options for vegetarians, besides soy, though.


No need to be sorry. Are you a vegetarian? My girlfriend is but not strict. She eats white meat.


----------



## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

camillaj said:


> No need to be sorry. Are you a vegetarian? My girlfriend is but not strict. She eats white meat.


Oh please tell me that was a joke, playing on what Deejo posted??


Yes, we are vegetarian. Not to be confused with vegan, of course. We still consume milk, cheese, eggs, etc. No fish, no pork, no chicken, no beef, no shellfish, etc. We also eat quinoa. Yes, we do have some soy in our diet, but it is not the main protein product. I'd say once, MAYBE twice, each month, if that, we have something with tofu or some other soy based food.


----------



## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Maricha75 said:


> Oh please tell me that was a joke, playing on what Deejo posted??


If you hang out among East Indians, you find it isn't for some cultures. Many East Indians consider themselves vegetarian even if they do eat fish and chicken.


----------



## camillaj (Aug 3, 2013)

Maricha75 said:


> Oh please tell me that was a joke, playing on what Deejo posted??
> 
> 
> Yes, we are vegetarian. Not to be confused with vegan, of course. We still consume milk, cheese, eggs, etc. No fish, no pork, no chicken, no beef, no shellfish, etc. We also eat quinoa. Yes, we do have some soy in our diet, but it is not the main protein product. I'd say once, MAYBE twice, each month, if that, we have something with tofu or some other soy based food.


Which one? I assume you mean the white meat part. I guess the right word to call her is half-vegetarian or something. Her diet is like vegetarian's plus she likes to eat fish... 

Ok, that came out sounding a little naughty.


----------



## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

camillaj said:


> Her diet is like vegetarian's plus she likes to eat fish...
> 
> Ok, that came out sounding a little naughty.


Pescetarian? I'm inclined towards Pastafarianism, myself.


----------



## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Married but Happy said:


> *Pescetarian? *I'm inclined towards Pastafarianism, myself.


Yes, that would be the term if the only type of meat she eats is fish. 


As for what Larry posted about those who eat chicken and fish still considering themselves vegetarians... boggles the mind. Not sure how animal consumption, in any amount = vegetarian. :scratchhead:


----------



## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

Well I dunno, I am married and according to my quack I have a high testosterone level for my age. I don't think getting married is the magic bullet, I think it is more likely that men become more domesticated and lethargic as they marry and get older.

Look after yourself and exercise to bring your activity level up to that of a young man and you're good to go. (In general, there are always exceptions.)


----------



## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Maybe that have lower T than some unmarried men. But it's just enough T to deal with family life and marriage.


----------



## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

For 17 years, my wife and had very little sex. Maybe 2-3 times a month. 

Then,

I started to work out and sex jumped up to 3 time a week.Recently, just for fun (for me) we had sex a dozed times in 2 weeks.I could have done more. That was enough for my wife. After that, I was celibate for a month.. 

My libido seemed to go into hibernation. I stopped waking up/ with erections and everything. Then we had sex the other night after a month...It actually worked.

I know my libido seems to match my wife's. The more regular sex I have, the better it seems to work and the more I seem to want. That just doesn't compute for my wife.

I believe having mutually satisfying sex increases T levels. It drop or libido drops because desire drops. So when a man starts to cheat, T- levels increase or his libido increases. Just my guess.

So single people regularly change partners, so desire is always at an all time high as well as T levels. As long as they're having sex.

I do know that weightlifting and exercising increases my libido. I did stop weightlifting and my libido dropped. I don't know if it was because I wasn't having sex or I stopped working out.

I know T-levels is different than libido. I think its the same. 

By medically increasing T levels doesn't always increase a mans libido. I think it's more complicated than that.


----------

