# Lets see if other people find this disgusting as I do



## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

Im not sure i can explain this exactly because its a lot about the way one feels about it but its about some girl who asked me about how many other girls i had and i gave her a clear cut answer x, now she gives me another answer and gave me a number that was smaller than mine but then she follows up with: there were some boys i have been naked with... and no further explanation.

I think this is well disgusting and unfair. Its not the sheer number that bothers me or what happened its more like the way of thinking like its a game, i mean maybe I cannot put the finger exactly where the problem lies but i was disgusted.

Im sticking to my guns here, im not looking for other opinions to change my mind i just want to see if its majority or minority that thinks like I do!


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## Married in VA (Jan 6, 2012)

Not sure of your complaint here. Are you upset because she has such a high "number" or are you upset at what she may have done with these "boys"?


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

We were together for some months not now though. And what I am talking about here was one of the reasons of the separation


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

So long as she wasn't cheating on you or someone else, then what she chooses to do with her body is her own business.


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

Married in VA said:


> Not sure of your complaint here. Are you upset because she has such a high "number" or are you upset at what she may have done with these "boys"?


I can't put my finger to it either (complaint) but it was like it was a game to her oral sex=no big deal


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> So long as she wasn't cheating on you or someone else, then what she chooses to do with her body is her own business.


Haha......heres the rub! For all i knew if i stayed with her longer she could decide at some point that "that guy is cute" and go somewhere and blow him and chalk it out to "no biggie" its not like she said so but i had a feeling that if i stayed with her for years i was in line for smth similar!


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

FrenchFry said:


> Or she didn't place such a premium on oral sex (being naked?) when she was single.


Isn't it common sense that one (boy or girl) should not start anything sexual with anybody else unless they're more or less sure that there is going to be smth more to it. I mean maybe not all the way to marriage but still... something...not just ok, we got naked that was nice, CU around!


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Jack29 said:


> Isn't it common sense that one (boy or girl) should not start anything sexual with anybody else unless they're more or less sure that there is going to be smth more to it. I mean maybe not all the way to marriage but still... something...not just ok, we got naked that was nice, CU around!


For all you know, she _did_ think more would come of them. Men can be just as manipulative as women, and men can use sex to "build" intimacy, and then drop the girl, same as women can use sex to catch a man and then shut him out of the bedroom. 

And a woman's sexual past doesn't mean she's inclined to cheating, whether oral sex or not. You assume far too much off of "feelings". Feelings lead us astray quite often.


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

FrenchFry said:


> Some people think differently than you do and like to have sex for other reasons, including fun. Men and women.
> 
> If this doesn't align with how you want to live your life, it's good that you didn't stay involved with her. However, I don't generally put the label of "disgusting" on a person if they don't share the same outlook on a subject as I do.
> 
> ...


No I don't dig at all. Either with a pick or a shovel!

I am not however in a position to judge you nor will I do so. But If i were to date you i would be gnawed by doubts of the type:

How am I not sure she wouldn't do it again, or how am I not sure she didnt do more than make out or what if she comes accross one of those boys she made out and than decides she has unfinished business with the guy!


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Doesn't matter now.... but ya, if you find anything "disgusting" about a partner or prospective partner....then let them go. There is no room in a loving relationship for "disgusting".


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Don't really see why it's disgusting but each to their own.


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> For all you know, she _did_ think more would come of them. Men can be just as manipulative as women, and men can use sex to "build" intimacy, and then drop the girl, same as women can use sex to catch a man and then shut him out of the bedroom.
> 
> And a woman's sexual past doesn't mean she's inclined to cheating, whether oral sex or not. You assume far too much off of "feelings". Feelings lead us astray quite often.


Of course men are as manipulative as women, i don't doubt that, but thats none of my concern im only focused on women myself! As about to sexual past, everybody draws his own conclusions!


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Jack29 said:


> Of course men are as manipulative as women, i don't doubt that, but thats none of my concern im only focused on women myself! As about to sexual past, everybody draws his own conclusions!


If you really can't get past yourself enough to learn how to trust a girl, then you're better off not dating. It's not like temptations go away after you say your vows. Even if you married a virgin, there will come times when life, other people and circumstances will point to all the things _they_ see wrong about your spouse. I can't tell you how many times I've had people tell me that I'm going to cheat(as if I'd be forced into it against my will). I've had people, usually women who don't trust men, tell me not to trust my husband, that all men are scum, blah blah blah. And it can be difficult to ignore when so many people around you seem to have gone through the same unfortunate circumstances. 

But _you_ have to choose whether or not you will trust your spouse. Even a woman with no sexual experience prior to you isn't perfect. If this woman's life is an issue then it's good you're not together.


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## Soccerfan73 (Jul 30, 2011)

I wouldn't find it disgusting, honestly. 

What she did before really isn't much of my business, IMO.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

I imagine if that disgusted you, you have no reason to talk to me. I'm pretty sure my numbers would be off the scale, but then, that's never been an issue for men I've dated.

Fortunately for you both, there are other men and women who would not feel uncomfortable with your stance or her experiences.


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> If you really can't get past yourself enough to learn how to trust a girl, then you're better off not dating. It's not like temptations go away after you say your vows. Even if you married a virgin, there will come times when life, other people and circumstances will point to all the things _they_ see wrong about your spouse. I can't tell you how many times I've had people tell me that I'm going to cheat(as if I'd be forced into it against my will). I've had people, usually women who don't trust men, tell me not to trust my husband, that all men are scum, blah blah blah. And it can be difficult to ignore when so many people around you seem to have gone through the same unfortunate circumstances.
> 
> But _you_ have to choose whether or not you will trust your spouse. Even a woman with no sexual experience prior to you isn't perfect. If this woman's life is an issue then it's good you're not together.


Im no virgin myself nor is virginity very much sought after when im considering things about someone! But neither do i accept that a girl starts making out with a guy on a whim or like French Fry writes above, she had her mind made up to drop into a party and making up with a guy.

Sex oral or otherwise is important (and yes making out too) and I will stick to my guns that one should think it twice and more before starting this kind of thing (and maybe wait for a day or two at least before she decides to start anything at all)!

It usually is girls who do it of course because its more difficult that a guy drops into a party and has his pick with a girl to start making out with!


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## Twofaces (Dec 5, 2011)

Ummmm, whaaaat? Its usually girls who do it?????? So, who are they making out with? Themselves? Other girls? Takes 2 to tango partner. 

Im just going to go ahead and go out on a limb here and say you have some issues with women. Perhaps counseling would help.

And last, im really not even sure why you started this thread about a Girl you dated months ago........

Well, Have a Merry Christmas.


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

Twofaces said:


> Ummmm, whaaaat? Its usually girls who do it?????? So, who are they making out with? Themselves? Other girls? Takes 2 to tango partner.
> 
> Im just going to go ahead and go out on a limb here and say you have some issues with women. Perhaps counseling would help.
> 
> ...


Ok you're right about that, what i mean to say is girls who are planning to start it at all, guys is more like they were there, a chick whats to kiss them and maybe more, why not!

This thread is not about a chick i dated is about if a chick i might date in the future tells me that i probably walk out right away rather than staying for some time and than send her packing on account of issue in question!


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## Twofaces (Dec 5, 2011)

Ok, but im still not sure what the issue in question is......

Are you saying that if a girl has made out with a random dude at a party a few times in collefe, thats shes a **** and will always be one and that you would never date a girl like that?

Im just not sure what your question is here....

Also, may i ask your age?


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

Twofaces said:


> Ok, but im still not sure what the issue in question is......
> 
> Are you saying that if a girl has made out with a random dude at a party a few times in collefe, thats shes a **** and will always be one and that you would never date a girl like that?
> 
> ...


Age 29

If you would have cared to read the first post you maybe you wouldn't have so many questions. Im saying more or less what you're saying that if a girls goes somewhere with a mind made up to start making out (or in the case of the girl i knew have oral sex), well im not saying she is a **** but i will say its not OK by me!

I mean for god's sake she barely knew the guys she only talked to them once or twice thats not enough for a bj is it?


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## Twofaces (Dec 5, 2011)

Jack,

I recommend that you seek counseling. 

Best wishes to you.


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

FrenchFry said:


> Why yes, I am quite whimsical.
> 
> Also, I have zero reason to lie on a forum. It's not like I made out with *you* (unless I did! Where do you live and what do you look like?) I made out for fun. I was young, wasn't looking for sex or a relationship but I found people attractive enough to kiss. Some of them I remember quite well, some I don't remember at all! However, none are a threat to me or my marriage because it's was a) done while I was single and b) was done with the intention of fun *which both parties clearly understood*
> 
> ...


Its things like that that drive me right up the wall and they used to drive me even more when i was with her. Making out and oral sex is not fun. Playing football is fun, playing SPS is fun, i will even go to the extent to agree that playing chess is fun, or even solving mathematical problems for some people, but making out and taking somebodys d***k in your mouth!

PS. You just asked a stranger on some internet thread where he lives and what he looks like. Your husband is not going to like it and it verifies my suspicions that your type of girl is not to be trusted! Im mentioning it because to some point it proves my point that your type of girl is not to be trusted!


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

FrenchFry said:


> You aren't the BJ police, are you?


Ok thats really hilarious and made me laugh so hard spit flew from mouth!


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

FrenchFry said:


> For the record, without being snarky what I'm trying to get across to you is:
> 
> It's cool if you found a moral/ethical/personality conflict with this woman you were dating. It happens, it's why dating was invented.
> 
> However, trying to extrapolate your own personal stance into "SHE GAVE OTHER DUDES CASUAL BJS!! WOMEN WHO DO THIS ARE DISGUSTING!!!" is woman-policing. If you aren't dating her and don't desire to continue to date her, who and what she does with her body is none of your buisiness and trying to shame her online and otherwise is pointless.


Other people here on TAM are talking about what they like/dislike about there women, why should i talk about it? Im not trying to stop anything, even the girl I was with i just told her i was not Ok with that and she was starting to tell me things like it was in the past not anymore without me asking her to stop anything!


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Does that mean that you've never had a BJ? Because it would have had to be a disgusting casual one, as opposed to a FORMAL one?


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Dude, find a woman who you are compatible with. Nothing more difficult than this. Be a quality man and you will have a good selection of quality women to choose from. You get to decide what quality is.
This woman is not compatible with you. Nothing else matters.

It seems folks like to debate this topic for some reason. Agendas galore from all directions. I would bet that some threads are even started with this theme just to keep it going.

Realize you will even be told by some that a woman has a right to share her body even after marriage as well.

Merry Christmas.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

SunnyT said:


> Does that mean that you've never had a BJ? Because it would have had to be a disgusting casual one, as opposed to a FORMAL one?


:lol: A formal bj.


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## Twofaces (Dec 5, 2011)

Whats an MMORPG?????


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

Jack29 said:


> Isn't it common sense that one (boy or girl) should not start anything sexual with anybody else unless they're more or less sure that there is going to be smth more to it. I mean maybe not all the way to marriage but still... something...not just ok, we got naked that was nice, CU around!


not really no


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Twofaces said:


> Whats an MMORPG?????


MMO = massively multiplayer online role-playing game.... aka games like World of Warcraft.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Twofaces said:


> Whats an MMORPG?????


Her point and she will correct me if I get it wrong is that you can choose anything at all to not like about someone.

So she does not like guys in the online gaming stuff. Frankly that is a good choice for most wives IMO.

I can not like a woman because she wears too much blue.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Jack29 said:


> Making out and oral sex is not fun. ...making out and taking somebodys d***k in your mouth!


Wait, BJs and kissing aren't fun? Dude...you're doing it wrong.



Jack29 said:


> Your husband is not going to like it and it verifies my suspicions that your type of girl is not to be trusted! Im mentioning it because to some point it proves my point that your type of girl is not to be trusted!


And what exactly is her "type of girl"? Someone who enjoys sex?Someone who likes to please her husband? Someone who likes when her husband pleases her? Damn, man, I'm not to be trusted either. I like kissing. I like giving BJs. I like sex, period. All of which, my husband is VERY happy to know.

As others have said... you are no longer seeing this girl, so what difference does it make what she did or did not do before you? Hey, I had crushes on a lot of boys in school. Does this mean I cannot be trusted? Does this mean I have "unfinished business" with them? Hell no! Most of them, I can't even remember anymore. 

For someone who isn't a virgin, didn't wait to have sex before marrying a girl, you put an AWFUL lot of thought into having a problem with women who have made out/kissed a lot of men or even gave/received oral sex. Did she ever claim to be a virgin? No? Then I fail to see the problem.

I also suggest you seek counseling for this. Perhaps then you will learn exactly why you feel the way you do about it.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

FrenchFry said:


> Massively Multiplayer Online Role-playing Game
> 
> Had a World of Warcraft addicted "boyfriend."
> 
> And yes, that is my point, TY entropy.


LOL my husband and I were WoW players as well, until recently (within the last year).


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

I see that most people don't see it my way, thats ok i was prepared for it.

Never played online games, yes received BJ and gave orals but usually i've had a 3 weeks time frame before starting sexual. I've had had sex with 2 girls the second time we have met and both times didn't last very long. 

Merry Christmas everybody and i won't go counseling just yet!


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## Twofaces (Dec 5, 2011)

Jack29 said:


> II've had had sex with 2 girls the second time we have met and both times didn't last






Pot, meet kettle.........:bounce::lol:


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Jack29 said:


> I see that most people don't see it my way, thats ok i was prepared for it.
> 
> Never played online games, yes received BJ and gave orals but usually i've had a 3 weeks time frame before starting sexual. I've had had sex with 2 girls the second time we have met and both times didn't last very long.
> 
> Merry Christmas everybody and i won't go counseling just yet!


Wait, just so we understand this... are you saying that you have only had sex with two girls? Or are you saying that you, essentially, had sex on the second date with two of the girls you dated? If it's the latter... I'm sorry, but that's a bit hypocritical. You expect a woman to not enjoy participating in these activities and yet YOU are free to do them? Really?


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Twofaces said:


> Pot, meet kettle.........:bounce::lol:


SWEEEET! That is one of my favorite phrases! LMAO! I say it to my sister a lot.


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> Wait, just so we understand this... are you saying that you have only had sex with two girls? Or are you saying that you, essentially, had sex on the second date with two of the girls you dated? If it's the latter... I'm sorry, but that's a bit hypocritical. You expect a woman to not enjoy participating in these activities and yet YOU are free to do them? Really?


Ive had sex with more girls but it has happened twice (last year and this year) that i was invited into a girls room (i mean first we met and second time we met they told me i could sleep over) and in my books thats an offer i can't refuse!

That is hypocritical. I will have sex with a girl if she asks me to but i will not take her seriously!


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## Twofaces (Dec 5, 2011)

Invited into a girls room? Somehow i get the feeling you are NOT 29 years of age.

Call me crazy but.........


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

Twofaces said:


> Invited into a girls room? Somehow i get the feeling you are NOT 29 years of age.
> 
> Call me crazy but.........


Yep, once was a girl who i met at some friends dinner she friended me on FB than asked me i liked to go clubbing, i liked to, we made out and than took a taxi to her place. 2nd a girl i met at... well friends party she asked me if i liked to to drop into her room some time because she enjoyed conversation first time round and i liked! and im 29 but was 28 and 27 when events happened

And for the record one of them dumped me a week afterwards because she already had boyfriend and i did not knew she was cheating, she told me they were over! And 2nd time i dumped girl because i was really falling for her but she made me uncomfortable with many male friends she had and given her past history i wasn't liking the outcome!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Jack29 said:


> I can't put my finger to it either (complaint) but it was like it was a game to her oral sex=no big deal


I'm confused. In your first post you said she gave you a number and then said that there were come guys she was naked with.

You said nothing about oral sex. Please clear up why you seem to assume she thinks oral sex is nothing.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

So in your eyes are you then disgusting? 
Or is it only disgusting if you don't have sex?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Jack29 said:


> ....
> It usually is girls who do it of course because its more difficult that a guy drops into a party and has his pick with a girl to start making out with!


Who do you think that girl is making out with? Some guy. So obviously the guys are doing it as well.


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> I'm confused. In your first post you said she gave you a number and then said that there were come guys she was naked with.
> 
> You said nothing about oral sex. Please clear up why you seem to assume she thinks oral sex is nothing.


Ok, we were talking about number of previous relationships we had and for me being in a relationship and having a girlfriend and having sex is more or less the same thing. And than she gave me the number of her boyfriends and i thought ok that is that, she had had sex with that number of people.

Than she dropped the bomb that i found completely unexpected that she had been naked with some boys but that is that, they were not boyfriends to her, just guys she met and got naked with. I am assuming oral sex maybe she did not have it but i believe she did.

What bugs me isn't if she had oral sex or any sex but she knew beforehand she was not going to date the guys just BJ them and probably not see them again. Thats what if find disgusting!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

abitlost said:


> :lol: A formal bj.


Does it require a tux?


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

abitlost said:


> So in your eyes are you then disgusting?
> Or is it only disgusting if you don't have sex?


No disgusting is the thought that if im dating a girl and i might end up marrying her i don't like it that in her past she used to go places and pick some guy on a whim and start BJ and knowing beforehand that she would not date the guy, just blow him!


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

So... if she intended to have a real relationship with all of them, that would be ok with you?

And "get naked with boys"... dude, did she say there was sex of any kind or what? If she had sex, whether oral or PIV or anything else, just say "she had sex" with these guys. "Getting naked" is something my 11 year old would say.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Jack29 said:


> I see that most people don't see it my way, thats ok i was prepared for it.
> 
> Never played online games, yes received BJ and gave orals but usually i've had a 3 weeks time frame before starting sexual. I've had had sex with 2 girls the second time we have met and both times didn't last very long.
> 
> Merry Christmas everybody and i won't go counseling just yet!


YOu had sex with 2 girls the second time you met with them? That's pretty casual. Why is it ok for you to have casual sex but not ok for a woman to have it?


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Does it require a tux?


maybe a cordial invitation


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Jack29 said:


> No disgusting is the thought that if im dating a girl and i might end up marrying her i don't like it that in her past she used to go places and pick some guy on a whim and start BJ and knowing beforehand that she would not date the guy, just blow him!


Because OBVIOUSLY, she has unfinished business with him.


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## Twofaces (Dec 5, 2011)

Im bowing out of this thread. This "boy" cant be for real. Not wasting my time.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Jack29 said:


> Ok, we were talking about number of previous relationships we had and for me being in a relationship and having a girlfriend and having sex is more or less the same thing. And than she gave me the number of her boyfriends and i thought ok that is that, she had had sex with that number of people.
> 
> Than she dropped the bomb that i found completely unexpected that she had been naked with some boys but that is that, they were not boyfriends to her, just guys she met and got naked with. I am assuming oral sex maybe she did not have it but i believe she did.
> 
> What bugs me isn't if she had oral sex or any sex but she knew beforehand she was not going to date the guys just BJ them and probably not see them again. Thats what if find disgusting!


So she did not tell you that she gave them bj's, you assume she did.

Did you know that no one has to get naked for bj's????? So being naked does not automatically mean she gave bj's. 

Maybe they just sat around naked, who knows. Why are you making stuff up about her? That's pretty sad.


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> So... if she intended to have a real relationship with all of them, that would be ok with you?
> 
> And "get naked with boys"... dude, did she say there was sex of any kind or what? If she had sex, whether oral or PIV or anything else, just say "she had sex" with these guys. "Getting naked" is something my 11 year old would say.


If she intended to have relationship with them it would have been OK by me but for that to have happened it would mean she knew them a lot more than just dropping into a party and start making out with them and than having oral sex

I don't know either what "being naked with a boy" meant in her books. I did not ask her because 1 i knew id probably be pissed if i kept the conversation on and 2. by that time i said myself, ok thats it, im dumping her sooner or later so whats the point!


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> So she did not tell you that she gave them bj's, you assume she did.
> 
> Did you know that no one has to get naked for bj's????? So being naked does not automatically mean she gave bj's.
> 
> Maybe they just sat around naked, who knows. Why are you making stuff up about her? That's pretty sad.


Im not making any of this up. What she said verbatim was: yes i have had this x number of boyfriends but i've been naked with y boys. And i mean verbatim!

And that was the first time we talked about it. The second time we talked about it was when i was dumping her and because i was already pissed i just mentioned it but not discussed it!


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Could have just fumbled around.
Maybe she didn't take them seriously.


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

She would talk a lot about how good she was of telling (i mean guessing) the size of a boys penis judging by his height and race and it could have been that she was curious to see their organ. This is my guess, i told or rather accused her of that too but she did not answer back


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Jack29 said:


> Im not making any of this up. What she said verbatim was: yes i have had this x number of boyfriends but i've been naked with y boys. And i mean verbatim!
> 
> And that was the first time we talked about it. The second time we talked about it was when i was dumping her and because i was already pissed i just mentioned it but not discussed it!


YOu are making up that she gave bj's to the ones she said she was just naked with.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Jack29 said:


> If she intended to have relationship with them it would have been OK by me but for that to have happened it would mean she knew them a lot more than just dropping into a party and start making out with them and than having oral sex
> 
> I don't know either what "being naked with a boy" meant in her books. I did not ask her because 1 i knew id probably be pissed if i kept the conversation on and 2. by that time i said myself, ok thats it, im dumping her sooner or later so whats the point!


Wait, wait!! :rofl:
Rather than ASK her what she meant... you take it upon yourself to believe the worst about her, to the point of getting PISSED OFF at her. And, to make matters worse, you think she is DISGUSTING because she may, or MAY NOT have done something you don't approve of... 

Ok, I'm more inclined to believe she broke up with you because you couldn't handle her "number"...and now, you are saying anything and everything to make yourself look better.


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> YOu are making up that she gave bj's to the ones she said she was just naked with.


No i am assuming it! She told me that its not called sex unless there is penetration of penis in vagina and i think thats how she wanted to get away with saying that i only had had sex with my boyfriends the other guys i did not have sex with, just been naked. I disagree of course!


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

I don't blame her for not answering. Someone getting pissed off about someones past when they were single and accusing rather than talking wouldn't be worth answering imo.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Jack29 said:


> *No i am assuming it! *She told me that its not called sex unless there is penetration of penis in vagina and i think thats how she wanted to get away with saying that i only had had sex with my boyfriends the other guys i did not have sex with, just been naked. I disagree of course!


AND THAT RIGHT THERE IS THE PROBLEM! You are *ASSUMING* she did those things. She never came out and SAID she did. She could have been skinny dipping with them for all you know. LMAO!!


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> Wait, wait!! :rofl:
> Ok, I'm more inclined to believe she broke up with you because you couldn't handle her "number"...and now, you are saying anything and everything to make yourself look better.


If she were the one to dump me there is no shame in that. I don't care how bad or good I look in some anonymous internet forum!


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## Twofaces (Dec 5, 2011)

:slap:

:crazy:


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Jack29 said:


> No i am assuming it! She told me that its not called sex unless there is penetration of penis in vagina and i think thats how she wanted to get away with saying that i only had had sex with my boyfriends the other guys i did not have sex with, just been naked. I disagree of course!


You are still assuming that she gave them bj's because she was naked with them. She did not say she gave them bj's.


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> AND THAT RIGHT THERE IS THE PROBLEM! You are *ASSUMING* she did those things. She never came out and SAID she did. She could have been skinny dipping with them for all you know. LMAO!!


whats the difference anyway, she did smth very intimate with people she well aware wasn't going to see again!


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Jack29 said:


> whats the difference anyway, she did smth very intimate with people she well aware wasn't going to see again!


You've never gone swimming in a lake or swimming pool, naked? I suppose next, you're gonna say that my parents were horrible for letting us go swimming topless when we were little girls, right?


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

OR!!! Here's the real kicker... KNOWING how you would react, she could have said that JUST to f*ck with your head! :rofl: :rofl:


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Jack,

You can set whatever values you want for the women you go out with and certainly for any woman you marry.

But when you jump in the sack with someone the second time you meet them, that's casual sex. To come down on a woman for doing the same thing is hypocritical.

It seems that if you will judge a women by her past, it would be only fair for you to tell her before you have sex with her that you don't want to have a serious relationship with any woman who has done certain things in the past.

1) She has to have had no more than x sex partners in the past.

2) She has to have not given any bj's to guys she had not known and gone out on x number of dates with...
3) the rest of your list.

If you wait until after you have had sex with a woman to discuss then, then you are not being honest and using them for sex. You are leading them on that you are serious about them when in fact you will not know if you can get serious about them until they confess their past to you and you make judgement upon their past. Any woman you sleep with should know this up front.


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> You've never gone swimming in a lake or swimming pool, naked? I suppose next, you're gonna say that my parents were horrible for letting us go swimming topless when we were little girls, right?


She used to do this thing at parties or at some friends home (or so she told me) it wasn't skinny dipping!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Jack29 said:


> whats the difference anyway, she did smth very intimate with people she well aware wasn't going to see again!


There is a HUGE difference between being naked with someone and giving them a bj.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> OR!!! Here's the real kicker... KNOWING how you would react, she could have said that JUST to f*ck with your head! :rofl: :rofl:


sounds like something I would do lol


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## Twofaces (Dec 5, 2011)

And here o thoight i was going to be bored all alone on xmas eve

Jack, thanks buddy!!!!

Cheers!


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Jack,
> 
> You can set whatever values you want for the women you go out with and certainly for any woman you marry.
> 
> ...


I will accept that i was hypocritical.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Jack29 said:


> I will accept that i was hypocritical.


Jack,

So you are not going to tell the women upfront that you will throw them away if they do not meet your standards? That's not fair to them at all.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Jack29 said:


> She used to do this thing at parties or at some friends home (or so she told me) it wasn't skinny dipping!


Never heard of pool parties? :scratchhead:

My point is that you didn't ASK her, you made an assumption because you didn't like what she DID say, so you got pissy. And now, you seem to think it's wrong for a woman to do that and not for a man... and that women who have had casual sexual encounters are not worthy of being in long term relationships or being married. You have insulted quite a few women on this forum with just that attitude, because THEY have had casual sexual encounters...some have had quite a few! And yet, they are COMPLETELY loyal to their husbands. And there are some who have had very few partners of any kind, and they have cheated on their husbands. So which do you find more disgusting? A woman who has had many PAST partners, never cheated, and is loyal to her spouse? Or one who had only a could of long term relationships and cheated on her husband?


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Jack,
> 
> So you are not going to tell the women upfront that you will throw them away if they do not meet your standards? That's not fair to them at all.


I just hope next woman i come across has not had one night stands or casual sex just normal boyfriends and there won't be any need for the whole thing!


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> Never heard of pool parties? :scratchhead:
> 
> My point is that you didn't ASK her, you made an assumption because you didn't like what she DID say, so you got pissy. And now, you seem to think it's wrong for a woman to do that and not for a man... and that women who have had casual sexual encounters are not worthy of being in long term relationships or being married. You have insulted quite a few women on this forum with just that attitude, because THEY have had casual sexual encounters...some have had quite a few! And yet, they are COMPLETELY loyal to their husbands. And there are some who have had very few partners of any kind, and they have cheated on their husbands. So which do you find more disgusting? A woman who has had many PAST partners, never cheated, and is loyal to her spouse? Or one who had only a could of long term relationships and cheated on her husband?


Yes like i said before im being hypocritical. And yet for some reason i still believe that if a guy is invited to have sex with a woman like i was (i have never forced myself) it is sort of less wrong of him than it is for the girl


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## Twofaces (Dec 5, 2011)

Jack, do you live under a bridge by chance???


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Jack29 said:


> Yes like i said before im being hypocritical. And yet for some reason i still believe that* if a guy is invited to have sex with a woman* like i was (i have never forced myself) it is sort of *less wrong of him to have sex than if a girl starts having sex with him!*


Wow... W.T.F.?? This is such a screwed up way of thinking, I can't even begin to comprehend.

Ok, so, in YOUR mind, women shouldn't initiate sex??? Are you KIDDING me?!?!?! Good grief! I would hate to have my husband have to make all the moves! If I did, we'd be having less sex! Forget that! I like sex too much to allow THAT to happen!


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> Wow... W.T.F.?? This is such a screwed up way of thinking, I can't even begin to comprehend.
> 
> Ok, so, in YOUR mind, women shouldn't initiate sex??? Are you KIDDING me?!?!?! Good grief! I would hate to have my husband have to make all the moves! If I did, we'd be having less sex! Forget that! I like sex too much to allow THAT to happen!


That indeed is screwed up and its not where i though id go when i started the thread. I got no objection if women starts sex, i am more concerned about time frames, like 2nd time too people meet might a bit soon


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

Jack29 said:


> That indeed is screwed up and its not where i though id go when i started the thread. I got no objection if women starts sex, i am more concerned about time frames, like 2nd time too people meet might a bit soon


Actually time frame is not it either, what the problem is if a girl wants to have casual sex go right ahead but if she decides she wants to go further and make more of it than casual sex i'm probably going to dump her anyway and not feel bad about it!


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Jack29 said:


> Actually time frame is not it either, what the problem is if a girl wants to have casual sex and than go right ahead but if she decides she wants to go further and make more of it than casual sex probably going to dump her anyway and not feel bad about it!


Translation: Women who enjoy casual sex at any point in their lifetime are not worthy of long term relationships... Where are MrsKY(Is that the right name?), anony2, and that_girl? I know there are more...

Seriously, that line of thinking is really f*cked up.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Jack29 said:


> Actually time frame is not it either, what the problem is if a girl wants to have casual sex go right ahead but if she decides she wants to go further and make more of it than casual sex i'm probably going to dump her anyway and not feel bad about it!


and a girl can say the exact thing about you 
plus I doubt they will really care most women aren't into hypocrites.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> Translation: Women who enjoy casual sex at any point in their lifetime are not worthy of long term relationships... Where are MrsKY(Is that the right name?), anony2, and that_girl? I know there are more...
> 
> Seriously, that line of thinking is really f*cked up.


Seriously though why would anyone care about what someone with someone with double standards thinks about them.
Not really the ones to measure morality.


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## Pandakiss (Oct 29, 2010)

What was wrong with having a talk that started 

I consider all forms of oral sex to be sex

I consider if a penis enters any combo of the 3 holes, being sex, is cheating

If you let a guy put his tongue downstairs or in your mouth it's cheating

A guy or girl touching your breasts, privates, or on the bottom to be cheating

No one night stands, that's cheating

You lay down ground rules. You say what is not acceptable during the course of the relationship. 

What a person did during singledom is little concern. Acting single when in a relationship is not ok. 

That is the point for talking about expectations and addressing behaviors in the relationship. What matters is we both go and get std tests, and we are clean. 

If one person dosent consider oral sex to be sex, and another person does, than a talk is in order. And if no agreement can be reached, then part ways. No point in parting ways with bad blood just because someone feels differently than you. 

We are all different, the trick is finding a person who is willing to meet you halfway and you meet them halfway.


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## anonim (Apr 24, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> OR!!! Here's the real kicker... KNOWING how you would react, she could have said that JUST to f*ck with your head! :rofl: :rofl:


that would be just as messed up as the OP


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Jack29 said:


> Actually time frame is not it either, what the problem is if a girl wants to have casual sex go right ahead but if she decides she wants to go further and make more of it than casual sex i'm probably going to dump her anyway and not feel bad about it!


So you will use her, and you had the audacity to call your ex's actions 'disgusting' :rofl:


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

abitlost said:


> and a girl can say the exact thing about you
> plus I doubt they will really care most women aren't into hypocrites.


Fair enough, it will be a question of who will drop the hot potato the first. But i really hope i will meet better women in the future!


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

anonim said:


> that would be just as messed up as the OP


True. But the point is... He doesn't know because he ASSUMED what she was saying about what did or did not happen.


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

abitlost said:


> So you will use her, and you had the audacity to call your ex's actions 'disgusting' :rofl:


I use them as much as they use me, but i wasnt walking around asking for casual sex, both times i got it they started it


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

ah but that's where the problem lies, all the 'better woman' I have known are looking for a 'better man'.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Jack29 said:


> Fair enough, it will be a question of who will drop the hot potato the first. But i really hope i will meet better women in the future!


Again, what makes these women "bad"? No, I wasn't promiscuous. I had two partners before my husband, one time each. And each was a boyfriend at the time. Since meeting my husband, I have only had sex with him. When I was younger, there were a lot of guys I made out with. So that makes me "bad"?


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Jack29 said:


> I use them as much as they use me, but i wasnt walking around asking for casual sex, both times i got it they started it


You think women don't get propositioned for sex?


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> Again, what makes these women "bad"? No, I wasn't promiscuous. I had two partners before my husband, one time each. And each was a boyfriend at the time. Since meeting my husband, I have only had sex with him. When I was younger, there were a lot of guys I made out with. So that makes me "bad"?


I got into more trouble than i bargained for and maybe there is nothing wrong with you.

Merry Christmas everyone and while disagreeing could you be more polite? I don't really mind it but still... its a bit difficult to talk to people who assume you need Counseling and you live under a rock and that sort of thing.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Jack29 said:


> I got into more trouble than i bargained for and maybe there is nothing wrong with you.


This is the point we're trying to make. You make assumptions about women who enjoy sex, even having casual encounters, but you think it's perfectly ok for YOU to do it. You said that you don;t know WHY you feel the way you do about all of this...counseling was suggested so you could get to the bottom of it. You came here and said that it is "disgusting" that she was "naked with these boys", not knowing if they even participated in ANY kind of sexual act. If you're gonna hold women to a certain standard, you should do the same for yourself. You don't want a relationship with a woman who has had casual sexual encounters, you shouldn't have them either.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

You cannot find a woman to meet your standards (however confusing they are) if you are planning on sleeping with her in 3 weeks. You can't have it both ways. It means you will dump every woman you meet.... cuz she cannot meet your standards.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

For the record, football is not fun to me. I'd rather make out.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Jack29 said:


> That indeed is screwed up and its not where i though id go when i started the thread. I got no objection if women starts sex, i am more concerned about time frames, like 2nd time too people meet might a bit soon


I would have taken my husband to bed on the first night. OMG yes. But he wanted to wait cause he likes me LOL!  Yay for that, but on our 2nd date, it was one like donkey kong! Awww yea.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

And this is why stories of my past from 10 years ago were not pertinent to my relationship NOW. People grow and change. lol. Dang.


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

I realize im becoming quite unpopular around here and maybe im not getting it when its time to shut up and im quite ok with women telling me i have to have my head examined and accusing me of hypocrisy. 

Men on the other side ought to know better and stand up more for themselfes instead of starting to take the side of women on this. I know guys myself (in real life not from internet forums) that are married or on the way to it and complain to their pals that there is times they cannot get over what ex did before she met them etc. I accept im having double standards and yes hypocritcal too but what about those other guys? they are even worse than me! Sleeping with their gf and than imagining them dropping into parties and screwing around! I have been there and i know is unpleasant!

I don't know how much people here will buy it since what i am mentioning is particularly convenient to my argument at this point in time but please everyone i am not interested in theoretical debates there really ARE men out there who have been for years with a girl and behind their back they will start complaining to their budys about "I don't know, i just feel jelous sometimes" and most of the times is things ex did before she met him!

And there are girls who would laugh at stories they girlfriends tell them about what they did with this guy in the club and tell them "oh really so he was hot was he? he had a six pack had he? he had a big d**k?" and than go behind their backs and tell the story to everybody and than tell what a s**t that girl is! Who is hypocritical now huh?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

LOL Then those people shouldn't get married. Good grief. You talk about women like we're cattle to be inspected. Gross.

I'm glad I have an awesome husband who loves ME. Not just the idea of me.

But I don't have friends who get with people in clubs. lol! Gross. You are hanging out with the wrong women.


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## lilith23 (Sep 6, 2012)

IMO, some people prefer to have sex or sexual stuffs only when there's serious commitment, while some are fine with having them with people they find hot but are not looking for commitment but just some fun. I belong to the first group, but I have never thought of the second group disgusting. I would only find it disgusting if there are lies and misleading involved. But otherwise why is it wrong? What is so wrong for two people to have some sexual fun and not looking for commitment, if neither of them have serious relationships nor are lying/misleading anyone?

If you are not ok with what someone likes or does then don't pick him/her. One thing is not choosing people who are not our cup of tea, another is to cast judgment on whatever we don't agree or like.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Jack29 said:


> I realize im becoming quite unpopular around here and maybe im not getting it when its time to shut up and im quite ok with women telling me i have to have my head examined and accusing me of hypocrisy.


Don't really think you need your head examined just hypocritical, not accusing it's pretty obvious.



> Men on the other side ought to know better ad stand up more for themselfes instead of starting to take the side of women on this. I know guys myself (in real life not from internet forums) that are married or on the way to it and complain to their pals that there is times they cannot get over what ex did before she met them etc. I accept im having double standards and yes hypocritcal too but what about those other guys? they are even worse than me! Sleeping with their gf and than imagining them dropping into parties and screwing around! I have been there and i know is unpleasant!]


Stand up to what? it's no ones buisness what someone does when there single, if you don't want to be with someone like you then thats your choice but to call others who do the same thing you do 'disgusting' is not going to make you appealing.
The guys who cheat are gross just like women who have a boyfriend and cheat but that's pretty irrelevant to what your talking about.



> I don't know how much people here will buy it since what i am mentioning is particularly convenient to my argument at this point in time but please everyone i am not interested in theoretical debates there really ARE men out there who have been for years with a girl and behind their back they will start complaining to their budys about "I don't know, i just feel jelous sometimes" and most of the times is things ex did before she met him!]


There are women out there who are insecure about there partners past as well, again don't see why that's relevant.



> And there are girls who would laugh at stories they girlfriends tell them about what they did with this guy in the club and tell them "oh really so he was hot was he? he had a six pack had he? he had a big d**k?" and than go behind their backs and tell the story to everybody and than tell what a s**t that girl is! Who is hypocritical now huh?


The girls who do that are hypocritical but what does that have to do with what your talking about?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

It's been my personal experience and observance that people who "hate" things or "detest" things are usually just jealous that they don't or can't do the same.

BUt that's just my opinion.


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## janesmith (Nov 29, 2010)

you will GUARANTEE that NO WOMAN you date will ever be honest with you after spending very little time with you. Good luck with that dude. You, Mary and her five sisters must spend a lot of time together...oh wait, you dont have that problem because you TOO have sex with females you barely know


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

Man you would really hate me and my past but that's your loss cos I'm a massive ball of faithful awesome if a man touches me *there*

No, not THERE!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

Your posts are unclear and hard for me to follow, but what I've gathered is that you think people should only have sexual encounters with people they are in committed relationships with.

But actually, you don't think that, you think that *women* should only be sexual within the confines of a relationship. For some reason that you can't articulate, it's okay for men to have casual encounters.

Then you're throwing a whole lot of other stuff about what men you know do, or what women you know do - so what? You don't know what *all* women do or what *all* men do, so I don't see why anyone here should agree with you just because you have the same kind of genitalia.

I had some casual sexual encounters when I was single because why not? It's fun, I wasn't committed to anyone, and it's up to me what I do with my body. Now I am married and totally committed to my husband. I will only ever choose to share my body with him.

You need to sort out some of your attitudes towards women.


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

The belief that actions mean nothing is one that many have and they suffer due to this irrational belief. They cannot bring themselves to admit truth or fathom that perhaps they are exhibiting or surrounded by individuals who display self destructive tendencies and have their own deep mental turmoils in their head.


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

To the OP.

It's perfectly acceptable to have standards and live by them. If you don't like someones past you can choose to not have a relationship with that person. I don't think the people that have engaged in casual sex with large numbers of people when they were single are bad people. Just people with questionable judgement and a very active rationalization hamster. You will notice that the people that took exception to your post had no problem with saying things to their partners just to mess with them or they felt comfortable using them to satisfy some internal game. I find this behavior somewhat ironic when you consider they seem to forget their actions have consequences. If you exhibit the same behavior as the person your passing judgement on your being a total Hippocrate which completely nullifies your position. If a girl asks you to have sex with her you do not get a moral pass. If your not a troll messing with this forum you have some growing up to do. Does your double standard have cultural roots?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Jack29 said:


> I realize im becoming quite unpopular around here and maybe im not getting it when its time to shut up and im quite ok with women telling me i have to have my head examined and accusing me of hypocrisy.
> 
> Men on the other side ought to know better and stand up more for themselfes instead of starting to take the side of women on this. I know guys myself (in real life not from internet forums) that are married or on the way to it and complain to their pals that there is times they cannot get over what ex did before she met them etc. I accept im having double standards and yes hypocritcal too but what about those other guys? they are even worse than me! Sleeping with their gf and than imagining them dropping into parties and screwing around! I have been there and i know is unpleasant!
> 
> ...


Really? This is the kind of woman you and your male friends hang around with? So you, your male friends and these women are all very promiscuous. And then you complain that the women who are just like you are promiscuous. It's all very hypocritical.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Enginerd said:


> To the OP.
> It's perfectly acceptable to have standards and live by them. If you don't like someones past you can choose to not have a relationship with that person. I don't think the people that have engaged in casual sex with large numbers of people when they were single are bad people. Just people with questionable judgement and a very active rationalization hamster.


Are we even talking about people who engaged in casual sex with large numbers of people when they were single? How many is a large number? 1? 2? 100? How many people is it oko to have casual sex with before one’s judgment becomes questionable?


Enginerd said:


> You will notice that the people that took exception to your post had no problem with saying things to their partners just to mess with them or they felt comfortable using them to satisfy some internal game.


The above is a complete fabrication. Not one person who took exception to his post said that they had “no problem with saying things to their partners just to mess with them”. Yet you make it sound like everyone who took exception to his post said this. Many of us made no statement at all about messing with anyone’s head. 

The few, very few, who did said that they would mess with the heads of a guy who was being a hypocrite like the OP was. There is no internal game going on. 
Why are you disparaging every woman here who took exception to the OP’s hypocritical point of view?


Enginerd said:


> I find this behavior somewhat ironic when you consider they seem to forget their actions have consequences.


Who here is not taking responsibility for their own actions?


Enginerd said:


> If you exhibit the same behavior as the person your passing judgement on your being a total Hippocrate which completely nullifies your position. If a girl asks you to have sex with her you do not get a moral pass. If your not a troll messing with this forum you have some growing up to do. Does your double standard have cultural roots?


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

Enginerd said:


> To the OP.
> 
> It's perfectly acceptable to have standards and live by them. If you don't like someones past you can choose to not have a relationship with that person. I don't think the people that have engaged in casual sex with large numbers of people when they were single are bad people. Just people with questionable judgement and a very active rationalization hamster. You will notice that the people that took exception to your post had no problem with saying things to their partners just to mess with them or they felt comfortable using them to satisfy some internal game. I find this behavior somewhat ironic when you consider they seem to forget their actions have consequences. If you exhibit the same behavior as the person your passing judgement on your being a total Hippocrate which completely nullifies your position. If a girl asks you to have sex with her you do not get a moral pass. If your not a troll messing with this forum you have some growing up to do. Does your double standard have cultural roots?


Im no troll, im talking about my life experiences. 

Like some people are saying here im not very consistent with my posts, thats true, i wish i had clarified things better, maybe writing is not my thing.

Cultural? I wouldn't say so!

I have screwed only 2 girls casually and i have never started it and on my side it was more because i was feeling lonely rather than horny! I have had the chance at least 3 other times that i can remember to do the same but have not felt like it and not gone ahead and i feel proud about it! I have never bragged to my friends about other women making moves on me! I don't think i am as hypocrite as most people here would like to believe although granted im not the example of righteousness either!

Its harder than you think to turn a girl down just like that, tell her no you're not OK with the way she wants to screw you and walk away. But it leads to a painful break up and angry feelings on both sides.


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Really? This is the kind of woman you and your male friends hang around with? So you, your male friends and these women are all very promiscuous. And then you complain that the women who are just like you are promiscuous. It's all very hypocritical.


I don't hang out in any exceptional promiscuous society none of my friends do drugs or things of the sort. There is lots of students where i hang out and you can see all sorts of people


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> The above is a complete fabrication. Not one person who took exception to his post said that they had “no problem with saying things to their partners just to mess with them”. Yet you make it sound like everyone who took exception to his post said this. Many of us made no statement at all about messing with anyone’s head.


I think he was referring to my comment that the OPs EX may have said some things to him, just to mess with his head because she knew it would piss him off. And there was ONE reply which said "That's something I would do". However, I have NEVER said anything just to "mess with my husband's head". And I agree, Ele, we know what the consequences of our actions are/would be. So that part is definitely fabrication.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

The 'that was something I would do' was a joke, I wouldn't and have never done something like that (mostly because they wouldn't be worth replying to), if someone was trying preach to me about what I have done (when they have done the same thing) I would simply walk away.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Jack,
You're over thinking this stuff.

If a man walks up to you and gives you $1000.00 , no strings attached, would you accept it?
Yes?
If he did the same thing to your buddies and their buddies , what would you guys think of him?
That he's nuts or something.
But you all will accepted the money, so long its not illegal.
Would you take this guy as your business partner or financial advisor if you wanted to start a business?
No.
But as long as he's giving away _his _money you will accept, right?
Yes.
Does that make you a hypocrite, or does it mean that you are looking for a specific_ type_ of business partner?

So here's the rub.

It makes no sense obsessing over a woman's sexual activity. 
It's HER body. She offers you casual sex, then by all means have fun if you're up to it.

*However NEVER let ANYONE tell you what type of woman you ought to marry.*
You set your standard and stick to your guns.

If you want to marry a woman with a low number , who never had casual sex , and is different to the ones you had tons of sex with whilst you were single ,
Then that's YOUR RIGHT and YOUR CHOICE. 

They choose to give you casual sex = Their Choice.
You choose to marry a "different type of girl" = Your Choice.

BTW, _Everyone has their own, personal double standards.._


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> *Dude, find a woman who you are compatible with. Nothing more difficult than this. Be a quality man and you will have a good selection of quality women to choose from. You get to decide what quality is.*
> *This woman is not compatible with you. Nothing else matters.*
> .


^^^^^^^^
THIS RIGHT THERE.
The choice is yours.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

:iagree: 
If someone doesn't have the qualities your looking for move on.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Jack29 said:


> I don't hang out in any exceptional promiscuous society none of my friends do drugs or things of the sort. There is lots of students where i hang out and you can see all sorts of people


Promiscuous refers to sexual activity not drugs. 

You talked things girls (women) say to each other about men they pick up in clubs. That's little conversation you discribed that you seem to think is a normal conversation for women to have would only be had by some pretty promiscuous women.

So the men they are hanging with, you and your friends must alos be pretty promiscuous.


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Promiscuous refers to sexual activity not drugs.
> 
> You talked things girls (women) say to each other about men they pick up in clubs. That's little conversation you discribed that you seem to think is a normal conversation for women to have would only be had by some pretty promiscuous women.
> 
> So the men they are hanging with, you and your friends must alos be pretty promiscuous.


Yeah i know promiscuous isn't about drugs but i think they sort of go together. May be wrong!

I have heard 2 or 3 conversations like that, its girls who brag about boys they pick up one of them is even a psychology professor! She's really ugly, maybe she did it because she was sexually frustrated. 

I mentioned that conversation because people were calling me hypocritical to judge girls like that and i came back making the point that if a girl has casual sex there is people who are close girlfriends with her that are shooting their mouths behind their backs and that is a much bigger hypocrisy than mine is!

My male friends are not promiscuous. I dont want to get into details but they are not and they did not knew of what kind of history those girls i had sex with had and i could not tell them either!


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> Jack,
> You're over thinking this stuff.
> 
> If a man walks up to you and gives you $1000.00 , no strings attached, would you accept it?
> ...


You're making some good points there and its all right answers but im still bothered with what ifs. I had a good thing going on with this girl i talked about when i started the thread and i am sure that if she would not have gone about having so much oral sex with other guys (she said once 10 guys than second time i asked her would not give an exact number) we could have worked out other issues we had and been together (i mean i would not have given up on her that easy)

But overall i agree with what you say!


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Jack29 said:


> But overall i agree with what you say!


So if you agree, then simply MOVE ON.
Whenever you are ready to settle down and get married , remember that girl and CHOOSE WISELY.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

I'm coming late to this.

First off, Jack...you aren't writing very well. I only got to page two and I'm still not certain what they problem is. A lot of the dialogue seems to be happening in your head and you blame the reader if they don't understand what you are saying.

But...to answer what seems to be MY take on the issue.

If a girl asked me 'what is your number' and I give her a number...and then SHE turns around and says "well, I slept with X men...but that's not all I got naked with..." I'd think she was jerking my chain. She isn't being clear and she is alluding to things instead of being straightforward.

Now, maybe she's trying to be seductive, but she's certainly trying to be a tease or she's alluding to a much higher number without actually owning up to that number.

In any case, if you don't think it's seductive and you don't like being jerked around, dump her. I'd probably do the same.

Okay. The other issue you alluded to is that she's going out and sucking off and getting naked with strange men under the very minimal of personal relationships.

That is where that 'number' thing comes in. Was it 10? 50? Everyone she meets on short accquaintance? The number she is NOT sharing.

So let me preface this comment with this one: I had this female friend. She asked me if I'd sleep with anything female. (Sadly, at the time I probably would) I could see, though she was too polite to say, that that showed a distinct lack of class, boundaries and self respect and her opinion of my plummeted.

So...if a woman did the same thing, yes, I wouldn't respect her as much. If she'd drop to her knees and get naked for anyone with a good haircut, no body oder and a good line, she's not someone I would be into.

Because than I'm not someone special. I'm 'Next'.

And yes. At a certainl level of attractiveness. all a girl needs to do IS start to make out with some guys. There is no seduction necessary.

That doesn't make her disgusting. I just don't do casual sex. At least so far.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Does it require a tux?


On casual acquaintance, I believe that a raincoat is the proper BJ attaire...


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

lilith23 said:


> IMO, some people prefer to have sex or sexual stuffs only when there's serious commitment, while some are fine with having them with people they find hot but are not looking for commitment but just some fun. I belong to the first group, but I have never thought of the second group disgusting. I would only find it disgusting if there are lies and misleading involved. But otherwise why is it wrong? What is so wrong for two people to have some sexual fun and not looking for commitment, if neither of them have serious relationships nor are lying/misleading anyone?
> 
> If you are not ok with what someone likes or does then don't pick him/her. One thing is not choosing people who are not our cup of tea, another is to cast judgment on whatever we don't agree or like.


I think the biggest problem the OP has is a lack of 'choosiness' on the part of the woman. That sight unseen she would be willing to do intimate, and possibly consequence laden actions with virtual strangers.

He considers this a measure of judgment...or a lack thereof.

Since HE cannot get pregnant...and has a lower chance of getting a STD, he feels it's less of a risk for a man. 

Some of this is true purely as a function of biology.

Disgust seems a bit strong for describing a woman like that. My one caveat where I agree is if she finds SO MANY MEN attractive...that just makes my competition that much greater and if she displays other poor boundary behavior, yes, that action could be troubling. For example, parallel partners, substance abuse, poor work performance, callousness to my feelings.

But none of that is sexual, though IMO it might point to being a potential cheater.

Context is king


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

JCD said:


> Disgust seems a bit strong for describing a woman like that. My one caveat where I agree is if she finds SO MANY MEN attractive...that just makes my competition that much greater and if she displays other poor boundary behavior, yes, that action could be troubling. For example, parallel partners, substance abuse, poor work performance, callousness to my feelings.
> 
> But none of that is sexual, though IMO it might point to being a potential cheater.
> 
> Context is king


DITTO!

I was feeling that if I stayed longer I was in line for being cheated on, probably with some blonder and taller guy than me! And it is all of course linked to her past, people can't change at the touch of a button just because they entered a relationship! 

She used to give me the "you should have trust in me" speech but probably most guys have been given it prior to being cheated on!


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Jack29 said:


> DITTO!
> 
> I was feeling that if I stayed longer I was in line for being cheated on, probably with some blonder and taller guy than me! And it is all of course linked to her past, people can't change at the touch of a button just because they entered a relationship!
> 
> She used to give me the "you should have trust in me" speech but probably most guys have been given it prior to being cheated on!


You need to bear this in mind. There are a LOT of women on this forum who took the Sexual Revolution and Female Autonomy to heart.

They enjoyed their single life...and they have since gone on to become respectable FAITHFUL wives to their husbands.

I'm guessing that one or two of them might, just MIGHT, have had the occasionaly one night stand or two or three...or...

So just because a woman DID play the field doesn't mean she can't be a loyal teammate after she finishes batting around with the minor leagues.

I believe people can change.

So, JUST being a bit sexually experimental doesn't mean she will cheat. Being sexually experimental with some other things...that's certainly a workable thesis...or at least selection criteria.

But here's the thing...the worst people? They are going to lie to you. I'd rather get some hard truth about X number of partners than someone gaslighting me.


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

JCD said:


> You need to bear this in mind. There are a LOT of women on this forum who took the Sexual Revolution and Female Autonomy to heart.
> 
> They enjoyed their single life...and they have since gone on to become respectable FAITHFUL wives to their husbands.
> 
> ...


Oh, I know about female liberation and sexual emancipation and there is no man on woman alive who is going to make up my mind for me by convincing me that if a girl has had one or two screw arounds can chalk it out to THE MOVEMENT no sir! Even if it is a single one night stand it shows a lot of flaws of character. 

And as about to telling the hard truth, yes some girls do it to come clean but the girl in question, she was a ballcutter (don't know if that will go through, lets try bollcutter). So when she told me the truth she was also letting me know that: OK i have been around the block, get over it, i don't care about your feelings. She never was supportive of my feelings about her past, if you know what i mean!


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Jack29 said:


> Yep, once was a girl who i met at some friends dinner she friended me on FB than asked me i liked to go clubbing, i liked to, we made out and than took a taxi to her place. 2nd a girl i met at... well friends party she asked me if i liked to to drop into her room some time because she enjoyed conversation first time round and i liked! and im 29 but was 28 and 27 when events happened
> 
> And for the record one of them dumped me a week afterwards because she already had boyfriend and i did not knew she was cheating, she told me they were over! And 2nd time i dumped girl because i was really falling for her but she made me uncomfortable with many male friends she had and given her past history i wasn't liking the outcome!


You seem to have some emotional issues. And I don't mean that to be condescending, either. But you don't seem to hold yourself to the standards you place on others. You're never going to get any girl to stick around with this attitude.


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> You seem to have some emotional issues. And I don't mean that to be condescending, either. But you don't seem to hold yourself to the standards you place on others. You're never going to get any girl to stick around with this attitude.


I have emotional issues? How about you are out of touch with reality? We live in a world where men and women are not judged by the same standards. Most guys will be patted on the back after something like a one night stand but eyebrows are going to be risen about the girl. That is how it works i have not made that rule i have been borne in it and so have you. 

If i have emotional issues i will go to the shrink with a huge group discount because every guy I know in real life thinks it like that!


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Jack29 said:


> Yes like i said before im being hypocritical. And yet for some reason i still believe that if a guy is invited to have sex with a woman like i was (i have never forced myself) it is sort of less wrong of him than it is for the girl


That is SO not true. Men are not better or worse than women, and vice versa. Whatever is wrong for a woman must be wrong for a man. 

Just so you know, there is absolutely no women who has any self-worth whatsoever who will put up with this kind of belief. There is no such thing as any action that is less or more wrong for anyone, or for any reason. Murder is just as wrong for men as it is for women, sexual promiscuity is just as wrong, cheating is just as wrong, lying is just as wrong, arrogance is just as wrong. Men are not above women. Women are not above men.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Jack29 said:


> Actually time frame is not it either, what the problem is if a girl wants to have casual sex go right ahead but if she decides she wants to go further and make more of it than casual sex i'm probably going to dump her anyway and not feel bad about it!


Then your shallow and just like two of my ex boyfriends who only stuck around because they wanted sex.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Jack29 said:


> Fair enough, it will be a question of who will drop the hot potato the first. But i really hope i will meet better women in the future!


Oh you will. But they will soon see that you're a shallow hypocrite, and dump you right away and not feel badly about it.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Jack29 said:


> I have emotional issues? How about you are out of touch with reality? We live in a world where men and women are not judged by the same standards. Most guys will be patted on the back after something like a one night stand but eyebrows are going to be risen about the girl. That is how it works i have not made that rule i have been borne in it and so have you.


I don't know anyone personally who would share this view. None of my friends would pat a man on the back for an action they would judge a woman for. In my world if something's wrong, it's wrong for everyone.



> If i have emotional issues i will go to the shrink with a huge group discount because every guy I know in real life thinks it like that!


Then maybe you should change your friends? No respectable woman with even an ounce of self-worth would stay with a man who views women the way you do. It's harsh, but women want equality. Marriages don't last when certain standards are only applied to one spouse. Like when women expect and demand fidelity, but refuse to have sex with their husbands. Or when husbands expect frequent sex, but neglect their wive's emotional needs. Or when one spouse expects total honesty, but keeps secrets from their spouse. 

Hypocrisy and double-standards will not make a marriage last.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Lol Stop arguing, guys. Just go do what you do.


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> Then your shallow and just like two of my ex boyfriends who only stuck around because they wanted sex.


Looks like you didn't mind


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Jack29 said:


> Looks like you didn't mind


This would work better if you weren't so damned insulting to people who disagree with you. 

I (sort of) agree with you and I find your attitude pretty crappy.

Keep this civil and hypothetical. Everyone.


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

JCD said:


> This would work better if you weren't so damned insulting to people who disagree with you.
> 
> I (sort of) agree with you and I find your attitude pretty crappy.
> 
> Keep this civil and hypothetical. Everyone.


No No No No No......Waaaaait just a god d*m*d second here!

She was the 1rst to accuse me of having a relationship just for sex and all I did was accuse her back and what do you know I am taking all the flack here!

And all this is coming after all the talk that everybody is giving me here about equality! Where is the equality when i cannot give back the same type of insult i am accused of!

In the words of R.P.Mcmurphy in "One flew over the cuckoo's nest": When a man is being screwed he's got a right to holler!


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I had lovers and boyfriends and a friend with benefits. 

I've had sex without love and love without sex.

It's life. It happens.

And I don't give a damn what people think. My husband is happy I am who I am.  SO am I.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Jack29 said:


> No No No No No......Waaaaait just a god d*m*d second here!
> 
> She was the 1rst to accuse me of having a relationship just for sex and all I did was accuse her back and what do you know I am taking all the flack here!
> 
> ...


Yup. But I also recall that you pretty much fired the first salvo at French Fry implying that she was a woman of very loose virtue at best.

I also added an 'Everyone' to the end of my statement. Not so much to defend you, but things are getting a little pointed with the 'guys like you are hypocritcal scum' talk.

Everyone has criteria for their mates. I would prefer one who doesn't do casual sex either. But that doesn't mean that occasionally I might not like casual sex (if I were single) or that everyone believes the way I do.

I think there is some regret in both men and women who went down that path...and some don't.

Not my place to judge...except in my selection of future sexual partners.


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## Ostera (Nov 1, 2012)

Jack29 said:


> No I don't dig at all. Either with a pick or a shovel!
> 
> I am not however in a position to judge you nor will I do so. But If i were to date you i would be gnawed by doubts of the type:
> 
> How am I not sure she wouldn't do it again, or how am I not sure she didnt do more than make out or what if she comes accross one of those boys she made out and than decides she has unfinished business with the guy!


I see where you are coming from... let me expand. When I got with my stbxw a little over 3 years ago she would trickle me information on her past relationships.

After I was totally in love with her I began to discover that she had cheated on every exclusive relationship she had ever been in. It didn't matter whether she was married or not. 

I was foolish enough to marry her and sure as sh1t she cheated on me.

Some people have no moral fiber... my wife is one of those.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Jack29 said:


> Looks like you didn't mind


Of course I cared. They didn't get sex from me, either. But they sure wanted it, and made it clear that no man would ever wait to have sex with me for longer than a year. Said that if I wanted a husband I needed to treat a guy like one and put out. I disagreed and they left within a week of me saying so. 

So looks like men want sex just as much as women. You're willing to dump a girl who has sex, and some other men are willing to dump a girl who doesn't. Both are unfortunate and ridiculous circumstances, imo.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

It's one thing to have criteria for a potential spouse; similar religious and political beliefs, similar moral standards, similar desires for the future(children, owning a house, etc.), support for each others dreams and ambitions, etc. But if I were to hold my husband to a higher standard than I hold myself, I would not deserve him. If I expect to be accepted in spite of my mistakes(all of them), then I should accept my husband in spite of his mistakes as well. Otherwise, how can I expect people to respect me if I don't respect them?

My husband was my only sexual partner, and that includes oral. But I made other relational mistakes when I was in my teens, and my husband accepted me all the same. My husband had two other sexual partners besides me, and that was all before he and I were together, so I have no right to be offended or put off by those choices. I would feel the same way if they had been one night stands.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Honestly, if this girls history is really that important, then fine. You have the right to choose what's important in a woman's history and what's not. 

*But*, if you don't apply the same standards to yourself as you do to the women you're interested in, I can pretty safely assume that no woman would be impressed by that. We don't like to be treated like we're lesser or worse than men. We can understand someone being upset over our past mistakes or values, even though we don't like to be judged by who we _used_ to be. Women change. We mature, just like men do. Just because we made a mistake, or even a few mistakes, once in the past doesn't mean we would make the same mistake today. But anyway, we can accept that choices in our past might taint a man's view of us. What really is unacceptable is that a man who has made the same mistakes as we, judges those mistakes in a harsher light than he judges himself and dumps us over those mistakes. Therefore, it only makes sense that he should understand that we reserve the right to dump him for the same reasons.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

I can see why you have the name Created2Write


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

abitlost said:


> I can see why you have the name Created2Write


Thank you very much. I appreciate that.


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

Ostera said:


> I see where you are coming from... let me expand. When I got with my stbxw a little over 3 years ago she would trickle me information on her past relationships.
> 
> After I was totally in love with her I began to discover that she had cheated on every exclusive relationship she had ever been in. It didn't matter whether she was married or not.
> 
> ...


Exactly that is what happens!

I was with the girl in question for 3months only and she swears she never cheated and yet at a party I saw her flirting with another guy and i got to hand it to him he was taller and blonder and it drove me right up the wall and through the roof. I never stopped bugging her about it and she would became frustrated and say "i did not want to screw him" and not talk to me and since then i was always keeping an eye on the exit door! Usually given their past history of how easy they drop their pants as soon as you see them too much into some other guy the 1+1=2 rule kicks in and you can figure things out! I had other girlfriends too and trusted them much more!

I mean i had been with other girls as well but never felt like they would cheat so its hardly me being delusional! I didnt wait around for the train wreck though!


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Jack29 said:


> Exactly that is what happens!
> 
> I was with the girl in question for 3months only and she swears she never cheated and yet at a party I saw her flirting with another guy and i got to hand it to him he was taller and blonder and it drove me right up the wall and through the roof. I never stopped bugging her about it and she would became frustrated and say "i did not want to screw him" and not talk to me and since then i was always keeping an eye on the exit door! Usually given their past history of how easy they drop their pants as soon as you see them too much into some other guy the 1+1=2 rule kicks in and you can figure things out! I had other girlfriends too and trusted them much more!
> 
> I mean i had been with other girls as well but never felt like they would cheat so its hardly me being delusional! I didnt wait around for the train wreck though!


Flirting _could_ lead to other things, but it doesn't always. Sometimes it's nothing more than playful banter. Sometimes it isn't and the woman really does have a difficult time being exclusive. 

But again, there comes a time when you either choose to trust or you don't. Even wives make mistakes. Are you going to divorce your wife the second she messes up and fails to impress you?


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Ostera said:


> I see where you are coming from... let me expand. When I got with my stbxw a little over 3 years ago she would trickle me information on her past relationships.
> 
> After I was totally in love with her I began to discover that she had cheated on every exclusive relationship she had ever been in. It didn't matter whether she was married or not.
> 
> ...


A woman (or man) like that would lie to you no matter how many questions you asked about her past.

So the only way to defend yourself from a person like that is to do a bit of investigating...but most people, even innocent ones, would take umbrage at that.


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

'woman of loose virtue'?

:rofl:

what is this the 1900s? Come on!


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> Flirting _could_ lead to other things, but it doesn't always. Sometimes it's nothing more than playful banter. Sometimes it isn't and the woman really does have a difficult time being exclusive.
> 
> But again, there comes a time when you either choose to trust or you don't. Even wives make mistakes. Are you going to divorce your wife the second she messes up and fails to impress you?


You don't chose it is what you feel in your guts. You can chose if you will listen or if you will not listen and most times the guts are right but the outcome could take some time to show itself!

But if you have a girl with a past like that in your hands even things that would seem innocent when other girls have done them would strike as less so in her case, at least that was my experience!

I don't know about what i will do if my wife does that or if i will marry at all, not that i got anything against marriage!


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## Ostera (Nov 1, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> Flirting _could_ lead to other things, but it doesn't always. *Sometimes it's nothing more than playful banter. Sometimes it isn't and the woman really does have a difficult time being exclusive*.
> 
> But again, there comes a time when you either choose to trust or you don't. Even wives make mistakes. Are you going to divorce your wife the second she messes up and fails to impress you?


After I married my wife told me she still 'flirted' at work so she could still 'play in the game'. That is bullsh1t. You don't need to 'play the game' when you are committed. That's a standard I see women allow themselves but would never tolerate it in their man.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Some women.

I don't flirt. I truly don't. I am professional at work.


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## lilith23 (Sep 6, 2012)

Last time I checked, men with such conservative views are closed minded and traditional, that they hold different standards of what is acceptable for men and what is acceptable for women. It would be ok for them for the men to just have sex even if they don't intend to have a commitment, but not ok for women to do the same.

Also, given the chance they might not refuse sex just for fun, but still cast judgment onto those women who so easily slept with them ("oh yeah so I can enjoy some fun sex with you, that makes you a wh*re but I will still use and dispose you, as well as judge you in the process").

Sometimes, there's no point in arguing with people who are too conservative. Good thing is they are less and less in this world, as the world becomes more and more understanding and women can gain more and more equality and respect.


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

Ostera said:


> After I married my wife told me she still 'flirted' at work so she could still 'play in the game'. That is bullsh1t. You don't need to 'paly the game' when you are committed. That's a standard I see women allow themselves but would never tolerate it in their man.


Oh man! I am so happy i dumped my ex on time before i saw anything unpleasant. She loved flirting too and I knew it was wrong! I never flirted with her myself always hated it!

The funny thing is that i still can't let go and sometimes I would ask people around if they saw her do anything with other boys when still with me. It is like an intellectual puzzle and i want to solve it if she cheated or not! I had never ever before asked about other girls!


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Ostera said:


> After I married my wife told me she still 'flirted' at work so she could still 'play in the game'. That is bullsh1t. You don't need to 'paly the game' when you are committed. That's a standard I see women allow themselves but would never tolerate it in their man.


I never understood that concept, if your at good job there's is no need to flirt.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Dollystanford said:


> 'woman of loose virtue'?
> 
> :rofl:
> 
> what is this the 1900s? Come on!


 <Shows Current Poetic License>


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Jack29 said:


> Oh man! I am so happy i dumped my ex on time before i saw anything unpleasant. She loved flirting too and I knew it was wrong! *I never flirted with her myself always hated it!*


You never even flirted with your own girlfriend?!?!??!?! 
I am SOOO glad my husband still flirts with me! Sometimes it's "playful banter"...sometimes more risque. But the bottom line is flirting with your mate, be it bf/gf or spouse, is FUN! Dude, lighten up! There is nothing wrong with flirting with your own bf/gf or spouse!



Jack29 said:


> The funny thing is that i still can't let go and sometimes I would ask people around if they saw her do anything with *other boys when still with me.* It is like an intellectual puzzle and i want to solve it if she cheated or not! I had never ever before asked about other girls!


And this little bit right here is why SOME of us suspect you are not 29. Just sayin'....


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

It's always so fun to see where a thread starts and then see where it goes. I went to the first page of this one, and then the last page.

I believe in deep commitments. I held out for a woman who did too. I had a very low number (1) she had an even lower number (0). We liked that about each other. 

Give up on stalking this old girlfriend. Go out and find someone who matches your morals. But if your morals are, you can sleep with as many women as you want, but she can't have slept with as many men as she wanted, then you'll have a hard time finding someone. I mean, why should a woman with a low number want to be in a relationship with you, you might cheat on her. How can she know you'll never again do what you did before?


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

lilith23 said:


> Last time I checked, men with such conservative views are closed minded and traditional, that they hold different standards of what is acceptable for men and what is acceptable for women. It would be ok for them for the men to just have sex even if they don't intend to have a commitment, but not ok for women to do the same.
> 
> Also, given the chance they might not refuse sex just for fun, but still cast judgment onto those women who so easily slept with them ("oh yeah so I can enjoy some fun sex with you, that makes you a wh*re but I will still use and dispose you, as well as judge you in the process").
> 
> Sometimes, there's no point in arguing with people who are too conservative. Good thing is they are less and less in this world, as the world becomes more and more understanding and women can gain more and more equality and respect.


I want to be as happy as the next guy, i just don't want to be a happy fool hooking up with girls that will do things behind my back. 

And for the record that is how this kind of break up works if a woman cheats on you, you call her a wh*re and she calls you a je*k and an a$$hole. What do you expect me to say about my ex? I dumped her because she was the most excellent faithful person i have ever seen? I give reasons why we broke up and her being a wh*re happen to be the reasons!


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

so she cheated on you?


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

abitlost said:


> so she cheated on you?


She did not cheat on me, but i was afraid she would do the "getting naked thing". She used to tell me she was past it.

Let me put it this way if i could bet 1million$ if she'd cheat or not on me in a year or so with me giving it the best of my efforts i would bet that she would cheat!

And i still got a feeling she might have done so, i can't shake it off, but i got nothing concrete to go with it and given that i had never had the feeling about other girls there has to be smth to it but still i cant put my finger anywhere exactly!


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Jack29 said:


> She did not cheat on me, but i was afraid she would do the "getting naked thing". She used to tell me she was past it.
> 
> Let me put it this way if i could bet 1million$ if she'd cheat or not on me in a year or so with me giving it the best of my efforts i would bet that she would cheat!


If you felt uncomfortable or insecure in the relationship then you did the best thing getting out of it,
but the fact she told you the truth and you predicted she might/will cheat doesn't make her a wh*re.


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

abitlost said:


> If you felt uncomfortable or insecure in the relationship then you did the best thing getting out of it,
> but the fact she told you the truth and you predicted she might/will cheat doesn't make her a wh*re.


Man she was a ballcutter belive you me. Some girls will tell you the truth because they want your balls pickled in jar its their way of telling you: yeah what are you going to do about it huh? There was a guy she was flirting with when she was with me and his girlfriend was there too, i don't know how much fuss she kicked up between him and his girlfriend after that and i knew she did and she never owned up that she made a mistake! Do you get it now? Her attitude was: OK i did it, get over it.

You wold like some support from your girlfriend if she used to give free orals a couple of years ago don't you? Well i did not get any!


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## lilith23 (Sep 6, 2012)

It seems that the OP is mixing between having different preferences (aka enjoying casual sex without commitment) and having morals/principals (aka not cheating the moment we starts a commitment with someone else).

Some people enjoy having casual sex and would still cheat and not care even if they have a serious relationship with someone else. Some people enjoy having casual sex when they are single, but would not cheat when they start a serious relationship with someone else. Jack29, you did enjoy casual sex back then, but does this mean you would cheat your future partner? Probably not. And there are plenty women or men out there who would also not. You just have to look for people who doesn't lie to others, whatever their preferences are. That is to say that the woman with the most "clean and pure" past (0 partners or sexual experience) will not necessarily be 100% faithful to you, while the woman with "dirty" past will not necessarily cheat on you. Morals/principles and preferences are 2 different things.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Jack29 said:


> Man she was a ballcutter belive you me. Some girls will tell you the truth because they want your balls pickled in jar its their way of telling you: yeah what are you going to do about it huh? There was a guy she was flirting with when she was with me and his girlfriend was there too, i don't know how much fuss she kicked up between him and his girlfriend after that and i knew she did and she never owned up that she made a mistake! Do you get it now? Her attitude was: OK i did it, get over it.
> 
> You wold like some support from your girlfriend if she used to give free orals a couple of years ago don't you? Well i did not get any!


Her actions in the relationship sounds like she was very disrespectful.
I think a lot of people's point was not every woman/man who have had a similar past as her's will flirt/cheat when they're in a relationship. You have had casual sex in the past, that's not going to define how you act in a relationship and it won't for many others as well.


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## Ostera (Nov 1, 2012)

Jack29 said:


> Oh man! I am so happy i dumped my ex on time before i saw anything unpleasant. She loved flirting too and I knew it was wrong! I never flirted with her myself always hated it!
> 
> The funny thing is that i still can't let go and sometimes I would ask people around if they saw her do anything with other boys when still with me. It is like an intellectual puzzle and i want to solve it if she cheated or not! I had never ever before asked about other girls!


I flirted with my wife all the time. Problem is, she needs attention of MEN, not just a man. When she left me she was hooked up with someone else in less than a week. She can't be alone and she can't be faithful.. 

Flirting when you are committed to someone is dangerous ground. 

In my next relationship if I see any of that. It's a deal breaker.


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

lilith23 said:


> It seems that the OP is mixing between having different preferences (aka enjoying casual sex without commitment) and having morals/principals (aka not cheating the moment we starts a commitment with someone else).
> 
> Some people enjoy having casual sex and would still cheat and not care even if they have a serious relationship with someone else. Some people enjoy having casual sex when they are single, but would not cheat when they start a serious relationship with someone else. Jack29, you did enjoy casual sex back then, but does this mean you would cheat your future partner? Probably not. And there are plenty women or men out there who would also not. You just have to look for people who doesn't lie to others, whatever their preferences are. That is to say that the woman with the most "clean and pure" past (0 partners or sexual experience) will not necessarily be 100% faithful to you, while the woman with "dirty" past will not necessarily cheat on you. Morals/principles and preferences are 2 different things.


The OP mixes nothing between casual sex prior to relationship and cheating while commited, the OP on the other side is attentive enough to see the connection between a binge of BJ prior to commitment and a probable giving into the temptation of a BJ after commitment!

And let cut the crap about what SOME people who enjoy casual sex do and lets focus on what MOST people who enjoy casual sex do!

And if you had read my previous posts i havent really enjoyed casual sex my whole life! The two times that i did was more because i felt lonely! And I have had other girls coming at me and have refused (or rather acted like i did not understand we could end up in a bed together)


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## Ostera (Nov 1, 2012)

Jack29 said:


> Man she was a ballcutter belive you me. Some girls will tell you the truth because they want your balls pickled in jar its their way of telling you: yeah what are you going to do about it huh? There was a guy she was flirting with when she was with me and his girlfriend was there too, i don't know how much fuss she kicked up between him and his girlfriend after that and i knew she did and she never owned up that she made a mistake! Do you get it now? *Her attitude was: OK i did it, get over it.*You wold like some support from your girlfriend if she used to give free orals a couple of years ago don't you? Well i did not get any!


My x favorite line instead of apologizing for ANYTHING was, "i've already forgiven myself."

Well when she eventually finds out I have her on cheaterville. I will 'already forgiven myself." Two can play that game.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Ostera said:


> My x favorite line instead of apologizing for ANYTHING was, "i've already forgiven myself."
> 
> Well when she eventually finds out I have her on cheaterville. I will 'already forgiven myself." Two can play that game.


:lol: :smthumbup:


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

Ostera said:


> I flirted with my wife all the time. Problem is, she needs attention of MEN, not just a man. When she left me she was hooked up with someone else in less than a week. She can't be alone and she can't be faithful..
> 
> Flirting when you are committed to someone is dangerous ground.
> 
> In my next relationship if I see any of that. It's a deal breaker.


Oh man x2!!!!!!

The resemblances are increasing more and more it will going to look like we dated xerox copies and maybe we might work out some stereotype!

The very first time i met my ex i truly understood what an attention wh*re is, i mean the meaning of the word! She was always talking aloud so that you could hear her more than the everyone else in the room, she always wanted all other man in the room to listen to what she said, when in company of other people she would try to come up with scandalous topics of conversation just so as everybody else would be like: what's going on what are they talking about. She would even go as far as to try to climb over fences when with others if nobody was paying attention to her!


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Jack29 said:


> The OP mixes nothing between casual sex prior to relationship and cheating while commited, the OP on the other side is attentive enough to see the connection between a binge of BJ prior to commitment and a probable giving into the temptation of a BJ after commitment!


As others have stated, that isn't necessarily an indication. There are some who have NEVER cheated in ANY relationship, never had any casual sexual encounters, and yet they cheated on their spouses. There are some who have had a LOT of sexual experience, including ONS and BJs, you name it... they stayed faithful to their commitments. 



Jack29 said:


> And let cut the crap about what SOME people who enjoy casual sex do and lets focus on what MOST people who enjoy casual sex do!


And, what have you learned from the people you asked about her habits? Did they say she cheated? Or they don't know? Or did they ask you WHY you need to keep harping on this subject about THIS girl?



Jack29 said:


> And if you had read my previous posts i havent really enjoyed casual sex my whole life! The two times that i did was more because i felt lonely! And I have had other girls coming at me and have refused (or rather acted like i did not understand we could end up in a bed together)


I think "enjoyed" is a bad choice of word... unless you hated the sex with those two girls (or were they actually women?). And really, the use of exclamations is unnecessary. No need to get excited over EVERYTHING you say. 

Bottom line, Jack: she wasn't compatible with you. You broke up, just let it go. Find a woman who IS compatible.


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

Ostera said:


> My x favorite line instead of apologizing for ANYTHING was, "i've already forgiven myself."
> 
> Well when she eventually finds out I have her on cheaterville. I will 'already forgiven myself." Two can play that game.


I wonder what else our exes had in common. Although what we have found out already can give some good stereotype. So far is

both have had a colorful past
both like flirting
both like to be at the center of attention
both don't care about they way we feel.

I wonder how your ex picked em! Mine had a thing for hot boys. Im not bad looking myself but if the girl likes hot boys, hell there is always someone better looking out there!


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Jack...stop digging


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> And, what have you learned from the people you asked about her habits? Did they say she cheated? Or they don't know? Or did they ask you WHY you need to keep harping on this subject about THIS girl?


First off this is the very first time i have done this kind of thing i have never EVER before investigated about girls i have always felt quite safe they would give me all the facts!

I have not discovered that she cheated on me or that she ever cheated but we don't have that many common friends, we have known each other at university and before that we used to be in different places so there is plenty of room for telling lies about the past. But so far i got nothing!


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

EleGirl said:


> YOu had sex with 2 girls the second time you met with them? That's pretty casual. Why is it ok for you to have casual sex but not ok for a woman to have it?


This IS my beef with threads like this....

Our oldest is 22, still never had sex with a woman because he VALUES the emotional connection and believes in the sharing of it all, the whole package, the romance of Love & commitment ... he is against Casual sex... He is not a hypocrite... and doesn't engage in this "Double standard" that so many men think is well and OK...shouldn't our harsher judgement be upon ourselves for our own behavior -before we spew it on another? 

And after this.. we can then decide what is acceptable - in the realm of "sexual values".... people are all over the map on this one. 

Your excuse...falling due to Loneliness....This will not sustain you. It's only for a night, then the emptiness returns in the morning. 

It's an integrity thing. Every man should practice what they preach & value - no sex being exempt. 

I'll never understand the measuring stick -projecting judgement on another -when YOU have done the same thing.... 2 chicks 2nd date... CASUAL SEX it surely was.* Do you REGRET those encounters or do you justify them?* 




> *Jack29 said:* I use them as much as they use me, but i wasnt walking around asking for casual sex, both times i got it they started it.


 You feel the man is the weaker sex - hormonally.... but the man should pursue... and the woman be the gatekeeper... this is Older fashioned thinking for sure... Modern people will spit at these beliefs. 

Personally I don't have a problem with people of this mindset... I feel it is the role of the man to come after the women, and her being the receptive lover.. though once commitment is in force...a life being built together, Love is in the air...I think she ought to be as aggressive as Him -both initiating the nookie! That is just MY personal thinking on the roles of the sexes. Some would call me archaic though ...I've been called worse. 




sandc said:


> It's always so fun to see where a thread starts and then see where it goes. I went to the first page of this one, and then the last page.
> 
> I believe in deep commitments. I held out for a woman who did too. I had a very low number (1) she had an even lower number (0). We liked that about each other.
> 
> Give up on stalking this old girlfriend. Go out and find someone who matches your morals. But if your morals are, you can sleep with as many women as you want, but she can't have slept with as many men as she wanted, then you'll have a hard time finding someone. I mean, why should a woman with a low number want to be in a relationship with you, you might cheat on her. How can she know you'll never again do what you did before?



Well said !









Jack29....Your unruly heart is warring with your values & what you want in a woman today. Clearly the Older fashioned type are not growing in numbers, you will find more of these in Church , not the clubs, and bars. Or the Romantic type of women... who believes in waiting for Love.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Jack,
You are obsessing over this girl because you invested too much in her too soon.

You know sometimes when you're standing in front of the mirror ,getting dressed for an important function and you put on that crisp , white linen shirt , you start to feel confident as you button up. 
Then you put the tie around your neck,under the collar and fix the Windsor knot.
You take your jacket , put your arms through the sleeves and shrug your shoulders to adjust the jacket.
You look in the mirror and smile to yourself again, feeling confident.
Then you notice that there's something like lint or dust on your shoulder.
What do you do?
DUST YOUR SHOULDER OFF.

Some relationships are like that.
You must be prepared to,
_Dust the dirt off your shoulder._

Stop wasting time on non productive relationships. At the first sign of BS, turn your back and dust your shoulder off.
Don't wait for excuses and lies. Don't try to find out why, it breaks your self confidence and only makes you look weak.

_Don't cry over spilt milk._

One of the most important lessons in relationships is learning how to move on.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Ostera said:


> I flirted with my wife all the time. _*Problem is, she needs attention of MEN, not just a man*._ When she left me she was hooked up with someone else in less than a week. She can't be alone and she can't be faithful..


Some women need constant attention with sexual undertones from multiple men. The constantly seek validation , sometimes even from strange men. A little , light flirting is ok IMO, but some women get depressed if they are not the centre of attention from every man in the room.

Some men also constantly seek validation and approval from women. If a woman [ other than their spouse ] ignores them and shows attention or praise to another man , they get jealous and immediately begin to 
" mark their territory" by displaying aggressive behaviour towards the other males.

Both type of behaviours are unhealthy for any long term relationship.
The men who display that type of behaviour are by far the worst, IMO. There's a name we have for them down here that's not TAM friendly.......


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

I'm thinking that "hypocrisy" is right up there with lying and cheating... and probably higher up the ladder of things we find unacceptable in a mate (more than casual sex in the past).

It sounds like Jack thinks that the hypocrisy is acceptable, while the women here are trying to say that it is a negative trait that women will see as a character flaw. I would think men would agree that hypocrisy in a woman is an ugly trait. 

I THINK the women here are also trying to say that its NOT the number of past partners that make one more or less a future cheater. It is OTHER mental/emotional/whatever factors besides the number of past partners. No correlation. 

BUT, still... Do your homework up front. BEFORE you get emotionally invested. Do not give your heart to someone before you KNOW them. TALK.... about everything. Grown ups need to talk more before committing to each other. Talk about all these things, ESPECIALLY deal-breakers before you ever have sex with them, and before you mentally or emotionally commit. 

*And after all that talking, and you feel that they are sincere (and not a wh*re), then do not have sex with them until you are married. (Because then you'd be contributing to their fall... they'd be a wh*re for having had sex with you before marriage....then you'd have to dump them. Vicious cycle.)


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

SunnyT said:


> *And after all that talking, and you feel that they are sincere (and not a wh*re), then do not have sex with them until you are married. (Because then you'd be contributing to their fall... they'd be a wh*re for having had sex with you before marriage....then you'd have to dump them. Vicious cycle.)


He is not looking for virginity, he has already stated that on this thread. 

He just feels a woman should care more about the *emotional connection*/*commitment*/* Love * before she gives herself sexually... he wants someone who values the act of sex, not jumping in on the 1st date ....but also not Mrs Purity - making him wait till their wedding night. 

If I was a man, I would feel the exact same way - but I would also judge myself & my own behavior before judging another. 

*Once he can open his eyes to this fact.... then I think he'll be a **better man*, *a more worthy man for this type of woman. This should be his concern*. 

Then he'll be able to hold his head higher in what he wants... and wait for it himself.


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## Ostera (Nov 1, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> Some women need constant attention with sexual undertones from multiple men. *The constantly seek validation , sometimes even from strange men. A little , light flirting is ok IMO, but some women get depressed if they are not the centre of attention from every man in the room.*Some men also constantly seek validation and approval from women. If a woman [ other than their spouse ] ignores them and shows attention or praise to another man , they get jealous and immediately begin to
> " mark their territory" by displaying aggressive behaviour towards the other males.
> 
> Both type of behaviours are unhealthy for any long term relationship.
> The men who display that type of behaviour are by far the worst, IMO. There's a name we have for them down here that's not TAM friendly.......


Light flirting is one thing... when she goes out with her daughter for drinks and two days later I check her phone and there is a vioce mail that I listen to and it says, " Hey it's John, you still meeting me at _____ for drinks tonight?"

Tha'ts what I am talking about.. I'm not a young adult, neither is the WW. This particular incident was over a year ago when we were trying the R. She told me he was buying her and daughter drinks but she didn't remember giving out her number.. Maybe her daughter did, cause the apple don't fall far from the tree.. both my soon to be x and stepdaughter aren't faithful to anyone EVER.

I believe it has a lot to do with the dynamics of the situation. M y X's dad cheated on her mom.. she experienced at the age of 8 the damage and devastation her mom when through. Fast forward, my believes every man cheats, so she does it first.

Daughter learns this behavior and finds it normal because that is what she has seen growing up her whole life. Daughter is 32 has 1 kid she abandond after a yr. She's been a party animal since. Mom, who is 52 loves to go out with her and pick up guys but (attempting to be more 'proper') ends up marrying them so it looks right.. then she cheats on the H.

It's was the most bizarre personal relationship I have ever been in. Almost surreal.


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## Ostera (Nov 1, 2012)

SunnyT said:


> I'm thinking that "hypocrisy" is right up there with lying and cheating... and probably higher up the ladder of things we find unacceptable in a mate (more than casual sex in the past).
> 
> It sounds like Jack thinks that the hypocrisy is acceptable, while the women here are trying to say that it is a negative trait that women will see as a character flaw. I would think men would agree that hypocrisy in a woman is an ugly trait.
> 
> ...



Talking, ah yes. I am 50 and she is 52. We talked as casual friends since '05. We started a relationship in '09. I 'Thought' her words were sincere. Come to find out since she knew me when I had a pretty good looking girlfriend when we first met, she wanted to see what I was all about. 

Some people like my x are VERY experienced at the 'game' .


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> He is not looking for virginity, he has already stated that on this thread.
> 
> He just feels a woman should care more about the *emotional connection*/*commitment*/* Love * before she gives herself sexually... he wants someone who values the act of sex, not jumping in on the 1st date ....but also not Mrs Purity - making him wait till their wedding night.
> 
> ...



Well, I do agree with you here... I admit to being sarcastic about his hypocrisy. 

But with the way he talks here, I don't see any change happening.


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## Ostera (Nov 1, 2012)

that_girl said:


> And this is why stories of my past from 10 years ago were not pertinent to my relationship NOW. People grow and change. lol. Dang.


Not all... but good for you. My X had an affair with a 31 yr old married guy when she was 17. Fare enough, people change.

Fast forward to where she is 52 now... and has not been faithful to any man during that time span... Personality Disorders don't let you change.


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## Ostera (Nov 1, 2012)

Dollystanford said:


> Man you would really hate me and my past but that's your loss cos I'm a massive ball of faithful awesome if a man touches me *there*
> 
> No, not THERE!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


LOL


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

SunnyT said:


> Well, I do agree with you here... I admit to being sarcastic about his hypocrisy.
> 
> But with the way he talks here, I don't see any change happening.


Now here is the thing though.... and women don't LIKE me saying this.... but this is what I see time after time after time again....

The MEN WHO BED *MORE WOMEN* are the ALPHAS.... and lets get real... men will do whatever needs done to make themselves more attractive to reign those chicks in... (why not, that ups their odds, even their overall *value*... can we blame them????)..... women all seem to compete for the greatest ALPHA... they look for the $$ & the most desired MAN. 

Anyone want to disagree with me on this ?

The day women start thinking like ME (ha ha , I won't be holding my breath here) (now I am being sarcastic)... is the day MEN will STOP feeling the Double standard is OK. Women have already proved by their actions and their choices in men -that they DON'T care, the vast majority of them anyway. 

I am an exception. 

IN this light.. I fully understand why they think the way they do.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Ostera said:


> Not all... but good for you. My X had an affair with a 31 yr old married guy when she was 17. Fare enough, people change.
> 
> Fast forward to where she is 52 now... and has not been faithful to any man during that time span... Personality Disorders don't let you change.


Well, that was her choice.

20 years ago I was high every day and stealing from my mom.

10 years ago I was a selfish girlfriend who didn't "get it"



Yea. I don't do drugs now or steal. I "get it" now. People change. It's a choice.


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## Ostera (Nov 1, 2012)

jack, my comments were towards women who aren't faithful. Not single women... my X was not faithful in committed relationships and marriage... come 5 husbands and cheated on them all. 2 live in boyfriends and the same.. the common demoninator in that scenerio is HER

Your situation is different. You x wasn't married or living with someone and cheating..

All the fruit doesn't fit in the same barrel.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

*Now here is the thing though.... and women don't LIKE me saying this.... but this is what I see time after time after time again....

The MEN WHO BED MORE WOMEN are the ALPHAS.... and lets get real... men will do whatever needs done to make themselves more attractive to reign those chicks in... (why not, that ups their odds, even their overall value... can we blame them????)..... women all seem to compete for the greatest ALPHA... they look for the $$ & the most desired MAN.

Anyone want to disagree with me on this ?*


 I kind of do.... but not here on this thread. Good debate topic tho!


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

Ostera said:


> jack, my comments were towards women who aren't faithful. Not single women... my X was not faithful in committed relationships and marriage... come 5 husbands and cheated on them all. 2 live in boyfriends and the same.. the common demoninator in that scenerio is HER
> 
> Your situation is different. You x wasn't married or living with someone and cheating..
> 
> All the fruit doesn't fit in the same barrel.


Yes, they almost belong to different generations. But i see they had a lot of similarities in things that matter. You wrote before that she came from a troubled family and my x too! She would say how she hated her dad because he was such a cheater and trying to do as many women as he could and guess what when i assessed her i got the impression she was like some little female version of her dad. She had not cheated yet though but give her time!


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

wow she has a lot of similarties to me too lol


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Now here is the thing though.... and women don't LIKE me saying this.... but this is what I see time after time after time again....
> 
> The MEN WHO BED *MORE WOMEN* are the ALPHAS.... and lets get real... men will do whatever needs done to make themselves more attractive to reign those chicks in... (why not, that ups their odds, even their overall *value*... can we blame them????)..... women all seem to compete for the greatest ALPHA... they look for the $$ & the most desired MAN.
> 
> ...



There's certain aspects of what you've said I agree with.


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

SunnyT said:


> *Now here is the thing though.... and women don't LIKE me saying this.... but this is what I see time after time after time again....
> 
> The MEN WHO BED MORE WOMEN are the ALPHAS.... and lets get real... men will do whatever needs done to make themselves more attractive to reign those chicks in... (why not, that ups their odds, even their overall value... can we blame them????)..... women all seem to compete for the greatest ALPHA... they look for the $$ & the most desired MAN.
> 
> ...


i will disagree with you on this. I hear the Alpha/ beta topic quite often.

I personally hate to give orders (or impose myself) to my partner and i hate taking them. I am a firm believer that as long as both sides have a bit of common sense in them there is absolutely no need for boundaries and things of the sort because both sides know beforehand what is proper and what isnt! 

That is why i left this relationship i was talking about, rather than playing it alpha male start to tell her what to do and what not to do i chose to go for some girl who would not have the need for that kind of talk in the first place!

I have seen a guy who was the most Alpha male ever who literally grabbed his gf by her neck, she was talking to me and another friend of mine and still they did not last together very long because she dumped him!

Once again common sense on both sides and no reason for who is alpha and who sets the rules and who obeys!


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

Jack29 said:


> i will disagree with you on this. I hear the Alpha/ beta topic quite often.
> 
> I personally hate to give orders (or impose myself) to my partner and i hate taking them. I am a firm believer that as long as both sides have a bit of common sense in them there is absolutely no need for boundaries and things of the sort because both sides know beforehand what is proper and what isnt!
> 
> ...




"I am a firm believer that as long as both sides have a bit of common sense in them there is absolutely no need for boundaries and things of the sort because both sides know beforehand what is proper and what isnt!"


After reading this it became clear why your having trouble keeping a good women. Who ever taught you this way of thinking did not understand the nature of human relationships. Common sense does not dictate dynamics in a relationship. If it did our species would have failed by now. Biology and survival of the species dictates human relationships. There's so much proof supporting this concept now I don't understand why it's so hard to accept for some.

If you do not set boundaries within your relationship you will be considered a weak man. I'm not talking about harshly dictating to your spouse. That's an extreme way of thinking. I'm talking about letting her know in a kind way about your expectations and limits for the relationship. If those boundaries are crossed she must believe you will respond in your best interest. If she thinks she can walk all over you she will most likely do it and then naturally seek a stronger man even if she is not aware of what she's doing. She will seek a someone she considers a stronger leader. 

I use to think like you because I was child of the 70's and we were taught a load of BS about what women want. In reality our societal structure has progressed massively in the last 100 years but evolution takes thousands of years for small changes. While I'm happy to live in a society that treats women with more respect I still believe the dynamic between a men and women is basically the same as it was 500 years ago. If you don't believe me just spend some more time on this board and eventually you'll be a believer. The CWI forum is the most enlightening.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

SunnyT said:


> I kind of do.... but not here on this thread. Good debate topic tho!


You kind of disagree with me...... .if so, then you must not have been looking for $$, success, "presence" , beaming confidence , & the most desired man around when choosing a Mate...those are all ALPHA characteristics... and women flock like love sick puppies to these types.

I've seen all the threads asking women what they want in a man... CONFIDENCE is #1, success,







.. a dynamo in bed shorty follow....

This idea of a man NOT having his C0ck all over town or the College dorms is never on these lists. For me, that's important. 

How experienced he IS as a Lover is far more important to the majority -at least here at TAM ...over his attitude of "casual sex " when he was single & having a good time. 

How one handles themselves sexually when they are single speaks volumes TO ME.... Of course people can change too... and this I would not hold against them...

But just like religion.... how we raise, teach & guide our children - how to view & handle sex....I don't consider this a little thing... So we need to be on the same page....if you go forth in marriage / or want kids, that is. 

Yeah....I often wish they had a debate section here, I'd eat that up! 



> *Jack29 said*: i will disagree with you on this. I hear the Alpha/ beta topic quite often.
> 
> I personally hate to give orders (or impose myself) to my partner and i hate taking them. *I am a firm believer that as long as both sides have a bit of common sense in them there is absolutely no need for boundaries and things of the sort because both sides know beforehand what is proper and what isnt!*


 if you are naturally compatible and have enough respect for each other ... this IS how it should be. 



> I have seen a guy who was the most Alpha male ever who literally grabbed his gf by her neck, she was talking to me and another friend of mine and still they did not last together very long because she dumped him!


 Good for her, that was the BAD Alpha rearing it's ugly head - JackA$$ abuser .... ( Just like Bad Beta = doormat) .....That man had some issues.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Enginerd said:


> I'm talking about letting her know in a kind
> [ firm ] way about your expectations and limits for the relationship.


:iagree:

He's setting up himself for disappointment everytime because 
He's not making his expectations clearly known. He's not planting his feet firmly down.
In a sense one cannot blame the girls for running circles around him.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

*You kind of disagree with me...... .if so, then you must not have been looking for $$, success, "presence" , beaming confidence , & the most desired man around when choosing a Mate...those are all ALPHA characteristics... and women flock like love sick puppies to these types.*

Well, this would be part of what I'd argue. I was working on these traits for myself...and feeling confident about it. I wasn't looking for a man. Although, I understand that some women "look for a man"...especially those with these qualities. 

Might just be semantics at play here though!

*How do you do a partial quote???


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

I've said this in other threads, I'll repeat it here. 

If it was important for you to discover exactly what she meant, you should have asked her and told her up front that her not answering fully was a deal breaker. But surmising after the fact about what it did or didn't mean, is a guessing game at best. 

Also - using the cop out that society says X is okay, therefore I can't help but think that way myself is kind of lame. Just because there is a double standard doesn't mean its your sole duty to reinforce it. I think I'd prefer there be a real answer there as to why - religion, etc, not just "because."

As any woman you date who figures that out about you is going to be caught in Catch-22 hell. If she is honest with you, she'll be a *****. If she isn't honest she'll be a ***** and a liar. There's no way to win in that scenario, and hence why a lot of women wouldn't want to put themselves into that situation, as others have noted.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

SunnyT said:


> *You kind of disagree with me...... .if so, then you must not have been looking for $$, success, "presence" , beaming confidence , & the most desired man around when choosing a Mate...those are all ALPHA characteristics... and women flock like love sick puppies to these types.*
> 
> Well, this would be part of what I'd argue. I was working on these traits for myself...and feeling confident about it. I wasn't looking for a man. Although, I understand that some women "look for a man"...especially those with these qualities.
> 
> ...


I always dreamed of my "Knight"...Girlfriends were boring, I wanted a Great guy... I was careful to not tie myself with those who appeared the fly by night user type....they come a dime a dozen in youth... I wanted to find another who felt as strongly as myself about finding real love. I was very lucky to meet him as young as I did - at 15...he was 18. 

My husband helped ME be a better person, we both helped each other. I see many on here say.. until you have all your crap together, don't get into a relationship... but sometimes 2 people can help each other too. It's all in what you want out of life... but be careful who you choose. 

That's just our story.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

Two people can totally help one another, but - until you are mature and stable enough to at least know what you want - you aren't likely to be able to make the right choice in a partner. If you can't be sure what you want, you can't be sure your partner or would be partner is compatible with that. 

Some people might discover that young, SA - some people don't discover that until much later. Unfortunately, some people finally figure out who they are what they want after they are already married, and realize their spouse isn't part of their new "self discovery."


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Starstarfish said:


> Some people might discover that young, SA - some people don't discover that until much later. Unfortunately, some people finally figure out who they are what they want after they are already married, and realize their spouse isn't part of their new "self discovery."


We were both on the mature side, never the risk taking party type... very responsible...had our feet on the ground..Jobs early, saving $$ early...didn't want to have kids later in life, wanted to be young parents.....everything we wanted THEN is what we would do all over again too ~We've never wavered. 

I guess this is pretty unheard of....but there are some of us.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Starstarfish said:


> Unfortunately, some people finally figure out who they are what they want after they are already married, and realize their spouse isn't part of their new "self discovery."


I think this would make a GREAT thread topic... 

so I just made one >> 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...u-married-learned-afterwards.html#post1317373
.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Ostera said:


> After I married my wife told me she still 'flirted' at work so she could still 'play in the game'. That is bullsh1t. You don't need to 'play the game' when you are committed. That's a standard I see women allow themselves but would never tolerate it in their man.


I'm not saying that I think flirting while you're in a committed relationship is right, I'm saying that not all women flirt and intend to cheat or do things that are sexual afterward.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Jack29 said:


> She did not cheat on me, but i was afraid she would do the "getting naked thing". She used to tell me she was past it.
> 
> Let me put it this way if i could bet 1million$ if she'd cheat or not on me in a year or so with me giving it the best of my efforts i would bet that she would cheat!
> 
> And i still got a feeling she might have done so, i can't shake it off, but i got nothing concrete to go with it and given that i had never had the feeling about other girls there has to be smth to it but still i cant put my finger anywhere exactly!


Jack, look, you can't judge people entirely on the mistakes they made in the past. _People change_. My mother had one night stands. My mom had casual sex with a lot of men. Yet, when she started dating my dad she changed, and they have been happily married for over twenty five years. My dad didn't judge her based on her past, and yet my mom has never cheated. 

A person's past does not define who they are today or who they will be tomorrow.


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## Ostera (Nov 1, 2012)

that_girl said:


> Well, that was her choice.
> 
> 20 years ago I was high every day and stealing from my mom.
> 
> ...


My X my have 'chose' to do this. But I believe it's her personality disorder that 'drives' it. When you have commitment issues and put up walls, throw in self esteem and everything else. They really can't help themselves.. they have to have that validation. I believe it's more on a subconscious level. 

Basically, you were just having fun and then 'grew up". What she does has to do with psychological issues.


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> Jack, look, you can't judge people entirely on the mistakes they made in the past. _People change_. My mother had one night stands. My mom had casual sex with a lot of men. Yet, when she started dating my dad she changed, and they have been happily married for over twenty five years. My dad didn't judge her based on her past, and yet my mom has never cheated.
> 
> A person's past does not define who they are today or who they will be tomorrow.



Quite true, quite true.... I will go as far as admitting that its not all black and white and why not, there are party girls who turn honest out there but as to my case, I will leave it to somebody else bite that bullet thank you very much and maybe see what happens (although i usually cut all contacts with my x-es!)


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> Jack, look, you can't judge people entirely on the mistakes they made in the past. _People change_. My mother had one night stands. My mom had casual sex with a lot of men. Yet, when she started dating my dad she changed, and they have been happily married for over twenty five years. My dad didn't judge her based on her past, and yet my mom has never cheated.
> 
> A person's past does not define who they are today or who they will be tomorrow.


I was looking at your quotations from Shakespeare below your posts and although I never made much headway with him myself i recall pretty well that Juliet was a virgin and probably most heroins in most love stories are virgins. There has to be a reason why authors chose virgins to write love stories right? Probably you will find smth more down to earth like in Jane Austen with Pride and Prejudice, first you make a wrong choice and than well....you might make another wrong choice and another, but even those girls are a very far call from the "party girl" type!


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

FrenchFry said:


> For the record, Juliet was also around 14.
> 
> JSYK.


Wow! She had no regrets dying without hopping from party to party first and sucking guys off! Faith in womankind restored!


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Jack29 said:


> Wow! She had no regrets dying without hopping from party to party first and sucking guys off! Faith in womankind restored!


One would hope that a CHILD wouldn't be doing those things anyway.


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## sharkeey (Apr 27, 2012)

Jack29 said:


> I have seen a guy who was the most Alpha male ever who literally grabbed his gf by her neck, she was talking to me and another friend of mine


That's not being Alpha that's being a physically abusive coward.


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

Just a brief follow up to my effed up love story:

Yesterday night a recived a fb message from my x wishing me a merry christmas and happy new year. I was on fb i give wishes back and than i tell her i was sorry for last time we talked together when i dumped her because pretty much i told her the same things i wrote in this thread and i stopped short of calling her a wh*re, i admited that it is hypocritical having sex with a girl right away like I did and than complaining that she shouldnt have casual sex i also took the line of FrenchFry here and told her that maybe i was playing it BJ police a bit too much! Finally i let her know, that could have been my mistake, that i was not over her yet but a had a good mind to get there.

Soon as she hears that she thinks i want to get back together and tells me she appreciated my honesty even though she knows it was brutal she tells me "You're dangerous cause you're honest", interestingly enough she wouldn't say anything like she was ready to make changes in her life to have me back! It made me sad, it really did but i made it clear to her immediately that i had made up my mind that i was afraid to get back with her because if she cheated on me all she lost was me but i stood to lose her and my sanity. She gets pissed at me and we end the conversation!

This morning i wake up, i wanted to see if she had sent other messages during the night (nothing) than i check her fb profile out, we arent fb friends anymore and what do i see? her profile pic is she with some other guy and others wishing well to the couple! Not a very happy morning for me and in my books she just cheated on her new BF!


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Honestly it's really nice that you owned and apologized for your part in the breakup with her, but let her go.
Her actions with fb and her past will only affect you as long as you let them, did she try to get back with you? I don't understand how she just cheated on her bf.

Sounds like with deleting you on facebook, changing her pic ect she was trying to get a rise out of you, don't take the bait.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Jack,
Forget her and move on with your life bro.
Don't let it get toxic!


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Jack29 said:


> I was looking at your quotations from Shakespeare below your posts and although I never made much headway with him myself i recall pretty well that Juliet was a virgin and probably most heroins in most love stories are virgins. There has to be a reason why authors chose virgins to write love stories right? Probably you will find smth more down to earth like in Jane Austen with Pride and Prejudice, first you make a wrong choice and than well....you might make another wrong choice and another, but even those girls are a very far call from the "party girl" type!


....Right, well, this isn't the 1600's or the 1700's. Back then women were also considered more prone to be influenced the devil than men, and many priests advocated treating women poorly to keep them in line and remind them of their social status...which was usually underneath men at all times. The fact that Elizabeth I was an unmarried Queen for so long was astonishing given how women were treated then, but I digress. 

Women today are _equal_ with men. Or, at least, we have the right to be and most people acknowledge that there are very few differences between men and women cognitively, emotionally and even physically. Back when Shakespeare and Jane Austen lived, even within marriage it was considered a sin for a woman to enjoy sexual intercourse with her husband. Although I love Shakespeare and Austen and the Bronte sisters, I would _never_ want to be a woman in that era. Sex with my husband has been one of the greatest pleasures of married life with him. Nor would I want to marry a man of that era. Romance novels, which depict a man and woman of that era having mutually satisfying sex, was not the norm. Men were allowed to enjoy sex, but women weren't. Being a "virgin", while definitely something that men expected of the time, meant absolutely nothing in the kind of woman she was, or the kind of man she was with. Men had mistresses, and that was considered _legal_. A woman couldn't divorce her husband over adultery, but a man could divorce his wife if she had an affair. I really don't think you should be comparing women from today to the women of those eras. 

Women don't like to be treated like we're somehow more prone to be malicious or we're morally weaker. We also don't like to be judged based on our past actions. If we say that we no longer behave the way we used to, then we expect to be believed. And, if our actions prove us wrong, then it's understandable why the man we're with decides to dump us. But until our actions don't align with our words, we expect to be treated with respect, and that means trust.

Honestly, the girl sounds like she enjoys drama. If she does, then you're better of without her. But honestly, the least of your worries right now is this girl. What you need to address is the apparent lack of trust you seem to have with girls who have had more sexual history than you. It was good that you apologized for your hypocrisy, but after moving past this girl, it's important that you don't revert back to judging girls for things that you have done yourself.


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