# Recovery



## oregonmom

I got an idea while reading the Reconciliation thread in CWI to start a similar thread here for those that are in recovery. It seems like there are a quite a few of us, and I thought it might be helpful to have a place where we can share our triumphs and struggles and get support from others who are there now or have been there in the not too distant past.

I hesitate to make "rules" for the thread since we are really good at breaking them . But try to be respectful, supportive, gentle and more along the lines of sharing our experience, strength and hope than strictly advice.

This is for both sides, the alcoholic or addict and the spouses or family members. We have lots to learn from each other 

I guess I will go first since I started the thread 

I just finished my 12th Step! This is pretty amazing to me considering where I was not very long ago. I walked into my first Alanon meeting April 1st of last year (what a April Fools joke ) scared, royally pissed off and totally broken. I think I cried the whole meeting for the first month. A few things kept me coming back - one, my son loved going to the child care and begged to go back (I couldn't disappoint him ). Two, the woman who eventually became my sponsor was running the newcomers meeting and her husband had just had a relapse. I couldn't believe how together and sure of herself she was in the midst of crisis. I wanted that. Three, there was a man sitting next to me, a big, burly biker dude and double winner who gently touched my hand after I shared and was bawling my eyes out and told me he was so sorry that I was going through all this and it would get better. It really meant something to me that this tough guy could be so gentle and caring. It spoke to me about the program. It gave me hope for my H. Looking back at it today, I see very clearly how God was working in my life.

I have changed so much. Today when I look at myself in the mirror I see a strong, smart, beautiful woman who is capable of so much. I love myself for who I truly am and am willing to be myself. I can state my feelings and desires without thinking the world is going to end if I do. I see more positives than negatives and even when I'm in a giant pile of horse sh!t I can say at least I'm not in a pile of elephant sh!t . I see opportunity in the midst of crisis. I can let go of results, control and anxiety. I believe my higher power will lead me and am willing to let that happen. I understand myself and my reactions better. I am grateful for what I do have instead of focusing on what I don't. I am ok not being perfect. I am worthy of love and the life I want and I am capable of making that possible.

Life is not all unicorns and rainbows, but I'm making it through. It never will be "perfect", but I love knowing how much I can learn in the crap as long as I have the willingness to do so.

((((HUGS)))) to all of you


----------



## Ms. GP

Omg. What a great idea for a thread. I must say oregonmom you are one of my favorite people on this site. Thanks for sharing your story. It was really touching and beautiful. I too think you have a lot to offer to a lot of people. I have one question for you, if you don't mind. Is your husband still drinking? Is he in a recovery program? What prompted you to go to alanon? How are things with him now? Whoops I guess that's more than one question.  I have an enormous amount of respect for alanoners and I'd love the opportunity to pick each other's brains (so to speak) I'm an open book btw, so feel free to fire away at me too. Thanks.

My story. If you want to know the nitty gritty of what I was like, you can read my hubby's thread. His screen name is Gutpunch. Now I have a little over six months clean and sober, and have just finished my seventh step. I have an amazing sponsor and a home group that feels like family. I won't lie, I still have moments of morbid reflection of what I used to be like. But overall, I am very happy, calm, and supremely grateful. Hubby and I are both in IC and MC and I think he and I are starting to communicate really well. Right now I am staying home with the kids and I really love it. Oh well, gotta go do homework with the boy..


----------



## oregonmom

Hi Ms GP! I'm glad you found this post as I love your insight and willingness in recovery  I've always liked GP too, you are a lucky woman, but you know that . Thank you so much for your kind words.

My husband, like you, is a pill popper. Although, he will take whatever he can get . He has been sober since February of last year and is attending both AA and NA. He went to rehab almost six years ago, but did not stay sober very long. I think this is his longest period of sobriety. As you said in another thread, he was not willing that first time, just compliant.

I finally went to alanon because I was out of options. I tried everything else I could think of before that. I desperately did not want to go. I didn't like my experience during family times at my H's rehab - I felt picked on which is not good for someone who has been bullied most of their life. It was not gentle in any way. I was afraid alanon would be the same. My H also told me they would tell me to leave him there, and I was tired of hearing that. Thankfully, my experience there has been nothing like my fears. To be honest, I desperately wanted someone there to tell me how to leave him, and no one ever has. It was quite disappointing at first 

A little more background, I found the proof (pills) my H was using again in June 2011 even though I knew it was going on for a long long time before that. Without proof though, he just lied about it. Proof didn't turn out so great either, his using was all my fault, he made me feel like I was stuck and a piece of sh!t and I just continued playing the victim.

What I didn't know at the time was that he was in an affair. He was getting pills from a woman who was 24 years older than me and sleeping with her to keep the supply coming. I found out about the A in February 2012, and as much as I wanted to leave, I didn't have the strength. Did I mention what I great victim I was? 

Things are much better today. We have a lot of moments where I have been close to walking out the door. There is still a lot of work to be done for both of us. But we both respect each other much more now. There are much more good times than bad. My biggest problem is that I wish I had started my own recovery before I did. Honestly, I hated him when I started. I have had to rediscover the love I had for him. That is still hard a lot of times. It would have been much easier had I started when I still loved him with all my heart. That's all woulda, shoulda, coulda stuff though, and I try not to think about that, just accept it for what it is and keep moving forward from where I'm at.

All the best to you and GP!! I think you are doing great


----------



## oregonmom

Since I didn't see your edit before I replied, picking the other sides brain is an important thing I hope can come out of this thread. For me, it is hard to see it with my H sometimes because of all the history. I hear things much better from other addicts and alcoholics than I do him. I think the same probably goes for him. It is also easier for me to share with others than him. I hope all of us will gain more understanding of our spouses etc. when we are not so invested in the past sh!t.

A couple questions for you, how long were you using? Are you still really stubborn sometimes? (I am!). What made you turn from compliance to willingness? I know GP really put his foot down, but where there other things inside of you that also contributed?


----------



## Ms. GP

Sorry it took me so long to respond, It was a busy evening in the Punch house. I had homework with the boy, a continuing care meeting, football practice, and a pep rally. Whew!

I couldn't agree with you more about being able to hear something from someone else easier sometimes. I hope this is ok, but I suggested to GP that he might want to ask you some questions too because I'm sure you have both had similiar experiences and feelings. Right now, he is not interested in alanon which I think might really help him. I accept that I have no control over that. That's funny that your hubby thought they were gonna tell you to leave him. That thought never entered my mind. I'm sure there are a lot of misconceptions about alanon ( and AA for that matter). One I have heard is all they do is sit around and bash the alcoholics and addict in their lives. I thought that one was funny. My response to that one was, "Trust me, We're not that important dude." I have also heard from others that they too felt attacked at the family programs at rehab. That makes me sad because the fact they even went shows so much about their charachter to me. My own family did not go, or call me, or even participate in any of the family counseling. Which I will be honest hurt at the time, but I now feel was a blessing in disguise complements of HP. They are too sick and dysfunctional to help me or themselves, and I now see for right now the only solution is putting loving distance between us. (and I'm at peace with that decision)

I'm also surprised to hear you express remorse over not starting your recovery sooner. I can totally relate to what you are saying. I think a lot of times if I had went to treatment that my relapse may not of happened. But as painful as my relapse was for me and everyone around me, it was a very powerful learning experience that I think started the transition from compliance to willingness. I was working a crap program. (obviously right) I went to meetings, but I wasn't doing any step work or keeping regular contact with a sponsor. Heck, my sponsor at the time had only worked 4 steps in 3 years. When I relapsed, I picked up right where I left off (just like everybody says) and went straight down quick! I realized I was suffering from a case of terminal uniqueness. I was so miserable and broken but I thought if they were right about the relapse and picking up where I left off that mabye they were right about everything else. 

Another reason for the transition was deep down I felt utterly hopeless. I thought I was too damaged and too far gone for any of this recovery stuff to work. It wasn't until my ninth week of treatment and going through the motions hat I had what I can only call a spiritual experience. I had a crappy emotional exhausting day and I remember walking outside to go back to my cabin and thinking, "man this day sucked. Good thing they have yoga today because I could really use a yoga class." My jaw literally dropped and I just stood there shocked and dumbfounded. I just had a horrible day and I didn't even think about imbibing any chemicals. It felt like a miracle. I thought omg this stuff really works, and I have been on fire for it ever since. I know I have to put in the work to maintain it, but that is no problem because for the first time I didn't feel hopeless.

Oh and to answer your other questions, I used for about 2 years and I'm stubborn as heck!! ha ha Thanks again for starting this. This is really cool.


----------



## movealong

Hey there! Thought I would jump in and join you. Here is my story, and I have to stick to it. LOL! http://talkaboutmarriage.com/relationships-addiction/111282-remorse.html

I'm an AA and my wife is now an AlAnon. 

I guess I am taking the Steps slower than some and faster than others, lol. I am working on finishing step 4 and moving into action. Kind of difficult because my sponsor and I work so much, but we'll get it done.

Feel free to ask me any questions that aren't covered in my OP.


----------



## Ms. GP

Hey Movealong! So glad you're here. I'm also glad you and your wife are doing better. (Hate to say it, but I told you so.  jk) 4th step that's awesome!! Oh man, I can't wait for you to do your fifth step. You have to tell us all about. For me, it felt like I got to have a conversation with my higher power and he answered me in my sponsor's voice. Very powerful to say the least. I am curious to hear your take on compliance verse willingness. I'm also wondering if you have noticed your wife acting out of fear? (Fear that is very understandable I must say) Like trying to control very seemingly small things because she knows she can't control the big ones. I'm also curious if Oregonmom has any feedback on this one. Is there anything that we can do to help alleviate these fears? Because I know I can't always agree with him on every little thing, because I will ride that train straight to resentment town, and I like to get tore up in resentment town!!  No thanks. Ha ha


----------



## movealong

Ms. GP said:


> Hey Movealong! So glad you're here. I'm also glad you and your wife are doing better. (Hate to say it, but I told you so.  jk) 4th step that's awesome!! Oh man, I can't wait for you to do your fifth step. You have to tell us all about. For me, it felt like I got to have a conversation with my higher power and he answered me in my sponsor's voice. Very powerful to say the least.


I am looking forward to it as well!!



Ms. GP said:


> I am curious to hear your take on compliance verse willingness.


That is a tough one. I think it depends on the circumstances/situation:

- rock bottom (self) walking through the doors on your own = willingness

- legal (law or because of marriage) = compliance

That is not to say that compliance can't or won't become willingness, it just doesn't start out that way. I know several AA's including my sponsor that started out in compliance and ended up becoming willing. 



Ms. GP said:


> I'm also wondering if you have noticed your wife acting out of fear? (Fear that is very understandable I must say) Like trying to control very seemingly small things because she knows she can't control the big ones.


Her main controlling pattern was communication. She only wanted to talk about mundane, ordinary, things until she was ready to open up bit by bit.



Ms. GP said:


> I'm also curious if Oregonmom has any feedback on this one. Is there anything that we can do to help alleviate these fears? Because I know I can't always agree with him on every little thing, because I will ride that train straight to resentment town, and I like to get tore up in resentment town!!  No thanks. Ha ha


I have been using all of the tools I was given in AA to deal with resentments as they come up. Because I am able to deal with them quickly, they don't fester and become big blow outs later. 

Resentments are like nitroglycerin attached to a long, old, fuse. You don't know if the fuse is going to last long enough to let you regain composure, or if it is going to burn fast and explode in your face. Just being able to deal with resentments has alleviated a lot of stress that would normally have been transferred on to her.


----------



## GutPunch

Ms. GP said:


> Like trying to control very seemingly small things because she knows she can't control the big ones.


Jeez....I just want our boy to have a decent breakfast before he goes to school. That's it.


----------



## oregonmom

Thanks for your response Ms GP! No worries about being busy, we all are . I am a SAHM myself, and I still find it amazing that I feel like I have all this time, but then I don't. Maybe it is still that superwoman complex - I can do it all at all times!!. It doesn't bother me as much any more though, it's not the end of the world if it doesn't all get done.

Of course GP is welcome here! I've made the suggestion to go to alanon a few times to him lol. He seems to be a pretty strong guy, and alanon does kind of have a stigma of old ladies knitting and b!tching . I feel lucky that I have found some really great meetings to go to. Well, still lots of knitting, less b!tching . Newbies can tend to sometimes, but that's understandable, lots have held it all in for so long. My H says the same goes for AA.

Thank you for sharing your awakening, that was really great to read! That first time around sounds a lot like my H's. I love his first sponsor a lot, but he had the philosophy of letting my H come to him and my H needed someone who was going to hold his feet to the fire. I love that yoga story!! I guess my first little awakening came about a month in. I'm a golfer, and I was playing in a tournament. My partner and I were playing awesome, and the ladies we were playing were holing shots from the fairway, hitting trees and ending up perfect, holing impossible putts, it was ridiculous! After one of those impossible putts, my partner starts swearing up a storm to me and is pissed all to hell, and I just started laughing. What were we going to do? Pull a Tonya Harding and bust them in the knee with a club? :rofl: That's what my program was all about - I was doing the best I could. I couldn't control what they were doing. No matter what I did, my preferred outcome wasn't always going to happen. Let go, move on and keep doing the best I can. HP works in mysterious ways 

Something I have noticed as I write, lots of smiles and laughter in stuff that can seem pretty crappy. That is one of my favorite things I have gained, my sense of humor back


----------



## oregonmom

Hi Movealong!! I'm so glad you are here and doing well! I'd love to write more now, but duty of a little road trip calls . Will be back later. Hi to you too GP!


----------



## Ms. GP

What a great story about the golfing. I mean for real what can you do? Are you gonna expend all this mental energy on something you can't control? Or are you going to choose to be happy? I love that!! Yes. I have certainly regained my sense of humor back too. It gets me in to trouble sometimes though.  Oh well, progress not perfection right?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ms. GP

oregonmom said:


> Thanks for your response Ms GP! No worries about being busy, we all are . I am a SAHM myself, and I still find it amazing that I feel like I have all this time, but then I don't. Maybe it is still that superwoman complex - I can do it all at all times!!. It doesn't bother me as much any more though, it's not the end of the world if it doesn't all get


I hear you about the time and super woman thing. I never thought in my wildest dream that I would have a job where I had to say things like, "don't poot on your sister!!"  Good times.


----------



## TBT

Such a great idea for a topic oregonmom.I'm many years into my own recovery now and I just want to wish you and everyone who comes here the very best in all your journeys.


----------



## oregonmom

I just read through your thread Movealong, it sounds like you two are doing so much better! I am so happy for both of you 

A few things that stuck out to me - I was a lot like your wife in the early stages . Me sitting on my victim throne, I didn't want my H to think I was doing jack sh!t for him. He's the one who put us in that situation, he's the one who screwed me up so royally, and I certainly didn't want to praise him for stepping up and doing what he "should have" been doing all along. How wrong I was, it took a while for me to realize that all tho.

I wish I could speed everything up too! Unfortunately, no matter how willing both parties may be, it takes a long time. It took a long time for it to get that bad. Not giving up till the miracle happens, that helps a lot. I also try to think it won't take as long to fix as it did to screw up, so that's an improvement, right?

Acting out of fear, I have done that a lot. It has taking quite a while for me to just stop and think what is causing my action or reaction. If it is fear, I stop and call my sponsor or a friend and work out something better. I love these two Alanon sayings (maybe they are AA ones too?): Don't just do something, sit there. FEAR=False Evidence Appearing Real. Most of my fears are unfounded really, I will stress about it, then once I do it, it is not that bad. Whodda thunk? . Resentments really are worse than fear. I still tread pretty carefully, but not terrified.


----------



## oregonmom

GutPunch said:


> Jeez....I just want our boy to have a decent breakfast before he goes to school. That's it.


Pork chops! Don't forget about the pork chops!!!


----------



## Ms. GP

I haven't heard that saying about fear. That's a good one. I like the expression self centered fear because if I look at how a fear is controlling my life and affecting those around me as selfish, I'm more likely to do something about it. I agree resentments are very toxic, but I think a lot of them are set in motion by fear. For example, I have a huge fear of turning out like my parents and I also have a fear of abandonment. It created this weird sense of obligation towards spending time with them. Well the more time I spent with them, the more I allowed myself to be hurt by them, and the more I became sucked into their dysfunction. I am not healthy enough yet to not let their actions affect me. (I'm getting there though) The deeper my resentments grew. I see know how my fear set all of this in motion now and am now able to back away without feeling guilty. Does this make any sense?


----------



## LongWalk

Good thread!


----------



## Ms. GP

oregonmom said:


> Pork chops! Don't forget about the pork chops!!!


Ha ha. Lol. Actually the argument was about bacon!! We had a two hour argument about bacon!! I'm not even kidding here folks!! We are far from out of the woods. Ha ha. Oh well.

What's up long walk? Glad you're here buddy. I agree. Great thread.


----------



## oregonmom

Ms. GP said:


> I haven't heard that saying about fear. That's a good one. I like the expression self centered fear because if I look at how a fear is controlling my life and affecting those around me as selfish, I'm more likely to do something about it. I agree resentments are very toxic, but I think a lot of them are set in motion by fear. For example, I have a huge fear of turning out like my parents and I also have a fear of abandonment. It created this weird sense of obligation towards spending time with them. Well the more time I spent with them, the more I allowed myself to be hurt by them, and the more I became sucked into their dysfunction. I am not healthy enough yet to not let their actions affect me. (I'm getting there though) The deeper my resentments grew. I see know how my fear set all of this in motion now and am now able to back away without feeling guilty. Does this make any sense?


Makes perfect sense to me. Abandonment is a huge fear for me too. I have had very few "real" friends in my life. I have been very good at being whoever you wanted me to be, so much so I didn't know who I really was. Even if someone liked me, I wouldn't believe they really liked me because I was being someone else, and they wouldn't like who I really was. The program has really helped me with that. My sponsor loves me and thinks I'm wonderful even after steps 5 and 8. What a relief! It has made me feel like I can be my authentic self with everyone, and if they don't like me, oh well. Not everyone is meant to be friends, not everyone has personalities that mesh, and there is nothing wrong with that. It might actually save me from pain down the road.

I am dealing with a pretty big fear right now. My H did something that is a deal breaker for me about six weeks ago. He knew it was, and his explanation was "I knew you wouldn't like it, but I was in an uncomfortable position and you are stronger than she is so I figured you would get over it easier than her"  So many things wrong with this. Then he defended his position till the death and all those pre-recovery things started happening again - I'm the unreasonable one, I need to just get over it and deal with it, im trying to control him. And the buts...I hate buts!!! Had to tell him he can do as he chooses, but I respect myself enough to not live with deal breakers. He still tried to talk me out of it, so I had to spell it out. I was not ok with it, so he had to decide if our marriage or this bull was more important. After being "shocked" I felt this way, he agreed it would not happen again. 

It wasn't so much the actual thing that happened, it was what happened afterwards. The same blame game, the same no taking responsibility, the same "you're the crazy one" crap. Just say you screwed up and what you're going to do to help fix it and what you'll try to do better next time. Call your sponsor! Follow the program! Arrgg. But hey, I'm proud of myself I didn't say any of that sh!t to him, just my sponsor and another friend and didn't try to control what I wanted him to do or say.

The good news is he has been much more open with me about things since, and loving, and he believes me. I still feel fearful tho that he hasn't followed thru with what he said he would do and has beat around the bush instead, and I'm fearful to just say, "so how'd it go with all that?". It seems so simple and silly not to do. So why am I so afraid? I think it is just not hearing what I want to hear, erasing the other progress, not wanting to start WWIII. Fear has definitely been the hardest thing to let go of.


----------



## Ms. GP

I think you are afraid because it takes vulnerablity to set boundaries in a way. If you draw a line in the sand and he crosses it, I'm sure you probably will feel in a way like he doesn't love you and that will hurt. I don't know the situation but a deal breaker sounds pretty bad. It sounds like he on a subconcious level at least knows what your buttons are and was pushing them pretty hard, but it sounds like you didn't give him the same response so he had to give a different one. I hope this doesn't hurt your feelings, but you in a way taught him over the years these buttons would work. We all do that with our partners myself included. We addicts are a manipulative bunch and just because we get clean doesn't make that go away. But ultimately, it's his crap not yours. You stood your ground. Good for you. His response is his. I often feel like shouldn't common sense tell this person what my boundaries are, but I'm learning it doesn't work that way. Sorry he's being such a turd though.


----------



## oregonmom

That doesn't hurt my feelings at all, it is totally true. I have always folded like a wet paper bag, so why wouldn't I again? That is why he said he was shocked that I said no buena, I'd rather walk. And I do believe he believes me now, maybe not 100%, but more than he did. Progress 

The deal breaker was exchanging texts with "I love yous" in them to a woman in his group. She did start it. He says she needed support, everyone does that in the program, he only did it because he didn't want to hurt her feelings. We've had this come up like a year ago with a different woman and I said I don't like it, deal breaker. But yes, he thought he could talk me out of it cause he always has. I've also made very clear that I don't care if he hugs women at meetings, or talks to them, even says love you, but my line is one on one interaction. I trust the group will hold him accountable if they see something inappropriate. One on one, no one is. I think it is pretty common knowledge about 13th stepping and our literature makes it clear males with males, females with females when it comes to those close relationships. I'm still looking for someone, anyone, in either program to say I'm unreasonable about this (except him lol)

Since then tho, his exAP came in to his work. No interaction, she was just buying some stuff. He called his sponsor, then me immediately. I probably never would have found out, but he told me anyway because that is what I have asked. So a big step. As far as this woman in his group, I did say people only know what is ok with you if you tell them, and if she doesn't know it makes him uncomfortable (which he claimed) she will probably do it again. He said he would tell her that, but he also has strong Alanon people pleaser traits thanks to his FOO. He's probably afraid, just like me. He will shoulder the burden just in case it might hurt her. I don't want to come of as critical or pushy if he's trying. Sometimes this sh!t seems so complicated


----------



## Ms. GP

Well if it is any consolation most addicts are pretty insecure and will almost always choose the path of least resistance when they can get away with it. I have what might sound like a weird question. Please indulge me. Was the woman from NA or AA? 

I totally agree with you btw, but I have been put in your husband's awkward position too. I didn't say it back though. It was someone from the old group I used to attend before I went to treatment who I haven't spoken to since I really got sober( man that's pathetic  ) GP was very upset and I completely understand. It looks terrible. I think I took the chicken way out too. I just said GP and the kids and I are great. Tell you wife I said hi. Gotta go. I made a point when I changed groups to not make any male friends. Heck the men and women in my new group don't even sit together unless the meeting is really crowded. I guess I kinda see both sides but you are absolutely right he shouldn't have said it back, and I don't think you will find anyone to disagree with you fwiw.


----------



## oregonmom

Thanks a lot for that reply Ms GP, that really helps a lot. She is in both his AA and NA groups. We live in a pretty small town (5500) and his NA group is only about 6 regulars, so they all are pretty close.

That path of least resistance really made me think of another fear that we've all been talking about; I'm afraid of compliance. I fear him taking that least resistant path because my eyes see it as just complying and not seeing the bigger picture. That is me laying expectations on him to do things the way I would because that is the right way to do it. Oops . But who is to say he won't see the big picture? Like Movealong said, compliance can become willingness. It doesn't need to be my way or my timetable.


----------



## LongWalk

Maybe I should go to some group


----------



## Ms. GP

LongWalk said:


> Maybe I should go to some group


Ha ha . Well the only reqirement for AA is a desire to stop drinking, but it helps if you have lots of embarrassing stories about waking up in the front yard in a pile of your own puke or taking the last sip out of a beer can that's been in your front yard for a week and isn't even yours. 

P.S. Both of these stories I have actually heard in a meeting, and what's hilarious is when everyone just laughs, shakes their head, and says, "yup. Been there."


----------



## Ms. GP

I think compliance can definitely lead to willingness. It did for me anyways. My question is what makes you think he is just being compliant? I think service work is one of the biggest indicators of willingness. When I was in compliance mode I just did the bare minimum to get everyone off my back. Heck, the only reason I even went to meetings and got my first sponsor was because I was tired of lying about it to my therapist. Even though I was lying to her about other stuff. Man, I was such a mess!! 

P.s. I don't lie to her any more. It's kinda a waste of money!  ha ha


----------



## LongWalk

I can totally identify with addictions. My father's religious mania around his projects. These were a form of addiction. They consumed money alienated people. Destroyed relationship. Except for his brief cigar and pipe period, my father never drank more than a 5 or 6 glasses of wine. All the drug he had piled up at the office. He never popped any pills. But he ate compulsively wolfing down food. This behavior forms that create reward systems. They are addictions.

I am an addict. I will never shoot up heroin but I can imagine doing it. I don't think the high would be enough to solve my problems.


----------



## oregonmom

Ms. GP said:


> I think compliance can definitely lead to willingness. It did for me anyways. My question is what makes you think he is just being compliant? I think service work is one of the biggest indicators of willingness. When I was in compliance mode I just did the bare minimum to get everyone off my back. Heck, the only reason I even went to meetings and got my first sponsor was because I was tired of lying about it to my therapist. Even though I was lying to her about other stuff. Man, I was such a mess!!
> 
> P.s. I don't lie to her any more. It's kinda a waste of money!  ha ha


Ha! Yeah, lying to the therapist is a waste of money . You are definitely not the first person to do that tho!

That fear of compliance is up in my head mostly, a bit irrational and me being all high and mighty 

My sponsor says she tells her sponsor a lot "I'm doing this harder than he is!" and I definitely relate to that. I'm holding him to my standard, that he should be working his program like I'm working mine, and that is my own stinking thinking . The stuff that bothers me - he doesn't meet with his sponsor regularly, his step work and books can sit there unmoved for weeks on end, he will skip his meetings more than I like to see, when he is in sticky situations (like the texting incident) he doesn't call anyone and tries to resolve it on his own, till it's not working.

He is the treasurer at his NA meeting, so he holds a service position which is good. Of course, he was the treasurer at his old meeting when he was using (speaking of lying lol). A huge amount tho is me fearing the past will repeat itself and not letting go of it. It is much different this time, and I see that, it's just not perfect damn it . A lot of stubbornness on both of our parts.


----------



## oregonmom

Hi longwalk!

I definitely see that addiction tendency in the stories about your father. Food is a big addiction for a lot of people, and I think it is more accepted than others in a way. I mean, how often do you hear someone say I felt sh!tty so I got a big bucket of ice cream and people think that's ok, if you said I felt sh!tty so I stuck a needle in my arm they would say "you can't do that!"

Al-Anon is really easy to go to too, you just need to know anyone that has a problem with an addiction. I think most of us do, be it a family member, co-worker, friend, whatever. We welcome everyone


----------



## movealong

I will be going over my 5th step with my sponsor next weekend. I am looking forward to moving into action.

I have one resentment that may hold me back, but I am working on it with my sponsor and my higher power. It is a resentment I just don't know if I am ready to give up. It is the deepest seeded resentment I have and has been the fuel for a lot of my success in my work life, but it is also responsible for a lot of my personal issues and alcoholism. 

I am praying daily that I will be able to let go of it.


----------



## Ms. GP

Oregonmom, 
I have put some thought into what you were saying, and here is my 2 cents fwiw. I think your fears are completely understandable. On the bright side, I'm actually quite impressed that your husband is the treasure. I' m sure at alanon meetings you guys just elect a treasurer and don't give it a second thought. ( must be nice, lucky  ) Addicts have a hard time trusting other addicts with their money for reasons that I think are pretty obvious. . The fact that he wad able to regain this position after a relapse speaks to me to what opinion his peers have of him and his program. But, I don't live with him. What does your gut say? Did you notice any odd behaviors last time before he went out? Is he doing the same things? What does your gut say?


----------



## Ms. GP

Movealong,
I hear you on the resentment thing. I like the expression holding on to resentments is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. It just a luxury that people like us can't afford. 
Here is my experience with my two biggest resentments. My two biggies were towards my parents and myself. They were both lifted from me during the 5th step which was pretty cool. I had a very abusive childhood and my parents have never and probably will never apologize or take any responsibility for it. Heck, they have rewritten history to where I honestly believe they don't remember it. I also resented myself for everything I had done while I was using. (the affair and stealing drugs just to name a few) But I realized during my fifth step I would never have done those things in recovery. I was sick and to be able to accept the fact that I was sick, I had to accept the fact that my parents are also very sick people. My part in that resentment was that I continued to have contact with them and let them continue to hurt me. I have since created some loving distance, and I have never been happier. You see, it is hard to hold onto a resentment when you see your part in it. I think you be amazed next weekend by how different you feel. I' m excited for you.


----------



## oregonmom

Hi Movealong,

That is great that you are through step 4, it's a doozie 

I too have one resentment I couldn't even write about. Maybe TMI here, but I trust all of you  I was raped at 16 by someone I only kind of knew but I trusted because he was one of my closest friends roommate. I couldn't even write his name at the top of the page, just called him rapist, and that page is still blank in my journal. I did talk about it with my sponsor and she told me it will come, sometimes certain people or things just take a little longer and it doesn't have to stop me from moving forward with what I did have.

I was on FB a few weeks ago and that friend posted something I wanted to comment on. So I click on it and the first comment is from that guy. I had that pit in my stomach and a little bit of a freak out for a minute. Just seeing his name sucked. Mostly I was pissed my friend was FB friends with him, how dare he! Once I stopped and thought about it all though, I never told my friend it was a rape, so how was he supposed to know? At the time said friend was unhappy I "disappeared" with this guy, and figured he took advantage of me but just because I was young and he never knew what really happened. I just expected him to. Quite frankly, it's not even my friend's business. I don't need to start a big campaign that this guy is a POS and no one should ever talk to him again. It is something I have to resolve within myself. I feel a lot better about things today, not so much that I can journal about it a lot, but it was actually a step forward because I could look at things a little differently this time around. It will come in time as long as I'm open to it.

Like Ms GP, myself was also a huge one. Felt a little insurmountable. As I made my amends in step 9 tho, every time I felt like I was forgiving myself a little more. Once I was at the end, there wasn't much more to do for just me. And like she said, I was really sick and I wouldn't have done those things if I hadn't been. My HP has forgiven me, and I try to remember that too.

Yikes, that turned into a novel (which I'm really good at ), sorry. It felt good to get it out tho and I hope something in there will help you 

Good work :smthumbup:


----------



## oregonmom

Thanks again Ms GP 

My gut says things are different, and I like that. I've dismissed gut feelings a lot in the past, now I look at them as my HP giving me a little tap on the shoulder and saying pay attention . No odd behaviors, just not perfection yet lol 

You are right that it means something they have elected him. This is a different group than before his relapse, but I also have faith they know what has happened before, so what you say still stands. Their last treasurer keeps "forgetting" to bring the money and is MIA a lot, so they are putting a lot of faith in him. And yeah, in AlAnon if someone stands for a position we pretty much just give it to them


----------



## soulseer

Congratulations to all here on their strength. 

I am the son of an alcoholic in a family with history of alcoholism and tobacco addiction. 

I have come to realise I have the potential to become an alcoholic and have recently stopped flirting with alcohol. 

I don't want to open a door my father could not close.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## oregonmom

soulseer said:


> Congratulations to all here on their strength.
> 
> I am the son of an alcoholic in a family with history of alcoholism and tobacco addiction.
> 
> I have come to realise I have the potential to become an alcoholic and have recently stopped flirting with alcohol.
> 
> I don't want to open a door my father could not close.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hi soulseer and welcome!

Wow, that is a really big realization and I applaud you for seeing it! Sounds like you picked a very appropriate user name 

((((HUGS))))


----------



## soulseer

Thanks lol. The trick is to remain convinced and never flirt. 

'Never in the hand' seems a good way
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ms. GP

Wow soulseer. Glad your here. What is funny it sounds like you just worked step 1 and didn't even know it. That's great. Step one says, we admitted we were powerless over alcohol and that our lives had become unmanageable, and you didn't even have to suffer all of the horrible consequences and unmanageability. That's pretty smart in my opinion. Ha ha

Oregonmom. Thanks for sharing about that resentment. That was really brave of you. I'm in awe really. My sponsor shared a story about her own mother being kidnapped, beaten, and raped on her way to work one day, and she told me something I will never forget. She said I will never understand (at least on this earth) why bad things happen to good people, but I do know one thing for sure. That is not God. He didn't cause that nor did he abandon my mother when that happen. He is the reason she survived that awful tragedy, he didn't cause it, and one day he will use her to help someone else going through the same thing. I just got chills and tears in my eyes as I wrote this because she said it with such conviction. It was absolutely beautiful.


----------



## soulseer

Ms. GP said:


> Wow soulseer. Glad your here. What is funny it sounds like you just worked step 1 and didn't even know it. That's great. Step one says, we admitted we were powerless over alcohol and that our lives had become unmanageable, and you didn't even have to suffer all of the horrible consequences and unmanageability.


I am not sure I am completely unscathed in the consequences department. I have a lot of my fathers alcoholism baggage to deal with. Confidence/depression can be an issue , workaholism too - to not fall into same financial troubles . 

On the plus side I know what alcoholism does to marriages through my father and saw little signs in my own marriage that were red flags to rather avoid. 

Life is a journey. 

Thanks for your positive comments Oregonmom & Ms GP.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ms. GP

You mean to tell me, people who don't drink aren't perfect with perfect marriages. Well crap, that really screws up all my self loathing!! Thanks a lot. 

I wanted to share another funny with you too. In AA we have two names for people that aren't alcoholics. If they are normal, we call them earth people. If they are crazy, we call them untreated alanons. 
I think you guys are definitely a bunch of earth people. Ha ha

Yeah oregonmom, elections are pretty hilarious. We do fine until they get to treasurer. Then all the air gets sucked out of the romm and our collective buttholes clench until it's over. I can't tell you how many times I've been in a meeting and someone will share I thought about taking all of the money in the basket but I didn't do it. Good times.


----------



## oregonmom

Soulseer,

Alcoholism tears through the family like a tornado, and yes, few are left unscathed. Like Ms GP said tho, recognition is the first step and not letting it run your life is huge. 

I'm a "normie" when it comes to alcohol and drugs, but I sure tried to find one of them that worked to make me feel better . Control, perfection and people pleasing are my "drugs of choice" that worked for a while. Lack of confidence is big for a lot of the family members of alcoholics...I mean we tried and tried and tried everything we could and it didn't work, and even when we did do something right it doesn't always get acknowledged if it wasn't perfect.

I like to think of sports when it comes to perfection and confidence. Baseball players bat .300 and they are considered great hitters - they fail 70% of the time to get a hit! If you shoot 60% from the field in basketball, you are a great shooter - failure 40% of the time! Whatever sport you like, I'm sure you can find a parallel


----------



## LongWalk

An aunt of mine, actually a first cousin, but she was the illegitimate daughter of my aunt and older so she got classified as an aunt, is dying of lung cancer. She smoked. Her mother died of lung cancer. She was a beautiful person and she smoked. And her husband died of emphysema, and he smoked. And my uncle smoked, rolled his own, he was an old drill sergeant in British army who fought in WII died of cancer. My mother smoked when she was pregnant with me. But she quit.

I struggle with nicotine, but I have beaten it. However, the depression I suffer from emotional abuse is far worse than an cigarette problem. I have seen people in films drink to kill their pain. Drinking doesn't work or I would consider it. It is only temporary. Heroin would only be temporary. All addictions only give a momentary escape, otherwise they would be great.


----------



## oregonmom

On the topic of HP (higher power) and if He ever abandoned us...

It certainly can feel that way sometimes. I sure thought He abandoned me when it came to all the sh!t I went though with my H. The affair snapped me out of that as crazy as it sounds. My first thought was God is giving me my way out of this marriage. That isn't what I feel now, I feel God was giving me a way out of the sh!tty life I was leading. Me, myself, my life. That I have choices (what? Choices? No way! ). I recognize that gut feeling as my gentle tap on the shoulder from him. When I didn't listen, well that is when he had to send in the meteor to wake me up to a better life ahead. 

Bad sh!t does happen to good people sometimes. But I do think there is always a reason, and there are times that reason is harder to find than others. I choose to look at it now not that I was a victim back when I was a kid, but that I was victimized, if that makes any sense. Being a victim means I choose to continue to live in that, being victimized means I can learn and turn it into something more positive, even if that just means I can help someone else going though the same thing.


----------



## Ms. GP

Well LW, my mom suffers from depression and has called it her drug of choice before. She will sometimes lament she wishes she had gotten help for it sooner. I have suffered from depression as well, but it was all drug related. So I can relate on some level, but not totally. I have felt hopeless, exhausted, and lethargic, and it sucks. I remember feeling like I was walking through mud all of the time, and nothing brought me joy. The first time I quit using was the worst. I had lost my coping mechanism, and had nothing to replace it.

But the second time was completely different. In treatment, I got to work on my recovery and family of origin issues 24 hours a day for 3 months. I have also been in therapy for about a year and a half. Both of which have helped me tremendously. One of my biggest fears was turning out like my parents. What I realized was that by asking for help and looking and talking about the.things I didn't want to, I was nothing like them. They think they are fine and will probably never ask for help. 

If I were you, any time you are feeling hopeless and too damaged, I would tell myself that is what my diseased mind wants me to think.

Oh and oregonmom. That was beautiful. I have nothing to add. I definitely don't want to follow Shakespeare.on that.one!


----------



## oregonmom

Longwalk,

I definitely relate to depression, both myself and with my parents. My mom has a thyroid disease that went undiagnosed for quite a while, and that made her a bit unstable. She is on the right meds now so that has pretty much gone away. I learned to walk on eggshells when i was younger tho. Both can play the martyr, although that is better once they went through therapy themselves. My mom can still do it tho, and I will say something like, sorry about that and change the subject. I don't like hearing negativity cause it is so easy to fall into it myself when I do. Depression is a constant struggle, but I've found surrounding myself with generally happy, positive people rubs off on me. 

Nicotine is tough to break, I don't like that I'm a smoker. I never understood people who quit when they were pregnant then started again, yet that is exactly what I did. Go figure. So I guess I do have an addiction to a substance . And caffeine, I love my coffee and soda. One thing at a time tho I suppose.


----------



## oregonmom

I just read today's reading from "The Language of Letting Go" which is the daily reader from Melody Beattie who wrote "Co-dependent No More". It spoke to me so much I had to post 
I think it goes for both sides of addiction.

*Self-Approval*

Most of us want to be liked. We want people to think of us as nice, friendly, kind, and loving. Most of us want the approval of others.

Since childhood, some of us have been trying to get approval, trying to get people to like us and think highly of us. We may be afraid people will leave us if they disapprove of our actions. We may look for approval from people who have none to give. We may not know that we're lovable now and can learn to approve of ourselves.

In order to live happily, to live consistently with the way our HP wants us to live, and to tap into a way of life that is in harmony with the universe, we need to let go of our extreme need for approval. These unmet needs for approval and love from our past give others control over us today. These needs can prevent us from acting in our best interest and being true to ourselves.

We can only approve of ourselves. In the end, that's the only approval that counts.

_Today, I will let go of my need for approval and my need to be liked. I will replace them with a need to like and approve of myself. I will enjoy the surprise I find when I do this. The people who count, including myself, will respect me when I am true to myself._


----------



## Ms. GP

I have to second that one about surrounding yourself with positive people. That is a big one for me. They have saying in AA to stick with the winners, but heck I think that applies to everyone. I really had to practice that in treatment. There were some girls that just created chaos out of nothing. They were always crying about someone being mean to them. They were exhausting!! Most of them left against medical advice too. Go figure. At first I was the idiot trying to save them, but my awesome counselor caught on and gave me an assignment. I couldn't help anyone or listen to anyone's problems for a week. My number of friends dropped by 2/3 ( most of those girls dropped me like a hot potato) but the one's left were awesome. It was very eye opening for sure.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## movealong

It's a good morning to be sober.


----------



## Ms. GP

One of my buddies from treatment relapsed for the second time in 3 months. We weren't that close but I am pretty close with her bff.The girl has been to treatment 14 times and she is only 36. This sucks. I think she thinks she is hopeless and it has become a self fulfilling prophecy of sorts. It's sad. She seemed so happy in treatment. I'll never forget going to an indoor trampoline place and her jumping around like a little kid with an ear to ear grin screaming, "this is the best day of my life!!" I know this disease is real but I don't have to like it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## oregonmom

Ms. GP said:


> One of my buddies from treatment relapsed for the second time in 3 months. We weren't that close but I am pretty close with her bff.The girl has been to treatment 14 times and she is only 36. This sucks. I think she thinks she is hopeless and it has become a self fulfilling prophecy of sorts. It's sad. She seemed so happy in treatment. I'll never forget going to an indoor trampoline place and her jumping around like a little kid with an ear to ear grin screaming, "this is the best day of my life!!" I know this disease is real but I don't have to like it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm so sorry to hear that Ms GP, that sucks . It's ok to hate this disease. I don't know if this will help or not, but it took one of my H's co workers 12 times for it to stick, he's been sober almost 15 years now. Hang in there, it sucks to watch people we care about relapse but hopefully she will get there in time if she wants it. (((HUGS)))


----------



## movealong

Sorry to hear about the relapse. It is a good reminder for me that I have to work at this every day.


----------



## movealong

SEPTEMBER 12th
-----------------------------------------------------------------

*I AM RESPONSIBLE* 

_For the readiness to take the full consequences of our past acts, and to take responsibility for the well-being of others at the same time, is the very spirit of Step Nine._


TWELVE STEPS AND TWELVE TRADITIONS, p. 87 

In recovery, and through the help of Alcoholics Anonymous, I learn that the very thing I fear is my freedom. It comes from my tendency to recoil from taking responsibility for anything: I deny, I ignore, I blame, I avoid. Then one day, I look, I admit, I accept. The freedom, the healing and the recovery I experience is in the looking, admitting and accepting. I learn to say, "Yes, I am responsible." When I can speak those words with honesty and sincerity, then I am free. 


From the book Daily Reflections © Copyright 1990 by Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc.


----------



## Ms. GP

Thanks guys. I just had to get it out, and I knew you would understand. I'm not gonna let it drag me down, but sometimes I just have to say this disease sucks because it does. I understand why relapses happen, because heck I've done it but I guess in some ways I don't still. I remember another time I went hiking with her and her bff. We were done with the hike and we were waiting for the rest of the gals to catch up. So we just sat there quietly for a few minutes just admiring the beautiful scenery that was all around us. It was one of those if you wanna see the mind of god go look outside, all is right with the world, kinda moments. We just looked at each other and said, "I am so glad I got to see this and so glad I got to be fully present and aware enough to fully appreciate it." I know she felt that. I just don't fully understand how you can go back out after that. You don't have those kind of experiences when you're using. Well on second thought you do, but they are not real, wear off, leave a nasty hangover, and are not as meaningful.


----------



## oregonmom

Thanks for that Movealong, that really spoke to me . It is so easy to go into victimhood and "I did x because you did z", but our actions are solely our responsibility. 

Ms GP, I totally get what you are saying about why would you want to go back once you have really appreciated joy in your life. It's the same for us in that when you are so consumed by obsession and control you fail to truly enjoy the good stuff. It is fleeting. I think for the people that chronically relapse, they haven't gotten to that place of inner peace and are still living in a bit of denial. A big breakthrough for my H was accepting how sh!tty it made him feel that his real dad basically abandoned him. For years it was yeah that sucks but my step dad was a better father, I had a better life than I would have with my real dad so what does it matter. Well, it did matter, he just stuffed that way down inside and it is eventually going to bubble up to the surface. Justification that there shouldnt be pain instead of saying that hurts and its ok it does. Now that he has accepted it, he generally seems more at peace. I think that passage from Movealong nailed it, fear of my freedom to be free.


----------



## Ms. GP

Alright guys this is too weird, you both nailed it and didn't know. Move along, I had to go to court today. Talk about accepting responsibility for your actions huh? I was actually interviewed for the pretrial diversion program. Which means if I keep basically doing what I'm doing, I won't have a record. I was accepted BTW. Man that was nerve racking!! I just told the truth and they asked me a few questions. I was done in 20 minutes. They didn't even make me leave the room to take a vote. They accepted me on the spot. Whew!!! Big relief!! Thanks for that man.

Oregonmom. You nailed it!!! That is so weird!! I get it now. The girl was in my trauma group. She made it very apparent that she didn't seethe point of talking about her past. She had a very aabusive childhood from what little she did share. I could tell she was holding back. She won't let herself grieve her past and it's like poison inside of her slowly killing her. I get it. That really helped me more than you know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## oregonmom

Yay!!! I am so glad court went great 

There is a really fine line to walk on grieving and acceptance. On one hand, you don't want to live in the past and let it drag you down, but in order to have true acceptance you need to grieve. I was watching Good Will Hunting the other night, and this reminds me of that scene where Robin Williams tells him it's not his fault, and he says "I know", and he keeps repeating it until Will breaks down crying. Acceptance of grief, good stuff


----------



## oregonmom

Hi everyone!

I'm going to be out of town for the next week so I won't be able to post a whole lot. I will be reading as much as I can though as I'm sure I will need some of the serenity you all give me 

I have been really excited for this trip for a long time, but it also gives me some nerves. I was the one named to be "in charge" which makes me laugh - I'm trying to NOT be so in charge . I guess it will be good practice for me to use what I've learned and my tools to find that place of saying something when I should but not being a dictator. So far it has gone well, I just hope we will all like each other still after six days together all the time 

((((HUGS))))


----------



## movealong

Congrats Ms. GP! I am excited and hopeful for you with this great news.  Keep coming back 'cause it works if you work it!! 

oregonmom - try to enjoy the trip! And remember, you may be "in charge" of the trip, but remember trying to be a director can get you in trouble. I've heard actors say the best directors are the ones that get their input, genuinely listen to their concerns, and ensure that they feel like they are "part of the process". Be a good director! LOL!


----------



## movealong

SEPTEMBER 13th

*REPAIRING THE DAMAGE*

_Good judgment, a careful sense of timing, courage and prudence – these are the qualities we shall need when we take Step Nine.	_

*TWELVE STEPS AND TWELVE TRADITIONS, p. 83*

To make amends can be viewed two ways: first, that of repairing damage, for if I have damaged my neighbor's fence, I "make a mend," and that is a direct amend; the second way is by modifying my behavior, for if my actions have harmed someone, I make a daily effort to cause no further harm. I "mend my ways," and that is an indirect amend. Which is the best approach? The only right approach, provided that I am causing no further harm in so doing, is to do both. If harm is done, then I simply "mend my ways." To take action in this manner assures me of making honest amends.

From the book Daily Reflections © Copyright 1990 by Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc.


----------



## movealong

Today's reflection really struck me this morning. Even though I am on step 5, I have been trying to utilize all of the steps in my daily life. I have been "mending fences" for over 6 months now. And while not all of the mending has been tangible (talking to people, etc), it has been relieving me of the resentments I had been storing up for later use.


----------



## oregonmom

Thanks Movealong!

I like the movie comparison! So far I have done pretty well I think  Of course I love to plan (shocker I know ), so I looked up all flights and hotels, then gave them all the options I found and let them decide what they would like and that went well. I also tried to hand over some of my responsibilities to them too. One likes to get things done immediately, and that has been a relief not to take it all on myself and know she will get it done. The other has needed me to hold her hand through everything and my email is full, but I keep telling her "let me know if you would like me to help" instead of just doing it for her. I actually think the toughest part of it is over and now comes the fun once the flight is over 

I love the daily reflection you shared too, can you send it to my husband?  lol. That is one thing I have been apprehensive of, he has not made direct amends to me, this time or the last time he went through the steps. I too think it is important, and I think it speaks to his willingness and commitment. Maybe that's me trying to run his program, I don't know. I just know it would make me feel better about things between us.


----------



## Ms. GP

Have you told him this would mean a lot to you? I know it's hard because you have to show vulnerability to do it. I don't think that would be trying to run his program. I haven't gotten to step nine yet so I don't have any experience to offer yet, but I have had a couple of situations where the person was placed right in front of me and it needed to be done.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## oregonmom

Ms. GP said:


> Have you told him this would mean a lot to you? I know it's hard because you have to show vulnerability to do it. I don't think that would be trying to run his program. I haven't gotten to step nine yet so I don't have any experience to offer yet, but I have had a couple of situations where the person was placed right in front of me and it needed to be done.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, I did a few months ago. I told him that would mean a lot to me if he did. I have made direct amends to him since, so I've followed through on my end of the deal and I figure that's all I can do. He still hasn't been very forth right about everything that happened while he was using because he "can't remember", but he remembers details of every sporting event he watched then. Seems to me he just doesn't want to remember, which I can understand. It's there, he just has to dig a little deeper than he has yet. I could be off on that too tho


----------



## Ms. GP

Well you have done everything you can do. It's up to him now. Your side of the street is clean. One thing I can assure you on is, he probably doesn't remember. I don't remember a lot of things. It's embarrassing actually. I don't even know my Facebook password because I started the account when I was high. I don't even really exactly know when my relapse occurred and in what time frame. Some of it's from the drugs and some of its from all the lies I told myself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## oregonmom

That helps a lot Ms GP, thanks. Lies we tell ourselves, that really hits the nail on the head. To me it's crazy he doesn't know when he relapsed or when he met up with the OW, etc. but he's lied to himself for so long about it of course he doesn't. Obsessive me pieced it together through phone records and whatever else, but he wanted to forget so he did. I'm guilty of it too at times. Lightbulb! Thanks


----------



## Ms. GP

You're welcome. I was gonna pm this to you but I think it might help someone else too. This is also embarrassing to admit, but when I first went to treatment I was IQ tested. I was in a program for health care professionals, and they wanted to be sure we would be able to return to our jobs. Well, I had some impairments. I actually had to be retested before I left. Luckily my brain repaired itself, but that really scared me. I told my therapist about it, and she said I should use it as a catalyst to remove some of my shame. No wonder you couldn't make good decisions. It helped a little and it scared me into not wanting to lose any more brain cells either. Ha ha
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## movealong

I saw a study (can't find it now) that showed the IQ of police officers, healthcare, and other professionals when they were using and what it was when they were off for a while. The jump, while not overly dramatic was significant. 

There is also a British study that shows that children with high IQ's are actually MORE likely to use drugs, not less. Kind of strange to me, but in a weird way it makes sense. I mean, for me, my brain tries to tell me I can still use alcohol even though I KNOW what will happen. It is crazy.


----------



## Ms. GP

Yeah. I thought I could " outsmart" the disease. Then I thought I was smart enough to work my own program of recovery and not take all of the suggestions. I was suffering from a case of terminal uniqueness. Now I just keep it simple stupid. Ha ha.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cee Paul

oregonmom said:


> I got an idea while reading the Reconciliation thread in CWI to start a similar thread here for those that are in recovery. It seems like there are a quite a few of us, and I thought it might be helpful to have a place where we can share our triumphs and struggles and get support from others who are there now or have been there in the not too distant past.
> 
> I hesitate to make "rules" for the thread since we are really good at breaking them . But try to be respectful, supportive, gentle and more along the lines of sharing our experience, strength and hope than strictly advice.
> 
> This is for both sides, the alcoholic or addict and the spouses or family members. We have lots to learn from each other
> 
> I guess I will go first since I started the thread
> 
> I just finished my 12th Step! This is pretty amazing to me considering where I was not very long ago. I walked into my first Alanon meeting April 1st of last year (what a April Fools joke ) scared, royally pissed off and totally broken. I think I cried the whole meeting for the first month. A few things kept me coming back - one, my son loved going to the child care and begged to go back (I couldn't disappoint him ). Two, the woman who eventually became my sponsor was running the newcomers meeting and her husband had just had a relapse. I couldn't believe how together and sure of herself she was in the midst of crisis. I wanted that. Three, there was a man sitting next to me, a big, burly biker dude and double winner who gently touched my hand after I shared and was bawling my eyes out and told me he was so sorry that I was going through all this and it would get better. It really meant something to me that this tough guy could be so gentle and caring. It spoke to me about the program. It gave me hope for my H. Looking back at it today, I see very clearly how God was working in my life.
> 
> I have changed so much. Today when I look at myself in the mirror I see a strong, smart, beautiful woman who is capable of so much. I love myself for who I truly am and am willing to be myself. I can state my feelings and desires without thinking the world is going to end if I do. I see more positives than negatives and even when I'm in a giant pile of horse sh!t I can say at least I'm not in a pile of elephant sh!t . I see opportunity in the midst of crisis. I can let go of results, control and anxiety. I believe my higher power will lead me and am willing to let that happen. I understand myself and my reactions better. I am grateful for what I do have instead of focusing on what I don't. I am ok not being perfect. I am worthy of love and the life I want and I am capable of making that possible.
> 
> Life is not all unicorns and rainbows, but I'm making it through. It never will be "perfect", but I love knowing how much I can learn in the crap as long as I have the willingness to do so.
> 
> ((((HUGS)))) to all of you


Good for you and take it one day at a time! As for myself I spent most of the 80's and part of the 90's ingesting weed smoke and snorting cocaine, and occasionally popped pain killers if I could get my hands on some. But by the grace of God and by my own will and determination I stand here today totally clean and sober for almost 18 years now!! :smthumbup:


----------



## LongWalk

Yesterday I drank a beer, not for any good reason except to kill time and dull pain. I usually never drink a second one. But I wrestled with it and it was only the idea of chasing demons that attracted me to it. I thought about TAM and that helped me to not have another. I know that my alcohol consumption is moderate, but even a single drink for the wrong reasons is substance abuse.


----------



## Ms. GP

I agree LW, I think it is definitely possible to abuse a substance without being addicted to it. Not for me, ha ha but I digress. It sounds to me like you are going through a hard time but I think if you take alcohol off the table you will force yourself hopefully find a healthier alternative. If you don't mind me asking, but what are you trying? I truely think one can act their way into right thinking. I'm a big fan of physical exercise too. Doesn't have to be much. Anything helps in my opinion. I'm a people person. So I love to surround myself with positive people. The key is to pick positive people because the negative ones will suck you dry. I also have gotten into photography lately. I love to take pictures of gp and the kids. I even signed up to be the class photographer. It's just something that gives me a sense of pride when I take a good picture. Makes me feel good about myself. I think it's just about finding out what makes you tick and doing it. Of course, therapy and meds are good things too. I do the therapy but not the meds. Nothing wrong with it though. My theory on antidepressants is if getting over depression is a baseball game, then meds will get you to first base. It's up to you to go around the bases. Anyways I hate you are going through this. It sucks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cee Paul

LongWalk said:


> Yesterday I drank a beer, not for any good reason except to kill time and dull pain. I usually never drink a second one. But I wrestled with it and it was only the idea of chasing demons that attracted me to it. I thought about TAM and that helped me to not have another. I know that my alcohol consumption is moderate, but even a single drink for the wrong reasons is substance abuse.


Somehow alcohol has never been a problem for me and has never triggered any other demons, but I am like you in that I always have like two beers or two glasses of wine and then I'm done(just enough to feel relaxed).


----------



## oregonmom

Thanks Cee Paul, glad you're here!

Having a great time here in Ohio so far . One thing that is driving me crazy, football games starting so late! I'm trying to watch the hawks niners game and don't know how all you east coasters watch them so late  I had to miss my Beavers last night too. Oh well

We had a great speaker at our banquet tonight. She was the first black woman to play on the LPGA tour. She told a story about her dad coming back from WWII and not being able to play on any golf courses, so he built his own, all by himself by hand! She said he always told her not to look at things as holding you back, but as opportunities to make your life and the lives of others around you better. Loved it! I think that is also the goal for those of us in recovery too 

Really dislike posting on my phone, I don't know how some of you do it lol

(((HUGS)))
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cee Paul

oregonmom said:


> Thanks Cee Paul, glad you're here!
> 
> Having a great time here in Ohio so far . One thing that is driving me crazy, football games starting so late! I'm trying to watch the hawks niners game and don't know how all you east coasters watch them so late  I had to miss my Beavers last night too. Oh well
> 
> We had a great speaker at our banquet tonight. She was the first black woman to play on the LPGA tour. She told a story about her dad coming back from WWII and not being able to play on any golf courses, so he built his own, all by himself by hand! She said he always told her not to look at things as holding you back, but as opportunities to make your life and the lives of others around you better. Loved it! I think that is also the goal for those of us in recovery too
> 
> Really dislike posting on my phone, I don't know how some of you do it lol
> 
> (((HUGS)))
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That Seahawks vs 49ers game just ended a few minutes ago but I stay up late every night anyway.


----------



## Ms. GP

So my good friend from treatment texts me out of the blue to tell me her marriage counselor had recommended she goes to a sex addict meeting. She was going to try it but was obviously very nervous about it. I told her to try to keep an open mind and it wasn't going to hurt anything. I also told her I had lived with her for three months and I had never noticed that about her. I was worried about this putting her back in a shameful place, but I assured her I was not judging her at all. I have no idea if I handled that one correctly. Any feedback guys? The whole thing happened so fast.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## oregonmom

It sounds like you handled it well to me. No harm can be done, so why not give it a try? It does seem strange tho if you never noticed it while you were with her, but maybe it was really repressed. Or maybe the MC is full of sh!t lol. For the majority, I think sex addiction is just a symptom of bigger things, but I know that's not true for everyone. Best for her to find out and for you to be a supportive friend 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ms. GP

It is strange. I agree. She was very open about it in treatment. I didn't ask for details, but she desperately wanted to make a change. In my opinion she worked very hard in treatment and her actions definitively reflected that. She is a very beautiful girl and when word got out, all the creeps in the place started hitting on her. I have seen her get hit on and I never even witnessed her so much as flirt while she was there. The Mc was my ic in treatment so I know she's awesome but she is a big believer in support groups. I am too and if it helps it helps who cares. I think a lot of her issues stems from her alcoholism and being molested as a kid. I just want to be supportive is all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## movealong

If the meeting is anything like AA/AlAnon, she should be fine. I think you handled it fine, too.


----------



## movealong

I have three things that are my "standard" prayers every morning and evening.

- thanking my Higher Power for my sobriety yesterday and asking for guidance today
- I pray that my family, friends, and yes, even my enemies, find the peace in their lives that I wish to have in mine
- and I end with the Serenity Prayer followed by the 3rd step prayer

When something is really on my mind, I will add it to "the list" and pray on it as needed. What about you, do you guys do anything like this?


----------



## Ms. GP

I pretty much do the same thing. Sometimes I like to pray for a little reassurance I'm on the right path. I don't expect it, but I figure hey if you don't ask you will never get it. Funny thing is I always seem to find it.


----------



## oregonmom

I like to pray for guidance, give thanks for what I have today, and to help me keep a good head on my shoulders. I also at the end of the day try and think about what has gone well, and what I could have handled better. My meeting this morning was on the 10th step, making amends promptly. It was a good reminder to make amends when needed, but also that I tend to take too much blame for things that are out of my control. Sometimes I need to also make amends to myself for being too hard on myself and taking too much of the blame.


----------



## oregonmom

Phew, I finally made it home last night.  I did have a great time, it was pretty stressful at times. The needy person of my group was a definite challenge. She wanted me to help her with everything, but wanted it her way. She wouldn't really listen to the things that needed to be done (we need to be at x by x time) then freak out when that time came and she wasn't ready (why didn't you tell me? We did!). But something I remembered was the last time I was at one of these things I was too stressed out about what was happening at home to really have fun. That was different this time and I'm very grateful for that. My un-needy friend was awesome and a big help, we found out we have a lot more in common than we realized and I think we built an even better friendship than we had beforehand . I am so happy to be home tho! Missed my son so much and missed my husband, which was different than times past  That was a good thing.


----------



## Ms. GP

I'm so glad you were able to relax and have fun. Yeah needy friends are tough, but isn't it cool when you weren't exhausting all of you emotional energy on her, you were better able to connect with your other friend? I think it's good that you do things for yourself and have your own friends. It's setting a good example for your son in my opinion. I think it's good to miss your kids and hubby every once in a while too. The whole absence makes the heart grow fonder thing probably works both ways too.

Speaking of setting a good example, I have to brag on GP. We were at a football game, and our son and some other boys were playing their own game of football. Well a little guy tackled a bigger boy , the bigger boy got mad, and he started banging the little guys head against the ground. GP broke it up and told the bigger boy to go get his dad. Well he did but he had concocted this big story about how he was the one getting beat up. GP totally diffused situation very calmly. The bigger boy even apologized and GP just told him everyone makes mistakes, it takes a big boy to apologize, and that everyone should just forgive and keep playing. All of this for two kids who aren't even his!! It was a good reminder of what a good man I married. I was glad I got to see it.


----------



## oregonmom

You are so right about my other friend and I connecting more because of it instead of it draining me, and that is really cool . The funniest thing was I don't like smoking around the golf crowd, it's my one thing that I am kind of ashamed about and don't want people to know about me. Well, I was going to email her and tell her beforehand cause shoot, she was going to find out anyway but couldn't bring myself to do it. I played crappy first round and told her I needed a couple minutes and grabbed a cigarette in front of her and she's like "you smoke? So do I, I didn't want anyone to know!" Lol. So we sat on the curb and had one together 

That is awesome about GP! Fwiw, it starts out being easier with other people than it is with our spouse, resentments and all that junk. But it is a super good sign going forward


----------



## Ms. GP

Ha ha. Oregonmom!! I thought we were the only ones who hid our addictions. 
You know that reminded me of something. When I was smoking, I made sure not to hide it at all. To me that was addict behavior and I didn't want to fall into that again. That's funny about your friend. It never ceases to amaze me when I admit my weaknesses, how understanding people are. (At least to my face. Ha ha)


----------



## oregonmom

When I met with my sponsor last night she couldn't stop laughing when I told her that story . It's kind of like step 5, you're terrified to tell someone something, then it's been there done that . People are so much more understanding of faults than you think if you give them the chance to be.


----------



## oregonmom

I'm a big music lover, songs seem to put into words what I have a hard time expressing myself. Are there songs that are special to you? Here are a couple of mine.

The song I listen to when I need strength:
http://http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tL_Ye0h5xEI

A song that speaks to me but also makes me think the writer needs al-anon lol 
http://http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VGewQB3mDv4

A song that to me describes the battle in my head between HP and my craziness (by a guy in recovery too):
http://http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qspWU4OMZL0

Hope all the links work, my iPad is being stubborn


----------



## LongWalk

Thanks for the songs.


----------



## movealong

Music is so close to my feelings that I find I have to distance myself from some songs. I have very eclectic tastes in music and there is very little that I don't like or won't listen to. Loved the 80's power ballads, but can't listen to Every Rose Has it's Thorn by Poison. Randy Travis' Digging Up Bones is a favorite when I am in a reflective mood. When I just want to "lose my mind" and not think I will turn to heavy metal or Classical.

As I have aged, I have tried to embrace the newer artisits. Having a 10 year old helps keep the music fresh, lol! But the older kids also influence my listening.


----------



## Ms. GP

I love this!! My friends and I do this all the time. OK my two inspirational theme songs for the moment are Shake it Out by Florence and the Machine and Hang Loose by the Alabama Shakes. Best kid dance party song at the moment is I love it by icona pop. ( the clean version of course) I'm a big music person too. I love your songs too Oregonmon. I think we have very similar musical tastes. pretty cool.


----------



## Ms. GP

Codependents do seem to write the best love songs. My vote for one of the best codependent love songs is Love Song by the Cure. Its so pathetic, it's awesome.! It should be banned at all alanon meetings.!


----------



## oregonmom

Thanks everyone for the songs, awesome 

Thinking about all this, you are right Ms GP. Most great love songs are so codependent! The so called most romantic lines from movies are that way too, the one that comes to mind immediately is "you complete me" from Jerry McGuire. Lol. I love the Violent Femmes, was listening to them last night and it's one codependent song after another, just not so blatant


----------



## GutPunch

oregonmom said:


> Thanks everyone for the songs, awesome
> 
> Thinking about all this, you are right Ms GP. Most great love songs are so codependent! The so called most romantic lines from movies are that way too, the one that comes to mind immediately is "you complete me" from Jerry McGuire. Lol. I love the Violent Femmes, was listening to them last night and it's one codependent song after another, just not so blatant


Hi. My name is GP. I can't stop drinking Diet Coke. I love that shyt. oh, I love the Violent Femmes too.


----------



## oregonmom

Aargh, so I was reminded why I shouldn't look at lots of threads here this morning, I'm triggering and really pissed off. Not how I like to be!

I'm trying not to go over there, post and lose my mind, so please excuse my vent here. Who are these people that think rape is only done by knife or gun wielding strangers jumping out of the bushes? One actually said you can't be raped if there is no weapon or threat of violence that occurs  Are they fvcking serious? Am I the crazy one that thinks this is total BS? It's really upsetting to me people think like this. I hate this anger pumping through my blood.  Praying and trying to let it go. I feel better letting it out here.


----------



## oregonmom

Hi GP 

As I said on your thread, you'll pry my soda from my cold dead hands!! :rofl:

Love that you love the Femmes! "What do I have to do to prove my love to you?" You've done enough dumbass, stop killing yourself and wake up and smell the coffee


----------



## oregonmom

I think most of us have a person or people in a meeting that just rub us the wrong way. If you don't, you are a better person than I lol! How do you deal with it?

I really love my meeting Saturday mornings. It's great. I don't want to gossip about anyone, but there is one woman who has just started driving me nuts. It's a huge meeting, so one person is not enough reason for me to stop going, but I find myself getting annoyed every time. Thank goodness it is a pretty fleeting feeling.  I try to be understanding, realize she is just sicker than most...I guess it's her attitude that she is an expert and so much further along than everyone else and that's so far from the truth. 

She has been in much longer than I, and I don't feel like it's my place to say anything. What are some tricks you guys use to let stuff like that go? Should I just sing lalala to myself when she's sharing?


----------



## Ms. GP

You know it's funny there was a woman in one of my groups that used to get on my nerves for pretty much the same reasons. There was just something about her that rubbed me the wrong way. I talked to my sponsor about it and she said you are pprobably seeing something you don't like about yourself in her. She said there is something to be learned from everyone there. Even if it's simply thank god I'm not like that anymore. Well I prayed about it and asked to find some empathy for her. The next night I took my daughter to the meeting. She is normally very shy, but she really took to this woman. The woman was so sweet to my daughter and even picked her up and gave her a big hug. That really melted my heart. For some reason the woman seemed too happy almost fake in a way. There was just some missing puzzle piece I couldn't exactly put my finger on. 

Well, I got the opportunity to hear her story last week and everything then made sense. She is a survivor of physical and sexual abuse. I began to see her actions were really just a way for her to hide some of her insecurities. A coping skill I'm sure she had learned in childhood. I now have a lot of empathy for her and I can even say I actually like her. I hope that you can get something from that. I don't know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ms. GP

Oh yeah. I forgot to add it used to drive me crazy when people would show up drunk or high to meetings. Which is crazy because I used to do it all the time!! That was totally, "spot it got it" syndrome. Then someone pointed out all you have to have is a desire to stop drinking/ using.  Now I just say oh well they're in the right place. Ha ha.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## oregonmom

It does make sense, thanks. While I was first reading that, I was thinking she's my total opposite lol. But what I do see is that she is the kind of person that has always scared me. Loud, opinionated, pushy, center of attention, scary! . There is also a lot of her personality that reminds me of my H, the stuff that drives me crazy about him . So it's no wonder I have this aversion to her.

She does speak sometimes, and my thought has always been heck no I can't go listen to her for a half hour, the four minutes drives me nuts . But I think I will do that next time she does, that makes a lot of sense that it might help.

The getting mad at people who come high after that was something you used to do makes a lot of sense too. I didn't always understand the traditions and was guilty of bringing outside stuff into the meetings, or at least wanting to if I didn't . She does a lot of "everyone needs to read such and so book or movie or song" that's not conference approved. I'm a stickler for that stuff now, it bugs me cause we have tons of newcomers in that meeting. I have no problem with it outside the meeting (like here). But I really relate that to the being high thing


----------



## LongWalk

thanks for the music theme. I definitely share your idea about staying current.

Here is a song. I don't know what it means exactly but there is some messed relationship behind it all.


----------



## Ms. GP

LongWalk said:


> thanks for the music theme. I definitely share your idea about staying current.
> 
> Here is a song. I don't know what it means exactly but there is some messed relationship behind it all.


Cool song. I have never heard of them. I like it.


----------



## movealong

Spent 4 hours on 5th step yesterday. Didn't even get halfway through. Setting aside another 4 hours this coming weekend.


----------



## Ms. GP

Wow!!! Seems like you are being thorough. How are you feeling about it so far?


----------



## oregonmom

movealong said:


> Spent 4 hours on 5th step yesterday. Didn't even get halfway through. Setting aside another 4 hours this coming weekend.


Wow, how are you feeling? My 5th took quite awhile too. It seemed really scary till I started doing it, but it felt good to get it all out.


----------



## movealong

It's not as tough as I thought it would be. Rigorous honesty, lol. It is tougher to put it down on paper than it is to discuss it with my Sponsor. Putting it on paper makes it "real", discussing gets it off my conscious. I am looking forward to being done with it so I can move forward in my sobriety.


----------



## Ms. GP

Alright guys. What are some of your tricks for dealing with "stinking thinking"? Especially around how long it takes for things to get better. I went to a meeting and feel a little better, but right now I'm just kinda clinging to the fact of at least I'm not actively making things worse. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.


----------



## movealong

I try to get busy doing something else. Paperwork if at my job, cleaning my man cave if at home, or just about anything that will occupy my mind until i am no longer thinking about it. If that doesn't work i go to a meeting or call someone to talk to. Sometimes just going over the step prayers helps.


----------



## oregonmom

Those are a lot of good suggestions from Movealong 

One thing that works for me is journaling. If I write my stinking thinking down, then read it back a few days later I see how stinky it is. For some, that just helps convince themselves it's right tho 

I also find gratitude lists helpful. What I like about myself, my H, life etc. I haven't done this myself, but I have heard lots of people making a God box and writing down the things that are hard to let go of (usually stinking thinking stuff) and putting it in there.

When I first started meeting with my sponsor, she made me write 3 things I was grateful for, 3 things I liked about myself and 3 feelings I was having every day for a month. It put me in a more positive frame of mind, and it helped me get more in touch with myself. The hardest part was the feelings, I only knew mad, sad and scared lol


----------



## movealong

I must have done a good 4th step. We spent 3 more hours on it today and will finish it Tuesday night. Came home and reflected on it. I know I will add more as time goes on, but I am ready for the 6th step Tuesday night.


----------



## Ms. GP

Dude!! I got a theme song for your seemingly never ending fourth step.  I think it applies to everyone in recovery though. Ha ha. 

Grouplove - Ways to Go [Official music video] - YouTube


----------



## oregonmom

Well, I just got some really bad news. My H's mom just died. It is a sad story about what alcoholism will do to someone. She had survived many close calls in the past 5 years, but apparently no more. Unfortunately I think only she and his dad did not see this coming.

I am very concerned about my H. He has not called me yet to tell me what happened, I've only gotten a few texts. I want to support him however I can, but I don't know what much to do other than saying I'm sorry and try to handle any organizational stuff (flight, funeral arrangements etc.). His father has been in a nursing home for the past year after suffering a stroke, so he can not do much. There is just a huge mess back there, bills haven't been paid in months, debt piling up, living in squalor...we have tried everything we could do to try and help and she wouldn't accept any of it. I don't know how long his dad will survive now - he has heart problems and his weight has gone up to over 300 pounds and I worry he won't survive this trauma.

IDK, I just had to get all of this out. I hope my H is finding solice in his HP and program right now. He has already gone thru way too many deaths (his bio dad, his older brother) and spiraled out of control with both. He has more to lean on now and I hope that will be enough. It really scares me he hasn't called. Thank you for listening and send some prayers his way.


----------



## movealong

I am sorry to hear this. My thoughts and prayers are with you.


----------



## oregonmom

Thank you Movealong, I really appreciate it.


----------



## oregonmom

My H seems to be doing ok. He went straight to his meeting after work which is good. He hasn't said much, just that she had been gone for days when his uncle found her and at least the last thing they said to each other was love you. So sad. I hope he will open up more later. I don't want him to feel like he has to hold it all together, there are plenty of people to support him. I have just held him and made him a special sandwich. What else to do? I guess I have been fortunate not to have to deal with much death so I don't know much. Pray, pray and pray is about all I know. If you guys have any suggestions let me know. Thanks all.


----------



## Ms. GP

I imagine his feelings are going to be all over the place. I would think anger will be creeping in soon. It sounds like she was in such deep denial, that there was no way she was going to ask for help. My hope and prayer is that one day he will see his parents as very sick people that were doing the best they could. I think you are handling it well already. I learned in rehab not to say, "I know how you feel." Or "she's in a better place" or" it's God's will". Mabye just mirror some of his feelings back to him when he decides to open up and reassure him that he's normal and not a bad person for whatever he feels. I also learned that people just want to talk about their loved ones sometimes not to act like the person didn't exist. You guys will get through this, it's gonna be tough though. Life on life's terms really sucks sometimes. Big hugs. So sorry you are going through this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## oregonmom

That is all really good stuff Ms GP, thanks. I will try to keep my mouth shut except for encouragement and reflecting back and not be pushy. I do hope too that he sees them that way one day. I think he was getting there, and this may be a little bit of a set back, but hopefully all will work itself out in the end.


----------



## movealong

(note: edited from original post) 12-reasons-why-you-are-not-getting-what-you-want/

12 Reasons Why You’re Not Getting What You Want

1.Your agenda isn’t pure. Do you have ulterior motives? Prestige, escape, defense, etc.
2.You’re long on want, but short on direction, planning, and work.
3.You’re not seeing the forest for the trees.
4.What you perceive as a denial is really a matter of not being ready for it yet.
5.Being frozen in desire has caused you to miss alternatives and options. Some may be even better.
6.If you claim a spiritual power, she/he/it has something else in store for you (which could include a lesson or two).
7.Your thinking is distorted.
8.What you believe is rightfully yours really isn’t.
9.Nobody owes you anything.
10.You never asked for it.
11.In some manner you may already have it.
12.Like the A.A. vet told me – “Tough sh_ _, you can’t.”

What is it you want so badly you can taste? Take the time to run it through the list. In addition to avoiding a lot of aggravation, you’ll gain a ton of personal insight.


----------



## TikiKeen

Oregonmom, I'm so sorry. I'd suggest you both continue with meetings and work with others. It really does ease all pain.

I'm new, so I'll intro: 15 yrs sober/clean. Drug of choice was booze+"what do you have?" Married to another recovering drunk who also has long-term sobriety.

As far as stinkin' thinkin'...
gratitude list
help others
laugh

I used to go through the steps about once every 18 months. then I realized I wouldn't have to do that if I (a)stopped hiding poor motives under good ones and (b)started doing a daily 10th step. There is also (c)...the world doesn't owe me squat.

Funny how my marriage began to improve when I got more disciplined about the 10th...it's the make-it-or-break it step for me; taking actions shows I trust my HP.

I'll also suggest a phone app called "Recovery App". It's the one with the circle and triangle in the app store. I have an Android, so I don't know if it's available for iPhone. it has the BB, 12&12, major prayers and daily readings from AA, NA, Al-Anon and the occasional one-off too. Good stuff.


----------



## oregonmom

Thank you and welcome TikiKeen 

"What do you have" lol, sounds just like my H 

I will have to check out the recovery app, thanks for the tip! I have found a lot of great podcasts that I love and there is also a wealth of speaker tapes too. My favorite is called the recovery show, it is like an Al-Anon round table discussion; they also do one just like it for AA but I haven't checked that out.


----------



## movealong

I wish I had a freaking road map to see where I am about to make a wrong turn. I'd also like to see if the road is closed ahead or if it is open to our destination. I would like for my wife and I to be together, but I am really frustrated at the slow speed with which anything happens. 

I know I cannot rush her recovery, but man oh man, I am so frustrated feeling the way I do. 

I have been a Nice Guy most of our relationship. After working my steps, and reading some of the suggested books here, I find I no longer need the external validation I used to need. I am finding out who I am in my sobriety. Now it is causing me grief in that I am waiting for her to get to a point in her recovery where she knows what she wants. 

I want to be with her, but I am not sure that my needs will be met. I am also quite sure that if/when I express my needs it will elicit a negative reaction. 

My goal is to make it to my 1st AA birthday, then take a look at where we are and decide what to do. Yea, yea, I am rushing things, lol. That's why I said I am turning to my HP more and more. I don't want to screw it up by trying to run the show.


----------



## Ms. GP

Alright Bro, it's time for some of the old school AA tough love. Remember I'm coming from a place of love and our situations are very similiar so I promise I'm not judging. I would want you guys to do the same for me. With that being said, do yourself a favor and please stop reading some of the other TAM forums. Their situations are a little different from mine and yours my friend. You don't need to alpha up. There is no such thing as a nice guy (or girl) alcoholic. If you want to have a better marriage, than just focus on being a better spouse. She is sick, and you made her that way. These things take time. I promise I am typing these words just as much for myself as I am for you. You guys are so ahead of the game it's not funny. You are both working a program of recovery. There is no infidelity in your history to recover from either. Do you know how awesome that is?!!! Talk to your sponsor. I really think he will agree with me. It's stinking thinking. If your marriage instantly repaired itself overnight, you would take it for granted. Don't give up before the miracle happens. I'm still super optimistic for you guys!!


----------



## oregonmom

Hi movealong,
First of all, I get where you are coming from. This stuff can be really frustrating, especially dealing with our spouses. I have many days (many!!!) where I feel like wtf, is this really worth it and why can't he get his sh!t together. My sponsor likes to say "so you are doing this harder than he is. So what? You'll be better off in the end no matter the outcome. Keep the focus on you". I think that applies here. It is also hard not to focus on the outcome, but it is really important to just focus on the process. Keep turning to HP when you get frustrated, and trust he has the right outcome for you.

I also have to agree with Ms GP tho. When I get to reading other forums in here, I tend to get more frustrated. I think I have to follow what they are doing. Yeah, it sounds like terminal uniqueness a bit, but I really believe dealing with addiction is different than other problems. I believe in following the program that has worked for so many people, and that is the place where we need to make sure we aren't doing the uniqueness thing, not amongst normies.

I can't speak for your wife, but I can give my perspective of being married to a guy who thinks he has always been a nice guy. He has said "you make everything seem like it was so bad all the time (during his addiction), we had tons of good times". Well, yes we did. But there was always an undercurrent of fear going thru my brain, even when things seemed "good". I'm not saying that is his fault. My feelings, my responsibility. He rarely was outwardly mean to me, maybe a few times a year. When he was tho, it was really mean. I was terrified to say anything that might set him off. I didn't know what would set him off. I also knew he was lying to me, sometimes outright, usually just by omission. Even when he did something nice for me, I saw it as manipulation - why is he doing this? He must want something in return. What is it? What is he hiding from me that he is making up for? I hope that makes sense. I am not saying any of that is true about you, but it is possible your wife has felt the same way. Things generally felt happy and it may have seemed she was generally happy with you, but she may have had fear if she didn't appear that way, the other shoe would drop and all hell would break loose.

We are always supposed to focus on ourselves, but I would make the suggestion not to wait til your first bday, but hers to take a hard look at where you stand. Or better yet, when she makes it thru the steps. Waiting for her to get her year won't stop you from continuing to get better. It will provide a much better idea of where things are headed. Seven months vs the time you were drinking is not enough time for her to truly believe things are different now. It takes a lot of time for trust to be rebuilt, no matter how hard you're working or how well you're doing. 

I have lots of hope for you guys too!! If it makes you feel any better, you are light years ahead of where my H and I were at that point


----------



## movealong

MS. GP: I agree.  I don't read the CWI threads anymore, but I have read a few threads in other forums that have not been "helpful". I know you are right in what you're saying. 




oregonmom said:


> I can't speak for your wife, but I can give my perspective of being married to a guy who thinks he has always been a nice guy. He has said "you make everything seem like it was so bad all the time (during his addiction), we had tons of good times". Well, yes we did. But there was always an undercurrent of fear going thru my brain, even when things seemed "good". I'm not saying that is his fault. My feelings, my responsibility. He rarely was outwardly mean to me, maybe a few times a year. When he was tho, it was really mean. I was terrified to say anything that might set him off. I didn't know what would set him off. I also knew he was lying to me, sometimes outright, usually just by omission. Even when he did something nice for me, I saw it as manipulation - why is he doing this? He must want something in return. What is it? What is he hiding from me that he is making up for? I hope that makes sense. I am not saying any of that is true about you, but it is possible your wife has felt the same way. Things generally felt happy and it may have seemed she was generally happy with you, but she may have had fear if she didn't appear that way, the other shoe would drop and all hell would break loose.


This is my wife in your paragraph. And me.

ETA: Thank you both for bringing me some reality this morning.


----------



## TikiKeen

hey y'all? Go read the second half of the 12th step in the 12x12. Start on p114, where it begins to talk about emotional sobriety.

The thing that my sponsor did, that I pass along is this: no major decisions until I had worked all 12 steps for 6 months. This whole "no major decisions the first year" is nowhere in the BB. It's just not. There are circumstances where decisions must be made. in my case, I had a kid at 5 months sober. I moved, too, at 2 weeks sober. 

We can only be responsible for our own recovery. I know that my actions can and do affect my H's life, but he is the one responsible for himself. He can choose his responses (today he started an argument after I held him accountable for an errand he had committed to and didn't do yesterday. He wanted me to do it, "because you're home all day". I didn't back down. Why? Because I work from home, and my integrity tells me to follow through on my stuff, and not be a doormat and follow through for him as well.)

We drunks think in black& white a lot. By all accounts, we look a little BPD or bipolar early in sobriety because we're just not used to feeling feelings and not being overwhelmed to the point of running away from them. That sh!t's foreign, ya know? 

I can't express enough how comforting it was to find happily married couples to befriend in sobriety. the problem was finding a couple where the man and woman both agreed they really were happy, and also acted that way. Walking the walk is hardest at home.


----------



## movealong

TikiKeen said:


> hey y'all? Go read the second half of the 12th step in the 12x12. Start on p114, where it begins to talk about emotional sobriety.
> 
> The thing that my sponsor did, that I pass along is this: no major decisions until I had worked all 12 steps for 6 months. This whole "no major decisions the first year" is nowhere in the BB. It's just not. There are circumstances where decisions must be made. in my case, I had a kid at 5 months sober. I moved, too, at 2 weeks sober.
> 
> We can only be responsible for our own recovery. I know that my actions can and do affect my H's life, but he is the one responsible for himself. He can choose his responses (today he started an argument after I held him accountable for an errand he had committed to and didn't do yesterday. He wanted me to do it, "because you're home all day". I didn't back down. Why? Because I work from home, and my integrity tells me to follow through on my stuff, and not be a doormat and follow through for him as well.)
> 
> *We drunks think in black& white a lot. By all accounts, we look a little BPD or bipolar early in sobriety because we're just not used to feeling feelings and not being overwhelmed to the point of running away from them. That sh!t's foreign, ya know? *
> 
> I can't express enough how comforting it was to find happily married couples to befriend in sobriety. the problem was finding a couple where the man and woman both agreed they really were happy, and also acted that way. Walking the walk is hardest at home.


Thank you for your insight. I appreciate very much what you said.

The B/U part especially hits home!!


----------



## movealong

Making that first amend was stressful, but relieving. It is a nice feeling to be moving ahead in my sobriety.


----------



## Ms. GP

Good for you! I'm proud of you. I really think courage isn't the absence of fear it's doing something in spite of one's fear. My first amends didnt go so well, but I survived. I didn't drink or form a resentment over it. So it's still a success in my opinion. I was hurt and angry at first don't get me wrong, but I think it's about the effort not the outcome.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TikiKeen

Movealong: awesome!


----------



## movealong

With the grace of my higher power and continued growth in sobriety, I will be picking up my 8 month chip on Wednesday. 3/4 of my first year gone by and so much has changed in my life. I do believe I am seeing the 9th Step promises starting to happen. I also believe that Our Higher Power helps those that help themselves. I'm not steering the car, but I go where he tells me.

I think about one of our long timer's spiel when he was called on in a meeting. He'd say it ain't the caboose that kills you when you get hit by a train and it ain't the last drink that gets you drunk. In other words, if you don't step in front of the locomotive (the first drink), then you won't get killed (continue drinking).

May you have the peace in your life that I wish to have in mine.


----------



## Ms. GP

movealong said:


> With the grace of my higher power and continued growth in sobriety, I will be picking up my 8 month chip on Wednesday. 3/4 of my first year gone by and so much has changed in my life. I do believe I am seeing the 9th Step promises starting to happen. I also believe that Our Higher Power helps those that help themselves. I'm not steering the car, but I go where he tells me.
> 
> I think about one of our long timer's spiel when he was called on in a meeting. He'd say it ain't the caboose that kills you when you get hit by a train and it ain't the last drink that gets you drunk. In other words, if you don't step in front of the locomotive (the first drink), then you won't get killed (continue drinking).
> 
> May you have the peace in your life that I wish to have in mine.


Congrats man. 8 months that's awesome!!! I'm starting to see some unexpected blessings too. For example, the lady in charge of the drug court for my area asked me if I wanted to do some volunteer work with her. I was shocked to say the least. Her exact words were, I trust you to do a good job. I almost cried when she said that.


----------



## movealong

That is wonderful, Ms. GP! And I am sure it was heartening to hear her say that.


----------



## now_awake

This is a wonderful thread.  

My H has been in SA for about six months now. He started with alcohol when he was about 14. He'd go home for lunch drunk, and his parents wouldn't say anything. It's strange since they both work with kids. 

As he grew, he transferred his addiction to pot, porn and food. When we had kids, he dropped the pot. I really think he tried to pretend he didn't have a problem, and of course so did I. I figured since he wasn't getting drunk, then there wasn't a big problem. He hid his porn addiction really well. He couldn't hide his weight gain though. Instead of putting my foot down, I joined him. Silly me, I know. But codependency and all that, right? I gained weight too, which I'm now losing (woohoo!). 

I didn't know the extent of his other addiction. It took a DDay for that to come to light....paying for web cams, starting to think about hiring prostitutes, in a long term EA, etc. 

Sobriety has been difficult. He's only now starting to be able to stay sober for short periods of time. He's been trying to see how I'd feel about him transferring his addiction again and talking about pot...a lot. I'm not giving him a free pass and told him that we would have problems if he started. I think that surprised him. 

I haven't had the best experience with S-ANON, so I'm considering Al-ANON since my dad was also an alcoholic.

edited to add: I definitely have had my share of abusing drugs and alcohol in the past, though I never had cravings and dropped it all fairly easily. It seems that I did it more because of lack of boundaries and because I just did what my friends did. I can clearly see my codependent ways. I'm trying to forgive myself for my self abuse and constantly putting the needs of others before my own. But that's part of my own recover, isn't it?


----------



## movealong

Keep working the steps for your recovery. And, yes, going to AlAnon may help you more if you are not getting what you need from the current group.


----------



## andromeda

I just wanted to join in here, if that's OK. I have been involved in Al Anon for almost 2 years and find that the peace I've gotten from working the steps has given me the strength to finally come out of denial and into acceptance of my situation. I posted a thread on the 'thinking about separating or divorcing' page, but I found this shortly after. Anywhere recovery folks can support each other is a great place to be!


----------



## movealong

Hello, andromeda! And welcome!

I went and replied to your thread in the other forum. Keep going to AlAnon! Please!!


----------



## movealong

I spent a couple of hours at my home group this morning. I chaired the 9am meeting and we discussed the 12th Step. It was a very nice meeting. Lots of folks brought dishes and sides to share throughout the day and volunteers are keeping the doors open until the 10pm meeting is over tonight. 

It was gratifying to share my sober Thanksgiving with other alcoholics then head home to deep fry two turkeys. My wife and I spent the day with all of our kids, my granddaughter, and my son's fianc'e. 

I am thankful today to celebrate another holiday in sobriety.


----------



## Ms. GP

I'm glad you had a nice holiday. I did too. However, I think I have officially fallen off the pink cloud in my sobriety. I have noticed some of the old timers saying some rude things to some of the newcomers. Saying things like, " I like what you shared." When they didn't share anything. I saw one woman telling a woman she shared too long. I brought it up in a meeting and got my butt chewed by about five old farts. I'm not gonna let it keep me from going back. I know how to take what I like and leave the rest, but I'm probably gonna stick to speaker meetings until after the holidays. It just affects my serenity too much. Then I'm coming back swinging cause they can't kick me out. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## movealong

"They can't kick me out." LMAO!! Ain't it the truth!

It is depressing to see the old timers doing crap like that. I've made pointed comments in return such as "even long term sobriety doesn't mean you're emotionally sober." I subscribed to the philosophy that "I am responsible."

"I am responsible . . . When anyone, anywhere, reaches out for help, I want the hand of A.A. always to be there. And for that: I am responsible."

When an old timer slaps the hand that is reaching out, it detracts from the group as a whole. It sucks to see it happen, but I just figure they are "white knuckler's" that are having a bad day.


----------



## Ms. GP

I couldn't agree more. I have to accept that I can't change it. I truly believe it will work itself out eventually. I mean those old farts can't live forever right?


----------



## movealong

Today is 9 months. I am simply amazed at the changes in my life.


----------



## movealong

Wishing everyone a Merry, and sober, Christmas!


----------



## bandit.45

movealong said:


> "They can't kick me out." LMAO!! Ain't it the truth!
> 
> It is depressing to see the old timers doing crap like that. I've made pointed comments in return such as "even long term sobriety doesn't mean you're emotionally sober." I subscribed to the philosophy that "I am responsible."
> 
> "I am responsible . . . When anyone, anywhere, reaches out for help, I want the hand of A.A. always to be there. And for that: I am responsible."
> 
> When an old timer slaps the hand that is reaching out, it detracts from the group as a whole. It sucks to see it happen, but I just figure they are "white knuckler's" that are having a bad day.


I have to admit that when I am in my AA meetings I tend to be one of those crusty old-timers! I call B.S. when I hear it and alot of people get hurt. But its because i see them making the same mistakes and excuses i used to. 

I often run out and grab them in the parking lot and clear the air with them before they go home, or I'll take them for a late dinner or something, just so they wont get scared away.


----------



## movealong

Talk about conflicting emotions. Several weeks ago we had a lady from out of town show up at the Men's meeting. Without being rude, one of the long time members told her it was a men's meeting, but that there was another group having an open meeting about 10 minutes away. I felt bad about her being asked to leave, but I am still so new to this that I didn't feel I should speak up.

Well, fast forward to last weekend. A couple came in to the Men's meeting, and the same long time member told them it was a men's meeting. Well, they proceeded to be real a-holes about it, and the man even asked if anyone objected to the woman being there. The long timer objected. As they were walking out there were several unsavory curse words and names thrown back through the door and middle fingers raised at the group. They even stood outside and caused a ruckus for several minutes before finally departing the parking lot. I was extremely uncomfortable, and almost left. One because of them being asked to leave, but more their reaction.

We continued the meeting, and one of the guys (6 months sober) said "I am glad they were asked to leave, I have a hard time sharing certain things when a woman is present". This made me feel a bit better about what had happened....knowing that not having them there would help that alcoholic.

At the conclusion of the meeting several of us talked about what had happened. It turns out that the couple who caused the ruckus HAVE been banned, and have restraining orders against them, at several groups in the area. 

I guess I am still conflicted because I do believe that maxim about the hand of AA always being there. It's just that in certain cases, that hand needs to guide them to another meeting or out the door because of other problems.


----------



## Ms. GP

Obviously there is a lot of gray area here and it's not a black and white issue. The point I was trying to make was sometimes it's not what you say but how you say it. I try to remember that I am dealing with sick people and some are sicker than others. Bandit I think the world of you bro, but if your conscience bothers you enough to chase the person down after the meeting to clear the air and by your own admission a lot of people get hurt, you might be reacting a little too harshly. What good is embarrassing a person in front of a group of strangers?

I got the opportunity to practice what I preached the other day and man was it hard!! It was at a big book study and we were talking about the fourth step and got to the part about the sex inventory. The unwritten rule was people that have worked the step would share their experience, strength, and hope on the subject. Well there was a new lady there who obviously hadn't worked the step and decided to share some of her sexual trangressions instead with a room full of about 50 men and women. I really like the woman and I'm telling you it was painful to listen to her. I wanted to stop her so bad, but I thought to myself, "you know if she had shared like that in my women's meeting it wouldn't have been any big deal. So I decided instead of embarrassing her any more, I would invite her to my women's meeting instead. You know she looked at me and said, "you know you are about the fifth person in a row to invite me to that meeting." Apparently I wasn't the only one who thought that I'm guessing. Ha ha.

As far as women's/men's meetings go, I had a friend who accidently showed up at a men's meeting and wasn't told until after the fact that it was a men's meeting say it was one of the most uncomfortable experiences of her life. I think you should definitely tell the person that it's a single gender meeting and tell them where the closest mixed gender meeting is and at what time. I think that couple was just trying to start trouble and be disrespectful. I'll be perfectly honest, I wouldn't want a man at my women's meeting. I think it would bring down the level on comfort and intimacy of the group and that's what I think is so special about that meeting. Just my opinion though.


----------



## movealong

Ms. GP said:


> I'll be perfectly honest, I wouldn't want a man at my women's meeting. I think it would bring down the level on comfort and intimacy of the group and that's what I think is so special about that meeting. Just my opinion though.


I agree with your post, and particularly the quote above. I think it is important that a person be told, respectfully, when they enter a single gender meeting and be given the opportunity to find another meeting or go ahead and sit in knowing that it may cause other's discomfort.


----------

