# For the guys here, thoughts?



## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

Ten months in! Still struggling badly...

*IF* my WS is telling me the truth... (which I doubt.) 
As a guy, how easy would this be to fall into this mistake and is it forgivable in your opinion? I've asked other people who haven't been thru the BS hell we've all been thru and I get guys are pigs, blah, blah, blah... I'm sure those of you that are faithful would strongly disagree. But, would this be an easy mistake to fall into as a guy? 

WS goes on business trip with several coworkers who have a reputation of partying and sleeping around. (I already sound doomed, but stupid me TRUSTS. We'd been together ten years, married eight, two small kids at home...) They have an after party where they all get very drunk. He is sharing a room with a coworker. His coworker brings back the model they used earlier that day to smoke pot. WS is supposedly passed out. He awakes to find his coworker and the model having sex. She then offers him a BJ, which he unfortunately accepts. They all pass out. Next morning while he's in the shower she takes off and then he asks his coworker to keep the secret. It was kept for nine years... 

He can't tell me why he really did it. He acknowledges being drunk isn't an excuse. Some ideas have been it was a few days before his 30th birthday, we got married young, he didn't get to really have the single life, he was jealous of his coworkers, it was exciting having a young girl hit on him... (Ya, the last two HURT ME VERY BADLY.) 

Other than doubts I have, if this was the real and only story... Thoughts? He won't budge, we've being going in circles for ten months now. I at one time tested positive for HPV, he still says when he finally confessed this to me it was everything. This is why he confessed, I kept on him about the HPV and a relationship he had with a coworker. I had threatened a poly... He's been suicidal, it's been pretty bad here. It's gotten to the point I can't ask any more questions. 

I just don't know. I can't seem to forgive, don't feel like I have closure. It hurts too bad. The last nine years seem like one big lie.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

I was a private jet pilot for a decade. I can tell you that there were guys I flew with who were over the top philanderers.

That didn't mean squat to me cuz I wasn't.

I would seriously question his sincerity here and if he ever had relations at any other time with any woman...whether he knew them personally or not. I'm talking about escorts, prostitutes, dancers...whatever.

One just doesn't wake up in a room and decide a BJ is okay to do.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

hurtingbadly said:


> we've all been thru and I get guys are pigs, blah, blah, blah... I'm sure those of you that are faithful would strongly disagree. But, would this be an easy mistake to fall into as a guy?
> 
> I at one time tested positive for HPV, he still says when he finally confessed this to me it was everything. This is why he confessed, I kept on him about the HPV and a relationship he had with a coworker.


Yes, guys are pigs. I'm a guy, and I'm a pig. BUT...I've never cheated in 20 years, and I'd like to think that I could resist the BJ your H accepted.

I'm probably wrong, but I didn't think your H could get HPV from only a BJ? I'd confirm with a doc. How long ago did you get a positive result? Could he have picked up HPV before the two of you met?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

You're NOT going to get your answers here on TAM. The only one with the answers is your husband, who is not being forthcoming. You are grasping at straws, trying everything you possibly can to stay with him, but you're on a sinking ship. He ISN'T REMORSEFUL.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

I'm a guy and have considerable experience as an alpha pig. IMO: He's lying.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

I don't know who outed your husband but I think you should ask the coworker (if you're still in contact) if he or his spouse ever got HPV. If they did, then your infection can be traced to that model. If they didn't, then there must be someone else in the picture.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

hurtingbadly said:


> Ten months in! Still struggling badly...
> 
> *IF* my WS is telling me the truth... (which I doubt.)
> As a guy, how easy would this be to fall into this mistake and is it forgivable in your opinion? I've asked other people who haven't been thru the BS hell we've all been thru and I get guys are pigs, blah, blah, blah... I'm sure those of you that are faithful would strongly disagree. But, would this be an easy mistake to fall into as a guy?
> ...


The reason you are not feeling closure is that his story is not believable. So he got a BJ once and he then transmitted HPV to you? Possible but not likely. 

He told you what he thought was the softest story he could get away with, quite likely. 



> It's gotten to the point I can't ask any more questions.


Because he is suicidal? And how do you know he is? He told you so? When men try suicide for real they do it effectively. Usually by violent means.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

It's NOT standard guy behavior. No matter what we may fantasize about not all guys let models give them blowjobs. Even when presented with the opportunity. 

Also I'm no sexual health expert but I believe HPV can only be transmitted through vaginal contact. You can't get it from a blow job. So, for options:
1. He is lying about what happened that night.
2. He is lying that she was the only one.
3. He could have contracted it before he met you.
4. You could have contracted it before you met him. 

85% of adults have HPV in one form or another.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

Right, I know. It's hard to believe you can be with someone for twenty years and they were lying to your face. 

I do know this group of coworkers he used to travel with for work were notorious for sleeping around with the models. He used to even tell me how awful they were! One even got divorced over it! Unfortunately for me, he got away with it for almost a decade. Half my adult life in the trash! 

So, chances are he probably was with other models on other trips. Why he would give me this one yucky story, though? 

The HPV... It's odd. I have talked to several doctors. Can't seem to get an answer from any of them. I always had normal paps, then one year my GYN offered the HPV test. I didn't even know what it was! The pap came back normal, but the test positive for high risk. The next year they retested me and the HPV was negative. I highly doubt you ca get HPV from a BJ, only thing was she had just been with another guy. Sooo gross. I tried to talk to the other guy, I got nowhere with that. They all covered for each other. Time wise, I tested positive for it thirteen years into our marriage.


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## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

Dude here. I like to think I'm pretty clean on the "pig" ledger.

He sounds like he has no remorse. He told you the "least" offense, as Costa said.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

HPV can be transmitted in saliva. In fact a man can get it while doing oral to a lady and even get certain types of oral cancers from it. 

To keep graphics to a minimal, it goes like this: She has sex with man X, then blows X, then blows Y man.

All very much possible.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

Complexity said:


> I don't know who outed your husband but I think you should ask the coworker (if you're still in contact) if he or his spouse ever got HPV. If they did, then your infection can be traced to that model. If they didn't, then there must be someone else in the picture.


He confessed when I threatened him with a poly. I had been reeling for several years about the HPV, I thought it was from his coworker he had been close with. He did some trickle truth when I started coming down hard on him and told me some model had given him a birthday kiss on a business trip years ago and that was it. He came out with this BJ story after the poly threat and said his only physical contact was the BJ. He can't explain the HPV to me. Now, I wasn't exactly an angel prior to marrying him, but after thirteen years testing positive to HPV? I highly doubt I carried it that long, even dormant. His coworker wasn't married at the time.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

Yes, he had a serious attempt at suicide this summer. I don't want to go into details, it was pretty horrific for me.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

hurtingbadly said:


> He confessed when I threatened him with a poly. I had been reeling for several years about the HPV, I thought it was from his coworker he had been close with. He did some trickle truth when I started coming down hard on him and told me some model had given him a birthday kiss on a business trip years ago and that was it. He came out with this BJ story after the poly threat and said his only physical contact was the BJ. He can't explain the HPV to me. Now, I wasn't exactly an angel prior to marrying him, but after thirteen years testing positive to HPV? I highly doubt I carried it that long, even dormant. His coworker wasn't married at the time.



Ahhhh...the slippery slope of trickle truth...


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

I also have to point out, the BJ story was five years before the HPV positive test. Why did he give me this? Why not something else that matched up better? I got no closure on the HPV, only more hurt and questions! :scratchhead:


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

costa200 said:


> HPV can be transmitted in saliva. In fact a man can get it while doing oral to a lady and even get certain types of oral cancers from it.
> 
> To keep graphics to a minimal, it goes like this: She has sex with man X, then blows X, then blows Y man.
> 
> All very much possible.


Just quoting the doctors in my previous post. You probably know more about it than I do. Here's what the doctors say:

(doctor's answer to someone on a webmd forum asking if he got HPV from oral sex)

1. Of the bacterial STDs the only ones passed on by oral sex with any meaningful frequency are gonorrhea and NGU. 
2. If you were going to get herpes, you would have had an outbreak by now. 
3. HPV is not transmitted through oral sex. Further, since about 85% of all adults have HPV, even if you were to find out you had it, you would really have no idea of where it came from You and or your GF, as well as your casual partner most likely already have it. 
4. HIV is a non-issue. We quote the odds of getting HIV from oral sex as being less than 1 in 10,0000. We also however acknowledge that his is a conservative estimate. Some experts think there is no risk at all from oral sex.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

sandc said:


> Just quoting the doctors in my previous post. You probably know more about it than I do. Here's what the doctors say:
> 
> (doctor's answer to someone on a webmd forum asking if he got HPV from oral sex)
> 
> ...


The bold part is incorrect. Low concentrations of the HPV have been found in the mouth, tonsils and vocal chords of infected people. The transmission is just less likely, compared to vaginal sex.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

There are a lot of coincidences here and now that you bring up suspicions of a co-worker... there could be a lot trickle truthing. To be fair, HPV can lay dormant for years with very little symptoms. So if it happened 5 years before you found out, it can be explained. 

This is why his co-worker in my opinion, would give you closure on this part. If he had it, then it's her, if he doesn't then your gut instinct about the co-worker has some weight.

He should really do the poly and get it over with, rather than submit himself and you to all these hysterics.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

I never had symptoms, if they hadn't asked if I wanted the HPV test I would have never known. I think they were pushing the vaccine. And since my pap was normal, they wouldn't have tested me for HPV. 

On a stupid side note, shortly after my second child was born I had my first and only abnormal pap. They then tested it for HPV and it came back negative. This was prior to his BJ story. I didn't even know this until recently cause I paid for all my medical records from the GYN.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

He says he'll do the poly. Might be another bluff... I did find a good one nearby. It's $500, though and we keep getting hit hard. Plumbing issue, floors ripped out, some expensive medical tests, now our gutter needs replacing. It's like I can't get that extra $500 saved up. 
Maybe I should try to let it go until I can get him to a poly. I'm getting nowhere. 

The CDC site says you can get HPV from oral sex, but from everything I've read its highly unlikely. Of course, his story isn't really in the books anywhere. And he doesn't remember if she gave his coworker a BJ, too. He just knows they had sex. 

I'm not gonna get anything from his coworker. He knew for nine years and didn't tell me. I've talked with him and emailed with him and he definitely tries to play up my WS didn't do anything else.

Edit to add - there is no HPV test for men. So who knows if his coworker had it. My WS did do a STD screening for me a few months back and all was negative that they tested for.

Now if the female coworker I question had the HPV then I'd know, but again... Most people don't even know they have it. And we do not talk to each other, at all. Not sure I even want to go that route... She's not a nice person.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

hurtingbadly said:


> He says he'll do the poly. Might be another bluff... I did find a good one nearby. It's $500, though and we keep getting hit hard. Plumbing issue, floors ripped out, some expensive medical tests, now our gutter needs replacing. It's like I can't get that extra $500 saved up.
> Maybe I should try to let it go until I can get him to a poly. I'm getting nowhere.
> 
> The CDC site says you can get HPV from oral sex, but from everything I've read its highly unlikely. Of course, his story isn't really in the books anywhere. And he doesn't remember if she gave his coworker a BJ, too. He just knows they had sex.
> ...


HPV is just so common that it's really not the best indicator anyway. The poly is your best bet.

Are you a member of any church? If so they may be able to help. If not you may want to approach a church, tell them you're trying to R and need help with affording a poly for your husband.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

Alpha pig that sounds good!! Whenever you say coworkers, partying, drunk, models it's probably not a good thing. My wife says that's one perk of me being quasi antisocial the chances of me being with guys partying is about NIL!!!

Best of luck!! It's a trust issue and after 9 years of still wondering I doubt there is much he can say that will make you believe him.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

OhGeesh said:


> Alpha pig that sounds good!! Whenever you say coworkers, partying, drunk, models it's probably not a good thing. My wife says that's one perk of me being quasi antisocial the chances of me being with guys partying is about NIL!!!
> 
> Best of luck!! It's a trust issue and after 9 years of still wondering I doubt there is much he can say that will make you believe him.


Ya, I guess I was somewhat doomed. It's like when I saw that movie... Can't think of the name. It's the one with Bradley Cooper in Vegas. This was before I knew anything and I told my husband after seeing that movie he was no longer allowed to go to a bachelor party! I actually was clueless about this ONS until he told me ten months ago. It has been four years since I had that positive HPV test and that is really when I started questioning things. I thought the HPV came from a coworker he was friends with. He still denies this.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

A man should be able to resist a temptation. It's not an excuse.


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## B1 (Jun 14, 2012)

Talk about trickle truthing...I say poly him and get your answers, screw the gutters and floor, let him know you are dead serious about the poly.
Maybe he will break before the poly and tell you the whole truth. Note, I said the whole truth, I feel certain there is far more to his storie(s) then what you have heard. Sorry hurtingbadly..


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## X-unknown (Oct 14, 2011)

I just wanted to say that the length of time your married is no guaranty of fidelity or making lying easy to detect. I think for some of us finding out how well our SO can lie is a terrible part of infidelity. Feeling like and idiot (chump) and the concern that getting the truth is up in the air. Trust becomes an serious issue.

QUOTE=hurtingbadly;954531]Right, I know. It's hard to believe you can be with someone for twenty years and they were lying to your face. 

I do know this group of coworkers he used to travel with for work were notorious for sleeping around with the models. He used to even tell me how awful they were! One even got divorced over it! Unfortunately for me, he got away with it for almost a decade. Half my adult life in the trash! 

So, chances are he probably was with other models on other trips. Why he would give me this one yucky story, though? 

The HPV... It's odd. I have talked to several doctors. Can't seem to get an answer from any of them. I always had normal paps, then one year my GYN offered the HPV test. I didn't even know what it was! The pap came back normal, but the test positive for high risk. The next year they retested me and the HPV was negative. I highly doubt you ca get HPV from a BJ, only thing was she had just been with another guy. Sooo gross. I tried to talk to the other guy, I got nowhere with that. They all covered for each other. Time wise, I tested positive for it thirteen years into our marriage.[/QUOTE]


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

betrayed1 said:


> Talk about trickle truthing...I say poly him and get your answers, screw the gutters and floor, let him know you are dead serious about the poly.
> Maybe he will break before the poly and tell you the whole truth. Note, I said the whole truth, I feel certain there is far more to his storie(s) then what you have heard. Sorry hurtingbadly..


The threat of the poly is how I got the BJ story. He was telling me for a month it was just a kiss.

Oh, not only floors and gutter... We just started ortho on the second child. Two in braces. Hit hard this summer.

I asked him again last night... I said I had a terrible day doubting. You still on board for the poly? At any time? Whenever I'm ready, when we have the money... He said most definitely. Doesn't mean much, though cause he told me that before.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

X-unknown said:


> I just wanted to say that the length of time your married is no guaranty of fidelity or making lying easy to detect. I think for some of us finding out how well our SO can lie is a terrible part of infidelity. Feeling like and idiot (chump) and the concern that getting the truth is up in the air. Trust becomes an serious issue.


Totally, very scary we could be together ten years and he cheats?!? And worse lie to me for almost a decade? Totally disturbing. Makes everything seem like a lie. I feel extremely played and a terrible fool. My "best friend" is suddenly a complete stranger.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

snap said:


> A man should be able to resist a temptation. It's not an excuse.


OK, it seems the guys here think this story is made up. What sticks out to all of you? Think the BJ was actually intercourse? That's what I think. And in my state I can't file adultery if it was only oral sex. Maybe he knows this. I mean, the story is disturbing in itself. So some of it has to be true. I know the other coworker was a player, he has backed up WS's story... (Don't trust him, though. He covered for WS for all these years.) What do you think is the lie here?

And how much do you all think alcohol played into this? He claims he threw up in the shower the next morning. He was obviously drunk, but sober enough to get it up and orgasm?!? How's that possible?

And is it possible to really make a mistake and learn from it? Or is once a cheater, always a cheater true? 

Sadly, I have started to remember him coming home. It was his 30th birthday. I welcomed him back home with balloons and a banner! How crappy is that?!? Hope he felt awful. I now remember him acting weird all week. He was at the computer that next morning, I asked him was he feeling ill? I even gave him a back massage! JERK! He went out of town a week later. He wouldn't have sex with me all week, I now remember how odd I thought that was, but he said he felt off. Man, was I ever stupid... I had been on my period before. It turned into like a month we didn't have sex. I specifically remember saying to him if we don't have sex this week it will be a month... Funny, how old memories can pop back up. Long forgotten.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

A person can get HPV of the mouth with a BJ. 

If you and he had oral sex, the mouth could transfer the HPV to your genitals. 

But as another poster mentioned, HPV can be caught years earlier and only rear it's ugly head on tests, when active

Unless you were tested prior to marriage, both could have contracted it prior. 

Still, I doubt he just had a BJ and a BJ is cheating, so it's not relevant that it was only a BJ. It's still cheating


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> A person can get HPV of the mouth with a BJ.
> 
> If you and he had oral sex, the mouth could transfer the HPV to your genitals.
> 
> ...


That's what my MC told me. Cheating is cheating. Still, I want to know.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

hurtingbadly said:


> Think the BJ was actually intercourse? That's what I think. And in my state I can't file adultery if it was only oral sex. Maybe he knows this. I mean, the story is disturbing in itself. So some of it has to be true. I know the other coworker was a player, he has backed up WS's story... (Don't trust him, though. He covered for WS for all these years.) What do you think is the lie here?
> 
> *I think the BJ was intercourse as you do. I don't know if he actually has thought about laws and stuff, though - I think he's just a typical cowardly WS. They lie cuz they're scared little ego wouldn't have it any other way. As for the coworker, well, he's the same and I wouldn't trust a damn thing that spewed from his lips.*
> 
> ...


The old memories will continue to come back and haunt you a bit and that really sucks. It's a form of PTSD...except I called it being PISD (Post Infidelity Stress Disorder). And being pissed takes a long time to get over, it seems. I'm still a bit PISD.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

hurtingbadly said:


> Ten months in! Still struggling badly...
> 
> *IF* my WS is telling me the truth... (which I doubt.)
> As a guy, how easy would this be to fall into this mistake and is it forgivable in your opinion?


hb, I'm sorry you're in such pain over this. As a guy, my take is that it depends on the person whether or not this is an easy mistake to fall into. Well, one doesn't just _fall into_ a bj! At my bachelor party the guys hired a stripper. At the end they said she would give me a bj in a back bedroom. I was as drunk as I've ever been. I turned it down.

Some men have a cheating streak in them. They go looking for opportunities to cheat. Other men might be strongly committed to their marriage in general but then have a period of weakness. Alcohol can certainly lower a person's inhibitions.

So that is a long way around of saying I don't think it is _easy_ for a man to fall into a bj, but people do have weaknesses. A ONS bj does fit the mold of being a mistake made in a moment of weakness. 

Which does not make it less of a betrayal. Nor does it make it easily forgivable imo. This is as much of a big deal as any other kind of PA. He has to go through all the same process of demonstrating remorse, asking forgiveness, being transparent, seeking IC/MC to understand what happened, etc. After all that, it is still your right to decide if you want to stay married to him.

Forgiveness is a strange word with several meanings. I don't think you can give him forgiveness for the bj without him doing a lot of heavy lifting. The other meaning of the word is you learning to accept what happened and choosing not to let it eat you up. From that standpoint I think you can work towards letting this go.




hurtingbadly said:


> He can't tell me why he really did it. He acknowledges being drunk isn't an excuse. Some ideas have been it was a few days before his 30th birthday, we got married young, he didn't get to really have the single life, he was jealous of his coworkers, it was exciting having a young girl hit on him... (Ya, the last two HURT ME VERY BADLY.)


This I think is maybe a bigger problem for you than the actual sex act. He can't tell you why he did it. Without knowing why, there is no security in the future. I think he does know why, he just doesn't want to go there. The answer might be as simple as he was horny after seeing these models all day, and he was weak. He didn't think about you or the marriage. He was being selfish. To admit to himself those things might be pretty tough, and to admit it to you might be even harder. Maybe the reason is something completely different.

Have you read any books such as "After the Affair"? You have certain needs in the recovery process which he needs to know about. The book helped me get some clarity in the process of reconciliation from a betrayal.




hurtingbadly said:


> Other than doubts I have, if this was the real and only story... Thoughts?


I am not inclined at this time to believe this is the whole story. You have the right to seek as much information as you need. He did betray you even if it was limited to exactly what he has told you.




hurtingbadly said:


> He won't budge, we've being going in circles for ten months now. I at one time tested positive for HPV, he still says when he finally confessed this to me it was everything. This is why he confessed, I kept on him about the HPV and a relationship he had with a coworker. I had threatened a poly... He's been suicidal, it's been pretty bad here. It's gotten to the point I can't ask any more questions.
> 
> I just don't know. I can't seem to forgive, don't feel like I have closure. It hurts too bad. The last nine years seem like one big lie.


Part of the process for you is this feeling of uncertainty about everything. I felt like literally the world below my feet had vaporized when I learned of the depth and scope of my wife's deceptions. What had been real? Had _anything_ ever been real? _Who is this person_? Is her real nature the liar and deceiver? Who will she be in the future?



hurtingbadly said:


> Totally, very scary we could be together ten years and he cheats?!? And worse lie to me for almost a decade? Totally disturbing. Makes everything seem like a lie. I feel extremely played and a terrible fool. My "best friend" is suddenly a complete stranger.



The fact that these issues are still so big for you after nearly a year makes it worth you getting some closure. The poly seems like the best avenue. In my opinion this has risen to a very high priority of need in your life, above many other things. Are you giving yourself enough priority? Don't be super mom who sacrifices everything for everybody else. You have needs, too. If the kids have to do without soccer league this season, it might be a sacrifice they have to make for the family so that you can afford the poly.


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## Exsquid (Jul 31, 2012)

snap said:


> A man should be able to resist a temptation. It's not an excuse.


That being said...A woman should be able to resist a temptation. All committed spouses should resist temptation. In my opinion this is what we agreed to when we said our vows. Sigh...

I am sorry you are going through this. Trickle truth, in my opinion is the most devastating part of the process when learning about an affair or possible affair. Yes you have the knowledge that something has occurred, which hit me like a mack truck, but it's the backing up and hitting you again and again (trickle truth), that hurts so badly.

I wish you the best. I hope that you are eventually able to learn all that you need to know. I hope that all of us (BS) will one day feel confident that we have the "whole truth".


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

I'm not buying your H's story about the BJ. Most likely the co-worker brought an extra model with him as a present for your H.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

hurtingbadly said:


> OK, it seems the guys here think this story is made up. What sticks out to all of you? Think the BJ was actually intercourse?


What sticks out to me is that he only confessed upon threat of poly, and he hasn't been working overtime to repair the marriage. His acting weird for the week after that trip does indicate he felt guilt, which then suggests he was not a habitual cheater up to that point in time.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> I'm not buying your H's story about the BJ. Most likely the co-worker brought an extra model with him as a present for your H.


Maybe... It just seems more gross to me the story he gave that they both shared the same girl?
BTW, his coworker wouldn't confess he had sex with the girl beforehand. Just he brought her back to the room to smoke pot, they fooled around and he then passed out. Then she moved over to WS and gave a BJ. WS says his coworker did have intercourse with her. 

Thor, thanks for your comments. I'm about to walk out the door, but I want to get back to your post later.

I was just thinking... I know cheating is cheating. But, intercourse IMO would be a higher level of disrespect for me. Cause, according to his story I would have been worth less to him than sloppy seconds. He would have risked getting some stranger pregnant (Can you imagine that paternity test?!?), risked bringing us home STDs (which it seems he did anyway with the HPV)... Plus, if he had intercourse with this girl after his coworker did?!? Just totally incredibly gross. 

As it is I'm having extreme issues with giving him a BJ. I can't do it. Something I enjoyed doing for him now suddenly seems extremely cheap and degrading.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

sandc said:


> Just quoting the doctors in my previous post. You probably know more about it than I do. Here's what the doctors say:
> 
> (doctor's answer to someone on a webmd forum asking if he got HPV from oral sex)
> 
> ...


HIV are found in the saliva and can be transmitted this way.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

hurtingbadly said:


> Maybe... It just seems more gross to me the story he gave that they both shared the same girl?
> BTW, his coworker wouldn't confess he had sex with the girl beforehand. Just he brought her back to the room to smoke pot, they fooled around and he then passed out. Then she moved over to WS and gave a BJ. WS says his coworker did have intercourse with her.
> 
> Thor, thanks for your comments. I'm about to walk out the door, but I want to get back to your post later.
> ...



He's not telling you everything.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

Thor said:


> What sticks out to me is that he only confessed upon threat of poly, and he hasn't been working overtime to repair the marriage. His acting weird for the week after that trip does indicate he felt guilt, which then suggests he was not a habitual cheater up to that point in time.


Ya, when I started coming down hard on him about the HPV after several years of worrying he gave me a stupid story about this model gave him a birthday kiss nine years ago and that was his only physical contact he had had during our marriage. That he never touched his coworker I suspected. He does admit he was too close to her than he should have been. (We've worked on the boundaries issue since then.) This went on for a month. Then I threated the poly. He bluffed and said he was all for it, that he never touched his coworker. Then that weekend late at night he told me he never kissed the model, she actually gave him a BJ. He then said he was sorry, he never wanted to hurt me or the girls and he left the house. I was in total shock. Nine years ago?!? I was suspecting his coworker, not some business trip from years ago. I texted him to come back home. We went thru a short honeymoon like phase after that, then suddenly the reality hit me like a ton of bricks. And it's been that way for months now. 

I can remember back and he definitely acted weird when he came back home. He was home a week before he went out of town again for another week, after that I don't really remember anything sticking out. But, whenever cheating was brought up on TV he would act very weird. If I talked about it, he would say cheating was awful and he didn't want to talk about it. This is what surprised me so much, he really played into the cheating was awful thing with me.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

hurtingbadly said:


> But, whenever cheating was brought up on TV he would act very weird. If I talked about it, he would say cheating was awful and he didn't want to talk about it. This is what surprised me so much, he really played into the cheating was awful thing with me.


My counselor calls this something like "Verbal Leakage". It is an unconscious thing which give us clues after the fact. He probably does think cheating is wrong, and he really is uncomfortable talking about it. Now you know why he is uncomfortable!

You remember him being weird about it because it was a change from his past behavior when cheating came up on tv. It didn't make sense back then, so it seemed weird.

My first encounter with that disconnected feeling was when my wife excused Bill Clinton's lie about Monica with "It was sex, and _everybody_ lies about sex!". It took another 15 years before I knew where that came from.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

Thor said:


> My counselor calls this something like "Verbal Leakage". It is an unconscious thing which give us clues after the fact. He probably does think cheating is wrong, and he really is uncomfortable talking about it. Now you know why he is uncomfortable!
> 
> You remember him being weird about it because it was a change from his past behavior when cheating came up on tv. It didn't make sense back then, so it seemed weird.
> 
> My first encounter with that disconnected feeling was when my wife excused Bill Clinton's lie about Monica with "It was sex, and _everybody_ lies about sex!". It took another 15 years before I knew where that came from.


Every person I've told his story to, including several counselors have said, Oh, he's pulling a Bill Clinton!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

SomedayDig, the once a cheater, always cheater thing... I do wonder if once he saw he could cheat and then get away with it, if that makes it easier second time around. I think so.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

hurtingbadly said:


> And how much do you all think alcohol played into this? He claims he threw up in the shower the next morning. He was obviously drunk, but sober enough to get it up and orgasm?!? How's that possible?


It probably played some part, but it's no excuse. Throwing up in the shower is meaningless. Could be a lie, or could have been food-related. Also, a guy doesn't have to be anywhere near sober to do the deed. Back in my crazy days, I'd do it drunk off my azz, and not even remembering a lot of it the next morning. 

My guess here...the "model" was actually a pro, and the coworker and your H paid for her services. Sorry, but your H is FOS.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

thunderstruck said:


> It probably played some part, but it's no excuse. Throwing up in the shower is meaningless. Could be a lie, or could have been food-related. Also, a guy doesn't have to be anywhere near sober to do the deed. Back in my crazy days, I'd do it drunk off my azz, and not even remembering a lot of it the next morning.
> 
> My guess here...the "model" was actually a pro, and the coworker and your H paid for her services. Sorry, but your H is FOS.


WS is certainly FOS, but I don't think she was paid. Like I said earlier this group of coworkers he used to travel with had a reputation of hooking up with the models they used for their trip. Now, she might have been a pro on the side given her behavior. :scratchhead: Ya, maybe so!


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

hurtingbadly said:


> SomedayDig, the once a cheater, always cheater thing... I do wonder if once he saw he could cheat and then get away with it, if that makes it easier second time around. I think so.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I buy it to a degree. If they aren't caught, then YES, I believe the chances of them acting out is extremely high. If, however, they are caught and truly are remorseful and work to regain trust, I think the chances drop dramatically. When they know they're under a watchful eye...well, that does wonders.

And if they still cheat after that, then they aren't worth saving IMO.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

Back to Thor's earlier post...

So the guys bought you a BJ for your bachelor party that you turned down. (You're awesome BTW.) Yep... I will never trust a bachelor party! See, guys cover for each other and encourage this crap. Sorry.  

As to some of the reasons he gave me as to why he did this...
In addition to the various guesses listed above he did say he was weak, when he should have been strong. He did say he was thinking with his *&%$ instead of his head. He did tell me he wasn't thinking about me or the family, but he did know what he was doing was wrong. But, it was over almost as fast as it began. That he didn't think he was going to be involved in anything when his coworker brought the girl back. (Debatable, I know.) I will admit, he is kinda a weak person in general. Another part of our problem is we didn't deal with this back when it happened, so nine years have passed. Memories are still slowly coming back to me. 

I am still having trouble accepting this, even ten months later. I will admit that. And it is eating me up alive. He always played up the family guy reputation. What a joke. 

He definitely feels like a stranger to me now. I don't know how you can be with someone for so long and suddenly question everything about them. It's insane. And the fact it was a ONS... I know there were no feelings involved, but that's scary to me in itself. That he can risk everything for an orgasm with a total stranger?!? How little value did he place on me and our children? DISTURBING!!!

He has done everything you have mentioned as far as work including reading books, EXCEPT the most important part and that I believe is telling me the complete truth. He knows what trickle truth is, trust me. I've shown him enough. When I get very upset and question he can become mean and has been suicidal. I'm guessing that is from guilt cause he knows he hasn't been completely honest?

What upsets me is all four of the counselors we have seen either together or separate all had the attitude he shouldn't have told me. Is this the general advise out there?!? Personally, I think it has hurt my chances at getting the truth. 

Thanks for your help.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

SomedayDig said:


> I buy it to a degree. If they aren't caught, then YES, I believe the chances of them acting out is extremely high. If, however, they are caught and truly are remorseful and work to regain trust, I think the chances drop dramatically. When they know they're under a watchful eye...well, that does wonders.
> 
> And if they still cheat after that, then they aren't worth saving IMO.


I know. I think after this hell he wouldn't cheat again. And I keep him on GPS, he knows this. He's no longer traveling, has moved locations at work since this went down despite the salary drop...
*BUT*, what he did in those nine years I didn't know seems uncertain.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

So what does everyone think my three best questions would be for a poly given the situation?

I've got the ONS BJ story, the coworker he was friends with, a HPV positive test that he can't explain and I once found a flirty message from another coworker, although I think this is not an issue. Still, you never know apparently! 

My goal is to know if he told the truth about his ONS, if he had an affair with his coworker or if there were other transgressions.

I'm guessing...
Have you had sexual intercourse outside your marriage?
Have you received oral sex other than that one time?
I dunno.. Thoughts here?

I don't think a poly can give me clues as to his real feelings for his coworker. It's been dead for four years, but this is one of my major doubts.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

hurtingbadly said:


> I know. I think after this hell he wouldn't cheat again. And I keep him on GPS, he knows this. He's no longer traveling, has moved locations at work since this went down despite the salary drop...
> *BUT, what he did in those nine years I didn't know seems uncertain*.



Aye...there's the rub.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

I turned it down in a SOMEWHAT similar situation. I was on an overnight Army Guard drill, and four of us (2 men + 2 women) decided to sleep in the back of our truck (a big azz Army truck/van with lots of space) vs. on the ground in bags. As we're getting ready to go to sleep, the guy walks over and tells me that he's going to do one of the girls, and would I mind (they'd only be a few feet away from me)? I told him to have fun, and he told me that she said she'd do anything I wanted as well.

I was serious with my gf (wife now) at the time. I was 99% sure that she'd never know, but I still thought of her...and thought about following another dude, and thought about STDs, although the guy had protection to hand me. I passed. I said SOMEWHAT similar, b/c in my case there was no alcohol, and this girl was def no model.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

thunderstruck said:


> I turned it down in a SOMEWHAT similar situation. I was on an overnight Army Guard drill, and four of us (2 men + 2 women) decided to sleep in the back of our truck (a big azz Army truck/van with lots of space) vs. on the ground in bags. As we're getting ready to go to sleep, the guy walks over and tells me that he's going to do one of the girls, and would I mind (they'd only be a few feet away from me)? I told him to have fun, and he told me that she said she'd do anything I wanted as well.
> 
> I was serious with my gf (wife now) at the time. I was 99% sure that she'd never know, but I still thought of her...and thought about following another dude, and thought about STDs, although the guy had protection to hand me. I passed. I said SOMEWHAT similar, b/c in my case there was no alcohol, and this girl was def no model.


What is wrong with these girls?!? Totally no self respect. If they're gonna act like prostitutes they might as well go pro and get paid.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

hurtingbadly said:


> What is wrong with these girls?!? Totally no self respect. If they're gonna act like prostitutes they might as well go pro and get paid.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not all who*es do it for the money. Some do it because they like it.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

hurtingbadly said:


> What upsets me is all four of the counselors we have seen either together or separate all had the attitude he shouldn't have told me. Is this the general advise out there?!? Personally, I think it has hurt my chances at getting the truth.


I think it is all too common for counselors to support the don't tell theory. If the BS is fat dumb and happy, all the better to keep things smooth in the marriage.

Some therapists are for full disclosure, but I think they are a minority.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> Not all who*es do it for the money. Some do it because they like it.


A BJ to a stranger with nothing in return? Nah... That might be what guys want to think.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

Thor said:


> I think it is all too common for counselors to support the don't tell theory. If the BS is fat dumb and happy, all the better to keep things smooth in the marriage.
> 
> Some therapists are for full disclosure, but I think they are a minority.


That's whacked. I have a right to know what was being done behind my back in this marriage. A marriage is a partnership and I was left out of the meeting.


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## stoney1215 (Jun 18, 2012)

hurtingbadly said:


> Ten months in! Still struggling badly...
> 
> *IF* my WS is telling me the truth... (which I doubt.)
> As a guy, how easy would this be to fall into this mistake and is it forgivable in your opinion? I've asked other people who haven't been thru the BS hell we've all been thru and I get guys are pigs, blah, blah, blah... I'm sure those of you that are faithful would strongly disagree. But, would this be an easy mistake to fall into as a guy?
> ...



some hot young thing hitting on you when you are old makes men and women feel good and we all like it . that doesnt have anything to with cheating . i think the singer rhiana is georgous and would kill to have sex with her . if she was naked , in my bed , begging me to have sex with her , and no one would ever know there is absolutely no chance in hell i would do it . i love my wife , a would never even consider betraying her love her time and her trust for sex. she is worth infinity times more to me than sex with anyone . i am a grown man . one of my best friends is a woman who is georgous and i would love to have sex in every which way with her . bu i wouldnt betray my wife for sex with anyone . i go to the movies with my friend and we hang out just her and i all the time . i would not betray my wife for sex with anyone . 

i can not see how or where he made a mistake . he got a bj from a hot young girl and he still has you . and for 9 years all was well . the real question is this .... is it easy for a woman to make the mistake of staying in a relationship with someone she doesnt trust , and doesnt get what she want from . instead of being alone . if he really is suicidal you should have him commited and get away from him . think about how many times a man killed his wife and then himself . alone is always better than dead . and honestly if you didnt mean more to him than a blow job from a woman he didne even know do you think he could possible mean enough to him to stop him from killing himself . go make youself happy be single for 2 months feel what it is like to have 100 different guys hit on you and you flirt with them and even have sex with a couple of them . 

my mom always told me the best way to get over a guy i to get under a new one.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> You're NOT going to get your answers here on TAM. The only one with the answers is your husband, who is not being forthcoming. You are grasping at straws, trying everything you possibly can to stay with him, but you're on a sinking ship. He ISN'T REMORSEFUL.



You're totally right! Other than getting an array of statistics and similar heart rendering stories from our TAM constituency, the only real person that you can even begin to hope to get an answer from is indeed your husband.

And that's greatly provided that he wants to be honest enough to give you the truthful version or if he even wants to give it to you at all!


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

Wow, how did this old thread get pushed up? 

The story was a lie, I've learned lots since then. 

And still don't know everything...


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## confused55 (Apr 30, 2011)

hurtingbadly -

If you don't mind, what was the real story?

Are you still together?


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

It wasnt a mistake he made. It was a deliberate decsion and a bad one at that. I have had tons of chances and never even considered it a possibility. I have never even kissed a girl after being married in 35 years. And let me tell you I worked 24 hour shifts with a female EMT and no one was in the station but me and her. At the time she would have been an easy target as she had a lot of turmoil in her life and I could have been easy pickens to her as me and DW where having a lot of problems at that time. But there was no chance I would do that to my wife regardless.


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