# Husband suddenly initiating sex because of another woman



## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

Hi, everyone! Although I have posted a couple of publications so far, I can say I'm new to this forum and I find it thoroughly enlightening! 
My husband and I have been together for 4 years now. He doesn't initiate sex at all or if he ever does, that's on Saturday night, and that's if we haven't had a row previously. I'm already tired of seeking intimate attention; the struggle has been long and unrewarding. Anyway.
We run a business together (a training center), and last month there appeared this new client of ours - a young medical student with silicone lips, long hair and pervert glasses on. My husband initially didn't take any notice of her, he totally dislikes bimbos and women who have had some cosmetic alterations to their faces, but as their lessons progressed, he started speaking highly of her - how bright she was despite the superficial looks and so on. He began defending her whenever we were discussing her appearance and behaviour (she wasn't in the habit of saying "hi" to anyone when she turned up at the center, which I find really impolite, and so does he under normal circumstances).
One thing happened though, which I had never expected. He suddenly became potent and willing to have sex with me. He started cornering me anyplace he saw fit. He started initiating sex especially right after the lesson with her. I didn't know what to attribute this sudden interest in me to. It was insane! We spent nearly a whole month, having sex every day.
And then she passed her exam and left, as she didn't need our services any more. His passion subsided and returned to its usual zero point.
I would like to ask you the following, especially the gents here: might my husband have been fantasizing about this bimbo, might he have been somehow turned on by her looks? And because he couldn't have sex with her, might he have transferred his attraction to her onto me? It's very weird, this whole thing that happened. He would never admit it. Any time I raise the issue about our rare sexual encounters, it's the same - he keeps being defensive, gaslighting me, saying once every 10 days is a normal sexual dynamic, etc.
Just for the record, I take care of myself, I am fit and even good-looking. I have no cosmetic interventions, though, but I don't need any for the time being.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Yes to all your 'mights'.


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

Blondilocks said:


> Yes to all your 'mights'.


If the answer is "yes" to all my "mights", then what shall I do? Arrange an audition for suchlike bimbos from now on? 
What a grim prospect!


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

What are "pervert glasses"?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

What are pervert glasses?

Oops - I see that was already asked.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Blondilocks said:


> What are pervert glasses?
> 
> Oops - I see that was already asked.


ah ah ah - got there first!


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

She doesn't need the said glasses but wears them for the image - big dark-rimmed glasses (combined with enlarged lips and the dirty look - it works wonders, believe me!).


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Emily Bronte said:


> She doesn't need the said glasses but wears them for the image - big dark-rimmed glasses (combined with enlarged lips and the dirty look - *it works wonders, believe me!*).


I get it... the dirty teacher look... with a ruler in her hands, maybe... it doesn't work for me...


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Ask her if she wants a free membership or free training. 

We don't know you or your husband, and this may hurt, but it seems you have a case of her turning him on while he has lost interest in you. A lot of women refuse to believe that there is a big divide in men when it comes to sexual intercourse. Men can have sex as an emotional package, such as a husband and wife would ideally, or they can just screw for the physical pleasure. A lot of women say they can't have sex with a man unless they love him or have an emotional bond with him. Men (subject to their morals and commitments) can have sex with a woman they don't love. The generalizations are gross, but they're reasonably accurate.

How can you find out why he has lost interest in you? Would you and he consider marriage counseling with sex therapy? 

There's no way for us to know, but at least it sounds like he chose to jump you instead of her, for what that's worth.


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

Sfort said:


> Ask her if she wants a free membership or free training.
> 
> We don't know you or your husband, and this may hurt, but it seems you have a case of her turning him on while he has lost interest in you. A lot of women refuse to believe that there is a big divide in men when it comes to sexual intercourse. Men can have sex as an emotional package, such as a husband and wife would ideally, or they can just screw for the physical pleasure. A lot of women say they can't have sex with a man unless they love him or have an emotional bond with him. Men (subject to their morals and commitments) can have sex with a woman they don't love. The generalizations are gross, but they're reasonably accurate.
> 
> ...


As he finds nothing wrong with his attitude, he sends ME to therapy. But I'm not inclined to do so by myself. How can a therapist resolve my issue since it's him that doesn't want to have sex?! 
And, you are right - women can't have sex unless they are emotionally involved, the same can't be said about men.
But isn't it somehow paradoxical? You don't want to screw your wife generally, but at the same time it is still her that you want to do when good fantasy material presents itself. 
Please, tell me where the truth is.
I have always believed that you either desire someone and want to f.... them (against whatever odds) or you just don't.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Yes, he was very likely fantasizing about her — and you were available. Happens a lot more than women realize. That’s the truth.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Openminded said:


> Yes, he was very likely fantasizing about her — and you were available. Happens a lot more than women realize. That’s the truth.


**** like this makes me glad I'm currently single. Makes me think maybe I'd like to stay single.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Openminded said:


> Happens a lot more than women realize. That’s the truth.


And it's not the same as cheating, and it's not necessarily a bad thing. Some people believe that fantasies are helpful. I'm not sure yet.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Ask him straight up and tell him you know what he was up to. His reaction will tell you everything you need to know. If he has lost interest then do a hard 180 on him and consider your options, why be with a man like this, it will eventually erode any self -respect you have. There are men out there who would be more than happy to have you as their lady.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

It is certainly possible that she or any number of people may have given him a little boost in sexual energy or some kind of hormonal rush or something. 

It's part of being human and humans have various attractions and desires throughout their lives and even throughout the day. It's normal. It's healthy. It means we're alive and functioning. 

You sound hung up on this chick and are focused on her, but for all we know it may have been someone else that triggered his little boost in energy. Or maybe it was he got some good night's sleep or something in his diet at that time or he got some good exercise or more natural sunlight or fresh air or any one or combination of 562,936 other things. Unlock the mystery and find the right formula for libido and Jeff Bezos and Bill Gates will come begging you for money. 

Any chance there may have been something about YOU that triggered a little boost of his mojo? Did you dress any different? Any more or less make up or something different with your hair? Did you get a shiny new pedicure and he has a bit of a secret foot fetish? Could your jealousy of her have caused you to become more sexual?

Sometimes even good sex can trigger a boost in mojo and bring about more good sex. Did you have a particularly good romp one night and that may have triggered some subsequent particularly lively encounters?

My point here is there is a million different things that influence someone's mojo and it doesn't necessarily have to be who or what you think it is. 

Now is it possible that she may have turned him on and given him a boost of hormones and desire which he then turned to you to fullfill? Yes absolutely. My wife and I have ravaged each other a lot of times after someone else has given us a little boost of energy - it's a GOOD thing!! 

We can't help but be turned on by some of the people and some of the situations we run into as we go about our lives. 
It's part of being alive and part of being human. 

But turning towards our partner with those desires and feelings and hormones is a POSITIVE AND HEALTHY way to deal with it! 

Would you rather he locked himself in the bathroom and rubbed one out himself? 

Would you rather he actually pursued HER with his desire? 

If more people did turn to their partners with their desires and attractions instead of pursuing other people or even taking matters into their own hands (if you know what I mean) there would be a whole lot less infidelity and less dead bedrooms in the world. 

However part of turning towards one's own mate with that energy requires feeling SAFE to do so. If that partner shames them or is angered or becomes a green-eyed monster at the thought of them looking at someone else,,, then they are going to rub one out by themselves in the bathroom and you'll get nothing. 

Now please understand that I am not saying that people should come home and tell their partner that so and so turned them on so they have sex with you now. I'm not saying that at all. That would be pretty crass and jerkish (unless the partner digs it and is into that kind of thing) 

But if you get some hormones during the course of the day because someone has flipped a few switches for whatever reason, sure, come home and give your partner a few nudge nudge wink winks and let them be the beneficiary of your energy. You don't have to explicitly tell them that someone else triggered your mojo. let them be the full beneficiary of it. 

And likewise if your partner comes home with a little extra twinkle in his/her eye, take full advantage of it and claim the full benefit of it yourself and in the process that will remind him/her why it's always best to bring that mojo home with them ;-)


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

She was definitely winding him up. Hopefully that was the extent of what she was doing to him.

This sexual wind up happens with both sexes and can be mostly harmless fun as long as the relationship is otherwise healthy.

The real problem is your marriage is not all that solid to begin with and your husband has a malfunction to say the least.

I am curious about your ages but it's obvious your husband has no physiological problems.

Given how much he saw to you when he was wound up, it seems ridiculous that he tried to say that once every ten days is normal (it's not btw).

I don't know that there is an actual number but I believe most healthy couples are probably having sex at least once or twice a week and often more than that.

His problem is obviously psychological. 

How did you initially get past his "dud in the bed routine", or was he more passionate in the beginning?


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> It is certainly possible that she or any number of people may have given him a little boost in sexual energy or some kind of hormonal rush or something.
> 
> It's part of being human and humans have various attractions and desires throughout their lives and even throughout the day. It's normal. It's healthy. It means we're alive and functioning.
> 
> ...


I couldn't agree more!

After all, my husband just succumbed to a fantasy, he didn't go and cheat on me. 
And, yes, I didn't, in the least, mind the ensuing attention. 
I also believe that by forcing things, nothing could be achieved. 
However, I still wonder - why me? 
Why didn't he want to screw her? She was a bit up for it.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Now all that being said, my primary concern is the lack of intimacy and passion on a normal basis. 

Getting a little hormone boost because someone else flipped a couple of arousal switches is not necessarily a bad thing in a fundamentally healthy relationship, but that should always be like a tasty little snack now and then and not a steady diet if you know what I mean. There is nothing wrong with a Snickers now and then to treat the palate, but the diet should be 3 squares a day with meat and vegetables. 

I would be more concerned and looking into why the regular routine is lacking and that you are only getting some proper attention when someone else is flipping the switches. 

I'd be more concerned about that rather that some other gals pervert glasses.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Emily Bronte said:


> However, I still wonder - why me?
> Why didn't he want to screw her? She was a bit up for it.


If you are having to ask those questions, there are some issues that need to be addressed. 

Turning towards one's mate instead of trying to jump on everyone that catches your eye,,, isn't that what marriage and monogamy are for????? Isn't that the foundation of a civilized society?


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

ConanHub said:


> She was definitely winding him up. Hopefully that was the extent of what she was doing to him.
> 
> This sexual wind up happens with both sexes and can be mostly harmless fun as long as the relationship is otherwise healthy.
> 
> ...


It's a conundrum to me! 
I have been trying to decipher it for years. On the one hand, when we have sex he keeps saying "I love everything about you", "I love your body", etc. I please him with all sorts of kinky things - there are no taboos in the bedroom. And yet, no initiative on his part. Whenever I raise the subject, I turn out to be 
non-understanding and ungrateful.
I'm at my wit's end.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Openminded said:


> Yes, he was very likely fantasizing about her — and you were available. Happens a lot more than women realize. That’s the truth.


Truth be known, I am sure women do it A LOT more than men.


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> If you are having to ask those questions, there are some issues that need to be addressed.
> 
> Turning towards one's mate instead of trying to jump on everyone that catches your eye,,, isn't that what marriage and monogamy are for????? Isn't that the foundation of a civilized society?


Yes, that's what monogamy is all about.
I have shared my story here before. 
In a nutshell, he is my second husband - we had a baby 2 years ago. I divorced my previous husband because of him. We had had an intense sex life before the baby was born. Then I don't know what snapped in him. I didn't put on weight, I didn't neglect myself...
It's been a really hurtful topic for me ever since, alas, with no solution.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Emily Bronte said:


> Why didn't he want to screw her? She was a bit up for it.


Maybe he did.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Emily Bronte said:


> It's a conundrum to me!
> I have been trying to decipher it for years. On the one hand, when we have sex he keeps saying "I love everything about you", "I love your body", etc. I please him with all sorts of kinky things - there are no taboos in the bedroom. And yet, no initiative on his part. Whenever I raise the subject, I turn out to be
> non-understanding and ungrateful.
> I'm at my wit's end.


Trust I've been there done that and have a whole closet full of the t-shirts. 

I think some of this may simply be part of the HD vs LD dynamics that take place when there is a disparity in sexual thermostat settings. 

It sounds like you have good sex when you have it and it sounds like he is engaged and dig'n it when you have it......... he just wants it less often that you'd like. 

I'm the say way, I have a few things I'm not into and won't do, but other than that as long as it is legal and not painful or harmful, I am down. And unless I was collapsing from exhaustion and starvation/dehydration and as long as the house was not on fire and no one has arterial bleeding, I would never say no and never turn down someone that wanted some love and affection. I simply don't believe denying someone. 

So what I think can happen is he has no real reason to initiate or come knocking on your door much because he knows that you will be knocking at his door in just a matter of time, and he knows that any time he wants some, you will be at the ready and so there for he really doesn't need to lift a finger much. He's like the rat that gets the piece of food every single time it pushes the lever. Eventually the rat is conditioned to only push the lever when he really hungry, otherwise he doesn't mess it. 

If you want the rat to push the lever all the time, you dispense the food sparsely and at very random and irregular intervals. Do that and the rat will do nothing but push the lever all day because he knows that his food is dependent on him pushing the lever but he can never predict when or how much he'll get so he just keeps pushing it. 

In other words your husband has gotten lazy and complacent. He doesn't initiate or put in much effort because he doesn't have to and knows that any time he might want to have sex, you will be there ready, willing and able. And he knows that if you aren't hitting him up at the moment, you will be shortly. He doesn't really have to do anything.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Emily Bronte said:


> Yes, that's what monogamy is all about.
> I have shared my story here before.
> In a nutshell, he is my second husband - we had a baby 2 years ago. I divorced my previous husband because of him. We had had an intense sex life before the baby was born. Then I don't know what snapped in him. I didn't put on weight, I didn't neglect myself...
> It's been a really hurtful topic for me ever since, alas, with no solution.


Ester Parel says it's one of the great ironies of the universe. Mother Nature makes us all horny and crave sex and yearn to mate with someone so that we reproduce and secure the next generation and perpetuate the species. 

But the moment Baby arrives, the first thing it does is destroy the desire that created it in the first place.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> Truth be known, I am sure women do it A LOT more than men.


Who knows. But since she’s the one asking, I responded about what men do.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Emily Bronte said:


> I divorced my previous husband because of him.


I don't see where this was mentioned in your previous posts in another thread.

You did mention that you were the one constantly refusing your ex-h. A little ironic?


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> Trust I've been there done that and have a whole closet full of the t-shirts.
> 
> I think some of this may simply be part of the HD vs LD dynamics that take place when there is a disparity in sexual thermostat settings.
> 
> ...


*Oldshirt, *my thoughts exactly! You couldn't have said it better! Thank you.


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

Blondilocks said:


> I don't see where this was mentioned in your previous posts in another thread.
> 
> You did mention that you were the one constantly refusing your ex-h. A little ironic?


"A little ironic" is an understatement. I keep thinking about it a lot. 
Of course, destiny has nothing to do with it. It's just human relationships, I guess.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Emily Bronte said:


> Yes, that's what monogamy is all about.
> I have shared my story here before.
> In a nutshell, he is my second husband - we had a baby 2 years ago. I divorced my previous husband because of him. We had had an intense sex life before the baby was born. Then I don't know what snapped in him. I didn't put on weight, I didn't neglect myself...
> It's been a really hurtful topic for me ever since, alas, with no solution.


Plenty of men have enthusiastic sex with the same woman every day for decades no matter how many children their wife has. But apparently your husband isn’t one of them. Maybe some new woman will catch his eye now and then and you’ll get the result of that but that’s likely the best he can do.


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## K3itty (May 12, 2021)

There's a saying, it doesn't matter where you get your appetite as long as you eat at home. 

This particular article refers to online attraction leading to increased attraction to your primary partner in real life. But it's similar concept to your situation. 

www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/in-the-name-love/200812/whetting-your-appetite-outside-while-eating-home%3famp


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> I have a few things I'm not into and won't do


Pegging?


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Emily Bronte said:


> ......In a nutshell, he is my second husband - we had a baby 2 years ago. I divorced my previous husband because of him. We had had an intense sex life before the baby was born. Then I don't know what snapped in him. I didn't put on weight, I didn't neglect myself...
> It's been a really hurtful topic for me ever since, alas, with no solution.


Since you are in the medical field, have you ever heard of the Madonna - Who#e syndrome? A child that you love and have bonded to, can change the way you view the world and the woman who is now nurturing that child some view much differently than the person you created the child with. 

Sit down with him and really talk to him. Tell him that while you are also the mother of his child, you still need to be his lover and you miss the passion you use to share with him.

Good luck.


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

Yes, I've heard about it and I have attributed his slump in libido to it. People with my problem would agree - there isn't anything that we haven't thought of or done to remedy the situation. And, yes, we have had numerous conversations, especially in the beginning, when I first noticed this alienation. I took it very, very hard. It was a great blow to my self-esteem as a woman, who is in love on top of that.
He denies having changed at all, keeps explaining to me that now we have a baby to look after (as if I don't know), keeps giving me presents, little hugs and kisses; keeps phoning me during the day, keeps insisting on my company ...
However, over the last 2 years sex has always been connected with some hitches and issues of various nature - be it uncomfortable circumstances, fear of unstable erection, quarrels that nip whatever desire there may have been in the bud and so on. And he keeps swearing that he loves me, loves my body, I am the one and only; when in the end everything goes smoothly, he has pretty intense orgasms. But rarely initiates. And even Saturdays aren't sure any more! (I mentioned that he wants us to have sex then only).
I'll repeat myself but does sex really require such hard work and motivation?


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

Emily Bronte said:


> Yes, I've heard about it and I have attributed his slump in libido to it. People with my problem would agree - there isn't anything that we haven't thought of or done to remedy the situation. And, yes, we have had numerous conversations, especially in the beginning, when I first noticed this alienation. I took it very, very hard. It was a great blow to my self-esteem as a woman, who is in love on top of that.
> He denies having changed at all, keeps explaining to me that now we have a baby to look after (as if I don't know), keeps giving me presents, little hugs and kisses; keeps phoning me during the day, keeps insisting on my company ...
> However, over the last 2 years sex has always been connected with some hitches and issues of various nature - be it uncomfortable circumstances, fear of unstable erection, quarrels that nip whatever desire there may have been in the bud and so on. And he keeps swearing that he loves me, loves my body, I am the one and only; when in the end everything goes smoothly, he has pretty intense orgasms. But rarely initiates. And even Saturdays aren't sure any more! (I mentioned that he wants us to have sex then only).
> I'll repeat myself but does sex really require such hard work and motivation?


It's tricky when there's a gap in desire. You do start to feel unloved even with all the things he is doing to show you he loves you. I remember this feeling. But my then husband wasn't doing any of the other loving stuff to demonstrate he wants to be there. Are you in marriage counseling? So often people choose it when it's too late but I wonder if couples who have a great bond but are losing that important love language of intimacy might not benefit from it while things are still good between you two. Might be worth a shot.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Openminded said:


> Yes, he was very likely fantasizing about her — and you were available. Happens a lot more than women realize. That’s the truth.


Sad:-(


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Emily Bronte said:


> I'll repeat myself but does sex really require such hard work and motivation?


Absolutely not but it highly depends on the people involved.

For me the motivation comes several times a day. If my wife was on the same page it would be awesome.


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

joannacroc said:


> It's tricky when there's a gap in desire. You do start to feel unloved even with all the things he is doing to show you he loves you. I remember this feeling. But my then husband wasn't doing any of the other loving stuff to demonstrate he wants to be there. Are you in marriage counseling? So often people choose it when it's too late but I wonder if couples who have a great bond but are losing that important love language of intimacy might not benefit from it while things are still good between you two. Might be worth a shot.


I already feel unloved.
Oscar Wilde said that beauty needs no explanation. I would say - a lack of desire for someone needs no explanation too. You either want your partner or you don't. As simple as that. We aren't discussing any higher feelings or emotional nuances here.
I told him to stop kissing me and hugging me if he can't give me what I actually need because such behaviour upsets me even more.
He wouldn't hear of counseling. In my country, Bulgaria, seeing a marriage counselor is not very widespread. People here, but especially men, believe that such things are plain hocus-pocus.
So, I guess I'm stuck. The only thing that can happen over time so that I stop feeling any pain is for me to become inured, to stop loving him. They say love only lasts 3 years. Well, I'm in my fourth one. I guess deliverance is round the corner


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

I’m probably a fool but I’ve never lost my attraction for my wife after almost thirty years. I really think many graces flow down as part of the sacrament of marriage. Was his first marriage annulled? Were you married in the church?

If not I’d say you can only expect things to follow “natural” course. So sorry, but maybe there’s still time to correct it.


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

CatholicDad said:


> I’m probably a fool but I’ve never lost my attraction for my wife after almost thirty years. I really think many graces flow down as part of the sacrament of marriage. Was his first marriage annulled? Were you married in the church?
> 
> If not I’d say you can only expect things to follow “natural” course. So sorry, but maybe there’s still time to correct it.


He had never been married before me. I had. 
(I got married to my first husband in the church.) When I was marrying my current husband, he was adamant that we would never have a church ceremony. And that's what happened.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Since he wasn’t married before maybe he didn’t realize how sex in marriage can play out long-term. Usually the complaints here are about women losing interest but you’re definitely not the first wife to have a husband lose interest. Unfortunately there are very rarely good solutions when it’s the husband that’s the problem.


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

Openminded said:


> Since he wasn’t married before maybe he didn’t realize how sex in marriage can play out long-term. Usually the complaints here are about women losing interest but you’re definitely not the first wife to have a husband lose interest. Unfortunately there are very rarely good solutions when it’s the husband that’s the problem.


What you say has crossed my mind too. 
Since we got married and started living together, he has become kind of lazy, probably because now I'm always available. Once he used to be a gym rat, now he eats chips all day and barely walks to work (we live only 15 minutes away from our office). Once he insisted that we must have sex every single day, no matter what, now ... you know my story. Once he couldn't bear the thought of ever hurting my feelings, now he says he has learnt his lessons and knows better. We are able to go days on end without speaking to each other, whereas in the past he couldn't go to sleep without us burying the hatchet first.
I'm tired of making scenes because of our starving sex life - they are humiliating, useless reminders that things will never be the same again. What happens is that right after the row he takes me to bed, but knowing how it has been achieved, I hardly ever enjoy sex wholeheartedly any more. 
I am new to this forum. That's why I would like to ask you, guys - is there an LD-HD marriage story here that has actually had a happy ending?


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Emily Bronte said:


> After all, my husband just succumbed to a fantasy, he didn't go and cheat on me.
> And, yes, I didn't, in the least, mind the ensuing attention.
> I also believe that by forcing things, nothing could be achieved.
> However, I still wonder - why me?
> Why didn't he want to screw her? She was a bit up for it.


I'll toss my 2¢ into the discussion. The behavior you described seems a lot like hysterical bonding. This often occurs once an affair happens or at the perceived threat of it happening. The one with the increased libido feels threatened and engages in lots of sex to essentially mark their territory. 

This is very similar to where lovers might talk about past lovers. By one partner telling the story it might elicit a sudden arousal in the person listening to the story. This response is somewhat of nature's defense tactic to encourage someone to mark their territory when they sense competition. 

OK back to your husband. Perhaps the presence of this other woman made his relationship with you feel threatened for some reason. Some possibilities might include:

He feared she may tempt him and ruin his marriage
He was attracted to her but perhaps she talked about having a boyfriend which would elicit a sense of a competing male which he turned that energy towards you
Perhaps this woman was not attracted to the husband but to his wife, thus the husband's need to mark his territory
Perhaps the husband worried his wife would be attracted to this other woman, thus his need to mark his territory
and so on...

My point being here that if your husband was experiencing hysterical bonding and got a raging libido as a result. It was because something made him feel threatened and a need to protect his territory. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Emily Bronte said:


> What you say has crossed my mind too.
> Since we got married and started living together, he has become kind of lazy, probably because now I'm always available. Once he used to be a gym rat, now he eats chips all day and barely walks to work (we live only 15 minutes away from our office). Once he insisted that we must have sex every single day, no matter what, now ... you know my story. Once he couldn't bear the thought of ever hurting my feelings, now he says he has learnt his lessons and knows better. We are able to go days on end without speaking to each other, whereas in the past he couldn't go to sleep without us burying the hatchet first.
> I'm tired of making scenes because of our starving sex life - they are humiliating, useless reminders that things will never be the same again. What happens is that right after the row he takes me to bed, but knowing how it has been achieved, I hardly ever enjoy sex wholeheartedly any more.
> I am new to this forum. That's why I would like to ask you, guys - is there an LD-HD marriage story here that has actually had a happy ending?


With female HD and male LD? I can’t think of one but I read so much about drive mismatches that it all starts running together after a number of years.


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

badsanta said:


> I'll toss my 2¢ into the discussion. The behavior you described seems a lot like hysterical bonding. This often occurs once an affair happens or at the perceived threat of it happening. The one with the increased libido feels threatened and engages in lots of sex to essentially mark their territory.
> 
> This is very similar to where lovers might talk about past lovers. By one partner telling the story it might elicit a sudden arousal in the person listening to the story. This response is somewhat of nature's defense tactic to encourage someone to mark their territory when they sense competition.
> 
> ...


*Badsanta*, thank you for this out-of-the-box perspective on my problem!
I begin to take everything that happened like this: the woman in question has somehow served as a stimulus quite similar to such that a man can get from a porn video. You watch, imagine and would like to relive the fantasy later on with whoever is on hand (me in this case). After all, fantasies are free of charge. 
He would never, ever confess to it! Consider me pronounced totally crazy.


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## nekonamida (Feb 21, 2017)

Emily Bronte said:


> Yes, that's what monogamy is all about.
> I have shared my story here before.
> In a nutshell, he is my second husband - we had a baby 2 years ago. I divorced my previous husband because of him. We had had an intense sex life before the baby was born. Then I don't know what snapped in him. I didn't put on weight, I didn't neglect myself...
> It's been a really hurtful topic for me ever since, alas, with no solution.


Are you saying you cheated on your first husband with your current husband? Because that's an important piece of information that may explain why the excitement for him wore off quickly when reality and responsibility set in.

Also I was hoping by pervert glasses you meant something a woman might wear to a bachelorette party. Or at least the classic secretary look. Pretty sad to know the reality is that they sound closer to what Steve Urkle wears. Maybe he's practically asking for it too or maybe you're a bit jealous assuming he wasn't actually sleeping with her.


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

nekonamida said:


> Are you saying you cheated on your first husband with your current husband? Because that's an important piece of information that may explain why the excitement for him wore off quickly when reality and responsibility set in.
> 
> Also I was hoping by pervert glasses you meant something a woman might wear to a bachelorette party. Or at least the classic secretary look. Pretty sad to know the reality is that they sound closer to what Steve Urkle wears. Maybe he's practically asking for it too or maybe you're a bit jealous assuming he wasn't actually sleeping with her.


The feelings between me and my previous husband had long gone cold and we had already been contemplating divorce when I met my current husband. It's not that I just quickly replaced one for the other - it's rather I finally took the plunge and put an end to a disastrous marriage. But it was a long and painful process. 
You are right about one thing though - when reality and responsibility set in, things between us changed. He may claim that marriage and fatherhood duties are not a burden but I can see sometimes he hardly copes.
As for the "pervert" glasses, I'm not a native speaker and in my language the same word is used for something that is able to turn someone on, like "dirty" for example


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Emily Bronte said:


> That's why I would like to ask you, guys - is there an LD-HD marriage story here that has actually had a happy ending?


I don’t remember one here with a HD woman. If you search Reddit deadbedrooms for success stories you can maybe find a couple since that sub has many many HD women with LD men.

I would say I am happy with where I am at now. I am at a good enough equilibrium and have been stable for enough months I can’t see things changing without physical issues. If something changes I feel like we have the tools to fix it.

There are things I would like that I am still working on but even with that I feel like I can get it going just by directing her and telling her exactly what to do.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Emily Bronte said:


> *Badsanta*, thank you for this out-of-the-box perspective on my problem!
> I begin to take everything that happened like this: the woman in question has somehow served as a stimulus quite similar to such that a man can get from a porn video. You watch, imagine and would like to relive the fantasy later on with whoever is on hand (me in this case). After all, fantasies are free of charge.
> He would never, ever confess to it! Consider me pronounced totally crazy.


If your theory is true, offer to take your husband to a strip club and buy him a lap dance. You don't even need to actually go to a strip club, just the idea of you mentioning that should be enough to do it. If he gets aroused at the idea and responds by initiating sex with you, you have proven your point. 

Now to my point, if you get no reaction to that, then tell your husband that you want to buy yourself a lap dance and that he can just watch. Ask if he is OK with that? If THAT finally gets him aroused, it is because he feels threatened and needs to mark his territory (meaning you!).


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

*Bad Santa, *the very thought of offering the upright, decent person, serving as my husband, a lap dance by a stripper brings me out both in tears and laugher. Because he thinks the problem is entirely mine, he will say: "Ok, crazy, always dissatisfied woman, go and ask other men how often they .... their wives! Why are you acting even more crazy than you are?!"

Honestly, right now I'm down in the dumps.
Last night he screamed at me, out of the blue: "How long will you be sulking now? You have been looking at me strangely for 3 weeks and I know why!" (We haven't had sex for 3 weeks, me trying to pretend everything is normal).
Then he went to sleep on the sofa in the living room.
What do you do with / about a person like this?

I didn't mention the fact that he is only 30 years old.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Sorry to hear this Emily. The thing is it doesn’t matter what other people are doing or what is “average” because you’re not them.


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## Tested_by_stress (Apr 1, 2021)

Just for the record, after 30 yrs (this coming July) together, my wife doesn't have much of a libido. If the sight of someone caused her to want to jump my bones at this point, it's stick his picture on our bedroom door lol.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Emily Bronte said:


> The feelings between me and my previous husband had long gone cold and we had already been contemplating divorce when I met my current husband. It's not that I just quickly replaced one for the other - it's rather I finally took the plunge and put an end to a disastrous marriage. But it was a long and painful process.
> You are right about one thing though - when reality and responsibility set in, things between us changed. He may claim that marriage and fatherhood duties are not a burden but I can see sometimes he hardly copes.


I'm just going to throw this out there for some perspective. It may seem a little counter intuitive at times but bear with me. 

Men that get with married women, typically do so because when you hook up with married women you get the sex and the passion and fun and games........ while the husband unclogs the toilet and fixes the flat tires and mows the lawn and kills the spiders around the house. 

And in many ways the same can be said for the wayward wife - she gives her best sexually to the other man and treats him like a big, hot stud and then turns around and sneers at her husband that the 'check engine' light is coming on in her car and when is he ever going to get around to doing something about it. 

Often times the fastest way to kill an affair is to get a divorce. The fastest and quickest way to get another man to lose interest in a married woman is to make her a single woman. 

Most relationships that began as affairs do not last. Very few in fact. Affairs are fun and passionate and sexy and don't come with the downers of relationships like changing diapers, cleaning up puke, making doctor's appointments, unclogging toilets, going out into the night to look for diarrhea medicine etc etc etc etc etc etc etc 

A single guy pursuing a single chick knows and accepts and possibly even wishes to have a full service relationship that will include those things. 

A guy hooking up with a married woman, is doing it specifically to avoid those things and just have the fun and excitement of sex. 

Now that he is in the marriage and now that he is the husband and he is the one that has to kill spiders and deal with diapers and vomit and it's not all fun and games anymore, he may have simply lost interest due to being bogged down with all this other stuff. 

So maybe when this other chick came along, maybe it did stir up something inside him. Maybe he got a little bit of that hormone boost and spark back. Maybe he got a taste of what it feels like to feel a bit sexy again. 

And as I and some of the others have said, as long as he bringing his appetite home to eat - Go for it!!!


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> Affairs are fun and passionate and sexy


That's dynamite right there. When a BS sees that, it's tough. The reality is, it's true.


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> I'm just going to throw this out there for some perspective. It may seem a little counter intuitive at times but bear with me.
> 
> Men that get with married women, typically do so because when you hook up with married women you get the sex and the passion and fun and games........ while the husband unclogs the toilet and fixes the flat tires and mows the lawn and kills the spiders around the house.
> 
> ...


Your post really made me smile, even laugh at times (especially at the image of the husband unclogging the toilet), thank you! 
What you say is true about most of the relationships that start like this. However, in my case, it wasn't me who wanted to quickly get a divorce (I may have procrastinated a little bit more, knowing how indecisive I am), quickly enter into another marriage and quickly have a baby. But he insisted! He started even setting deadlines for me - either I divorce and marry him or we shall say goodbye to each other. Strange as it may sound, he did want to marry, he didn't want to just date. And he can be really convincing to the extent of being controlling. I wanted some space and time after the divorce, but no - in order not to lose him, I remarried shortly afterwards. We hadn't lived together before that and I envisaged all sorts of problems, but I didn't foresee the lack of sex. At first I couldn't believe it was happening. And after the period of denial, I had to accept reality.
The chick with the silicone lips (it's a craze in my country right now - nearly all young women have their lips enlarged) may have turned him on (that he would never admit) probably not because she's single but because she's somebody else who he hasn't conquered yet. If they had had a relationship, believe me he would have proposed to her too!


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Yes. She was his porn. What I find shocking is that after the pattern you two have established that he would have the nerve to even attempt that. I mean doesn't he think that would raise some questions and that it would be insulting to you. I suppose if you were sex starved then it was better than nothing. He's just pretending you're her while he's getting himself off.


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Yes. She was his porn. What I find shocking is that after the pattern you two have established that he would have the nerve to even attempt that. I mean doesn't he think that would raise some questions and that it would be insulting to you. I suppose if you were sex starved then it was better than nothing. He's just pretending you're her while he's getting himself off.


What drives me crazy is the complete lack of clarity - why did he change so suddenly. He says I'm crazy, sends me to a jigolo, completely refuses to see my point. His last accusation was that I want to kill him because "driving him crazy, I raise his blood pressure."


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

He's 30 and acting like this? Pull the plug.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Emily Bronte said:


> *Bad Santa, *the very thought of offering the upright, decent person, serving as my husband, a lap dance by a stripper brings me out both in tears and laugher. Because he thinks the problem is entirely mine, he will say: "Ok, crazy, always dissatisfied woman, go and ask other men how often they .... their wives! Why are you acting even more crazy than you are?!"


Well THERE is your problem right there. You seem too vulnerable and willing to play the role of the person causing the problem. If he yelled at you for sulking and you did not defend yourself, then that only validates your husband's projecting that you are the problem. 

Relationships require this notion of unrealistic overconfidence as this magic thing that creates a little spark. Awkwardly you can be overconfident about your ability to have low confidence and it will have the same effect. For instance when your husband asks how long you are going to sulk, you can smile and say the you will probably continue sulking well after you have reincarnated as the Dalai Lama because you are that good at sulking! 

Was there an element of confidence when this other woman was around your husband? Perhaps that may have been it because you trusted your husband and did not feel threatened by her (or perhaps you did and didn't show it).

My point here is that good self confidence is an important dynamic that helps relationships. If you can pull it off it helps to be unrealistically overconfident. Easier said than done when you feel like crap though. 

Badsanta


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Emily Bronte said:


> What drives me crazy is the complete lack of clarity - why did he change so suddenly. He says I'm crazy, sends me to a jigolo, completely refuses to see my point. His last accusation was that I want to kill him because "driving him crazy, I raise his blood pressure."


He knows what he's doing. He's gaslighting you. If you're not familiar with the term look it up and read up about it because it is the favorite tool of abusive spouses and cheaters.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Emily Bronte said:


> - is there an LD-HD marriage story here that has actually had a happy ending?


I've been married for 30+ years and our sex drives have rarely aligned. Of course when we were teenagers we could do it all day, every day. But after 30 years of job changes, moving, having kids, etc. things can go up and down. When we were younger and just prior to having kids my wife's sex drive was higher, but I was very consumed by my work. Sex wasn't absent, but it just wasn't a priority for me at the time. That dynamic has waivered over the years. Now we've completely flip flopped. The kids are all away at college and it seemed to create resurgence in my sex drive. My wife isn't completely uninterested, but she could definitely go a while without it. The two biggest things that have helped us is talking about it in very non-judgmental ways and me learning how to deal with the rejection. There is nothing wrong with the LD person and the more you press them about why, this or that, the worse I think you will make it. At the same time the HD person has to let the LD person know how important that physical intimacy is to them.

I've found a lot of useful information on the website the links below are from. I would encourage you and your husband to read these articles. 









SWM 047 - Spontaneous desire is a blessing - Uncovering Intimacy


Feel like having a high sex drive is a burden? Wonder why God made you this way? Here are some reasons I think having spontaneous desire is a blessing.




www.uncoveringintimacy.com












SWM 046 - Responsive desire is a blessing - Uncovering Intimacy


Responsive desire isn't an abnormality, disability or curse. It's a blessing. Once you learn to work with it, it can actually lead to an amazing sex life.




www.uncoveringintimacy.com












Being more skilled at initiation - Uncovering Intimacy


Do you use skillful initiation in your marriage? Don't know? You might want to check out this post to see if you can improve how you initiate sex.




www.uncoveringintimacy.com












Being more skilled at rejection - Uncovering Intimacy


Want to know how to reject your spouse in a way that doesn't hurt their feelings but ensures they don't ask for sex again? Become more skilled at rejection.




www.uncoveringintimacy.com





It sounds like your husband really does love you, so try not to give up.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

BigDaddyNY said:


> learning how to deal with the rejection. There is nothing wrong with the LD person and the more you press them about why, this or that, the worse I think you will make it. At the same time the HD person has to let the LD person know how important that physical intimacy is to them.


That is excellent advise right there. 

Having desire in my opinion can come across as a form of neediness and/or codependence. That can be perceived as a rather negative attribute from someone that is little or no desire and trigger problems. One of the ways to overcome this is to learn better ways for rejection to occur. This is perhaps one of the most useful tools to transform desire from being a problem into something that is positive. And by positive I mean the idea of embracing a relationship challenge as an opportunity to learn more about yourselves as a couple and rebuild each other's self confidence. 

It is not easy and requires leaning into the discomfort!

Badsanta


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I've been married for 30+ years and our sex drives have rarely aligned. Of course when we were teenagers we could do it all day, every day. But after 30 years of job changes, moving, having kids, etc. things can go up and down. When we were younger and just prior to having kids my wife's sex drive was higher, but I was very consumed by my work. Sex wasn't absent, but it just wasn't a priority for me at the time. That dynamic has waivered over the years. Now we've completely flip flopped. The kids are all away at college and it seemed to create resurgence in my sex drive. My wife isn't completely uninterested, but she could definitely go a while without it. The two biggest things that have helped us is talking about it in very non-judgmental ways and me learning how to deal with the rejection. There is nothing wrong with the LD person and the more you press them about why, this or that, the worse I think you will make it. At the same time the HD person has to let the LD person know how important that physical intimacy is to them.
> 
> I've found a lot of useful information on the website the links below are from. I would encourage you and your husband to read these articles.
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot for the encouragement and the useful links!
He is absolutely adamant that he loves me but refuses, and I quote here, "to be forced to have sex by schedule".
Other words from today: "If I didn't want you, I would have left you by now."
Having in mind his thorny personality, he is really capable of such a thing. But do I have to feel grateful?
'm at the end of my tether.

I look up to couples like you!
May you live in the same harmony for many years ahead!


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

badsanta said:


> That is excellent advise right there.
> 
> Having desire in my opinion can come across as a form of neediness and/or codependence. That can be perceived as a rather negative attribute from someone that is little or no desire and trigger problems. One of the ways to overcome this is to learn better ways for rejection to occur. This is perhaps one of the most useful tools to transform desire from being a problem into something that is positive. And by positive I mean the idea of embracing a relationship challenge as an opportunity to learn more about yourselves as a couple and rebuild each other's self confidence.
> 
> ...


I like your posts! They sound very professional! Thank you!

I have traces of codependence and a lack of self-esteem in my character. I look good, I am good at my career, I don't depend on anyone financially, which gives me confidence. And still, when it comes to my relationships, I have always felt somewhat inferior, shy and too accommodating. I know that if I want to be successful in my marriage, I have to come across as a strong person able to emotionally cope on her own. I try to cover how needy and desperate I sometimes feel. I stand my ground and defend my beliefs and opinions vehemently, for which he calls me *****y, but love makes me weak and I hate myself for this. 
I have read a lot of psychological literature and have established that my husband tends to be a narcissist while I have some borderline traits. They say that these two types are attracted to each other, I would say - in a poisonous union.


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

Blondilocks said:


> He's 30 and acting like this? Pull the plug.


When I have suffered enough, but not earlier (because I know myself very well), the plug will be pulled with a deafening noise


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Emily Bronte said:


> He is absolutely adamant that he loves me but refuses, and I quote here, "to be forced to have sex by schedule".


Scheduling sex is probably the most useful exercise that a couple can do! 

My wife complained that she wanted sex to occur naturally when we were having problems, but that just never did. So I told her that we can either A) have sex naturally and she would be responsible for helping make that happen, or B) we could have sex on a schedule until things start happening naturally. 

This goes back around to learning how to deal with rejection being difficult. Some people have an equally difficult problem dealing with being accepted. Scheduling sex forces you to confront those things and work on them.


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

badsanta said:


> Scheduling sex is probably the most useful exercise that a couple can do!
> 
> My wife complained that she wanted sex to occur naturally when we were having problems, but that just never did. So I told her that we can either A) have sex naturally and she would be responsible for helping make that happen, or B) we could have sex on a schedule until things start happening naturally.
> 
> This goes back around to learning how to deal with rejection being difficult. Some people have an equally difficult problem dealing with being accepted. Scheduling sex forces you to confront those things and work on them.


I don't mind scheduled sex because we have a little child, but I was practically told that that's not gonna happen. Erection, I was told, can't be scheduled.
You can't reason with such a person, can you?


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Emily Bronte said:


> I don't mind scheduled sex because we have a little child, but I was practically told that that's not gonna happen. Erection, I was told, can't be scheduled.
> You can't reason with such a person, can you?


You are being manipulated! 

Tell your husband that you agree that erections can't be scheduled but that you are crazy and need him to prove it. Challenge him to NOT get an erection for 30 minutes at a scheduled time that you choose. During that time schedule yourself to have an orgasm all on your own right in front of him and then walk away as if nothing and do not lift a finger to please him! 

...unless he admits to being wrong... (that is not enough) ...AND tells you how sexy you are!



Will require some confidence to do that, but you can do it!


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Emily Bronte said:


> Erection, I was told, can't be scheduled.


If you schedule sex for 9:30 each night, you start with him by certain stimulations, such as oral, and he doesn't get an erection on schedule, you and he have deeper issues. If it doesn't work, they have the little blue pills that you take an hour in advance, and boom!


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Emily Bronte said:


> Erection, I was told, can't be scheduled.


Hmm most mornings I wake up with one around 4:45am.

Seriously though I can get an erection from my wife in less than a minute unless I am really drunk. So that’s basically on schedule. Maybe there’s something wrong with his equipment.


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## nekonamida (Feb 21, 2017)

Emily Bronte said:


> Your post really made me smile, even laugh at times (especially at the image of the husband unclogging the toilet), thank you!
> What you say is true about most of the relationships that start like this. However, in my case, it wasn't me who wanted to quickly get a divorce (I may have procrastinated a little bit more, knowing how indecisive I am), quickly enter into another marriage and quickly have a baby. But he insisted! He started even setting deadlines for me - either I divorce and marry him or we shall say goodbye to each other. Strange as it may sound, he did want to marry, he didn't want to just date. And he can be really convincing to the extent of being controlling. I wanted some space and time after the divorce, but no - in order not to lose him, I remarried shortly afterwards. We hadn't lived together before that and I envisaged all sorts of problems, but I didn't foresee the lack of sex. At first I couldn't believe it was happening. And after the period of denial, I had to accept reality.
> The chick with the silicone lips (it's a craze in my country right now - nearly all young women have their lips enlarged) may have turned him on (that he would never admit) probably not because she's single but because she's somebody else who he hasn't conquered yet. If they had had a relationship, believe me he would have proposed to her too!


I think you answer your own question in this post. He's so inexperienced in relationships that he naively believed all of the drama and highs of the affair were going to continue on into the marriage. They didn't. Real life issues cropped up and now he's bored. He probably feels trapped but won't admit it because that would mean he would have to admit to making a mistake by convincing you to divorce your exhusband for him. Given he won't even acknowledge the problem, I don't think it's likely to improve. He may not have acted on his attraction to this woman but you know how the old saying goes - If he'll cheat with you, he'll cheat on you.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Emily Bronte said:


> I don't mind scheduled sex because we have a little child, but I was practically told that that's not gonna happen. Erection, I was told, can't be scheduled.
> You can't reason with such a person, can you?


Everyone is different, but wife n I have had a daily schedule for years. Morning n afternoon n sometimes evenings most days if life doesnt intervene. Anticipation brings on erection right on schedule, so dispute statement can't be scheduled.


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

badsanta said:


> You are being manipulated!
> 
> Tell your husband that you agree that erections can't be scheduled but that you are crazy and need him to prove it. Challenge him to NOT get an erection for 30 minutes at a scheduled time that you choose. During that time schedule yourself to have an orgasm all on your own right in front of him and then walk away as if nothing and do not lift a finger to please him!
> 
> ...


I know I'm being manipulated but can do nothing at the moment. At least I have the awareness.
What you suggest will bring me the title of the craziest and most mentally unstable wife ever! And it won't work on him.


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

Sfort said:


> If you schedule sex for 9:30 each night, you start with him by certain stimulations, such as oral, and he doesn't get an erection on schedule, you and he have deeper issues. If it doesn't work, they have the little blue pills that you take an hour in advance, and boom!


If I reach the stage with stimulations like giving him oral and so on, that will be a victory. The problem is he doesn't let me. He doesn't like anything spontaneous and he doesn't like anything scheduled. He likes to have sex as and when he feels like it. 
All of you are right about one thing - because I'm always on hand, he gets his way.


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Hmm most mornings I wake up with one around 4:45am.
> 
> Seriously though I can get an erection from my wife in less than a minute unless I am really drunk. So that’s basically on schedule. Maybe there’s something wrong with his equipment.


He is always worried that even if he manages to get an erection, he may lose it during the act. At such moments, he stands up, puts on his pants and starts smoking angrily. Then I am to blame. 
It happens almost 15% of the times. I know he has mental issues to fix but am at my wit's end.


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

nekonamida said:


> I think you answer your own question in this post. He's so inexperienced in relationships that he naively believed all of the drama and highs of the affair were going to continue on into the marriage. They didn't. Real life issues cropped up and now he's bored. He probably feels trapped but won't admit it because that would mean he would have to admit to making a mistake by convincing you to divorce your exhusband for him. Given he won't even acknowledge the problem, I don't think it's likely to improve. He may not have acted on his attraction to this woman but you know how the old saying goes - If he'll cheat with you, he'll cheat on you.


I would say I am more bored and tired by our married life. It was me who expected more fun and excitement. My husband enjoys his life as a married, mature, responsible man - he likes the image he projects. He even wants us to have another child but I am more reserved this time.
In a certain sense, our roles are reversed - he is like the boring wife invested in the family and having headaches every night, I am like the bored husband who wants more than the comfort of family dinners and weekends spent in children's playgrounds.


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> Everyone is different, but wife n I have had a daily schedule for years. Morning n afternoon n sometimes evenings most days if life doesnt intervene. Anticipation brings on erection right on schedule, so dispute statement can't be scheduled.


All of this is possible because you want it to happen, anticipation being the keyword.
Where is a will there is a way.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Emily Bronte said:


> If I reach the stage with stimulations like giving him oral and so on, that will be a victory. The problem is he doesn't let me. He doesn't like anything spontaneous and he doesn't like anything scheduled. He likes to have sex as and when he feels like it.
> All of you are right about one thing - because I'm always on hand, he gets his way.


This sounds passive-aggressive to me. Doesn't let you stimulate him? Won't let you give him oral??!!?? Something very wrong here IMHO. Spontaneous, scheduled, whatever makes no difference to me ( or the wife ). She is welcome to stimulate anytime ( and any way ) she wants.

Is he really really pissed about something?? To forgo what most men would be very enthusiastic about? You can read plenty of threads by men wanting their partner to initiate, and also plenty complaining that their wife won't give them oral. Your husband has a wife who is enthusiastic to provide both and he doesn't let you??!!??


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Emily Bronte said:


> All of this is possible because you want it to happen, anticipation being the keyword.
> Where is a will there is a way.


The reason we used scheduling was when our kids were still home and we both working. If we didn't, a day would disappear and intimacy wouldn't have happened. We both believed intimacy was essential to maintain a strong pair bond and we put a very high priority on that. So it was more like planning our dating, like "meet you tomorrow morning at 5, right here. If I am still asleep wake me then." A wonderful way to greet the day.

And if a spouse "doesn't" want it to happen!!?? Sounds to me like a marriage in major danger zone and some major relationship mending is essential. How to do that is above my pay grade. Sorry.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Emily Bronte said:


> He is always worried that even if he manages to get an erection, he may lose it during the act. At such moments, he stands up, puts on his pants and starts smoking angrily. Then I am to blame.
> It happens almost 15% of the times. I know he has mental issues to fix but am at my wit's end.


Smoking isn't helping anything, ask me how I know lol ( quit 30 years ago ). 

If he is having ED that can nearly always be fixed and doesn't have to be a big deal unless he makes it one, and 15% of the time isn't the end of the world unless one of you make it so. Maybe the whole issue is he worries about performance every engagement and the worry becomes a self-fulfilling thing. The more he worries, the worse performance becomes. Not sure how to get him to a doctor, but that is what he needs. A few PDE-5 pills might help to rebuild his confidence.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Emily Bronte said:


> If I reach the stage with stimulations like giving him oral and so on, that will be a victory. The problem is he doesn't let me. He doesn't like anything spontaneous and he doesn't like anything scheduled. He likes to have sex as and when he feels like it.
> All of you are right about one thing - because I'm always on hand, he gets his way.


This is on you. Unless you want to continue being his slave or servant, you need to take a stand. This behavior is not a marriage. It's a servitude. Unless you take steps to fix the problem, it will continue. I'm getting the sense that you're not willing to take the drastic steps necessary to make a difference. I doubt you will be able to fix him.


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> Smoking isn't helping anything, ask me how I know lol ( quit 30 years ago ).
> 
> If he is having ED that can nearly always be fixed and doesn't have to be a big deal unless he makes it one, and 15% of the time isn't the end of the world unless one of you make it so. Maybe the whole issue is he worries about performance every engagement and the worry becomes a self-fulfilling thing. The more he worries, the worse performance becomes. Not sure how to get him to a doctor, but that is what he needs. A few PDE-5 pills might help to rebuild his confidence.


*Rus47, *you may not know me but all your observations are correct. Just like you, I used to think that sex was the easiest part of a marriage, especially when you are in love. I'm spontaneous and bold in sex (my previous partners desired me all the time, no matter whether we had had a row or not), but these impulses of mine were gradually killed by my husband. Obviously, he is not like the majority of men and doesn't need sex so much. Keeps saying how unfaithful other women's husbands are, but he isn't and deserves a medal; how unimportant sex is when you consider the whole picture, etc. He won't change. I will have to change him for another but I don't want to. Not yet. My love is my greatest tormentor. 
I'm waiting for the day I can't take it anymore and just leave. That's all there is to wait for.

I know you are fed up with people whom you constantly give advice here but are unwilling to do anything to improve their situation. I may be such a person, but I want to thank everyone for hearing me out and lending a sympathetic ear. You help me a lot!


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

Sfort said:


> This is on you. Unless you want to continue being his slave or servant, you need to take a stand. This behavior is not a marriage. It's a servitude. Unless you take steps to fix the problem, it will continue. I'm getting the sense that you're not willing to take the drastic steps necessary to make a difference. I doubt you will be able to fix him.


My thoughts exactly!
Over the last several days I kept saying to myself that I have to do something different if I want to achieve a different result. 
I didn't call him all day for three days; didn't go home straight after work; didn't speak a word to him ... However, my rebellion was crushed by him yelling at me with tearful eyes - that I am a fool to want to end our beautiful relationship because of such a stupid thing, that he can't have timetabled sex, that he loves me and if he didn't, he wouldn't stay with me at all, etc.
He is in denial, it's obvious. Only something catastrophic can take him out of this state. But I'm not ready to unleash hell yet. I have to suffer a bit more.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> Smoking isn't helping anything, ask me how I know lol ( quit 30 years ago ).
> 
> If he is having ED that can nearly always be fixed and doesn't have to be a big deal unless he makes it one, and 15% of the time isn't the end of the world unless one of you make it so. Maybe the whole issue is he worries about performance every engagement and the worry becomes a self-fulfilling thing. The more he worries, the worse performance becomes. Not sure how to get him to a doctor, but that is what he needs. A few PDE-5 pills might help to rebuild his confidence.


I thot about this some more while jogging.

Maybe when his issues started, he had a time when he lost erection in the saddle. So when is time for next encounter arrives, all in his head is will it work this time? And of course since he isnt in moment it happens again. A downhill spiral. And a schedule makes it even worse cuz as the deadline approached there isnt anyicipation rather dread. The hotty at work fueled enough fantasy to stop thinking about failure so he was able to perform.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Emily Bronte said:


> My thoughts exactly!
> Over the last several days I kept saying to myself that I have to do something different if I want to achieve a different result.
> I didn't call him all day for three days; didn't go home straight after work; didn't speak a word to him ... However, my rebellion was crushed by him yelling at me with tearful eyes - that I am a fool to want to end our beautiful relationship because of such a stupid thing, that he can't have timetabled sex, that he loves me and if he didn't, he wouldn't stay with me at all, etc.
> He is in denial, it's obvious. Only something catastrophic can take him out of this state. *But I'm not ready to unleash hell yet. I have to suffer a bit more.*


There's nothing anyone here can do to help you. Just keep doing what you're told until you've had enough. Sorry.


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> I thot about this some more while jogging.
> 
> Maybe when his issues started, he had a time when he lost erection in the saddle. So when is time for next encounter arrives, all in his head is will it work this time? And of course since he isnt in moment it happens again. A downhill spiral. And a schedule makes it even worse cuz as the deadline approached there isnt anyicipation rather dread. The hotty at work fueled enough fantasy to stop thinking about failure so he was able to perform.


All mental problems impinge on one's physique. And yes, he is a chain-smoker, which has a lot to do with his occasional ED episodes. 
I want to help him very much, I'm ready to do everything so that he feels good - I stopped pressing him; I'm trying to stop appearing hurt and nervous, I do my best to please when we have sex and he always has a wonderful time. I guess I'm every husband's dream  However, nothing changes long term.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Emily Bronte said:


> He is always worried that even if he manages to get an erection, he may lose it during the act. At such moments, he stands up, puts on his pants and starts smoking angrily. Then I am to blame.
> It happens almost 15% of the times. I know he has mental issues to fix but am at my wit's end.


This has never happened to me but I doubt that would be my reaction.

Several months ago I had some premature ejaculation problems which have a similar result.

It was 100% mental and hadn’t happened to me before. Net result was, wife isn’t done but my penis was. When I was younger my refractory period was very short so if this ever happened I was back in action after a minute or two. Now at nearly 50 I found it’s more like 10-minutes.

So I switched to using my hands instead and then sometimes she’d get off from that and other times I’d get it back.

After realizing I could still handle business it went away and I haven’t had issues with it.

Your husband doesn’t seem like he’s willing to try to solve the problem yet. If he’s losing his erection he can get a penis ring that will restrict the blood going out.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Emily Bronte said:


> All mental problems impinge on one's physique. And yes, he is a chain-smoker, which has a lot to do with his occasional ED episodes.
> I want to help him very much, I'm ready to do everything so that he feels good - I stopped pressing him; I'm trying to stop appearing hurt and nervous, I do my best to please when we have sex and he always has a wonderful time. I guess I'm every husband's dream  However, nothing changes long term.


It *CAN* change! Somehow he needs to realize that *HE* can and must address the problem. It can nearly always be corrected. As I aged, experienced some of what described as what may be going on with your husband. It is a negative feedback loop that can spiral out of control if the man lets it.. The difference is my wife and I discussed it from beginning, first of all I wanted her to understand that she was in no way responsible for MY problems. Also, that *I *was going to solve the issue or die trying. And, she assured me and showed me by her actions that she wanted to help. We have never allowed problems of any kind to go unaddressed. Your husband must stop laying the issues at your doorstep and realize his situation is not uncommon. First step is to see a good urologist that he is comfortable talking with. Not sure how to achieve that first step, somehow most males seem reluctant to seek help for these issues which are really pretty common, and not as big a deal as we make them into.


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

Thanks for sharing your personal story!
If my husband ever admits to having a problem and seeks a solution, I'll use your advice!
Your wife is lucky


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> It *CAN* change! Somehow he needs to realize that *HE* can and must address the problem. It can nearly always be corrected. As I aged, experienced some of what described as what may be going on with your husband. It is a negative feedback loop that can spiral out of control if the man lets it.. The difference is my wife and I discussed it from beginning, first of all I wanted her to understand that she was in no way responsible for MY problems. Also, that *I *was going to solve the issue or die trying. And, she assured me and showed me by her actions that she wanted to help. We have never allowed problems of any kind to go unaddressed. Your husband must stop laying the issues at your doorstep and realize his situation is not uncommon. First step is to see a good urologist that he is comfortable talking with. Not sure how to achieve that first step, somehow most males seem reluctant to seek help for these issues which are really pretty common, and not as big a deal as we make them into.


His situation is not uncommon and can be fixed but in my country, on the one hand men suffer from what I call Balkan machismo, and on the other hand - extreme stubbornness and the idea that women are obliged to spare their men's feelings (a sense fostered by their mums until old age).


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Emily Bronte said:


> However, my rebellion was crushed by him yelling at me with tearful eyes - that I am a fool to want to end our beautiful relationship


Ask him to define what constitutes "a beautiful relationship". I don't consider being yelled at, blamed and denied sex any kind of a relationship worthy of sticking around for. Don't tolerate his childish tantrums - it only encourages them. You now have two children, congratulations!


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Emily Bronte said:


> I know I'm being manipulated but can do nothing at the moment. At least I have the awareness.
> *What you suggest will bring me the title of the craziest and most mentally unstable wife ever! And it won't work on him.*


There is a book I read that talks about how sexuality does NOT follow rules of everything being fair and easy. The reality is that sexuality pushes us to do things that are a bit uncomfortably/risky from an emotional point of view. So if you can embrace being a bit freaky, the risk may be worth the reward. 

I find myself thinking about that Disney movie Cars. Where the old times explains to the younger generation that you have to, "turn right to go left" if you really want to have what it takes to win a race. If you are not familiar with that phrase, try googling it! It is a lesson about being fully committed to pushing your boundaries and having faith and letting go of your fears. 

What I suggested happens to be one of the #1 fantasies of most men. There is a reason that a significant majority of porn focuses on women doing exactly this. Sure, he might tell you that you are crazy. But when he has a raging hard on when he says that to you, you can realize that he is just projecting his own thoughts about himself! 



If you do that and it fails, well then I think everyone here will give you the support needed to say that HE is the crazy one! 

Badsanta


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

badsanta said:


> There is a book I read that talks about how sexuality does NOT follow rules of everything being fair and easy. The reality is that sexuality pushes us to do things that are a bit uncomfortably/risky from an emotional point of view. So if you can embrace being a bit freaky, the risk may be worth the reward.
> 
> I find myself thinking about that Disney movie Cars. Where the old times explains to the younger generation that you have to, "turn right to go left" if you really want to have what it takes to win a race. If you are not familiar with that phrase, try googling it! It is a lesson about being fully committed to pushing your boundaries and having faith and letting go of your fears.
> 
> ...


I remember this Disney Cars phrase - it says a lot about getting out of your comfort zone.
Honestly, I'm not ready to face yet another rejection and being ridiculed, because as far as I know him, that's what's gonna happen.
The problem is not trying to achieve a hard-on. The problem is trying to adopt a hard-on attitude in general - to want to figure out why your wife, who you had been shagging like crazy before, now feels unwanted, undesired and intrusive. Is this normal? Where will it lead the relationship? Do I want to do something about it? Why will she want to act like a prostitute only to appeal to me?
Tables are often turned in life, and as childish as it may sound, I'm sure I'll live to see the moment when he will want me but I will be as cold as a frozen turkey.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Emily Bronte said:


> If I reach the stage with stimulations like giving him oral and so on, that will be a victory. The problem is he doesn't let me. He doesn't like anything spontaneous and he doesn't like anything scheduled. He likes to have sex as and when he feels like it.


OK, here is an odd dynamic that I will share from my perspective. In my marriage my wife (the one with lower desire) is often willing to accommodate my desires, but while doing so she will NOT be in the mood to be aroused herself. She simply tells me to be selfish and enjoy A), B), or C) if I really need to have it. Historically I would reject that and insist that I would just wait until she was in the mood and/or get very upset because I saw her making no effort to even try to get herself in the mood. 

It took me a long time to see that my behavior above was a form of me rejecting my own wife. Eventually I learned to respect that she may not be in the mood but that she would be willing to please me. By learning to respect that path, it unlocked my ability to become better in touch with her responsive desire. In that she would surprisingly find herself in the mood as long as I didn't insist on her being in the mood. Things drastically improved. 

So you are in a situation where "something" activated your husbands desire. But now you want to understand it and perhaps have more control over it. Ummm... sorry that will never happen. All you can do is let go that you have little or no control over your husbands desire and take responsibility for your own desire. You have to try and find a way to do that in which your desire can be shared with him in a way that allows him to respond when and if he choses to do so. You have to not get upset when he doesn't respond or that only makes things worse! You have to find your A), B), or C) that works for the two of you. Perhaps that involves handing him a vibrator and allowing him to hold you in a spooning position and reach around with it. That puts him in control and puts you in the challenging position of asking yourself if you are worthy enough to enjoy pleasure selfishly in front of him without him needing anything in return. That is not easy, so you really have to want it when you ask for it. You really have to allow yourself to selfishly enjoy it and compliment your spouse during the process. Over time he will "naturally" respond, get aggressive, and shift gears into having his way with you as part of that journey!

Again, you need the confidence to do this and feel you deserve it. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

badsanta said:


> It took me a long time to see that my behavior above was a form of me rejecting my own wife. Eventually I learned to respect that she may not be in the mood but that she would be willing to please me. By learning to respect that path, it unlocked my ability to become better in touch with her responsive desire. In that she would surprisingly find herself in the mood as long as I didn't insist on her being in the mood. Things drastically improved.


This is exactly right and I experienced the same thing.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Emily Bronte said:


> Tables are often turned in life, and as childish as it may sound, I'm sure I'll live to see the moment when he will want me but I will be as cold as a frozen turkey.


As childish as it may sound, that type of thinking will only serve to give you a kinky desire for cold turkeys! It would probably be pretty hot (in an ironic kind of way).


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

badsanta said:


> OK, here is an odd dynamic that I will share from my perspective. In my marriage my wife (the one with lower desire) is often willing to accommodate my desires, but while doing so she will NOT be in the mood to be aroused herself. She simply tells me to be selfish and enjoy A), B), or C) if I really need to have it. Historically I would reject that and insist that I would just wait until she was in the mood and/or get very upset because I saw her making no effort to even try to get herself in the mood.
> 
> It took me a long time to see that my behavior above was a form of me rejecting my own wife. Eventually I learned to respect that she may not be in the mood but that she would be willing to please me. By learning to respect that path, it unlocked my ability to become better in touch with her responsive desire. In that she would surprisingly find herself in the mood as long as I didn't insist on her being in the mood. Things drastically improved.
> 
> ...


Badsanta, have you thought of a career as a sex therapist? You are so insightful.
I see what you are trying to tell me and appreciate it greatly! After all, this is the only thing for me to do since I don't want to leave him.


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

Blondilocks said:


> Ask him to define what constitutes "a beautiful relationship". I don't consider being yelled at, blamed and denied sex any kind of a relationship worthy of sticking around for. Don't tolerate his childish tantrums - it only encourages them. You now have two children, congratulations!


He takes care of the child, drives my sick father to the hospital and back, buys me roses and presents, wants to spend any free minute with me, etc. That's what he calls a beautiful relationship. The only taboo topic casting its shadow on it is our complicated sex situation.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Emily Bronte said:


> Badsanta, have you thought of a career as a sex therapist? You are so insightful.
> I see what you are trying to tell me and appreciate it greatly! After all, this is the only thing for me to do since I don't want to leave him.


Thanks for the compliment.

I'll never be good enough to actually be a marriage counselor. I am not that intelligent, but I do play someone that pretends to know here on TAM. I know just enough from struggling with my own marriage that I actually suffer from imposter syndrome when it comes to offering others any real meaningful marital advice. I do however practice unrealistic overconfidence in myself when pretending and attempting to do so! 

Wait a minute... I wonder if it common for individuals suffer from imposter syndrome when it comes to the long term ability to confidently know that we are loved and cared for by a spouse?

I think you are the one teaching me!

Badsanta


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Get a room.


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

badsanta said:


> Thanks for the compliment.
> 
> I'll never be good enough to actually be a marriage counselor. I am not that intelligent, but I do play someone that pretends to know here on TAM. I know just enough from struggling with my own marriage that I actually suffer from imposter syndrome when it comes to offering others any real meaningful marital advice. I do however practice unrealistic overconfidence in myself when pretending and attempting to do so!
> 
> ...


Don't be so modest!  The said syndrome is closely linked to perfectionism, which hasn't done any good to anyone.
I'm going to try practising unrealistic overconfidence in my relationship, like I think you advised me several posts ago. I'll keep you posted about the results!


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

i am not understanding the OP's post.
your husband sees this overtly sexual woman, is turned on, and chooses to have more sex with you as a consequence. Isn't that exactly how marriage is SUPPOSED to work? He is doing what he is supposed to be doing


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

Talker67 said:


> i am not understanding the OP's post.
> your husband sees this overtly sexual woman, is turned on, and chooses to have more sex with you as a consequence. Isn't that exactly how marriage is SUPPOSED to work? He is doing what he is supposed to be doing


Since I also find it paradoxical, I turned to this forum for some answers


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Talker67 said:


> i am not understanding the OP's post.
> your husband sees this overtly sexual woman, is turned on, and chooses to have more sex with you as a consequence. Isn't that exactly how marriage is SUPPOSED to work? He is doing what he is supposed to be doing


No, that isn't how marriage is SUPPOSED to work. If your spouse needs a constant parade of overtly sexual beings to become interested in you, then you need to put Long Dong Silver on retainer.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Emily Bronte said:


> Since I also find it paradoxical, I turned to this forum for some answers


not sure if it is paradoxical. He is horny, and immediately thinks of making love to you.
what exactly triggered his horniness, in my opinion, does not matter. 

the alternative: he gets horny, locks himself in a room and masturbates instead, or tries to meet up with this other woman, would be a bad result.

i think you are lucky. he truly enjoys making love to you. 
You COULD tease him about it a little, if you are devilish


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

Talker67 said:


> not sure if it is paradoxical. He is horny, and immediately thinks of making love to you.
> what exactly triggered his horniness, in my opinion, does not matter.
> 
> the alternative: he gets horn, locks himself in a room and masturbates instead, or tries to meet up with this other woman, would be a bad result.
> ...


Of course, I enjoyed the short-lived intimate attention. Of all the alternatives that you list, this one is the best that could have happened. 
I keep wondering whether this was just a pure coincidence - the appearance of the chick and the sudden surge of horniness on my husband's part - because it's so weird! But the break from his usual behaviour was so abrupt that I couldn't skip putting it under scrutiny. 
Surely, he will never admit it, even if you put a gun to his head. He is too proud. So I can't use it.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Emily Bronte said:


> Of course, I enjoyed the short-lived intimate attention. Of all the alternatives that you list, this one is the best that could have happened.
> I keep wondering whether this was just a pure coincidence - the appearance of the chick and the sudden surge of horniness on my husband's part - because it's so weird! But the break from his usual behaviour was so abrupt that I couldn't skip putting it under scrutiny.
> Surely, he will never admit it, even if you put a gun to his head. He is too proud. So I can't use it.


it could simply be that he had been ignoring you, saw this woman, got interested in sex again like a 2x4 whacking upside his dumb head. then he said, "hey, what can i do to revive my married sex life?"

the way to tell, start responding to him in a sexy fashion. initiate some of the sex yourself, wear some provocative things around the house, and see if it even gets to a higher level!

sometimes guys just forget this stuff, and they need their body to remind them!


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

Talker67 said:


> it could simply be that he had been ignoring you, saw this woman, got interested in sex again like a 2x4 whacking upside his dumb head. then he said, "hey, what can i do to revive my married sex life?"
> 
> the way to tell, start responding to him in a sexy fashion. initiate some of the sex yourself, wear some provocative things around the house, and see if it even gets to a higher level!
> 
> sometimes guys just forget this stuff, and they need their body to remind them!


You said something that I hadn't thought of before - "*saw this woman, got interested in sex again". *Might he suddenly have remembered that he actually has a penis somewhere down there? And decided to use it rather than just "wear" it.
Why did I happen upon a guy like that? 
I guess it's just my luck.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Emily Bronte said:


> You said something that I hadn't thought of before - "*saw this woman, got interested in sex again". *Might he suddenly have remembered that he actually has a penis somewhere down there? And decided to use it rather than just "wear" it.
> Why did I happen upon a guy like that?
> I guess it's just my luck.


has he been over stressed lately? Really busy at work? maybe some extenuating circumstances are involved.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Talker67 said:


> i am not understanding the OP's post.
> your husband sees this overtly sexual woman, is turned on, and chooses to have more sex with you as a consequence. Isn't that exactly how marriage is SUPPOSED to work? He is doing what he is supposed to be doing


As the Blonde One has already mentioned, this doesn't work.

If Mrs. C only had sex with me occasionally, we never would have gotten off the ground, much less if she ramped it up only when another man revved her engine for her.

I'm too experienced to be concerned about sometimes getting your fire started by someone other than your spouse as long as you take that fire to your own hearth.

But your spouse has to be able to kindle that fire as well.

Just thinking about what Mrs. C and I did last night is kindling my 🔥 right now and I can't walk around partially dressed or even bend over without her harassing me sexually.

You have to have some level of sexual attraction for your mate and you have to show interest at a rate that satisfies them.

OP hasn't answered some of my questions so I bowed out but I thought this was worth discussing.🙂


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

ConanHub said:


> You have to have some level of sexual attraction for your mate and you have to show interest at a rate that satisfies them.


Agreed. It’s a rare occurrence when I transfer excitement about someone else to my wife because I don’t need to.

I was grumpy yesterday when I went to bed. Wife followed me to the bedroom but I wasn’t going to start anything. She announces, “I changed my pajamas.” Meh... I am thinking she put on a new hoodie and baggy sleep pants.

“I CHANGED MY PAJAMAS.” 

So I looked and she put on a strappy nightgown I got her a few months ago. Bing bong went from 6 to midnight in about 10 seconds and swiggidy swooty I was coming for the booty!

Then she did the whole, “I thought you weren’t interested...” etc... which makes it even more hot.

Case in point, no external motivation needed.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

ccpowerslave said:


> Agreed. It’s a rare occurrence when I transfer excitement about someone else to my wife because I don’t need to.
> 
> I was grumpy yesterday when I went to bed. Wife followed me to the bedroom but I wasn’t going to start anything. She announces, “I changed my pajamas.” Meh... I am thinking she put on a new hoodie and baggy sleep pants.
> 
> ...


👍👍👍


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> You have to have some level of sexual attraction for your mate and you have to show interest at a rate that satisfies them.


i have to point out....if you have a partner that you are moderately sexually interested in, with some work on your part you can train your mind to find them more and more sexy!

for guys, buying their women sexy lingerie is a good start. (i know, it is another thing to have them actually wear it...). some sexy smelling perfume for women, or cologne for men...makes your mind think in sexy ways. The mere act of spashing on some perfume tells your brain "hey wake up, i am trying to be sexy right now!"


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

Talker67 said:


> has he been over stressed lately? Really busy at work? maybe some extenuating circumstances are involved.


Don't we all live under a lot of stress, especially when very young children figure in the picture? There are people who survived two world wars and probably didn't give up sex that easily.
No, in our case there isn't a mitigating circumstance like the death of a close person or any other dramatic event.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Emily Bronte said:


> Don't we all live under a lot of stress, especially when very young children figure in the picture? There are people who survived two world wars and probably didn't give up sex that easily.
> No, in our case there isn't a mitigating circumstance like the death of a close person or any other dramatic event.


funny you should say that
i have noticed two types of people in the world:
1) those that enjoy sex so much that when they are under a ton of stress, they seek out sex to relax themselves.
and
2) those that are so overwhelmed by stress that they can not function sexually, and can not even cum if they tried.

the LD spouse might be more like the 2) above, and seeing if they are under a lot of stress might indicate what the solution would be


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

ConanHub said:


> As the Blonde One has already mentioned, this doesn't work.
> 
> If Mrs. C only had sex with me occasionally, we never would have gotten off the ground, much less if she ramped it up only when another man revved her engine for her.
> 
> ...


*ConanHub, *I try to answer everyone's questions here. I'm sorry if I have inadvertently skipped yours.
Because I am attracted to my husband, I also jokingly "harass" him any time he passes by naked or half-naked. Sometimes he does too. I say sometimes because most of the times, even if I am completely naked around, he doesn't appear to see me. It has never happened to me before - with previous partners.
That's why I am at such a loss.


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

Talker67 said:


> funny you should say that
> i have noticed two types of people in the world:
> 1) those that enjoy sex so much that when they are under a ton of stress, they seek out sex to relax themselves.
> and
> ...


Yes, you are right - he is more like the second type. Sometimes he says: "Once the child grows up, we will have more time for ourselves, as a couple."

If we are still a couple.
Children get born, grow up and inevitably fly away from the family nest. But until then, if the gap between the two partners has widened beyond any repair, what's the use of "having more time for ourselves"?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> How did you initially get past his "dud in the bed routine", or was he more passionate in the beginning?


@Emily Bronte 

This is something that I was wondering if you could answer?


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

Talker67 said:


> i have to point out....if you have a partner that you are moderately sexually interested in, with some work on your part you can train your mind to find them more and more sexy!
> 
> for guys, buying their women sexy lingerie is a good start. (i know, it is another thing to have them actually wear it...). some sexy smelling perfume for women, or cologne for men...makes your mind think in sexy ways. The mere act of spashing on some perfume tells your brain "hey wake up, i am trying to be sexy right now!"


I have passed through the sexy lingerie period.
I always wear good perfume.
No permanent results have been achieved so far


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

ConanHub said:


> @Emily Bronte
> 
> This is something that I was wondering if you could answer?


He was absolutely passionate at the beginning. We had sex every day, and on days off - three times a day. We were totally exhausted and even lost much weight  We tried things neither of us had ever tried before. This sexual frenzy, along with how intellectually compatible we turned out to be, brought us immensely close to each other. 
And then, once we started living together, the whole routine changed for the worse.
That's why I lament those days.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Emily if you had it before you can get it back the potential is there.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Emily Bronte said:


> He was absolutely passionate at the beginning. We had sex every day, and on days off - three times a day. We were totally exhausted and even lost much weight  We tried things neither of us had ever tried before. This sexual frenzy, along with how intellectually compatible we turned out to be, brought us immensely close to each other.
> And then, once we started living together, the whole routine changed for the worse.
> That's why I lament those days.


That's relevant information. Thank you.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

For me some inappropriate lingerie is like the big red “EASY” button from Staples. I could be violently ill and less than zero interest in sex and Wicked Weasel micro bikini appears and ok well the dead are rising!


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Emily if you had it before you can get it back the potential is there.


Thank you! 
I'm only scared by the fact that sometimes people change irrevocably, dethroning their partners from the once shiny pedestal they previously put them on. In more normal English, I'm afraid of him having lost interest in me.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

ccpowerslave said:


> Emily if you had it before you can get it back the potential is there.


i just came here to offer the exact same thing.

how about just sitting down with him and saying "we used to have so much more fun, and love. i think we both let that go away. i want to work hard to get that back". and see what he says.

baby steps. it could easily take a year and a half to fix it...but it is worth it.


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

Talker67 said:


> i just came here to offer the exact same thing.
> 
> how about just sitting down with him and saying "we used to have so much more fun, and love. i think we both let that go away. i want to work hard to get that back". and see what he says.
> 
> baby steps. it could easily take a year and a half to fix it...but it is worth it.


I always mention those past days of sexual glory, how good it felt. To which he says, with the most serious face: "You are talking about the days when we had nothing better to do. We only worked, went to the gym and f....ed. Now we have other engagements."
You can't reason with a wall, can you?
People are bored and tired with married life whereas he appears to have found the ultimate meaning in life with ours.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Emily Bronte said:


> I always mention those past days of sexual glory, how good it felt. To which he says, with the most serious face: "You are talking about the days when we had nothing better to do. We only worked, went to the gym and f....ed. Now we have other engagements."
> You can't reason with a wall, can you?


When I recall when my wife and I were very passionately active it was back in our college days. We went to class, enjoyed our meal plans, had entires days-in-a-row without any obligations, and we each had private dorm rooms. Today we both have busy 50+ hour-a-week-work schedules, a family to raise, a house full of chores, so on and so on......

Well your husband was suddenly NOT busy when his libido kicked in a while back? Well you can't use that little fact without starting an argument, but my point there is that a busy schedule is not what limits intimacy. Sometimes a busy schedule can actually serve to improve intimacy because it allows for desire and anticipation to build. Perhaps for your husband it only serves to let stress and anxiety build because he struggles to please you and it has become an arguing point in the marriage to the point to where it is now yet another "responsibility" for him to tend to. 

What I am getting at is that the dynamics that you enjoy (building anticipation) may not work the same for him. So if you are constantly grabbing at him and harassing him with playful sexual gestures regularly, well that may only serve to trigger stress and anxiety for him that he feels inadequate to please you in that manner. 

Also keep in mind that your playfulness of sexual gestures towards him may also be serving as a "false start" of sorts. Perhaps you have become so used to rejection that you now falsely initiate sex just playing around because you know that he will say no. This way when nothing happens there is no emotional struggle with rejection because you already knew nothing would happen. Well, this may only serve to condition your husband to feel like every advance is a false one that can be easily dismissed as if it is a game. Then suddenly you were not playing around and your feeling were hurt, perhaps making you come across as a bit crazy. 

Stop harassing him! If anything try and get him to be the one to harass you by telling him he can't have it. When he does engage in that sort of playfulness, see how far you can push it and YOU be the one that plays hard to get. Easier said than done!


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

badsanta said:


> When I recall when my wife and I were very passionately active it was back in our college days. We went to class, enjoyed our meal plans, had entires days-in-a-row without any obligations, and we each had private dorm rooms. Today we both have busy 50+ hour-a-week-work schedules, a family to raise, a house full of chores, so on and so on......
> 
> Well your husband was suddenly NOT busy when his libido kicked in a while back? Well you can't use that little fact without starting an argument, but my point there is that a busy schedule is not what limits intimacy. Sometimes a busy schedule can actually serve to improve intimacy because it allows for desire and anticipation to build. Perhaps for your husband it only serves to let stress and anxiety build because he struggles to please you and it has become an arguing point in the marriage to the point to where it is now yet another "responsibility" for him to tend to.
> 
> ...


*Bad Santa, *yet again - you don't know me but you have described what is going on under our roof very well! How could you be so perceptive?!
Yes, unfortunately, I didn't want to admit it but sex seems to have become a chore for him. And if other men unwind through it, he feels pressurised into doing it. 
I stopped harassing him because it doesn't work. Lately, since our last fight over sex, I have completely left him to his own devices, so to speak. And miraculously, he initiated sex on three occasions so far (if anyone had told me I would be counting such things, I would have called him crazy). 
Maybe, if I want to continue my life with him, I have to "leave him alone" and just generally calm down on the topic. Easier said than done, as you say, but there is nothing better to do. And probably sexual tension and anticipation may start to build up at a certain point. And probably he will come to his senses.
Hope they say dies last.
I'd say hope is one of the ingredients of total desperation


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Emily Bronte said:


> *Bad Santa, *yet again - you don't know me but you have described what is going on under our roof very well! How could you be so perceptive?!
> Yes, unfortunately, I didn't want to admit it but sex seems to have become a chore for him. And if other men unwind through it, he feels pressurised into doing it.
> I stopped harassing him because it doesn't work. Lately, since our last fight over sex, I have completely left him to his own devices, so to speak. And miraculously, he initiated sex on three occasions so far (if anyone had told me I would be counting such things, I would have called him crazy).
> Maybe, if I want to continue my life with him, I have to "leave him alone" and just generally calm down on the topic. Easier said than done, as you say, but there is nothing better to do. And probably sexual tension and anticipation may start to build up at a certain point. And probably he will come to his senses.
> ...


OK, now ask yourself if you can push the envelope a little and do the opposite of harassing him? Find those little awkward moments like when you come out of the shower and be sure and ask him to respect you privacy and not stare at you! He may not even be staring, but you will get his attention and make him realize that perhaps he does want to stare. If you can catch him staring, give him something to stare at while at the same time asking him to stop staring. 



Badsanta


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

badsanta said:


> OK, now ask yourself if you can push the envelope a little and do the opposite of harassing him? Find those little awkward moments like when you come out of the shower and be sure and ask him to respect you privacy and not stare at you! He may not even be staring, but you will get his attention and make him realize that perhaps he does want to stare. If you can catch him staring, give him something to stare at while at the same time asking him to stop staring.
> 
> 
> 
> Badsanta


i was thinking that this would be a great time to try new sexual stuff. Have some toys, or costumes for role play, or rope for bondage, or who knows what. Something to really mix it up so that it is NOT just the same old same old sex. If he has some secret kink, that turns him on, but he is afraid to tell her about it....imagine if she could flip that new switch to get him instantly horny!


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

badsanta said:


> OK, now ask yourself if you can push the envelope a little and do the opposite of harassing him? Find those little awkward moments like when you come out of the shower and be sure and ask him to respect you privacy and not stare at you! He may not even be staring, but you will get his attention and make him realize that perhaps he does want to stare. If you can catch him staring, give him something to stare at while at the same time asking him to stop staring.
> 
> 
> 
> Badsanta


I've done that - walking around naked after coming out of the shower. He always stares, saying something like: "Why are you teasing me now?" A random kiss may ensue but not necessarily so. And that's where everything ends. No spontaneity, no sudden outburst of horniness, nothing. 
That's why, the envelope will be pushed in the following direction - fewer to none naked sights anymore. He may have become exasperatingly accustomed to the sight of my body. 
By the way, can you become bored with the body of your partner even if it looks good?


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

Talker67 said:


> i was thinking that this would be a great time to try new sexual stuff. Have some toys, or costumes for role play, or rope for bondage, or who knows what. Something to really mix it up so that it is NOT just the same old same old sex. If he has some secret kink, that turns him on, but he is afraid to tell her about it....imagine if she could flip that new switch to get him instantly horny!


There's nothing I wouldn't do to spark his desire again. And he knows it. 
When we didn't have a child yet and weren't married (I refer to our golden sexual days), we tried pretty much everything (except for threesomes and bondage). He openly told me what he liked, I was bold enough to try it. 
And then all of this ended - we have better and more meaningful stuff to do now, according to him. I told you I am at a loss!


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Emily Bronte said:


> I've done that - walking around naked after coming out of the shower. He always stares, saying something like: "Why are you teasing me now?" A random kiss may ensue but not necessarily so. And that's where everything ends. No spontaneity, no sudden outburst of horniness, nothing.
> That's why, the envelope will be pushed in the following direction - fewer to none naked sights anymore. He may have become exasperatingly accustomed to the sight of my body.
> By the way, can you become bored with the body of your partner even if it looks good?


You need to lean more towards leaving something to the imagination (as in covering up after a shower in a towel/robe) and make your husband think that he is not allowed to see you naked. This will tempt him into demonstrating his control over you and hopefully insisting that he can see you nude whenever he wants. 

The chase begins! 

As for the second question regarding a husband getting tired of your body... in my opinion what makes my own wife's body so tempting and seductive is her personality and the way she toys with my mind. The older you get as a couple, the more sex happens in the mind. The scarcer a resource becomes, the more value it has. My wife brags about that strategy no matter how much I complain of wanting more of her (see how that works!). 

Think about a box of candy chocolates and having an unlimited supply that you eat as much as you want. Now imagine the box sends you notifications encouraging you to eat even more. Now imagine being out on a diet and the box rationing your supplies to just under the amount that you want to feel satisfied. Now you get notifications that you have to wait until you are allowed to have another one. Which chocolate tastes better? The ones that are overabundant or the ones with a limited supply? 

So my wife would argue that if you don't pressure your husband for sex and manage to make him think that there is a limited supply of sex available, you can begin toying with his mind and have him desperate to eat whatever you want our of the palm of your hand. If my wife knew that I advised you of this, she would fall on the floor laughing that she has been right all these years no matter how much I complain and manipulate her to try and get more of her wonderfulness! 

This message will self destruct! 

Badsanta


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

badsanta said:


> You need to lean more towards leaving something to the imagination (as in covering up after a shower in a towel/robe) and make your husband think that he is not allowed to see you naked. This will tempt him into demonstrating his control over you and hopefully insisting that he can see you nude whenever he wants.
> 
> The chase begins!
> 
> ...


*Bad Santa, *you are my accomplice to the crime of re-seducing my husband, no doubt!  Thank you!
I understand your advice and have thought about this "strategy" too. However, one thing has always obstructed me - bad discipline. I desperately want to seduce him and I probably look it. Once he told me: "Stop catwalking around naked. I can see you. I get the message." I felt so ashamed and at the same time so resentful. Other men wish their wives walked around like that, mine tries to prove how insightful he is.
Clearly, I have to play games. However, I can't help feeling resentful. Isn't love supposed to come effortlessly? And we are discussing only sex here, not some lofty Shakespearean love.
Isn't sex a by-product of love? Isn't it about how "buzzed", how mentally challenged, how intellectually "crucified" you feel by your partner? That's how your wife, Santa, keeps you under her spell, that's how you want more of her.
If you love someone's mind and find it immensely intricate, their body becomes a temple for you.e
The relationship between me and my husband rests on the "love of my life" exclusivity, sex obviously being the only fly in the ointment.
All my literary deviations aside, why do I have to play games, why do I have to stage chases? I'm so tired.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Emily Bronte said:


> Clearly, I have to play games. However, I can't help feeling resentful. Isn't love supposed to come effortlessly?


No. 

Psychologist suggest that maintaining a healthy sexual relationship is about pushing your boundaries of self development. Perhaps once you rebuild your confidence things will come a bit easier and be fun again.


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## Menow (May 27, 2021)

Emily Bronte said:


> Hi, everyone! Although I have posted a couple of publications so far, I can say I'm new to this forum and I find it thoroughly enlightening!
> My husband and I have been together for 4 years now. He doesn't initiate sex at all or if he ever does, that's on Saturday night, and that's if we haven't had a row previously. I'm already tired of seeking intimate attention; the struggle has been long and unrewarding. Anyway.
> We run a business together (a training center), and last month there appeared this new client of ours - a young medical student with silicone lips, long hair and pervert glasses on. My husband initially didn't take any notice of her, he totally dislikes bimbos and women who have had some cosmetic alterations to their faces, but as their lessons progressed, he started speaking highly of her - how bright she was despite the superficial looks and so on. He began defending her whenever we were discussing her appearance and behaviour (she wasn't in the habit of saying "hi" to anyone when she turned up at the center, which I find really impolite, and so does he under normal circumstances).
> One thing happened though, which I had never expected. He suddenly became potent and willing to have sex with me. He started cornering me anyplace he saw fit. He started initiating sex especially right after the lesson with her. I didn't know what to attribute this sudden interest in me to. It was insane! We spent nearly a whole month, having sex every day.
> ...


Yes.

I had a very pretty girlfriend for 1 year and a half before, who i was aware of being attracted to my best friend. Long story short we once were at a ski resort for a weekend with my best friend and a few others. 

I knew she was stimulated by all the men around especially my friend in that setting. We had good sex always but I was fully aware during that weekend that her extra stoke in bed was fully fueled by staying in close proximity to my friend.


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

badsanta said:


> No.
> 
> Psychologist suggest that maintaining a healthy sexual relationship is about pushing your boundaries of self development. Perhaps once you rebuild your confidence things will come a bit easier and be fun again.


I guess then I have some unrealistic image of love/romance/sex in my head. And the failure to fulfil it in practice brings me doubt and misery. 
I'll take your advice, of course - I'm aware that a person exuding confidence is sexually appealing too. I don't want to come across as needy or desperate. The strange thing is that I generally have self-esteem but when it comes to my husband, I kind of don't. That will take work to rebuild.


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

Menow said:


> Yes.
> 
> I had a very pretty girlfriend for 1 year and a half before, who i was aware of being attracted to my best friend. Long story short we once were at a ski resort for a weekend with my best friend and a few others.
> 
> I knew she was stimulated by all the men around especially my friend in that setting. We had good sex always but I was fully aware during that weekend that her extra stoke in bed was fully fueled by staying in close proximity to my friend.


So you know what I mean. 
I'm trying to imagine whether I would be willing to have passionate sex with my partner if I felt attracted to someone else. The answer is no. I'd want to be with the other guy and the comparison would just kill me. But of course, there are all sorts of people totally unlike me.
Since you are not with her anymore, maybe she couldn't be trusted at all, not only in relation to your best friend.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Emily Bronte said:


> Once he told me: "Stop catwalking around naked. I can see you. I get the message." I felt so ashamed and at the same time so resentful. Other men wish their wives walked around like that, mine tries to prove how insightful he is.


No doubt, that's a jerk-ish comment that he made. However, resentment and thinking of possible and hypothetical 'other husband' reactions are not helpful to your marriage.



Emily Bronte said:


> I desperately want to seduce him and I probably look it.


Wouldn't part of seduction be in observing / knowing what sparks his interest? This doesn't equate to game-playing in a negative sense, or some kind of manipulation. Rather, I'd see it as knowing him well, and then channeling this while still being yourself. And if you can, perhaps let go a bit.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

On the topic of seduction, I remembered that I have the book 'The Art of Seduction' by Robert Greene. Please note: I got this in relation to an interest in some of the characters through history - such as Chaplin and Casanova - based on what I was viewing at the time. Anyway, I had a quick look through and here's something for consideration that I think may have merit within relationships. See if this speaks to you in any way.

_The main obstacle to becoming a seducer is this foolish prejudice we have of seeing love and romance as some kind of sacred, magical realm where things just fall into place, if they are meant to. This might seem romantic and quaint, but it is really just a cover for our laziness. . . seducers are never self-absorbed. Their gaze is directed outward, not inward . . . what people lack in life is not more reality but illusion, fantasy, play . . . seduction is the meeting of illusion and reality. _

Aligned with what I wrote before, essentially perhaps there's aspects of truly being yourself while knowing what makes your spouse tick to cultivate aspects of seduction. What I personally take from the snippet above connects with mental stimulation. I also interpret this in simple ways within a relationship; body language and such. To borrow an analogy I read on TAM earlier, which perhaps sums it up better than I'm doing here, it's about the 'dance' that occurs between you.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

For my man at least, the unexpected becomes novel - and often translates to enticing. That aspect intrigues me about our long term relationship. It could be something simple like wearing a pair of over-the-knee socks. That's not meant to be seductive, by the way, it's just me wearing long socks. But his reaction to this, as it's out of the ordinary, is well... positive. And it doesn't relate to just socks; I'm picking that as a simple example. The other week, I was getting ready in a hurry with friends picking us up. He looked at me weirdly. I said, ‘what?’ Knowing he’s seen me in this dress before and likes it. He replied, ‘interesting outfit…’ Confused, I asked what he meant. He told me, ‘…interesting choice to wear the back tucked into your underwear.’ 😆. Gawd. Obviously that's not me flirting. I would have been mortified if I'd left the house like that. Anyway, I did ask why he didn't straight away tell me - rather than leading in with 'interesting outfit..' Well, aside from admiring the 'view' (and remembering this is a view that he has frequent access to), it's because it was novel. And novel = interesting. In saying all that, he is attracted to the typical daily as well as the 'novel'. But novel has it's place; intended or otherwise.

Granted, physical affection is what he highly rates, in terms of demonstrating this through both freely giving and receiving touch.
Anyway, I don't know if any of this resonates, but I do wish you the best.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

heartsbeating said:


> *Well, aside from admiring the 'view' (and remembering this is a view that he has frequent access to)*


For some reason that comment really made me laugh. 

You are definitely right that something novel my wife does or wears, even something really simple and stupid, can get a rise out of me. I guess it just takes pushing the right button.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

heartsbeating said:


> Wouldn't part of seduction be in observing / knowing what sparks his interest? This doesn't equate to game-playing in a negative sense, or some kind of manipulation. Rather, I'd see it as knowing him well, and then channeling this while still being yourself. And if you can, perhaps let go a bit.


That is good advice in my opinion and a very great example of what having a self confident and positive attitude about intimacy should sound like for someone in the OP's situation. 

I'll add from my experience that sometimes a person with lower desire may not be in touch with nor understand themselves what sparks their interest. I think this is what most people might describe as having a partner with arousal difficulties and the frustration that ensues. From everything I have read, it actually requires a great deal of effort for someone to be very in touch with what they know is very arousing. This process likely involves a great deal of self exploration/reflection that is most commonly done with various forms of erotic media (books, audio, video, TV shows, movies). In addition to that someone has to both understand why something is arousing and be confident enough to talk about that with a spouse. 

For instance I have a particular something that I find very arousing. When I shared that with my wife she was very confused as to why I might find that particular something to be something that I find erotic. Once I explained it to her and why I respond the way I do, not only did she not mind me embracing that but she expanded on the ways that she would enjoy accommodating this something into our lovemaking. If it were not for all my self exploration that took me a lot of effort to understand this something for myself, that would have been a rather awkward conversation. I would have simply replied to my wife that, "I don't know" in reference to her asking me why I liked something. 

So in my opinion the OP is dealing with a spouse that is not conditioned to put in the effort that it takes to understand himself and nor can he explain why he reacts a certain way in certain situations. Perhaps he does not self explore and reflect on things, and/or he lacks the self confidence to talk about it openly and honestly. This then leaves the OP with the burden of doing his self exploration for him and reflecting on that in a way that they can understand how to embrace that knowledge of knowing each other as a couple. 

My wife is somewhat like that in that she was raised very conservatively and taught by the Catholic church that self exploration into eroticism is a sin. So I am not going to fault her for that nor am I going to think less of her for being raised that way. One day we were discussing this topic regarding advice she gave to a close friend that was debating this issue in her own marriage. My wife advised her friend that it is OK to share different views on self exploration. Some people feel it is important to know yourself sexually in order to be able to share yourself. Other feel it is best to leave that area unexplored and allow only your spouse to be the one to discovers you sexually. After hearing her describe it in that way, I was able to appreciate the diversity and dynamics that combining those two philosophies into one marriage creates. It is challenging, but it is a very enjoyable and rewarding challenge for the both of us now that we both have more self confidence to not get defensive when something does not work easily as we would want it to. 

So if the OP wants to seduce her husband and he is the one with the more challenging libido, she may have to be the one that carefully discovers what makes him aroused and how that will change over time. Doing so may require some effort on her behalf and it will be a journey of one step forwards and two steps back. As long as he is a faithful husband (even if being around a 3rd party gets his engine going in ways he does not understand), she is the one with the exclusive privilege of getting to discover who he is sexually. Hopefully that is the case and hopefully there is something about that dynamic that is very positive depending on how you look at it. 

A funny anecdote about marriage as we know another couple that gave this reply when a spouse asked, "do you love me?" Well the spouse replied, "I am still here!" The context of that is a reply made after decades of marriage and going through immense difficulties together. When interpreted in a positive way the reply conveys that, "the gift of you getting to be the only person to discover and know me still belongs to you!"

OK, I think I am rambling at this point but hopefully I have conveyed some thoughts to give the OP a positive look into devoting herself to her marriage. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

heartsbeating said:


> For my man at least, the unexpected becomes novel - and often translates to enticing. That aspect intrigues me about our long term relationship. It could be something simple like wearing a pair of over-the-knee socks. That's not meant to be seductive, by the way, it's just me wearing long socks. But his reaction to this, as it's out of the ordinary, is well... positive. And it doesn't relate to just socks; I'm picking that as a simple example. The other week, I was getting ready in a hurry with friends picking us up. He looked at me weirdly. I said, ‘what?’ Knowing he’s seen me in this dress before and likes it. He replied, ‘interesting outfit…’ Confused, I asked what he meant. He told me, ‘…interesting choice to wear the back tucked into your underwear.’ 😆. Gawd. Obviously that's not me flirting. I would have been mortified if I'd left the house like that. Anyway, I did ask why he didn't straight away tell me - rather than leading in with 'interesting outfit..' Well, aside from admiring the 'view' (and remembering this is a view that he has frequent access to), it's because it was novel. And novel = interesting. In saying all that, he is attracted to the typical daily as well as the 'novel'. But novel has it's place; intended or otherwise.
> 
> Granted, physical affection is what he highly rates, in terms of demonstrating this through both freely giving and receiving touch.
> Anyway, I don't know if any of this resonates, but I do wish you the best.


*Heartsbeating, *thanks for all your thoughts and advice. I especially liked the excerpt from that book on seduction.
It appears that I am one of those people brought up on a diet of love stories and romantic visions, which cultivated in me unrealistic views and expectations of love and sex. It appears that sex and seduction take some sort of maneuvering and strategy.
Badsanta suggests I up my levels of confidence, you suggest I try undeliberate novelties - both of you are right because you have had a long-term partner and know what works.
You say: "_That's not meant to be seductive, by the way, it's just me wearing long socks. But his reaction to this, as it's out of the ordinary, is well... positive. " _
In my first marriage my ex-husband wanted me all the time, and such an unexpected thing would have enticed him too because he generally desired me, paid attention to what I was (not) wearing, etc. We had other problems, sex not being one of them.
The most I can expect from my current husband is for him to remark something like: "I can see your nipples under the T-shirt, where is your bra?" And then he would continue watching the YouTube video he has been watching.
It's extremely difficult for me to envisage how he may react to anything I do. Sometimes, when I least expect it, when nothing has foretold what is about to happen, he grabs me and says: "Let's have sex." Afterwards I analyze what might have provoked such a "happy occurrence" but I arrive at no conclusion because there is no steady pattern with him. Changeable like the weather.


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

badsanta said:


> That is good advice in my opinion and a very great example of what having a self confident and positive attitude about intimacy should sound like for someone in the OP's situation.
> 
> I'll add from my experience that sometimes a person with lower desire may not be in touch with nor understand themselves what sparks their interest. I think this is what most people might describe as having a partner with arousal difficulties and the frustration that ensues. From everything I have read, it actually requires a great deal of effort for someone to be very in touch with what they know is very arousing. This process likely involves a great deal of self exploration/reflection that is most commonly done with various forms of erotic media (books, audio, video, TV shows, movies). In addition to that someone has to both understand why something is arousing and be confident enough to talk about that with a spouse.
> 
> ...


Very insightful, as usual! Thank you!
Yes, you are right about me having to do "the dirty job" of leading my husband to the unknown and unexplored depths of his own libido. Most of the times it feels like a totally unrewarding job but because I love him, I am willing to accept the role.
No, there is no third party, thank goodness. He insists on spending all his time with me, saying I amuse him and am the only intelligent person he can exchange a word or two with. I even have to force him to see a friend or have a coffee with someone other than me. If he doesn't see me around, he feels anxious and starts phoning me to learn where I am and what I am doing. It can be burdensome at times but I generally don't mind the attention.
He doesn't have much previous experience with women - has had only 2 girlfriends who he left because "they were stupid and superficial". Therefore, as you say, if we stick around together long enough, I will be the one to teach him about himself.
As for watching porn, like every young man, he does that too. At moments of extreme bitterness, when I accused him of not having sex with me because he had probably watched porn, he has admitted: "I haven't watched porn for over a week. I've been feeling kind of dead below the waist lately."


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Your husband's desire to hav


Emily Bronte said:


> My thoughts exactly!
> Over the last several days I kept saying to myself that I have to do something different if I want to achieve a different result.
> I didn't call him all day for three days; didn't go home straight after work; didn't speak a word to him ... However, my rebellion was crushed by him yelling at me with tearful eyes - that I am a fool to want to end our beautiful relationship because of such a stupid thing, that he can't have timetabled sex, that he loves me and if he didn't, he wouldn't stay with me at all, etc.
> He is in denial, it's obvious. Only something catastrophic can take him out of this state. But I'm not ready to unleash hell yet. I have to suffer a bit more.


That last sentence I think is the problem, sadly. Your husband takes you for granted, frankly. Or so it seems. And you let him. You seem obsessed with your husband, to the point, that it seems you only find value in yourself, through his view of you. If he never had sex with you ever again, you are a valuable, worthwhile human being. You know that, right? Treat yourself better.


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

*Deidre* said:


> If he never had sex with you ever again, you are a valuable, worthwhile human being. You know that, right? Treat yourself better.


If he never had sex with me again, I know there would be other candidates  I may be in love but I'm aware of my own value. 
The point is I want exactly him to warm my bed, not someone more handsome or hornier. I guess this is what love does to people - they become extremely impractical


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Emily Bronte said:


> As for watching porn, like every young man, he does that too. At moments of extreme bitterness, when I accused him of not having sex with me because he had probably watched porn, he has admitted: "I haven't watched porn for over a week. I've been feeling kind of dead below the waist lately."


One really good book on sexuality, "Come as You Are" has a chapter called, "Don't Yuck My Yum!" It is about being critical or shameful towards something that someone finds erotic. Now I am not exactly advocating for more porn, but if there is something you husband enjoys for his own self exploration, it is not wise to ruin that experience for him. Otherwise his efforts for self exploration can become associated with anxiety and negative emotions. Instead you would want to nurture that in a way that helps stimulate his mind and allow him to feel loved and accepted by you when he engages in self exploration. 

Imagine you husband buying you some erotic novels or toys and encouraging you to enjoy exploring them during a moment apart. Or perhaps he writes you an erotic letter describing his favorite memories of being with you, but tells you to only read it during a moment alone when you want to pleasure yourself. How would you feel about him doing these things? Now in contrast try and imagine him finding some novelty that you bought yourself and yelling at you as if you are a crazy woman for enjoying such things to humiliate you. That probably would be a blow to your self confidence and might cause you to have negative feelings to whatever he was talking about. In other words that would be an example of him yucking your yum. So don't do that to him. If anything do the opposite and try to be nurturing about it. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

badsanta said:


> One really good book on sexuality, "Come as You Are" has a chapter called, "Don't Yuck My Yum!" It is about being critical or shameful towards something that someone finds erotic. Now I am not exactly advocating for more porn, but if there is something you husband enjoys for his own self exploration, it is not wise to ruin that experience for him. Otherwise his efforts for self exploration can become associated with anxiety and negative emotions. Instead you would want to nurture that in a way that helps stimulate his mind and allow him to feel loved and accepted by you when he engages in self exploration.
> 
> Imagine you husband buying you some erotic novels or toys and encouraging you to enjoy exploring them during a moment apart. Or perhaps he writes you an erotic letter describing his favorite memories of being with you, but tells you to only read it during a moment alone when you want to pleasure yourself. How would you feel about him doing these things? Now in contrast try and imagine him finding some novelty that you bought yourself and yelling at you as if you are a crazy woman for enjoying such things to humiliate you. That probably would be a blow to your self confidence and might cause you to have negative feelings to whatever he was talking about. In other words that would be an example of him yucking your yum. So don't do that to him. If anything do the opposite and try to be nurturing about it.
> 
> ...


I have already stopped nagging at him about porn - you can't control anybody's fantasies or desire to lock themselves up in the bathroom and pleasure themselves the way they see fit. Once I suggested that we should watch porn together only to receive the following contradictory answer: "I can't watch porn with you, you are my wife and it's you I have to watch and f... not an actress on the screen." So he keeps doing it in secret and I'm alright with that. But if he found out I was doing something like that, he would go crazy and would act hurt. He would like to be the only one to give me pleasure, the only source of satisfaction.
I sometimes feel as if I was his mother, honestly.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Emily Bronte said:


> I have already stopped nagging at him about porn - you can't control anybody's fantasies or desire to lock themselves up in the bathroom and pleasure themselves the way they see fit. Once I suggested that we should watch porn together only to receive the following contradictory answer: "I can't watch porn with you, you are my wife and it's you I have to watch and f... not an actress on the screen." So he keeps doing it in secret and I'm alright with that. But if he found out I was doing something like that, he would go crazy and would act hurt. He would like to be the only one to give me pleasure, the only source of satisfaction.
> I sometimes feel as if I was his mother, honestly.


THIS is your problem -- he is using porn as a replacement for sex with you. So his sexual energy (drive and desire) is depleted. He is focusing that sexual energy AWAY FROM YOU. All his words of love and reassurance and saying YOU are the one being unreasonable are called BLAME SHIFTING and GASLIGHTING...they are designed to deflect HIS problem away from him so he can continue to do what he wants - use porn alone instead of connect sexually with his wife. 
I HATE to say this, but you will never get his sexual interest back if he continues to use porn.


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

LisaDiane said:


> THIS is your problem -- he is using porn as a replacement for sex with you. So his sexual energy (drive and desire) is depleted. He is focusing that sexual energy AWAY FROM YOU. All his words of love and reassurance and saying YOU are the one being unreasonable are called BLAME SHIFTING and GASLIGHTING...they are designed to deflect HIS problem away from him so he can continue to do what he wants - use porn alone instead of connect sexually with his wife.
> I HATE to say this, but you will never get his sexual interest back if he continues to use porn.


I went through the phase of wondering whether too much porn is to blame for our rare sexual encounters. And I didn't get anywhere. He claims that sex with his hand is one thing, sex with me - completely another. And we shouldn't mix the two. What do you make of such a person?
I know that he gaslights me, not only about sex but about other things too. I'm absolutely aware, suffer from no illusions. However, I'm not ready to take any drastic steps yet. I'm physically and mentally exhausted of taking care of a 2-year-old, a sick father and a business. I guess the moment I step on my two feet again, the tables will be turned - with a deafening noise!


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Emily Bronte said:


> I went through the phase of wondering whether too much porn is to blame for our rare sexual encounters. And I didn't get anywhere. He claims that sex with his hand is one thing, sex with me - completely another. And we shouldn't mix the two. What do you make of such a person?


I think you are wasting your time to no end, what you should be more worried about is why you choose to settle for less with him.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

LisaDiane said:


> THIS is your problem -- he is using porn as a replacement for sex with you. So his sexual energy (drive and desire) is depleted. He is focusing that sexual energy AWAY FROM YOU. All his words of love and reassurance and saying YOU are the one being unreasonable are called BLAME SHIFTING and GASLIGHTING...they are designed to deflect HIS problem away from him so he can continue to do what he wants - use porn alone instead of connect sexually with his wife.
> I HATE to say this, but you will never get his sexual interest back if he continues to use porn.


@Emily Bronte Read this above again ^^^^^^

It is right on the money. 

Now read it again and tell me how it is all that much different than if he were having an affair with someone else. Porn can essentially be an AP. Everything said above can be said about an affair. 

Even your response where you suggested watching porn together where he said no is exactly the same things that WS's say to BS when they are starting to spend time with someone supposedly as "just a friend" and the BS suggests all going out together. 

And when someone is having an affair, nothing in the world can reconcile the marriage while the WS is still getting with the AP so LisaDiane is correct here that as long as he is spanking to porn, you are going to get nothing or maybe just a few scraps of leftovers at best. 

Ask yourself - what you would do if you found out he was hooking up regularly with another woman???


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Emily Bronte said:


> I went through the phase of wondering whether too much porn is to blame for our rare sexual encounters. And I didn't get anywhere. He claims that sex with his hand is one thing, sex with me - completely another. *And we shouldn't mix the two.* What do you make of such a person?


Yes and no. Self exploration can both build and destroy desire in a relationship.

It can actually serve to build desire in a relationship if it is nurtured and shared. As in he is an open book and allows you to participate indirectly in his world of self exploration. By indirect participation I mean that he would enjoy a scenario where you give him some erotic food for thought so to speak and his self explorations becomes a pleasurable distance that pushes the two of you together. 

If for whatever reason he is completely closed, there are aspects of self exploration that he disassociates with you which may serve to pull him away from you and extinguish his desire to be with you. As in with you he likes A), B), & C) sexually but his self explorations allows for D), E), F), G), and into infinity of things that overstimulate him. 

If he shared his world of self exploration he would talk to you about certain things he discovers. He might ask you to try something that he ha learned about or might be curious to experience. A fairly tame example that one poster here spoke about was discovering temperature play using glass novelties, and another poster the idea of using wax candles to drip warm wax. I regularly talk to my spouse about things that I learn about myself and this allows us to expand/develop that way we interact intimately. 

By contrast I used to not share, and those were times when we argued a lot and I would "withdraw" into my world of self care with feeling of resentment and frustration. At that time my world of self exploration and intimacy with my spouse were indeed two separate worlds, and rather unhealthy for our relationship. 

So for whatever reason your husband does not want to fully reveal himself to you sexually speaking. Perhaps his world of self exploration is one of escape and self soothing to get away from you. Or perhaps he is ashamed of some of his desires when he self explores. Regardless of that it is likely unhealthy. It can be healthy to respect his privacy, but he should be a completely open book in the event you need to ask him about the general nature and frequency of things he explores on his own. 

From what I understand it is somewhat like an "event horizon" once couples learn to mutually embrace combining the worlds of self exploration and coupled exploration. It is also not something easy to do as it involves allowing your spouse to completely see you and face any fears one has about not being accepted as part of that process. The personal development skill required is self confidence and being perfectly OK in the event something is not accepted and still be able to know who you are and love yourself despite what someone else thinks. Awkward to think that you have to not care about others opinions in order to be closer. You can appreciate different opinion without it upsetting you. That is called "differentiation" and it is a very important part of moving forwards as a couple. 

Rather awkwardly the best way to get your husband to work on this is for you to work on your own self confidence. When he makes jabs at you, eventually it will not upset you and you can try to see things from a healthier perspective. He will hopefully stop jabbing and start sharing once he realizes you will not be upset or act like a crazy lady as he perhaps tries to describe you at times. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> @Emily Bronte Read this above again ^^^^^^
> 
> It is right on the money.
> 
> ...


I agree about the similarities between being obsessed with porn and having an affair. 
I have never been cheated on in all my relationships, so I don't know what I would do if he had an affair. I would probably feel devastated and leave him. 
My husband is ashamed of what he does in the bathroom, he never talks about it, and I don't know how often he does something there. I don't know whether he is a raging porn addict or just a normal guy. I haven't looked through his phone history and I don't intend to. What's the use? Am I a sleuth or something? 
There is another thing, which I haven't shared yet. When we started our relationship, I found he suffers from something like an inferiority complex - he thought his size was not sufficient, which wasn't correct because his is just a normal, Caucasian size. But having watched so many films where porn actors exhibit abnormal sizes, in his teenage years he came to believe that his is below the average. And nothing can make him believe the opposite. That complex of his is yet another problem that impinges on our complicated sex life.
To sum up, my whole husband, not just one aspect of him, is a complicated creature.


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

badsanta said:


> Yes and no. Self exploration can both build and destroy desire in a relationship.
> 
> It can actually serve to build desire in a relationship if it is nurtured and shared. As in he is an open book and allows you to participate indirectly in his world of self exploration. By indirect participation I mean that he would enjoy a scenario where you give him some erotic food for thought so to speak and his self explorations becomes a pleasurable distance that pushes the two of you together.
> 
> ...


I have learnt several lessons so far, one of which is to preserve my calm when he makes jabs at me. So rather than start an immediate confrontation like I did before, now I leave him to his own devices. Then he comes to his senses and within hours seeks reconciliation, often times accompanied by a desire to have sex. I don't get it but what else can I do?
As for his self-exploration through porn, at the beginning of our relationship, when we had an intense sex life, he mentioned he wanted to try a thing or two he saw in these movies and we did so. 
But this period is over as, and I quote, "we have better things to do than f.... like rabbits all day long."
As you said - I need to develop super self-confidence and quickly at that!


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Emily Bronte said:


> As for his self-exploration through porn, at the beginning of our relationship, when we had an intense sex life, he mentioned he wanted to try a thing or two he saw in these movies and we did so.
> But this period is over as, and I quote, "we have better things to do than f.... like rabbits all day long."


There is a period at the beginning of each relationship that s often referred to as the "honeymoon period" or "NRE" which stands for New Relationship Energy. From what I have read, this is when a couple goes through the process of discovering one another and there are lots of fun things to share. At some point you run out of the fun stuff and what remains are all of one's imperfections that tends to stay hidden or obscured. Many of these imperfections tend to have some sort of sexual manifestation, of which "fear of abandonment" often plays a role. So in order to protect the relationship and insure its long term survival many folks try to pretend to be a better version of themselves for a spouse. But doing so is actually a disservice to the relationship because it is our imperfections that need to be fully seen and accepted. 

Perhaps a manly man may think it is not manly to admit his faults and vulnerabilities, especially when it comes to sexuality. But it takes a great deal of courage to open that portion of the door to a spouse as it relates to self exploration. I perhaps wonder myself if this is something most people just can't do. A psychology book I read estimates that approximately 50% of people can't do this based on divorce rates. As in they can't fully open up and allow a spouse to completely see who they are imperfections and all. They live somewhat of a lie. Sometimes this lie sounds like, "You make me into a better person when I am around you!" But without the context of the other person fully knowing and being aware of the personal struggles/imperfections underneath that caused a spouse to say that. 

So when your husband says, "we have better things to do than f.... like rabbits all day long," he may be saying that he has run out of positive things about himself to share with you about who he is and it is best to move along, nothing else to see here!. 

...which means when you say that you have a lot of self confidence for everything except for when it comes to dealing with intimacy in your own marriage, perhaps this loss of confidence is more of a reflection/projection of your husband's inability and his own lack of self confidence to reveal himself fully to you. Perhaps you two are somewhat emotionally fused to one another's lack of confidence in that regard. 

Read up on "differentiation" as it pertains to relationships and marriage. You will likely find some useful food for thought with that topic. Here are a few links:









– Understanding Differentiation in your Marriage


SOME BASIC DISTINCTIONS FOR UNDERSTANDING DIFFERENTIATION IN MARRIAGE References “Passionate Marriage: Keeping Love and Intimacy Alive in Committed Relationships,” by David Schnarch, PH.D. Becoming…




www.nashvillecounselor.net













Couples Therapy: What is Differentiation? - Dr Michael Aaron


I have often thought, and now have come to firmly believe, that couples therapy is one of the most powerful ways to get people unstuck, not only as a couple, but also as individuals. The reasons for this are multi-dimensional, but in short have everything to do with the concept of...



www.drmichaelaaronnyc.com













Differentiation of Self in Romantic Relationships


Love is a balance between embracing "we" while holding onto "I."




www.psychologytoday.com





Regards, 
Badsanta


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

badsanta said:


> There is a period at the beginning of each relationship that s often referred to as the "honeymoon period" or "NRE" which stands for New Relationship Energy. From what I have read, this is when a couple goes through the process of discovering one another and there are lots of fun things to share. At some point you run out of the fun stuff and what remains are all of one's imperfections that tends to stay hidden or obscured. Many of these imperfections tend to have some sort of sexual manifestation, of which "fear of abandonment" often plays a role. So in order to protect the relationship and insure its long term survival many folks try to pretend to be a better version of themselves for a spouse. But doing so is actually a disservice to the relationship because it is our imperfections that need to be fully seen and accepted.
> 
> Perhaps a manly man may think it is not manly to admit his faults and vulnerabilities, especially when it comes to sexuality. But it takes a great deal of courage to open that portion of the door to a spouse as it relates to self exploration. I perhaps wonder myself if this is something most people just can't do. A psychology book I read estimates that approximately 50% of people can't do this based on divorce rates. As in they can't fully open up and allow a spouse to completely see who they are imperfections and all. They live somewhat of a lie. Sometimes this lie sounds like, "You make me into a better person when I am around you!" But without the context of the other person fully knowing and being aware of the personal struggles/imperfections underneath that caused a spouse to say that.
> 
> ...


*Badsanta, *many thanks again for the in-depth analysis! I'll sure read all the articles you have sent me links to.
My husband's mantra - "We have better things to do" - is quite offensive if you make a dissection of it. It translates to me as "I have better things to do than (do) you." But if I disregard him in some way, for example by not answering the phone, not going home straight after work, not giving him the usual kiss or a hug (he insists on these things), he will be offended beyond measure. Sometimes I feel suffocated by so many gestures of "love and attention" except for the one thing that I truly need to validate myself. Why would you heap your partner with what he/she doesn't really need? To say, in the end, that it is the ungrateful him/her that is to blame for the separation? I just don't get it.
I know about the honeymoon phase, have experienced it and am aware of its purpose. Even during it, however, I managed to catch a glimpse of how deeply troubled and what a complicated and difficult character he is in every regard. But it didn't stop me, love being he most devastating and impractical emotions of all


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Emily Bronte said:


> Sometimes I feel suffocated by so many gestures of "love and attention" except for the one thing that I truly need to validate myself.


Sexual gratification and a need to feel validated seem to go together naturally, but eventually intimacy needs to move beyond that. Using sex to gain validation is rather immature, although we all do it. 

Psychologists often discovers that both partners in a couple are equally matched when it comes to some of the problematic issues. So somewhere and somehow your husband uses you for validation in a way in which you are reluctant/problematic to provide for him. 

Some people call this the "love languages" once you discover what it is that you each need and want to feel validated, but in my opinion this only serves to feed the beast of immaturity and make overcoming the need for validation impossible. Ideally you need to grow your self and your relationship to where you no longer need one another, but as a result you choose to be with one another as a result. You shouldn't need your husband in order to feel good about yourself. You should instead work more to develop reasons to just feel good about yourself and then as a result you enjoy choosing him as the one to share your happiness.

You say your husband would be offended if he discovered someone else other than him makes you happy and gives you pleasure. What if he discovers that you can do that all on your own and that you do not need him for that? The result should be a dynamic that allows the two of you to enjoy be closer to one another as a couple with less anxiety and less need for validation from each other.


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

badsanta said:


> Sexual gratification and a need to feel validated seem to go together naturally, but eventually intimacy needs to move beyond that. Using sex to gain validation is rather immature, although we all do it.
> 
> Psychologists often discovers that both partners in a couple are equally matched when it comes to some of the problematic issues. So somewhere and somehow your husband uses you for validation in a way in which you are reluctant/problematic to provide for him.
> 
> ...


You are absolutely right in saying he seeks, but also invariably finds, validation through his whole relationship with me. He doesn't have a very high self-esteem, suffering from complexes about his size (having compared his with the impossible ones in porn movies since his teenage years, when I believe people generally form their views about themselves and the surrounding world), about his appearance (although he looks extremely good - tall and muscular, blond, blue-eyed, he keeps saying he is unattractive), and about how successful he is (we are not millionaires but through our business, we manage to earn above the average). So, I am the one to appease all his insecurities, telling him how lovely and clever he is, what a great lover he is, that I love his size - just the right for me, and so on and so forth. And he may not look it but he relies on my validation of him. Immature - I agree, but that's who he is. And that's who I am - childishly looking for validation through my husband's desire for me. And when he doesn't demonstrate it, I feel down. 
I can't tell him I am going to masturbate from now on in order to avoid putting too much pressure on him. He will be offended, he won't believe me that I will do so but most importantly he is bound to tell me that this is a way to attack him and officially proclaim him unmanly - a man whose wife masturbates because he is incapable of having sex with her.
You are a mature individual. I have to deal with a 30-year-old, "frozen" in his teenage years


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Emily Bronte said:


> You are absolutely right in saying he seeks, but also invariably finds, validation through his whole relationship with me. He doesn't have a very high self-esteem, suffering from complexes about his size (having compared his with the impossible ones in porn movies since his teenage years, when I believe people generally form their views about themselves and the surrounding world), about his appearance (although he looks extremely good - tall and muscular, blond, blue-eyed, he keeps saying he is unattractive), and about how successful he is (we are not millionaires but through our business, we manage to earn above the average). So, I am the one to appease all his insecurities, telling him how lovely and clever he is, what a great lover he is, that I love his size - just the right for me, and so on and so forth. And he may not look it but he relies on my validation of him. Immature - I agree, but that's who he is. And that's who I am - childishly looking for validation through my husband's desire for me. And when he doesn't demonstrate it, I feel down.
> I can't tell him I am going to masturbate from now on in order to avoid putting too much pressure on him. He will be offended, he won't believe me that I will do so but most importantly he is bound to tell me that this is a way to attack him and officially proclaim him unmanly - a man whose wife masturbates because he is incapable of having sex with her.
> You are a mature individual. I have to deal with a 30-year-old, "frozen" in his teenage years


If he were really frozen in his teenage years you would be going at it like monkeys 

This is getting quite personal, but why not. Have you thought about adding a twist to the masturbation and do it with him in the room? It may sound a little over the top, but I can't imagine a guy not getting turned on by that and wanting to help. Or maybe that's just me.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> It may sound a little over the top, but I can't imagine a guy not getting turned on by that and wanting to help.


That would work for me. But then again, pretty much anything would work for me so not a very high bar to clear.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Emily Bronte said:


> He doesn't have a very high self-esteem, suffering from complexes about his size (having compared his with the impossible ones in porn movies since his teenage years...


This will be a very different post and gets into how the dynamics of sexuality can be very counterintuitive and confusing. 

Wait, he told you this specifically? Or is this an assumption you are making based on his behavior?

If he has insecurities about himself and he actually shares that with you in a way that in open and honest so that you can talk about it together and help reassure him that he has nothing to be worried about, that would actually be a positive thing. But I am thinking there is no way that has happened based on how you describe him. 

I have been with women that were openly self conscious about her own breast size. In one case in particular she had an older female sibling with larger breasts that teased her about it relentlessly as a form of sibling rivalry. As a result she insisted she would one day need surgery in order to feel normal about her own breast size. She spoke about this openly to me and asked me not to put too much emphasis on playing with her breasts because it made her feel uncomfortable/inadequate. During the relationship this helped me to understand her behavior and attitude towards herself. I tried to be supportive and tell her that I thought she was perfect the way she was, but she seemed unable to budge on the fact that she did not like her breasts. She also had an awkward relationship with her vagina in that she said to me one day, "look I don't bother my vagina and she doesn't bother me and that is how we get along!" That was in reference to her not knowing or having any experience with what might feel pleasurable for her. During this relationship she did discover that she liked to watch porn and encouraged me to allow her to borrow from my stash of VHS tapes (this was back in the days before the internet and personal computers). We would often watch together during foreplay. Interestingly she never expressed any jealousy or self doubt about seeing women in the porn movies with larger breasts. If anything it helped because many women in porn have small breasts and some were smaller than hers. 

My point in sharing that is that it is often porn that helps people feel normal about their sexuality. They realize that they are not the only one that may have a certain desire and that people in all sorts of shapes and sizes can be confident about themselves. 

If your husband has issues about his size and continues to watch porn that he finds humiliating. Well there is such a thing as some people that get off on exactly that. It is a counterintuitive dynamic, but works like members of a fraternity hazing one another. Imagine yourself in a sorority where everyone is hazed and it creates a strong bond. But when it comes to you, no one hazes you and they are very careful to try and only give you compliments and be very supportive. How would that make you feel if you were in an environment where everyone enjoyed getting pranked except no one would prank you. 

Now I am not saying that your husband wants you to be rough with him in that regard, but if he has told you about it and you have been supportive and seen no improvement... perhaps you want to shift strategies and haze him a little. Doing so would also shift his perceived confidence about you into a different dynamic, because he would be eager to regain your acceptance (much like how it works in a fraternity).

Thinking back about the woman above, I perhaps should have played around with teasing her about her breasts. Doing so would have served to validate her own insecurities and made her feel like I finally understood her. It is an awkward way to feel accepted. But if someone accepts you for a reason that you reject your own self, the result is feeling emotionally disconnected. 

So what does this have to do with building self confidence and wouldn't it be counterintuitive to destroy self confidence? It depends on how someone was raised. If everyone they loved picked on them while everyone else was kind and polite, well then that person is engrained to recognize tough love as being the only sincere form of love. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> If he were really frozen in his teenage years you would be going at it like monkeys
> 
> This is getting quite personal, but why not. Have you thought about adding a twist to the masturbation and do it with him in the room? It may sound a little over the top, but I can't imagine a guy not getting turned on by that and wanting to help. Or maybe that's just me.


I can't imagine doing such a thing! 
If my husband was a conventional man, I wouldn't be discussing the rarity of sex and how to remedy the situation. If he was open to novelties, we would be doing more interesting things than me masturbating in front of him.
Thank you for the idea but no conventional advice will help me.


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

badsanta said:


> This will be a very different post and gets into how the dynamics of sexuality can be very counterintuitive and confusing.
> 
> Wait, he told you this specifically? Or is this an assumption you are making based on his behavior?
> 
> ...


Badsanta, thanks for still being so interested in my problem. I don't want to embarrass myself publicly any more, but I will say that my husband has never talked about his size frankly and straightforwardly. It is only after sex, jokingly or in another non-intimate situation, that he will say: "My d... is so small you need a microscope to see it", "I hoped it would grow up but it didn't", etc. And I have told him that he is not right; I have asked him how many penises he has seen in reality in order to say that and so on. 
The truth is his penis is perfectly Ok but he is adamant that he is undersized, which makes me think he compares himself with those extra endowed actors in movies. He won't hear. You know how it is with inferiority complexes.
Anyway, today is the day on which I announced I can't take it anymore and want a divorce, unless he does something consciously. I'm tired and miserable beyond measure. I can't sit and wait to be humiliated any more.
We have scheduled a meeting in an hour to discuss things
Wish me good luck! I'll keep you posted!
Thanks for everything!


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Emily Bronte said:


> Badsanta, thanks for still being so interested in my problem. I don't want to embarrass myself publicly any more, but I will say that my husband has never talked about his size frankly and straightforwardly. It is only after sex, jokingly or in another non-intimate situation, that he will say: "My d... is so small you need a microscope to see it", "I hoped it would grow up but it didn't", etc. And I have told him that he is not right; I have asked him how many penises he has seen in reality in order to say that and so on.
> The truth is his penis is perfectly Ok but he is adamant that he is undersized, which makes me think he compares himself with those extra endowed actors in movies. He won't hear. You know how it is with inferiority complexes.
> Anyway, today is the day on which I announced I can't take it anymore and want a divorce, unless he does something consciously. I'm tired and miserable beyond measure. I can't sit and wait to be humiliated any more.
> We have scheduled a meeting in an hour to discuss things
> ...


Good luck to you. Hopefully the talk knocks some sense into him.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Emily Bronte said:


> ....Anyway, today is the day on which I announced I can't take it anymore and want a divorce, unless he does something consciously.


In this thread you describe yourself as having low self confidence and trying to work on those things, while your husband refuses you the one form of validation you feel that you need in order for the relationship to thrive. 

The process to actually work on things in which you might see a meaningful improvement and enjoy a better relationship is something that takes years of working on your own self development. It is not a process of instant success. 

In my opinion it IS OK to stand up for yourself and make it known what things you need in order for the relationship to work. However if you are threatening divorce and preparing to do that after such a short journey of trying to better understand the dynamics of a long term relationship and how to cope with challenges.... take a moment to ask yourself if you are standing up for yourself or are you running away from problems you don't want to try and overcome. You don't have to reply or give a response to that, just something to reflect on as you make decisions on what is best for you and how to move forwards.


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

Hello, everybody! Let me update you on my situation.
My husband and I had a long, nearly 2 day long conversation in which basically I kept saying I can't take it any more and he kept saying he loves me and does not see anything wrong with our sex life. We shouted at each other and exchanged words of cruelty and offences; he physically didn't let me leave the room, barring my way, at which point I hit him on the shoulders; then we cried exhausted, after which we shut up. 
I used the opportunity to ask him the question which entitles this thread - was he turned on by the bimbo and was it because of her that he had become so horny for some days? Of course, he denied everything but wasn't as scandalised by my question as I expected him to be. The reason for this may have been that he was physically and mentally tired by the whole drama or that he may not have had enough inner conviction to defend himself. 
Anyway, we didn't get anywhere because, in synch with the tradition in our family, after the long fight and the silence that fell afterwards, he grabbed me during the night and we had the most wonderful sex ever, accompanied by him telling me "I love you", "I love you", "I love you" ...
The whole quarrel purged the bitterness I had been accumulating for months but whether I achieved anything long term remains to be seen. He didn't promise anything. I just hope he remembers how much his demonstration of a lack of interest hurts me and makes more point of appeasing my fears and insecurities. 
Do I want the impossible?
*Badsanta, *you are the voice of wisdom and maturity. I know that successful relationships are the ones that haven't ended yet. I know that they take time. In theory I know everything and I would advise someone in my situation to be patient and work towards the development of their relationship not towards its demolition. However, I'm only human and fear that I may not have enough lifetime to live the life I want to. A very close friend of mine, perfectly fit and healthy, died in her sleep 3 years ago - it was a great shock for me and made me think how little time we all have, and that there may not be another morning for things like love, sex and sense of fulfillment.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Emily Bronte said:


> A very close friend of mine, perfectly fit and healthy, died in her sleep 3 years ago - it was a great shock for me and made me think how little time we all have, and that there may not be another morning for things like love, sex and sense of fulfillment.


This exactly. Thinking about wasting time is what started me on the path to fixing my sexual relationship.

I decided I was ready to blow up my life in order to fix it if I had to.

I think is it possible to have a long term fix if there are no physical issues and he actually wants to preserve your marriage.


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> This exactly. Thinking about wasting time is what started me on the path to fixing my sexual relationship.
> 
> I decided I was ready to blow up my life in order to fix it if I had to.
> 
> I think is it possible to have a long term fix if there are no physical issues and he actually wants to preserve your marriage.


He wants to preserve our marriage but wants to do it his way. Probably what I need, for him, doesn't have any relevance to the topic of marriage preservation.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Emily Bronte said:


> He wants to preserve our marriage but wants to do it his way. Probably what I need, for him, doesn't have any relevance to the topic of marriage preservation.


Yeah, that is the case for a lot of low desire spouses which is why I told mine that if we don’t get the bedroom in order we’re done. There is no path forwards without having that piece working.

So it becomes relevant to him because if it doesn’t then you won’t be there.


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Yeah, that is the case for a lot of low desire spouses which is why I told mine that if we don’t get the bedroom in order we’re done. There is no path forwards without having that piece working.
> 
> So it becomes relevant to him because if it doesn’t then you won’t be there.


I'm sorry if you have already said that somewhere, but did your wife listen to you? Are you two Ok now, on the same page about sex and its frequency?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Emily Bronte said:


> I'm sorry if you have already said that somewhere, but did your wife listen to you? Are you two Ok now, on the same page about sex and its frequency?


Yep. Technically we banged twice today already ~12:10am and an hour ago and it’s not even 10:30am yet.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I still remember a saying that goes something like, "no matter where you work up your appetite just make sure you eat at home!"


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

RandomDude said:


> I still remember a saying that goes something like, "no matter where you work up your appetite just make sure you eat at home!"


I agree, but some people seem to be on a diet exactly when at home


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Emily Bronte said:


> Badsanta, thanks for still being so interested in my problem. I don't want to embarrass myself publicly any more, but I will say that my husband has never talked about his size frankly and straightforwardly. It is only after sex, jokingly or in another non-intimate situation, that he will say: "*My d... is so small you need a microscope to see it"*, "I hoped it would grow up but it didn't", etc. And I have told him that he is not right; I have asked him how many penises he has seen in reality in order to say that and so on.
> The truth is his penis is perfectly Ok but he is adamant that he is undersized, which makes me think he compares himself with those extra endowed actors in movies. He won't hear. You know how it is with inferiority complexes.
> Anyway, today is the day on which I announced I can't take it anymore and want a divorce, unless he does something consciously. I'm tired and miserable beyond measure. I can't sit and wait to be humiliated any more.
> We have scheduled a meeting in an hour to discuss things
> ...


it sounds like he is subtly, maybe even subconsciously, inviting you to dominate and humiliate him.
why not try it. get some spiked stiletto boots, and some leather lingerie, tie him up, and humiliate him. There can be all sorts of things to try...both sexual and non sexual. he might want you to lock his penis in a cage, and wear the key around your neck, maybe tell all your GFs about it to embarass him publicly. and so on. 

He may love it. You may love it. A lot of people are into this sort of thing. and often, when a person craves this sort of thing they are too embarrassed to ask you for it, but they might hint around.

it may be time to think outside of the box with him.
And as far as embarrassing your self...that you can work on too. There are plenty of good fetish sites out there...many you can join for free. use them as a smorgasbord to see all the different kinks people have, and to find which ones you might want to try out.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Emily Bronte said:


> Do I want the impossible?


In a long term relationship things are never going to be easy. In my opinion the best thing to work towards is creating a sense of teamwork along with a very open channel of communication with your spouse. 

Emotionally preparing for a divorce is essentially an exercise in differentiation. You reach a point where you can visualize yourself on your own and without your spouse. This allows you to then do things that you may fear could harm the relationship that in reality may be what it takes to help make it stronger. Because you can stand up for yourself and say, "this is what I need!" 

OK, time to go off the rails... However if you prepare yourself emotionally to divorce by visualizing yourself with an improved partner that better understands and cares for your needs, I think that is the equivalent of having yourself an imaginary friend for an imaginary emotional affair. Awkwardly enough I think this can be a healthy form of meditation as long as you realize that this imaginary idea of someone is actually you having a conversation with yourself in a rather emotionally and somewhat subconscious way. So if you indulge in such daydreams, compare this idea of an imaginary/perfect someone to yourself and ask yourself what is different about them from yourself in reality. Odds are this daydream involves a relationship with someone having a great deal of self confidence. The neat thing is that this imagination is actually you experiencing what it feels like to be 100% confident about yourself. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

badsanta said:


> ...
> OK, time to go off the rails... However if you prepare yourself emotionally to divorce by visualizing yourself with an improved partner that better understands and cares for your needs, I think that is the equivalent of having yourself an imaginary friend for an imaginary emotional affair. Awkwardly enough I think this can be a healthy form of meditation as long as you realize that this imaginary idea of someone is actually you having a conversation with yourself in a rather emotionally and somewhat subconscious way. So if you indulge in such daydreams, compare this idea of an imaginary/perfect someone to yourself and ask yourself what is different about them from yourself in reality. Odds are this daydream involves a relationship with someone having a great deal of self confidence. The neat thing is that this imagination is actually you experiencing what it feels like to be 100% confident about yourself.
> 
> Regards,
> Badsanta


That is some seriously deep stuff badsanta.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

BigDaddyNY said:


> That is some seriously deep stuff badsanta.


I once read a thread about a lady writing a book and she visualized the main character as her ideal mate. She got so involved with writing this book that she actually admitted that she was having an emotional affair with the main character. The result is that she couldn't and did not want to finish authoring this book as it meant that she would have to let go of her emotional affair to which she had become euphorically addicted to working on it. 

At the end of the day this is an ideal case study because there was no 3rd person. Just the author, her husband and the book she was writing. Essentially the 3rd person was just the wife having an emotional affair with her own imagination. Usually one projects this imagination onto a friend or real person and an emotional affair seems a bit more real. But at the end of the day it is a projection of your ideal self onto someone else so that you can interact with that and try to discover yourself. 

The OP should take a moment and try and imagine her ideal mate. Then afterwards compare that to herself and see if perhaps she described someone with the emotional traits that she needs to work on in order to grow herself as a person.


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

badsanta said:


> Just the author, her husband and the book she was writing. Essentially the 3rd person was just the wife having an emotional affair with her own imagination. Usually one projects this imagination onto a friend or real person and an emotional affair seems a bit more real. But at the end of the day it is a projection of your ideal self onto someone else so that you can interact with that and try to discover yourself.


You have described the story of my inner life!
I have been using my imagination ever since childhood - mainly to cope with unsatisfactory reality on all levels. 
However, being initially only "mentally unfaithful" to my previous husband, at some point I transferred the imaginary love story going on in my head to real life. I mean, it led to a real affair and real separation. It's a double-edged sword. You can't have a real relationship by inventing a perfect parallel one in your mind and sticking to it. Sooner or later you will direct your gaze to someone who seems to possess all the qualities of the perfect lover from your imagination, and then - before you have realized that he is far from being it - you will be in for a lot of real trouble. 
My rich imagination has brought me a lot of success but also a lot of pain. 
I'm afraid to use it with my current husband. I don't want to open Pandora's box, not yet  As I have told you previously - first I need to suffer well.


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

badsanta said:


> ... visualizing yourself with an improved partner that better understands and cares for your needs, I think that is the equivalent of having yourself an imaginary friend for an imaginary emotional affair. Awkwardly enough I think this can be a healthy form of meditation ...


Visualizing yourself with an improved partner is how all affairs start. It's a dangerous form of meditation 
But I agree about one thing - talking about divorce, the rarity of sex being a total deal breaker, is a form of differentiation. Of course, the risk remains that your partner may not take you seriously after a certain point any more. I don't know how to strike a proper balance between standing my ground and making concessions. Tell me, *Badsanta*, how can I achieve this?


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

Talker67 said:


> it sounds like he is subtly, maybe even subconsciously, inviting you to dominate and humiliate him.
> why not try it. get some spiked stiletto boots, and some leather lingerie, tie him up, and humiliate him. There can be all sorts of things to try...both sexual and non sexual. he might want you to lock his penis in a cage, and wear the key around your neck, maybe tell all your GFs about it to embarass him publicly. and so on.
> 
> He may love it. You may love it. A lot of people are into this sort of thing. and often, when a person craves this sort of thing they are too embarrassed to ask you for it, but they might hint around.
> ...


Thanks for your creative suggestions! 
However, knowing him and the size of his ego, he wouldn't like to be humiliated like this, even if on some subconscious level, he might like it. His most serious problem is the lack of desire, not how to fulfil desire. If I manage to solve this problem, I will "win the game"!


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Emily Bronte said:


> Thanks for your creative suggestions!
> However, knowing him and the size of his ego, he wouldn't like to be humiliated like this, even if on some subconscious level, he might like it. His most serious problem is the lack of desire, not how to fulfil desire. If I manage to solve this problem, I will "win the game"!


i did not mean that humiliating him was guaranteed to work. it all depends on what turns HIM on.
Maybe he wants to be the DOM and do things to you....that way he would be in charge. Or maybe he wants to try crossdressing. or would like to be bound with ropes....so he is restrained from being dominant by you. Maybe some sorts of role play get him going, with both of you using costumes and acting out your roles. 

the idea is, he may have some specific sexual fantasies playing in his head, and if you can stoke those, his sexual desire might increase bigly!

i do not think he is going to come out an tell you what he secretly wants. so, you will have to figure it out. You can tell if it is working, because his body will tell you!


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Emily Bronte said:


> I don't know how to strike a proper balance between standing my ground and making concessions. Tell me, *Badsanta*, how can I achieve this?


Probably one of the biggest realizations that might help is a shift of perception. There are likely things that happen in your marriage that really hurt and leave you frustrated. It is very easy to either A) feel that your spouse intended to hurt you or B) feel that your spouse does not understand you. Sometimes those may be true but with time you can shift your perspective to a viewpoint that allows you to C) better understand your spouse's motives. 

Just as you claim to have low self confidence, it is very likely that your spouse's self confidence somehow runs parallel to yours. This can manifest itself in all sorts of behaviors that are rather bizarre, mind boggling, and some rather passive aggressive forms of conflict avoidance. Once you can be more aware of how low self confidence manifests itself in your marriage, you can begin to lean into that discomfort and work towards improving it. 

It feel like this. Something hurtful happens, but you lean into it and don't allow yourself to get upset. A mild argument ensues in which you will want to get very defensive and want to make sure your husband understands that he did something hurtful, but you let go of that. Instead you simply try to understand and listen to him explain his actions with a perception that he may be struggling with his own self confidence. Then you look for alternative ways to not be hurtful to one another. 

So when it comes to sex and being rejected, well this might mean that you need to work on a better way to be rejected that does not hurt. For me and my wife that might mean that I'll ask her to give me a back rub. It calms me down and relaxes me so that I don't encounter that moment with frustration and resentment. We can then have a calm and more meaningful conversation about things to better understand each other needs and how to better work together as a team to help each other feel loved. Years ago I would just get frustrated, blame her lack of affection for my upcoming need to just go watch porn and take care of myself while leaving the room and slamming the door shut behind me. I was unable to see at that time that she was suffering with her own low self confidence and just felt as if I was using her for sex and wanted nothing else from her. 

So you can't allow yourself to get angry, inflict pain emotionally, and then withdraw. You have to allow your feelings to happen and then chose to calm down, be a better listener, and communicate. With that will come better teamwork and better skills as a couple to help each other feel loved. 

Badsanta


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Emily Bronte said:


> My rich imagination has brought me a lot of success but also a lot of pain.
> I'm afraid to use it with my current husband. I don't want to open Pandora's box, not yet


Here is what that might look like when you do choose to unleash your imagination with your husband and be open with him about it. You need to be very prepared to explain to him the dynamics of why your imagination likes certain things. He may feel overwhelmed/awkward when he meets your imaginary ideas of how you want him to be for you. He may choose to not really want to participate in this imaginary role of himself. But with some _creativity_ you can visualize his role in a way that involves logistical passiveness in which you take on the responsibility of your implementing the things you desire. 

Say for example you want him to buy you flowers. So you take on the responsibility of ordering them for the house and them ask him to pick them up on his way home. Not as exciting and emotionally fulfilling as him being motivated to do that all on his own, but hey guess what? He will come home delivering you flowers, and the exact ones you want! That some type of creative thinking and taking responsibility for things logistically will work in the bedroom as well. But you have to open up about it and let him know what you are doing and why so that your spouse can easily go along with it and enjoy whatever it is your imagination desires along with you. But be aware that you have to be the one that takes responsibility for your imagination and be the one that makes those things happen. It is not easy at first, but if you can develop this skill with your spouse... (thermo nuclear explosion!)

Cheers, 
Badsanta


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

badsanta said:


> ... to unleash your imagination with your husband and be open with him about it. You need to be very prepared to explain to him the dynamics of why your imagination likes certain things...


It takes two for such a plan to work. 
He doesn't accept any of my complaints - be it the rarity of sex or something else - as truthful or well-grounded. He thinks I behave like a spoiled little girl. 
The only thing that works on him, with only temporary results though, is me standing my ground, raising my voice and upsetting him in the end - basically doing all the things you advised me against. It's sad but true. I can't be open with him because he can't take my openness like a normal, mature person. He takes it as an attack. 
But what you suggest, long term, may work and I'm willing to try it, despite the unsure results. I have to learn to take his behaviour more lightly and less defensively. After all, I can't keep doing the same thing over and over again and expect a different result. I need a change of strategy! 
By the way, he does buy me flowers and does give them to me with the most sincere of words. I know you gave it only as an example but this at least is one thing he does without being forced to.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Marriage with the right partner isn't this hard. Really.


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

Blondilocks said:


> Marriage with the right partner isn't this hard. Really.


I believe that somewhere on this earth there is the right type of partner for everyone but we are just too geographically and chronologically limited to meet him/her. So we have to accept someone from our surroundings, suffering from the illusion that we can change them, forcing them to fit like a shoe that will never fit. 
It is only on very rare occasions that you come across a couple, completely compatible with each other. 
Any time I hear that a successful relationship needs a lot of work and effort, I can't help but feel utter despair.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Emily Bronte said:


> The only thing that works on him, with only temporary results though, is me standing my ground, raising my voice and upsetting him in the end - basically doing all the things you advised me against. It's sad but true.


With my wife I historically would get upset, complain about the lack of sex, and as a result get more sex. Looking back that was a very problematic thing to do because the primary driving dynamic that would get results was "GUILT." You want to be very careful in the event there is a similar dynamic providing you with results as it is very destructive towards someone with low desire. And YES, you likely come across as a little spoiled brat when you do it and get your way in that manner. 

You can do A LOT of things with guilt. Improving your sex life should NEVER be one of them. Take some time and think through that in the event that dynamic is at play in your relationship. 

Ultimately you should be an intrinsically happy person and enjoy sharing positive things with your husband. He as a result should enjoy you sharing those things with him. When it comes to sex, you should share that you enjoy desiring your spouse and that you really enjoy intimacy when it happens. When it does happen you should put an emphasis on how satisfying it was. 

You shouldn't complain about sex, argue about sex, wine about sex, create anxiety around sex (unless it is the playful kind), and use guilt to manipulate your spouse into more sex! Yes it takes two, but if you are confident and positive about yourself and the sexual wellbeing of when something good happens, things should improve. Try and emphasize the things that are positive and only address the negative in a constructive and emotionally balanced way. 

If you need to take a moment and perhaps realize you might behave like a spoiled brat sometimes from your spouse's perspective, that should not be a blow to your self confidence. Instead it should be a wakeup call that you need to focus on the positive and practice a little more gratitude.

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

One of the things that bugs me about this thread is that within the context of starting this thread, it seems like you and your husband have had A LOT of sex. There is just too much anxiety surrounding your neediness for more. 

Exactly how many time have you had sex with your husband in the past month? If it is once or twice a week, then that is what the average healthy relationship is like.


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

badsanta said:


> With my wife I historically would get upset, complain about the lack of sex, and as a result get more sex. Looking back that was a very problematic thing to do because the primary driving dynamic that would get results was "GUILT." You want to be very careful in the event there is a similar dynamic providing you with results as it is very destructive towards someone with low desire. And YES, you likely come across as a little spoiled brat when you do it and get your way in that manner.
> 
> You can do A LOT of things with guilt. Improving your sex life should NEVER be one of them. Take some time and think through that in the event that dynamic is at play in your relationship.
> 
> ...


When sex happens (and if there haven't been any unexpected problems like a loss of erection because then it is made explicitly clear that I am to blame - be it because I talked too much or accidentally hit him during the act), he is always elated afterwards. He feels satisfied and immensely relieved. And I always tell him how great he has been and how bonding this time is for both of us. I show him how happy he makes me this way if he wants to make me happy in any way.
I agree about what you say about guilt. Guilt=Forcefulness. When he wants to have sex with me after a row, I am always unwilling because I call that "charity sex". But then he claims it's not like that. He claims he wants me in such cases because he has been missing me a lot. It's like a vicious circle that goes like this: we have sex, everybody is satisfied, time passes, he doesn't initiate, I still behave lovingly, more time passes, I start to get anxious, a little more time passes, I voice my bitterness, we have a quarrel, we have sex, everybody is satisfied.
You asked me how often we have sex - once every 7-8 days. Sometimes, we have more but I can't envisage when that may happen, what may trigger him positively. I can't catch a pattern. If I did, I would be able to do something.
I like the adverb "historically" at the beginning of your post. Maybe with some history behind our backs (if we were meant to stay together), we would be able to achieve the same long-term harmony as you and your wife.
Thanks for still writing about my problem!


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

badsanta said:


> Exactly how many time have you had sex with your husband in the past month? If it is once or twice a week, then that is what the average healthy relationship is like.


Why does that matter? The only thing that matters for two people in a sexual relationship is that they’re both happy with it. What other people do or what average is doesn’t matter in the slightest.

For what it’s worth a pattern I have seen studying HD/LD in the past year is that if the discrepancy in desire exceeds 3:1 then the relationship will likely have a problem bad enough to where the HD partner starts looking for answers.

For data I have used myself as well as posts on r/deadbedrooms over a large period of time.

It doesn’t matter if the delta is HD wants every week and the LD does every 3 weeks, or the HD wants 3x a day and the LD wants 1x a day. It seems like once the difference in desire gets that large the HD person eventually strikes out somehow.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

ccpowerslave said:


> Why does that matter? The only thing that matters for two people in a sexual relationship is that they’re both happy with it. What other people do or what average is doesn’t matter in the slightest.


Generally speaking comparing frequency of sex with another couple seems problematic. However for those trying to help others, some context helps. I've seen some moderators mention that if sex is less than once-a-month, then it often falls within a legal description for declaring the marriage as sexless and asking for a divorce.

In my opinion once a week or sometimes more seems like a relationship that is reasonably sexually active and that the OP could and should have the patience to allow some time to work on it. If it is less than once a month, then I (and others) would learn towards using divorce as a solution. 

Why does it matter, well because as active as the OP is hopefully she will receive more encouragement to work through her problems as opposed to being advised to divorce.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

badsanta said:


> Why does it matter, well because as active as the OP is hopefully she will receive more encouragement to work through her problems as opposed to being advised to divorce.


Perhaps. 

As a HD person myself what other people do doesn’t matter to me at all. So when someone says, “You should be happy with what you have because <statistic>.” I think it is bad advice. The reason they’re here in the first place looking for information is because they’re not happy. So whatever the frequency is isn’t good enough for them.

If your spouse knows it is an issue for you and they’re not trying to close the desire gap then I think it’s perfectly fine to have divorce on the table no matter how often the frequency is if you’re really unhappy and frustrated.

Just like a couple that rarely has sex but they don’t care. Should they feel like there is a problem because they’re below the clinical definition of a dead bedroom? Of course not because it’s not a problem for them.


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

badsanta said:


> Generally speaking comparing frequency of sex with another couple seems problematic. However for those trying to help others, some context helps. I've seen some moderators mention that if sex is less than once-a-month, then it often falls within a legal description for declaring the marriage as sexless and asking for a divorce.
> 
> In my opinion once a week or sometimes more seems like a relationship that is reasonably sexually active and that the OP could and should have the patience to allow some time to work on it. If it is less than once a month, then I (and others) would learn towards using divorce as a solution.
> 
> Why does it matter, well because as active as the OP is hopefully she will receive more encouragement to work through her problems as opposed to being advised to divorce.


*Badsanta, *I appreciate your advice and wisdom - surely you have more experience than me and you are a well-read person, what's more. 
Of course, I am open to dialogue with my husband as I still love and don't want to divorce him yet. I don't want to throw out the baby with the bathwater  Although I get disheartened and frustrated with his illogical behaviour in regard to sex, I still believe there is a solution to this problem at some point in time. Patience used to be my strong point but after my first disaster of a marriage, I started to run out of this virtue. Time started to press me somehow and the thought that I probably won't have another decade to be patient while unhappy. That's why I may seem impatient and wilful. 
But, like I have said before, I have to change tactics if I hope for a better result. In this respect, your analysis of my situation and advice help me a lot.


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Perhaps.
> 
> As a HD person myself what other people do doesn’t matter to me at all. So when someone says, “You should be happy with what you have because <statistic>.” I think it is bad advice. The reason they’re here in the first place looking for information is because they’re not happy. So whatever the frequency is isn’t good enough for them.
> 
> ...


The irony of my situation is that I didn't know I am an HD person before I met my current, LD husband. And after the sexually intense honeymoon period, when his desire significantly subsided, I came to the bitter realization that what used to be is irrevocably gone. I tried to force myself into my old shoes - the time when sex was unimportant to me (in my previous marriage) but I couldn't. So I have been getting more and more frustrated by this situation ever since. 
I would never have thought I would brandish the word "divorce" because of a lack of sex but here I am - this is what I did some weeks ago (I shared this with you if you remember). The desire gap may or may not ever be bridged (this depends on a lot of factors) but what bugs people in my position is the lack of cooperation and willingness to fix things on the part of the LD partner. What's more, LD partners use the normal sex frequency statistics to show their HD partners that they are perfectly normal and it is you who have to change your level of desire so that it fits theirs. This insistence on them being normal and you being a "sexual predator" is unfair and even offensive.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Yeah the thing is HD/LD are relative.

I pretty rarely want to have sex more than twice a day on a regular basis. Sure the odd 3-4 times a day, but not every day 4 times as an example.

Yet I have read stories on Reddit where HD women are complaining because the frequency they want is 4+ a day and their LD partner can’t keep up with it. 

If I was transplanted into a relationship with such a woman I would be the LD partner. In my case I’m guessing my twice a day with sometimes more is under my 3:1 desire gap ratio and it could work out for her but everyone is different.

The main thing that helped my wife and I get to a balance I can live with is that she agreed our starting point was not acceptable. If you can’t get the LD to agree to that then I’d say you have a big problem.


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Yeah the thing is HD/LD are relative.
> 
> I pretty rarely want to have sex more than twice a day on a regular basis. Sure the odd 3-4 times a day, but not every day 4 times as an example.
> 
> ...


Your wife agreed that your starting point was not acceptable, which is unthinkable to occur in my situation. My husband is perfectly pleased with the once a week pattern, twice a week on very rare occasions (when I voice my discontent usually). And that's it. I have no right to hope for or want more. 
So, by your criteria, yes, we do have a big problem.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Emily Bronte said:


> ...My husband is perfectly pleased with the once a week pattern, twice a week on very rare occasions (when I voice my discontent usually). And that's it. I have no right to hope for or want more.


This can be a big problem depending on one's perspective or not. Comparisons to what is "normal" can be very problematic, especially if used alongside insults. At the end of the day everyone has an ideal frequency for sex. It is equally as problematic to push above this frequency as it is to drop below it. So from that perspective you and your husband are dealing with the exact same problem in that you have a partner pushing for a frequency that is not ideal to what you desire. 

Some couples can work together, but if you have a history of arguing about sex, being passive aggressive, and each of you throwing temper tantrums, it will be very difficult to arrive at a healthy place to be able to discuss these things. 

I am going to recommend a book. I have not read it personally, but I have read many other books by this author to where he talks about the philosophy of this book. It is about communication and understanding the emotional context of certain behaviors:



Amazon.com



Perhaps something of this nature would allow you to engage in better conversations with your husband whenever you reach a point of "impossible" communication on topics like sex and helping each other to feel loved/understood/accepted. His other books are good as well. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Normal frequency or what is normal for each can and will vary.

Five times in the last three day for us, and that's a normal weekend. We do like morning and early afternoon time together.


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

[QUOTE="
You have a partner pushing for a frequency that is not ideal to what you desire.
[/QUOTE]

As a matter of fact, I have a partner pushing for a life that is not ideal to what I desire.

Over the last two weeks I have experienced absolutely no desire to have sex with my husband - so far longed for, craved and shed tears about. It's just like this: I woke up one day and I saw him in all his glory and all his degeneracy, and I felt nothing. Absolutely nothing. 
It may be something temporary, of course, but when he last initiated (without me having shouted previously, entirely of his own accord) I felt cold and unprepared, and I wanted to just go to bed. I had to simulate an orgasm so as not to hurt his feelings.
So, whether this situation is temporary or not, I'm starting to get fed up with the guy who said in our last quarrel, nearly two months ago, that he wasn't obliged to meet my needs.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Emily Bronte said:


> I had to simulate an orgasm so as not to hurt his feelings.


You shouldn't have obliged yourself just to serve his needs. Perhaps this was your opportunity to perturb the situation from his perspective. I take it you didn't read about mind mapping and the issues around hiding your true thoughts from your husband? You should have completely opened up and allowed him to read you during that moment so that he could see nothing there for him in terms of your desire. That would have woken his ass up to a needed reality!


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

badsanta said:


> You shouldn't have obliged yourself just to serve his needs. Perhaps this was your opportunity to perturb the situation from his perspective. I take it you didn't read about mind mapping and the issues around hiding your true thoughts from your husband? You should have completely opened up and allowed him to read you during that moment so that he could see nothing there for him in terms of your desire. That would have woken his ass up to a needed reality!


You are right! I shouldn't have simulated an orgasm so that he gained some insight into what was going on, but alas! I tend to be a people pleaser - one of my greatest shortcomings. 
No, I didn't have time to check out mind mapping but will do soon!
The latest event with me is that we had a huge row yesterday about some domestic issues (not about sex this time) and furious, he packed a few things and left the house. He didn't return last night - for the first time since we've been together. He told me he was leaving me. 
I don't know what to think or do. I only know that our love/marriage story is a dead horse, which sooner or later we will have to get off.
And I'm utterly miserable.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Emily Bronte said:


> And I'm utterly miserable.


That right there is your path forwards, in the sense that you really shouldn't need anyone to make you happy. Yes it is important to learn how to be vulnerable and allow someone to get close in a relationship, which can result in that person hurting you... but if you are inherently happy with who you are as a person then your own self confidence can help to serve as your self defense. 

From everything I have read if you are indeed in a situation where your husband has left and the marriage is now over, this is a time for self reflection. And you should try to do that in a positive way and work on really being in touch with who you are as an individual. Someone that is completely free to do whatever you want and focus just on yourself. Once you find that and invest some energy into enjoying being yourself hopefully you can find someone to share that with that will appreciate you. 

What you don't want to do is jump into any kind of relationship with anyone. Perhaps it will feel good and therapeutic, but that is because the relationship is being "used" to dull the pain from what you describe in your previous post. If anything use your state of being "miserable" as motivation to make a positive change and invest that energy into yourself and knowing who you are. A great place to start is exercising (which you can always do with friends and family if possible) and getting out in nature to go for walks/hikes. If you find yourself really needing some companionship and cuddles, odds are there is a rescue pet at your local animal shelter that would take on that role for you as your therapy pet. 

Best wishes!


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

badsanta said:


> That right there is your path forwards, in the sense that you really shouldn't need anyone to make you happy. Yes it is important to learn how to be vulnerable and allow someone to get close in a relationship, which can result in that person hurting you... but if you are inherently happy with who you are as a person then your own self confidence can help to serve as your self defense.
> 
> From everything I have read if you are indeed in a situation where your husband has left and the marriage is now over, this is a time for self reflection. And you should try to do that in a positive way and work on really being in touch with who you are as an individual. Someone that is completely free to do whatever you want and focus just on yourself. Once you find that and invest some energy into enjoying being yourself hopefully you can find someone to share that with that will appreciate you.
> 
> ...


Thanks for consoling me and investing so much of your time in my case.
I am a strange hybrid between someone who lacks self-confidence and self-sufficiency, but on the other hand - has a good bond with herself and enjoys her own company. I don't have a problem being on my own, and if my marriage really ends one day, I'll probably spend at least a year just by myself. I have been seriously broken-hearted on two occasions so far, in my younger years, but time really healed me and I was strong enough to even say "no" to the same men who after leaving me, decided to return to me after some time. 
As a whole, I suffer the most when I lose my illusions. 
As for my "wandering" husband, he came back home today. He said I was killing him with my spiteful words but nevertheless he loves me, loves our child and doesn't want a divorce. I said "ok" perfectly knowing that it's only a matter of time for another family row to take place, but being exhausted by the whole negative experience, I accepted what he said. He initiated sex (reconciliation sex has always been his speciality), but this time I told him I was not in the mood, so he was free to just get a release on his own - I'd help him. And it happened like this. Lately I haven't been very favourably disposed towards intimacy. I don't know what's got into me.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Emily Bronte said:


> ...I said "ok" perfectly knowing that it's only a matter of time for another family row to take place...


Given that you feel at the brink of divorce, you can now actually do some real work on your marriage by not caring about it. That sounds so messed up, but in my opinion can be a very good thing. It means you have emotionally differentiated yourself. You no longer need to fake arousal or an orgasm just to protect you husband's ego. This hopefully means that the next big argument with your husband can remain emotionally stable and calm. Instead of allowing yourself to get upset and emotional, you can focus on being constructive with your criticism. You can also listen and try to understand why your husband behaves the way he does regarding areas of the relationship where he seems to be unforthcoming.

I forget what book I was reading, but it talked about anger and hate in relationships. Those are feelings that growing up we are always taught that they are inappropriate and immature. However in a long term marriage we have to confront those feelings with a spouse and learn how to address them in a constructive way. In my opinion those feelings are ultimately a queue for personal development that needs to occur. Keep in mind that if you feel hate and anger towards your spouse that it very well could be a backwards manifestation of your own low self confidence (of some aspect of yourself) that you need to work on. I also read somewhere that hate and anger are a disguise of one's own vulnerability that you may be unwilling to acknowledge and confront openly and calmly.

Really work on being yourself. If there is something huge in you marriage bothering you, put it out there and do so with complete calm. Don't become fused with your husband's emotions, but instead try to understand his vulnerabilities and appreciate them when you see him loose his cool. That may create a path forwards for you two or reveal you paths to each calmly go your own way.

Regards,
Badsanta


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Emily Bronte said:


> Thanks for consoling me and investing so much of your time in my case.
> I am a strange hybrid between someone who lacks self-confidence and self-sufficiency, but on the other hand - has a good bond with herself and enjoys her own company. I don't have a problem being on my own, and if my marriage really ends one day, I'll probably spend at least a year just by myself. I have been seriously broken-hearted on two occasions so far, in my younger years, but time really healed me and I was strong enough to even say "no" to the same men who after leaving me, decided to return to me after some time.
> As a whole, I suffer the most when I lose my illusions.
> As for my "wandering" husband, he came back home today.* He said I was killing him with my spiteful words but nevertheless he loves me, loves our child and doesn't want a divorce.* I said "ok" perfectly knowing that it's only a matter of time for another family row to take place, but being exhausted by the whole negative experience, I accepted what he said. He initiated sex (reconciliation sex has always been his speciality), but this time *I told him I was not in the mood, so he was free to just get a release on his own - I'd help him.* And it happened like this. Lately *I haven't been very favourably disposed towards intimacy. *I don't know what's got into me.


So over three months he continues to blame you for him not being a caring husband to you. So why would you "help him" get a release of his own? Of course you aren't "favorably disposed towards intimacy?" How could you be with a selfish uncaring man who only cares for what he needs. 

Wish had positive advice for you, seems to me that nothing tried has changed anything. Had the client with silicone lips never shown up, you might not have known that your "husband" was capable of performing adequately. Maybe he is addicted to the rush of a new flame. I believe you mentioned before that divorce was difficult in your country and that men in general are raised to be as your husband is. So given this is male number three(?) in your life and none of them have been keepers, it wouldn't seem likely that number four would be any better.

So what are your options? Start taking care of your needs by other means, or divorce and risk finding the another like the first three.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

It sounds like a dynamic of shelving issues, not directly facing them and resolving together, which then puts distance between you; and then to minimize that distance afterwards, and motivated by the feeling that the relationship is now threatened, sex occurs. And this pattern loops. It sounds exhausting and damaging and, dare I say, emotionally immature. Then what occurs if you no longer go along with that sexual pattern? I also wonder what could occur if when you have conflict, you're approaching the issue together as 'we' and/or expressing what you each need from the other for that particular thing in order to move forward so that it doesn't occur again, and while keeping the conflict to what sparked it; rather than potentially bringing in other topics and then escalating to nastiness, no resolution or shared understanding, distancing from or shelving the problem that escalates disconnection, and then loops back to makeup sex?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Openminded said:


> Yes, he was very likely fantasizing about her — and you were available. Happens a lot more than women realize. That’s the truth.


That's horrible to hear. I deserve more than to be a warm wet hole. If that is true, and that is what he is doing, I'd rather be alone. How utterly humiliating and dehumanizing.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

TexasMom1216 said:


> That's horrible to hear. I deserve more than to be a warm wet hole. If that is true, and that is what he is doing, I'd rather be alone. How utterly humiliating and dehumanizing.


Sad but it happens. Many are easily bored.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Openminded said:


> Sad but it happens. Many are easily bored.


Looks like I'm headed for divorce. I NEVER want to hear a single man EVER complain about "she hurt my feelings" after learning I've been used my whole life.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Looks like I'm headed for divorce. I NEVER want to hear a single man EVER complain about "she hurt my feelings" after learning I've been used my whole life.


You can do it! Spend some time preparing on your time schedule, don't let anyone try to put you on their time table whether its H, lawyer, family or friends. 

There will be obstacles but the pay off for a happier life is if course well worth it, and good you're getting started. Yay you!


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> You can do it! Spend some time preparing on your time schedule, don't let anyone try to put you on their time table whether its H, lawyer, family or friends.
> 
> *There will be obstacles but the pay off for a happier life is if course well worth it, and good you're getting started. Yay you!*


 Yeah, I was happy til I learned from Openminded that my husband has never been attracted to me and has been thinking of someone else while using me like a mindless piece of meat the entire time. That whole "yeah you should TOTALLY initiate sex with your husband, he wants you to," you guys were all lying there, too, huh? He's never been attracted to me at all, just thinking of other women and using me. I'm glad I didn't follow THAT terrible advice. Do you all get together and laugh at women? "Dumb fat C*^t asked me to f&#$ her, I had to pretend she was that one girl at work, stupid b%@#%$." Is that how that works?

16 years and I never knew he was just using me. I guess I should be grateful. He'll be surprised for sure, this will come out of nowhere for him.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Yeah, I was happy til I learned from Openminded that my husband has never been attracted to me and has been thinking of someone else while using me like a mindless piece of meat the entire time. That whole "yeah you should TOTALLY initiate sex with your husband, he wants you to," you guys were all lying there, too, huh? He's never been attracted to me at all, just thinking of other women and using me. I'm glad I didn't follow THAT terrible advice. Do you all get together and laugh at women? "Dumb fat C*^t asked me to f&#$ her, I had to pretend she was that one girl at work, stupid b%@#%$." Is that how that works?
> 
> 16 years and I never knew he was just using me. I guess I should be grateful. He'll be surprised for sure, this will come out of nowhere for him.


I don’t believe I said that applies to everyone but it does apply to some.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Yeah, I was happy til I learned from Openminded that my husband has never been attracted to me and has been thinking of someone else while using me like a mindless piece of meat the entire time. That whole "yeah you should TOTALLY initiate sex with your husband, he wants you to," you guys were all lying there, too, huh? He's never been attracted to me at all, just thinking of other women and using me. I'm glad I didn't follow THAT terrible advice. Do you all get together and laugh at women? "Dumb fat C*^t asked me to f&#$ her, I had to pretend she was that one girl at work, stupid b%@#%$." Is that how that works?
> 
> 16 years and I never knew he was just using me. I guess I should be grateful. He'll be surprised for sure, this will come out of nowhere for him.


WTH are you talking about, lol?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Yeah, I was happy til I learned from Openminded that my husband has never been attracted to me and has been thinking of someone else while using me like a mindless piece of meat the entire time. That whole "yeah you should TOTALLY initiate sex with your husband, he wants you to," you guys were all lying there, too, huh? He's never been attracted to me at all, just thinking of other women and using me. I'm glad I didn't follow THAT terrible advice. Do you all get together and laugh at women? "Dumb fat C*^t asked me to f&#$ her, I had to pretend she was that one girl at work, stupid b%@#%$." Is that how that works?
> 
> 16 years and I never knew he was just using me. I guess I should be grateful. He'll be surprised for sure, this will come out of nowhere for him.


Wow, you're swinging back and forth. Hold the line. 
His failings aren't your concern at this point. His loss. Hold that in your mind.

This is now a freeing experience for you. You have the rest of your life to live your best life on your terms.

What will you do with this opportunity?


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Yeah, I was happy til I learned from Openminded that my husband has never been attracted to me and has been thinking of someone else while using me like a mindless piece of meat the entire time. That whole "yeah you should TOTALLY initiate sex with your husband, he wants you to," you guys were all lying there, too, huh? He's never been attracted to me at all, just thinking of other women and using me. I'm glad I didn't follow THAT terrible advice. Do you all get together and laugh at women? "Dumb fat C*^t asked me to f&#$ her, I had to pretend she was that one girl at work, stupid b%@#%$." Is that how that works?
> 
> 16 years and I never knew he was just using me. I guess I should be grateful. He'll be surprised for sure, this will come out of nowhere for him.


Whoa, get a grip! Emily's situation is nothing like yours unless you're holding back relevant information. I think you're being oversensitive to words taken completely out of context. Noone gets together to laugh at women or refer to them in the manner YOU did. People have been very supportive to you and don't deserve your ire.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Wow, you're swinging back and forth. Hold the line.
> His failings aren't your concern at this point. His loss. Hold that in your mind.
> 
> This is now a freeing experience for you. You have the rest of your life to live your best life on your terms.
> ...


Well, a lot of nothing. Raise my son alone. Never date again, I can assure you of that. I'd rather be alone than be used like piece of meat. It's humiliating. If I'm past the time when a man would want to be with me then I will be alone. I'm no one's consolation prize and I will NEVER be a burden to anyone. Besides, if he's disgusted by me he deserves to be happy too.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I'm ONLY talking about the post from Openminded that said that all men have to imagine other women because they're easily bored. (I'm not sure who Emily is.) I am shocked that men would post that I should initiate sex (*which I realize is dragging another topic on to this thread and I was wrong do that*) when this is how men really are. But you're correct, no one deserves ire for finally telling me the truth. It sucks when your worst fears are realized, and I lashed out. I apologize, it wasn't directed at you certainly.


Emily is the poster who asked for help on THIS thread. I agree with Openminded, but you quoted her saying something completely different to what you went off on.

Anyway, out of respect for Emily, I won't be posting further to this thread. Good luck to you.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

TXTrini said:


> Emily is the poster who asked for help on THIS thread. I agree with Openminded, but you quoted her saying something completely different to what you went off on.
> 
> Anyway, out of respect for Emily, I won't be posting further to this thread. Good luck to you.


Neither will I. It was selfish of me, I freaked out and made it all about me. I'm so sorry, Emily.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I'm ONLY talking about the post from Openminded that said that all men have to imagine other women because they're easily bored. (I'm not sure who Emily is.) I am shocked that men would post that I should initiate sex (*which I realize is dragging another topic on to this thread and I was wrong do that*) when this is how men really are. But you're correct, no one deserves ire for finally telling me the truth. It sucks when your worst fears are realized, and I lashed out. I apologize, it wasn't directed at you certainly.


I *did not say *ALL MEN did that.

Quit putting words in my mouth.

And quit thread jacking.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Openminded said:


> I *did not say *ALL MEN did that.
> 
> Quit putting words in my mouth.
> 
> And quit thread jacking.


Your point about thread jacking is VERY true. I do apologize for that. I apologized to the OP over it and will be very careful not to do that again.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Emily Bronte said:


> Hi, everyone! Although I have posted a couple of publications so far, I can say I'm new to this forum and I find it thoroughly enlightening!
> My husband and I have been together for 4 years now. He doesn't initiate sex at all or if he ever does, that's on Saturday night, and that's if we haven't had a row previously. I'm already tired of seeking intimate attention; the struggle has been long and unrewarding. Anyway.
> We run a business together (a training center), and last month there appeared this new client of ours - a young medical student with silicone lips, long hair and pervert glasses on. My husband initially didn't take any notice of her, he totally dislikes bimbos and women who have had some cosmetic alterations to their faces, but as their lessons progressed, he started speaking highly of her - how bright she was despite the superficial looks and so on. He began defending her whenever we were discussing her appearance and behaviour (she wasn't in the habit of saying "hi" to anyone when she turned up at the center, which I find really impolite, and so does he under normal circumstances).
> One thing happened though, which I had never expected. He suddenly became potent and willing to have sex with me. He started cornering me anyplace he saw fit. He started initiating sex especially right after the lesson with her. I didn't know what to attribute this sudden interest in me to. It was insane! We spent nearly a whole month, having sex every day.
> ...


Once every 10 days? ********! Im 49 and my wife 53 and it is usually daily. If he said 2x week maybe. In the past when we had little kids my wife was soo preoccupied with busy things to realize she had a husband....we were at about where you are. And i was on the verge of divorcing her because i was miserable and felt unloved by her.

If he is under 40 and only looking for every 10 days...something is wrong. Maybe he is spanking his monkey every day/night and that is replacing you. Whatever it is, he has an issue.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Emily Bronte said:


> She doesn't need the said glasses but wears them for the image - big dark-rimmed glasses (combined with enlarged lips and the dirty look - it works wonders, believe me!).


Most women i see the fat lips on first thing i think is Damn girl you need some Benadryl? Does not even look anywhere close to natural! I call'em monkey lips. You know how a chimps can pooch their lips out?


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Emily Bronte said:


> As he finds nothing wrong with his attitude, he sends ME to therapy. But I'm not inclined to do so by myself. How can a therapist resolve my issue since it's him that doesn't want to have sex?!
> And, you are right - women can't have sex unless they are emotionally involved, the same can't be said about men.
> But isn't it somehow paradoxical? You don't want to screw your wife generally, but at the same time it is still her that you want to do when good fantasy material presents itself.
> Please, tell me where the truth is.
> I have always believed that you either desire someone and want to f.... them (against whatever odds) or you just don't.


Your generalizations about men and women are incorrect. There are alot of men and women both that have sex without emotional involvement. Hookup society today. Hookers.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Openminded said:


> Yes, he was very likely fantasizing about her — and you were available. Happens a lot more than women realize. That’s the truth.


It also goes both ways. I have had friends that had a big uptic in sex with wives reading SOG, etc. I told them, dude they are screwing their idea of Christian Grey in their mind, you are just a live dildo she is using. Was not long before she started screwing other men.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Well, that threadjack was a TRIP. Some people need to chill the hell out.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Emily Bronte said:


> [QUOTE=" As a matter of fact, I have a partner pushing for a life that is not ideal to what I desire.
> Over the last two weeks I have experienced absolutely no desire to have sex with my husband - so far longed for, craved and shed tears about. It's just like this: I woke up one day and I saw him in all his glory and all his degeneracy, and I felt nothing. Absolutely nothing.
> It may be something temporary, of course, but when he last initiated (without me having shouted previously, entirely of his own accord) I felt cold and unprepared, and I wanted to just go to bed. I had to simulate an orgasm so as not to hurt his feelings.
> So, whether this situation is temporary or not, I'm starting to get fed up with the guy who said in our last quarrel, nearly two months ago, that he wasn't obliged to meet my needs.


The thing with being a female, emotional creatures that we are, is that we try and try and try. We forgive, move on, forgive move on, we cry and hope and it is the hope for change that keeps us going and we can go for a very long time. However, when the cold hard reality of our situation really sinks in, we switch off, we mourn, we weep, we get angry and then we let go. Once we let go, there is nothing, there is no going back, there is no forgiveness, there is no hope there is only indifference. When a woman is done, she is done. Sounds like you might be there.


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## crashdawg (11 mo ago)

I realize the desire to get outside opinions but the only data given was that a "young hot student" showed up in your lives and your husband went from 0 to full throttle with you. When her training was complete and she left the full throttle plummeted back to 0. Without more data the only logical conclusion would be "it was her".

Maybe your omission was by mistake and it was expanded with more data in subsequent posts. Maybe your initial post was intentionally narrowed to reaffirm what you already believed.

It's entirely possible that student " got him going". It's entirely possible something else "got him going". The only way I would know to separate things is to ask if it's happened before or since... or if anything else occurred in the limited time span you've described.


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## crashdawg (11 mo ago)

Divinely Favored said:


> Once every 10 days? ******! Im 49 and my wife 53 and it is usually daily. If he said 2x week maybe. In the past when we had little kids my wife was soo preoccupied with busy things to realize she had a husband....we were at about where you are. And i was on the verge of divorcing her because i was miserable and felt unloved by her.
> 
> If he is under 40 and only looking for every 10 days...something is wrong. Maybe he is spanking his monkey every day/night and that is replacing you. Whatever it is, he has an issue.


The one thing I've noticed is that frequency and duration depends on the couple, their health, and their boundaries at that stage in the relationship. Sometimes there's up ticks. Sometimes there down turns... but it's difficult for anyone but that couple to say "this is normal for us".

If one partner isn't satisfied (clearly the OP wasn't) it needs to be clearly communicated to the other partner. That's easier sa.said then done.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Zombie Cat says it's time for this thread to be put to bed.


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