# Time needed for improving intimacy problems?



## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

For those on TAM for both a short period and long period of time... when a marriage encounters problems with intimacy (such as an HD/LD imbalance), how much time was needed for improving those issues for them to no longer be an area of serious concern?

My answer on that would probably have changed over time given that many likely go through periods of short term success. But the subsequent failures eventually became easier and easier until things have arrived in a much more balanced place. I still struggle with a few things, but that is more about preemptive problem solving as opposed to an ongoing dispute over something. 

Regards, 
Badsanta 

(Poll to be included)


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

I don't think discussion ever fixes any problems with intimacy between a man and a woman.
Only ACTION can work as a catalyst. 
Quit talking and start doing. 
I was married 25 years and never resolved intimacy issues, because she was abused as a child and I was codependent. 
She still does not know what real intimacy is.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

I voted marriage ended. Issues began on honeymoon. 2 decades was enough misery.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Ho much time is needed and how much it take can be two very different things. 

Very little time is needed if both people are aware of the problem, agree on the problem, and are fully committed to to putting in the effort to move toward a solution, even if that means other things may have to be neglected.

That's a lot of conditions though, and rarely if ever are they all met, at least at problem offset. There is no set or standard time for an individual, let alone a couple, to wake up and then to commit. 

How long it takes to get to the finish line is highly dependent on where you draw the starting line.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Ho much time is needed and how much it take can be two very different things.
> 
> Very little time is needed if both people are aware of the problem, agree on the problem, and are fully committed to to putting in the effort to move toward a solution, even if that means other things may have to be neglected.
> 
> ...


I completely agree with that. Even I admit in my OP that my answer to this question would change over time depending on when I might be asked. But for any given marriage that has gone through problems, I have to imagine most people would have an answer. 

As far as a starting line in the sand, yes it varies but I imagine most couples can tolerate up to a year of intimacy problems before hitting a breaking point and deciding to do something about it. I once did a poll to see how long people would endure a sexless marriage before considering divorce and got a wide variety of results: https://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-m...riage-sexless-before-considering-divorce.html


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

In my experience, never. That's why I call it "incompatibility". Oil and water, baby.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

badsanta said:


> I completely agree with that. Even I admit in my OP that my answer to this question would change over time depending on when I might be asked. But for any given marriage that has gone through problems, I have to imagine most people would have an answer.
> 
> 
> 
> As far as a starting line in the sand, yes it varies but I imagine most couples can tolerate up to a year of intimacy problems before hitting a breaking point and deciding to do something about it. I once did a poll to see how long people would endure a sexless marriage before considering divorce and got a wide variety of results: https://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-m...riage-sexless-before-considering-divorce.html




Isn’t this just a revisit of that thread?


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Elizabeth001 said:


> Isn’t this just a revisit of that thread?


Well, sexless and sex-troubled are not the same thing.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Cletus said:


> Well, sexless and sex-troubled are not the same thing.




Sweet...so can we just jump straight to penis size? 




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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Elizabeth001 said:


> Sweet...so can we just jump straight to penis size?


Um, you first.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Cletus said:


> Um, you first.




Sweet x2!

I like the medium range myself. But knowing how to use it is key 

And if he ain’t jumping all over it in 6 months, something is wrong. I think I covered most major illnesses in there. 

Woot! 


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Well in rethinking the previous thread, I think a few weeks is a reasonable limit. After that, being with others, can be a reasonable solution.

As to penis size, I am happy with mine.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

In my experience a few weeks worth of giving oral sex, anal sex and pretty much anything else a really good go. Goes a very long way to make those things, become frequent ongoing activities going forward. What seems to work best when addressing those intimacy problems, is getting comfortable with one thing, before introducing another.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

All I know is 30 years isn't long enough. (though we are temporarily in a very good spell - but I'm wise enough to know it won't last)


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## workerbee (Feb 15, 2018)

I can't vote, still waiting for improvement. 
Although there are times things seem better, but we always end up at the same damn impasse. 

So far it's 23 years, but to be fair I've only been lighting a fire under his ass the past 5 years, so I should probably vote that.
But no resolution yet, so nevermind.......
Doubt the poll will be open when hell freezes over and our issues are solved.
Call me an optimist!


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Not solved after 34 years... so, I've given up. I do believe it _can_ be solved, but both partners need to have some baseline compatibility, which, obviously can be present at the beginning.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

There are different sorts of intimacy. A marriage can be good in some respects and less good in others. You have to make a choice about what is important.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

I think knowing how long it took others to fix things is relevant mostly for deciding how long it is reasonable to try before giving up. Because a bunch of people never fix the problem. It is good to know how long it took those who eventually fixed it to fix it. Not because that indicates how long it should take anyone else to fix it. But because it indicates when to stop working on fixing it and start working on accepting it or leaving.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Cletus said:


> Elizabeth001 said:
> 
> 
> > Isn’t this just a revisit of that thread?
> ...


Not to mention THAT thread focused on how long before one leaves. THIS one focuses on how long it take to improve.

So no...NOT the same.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Wazza said:


> There are different sorts of intimacy. A marriage can be good in some respects and less good in others. You have to make a choice about what is important.


True

That is why we have friends and family.

Let's face it, sex is pretty much the BIG thing that separates marriage from those.

It's important.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Elizabeth001 said:


> Sweet...so can we just jump straight to penis size?


Did you know that the use of cellphones selfies has drastically increased the prevalence of nose jobs. 

https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2018/3/1/17059566/plastic-surgery-selfie-distortion

...Apply what you just learned and ask yourself if you ever gotten a **** pic taken with a professional portrait lens from about twenty feet away? Probably not. Now that would just be awkward.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

personofinterest said:


> True
> 
> That is why we have friends and family.
> 
> ...


Of course, but you have to take it further.

Is ok sex in the context of a well rounded relationship, with lots of shared interests, values and experiences with someone you can deeply trust better or worse than bedroom-exploding orgasmitronics with someone who reduces you to a quivering heap of sexual jelly, then goes out and gambles away the rent money?

Fixing intimacy can be partly about making the sex better, but it’s also about working out what is possible and what is your walk away point. Requiring that your partner want the same things as you is a bit like insisting they don’t order chicken because you prefer beef.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Wazza said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> > True
> ...


Because those are only two options.

In my case it was sex less than once a year with a passive aggressive spouse who couldn't keep a job.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

personofinterest said:


> Because those are only two options.
> 
> In my case it was sex less than once a year with a passive aggressive spouse who couldn't keep a job.


If it was like that for two decades and you kept trying, you are a stronger person than I am. As you said, sex is important. I don’t think I could keep my vow of fidelity with that frequency.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Wazza said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> > Because those are only two options.
> ...


It wasn't always, though it was always lower frequency than I wanted. It oozed into once a week, then once a month, then years of a handful of times a year, then less than once a year....when he sensed I was close to "done," he'd initiate a bit more and reject less until I hot comfortable again.

I really believe he had his own issues - of asexuality or homosexuality. He just couldn't be who he wasn't.


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## MaiChi (Jun 20, 2018)

Personal said:


> In my experience a few weeks worth of giving oral sex, anal sex and pretty much anything else a really good go. Goes a very long way to make those things, become frequent ongoing activities going forward. What seems to work best when addressing those intimacy problems, is getting comfortable with one thing, before introducing another.


Are we saying INTIMACY is penetration of the female spouse with a penis by the male spouse? If it is I am sure if the infrequency of that causes any issues, she could just grit her teeth and bear it three or four times per week I am not sure either of them would find that an improvement in intimacy. 

Or is it more complex than that? 

There is a lot of people in marriages, going through bouts of mild mental illness doe to the general pressures of building families. Spouses need to always try to be on the same page on most days.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

personofinterest said:


> Not to mention THAT thread focused on how long before one leaves. THIS one focuses on how long it take to improve.
> 
> So no...NOT the same.


In my previous thread, I started that one because there are those that seem to be too loyal for too long regardless of an ability to solve a problem. You get some of those people here on TAM giving advice right beside someone who refuses to solve problems and runs is out the door if sex where to stop for less than a month. When people are working through problems there is a percentage that immediately jump to the notion of "just divorce" and move on while others will take someone who should obviously divorce and convince them there is hope. It helped me put a lot of advice I have received on this forum into a better context. 

Now when it comes to solving problems and actually making a change for the better... Once a couple goes down that road TOGETHER, it is a rather uneasy journey. Some try to go at it alone and carry their partner with them, but that is like climbing uphill on an icy slope that is constantly melting and cracking beneath your feet. 

Some people get out of the rut and understandably many do not. For those that do, I do appreciate knowing how much time needed to be invested. For those that do not, it is also helpful to point out to others that some people can't change and an incompatibility is what it is. 



> I really believe he had his own issues - of asexuality or homosexuality. He just couldn't be who he wasn't.


I do think there are many cases of nonbinary sexuality that grew up being taught to conform to binary standards. All the LGBTQIA issues have always been in society, and for the most part people are just now being open about it. When I was in High School, no one was gay. To hear my teenagers talk about High School today, it sounds as if about half the school is now transgender. As is, "so and so was born female and is now trans and in a relationship with a gay guy. If they do it, it has to be straight sex, but in reality they are two gay guys." A few decades ago that would pass as just a normal relationship, nothing different about it! I guess now the new generation is taught to be true to themselves, so hopefully there will be less confusion.

I wonder how many marriages are sex starved today because people were historically shamed into trying to be "normal?"

As always, thanks for your feedback.

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

MaiChi said:


> *Are we saying INTIMACY is penetration of the female spouse with a penis by the male spouse?* If it is I am sure if the infrequency of that causes any issues, she could just grit her teeth and bear it three or four times per week I am not sure either of them would find that an improvement in intimacy.


No, this isn't a gender thing.

For example in the first instance when my wife and I were dating, she had no experience of giving blowjobs and was scared to try. So I told her she'll get lot's of practice, and that it would be fine. So she gave it a good go through a few weeks.Through that practice she found she was fine with doing that, became good at it, found it turned her on, found she was fine with cum swallowing it and cum facials.

Coming from a place of having zero experience in doing that, combined with a fear of it. She addressed that problem, by talking about it and giving it a go for a period of time. As a consequence of that, blowjobs from her have been a constant and frequent activity throughout our relationship. So that sexual intimacy problem was resolved, by her giving it a go and finding out that she came to enjoy doing it.

Likewise as part of addressing one thing at a time, she tried doing the 69 for oral sex through a few weeks. Through that practice she found out that she wasn't a fan of doing it at all. It was too distracting for her with her doing me, so she wasn't enjoying herself. As a consequence of that, we don't do 69s together. So that sexual intimacy problem was solved, by not keeping that activity within our repertoire.

Or there's things like rimming, she found out that she didn't feel comfortable receiving rimming. So I don't rim her, since she doesn't like receiving it despite giving it a good go. While it turned out she is happy to rim me when I want it. So she rims me because I enjoy the experience and she is happy to do it to me.

The problem of anal sex took weeks to work out. To begin with she understandably had trepidation over it, yet she was willing to give it a go.

At first it was an uncomfortable experience for her in the first instances, in part because she was very tense, which doesn't help. So through a few weeks, she learned to relax to accommodate anal penetration. We tried various positions, plenty of lube, starting small followed by then having her work up to bigger things. We also tried a numbing cream, yet quickly abandoned it since feeling pain is a good warning of problems.

Then through lots of practice during those few weeks, she found there were ways to do it that didn't hurt and also found out she didn't mind anal penetration So she was happy to keep doing it, which addressed that sexual intimacy problem.

Over time she then found that she enjoys anal sex, finds it sexually stimulating and can even orgasm through anal penetration, although those orgasms are infrequent versus vaginal penetration. She especially likes being double penetrated at the same time through the vagina and anus.

Receiving anal penetration for me was the same. At first it was uncomfortable yet given a few weeks of giving it a go. I enjoyed anal penetration and prostate massage, from my wife using her fingers or a manufactured phallus. So that sexual intimacy problem was resolved through giving it a go for a few weeks and talking about it.

Then there was the intimacy problem of spanking, when I wanted to smack my wife's behind. Yet after giving it a go and talking about it. She has found that she doesn't like it, so we solved that sexual intimacy problem by not having spanking in our repertoire.

Then there are changing sexual intimacy problems. I have always liked to play with, tease and bite my wife's nipples. Which she liked as well, up until she gave birth to our first child together. Ever since then her nipples sometimes hurt and are frequently very sensitive, so it is generally hands off for me.

Except for the fact that through giving it a go for a few weeks and talking about it. We found out my wife gets extremely excited near orgasm, when she has her nipples pulled hard and bitten on. So that sexual intimacy problem was solved by adjusting when it's done, following talking about it and giving it a go for a few weeks.

Then there was the sexual intimacy problem of me wanting to do golden showers on her. While in the first instance, she wasn't keen on the idea in the first place. She was willing to talk about it, consider it then give it a good go as well.

As a consequence of that, she found out she is happy to let me pee in her mouth (she lets it run out of her mouth) and pee on and in her as a sexual thing. With the provision that it isn't all the time, that I drink lots of water beforehand and that I am responsible for cleanup. So that problem was solved as others were through talk and giving it a good go for a while.

At the end of the day at least for me, solving sexual intimacy problems are best addressed by talking about it and trying to address them for at least a few weeks.

With the caveat of, if someone is experienced in having already given whatever a good go with someone else beforehand. Then they already know if it is for them or not, which is why with one partner I was fine with no anal sex at all. Since she already knew she didn't enjoy it ,after having already given it a good go elsewhere.

So deciding not to do things or deciding to do things, accepting or not accepting things are all reasonable ways to address sexual intimacy problems.

As to the idea of grinning and bearing something. If someone keeps doing things sexually that they hate, they ought to stop doing them. That said if someone chooses to do something they don't like, that choice is on them through their own agency.


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## aquarius1 (May 10, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> Not solved after 34 years... so, I've given up. I do believe it _can_ be solved, but both partners need to have some baseline compatibility, which, obviously can be present at the beginning.


Same boat here. 33 years and counting. Lots of action in the first 12 years, then kids arrived. Between kids, mental health issues, job stress and LACK of communication (the louder I protested, the angrier I got, the more resentful I became, the more withdrawn he became) it has been a rollercoaster ride of long silences/sexual droughts (6months to a year at a time) and periods of reconciliation and activity. Years of on and off counseling. Why did we stay? Not sure. Fear, fatigue, staying for the kids, money and the hope always for better times. Was there infidelity? I know that while I was tempted early in our marriage I never did. Did he? Not sure. There have been red flags but I just didn’t investigate. 
Fast forward to 3 months ago. After years of searching the internet for answers we reached critical mass. We were both talking divorce for over a year, resigned. Then something changed. After a major health scare something snapped. I watched YouTubes by Esther Perel and Dr John Gottman and others. Read articles, books. Lurked here. Long story short I dove into this marriage head on. I just couldn’t exist the way I had been existing. I realized that rather than demanding change, I was the one who had to change. Why? Because I was the one who wanted the change. In all fairness we were in a better place now to improve. Kids finally launching etc. 
This is the longest good stretch we’ve ever had, and I’m determined to keep it going. Oh yeah, we’ve had fights like always and stresses (job loss, emergency evacuation) but we turned towards each other eventually, rather than away. New concept. Thanks to some men here who are willing to be open I realized how truly important intimacy is for my partner. It’s not just sex as I always believed. He is committed to being more open, communicating his feelings more. I’ve learned that people won’t open up unless they have a safe environment to do so. My responsibility is to create that safe environment. So is his. 
Will it last? Who knows. One thing we both know. We can’t ever go back there. It’s this or it’s over. We are propelled forward. Intimacy and sex every day in some form or another. Frequent touching, flirting. Guess what? We re-discovered that while I thought I was LD we are both HD, and I’m more HD than he is. Close the bedroom door and lock it. Being in each other’s arms. Leave the madness outside. Reconnect. I will keep you posted.


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

As long as one partner sees the other as an adversary when it comes to physical and mostly emotional intricate you’re not together. Most people have pain/trauma that they are protecting themselves from. Some people are insecure and won’t admit they’re wrong. Some have sexual trauma in their past and don’t want to revisit it or be triggered. 

Real intimacy starts when you can unilaterally surrender emotionally to your partner and own the unpleasant stuff about yourself and ask for help or at least understanding. Much like a hostage negotiator taking off their vest and gun to approach a suspect. Yep, you’re vulnerable but that’s emotional intimacy. On the other side you have to be able to lovingly say “you get it” and help be part of whatever change they wanna make. If your partner was sexually molested as a child than you need to know how to navigate it.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

"I wonder how many marriages are sex starved today because people were historically shamed into trying to be "normal?""

In my circle I personally know 5 women whose husbands eventually left or were asked to leave because the husbands were closeted gay men that eventually couldn't take it anymore. All of them were in my denomination. I am Not saying that as an attack on church. However, all of those men were church music directors. And there was an unspoken requirement that male church music directors must be married in order to ensure they were not gay.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

aaarghdub said:


> As long as one partner sees the other as an adversary when it comes to physical and mostly emotional intricate you’re not together. Most people have pain/trauma that they are protecting themselves from. Some people are insecure and won’t admit they’re wrong. Some have sexual trauma in their past and don’t want to revisit it or be triggered.
> 
> *Real intimacy starts when you can unilaterally surrender emotionally to your partner and own the unpleasant stuff about yourself and ask for help or at least understanding. Much like a hostage negotiator taking off their vest and gun to approach a suspect. * Yep, you’re vulnerable but that’s emotional intimacy. On the other side you have to be able to lovingly say “you get it” and help be part of whatever change they wanna make. If your partner was sexually molested as a child than you need to know how to navigate it.
> 
> ...


Wow, I really like that comment. But I would not exactly say that it is surrendering. More like calling a one-sided truce, completely disarming yourself and waiting until the other sees no need to keep attacking/defending.

That can be an extraordinarily difficult thing to do. Awkwardly I have seen many break down and do exactly this during a divorce and just let the other completely clobber them during the proceedings. One situation was where a wife was having an affair for many years and the husband decided to end the marriage. She got an attorney, full custody of the kids, and he now pays her child support and alimony. She brainwashed the kids into hating him for leaving their mom. 

So YES I strongly agree that is what is needed to help fix and improve a relationship. But you can NOT refuse to defend yourself and be vulnerable when it comes time to end the relationship. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

personofinterest said:


> "I wonder how many marriages are sex starved today because people were historically shamed into trying to be "normal?""
> 
> *In my circle I personally know 5 women whose husbands eventually left or were asked to leave because the husbands were closeted gay men that eventually couldn't take it anymore.* All of them were in my denomination. I am Not saying that as an attack on church. However, all of those men were church music directors. And there was an unspoken requirement that male church music directors must be married in order to ensure they were not gay.



The fact that you claim five married men in your church that all worked together in the same department were all gay... *NO FREAKING WAY.* Perhaps one or two. But I am sure the wives in some of those marriages were just as conflicted and just can not admit to their own problems and instead chose to redirect blame. Some of the men in those marriages if heterosexual are probably just confused as to what happened, and once a woman labels a such a man as gay how exactly does he defend himself? 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## JJ812 (Jul 1, 2018)

There is no right answer just opinions based off of personal experiences obviously but one factor would definitely be how long the intimacy issue has been going on and to what level of dissatisfaction one or both people have had. I think words do help if they’re coming from the right person...Acting alone isn’t always the answer if you don’t know what actions to take or if you’re implementing the actions at the wrong time..My short answer is at least one year


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

JJ812 said:


> There is no right answer just opinions based off of personal experiences obviously but one factor would definitely be how long the intimacy issue has been going on and to what level of dissatisfaction one or both people have had. I think words do help if they’re coming from the right person...*Acting alone isn’t always the answer if you don’t know what actions to take or if you’re implementing the actions at the wrong time*..My short answer is at least one year


Thanks for the feedback.

If I had to point out the one thing that is frustrating, it is the notion of being one person in the relationship pulling all the weight and trying to make improvements. I went through that and I think this came across to just validate my wife's perception that I was not happy with her and that she was inadequate. But it did signal that I was trying to help and find ways for our relationship to improve.

When you read about the dynamics of sexual intimacy in a long term relationship everything is driven by personal development. Are you happy with yourself? Are you pursing your life's goals? Do you know who you actually are? Are some of your goals unrealistic? Can you embrace failure as an opportunity to learn? Can you pick yourself up when you fall down? Are you proud of yourself? Is your life out of balance? What things actually make you happy? (and many more of those types of questions) .... when there are problems related to those questions there will also be problems in the bedroom. Solving problems in the bedroom means you have to work on all those questions TOGETHER as a couple, and YES in my opinion as well it will take a YEAR or more to start finding the answers to feel right.

These are all problems we face regardless of wealth, and I think Casey Neistat illustrates that rather well in this video:






But you have to ask those questions as a COUPLE and answer them as a COUPLE in order to progress. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

badsanta said:


> The fact that you claim five married men in your church that all worked together in the same department were all gay... *NO FREAKING WAY.* Perhaps one or two. But I am sure the wives in some of those marriages were just as conflicted and just can not admit to their own problems and instead chose to redirect blame. Some of the men in those marriages if heterosexual are probably just confused as to what happened, and once a woman labels a such a man as gay how exactly does he defend himself?
> 
> Regards,
> Badsanta


First of all, I never said they worked in the same department.

They were all in my circle of friends and acquaintences.

I could care less what you believe. I could name each of them, but you don't know them, and I don't dox.

But yes, I know of FIVE men who married, had children, and then came out or were discovered. 2 of them were discovered when they were arrested for soliciting prostitution, one of those being an underaged boy.

All 5 of the women divorced their husbands. One husband is trying to reconcile after deciding he is straight after all. I wouldn't even try, but it's her life.

Here is how you label a man gay: you bail him out of jail for hooking up with another man for money.....or you find him in a hotel sucking on a guy.

Need any more clarification??????


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

personofinterest said:


> Here is how you label a man gay: you bail him out of jail for hooking up with another man for money.....or you find him in a hotel sucking on a guy.
> 
> Need any more clarification??????



Why the solid label of gay? Why not bisexual, transexual, pansexual, intersexual or queer. Those labels could also apply.

https://lgbtqiainfo.weebly.com/acronym-letters-explained.html


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

badsanta said:


> Why the solid label of gay? Why not bisexual, transexual, pansexual, intersexual or queer. Those labels could also apply.
> 
> https://lgbtqiainfo.weebly.com/acronym-letters-explained.html


As a wife who is in this position, I can tell you that, at least in my case, it really doesn't matter what the label is...your marriage isn't what you thought it was and it's devastating.

On the one hand, I don't really care whether my STBX identifies as gay or bisexual as I can't get past all the lies and the fact that he was searching for strangers to have sex with and had no concerns for what filthy disease he could bring home to me. If he had told me he was bisexual when we first got together I would have wished him well and asked to stay friends. I would never have married him. 

On the other hand, I care very much because if he is strictly gay then EVERY intimate moment I had with him over 25 years was a lie. The conception of my children was a lie. The knowledge that he had to force himself to be with me hurts in a way I can't describe and makes me feel violated. Had I known that, I would never have dated or slept with him, much less married him.

But, having spent a lot of time on support forums for straight spouses, I can tell you that in many of these types of cases, the husband comes out as bisexual, and the wife struggles with whether she can live with that, only to finally have him come out as strictly gay sometime later.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

notmyjamie said:


> As a wife who is in this position, I can tell you that, at least in my case, it really doesn't matter what the label is...your marriage isn't what you thought it was and it's devastating.


Ouch. 

((( HUGS )))


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

notmyjamie said:


> On the other hand, I care very much because if he is strictly gay then EVERY intimate moment I had with him over 25 years was a lie.


Well by having sexually intimate moments with you he cannot be strictly gay at all, so in that respect you needn't worry about that point.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

badsanta said:


> When you read about the dynamics of sexual intimacy in a long term relationship everything is driven by personal development. Are you happy with yourself? Are you pursing your life's goals? Do you know who you actually are? Are some of your goals unrealistic? Can you embrace failure as an opportunity to learn? Can you pick yourself up when you fall down? Are you proud of yourself? Is your life out of balance? What things actually make you happy? (and many more of those types of questions) .... when there are problems related to those questions there will also be problems in the bedroom.


You know having great sexual intimacy throughout a long term sexual relationship, needn't be that complicated.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

notmyjamie said:


> As a wife who is in this position, I can tell you that, at least in my case, it really doesn't matter what the label is...your marriage isn't what you thought it was and it's devastating.
> 
> On the one hand, I don't really care whether my STBX identifies as gay or bisexual as I can't get past all the lies and the fact that he was searching for strangers to have sex with and had no concerns for what filthy disease he could bring home to me. If he had told me he was bisexual when we first got together I would have wished him well and asked to stay friends. I would never have married him.
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing your story and sorry for your pain. 

I do agree if that your partner were open and honest from the beginning that it would have been an easier choice. It is unfortunate that many people are reluctant to self explore and understand who they are before getting married, and they rely on society to tell them who they should be.

The problems I struggle with in my own marriage is simply a wife with zero libido that has always been that way. Early in the marriage she was very receptive to my advances but I never noticed that she would never initiate anything. She never self explored and still has no inclination to do so. If we were to ever divorce she claims she would be perfectly happy without a partner or sex ever again, and I believe she is being honest when she says that. By definition society would perhaps paint that as a picture of someone that is asexual perhaps. I choose to not put any label on it, because as you say it does not even matter when you are in a relationship that is struggling. All you can do is your best to work through problems and try to love your spouse or choose to move on. 

In regards to the conversation about homosexuality and other forms of nonbinary orientations, it is in regards to the new generation currently growing up. My teenage kids tell me stories from their high school, and it is as if everyone now embraces who they actually are within the LGBTQIA+ spectrum of sexuality. So if it is any consolation our kids should grow up in a world that they will better know who they are getting married to as opposed to previous generations that get married and THEN discover who they are. 

As for various forms of sexuality, heterosexual men have the same problems. They have historically gotten married to women that do not fall into the category of a cisgendered heterosexual women. Later on these women discover that they are not attracted to men and perhaps around the age of forty they finally come out and discover who they really are. Now does that make everything that happened before that a lie? Well you can't exactly lie about who you are if you don't know who you are. Unfortunately you can not exactly let someone love you completely if you don't know who you are.

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Sorry, I don't consider it being "okay" for a spouse to sleep around or deny sex because they are "fluid" to be a better world.

Your remarks are extremely insensitive to people who have been through the pain of being duped and denied and possible cheated on due to these issues.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

badsanta said:


> For those on TAM for both a short period and long period of time... when a marriage encounters problems with intimacy (such as an HD/LD imbalance), how much time was needed for improving those issues for them to no longer be an area of serious concern?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




My situation improved fairly quickly. However I’m not sure the answer will be uniform...Plus once it’s improved it doesn’t mean it will stay that way...
Sounds like a cliche but it’s a bit like a garden you need to attend to and maintain regularly...And not to forget to apply fertiliser from time to time 
(That applies to the whole marriage thingy too).

There are a few things that I noticed help universally. I can list them again.

What is it that you still struggle with?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

badsanta said:


> For those on TAM for both a short period and long period of time... when a marriage encounters problems with intimacy (such as an HD/LD imbalance), how much time was needed for improving those issues for them to no longer be an area of serious concern?
> 
> My answer on that would probably have changed over time given that many likely go through periods of short term success. But the subsequent failures eventually became easier and easier until things have arrived in a much more balanced place. I still struggle with a few things, but that is more about preemptive problem solving as opposed to an ongoing dispute over something.
> 
> ...


Sorry, just so that I understand how to answer the poll: by "how long it would take to improve intimacy problems" do you mean before the partner gives up or leaves? Or how long it took to fix them? I understood the latter but looking at replies, maybe you are asking the former?

To be honest, my tolerance threshold is quite low it turned out...More than a week without and I start asking questions. And if there's an ongoing issue (without good reasons), I make an issue out of it (it happened once only, after kids' births, when I joined the forum and actually there were biological reasons for this but I still made an issue out of it and it seems she 'got it' fairly quickly or her 'biology' improved. I can't be certain which. Could have been a bit of both).


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

personofinterest said:


> "I wonder how many marriages are sex starved today because people were historically shamed into trying to be "normal?""
> 
> In my circle I personally know 5 women whose husbands eventually left or were asked to leave because the husbands were closeted gay men that eventually couldn't take it anymore. *All of them were in my denomination.* I am Not saying that as an attack on church. However, all of those men were church music directors. And there was an unspoken requirement that male church music directors must be married in order to ensure they were not gay.


I am glad I didn't have to say it this time....
Funny how people think you can 'ensure' someone is not gay by marrying them  A little bit sad too. Did they like Elton John too? :smthumbup:


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Personal said:


> Well by having sexually intimate moments with you he cannot be strictly gay at all, so in that respect you needn't worry about that point.


Thank you. I tell myself that, but I don't really believe it. I've seen posts (in other forums) from gay men who were able to perform with their wives but identify as completely gay. Once they start sleeping with men, they can't perform with their wives anymore. 

It is what it is...nothing I do can change it anyway. I just have to learn to live with it...which I'm doing...slowly but surely. Everyone has **** in their life that they have to deal with and this is mine. I refuse to let it ruin the rest of my life.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

personofinterest said:


> Sorry, I don't consider it being "okay" for a spouse to sleep around or deny sex because they are "fluid" to be a better world.
> 
> Your remarks are extremely insensitive to people who have been through the pain of being duped and denied and possible cheated on due to these issues.


I did not say those things were OK, I just said (or was trying to say) that it is hard to love someone if that person does not know who he/she is. 

Look at the history of how we as a society have tried to identify non-binary individuals:

In the 1940s it used to just be the gay community 
In the 1970s it would just be the gay or lesbian community
In the 1990s bisexual and transgendered were recognized
Later QIA queer/questioning, intersex/intergender and asexual/ally was added
and the "+" to include all other forms of sexuality such as pansexual. 

Future generations are now open and discussing these things by high school age. So moving forwards hopefully people better understand who they are before getting married. The general public should also have improved awareness and tolerance as well to help let go of the shame and end the pain. 

As far as people that lie, cheat, and deny a spouse, well that happens everyday in completely heterosexual marriages. That is a different topic that should not be mixed with LGBTQIA+ awareness. It is understandable that there may be some correlation by people that are unaware of their identity, but that it not what made them lie, cheat, and deny a spouse in my opinion. Lying, cheating, and denying a spouse is just bad moral character regardless of who you are. 

Sorry if my comments seem insensitive. Did not intend them that way...

Regards,
Badsanta


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

InMyPrime said:


> What is it that you still struggle with?


My wife does not understand what a libido is. She claims that the notion of sexual desire (the way most people would describe it) is something she does not think she has ever felt. So from that point of view she sees my libido as something that just makes her feel inadequate (because she can not relate to it).

Despite that we manage to love and accept each other and have a mutually fulfilling intimate life. I have to do all the initiating and motivating for anything to happen. Otherwise my wife is just as content to be sexless.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Ho much time is needed and how much it take can be two very different things.
> 
> Very little time is needed if both people are aware of the problem, agree on the problem, and are fully committed to to putting in the effort to move toward a solution, even if that means other things may have to be neglected.
> 
> ...



I like the above answer.

When DW gets mad because "x", my action is typically Sweetie can you take a break from being mad, you know you want to, you can see I reeaallyy want to, and 99% of the time it's on in a big way. 

She'll still punch me afterwards and say "I'm still mad" but the road to recovery is now well greased, hehehe.

Mostly sex at those times is like she's trying to break me and leaves marks, but I'm unbreakable, she can get everything she wants in a hard way, and for some reason it's the best.

Probably she's the one that has me trained, I never thought about that yet, so maybe I've learned something here.

Afterwards she always asks if I'm hungry and I always say let's go out for dinner. 

We have a couple days here and there when she says I'm not talking to you I'm mad, but never more than two, then some riding like a green broke pony, and we're back to normal.

Lord, she doesn't have any issues telling me why she's mad, so no problematic intimacy issues I guess.

Things mostly lead to sex. I'm not sure exactly why that's our pattern, but I roll with it.

My own intimacy issues? I really don't have any. If I'm put out, I go get or do whatever I'm hoping to get, if she's not on board then ok, I'm a big boy, I'll take care of it.

I really don't think about it much. But I'm trying now to understand things a bit better, but things work, so I give up and am ok knowing she'll show me when I'm painting outside the lines. 

I rarely get mad at her, mostly amused, and that leads to a punch, then sex, and I'll apologize, and we're back.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Sh!!,

Maybe I'm the one she's trained! This just dawned on me. She is a planner.

Now:
I was raised to always care and protect your W and family, and be aware some women are nuts (sorry) but find the right one, listen to and respect her, and she'll guide you as you need, but work hard, play hard, live your own life because there are ups and downs in all things. Share your life with loved ones. Enjoy your family, God willing.

(That's my whole principle in a nutshell)

But as I think about it, I swing a wide loop but she always has the ability to pull me in, care for me as required. 

🙂😍😍 maybe I'm the happily trained monkey!

See? That's why I don't overthink things. Because really I don't care how it works, but it does.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

badsanta said:


> My wife does not understand what a libido is. She claims that the notion of sexual desire (the way most people would describe it) is something she does not think she has ever felt. So from that point of view she sees my libido as something that just makes her feel inadequate (because she can not relate to it).


Does she have (female) friends she can talk to about this kind of stuff? Does she understand that a female libido works differently from the male? (Being more reactive). 
I am curious as to why she feels she needs to be able 'relate' to your libido? 



badsanta said:


> Despite that we manage to love and accept each other and have a mutually fulfilling intimate life. I have to do all the initiating and motivating for anything to happen. Otherwise my wife is just as content to be sexless.


Some questions for you if that's ok:
What's the longest you have gone 'sexless' and how do you know she was ok about it?
Do you feel comfortable being the 'initiator' and 'in charge' when it comes to sex or do you feel you are missing something vital and wish your wife would show more initiative?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

badsanta said:


> For those on TAM for both a short period and long period of time... when a marriage encounters problems with intimacy (such as an HD/LD imbalance), how much time was needed for improving those issues for them to no longer be an area of serious concern?
> 
> My answer on that would probably have changed over time given that many likely go through periods of short term success. But the subsequent failures eventually became easier and easier until things have arrived in a much more balanced place. I still struggle with a few things, but that is more about preemptive problem solving as opposed to an ongoing dispute over something.
> 
> ...


Obviously varies by individual.

We had one bump in our road brought on by bitter church ladies influencing Mrs. Conan.

It probably went a couple weeks before I caught on that something was amiss and then I observed for about a month and a half or so to determine for sure.

I then had a pointed and heartfelt conversation with my sweet after which she immediately ravaged me senseless and we haven't had problems in that area since.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> Obviously varies by individual.
> 
> We had one bump in our road brought on by bitter church ladies influencing Mrs. Conan.
> 
> ...


I am thinking that the amount of time the HD partner "let's things go" or avoids the conflict probably plays a part in how long it takes to fix things (if they are fixed). I was a shy virgin when I married, but boy was I looking forward to sex! I had heard so frequently about how "it's all men think about" from my married friends, I really was like a deer in headlights when that wasn't the case. Instead of actually confronting it, I spent a few years trying passive ways to fix it - being better, cleaning house more, wearing pretty nighties, etc. It was probably 8 or so years into our marriage before I directly and verbally told him how badly it was affecting me. Oh, he knew because I had spent a lot of time crying and sad, and when he had dragged it out of me, I had told him. That would be followed by maybe a month of affection and intimacy, followed by the same old pattern.

Ex-H told me about 15 years into my marriage that since I never complained when we first got married, he just assumed I didn't care either. HIS meaning was that I missed my open window to complain at the beginning, so he wasn't gonna change now!

Of course, his excuse was BS, but I do wonder if a LD spouse who has assumed for 10 years it's fine is harder to turn around than one who is told pretty quickly - "uh, no, it's not gonna work this way"


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

InMyPrime said:


> Does she have (female) friends she can talk to about this kind of stuff? Does she understand that a female libido works differently from the male? (Being more reactive).
> I am curious as to why she feels she needs to be able 'relate' to your libido?


What pisses me off is that almost all her female friends are the exact same as her and all claim that sex is not important and they could just do without and be just as happy. Perhaps there is a particular personality trait that makes it easy for her to befriend like-minded female friends. So when we argue, she says that I am the odd one for wanting/needing sex. 

She initially tries to relate to my libido as if it the same as hers and she assumes that sex is just not important and can't understand why I am so needy/pushy. When she tries to understand what I am going through, she seems to understand some people have a high drive and appetite but at the same time she has never experienced that. So the concept of someone wanting or needing sex is NOT something she can relate to. 




> Some questions for you if that's ok:
> What's the longest you have gone 'sexless' and how do you know she was ok about it?
> Do you feel comfortable being the 'initiator' and 'in charge' when it comes to sex or do you feel you are missing something vital and wish your wife would show more initiative?


When we had the most problems, she would easily go over a month as if nothing. She would complain that sex just seemed like a chore (to make time for it, even though she enjoys it when it happens) and then have to reschedule her entire day.

At this point I know it is all on me to initiate, and I am at peace with that. In the mental space that I am I have grown comfortable with that as I can manage my own desire in a way that I make the most of things when we have our moments together. As far as initiating things, I get things started (not easy) and once my wife is aroused she enjoys being in charge of what happens next. It is kind of like I am in charge of foreplay and she is in charge of everything after that. From that perspective I am happy.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

badsanta said:


> What pisses me off is that almost all her female friends are the exact same as her and all claim that sex is not important and they could just do without and be just as happy. Perhaps there is a particular personality trait that makes it easy for her to befriend like-minded female friends. So when we argue, she says that I am the odd one for wanting/needing sex.


Crap, that, I didn't anticipate...It is possible though that she is telling you this for you to quit complaining (in her eyes). OTOH, do you know how her other friends go about it? Do their husbands just bear it not having sex?
I am sure you know this but the way the conversations are supposed to go is that none of you should try and make each other feel like the 'odd one out'. However I would try and stress to her that *for you*, intimacy is a way for you to feel loved and that you feel miserable without it. You can't help it. Just as she can't help feel like she can't relate to it. It will probably come down to how self-aware she is to understand it from your POV in the end...

I had this conversation with my wife just this morning. Since I got back from a long trip, she has been initiating and jumping me pretty much every day and I told her how much it meant to me...She however acted surprised saying that 'you do know that this is not the only way I show my love to you?'. It honestly took me a little while to get my memory in order to try and figure out what she meant by it and what those 'other ways' could be  It just illustrates the very fundamental differences between what partners actually mean by 'expressing their love'. (In fact, I still can't quite remember...I think maybe she said something about being nice to me etc. And in my mind, the image of 'being nice' once again included various activities that she performed on me in the morning...in other words, whoever designed my male brain, has a real sense of humour by forgetting to tweak my wife's brain and making the two a bit more compatible 



badsanta said:


> She initially tries to relate to my libido as if it the same as hers and she assumes that sex is just not important and can't understand why I am so needy/pushy. When she tries to understand what I am going through, she seems to understand some people have a high drive and appetite but at the same time she has never experienced that. So the concept of someone wanting or needing sex is NOT something she can relate to.
> 
> When we had the most problems, she would easily go over a month as if nothing. She would complain that sex just seemed like a chore (to make time for it, even though she enjoys it when it happens) and then have to reschedule her entire day.
> 
> At this point I know it is all on me to initiate, and I am at peace with that. In the mental space that I am I have grown comfortable with that as I can manage my own desire in a way that I make the most of things when we have our moments together. As far as initiating things, I get things started (not easy) and once my wife is aroused she enjoys being in charge of what happens next. It is kind of like I am in charge of foreplay and she is in charge of everything after that. From that perspective I am happy.


Ok so from what you write next, it seems like she enjoys sex when it happens (which is great). And in those situations, I feel that it really comes down more to both partners coming to terms with the idea that their libidos are just different and it doesn't mean either is wrong or odd, just different. I really don't think that's a bad thing. It's just a thing...and I would just build on that and try to instil confidence in her (by avoiding making her feel like she might be odd...which I know you are not doing). 
And also count your blessings that at least "once my wife is aroused she enjoys being in charge of what happens next". Because that is VERY different from "my wife won't have sex with me no matter how hard I try".

Because once my wife felt that she wasn't getting judged or 'marked' for her 'performances', she became much more confident and as a side effect, now initiates on balance much more than me...Another thing that really helps is that my job requires me to travel and have a life etc on a regular basis. It turns out it is actually a fantastic aphrodisiac. When I am at home for too long....not good. I don't know why but that's just the way it is. And I am ok with that.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

badsanta said:


> She initially tries to relate to my libido as if it the same as hers and she assumes that sex is just not important and can't understand why I am so needy/pushy. When she tries to understand what I am going through, she seems to understand some people have a high drive and appetite but at the same time she has never experienced that. So the concept of someone wanting or needing sex is NOT something she can relate to.


I think this is a typical situation. It's hard to say you'll ever really resolve the situation. The best case scenario is you figure out what pattern of behaviors and actions you need to do in order to get her in the mood. But the progress will solely be dependent on your effort. If you slack off, her willingness will decline. It's like Sisyphus rolling the rock up the hill. Eventually you may figure out efficient ways to roll the rock up the hill and get good at not letting it roll down, but you will always feel the force of the stone pressing down against you. You'll know you are the only one rolling it up the hill. If it slips down, she won't help you roll it back up. She'll be more likely to say, "Why don't we just leave it down there. It seems so much trouble to keep rolling it up the hill."

But *improvement* can happen quickly. Lots of things can be considered improvement. Going from never to once a year is improvement. Things should improve after just talking. If there's no improvement at all after bringing up the issue, it's probably not really worth trying to fix it anyway.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

badsanta said:


> Thanks for sharing your story and sorry for your pain.
> 
> I do agree if that your partner were open and honest from the beginning that it would have been an easier choice. It is unfortunate that many people are reluctant to self explore and understand who they are before getting married, and they rely on society to tell them who they should be.
> 
> ...



I know for a fact that the reason my husband hid his desires for so many years is because of the response he got from his family, friends, and classmates when he first started to experiment with his sexuality. It was ugly!!! Of course he went straight back into the closet. But he did more than just hide, he convinced himself he was just curious about it but was straight. He idealized what a relationship with a woman would be like...he used to want to emulate things he saw on tv...right down to what vows we said at our wedding. It's sad. If he'd been allowed to be who he really was he and I would be much better off right now. 

I don't believe that people "don't know" that they have certain proclivities. I think they know but bury them very deep and pretend they don't exist. That's not the same as not knowing. It's sad that society and the people around them force them to hide the truth even from themselves. 

I talk to my kids all the time and make sure they know that if they have these thoughts, desires, etc they should explore them freely and figure out who and what they really are and no matter what conclusion they come to, they'll always have my love and support. End.of.story

I'm sorry you're struggling with your wife. And she is dead wrong, not all women feel as she does that sex is abnormal as we get older. It's possible that not all of her friends feel that way either...she may just be saying that to convince you that her opinion is right.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

badsanta said:


> She initially tries to relate to my libido as if it the same as hers and she assumes that sex is just not important and can't understand why I am so needy/pushy. When she tries to understand what I am going through, she seems to understand some people have a high drive and appetite but at the same time *she has never experienced that*. So the concept of someone wanting or needing sex is NOT something she can relate to.


Wow, that must be hard, no pun intended! :laugh: So, your wife never had any libido at all? Since you got together? I find it difficult to believe that. But, to be honest, I would prefer that to a wife who had plenty and then lost it and that can't be bothered to make a little effort for her long-suffering husband...


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

badsanta said:


> What pisses me off is that almost all her female friends are the exact same as her and all claim that sex is not important and they could just do without and be just as happy.


My wife claims the same. All her female friends (in their 50s) are not having sex with their husbands anymore. And now she doesn't either.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

InMyPrime said:


> Crap, that, I didn't anticipate...It is possible though that she is telling you this for you to quit complaining (in her eyes). OTOH, do you know how her other friends go about it? *Do their husbands just bear it not having sex?*
> I am sure you know this but the way the conversations are supposed to go is that none of you should try and make each other feel like the 'odd one out'. However I would try and stress to her that *for you*, intimacy is a way for you to feel loved and that you feel miserable without it. You can't help it. Just as she can't help feel like she can't relate to it. It will probably come down to how self-aware she is to understand it from your POV in the end...


In my marriage I demand a basic frequency be met and my wife now understands the importance. She knows that we have to make things happen in the event things have not happened more naturally after a certain period of time passes (1 week for example). Now I do not hold my wife to that demand, but she very well understands how difficult it makes things for me to continue to be patient versus her putting forth just a little effort to make it a priority. 

In contrast these other husbands do not stand up for themselves and just get passive aggressive. They go MONTHS without. 



> I had this conversation with my wife just this morning. Since I got back from a long trip, she has been initiating and jumping me pretty much every day and I told her how much it meant to me...She however acted surprised saying that 'you do know that this is not the only way I show my love to you?'. It honestly took me a little while to get my memory in order to try and figure out what she meant by it and what those 'other ways' could be  It just illustrates the very fundamental differences between what partners actually mean by 'expressing their love'. (In fact, I still can't quite remember...I think maybe she said something about being nice to me etc. And in my mind, the image of 'being nice' once again included various activities that she performed on me in the morning...in other words, whoever designed my male brain, has a real sense of humour by forgetting to tweak my wife's brain and making the two a bit more compatible


My wife and I had a somewhat similar conversation about what we each need to feel in a loving way towards one another with regards to being receptive for physical intimacy. This is where we are opposites. If we are disconnected, have not spent time together, and are under a lot of stress, that is when I crave intimacy. If we are connected, recently spent a lot of time together, and are relaxed, that is when my wife is more receptive to intimacy (I however begin to crave my own personal space at that time because I already feel loved and energized to go out and do something fun).




> Ok so from what you write next, it seems like she enjoys sex when it happens (which is great). And in those situations, I feel that it really comes down more to both partners coming to terms with the idea that their libidos are just different and it doesn't mean either is wrong or odd, just different. I really don't think that's a bad thing. It's just a thing...and I would just build on that and try to instil confidence in her (by avoiding making her feel like she might be odd...which I know you are not doing).
> And also count your blessings that at least "once my wife is aroused she enjoys being in charge of what happens next". Because that is VERY different from "my wife won't have sex with me no matter how hard I try".
> 
> Because once my wife felt that she wasn't getting judged or 'marked' for her 'performances', she became much more confident and as a side effect, now initiates on balance much more than me...Another thing that really helps is that my job requires me to travel and have a life etc on a regular basis. It turns out it is actually a fantastic aphrodisiac. When I am at home for too long....not good. I don't know why but that's just the way it is. And I am ok with that.


My wife and I share the same career and are actually co-workers all day. So we have a lot of time together at home and at work. Most couples in our scenario could NOT maintain the closeness that my wife and I have. Occasionally she travels out of the country to spend a few months with her family and she enjoys getting a break from our constant togetherness. Ironically she gets needy when we are apart and wants to call/chat/video-conference for long periods of time. Particularly when she gets frustrated by being around her family and just wants to be back home with me where she is respected. 

For my wife she needs me to be two people for her. Number one she needs me to be a friend, and number two she needs me to be a helpful co-worker. If 95% of our time together is teamwork as co-workers to her that is as if we have not spent anytime together and she feels disconnected as friends. So my job as a friend is to help her mentally escape from work and do something relaxing and fun. Admittedly that can be challenging for us when work is stressful and there are still time sensitive problems to solve left residing in our minds over the weekends.

So @InMyPrime imagine waking up everyday and working alongside your wife. Coming home everyday and still talking about work with your wife. Parenting together and teaming up for the business of just running a home together until time for sleep. But none of that counts as the quality time that you still need from each other. And by that point we both need some personal space to decompress. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

badsanta said:


> In my marriage I demand a basic frequency be met and my wife now understands the importance. She knows that we have to make things happen in the event things have not happened more naturally after a certain period of time passes (1 week for example). Now I do not hold my wife to that demand, but she very well understands how difficult it makes things for me to continue to be patient versus her putting forth just a little effort to make it a priority.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Just make sure you don’t accidentally end up having an affair with your co-worker. Forbidden fruits? There’s her fantasy 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

InMyPrime said:


> Just make sure you don’t accidentally end up having an affair with your co-worker. Forbidden fruits? There’s her fantasy
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Haha! We role play that one all the time. When my wife sometimes rejects my advances, I'll start talking about this hot coworker that is always giving me attention and how she would probably be way better at satisfying me. My wife will ask me why I think she would be better and I'll go into describing how she has no idea of all my faults and her vision of me is ideal which would allow me to conquer her! My wife ends up ROFL!!!


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

As I said in Tasorundo's thread, I'm glad I'm out of these "games". I miss my wife a lot, but the efforts to get her to have sex with me have completely drained any will to live from me... in a figurative manner...


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> As I said in Tasorundo's thread, I'm glad I'm out of these "games". I miss my wife a lot, but the efforts to get her to have sex with me have completely drained any will to live from me... in a figurative manner...


Everyone has a different story and a different context. In some scenarios a little "game" can just be playful banter and helpful for self development. In other scenarios a little "game" can be the precursor to something emotionally draining and a path of self destruction. Both are slippery slopes and look much the same...


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