# Does the fog exist if they leave for the ow?



## Unhappy_girl (Aug 19, 2015)

I have been reading a lot about the affair fog. What are your thoughts on whether it exists if your ws leaves for the ow/om? Can they truly be in a fog or is it just a load of rubbish?


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

I would guess that it depends on how the new relationship turns out. If they are happy ever after, then I imagine either that they weren't in the fog or the view in the fog was similar to the view without the fog.

Of course this is hard to tell initially, but generally the fog clears up fairly quickly after they actually live together in the open.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Unhappy_girl said:


> I have been reading a lot about the affair fog. What are your thoughts on whether it exists if your ws leaves for the ow/om? Can they truly be in a fog or is it just a load of rubbish?


Yes, it's real.

Yes, he's probably in it.

Yes, it's a load of bullsh*t.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

After my ex cheated then left (or left mentally then went on to other things if you'd ask her) she went on to remarry fairly quickly, had another baby even and by outward appearances seems genuinely more happy than when married to me. So either there was no fog, fog lifted but in no particularly noticeable way to her or else she rushed into her new relationship too quickly and the fog of her affairs when with me is still there.

I stopped waiting to find out if she was in a fog the day I took my ring off and accepted that it was over for me.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Having never been in the fog myself I can't say if it's real or not. I know my WW claimed to be in one as she cried for me to take her back. At that point I couldn't believe anything she said...

It's hard to find the line between fog, justification, lies, bull**** and selfishness in my opinion.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

The fog is real but then it requires they commitment to make work their new relationship work. They've burn the bridges so now there is an interest in making it work. When you see a spouse leave their long term marriage, blowing up kids lives to be with some old flame they hadn't seen in 15, 20 years or worst yet some stranger they met on internet, then how can you say the fog wasn't real.


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

It impossible for them " to find the line between fog, justification, lies, bull**** and selfishness" they are as lost as you are and have no idea themselves. It's that mind wrecking
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Sometimes the fog really is love. And sometimes the fog that led you to marry your spouse was delusion. Which it is depends on the long term outcome, IMO.


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## nursejackie (May 22, 2015)

I don't know from experience but I do know -my friends WS left her after 25 years of marriage for an OW half her age. The BS sold their marital home went to counselling and basically did the 180. Within a year he was coming by to pick up the kids early and asking to come in for a cup of tea (no) or to meet for coffee to discuss the kids (no) and eventually said he had made a mistake and wanted to know if they could get back together? (no) all the while still living with the OW...

He was definitely in the fog previously- he said he had to leave his wife because OW needed him, wanted him… she was too young to get over the hurt if he left and he was willing to blow 25 years of marriage out the window. He wanted his wife to make friends with her, to "help"her out, and he also thought she might want to do their taxes for them since she had always done his…

He had 2 children close to the same age as this OW. His children wanted nothing to do with him after that. She was no looker either. The kids likened her to looking like the female troll on Shrek. Sooooo I think the fog was thick and when he left it dissipated quite fast. Reality sets in.They ended up in a one bedroom apt with nothing in the fridge and no support system.

When I was in my A I had a dream that I was sitting on the sidewalk between OM and H and they both looked at me and walked away disgusted. Deservedly so. 

It is easy to live in the fog when there are no bills to pay, no kids to raise, no in laws, no mortgages, no retirement and education to save for, no clothes to wash or pick up, no dinners to make, no house to clean, cars to fix, no nagging, no expectations... no responsibilities…

Real life and real love is different - It stands the test of time , it overcomes the obstacles , it moves on when it can. ( I get that it isn't possible for everyone to move on)


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Unhappy_girl said:


> I have been reading a lot about the affair fog. What are your thoughts on whether it exists if your ws leaves for the ow/om? Can they truly be in a fog or is it just a load of rubbish?


Well, something is definitely clouding their thinking, at least from a 'normal' perspective. I don't think it's something that can be removed, or pass if you wait long enough, though.

I just figure the fog is the cheater mindset. I don't like something, therefore I'm going to distract myself from it. Once the rosiness wears off from their distraction though, they don't 'come out of the fog' they just find a new one.

After all, isn't is just as clouded to think that the spouse you betrayed would want you back if things don't work out with the AP?

I don't like the word fog for this phenomenon. That makes it sound like something external, that rolls in temporarily and then can be swept away again under the right conditions. More like a fog machine, carefully set up, activated and regularly replenished by the cheater, to shut out the voices of reason and the mores of society so that all that exists is the affair.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Unhappy_girl said:


> I have been reading a lot about the affair fog. What are your thoughts on whether it exists if your ws leaves for the ow/om? Can they truly be in a fog or is it just a load of rubbish?


I was in an affair fog. I was blissfully unaware that I was having an Emotional Affair until I was about to have unprotected sex with my AP and suddenly the fog was blasted away from my head and I realised I'd become a cheating POS. 

I confessed to my wife as soon as I could.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

Unhappy_girl said:


> I have been reading a lot about the affair fog. What are your thoughts on whether it exists if your ws leaves for the ow/om? Can they truly be in a fog or is it just a load of rubbish?


I think it depends a lot on what one means by _"affair fog,"_ as well as on one's personal value system.

From time immemorial, people have observed that men's and women's minds can become _'clouded,'_ their thinking _'muddled,'_ their behavior _'confused,'_ etc., when dealing with so-called affairs of the heart. It's rather hard to conclude, therefore, that there isn't something to the notion that people's perceptions can become distorted in some manner when they are romantically involved, with the result that they make poor decisions and behave badly.

Moreover, science has revealed that much of the way we think and behave is dependent upon the presence and levels of various chemicals in our brains. It seems reasonable, then, that when married people can become infatuated with people other than their spouses, their brain chemistry is altered and, along with it, their thinking and behavior.

But the reason I -- and I suspect a lot of others -- are somewhat uncomfortable with the use of the term _'affair fog'_ is that it is often implied if not stated that those in the fog are somehow powerless to resist temptation and therefore that their behavior should be excused in whole or in part. Personally, I believe that people retain the ability to do what is right despite their emotional state and that therefore those who choose to do wrong should be held accountable. Even if this is not always the case, I believe that in order to function properly society must be structured as if people can make proper choices, so as to influence the behavior of the majority who can. But not everyone agrees with this.

There seems to be a permanent divide between those who wish to hold more-or-less everybody to the same rather strict standard of behavior, and those who believe society should be much more tolerant of those who break the rules. My guess is that, if you are in the first camp, you tend to discount the importance of _'affair fog'_ whereas, if you are in the second, you think it explains why a lot of people cheat.

Based on what I've read over the past three years on TAM and similar help sites, many waywards act as if they are lost in a kind of fog. On the other hand, some do not and even those that do do not all display the same degree of _'fogginess.'_ Thus, as with all other aspects of human behavior, it is hard to determine how much of adulterous behavior is simply the result of the wayward's choice and how much is outside of the wayward's control.

So, in the end, where one comes out on the issue probably depends on whether one believes that people truly have free will and should be held accountable for their actions, or whether one believes that our environment and experiences largely determine our behavior and that therefore people should not be so judgmental.


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## Unhappy_girl (Aug 19, 2015)

Yeah - I kind of get how the feelings of 'being in love' with the affair partner can make your judgement poor. But I was in love with my xh once too, but I didn't act like a completely selfish, cold a**hole to everyone else around me just because I was high on love hormones.

Also I get how in some situations it seems like there had been a 'fog' and the person 'wakes up' and realises what they have done. But I don't see how those that just leave without remorse, sorrow, and without a second glance at their former life can be in a fog. How can they be in a fog if they make such life-changing cold-hearted decisions a reality?

I do feel that the term fog lessens their responsibility for their own actions. These people are still functioning in society and in their professional workplaces.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

It's dreamland. Only seeing the good things because it's not reality. No issues to deal with except avoiding getting caught maybe. The sh*tstorm comes after reality sets in.


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## nursejackie (May 22, 2015)

whatever way it works there is time before the fog totally engulfs the WS- to see what is coming- a bit of a weather forecast- That is when the WS has the opportunity to stop and walk away from what they know full well is coming. They still have an ability to make the right decision.

Have you ever taken an opiate for pain and realized you liked it a bit too much? You can see that if you continue taking it you could be in real trouble--so you make the conscious decision to flush them down the toilet put up with some of the pain and take other measures to get some comfort. 

Some would never go near the opiate in the first place (like most BS here), some will get a taste and shut it down as soon as they realize the danger, some will play the odds- how long can I take this to make me feel better and still get out before any real damage is done….

And of course there are the ones that go "yeeehaw this is just what the dr ordered" take the whole bottle and then shop drs to get more.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

nursejackie said:


> Have you ever taken an opiate for pain and realized you liked it a bit too much? You can see that if you continue taking it you could be in real trouble--so you make the conscious decision to flush them down the toilet put up with some of the pain and take other measures to get some comfort.


Total threadjack:

DON'T flush medication down the toilet! It ends up in the ecosystem doing all kinds of damage. Bring medication back to the pharmacy for proper disposal.


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## Heatherknows (Aug 21, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> I was in an affair fog. I was blissfully unaware that I was having an Emotional Affair until I was about to have unprotected sex with my AP and suddenly the fog was blasted away from my head and I realised I'd become a cheating POS.
> 
> I confessed to my wife as soon as I could.


I never had any real life AP but my cyber boyfriend felt like my "soul mate" and I thought I just married the wrong man. But then I learned all about chemicals from Helen Fisher and realized that new euphoria of affairs cannot compete with difficult long term issues of marriage. It takes mental strength to let go of the "euphoria" and maybe it never leaves completely. IDK.


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## Heatherknows (Aug 21, 2015)

nursejackie said:


> It is easy to live in the fog when there are no bills to pay, no kids to raise, no in laws, no mortgages, no retirement and education to save for, no clothes to wash or pick up, no dinners to make, no house to clean, cars to fix, no nagging, no expectations... no responsibilities…


Well said. It should be printed on a poster and hung up at the next AA meeting (Affair Addiction) for everyone to ponder.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

nursejackie said:


> *Re: Does the fog exist if they leave for the ow?*
> *whatever way it works there is time before the fog totally engulfs the WS- to see what is coming- a bit of a weather forecast-* That is when the WS has the opportunity to stop and walk away from what they know full well is coming. They still have an ability to make the right decision.
> 
> Have you ever taken an opiate for pain and realized you liked it a bit too much? You can see that if you continue taking it you could be in real trouble--so you make the conscious decision to flush them down the toilet put up with some of the pain and take other measures to get some comfort.
> ...


While I agree entirely with the thrust of your comment, I think we must take note of the boiling frog problem.

Based on quite a few WW descriptions of how they ended up in an affair, it would seem that many went from having no particular feelings for the OM to being _'in love'_ with him without ever having a romantic epiphany of some sort.

If anything, this suggests that people (and I would say women, especially) need to be scrupulously careful about their interactions with members of the opposite sex because one's emotions can change slowly and subtly, such that one is in over one's head before even realizing it.


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## blahfridge (Dec 6, 2014)

When I was in the thick of my online EA, I lived for his emails. I would wait for him to post something on the forum on which we were both members, and then check my email repeatedly to see if he had sent a message. I KNEW it was stupid and pathetic, but I was that desperate for some romantic attention. It wasn't until enough time had gone by that I began to see that he was a lot like my husband - a cheater who was also a coward. He didn't really want his wife anymore or love her the way he should, but he also didn't want to blow up his family, so he sought out other women for the thrill of it and out of boredom. Sex was secondary to the rush of seduction and the power of having someone within his thrall. But, I had to get to the place where I could see that for myself. 

I think that's the tragedy of the affair fog - it's not really a fog, because deep down I think most people involved in affairs, if they have any self-awareness at all, know that what they are doing is wrong and destructive. But, they push the thought away because they are addicted to the thrill that the affair gives them. It isn't until the trill starts to fade that they begin to see how pointless the affair is or was. Or, as in my H's case, it becomes to hard to keep it hidden and other life issues move to the forefront. 

Of course, there are some who will swear they are deeply in love with someone they barely know...they are just fools.


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## Heatherknows (Aug 21, 2015)

carmen ohio said:


> many went from having no particular feelings for the OM to being _'in love'_ with him without ever having a romantic epiphany of some sort.
> 
> If anything, this suggests that people (and I would say women, especially) need to be scrupulously *careful* about their interactions with members of the opposite sex because one's emotions can change slowly and subtly, such that one is in over one's head before even realizing it.


This is so true. Also, women need to be very honest with themselves. I KNOW if an attractive man begins flirting with me my body will respond and my mind will try to make sense of it. Flattery works on me. This is why I'm only friends with women. It's just easier.


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## Heatherknows (Aug 21, 2015)

blahfridge said:


> When I was in the thick of my online EA, I lived for his emails. I would wait for him to post something on the forum on which we were both members, and then check my email repeatedly to see if he had sent a message. I KNEW it was stupid and pathetic, but I was that desperate for some romantic attention. .


I could have wrote this myself. Having an online EA is so addictive. We were both on a website that had a group chat room but you could also chat privately. I remember the first private chat it was paired with a noise and I got conditioned to get excited by the flirting that just the noise would make my heart skip. Each time I saw I had a message I got a thrill. It went from being something silly to being something important. I could have ruined my whole life with this behavior if my husband wasn't so forgiving.


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## VeryHurt (Mar 11, 2011)

I most definitely feel the "fog" is a real phenomenon: My STBX and his sec'y discussed and planned to "each divorce their ungrateful spouses who only thought about themselves" and "be together forever" in Fantasyland. Can you imagine they actually talked about this after being "in love" for *ONE* month? At the time, she was married 22 years with two teenagers and we were married 26 years with a teenager. Emotionally immature? Unrealistic? In the smog? In a fog? Someone drank the Kool-Aid!


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Dude007 said:


> It impossible for them " to find the line between fog, justification, lies, bull**** and selfishness" they are as lost as you are and have no idea themselves. It's that mind wrecking
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Probably why I doubt it's existence.


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## Heatherknows (Aug 21, 2015)

Wolf1974 said:


> Probably why I doubt it's existence.


Do you believe in changes in brain chemistry due to events?


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Heatherknows said:


> Do you believe in changes in brain chemistry due to events?


I believe we are a product of the choices we make, not events. Reason being is if events caused outcomes then why don't they cause ALL outcomes.

Example. My X wife took a nose dive after her father, step, died. She blamed this event on why she sought extra attention and cheated "fog". 

But she chose to do it. She had other options. While I didn't know she would cheat it was clear that she was in pain beyond what I could do to love and support her. She chose the path she took. Many experience loss and don't do those things. So it's not the events alone. It's the events plus the choices we make beyond it


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## Heatherknows (Aug 21, 2015)

Wolf1974 said:


> I believe we are a product of the choices we make, not events. Reason being is if events caused outcomes then why don't they cause ALL outcomes.
> 
> Example. My X wife took a nose dive after her father, step, died. She blamed this event on why she sought extra attention and cheated "fog".
> 
> But she chose to do it. She had other options. While I didn't know she would cheat it was clear that she was in pain beyond what I could do to love and support her. She chose the path she took. Many experience loss and don't do those things. So it's not the events alone. It's the events plus the choices we make beyond it


True enough "the fog" isn't an evil spell cast on a victim but it is pointing to the fact that the brain gets a surge of "feel good" chemicals that make a person act differently than usual.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Heatherknows said:


> True enough "the fog" isn't an evil spell cast on a victim but it is pointing to the fact that the brain gets a surge of "feel good" chemicals that make a person act differently than usual.


Or true nature come out. Matter of perspective. I'm reminded of the saying you never truly know your partner until you break up with them

I understand pain of events and loss as I have experienced it. But I didn't use it as an excuse to hurt others. Hurt myself debatable but choose not to take it out on others


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## Heatherknows (Aug 21, 2015)

Wolf1974 said:


> Or true nature come out. Matter of perspective. I'm reminded of the saying you never truly know your partner until you break up with them
> 
> I understand pain of events and loss as I have experienced it. But I didn't use it as an excuse to hurt others. Hurt myself debatable but choose not to take it out on others


For some people the attention of an attractive other is a huge reward and others can look past it. I don't have any problems with denying alcohol since I don't find it all that wonderful. I can have a bottle of wine in my house for months untouched. For me it's not a big deal but for someone who has problems with alcohol every day with a bottle of wine in the house might be a struggle. Maybe sex with a new person isn't as exciting to you as it was to your wife.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Heatherknows said:


> For some people the attention of an attractive other is a huge reward and others can look past it. I don't have any problems with denying alcohol since I don't find it all that wonderful. I can have a bottle of wine in my house for months untouched. For me it's not a big deal but for someone who has problems with alcohol every day with a bottle of wine in the house might be a struggle. Maybe sex with a new person isn't as exciting to you as it was to your wife.


Nope sex is always exciting to me. I am high drive. But I took vows and didn't put myself in situations to cheat

she shouldn't have made vows and promises to the otherwise. 

You just reaffirm my opinion that choice is involved. In your bottle of wine analogy the prudent choice would be not have it in the house. Don't put yourself in that positon. But if you go out to buy it, bring it in the house, you are setting yourself up for failure. Again your choice made that a possibility. You could make a case for the young, naive and those who don't know better, none was her case she was 35 years old and previous cheater.


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Heatherknows said:


> Do you believe in changes in brain chemistry due to events?


I do, and the damage done in most people(females in particular) can be irreversible. The Fws most likely never can be whole emotionally again. It does that much damage unless they are a)a sociopath or b)use alcohol or big pharma in extremes to basically make them numb to emotions(ie a sociopath) DUDE


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## Zanne (Dec 7, 2012)

.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

The fog is at it's worse during the cake eating phase. My fWW worked with the OM all day, then went with him to the gym in his housing complex, then go out for dinner/drinks, then went to hang out in his condo till late at night. She didn't have the responsibilities to be a mom, a wife, do laundry, do dishes, pay bills, etc. She got to "play house" with a single guy and escape her boring life. She was also turning 30 and got to act like her younger self in college. The hardest part was listening to a 5 yr old keep asking "where's mom" when I was reading him a story at bedtime. It still bothers me to think about it. I was working fulltime, taking care of the kid while she was spending time with the OM, doing his laundry, his dishes, HER, and cleaning his place. For the OM, I'm sure he really liked this setup. He basically go to have a smoking hot lady around, without all the baggage. 

I really believe if she had left me and moved in with him, the reality would have been revealed and the fog lifted to the challenges of that arrangement, like step parenting, dealing with her MH issues, budget/bills, etc.


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Zanne said:


> Dude, you often refer to this phenomena whereby a person's brain is physically scarred by cheating and will likely result in dementia. Do you have any studies or a background in psychology to back up this theory?
> 
> For the record, I do not believe "the fog" makes people act without reason.


I've seen it personally, even in my own mother. And yes, I believe IF they actually believed their own BS(Fog) in order to repress shame, guilt, sadness of blowing up their marriage/life, then they can NEVER recover. That is the deal with the devil for those that are not sociopaths or on big pharma/drunks. Am I a psychologist? No, I am licensed CPA and I'll attest to the existence of FOG(internalized bullsheet) because I've seen it in action. Nature will not let you F with your mind that way long term without vast consequences. DUDE


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*IMHO, "the fog" is only an employable, convenient delusion! 

If a wayward is conscious and coherent enough to fall in love with their spouse, the very same mechanism is in place to fall in love with any third party! By exercising that option, you would have problems convincing me that they didn't know damned well what it was that they are doing!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

Amen, Arbitrator.

Usually, "fog" threads are pretty cringe-worthy for me to read. This thread has been pretty reasonable, which is a nice surprise. Probably moreso at SI, the "fog" is considered the all-powerful, mind-altering mental condition that all cheaters are in. Which leads to the excuse machine. Ah, yes, of course he/she cheated, its the fog, after all. TAM isn't nearly as bad as SI concerning this, to this board's credit.

I understand, and agree with, how some affairs and deceptive behavior can release the "feel good" chemicals in the brain, and thus the rush of happy feelings that some posters previously mentioned, i.e. the secrecy of new communication from APs, the thrill of forbidden secret sex with AP, etc. 

However, the "fog" does not mean a WS has no control. It does, mean, however, that both WS and BS have a clever excuse to use in their infidelity experience, whether they intend it as an excuse or not. Its a defense mechanism for both. Another cle. ver term is "lurv" versus "love." Again, more at SI than here. Somehow, lurv isn't real, and part of the fantasy of affairs. A WS doesn't love the AP, the WS "lurvs" them. No, its not lurv, its not fantasy. Its all real. Every brutal part of it. 

Arbitrator is dead on in his post.


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

arbitrator said:


> *IMHO, "the fog" is only an employable, convenient delusion!
> 
> If a wayward is conscious and coherent enough to fall in love with their spouse*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The FOG I refer to in this case is the purposeful DELUSION of ONES SELF to mitigate guilt, shame, etc. That's totally different than "falling in love" with a partner whom you eventually marry. You may be high on brain chemicals but you are not trying to twist reality to engage in an activity you KNOW is wrong. Remember these multiple relationships are existing at the same time, which is not a natural state for females(generally). So they must demonize, exaggerate, justify, re-write history, etc. THAT IS WHEN THE DAMAGE IS BEING DONE TO THE MIND. This should be a rather easy concept to grasp the mind wrecking effects of such an exercise. DUDE


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Simply put, "the fog" is little more than a psychological aura that a wayward will often consciously adhere to in order to make themselves look and feel better about what it is that they are covertly doing to their victimized spouse, as well as any other affected victims ~ in essence, a "justification," so to speak!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Yep and it comes at a grave cost(dementia and the like) dude
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

Heatherknows said:


> This is so true. Also, women need to be very honest with themselves. I KNOW if an attractive man begins flirting with me my body will respond and my mind will try to make sense of it. Flattery works on me. This is why I'm only friends with women. It's just easier.


Men are equally susceptible to flirting and flattery and therefore, if they are married, would also be well advised to limit their interactions with women.

I think the difference is that the prospect of having sex is a subtext for virtually all men when they strike up a friendship with a woman, whereas many woman only open up to the possibility of sex after an emotional attachment has formed. This means that, on average, woman are more vulnerable to being lured into affairs because, on average, men are more likely to be sexual predators.

This dynamic -- that men chase and women allow themselves to be caught -- is as old as the human race and explains why, in more traditional societies, behavioral norms, customs and even laws were established to limit the interaction of men and women, and especially of married men and women.

In the western world, we look down upon such societies, consider them backward and pretend that, by dint of our better education and material wealth, society no longer need regulate human sexual behavior. But one has only to look at the state of marriage and of families in the developed world to see that we are only kidding ourselves. In fact, the more we _'liberate'_ ourselves from our own traditions, the less chance our children have of knowing the joy of a committed, lifelong male-female relationship.

As the many sad stories on TAM/CWI demonstrate, sexual freedom, _'free love'_ as we used to call it, comes at a very high cost.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Unhappy_girl said:


> I have been reading a lot about the affair fog. What are your thoughts on whether it exists if your ws leaves for the ow/om? Can they truly be in a fog or is it just a load of rubbish?


You want to know what the fog is? 

The BS's belief that the WS thought anything more of them than a nice guy/girl security blanket. The WS makes a covert contract to trade the illusion of love for convenience and the BS never gets to read the fine print. 

"Subject to change without notice."


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## Heatherknows (Aug 21, 2015)

carmen ohio said:


> Men are equally susceptible to flirting and flattery and therefore, if they are married, would also be well advised to limit their interactions with women.
> 
> I think the difference is that the prospect of having sex is a subtext for virtually all men when they strike up a friendship with a woman, whereas many woman only open up to the possibility of sex after an emotional attachment has formed. This means that, on average, woman are more vulnerable to being lured into affairs because, on average, men are more likely to be sexual predators.
> 
> ...


You are so right. This is why I also watch what I dress and watch if I'm giving a man too much eye contact. I don't want to give out sexual cues. In real life I almost never speak with men except briefly. It's online that I was able to engage in long conversations. The problems happened once pictures were shown. TBH I even had my pictures posted here and then realized no good could come of it so I took them down. Nobody needs to know what I look like and I don't need to know what anyone here looks like.


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

BetrayedDad said:


> You want to know what the fog is?
> 
> The BS's belief that the WS thought anything more of them than a nice guy/girl security blanket. The WS makes a covert contract to trade the illusion of love for convenience and the BS never gets to read the fine print.
> 
> "Subject to change without notice."


Life is subject to change without notice....The secret is that the strongest are not the ones who survive, its those most adaptable to change...DUDE


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Heatherknows said:


> and I don't need to know what anyone here looks like.


I'm hot for the record...DUDE


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

My stupid drunken revenge affair started because I found -through a hobby group- someone who I could talk to, who listened to me and who actually valued what I said.

And who also liked Star Trek Voyager, which my wife hated with a passion.

Ironically, self-analysis led me to realise (I understand the irony, here) I had, subconsciously, wanted to be with someone who hadn't cheated on me.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

You know how small children, when they choose to do something wrong, can absolutely convince themselves that someone else did it?

Same deal, only bigger. Immaturity. Selfishness.

It's not a fog. It's just willful ignoring of the consequences of doing something they know is wrong, both the consequences to themselves and any damage they might cause. Same thing as a criminal doing whatever they feel like doing when they are confident they won't get caught.

It doesn't help that society doesn't really mete out punishment for adultery.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> You know how small children, when they choose to do something wrong, can absolutely convince themselves that someone else did it?
> 
> Same deal, only bigger. Immaturity. Selfishness.
> 
> ...


I had convinced myself I was doing nothing wrong. 

What could be wrong with having a chat with a friend over a few drinks?

Everything, as it happened.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

I always thought the fog was called that simply because it prevents the person who is in one from seeing around them with clarity?

There are many reasons one could be in a fog, naivety, limerance for someone else, selfishness, rebellion, self destruction, inadvertently because of the actions of someone else.

The point of talking about the fog is to understand that the person who is in it can't see things with the same clarity as those not in it, to realize that the person in the fog is going to continue to make seemingly illogical decisions until they ever regain clarity.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Lon said:


> The point of talking about the fog is to understand that the person who is in it can't see things with the same clarity as those not in it, to realize that the person in the fog is going to continue to make seemingly illogical decisions until they ever regain clarity.


I still don't like the word fog. It makes it sound like an outside thing that the person in it has no control over. When really, they CAUSED the fog in the first place. They had all the clarity in the world at one point to avoid being in it, and chose to do that anyway.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> *By Unhappy-girl*
> Does the fog exist if they leave for the ow?


If they leave for the OW, the fog, whatever that is, will no longer exist if the following has occurred:

1	The BS was a good spouse

2	The WS has a good conscience and some decent morals

3	The WS lives with the OW for several years, sometimes only several months or shorter.

*Unhappy-girl, does any f those exist in your case?*

I think that if the three things above are true then it is almost certain that the “fog” will no longer exist.
However, even if all three do not happen then I think number 3 all by itself can bring the fog to a shocking realization.



The problem with the fog is that a person that allows themselves to get into the fog thinks that they can live in fantasyland in Disneyworld for life. Then they come home and find that they spent all their money for a few weeks-months at Disneyworld and now they have no money to pay for their home or anything else. They try to go back and live in Disneyworld and find that Disneyworld does not want you because you have spent what you had on a delusion and now you are broke. You gave all you had to try and live in a delusion that you allowed and now you are broke and have to beg for a second chance.


Nursejackie gave you a great list of how to cop out and “live in the fog” (see reprint of Nursejackie’s post below).



> *By nursejackie*
> It is easy to live in the fog when there are no bills to pay, no kids to raise, no in laws, no mortgages, no retirement and education to save for, no clothes to wash or pick up, no dinners to make, no house to clean, cars to fix, no nagging, no expectations... no responsibilities…
> 
> Real life and real love is different - It stands the test of time, it overcomes the obstacles, it moves on when it can. ( I get that it isn't possible for everyone to move on


)


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

As others have stated, the fog is an escape from reality. As long as a cake-eating situation exist (ie still married while seeing the AP), the fog is heavy. Everything is great! But once the D happens and the M to the AP, the fog dissipates to the realities of life.


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## Unhappy_girl (Aug 19, 2015)

1 The BS was a good spouse 
2	The WS has a good conscience and some decent morals 
3	The WS lives with the OW for several years, sometimes only several months or shorter.

Hi mr blunt,

I am the bs and I would say I was a good spouse. The ws used to have a good conscience ( but not now)
He hasn't started living with ow as yet although sees her and her kids with my children every time.

Thanks everyone for the different view points and discussion.

Ug x


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> I still don't like the word fog. It makes it sound like an outside thing that the person in it has no control over. When really, they CAUSED the fog in the first place. They had all the clarity in the world at one point to avoid being in it, and chose to do that anyway.


But with me it was *exactly* as if my head was filled with fog. 

My wife was convinced I was having an affair (with a friend of hers, ugh, very crass of me) but I knew I wasn't!

Until I realised I was. And then the fog was instantly blasted out of my head, I looked at myself and realised I'd become a POS. And that was a tough realisation.


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