# Was there a final straw?



## hehasmyheart

Was it one thing that sealed the deal for you to get a divorce, or was it years of contemplating and suddenly you couldn't go on anymore?

I find it interesting how every divorced person I know did it pretty quickly. They weren't going to give it another chance, their minds were made up, done. Then, there are those of us (including myself), that should have divorced years ago, but instead coast through. I'll bet this is a personality thing on some level. There are 3 traits that keep keep me stagnant. The not-so-good ones are procrastination and laziness. The good one (well, good for him that is) is selflessness. He's only taken advantage of this. 

I've waited too long. He's very self-centered. We are now filing bankruptcy (well, we have a consultation tomorrow) because of his entitlement to whatever new toy/gadget he wants. There is $50,000. in debt, and I keep thinking if I had respected myself enough to leave long ago, I could have this much saved in the bank instead of in credit debt.

I'm finally thinking enough is enough. I just wonder if I'll find the motivation and strength to act.


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## ankh

Congratulations on finally waking up! I wish you well with this.


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## TrustIsGone

It was a little of both: the mixture of years of contemplation and a final straw. For years my husband and I have been falling down a slippery slope, toward separation... the final straw was this last EA and the fact that my "trying" to justify staying AGAIN, is physically making me ill. I cannot live like this.

I wish you much luck in your situation.


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## 36Separated

As omeone of the receiving end of the divorce i dont want. In our marriage there have been very minor issues over the years, until last year i got ill with depression following my mum dieing, i started to drink and this pushed us apart. She left to give us a break but after arguing i change the door lock - that pushed her into the divorce. i've now had councilling and im fully better and have fixed all the issues i had, I've given her a key to the house and told her I want her to move home, ill move out and ill sign the house over to her. We now get on fine as friends and with the kids and she tells me she sees ive changed and ideally we would be back together but to much has happend.
I take full account for what i have done and ive put everything right since.
Given what i said, and we have 3 kids is she right to cont the divorce or would you of given it another chance.

I ask all this as I do understand i drove her out, but I stuck in a place where i blame her for not trying to solve seeing all the issues have been fixed. Part of me doesnt blame her for what she id doing, but then part of me says we got married for life through sickness and i have come through the illness

Any thoughts??? Be honest


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## EnjoliWoman

It was a 3-stage final straw. 3 years prior to D-day on a family vacation, ex threw a tantrum including insulting my family who left. In private my SIL (his brother's wife) asked if he ever hit me. I'd kept it from everyone who knew me but her being able to see it made me break down. I finally acknowledged that this wasn't OK, I didn't deserve this and I had to get out. 

Over 3 years I asked him to control his temper and tried to assert myself and it always ended ugly. He wanted no MC, saying they were for crazy people and he didn't need to be fixed, just needed to control his temper and for me to stop being stupid.

Two weeks prior to D-day I had consulted an attorney, gotten my own private cell phone, packed a bag and hid it, and opened my own checking account with $500 from my parents. He had wanted sex that morning, waiting until I was dressed and nearly ready for work and when I said no, he threw a fit, saying lots of women would want him and if he didn't get it at home, he'd get it somewhere. I told him to go ahead and that I wanted a divorce. (We had sex at LEAST 5x a week so this wasn't because he didn't get it enough.)

D-Day - In my parking deck I went to add something to my legal file but when I looked under my car seat and saw my legal file and the book "The verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans were gone. My heart was in my throat all the way home. I got home from work and ex was in the garage completely sweaty and acting weird. He said he was going to get a shower. He passed our 4y/o on the stairs looking confused with her toothbrush and toothpaste in her hand. I changed out of my suit as he was getting in the shower and once I knew he was in there for sure I went back and saw he had a black trashbag in the back of his SUV full of our daughter's clothes. Like everything she had. I tossed it in my car and asked my daughter if she wanted McDonald's for dinner and she said yes. We got in the car and left.

I got her dinner and found a safe place in the back of a shopping center to start making phone calls to parents and friends, warning them he would be looking for me and that I was safe. About halfway through my cell stopped working - he had cancelled the service. I fished the new one out of the console of my car that he didn't know I had. I called the battered women's shelter and they gave me the address. 

I drove there and told my daughter that it was a very inexpensive hotel, that I couldn't afford much, so we would have to make our own beds, etc. that it was like a hostel and described that in kid terms. To this day she doesn't know where we were that I know of. The next day I got a restraining order, 2 days after that the deputy's met me at the marital home to pack clothes and toiletries.

9 years later I wish I hadn't waited - I should have left after the first year.


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## EnjoliWoman

36Separated said:


> As omeone of the receiving end of the divorce i dont want. In our marriage there have been very minor issues over the years, until last year i got ill with depression following my mum dieing, i started to drink and this pushed us apart. She left to give us a break but after arguing i change the door lock - that pushed her into the divorce. i've now had councilling and im fully better and have fixed all the issues i had, I've given her a key to the house and told her I want her to move home, ill move out and ill sign the house over to her. We now get on fine as friends and with the kids and she tells me she sees ive changed and ideally we would be back together but to much has happend.
> I take full account for what i have done and ive put everything right since.
> Given what i said, and we have 3 kids is she right to cont the divorce or would you of given it another chance.
> 
> I ask all this as I do understand i drove her out, but I stuck in a place where i blame her for not trying to solve seeing all the issues have been fixed. Part of me doesnt blame her for what she id doing, but then part of me says we got married for life through sickness and i have come through the illness
> 
> Any thoughts??? Be honest


You blame her for not fixing YOUR issues? I'm sure from her perspective she gave you lots of time to get over the death of your mother. Maybe she saw a side of you she can't get past. She may be resentful that you 'left' into your own head and misery, leaving her to run everything and care for the kids? 

You really need to ask HER and talk to her, explaining you still love her and are in a better place and would welcome a chance to prove this isn't a temporary recovery.


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## 36Separated

EnjoliWoman said:


> You blame her for not fixing YOUR issues? I'm sure from her perspective she gave you lots of time to get over the death of your mother. Maybe she saw a side of you she can't get past. She may be resentful that you 'left' into your own head and misery, leaving her to run everything and care for the kids?
> 
> You really need to ask HER and talk to her, explaining you still love her and are in a better place and would welcome a chance to prove this isn't a temporary recovery.


She never said a thing till she left, then she said it was too l8


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## EnjoliWoman

36Separated said:


> She never said a thing till she left, then she said it was too l8


But you had realized there were issues, tho? Because you sought to fix them/the drinking. 

Sounds like you two never really communicated - you treated the death and the drinking and unhappiness like the elephant in the room that no one would acknowledge.

IMO it's too late. Take this as a lesson that a marriage is a partnership and you should have leaned on her, not booze, and explained your pain and difficulty. You could have gone to grief counseling together. It seems like you pushed her aside to wallow in pain (no shame - death is hard) and she got tired of waiting for you to come out of the fog.

Yes, she could have done something, but just because you finally fixed you doesn't make you blameless - it's on both of you. If she doesn't see the marriage as fixable any more it doesn't matter if you do. It takes two and she's already made up her mind.

You can talk to her about it or ask to go to MC together and give it another go. But you can't do it with blame in your heart.


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## 36Separated

I have realised my part in it all - but at the time i didnt see it - ive spoken to counsollers n my gp and this was cos i was ill. I am fine now, but she wont try. I have told her it was my fault but i was ill

She is throwing away 13years n our 3 childrens future because i got ill - i know it was my fault, i have explained that,but why wont she try??


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## Paradise

I'm going to restrain myself here. 36, I feel for you. I went through a depression as well during my marriage and it was hell. The lack of communication was on both of us and the depression set in for reasons I'm not willing to go through in detail....But, what I've learned over the past two years is that I had my share of the blame during that period and I do not blame her for being upset with me for some of my behaviors, but at the same time I also recognize why I was feeling the way I was now that I am able to get away from it. You will see these things as well. 

Point is, you are chasing the bunnies right now just as I did trying to figure it all out. It will come to you bit by bit. I was at fault, so was my ex. At least yours didn't have a year long affair and blame you for everything as it was happening. 

The best thing you can do is not to blame either one of you. Fix what you need to fix (and a big congrats on doing so) and move forward. I know a ton of couples who are together who weathered the storm early in their marriage and are now completely in love. Then again, half of the people who marry decide not to do so and pack up and leave for whatever reason. I'm not talking about those who are abused. They should get the he!! out of the house.


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## vi_bride04

Final straw - catching him going to lunch with an opposite sex co-worker, lying to me about it and deleting chat logs. After a full blown 9+month PA 5 years ago, I wasn't going down the infidelity road again. Especially after he maintained they were "just friends" and whatever other justifications/blameshifting he was doing.


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## EnjoliWoman

36Separated said:


> I have realised my part in it all - but at the time i didnt see it - ive spoken to counsollers n my gp and this was cos i was ill. I am fine now, but she wont try. I have told her it was my fault but i was ill
> 
> She is throwing away 13years n our 3 children's future because i got ill - i know it was my fault, i have explained that,but why wont she try??


She isn't throwing away your children's futures. As to throwing away 13 years, if she sees no value in those 13 years then she won't see it as throwing them away, she will see them as wasted.


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## thunderstruck

36Separated said:


> Given what i said, and we have 3 kids is she right to cont the divorce or would you of given it another chance.
> 
> Any thoughts??? Be honest


Is she right? That doesn't really matter. It's how she feels, and you can't change that. Yes, I would give my spouse another chance in the sitch you described, but I'm not your spouse. 

She's probably gone, and you can't do a thing about it. You need to work on your issues, and become the man you want to be. You also need to see a lawyer ASAP to learn your rights. Sorry, it sucks, but you can make it through this.


EnjoliWoman said:


> She isn't throwing away your children's futures. As to throwing away 13 years, if she sees no value in those 13 years then she won't see it as throwing them away, she will see them as wasted.


Ouch, that's brutal...but it's true.


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## EnjoliWoman

He asked for honesty. Plus that might be the brutal honesty he needs to see her side and start moving on.

Personally I almost view my years that way. I got a daughter, lots of personal growth and a good bit of general life knowledge out of it. Those are the only things that keep it from being a complete waste but it's pretty close to it.


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## Jellybeans

There are little moments lookin back now that I think, Oh yeah....

One time we were having dinner and he started yelling at me (in the restaurant) and then being very curt and rude and I just looked at him at this was happening and I thought "I don't want to do this anymore." I had no reaction to him at the point cause I was so done w/ caring like I did before.

There was another time, long before anything that he made a cmment to his brother, "If Jelly and I ever divorce" --it was totally offhand and not about anything anyone was talking about.. ... and I looked at him and thought "Why would he say that?" I always remember that and never forget that comment. 

There are usually a lot of little things along the way that lead to the Big D.


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## Paradise

EnjoliWoman said:


> He asked for honesty. Plus that might be the brutal honesty he needs to see her side and start moving on.


Yep, two sides to every story. Including the ones that we share on here. I have a feeling that right now 36 is taking more than his share of the blame as I did towards the end of my marriage. But, after doing some serious soul searching I realized that my ex contributed just as much to the demise of our relationship as I did. Just as everyone in this forum did their share to contribute to the demise of their relationships.


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## EnjoliWoman

Absolutely. I know where I contributed and I've learned to set boundaries. I taught my ex how to treat me so of course after 12 years he was surprised that I started standing up for myself. I know how he views things because we've talked about it. We don't agree but I know his perspective.


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## dumpedandhappy

The Final Straw: she asked me to be honest and so I told her everything. 

If I had lied I may not even be here today. 

I was wrong. I failed her and myself. I knew that if I told her the truth that she may ask for D, which she did. But I couldn't hurt her anymore. I couldn't live with the guilt any longer. 

As it stands now, I realize it on the "other-side" that our marriage was troubled for many years. 

But the final straw was my confession in my point of view. I am glad I told her everything. She deserved the truth. I am sorry I hurt her. I am sorry it led to D. 

But, I have a new life and as my EX told my Mom, we will both be happier for it. 

I know that I am.


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## 36Separated

Thanks for the replies - they help. I know im only seeing it form my side, but is it really possible to see the 13years as wasted, when we used to have such a good marriage and we have had 3 children?


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## dumpedandhappy

36Separated said:


> Thanks for the replies - they help. I know im only seeing it form my side, but is it really possible to see the 13years as wasted, when we used to have such a good marriage and we have had 3 children?


You asked, so let me ask you, "Did you give it your best?"

If so, then why sweat it now? Life is hard, harder than you could imagine for those not in the "first world"....

So, therefore, you met someone, fell in love, got married, DID YOUR BEST, had kids ( who are great..right?) and then ...ooops...marriage ended....

If your integrity is intact, if you can rise above it all and say, "I know that I tried." then it's NOT a waste...

Those that "waste" life should be ashamed, the sloth amongst us. 

But you sound like you tried and achieved things along the way...3 kids is an achievement by any measure!!

So .. NOPE. Not wasted. 

Third World people are looking at your First World problem of divorce and scoffing at you...as they try to find peace, aid or relief from tyranny, destruction and disease.


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## Paradise

I think most of us would agree that our ideas and opinions on marriage and relationships changed drastically after the divorce. I look at marriage completely different now than I did before and highly doubt I will go down that road again. While I want it (marriage and lots of kids) I just don't think it is something that I am willing to do anymore. The fear of going through divorce again far outweighs my desire to have the perfect little family unit.


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## dumpedandhappy

Paradise said:


> I think most of us would agree that our ideas and opinions on marriage and relationships changed drastically after the divorce. I look at marriage completely different now than I did before and highly doubt I will go down that road again. While I want it (marriage and lots of kids) I just don't think it is something that I am willing to do anymore. The fear of going through divorce again far outweighs my desire to have the perfect little family unit.


Fear?
Fear is what powers the dark side of the force, young Jedi!

“There is only one thing that makes a dream impossible to achieve: the fear of failure.”

Dare to dream, fear not...


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## diwali123

It was going downhill for years: I asked him to leave and planned on divorce. He was emotionally abusive and a pothead, was very selfish, manipulative, passive aggressive, treated me like I was an idiot, didn't care about my feelings or thoughts, completely emotionally abandoned me after our daughter was born. 
He was supposedly devastated during the separation and I know he had people coaching him on all the right things to say which were all complete crap. I took him back because I felt guilty and because he made so many promises to change and get help. 
He came back and almost immediately started breaking his promises, refused to see a psychiatrist like he had promised, gave me the silent treatment, put his friends and put ahead of me and our baby. 
He would come home after work and our d would attack him with love and he would get mad at me for not letting him have time alone. I would ask him when he got home of he wanted to be alone and he would say no. 
He started not coming home (again) and would say he was in a traffic jam or had to work late. I told him I needed to talk to him and asked if he was having an affair, he kept insisting he wasn't lying and I finally got it out of him he was going to friends' houses after work to smoke pot. I just told him I was going to spend the weekend at my mom's and think about what I wanted to do. He started threatening to destroy my stuff (again). 
When I got back we had a MC session in which I told him it was over.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BeachGuy

For me it was after a separation, reconciliation and a lot of work on my part. For almost a year I was the man she wanted me to be, nothing but 100% for her. But on my birthday that year I realized she was still the same and was never going to change or put any effort in to our marriage. By chance we were alone (kids gone), for several months I had been wooing her and all happy I was going to keep my family together.

We woke up on the morning of my birthday and I tried to get something started. She sort of patted me on my leg and said "happy birthday" and that was it.

I knew right then at that moment there was no use. Either I live with things like this forever or make plans to get out. I haven't done it yet but plan to in January.


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## EnjoliWoman

dumpedandhappy said:


> Those that "waste" life should be ashamed, the sloth amongst us.


I am ashamed. I could have done better/more, with my life. I allowed someone to take my dignity, confidence and self-respect for 10 years. How not cool is THAT?

I don't see myself as sloth, but rather as something that was fearful by nature.

I learned a lot from it and that part isn't a waste but over all, yep, he was a waste of my time, youth and admiration. Once admiration faded I should have left with my youth intact. Not that 35 was old but, oh, the things I could have done with 10 years.


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## vi_bride04

EnjoliWoman said:


> I am ashamed. I could have done better/more, with my life. I allowed someone to take my dignity, confidence and self-respect for 10 years. How not cool is THAT?
> 
> I don't see myself as sloth, but rather as something that was fearful by nature.
> 
> I learned a lot from it and that part isn't a waste but over all, yep, he was a waste of my time, youth and admiration. Once admiration faded I should have left with my youth intact. Not that 35 was old but, oh, the things I could have done with 10 years.


Holy crap you couldn't have said it better....

I'm 32 but had so many dreams and was staring to put my plan in play to achieve them when i met stbx...

10 years...gone. I'm ashamed i put myself to the side to make someone happy...and not only that, but it was a toxic relationship for both of us.

so much pain inflicted ON PURPOSE from both of us....

It was just unnecessary....

But...i do know i will never put myself in another situation like that. I am who i am now b/c of the sh!t and i feel a little wiser, kinder, and not so critical. And I'm gonna be me. If someone doesn't like it or thinks my core values/beliefs are crap, well guess they don't need to be a part of my life.

I'm gonna be loved for me...all of me...my past included


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## 36Separated

dumpedandhappy said:


> You asked, so let me ask you, "Did you give it your best?"
> 
> If so, then why sweat it now? Life is hard, harder than you could imagine for those not in the "first world"....
> 
> So, therefore, you met someone, fell in love, got married, DID YOUR BEST, had kids ( who are great..right?) and then ...ooops...marriage ended....
> 
> If your integrity is intact, if you can rise above it all and say, "I know that I tried." then it's NOT a waste...
> 
> Those that "waste" life should be ashamed, the sloth amongst us.
> 
> But you sound like you tried and achieved things along the way...3 kids is an achievement by any measure!!
> 
> So .. NOPE. Not wasted.
> 
> Third World people are looking at your First World problem of divorce and scoffing at you...as they try to find peace, aid or relief from tyranny, destruction and disease.



The problem is i didnt give it my best - I only realised this when she left and have been left with the guilt of not doing enough.


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## dumpedandhappy

If you didn't do your best, if you feel guilt now for that, then there is only one thing left to do. Learn from your mistakes. Why didn't you do your best? What were the main things that lead to your decisions at the time? Was it just being selfish or were there other factors? If there are things you need to examine, take the time, talk to somebody, improve yourself by knowing the why's and make a true effort to do your best always, in everything you do moving forward.

If by chance you get an oppurtunity to try again, then the next time around you should be wiser and able to do your best.

Regrets should fade with the efforts to improve oneself. Or they will remain to serve as the basis for any future relationships you will enter into properly. 

Hey. You made a mistake. Humans do that. Look around you, mistakes is what has created most people and things that exist in our culture. It's life. Your only a failure if you don't learn from it all.


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## 36Separated

I've learnt from my mistakes, ive spent 4 months goin over them all. I know im a better person for it all , the stupid thing is knowing and feeling what i do now i would make the marriage great, the prob is its too l8


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## dumpedandhappy

Well sounds like you are doing well then; there is a famous poem, within it Tennyson muses:

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all. 

Take heart in the fact that there are those out there that have never known that which you have had, some that never will, but it seems to me that with your observations put here on TAM that you will in fact have it again. 

Out there waiting for you is a woman to whom you can now provide for, her happiness will stem from the values you have learned by virtue of your self-discovery. 

Time to let the past be the past. And let the future begin.


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## 36Separated

Thank you


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## office girlie

My final straw was finding a text in his phone with the OW. I has known he was cheating but he would always deny it. He cheated on me for years and was verbally abusive as they come and then wondered why he wasn't getting none. (A poet I am today) I really began to hate him and was really surprised at my own grief after he left. I think it was really my pride that was/Is still hurting. We were married 14 years. If I could just stop dreaming bout his sorry but I would b doing much better .


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

Dream about his sorry butt being kicked by EVERY woman he treated badly (because you KNOW you weren't the ONLY one).


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## WasDecimated

Well, my final straw was not at after DD#1, DD#2, or even DD#3...as it should have been. It was after being in R (false R) for over a year, doing everything I possibly could to save what was left of our marriage. I was trying to talk to her one day when she responded with "I still don't know what I want"…really? This made me realize that I had wasted over a year of my life staying with her while she was still ambivalent about us. Talk about wasted time and effort! I also believe that she was still in contact with her POSOM. 

I realized at that point that I was sick of being lied to, disrespected, and used as a doormat. I decided that it was time to file for D.


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## Houstondad

Final straw? It's funny how we're all a little different with the final straw. So was it when:
I first learned my EX cheated on me? No. 
Was it when my EX broke NC after 1 week telling me she can't stop thinking about OM? No.
When my EX left on a plane to spend New Years with the OM while I was with my kids? No.
Getting back with the OM (after he dumped her to work on his marriage) one final time to only learn he changed his mind after 1 night in the hotel? No.
Deciding to "work on herself" during the summer and living with her cousin in another state? No.
Telling me she changed her mind after returning home after the summer "self discovery" and that she was moving back to cousin to find work? No.
I got bad advice from MC and a person close to me that I trusted during this time. But I had the belief she would get out of the fog eventually and truly work on our 11 year marriage. And I had attachment/ co-dependecy issues too.
Anyways, here it is: she returned 6 weeks later to visit the kids and she leaves her phone behind at my home. I take it to deliver to her and the phone buzzes with 2 texts: it was the OM; the other was a dating site. Ding-ding ya dummy!!! Haha. Yeah, that was the final straw. 
Looking back on it, I had a f-cking haystack sitting on my conscience. Haha!


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## Freak On a Leash

EnjoliWoman said:


> I got her dinner and found a safe place in the back of a shopping center to start making phone calls to parents and friends, warning them he would be looking for me and that I was safe. About halfway through my cell stopped working - he had cancelled the service. I fished the new one out of the console of my car that he didn't know I had.


Smart! :smthumbup: My husband did the same thing. He emptied our bank account and when I found out he cancelled me and my daughter's cell phone, but not his own. I packed up my daughter and went over to Sprint and got my own cell phone. He also tried disconnecting our cable (and computer service) and the other utilities, but they were ALL in MY name. So my daughter and I went and changed all the passwords for all our accounts AND I cancelled the insurance on his car, which was also in my name. 

A week later I got a new apartment and informed him (he'd already moved out to his father's house already) that he needed to get packed up by the end of the month because I'd gotten a new place to live and we'd no longer be living in the house we'd rented. He looked shocked. I guess he never knew I had it in me. He also never knew that I had been saving money for years in a separate account.


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## Freak On a Leash

I'm at the final straw now. Here's my thread on it:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/life-after-divorce/62612-after-2-years-its-finally-going-happen.html

Things might get nastier. Today I went over and he told me he wasn't giving me any money to buy my son clothes and food because he doesn't have any. He showed me his bank account which showed that has all of $1800 in it and said he'd spent all of his inheritance. Yet when I asked him about selling his boat he insisted that he would be keeping it, despite the fact that it's costing him over $500/month in loans and insurance. 

I told him he IS going to pay the child support or ELSE. He said again that he has no money. He finally handed me around $75 in cash and said that was all he had. He only gave me that because he needed me to pick up his medication. That basically paid for my son's winter coat and boots, no other clothes..and he needs EVERYTHING since my husband has bought him practically nothing. My husband gave my son a bunch of old hand-me-downs that were sitting around his dead father's house! 

Well, I checked on my bank accounts and saw he'd cashed a few checks recently that I'd paid him for our daughter's car insurance (it's in his name since he bought the car) and sure enough the account numbers are different, so he obviously has more than one account and is lying. 

So I'm rethinking a legal separation and it might not even be an amicable divorce. If he thinks he can just walk away from his kids and responsibilities, he should think again. 

But my mind is made up in any case. Up to this point I was content to hope and trust that he would do right, if not by me, then by the kids. Now it seems even they aren't important and he's looking to throw everything at me. Not going to happen. 

I'm a person who doesn't like change. I like status quo but when I decide a change is in order than things happen quickly. I'm at that point now. I want a divorce. 

I want to be rid of him, his drinking, his antics, his lies and all the stress and drama that he brings to me and my kids lives. I want to get on with my life and give my kids a chance to live a normal life free from this crap.


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## brokenbythis

Decimated said:


> Well, my final straw was not at after DD#1, DD#2, or even DD#3...as it should have been. It was after being in R (false R) for over a year, doing everything I possibly could to save what was left of our marriage. I was trying to talk to her one day when she responded with "I still don't know what I want"…really? This made me realize that I had wasted over a year of my life staying with her while she was still ambivalent about us. Talk about wasted time and effort! I also believe that she was still in contact with her POSOM.
> 
> I realized at that point that I was sick of being lied to, disrespected, and used as a doormat. I decided that it was time to file for D.


I am at this stage right now. Just in the last few days.


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## pandorabox

I had final straw.

For years I tried to fix the marriage with no luck. Then we agreed on in house separation. I wanted him out but I knew there was not enough money around with mortgage and 3 kids and he would really struggle would he rent his own place. I dragged it and dragged it always worrying he won't be able to take care of himself on his own. Till...


He decided that instead of paying his tax debts he will go bankrupt, move out for a while to keep tax department away from me and informed that for a while he will not be able to contribute any money.

That final straw hit me like a final hammer - I worried about him for so long and he leaves me with mortgage and kids to dress and feed ? And he doesn't worry I can lose the house and end up on the street? Just because he can not work harder for 1 year?

I cried through half of the night not for my lost marriage but for my stupidity. Next few hours I was on the phone with friends who pretty much told me to suck it up and get my shi%%t together.

In the morning I started organizing paperwork - in the evening I told H it's a D day.

It feels great.


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## Freak On a Leash

pandorabox said:


> I had final straw.
> 
> I dragged it and dragged it always worrying he won't be able to take care of himself on his own. Till...
> 
> 
> He decided that instead of paying his tax debts he will go bankrupt, move out for a while to keep tax department away from me and informed that for a while he will not be able to contribute any money.
> 
> That final straw hit me like a final hammer - I worried about him for so long and he leaves me with mortgage and kids to dress and feed ? And he doesn't worry I can lose the house and end up on the street? Just because he can not work harder for 1 year?In the morning I started organizing paperwork - in the evening I told H it's a D day.
> 
> It feels great.


Welcome to my world. My H pretty much has done the same thing. I'm filing today. Going over now to make copies of the paperwork before heading over to the courthouse. It does feel better when you finally say "enough", make the decision and forge ahead. 

Good luck. :smthumbup:


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## Dreald

I was married to my ex-wife for 14 months. We unfortunately dated only 5 months before we were married. At the time she seemed like a great person but later I realized it was all a charade. 

Everything she did "for" me, it benefited her as well. All the things I did for her, she expected me to do. When I asked for assistance the few times I did, more often than not, was rejected.

Our final straw occurred during a argument. She physically assaulted me and I threw a cup of water at her when she tried to attack me again. All the while shoving and pushing me to get me to hit her which I wouldn't do. 

She ran upstairs, called the cops and said that she was in fear of her life because I had guns in the house and had assaulted her. Never once did I threaten her and apart from throwing water on her, never touched her. 

They came, took both of our statements and I went to my brother's house to stay that night. The next day I went down to the bank and removed all of my pre-marital assets. Later when she tried to reconcile (never did apologize for over-reacting), she said that if I didn't put all of my money back into a joint bank account, we were through. 

It cost me a bundle (over $50k) for 14 months....do I regret getting divorced? Absolutely not. Do I regret the quick decision I made? Completely. Have I learned from my mistake? Yep! Will I be more cautious the next time I enter a relationship? For sure.


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## zillard

For me there was a final straw. All the following happened in 2 months.

Not when she locked me out the house all night directly after make up sex (making up over a stupid argument).
Not when she spent the night at another mans house the next night.
Not when she told me ILYBNILWY the next day.
Not when she broke her promise to never stay at her "friends" place again.
Not when she told me she has to be drunk to want me.
Not when she told me she wanted to date during separation.
Not when I discovered the affair with OM.
Not when she repeatedly lied and denied affair. 
Not when I discovered another EA happened a year ago.
Not when she refused to go back to MC after 1 session.
Not when she admitted to "just kissing" OM. 
Not when she refused to be completely open with me, even though I told her I knew everything.
Not when she refused to cut off contact with OM, even though he was pulling away.
Not when she begged OM to come back and told me she would never beg for me to. 
Not when she agreed to let me take DD out of state if we split.

The last straw for me was while seeing DD off to school she said, "Goodbye, my little 2nd grader". 

DD is in 1st grade. 

And I AM moving out of state with her as soon as D is final and I sell the house. Custody agreement is already signed.

There is still a minute chance that she could change my mind. But it would have to be something drastic on her part. And I'm not waiting for it to happen. 

Now, if you asked her the same question she would say she's been unhappy for years. Funny how she only thought that once her affair started though.


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## pandorabox

You must be a very patient man zillard?


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## zillard

pandorabox said:


> You must be a very patient man zillard?


Way too patient, I'm quickly learning. And naive, insecure and co-dependent. I always thought patience was a virtue, but now I see that too much of it just turns you into a doormat.

No more. I do deserve better. I am a good father and a good man. And I was a good husband. I did love well and will again.

Sucks to be her!


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## Freak On a Leash

No, it's not patience. It's being a doormat. It's being weak. I've been there, done that. But it's funny how the catalyst is when a woman who has spit on you every way you can imagine can't even remember what grade her child is in. 

After all my H put me though it was him failing my son that did it for me. I was just utterly and completely digusted with m H and wanted nothing to do with him and the marriage. 

Shi*t all over me, but don't mess with the kids. 

I have to ask... WHAT is a "DD"? I've been on this forum almost 3 years and can't believe I can't figure it out. :scratchhead:


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## zillard

Freak On a Leash said:


> No, it's not patience. It's being a doormat. It's being weak. I've been there, done that. But it's funny how the catalyst is when a woman who has spit on you every way you can imagine can't even remember what grade her child is in.
> 
> After all my H put me though it was him failing my son that did it for me. I was just utterly and completely digusted with m H and wanted nothing to do with him and the marriage.
> 
> Shi*t all over me, but don't mess with the kids.
> 
> I have to ask... WHAT is a "DD"? I've been on this forum almost 3 years and can't believe I can't figure it out. :scratchhead:


DD is Dear Daughter. 

And you are right. I have been weak and a doormat. And what you pointed out proves that I care more about my daughter than myself. While that sounds nice, it's a problem in a way. I need to focus on myself first in order to be a better father. I need to be strong in order to be a healthy role model so she doesn't learn that it's ok to be treated this way. I need to put the oxygen mask on myself first so I'll be able to help her.

It really was the catalyst and I felt exactly the same way as you. stbxw even saw it on my face when I spoke to her after. She said, "You're giving me this look of..." and I finished her statement for her, "disgust and disdain!" 

That made stbxw cry. And I don't care. She should feel bad about it!


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## Freak On a Leash

Yeah, my H said "I'm a worthless piece of sh*t and I failed our son." I just agreed with him. Talk about stating the obvious. :slap:

How many times is he going "sober up and get his act together?" This makes episode #4 in two years. 

Get drunk morning, noon, night, consume a quart of rum a day and smoke cigarettes by the case.

Get sick to the point of hospitalization.

Detox. Rehab. 

Then the "I'm so sorry, I'll make it better." Spend money like crazy looking to win everyone's love and respect back. 

Be good for a few months, maybe even work a few nonths and then fall apart and fall off the wagon, rinse and repeat. :banghead:

We're done. He's on his own. 

I was the same way though. I was weak. Scared. Dependent and I still loved him. I wasn't ready to make the break. You have to just KNOW when you're done and then you can forge ahead. 

You are right though. You have to be strong now and provide a good role model for your daughter. It's going to be rough on her because her mother is such a loser. I'm in the same situation with my son. His father did a real head job on him and let him down HARD. I'm pissed at myself for letting my husband take him to live with him. But in a way it gave my son a perspective and made our relationship better so there was a positive side. 

But a boy without a father is like a girl without a mother. As cliche as it sounds there is a connection there and it's hard to "fill in". You can only do the best you can and take it one step at a time. 

I think you are headed in the right direction. :smthumbup:


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## zillard

Freak On a Leash said:


> You are right though. You have to be strong now and provide a good role model for your daughter. It's going to be rough on her because her mother is such a loser. I'm in the same situation with my son. His father did a real head job on him and let him down HARD. I'm pissed at myself for letting my husband take him to live with him. But in a way it gave my son a perspective and made our relationship better so there was a positive side.
> 
> But a boy without a father is like a girl without a mother. As cliche as it sounds there is a connection there and it's hard to "fill in". You can only do the best you can and take it one step at a time.
> 
> I think you are headed in the right direction. :smthumbup:


Agreed. stbxw is well aware that her daughter will have abandonment issues, but thinks that will be better than long term emotional abuse. At least she is self aware at the moment. Thing that makes me angry is she keeps stating that's the reason for the divorce too - pushing me away to save me. lol. I told her she can't ruin me. That's not in her control. And I'm not leaving because of who she is, but because of what she's done and refuses to set right. She doesn't like that at all! It makes her feel guilt instead of playing the martyr.

I have DD a child psychologist already (who says she's doing great), and I'm 6 sessions into IC. I did agree to joint legal custody as it IS very important for her to have a connection with her mom. But I have the provision that I can move out of state as primary caregiver and I had her sign it before filing. 

stbxw will be coming to us during the school year but when DD goes to moms I will be traveling down too and staying close, working remotely so I can be around if something happens. Will give DD a cell phone too. And if mom screws up I have multiple emails she sent me questioning her own abilities as a mother, plus my journal of her parenting time and screw ups before the papers were filed. I will use them if need be.


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## Freak On a Leash

I never would've figured out what DD meant. 

I will allow visitation with my son provided that he wants to go and that my H is sober..and I mean SOBER, as in off the bottle, going to AA (as he promised he would THIS time) and that the house is clean and food is provided. After the mess I walked into and the neglect my son was put through I'm not taking any chances. 

When I went to pick him up and bring him home, my son missed a week of school because his father was too depressed and drunk to get him up. He wearing the same clothes for 2 weeks, dirty dishes piled high in the sink, food from thanksgiving dinner dried up in the fridge, old stale pizza and dried up take out Chinese food in bowls and boxes strewn throughout the apartment, empty coke cans everywhere and clothes piled up all over. Worse of all, there were towels covered in urine and feces in the bathroom because my H was having "accidents" as a result of his extreme drunken condition. Seen that before. 

When my son went over there one time last week to wait for me after school my H wouldn't let him take a nap on the couch with a blanket and spent a good portion of the time sitting outside in his car smoking and drinking. Needless to say my son doesn't go there anymore and he won't until my H gets his act together and I approve of the conditions under which he visits. 

My daughter won't even look at him, never mind visit him. He has put her though so much crap I can't even get into it. 

He doesn't deserve to be a father.


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## zillard

Freak On a Leash said:


> When I went to pick him up and bring him home, my son missed a week of school because his father was too depressed and drunk to get him up. He wearing the same clothes for 2 weeks, dirty dishes piled high in the sink, food from thanksgiving dinner dried up in the fridge, old stale pizza and dried up take out Chinese food in bowls and boxes strewn throughout the apartment, empty coke cans everywhere and clothes piled up all over. Worse of all, there were towels covered in urine and feces in the bathroom because my H was having "accidents" as a result of his extreme drunken condition. Seen that before.
> 
> When my son went over there one time last week to wait for me after school my H wouldn't let him take a nap on the couch with a blanket and spent a good portion of the time sitting outside in his car smoking and drinking. Needless to say my son doesn't go there anymore and he won't until my H gets his act together and I approve of the conditions under which he visits.
> 
> My daughter won't even look at him, never mind visit him. He has put her though so much crap I can't even get into it.
> 
> He doesn't deserve to be a father.


This is horrible Freak! I'm so sorry you've had to go through that. It really helps me put my situation into perspective. 

The most difficult part for me through this is the fact that my stbxw has completely changed since her affair started. That list of things I wrote all happened in 2 months. The 10 years previous were beautiful. She was a kind, loving spouse and attentive, caring mother. She breastfed for 2.5 years, cloth diapered, couldn't bear to be without her daughter for more than a few hours. Was a SAHM until this last year and was excellent at it. 

Our marriage was much too child-centric, which help lead to this situation though. She has trust issues due to childhood and will not trust babysitters, so that severely hampered our romantic life - few dates, etc. 

And now that I've exposed affair and papers have been filed I see that woman returning. She's making a huge effort to be involved with DD again and her attitude toward me has completely reversed. Much crying and apologizing. Wants to be here for Xmas and cook me Xmas dinner. But she is still unwilling to prove to me that I can trust her again. Won't change shifts to be around us more. Won't prove to me that she's cutoff contact with OM. Won't share FB password even though I've told her I hacked it and have seen everything. 

Such a shame as I cannot forgive and consider R without at least those things happening. 

So I will move on.


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## Freak On a Leash

Yeah, it was pretty bad but unfortunately it's not the only thing he's done. Some of it is here: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/relationships-addiction/61362-i-feel-shattered-3.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/life-after-divorce/62612-after-2-years-its-finally-going-happen.html

STBXH's a real piece of work. But I'm good at dealing with these things and have moved fast to try and give my son a stable, loving environment. He seems happier. At least he'll have a Christmas. My husband wasn't even going to put up a tree. He said "I don't think he needs a tree" when I asked him about it. 

My H is all about himself. He's the classic narcissist. Anyone else is just someone who can potentially worship him/feed his ego or is in the way. 

Your wife sounds interesting. She might have been a great mother, but sounds a bit overzealous. Breast feeding for over 2 years? Seriously? :wtf: That goes beyond attentive.

And she wouldn't leave her daughter for more than a few hours? A red flag goes up when I hear that a mother won't get a babysitter to watch the children so she can go out and spend quality time with her husband. Neglecting your husband and marriage so you can be super mom is a problem. I always feel sorry for men in that situation. 

Our problem was the opposite. We had no family and getting a good babysitter was a problem. Plus my son had ADHD and was hyper as a child so that was an issue. In 10 years my H and I got away for a weekend three times. We had babysitters on and off but it wasn't frequent. Usually my husband and I would trade off and give each other time to do things separately, which helped me but did nothing good for our marriage.

I had no issues with leaving my kids for a time. I craved and wanted time for myself and still do. I really hated raising them during early childhood but I love being a mom to my kids as teens/adults. Glad I didn't have more than two kids and made sure I wouldn't not long after my son was born. Now I won't even own a dog because of my fear of being tied down. 

At any rate, it sounds as if there was a lack of balance in your marriage and you grew apart. Interesting that she had the affair. Super Mom is unfaithful. Utter Fail in my book because you are also failing your kids when you break your marital vows. 

Now she's going emo on you and trying to come off as Super Wife but wants it all on her terms. She sounds pretty self centered. Whether you realize it or not, you've incorporated quite a bit of the "180" and the result is that she's running scared and turning on the charm. But she still wants to have and eat her cake too. 

I go with the "take out the trash theory". If you have a can of trash in your kitchen and it's stinking up your house, then it's time to take it out to the dumpster and get rid of it. Your wife is clearly a bag of stinky trash that's polluting your life. Despite her attempts to cover up the stench with perfume, it's time to dispose of her. Don't be fooled by her supposed "turnaround" .  

I'm sure my STBXH will attempt the same thing. Or maybe he'll go crazy on me. But in the end, it doesn't really matter (to quote Linkin Park)


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## zillard

Freak On a Leash said:


> A red flag goes up when I hear that a mother won't get a babysitter to watch the children so she can go out and spend quality time with her husband. Neglecting your husband and marriage so you can be super mom is a problem. I always feel sorry for men in that situation.


Yes, I've been telling her this for years - too attached to DD and needs to give her space for her autonomy. Then during her affair fog she was blame shifting and telling me I never made her feel special because I didn't take her out often enough, so I was partially to blame for her affair. lol. I told her "I will NEVER apologize for YOUR affair".



Freak On a Leash said:


> Now she's going emo on you and trying to come off as Super Wife but wants it all on her terms. She sounds pretty self centered. Whether you realize it or not, you've incorporated quite a bit of the "180" and the result is that she's running scared and turning on the charm. But she still wants to have and eat her cake too.
> 
> I go with the "take out the trash theory". If you have a can of trash in your kitchen and it's stinking up your house, then it's time to take it out to the dumpster and get rid of it. Your wife is clearly a bag of stinky trash that's polluting your life. Despite her attempts to cover up the stench with perfume, it's time to dispose of her. Don't be fooled by her supposed "turnaround" .


Yes, I am actively doing the 180. Ignoring her whiny emails and texts, walking away instead of arguing, going out with my old college buddies and not asking permission or telling her where I'm going, no longer waiting up for her to come home, not making her lunch like I used to, etc. 

It seems she is trying to manipulate me back now that I act like I don't care how this goes. Asked if she could keep the new car while I pay for it, wants to stay at my place in other state when she comes to visit DD, leaving NIN - Closer up on Spotify for me to see, trying to sit closer and closer to me on the couch, literally overdoing the perfume, wearing my button up shirts, wearing my coat to step outside instead of any of hers that fit fine, etc.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

> Originally posted by Zillard:
> There is still a minute chance that she could change my mind. But it would have to be something drastic on her part. And I'm not waiting for it to happen.


*WHY would you ever WANT her back?*

Not when she told me she has to be drunk to want me.
Not when she begged OM to come back and told me she would never beg for me to. 
Not when she agreed to let me take DD out of state if we split.
*How would you ever trust her again?*

*What would ever convince you that you weren't just a 'better meal ticket' than being single?*

*Why would you ever consider RISKING YOUR darling daughter's SANITY on another go-round with her mother & you?*

I hope 2013 and continued IC will bring you the clarity to say, NEVER. NEVER AGAIN. There'll NEVER be a cold enough day in Hell before I'll give her ANOTHER chance to stomp on DD & my hearts!

Peace and a Happy Christmas to you and your DD!


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## zillard

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> *WHY would you ever WANT her back?*
> 
> Not when she told me she has to be drunk to want me.
> Not when she begged OM to come back and told me she would never beg for me to.
> Not when she agreed to let me take DD out of state if we split.


I guess I've been looking back too much and focusing on how it was, in order to tell myself that the list items above were just affair fog.



SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> *How would you ever trust her again?*


Good, *hard* question. I previously made a list of things she'd need to do to rebuild trust. As I look back at them they are all under the assumption that this was simply affair fog. If not, that changes everything. 

Would I ever really enjoy intimacy with her again or would I always have doubts that she is simply doing it out of duty? Wow, if I didn't feel pathetic at first I surely would over time.



SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> *What would ever convince you that you weren't just a 'better meal ticket' than being single?*


Hmm. Denial and cognitive dissonance would surely work. Not sure what else would.



SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> *Why would you ever consider RISKING YOUR darling daughter's SANITY on another go-round with her mother & you?*


Selfishness. Insecurity. This points back to my final straw. Deep down I know I shouldn't and I need to keep reminding myself of that. Thank you.



SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> I hope 2013 and continued IC will bring you the clarity to say, NEVER. NEVER AGAIN. There'll NEVER be a cold enough day in Hell before I'll give her ANOTHER chance to stomp on DD & my hearts!
> 
> Peace and a Happy Christmas to you and your DD!


This is why these forums are so great. Without them I'd be second guessing myself too much and do something stupid. Here I can get a daily reminder and push in the right direction that IC can only provide weekly. I need to print this stuff out and make a binder for myself to reread when needed.

Peace and Merry Christmas to you and yours as well SGW. I know I can live up to your name if I keep it up. Thank you.


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## EnjoliWoman

zillard said:


> DD is Dear Daughter.
> 
> And you are right. I have been weak and a doormat. And what you pointed out proves that I care more about my daughter than myself. While that sounds nice, it's a problem in a way. I need to focus on myself first in order to be a better father. I need to be strong in order to be a healthy role model so she doesn't learn that it's ok to be treated this way. I need to put the oxygen mask on myself first so I'll be able to help her.
> 
> It really was the catalyst and I felt exactly the same way as you. stbxw even saw it on my face when I spoke to her after. She said, "You're giving me this look of..." and I finished her statement for her, "disgust and disdain!"
> 
> That made stbxw cry. And I don't care. She should feel bad about it!


Yes, you need to put yourself first. Not always - when your child is sick or in need... but mostly that makes children feel secure when parents come first. They know that provides a solid foundation. They sense when parents are strong and stable and OK with the word NO and discipline. And you need to be your own person - have your own interests. It's OK to be excited about doing something without them. If you are grounded and well rounded, it will translate to being a solid father. Putting kids first gives them power to manipulate and that's not good for them.


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## eldubya

I wouldn't have ever filed for divorce even if it killed me. What happened is my husband at the time started a fire that almost burned our house down and could have taken the neighborhood with it. He had been setting fires and causing damage both to the house and my health. He ignored me when I told him my concerns. This last fire was the last straw for me in that I called for help...I left the house and asked the firemen and neighbors to talk to him. Our insurance agent wrote a note to ask him to stop his activities as the house could not be insured with these going on. I stood up and requested a boundary...that was the end for him. He filed almost immediately after "the legendary fire".


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## Bafuna

Dumped and happy, Im from the 3rd world, not hungry, we are not at war, im divorced. Just so you know


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## happysnappy

I was almost ready to call it quits when he shoved a high chair across the kitchen, missing our 18 mo olds head by 6 inches but offered counseling. The actual final straw was when we went to counseling and he curled up in a chair in the corner shaking and said he was afraid of me. He also told the counselor the high chair incident never happened, I made it up. That was the end. If you can't own your mistakes there is no hope


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## Bafuna

Zillard I have tears running down my cheeks from your post........the 2nd grader issue........did anyone else find as hilarious, I cant stop laughing.


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## zillard

Ha. Yeah. 

If she can't even get her daughter's grade correct, how could I ever expect her to be an attentive wife?


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## Welsh TXN

My final straw was the Sunday morning after I was asked to leave on the Friday night I had spent the week prior alone she had gone on a business trip to Florida. We did not speak the whole week she came home the Thursday night and stayed in a hotel with the OM. But back to the Sunday morning well I came home talk to her and walked in on them In on them in the bedroom not doing anything but the OM who I thought was a friend cowering in the corner, I was mad threatened to kill him etc but nothing came of it as I was stopped by my exW we talked she promised nothing happened but I could not get over that at all then I stayed at a house we rent for work purposes well, we talked on and off for the next couple of days her being all nice but continuing to see the OM, my next door neighbor was telling me about the OM turning up at 10pm and leaving at 6-7am the whole time while she was saying that she wanted to reconcile and be together. Anyways I found an apartment and continued to move forward with my life. Divorce proceedings were started by her him march 2012 granted in may 2012 and we spoke only once in that time about my lawyer asking for certain things I was getting screwed as my lawyer put it and wanted full disclosure from her about financial dealings anyways she called me screaming and crying at this point I had plenty of evidence about the relationship of her and the other man. I told her disclose or we go to court and the whole of the small town we lived in would know what she did. She cried and begged not to do that and disclosed everything my lawyer wanted. 

I know I had responsibilities in the marriage that I didn't live up to one thing that I was bad about was my chores the garden etc manly stuff lol anyways I would say I would do them and then only do half because I was working 80-90 hrs per week and I just didn't want to do them at the weekend when I wanted to spend time with her, but I was told in no uncertain terms that this was a failing as a man, I let her walk all over me due to giving in on certain things early on in the dating cycle and she lost respect for me I see that now. My final straw in my mind was the fact that I could not get over she had been with another while still in our vows, I found that in my own head I could not get over that and it stopped me from reconciling with her I could no longer trust or respect her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## whitehawk

36Separated said:


> As omeone of the receiving end of the divorce i dont want. In our marriage there have been very minor issues over the years, until last year i got ill with depression following my mum dieing, i started to drink and this pushed us apart. She left to give us a break but after arguing i change the door lock - that pushed her into the divorce. i've now had councilling and im fully better and have fixed all the issues i had, I've given her a key to the house and told her I want her to move home, ill move out and ill sign the house over to her. We now get on fine as friends and with the kids and she tells me she sees ive changed and ideally we would be back together but to much has happend.
> I take full account for what i have done and ive put everything right since.
> Given what i said, and we have 3 kids is she right to cont the divorce or would you of given it another chance.
> 
> I ask all this as I do understand i drove her out, but I stuck in a place where i blame her for not trying to solve seeing all the issues have been fixed. Part of me doesnt blame her for what she id doing, but then part of me says we got married for life through sickness and i have come through the illness
> 
> Any thoughts??? Be honest



She's thinking too modern , a lot of people are doing that now that's why the divorce rates so high. 
No one gives things the chance to turn full circle now , like say my parents did after much worse than this , married 56yrs and re fell in love. 
Yours is very similar to mine. I drove mine away too but she also helped drive me away . Our circle was about to round the next bend to though but no , too late , too much has happened , bla bla bla and fkg BS I say .

I shouldn't be here and my daughter should still have her family , we could have come through.
Yours sounds very very similar to me .

Good luck anyway in which ever way life goes for ya now !


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