# Newbie With Question



## daisyifyoudo (Aug 27, 2020)

Hi all, I'm hoping to get some advice from neutral third parties as it's hard to talk to RL friends/family about intimate things. For a little background, my husband and I are in our thirties and have been married for 7 years, together for 11. We were both virgins. My husband's a few years younger and was 19 when we were exclusively dating.

He wanted to know my opinion on open marriages and felt in some ways he's missing out as we were a couple when he was quite young. He phrased he likes attention from people, especially the opposite sex, i.e. flirting. We had an honest discussion but I personally don't desire an open marriage while I feel he's more open to the idea. 

I feel like the crux of the issue is he has more sexual desires than I do and brought up the 'seven year itch' line. I trust him and don't fear he'll cheat, but it's annoying to me he seems to spend more time chatting with female co-workers than me (I know they're all friends and I have no issues with female friends as I've hung out with them as well).

We looked into therapists, and saw one 2-3 times but the out-of-pocket pay was costly. Sex therapists are even more so. 

I was wondering if there might be some advice out there from others who've walked a similar path.


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

Your story could have been written by my wife several years ago. We started dating at 16 and married at 18. She was my first and only. I started having thoughts of getting into swinging and gave a similar reason; never had a chance to experience others,missed out, etc. I had the higher sex desire and brought up the seven year itch as well. Truth was, I was addicted to porn and had a warped idea of what sex was suppose to be and was trying to experience porn sex. Wife half-heatedly went along, going with me to meet couples. We fought about it a lot and it destroyed her trust in me which took me years to rebuild. Thankfully we never had sex with others. I credit her with saving me from making a huge mistake and for probably saving our marriage because I'm convinced that had we started swinging, it would have destroyed us. Looking back, I can see how wrong I was for putting her through it.

Do not get involved in bringing others into your marriage. The risk is just too high and you have too much to lose. Fight this with everything that is in you


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

If your husband wants to experience other people, he needs to do that as a divorced man. 

What he is doing right now with the female co-workers is playing with fire. He doesn't need to be seeking attention from other women. At first it's just talking, then it's just flirting, then what? What happens when that isn't enough and he needs just a little more? Don't think that can't happen... because it can. You need to be more aware that he could cheat. It's good that you trust him, you need to trust your spouse, but you shouldn't trust anyone 100%. 

For therapy, individual counseling is usually cheaper than marriage counseling and that may benefit him more right now. You could also look for a therapist who has a sliding scale. That may make it more affordable.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Virgins or not virgins, when people marry young it's very common for them to divorce a few years later because one or both of them wants to explore what they feel they missed out on. I wouldn't be so sure he won't cheat. He'd probably be perfectly happy keeping you and hoping you look the other way while he explored because that's exactly what he asked you.

You need to be clear to him that that is not something you are up for. He wants to date other women he needs to get a divorce first and at least give you that much respect. I don't blame him for wanting to explore because it's natural to do that when you're young instead of just being tied to one person for years . But more importantly they're formative years when your brain is still growing and you're still changing and you're growing into adulthood and basically becoming a different person so people can very easily not be on the exact same path.

The partner you wanted at 19 and the partner you'll want at 30 will very likely be two different people.

I think all you can do is be clear that you are not on the same page about this.


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## misschris85 (Aug 22, 2020)

If there are any (and I mean any) issues in your marriage as it relates to sex and intimacy, I highly discourage you from doing an open marriage. I tried it with my ex husband when we were having issues and well, it did not help at all. In fact, it made things worse.

Ex was more interested in doing threesomes (well, having me participate in threesomes. He and the other guy did not do anything with each other) and convinced me to give it a try (I had never done that prior to this experience). We had set some rules as we embarked on this seemingly exciting journey. I mostly thought that it would help solve some of the issues we were having. 

To be fair it was definitely exciting at first and it was awesome getting all this attention from other guys (which I never got before, ex husband was my first boyfriend) and it definitely spiced up our marriage. It seemed like things were getting better for us. However that was short lived as it only distracted from the real issues in our marriage instead of making things better. Ultimately, he got jealous of how much attention I was getting from one guy in particular and thought that feelings were starting to develop on my part (not true). I can also be to blame for this as I did not stick to the rules we had set out as we started this. 

So, unless you are both secure in your marriage, I definitely do not recommend doing this. If you are secure in your marriage, then make sure that you both come up with rules for how to play this out and you have to stick to it. There can be no black and white when you guys make your rules. Once rules start getting broken, the trust starts to break down as well.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Personally my advice is, never allow another to enter your marriage. If that is what you decide to do, you may as well divorce now to avoid the heartache.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

daisyifyoudo said:


> He wanted to know my opinion on open marriages and felt in some ways he's missing out as we were a couple when he was quite young. He phrased he likes attention from people, especially the opposite sex, i.e. flirting.


This is a common danger of becoming committed too young and too inexperienced. I was the same as your husband. I was only 17 and got married because I was pregnant. I wasn't satisfied with our sex life and ended my marriage after only two years so that I could explore. I don't have any regrets whatsoever, but I'm a woman and it's very different for your husband. I wanted to find someone I could enjoy having sex with. Your husband wants to have sex with lots of people and to increase frequency. That's a big difference but common for guys to want frquency. You don't say how often you and he have sex but if it's relatively frequent (3-5 times a week), he might not feel the need to go exploring. Dissatisfaction is a powerful motivator, such as in my own case and your husband's.



daisyifyoudo said:


> We had an honest discussion but I personally don't desire an open marriage while I feel he's more open to the idea.
> 
> I feel like the crux of the issue is he has more sexual desires than I do and brought up the 'seven year itch' line.


Google's dictionary is provided by Oxford University. So according to Google and Oxford, this is the meaning of the word crux: the decisive or most important point at issue.

I don't see that him having more sexual desire than you as the crux of your issue. The crux to me is why you don't want sex as often as he does or at least more frequently than you do now? Or more to the point, why the two of you have not found an acceptable compromise that you both can be happy with? I know how common it is that couples have this type of problem. It's just that I've never understood couples having this type of problem. You don't turn your husband down without reason. There is one or more reasons that you don't want to have sex, so why you don't want to is what you need to examine and determine, at least for yourself.

1. Do you not find sex completely satisfying?
For example, I didn't know what I was missing in my sex life with my first husband. I only knew I was missing something. I didn't know what sexual satisfaction was like. I only knew I wasn't satisfied. I hated feeling like sex was only for his enjoyment and I was just his tool to use. Therefore, I knew I couldn't stay in that marriage. Once I found sexual satisfaction, I never got into the habit of saying no to my guy's advances because even if I wasn't in the mood, I knew I would enjoy it once we got started.

You were both virgins, so you may not have discovered satisfaction yet. And if you haven't, then sex is a give or take proposition for you because what you have is all you know. Inexperienced couples often don't realize that sex is different for men and women, in that it feels good to a man just because he's screwing. But screwing doesn't automatically feel good to a woman and even if it does feel good to her, that doesn't mean it's satisfying for her. There are lots of women who only have intercourse for their husband's sake, but they are bored during intercourse because it's not the same fulfilling experience that it is for him. So they avoid sex as often as they can get away with saying "I'm not in the mood."

2. Does your husband often make you angry or hurt your feelings?
It can be quite the turn-off if he does or says things that are hurtful. It's also a turn-off if he doesn't do the things you ask of him or if he ignores and minimizes your feelings when you try to express yourself. Making you feel undervalued will make you feel like you don't want to give yourself to him or that he doesn't deserve you.

3. Does he spend time with you, or does he busy himself with other things?
For some guys, if not most/if not all, sex makes them feel loved, close, and connected. A woman, however, needs to feel loved and cared about outside the bedroom in order to feel connected to her husband. If she doesn't feel connected, then she doesn't want sex. If he prefers working, video games, his buddies, his internet devices, or pornography rather than spending quality time with you, then he could be shooting himself in the foot because they make you feel neglected. None of that is conducive to improving your desire or even to feel inclined to give in when you're not in the mood. They are desire killers. You cannot be expected to care about his needs if he makes you feel like he doesn't care about yours.

If this is an issue for you, your husband may need to understand that marriage is a two-way street, in which effort and input on his part are as much a requirement as he feels frequent sex is required. He needs to open up and express how he feels about you and what you mean to him. Even washing dishes together each night can go a long way to help bring you closer together. At least one date night each week is highly recommended by marriage experts.

4. Are you taking hormone birth control or any medications that kill your libido?
For many women, various types of birth control are also desire killers. If you are on birth control, talk with your doctor about it to see if there are alternatives.

By the same token, medications and mood stabilizers for anxiety, depression, OCD, and other mental issues kill a person's libido. I'm not familiar with these types of meds, but I've heard that Wellbutrin doesn't affect libido like most of the others do. If you're taking medications for any of these types of conditions, see if there are alternatives your doctor can prescribe.

5. Have you ever had your hormone levels checked?
It may be more common that a man's low libido can be attributed to low testosterone levels. But we women don't always realize that our hormones can get out of whack too. If you haven't had a complete blood work-up in quite a while, you should ask your doctor to test your hormone levels. These tests can also reveal other hidden concerns that you didn't know to be concerned about, such as low iron, high cholesterol, low potassium/magnesium, low/high glucose (sugar), and undetected thyroid activity to name a few.

6. Does he watch pornography and then want sex with you?
This can be very degrading and make you feel both used and inadequate. A woman needs to feel desired and that her man wants HER, not just that he needs a receptacle for release. If your husband does this to you. explain how he makes you feel, then explain how you need him to make you feel.

So this may not be an exhaustive list of things to think about. I just wanted to give you some ideas to get you started on examining your feelings and circumstances that might be affecting your desire to have sex with your husband. Think about these and anything else that might be bothering you or might be the cause of your lack of desire, and then come back and share them with us so we may offer some possible solutions.



daisyifyoudo said:


> it's annoying to me he seems to spend more time chatting with female co-workers than me


And that's a big clue right there. It's degrading that he prefers to spend time with other women than his wife, and that makes you feel inadequate. It's also EXTREMELY disrespectful, and no woman should want to screw a man who disrespects her and makes her feel like he prefers the attention and the company of others over her. But this is also on you because it's a matter of your own standards, values, and boundaries. Although it's annoying to you that he does this, you are allowing him to do it, which means you have no standards or boundaries that you place on your husband and marriage. Do you see why I'm saying the crux of your problem runs much deeper? These types of things can contribute to your lack of desire because they eat away at your soul.



daisyifyoudo said:


> I trust him and don't fear he'll cheat.....(I know they're all friends and I have no issues with female friends as I've hung out with them as well)


The below quote was taken from *MarriageBuilders.com* by Dr. Willard Harley in his series on infidelity:

_"Look what happened to poor Kathy Lee Gifford. She stated publicly and wrote in one of her books that she trusted her husband completely, that he would never cheat on her. But she should not have trusted her husband. If she would have taken the steps she is now taking to help him avoid another affair, the first would never have taken place, and she would have avoided all its pain and embarrassment. I don't trust my wife completely and she doesn't trust me, and that's why neither of us have ever had an affair. Lack of trust does not make spouses paranoid and miserable, it makes their marriages safe."_

Nobody has any business trusting their partner so implicitly as you trust your husband. If spouses could trust each other, there would never be any infidelity. Nobody would mess around on their wife or husband. He has told you that he is interested in other women. He has told you he likes the attention from other women. He also spends time with other women instead of you. What do you think all of that means? Instead of listening to him and reading his obvious signals, you are thinking you have a say in the matter. But you don't. And the way to know that you don't is he has asked you to join him in messing around with other people. That request is asking for your permission AND your participation in being unfaithful so that he can be unfaithful and then when your marriage falls apart, he can blame you for agreeing to everything.

It's prelude to infidelity.
It's prelude to the blame game.
And it's prelude to divorce.

I mentioned before that you need to establish standards, values, and boundaries. Once you do that, don't allow him to talk you into compromising your integrity.

First examine and figure out the reasons you don't want sex with your husband and work on those. Then, the true honest discussion is how the two of you need to devote yourselves to caring about each other and each other's needs.

If he still wants to mess around after all that, then tell him goodbye and slam the door behind him.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

daisyifyoudo said:


> Hi all, I'm hoping to get some advice from neutral third parties as it's hard to talk to RL friends/family about intimate things. For a little background, my husband and I are in our thirties and have been married for 7 years, together for 11. We were both virgins. My husband's a few years younger and was 19 when we were exclusively dating.
> 
> He wanted to know my opinion on open marriages and felt in some ways he's missing out as we were a couple when he was quite young. He phrased he likes attention from people, especially the opposite sex, i.e. flirting. We had an honest discussion but I personally don't desire an open marriage while I feel he's more open to the idea.
> 
> ...


Hey!
Listen, if this is not something you want, DO NOT DO IT. Don't betray your own self-worth and wishes for your husband, you will regret it, and regret is such a waste of time, isn't it? If he wants to be with other women, then it seems like it would be an amicable split. 

I can't imagine my husband being with someone else, so I can imagine you would feel exactly the same, but on the other hand, yours feels like he missed out. It's a tough situation...

If you want/choose to, suggest an amicable divorce. See what he thinks of that. Or else, think of other options that you would be comfortable with. I wonder...

How would he feel about it if you said you wanted other partners?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I just want to add, you be sure you cannot get pregnant while this is all up in the air. If you are on the road to divorce, the last thing either of you need is to bring a child into the situation.

I also want to add that you having more sex with your husband is in no way any guarantee that that is all that is driving his desire to bring another person into the marriage more to explore. As you can readily see all around you, there are many men with perfectly wonderful wives who have sex with them enough who nonetheless want to sample a variety of women. So if I were you I would not get out of my comfort zone there because it may not make any difference whatsoever.


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## daisyifyoudo (Aug 27, 2020)

My responses have ----------in front, I wasn't savvy enough to find a different font color or something.



StarFires said:


> This is a common danger of becoming committed too young and too inexperienced. I was the same as your husband. I was only 17 and got married because I was pregnant. I wasn't satisfied with our sex life and ended my marriage after only two years so that I could explore. I don't have any regrets whatsoever, but I'm a woman and it's very different for your husband. I wanted to find someone I could enjoy having sex with. Your husband wants to have sex with lots of people and to increase frequency. That's a big difference but common for guys to want frquency. You don't say how often you and he have sex but if it's relatively frequent (3-5 times a week), he might not feel the need to go exploring. Dissatisfaction is a powerful motivator, such as in my own case and your husband's.
> 
> ----------We work different shifts and really only see much of each other on the weekends. We have sex about 2-3 times a week.
> 
> ...


We don't have children thankfully. And to the question on what he'd think about me with another partner, he said he wasn't sure how he'd react as he's never been in that situation. He did once months ago ask me if I would be more assertive/turned on if I had another partner but I said no and he left it at that.

I'm also kind of miffed at porn for giving,or impressing upon, people that most sex is or should be like that when the fact is it's scripted and has actors.

These responses have been immensely helpful, I'm grateful. I'm almost tempted to have him join and ask his own questions.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

daisyifyoudo said:


> My responses have ----------in front, I wasn't savvy enough to find a different font color or something.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I dont agree with some of the posters here who say that those who meet and marry young usually want to explore sexually later. The best and longest and happiest marriages I know are between couples who met in their teens and were each others one and only, and I know many like that. He is just using that as an excuse to cheat.
Bringing another person into a marriage is a disaster, and what happened to the promises he made you? They didnt last long did they.
The fact that he flirts is a red flag, and I cant see this man being a faithful husband to you, if he hasn't already cheated.
Sorry but you may need to accept that you married a man who will cheat and walk away.

Porn as you say gives such a skewed picture of what sex is supposed to be, its so damaging for a marriage.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> I dont agree with some of the posters here who say that those who meet and marry young usually want to explore sexually later. The best and longest and happiest marriages I know are between couples who met in their teens and were each others one and only, and I know many like that. He is just using that as an excuse to cheat.


I know a few like that too, and I'm sure we both admire those marriages.....from afar. We can't have any idea what those couples went through over their many years of marriage. Had Daisyifyoudo never come here, you wouldn't know her and her husband existed or anything about their struggle going on right now. And didn't Diceplayer testify to the same thing and credit his wife for saving their marriage? He doesn't say how long they have been married, but we would both probably add them to our rolls as another example of one of the happy longevity couples if we knew them. All outsiders can do is look over their fence and think their grass is greener and their whole lives have been wonderful and problem-free. How could you narrowly presume to know what any party of all those couples ever thought, felt, did or didn't want to do at any point on any day of their lives together? You also couldn't know if one or more of them ever did go through with cheating on their spouse in search of better or more frequent sexual satisfaction. You can only know what you think you see, which is that whatever they went through - because every couple goes through something - they have come out the other end and survived just like Diceplayer and his wife. Had he never shared his story, you wouldn't know about their struggle either.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

StarFires said:


> I know a few like that too, and I'm sure we both admire those marriages.....from afar. We can't have any idea what those couples went through over their many years of marriage. Had Daisyifyoudo never come here, you wouldn't know her and her husband existed or anything about their struggle going on right now. And didn't Diceplayer testify to the same thing and credit his wife for saving their marriage? He doesn't say how long they have been married, but we would both probably add them to our rolls as another example of one of the happy longevity couples if we knew them. All outsiders can do is look over their fence and think their grass is greener and their whole lives have been wonderful and problem-free. How could you narrowly presume to know what any party of all those couples ever thought, felt, did or didn't want to do at any point on any day of their lives together? You also couldn't know if one or more of them ever did go through with cheating on their spouse in search of better or more frequent sexual satisfaction. You can only know what you think you see, which is that whatever they went through - because every couple goes through something - they have come out the other end and survived just like Diceplayer and his wife. Had he never shared his story, you wouldn't know about their struggle either.


I agree with this, and I'll add... @Diana7 I assume you and your ex-husband were virgins when you married, yes? And I assume you met when you were on the younger side. You got divorced... So just because _some _of those marriages _seem to _work out well clearly doesn't mean they all do.

I know two couples who have been together since their teen years and didn't date anyone else, in both marriages one spouse cheated with one other person. Very few people know about either incident and both couples lie about it. One couple, the husband wanted kids and the wife kept pushing it off, they don't have kids and they lie that they never wanted them. The other couple dated for like 20 years before getting married, they said they wanted to wait, saved money, etc. in reality it was because of infidelity. So to many they are such great couples, so cute, etc. in reality... eh, not so much.

Hell, even my parents have been together since they were teens and, as far as I know, they are each other's one and only. Yes, they are still together but they separated several times during my childhood (which they hid from people), they fought plenty, my dad was an ass and took years and years to sort his **** out, etc. They are still together and are happy now (or so it seems) but it wasn't an easy road getting there.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> I dont agree with some of the posters here who say that those who meet and marry young usually want to explore sexually later. The best and longest and happiest marriages I know are between couples who met in their teens and were each others one and only, and I know many like that. He is just using that as an excuse to cheat.
> Bringing another person into a marriage is a disaster, and what happened to the promises he made you? They didnt last long did they.
> The fact that he flirts is a red flag, and I cant see this man being a faithful husband to you, if he hasn't already cheated.
> Sorry but you may need to accept that you married a man who will cheat and walk away.
> ...


I married "young" as did most of us who are now in our 60s. 21 & 22. I've not felt a need to explore my sexuality with others. I have felt a need to explore it with my wife. Getting there.

I think those who have chosen to look outside their marriage for sex will come up with whatever convenient reason suits their generation.

And I still believe porn, to perhaps men, is NOT what women think it is. It's not always about wild positions and absurd circus acts you wish your wife would do. It is, more often than not (I believe) a way to avoid dealing with real and very serious sexual issues.

@Diana, just try next time you see a reference to porn in a thread, looking at it in this way first, and see if it makes sense. Is this guy spending time with porn because it's easier than dealing with his relationship issue? 

Where porn becomes a problem is when it takes ever-increasing amounts of it, ever-increasing bizarre acts, to satisfy a guy's thirst for such things. When you see that, you're talking addiction. But more often than not I think it's frustration and inability to deal with the problem that drives men to a fairly-regular habit of porn.

So I see porn is often evidence of a damaged marriage, not necessarily that porn created the damage in the marriage. Your mileage may vary and I respect your opinion.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

bobert said:


> I agree with this, and I'll add... @Diana7 I assume you and your ex-husband were virgins when you married, yes? And I assume you met when you were on the younger side. You got divorced... So just because _some _of those marriages _seem to _work out well clearly doesn't mean they all do.
> 
> I know two couples who have been together since their teen years and didn't date anyone else, in both marriages one spouse cheated with one other person. Very few people know about either incident and both couples lie about it. One couple, the husband wanted kids and the wife kept pushing it off, they don't have kids and they lie that they never wanted them. The other couple dated for like 20 years before getting married, they said they wanted to wait, saved money, etc. in reality it was because of infidelity. So to many they are such great couples, so cute, etc. in reality... eh, not so much.
> 
> Hell, even my parents have been together since they were teens and, as far as I know, they are each other's one and only. Yes, they are still together but they separated several times during my childhood (which they hid from people), they fought plenty, my dad was an ass and took years and years to sort his **** out, etc. They are still together and are happy now (or so it seems) but it wasn't an easy road getting there.


Yep, that's the way it goes, isn't it? Makes no sense to ever think you know what goes on behind other people's picket fence. 

To add to your stories of the long-term couples we know, I only know 3. Or, I guess I should say I only knew 3 because both spouses of two of those couples have passed away and only one couple is still with us. Out of the two though, you will never believe what the husband of one of them did. They were close family friends, and my sisters and I spent a lot of time at their house. Theirs was like our second home, and I called the wife "my other mother." But I got to the point where, if he was around, I would go home to stay out of his way because he propositioned me too many times for comfort. It was only 2 or 3 times but get this.....I was 12 years old. He never touched me, thank goodness, but surely tried to get me to have sex with him.

I never told a soul.

So nobody knew, and they continued to be the pristine picture of marital bliss and the perfect example of longevity. Last year, I dutifully devoted myself to writing his glowing obituary just like I had done for his wife 10 years prior, and their kids thanked me for it. 

And nobody will ever know.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Casual Observer said:


> I married "young" as did most of us who are now in our 60s. 21 & 22. I've not felt a need to explore my sexuality with others. I have felt a need to explore it with my wife. Getting there.
> 
> I think those who have chosen to look outside their marriage for sex will come up with whatever convenient reason suits their generation.
> 
> ...


Not disputing what you say because I believe you are correct, but Diana7 was also correct in saying that it damages marriages. While it is symptom and product of their marital problems, it's also often used/viewed as an educational tool whether or not monkey sex and contortion are involved. Additionally, the sex depicted in porn are 9 times out of 10 just for men's pleasure becaus way too seldom anything is being done for the woman's pleasure and satisfaction. Maybe you can't tell, but as a woman I can. Lots of guys, particularly young men, take their cues from what they see.. Moreover, women are poorly,unfavorably/disrespectfully represented in pornography, and lots of guys, particularly young men, take their cues from that too.

So there are numerous reasons that pornography is problematic that are not tantamount to addiction.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

While that feeling of 'wanting to explore' or 'missing out' can occur in such a relationship, there's just as many marriages with infidelity and 'wanting to explore' where the spouses have had plenty of previous partners, too. And that says, what? That just says it's a jumbled human experience. Some do, some don't.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Spicy said:


> Personally my advice is, never allow another to enter your marriage. If that is what you decide to do, you may as well divorce now to avoid the heartache.


Booyah.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

daisyifyoudo said:


> And to the question on what he'd think about me with another partner, he said he wasn't sure how he'd react as he's never been in that situation.


See? That's unfair, aside from the fact that you don't want it. In truth, I think he would be angry, let alone jealous. I think you have to look within yourself and make some sort of decision, any decision, as to how you want to live your life, and what you find acceptable and unacceptable.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

GC1234 said:


> See? That's unfair, aside from the fact that you don't want it. In truth, I think he would be angry, let alone jealous. I think you have to look within yourself and make some sort of decision, any decision, as to how you want to live your life, and what you find acceptable and unacceptable.


Actually his response was accurate and honest. He doesn't know how he will feel because he has not been in that situation before. Neither does she. Feelings and responses and reactions do not come with chrystal balls that tell us the future. 

It's not really fair of us to tell her what he will feel. 

Yes he may be jealous. Perhaps even angry. Or he may really dig it. 

Same with her. She may feel insecure or threatened, perhaps jealous. Or she too may really dig it and find it very empowering and enriching to her confidence and self-esteem. 

She is likely somewhat intrigued by this idea on some level as well otherwise she would have simply shot him down and been disgusted and told him to get his head out of the clouds and water seal the deck like she's been asking him all summer. 

Having some kind of intrigue for variety and novelty and wondering what else is out there is perfectly normal and occurs to one degree in one form or another in every long term relationship. It's something that every couple has to face and address in one way or another at various points. 

Noone is going to know exactly how they will feel or react to it. 

But the thing is this is something that a couple can explore together incrementally over a long journey together by taking little baby steps here and there. 

The first step is simply having open, non judgemental discussions about it. Because you talk about on a thursday night does not mean you have to jump into a Brazilian circus midget gang bang orgy on Friday. You can have discussions over weeks and months about each of your ideas and fantasies and desires as well as boundaries and limits and things you are not at all interested in. 

Another step can be to find a couple swinger forums and read the discussions there and even pose your own questions to those sites. This is really not a good forum to discuss anything outside a traditional, monogamous marriage because many of the people on this site have come her to deal with the impacts of infidelity. In other words, talking to people who have been cheated on is probably not a great place to discuss consensual nonmonogamy other than receiving the knee-jerk, "DON'T DO IT!"

We all tend to knock porn here, but watching some homemade amateur videos with real people with real bodies can be another step and seeing if it seems intriguing to you or not. 

Another step can be checking out some swinger or polyamourus or open marriage sites and chat online with some other couples and get a feel for what is out there and what other couples in similar situations are doing. 

Most swinger clubs encourage and embrace people coming to the club to check out the scene and meet and talk with other couples without any expectation of actually dropping clothes and having sex with anyone right then and there. Most couples go home from the clubs by themselves most nights and have spent the evening socializing and dancing and interacting in a open and sex-positive and sexually charged environment. 

I can go but I think you get my point. Marriage is a life-long journey and sexuality is a part of that journey and this too is something that can be explored and experimented with tiny, incremental baby-steps along the way. 

It was two full years of open, heart to heart discussions, researching the swinging lifestyle, talking with other couples, watching amateur swinger videos etc etc before my wife and I ever had actual sexual contact with another couple. Our journey and length of time exploring and experimenting was not at all unusual in the lifestyle. 

In the beginning we simply had no clue how we would feel or how we would react. But we held each others hands and took tiny baby steps along that path together.


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## Dadto2 (Aug 11, 2020)

There is no such thing as an open marriage. You are either committed entirely to your spouse or you need to divorce so one/both can live the single life. You need to make this very clear. You would be a fool for allowing it. Like others have said, bringing someone else into your marriage never, ever works out. It will only destroy your marriage. 

Just be aware that when you nix the idea, he may have an affair behind your back. You need to have a talk with him and stand firm that this is not a subject you will even entertain. A man that loves this wife would never, ever bring this subject up.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

daisyifyoudo said:


> Hi all, I'm hoping to get some advice from neutral third parties as it's hard to talk to RL friends/family about intimate things.


These parties here are not neutral. Many of the people here are here because they have had infidelity or some other kind of trauma in their past and any mention of anything that is not completely monogamous in nature sets off alarm bells and has everyone running for the zombie shelter. 

There are only a few of us here that have practiced any kind of consensual nonmonogamy as a conscious lifestyle choice. 

Now that being said, are there risks and potential pitfalls and minefields? ABSOLUTELY!!

Have I seen marriages blown apart first hand during my years in the swinging lifestyle? Yes I have. 

But in my 56 years I have seen countless traditional marriages damaged and destroyed by boredom, frustration, dissatisfaction, infidelity, chronic resentment, abuse, chemical abuse and people simply no longer talking to each other and allowing themselves to grow apart. 

There are a million and one things that can cause a couple to lose interest, desire, love and connection for each other. The couple that takes on the journey of life and love together and that walks their path together with open communication, respect, compassion and ability to work together will always come out better than the couples who don't whether they are monogamous or consensually nonmonogamous. 

So the moral of the story here is open up and talk to each other honestly and compassionately and know what each others current ideas, values, mores, desires and feelings are as well as your limits, boundaries and deal-breakers. 

This applies whether you ultimately decide to remain completely exclusive or not. 

I used to be involved in emergency management and we had saying that the plan was not as important as the planning. What that meant was that the true value of emergency planning was people from different agencies and disciplines sitting down and having open discussions and planning for emergencies was more important that what the final, written plan ended up being. 

I think this is true for couples discussing the sexual dynamics of their marriage. What you end up ultimately doing is probably not as important as the discussions and communication and journey that you take together to get there.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Dadto2 said:


> There is no such thing as an open marriage. You are either committed entirely to your spouse or you need to divorce so one/both can live the single life. You need to make this very clear. You would be a fool for allowing it. Like others have said, bringing someone else into your marriage never, ever works out. It will only destroy your marriage.


I completely disagree with that. 

I believe each individual couple can determine what works best for them based on their own interests, values, wants and desires as well as their commitment and willingness to put in the effort to make their marriage work for them. 

Most couple will choose to be monogamous for most of their marriage. 

Some will choose to be monogamous until the desire to be with someone else surpasses their desire to remain with their current partner and then they will split. 

But some couples function best if they have a little bit of leeway and are able to have the open communication and the mutual respect and compassion to work out different options and alternatives to strict exclusivity. 

People say life is short. In reality our lives can be very long. What worked for 25 year olds with babies and new careers is not the same as 50 year olds with grown children and retirement accounts. 

As we grow and develop and go through life, we change, we evolve. Our lives and lifestyles are different than they were decades ago. Society is different today than it was decades ago. The economy and politics are different than it was decades ago. 

Our desires and wants and needs as well as boundaries and deal-breakers are different than they were years ago. 

My wife and I have our 25th anniversary coming up in a couple months. The first 10 years of our marriage was completely traditional and exclusive. The next 10 years we were very active swingers. The last several years have been traditional and monogamous again. Next year it may be something completely different. 

We can't sit and say what is best for other couples because other couples are made up of different people. 

What works best for one, may not work for another at all. Yes, many people would rather divorce than have their partner touch someone else. That's is their choice and their perogative. 

Other people will dig it and embrace it. 

Are there dangers? Absolutely there are!! But the biggest danger we will ever face is driving to work in the morning. More people die of heart disease than all the wars combined. Risk is everywhere. 

Is there a risk of you or your partner falling in love with a swing-partner and leaving the marriage? YES, I have witnessed it personally. But I have also seen countless people leave their partner for someone at work and at the gym and all flames they reconnected with on Facebook. 

Human relationships are complex and they come and they go. They wax and they wane. Some relationships start in jr high and last a full lifetime. Others only last a matter of months. There's no guarantees in this world. 

But there is not a tiny, rigid, little box that if we can stuff everyone into, that everything will work out great 50 years later. Some couples flourish in consensual nonmonogamy. Others are destroyed by it. 

Some couples flourish in strict monogamy, others are destroyed by it. 

We have a life expectancy of almost 80 years. That means that couples have to communicate and be open and honest about their desires and their wants and needs as well as their boundaries and deal-breakers. That is true for all couples whether they choose to be monogamous or nonmonogamous.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

I think hubby needs help. He’s left reality and become lost in the fantasy world of porn... so sorry. Not good father material in the place he’s in.

I’d try to get him into a church and pondering eternity versus his spending time thinking how he can turn marital intimacy into a circus act.

I’d add that you should ask hubby if he is willing to raise any children created during the open marriage... perhaps especially if you find a man with superior genetic qualities to his (smarter, taller, better looking).


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> Since we are in the middle of a very contentious political climate, I am going to use a bit of a political analogy here.


Oldshirt, I didn't want to quote your entire post, so I just snipped the first line to indicate which post of yours I'm talking about.

I categorically disagree with this post, and I'm severely offended by it. I also don't appreciate you using this subject matter to disseminate your political views and opinions on the General Discussion Forum in an entirely unrelated topic in such an opportunistic manner. May I ask you to pretty please edit to remove political references and analogies?


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> It's not really fair of us to tell her what he will feel.


It was suggested by the OP that he may not like it; she very clearly says that she's not into it. I understand couples are free to explore and whatever, but she doesn't want that. We're all free to speculate, many responses on here are pure speculation...so, what are you talking about? It's up to her to find out for sure anyway by asking him again, I would think that's a given.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

StarFires said:


> Oldshirt, I didn't want to quote your entire post, so I just snipped the first line to indicate which post of yours I'm talking about.
> 
> I categorically disagree with this post, and I'm severely offended by it. I also don't appreciate you using this subject matter to disseminate your political views and opinions on the General Discussion Forum in an entirely unrelated topic in such an opportunistic manner. May I ask you to pretty please edit to remove political references and analogies?


I certainly didn’t mean to offend anyone, nor was I trying to indicate that either one persuasion is fundamentally better or worse than the other. They are simply two different trains of thought. 

It’s just an analogy that was swirling through my brain at that particular moment. 

None of us are therapists or counselors or shrinks. None of us are political analysts either. 

We are just a bunch of ordinary citizens on a relationship website offering our own individual thoughts, opinions, perspectives and experiences free of charge. 

If I have unknowingly violated a website rule, the mods can delete it with the push of a button and put me in TAM jail if they see fit. 

Otherwise it is just some guy’s musings like every other post on this site. 

We are not all going to agree on everything. If everyone was always in agreement with everything, this site would not even exist and neither would counselors, therapists or shrinks. (Or political analysts for that matter.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

GC1234 said:


> It was suggested by the OP that he may not like it; we're all free to speculate, many responses on here are pure speculation...so, what are you talking about? It's up to her to find out for sure anyway by asking him again, I would think that's a given.


I was simply pointing out that his reply of,”I don’t know how I’ll feel...” is an honest, accurate and fair statement. At this point in time neither of them even can know for sure how they will feel.

That is something that is on them to discuss and possibly explore and experiment if they choose to go that route. 

Some people will be willing to discuss, explore and experiment with how they will feel.

Others are not willing.

They will need to determine what will be the best course of action for them.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

How much sex do you two have each week? Is it the same kind every time? Are you playful? What kind of experience is he having? And are you aware that sex is usually a man's top need in a marriage?


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Oh brother. Here we go with the just do it mantra. Was wondering when that would happen. No woman gets away unscathed.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

StarFires said:


> I know a few like that too, and I'm sure we both admire those marriages.....from afar. We can't have any idea what those couples went through over their many years of marriage. Had Daisyifyoudo never come here, you wouldn't know her and her husband existed or anything about their struggle going on right now. And didn't Diceplayer testify to the same thing and credit his wife for saving their marriage? He doesn't say how long they have been married, but we would both probably add them to our rolls as another example of one of the happy longevity couples if we knew them. All outsiders can do is look over their fence and think their grass is greener and their whole lives have been wonderful and problem-free. How could you narrowly presume to know what any party of all those couples ever thought, felt, did or didn't want to do at any point on any day of their lives together? You also couldn't know if one or more of them ever did go through with cheating on their spouse in search of better or more frequent sexual satisfaction. You can only know what you think you see, which is that whatever they went through - because every couple goes through something - they have come out the other end and survived just like Diceplayer and his wife. Had he never shared his story, you wouldn't know about their struggle either.


No these are people I know well.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

bobert said:


> I agree with this, and I'll add... @Diana7 I assume you and your ex-husband were virgins when you married, yes? And I assume you met when you were on the younger side. You got divorced... So just because _some _of those marriages _seem to _work out well clearly doesn't mean they all do.
> 
> I know two couples who have been together since their teen years and didn't date anyone else, in both marriages one spouse cheated with one other person. Very few people know about either incident and both couples lie about it. One couple, the husband wanted kids and the wife kept pushing it off, they don't have kids and they lie that they never wanted them. The other couple dated for like 20 years before getting married, they said they wanted to wait, saved money, etc. in reality it was because of infidelity. So to many they are such great couples, so cute, etc. in reality... eh, not so much.
> 
> Hell, even my parents have been together since they were teens and, as far as I know, they are each other's one and only. Yes, they are still together but they separated several times during my childhood (which they hid from people), they fought plenty, my dad was an ass and took years and years to sort his **** out, etc. They are still together and are happy now (or so it seems) but it wasn't an easy road getting there.


Our marriage ended after 25 years due to things not connected at all to our ages when we married. I have 2 good friends from that time, both married their spouses age 19 as I did, both had been each others one and only, still both very happily married more than 40 years later. 
Honestly neither my now husband or I have slept around, he for example has only ever had sex with his first wife and myself in marriage, neither of us feels that we have missed out on anything. I would regret it if I had had many partners knowing what I do now.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

oldshirt said:


> These parties here are not neutral. Many of the people here are here because they have had infidelity or some other kind of trauma in their past and any mention of anything that is not completely monogamous in nature sets off alarm bells and has everyone running for the zombie shelter


For me, it’s very different if OP posted they were both into the idea and asking suggestions of how to make a non-traditional marriage work; but that’s not how I read this scenario.


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## misschris85 (Aug 22, 2020)

In a way, there is no way for any of us to be completely neutral. Our opinions are shaped by our experiences but that doesn't mean we can't still provide assistance or help based on what we've been through. Yes, each couples' experience is unique and we don't always know what every couple is going through since not everyone shares every detail of their lives. But, it is still part of gathering information and understanding all the potential risks.

As mentioned, my ex and I dabbled in it and it did not work out for us. We had existing intimacy issues and he did take a long time to try and convince me to do it (and I did do it, because I truly thought it might help). This is why I caution you about going this route. Any issues you guys have needs to be resolved before you attempt to do this. 

There were couples who were swinging that we talked to or saw who have been in the lifestyle for awhile. The key things that they talked about was basically communication and trust. Everything must be laid out. Ground rules set and you must follow those rules. There cannot be any leeway in whether or not follow the rules. And honestly, quite a few of them indicated that they do not recommend this lifestyle for people who do have existing issues.

You can go and talk to people in the lifestyle to understand how it works and what their experiences are. It's all data gathering and making sure that it is something you want to do. 

I don't advocate for one lifestyle or the other. To each his own. I can only share with you what my experience was dabbling in this. 

Ultimately, you make the decision whether or not to do this. And, it needs to be something YOU want to do and not because he wants you to do it.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

misschris85 said:


> If there are any (and I mean any) issues in your marriage as it relates to sex and intimacy, I highly discourage you from doing an open marriage.....This is why I caution you about going this route. Any issues you guys have needs to be resolved before you attempt to do this.....There were couples who were swinging that we talked to or saw who have been in the lifestyle for awhile.....And honestly, quite a few of them indicated that they do not recommend this lifestyle for people who do have existing issues.


I'm wondering if there is some mistranslation of the subject between the OP and you and some of the other respondents. I might be wrong, but it sounds like you and Oldshirt and perhaps a few others are talking about swinging, which is participating together. But Daisyifyoudo is talking about open marriage, which would be individual experiences. Her husband's suggestion is so that he can cheat with her permission and she can ostensibly do the same if she wants. He didn't suggest they swing together with other people or other couples.

I recall in the past I have suggested open marriage to one or two posters whose spouses refused to have sex with them or will only have sex 4 or 5 times a year, so I'm not entirely against the idea for people who want to maintain the marriage but also get laid as nature demands. After all, there are couples where one of the parties experience an accident or an illness that renders them unable to ever perform again. The marriage and their love for each other don't have to end. When I was a kid, my mom had a good friend whose husband became a quadriplegic. She pledged her love and that she was never going to leave him. He told her he wouldn't mind if she needed to be with other men, and that's what she did. I was only 9 but I had a crush on one of her boyfriends. That was mostly because he would always make up some kind of game for us to play so he could let me win all his money. Yeah, I really kinda liked that dude LOL. So she had boyfriends, but she remained married and she and their daughters took care of him until he died 12 or 13 years later.

Illness and accidents happen sometimes. It also happens sometimes that one spouse determines for themselves that they don't want to be intimate in that way anymore but when that is the case, I think it's wrong to dictate another person's sex life like that, so I think open marriage is a good option for them to consider in lieu of divorce when they don't want to divorce.

I rallied against open marriage in the OP's case because it's not about illness nor refusal. Their problem is common with probably millions of couples going through the same type of thing on some level, and it's been an issue for couples throughout history. Their issues can improve at least to some degree if they endeavor to work on them. But not getting what he wants as often as he wants is no excuse to so immaturely decide to defile the sanctity of their marriage.

And that brings me to your statements about martital issues. I'm sure you pointed it out several times because obviously OP and her husband do have issues. But to me, it seems every couple who do this type of thing - whether swinging, polygamy, open marriage, or whatever they call themselves doing - do, themselves, have existing issues. They broached the subject and decided to do it because they have at least one issue, which is that each other is not enough for one or both of them. Even if their circumstances otherwise are ideal, that is a marital intimacy issue right from the start because it became their motivating factor. When people give themselves the excuse that they just want to explore, it's simply not true because that's not what marriage is. People who want to explore sleeping around while married under the guise of some trendy terminology should, as someone else in this thread stated, just get divorced so they can lead the single lifestyle they obviously want to live.

Based on her post, it appears all her husband wants to do is corrupt his marriage, dishonor his wife, and dishonor himself so he can get as much sex as he wants. Their issues notwithstanding, open marriage should not be an option for such an inadequate and pathetic reason.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

StarFires said:


> I'm wondering if there is some mistranslation of the subject between the OP and you and some of the other respondents. I might be wrong, but it sounds like you and Oldshirt and perhaps a few others are talking about swinging, which is participating together. But Daisyifyoudo is talking about open marriage, which would be individual experiences. Her husband's suggestion is so that he can cheat with her permission and she can ostensibly do the same if she wants. He didn't suggest they swing together with other people or other couples.


Unfortunately she has not returned to elaborate any further on exactly what it was they were discussion and what his apparent agenda was. 

A lot of people tend to use the term "open marriage" somewhat generically indicating any form of consensual nonmonogamy vs a more narrow and specific defination indicating a system where each carries separate relationships and hook ups on their own. The OP hasn't indicated what form of nonmonogamy was brought up. 

I referenced swinging simply because that is what my experience was in. 

And I also want to point out that I have not said they should or should not open their marriage. 

I have said they should have open and honest discussions about it and put their interests, desires and boundaries and deal-breakers out on the table. 

Those boundaries and deal-breakers may be no 3rd parties in the bedroom.  

I believe all long term couples need to address how they are going to handle the normal and natural desires for variety even if the answer is ultimately no.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

heartsbeating said:


> For me, it’s very different if OP posted they were both into the idea and asking suggestions of how to make a non-traditional marriage work; but that’s not how I read this scenario.


My gut feeling is OP was probably feeling a bit threatened and maybe even a bit angry that her H brought it up and she was looking for people to tell her to shut it down immediately. 

I agree that there are red flags here that need to be addressed before any steps made towards opening the relationship in any manner (ie him talking with coworkers etc) 

If the OP is anything like my wife, she may not have even known that were options of sex outside of marriage and was a bit gobsmacked when he brought it up and has no idea of how to even discuss it or how to address it.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

*


daisyifyoudo said:



I trust him and don't fear he'll cheat, but it's annoying to me he seems to spend more time chatting with female co-workers than me (I know they're all friends and I have no issues with female friends as I've hung out with them as well).

Click to expand...

*Don't be so naive. You're saying *exactly* what just about EVERY betrayed wife before you has said - only to discover how wrong she was.

Right now, he's doing what I call "dancing around the pit." He's flirting with the idea of spreading those wings but hopefully hasn't taken the plunge. I say 'hopefully' because honestly, none of us but him know whether he's already crossed the line. And unless you've been surgically attached to him at the hip and can see everythign he does every single second of every single day, you can only assume you know.

*



We looked into therapists, and saw one 2-3 times but the out-of-pocket pay was costly. Sex therapists are even more so.

Click to expand...

*What he's feeling is biological. There isn't a therapist on this earth who's going to use their mumbo jumbo on him to magically make him lose his desire to be with other women. Truth is, he committed way too young and now he's regretting it because he didn't get to experience what most young men his age do. It's simply a case of "act in haste, repent at leisure."

This is one of the* biggest* reasons why tying a guy (or girl) down at 19 is disastrous. Because sooner or later, they're going to want to know what they've been missing.

This isn't your fault or anything you did. But I don't see it magically just disappearing, either.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CatholicDad said:


> I think hubby needs help. He’s left reality and become lost in the fantasy world of porn... so sorry. Not good father material in the place he’s in.
> 
> I’d try to get him into a church and pondering eternity versus his spending time thinking how he can turn marital intimacy into a circus act.
> 
> I’d add that you should ask hubby if he is willing to raise any children created during the open marriage... perhaps especially if you find a man with superior genetic qualities to his (smarter, taller, better looking).


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Dadto2 said:


> *There is no such thing as an open marriage*. You are either committed entirely to your spouse or you need to divorce so one/both can live the single life. You need to make this very clear. You would be a fool for allowing it. Like others have said, bringing someone else into your marriage never, ever works out. It will only destroy your marriage.


And this is where you are wrong. You don't get to define a marriage for other people any more than they get to define it for you. Not all of us had "forsaking all others" and "till death do us part" in our vows. We defined our own marriages for how we are. We can love multiple adults as we can love multiple offspring. Having extra children does not mean less love for the preceding ones, nor does having additional significant others.

That doesn't mean such a situation is what the OP wants or can handle. But open marriages can and do exist. I have been in a successful one for over 20 years, and ours is not the longest one I am aware of. And 20 years is more successful than a large number of monogamous marriages.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

daisyifyoudo said:


> Hi all, I'm hoping to get some advice from neutral third parties as it's hard to talk to RL friends/family about intimate things. For a little background, my husband and I are in our thirties and have been married for 7 years, together for 11. We were both virgins. My husband's a few years younger and was 19 when we were exclusively dating.
> 
> He wanted to know my opinion on open marriages and felt in some ways he's missing out as we were a couple when he was quite young. He phrased he likes attention from people, especially the opposite sex, i.e. flirting. We had an honest discussion but I personally don't desire an open marriage while I feel he's more open to the idea.
> 
> ...


@oldshirt pretty much has the idea of it. Open marriages, swinging and/or poly can be very rewarding things, but they are not fixes to marriages with problems already. If you go into this, do so because you think might enjoy it, even if you have doubts. Don't do it for him, and especially don't do it to save the marriage.


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## daisyifyoudo (Aug 27, 2020)

Sorry, my inbox usually pings when I received replies and I hadn't gotten any lately so I thought it was quiet!

So his conversation that prompted my post was 'maybe we can have a discussion on opinions of open marriages.' So we discussed and that was it, he said he wasn't suggesting it only that he wanted the conversation. I believe it was on his mind which is why he wanted the discussion but I'm just repeating what he said. I asked a couple of days later if we needed to do something about any attractions to other people to which his reply was 'no. I'm not going to cheat on you, if that's what you're asking and there's no one who I have an emotional connection to more than you, I'm just a pervert and a man so...'

And someone asked about our sex habits and I can't view the post with this ad in the middle of the screen. I did answer more in my last response. Sex is 2-3 times a week. We have several toys, tie-downs, but seldom use them because they do nothing for me. I tried to be open minded with things like anal but did not like it so we don't do that. I do and get oral and we try a lot of positions. So while I feel like we aren't wild people, I also feel like we aren't church mice either. I purchased Cosmo's 365 Naughty Nights cards and we just started going through those.


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## daisyifyoudo (Aug 27, 2020)

He just called from work to say hi and chit-chat and said he'd like to go to a therapist and to help him find one if I could.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

daisyifyoudo said:


> [He] said he'd like to go to a therapist and to help him find one if I could.


So, if he wants to see an individual therapist then he needs to take charge and do that himself. If he can't even be bothered to find his own therapist then he sure won't be bothered to do the work.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

daisyifyoudo said:


> We have several toys, tie-downs, but seldom use them because they do nothing for me. I tried to be open minded with things like anal but did not like it so we don't do that.


Ok this sounds like he's interested in several kinks. If you think that it is something that he's going to continue to want, I can provide advice on that (I am an instructor in the local community), but I'm not going to possibility thread jack if you think that stage is over.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

daisyifyoudo said:


> So his conversation that prompted my post was 'maybe we can have a discussion on opinions of open marriages.' So we discussed and that was it, he said he wasn't suggesting it only that he wanted the conversation. I believe it was on his mind which is why he wanted the discussion but I'm just repeating what he said. I asked a couple of days later if we needed to do something about any attractions to other people to which his reply was 'no.* I'm not going to cheat on you, if that's what you're asking and there's no one who I have an emotional connection to more than you, I'm just a pervert and a man so...*'


I take this as an indication he may be involved in porn and his eyes wander a bit. And he wonders. And it could be an admission that he needs help. I think it's a positive thing.


daisyifyoudo said:


> He just called from work to say hi and chit-chat and said he'd like to go to a therapist and to help him find one if I could.





bobert said:


> So, if he wants to see an individual therapist then he needs to take charge and do that himself. If he can't even be bothered to find his own therapist then he sure won't be bothered to do the work.


I read this very differently from @bobert ; I think he'd like to be as transparent and open as possible. If you help pick the therapist, it opens up conversations down the road with fewer notions of privacy.

Speaking of privacy. Yet another opening for my second-most-common thought when I read posts here. The need for continuing discussions of privacy and boundaries. A lot of relationships get into trouble because a more-open & truthful person makes assumptions their partner is the same, when in fact that less-open partner may be taking advantage of the situation. And boundaries. Yes, even the obvious stuff should be discussed, and it might help that you establish things that are concrete and revisited on a regular basis. Boundaries are not lines drawn in the sand. Or shouldn't be.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

StarFires said:


> Oh brother. Here we go with the just do it mantra. Was wondering when that would happen. No woman gets away unscathed.


(Not sure if this is a threadjack or relevant to the role of sex in a relationship? If threadjack, I'm fine with deletion. I'll even alert the mods myself.). The problem is that "just do it" is not the answer to taking responsibility for some of the sexual relationship. Any wife or husband subscribing to "just do it" is likely to resent "it" in the long run. But needing to find a way to do it, that makes sense, without the scorn of the "no woman gets away unscathed" emotive, is a very tough point to get across. We conflate too many things.

I'll go further. A woman who thinks it's in her best interest to say "OK, I'm ready for you, I'll spread my legs and you can have sex" is doing the worst thing imaginable. Providing "sex" without the interactive experience that a relationship ought to have. If the husband wants more "sex" it's available, with the same enthusiasm, maybe more, through porn. Of an affair.

Yet it "should be" a part of a loving relationship. Either partner withholding sex because it's not on their greatest hits list, while it is for their partner, is in a troubled relationship. The LD partner (and I still hate the term LD as if it's an illness or something that can't be changed) should, assuming it is an otherwise strong and loving relationship, look for a way to find some degree of pleasure in doing something the other finds very high value in. This does not mean offering yourself up as a piece of meat. And if sex is basically something one has an aversion to, this should be communicated clearly and with the understanding that it could very well be a relationship killer.

So if you don't "do it" and it means divorce, the answer is not to "just do it" but, if one wishes to stay in the relationship, find a way that having sex with your partner is not a chore, not something you'll ever resent, even though a requirement. Unfortunately, for many, that will still come across as saying the LD partner has to "just do it".


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