# A dangerous man or?



## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

Granted any man can be dangerous. I'm talking a different category.
A little background. 
I observe people. Anyone I find interesting I attempt to talk to. 
I have been around hardcore ex military people, rangers, bikers, who have been in firefights, hand to hand life and death fights; martial artists, hardcore knife fighters/duelers with the scars to prove it; whole body nothing but scars even across the eyeball itself (another stand up dude.) (if anyone tried to jack my semi in his hood mention his name,and he had my back and no one would give me trouble): you name it. I've traveled 47 of the states and met many types.

Met the former president of the hells angels bikers when I was traveling in my early twenties. One of the most stand up honest people I ever met. Got someone to take us to get a new tire, and a place to stay the night at no charge while waiting on the repair.

Met and befriended others many were afraid to even talk to, and you knew from looking at them didn't care and could, and would destroy someone; Men who would knock a stranger for a loop for eyeballing them too long. Some of them even LEO didn't want to talk to I go to know, but never felt in danger, or threatened.

I thought I was used to all types of people.

I still saw humanity in them. Treat them with respect as a fellow human and you had nothing to worry about.

To the point. It has bugged me since last summer been trying to pinpoint what was so different.

We had pulled into a store parking lot, 2 bikers pulled up in front of the store and my internal sensors were screaming danger. Told my wife something was wrong. 

These 2 men were in a totally different category of any I have come across in almost 50yrs. They moved differently, acted differently. 
We watched them for a bit. They were always moving in a way one could see behind the other while taking their gear off to go in the store. And they were watching each others backs. Not obviously so, but noticeable. They were an obvious team.

They were interesting enough I would normally go up and talk to them, but something was missing in the both of them, and my wife was with me, my vehicle obvious and unique, so I didn't. The best way I can describe it is they lacked what seemed to be any semblance of humanity. Stone cold killers best I can describe them.

The knife fighter mentioned was stone cold, but he never set off my alarms. He still had something the other 2 lacked. 
Question is; have you ever seen a man your internal alarms tell you you don't want them ever knowing your face, where you, and your family live, or anything about you?

Or a truly, perhaps, deadly man?


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

Thankfully, no. The worst I've come across is "creepy". People that just felt weird, or off somehow.

But I don't recall anyone ever making me feel like I was in danger. Carrying a gun does remove a level of fear in your interactions with unknown strangers, so I guess it's possible that may have something to do with it.


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

Absolutely. They are unavoidable in certain walks of life. Thats all ancient history now though. But I do know that feeling. It's one that screams "time to make an exit"


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## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Absolutely. They are unavoidable in certain walks of life. Thats all ancient history now though. But I do know that feeling. It's one that screams "time to make an exit"


Yes sir. Very much like that.


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

I've run across a few in my life. Then there's the ones with the better facades that alot of us pass by every day. I think the general estimate is that 1% of the population are psychopaths.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

red oak said:


> Question is; have you ever seen a man your internal alarms tell you you don't want them ever knowing your face, where you, and your family live, or anything about you?
> 
> Or a truly, perhaps, deadly man?


Yep. One was the guy who walked up to me when I was coming home from work on night. I saw him coming towards me about 2-3 houses down the street. My initial reaction was to run... absolute fear. I talked myself out of it. He then walked up to me as I was getting out of my car and started strangling me and dragging me to an empty field across the street. I was screaming and thank goodness some neighbors hear me and came out to see what was going on. With that he ran off.

I've seen and/or met a few others. Sometimes I wonder if these people send out pheromones that our bodies pick up on because the warning we get is loud and clear.


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## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

EleGirl said:


> Yep. One was the guy who walked up to me when I was coming home from work on night. I saw him coming towards me about 2-3 houses down the street. My initial reaction was to run... absolute fear. I talked myself out of it. He then walked up to me as I was getting out of my car and started strangling me and dragging me to an empty field across the street. I was screaming and thank goodness some neighbors hear me and came out to see what was going on. With that he ran off.
> 
> I've seen and/or met a few others. *Sometimes I wonder if these people send out pheromones that our bodies pick up on because the warning we get is loud and clear.*


Damn. And you still get out by yourself?

Interesting thought. 
My dogs would probably say yes. 
I think that was one of the few days I didn't have a dog with me.

ETA: It's definitely something. Sometimes I call it a vibe.

If we did have a dog with us it was probably our female who is a little friendly, because I think our male would have been trying to break the glass as he has when tweakers have gotten to close.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

red oak said:


> Granted any man can be dangerous. I'm talking a different category.
> A little background.
> I observe people. Anyone I find interesting I attempt to talk to.
> I have been around hardcore ex military people, rangers, bikers, who have been in firefights, hand to hand life and death fights; martial artists, hardcore knife fighters/duelers with the scars to prove it; whole body nothing but scars even across the eyeball itself (another stand up dude.) (if anyone tried to jack my semi in his hood mention his name,and he had my back and no one would give me trouble): you name it. I've traveled 47 of the states and met many types.
> ...


Funny the early part of your post had me thinking, geez those are the people I would go TO if I needed help.


There were 2 people I thought were truly dangerous when I was much, much younger. There was nothing I could point to. But there was something ... missing... in their eyes. Scared the crap out of me.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

I have met one adult like this, and it was chilling. But I have to say the most frightening experience with regard to this topic is when I was a teacher and encountered a 3rd grade child who was like this period it was indescribable. He was absolutely dead inside cama a true sociopath. And I never label likely.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

There is a book a friend told me about a number of years ago, called "The Gift of Fear".

I've always believed it is an extraordinarily important skill to be able to recognize danger, especially in those that don't fit into the mold of where you would generally expect it. Years ago I used to work with troubled kids. It was both heartbreaking and terrifying to think the 13 year old you were dealing with was already a sociopath, and it was highly likely they were going to harm or victimize as they grew into adulthood rather than heal and become well adjusted. Lot of rough stories there.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

I think sometimes we lose track of the fact that we are indeed animals, therefore we do have instincts that kick in when we arent even paying attention or realize what is happening. It is of the utmost importance that we listen when that instinct kicks in about another person we encounter. Yes I have had that "oh hell no" kick in upon just looking at someone... its a sickening feeling, and I avoided them completely.. tried to stay out of their field of vision. Luckily I have never had anything happen to me like Elegirl did... yikes!


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## VermiciousKnid (Nov 14, 2017)

Were they two wild and crazy guys?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Some, I respect to this day. Some are punks. Some are best avoided. 

Had a run in with a punk and his club members at a bar. Regular club members didn't have a great deal of respect for those guys. 

Know two higher ranking individuals whom I fear and respect. I don't know them well. I was introduced and had short conversations with them. 

Have been around a few of those who were best avoided. 

Had a friend(very low ranking club member) who was nutty and could be quite dangerous, as he nearly stabbed me during a fight where he did not need a knife. For me, it was fisticuffs, a fight where you shake hands after, but he was deadly serious. Probably psychotic or something. 

Gut feelings are important for survival. 

Frightening story, @EleGirl. ((hug))


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

red oak said:


> Granted any man can be dangerous. I'm talking a different category.
> A little background.
> I observe people. Anyone I find interesting I attempt to talk to.
> I have been around hardcore ex military people, rangers, bikers, who have been in firefights, hand to hand life and death fights; martial artists, hardcore knife fighters/duelers with the scars to prove it; whole body nothing but scars even across the eyeball itself (another stand up dude.) (if anyone tried to jack my semi in his hood mention his name,and he had my back and no one would give me trouble): you name it. I've traveled 47 of the states and met many types.
> ...


The fact that you think the president of the HA is a nice guy, is totally weird. I know a lot of these guys, and yeah, they can be nice people, if you are not on their bad side. But you know that he is not really a nice guy.

I dated a VP's (Of another club) niece a few years back, thank god we ended nicely, it just did not work so cool. 

If that had ended badly, I could very well be a dead man. I did not know this before I dated her, or I don't think I would have gone there. 

I have some experience with this... What you saw were enforcers, STONE COLD KILLERS. I have seen them, I have met them, and I know the feeling. 

Scared the **** out of me. 

Men like the ones you describe have no soul, they are evil people, not just your standard criminals. 

Some people don't notice, and some people have a 6th sense, like you and me. I can pick people like this out of a hundreds of people, I can feel them. I have had it confirmed to me many times. 

I don't know why I am like this, but I am. I has saved me from lots of trouble in my life.

But when you feel that "evil", it is a horrible, horrible, scary feeling...


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## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

BluesPower said:


> The fact that you think the president of the HA is a nice guy, is totally weird. I know a lot of these guys, and yeah, they can be nice people, if you are not on their bad side. But you know that he is not really a nice guy.
> 
> I dated a VP's (Of another club) niece a few years back, thank god we ended nicely, it just did not work so cool.
> 
> ...


The one I met was in the 1980's. His hard core was obvious but he was forthright, honest. 
Not the type just to hurt someone for fun.

The other 2 I mentioned I felt a tingling on back of my neck before I actually saw them.
Ive gotten that feeling before out in the woods and started looking around to find Mountain lions or wild boar watching me from a distance, never gotten that from a man's presence.

Enforcers is actually a word that came to mind when we were watching them. Odd.

I can relate.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

It can be difficult to tell. Think of how many times when a mass murderer is caught, all their neighbors talk about what a nice quiet person they were. 

There is a guy at my office who walks with a limp, otherwise seems a niece friendly guy. Turns out he is ex special-forces and the limp is from a combat injury long ago. You'd never guess from his demeanor.

There are the blustering sort of guys, but I suspect most of them are not that dangerous.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Sort of... I've had instincts kick in... where we lived at the time, walking home from work, I'd taken a slightly different route that day. Man was walking opposite side of the road, going downhill, I was walking uphill. I was about 15-20mins from home. I had a distinct feeling / shudder come over me that caused me to look back over my shoulder and saw him crossing over to also walk uphill. I veered back towards the main streets, checking every now and then, and yes, seems he was following me. I ducked into a store, walked the aisles for a bit, while keeping an eye on the entrance. I didn't see him and I was 2mins from home. I entered our building, quickly closed the door behind me so it auto-locked. I was waiting for the elevator, when he appeared, pleading and knocking from the outside to be let in, saying his friend lives there. I ignored him, got in the elevator and safely back to the apartment. Hubs was away at the time, I phoned him straight away, my heart pounding. Being friends with another couple on our floor, they invited me to dinner, I told them about it... described what he looked like.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

At a social event meeting new people, hubs described one as cold/distant, 'What's with the psychopath?' Very well dressed, displaying certain mannerisms, he related the vibe he got with Christian Bale's character in American Psycho.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I just vibrate right back and no one has wanted to play to date.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

I was in an elevator after leaving my lawyers office in NY, it’s a large practice with everything from criminal law,business,real estate,intellectual property etc. The firm had a couple of floors of office space in the building. 
The elevator went down one floor and when the door opened what looked like a gorilla in a suit peered in,then he stepped back and let a smaller guy enter. This guy looked like a walking corpse.He gave the impression that anything he touched would just wither and die. I swear there was a smelly of decay off him.
Not a word was spoken and when we got to the ground floor the gorilla had a good look around before letting any of us out of the elevator. 
I had never met a man who had this affect on me and I felt like I needed to shower straight away. 
I went to the bathroom and washed my hands before leaving and when I came out they were getting into what looked like an armored Hummer.
I rang my lawyer about an hour later about something we had been discussing and I casually mentioned the two men in the elevator,particularly the small one. He hesitated first and then said I was better off not knowing who they were but they wouldn’t be in the USA for long anyway.


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## MaiChi (Jun 20, 2018)

red oak said:


> Granted any man can be dangerous. I'm talking a different category.
> A little background.
> I observe people. Anyone I find interesting I attempt to talk to.
> I have been around hardcore ex military people, rangers, bikers, who have been in firefights, hand to hand life and death fights; martial artists, hardcore knife fighters/duelers with the scars to prove it; whole body nothing but scars even across the eyeball itself (another stand up dude.) (if anyone tried to jack my semi in his hood mention his name,and he had my back and no one would give me trouble): you name it. I've traveled 47 of the states and met many types.
> ...


I grew up during a war which lasted a good part of my life. I grew up to work for a refugee organisation. I was present when several women were publicly raped. They included one child of around 8 and one granny of 84. A young mother had a loaded Kalashnikov inserted in her vagina. Several men were flogged. 

That is one I can see in my mind all the time. There are many others

Dangerous people are everywhere.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

uhtred said:


> It can be difficult to tell. Think of how many times when a mass murderer is caught, all their neighbors talk about what a nice quiet person they were.
> 
> There is a guy at my office who walks with a limp, otherwise seems a niece friendly guy. Turns out he is ex special-forces and the limp is from a combat injury long ago. You'd never guess from his demeanor.
> 
> There are the blustering sort of guys, but I suspect most of them are not that dangerous.


These were my thoughts. Some of the most evil people come across as the most normal. Some of the most odd, weird seeming people are the nicest. 
Those who need to strut and bluster are probably fairly harmless and weak in real life. Otherwise why do they need to act that way?

I was watching a programme the other night about a women here in the UK who killed 2 men and nearly killed 2 others just because she liked killing. The two who miraculously survived despite being stabbed multiple times were just walking their dogs when she attacked them from behind. At the police station she was charming and flattering and you could see how she was wrapping them round her little finger. Yet she was a psychopath, with no conscience at all. She was laughing and joking and acting as if she had just ben given a parking ticket. 
At her trial she was one of only 3 women in the UK who was told that she would never get out of jail.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

MaiChi said:


> I grew up during a war which lasted a good part of my life. I grew up to work for a refugee organisation. I was present when several women were publicly raped. They included one child of around 8 and one granny of 84. A young mother had a loaded Kalashnikov inserted in her vagina. Several men were flogged.
> 
> That is one I can see in my mind all the time. There are many others
> 
> Dangerous people are everywhere.


Those men aren't dangerous. They are walking dead who are worthless. Men with guns who assault unarmed women and children are simply cockroaches that haven't been stepped on.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

BluesPower said:


> The fact that you think the president of the HA is a nice guy, is totally weird. I know a lot of these guys, and yeah, they can be nice people, if you are not on their bad side. But you know that he is not really a nice guy.
> 
> I dated a VP's (Of another club) niece a few years back, thank god we ended nicely, it just did not work so cool.
> 
> ...


 I knew a President of The Pagans who was, as @red oak said, a nice guy, ... as long as you didn't cross him, which wasn't hard to do unless you were his rival. He wasn't volatile, as a matter of fact, he was the opposite of that. He was also an intellectual and I had some great conversations with him. The good/bad with him was subjective. He wasn't a sociopath, they are just evil and if you've been around it you recognize it. I've been the guy who put the fear of God in some people before, and I think a lot of guys( there's some here) can be that guy if the right switches get flipped, but they're not sociopaths either, just guys with a hard boundary and a limited capacity for taking ****. The sociopaths are like juggling nitroglycerine, you may be able to defuse them with the right response and you may not. As @TheDudeLebowski said that's when it's time to exit before you have even been acknowledged.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Did you ever get a hint as to why? Why would people make themselves look noticeable to potential enemies by moving in a defensive fashion when in a safe environment. 

Serious dangerous people, or posers. Difficult to tell. 






red oak said:


> Granted any man can be dangerous. I'm talking a different category.
> A little background.
> snip
> 
> ...


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## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

uhtred said:


> Did you ever get a hint as to why? Why would people make themselves look noticeable to potential enemies by moving in a defensive fashion when in a safe environment.
> 
> Serious dangerous people, or posers. Difficult to tell.


They weren't posers.
Their behavior wouldn't have been obvious to most. I'm usually fairly good on SA. Having studied, and observed body language for so long perhaps it alerts me to certain things. I don't know.

Working as a bouncer years ago for a short time allowed good study parameters, a glance at a fellow over my shoulder once made me spin, and go after him without thinking. Not sure so much it was his body language or just a feeling.

He was packing, and looking for his wife. Thank goodness his wife wasn't there as it probably saved me, and innocent bystanders getting hurt. He had the intention in his demeanor, he was armed, did reach for the 9mm, realized it wasn't his wife in the corner and dropped his arm a second before I reached him, and he kept walking I followed him until he hit the front door. Then went to confront the other reportedly armed fellow in the building. 
To this day I have no idea what tipped me off on the guy.
The obviously dense door person told me they let him in because he was worried and trying to find his wife and thought she might be there with a "friend"!!! (Face palm) Stories I could tell about cheating, people, tourists, and male bravado from the short time I worked there. . Oh MY! :laugh:



> Owners, and other bouncers were.... We got your back man. yeah you sure do. From 30 feet BACK by a door so you could jump behind it ya cowardly asses,
> Proved my estimation of you all as not dependable, and the accolades of a coward means nothing.
> Act like a bad ass but stand back from real chance of trouble yet have no problem beating on a drunk crippled man who can't use his legs simply because he mouthed off at you, and me having to rip y'all off him.
> Every time I think about that night I get mad having to rip "fellow" bouncers off a crippled man. Poor guy thought I was trying to hurt him too, and knocked the* hell* out of me with one of his specialty crutches. Those things hurt.
> ...


I had a feeling like I have gotten if a predatory animal is watching me in the woods seconds before I saw those guys. When I did see them bells went off full force.

I will say they were part of a MC listed as an outlaw gang, have had many arrests of members for drug trafficking, and we are way out of their normal turf so they may not have been in a safe environment. Not really sure how that works with clubs.

Like I said I have seen, and used to being around rough/dangerous people. Those guys were in a totally different class.
Enforcers was a word that came to mind while watching them.

ETA: A little TMI, but I guess I never really got that off my chest, and needed to rant it out.


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## Rocinante67 (May 9, 2019)

All of us have an intuitive radar for dangerous men. Too many of us inadvertently train, or allow, ourselves to perpetually ignore that intuition. It's funny, if you live in a "safe" place you can get complacent, even though you are in danger more often than you think. But if I took you into the jungle where there are man-eating predators, you'd bloody well pay attention to your intuition. 

Also, the most dangerous men I know never had to convince me of it.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

No, not really. I have had a loaded (far as I know) gun in my face three times as part of my jobs behind the counters of convenience stores open way too late during my college years, and even none of them seemed to be the kind who would just hurt or kill me for sport. I helped put one of them behind bars. 

But I don't generally walk around worrying too much about those types. The complacency you get from not being attacked every day is real - I'll spend my time worrying more about the things that are actually likely to kill me - like my car, my motorcycle, my diet and exercise.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Me. I make people nervous.

Apparently it is because I have cold, hard eyes.

I attribute this to the fact that I am very myopic and squint as as a result.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

I've only met two people (both men) who had what we call 'shark eyes'. When they look at you, your blood runs cold. True fear.


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

MattMatt said:


> Me. I make people nervous.
> 
> Apparently it is because I have cold, hard eyes.
> 
> I attribute this to the fact that I am very myopic and squint as as a result.


I've ever found it in the eyes. I always notice mannerisms more than looks. Maybe that's just the stuff I associated with danger. You can look like anything and be an absolute sweetheart or cold blooded killer. Its never been about the look or build of a person. Its not even the words really. Because I say some messed up stuff in jest all the time. Many people I know do too. EMS are the worst btw. Darkest senses of humor you will ever come across, to the point where you wonder if its even humor sometimes. Comes with the job obviously as a coping mechanism. 

Anyway, it's always been some other thing and I can only narrow it down to mannerisms. Some people just put off a creepy vibe. Some people put off a meek vibe. Nothing to do with what they say or what they look like either. Its just something that you pick up on. 

My wife could back this up btw, when Jared Fogle first became subway spokesman, I told my wife I hated that guy. I would not eat another subway sandwich until he was gone. I insisted something wasn't right about him when she pressed. "I dont know what it is, I hate that guy! I don't know why even, but that guy is a piece of ****!" She called me ridiculous for years. It became a joke in our house. You know white elephant people get gift cards and crap for exchange. I got a subway giftcard, came home and said "I'm throwing this away unless you want it" she gave me hell for YEARS about Jared and Subway. I always knew. I just freaking knew something wasn't right with that guy. Nothing to do with how he looks, or talks, or anything like that. There's just something else there that I picked up on, I just didn't know what it was until the news broke. All I knew was he was a piece of ****. From the second I laid eyes on him I knew. 

Now reverse that, there's times I feel completely comfortable in situations where I'm around, let's call them less than savory people, where others would feel very nervous, tense, uneasy, or even fearful. Yeah, don't put your phone down around these folks because it will get stolen, but you're not in any danger at all unless you do something stupid. 

Squint like Eastwood all you want, doesn't bother me.


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## iamoookkkk (Jun 2, 2019)

I really think that ypu should have a serious talk with yourself and tru to change something in your life!!


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