# Respect women popular topic, respect men not so much



## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Interesting article. This guy articles he's written about men respecting women are very popular but articles he's written about women respecting men "isn’t quite so palatable for many people.". 

Granted it could be how he defines respect for each but I think he's got a point or two. He blames our culture. For one thing look at the stereotype of men on TV over the past couple of decades. Where did Mr Clever, Mr Brady, and Charles Ingles go? 

Your husband doesn't have to earn your respect | The Matt Walsh Blog

What do women think? Does our culture need to change?


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## MissBrittB87 (Mar 15, 2013)

I have actually thought for a while that respect for men has gone way down hill-every husband in a sitcom is a dufus and married to a smart, pretty wife. I hear "men are pigs" and "men are stupid" alot-but if the same was said about women, I don't think it would be glossed over.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Absolutely our culture needs to change.

I have seen so many commercials where the husband is portrays as a complete moron while the wife is the king of the world. It enrages me!


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## Nikita2270 (Mar 22, 2014)

I notice this a lot in commercials....where the woman is domineering and talking-down to a man who they portray as having the intelligence of a dead hamster. I seriously hate the stereotype that women know everything and men aren't capable of cooking, or raising their children, or handling any housework.

I was in a furniture store a while back where this woman was berating her husband in public and treating him with total disrespect like he was a moron. She made eye contact with me and made this facial gesture of rolling her eyes like I was supposed to understand how difficult it is to deal with men. 

I just shook my head and walked away.

If I ever spoke to my partner like that...I hope he leaves me because I certainly wouldn't deserve to keep him.

I literally detest the sound of a nagging woman. If I was a man and married to a woman who engaged in berating or nagging me, I'd divorce her so fast her pinhead would spin.

I really hate gender stereotypes.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I personally give no respect to any person of any gender unless they've earned it from me.

I do give a baseline amount of respect to strangers (as in, I will say "hello" if passing someone on a sidewalk or hold the door for anyone I see who needs help, and I will give an assumption of goodwill toward anyone, I smile and nod when people acknowledge my presence, etc) but this doesn't go very far. When it comes to direct dealings with people, they get my baseline of respect only, until they've earned more.

Many people don't deserve my respect.

Many do.

I get to decide who is in each group and I decide it based on their behavior toward me.

Having said that, I'd never marry a man I didn't respect so it can be assumed that I respect my husband a lot.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Check out this blog and list of commercials. Third one down I first saw in TV and was so angry I could continue watching TV. 


How the hell do the get away with this?

Stupid Man Commercials


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

MissBrittB87 said:


> I have actually thought for a while that respect for men has gone way down hill-every husband in a sitcom is a dufus and married to a smart, pretty wife. I hear "men are pigs" and "men are stupid" alot-but if the same was said about women, I don't think it would be glossed over.


:iagree:

I asked a while back in the social section for shows that actually portray a smart, loving(etc.) husband, and couldn't really find any. It's really sad. I'd rather my husband see a show that portrays men in a better light, since, for a while, I felt like he was "learning" from a show we were watching on how to be an a$$.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

And look at all the Facebook, Twitter, other social media meme's...the vast majority are about how women "deserve" to be treated simply because they have a vagina, what women should expect from their man, how a good man, a real man treats a woman...nt so much in the other direction...


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

MissBrittB87 said:


> I have actually thought for a while that respect for men has gone way down hill-every husband in a sitcom is a dufus and married to a smart, pretty wife. I hear "men are pigs" and "men are stupid" alot-but if the same was said about women, I don't think it would be glossed over.


There are a few shows that don't show either gender in the best light. That would be boring I guess. But there's a definite trend of angry, disappointed women and confused goofy men with deer in the headlight eyes.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> I personally give no respect to any person of any gender unless they've earned it from me.
> 
> I do give a baseline amount of respect to strangers (as in, I will say "hello" if passing someone on a sidewalk or hold the door for anyone I see who needs help, and I will give an assumption of goodwill toward anyone, I smile and nod when people acknowledge my presence, etc) but this doesn't go very far. When it comes to direct dealings with people, they get my baseline of respect only, until they've earned more.
> 
> ...


I agree completely. I just have a feeling young men and women are being ill equipped to understand the starting baseline of respect. They've been bombarded with virtual reality so it may seem normal for her to be eye rolling and him not knowing to be pissed about it. That's what they've both grown up watching.

Maybe? I don't know. I don't think our subconscious always understands that virtual isn't real.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I just don't watch any shows like that, so it is hard for me to even consider them as part of reality either.


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## coffee4me (Feb 6, 2013)

I think the message is not just sent through media. Many of the young men I know get it loud and clear at home. 

They see their mothers roll their eyes at their fathers and discredit their opinions. You read it here on this board how the wife will discredit the husband when it comes to disciplining children. 

I know a lot of mothers that refer to theirs sons as irresponsible, careless and unable to think for themselves. These are young men who will in 2 short years be legal adults and this is how you refer to your own son?! Really? 

So if the kid heard his own mother speak to his father and him like this , it will probably be expected from his wife.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

I'm curious...do many men feel like they themselves are treated like morons in their daily lives? 

Do you feel like you're treated with disrespect as a man?


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

norajane said:


> I'm curious...do many men feel like they themselves are treated like morons in their daily lives?
> 
> Do you feel like you're treated with disrespect as a man?


Not in a lot of years but yes I let it happen when I was young. It's probably why this article was interesting to me. I was a smart guy, socially as well as IQ but that went to h3ll once I got married the first time. Anyway my first marriage I fell apart after a few years which is a good thing. Afterwards I was disgusted with the crap I let happen and how I responded. Allowing disrespect due to fear of being alone, or of failure at marriage, or fear of my kids blaming me for their broken home.

Really I got lucky by not knowing any better. Me and my EX were never compatible. But I'm sure there are many couples that are compatible but they sabotage themselves by not setting boundaries they don't know they should set.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

This commercial is another example

Professional Women - AT&T TV Commercial 2014 - YouTube

I mean make it more obvious.


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## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

When the most famous TV sitcom Dad of the last 20+ years is Homer Simpson, well....


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## P51Geo1980 (Sep 25, 2013)

norajane said:


> I'm curious...do many men feel like they themselves are treated like morons in their daily lives?
> 
> Do you feel like you're treated with disrespect as a man?


*Professionally:* Absolutely not. I'm a male nurse, the women I work with LOVE having a male around. The reasons range from being physically stronger than most women on the floor and there's more calmness around when there is at least one male working. I have gotten nothing but respect from my coworkers.

*Married life:* I've written quite a bit about my STBXW in my own postings. Our issues boiled down to the fact that she never respected me. Early on in the relationship, when we were still dating, she began with the name calling..."moron," "idiot," "a-hole," etc. Once we got married, the nagging and eye-rolling began. At first it didn't bother me, but over the years it festered into resentment. Bottom line, she never respected me - something she learned from her mother - and it never got better, it only got worse for me. Things are better for me now that I've filed divorce but I still have some self-image issues. I've pretty much decided that I'm never going to fully let my guard down around any woman I'm in a relationship with again - it's just not worth it to me anymore. 

*Current relationship:* My girlfriend and I have had a couple conversations on this topic and she feels the same way as many of you do - disgusted by the way men are treated on TV. She brought up the point that if women were portrayed this way, every feminist organization would be up in arms, but if men complain we need to grow up. So far, she's shown me more respect than many people have, which is a great feeling to be with someone who actually likes and respects you!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

The commercials and shows are mostly made by men. So why are men doing this?


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## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

tom67 said:


> This commercial is another example
> 
> Professional Women - AT&T TV Commercial 2014 - YouTube
> 
> I mean make it more obvious.



Great example :iagree:


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

I find the best thing a family can do is, unplug the cable and allow mom and dads to actually be parents. I'm not blaming anyone in particular, but all too often parents just forget to be parents. I am not my sons' buddies, I am their dad and they know it. Same goes for my wife as mom. And, my son understands to respect his teachers as well as his football coaches. Love means equipping your kids with what they need not necessarily always what they want. 

Just my simple and humble opinion.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

norajane said:


> I'm curious...do many men feel like they themselves are treated like morons in their daily lives?
> 
> Do you feel like you're treated with disrespect as a man?


No, I don't feel that way at all and never have.

That said I've seen it, I have a sister-in-law who tends to treats her husband like a moron. Neither of them impress me though. He strikes me as a very weak and insipid individual. While she strikes me as a patronising, know it all (I am certain they're enjoying a sexless marriage).


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## ticktock33 (Jun 6, 2014)

I think it's absolutely true! There are SO many tv shows and commercials making men look like complete idiots. It's just normal practice, if the tables were turned there would be a storm the size of Texas. No one wants to hurt women, we are such delicate creatures and all men seem to be horrible and they must pay for it.

It should be equal, if men are going to be portrayed as idiots and the women come sweeping in cleaning up the mess. Then women should be too. Whatever you do to one side must be done to the other. 

I'm not sure about the husbands not having to earn respect, of course they do. But women also have to earn it, it goes both ways. Women are just as stupid as men sometimes. A little different, but still stupid. 

That being said, men should stand up for themselves and be the men that they want to be. Stop whining and complaining about it and do something about it if you don't like it.

I think men in the media are doing this because it's the pc thing to do. They don't want to hear from the feminist groups and fight them about it.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

Oh boo hoo. Men are making the shows, so they clearly don't think it hurts them.

Men can make those shows and commercials secure in the knowledge that it's pandering to women viewers but it not going to affect their standing in the actual real world.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

The article was good. Some thoughtful stuff.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

barbados said:


> When the most famous TV sitcom Dad of the last 20+ years is Homer Simpson, well....


What about Peter Griffin? Oh wait, that doesn't help.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Women are portrayed as nothing but a hot body or a cleaning cooking machine housewife in most commercials and many shows.
OR if they aren't one of the above they're a hard ass b*tchy manhater bad guy.

Men are portrayed as dippy helpless morons who can't even put their socks on by themselves or take care of their children alone. They can't cook a meal without destroying the kitchen.They stand at their grill like lobotomized zombies daydreaming about the latest new toy. 

A LOT of things need to change but it never will. We'll still keep watching and swallowing the same crap and the people who create this stuff will keep shoving the same junk down our throats.. 


Of course it's nothing new. Look at how dippy the husband's were in The Honeymooners. That's just one example.


Both genders lack respect for the other side more often than not. It's just shown in different ways. Seems the disrespect aimed at women is a lot more violent though,imo. 
Maybe that's why respect for men isn't a popular topic? I don't know.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

The commercials that really irritate me are the ones where the guy is so stupid he needs his 5 year old to tell him how it is. But it's true these commercials are made by men. The same men that make sitcom after sitcom with a flabby, bumbling guy with a hot wife. Never will you see a fat idiot woman with a hot hb. We all get degraded by the media.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Deejo said:


> The article was good. Some thoughtful stuff.


What did you like about it, Deejo?


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

They make the shows that way bc apparently it's every man's dream to have the hot wife no matter how stupid or out of shape he happens to be. Also,apparently the men making the shows feel men are entitled to have the amazing hot wife take care of them while they do nothing to be interesting,sexy,or even a good husband. It's all about what men are entitled to just for having a penis. 

Of COURSE the overweight dim girl isn't going to be have a hot husband. But if she lost some of that ass and got some intelligence they'd pair her with the overweight moron husband...she STILL isn't getting the hot guy


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

It's because they're all fat flabby guys who want hot wives.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> They make the shows that way bc apparently it's every man's dream to have the hot wife no matter how stupid or out of shape he happens to be.


That way the men will keep watching?


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## BradWesley (May 24, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> The commercials and shows are mostly made by men. So why are men doing this?


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

That's your answer!


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

Lyris said:


> Oh boo hoo. Men are making the shows, so they clearly don't think it hurts them.
> 
> Men can make those shows and commercials secure in the knowledge that it's pandering to women viewers but it not going to affect their standing in the actual real world.


Men are making the shows? Im pretty sure that women write these shows as well and that test audiences for things like food and appliance commercials are predominantly women because they control the majority of the purchases. I'm sure you've read the statistics about how women control more purchasing dollars overall than men. 

It's simple pandering for dollars. Doesn't matter who directs the show. It's the fact that these negative characterizations must be appealing to many women. They strike a chord. 

I agree that the disrespect in the media is a symptom, not a cause.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> The commercials and shows are mostly made by men. So why are men doing this?


And let's not forget that men are also lining up to play these roles.

If they don't like how they're portrayed, shouldn't they just stop?


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

The overwhelming majority of tv and film studio upper executives are men. It's the same with advertising. They're the ones making the decisions. 

And if it's all about money then it's pretty disingenuous to use something to your advantage on the one hand and wail about its injustice on the other.

In reality men know this kind of popular culture "disrespect" has exactly zero effect on the way men experience their lives. Men have more power than women and so can afford to be figures of fun to keep the money flowing.


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## BradWesley (May 24, 2013)

Lyris said:


> The overwhelming majority of tv and film studio upper executives are men. It's the same with advertising. They're the ones making the decisions.
> 
> And if it's all about money then it's pretty disingenuous to use something to your advantage on the one hand and wail about its injustice on the other.
> 
> In reality men know this kind of popular culture "disrespect" has exactly zero effect on the way men experience their lives. Men have more power than women and so can afford to be figures of fun to keep the money flowing.


cience

Who ever said that TV network and film studio executives have a conscience.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

We just watched couples retreat over the weekend and it was typical all flabby guys with hot wives they treat like crap. The fattest guy of all had a 20 year old gf and his wife (not fat or flabby) proclaimed her love for him at the end.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

always_alone said:


> And let's not forget that men are also lining up to play these roles.
> 
> If they don't like how they're portrayed, shouldn't they just stop?


There are very few actors, male or female, who can afford to turn down paying jobs. When it comes to paying the rent versus standing on principle, most men will happily play a moron and most women will happily play a ditz.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

It would be an interesting project for a media grad student to recreate a bunch of these commercials with the male/female roles switched but otherwise identical, and show these paired with the original to both teach and entertain - and obtain feedback for publication.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

You know, as a man, and someone that know history VERY well......one can say that after so much mistreatment and abuse towards women, throughout our ENTIRE history (thousands of years)......women deserve to be respected a bit more.

But at the same time, I think it's getting a bit extreme (media, laws etc). 

I believe in equality/moderation and it seems like things are always unbalanced.

And at the same time, one can also say that women continue to be "unequal" in many areas and the entire "respect etc" is just blowing smoke.......

Personally, even though things are unbalanced a bit, I think it's better than what we see in countries where women can't even show their face/vote etc. I like what this country has done when it comes to women's rights, but the divorce equality is still a HUGE issue that's completely broken.

Nothing is perfect though. I also blame a lot of "legal equality" on stupid man that don't do their due diligence and fail to invest time and find out WHO is the person in front of them etc (amongst other things, like cheating/mistreating their wive's etc etc).


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

intheory said:


> Yoplait Commercial Kitchen - YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Uh oh. I thought that one was funny (just watched the link).


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I don't know. It is just hard for me to feel sorry for men. If I did, I would not see them as _men_, and I could not respect them as _men_.


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

Lyris said:


> The overwhelming majority of tv and film studio upper executives are men. It's the same with advertising. They're the ones making the decisions.
> 
> And if it's all about money then it's pretty disingenuous to use something to your advantage on the one hand and wail about its injustice on the other.


You really think that the studio executives make the decisions about what works and what doesn't? Maybe in the Mad Men era. I think that most executives use a fairly sophisticated set of statistics to make the decisions. An executive who makes decisions contrary to what the statistics say doesn't remain an executive for long. 

I work for a major retailer that spends tens if not hundreds of millions creating and perfecting ad campaigns. They measure the effectiveness of everything they do. The primary measurement is dollars earned, and they know every attribute of every demographic involved. There's no executive calling the shots. There's only numbers telling the story. 



> In reality men know this kind of popular culture "disrespect" has exactly zero effect on the way men experience their lives. Men have more power than women and so can afford to be figures of fun to keep the money flowing.


All men have more power than all women therefore any fun (abuse?) aimed at any man is deserved?

Oscar Wilde said that life imitates art. I think there is truth to that because art captures the imagination in a way that real life does not.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good afternoon all
I think it has become more socially acceptable to directly mock /humiliate men than women - quite possibly as a backlash against at time when it was more acceptable to make fun of women.

An occasional Homer Simpson is fine, but there does seem to be a pattern in the media. 

I agree with others that media companies will do whatever they think will make the most money - no more morals (one way or the other) than sharks.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

I liked the article. We could go round'n'round on how the sexes are depicted in media. I'm not all that interested.

I'm interested in how my contemporaries, colleagues, and my partner treats me.

Have seen this dynamic in a number of stories I'm familiar with over the years. And it most certainly can cut either way on the gender divide. I've seen SAHM's post about being belittled by their husbands wondering what exactly they do all day, and women that despite their husband being a captain of industry or overseeing the work of hundreds of employees, when he's home, he is open game for critique in terms of how he screws in a lightbulb or how he loads the dishwasher.

My ex-wife used this against me. I don't think she meant it intentionally. But as I've stated many times before, once a dynamic becomes entrenched, it can be very difficult to break.

I felt like she wanted to feel that she had mastery over something, as she didn't work. She chose the home and the children. By default ... she knew more and better, and would demonstrate at every opportunity. I didn't see a need for a blow-out, so I remained complicit ... which only tended to increase the scope of critique.

It was weird. I didn't know less, or become less capable. It just became the norm that if I did it, it couldn't possibly be right.

It became corrosive. It bled into virtually every aspect of the relationship. And once it's there ... recovery is questionable.

So, during the death spiral of our marriage, I flipped the script. After all, I had a whole LOT of things I believed she didn't do very well at all. I let NOTHING slide, nothing. I called her on every failure and short-coming. 

And in very short order, she was terrified to interact with me at all. She felt 'stupid'. The critique of me of course stopped as well, because I'd fire back with something that would 'hurt' her.

It was extraordinarily dysfunctional, and sad.

She shut down. Our marriage died. Certainly NOT the way to recover a broken dynamic. 

The up-side was I found myself, and my voice again. I balanced the equation after I got through my 'angry phase'.

I look back at the way I treated her, and I shudder. Don't know if she thinks the same, but I do know that she now treats me with unparalleled respect and consideration when we interact.

Respect is crucial. I don't know if you can truly love someone you don't respect. You may want to, but loss of respect rots the foundation of the relationship.

I'm fine with the discussion of respect for men being a non-starter. Don't care ...

Try to exercise that when you are dealing with me and you won't get very far at all.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Lyris said:


> Oh boo hoo. Men are making the shows, so they clearly don't think it hurts them.
> 
> Men can make those shows and commercials secure in the knowledge that it's pandering to women viewers but it not going to affect their standing in the actual real world.


It's an observation Lyris. I'm not sure why you feel like throwing darts but your comment makes no sense to this discussion. Entertainment is about ratings and making money. It has nothing to do with a message that adolescent boys and girls may get from it.

If you'd like to have a point and join the discussion, you'll probably find that most will agree with your thought. You're a smart girl after all.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

BradWesley said:


> $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
> 
> That's your answer!


:iagree:
Entertainment is created by employees and based on ratings and keeping employment.

Which means the solution is the obvious. People have to separate virtual reality from reality. If they can't do that then they get what they ask for? But human nature isn't so obvious so I feel bad for young couples that fall into cycles like this. Neither the young man or his wife understands that him standing up would make them both happier.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

It is certainly more difficult to find women who respect men in today's age. I just find that the women who do respect men, and who look down on those commercials where they are treated like idiots or worse irrelevant to raising children are just the cream of the crop and worth waiting a lifetime for. I know from past experience what it feels like to be devalued because I'm a guy. I accepted it for a small time but quickly corrected and would never tolerate that again.

So to those real women out there we appreciate you


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

I must say the images of how men are portrayed on TV don't really bother me all that much. It _does_ bother me when I see a man being belittled in a grocery store, or at dinner party, or pretty much any public place. 

In some cases if I know the couple I've even tried to intervene with a pointed comment here or there. It never seems to make a difference. These guys are literally conditioned to take the verbal abuse, in many cases they don't even realize how bad it looks because they have grown accustomed to tuning it out. However, I don't think its the media that made them this way. They only have themselves to blame. They let it happen.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

ReformedHubby said:


> I must say the images of how men are portrayed on TV don't really bother me all that much. It _does_ bother me when I see a man being belittled in a grocery store, or at dinner party, or pretty much any public place.
> 
> In some cases if I know the couple I've even tried to intervene with a pointed comment here or there. It never seems to make a difference. These guys are literally conditioned to take the verbal abuse, in many cases they don't even realize how bad it looks because they have grown accustomed to tuning it out. However, I don't think its the media that made them this way. They only have themselves to blame. They let it happen.


We see this all the time when we're out. I try not to judge bc I have no idea what's going on in the relationship but it's tough ignore it.

It's the norm though. A woman can loudly speak in the most disdainful derogatory tone to the man next to her and no one even takes a second glance.
My husband and I smile and laugh together at the store and he pulls me in to kiss me on the cheek...ALL eyes on us like we're breaking the law.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

I really think todays mailes are taught to take it from women. They are not allowed to be boys growing up anymore and it translates to not being men when grown.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> They make the shows that way bc apparently it's every man's dream to have the hot wife no matter how stupid or out of shape he happens to be. Also,apparently the men making the shows feel men are entitled to have the amazing hot wife take care of them while they do nothing to be interesting,sexy,or even a good husband. It's all about what men are entitled to just for having a penis.
> 
> Of COURSE the overweight dim girl isn't going to be have a hot husband. But if she lost some of that ass and got some intelligence they'd pair her with the overweight moron husband...she STILL isn't getting the hot guy


 quite true. I find that equally annoying.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> We see this all the time when we're out. I try not to judge bc I have no idea what's going on in the relationship but it's tough ignore it.
> 
> It's the norm though. A woman can loudly speak in the most disdainful derogatory tone to the man next to her and no one even takes a second glance.
> My husband and I smile and laugh together at the store and he pulls me in to kiss me on the cheek...*ALL eyes on us like we're breaking the law*.


My wife and I were grocery shopping a while ago, and our song came over the radio, and I stopped us in the middle of the aisle and we danced to the whole song right there in the middle of the store...oh the looks were priceless...I imagine some of the men got an earful from their women when they got to the car...


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

samyeagar said:


> My wife and I were grocery shopping a while ago, and our song came over the radio, and I stopped us in the middle of the aisle and we danced to the whole song right there in the middle of the store...oh the looks were priceless...I imagine some of the men got an earful from their women when they got to the car...


That's really sweet! 

DH and I would have looked at you guys then looked at each other like wth? and laughed together LOL


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

ReformedHubby said:


> I must say the images of how men are portrayed on TV don't really bother me all that much. It _does_ bother me when I see a man being belittled in a grocery store, or at dinner party, or pretty much any public place.
> 
> In some cases if I know the couple I've even tried to intervene with a pointed comment here or there. It never seems to make a difference. These guys are literally conditioned to take the verbal abuse, in many cases they don't even realize how bad it looks because they have grown accustomed to tuning it out. However, I don't think its the media that made them this way. They only have themselves to blame. *They let it happen*.


You're right they let it happen. In my case I did the same thing. When I was married and first child came my x would often tell me that I didn't know what I was doing in regards to anything with my daughter.....feeding, changing diapers, washing bottles, and on and on and on....constant criticism. 

Finally one day, about 3 weeks in, it occurred to me that she was learning as she went same as me. So I told her this is the way I'm doing this, it may not be the way you like but your choices are to walk away or shut the **** up and watch, I'm done with your BS and comments. And then that was it. Some things she just shut up about and other things she saw me do and could stand she would just walk out of the room for. 

I let that happen. I then corrected it so your right it is on the guy to stand up for himself.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

On the flip side,DH works with guys who are so icky to their wives. The one guy would scream at his wife over the phone,call her an idiot and hang up on her. Then she'd call back apologizing for whatever "stupid" thing she had done to upset him. 
The one that REALLY pisses me off is his coworker who insists on ranking the wives during the office Christmas party and compares them to his wife. His wife is delightful in public and seems like a sweet woman. Doesn't stop him from venting about her looks and weight to my husband. She isn't even that overweight,maybe like 10 lbs or so. Nothing crazy.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> My husband and I smile and laugh together at the store and he pulls me in to kiss me on the cheek...ALL eyes on us like we're breaking the law.


Its sad to me that this is seen as unusual behavior. My wife and I are constantly touching each other and give each other the occasional peck on the lips in public. Nothing pervy. But you can tell that some people don't really like it. 

But sometimes they make comments that surprise you. One day a complete stranger walked up to us and said to me that I wish that my wife looked at me the way that your wife looks at you. I can only imagine what he was going through, for him to come up to us and say that. Poor guy.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> That's really sweet!
> 
> DH and I would have looked at you guys then looked at each other like wth? and laughed together LOL


The things is, things like that, we don't even try...they just happen naturally, it's how we are together. We have had complete strangers, mostly older people, come up to us and comment about how happy we look, and the love, respect, desire we exude. We look at each other like "What were we doing?" because it's not like we do anything that doesn't just come naturally, nor is it like we are all over eachother or anything like that. It may be the brief glance, the thumb rubbing when we are holding hands...


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Wolf1974 said:


> It is certainly more difficult to find women who respect men in today's age. I just find that the women who do respect men, and who look down on those commercials where they are treated like idiots or worse irrelevant to raising children are just the cream of the crop and worth waiting a lifetime for. I know from past experience what it feels like to be devalued because I'm a guy. I accepted it for a small time but quickly corrected and would never tolerate that again.
> 
> So to those real women out there we appreciate you


:smthumbup:


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Bah! Respect is earned and commanded, not given


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

ReformedHubby said:


> I must say the images of how men are portrayed on TV don't really bother me all that much. It _does_ bother me when I see a man being belittled in a grocery store, or at dinner party, or pretty much any public place.
> 
> 
> 
> In some cases if I know the couple I've even tried to intervene with a pointed comment here or there. It never seems to make a difference. These guys are literally conditioned to take the verbal abuse, in many cases they don't even realize how bad it looks because they have grown accustomed to tuning it out. However, I don't think its the media that made them this way. They only have themselves to blame. They let it happen.



I guess it is either cultural or I married someone different. We never wear our issues in public, ever. Sure we fight but neither of us would ever think of "dressing" the other down in public.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

jld said:


> I don't know. It is just hard for me to feel sorry for men. If I did, I would not see them as _men_, and I could not respect them as _men_.


I don't feel too sorry for men either. I mean we have to figure stuff out for ourselves eventually. I do feel bad for teenage girls and boys though who get their signals crossed about what good/bad marriage dynamics look like. Most of that they probably learn from home which we haven't mentioned much. Maybe TV is just the reflection and not part of the problem?


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## changedbeliefs (Jun 13, 2014)

Daniel Tosh had a great bit in one of his shows:

"EVERY commercial's the same: 'Dad's dumb.......kids are adorable.....and mom thinks she saved the day by adding a packet of seasoning to a pound of ground beef!"


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Wolf1974 said:


> It is certainly more difficult to find women who respect men in today's age.


Is it? What does that look like on a daily basis, excluding a husband and wife dynamic, which I don't see as "women don't respect men" but as "_this _woman doesn't respect _this_ man." 



> I just find that the women who do respect men, and who look down on those commercials where they are treated like idiots or worse irrelevant to raising children are just the cream of the crop and worth waiting a lifetime for. *I know from past experience what it feels like to be devalued because I'm a guy. * I accepted it for a small time but quickly corrected and would never tolerate that again.
> 
> So to those real women out there we appreciate you


From your wife, or from other people? Have any women other than your ex disrespected you _because _you're a man? If so, I'd be interested in examples.

I guess I don't see a societal problem when the examples given are solely a wife haranguing her husband in the grocery store. There are many reasons why that happens, but I don't think it's because "society" or "culture" has changed so much that women automatically disrespect men or devalue men solely because they are men.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Speaking of Tv... ..I can think of a couple 70's shows where the men were always Respected.. *The Waltons* and *Little House on the Prairie*.. Never were the husband's put down on these shows...and the wives were good women who treated them beautifully.. they worked together - oh they had a few lively neighbors and people who come into the story line where all matter of relationship problems were portrayed..

Then can't forget about Harriet & Nels (if anyone knows who I am talking about!?)...







....she kinda had him on a leash...the more mouthy overbearing female with a soften man (yikes I can say this about me & husband too!)... I still got the impression she loved him very much.. it always turned good...I'm not that obnoxious.. and their daughter -Nelly... Impossible!

I always enjoyed the dramatic story lines and how these families worked it out - with friends, their community...even though these were both set back near the dawn of vehicles.. I didn't care, I loved those shows..


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> My husband and I smile and laugh together at the store and he pulls me in to kiss me on the cheek...ALL eyes on us like we're breaking the law.


Bonnie and Clyde. What's cute is to see a little old man and woman in a pickup with her in the middle scrunched up next to him.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Meh personally I don't understand this whole idea of asking/demanding respect.

For me respect isn't something that you give, nor that you can ask for, you can't just make someone respect you. It's not a choice to be made whether to respect someone or not, it's something earned.

Am I the only one with this mentality?


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Quoting my feelings about respect that I posted in another thread a while ago...still stands for me.

"I'm somewhat unclear on the concept of making someone earn your respect.
From where I'm standing everyone starts out with my respect until they do something to show me they are undeserving of it.At that point,they would have to earn it back.
But we're all people.No one is entitled to more or less respect at first meet. From a female perspective,to make a man you've only just met earn your respect when they haven't done anything to prove they aren't worthy of it seems unfair...

I guess I'm trying to say I feel respect should be a benefit of the doubt thing. Worthy until proven unworthy."


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

RD - If you are married to someone, the assumption should be you respectded them at some point. If that is true, why do you not respect them now? Or did you never?

IMO, men are taught to take it in todays world. To be totally beta, because that is supposed to be what works. But you need some of the alpha side to demand and earn respect.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Wolf1974 said:


> It is certainly more difficult to find women who respect men in today's age.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree we see more couples like this today than we did years past but I also agree with norajane that it's not an indictment of women. If anything it's more of an indictment of young men for not innately getting it. But it is what it is. Lots of young men don't get it and lots of young women resent their men for letting them get away with nasty treatment.



norajane said:


> From your wife, or from other people? Have any women other than your ex disrespected you _because _you're a man? If so, I'd be interested in examples.
> 
> I guess I don't see a societal problem when the examples given are solely a wife haranguing her husband in the grocery store. There are many reasons why that happens, but I don't think it's because "society" or "culture" has changed so much that women automatically disrespect men or devalue men solely because they are men.


1. My brother's / wife's / sister and her husband: It was terrible to witness. Fortunately didn't have to often. But he had a close call with a heart attack things seemed to change a lot.
2. A married couple I rented a house to years back: She knew everything and he knew nothing. Accept in reality he was brilliant. She respected him so much that she propositioned me.
3. A couple looking at the house next to mine and my EX's years back. Not sure why I remember that.
4. My niece and her boyfriend and all of her previous boyfriends.

I agree though that there's no conspiracy to disrespect men. It's just happens when guys for some reason don't know importance of defending themselves.


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> Meh personally I don't understand this whole idea of asking/demanding respect.
> 
> For me respect isn't something that you give, nor that you can ask for, you can't just make someone respect you. It's not a choice to be made whether to respect someone or not, it's something earned.
> 
> Am I the only one with this mentality?


Well, I think you're a little miserly with doling out respect. Or maybe your definition is stricter than mine. My default mode in dealing with others is with respect. Now, obviously some folks can lose that respect in whole or in part, but they have to earn that disrespect, so in that sense we have entirely the opposite approach.

And yes, I demand respect from others. The consequences when disrespected vary depending on person and situation, but I'd argue that the correct consequences force respect (although it may be grudging respect - that's fine) more often than not.

Now, they may be thinking I'm a complete asswhole, so in that sense you'd correctly argue that their respect for me is pretty limited. True, but I probably don't care what they're thinking, only what they're actually doing.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

Nikita2270 said:


> ...
> I really hate gender stereotypes.


It's not just gender. It's often racial too.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Meh personally I don't understand this whole idea of asking/demanding respect.
> 
> For me respect isn't something that you give, nor that you can ask for, you can't just make someone respect you. It's not a choice to be made whether to respect someone or not, it's something earned.
> 
> Am I the only one with this mentality?


Nope, you're not.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Meh personally I don't understand this whole idea of asking/demanding respect.
> 
> For me respect isn't something that you give, nor that you can ask for, you can't just make someone respect you. It's not a choice to be made whether to respect someone or not, it's something earned.
> 
> Am I the only one with this mentality?


I think the same thing. Probably most people with good boundaries would agree with you. But I didn't know better at 16 or 17. A lot of guys don't understand this innately without having to either learn it the hard way or be taught it by example.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

> *Random Dude said*: Meh personally I don't understand this whole idea of asking/demanding respect.
> 
> For me respect isn't something that you give, nor that you can ask for, you can't just make someone respect you. It's not a choice to be made whether to respect someone or not, it's something earned.
> 
> Am I the only one with this mentality?





> *GTdad said : *Well, I think you're a little miserly with doling out respect. Or maybe your definition is stricter than mine. *My default mode in dealing with others is with respect. Now, obviously some folks can lose that respect in whole or in part, but they have to earn that disrespect, so in that sense we have entirely the opposite approach*.


 I, too, much prefer GTdad's approach...basically this *>>*







.. 

Albert Einstein said "I speak to everyone the same way whether he is the garbage man or the President of a University"... 

But then you realize...








...

and ultimately..


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> The commercials and shows are mostly made by men. So why are men doing this?


how do you know this?

do you mean the producers or the writers?


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> Meh personally I don't understand this whole idea of asking/demanding respect.
> 
> For me respect isn't something that you give, nor that you can ask for, you can't just make someone respect you. It's not a choice to be made whether to respect someone or not, it's something earned.
> 
> Am I the only one with this mentality?


this is true on an individual basis but when the mass media portray men as being bumbling fools on the majority of shows and comercials then it kinda like they are brain washing society.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Put it this way, my ex still has my respect and some even consider it a sign that I haven't moved on at all even though I have. Despite our numerous issues she still proved herself a loyal wife throughout our marriage and not only that, she understands the importance of cooperation when it comes to parenting despite our differences. She has EARNED my respect in this regard and it's irrelevant to whether I even like her or not.

When I first got married my ex-mother-in-law never respected me, she badmouthed me at every turn to ex's entire family regardless of the courtesy I initially showed her. Was I to go up to her and ask for her respect? :rofl:

Give to gain? It didn't work that way, and it doesn't work that way - No! Instead I earned it by proving her wrong every step of the way achieving financial success and provided so much for my new family that made her bite her poisonous tongue which made her look like a fool in front of her own family!!! Sure she still hated me, but she could no longer disrespect me.

I guess I'm rather severe with this, but probably due to my upbringing, I treat people based on the respect that they have earned from me. I don't give to gain it. I earn it and expect them to earn it too.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> Quoting my feelings about respect that I posted in another thread a while ago...still stands for me.
> 
> "I'm somewhat unclear on the concept of making someone earn your respect.
> From where I'm standing everyone starts out with my respect until they do something to show me they are undeserving of it.At that point,they would have to earn it back.
> ...


You mentioned "benefit of the doubt". That's what I think earning respect is really about replacing. If someone has earned my respect then I am proud of who they in one or many ways and I don't have to give them the benefit of the doubt. I trust that they are "....fill in the blanks of things I respect about a person...." because they've proven it over time.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

chillymorn said:


> this is true on an individual basis but when the mass media portray men as being bumbling fools on the majority of shows and comercials then it kinda like they are brain washing society.


It is no different - the mass media portray people of my background with all sorts of negative stereotypes and one can consider it brain washing society too but it still comes down to the individual to earn the respect from others that one does not automatically recieve.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> You mentioned "benefit of the doubt". That's what I think earning respect is really about replacing. If someone has earned my respect then I am proud of who they in one or many ways and I don't have to give them the benefit of the doubt. I trust that they are "....fill in the blanks of things I respect about a person...." because they've proven it over time.


Yes,that would make sense for folks you've known a while. The more you know about them as a person,the deeper your respect can be or you might respect them less than when you first met them. My post was more referring to people you first meet or ones you don't know all that well.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> It is no different - the mass media portray people of my background with all sorts of negative stereotypes and one can consider it brain washing society too but it still comes down to the individual to earn the respect from others that one does not automatically recieve.


And I think it starts with respecting _oneself._


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

RandomDude said:


> Put it this way, my ex still has my respect and some even consider it a sign that I haven't moved on at all even though I have. Despite our numerous issues she still proved herself a loyal wife throughout our marriage and not only that, she understands the importance of cooperation when it comes to parenting despite our differences. She has EARNED my respect in this regard and it's irrelevant to whether I even like her or not.
> 
> When I first got married my ex-mother-in-law never respected me, she badmouthed me at every turn to ex's entire family *regardless of the courtesy I initially showed her*. Was I to go up to her and ask for her respect? :rofl:
> 
> ...


It sounds as though YOU did offer her respect, you mentioned courtesy you showed her initially... See whomever wants to take that kindness... that hand to them.. and throw FIRE on it.. , stirring contentions for no apparent reason other than prejudice ...they have thrown the 1st dagger into the relationship... you acted like anyone else would act.. 

She pre-judged you , correct? .... on your past and was worried about her daughters's welfare.... or was it something more sinister ....maybe she was jealous of you...she wanted her daughter all to herself.. The real motivations of people are fascinating .. and this always gives a clue to what they are made of..

She should have had enough respect for her daughter (at that point ) to trust her judgement and give you a chance.. again.. it sounds you did the right thing but got burned badly from her..which makes this a very sour subject for you..


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

SA I had no degree, I STILL have no degree :rofl:
I'm an uneducated buffoon!

The question of whether or not she should have respected me/ex is irrelevant - what IS relevant is that I earned it. No amount of demands was going to earn it, no amount of courtesy was going to earn it and that's just how it is.

So when I see a topic like this saying "men should be respected" I go "people should earn the respect that they crave instead of asking for it"


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> SA I had no degree, I STILL have no degree :rofl:
> I'm an uneducated buffoon!
> 
> The question of whether or not she should have respected me/ex is irrelevant - what IS relevant is that I earned it. No amount of demands was going to earn it, no amount of courtesy was going to earn it and that's just how it is.
> ...


well the intent of the orginal post was comparing societies respect for women vers societies respect for men.

while I agree with you on having to earn respect.

I can also see how in general respect is lost for men because of the media. and how they are portrayed on tv.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Are you going to allow the media to dictate your lives and overestimate it's reach in society when even the most guillible soul would know the difference between red and blue when it's right in front of them (unless they're colorblind)? The focus should be on ourselves as men and the respect we earn as individuals amongst our colleagues regardless of the media and how it portrays us.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

RandomDude said:


> SA I had no degree, I STILL have no degree :rofl:
> I'm an uneducated buffoon!
> 
> The question of whether or not she should have respected me/ex is irrelevant - what IS relevant is that I earned it. No amount of demands was going to earn it,* no amount of courtesy was going to earn it and that's just how it is*.
> ...


Well some people are impossible to please, Ok.. so she didn't respect you cause you didn't go to college or have a degree... was you making money at the time, paying your bills / living responsibly ?? 

I guess I personally have issues with those who automatically look down on lower income people, so if she was one of those.. you are crapped on before you reach the door.. 

So you made it to the big time, does that make you a better person cause you have more dollars at the end of your name..

I am not speaking about you here when I say this.. but making more money /earning 6 figures , for instance, doesn't equate character to me... but I know plenty of people feel this way.... giving a look of disgust just cause another drives an older car or something...(material pre-judgement I guess)..

Or maybe I am just not getting it.. I am just an uneducated buffoon too, after all.

I mostly respect people who treat other people well and do their best to live with integrity..in all their dealings.being honest even if it hurts them..... it seems to be rare find in society -unfortunately.. people are ruled by money, power, success.. it's who you know. . not how you live..


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

always_alone said:


> And let's not forget that men are also lining up to play these roles.
> 
> If they don't like how they're portrayed, shouldn't they just stop?


Same argument with porn. Women line up to have sex on film. They don't like how they are portrayed they should just stop.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

SA, we're city folk remember? Over here it's all $$$

I grew up as a country boy though, hence to this day money is just a means to an end. Since seperation I no longer really have any desire to make more money which sometimes puts me at odds with my shareholders who do and push me to expand. 

Ex never judged me for my finances (a quality that I'm having trouble with in terms of finding a non-materialistic replacement) but her family - notably her mother does and her attitude is not uncommon. It's just how it is, but anyways this is off topic.

This topic is about:










:smthumbup:


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## BaxJanson (Apr 4, 2013)

If those who say that there is not a societial problem of disrespect, I ask - why do these shows/commercials work?

Imagine a company puts out a commercial where a man comes home, dinner isn't cooked, so he backhands his wife. We pan in on the wife's blackening eye as we roll the slogan - "Next time, I'll remember to whip up some hamburger helper!" 

The outcry would be outrageous. Because this scenario is one which society has (rightly) decided should not be rewarded. Running an ad like this would not result in making them any money.

But let a man get hit in the nuts (Doritos...)

People laugh. They remember it. They remember the brand, and they buy more of it. It's effective. The company makes money - because society is ok with this.

We can use the amount of money a show or commercial makes as a measure of HOW much or little people care about the issue. And we can see - men are treated like children, like monkeys, as sub-human. As a sex, they are insulted and demeaned and berated and ground down and beaten up - and society cares so little, it doesn't even NOTICE it.

And it won't notice it, until there are enough people pointing it out.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

BaxJanson said:


> And we can see - men are treated like children, like monkeys, as sub-human. As a sex, they are insulted and demeaned and berated and ground down and beaten up - and society cares so little, it doesn't even NOTICE it.


In real life does one feel that they are treated like a child? Like a monkey? Like sub-human? Insulted and demeaned and berated, ground down, and beaten up?

Or are you treated like an adult, looked up upon? Respected and followed? Do such men exist? Of course they do! How? How can they exist with the media trying to tell us they dont? 

Simple = because they simply do! No amount of BS on TV can change the laws of the universe. You can't make people choose to respect you, but you can give them no choice BUT to respect you.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I agree with SA. My default position is to respect other people. They don't have to earn my respect and I don't have to earn theirs. Who am I that every person I interact with needs to prove that they meet my arbitrary and often self-referred standards? The earning part is the root of disrespect towards men or women or minorities or maintenance workers. They are all worthy of respect until we know otherwise. Since lack of respect is so harmful the criteria for it's lost should be rigorous and fair. That's hard to quantify. 

I don't think men are disrespected any more than women. For every commercial and TV show that show dumb men there is pervasive societal disrespect of women. It is is so much the undercurrent of out culture that no one says anything. Words have impact- the things said and done are usually sexual in nature. It's usual an effort to shame or control. It's a basic disrespect of human nature. 

As far as defending men. Do men need defending against a stupid commercial or TV show? I don't think so - I have no problem respecting men. They do a lot that more than deserves my homage. There is no commercial that can negate that. I'd be a fool if I thought otherwise. What concerns me more is the general demonization of men. That does not come from a commercial. In fact I think baffonizing men is an attempt to take attention off of the more serious problem. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

> We can use the amount of money a show or commercial makes as a measure of HOW much or little people care about the issue. And we can see - men are treated like children, like monkeys, as sub-human. As a sex, they are insulted and demeaned and berated and ground down and beaten up - and society cares so little, it doesn't even NOTICE it.
> 
> And it won't notice it, until there are enough people pointing it out.


Pointing out how women are mostly portrayed as sex objects in the media hasn't stopped that one bit, either. We barely even notice it because it is so ubiquitous. We also barely notice how often women are raped on tv shows, either. Hell, we've got a whole, specific Law & Order devoted to women getting sexually abused and raped, ho hum.

Television is a vast wasteland of crap. It disrespects _everyone_, and especially our intelligence.

I'm more interested in where exactly this disrespect for men because they are men is being seen or experienced in society. So far, it's just examples of individual men and women in their specific marital relationships. 

It's not at work, it's not strangers treating men as morons in public, it's not in politics, it's not in corporations. Where is it? 

Is this outcry just about the portrayal of men in commercials and sitcoms?


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

What exactly is respect to people BTW. I didn't read the whole thread so it may have been covered.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

norajane said:


> Television is a vast wasteland of crap. It disrespects _everyone_, and especially our intelligence.


QFT :smthumbup:

Still nothing to get worked up on IMO


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## BaxJanson (Apr 4, 2013)

norajane said:


> We also barely notice how often women are raped on tv shows, either. Hell, we've got a whole, specific Law & Order devoted to women getting sexually abused and raped, ho hum.


Very few notice that the criminal is more often than not a wealthy white man, either. 

Throughout this thread, people on both sides have extended personal experiences of men experiencing this on the streets, in stores, in their families. It's in movies, tv, advertisements, online. It's in the schools, workplaces, the law.

Men are criminals. Men are violent. Men are primitive. Men are stupid. Men are evil. Men are a threat.

Sure, there's a lot out there grinding women down. But I also constantly see people battling it. There is no comparable movement for men.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

norajane said:


> Is it? What does that look like on a daily basis, excluding a husband and wife dynamic, which I don't see as "women don't respect men" but as "_this _woman doesn't respect _this_ man."
> 
> i can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not but my statement was toward their betrayal on tv and media. If you don't know what I'm talking about then I guess you don't ever watch tv. For real life examples I would refer you to any single guys you may know who are dating. My best stories come from my real life experience with that, from being admonished for holding a door open to being told that "Dads have no chance of success to raise a daughter and I should turn that over to my x wife"
> 
> ...


And I never used that's as an of my examples so not sure why you're attaching that to me


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> In real life does one feel that they are treated like a child? Like a monkey? Like sub-human? Insulted and demeaned and berated, ground down, and beaten up?


I think that's the whole point is that we see more couples where the guy is being treated like child, mon key, sub-human, insulted, demeaned and berated. And guys seemingly don't realize how pathetic this looks when it's happening to them.

I think it seems crazy to you because you seem to be very motivated and strong willed (kudos by the way). But your personality traits set you up for success and success breeds confidence. A lot of young guys are willing to go with the flow rather than blaze their own trail in life. Those guys have a bad flow to go with IMO.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

norajane said:


> Is this outcry just about the portrayal of men in commercials and sitcoms?


The article is more related to a bloggers observation that his articles about respecting women are popular but his articles about respecting men are not. He mentioned TV along with a lot of other stuff. I'm the one guilty :redcard: of getting us sidetracked on the media angle too much. In short his point was culture related.

Interestingly though I've changed my view a little after reading input in this thread. Now I think media as a reflection rather than a cause.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Thundarr said:


> The article is more related to a bloggers observation that his articles about respecting women are popular but his articles about respecting men are not. He mentioned TV along with a lot of other stuff. I'm the one guilty :redcard: of getting us sidetracked on the media angle too much. In short his point was culture related.
> 
> Interestingly though I've changed my view a little after reading input in this thread. Now I think media as a reflection rather than a cause.


:iagree:

I don't think adults are learning this behavior from tv but kids do and also from bad examples set by parents. I do think that media in all forms is a reflection of society. And everyone get their turn at getting portrayed as a stereotype from both genders and that doesn't make it right for either.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> The article is more related to a bloggers observation that his articles about respecting women are popular but his articles about respecting men are not. He mentioned TV along with a lot of other stuff. I'm the one guilty :redcard: of getting us sidetracked on the media angle too much. In short his point was culture related.
> 
> Interestingly though I've changed my view a little after reading input in this thread. Now I think media as a reflection rather than a cause.


I think that blogger might be getting different reactions to his blogs because a vast majority of men don't actually feel like they are disrespected in their lives as a whole.

Also...who reads his blogs? Could be his audience. He certainly lost me when he started with the "women must submit to their husbands" stuff.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Wolf1974 said:


> And I never used that's as an of my examples so not sure why you're attaching that to me


I am trying to understand if lots of men really think this is a societal problem, and whether they really think they are being disrespected solely because they are men in their lives as a whole - work, play, etc.

No one talked about how they were disrespected at work because they are men. No one talked about how men are disrespected as a gender so they aren't elected to office or to executive positions in corporations. No one said they get paid less or weren't given jobs because they are a man. No one said that they are given the ****ty lockers at the gym because they are men. Nothing.

You were the first to even mention anything about child care, which I would have thought would have been the biggest thing noted where men aren't respected. Men took a real beating when they first started doing housework and childcare - that's where a lot of the fumbling fools showed up on tv.

Instead, people talked about seeing other men disrespected in public by their wives. And you, among others, talked about being disrespected by your own ex-wife. I don't count those as societal issues, but individual ones. I can't fix that, society can't fix that. The couple can.

If there's no movement to gain more respect for men in society, I think it's because there aren't many men who are feeling disrespected as men. There are men who feel disrespected by their wives, which is an individual issue to solve.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

BaxJanson said:


> Sure, there's a lot out there grinding women down. But I also constantly see people battling it. There is no comparable movement for men.


I think I know why this is. Real men are supposed to just get it. They're supposed to know not to let anyone treat them bad. No amount of bad examples would let a real man fall into this trap. They're also supposed to have a big softy side when they are being treated right (not be jerks). But there's a lot of potential real men that aren't.

I should be happy about it because in a perfect world where everyone knew this stuff, my wife would have found a good one before me if that were the case. Instead she had a past checkered with puppies and jackarses and thought I was all that.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

I think that individuals, or societies for that matter can be 'blind' when it comes to some of these issues. Can't be aware of what you don't see.

I think MANY men operate this way. 

I didn't see it ... until I did. And for me it was glaring. And once you do, you can't un-see it. The other important part to see, is that you (the self) are complicit in its perpetration.

Think globally, act locally. If one wants to change how men are perceived and treated, changing your own behavior and conduct is a good place to start.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

norajane said:


> I am trying to understand if lots of men really think this is a societal problem, and whether they really think they are being disrespected solely because they are men in their lives as a whole - work, play, etc.
> 
> No one talked about how they were disrespected at work because they are men. No one talked about how men are disrespected as a gender so they aren't elected to office or to executive positions in corporations. No one said they get paid less or weren't given jobs because they are a man. No one said that they are given the ****ty lockers at the gym because they are men. Nothing.
> 
> ...


Ok so work examples. I will start by saying that I am against discrimination of any type and think that inequality at work is wrong. I am government male dominated profession that is changing and growing and mostly for the best. I am a white heterosexual male and to many who are "minorities" at my job public enemy number one. I have worked for gay, black, white , Hispanic bosses and watched them personally give preferential treatment to other they feel they identify with. It's just the world we live in. But none than I have seen the reverse discrimination when it comes to heterosexual or lesbian women who have been selected over me for promotion , positions, and duty assignments. I even was pushed out of one unit by a lesbian LT who wanted one of her friends in my position. So it happens and discrimination is wrong in all forms.


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