# New Dad, Same Old Story (LONG POST)



## VaDad (Nov 9, 2011)

So I'm about to rehash the same story I've seen told here many times. It is somewhat heartening to see that I am not alone, yet I am truly terrified of what the next several months/years have to bring for me and my beautiful sons. Sorry this is so long, but there is so much to put out there.

I'm 34, married for nine years, together for 12. I met my wife in college and we were friends before we started dating. We've had a textbook happy marriage for 8 of those 9 years (or so I thought), and then one day... a bucket of cold water hit me. I came home from a business trip in January and she was clearly distraught. She proceeded to tell me that she had been extremely depressed, had seen a therapist and didn't love me anymore! I have to admit this was 100% out of the blue for me. For what it's worth, my wife is completely unable to communicate her emotions and has always been a somewhat cold and uncaring person (except with our boys). She gets much more emotional over seeing an animal abused than a person, and she really has no long-term friends. She is very outgoing and charismatic in groups, especially other women that share interests with her, but it has always been a challenge for her to make and keep friends of any type for very long except for some scattered long-distance relationships with old girlfriends she talked to twice a year. I figured long ago that it is just who she is, and I can handle that since we had always gotten along so well and shared our hopes and dreams and had so much fun together (I thought).

So, I guess I should have been more aware of her emotional disconnection, but when she doesn't share anything to begin with, I had no way to see that the baseline of her emotional status had changed. We'll I found out the hard way that she had been harboring years of resentment toward me for reasons unknown. Seriously, I'm a good guy. Strong career growth since we met (I'm an exec at a consulting firm and make very good money), I genuinely care about her and ask her to talk to me, I'm a communicator and love to talk, we enjoy similar political/religious views, I'm a participatory and active father to my wonderful boys. I bathe them and read to them and put them to bed every night that I'm home which is most of the time. I keep the house maintained well, mow the lawn, do my own renovation projects when necessary, and have helped her find jobs, start businesses, pay off debts, and generally provide the family with emotional and financial stability. All for naught apparently because stuff like leaving a drawer cracked in our bedroom, or not going to the occasional kids birthday party (because I'm exhausted or because I only have one day off to do my household chores) was enough to end her love for me.

Okay, so I'm not perfect... never claimed to be. I'm probably 30 lbs overweight on a big frame (6'1" weightlifter in high school/college), and I snore. I've been in graduate school full time (while working full time) for the last 13 months. We both knew this would be very stressful, and we talked about it and jointly made the decision for me to get my masters before I even applied to school. I'll be done in March BTW. I'm decent looking, smart, pretty funny, have a lots of good friends, don't smoke or do drugs, don't drink to excess, am never violent, I don't yell, and generally love life. What the hell happened... I wish I knew, but apparently years of small things built up in her head and one day she snapped and like a lightswitch, her love for me was gone?

I was floored. I told her I would do whatever it takes to change to make myself into a someone that should could love again, and I've spend the last 10 months trying that. At one point in March when it looked particularly dire, I had a bit of catharsis and I flat out told her I wasn't leaving. If she wanted to leave, that was her decision and but I wouldn't participate or make it easier for her to go. I told her the truth... that on the day of each of my sons birth, I held them tight and made a solemn silent promise that I would NEVER leave them, and I wasn't about to break my promise to them. After that, she agreed to come see a therapist with me, as well as keep seeing the one she was seeing on her own. 

Therapy was so painful... she is 100% completely incapable of expressing herself or her emotions. It got to the point that the therapist was basically telling her that she had to speak or else no one would know what was going on in her head and that she can't expect people to read her mind. It went so far that the therapist flat out told her that she was being unfair to me and the process by not opening up about something...anything.

After a few sessions, we got just enough out of her to find out about the building resent me toward me, that she had late onset post-partum depression after our second son was born, and that she just doesn't feel connected to me anymore... that we are too different... and that she's just not happy. The therapist asked point blank if there were affairs (emotional or otherwise), or even if my wife might be gay (that one shocked me). No and no, and I believe it because if you know my wife, she is a TERRIBLE liar. Basically she's incapable of a bold faced lie, and always has been. So that takes us back to her built up resentment and the depression.

We'll we tried for a while, and I really felt like we were making progress. I naively thought that we were on the road to recovery. I learned to give her the emotional space she needed, and she learned... we'll nothing since she still couldn't/wouldn't express her feelings to me. In October we had a weekend away that I was really looking forward too, and it started well, a trip to our alma mater... but it quickly went downhill. After the first day she was more disconnected than ever, and by the end of day two, we were both very tense. Two weeks later, she basically had the therapist coach her through telling me that she's still not happy and that she wants out (even though it's nothing I have done or not done... just that we are disconnected and different people). I could tell that she had spoken to the therapist before hand and was being coached through telling me.

I have had almost a year to contemplate this reality, and I believe that I've put myself in a good place emotionally to cope with the fact that this may not be salvageable. What I am working on now is standing up for what is good for me, and not just what I think will help the marriage. I've decided that if she wants out, then she should leave, and I suggested she move in with her parents (3 miles away and very close to me and the boys) for a trial period. I told her, that I want and expect full joint custody and parental decision making and she fully acknowledged and accepted that I am a damn good father and she would never try and keep them away me. Lastly I told her that if she leaves, I would make sure she had the resources to take care of the children during her 50% custody, but that I would not leave the marital home.

A little background so you don't think I'm just being cold. My wife has only been at home for 2 years since my 2nd son was born, and prior to that was making near six figures before she left to stay home. In fact she out earned me for most of our marriage, so she is very capable of making a living. I've bailed her out of credit card debt that she hid from me three times, and paid off her student loans for a career change she made prior to our getting married. Unfortunately, over the last year (with my full support and financial/emotional assistance) she has trained and become a certified birth assistant. It is truly her passion and the only thing that seems to make her happy. Problem is the pay is crappy and hours are unpredictable and very long at times.

Anyway, I've decided that she can keep her new career if she wants, but I shouldn't be responsible for her financial wherewithal. I will 100% support my kids, but she's on her own. I don't want to lose her, despite the coldness she has shown me over the years I do love her. I want my kids to have the benefits of two loving parents and a strong nuclear home. I'm not giving up, but if she has; then she needs to fully own her decision and the natural consequences that go along with that. 

There is so much more to share, but I'm droning on. I'm scared, I feel alone despite my wonderful parents, family, friends and support system. I am terrified for my boys. I don't want them to suffer because their parents were failures at marriage...it is so unfair for them. But as I've learned quickly and painfully this past year, life isn't always fair. Anyway, thank you for letting me get this out there...


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

You sound like you've got it together. I respect that.

Good luck with this. I think you might even have her evaluated by a real mental health professional. Something with her isn't adding up in the marbles department. 

As far as you know - she doesn't spend a lot of time on phone, computer, etc?


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## VaDad (Nov 9, 2011)

She clearly has had and continues to have bouts with depression, but she says she it managing that much better now. Most days her mood is fine, just cold. We don't really fight, ever. We get along well as long as we are talking about the "functional" parts of our life: the kids, school, house repairs, friends, politics...whatever her latest project is. 

As soon as the conversation turns toward "us" which it never does unless I initiate... she shuts down like wet blanket. Dead eyes, no speaking, frowning... zero interaction while I ask, beg, discuss whatever serious interpersonal issue I'm trying to deal with. The most I can usually get out of her is "I don't know". I feel for her somewhat because I think she is truly broken inside...

She's on FB and whatnot, but I have access to her phone and text records and have looked over her shoulder enough while she's online to be highly confident it isn't an affair, emotional or otherwise. This would be easier to deal with if it was (maybe).


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## HerToo (Oct 3, 2011)

Perhaps she had an affair and can't bring herself to confess it because she has lost all respect for herself. The shame could be too much for her to handle.

I hope I'm wrong.


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## VaDad (Nov 9, 2011)

HerToo said:


> Perhaps she had an affair and can't bring herself to confess it because she has lost all respect for herself. The shame could be too much for her to handle.
> 
> I hope I'm wrong.


Yeah, at first blush all signs said affair, and I thought at first that it could have been possible, but no. I know my wife better than she knows herself. I can sniff a lie from her a mile away (because she is such a terrible liar and can't think quickly on her feet if questioned about something). I'm highly confident there was never an affair. In fact, if she had a better reason for how she felt, I'm sure it would have come out by now in therapy. I am highly confident at this point that the issue is not an affair.


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## HerToo (Oct 3, 2011)

Glad to hear it.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

VaDad, the behavior you describe reminds me of SPD (Schizoid Personality Disorder), which your W may have mild-to-strong traits of. (It is NOT the same as schizophrenia.) I am not very familiar with it because my exW (of 15 years) suffers from BPD (Borderline PD). I understand that, when a SPDer's personal space is violated, she feels suffocated and feels the need to free herself and be independent. An SPDer tends to be happiest when she is in a relationship in which the partner places few emotional or intimate demands on her. Although most SPDers have the reputation of not liking to be around may people, it is not _people_ as such that they want to avoid. Rather, it is the negative and positive emotions, emotional intimacy, and self disclosure they want to avoid.

Yet, because your W does so well socially when around lots of people, I suggest you read about "secret schizoids." They have an engaging, interactive personality style which contradicts the observable characteristics emphasized by the Diagnostic Manual definitions for the schizoid personality. Ralph Klein apparently was the first psychologist to call these individuals "_secret schizoids" _because they present themselves as being socially available, interested, engaged, and involved in interacting -- while at the same time remaining emotionally withdrawn and sequestered within the safety of their internal world. Klein argues that withdrawal or detachment from the outer world is a characteristic feature of schizoid pathology but it is sometimes _overt_ and sometimes _covert, i.e., _hidden from others.

If you decide that your W seems to have strong traits of SPD or another PD, I would encourage you to validate your suspicions by visiting a clinical psychologist on your own. Only a professional can determine whether her traits are so severe and persistent as to meet 100% of the criteria for having full blown SPD. (Yet, even if the traits fall short of the diagnostic criteria, they nonetheless may be strong enough to undermine your marriage.) I encourage you to see the psychologist "on your own" because, if my experience with my BPDer exW is any guide, it is as foolish to rely on your W's _therapist_ for advice during the marriage as it is to rely on her _attorney's_ advice during a divorce. Professional ethics require the therapist to protect his client, which is NOT YOU if he is primarily treating her. Take care, VaDad.


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## VaDad (Nov 9, 2011)

Uptown said:


> VaDad, the behavior you describe reminds me of SPD (Schizoid Personality Disorder), which your W may have mild-to-strong traits of. (It is NOT the same as schizophrenia.) I am not very familiar with it because my exW (of 15 years) suffers from BPD (Borderline PD). I understand that, when a SPDer's personal space is violated, she feels suffocated and feels the need to free herself and be independent. An SPDer tends to be happiest when she is in a relationship in which the partner places few emotional or intimate demands on her. Although most SPDers have the reputation of not liking to be around may people, it is not _people_ as such that they want to avoid. Rather, it is the negative and positive emotions, emotional intimacy, and self disclosure they want to avoid.


Uptown, thank you. I spent some time reading on SPD last night, and you are correct. The non-presenting version of SPD fits my wife to a tee. She can be very charismatic when she wants/needs to, but has no deep personal connections to anyone. She has complained of a void in her life since before I met her. She is constantly seeking the "next" thing in her life to fill that void.

I guess all of our early years, I was lost in the infatuation stage and never really saw that she would not connect on a deep personal level. She has always been a bit cold, and she will admit that, but she doesn't see it when it's happening... her cold or dismissive reaction to others around her. I chose to overlook those issues because we got along so well in the "operational" side of our life... the mechanics of living together.

Even sex has always had a mechanical feel to it. She never wanted to look eye to eye and experience each other, just focus on the act, not the connection. Sex was good at times, but seriously lacking in quantity and quality since we were first married.

The scariest thing, is that it doesn't appear that there is any known treatment for SPD... just awareness and coping, which doesn't bode well for me finding that "lost" connection to my wife. Perhaps there never was a connection and I'm just figuring that out... and that makes me deeply sad.


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

As sad as that is, it might be time to let her go.


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## franf (Nov 17, 2011)

Uptown said:


> VaDad, the behavior you describe reminds me of SPD (Schizoid Personality Disorder), which your W may have mild-to-strong traits of. (It is NOT the same as schizophrenia.) I am not very familiar with it because my exW (of 15 years) suffers from BPD (Borderline PD). I understand that, when a SPDer's personal space is violated, she feels suffocated and feels the need to free herself and be independent. An SPDer tends to be happiest when she is in a relationship in which the partner places few emotional or intimate demands on her. Although most SPDers have the reputation of not liking to be around may people, it is not _people_ as such that they want to avoid. Rather, it is the negative and positive emotions, emotional intimacy, and self disclosure they want to avoid.
> 
> Yet, because your W does so well socially when around lots of people, I suggest you read about "secret schizoids." They have an engaging, interactive personality style which contradicts the observable characteristics emphasized by the Diagnostic Manual definitions for the schizoid personality. Ralph Klein apparently was the first psychologist to call these individuals "_secret schizoids" _because they present themselves as being socially available, interested, engaged, and involved in interacting -- while at the same time remaining emotionally withdrawn and sequestered within the safety of their internal world. Klein argues that withdrawal or detachment from the outer world is a characteristic feature of schizoid pathology but it is sometimes _overt_ and sometimes _covert, i.e., _hidden from others.
> 
> ...


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## VaDad (Nov 9, 2011)

So I'm more confused than ever.

I confronted her with the SPD possibility and she basically agreed that it seemed to ring true for her. I pushed on her to leave the house if she couldn't commit to the marriage and she balked. She said she's so afraid of everything... of leaving, but also of staying, and that she's not ready to make a decision.

I foolishly told her we should give it one more shot and asked her to put down the emotional baggage of the last year and just start fresh. I said we should approach each other totally differently since our previous habits weren't working, that we should throw caution to the wind and really commit to being married and if it didn't work then it didn't work. 

We'll she agreed and we spent the last two weeks being pretty nice to one another, but still zero emotional communication and zero commitment from her to change her coldness toward me. I finally kind of broke down when she sent me a calendar of her activities for the next month so we could coordinate schedules. Of the 50 things on her calendar, only one was anything with me... all of it was about her activities, job stuff, going to concerts with her friends, etc. I told her that I was a bit surprised that she didn't make any effort to schedule even a single date night. Of course, she immediately shot back that I was too sensitive and she couldn't do anything without hurting my feelings. 

That kind of did it for me. I've really started to realize, whether it's this SPD thing or something else. She's never going to be capable of loving me the way I love her, or the way I expect to be loved in a marriage. I'm hurt, but also sad for her, because I'm starting to realize that she really can't change, even if she wanted to. So now what. I've written a letter that basically offers an ultimatum. I hate putting it in a letter but she is incapable of rational emotional conversation...she just shuts down like a light switch.

I can't believe this but I've realized I don't WANT to be married to her anymore if this is the way it's going to be. I've spent the last year fighting to save my marriage, and now I see that I don't think what I was fighting for will ever exist. Maybe it was all a fabrication in my mind... that we were so strong and committed; really I've been fooling myself for years... ignoring her emotional distance and her coldness. See, I trusted that she loved me, which made all those things acceptable. Now that the trust is broken, the same behaviors seem so hurtful.

Not sure where to go from here... just so sad by the whole thing.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

VaDad, thanks so much for giving us an update of your situation. I am very sorry to hear that SPD traits, when you read about them, seem to so closely match her behavior. I would not wish it on anyone. I hope to respond to you in more detail within a few days. I would do so now but I had out-patient surgery this morning and am sitting her all spacey on pain pills. I don't trust myself to say anything useful in this condition. But I nonetheless do want to say I am so sorry and that I have not forgotten you.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

She can schedule going to concerts with her friends but no time for you, and yet you're being too sensitive. She doesn't want a husband, she just wants you as a roommate. That's not a marriage.


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## VaDad (Nov 9, 2011)

So now it gets even more confusing...

The day of my last post, I had written a long letter laying it all out on the line. Basically an ultimatum if you will about how I needed her attitude toward me to change or it was over. I wanted a wife, not a roommate and co-parent. I sent the note and added a "read receipt" so I could tell when she received it. We'll before I got an acknowledgement, she called and was very sweet... asking about making plans for dinner and how we should coordinate for some other activities...and how she was looking forward to getting a new dress (for the one activity we had planned together alone). I know that she went to IC that day, so perhaps something happened there?

I guess I'm gutless but I attempted to recall the e-mail before she read it just so I didn't cause a blow up that night.

Well I get home and she was super nice to me... actually a bit flirty. Sat next to me in our big chair and generally was quite affectionate (for her). Now, at this point, I have no idea if she ever read my e-mail or whether this was spontaneous. I never received confirmation that she read the note, so it is likely she never got it... weird coincidence that she's now being more affectionate and engaging with me??

Finally, I had been reading other threads on this forum, and don't laugh, but I spent some time reading a thread about sex in marriage and how assertiveness and "taking" what you want is really what women want. I have never been that way. I've always had a very high libido, but I was always more of an "ask permission" type guy. We'll, I shrugged, decided WTF, and didn't ask (very unlike me), just started to make a move, and well...it worked. 

Anyway, here we are a week later, and I feel like I've been in a strange dream for a week. My wife has been open, affectionate, engaging... we've talked about long term plans and added several near term activities to the calendar. The "intimacy" has been pretty amazing too.

Now I don't know what to think. She's obviously trying to make some changes, or has somehow "switched" off the resentment she has been carrying around. I want to believe it's genuine. I want to believe this is something that can be built on, but I'm very afraid to get too caught up in this given I was on the precipice of giving up... 

Anyone ever go through something like this. Is there hope? I'm spinning...


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## RunningOnEmpty (Aug 29, 2010)

She could have read the email, and declined to send the read confirmation. Some email clients let you do that. I personally never let Outlook send back the confirmation that I've read emails.

In any case, does it matter if she read it or not? Why not ask her?


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