# Wife has filed for Divorce after 2 weeks of separation



## dadof2 (May 9, 2014)

Well I checked the online court records and can see that she has filed a petition for divorce. I have not been served yet but I assume it will come any day.

When she moved out she told everyone it was only temporary and that she needed some space for a few months. How quickly that changed! Not even 3 weeks has passed and she already filed. She has not told me anything and her parents have said they haven't heard anything either.

I just don't understand. We had been amicable during the separation, actually with very little contact. I did nothing to set this in motion, but I guess this was all part of her plan.

What do I do when I get served? Do I call her and talk to her and wish her well? Do I call her parents, with whom I have a good relationship? Do I do anything? I have already spoken with a lawyer, and we already have separate bank accounts. I just don't know what my first reaction should be.


----------



## movealong (Aug 9, 2013)

dadof2 said:


> Well I checked the online court records and can see that she has filed a petition for divorce. I have not been served yet but I assume it will come any day.


Sorry to hear that. But, was it really unexpected or did your gut tell you it was coming?



dadof2 said:


> When she moved out she told everyone it was only temporary and that she needed some space for a few months. How quickly that changed! Not even 3 weeks has passed and she already filed. She has not told me anything and her parents have said they haven't heard anything either.


She is making it easy on herself. Less headaches to explain afterwards than before when someone might try and change her mind.



dadof2 said:


> I just don't understand. We had been amicable during the separation, actually with very little contact. I did nothing to set this in motion, but I guess *this was all part of her plan.*


There is no guessing now. This WAS her plan. Regardless of what you did or didn't do, she did this.



dadof2 said:


> What do I do when I get served? Do I call her and talk to her and wish her well? Do I call her parents, with whom I have a good relationship? Do I do anything? I have already spoken with a lawyer, and we already have separate bank accounts. I just don't know what my first reaction should be.


You sign for receipt of the Service of documents, then go get an attorney on retainer and protect yourself. She is already at least one if not two steps ahead of you. 

Your first reaction has already occurred: disbelief and sadness. Now, go protect yourself. Reach down into that well of strength inside of you and do the things that need to be done. Do not focus on what might have been, focus on what is and act accordingly. 

Reacting puts you in the victim chair, acting on your own behalf will start you on the road to getting back to who you are. Don't react, act!

Don't think about how you can get her back, think about protecting you and getting through this. If there is hope for your relationship, it will come after your strength has shown through. 

Do the 180 and don't procrastinate. The longer you wait to get going, the further behind you fall.


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Separations very often turn into divorces. The separating spouse apparently thinks it's an easier let down to say they want a temporary separation than just saying they want a divorce. Yes, that was her plan. 

If you were checking the records then you must have felt it was a possibility? I wouldn't react at all except through your attorney. Not to her parents or her or anyone who might talk to her. Go dark.


----------



## dadof2 (May 9, 2014)

Yes, I knew it was a possibility. I would just like to ask her why. Her reason for the separation was the classic, "I need space, I need to find myself." I stood by and let her move out. Not even 3 weeks later she files for divorce. We have 2 children, ages 3 and 2. I don't understand how she could willingly give up seeing them for half of the time just to get out of the marriage. She has not even attempted to make it work. She has totally walked away from our marriage and children.


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

You will never get the truth from her. She was gone before she ever moved out. 

Focus on your children and not her. She is too caught up in the fog to think too much about them. 

I know this is hard. But you'll get through it.


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Dadof2,

I suggest that you don't begin new threads because nothing unexpected has happened to start a new story.



> My wife and I have been married almost 5 years, we have 2 children ages 3 & 2. Things have been ok lately, not great but I figured we are just dealing with the daily grind of raising 2 kids and both working. We haven't had a lot of alone time with each other lately, but we both are to blame for that. Our sex life has been okay, *but almost always initiated by me.* About a month ago it came to light that she had been texting and seeing a coworker after hours. She is a school teacher and this guy is the PE coach who was running a workout group of 5-6 ladies after school. *Once caught, she admitted that they had kissed once*.


Your wife lost attraction for you. She did not kiss OM once. He has probably been screwing her brains out. That is why she ashamed to be around you.

Total 180. Pursue the divorce.

Is POSOM married? Expose him to his wife or SO. Put him on Cheaterville. Not your wife, just him. Suggested text:



> John Jones (whatever his name is) is a PE teacher who runs a workout class for his colleagues. He started an affair with one of them, a primary school teacher with small children. Once her adultery revealed itself the woman's marriage came to an abrupt end.


Add a Facebook picture of him.


----------



## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

dadof2 said:


> I have already spoken with a lawyer, and we already have separate bank accounts. I just don't know what my first reaction should be.


Your first reaction should be NO REACTION. You do absolutely nothing, you don't call her, you don't text her, Nada.

Your attorney will answer her complaint (through the court) within the statutory time-limit, and THAT will be your response.

I'm sorry for what you are going through.


----------



## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

LongWalk said:


> Dadof2,
> 
> I suggest that you don't begin new threads because nothing unexpected has happened to start a new story.
> 
> ...


This. Your wife was cheating before she left the marriage. Then she took steps to make sure you couldn't monitor her activities. And she doesn't want to talk to you because she feels some guilt for what she's doing. If she doesn't talk to you, she doesn't have to hear how pained you are. 

Does her parents know about the other dude? So if she starts introducing him to them, the name will click?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## dadof2 (May 9, 2014)

PBear said:


> This. Your wife was cheating before she left the marriage. Then she took steps to make sure you couldn't monitor her activities. And she doesn't want to talk to you because she feels some guilt for what she's doing. If she doesn't talk to you, she doesn't have to hear how pained you are.
> 
> Does her parents know about the other dude? So if she starts introducing him to them, the name will click?
> 
> ...


They may not know him by name, but they do know she "kissed" a co-worker from school. I don't think she would introduce him to her parents this quickly. She will prob keep it underground for a while with maybe only her close friends knowing about it.

As far as Cheaterville goes, I don't have any solid proof of a PA, but at this point, does it really matter? She will deny the affair to anyone she knows and just point at my actions on cheaterville as just another example that I am crazy and controlling.


----------



## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

The worse thing you can do is resists her on the D, if anything you should push it more than her. The more you fight her on the D, the more she will push for it. She sees you are the enemy so will instinctively want to do the opposite of what you want (even if it's in her own best interests). You need to throw logic right out the window because she is running on pure irrational emotion.

If you want to D more than her it will confuse her (she expects you to resist) and will make her rethink what's she is doing. She expects to be better off without you, but isn't counting on you being better off without her.

It's a bit of reverse psychology but it works.


----------



## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

dadof2 said:


> They may not know him by name, but they do know she "kissed" a co-worker from school. I don't think she would introduce him to her parents this quickly. She will prob keep it underground for a while with maybe only her close friends knowing about it.
> 
> As far as Cheaterville goes, I don't have any solid proof of a PA, but at this point, does it really matter? She will deny the affair to anyone she knows and just point at my actions on cheaterville as just another example that I am crazy and controlling.


You also didn't think she was going to file for divorce so quickly... I'm not saying you need to start a smear campaign... Just give them information so they can put two and two together later. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## dadof2 (May 9, 2014)

Should I go ahead and file as well? I see a record of the divorce document being filed with the court, but I cannot see the document. It was filed on May 8, almost a week ago. I do not know how long it takes to be served, I assume a few days?


----------



## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

dadof2 said:


> Should I go ahead and file as well? I see a record of the divorce document being filed with the court, but I cannot see the document. It was filed on May 8, almost a week ago. I do not know how long it takes to be served, I assume a few days?


You should be talking to a lawyer and taking direction from him. Tell him what you know. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Malpheous (May 3, 2013)

What sort of parenting schedule or custody order was in your MSA? Where are the children? With mom?

Lawyer. Today.


----------



## dadof2 (May 9, 2014)

We haven't signed any legal documents regarding the separation. The state we live in no longer recognized legal separation, all that is needed is documentation that we have lived apart for 365 days.

I have already met with a lawyer, and our bank accounts are separate to where she can't touch our savings and she has no credit card in my name.

We are currently splitting children 50/50, and I get them tonight for 2 nights. I am hoping to keep 50/50 going because I know that is the best I can get as a dad, but I love the kids and they are actually closer to me than their mother.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

If it was me I would smile, wish her the best, and have a positive additude....at least fake it until you make it.

I also suggest you start dating, nothing serious but get out there and meet people....show her that her bull crap won't keep you down.

She may see the confidence in you and start to think twice in what she is giving up...especially if you start seeing younger chicks.


Chicks like confident guys...so no matter how hard it is never show her how weak you really feel.


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Don’t not confront her or ask her any questions regarding the paperwork period. She is already building this “fear” of you from your other post. She wants the reaction out of you. You will never get a straight answer out of her anyway other than some random excuses which don’t make sense. 

Most states have time limits on when people can get served after filing and they differ in every state. Just sign the paperwork and leave it at that. As hard as it is you have every answer to your questions at that point. She wants a divorce, the reasoning behind her decision will taunt you as it did for so many. Your focus is now on divorce and that’s not what you want to hear but the more focused you are on that and your future the better you will be. 

Don’t talk to her family or friends about this, when the kids get dropped off or picked up don’t ask questions or try to give explanations. These will all just come back to haunt you later. Lawyer up, the system by design takes forever and you will not be able to repair or fix anything in a day and the truth usually unfolds itself given some time.


----------



## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

Dadof2,

You don't say anything to her when you get the papers. DO NOT GET BAITED INTO GIVING A REACTION. This will be used against you. If she is setting you up to appear a dangerous and controlling individual, she can file a restraining order against you. This can affect your job and your custody with the kids. You go dark. Cut off all contact with her except for children issues. Same goes for her family. 

As far as the papers go, you accept them. You bring them to your attorney immediately. You have to respond in a specified time from when you were served. Most likely you will file an answer and counterclaim. She's already moved out, so that is actually easier for you to maintain your custody. She's the one that abandoned and left. Not sure if you're in a fault state, but she's essentially deserted you. If you can prove adultery, she may be barred from receiving spousal support. Again, it depends on your state.

brother, I know you are hurting and I wish I had more advice for you. You take care of you and your kiddos at this point. I've been through this too. A lot of people on TAM have been too. 

I'll send you a PM with a little more info. 

HL


----------



## dadof2 (May 9, 2014)

helolover said:


> Dadof2,
> 
> You don't say anything to her when you get the papers. DO NOT GET BAITED INTO GIVING A REACTION. This will be used against you. If she is setting you up to appear a dangerous and controlling individual, she can file a restraining order against you. This can affect your job and your custody with the kids. You go dark. Cut off all contact with her except for children issues. Same goes for her family.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the advice. I really appreciate the insight on these forums. It is very hard to do, especially since my wife and kids have been my life for the last 5 years. This is so unexpected, and I just wish that my wife would have at least tried to make it work for the sake of our young kids. She is being selfish just to get what she wants and the fact that she is willing to split up time with the kids rather than try to work it out really disappoints me. This is not the person I married, but it is still so hard to let her go. I see her in everything and everywhere I go. Any time I leave the house I see things that trigger memories of our time together. I miss her companionship, I miss having my best friend around- someone who knows me like no one else does.

We have only been separated 3 weeks, and I just found out about the filing. It seems like I have a long way to go to begin to crawl out of this hole.


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Just be a good dad. Stick with the 50/50. Be cheerful. Do the 180. Probably your marriage is shot. But if you are overweight, lose it. Work out hard. Reduce alcohol consumption.

Get into your hobbies.

Get a new haircut.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

dadof2 said:


> Thanks for the advice. I really appreciate the insight on these forums. It is very hard to do, especially since my wife and kids have been my life for the last 5 years. This is so unexpected, and I just wish that my wife would have at least tried to make it work for the sake of our young kids. She is being selfish just to get what she wants and the fact that she is willing to split up time with the kids rather than try to work it out really disappoints me. This is not the person I married, but it is still so hard to let her go. I see her in everything and everywhere I go. Any time I leave the house I see things that trigger memories of our time together. I miss her companionship, I miss having my best friend around- someone who knows me like no one else does.
> 
> We have only been separated 3 weeks, and I just found out about the filing. It seems like I have a long way to go to begin to crawl out of this hole.


Here is what you do. 

Get a bunch of boxes. 

Go through the entire house gathering every picture, album, momento and keepsake that reminds you of the marriage and of her. Box them all up and set them out on the porch. If she has favorit funitiure items you know she will want, gather all those up and move them into a garage or covered place. 

When you have done this, send her an e-mail very succinct and businesslike. Give her a deadline to come and pick up the boxes and furniture, Tell her to let you know when she is coming so you can make sure you have a friend with you to oversee the pickup. 

Tell her if she fails to pick up the materials by the deadline, the pictures and keepsakes will be piled in the backyard and burned, or thrown in the dumpster, and the furniture will be taken to Goodwill. 

Stop playing nice. She wants an end to the marriage? Give her an end to the marriage.


----------



## WolverineFan (Nov 26, 2013)

I wouldn't recommend doing what I did - I freaked out and called her in an emotional wreck. I scared the death out of her and she thought I was suicidal. I don't know how to explain this but knowing it is coming and seeing it in your hand are two different things. I thought I would be ok but I wasn't. When I read the words in black-and-white my heart just shattered.

Have the two of you been to counseling at all? What are you doing to have support in your life? I don't know if you attend church or not but isolation is a killer. Getting into a men's group could be very helpful.

If you want to contact your wife after being served, you may want to do it in a calm and collected manner. I highly recommend that you purchase a book titled _Love Must Be Tough: New Hope For Marriages in Crisis_ by Dr. James Dobson. It is excellent and will provide some very practical steps for you to take.

My heart goes out to you. I remember that moment in my life when I was served and wouldn't wish it on anyone. If you are interested in additional resources that may help I can provide it if you send me a private message. I work for a Marriage & Family Ministry and do not usually post links in my responses. Please know that my prayers are with you!


----------



## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

honcho said:


> u will never get a straight answer out of her anyway other than some random excuses which don’t make sense.


:iagree::iagree: 

This is known as "gas lighting." Blaming all kinds of sh*t on you that has NOTHING to do with WHY she cheated (other than in her OWN twisted mind.)


----------



## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

dadof2 said:


> Thanks for the advice... this is so unexpected, and I just wish that my wife would have at least tried to make it work for the sake of our young kids... I see her in everything and everywhere I go. Any time I leave the house I see things that trigger memories of our time together. I miss her companionship, I miss having my best friend around- someone who knows me like no one else does.


We ALL know just how you feel. We all know what you want. But this "want" doesn't "magically" turn her back in to the woman you married. That woman is GONE.

Focus on WHAT IS IN FRONT OF YOU, rather than what you've lost, what is behind you.

Do the 180, HARD. It is the only chance of recovering your marriage IF anything is salvageable.


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Hey Do2, you are getting some good advice on here.

I just wanted to write to warn you that there is a very likely possibility when you are served and you read the divorce papers she will try to rake you over the coals in every way, including with custody of your kids. She will likely be seeking full custody, as well as alimony and child support. I am merely suggesting this so if it happens you again won't "react" rather you will know which of the many possible plans you have already created, you will choose to enact.

If she is going to play dirty (and seems she will since she has already trickle truthed you about her affair, as well as the fact that she has filed without mentioning it to you) then you will have to play dirtier.

Do not give an inch, and do not ever negotiate away time with your kids, fight for as much as you can, seek full custody right off the bat.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Do2 I hope you are still here my friend.
There is help here you have nothing to be ashamed about.
Peace. It will get better.


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Yes once you get the paperwork and read thru it don’t take too much stock in what is wrote. You will take it personal but most of it is just attorney rhetoric. You know already the paperwork it out there somewhere so the initial shock of surprise wont hit your emotions so hard. 

This is why you have an attorney in place now is important. This is part of the hurry up and wait game. It feels like a whirlwind the first couple of weeks but the temp hearing comes quick and most of what is set in the temp order stays in place till the final and that can take forever.

Do not fall into the “nice guy” I don’t want to rock the boat and make her mad by fighting what she wants in the temp order. Your instinct will be to play nice, listen to your lawyer and don’t, take a stand and show her you are done. Do what you feel is best for you and your kids, not what is best for her or getting her back. You will understand in time.


----------



## dadof2 (May 9, 2014)

honcho said:


> Yes once you get the paperwork and read thru it don’t take too much stock in what is wrote. You will take it personal but most of it is just attorney rhetoric. You know already the paperwork it out there somewhere so the initial shock of surprise wont hit your emotions so hard.
> 
> This is why you have an attorney in place now is important. This is part of the hurry up and wait game. It feels like a whirlwind the first couple of weeks but the temp hearing comes quick and most of what is set in the temp order stays in place till the final and that can take forever.
> 
> Do not fall into the “nice guy” I don’t want to rock the boat and make her mad by fighting what she wants in the temp order. Your instinct will be to play nice, listen to your lawyer and don’t, take a stand and show her you are done. Do what you feel is best for you and your kids, not what is best for her or getting her back. You will understand in time.



I have heard from others that she will make all sorts of claims in the divorce papers. From what I understand it is a scare tactic used by attorneys.

Right now I am trying to come to grips with the fact that our marriage is over. She has gone out of her way to make sure that we do not see each other, even as far as re-arranging the custody schedule so that all child swaps are made at daycare. I don't understand why she won't even see me. I have not been needy or clingy at all, and I don't think she is physically afraid of me. Maybe she is just trying to keep from seeing me so she doesn't have to acknowledge her own guilt? But if she filed this quickly and hasn't even told me about it, I doubt she is feeling much guilt at all. I don't think she understands that we are going to have to see each other at some point in our lives. Right now she is acting like whatever happens to the kids on her time with them is none of my business.

During our discussion about the separation, she was fine with 50/50 custody, but she was also telling me it was a temporary separation. I would be surprised if she wants full custody but at this point nothing should surprise me.

I am wondering why I haven't received the papers yet? They were filed last Thursday, so I guess there is a backlog that takes time to get out. I almost wish I could go ahead and get them so I know what I am up against.


----------



## Malpheous (May 3, 2013)

Check but you may still be able to file for a Temp Custody Order to govern the time split during the 365 day period. If you can, it may be, very much so, in your best interest to attain one.


----------



## dadof2 (May 9, 2014)

The secretary at my attorney's office was able to get me a copy of the petition. It has not been signed by a judge and she said it will prob be another week before I am served.

The petition itself is very detailed and pretty scathing. I understand this is how it usually goes, but it is still hard to see it in writing how she really feels about me.

A few of the highlights: 
- Joint custody 50/50 schedule with her being the domiciiary parent

- Child support based on state laws to be paid twice a month (no $ amount listed)

- All insurance policies, coverages, and beneficiaries to remain the same during separation

- She does not have sufficient income for maintenace, requests interim spousal support permanent spousal support in due course. In lieu of interim spousal support, she asks that I pay all insurance policies and daycare costs.

- restraining order on community property

- restraining order for harassment. Says she fears for her safety and that of children. I cannot be within 100 yards of her, her house, her employment and cannot contact her. Asks for permanent injunction in due course

- all attorney fees paid from community property

- asks the court to order me a mental evaluation for anger management issues.

It also lists a joint custody and visitation plan. Spells out holidays and birthdays as well as summer vacations, etc. Very detailed. 

She obviously did her homework, and is trying to paint herself as a helpless victim of physical and mental abuse, but makes no specific allegations.

We do not have any community debt, our house and both vehicles are paid for. That is what allowed her to leave and rent an apartment for $1100 a month. But now she is claiming she doesn't make enough and needs spousal support.

I have a meeting set up with my attorney, but it is not for almost 2 weeks. I haven't mentioned it earlier, but we are very well off, my family is very wealthy and hers is not hurting. She makes around 42K as a teacher and I make $100K+. We have around $300K in net community assets, and she has moved out of the family home and does not want ownership of it.

Let me know what you guys think.


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Hey Do2, sorta nasty when they lay out their demands like that isn't it? A lot of the tact depends on the jurisdiction you are in, for instance if you are in a no-fault state things tend to be less nasty unless she just is unreasonable.

Hopefully your lawyer can demonstrate some confidence for you, and has some proven experience in the field.

My own personal thoughts on the matter are that 1) she made a mistake by seeking 50/50 while at the same time asking for a RO for the safety of her kids - any reasonable judge would look at this and unless you have a documented history of violence would see right through her ploy - which hopefully will gain you extra credibility. I don't think it would be reasonable for you to be prohibited from community property (especially as she chose to move out of it) but if she wants an RO for her own property after the settlement I don't see why that would really matter all that much for you, apart from making transition of the kids difficult.

2) IIWY, I would counter with 50/50 custody with you as primary custodian.

3) regarding insurance policies, I would seek that any survivor benefits to her not be required but that any benefits for the kids remain the same, with her as a trustee - I think this is pretty standard, and likewise, if she is paying for any insurance policies the same requirements should be placed on her.

4) She is gainfully employed and does not need interim or permanent spousal support to be able to subsist, IIWY I would fight this part adamantly, and also spousal support is not supposed to be for things like daycare or other expenses that would fall under child support (which you should enthusiastically by willing to accept as part of the state guidelines, since you are indeed the higher earner and want your kids to have the same quality of life in both homes)

5) there is nothing wrong about a detailed parenting schedule, in fact I recommend it for you either way, as long as it is fair and in the best interests of your kids.

6) paying legal fees out of community property would be fine if she wasn't going to play nasty (in my case once me and my ex had our agreements in place she changed her terms at the last minute to get me to pay her legal expenses)... tread carefully on this because if you agree to pay her legal costs she may decide to escalate her forces with a costly army of lawyers and take this through the courts dramatically.

Try not to lose any sleep over this, there will be a lot of waiting on others (lawyers, courts, judges etc).


----------



## dadof2 (May 9, 2014)

Lon said:


> Hey Do2, sorta nasty when they lay out their demands like that isn't it? A lot of the tact depends on the jurisdiction you are in, for instance if you are in a no-fault state things tend to be less nasty unless she just is unreasonable.
> 
> Hopefully your lawyer can demonstrate some confidence for you, and has some proven experience in the field.


We are in a no fault state, and the petition says that since she is not at any fault, there is no reason that she shouldn't get spousal support. She admitted to "kissing" another man, and I have text messages with a flirting conversation between them, but I don't know if that will mean anything.



> My own personal thoughts on the matter are that 1) she made a mistake by seeking 50/50 while at the same time asking for a RO for the safety of her kids - any reasonable judge would look at this and unless you have a documented history of violence would see right through her ploy - which hopefully will gain you extra credibility. I don't think it would be reasonable for you to be prohibited from community property (especially as she chose to move out of it) but if she wants an RO for her own property after the settlement I don't see why that would really matter all that much for you, apart from making transition of the kids difficult.


That struck me right off the bat as well. If she is so worried about her & kids safety, then why agree to 50/50? Granted she did put in there that all child swaps will occur at daycare, so she will not have to be in my presence. But once summer starts, the kids will not be in daycare so we will have to meet each other for swaps.



> 2) IIWY, I would counter with 50/50 custody with you as primary custodian.


I agree, I don't see why she should arbitrarily be the primary. I make more money, I am keeping the marital home, and I have proven to be a loving father.



> 4) She is gainfully employed and does not need interim or permanent spousal support to be able to subsist, IIWY I would fight this part adamantly, and also spousal support is not supposed to be for things like daycare or other expenses that would fall under child support (which you should enthusiastically by willing to accept as part of the state guidelines, since you are indeed the higher earner and want your kids to have the same quality of life in both homes)


I also agree. She makes decent enough money to cover her living expenses. I understand I will have to pay CS, but I want to do everything in my power to keep from paying her one cent of spousal support.




> 6) paying legal fees out of community property would be fine if she wasn't going to play nasty (in my case once me and my ex had our agreements in place she changed her terms at the last minute to get me to pay her legal expenses)... tread carefully on this because if you agree to pay her legal costs she may decide to escalate her forces with a costly army of lawyers and take this through the courts dramatically.
> 
> Try not to lose any sleep over this, there will be a lot of waiting on others (lawyers, courts, judges etc).


I assume that community property would mean we both use our joint savings to pay our respective lawyers? If so, that is ok with me, it's less she will walk away with in the end.

We have a rental property that she owned before we were married, and about 1 year ago we paid it off in full. The house has been sold and will close in a few weeks. Being that the house is in her name she will get the check by herself and she has told me she will put it in a savings account in her name only. My lawyer said I have a claim on reimbursement for the amount of community funds used to pay off the mortgage no matter if she spends every dime of it.


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Agree that 50/50 custody with a dangerous guy is not logical. Probably she wants you to babysit 50% of the time so that she can devote herself to her new relationship(s). Don't be surprized if she goes from one POSOM to another.

You may save money through mediation.

The other house will of course in part be community property.

I forget, did you ever check the phone bill to see how much see texted and called OM's number?

How old is your WW? Is this a midlife crisis?


----------



## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Hang in there, dadof2...


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

If its no fault, then yes the reason for divorce doesn't weigh on any rulings - so no point in demonstrating her infidelity. Unless of course there are time limitations on the divorce (for instance, where I lived I convinced my ex to sign an affidavit of adultery in order to bypass the 12 month separation before the divorce decree was official).

Community property to pay lawyers would mean that AFTER the lawyers all take their share, then whatever is left of assets is divided amongst you, so if she decides to wrack up a whole string of legal drama, you will be paying a whole bunch of lawyers to draft up demands going after you. Kind of a conflict of interest there, so it may be better to each retain independent counsel paid for out of each own's portion of the equity (the lawyer that drafts the agreements and files orders - ie hers, costs more).

Seems you got a good handle on it... if there are things you feel are not quite right with your lawyer definitely share your concerns here or seek second legal opinions. What you agree to in writing, or are ordered to conform to now will be in effect for quite some time.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

She wants you to get a psych evaluation you through your lawyer request that she gets one also.


----------



## dadof2 (May 9, 2014)

> Seems you got a good handle on it... if there are things you feel are not quite right with your lawyer definitely share your concerns here or seek second legal opinions. What you agree to in writing, or are ordered to conform to now will be in effect for quite some time.


One thing I am not sure on-

This petition lists several demands, such as child support, spousal support, and that I seek counseling. If I sign that I was served, does this mean I agree to all of this?


----------



## dadof2 (May 9, 2014)

tom67 said:


> She wants you to get a psych evaluation you through your lawyer request that she gets one also.


I was thinking the same thing. She has a dependency on Adderall and Xanax so I will bring that to light.


----------



## dadof2 (May 9, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> Agree that 50/50 custody with a dangerous guy is not logical. Probably she wants you to babysit 50% of the time so that she can devote herself to her new relationship(s). Don't be surprized if she goes from one POSOM to another.


That's what I have been thinking. If I am so terrible and she is afraid for the kids safety, then why give me half of the custody? I agree that she wants to enjoy her free time. Basically through child support I am paying her and babysitting her kids half the time while she is out playing the field.




> I forget, did you ever check the phone bill to see how much see texted and called OM's number?
> 
> How old is your WW? Is this a midlife crisis?


When she was still living in the house I downloaded a program that allowed me to read deleted text messages. That is how I found out about the OM. Since then I had access to her phone records for about a week, but there were no phone calls to OM. She could have very well been texting, because they both have Iphones that use Imessage, which does not show up on the bill. She also changed her Facebook passwords and friended OM on FB, so there was the option of Facebook Messaging as well.

She is 30 years old. Too young for midlife crisis. But she was a SAHM for 3 years and went back to work this year. Over the last year she became obsessed with losing weight and her looks. She has been taking adderall daily for the last 6 months or so. Also a xanax and a large drink at night to sleep. I believe she is clinically depressed but has never seen a psych. When she went back to work this year, I believe that she was getting attention from OM and realized that there is more to life than being married to me.


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Re: Wife has filed for Divorce after 2 weeks of separation*



dadof2 said:


> I was thinking the same thing. She has a dependency on Adderall and Xanax so I will bring that to light.


If you are gong to request psych eval, then go all the way: full custody, retaining order etc. I don't think it is wise to play games or try to manipulate the judge though.


----------



## movinonup (May 6, 2014)

"One thing I am not sure on-

This petition lists several demands, such as child support, spousal support, and that I seek counseling. If I sign that I was served, does this mean I agree to all of this?" 

Unless I'm crazy, absolutely not. You are signing saying you received the papers, your response to the petition will list your "demands" and "answers"


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

movinonup said:


> "One thing I am not sure on-
> 
> This petition lists several demands, such as child support, spousal support, and that I seek counseling. If I sign that I was served, does this mean I agree to all of this?"
> 
> Unless I'm crazy, absolutely not. You are signing saying you received the papers, your response to the petition will list your "demands" and "answers"


:iagree:
Your lawyer will file a reply to each demand on the complaint.
You are just signing that you have been served.
Once you have been you call your lawyer and the ball gets rolling but it could be months before the next court date.


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

You stated earlier that you need to be separated for a year in your state. This is usually waived in states for one of two reasons and that is adultery or abuse. She wont admit to adultery so she makes up abuse. It gets your case into the system faster.

So right now for all your wondering what, how and why is she thinking like this that is probably what it came down to. Not any factual claims of abuse. The important part today right now is that you no she has laid the groundwork to try to a restraining order. DO NOT under any circumstances talk or communicate with her or her family. All this will do is add fuel to her claims and she is banking on a reaction out of you. 

Everything goes thru your lawyer for the short term right now. Even if she texts or calls you do not respond. Being served does not say you agree to anything. It only means you legally received the paperwork and nothing more. 

Your heart is going to tell you that if you could just talk to her you could straighten everything out and it wont. Seal your world off from her right now and while that seems counterproductive its your best long term move. Have your lawyer file a counter-claim for divorce and ask for full custody a freeze on the money from the house closing, take an offensive. Its all just lawyer posturing really but its how the game is played. Do not agree to atty fees paid by community property, all she really wants is you to pay for her laywer.


----------



## Malpheous (May 3, 2013)

Ok...

Counter with 50/50 listing you as primary custodial/legal.

Based on initial offer and agreement to 50/50 counter to strike and remove the RO for Harassment. You cannot be a 50/50 parent and a danger to your children.

Based on 50/50 offer counter to strike and remove request for Psych eval. If it stays then counter for her to participate as well, or for the cost to be paid by her out of non-marital property.

Counter for no Spousal. Her earning ability doesn't merit it. No other argument. She can self-sustain, comfortably, is all there is to it.

Daycare is paid by the party using it. Don't get trapped in paying or sharing the payment. Need to get it paid by the using party. Make sure you have a good ROFR also.

CS calc:
Your state will usually have a basic percentage of whatever income. I'll give my example using NY, and your numbers in ballpark, since I know the numbers.

1 child - 17% of net income

50/50 custody so I won this argument for a variance from "the norm".

100k + 50k - 150k * .17 = 25500
100k/150k = .67 or 67%
50k/150k = .33 or 33%
25500 *.67 = 17085
25500 *.33 = 8415

So your contribution in ratio should be 17085
Hers would be 8415

17085-8415 = 8670 <- This is the difference to balance the CD based on ratio and 50/50 custody.

So 8670/26 = 333.46 every two weeks.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Her being addicted to two prescription meds is serious and will get worse if untreated.
That has to be addressed.
Maybe your lawyer will want to get an expert on addictions to testify.
It's not cheap but I think that is important because of the kids.


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Re: Wife has filed for Divorce after 2 weeks of separation*



tom67 said:


> Her being addicted to two prescription meds is serious and will get worse if untreated.
> That has to be addressed.
> Maybe your lawyer will want to get an expert on addictions to testify.
> It's not cheap but I think that is important because of the kids.


It may need to be addressed, but unless the point is to prove she is an unfit parent the court doesn't want to hear it. And if she were unfit well then Do2 would never have allowed her to have custody under their current separation arrangement. Only reason to put it in petition at this point is to play nasty.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Lon said:


> It may need to be addressed, but unless the point is to prove she is an unfit parent the court doesn't want to hear it. And if she were unfit well then Do2 would never have allowed her to have custody under their current separation arrangement. Only reason to put it in petition at this point is to play nasty.


I agree.
Just something to use later if things go south but the drugs with the alcohol will scramble her brain over time.
Maybe during her psych evaluation this will come to light anyway I just threw it out there.


----------



## dadof2 (May 9, 2014)

Lon said:


> It may need to be addressed, but unless the point is to prove she is an unfit parent the court doesn't want to hear it. And if she were unfit well then Do2 would never have allowed her to have custody under their current separation arrangement. Only reason to put it in petition at this point is to play nasty.


I don't want to throw wild accusations out there because I know it will make me look petty. I'm sure the judge has seen it all so I don't want to piss her off.

But I would like to get something in there about her needing an evaluation. I don't think she is an unfit mother but if she is gonna claim abuse from me then I would like to make some kind of accusation on her.


----------



## movinonup (May 6, 2014)

Be real careful with this Do2, things can get petty real fast. She accuses you, then you accuse her, then it gets to a point where you find a list of things which can inform a judge that you find her to be an unfit mother. Tread lightly. Think about it before you do anything, to make sure you're not potentially taking your kids mom away from them because you're pissed. Been there man.


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Don’t delve into the just wild claims part of this. 14 months in this nightmare all I can tell you is the stories will get weirder, dumber and more ludicrous as it goes. Stick with the facts. She is committing adultery and leave it at that. 

The courts have seen and heard it all and by the time this journey ends no one will even care why you got divorced. The more you just deal with factual, can prove stuff the better you will be. She will demonize you to friends and family and short term it will be effective, long term they start to see the situation for what it truly is and the more rational and level headed you look during this course the more people will see who is truthful. 

Don’t worry about pissing her off…legally. This is not your concern anymore. She will want to make a soap opera out of the process and the lawyers love that part as they make lots of money and of course why she wants community assets to pay lawyer. In the end its all money and numbers and that’s all the courts really care about anyway.


----------



## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

honcho said:


> The courts have seen and heard it all and by the time this journey ends no one will even care why you got divorced. The more you just deal with factual, can prove stuff the better you will be.


^ ^ ^

:iagree: This! 

So true, so true. The courts really don't give a rat's a$$ why you are divorcing. Their only focus is to split the assets equitably and make sure the kids are safe and cared for. Beyond that, they really don't care about any of the drama. The histrionics and "he said/she said" will ONLY drive up attorney fees and drag this out. The end result will be the same: the assets will get split and you both will likely get 50/50 custody.

As honcho said, stick to the facts. Your counter complaint is adultery. Whether your state has "grounds" or not, be sure to enter "adultery" on your answer to her petition. It will forever be a part of the court record.


----------



## dadof2 (May 9, 2014)

happy as a clam said:


> ^ ^ ^
> 
> :iagree: This!
> 
> ...


I agree about sticking to the facts. I have not met my lawyer yet but she comes highly recommend and is supposed to be a pit bull. She also is also a former law partner with the judge that will be hearing our case. I do want to put adultery in my counter, but I cannot prove a sexual relationship. But maybe if I throw it out there it may get STBX to back off. I am going to ask for the RO to be removed. Basically she wants me to get kids 50/50 but somehow I am dangerous? Hopefully that will not be hard to have stricken from the record.

I will also go ask to be made domiciliary parent. I'm not sure what the criteria is for that but I would think I have just as good a claim as she does.

STBX texted me yesterday asking if she could take the kids with her for a weeks vacation with her parents for the first week of June. I said that it's ok with me, nothing I can do at this point to stop her. It just sucks that she keeps finding ways to avoid reality. Every weekend she has the kids she goes to her parents 50 miles away so she won't have to be "stuck" with the children all weekend. Now for her first week off (she is a teacher) she gets to go sit on the beach with her parents as I don't see my kids for 7 days. Not fair.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Rarely even in at fault states does the final divorce decree show adultery, its almost always the ever encompassing “no fault”. You can make the claim now without proof and this is all part of the lawyer games as they can file for depositions, motions for discovery and the usual nonsense. Just as she has done with the claims of abuse you are trying to get the one year separation clause out of the way. 

Don’t correspond with your stbx on any subject till you get in and see the lawyer. Your standard answer for everything right now is let the lawyers discuss that. Just about anything else can bite you later. If her parents want the kids to come on vacation let them ask you, not her.


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Hey Do2, not sure which part you mean is unfair. If you want to take your kids on holidays with you that is your prerogative, however if you feel that she is just going to shunt them off on someone else instead of being responsible for their care you can exercise a right of first refusal, something that you should have clear terms spelled out in the separation agreement.


----------



## dadof2 (May 9, 2014)

One thing I haven't seen much discussion here is about the STBX's parents. I know as part of the 180 that you are not supposed to contact the ex or her family, and so far I haven't. My wife is 30 years old, and she still leans on her parents a lot for advice and things like that. Her parents have always liked me, and we get along great. That is part of what hurts so bad. I miss talking to them and I know they are supporting their daughter, but I would like to know how they feel about all of this. I know they can't "make" their daughter not divorce me, but I don't think they are going to stand in her way either.

My STBX does not have any level headed, longtime friends that she confides in. Right now the only people she is talking to are co-workers who I have never met that are divorced, some with small kids. I think this is poisoning her thoughts and solidifying her decision to leave. And her parents seem to be to the point of merely pacifying her and supporting her, not reasoning with her. I know she is not thinking rationally anyway, but I hate to think that they will stand idly by through this whole process and never sit down with her and at least try to get her to slow down. She filed less than 2 weeks after moving out, all the while telling me, her parents, and my parents that it is only temporary.

Just wondering if anyone else has been in this situation. I know a lot of you guys are a little older and may not need parental advice, but we are still relatively young and we both have good relationships with our parents. I just find it hard to think that they would not step in at some point because this is the most serious thing in our lives. We have two small children, and I know we all want what is best for them, but I hate to think her parents would let her throw it all away at the risk of her being mad at them for trying to reason with her.


----------



## movealong (Aug 9, 2013)

Her parents will not step in for fear of losing access to her and the grandkids. You, on the other hand, are expendable. When it comes right down to where the rubber meets the road, you will be the tread marks left behind. They may well love you. The may well want you to be part of their lives. But one or two phrases from her about how they are "on your side" and buddy you're getting thrown under the bus by her parents.

Stick to the 180. Maybe, MAYBE, if you feel a need, send a quick email to her parents and just say "I am here if you have any questions or want to talk". Nothing else, just those words. You can't alienate them from her, but she can sure alienate them from you. Best bet is to just leave them alone.


----------



## dadof2 (May 9, 2014)

movealong said:


> Her parents will not step in for fear of losing access to her and the grandkids. You, on the other hand, are expendable. When it comes right down to where the rubber meets the road, you will be the tread marks left behind. They may well love you. The may well want you to be part of their lives. But one or two phrases from her about how they are "on your side" and buddy you're getting thrown under the bus by her parents.
> 
> Stick to the 180. Maybe, MAYBE, if you feel a need, send a quick email to her parents and just say "I am here if you have any questions or want to talk". Nothing else, just those words. You can't alienate them from her, but she can sure alienate them from you. Best bet is to just leave them alone.


I agree about me being expendable to them. At the end of the day, as long as they have their daughter and grandkids around, then they can do just fine with out me.

STBX's sister just called me this morning. She has been out of contact with her sister and parents for the last week. The sister is very rational and she thinks they aren't talking to her because they know she will not see things their way. Apparently STBX told her parents that our marriage counselor said that we both need to get individual counseling right now and worry about MC later. She also told them that she is scared of me and that there has been pushing and hitting in our relationship. I admit we have had some wild arguments, but I have never hit her. I would say our arguments are like everyone else's- yelling, tempers flaring and even throwing objects around the house. But to never say anything for 5 years and then all of a sudden she tells her parents I have been doing all this to her seems a little vindictive. But her parents believe her and are trying to comfort her from me- the big scary monster. My mother in law told my wife's sister that she doesn't need to be on my side in all of this. She said they need to rally around STBX and calm her fears.


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Any dealings with the in-laws right now is going to be just spun by your stbx that you are manipulative, you can let her go and your controlling. The stories will get crazier too. 

Her parents will pacify her and throw the blinders on at least in the beginning. I know and understand exactly what and why you want to talk to them and it’s a battle you just will not win right now. They are in shock and denial too as this is all still new to everyone. They may always take her side no matter how much you talk and how much evidence you show them. My stbx family is just that way, the kids could never do any wrong.

You have to be patient, you are going to have to let time start to show the cracks in her stories, you have to let everyones emotions calm down including yours. None of this is going to get sorted out in a few days. Her family knows how to get a hold of you. They know you are available to talk to. Leave it at that for now.


----------



## dadof2 (May 9, 2014)

honcho said:


> Any dealings with the in-laws right now is going to be just spun by your stbx that you are manipulative, you can let her go and your controlling. The stories will get crazier too.
> 
> Her parents will pacify her and throw the blinders on at least in the beginning. I know and understand exactly what and why you want to talk to them and it’s a battle you just will not win right now. They are in shock and denial too as this is all still new to everyone. They may always take her side no matter how much you talk and how much evidence you show them. My stbx family is just that way, the kids could never do any wrong.
> 
> You have to be patient, you are going to have to let time start to show the cracks in her stories, you have to let everyones emotions calm down including yours. None of this is going to get sorted out in a few days. Her family knows how to get a hold of you. They know you are available to talk to. Leave it at that for now.


I agree with everything you are saying. It was nice to talk to my sister-in-law today, especially since she is the only one that does not automatically believe everything my W is saying. I do feel like that will stir up more drama, however. Being that I know the papers are filed, I need to go dark on everyone especially after being served. My question is, is it ok if I respond to their text messages? No one will talk to me but even W will text to check on kids or schedules etc. I have just been responding very minimally.

It just hurts to know what I am up against. With her asking for a RO and saying I am abusive, I have no way to prove that I am not. Her parents will believe her, but they have known me for 6 years and this is the first time my W has ever made the abuse claim. And also her friends at work will feed into the abusive husband story to help her feel better about leaving. I don't get it at all.

Once I get served I don't even think I will tell the STBX. I'm sure at some point she will text me about the kids, but I won't say "BTW I got served yesterday"


----------



## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

I'm really sorry to hear this. I wouldn't say anything to her or her parents at all, they, whether you like it or not, are the enemy. You have to protect yourself from her although the courts will likely give her 60 to 70% of everything since you have two small kids (I suspect that part of the reason she's moving so fast, she's realized that she can cash in). I suggest that you find out any dirt on her at all you can, things that will likely piss her off when you announce it in court. Things like bad reviews at work and taking it out on the kids, anything that may look even remotely as an affair...really dig at the things you know piss her off. If you can show the court she gets mad and will likely do this around the kids, they may give you more custody and make you pay less. I seen this happen many times and these strategies usually work for men. I wish you the best of luck. Never back down and let her have something, always contest everything.


----------



## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

dadof2 said:


> Once I get served I don't even think I will tell the STBX. I'm sure at some point she will text me about the kids, but I won't say "BTW I got served yesterday"


EXCELLENT! Don't mention a word of it. If she asks you if you got served, tell her you only want to talk about the kids. Her lawyer can call your lawyer about legal matters.

You've gotten some great advice here. I suggest you print it out and have it on hand when you speak with your attorney.

As for the abuse allegations, the restraining order, legal maneuvers, blah blah blah, this is the way these things go. All you can do right now is speak to your attorney about your best strategy to combat court proceedings. Maybe you need to file your own RO against her, your attorney will know.

Don't worry about what she says to people right now. All you have to do is answer, "Well, she is having an affair with XXXX and she is lying about everything." Period. End. Most people don't want to be involved, so don't worry what they think. 

The best thing you can do right now is be a model dad and a pillar of strength for your kids. Document EVERYTHING... send emails to yourself (time-stamping is important for the court) documenting when she picks them up, when she drops them off, any activities you and the kids are doing, etc.

Hang in there, it's a bumpy road. Many of us have been down the "nasty divorce/use the kids as pawns" brought on by spouses who just want to "win."

The truth will come out. Talk to your attorney.


----------



## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

dadof2, 
It doesn't seem to me there is an actual RO on you right now. You probably see in her divorce complaint language about you not bothering her at home or work. That isn't a RO. Also, you aren't legally bound by anything in her complaint until a judge makes a ruling on it. You will most likely file a response and counterclaim. If it will be a long time before the divorce trial, there may be a "pendente lite" hearing to make temporary orders of custody, child support and alimony. Those orders are binding and will probably used as the basis for settling later at pre-trial settlement or actual trial.

As mentioned by many posters before, I also recommend you leave her family alone. If they contact you, fine. If not, fine. You handle yourself with class, dignity and restraint. Keep things business like at all times. If they are trying to paint a picture of you as a dangerous monster, then make sure you act the opposite. I know you are feeling rejected and marginalized by your stbx This hurts. Make sure you have a support network and guy friends right now. 

Take great care of yourself and your kiddos when you have them.


----------



## dadof2 (May 9, 2014)

helolover said:


> dadof2,
> As mentioned by many posters before, I also recommend you leave her family alone. If they contact you, fine. If not, fine. You handle yourself with class, dignity and restraint. Keep things business like at all times. If they are trying to paint a picture of you as a dangerous monster, then make sure you act the opposite. I know you are feeling rejected and marginalized by your stbx This hurts. Make sure you have a support network and guy friends right now.


Agreed. I think the plan is to go dark from her on out except anything to do with our children. That's the only communication I have been having with STBX anyway. I am trying not to give them any ammo to paint me as the monster, anytime they text me I am very cheerful in my answer, even if I want to rip their heads off.

You guys in here are great. I have been down in the dumps and feeling hopeless ever since this whole fiasco started almost 2 months ago. It is nice to come here and bounce things off of each other and get advice from people who have been down this road. I still want to blame myself for her leaving, Lord knows she gave me a list of what I did wrong. But I am not going to give her that power- the power of making me feel bad while she is feeling liberated.

Every day is a new battle, but I have found great comfort in reading these forums.


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

My ex in-laws got along great with me too, and I know it saddens them that they lost a son in this - I think they would still like me to be a part of their family, but I am fortunate enough that they respect the distance I have put between them and I. I am still civil, and still see them on occassion when they are spending time with my son (their grandchild), they even help me out from time to time by being willing to take care of him if things come up that neither my ex nor I can be be available (I don't have any family of my own in this city to help me out that way).

The thing I discovered early on about all this, is that despite whatever wrongs my ex did to all of us, the ex in-laws just could not grasp why I no longer trusted her... as sympathetic as they tried to be, they did not feel any shred of the betrayal that I suffered. And as my ex has moved along swiftly in new relationships and her new marriage, she seemingly has the full family support in all of it, the way they supported my marriage to her not all that long ago - its like they just switched teams with no hesitation (and that kind of hurts to think about, even if their was no maliciousness behind any of it).


----------



## dadof2 (May 9, 2014)

STBX texted me this morning about changing the custody schedule next week due to her going on vacation. I told her that would be fine I will get in touch with her this afternoon.

We haven't spoken on the phone in almost 3 weeks. Have not seen each other in a month. She has told everyone that I make her nervous and anxious. We have only communicated through texts lately. Should I call her tonight to discuss the schedule or just do it through text messaging?

I admit, I really just want to talk to her. I am not trying to R now, I am still working on my own 180. We have only been separated for a month, but I know she has already filed papers. I plan on keeping it on topic, not veering from discussing kids only. I am just worried that it may turn into something and I may say the wrong thing without thinking about it. I just feel like if we open this line of communication just for a moment, that maybe she will begin to relax a little. Our texts have been cordial over the last couple of weeks, basically about kids only.

Is it too pushy for me to text her and ask her to call me about this issue? Should I just let it rest and stick to texting and continue limited contact?


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

I would only do through texts so there is a record.
You have to be in cya mode for now.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Control yourself and stay on course. Talk of the kids only. Nothing you say to her will bring her back. Sorry man but she made this decision a long time ago.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Pamvhv (Apr 27, 2014)

I'd do this one on a call if you really want to talk to her. She wants a favor so if you just want to hear her voice this is a safe way to do so. Just don't get baited.


----------



## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

My STBX and I communicate almost entirely through text messages. We are still amicable, do things for each other, can be together for Christmas and stuff. But almost all our "non-face to face" communication is done through texts. If nothing else, it gives me a record of what time we agreed to meet and where. Not because I think I'll need that later legally or anything, but because I have a lousy memory. 

I'd say to with whatever works for both of you. You could suggest a call (via text) to coordinate something more complex, if that would work better. But I wouldn't see the value of pushing things. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

The safest route is via text. One she probably wont pick up the phone to actually talk to you. You will call several times, she wont pick up and now she can claim you are harrassing her. She has made strong allegations against you so you need to think about how every action you make can be used against you now more than how much you want to hear her voice.

You could also very well run into the he said/she said problem and talking on the phone you have no way to prove or disprove the conversation. At least with texts you have a written record.


----------



## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

Concur with texting only.


----------



## dadof2 (May 9, 2014)

Well the drama continues! Last night, STBX's mom sent me an email with a link to a Crosswalk.com article about 10 Relationship Killers. She says she found it interesting and that she sent it to STBX as well. The article is written by a MC that says too many couples look at divorce and say "It's for the best, we are too different." He then lists 10 things that can creep into a marriage and drive a wedge between the partners. Her mom also posted the article to her FB page with a comment that #10 (Pride) was a big one. The description of pride says that a partner focuses too much on the spouse's problems and not his own. I guess that is a dig at me??

When I first read the article I was happy that maybe STBX's mom was starting to look at things objectively and she was showing us some things we can work on. But then I started thinking that maybe she was sending it as to say, "Here's why your marriage is over." She has not had any contact with me for 2 weeks, and it has mostly been her telling me to get help and not worry about the marriage.

I responded to her email very kindly, saying that I appreciate her sending me the article and there is a lot of truth in it. I even mentioned something specific that my counselor and I talked about that I needed to improve. I finished the email saying that I hope that STBX will go to a counselor, and that we don't need to give up so easily on our marriage.

She responded this morning with a very simple, short email. Basically she is glad I am in counseling, and that STBX found a counselor that she likes and is starting to feel better about herself.

Nothing about marriage, nothing about couples counseling. I still don't know if her parents know that she has already filed divorce papers. Knowing STBX's MO, she hasn't told them. She usually does something like this without telling anyone, then deals with the fallout for a week or so, then her parents calm down and everything is okay. That is how she handled the separation.

I was just getting comfortable with very Limited Contact, and have been dark with everyone except the occasional text with STBX about children. Now her mom stirs this back up. Any advice on how to handle these type of things going forward?


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Ignore it. Or acknowledge it, like you did with the mother in law, but don't give away information to her again… she may appear to be on your side but that is because she is still in denial.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Yeah, no more telling the in- laws what you are doing. Stay dark.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

It most likely wasn’t a dig at you, more both of you. I guess for now don’t read too much into the motives other than it’s a person who has most likely no idea what is really going on trying to be helpful and leave it at that. 

Your stbx has probably started to hint around to her parents that she is either filed or thinking of filing and she is probably going the route that the counselor thinks its best or some such line. Once paperwork gets filed you only have a certain amount of time to get the other party served and it varies in each state but I would think the time limit should be coming up so she needs to tell her parents she filed but she doesn’t want to have it look like it was her idea, more the counselor said it was best for “healing” or some such nonsense. Deflecting responsibility. 

Keep your contact with the in-law to little or nothing, don’t discuss with them that you are going to counseling or interested in couple therapy. The less they know what you are doing the better.


----------



## dadof2 (May 9, 2014)

honcho said:


> Your stbx has probably started to hint around to her parents that she is either filed or thinking of filing and she is probably going the route that the counselor thinks its best or some such line. Once paperwork gets filed you only have a certain amount of time to get the other party served and it varies in each state but I would think the time limit should be coming up so she needs to tell her parents she filed but she doesn’t want to have it look like it was her idea, more the counselor said it was best for “healing” or some such nonsense. Deflecting responsibility.


Wow, that is great insight. Based on how STBX works, this would be a perfect strategy for her. She does the dirty work but can pawn it off as "counselor says I should file." I don't think she started with this strategy, because she filed 2 weeks ago today and only went to counseling last week. But with the lag in being served it would give her a great alibi. Obviously they know I haven't served because I'm sure she is waiting for a reaction. But I am not going to change anything I have been doing once I am served. I don't want them to be able to tell any difference.

I am worried about her going to IC because more than likely she has told them she is going through a divorce and needs counselling on how to get through it and overcome this abusive relationship. I would much rather her go to work on her self esteem issues and her anxiety and depression to become a better partner in the marriage. But she has a real problem being honest with herself and taking responsibility. And we all know the therapist won't challenge her on any of that because she wants to keep the copays coming. I fear this will only solidify her decision for divorce.

I know this is out of my control and I am trying hard to stick to 180, but I am also trying to be open with my feelings and not keep them inside. This forum is great and you guys are a lot of help. I appreciate the advice, even when its not what I want to hear sometimes.


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Too often people, not just your wife will use IC to reinforce the decision to divorce than actually work on issues with themselves or a marriage. The counselor only hears one storyline they have no idea fact from fantasy and while there are many good counselors in the world, many are not. 

When I heard that my stbx was finally going to therapy, my first instinct was finally she would get some help. The therapist sent some info to the judge and the tales that were being told were incredible and false. They look for sympathy, not help too many times.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

honcho said:


> Too often people, not just your wife will use IC to reinforce the decision to divorce than actually work on issues with themselves or a marriage. The counselor only hears one storyline they have no idea fact from fantasy and while there are many good counselors in the world, many are not.
> 
> When I heard that my stbx was finally going to therapy, my first instinct was finally she would get some help. The therapist sent some info to the judge and the tales that were being told were incredible and false. They look for sympathy, not help too many times.


:iagree:
They keep them coming back it's like an annuity for them.


----------



## movinonup (May 6, 2014)

Do2 - I've found it best to just cut all contact with my in-laws. I liked them while stbxw and I were together, however they were at some times very hard to be around, and unfortunately disowned me, completely cut all contact off from me when we separated. I even saw them a few times and they pretended I just wasn't there, didn't say a word to me. What's sad (as a side note) is that my family is always reaching out to my stbxw and letting her know she's still part of the family, but hey, what can ya do. 

What I'm trying to say is, use the 180 still, and don't contact her parents. I can't imagine any given situation where it would do you any good.


----------



## dadof2 (May 9, 2014)

Ok I have confirmed information that STBX spent a few hours at OM's house yesterday. Our current status is separated, very little contact (texting about kids only), and she has filed for divorce but I have not been served. She has not mentioned to me that she has filed. I have my first meeting with my attorney on Tuesday.

I am just wondering now that it is confirmed that she is having an affair with her coworker, should I inform her boss or just let it go? Being that she has already filed for divorce does it even matter at this point? I just want to expose her as a POS lying cheating wife to as many people as I can at this point. I know I am supposed to be going dark and working on myself, but this kind of news is hard to swallow. She has made me out to be a monster to her family and friends, and I have been nothing but cordial to them for weeks whenever we were on contact. If I expose to her boss then I will just prove her point of me being "crazy" in her mind. There is a rumor that OM is moving jobs next fall anyway, they have one more week of school left (STBX is a teacher, OM is PE coach).

I'm just looking for some advice. I just found this news out an hour ago and about had a breakdown. I know I have to let her go. But now that I have confirmed the affair I want to burn the ****ing house down.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

You could put the om on cheaterville and send the principal the link and send one to him.


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

You don’t have enough to confront anyone about an affair. Spending time at someones house isn’t enough proof to have any real effect and too many easy excuses can be made to rationalize why she was there. Don’t try and make a play out of that, it will backfire.


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Your script of playing like mine I hate to say. The moment you expose anything will be her play to have you served reinforcing all her wild claims about you. When I told my stbx I knew about her spending time at the guys house, she never said a word, never admitted anything and within a day I got served. 

As much as you don’t want to, you should have the attorney on Tuesday file divorce for you based on adultery, you don’t need to prove it this moment it just get the paperwork going and have her served at work. You will be so farther ahead making the play than letting her do it to you once “she is in the mood” 

The gym teacher? I will sarcastically say welcome to a bad lifetime move of the week.


----------



## dadof2 (May 9, 2014)

honcho said:


> You don’t have enough to confront anyone about an affair. Spending time at someones house isn’t enough proof to have any real effect and too many easy excuses can be made to rationalize why she was there. Don’t try and make a play out of that, it will backfire.


I agree not to confront her about it. I havent had any contact with her in weeks anyway. I am talking about the next time her mother sends me an email about working on myself and becoming a better person, I want to respond with, ask your daughther where she was all day last Saturday. Of course she will make excuses but I just need someone to know what's really going on besides all the BS she is feeding her friends/family about me.

She has already filed for D, but I haven't been served. Her papers say that she requests a full divorce in 365 days, which is standard in our state without fault. I am going to request the lawyer put adultery in the papers and we only have to wait 30 days. I think that will scare the **** out of STBX.

I realize she is caught up in the affair and our marriage is over, I just want somehow, someway to expose what she is really doing. Her friends, family and coworkers all have heard the lines about me being the villian while she is a poor helpless victim.


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

It depends on your state but if you file and have her served first, your paperwork becomes top and hers just gets rendered as a counterclaim and doesn’t have near the weight yours would. The lawyer can explain it better. 

She wants the time so she can take the OM for a test drive, the puppy love summer of fun or some such nonsense. Its what they do unfortunately. The cracks in her storyline will appear soon enough, what is important for as much as you want to act and expose you are better off staying out of harms way right now till you speak to the lawyer and figure a proper game plan. 

Short term her victim routine works, short term. Too quickly they expose themselves being seen with the OP or the rumor mill catches up with them. Long term your better letting herself screw up.


----------



## dadof2 (May 9, 2014)

honcho said:


> It depends on your state but if you file and have her served first, your paperwork becomes top and hers just gets rendered as a counterclaim and doesn’t have near the weight yours would. The lawyer can explain it better.
> 
> She wants the time so she can take the OM for a test drive, the puppy love summer of fun or some such nonsense. Its what they do unfortunately. The cracks in her storyline will appear soon enough, what is important for as much as you want to act and expose you are better off staying out of harms way right now till you speak to the lawyer and figure a proper game plan.
> 
> Short term her victim routine works, short term. Too quickly they expose themselves being seen with the OP or the rumor mill catches up with them. Long term your better letting herself screw up.


UPDATE:
I met with my attorney today. She seems very competent, and I let her look through the petition that I will soon be served with. She said we can deny all allegations, but seemed to be hesitant to put adultery in our counter claim. She said we don't have enough proof for that. We are in a no fault state, so she said the burden of proof for adultery is quite large. She did say that I could hire a PI and if they could get enough information to show an affair, then I would be able to get out of paying interim spousal support. She seemed to think that I will not be paying final spousal support due to STBX's age and career.

I was kind of disappointed when I left. She did not want to put any scathing language in the reply, basically just respond with standard answers. Since STBX already agreed to 50/50 custody, she said that is the best that I will get. I told her several times I wanted to pin STBX to the wall with as much as I could, but she kept saying any wild allegations will make us look bad. She seemed to be all business and basically said to start getting financials together. She said usually the fight is over custody, but since STBX already agreed to 50/50, then now we will just fight over money.

I was hoping she would be a little tougher on STBX, but maybe my expectations were too high. She is going to write up a response and I will meet with her next week to discuss. I felt like we were all over the place and not into a lot of specifics. But it was just the initial consultation, so maybe we will jump into it more next meeting.

I am on the fence about the PI. I know she is cheating, but there is a big difference between me knowing and proving it in court. STBX was at OM's house this weekend, but he lives at the end of a dead end street, so it would be hard to camoflauge a PI. It is obviously a big decision, so I emailed the attorney after the meeting to confirm exactly what I would have to gain by finding evidence of an affair. Still waiting for a response.


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Courts don't care that much about adultery. I think it's a waste of money.


----------



## ReidWright (May 15, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> Courts don't care that much about adultery. I think it's a waste of money.


yeah, but the court of public opinion might...otherwise he'll be taking half the blame for the marriage failing with friends and family.


----------



## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

ReidWright said:


> yeah, but the court of public opinion might...otherwise he'll be taking half the blame for the marriage failing with friends and family.


YEP!

It would be worth it to prove the true nature of the dissolution of the marriage to all that matter. We can only imagine what webs of lies have been spun about you to her family and friends.

LW's right though as far as the courts are concerned in a no fault state. I'm with your atty on this; get the 50/50 custody in writing first and then get the rest of the goods on her and expose her for what she truly is.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

3putt said:


> YEP!
> 
> It would be worth it to prove the true nature of the dissolution of the marriage to all that matter. We can only imagine what webs of lies have been spun about you to her family and friends.
> 
> LW's right though as far as the courts are concerned in a no fault state. I'm with your atty on this; get the 50/50 custody in writing first and then get the rest of the goods on her and expose her for what she truly is.


Unless you have the money for a full blown trial listen to your attorney.


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

From a final divorce decree stating adultery, yes it is hard to prove. Your attorney knows your state laws much better but since you have a year waiting period the notion would be to get in initial paperwork to get that waived. Even in at fault states I would guess 90% have a final decree of no-fault. Its just how the deals work. 

A question you should ask the lawyer is if she has any experience with the other attorney in the case. Attorneys seem to fall into 3 categories, idiots, boring by the book and blood and guts, which really means they are billing machines for a client. Attorneys seem to all know each other in a community so they all know each others game and how its going to go. Your wife probably hired the blood and guts person who promises the moon and stars to a client as this happens often in these cases and based on some of the claims in her paperwork. 

Most of the time once the papers get served the two lawyers will then hash out what the temp order will really be and what gets presented to the court. The courts don’t want to make these decisions. They much rather just sign off on a deal. This is part of the hurry up and wait nonsense the court system does. They scramble to get a temp order in place than months of limbo. Too many times the BS will “be nice” and not rock the boat when it comes to the terms of temp hearing because they are still hoping to reconcile. Don’t take the approach. You need to play accountant now more than anything and get terms you can live with.

Don’t believe at the end the legal system will get you vindication or justice you will be disappointed. The cracks in her game will appear soon enough and the world of public opinion will see what is really going on. She cant run this game long term


----------



## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

honcho said:


> From a final divorce decree stating adultery, yes it is hard to prove. Your attorney knows your state laws much better but since you have a year waiting period the notion would be to get in initial paperwork to get that waived. Even in at fault states I would guess 90% have a final decree of no-fault. Its just how the deals work.
> 
> A question you should ask the lawyer is if she has any experience with the other attorney in the case. Attorneys seem to fall into 3 categories, idiots, boring by the book and blood and guts, which really means they are billing machines for a client. Attorneys seem to all know each other in a community so they all know each others game and how its going to go. Your wife probably hired the blood and guts person who promises the moon and stars to a client as this happens often in these cases and based on some of the claims in her paperwork.
> 
> ...


Not only do the attorneys know the other attorneys, more importantly they know the judges. 

I concur with the advice given. Let the lawyers hash this deal out. Court is not good and it is favored towards your wife - regardless of what she did. Once you swallow this bitter pill, it becomes easier to make this a business transaction.


----------



## TheBaxter (May 19, 2014)

helolover said:


> Not only do the attorneys know the other attorneys, more importantly they know the judges.
> 
> I concur with the advice given. Let the lawyers hash this deal out. Court is not good and it is favored towards your wife - regardless of what she did. Once you swallow this bitter pill, it becomes easier to make this a business transaction.


Your wife is much like my ex. Very slick and manipulative. I agree with the others . Let your lawyer cut the deal. Get out of the marriage as smoothly as you can. The truth will come out eventually. She is a tramp and a liar . You are sad now but believe me in a year you will be much happier. Start dating once you get served. You dont need to sleep around, but just get with other women. It helps.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## dadof2 (May 9, 2014)

helolover said:


> Not only do the attorneys know the other attorneys, more importantly they know the judges.
> 
> I concur with the advice given. Let the lawyers hash this deal out. Court is not good and it is favored towards your wife - regardless of what she did. Once you swallow this bitter pill, it becomes easier to make this a business transaction.


You are right, my lawyer knows her lawyer of course and said that he is a good attorney but not very "smart." Who knows what that means.

She also said the judge is very favorable towards women, and that she does not like 50/50 custody. My attorney said since STBX is already offering 50/50, that I should take that.

She has filed for interim spousal support during the separation period, with a request for final support at the end. My attorney said she will unlikely get final support, but interim is very likely. The separation period is 365 days, plus she can be awarded interim for another 180 after the final decree. This is why I am considering hiring a PI. Even if I pay a PI $2500 for a few days of following her, if he gets good info, then it could save me way more than that in interim support. That is the decision I have to make.

I think I am going to go with the PI to get information on her, and if we get proof of adultery, then I will keep that info under wraps and use it as a bargaining chip. We don't have to go to trial just because we get proof of adultery.

I agree with you Honcho, there will be little justice or vindication for me when this is over. At the end of the day, she will have cheated on me and walked out of the marriage and never have to own up to it. Even my lawyer said short of catching her in adultery, all I can do is get 50/50 custody and work like hell to split assets equally. I don't want to be amicable anymore, but it looks like that is just how it is.


----------



## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Would it be considered adultery if you are separated?


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

You will probably be better off hiring a PI at a later time than now. If she follows the typical affair course she will spend more time with OM and become more public. The rumor mill will take care of her reputation. Short of her living with him now its pretty hard to get out of the temp support. You will hemmorage some cash short term which is why it would be great to work around this year long no fault wait your state has. How long were you married? Your kids are young so I dont picture your marriage to be considered a long term one.


----------



## dadof2 (May 9, 2014)

My state has a statute that says adultery must be proven before separation. I have text message records about them being together before the split. It does not specifically cite sex, but if we are able to get footage of them alone in the home it can corroborate with the text messaging that this was going on before the separation. It may not hold up in court, but it should provide some leverage during the settlement if needed.

We will be married 5 years this July. My attorney did not seem to think I would have to pay permanent spousal support once the D is final. I would possibly have to pay interim support for the 365 day waiting period, plus another 6 months after.

STBX is going on vacation for a week with her parents and the kids leaving this Sunday. Today is their last day of school, so I am hoping the PI can catch her and OM them spending time together in the next few days before she leaves for a week. He lives down a dead end road with not many houses, so it may be hard to get any footage without the PI being made.

I was considering waiting until she gets more comfortable, but she has been on her own for a month and I know she spend most of Sunday afternoon at his house. I think she is letting her guard down, and with her going out of town for a week I would think they would want to spend some time together before she leaves.


----------



## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

I haven't read all of your thread yet, so I apologize if this advice has already been given or you have already taken these steps.

Expose her and the POS to their principal and the district.

Inform them you are looking into alienation of affection actions against the POS and will add the district to the suit if they do not do something to stop the workplace A.

I have taught for over 20 years...believe me when I say most districts will definitely take severe action if they are facing potential legal action.

Also, expose the A to her family if it hasn't already happened.

In your post, you mentioned that she had filed without telling you OR her parents what was going on.

If that is so, it is because she doesn't want her A coming out...she wants time to rewrite your M to her family to make you look like a monster.

Then she will introduce the 'sweet' POSOM as a co-worker who is helping her to get away from horrible you.

Blow this plan up in her face.


----------



## dadof2 (May 9, 2014)

Dyokemm said:


> I haven't read all of your thread yet, so I apologize if this advice has already been given or you have already taken these steps.
> 
> Expose her and the POS to their principal and the district.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the advice. I have seriously considered letting her principal know about the workplace affair. The only thing I am worried about is that if she were to somehow lose her job, I would be more liable to have to pay alimony!

There is nothing more I want than to get some kind of vindication during this process. I understand it's not likely but it's like she is getting to do exactly what she wants and never has to own up to her affair and walking away from our marriage and small children.

Her parents know about the OM but only when the news broke. Ever since then, she has shifted all of the blame to me and they are all letting her play the victim. She has turned me into a monster and I have done nothing but take the high road through all of this.

I have typed a 2 page letter that I would like to give her parents. It basically brings more details of the affair to light and shows STBX's pattern of dishonesty. It is kind of my goodbye to her parents upon learning about their daughter filing for divorce. I know they won't believe any of it and STBX will just tell them I am being manipulative, but it felt great to get it off of my chest. I don't know if I will ever give it to them but I would love to give them some insight into what is really going on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Actually no you wouldn’t be more liable for alimony, if she lost her job and was “at fault” the courts will impute her wage as if still working because she was at the time of filing and is perfectly capable of finding another job. Based on a 5 year marriage she is going to have a real tough time getting anymore than a year out of you anyway in just about any state. Most wont even consider alimony on a 5 year marriage. 

Don’t send the letter to her parents. I know you want to and it made you feel better to write it out. Everyone of us writes that letter myself included. It gets you no results and usually just in the short terms makes you look crazy. Your still too emotional right now, reread that letter in a week or two and I think you will see what I mean. 

I hate to ask but do you know for sure her parents are going on vacation and that your stbx is going with them. It wouldn’t be the first time a WS has used the ruse of the family vacation only to have a rendezvous elsewhere with the OP while grandma and grandpa watch the kids.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

dadof2 you were only married 5 years.
I am not a lawyer but this is a short term marriage.
Expose you have really nothing to lose and the truth comes out.
And make om regret he messed with your life.


----------



## TheBaxter (May 19, 2014)

You are wasting your money hiring a PI. Your wife's attorney is offering you a good deal. In the end the custody is all that matters. 50/50 means you have a 50% chance of teaching those kids that living morally and correctly is the right way to live, while your cheating wife will try to do the opposite. 

Take the deal. Stop obsessing on the adultery. In my divorce I also cited adultery and all my ex did was spin it to make me look abusive and vindictive. The people in this sick, deranged world care nothing about adultery. They don't even sniff at it. 

You will look like an mean hateful husband and your wife will be a heroine. Women like your wife get rewarded for adultery. Spend your money on getting a new house or apartment and treating yourself to nice things. Be nice to yourself.


----------



## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"Thanks for the advice. I have seriously considered letting her principal know about the workplace affair. The only thing I am worried about is that if she were to somehow lose her job, I would be more liable to have to pay alimony!"

Actually, she would not be fired immediately due to the professional contracts teachers work under.

But they would probably be given verbal warnings and letters in their personal files to immediately halt their inappropriate relationship and have nothing but professional contact.

And in the letter would be a formal warning that violating these instructions would result in further disciplinary actions or termination.

They may also insist that one of them transfer to another site next year.

I have actually personally seen this happen to a couple at one of my past schools.

The POSOM in that case freaked out and dropped the A immediately...there was no way he was losing his job over an easy piece of tail.

And both of them became pariahs with almost the entirety of the staff. 

He was rattled enough that simply having such a letter in your personnel file can make getting hired in another school district or credentialed in another state problematic.

Most districts do not want to import trouble, and many will pass if they see such things and are unsatisfied by the explanations given in an interview.


----------



## dadof2 (May 9, 2014)

honcho said:


> I hate to ask but do you know for sure her parents are going on vacation and that your stbx is going with them. It wouldn’t be the first time a WS has used the ruse of the family vacation only to have a rendezvous elsewhere with the OP while grandma and grandpa watch the kids.


Believe me I have thought about this. But yes, STBX and kids are going with her parents and her sister's family to the beach for a week.

I think you are right about the letter. It felt good to write it out and get it off my chest, but in the end it won't do anything but look like I am being manipulative. They are going to believe their daughter no matter what.


----------



## dadof2 (May 9, 2014)

TheBaxter said:


> You are wasting your money hiring a PI. Your wife's attorney is offering you a good deal. In the end the custody is all that matters. 50/50 means you have a 50% chance of teaching those kids that living morally and correctly is the right way to live, while your cheating wife will try to do the opposite.
> 
> Take the deal. Stop obsessing on the adultery. In my divorce I also cited adultery and all my ex did was spin it to make me look abusive and vindictive. The people in this sick, deranged world care nothing about adultery. They don't even sniff at it.
> 
> You will look like an mean hateful husband and your wife will be a heroine. Women like your wife get rewarded for adultery. Spend your money on getting a new house or apartment and treating yourself to nice things. Be nice to yourself.


I agree with everything you said. I am fixated on the adultery right now. My lawyer said that we do have a small window where if we can get footage of them alone going into a residence than we may be able to have a case.

I am back on forth on hiring the PI. It is a very big step, and if the PI gets made, then I look like a stalker. But if we get proof of an affair, I will not have to pay interim spousal support. I am sure the court costs would be just as high, but I may not even need court if I show the video to STBX's lawyer and use it as leverage. I am not worried about the money for a PI, fortunately I am in a position to spend a lot in order to try to clear my name.


----------



## dadof2 (May 9, 2014)

Dyokemm said:


> "Thanks for the advice. I have seriously considered letting her principal know about the workplace affair. The only thing I am worried about is that if she were to somehow lose her job, I would be more liable to have to pay alimony!"
> 
> Actually, she would not be fired immediately due to the professional contracts teachers work under.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the insight coming from a teacher. How should I expose? Send an email to the principal? Ask for a sit down meeting?

Today is their last day of work and who knows how to get in touch once summer comes. 

Also, I don't have a lot of proof other than what I have seen and what friends have told me. I am sure the principal knows they have been staying late after school to workout together. He is a smart enough guy to know where that could lead. I would hate to bring this up to him without hard evidence though because then I will just look like a jealous, vengeful husband. Maybe I just simply tell him that since STBX started working there, they have developed a relationship and now she has abruptly asked for divorce and that OM is certainly involved.

Our state does not recognize alienation of affection unfortunately, so that angle is out.

Any advice on how to handle with the principal is appreciated.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Bottom line is she left you for him.
Principal does not want a potential lawsuit hanging over him.
But it's your call.


----------



## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

dadof2 said:


> I am back on forth on hiring the PI. It is a very big step, and if the PI gets made, then I look like a stalker.


Quit making lame-ass excuses. Hiring a PI makes you a party to a divorce, not a stalker.


----------



## dadof2 (May 9, 2014)

Machiavelli said:


> Quit making lame-ass excuses. Hiring a PI makes you a party to a divorce, not a stalker.


Your right, I am being too nice. She isnt' worried about what I think of her. It is too late to worry about her feelings. I am meeting with the PI this afternoon hopefully to line them up for this weekend.


----------



## dadof2 (May 9, 2014)

tom67 said:


> Bottom line is she left you for him.
> Principal does not want a potential lawsuit hanging over him.
> But it's your call.


I think a brief email to principal will be all I need. How does this sound:

Principal XXX,

My name is XXX, and I am XXX's husband. We are currently separated and headed for a divorce. This divorce is very abrupt and is directly related to (wife)'s relationship with (OM). I have learned that they have been having an affair since March of this year, and it began with their afterschool workouts. I feel this is highly inappropriate, especially since (OM) is in a position of authority over (STBX). I just wanted to make you aware of this situation and I will be moving forward with divorce proceedings on STBX.

Thank You


If this isn't good enough, any suggestions are appreciated.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

dadof2 said:


> I think a brief email to principal will be all I need. How does this sound:
> 
> Principal XXX,
> 
> ...


Sounds good to me.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

You could end it with "and I will be exploring any other legal remedies in this matter"
This could make him act faster.


----------



## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Good e-mail.....but I would add the phrase tom67 suggested.

It will definitely motivate the principal to take action.

Every principal I have ever worked for, and every district executive or board member as well, have been VERY sensitive to possible legal actions.

They always have the potential to create negative publicity, something these folks avoid like the plague.

I have seen district administrators bend over backward to placate the ridiculous demands of people (primarily parents of poorly behaving/performing kids, but angry/disgruntled teachers as well) simply out of this fear.

In general, this tendency to placate annoys the h**l out of me, and I wish they would 'grow a pair' sometimes...but in your situation, this tendency can actually be put to good use to get this POS away from your WW.

Until this piece of filth is gone, there will NEVER be any chance of saving your M and intact family.


----------



## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

dadof2 said:


> Your right, I am being too nice. She isnt' worried about what I think of her. It is too late to worry about her feelings. I am meeting with the PI this afternoon hopefully to line them up for this weekend.


Excellent, now you're moving on it. Get the evidence and get the for cause divorce. Subpoena the OM and a bunch of teachers. Strangely enough, your wife will find herself attracted to you to some extent when you go to war, so be ready.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> Excellent, now you're moving on it. Get the evidence and get the for cause divorce. Subpoena the OM and a bunch of teachers. Strangely enough, your wife will find herself attracted to you to some extent when you go to war, so be ready.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:
No more mr niceguy.


----------



## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

tom67 said:


> You could end it with "and I will be exploring any other legal remedies in this matter"
> This could make him act faster.


Yeah, even if there is no legal remedy there, it's a nice touch. However, we're talking schools here; basically Affair Central, so he probably knows all the ins and outs.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> Yeah, even if there is no legal remedy there, it's a nice touch. However, we're talking schools here; basically Affair Central, so he probably knows all the ins and outs.


I know teachers and doctors are some of the worst.
He has to put the fear of future litigation or they won't do squat.


----------



## dadof2 (May 9, 2014)

Machiavelli said:


> Excellent, now you're moving on it. Get the evidence and get the for cause divorce. Subpoena the OM and a bunch of teachers. Strangely enough, your wife will find herself attracted to you to some extent when you go to war, so be ready.


PI is set to pick up on her tomorrow evening. She and OM are off all day tomorrow but PI doesn't have anyone available during the day. I am worried that we may miss something because they are smart enough not to spend the night at each other's house.

But its all I can do for now. She is leaving for a week with her parents and our kids, so I would think STBX and OM would try to get together at some point before their week apart.

All that being said, proof of adultery is very difficult in this state but at least if we get proof of them together it will be enough for my lawyer to start seeking depositions of faculty members as to the depth of their relationship. I hope the threat of that would get STBX to a more agreeable position on some things in the settlement. 

I hate to say it, but I want to get some proof of the affair just to have a small victory in this battle. Right now she is calling all of the shots and everything is on her terms. If I were to obtain proof it would go a long way in vindicating me as the monster in this whole situation. Nothing I would like better than to have her and OM worried about losing their jobs.


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

And if it yields insufficient evidence, will you see this as a defeat?

Either way, not worth investing too much money or emotion on this. But if it's easy enough sometimes you gotta JDI.


----------



## dadof2 (May 9, 2014)

Having a bad day today. Just keep thinking about what she's done/doing and it makes me so upset. I don't understand how she could walk away from our marriage so quickly and move on with her life like I never existed. I found out from a coworker that she is out with a few friends including OM right now having lunch and drinks at a restaurant here in town. I compare that with my situation, sitting in my office eating a sandwich, and I just feel worthless. How is it that she can be doing exactly what she wants and feel so good about it with no one to tell her any different, and I am left here with a broken marriage and our 2 small children are caught up in the middle.

I am trying to be strong and work in the 180, but as my counselor says, there are "landmines" out there that pop up from time to time. Today is one of those days. I am just so hurt by what she's done and she doesn't have to feel any of the repercussions of her actions. She gets the kids for a few days, then gets a few days off to go party with her new friends and posOM. Its just not fair. I am willing to do anything to make our marriage work, and she couldn't care less and no one is giving her any reasonable advice. We have been on LC about kids only - texting only - for a month now. We have not seen each other or spoken on the phone in that time. Its like she has wrapped me up in a little box and stored me away from her mind like I never existed!

And to top it off, she leaves Sunday with the kids and her parents for a week at the beach! It is just not fair. I don't even want her back at this point, I just hate the thought of another man screwing her and her enjoying it. I hate the fact that she doesn't feel any guilt or remorse for what she's doing. I hate the fact that no one is calling her out for her bull****. And I hate the fact that I cannot get this situation off my mind from more than a few minutes, while I may cross her mind maybe a few minutes a day.

Sorry to vent so much, but just having a bad day. Someone please give me some advice! I know I have to get out and be active, and I am working on it. I started exercising again and it makes me feel good, but only for an hour or so. I don't have much of a social life, I was happy to be a husband and father and didn't need to go out and party for a good time. I am in good shape, so its not like I need to lose 30 lbs, I have been taking care of myself and my house just fine without her around. It is just so hard to get out of bed in the morning and face another day of worrying and wondering why she can do what she's doing with a straight face and leave me broken on the floor.


----------



## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

dadof2 said:


> Having a bad day today. Just keep thinking about what she's done/doing and it makes me so upset. I don't understand how she could walk away from our marriage so quickly and move on with her life like I never existed. I found out from a coworker that she is out with a few friends including OM right now having lunch and drinks at a restaurant here in town. I compare that with my situation, sitting in my office eating a sandwich, and I just feel worthless. How is it that she can be doing exactly what she wants and feel so good about it with no one to tell her any different, and I am left here with a broken marriage and our 2 small children are caught up in the middle.
> 
> I am trying to be strong and work in the 180, but as my counselor says, there are "landmines" out there that pop up from time to time. Today is one of those days. I am just so hurt by what she's done and she doesn't have to feel any of the repercussions of her actions. She gets the kids for a few days, then gets a few days off to go party with her new friends and posOM. Its just not fair. I am willing to do anything to make our marriage work, and she couldn't care less and no one is giving her any reasonable advice. We have been on LC about kids only - texting only - for a month now. We have not seen each other or spoken on the phone in that time. Its like she has wrapped me up in a little box and stored me away from her mind like I never existed!
> 
> ...


This needs to be moved to the CWI forum. It's like an infidelity boot camp, but if you listen and do, then things can change.

Feeling bad for you partner.


----------



## dadof2 (May 9, 2014)

3putt said:


> This needs to be moved to the CWI forum. It's like an infidelity boot camp, but if you listen and do, then things can change.
> 
> Feeling bad for you partner.


Thanks, I posted my previous post in the CWI forum. Hoping to get some good advice.

On another note, I spoke with PI earlier this evening and they are on her tonight. Sadly, I hope she is up to no good tonight so I can finally have something go my way.


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

You are going to have bad days and it is part of the road we have been forced down. Every thought and every question you wrote about has gone thru the head of every BS I would dare say.

We will never get the answers we are really seeking which just adds to the hurt and frustration. She does have guilt and feel that you have been rendered irrelevant in her head. Many WS can seem to just shut part of themselves down emotionally almost becoming robotic. It is there own coping mechanism I guess to reinforce the denial that what they did was wrong.

I read your post early today and Ive actually sat around off and on trying to figure some kind of good response that would make you feel better. I can feel your hurt thru your words and all I kept thinking is these are the exact questions I went round and round in my own head minus the kids. Your probably feel a little helpless right now too with the overall situation. Men are kind of built for task, give us a problem we work on solution, we figure plans to achieve results. We cant do that in these situations because “the problem” refuses. 

Its easy to write and tell you don’t obsess about what she is doing or the situation. I spent many a sleepless night watching strange infomercials trying not to do this in the beginning also. From experience the answer never comes. As some more time passes you will also realize that whatever she is chasing will bother you less and less as you focus on taking care of yourself. You hurt and your gonna hurt. How long is completely up to you and right now that sounds like a cop out answer but its true. 

Spend some time with friends or family if you can right now. Your not going to be the life of the party but it really does help. Break up your routines, we are creatures of habit and changing things will help distract your brain. For some people phycial activities help and for some mental activities do. Its some trial and error till you find what works and what doesn’t. Just getting out of the house help. 

I read on your other post the comment about the flavor of the month and kind of chuckled to myself. Reality is most of us have been exactly where you are, feeling the same thing you have, your reactions to your situation are part of the normal process.


----------



## dadof2 (May 9, 2014)

honcho said:


> You are going to have bad days and it is part of the road we have been forced down. Every thought and every question you wrote about has gone thru the head of every BS I would dare say.
> 
> We will never get the answers we are really seeking which just adds to the hurt and frustration. She does have guilt and feel that you have been rendered irrelevant in her head. Many WS can seem to just shut part of themselves down emotionally almost becoming robotic. It is there own coping mechanism I guess to reinforce the denial that what they did was wrong.
> 
> ...


Thanks man, it really is amazing how similar every BS story is. We all have our unique details, but the jist is the same. I really appreciate your words, it seems like you were in the exact place I am in. I hope to keep my head up and make it to the other side like you have. I am starting to have glimpses of my life without her, and I can't say that seems to terribly bad. My biggest concern is for our children, and that is when I lose it emotionally. I have them tonight and they are both sound asleep in their innocent little worlds, and their mother is more than like at her OM's trailer giving the headboard a workout. Those poor kiddos didn't ask for that.


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

You have your PI on this tonight and hopefully he will have some news for you tomorrow. Either way the news will bother you on some level so brace yourself for that. I by nature and a planner and schemer. I mentioned it before you your posting but I got a tough time believing this “innocent” family trip. 

Considering she has blown up her life to chase “the dream” Her suddenly leaving it for a week just when they are becoming more open about being seen together. To me it doesn’t play right. You might want to consider having your PI keep some tabs on the OM during this week. I just wouldn’t be surprised if he either suddenly disappears out of town for a couple of days or depending on just “how great a guy” he is isn’t out hitting the bars figuring he has got a free week to get another trophy for the wall if you get my meaning.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

honcho said:


> You have your PI on this tonight and hopefully he will have some news for you tomorrow. Either way the news will bother you on some level so brace yourself for that. I by nature and a planner and schemer. I mentioned it before you your posting but I got a tough time believing this “innocent” family trip.
> 
> Considering she has blown up her life to chase “the dream” Her suddenly leaving it for a week just when they are becoming more open about being seen together. To me it doesn’t play right. You might want to consider having your PI keep some tabs on the OM during this week. I just wouldn’t be surprised if he either suddenly disappears out of town for a couple of days or depending on just “how great a guy” he is isn’t out hitting the bars figuring he has got a free week to get another trophy for the wall if you get my meaning.


Good point.


----------



## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

I guess I'm kinda an a$$hole in a way. Maybe vindictive. Not sure..

I think we all feel like you do in these situations. But I wasn't going to sit and feel sorry for myself. 

I've always had a knack for human interactive psychology. Call it a gift, or a demon trait. Lol. Something I picked up all my life watching my passive aggressive manipulative mother work her charms on the family, and me watching as if from the sidelines, like an observer almost...detached but not. 

Anyways, when my ex did this, I went through about 2 weeks of what you are. Then decided I wasn't going to feel like that anymore. 

Every time I picked up the kids, she would try small talk. What's up for the weekend? Any major plans?

Me? I'd always respond with, "I have a date to go to?" " I'm supposed to go to this poolside BBQ. Geez! Hope I don't look too fat besides all those other in shape girls and guys! Haha! It's been since my college days when I went to one of these"

She didn't need to know that the "date" was with with my accountant, or that the BBQ was at one of my family's random get togethers. With me being the youngest person there and most likely the only one that didn't need a walker. 

These light, and abstract comments, used to drive her bat shat crazy! And for some evil reason I enjoyed the hell out of making her imagination go nuts. 
She had this sense to her that she expected me to just sit at home wallowing in pity, missing her constantly. 

Well, I kinda did, it's natural too. But I wasn't about to let her know that. For all she perceived, her leaving was a gift to me that turned me into a social god! Lol. 
(Except most of my time was spent on the usual yard work and housework. 😉


Yeah. I am an a hole like that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

honcho said:


> You have your PI on this tonight and hopefully he will have some news for you tomorrow. Either way the news will bother you on some level so brace yourself for that. I by nature and a planner and schemer. I mentioned it before you your posting but I got a tough time believing this “innocent” family trip.
> 
> Considering she has blown up her life to chase “the dream” Her suddenly leaving it for a week just when they are becoming more open about being seen together. To me it doesn’t play right. You might want to consider having your PI keep some tabs on the OM during this week. I just wouldn’t be surprised if he either suddenly disappears out of town for a couple of days or depending on just “how great a guy” he is isn’t out hitting the bars figuring he has got a free week to get another trophy for the wall if you get my meaning.


It would be great to find he is also playing another woman or women.


----------



## movinonup (May 6, 2014)

Any updates on the PI? I feel like any news you receive will be a bitter sweet situation. I've been reading through this and have really wondered, is this something you really want to know? I think that you feel if you find out the truth it'll make you feel better, but truth be told, it'll likely make you feel like shi*. Just something to consider. IF you haven't found out already, you may want to consider letting the PI know that you don't want to know the information. I don't know. I am constantly wondering anytime I have my parenting time with the kids if my stbx is banging some other dude, and then I realize (with tons of effort) that it doesn't matter, if I knew, I wouldn't be able to sleep at all. If I just don't talk to her and don't worry about what she's doing, things seem just a little bit easier. Not a ton, but a little bit.

Just some thoughts man.


----------



## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

dadof2 said:


> Having a bad day today. Just keep thinking about what she's done/doing and it makes me so upset. I don't understand how she could walk away from our marriage so quickly and move on with her life like I never existed... I am just so hurt by what she's done and she doesn't have to feel any of the repercussions of her actions...I am willing to do anything to make our marriage work, and she couldn't care less and no one is giving her any reasonable advice...We have not seen each other or spoken on the phone in that time. Its like she has wrapped me up in a little box and stored me away from her mind like I never existed!


This is the nature of the beast. Sure there are women who can keep their affair in a box, but most are wired up to completely detach from the BH once another guy unloads in her. Which is why rubbers aren't used in affair sex. The mood elevating chemicals and the bonding chemicals found in semen and released in female orgasm with a new guy blow the BH right out of her consciousness. It's also a defensive mechanism against guilt. You're almost dead to her.



dadof2 said:


> And to top it off, she leaves Sunday with the kids and her parents for a week at the beach!


How far away is this rendezvous with her parents? My guess is her new friend will make an appearance if it all possible. 



dadof2 said:


> I started exercising again and it makes me feel good, but only for an hour or so. I don't have much of a social life, I was happy to be a husband and father and didn't need to go out and party for a good time. I am in good shape, so its not like I need to lose 30 lbs, I have been taking care of myself and my house just fine without her around.


Pick up a book from Amazon called The New High Intensity Training. It's the best program IMHO for quick results on the V-torso front for non-steroid users. The V torso and visible abs/inguinals are the two biggest automatic attraction triggers known.



dadof2 said:


> It is just so hard to get out of bed in the morning and face another day of worrying and wondering why she can do what she's doing with a straight face and leave me broken on the floor.


If you want some really good music to wallow in, pick up "Layla and Other Love Songs" by Derek and the Dominoes.


----------



## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> *By dadof2*
> My biggest concern is for our children, and that is when I lose it emotionally.


Honcho did a great job of sharing his reality and probably yours. Honcho is right on the target and understands your situation completely. I hope that honcho’s empathy and experiences helped your emotions and overall view.


As far as your biggest concern, your children, listen to your attorney and do exactly as she says. Your emotions may try and challenge the attorney’s advice but hold off on anything that is going against your attorney’s plan. *Your children and financial settlement that you get in the divorce will last a lifetime so focus on that.* I know this is not much relief for you right now but as honcho said “Your hurt and your gonna hurt’ nothing is going to change that much for now.


You seem to be a very level headed man but have all those emotions to deal with. I know that those emotions can dominate at times but do not forget the long term view. You probably will recover from these crises in the future and your actions will determine your contentment in life. Your children will figure out that it was their mother than rejected their father and choose her self desires over their father and the family unit. You did not violate the marriage and family with the death blow of betrayal. *Assuming you continue to be a good father and work on your self to improve yourself your life will be MUCH better than now.*


I know this will take years but you have a very good chance of living another 40-50 years. You have a LOT of years to recover and have a very good life. I know you want justice and some victories right now but you are going to have to wait. Do not doubt it, justice will eventually show up even though it may take many years.


I am trying to get you to look at the big picture, the one that is long term. I know you want something right now but I am unable to provide you with any great relief right now. Follow your attorney’s advice and learn from those older people that have been through what you have and are now having a good life; in other words those people that are a success. I hope that you can get relief for the short term from somewhere but remember that the long term view for you represents 40-50 years. *If you handle this crises right you will be much better in 2-5 years. You can even be better than you have ever been.*


*My wife found another man in 1987 and I have had a very good life for the last 25 years! My children are very fond of me and talk or visit with me every week and sometimes 3-4 times a week*. Financially I am better than I have ever been and own my own home with all the creature comforts, one truck, one SUV, and enough money left over to have a lot of entertainment for myself.



*Get all the immediate relief that you can but remember the long term goals!*


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

dadof2 said:


> I think a brief email to principal will be all I need. How does this sound:
> 
> Principal XXX,
> 
> ...


You need to correct this "We are currently separated and headed for a divorce."

We are separated and my wife filed for divorce on _5/xx/2014 (put the actual date that she filed here.) _


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

dadof2 said:


> I am going to request the lawyer put adultery in the papers and we only have to wait 30 days. I think that will scare the **** out of STBX.


From what I have read you have no actual proof of infidelity. For divorce you have prove that they had intercourse. In most states that's BEFORE she filed. 

I have not seen where you have said what state you live in so we cannot actually look up what the laws in your state are.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Hicks said:


> Would it be considered adultery if you are separated?


In most states, if it's sex while only separated (not legally) it's adultery.

If it's sex after the divorced is filed, it's not adultery.


----------



## MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut (Mar 13, 2014)

Machiavelli said:


> This is the nature of the beast. Sure there are women who can keep their affair in a box, but most are wired up to completely detach from the BH once another guy unloads in her. Which is why rubbers aren't used in affair sex. The mood elevating chemicals and the bonding chemicals found in semen and released in female orgasm with a new guy blow the BH right out of her consciousness. It's also a defensive mechanism against guilt. You're almost dead to her.


Are you saying it's not really her fault but the OM's semen is to blame. That she, like most women, is just wired up like that and she cannot resist the nature. :scratchhead:


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut said:


> Are you saying it's not really her fault but the OM's semen is to blame. That she, like most women, is just wired up like that and she cannot resist the nature. :scratchhead:


Yep it's all the fault of those little tadpoles.


----------



## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Yep it's all the fault of those little tadpoles.


Well...They are on testosterone, you know.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Machiavelli said:


> Well...They are on testosterone, you know.


Yea that's true.. gotta make you wonder about them..


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Nature is responsible for everything but we can only express our discontent by divorcing the remnants of the spouse who abdicated their free will.


----------



## MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut (Mar 13, 2014)

Machiavelli said:


> Well...They are on testosterone, you know.


I'm sure semen would be sold as a drug already if it had such great effects. I also suppose you base all your wild stories on real verified science and not on say, Greek mythology.


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Of course there is science behind it. Link


----------



## MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut (Mar 13, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> Of course there is science behind it. Link


There's nothing behind that link.


> Sorry, there has been an error.
> 
> Return to the home page.
> 
> Please note that this link may also be affected by the error, but if possible, please tell us what happened.


Hint: it's been removed because it was bogus science.


----------



## dadof2 (May 9, 2014)

Thanks for all the replies. I understand all of the advice given and I am trying to process it all. It is so hard to know that in my head I know what she is doing and I have no reason to feel any nice feelings toward her. But my heart still sees her as the girl I married and longs for her. I don't know how to get over that hump.

I had the PI on her the last 2 nights, and they got evidence of them together, but mostly what they call "soft hits." Him picking her up, spending time at his house, dropping her back off. No PDA or overnight stays. I doubt I will be able to get a court ruling of adultery, but I have enough to prove a relationship exists, and maybe that will finally show her family that she has been lying to them all along. I don't know what type of gratification I will get from that, but I just wan't someone besides me and my circle to know the truth. She has basically left me for OM, but no one in her family even knows they are seeing each other. They just think she was a poor helpless victim and had to get away from the monster that she made me out to be.

I have a meeting with my lawyer this week and we are supposed to go over the PI report. I am going to ask about exposing them to the school system. I don't want to be pushy but I don't want my attorney to just say, "lets not rock the boat." I want to do as much as I can within the system to let everyone I can know what has been going on.


----------



## dadof2 (May 9, 2014)

Today was a tough morning- I saw STBX for the first time in over a month. She came to the house to pick up the children to leave on vacation. It was very businesslike, no small talk. She was here less than 5 mins. She looked great, of course, but I made sure I had a new shirt on and put on my happy face. We had been using her parents as a go between the last few weeks, but I guess now that she and OM are full time, she doesn't mind seeing me anymore. I am just someone from her past that she has no emotional attachment to. That hurts me so badly.

When she left all the emotions came pouring out of me. I know what she has been doing and how much hurt I have been feeling, but somehow my heart still sees her as the girl I married and longs for her. How do I get past these feelings? I started thinking about all the things I had said or done wrong in our relationship and started kicking myself again. I haven't done that in weeks. No matter how "bad" I was to her, she never said a word. I discovered the affair and 2 weeks later she had moved out. She had a responsibility to tell me if she was unhappy, right? She still has never told me that she wants a divorce and certainly has never given me a reason why. But it doesn't even matter anymore. She is long gone and certainly moved on with her life, and I am left here still in shock trying to pick up the pieces. Everyone says it will get better, but when? How? I am trying to stay busy, but my job is an office job with only about 5 coworkers, so there is a lot of downtime and not much social interaction. I don't go out much, I am a guy that put his family first and didn't need to go out to bars for fun. Sadly that is what STBX had been doing for the month or so before DDay. We would go to dinner and drinks together every now and then, but she never had a desire to go out by herself. Then she started going out with cowrkers every weekend and about a month later, I find the text message from OM.

Sorry for rambling so much, it has just been an emotional weekend for me. The PI confirmed my suspicions, and as hard as it is to know it for sure, at least I may have something that can exonerate me in the court of public opinion.

I have a meeting with my attorney this week to work on our response to the petition and decide our next course of action. I want to push it and try to go as far as I can, I just don't want my attorney to advise me to back off and take what she is offering.


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

The last person, I have seen here in three years, to ask for advise about what to do about infidelity is an attorney. Their advice is totally wrong when it comes to infidelity and what a betrayed spouse needs.

Here's what she will tell you. Tuck your tail between your legs, get under the porch, whine and lick your wounds. 

Then watch your wife, kids and the other man ride off in the sunset.


----------



## dadof2 (May 9, 2014)

Chaparral said:


> The last person, I have seen here in three years, to ask for advise about what to do about infidelity is an attorney. Their advice is totally wrong when it comes to infidelity and what a betrayed spouse needs.
> 
> Here's what she will tell you. Tuck your tail between your legs, get under the porch, whine and lick your wounds.
> 
> Then watch your wife, kids and the other man ride off in the sunset.


That's what I am afraid of. I know I can't make evidence appear to make a case, but I also just don't want to roll over and let her and OM and kids live happily ever after.


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

dadof2 said:


> That's what I am afraid of. I know I can't make evidence appear to make a case, but I also just don't want to roll over and let her and OM and kids live happily ever after.


If I were an attorney, inwould be the junk yard dog type. Maybe divorce and infidelity are just to run of the mill for them to give it serious attention.........except for cashing easy checks.

You need to ask her to stop your wife from taking your kids around him until the divorce is final too.

Check out dadsdivorce.com. Be proactive, dads get screwed in divorces if they don't fight and have a good attorney. Are you positive your attorney is a good divorce lawyer?


----------



## dadof2 (May 9, 2014)

Chaparral said:


> If I were an attorney, inwould be the junk yard dog type. Maybe divorce and infidelity are just to run of the mill for them to give it serious attention.........except for cashing easy checks.
> 
> You need to ask her to stop your wife from taking your kids around him until the divorce is final too.
> 
> Check out dadsdivorce.com. Be proactive, dads get screwed in divorces if they don't fight and have a good attorney. Are you positive your attorney is a good divorce lawyer?


Her predecessor in her firm was the toughest family lawyer in our area. She has since retired and my attorney was her understudy. She is supposed to be tough, but all of the "tough" stories I have heard have been from when she represented women. She told me that the family judge in our district is very pro woman/mother, so there may be limits to what we can do. But honestly, my STBX's petition was very fair. She did not ask for sole custody but offered 50/50 right off the bat. She did claim emotional and physical abuse but with no specifics. Also asked for a restraining order against me, which my attorney said is typical of STBX's attorney.

I am okay with the petition for the most part. I obviously want a fair CP settlement and minimal spousal support, but we haven't even gotten to that point yet. I am looking for things I can do outside of the family courts, whether it is bringing a civil suit against OM, or just exposing the affair to the school. But I don't want to do it without legal advice, and that brings me back to the lawyers attitude toward all of this, which I am still feeling out.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Wouldn't you have a different lawyer to handle the civil towards the OM and a different lawyer for the divorce?


----------



## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut said:


> There's nothing behind that link.
> 
> Hint: it's been removed because it was bogus science.


New Scientist website is messed up at the moment. Here's more coverage at Psychology Today. It's certainly not new information. Anyone interested in relationships should have read this in one of about 1500 places already.


----------



## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut said:


> I'm sure semen would be sold as a drug already if it had such great effects.


And you are quite correct in making that guess, as many of the ingredients normally require a prescription when injected by other means:

_But sperm comprise only about 3 percent of semen. The rest is seminal fluid: mostly water, plus about 50 compounds: sugar (to nourish sperm), immunosuppressants (to keep women's immune systems from destroying sperm), and oddly, two female sex hormones, and many mood-elevating compounds: endorphins, estrone, prolactin, oxytocin, thyrotrpin-releasing hormone, and serotonin._


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Also ask for her to be evaluated since she is taking two powerful drugs. What conditions are the drugs for?


----------



## dadof2 (May 9, 2014)

Chaparral said:


> Also ask for her to be evaluated since she is taking two powerful drugs. What conditions are the drugs for?


I'm not sure why she is on adderall. She has been on it for maybe a year. To be honest she is probably taking it for appetite suppression. In the last year she has become obsessed with her body image and has lost a lot of weight. She is 5'7" and prob weighs 110 lbs. When we were married she prob weighed 130-135 and looked great. Ever since we had our last child she has been a workout machine and keeps looking at new diets and workouts. I think someone told her that adderall suppresses the appetite, so she was able to get a script. She is smart enough to tell the doctor what she needs to hear in order to get a prescription. The adderall came from her GP.

She also has a prescription for Xanax. She does have anxiety issues, and gets nervous in situations that she has no reason to be. But xanax is for occasional attacks, not a daily pill you take like an antibiotic. For the last 6 months or so, she would fix a large rum and coke and go to the bedroom to watch tv after the kids went down. I would usually come in an hour later and she would be passed out. I later came to realize that she was taking a xanax with the drink every night. When she would wake up for work, she would then take the adderrall to get her going. It is a vicious cycle, with uppers and downers. Sadly she has prescriptions for both and she is able to function just fine for work.

Being that she requested me to have a mental evaluation for anger management in her petition, I am thinking of having her evaluated for substance abuse.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

dadof2 said:


> I started thinking about all the things I had said or done wrong in our relationship and started kicking myself again. I haven't done that in weeks. No matter how "bad" I was to her, she never said a word.


We don’t know that bad things you did and said in your marriage so we cannot help you evaluate this. I think that mostly you need to determine which of these things are significant and learn to never do them again. You can become a better man. Some day you will find someone else and you can take these lessons into that relationship.


dadof2 said:


> I discovered the affair and 2 weeks later she had moved out. She had a responsibility to tell me if she was unhappy, right? She still has never told me that she wants a divorce and certainly has never given me a reason why.


Yes she had a responsibility to tell you what was wrong. Are you saying that she never reacted to these things that you claim you did? She never withdrew from you? Never ask you to stop whatever it was? Never asked you to spend more time with her? She wants you to be evaluated for anger management issues. I think that’s telling you why she wants a divorce. 



dadof2 said:


> But it doesn't even matter anymore. She is long gone and certainly moved on with her life, and I am left here still in shock trying to pick up the pieces. Everyone says it will get better, but when? How? I am trying to stay busy, but my job is an office job with only about 5 coworkers, so there is a lot of downtime and not much social interaction. I don't go out much, I am a guy that put his family first and didn't need to go out to bars for fun.
> You need to fix your lack of social involvement. It will help you heal a lot quicker. I’m not suggesting that you jump into dating because you are clearly not ready for that. Instead you can get involved in activites that you enjoy and meet people.
> There are a couple of ways to do this. Look at the website Find your people - Meetup They are a site for people to post group activities, clubs, etc . You can search on your city and/or zip code. Here where I live there are so many interesting things… groups that go hiking, canoeing, whitewater rafting, bike rides, all kind of hobby and gardening groups, book clubs, let’s just do dinner clubs and on and on.. all you have to is show up. There are also activities that you can do with your children. And you will not be the only person showing up who does not know anyone.
> 
> ...


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

dadof2 said:


> That's what I am afraid of. I know I can't make evidence appear to make a case, but I also just don't want to roll over and l*et her and OM and kids live happily ever after*.


Ok this is such wrong thinking.

She and OM and your kids are not going to live happily ever after.

They are your children. You are the only father they have. He will not be raising your children, you and your wife will be doing that. 

I could be wrong, but I think that most children do not have much regard for their step parents. It's certainly what I have experience and seen. This is especially true when the step parent was instrumental in the demise of the marriage.

Further, the chance of your stbxw actually having anything more than a short term fling with this guy are so small that's not even worth using one brain cell to worry about. This affair will not last, 97% of them do not.

Once she is done with the novelty of the affair she might very well realize what she has done wrong and wish she had tried to fix things with you.


----------



## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

Dadof2


You want to take some action NOW to strike back at your WW and OM. I am all in on you hitting as hard as you can because they both need consequences for breaking up a family and hurting the children. However, do only what the lawyer says so that you will get a fair settlement. *You do not want to get a short term satisfaction that will cost you in terms of the divorce settlement that will last decades or a lifetime.*


You desperately want her family and others to know that you are not what she said you are. *That tells me that you are too- concerned what others think of you.* You had your self esteem thrown to the ground by your wife and you are vulnerable and want others to see you as worthy and a good guy. You also want to fight back and make them pay. All that is so understandable and I hope that your lawyer is able to make them pay.


I would like for you to realize that you must suppress your obsession with your hurts and your wife as much as possible. After you start suppressing those thoughts then you can DILEGENTLY pursue actions that will build you up? Get all the help that you can. IOW you need to start your rebuilding plan. Just like in sports when a boxer get his AZZ knocked to the ground and loses a fight he starts to rebuild. It will not do much good to expose the fighter for being dirty and head butting and hitting low; the fight is over and you have lost. Now you rebuild so that you can win in the future. You can not win much now because you are devastated. *So let your attorney handle the legal part and you start rebuilding your self esteem and get ready to win in the future. IOW CONSENTRATE ON YOU IMPROVING YOU without the depressing and paralyzing thoughts about your wife affecting you so much.*

I realize that you are hurt to the bone and I have all the sympathy in the world for you but what good is that? *You have put way too much of your self worth in your wife and you need to be more self sufficient. *Your wife has a serous character flaw and is not the girl that you married. *You long for that girl because your heart is hurt and you have to not let your heart rule in this situation.* She has chosen her desires over her marriage and her children. That is a very serious selfish action and is not worthy of any admiration or longing for her at all. Your statement of “But my heart still sees her as the girl I married and longs for her” is unfortunately detrimental to you. You need to take the hurts that you have and get angry and use that anger to rebuild yourself so that you can have a very good life with or without her.

Stop being obsessed with your wife; she is history, start focusing on you and your children ONLY! That will pay off big time for you in the future. For now you will just have to suffer the hurts and exchange the hurts for self improvement.

*some situations in life do not give a shyt about feelings and emotions and require the jungle kingdom life; only the strong survive!*


----------



## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

As a follow up to EleGirl’s excellant post I want to add the following.

Dadof2, 
you become the best father and man that you can and in the future the chances of your children choosing you over the OM are HUGE; almost 100%!

As EleGirl has stated the step father was part of breaking up the marriage. *He, the OM if he stays, was part of the cause for separating the children from their real father for 50% of their child life.*


Also, the chances of the OM staying with your WW are about 3% Living a life with your WW will not be as great as the OM thinks. *It is not desirable for a man to stay with a cheater that would betray her marriage, and choose her desires over her children.* In addition, living with a woman/man for years is a LOT Less exciting as pumping them in the bedroom without any responsibility! The OM will lose a lot of interest in your WW after he lives wth her and has to deal with the real life.


*If you take the right action in the years to come you will be your children’s hero and will have a very good life*


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

At least you have some news from the PI. You have more information. The hard fact and the biggest you are going accept is you wont get vindication and her family wont ever believe you publically. Will they know the truth deep down inside, they already do most likely, will they ever hold her accountable highly doubtful. They just bury there heads in the sand. Been there and done this myself, I even had pictures and they just said I photo shopped them. They will excuse and justify just about anything when it comes to family many times. 

You will be exonerated in the world of public opinion much more as time passes, people do tend to see what is really going on and the wonderful world of gossip only lasts so long. The more of a good father you are, follow a path of moving forward no matter how hard it is the better off you will be and the quicker people will see she is full of stories and lies. 

Your playbook again is following the dreaded path of mine, Xanax you cant just take periodically and needs to be taken daily. My stbx had similar issues and was on Lexipro. Just like you mine never ever complained, never said we had problems or issues. She quit taking her meds and within a month the wheels fell off, the affair was in full force and she moved in with him. Don’t rule out the fact she is either overmedicating or stopped and both will have powerful side effects including the fear and paranioa which plays into again why suddenly you are the monster. 

This doesn’t excuse the behavior of her, she made the decision and has to be held accountable so don’t fall into the possibility of feeling sorry for her or whatever. Right know you are again stuck in the no win position, if you express these concerns to her family she will spin it and you will look nuts yourself. 

Yeah Im full of good news for you aren’t I? Now more, considering that you haven’t been served yet and she is out of town I would suggest that you prepare to be served early this week. Her excuse will be the “fear” and wanted to be in a safe place away from you when this happened. That’s what she will tell her family. That would be my bet. She also cant hold onto the paperwork forever and I am surprised the time limit hasn’t run out yet. 

Your going to get nowhere trying to sue the OM and will just make you look petty/vindictive and will gain him sympathy. Complaining to his work is different but do talk to the lawyer about this just to cover your own butt. I believe in a previous post you thought he was looking at a different position anyway so problems at the school may force his hand and he will leave town if he isn’t doing that anyway which is when the affair will end probably. 

You have no idea what a money pit the world of divorce is so do pick your fights carefully. When my stbx filed I told her between the two of us we would spend about 10k on divorce and she laughed that it would never happen as we have an easy divorce, no kids. 15 months later she has over 20k in a lawyer and I got close to 14k and we are nowhere and im not really fighting anything, her “instabilities” have gotten so bad and the drama just fuels her and I have no end realistically in sight. Im not faulting you for wanting the truth to come out, that will happen eventually. Best advice, cut your deal, get out of her life and take care of your kids for you have no idea just how down the hole she will fall till she hits bottom. Yes I have rambled, sorry.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Dadof2

You are still too nice.

You got the PI. You proved their is a relationship.

That works for you. That works for your divorce.

Remember, your lawyer works for you. You can listen to her advice but you can also make it very clear what your goals are.

One of your goals should be to teach your wife a lesson. Respect.

Respect for you.
Respect for your family.

SO make it a point to show her consequences.

Expose her at work. You really need to do this. Not for her to lose her job but to expose the affair. It will show everyone you are not a chump.

Expose her to her family. How? By citing infidelity in your divorce response.
Get the OM subpoena'd.
Show her family that she is one month out of the house, still married, separated but has been involved in her affair for months.

Do it to protect your family.
Do it to show her and her family that you are a man that will go to any length to protect his kids.
Do it to show them that she is a liar and a cheat. You are not angry. Just scorned.

And rightfully so.

I am not saying to throw thousands of $$$ away on the PI or the lawyer. Do it to show just how disrespectful she has been to you, your marriage and your children.'

I have a friend in Tenn. that went through what you are going through.

He ended up with the kids, the house and most of the $$$. Rare but it does happen.

Stick to your principles.

And make sure you get out for some "me" time while the kids are at the beach.

HM


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Especially since she is doing an amphetamine in th morning and xanax in the evenings.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Chaparral said:


> Especially since she is doing an amphetamine in th morning and xanax in the evenings.


This is important to reveal that you are concerned for the kids.


----------



## dadof2 (May 9, 2014)

Mr Blunt said:


> Dadof2
> 
> 
> You want to take some action NOW to strike back at your WW and OM. I am all in on you hitting as hard as you can because they both need consequences for breaking up a family and hurting the children. However, do only what the lawyer says so that you will get a fair settlement. *You do not want to get a short term satisfaction that will cost you in terms of the divorce settlement that will last decades or a lifetime.*
> ...


Thanks for the good advice Blunt. I can really tell how sincere you are. I agree with what you are saying, its just hard to live it every day. I am trying to turn the corner and tell myself I don't need her and wouldn't want her anyway after knowing what she has done.

You are right, I have put all of my self worth as a man into my marriage and children. I felt like I was a good man because I had a pretty wife and great kids. I didn't need personal satisfaction, I got all the happiness I needed when I walked in the door from work in the evenings and my wife would kiss me and the kids would run and hug me. Now that life is gone, and I am struggling to find my place again. I know I have a lot going for me, but I guess it is just a long process to finding that I can be self reliant and get over this hurt I feel now.

It is so surreal that I go back and forth between anger/hurt and then I want to be nice and not be vindictive to make her upset. It is so crazy. She has hurt me so much I ought to be balls to the wall ready to make her pay. I am like this about 80% of the time, and the other 20% I find myself missing her. I don't want to miss her but I can't control it.


----------



## dadof2 (May 9, 2014)

honcho said:


> At least you have some news from the PI. You have more information. The hard fact and the biggest you are going accept is you wont get vindication and her family wont ever believe you publically. Will they know the truth deep down inside, they already do most likely, will they ever hold her accountable highly doubtful. They just bury there heads in the sand. Been there and done this myself, I even had pictures and they just said I photo shopped them. They will excuse and justify just about anything when it comes to family many times.
> 
> You will be exonerated in the world of public opinion much more as time passes, people do tend to see what is really going on and the wonderful world of gossip only lasts so long. The more of a good father you are, follow a path of moving forward no matter how hard it is the better off you will be and the quicker people will see she is full of stories and lies.
> 
> ...


Thanks as always for the perspective, Honcho. It seems like we are a lot alike both with spouses and our views on the situation. I agree that anything I could do to expose to her parents will be spun into the crazy monster angle. I am going to meet with my lawyer this week and see where the PI information gets us. Unfortunately we don't have proof of adultery yet and my never get it. We do have proof of a relationship and I have prior evidence (text messages) from when we were still married that shows the affair has been going on for months. If we arent going to put adultery in our petition, that is when I think I will begin the full exposure to her family and principal. I don't want to do it just yet because I don't want to tip my hand early in case we can gather more evidence from the PI. Obviously if I expose what I know no to principal and family they will go underground big time.

Right now it is just a waiting game. I want to know something NOW and I am ready to start my exposure NOW but there is nothing I can do right now but wait. She is getting exactly what she wants in the short term- vacation, parents supporting her, new boy toy to run around with all summer- but I hope my patience can pay off and make her be held accountable at some point.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Dadof2

Patience is important.

Do you play poker?

Will your attorney let you ply poker?

Do you know how to bluff?

Because if I had evidence of their relationship while she was still living at home and the PI has evidence of them together then you should plan a strategy with your attorney to bluff them.

To scare the crap out of them.

To make them fear losing their jobs.

To make them hide, cower from their coworkers, peers and members of their family.

So you can get the best outcome for yourself, your kids and your future.

You do not need her love and in time your will not want her love.

But you should always demand her respect of you.

And never let her forget what will happen if she foks with you or the kids.

That is why you need to do this IMO........

HM


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Lawsuits can become all consuming. Lawyers will suck you dry. Think deeply before you stake your spirit on the courts.

Cheaterville when written in plain fact takes the fun out of the affair. Both OM and WW will not enjoy their colleagues knowing looks. Raunchy jokes will be told in the teachers lounge.

OM may have enemies at work. They will spread the CV link. Human nature will have some rooting for true love, others will see this affair as immoral.

For exposure to have effect do not wait.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## dadof2 (May 9, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> Lawsuits can become all consuming. Lawyers will suck you dry. Think deeply before you stake your spirit on the courts.
> 
> Cheaterville when written in plain fact takes the fun out of the affair. Both OM and WW will not enjoy their colleagues knowing looks. Raunchy jokes will be told in the teachers lounge.
> 
> ...


Right now they are all off on summer vacation. So any breaking news like this, be it on CV or anything else, will not be widespread until August. As of right now my plan is to meet with my attorney on Friday morning, find out exactly what she got from the PI, and see where we go from there. I am going to push for filing a complaint with the school board, even if we don't have enough for adultery in family court. If she (lawyer) doesn't want to file a complaint, then I will ask for a meeting with the principal of the school and do the exposure myself.


----------



## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

How goes it, bro?


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

helolover said:


> How goes it, bro?


Get the latest from his other thread in the CWI forum...

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/196418-wife-separated-space-now-om-has-been-discovered.html


----------



## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

WolverineFan said:


> I wouldn't recommend doing what I did - I freaked out and called her in an emotional wreck. I scared the death out of her and she thought I was suicidal. I don't know how to explain this but knowing it is coming and seeing it in your hand are two different things. I thought I would be ok but I wasn't. When I read the words in black-and-white my heart just shattered.
> 
> Have the two of you been to counseling at all? What are you doing to have support in your life? I don't know if you attend church or not but isolation is a killer. Getting into a men's group could be very helpful.
> 
> ...


And dont call the phone helplines, many of them will just try to workout if youre suicidal, even pushing you to say something along those lines,; and nekt-minute you'll have cops and mental health turning up on your doorstep (or anyone that you might know if you aren't home at the time). <- the things they don't tell you in the ads. call us for help, so we can arrest you...


----------

