# Husband has no friends - male opinion needed please!



## daisygirl 41

As in my title my H has no friends. This is by choice. He isn't very tolerant of others. He gets on ok with my friends and their Hs and will attend social gatherings as a couple. 
He says he doesn't need friends and he is quite happy with his own company.
Is this normal? 
He had an EA. turned PA last year. We are 6 months into R and we are doing really well. I just worry I'm not enough for him?
He has a lot of interest, working out, politics, reading etc and we do a lot together as a couple and he's great with the kids.
Any thoughts? Am I worrying about nothing?
Thanks all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Stonewall

I wouldn't worry about it. I really don't have any either nor do I care to. I love my wife and want to be around her and the family but other than that I'm a loner. I just don't like people I guess.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

Some people are not that social. I'm one of those people as well. My husband has put his old friends aside and only sees them once or twice a year. He likes to stay home with me. I, too, have many interests inside my home. I'd prefer to be alone then around others.


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## 40isthenew20

When I was younger I had tos of guys I always hung out with. Thst dwindled when I got married because we didn't live as close to one another. But we always went out on one of our birthdays for drinks somewhere in the middle. 

As the years passed, that became less frequent. Now I may see or even speak to them only once a year. We all have families and busy lives with work. So it's bound to happen. 

I hate talking on the phone so that isn't always a good option. Guys are like that- we can go a year without touching base and when we do, it's like old times. 

No big deal.


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## LearninAsWeGo

I think this is a legit concern. It's not really normal.

If you read 7 habits of highly effective people, it talks about different "centers" in people's lives. I tend to think it's dead on, and it's the best $5 you ever spent on half.com . If all of the friends are "our friends," then he's probably either centered on spouse, on kids... or centered on self (much more likely if he had an affair). If he's centered on you, then he will be jealous of your friendships, see them as competition, and be unhappy. If he's kids centered, that's ok, but it will put space between you since he won't get his adult conversation and empathy/socialization needs met. If he's centered on himself, then he's likely to reach out for affairs in times of depression or loneliness. Either is no good obviously.

That said, there's a difference between real friends, and work friends and drinking buddies. I'd much rather have 2 or 3 good friends than dozens of chummy work pals or guys who I can go get drunk with. It's possible he grew apart from his old friends (either goals/values or just geographic). If so, he needs to get social hobbies like bowling league, softball, church mens retreat, etc. Have him take the kids to sports games or school events, and the networking is very easy and natural. Think of the animal kingdom: the males largely hunt and group together, and the females and young do their thing. They intermingle, but it's not natural to always be without same gender relationships. As a man, I can tell you that I'll never have nearly as much in common with any woman as I do with my longtime guy friends.

GL


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## Pinkme

My H sounds exactly like yours. Mine is a bit reserved and I am out going and very social. He likes to stay home and do things with our kids and I. He socializes with my friends husbands and we do go out and ride 4 wheelers, fishing, activities etc. But he will not go out of his way to plan an activity with friends.


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## ATC529R

Pinkme said:


> My H sounds exactly like yours. Mine is a bit reserved and I am out going and very social. He likes to stay home and do things with our kids and I. He socializes with my friends husbands and we do go out and ride 4 wheelers, fishing, activities etc. But he will not go out of his way to plan an activity with friends.


this.....

It's perfectly normal.


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## naga75

40isthenew20 said:


> When I was younger I had tos of guys I always hung out with. Thst dwindled when I got married because we didn't live as close to one another. But we always went out on one of our birthdays for drinks somewhere in the middle.
> 
> As the years passed, that became less frequent. Now I may see or even speak to them only once a year. We all have families and busy lives with work. So it's bound to happen.
> 
> I hate talking on the phone so that isn't always a good option. Guys are like that- we can go a year without touching base and when we do, it's like old times.
> 
> No big deal.


:iagree:
this.
i do not have many friends that i see on a constant basis. none, really.
a couple that live/work out of town and when they come back we will hang out and have dinner and a few beers so on and so forth.
i have do have a recreational softball team that i play with on a weekly basis.
but like 40 says, as you get older and have kids and work etc etc, all the "guys nights" and all that jazz become rather unimportant as i rarely have time to pursue my own endeavors, let alone anyone elses.
i think its a good thing to be totally involved with your family first and foremost. friends are secondary to that.


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## jaquen

daisygirl 41 said:


> As in my title my H has no friends.
> ...Is this normal?
> He had an EA. turned PA last year. We are 6 months into R and we are doing really well. I just worry I'm not enough for him?
> He has a lot of interest, working out, politics, reading etc and we do a lot together as a couple and he's great with the kids.
> Any thoughts? Am I worrying about nothing?
> Thanks all.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The majority of the posts from the men on this board you're going to get will tell you that it's no big deal. In my experience TAM is the land of friendless men. There is a topic on this board where a large section of TAM husbands admit that they are pretty friendless, and most don't seem to have a problem with it.

Friends are extraordinarily important to me, and my wife. I think it's very odd for a person not to have at least one true, real friend. I don't want to think about my life in terms of the kind of friendless existence that is typical for a lot of men, at least as seen here on TAM.

But there's nothing you can really do about this. If your husband doesn't really like people in general, and is making no efforts to infuse his life with friendship, than your worrying is in vain. It ain't gonna happen until/unless it happens.


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## naga75

i have a couple friends like that, jaquen.
i just dont place their importance ahead of my family's importance or my responsibility.
i dunno. i guess i just dont have very much free time between working, upkeep of the ranch and working/building things around the house to really pursue deep friendships.
but like 40 says, when we see each other its like we hung out last week. and these are friends that live 1500 miles away that i see maybe once every couple years. those are real friends.


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## jaquen

naga75 said:


> i have a couple friends like that, jaquen.
> i just dont place their importance ahead of my family's importance or my responsibility.
> i dunno. i guess i just dont have very much free time between working, upkeep of the ranch and working/building things around the house to really pursue deep friendships.
> but like 40 says, when we see each other its like we hung out last week. and these are friends that live 1500 miles away that i see maybe once every couple years. those are real friends.


This doesn't seem like a friendless existence to me at all. You have real friends, life circumstances make it tough to see one another regularly, but when you get together it's all good. That's _real_ friendship.

Also, a real friend wouldn't really expect you to put the friendship ahead of your family, or your responsibilities.

I will admit, it helps that we don't have kids together. That allows both of us more time to keep in contact with friends. Most of us live busy lives, so neither of us are in constant physical contact with friends (even though I have a lot of them). But with our best friends, of which we both have a few, we do text and online chat with them regularly, several times a week. Those are the people who have basically moved beyond mere basic level friendship and have become essentially family.


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## naga75

exactly, jaquen.

so, OP...he has no friends, WHATSOEVER?
like, none? no one he sees or talks to outside of your friends husbands?
if so, yes i might take that as odd, but thats just me.  im essentially a loner in everyday life but i do have friends, as jaquen and i have stated, that i reconnect with on occasion.


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## Ten_year_hubby

While this may be normal these days, it is certainly not optimal. Every man needs some kind of trustworthy male input and isolating oneself from this will cause an out of balance condition and that is not going to end well. Work with him and encourage him to find something he can do with other men at least once a week. Try your local Big Brothers chapter


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## aston

daisygirl 41 said:


> As in my title my H has no friends. This is by choice. He isn't very tolerant of others. He gets on ok with my friends and their Hs and will attend social gatherings as a couple.
> He says he doesn't need friends and he is quite happy with his own company.
> Is this normal?
> He had an EA. turned PA last year. We are 6 months into R and we are doing really well. I just worry I'm not enough for him?
> He has a lot of interest, working out, politics, reading etc and we do a lot together as a couple and he's great with the kids.
> Any thoughts? Am I worrying about nothing?
> Thanks all.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry to hear that. It seems like his lack of cultivating healthy friendships might cost him his relationship with you.
Has he considered seeing a therapist? Is it a phobia of some kind?


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## Lon

There is another thread about this subject and it seems most guys on here have let their past frienships fizzle and haven't made many new ones in their place. I think it is "normal" I don't think it is entirely healthy. But the demands of being a modern man seems to manifest as somehow becoming without many friends to do guy things with.


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## daisygirl 41

naga75 said:


> exactly, jaquen.
> 
> so, OP...he has no friends, WHATSOEVER?
> like, none? no one he sees or talks to outside of your friends husbands?
> if so, yes i might take that as odd, but thats just me. im essentially a loner in everyday life but i do have friends, as jaquen and i have stated, that i reconnect with on occasion.


No he has no other friends. When we met he was in the military and had some good friends but didn't keep in touch with them when he left. He always says nobody matches up to the men he was friends with there. Which I can understand in way. 
He left the army 17 years ago and settled in my home town. His dad lives 400 mile away and he has 2 sisters who he doesn't speak to.
He's always said he didn't need anyone but me and the kids, which was fine, I accepted it and glad he wasn't a gut to go out drinking and staying out late. He'd rather watch the sport at home and enjoys solitary/ family pastimes. Which never bothered me and it DOESN'T really bother me now, but as a poster pointed out earlier, because he hasn't got ANYONE else, when our marriage was going through a bad patch he didn't have anyone to turn too and so his unhealthy friendship started.

We've been through a lot this last 18 months. Hs A combined with some kind of MLC/breakdown but we really are getting to a good place again now, but I just wonder if Ihe needs more then me and the kids? He says no, so I suppose I have to except it.

He won't go to counselling. His therapy is taking the dogs on a 2 hour walk!

Thankyou all for you input. I really appreciate it and as I can see opinions differ on this subject!
DG
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41

aston said:


> Sorry to hear that. It seems like his lack of cultivating healthy friendships might cost him his relationship with you.
> Has he considered seeing a therapist? Is it a phobia of some kind?


Our reconciliation is in a good place now Aston but I agree with you on the healthy friendship thing! He turned to a female co worker when we were having problems and we've just been through 18 months of hell because of it!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jaquen

Ten_year_hubby said:


> While this may be normal these days, it is certainly not optimal. Every man needs some kind of trustworthy male input and isolating oneself from this will cause an out of balance condition and that is not going to end well. Work with him and encourage him to find something he can do with other men at least once a week. Try your local Big Brothers chapter


It is such a strange, relatively new, Western concept, this idea that men are to forsake the friendship and companionship of other men for the sake of making his wife, and children, the focal point of his entire social existence.

In most societies, throughout history, including many modern ones, men spent a large chunk of their days in social contact with other men. It is how men have always been. This new notion, of the female centric male, is...odd. It seems to be a combination of the shift toward a more feminized culture, along with the overall degradation of community.


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## naga75

daisygirl 41 said:


> He won't go to counselling. His therapy is taking the dogs on a 2 hour walk!
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


i can understand this.
my therapy is saddling my youngest horse and working her.
she always helps me get my head on straight. unless she is being hard headed. lol.


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## jaquen

Lon said:


> There is another thread about this subject and it seems most guys on here have let their past frienships fizzle and haven't made many new ones in their place. I think it is "normal" I don't think it is entirely healthy. But the demands of being a modern man seems to manifest as somehow becoming without many friends to do guy things with.


Yes.

It also seems to be regional as well. I live in New York City. It seems that everyone I know here has a good deal of friends. I have a lot of friends, some of them I'd consider very close, as do all of them. Not sure I know a person, married or single, here in the city who doesn't have friends.

The TAM thread you're referencing was a huge eye opener for me.


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## daisygirl 41

naga75 said:


> i can understand this.
> my therapy is saddling my youngest horse and working her.
> she always helps me get my head on straight. unless she is being hard headed. lol.


Lol. He's really had some dark moments throught the last 18 months. His remorse and guilt about the pain he has caused me is very difficult for him at times, but a good couple of hours in the outdoors always does him the world of good!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41

jaquen said:


> It is such a strange, relatively new, Western concept, this idea that men are to forsake the friendship and companionship of other men for the sake of making his wife, and children, the focal point of his entire social existence.
> 
> In most societies, throughout history, including many modern ones, men spent a large chunk of their days in social contact with other men. It is how men have always been. This new notion, of the female centric male, is...odd. It seems to be a combination of the shift toward a more feminized culture, along with the overall degradation of community.


I've always encouraged him to socialise, play football (uk), golf or just go out for a pint and watch the game, but he just doesn't want too. He prefers solitary pastimes. I suppose its just him!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Trickster

Hey Daisy,
I am just like your hubby. My wife and I have been together for twenty years now and she may be my only friend... For a long time, as we spent so much time together, we both lost track of past friends and being that we had each other, it didn't really matter.

20 years ago, I had my drinking buddies, but no close friends. I do keep in touch with a friend from H.S. Life and distance makes it hard to hang out. 

I do hang out with my wife and some of her friends (which are the parents of our daughters friends) and I get along well with the dads, but they're not what I would call friends.

Now... Unlike your husband, I wish I had friends...guy friends. I took up jogging, bike riding as well as rowing/sculling which is kinda part of the 180 thing I was doing. I found myself spending too much time away and now, I am trying to find that balance. I am working on it though.

My wife always trys to push me to talk more to the other dads at school events. It's hard...I am working on that part of me. Maybe I need therapy myself!


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## Wazza

I think you are probably worrying about nothing.

My wife is a party animal and I am not, so we have had the same tension. She enjoys talking about the weather and other such minutiae with near strangers for hours and hours and hours. Yawn. I would rather have a smaller circle of deeper friends who I can enjoy more substantive conversation with. I don't need a large circle of acquaintances to validate my worth.

Additionally, the people I count as close friends right now happen to all be women. For a married man that obviously needs careful management to avoid affairs or the suspicion of affairs. It's not by design...I have had close male friends in the past and we still see each other sometimes, but there are many years and lots of water under the bridge. I don't avoid men, but you can't choose who you click with.

I do have some interests that involve socialising with men, and I enjoy their company, but if the activities were to discontinue I don't know how much I would keep in contact with them. I don't drink heavily, I don't frequent strip joints and I am not into spectator sport or cars...I usually find not doing those things creates a plethora of social limitations with men.

I make an effort to be more social than I would prefer for the sake of my wife. But we have to meet half way. Insisting I want the same things socially as her would be like insisting I order the chicken instead of the beef because she did, in my thinking.


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## CH

40isthenew20 said:


> I hate talking on the phone so that isn't always a good option. Guys are like that- we can go a year without touching base and when we do, it's like old times.
> 
> No big deal.


So true, when we start talking about the good old days, almost every single person will say, will you guys STFU and actually talk about something else, instead of all the same **** every time you guys see each other.


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## Faithful Wife

Not having male friends is dangerous to a man's autonomy, according to the NMMNG book (and other sources).


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## Wazza

jaquen said:


> This doesn't seem like a friendless existence to me at all. You have real friends, life circumstances make it tough to see one another regularly, but when you get together it's all good. That's _real_ friendship.
> 
> Also, a real friend wouldn't really expect you to put the friendship ahead of your family, or your responsibilities.
> 
> I will admit, it helps that we don't have kids together. That allows both of us more time to keep in contact with friends. Most of us live busy lives, so neither of us are in constant physical contact with friends (even though I have a lot of them). But with our best friends, of which we both have a few, we do text and online chat with them regularly, several times a week. Those are the people who have basically moved beyond mere basic level friendship and have become essentially family.


I'd be interested to see that thread. Link?

A lot of the individual points you make have merit, but as you say kids make a difference. I might have been like you pre fatherhood, to some extent at least.


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## indiecat

I guess the important issue is whether he opens up to you.
Does he bottle things up inside, or does he talk about his feelings/needs with you? 
Has he tried to contact any old army buddies? Maybe you could encourage that and say that even if you had to travel to see them that would be fun.
I'm so sorry you had the trauma of his A. It does make a wife question herself, it shouldn't because that is NEVER the answer to any of life's issues, but it is
very difficult all the same.


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## jaquen

Wazza said:


> I'd be interested to see that thread. Link?
> 
> A lot of the individual points you make have merit, but as you say kids make a difference. I might have been like you pre fatherhood, to some extent at least.


At the same time I have friends with kids, and they have friends with kids, and they still maintain active social lives and close friends; the kids grow up knowing "uncle so-and-so", or aunt "whatchamacallit". Of my wife's two best friends one has a kid, and the other is married with two small children who are a handful, and they still make time. And the majority of men worldwide are able to maintain really strong personal bonds with other men, regardless of how many kids they have.

So it's definitely possible.

Oh yeah, here is the link:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-c...ti-social-most-men-like-me-5.html#post1108920


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## Wazza

jaquen said:


> At the same time I have friends with kids, and they have friends with kids, and they still maintain active social lives and close friends; the kids grow up knowing "uncle so-and-so", or aunt "whatchamacallit". Of my wife's two best friends one has a kid, and the other is married with two small children who are a handful, and they still make time. And the majority of men worldwide are able to maintain really strong personal bonds with other men, regardless of how many kids they have.
> 
> So it's definitely possible.
> 
> Oh yeah, here is the link:
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-c...ti-social-most-men-like-me-5.html#post1108920


Thanks for link.

Possible, yes. Desirable....that's the question.


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## jaquen

Wazza said:


> Thanks for link.
> 
> Possible, yes. Desirable....that's the question.


Not for me. The thought of my life shrinking to the size of my wife, and whatever children we may have, as my sole source of human social connection is... abhorrent. 

I guess I'm just too much like my dad. He had over a dozen children, and it was always vital to him to maintain friendships.


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## Wazza

jaquen said:


> Not for me. The thought of my life shrinking to the size of my wife, and whatever children we may have, as my sole source of human social connection is... abhorrent.
> 
> I guess I'm just too much like my dad. He had over a dozen children, and it was always vital to him to maintain friendships.


Hi, sure, my wife is like that too.

Not criticising your position at all. It's great. Just not for everyone.


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## Lon

jaquen said:


> Not for me. The thought of my life shrinking to the size of my wife, and whatever children we may have, as my sole source of human social connection is... abhorrent.
> 
> I guess I'm just too much like my dad. He had over a dozen children, and it was always vital to him to maintain friendships.


My dad only had two children and it was always vital to him to maintain friendships too. I guess I'm not like my dad at all.

Maybe its because I resent that my dad always put his friends above his family, or that I never had a healthy balance to model myself after - when we had time with him it was usually quality time, and we knew he loved us and looked at us with admiration, but he wanted no part of child rearing, my mom was the one that sacrificed her social life in order to meet the requirements of parenthood, feeding us, cleaning the house, shopping for the food and clothes and organizing our family activities... and she was the one that constantly had to rewrite her friendships depending on the activities my brother and I showed interest in.

Maybe if my dad was more of a family guy and was able to maintain his friendships and still have a visible role to myself and my brother, then I would not be instilled with the sense responsibility I do to make sure that the necessities are provided for and feelings of guilt and neglect from any time away from the domestic life.


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## Cre8ify

IMO there are very healthy reasons to have guys friends. First off, it requires something from you. If you put something in and invest time and energy in another person it tends to come back around. I have lifelong friends that I travel to see and it might only be once a year but we pick it up right where we left off, and we don't forget each other. 

Guy relationships could not be more different than what women have. If women go off together they will bond by covering every emotional issue under the sun. We can spend a weekend together playing cards, fishing whatever and never get to the first emotional issue. We will have lots of laughs though bagging on each other.

My household is all estrogen so its kind of an escape hatch...nuff said.


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## daisygirl 41

indiecat said:


> I guess the important issue is whether he opens up to you.
> Does he bottle things up inside, or does he talk about his feelings/needs with you?
> Has he tried to contact any old army buddies? Maybe you could encourage that and say that even if you had to travel to see them that would be fun.
> I'm so sorry you had the trauma of his A. It does make a wife question herself, it shouldn't because that is NEVER the answer to any of life's issues, but it is
> very difficult all the same.


For many years he bottled things up. We married young and I guess while raising a young family and worrying a kit money, actually TALKING to each other about our feelings accidentally got out in the back burner. H alas ways struggled with expressing his emotions as he has always had a deep fear of rejection ( this has all come out since the A). His father was a very authoritarian figure, and being the only boy in the house he pretty much got the blame for everything when he was growing up. His father has never given H any credit, not even a pat on the back for anything he has ever done, he has always felt 'not good enough'. He left home at 16 to joint the marines and when we met when he was 21 he hadn't spoken to his parents for nearly 3 years! 

Anyway, got a bit sidetracked the , he opens up more now, that was one of the conditions of us getting back together, but I still have to dig and persuade him to open up. I've told him that if our R is to be successful then he has to open up to me and tell me when he isn't happy about something or a situation. It's foreign to him but he's trying. He not totally emotionally shut down though by any means, he is very loving and affectionate to me and the children and he has no issues about declaring his love for me and doing nice romantic gestures. Our sex life is pretty healthy now too.

He is in touch with a few of the guts from the army, very sporadically though. Just a few words now and again through FB. It was his 40th birthday in March and I was going to arrange for a few of them to come and stay as a surprise for his birthday but we were going through a really bad time at that point. They're a great bunch of lads (men). Ill see if I can sort something out for the new year. Or should I just leave it to him?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41

Lon: the feelings of guilt is something we have discussed lately. We have both said that over the years we have BOTH felt guilty for time spent away from the family but where that sense of guilt has come from I don't know as neither of us has ever said that outside interests or hobbies weren't allowed! 
I think we are both still trying to sort this one out. Our children are getting older now so it's getting easier but I suppose I've felt guilty over the years for spending time with friends and doing things outside the home because he never does, but I suppose that's HIS choice isn't it?

I went through intensive IC last year and its helped me a great deal. I think H would really benefit from some IC but he's really not interested. I think also I am recovering from the A in a healthier way than he is. I feel stronger and more able to face our problems and meet them head on but H seems to have lost his spark at times and has become a bit more introverted! 
One of the things that came out of my IC was that I am a 'rescuer' and a 'fixer'. Knowing I have that trait I'm trying to take a step back and giving him the space to sort this out for himself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pault

I fall in toi the H with no friend. In my 20's I had 6 male friends, we went everywhere and got in to more harmless trouble than its worth. However, when I got married, I was the first and one night I went with the guys to the local town (thats where we'd normally go) and started having a few drinks when they suggested that they would go to a party near by. I went and found it wasfull of single and playing away people. I drank up quickly, made my excuses and ran. I made a vow as I walked 3 miles home that I would NEVER place myself in a position like that again especially as i considered that if Id stayed Id not be involved with anyone but what would/could my W feel if she found I was in that circle. I wouldnt like it if she was in there and I placed a self imposed restriction on myself because of my feelings for my wife. My only friend and someone I see each week is a family member. My W recently in a fit of rage over issues we had threw the friendless issue at me (Id noted she was out acting like a sigle female but didnt suspect her of being unfaithful but she was treading on the single actions) When I gave her the full, no holds barred explained of what happened 20 years earlier she looked shocked and hurt. At first he got annoyed that Id left it go this long to say anything, I explained calmly that I had made small mention to the "boys needing to act married" many times before but she hadnt picked up on the issue. Following that I made it clear I worked in a larege multi national and the hours were huge = 80 hours a week working and travelling so when I came home and had a weekend id put my family first and spent the time with them - now Im out of that environment but still dont like to have friends as I want to speand time Id lost years before being there for them , My choice soley as I felt guilty that I missed so much of the early family years. Now they see a commitment I made to my family, things are alot different and Im no longer accused of being Billy No Mates. More sides to men not having friends than just not being friendly


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## shahidsaif

hello hi i do not think it is entirely healthy. thanks.


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## Wazza

jaquen said:


> Not for me. The thought of my life shrinking to the size of my wife, and whatever children we may have, as my sole source of human social connection is... abhorrent.
> 
> I guess I'm just too much like my dad. He had over a dozen children, and it was always vital to him to maintain friendships.


Read the other thread and formed this idea.

Some people want to socialise more than others.

Depending what they ave to do for work and so on, some people have to socialise more than others.

For me the combination was, I need some social interaction and some time to myself. I went through a phase in life where I was required to socialise at work and in supporting my kids at school, sport, etc. that was as much social interaction as I needed and I didn't have enough time to myself. So some friendships atrophied.

My wife would be different, more like you, because "me" time is less important to her.

I've also had the experience of being betrayed by a close friend, therefore I am less likely to trust people unreservedly.

Dunno if DaisyGirl can see her hubby in any of that?


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## Plan 9 from OS

I think there can be certain distinctions made within this thread. What I think is normal is that many men when they hit the late 30s and on will lose regular connections with many different people in their lives. It doesn't mean that it's necessarily healthy, but it's common enough to be normal. I don't have nearly as many friends as I used to in the past. I got lazy with keeping up connections. But that doesn't mean that I am not social and couldn't make new friends if I wanted to. 

What I consider abnormal is the lone wolf mentality. When someone says that they need only their wife and kids - and shut others out - that's unhealthy and I don't think normal.


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## Gaia

Why is it unhealthy? What if the man prefers it that way? That just may be who he is. I don't think its unhealthy at all. Why? Because as a woman... I prefer the company of my spouse and children. I'm not very social... that's just who I am. I have had many friends irl and many times I have felt overcrowded by them. I get that most people are social and very interactive but there are just some of us who aren't. Its just who we are. Now I don't mind doing things like posting on forums like this or texting but I'm not big on always having someone over or going out and doing things with others. 

I don't believe it has anything to do with being female centralized or whatever terms are being tossed about. Like I said... I'm a woman and I much prefer the company of my spouse and kids over other people. I wouldn't suggest the OP push the issue as he may feel forced into something he doesn't want or like to do. I'm sure if he wants to seek friendship with other males and go out and do things... he will but only when he is ready.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chumpless

Maybe the guy just thinks he's better than all his buddies in so many ways. Forget the beer chugging and hazing. I'd much rather be me.

That said. There's healthy balance, and the W will appreciate and maybe even encourage it. Some male bonding outside of the marriage and family is a requirement. Even if you have no friends, just get out and find a pool hall or something. Your wife will respect that.


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## Chumpless

Yes, Jim Morrison.
I spend at least 2 hours a day, every day, reading.
It's amazing how out of touch with the rest you can find yourself eventually.

But if you're comfortable with you, than that's all that matters. Wives, if they're not on the same page, are just luggage.


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## unbelievable

My wife accuses me of having no friends. I don't have friends in the same way a woman has friends. I can go to the restroom alone. I don't need to validate every minor life experience by "sharing". I don't need a buddy's opinion before I buy a pair of jeans. I talk to scores of people every day. I'm polite and friendly. I have brothers and I have a couple male friends. We get together when there's a reason. Maybe we work, maybe we fish. We don't go get couple's massages and talk about our feelings. We don't borrow each others' clothes or do each other's hair. We don't hold each other and cry. 
If I don't hear from one of them for a day, I don't assume they have been abducted and murdered. I completely understand women need the support of close associates. It fills an important need and it goes back to caveman days. I'm a guy. I function fine the way I am.


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## Gaia

unbelievable said:


> My wife accuses me of having no friends. I don't have friends in the same way a woman has friends. I can go to the restroom alone. I don't need to validate every minor life experience by "sharing". I don't need a buddy's opinion before I buy a pair of jeans. I talk to scores of people every day. I'm polite and friendly. I have brothers and I have a couple male friends. We get together when there's a reason. Maybe we work, maybe we fish. We don't go get couple's massages and talk about our feelings. We don't borrow each others' clothes or do each other's hair. We don't hold each other and cry.
> If I don't hear from one of them for a day, I don't assume they have been abducted and murdered. I completely understand women need the support of close associates. It fills an important need and it goes back to caveman days. I'm a guy. I function fine the way I am.


Lol love this post.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jaquen

Wazza said:


> My wife would be different, more like you, because "me" time is less important to her.


Oh no, I definitely am not like your wife. I need, crave, and require quite a bit of solitude. It's of extraordinary importance to my well being. I spend much more time alone than I do with friends, and even my wife. I've always been like that. As much as I truly love my friends, they are vital to my well being, nothing replaces the solitude.



Wazza said:


> I've also had the experience of being betrayed by a close friend, therefore I am less likely to trust people unreservedly.


Yes, I know the pain of that. I guess I'm just lucky in that it never led to reservations with other friends.


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## Ten_year_hubby

Gaia said:


> Why is it unhealthy? What if the man prefers it that way? That just may be who he is. I don't think its unhealthy at all.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


With all due respect, isolation (and that's what this is) is unhealthy from a number of different perspectives and I will start with one of the most important.

The isolated man is missing (at least) half of his necessary feedback loop because he gets no male input. He has no personal accountability to other men. He has no way to measure the external effect of internal changes (and yes, even men change over time). At its worst, this kind of lifestyle choice set a stage that allows one to "go off the deep end" without any way of knowing. We all need someone outside of ourselves to reflect us back to ourselves in a way that only a member of the same sex can.


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## Wazza

Ten_year_hubby said:


> With all due respect, isolation (and that's what this is) is unhealthy from a number of different perspectives and I will start with one of the most important.
> 
> The isolated man is missing (at least) half of his necessary feedback loop because he gets no male input. He has no personal accountability to other men. He has no way to measure the external effect of internal changes (and yes, even men change over time). At its worst, this kind of lifestyle choice set a stage that allows one to "go off the deep end" without any way of knowing. We all need someone outside of ourselves to reflect us back to ourselves in a way that only a member of the same sex can.


I don't really understand your point. Can you give a concrete example?

Also, how deep des the interaction with another male need to be to serve the purpose you describe?


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## Wazza

jaquen said:


> Oh no, I definitely am not like your wife. I need, crave, and require quite a bit of solitude. It's of extraordinary importance to my well being. I spend much more time alone than I do with friends, and even my wife. I've always been like that. As much as I truly love my friends, they are vital to my well being, nothing replaces the solitude.


So if you HAD to choose...if there was not enough time and you had to let friendships atrophy or have no solitude, what would you choose?




jaquen said:


> Yes, I know the pain of that. I guess I'm just lucky in that it never led to reservations with other friends.


How can it not logically change the way you perceive relationships? I'm not talking about bitterness here, I'm talking about understanding limits.


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## jaquen

Gaia said:


> Why is it unhealthy? What if the man prefers it that way? That just may be who he is. I don't think its unhealthy at all. Why?


That's like asking why would it be unhealthy for your children to never socialize and connect with other kids. 

Men are shaped in large part by other men; their fathers (or lack thereof), siblings, and peers. The vast majority of human societies understand this fundamental truth; men need time with men, and women need the same. This very modern, Western trend of men throwing their social groups out for the sake of revolving their lives around a woman, and their kids, is so counter to typical human social norms. And I think the consequences are real, and very apparent. 

Of course people are free to fly in the face of this norm. That's a matter of personal freedom, and choice. But I do think that some people do not have a clue just how damaging this can be to one's identity, one's sense of community and belonging.



Wazza said:


> So if you HAD to choose...if there was not enough time and you had to let friendships atrophy or have no solitude, what would you choose?


I'd chose the solitude. The real friendships wouldn't atrophy.



Wazza said:


> How can it not logically change the way you perceive relationships? I'm not talking about bitterness here, I'm talking about understanding limits.


Why would what one person does to me push me to judge what all people do? That's like saying that if a woman comes up to me and slaps me in the face I should then, on some level, suspect that all women will come up to me and slap me on the face.

I have been blessed with some extraordinary friendships. Those friendships are no less incredible because a couple of people phucked it up.


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## jaquen

Forever Sad said:


> I don't have any friends. I have been hurt and abused in the past by my so called 'friends'. I have been lied to, cheated on, been made to feel like a fool, and had it made clear that my opinions or input do not mean anything.
> 
> I have major issues trusting people. Like my mama says, you can only depend on yourself. I also lost who I was and put walls up. I used to be funny, witty and interested in anything. But now I can't talk to people.
> 
> I have one 'friend' who I consider my best friend, however he is ont the other side of the country, he never rings me, I just ring him when I feel like talking. He never asks about me, we just talk general stuff that we are interested in. However, I always make an effort to ask about him, his job and his family.
> 
> I am a difficult guy to get to know. With my one 'friend', it took literally years for our relationship to grow.
> 
> I don't trust people, I do not want to let them in. I know people think I am a bit strange. I do have flashes of my 'old self', but not very often.
> 
> And yet, I do want at least one male friend who I can have a laugh with. I am in a town with no family, though I do have work. These guys do make me laugh (when I am feeling ok). But I just can't be myself with them. Or anyone. And I simply don't know where to go to meet people. I am not on FB. I also suffer from anxiety, but I take medication (Xanax) and with what I have been through, I am tapering off this med as I am not scared of the world anymore.
> 
> I'm a strange guy. Like Jim says, 'people are strange when you're a stranger'.
> 
> D


I have a female friend who sounds _exactly_ like you. I had to look at your post count, and location, just to make sure it wasn't her.

I hear you. This is a very tough place to be in.


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## Wazza

jaquen said:


> Why would what one person does to me push me to judge what all people do? That's like saying that if a woman comes up to me and slaps me in the face I should then, on some level, suspect that all women will come up to me and slap me on the face.
> 
> I have been blessed with some extraordinary friendships. Those friendships are no less incredible because a couple of people phucked it up.


For e it reduced my tendency to lean on others and made me more selective as to who I confide in. If a woman comes up and slaps you you should suspect that all women MIGHT do the same. At least that's my view.


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## Ten_year_hubby

Wazza said:


> I don't really understand your point. Can you give a concrete example?
> 
> Also, how deep des the interaction with another male need to be to serve the purpose you describe?


I'll answer the second question first. Deep enough that you respect his opinion of you.

Every day we pick up the paper and read some awful story about some man somewhere doing something terrible. These poor guys are almost invariably described as being loners or "kept to themselves". Now men in groups, like gangs and organized crime is another story, but there seems to be a common theme of isolation in the lives of all these "shoot em up" guys


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## jaquen

Wazza said:


> For e it reduced my tendency to lean on others and made me more selective as to who I confide in. If a woman comes up and slaps you you should suspect that all women MIGHT do the same. At least that's my view.



And then there is forgiveness and letting go. A good friend of mine abandoned me at a very crucial, painful moment. I dropped the friendship. A year later I realized I missed it, contacted him, he asked for forgiveness, I told him I'd already let it go, and we're closer now than we have ever been in the past by far. Some betrayals and hurts can be gotten past, and some not. It just depends on what's best for you.

Holding on to crap, and assuming that this one bad thing might likely happen again, doesn't hurt anybody but you.



Wazza said:


> If a woman comes up and slaps you you should suspect that all women MIGHT do the same. At least that's my view.


This doesn't make any sense to me. It's so very counter to how I live my life.


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## Chumpless

Wazza said:


> I don't really understand your point. Can you give a concrete example?
> 
> Also, how deep des the interaction with another male need to be to serve the purpose you describe?


Although I agree somewhat, I'm inclined to point out that there are cases where men can lose a lot of respect toward other men just merely based on the others' opinions. Personally, I'm drawn to people who can sift through the BS and form their own opinions. Those who are characters and can think and act for themselves. These types are few and far between. As for the majority, my bonding with them would equate to little more than a night of cards and bottle of whiskey.


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## Chumpless

Ten_year_hubby said:


> I'll answer the second question first. Deep enough that you respect his opinion of you.
> 
> Every day we pick up the paper and read some awful story about some man somewhere doing something terrible. These poor guys are almost invariably described as being loners or "kept to themselves". Now men in groups, like gangs and organized crime is another story, but there seems to be a common theme of isolation in the lives of all these "shoot em up" guys


If you need friends to be comfortable with yourself, I think that's weak. Nothing wrong with being "anti-social" if it's that way for good reason.

On the contrary, a lot of successful, creative and intelligent people have lived a somewhat isolated lifestyle. Think the author who retreats to their secluded rural getaway for a year or two to write their next best-seller. Of course there are exceptions to the extreme as you point out.


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## Wazza

jaquen said:


> And then there is forgiveness and letting go. A good friend of mine abandoned me at a very crucial, painful moment. I dropped the friendship. A year later I realized I missed it, contacted him, he asked for forgiveness, I told him I'd already let it go, and we're closer now than we have ever been in the past by far. Some betrayals and hurts can be gotten past, and some not. It just depends on what's best for you.
> 
> Holding on to crap, and assuming that this one bad thing might likely happen again, doesn't hurt anybody but you.
> 
> 
> 
> This doesn't make any sense to me. It's so very counter to how I live my life.


It might be bitterness or it might be realistic appraisal. But sometimes you do just have to put yourself out there, take the risk.

But for me I seek to be more self sufficient. And it happens that my close confidants nowadays are mostly women.


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## jaquen

Chumpless said:


> If you need friends to be comfortable with yourself, I think that's weak.


Human beings develop socially. There is nothing "weak" about becoming comfortable with yourself via social interactions. Just because a person grows up and decides to strike out alone does not negate the fact that they were built socially during their formidable years, and largely by same sex social interaction.

Adult isolation is one thing. But children who are isolated are susceptible to so many psychological and emotional ills.


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## Chumpless

jaquen said:


> Human beings develop socially. There is nothing "weak" about becoming comfortable with yourself via social interactions. Just because a person grows up and decides to strike out alone does not negate the fact that they were built socially during their formidable years, and largely by same sex social interaction.
> 
> Adult isolation is one thing. But children who are isolated are susceptible to so many psychological and emotional ills.


Agree, but this was my point:

_"If you *need* friends to be comfortable with yourself, *I think that's weak*." _


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