# Wife had a full on PA



## AZman (Nov 27, 2012)

So, just over a month ago now I found out my wife had been having an affair for several months with another guy. She had been friends with the guy, knew him through work though they didn't work together, it escalated from friends and they started having a PA that lasted about 6 months. During that time we moved states, (about 1000 miles away) for her job, but her job still required her to return to that city where they would see each other. 

I caught her as she had an issue with her cell phone, went to using an older one for a bit, and forgot to delete texts off it when the new replacement one came. Otherwise she was totally hiding everything. I knew something was up, but was told all was okay, so I started investigating and thought to check the phone. Never did I think I would find what I did. Obviously reading the texts sucked horribly. As not only was there talk about sex, but also saying "I love you" "I miss you, can't wait to see you" etc. 

I should also note that she lied to me that she needed to go to NOLA for work, but that was not true, he had to go to NOLA for work, so she went for 4 days and played house. I outed her, she admitted it. She did the no-contact and has maintained it as far as I can tell, but she was really good at hiding it for 6 months so what do I really know, right?

She says there was no discussion of running away together etc. I got to hear the no-contact call. Never thought I would ever have to hear my wife break up with her BF.

We have started marriage counseling, and I have started individual as well. She is starting individual too. All different counselors. I really like my counselor and have seen her at least weekly since it happened-I feel that she is helping. I also saw a specialist and got a diagnosis of depression, which really wasn't a surprise as I would have guessed it before finding the affair, I just wasn't willing to recognize it. So I am not taking anti-depressants which help, but having never taking psych meds before in my life, taking the now with the fact that I hate meds in general isn't always fun.

I believe she is trying for reconciliation, and we are trying. We talk more, I have access to anything I want (email, phone, laptop etc.). 

I guess where I am stuck is the questions and how people deal with them. Stuff that in the end doesn't really matter but it is stuff I wonder about. Like when did it actually start? how many times did she see him? In the end it is irrelevant, it doesn't change she was unfaithful, it doesn't change she betrayed me, but they stick in my head. I know at my core that the answers to some of these questions won't change a thing in the end except possibly make me angrier and more sad. How have others dealt with these feelings and thoughts?

He is married and has a wife/kid. I haven't done anything with that yet, but haven't taken it off the table, but have said I really could care less about him and generally don't have him in my mind. I don't think I will do anything with it, though initially showing up at his house one morning, ringing the doorbell, punching him in the throat, handing is wife a print out of the texts and walking away happened several times, that dark thought is gone now. 

I know our marriage was in a bad place, I know we were both unhappy and not helping that get better we weren't addressing it, but I also know that in the end it was her choice to go outside the marriage, period. I take responsibility for my role in our marriage getting to a bad place, but she made the choice to cheat, she owns that 100%. 

We have a young child together and are going on 10 years of marriage. I want to try to reconcile, and want to for me/us and not just for my child, I know that is a horrible idea. 

I guess I just get stuck and angry with those questions. I fear them too, if I get the answer to "how many times?" will it be so bad that I can't handle it? I have told her she has to be able to answer a few questions for us to more forward, first why? why did she do it? I need to know that. I also need to know if this works, what will she do differently, what boundaries will she put in place in the future so this does not occur again?

Everything I have written above I have said to her, often on more than one occasion. I guess I am looking for camaraderie in pain, and hoping to get some ideas on how to get past the questions. Thanks!


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

AZman said:


> So, just over a month ago now I found out my wife had been having an affair for several months with another guy. She had been friends with the guy, knew him through work though they didn't work together, it escalated from friends and they started having a PA that lasted about 6 months. During that time we moved states, (about 1000 miles away) for her job, but her job still required her to return to that city where they would see each other.
> 
> I caught her as she had an issue with her cell phone, went to using an older one for a bit, and forgot to delete texts off it when the new replacement one came. Otherwise she was totally hiding everything. I knew something was up, but was told all was okay, so I started investigating and thought to check the phone. Never did I think I would find what I did. Obviously reading the texts sucked horribly. As not only was there talk about sex, but also saying "I love you" "I miss you, can't wait to see you" etc.
> 
> ...


I suggest you find a way to contact the omw and make a copy of those texts.
If your w gets mad about the exposure you will know she is still in contact with him and in a false r.
She needs to know the pos that she married.

How old is the kid?
Just to show what you think of her word I would DNA test the kid in front of her.


----------



## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

And this is why I tell people not to reconcile. The last time you were here we said that this would happen. You still plan on staying with her?


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Rethink this please...

Your marriage was in a bad place because she was going elsewhere putting energy in the affair.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> And this is why I tell people not to reconcile. The last time you were here we said that this would happen. You still plan on staying with her?


Mad If he has the slightest chance he has to expose like today.

If you have to fly back to tell her then do it.


----------



## AZman (Nov 27, 2012)

Kid is mine, no question on that, kid is 7. I am not questioning that on any level as the kid looks like me, has many of my personality traits etc. 

All I have said is I am willing to try, I have also said that "I could wake up 3 months from now and say F-this, I can't deal with the trust issue and be gone." Yes, she was putting effort into the affair, yes the affair was her choice. I also recognize that our marriage was in a crap place before the affair and had been for a while. I am not saying I had anything to do with her choice, or that it is my fault on any level. It was 100% her choice. Yes, she previously had an EA (different person). The reality of my situation does not escape me. It truly doesn't. At this moment, yes, I am willing to TRY Reconciliation. YES, I know for some that sounds insane, stupid, etc. At THIS MOMENT, I am willing to live with the risks and costs of that choice, again that could change in 3 days, 3 weeks or 3 months. Middleman, I appreciate your feedback, I did before too. I weigh the decision I make every day, and today I got up and said "try" tomorrow is a new day and maybe the answer will be different. 

What I am wondering is how have others dealt with the questions, the what ifs? The **** that answers won't change.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Please Az

That was not the point.

It is to show her their are consequences and you can't believe a word she says.
That you are, if need be, ready to move on.

Whether the kid is yours was not the point.
Peace bro.


----------



## Another Planet (Aug 8, 2012)

tom67 said:


> Rethink this please...
> 
> Your marriage was in a bad place because she was going elsewhere putting energy in the affair.


I have said this about my wife so many times!If she just would've used that energy she used on her affair we would be so good right now.....but she didn't so I divorced her because she sucks and is a terrible person.


----------



## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

tom67 said:


> Rethink this please...
> 
> Your marriage was in a bad place because she was going elsewhere putting energy in the affair.





Another Planet said:


> I have said this about my wife so many times!If she just would've used that energy she used on her affair we would be so good right now.....but she didn't so I divorced her because she sucks and is a terrible person.


Here's the thing guys. Women don't have affairs and lose romantic interest in their husbands. They lose romantic interest in their husbands and then have affairs. Most men have a tough time getting their minds around that fact.


----------



## AZman (Nov 27, 2012)

tom67 said:


> Please Az
> 
> That was not the point.
> 
> ...


Thanks, and I get it. I have taken steps to protect myself too. I have copies of all the texts, I have spoken to an attorney just to know where to go/what to do if that is the road I choose. I am not deluding myself or going at this blindly by any means. I saw a book suggested in another thread called "Not just friends" or something like that, I will pick it up and read it as well.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

AZman said:


> Thanks, and I get it. I have taken steps to protect myself too. I have copies of all the texts, I have spoken to an attorney just to know where to go/what to do if that is the road I choose. I am not deluding myself or going at this blindly by any means. I saw a book suggested in another thread called "Not just friends" or something like that, I will pick it up and read it as well.


Good
And read married mans sex life primer when you have time.
It's an eye opener.


----------



## AZman (Nov 27, 2012)

tom67 said:


> Good
> And read married mans sex life primer when you have time.
> It's an eye opener.


Will do


----------



## Another Planet (Aug 8, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> Here's the thing guys. Women don't have affairs and lose romantic interest in their husbands. They lose romantic interest in their husbands and then have affairs. Most men have a tough time getting their minds around that fact.


Yes women have a lower threshold for sanctity in marriage. You always have to be playing the game for them.....

For the record I do not believe this. This is exactly what you said, I just made man sense of it for the public to help them understand.

No offense to you Pheonix


----------



## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> Here's the thing guys. Women don't have affairs and lose romantic interest in their husbands. They lose romantic interest in their husbands and then have affairs. Most men have a tough time getting their minds around that fact.


This is often the case, but it is not uncommon for a woman, previously happily married, to take the bait from a high ranking male, if offered. In either case, the solution is the same.


----------



## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Make her sign a POST--NUP, with a DURESS clause.

Like it or not---you need to get answers, reason being---your sub--conscious, will fill gaps with imagination, which may or may not be worse than the reality of what she did

You do need the why---and if she has no why---than have her tell you what she was thinking, at the time of her deceit/manipulation/lying, etc.

You say your mge, was in a terrible place---but you did not go out looking for another woman---so bad mge or no---she had no right for what she did---if she was unhappy with the way things were going---why did she not spend the time to FORCIBLY sit you down, and talk about the marital problems, or why did she not put D, on the table---instead she took the worse possible course of action---that of giving herself to another man

Your kids---know there is something wrong---neither of you can hide what is happening, no matter how hard you try

As to R---what boundaries are in place---what ACTIONABLE CONSEQUENCES, have been put on the table----how is she being held ACCOUNTABLE, what is her level of remorse

What is she REALLY doing to put the family she has just destroyed---back together again

At this point, you should not display much in the way of being nice---bad marital situation or not---this now takes precedence---and she MUST know---this is not being taken lightly by you---and she better not treat it any other way, than with the greatest of seriousness

Tell the other wife---2 reasons---she is entitled to know the kind of lowlife scum she is married to---and she will be your ally---in stopping any further, continuation of this A.

I don't know how long you intend to be a parole officer---but that is gonna be your life, for a goodly period of time---and then begs the question---as to the future---what if the mge gets off track again---5 years from now---she already knows how to cheat, and hide it---what makes you think she will not do this again---she has already cheated on you twice---Post--nup, may be a deterrent, but it won't stop her---she had this PA---knowing full well the destruction, she was going to bring down on those who loved her, and were her family---so it is obvious, she is very SELFISH, and does not really care about you and the kids---her words may say one thing---HER ACTIONS SPEAK MUCH LOUDER AND TELL YOU A DIFFERENT STORY ALTOGETHER


----------



## Another Planet (Aug 8, 2012)

You guys realize that just the fact that you think you have to research, practice, and study how to be Alpha means you are Beta right?


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Another Planet said:


> You guys realize that just the fact that you think you have to research, practice, and study how to be Alpha means you are Beta right?


Ugh I'm 46 and have a 28 yr old gf.

I went through ic for about a year and I'm doing ok.

Mainly because I just have an ef it attitude.

It still for me is a daily process.
Remember the kansas song
"If I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know."

That was from carry on now wayward son I think.


----------



## Another Planet (Aug 8, 2012)

tom67 said:


> Ugh I'm 46 and have a 28 yr old gf.
> 
> I went through ic for about a year and I'm doing ok.
> 
> ...


Gothca ya man. Not saying anything negative, I just don't like the black and white thinking. I'm not against bettering yourself at all.
Nothing wrong with figuring out how to get the princesses, but I'm after the Queens to rule the land!


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Another Planet said:


> Gothca ya man. Not saying anything negative, I just don't like the black and white thinking. I'm not against bettering yourself at all.
> Nothing wrong with figuring out how to get the princesses, but I'm after the Queens to rule the land!


I'm so sorry your story makes my blood boil.

Your w is so sick you should go for FULL custody imo.
Your d is coming up.
For your own self respect/sanity go scorched earth on those scumbags...please.
I'll buy the popcorn.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Another it will get better.


----------



## rubpy3 (Nov 19, 2013)

Buddy, the deeper you dig, the more sh*t you are going to find. Just found out for myself the past couple of weeks. Remember the movie Titanic? "A woman's heart is deep as the ocean".

Let go. Let go of the outcome. Free yourself. Detach yourself from the reality. It's easier said than done, read my thread. You will find yourself venturing into the depth of hell - and you just gotta keep marching on. I tried so many times to convince myself that my case is special, it's unique - guess what, other members of this forum can predict what my wife will say couple of days in advance.

The truth is - a cheater is all too predictable. They follow a script that had being written for thousands of years. Listen to your heart, listen for those "back of mind" voices - your ancestors has fine tuned a threat detecting system that has guaranteed a successive lineage of your DNA for thousands of generations.

I may sound bitter, but, a cheater is a cheater. A cheater will always cheat when opportunity presents itself. Christians, muslims, atheists - they all follow the same routine. You are not special; your wife is not special; I'm not special; no one is special. 

Let go of the outcome. Be true to yourself, act with integrity, honesty, and determination. Stand up for yourself, and act with compassion. Have some balls, and get a little macho. No matter what, don't be a crying wuss. Remember - all easier said than done. I know it from experience.


----------



## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

tom67 said:


> Ugh I'm 46 and have a 28 yr old gf.


One of my clients is 72 and his wife is 37. He told me he stopped counting at 1200. Even today he acts like he's 27. His T level was 800 about 8 months ago. Leg presses the full stack and wears 29 jeans.


----------



## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Another Planet said:


> You guys realize that just the fact that you think you have to research, practice, and study how to be Alpha means you are Beta right?


Nope. Not Alpha, since I'm not a Dark Triad sociopath, at least I hope I'm not. Never gave it a thought back when the girls and their moms were chasing me as none of these terms had even been invented yet, although the behaviors are as old as humanity. But now that I'm older, I'm interested in the "whys", retroactively. Plus, in my line of work, the topic comes up a lot.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> One of my clients is 72 and his wife is 37. He told me he stopped counting at 1200. Even today he acts like he's 27. His T level was 800 about 8 months ago. Leg presses the full stack and wears 29 jeans.


I'm 5'7 tore my right shoulder on the incline press doing 320.

It took time but went back to the flat bench.
Best I have done is 345.
I should go back to standard deadlifts though.


----------



## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

tom67 said:


> I'm 5'7 tore my right shoulder on the incline press doing 320.
> 
> It took time but went back to the flat bench.
> Best I have done is 345.
> I should go back to standard deadlifts though.


That's pretty good. I know it's old school, but I recommend decline bench, because it doesn't shred shoulders. Unfortunately, I was a little too late learning that lesson.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> That's pretty good. I know it's old school, but I recommend decline bench, because it doesn't shred shoulders. Unfortunately, I was a little too late learning that lesson.


An old school gym I went to in the 90s had the decline.

Most new one's don't.


----------



## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

tom67 said:


> An old school gym I went to in the 90s had the decline.
> 
> Most new one's don't.


The new one's don't have a lot of things. Like a pullover machine. Use a flat bench and put a block under the foot of the bench.


----------



## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Expose to the POS's BW ASAP.

A) She deserves to know the reality of her M

B) POS will almost assuredly come sniffing around again IF he has no consequence for screwing up your life. If he is scrambling to save his own a**, he will not be looking to mess with your family again.

You let her get off consequence free from her EA a couple years ago. 

If you don't want to be here again, you had better makes sure this time she truly sees the consequences for continuing her s****y behavior after you caught her before. 

Part of that is making her see POS throw her under the bus to save himself. Only then will she truly see that she wasn't 'soulmates' or special to this guy at all.

She will then realize she was just a piece of a** and got played hard. 

She risked everything for POS because in her 'fog' she thought he really loved her. 

She has to understand that she could possibly lose her family and life as she knows it because of a player jacka**.


----------



## TheFlood117 (Mar 24, 2013)

OP, you gotta go full on exposure- OM wife, family, friends and acquaintances far and wide. Then kick her out and file for divorce. Then start dating other women. That should just about wake her up- for better or worse. 

Don't rugsweep and be a doormat.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

TheFlood117 said:


> OP, you gotta go full on exposure- OM wife, family, friends and acquaintances far and wide. Then kick her out and file for divorce. Then start dating other women. That should just about wake her up- for better or worse.
> 
> Don't rugsweep and be a doormat.


:iagree:
He speaks the truth.


----------



## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

Another Planet said:


> You guys realize that just the fact that you think you have to research, practice, and study how to be Alpha means you are Beta right?


Not everyone is an Alpha, most aren't, so you have to learn to be comfortable in your own skin. Not taking sh!t anymore is a great place to start and keep yourself in shape and get a chnage of clothes - for yourself dude. But forget about this idea of being and Alpha - just be true to yourself. 

Soon after DDay, 8 months ago, I made some loose arse machoesque remark and followed it up with "....that's what and Alpha would do right?". She said - "that's not Alpha that's just some d!ckhead comment....".

I said "Right, so an Alpha wouldn't do that?". She replied "They just know what to say". Or something like that. More humiliation - but it wasn't me, I set myself up. I was faking it; f**ked up in the head big time at that early stage and in no man's land (deliberate pun). 

Boy did my eyes open up then and continue to do so for months - I was nowhere near the totem pole. Since those days I've learnt to go easy on myself and take care of myself physically & mentally. 

Our Reconciliation is not going well but I'm a different "man", a better man, than I was 8 months ago.


----------



## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Another Planet said:


> You guys realize that just the fact that you think you have to research, practice, and study how to be Alpha means you are Beta right?



Everybody is Beta.

I know several really Alpha types, and what I see in all of them is that they bully a lot and fight for the upperhand, be the dominant male in all situations. Picking on weak persons especially.

I wondered a lot about this, why do they need it??

I came to the conclusion that although they successfully play the domination game in everybodies eyes, they are themselves uncertain, and convinced they need to mask this with even stronger Alpha behavior.

Which is ofcourse exactly the right evolutionairy Alpha success situation.

But, internal they are Beta.


(for the ease of discussion going along with this Alpha/Beta interpretation)


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

AZMan

Can I make a suggestion?

Since you want to reconcile with your wife and keep your family together you should do the following:

A. Make the reconciliation effort real. Not half assed. Go into it 110%. Communicate everyday even if that means getting in her face and asking her the hard questions that she will not want to answer. Don't settle for "I don't knows".

B. Inform the OMW. Not out of spite but to possibly have an ally that can take the OM out of the picture as best you can. Do not tell your wife you are doing this. This is a test for her to see if her BF contacts her and she tells you. 

It is also a sign of strength that you will show your wife that you are no longer accepting her " Plan B".

C. Set a date in your head that only you know. 6 months or a year from today. That is the day you re-evaluate your relationship with your wife. Her remorse, her respect of not only you but your marriage.

That is the day you decide if the reconciliation is working for you. Not her. That is the day you decide if she is worth forgiving. Not that you will ever forget her infidelity.

Reconciliation takes two strong spouses that not only love each other but respect each other. They also love their family and want to keep it whole.

We know what you want but your wife obviously did not share the same values as you. If she did you would not have had to listen to her breaking up with her BF.

You need to expose the Affair with as little drama as possible.

I wish you good luck. Don't sit on the side lines. Reconciliation takes two spouses whether you created this crap sandwich or not......

HM


----------



## Rottdad42 (Nov 26, 2012)

I would like to ad my 2cents, for her to pour that time and energy into something that should have applied to you and your marriage, get's under my skin. A marriage is not easy, we all know this, but that is why in some respects we marry. It's to share are lives with someone we love, somewhat unconditionally. When people lack in these areas, we share that with our SO. Our deepest, darkest, most intimate thoughts. We don't worry about what has been said, because we TRUST that person. If you don't have trust, what's the point. For her to go outside the marriage and look for that chemical, she should be getting from you just plain sucks. How do you reconcile knowing she has done this. Me personally I can't and won't. I have a hard tome pouring my inner to someone, only for them to turn around and shrug it off and play with someone else. No care or concern for you, period! If you do reconcile, protect yourself, these folks here who do reconcile will give you the info you need. Keep coming here for your support. I wish you luck in this time of holidays, they will never be the same, because you will trigger, trust me.


----------



## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

AZman said:


> I caught her as she had an issue with her cell phone, went to using an older one for a bit, and forgot to delete texts off it when the new replacement one came. Otherwise she was totally hiding everything. I knew something was up, but was told all was okay, so I started investigating and thought to check the phone. Never did I think I would find what I did. Obviously reading the texts sucked horribly. As not only was there talk about sex, but also saying "I love you" "I miss you, can't wait to see you" etc.
> 
> She did the no-contact and has maintained it as far as I can tell, but she was really good at hiding it for 6 months so what do I really know, right?



Sounds like how I busted mine 2 weeks ago. If I were to have an affair, texts would be deleted immediately. How these women can be so dumb to leave them on their phone for any length of time is beyond me. Which brings my other point. I asked this of my wife....was she really good at hiding it or was i just naive and never thought she would do this so I didnt investigate hard enough when my gut knew something wasnt right. Considering how we busted our not so smart wives, I'm going for the latter.



AZman said:


> I believe she is trying for reconciliation, and we are trying. We talk more, I have access to anything I want (email, phone, laptop etc.).
> 
> I guess where I am stuck is the questions and how people deal with them. Stuff that in the end doesn't really matter but it is stuff I wonder about. Like when did it actually start? how many times did she see him? In the end it is irrelevant, it doesn't change she was unfaithful, it doesn't change she betrayed me, but they stick in my head. I know at my core that the answers to some of these questions won't change a thing in the end except possibly make me angrier and more sad. How have others dealt with these feelings and thoughts?


You're going to get all sorts of advice on this. Some will say leave her instantly and will bash you for not doing so. They may be right, I dont know. All I can tell you, as someone going through the same thing, is that you have to find a way to keep moving forward. I doubt you got full disclosure. I know I didnt at first. I knew there was much more then she was telling me. If she wont tell you the full truth, accept the worst possible scenario(they had sex multiple times, EA was extended period of time, etc) and ask yourself if you can accept that and move on. The hardest part is going to be getting the images out of your head. Those are a killer. The other thing is all on her. She has to win you back, not the other way around. Tell her you will out the OM, even if you have no intentions of doing so. See how she reacts. If there is the slightest hesitation, she still cares for him. If she doesnt care at all, then there is still hope. She needs to be completely transparent and understand she no longer has privacy in the marriage. I think a remorseful spouse will have no problems with this.



AZman said:


> He is married and has a wife/kid. I haven't done anything with that yet, but haven't taken it off the table, but have said I really could care less about him and generally don't have him in my mind. I don't think I will do anything with it, though initially showing up at his house one morning, ringing the doorbell, punching him in the throat, handing is wife a print out of the texts and walking away happened several times, that dark thought is gone now.


I feel you on this. I know everything about the OM. EVERYTHING. I could easily destroy his financially and emotionally. Hell, I could knock him back to the stone age if I wanted to. He's a total loser and I dont have the time or energy to waste on his sorry ass. I still havent decided when/how/if I will do to him. Hes not a priority right now and hes scared sh!tless because he knows I hold his life in my hands.




AZman said:


> We have a young child together and are going on 10 years of marriage. I want to try to reconcile, and want to for me/us and not just for my child, I know that is a horrible idea.
> 
> I guess I just get stuck and angry with those questions. I fear them too, if I get the answer to "how many times?" will it be so bad that I can't handle it? I have told her she has to be able to answer a few questions for us to more forward, first why? why did she do it? I need to know that. I also need to know if this works, what will she do differently, what boundaries will she put in place in the future so this does not occur again?
> 
> Everything I have written above I have said to her, often on more than one occasion. I guess I am looking for camaraderie in pain, and hoping to get some ideas on how to get past the questions. Thanks!


I'm still asking myself those same questions. In the end though, I'm finding it wouldnt change anything. The why part is the one that bugged me the most. Does it really matter why? Its done. Why is irrelevant and your probably wouldnt get the truth anyways. As far as how many times, well if she wont tell, or if you dont believe her, assume the worst. Assume it was ongoing and multiple times. Always assume the worst, then ask yourself if you can get past that. 

Also, as far as boundaries.....you put the boundaries on her. I made it very clear to my wife that she no longer has privacy. She gave up her cell phone, I canceled her FB, gym membership, and I have her email password. I told her she doesnt even get to lock the door to our bathroom when shes taking a shower. She has zero privacy until I can find a slight bit of trust in her. Thats the only way I would stay and she has to earn everything back.

Again, you're going to get all sorts of advice on here. You have to do what you think is best for you. Just because person A said it didnt work out for them doesnt mean it wont for you and vice versa. If you want to R with her, she must show that she is fully remorseful and the OM means nothing to her.

Good luck my friend, I'm so sorry you're here but its a good place to be with others who feel like you do.


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

If you do not inform the OMW, there is little chance he wont be coming back after your wife. As a matter of fact you need to do more than that. Consider outing him at his workplace. Put him on cheaterville.com. You will know by your wife's reaction to these actions or lack of reactions as to whether she is still lying or not. Here are the Wayward Spouse Instructions you may print off and read with your wife. They have helped many people here. Sorry for the length and sorry to the original writer. I haven't been able to find where they originally came from.

_Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.

The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand.

YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.

They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you’ll never cheat again. But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don’t see much change – at least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to moment, from one emotion to the next. They’re unpredictable. There’s no discernable pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can’t sleep. They can’t eat. Their thoughts are obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacks assault them without warning. They cry at the drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and their life until they feel like there’s nothing left. It’s terrible.

It’s an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what’s worse; you don’t know what to do. You’re not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they’ll get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they’re always caught by surprise; first by their partners’ knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never think about what they’ll face “after” until after. The fact is: Though they inflict it, adulterers are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses’ overwhelming emotional distress. Is this real? Is this permanent?

As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to “normal.” You ask yourself, “Is this real?” Then you ask, “Will this ever end?”

The simple answers are: Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time, often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient, empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse?

Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)

But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding from this disaster you’ve wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage. The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery.

So, take a couple of deep breaths… and let’s start with three foundational facts:

What you’re seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event.

Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal.

You can be a positive influence on their recovery.

Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat them without looking, continue.

Your first mission is to learn.

Learning about your partner’s myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize, understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through
this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time.
Below you’ll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don’t be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we’ve added some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there may be little for you to do except to simply “be there.”

Most importantly, remember at all times: Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse. Act accordingly.

SECTION 1 - THE WILD PATCHWORK OF EMOTIONS

DISBELIEF: They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can’t be true. They don’t believe it. This is natural. They trusted you and don’t want to believe you did what you did. It is common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.)

SHOCK: They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled. They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can’t seem to apply sufficient concentration to their day-to-day lives.

REALITY: “Oh my God. It really happened.” They feel they’re getting worse. Actually, reality has just set in. It’s as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they’re buried beneath them. They don’t know where to turn, or can’t. Don’t discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family. Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never accuse them of “being irrational” or “acting crazy.” Be supportive and encouraging. Commend them for seeking help.

CONFUSION: They’re disoriented. They can’t think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once they get there they can’t remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them. Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain “triggers.” (Note: Read more about “triggers” below.)

PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS: They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains, numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to rule out other causes. Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don’t nag. You might instead take control of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don’t cook, take them to restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If they’re not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It’s a good way to ease them into a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide opportunity for you to begin constructively re-establishing your “couplehood.”

CRYING: Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing and even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help. So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by gently encouraging them, to “get it all out.” Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you’ll see many more references below. Read “Apologize” in Section 2.)

SELF-CONTROL: They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain. Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to regain equilibrium. Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a dam. So don’t be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even themselves. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel this way to you when it happens, it’s beneficial.

NEED TO KNOW: They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited. Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, but they need information to process their trauma, move through it, and move past it.

Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you’re still keeping them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don’t match the story you tell, they’ll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you’ll never again be unfaithful.

WHY: They ask, “Why did you do this?” They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly. Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can’t stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you, they are still silently asking the question “Why?” over and over and over again.

INJUSTICE: They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”
Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”

A sad truth of infidelity is: It is unfair. Of course, there is no “justice” that can come from this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read “Share your feelings of guilt and shame” in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of injustice.)

INADEQUACY: Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, and often even unlovable. Just as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn’t give them a second thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner, even if they don’t ask. Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They’ll know if you aren’t, and false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more.

REPEATING: Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality. You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story – the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.

IDEALIZING: Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They long to live in the past, before the affair came along and “messed it up.” Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again. Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and, most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.

FRUSTRATION: Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven’t found new ones yet and don’t seem interested in finding any. They feel they’re not coping with grief “right” or they feel they should be healing faster. They don’t understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if they will ever recover and feel better. You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don’t or can’t fully understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they’re doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don’t be surprised if they choose to confide in you over others.

BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal.

WAITING: The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo, they are exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themselves. Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that hold their interest and bring joy back into their life.

EMOTIONS IN CONFLICT: This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD: “One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their danger.” The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer: “On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain.” The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and above all… keep talking.

TRIGGERS: Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever. It feels like they’re caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating.

Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if they will ever again experience life without the anguish. Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails, clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are.

Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you’re sorry you acted so selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse’s waist or shoulder, or simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again.

It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active for their entire life. Don’t ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should be “over it” because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even decades later. They will NEVER be “over it.” They simply learn to deal with it better as they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.

SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS?

Make certain you’ve killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly.

This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER.

GET INTO THERAPY: Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them and have faith in their methodology. Talk about it: If of you are uncomfortable with your therapist at any time, don’t delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counselling sessions. Your therapist will provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where you are now and determine if you’re making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative periods long enough to allow a “moderate-term” review rather than “short-term.” Expect setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.

APOLOGIZE: Actually, that should read: “Apologize, apologize, apologize.” You cannot apologize too often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses develop a finely calibrated “insincerity radar.” A partial or disingenuous apology will feel meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don’t merely say, “I’m sorry.” To a betrayed spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying everything that’s now salient to your partner: “I’m ashamed I cheated on you and I’m so very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me.” As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit.

REALIZE YOUR PARTNER WANTS TO FEEL BETTER: There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It’s agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which worries them even more. Remember that they can’t help it: Just as they didn’t choose for this to happen, they don’t choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse’s case), even if they don’t understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themselves – and they are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work. Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them.

HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING: While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.

You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don’t know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately.

The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.

SPEND LOTS TIME WITH THEM: Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight, the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you feel they’re a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they’ll let you know and you must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but expect them to check up on you. Don’t take offence when this happens. Instead, welcome the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the “Passed the Test” column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being trusted again.

PHYSICAL CONTACT: They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so, don’t be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They’re likely to be low on confidence and may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose moments when they don’t expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don’t be surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners experience what’s called ‘Hysterical Bonding.’ Also be aware that during lovemaking they may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want.

SHARE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT AND SHAME: If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they’ll wonder if you’re truly capable of being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and question if it’s really worth another try with you. But if you’re like most people who have badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express these feelings, but try. You’ll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It’s a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.

LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR CHOICE TO RECOMMIT: You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them ask. Just tell them. If it doesn’t seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and then, you ask yourself, “If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?” (Most of us would answer, “No,” even if we can’t imagine being in that position.) When people give second chances to others, they really want to know that it’s meaningful to, and appreciated by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the opportunity to repair the damage you’ve done and rebuild your marriage. You’ll be surprised how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to re-establish the bond between you.

HERE’S A GREAT TIP: You will find it’s particularly meaningful to them when they’re obviously feeling low, but they’re locked in silence and aren’t expressing it to you. Just imagine… In their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say, “I just want you to know how grateful I am that you’re giving me a second chance. Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I’ve been feeling so ashamed of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I’ll never do anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again.”

These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they’re delivered at such a perfect
moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most
comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these components:

A statement of gratitude.

An expression of your love.

An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.

An admission that you caused their pain.

An expression of your sense of shame.

A promise that it will never happen again

Unfaithful spouses I’ve counselled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best thing they did to lift their partner’s spirits – as well as their own.

SECTION 3 - SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STAGES, AFTER THEY WORK THROUGH ALL THEIR GRIEF, PAIN AND STRESS?

HOPE: They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care
for others.

COMMITMENT: They know they have a choice. Life won’t be the same, but they decide to actively begin building a new life.

SEEKING: They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They
begin exploring new involvements.

PEACE: They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future.

LIFE OPENS UP: Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy.

FORGIVENESS: While the memory will never leave them, the burden they’ve been carrying from your betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to themselves. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always.

Rejoice in your renewed commitment to spend your lives together in happiness. Celebrate it together regularly! _


----------



## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Az, those "what-ifs" are not rpt not inconsequential, and they will nag at you for years if not addressed in full right now. This is essential to a successful R, and if your W cannot accept this then your chances of happiness with her are slim to none. 

Please heed the advice about exposure to OMW as well. This is not for vengeance or payback, but to guarantee that OM stays permanently out of the picture. If after exposure he still rears his ugly head, then you know your M is a lost cause. Either way you clarify an element of uncertainty.


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

:iagree:

Exposing OM to his wife is a basic move. Besides making it more difficult for the OM to ever contact your wife again, it give his wife a chance to protect herself. Do you feel comfortable leaving her in the dark?

Do you have an urge to have a revenge affair?

Has your sex life recovered?


----------



## AZman (Nov 27, 2012)

LongWalk said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Exposing OM to his wife is a basic move. Besides making it more difficult for the OM to ever contact your wife again, it give his wife a chance to protect herself. Do you feel comfortable leaving her in the dark?
> 
> ...


I am thinking about how to deal and work through exposing to the OMW. I need to think on it more but understand what others are saying.

I have no desire for a revenge affair, I like anyone else have had opportunities during my marriage but have never taken them, that hasn't changed for me yet.

Has my sex life recovered? Not sure how to answer that, it had been declining and stressed long before the affair. Have we had sex since D-Day, yes.


----------



## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

AZman said:


> I am thinking about how to deal and work through exposing to the OMW. I need to think on it more but understand what others are saying.
> 
> I have no desire for a revenge affair, I like anyone else have had opportunities during my marriage but have never taken them, that hasn't changed for me yet.
> 
> Has my sex life recovered? Not sure how to answer that, it had been declining and stressed long before the affair. Have we had sex since D-Day, yes.


Maybe it's just me, but I can't even imagine not informing the POS-OM's wife. AZman, you know what it's like being in the dark, not knowing what your wife was doing. It's just not right to keep the information from the OM's wife.


----------



## amr1977 (Mar 2, 2013)

I would strongly suggest that you inform the other man's wife. Forget revenge, just ask yourself what you would want her to do if your situations were reversed.

You have said little about your wife's reaction here other than that both of you are doing MC and IC. Is she fully remorseful? Begging you to stay? Does she claim her affair was just a symptom and not the real problem?

As far as your questions, they will probably always be there unfortunately. And you will probably never get them answered to your satisfaction - even if your wife were to disclose everything, how would you know? That is the catch-22 of not being able to trust your spouse.

Some people claim the images and questions fade with time. Other people in seemingly happy and successful R's suddenly decide they can't deal any more and drop their fWS's.


----------



## lewmin (Nov 5, 2012)

AZMan - you have all the ammunition you need to expose. Others on this board had to wait to first get the proof. You have it..so what is keeping you? Why think about it?

Do not tell your wife you are going to expose so she gives the POSOM a heads-up. Just make sure it does not get intercepted. Best method is always face-to-face if possible. 

And if your wife goes ballistic, it will just show that she is protecting him, not you. Exposing pretty much results in the affair being stopped. Do you know how many people here who did not expose, and regretted it because they later found out that it just went further underground? If there are no consequences, then this is likely to be the case right now.

So...just do it. Good luck.


----------



## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Cubby said:


> Maybe it's just me, but I can't even imagine not informing the POS-OM's wife. AZman, you know what it's like being in the dark, not knowing what your wife was doing. It's just not right to keep the information from the OM's wife.


Not only that, but it should be a requirement for EVERY reconciliation. Exposure to the OMW allows you to have someone on THAT front watching the OM. 

In almost all cases the OM drops his AP like a bad habit to "work on his marriage". It is also a great test of your spouse. There is the "who will she defend question." Many BS's expose and their WS's look to protect or defend their AP. We see it all the time. That tells you everything you need to know. In TRUE R, the WS should be offering to be on the phone with you when you expose to the OMW.


----------



## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

AZman said:


> I am thinking about how to deal and work through exposing to the OMW. I need to think on it more but understand what others are saying.
> 
> *OMW deserves to know what her husband has done. It is not revenge. I would call it common courtesy. Also, do not tell your wife you are exposing OM to OMW. If she finds out, then you will know they are still in contact.*
> 
> ...


----------



## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

If it was me, I would blow the whole thing up. I would inform the OM wife and fill her in on her husbands cheating and being that this is your wife's second time that she stepped out of the marriage, I wouldn't say any more and file for a divorce. 

Once is bad enough but now a second time is inexcusable and it's obvious that she knows that you'll turn the other cheek and she's proved it by having a second affair. Inform her friends and family and put her ass out in the street unless you want to spend the rest of your life always wondering what she's doing, where she's at and who she's with. That my friend is a lousy life. A real lousy life and your the only one who can do something to improve your own life.


----------



## akashNil (May 20, 2012)

AZman,
Sorry for what you are going through. All others have already given their advices. Adding just my 2 cents:
1. You MUST expose the OM to his wife. First, because she has a right to know. Second, YOU will get a HUGE relief after doing that. It is not a revenge, but will act as better than a revenge.
2. Forget about knowing all the facts. You will never know it, as all of us are still searching for it. The urge doesn't diminish, though 
3. You may reconcile, but the damage is already done, and it is permanent. Now you will live with a stranger.

Take care of yourself. This forum has helped me time and again.


----------



## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Another Planet said:


> No offense to you Pheonix


No offense taken AP. Like everyone I suppose, I express my opinions based on my perspective and experiences.


----------



## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

AZman said:


> showing up at his house one morning, ringing the doorbell, handing is wife a print out of the texts and walking away


THAT is a great plan...all the pain your going through now, could be worse for the other mans wife if he does it again and again,,,she deserves to know...would you rather NOT know??
She deserves to know...and the ONLY way to really make sure he is out of the picture is if he has consequences for his actions

think about it...he screwed a married woman, she dumped him...no consequences...whats to stop him from doing to some other family what he did to yours???

Dont look at it as revenge...look at it as making it harder for him to do this again!!


----------



## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

AZman I have nothing of value to add here 

Except

Listen act and do not speak

Expose now


----------



## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Has she written you a timeline of the affair?

Did she use protection? If not, has she been tested for stds?

How would she feel if you had an affair?

She should not be protecting the OM. She should be protecting you. She should help you disclose the affair to the OM"s wife or you file for divorce.

She had an EA and now a PA. What are the consequences?


----------



## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

Tell the OMW but do not tell your wife you are doing this.

If she finds out you know they are still in contact.

It is not revenge to tell OMW but a tool to help your R if you want to.


----------



## AZman (Nov 27, 2012)

I am thinking about OMW contact, just trying to decide how to do it, when. I believe or want to believe there is no contact. She has told me she will let me know if he tries to contact her. I have the ability to monitor things but obviously hiding it once wasn't easy. I guess I am not so wrapped up in the whole "are they still talking if he knows I told her" as she could say "hey, he called me today and said his wife knows, I didn't talk to him but wanted to tell you." So I see no benefit in that regard but I agree and see the benefits of telling the OMW.


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

So tell her

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## davecarter (Aug 15, 2013)

Horizon said:


> Soon after DDay, 8 months ago, I made some loose arse machoesque remark and followed it up with "....that's what and Alpha would do right?". She said - "that's not Alpha that's just some d!ckhead comment....".
> 
> I said "Right, so an Alpha wouldn't do that?". She replied "They just know what to say". Or something like that. More humiliation - but it wasn't me, I set myself up. I was faking it; f**ked up in the head big time at that early stage and in no man's land (deliberate pun).


That's really humiliating...the fact that your wife _knew_.


----------



## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Horizon said:


> She said - "that's not Alpha that's just some d!ckhead comment....".
> 
> I said "Right, so an Alpha wouldn't do that?". She replied "They just know what to say". Or something like that. More humiliation - but it wasn't me, I set myself up. I was faking it; f**ked up in the head big time at that early stage and in no man's land (deliberate pun).


Here's the thing Dawg. An alpha don't say. An alpha does. The fact that you were to debate her and having to fake it pretty much indicates you're no alpha. Nor do you have to be. They just need to know that if they cheat and get caught, they're gone because nobody disrespects you and gets away with it. Most guys here are talking about making up, reconciling, staying for the kids, getting the whole truth, although they have proof, and exposing the other man before she gets her "affair" panties washed and dried.


----------



## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

She cheated twice so IMO you can't believe what she's saying. She can tell you anything and make it sound like the truth but just remember her track record really stinks when it comes to being honest.

Don't rely on her stories. Tell the OM wife and then you will know that she's been informed. If your wife gets pissed, then look the woman straight in the eye and tell her that you trusted her words in the past and it was lies so why should I take your word on anything that comes out of your mouth and then I would let her know that if she has idea of hurling any anger or blame, then look in the mirror because she's the one who caused this mess.


----------



## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

AZman, I am wishing you the best and posting here just to say that these kinds stories give me serious pause. The ones where there is an "emotional affair" discovered and confessed to but then there is also much more. There are several of those stories I have seen recently, several today even. And lots of add ins about the behavioral warning signs and red flags that in retrospect present clearly but in real life and at the time, well . . .. If I follow, I understand your story is a bit different than some of those in that the "emotional affair" she confessed to only a year ago and then went through the remorse song and dance, self flagellation and other theatrics over was with a different guy than the subsequent affair you have learned of. Still, these stories haunt me. I had an emotional affair, I was lonely and weak, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. And yet the truth is much worse. Ugh.


----------



## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"think about it...he screwed a married woman, she dumped him...no consequences...whats to stop him from doing to some other family what he did to yours???"

I'd be willing to bet he eventually comes sniffing around OP's WW again once things calm down if he never faces any consequences for doing so the first time.

OP doesn't even need to worry about a hypothetical future family destroyed by this POS.

He needs to expose to OMW to keep him away from his own family.


----------



## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

davecarter said:


> That's really humiliating...the fact that your wife _knew_.


Meaning he knew what to say to get her to drop her clothes. This is twofold though - it abrogates her own responsibility and blames it all on the POSOM. It was no calculated comment just a statement of truth I realised. 

I have no doubt that despite her responsibility she does genuinely feel duped. I don't buy that but I do get that she has told her self this little lie to justify her actions along with blaming me of course.

There is an iota of truth - he seduced her no doubt (how easy with the drink in) but she went along with it and went back for seconds and thirds.

The fact is she has denied denied denied and barely trickle truthed even after 8 months (yeah I know some people get zero after decades). She refuses to acknowledge what is obvious to me and I have done a f**king sh!t load of reading on TAM, reading elsewhere and talking to people.

That's what is frustrating - but i want our family to work that's why I'm still giving it a shot - at this stage. Things could go either way in 2014.

The worst thing is knowing that they shared something special, that something exists between them that I am not privy to. And, that this POSOM was able to fox in under the radar all while she held the hen house door wide open. That stings.


----------



## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

ThePheonix said:


> Here's the thing Dawg. An alpha don't say. An alpha does. The fact that you were to debate her and having to fake it pretty much indicates you're no alpha. Nor do you have to be. They just need to know that if they cheat and get caught, they're gone because nobody disrespects you and gets away with it. Most guys here are talking about making up, reconciling, staying for the kids, getting the whole truth, although they have proof, and exposing the other man before she gets her "affair" panties washed and dried.


I got to own that pr!ck by the end of week 1 after DDay. Found him and owned while he spilled the beans. Then when the pressure mounted, when I exposed to his wife he took out a failed AVO application.


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

AZman said:


> I am thinking about OMW contact, just trying to decide how to do it, when. I believe or want to believe there is no contact. She has told me she will let me know if he tries to contact her. I have the ability to monitor things but obviously hiding it once wasn't easy. I guess I am not so wrapped up in the whole "are they still talking if he knows I told her" as she could say "hey, he called me today and said his wife knows, I didn't talk to him but wanted to tell you." So I see no benefit in that regard but I agree and see the benefits of telling the OMW.


You need to put a pen Var in her purse and a var in her car. I would bet a lot that she is inn contact with him at work, using landlines, work email etc.


----------



## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

I haven't read every post so sorry if this has alreay been mentioned. Have you asked her to write a detailed timeline of what happened and when? Ask for as much detail as you think you can handle.

And what consequences other than a loss of privacy has she faced? If she slips up, then what?


----------



## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> Here's the thing Dawg. An alpha don't say. An alpha does. The fact that you were to debate her and having to fake it pretty much indicates you're no alpha. Nor do you have to be. _ They just need to know that if they cheat and get caught, they're gone because nobody disrespects you and gets away with it. Most guys here are talking about making up, reconciling, staying for the kids, getting the whole truth, although they have proof, and exposing the other man before she gets her "affair" panties washed and dried._


Sorry, but statistics show here that people think very different if it happens to themselves.

I call this beer table talk. Tough when with the mates. Crying afterwards if you are alone and without a partner.

That is normal I think.

Personally I think you should try to reconcile, and if there are kids even beyond personal interest for their interest.


----------



## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

I would lean to exposing this. Leave your wife in the dark when you do this. Don't tell her.

I would send the OMW the stuff you have and your contact information.


----------



## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

I agree a 100% with Thornburn. Exposure is a must and it does not matter if you are trying to R or D. First the OMW deserves to know, let her make her own choices. Next your wife has to deal with what she has done with her family and friends. For your self they need to know the real story. When Cheaters are first caught they start revisionist history.

Sunlight kills A's they are not nearly as fun and the fog tends to lift faster when the cheaters are now in CYA mode.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

mahike said:


> I agree a 100% with Thornburn. Exposure is a must and it does not matter if you are trying to R or D. First the OMW deserves to know, let her make her own choices. Next your wife has to deal with what she has done with her family and friends. For your self they need to know the real story. When Cheaters are first caught they start revisionist history.
> 
> Sunlight kills A's they are not nearly as fun and the fog tends to lift faster when the cheaters are now in CYA mode.


:iagree:
Plus the possible STD factor. Both you and the omw should be tested.


----------



## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

A couple of thoughts for you.

1. Tell the OMW. My W had an affair over 2 years ago and it took me almost 2 years to finally tell the OMW. Why? Because I was in a false R and I did not have TAM as a resource. For whatever reason I went into the total "it's my fault mode" and became a nice guy that had been growing in me for a long time. I didn't actively seek out what to do in case of an affair. I finally called OMW several months ago and am so glad I did. With that one phone call I took my power back, gave OM consequences, and found out what I need to leave my marriage.

2. You will respect yourself so much more. If you think you know what is going on now you probably know 20% of it. Things come crawling out into the light of day.

3. Remember - this is about her. Her choice. It has nothing to do with you. 50/50 on the marriage, 100% of the affair is on her.

Good luck.


----------



## 10th Engineer Harrison (Dec 11, 2013)

ThePheonix said:


> Here's the thing guys. Women don't have affairs and lose romantic interest in their husbands. They lose romantic interest in their husbands and then have affairs. Most men have a tough time getting their minds around that fact.


That's not a fact.


----------



## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Has she quit her job yet?

What wonderful thing has she done for you?

She did many wonderful things for the OM, and used energy, time and thoughtfulness. 

How would she feel if you had an affair? She would give you the divorce papers and let you open them on Christmas day.

why don't you do the same?


----------



## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

Naa, his wife probably already convinced him of not exposing the true to OMW, you know classic manipulation like "it will just cause problems and he will contact me again" or "I may have problems in my job" etc.

right now she probably is all cotton Candy faking be perfect wife, and according to her there is no need to expose or even talk about the issue, and as he thinks she will not see him again because they are in other state he is happily delusional.

hate when people come here we explained them what "Rug Sweeping" and "Going Underground" terms are and still they go directly towards those paths.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

manticore said:


> Naa, his wife probably already convinced him of not exposing the true to OMW, you know classic manipulation like "it will just cause problems and he will contact me again" or "I may have problems in my job" etc.
> 
> right now she probably is all cotton Candy faking be perfect wife, and according to her there is no need to expose or even talk about the issue, and as he thinks she will not see him again because they are in other state he is happily delusional.
> 
> hate when people come here we explained them what "Rug Sweeping" and "Going Underground" terms are and still they go directly towards those paths.


I really hope you are wrong.
Az I hope you are still reading we know this is tough but exposing will help you.


----------



## AZman (Nov 27, 2012)

No this has not been swept or allowed to go away. I appreciate the insight and feedback. I am not stupid or delusional by any means. My W has an ability to lie and deceive far greater than I ever could have imagined. I have not lost sight of that fact. I question every action and step taken, and look at the motive and reasoning for it. 

IC is helping me tremendously. I am taking steps to help myself, take care of myself and work to assure I am happy. I have not given up hope of R, but am not going to give up my sanity or happiness to get it. 

I feel strangely comfortable where I am right now and with where I am going. I am prepared to move forward with or without her.


----------



## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

AZman said:


> No this has not been swept or allowed to go away. I appreciate the insight and feedback. I am not stupid or delusional by any means. My W has an ability to lie and deceive far greater than I ever could have imagined. I have not lost sight of that fact. I question every action and step taken, and look at the motive and reasoning for it.
> 
> IC is helping me tremendously. I am taking steps to help myself, take care of myself and work to assure I am happy. I have not given up hope of R, but am not going to give up my sanity or happiness to get it.
> 
> *I feel strangely comfortable where I am right now and with where I am going. I am prepared to move forward with or without her.*


^^^^^^^^
THIS IS KEY!

This is why you may just be successful with R with your wife.


----------



## AZman (Nov 27, 2012)

tom67 said:


> :iagree:
> Plus the possible STD factor. Both you and the omw should be tested.


All ready told my wife she HAS to get tested and HAS to show me the results, no exceptions.


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Have you contacted OM's wife?

Key move in the opinion of nearly all.


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

*Re: Re: Wife had a full on PA*



The Middleman said:


> And this is why I tell people not to reconcile. The last time you were here we said that this would happen. You still plan on staying with her?


This is her second affair in less than a year!!! WTF?

Now there's OM#2. Yeah, she did the NC phone call last time too. 

Serial cheater = divorce

Unless you want to wait until there's an OM#3.


----------



## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

AZman said:


> So, just over a month ago now I found out my wife had been having an affair for several months with another guy. She had been friends with the guy, knew him through work though they didn't work together, it escalated from friends and they started having a PA that lasted about 6 months. During that time we moved states, (about 1000 miles away) for her job, but her job still required her to return to that city where they would see each other.
> 
> I caught her as she had an issue with her cell phone, went to using an older one for a bit, and forgot to delete texts off it when the new replacement one came. Otherwise she was totally hiding everything. I knew something was up, but was told all was okay, so I started investigating and thought to check the phone. Never did I think I would find what I did. Obviously reading the texts sucked horribly. As not only was there talk about sex, but also saying "I love you" "I miss you, can't wait to see you" etc.
> 
> ...


Man, this is a tough one. A second affair in less than a year, with the second one being much much deeper, sounds very much like my situation. The first affair was mostly just the result of her feeling starved of affection/attention and the OM was willing to come in and make her feel attractive, desirable, etc. No exchanges of "L" word. The second started not long after she was busted on the first one, and it too went much deeper with exchanges of the "L" word and even early planning stages of "running away together". Both OM were married, neither ever actually intended to give up their marriages for her, especially the first guy. 

Truthfully I think the second affair happened because I went WAY too easy on her after the first. The first was mostly just an EA from what I could tell, there was no "L" word, no discussions of being together long term, it was really just really intense sexual flirting, sexual photo sharing, etc.. I think I just didn't realize that it was a big deal and mostly let it slide, insisting that she have NC with the OM and be willing to show me anything I needed to see. Maybe you were too easy on your wife after the first affair too? I realize it is a delicate balancing act, needing to hold your spouse responsible and make them earn back your trust and affection, while not being too cold/harsh because you do love her and hate to see her suffer as well.

Next, a few questions... Did you ever figure out what the issues were that led her to the first affair? (As I said, for my wife, I know I left her feeling unappreciated, unloved, undesirable or only desirable for sex, which left her vulnerable) Did you and your wife work to resolve those issues, and do you think you were successful? Have you had time to figure out how this second affair was different from the first for her, as far as what causes led to it? Since your wife obviously has said that she wants to be with you and save the marriage, that means she intends to end it with the OM, but how has she responded to the fact that you know that she did profess her love for him repeatedly, that she cared deeply for him, maybe even wanted to leave you for him at some point? Is she saying all of that was a lie?

Thankfully it sounds like the OM doesn't live near you, which is fantastic. With her having made clear that she did have strong feelings for him however, you should realize that NC with him will be much, much tougher for her than it was with the first guy. You've got to remember that for months and months now this OM could fill your wife with happy butterfly feelings at the touch of a button, feelings she could seek out any time she wanted with a quick text, photo or phone call. Anytime she was feeling anything less than happy, she could reach out to him and get a "refill". Losing that all at once can easily lead to depression, because that sort of thing is absolutely addicting. Further, since she says she loved him, she will also miss him as well and will likely think of him and be sad about it almost constantly. Essentially, there will be a grieving period for her.

One thing our marriage counselor told me privately during the early days of our post-affair counseling was that for the vast majority of women, they can only have one man in their heart at a time, that's it. For my wife, during that multi-month period, that man was NOT me. It's something I had to keep in mind a lot those first few months. In her view, she had to give up this man who made her feel all kinds of wonderful anytime she wanted it, to go back to her husband who had left her vulnerable in the first place, only now she has to do so with a cloud of shame and guilt surrounding her... it's a tough thing to do and get through. So the MC wasn't saying that the affair was my fault at all, but he did suggest that I try to be understanding of her predicament as well and not be too hard on her, also suggesting that having a degree of grace for her at her lowest of low moments might help her rediscover her love for me. (He did suggest to me that I consider God's unconditional love as a good example. Not saying that we have to love our spouses unconditionally when they break rules like this, but it's a good model for us to strive for.)


Next, be VERY careful about the painful questions. Seriously. In our MC, he told us to sit down and have a private "open book" talk where she should answer any question I have, no matter how painful it might be. He said it was important that I feel like I have every bit of truth that I want to have and that she accept that hiding anything from me at all is unacceptable. With that said, he warned me fervently to not seek out too many dirty details that would likely only make things more painful for me. Of course, I didn't really listen to that part. [Please forgive the potentially offensive sexual detail following] I asked things like how many times did they have sex? How often? Where? When in our house, where did it happen in each room? Did she perform oral sex for him, and did she swallow? How did she go about sneaking around and avoiding getting caught? When did they get together for sex? Etc.

I know how it feels to be in your situation, and I'll bet money that many or most of those questions have been gnawing at you for a while now. I would echo the advice of my MC and suggest that you really DO NOT want to know the answers to most of those questions. Some of that kind of detail is the stuff that haunts you and makes you see her differently. Here is a quick break down of what I thought were good questions to ask, and bad:

Good:
How often did you see him? - For future reference, I think it was good to know how important it was for her to see him frequently, or not frequently. Helped me gauge how much of a risk there was for her cracking and seeing him again. (Answering "Rarely" suggests a much lower risk in my opinion than "Every day")
What kind of times were you able to get together and how did you avoid getting caught? - This is like asking for the enemies battle plans, it helps you be better prepared in the future. If she mostly snuck away during her lunch break for a quickie, or went to see him each morning after dropping the child off at school or sneaking out in the evening after I've gone to bed early, etc., then I'll have a better idea of when to be more aware of a threat. If she used things like burner cell phones, some obscure online chat service I wasn't aware of, an e-mail account I didn't about, etc., that is all info that will help me be more vigilant in the future.
Do you really love him? Are you 100% confident that you want to work it out with me? - You've got to ask this in that moment of full disclosure. She's in an "honesty" mode hopefully, so she might be real honest if she isn't 100% sure now, or if she really does love him or not. You need to know this stuff.
Did you always use protection? - Important to know in case she could be pregnant, maybe to see how reckless she was, what kind of STD risk there might be, etc. I think for me, knowing that she didn't use protection made it seem like she was more in love with him, more willing to take risks for him, was less respectful of me, etc.

BAD:
When you were intimate, did you [BLANK] with or to each other? (or) What specific sexual things did you do together? - You just dont need to know these details. You don't want the sight of your wife's face to become a trigger for remembering that she happily let OM "finish" on her. Or the dinner table to be a reminder of how she left OM bend her over it several times. Or if they role played or if they recorded themselves or anything else. You just don't want to know that stuff, it'll haunt you and it serves no positive purpose.
Was he better (or bigger?) than me? - Yeah we guys always wonder that, even if it's just regarding your wife's former boyfriend from before you both met. Truthfully, you just don't want to know. If you're thinking that this info might help you to step up your game or maybe learn some new tricks that she likes, she will find other ways to help you in that area without needing to pollute your mind this way. Trust me, if she just loved a new position that the OM introduced to her, she'll find a way to suggest it later in bed without having to share the back-story. If you ask this, you'll just be more stressed, more insecure, maybe struggle to perform under the pressure, etc.

MAYBE worth asking:
What places did you and he usually go together? (for sex or otherwise) - I'd say it could be useful if they, for example, had a favorite bar/restaurant/club/coffee shop where they enjoyed going. Honestly in that event it'd probably be a good idea to not ever go to that place or places with her just to avoid any memories from returning.
Where specifically were you sexual with him? - I can understand why some people would want to know this. If they frequently had sex on your living room couch, that might be a really good reason to throw out the couch and never see it again, no matter how expensive or new/nice it is. That makes sense to me, if you think you might be the type to feel that way. If however that is not your goal, then finding out that they frequently used your couch for that purpose will only turn that couch into a trigger if you don't intend to get rid of whatever furniture/toys/camera/whatever that they used. When my wife moved back in after our three year separation, she very early on specifically asked me if I had ever slept with any girlfriend that I was with in the interim in our bed, stating very clearly and confidently that we would be throwing it out if I had. She wouldn't have been mad at me for it, lord knows she was cheating on me the whole time, but she is just the type that could not knowingly keep anything around the house that I had used sexually with another woman.


Sorry this has gone on so long, I tend to go way overboard and write every word that comes to mind at times. One last thing though:



happyman64 said:


> B. Inform the OMW. Not out of spite but to possibly have an ally that can take the OM out of the picture as best you can. Do not tell your wife you are doing this. This is a test for her to see if her BF contacts her and she tells you.
> 
> It is also a sign of strength that you will show your wife that you are no longer accepting her " Plan B".


I completely agree with happyman's advice here. You should tell OMW, quickly (before any progress is made between you and your wife to the point that it comes across as a revenge tactic) and do not inform anyone else of your intention to do so. If OM contacts your wife to tell her, and she comes to you with that information, that isn't necessarily a bad sign because certainly it is possible that OM was following the NC order until his wife finding out "rocked the boat" and changed the nature of the situation. If he does contact her about it, and she doesn't share that with you (like if you find out later via her cell phone or computer access, etc.) then that will be a big problem. All around, it's just the right thing to do for OMW's sake, for your conscience and it's a great test for her.


----------



## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

AZman said:


> Stuff that in the end doesn't really matter but it is stuff I wonder about. Like when did it actually start? how many times did she see him? *In the end it is irrelevant*, it doesn't change she was unfaithful, it doesn't change she betrayed me, but they stick in my head. I know at my core that the answers to some of these questions won't change a thing in the end except possibly make me angrier and more sad.


Not only is it relevant, for most BS's it's vital to know this - to better understand what they're trying to forgive. You don't mention whether your wife has refused to give you this information; but if she has, she's not truly remorseful, as it shows she's not willing to accept a deserved consequence.

Another consequence I'm sure she'd love to avoid, is you informing the OM's wife. You should do it for that reason and for for all the other reasons the previous posters have stated.

Bottom line, if you know in the back of your mind that your wife hasn't accepted all due consequences, you're likely to have a difficult time reconciling with your doubts about her remorse.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

It is not just about her accepting consequences.

It is the fact as her husband you will show her consequences. You will do it with the hope that she learns from them.

That she becomes a better person that does not lie.
Honors her vows.
Becomes a better wife.
Becomes a better Mother.

But in the end she learns to respect herself more than she did in the past.

Because if she does respect herself or love herself how is she going to love and respect you or your family.


----------



## AZman (Nov 27, 2012)

CDBaker, thanks for your thoughts. I know answers to many of the questions you asked. I know that they met twice for sex before we moved, both times he paid for a hotel. She was able to do it as she told me she had to work late, had meetings etc. Otherwise, it happened when she traveled back to that state for work after we moved out of the State. I know it started about April/May and they last saw each other early Oct. Basically they saw each other May, June, July, August, October. There was no chance to see him daily, no chance for our house or his. Based on knowing her trips and such I can extrapolate from there how many times they "did it" with a rough estimate. But for me the # of times doesn't matter, 1, 5 or 10 times she cheated, period-that will never change. 

They used protection, but I have still said I need to see the results of an STD test. 

Pregnancy is not possible, that is a non-issue. 

Her telling him love, miss you, can't wait to see you, etc., is really tough. That feeds into the trust issue for me. I too have heard the whole 1 person in the heart idea before as well. 

There was no plan to "go away together" on either side. 

I am not really concerned where they went together as we don't live in that state anymore so I don't see potential triggers or worries about being in those places with my wife again. 

We are working to figure out what got us where we are through MC. After the EA there was no lasting change on either side for us, so another EA happened which became a PA. I have identified what my role was in our marriage going down the road it went, and getting as bad as it did.

I cannot say enough how much IC has helped me. Anyone dealing with their spouse cheating, I would say without a doubt IC has helped me more than anything else.


----------



## jnichk76 (Nov 4, 2013)

AZman said:


> CDBaker, thanks for your thoughts. I know answers to many of the questions you asked. I know that they met twice for sex before we moved, both times he paid for a hotel. She was able to do it as she told me she had to work late, had meetings etc. Otherwise, it happened when she traveled back to that state for work after we moved out of the State. I know it started about April/May and they last saw each other early Oct. Basically they saw each other May, June, July, August, October. There was no chance to see him daily, no chance for our house or his. Based on knowing her trips and such I can extrapolate from there how many times they "did it" with a rough estimate. But for me the # of times doesn't matter, 1, 5 or 10 times she cheated, period-that will never change.
> 
> They used protection, but I have still said I need to see the results of an STD test.
> 
> ...


How are you guys doing now?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------

