# ILYBINILWY - Any advice welcome



## Cloudy78 (Feb 9, 2012)

Hi

Me and the wife have been married for over a year and a half but have been together for just over 10 years, I am 34 and she is 31. We also have two sons together aged 6 and 2.
We have always had a good life together, our interests are the same, we rarely have any major arguements and we enjoy being with each other so much.
The weekend before last I was a little tough on her, I was quite short tempered and had a go at her for no particular reason. The arguement got a little heated and she said 'I love you but I'm not in love with you anymore'. At first I was a little shocked but I dismissed it as I thought she didn't quite mean what she had said, but had only said it to hurt me.
We talked that night and she said she had a felt like this for the last few months, she said she felt empty inside towards me, that she felt nothing.
As you can imagine I was completely blindsided by this and really upset.
Up until June last year, my wife worked local and she only worked normal hours, she started a new job in June which was more money, more responsibility and a lot more travelling. 
I must also tell you that our 2nd child is not the easiest, he rarely sleeps the night through and we have to bring him in bed with us to settle.
The has taken it's toll on her, although she loves the job, the travelling and interrupted sleep each night means most of the time she looks drained.
I haven't been the most helpful husband in these times, I relied more on her dealing with the children in the mornings at the weekend, plus we got stuck in a rut of never going out as a couple. I always tell her I love her everyday, that she looks beautiful, I buy her things, I praise her with regards to the new job. 
Our sex life is pretty good, so I can't complain there.
She has always wanted a career and now she has the taste of it she loves it, but it is impacting on her family life. She has spoken to her boss this week and he is going to reduce the travelling time.
Now after she spoke those awful words to me, I told her I would change the ways that irritated her and for the next couple of days I went out of my way to make sure I did everything. The problem with this is that is felt forced and therefore fake, even though I did mean it. The problem is I am having a hard time living and sleeping in a house with a wife who still says she feels nothing for me. I read threads on here from men who find the strength to do this for months, but I just find it too hard to be around her. Last week I asked her to move out and stay with a family member for the weekend. The reason I asked her to move out is that we need to keep our boys lives as stable as possible. It is impossible for her to take one to school and pick him up and the youngest is looked after during the day by my parents. I take them in then morning and pick them up at night, with the long hours of her job and the travelling she couldn't do this.
The next day she text me to say her Nan had talked sense into her and she was coming home, we went out for lunch together and then went home. We had a few glasses of wine at night, talked and had sex, the day was really really good. The next day was difficult for me, I found conversation awkward and struggled to be myself around her. The days that followed were still difficult, I would become anxious at leaving work, knowing that when I got home conversation wouldn't be natural like it used to be, I could feel the pressure on me to make things work, my stress was causing more stress for both of us.
She still feels nothing for me but does not want to give up, she says she wants to try but she doesn't know if she can ever feel that love for me again like she used to. I want to try, I want to be with her, I love her so much, but the anxiety and pressure we both feel when we are together is overwhelming for me.
I asked her again last night to move out, we are going round in circles each night and just stressing each other out. This time we agreed it would be for a much longer period, she didn't want to leave at first, but I said as long as we are under the same roof at the moment, neither person can relax. She has gone staying with a friend, finances will still shared and managed by myself and we have also arranged 'house swaps' so she can be with the boys for a bit at the weekends.
I feel no pressure and anxiety today, I feel better knowing my wife won't be at home when I get there. That's wrong though.
I want my wife back, to love me like she used to, I want my family, but I just don't know what to do at the moment. I have taken a hard step to remove the current stress and anxiety from both our lives but now I need to figure out the next part if I want this marriage to work.

P.S. There is no one else in the equation, no EA or PA. She has sworn on her childrens lives. She is not interested in other men, she spends all her time out of work with me and the children, and her phone and her laptop is always unlocked. I set up her password for her FB account and that remains unchanged (I tested). There is nothing at all suspicious that would point me down this road. When she travels/stays over we're always on the phone together chatting most of the night. She is a good women with good morals.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

well you know how to abbreviate it, so it means you've spent time here reading it and you know what it ALWAYS means.

In the highly unlikely event that she really has simply lost her feelings for you, ask her to leave because you will not spend your life with someone who doesn't respect you like you deserve. Maybe it means manning up, or doing a 180. If you think it can be restored follow up on married man's sex life blog by Atholk and read his book.


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## Shamwow (Aug 15, 2011)

Cloudy78 said:


> There is nothing at all suspicious that would point me down this road. When she travels/stays over we're always on the phone together chatting most of the night. She is a good women with good morals.


I sure hope so. FYI - my xw was fiercely loyal and would never lie to me. Until she started lying to me. Started traveling for work and being around god-knows-who in random cities. There's something about being the hot traveling wife at the hotel bar...it can change people. Of course I trusted her implicitly, as you do your W.

Oh, and my xw and I would talk/text regularly the nights she was out of town too.

There's like a 2% chance she's actually just not feeling it for you anymore (it is indeed possible). Which leaves the more likely scenario that she has seen her options open up and is enjoying the attention. You decide what that means. If she hasn't crossed the line yet, lay your boundaries down NOW. Her coming off the road is a good start.

EDIT: Do you know who she travels with? Other men? Other women? What are they like? One toxic gf on the road can start the ball rolling...


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

I second Athol's book. 

Asking her to move out was a mistake, IMO. You'll only create a bigger distance between yourselves. If she's not feeling it for you in the same house, she won't feel it separately and it will give her more time and opportunity to be with other guys, if she wishes. You said that her work travels probably started her lack of feelings for you. Well, you've just magnified that ten-fold. 

Get her back home, read Athol's book, pray it works out.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

MSP said:


> I second Athol's book.
> 
> Asking her to move out was a mistake, IMO. You'll only create a bigger distance between yourselves. If she's not feeling it for you in the same house, she won't feel it separately and it will give her more time and opportunity to be with other guys, if she wishes. You said that her work travels probably started her lack of feelings for you. Well, you've just magnified that ten-fold.
> 
> Get her back home, read Athol's book, pray it works out.


I agree about the separating part... if she is checked out there is no way that being away from you is going to help you reconnect with her. Also, if she is in an affair it only enables her to do it and keep it hidden easier. When you ask your spouse to leave your home it means they are no longer your marriage partner, it is over. I wouldn't suggest ever asking a spouse to move out unless it was clear they have no willingness to work on the relationship.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

If the core of the problem is her job, then the solution is for her to change it. Not to kick her out of the house.

But you really do have to actively rule out another man being in the picture. Put a voice activated recorder in her car.

My hunch is she met someone at work.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

I am going to be blasted for this but realize that a person with good morals can fall in love with another. i.e. be in an EA.

How does that happen? Naivete. Poor boundaries. It happens. Does not make it or them right. It happens in very subtle ways and it can eat at the primary relationship. Especially IF the OM is a skilled predator. But it can start very innocent as well.

So go ahead and rule out the OM. It is something you can actively do.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

You can't take the pressure? Seriously, grow up. I know that sounds really unsympathetic, b/c it is. But a grown man who sees his wife is worn out and still doesn't take at least one morning on weekends, and who does not travel as much and could probably take both, at least every other weekend? Do you think words matter when your actions clearly say, "My own comfort is more important than all you do for the kids and our family?" 

If she's seeing someone else, that's on her. But if she's been bearing most of the responsibility for the kids WHILE WORKING FULL TIME (even before travel started, if I read your post correctly), you have not done anything to SHOW her that you valued her. Words are cheap; actions speak a lot louder. 

I will freely admit that your post really touched a nerve b/c you sound so much like my ex. And surprisingly, after divorce and 50/50 shared custody, I have a lot LESS responsibility 1/2 the week while my ex is constantly mentioning how hard everything is--2.5 years later. If you think it is "pressure" to have her around under the circumstances, imagine what she lived with while you slept in on weekends and let her deal with the kids for 6 years. 

Honestly, when a spouse is like an extra child, a woman begins to realize that being alone would reduce her responsibilities by one grown child-man, at the very least. Once that thought enters, it's hard to combat unless there is radical change and a full partnership. I don't know if you were any better in other areas of family responsibilities--bill paying, grocery shopping, laundry, housecleaning, etc. I'm guessing you might have been--or maybe she's just willing to give you another chance. If so, step up your game.


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## worrieddad (Nov 3, 2011)

This ilybnilwy stuff is the biggest cop out going Imho. I experienced a variant of it, as do so many others. After quite a bit of angst and much thought on the matter, I have come to the conclusion that the only way to deal with it is to steel yourself against it by thinking and believing that there is just no point being married to a person who can't be bothered with being married to you. 

IMHO, when you have to resort to all kinds of tactics, 180's etc to try to get these flakey people to *maybe* get back with you...well, really, whats the point? They either have to figure it out themselves what they are throwing away, or basically, you are better off without them. Even if they do figure it out eventually....well, at that point it might be too late for them.

Unless you as a person has really done something bad to drive the ilybnilwy spouse away....most of the blame is on them IMO and the only way to move on is to 'dump them right back', so to speak.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

AFAIK, the 180 was never proposed as a way to get your spouse to come back to you. It's a tool to help you to move on post-marriage. Depending on your spouse, it MAY have the affect of making them realize what they'll be giving up, but that's a pleasant side effect, not the reason for doing the 180.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## worrieddad (Nov 3, 2011)

PBear said:


> AFAIK, the 180 was never proposed as a way to get your spouse to come back to you. It's a tool to help you to move on post-marriage. Depending on your spouse, it MAY have the affect of making them realize what they'll be giving up, but that's a pleasant side effect, not the reason for doing the 180.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, thats right. It seems though that it is often misconstrued as a way of getting a spouse back. I'm of the belief that people actually *really* do a 180 properly....they likely won't even want their flakey exs back!


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

worrieddad said:


> Yes, thats right. It seems though that it is often misconstrued as a way of getting a spouse back. I'm of the belief that people actually *really* do a 180 properly....they likely won't even want their flakey exs back!


I agree with you fully! The point is to get you to a place where you're comfortable moving on with or without your spouse. At that point, you can make a much more rational decision about whether you want your STBX in your life.

And I say this as a wayward husband... My wife has pulled an almost perfect 180 on me, and to be honest, all it's done is made my leaving the marriage that much easier. But I truly do hope it makes her transition easier and less painful as well. But it definitely hasn't made me want to go running back.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

PBear said:


> I agree with you fully! The point is to get you to a place where you're comfortable moving on with or without your spouse. At that point, you can make a much more rational decision about whether you want your STBX in your life.
> 
> And I say this as a wayward husband... My wife has pulled an almost perfect 180 on me, and to be honest, all it's done is made my leaving the marriage that much easier. But I truly do hope it makes her transition easier and less painful as well. But it definitely hasn't made me want to go running back.
> 
> ...


PBear, 
That's interesting to hear that the 180 sent you running further away. I don't believe I have done the full 180, but I do look at the list when I am needing strength. I think I can qualify my H as a walkaway... but I am not sure. His behavior has been so strange. Really I think he is in a MLC and that helped him Walkaway... 

Why do you think it helped you make up your mind?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

It didn't push me further away; it just made it less painful for me to stay away and keep my distance. I think I likely would have felt worse about leaving if she was crying on the phone every night. As it is, I've only heard "stories" from family members that she went through some rougher times than I had been led to believe.

I was set on leaving, and I wasn't planning on it being a temporary separation. The 180 helped me keep my resolve. Although, to be honest, the fact that I started seeing someone shortly after separating probably had something to do with that too.

In my opinion, the 180 makes it easier for the other spouse to leave if they're sure in what there doing. But if they're waffling in their decision, the 180 shows them what there missing, and it's possible that's enough to turn them back home.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thurm09 (Feb 11, 2012)

Cloudy78, if you believe your wife is not cheating then don't do anything to compromise that until you think other wise. If you start looking and find nothing you will keep looking and digging. Bring her back in the house. You leave her at a friends she might start going out and that will really screw you up. Remember you are married and marriage is a commitment. 

I wrote my wife this in a letter to my wife I think it may help you (found it on a website). Love is a decision. It reminds couples that as wonderful as the feeling of love is, it is not sufficient for a marriage. At some point (actually many points) husband and wife need to decide to love - even when they don't feel like it. Acting on this decision by doing loving things for your spouse, speaking kindly and respectfully, and deciding over and over to pay attention to the relationship makes love rekindle.


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## Cloudy78 (Feb 9, 2012)

Hi guys

Thanks to everyone for their advice and opinions so far. 
Update on the situation - 

My wife is still currently staying at her friends and I am at home with the kids.
We agreed that she could have the house on Friday night/Saturday with the the kids and I would have it Saturday night/Sunday day.
I stayed with my brother on the Friday night, we chatted a lot as he has been through this. His girlfriend of 5 years gave him the same speech, after 3 months of trying he had had enough and told her to move out and back in with her parents, that was 3 years ago. 
She has regretted it since and twice asked for another chance, but he tells her he is happy now and doesn't need any additional stress in his life. He says he gets lonely sometimes but weighs this up against the emotional turmoil he went through with her, he has peace in his life at the moment and he is in a good place, although he does miss his daughter when he's not with her.
Speaking to people who are going through this/been through this is certainly cathartic.
I saw her on the Saturday evening for about half an hour whilst she got her things together before heading back to her friends, we had a coffee and a quick catch up. I told her I was taking the kids swimming Sunday afternoon so she wanted to come. 
Swimming was fine but afterwards the conversation and mood deteriorated between us. She dropped me off at home and she took the kids to her Nans house for the afternoon. My mood sank so low that afternoon and I curled up and went to sleep for a while.
When she returned home I invited her in for a coffee and we both agreed that spending time together today was the wrong thing to do, it put too much pressure on us to act all 'happy families'. We had a nice chat about work, the kids, general things and we also commented that it was nice to talk to each other about other stuff, with no talk of our marriage in the conversation the mood was much better. 
That was Sunday evening, I have not spoken to her since, I haven't texted her. The next time I will speak/see her will be tomorrow evening when we 'house swap' for the night.
She is taking the kids away to her sisters this weekend so I will have the house to myself, that scares me a little, I don't like an empty house, my house has always been full of noise and laughter, so I've asked my brother to stay with me for one night.
It's strange really, my emotions change so frequently with regards to the whole situation, sometimes I become so depressed with it all (mornings are definitely the hardest), then sometimes so positive and then sometimes I get angry at her. Sometimes I say to myself that if she isn't in love with me, why should I fight for her? Why bother? I deserve better. 
Yes, there were times I could have helped more, but I don’t go out drinking with my friends much, I don’t cheat, I buy her things, always tell her I love her and appreciate it her. I get the kids ready in the morning, I make their lunches, I pick them up. I'm a good father and a good husband, but my my own admission I could have helped more on the weekend mornings and don't I regret this now!
She has faults too, things that drive me crazy sometimes but I don't just fall out of love with her.
She seems like another person soemtimes, not the one I know and love, not the woman I married. She seems cold and emotionless sometimes, a stranger who just looks like my wife. 
I miss my best friend.
I have taken into consideration some of your views regarding another man but at this stage I have to rule it out. I have access to her social networking accounts, her personal emails, her contacts list on her phone, her phone records and her location during the day. I have checked it all out and continue to check it out but there there is nothing.
In her own words on Sunday, she said that the during the last argument we had, something snapped inside her and now she feels nothing for me. Whether time apart will heal whatever has snapped I do not know, but I do know that living under the same roof was definitely not going to work for both of us, we would have definitely started to hate each other.


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## Needin_help (Feb 11, 2012)

Cloudy78 said:


> She seems like another person soemtimes, not the one I know and love, not the woman I married. She seems cold and emotionless sometimes, a stranger who just looks like my wife.
> I miss my best friend.


100% my friend. I know exactly what you mean. I didn't really see the signs coming from my wife, probably because we were already so far apart, but now that I look back and look at the way she is acting now... she's not the person I fell in love with and married.


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

Needin_help said:


> 100% my friend. I know exactly what you mean. I didn't really see the signs coming from my wife, probably because we were already so far apart, but now that I look back and look at the way she is acting now... she's not the person I fell in love with and married.


I don't think any of us (if we have been married for years) are the same person our spouses fell in love with. I know I have changed in 3 decades! Heck, I have changed in 3 months! 

Cloudy78 also said:
_She seems cold and emotionless sometimes, a stranger who just looks like my wife.
I miss my best friend._


I bet my H would say the same exact thing and I could about him as well (in the last 3 months). Honestly, I agreed that I was becoming very critical/coldish... but I had my reasons for some of it. He wasn't listening to my needs and I wasn't listening to the warning signs either. I wish I would have been more focused on the man I love and less on myself, work, and my kids


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## Needin_help (Feb 11, 2012)

Mamatomany said:


> I don't think any of us (if we have been married for years) are the same person our spouses fell in love with. I know I have changed in 3 decades! Heck, I have changed in 3 months!


Well, obviously people change, but they don't turn from a loving, caring, fun-driven wife into a cold, uncaring, nonchalant person normally.


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

Needin_help said:


> Well, obviously people change, but they don't turn from a loving, caring, fun-driven wife into a cold, uncaring, nonchalant person normally.


1) I totally agree... she is in there somewhere! The change is too drastic. Professionals say they don't change that quick/drastic. So either one of our judgements were wrong which is it first or present?


2) Again I think my H would say I have. I think it's his perspective of me at this moment in time... and a lot of re-writing history. He has a lot of contempt/resentment toward me right now. I think I have Right now I don't think that highly of him either. He is purposely being mean, hurtful, spiteful, and has chosen to walk away w/o trying. I know I could change my mind and take all this back and say he has turned into the warm, gentle, caring man, great lover with deep morals/values if he were to go to therapy or seek help from somewhere and worked on saving this family from collapse but he is choosing a cowardly way out. In his eyes that would make him weak.


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## Cloudy78 (Feb 9, 2012)

Hi guys

Well, i just found out. My wife has been sleeping with another man.

I am devastated. I am in shock.

I had a thought tonight when I got in. As i was unable to ever check her iPhone, i decided to erase mine and restore it from her last backup, which luckily was tonight. Once the phone booted back up it was pretty much a clone of hers, I had all her text messages.

All I can say is the ones between her and the OM were so vulgar and heartbreaking to read. To read what they had been doing together and the language they used, it is soul destroying.

I rang her and told her I knew, she denied it at first but when I told her I had all her text messages she was shocked. I told her to come home and tell me everything to my face.

She has left now and I am here to pick up the pieces.
How could she ever do this me? or our family?

Wow, I just don't know what to say....


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## canguy66 (Dec 18, 2011)

First off, I am so sorry to hear that. My wife left but to my knowledge there was no one else, and I can just imagine your pain.

What you need to do now is implement the 180 Rules

These are meant to protect yourself emotionally, and in rare cases can bring the wayward spouse back (no guarantees of course).

Is your wife open to MC? Are you seeing an IC (if not, you need to).

Best wishes.


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## Shamwow (Aug 15, 2011)

Ugh. So sorry man.

I know that feeling.

Dump her. It's not worth it to try to understand why, just do it and move on with your life. It's not easy, but you will feel stronger for respecting yourself.

She must feel the consequences of her actions or nothing means anything.

You can and will still feel for her, but trust yourself and move forward. You'll thank yourself in the weeks/months ahead.

Again, so sorry it turned out this way.


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## cabbage65 (Feb 14, 2012)

"I know I could change my mind and take all this back and say he has turned into the warm, gentle, caring man, great lover with deep morals/values if he were to go to therapy or seek help from somewhere and worked on saving this family from collapse but he is choosing a cowardly way out. In his eyes that would make him weak."

Mama I could've written this myself...sadly it's very weak what they're doing.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Start divorce proceedings if you have not already done so and ask for sole custody of the kids. Hit her hard with sanctions and don't play nice. Have her served at her workplace in front of everyone and make sure her family and friends lnow what she is doing. If the other man has a wife find out who she is and tell her about the affair.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dymo (Jan 2, 2012)

Have a look at the CWI newbies thread.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html


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## 67flh (Sep 26, 2011)

only way to handle this is hit her hard,no more mr.nice guy..no blame shifting...embaress her to all her friends and family.


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