# Just found out husband concealed extent of relationship with female colleague/friend several years ago.



## MissyP (Jun 16, 2021)

Ten years ago my husband did an internship in a different city to me, and had to live and work with a female fellow intern. When I visited him I was concerned about some of her behavior towards him. 

She made a show of the groceries she had just bought for them to share and cook with together ("oh look what I got for US"). She suggested he join her and one of their superiors for a fun dinner out that night - right in front of me, and made it clear I was not invited. When we arrived at a group function at the same time she immediately turned and handed him her car keys to hold for her in his pocket as though she did it all the time. 

I trusted that if she was a problem, he would take any action required to maintain an appropriate relationship with her. And because he was so busy with the internship it wasn't as though there were all sorts of opportunities for them to interact beyond work. He rarely mentioned her. Of course I assumed that living and working together would mean they were friendly on some level. 

When he was leaving the internship she wanted a photo of them in front of the buisness sign, which I offered to take. It was very awkward with them not wanting to stand too close or touch each other, until I eventually laughed and encouraged them to do a normal pose. I felt bad that they hadn't gotten to know each other well enough to be more comfortable around each other. 

I also felt sad that they hadn't become good enough friends for him to visit with her when he visited his family in that same city. 

Except it turns out they were good friends. They went runnig together almost every day. They went out for dinners and lunches and coffees. She joined him for dinner at his Dad's house. When he visited his family, he also saw her for coffee or dinner or something, despite telling me he wasn't going to. They texted. A lot. 

I am not a jealous person, and I am fine with opposite sex friends. But I am now feeling hurt and betrayed that he concealed all this from me. I would have wanted to discuss this, if I had know about it so that we could discuss some boundaries to protect our relationship. I likely would have simply asked that he tell me about any time he spent with her - as he would do with a male friend. I may have also asked that he not spend all that time alone with her. 

I feel as though he thought I wouldn't be okay with their friendship, but instead of being honest with me so that we could discuss any necessary steps to take to protect our marriage, he concealed their relationship. The lack of respect is killing me and I just don't know what to do. 
Advice? Do I leave it be and move on, or discuss this with him? It may have been 10 years ago for him, but since I just found out it's very immediate for me.
Help! Not sure I can stay with someone who would be so disrespectful to our relationship. And of course now I will wonder if he is hiding other relationships with women. Help!!


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## coquille (May 8, 2018)

MissyP said:


> Ten years ago my husband did an internship in a different city to me, and had to live and work with a female fellow intern. When I visited him I was concerned about some of her behavior towards him.
> 
> She made a show of the groceries she had just bought for them to share and cook with together ("oh look what I got for US"). She suggested he join her and one of their superiors for a fun dinner out that night - right in front of me, and made it clear I was not invited. When we arrived at a group function at the same time she immediately turned and handed him her car keys to hold for her in his pocket as though she did it all the time.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry your husband lied to you and breached your trust in him. You have every right to be upset and hurt. You also have every right to suspect his faithfulness to you, be it with this woman or with others that you might have never met. Your husband lied to you by concealing all the details of this "friendship" simply because it's not a platonic friendship. 

How have these ten years been with him? Do you have children together? How did you discover the real nature of their relationship? 

It sounds like he at least emotionally cheated on you with this woman. Otherwise, why would he hide it from you, especially that you are not a jealous person by nature?

Before you bring it up, and now that you have suspicions that he might have not been faithful to you, whether with this woman or with others during these ten years, it is better to look for anything suspicious that might indicate that he has been sustaining affairs: look at the phone bill, look at texts, emails, credit card statements. Regardless of what you find, you will eventually need to know why he lied to you about his relationship to this woman.

Is she married now? Do you know anything about her? Are they friends on social media? You mention that she is in the same city as his father. How often does he visit his father? I would also look at his social media friends and messaging services. He might be in touch through them. Good luck!


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Don't know what to tell you Missy. Half or more of the female friends I had I ended up sleeping with. If his behavior toward this chick is anything like you perceive, my guess is they had a friends with benefits thing going on; but that's just my guess. Ten years is a long time ago. Why is it haunting you now? You can set him up for a polygraph. Men recommend it for possible unfaithful wives on a routine basis.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Do you have kids together?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Whose totally crazy and completely mad idea was it to have a married person live alone with someone of the opposite sex?? Talk about asking for trouble.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Yeah. Why did they HAVE to live together? I can't believe many institutions would make a single woman live with a man, married or not.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> Whose totally crazy and completely mad idea was it to have a married person live alone with someone of the opposite sex?? Talk about asking for trouble.


I was thinking the same thing. In what professional environment would a company have interns of opposite sexes living together. That is complete nonsense.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

MissyP said:


> Ten years ago my husband did an internship in a different city to me, and had to live and work with a female fellow intern. When I visited him I was concerned about some of her behavior towards him.
> 
> She made a show of the groceries she had just bought for them to share and cook with together ("oh look what I got for US"). She suggested he join her and one of their superiors for a fun dinner out that night - right in front of me, and made it clear I was not invited. When we arrived at a group function at the same time she immediately turned and handed him her car keys to hold for her in his pocket as though she did it all the time.
> 
> ...


How did you find out the real details?

It all sounds very shady to me. They were actually close friends doing stuff together daily and playing house together. Then they are embarrassed to get close for a picture when the wife is around. They didn't seem to be embarrassed to be near each other when you weren't around. Makes me wonder if they felt guilty. Obviously no guarantee the had sex, but its hard not to think that. What has your husband had to say about all of this?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I found it hard to believe he couldn't have told the school or employer he wanted to pay to live elsewhere (not with a woman).

I can't think of any couple that would have gone along with that situation.


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## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

I sense that you still have not found out the full extent. It's called trickle truth. Keep asking questions. Or, better yet, find more info then ask.

I'm sorry this happened.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

How long have you been married? I’m yet to hear of a company that would allow that!?

Is it possible YOU were the OW as far as she was concerned? Did he actually refer to you as his wife? Just thinking aloud, it sounds so strange! To have a whole living thing happening, acting like a couple and her behaviour towards you?

God knows what he was telling her if this is the story that you’re telling us! Sorry for you, what a shock!


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

I think you have about 2% of the whole story.


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## Harold Demure (Oct 21, 2020)

I think the question of whether they had sex is almost irrelevant because I think the relationship the two had was a betrayal by your husband anyway. What we are looking at is the degree of the betrayal.

She was hip slapping you when you visited, asserting herself as the dominant female and your husband appears to have done nothing to stop her or let her know where his priorities lay.

From your post, he appears to have deliberately downplayed the extent of the relationship and has lied to you.

I am sorry to say this but, from their reaction when that photo was taken, I would suspect they slept together.

How did you find out? I think this is important. Has the other woman talked about her relationship with your husband? Is his father still around, if so, can you talk to him about their perceived relationship when visiting together?

I suppose the big question here is what are you prepared/able to live with in your marriage? Let’s say there was nothing further in it. He still lied to you, intended to deliberately deceive! Can you have that level of trust with him ever again and is this going to eat away at you?

I really think you need to take some time to look at this and what you want to know/do because, to me, THIS IS VERY SERIOUS. If you confront him now, you are not going to get anywhere near the truth. He is going to flip it onto you and your “stupid” insecurities over something that happened 10 years ago. 

For me, trust issues would be pretty huge right now. There may never have been any other women, but he has proved over the last 10 years that he is willing and capable of hiding a relationship from you.

If you are going to confront him, I would suggest you prepare for it as if it were a job interview or something similar. I THINK THE WORSE THING YOU CAN DO IS BLURT SOMETHING OUT where he can rug sweep and make you out to be the bad guy. Write down the questions that you want to ask him, write down what you want to tell him about your feelings/ how this has affected you and your marriage, write down what he has to do in the immediate here and now (full access to his phone, e mail and social media would be a minimum here for me, plus access to his bank accounts if you keep separate ones). I would then suggest an almost formal meeting where you say you have something you need to talk about, agree a time and place but let him sweat about the subject.

I am not sure you are going to get anything like the truth but he needs to have the seriousness of this driven home to him. At the end of any discussion, I would most certainly not give him any reassurance. You will need to take time out to evaluate his responses, his reactions and what you want to do.

I am very sorry if this comes across as overly dramatic but your husband has shown he is not the man you thought he was when you married him and your marriage as you know it is in jeopardy.

You may decide not to pursue this or that you can live with what he did but your marriage isn’t going to be the same.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

where is your relationship today , why is this coming up just now ,


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## Jamieboy (Jan 14, 2021)

Get used to it, get even, or get out. Three options, all with negative consequences. However you have to pick one, because you clearly have an issue with what you have discovered. 

Without knowing anything about you we can't make judgements based on what might be the best decision for you.

Good luck, sorry you're in this situation


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## Willnotbill (May 13, 2021)

I don't think many people of the opposite sex can have a close friendship without things crossing the line or at least thinking about it. Mike Pence took a little flack when he revealed he would not be alone with another woman. I think he was right in doing that and respectful to his wife. (Edit: I mention Pence as an example. This post has nothing to do with politics!)


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Willnotbill said:


> I don't think many people of the opposite sex can have a close friendship without things crossing the line or at least thinking about it. Mike Pence took a little flack when he revealed he would not be alone with another woman. I think he was right in doing that and respectful to his wife. (Edit: I mention Pence as an example. This post has nothing to do with politics!)


I respect people who do that. Billy Graham was the same. I think it's very wise to have sensible boundaries with the opposite sex.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Willnotbill said:


> I don't think many people of the opposite sex can have a close friendship without things crossing the line or at least thinking about it. Mike Pence took a little flack when he revealed he would not be alone with another woman. I think he was right in doing that and respectful to his wife. (Edit: I mention Pence as an example. This post has nothing to do with politics!)


I have a very devout Christian friend that is the same way. He considers it his duty to not be alone with another women or seen in any situation that could be misconstrued as an inappropriate relationship.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I have a very devout Christian friend that is the same way. He considers it his duty to not be alone with another women or seen in any situation that could be misconstrued as an inappropriate relationship.


Good for him.


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## Spoons027 (Jun 19, 2017)

MissyP said:


> Ten years ago my husband did an internship in a different city to me, and had to live and work with a female fellow intern. When I visited him I was concerned about some of her behavior towards him.
> 
> She made a show of the groceries she had just bought for them to share and cook with together ("oh look what I got for US"). She suggested he join her and one of their superiors for a fun dinner out that night - right in front of me, and made it clear I was not invited. When we arrived at a group function at the same time she immediately turned and handed him her car keys to hold for her in his pocket as though she did it all the time.
> 
> ...


Jfc, the sheer audacity of this woman and the fact that your husband did nothing to stop it? The utter disrespect is pretty f-ing appalling.

Personally, I say gather more evidence before confronting. Otherwise, he might turn it around on you, downplay it, and maybe even minimize it.

Good luck, OP. With whatever you decide.


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## MissyP (Jun 16, 2021)

coquille said:


> I'm sorry your husband lied to you and breached your trust in him. You have every right to be upset and hurt. You also have every right to suspect his faithfulness to you, be it with this woman or with others that you might have never met. Your husband lied to you by concealing all the details of this "friendship" simply because it's not a platonic friendship.
> 
> How have these ten years been with him? Do you have children together? How did you discover the real nature of their relationship?
> 
> ...


Thanks for the great response. Last 10 years have been good, although I am now doubting and overanalyzing all of it. No kids. Found out when a friend of mine was at the facility and mentioned she knew me and thus him.....a staff member expressed her surprise that we were still together after what she had witnessed. My friend knew I wouldn't have stayed with him if I had known so she told me. I checked his phone and saw messages from quite a while back arranging dinner and "coffee" when he was visiting his dad. She is no longer in that city, in fact she is in a different country.


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## MissyP (Jun 16, 2021)

Spoons027 said:


> Jfc, the sheer audacity of this woman and the fact that your husband did nothing to stop it? The utter disrespect is pretty f-ing appalling.
> 
> Personally, I say gather more evidence before confronting. Otherwise, he might turn it around on you, downplay it, and maybe even minimize it.
> 
> Good luck, OP. With whatever you decide.





BigDaddyNY said:


> How did you find out the real details?
> 
> It all sounds very shady to me. They were actually close friends doing stuff together daily and playing house together. Then they are embarrassed to get close for a picture when the wife is around. They didn't seem to be embarrassed to be near each other when you weren't around. Makes me wonder if they felt guilty. Obviously no guarantee the had sex, but its hard not to think that. What has your husband had to say about all of this?


A friend of mine was at the facility and was chatting with staff who commented that they were surprised we were still together, and explained why. My friend told me and I checked his phone. 
He doesn't know that I know yet.


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## MissyP (Jun 16, 2021)

Harold Demure said:


> I think the question of whether they had sex is almost irrelevant because I think the relationship the two had was a betrayal by your husband anyway. What we are looking at is the degree of the betrayal.
> 
> She was hip slapping you when you visited, asserting herself as the dominant female and your husband appears to have done nothing to stop her or let her know where his priorities lay.
> 
> ...


You really nailed my dilemma - even if there was nothing more to it, he decieved me and I'm not sure I can, or that I want, to be in that kind of marriage. Trust is huge for me. And you are completely right that my marriage is not ever going to be the same. Your comment was REALLY helpful, thanks.


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## MissyP (Jun 16, 2021)

Spoons027 said:


> Jfc, the sheer audacity of this woman and the fact that your husband did nothing to stop it? The utter disrespect is pretty f-ing appalling.
> 
> Personally, I say gather more evidence before confronting. Otherwise, he might turn it around on you, downplay it, and maybe even minimize it.
> 
> Good luck, OP. With whatever you decide.


Right? Disrespect beyond anything I've ever experienced. I'm more troubled by that than the lies.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

I seriously doubt it was just a platonic friendship. A friend wouldn't expect a guy to hold her keys for her and to do so in front of his wife was her staking her claim. You missed a giant red flag.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Blondilocks said:


> I seriously doubt it was just a platonic friendship. A friend wouldn't expect a guy to hold her keys for her and to do so in front of his wife was her staking her claim. You missed a giant red flag.


I hate to say it, but I agree. The way they were acting says it all. She was asserting her dominance playing lady of the hourse and he was playing scared because he had both of his women together at the same time. 

I still can't get over the fact that this company had interns of the opposite sex shacking up with each other, and sounds like there was no choice, I mean WTF? Maybe I missed it, but were you married or dating at the time? If you were married I can't imagine how you would have agreed to this. I mean, were there really only 2 interns. He couldn't have live with another male intern?


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## coquille (May 8, 2018)

MissyP said:


> Thanks for the great response. Last 10 years have been good, although I am now doubting and overanalyzing all of it. No kids. Found out when a friend of mine was at the facility and mentioned she knew me and thus him.....a staff member expressed her surprise that we were still together after what she had witnessed. My friend knew I wouldn't have stayed with him if I had known so she told me. I checked his phone and saw messages from quite a while back arranging dinner and "coffee" when he was visiting his dad. She is no longer in that city, in fact she is in a different country.


...which means they stayed in touch after that life together as interns, and it sounds like he didn't share with you their meetings during his visits to his father. Yes, you are completely right not to trust him again. He is capable of carrying on a relationship with another woman and keeping it secret from you. You cannot unlearn what you learned about the true nature of this relationship. Once you have enough evidence of their encounters throughout the years, then you can confront him about it and see his reaction. Keep gathering evidence. 
He breached your trust and it is very hard to look at him the same way again. Sorry he betrayed you. It is not a dignified way to treat a spouse.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Can you tell us why he lived with her? It's hard to believe an entity FORCED a married man to live with a single woman. And why didn't he decide to explore other housing options or demand a male roommate?


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## MissyP (Jun 16, 2021)

Livvie said:


> Can you tell us why he lived with her? It's hard to believe an entity FORCED a married man to live with a single woman. And why didn't he decide to explore other housing options or t





Livvie said:


> Can you tell us why he lived with her? It's hard to believe an entity FORCED a married man to live with a single woman. And why didn't he decide to explore other housing options or demand a male roommate?


Was trying to avoid identifying myself to anyone I may know that may see the post..... 
It was at a large animal vet hospital where interns are required to be on call every other night, and be available to pitch in even on the night they aren't on call, if it gets too busy. Also they are required to provide overnight treatments to their cases even on unscheduled nights. Would be impossible to do this off site, and this is common practice in the industry. Frequently a married person will need to share accomodation with a single person.


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## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

Livvie said:


> Can you tell us why he lived with her? It's hard to believe an entity FORCED a married man to live with a single woman. And why didn't he decide to explore other housing options or demand a male roommate?


Right? Having a hard time believing his story. He may very well have asked to be placed with her. Sounds like he was just carrying on a double life. The fact that OW visited his dad for dinner and all that, makes me think they weren't just room mates or pals.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

MissyP said:


> Was trying to avoid identifying myself to anyone I may know that may see the post.....
> It was at a large animal vet hospital where interns are required to be on call every other night, and be available to pitch in even on the night they aren't on call, if it gets too busy. Also they are required to provide overnight treatments to their cases even on unscheduled nights. Would be impossible to do this off site, and this is common practice in the industry. Frequently a married person will need to share accomodation with a single person.


I know this doesn't solve your problem now, but I would have looked elsewhere for an internship where I would have to live with a single woman. 

How long were you married at the time?


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## Harold Demure (Oct 21, 2020)

Hi. How are you doing? I assume You have got a lot of anger going on at the moment, I know I would have.

Have you had time to start figuring out what you are going to do?

Decisions are often a lot simpler where a partner has had a physical or emotional affair. Lines are crossed, divorce often follows.

What happens if he admits that, from the outside, their relationship appears highly inappropriate but that they were just very close work colleagues with a special relationship forged in difficult, high pressured work areas? What if he admits his hiding things from you was wrong but that he didn’t want to hurt you?

What are you going to say if he points out how good your marriage has been until recently and that he has had no contact with her for years, indeed she lives in a different country?

If I was him, the above is exactly what I would be saying to you if you confronted me because I would know you haven’t got anything to go by except comments from an outside observer who “obviously misconstrued what they thought they saw”.

The friend of a friend says she was surprised you are still together after what she saw. Can you get more details of what it was she actually did see?

I am sorry that you find yourself in this predicament because I don’t think you will ever know to your own satisfaction what happened. Your husband has brought this on himself through his deception and I think you have a long, difficult road ahead of you. 

Now is obviously not the time to be making decisions when feelings are running high and I don’t think you should automatically go to separation or divorce. I would say your old marriage is dead and he should most certainly acknowledge this. You may choose the 180 route in the immediate short term. However, I do think you need to take time out to decide what you can live with and whether you should stay or go.

it is possible to start a new marriage with very clearly defined boundaries and with him doing all of the work to make this possible. 

Best of luck and please use the support that we may be able to give you on here.


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## Chaotic (Jul 6, 2013)

MissyP said:


> Was trying to avoid identifying myself to anyone I may know that may see the post.....
> It was at a large animal vet hospital where interns are required to be on call every other night, and be available to pitch in even on the night they aren't on call, if it gets too busy. Also they are required to provide overnight treatments to their cases even on unscheduled nights. Would be impossible to do this off site, and this is common practice in the industry. Frequently a married person will need to share accomodation with a single person.


I work in an adjacent field (I know a LOT of veterinarians) and this sounds pretty typical. Not a good plan or a healthy set-up, by any means, but typical.

Have you told your H what you know? I think at the very least this demands discussion. Marital counseling isn't a bad idea. The breach of trust is scary and should not be swept under the rug. As lots of other people have said, I'd be worried about what else he's done over the years and not told you about.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Since this happened so long ago, evidence gathering will be difficult.

I think you need to play this with a bit of bluffing. Just tell him you have come across information about the extents of their relationship and he needs to come clean to have a chance at moving forward.

Maybe threaten poly after.

He will likely downplay and lie, but you have to at least try to get it out of him.


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## MissyP (Jun 16, 2021)

re16 said:


> Do you have kids together?


Nope!


theloveofmylife said:


> Right? Having a hard time believing his story. He may very well have asked to be placed with her. Sounds like he was just carrying on a double life. The fact that OW visited his dad for dinner and all that, makes me think they weren't just room mates or pals.


Sex explanation


BigDaddyNY said:


> I know this doesn't solve your problem now, but I would have looked elsewhere for an internship where I would have to live with a single woman.
> 
> How long were you married at the time?


7 years at the time. Top internships are highly competitive, you don't turn them down and look elsewhere. Our relationship was strong and trusting, and I wouldn't have wanted him to decline it.


Chaotic said:


> I work in an adjacent field (I know a LOT of veterinarians) and this sounds pretty typical. Not a good plan or a healthy set-up, by any means, but typical.
> 
> Have you told your H what you know? I think at the very least this demands discussion. Marital counseling isn't a bad idea. The breach of trust is scary and should not be swept under the rug. As lots of other people have said, I'd be worried about what else he's done over the years and not told you about.


Thanks for confirming that the work/life situation is typical for vets. It's pretty normal to me, so I wasn't expecting people to question that, but obviously I understand why they have.
I haven't said anything to him about this yet. I guess I need a bit of time to decide how I want to handle this before I do anything.


re16 said:


> Since this happened so long ago, evidence gathering will be difficult.
> 
> I think you need to play this with a bit of bluffing. Just tell him you have come across information about the extents of their relationship and he needs to come clean to have a chance at moving forward.
> 
> ...


I have all the evidence I need. After her behavior towards me, he was worried I'd be unhappy knowing how close they were, so he continued as they had been and hid it from me rather than respecting our relationship and discussing with me ways to protect our relationship. I have all of his texts making arrangements to meet with her, without my knowledge. I don't need to know if there was more. For me there is no question anymore that this is betrayal, so the question is what do I do next.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

MissyP said:


> I have all the evidence I need. After her behavior towards me, he was worried I'd be unhappy knowing how close they were, so he continued as they had been and hid it from me rather than respecting our relationship and discussing with me ways to protect our relationship. I have all of his texts making arrangements to meet with her, without my knowledge. I don't need to know if there was more. For me there is no question anymore that this is betrayal, so the question is what do I do next.


Trust is forever damaged. I think a confrontation is now in order to see how he responds. You want to ask questions that you already know answers to and see how he responds.

Lying 10 years ago was one thing, but lying about it right now is...well.... right now. Without kids, I would be thinking might be time to call it.

He will likely try to gaslight and minimize, so be prepared.


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## Harold Demure (Oct 21, 2020)

If you want to divorce, do you have to confront him at all? Can you just present him with the package of evidence you have and tell him you want to divorce with no further discussion on the matter. - no denials, no rug sweeping, no switching it back on you and your “paranoia”, no trickle truthing to deal with.

Why put yourself through unnecessary upset, just walk away and let him do all emotional stuff? Obviously you will have a whole range of emotions to deal with but dealing all his c*#p won’t be one of them.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

How has your marriage been before the discovery? Did he in any way show remorse (given it was secret)?

So sorry you’re dealing with this, do you know the woman well who told she she was surprised you were still together?

What’s her role in this?


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

MissyP said:


> 7 years at the time. Top internships are highly competitive, you don't turn them down and look elsewhere. Our relationship was strong and trusting, and I wouldn't have wanted him to decline it.
> 
> 
> I have all the evidence I need. After her behavior towards me, he was worried I'd be unhappy knowing how close they were, so he continued as they had been and hid it from me rather than respecting our relationship and discussing with me ways to protect our relationship. I have all of his texts making arrangements to meet with her, without my knowledge. I don't need to know if there was more. For me there is no question anymore that this is betrayal, so the question is what do I do next.


That makes a little more sense now. I was thinking from the point of view of interns in the tech industry, that I deal with. And I can understand why you wouldn't want to turn down a highly sought after internship.

I was also expecting you to say that you were close to being newlyweds. Not that it would make it any better, but I thought maybe you weren't that deep into the marriage/relationship. 7 years is quite a bit of time to know each other and develop trust.

And am I understanding correctly that he also met up with her since the internship and he hid that too?

It is really hard to believe that nothing sexual went on. Why else would he be hiding so much. Have you confronted him head on about all of this? I'm really not sure what to do. Even though there isn't a true smoking gun for a physical affair there is obviously an inappropriate emotional connection and lots of lying and hiding. The trust is gone. The question is can you ever accept the relationship without that same level of trust and continue being married. How could he regain any of your trust?


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## MissyP (Jun 16, 2021)

Harold Demure said:


> If you want to divorce, do you have to confront him at all? Can you just present him with the package of evidence you have and tell him you want to divorce with no further discussion on the matter. - no denials, no rug sweeping, no switching it back on you and your “paranoia”, no trickle truthing to deal with.
> 
> Why put yourself through unnecessary upset, just walk away and let him do all emotional stuff? Obviously you will have a whole range of emotions to deal with but dealing all his c*#p won’t be one of them.


Yep, a definite possibility.


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## MissyP (Jun 16, 2021)

Luckylucky said:


> How has your marriage been before the discovery? Did he in any way show remorse (given it was secret)?
> 
> So sorry you’re dealing with this, do you know the woman well who told she she was surprised you were still together?
> 
> What’s her role in this?


Marriage has been good. I haven't told him I know anything yet. 
The woman who was surprised were still together was a former colleague of his. She told a friend of mine enough that i was prompted to check his text messages, which confirmed much of what she said.


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## MissyP (Jun 16, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> That makes a little more sense now. I was thinking from the point of view of interns in the tech industry, that I deal with. And I can understand why you wouldn't want to turn down a highly sought after internship.
> 
> I was also expecting you to say that you were close to being newlyweds. Not that it would make it any better, but I thought maybe you weren't that deep into the marriage/relationship. 7 years is quite a bit of time to know each other and develop trust.
> 
> ...


Yes, when he visited family in that city (we are no longer there, neither is she) he met for coffee, lunch, dinner...including dinner at his fathers home, directly after which he phoned me to say good night and never mentioned she had been there or he had seen her. I always asked before he left if he was going to visit the clinic or see anyone from there, and he always said no. I actually felt kinda sad that he hadn't maintained any connections there after such an intense year. I would have minded at all if he told me he would see her when he visited. I do mind that he saw her and lied.


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## MissyP (Jun 16, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> That makes a little more sense now. I was thinking from the point of view of interns in the tech industry, that I deal with. And I can understand why you wouldn't want to turn down a highly sought after internship.
> 
> I was also expecting you to say that you were close to being newlyweds. Not that it would make it any better, but I thought maybe you weren't that deep into the marriage/relationship. 7 years is quite a bit of time to know each other and develop trust.
> 
> ...


He has no idea I know, yet. I'm not saying anything until i know how i want to handle this.


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## MissyP (Jun 16, 2021)

Harold Demure said:


> Hi. How are you doing? I assume You have got a lot of anger going on at the moment, I know I would have.
> 
> Have you had time to start figuring out what you are going to do?
> 
> ...


Thanks for this. I'm quite sure his response will be what you suggest. Unfortunately, when your partner trusts you enough to allow you to be in a situation that could pose risks to the relationship the correct thing to do is respect the marriage and discuss boundaries to protect it if necessary, so that the other person is not hurt. The only real reason to hide behavior from your spouse is when you know it is wrong and would hurt them, but you don't want to stop it. 
I got lots the details from a form colleague of his. And confirmed them by checking his phone. He has had contact with her several times over the last 10 years, and omitted telling me about any of it. 
I am concerned about what else he hasn't told me, and what he may hide in the future and i dont think I'm interested in spending the rest of my life wondering. I feel i owe him the opportunity to explain himself, but I don't think there is any explanation that I would accept as a valid excuse for this deception. I am angry as I've ever been, but smart enough not to act on my emotions.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

MissyP said:


> i dont think I'm interested in spending the rest of my life wondering


This is the part you need remain strong on. So many posters here confront and are told a bunch of lies and end up believing it (halfway because they don't want to believe the truth) only to really start thinking it through later and they exist in a limbo land of wondering for eternity.

Do not feel the need to keep the conversation flowing when you confront him, pause in silence after his answers to see if he divulges more.

This whole thing feels like one of those long term affairs where there is not a lot of interaction between meet ups.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

MissyP said:


> Thanks for this. I'm quite sure his response will be what you suggest. Unfortunately, when your partner trusts you enough to allow you to be in a situation that could pose risks to the relationship the correct thing to do is respect the marriage and discuss boundaries to protect it if necessary, so that the other person is not hurt. The only real reason to hide behavior from your spouse is when you know it is wrong and would hurt them, but you don't want to stop it.
> I got lots the details from a form colleague of his. And confirmed them by checking his phone. He has had contact with her several times over the last 10 years, and omitted telling me about any of it.
> I am concerned about what else he hasn't told me, and what he may hide in the future and i dont think I'm interested in spending the rest of my life wondering. I feel i owe him the opportunity to explain himself, but I don't think there is any explanation that I would accept as a valid excuse for this deception. I am angry as I've ever been, but smart enough not to act on my emotions.


Did the former colleague know they had a physical relationship, or just that they were awfully friendly during the internship? You said she had dinner at his father's house. Didn't his dad think that was odd?

Have you considered asking him to take a polygraph and question him about the whole thing? I realize that sounds extreme, but given the circumstances I don't see how else you can expect to get the whole story out of him. The advice most people give around here is to not confront until you have a smoking gun and don't ask any questions you don't already know the answer too. That is difficult at best in this situation. 

Aside from the polygraph you have to come up with a way to talk about it. I'm not sure how you get on the topic, but maybe bring up the internship then casually ask, "hey have you ever talked to Jane Doe since then?" He'll probably say no or something similar. Then say, "really, you've never run into her since then?" He may get suspicious, but if you catch him in a lie you can say, "I know everything, you need to come clean if you want to have any hope of keeping me in this marriage." Not sure if that will work, but I can't think of any other way to approach it that has any chance of getting the whole story out of him.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

I'm a bit gobsmacked that he invited this woman to dinner with his father and that no one ever mentioned it to you. Do you just _never_ speak with his father? Or has his father been asked to, and agreed to, keep her presence at his home a secret from you?

I know my son bringing a woman other than his partner to dinner at my home would be something I'd definitely mention in conversation at some point. Even if I thought she was a work colleague or friend, I can't see just never brining that up or mentioning it.


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## MissyP (Jun 16, 2021)

Rowan said:


> I'm a bit gobsmacked that he invited this woman to dinner with his father and that no one ever mentioned it to you. Do you just _never_ speak with his father? Or has his father been asked to, and agreed to, keep her presence at his home a secret from you?
> 
> I know my son bringing a woman other than his partner to dinner at my home would be something I'd definitely mention in conversation at some point. Even if I thought she was a work colleague or friend, I can't see just never brining that up or mentioning it.


I don't often speak to him (I really don't like talking on the phone), and he is now in the late middle stage of dementia, so I can't ask him about it.
But I am almost positive he would have assumed I knew she came for dinner, and I that I would be fine with my husband introducing his elderly father to a close colleague and friend. And I would have been. 
I know if I did the same, my mother would mention it at some point too, so I think that's the norm, but my Dad wouldn't likely ever mention it. I'm 100% certain that my father in law wouldn't have gone along with a request to keep it a secret from me. I think it just never came up.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Some people say emotional affairs aren’t as painful as the physical ones, but I think what would hurt is that someone else was in his thoughts, and that he/she cared more about upsetting the other person.

The secrecy too - emotional affairs to me mean that the spouse is more concerned about the other friend than the marriage. He/she respects the friendship enough to put the spouse under the bus to ‘not upset’ the other person. Yes it may be innocent, yes they may really love you, but they’re already placing someone else’s feelings above yours. Even if they have no romantic or sexual attraction whatsoever, their loyalty is elsewhere. So in situations where eventually the ow/om want more… how do they they suddenly say, ‘hey I’m married, this is not on!’ They rarely do, they are just unable to disappoint that other person.


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## MissyP (Jun 16, 2021)

Luckylucky said:


> Some people say emotional affairs aren’t as painful as the physical ones, but I think what would hurt is that someone else was in his thoughts, and that he/she cared more about upsetting the other person.
> 
> The secrecy too - emotional affairs to me mean that the spouse is more concerned about the other friend than the marriage. He/she respects the friendship enough to put the spouse under the bus to ‘not upset’ the other person. Yes it may be innocent, yes they may really love you, but they’re already placing someone else’s feelings above yours. Even if they have no romantic or sexual attraction whatsoever, their loyalty is elsewhere. So in situations where eventually the ow/om want more… how do they they suddenly say, ‘hey I’m married, this is not on!’ They rarely do, they are just unable to disappoint that other person.


Yes yes yes. All the yesses!


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## Harold Demure (Oct 21, 2020)

Hi, now that the initial dust has settled down a tiny bit, I would like to put forward an alternative to the full blown emotional and physical affairs scenario.

You mentioned earlier that the internship was an intense year and this is what that relationship with the other woman is, an extremely close bond formed through intensity which is theirs’ alone and to the exclusion of all others, including you. No one, and you especially, will ever be able to become part of that bond or break it.

What you have described reads to me as them, in effect, living as husband and wife for that year. You were even treated as the “other woman” and he not only did nothing to defend you but also then took the relationship underground.

This has got to hurt because, short of divorce, there isn’t anything you can do about it. That bond is there and it always will be. Him taking it underground will always be there. He can say he will go No Contact but a) too little too late and b) would you ever trust him enough anyway.

So, here’s the rub. Let’s give him the benefit of the doubt and say they did not have sex. Is there relationship an emotional affair in the traditional way of falling in love or is it a very deep friendship formed by the intensity of the year together?

If it is a very deep friendship then it does not necessarily mean there are emotional feelings beyond that, no “I love you” scenarios but one which is platonic both physically and emotionally, it is just an intense friendship.

IF the above scenario is the case, he has lied and deceived you about the degree of contact and inter-action but, as you point out, he will say this was to avoid hurting you. If I was him, I would say the friendship is important to him, he wanted to maintain contact to “relive glory days” and that there was no emotional or physical involvement beyond that.

The thing is that all of the above could be true!

If it is, what do you do next? Once the anger dies down, would you be able to deal with this and stay in your marriage? Yes there would be a deep hurt and yes there would be trust issues but, if you are satisfied that he did not breach the sanctity (emotional or physical) of your marriage, would you be able to go through the reconciliation process?

I use the term reconciliation on purpose because I do feel your existing marriage is dead and that you need to start a new marriage to get through this.

I speak from experience on the above. My wife went through a period of intense work pressure involving long hours with a male colleague. Even though she saw more of him than me, she was not working away from home but they were the subject of gossip. It was not an easy period in our life. I was angry a lot, confronted her regularly, spied on her phone, e mails etc, would telephone her work number to ensure she was where she should be when the two of them were alone late in the office and was whiskers away from starting my own affair. It was the little things like I would make a nice dinner only for her to come home and say they had got a take away in the office. I felt disrespected and second in my own marriage. However, I did not find anything beyond that “friendship” relationship. 15 years later, I am still mad about it and, if we do row, will often fling it back in her face because a) it still hurts and b) because she still refuses to understand why I was upset. I never got the chance to talk to his wife but am still tempted to try and find her and blow the whole thing up. I know that I won’t but it is still satisfying to think I could cause him as much grief. They maintained contact after she moved jobs and would be part of a group that would meet once a week for coffee but she always told me about it first. I am sure she would not have gone if I had raised any objections.

My wife and I are 99% over that period. It hurt her when I told her I was on the verge of my own affair and had started to separate out finances etc in preparation for divorcing her. I do still think about it occasionally but we got through it and have been 50 years together this year . I have never talked about this with anyone before but hope it might be useful to show an alternative future that doesn’t involve divorce.

Here is the irony (which has nothing to do with your scenario). A former work colleague who we used to socialise with regularly with her husband there as well, made a very obvious play for me the other day. I am not and never have been interested but my wife was furious to the extent she went through all of her Facebook posts and edited out photos of this woman. Have to say a bit of me really enjoyed it and I might have dropped in a comment about her now knowing how that feels.

Sorry for the long post but, if nothing else, you could say it gives you a dress rehearsal for what your husband might say and how you may react.

Personally, once my anger had died down a bit, I would confront him. I would probably tell him his explanation may not actually make any difference to your decision to stay or go and that the hurt is very deep. I would not be surprised if his early reactions are that you are making far too much of this and it may be the threat of divorce or you leaving him is what is needed to make him understand.

I really hope the above scenario is the what happened between your husband and the other woman and that you aren’t going to come back with further evidence of a physical relationship. That would be ironic wouldn’t it, an OP trickle truthing us 😆


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

When there’s nothing to hide - people hide nothing.
There is WAY more to his involvement /connection with her than you know.

I don’t think you can ever trust him to be honest with you - given his secretive nature while away from you.

the photo you took? That’s because they were uncomfortable with YOU there! YOU were the outsider in that situation.


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## MissyP (Jun 16, 2021)

Harold Demure said:


> Hi, now that the initial dust has settled down a tiny bit, I would like to put forward an alternative to the full blown emotional and physical affairs scenario.
> 
> You mentioned earlier that the internship was an intense year and this is what that relationship with the other woman is, an extremely close bond formed through intensity which is theirs’ alone and to the exclusion of all others, including you. No one, and you especially, will ever be able to become part of that bond or break it.
> 
> ...


Here's the thing. I expected they would be close friends. I expected that due to the intensity of the situation they would have a strong and unique bond. I expected they would want to maintain it. I was absolutely fine with that. We are adults, and were in what I believed was a strong, trusting, loving relationship. What I also expected was that if his relationship with her in any way became a threat to his relationship with me, we would find a way together to manage that. I did not expect he would see there was a threat, ignore it, and decieve me by hiding it from me. 
I don't think they had sex, and it's entirely possible that their relationship was completely platonic. But if that were the case, he had no reason to think I would be hurt be it, so why hide it? He deliberately chose to maintain a relationship with her that he thought would hurt me if I knew the extent of it. He prioritized her over me. 
I'm so sorry your wife did that to you. That's terrible. I wouldn't have stayed around to be treated that way, especially with her not even acknowledging how hurtful that was to you. I don't want a relationship where I have even have something that can be thrown in the other persons face at times. 
I'm not trickle truthing you.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

MissyP said:


> Here's the thing. I expected they would be close friends. I expected that due to the intensity of the situation they would have a strong and unique bond. I expected they would want to maintain it. I was absolutely fine with that. We are adults, and were in what I believed was a strong, trusting, loving relationship. What I also expected was that if his relationship with her in any way became a threat to his relationship with me, we would find a way together to manage that. I did not expect he would see there was a threat, ignore it, and decieve me by hiding it from me.
> 
> I don't think they had sex, and it's entirely possible that their relationship was completely platonic. But if that were the case, he had no reason to think I would be hurt be it, so why hide it? He deliberately chose to maintain a relationship with her that he thought would hurt me if I knew the extent of it. He prioritized her over me.
> I'm so sorry your wife did that to you. That's terrible. I wouldn't have stayed around to be treated that way, especially with her not even acknowledging how hurtful that was to you. I don't want a relationship where I have even have something that can be thrown in the other persons face at times.
> I'm not trickle truthing you.


Your first paragraph is right on the mark. There should have been nothing to hide and if there wasn't anything to hide then why be so deceptive. 

Have you decided how you are going to handle this? I assume you are going to do something, you can't just sweep this under the rug. It will eat at you forever, at least it would to me.


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## MissyP (Jun 16, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Your first paragraph is right on the mark. There should have been nothing to hide and if there wasn't anything to hide then why be so deceptive.
> 
> Have you decided how you are going to handle this? I assume you are going to do something, you can't just sweep this under the rug. It will eat at you forever, at least it would to me.


I'm going to shortly tell him that the reason I've been not myself for the last little while is because "I have been trying to process recently finding out that you decieved me about the extent of your relationship with x while you were at xyz." Something like that. I'm not going to try and trick him into giving up info or accuse him of having an affair. No games. What happens next depends on what he says a little bit. I'm not letting this eat me up any longer.


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## Jeffsmith35 (Apr 8, 2021)

MissyP said:


> I'm going to shortly tell him that the reason I've been not myself for the last little while is because "I have been trying to process recently finding out that you decieved me about the extent of your relationship with x while you were at xyz." Something like that. I'm not going to try and trick him into giving up info or accuse him of having an affair. No games. What happens next depends on what he says a little bit. I'm not letting this eat me up any longer.


Don't confront until you have solid evidence, and even then don't show your full hand. Otherwise he will deny everything or tricke-truth you into believing nothing happened. Then you will be in an even tougher situation balancing the strength of his adamant denials against the evidence of what you know in your gut. Your relationship with him will never be the same again regardless, so build the strongest case to force him to come completely clean. Trust me on this.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Jeffsmith35 said:


> Don't confront until you have solid evidence, and even then don't show your full hand. Otherwise he will deny everything or tricke-truth you into believing nothing happened. Then you will be in an even tougher situation balancing the strength of his adamant denials against the evidence of what you know in your gut. Your relationship with him will never be the same again regardless, so build the strongest case to force him to come completely clean. Trust me on this.


I think she has all the proof she ever going to get. If there was a physical affair the bulk of it occurred 10 years ago and anything since then would have been very intermittent. Even if there was no physical affair there has been a huge breach of trust, lying and deceitful actions. She has all the proof she needs about that.


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## Jeffsmith35 (Apr 8, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I think she has all the proof she ever going to get. If there was a physical affair the bulk of it occurred 10 years ago and anything since then would have been very intermittent. Even if there was no physical affair there has been a huge breach of trust, lying and deceitful actions. She has all the proof she needs about that.


Sorry...I misread. This situation is very similar to mine, where we discovered our spouse was a bit too chummy with someone and even though they say nothing happened, they concealed the extent of their relationship with that person and THAT is what hurts and arouses our suspicions. It's a breach of marital trust that changes how we see our spouse forever, sadly.


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## MissyP (Jun 16, 2021)

Jeffsmith35 said:


> Sorry...I misread. This situation is very similar to mine, where we discovered our spouse was a bit too chummy with someone and even though they say nothing happened, they concealed the extent of their relationship with that person and THAT is what hurts and arouses our suspicions. It's a breach of marital trust that changes how we see our spouse forever, sadly.


Yes, absolutely it changes everything. Sorry it happened to you too.


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## Jeffsmith35 (Apr 8, 2021)

MissyP said:


> Yes, absolutely it changes everything. Sorry it happened to you too.


We each have a toggle point (think of an analog meter with full allegiance on one side, full commitment to divorce on the other side, and the toggle point in the middle) for the way we feel about our spouse. Prior to discovering new information like this, there is a wide range of how we feel, such that depending on the severity of our discovery it can either be the proverbial "straw that breaks the camel's back", (moving the needle all the way over to D) or just move the needle to a different part of the scale.


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## Jeffsmith35 (Apr 8, 2021)

And what hurts is that our spouse removed our agency/free choice of how we feel about them, via their actions. Which were their own free choices, but they used that free choice to do something that hurt us deeply.


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## Harold Demure (Oct 21, 2020)

MissyP said:


> Here's the thing. I expected they would be close friends. I expected that due to the intensity of the situation they would have a strong and unique bond. I expected they would want to maintain it. I was absolutely fine with that. We are adults, and were in what I believed was a strong, trusting, loving relationship. What I also expected was that if his relationship with her in any way became a threat to his relationship with me, we would find a way together to manage that. I did not expect he would see there was a threat, ignore it, and decieve me by hiding it from me.
> I don't think they had sex, and it's entirely possible that their relationship was completely platonic. But if that were the case, he had no reason to think I would be hurt be it, so why hide it? He deliberately chose to maintain a relationship with her that he thought would hurt me if I knew the extent of it. He prioritized her over me.
> I'm so sorry your wife did that to you. That's terrible. I wouldn't have stayed around to be treated that way, especially with her not even acknowledging how hurtful that was to you. I don't want a relationship where I have even have something that can be thrown in the other persons face at times.
> I'm not trickle truthing you.


I know you aren’t trickle truthing, it was a quip. You are too nice to do that.

I think your expectations are entirely reasonable, as are your views on how he maintained his relationship above your marriage. The thought that my partner would maintain any form of relationship when he/she knew it would hurt me would be irrecoverable. I just wanted to give a different perspective to ensure that you covered all possible scenarios.

My wife and I are okay, not as brilliant as it could be, but okay. Thanks for your thoughts.

I don’t know you but, from what I have read on your posts, your husband is an idiot because you sound like a very fine partner to me.

I am sure posters on this thread will be here to support you in any way we can. Good luck with everything.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

OP, they were having sex and living as a married couple. He had a double life.
You are right to be upset, there’s no freaking way they weren’t constantly having sex, and she apparently wanted you out of the picture.

EverYthing you know and have said makes a physical relationship as well as emotional pretty much irrefutable.

I’m sorry. This is really unforgivable in my opinion. And he won’t come clean, so don’t even bother. He’s been lying for 10 years.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Rowan said:


> I'm a bit gobsmacked that he invited this woman to dinner with his father and that no one ever mentioned it to you. Do you just _never_ speak with his father? Or has his father been asked to, and agreed to, keep her presence at his home a secret from you?
> 
> I know my son bringing a woman other than his partner to dinner at my home would be something I'd definitely mention in conversation at some point. Even if I thought she was a work colleague or friend, I can't see just never brining that up or mentioning it.


yep, the in laws were implicit in covering up his affair. Screw them, too.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Good luck with the confront. I know you said you are not going to "trick him" or accuse him on an affair... but exactly how you handle the confront is important to getting some real answers. If you give him obvious outs, he will take them.

I think you are correct to point out initially that you have been acting off because you found out about the extent of his relationship with x. But then you need to be careful what you ask and how you ask it. I think you should directly tell him that full honesty in his responses to the discussion will dictate what happens with your marriage and that you won't tolerate further lies, so he realizes how serious it is.

He has been playing games, if you go into this without a strong strategy, he will out fox you and you will be left wondering what really happened, perhaps for a long time, which is not good for the relationship if it continues.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

What other inappropriate relationships could he have had? You eluded to that and I wondered what you’re referring to?


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## MissyP (Jun 16, 2021)

Beach123 said:


> What other inappropriate relationships could he have had? You eluded to that and I wondered what you’re referring to?


None that I know of! But I didn't know about this one until recently, so I can't say with confidence there haven't been others.


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## Jeffsmith35 (Apr 8, 2021)

Pull up old phone records and old credit card records, if they go back that far. Or if you keep paper copies, look through those. Does he have old phones from that time you could look through?


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## Harold Demure (Oct 21, 2020)

MissyP, if you are certain that the marriage is over, is there any point in searching for any further betrayals? 

I don’t think you would gain anything from it except a load more heartache..


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## MissyP (Jun 16, 2021)

Jeffsmith35 said:


> Pull up old phone records and old credit card records, if they go back that far. Or if you keep paper copies, look through those. Does he have old phones from that time you could look through?


 The texts to her were on an old phone, and there is nothing else suspicious. I think this was situational, I can't see him doing something like this if it weren't for the whole living and working together scenario. But I obviously can't be sure of that anymore.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

MissyP said:


> Marriage has been good. I haven't told him I know anything yet.
> The woman who was surprised were still together was a former colleague of his. She told a friend of mine enough that i was prompted to check his text messages, which confirmed much of what she said.


To me, this is the hardest part. Someone outside of these relationships thought they were so close that they were shocked you two were still married. That says a LOT. That means they thought your H and this woman were so tight, that they thought they were more likely to end up together than for you two to stay married. Ouch.

And you've now been married 17 years? 7 before and 10 after.

My take, they got very close due to all the late nights, stress, excitement, etc. Formed a bond. It doesn't mean they were romantic, but it clearly was a relationship that your H hid from you - he knew you wouldn't approve. I'm guessing he enjoyed this relationship a lot, wanted it to be a little secret he got to keep. Doesn't mean they slept together or whatever, but not sure it matters.


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## MissyP (Jun 16, 2021)

Harold Demure said:


> MissyP, if you are certain that the marriage is over, is there any point in searching for any further betrayals?
> 
> I don’t think you would gain anything from it except a load more heartache..


Agree completely. No point at all. Have the texts, that's enough for me. 
I'm not yet 100% it's over, but I'm very, very close.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

MissyP said:


> Agree completely. No point at all. Have the texts, that's enough for me.
> I'm not yet 100% it's over, but I'm very, very close.


I don't envy your position. It must be heartbreaking. I feel strongly that infidelity is the end of a marriage, even if it isn't physical. Sometimes there are exceptions, but they are extremely rare. You're situation is a bit of a gray area for me, but if I put myself in your shoes I don't know if I could ever get over the loss of trust. It would always be in the back of my mind. It is hard because this is someone you love. What ever you decide, know that no one else has a right to judge your decision. I hope for the best outcome and your future happiness.


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## Jeffsmith35 (Apr 8, 2021)

MissyP said:


> Agree completely. No point at all. Have the texts, that's enough for me.
> I'm not yet 100% it's over, but I'm very, very close.


I would keep searching for more evidence. Look up Digital Forensics, they can retrieve deleted data from old phones. Well worth it when making such a huge decision. I know it is tough, but the more certain you are before you confront, the easier it will be to move forward.


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## Jeffsmith35 (Apr 8, 2021)

And even though it is one of the hardest things we will ever have to endure, the decision to end your marriage MUST be yours and must be arrived at with a sound supporting foundation - so you don't have any regrets or second thoughts later.


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## Jeffsmith35 (Apr 8, 2021)

If you confront before you are certain, your spouse will do everything possible to keep you, and you will grow to hate them because you can't fully trust them.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Does this other woman have any kids?


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## MissyP (Jun 16, 2021)

Gabriel said:


> To me, this is the hardest part. Someone outside of these relationships thought they were so close that they were shocked you two were still married. That says a LOT. That means they thought your H and this woman were so tight, that they thought they were more likely to end up together than for you two to stay married. Ouch.
> 
> And you've now been married 17 years? 7 before and 10 after.
> 
> My take, they got very close due to all the late nights, stress, excitement, etc. Formed a bond. It doesn't mean they were romantic, but it clearly was a relationship that your H hid from you - he knew you wouldn't approve. I'm guessing he enjoyed this relationship a lot, wanted it to be a little secret he got to keep. Doesn't mean they slept together or whatever, but not sure it





Beach123 said:


> Does this other woman have any kids?


No.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Why not sit down with him and allow him to understand fully and calmly how much this has deeply betrayed you?


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## Jeffsmith35 (Apr 8, 2021)

Think of evidence-gathering as defining your position going into the discussion. More damaging evidence shifts you to a D position, but less makes you unsure of R vs. D. If you look but don't find anything, you move towards the R position in your mind going into the discussion. Knowing less puts you in limbo.


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## MissyP (Jun 16, 2021)

Beach123 said:


> Why not sit down with him and allow him to understand fully and calmly how much this has deeply betrayed you?


Well, that's kinda the plan. Or at least it is one option. That's what I consider to be confronting him about it - I wouldn't confront with anger and accusations. 
I suppose one reason I am hesitating to say anything is that I am acutely aware that when I do, everything changes. Everything has already changed for me because I found out, but everything changes again when he knows I know. If that makes sense.


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## Jeffsmith35 (Apr 8, 2021)

MissyP said:


> Well, that's kinda the plan. Or at least it is one option. That's what I consider to be confronting him about it - I wouldn't confront with anger and accusations.
> I suppose one reason I am hesitating to say anything is that I am acutely aware that when I do, everything changes. Everything has already changed for me because I found out, but everything changes again when he knows I know. If that makes sense.


I understand you perfectly. You want to know as much as possible before talking with him, because once you do, you lock in a new era of how you relate to each other. Yes, you are different now and it hurts like hell. But don't lock yourself in a state of not knowing for sure, if it is possible to do so. Have a professional forensically analyze his old phone. It is money well spent, for your peace of mind. There are 3 outcomes: 1. Damaging evidence is found, you D without having to confront. 2. No damaging evidence is found. You feel relieved. 3. They are unable to recover anything (unlikely). Same situation as now. So you have a more than 66% chance of a better outcome by digging more.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

I wouldn’t look at it as a ‘confrontation’ as that has such a ‘fight kind of connotation’ - I would approach it as discovering truth conversation.

And state your question or evidence and then sit silently so he knows you expect his response.
If you feel he isn’t giving you his truth - then state “is that all?” Or “I expect you to tell me everything at this point”.

Your silence leaves room for his recollection of events.

Afterwards… I would simply say “I have much to consider” and then leave it at that so you have the space/room to process what info he does or doesn’t provide for you.

I would say soonest is best. Sitting on this info could make you start feeling physically sick…


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## Jeffsmith35 (Apr 8, 2021)

MissyP said:


> A friend of mine was at the facility and was chatting with staff who commented that they were surprised we were still together, and explained why. My friend told me and I checked his phone.
> He doesn't know that I know yet.


Ask for a more detailed explanation from your friend. Tell them that you need to make a monumental decision and they need to give you factual details. I would literally set up a meeting with the staff, to get all of the details. But make sure that whoever you speak with isn't good friends with your husband (where they would cover for him or alert him to your inquiry).


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## MissyP (Jun 16, 2021)

Beach123 said:


> I wouldn’t look at it as a ‘confrontation’ as that has such a ‘fight kind of connotation’ - I would approach it as discovering truth conversation.
> 
> And state your question or evidence and then sit silently so he knows you expect his response.
> If you feel he isn’t giving you his truth - then state “is that all?” Or “I expect you to tell me everything at this point”.
> ...


It already is making me physically sick. Sigh.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

MissyP said:


> It already is making me physically sick. Sigh.


Are you waiting for the right moment? Odds are putting it off isn't going to make it easier. It will probably feel like a huge weight being lifted once you finally do it.


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## MissyP (Jun 16, 2021)

Not so much waiting for the right moment as I know it would be bad timing right now. Unfortunate, but I think it's wise to wait.


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## MissyP (Jun 16, 2021)

Jeffsmith35 said:


> Ask for a more detailed explanation from your friend. Tell them that you need to make a monumental decision and they need to give you factual details. I would literally set up a meeting with the staff, to get all of the details. But make sure that whoever you speak with isn't good friends with your husband (where they would cover for him or alert him to your inquiry).


I think I have all the details that would be possible for any person other than the two involved could have.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

MissyP said:


> I think I have all the details that would be possible for any person other than the two involved could have.


Do you think they had a sexual relationship?


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## MissyP (Jun 16, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> Do you think they had a sexual relationship?


I don't think so, but I'm not blind to the possibility. I think they are both the type of person who know an emotional affair is as bad (or worse) as a sexual affair and would display a high amount of guilt for that.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

MissyP said:


> I don't think so, but I'm not blind to the possibility. I think they are both the type of person who know an emotional affair is as bad (or worse) as a sexual affair and would display a high amount of guilt for that.


My thoughts on this are he will never at this stage, after all this time admit to anything. My husband was caught red handed and still would not admit to it. I know it hurts you. The never ending doubts but what would confronting him actually do for you?


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## MissyP (Jun 16, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> My thoughts on this are he will never at this stage, after all this time admit to anything. My husband was caught red handed and still would not admit to it. I know it hurts you. The never ending doubts but what would confronting him actually do for you?


I don't actually need him to admit to anything. I know for a fact he hid the extent of his relationship with another woman. I'm almost certain he'll say he did this to protect me, and I'm 100% certain that concealing a relationship with another woman rather than discussing boundaries with your spouse to protect the marriage has nothing to do with protecting me. He probably really believes that this was the best approach for me, but that just tells me he has no respect for me. I mean, come on! I am living and working with another woman who deliberately acts in a way to cause my spouse concern that there is an inappropriate relationship, so the best thing to do is hide my relationship with her from my spouse. He can f*&k right off. 
I'll give him the chance to explain himself, but I honestly don't see any valid reason for this behavior. I'll be confronting him mostly to tell him that I know what he did, and how I intend to proceed. 
Sorry your husband did this to you, it's unforgivable.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

MissyP said:


> I don't actually need him to admit to anything. I know for a fact he hid the extent of his relationship with another woman. I'm almost certain he'll say he did this to protect me, and I'm 100% certain that concealing a relationship with another woman rather than discussing boundaries with your spouse to protect the marriage has nothing to do with protecting me. He probably really believes that this was the best approach for me, but that just tells me he has no respect for me. I mean, come on! I am living and working with another woman who deliberately acts in a way to cause my spouse concern that there is an inappropriate relationship, so the best thing to do is hide my relationship with her from my spouse. He can f*&k right off.
> I'll give him the chance to explain himself, but I honestly don't see any valid reason for this behavior. I'll be confronting him mostly to tell him that I know what he did, and how I intend to proceed.
> Sorry your husband did this to you, it's unforgivable.


How do you intend to proceed?


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

MissyP said:


> Not so much waiting for the right moment as I know it would be bad timing right now. Unfortunate, but I think it's wise to wait.


There’s never a right time… soonest is best.


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## nekonamida (Feb 21, 2017)

Ugh. He wasn't protecting you in the slightest. Protecting you would have been setting boundaries with this woman and turning his energy towards improving your marriage while long distance. The only one he is protecting is himself because he knows that you would have divorced him if you knew the truth. 

Don't be afraid to bluff and say you know more than you actually do when you confront. Emotions + time and opportunity - spouse oversight = full blown physical affair.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

MissyP said:


> I don't actually need him to admit to anything. I know for a fact he hid the extent of his relationship with another woman. I'm almost certain he'll say he did this to protect me, and I'm 100% certain that concealing a relationship with another woman rather than discussing boundaries with your spouse to protect the marriage has nothing to do with protecting me. He probably really believes that this was the best approach for me, but that just tells me he has no respect for me. I mean, come on! I am living and working with another woman who deliberately acts in a way to cause my spouse concern that there is an inappropriate relationship, so the best thing to do is hide my relationship with her from my spouse. He can f*&k right off.
> I'll give him the chance to explain himself, but I honestly don't see any valid reason for this behavior. I'll be confronting him mostly to tell him that I know what he did, and how I intend to proceed.
> Sorry your husband did this to you, it's unforgivable.


Was he protecting you when he brought her home to Dad for dinner and hid it from you? Sure doesn't sound like it to me.


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## MissyP (Jun 16, 2021)

Beach123 said:


> There’s never a right time… soonest is best.


I agree there is never a right time, but I think there can be the wrong time. And the wrong time is unfortunately right now, because the process and outcome would be affected by some temporary circumstances. For me, it needs to happen when I am not so stressed about other things going on in life. Will still suck, but won't be as disruptive to my focus.


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## MissyP (Jun 16, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Was he protecting you when he brought her home to Dad for dinner and hid it from you? Sure doesn't sound like it to me.


Definitely not. But I expect he will say that he was protecting me from feeling worried about the marriage when there was nothing to be worried about. If he had told me he was doing it, I wouldn't have worried. 
What he was protecting was his interest in having no boundaries put in place to protect the marriage that would change his interaction with her. He was protecting his inappropriate relationship.


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## MissyP (Jun 16, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> How do you intend to proceed?


I think I'm done, I'm not rushing to make the decision. When I decide, I'll let him know. Don't think his response will change my mind.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

MissyP said:


> I think I'm done, I'm not rushing to make the decision. When I decide, I'll let him know. Don't think his response will change my mind.


any update @MissyP? Just curious how you are doing?


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## MissyP (Jun 16, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> any update @MissyP? Just curious how you are doing?


He was away for 6 days so I haven't done anything. Well, nothing except for processing my thoughts and feelings during much needed time alone.
Thanks for checking in!


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

MissyP said:


> He was away for 6 days so I haven't done anything. Well, nothing except for processing my thoughts and feelings during much needed time alone.
> Thanks for checking in!


How are you doing @MissyP ? Have you been able to sort anything out with your husband?


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

MissyP said:


> He was away for 6 days so I haven't done anything. Well, nothing except for processing my thoughts and feelings during much needed time alone.
> Thanks for checking in!


Not sure if you are still hanging around here, but I gotta ask how its going? Hope you figured things out with your husband.


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## Harold Demure (Oct 21, 2020)

Hi, how are you?


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