# The fog



## heaven1 (Sep 27, 2012)

Hey there, This forum and the threads have given me such a great insight into myself and my husband and everything that has gone on. I have one question... Any ideas on how to get someone out of "The Fog"? I think my situation is exascerbated by the fact that I had a PA after several of his EA's. I think the current EA or EA's are being justified by my PA 2.5 years ago. His wounds are once again raw and then there is "The Fog". As I said in previous posts I was so fed up a few weeks ago that I agreed that divorce was the best option. In hindsight I could not feel more different. Any guidelines would help!


----------



## underwater2010 (Jun 27, 2012)

Check up on the 180. The "fog" will not end until the affair(s) are busted and discontinued. And even then it can take months. Have you guys done marriage counciling? Also your marriage might not be able to be salvaged. It sounds like alot of cheating has been done on both sides.


----------



## Fvstringpicker (Mar 11, 2012)

heaven1 said:


> Any ideas on how to get someone out of "The Fog"?


The absolutely best way to get someone out of a fog is to give them to the other person. It goes back to the ole saying, "be careful what you wish for, you may get it."


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

You can't "get" someone out of "the Fog" just as you can't "make" anyone do anything.

What you can do though is stand up for what you will and will not tolerate and back it up w/ actions.


----------



## SandyLady80 (Sep 14, 2012)

I'm trying to get out of the fog, myself. I had a 3 year EA and a 5 week PA with the same guy. My husband knew of everything as it was happening, so there was no sneaking around involved. Read my other thread if you need an explanation of that.

A friend of mine said, "If you cut off an affair, you have to replace it with something." I'm very confused because I'm going through the agony of cutting an emotional addiction from myself, but at the same time, straining to see my husband. I mean... I'm doing this for my husband, and the fog makes it so hard to see what actually lies in my marriage.

What if I come out the other side of this and find that I really DON'T belong with my husband? But getting out of the fog is the only way to really see it with clarity, so maybe I'm doing it for me.

Also, all the romanticism is very hard to escape. Even with all my intellect and rationality, it is very hard to convince myself that OM isn't somehow a "soulmate" or "meant to be with me". It is a very gripping addiction that requires constant little slaps in the face.

What has helped more than anything is having "thoughts" to keep me motivated. In the moment that I decided to cut off the EA (Cutting off the physical part was easy), I had reasons. I had problems that came to a head. I couldn't take it anymore. I broke down and said, "I can't live like this. This doesn't work." Over the last week, I've had to dig those thoughts back up. I have to keep reminding myself WHY I cut things off. They must be selfish reasons in order to truly loosen the grip of the fog.

My reasons: 

I could not live in limbo anymore.

I realized that I would never be satisfied with what OM gave me. I just wanted more and more. I would be in pain everytime I didn't get my "fix". I was so tired of the cycle of high/low/high/low.

If OM and I are truly meant to be together, then he will still be around after I have let go of my emotional addiction to him. At that point, I will either happily stay with my husband, or leave in an emotionally healthy manner. If OM is NOT still around, then staying in the fog at this point isn't worth it, anyway.

Even if all the fairytales I have made up in my mind about OM are true, I have realized that I am emotionally addicted. I NEED him to pay attention to me and validate me like a drug addict needs another hit. Even if OM and I were both single, that is not healthy. That is not love. I don't NEEEEEED anybody to make my life feel worth while. 

If I ultimately get divorced, OM is not the last man in the world. I have lost "the last man on earth" several times in my life and there always seems to eventually be one more "last man on earth".


I hope any of that is helpful. This is a very dark road to travel.


----------



## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

Trash me if you want but IMO "the fog" is BS. No fog, just selfishness. I think a better term for it is " Head up a unicorn's a$$"


----------



## SandyLady80 (Sep 14, 2012)

joe kidd said:


> Trash me if you want but IMO "the fog" is BS. No fog, just selfishness. I think a better term for it is " Head up a unicorn's a$$"


It's easy to think this if you have never experienced it. I used to be an extremely judgmental person. I'm actually glad that I have experienced some hard things in my life because they have humbled me.

People don't destroy their lives because they simply have their head up a unicorn's a$$. It's not that simple, and it would be great if you could stretch yourself enough to try to understand the psychological traps that people get themselves in. Or rather, if you could try to understand without having to actually experience it first.

I wasn't able to empathize with people when I was younger. My first husband was a drug addict. I had NO sympathy for his addiction. "Just quit! Duh! If you cared about your family, you would just stop! You stupid jerk!" I definitely thought that he simply had his head up his a$$.

Now I realize that, yes, he WAS a terrible person in many ways, but he was also battling demons that I couldn't see. I wouldn't even try to understand what he was going through. That drove us much further apart. I wouldn't acknowledge his pain, because I didn't think he had a right to feel any pain. 

Now I look back and understand more of why he made the choices he made. It doesn't justify any of it, but it explains how he could let himself do the things he did. I even understand why he left me and our son on our own.

EAs are very similar to addictions. May you never have to realize this first hand. Trust me. It's true.


----------



## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

joe kidd said:


> Trash me if you want but IMO "the fog" is BS. No fog, just selfishness. I think a better term for it is " Head up a unicorn's a$$"


I agree totally. 

The fog is nothing more than falling in love with a new person. A new dating relationship is alway intoxicating in its unreality. All you see is the best foot foreward of each other while dating. So sad people who cheat don't realize this.

That is why a married person is not suppose to date other people. 

You date, you have sex, you start becoming attached or addicted to the adrenaline high of the NEW ROMANCE.

It's all the early stages of falling in love. 

If it was a real dating relationship rather than the adrenaline high from cheating and sneaking around and anticipating the forbidden love so badly, a normal date might eventually be exposed for the person they are and the relationship would likely end. 

In an affair, though, the real person is never exposed because the two only see each other once in awhile away from bills and the routine of any long term marriage.

Affairs are planned, they just don't happen. They involve a lot of work to keep secret. A person who has an affair wants one. They chose it.


----------



## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

SandyLady80 said:


> EAs are very similar to addictions. May you never have to realize this first hand. Trust me. It's true.


My cheating spouse like to use the phrase "trust me" all the time. 

Alas, he wasn't trustworthy.

Also, he blamed the high of the addictive romance too. 

That is why he is STBEH. He never owned the fact that cheating was his choice.

I will never experience the addiction of cheating because while married, I had opportunities to cheat and chose not to. It's a choice.


----------



## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

joe kidd said:


> Trash me if you want but IMO "the fog" is BS. No fog, just selfishness. I think a better term for it is " Head up a unicorn's a$$"


Beat me to it. There's no fog, just own your sh!t. 

The whole theory of the fog puts the BS in an untenable position whereby they should forgive the WS because it wasn't the "real" them during the affair. Give me a break


----------



## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Complexity said:


> The whole theory of the fog puts the BS in an untenable position whereby they should forgive the WS because it wasn't the "real" them during the affair. Give me a break


Agreed. I really think expecting the loyal spouse to understand the affair as an uncontrollable psychological fog only serves to already re-traumatize and already traumatized loyal spouse.


----------



## SandyLady80 (Sep 14, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> My cheating spouse like to use the phrase "trust me" all the time.
> 
> Alas, he wasn't trustworthy.
> 
> ...


I'm not saying that we're not responsible for our choices. Of course a cheater knows they're cheating when they're cheating, and they still choose to cheat, and that's wrong.

I, too, had opportunities to cheat on my first husband. I never even thought twice about it. I would have never considered crossing that line. Same goes for the first four years I was with my current husband.

I no longer congratulate myself for resisting temptations that I never really wanted to indulge in in the first place.


----------



## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

SandyLady80 said:


> I'm not saying that we're not responsible for our choices. Of course a cheater knows they're cheating when they're cheating, and they still choose to cheat, and that's wrong.
> 
> I, too, had opportunities to cheat on my first husband. I never even thought twice about it. I would have never considered crossing that line. Same goes for the first four years I was with my current husband.
> 
> I no longer congratulate myself for resisting temptations that I never really wanted to indulge in in the first place.


It sounds, as if you are still claiming that this affair somehow came out of the blue. 

No forethought no planning. 

IMO, affairs don't just happen. People start thinking about having an affair long before it happens but MAY be in denial about this. 

The idea of an affair, is too Jerry Springer for me. I don't like intrigue and sneaking around. 

I am not congratulating myself for not having an affair. I am saying that they just seem too sleazy for my taste. 

Also, I never could lie very well, I always get red in the face. 

Also, after learning of my husband's affair, opportunities for an affair with his single best friend arose. In fact, he was somewhat relentless.

Apparently, according to mutual friends, he has always liked me, and thought my husband did not deserve me. Maybe he even knew my STBEH was cheating or at least suspected. 

Still, I resisted the revenge affair with this extremely attractive, wealthy single man, And, too my mind a revenge affair is the only type of forgivable affair. 

It's done out of hurt and pain and a desire to show the cheating spouse the damage an affair can cause to trust and well being.


----------



## SandyLady80 (Sep 14, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> It sounds, as if you are still claiming that this affair somehow came out of the blue.
> 
> No forethought no planning.
> 
> ...


I hear you. My affair was kind of weird because my husband encouraged it. It's a really weird story, and I posted it in another thread. So I was never sneaking around or lying about anything. 

Then my feelings got out of hand. My husband got really uncomfortable with the emotional attachment I was forming, and so he cut things off.

Then I realized that I was emotionally attached, and lost in the "fog". 

Because my husband originally encouraged me to have an affair, I can blame him for my actions, BUT... I will never truly know if I would have fallen in love with OM anyway. That's the part I try to be fair with.

And NOW, I may have a good excuse as to why I let myself stray, but it doesn't change the fact that the end result is the same. I now understand what it's like to be emotionally torn apart with something that is so wrong, hurtful and dangerous.

I also see that certain circumstances could catch the most well-intentioned person off guard if presented just right. I never never in a million years would have ever pictured myself having any kind of affair. I've always had an enormous amount of disdain for adulterers. Maybe it's karma.


----------



## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

I used to believe in the fog,not so much any more.
My wife though she was in love,she wasnt.
He pesented hmself falsely and she ate it up.Nothing I did was working til I turned my back on her.
She loved the cheap compliments and what a great guy he was,until I busted the A apart.then her "soulmate" said all kinds of dregrading things about her til he finally when back to living out of his work truck again,boy did he have her fooled.
She knew what she was doing was wrong to me,to the kids and wrong to herself.
The fog is an excuse for the ws to latch onto and say it wasnt really their fault.Its also a excuse to the bs,it wasnt her fault,she was in the fog,she's a victim.
Nope,not talking about crack,coke,heroin or any other drug,this was a person they gave their love to,it was a choice.One that they had plenty of time to think over.
WW says she was selfish,stupid,mean,cruel and an idiot for what she did.I'd rather hear that than being in the fog.
Were you sleepwalking when you did this crap?
Fog? Nope.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

SandyLady80 said:


> I hear you. My affair was kind of weird because my husband encouraged it. It's a really weird story, and I posted it in another thread. So I was never sneaking around or lying about anything.


That change's things greatly.

I don't consider this an affair more like a swinger/open marriage situation. 

Open marriages and swinging often end badly and in this case, since your husband encouraged it, to my mind he deserved what you did. 

So my apologies for not understanding the big picture. 

I am sorry your husband encouraged you to do soemthing that could hurt your marriage.


----------



## livinfree (Sep 7, 2012)

calvin said:


> I used to believe in the fog,not so much any more.
> My wife though she was in love,she wasnt.
> He pesented hmself falsely and she ate it up.Nothing I did was working til I turned my back on her.
> She loved the cheap compliments and what a great guy he was,until I busted the A apart.then her "soulmate" said all kinds of dregrading things about her til he finally when back to living out of his work truck again,boy did he have her fooled.
> ...


Very true there Calvin.


----------



## SandyLady80 (Sep 14, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> That change's things greatly.
> 
> I don't consider this an affair more like a swinger/open marriage situation.
> 
> ...


Thank you, but I know that to get through this, I have to own my part. I shouldn't have given in to what he wanted me to do.

I actually have a bunch of friends that are full-blown swingers. They are a really likeable bunch, but I can't fathom how in the world they keep their relationships intact. Most of them have managed to keep (seemingly) stable, permanent, happy primary relationships for years. The portion that have gotten divorced is not anymore proportionate than monogamous couples I know. It blows my mind. Yes... I know A LOT of swingers.

And, although I have a better excuse than the average cheater, I still find myself unwittingly in their shoes. I'd like to think that I never would have cheated if my husband hadn't encouraged it, but now I see my weaknesses, and I honestly can't say anymore that I'm exempt from cheating. Now I wonder how the average cheater "lets it in". Once you crack that door open just a little, the wind just blows it wide open into your face.

I CAN say that I am even more against cheating than I was before. I never want to go through this again, but we're all human, and we can never foresee how clever the devil on our shoulder can be. When evil doesn't FEEL evil... you've got a big problem.

Oh... Just for the record... DON'T swing! It might work out, but you're just putting everything you have out on the roulette table. Why take the chance?


----------



## heaven1 (Sep 27, 2012)

SandyLady80 said:


> I'm trying to get out of the fog, myself. I had a 3 year EA and a 5 week PA with the same guy. My husband knew of everything as it was happening, so there was no sneaking around involved. Read my other thread if you need an explanation of that.
> 
> A friend of mine said, "If you cut off an affair, you have to replace it with something." I'm very confused because I'm going through the agony of cutting an emotional addiction from myself, but at the same time, straining to see my husband. I mean... I'm doing this for my husband, and the fog makes it so hard to see what actually lies in my marriage.
> 
> ...


 Thank you so much for sharing. I understand a lot of what you are feeling having experienced it myself. What you need to remember is that those feelings of him being around if you get divorced are still part of the fog! I only realised the gravity of the situation when I completely mentally cut him off. In fact he contacted me a few months ago. I simply did not respond or discuss it. 

With regard to my husband he is always of the mindset that it's not serious, doesn't mean anything, only friendship. There are two huge BUTS. 1) He starts to treat me so badly that I notice immediately and 2) The humiliation of all this is what led me to have an affair in the first place. Right now he cannot seem to even follow logic or see any consequences. He actually seems to blame me for the fact the he and the "friend" both lied to their spouses. He said several times that if I never spoke to her husband this wouldn't have happened. They were both already lying and she was not the only one. A blast from the past has also reared her ugly head 

*sigh*


----------



## heaven1 (Sep 27, 2012)

SandyLady80 said:


> Thank you, but I know that to get through this, I have to own my part. I shouldn't have given in to what he wanted me to do.
> 
> I actually have a bunch of friends that are full-blown swingers. They are a really likeable bunch, but I can't fathom how in the world they keep their relationships intact. Most of them have managed to keep (seemingly) stable, permanent, happy primary relationships for years. The portion that have gotten divorced is not anymore proportionate than monogamous couples I know. It blows my mind. Yes... I know A LOT of swingers.
> 
> ...


Ahh... The whispers of the Devil.


----------



## heaven1 (Sep 27, 2012)

underwater2010 said:


> Check up on the 180. The "fog" will not end until the affair(s) are busted and discontinued. And even then it can take months. Have you guys done marriage counciling? Also your marriage might not be able to be salvaged. It sounds like alot of cheating has been done on both sides.


I agree that its a huge mess! But when I was on my absolute last frayed nerve I got a little bit of inspiration and I am prepared to fight the good fight. If he walks out the door and breaks my babies hearts then he did it and not me. Until that point I will do my best.


----------



## heaven1 (Sep 27, 2012)

Fvstringpicker said:


> The absolutely best way to get someone out of a fog is to give them to the other person. It goes back to the ole saying, "be careful what you wish for, you may get it."


At one point I was right there!


----------



## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

SandyLady80 said:


> I CAN say that I am even more against cheating than I was before. I never want to go through this again, but we're all human, and we can never foresee how clever the devil on our shoulder can be. When evil doesn't FEEL evil... you've got a big problem.
> 
> Oh... Just for the record... DON'T swing! It might work out, but you're just putting everything you have out on the roulette table. Why take the chance?


There are likely some couples who can survive an open marriage. But both have to be into it and set firm ground rules. 

I could't do it and am not interested, but I think in rare cases, if BOTH are into it, it might work. 

You can't be forced into it, though, or do it to save your marriage or please a spouse.

I don't think you succumbed to cheating, I think you were invited to do it by your husband. In your case, my guess is you wanted to please this moron of a husband.

In this case your husband was the clever devil on your shoulder and he wasn't just whispering he was commanding.

As for any other devil, once your husband is out of the picture, you can resist, it's called impulse control. 

IC might help if you are having problems with compulsions to cheat going forward.


----------



## heaven1 (Sep 27, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> My cheating spouse like to use the phrase "trust me" all the time.
> 
> Alas, he wasn't trustworthy.
> 
> ...


I agree that it is to some degree a selfish choice, however some people take steps onto a path and sometimes you get pushed or pulled or fall over and find yourself on a completely different path.


----------



## SandyLady80 (Sep 14, 2012)

heaven1 said:


> Ahh... The whispers of the Devil.


Lol... The devil is funner to listen to. Wouldn't it be nice if he wasn't?


----------



## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

heaven1 said:


> I agree that it is to some degree a selfish choice, however some people take steps onto a path and sometimes you get pushed or pulled or fall over and find yourself on a completely different path.


Heaven:

The best way to fix yourself after cheating is to own the blame. 

It seems here as if you are still making excuses. 

You seem to be saying that there was some external force that caused you to cheat against your will. 

There is no external force. To heal you need to look within. Until you do that you will remain broken.


----------



## SandyLady80 (Sep 14, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> I don't think you succumbed to cheating, I think you were invited to do it by your husband. In your case, my guess is you wanted to please this moron of a husband.
> 
> In this case your husband was the clever devil on your shoulder and he wasn't just whispering he was commanding.


Yes, he has acknowledged that he was the devil on my shoulder. He realizes what a mess he helped me create and now we are trying to clean it up. I think the biggest problem for me is trying to figure out if I can really trust his intentions again. Or if I can really feel safe and protected by him again. sigh...

I feel doubts about my husband and marriage, and then I wonder if that's just the fog talking. Maybe that's my way of justifying a continuation of my affair. I just really don't know what's good anymore.

At some point, I grew my own "devil". So by the time my husband realized that he was feeding something dangerous, I already had my own 400 pound monster talking to me 24/7. Then he tried to cut everything off, and... Oh lord. Now I have to fight my own monster!

I'm just really glad that at least I kept it all to one man. I didn't let it get so out of hand that I was spreading myself around to the whole neighborhood. Ewww. I don't know if I could ever really do that, anyway.

I've been in therapy for a few months, and we are planning on starting couple's therapy soon.


----------



## life.is.pain (Aug 28, 2012)

There is no such thing as being in a fog. 

We all know what we do for we use our minds to control our actions. So if someone decided to cheat its because they have been thinking of cheating for a while and do it when the opportunity presents itself. 

Its selfishness not no fog. The person lying or cheating is only thinking of their own feelings and their own thoughts, no one else matters to them.


----------



## heaven1 (Sep 27, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> Heaven:
> 
> The best way to fix yourself after cheating is to own the blame.
> 
> ...


I hear what you are saying and I am in no way saying that I am not responsible for the outcome. I am. That said I didn't wake up one day and say "Ooh what I will do today is start an affair. Any volunteers?" I was so angry and humiliated and I was just talking... Are all WS just talking to begin with? And then I am lying and sneaking and doing the very things that humiliated me in the first place! I would say once it was over it took me a good few months to actually see things as they really were. No matter how I felt that was never the right thing to do and I know that.


----------



## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

SandyLady80 said:


> It's easy to think this if you have never experienced it. I used to be an extremely judgmental person. I'm actually glad that I have experienced some hard things in my life because they have humbled me.
> 
> People don't destroy their lives because they simply have their head up a unicorn's a$$. It's not that simple, and it would be great if you could stretch yourself enough to try to understand the psychological traps that people get themselves in. Or rather, if you could try to understand without having to actually experience it first.
> 
> ...


I know my wife had an A because she was selfish, not because of a mysterious fog. Sounds like a crutch to me....the devil made me do it. Sorry but I have no empathy for anyone who willingly screws over their spouse. Life comes down to choices, I can deal with" I messed up please forgive me". Not "it's not my fault I was in a fog". We will just agree to disagree.


----------



## heaven1 (Sep 27, 2012)

life.is.pain said:


> There is no such thing as being in a fog.
> 
> We all know what we do for we use our minds to control our actions. So if someone decided to cheat its because they have been thinking of cheating for a while and do it when the opportunity presents itself.
> 
> Its selfishness not no fog. The person lying or cheating is only thinking of their own feelings and their own thoughts, no one else matters to them.


I have to agree to disagree. When it was me it was not like that. In recent times even when I have been most furious at my WH EA's, I still do not think he deliberately started this. I think that perhaps we were in a vicious cycle. 

Him: Multiple Ea's and treated me like poop 
Me: PA
Him: Confiding in friends and over a few days/weeks it becomes more and his anger is back and again treating me like poop

and here we are. Except this time I am hoping to break the cycle.


----------



## heaven1 (Sep 27, 2012)

joe kidd said:


> I know my wife had an A because she was selfish, not because of a mysterious fog. Sounds like a crutch to me....the devil made me do it. Sorry but I have no empathy for anyone who willingly screws over their spouse. Life comes down to choices, I can deal with" I messed up please forgive me". Not "it's not my fault I was in a fog". We will just agree to disagree.


I agree and disagree... The devil may whisper but if we listen then that's on us. 

As with any addiction a person chooses to take the first sip/pill or whatever else.


----------



## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

heaven1 said:


> I agree and disagree... The devil may whisper but if we listen then that's on us.
> 
> As with any addiction a person chooses to take the first sip/pill or whatever else.


Affairs are addictions now?


----------



## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

joe kidd said:


> Affairs are addictions now?


Lets go to the clinic
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## heaven1 (Sep 27, 2012)

joe kidd said:


> Affairs are addictions now?


Well according to the plethora of info on this forum...I swear I did not make that up. I would not have even considered it until I read it here.


----------



## SandyLady80 (Sep 14, 2012)

I know throwing the word "addiction" out is kind of lame sometimes. The word gets thrown around for everything. It's not so much that "affairs are addictions". It's just that once you find yourself emotionally attached to someone you shouldn't be, trying to break free of it is like trying to break free of an addiction. 

Of course, there was a point that you took that first hit. When that first choice was made, it was not made out of addiction. There are many reasons that choice could've been made, the least of which is compulsion.

But once you are hooked, it seems almost impossible to let go. I don't understand why someone that has once engaged in an affair and eventually moved on would want to start another one later. That's like breaking free of cocaine and then later deciding to "just try" heroin. That's self destructive. I guess there are a million reasons people do it.


----------



## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

heaven1 said:


> I agree that it is to some degree a selfish choice, however some people take steps onto a path and sometimes you get pushed or pulled or fall over and find yourself on a completely different path.


How is it "to _some degree_ a selfish choice? What percentages of selfish are you noting? 
I don't get where in the equation and to what degree is this not selfish ? 

Sorry but you do not "get pushed, pulled" "fall over" or "find yourself" as if by magic on a completely different path

I'm not getting personal here but there is the one word that all cheaters bar none are invisible too 

CHOICE / CHOICES

Having been on the end of it and had to analyze cheats and cheating for what seems like too much of my life I can only conclude that they are born with the the word missing in their psyche or in any way shape of form at all 

CHOICE / CHOICES

It may be new news but actually you have it, it was always there and will always be there in the future and for me is where the ability to forgive is either possible or not

If you have no choices and I mean really no real choices at all - then that's entirely different there's always a bucket load of empathy sympathy for that 
However 99% of cheats do have the choice but here's the irony, if you will, 'choose' not to take themselves up on it


----------



## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Headspin said:


> How is it "to _some degree_ a selfish choice? What percentages of selfish are you noting?
> I don't get where in the equation and to what degree is this not selfish ?
> 
> Sorry but you do not "get pushed, pulled" "fall over" or "find yourself" as if by magic on a completely different path
> ...


Right, IMO, and the affair only becomes an adrenaline junkies addiction, after the fact. That is the cheater CHOOSES to cheat and then the addiction takes place AFTER THE CHEATER CHOOSES TO CHEAT. 

Then they get hooked and it's difficult to stop. 

Still, it's always a choice.


----------



## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

All I'm saying is own it.


----------



## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

heaven1 said:


> Hey there, This forum and the threads have given me such a great insight into myself and my husband and everything that has gone on. I have one question... *Any ideas on how to get someone out of "The Fog"?* I think my situation is exascerbated by the fact that I had a PA after several of his EA's. I think the current EA or EA's are being justified by my PA 2.5 years ago. His wounds are once again raw and then there is "The Fog". As I said in previous posts I was so fed up a few weeks ago that I agreed that divorce was the best option. In hindsight I could not feel more different. Any guidelines would help!


Yes, when he comes home he finds you gone and you stay gone until he snaps out of it.

Anything less and you're prolonging the pain and/or the reconciliation.


----------



## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

I gave mine a choice. Him or me. If there had been any hesitation the choice would have been made for her. She made the choice with no promise that I would stick around.


----------



## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

SandyLady80 said:


> I know throwing the word "addiction" out is kind of lame sometimes. The word gets thrown around for everything. It's not so much that "affairs are addictions". It's just that once you find yourself emotionally attached to someone you shouldn't be, trying to break free of it is like trying to break free of an addiction.
> 
> Of course, there was a point that you took that first hit. When that first choice was made, it was not made out of addiction. There are many reasons that choice could've been made, the least of which is compulsion.
> 
> But once you are hooked, it seems almost impossible to let go. I don't understand why someone that has once engaged in an affair and eventually moved on would want to start another one later. That's like breaking free of cocaine and then later deciding to "just try" heroin. That's self destructive. I guess there are a million reasons people do it.


I spose the despairing fact is that we are all different each has there own strengths and weakness and appears under different scenarios in different guises.

I have been in the same situation as the cheat plenty of times in my life through work particularly.

Why am I able to find the strength to think "mmm she's rather stunning and I can see she likes me too and we get on well and I'd could easily get straight in there" but then *right then and there at that crux of a moment*am able to also respond with "mmm.., but don't be silly - you have a gorgeous woman at home, who's putting our fantastic children to bed and getting my dinner ready and then is ready to listen to me rant on about work and then fk my brains out with fantastic sex!" Wtfk am I thinking!" God how would that utterly destroy my wife!!?

"Actually (to OW) I won't be going for that drink with you after work as I can't wait to get home to my wonderful wife (thus letting her know, nicely, that this is simply never going to happen)

THAT was my choice right there right then - I was in the 'fog' was 'in love' for about 1.5 seconds and of course in another life if I was single, I'd be salivating over her but I made MY CHOICE

I'm sorry but all cheats imo have precisely this choice and guess what you do!?

If there is 'a fog' then you choose to go happily into it knowing exactly where it will lead. I do believe one can get one's head there but only for as long as it takes to work out what it will be like to say to your children you 'll have to see them every other wkend for the rest of their lives


----------



## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

"Affairs are planned, they just don't happen. They involve a lot of work to keep secret. A person who has an affair wants one. They chose it."" 

<-------been dwelling on this very thought for a few hours today....and it has triggered me like a ton of bricks. The realization of how very diabolical and deceitful it is. How a WS can make at least 100-2000 _decisions_ to erode the marriage and wound their partner during the course of their affair.


----------



## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

daggeredheart said:


> "Affairs are planned, they just don't happen. They involve a lot of work to keep secret. A person who has an affair wants one. They chose it.""
> 
> <-------been dwelling on this very thought for a few hours today....and it has triggered me like a ton of bricks. The realization of how very diabolical and deceitful it is. How a WS can make at least 100-2000 _decisions_ to erode the marriage and wound their partner during the course of their affair.


Exactly. I am still trying to wrap my brain around the fact that my seemingly honest to a fault husband, had secret bank accounts, secret credit cards, burn phones, secret email accounts and secret trips to wonderful resorts and secret dates to nice restaurants, and of course the hotel trips, that he paid for with cash he withdrew a lot of cash from our bank accounts to spend on the low life OW.

The affair required a LOT of planning. A lot. It didn't just happen.


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Selfish, yes but also very irrational, hence, irrational behaviours become explained by the "fog"

For example, I will never understand a man who wants to prioritise the needs of his female "friends" (who are dating or married to other men, most likely) ahead of his wife who is loyal to him (lives with him; has children with him; "puts up" with his family, shares finances......)

Our society is going to go to hell in a hand basket if we don't rein in this "friends" stuff.


----------



## heaven1 (Sep 27, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> Exactly. I am still trying to wrap my brain around the fact that my seemingly honest to a fault husband, had secret bank accounts, secret credit cards, burn phones, secret email accounts and secret trips to wonderful resorts and secret dates to nice restaurants, and of course the hotel trips, that he paid for with cash he withdrew a lot of cash from our bank accounts to spend on the low life OW.
> 
> The affair required a LOT of planning. A lot. It didn't just happen.


This is my point! Why in the world would someone rational continue to do something like this. The lies and deceipt would surely become an unbearable burden. That's the insanity I think. In an EA you would still have some of same things ie secret emails, deleting texts and chats and so on which I would think is part of the same problem.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## heaven1 (Sep 27, 2012)

daggeredheart said:


> "Affairs are planned, they just don't happen. They involve a lot of work to keep secret. A person who has an affair wants one. They chose it.""
> 
> <-------been dwelling on this very thought for a few hours today....and it has triggered me like a ton of bricks. The realization of how very diabolical and deceitful it is. How a WS can make at least 100-2000 _decisions_ to erode the marriage and wound their partner during the course of their affair.


So sorry. I know this stuff can and must really hurt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

heaven1 said:


> This is my point! Why in the world would someone rational continue to do something like this. The lies and deceipt would surely become an unbearable burden. That's the insanity I think. In an EA you would still have some of same things ie secret emails, deleting texts and chats and so on which I would think is part of the same problem.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's selfishness, being self absorbed, putting ones jollies ahead of any loved one's feelings. 

It's not really irrational or insane. 

My STBEH had a trusting spouse at home, who never thought he would cheat. So, I never checked up on his whereabouts. He new I was not the suspicious type. He used that to his advantage. 

It was all too easy and logical and he felt entitled. Nothing insane about that simply selfish.

BTW: Truly insane people are not capable of planning. Their actions are very disorganized and spur of the moment.


----------



## heaven1 (Sep 27, 2012)

NextTimeAround said:


> Selfish, yes but also very irrational, hence, irrational behaviours become explained by the "fog"
> 
> For example, I will never understand a man who wants to prioritise the needs of his female "friends" (who are dating or married to other men, most likely) ahead of his wife who is loyal to him (lives with him; has children with him; "puts up" with his family, shares finances......)
> 
> Our society is going to go to hell in a hand basket if we don't rein in this "friends" stuff.


I totally agree..."friends" seems to be the road to hell! Just friends and then suddenly I am considering how my husband can be agreeing that we should divorce based on an argument surrounding a "friend"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Sara, it might be that you didn't give your STBEH enough structure. 

My fiancé did not become my fiancé until I told him that I could not be his gf as long as he was going to have his "friend" around. And that's when he proposed.

I'm thinking that I had taken the lead in managing relationships while still married, it would probably be a different story.


----------



## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Sorry guys,my wife did'nt use the fog excuse til she got on here and I bought into it to for a couple months,Beowulf had me convinced ( God I miss him and Morrigan ) but when she started owning up to her EA ( she even met up with him in public ) she admitted she was selfish,lazy in working on us and put the blame on me.
When she strarted to admitt she knew it was wrong and not this fog bs,thats when I knew we had a shot.
Call it what you want,fog,devil or whatever,it all comes down to personal accountability and nothing more.
Stand up and put the blame where it belongs.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

> A friend of mine said, "If you cut off an affair, you have to replace it with something."


Your friend has that a bit skew-whiff. 

Q) What do you replace an affair with? 
A) Your marriage.


----------



## SandyLady80 (Sep 14, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Your friend has that a bit skew-whiff.
> 
> Q) What do you replace an affair with?
> A) Your marriage.


Hmmmm. That's a good thought. I'm not sure if it's always that simple, though. I think she meant that I should find something to distract myself with. Right now, I try to focus my energy on my husband, but sometimes it just frustrates me to the brink of insanity. I can't explain the emptiness I feel when it's just me and him alone. Is that emptiness the cause or the result of the affair? I feel like I don't even know which way is up anymore.


----------



## heaven1 (Sep 27, 2012)

SandyLady80 said:


> Hmmmm. That's a good thought. I'm not sure if it's always that simple, though. I think she meant that I should find something to distract myself with. Right now, I try to focus my energy on my husband, but sometimes it just frustrates me to the brink of insanity. I can't explain the emptiness I feel when it's just me and him alone. Is that emptiness the cause or the result of the affair? I feel like I don't even know which way is up anymore.


I think that the emptiness is definitely because of the affair. The emptiness will pass but you have to make it. Don't give up so easily. I know a lot of people are extremely pro- divorce with any form of adultery and to be honest so was I. I just think that we are all ready to give up so easily in the false hope that being free of your current spouse will solve everything. I was reading divorce stats especially pertaining to children and the shocking thing was the amount of second and third divorces! This says to me that the newfound freedom of ditching your WS or unhappy marriage doesn't exactly lead you to the Holy grail the next time or any subsequent time!! Distressing I know but a hefty dose of what's out there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tonyarz (Sep 15, 2012)

I will never understand how someone could take back their spouse after an affair. I really don't understand you guys. Don't you guys have enough confidence in yourself to find someone that will love you and won't do this to you? Maybe I am in the minority here. I am not bashing. I just don't understand it.


----------



## heaven1 (Sep 27, 2012)

I am willing to try to move on. That said it isn't a matter of confidence in myself. I am confident that I could meet someone else... I just don't want to. Also I believe that I had children with this man and I owe it to them to try absolutely everything before I throw there lives into turmoil. I don't think you are in the minority. The forum seems to have a higher % who think infidelity should result in divorce.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

tonyarz said:


> I will never understand how someone could take back their spouse after an affair. I really don't understand you guys. Don't you guys have enough confidence in yourself to find someone that will love you and won't do this to you? Maybe I am in the minority here. I am not bashing. I just don't understand it.


But it's not quite that simple is it.

Every relationship is different 

If you've been together for three yrs, married for 18 months no kids then she/he cheats then it's far easier to think "Oh well that was great for a bit but I wont put up with that and move on"

Lets say you've been together for 20 yrs have 3 kids have shared countless wonderful times and know how deep and strong you've been together but then suffer infidelity it's often easier to stay in it chasing what has been obviously good.

The want, the will to 'repair' it is stronger if you have been stronger and longer together imo hence many betrayed spouses giving it another chance or as in my case many chances

It takes an awful lot of courage to reconcile or try to


----------



## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

NextTimeAround said:


> Sara, it might be that you didn't give your STBEH enough structure.
> 
> My fiancé did not become my fiancé until I told him that I could not be his gf as long as he was going to have his "friend" around. And that's when he proposed.
> 
> I'm thinking that I had taken the lead in managing relationships while still married, it would probably be a different story.


Perhaps. 

Still, there are people who give their spouses structure and they are still cheated on. 

I think the issue is that alas, we chose to marry selfish people. 

I always knew my husband was selfish, but I chose to ignore it. 

I am easy going and a people pleaser. So he always got his way. 

I preferred to let him have his way rather than argue. 

A truly non-selfish person would want to compromise automatically. 

For example, I have female friends who don't like certain types of food styles as much as I like them.

Still, they will automatically suggest that it is my turn to pick the restaurant.

My STBEH would never automatically compromise like that. And if I insisted, which I rarely did, he would sulk. 

So, I don't think it's ever a lack of anything the spouse did that caused cheating. 

I do think being possessive and controlling and structuring the spouses life makes it far more difficult to cheat. So, although the spouse in such a situation may be profoundly miserable in the marriage, he will not cheat because it's too difficult to do without getting caught and most men who cheat want to cake eat.

But, I really don't want a husband that doesn't cheat because I am possessive controlling and structure his day like a petulant six year old. 

I want a man who has the integrity to stay faithful out on his own, despite any women who offers to easily open her legs for him. 

Is that too much to ask. 

Please guys feel free to chime in. I am truly curious.

Lastly if a person cheats during an engagement, I think it is best to run. That is the time when the partner is suppose to have stars in their eyes for their soon to be spouse.

My STBEH treatment special during our dating phase and engagement and early married years. 

He had no female friends. He rarely even looked at women.


----------



## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

calvin said:


> Sorry guys,my wife did'nt use the fog excuse til she got on here and I bought into it to for a couple months,Beowulf had me convinced ( God I miss him and Morrigan ) but when she started owning up to her EA ( she even met up with him in public ) she admitted she was selfish,lazy in working on us and put the blame on me.
> When she strarted to admitt she knew it was wrong and not this fog bs,thats when I knew we had a shot.
> Call it what you want,fog,devil or whatever,it all comes down to personal accountability and nothing more.
> Stand up and put the blame where it belongs.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Agreed. I am really weary of people counselors, the betrayer, the betrayed who put the blame on the betrayed spouse. 

The bottom line, is if the betrayer is unhappy, divorce was always an easy option.


----------



## SandyLady80 (Sep 14, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> Agreed. I am really weary of people counselors, the betrayer, the betrayed who put the blame on the betrayed spouse.
> 
> The bottom line, is if the betrayer is unhappy, divorce was always an easy option.


I'm not arguing the rest of your point, but WHAT?? Did you just say divorce was an "easy" option? Sorry... that just really caught me off guard. Sometimes divorce is relatively easy, but sometimes you're a stay at home mom with 5 kids and an abusive husband that controls all the money and you have no employable skills or extended family. I mean... I know it's easy to say, "Just get divorced if you feel like that!" But... divorce can be overwhelmingly difficult sometimes.

Actually, I knew a lady that found herself in exactly that position. She did end up having an affair, but then she finally got the nerve to leave after years of abuse.


----------



## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

SandyLady80 said:


> I'm not arguing the rest of your point, but WHAT?? Did you just say divorce was an "easy" option? Sorry... that just really caught me off guard. Sometimes divorce is relatively easy, but sometimes you're a stay at home mom with 5 kids and an abusive husband that controls all the money and you have no employable skills or extended family. I mean... I know it's easy to say, "Just get divorced if you feel like that!" But... divorce can be overwhelmingly difficult sometimes.
> 
> Actually, I knew a lady that found herself in exactly that position. She did end up having an affair, but then she finally got the nerve to leave after years of abuse.


You misunderstood what I meant by easy option. 

I meant easy from a legal perspective, not an emotional one. 

Also, I understand that a large majority of women stay after a husband has cheated because they are financially dependent. 

But is that good? It's almost a guarantee that he will cheat again because he know the wife is trapped. 

If a wife is trapped. Stay but start getting your ducks in a row. Get a job, or go back to school to learn job skills that bring in a large paycheck.

But staying because you can't afford to Divorce is NOT a valid or permanent solution, IMO. 

It just shows the cheater that the wife is and will always be a financial slave and a doormat.

Added later:

Also, if you are worried about finances, you need to see an attorney pronto. 

Most wives in the U.S. end up getting a larger proportion of marital assets after a divorce. 

In many states if married 20 years or longer the wife gets permanent alimony until death, remarriage or winning the lottery, if a spouse cheated. 

If married less time, they get at least three years rehabilitative alimony plus half the assets and custody of the kids. 

So, in the U.S. most divorcing wives do very well. 

Go see an attorney please.


----------



## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Well just to lighten up - a warning to all those in the CWI forum

We are getting very close to November so expect it to get a lot foggier in the coming months!


----------



## tonyarz (Sep 15, 2012)

I understand what you are saying. I couldn't do that. I ended up having tons of affairs because the ex wife gave the green light when she had hers. I just don't see how you guys can look at your wife the same. That isn't what marriage is all about. 



Headspin said:


> But it's not quite that simple is it.
> 
> Every relationship is different
> 
> ...


----------



## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

My wifes didnt go physical and its still damn hard to do R.
I like that she is taking the responsability for what she did and not blaming it on the damn "fog"
If she had kept using that excuse I dont think we would make it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

tonyarz said:


> I will never understand how someone could take back their spouse after an affair. I really don't understand you guys. Don't you guys have enough confidence in yourself to find someone that will love you and won't do this to you? Maybe I am in the minority here. I am not bashing. I just don't understand it.


This works, if you view a wife or husband as being akin to a toaster. If it doesn't work, get another one.

But real life is not that simple.


----------



## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> This works, if you view a wife or husband as being akin to a toaster. If it doesn't work, get another one.
> 
> But real life is not that simple.


Sorry to disagree MattMatt, it works for those that have enough self respect to not put up with disrespect.


----------

