# Is this how an affair happens?



## Soveryalone (Jul 19, 2013)

So for people who have had affairs , you weren't getting something from your spouse , emotionally , sexually and rather than try to figure it out with your husband or wife you went elsewhere? IS the reason for having an affair really that different for a man and a woman ? I was always under the impression that woman have affairs for emotional reason and men have them for sexual reasons. But I guess its never a black and white thing. So I assume when someone's needs aren't being met at some point they get those needs met from someone else and it quickly evolves into an EA and then quickly into a PA? my question is this - Why don't you have some dignity and respect and talk to your husband or wife? Why not address the issues that are forcing you to betray your marriage with your spouse ? Why be so selfish , why do people so quickly confuse lust and love ? 

Why is it so difficult for people to communicate their thoughts and feelings ? Why do people remain in relationships they don't want to be in , just because they are terrified of being alone , or just because of the children. I cant ever fathom betraying the person I loved because of my own inability to communicate. if you aren't happy with someone , try to get happy before you look elsewhere.


----------



## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Just ask the 999999 husbands who find out their wives did anal, bondage, spanking, humiliation, public sex, pictures... With their APs who NEVER got anything like that from their wives.

Many of whom would have gladly supplied such services had it simply been requested of them.


----------



## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

What you are writing is true and not true... The WS often uses the line that they 'missing' something... I know I heard a bunch of that crap from my EX. Like you said the question was why couldn't she talk to me????

The answer is it was easier to cheat. She felt like she was entitled to it like Chumplady wrote. She did not care about what the family went through. She never had the guts to talk to me about any of it and you know what she sure as heck wasn't the perfect wife or mom, not in the least.

I was never perfect but who is? She decided to cheat. The cheater is the one who decided to cheat and break up the family. They could always seek counseling, or file for divorce but they feel that they are entitled to cheat. It's easier to cheat when you are married. If you are married then someone has wanted you so your value goes up and it's easy to step out when you have your spouse doing half the work. I'll let my husband mow the grass and take all the kids to the game and I'll go screw my lover...

It's all selfish and I will just never understand it but I just don't care. Move on and enjoy your life.


----------



## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Soveryalone said:


> So for people who have had affairs , you weren't getting something from your spouse , emotionally , sexually and rather than try to figure it out with your husband or wife you went elsewhere? IS the reason for having an affair really that different for a man and a woman ? I was always under the impression that woman have affairs for emotional reason and men have them for sexual reasons. But I guess its never a black and white thing. So I assume when someone's needs aren't being met at some point they get those needs met from someone else and it quickly evolves into an EA and then quickly into a PA? my question is this - Why don't you have some dignity and respect and talk to your husband or wife? Why not address the issues that are forcing you to betray your marriage with your spouse ? Why be so selfish , why do people so quickly confuse lust and love ?
> 
> Why is it so difficult for people to communicate their thoughts and feelings ? Why do people remain in relationships they don't want to be in , just because they are terrified of being alone , or just because of the children. I cant ever fathom betraying the person I loved because of my own inability to communicate. if you aren't happy with someone , try to get happy before you look elsewhere.


With those rare 1 in 1 million exceptions, people betray mostly because they are quitters and/or addicted to betraying.

It's easy to betray.

It's a lot harder to build and maintain a relationship. Although the rewards are infinitely better.


----------



## cledus_snow (Feb 19, 2012)

to your point OP, i will never understand how these people feel it's easier to engage in an affair, rather than turn to their SO and say- "Hey, can we talk?"


----------



## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

weightlifter said:


> Just ask the 999999 husbands who find out their wives did anal, bondage, spanking, humiliation, public sex, pictures... With their APs who NEVER got anything like that from their wives.
> 
> Many of whom would have gladly supplied such services had it simply been requested of them.


Nothing like a bit of new flesh and the fog driven by the lust chemicals. Nothing like a new high then just keep lying your arse off. Easy.


----------



## Soveryalone (Jul 19, 2013)

that's weird I didn't get email notification on this thread.


----------



## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

> So for people who have had affairs , you weren't getting something from your spouse , emotionally , sexually and rather than try to figure it out with your husband or wife you went elsewhere?


BINGO!!!



> IS the reason for having an affair really that different for a man and a woman ? I was always under the impression that woman have affairs for emotional reason and men have them for sexual reasons. But I guess its never a black and white thing.


Aint nothing black and white with infidelity, grey is more like it and then you have to factor in the specifics to get a real feel for the situation, every situation is unique but cheaters traits are almost text book in behavioral patterns.



> I assume when someone's needs aren't being met at some point they get those needs met from someone else and it evolves from an EA and then quickly into a PA?


It is not about needs being met, it is purely about a lack of respect for themselves or anyone else and a major lack of communication between spouses.



> Why don't you have some dignity and respect and talk to your husband or wife?


Waywards most often do not respect themselves, why start with someone else?



> Why not address the issues that are forcing you to betray your marriage with your spouse ?


Human trait of following the path of least resistence, it avoids having to learn or know anymore than you have/need to.



> Why be so selfish?


For a great many this is not being selfish, this behavior is normal to them, from the point of them getting what they want, it is only our view that is a selfish act because we are people who share our lives with our SOs.



> Why do people so quickly confuse lust and love ?


But that is a little bit of a myth, the feeling of being in love is a chemical reaction, the same chemical reaction is occuring whilst he/she is banging the APs brains out, whether that be physically or phsycologically as with EAs, so it is almost the same as being in love, same feeling same chemical reactions. 



> Why is it so difficult for people to communicate their thoughts and feelings ?


Often it is because some people do not like confrontation or are actually more suubconciously scared that they are actually the cause of the marriage/relationship breakdown, who wants to talk it over and resolve an "issue" that has the potential to be a fault within themselves and would damage an ego when you can cheat and ruin multiple lives?



> Why do people remain in relationships they don't want to be in , just because they are terrified of being alone , or just because of the children.


Everyone is different and every relationship is unique, yes some people are terrified of being alone and although they would not admit it they "need" to be with someone, but these people are insecure and immature in the belief that they can cheat and be in a relationship, those that choose to stay married for the children are in some ways honorable but also ridiculous for cheating, if they were to put as much effort into sorting out the problems as they would [email protected] some new bit of stuff they would have a wonderful marriage, but they are too self centered to realize that much.



> I cant ever fathom betraying the person I loved because of my own inability to communicate. if you aren't happy with someone , try to get happy before you look elsewhere.


Me either, but I am curios of your own personal experience of infidelity? It would help me to understand you point of view better, are you a WS/BS or lucky enough to have never been in either pairs of shoes?


----------



## Soveryalone (Jul 19, 2013)

My story is very tame compared to many on here. I was in a 12 year relationship that pretty much was over a few years back but we stayed together because we didn't know how to be apart, we had gotten addicted to the comfort of one another, having someone there. A few months back she started talking to an old friend of ours, and she started lying, hiding things from me, acting shady. 3 weeks after I physically left her and him became official , she went to spend the weekend with him. and even though we drifted apart the last few years, emotionally , sexually , in every way really , I wont lie, when I left it did really hurt badly , but its improving slowly.


----------



## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

Soveryalone said:


> My story is very tame compared to many on here. I was in a 12 year relationship that pretty much was over a few years back but we stayed together because we didn't know how to be apart, we had gotten addicted to the comfort of one another, having someone there. A few months back she started talking to an old friend of ours, and she started lying, hiding things from me, acting shady. 3 weeks after I physically left her and him became official , she went to spend the weekend with him. and even though we drifted apart the last few years, emotionally , sexually , in every way really , I wont lie, when I left it did really hurt badly , but its improving slowly.


Gutsy,good onyah


----------



## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

Soveryalone said:


> 3 weeks after I physically left her and him became official , she went to spend the weekend with him. and even though we drifted apart the last few years, emotionally , sexually , in every way really , I wont lie, when I left it did really hurt badly , but its improving slowly.


Well done for taking the initiative to leave and not to go down the road of cheating, but there was a point where your relationship was in decline but neither of you made the effort to change the situation now that is something worth thinking over for yourself, what was so wrong that you didn't want to fix and the same for her I suppose?

Of course it hurts to leave comfort and security, but that is part of the adventure, NEVER LOOK BACK, you got it easy, some of us here have a great deal more pain to deal with daily!!!

Be sure you make the effort and work with a future spouse to build a long lasting relationship that is watertight against infidelity, your previous relationship wained and neither of you saved it, a mistake perhaps?


----------



## Soveryalone (Jul 19, 2013)

Ye regret is one of the many rides I frequent in the hellish amusement park. but everything happens for a reason and if I start walking down the "what if" path , I might not ever return mentally haha, but Ye I just learned a ton , and honestly up until the end she was a really amazing person, very loyal, loving, supportive. And truth be told I asked for this over the years with my actions, inactions. But I cant do anything about the past, and I certainly cant do anything about the present ( as far as thinking about her often) but I did learn a ****load about myself and if and when I do get involved again I think I will be much better off.

And yes I know for sure my story on a scale of 1-10 is a 1 compared to the hell I read on here, kids, mortgages, divorce attorneys ... I am the first to admit this was extremely tame in comparison. Now post leaving , the few interactions I have had with her were ... VERY painful, and she did say a few things to me ( on my birthday ) that I cant ever forget, and are so burned into my psyche , but yea the few days of anxiety I felt prior to leaving are nothing compared to the pain I read on here daily.


----------



## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

It isn't always that black and white. Most people talk to their spouses about what is missing and the spouse ignores it. 

My cousins husband had an affair and while they were in counselling, their therapist said that she was also at fault for his affair, but that doesn't mean that he had to go out and do it. 

Also the lack of communication in a marriage doesn't help either. ALSO most affairs are not planned out.. It's not like waking up one day and saying I am going to have an affair, they usually just happen, because of what is lacking in your marriage and you like the attention you get, before you know it, it has gone way to far and you can't stop!!! It is like an addiction. The AP feeds the fire... Makes you feel good and so on.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Soveryalone said:


> So for people who have had affairs , you weren't getting something from your spouse , emotionally , sexually and rather than try to figure it out with your husband or wife you went elsewhere? IS the reason for having an affair really that different for a man and a woman ? I was always under the impression that woman have affairs for emotional reason and men have them for sexual reasons. But I guess its never a black and white thing. So I assume when someone's needs aren't being met at some point they get those needs met from someone else and it quickly evolves into an EA and then quickly into a PA? my question is this - Why don't you have some dignity and respect and talk to your husband or wife? Why not address the issues that are forcing you to betray your marriage with your spouse ? Why be so selfish , why do people so quickly confuse lust and love ?
> 
> Why is it so difficult for people to communicate their thoughts and feelings ? Why do people remain in relationships they don't want to be in , just because they are terrified of being alone , or just because of the children. I cant ever fathom betraying the person I loved because of my own inability to communicate. if you aren't happy with someone , try to get happy before you look elsewhere.


There are different reasons for cheating.

Some affairs happen because a person is not getting needs met. They find themselves making friends with someone who is glad to meet the missing needs. So the affair progresses.

But keep in mind that no one can meet 100% of another person's needs. So even in a good marriage both spouses have some unmet needs. If most of their needs are met by their spouse the chance of an affair is much lower. But affair happen even in good marriages. I think of it as a glass full 3/4's full of water. Most of us can do very well with our spouse meeting about 3/4's of our needs. But then someone comes along who filling that 1/4 top of the glass. Now 100% of the person's needs are met. And suddenly the dopamine levels are over the top and the person cannot turn down this fix. It's hard for many to resist this sort of temptation/high. Their spouse can never fill that last 1/4 of the glass. And they have found how to get it met... and affair.

There are also people who are just broken. Some are narcissists, some anti-social... we could go on with labels. But basically they think that it's ok to cheat.. what their spouse does not know will not hurt them. Or they feel entitled. These are the true serial cheaters. Lying and cheating is just who they are.


----------



## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

Soveryalone said:


> Ye regret is one of the many rides I frequent in the hellish amusement park. but everything happens for a reason and if I start walking down the "what if" path , I might not ever return mentally haha, but Ye I just learned a ton , and honestly up until the end she was a really amazing person, very loyal, loving, supportive. And truth be told I asked for this over the years with my actions, inactions. But I cant do anything about the past, and I certainly cant do anything about the present ( as far as thinking about her often) but I did learn a ****load about myself and if and when I do get involved again I think I will be much better off.
> 
> And yes I know for sure my story on a scale of 1-10 is a 1 compared to the hell I read on here, kids, mortgages, divorce attorneys ... I am the first to admit this was extremely tame in comparison. Now post leaving , the few interactions I have had with her were ... VERY painful, and she did say a few things to me ( on my birthday ) that I cant ever forget, and are so burned into my psyche , but yea the few days of anxiety I felt prior to leaving are nothing compared to the pain I read on here daily.


OP, time for you to move on. And of course you will move on despite our saying here.

Some cheaters, feel that they are entitled (a part of it goes to unmet needs) to cheat, some just offer themselves for a few good words and gestures of ship wreckers, some fall prey for predators, some cheat for ego stroking........the list goes on.


----------



## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

ladybird said:


> It isn't always that black and white. Most people talk to their spouses about what is missing and the spouse ignores it.
> 
> My cousins husband had an affair and while they were in counselling, their therapist said that she was also at fault for his affair, but that doesn't mean that he had to go out and do it.
> 
> Also the lack of communication in a marriage doesn't help either. ALSO most affairs are not planned out.. It's not like waking up one day and saying I am going to have an affair, they usually just happen, because of what is lacking in your marriage and you like the attention you get, before you know it, it has gone way to far and you can't stop!!! It is like an addiction. The AP feeds the fire... Makes you feel good and so on.


The counsellor was 100% wrong, but I bet your cousin's husband agreed.


----------



## mtpromises (May 27, 2013)

ladybird said:


> It isn't always that black and white. Most people talk to their spouses about what is missing and the spouse ignores it.
> 
> My cousins husband had an affair and while they were in counselling, their therapist said that she was also at fault for his affair, but that doesn't mean that he had to go out and do it.
> 
> Also the lack of communication in a marriage doesn't help either. ALSO most affairs are not planned out.. It's not like waking up one day and saying I am going to have an affair, they usually just happen, because of what is lacking in your marriage and you like the attention you get, before you know it, it has gone way to far and you can't stop!!! It is like an addiction. The AP feeds the fire... Makes you feel good and so on.


You've pretty much summed it up. There are BS's out there who really can't be reasoned with no matter how much their WS tries. 

Staying with someone who refuses to grow and change is extremely hard.

It does seem like most BS have to believe all affairs are planned out (even if it's a one night stand) because then it takes any fault away from them and places the blame solely on the WS.


----------



## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

mtpromises said:


> You've pretty much summed it up. There are BS's out there who really can't be reasoned with no matter how much their WS tries.
> 
> Staying with someone who refuses to grow and change is extremely hard.
> 
> It does seem like most BS have to believe all affairs are planned out (even if it's a one night stand) because then it takes any fault away from them and places the blame solely on the WS.


After all, if you make a choice, as an adult, to cheat then it can't be your fault can it?


----------



## mtpromises (May 27, 2013)

Chris989 said:


> After all, if you make a choice, as an adult, to cheat then it can't be your fault can it?


If that's how you see it maybe so. I know my post is going to be taken the wrong way, but that's ok. I've said what I've needed to. Have a great day.


----------



## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

I cheated on my wife, a ONS a year and a half ago. It was my choice, my mistake, and one that came at the end of an evening of multiple opportunities to change the eventual outcome.

However, to reduce what happened to me not talking to my wife is unfair. I talked to my wife for 16 years and 2 counselors. Yet, at no point in that 16 years did she ever change or make an effort to try to change anything.

I did not go looking to do what I did. After it happened I told her the first time I was alone with her after my return. We are a year and a half into recovery from my choice and 16 years of both of us making bad choices.


----------



## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

I believe I said that it was my choice. In the second sentence, I said it was my choice, how about I say it again, does that make it more of my choice now?

No, my wife did not cheat, however she will tell you that she purposefully and intentionally neglected me throughout our marriage.

You get from one place to another by taking multiple steps. I own my steps and she owns hers.


EDIT: So I don't look crazy, there was a post in between these last two that was deleted.


----------



## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Tasorundo said:


> I believe I said that it was my choice. In the second sentence, I said it was my choice, how about I say it again, does that make it more of my choice now?
> 
> No, my wife did not cheat, however she will tell you that she purposefully and intentionally neglected me throughout our marriage.
> 
> You get from one place to another by taking multiple steps. I own my steps and she owns hers.


I deleted my comment so yours may look a little odd now.

I asked if it was your choice. Thanks for your reply.

Many of the posts I see from former cheating spouses have an air of victimhood about them; perhaps I am over sensitive, although I believe I am being logical about my view that cheating is a choice taken and not connected to the marriage.

This is because people in "good" marriages cheat as do people in "bad" marriages. 

People who cheat look back before their choice for a reason to justify their decisions - it is an all too typical human trait and well know logical fallacy (more or less post hoc).

The point is, nobody has to cheat. It is a similar argument to the "poor upbringing=criminal behaviour", whereas those with good upbringing commit crime and many with poor upbringings, don't.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Tasorundo said:


> I cheated on my wife, a ONS a year and a half ago. It was my choice, my mistake, and one that came at the end of an evening of multiple opportunities to change the eventual outcome.
> 
> However, to reduce what happened to me not talking to my wife is unfair. I talked to my wife for 16 years and 2 counselors. Yet, at no point in that 16 years did she ever change or make an effort to try to change anything.
> 
> I did not go looking to do what I did. After it happened I told her the first time I was alone with her after my return. We are a year and a half into recovery from my choice and 16 years of both of us making bad choices.


I've stated my position clearly numerous times that cheating is the wrong choice to make 100% of the time. What you did was wrong and you deserve to deal with the consequences of that choice. 

But there is a disconnect that I see on CWI where not every case of cheating is based on the notion that the BS is a lily white pure person while the WS has the blackest of hearts and is the devil incarnate. In most cases, the truth is somewhere in the middle. The bottom line is that you get out of marriage whatever you put into it. I've seen a number of cases personally and on various forums where a spouse gets complacent, puts little to no effort into his/her marriage and the other spouse is neglected as a result. The issue becomes how does the neglected react? From personal experience, most neglected spouses try to work on the issue first. But what if "bad" spouse refuses to make changes? It happens all the time, and I'm sure that a number of the BS's on this forum minimized the concerns of their spouse. No, I'm not saying all BS's did this, but I've read enough threads over here plus seen it with my own 2 eyes to know this is not uncommon at all. It's quite possible for the "wronged" spouse to react in the wrong way and cheat. 

My wife has a relative who ended up divorced from his wife. She cheated on him and he was heart broken. Prior to her cheating, for years he never took her out on dates, spent time with her in any meaningful way, hardly ever talked to her on a deeper level or even went on vacation with her and her kids. He had a hobby that he really enjoyed doing, and prior to the cheating most of the family realized that there were problems in his marriage. I heard that one day he was doing his hobby and a relative asked him why isn't he spending time with his wife today. He told the relative that "if she wants to spend time with me, she knows where I am. She can come to me". This situation is not so clear cut. Yes, the wife made a horrible decision. Her decision was a reaction to the years of time she spent with him. I know she tried repeatedly to get him to spend more time with her. He refused. 

I'll be honest though. What does gall me on the CWI forum is the rigid belief that a BS does not play a role in the cheating of a WS. In examples where the BS has blatantly wiped his/her ass with the marriage license, the response is always, "well, the WS should have never cheated. She/he could have talked to the BS or divorced". You are right - the WS should have been the better person. But by the same token, and this is for situations where the BS was clearly a bad spouse, why didn't the BS become the better person and correct his/her problems whenever they are pointed out to him/her? IMHO, this can work both ways.


----------



## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

I am a victim of some things in my marriage, however I was not forced into my choice. It was selfish, cowardly, cruel, and hurtful for both of us.


----------



## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I'll be honest though. What does gall me on the CWI forum is the rigid belief that a BS does not play a role in the cheating of a WS. In examples where the BS has blatantly wiped his/her ass with the marriage license, the response is always, "well, the WS should have never cheated. She/he could have talked to the BS or divorced". You are right - the WS should have been the better person. But by the same token, and this is for situations where the BS was clearly a bad spouse, why didn't the BS become the better person and correct his/her problems whenever they are pointed out to him/her? IMHO, this can work both ways.


I could postulate a common scenario - one where the BS is demonised by the WS as an excuse to justify their cheating. I could postulate another, where the BS and WS simply aren't suited. The WS figures the best way is to have their cake and eat it too - they are too cowardly to end the marriage, so cheat instead. How about another; the BS abuses the WS physically and mentally. Does cheating fix that? No - it probably makes it worse in the long run. We could go on and on telling stories about poor cheating spouses that were seemingly forced into it by the evil hearted BS that refused to change or listen to the betrayed spouses deep routed hurt at being in such a terrible marriage with such an awful person. 

However, we live in a society where divorce is easy. Where there are support structures in place for single people - even with children. Even if we didn't, does that mean that you *have* to cheat? Nobody is ever forced to cheat. Ever.

Cheating is always wrong. Two wrongs do not make a right. You clearly do not accept that.

I have a theory about why certain contributors support the position that a BS can "cause" another adult human being to cheat. So far, it panned out every single time.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Chris989 said:


> I could postulate a common scenario - one where the BS is demonised by the WS as an excuse to justify their cheating. I could postulate another, where the BS and WS simply aren't suited. The WS figures the best way is to have their cake and eat it too - they are too cowardly to end the marriage, so cheat instead. How about another; the BS abuses the WS physically and mentally. Does cheating fix that? No - it probably makes it worse in the long run. We could go on and on telling stories about poor cheating spouses that were seemingly forced into it by the evil hearted BS that refused to change or listen to the betrayed spouses deep routed hurt at being in such a terrible marriage with such an awful person.
> 
> *However, we live in a society where divorce is easy. Where there are support structures in place for single people - even with children. Even if we didn't, does that mean that you *have* to cheat? Nobody is ever forced to cheat. Ever.
> 
> ...


You are mistaken. I do not condone cheating. I never intend to cheat on my spouse no matter my situation. I can't guarantee that I won't cheat because the reality is that anyone can fail in a moment of weakness. 

If you want to agree to disagree, that's fine by me. It's commonly accepted wisdom on her to assume that anything a WS says is automatically viewed as "just being in a fog". I'm sure it's true for some. But I don't believe it's true for all. The flip side is also true. I've seen plenty of threads over here started by a BS where this person has "no idea" why their WS is cheating on them. As you dig a little deeper, you see some things that indicate that the BS wasn't quite so lily white after all. There is also a BS fog too. Most people equate the BS fog to the notion that he/she wants to rug sweep and go back to the way life used to be. But there is also a BS fog where the person simply can't comprehend why he/she was cheated on, but when they dig deeper the eventually realize that they had more faults than they knew. 

Again, I'm not saying that cheating is right nor is it acceptable. Unfortunately, spouses are also human and can fail at a moment of weakness. You lay out a number of scenarios and trivialize why a WS would want to stick around in a marriage and why cheating is never the right way out. I agree with you that cheating is the worst option that a person can pursue. But I can see why people would pursue it. The biggest reason would be children. If your only options are cheating or divorce (assuming that working it out is a dead end), I can see where a person would choose to cheat in order to cope with a bad marriage if that person does not want to be a part time parent. Same for why a BS wants to reconcile so quickly for the sake of the kids. They too don't want to become part time parents. 

Does it make it right? Of course not. But when people are in the middle of these situations, it's quite possible (and common) for that person to react to a bad situation by doing something bad themselves. I agree that two wrongs don't make a right. But not all people are perfect rational actors. People make bad choices all the time for irrational reasons.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Great post, Plan9.


----------



## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

On the communication thing:

At some point, the relationship goes from best friends who are just sort of into the uniqueness of you, to one where you are judged and rated as a spouse and how well you are doing that job. So both learn to ‘put their best foot forward’ as far as how they appear to be doing their job and hide all the junk that might make themselves look bad.

I think one of the worst travesties to happen to a couple is when they decide to create a ‘job description’ of what their spouse should be and try to hold them to that standard. It’s a much different standard than you would hold anyone else to or why you married them in the first place. It creates expectations and sets yourself and your spouse up for failure after failure. They do want to please you... but you spend so much time ripping them down for not being “this or that” that they just start assuming a costumed part around you hoping to stay out of trouble.


----------



## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

From my own situation my wife held back and decided not to be a complete part of our marriage, we know what the problem is/was just finding out the real reason why she decided not to work harder on fixing it as opposed allowing the crack to fissure into a colossal fracture, time will heal our wounds, I can shoulder some blame for not pressing her on "issues" but I shoulder no blame for her actions, if she was unhappy she could always have talked when I did try to communicate about the issues or she could have uupped and left, either would have been better than cheating!!!!

My 2c is this, if it is that bad, leave, if your spouse refuses to work with you and no amount of talking helps, then leave.

Happiness does not come from cheating, not for anyone involved!!!


----------



## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> But I can see why people would pursue it. The biggest reason would be children. If your only options are cheating or divorce (assuming that working it out is a dead end), I can see where a person would choose to cheat in order to cope with a bad marriage if that person does not want to be a part time parent.


I contend that your argument is logically flawed and self contradictory. I see cheating as wrong in 100% of cases in just the same way as a serious crime.

In just the same way as a serious crime, I am sure there are very rare cases where the cheating can somehow be justified - perhaps on the grounds of emotional or mental health of somebody effectively "trapped" in a bad marriage.

I suspect, however, that we haven't see one of those cases in many a year in much the same way as premeditated murder is rarely justifiable.

You may balk at the comparison, but the pain a betrayal can cause is way beyond that caused by sustaining a mere physical beating.

I contend that, unless you have been the victim of a betrayal, you are not in a position to see the truth of the matter.

I have been a non-victim for 24 years of a relationship and a victim for 1 year. I know my thinking before becoming a victim was quite different to that after and I also know that I had zero comprehension of what it *really* means.

I fervently hope you never see my point of view.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Soveryalone said:


> So for people who have had affairs , you weren't getting something from your spouse , emotionally , sexually and rather than try to figure it out with your husband or wife you went elsewhere? IS the reason for having an affair really that different for a man and a woman ? I was always under the impression that woman have affairs for emotional reason and men have them for sexual reasons. But I guess its never a black and white thing. So I assume when someone's needs aren't being met at some point they get those needs met from someone else and it quickly evolves into an EA and then quickly into a PA? my question is this - Why don't you have some dignity and respect and talk to your husband or wife? Why not address the issues that are forcing you to betray your marriage with your spouse ? Why be so selfish , why do people so quickly confuse lust and love ?


Sometimes it's greed, other times you where neglected for far too long, other times it was lust, other times it was alcohol and being in the wrong place just one too many times, other times people feel entitled to it!



Soveryalone said:


> Why is it so difficult for people to communicate their thoughts and feelings ? Why do people remain in relationships they don't want to be in , just because they are terrified of being alone , or just because of the children. I cant ever fathom betraying the person I loved because of my own inability to communicate. if you aren't happy with someone , try to get happy before you look elsewhere.


I'm that way now out of being cheated on in a heinous and deliberate fashion, part of it being designed to make me feel badly... I would never want to intentionally hurt someone I care about like this.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Chris989 said:


> I contend that your argument is logically flawed and self contradictory. I see cheating as wrong in 100% of cases in just the same way as a serious crime.
> 
> In just the same way as a serious crime, I am sure there are very rare cases where the cheating can somehow be justified - perhaps on the grounds of emotional or mental health of somebody effectively "trapped" in a bad marriage.
> 
> ...


You misunderstand what I wrote. I did not say cheating was ever justified. I agree with you that it is wrong 100% of the time. But that doesn't mean that I can't understand why it happens either. Again, let's go back to the kids situation. I can see a dissatisfied spouse who tried to improve a marriage thru communication and was rebuffed by the offending spouse electing to cheat on his/her spouse. I would never condone it nor would I think the dissatisfied spouse would be justified to engage in an affair. But I can understand why he/she would come to the conclusion to cheat. It would come down to the kids and wanting to not become a part time parent and/or wanting to ensure that the kids have a "stable" two parent home. The "logic" of the WS in a situation like this would be that since he/she will never get their needs met by the offending spouse after communication, they will stay for the sake of the family, and to become a better family member they will get their needs met elsewhere in order to ensure that the kids have a stable home. Bad logic? Absolutely. But does this happen frequently? I believe it does happen very often.

The flip side is the same, broken logic. A BS's natural instinct is to forgive a WS and try to make it work at all costs for the sake of the children. Also, if they know that nothing will change, a number of BS's would sacrifice themselves in order to ensure that their kids have a stable home environment. Just like a WS elects to cheat in order to get their needs met elsewhere so that he/she can "commit" themselves to their family and make the best of it, I can and have seen BS's pushing for R knowing that the R will be false for the sake of keeping the family together. 

My belief is that there are 2 sides to every coin. Just like in coin collecting, the value of a coin is only as high as the side with the poorest condition. You can be a living saint and be married to a royal jackass. Your marriage would be poor because it is based on how well the "offending" spouse works on the marriage. In a situation where resentment builds up over time and where the offended spouse feels trapped in the marriage (most likely thru the kids), they could feel that there is no way out and elect to cheat as the best way they can think of to cope with a poor situation. Obviously we both know that it only leads to greater problems and more unhappiness. But in the moment, I can see how a person could jump to that conclusion.

To be clear, I realize this only explains a portion of the infidelity stories out there. I recognize that there are BS's out there who are cheated on but were great spouses who worked hard for the marriage. They simply chose a broken spouse. I also know that a spouse can make a major error via a ONS despite having a great track record as being a strong worker in a marriage. I realize that pulling your weight in the marriage does not guarantee you a happy, infidelity free experience, but it sure help minimize the chances of it happening. When you choose not to work for the betterment of your marriage and take your spouse for granted, you run the risk that the offended spouse may cheat on you. It doesn't make it right, but if the offended spouse feels trapped in the marriage and you as the offending person refuses to change for the better despite pleas to do so, you run the risk of being cheated on. Does it make it right? NO. But if the aggrieved spouse feels trapped in the marriage, he/she may feel like this is his/her only way to cope with a bad situation. 

It is the same flawed thinking that


----------



## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Go on the websites that discuss A's and infidelity and you will see examples where people engage in A and afterwards will state that their M was great. There are various reasons people use for cheating, even if their M was good or great. 

My wife rewrote the entire M. Redesigned who I was. Acted all nice to me and I found out for years she was telling family and friends what an SOB I was behind my back. Sad thing was, her two older brothers never believed her, yet did not have the bal*s to tell me the mean nasty stuff she was saying about me. 

Why would she come to me and talk about how our M suc*ed when in fact it was pretty good? She would not have been able to have a conversation with me based on lies. She had to convince others and herself that her M suc*ed to justify her cheating. If any of her friends or family would had come to me and told me what my wife was saying about me I would had been shocked. The reason she did not sit and talk with me was she wanted to cheat. If she would have said, "Hey Mac, let's talk about our suc*y M", I would have said "what are you talking about?" She could not bring up abuse to me, there wasn't any, yet she was telling friends and family that I was abusing her. She could not bring up to me that I was unaffecionate, I wasn't, but she ws telling others that I was. Etc, etc. So, if my wife wanted to sit down and talk about our M what would the conversation had been? In her mind she created a fake nasty M.

Now that we are in R she has mentioned all the lies that she told to justify her selfish actions.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Thorburn said:


> Go on the websites that discuss A's and infidelity and you will see examples where people engage in A and afterwards will state that their M was great. There are various reasons people use for cheating, even if their M was good or great.
> 
> My wife rewrote the entire M. Redesigned who I was. Acted all nice to me and I found out for years she was telling family and friends what an SOB I was behind my back. Sad thing was, her two older brothers never believed her, yet did not have the bal*s to tell me the mean nasty stuff she was saying about me.


Amazing. Especially since they knew it wasn't true. Just ONE person warning you of the maliscious statements behind your back would have at least allow you to brace yourself for the impact.



Thorburn said:


> Why would she come to me and talk about how our M suc*ed when in fact it was pretty good? She would not have been able to have a conversation with me based on lies. She had to convince others and herself that her M suc*ed to justify her cheating. If any of her friends or family would had come to me and told me what my wife was saying about me I would had been shocked. The reason she did not sit and talk with me was she wanted to cheat. If she would have said, "Hey Mac, let's talk about our suc*y M", I would have said "what are you talking about?" She could not bring up abuse to me, there wasn't any, yet she was telling friends and family that I was abusing her. She could not bring up to me that I was unaffecionate, I wasn't, but she ws telling others that I was. Etc, etc. So, if my wife wanted to sit down and talk about our M what would the conversation had been? In her mind she created a fake nasty M.


There was nothing to talk about. She knew she wanted to cheat. She fabricated a storyline which allowed her to justify it. The sick part about it, is her brain may have actually twisted the reality to reflect what came out of her mouth. She may have been experiencing delusions around you, which where required for her to feel positive about what she was doing to you.



Thorburn said:


> Now that we are in R she has mentioned all the lies that she told to justify her selfish actions.


It's alot of lying. Much of it would need to be driven out to purify her. Much like a interrogator pummels his subject. It would be driven out till the regions inhabited by the lies now represent stress and pain, so she doesn't want to do it.

When you've been lied to and cheated on so often, and easily. Where do you get motivation to proceed?


----------



## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

treyvion said:


> Amazing. Especially since they knew it wasn't true. Just ONE person warning you of the maliscious statements behind your back would have at least allow you to brace yourself for the impact.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


For me God intervened. Without Him there is no way I could have gotten this far, forgave her, and even attempt to move forward with her. Even with God it is very hard at times. And even with God's intervention I could have D without regret.


----------



## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Thorburn said:


> For me God intervened. Without Him there is no way I could have gotten this far, forgave her, and even attempt to move forward with her. Even with God it is very hard at times. And even with God's intervention I could have D without regret.


Your story - I mean, your whole story - that of your life - is an amazing one.

I kind of kept up with your main thread but had to stop a while back as it got so painful. It was great to see you resurface and seeming like a man reborn.

You're one in a million Thorburn and your wife is one incredibly lucky woman.

Keep it up; you are an inspiration.


----------



## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

Chris989 said:


> The counsellor was 100% wrong, but I bet your cousin's husband agreed.


 I know I am going to get heat for this but, I think the therapist was correct, BUT it doesn't mean he should have had an affair, they should have worked it out before the affair and went to counselling before it started.. That probably would have brought all their issues out on the table. 

On another note, my cousin is the one who agreed to his affair being part her fault.

Granted there are men and woman out there who cheat just because they can, but for some it isn't the case..


----------

