# SO Kissed Friend and Developed Feelings



## Charlie12 (Sep 18, 2018)

I am 42 and my wife of 12 years is 44. On Saturday night during a camping trip, I saw my wife sneak away at 2:00 am with one of my friends. I tried to find them with no luck, so I called him 10 minutes later, he didn’t answer, and they returned a few minutes later. I questioned her on it and she admitted she kissed him and they returned because I called. Upon further questioning she said this is the second time this happened this summer. She said that she recently developed feelings for him but only kissed him on 2 nights. I believe there was nothing more, but maybe I am being naïve. 

We talked all that night and have been talking and crying a lot since. I am completely devastated, don’t sleep, no appetite, can’t think straight, and the worst part is I have lots of flashbacks of seeing them together. I believe she is truly sorry and feels terrible. She said she tried to cut it off after the first time kissing, but was somehow addicted to spending time with him and could not end it. 

He is a bachelor and alcoholic who has destroyed a few other marriages. He is the life of the party and I think she admired that. I believe he prays on married women as he wants the fun without the relationship. Apparently I have not been giving her the attention she needs and she was intrigued by the bad boy in him. She had been talking to him at parties at our weekend home and enjoyed his companionship. I was around for most of it and didn’t pick up on it. I went to bed early on the 2 nights the kissing occurred. I woke up looking for her on the second occasion. 

I confronted him the following morning and his story aligned with only kissing as well as other details. I do believe it was limited to that, but probably would have escalated in the near future. He offered to let me punch him in the face, but I didn’t take him up on it. I don’t think he developed the feelings she has and was only looking for a good time. Their stories line up and they didn’t have time to corroborate. I ended it with “do not contact her and if she contacts you, please let me know.” We crafted a text later that night asking him to avoid all contact. I don't think he has any feelings for her, but I don't trust that he would not sleep with her given the opportunity. 

She said that after she kissed him the first time she started crying and asked him to take her home. The second time she said after she kissed him she told him this can’t happen again, then I called. She knew it was wrong but couldn’t stop herself. Alcohol was involved on both occasions, particularly the first. We party every weekend at our weekend home during the summer. 

I love my wife and I thought we had a great life and a decent marriage. We have 2 kids (7 & 10), we rarely fight, a beautiful home, weekend home, great vacations, nice cars, good jobs, money in the bank, healthy for the most part, and no real hardships. I have been stressed over the past couple months because of work, not sleeping well, working too much and as a result I am probably not giving her the attention she needs. Two months ago she told me she was no longer attracted to me and didn’t know what to do about it. This is around the same time she started enjoying talking to him. She is attractive, works out a lot and in great shape, I’m just average. We started to give each other more attention after talking about our concerns and as a result things were slowly improving.

She told her mom and 2 friends about it after the first kiss as she was trying to get help. I believe she was trying to end it, but somehow could not stop. 
She is a good person, but had a complicated childhood. She claims to have “Daddy Issues” but I don’t understand it completely. I believe she is remorseful after seeing the pain she has caused me. We have been talking a lot. She agreed to end all contact and full access to her phone and anything else I want. I love her and do not want my children to go through a divorce. Unfortunately, it cannot be undone. 

We are seeing a counselor tomorrow and we both want to see this work. What are the odds she can end what seems like an addiction with him? Is it likely to happen again down the road with someone else? Is it truly an addiction? Does anyone have a stories of success and if so, what tips do you have? Thanks in advance


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Please tell me that you are wiping him out of your life pronto...that is he not welcomed any where from you or your wife. why would you even what to be friends with someone who wreck marriages...that is flirting with disaster. BTW you know there was groping...also why the hell would you invite him to come camping with you two.....honestly Charlie you are truly naive.

Lastly do not play the "pick me" with your wife if she does not want to be in the marriage and wants to be with him tell to leave but never come back


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Time will tell.

She is at a crossroads in her life. With forces from 'without' pulling her every which way.

Away from you.

She is salvageable at this point.
That point can shift away at any time.

Keep her close, keep her loved.

Her love has drifted, not left yet.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

If someone kissed my so and then offered to let me punch him in the mouth he would be eating through a straw for the foreseeable future.
And I would give considerable thought to throwing her ass out.
If you truly believe it went no further than kissing on the two occasions that they have admitted to then then you may want to consider counseling.But you know what,if she was capable of sneaking off with the local ***** master while you were with her on the trip do you really believe it never went any further than kissing.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Charlie12 said:


> I am 42 and my wife of 12 years is 44. On Saturday night during a camping trip, I saw my wife sneak away at 2:00 am with one of my friends. I tried to find them with no luck, so I called him 10 minutes later, he didn’t answer, and they returned a few minutes later. I questioned her on it and she admitted she kissed him and they returned because I called. Upon further questioning she said this is the second time this happened this summer. She said that she recently developed feelings for him but only kissed him on 2 nights. I believe there was nothing more, but maybe I am being naïve.
> 
> We talked all that night and have been talking and crying a lot since. I am completely devastated, don’t sleep, no appetite, can’t think straight, and the worst part is I have lots of flashbacks of seeing them together. I believe she is truly sorry and feels terrible. She said she tried to cut it off after the first time kissing, but was somehow addicted to spending time with him and could not end it.
> 
> ...


You’re naive.

There’s more — a LOT more.

There always is.


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## happydad (Apr 11, 2016)

Charlie12 said:


> I am 42 and my wife of 12 years is 44. On Saturday night during a camping trip, I saw my wife sneak away at 2:00 am with one of my friends. I tried to find them with no luck, so I called him 10 minutes later, he didn’t answer, and they returned a few minutes later. I questioned her on it and she admitted she kissed him and they returned because I called. Upon further questioning she said this is the second time this happened this summer. She said that she recently developed feelings for him but only kissed him on 2 nights. I believe there was nothing more, but maybe I am being naïve.
> 
> We talked all that night and have been talking and crying a lot since. I am completely devastated, don’t sleep, no appetite, can’t think straight, and the worst part is I have lots of flashbacks of seeing them together. I believe she is truly sorry and feels terrible. She said she tried to cut it off after the first time kissing, but was somehow addicted to spending time with him and could not end it.
> 
> ...


Sorry Charlie, but I"m 99.9% sure it was or has been more than kissing. Somebody here will give you better advice but you need to keep digging and find out more. I read this as the first time he banged her she started crying and the second time he banged her she laughingly said this has to stop.


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

She's lying

Get her phone and look for apps.

Use Dr. Phone and retrieve deleted texts.

Retrieve her call/text history from the phone bill

You have been trickle truthed


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## Tex X (May 17, 2017)

She told you she kissed another man and you spent all night talking and crying with her. Sounds pretty weak and needy to me. Should have told her that you won't tolerate being treated like that, and if she wants to pursue life with Mr. Wonderful then have at it, but it will be as a single woman. Then STFU and walk away. Also - she works out and is in great shape, and you're average. Step up your game and get your ass to the gym ASAP.

I'd be willing to bet a couple of months ago when she told you she wasn't attracted to you that Mr. Wonderful was already hitting on her. Sounds like she's bored and only a matter of time for something more serious like PA to occur. Get your balls back and nip this thing in the bud now. You did the right thing by confronting him and telling him to not have any contact with your wife. Now make sure your wife knows you mean business. I agree with SunCMars - this isn't too out of hand yet, but it's up to you to get control of the situation like yesterday.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

You stated she's giving you full access to her phone. Did it have a passcode on it before? Also, since you have access take it and run recovery software ASAP because the texts she's deleted aren't stored forever and might tell a different story.


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## PigglyWiggly (May 1, 2018)

I am sorry for the pain you are feeling. I am sure your world is rocked and you don't know what to do. I don't see her sneaking off at 2 in the morning for a kiss but I hope that I am wrong. Keep digging.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

OK as usual on here I am sure this post will be hard to hear at first, but I am writing it because I feel bad for you but you need to stand up for yourself. I get it this sucks and is scary. But it's scary because the consequences are grave no matter what happens so better to be brave and face it head on then to let your fear dictate your actions. At least if you face it head on you will fell like you had some control over the situation. It's time to have courage. 

So here goes. 

She couldn't stop herself is bull****. She is not some child who have no control of her actions. She also wasn't tricked, any women with some character would see right though this guy. You keep babying her and I guarantee you she will do it again. Cheating is a willful action, their lips didn't just magnetically stick together. 

Don't assume you have the truth. I would at least ask her to give you a polygraph, mostly because if she is lying it's better to know now then 5 years from now. Cheaters lie that is what they do. She doesn't have the right to faith anymore. Plus it give her an idea of the gravity of the situation she is in. Often times this brings out what is call the parking lot confession which is when they are cornered they tell the truth. 

Well if it was me after reading hundreds of these stories, I would get divorce papers and have them on the table when she got home. Tell her you are strongly considering it. Tell her you are not sure if you can live with the uncertainly and you know you are a good husband and there is someone out there who wouldn't do this to you. Say you have loved her the best you could and after all that if she was willing to choose some alcoholic in some tent over that maybe you were just not meant to be. (difference is I would mean this part and you should think long an hard about that, this is who you are married to and who you are committing the rest of your life to. But I digress) Ask her why you should trust that this won't happen again. Most of all (and I can't stress this enough) tell her you need a better spouse. Do this even if you don't mean it just to scare the life out of her. Maybe the fear of her life blowing up and losing you forever will blow away the silly fantasy she has. Also she sleeps on the couch for the foreseeable future until she earns her way back into the bedroom. 

Maybe, just maybe that will work. One thing is for damn sure my wife would not be kissing one of my "friends ever again", not if she want's to be my wife. Oh and I would have taken him up on his offer. Sorry I know people think that is wrong but who cares. I probably would go punch him still. **** that guy, why is he even in your social circle. This is a good example as to when someone doesn't have character in their life don't assume they will when it comes to you. If they **** some other guys wife they will **** yours, "friend" or not. 

Any way you look at this she had a PA, even if it's just a kiss. It's a full blown affair, and you should not feel bad in seeing it that way. It sucks. Time will tell if she can she can change. She needs to really work hard though because something is wrong with her. If she doesn't you are not safe even if this is the thing you want most in your life. That's the thing this isn't about what you want it's about what is even possible. I mean this is a women who has no problem's kissing her husband's friend because "she can't help it". Not a good sign. Have her post on SurvivingInfidelity.com in the wayward section. She will get good advice with people who will hold her accountable and destroy her fantasy. 

As for you I would also stop with I'm just average crap. Never describe a married women who kisses another man as anything less then below average. Right now you are way above her league even if you are average, so what if she is good looking. You know how many good looking women there are in this world? Plus you found one you can find another. Believe that. Seriously let her go have her alcoholic boyfriend. Where do you think her life goes if you divorce her? From one alcoholic loser who doesn't give a **** about her to another. You are her life line and you act like she is doing YOU a favor. You need to get your head on straight. I am so tired of us men equating good looks to value. I get it we are all attracted to them, it's biological but their are probably hundreds of women a day who you see who you could be attracted to. It's not rare. Please stop and think about this. She has to have more to offer then looking good and holding a job. No one wants a cheater. Even cheaters don't want cheaters. Her value is very low right now. 

Again seeing yourself and her this way is a recipe to get cheated on. If you are down on yourself go get in shape, dress better. Whatever it takes, but stop romanticizing your wife. She needs life changing consequences or your intuition is correct, she will eventually do it again. She needs you SO MUCH more then you need her. This may be her only chance at a happy family life. She needs to see that and so do you. That will help you because right now you need to be strong, really strong. 

Also don't see a marriage counselor right now they will just make this all a problem of your marriage. It's not, there may be problems in your marriage but this is a problem of her character. She need to see a counselor, you can offer to go with her a few times but don't take ownership of her affair. That's just bull****. You were not the one kissing other people. 

Again if I could have you get anything from my post it would be -- you have loved her the best you could and after all that if she was willing to choose some alcoholic in some tent over that, over her family and kids, maybe she's just not marriage material. If this is your mindset you might have a chance, but either way you will do better. It's gonna hurt either way, that is a consequence of her choices, but don't stay with someone who disrespects you because of pain you are going to suffer no matter what. Also sucks that her parents didn't defend you at all. You sure she is worth the effort? YOU ARE THE CATCH! She needs to earn you back.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Andy1001 said:


> If someone kissed my so and then offered to let me punch him in the mouth he would be eating through a straw for the foreseeable future.
> And I would give considerable thought to throwing her ass out.
> If you truly believe it went no further than kissing on the two occasions that they have admitted to then then you may want to consider counseling.But you know what,if she was capable of sneaking off with the local ***** master while you were with her on the trip do you really believe it never went any further than kissing.


He wouldn't get to offer..


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

She is lying, and your poor me crying is going to make it worse. Time to man up and grow a set.


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

Charlie12 said:


> I confronted him the following morning and his story aligned with only kissing as well as other details. I do believe it was limited to that, but probably would have escalated in the near future.


Hey Charlie I've got the inside scoop on some primo beachfront property in southwest Arizona coming on the market soon. It's a real steal! Just wire me $50K and I'll hold some for ya.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

syhoybenden said:


> Hey Charlie I've got the inside scoop on some primo beachfront property in southwest Arizona coming on the market soon. It's a real steal! Just wire me $50K and I'll hold some for ya.


Back the **** off dude!
I’m selling a bridge in Brooklyn and I think Charlie is deserving of a chance to purchase it.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

sokillme said:


> Also don't see a marriage counselor right now they will just make this all a problem of your marriage. It's not, there may be problems in your marriage but this is a problem of her character.


Case in point:



Charlie12 said:


> she was intrigued by the bad boy in him
> Two months ago she told me she was no longer attracted to me and didn’t know what to do about it.


Sorry. The "don't know what to do about it" is a lie. She knows exactly what to do about it. A person of good moral character would have stopped this whole thing before it escalated to any "kissing". She knows that....She stood before God and witnesses and promised to NOT DO THIS. Gimme a break....don't know what to do ? Horse$hit....

The "no longer" is also a lie. She married you because she wanted what you CAN PROVIDE......not because she was attracted to you.....



Charlie12 said:


> We have 2 kids (7 & 10), we rarely fight, a beautiful home, weekend home, great vacations, nice cars, good jobs, money in the bank, healthy for the most part, and no real hardships.


If she is willing to "own" this, not blame it on you, and seek to "do the work" to make sure she qualifies for marriage and the vows she took, then, there might be a chance, in a year or two, that you could rebuild your marriage into one, that FOR YOU, is worth having.

Right now, she is meeting none of these criteria. "Remorseful" is yet to be seen. Come back after a year and tell me if she was "remorseful"....



sokillme said:


> she's just not marriage material.


Exactly.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Charlie if you really want to know if more happen than ask her if she is willing to take a polygraph to prove she is telling the truth and if she says can't you take my word you say you proved you lied to me the first time your trust bank is over drawn.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

I am always intreaded by the whole bad boy thing. If I was a different person I would say go get some strippers and blow and let her take care of the kids for a few months. Then she will love you right? It's a joke... But it makes a point. God it sucks to marry stupid people.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

This is not how one handles infidelity.

File
Tell her to get out.
Gray rock her.
Move on.

Take boxing classes so a man won’t have the nerve to offer a free shot to the face after he’s shagged your wife under your nose.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

sokillme said:


> go get some strippers and blow and let her take care of the kids for a few months. Then she will love you right?


Perfect..... I'm going to remember this one.....


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## Charlie12 (Sep 18, 2018)

I appreciate the tough messages, not good to hear, but necessary to keep me thinking clearly to make the best decision for my kids and me. I feel I need to have all information before making a decision. 

I took some of the constructive advice from this post:

1. I checked phone and text messages frequency on phone bill and her story aligns. She told me that she texted him the day after the first incident one time and asked if she could call so she could end it. Then she called him and talked for 13 minutes. Those were the only calls/texts to him over past few months.

2. She agreed to a Polygraph immediately after I asked.

3. I called her mom to see what she told her mom when she confided in her after the first event. She told her mom and me the same sequence of events...drunk, kissed, cried, left.


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## PigglyWiggly (May 1, 2018)

A polygraph....lol


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Charlie12 said:


> I appreciate the tough messages, not good to hear, but necessary to keep me thinking clearly to make the best decision for my kids and me. I feel I need to have all information before making a decision.
> 
> I took some of the constructive advice from this post:
> 
> ...


Hold her to the polygraph. Go talk to you lawyer, tell her you are going to talk to your lawyer. Make her sweat. Make the thought of being with him much less appealing then losing everything. And full on detach. Whatever happens you need to be strong enough that you will be fine no matter what. Make her earn you back or lose you.


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## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

I don't think she was ever attracted to you. If I were you I would also get DNA tests on all of the children.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

Charlie12 said:


> I appreciate the tough messages, not good to hear, but necessary to keep me thinking clearly to make the best decision for my kids and me. I feel I need to have all information before making a decision.
> 
> I took some of the constructive advice from this post:
> 
> ...


Ever heard of Snap Chat? Kik?
Drunk,kissed,cried,left? I am calling bull****. This imho was not her first rodeo.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Thing is if she tried to end it why did she go on a camping trip with the guy. Also what started it. There is more to this story.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Like Sokillme recommended, do the poly. At least you'll have something beyond their word that you can hang your hat on. Nevertheless, her saying she's no longer attracted to you is likely a real problem. When a woman loses romantic interest (aka attraction) it never comes back and she'll be vulnerable to these, "outside interest".


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

I recommend you tie a string on her.


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> Ever heard of Snap Chat? Kik?
> Drunk,kissed,cried,left? I am calling bull****. This imho was not her first rodeo.



Let's not forget WhatsApp, Words with Friends, .... hell every damned thing has got some ephemeral chat built into it nowadays. Good luck trying to ferret that out.

Oh, also, the secret burner phone.

You have spotted the merest tip of the iceberg.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

You're make the classic mistake a lot of men seem to make when it comes to their cheating wives - making tons of excuses for your wife's behavior because it's too painful to admit she did everything because she *WANTED* to.

You're trying to hang this on the guy she's been lusting after like he's a predator who overpowers married women and purposely destroys their marriages and it's something he does all the time. But here's the bottom line - was he holding a gun to her head when they came out of the woods? Were her hands or feet tied? Did you hear screaming for help when they disappeared 'just to kiss?' Did you hear her phony 'crying' like she *claims* happened the first time? Stop making excuses for her.

Your second nonsense excuse for her **** behavior is that it's YOUR fault because you apparently weren't giving Miss Thang the constant attention she needs and _deserves_. Oh brother.

Your third nonsense excuse is trying to blame it all on alcohol. Come on.

And your fourth nonsense excuse is that she has 'daddy issues' and had a rough childhood. Big damned deal. Lots of us had rough childhoods. So what.

The next classic mistake you're making is thinking that just because these two snakes both told you the same story - that it was _*'only kissing'*_ - that it MUST be true since they supposedly didn't have time to collaborate the fairy tale they both told you. 



> Their stories line up and they didn’t have time to corroborate.


Yes, they *did*. They had *plenty *of time.

I know this is all new to you and you sound pretty naive when it comes to knowing the true *levels* a cheater will stoop to in order to cover their own sorry asses, but if you think for one minute that these two weren't already collaborating their 'story' as they walked back out of the woods and back to the campsite - KNOWING they had a 50/50 chance *you'd be there waiting to confront them *- then I have oceanfront property in Kentucky I'd like to sell you.

Seriously. Stop being so naive.

Here's the bottom line. Your wife had no problem at all disrespecting you to lowest possible level. She had no problem running off into the woods with lover boy literally right under your nose. *That's *how much respect and regard she has for you. That's a fact, you can't deny it. So why on earth would you believe anything that comes out of her lying mouth? I find it highly amusing that she wants you to believe that there was "no sex involved" because she just has *way* too much respect for you and your marriage to EVER sink to that level. Yeah, sure she does. What a boatload of **** that is.

If you're smart, you'll get STD testing. Any woman *low* enough to crawl into the woods with some some scumbag literally right under her own husband's nose when he isn't looking is pretty much capable of sinking to ANY level. If you want to keep believing her bull**** lies about no sex and nonsense 'addiction' stories and claims of daddy issues, then have at it. But if you're SMART, you'll get STD testing. She's a *liar*.

I'll say it again - *stop being naive.*



> She said that after she kissed him the first time she started crying and asked him to take her home. The second time she said after she kissed him she told him this can’t happen again, then I called. She knew it was wrong but couldn’t stop herself. Alcohol was involved on both occasions, particularly the first. We party every weekend at our weekend home during the summer.


Know how you can tell when a cheater is lying? Their lips are moving. Her fairy tale is laughable.

Does this woman actually listen to the nonsense she spews in order to placate you? Her pitiful little fairy tale isn't even original. She's a walking cliche.

You're being *snowed*. Stop being naive. Seriously.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Charlie12 said:


> 2. She agreed to a Polygraph immediately after I asked.


Of course she said yes.

She doesn't believe for one single second anyone as passive and needy as you would EVER actually book one and make her take it. Hell, I don't believe you'd do it either and I don't even know you.

So it's extremely easy to say 'yes' when you know it's *never ever going to happen in this lifetime.*



> 3. I called her mom to see what she told her mom when she confided in her after the first event. She told her mom and me the same sequence of events...drunk, kissed, cried, left.


My mother was pretty much the dead LAST person on earth I'd *ever* brag about my dirty dealings to. Are you honestly trying to imply that just because she didn't want to tell her mother the truth and instead told her mother the same fairy tale she's been peddling to you, that her story must be the truth?

Oh man.


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

NEWS FLASH - the OM is not your friend.

First, at the very least, there should be absolutely zero contact with this man.
The man should never be included in any social activity that you attend.
Tell your 'friend' and everyone else in your social circle.
It's also a good test as to how deep their relationship really goes.

Second, she needs to stop drinking (no more social drinking). If she thinks drinking gives her a free pass, then the consequence is no more drinking. 

Although your initial 'understanding' response to her infidelity is pretty normal - it's not a strategy that will end the affair or save your marriage.
Your wife is lacking certain core values that will enable her to cheat again (and she will). You being understanding is unconsciously interpreted as giving her a free pass to do it again. You have to take strong action and give her consequences (not sympathy).

I can't tell you how often we hear "it was just kissing". It's called minimizing....and every cheater does it.
The tears are not a sign she's sorry for hurting you or cheating .... rather she's sorry you caught them.
If you didn't catch them she'd still be seeing him.

I DON"T CARE IF THE OTHER MAN IS A WOMANIZER OR DRINKER.
You sound like she's an innocent victim - and she's not.

Saying she couldn't help herself is a huge red flag. 
What is lacking in her that allows her to plan, lie, and sneak off with the OM?
Drinking is not an accuse (it's just convenient). 
Why can't she help herself? 
Why isn her marriage less important than sex with OM?
Why isn't the risk of loosing your love more important than sex with the OM?
Why is she willing to break your heart in order to have sex with the OM?


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

@Robert22205 has got it straight. Listen.


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

Put yourself in the shoes of the OM. Would you be satisfied with just kissing? Is the OM known for just kissing?
Do adults meet privately to just kiss? Does a single man meet privately in the woods with a married woman for just a kiss?

I'm sorry but there's a 99% chance that they are normal adults having sex. 

And like most men in this situation you're in denial and thinking: not my wife.
She's not capable of bending over grabbing a tree and humping like a dog in the woods.


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

Hold her to the poly


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## Charlie12 (Sep 18, 2018)

Robert, I appreciate your input. I agree with everything you said, except I believe she is sorry and remorseful. Tough to understand, why she didn't think of me and her kids and get help. I need to make the Polygraph happen soon. I'll get the ball rolling today.


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## PreRaph (Jun 13, 2017)

Dear Charlie12: Read She'sStillGotIt's post word for word and memorize it.



She'sStillGotIt said:


> You're make the classic mistake a lot of men seem to make when it comes to their cheating wives - making tons of excuses for your wife's behavior because it's too painful to admit she did everything because she *WANTED* to.
> 
> You're trying to hang this on the guy she's been lusting after like he's a predator who overpowers married women and purposely destroys their marriages and it's something he does all the time. But here's the bottom line - was he holding a gun to her head when they came out of the woods? Were her hands or feet tied? Did you hear screaming for help when they disappeared 'just to kiss?' Did you hear her phony 'crying' like she *claims* happened the first time? Stop making excuses for her.
> 
> ...


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Charlie12 said:


> Robert, I appreciate your input. I agree with everything you said, except I believe she is sorry and remorseful. Tough to understand, why she didn't think of me and her kids and get help. I need to make the Polygraph happen soon. I'll get the ball rolling today.


No way, considering you know she did it TWICE that you KNOW of, and very unlikely it's just twice.
You are on HOPIUM as another TAM member calls it. You're HOPING she's remorseful. You're HOPING she still loves you.
I was on the hopium bigtime a few years ago. It's bad stuff. Probably the worst drug I've ever been on.

I suggest you don't get addicted. It will alter your perception of reality as it's clearly doing here. Detach and get to the point you can look at the situation without your love goggles on.

Sorry you're going through this. But you'll never get out until you change your thinking.


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## Charlie12 (Sep 18, 2018)

Polygraph scheduled for Friday at 12:30. Well worth the $399.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Charlie:
"1. I checked phone and text messages frequency on phone bill and her story aligns. She told me that she texted him the day after the first incident one time and asked if she could call so she could end it. Then she called him and talked for 13 minutes. Those were the only calls/texts to him over past few months

I HOPE that she did this call RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU and that you heard every word. If not, she is lying and they were getting their story straight.

He needs to be 100% cut out of your/wife's social life -- NO CONTACT AT ALL. You need to be very vigilant here and watch this -- they WILL find ways to contact each other.

Search the house for burner phones. Get yourself some VAR's (Voice Activated Recorders) and put them in her car, around the house where she would likely go to have a conversation about this. 

Talk to ALL of her friends and find out who knew about this -- blow this up and expose it to everyone.
I think the suggestion that you are going to talk with a lawyer is a good one -- you SHOULD do this, just to find out what the possible outcomes could be, and will also show her how serious you are about this.

Please try to remember, no matter how much you WANT it to be otherwise, she is minimizing and gaslighting you. She is lying to cover her ass.

You need to protect YOURSELF and your kids first and foremost. Get yourself to a gym (or other physical exercise) to help cope with all of this stress.

Very sorry you are going through this.


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## cashcratebob (Jan 10, 2018)

Polygraph; expect a parking lot confession. 

She is telling the lie that she believes is easy to stomach by you and her mother. BTW, as She'sStillGotIt is implying, they had plenty of time to corroborate there stories...meaning there was plenty of time for other things. That fact that their stories corroborate so well tells me that HE IS CONTROLLING HER...and she is allowing the control. He's done this before and he knows how to play the game. But because it is too "neat" is reeks of lies!


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

I hope she's telling the truth. I'm sorry this has happened to you. None of this is your fault...you don't deserve this **** sandwich.

It's typical for a cheater to initially respond by bluffing and agreeing to a polygraph test (why? because it gives them time to 'think' ). 

Often a polygraph test extracts a parking lot confession (so be prepared to hear a last minute confession). It's helps to let them know that a confession in advance is better for them (and your marriage) than failing the test.

I suggest you have your wife write out a detailed time line of every contact (and conversation) with the OM that ultimately escalated to 'kissing'. Dates, times, places, what was discussed, who else knew (did any other 'friends' know), did anyone see them sneaking off or returning from the woods? Note, anyone that knew about them is not your friend.

Who suggested they meet privately and what exact words were used?
Were they always drinking when in contact or were they 'dry' conversations?
Did she ever meet him for coffee or lunch or just to talk someplace?
And was it agreed in advance they were just going to kiss ....or was it an open ended let's get together in the woods?
Did they exchange on pictures?

The reason to extract the details is that the 'exposure' destroys her little fantasy that this was an innocent fun harmless fling that didn't hurt anyone.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Camping trips must be rife with infidelity. I remember reading a story almost completely identical to this somewhere else awhile back. I mean, even the campfire, the going away for awhile....almost all of it. Exactly the same.

More reasons for me not to go camping!


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

I am a woman and I think your response is very very weak and will not stop her from doing this again when the fancy takes her.
Remember all cheaters lie and of course she is lying about the extent of what has happened and of course blamed you for not giving her attention. What about coming to you and saying 'husband you work too much and you know I really feel neglected, can we do something about this?" that is what a good wife does, she is not a good wife nor mother.

You need to go scorched earth, you should not be jumping through any hoops, she should to prove to you that she is worthy of keeping as a wife!

1. she must write a no contact letter
2. tell your friends and family what has happened, expose both of them, this will keep them accountable
3. no more spending weekends with the OM
4. She must go to IC to find out why she is willing to blow up her marriage
5. You will start doing the 180, this should not be rug swept, she has to work hard to win you back, no more weak responses
6. Go see a lawyer, see what your options are and tell her that you will make up your mind whether you want her or not, when someone shows you who they are believe them the first time. She said she is no longer attracted to you, act as if you believe her, no chasing after her, 180 will help you detach. Let her see what she stands to lose over a drunk!


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## MyRevelation (Apr 12, 2016)

Charlie12 said:


> Polygraph scheduled for Friday at 12:30. Well worth the $399.


I'd be interested to know how your WW takes the news that the poly has actually been scheduled. Watch her response closely and DO NOT let her talk you out of it. If you hold strong on this, the next 50 hours will likely be very enlightening for you.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

So when the polygraph pegs the needle and breaks when the Polygrapher asks her if she had sex with the drunken camper and she says no, What are you gonna do?

Rugsweep, Forgive her and reconcile immediately?
Divorce her?
Divorce her and forgive her?

Just curious.

Have the polygrapher ask these two questions: Have you ever had sex with the drunken camper while married?
Have you ever had sex with any other man than your husband while married?

I'll bet she fails both quetions.


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## mickybill (Nov 29, 2016)

Good to book the poly Charlie.

DO NOT tell that you scheduled the poly until you are with her in the car going to it.
Telling her beforehand will give her time to prep, or get sick or "sorry, can't go, something came up".

And since you booked the poly you should also book STD tests for both of you. She might be new at this but the OM is a known 
player, most likely has sidepieces for years and rarely uses condoms. It also will let her know how serious you are taking it.

She said that she has developed feelings for him, how long has she had these feeling, contact just on camping trip or back home as well? For how long? months? years?

To go a little deeper, has he been in your social circle forever? Should you DNA the kids?


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

I have been trying to find a way to respond to this and most of it has already been said on what is REALLY going on, in terms of what you don't know about and what is going on in her mind but in each one of these posts I see a little of my own case.

Maybe if I were to offer something up, that might be of use to help understand a mindset that makes no sense is this.

EW and I were together 17 years, 2 wonderful kids, financially healthy, built a new house in 2014, devoted to the Church, etc. I dedicated my life to being there for my wife and kids. I worked a lot but when something was important, I dropped what i was doing and put her first. I certainly put her before me (which was part of the issue I realize now). I was her rock and she took advantage of that, she used my shoulder quite a bit so I thought over dynamic was one that would last given the foundation but there were cracks all along, that's not important to this.

What's important to this and so hard to understand, is the act of cheating itself is so much less important than what comes after. You think once your wife cheats, they will do what they can to win your trust back, the loyalty. No, what happens in a lot of these cases, is the 17 years gets thrown out the window real quick and the loyalty is no longer to you but what the chemicals in her brain are telling her to do, to go where it feels (in the moment) the best. This will create lies upon lies, things you could never imagine someone you shared your life with to do. I was willing to forgive the cheating, what she did afterward with her actions, her words and abandonment of everything we had built together in terms of a foundation was 10x more despicable. 

Keep your foot to the pedal with pressing that she come clean and she puts in the work to save this marriage. If she can do that, your time to make up for what you thought you lacked, can come after but that won't work now unfortunately. Nice-ing her back will actually have the opposite affect, strange as it seems. If she's not met with real consequences now, she may reach a point of no return, even if she doesn't know it yet. In a lot of these cases, the Wayward Spouse does make an attempt to come back into the marriage but they soon have this empty hole in them that the feel good feelings provided and they want to go back for just a pebble, they need that and think there's nothing wrong and then it starts all over again and the reconciliation counter gets set back to 0 each time she talks to him.

Hoping the best for you and your family!


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Someone else asked what I had wondered too, were you present for that 13 MINUTE PHONE CALL?? Seriously, 13 minutes to say this is done, you are not to contact me any more?? 

Not taking blame off your wife at all, but this predator needs to be removed permanently from your friend circle. Why he was allowed in in the first place is beyond me, I mean if YOU knew about him then surely others did as well? 

The fact that she went to him more than once does not bode well. I will be anxious to find out if she passes that poly in regards to if there was more than kissing. (which would surprise me if so) If she does, then MAYBE there is a chance that you two can work this out, but she has to put in the work and full transparency, and YOU have to not accept the blame for this like you seem to be doing. Even if you really were having issues to where she felt you were ignoring her, there is ZERO excuse for turning to someone outside the marriage the way she did, and that is fully on her and her alone.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

personofinterest said:


> Camping trips must be rife with infidelity. I remember reading a story almost completely identical to this somewhere else awhile back. I mean, even the campfire, the going away for awhile....almost all of it. Exactly the same.
> 
> More reasons for me not to go camping!


I've been camping all my life and I expect there's a lot more screwing going on during lunch time during work than in campgrounds. If you want to get laid, my recommendation is an adult resort. Of course I go to get away from rather than be near my "friends". The thing is that regardless were you are, when your spouse and somebody elses spouse want to take a walk together, you've got problems.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Charlie12 said:


> Polygraph scheduled for Friday at 12:30. Well worth the $399.


If you give her advanced warning on poly start checked Internet history, phone browsing history and you'll probably find searches on beating the tests.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Charlie have you told your so called friend to never call or set foot in your life?


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

SentHereForAReason said:


> What's important to this and so hard to understand, is the act of cheating itself is so much less important than what comes after. You think once your wife cheats, they will do what they can to win your trust back, the loyalty. No, what happens in a lot of these cases, is the 17 years gets thrown out the window real quick and the loyalty is no longer to you but what the chemicals in her brain are telling her to do, to go where it feels (in the moment) the best. This will create lies upon lies, things you could never imagine someone you shared your life with to do. I was willing to forgive the cheating, what she did afterward with her actions, her words and abandonment of everything we had built together in terms of a foundation was 10x more despicable.


I hate to tell you this my man but she's already put the marriage in the "low interest" file before she laid down with another man. Men can continue believe that they set the standard for the exercise of fidelity because they are loyal, devoted, supportive, et cetera, and their spouse is to be committed to them and the marriage because of it, ain't exactly the reality. Here is the proper sequence of events.

1. Find a quality chick you like that thinks you hung the moon and the best thing that ever happened to her. (quality doesn't mean "hot". You want a chick that's slightly better looking than you. Most importantly, you're looking for good wiring and well functioning plumbing, if you know what I mean)

2. You become loyal, devoted, and supportive.

3. Hope she'll love you forever but remember that if forever ends, she'll be gone.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Charlie on a separate note can i ask something that has been bugging me, when setting up this camping trip, did wife say to you...your friend should not come....or your friend say to you that he was thinking of not coming? the reason why i ask is because you mention that your wife felt sick after kissing him the first time, why would she put herself in that position to met him up again at a remote camp site.


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## Charlie12 (Sep 18, 2018)

A couple reoccurring questions.

1. The events happened at a resort style Campground we spend most weekends at. We both have places and he is in the same circle of friends. We did not invite him to go on a camping trip with us as it may have sounded. 

2. The 13 minute call occurred 5 weeks ago, the day after the first event. So I was not involved in this conversation as I was not aware this was going on. When I asked her if she made any calls or texts to him she said, 1 text and 1 call the day after it happened. She said the purpose of the call was to tell him this can't happen again.

3. I told him to avoid all contact with both of us. Continuing friendship does not even cross my mind.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Thank you for clarifying about the phone call.


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

One Eighty said:


> I think a lot of people posting on this thread are overly skeptical of the veracity of the WS in this case and therefore also overly hard on Charlie.
> 
> Sure we have all seen how BSs come here and are totally being lied to by their WSs. Many of us, myself included, have trusted our marriage partners FAR too much. It is by far THE most common thing we see here and so I do understand the skepticism. However, there is going to be the occasional WS that tells the truth and comes clean. This looks like one such example to me.
> 
> I think we should not assume that Charlie is being gullible. He knows her better than we do. He is getting the polygraph to make sure.


I think there can be assumptions based upon cookie cutter situations and they get cookie cutter responses. However, I think he got the responses he did from the Vets because there were a few red flags in his own behavior or reactions that invoked them. Blaming himself for one, that shows compassion and it's the same thing I did but it's also something if dwelled upon for too long can harm him because he's not the real cause of her actions.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

SentHereForAReason said:


> I think there can be assumptions based upon cookie cutter situations and they get cookie cutter responses. However, I think he got the responses he did from the Vets because there were a few red flags in his own behavior or reactions that invoked them. Blaming himself for one,* that shows compassion *and it's the same thing I did but it's also something if dwelled upon for too long can harm him because he's not the real cause of her actions.


Sorry brother, wrong. It, (in bold above), shows inexperience, it shows gullibility, and it shows weakness. 

That is all that is shows. What happens to you (general you) the first time that this happens to you, hopefully the only time, is that you don't know what the F to do. 

So you make all the mistakes that OP did and is doing. 

10 minutes is long enough for a quickie for most men, which IMHO is what happened here. 

But more than that, when she said the she was no longer attracted to him, that is when the affair started, so that would be what 2 to 4 months?

Yeah, my guess is that they have been screwing for a while now. That is why they could not wait until the OP was asleep to go screw. 

Now, if his wife is telling the truth, then maybe they can reconcile, maybe not. 

But if it has been going on a while, I don't know, I would not even try. 

Hopefully OP is not so weak as to accept this, but who knows...


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## Charlie12 (Sep 18, 2018)

A couple other points:
1. I don't blame myself, I blame her, and she has taken full responsibility. I mentioned I was not as involved as I should have been, but that does not justify her actions.
2. She has taken responsibility and is remorseful. She feels like a horrible person. She can not understand why she put so much at risk for a loser.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Charlie, I think you need to check more -- you don't "develop feelings" because they kissed two times. This has been going on longer that you think


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

MyRevelation said:


> I'd be interested to know how your WW takes the news that the poly has actually been scheduled. Watch her response closely and DO NOT let her talk you out of it. If you hold strong on this, the next 50 hours will likely be very enlightening for you.


Me too!

Tell her you have a surprise for her, get in the can, drive to the parking lot for the poly, then say, "Here we are, the polly you agreed to. Anything you tell me now will get special consideration, anything I find out through the poly will end our marriage".

We call that a parking lot confession.


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## mickybill (Nov 29, 2016)

Hey Charlie-

I think that you are doing a good job all things considered, and are leaning more to reconciliation than divorce.

But before you forgive her for her affair you need to know what you are forgiving. In your first post she said that she had feelings for the man that now is called a loser. What kind of feelings, for how long? Days, months or years? How far did it go. Two separate make out sessions and a 13 minute "goodbye" phone call could be just the beginning. 

Right now she in the severe cover her ass mode.

Ask the right questions at the Poly!
I think they limit to about 4 questions that they ask in different ways to get the reading.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Be aware many cheaters give a fake confession before a poly to avoid the test. No matter what she says go through with the poly. 

Get her and yourself an STD test. Not only is it necessary, it drives home the gravity of the problem. What she has done has negated all the trust you have ever had in her. Therefore you have to DNA your children. More proof to her she has screwed the pooch. Plus you need to have no doubts.

She has given you the “I love you but not in over with you speech.” Everything she has done is right out of the fabled cheaters handbook. Read many more threads, especially the longer ones. We could almost write the details out for you. 

Has your sex life changed in the last few years? 

The most important thing to remember is the lying. All cheaters get really good at lying. If there is a thread here where the cheater didn’t lie I can’t remember one and I have been here awhile. So, I don’t think there is a snowball’s chance in hell they haven’t had sex. 

Thirteen minutes to say no more? More BS. Thirteen seconds would work. Thirteen minutes would be enough to set up a date, a story, an alibi, brag, talk about how hot they are together etc.

Bottom line, she says she doesn’t love you like a husband, she does find a drunk atttactive, and she admits to making out with him. Stats say 85% of men divorce over that.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Yes. Do NOT cancel the poly just because she gives you some truth crumbs.

No one goes from no feelings to feelings like THIS over two random kisses. At the very least their had to have been an EA already in the works.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Charlie12 said:


> A couple other points:
> 1. I don't blame myself, I blame her, and she has taken full responsibility. I mentioned I was not as involved as I should have been, but that does not justify her actions.
> 2. She has taken responsibility and is remorseful. She feels like a horrible person. She can not understand why she put so much at risk for a loser.


Just to clarify a couple of terminology things. She is not remorseful, not in the slightest. It is a fine point much debated, but she is not remorseful. 

When a cheater is actually remorseful, they actually feel some of the pain that the betrayed spouse feels. 

It may not seem like a bid deal, as you are still naïve and a bit in shock and denial, but it is. 

When they are remorseful you will know it, right now you do not know the difference. 

In general, do you fell like you are starting to understand all the mistakes that you have made so far and are you prepared to changing that, or do you just not get it still????


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

@Charlie12 ,
You mentioned the OM matching her story (just kissing) with no time to corroborate. They don't need time to corroborate. Kissing is the bottom of the scale of "infidelity violations" maybe short of holding hands which sounds absurdly grade school, so kissing is the auto default for the minimization that *ALL* cheaters do. You never get the whole story right up front, it's unheard of. 
Kissing is the most reasonable thing they think you will forgive. Since they did so much more, in their minds the "just kissing" (notice "just", more minimization) is no big deal they have desensitized their minds to that being something bad and assume you feel the same way. It's standard fare on this and other infidelity sites to just swap the word "screwing" for kissing, it's an extremely good bet and has played out 100s if not 1000s of times.




personofinterest said:


> Camping trips must be rife with infidelity. I remember reading a story almost completely identical to this somewhere else awhile back. I mean, even the campfire, the going away for awhile....almost all of it. Exactly the same.
> 
> More reasons for me not to go camping!


 I remember that thread as well. It was just left hanging with no update or ending.
I expect the camping thing a frequent scenario because of friends and alcohol. The party liquor lubes 'em up and the fact that they are with friends gets past the 'getting to know ya" bit. ****ty friends.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Charlie12 said:


> A couple other points:
> 1. I don't blame myself, I blame her, and she has taken full responsibility. I mentioned I was not as involved as I should have been, but that does not justify her actions.
> 2. *She has taken responsibility and is remorseful*. She feels like a horrible person. She can not understand why she put so much at risk for a loser.


What actions has she taken to demonstrate she has accepted responsibility? Why NOW?
What actions has she shown that demonstrate remorse?

You say she feels like a horrible person. She may SAY that... You have no other evidence that she does feel badly about it. I can assure you tears are misleading, and so are words. Actions........
She put so much at risk because she WANTED to, and because she didn't think there would be consequences. So far there haven't been.

You need to file for divorce. You need to detach. You may not need to divorce. You can end the proceedings at any time. But you need to file. 
I'm sure you won't listen. You are in too weak of a state of mind. But that has been shown to be effective to help plant a seed of thought in some wayward spouses mind about actions, continued actions, and actual consequences.

She needs to start worrying about losing YOU, and you need to STOP worrying about her. It's hard. But it's what needs to happen if you ever expect a successful reconciliation. It's likely that if you give it some time, you may not want to reconcile. If you keep trying to nice her back, you won't have the opportunity.


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

Charlie12....I think there's a good chance she's innocent (lacking boundaries, stupid and selfish - but innocent). In any event, if you chose to stay with her, she has a lot of work to do (reading and IC) to answer the questions I raised earlier. Don't let her get away with tears and " I don't know how I could ...."

Best or luck. Keep checking in often. Sharing and our combined experience gives us strength.
You're not alone!


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Robert22205 said:


> Charlie12....I think there's a good chance she's innocent (lacking boundaries, stupid and selfish - but innocent). In any event, if you chose to stay with her, she has a lot of work to do (reading and IC) to answer the questions I raised earlier. Don't let her get away with tears and " I don't know how I could ...."
> 
> Best or luck. Keep checking in often. Sharing and our combined experience gives us strength.
> You're not alone!


If a good chance is one better than getting hit by a meteor, struck by lightning, and stabbed in the heart by a stingray-- all in the same day---- I'll agree.

Otherwise, I think the chance she has had sex with the guy is over 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999%.


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

If she passes the polygraph test (and/or you chose to stay with her), among other things you need to sell the weekend house (since the OM/POS owns a place there). Get her away from weekend parties and drinking - and NC ever in any way with the OM.

Also....when she confided the first kiss with her mom and 2 friends, what did each person say to her???

Who are her friends (same age and marital status, co workers, neighbors, church, friends from HS)?

Does your wife ever have a girls night out or go out after work without you?


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Charlie my man, tell me you didn't have to twist her arm and stand guard to make sure she hangs with the "no contact" agreement.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

My money is on she does not really think you are really going to follow through on the poly. Be ready for a parking lot confession.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Charlie12 said:


> A couple other points:
> 1. I don't blame myself, I blame her, and she has taken full responsibility. I mentioned I was not as involved as I should have been, but that does not justify her actions.
> 2. She has taken responsibility and is remorseful. She feels like a horrible person. She can not understand why she put so much at risk for a loser.


She IS a horrible person right now. DO NOT TREAT HER LIKE YOU ARE HER FATHER AND SHE DIDN'T KNOW ANY BETTER, TREAT HER LIKE YOU ARE ADULT PEERS. So often you guys who get cheated on all see your wives as kids, and your wives are all cunning sneaky lying jerks who take advantage of it. Besides that it talks SO MUCH balls to stab someone in the back and the cry to them because you did it. Your wife basically was a total **** to you. There is a very good chance she is lying about all of this. That is how she deserves to be treated until she can somehow make it up to you. If that is possible. 

Besides all that a marriage is an agreement between peers not a parent child relationship. If you set up that kind of dynamic it will have the same kind of rebellion and acting out that children do with parents. It's not healthy. What would you do if a peer stabbed you in the back? Would you cry with them and feel sorry for them? Same for your wife.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Charlie12 said:


> A couple other points:
> 1. I don't blame myself, I blame her, and she has taken full responsibility. I mentioned I was not as involved as I should have been, but that does not justify her actions.
> 2. She has taken responsibility and is remorseful. She feels like a horrible person. *She can not understand why she put so much at risk for a loser.*


Until she figures that out, and addresses it to your satisfaction, with some serious therapy, never trust her again.

Most likely, she will flail and claim she doesn't know, and not put any effort into figuring it out at all.

Seeing what actions she chooses to take of her own initiative will be some necessary information before you decide how you want to proceed.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Charlie12 said:


> Tough to understand, why she didn't think of me and her kids and get help. I need to make the Polygraph happen soon. I'll get the ball rolling today.


Dude I got to say it. She didn't think of you because she wanted the guy. It was fun exciting, full of lust and danger. It's like a naughty romance novel or something. She wanted it more then she cared about how it would affect you, the marriage or her family. By the way she knows this too she just knows it's to terrible to say out loud. When she is really sorry she will say this, in fact that is how you know she gets it. That means you knowing the truth is more important then her feeling the pain of the shame she feels. 

That is brutally honest and I know it sucks. I am sorry to have to say it. But it's also the truth and the sooner you get it the better. The people who come up with these elaborate excuses like, my dog ate my pie when I was 12. People who desperately hold onto them, clinging for dear life, as a way to avoid how ****ty it is, who don't want to have to deal with how just piss poor and awful it is. Those people don't heal because deep down they know they are lying to themselves. You can see that they are driving themselves crazy trying to believe that the earth is flat. 

The terribly painful truth is, she met an attractive guy (she likes ****ty men who tell her she is hot) who told her she is hot, she was tempted and she failed miserably. She discarded you and her family like garbage to feel those feelings. 

That's it. 

Again I am sorry, but someone needs to be the **** and say it. It's terribly painful but rip the band-aid off in one yank get it all over at once. The sooner you morn the truth of it the sooner you will really heal. Eventually you are going to get there because you can't help it. That is where it was always going to go. 

Now there is probably any number of reasons why her boundaries are not good. Also she obviously doesn't know herself enough to know how to fight against her temptation. She also needs to decide what kind of person she wants to be. What are her priorities. Those are all things she needs to work very hard on. 

If you stay together, now that you have a sense that she is attracted to this kind of guy you can work on giving her some of that. She probably liked his assertiveness. You can work on that, you can be more assertive about your attraction to her. 

But frankly now is not the time to think about that. First off she needs to be contrite and truly sorry, but that is not a reason to take her back, it's only one of the conditions. She needs to be truthful about what she did and most importantly who she is. You do too. She needs to make an Olympian life time commitment to change the things in her that allowed her to do this. Not the fact that she was attracted, the fact that she acted on it. And you need to morn, you need to accept who your wife really is, maybe you need to figure out if you are codependent and have let her bully you (this happens a lot). Finally you should figure out what your quality of life will be like going forward, a life with who she really is and what she did. Do you want to live like that. All of that takes time.


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## Dawghoused (Mar 24, 2018)

Seems like there is no mistake of that guy. your wife is attracted to him. So you should talk to your wife and tell her to don't ruin your marriage for a temporary guy. Ask her to forget what happened in the past and never repeat it again and also stop meeting that man.


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## Dawghoused (Mar 24, 2018)

It seems like that man doesn't have feelings for your wife. But your wife is attracted to him. So you need to convince your wife to stop all this to save your marriage. Tell her to forget the past and never repeat this again and also stop meeting that guy.


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

sokillme said:


> *Dude I got to say it. She didn't think of you because she wanted the guy. It was fun exciting, full of lust and danger. It's like a naughty romance novel or something. She wanted it more then she cared about how it would affect you, the marriage or her family.* By the way she knows this too she just knows it's to terrible to say out loud. When she is really sorry she will say this, in fact that is how you know she gets it. That means you knowing the truth is more important then her feeling the pain of the shame she feels.
> 
> That is brutally honest and I know it sucks. I am sorry to have to say it. But it's also the truth and the sooner you get it the better. The people who come up with these elaborate excuses like, my dog ate my pie when I was 12. People who desperately hold onto them, clinging for dear life, as a way to avoid how ****ty it is, who don't want to have to deal with how just piss poor and awful it is. Those people don't heal because deep down they know they are lying to themselves. You can see that they are driving themselves crazy trying to believe that the earth is flat.
> 
> ...


The Bolded is spot on but if you are looking for any sort of logic, which I did for over a year. For one, there is no real logic in these situations but to give you some insight on how it's even possible someone you knew for so long and trusted could 'not think about the kids', which is the common question betrayed spouses have. It's even deeper and more problematic than they wanted the other person so much and their feelings took over, it's actually that in some fashion, they have justified it in there heads that this is ok and the longer it goes on, the more their brains work on the justification process and this is where the blame-shifting comes into play. The justification will result in projecting onto the betrayed spouse what they did 'wrong' and caused them to do something like this. Doesn't make sense to a sound mind but a sound mind is not quite what cheaters have.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I missed something. Is she now telling you she is back n love with you and she wants to stay married? Did she drop to her knees crying and slinging snot begging to stay married and how much she realizes she does love you?

All I see is she said she no longer loves you and wants to bang other men. Case closed.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

SentHereForAReason said:


> The Bolded is spot on but if you are looking for any sort of logic, which I did for over a year. For one, there is no real logic in these situations but to give you some insight on how it's even possible someone you knew for so long and trusted could 'not think about the kids', which is the common question betrayed spouses have. It's even deeper and more problematic than they wanted the other person so much and their feelings took over, it's actually that in some fashion, they have justified it in there heads that this is ok and the longer it goes on, the more their brains work on the justification process and this is where the blame-shifting comes into play. The justification will result in projecting onto the betrayed spouse what they did 'wrong' and caused them to do something like this. Doesn't make sense to a sound mind but a sound mind is not quite what cheaters have.


I don't think they lose their minds. I think the abandon their morals, if they have them. Their are people who believe that even if they are miserable in their marriage that doesn't give them the right to brake their promise and have an affair. Actually this is why making divorce a taboo is wrong because if you are miserable in your marriage you should leave it.


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

sokillme said:


> I don't think they lose their minds. I think the abandon their morals, if they have them. Their are people who believe that even if they are miserable in their marriage that doesn't give them the right to brake their promise and have an affair. Actually this is why making divorce a taboo is wrong because if you are miserable in your marriage you should leave it.


They abandon their morals but even the worst of the worst situations with cheaters, where the Wayward is literally a low life, even they find ways in their mind for justification, reasons that make no absolute sense for anyone with a 1/4 of a brain. My cousin went through the same thing I did, just 3 months down the line from when mine started. His EW didn't even hide it, almost flaunted it but still justified why she did it, with 6-10 reasons to make herself feel better.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

One of my clients encountered a similar situation. His wife wanted to experience the danger and the exhilaration that came with a secret rendezvous. She did not want to have sex, but wanted the romance. Luckily or unluckily for her, it was discovered before it progressed to sex. This happened in a work environment, and my client heard the bull about the excitement and how it blinded her, and how he should just forgive and move on, as it meant nothing at all. He is not that kind of guy. She walked into her office one morning shortly after the discovery to see the guy she had her little tryst with being marched out. As he passed her, he spit at her. Said in the middle of the office, "I didn't get to **** you and I lose my goddamned job because of you. F**K you and F**K your husband." She was told by security not to go to her desk. She was similarly discharged that day. She returned home to find her husband awaiting her. He told her that was one of the prices she would pay, and then he said: "I will not pay you back in kind now, but at some point, you will experience what I did." He intends, not to do this, but he wants it in the back of her mind." She will not look for another job, as she is monitoring him to the nth degree, and knows that she brought this on herself. He tells me that she went from being mouthy and stubborn to being a *****cat and wanting to know where he is, minute to minute. Guess the mental cruelty will last a few months. I have warned him that this can backfire, but......

PS, it still kind of sets off alarm bells that she disappeared and it was only a kiss. Blindside the crap out of her, let her think you are going out to a movie, and then arrive at the testing center and tell her that this is her opportunity to set the record straight. Bet there will be a parking lot confession.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2017)

Charlie12, remember she disappeared with this guy. Not good. By the way, did you check for a burner phone?


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Charlie

I’m a little late here but I question much of what you have posted. There is more, but then again I’m jaded, so take that for what it’s worrh. You’re wife wasn’t attracted to you, do not allow her to say or use this as an excuse. The only reason she wasn’t attracted to you is because of new love. Something you are unable to compete with. I’d say something like this, “you aren’t attracted to me because you have secretly fallen in love with someone else. While you fell in love you singlehandedly destroyed a marriage, a spouse, and possibly two children’s lives for an alcoholic. You have some arrogance within you to say you aren’t attracted to myself to justify your ****tish actions in your head”. Clearly she wasn’t thinking, but her decision making skills need a huge amount of work in therapy. 

Next, the polygraph, do not tell her the questions you will ask. Questions must be yes or no, nothing more. It’s better if you can keep the wording to a minimum also. In your case I would not ask about just the alcoholic, or affair partner THAT YOU KNOW OF! That’s correct Charlie, do not think this may have been the only guy. Furthermore she needs to know you now question your entire marriage. Questions I would ask are as following;

Do you love alcoholic? 
Have you kissed anyone intimately, other then me, while married? If yes, who.
Have you had sex while married to anyone but me? If yes, who.
The questions are direct, not leading to speculation. Be harsh in your questions.

The last is remorse, just because she feels bad and is crying doesn’t mean she’s remorseful. My wife felt terrible and cried too, didn’t mean she was remorseful either. Have you wondered why she feels terrible and is crying? Do you think it’s because her side relationship is over? Because she got caught? Now comes something that you are going to have a real hard time with, she will grieve for the alcoholic. Even more astonishing is that you have to give her time to grieve for a relationship she never should have had. If you both choose to reconcile I recommend you study that animal very well. Know what she must do, what you must do, and decide about six months from now. I also advise you to file for divorce, and six months from now decide to reconcile or not. Filing gives your wife a consequence, you don’t lose time if you decide to divorce, or you can call the divorce off. Right now you aren’t really able to see all that’s in front of you, you’re in protection mode. So decide in six months on what you will do. This is also a consequence. Whatever you do, you must protect your kids and yourself, your wife can take care of herself.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Does anyone think it takes 13 mins to say " I should not have kissed you and we can never do that again"?

Plus she admitted to one text and one phone call after round one. If that is true how was round two scheduled? Because a 2:00 AM meeting was planned.

Charlie, does your wife have a job?

Please tell me all weekend trips are off.

Her saying that she is no longer attracted to you should have been your cue to open the door for her. Tell her to go find what makes her happy - just don't come back to your home after she leaves.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Charlie12 said:


> She has taken responsibility and is remorseful. She feels like a horrible person. She can not understand why she put so much at risk for a loser.


I think she has a good value-system and is likely to work through her issues which made her do this. If she continues on this path, she will be a candidate for a complete reconciliation, and a restoration, of her marriage.



sokillme said:


> She needs to make an Olympian life time commitment to change the things in her that allowed her to do this. Not the fact that she was attracted, the fact that she acted on it.


This ^^^^^^^.

It's impossible for any of us to go through life and never "be attracted" to someone other than our spouse. But it is not impossible for us to go through life and never act upon that attraction.

That's what we promise to do in marriage. It seems that your wife understands how her behavior <> her promise.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

TJW said:


> I think she has a good value-system and is likely to work through her issues which made her do this. If she continues on this path, she will be a candidate for a complete reconciliation, and a restoration, of her marriage.


I would be very careful not to mistake words for actions. Only the most militant cheaters don't say this kind of stuff when they are caught in an affair. She needs to do the work. I would also not be surprised if there is more to this story then she is telling him. OP I suggest you wait if you are unsure right now.


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## scaredlion (Mar 4, 2017)

During my military career I knew of a soldier, who came home from deployment, and discovered his wife had had a 6 month affair. She, of course was so sorry and very remorseful. She didn't want a divorce because she loved her husband and didn't know why she had done such a terrible thing. She cried and begged for another chance. Since the soldier did, in fact, love his wife and didn't want to break up his family, he gave her that second chance and would not divorce her....on a slight condition. He told her she now owed him a six month affair with another woman. He might have the affair in a year from now, or five years from now, or 10 years, or he may NEVER have the affair. It would all depend on her and how their marriage progressed from that point on. It had been several years before I saw him again. His marriage was going great and he had, so far, never collected on the debt. Sometimes unusual things work and sometimes they don't. That time it did. I do wish you well.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

TDSC60 said:


> Does anyone think it takes 13 mins to say " I should not have kissed you and we can never do that again"?


Nope.

But that's just about the right amount of time it takes to discuss how and where they'll get together the *next *time and who's bringing the 6 pack.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

BluesPower said:


> Just to clarify a couple of terminology things. She is not remorseful, not in the slightest. It is a fine point much debated, but she is not remorseful.


Exactly. I've seen post where the self described "former" cheater was asking for instructions on how to show remorse or worse, some desperate betrayed spouse asking if what their cheater is doing is actually showing remorse. If "showing remorse" requires an effort on the wayward's part, its not remorse; its an act.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Charlie

How have you been? How did the polygraph go?


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## Kamstel (Apr 25, 2018)

How did the polygraph go last Friday?


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## Imajerk17 (Apr 10, 2018)

Geeze Louise. Look at it this way OP: If you hadn't called at the right time, they would have done helluva lot more than merely kissed (if they hadn't actually done so already). An adult woman does not run off with an adult man at 2 AM for only some PG fun.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Kamstel said:


> How did the polygraph go last Friday?


Uh oh!


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

VladDracul said:


> Exactly. I've seen post where the self described "former" cheater was asking for instructions on how to show remorse or worse, some desperate betrayed spouse asking if what their cheater is doing is actually showing remorse. If "showing remorse" requires an effort on the wayward's part, its not remorse; its an act.


*True* remorse seems to be a myth. 

Most cheaters are pretty good at knowing what to say and how to act to *appear* remorseful, and I think most BS's are so grateful to see_ anything_ positive that they believe they're seeing true remorse. But one needs only to look at any of the infidelity boards out there and you'll soon notice a pattern - lots of supposedly 'reconciled' BS's coming back to the board a few years later to post about how their 'remorseful' cheater was caught cheating - *again*. And they'll go on and on about how 'remorseful' the cheater was and how they'd 'done all the work' and how things had gone so well for the last 4 or 5 years, etc. etc.

So yes, I think most waywards put on a good show - just enough to keep from being dragged into divorce court.


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## VermiciousKnid (Nov 14, 2017)

Charlie12 said:


> I confronted him the following morning and his story aligned with only kissing as well as other details.


Which is the story they cooked up together while on their way back when you called and caught them.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

On the poly-graph.
Not knowing, ever speculating...


On Polly puking up the crack-her.

a. I suspect she did not go through with the polygraph. She still denies any PA. Or, she owned up to it.
b. She made a parking lot confession
c. She failed the Poly, will not confess.
d. She failed the Poly admits to a PA.

I suspect all ways lead to Slippery Rock, PA.
She went all the way there at least once.

She enjoyed it, enjoyed him less.

Her remorse is mixed with Salamander shame.
She 'likely' let a lizard enter her cave.

And she is embarrassed. 
Remorse for her is evident. 
So is her ability to compartmentalize that lizard in her cave.

Had you not caught them, it would eventually have gone full blown, then fizzled.

I believe the full blown and slop lips had already occurred. 

She admitted to two instances. 
There was likely more than two.

A wife will not walk off in the woods with another man after two minor kissing instances.
These are adults.
She admitted to liking him. Uh, ya think?

Her AP was good enough to bed in the poison ivy, not good enough to sleep with, stay with outside the shaded woods in a LTR.
She called it quits, she dumped him.
He was a side piece.

She wants to keep her marriage, she lies.


L-


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> *True* remorse seems to be a myth.
> 
> Most cheaters are pretty good at knowing what to say and how to act to *appear* remorseful, and I think most BS's are so grateful to see_ anything_ positive that they believe they're seeing true remorse. But one needs only to look at any of the infidelity boards out there and you'll soon notice a pattern - lots of supposedly 'reconciled' BS's coming back to the board a few years later to post about how their 'remorseful' cheater was caught cheating - *again*. And they'll go on and on about how 'remorseful' the cheater was and how they'd 'done all the work' and how things had gone so well for the last 4 or 5 years, etc. etc.
> 
> So yes, I think most waywards put on a good show - just enough to keep from being dragged into divorce court.


It is sad but true.

It would be interesting to see some numbers of both how many reconciliation attempts fail after a few years for any reason, and how many Wayward Spouses re-offend. 

I think the wayward spouses latent entitlement often kills it in the end, a lack of remorse, whether by cheating, or reasserting their "rights".

Charlie, here is a good article on entitlement and reconciliation. 

https://www.chumplady.com/2013/07/reconciliation-and-entitlement/


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> *True* remorse seems to be a myth.


I agree.

Placing *true* before *remorse* is an oxymoron.
At least in cases of infidelity.

Too many steps lead to infidelity.

All needed, none [regret-halted] for those that arrived.

Even a one-night-stand needs to have been prior approved in a soon-to-be cheaters mind.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

If his wife has passed the poly I think he would have come back to announce his plan to save the marriage.

I fear he has found out that his worse fears are true. She had sex with OM and she told him she was not attracted to him because she did not want to cheat on her lover with her husband.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

SunCMars said:


> On the poly-graph.
> Not knowing, ever speculating...
> 
> 
> ...


:iagree:

With every single word.

Especially this,
"A wife will not walk off in the woods with another man after two minor kissing instances.
These are adults.
She admitted to liking him. Uh, ya think?"


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## mickybill (Nov 29, 2016)

Me thinks Charlie has left the thread...hopefully not because of the poly.
If you are are still reading this Charlie, hang in there buddy. It will get better, eventually.


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## SF-FAN (Sep 24, 2013)

Charlie12 said:


> I appreciate the tough messages, not good to hear, but necessary to keep me thinking clearly to make the best decision for my kids and me. I feel I need to have all information before making a decision.
> 
> I took some of the constructive advice from this post:
> 
> ...


I'm late to this thread but I don't believe too many people doing things behind their spouses' backs text anymore. There's SnapChat messaging and those messages don't appear on the phone bill. They can message all day long and you'd be none the wiser.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Why has Charlie12 not returned?

He loves her, she did not pass the poly or she refused to be Pollyanna-ed.

He is sad.
He is hurt.
He is embarrassed to come back.

He knows we are going tell him: 

"We told you so".
"You did not listen".
"Now, what are you going to do?"

His world fell apart on D-Day.
Now, it is going up in flames, its over.


Or, it is being rug-swept.

I know he is in shock. Who would not be?

Charlie, you do not know us from beans. You need not be embarrassed in front of us.
We can do you no harm.


I hope I am wrong.



KB-


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

Decorum said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Kamstel View Post
> How did the polygraph go last Friday?
> 
> Uh oh!


Yep.


I am fearful that Charlie12's absence means he got more than the bargained for with the polygraph. Perhaps a reversal in the agreement to take it, or perhaps a parking lot confession that has left Charlie reeling, or a polygraph-extracted story that was more than he believed.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

Charlie, it is my belief that in no other place will you find the understanding and empathy that is here on TAM. You will get a variety of opinions, but choose what you feel is best for you. 

If you want to reconcile, there are ways to do that to recreate a marriage and to help stymie another affair. If you don't, there is excellent help for that too.

We are pulling for you.


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