# You are going to be mad at me...



## shelby12

My wife who is a professional with a good salary and job came home yesterday and told me she needed to tell me something and I was going to be mad. She told me she may be fired tomorrow. When I asked why she said that she was talking to one of her employees after work and gave him a hug because he had a bad day at the office, well, the hug turned into a kiss. Apparently someone saw them together, but not kissing, and reported it to Human Resources. When HR questioned them about it they admitted to the kiss. She is the last person in the world I would have thought to do this(where have you heard that before) but she said they both realized what they did was a mistake and it would never happen again and she loves me and has no feeling for him. I am now waiting to see if my wife pulls in to the driveway before 5:00. I know it was just a kiss but I am still pissed off she would act so trashy at work. I don't know what to do, I don't want to over react but she put our family in jeopardy. Any advice?


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## PBear

Look up "trickle truth". I think there's more to this story that you haven't found out yet. Brace yourself.

Maybe suggest you and her go into the HR office so you can both hear the complaint about her.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife

PBear said:


> Maybe suggest you and her go into the HR office so you can both hear the complaint about her.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think this is an excellent idea.


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## Numb in Ohio

Definitely agree that there is more to the story... something got discovered at work and she's trying to down play it... innocently..


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## theroad

Company's don't fire people for giving a hug and a kiss.

Company's fire coworkers for having affairs.

Definitely an example of trickle truth. WW got caught having an affair. So how management found out and they were fired.

You need to schedule a polygraph test for WW. As the date approaches your WW will start to admit a litle bit more hoping that she will get you to cancel the test saying that you know it all now.

Tell WW the test is still on to confirm that she has been 100% truthful.

Without telling WW you must gather evidence of an affair. Check phone bills for OM numbers and texts.

Install a key logger on the PC.

Hide a digital VAR in WW car and the house.

Hide a GPS in WW's car.

As you get proof of an affair don't confront but share and get advice on how to move forward.

Last go out and by the book Survivng An Affair.


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## justonelife

I agree with the previous posters. People do not get fired because they got caught "hugging". That's ridiculous. There is WAY more to this story.


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## chumplady

FWIW, my husband is an employment attorney specializing in sexual harassment. There's more to this story than you know. People don't get fired for a kiss. They get fired for creating a harassing environment. Unless this man complained about the kiss, or the person who saw it felt "harassed" by it, she probably got fired for having an inappropriate relationship at work. (If she gets fired.)

An employer can fire you for any reason at all (especially if you're screwing around on company time). There are only certain legally protected areas of the law like national origin, religion, race, and gender that you cannot be fired for. 

HR is probably concerned for reasons you are not aware of. I would bet that your wife is minimizing what happened.


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## daisygirl 41

Trickle truth!
Sorry but there's definitely more to it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife

Yes, I expect they were wasting company time and resources, emailing, texting, calling on the phone, enjoying long lunches and "hanging out" in their cars. A work colleague got fed up with the huge time suck and how they were tired of doing all the actual work and blew the whistle.

Have you taken a look at her ONLINE phone bill?


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## Hope1964

Sorry, but I have to agree with everyone else. People don't get fired for 'just a kiss'. 'Just a kiss' is affair speak for 'we had sex'.

If I were you, I would pretend to believe her, and start snooping. Find out what she does on the computer (keylogger), on her phone, what's come through her bank account and credit cards. Don't confront until you have more evidence.


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## badbane

The hug turned into a kiss. Then my shirt got pulled down and next thing I know I ended up on the counter and just before he got my panties of Debby walks in. She dropped all the crap in her hands. We buttoned up as fast as we could and rehearsed what we would tell our Spouses so that they don't get too suspicious. We have been flirting for months and we just did it this once.
I love my husband and he trusts me so he will believe that story. 

That sounds like what you need to be preparing to hear my friend. They got caught and she is doing as much PR and damage control as she can. You need to contact their HR and find out the nature of the issue and, if you can find the office gossip, try and see who filed the complaint and what she saw. Then it is time to check phone records, work email, email, and anything else you can find. 

This is just the beginning my friend. I would bring the kiss up again with your wife and go over it again and again. Call her on her bull you two are married so you should know when she is trying to hide something.
Bring up that you don't buy the whole story. Make her so focused on getting her story straight. That she can't focus on hiding the A anymore.
If you can track down what the witness saw and get a full testimony out of her, that is damning proof. Definitely check what I mentioned above, but the best way to get answers is to call up to HR and see what information they will release to you. If it is a good HR rep you won't get much. If it is a bad HR rep you'll get the whole story.


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## lordmayhem




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## Jellybeans

A lot more happened than what she told you.

Maybe his wife or someone else reported their dalliance(s). My bet is she's been having an affair with him. 

Find out what you can about him and find out if he is married.

There is probably a lot more you don't know about it.

Try to get information w/o her knowing (do your own research).


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## Almostrecovered

shelby12 said:


> Apparently someone saw them together, but not kissing, and reported it to Human Resources. ?



and why would this person report it if they were just "together"?

another reason why this is trickle truth, it doesn't make sense


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## Almostrecovered

aside from HR, you should get in touch with the OM's wife


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## Hicks

Do you have a job?


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## AngryandUsed

where is OP?


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## shelby12

AngryandUsed said:


> where is OP?


Thank you all. The President and CEO were going to meet with her this morning. The person she kissed is married by the way. Since she did not come home from work early I can only assume they did not fire her. We have been married for 21 years and are very successful and have never had any problems. Almostrecovered made a good point. I doubt HR would talk to me directly however since HR would have certainly placed something in her folder I am going to demand that she show me a copy of the complaint. I am have not eaten in a day I am so sick. Thank you again.


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## iheartlife

If you're having a hard time eating, try soup or milkshakes. Now is NOT the time to compromise your immune system. You need every ounce of strength and health you can get, especially if you're having trouble sleeping.



shelby12 said:


> Almostrecovered made a good point. I doubt HR would talk to me directly however since HR would have certainly placed something in her folder I am going to demand that she show me a copy of the complaint.


I believe the only way this will happen is if you walk into HR together and get a copy of the file with her standing there. They will give her a copy of whatever she has a right to see. That way there is no question of her editing / hiding / altering anything.

She cannot be trusted to tell you the full truth right now. She has zero incentive to do so.


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## shelby12

iheartlife said:


> If you're having a hard time eating, try soup or milkshakes. Now is NOT the time to compromise your immune system. You need every ounce of strength and health you can get, especially if you're having trouble sleeping.
> 
> 
> 
> I believe the only way this will happen is if you walk into HR together and get a copy of the file with her standing there. They will give her a copy of whatever she has a right to see. That way there is no question of her editing / hiding / altering anything.
> 
> She cannot be trusted to tell you the full truth right now. She has zero incentive to do so.




This is what I will do thank you so much, all of you.


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## Almostrecovered

you really should also find out who OM is and contact his wife, she may be getting a different story or no story at all


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## Hope1964

I am wondering why she even said anything at all. If she hadn't, and didn't/doesn't get fired, you'd still be totally in the dark. Since it looks like she didn't get fired, she's let the cat out of the bag for no reason.

All the more reason for you to start digging.


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## Almostrecovered

Hope1964 said:


> I am wondering why she even said anything at all. If she hadn't, and didn't/doesn't get fired, you'd still be totally in the dark. Since it looks like she didn't get fired, she's let the cat out of the bag for no reason.


damage control most likely, she probably freaked out


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## Hope1964

Almostrecovered said:


> damage control most likely, she probably freaked out


Yeah, well at least it looks like she's either not all that smart, or in reactive mode and not thinking straight. NOW is the time to do some digging, before she can cover things up!!!


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## SadSamIAm

shelby12 said:


> Thank you all. The President and CEO were going to meet with her this morning. The person she kissed is married by the way. Since she did not come home from work early I can only assume they did not fire her. We have been married for 21 years and are very successful and have never had any problems. Almostrecovered made a good point. I doubt HR would talk to me directly however since HR would have certainly placed something in her folder I am going to demand that she show me a copy of the complaint. I am have not eaten in a day I am so sick. Thank you again.


Can you contact her at work? 

I would text her and ask her what happened. 

This story seems strange to me. 

In one way, why would she tell you about the kiss and worry about being fired unless it was the truth? If there is more to the story, then she would have waited until she was actually fired.

I am like the others. I don't think you have the entire truth. 

I don't doubt that there is more to the story, she did get fired and she didn't come home because she is either with the OM that also got fired or she is just plain scared to see you.

I hope the best for you, but I fear the worst.


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## Hope1964

SadSamIAm said:


> I don't doubt that there is more to the story, she did get fired and she didn't come home because she is either with the OM that also got fired or she is just plain scared to see you.


Ooo, I never thought of that. Good point.

I would make a lousy cheater. My mind isn't devious enough.


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## shelby12

Hope1964 said:


> I am wondering why she even said anything at all. If she hadn't, and didn't/doesn't get fired, you'd still be totally in the dark. Since it looks like she didn't get fired, she's let the cat out of the bag for no reason.
> 
> All the more reason for you to start digging.


That is exactly what I said to her yesterday. If you do not end up getting fired why did you tell me. You would have to live with the guilt but at least I would be clueless.


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## Almostrecovered

well the real devious ones wouldn't say anything and then use the time off with OM


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## lordmayhem

Hope1964 said:


> Ooo, I never thought of that. Good point.
> 
> I would make a lousy cheater. My mind isn't devious enough.


Same here. It just seems like just way too much effort to make all these plans, constantly have to lie to people and your spouse' face, etc.


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## shelby12

Hope1964 said:


> Ooo, I never thought of that. Good point.
> 
> I would make a lousy cheater. My mind isn't devious enough.


Oh Christ I hope not. I am going to see if her car is in the lot at work.


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## Almostrecovered

shelby12 said:


> That is exactly what I said to her yesterday. If you do not end up getting fired why did you tell me. You would have to live with the guilt but at least I would be clueless.


don't discourage her saying anything to you, you're almost telling her that if you don't know, it won't hurt you, which is a completely erroneous statement. Some waywards "test the waters" to see how you react to dips and drabs of the truth, then they usually back up and not give the whole truth.


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## lordmayhem

shelby12 said:


> That is exactly what I said to her yesterday. If you do not end up getting fired why did you tell me. You would have to live with the guilt but at least I would be clueless.


She may have thought that she WAS getting fired if she was getting called in to HR and meeting with the CEO and President. Heck, I would too.

In either case, you'll find out soon enough.


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## Almostrecovered

shelby12 said:


> Oh Christ I hope not. I am going to see if her car is in the lot at work.


slow down a sec

investigation is fine, but you need a plan if something turns up- often upon discovery your emotions take over and you do dumb things


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## BrockLanders

I would tell her that in no uncertain terms would you stay in the marriage if it's proven that she omitted ANY details about her relationship w/ OM. Tell her she must tell you EVERYTHING right now.


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## Hope1964

I wouldn't tell her anything. I'd spend the next 2 days combing through bank and cc statements, installing a keylogger, getting all the info on her phone I could, trying to hack her email, whatever.


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## Almostrecovered

and OP hasn't been online since he posted about checking the car, here's hoping her car is in the lot


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## Hope1964

Well if it isn't, hopefully he won't know where she is and will come back and post that and not go off the deep end.


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## Hope1964

Her car could still be there if they left together in the OM's car.


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## Shamwow

Hope1964 said:


> I wouldn't tell her anything. I'd spend the next 2 days combing through bank and cc statements, installing a keylogger, getting all the info on her phone I could, trying to hack her email, whatever.


Totally agree. Act normal around her (as much as is possible, I know it's hard) while you do some digging and see if there's anything glaring that comes to light. Texts, credit card purchases, emails, etc. Do this without telling her. Hopefully you find nothing.

If you do find something (and it sounds like you will, her story is ludicrous), make sure it's concrete enough to confront her with before diving in...if she is in an affair she'll concoct stories to explain it all away, and you'll WANT to believe her, even if they make no sense. But if you can slap her with proof she can't refute you instantly have the upper hand.

Hope nothing crazy comes from your trip to her office...good luck.


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## Almostrecovered

Hope1964 said:


> Her car could still be there if they left together in the OM's car.


you're getting deviouser by the post


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## iheartlife

I think he is online. shelby, please listen to the advice. Early confrontation results in your spouse giving you the very first excuse they can think of. And because you love them, and you're distraught, you will believe them. And then that gives them a chance to get rid of all evidence, cover their tracks, and take whatever the relationship may be underground.


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## shelby12

Hope1964 said:


> Her car could still be there if they left together in the OM's car.


I never thought about that. Anyway her car is in the lot and the engine is cold. Should I wait in the parking lot to see if she come out alone?


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## Almostrecovered

shelby12 said:


> I never thought about that. Anyway her car is in the lot and the engine is cold. Should I wait in the parking lot to see if she come out alone?


I think that the scare they had would make them be a lot more careful at work, you are better off through other methods of investigation like a VAR, getting her texts and emails, keylogger, etc


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## Harken Banks

Brock is right. You are about to get trickle truthed. Ask her for the worst and full extent, hear what she has to say, and then lay it down that if you learn there is anything more you are done. It's no way to live. She owes you complete candor.

Also, not my area of expertise, but it's in the nature of my practice that a number of my clients get themselves into sensitive workplace situations. I do this company-side too. HR is 100% risk averse and defensive. They are not your friend. They are not your wife's friend. They do damage control. However, your wife's HR file and communications on company systems are discoverable, depending on the context and request. To cut to the quick, you need to play hardball. Otherwise, trickle truth and ongoing deception and betrayal.

Edit: Since ShamWow has weighed in with differing and no doubt better advice, I will bow out. He is the master. Respects, sir.


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## SprucHub

If she works for a private company, she may not have a "right" to see her personnel file. 

I agree with all others here - a company (especially one that pays a person a lot because they value her contribution) does not fire someone over a kiss. They fire her because she is harassing someone or because she has a relationship with a superior or inferior and the company does not want to get sued.

And, a "there, there, it's just a bad day" hug does not turn into a kiss. And, what kind of man needs a "there, there, it's just a bad day" hug?


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## Hope1964

shelby12 said:


> I never thought about that. Anyway her car is in the lot and the engine is cold. Should I wait in the parking lot to see if she come out alone?


Can you start sleuthing, like, NOW?


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## the guy

alot of great advice here.

The one thta sticks out the most and should be listen to is investigate. Let her minimize this whole thing and act supportive and unconcerned. Any ways act like you both will get through thru this.

Then.........sharpen up your spiddy senses and start digging, quitely investgate everything, especially the coworker. get as much onfo you can and see were it leave you.

If its not good you will need to come up with a plan to have the most effective confrontation as you can.

Letting your emotion run away with this will just get you a bunch of lies and factless statements from you wife.

You owe it to your self to validate if you are being decieved.

Its tough man b/c you just want to go off and demand answers from her. The thing is she may cool off and wait awhile before she continues if she sees you on to her.

I strongly suggest you act normal and go colvert.


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## Gabriel

Hope1964 said:


> Can you start sleuthing, like, NOW?


My theory is that she got caught kissing or whatever, got ratted on by someone, which caused a meeting with the CEO.....and.....

your wife is scared to death because the kiss was not an isolated incident - that she and this guy have been having an innappropriate relationship for some time now, and it's all about to finally get spilled onto the CEOs desk.

She thinks she is going to get fired, and you will need an explanation. So she calls you to do damage control, to tell you that it was this one little thing, this hug and kiss (oops) that only happened once that somebody saw.

But now she didn't get fired, right??? (or maybe she still will) And now she's going to stick to her story, say she got a slap on the wrist, and will want to go about life as if nothing happened, minimizing the whole event.

You need to sleuth - talk to a coworker. Call the guys' wife and ask her if she heard the story yet, and what that story is, so you can verify.


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## highwood

I agree with what others have said..start checking cell phones, computer, etc...become a detective! Don't tell her though what you are doing. If it was me I would also wait by her car for her.


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## Harken Banks

SprucHub said:


> If she works for a private company, she may not have a "right" to see her personnel file.


It varies by state, but generally the employee has a right of access to the file. Absent a criminal investigation.


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## CleanJerkSnatch

Time to buy a VAR or three! One in her car, in the house, etc., key logger at home on home computer, if she has her own laptop misplace the charge cord or something so she has to use your desktop/laptop with your key logger on it, etc etc, tracker on the phone. Check old CC bills as mentioned before, if she says she'll be doing anything later than usual investigate. Order some pizzas because its ninja turtle time without the shell shock.


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## Hope1964

VAR for the car too.

Don't wait for her if that's not what you usually do. SPY, yes, but do not let her catch you acting unusually.


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## shelby12

I truly want to thank everyone from the bottom of my heart. My daughter called her at work to say hi and Mom is at work so I guess she still has a job. My wife should be home at 5:15 and I have to take my daughter to work around 5:30. My wife doesn't use email at home only work so nothing to check there. I could grab her phone when she gets home but my guess is things would already be erased. I should say that I am a teacher and home all day and that she works only a few miles from home and I am constantly driving over to where she works switching cars(my daughter is learning to drive her car) and she is always at work. I have never gone there to find her missing. My wife works 10 hour days at a small hometown bank that is very conservative. They nearly fired a person from a DUI so they don't play games. If the bank thought that this was anything more than a kiss she would be gone. Of course that does not mean I am letting up until I am convinced this was a one time thing.


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## Numb in Ohio

I hope you're right.. but I think you'll be back with more.. sooner or later. 

Good luck. People don't kiss,, as a one time thing... IMO


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## thunderstruck

I doubt it's a one time thing, but...if the OM received a promotion or award while working for the OP's wife, and the coworker who saw the hug felt like they deserved it...they could have raised a stink with upper management. I'm only thinking about this, b/c a female coworker recently told me something similar. She was the one who felt slighted and found out later that a boss was having a PA with one of his employees.


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## Still Knight

shelby12 said:


> I truly want to thank everyone from the bottom of my heart. My daughter called her at work to say hi and Mom is at work so I guess she still has a job. My wife should be home at 5:15 and I have to take my daughter to work around 5:30. My wife doesn't use email at home only work so nothing to check there. I could grab her phone when she gets home but my guess is things would already be erased. I should say that I am a teacher and home all day and that she works only a few miles from home and I am constantly driving over to where she works switching cars(my daughter is learning to drive her car) and she is always at work. I have never gone there to find her missing. My wife works 10 hour days at a small hometown bank that is very conservative. They nearly fired a person from a DUI so they don't play games. If the bank thought that this was anything more than a kiss she would be gone. Of course that does not mean I am letting up until I am convinced this was a one time thing.


Shelby, I can say that I confessed a very similar case to my wife (after finding out about her ongoing affair) and was completely honest that my coworker and I just kissed once. We had of course been flirting a bit and getting a little too personal with our discussions for a month or so prior, but one day she was at my desk, gave me a hug, and we ended up kissing. I realized immediately what a horrible error in judgement it was and told the woman we couldn't continue on that way and since confessing, I don't even speak to her anymore. Hopefully your wife is being honest and it's not impossible, though it does sound like there are more details..I'm really sorry though, I'm two weeks into finding out about my wife so I understand some of what you're feeling.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hope1964

thunderstruck said:


> I doubt it's a one time thing, but...if the OM received a promotion or award while working for the OP's wife, and the coworker who saw the hug felt like they deserved it...they could have raised a stink with upper management. I'm only thinking about this, b/c a female coworker recently told me something similar. She was the one who felt slighted and found out later that a boss was having a PA with one of his employees.


Yeah, but if they didn't actually kiss, why did she say they did?

Something just doesn't add up here.

I really hope you don't find anything through your sleuthing. I think the VAR in the car is a really good thing to do. If after a month you don't find anything then maybe she's telling the truth. MAYBE.


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## Harken Banks

At a minimum, your wife kissed a guy. Married women do not do that. If that is the worst of it (you should hope that it is and assume that it is not), there is still a big problem.


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## SprucHub

shelby12 said:


> I truly want to thank everyone from the bottom of my heart. My daughter called her at work to say hi and Mom is at work so I guess she still has a job. My wife should be home at 5:15 and I have to take my daughter to work around 5:30. My wife doesn't use email at home only work so nothing to check there. I could grab her phone when she gets home but my guess is things would already be erased. I should say that I am a teacher and home all day and that she works only a few miles from home and I am constantly driving over to where she works switching cars(my daughter is learning to drive her car) and she is always at work. I have never gone there to find her missing. My wife works 10 hour days at a small hometown bank that is very conservative. They nearly fired a person from a DUI so they don't play games. If the bank thought that this was anything more than a kiss she would be gone. Of course that does not mean I am letting up until I am convinced this was a one time thing.


Does she have an iphone? If so, and it is synched to a computer, it is pretty easy to access her old texts. You can google it or someone can link to it. Also, if you are completely not tech savvy and using your home computer to type this, please make sure you are using private browsing so that your W cannot find this in internet history.


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## LostCPA

Harken Banks said:


> At a minimum, your wife kissed a guy. Married women do not do that. If that is the worst of it (you should hope that it is and assume that it is not), there is still a big problem.



I doubt this is all there is to this, but assume it is. It is still an affair and needs to be addressed as such. Hugging and kissing OM indicates that there is an ongoing EA. I would ask for NC and I would also insist that one of them leave their job.


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## Ikaika

iheartlife said:


> Yes, I expect they were wasting company time and resources, emailing, texting, calling on the phone, enjoying long lunches and "hanging out" in their cars. A work colleague got fed up with the huge time suck and how they were tired of doing all the actual work and blew the whistle.
> 
> Have you taken a look at her ONLINE phone bill?


This is the most plausible story rather than the "after work" story she provided. It is after work and presumably in the parking lot (her story)... hard to imagine that this would get anyone fired. Taking up company time with carrying on trying to manage an affair - yea that will get you fired. I saw it happen to a co-worker.


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## shelby12

Wow this day just keeps getting better. My garage just called and it is going to cost over $1000 for my car inspection. Then on the way home from my wife's work I ran over and killed a cat and some kids blew up my mail box last night.


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## Gabriel

shelby12 said:


> I truly want to thank everyone from the bottom of my heart. My daughter called her at work to say hi and Mom is at work so I guess she still has a job. My wife should be home at 5:15 and I have to take my daughter to work around 5:30. My wife doesn't use email at home only work so nothing to check there. I could grab her phone when she gets home but my guess is things would already be erased. I should say that I am a teacher and home all day and that she works only a few miles from home and I am constantly driving over to where she works switching cars(my daughter is learning to drive her car) and she is always at work. I have never gone there to find her missing. My wife works 10 hour days at a small hometown bank that is very conservative. They nearly fired a person from a DUI so they don't play games. If the bank thought that this was anything more than a kiss she would be gone. Of course that does not mean I am letting up until I am convinced this was a one time thing.


I think most places would fire someone (or seriously consider it) if an employee had a DUI. So just because the bank did that doesn't really prove anything.

Shelby, I can tell you want to believe your wife and that you love her and want everything to just be okay. You are throwing out justifications and excuses all over the place. Please check the phone stuff, and really, it's pretty natural to want to talk to the other guy's wife. Find out who she is and give her a call and say, "So, I take it you heard about what happened at work between your H and my W. How are you handling it? I never thought anything like this would ever happen. You?"


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## Gabriel

Oh, and don't tell your wife you are going to make that call. That will give them the opporunity to spin things, if in fact, it needs spinning.


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## iheartlife

shelby12 said:


> My wife who is a professional with a good salary and job came home yesterday and told me she needed to tell me something and I was going to be mad. She told me she may be fired tomorrow. When I asked why she said that she was talking to one of her employees after work and gave him a hug because he had a bad day at the office, well, the hug turned into a kiss. Apparently someone saw them together, but not kissing, and reported it to Human Resources.


Re-reading this, I realize that he says that the OM is "one of her employees." So the reason her bosses would want to possibly fire her is because they're concerned about a sexual harrassment lawsuit. Because although same-level employees having consensual affairs is not exactly a great way to get ahead in your career, those are often tolerated IF no one can prove that it's hurting the company. On the other hand, boss / employee affairs (as someone already pointed out) do create issues of favoritism. They can therefore rise to the level of a "hostile environment" necessary to make a sexual harassment claim. That creates exposure to liability--something even "non-conservative" companies won't want to risk.


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## Hope1964

shelby12 said:


> Wow this day just keeps getting better. My garage just called and it is going to cost over $1000 for my car inspection. Then on the way home from my wife's work I ran over and killed a cat and some kids blew up my mail box last night.


Bad things come in threes, so maybe these three things mean she really didn't do more than kiss him


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## Harken Banks

Hope1964 said:


> Bad things come in threes, so maybe these three things mean she really didn't do more than kiss him


I thought that was just celebrity deaths?

Look, Shelby, if it sounds like we are giving you nightmare scenarios that can't really be true and that do not recognize the truly exceptional qualities of your wife and your marriage, read some of our stories. It's like arriving in the land of misfit toys. You posted here for a reason. Just like and most everyone else here did.


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## Almostrecovered

Nobody likes a Charlie-in-the-box


----------



## Still Knight

shelby12 said:


> Wow this day just keeps getting better. My garage just called and it is going to cost over $1000 for my car inspection. Then on the way home from my wife's work I ran over and killed a cat and some kids blew up my mail box last night.


If you're not already a man of faith, it may be a good time to try connecting with God. Wouldn't rule out he's trying to get your attention or that someone else is working on you...and trying to keep you from doing that.


----------



## Machiavelli

Shelby, who makes more, you or your wife?

How would you rate yourself in the physical attraction dept? Six pack?

Who's hotter, you or your wife?

See where I'm going with this?


----------



## thunderstruck

Still wonder why she'd fess up before knowing if she'd get fired. She could have easily STFU, and then wait to see what would happen the next day. Maybe she's trying to control the story before the OMW contacts the OP with the real story.


----------



## SprucHub

Still Knight said:


> If you're not already a man of faith, it may be a good time to try connecting with God. Wouldn't rule out he's trying to get your attention or that someone else is working on you...and trying to keep you from doing that.


Yes, but which G_d? Guess wrong, and it may anger him.


----------



## iheartlife

thunderstruck said:


> Still wonder why she'd fess up before knowing if she'd get fired. She could have easily STFU, and then wait to see what would happen the next day. Maybe she's trying to control the story before the OMW contacts the OP with the real story.


As I outlined above, if she's the boss, chances of getting fired for kissing a subordinate are actually pretty high. That's my theory. Changed slightly because I didn't read the first post closely enough. I had said it was about wasting company time, and didn't truly get that she is the OM's boss.


----------



## Gabriel

thunderstruck said:


> Still wonder why she'd fess up before knowing if she'd get fired. She could have easily STFU, and then wait to see what would happen the next day. Maybe she's trying to control the story before the OMW contacts the OP with the real story.


Hey thunder - check out my theory several posts back.


----------



## lordmayhem

iheartlife said:


> Re-reading this, I realize that he says that the OM is "one of her employees." So the reason her bosses would want to possibly fire her is because they're concerned about a sexual harrassment lawsuit. Because although same-level employees having consensual affairs is not exactly a great way to get ahead in your career, those are often tolerated IF no one can prove that it's hurting the company. On the other hand, boss / employee affairs (as someone already pointed out) do create issues of favoritism. They can therefore rise to the level of a "hostile environment" necessary to make a sexual harassment claim. That creates exposure to liability--something even "non-conservative" companies won't want to risk.


She is most likely the manager, and OM is probably one of the bankers or one of the tellers.


----------



## thunderstruck

Could be...hopefully all of our theories are wrong.


----------



## iheartlife

iheartlife said:


> As I outlined above, if she's the boss, chances of getting fired for kissing a subordinate are actually pretty high. That's my theory. Changed slightly because I didn't read the first post closely enough. I had said it was about wasting company time, and didn't truly get that she is the OM's boss.


I should (hastily) add that this doesn't mean I think they only kissed. Because a boss at a conservative bank has a LOT to lose by "kissing" an employee. So why do that where they could be seen? Because there's more to the story.


----------



## shelby12

Machiavelli said:


> Shelby, who makes more, you or your wife?
> 
> How would you rate yourself in the physical attraction dept? Six pack?
> 
> Who's hotter, you or your wife?
> 
> See where I'm going with this?




She make more but not by much. She is very attractive, hour at the gym each day and over the past 6 months she has gotten even better looking. She just came home, wish me luck


----------



## lordmayhem

iheartlife said:


> I should (hastily) add that this doesn't mean I think they only kissed. Because a boss at a conservative bank has a LOT to lose by "kissing" an employee. So why do that where they could be seen? Because there's more to the story.


I don't really know of any banks that aren't conservative. My fWW is a banker with one of the largest banks in the country, and they're very conservative.


----------



## iheartlife

Careful about confrontation. And delete your browser history.



shelby12 said:


> hour at the gym each day


Okay, I'm not even going to touch that one. Any other takers?


----------



## Harken Banks

shelby12 said:


> She make more but not by much. She is very attractive, hour at the gym each day and over the past 6 months she has gotten even better looking. She just came home, wish me luck


Breathe. We are all with you.


----------



## lordmayhem

We forgot to tell him to get a VAR and have it on him to protect himself.


----------



## Hope1964

Damn, I wish he'd said what he's going to do. Sounds like he's going to confront


----------



## Numb in Ohio

shelby12 said:


> She make more but not by much. She is very attractive, hour at the gym each day and over the past 6 months she has gotten even better looking. She just came home, wish me luck


Maybe the A's been going on for this long?


----------



## lordmayhem

shelby12 said:


> She make more but not by much. She is very attractive, hour at the gym each day and over the past 6 months she has gotten even better looking. She just came home, wish me luck


Suddenly going to the gym to make her self more attractive is a big red flag.


----------



## iheartlife

lordmayhem said:


> Suddenly going to the gym to make her self more attractive is a big red flag.


Okay, you made me say it. IF she's going to the gym.


----------



## Almostrecovered

lordmayhem said:


> Damn, I didn't think of that.


Her and Hope are truly devious


----------



## lordmayhem

iheartlife said:


> Okay, you made me say it. IF she's going to the gym.


:iagree:

Damn, I didn't think of that.


----------



## Harken Banks

Let's wait on Shelby. Mr. Brightside flooding into my head.


----------



## Shaggy

You need a VAR in her car, and I would suggest a personal private call by you to the bank to outright ask them what the story here is. Tell them you were shocked and worried and wanted to know if there is more that you should know.

Tell them you expect the question and answer to be strictly private on both sides, but as spouse you want to know.

The worst they can do is refuse to tell you anything.


----------



## lordmayhem

Confrontation going on right now.

He's probably getting the "He's just a friend" speech, and that he's crazy for thinking something is going on.


----------



## Hope1964

Yeah, "it was just the one kiss". 

She's going to delete ANY evidence he may have been able to gather now.

He really needs to VAR her car.


----------



## Chris989

Hope1964 said:


> Yeah, "it was just the one kiss".
> 
> She's going to delete ANY evidence he may have been able to gather now.
> 
> He really needs to VAR her car.


Crossing my fingers for him. I hope he plays it cool but I know I couldn't have.


----------



## Harken Banks

She brought this to his attention. This is not the standard, "something is off, but I can't put my finger on it." He can wait on evidence for the sake of being able to demonstrate the depths to which her betrayal may go or call it out hard for the sake of trying to save his marriage. Whatever is out there is out there and will not go away for his calling it out. We don't even know if he is doing that or just trying to get through the evening without hyperventilating.


----------



## iheartlife

I agree we should wait on the OP and make no assumptions about the future.

But the reason she told him was because she was close to 100% sure he was going to find out anyhow. So she had to tell him to minimize the damage. That is classic straight out of the cheater's script. That was not a "confession" from some type of deep reconsideration of her past misbehavior.


----------



## Numb in Ohio

Mr. Nice Guy ... He's definitely not gonna get the truth unless she is totally guilt stricken,...

Only other scenario would be that she was breaking up with him, giving hug and kiss goodbye, and he wasn't happy, and she worried he would get even by telling HR?? Nah, doubt it.


----------



## Gabriel

Ever get that feeling that the roof is going to cave in? Ugh, I just don't like where this is going. I think she was going to the gym - he said she looks hotter now. I wonder why.


----------



## Chris989

Immediately she wasn't fired she and the OM would have had an opportunity many APs don't get; prior warning of discovery and ample time to cover EVERYTHING. 

The OP is going to get his butt handed to him with a thank you note pinned to it.


----------



## Harken Banks

Chris989 said:


> Immediately she wasn't fired she and the OM would have had an opportunity many APs don't get; prior warning of discovery and ample time to cover EVERYTHING.
> 
> The OP is going to get his butt handed to him with a thank you note pinned to it.


OP plays his cards right, he'll be fine. Though it may be a sh*tty hand he's been dealt. 

Look, his wife came home and said there was a problem. If she was going to get to concealment mode, she was already there.


----------



## lovelygirl

Machiavelli said:


> Shelby, who makes more, you or your wife?
> 
> How would you rate yourself in the physical attraction dept? Six pack?
> 
> Who's hotter, you or your wife?
> 
> See where I'm going with this?


Typical Machiavellian question. 

I love how straight forward you are!


----------



## lovelygirl

shelby12 said:


> I know it was *just* a kiss but I am still pissed off she would act so *trashy* at work.


You sound like you underestimate the power of a kiss! 

I would put much more thought into it.
It's not about acting trashy. It's about letting someone else replace you in her heart..., little by little. 


I'm curious to hear what has she got to say though.


----------



## MattMatt

chumplady said:


> FWIW, my husband is an employment attorney specializing in sexual harassment. There's more to this story than you know. People don't get fired for a kiss. They get fired for creating a harassing environment. Unless this man complained about the kiss, or the person who saw it felt "harassed" by it, she probably got fired for having an inappropriate relationship at work. (If she gets fired.)
> 
> An employer can fire you for any reason at all (especially if you're screwing around on company time). There are only certain legally protected areas of the law like national origin, religion, race, and gender that you cannot be fired for.
> 
> HR is probably concerned for reasons you are not aware of. I would bet that your wife is minimizing what happened.


Although they might get fired for having sex on a desk in an office when someone walks in to the office. Like OMs wife, for example.

Be prepared for some bad news.


----------



## Chris989

Ok I'll go with it then.

She feeds him a line confirming the story she first told.

Next, she tells him he is the only one for her.

He gives her a bit of grief. She cries and says it's the truth. He starts to doubt. She pulls the joker - which many men can't resist.

Next, they end up making passionate love.

He posts back and says it was all a big misunderstanding.

We all scream at the monitor and wait for the next post about D Day. Might not be for another 12 months, but it is coming like an express train with the OM tied to the tracks right in front of it.


----------



## Harken Banks

Chris989 said:


> Ok I'll go with it then.
> 
> She feeds him a line confirming the story she first told.
> 
> Next, she tells him he is the only one for her.
> 
> He gives her a bit of grief. She cries and says it's the truth. He starts to doubt. She pulls the joker - which many men can't resist.
> 
> Next, they end up making passionate love.
> 
> He posts back and says it was all a big misunderstanding.
> 
> We all scream at the monitor and wait for the next post about D Day. Might not be for another 12 months, but it is coming like an express train with the OM tied to the tracks right in front of it.


Yeah, but I'm still a sucker for the happy ending every time. Why is that? God, I am picturing Donna Reed as his wife.


----------



## Hope1964

I'm an optimist. I hope he took the advice to minimize things and go all Inspector Gadget on her.


----------



## badbane

lordmayhem said:


>


This picture seemed so nice until I came to TAM.


----------



## MattMatt

Unless she was reported for harassment by the so-called OM?


----------



## Numb in Ohio

Definite on the iceburg... you don't "go to the gym" for 6 months getting in shape,, and come home with a story about "maybe" getting fired because of a hug, that turned into a kiss....

I call Bull sheet....


----------



## badbane

This whole thing ,going to the gym last 6 months, looking better than ever. I agree red flag now that there is a possible A going on. OP think back and ask yourself is there anymore odd behavior or new patterns of behavior start in the last 8 months or so. 


OP so I am assuming you have talked already so I will skip on the points I think you should be asking about. Regardless of what happened make sure you are throughout in your searches. I started an evidence gathering thread and the link to it is in my signature. Go there and you will find out a lot of good tips on how to get into email accounts, and phones.


----------



## the guy

Remember folks deniel is powerful and its hard to think about the unthinkable. Lets all hope that we at least planted someseeds.

We can all hope that even after his W talks her way out of this and she goes deeper, OP now has a good place to go when he needs us.


----------



## Kasler

Shes only telling you because when the pressure about her job came you were going to find out about it eventually. Don't take her word as fact.

In fact with the trickle truth thats most likely going on here take her words as false until proven truthful.


----------



## chumplady

Hope OP checks back in after the mindf**k he is no doubt being subjected to right now.



> Although they might get fired for having sex on a desk in an office when someone walks in to the office. Like OMs wife, for example.


It also occurred to me, she may be fired if the relationship with OM is consensual. My H has gotten cases (and won't take them any more, because these people are completely unsympathetic to juries) where the woman has consensual sex with a coworker/boss and THEN sues the company for sexual harassment after the fact. (Usually when the guy dumps her, or she gets fired.)

It may be that she met with HR and they gave her a formal reprimand. She *thought* she was getting fired. Really, HR is just firing up the machine to do it nice and legal. Write her up, warn her, get the higher ups to sign off. Boom gets lowered a bit later. 

Meanwhile she is in Cover Her Ass mode. And yeah, the gym thing and staying out "exercising" (cough) for an hour a day... doesn't look good.


----------



## the guy

Theres tons of variables, the fact is OP's wifes capacity to cross a boundry. Hell we can go on and on about why she made the statement, but what must be addressed is 1) is an affair going, cuz we all know that until OM is out of the picture, then the dynamics of the marriage is shot, so that should be priority #1 ...snoop. 

2) what is OP's wife doing to affair proof the marriage if and when the snooping turns up nothing. Again a bounfry was crossed and for the sake of of this marriage, way was even a hug put out there then nailit with a kiss.

Heaven forbid its worste case senerio (hence the snooping) but even at best case senerio, a serious issue in Op's W behaviors is concerning.


----------



## shelby12

It has been a long day. No yelling or screaming on my part, I tried to stay calm. First the kiss. My wife is one of those huggers. Well she hugged him not in a back room but an open area near the offices and that is why someone saw them. They were not trying to hide anything. I asked her what made you look into each others eyes and decide to kiss instead of letting go of the hug. She said I don't know but it was a 2 second kiss and I was mortified after it happened. When they pulled back from each other he had his hand on her arm and that is what the other person saw and that is why it was reported. 
My wife lost her job but the man she kissed did not. I asked my wife if the guys wife knew about the incident she said I don't know we have not talked since. My wife did get three months of severance pay and was not fired but asked to resign. She can also collect unemployment but I will not do that. Two of the three executives wanted her to stay on but the new bank president, who by the way is actually a d-bag, wanted her gone. On a side note they did not tell her until 4:30 that she was being let go. In fact the president told HR that if anyone tells her before 4:30 they will be fired, again a d-bag. I constantly asked her why the kiss, why not just let go after the hug. She said I don't know, it was a horrible mistake. I told her I am tired of hearing you say "I don't know", two people do not just by chance decide to kiss each other unless there is an attraction or some past history. She finally said that maybe he made me happy when I was having a bad day and I know it was wrong and I know you can never forgive me and I will move out or get a divorce if you want and I wont blame you. I know she did have a lot of bad days; she was overworked and suffered from serious migraines. I told her her stunt put our family in jeopardy and she could lose me and our daughter. I asked her if she ever when out with him and she said twice. Once at lunch to grab some pizza across the street and a second time during lunch for his review. I did everything to try to trip her up but couldn't and she answered every question. In fact it was her honesty that got her fired in the first place. If she would have said that nothing happened when she was interviewed by HR she would still have a job. I am hurt and pissed off that she acted so trashy at work and I told her that she put our family at risk. Ok, so where do I go from here. Well she betrayed me and our daughter. By the way we just told our daughter Mom is getting another job and nothing more. My wife keeps telling me that she made a stupid mistake and that it will never happen again. She loves me and understands that I may never completely trust her again. I have no reason or evidence to believe anything else happened. Maybe I am blind but I think this was an isolated incident. I know that most of you will disagree with my conclusion but I do sincerely appreciate all of you input. This forum helped me more that you will ever know.


----------



## iheartlife

Well, see if the bank backs up her version of the story.

I think it was Chumplady who correctly predicted she would be fired anyhow.

You yourself point out how implausible it is that she "didn't know" why they kissed. I'm not sure why you think this is all there is.

Have you taken a look at the online account for her cell phone, by any chance? or, without giving her any warning, take her phone and look through it for emails, texts, and his contact information.

From what SHE has said, I expect they are in (at least) an emotional affair. Now that she doesn't work there any more, and she isn't his boss, that actually makes it easier for the two of them, not worse.


----------



## Gabriel

shelby12 said:


> It has been a long day. No yelling or screaming on my part, I tried to stay calm. First the kiss. My wife is one of those huggers. Well she hugged him not in a back room but an open area near the offices and that is why someone saw them. They were not trying to hide anything. I asked her what made you look into each others eyes and decide to kiss instead of letting go of the hug. She said I don't know but it was a 2 second kiss and I was mortified after it happened. When they pulled back from each other he had his hand on her arm and that is what the other person saw and that is why it was reported.
> My wife lost her job but the man she kissed did not. I asked my wife if the guys wife knew about the incident she said I don't know we have not talked since. My wife did get three months of severance pay and was not fired but asked to resign. She can also collect unemployment but I will not do that. Two of the three executives wanted her to stay on but the new bank president, who by the way is actually a d-bag, wanted her gone. On a side note they did not tell her until 4:30 that she was being let go. In fact the president told HR that if anyone tells her before 4:30 they will be fired, again a d-bag. I constantly asked her why the kiss, why not just let go after the hug. She said I don't know, it was a horrible mistake. I told her I am tired of hearing you say "I don't know", two people do not just by chance decide to kiss each other unless there is an attraction or some past history. She finally said that maybe he made me happy when I was having a bad day and I know it was wrong and I know you can never forgive me and I will move out or get a divorce if you want and I wont blame you. I know she did have a lot of bad days; she was overworked and suffered from serious migraines. I told her her stunt put our family in jeopardy and she could lose me and our daughter. I asked her if she ever when out with him and she said twice. Once at lunch to grab some pizza across the street and a second time during lunch for his review. I did everything to try to trip her up but couldn't and she answered every question. In fact it was her honesty that got her fired in the first place. If she would have said that nothing happened when she was interviewed by HR she would still have a job. I am hurt and pissed off that she acted so trashy at work and I told her that she put our family at risk. Ok, so where do I go from here. Well she betrayed me and our daughter. By the way we just told our daughter Mom is getting another job and nothing more. My wife keeps telling me that she made a stupid mistake and that it will never happen again. She loves me and understands that I may never completely trust her again. I have no reason or evidence to believe anything else happened. Maybe I am blind but I think this was an isolated incident. I know that most of you will disagree with my conclusion but I do sincerely appreciate all of you input. This forum helped me more that you will ever know.


It sounds like you did quite well in your dealings with her. But she was very quick to offer up leaving and divorce. I still think it is very, very odd that someone would get fired for having a too-intimate embrace with no proof of an affair, etc. That doesn't add up.

I've worked in a lot of professional environments, and I've never seen anyone get fired for hugging someone or touching their arm. Something else is going on. 

I am going to stress this again - you need to contact the OM's wife, ASAP. Your wife got SH!TCANNED from a very good job because of her interactions with this man. This is a very big deal. The OM's wife needs to be alerted that this happened. She will be an extra set of eyes and ears.

You are still getting the trickle truth, my friend.


----------



## Wazza

Shelby12, I'm with you that the folks on this board tend to expect the worst. That said, two comments. 

First, there is a problem, or she wouldn't have kissed. The problem may be between you two, or it may be an issue of hers that is nothing to do with you. IMO you should consider some counselling as a couple, or for her as an individual, to dig.

Second, keep your eyes open in case there is more to the story. Don't hang her without a trial, but don't acquit her just yet either. If there is an issue, the sooner you get it the more chance things can be repaired.

The sad part of keeping your eyes open is you need to do it quietly, since if she is lying, then telling her where you are going to look just allows her to conceal.


----------



## Wazza

Gabriel said:


> But she was very quick to offer up leaving and divorce. I still think it is very, very odd that someone would get fired for having a too-intimate embrace with no proof of an affair, etc. That doesn't add up.


Maybe it's odd she got fired, though if she was his boss that changes things. As for leaving and divorce....that could be panic.


----------



## Gabriel

I wanted to focus a bit on her saying "you'll never forgive me and I'll move out and get a divorce if you want".

She sounds like someone who has given up. I mean, who says that? Remorseful people beg for forgiveness, they don't offer to leave, do they? I suppose it's possible she is just feeling very down on herself and is self loathing. I mean, she messed up VERY BADLY, hurt your family's finances, trust, you name it.

You are doing great so far - but your'e not done. More to do.


----------



## Numb in Ohio

Just an opinion.... BUT.... do you think it may have been that they were having a relationship,, it was discovered,and since she was the employer,,, one of them had to go...

And since she is supposed to be the leader, and is to show appropriate behavior... she was asked to resign?

Just food for thought...


----------



## shelby12

Wazza said:


> Maybe it's odd she got fired, though if she was his boss that changes things. As for leaving and divorce....that could be panic.


Yes she was his boss and I don't want to panic, thank you.


----------



## Wazza

Gabriel said:


> I wanted to focus a bit on her saying "you'll never forgive me and I'll move out and get a divorce if you want".
> 
> She sounds like someone who has given up. I mean, who says that? Remorseful people beg for forgiveness, they don't offer to leave, do they? I suppose it's possible she is just feeling very down on herself and is self loathing. I mean, she messed up VERY BADLY, hurt your family's finances, trust, you name it.
> 
> You are doing great so far - but your'e not done. More to do.


My wife said that to me a few times during low points. No doubt in my mind it wasn't what she wanted.


----------



## PBear

You'll do what you need to do, I'm sure. But I suspect you still don't have the entire truth. You're taking her word for what happened with HR, and how her "honesty" got her fired, no?

Have you done the basics, like checked computers, email accounts, cell phones, and cell phone records? 

And yes, counseling is a good idea. And I think someone has recommended "Not Just Friends".

Good luck!

C


----------



## Gabriel

Wazza said:


> My wife said that to me a few times during low points. No doubt in my mind it wasn't what she wanted.


Okay, good. It's probably one of those, "I don't deserve you after what I have done" moments.

The embrace/touch/whatever must have been clearly quite intimate though, for her to get fired over it. I mean, it's pretty easy to sluff that off as nothing, otherwise.


----------



## Wazza

shelby12 said:


> Yes she was his boss and I don't want to panic, thank you.


I meant her panicking, not you. 

You know her, you can try to figure her out. We are all strangers on the internet.

If she's been truthful you can rebuild from this.


----------



## Wazza

Gabriel said:


> Okay, good. It's probably one of those, "I don't deserve you after what I have done" moments.
> 
> The embrace/touch/whatever must have been clearly quite intimate though, for her to get fired over it. I mean, it's pretty easy to sluff that off as nothing, otherwise.


Where I live it would be enough to get her fired, because he was a subordinate.


----------



## Shaggy

You need to follow up yourself with the bank.

You also need to monitor her like a hawk to watch for her contacting him. 

I suggest until you verify something she tells you, you dont believe it.

Honestly I do not believe her story. I can't see this big off a deal over a front and center 2 sec pec. Sorry it smells rotten. I can see a talking to, but not a firing.

Also if their reaction was that strong why not just fire her outright?

No this story smells. The consequences are far to severe for the minimal incident shes told you.

You need to visit the bank and ask for the details. Make noise about a possible legal action if you don't get some details.


----------



## TBT

Why wasn't the OM let go as well? Was there a double standard applied? Has she been called on the carpet in the past maybe you're not aware of it?


----------



## shelby12

iheartlife said:


> Well, see if the bank backs up her version of the story.
> 
> I think it was Chumplady who correctly predicted she would be fired anyhow.
> 
> You yourself point out how implausible it is that she "didn't know" why they kissed. I'm not sure why you think this is all there is.
> 
> Have you taken a look at the online account for her cell phone, by any chance? or, without giving her any warning, take her phone and look through it for emails, texts, and his contact information.
> 
> From what SHE has said, I expect they are in (at least) an emotional affair. Now that she doesn't work there any more, and she isn't his boss, that actually makes it easier for the two of them, not worse.



I will check the phone but she never uses her phone at home. Thanks


----------



## Numb in Ohio

TBT said:


> Why wasn't the OM let go as well? Was she his superior or is there a double standard? Has she been called on the carpet in the past maybe you're not aware of it?


I would say since she was his superior, she should of been the one to show "office etiquette"... she shouldn't of put herself in this position.


----------



## EleGirl

If it was as she says... the only thing someone else saw was his hand on her arm.. is there any chance that the bank was just looking for a chance to fire her?


----------



## Entropy3000

It is very fortunate that she got fired actually. It would have been better if she quit of course. She was going to need to do that anyway so this makes it so much easier on you.

She needs to go complete NC with this guy. She will need to go through withdrawal from him. It will take some weeks. Any contact after this will start the clock over again. ANY contact whatsoever.

She needs to be completely transparent. This means you will need to have access to all of her email, phone, accounts, facebook, twitter, skype .... whatever.

There is likely more to this but for the moment lets just stick to what she has told you and what you know.

She had enough of an emotional boind with this guy to think nothing of kissing him out in the open. She was the boss for crying out loud. If this is truly all of it, it is enough to confirm an EA. But yes there could be more to it. So you will need to do further investigation.

Going to the gym is great. However in the context of this situation you know she has upped her sex rank and kissed another man at the least. Perhaps she was not always at the gym. You can probably get data on that. I have to checkin at my gym when I go. They have a record.

You guys need to do His Needs Her Needs together. She was getting needs met outside of the marriage.
Also you must do the boundary setting. She crossed some serious bounaries. Again you probably don't know the real truth yet.

I do think EAs happen all the time in the work place. Most people have no clue what the heck they are doing. I am not saying she is so innocent. Do not rug sweep this.

There is more to this but even if there is not you have to place this well or the next time she may be doing similar stuff but just be more savvy about it.


----------



## shelby12

Gabriel said:


> It sounds like you did quite well in your dealings with her. But she was very quick to offer up leaving and divorce. I still think it is very, very odd that someone would get fired for having a too-intimate embrace with no proof of an affair, etc. That doesn't add up.
> 
> I've worked in a lot of professional environments, and I've never seen anyone get fired for hugging someone or touching their arm. Something else is going on.
> 
> I am going to stress this again - you need to contact the OM's wife, ASAP. Your wife got SH!TCANNED from a very good job because of her interactions with this man. This is a very big deal. The OM's wife needs to be alerted that this happened. She will be an extra set of eyes and ears.
> 
> You are still getting the trickle truth, my friend.



Thanks for your help. She only mentioned the word divorce after I went off the rail when I first found out yesterday. It was not by any means the first word out of her mouth. If OM's wife knows nothing I don't know if I want to put her through this. This was a very good job and she damn well better find one quick.


----------



## shelby12

Wazza said:


> Shelby12, I'm with you that the folks on this board tend to expect the worst. That said, two comments.
> 
> First, there is a problem, or she wouldn't have kissed. The problem may be between you two, or it may be an issue of hers that is nothing to do with you. IMO you should consider some counselling as a couple, or for her as an individual, to dig.
> 
> Second, keep your eyes open in case there is more to the story. Don't hang her without a trial, but don't acquit her just yet either. If there is an issue, the sooner you get it the more chance things can be repaired.
> 
> The sad part of keeping your eyes open is you need to do it quietly, since if she is lying, then telling her where you are going to look just allows her to conceal.


Thank you for your advice. Maybe a counselor is the way to go.


----------



## shelby12

Numb in Ohio said:


> Just an opinion.... BUT.... do you think it may have been that they were having a relationship,, it was discovered,and since she was the employer,,, one of them had to go...
> 
> And since she is supposed to be the leader, and is to show appropriate behavior... she was asked to resign?
> 
> Just food for thought...



One did have to go and since she was the boss it was her. I just don't know if it was a relationship.


----------



## shelby12

TBT said:


> Why wasn't the OM let go as well? Was there a double standard applied? Has she been called on the carpet in the past maybe you're not aware of it?


She was his boss was what I was told


----------



## Machiavelli

shelby12 said:


> She make more but not by much. She is very attractive, hour at the gym each day and over the past 6 months she has gotten even better looking. She just came home, wish me luck


So, you're saying she's much hotter than you and getting hotter. Why is she upping her sex rank? Not the place you want to be. You don't mention anything about your six pack? Time to get to work.

Read your post that she's fired. The part about he might have made her feel good needs to be explored. My advice to you is to shut about the elephant and act as if you're rug sweeping, as she so clearly wants you to do. VAR and GPS her car, put spyware on her phone and keylog the computers. 

How's your sex life?


----------



## shelby12

EleGirl said:


> If it was as she says... the only thing someone else saw was his hand on her arm.. is there any chance that the bank was just looking for a chance to fire her?




That is a good point because the President who is new by the way and the only one who wanted her gone did not get along with my wife


----------



## EleGirl

shelby12 said:


> That is a good point because the President who is new by the way and the only one who wanted her gone did not get along with my wife


This might be why she was given severance pay and will be able to get unemployment. The incident was just a good excuse.

Someone saw his hand on her arm and reported it to HR? That sounds like there were some people who were ready to butter up the new President knowing that he was looking for the right moment.

How many women does this bank have at the position your wife was in or above it?


----------



## Numb in Ohio

With all this being new.. I guess some of the best advice is to "Trust but verify"

I would not discount a relationship.. someone doesn't "just kiss" ....

I hope for your sake it ends up being innocent,, but please don't take just her word for it.


----------



## shelby12

Machiavelli said:


> So, you're saying she's much hotter than you and getting hotter. Why is she upping her sex rank? Not the place you want to be. You don't mention anything about your six pack? Time to get to work.
> 
> Read your post that she's fired. The part about he might have made her feel good needs to be explored. My advice to you is to shut about the elephant and act as if you're rug sweeping, as she so clearly wants you to do. VAR and GPS her car, put spyware on her phone and keylog the computers.
> 
> How's your sex life?


We both exercise quite a bit. I play competitive ice hockey, run and bike. I do not have a six pack but I am in pretty good shape for a 49 year old. My wife goes to the gym on Tuesday and Thursday. She drops off our daughter at gymnastics, heads to the gym and picks her up afterwards. She also goes Sunday Morning. The other days of the week she does weight training and yoga at home. She only puts on 4000 mile a year and with her schedule there is no way she is going out. She comes home at 5:15, eats dinner, works out, reads a book and goes to bed. That is it. Sex is good. Could be more but...


----------



## EI

shelby12 said:


> She is very attractive, hour at the gym each day and over the past 6 months she has gotten even better looking.





iheartlife said:


> Okay, I'm not even going to touch that one. Any other takers?


Yes, this one scares the heck out of me. And, I, having recently been the WS who is working very hard on R, try very hard to give the benefit of the doubt.... but I know this is a tell-tale sign. I'm really hoping for the best, shelby, but this is a classic red flag. Now, check her intimate apparel drawer; i.e., panties, bras.... are they all new, sexy? Have you seen her in them? Has your sex life gotten better, more risque... or maybe it has dwindled down to little or no sex? 

I'm hoping for the best. This is a club that no one wants to be a member of.


----------



## iheartlife

shelby12 said:


> We both exercise quite a bit. I play competitive ice hockey, run and bike. I do not have a six pack but I am in pretty good shape for a 49 year old. My wife goes to the gym on Tuesday and Thursday. She drops off our daughter at gymnastics, heads to the gym and picks her up afterwards. She also goes Sunday Morning. The other days of the week she does weight training and yoga at home. She only puts on 4000 mile a year and with her schedule there is no way she is going out. She comes home at 5:15, eats dinner, works out, reads a book and goes to bed. That is it. Sex is good. Could be more but...


Wow, she goes to the gym 3x a week. Not very many people with a family and children can say that.

You say yourself that she's improved her appearance in the last 6 months in particular. Just so you know, this is a red flag for a cheater. In isolation, it might not mean much, but together with her being fired for kissing a man she openly says is emotionally supportive, this is more than a red flag.


----------



## Entropy3000

shelby12 said:


> One did have to go and since she was the boss it was her. I just don't know if it was a relationship.


Yes, there IS an emotional relationship of some kind.
You just do not know the extent.

A female boss kissing a subordinate in public at work is grounds for dismissal. Whether she was liked or not liked or someone had an agenda it does not matter in th least. In fact I have never worked anywhere where there was no politics. Your wife screwed up big time. And at the expense of your marriage. How much so is unclear.

Again you do not know how far this goes. My comment is just based on what she has told you.

They walked her out at 4:30 because they had to make sure her accesses were removed and to make less of a scene. Which is good both for the bank and for her.


----------



## shelby12

EleGirl said:


> This might be why she was given severance pay and will be able to get unemployment. The incident was just a good excuse.
> 
> Someone saw his hand on her arm and reported it to HR? That sounds like there were some people who were ready to butter up the new President knowing that he was looking for the right moment.
> 
> How many women does this bank have at the position your wife was in or above it?



She is the only one. This is most definitely an old boys club. They would golf and my wife would have to work late to pick up the slack. In fact the only reason she stayed there is that our daughters school is only wo blocks away. She make a lot of money but she hated here job. She was very unhappy there. She would always come home very stressed out and even crying at times.


----------



## Entropy3000

shelby12 said:


> That is a good point because the President who is new by the way and the only one who wanted her gone did not get along with my wife


Do not dwell on this. It distracts you from what is really going on. I mean how do you know that the president does not like her? Because she told you so.

The President did not make her kiss this guy. Again you do not know for sure what she was fired for.
It very well could have been harassment or worse.


----------



## shelby12

Entropy3000 said:


> Yes, there IS an emotional relationship of some kind.
> You just do not know the extent.
> 
> A female boss kissing a subordinate in public at work is grounds for dismissal. Whether she was liked or not liked or someone had an agenda it does not matter in th least. In fact I have never worked anywhere where there was no politics. Your wife screwed up big time. And at the expense of your marriage. How much so is unclear.
> 
> Again you do not know how far this goes. My comment is just based on what she has told you.
> 
> They walked her out at 4:30 because they had to make sure her accesses were removed and to make less of a scene. Which is good both for the bank and for her.


Actually she has to go in on Saturday to clean out her desk


----------



## Machiavelli

shelby12 said:


> We both exercise quite a bit. I play competitive ice hockey, run and bike. I do not have a six pack but I am in pretty good shape for a 49 year old. My wife goes to the gym on Tuesday and Thursday. She drops off our daughter at gymnastics, heads to the gym and picks her up afterwards. She also goes Sunday Morning. The other days of the week she does weight training and yoga at home. She only puts on 4000 mile a year and with her schedule there is no way she is going out. She comes home at 5:15, eats dinner, works out, reads a book and goes to bed. That is it. Sex is good. Could be more but...


Keep cool and monitor her behavior and movements. It won't hurt you to find out if something's going on. If your wife is in an affair, you'll find out pretty quick due to the brain-sex chemistry women get high on during PAs. If she comes up clean, you'll get points for not beating her up about the situation. IMHO, it smells to high heaven.


----------



## EI

Harken Banks said:


> Yeah, but I'm still a sucker for the happy ending every time. Why is that? God, I am picturing Donna Reed as his wife.




Hey, I *WAS* the wayward wife, and I'm still a sucker for a happy ending, too, Harken. Although, I find your repeated use of the phrase "happy ending" to be somewhat curious......  LOL


----------



## Entropy3000

shelby12 said:


> Actually she has to go in on Saturday to clean out her desk


Yes and there will be a guard with her. Trust me I know how this works ... it has been a part of my job for most of my life.

I am not trying to daemonize her at all. I was in a workplace EA myself. I did not realize it for what it was until I went through withdrawal. So I have some insight to this situation if it was just an EA.


----------



## shelby12

Empty Inside said:


> Yes, this one scares the heck out of me. And, I, having recently been the WS who is working very hard on R, try very hard to give the benefit of the doubt.... but I know this is a tell-tale sign. I'm really hoping for the best, shelby, but this is a classic red flag. Now, check her intimate apparel drawer; i.e., panties, bras.... are they all new, sexy? Have you seen her in them? Has your sex life gotten better, more risque... or maybe it has dwindled down to little or no sex?
> 
> I'm hoping for the best. This is a club that no one wants to be a member of.


Actually they are new and sexy and I have seen her in them. What do you think?


----------



## shelby12

iheartlife said:


> Wow, she goes to the gym 3x a week. Not very many people with a family and children can say that.
> 
> You say yourself that she's improved her appearance in the last 6 months in particular. Just so you know, this is a red flag for a cheater. In isolation, it might not mean much, but together with her being fired for kissing a man she openly says is emotionally supportive, this is more than a red flag.


I know. I don't know how she finds the time to do it. There is just now way she has time to do anything else.


----------



## Numb in Ohio

shelby12 said:


> Actually they are new and sexy and I have seen her in them. What do you think?


Does she wear them for you,, or to go to work?


----------



## shelby12

Numb in Ohio said:


> Does she wear them for you,, or to go to work?




She wears them just a normal underware


----------



## iheartlife

shelby12 said:


> Actually they are new and sexy and I have seen her in them. What do you think?


Red flag #what, 3? 5? I'm starting to lose track.

I took special note of her gym time on Sundays, when she doesn't drop off / pick your daughter. I'm a bit skeptical about that one.

The gym would have a log of when she is there, becase she probably has to swipe a card to get in. But swinging by the gym one Sunday to just see if she's there or not wouldn't hurt, either.


----------



## Numb in Ohio

Did she always buy "sexy" before, or just regular?


----------



## shelby12

iheartlife said:


> Red flag #what, 3? 5? I'm starting to lose track.
> 
> I took special note of her gym time on Sundays, when she doesn't drop off / pick your daughter. I'm a bit skeptical about that one.
> 
> The gym would have a log of when she is there, becase she probably has to swipe a card to get in. But swinging by the gym one Sunday to just see if she's there or not wouldn't hurt, either.



The gym is one mile from our house. She leaves at 8 am gets home at 9am and comes home all sweaty


----------



## shelby12

Numb in Ohio said:


> Did she always buy "sexy" before, or just regular?


Regular before. I think I know where you are going but my wife is 45 years old and I think this just a 
"I want to feel pretty before menopause kick in" type of thing.


----------



## shelby12

God I need another beer.


----------



## Machiavelli

shelby12 said:


> Regular before. I think I know where you are going but my wife is 45 years old and I think this just a
> "I want to feel pretty before menopause kick in" type of thing.


I won't call troll, but are you really this naive? I'm a physique trainer and half my clients are women over 40. Why do you think they're doing it?


----------



## Numb in Ohio

shelby12 said:


> Regular before. I think I know where you are going but my wife is 45 years old and I think this just a
> "I want to feel pretty before menopause kick in" type of thing.



45 is not old.... and pre menopause could also kick her into "I want to feel young and wanted".... yes you know where I'm going....


----------



## iheartlife

shelby12 said:


> First the kiss. My wife is one of those huggers. Well she hugged him not in a back room but an open area near the offices and that is why someone saw them. They were not trying to hide anything. I asked her what made you look into each others eyes and decide to kiss instead of letting go of the hug. She said I don't know but it was a 2 second kiss and I was mortified after it happened. When they pulled back from each other *he had his hand on her arm and that is what the other person saw and that is why it was reported*.


Just going back to her story for a second. This seems so...odd to me. That she was reported because his hand was on her arm, but no one saw the kiss. And so she was fired.

As discussed, she was fired because she was his boss and he would be able to sue the bank for sexual harrassment if she had been caught kissing him. He would not be fired because then he could sue the bank for a hostile work environment where he was punished when he was getting sexually harrassed. It's a pure liability issue and the kiss would have easily tipped the scales for most companies.

But HIS hand on the HER arm...I guess I'm skeptical about the evil boss done her in. I think there was more to it from the bank's perspective.

to summarize thus far:

1. kiss / clinch

2. with an emotionally supportive man

3. wife getting into great shape, maybe best ever

4. gym for 3 hours a week, no time for anything else extra

5. one of those times she goes all alone on a Sunday morning (how early? I think a lot of gyms aren't open early on a Sunday)

6. brand new sexy lingerie


----------



## Jibril

Machiavelli said:


> I won't call troll, but are you really this naive? I'm a physique trainer and half my clients are women over 40. Why do you think they're doing it?


For sweet, sweet Machiavellian loving?


----------



## Machiavelli

Jibril said:


> For sweet, sweet Machiavellian loving?


Something like that. Most are already divorced or getting ready to be. Some of them are quite hot for their age. It does keep my wife on her toes. I think she's scared of the implants these ladies have.

OP, does your wife have implants yet?


----------



## shelby12

Numb in Ohio said:


> 45 is not old.... and pre menopause could also kick her into "I want to feel young and wanted".... yes you know where I'm going....




But does this translate to an affair?


----------



## iheartlife

iheartlife said:


> But HIS hand on the HER arm...I guess I'm skeptical about the evil boss done her in. I think there was more to it from the bank's perspective.


Just pulling this out of my post because I edited it to point out that if anyone was doing anything sexual, based on what she says was reported, it was him doing something to her. What does she have to say to that?


----------



## iheartlife

Machiavelli said:


> Something like that. Most are already divorced or getting ready to be. Some of them are quite hot for their age. It does keep my wife on her toes. I think she's scared of the implants these ladies have.


Careful there, M. You don't want to lose an eye.


----------



## Numb in Ohio

I just hope he's not grabbing a broom to go with that beer.


----------



## Machiavelli

iheartlife said:


> Careful there, M. You don't want to lose an eye.


Occupational hazard.

OP, when a woman starts upping her sex rank for no reason, there's a reason for it.


----------



## shelby12

iheartlife said:


> Just going back to her story for a second. This seems so...odd to me. That she was reported because his hand was on her arm, but no one saw the kiss. And so she was fired.
> 
> As discussed, she was fired because she was his boss and he would be able to sue the bank for sexual harrassment if she had been caught kissing him. He would not be fired because then he could sue the bank for a hostile work environment where he was punished when he was getting sexually harrassed. It's a pure liability issue and the kiss would have easily tipped the scales for most companies.
> 
> But HIS hand on the HER arm...I guess I'm skeptical about the evil boss done her in. I think there was more to it from the bank's perspective.
> 
> to summarize thus far:
> 
> 1. kiss / clinch
> 
> 2. with an emotionally supportive man
> 
> 3. wife getting into great shape, maybe best ever
> 
> 4. gym for 3 hours a week, no time for anything else extra
> 
> 5. one of those times she goes all alone on a Sunday morning (how early? I think a lot of gyms aren't open early on a Sunday)
> 
> 6. brand new sexy lingerie


She was fired because she admitted kissing a subordinate on bank property. Your summary makes sense but there is no time in the day for her to go anywhere.


----------



## Machiavelli

Numb in Ohio said:


> I just hope he's not grabbing a broom to go with that beer.


Probably time for him to put a load of that sexy lingerie through the laundry.


----------



## shelby12

Machiavelli said:


> Something like that. Most are already divorced or getting ready to be. Some of them are quite hot for their age. It does keep my wife on her toes. I think she's scared of the implants these ladies have.
> 
> OP, does your wife have implants yet?




We joked about that. She said she would never do that plus I am too cheap.


----------



## Machiavelli

shelby12 said:


> She was fired because she admitted kissing a subordinate on bank property. Your summary makes sense but there is no time in the day for her to go anywhere.


How long does it take for a blow job in the car out in the parking lot? Or the storeroom? Don't be willfully blind.


----------



## shelby12

iheartlife said:


> Just pulling this out of my post because I edited it to point out that if anyone was doing anything sexual, based on what she says was reported, it was him doing something to her. What does she have to say to that?


She said it was a mutual event.


----------



## Wazza

iheartlife said:


> Just going back to her story for a second. This seems so...odd to me. That she was reported because his hand was on her arm, but no one saw the kiss. And so she was fired.
> 
> As discussed, she was fired because she was his boss and he would be able to sue the bank for sexual harrassment if she had been caught kissing him. He would not be fired because then he could sue the bank for a hostile work environment where he was punished when he was getting sexually harrassed. It's a pure liability issue and the kiss would have easily tipped the scales for most companies.
> 
> But HIS hand on the HER arm...I guess I'm skeptical about the evil boss done her in. I think there was more to it from the bank's perspective.
> 
> to summarize thus far:
> 
> 1. kiss / clinch
> 
> 2. with an emotionally supportive man
> 
> 3. wife getting into great shape, maybe best ever
> 
> 4. gym for 3 hours a week, no time for anything else extra
> 
> 5. one of those times she goes all alone on a Sunday morning (how early? I think a lot of gyms aren't open early on a Sunday)
> 
> 6. *brand new sexy lingerie*


Which of course her bosses noticed? The mind boggles.

Look, there are certainly some red flags. Maybe a full blown affair, or maybe one that was about to start and got nipped in the bud by this. Or maybe nothing. We don't know.

If it is an affair and they can no longer see each other at work, I'd watch other channels of communications. If something's going on that will be the next evidence.


----------



## larry.gray

iheartlife said:


> Wow, she goes to the gym 3x a week. Not very many people with a family and children can say that.
> 
> You say yourself that she's improved her appearance in the last 6 months in particular. Just so you know, this is a red flag for a cheater.


I've done nothing else to even hint of a red flag, but I've been doing just that and my wife is nervous. 

Nothing nefarious on my part, I want to be in shape, and I want my wife to be unable to resist me. It still makes her nervous even though I tell her that.


----------



## EI

Machiavelli said:


> So, you're saying she's much hotter than you and getting hotter. Why is she upping her sex rank? Not the place you want to be. *You don't mention anything about your six pack? Time to get to work.*
> 
> Read your post that she's fired. *The part about he might have made her feel good needs to be explored. *My advice to you is to shut about the elephant and act as if you're rug sweeping, as she so clearly wants you to do. VAR and GPS her car, put spyware on her phone and keylog the computers.
> 
> How's your sex life?



I love the way you are so vague and subtle when getting your point across!


----------



## Wazza

shelby12 said:


> But does this translate to an affair?


Sometimes.


----------



## Entropy3000

Right now his total knoweldge of this is what his wife told him. The day before she was fired she told him she may get fired for a hug and a two second kiss.

So it was at least this. BUT it is also a minimal explanation where it is plausible to get fired for some kind of sexual misconduct which this was and her husband not going off the deep end. 

So he has some work to do to validate this story of hers.


----------



## shelby12

larry.gray said:


> I've done nothing else to even hint of a red flag, but I've been doing just that and my wife is nervous.
> 
> Nothing nefarious on my part, I want to be in shape, and I want my wife to be unable to resist me. It still makes her nervous even though I tell her that.



I see your point. This whole gym started a few years ago when I rented some movie from Netflix about the American diet and how farm animals are treated. Now I love meat but this documentary was disturbing. From that day on my wife and daughter have not eaten an ounce of meat. Protein from beans and soy really does make for a healthy diet. When you couple that with exercise it really makes a difference and it has really turned my wife into a very good looking 45 year old. She did not start exercising to attract other men, other men may be attracted to her because she exercised.


----------



## Numb in Ohio

shelby12 said:


> I see your point. This whole gym started a few years ago when I rented some movie from Netflix about the American diet and how farm animals are treated. Now I love meat but this documentary was disturbing. From that day on my wife and daughter have not eaten an ounce of meat. Protein from beans and soy really does make for a healthy diet. When you couple that with exercise it really makes a difference and it has really turned my wife into a very good looking 45 year old. She did not start exercising to attract other men, other men may be attracted to her because she exercised.



But, she may have liked the attention she was getting, and when you work closely with people, you build friendships, and "sometimes" you can connect closely with that friend... things happen..


----------



## shelby12

Numb in Ohio said:


> But, she may have liked the attention she was getting, and when you work closely with people, you build friendships, and "sometimes" you can connect closely with that friend... things happen..


You are absolutely correct and this is exactly what happened. The question is how far did it go. I have no evidence other than a kiss and I cannot let a 23 year old marriage dissolve unless I have concrete evidence of something more. I will however check her phone tomorrow.


----------



## aug

As mentioned above, you will need to approach this slowly.

If she is in an affair, she will get in touch with her OM. Monitor her now. Get several voice-activated recorders (VAR). Plant one in her car. Plant another where she will go to talk in private. Monitor her computer - use a keylogger. GPS her car.

Monitor her cell, check the records.

Find out the name of the other man. Talk to his wife privately.

Be patient. If she's having an affair, she'll show her hand.

But for now, there's not enough evidence. Her kiss may be as she said.


----------



## aug

shelby12 said:


> You are absolutely correct and this is exactly what happened. The question is how far did it go. I have no evidence other than a kiss and I cannot let a 23 year old marriage dissolve unless I have concrete evidence of something more. *I will however check her phone tomorrow.*


she has all time in the world to delete the messages by now, especially since she's not working.


----------



## Numb in Ohio

And I worry with it being a "work" thing,, that they mostly communicated at work.. 

You will get better advice with her type of phone,, you can look for deleted texts. 

I just worry she's downplaying something.


----------



## EI

shelby12 said:


> Actually they are new and sexy and I have seen her in them. What do you think?



Well, along with going to the gym and getting fit (or hotter as you say,) new, sexy bras and panties are, also, a classic sign of a physical affair. shelby, I just ended a very intense 15 month EA/PA with an old h.s. love. Well, I should say that my husband ended it when he discovered it, aka as D-Day, 11 weeks ago. I've been married for 28 years and my husband and I are in the process of reconciling. By the grace of God, a miracle or two, along with marriage and individual counseling, weekly, for both my husband and myself, we are doing amazingly well. In spite of what I did, I am very pro-marriage and pro-reconciliation and I am an eternal optimist and want to believe and see the best in people. I tend to avoid new threads about infidelity in the first few days because I really don't feel comfortable dispensing my opinions and hard earned wisdom when emotions are running high, as I'm feeling pretty guilty and remorseful at the moment.

I really want for you to have the best possible outcome, which I assume is to save your marriage. But, first you *must* find out where your marriage actually stands. WW's (Wayward Wives) are champions at trickle-truthing. I know this first hand. She is only going to tell you enough to get by. If you don't dig deeper she won't say another word and will be only too happy to carry on as if nothing ever happened. But, something did happen. She admitted to kissing another man. This is NOT okay under *ANY* circumstances. Then, when you dug deeper, she admitted to "grabbing lunch" a couple of times. The number is likely closer to several dozen times. Then, "she finally said that maybe he made me happy when I was having a bad day and I know it was wrong and I know you can never forgive me and I will move out or get a divorce if you want and I wont blame you." So, he makes her happy when she is having a bad day and she was comforting him when he was having a bad day (and that got her fired?) Your wife is, at least, having an emotional affair (EA.) Even one kiss makes it a physical affair (PA.) My instincts tell me that it is much more than what she has told you. As a former wayward wife, cheating spouse..... that is my gut feeling about this. But, that is only my opinion and I hope for the sake of you and your family that my instincts are wrong. So, what you need to do, now, is listen to the veterans here, who have learned the hard way, how to figure out what really has gone on and how best to handle the situation. Believe me, you will get tons of advice and most of it will be exactly the opposite of what you want to hear. But, they won't steer you wrong.

Keep posting and hang in there. I wish you the very best.


----------



## EI

shelby12 said:


> Regular before. I think I know where you are going but my wife is 45 years old and I think this just a
> "I want to feel pretty before menopause kick in" type of thing.



I'm 48 and that is exactly what I told my husband! Your wife wants more than to feel pretty..... you said she has gotten "hotter" in the last 6 months????? Big Red Flag.


----------



## EI

Numb in Ohio said:


> 45 is not old.... *and pre menopause could also kick her into "I want to feel young and wanted".... yes you know where I'm going....*


_Been there, done that..........._


----------



## MattMatt

shelby12 said:


> That is a good point because the President who is new by the way and the only one who wanted her gone did not get along with my wife


Was this entrapment, by any chance? Was she set up by the president?


----------



## Numb in Ohio

MattMatt said:


> Was this entrapment, by any chance? Was she set up by the president?



She still kissed him...


----------



## MattMatt

Numb in Ohio said:


> She still kissed him...


Yes, but maybe OM was promised her job if he got rid of her? If she is vulnerable, it would be fairly easy to do. 

Migraines caused by stress, crying over work issues could indicate vulnerability.

And that's easy to play on, for an expert.


----------



## Entropy3000

MattMatt said:


> Was this entrapment, by any chance? Was she set up by the president?


Sigh.

How does this help him or his marriage?


----------



## Entropy3000

MattMatt said:


> Yes, but maybe OM was promised her job if he got rid of her? If she is vulnerable, it would be fairly easy to do.
> 
> Migraines caused by stress, crying over work issues could indicate vulnerability.
> 
> And that's easy to play on, for an expert.


OMG. Pulease. Why are you headed down this road?

He needs to be focused on what is going on with his wife.

The devil made me do it ....


----------



## Numb in Ohio

Just too many red flags.


----------



## lovelygirl

shelby12 said:


> They were not trying to hide anything.


This is a good excuse for someone who buys it pretty easily.
Do you think she went out there telling people "Look at me. I wanna kiss this guy"? Of course NOT.

*She was caught unpredictably*. She was so taken by the kiss that she even forgot where she was.
So it wasn't about trying not to hide it. It was about _not_ being _careful_ at hiding it. 






> She said I don't know but it was a 2 second kiss and I was mortified after it happened.





> She said I don't know, it was a horrible mistake. I told her I am tired of hearing you say "I don't know"





> Maybe I am blind but I think this was an isolated incident.


Keep on thinking it was a mistake. 
She's easily walking away with it. 

Was she drunk? No.
Was she on drugs? No.
Was she in a state of shock? No. 

Then what makes you think the kiss was a mistake?




shelby12 said:


> She finally said that maybe he made me happy when I was having a bad day


How many bad days has she had during her working period?
Does it mean every time he made her day happy she gave him a kiss as a reward?
What would happen if he made her day happ*ier*? Would she uncross her legs as a bigger reward for him?


Seriously, with these excuses she's insulting your intelligence.


----------



## Kasler

shelby12 said:


> It has been a long day. No yelling or screaming on my part, I tried to stay calm. First the kiss. My wife is one of those huggers. Well she hugged him not in a back room but an open area near the offices and that is why someone saw them. They were not trying to hide anything. I asked her what made you look into each others eyes and decide to kiss instead of letting go of the hug. She said I don't know but it was a 2 second kiss and I was mortified after it happened. When they pulled back from each other he had his hand on her arm and that is what the other person saw and that is why it was reported.
> My wife lost her job but the man she kissed did not. I asked my wife if the guys wife knew about the incident she said I don't know we have not talked since. My wife did get three months of severance pay and was not fired but asked to resign. She can also collect unemployment but I will not do that. Two of the three executives wanted her to stay on but the new bank president, who by the way is actually a d-bag, wanted her gone. On a side note they did not tell her until 4:30 that she was being let go. In fact the president told HR that if anyone tells her before 4:30 they will be fired, again a d-bag. I constantly asked her why the kiss, why not just let go after the hug. She said I don't know, it was a horrible mistake. I told her I am tired of hearing you say "I don't know", two people do not just by chance decide to kiss each other unless there is an attraction or some past history. She finally said that maybe he made me happy when I was having a bad day and *I know it was wrong and I know you can never forgive me and I will move out or get a divorce if you want and I wont blame you*. I know she did have a lot of bad days; she was overworked and suffered from serious migraines. I told her her stunt put our family in jeopardy and she could lose me and our daughter. I asked her if she ever when out with him and she said twice. Once at lunch to grab some pizza across the street and a second time during lunch for his review. I did everything to try to trip her up but couldn't and she answered every question. In fact it was her honesty that got her fired in the first place. If she would have said that nothing happened when she was interviewed by HR she would still have a job. I am hurt and pissed off that she acted so trashy at work and I told her that she put our family at risk. Ok, so where do I go from here. Well she betrayed me and our daughter. By the way we just told our daughter Mom is getting another job and nothing more. My wife keeps telling me that she made a stupid mistake and that it will never happen again. She loves me and understands that I may never completely trust her again. I have no reason or evidence to believe anything else happened. Maybe I am blind but I think this was an isolated incident. I know that most of you will disagree with my conclusion but I do sincerely appreciate all of you input. This forum helped me more that you will ever know.


Was reading page 8 and I was all like :sleeping: (3:10 am)

Then I read the bold and I leaned in :wtf:

I haven't read the other 6 pages yet but what the hell? 

Her first response to you confronting why she kissed him is to offer to move out and divorce instead of begging for the chance to make it up to you? Whatever way she can no matter how long it takes?



I'm not liking that, not one bit. 

What I don't like though is that you're defending her and justifying every single then shes said and have no real drive to verify. 

You're her husband and love her so I know you WANT so badly to believe everything she says, but theres so many holes in her story and red flags in her actions and you seem in no hurry to have them filled in. You exactly typed that she did not start upping her sex rank for other men because she watched a movie. She and your daughter also became vegans but shes the only one going to the gym. 

I'm sorry but thats huge grasping at straws right there. 

And checking her phone AFTER shes admitted to kissing another man isn't going to do a whole lot of good with all the time shes had to delete the messages. 

You need to get a copy of the report because something is not right. 

If you don't find out everything now and her seeking needs in other men, it will sabotage your marriage later.

From what you posted I an image of you rubbing the broom handle preparing to sweep this under the rug, don't


----------



## chumplady

Now that she is fired, you can call her boss and ask why. Say you suspect she was having an affair, and to please level with you. Is that why she was let go?

If she was this man's boss -- yes, they were totally right to fire her. Otherwise they would be leaving themselves open to a lawsuit. A legally protected one.

I'm sorry. She is totally bullish*tting you.



> She finally said that maybe he made me happy when I was having a bad day and I know it was wrong and I know you can never forgive me and I will move out or get a divorce if you want and I wont blame you.


For a KISS? She's throwing out divorce, and I don't blame you, and he made me happy.... and it was only a kiss? 

No, this is almost the I love you but I'm not in love with you speech. She's in damage control mode. You are in head in sand, I don't want to believe this is my life mode.


----------



## Ansley

FWIW I think there was alot more going on and someone told. Small towns are bad places to have affairs in. If this hug & kiss really happened (not sure about the scenario) Im sure that was the straw. 

Considering the enormity of what happened ...you need to talk to the OM or his wife. 

Im sorry this happened to you.


----------



## Gabriel

shelby12 said:


> Regular before. I think I know where you are going but my wife is 45 years old and I think this just a
> "I want to feel pretty before menopause kick in" type of thing.


Jesus, that's not good. This is a HUGE red flag.

Man, I went to bed and there are 5 more pages of posts. 

You need to dig on this, and yes, I will say it again, the OM's wife absolutely needs to know. She has a right to know, from you.


----------



## Kasler

^ Yes do this and gauge her reaction. If shes even slightly defensive of the man who shes lost her job over, then there was definitely more going on. 

Also the OM's wife has the right to know that hes making emotional connections at work.


----------



## happyman64

Shelby

You have gotten a lot of good advice.

Here is what you know:

A. Your wife got fired for messing with a guy at work.

B. She was his boss and took advantage no matter if it was mutual, she was in the position of authority.

C. The OM did not get fired.

D. Your wife is unhappy.

You need to get the rest of the facts. Before you can decide what course of action to take.

And your wife needs counselling to find out why she ated inappropriately. 

If my wife did that she would not be living at home until she saw a professional counsellor and could tell me to my face "WHY" she was inappropriate with another man.

She hurt you. She has hurt your marriage and family. She has lost her income and is dependent on you.

Go with her to clean out her desk and ask for all the truth.

Find out who the OM is and call his wife so she knows what happened as well.

Stay firm and when she offers a "Divorce" tell her to stop being a F'in coward and give you all the truth. 

*You deserve that from her. The truth!!!!*

HM64


----------



## snap

I find it interesting that you repeatedly call her boss a d-bag despite that if not him, you'd still be in the dark. if anything he done you a favor.

Did you meet him in person to arrive at this conclusion, or is it something your wife was telling you last 6 months?

Give him a call, tell him you appreciate bringing it up to your attention, and that you have to know the extent of the workplace affair she was fired for.


----------



## Badblood

shelby12 said:


> That is a good point because the President who is new by the way and the only one who wanted her gone did not get along with my wife


You are making excuses for her.


----------



## Badblood

shelby12 said:


> She is the only one. This is most definitely an old boys club. They would golf and my wife would have to work late to pick up the slack. In fact the only reason she stayed there is that our daughters school is only wo blocks away. She make a lot of money but she hated here job. She was very unhappy there. She would always come home very stressed out and even crying at times.


More excuses.


----------



## Badblood

MattMatt said:


> Was this entrapment, by any chance? Was she set up by the president?


Matt, you're watching way too much HBO. In this day and age , a Bank President doesn't NEED to entrap, he could just fire her or lay her off, for any reason or for no reason.


----------



## Kasler

^ Many many excuses. She didn't get fired because the boss didn't like her. She got fired because she was caught fraternizing with a subordinate. 

The lower ranked employee can sue for sexual harassment and wrongful termination if he was fired so the only option was for her to get the boot

She IS UNEMPLOYED. That severance pay and unemployment will run out faster than you think. and when she is trying to get another job and they contact the bank. Who wants a potential sexual harassment lawsuit to come work for them? Employers also tend to mark people who do what she did as drama makers. A hostile workplace and tense atmosphere is bad for all the employees which is in turn bad for business. 

Shes put his livelihood and his children's standard of living at stake, he should be much angrier than he is.

Denial is a truly strong reaction in these situations. 

He wants to more than anything believe her so he'll make as many excuses and rugsweep as much as he has to to do so. 

She was overworked, she didn't up her sex rank for other men it was from a netflix video, the president was a d-bag, she had migraines and a bad day, etc.

Also key quotes like 

"I have no reason or evidence to believe anything else happened" 



Uh yes you do cause I've hugged several women who needed one at the time, but never kissed them. Something more is there. A hug doesn't equate to a kiss. Plus they both did it so its not like one person took advantage of the other, they both went for it meaning they both had a reason to believe it would be reciprocated. 

"Maybe I am blind but I think this was an isolated incident."

Because she told you so? :scratchhead: 

Not like she has any reason to lie. :rofl:

Also, have you asked her that if she wasn't going to lose her job would she still have told you? 
I don't recall you telling us she ever confessed her EA so I'm gonna go with no.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Kasler said:


> She IS UNEMPLOYED. That severance pay and unemployment will run out faster than you think. and when she is trying to get another job and they contact the bank. Who wants a potential sexual harassment lawsuit to come work for them?


legally her former employee can't say anything about performance or reasons for termination/resignation. They can only confirm she worked there.


----------



## snap

OP, so far all the information you have is coming from your W's mouth. The only reason you take it on face value is your denial.

Get your butt off the chair and verify independently.


----------



## Badblood

Shelby, I've worked in a lot of offices. People don't get fired because of a single unprofessional act or incident, , but for a pattern of unprofessional behavior. In most offices , people hug, give quick pecks and touch each others arm, all the time. Example: "it's my birthday, .....lots of hugs and maybe a few pecks". Another example: " I'm having a bad day......arm around shoulder, maybe some hugs, etc". In most offices, NONE of this stuff will get you fired. Look at it this way. The company is on the hook for three months severance pay, very likely 6 months health insurance, and unemployment compensation, this comes out to be a fairly large chunk of change. For a quick peck , a hug and a hand on the arm? B*LLSH*T!!!!!! Dude, you are being lied to, and your wife is cheating, and you need to know this and accept it.


----------



## Kasler

Almostrecovered said:


> legally her former employee can't say anything about performance or reasons for termination/resignation. They can only confirm she worked there.




From my thankfully somewhat short experience in corporate business, Theres an awful lot of rumor mongering and a lot of rules get slyfully shirked.

From my old obese boss sweating profusely in a wifebeater cause he never followed company dress code to watching an execs daughter who couldn't calculate her way out of a paper bag be brought in as floor supervisor to a bunch of strangers whose work ethics she doesn't know. :rofl:


----------



## Almostrecovered

Kasler said:


> From my thankfully somewhat short experience in corporate business, Theres an awful lot of rumor mongering and a lot of rules get slyfully shirked.
> 
> From my old obese boss sweating profusely in a wifebeater cause he never followed company dress code to watching an execs daughter who couldn't calculate her way out of a paper bag be brought in as floor supervisor to a bunch of strangers whose work ethics she doesn't know. :rofl:


put it this way if an exec is afraid of a lawsuit for sexual harassment and does the right thing in termination, he would likely not risk a law suit by bad mouthing that employee to potential employers


----------



## dabdab1000

Feel for you, but only you know if your wife is telling the truth or lying to you. After 23 years you know her better than anyone. We are all human and we all make mistakes. The question here is if something did happen has it stopped? If so, can you truly forgive her...my advice would be don't let your pride or fear of change get in the way of your decision, what it maybe.

What i would ask is: has she truly recognised how much she has hurt you and has this incident/smade her realise how much she love's you.

maybe it will make your marriage stronger???

good luck


----------



## Davelli0331

I think the closed feedback loop of TAM affair panic is reaching a fever pitch on this one.

OP, here's what I think is mostly likely. Just IMO of course.
1) Your wife formed some sort of emotional connection with this guy (maybe light EA)
2) She was overcome by this emotional connection while trying to comfort him and they kissed out in the open where someone could see
3) She is his boss and was asked to resign over it because this is _highly_ inappropriate behavior for a boss to show a subordinate
4) You really let her have it when you found out (and rightly so) and in her shame and guilt she offered to move out and/or divorce

Those of you saying that she couldn't possibly be fired for just a kiss may not have worked in a highly conservative, politicized environment. I work for a very old, very conservative company and have seen this sort of thing a few times. It's really not that uncommon.

The reason the guy may not have been fired? He may be the one who reported it, and he may have framed it as _she_ kissed _him_. Where OP should be concerned is if this is true, bc that means she pursued him.

So OP, I think you need to figure out a) if she felt some sort of connection with this guy, b) if so, what drove her to that? and c) how did it become so strong that she risked (and lost) her job?


----------



## CandieGirl

Interesting thread, and amazing replies. Are ya there OP? Dying to know what happened!


----------



## Almostrecovered

Well you have a ton of circumstantial evidence that it is more than just a kiss, and while I understand your mind set in wanting to believe her you do know you need to dig and get to the truth of how long, how much, etc.

I suggest-

1) get a VAR right away and place it under the seat of her car, if you work at home she will have to go to her car to make calls to OM. It won't surprise me if they contact each other to get their stories straight and discuss the firing.

2) do your best to find the whistleblower. Maybe even ask your wife in a manner that seems sympathetic to her to get that out of her, ie. "So who do you think was the rat?" If you can get that name you can try to contact him/her as it's likely that if she will report it to the boss, he/she will tell you what she knows if you ask. Make sure you tell him/her you will keep their testimony confidential.

3) find and contact OMW, it is possible she knows more than you, BFF learned recently that he could have prevented 5 years of being cheated on if his OM's GF contacted him when she shoudl have done as such.


----------



## CandieGirl

Davelli0331 said:


> I think the closed feedback loop of TAM affair panic is reaching a fever pitch on this one.
> 
> OP, here's what I think is mostly likely. Just IMO of course.
> 1) Your wife formed some sort of emotional connection with this guy (maybe light EA)
> 2) She was overcome by this emotional connection while trying to comfort him and they kissed out in the open where someone could see
> 3) She is his boss and was asked to resign over it because this is _highly_ inappropriate behavior for a boss to show a subordinate
> 4) You really let her have it when you found out (and rightly so) and in her shame and guilt she offered to move out and/or divorce
> 
> *Those of you saying that she couldn't possibly be fired for just a kiss may not have worked in a highly conservative, politicized environment. I work for a very old, very conservative company and have seen this sort of thing a few times. It's really not that uncommon.*
> 
> The reason the guy may not have been fired? He may be the one who reported it, and he may have framed it as _she_ kissed _him_. Where OP should be concerned is if this is true, bc that means she pursued him.
> 
> So OP, I think you need to figure out a) if she felt some sort of connection with this guy, b) if so, what drove her to that? and c) how did it become so strong that she risked (and lost) her job?


I work in a huge company that is supposed to be the model of conservatism and is constantly under public scrutiny. I've seen it all, here. From ass grabbing/slapping, hugging, kissing, EAs, full blown affairs being COVERED UP by Senior Management. One Director, was having an affair with his assistant; when the sh!t hit the fan, guess what happened? SHE (the assistant) got transferred to my sister's department, better job, better pay, to hush-up the situation before too many people found out about it. The Director left his wife and family to be with this woman. It happens all the time here!

Most companies SAY they don't tolerate such behaviour. It's not that uncommon is right!


----------



## Hicks

MattMatt said:


> Was this entrapment, by any chance? Was she set up by the president?


Presidents of banks can fire people who work there without framing them for cheating.

Any one can get fired any time for any reason or no reason. There are a very small set of illegal reasons for firing people.

Employment is called "at will".


----------



## thunderstruck

Damn, this thread exploded quickly. Yes, many red flags waving, but I'll just throw out that I've worked hard to up my s*x rank over the past year+. Hit the gym hard, better haircuts, better clothes, etc. I didn't do it to start/continue an affair. I just did it for me. 45 yo, so maybe it was the front-end of a MLC.

I'm in a professional office environment, and I've seen a couple of managers get taken down over just a hint of harassment. Companies don't play around when it comes to that. 

Still seems odd that someone would run to HR just to report that the W had her hand on the guy's arm, in an open area. I work with several women who routinely grab my arm/shoulder...seems to be a common thing with some women.


----------



## Hicks

Married women don't accidentally kiss people suddenly.

She was emotionally connected to him and this connection built up over a period of time. You have no way of knowing if this was the START of something physical or whether somethign physical has been going on for some period of time.

The bank did your marraige a HUGE FAVOR by firing her. This could have shocked her back to reality. Tell her if she ever contacts him again, marriage is over. Then monitor her.

Also, before she even considers looking for a job she has to present to you the steps she is taking to ensure that she never forms a friendship with a man, the steps she is going to take to protect her marriage, the steps and actions she is going to take on a daily basis, for life, to prove to you that she is not cheating.


----------



## Gabriel

Davelli0331 said:


> I think the closed feedback loop of TAM affair panic is reaching a fever pitch on this one.
> 
> OP, here's what I think is mostly likely. Just IMO of course.
> 1) Your wife formed some sort of emotional connection with this guy (maybe light EA)
> 2) She was overcome by this emotional connection while trying to comfort him and they kissed out in the open where someone could see
> 3) She is his boss and was asked to resign over it because this is _highly_ inappropriate behavior for a boss to show a subordinate
> 4) You really let her have it when you found out (and rightly so) and in her shame and guilt she offered to move out and/or divorce
> 
> Those of you saying that she couldn't possibly be fired for just a kiss may not have worked in a highly conservative, politicized environment. I work for a very old, very conservative company and have seen this sort of thing a few times. It's really not that uncommon.
> 
> The reason the guy may not have been fired? He may be the one who reported it, and he may have framed it as _she_ kissed _him_. Where OP should be concerned is if this is true, bc that means she pursued him.
> 
> So OP, I think you need to figure out a) if she felt some sort of connection with this guy, b) if so, what drove her to that? and c) how did it become so strong that she risked (and lost) her job?


I actually think the 1-4 steps above are very plausible. However, OP's W was fired over a touch on the arm, not the kiss. She said nobody saw the kiss.

But there is a detail that nobody has caught yet....

She was asked to resign - i.e. voluntarily terminate. You can't get unemployment if you voluntarily terminate. You have to be laid off or fired. We just went through this with our secretary. Her lawyers are contending she was fired and thus should get unemployment, which really increases our firm's unemployment premiums. Due to a technicality, we are claiming she left on her own, and thus can't get unemployment, which will save us some money.

So, how can she get unemployment if she resigned? Shelby, your wife might not even be able to get that once her 3 months severance runs out. This isn't even about the OM - I'm bringing this to your attention so you can be on your toes financially.


----------



## Davelli0331

Gabriel said:


> I actually think the 1-4 steps above are very plausible. However, OP's W was fired over a touch on the arm, not the kiss. She said nobody saw the kiss.


Nobody saw it *except the OM*. *He* may have reported it bc OP's wife may have kissed him unexpectedly and he felt harrassed (or was just trying to save his own butt).

What you say about unemployment is true, though. Idk if that's something that could be negotiated, but I def agree OP needs to somehow get the full story.


----------



## Gabriel

Davelli0331 said:


> Nobody saw it *except the OM*. *He* may have reported it bc OP's wife may have kissed him unexpectedly and he felt harrassed (or was just trying to save his own butt).
> 
> What you say about unemployment is true, though. Idk if that's something that could be negotiated, but I def agree OP needs to somehow get the full story.


This is an interesting possibility. All the more reason to CONTACT THE OM's WIFE.

Because if this was the case, the OM's wife would be defending her husband vehemently, and telling Shelby that his wife crossed the line and she needs to stay away from them.


----------



## badbane

shelby12 said:


> Actually she has to go in on Saturday to clean out her desk


No she doesn't all she has to do is provide an address and they will mail her stuff to her. It is very unusual that they would allow her back to clean out her desk.
And the reason the new head hauncho and her may not have gotten along is because he knew something was up. 
Also not telling her she gets fired is just part of business. Do you really want some soon to be ex employee raising hell for hours. No the protocol is to notify her of her termination. After notification she would have been escorted to her desk to gather any and all personal belongings. Then escorted to the front door. I work in IT and I am the one who goes and locks the computer and changes the password immediately after they are called into the meeting. 
We aren't even as formal as a bank so I know that her returning to clean out her desk is very unusual.


----------



## Chris Taylor

A few things...

Asked to resign probably because they couldn't justify firing her. Maybe not enough proof, or OM could have also been culpable. Also, as the only woman, she could have turned around and sued for sex discrimination. And that's why she got severance. I'm sure there's an agreement somewhere that says she gets severance in return for not suing.

They could have "asked" her to resign, she did, and then allowed her to say she was laid off for the unemployment.

She was the boss and kissed a subordinate. The president doesn't have to be a d-bag... he just needs to protect the bank. If she didn't get fired, I would guarantee that the OM would have filed against the bank.

Waiting for 4:30 to be let go? Standard practice. IT department gears up to shut off access, files get backed up. No big deal.

Clean out desk on Saturday? Unusual but sometimes done so there are less employees around when she walks in.


----------



## Monroe

shelby12 said:


> She was fired because she admitted kissing a subordinate on bank property. Your summary makes sense but there is no time in the day for her to go anywhere.


Just because "there is no time in the day for her to go anywhere" doesn't mean she isn't having an affair. My husband works from home and had an affair... an emotional affair.

Perhaps your wife is/was deep in an emotional affair that was about to become physical... was caught... fired and now scrambling and lying.

Stop defending your wife and start investigating. VAR, check her phone, check her computer.


----------



## Chris Taylor

shelby12 said:


> She was fired because she admitted kissing a subordinate on bank property. Your summary makes sense but there is no time in the day for her to go anywhere.


My affair was done mostly during lunch time. Believe me, where there's a will, there's a way.

But it sounds like you are taking the prudent steps to make sure.


----------



## thunderstruck

Chris Taylor said:


> My affair was done mostly during lunch time. Believe me, where there's a will, there's a way.


No shyte. We had a couple of married cheaters in my group at work. The guy was just reassigned. When some people in my group were cleaning out his old office, they found a box of c*ndoms. 

I'm thinking we may need to go wipe down our lab.


----------



## LostCPA

There’s a lot of speculation on here about what happened with your wife. The truth is that no one really knows except your wife and the man she kissed. My advice would be to not get too hung on that yet. The truth is probably somewhere between a one-time mistake and a full blown, long term PA.

But, here’s what you do know. Your wife kissed a subordinate and lost her job. This clearly points to an inappropriate emotional connection. Without that emotional component, the kiss would have never happened. It doesn’t even matter who initiated the kiss. They both had to be receptive to it for it to happen and that indicates an emotional closeness that is completely inappropriate for someone who is married. It is by definition an emotional affair.

There are several well proven steps that must be taken to recover from an affair. They are:
1.	No contact has to be established (preferably with a letter from your wife, mailed by you )
2.	You need to notify OM’s wife. Not only does she deserve to know the truth about her life, but if she knows what is going on she can be your advocate to insure no contact on his part.
3.	Your WW must acknowledge that she has weak boundaries around men and take steps to put the proper boundaries in place. This is the only way to avoid this happening again in the future.

Also, you need to go into PI mode and dig for the truth. 
1.	Look at your cell bill and look for texts to strange numbers and verify who these numbers belong to.
2.	Put a keylogger on your computer. You can then see everything your wife does online. This includes all emails from the accounts you know about and from any secret ones that you may not know about.
3.	I would put a VAR in her car and anywhere in your house where your wife spends time alone. This will allow you to hear at least her side of any phone calls. Also, the VAr in her car will pick up anything that happens in her care incase she meets up with OM in her car. It may also reveal conversations that don’t appear on your cell bill indicating that she has a secret pay-as-you-go phone that she uses to contact him.

You may find nothing and that would be great. It would mean that this was a one-time thing. But, if it’s not which is fairly likely than you will have proof to confront her and finally get to the truth. You can never recover until you have the truth and if there’s one thing you can take to the bank it is the fact that waywards lie. If there lips are moving they are lying. I was trusting just like you. Where did that get me? It got me a false recovery and another 6 months of lies. I found that my honest, genuine, caring wife and mother of my children was an accomplished liar and cheater. I hope that’s not your truth, but wouldn’t it really be better to know without a doubt than to find out in 6 months that you were wrong?


----------



## Badblood

Gabriel said:


> I actually think the 1-4 steps above are very plausible. However, OP's W was fired over a touch on the arm, not the kiss. She said nobody saw the kiss.
> 
> But there is a detail that nobody has caught yet....
> 
> She was asked to resign - i.e. voluntarily terminate. You can't get unemployment if you voluntarily terminate. You have to be laid off or fired. We just went through this with our secretary. Her lawyers are contending she was fired and thus should get unemployment, which really increases our firm's unemployment premiums. Due to a technicality, we are claiming she left on her own, and thus can't get unemployment, which will save us some money.
> 
> So, how can she get unemployment if she resigned? Shelby, your wife might not even be able to get that once her 3 months severance runs out. This isn't even about the OM - I'm bringing this to your attention so you can be on your toes financially.


This isn't correct. Most states have "voluntary Layoffs"which entitles the worker to UC, severance pay, and Insurance.


----------



## iheartlife

shelby12 said:


> She finally said that maybe he made me happy when I was having a bad day and I know it was wrong and *I know you can never forgive me *and I will move out or get a divorce if you want and I wont blame you.





Kasler said:


> Was reading page 8 and I was all like :sleeping: (3:10 am)
> 
> Then I read the bold and I leaned in :wtf:
> 
> I haven't read the other 6 pages yet but what the hell?
> 
> Her first response to you confronting why she kissed him is to offer to move out and divorce instead of begging for the chance to make it up to you? Whatever way she can no matter how long it takes?


Thank you, Kasler, for pointing this out.

Unfortunately, I find this very incriminating. She _offers to move out_ and says she wouldn't blame her husband if he would divorce her. Whaaat? Over a "mistaken" "2 second" "peck"?

If this had happened to me--'forced out by my chauvinist bosses who made me work while they golfed'--I don't think I'd be able to contain my righteous anger. I would also be livid that my husband didn't support my side, not suggesting to him that *I* ought to move out.



----------------

On the subject of gym time and how she has no time for anything else--not only does she work out at the gym 3x for an hour each time per week, she also works out at home, presumably at a minimum every other day. Obviously this may not be the case, but it seems that she might not 'need' all that gym time if so. 

Shelby, how is it that you know your wife is at the gym during these hours--I should have just flat-out asked.


----------



## Hope1964

I sure hope, shelby, that you plan on keeping an eye on her for a few months. And I hope you don't find anything more.


----------



## lordmayhem

iheartlife said:


> Thank you, Kasler, for pointing this out.
> 
> Unfortunately, I find this very incriminating. She _offers to move out_ and says she wouldn't blame her husband if he would divorce her. Whaaat? Over a "mistaken" "2 second" "peck"?
> 
> If this had happened to me--'forced out by my chauvinist bosses who made me worked while they golfed'--I don't think I'd be able to contain my righteous anger. I would also be livid that my husband didn't support my side, not suggesting to him that *I* ought to move out.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

That's why her reaction screams that she's guilty that she got caught for something she KNOWS is very, very bad. Where's the indignation and the anger?



iheartlife said:


> ----------------
> 
> On the subject of gym time and how she has no time for anything else--not only does she work out at the gym 3x for an hour each time per week, she also works out at home, presumably at a minimum every other day. Obviously this may not be the case, but it seems that she might not 'need' all that gym time if so.
> 
> Shelby, how is it that you know your wife is at the gym during these hours--I should have just flat-out asked.


:iagree:

I was not understanding at first. So she works out at home AND at a gym?


----------



## thunderstruck

iheartlife said:


> Unfortunately, I find this very incriminating. She _offers to move out_ and says she wouldn't blame her husband if he would divorce her. Whaaat? Over a "mistaken" "2 second" "peck"?
> 
> If this had happened to me--'forced out by my chauvinist bosses who made me work while they golfed'--I don't think I'd be able to contain my righteous anger. I would also be livid that my husband didn't support my side, not suggesting to him that *I* ought to move out.


It could also be a basic defensive move by the W, to throw the OP off track. I say that, b/c I've noticed my W pulling it. The W offers to move out, and the OP changes from anger to swooping in for the rescue..."Nah, baby, slow down, you don't need to move out." Not saying that was his response, but it may have been the W's strategy/hope.


----------



## aug

An alternative may be to have her undergo a lie detector test.


----------



## Hope1964

Even my hubby, who was in no way your typical caught-red-handed wayward, got indignant.


----------



## iheartlife

in response to lordmayhem



shelby12 said:


> My wife goes to the gym on Tuesday and Thursday. She drops off our daughter at gymnastics, heads to the gym and picks her up afterwards. She also goes Sunday Morning. The other days of the week she does weight training and yoga at home. She only puts on 4000 mile a year and with her schedule there is no way she is going out. She comes home at 5:15, eats dinner, works out, reads a book and goes to bed. That is it. Sex is good. Could be more but...


From page 10(?) or 11(?)

I'm assuming "puts on 4000 mile a year" means mileage on the car (?)


----------



## Gabriel

Badblood said:


> This isn't correct. Most states have "voluntary Layoffs"which entitles the worker to UC, severance pay, and Insurance.


State-to-state thing then. Mine didn't.


----------



## Machiavelli

Badblood said:


> Shelby, I've worked in a lot of offices. People don't get fired because of a single unprofessional act or incident, , but for a pattern of unprofessional behavior. In most offices , people hug, give quick pecks and touch each others arm, all the time... In most offices, NONE of this stuff will get you fired.


I spent many years working in a very large organization (federal w/3 letters) and the people who weren't swingers were having ordinary affairs. Nobody.Ever.Got.Fired. The sexual harassment officer came up behind my desk and mashed her very ample chest into the back of my head less than one hour after giving us a 2 hour presentation on sexual harassment. I would have bit one of them, but I was afraid it was the final exam.


----------



## Almostrecovered

which one?

FBI?
CIA?
NSA?
IRS?
EPA?
FDA?
ATF?
DOD?
DOE?
DOJ?
CDC?


----------



## Complexity

Machiavelli said:


> I spent many years working in a very large organization (federal w/3 letters) and the people who weren't swingers were having ordinary affairs. Nobody.Ever.Got.Fired. The sexual harassment officer came up behind my desk and mashed her very ample chest into the back of my head less than one hour after giving us a 2 hour presentation on sexual harassment. I would have bit one of them, but I was afraid it was the final exam.


lmao


----------



## Ansley

I think he's done with it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Machiavelli

Almostrecovered said:


> which one?
> 
> FBI?
> CIA?
> NSA?
> IRS?
> EPA?
> FDA?
> ATF?
> DOD?
> DOE?
> DOJ?
> CDC?


yeah, one of those. But not the CDC. That agency actually fired a woman there for having sex with her BF's two male dogs. My agency would have promoted her for "sexual diversity."


----------



## Hope1964

Machiavelli said:


> yeah, one of those. But not the CDC. That agency actually fired a woman there for having sex with her BF's two male dogs. My agency would have promoted her for "sexual diversity."


Ew.


----------



## thunderstruck

Machiavelli said:


> I spent many years working in a very large organization (federal w/3 letters) and the people who weren't swingers were having ordinary affairs. Nobody.Ever.Got.Fired.


I remember those days, but I guess there were enough lawsuits, b/c now they've clamped down on that. We've been replacing upper management a lot over the past 5 or so years on SH charges, and then their female assistants get reassigned/promoted.


----------



## Machiavelli

thunderstruck said:


> I remember those days, but I guess there were enough lawsuits, b/c now they've clamped down on that. We've been replacing upper management a lot over the past 5 or so years on SH charges, and then their female assistants get reassigned/promoted.


Getting kicked upstairs or retired, but not fired? No change.


----------



## thunderstruck

Machiavelli said:


> Getting kicked upstairs or retired, but not fired? No change.


True, but from what I hear, they do actually do SOMETHING now. 10+ years ago, I'd hear rumors of bosses groping their secretaries...and nothing would happen. And I remember a couple of guys surfing p*rn all day back then. I walked by one time, and one of the p*rn dudes calls the female secretary near him, "Hey, ____, come see this. She looks like you."


----------



## theroad

Machiavelli said:


> So, you're saying she's much hotter than you and getting hotter. Why is she upping her sex rank? Not the place you want to be. You don't mention anything about your six pack? Time to get to work.
> 
> Read your post that she's fired. The part about he might have made her feel good needs to be explored. My advice to you is to shut about the elephant and act as if you're rug sweeping, as she so clearly wants you to do. VAR and GPS her car, put spyware on her phone and keylog the computers.
> 
> How's your sex life?


Your WW was having and affair and it is not over.

She lying to you.

She told she would divorce you just because she kissed OM at work.

Does that make sense?

No.

Does the punishment fit the crime?

No.

Does when a WW want her BH to divorce her mean that she has been having an affair and has the OM ready to be the BH's replacement?

Is the answer a no?

No.

Is the answer a maybe?

No.

Is the answer a yes?

No. The answer is HELL YES your WW is banging the OM every chance she has been able to get. You can bet the farm yes she got caught having an affair.

And her boss maybe a dirt bag but that is the way businesses fire people. Always at the end of the day with no warning. Just enough time is allowed so the axed employee has to gather their coat, coffee mug, pictures on the desk.

You need to marten up. Buy the book Surviving An Affair, by Dr Harley.


----------



## shelby12

snap said:


> I find it interesting that you repeatedly call her boss a d-bag despite that if not him, you'd still be in the dark. if anything he done you a favor.
> 
> Did you meet him in person to arrive at this conclusion, or is it something your wife was telling you last 6 months?
> 
> Give him a call, tell him you appreciate bringing it up to your attention, and that you have to know the extent of the workplace affair she was fired for.


The president is a d-bag. Her boss was wonderful. He was the one that fought for the severance


----------



## Shaggy

shelby12 said:


> The president is a d-bag. Her boss was wonderful. He was the one why fought for the severance


Or they were playing good cop bad cop.

I think anything you hear from her is very suspect until you verify it.


----------



## justonelife

Shelby - I'm glad you are still around reading, although you just seem to be answering the questions that are easy, like saying the president is a d-bag.

I know the people here seem harsh and jump on the "she must be having a full-blown affair" bandwagon. It's not always true. But if you hang around here long enough, you see the same story over and over again. It is amazing and sad how similar the affair stories are and your W seems to fit a lot of the red flags.

1. Upping her sex rank
2. Buying new panties that are sexier than she ever wore before
3. Getting too emotionally attached to another man, turning to him instead of you when she has a bad day
4. Over-reacting when caught in the affair to deflect your attention from the actual problem

This story is just way too common to ignore. The people here really want to help you get to the bottom of this so that you can make appropriate decisions going forward. What is the harm in checking things out a little more? You might be back here a year from now (when all the evidence has been erased) saying that this has been gnawing at you for a year and you wish you had taken the time to get the real answers when you had the chance.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

theroad said:


> Your WW was having and affair and it is not over.
> 
> She lying to you.
> 
> She told she would divorce you *just because she kissed OM at work.
> 
> Does that make sense?
> 
> No.*
> 
> *Does the punishment fit the crime?
> 
> No.*
> 
> Does when a WW want her BH to divorce her mean that she has been having an affair and has the OM ready to be the BH's replacement?
> 
> Is the answer a no?
> 
> No.
> 
> Is the answer a maybe?
> 
> No.
> 
> Is the answer a yes?
> 
> No. The answer is HELL YES your WW is banging the OM every chance she has been able to get. You can bet the farm yes she got caught having an affair.
> 
> And her boss maybe a dirt bag but that is the way businesses fire people. Always at the end of the day with no warning. Just enough time is allowed so the axed employee has to gather their coat, coffee mug, pictures on the desk.
> 
> You need to marten up. Buy the book Surviving An Affair, by Dr Harley.


Actually, I could see a situation where the wife would be fired in this case even if all she did was hug and kiss her subordinate. You have to understand that any boss having an inappropriate interaction with a subordinate opens a company up to sexual harassment lawsuits. The wife is in a position of power over this subordinate, and anything remotely sexual could easily be spun by the subordinate as him having to endure this inappropriate touching because she was his boss. I'm not saying that there was or wasn't an affair, but I could see the wife being fired over something as small as this.


----------



## mina

Shelby I think you're right but also some people here are right, too. 

Someone here always posts "Trust, but verify." What's the harm in a little digging? If she has nothing to hide, great. 

I don't cheat and would never think of cheating. If my husband had ANY kind of suspicion I'd come forth with the email, the Facebook, the phone, and anything else he wanted to see. 

Two years ago he worried a little about my relationship with my barn handy man who lives down the street. I laughed heartily at this but then said "I will put your mind completely at ease". I cc'd him on every txt that went back and forth (not too many), he was informed whenever barn guy was here and welcome to come see what we were doing (and he did), was invited for beer at beer time (and he was there), and then barn guy went to jail (long story.) 

Every letter that went to barn guy and came back from barn guy was put in the kitchen counter for reading by the family. Now that barn guy is out, DH invited him over for a steak dinner and planning for work to be done around the barn since he's on a work release for 6 months and needs something to keep him occupied. All suspicion are RESOLVED and everyone is friends again. Barn guy is getting a LOT of work done that DH really didn't want to do and all is well. 

That's how it works when nothing is being hidden.


----------



## iheartlife

What I'm curious to know is, were you at all startled, disturbed, or upset when she offered 

to move out and divorce, 

and that she would understand if you never forgave her.


----------



## Numb in Ohio

It's probably taking OP a while to catch up on this thread.... we've been busy filling in the pages..

As we all remember after just finding out.. it takes a while for even the "thought" of the one you love having an A to sink in.(except for the few that actually walked in on them, or saw a video)..awful..

We never want it to be true,, we say "she/he wouldn't do that, their not that way, I would know, wouldn't I? "

We can hope it's not true,, we can try NOT to connect the dots.. (this just can't be true, this can't be happening)

We can only hope he keeps our ideas and advice in the back of his mind and discreetly "investigate",,for his own peace of mind,, or truth...


----------



## PBear

shelby12 said:


> The president is a d-bag. Her boss was wonderful. He was the one why fought for the severance


Have you verified anything through any means? Or are you taking your wife's word on everything?

I'm not saying she was in a full-fledged affair, and that you should take up the pitchforks and torches. I am saying that enough doubt has been raised to be concerned, and if she's truly remorseful, going through her cell phone logs and as much computer digging as you can do would be prudent before making any decisions.

C


----------



## Kasler

^ This.


----------



## snap

shelby12 said:


> The president is a d-bag. Her boss was wonderful. He was the one why fought for the severance


You're nitpicking, you understand exactly what I mean. The dude that fired her.


----------



## Machiavelli

thunderstruck said:


> True, but from what I hear, they do actually do SOMETHING now. 10+ years ago, I'd hear rumors of bosses groping their secretaries...and nothing would happen. And I remember a couple of guys surfing p*rn all day back then. I walked by one time, and one of the p*rn dudes calls the female secretary near him, "Hey, ____, come see this. She looks like you."


We didn't have the internet available to the troops until just before I left in 2000, but we did have printed porn. I was in a racial diversity meeting once with about a dozen other managers, mostly female, and the host boss had his secretary pass out a stack of Playboys around the table. Believe it or not. I can't remember what even prompted that action. That boss turned out to be having an affair with that secretary who was married to another guy in the agency, as was the manager's wife. Mind you, this is the govt. My wife used to be in the oil industry when we met and married and the more I learned about how that business worked the more I looked at my wife funny. I had no idea major corporations had hookers on retainer.


----------



## Entropy3000

Badblood said:


> Matt, you're watching way too much HBO. In this day and age , a Bank President doesn't NEED to entrap, he could just fire her or lay her off, for any reason or for no reason.


Absolutely. AND more importantly it does not matter.

If someone were to pay a woman to seduce me ... for whatever gain to them ... and I succumbed ... I would be a total sleazebag cheater. It would not be the fault of who set me up. Only if it was a lie.


----------



## shelby12

Badblood said:


> Shelby, I've worked in a lot of offices. People don't get fired because of a single unprofessional act or incident, , but for a pattern of unprofessional behavior. In most offices , people hug, give quick pecks and touch each others arm, all the time. Example: "it's my birthday, .....lots of hugs and maybe a few pecks". Another example: " I'm having a bad day......arm around shoulder, maybe some hugs, etc". In most offices, NONE of this stuff will get you fired. Look at it this way. The company is on the hook for three months severance pay, very likely 6 months health insurance, and unemployment compensation, this comes out to be a fairly large chunk of change. For a quick peck , a hug and a hand on the arm? B*LLSH*T!!!!!! Dude, you are being lied to, and your wife is cheating, and you need to know this and accept it.




She was fired because she admitted to kissing her employee.


----------



## turnera

You can always ask her to take a polygraph; if she passes, you let it go.


----------



## snap

Since your wife was big fish enough for the president to care firing her, I'd still suggest you to contact him.


----------



## iheartlife

shelby12 said:


> She was fired because she admitted to kissing her employee.


Have you asked her what she meant by the idea that he was emotionally supportive?


----------



## shelby12

dabdab1000 said:


> Feel for you, but only you know if your wife is telling the truth or lying to you. After 23 years you know her better than anyone. We are all human and we all make mistakes. The question here is if something did happen has it stopped? If so, can you truly forgive her...my advice would be don't let your pride or fear of change get in the way of your decision, what it maybe.
> 
> What i would ask is: has she truly recognised how much she has hurt you and has this incident/smade her realise how much she love's you.
> 
> maybe it will make your marriage stronger???
> 
> good luck





Every 10 minutes: I know I hurt you and I am so sorry and I know it will take time for you to earn my trust


----------



## Left With 4.5

shelby12 said:


> Your summary makes sense but there is no time in the day for her to go anywhere.


This is EXACTLY what I said about my STBXH before I found evidence he was having an affair. His routine was the same. Left for work at the same time every day, came home at the same time every day, never did anything out of the ordinary. After some snooping, I found he was calling in sick. Ugh!


----------



## Almostrecovered

shelby12 said:


> Every 10 minutes: I know I hurt you and I am so sorry and I know it will take time for you to earn my trust


aside from the investigation tips I gave a few pages back then start implementing the following:


1) No contact with OM- have her write a no contact letter (see newbie link in my signature), if OM contacts her then she ignores it and tells you of it right away. She should block him on phone, FB, and email

2) complete transparency- she gives up all passwords, lets you look at phone, doesnt delete anything, tells you of her whereabouts, etc. (AND WITHOUT TELLING HER, ALSO VERIFY HER ACTIONS THRU SPYING, this will help you regain trust when you see her actions match her words, if not then you can protect yourself)

3) she demonstrates true remorse- see charts and such in newbie link, no blameshifting, trickle truth, gaslighting and is 100% to blame for the affair and helps you heal in doing what you need and is proactive about it.

4) spend 10-15 hours a week of alone one on one time together with no TV


----------



## iheartlife

shelby12 said:


> Every 10 minutes: I know I hurt you and I am so sorry and I know it will take time for you to earn my trust


This is what we are trying to understand--it takes two to kiss. 

She claimed to you that he primarily kissed her--he intiated it.

She says it was a "peck" and took 2 seconds.

She says she was surprised and immediately regretted it.

So why this enormous remorse? 
Why the suggestion that SHE move out? 
Why did she offer you a divorce?


And how, on God's green earth, did she come up with, "I understand if you NEVER forgive me"

Her remorse in light of what SHE SAYS HAPPENED--not what the rest of us have made up in our heads--is so over the top, worthy of a soap opera.

Shelby--don't you find this in the least bit peculiar?


----------



## Entropy3000

Davelli0331 said:


> I think the closed feedback loop of TAM affair panic is reaching a fever pitch on this one.
> 
> OP, here's what I think is mostly likely. Just IMO of course.
> 1) Your wife formed some sort of emotional connection with this guy (maybe light EA)
> 2) She was overcome by this emotional connection while trying to comfort him and they kissed out in the open where someone could see
> 3) She is his boss and was asked to resign over it because this is _highly_ inappropriate behavior for a boss to show a subordinate
> 4) You really let her have it when you found out (and rightly so) and in her shame and guilt she offered to move out and/or divorce
> 
> Those of you saying that she couldn't possibly be fired for just a kiss may not have worked in a highly conservative, politicized environment. I work for a very old, very conservative company and have seen this sort of thing a few times. It's really not that uncommon.
> 
> The reason the guy may not have been fired? He may be the one who reported it, and he may have framed it as _she_ kissed _him_. Where OP should be concerned is if this is true, bc that means she pursued him.
> 
> So OP, I think you need to figure out a) if she felt some sort of connection with this guy, b) if so, what drove her to that? and c) how did it become so strong that she risked (and lost) her job?


I agree with this to a point. She may indeed only did what she said she did. However, a kiss takes an EA to the physical. The first steps of a PA or an indicator of a PA. A kiss is an intimate thing. So intimate couples who do have sex of all kinds often are no as receptive to kissing. Because kissing is intimate.

Perhaps this was not the first kiss. Very likely. While kissing is not penetration ... it is a physical act. 

This was defined as a two second kiss. Ok so I will assume this was mouth on mouth ... open mouth? Maybe ... maybe not. But if she admits to two seconds it was longer at the least. 

The offense to me is in no way her losing her job over this. Why is she kissing another man. I suggest this was somewhat of a habit and not likely something that happend one off ... even it ehy are not in a PA. 

This is unacceptable that she kissed this guy. Not that she got caught. She was so comfortable she did this in the office. This is typical EA stuff. The fog. They are just friends ......

This is another example of folks looking for a smoking gun when they have a smoking gun in their hand.


----------



## SomedayDig

Okay...putting on the "manly" hat for a second: What dude who works at a _BANK_ has such a difficult day that he needs a hug from his supervisor?! Seriously.

Secondly, I've been reading this since yesterday, and like others I think there is more than meets the eye, Shelby. I don't want to scare you or create innuendo as to what may have happened. I simply want you to know that those of us who have been through exactly what you're describing have a pretty keen sixth sense when it comes to this garbage.

Breathe. Deeply. Then, say something to your wife in a very simple and non-threatening tone like, "So, when are you really gonna tell me what is going on here?"

If you read my threads, you'll see how even with a wayward spouse who is remorseful and wants to reconcile, they will still trickle truth you. It's not cool. Matter of fact, it pretty much sucks moose balls.

You need to have a few hours...1 on 1 with her...and spell out that you MUST have all of the truth if she expects you to stick around.


----------



## shelby12

Gabriel said:


> I actually think the 1-4 steps above are very plausible. However, OP's W was fired over a touch on the arm, not the kiss. She said nobody saw the kiss.
> 
> But there is a detail that nobody has caught yet....
> 
> She was asked to resign - i.e. voluntarily terminate. You can't get unemployment if you voluntarily terminate. You have to be laid off or fired. We just went through this with our secretary. Her lawyers are contending she was fired and thus should get unemployment, which really increases our firm's unemployment premiums. Due to a technicality, we are claiming she left on her own, and thus can't get unemployment, which will save us some money.
> 
> So, how can she get unemployment if she resigned? Shelby, your wife might not even be able to get that once her 3 months severance runs out. This isn't even about the OM - I'm bringing this to your attention so you can be on your toes financially.



The bank said they would not fight unemployment but we don't need it regardless.


----------



## shelby12

badbane said:


> No she doesn't all she has to do is provide an address and they will mail her stuff to her. It is very unusual that they would allow her back to clean out her desk.
> And the reason the new head hauncho and her may not have gotten along is because he knew something was up.
> Also not telling her she gets fired is just part of business. Do you really want some soon to be ex employee raising hell for hours. No the protocol is to notify her of her termination. After notification she would have been escorted to her desk to gather any and all personal belongings. Then escorted to the front door. I work in IT and I am the one who goes and locks the computer and changes the password immediately after they are called into the meeting.
> We aren't even as formal as a bank so I know that her returning to clean out her desk is very unusual.




She is meeting her boss tomorrow morning to clean out her desk.


----------



## iheartlife

shelby12 said:


> She is meeting her boss tomorrow morning to clean out her desk.


So go with her. For one thing, you want to be around to get a full view of the body language with her subordinate.


----------



## shelby12

badbane said:


> No she doesn't all she has to do is provide an address and they will mail her stuff to her. It is very unusual that they would allow her back to clean out her desk.
> And the reason the new head hauncho and her may not have gotten along is because he knew something was up.
> Also not telling her she gets fired is just part of business. Do you really want some soon to be ex employee raising hell for hours. No the protocol is to notify her of her termination. After notification she would have been escorted to her desk to gather any and all personal belongings. Then escorted to the front door. I work in IT and I am the one who goes and locks the computer and changes the password immediately after they are called into the meeting.
> We aren't even as formal as a bank so I know that her returning to clean out her desk is very unusual.




She is meeting her boss tomorrow morning to clean out her desk. They should have told her first thing in the morning not wait 8 hours.


----------



## shelby12

iheartlife said:


> Thank you, Kasler, for pointing this out.
> 
> Unfortunately, I find this very incriminating. She _offers to move out_ and says she wouldn't blame her husband if he would divorce her. Whaaat? Over a "mistaken" "2 second" "peck"?
> 
> If this had happened to me--'forced out by my chauvinist bosses who made me work while they golfed'--I don't think I'd be able to contain my righteous anger. I would also be livid that my husband didn't support my side, not suggesting to him that *I* ought to move out.
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------
> 
> On the subject of gym time and how she has no time for anything else--not only does she work out at the gym 3x for an hour each time per week, she also works out at home, presumably at a minimum every other day. Obviously this may not be the case, but it seems that she might not 'need' all that gym time if so.
> 
> Shelby, how is it that you know your wife is at the gym during these hours--I should have just flat-out asked.


I don't but then I am not 100% sure the Pope is Catholic either. Actually she just left for the gym now, should I follow her?


----------



## shelby12

lordmayhem said:


> :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:
> 
> That's why her reaction screams that she's guilty that she got caught for something she KNOWS is very, very bad. Where's the indignation and the anger?
> 
> 
> 
> :iagree:
> 
> I was not understanding at first. So she works out at home AND at a gym?


Yes


----------



## shelby12

iheartlife said:


> in response to lordmayhem
> 
> 
> 
> From page 10(?) or 11(?)
> 
> I'm assuming "puts on 4000 mile a year" means mileage on the car (?)


Yes, sorry.


----------



## mina

Just to introduce a little levity to the thread, I was working for a great guy - loved working for him. I was a new hire and we had lots of plans to make things better. His boss couldn't stand me. For whatever reason (doesn't matter.) 

My good boss left for a better opportunity about 4 months into my employment there. I had to work for his boss. They searched my laptop PC (scanned, through the network) for incriminating stuff so that they could fire me. The only thing they found was an IM in a log file were I called him a "metrosexual" - they brought me into the office with HR attending. When they told me what they found and they were letting me go because it was "deragotory and sexual in nature" I laughed my [email protected]@ off "Do you guys even know that metrosexual means?? LOL really! OMG" I had a new job 3 days later. 

Just goes to show, when they want you out they'll find something. No matter how small. I still laugh about that one. I had a recruiter call to secure my resume for my old job still with that boss there. I replied back with one of the funniest emails I think he's ever seen: 

"I worked for (company) years ago. (boss) couldn't stand me.

I called him a Metrosexual on IM and they fired me.

I still stand behind my statement.

... Course at the time no one seemed to know what Metrosexual meant or that it's not actually derogatory. "


----------



## keko

shelby12 said:


> I don't but then I am not 100% sure the Pope is Catholic either. Actually she just left for the gym now, should I follow her?


Go to her gym and see if her car is there. Even if its there, the chance of her going off with another car is still valid. If its not, you have your answer.


----------



## the guy

Sure go ahead, maybe she will see you and see how much she hurt you and the lack of trust she created.

I think d-bag boss wanted some and your chick turned him down.

I also thinks its a good sign that she was forthcoming with regards to the lunch dates, and You just may have dodged a bullit INHO.

If she wasn't busted, who knows were this would have gone. I think if it really was more then what your wife said it was they would have been more colvert. I think OM was praying on your wife so I feel this is all a blessing indiguise.


----------



## shelby12

iheartlife said:


> What I'm curious to know is, were you at all startled, disturbed, or upset when she offered
> 
> to move out and divorce,
> 
> and that she would understand if you never forgave her.




I think the part of her talking about a divorce is getting over blown so let me clarify. After she told me about it I began my rant and when she said how sorry she was and so on she started crying and said I don't blame you if you want to divorce me. She never said she wanted to leave or divorce me


----------



## shelby12

turnera said:


> You can always ask her to take a polygraph; if she passes, you let it go.


I know she would if I asked.


----------



## the guy

again go there and not only drive by but stop and appoach her. Inform her that you are still concerned about the marriage.

I'm hoping you get some hystirical bonding and the sex will increase.


----------



## iheartlife

keko said:


> Go to her gym and see if her car is there. Even if its there, the chance of her going off with another car is still valid. If its not, you have your answer.


She also goes 3x a week, including Sunday mornings. I think the Sunday morning one is the most questionable, because she does not have to pick up her daughter when she's done.

I would be more inclined to put a VAR in the car, to go with her when she cleans out her desk to read all the body language everyone will be giving off, and to get her to ask precisely why she was fired in order to verify that the stories line up.


----------



## PBear

And you're still avoiding the question of whether you've tried to verify anything she's said, rather than just accepting her version...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

shelby12 said:


> I know she would if I asked.


 Well, there's your solution, then. If she passes, you can chalk it up to an infatuation and move on with your marriage, and if she fails, then you know your marriage has been a lie and you can move on with dignity.


----------



## shelby12

keko said:


> Go to her gym and see if her car is there. Even if its there, the chance of her going off with another car is still valid. If its not, you have your answer.




She said before she left a few minutes ago that I will stay home and work out if want.


----------



## Numb in Ohio

Just reading back in your posts Shelby,, and if she goes to the gym on Tues and Thurs,, Why is she going today, Friday?

Especially emotionally, I would not be thinking about working out my body,, I'd be thinking of working on my marriage.. Just saying...


----------



## shelby12

Numb in Ohio said:


> Just reading back in your posts Shelby,, and if she goes to the gym on Tues and Thurs,, Why is she going today, Friday?
> 
> Especially emotionally, I would not be thinking about working out my body,, I'd be thinking of working on my marriage.. Just saying...



Because she has no job as of today


----------



## Machiavelli

shelby12 said:


> I don't but then I am not 100% sure the Pope is Catholic either. Actually she just left for the gym now, should I follow her?


Shelby, you'll probably get made first time you try to tail her. You need to do surveillance for 2-3 months. Get a GPS. Also, start working out with her. This will force her into another cover story and timeline.


----------



## keko

shelby12 said:


> She said before she left a few minutes ago that I will stay home and work out if want.


Did she leave or no? Look at her actions not words.


----------



## Entropy3000

thunderstruck said:


> Damn, this thread exploded quickly. Yes, many red flags waving, but I'll just throw out that I've worked hard to up my s*x rank over the past year+. Hit the gym hard, better haircuts, better clothes, etc. I didn't do it to start/continue an affair. I just did it for me. 45 yo, so maybe it was the front-end of a MLC.
> 
> I'm in a professional office environment, and I've seen a couple of managers get taken down over just a hint of harassment. Companies don't play around when it comes to that.
> 
> Still seems odd that someone would run to HR just to report that the W had her hand on the guy's arm, in an open area. I work with several women who routinely grab my arm/shoulder...seems to be a common thing with some women.


So then why would you believe this story?


----------



## Unsure in Seattle

Shelby, please don't rugsweep this. Maybe something more went on, and maybe it didn't but please don't sweep this all under the rug and ignore it.


----------



## SprucHub

shelby12 said:


> She said before she left a few minutes ago that I will stay home and work out if want.


Because she thinks you have a reason not to trust her going to the gym or just to be near you?


----------



## Shaggy

Shelby

Go right now to bestbuy or Walmart. Buy two digital voice activated recorders, lots of people like the Olympus models.

Get Velcro tape.

Attach one recorder under her car seat.

Wait a couple of days , retrieve it and swap it for the other one.

You should be looking right new also at her cell phone online to see if she made any calls once she left the house.

You need to stop explaining her situation and start investigating.

Wouldn't hurt to drive by the gym on the way to bestbuy and see of her car really is there.


----------



## Shaggy

I bet she will be trying to contact and chat with the OM


----------



## Gabriel

He can go follow her to the gym if she wants, but she knows he is hyper-sensitive right now. If she wanted to keep this going, it wouldn't be right now, in person. Too risky. She would lay low for a few days, IMO.

But it would likely make Shelby feel better if he could verify she was there for peace of mind. The VAR in the car right now while she is working out is a good idea. Another safeguard.

Let's say this really is what she says. There still is a problem. There is something weak in her character that would prompt her to kiss another man. She needs to stop saying "I don't know" and figure out why she did that, for real.

And you guys need marriage counseling for sure.


----------



## Entropy3000

lordmayhem said:


> :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:
> 
> That's why her reaction screams that she's guilty that she got caught for something she KNOWS is very, very bad. Where's the indignation and the anger?
> 
> 
> 
> :iagree:
> 
> I was not understanding at first. So she works out at home AND at a gym?


I do this. I go to the GYM on Sundays. I workout in my house during the week.


----------



## SomedayDig

True, Gabriel. One just does not kiss someone because it "just happened". There is usually some kind of flirting or history.

Example: Regret met the xOM at a party with our friends when I was flying a trip. They flirted...not just because they were available to each other either. They flirted because each of them was out looking. Regret was just looking for an opportunity. So was the xOM. Guess what...it started out with a simple kiss.

A perfect storm thus was created.


----------



## justonelife

Your wife admittedly kissed another man and you really don't seem too upset about it. All you do is defend her actions. Maybe you are too much of a nice guy? She might have been looking for a young, alpha male to make her feel young and desired again? 

Maybe not but just curious. Whether there is more going on or not, you seem awfully calm and ready to jump to her defense rather than really looking at the situation and what lead to this kiss.


----------



## Shaggy

I think the firing actually happening even surprised her, so I would expect her to reach out to either a toxic friend who knows the truth or the OM to talk about what she is going through.

That's why he needs those vars. she might have used a work phone before but she lost that so she might be using her own.


----------



## iheartlife

Entropy3000 said:


> I do this. I go to the GYM on Sundays. I workout in my house during the week.


No one is saying in isolation that this is a red flag. She works out 7 days a week, and has only increased her fitness in the last 6 months per the OP. The OP is maintaining that she has no time to meet anyone else because her schedule is so tight. Plus the sexy lingerie. Plus kissing a man she acknowledges some level of emotional attachment to...plus a rather strong reaction (no matter how OP wants to spin it) of offering to leave and divorce him over a kiss.

Like the others, I am perfectly capable of believing it all unfolded just as she said. But I would still want to verify why my wife was emotionally attached to a subordinate enough to risk her job with a kiss.


----------



## shelby12

I am all caught up so let me tell you what happened. My wife was on the computer all morning getting her resume together so now I have some time. Got up early this morning, showered, got dressed walked into the living room where she was and asked for his name. She told me his name. I asked where does he live. She replied what are you going to do. I simply asked again and she told me. I asked what type of car does he drive. She told me. I asked her what time does he get to work. She gets nervous because she thinks I am going to take this guy out. I told her I will not touch him. She said please don't do anything on bank property but then told me. My plan was to go to the parking lot just to check out this guy, a talk would come later, go home and grab her phone and see if she called or sent a text to him warning him that I was coming. So I am sitting in the parking lot and here he comes. Wouldn't you know it he parks right next to be. Early 30's good looking guy. I figured I might as well get this over with. I get out of my car and call out his name. He looks at me and says hello. I tell him my first name and he was a deer in headlights. I said I am not going to hit you or tell your wife. He whispered something along the line of "I am so sorry". He was very shaken. I told him I want to know what happened. He said it was the end of the day and he was having some problems with one of his rental properties and was having a bad day when my wife came up to him and asked what was wrong. He told her, they hugged, then the kiss. He told me nothing happened before or since. I told him that my wife was fired and he said I know and I feel horrible. Everything was at a whisper he was extremely shaken. I told him I will not ruin your marriage and walked away. He walked back to his car and started to cry. I went home grabbed her cell phone and no call or messages sent. We talked this morning I have known her for 26 years so I can read her like a book. Of course I want to believe her but at the same time I do not want to be taken for a fool. I got nothing that tells me this went any further. Maybe sometimes a stupid mistake is just that, a stupid mistake.


----------



## thunderstruck

iheartlife said:


> Like the others, I am perfectly capable of believing it all unfolded just as she said. But I would still want to verify why my wife was emotionally attached to a subordinate *enough to risk her job with a kiss*.


Agree, but train wrecks like this seldom include any logic by the cheater.


----------



## shelby12

keko said:


> Did she leave or no? Look at her actions not words.


I told her to go to the gym.


----------



## shelby12

SprucHub said:


> Because she thinks you have a reason not to trust her going to the gym or just to be near you?


 Trust


----------



## Entropy3000

shelby12 said:


> She is meeting her boss tomorrow morning to clean out her desk. They should have told her first thing in the morning not wait 8 hours.


No this is how we do this in the industry. There is process. Computer access ahs to be handled. We are talking financial industry here. There are legalities that must play out.

I have hired folks, I have fired folks and I have had to be the one to cut off their access. Oh and I have been laid off too. Before an employee is fired and leaves the premises access has to be dealt with. This includes but not limited to badges, account numbers and computer access across branches local and remote. 

Often they want to go over the desk contents before it leaves to ensure nothing inappropriate leaves. Also mopst places want to avoid the scene. A person just leaves at the end of the day and does not return. 

All sorts of reasons for this.


----------



## Entropy3000

shelby12 said:


> I don't but then I am not 100% sure the Pope is Catholic either. Actually she just left for the gym now, should I follow her?


Yes. I would follow after her. 

This is not about being 100% anything. The fact is that you don't know what is going on. Your wife did something unfaithful at the least. You have no idea to what extent.


----------



## shelby12

Entropy3000 said:


> No this is how we do this in the industry. There is process. Computer access ahs to be handled. We are talking financial industry here. There are legalities that must play out.
> 
> I have hired folks, I have fired folks and I have had to be the one to cut off their access. Oh and I have been laid off too. Before an employee is fired and leaves the premises access has to be dealt with. This includes but not limited to badges, account numbers and computer access across branches local and remote.
> 
> Often they want to go over the desk contents before it leaves to ensure nothing inappropriate leaves. Also mopst places want to avoid the scene. A person just leaves at the end of the day and does not return.
> 
> All sorts of reasons for this.




I understand what you are saying but why not grab her as she enter the building and tell her. By waiting until the end of the day she could have done some damage during the course of the day if she wanted to.


----------



## Chaparral

Hes early thirties and she's middle forties and it was just a kiss. Polygraph is the ONLY way you will ever be confident you know what is going on. Sorry you are here, hope things work out better for your family since she has at least gotten away frim a job she hates.

BTW there are lots of theads here from men that let it go and years later find they ar enot over it and do not have the chance to find out what really happened. You are in shock. If you take the adviec you have been given, wll, I just don't see the downside to doing a little digging but I do see the upside. Unless you don't believe her, but are afraid of what you will find.

Good luck and prayers


----------



## Entropy3000

shelby12 said:


> I am all caught up so let me tell you what happened. My wife was on the computer all morning getting her resume together so now I have some time. Got up early this morning, showered, got dressed walked into the living room where she was and asked for his name. She told me his name. I asked where does he live. She replied what are you going to do. I simply asked again and she told me. I asked what type of car does he drive. She told me. I asked her what time does he get to work. She gets nervous because she thinks I am going to take this guy out. I told her I will not touch him. She said please don't do anything on bank property but then told me. My plan was to go to the parking lot just to check out this guy, a talk would come later, go home and grab her phone and see if she called or sent a text to him warning him that I was coming. So I am sitting in the parking lot and here he comes. Wouldn't you know it he parks right next to be. Early 30's good looking guy. I figured I might as well get this over with. I get out of my car and call out his name. He looks at me and says hello. I tell him my first name and he was a deer in headlights. I said I am not going to hit you or tell your wife. He whispered something along the line of "I am so sorry". He was very shaken. I told him I want to know what happened. He said it was the end of the day and he was having some problems with one of his rental properties and was having a bad day when my wife came up to him and asked what was wrong. He told her, they hugged, then the kiss. He told me nothing happened before or since. I told him that my wife was fired and he said I know and I feel horrible. Everything was at a whisper he was extremely shaken. I told him I will not ruin your marriage and walked away. He walked back to his car and started to cry. I went home grabbed her cell phone and no call or messages sent. We talked this morning I have known her for 26 years so I can read her like a book. Of course I want to believe her but at the same time I do not want to be taken for a fool. I got nothing that tells me this went any further. Maybe sometimes a stupid mistake is just that, a stupid mistake.


Good deal. I have no idea why you negotiated yourself out of notifying his wife. 

What you do not know is whether they just got their story down. 

But a good start to an investigation.


----------



## Chaparral

BTW people find time to cheat. Leave work early, go to work early, go somewhere instead of where they say they are going(gym). Stay late for work. Go in on Sat. Go to a motel for lunch........its endless.


----------



## Entropy3000

shelby12 said:


> Trust


Marriage is about Love and Respect. Trust is a by-product. 

You trusted her not to disrespect you by kissing another man and then lose her job over it. She broke that trust.

Just saying Trust is rug sweeping. I am not beating on you. No doubt you are still numb from shock.


----------



## WhereAmI

I wish you would have asked him more about their relationship-how often they were alone, where they were, etc. Comparing stories could have brought things to light.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

You know your wife has no problem kissing other men. You might want to go back a few years on those phone records.


----------



## Entropy3000

shelby12 said:


> I understand what you are saying but why not grab her as she enter the building and tell her. By waiting until the end of the day she could have done some damage during the course of the day if she wanted to.


Because during the day they are shutting down her access methodically. This is how it works. It is a scenario that plays itself out all too often accross the industry each and every day. Many approbvals and notifications. They cannot afford to take a chance at leaving something open.

They were required to follow HR process. Telling her she is fired would give her a chance to do damage remotely. Also while certain things are 24 x 7 not all thing happen on offshore hours. They are handled by folks on the day shift that relate to HR, security, IT and so on. The exit interview is important. They needed to assess her reaction. She probably got severance because she resigned. 

My point is that this played out in a very standard way for for very standard reasons. This is how folks are handled. No special treatment good or bad. Yes is varies from place to place for certain specifics but again the financial industry has extra requirements for sure.

They had to work out the severance and so on. No doubt when they fired her they handed her the termination package or very close to that time. They are dozens of things that must occur in reasonable sequence.

I am not sure why this bothers you so much. There is no one else to blame for this situation.


----------



## Gabriel

shelby12 said:


> I am all caught up so let me tell you what happened. My wife was on the computer all morning getting her resume together so now I have some time. Got up early this morning, showered, got dressed walked into the living room where she was and asked for his name. She told me his name. I asked where does he live. She replied what are you going to do. I simply asked again and she told me. I asked what type of car does he drive. She told me. I asked her what time does he get to work. She gets nervous because she thinks I am going to take this guy out. I told her I will not touch him. She said please don't do anything on bank property but then told me. My plan was to go to the parking lot just to check out this guy, a talk would come later, go home and grab her phone and see if she called or sent a text to him warning him that I was coming. So I am sitting in the parking lot and here he comes. Wouldn't you know it he parks right next to be. Early 30's good looking guy. I figured I might as well get this over with. I get out of my car and call out his name. He looks at me and says hello. I tell him my first name and he was a deer in headlights. I said I am not going to hit you or tell your wife. He whispered something along the line of "I am so sorry". He was very shaken. I told him I want to know what happened. He said it was the end of the day and he was having some problems with one of his rental properties and was having a bad day when my wife came up to him and asked what was wrong. He told her, they hugged, then the kiss. He told me nothing happened before or since. I told him that my wife was fired and he said I know and I feel horrible. Everything was at a whisper he was extremely shaken. I told him I will not ruin your marriage and walked away. He walked back to his car and started to cry. I went home grabbed her cell phone and no call or messages sent. We talked this morning I have known her for 26 years so I can read her like a book. Of course I want to believe her but at the same time I do not want to be taken for a fool. I got nothing that tells me this went any further. Maybe sometimes a stupid mistake is just that, a stupid mistake.


You did everything right except for one thing. Why did you say you weren't going to ruin his marriage?? I'm not saying you SHOULD ruin his marriage - but his wife has a right to know that your wife lost her job because of her interaction with her husband. It's a very big deal. It could ruin your wife's career.

I do like the confrontation otherwise. Very alpha. 

Let's face it. Your wife was attracted to this man. She made herself more fetching by upping her workouts, and bought lingerie because he excited her. Then she acted on it. Do not rugweep this. The bank probably saved this from going much further.

I tend to believe it didn't go beyond this - but I think your wife was getting ready for it, big time. Wanted it to happen deep down. You need to pin her to the wall on that aspect. Ask her why she had the new undies - ask her why the recent rush to get more attractive. She needs to come clean on that.

Then you need to deal with it how you see fit. I recommend MC.


----------



## Gabriel

Entropy3000 said:


> Because during the day they are shutting down her access methodically. This is how it works. It is a scenario that plays itself out all too often accross the industry each and every day.
> 
> They were required to follow HR process. Telling her she is fired would give her a chance to do damage remotely. Also while certain things are 24 x 7 not all thing happen on offshore hours. They are handled by folks on the day shift that relate to HR, security, IT and so on. The exit interview is important. They needed to assess her reaction. She probably got severance because she resigned.
> 
> My point is that this played out in a very standard way for for very standard reasons. This is how folks are handled. No special treatment good or bad. Yes is varies from place to place for certain specifics but again the financial industry has extra requirements for sure.
> 
> They had to work out the severance and so on. No doubt when they fired her they handed her the termination package or very close to that time. They are dozens of things that must occur in reasonable sequence.
> 
> I am not sure why this bothers you so much. There is no one else to blame for this situation.


:iagree::iagree:

Shelby - stop focusing on this minor detail. E3K is right.


----------



## SomedayDig

Well, Shelby...I guess you have your answer.

He walked back to his car and started to cry. Guess he needed a hug.

Do yourself a favor, brother: Start the communication with your wife about why she fell into this dude the way she did. Do it today. You're a teacher out for summer and she's unemployed. Talk to her, man. Nip this crap now before something really bad happens. Wives don't just kiss cuz they get caught up in a moment.


----------



## Chris Taylor

Here's another thing you can do. Some states require that they provide copies of your personnel file to you. If that is the case in your state, go to the bank with her, no advance notice, ask to see HR with her and ask for her personnel file.

If there was more than a reference to a kiss and hug, then you know there was more going on.

You can tell your wife that it's important to see what her personnel records will say when she is looking for another job.

If she hesitates (knowing what's in it), it's another clue.


----------



## shelby12

Gabriel said:


> You did everything right except for one thing. Why did you say you weren't going to ruin his marriage?? I'm not saying you SHOULD ruin his marriage - but his wife has a right to know that your wife lost her job because of her interaction with her husband. It's a very big deal. It could ruin your wife's career.
> 
> I do like the confrontation otherwise. Very alpha.
> 
> Let's face it. Your wife was attracted to this man. She made herself more fetching by upping her workouts, and bought lingerie because he excited her. Then she acted on it. Do not rugweep this. The bank probably saved this from going much further.
> 
> I tend to believe it didn't go beyond this - but I think your wife was getting ready for it, big time. Wanted it to happen deep down. You need to pin her to the wall on that aspect. Ask her why she had the new undies - ask her why the recent rush to get more attractive. She needs to come clean on that.
> 
> Then you need to deal with it how you see fit. I recommend MC.



I did ask her and she said it was for me. She said she felt ignored sometimes and wanted me to still be attracted to her


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## Hope1964

She could have just deleted any call logs or messages from her phone right after she made them.

Are you able to go online and see whether she sent or called anything? Do you know his number?

I also don't agree with not telling OM's wife, but hey, I don't know if I would have either.


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## shelby12

Gabriel said:


> You did everything right except for one thing. Why did you say you weren't going to ruin his marriage?? I'm not saying you SHOULD ruin his marriage - but his wife has a right to know that your wife lost her job because of her interaction with her husband. It's a very big deal. It could ruin your wife's career.
> 
> I do like the confrontation otherwise. Very alpha.
> 
> Let's face it. Your wife was attracted to this man. She made herself more fetching by upping her workouts, and bought lingerie because he excited her. Then she acted on it. Do not rugweep this. The bank probably saved this from going much further.
> 
> I tend to believe it didn't go beyond this - but I think your wife was getting ready for it, big time. Wanted it to happen deep down. You need to pin her to the wall on that aspect. Ask her why she had the new undies - ask her why the recent rush to get more attractive. She needs to come clean on that.
> 
> Then you need to deal with it how you see fit. I recommend MC.




The guy has two young kids and I hope this scared the **** out of him so will will never cheat on his wife again. I guess I gave him and his family a second chance


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## Hope1964

shelby12 said:


> The guy has two young kids and I hope this scared the **** out of him so will will never cheat on his wife again. I guess I gave him and his family a second chance


No, what you've done is given HIM another chance......to cheat. By not exposing, he isn't suffering any consequences, so why would he stop??


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## Gabriel

Chris Taylor said:


> Here's another thing you can do. Some states require that they provide copies of your personnel file to you. If that is the case in your state, go to the bank with her, no advance notice, ask to see HR with her and ask for her personnel file.
> 
> If there was more than a reference to a kiss and hug, then you know there was more going on.
> 
> You can tell your wife that it's important to see what her personnel records will say when she is looking for another job.
> 
> If she hesitates (knowing what's in it), it's another clue.


I really like this idea about the records. Also, it sounds like you guys are both "off" now (although school starts soon). Use these next couple of weeks to communicate a lot. Your daughter is old enough to hang at home by herself - go to a bar and have a couple of beers with your wife, and really, really talk. 

She's probably not going to want to talk about it after awhile - so you need to capitalize on this window. Tell her you want to hash everything out now and not drag it out. Tell her if you find out later that she was hiding something, you will contact an attorney (or some other meaningful threat). Some people call this the get out of jail free card. It's a tactic to make them come clean right now. Say the sooner you guys get all the details out there and talk it through, the better it will be for your marriage. 

And go to counseling anyway - there is something behind a kiss, every time. Whether it's just this guy, or something inside her that is broken.


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## WhereAmI

shelby12 said:


> The guy has two young kids and I hope this scared the **** out of him so will will never cheat on his wife again. I guess I gave him and his family a second chance


No, you gave him a second chance. The only person who should be able to do that is his wife. Right now she may have no idea that her husband has (at a minimum) a boundary issue. She cannot help him fix this if she knows nothing about it. She deserves the truth. Besides he may have already been unfaithful and this could be his third or forth chance... You are choosing to be a part of the deception of his wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aug

shelby12 said:


> The guy has two young kids and I hope this scared the **** out of him so will will never cheat on his wife again. I guess I gave him and his family a second chance


Well it seems you made up your mind about his innocence and thus your wife.

I think that's too quick and will screw your mind for quite a while. I think you need more data before you can come to this decision.

Try to work this out logically. Realize the bottom line is that your wife and the guy had an strong attraction for each other.


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## OldWolf57

Shelby why are you in this section. This is Coping With Infidelity and your situtiation from my reading is not there yet.

To be truthful ladies and gents, I believe her. Not saying Iv'e never been wrong.
Shelby this section will get you OUR opinion for dealing with possible EA and PA. You have shot down and defended. 
So,,, why are you here ???


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## Harken Banks

These realizations can take a while to sink in.


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## Machiavelli

IMHO *there is much more to this story.*

But for the moment Project Rugsweep has been implemented, since it doesn't look like surveillance devices are going to be deployed. That being the case, I recommend that Shelby do some heavy reading so he can change his behaviors to make himself more attractive to his PWW:

First find out where you are on the socio-sexual attraction scale.


Understand the true behavioral nature of Women (as opposed to what they say) by reading Roissy.

Find out how to use your wife's hardwired sexual responses via the limbic system to your advantage in marriage by reading MMSL and NMMNG.


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## Thor

Trust but verify. This one could go either way yet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64

shelby12 said:


> The guy has two young kids and I hope this scared the **** out of him so will will never cheat on his wife again. I guess I gave him and his family a second chance


That is funny shelby. No one did this for you.

Please listen to the group consensus.

Your wife did none of this for you. All she did was screw up, cheat with maybe just a kiss and get fired.

You need to get in her head. You need counselling together to nip this in the bud.

And most of all you need to verify her actions.

So get the var's and verify.

Talk to her man and help her fond out why she did this.

And yes, I am glad you confronted him. You user your balls and brains.

Keep using them on your wife now.

HM64


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## spudster

Here is a suggestion shelby12:

If you really want to test your wife's loyalty to you, tell her to send a certified, hand written letter to the OMW, outlining what happened, and why she kissed the OM, along with a complete apology for endangering the OMW's marriage and family. 

Tell your wife she either does this or she can pack her bags and leave.


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## MattMatt

Entropy3000 said:


> Sigh.
> 
> How does this help him or his marriage?


Because (sigh!) it explores all options?


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## Phenix70

I was an HR manager for 5 years, my take on this is that there is more to the story than what your wife is sharing. 
Even if he was her subordinate, he should have been let go as well since the company policy more than likely would have been for no fraternization amongst employees. 
Which leads me to ask you, have you questioned the supposed witness?
After all, it was the testimony from this person that allegedly got your wife, but not her "friend", fired.
That's the person I would want to speak with.


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## MattMatt

Hicks said:


> Presidents of banks can fire people who work there without framing them for cheating.
> 
> Any one can get fired any time for any reason or no reason. There are a very small set of illegal reasons for firing people.
> 
> Employment is called "at will".


Quite clearly US employment law is somewhat different to UK employment law.

There seem to be cultural/legal differences that I was not fully aware of.


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## MattMatt

Machiavelli said:


> yeah, one of those. But not the CDC. That agency actually fired a woman there for having sex with her BF's two male dogs. My agency would have promoted her for "sexual diversity."


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## MattMatt

thunderstruck said:


> True, but from what I hear, they do actually do SOMETHING now. 10+ years ago, I'd hear rumors of bosses groping their secretaries...and nothing would happen. And I remember a couple of guys surfing p*rn all day back then. I walked by one time, and one of the p*rn dudes calls the female secretary near him, "Hey, ____, come see this. She looks like you."


Had a colleague who said to the boss and me: "Hey! Would you like to see my wife's website?"

We agreed. I wished we hadn't. She was his wife, but her site was a cuckold site!  My boss, his face was a picture! But our colleague actually looked proud of his wife and her site!

Later I said to my boss: "I think we need some mind bleach!" He agreed.


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## tacoma

Shelby,

I just want to chime in here that there is no way HR busted them the very first time they kissed.
There is an affair here in some way.

Get a copy if her entire employee file so you can see whether there has been other warnings. HR will give her a copy if she requests it.
Definitely get a copy of this complaint in particular.
Check phone records,bank statement,CC statements.
Ask to see her phone, what kind of phone does she use?
Plant a VAR in her car


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## shelby12

My daughter is at work so we have been alone today. Several times my wife has sat on my lap looked into my eyes and said you are the only man I have ever been with and the only man I have ever loved. I love you very much and I am sorry for what I did. At this point I believe her. She has answered every question and hell I even told her to kiss me like she kissed him. It was about a one second kiss and then she pushed me away. She said that was it but maybe a little longer. She is honest to a fault at times. Now I know many people have mentioned GPS, check emails, phone records and so on. I thought about it and I have come to the conclusion that I cannot live my life doing that. I cannot spy on my wife for the next week, month, or year. That is no way to live. I would just as soon get a divorce. I know what she did was horrible but she is still my wife and not some criminal. She told me it was a horrible mistake and I believe her. I want to put this behind us and move on with life. Now, if I am wrong and she lied to me I will either find out or not find out someday. If I find out she lied she is gone, no discussion. If if she is cheating and I never find out then, well, I never find out. I know I will be flamed for this but I forgive her and believe her and I want to move on.


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## shelby12

tacoma said:


> Shelby,
> 
> I just want to chime in here that there is no way HR busted them the very first time they kissed.
> There is an affair here in some way.
> 
> Get a copy if her entire employee file so you can see whether there has been other warnings. HR will give her a copy if she requests it.
> Definitely get a copy of this complaint in particular.
> Check phone records,bank statement,CC statements.
> Ask to see her phone, what kind of phone does she use?
> Plant a VAR in her car




If this is not the first time they why didn't both of them get fired?


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## Harken Banks

shelby12 said:


> My daughter is at work so we have been alone today. Several times my wife has sat on my lap looked into my eyes and said you are the only man I have ever been with and the only man I have ever loved. I love you very much and I am sorry for what I did. At this point I believe her. She has answered every question and hell I even told her to kiss me like she kissed him. It was about a one second kiss and then she pushed me away. She said that was it but maybe a little longer. She is honest to a fault at times. Now I know many people have mentioned GPS, check emails, phone records and so on. I thought about it and I have come to the conclusion that I cannot live my life doing that. I cannot spy on my wife for the next week, month, or year. That is no way to live. I would just as soon get a divorce. I know what she did was horrible but she is still my wife and not some criminal. She told me it was a horrible mistake and I believe her. I want to put this behind us and move on with life. Now, if I am wrong and she lied to me I will either find out or not find out someday. If I find out she lied she is gone, no discussion. If if she is cheating and I never find out then, well, I never find out. I know I will be flamed for this but I forgive her and believe her and I want to move on.


Good stuff. Truly. But read your words above, read my thread http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/50217-initial-foray.html#post875301, see where I wrote pretty much the same as you wrote above, then read your thread again. I wish you, your wife, and your daughter the best. I am optimistic. Still, do yourself and your family the favor of that exercise.


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## keko

shelby12 said:


> If this is not the first time they why didn't both of them get fired?


Her previous flings could have been with other men.


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## Machiavelli

keko said:


> Her previous flings could have been with other men.


There has to be some kind of history of inappropriateness. Notice how OP says wife practically stayed in his lap all day apologizing. Not raving about the injustice of it all, her being the only one fired, but instead she's sweating out...what? Whatever it is, OP don't want to know.


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## Chaparral

OldWolf57 said:


> Shelby why are you in this section. This is Coping With Infidelity and your situtiation from my reading is not there yet.
> 
> To be truthful ladies and gents, I believe her. Not saying Iv'e never been wrong.
> Shelby this section will get you OUR opinion for dealing with possible EA and PA. You have shot down and defended.
> So,,, why are you here ???


Its nearly impossible to believe she got fired over one little kiss. The only time she ever kissed the dude she got caught? Was this a peck on the cheek or a tongue lashing that they thought for sure wasn't going to be seen? No way this was a one off.


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## Wazza

A marriage needs trust. Shelby, looks like you are confronting things in a level headed way to me. I'm sure you see the need to confront issues in the marriage and I'm sure you will be keeping an eye out for suspicious stuff in future, but sometimes you just need to take the risk. You signed on as a husband, not as a probation officer.

Has no one else here done something stupid and immediately regarded it as a terrible mistake. Can no one else see the scenario of a wife who feels she is losing her attractiveness and desperately seeking to reassure herself that she has worth?

Can no one else see that a big bunch of flowers, a nice meal and curling up naked together in front of a movie might do a lot more to save th marriage, and the wife's esteem, than polygraphs, VARs etc?

I'm not denying th risk and I'm not denying things that it was escalating, but if she lost her job and got found out at the first hurdle, maybe she realises what an idiot she's been.

Love her man. keep an eye on things, but love her.


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## aug

shelby12 said:


> I did ask her and she said it was for me. She said she felt ignored sometimes and wanted me to still be attracted to her



She's not going to say the sexy underwear is for another man now, is she?


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## aug

shelby12 said:


> The guy has two young kids and I hope this scared the **** out of him so will will never cheat on his wife again. I guess I gave him and his family a second chance


Probably not. He'll learn from this and be more clever about it - if his desire is still there.


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## OldWolf57

People, you are beating a dead horse. He has stated his path forward.
I hope you don't have to come back Shelby12

Shelby you can ask a moderator to lok this thread.


God Bless your Family


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## lordmayhem

Good luck shelby12


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## Chaparral

Wazza said:


> A marriage needs trust. Shelby, looks like you are confronting things in a level headed way to me. I'm sure you see the need to confront issues in the marriage and I'm sure you will be keeping an eye out for suspicious stuff in future, but sometimes you just need to take the risk. You signed on as a husband, not as a probation officer.
> 
> Has no one else here done something stupid and immediately regarded it as a terrible mistake. Can no one else see the scenario of a wife who feels she is losing her attractiveness and desperately seeking to reassure herself that she has worth?
> 
> Can no one else see that a big bunch of flowers, a nice meal and curling up naked together in front of a movie might do a lot more to save th marriage, and the wife's esteem, than polygraphs, VARs etc?
> 
> I'm not denying th risk and I'm not denying things that it was escalating, but if she lost her job and got found out at the first hurdle, maybe she realises what an idiot she's been.
> 
> Love her man. keep an eye on things, but love her.


Well, uh , we've seen this tried before here. Still waiting for it to work. Hear the crickets?


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## shelby12

Wazza said:


> A marriage needs trust. Shelby, looks like you are confronting things in a level headed way to me. I'm sure you see the need to confront issues in the marriage and I'm sure you will be keeping an eye out for suspicious stuff in future, but sometimes you just need to take the risk. You signed on as a husband, not as a probation officer.
> 
> Has no one else here done something stupid and immediately regarded it as a terrible mistake. Can no one else see the scenario of a wife who feels she is losing her attractiveness and desperately seeking to reassure herself that she has worth?
> 
> Can no one else see that a big bunch of flowers, a nice meal and curling up naked together in front of a movie might do a lot more to save th marriage, and the wife's esteem, than polygraphs, VARs etc?
> 
> I'm not denying th risk and I'm not denying things that it was escalating, but if she lost her job and got found out at the first hurdle, maybe she realises what an idiot she's been.
> 
> Love her man. keep an eye on things, but love her.




This is exactly how I feel, thank you.


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## shelby12

chapparal said:


> Its nearly impossible to believe she got fired over one little kiss. The only time she ever kissed the dude she got caught? Was this a peck on the cheek or a tongue lashing that they thought for sure wasn't going to be seen? No way this was a one off.


She got fired because she was the BOSS. He did not get fired because he was the employee.


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## shelby12

OldWolf57 said:


> People, you are beating a dead horse. He has stated his path forward.
> I hope you don't have to come back Shelby12
> 
> Shelby you can ask a moderator to lok this thread.
> 
> 
> God Bless your Family




Thank you so much


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## sweetpea

I am going to lock the thread. I will open it back up if shelby ask a moderator


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