# Family vacations



## enealey (Jul 10, 2019)

I posted awhile back about my husband and I beginning marriage counseling. The first session went great... but it was just me. 

Though I would never replace counseling with venting on a forum, I found it very helpful getting some feedback from others on what they think about some of our issues. 

The last issue was our very different sleep schedules, this one has to do with our time away together. What do you think of this? I’d love some feedback on this issue:

Vacations have been a source of frustration for me for most of our marriage. He likes to bring his Mom on most of them. 

We already spend a week every summer visiting my family in Canada, so there isn’t much chance for our family of 5 to get away and reconnect just us.

I feel like having his Mom along just changes the dynamic of everything. Initially I think he liked having the extra help his Mom could provide when the kids were small because of my disability... which to a degree I understand, but it also makes me feel like he has to have her along now to have any kind of fun. 

I love my mother in law... it has nothing to do with how I feel about her. It’s really just about my desire to be with my people, the people with which I am most comfortable. He doesn’t understand at all how it would bother me to have her join us on all of our trips. 

He grew up with very little and I think he just wants to include her on some fun vacations before she gets too old. I am not opposed to her being along sometimes, but it seems to be very much the rule and not the exception. 

Also worth mentioning... the disability I have is progressive so I likely will be in a wheelchair sometime in the next 10 years.

The window of being able to travel easily with my family to some fun places is closing faster than my mother in law aging. I don’t really know how to get him to understand how I feel. I have so many negative memories from vacations where I just felt like the odd one out just trying to keep up with everyone. 

I can remember times walking through theme parks where he was just trying to get as much done in a day as he could so he’d be walking at such a fast pace, I’d be lagging way behind. 

Sometimes his Mom would feel bad and come walk with me at my slower pace, but it always bothered me and I thought “why doesn’t he do that?” 

It felt like he was more concerned with getting the maximum adventure bang for his buck than being by my side. 

This is an example of an instance he will tell me “you are just imagining things, this isn’t how it is, you are just being insecure.”

Sure, I want my kids to have a great vacation, and the idea of slowing them down already makes me sad... I understand that I’ll need to lag behind occasionally... but isn’t it my vacation too? 

Maybe my kids could benefit from seeing their Dad be more concerned about me than about how many rides we can ride in a day. I just feel like on most of our vacations, I’ve just been along for the ride.

I also think he and I could benefit greatly from getting away just the two of us... but that has rarely happened. 

There are a few things I’ve suggested that I’d like to do... but we have yet to do any of them and I suspect because he feels like he’d just be bored with me not able to do much. 

Maybe he’s right... this makes me sad that I can’t be a good vacation partner... and I’m not really sure how to fix this. So I’ve given up on even trying to figure something out.


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## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

Put your foot down ......Your vacations are YOUR vacations......Visits should be separate from family vacations. Think Chevy Chase going to Wally World with the goofy Aunt.......Not fun.....That is you. Tell A-Hole husband that if he insists taking his mommy on your family vacations he will be doing it without you!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Bluesclues (Mar 30, 2016)

Can I ask what your suggestions were? For a vacation just for the two of you?

How many vacations do you take a year, outside of the Canada family visit? Do you always do something like theme parks or is it ever something that is a more relaxed pace?

What does the perfect family vacation without your MIL look like to you? What do you envision?

I am assuming that his mom lives close and this isn’t her only time to visit with her son, you and the grandkids. Is he an only child?

Sorry for all of the questions and no answers. You all are sort of in a pickle when it comes to the family vacations. I can see how bringing mom along was good for when the kids were small and he might feel like a heel if he excludes her now, like admitting she was brought only as the help. And I can see how he doesn’t want to be slowed down and disappoint the kids. It seems from all of your posts that being “fun dad” is important to him. I can also see how that would make you feel like a hinderance instead of beloved. Not only should your kids be seeing their father want to care for you, they should want to also.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

So, your husband doesn't seem to care that your disability is limiting of what you can do.

Yet your mother in law understands your problems and walks at a pace that fits in with your physical abilities and the demands that your health issue places upon you?

Yeah. I agree one of them needs to be left at home, whilst you have a nice relaxing vacation/holiday with your children and an adult who understands your health issues and won't get all bent out of shape if you just physically cannot do something in particular or need to do it slower.

I am sure your husband will have plenty to do at home whilst you and your mother in law have a fantastic girl's vacation together! 

Also, if your husband is this indifferent to your disability and it's only relatively mild at present, how will he cope if it progresses to wheelchairs and the like?


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## enealey (Jul 10, 2019)

I got locked out of my account last night and couldn’t get back in until this morning. How frustrating!

The things that I have suggested are usually much more relaxing trips. Maybe an all inclusive resort or something like that where I can sit by a pool, or we can spend time talking and reconnecting instead of exhausting ourselves at a theme park until we are sick. 

Earlier in our marriage when I could walk longer and further I would have loved a trip to some countries in Europe, but I think the window for those is closed pretty much now. It’s all theme parks and stuff focused around the kids.

I know it’s hard when our oldest is entering her senior year to not get caught up in what the kids want to do, but even they are tired of our theme park vacations. 

I’m probably over-sensitive about holding everyone back and I’m not even saying they can’t have their fun, but truly there’s not much for me to enjoy. I have brought this up to him... his response is usually “well what do you want to do?!” 

The way he says it is incredibly discouraging, and I maybe I’m imagining things when it sounds to me like he’s thinking “this is what it is, you can’t expect us to go on vacation and just sit around”.

Like I said, I'm already extremely sensitive about it and don’t want to ruin everyone’s fun, but the two options for me are to go along for the ride or stay in hotel room alone. Am I asking too much of him to have me in mind for vacations sometimes? 

Not even everytime! He just says “well I can’t read your mind, if there’s something you want to do then you need to tell me and research accessibility etc..”.

Having my mother in law along makes it all the more difficult because he feels like he is responsible for her enjoyment, and it does seem like he will do what she wants to do which is a lot of the adventuring kind of things. She’s young at heart 😉 But what about my enjoyment?

I’m not saying these trips are all completely terrible, but they are coupled with anxiety and loneliness often times for me. 

My kids are in a rigorous program in school and ironically lately when it’s vacation time, they just want to stay at home or do something relaxing. I suggested that if he wanted to do something fun, maybe he take his mom and my younger son on a fun trip and myself and the older kids stay at home or do something else.

I hoped he’d see the ridiculousness of going our separate ways on vacation but he didn’t. He thought it was a great idea.

Fun story, this past year we celebrated our 20th anniversary. We decided to book a cruise with another couple. He invited his mom. I wasn’t loving the idea but he assured me like he does every time that we would have some time alone.

Then she realized it wouldn’t work out. In the meantime, I decided to invite my parents so at least I wouldn’t be alone a lot. Lol - so this time it was the other way around and although he would never admit he’s wrong, he maybe got a taste of having in-laws along and it changing the dynamic. 

What ended up happening is he had a great time with the kids zip lining and para-sailing while I enjoyed some time with my aging parents on the boat. Not really an anniversary trip after all. 

Also, him walking ahead and me lagging behind is a problem I don’t often deal with anymore because we usually rent a wheelchair for times with long walks etc. At least I am less anxious about falling and the like, and he is kind of forced to push me.

Moderator note: please can you try to add more paragraph breaks? For some members large amounts of text are hard to read on phones, etc. <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/smilies/wink.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Wink" ></a>


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

enealey said:


> Vacations have been a source of frustration for me for most of our marriage. He likes to bring his Mom on most of them.
> 
> We already spend a week every summer visiting my family in Canada, so there isn’t much chance for our family of 5 to get away and reconnect just us.


Is it possible that your husband sees it this way - you both go to visit your family every year for a week, but then you don't want to spend equal time with your husband's family? 

Does your MIL live close to you, and you both see her often, or does she live very far away? To me, that changes the context significantly. 

My own experience is that having a grandparent along is very helpful for babysitting when the kids are small. Later, not as much, but it also depends on where you are going for your trip.


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## enealey (Jul 10, 2019)

Bluesclues said:


> Can I ask what your suggestions were? For a vacation just for the two of you?
> 
> How many vacations do you take a year, outside of the Canada family visit? Do you always do something like theme parks or is it ever something that is a more relaxed pace?
> .


I may not have answered all of your questions. We usually are able to take one other vacation a year other than our trip North. My MIL lives close enough that we see her often. We could do weekend trips easily with her if we planned them. 

I envision a trip with just the two of us, but that’s not simple to arrange right now as we do have a younger 9 year old child. Cruises seem to be the best vacations we take as a family. We have been on many of them but never just our family. Always friends and family along with us. I don’t usually mind staying on the boat on port days but there have been times I would have loved to see some of the ports. That means asking my husband and kids to give up their plans though. I hate doing that, mostly for my kids sake. Maybe that’s my fault for not speaking up?


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## enealey (Jul 10, 2019)

Theseus said:


> enealey said:
> 
> 
> > Is it possible that your husband sees it this way - you both go to visit your family every year for a week, but then you don't want to spend equal time with your husband's family?
> ...


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## enealey (Jul 10, 2019)

So this is a situation that came up on our last cruise. We had a port in Puerto Rico and I really did wish I could see some of it. But before even getting there, husband had already been making plans with the kids to walk to this fort. I had done extensive research that walking would likely be a bit difficult with hills and cobblestone areas... but there was a way to see lots of sights by using public transportation. When I suggested that as an option, my husband made the comment “well I really don’t want to just take a bus around, I’d like to walk around the fort some too. But you tell me what you want to do.” How am I in that case supposed to feel like I’m not holding anyone back? I ended up just saying, “forget it, you guys go do your thing.” And I stayed on the boat.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

It doesn't appear that he cares what makes you happy. Maybe he will become more accommodating going forward but maybe this is who he is and he's not going to change. What then?


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## enealey (Jul 10, 2019)

Openminded said:


> It doesn't appear that he cares what makes you happy. Maybe he will become more accommodating going forward but maybe this is who he is and he's not going to change. What then?


This is one of about 3 main reasons that have brought us to counseling. Speaking to the counselor just myself so far, I feel like she understands me. I’m not sure what to expect when he is included. I’m sure he will make it appear like I expect him to read my mind. He is very good at presenting things from his perspective. This is kind of the reason I came to this forum. I know I will get all kinds of feedback, from his side, from my side, people that will tell me to kick him to the curb and vice versa. Does anyone see an angle I can use? I honestly think he’s just clueless. Hopefully not intentionally trying to hurt me. I guess I have to consider maybe he is. Do you all think it’s too much to ask that he take initiative on a vacation that I would enjoy? Or should I have to research all the places that have already been arranged and decide should I try and do them or not? I guess this whole issue is just as much about my disability as it is not being able to get away without extended family. Each of them complicates the other.


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## Bluesclues (Mar 30, 2016)

enealey said:


> So this is a situation that came up on our last cruise. We had a port in Puerto Rico and I really did wish I could see some of it. But before even getting there, husband had already been making plans with the kids to walk to this fort. I had done extensive research that walking would likely be a bit difficult with hills and cobblestone areas... but there was a way to see lots of sights by using public transportation. When I suggested that as an option, my husband made the comment “well I really don’t want to just take a bus around, I’d like to walk around the fort some too. But you tell me what you want to do.” How am I in that case supposed to feel like I’m not holding anyone back? I ended up just saying, “forget it, you guys go do your thing.” And I stayed on the boat.


It would be great if he prioritized your needs, but he is not going to, so YOU need to. Stop being a martyr and bump yourself up the list (I am great at saying this but have the same issue myself). 

In this case specifically it sounds like he was suggesting that he would be willing to do the bus tour if he could also then walk the fort after, so you should have said "Great! Bus tour it is. And if their is time you and the kids can walk around the fort." Of course you would have to ignore the look of disappointment on his face and possible whining, but it would be worth it. There is a chance that once he sees how happy and relaxed you are doing things your way once in awhile, he may actually be more open to it in the future.


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## enealey (Jul 10, 2019)

Bluesclues said:


> enealey said:
> 
> 
> > So this is a situation that came up on our last cruise. We had a port in Puerto Rico and I really did wish I could see some of it. But before even getting there, husband had already been making plans with the kids to walk to this fort. I had done extensive research that walking would likely be a bit difficult with hills and cobblestone areas... but there was a way to see lots of sights by using public transportation. When I suggested that as an option, my husband made the comment “well I really don’t want to just take a bus around, I’d like to walk around the fort some too. But you tell me what you want to do.” How am I in that case supposed to feel like I’m not holding anyone back? I ended up just saying, “forget it, you guys go do your thing.” And I stayed on the boat.
> ...


Yeah, I guess already being so sensitive about it, his comment really hurt me. Because of the time in this instance and our deadline being back on the boat, we couldn’t do both the bus tour and walk to the fort. So as usual I just backed out.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

MattMatt said:


> So, your husband doesn't seem to care that your disability is limiting of what you can do.
> 
> Yet your mother in law understands your problems and walks at a pace that fits in with your physical abilities and the demands that your health issue places upon you?
> 
> ...


I can say, if you want to go somewhere on a vacation and he doesn't, that's his choice. 

You go. Truly, this is important. You're not criticizing him for not going, you're going because you want to, nothing to do with him.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

But Sweetie you do need to be more firm with your needs and wants.


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## enealey (Jul 10, 2019)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> MattMatt said:
> 
> 
> > I can say, if you want to go somewhere on a vacation and he doesn't, that's his choice.
> ...


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## enealey (Jul 10, 2019)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> But Sweetie you do need to be more firm with your needs and wants.


You’re probably right, maybe part of this issue is working on myself. I just hate the thought of going on vacation and everyone else being miserable.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

enealey said:


> That means asking my husband and kids to give up their plans though. I hate doing that, mostly for my kids sake. Maybe that’s my fault for not speaking up?


I don't understand. Aren't you included in planning? If you are, there should be this option included for you. You are part of the family and your dynamics should be included in planning family vacations. 



enealey said:


> I honestly think he’s just clueless. Hopefully not intentionally trying to hurt me. I guess I have to consider maybe he is. Do you all think it’s too much to ask that he take initiative on a vacation that I would enjoy?


 Those are not the only two options. Another one I thought of is that your husband doesn't care about what you want. He isn't purposefully hurting your feelings, but he does whatever he wants with no consequences and he's used to leaving you out of the planning, so he does what feels good to him without regard for what works for you. This will never change if you don't start speaking up and doing so early in the planning stages making it clear that your desires are as important as his.

Allowing him to walk all over you isn't setting a good example for your children and it's unhealthy for you.



enealey said:


> Or should I have to research all the places that have already been arranged and decide should I try and do them or not? I guess this whole issue is just as much about my disability as it is not being able to get away without extended family. Each of them complicates the other.


 I think you should research it together and make plans together. It appears that your husband is not including you in the planning and then makes it sound like you are being a bore when you want something different than what he wants.

I think if you try to exclude his mother from your family vacations that her feelings will be extremely hurt and it will permanently damage your relationship with her. 

Tell your husband you want to go on a couple trip and ask him to start planning it with you immediately. Don't ask him. Don't demand. Tell him what you want.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

enealey said:


> You’re probably right, maybe part of this issue is working on myself. I just hate the thought of going on vacation and everyone else being miserable.


This is a very sad statement. Your family should not be miserable accommodating you within the group. You are accommodating everyone else, but when you want to have some accommodation you worry that you're making everyone miserable. They should be loving you and asking you to participate in planning and enjoy spending time with you when you are all together on vacation.


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## enealey (Jul 10, 2019)

CynthiaDe said:


> I don't understand. Aren't you included in planning? If you are, there should be this option included for you. You are part of the family and your dynamics should be included in planning family vacations.


No, I’m never really truly included in the planning of our vacations. He would disagree in that he gets invited or an opportunity comes up and I say yay or nay. It’s usually a friend going on a cruise that invites us along, or it’s his mother wanting to use our timeshare together (which we jointly own), or go to theme parks. When I try and say, “well that isn’t really my idea of a good time”, we end up having this long exhausting discussion about how we only have so long with the kids and his mother is getting older etc etc to where by the end I feel like the worst person in the world. He’ll usually huff and puff and say something like “ok so I guess we won’t go?” Then I give in. He’s just not easy 😞 

I know my mother in law wouldn’t have her feelings hurt by not being invited on every single vacation. I’m not even opposed to her being along sometimes. My father in law has dementia so I think when she can, she likes to get away and my husband feels it’s his responsibility to make the trip for her as good as it can be and while I think his intent is good, I feel like he puts her ahead of me in that way and ALL of our family trips aren’t necessary in my mind. When she’s along with us it’s all about where she wants to go eat and what she wants to do. It’s kind of messed up but I feel like the third wheel when she’s along, though I do love her.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Very sorry to hear of your disability. I understand how that affects your POV here. 

I've always been a big proponent of quality family time, and by family I mean the parents and their children. When I was a kid, I wanted special times with mom, dad, and my brother. Extended family was great, but only at certain times. Now, as and adult, I carried the same philosophy; rather than keep hanging with my parents, I wanted to hang with my kids and my wife. Which isn't to say I neglected mom and dad, but that they weren't invited on family trips. Nor did they want to be. Nor would my wife have wanted to bring her extended family along. Family vacations were strictly for the 5 of us. The end. 

Now, you are seeing the progression of your disability. It's probably strengthening your desire to bond with your husband and your blood while you still have some mobility and the ability to create those special family memories together; the memories you will hopefully cherish long after you lose your mobility.

If I'm on target here, you may wish to share these thoughts with your husband. I doubt such a thing has crossed his mind. He should also be thinking about how to maximize his time with you and your children together over the coming decade. 

Prayers for your health to hold out as long as possible,


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## enealey (Jul 10, 2019)

CynthiaDe said:


> This is a very sad statement. Your family should not be miserable accommodating you within the group. You are accommodating everyone else, but when you want to have some accommodation you worry that you're making everyone miserable. They should be loving you and asking you to participate in planning and enjoy spending time with you when you are all together on vacation.


I know it sounds like I just don’t stand up for myself. Believe me I have tried. There are always so many reasons why my kind of vacation just needs to be put on hold or taken another time. I’ve thought this exact thing. I hope the counselor will help him see this because I have been trying to for a long time. He ultimately just tells me I am feeling sorry for myself and this isn't what is going on at all. 😢


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## enealey (Jul 10, 2019)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Very sorry to hear of your disability. I understand how that affects your POV here.
> 
> I've always been a big proponent of quality family time, and by family I mean the parents and their children. When I was a kid, I wanted special times with mom, dad, and my brother. Extended family was great, but only at certain times. Now, as and adult, I carried the same philosophy; rather than keep hanging with my parents, I wanted to hang with my kids and my wife. Which isn't to say I neglected mom and dad, but that they weren't invited on family trips. Nor did they want to be. Nor would my wife have wanted to bring her extended family along. Family vacations were strictly for the 5 of us. The end.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for your prayers! I have muscular dystrophy, a progressive weakening of my muscles. I think because of the literal physical heaviness I feel all the time, it makes dealing with things emotionally hard and heavy for me too. Even just standing up for myself in a discussion feels like it takes a physical toll. 

All of my family trips growing up just involved my sibling and parents... and that is what I feel desperate for lately. Even just time with my husband where I don’t have to weigh decisions. Will I skip this activity and if I do will I regret it? Will I try it and if I try it and it doesn’t go well, will it mean an anxiety attack or something embarrassing will happen? These are things I deal with every single day, so the idea of going somewhere to relax without feeling so HEAVY. That is really the best way I can describe things.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

enealey said:


> Thanks so much for your prayers! I have muscular dystrophy, a progressive weakening of my muscles. I think because of the literal physical heaviness I feel all the time, it makes dealing with things emotionally hard and heavy for me too. Even just standing up for myself in a discussion feels like it takes a physical toll.
> 
> All of my family trips growing up just involved my sibling and parents... and that is what I feel desperate for lately. Even just time with my husband where I don’t have to weigh decisions. Will I skip this activity and if I do will I regret it? Will I try it and if I try it and it doesn’t go well, will it mean an anxiety attack or something embarrassing will happen? These are things I deal with every single day, so the idea of going somewhere to relax without feeling so HEAVY. That is really the best way I can describe things.


That makes sense. First of all, physical challenges will indeed take a toll on emotions. The physical, emotional, mental, and spiritual aspects of one's health are all far more interrelated than most of us recognize. 

What's more, when we get into difficulty with those, we naturally reach to those closest and for most of us that means nuclear family. 

Best wishes for you being able to effectively communicate your very valid and understandable feelings in such a way that your husband will understand.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

enealey said:


> All of my family trips growing up just involved my sibling and parents... and that is what I feel desperate for lately. Even just time with my husband where I don’t have to weigh decisions. Will I skip this activity and if I do will I regret it? Will I try it and if I try it and it doesn’t go well, will it mean an anxiety attack or something embarrassing will happen? These are things I deal with every single day, so the idea of going somewhere to relax without feeling so HEAVY. That is really the best way I can describe things.


My heart hurt reading this, on your behalf! It sounds like you don't feel safe to be vulnerable around your husband. I think this right here is super important to explore in counseling. I bet if you felt like he really had your back, that he would help you if you ended up exhausted/overwhelmed and that you could trust him not to pout about messed up plans, you would feel a lot of that mental heaviness lifting. 

I also struggle with advocating for myself - in a way that gets HEARD by other people (including my H). I never want to make waves or be responsible for making a choice that will make someone else unhappy. The thing is... if you've always been agreeable and let everything slide during your marriage... your H has learned its OK to steamroll you. The problem is whether he is doing it out of ignorance or out of malice. He either really, truly, thinks that you are OK with going along with everything he wants... or he doesn't care whether you are or not, he just knows that you aren't going to put up a huge fight about it and that you'll quickly get over it. Which do you think it is? I recently had a similar problem in my own marriage and tackling this question hurt me a lot. I don't think any of us want to think that we married a person who could purposely disregard us so callously.  

Are you able to speak freely to your H about things like your quote above? 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

enealey said:


> No, I’m never really truly included in the planning of our vacations. He would disagree in that he gets invited or an opportunity comes up and I say yay or nay. It’s usually a friend going on a cruise that invites us along, or it’s his mother wanting to use our timeshare together (which we jointly own), or go to theme parks. When I try and say, “well that isn’t really my idea of a good time”, we end up having this long exhausting discussion about how we only have so long with the kids and his mother is getting older etc etc to where by the end I feel like the worst person in the world. He’ll usually huff and puff and say something like “ok so I guess we won’t go?” Then I give in. He’s just not easy 😞


If your mil won't feel excluded, then tell your husband that you want to take some trips with only him, you, and the kids, not his mother. How does he know unless you tell him?

Your husband's huffing and puffing is called manipulation. It shows that he is not interested in what matter to you and wants you to feel bad about having thoughts and feeling contrary to his, so I guess I would have to go back on what I said before about him not necessarily trying to make you feel bad. He is trying to make you feel bad. This type of manipulation has been working for him for 20 years. He's going to keep doing it unless you stop taking the bait and doing exactly what he wants: 1) feeling bad for disagreeing with him and having your own ideas 2) going along with what he wants.

I don't recommend making this an adversarial situation, but you've got to learn how to set some boundaries and make sure your needs are being met. In a marriage you are supposed to have each other's backs 100%, but your husband clearly doesn't have your back in this regard.

I recommend that you bring up your next vacation and tell him it's time for you two to start planning the vacation. Make up your mind that you aren't going anywhere with him if it isn't mutual. You don't have to tell him that, but you can tell him that you want to start planning your next vacation together now.

Your approach of, “well that isn’t really my idea of a good time”, is negative and doesn't help the situation. Try to be positive about what you want rather than about what you don't want. If you don't like his idea tell him that you'd rather do (fill in the blank). Express what your idea of a good time is rather than telling him that his idea stinks. 

It sounds like you two have some negative ways of communicating with each other. Start to recognize that and stop your part of the cycle. Try to be more positive about your desires rather than thinking of yourself so negatively. Express those desires in a positive manner.


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## enealey (Jul 10, 2019)

kag123 said:


> Are you able to speak freely to your H about things like your quote above?


I’m pretty sure I’ve shared this sentiment in one of our long drawn out discussions that went nowhere. After so long, you just give up. Lots of issues in our marriage have been neglected in this same way. Through counseling I hope to be able to get across how much these things STILL bother me even though I haven’t said so for awhile.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I think he needs a course (perhaps online) on disability awareness.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Agree w/ others who say stop being a martyr. You don't have to be nasty about it, you can just say "I CAN'T walk around the fort, I HAVE to take the bus." Accomodating someone's disability isn't fun, but the sensitive among us are just grateful we aren't the one w/ the disability.

Working w/ the counsellor may well help, he seems a bit dismissive of you and may listen to a third party.

I would tell him you do love your MIL, and are glad she and he are close, but a husband and wife need some time just to themselves and you want this while you have as much health as you do.


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## Bluesclues (Mar 30, 2016)

enealey said:


> kag123 said:
> 
> 
> > Are you able to speak freely to your H about things like your quote above?
> ...


I think you need to try a new approach. Ideally you would both listen to each other and make compromises. But I think you have taken a backseat so many times that you need to take a hard stand on something to get some equilibrium. “No Charlie, that is not happening. We are doing X”. No round and round on why your idea has merit and your feelings. No is a full sentence. 

My concern with therapy is that if he opens up you will hear real resentment about you and your illness and how it impacts him and the family. Legit resentment that he might be feeling. And you will acquiesce because you feel bad and shut down. But your resentment is just as valid as his. Don’t forget that.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Bluesclues said:


> I think you need to try a new approach. Ideally you would both listen to each other and make compromises. But I think you have taken a backseat so many times that you need to take a hard stand on something to get some equilibrium. “No Charlie, that is not happening. We are doing X”. No round and round on why your idea has merit and your feelings. No is a full sentence.
> 
> My concern with therapy is that if he opens up you will hear real resentment about you and your illness and how it impacts him and the family. Legit resentment that he might be feeling. And you will acquiesce because you feel bad and shut down. But your resentment is just as valid as his. Don’t forget that.


I think it's better if you can educate people as to why something needs to be done, but agree some people won't learn and have to be told. But I'm not sure how great a vacation she'd have if her husband just felt she was ordering him to make her feel special.

My hope w/ therapy is the therapist is a tie breaker/reality check in the conversation. He certainly could just ignore her too, but while he might dismiss his wife as being self serving, the therapist can't be. As for W hearing his resentment, I think she all ready has a clue about that.


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## enealey (Jul 10, 2019)

SpinyNorman said:


> But I'm not sure how great a vacation she'd have if her husband just felt she was ordering him to make her feel special.


Yeah this is just it, I do agree that at this point, it sounds like he needs to have things spelled out. There are just some things that I just wish he did naturally... they go under the category of “having my back”... most people either do or don’t do that. He just doesn’t, and so it kind of ruins the whole point to tell him to have my back... that’s me having my own back really. Lol. Maybe it doesn’t have to be this way if I can get over him doing things because he’s told, but it definitely is hard.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

SpinyNorman said:


> Agree w/ others who say stop being a martyr. You don't have to be nasty about it, you can just say "I CAN'T walk around the fort, I HAVE to take the bus." Accomodating someone's disability isn't fun, but the sensitive among us are just grateful we aren't the one w/ the disability.


Agreed. He needs to be told to always factor in your disability when making any plans.

There’s no need for MIL to join every family vacation, either. They should understand.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

He's fine the way things are and may not be willing to change. Will you be able to continue things as they are if that's the case?


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Openminded said:


> He's fine the way things are and may not be willing to change. Will you be able to continue things as they are if that's the case?


This is true. If things are working fine for him, why would he want to change?

If you always give in to his demanding behavior, he will continue to exhibit the same behavior.

Again, I'm not talking about arguing or fighting with him. I'm talking about making plans without him. Making your own vacation plan, then telling him what you want to do and ask if he has any input. If he insists on making plans that don't include you, stop including him and go your own way. 

That is unless you don't think you can live without him, then this is a moot point.


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## enealey (Jul 10, 2019)

Openminded said:


> He's fine the way things are and may not be willing to change. Will you be able to continue things as they are if that's the case?


It’s do-able but not happily. I will probably just have to learn to take care of myself and just have to avoid situations that are too difficult... and maybe just stay behind on the vacations that are not easy for me physically and emotionally. Maybe on those, he can bring his mom.


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## enealey (Jul 10, 2019)

CynthiaDe said:


> Openminded said:
> 
> 
> > He's fine the way things are and may not be willing to change. Will you be able to continue things as they are if that's the case?
> ...


Yeah honestly, a vacation without him wouldn’t be much. I’d need too much help to do much alone. One of the things I’m most anxious about is falling. I have anxiety attacks sometimes about it. If I fall, I need someone strong enough to lift me back up. None of my friends can do this. Then I just hope there are no bad injuries from the fall. I just can’t do much alone.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Have you read anything by Dr. Terry Wahls? She has MS, but has found a way to bring it under control. She is quite interesting. It wouldn't hurt to read what she has to say. Her story is inspiring. Here's a book by her: https://www.amazon.com/Wahls-Protoc...y&sprefix=Terry+Wa,aps,212&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1


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## enealey (Jul 10, 2019)

CynthiaDe said:


> Have you read anything by Dr. Terry Wahls? She has MS, but has found a way to bring it under control. She is quite interesting. It wouldn't hurt to read what she has to say. Her story is inspiring. Here's a book by her: https://www.amazon.com/Wahls-Protoc...y&sprefix=Terry+Wa,aps,212&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1


Thanks for the info, sounds like a great read 🙂 However, it is not MS that I have. It is a form of Muscular Dystrophy. You definitely aren’t the first person to get them confused 😉 My own family Doctor has at times. What I have is very different. If anyone is curious this outlines the disease. Progressive and currently no known cure. 

https://www.mda.org/disease/facioscapulohumeral-muscular-dystrophy


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

Did your H know about your disease before you married? (Wasnt sure when you were diagnosed...) Is he aware of how your disease will progress with time? What does he think about it? 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

That sounds pretty frustrating to have a genetic disorder. I'm sorry you are dealing with this and that your husband doesn't seem to consider how it impacts you.


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## enealey (Jul 10, 2019)

kag123 said:


> Did your H know about your disease before you married? (Wasnt sure when you were diagnosed...) Is he aware of how your disease will progress with time? What does he think about it?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


I was diagnosed at birth with some sort of muscular dystrophy but at the time it didn’t fit into any of the known kinds. However, we knew it was still progressive, but there are so many people with varying degrees of severities and speed at which progression happens, it’s hard to really know how bad it will get in your lifetime. At the time, the only thing way you could tell was I sort of walked with a waddle, and couldn’t really run. I’d get tired a little more easily but for the most part it didn’t affect me like it does now. As I got older, stairs became a problem. I’d say over the last 5 years since turning 40 I’ve progressed way more. Neither of us knew what to expect really. That’s the hard part of all this. I did get officially diagnosed with this kind though after we were married and thinking about having children. It is one of the mildest forms thank goodness but it still takes a toll on me daily.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

enealey said:


> Yeah this is just it, I do agree that at this point, it sounds like he needs to have things spelled out. There are just some things that I just wish he did naturally... they go under the category of “having my back”... most people either do or don’t do that. He just doesn’t, and so it kind of ruins the whole point to tell him to have my back... that’s me having my own back really. Lol. Maybe it doesn’t have to be this way if I can get over him doing things because he’s told, but it definitely is hard.


My hope is your counselor will get him to understand how life is for you and he will belatedly develop some empathy. If he won't go, you might try some things like "How would you feel if you couldn't walk and everyone just left you behind? Wouldn't you want me to do things you could still do?"


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## enealey (Jul 10, 2019)

SpinyNorman said:


> My hope is your counselor will get him to understand how life is for you and he will belatedly develop some empathy. If he won't go, you might try some things like "How would you feel if you couldn't walk and everyone just left you behind? Wouldn't you want me to do things you could still do?"


Yes me too. And this thread started with my frustration at having my mother in law on all of our trips but kind of changed over to this issue. I feel like in a way they are connected because having his mother with us means he feels responsible for her to have a good time, thus forgetting even more about me having a good time. I want my mil to have special memories with my kids but I want to make some of those memories too and I do feel like sometimes all the good memories for them are with my mil. In my mind, I’m just so much more relaxed and feel at home when it’s just our family without her. The dynamic is just different, and I think he does show a little more empathy when she’s not around.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

enealey said:


> Yes me too. And this thread started with my frustration at having my mother in law on all of our trips but kind of changed over to this issue. I feel like in a way they are connected because having his mother with us means he feels responsible for her to have a good time, thus forgetting even more about me having a good time. I want my mil to have special memories with my kids but I want to make some of those memories too and I do feel like sometimes all the good memories for them are with my mil. In my mind, I’m just so much more relaxed and feel at home when it’s just our family without her. The dynamic is just different, and I think he does show a little more empathy when she’s not around.


It sounded like you do appreciate your MIL, which is very good. A good family is some blend of just the nuclear family(parents & kids), extended family, and just the couple. It sounded like you are ok w/ a blend, but the last part is missing and the first part is too skimpy for your tastes. Intelligent people can disagree on what is too skimpy, but "none" is just not right IMO.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

It doesn’t seem like you are an active participant in your own life. 
This is your life, speak up, address things as they come, advocate for yourself.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

Bluesclues said:


> It would be great if he prioritized your needs, but he is not going to, so YOU need to. Stop being a martyr and bump yourself up the list (I am great at saying this but have the same issue myself).
> 
> In this case specifically it sounds like he was suggesting that he would be willing to do the bus tour if he could also then walk the fort after, so you should have said "Great! Bus tour it is. And if their is time you and the kids can walk around the fort." Of course you would have to ignore the look of disappointment on his face and possible whining, but it would be worth it. There is a chance that once he sees how happy and relaxed you are doing things your way once in awhile, he may actually be more open to it in the future.


 @enealey, I think BluesClues is spot on here. It is probably very hard for you to disappoint your husband, and feel like you're a buzz kill because of your disability. And the way he phrased that: "Well I don't want to do that but whatever you want..." mmmmm... he may be "clueless" but more likely he's being selfish and manipulative because he knows you don't want to ruin his fun. I know a lot of men who would go out of their way to plan only things their wive could do, or at least talk to their wife about how much time she wanted to be together and then how did she feel about him doing some more active things with the kids *part *of the time.

I spent years being "giving" because I couldn't stand to see my my H (now ex!) disappointed, and he knew it, and he worked it. THEN ONE DAY it occurred to me - wait a minute, I've been disappointed countless times in life, and I just handle it. He can experience some disappointment, he won't dissolve or burst into flames or something.
@enealey - My suggestion: Give up on the idea of him planning for you, at least for now until you have him better trained. ;-) Think in your head -- what DO I want? What specific action would I like him to take? Get a clear, detailed vision in your mind. Women will tell men "I feel left out... I felt lonely... I feel like a burden..." but these are abstract concepts. When he says "What do you want me to do?" you need to be ready with some simple instructions he can follow if he actually cares what you want:

I want you to have you mom spend the afternoon entertaining the kids and you and I take a leisurely lunch, maybe followed by drinks, just the two of us, so we can reconnect. I want to sit on a patio with a nice view. Then I'd like to go to a movie/show/listen to live music/ride around the island -- whatever *you really do want *to do. 

Or, I would love to take a walk around the lake, holding hands, just the two of us, *at a very slow pace *where I can enjoy being alone with you and not feel rushed.

My ex was tall and used to walk fast. I didn't have a disability, but I pretty much had to jog to keep up with him and he did not give a damn. He would NOT slow down for me. Now that we're divorced and I've pulled my head out of the sand, I see that he was being a jerk. Most spouses change their pace to accommodate the slower one.

When he says something like "I don't really want to ride, but, whatever you want..." Be prepared to say "Thank you. I'd like to ride." And if he sulks, just ignore it. He'll live. As long as you're seeing that HIS needs are also being met, if he won't do something THAT SMALL for you, what good is he as a husband?


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## enealey (Jul 10, 2019)

@WorkingWife Great advice. I will keep this in mind going forward that I have to just stand up for myself, even though it doesn’t come naturally to me. You’re right, I absolutely hate being the buzzkill in a lot of situations, and of course I don’t expect everyone to just sit around and do slower things the whole time. About 4 years ago we went on a cabin vacation... totally my pace, in fact it was the one vacation I suggested on my own and we actually did. My mother in law had a conflict at the last minute so she didn’t come so I was super excited. Master bedroom on same level as well as a hot tub outside on the deck. I enjoyed my time... alone though. My husband spent the majority of the time playing video games. 🤣 Ah well... I can’t have my cake AND get to eat it 😐


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

enealey said:


> @WorkingWife Great advice. I will keep this in mind going forward that I have to just stand up for myself, even though it doesn’t come naturally to me. You’re right, I absolutely hate being the buzzkill in a lot of situations, and of course I don’t expect everyone to just sit around and do slower things the whole time. About 4 years ago we went on a cabin vacation... totally my pace, in fact it was the one vacation I suggested on my own and we actually did. My mother in law had a conflict at the last minute so she didn’t come so I was super excited. Master bedroom on same level as well as a hot tub outside on the deck. I enjoyed my time... alone though. My husband spent the majority of the time playing video games. 🤣 Ah well... I can’t have my cake AND get to eat it 😐


Now you just need to find a cabin without electricity or internet access! ;-) 

Did your husband enjoy the cabin vacation?

It sounds like he's avoidant in general. I wonder if you could tell him openly: I want to take a vacation, just us, and spend X amount of time together as a family where we are all together. Not on our devices, doing something we can ALL do and enjoy. Then come up with your own ideas ('cause he probably won't) but tell him "I'd like to spend these hours together doing these things or let me know if you have any ideas, and you can spend the rest of the time doing anything you want -- with or without the kids. If I know I'm going to get some quality time together I will feel much less sad and left out.

QUESTION: How is he when you are not on vacation? Do you two have time alone together or does he play video games and do things you can't participate in with all his free time? If you're not already you might tell him you want to establish some couple time -- maybe in the morning or evening together when it is just the two of you, no phones or games or distractions. And also time for the whole family. I think spending time together, even if forced at first, will bring him closer to you in general. 

If you've never been there, check out www.marriagebuilders.com. They have a lot of really great stuff on relationships and one thing they talk about is how we love the people we associate with our happiest/fun times. Couples tend to drift apart if they aren't careful regardless, but with your disability, it's possible your husband has started associating "good times" with activities that do NOT include you. If that's true, if you can get him doing things that do include you and that he really enjoys, over time it will make him associate YOU with happiness and good times and he will not WANT to go walking around without you. It may be challenging if he's really physical, but surely there are some things you would both enjoy that you can both do.


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