# Hoping for Advice and Guidance



## coloradosad (Jul 7, 2011)

I have been married for 8 years. My wife and I have a 6 year old son. We both have good careers, a beautiful home, take great trips, and have a good social life. We both love our son very much.

This past March, my wife had a heart to heart with me and said she was very unfulfilled by our relationship and thought she might want out. Essentially caught me entirely by surprise - which is probably one of the reasons she feels this way. We've had a good marriage overall which she would admit but the last few years we have been distant to each other both emotionally and physically. 

While stunned and out of breath after the conversation, I pretty much said I wanted to do anything possible to fix the relationship. The first two months after the March conversation, I thought we were making progress but around a month ago, things turned soured again when she was clearly indicating she wanted distance when I thought more closeness was more likely to bring us back together. However, at least to my face, she continues to say she wants to stay together and work to find love and closeness for me again.

A few weeks ago, I realized she had put a password on her iPhone for the first time and then I believe by a mistake on her part, she recently sent me an email from a new email address she had created. That led me to be curious if something else was going on that I hadn't thought was the case. By taking a look at our cell phone statement, suddenly I realized that there have been phone calls and many text messages to a guy who she works with and I have known in the past over the last few months. We both travel for work (he is where she works) and I am debating whether her conversations with him who is recently divorced or 1) to help her find a way to deal with her concerns about our marriage and come to terms with making it work or 2) something more sinister and affair like.

Finally, I really want our marriage to get fixed. I love her and I can't imagine a world where we are not together with our son. I am generally thinking that I am not going to bring up my concerns about a possible affair to her since I'm hoping in some fashion I'm incorrectly putting 2 and 2 together and the space she says she needs will eventually lead her back to me.

Sad as I am writing this and any advice would be appreciated.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Now you know why she's been acting like this: because she's having an affair. Like most of us, you missed the classic red flags that indicates an A in progress. She says she needs space because she wants to continue the A, make no mistake about that. This is classic cheater behavior. 

Now you say you have not confronted her yet, but you have no plans to because you hope she will realize the error of her ways and come back to the marriage? I'm sorry friend, but that's not how it works. She is now deep in what is called the affair FOG. This is where she is not thinking rationally, she is only concerned with her feelings, her feelings toward the OM, and the OM himself. You are just an afterthought while she is in the fog.

But you haven't confronted her yet, that is a good thing, because you will want to gather enough proof/evidence that you can before the initial confrontation. BUT you will have to eventually because that will be the ONLY way to help kill the affair. You MIGHT have to go out of your comfort zone, like exposing the A to coworkers, etc, it depends how deep in the fog she is.


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## coloradosad (Jul 7, 2011)

Thanks for the response - I should have mentioned this in my first response but looking back to a moment 2 or so weeks ago, she got very emotional and I'm now wondering whether she was going to admit to the affair. However, it didn't happen and she instead more just had a close moment with me saying she wanted to make things the way they were in the past with us.

For some reason, I think it might be better knowing my wife's personality for her to, at some point, admit the affair to me versus me confronting her since my goal for me is still to make our marriage work. Maybe this doesn't make sense - but I feel that if I confront her, the end to our marriage could be immediate and I don't that want to happen.

There is also a part of me - the detective part of me - that wants to basically have a way to see if the conversations or affair is continuing over the next few weeks/months, etc by continuing in essence to monitor or cell phone usage.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Well the good news and the bad news is...

This is likely going to come to a head soon. Generally by the time people feel compelled enough to search and then end up finding a place like this, and they post exactly what you have posted its only a few weeks until DDay. (if your not familiar with that term, DDay is the day it all comes out. The bomb drops)

BTW, your fear that if you confront her about this your marriage may be over on the spot... Not going to happen. No chance. But you do want as much information as possible before you confront her. Look up VAR and Keylogger. Get one of each.

Promise = She will lie, a lot.

There is a sticky at the top of this forum with some threads. One is "never say never" which explains a little about what the "fog" is... familiarize yourself with the term. Your likely going to hit a very nasty patch of it. Best you know what to expect. another term you should research immediately is Gas Lighting.

I'm very sorry your here. Information is power, arm yourself and put on your seatbelt. 

Post often and regardless how uncomfortable some of the things you hear are, please listen. There are a lot of people here that know what they are talking about and they will do everything they can to help you save your marriage.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

coloradosad said:


> Maybe this doesn't make sense - but I feel that if I confront her, the end to our marriage could be immediate and I don't that want to happen.


No, that doesn't make sense at all. Will she end the marriage immediately or would you? Since you wouldn't end it, I gather that she would end it. She's the one who's cheating! 

Look if you're that afraid of confrontation, then you should live with the fact that you are sharing your wife with an OM and live as a cuckhold. If you don't want to live that way, then you need to confront. Here's my standard advice that I'll copy and paste. Take from it what you will. But you CANNOT LIVE IN FEAR. 

First off, know that the affair is not your fault. Have you been the perfect husband? Of course not, no one is. She had other options besides cheating, such as communicating with you on working out the marital problems, going to Marriage Counseling (MC), etc. Yet she chose the easy option: cheating. Most likely because the Other Man (OM) stroked her ego and provided the shoulder to cry on. Your wife is now a Wayward Wife (WW), so consider as such. She will give the common excuses: You weren’t there for her, OM provided for her needs because you couldn’t, etc.

The last thing you should do is to cry, beg, and/or plead with her. This not only makes you unattractive, it drives her away. Trying your best to be the best husband doesn’t work either, because you cannot compete with the fantasy she has built up with the OM.

Now you have to play detective in order to save your marriage, or to get the proof you need to end it. If you can afford it, hire a PI. If not, you will have to do this on your own. What you need to find out is if this is an Emotional Affair (EA) only, or if this has progressed to a Physical Affair (PA). What you also need to find out is who exactly the OM is, his identity, if he’s married, and if he’s married, his Betrayed Wife’s (BW) contact information. You will need this info later on.

What you should not do is confront her too early about the Affair (A). You are going to need to gather all the information that you possibly can before confrontation. We Betrayed Spouses (BS) call this investigating. Others call it snooping. The cardinal rule about investigating is NEVER REVEAL YOUR SOURCES!!! This will prevent her from denying the A, which they almost always do at first until presented with proof of the A. This will also prevent her from gas lighting you. Gas lighting is a term used when the WW, when confronted, will say that you are just jealous, imagining things, and that you are just crazy. Gathering enough proof of the A, also prevents the Wayward Spouse (WS) her, from giving you the Trickle Truth (TT). TT is when the WS minimizes what they have done in the A, and will only admit to what they think you know. For example: Most will say they only kissed their Affair Partner (AP) once, when in fact they went much farther than that. If the A has gone to a PA, they usually only admit to doing it once & with a condom! 

If the WS is using a computer as part of the tools of the A, then you will need to install computer monitoring software, the basic ones are keyloggers. There are free ones, which basically only record keystrokes, to the more expensive ones that record keystrokes, capture screenshots of the computer, email you the results, etc. There are good ones like Spector Pro, Web Watcher, Spy Agent, etc. There are also free ones, but you get what you pay for. Why do you need a keylogger? So you can be aware of their communications, such as how long this has been going on, what they have done, and what they are planning to do. Another key tool cheaters use is the secret email account. A keylogger will capture their usernames and passwords. 

Now you might feel guilty about investigating/verifying. Sorry, but their privacy went out the window the second they endangered the marriage by having an A. It is your right to investigate now, so don’t lose any sleep or feel guilty about it. If they try to turn it around on you (blame shift), tell them it’s your right because they are having an A. 

Another tool that cheaters use is the cell phone of course. Some carriers allow you to check online who the other person is calling and/or texting. If you don’t have access to this information, then use the keylogger to obtain it. If your WS has a smart phone, you may be able to install phone monitoring software such as Mobile Spy or Mobistealth. This will allow you to see their text messages. The more expensive versions of Mobile Spy and Mobistealth even allow you to listen in on their conversations in near real time, and use the GPS to track their location. If your WS suspects that you are on to them, they may purchase a secret cell phone. A clue that your WS has a secret cell phone is if they suddenly leave their regular cell phone lying about when before they were guarding it at all times. This brings me to the Voice Activated Recorder (VAR). 

A VAR can be purchased very cheap, usually around $40 or more, at either Walmart, Best Buy, or your local electronics store. A VAR can be very useful at determining if your WS has a secret cell phone. Also, a strategically placed VAR can be very useful if you are unable to install phone monitoring software on their cell phone. A good place to hide a VAR is in the WS vehicle. If there is one place they feel secure in talking with their AP, it’s in their vehicle. Some place it under the drivers seat with industrial strength Velcro. It’s up to you where you can place your VAR. You may want to hide one in your bedroom or the bathroom in order to record their conversations.

Once you have gathered your proof, it is time to confront your WW. This is called the Day of Discovery (DDay). This may well be the most traumatic day of your life. If you have gathered enough proof, your WW will not be able to deny, gas light, or TT you. Your WW will either go into crying fits, be angry, or both. She will try to blame you for the A, tell you she has been unhappy for months or years. Re-Writing the history of the marriage is a common tactic, they use it to justify the A to themselves. Stay strong and know this is not your fault! This is hers!

She will say that she does not know what she wants. This is called fence sitting. She wants the security of marriage, but wants to play around with her OM. Do not stand for this. It is either you or him. There is no room in a marriage for 3 partners. 

Another common occurrence is that the WS will leave the house when confronted on DDay. This is usually only for a few days or weeks. The WW will usually contact the OM about what happened. The WW usually comes home after a few days, but sometimes they don’t. DO NOT beg her to come home. Like I said earlier, this makes you look weak. 

Another common tactic that the WS does is to cry and plead that they want to fix the marriage after they have been caught, but then they take the A “underground”. This is when the WS has talked to the AP about ways to continue the A without your knowledge. This is usually when they resort to using a secret email account and a secret cell phone. If you have not revealed your sources, then you can usually find out if they have taken the A underground. 

If they wish to stay in the marriage, then you have to remain firm and demand No Contact (NC). They must end the affair and go NC. That is the ONLY way to save your marriage, by killing the affair. An A is exactly like a drug, because the WS receives a “high” from the affair. Feel good chemicals like dopamine and others, are excreted in the brain during the A. Giving them a high feeling, the feeling of being in love, etc. 

If your WS is very deep in the fog of the A, and refuses to go NC, or the OM/OW refuses to go NC, then the next step is exposing the A. This means contacting the other BS. This serves two purposes. This helps kill the affair by bringing it into the light of day, and you have another set of eyes watching the other side of the affair. You might even be able to compare notes with the BS and find out more information, or they may have information about the A that you didn’t know about. The other reason is because it’s the right thing to do. Wouldn’t you want someone to have told you what was going on?

Remember the monitoring I was telling you about? Monitoring the WW will allow you to know if she has broken NC. If the OM contacts her and she doesn’t tell you about it, that is also breaking NC. And if you ultimately decide to Reconcile (R), then monitoring will help rebuild trust. After you keep finding nothing, and she is doing her part in R, then you will find yourself monitoring less and less. Eventually you may be able to wean yourself off from monitoring her since she has rebuilt some trust.

Try reading these too:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/26360-betrayed-spouse-script.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/26439-bill-rights-betrayed.html

Best Computer Monitoring Software 2011 | Reviews, Ratings & More

http://www.mobile-spy.com/

http://www.mobistealth.com/

Philips - Voice Tracer Digital Voice Recorder - LFH061227

Walmart.com: Sony ICD-BX8112 Digital Flash Voice Recorder: iPods & MP3 Players


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

She is demonizing---the mge., and you---to justify her devious behavior

It doesn't matter whether its a kiss, drinking in a bar, with a guy---bump and grind dancing----flirting---excessive messaging, actual sex---its all cheating---its all being done with someone other than you, her H---its INAPPROPRIATE

Ask to see her phone, or e-mail---if she refuses, and plays the privacy card---tell her in no uncertain terms---when she took her vows---she agreed by those vows to no privacy tween spouses---thats what a mge. is---IF SHE WANTS PRIVACY SHE SHOULD HAVE STAYED SINGLE

By asking for phone you are letting her know you will not put up with her messing around---but be careful, as this also could drive her underground---but you do need to confront!!!!!!


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

Uggghh
This is almost exactly like my Dday..Hurt to see it.

I am so sorry but it really looks like she is having an affair.

While all these posts look extreme now, they will make sense in a while..

Your wife is no longer who you think she is. She will lie, scheme, swear on ther bible/kids life that she is not having an affair..


You have to work out NOW. Before you confront her what your boundaries are. Don't listen to anyone else. You decide.

Are you prepared to accept that she is in an affair and that is will probably burn itself out in anything from 3 months to forever? 
2 years is probable.

Are you prepared to accept her knowing that she has slept with or formed a strong emotional connection with someone else?

You are going to hear.
I love you but am not in love with you.
I love you like a Brother
I need space
I need time to work things out
I need..
I need.. 
I need..
I need..

Be prepared for anything you say to go in one ear and out the other..
Are you prepared to set your boundaries. Do this now. Write it down. 

Mine came down to:
Cease affair immediately. Or get out.

I am getting divorced to the woman I though I would grow old with.


Post here. People here have LOTS of good advice, but set your boundaries first, 


I am SO sorry...


I going to have to bail out of this thread. Too close for me. 
Listen to people. This is not going to get fixed fast. 
Best of luck


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Not confronting her is like having a case of sepsis. It only hurts when you think about it. It sounds like your marriage isn't worth saving. Or that your family just isn't worth fighting for. You seriously need to investigate how successful your strategy has been for others on this site. Maybe once you realize that she has lost respect for you (no wonder with the non confrontational way you're handling it). Let me clue you in, a marriage must have love and respect. But respect is the basis for love. You can't have love without respect. Did you ever think that your wife may want you to man up, put your foot down and get up in grill about the possibility of spreading her legs for another man. Your weakness on the subject is not an attractive trait.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Initfortheduration said:


> Not confronting her is like having a case of sepsis. It only hurts when you think about it. It sounds like your marriage isn't worth saving. Or that your family just isn't worth fighting for. You seriously need to investigate how successful your strategy has been for others on this site. Maybe once you realize that she has lost respect for you (no wonder with the non confrontational way you're handling it). Let me clue you in, a marriage must have love and respect. But respect is the basis for love. You can't have love without respect. Did you ever think that your wife may want you to man up, put your foot down and get up in grill about the possibility of spreading her legs for another man. Your weakness on the subject is not an attractive trait.


:iagree:

Exactly!


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

Plus, you have a right and a obligation to maintain your DIGNITY.
If this means you forego the whole investigation routine and be done with her, I am one thats ALL FOR the quick cut. Wish I had listened to some of the people I know long ago, when I was in the "well maybe we can" phase.


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## confused59 (Jun 28, 2011)

Granted i am new here, but i have been through a lot. What everyone is telling you is exactly what you need to do. I caught my Wife cheating and she still denies it. they will lie, lie, lie. As Lordmayhem said, you need to find proof. there are great spy software to put on the computer. 

Best case scenario, she is only having an EA and you can have a chance to stop it and have a R. Worst case scenario, she's having a PA and you can deal with it then. 

Either way, you need to know and know soon.


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