# Female perspective needed please!



## RandomThoughts (Aug 16, 2017)

Just wanted to get a female perspective to possibly explain wife's train of thought.

Been married for over 13 years. 2 great kids- 5 and 8. Without going in to great detail, the wife started spending less time with the kids, not cooking, spending a lot of time on facebook/forums and decided to get on a fitness kick—health club membership, protein bars, fitness clothes. Went to the club 3+ times per week. Would come home talking to girlfriends on the phone ignoring the kids that didn’t see her all day and ignoring me. Anyway, reached my boiling point, had a big fight, discussed divorce (we’re both hot heads). Decided to stay for the kids. Talked some things out that she wanted improved from me and me from her.

A year went by, things were better than they have been for a while. During the fight, I guess we both expressed issues that we had with each other, and both seemed to work on them. She’s not the type of person that you can talk to about things like marriage issues. Her first response is to avoid. Things that bother her are kept inside until things blow up.

Anyway, a year passed and things were improved. However, I felt like I’m grasping at little things she does to look for the positive but feel like she could be doing so much more. I think a wife should be a mother to the kids, make the house a home, make the husband look forward to coming home and sharing with her and so on. Instead, she’s often in a bad mood, angry at kids blah blah blah. The point being, I wasn’t on cloud 9 when something triggered a fight and I told her how I felt. Said I didn’t love her anymore and if it wasn’t for the kids, I’d call it quits.

Again, this was another opportunity for her to tell me what she wants from me in the relationship, and me to tell what I want from her. I felt terrible for what I said to her and apologized multiple times and talked it out. However, I tried to make it clear that although I felt very bad that I hurt her, what I said during the heat of the moment actually had some truth to it. Competing with her girlfriends for time with her, facebook being on all the time and not able to talk to her is not what makes a happy home. There's more-- but you can see the kind of problems. DOn't know if it's depression, stress, laziness.... See previous statement about her not being the type of person to say how she feels.

We again decided to stay for the kids (and I hope to fix our problems—I’m certainly willing to work on it) The first few months were tough. She was nasty to me—in front of kids, friends, parents. She’d seem nice one moment, I’d let my guard down and BAM! I told her what she’s doing is not fair and oddly enough she stopped. 

So, to the root of my question and the female opinion I’m seeking. She has shown all sorts of signs of improvement. She’s a lot nicer to the kids (I can’t believe I’m happy about this—you’d think it’s a given—they’re her kids too) and me. Even tries to put at least one of them to bed most of the nights (it was only me while she facebooked/youtubed before). We have home cooked meals every day. She does laundry and tries to keep closet organized (instead of throwing stuff on the floor). Talks less on the phone in front of us and uses facebook in her free time instead of to get away from family. The only thing is—we’re not 100% back together. She still reminds me of where we stand every time she gets a chance. So my question is, if her mind is set that we’re done as husband & wife and she’s staying only for the kids—why become this great person she had a hard time being in the past 13 years when I was asking for it without fighting?


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

You two need counseling.

Huge lack of communication going on.

Spend the money.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Is your wife a SAHM? 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Are you guys in marriage counseling, together? Because it sounds like you really need it.

I fell like there's a lot missing from this story, and it may be missing because you simply don't know it. Something happened with her. There was a change in her behavior, wherein she began to detach from you and the family and turned her focus inward. Why? Do you know? There's something she hasn't told you, or isn't telling you.

Until you can find the answer to that question and fix whatever that is, all this other stuff is superficial. Like slapping lipstick on a pig.

Your communication is clearly weak, and it sounds like the two of you are lacking in emotional intimacy.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Is she a SAHM?

Did she ever tell you WHY she decided to ignore you all, fix her appearance, and hang out with friends 24/7? It's kind of important.

And I'm not talking about whatever bullsh*t blame she put on YOU.


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## lookformeaning (Oct 24, 2017)

RandomThoughts said:


> Just wanted to get a female perspective to possibly explain wife's train of thought.
> 
> Been married for over 13 years. 2 great kids- 5 and 8. Without going in to great detail, the wife started spending less time with the kids, not cooking, spending a lot of time on facebook/forums and decided to get on a fitness kick—health club membership, protein bars, fitness clothes. Went to the club 3+ times per week. Would come home talking to girlfriends on the phone ignoring the kids that didn’t see her all day and ignoring me. Anyway, reached my boiling point, had a big fight, discussed divorce (we’re both hot heads). Decided to stay for the kids. Talked some things out that she wanted improved from me and me from her.
> 
> ...


I don't want to hurt your feelings, but from my experience in the past, I haven't felt like doing things, because I wasn't happy. Maybe she's happy with the agreement that you have, and feels more like doing things now. I could be wrong, that's just me. On the other hand, you sound like a great guy, and she's a fool to let you go!


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

Does she have a trainer at the gym? If it's like any other threads on here, she's banging him and keeping you around to babysit the kids. 

How often are you two having sex? How often are you kissing and holding hands? That tells us if you have a shot at turning this ship around and saving the marriage.


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## flowersandsun (Sep 23, 2017)

If she's a SAHM it's possible she may be very unhappy. It can be a very lonely unrewarding job. Deep down she may not be the domestic type of gal that loves to cook and fold laundry all day and that can cause a lot of resentment if that's not her thing but thats what you agreed upon in your marriage. She may be trying to do better now because she knows she HAS to to fulfill her part in the marriage. She should be able to recognize and voice that though if that is the cause for her to be crabby at you and the kids. The Facebook/You Tube stuff non-stop could be her outlet for being so unfulfilled, bored & lonely. If you're not intimate and doing loving things together as a couple away from her job site (the home) that will cause disconnect, anger & more resentment. If you go to see a professional they can help uncover the possible reasons for her discontent. Sounds like she won't tell you much so you will need to talk with a 3rd party...


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## sandcastle (Sep 5, 2014)

Random Thoughts- can you list your "perfect wife" requirements in order of importance?

Example-
1) home cooked meal every night
2) clean closet - clothes hung by color
3) house totally in order upon my arrival after work
4) all clothes laundered and ironed( all dry cleaning delivered and fetched)
5) raging, mind- boggling, hanging from the chandelier sex after the kids are bathed, In Jammie's and read GoodNight Moon and homework done.
6) dogs and cats bathed and put away
7) NO PHONE or internet usage upon your arrival from work
8) adoring single- minded attention on Random Thoughts at all times.

Your wife may be totally bored being your Stepford Wife.

This DOES NOT mean she is "banging the personal trainer".
But she could be toying with that idea. At the very least, she has waaaay more fun on Facebook than with you.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

Career woman here. Neglecting the children for social media is unacceptable. I don't think that you should stay in the marriage for the children's sake. You are also neglected. I suggest you see a marriage counselor to help you sort out this problem. Sorry you are here for your children's sake.


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## sandcastle (Sep 5, 2014)

Roselyn said:


> Career woman here. Neglecting the children for social media is unacceptable.


Plenty of SAHM's that gave up their career to be exactly SAHM's instead of dump their children in daycare to be " career woman" feel that daycare is neglect.

This is a hamster wheel argument and has nothing to do with SAHM or Career women or the OP.

The kids are 5 and 8. Years old.

And he seems to be perfectly capable of putting his children to bed.


Neglect? Child Services has a tough time figuring that term out.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

sandcastle said:


> Plenty of SAHM's that gave up their career to be exactly SAHM's instead of dump their children in daycare to be " career woman" feel that daycare is neglect.
> 
> This is a hamster wheel argument and has nothing to do with SAHM or Career women or the OP.
> 
> ...


Sandcastle: what is your point? Do not attack me. You are missing my point!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

@RandomThoughts
;

To me, it sounds like your wife has been very unhappy for a long time. She also clearly does not enjoy being a SAHM.

During that time when your wife was out doing her own thing, how much time did you and she spend together, just the two of you doing things that you both enjoy?

Now, since she has changed, how many hours a week do you and your wife spend doing things together, just the two of you? I mean spending quality time together?

I think that you would benefit from the books "Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs". There are links to them in my signature block below.


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## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

How often do you show interest in HER and what she likes and wants to do? I had to withdraw into myself in my marriage because my ex had NO interest in me or the things I wanted to do. And being a SAHM is HARD. When I withdrew into facebook games, I was depressed. I didn't clean or cook as much as I had, just doing bare minimum. Instead of my ex actually HEARING me and making an effort to value me, he just stayed mad at me for not being the perfect little wifey. I am MUCH happier (and ironically, better at both housekeeping and cooking) now that I'm divorced and working.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

RandomThoughts said:


> Just wanted to get a female perspective to possibly explain wife's train of thought.
> 
> Been married for over 13 years. 2 great kids- 5 and 8. Without going in to great detail, the wife started spending less time with the kids, not cooking, spending a lot of time on facebook/forums and decided to get on a fitness kick—health club membership, protein bars, fitness clothes. Went to the club 3+ times per week. Would come home talking to girlfriends on the phone ignoring the kids that didn’t see her all day and ignoring me. Anyway, reached my boiling point, had a big fight, discussed divorce (we’re both hot heads). Decided to stay for the kids. Talked some things out that she wanted improved from me and me from her.
> 
> ...


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## VibrantWings (Sep 8, 2017)

First thoughts reading your opening post? Some sort of escapism/addiction- possibly an online affair (explains all that time online, eh?)

What changed? Online affair over? 

Second thoughts reading your opening post? Read below:



sandcastle said:


> Random Thoughts- can you list your "perfect wife" requirements in order of importance?
> 
> Example-
> 1) home cooked meal every night
> ...


Randomthoughts- you do seem more interested in what she does for you and the family than in the person your wife actually is. You already told her this, right? 

Something I have to remind my own kids of....and I taught my ex-husband: The word Mother is not synonymous with the word Maid

Do you think putting your kids to bed is some job to hand off to her? Did you do it because she didn't? It's actually an honor/privilege parenting children-for both Mothers and Fathers. 

I can sympathize with the parts of your post about her neglecting the children- that's a no go. I just can't help but think, though, that we're only getting to read your side of things.

What's the saying? Oh yeah, there are three sides to every story: Your side, My side and then there's the truth.


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## RandomThoughts (Aug 16, 2017)

Lila said:


> Is your wife a SAHM?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk



Hi,

No, not SAHM-- works a full time job like me.


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## RandomThoughts (Aug 16, 2017)

FeministInPink said:


> Are you guys in marriage counseling, together? Because it sounds like you really need it.
> 
> I fell like there's a lot missing from this story, and it may be missing because you simply don't know it. Something happened with her. There was a change in her behavior, wherein she began to detach from you and the family and turned her focus inward. Why? Do you know? There's something she hasn't told you, or isn't telling you.
> 
> ...


I think you're right-- something happened. And you're totally right about communication. In her family, they solve problems by avoiding them. She hasn't spoken to her sister in 7 years. Sometimes goes months without speaking to mom. 

Exactly what what went wrong, I can't say, I can only guess. Part of it is why I asked the question on this forum. My guess is it's that she's struggling with the fact that she's now a grown adult, wife and mother which comes with responsibilities and the freedom that she had when we were younger is gone. She's 34, I'm 37. But that's just my guess.

No, we're not in counseling. Though I've suggested it before, it was laughed at-- she's not a believer in things like that and I actually kinda agree with her, because from my research of counselors online, they seemed to be 20-somethings that probably have never been married, so unless you find someone who's good, it's probably a waste.


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## Ms. GP (Jul 8, 2013)

Sounds like she resents you. Since you both work full time, what's the division of labor in your household?


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## RandomThoughts (Aug 16, 2017)

turnera said:


> Is she a SAHM?
> 
> Did she ever tell you WHY she decided to ignore you all, fix her appearance, and hang out with friends 24/7? It's kind of important.
> 
> And I'm not talking about whatever bullsh*t blame she put on YOU.


No, not a SHAM. 

Didn't really tell me. Some stuff came out during the fight that she feels unloved, she has low self esteem and so on, but I don't really know how to take it. I mean I don't go hugging and kissing every day and calling her sweetheart and whatever (I never was that kind of a guy), but without her telling me exactly what I'm doing wrong, it's hard to say. To me it seems like we have great kids, big house, do ok with finances so we travel, kids have activities every day and so on. She always talks to me about things that are bothering her outside of our relationship (meaning we have that connection). We go out once per week either just the two of us to try a new restaurant or with friends. I guess my point is we've been married 13 years-- we're kinda past the honeymoon phase-- but I don't think that's what she's looking for either  Besides, I do try to do more family things such as movie nights at home with the kids and bring sushi on random days, but things like that are hit or miss with her-- some days it's fun, some days she watches the movie while reading facebook nonstop.


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## RandomThoughts (Aug 16, 2017)

GA HEART said:


> How often do you show interest in HER and what she likes and wants to do? I had to withdraw into myself in my marriage because my ex had NO interest in me or the things I wanted to do. And being a SAHM is HARD. When I withdrew into facebook games, I was depressed. I didn't clean or cook as much as I had, just doing bare minimum. Instead of my ex actually HEARING me and making an effort to value me, he just stayed mad at me for not being the perfect little wifey. I am MUCH happier (and ironically, better at both housekeeping and cooking) now that I'm divorced and working.


Funny thing is I'd say I do more of what interests her than she does what interests me. Although she'd say otherwise, I feel like I'm pretty easy going-- she'd ask do you wanna go to this restaurant, or to these friend's for dinner or have these friends over, I usually say-- sure. If I ask her something similar, more often then not, the answer would be no followed by a strange reason.

As far as valuing her, I try and make the effort-- even more now than before because I get that with being married for a while, you take things for granted. However, with her personality it's hard because though she may say I don't value her, she's also terrible at taking compliments. If I come home and the house is clean because she cleaned it, I'd say "wow, it looks great" and her response would be "send me a thank you card" or something smart like that-- instead of just "Thank you." But that's been there all our marriage-- not just now.


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## RandomThoughts (Aug 16, 2017)

To reply to your comments:

1. I'm ok with her exercising. I do it too and unlike her, I actually have weight to lose  The problem I have with her exercising is she never did it before. We used to be smokers and both drank socially before the kids. Exercise was never on the map  However, now that she started-- she did it during peak hours 3+ times per day-- so after work, she'd go to the club and come home around the time the kids are going to bed or are already sleeping-- making me a single father. Also, buying up hundreds of dollars in gym clothes and protein bars and the full Monty! It went from 0-10 overnight. And I know her friends go to, so she joined them, but I thought she had a family first.

2. The friends she constantly talk to, from the conversation I hear, are superficial. "Can you believe so and so?", "her boyfriends is an S-- he doesn't deserve her" There could be deeper conversations when i'm not around 

3. You are correct-- my criticizing approach was bad. But in my defense, that's what happened in my family-- how I was raised and that's all I know. At this point, I truly think there should be a marriage class people have to take after getting marriage license. Like driving school for teens 

4. The agreeing to stay married for the kids I think is misunderstood. The point there is agreeing to stay married for the kids AND working on the marriage. But honestly, not only for the kids. If I compare my marriage to my friends or co-workers, everyone has problems and not small problems at that. No one I know is in a marriage bliss.

5. I do want to value her more and I'm now trying harder-- I'm just having a hard time, especially when she has shut down on me twice. I think that in of itself has done a lot of damage. Whatever problems she may be having with me or experiencing (depression or whatnot) I feel that giving up on her own kids and family is a terrible way to deal with it. She can hate me all she wants for whatever her reason is, but when kids are asking for mom when they go to bed and mom is facebooking in the other room, talking on the phone to a friend about nothing or at the gym, I think that's terrible. 

The other problem with valuing her is I feel like I do more in the family than she does. Lately, over the last couple of years, she's started to take on more responsibility by driving the kids to school and getting them ready in the morning, but before, it was mostly me.


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## RandomThoughts (Aug 16, 2017)

Ms. GP said:


> Sounds like she resents you. Since you both work full time, what's the division of labor in your household?


Well that changes. I don't want to write a list, but I can say I do all that's required of a husband as well as laundry, cleaning and cooking. However, as wrong as this may be, I think there should be some division of labor and when I pick up her tasks, I don't feel appreciated for it, I just feel like I'm being handed off those tasks to keep doing them in the future full time  I.e. I may cook once or twice, then it turns to a week of cooking while she's on the computer  I think you're getting the idea. But yes, she's resentful for something, not 100% clear what.


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## Ms. GP (Jul 8, 2013)

I agree. Division of labor, especially in a dual income household, is very important. Otherwise both parties get into scorekeeping and resentment develops. I find it interesting that everyone assumed she was a SAHM. I'm curious as to who determined what jobs would be done by whom and when. Maybe a revision is in order? Mabye not. Idk.

I get the impression that you both are crappy communicators. If she can't tell you what her needs are in a constructive way, then how can you possibly meet them? And vice versa. You need to express your needs without threating divorce too. A good marriage therapist can help with this btw.

Full disclosure. I'm not perfect when it comes to zoning out on the computer too. It's usually to give myself a little time to relax after a stressful day at work. I spend most of my time at work cleaning up the messes and mistakes of a 50 year old alcoholic man baby.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

RandomThoughts said:


> To reply to your comments:
> 
> 1. I'm ok with her exercising. I do it too and unlike her, I actually have weight to lose  The problem I have with her exercising is she never did it before. We used to be smokers and both drank socially before the kids. Exercise was never on the map  However, now that she started-- she did it during peak hours 3+ times per day-- so after work, she'd go to the club and come home around the time the kids are going to bed or are already sleeping-- making me a single father. Also, buying up hundreds of dollars in gym clothes and protein bars and the full Monty! It went from 0-10 overnight. And I know her friends go to, so she joined them, but I thought she had a family first.
> 
> ...


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

VibrantWings said:


> What's the saying? Oh yeah, *there are three sides to every story*: Your side, My side and then there's the truth.


Add one more....an immense more....... +More'....as in more-yay

*The fourth side is the children.* How to they view their place in this unsettled mix you call homelife.

As a child, my place was heartbreak, rage, feeling un-loved, un-wanted. In-the-way-of the adults, their needs, their happiness.
I felt like I was someone to cut the grass, trim the hedges, take out the garbage, rake the leaves. A servant.

Children should be expected to do household chores, I recommend it. But, they should also be noticed and appreciated.
They are the fourth rail of marriage.


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## FrenchFry (Oct 10, 2011)

A few questions and some thoughts:

Were your children planned?



RandomThoughts said:


> Just wanted to get a female perspective to possibly explain wife's train of thought.
> 
> I think a wife should be a mother to the kids, make the house a home, make the husband look forward to coming home and sharing with her and so on.


Someone already asked you this in a different way but beside the obvious of not being nasty, what does this look like to you?


--


RandomThoughts said:


> Exactly what what went wrong, I can't say, I can only guess. Part of it is why I asked the question on this forum. My guess is it's that she's struggling with the fact that she's now a grown adult, wife and mother which comes with responsibilities and the freedom that she had when we were younger is gone. She's 34, I'm 37. But that's just my guess.


I'm in my early 30's. Unplanned child who is about your oldest's age. I was not the girl dreaming about having a husband and a child and creating like a happy home life so having it somewhat unexpectedly was an adjustment and a lot of the time really quite crappy. I felt like I lost myself, like I was now "Momfrenchfry" and "Mrs. Frenchfry." instead of just Frenchfry. I did stay at home for a bit but felt way better when I went back to work because at work I am Frenchfry. With my friends, I am Frenchfry. 

My husband had some expectations of what marriage was and looked like that only popped out after having a kid. I felt forced into abiding by those expectations so I did them but I wasn't every going to be thrilled to do them, nor did I get any sort of rewarding feelings from doing them. I spent way too much time reading (THIS FORUM...) and kind of robotically doing tasks so that my husband wasn't angry and I looked like a "good mom" by those standards. I only really felt happy when I was "doing my thing," 




> Didn't really tell me. Some stuff came out during the fight that she feels unloved, she has low self esteem and so on, but I don't really know how to take it. I mean I don't go hugging and kissing every day and calling her sweetheart and whatever (I never was that kind of a guy), but without her telling me exactly what I'm doing wrong, it's hard to say. To me it seems like we have great kids, big house, do ok with finances so we travel, kids have activities every day and so on. She always talks to me about things that are bothering her outside of our relationship (meaning we have that connection). We go out once per week either just the two of us to try a new restaurant or with friends. I guess my point is we've been married 13 years-- we're kinda past the honeymoon phase-- but I don't think that's what she's looking for either Besides, I do try to do more family things such as movie nights at home with the kids and bring sushi on random days, but things like that are hit or miss with her-- some days it's fun, some days she watches the movie while reading facebook nonstop.


Take a step back. Take off the mom/wife filter, put on the "woman" filter. She feels unloved but you are married--what did you do to make her fall in love with you? Did you court her with a big house, kids and activities when you were dating or was there something else you were offering that was interesting?

Why did you fall in love with her? Was it the prospect of kids and their activities, a big house and stable finances? Or was there something about her that got to you?

Your posts have a lot of "family" talk, but not as strong as an emphasis on "relationship" talk. Your wife improved on the family bit because that is what you are focusing on. My husband did the same thing. I got really good at cleaning and cooking and being "mom," but no matter how good I got, it never got fulfilling, it never made me happy nor did it make me want to be with my husband. Because we didn't see each other as "honey and sweetie," but mom and dad that is how our relationship got structured.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

RandomThoughts said:


> I actually kinda agree with her, because from my research of counselors online, they seemed to be 20-somethings that probably have never been married, so unless you find someone who's good, it's probably a waste.


That's absurd. Every counselor I've known but one has been at least 40, HIGHLY trained, VERY experienced, and extremely helpful to the people who see them. 

You're just making an excuse. Doesn't look good on you.


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## sandcastle (Sep 5, 2014)

RandomThoughts said:


> Hi,
> 
> No, not SAHM-- works a full time job like me.



Oh.

Works full time like you.

Why don't YOU prepare "home cooked meals, pick up and do laundry and Stay off your phone.


Neglect? You are actually *****ING about this and calling it "neglect." 

Neglect.

You are pissed cause she bought workout clothes?

Find the poster who has a wife that is fat and can't work out cause her back is all kinds of Effed up.


Wow


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

RandomThoughts said:


> I think you're right-- something happened. And you're totally right about communication. In her family, they solve problems by avoiding them. She hasn't spoken to her sister in 7 years. Sometimes goes months without speaking to mom.
> 
> Exactly what what went wrong, I can't say, I can only guess. Part of it is why I asked the question on this forum. My guess is it's that she's struggling with the fact that she's now a grown adult, wife and mother which comes with responsibilities and the freedom that she had when we were younger is gone. She's 34, I'm 37. But that's just my guess.
> 
> No, we're not in counseling. Though I've suggested it before, it was laughed at-- she's not a believer in things like that and I actually kinda agree with her, because *from my research of counselors online, they seemed to be 20-somethings that probably have never been married, so unless you find someone who's good, it's probably a waste*.


In regards to the bolded, really? My IC was like 60+... there are plenty of counselors who are older. And besides, they are trained to do this. They go through a lot of schooling, and even a counselor who is in her 20s could have something to teach you and your wife about communication and relationships. When you are in a dysfunctional relationship, older doesn't mean wiser. And you guys are.

She avoids problems. You and she has problems. She is avoiding them. This is dysfunctional.

She's dealing with _something_ that has caused this behavior shift. She won't talk to you about it--she's avoiding it--and you're trying to guess what it is. This is dysfunctional.

Seriously, you NEED counseling so you can learn to communicate and have a healthy relationship. Your bad attitude about counseling is hurting you. @turnera is right, you are making excuses.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

It sounds like she is unhappy. It sounds like you want her to be a certain person that she isn’t and your kind of forcing her to be a certain way and she does for a little while but she’s not happy being this person. 

No one likes to be told how they should be. Not every wife wants to make their kids and husband heir only priority, not every wife wants to be homely and cook/clean/do laundry.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

katiecrna said:


> It sounds like she is unhappy. It sounds like you want her to be a certain person that she isn?t and your kind of forcing her to be a certain way and she does for a little while but she?s not happy being this person.
> 
> No one likes to be told how they should be. Not every wife wants to make their kids and husband heir only priority, not every wife wants to be homely and cook/clean/do laundry.


His wife has children and a home. Too bad if she doesn't "want" to cook and clean and do laundry. Every ADULT needs to do these things. Every parent needs to do these things, unless they have enough money to pay for a cook, cleaner and laundress. OP more than pulls his weight in these areas. She needs to do her part, too.


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## RandomThoughts (Aug 16, 2017)

FrenchFry said:


> A few questions and some thoughts:
> 
> Were your children planned?
> 
> ...



Hi,

Yes, both children were very much planned-- we both wanted 2 kids, boy and girl and so on.

I understand what you're talking about, however I don't know how to answer it. Before the kids and the house and such, things were different  We'd finish work, got out to eat and have drinks. We went out 5+ times per week. If we wanted to go to florida or vegas, we were free to go. No kids to think about, not dog to worry about, no house. Although all that was fun, there was a proper place and time for it. Once we both kinda got tired of that life, we went on to the next chapter of our life of having kids and a house. I do understand that sometimes you want to come home and do your own thing but you got all these responsibilities of being and adult and parent. However, we do have the structure of her having her day every week to do whatever she wants (gym, stores, friends) and I have my 1 day where I get together with the guys for beer. We also try and drop off the kids overnight at the grandparents so we can sleep in and go out and such. So, I think we do a lot better and taking some time for ourselves from the kids than most families. Other than that, I usually drive them to activities and such so she has plenty of time to relax and be herself.


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## RandomThoughts (Aug 16, 2017)

sandcastle said:


> Oh.
> 
> Works full time like you.
> 
> ...


Sandcaste, I sense anger in your posts against either marriage or just men. But to answer your post, ok-- I can cook, I do my own laundry as it is-- so that's no stretch. I actually do stay off the phone when playing with kids and eating dinner, so DONE! Now, since we're changing roles-- how do I get my wife to mow the lawn, fix the broken dryer, finish the basement, roll out the heavy garbage bins and clean the gutters?


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## RandomThoughts (Aug 16, 2017)

katiecrna said:


> It sounds like she is unhappy. It sounds like you want her to be a certain person that she isn’t and your kind of forcing her to be a certain way and she does for a little while but she’s not happy being this person.
> 
> No one likes to be told how they should be. Not every wife wants to make their kids and husband heir only priority, not every wife wants to be homely and cook/clean/do laundry.


Katiecrna,

I agree with you, something is causing her to be unhappy. Exactly what that is is what I'm trying to figure out. But I'd like to understand your statement better: 

"No one likes to be told how they should be. Not every wife wants to make their kids and husband heir only priority, not every wife wants to be homely and cook/clean/do laundry."

I presume you mean if she doesn't like to do it, the husband can take on those tasks while she takes on other tasks that the husband does? Or are you saying that she just takes care of herself and the husband does everything. And if that's the case-- how does that work? Would you be happy if your husband focused on himself and you did the rest?


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## RandomThoughts (Aug 16, 2017)

Just wanted to say Jessica38, it's a pleasure to read your posts. It sounds like you have things figured out and are in a good place.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

RandomThoughts said:


> Katiecrna,
> 
> 
> 
> ...




What I mean is... no one wants to be constantly told to be a certain way. I would be annoyed if my husband kept complaining about me and wanting me to do certain things that maybe I don’t think need to be done the way you want it done. 
She seems to like to have her own life and there’s nothing wrong with that. It seems your trying to control her a little and giving her the guilt trip. 

There is a saying that I’m going to butcher... the different between like and love, if you like a flower you pick it. If you love a flower you water it and enjoy seeing it grow. Your wife is doing some positive things like working out and getting into health and socializing. You should support her and encourage her not always tell her what she’s not doing and what she should be doing. You are just making your relationship with her more strained. She Wants a friend and a partner.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

And also it doesn’t seem like you do love her and I’m sure she feels like that. If your only happy when she acts how you want her to act... that’s not cool.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

My thoughts are this: the feelings in my marriage were pretty much the same as the feelings in yours. You told her you don't love her anymore; I once said this to my husband, things changed, if only for a short while. I could only take so much before I started doing a 180, and concentrating on what I wanted from MY life. Hence, I seriously started pulling away from my husband, who had little time to put any effort into our marriage. In the end, I told him I wanted to separate, then a couple months later, I told him that I wanted a divorce.

Not to be a Debbie Downer, but I would have to say that your marriage is on it's way to dissolution. If you guys are willing to, get into marriage counselling, and really talk through your problems, and both commit to working on them. I wish I could go back in time, and tell my STBXH, "I don't want to be in this marriage anymore, and am thinking about leaving. Please, give me a reason to stay." 

You guys need to get to the bottom of this though before things get worse.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

When I read your posts, what jumped out at me is that the two of you don't talk about difficult issues, and then once a year, have a huge blow up over all the annoyances that each of you have been stuffing. Getting divorced is thrown around, then you realize you love each other and really don't want to get divorced, so you agree to work on it, but don't talk about the issues, or check in with each other again for another year.

Can you schedule periodic "relationship checkups" that are closer together time wise? How about talking once a week, until you both learn to talk about issues as soon as they come up?

You said your wife avoids conflict, but it sounds like you do too, if you wait for a year to go by until you open Pandora's box again.

It takes courage to bring up negative issues when you know the other spouse is not going to like it. Talking about difficult things, and coming up with mutually agreeable alternatives is the only way to have a healthy marriage.

If the communication keeps going this way, the marriage will break down further until there is no connection at all and you will end in divorce.


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## RandomThoughts (Aug 16, 2017)

Araucaria said:


> When I read your posts, what jumped out at me is that the two of you don't talk about difficult issues, and then once a year, have a huge blow up over all the annoyances that each of you have been stuffing. Getting divorced is thrown around, then you realize you love each other and really don't want to get divorced, so you agree to work on it, but don't talk about the issues, or check in with each other again for another year.
> 
> Can you schedule periodic "relationship checkups" that are closer together time wise? How about talking once a week, until you both learn to talk about issues as soon as they come up?
> 
> ...


I think you have a great point. I just need to find a way to do it such that my wife agrees to it. As many stated, the down side of not having good communication skills is failure to communicate.  I actually went and read the 7 Principles of Marriage. A very simple and good book. Some things I already knew we were missing or doing wrong, some new things I learned as well. I remember scheduling "checkups" was one of the things the book talked about. After reading, I told my wife that the book had a lot of good ideas and she should read it in her own free time. It's been over a month and she hasn't touched it. Being stubborn. Keeps joking around that she hasn't read it yet any time I bring anything related to to book up.

Nonetheless, I'll see how we can make the checkups work. Thanks!


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## RandomThoughts (Aug 16, 2017)

katiecrna said:


> And also it doesn’t seem like you do love her and I’m sure she feels like that. If your only happy when she acts how you want her to act... that’s not cool.


katiecrna,

I think this is a fine line. Love does not conquer all-- not in real world. When we dated, I loved her, that's why we got married. We had no responsibilities, just had fun and she was fun to be with. But life goes through stages. You get older, have kids, responsibilities and both need to keep up. When one person starts to focus on themselves more than the family/marriage, problems compound. I can guess that the next big stage in our lives will be when the kids grow up. I assume things can go two ways then. She can find a hobby and immerse herself in it, or she and I can do something together like travel. One decision will make the marriage weaker, one stronger. At least that's how I see it. 

It's not only the women that build resentment in marriage-- men do too. Some here that responded assume that I am this husband from the 50s that wants the poor wife enslaved cooking, cleaning and taking care of the kids while I read the newspaper and smoke a pipe. That is not the case, not even close.

To your point:

"your wife is doing some positive things like working out and getting into health and socializing. "

you're right, that's good-- for her. However, since we're married, she's doing it at my expense-- and I don't mean financial. That's why it's a problem for me. While she's getting healthy and having fun, I'm stressed out taking care of the kids, dog and the house. You see my position on this?


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

RandomThoughts said:


> katiecrna,
> 
> 
> 
> ...




It just sounds like it’s all about you. It’s important to have family time, and husband and wife time and by yourself time. It seems like you only want family time.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

What does your wife say about all this? Is she happy with your relationship? What does she eat more of?

You guys should compare how you want things and how she wants things and make compromises.


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## RandomThoughts (Aug 16, 2017)

katiecrna said:


> What does your wife say about all this? Is she happy with your relationship? What does she eat more of?
> 
> You guys should compare how you want things and how she wants things and make compromises.


Funny thing is most of the time, you never know. Hell, maybe even she doesn't know, right? For example, we're more or less in a decent place now-- talk, laugh, parent. Anyway, about a week ago I said, " you know what, next time something bothers you that you want me to change, please let me know-- but not in the way that makes me defensive, but calmly somehow." She said, I actually don't have any issues right now. So my thought is, really? We didnt' talk for a month, were seriously talking about divorce, and there's nothing you can think about that you want me to change?


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

RandomThoughts said:


> Funny thing is most of the time, you never know. Hell, maybe even she doesn't know, right? For example, we're more or less in a decent place now-- talk, laugh, parent. Anyway, about a week ago I said, " you know what, next time something bothers you that you want me to change, please let me know-- but not in the way that makes me defensive, but calmly somehow." She said, I actually don't have any issues right now. So my thought is, really? We didnt' talk for a month, were seriously talking about divorce, and there's nothing you can think about that you want me to change?




What does she say when you tell her unhappy?


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