# Is this natural selection or residual abuse?



## pragmaster (May 7, 2014)

Hey ladies,

Lately it has dawned on me that nearly every single woman I have ever dated (included my ex-wife) has been overweight. One of the renters I had to kick out told me this recently in an immature way. It didn't hurt my feelings (he was acting like a child) but it made me wonder. Although he didn't know how I met those women and the background context, he was somewhat right. No matter where I go, what I do or what I say, bigger women gravitate towards me naturally and all the "sexy" women tend to be completely disinterested. Why could this be? 

I love all women. I love the conversations and I love energy. I have boundaries and I am not a pig or a guy who goes for the "easy ones". Heck these days I couldn't care less about sex. 

I am not depressed, sad, angry nor even emotional. My life is a blessing, filled with many good friends and abundant wealth. I love myself and my life. A few months ago I questioned whether it had to do with confidence, my height (5.5), my appearance, my attitude, but I know for sure it's not the case. Given the opportunity, I rock. I was once told that shorter men make some women feel huge. The women I have been with seem to be extremely comfortable in their own skin and with very little insecurities. It's one of the main reasons that they are my friends. I like cool chicks without trust issues, but lately I think that every "sexy" woman has some sort of issue to that regard. I don't want to believe this. Do you believe this is true, perhaps to some extent? Do "sexy" women feel like they are being prayed upon more often and perhaps feel safer around men who aren't a threat? Is this really true? I am really starting to empathize and feel sympathy for ladies.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

pragmaster said:


> Hey ladies,
> 
> Lately it has dawned on me that nearly every single woman I have ever dated (included my ex-wife) has been overweight. One of the renters I had to kick out told me this recently in an immature way. It didn't hurt my feelings (he was acting like a child) but it made me wonder. Although he didn't know how I met those women and the background context, he was somewhat right. No matter where I go, what I do or what I say, bigger women gravitate towards me naturally and all the "sexy" women tend to be completely disinterested. Why could this be?
> 
> ...


You are attracted to what you are attracted to. There's no law against dating big women. What is considered "sexy" is entirely in the eyes of the beholder and, culturally, it varies according to time and nationality. What do you care what others think about your selection process? If you like them curvy, you are certainly not alone and you are blessed because the world is a target saturated environment in that respect. Every woman is sexy to some men, so trying to differentiate between sexy and non-sexy women is a waste of time. Don't let others tell you how to think or what beauty looks like. You have your own eyes and your own brain. 

If your renter was some sort of genius, you probably wouldn't have been kicking him out.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I guess I'm confused by your post.

First you say that you have always gone out with heavier women and that heavier women gravite towards you.

Then at the end you ask "Do "sexy" women feel like they are being prayed upon more often and perhaps feel safer around men who aren't a threat? "

What do these two things have to do with each other? The only thing that I can figure out is that you think that sexy women think that you are a threat.

Can you clarify.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

pragmaster said:


> Hey ladies,
> 
> Lately it has dawned on me that nearly every single woman I have ever dated (included my ex-wife) has been overweight. One of the renters I had to kick out told me this recently in an immature way. It didn't hurt my feelings (he was acting like a child) but it made me wonder. Although he didn't know how I met those women and the background context, he was somewhat right. No matter where I go, what I do or what I say, bigger women gravitate towards me naturally and all the "sexy" women tend to be completely disinterested. Why could this be?
> 
> ...



It's quite simple actually.

Women that take care of themselves and are hot, know they are hot and can get any guy they want.

Woman that don't take care of themselves and aren't hot know this and will go for a larger range of guys.

Same thing goes for men. A very fit good looking guy, knows he is fit and hot and will go for the hotter women.

A not so fit larger guy, also know this and will go for a larger range of women.


Now me personally, I like a woman with some meat on her bones. Not morbidly obese, obese or very fat, but she could have an extra 20 lbs to 30 lbs or so and I love it. I also love the ladies who are fit and lean, go to the gym daily and it shows. 


What I've learned in my life so far, men and women, that take care of their bodies by doing the gym daily, eating healthy, dressing sexy, they all know this and use it and can be picky who they want.

The rest of us, average and not in great shape, we all know this and our choices are not as great.

Men and women notice when we take care of ourselves and when we don't.


Everyone has control over their bodies, exercising and eating right. It's whether we act on it or do nothing and time always catches up.



Example. Last weekend I went to Rona, a local hardware store and I picked up everything I had bought and it was too much for me to carry. But I picked it all up anyway and was power walking to my car. When I was getting close to my car, this woman, out of the blue, who was tall, very lean and fit, dressed sexy, in her 30's??, comes up to me, big smile, biting her lip, and says, I would love to tickle you and she was giggling. I stopped, said to her, I can drop everything and we can do more than tickling......she giggled and smiled big time!!! Then I went to my car with my stuff and left. Would this same hot fit woman who flirted with me, still come over if I was very over weight and not dressing nicely? I doubt it. I've had ladies in their 40's flirting with me and they take care of themselves, are very fit and dress sexy.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I can't say I fully understand your question either.. or how one thing relates to the other.. 

It's true.. the HOTTER one is.. the more "easy" attention they will gather, more opportunities at their door....then the next question is.. how much will they abuse it to get what they want (whether that be easy sex, being treated to the finest whatever) ..as some are real suckers to their own demise ....

I will never think -this means such people are the "better catches" in life.... there is so much more to consider when looking for a potential mate.. we should also be looking deeply within to what one is made of..how they love, if you have compatibility.. without these deeper internal things... the house of cards will eventually fall....


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

I don't understand the question


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

I think I sort of understand the question, so let me take a stab at it 

OP's description of himself is sort of how I see myself. I'm also shorter (5'7"). I'm a good looking guy, but not a head turner, I'm friendly and nice, and I think I have a nice body for somebody who doesn't go to the gym.

In other words - a good catch without being intimidating or threatening. I'm definitely in the "average" category (except for the height!), but probably trend a little more to the higher end of average, if that makes sense.

I, too, tend to attract a certain type of woman. They are often cute, a little overweight, not overly confident in themselves (but not meek, either).

And here's the thing - these are the types of women *I* am attracted to. So it works out just fine!

Short answer - I think everybody has a "type". It is based almost entirely around what one thinks of themselves, and how one presents themself. Whatever it is that I am, or that I have, is attractive to a certain demographic. The vast, vast majority of humans are similar.

And even shorter answer, we all tend to be attracted to the best partner we believe we can "land". We tend to be mostly cognizant of our own selves, and are aware of what our range is, and generally stay within it. Not necessarily consciously, either. While this may seem like "settling", it really isn't. It is natural selection, based mainly on protecting ourselves.

Could I date an Angelina Jolie type? Perhaps. Would I be able to keep her from a Brad Pitt? Unlikely. And we humans just naturally know this, therefore we instinctively go for the partners we feel we'll be more successful in partnering with - and keeping.

I could spend several paragraphs illustrating my point by talking about my ex wife, who at one point in her life, thought I was the s***. But once she discovered the gym, and running, and lost 60lbs and transformed from a cute, girl-next-door type, to a sexy knock-out, how I wasn't in her demographic anymore. All of a sudden, an entirely different type of man was noticing her. It's insulting, but it's a reality. We made such a good pair for many, many years. By the end of our marriage, there was an imbalance there, which was apparent and obvious. Had she been the way she was at the end of our marriage when we had first met, it is unlikely she would have given me the time of day.

And that's a very interesting thing about being human - we can transform ourselves, mentally and physically. In the animal world, you either have bright feathers, or you don't. We humans can make our feathers brighter, if we so choose. We do it under the guise of doing it for ourselves, but deep down, that's not really true. If one is not happy with their physique, for example, and wants to change it, it's not really about doing it for yourself so much as it is doing it for others - even if we're already partnered.


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## pragmaster (May 7, 2014)

My problem is this. The women that I am actually attracted to are never the ones that are attracted to me and the women that I am not attracted to are always attracted to me. I am speaking purely on a physical level. 

Do you have any idea what it's like to date women you aren't sexually attracted to? Welcome to 99% of the relationships I have ever been in. One might ask well why do you date those women? I guess the answer would be because I don't judge anybody based on their appearance and give everyone a chance. Plus, the girls I dated were really cool and had awesome linguistic skills. 

I don't care what other people say but you know what, lately I feel like I deserve a woman that I am sexually attracted to. I want to change this and am asking for help. Other then work out, eat healthy. dress nicely and stay well groomed, I just can't think of anything else that would change the way many women perceive me. It's not only discouraging sometimes I honestly feel like it's sexist. I've read the MMSLP and the NMNG and both have helped a lot. The whole alpha approach has some validity as it works great for me, but it doesn't change the fact that I am still a very non-threatening guy and I just about always have a smile on my face. 

I've come to grips that I am not David Beckham. It's cool. My intent is not to come off negative or self-entitled. I just don't know what the hell I am doing that turns off sexy or healthy women. Maybe it's more of a rant then a question. Then there's the whole game and chasing women. I don't play games, I do not chase women and maybe that needs to change (?). 

I took a long break from dating recently. Before jumping back I really want to narrow down my needs and my wants and anything helps.

So yeah. What the heck could I be doing that attracts women with low self-esteem? Could it be just the simple fact that I am a cool guy to be around and I am simply overthinking this?


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Sounds like you are saying HOT Women always go for the Bad Boys...you are not one of them, you've accepted this.... but darn it....you have A LOT to offer .. sound about right ?


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

I'm still trying to figure this out... You say the women you are sexually attracted to are not into you. So, have you actually tried? 

Is this based upon a specific type or is this a specific woman? I'm just trying to figure the details.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

ridal said:


> Bigger women are more desperate because most guys don't want them, conversely sexier women have guys coming on to them all the time, they aren't interested in you because they've got plenty of better looking guys to pick from.



I certainly am not the "better" looking guy, however it never stopped me... Sometimes it paid off other times not. I never took rejection personal, it was always, who is up next.


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## Morcoll (Apr 22, 2015)

I've come to grips that I am not David Beckham. It's cool. My intent is not to come off negative or self-entitled. I just don't know what the hell I am doing that turns off sexy or healthy women. Maybe it's more of a rant then a question. Then there's the whole game and chasing women. I don't play games, I do not chase women and maybe that needs to change (?). 

*****************

Google "Corey Wayne" or look him up on you tube and start watching his videos. 

You are having a problem creating attraction with women. Your confidence wanes, even if it is subconscious, when you meet a woman you ARE attracted to, and that turns her off. 

When you meet someone you could take or leave, you are just yourself and comfortable in your own skin, and women feel that and feel comfortable and safe around you. Whenever you can feel so good about yourself you are this way around ALL women, and people in general, you are going to start drawing a wider range of people to you.

Frankly, it is really not about looks nearly as much with women, so you definitely have a chance with more women than you think. 

Seriously, there are about 1800 videos Corey Wayne has posted for free and many are about confidence, creating attraction, avoiding the friend zone. Things you will be interested to learn.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

pragmaster said:


> My problem is this. The women that I am actually attracted to are never the ones that are attracted to me and the women that I am not attracted to are always attracted to me. I am speaking purely on a physical level.
> 
> Do you have any idea what it's like to date women you aren't sexually attracted to? Welcome to 99% of the relationships I have ever been in. One might ask well why do you date those women? I guess the answer would be because I don't judge anybody based on their appearance and give everyone a chance. Plus, the girls I dated were really cool and had awesome linguistic skills.
> 
> ...



I'm no dating expert, but honestly, they're smelling something off you. A tiny bit of insecurity, perhaps.

How do you change that? Well, if you like who you are as a person, you don't. If you have no issues with changing your fundamentals, even to the point of becoming a new man, go for it.

But really and truly, sexual physical attraction is a fool's game anyway. It exists, it's real, it's important to many, if not all of us (at least to a certain extent), but the reality is that when you put too much stock into it, you'll be in for a rude awakening after kids, after marriage, after ageing, whatever.

I think the easier answer is to learn to appreciate the female body in as many forms as you can. It's not as difficult as you think. When you find someone you really click with, and who rocks your world in bed, then the body becomes less relevant.

And not to make complete assumptions, but perhaps your view of the "ideal" woman's body has been dictated to you by outside sources, and you may also be judging a book by it's cover.

Two good examples from my life: my ex wife, after she dropped a lot of weight and got fit, looked amazing in what became her daily uniform - tight, low cut jeans, tight, cropped t-shirts, lots of makeup, cleavage. Seriously looked like a model. Naked? Not even close. Nobby knees, flat butt, saggy boobs, stretch marks. Didn't bother me any, obviously, but it was night and day. Clothing and other odds and ends can hide a lot of things.

A woman I dated for a short time a while ago - total opposite. Didn't look like much from the outside, fully clothed. Everything off, and holy hell, what a body. Thick, but tight and toned and firm. I could never figure it out. Guess she didn't want to show it off.


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## pragmaster (May 7, 2014)

Google "Corey Wayne" or look him up on you tube and start watching his videos. 

Hey everyone,

Alexm hit it on the head. Something I am doing is turning off certain types of women (notably the ones who know they are sexy) and I think it's because of my perception about women. It's not my confidence, it's not a lack of self-esteem, my attitude, nor does it have to do with anything related to fear of rejection. It's an energy or feeling I must be giving off subconsciously. It's got to be it. When I am myself and I have no expectations nor hidden intent, it shows, but I still don't know what specifically women are able to read from me that gives them that vibe.

I talked to a friend of mine last night about my problems. He said you know what, you sound like a sex addict.

I said what?? He said yeah. Lol. I told him I thought it was normal that men needed sex or to ejaculate just as is air (the blue balls theory). In my own case when I don't have any, I start losing focus and keep losing focus until it's released. I can't sleep when I am like that. I haven't gone without sex or masterbation for more than a week in over 10 years. Apparently that's unhealthy so yeah I need to work on myself and maybe even take some therapy. I seriously thought all men were like this and just didn't talk about it. I guess not (?)

He recommended I try celibacy for a year. Great idea and a challenge!!

I think I still see women as sex objects. I blame the porn for that. 
I just don't know how some women can pick up on it and while others can't.

Women are really intuitive. It's amazing. This morning I was crying from a song that played on the radio. It just hit me. I had wiped off the tears and everything but even then, when I went to grab my coffee shortly after, the lady who gave it to me looked twice. She knew something was up. 

How can I gain this super power???!!


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## Cecezakat (Jun 20, 2015)

Women can sense a lot from you, so if you are thinking about sex even more than most men and you find her sexually attractive she probably picks up on that. They may think that's all you will appreciate about them and are turned off. Try hard not to think at all about sex or how attractive she is when you approach a girl you see has what you like. Find something else about her that you would like or have in common and mentally focus only on that. Stop watching porn because that isn't going to help you in that regard at all.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

Relax, just relax around women. When it comes to sports or business, get your intensity mojo flowing, but when it comes to forging a relationship, you need to relax. I don't know how any life coach will teach you that type of mentality. It is switch in the head that needs to be toggled.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

You've said in other threads things to the effect that you hate wasting time on other people, that you don't respect women, that you lack empathy, that you always think of yourself first, that you lose focus quickly and that you generally don't care about others. More than one TAMer has suggested you explore with a professional the possibility that you suffer from one of the Cluster B personality disorders. 

Women with good emotional health, including good self-esteem, won't hang around with anyone - male or female - who is giving off that vibe. And many find it very easy to pick up on. So, that may be what you're giving off. And you should cut that out.


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## pragmaster (May 7, 2014)

It's not that I think about sex a lot, it's that it's the first thing that comes to mind when I see any sexy woman. More like a trigger. It's not a thought, it's a feeling of horniness and an instant objectification. I find myself constantly checking out women (although usually just the face), even if I have no intention of talking to them. I am not that bad though, I never check out a woman if I risk being caught by anybody. Women are a distraction most times and this is what I want to change. I can't just avoid women either. I have to stalk my mind and stay on top of the game. I love women. I do not treat them poorly. I do not use women. Never have. Don't feel guilty or ashamed of anything, but somewhere inside the back of my mind, and I don't know where it came from, part of me might believe they are objects. This is what I want to change. This, I believe could be the core of the problem. I do not want to believe this but for some reason it's been drilled in my head, probably from breakup pains early on in my life. Every day is a challenge. I don't fear rejection or fear of being alone. This is something else and maybe through therapy I can figure it out. 

Yes, porn is bad. No more of that. 

I get a lot of mixed signals from women and it confuses me a lot. I've read a lot on eye contact and for me I suck at playing "eye games". I don't have the patience for **** like that. Do you want to meet, or not? I can tell when a woman checks me out, but that is when I lose interest. Most of the women I have ever been with, well, were effortless. I didn't try and get her number. I was just being myself and we happened to connect. It was healthy, natural, and I knew it. I feel like I am not myself when I approach a woman checking me out to see what she is about. I don't feel uncomfortable, it's just not me to make up some bull**** just to talk to her. I don't small talk. I truly don't care about strangers, so why should I lie? My empathy is selective. I like flirting, but I am an extremely direct person with ambivert and pragmatic tendencies. Another challenge. 

For me usually looks and the way a woman speaks are all I need to decide if I want to ask her her number. Over time I have learned to also factor in hobbies, religion and political interests to avoid wasting time later. Love is love, sure, but you know what, with my divorce I pretty much took what I could get. This time around, I want a woman with similar interests and beliefs because I am looking for something longterm and it's important to me. Plus, even making new lady friends, if they don't have similar hobbies or interests as myself, I have no idea what to do with them when they come over other then have sex. Another challenge. 

I am constantly aware of all of the women in my surroundings. When you say relax, this is what I want to stop doing. When I am actually with women, talking to them and whatnot, no problem. I am quite chill and not a talker. 

Many times I thought of how awesome it would be to meet a woman who didn't talk a lot. Combine that with a pretty face, zen mentality, family values and boom you have my dream woman. 

Not ranting, just have a lot to say. Thanks for reading and helping me out.


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## pragmaster (May 7, 2014)

You could call it Cluster B. I don't know. Not a dyck although I am very detached and aloof. In the Briggs Myers test I took recently I am a INTJ. If that helps! 

I have narcissistic tendencies, but none to the extent that I read up online.

I know I can be very selfish and arrogant at times, but that's about it. None of my friends think there is anything wrong with me. I don't either, but I want to dig deeper to fix problems for my own sake.


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