# Please help. I've unintentionally hurt and pushed away the one I love dearly.



## Norton

Hi, 

I wonder if anyone could help me workout a way to deal with this extremely sad and upsetting situation and advise on the best way to go about trying to reconcile with the woman I love dearly and who I was meant to be marrying.

This is quite complicated spanning over an eight year period so I will start from the very beginning to help with understanding exactly what has happened.

I'm a 36 year old male and going back to March 2005 I met through a dating website the woman of my dreams who I'll refer to as J for her protection. (She has an unusual name that could otherwise be easily recognized with a google search.) We dated for just over 2 years until July 2007 and during that period we had such a wonderful time together doing all the usual stuff that close couples do like eating out, the cinema, holidays away etc etc etc. We have so much in common and are like two peas in a pod in so many ways. 

In the June of 2007 we hit an obstacle as we ended up with an unwanted pregnancy and J panicked quite significantly as although we never wanted children J also understandably said that she could never go through with an abortion either. I reassured J that I would be there for her and support her throughout whatever she decided to do. She decided on a termination however even though I said that I would be there for her J went on to say that she no longer loved me anymore and finished our relationship before I knew what had happened. She went completely cold on me after finishing the relationship and didn't want to even speak anymore. I was devastated. I never really knew exactly what happened at the time and if J really went through with the termination due to the fact that she just wouldn't communicate with me at all even though I tried desperately to communicate with her. (We'd never really got to know each others friends at the time.) Whatever I did she just wouldn't talk. 

Four years went by and I have to say that I really did miss her everyday of that time so very much. During that time I have to also confess that I was very lost due mainly to our situation but also because I ended up suffering with serious migraines everyday for months on end which interfered with my work. I am an experienced floor layer by trade however in 2008 I decided to have a go at growing on ornamental pond fish as a way to an income as it's something that I have always been interested in and due to the migraines I thought that it would be more flexible. 

Even though I so desperately wanted I never thought that I would ever see J again however to my amazement in July 2011 she ended up sending me a card saying that she had been to see a counsellor and if I wasn't in a relationship said that she would like to meet up again. I just couldn't believe it and I was so happy and excited to have heard from her and I replied saying that I would also like to meet up with her. We met up and talked and J said that although at one point after she went through with the abortion she said that she pretty much hated me the counsellor had made her realize that in fact she did actually still love me. I had never stopped loving J for all the time that we had been apart and it wasn't long before we were back together as loving partners again and planning to get married. We were both so happy it really was amazing.

Here's where the crunch comes. The ornamental fish business that I had started to set up turned out not to be as flexible as I had imagined at the time and I unwittingly bit off more than I could chew with it. To cut a long story short, I needed to finish building what I had started or else all of the fish that I had accumulated by that time were extremely vulnerable to dying due to how quickly they were growing in their temporary ponds and pools and I also needed to be close by due to the fact that if there was ever a power failure (and there often was) I needed to be there to start up emergency equipment or else again they would have all died within an hour or two of the power going off. This as anyone could understand was very very restricting indeed regarding going out in the way that J and myself always used to as a couple and I just couldn't find a way around it until I had finished what I had set out to do before J actually got back in contact again. (I was on a really tight budget and just couldn't afford to employ anyone to help out.)

Both J and myself absolutely love animals with J caring about them so much that she often goes on animal welfare demos and won't touch a product that has been tested on them, however as time went on I just wasn't able to convince her that she is infinitely more important to me than the fish I was building a permanent site for due to the fact that I couldn't spend as much time with J as as we both desperately wanted. I really thought that J understood the situation due to how much that she actually cares for animals as the bottom line was that they could have all easily died if left and if not properly looked after. 

Anyway, literally just as I was completing what I needed to do for the fish back towards the end of March this year J sadly finished our relationship again saying that I had "neglected" her and not spent enough time together. She has also gone extremely cold towards me again even though we seemed to finish as friends and I quite willingly helped her move all of her stuff out of mine and into her new flat with her. And she seemed to be in no rush whatsoever to get away from me at the time even wanting to stay for dinner and to watch tv together. I have managed to get an answer as to why she has gone cold and she has replied and said that I have "hurt" her as I made her feel "neglected" and "unimportant" with how much time I spent on trying to sort out all of the fish. She has also said that she is "very sad and disappointed" about what has happened and that she really wanted it to workout between us. I tried to arrange a face to face chat with her to try to explain just how special she is to me but she just said that there was nothing that I could say that would make any difference and that our relationship is over. I have also tried writing to her (it wasn't the best of letters re-reading it) to explain how special she is to me but again she has just said that I've hurt her, and that although she wanted our relationship to work and that it really would have been "wonderful" if it had of, there's no getting away from the fact that I put the fish first and neglected her and it's too late now as she has made up her mind and we're finished. I just don't know what to do because there is just no way that any fish is more important or even close to J (it's almost ridiculous to think so) but I cannot seem to make her realize this. I just feel like pulling my hair out because I'm so frustrated at not knowing how to make her understand just how special she is to me and that I was just temporarily cornered away from her and us with the fish. 

I have now gone back to the floor-laying instead of carrying on with the fish as I now seem to have control over the migraines which I mentioned in the letter however J has said that I'm just adding insult to injury by telling her this after how long she waited for me to deal with the fish. She is clearly very very upset at what has happened. 

Something else that is confusing me that I would like to understand is that I have been paying back some money I borrowed off of J bit by bit however she is refusing to acknowledge that she is receiving it. (I've been sending her a cheque by post as she doesn't want to see me.) I don't mean that she is denying that she has got it, just that she doesn't want to strike up any conversation with me by confirming that she has actually received it. This is something that is really quite unsettling for me as it doesn't make a great deal of sense and what is concerning me the most is that I have witnessed J self-harming by literally punching herself in the head when very little has been wrong and I am now really very very worried about her state of mind. Just what do I do especially as I'm not really very close to any of her friends although I do now know two of them and her Mum is just not very approachable. I also feel that I could make matters worst by going behind J's back by approaching anyone she knows.

The situation now is that she has asked me to leave her alone just over six weeks ago which I have done as I really don't want to hurt, upset or push her away any further but I am obviously very worried about her for reasons mentioned and although I desperately want to contact her I feel that I can't as she has asked me not to. I also desperately want her to realize that although I can see how she could feel second place to these fish because of all the time I spent with them that in fact there is just no comparison whatsoever and that she is far far more important to me than anything or anyone ever could be. Naturally I also want her to realize that I really and truly do love her to the bottom of my heart and I very much want us to be together.

Any sound advice on the best way to handle this would be very very much appreciated. 

Norton


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## cdbaker

Oh man oh man... at first thought, it sounds like she has some serious issues regarding codependance, attention demands, and perhaps immaturity. You on the other hand seem to be doing everything you can to push her away, obviously quite unintentionally.

I understand that you love the girl, and believe me I've been in a similar boat and responded much the way you did and received much the same response from her. Please understand that I mean no offense here, but you probably come off to her as rather pathetic, desperate, and emotional. I get that you ARE desperate and emotional, who wouldn't be when they feel their love slipping away, but presenting yourself that way to HER is probably the worst thing you can do. Begging her for time to sit down and explain how special she is and how in love you are? I bet she couldn't wait to get off the phone with you after that.

There is a lot involved here, but one quick tip is to remember that you can't always take a woman's word when she tells you what she wants or what you did wrong or didn't do wrong. Women want men, and they want their men to behave like men. That means being a leader, being firm/resolute, being able to tell her no, doing typical man things, sexually dominant, aggressive, etc. Begging/pleading, falling over yourself to scrape together as many moments with her as you can, constant apologizing, or manipulatively trying to reach out to her are all going to push her away quicker than you can saw "goodbye." 

I'm guessing that you weren't _actually_ neglecting her, at least not because of your business, if at all. That's just the impression that I get based on how incredibly needy she seems and my guess that you give in to her "needs" 99% of the time even at great personal expense. I get the impression that the excitement fizzled for her, you became unattractive to her due to your intense need to try to please her at all costs (which is actually unattractive to women btw), and she moved on, just coming up with a few excuses to explain her decision. Otherwise your resolving those issues (your time commitment to work, migraines, etc.) would have brought her back or at least piqued her interest. So I don't think it has anything to do with your business.

Honestly it sounds to me like you have already killed the relationship by the fact that she has so vehemently demanded that you never contact her, something I suspect she has indicated many times but you found various reasons/excuses to work around that request. So I think you need to take the time to address your own issues that are involved here by seeking independent counseling and maybe reading a few books that could help. One that I really loved is "The Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011" which I'm confident could really help you. "Boundaries: When to say yes, how to say no to take control of your life" or the similar relationship focused version, "Boundaries in Marriage" would also be very useful. I'm sure there are more that others here could suggest.

Mostly I think you need to man up here. Again, I mean no offense, but from what you describe, no woman would want a groveling lovesick man who can't stand up to her. Women like to test us guys repeatedly to determine our mettle as a Man and failing too many of those tests lead to women who quickly lose interest. And of course they won't tell you that, or at least they won't tell you the real reason because they won't be aware of it. Instead they'll always have other much more easily quantifiable reasons, like neglect, irresponsibility, or if they don't care enough, you'll just hear the old, "I love you but I'm not IN love with you" line. Most of the time, by the time it has gotten to that point she has already lined up a new guy, which by the way has probably already happened here in your case. I don't say that to hurt you, as I'm it does, but it's best to always face the truth (or likely truth) rather than hide from it.

If you want her back, and I'm sure you do, there is always a chance, but you really need to pull a 180 here and quickly.


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## thompkevin

OK, first of all, I really don't think you pushed her away. You were doing something that was important for you. It doesn't necessarily mean that you neglected her. You did your best, so stop giving yourself a hard time about it.

Second, from what it sounds like, she has a lot of issues. If she runs away every time you are busy with work and can't pay attention to her, what kind of relationship would it be?

In the end, if you want to win her back, just stay away from her for a while. Don't be needy and yes, man up. You can try to contact her after a 3-4 months to see if she wants to meet you, but until then, stay away from her.


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## biola

Your girlfriend is a needy and insecure woman with more issues than rolling stones!You may not feel like it now but I can guarantee you that if you open yourself to othjer possibilities,you will be amazed at the nimber of quality women who would bring a lot of joy,fun and excitement to your life.Good luck!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy

You know the phrase it's not you , it's her.

It's very true in this case.

She's very obviously living with a lot of issues, including a massive inability to communicate with you, and frankly a lack of empathy for your feelings.

There may be some official mental disorder she's got going on - her actions and reactions are not normal for an adult. She seems to either very very in love or very very not in love, no middle ground, no process where she grows stronger or weaker. Just a binary switch - she super is or she super isn't.

And you not really knowing her friends after long dating is frankly odd too. Like she hasn't got any real friends, or she's keeping them compartmentalized in her life. Neither of which is a good sign.

My guess is that you do not want to chase her, girls like her will mess with you and have you walking on eggshells forever. They aren't the got your back, best friend, grow old together partners. They are the high drama, you doing everything you can, but its never enough types.


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## Norton

Many thanks for your advice and input guys.. It's very much appreciated. It helps to look at things from a different point of view. I do agree that J does have issues however I have to say that our good times without doubt outweigh the bad. (Especially when I wasn't so bogged down with all that I was doing with the fish. I did very much neglect her and was very rarely about even canceling our holiday to try to finish things.) I also feel that it's such a shame that as her main issues seem to be based around insecurity, and I am very much into her and really haven't ever wanted anyone else since we first met all those 8 years ago, that we can't work things out and have a great future together. It feels wrong to leave her be and not try to somehow make her understand just how special she is not just to me but also as someone who is lucky enough to have a shot at the gift of life. She gets so down and is such a defeatist at times and it's very very sad to see. I can't help but think that she won't ever make old bones with how she seems to get at times. I was hoping to find a way to go about proving myself to her sooner rather than later due to being worried about the possible state of her mind but I think that I've probably blown that unless anyone can think of something I haven't. Again, thanks guys.


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## cdbaker

"It feels wrong to leave her be and not try to somehow make her understand just how special she is not just to me but also as someone who is lucky enough to have a shot at the gift of life."

I don't know what to make of this sentence. First however, her misunderstanding "how special she is" to you is NOT the reason why you aren't together right now. Second, what does "as someone who is lucky enough to have a shot at the gift of life" How does she have a shot at the gift of life, and what does that mean?

I wish I had some advice for ya man. Like I said before, I'm concerned that the 180 wouldn't work this late in the game, even if she did have all the wiring in her head working correctly. At the same time, it is still the best thing for you. Just keep focusing on yourself right now. Either it earns you a chance at winning her back some day or it sets you up for someone better down the road. It's win-win.


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## EleGirl

Norton said:


> Something else that is confusing me that I would like to understand is that I have been paying back some money I borrowed off of J bit by bit however she is refusing to acknowledge that she is receiving it. (I've been sending her a cheque by post as she doesn't want to see me.) I don't mean that she is denying that she has got it, just that she doesn't want to strike up any conversation with me by confirming that she has actually received it.


You do not need any communication with her at all about the cheques. When she cashes them you know that she go them. Trying to get a response out of her for this will only serve to drive her away further.




Norton said:


> This is something that is really quite unsettling for me as it doesn't make a great deal of sense and what is concerning me the most is that I have witnessed J self-harming by literally punching herself in the head when very little has been wrong and I am now really very very worried about her state of mind.


Very little might be wrong according to you. But obviously very much is wrong according to her. 

This sounds like a huge part of the problem. It sounds like she kept telling you that there was a big problem and you just blew it off. 



Norton said:


> Just what do I do especially as I'm not really very close to any of her friends although I do now know two of them and her Mum is just not very approachable. I also feel that I could make matters worst by going behind J's back by approaching anyone she knows.


This is between the two of you. Leave the others out of it.


Norton said:


> The situation now is that she has asked me to leave her alone just over six weeks ago which I have done as I really don't want to hurt, upset or push her away any further but I am obviously very worried about her for reasons mentioned and although I desperately want to contact her I feel that I can't as she has asked me not to. I also desperately want her to realize that although I can see how she could feel second place to these fish because of all the time I spent with them that in fact there is just no comparison whatsoever and that she is far far more important to me than anything or anyone ever could be. Naturally I also want her to realize that I really and truly do love her to the bottom of my heart and I very much want us to be together.


Before any further advice and be given more info is really needed.

How old are the two of you?
Was the fish business actually bringing in enough profit (after expenses) to at least equal what you make laying tile?

How many hours a week did you spend on the business?

How many hours a week did you spend with J, just the two of you, doing date-like things?


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## Coffee Amore

She sounds like she has depression. It's emotionally draining to be with someone who is constantly negative, low, and hard on themselves. You can't always be her cheerleader. Her issues, her insecurities are her issues to solve. We all have problems in life. None of us goes through life unscatheed, but at some point we have to put on our big boy or girl pants and deal with our own issues ourselves. You can't save her from herself. She sounds like someone who needs constant reassurance of her self worth. That's like having a cup with small hole..no matter how often you pour water into it, you can't ever fill it up (i.e. make her realize her worth). It's going to drain you of energy to prop her up from her demons. 

I think you're a nice man. However, I think you are taking too much on yourself and you're definitely blaming yourself for things that aren't truly your fault. 



Norton said:


> Many thanks for your advice and input guys.. It's very much appreciated. It helps to look at things from a different point of view. I do agree that J does have issues however I have to say that our good times without doubt outweigh the bad. (Especially when I wasn't so bogged down with all that I was doing with the fish. I did very much neglect her and was very rarely about even canceling our holiday to try to finish things.) I also feel that it's such a shame that as her main issues seem to be based around insecurity, and I am very much into her and really haven't ever wanted anyone else since we first met all those 8 years ago, that we can't work things out and have a great future together. It feels wrong to leave her be and not try to somehow make her understand just how special she is not just to me but also as someone who is lucky enough to have a shot at the gift of life. She gets so down and is such a defeatist at times and it's very very sad to see. I can't help but think that she won't ever make old bones with how she seems to get at times. I was hoping to find a way to go about proving myself to her sooner rather than later due to being worried about the possible state of her mind but I think that I've probably blown that unless anyone can think of something I haven't. Again, thanks guys.


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## Norton

Hello all, I hope everyone is ok.

I have to apologize as I'm not great at explaining myself at times especially in writing. 

cdbaker, many thanks for your help and advice. I hope things are going well for you and your circumstances. What I meant by saying "as someone who is lucky enough to have a shot at the gift of life" is that life is incredibly special and precious and that apart from J not making the most of it by not really doing much without me, the more I think about it the more I realize that she does seem to swing between highs and lows, (not huge swings how I understand bi-polar to be) and she can also be quite difficult to motivate at times. To be honest, although she is a lovely woman for the majority of the time she can also be quite difficult with the way that she sometimes behaves and with how her moods come across, and it worries me the more I now think about it. 

I'm not finding all this very easy to explain fully because I'm basing what I'm worried about on bits and pieces of issues and actions from over the years but the bottom line is that although she has told me that she has never had a suicidal thought in her life, about a month before she finished us again she muttered something along the lines of rather being dead than not have our relationship. Yes, I know, I'm an absolute fool for dismissing it and not picking her up on it at the time, especially with what I've just written above, I can't stop kicking myself now. My pretty pathetic excuse is that at the time she was also acting in the attention seeking and drama queen ways that she infrequently can at times and I really just didn't take the notice of it that I now realize I should have. What is really concerning me now that I've been thinking back over all that has happened during the time that we've known each other and it's that I wonder if she could actually be pretty good at hiding what could be serious depression, and that in fact I have failed to be there for her at her greatest need for me to be. I just don't know as she obviously doesn't want to communicate in anyway whatsoever and I fear that now I've dismissed what could be real she won't trust me anyway and understandably so. (I obviously realize that I have messed up very badly with this.) To just give an example of what I mean by being a bit of an attention seeking drama queen so that you can possibly also understand why her actions are somewhat difficult to accurately decipher at times, a few months before she finished us again I asked her if she would move some of her stuff that was in the way of me getting to the bedroom window to clean up the condensation and she lost her rag so much that she grabbed hold of the nearest wardrobe and started violently shaking it and ended up hurting her wrist. I just thought at the time that it was her own fault for needlessly loosing her temper but she ended up trying to blame me for it and continued to complain about the pain for weeks until she finally told me that it was hurting so much that she felt physically sick. She had already been to the doctors by that time but they couldn't find anything wrong and ended up just referring her to see a physiotherapist which I did see the referral note for. Was her wrist really making her feel physically sick when the doctor couldn't find anything wrong with it?. I understand pain but could anyone really and truly feel "physically sick" from hurting their wrist by shaking a wardrobe?. Or was she just attention seeking by complaining about it so much and holding her wrist out in front of me like a youngster would?. All I can now say is that I just wish that I would have wrapped my arms around her and hugged her tightly in the way that I always used to before I began to think that she was just acting for my attention and told her that I would do anything to help make her feel better. That way I would have at least gained her trust whichever way that she was really feeling and we could have worked on what the real problem was together over time. 

Hi EleGirl and thankyou for the advice and questions. I'm 36 and J is 41. The fish business wasn't really making any significant money at the time as it needed to be built up to have really got anywhere worthwhile. As I said, my biggest problems with it were that I really did bite off more than I could chew with the building side of things grossly underestimating how long it was going to take for me to complete on my own, (it was a team job really) and frustratingly I couldn't go far because of how vulnerable all the fish were until completing what I set out to do. Also, as I had invested thousands into it by the time that J had actually got back in contact I didn't really want to throw it all away when finishing what I had started will at least get me back my investment gradually without that much more time or effort. And I could still do the floor-laying to enable J and myself to do all the things that we wanted. I would just like to say that had I have known that it was all going to come to this I would have just sold most of the fish ages ago and accepted losing a lot of the money even though I couldn't afford to. It would have been a lot, lot more easy for me to accept than losing J.

All of my week was taken up on the fish and sadly the only time that J and myself really had together was when I cooked for us and we sat down to eat on evenings (I done all the cooking and clearing up as J bought the food). The only dating stuff we did was going to the cinema, walks in the local countryside, or out for meals once or twice a month which understandably wasn't enough. I didn't mean it to be like that but I just felt cornered at the time. It certainly wasn't going to be like it forever. When we were together before we were out doing something pretty much every weekend.

I see what you're saying about the cheques however as I helped J move into her new flat without any arguments and we hugged each other when I left the only reasons that I can see why she doesn't want to acknowledge me sending her something valuable is that, a) she is hurting quite badly for losing the relationship that we both wanted, b) she wants to hurt me for neglecting her, or c) she is depressed. I really don't think that she would be leading me to think that she might want to get back together by just acknowledging receipt of money. I'm not expecting a thankyou as such for returning the money as it was J who did me the favour of lending me it in the first place, I just think that it's only natural to acknowledge something like that. Apart from the issues I've mentioned about above J is usually a very thoughtful, kind and caring person and I just don't think that her not acknowledging the money fits in with that.

I sat here last night for hours trying to think over everything and the more I recall the more and more I realize that there are a lot more issues than I first thought. And the more I think about my confusion over J's behaviors, however infrequent and outweighed by the good they are, the more I realize that actually, a drama queen or not, I have failed her and our relationship by not knowing what to do. As I've said I always used to put my arms around her, give her a big hug and reassure her that everything would be ok but when I started to think that she was acting in a way that was completely unnecessary, especially for our ages, I obviously wondered if I was doing the right thing. What really gets to me is that if I had definitely known what was really wrong I would have walked from the ends of the earth to have helped in whatever way I possibly could. 

Something else I wonder what other peoples thoughts are on is that on one day during the month or so before J finished our relationship again I was having a bad day and I ended up going out for a long walk to clear my head. I did actually go for quite a trek and when I got back J mentioned to me in a less than endearing way that I stank of testosterone. It's something that she has never said to me before and she made a point of it being an ability that I might be surprised to hear about. At the time I didn't think too much of it but I have since thought about it again and being slightly puzzled I asked my good old Mum what she thought and she said that her impression was that J could very well have been thinking that I was out cheating on her and that was her way of making me aware of it. Because J usually speaks her mind about things I originally thought that she would have just came out with accusing me of an affair but the more I think about how sensitive she can be at times I now wonder if in fact she wouldn't have been able to cope with her feelings if it was true and for that reason she didn't want to take me up on it any further. It would be good to hear other peoples thoughts on this. 

Also it's now coming up to the time when I should send J another cheque and I'm wondering if I should use this opportunity to say something to her in a small note or just send her the money without saying anything other than hello and I hope that she is ok.


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## Mr Blunt

> I sat here last night for hours trying to think over everything and the more I recall the more and more I realize that there are a lot more issues than I first thought. And the more I think about my confusion over J's behaviors, however infrequent and outweighed by the good they are, the more I realize that actually, a drama queen or not, *I have failed her and our relationship by not knowing what to do*




*Your girlfriend has problems that YOU CAN NOT FIX*
How many times in your recent post have you have indicated that you could do something to fix her? You are going to make yourself sick and a door mat if you keep thinking that you can fix her. 

From what you wrote she did not even try to discuss her problems with you or get any help to resolve the problems. She is 41 and seems very poor at resolving relationship problems; that should be a huge red flag!

If you do not work on getting over her and move on you will become a door mat that thinks that you can solve this woman’s life. To some degree I think that you are her scapegoat for her own problems.


You do not have any children with this woman nor are you legally bond to her

*Find a way to get over her or you will become a wimp!*

Blunt


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