# I saw improvement,but I was fooled.



## Deguello (Apr 3, 2015)

I came home on tuesday,made sure we had nothing planned,so I said.doy ou Want to the bed room and fool around" 
The response was a giggle, roll of the eyes.I said that is a yes or. No question,still nothing. Self there is trouble here that was rejection plain and simple .on Thursday She complained about her back hurting,all I said was sorry to hear that take some advil then I went to the garage,two can play that 
Game, any thoughts,did I over react?


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

As long as you were aloof and didn’t act hurt. FWIW, some women don’t like men being sexual panhandlers so you could have grabbed her hand and taken her upstairs. I get it. Sucks when someone is apathetic WRT to your passions (sexual or otherwise).


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

One of the biggest mistakes men make is they ASK PERMISSION for sex. Here is a very good rule you can use for the rest of your life: Woman do not want to be in charge of or have permission controls over their sex. They want you to take them like a man and show her your desire for her.

Asking a woman if she wants to have sex with you is like a fifth grader tugging on her pony tails.

As her man it is your duty to be in charge of sex and stroke her desire.

Don’t be her lap dog and wait for her to pet you.

Another tip: Passive Aggressiveness will never get you laid.


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## Deguello (Apr 3, 2015)

aaarghdub said:


> As long as you were aloof and didn’t act hurt. FWIW, some women don’t like men being sexual panhandlers so you could have grabbed her hand and taken her upstairs. I get it. Sucks when someone is apathetic has WRT to your passions (sexual or otherwise).
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I need a translation,what the hell is"FWIW" and WRT.You make some good points . I'll do that next time, I remove any control she thinks she has. I'll let you know.
Mr nice guy has left the building. Tomorrow will be different, some of the things she don't want to do,is going to begin to happen. Thanks
DEGUELLO,


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

FWIW=For what it’s worth. 
WRT=With regards to.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Great advice above and I’d add try to be a bit more romance minded... think more about setting the stage as the goal. Be confident and even a bit silly... turn on some music and grab her and dance her around the kitchen when she’s preparing dinner (with a few twirls and dips). Surprise her with a glass of wine or a gift... don’t even hint at sex though... just act like a gentleman and pick your moments. Just asking for sex (though sometimes effective) is perhaps the least creative thing you can do to share your interest... I bet she already knows.

Don’t you just love the mystery of a woman? To me it’s all a big game... but the rewards are pretty fantastic.


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

Also read Mating in Captivity by Ester Perel. Totally opened my eyes on things that drive and strangle a women’s sexual passion along with managing two polar opposites: the domestic and the erotic.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Deguello said:


> Mr nice guy has left the building. Tomorrow will be different, some of the things she don't want to do,is going to begin to happen. Thanks
> DEGUELLO,


Maybe I wasn’t clear. A rape charge isn’t what your looking for.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Another option is to hold your wife accountable. I, contrary to some others here on TMB, don't think it's the guys responsibility to make sex happen. That is because the guy ultimately is not in control; the woman has to decide to allow sex and there are many reasons she may refuse that have nothing to do with him.

A better approach is to acknowledge that it is your job to maintain an environment conducive to good sex. *At the same time, it is her responsibility to do the same.* She needs to make sure she gets herself in the right mindset for sex, clears some time in her schedule, destresses, or whatever needs to happen on her end independent from you.

My suggestion is that you keep approaching the sex need without being whiny or passive-aggressive. Lead to sex and if she balks, just note that this isn't what was agreed upon, isn't relationship friendly, and move on with your day. After a while if things aren't better, step up and tell her that blowing off your needs is not acceptable and she needs to be responsible for her response and behaving in a relationship-friendly manner and priority. Yes, you do expect her to sacrifice if necessary to meet your need.

If that still doesn't work, don't worry about sex. Ice her and do your own thing. Disneyland with the kids, get a hobby, whatever. The point is that you don't let her get her emotional / relational needs met by having you around on a "friends" / non-sexual basis and then blows you off when her needs are met. If this doesn't work, then you need to consider whether you want to remain with someone who prioritizes your needs consistently under her own.


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## Deguello (Apr 3, 2015)

Mr.Married said:


> Maybe I wasn’t clear. A rape charge isn’t what your looking for.


Rape is not something we're into,
She is my wife!.I understand what you're saying.assertive and confident is what is what will happen,with a little dominance.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I’ll share some personal insight.

We will have our 25th anniversary this fall. I have never once asked her out of the blue if she wants to have sex.

There is basically a 99.999% chance the answer will be no.

One of the biggest differences between the boys and the girls is spontaneous desire vs responsive desire.

I’m going to generalize here but women are rarely horny and in a state of arousal and desire when they are peeling potatoes or putting gas in the car or digging the carpet strands out of the roller brushes of the vacuum cleaner etc. 

Most of the normal tasks of daily life are not sexy or romantic or sexually stimulating for a woman.

Men are full of testosterone and sperm build up and so they basically are ready at any moment, place and time. 

Women have to be brought to a state of desire. 

This is where flirtation, seduction, foreplay etc come in to play.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

@Young at Heart may be able to provide some insight. I believe he and his wife are in their mid-late 60s as well (I don't remember exactly) and he was able to improve his sexual relationship with his wife.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Lila said:


> @Young at Heart may be able to provide some insight. I believe he and his wife are in their mid-late 60s as well (I don't remember exactly) and he was able to improve his sexual relationship with his wife.


While the journey my wife and I have been on has not been fun, there is no question that, in our mid-60s, we are seeing an improvement in our sex lives. The problem is that it's easy to define what's lacking- physical intimacy. But finding out why can be a journey down a rabbit hole with lots of unexpected twists and turns and neither one of you will come through unscathed. It is, I believe, the penalty for allowing things to go on that shouldn't have been allowed to go on. For mistakes that you or your partner had made ages ago. For boundaries not drawn and notions of privacy not fully understood.

So yes, things can get better. If you've got the stomach for it, don't give up.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Less talk more action works better IMO


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> Women have to be brought to a state of desire.
> 
> This is where flirtation, seduction, foreplay etc come in to play.


While I agree that since men have 75-100x more testosterone they could be horny immediate after invasive surgery. But contention basically puts the onus on the man and absolves women. Your basically saying women have no responsibility WRT to a couple’s sex life because they have responsive desire. I really think this is unfair.

Ester Perel, in her book Mating in Captivity, asks women what are they doing to turn themselves off. Just because you have responsive desire doesn’t mean you can’t be intentional about getting turned on without putting it all on the guy. 

Say your partner takes a self-esteem hit while surfing FB or Instagram before bed. She not only put herself out of the mood (by consuming media that makes her feel inadequate) but the guy STILL has to do the seduction heavy-lifting only to find out she sabotaged her libido before he even gets started.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Deguello said:


> I came home on tuesday,made sure we had nothing planned,so I said.doy ou Want to the bed room and fool around"
> The response was a giggle, roll of the eyes.I said that is a yes or. No question,still nothing. Self there is trouble here that was rejection plain and simple .on Thursday She complained about her back hurting,all I said was sorry to hear that take some advil then I went to the garage,two can play that
> Game, any thoughts,did I over react?


A thought? Several. 

Don't play games. Don't try to play a game of "tit for tat" by denying sex with your wife. Figure out how to really forgive her for the hurt she has caused you. Give her a fresh start. Learn how to make her feel loved and cherished, even if she is not giving you such feelings. Talk to her and let her know what you need. Giver her lots of feedback and love.

If you need to seek professional help such as a marriage counselor or a sex therapist.

I and my wife are in our early 70's and we usually have sex twice a week. About 10 years ago we were in a sex starved marriage. I felt I was the victim of my LD wife. I wasn't, we just weren't nice to each other and it snow-balled into a sexless marriage. A lot of assumptions were made by both of us as to what the other was doing.

The good news is that if both are committed to the marriage, it can get better, but it takes hard work and sometimes outside help.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Young at Heart said:


> The good news is that if both are committed to the marriage, it can get better, but it takes hard work and sometimes outside help.


That sounds good, but in practice you can have a situation where the husband and wife are both committed to "marriage" but not "the marriage." Each can have a different definition of what that marriage is, and be fully committed to it, within their own definition. In fact, one can be completely happy with their "marriage" and oblivious to the issues the other is having. Such "commitment" can make things worse over time, not better. Especially when individual counseling gets involved, because the IC is bound only to the person they are helping; they are actually looking at the marriage as being a source of their issues, not them being the cause. Marriage is secondary to the IC.

Then the MC is walking a tightrope of not wanting to make it appear they (the MC) are choosing sides, unless or until it becomes clear that there's one person willing to change and the other is stuck. But the "stuck" person is getting validation from his or her IC that they have every right to feel however they wish to feel.

So I would strongly encourage anyone looking to "outside help" to fully understand what that means and that the manner in which each approach it determines the outcome, more so than the therapist.

It's.... complicated.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Casual Observer said:


> That sounds good, but in practice you can have a situation where the husband and wife are both committed to "marriage" but not "the marriage." Each can have a different definition of what that marriage is, and be fully committed to it, within their own definition. In fact, one can be completely happy with their "marriage" and oblivious to the issues the other is having. Such "commitment" can make things worse over time, not better. ......
> 
> So I would strongly encourage anyone looking to "outside help" to fully understand what that means and that the manner in which each approach it determines the outcome, more so than the therapist.
> 
> It's.... complicated.


One of the things we both liked about a Gotmans weekend course was how the got us to explore what "we each" wanted our marriage to look like in 5, 10, 15, 20 years. They encouraged us to verbalize and visualize this marriage and what it would involve.

We also worked with a noted Sex Therapist, another marriage counselor and some DIYS couples therapy by reading a chapter of different well respected couple books a week and then discussing it.

From my perspective, we both needed to change how we treated and interacted with each other. Getting me to open up and change so my W got what she needed was my task. Her task was similar. Then we needed to find a compromise we could both live with. it took time and that required commitment.

I agree that having a common definition is critical to making a reconciliation work.


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