# Intelligence as an attractive quality



## southbound

I mentioned this in another thread, but I had considered starting a thread of it's own, so here goes:

I’ve noticed that almost all women on dating sites and on TAM list "intelligence" as an attractive quality in men.” Some even say they like “intelligent,” deep conversation. I’m wondering why this is worth mentioning. Do they mean they want a man who can discuss the Pythagorean theorem and meiosis in depth? I'm betting the answer to that is "no," but what do women mean when they list intelligence? Is it basically that they want a normal, mature guy? In other words, have they been around so many guys who act like they are in middle school and whose life revolves around video games that they feel it’s worth mentioning just to weed those out and get a guy who acts his age? Is it kinda like saying "I want a guy who is handy around the house just so you don't get stuck with a guy who can't fix a loose door knob?

Personally, that’s not really something I think of when I’m making a list of things I like in a woman. I’m not saying I want an imbecile, but it’s just not something I have on a list. Maybe I just think it’s a given, I don't know. I don’t think to myself, “She’s attractive, but I wonder how smart she is." Maybe it’s just a difference with people. Sometimes guys find the “dumb blonde” persona a bit cute in women. 

With the recent passing of Burt Reynolds, I also thought about how he used to be the "hunk" in the 70s that women seemed to like. He never had the persona of an intellectual, but he was normal; he wasn't dumb. He played more the "good ol' boy" character back then, and apparently he was 'the man" back in those days. So, have things changed? In general are women more attracted to the business man these days?


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## peacem

Intelligence is hard to measure. I have known men with phds who can barely tie their own shoelaces and have very poor social skills - they are single for a reason. I have a friend who is a highschool teacher and his conversation is very much the lowest common denominator (x factor and soap opera bore). I also have a male friend that is very much uneducated but is fascinating to talk to and has very good emotional intelligence and can read people well. 

Hunky men do nothing for me and they never have. I always dated the kind boy from school, bespectacled and a little shy. I think empathy is the most attractive thing in a man, and making me laugh with of course reasonable good looks.


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## EleGirl

I searched to see if there are any articles out there that tell the percentage of people who say that they are looking for an intelligent person to date. I did not find any. But I did find this. Perhaps the title of the article tells it all.

*In the End, People May Really Just Want to Date Themselves*

So what is the measure of 'intelligence' that a person is looking for? Most likely someone with an intelligence approximately the same as their own.


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## red oak

Wrong group. My apologies


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## Annabegins

You had me at meiosis... I think that most people would like someone who can hold a conversation on an equally intellectual level, and also most people believe that they, themselves, are intelligent. I think what women fail to clairify is what kind of intelligence they are looking for. Someone who is good with their hands maybe? Someone who loves to read? Someone who has a PHD? 🙂


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## john117

Generally speaking, intelligence tracks income . 

Also generally speaking, intelligence doesn't always make one great companionship material.


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## uhtred

There are a wide range of abilities that together form "intelligence", and people be good at some and bad at others.

I'm wildly guessing here, but I think when people say that they want to date someone "intelligent" they may be referring to someone interesting to talk to. For me this includes several thigns:

An ability to think more deeply about issues - whether they are political, social, historical etc. Someone who, for example, when talking about immigration is able to recognize the trade-offs and isn't so shallow thinking to believe its a trivial problem. 

Broad knowledge. For example, I was hiking in the hills of Crete with my wife and we came to some old ruined stones in the ground. Seen at a glance they were unremarkable. But she knew enough ancient history though to recognize that these were the ruins of the last settlement of the great Minoan civilization, the place where the final refugees of invasions retreated and finally died in their tiny houses, leaving the great ruined palaces behind. She turned a few stones in the ground into something wonderful and tragic.

Broad experience. Someone who knows interesting places to eat, interesting places to go, interesting things to do. Someone who takes a date to a Nepalese restaurant, not a steak house. Or goes sailing on the bay rather than to a movie. 

Technical interest. I can't imagine wanting to date a women who didn't think colliding neutron stars were cool, or that the photos of pluto were amazing. (or similar interest in some other area). 

Humor: I think you need to be intelligent to have a good sense of humor. It takes quick thinking to recognize and point out the humor in a situation.


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## 269370

There are many different types of intelligence; being knowledgeable or what is called ‘intellectual’ is very different from being street-smart. Also being intelligent in one area doesn’t mean they will be intelligent in another.

It’s really a daft thing to put this down as a requirement: either those women want to flatter and attract the guys with this requirement (because every guy thinks his intelligence is above average, which is ridiculous) or they are unintelligent themselves.
Do they perhaps believe a guy will swipe to a profile and think to himself, “you know what, I don’t think I’m intelligent enough to hook up with her”. Weird.


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## I shouldnthave

EleGirl said:


> Most likely someone with an intelligence approximately the same as their own.


This. I agree completely. Not to be a braggart, but I have an IQ that is in the upper 98th percentile. 

Am I an "intellectual"? Not really. Do I enjoy challenging discussions, thought provoking activities, and shun what I deem "mindless" entertainment (ie most TV etc) absolutely. 

My husband also happens to be right there with me when it comes to the results of a professionally administered IQ test. 

I have dated a number of men who I found to be.....hum, a bit dim witted. And the more I got to know them, or the more I was surprised by stupid things they said or believed, the less I was attracted to them. Even if physically they were hot hot hot, I can't suffer a fool. 

These days, I have certainly noticed a pattern in who I find attractive. There is a physical base line, but if they are SHARP, if they have a bright, inquisitive mind - I find that super sexy. Add a success due to their intelligence? Oh lordy. 

As they say, the brain is the biggest sex organ.


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## uhtred

Interesting choice of chart. It doesn't particularly support this case because it is really plotting two things against a third variable. Int vs income for all people would seem to provide clearer information. 



john117 said:


> Generally speaking, intelligence tracks income .
> 
> Also generally speaking, intelligence doesn't always make one great companionship material.


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## john117

Relevant reading...

https://humanvarieties.org/2016/01/31/iq-and-permanent-income-sizing-up-the-iq-paradox/

Note the income values have been transformed a bit. Read the paper


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## peacem

I think those women are just filtering out the dumdums. Anybody with reasonable conversational skills can apply I should think. Though the idea of someone admitting they are a bit thick 'so lets not go there' is quite funny.


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## Ynot

Dis is Y eye am still singel sense my devorse?


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## personofinterest

Ynot said:


> Dis is Y eye am still singel sense my devorse?


You made me laugh loudly


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## Rubix Cubed

I guess the definition of intelligence is up for interpretation by the reader. 
One of the smartest people I know (graduated cum laude from an Ivy League school) is one of the dumbest people I know by my metric. Not a lick of common sense. I'll take common sense over book smarts (which many call intelligence) any day.


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## Not

This topic reminds me of all the things I see people constantly posting on Facebook about how there are so many idiots “out there” and they have no patience for them. We’re all idiots. 

I’m guessing that stating one is attracted to intelligence means you’re honestly at a loss to describe what you’re actually looking for, it seems more like a blanket term. I think it would be more accurate to state your attracted to people who have control over their minds and emotions and can conduct themselves with poise or something similar to that. I think figuring out what intelligence is not, to you, and stating those qualities, is the way to go as far as describing what you’re actually after.


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## Deejo

At the risk of muddying the water ... let me muddy the water.

'Generally' what women are looking for, or tend to find attractive is demonstration of value.

I don't know that I would agree that in and of itself, intelligence is attractive. What you _do_ with your intelligence can absolutely be attractive.


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## Elizabeth001

HOWEVER...stupid people are usually too stupid to realize they are stupid so...making it a requirement isn’t going to help. lol 


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## personofinterest

"I don't know that I would agree that in and of itself, intelligence is attractive. What you do with your intelligence can absolutely be attractive."

Absolutely


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## Spicy

QFT. Really, you have to converse with them. Pointless to list this IMO. 



Elizabeth001 said:


> HOWEVER...stupid people are usually too stupid to realize they are stupid so...making it a requirement isn’t going to help. lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## john117

Rubix Cubed said:


> I guess the definition of intelligence is up for interpretation by the reader.
> One of the smartest people I know (graduated cum laude from an Ivy League school) is one of the dumbest people I know by my metric. Not a lick of common sense. I'll take common sense over book smarts (which many call intelligence) any day.


The ivy league degree can buy an awful amount of Common Sense...

My family has an exceptional education record and presumably the intelligence to go with it. Yet I'm the only one with any measurable street smarts. But, we survive mostly because money can buy some common sense...


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## Violet28

southbound said:


> In other words, have they been around so many guys who act like they are in middle school and whose life revolves around video games that they feel it’s worth mentioning just to weed those out and get a guy who acts his age?


Well.....yes......:lol::rofl::lol:


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## john117

personofinterest said:


> "I don't know that I would agree that in and of itself, intelligence is attractive. What you do with your intelligence can absolutely be attractive."
> 
> Absolutely


Humor me folks. How do you demonstrate intelligence to others? Furthermore, how do you demonstrate the value of intelligence?

Without showing off?

Without driving a penile envy vehicle?

Without a Rolex?


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## SpinyNorman

Do you prefer to think of yourself as intelligent, or an effing dolt? The answer tells you which ad you're rather reply to, and which ad more people will post.


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## Violet28

john117 said:


> Humor me folks. How do you demonstrate intelligence to others? Furthermore, how do you demonstrate the value of intelligence?
> 
> Without showing off?
> 
> Without driving a penile envy vehicle?
> 
> Without a Rolex?


I think more about people's ability to demonstrate sound judgment, insight, common sense, analytical ability etc. Knowledge can be demonstrated, intelligence is more about what you do with all of these abilities.


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## Dusk

Intelligence = critical thinking ability, clear sightedness about your own motivations, the ability to analyse and apply new information and the ability and inclination to think deeply about topics and express your thoughts articulately.

Also; wit 

Those are all very attractive qualities to me and I wouldn't ever be in a relationship with someone who didn't have them. Being handy and able to fix things on the other hand...I really couldn't care less. I can pay people to do that.


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## EleGirl

john117 said:


> The ivy league degree can buy an awful amount of Common Sense...
> 
> My family has an exceptional education record and presumably the intelligence to go with it. Yet I'm the only one with any measurable street smarts. But, we survive mostly because *money can buy some common sense*...


LOL... money cannot buy common sense. Common sense generally comes from life experience.

I know plenty of highly educated people who earn lots of money, who have little to no common sense. Last time I look, it's not for sale anywhere.


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## EleGirl

john117 said:


> Humor me folks. How do you demonstrate intelligence to others? Furthermore, how do you demonstrate the value of intelligence?
> 
> Without showing off?
> 
> Without driving a penile envy vehicle?
> 
> Without a Rolex?


Penile envy vehicles and Rolexes do not demonstrate intelligence. They often simply demonstrate placing high value on over priced luxury. Just about anyone with money can acquire these things. And there are plenty of not very bright people who have far too much money.


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## EleGirl

I have read that emotional intelligence is a far better indicator of success and income level than the type of intelligence measured by IQ Tests.

People who make the highest grades in school and who have the most education often end up unable to function well in a job. 

Statistically people who have a C average at school, but were involved in a lot of activities such as student government, sports, and other activities do far better financially. These people also tend to have high emotional intelligence. They are smart enough to know that book learning is not the only thing that is needed to get ahead in this world. A more well-rounded person, C or B, grade point average who is more involved in life is probably actually more intelligent in ways that account than someone with a 4.0+ gpa who only concentrates on their school work.


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## 269370

peacem said:


> I think those women are just filtering out the dumdums. Anybody with reasonable conversational skills can apply I should think. Though the idea of someone admitting they are a bit thick 'so lets not go there' is quite funny.




How does that help, if the guy puts in his profile his imaginary IQ and amazing oral skillz.
That’s why it’s better to meet in person...online dating connects people quicker (and transfers STDs quicker) but slows down the natural filtering process, nullifying the benefits of the former.


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## 269370

john117 said:


> The ivy league degree can buy an awful amount of Common Sense...
> 
> My family has an exceptional education record and presumably the intelligence to go with it. Yet I'm the only one with any measurable street smarts. But, we survive mostly because money can buy some common sense...



What street does one typically use to measure their street smarts? 


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## 269370

.


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## Laurentium

john117 said:


> Humor me folks. How do you demonstrate intelligence to others? Furthermore, how do you demonstrate the value of intelligence?
> 
> Without showing off?
> 
> Without driving a penile envy vehicle?
> 
> Without a Rolex?


I tend to think owning a Rolex demonstrates unintelligence


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## EllisRedding

IDK, to me listing "intelligence" as a quality is really nothing more than trying to prop yourself up and make yourself look better (or more "sophisticated"). If you want "intelligence" then it is because you are intelligent and need someone else intelligent to talk to. After all, why would an intelligent person talk to you if you were stupid lol.


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## 269370

Laurentium said:


> I tend to think owning a Rolex demonstrates unintelligence




But then you know exactly what time you are being stupid at.


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## john117

EleGirl said:


> LOL... money cannot buy common sense. Common sense generally comes from life experience.
> 
> I know plenty of highly educated people who earn lots of money, who have little to no common sense. Last time I look, it's not for sale anywhere.


Money can buy the results of using common sense.


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## john117

EleGirl said:


> Penile envy vehicles and Rolexes do not demonstrate intelligence. They often simply demonstrate placing high value on over priced luxury. Just about anyone with money can acquire these things. And there are plenty of not very bright people who have far too much money.


Then why do people buy those?


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## john117

inmyprime said:


> What street does one typically use to measure their street smarts?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Main Street


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## Dusk

I'd love a Rolex...sigh. Guess that makes me both basic and a bit dim


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## Andy1001

inmyprime said:


> What street does one typically use to measure their street smarts?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If you use your street smarts correctly you would be on Easy Street.


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## aine

As beauty is in the eye of the beholder so is intelligence.
I want a man who can have a conversation with some depth, not academic intelligence per se but knows what is happening in the world around him, has opinions on politics, religion, etc. 
I dislike it when men only ever talk about their work (my H is intelligent and can hold his own about almost anything in a conversation) but he loves talking about his work, which is fair enough but it gets old sometimes


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## Rowan

I don't recall ever listing intelligence as a requirement in any of my dating profiles. Mostly because, in my experience, most people think they're intelligent whether they are or not, so it's not a useful thing to list. I found talking to people to be a much more reliable way to determine if we were intellectually compatible. But, yes, a compatible level of intellectual intelligence is absolutely important to me and is something I look for. As is a compatible degree of emotional intelligence. 

I don't want to sit around discussing string theory or the wider implications of Dr. Berger's latest work on **** naledi all the time. But I do want to be able to have interesting conversations about a variety of things with my partner. I want a guy who can see the world through larger cultural, global and historical frameworks. I want someone who appreciates wit and gets my jokes. I need a guy who is reasonably well read and enjoys reading. I am much more compatible with someone who appreciates the way my own brain works and whose brain I, in turn, find interesting.


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## Ynot

I don't know. I think it some of white noise people insert into their profile. I think you might sound a little odd if your profile required someone who was mentally handicapped or a low functioning autistic.


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## PigglyWiggly

As someone with average intelligence, average intelligence meets my intelligence requirement in a mate. What I really find attractive is above average intellectual curiosity. Couple above average intelligence with above average intellectual curiosity and you become somewhat of an intellectual supermodel to me. 

Here are a few examples of those supermodels in my mind:

Naturalist David Attenborough
Classicist Mary Beard
Astrophysicist Amy Mainzer 
Professor Michael Scott
Professor Brian Cox


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## personofinterest

Ynot said:


> I don't know. I think it some of white noise people insert into their profile. I think you might sound a little odd if your profile required someone who was mentally handicapped or a low functioning autistic.


 You may be on to something there. When I hear people talk about wanting a partner who is intelligent, what most of them seem to main is… I want him to do more than watch football or burp, and I want her to do more than talk about shoes and Kardashian's lol


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## Bananapeel

Annabegins said:


> You had me at meiosis...


You should really cross over into the post-mitotic phase...it's a much more stable state to be in


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## farsidejunky

Show off...


Bananapeel said:


> You should really cross over into the post-mitotic phase...it's a much more stable state to be in


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## personofinterest

> What I really find attractive is above average intellectual curiosity.


Yes! Someone who enjoys learning new things and is not stagnant.


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## uhtred

Maybe you talk about status symbols and how when people object to them, what they are often objecting to are incorrect (false signaling?) status symbols. The is no reason for a Billionaire not to have a Ferrari and a Rolex - they are such a tiny fraction of the persons total worth that they can own them on a whim without impacting their life style. OTOH, someone who spends a years income on a car is stretching themselves very thin and is significantly impacting their standard of living in order to have this one thing. IF they are a true car enthusiast that might make sense, but if the just want a showy car, then, the come across as a show-off, and not an effective one. 

Should people care about status symbols? Clearly status is important in any complex society, so its not crazy to think that people act in ways to try to project status. I think where some people get it wrong though is that status is not a single ladder, but a complex mesh with many different types of "high status". Artists, scientists, athletes, military personnel can all have high status in completely different directions, without having large amounts of wealth. 

Maybe its a little like beauty. There are many ways to be physically attractive, but it almost always looks bad if someone tries to make themselves look like something they are not. There are many very attractive middle aged women and men, but a 50 year old who tries to look like a 20 year old just comes across as sad. 






john117 said:


> Humor me folks. How do you demonstrate intelligence to others? Furthermore, how do you demonstrate the value of intelligence?
> 
> Without showing off?
> 
> Without driving a penile envy vehicle?
> 
> Without a Rolex?


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## Ursula

I don't have that on my online profile mostly because I'd much rather have a partner who has life smarts and common sense. My XH has 2 Masters, a Doctorate and a Post-Doctorate, and while he's brilliant book-wise, life-smart-wise he's dumber than a doorknob. So, intelligence is attractive to a point. If you can rattle off equations for quantum physics, but don't know how to check plants to see if they need to be watered, or how to talk to people without bragging about yourself and your career, that's not attractive at all.


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## john117

personofinterest said:


> Yes! Someone who enjoys learning new things and is not stagnant.


Awesome. Ever tried to learn computational geometry at 59? It's a lot of fun


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## personofinterest

john117 said:


> Awesome. Ever tried to learn computational geometry at 59? It's a lot of fun


No, but I am having a root canal next week....does that count lol


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## john117

personofinterest said:


> No, but I am having a root canal next week....does that count lol


I have had 7 done. Count me as unimpressed


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## Rubix Cubed

john117 said:


> Then why do people buy those?


 Pure status symbols. Keeping up with the jones. There are better watches, better cars etc. 
I can get buying the best there is of whatever you are looking at, but generally, the best there is is not the status symbol most arrogant folks seek. It's the flashiest and best known that they seek.

As far as buying common sense or the results of it. Nope you still can't. You may be able to rent it, such as a bodyguard who has the common sense to keep your rich, arrogant ass from being killed. But you ain't buying it and you don't have the skills connected with it. All you've got is that you are temporarily still alive.


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## EleGirl

john117 said:


> Money can buy the results of using common sense.


The above proves that a high level of education and income does not prove intelligence or confer common sense. >


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## john117

EleGirl said:


> The above proves that a high level of education and income does not prove intelligence or confer common sense. >


Hardly.


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## Deejo

john117 said:


> Humor me folks. How do you demonstrate intelligence to others? Furthermore, how do you demonstrate the value of intelligence?
> 
> Without showing off?
> 
> Without driving a penile envy vehicle?
> 
> Without a Rolex?


John, more than likely, I am intersecting demonstration of intelligence, with demonstration of skill.

Being able to build a house, right down to the measurements, from a blueprint in your head certainly indicates intelligence, requires demonstrating a wide set of skills, and no doubt is going to be very attractive to nesting minded women. (I know a guy who did this)

Kid Rock comes to mind. Bob Ritchie is not a good looking dude. But he's smart, and the man can DJ, write brilliant lyrics such as "Bawitdaba da bang a dang diggy diggy diggy said up jump the boogy", play the guitar, bass, drums, piano, etc.

I know plenty of very highly intelligent engineers, who have developmental delays or setbacks particularly on the social side. They have advanced degrees, can talk programming and economic theory all day ... they may be admired in the work environment, but those qualities don't outweigh others necessary to result in making them appealing, or attractive.


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## personofinterest

I think we sometimes conflate demonstration of intelligence with demonstration of success. I think we are also biased toward what we value. A person who values "things" will naturally assume that expensive things demonstrate success. A person who is not impressed by things may not. In fact, they may judge someone with an abundance of things about which they love to talk to be shallow or materialistic.

When I think of demonstrations of intelligence, I think of skills, conversational ability, a quick wit, and interpersonal skills. The last one is tricky because a lot of people with astronomical IQs don't have the greatest interpersonal skills. Then gain, social skills are SKILLS. When, as an early adolescent, I realized just how "weird" I was, I observed and LEARNED how to be "normal". LOL


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## EllisRedding

It is pretty clear to me that the sign of intelligence these days is usually associated with one's ability to carefully select and share MEMEs ...


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## Deejo

EllisRedding said:


> It is pretty clear to me that the sign of intelligence these days is usually associated with one's ability to carefully select and share MEMEs ...


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## personofinterest

*snicker*


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## PigglyWiggly

EllisRedding said:


> It is pretty clear to me that the sign of intelligence these days is usually associated with one's ability to carefully select and share MEMEs ...


Flexin'


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## EllisRedding




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## Deejo

Ellis threw out the bait, and like lemmings we scrambled off the cliff after it.


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## PigglyWiggly

Deejo said:


> Ellis threw out the bait, and like lemmings we scrambled off the cliff after it.


Are you saying Ellis is a master baiter?


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## Deejo

PigglyWiggly said:


> Are you saying Ellis is a master baiter?


And this is what makes us more family than forum.


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## Elizabeth001

My mamma always said never love something that can’t love you back. 

She had a 7th grade education 


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## john117

Btw I'd be very concerned of any craftsman building a house out of his head... Intelligence or not. The carpenter who did the McMansion library used a CAD system, cut every piece beforehand, and assembled to perfection.


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## 269370

john117 said:


> Btw I'd be very concerned of any craftsman building a house out of his head... Intelligence or not. The carpenter who did the McMansion library used a CAD system, cut every piece beforehand, and assembled to perfection.



I would be too. But then again, you don’t have to be in a relationship with him, do you?


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## 2&out

I'll stick with being dumb and happy. Trying to be intelligent makes my butt hurt.


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## Dusk

Gardner’s theory of multiple intelligences seems to fit here. Schools/universities reward primarily Language and mathematical intelligences while ignoring the others, particularly interpersonal/intrapersonal. I would say those two are the most closely related to emotional intelligence, which has been shown to be very important in general life success. 


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## SpinyNorman

EleGirl said:


> I have read that emotional intelligence is a far better indicator of success and income level than the type of intelligence measured by IQ Tests.
> 
> People who make the highest grades in school and who have the most education often end up unable to function well in a job.
> 
> Statistically people who have a C average at school, but were involved in a lot of activities such as student government, sports, and other activities do far better financially. These people also tend to have high emotional intelligence. They are smart enough to know that book learning is not the only thing that is needed to get ahead in this world. A more well-rounded person, C or B, grade point average who is more involved in life is probably actually more intelligent in ways that account than someone with a 4.0+ gpa who only concentrates on their school work.


I think things other than GPA come into play, but the study I found states that income is positively correlated to HS GPA, i.e. C-students will on average make less than A-students.

"for a one-point increase in a person's high school GPA, average annual earnings in adulthood increased by about 12 percent for men and about 14 percent for women, the report found."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...e-today/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.5aa90deec9b9


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## DTO

This is what I was thinking. Based on my partners, it seems that having knowledge on a range of topics and being quick per se are nice to have but not the msin benefit

The real interest seemed to be practical. I got a degree and could make good money without working nights/weekends/holidays, or risking my safety. I manage my resources efficiently and have a good plan for my life. Erc.



john117 said:


> Generally speaking, intelligence tracks income


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## Mr The Other

john117 said:


> Generally speaking, intelligence tracks income .
> 
> Also generally speaking, intelligence doesn't always make one great companionship material.


When I was young, men considered me intelligent, but women did not.

Then, I got a high paying job. 

Suddenly, women considered me intelligent.

For my part, I find beautiful women more fascinating. We all have our weaknesses.


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## meson

southbound said:


> With the recent passing of Burt Reynolds, I also thought about how he used to be the "hunk" in the 70s that women seemed to like. He never had the persona of an intellectual, but he was normal; he wasn't dumb. He played more the "good ol' boy" character back then, and apparently he was 'the man" back in those days. So, have things changed? In general are women more attracted to the business man these days?


Things are always changing with respect to what makes men desirable to women. Plus there is such a wide spectrum of different combinations that women find attractive it really doesn't make sense to try to boil it down to Burt Reynolds or a handyman. To my wife the Burt Reynolds type though physically appealing is just not attractive. Likewise for my daughter and a some of her friends. My daughter is into geeks and has different tastes than my wife.

My wife values intelligence over handyman qualities. The value in seeking intelligence for her is that it correlates with the ability to reason and solve problems which is more important to her than some other qualities. But this is who she is. EleGirl is spot on with seeking out someone similar.

BTW, my wife and I have discussed the Casmir invariants of the Poincare group which if you set the dimension to 2 and the metric tensor to be unitary, the distance invariant reduces to what is known as the Pythagorean theorem. This invariant with the Minkowski metric is the basis behind special relativity.


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## Deejo

john117 said:


> Btw I'd be very concerned of any craftsman building a house out of his head... Intelligence or not. The carpenter who did the McMansion library used a CAD system, cut every piece beforehand, and assembled to perfection.


I find his claim highly suspect. But ... effective in terms of demonstrating value. Dude can build a house, and you can't do that if you're dumb. He's not a contractor mind you, he's a cop. So he has the uniform thing going for him too.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

My wife finds my intelligence highly attractive....

.... so long as I never use it to justify disagreeing with her. :nono:


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## Rubix Cubed

john117 said:


> Btw I'd be very concerned of any craftsman building a house out of his head... Intelligence or not. The carpenter who did the McMansion library used a CAD system, cut every piece beforehand, and assembled to perfection.


 Of course you would, because you can't even relate to it. You're obviously a buy it not build it type guy. God bless your little heart. Guys like you keep my bills paid, my Ariel Atom gassed up and my Movado ticking.


----------



## lucy999

southbound said:


> In general are women more attracted to the business man these days?


I've never been attracted to men in suits. I'm a blue collar girl. I work in the legal field and maybe it's because I see suits every day? And I just like the more "butch" appearance of the rough and rugged blue collar man (and in my experience, they're waaay better in bed).

When I did OLD I never listed "intelligence" as a requirement lol I figured that was a given. I weeded out the really deplorable ones by their grammar and spelling I won't lie about that.

I met my now husband on POF 6 years ago. He is very good at math and super quick with numbers. Also very knowledgeable with IT issues and politics. He's a voracious nonfiction reader. No degrees in those areas, but we have very animated and interesting discussions. I've learned alot from him without having to list "intelligence" on my profile.:grin2:


----------



## john117

Rubix Cubed said:


> Of course you would, because you can't even relate to it. You're obviously a buy it not build it type guy. God bless your little heart. Guys like you keep my bills paid, my Ariel Atom gassed up and my Movado ticking.


It's not a question of skills. It's a question of having a clue about the house building process. 

The guy who was the general contractor for my McMansion was a pharmacist. He inherited the business and I knew more about it than he did. You take your time, find the right subs, work with the architect, control costs, and above all, design quality in. 

People who can afford 6000 sq ft homes don't have the time to hang drywall, but they can do some up front thinking to save headaches down the road. 

And, I learn fast. Took me a while to understand nobody knows how to size a sump pump for a 2000 sq ft basement. My system is an overkill to some people but when we get 5 inches of rain in a day like we do once a year or two, nothing to worry about.

It's not intelligence as much as it is perseverance.


----------



## Elizabeth001

lucy999 said:


> I've never been attracted to men in suits. I'm a blue collar girl. I work in the legal field and maybe it's because I see suits every day? And I just like the more "butch" appearance of the rough and rugged blue collar man (and in my experience, they're waaay better in bed).
> 
> When I did OLD I never listed "intelligence" as a requirement lol I figured that was a given. I weeded out the really deplorable ones by their grammar and spelling I won't lie about that.
> 
> I met my now husband on POF 6 years ago. He is very good at math and super quick with numbers. Also very knowledgeable with IT issues and politics. He's a voracious nonfiction reader. No degrees in those areas, but we have very animated and interesting discussions. I've learned alot from him without having to list "intelligence" on my profile.:grin2:




Dang girl. You give me new hope!

Like x100!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Elizabeth001

john117 said:


> It's not a question of skills. It's a question of having a clue about the house building process.
> 
> The guy who was the general contractor for my McMansion was a pharmacist. He inherited the business and I knew more about it than he did. You take your time, find the right subs, work with the architect, control costs, and above all, design quality in.
> 
> People who can afford 6000 sq ft homes don't have the time to hang drywall, but they can do some up front thinking to save headaches down the road.
> 
> And, I learn fast. Took me a while to understand nobody knows how to size a sump pump for a 2000 sq ft basement. My system is an overkill to some people but when we get 5 inches of rain in a day like we do once a year or two, nothing to worry about.
> 
> It's not intelligence as much as it is perseverance.




I really like you John but I would never date you. That’s prolly a good thing for both of us, eh? lol 


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## 2&out

IMHO a Ferrari is about the most intelligent thing a person can buy/have. The thrill and ability to modulate the glorious sound of the motor is second only to a strong female orgasm. And it's close - the Ferrari makes $ while the other does the reverse.


----------



## 2&out

Has been interesting reading. While a certain level of intelligence is expected and needed, it is not a high priority for this mid 50's older guy. Sex appeal, a good attitude, optimism about people, life, future, and a willingness to explore/do things are more important to me.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

2&out said:


> IMHO a Ferrari is about the most intelligent thing a person can buy/have. The thrill and ability to modulate the sound of the motor is second only to a strong female orgasm. And it's close - the Ferrari makes $ while the other does the reverse.


I don't think so. I have a hard time seeing the intelligence in buying a car that costs as much as a house and doesn't even have room to haul a bike.

Oh, and a for that awesome motor... it only really purrs when the car gets up to at least 200kph (120mph), and speed limits are almost always a small fraction of that, so you can never even use the car as it was designed to be used. The very definition of a waste.... and a really bad investment as the value of the car drops 100K by the time you dive it off the lot and into your own garage. 

But yeah, it does look sexy as hell just sitting there even though you can never drive it the way it needs to be driven... high cost/low reliability/high maintenance/unwilling to perform as intended but looks super hot. Hmmmm.... sounds like a lot of gals out there.


----------



## Faithful Wife

I love good conversation, so yeah, when there is lack of intelligence seems there is lack of good (for me) conversation. However going strictly off of a profile is almost impossible to use as an intelligence gauge.

The most intelligent guy I ever dated (best conversation also), I met him on ok Cupid and on his profile where it says “what are you looking for” he literally just wrote “hmmm” and nothing else.


----------



## southbound

It appears from the responses that not every woman needs a professor, but if I had read what everyone says women do want in this thread when I was a kid in the 70s, I would have though it was written by a bunch of high class big- shots. So, I guess it’s safe to assume that while there is variety in what women want, the average Joe that was around in the 70s who goes to work, comes in and watches Gunsmoke is no longer a catch.


----------



## DTO

RMY,

That's an interesting (and amusing) take on the situation. But I think you're missing the point. Those guys who buy cars at that level spend less of their resources on them than the Average Joe does on an average Ford or Honda. That those guys can buy them so effortlessly IS the point.

We all have some sort of frivolous pursuits / hobbies that we do just to do them. Some people simply can afford to throw more cash at those pursuits than we can.



Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> I don't think so. I have a hard time seeing the intelligence in buying a car that costs as much as a house and doesn't even have room to haul a bike.
> 
> Oh, and a for that awesome motor... it only really purrs when the car gets up to at least 200kph (120mph), and speed limits are almost always a small fraction of that, so you can never even use the car as it was designed to be used. The very definition of a waste.... and a really bad investment as the value of the car drops 100K by the time you dive it off the lot and into your own garage.
> 
> But yeah, it does look sexy as hell just sitting there even though you can never drive it the way it needs to be driven... high cost/low reliability/high maintenance/unwilling to perform as intended but looks super hot. Hmmmm.... sounds like a lot of gals out there.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

john117 said:


> It's not a question of skills. It's a question of having a clue about the house building process.
> 
> The guy who was the general contractor for my McMansion was a pharmacist. He inherited the business and I knew more about it than he did. You take your time, find the right subs, work with the architect, control costs, and above all, design quality in.
> 
> People who can afford 6000 sq ft homes don't have the time to hang drywall, but they can do some up front thinking to save headaches down the road.
> 
> And, I learn fast. Took me a while to understand nobody knows how to size a sump pump for a 2000 sq ft basement. My system is an overkill to some people but when we get 5 inches of rain in a day like we do once a year or two, nothing to worry about.
> 
> It's not intelligence as much as it is perseverance.


 I've built several 18-20,000 sq.ft. McMansions and don't take this the wrong way, but guys like you are a subs worst nightmare, and likely never even realize it. If the subs get get double for change orders they might only dislike you. I'm on a house for an "architect" right now that is an abomination by his choice and design, and has been an absolute nightmare for that outcome, but he'll love it and really think he has something special. I'm too embarrassed of it to even put it in my portfolio. Top quality work but who cares when the style is all bastardized and tasteless.

e.t.a. If I was you I think I would have looked for another General Contractor that maybe was a GC.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

2&out said:


> IMHO a Ferrari is about the most intelligent thing a person can buy/have. The thrill and ability to modulate the glorious sound of the motor is second only to a strong female orgasm. And it's close - the Ferrari makes $ while the other does the reverse.


 They're also awesome for roasting marshmallows over.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

EllisRedding said:


> It is pretty clear to me that the sign of intelligence these days is usually associated with one's ability to carefully select and share MEMEs ...





Deejo said:


>



I'm not sure why this thread continues after the above post. @Deejo definitely won for the day, likely the year.


----------



## PigglyWiggly

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> My wife finds my intelligence highly attractive....
> 
> .... so long as I never use it to justify disagreeing with her. :nono:


Ha! In that situation, my wife would say, "You just lawyered the ****z out of that one!".


----------



## john117

Elizabeth001 said:


> I really like you John but I would never date you. That’s prolly a good thing for both of us, eh? lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I wouldn't date myself either 

At my age I'm probably going to be a great companion but for anything deeper I'm like my cat. Too damned smart for my own good. 

The bad thing about intelligence is that you can't turn it off and enjoy the moment. There's always something to wake up and find the fly in the ointment. 

I'm a good provider, an awesome father, a great companion, but for a lady in my target demographic all this is derigeur. That is, after I identify such a female unicorn.

Bottom line - if you see a Mini Cooper JCW parked at Jungle Jim's next year, it's probably me


----------



## john117

Rubix Cubed said:


> I've built several 18-20,000 sq.ft. McMansions and don't take this the wrong way, but guys like you are a subs worst nightmare, and likely never even realize it. If the subs get get double for change orders they might only dislike you. I'm on a house for an "architect" right now that is an abomination by his choice and design, and has been an absolute nightmare for that outcome, but he'll love it and really think he has something special. I'm too embarrassed of it to even put it in my portfolio. Top quality work but who cares when the style is all bastardized and tasteless.
> 
> e.t.a. If I was you I think I would have looked for another General Contractor that maybe was a GC.


Unrelated thread jack... I actually managed more of the process than Bob the pharmacist. The architect I used was an exceptional guy and being in the business of product design myself I had a few ideas. 

Only screw up. Two subs both showing up at the same time to do the same job . Minor, but we still laugh about it. The rest of the McMansion came out perfect, as in, 17 years and every design parameter was met. After we built it, Bob the pharmacist was quick to adapt many of my improvisations and alternative sources. 

My older daughter is an architect btw and a PhD student in same. Her "fiance" is a practicing architect as well. I ran into a lot of WTF looks from the subs when I asked or spec'd strange things. At the end we saved about $100k by careful choices, and built a near LEED Gold house in the process (missed gold by 1 point). According to the electric company we're 40% more efficient than the average energy efficient homes in our city.

There's nothing better than seeing how my choices in 1999 and 2000 have held up in 2018. We passed inspection with flying colors. On to closing...

Again, none of this is intelligence. It's planning.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

john117 said:


> At the end we saved about $100k by careful choices, and built a ...


The architect I'm dealing with is going the opposite direction to the tune of about 30% and already 3x longer to build than it should have taken. I would decline anyone that even slightly resembled this scenario in the future.


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## 269370

john117 said:


> There's always something to wake up and find the fly in the ointment.



Is that intelligence? I thought that’s just a sh1tty outlook on life. I suffer from it too.



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## personofinterest

" The bad thing about intelligence is that you can't turn it off and enjoy the moment. There's always something to wake up and find the fly in the ointment. "

This is ridiculous. Choosing to be negative is not a sign of high intellect. This has more to do with your personality than it does any IQ test or advanced degree.


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## john117

inmyprime said:


> Is that intelligence? I thought that’s just a sh1tty outlook on life. I suffer from it too.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Perception and intelligence. Less, ehem, endowed individuals tend to overlook things or perhaps fail to grasp significant but subtle pieces...


----------



## personofinterest

john117 said:


> inmyprime said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is that intelligence? I thought that’s just a sh1tty outlook on life. I suffer from it too.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> Perception and intelligence. Less, ehem, endowed individuals tend to overlook things or perhaps fail to grasp significant but subtle pieces...
Click to expand...

 Wow… the ego knows no bounds does it? I don't overlook subtleties. I'm just in control of my own faculties and the way I choose to think. You don't have to ruin positivity by focusing on the subtleties and less you choose to. So no… it's not because you are more in


----------



## PigglyWiggly

personofinterest said:


> Wow… the ego knows no bounds does it? I don't overlook subtleties. I'm just in control of my own faculties and the way I choose to think. You don't have to ruin positivity by focusing on the subtleties and less you choose to. So no… it's not because you are more in


I absolutely agree with you. Is that because I have less intelligence than John? I would certainly concede that I do but the limited intelligence that I do have has been able to understand: “If a problem is fixable, if a situation is such that you can do something about it, then there is no need to worry. If it's not fixable, then there is no help in worrying. There is no benefit in worrying whatsoever.”

― The Dalai Lama


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## 269370

john117 said:


> Perception and intelligence. Less, ehem, endowed individuals tend to overlook things or perhaps fail to grasp significant but subtle pieces...



I wondered about that. Is that not just a glass half empty/full attitudes d being risk averse? Are there no intelligent people that have a positive outlook?
I was worried about that...that the peak of intelligence is to eventually succumb to antinatalism 


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## personofinterest

Yes there are. Positivity has more to do with personality bent and the choices we make about our thought processes than anything else.


----------



## 269370

personofinterest said:


> Yes there are. Positivity has more to do with personality bent and the choices we make about our thought processes than anything else.




Does it mean I’m bent the wrong way then? I was worried about that too..


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----------



## personofinterest

inmyprime said:


> Does it mean I’m bent the wrong way then? I was worried about that too..
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't think it is a right/wrong thing. Some people tend to focus on the negative, some the positive. I think we need both for balance. The only issue I had was with the implication that if you can find the negative in everything, it somehow makes you intellectually superior.


----------



## PigglyWiggly

inmyprime said:


> Does it mean I’m bent the wrong way then? I was worried about that too..
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


LMAO Son, you ain't right


----------



## SunCMars

Congratulations....

You have brought the Ghost out of the *worm tunneled woodwork, the Clockwork not Orange, rather Red.

*A true statement. The latest Tale do witness.

I risk much by posting.

..............................................................................................................................

On intelligence, or lack of it.

Intelligence is the greatest gift given by our Creator.
It is the biggest curse to those given key inspiration, but not KNOWING the lock(s) that it opens.
Being almost smart is frustrating to those that desire closure to troubling things, thoughts and happenings.

That said, I would rather be ofttimes thirsty, then never so.
Hunger for knowledge is a driving force, ever attempting to avoid the deadheading stone wall.

Not knowing can be….
A bug in one’s mind getting smashed up against the glass ceiling of an incalculable speeding Universe.

The thought, the answer at the tip of ones now tingling, broken antennae.
And so, forever lost to this once curious bi-pedal beetle. 
To that curious one, another hundred smart bugs to follow. 

The answers are always illusive, as the answers are not necessary to live, are really counter to living singularly, are counter-intuitive.

Knowing All is to meld with All, to disappear into the Mass of Space, no longer Singular.

No, tis’ being one with the Universe, with God.

True Intelligence is losing yourself, knowing your place In THE SCHEME OF THINGS.
Placing yourself, therein, losing all perspective of self.



SunCMars- obligated to speak by some odd, not odd to me, ethereal impulse. We are linked by our Fate, our Fate is often......just thoughts executed. Executed, not random code.


----------



## john117

personofinterest said:


> Wow… the ego knows no bounds does it? I don't overlook subtleties. I'm just in control of my own faculties and the way I choose to think. You don't have to ruin positivity by focusing on the subtleties and less you choose to. So no… it's not because you are more in


A lot of those thought processes happen at a bit too low of a level to be "turned on or off"... 

You definitely can choose to act in particular ways but it's like choosing to ignore 95F heat. With the right conditioning it's possible, but it creates its own issues by adding to the overall mental workload.

Positivity is at a much higher level as you have to integrate all kinds of low level signals, filter out others, etc. It's more cerebral if you want to look at it this way.

Negativity is more reptilian in nature. Oftentimes overcoming positivity not in any measurable or quantifiable way but just because. We see it all the time in product choices .


----------



## RandomDude

southbound said:


> I mentioned this in another thread, but I had considered starting a thread of it's own, so here goes:
> 
> I’ve noticed that almost all women on dating sites and on TAM list "intelligence" as an attractive quality in men.” Some even say they like “intelligent,” deep conversation. I’m wondering why this is worth mentioning. Do they mean they want a man who can discuss the Pythagorean theorem and meiosis in depth? I'm betting the answer to that is "no," but what do women mean when they list intelligence? Is it basically that they want a normal, mature guy? In other words, have they been around so many guys who act like they are in middle school and whose life revolves around video games that they feel it’s worth mentioning just to weed those out and get a guy who acts his age? Is it kinda like saying "I want a guy who is handy around the house just so you don't get stuck with a guy who can't fix a loose door knob?
> 
> Personally, that’s not really something I think of when I’m making a list of things I like in a woman. I’m not saying I want an imbecile, but it’s just not something I have on a list. Maybe I just think it’s a given, I don't know. I don’t think to myself, “She’s attractive, but I wonder how smart she is." Maybe it’s just a difference with people. Sometimes guys find the “dumb blonde” persona a bit cute in women.
> 
> With the recent passing of Burt Reynolds, I also thought about how he used to be the "hunk" in the 70s that women seemed to like. He never had the persona of an intellectual, but he was normal; he wasn't dumb. He played more the "good ol' boy" character back then, and apparently he was 'the man" back in those days. So, have things changed? In general are women more attracted to the business man these days?


Well, I wouldn't say I'm completely intelligent, I do tend to lean towards retardness more than often.

However, I like a woman who can hold a conversation with me, doesn't have to be nuclear physics, but about life, relationships, career, all that jazz. A relationship is companionship to me, so what use do I have of a companion who I can't share my thoughts and experiences and opinions with, to debate with me, to challenge me, to offer her thoughts and experiences and opinions as well - many of which could help both of our lives and to plan for our future.

But to each their own...


----------



## john117

PigglyWiggly said:


> I absolutely agree with you. Is that because I have less intelligence than John? I would certainly concede that I do but the limited intelligence that I do have has been able to understand: “If a problem is fixable, if a situation is such that you can do something about it, then there is no need to worry. If it's not fixable, then there is no help in worrying. There is no benefit in worrying whatsoever.”
> 
> ― The Dalai Lama


With all due respect to his Holiness, .

If all I do is wear a robe and meditate all day, the world is indeed black and white. The rest of us live in a grayscale world and have to deal with influences such as mortgage payments, layoffs, and the like, without the benefit of sitting out a choice or response.


----------



## john117

personofinterest said:


> I don't think it is a right/wrong thing. Some people tend to focus on the negative, some the positive. I think we need both for balance. The only issue I had was with the implication that if you can find the negative in everything, it somehow makes you intellectually superior.


Hardly. It makes you more observant... which is related to attention, perception, and a whole bunch of other mental processes and not necessarily intelligence.


----------



## 269370

john117 said:


> With all due respect to his Holiness, .
> 
> If all I do is wear a robe and meditate all day, the world is indeed black and white. The rest of us live in a grayscale world and have to deal with influences such as mortgage payments, layoffs, and the like, without the benefit of sitting out a choice or response.




Maybe that’s what we should be doing. The rest is just a freaking distraction and procrastinating the inevitable. (Apologies, my hyper-intelligent bentness is protruding again...).


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----------



## PigglyWiggly

john117 said:


> With all due respect to his Holiness, .
> 
> If all I do is wear a robe and meditate all day, the world is indeed black and white. The rest of us live in a grayscale world and have to deal with influences such as mortgage payments, layoffs, and the like, without the benefit of sitting out a choice or response.


That still doesn't make him wrong. I employ this way of thinking in my own life. The weight of a mortgage, layoffs and the like are just as heavy to those of us less endowed.


----------



## john117

personofinterest said:


> Yes there are. Positivity has more to do with personality bent and the choices we make about our thought processes than anything else.


Or selectively parsing signals...

A lot of it is cultural and / or socioeconomic in nature. If you grew up well off you can do your Julie Andrews impersonation pretty well and be oh so positive. If you had to work hard for each morsel of food in your life and every splinter of every rung of the corporate ladder, then you're a lot more "reserved" in terms of positive or negative outlook. 

It's not like I haven't spent decades looking at this stuff or something...


----------



## 3Xnocharm

lucy999 said:


> I've never been attracted to men in suits. I'm a blue collar girl. I work in the legal field and maybe it's because I see suits every day? And I just like the more "butch" appearance of the rough and rugged blue collar man (and in my experience, they're waaay better in bed).


Same here! :grin2:



lucy999 said:


> When I did OLD I never listed "intelligence" as a requirement lol I figured that was a given.* I weeded out the really deplorable ones by their grammar and spelling I won't lie about that.
> *


Again, SAME...


----------



## john117

PigglyWiggly said:


> That still doesn't make him wrong. I employ this way of thinking in my own life. The weight of a mortgage, layoffs and the like are just as heavy to those of us less endowed.


It does not make him wrong. He has his universe and I have mine. Within his universe he rocks. But can he understand the reality of a single parent with a sick child and no backup care option to get to work?


----------



## PigglyWiggly

john117 said:


> It does not make him wrong. He has his universe and I have mine. Within his universe he rocks. But can he understand the reality of a single parent with a sick child and no backup care option to get to work?


I am not in the position to speak to what he can or cannot understand. I imagine he has seen much worse suffering and would suspect that he could understand that reality but I cannot know for certain.


----------



## john117

PigglyWiggly said:


> I am not in the position to speak to what he can or cannot understand. I imagine he has seen much worse suffering and would suspect that he could understand that reality but I cannot know for certain.


No doubt. But as Stalin said, one million deaths... vs one death... 

Understanding is easy when you don't have to act on it.


----------



## personofinterest

john117 said:


> Or selectively parsing signals...
> 
> A lot of it is cultural and / or socioeconomic in nature. If you grew up well off you can do your Julie Andrews impersonation pretty well and be oh so positive. If you had to work hard for each morsel of food in your life and every splinter of every rung of the corporate ladder, then you're a lot more "reserved" in terms of positive or negative outlook.
> 
> It's not like I haven't spent decades looking at this stuff or something...


This is an EXCELLENT point. I can usually maintain perspective no matter the stress. BUT, if the stress is money-related, I tend to go lizard brain. And that absolutely comes from 2 decades in a marriage where employment and electricity were uncertain more than a few times. Couple that with having no say in it a lot of times, and the fight-or-flight lack of control inward response is pretty dramatic.

However, as I have more reliable "data" of security in my current marriage, I notice this is lessening. Just like I can actually voice things that might be controversial to my current hubby without having to lay all sorts of groundwork not to be dismissed.

We definitely LEARN a lot of our responses.


----------



## PigglyWiggly

john117 said:


> No doubt. But as Stalin said, one million deaths... vs one death...
> 
> Understanding is easy when you don't have to act on it.


So what does worrying accomplish for you that makes it worthwhile when you only have approximately 30 years (time being our most precious resource in my mind) of life left on this planet?


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## john117

To an intelligent person, worrying is a sign of things to be alert for and possibly mitigate. To a Chicken Little, worrying is a state of mind in itself.


----------



## personofinterest

john117 said:


> To an intelligent person, worrying is a sign of things to be alert for and possibly mitigate. To a Chicken Little, worrying is a state of mind in itself.


It is possible that what you call worry I call awareness.

Every time I go for a checkup, I am AWARE that it is very statistically possible that more cancer or new cancer will be found.

Worry would be if I gave that pervasive and emotionally distressing thought knowing I really have no control over it. Focusing on how I COULD very likely have cancer again wouldn't make me more intelligent. It just means I have chosen to rob myself of the good moments.


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## john117

Correct. Awareness is different than worrying. Unfortunately most people don't see much difference...


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## personofinterest

The only reason I am acutely aware of the difference is because I am a recovering worrier lol


----------



## Ynot

One sign of real intelligence is keeping your overinflated ego in check.


----------



## personofinterest

Ynot said:


> One sign of real intelligence is keeping your overinflated ego in check.


 This can definitely be true period of course there is also the fact that what some people might view as ego others might view as a form of self protection. And the fact that sometimes we use the label of arrogance to dismiss someone else's point of view. I know I have done that before period being selfaware is probably one of the greatest intellectual pursuits someone can take on.


----------



## Ynot

personofinterest said:


> This can definitely be true period of course there is also the fact that what some people might view as ego others might view as a form of self protection. And the fact that sometimes we use the label of arrogance to dismiss someone else's point of view. I know I have done that before period being selfaware is probably one of the greatest intellectual pursuits someone can take on.


I agree. But this wasn't so much a philosophical statement as much as a reaction to a certain poster who loves to express how special, unique and intelligent they are.


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## john117

Ynot said:


> One sign of real intelligence is keeping your overinflated ego in check.


That's me in real life...


----------



## john117

Ynot said:


> I agree. But this wasn't so much a philosophical statement as much as a reaction to a certain poster who loves to express how special, unique and intelligent they are.


It ain't bragging if you....


----------



## 269370

john117 said:


> That's me in real life...



You even manage to show off by not showing off 


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## 269370

This must be you car 













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## john117

Nobody flinches when epic tales of sex, dating, or marital successetc are offered on TAM. 

Fortunes come in different packages.


----------



## 2&out

That Cooper limo is awesome ! LOL ! Probably cost Ferrari $ to build.

Costs as much as a house. So ? I fail to understand comparison. I am proud to say and be one of "those" mankids who can say I've made it - my garage is bigger (and more valuable) than my house. And I love my house. Which is also to many not what they would want/have or consider "intelligent" to have/buy. Over 100 years old, rather high maintenance, not especially energy efficient. Mahogany 14" baseboards, in walls carved pocket doors, high ceilings, hot water radiator heat, no central AC. Warm, inviting, unique.

Like many things in life - to each their own - and what they/each consider is intelligent, varies. Intelligent is doing what makes you personally content and happy - not some judgement by others. JMHO.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

2&out said:


> That Cooper limo is awesome ! LOL ! Probably cost Ferrari $ to build.
> 
> Costs as much as a house. So ? I fail to understand comparison. I am proud to say and be one of "those" mankids who can say I've made it - my garage is bigger (and more valuable) than my house. And I love my house. Which is also to many not what they would want/have or consider "intelligent" to have/buy. Over 100 years old, rather high maintenance, not especially energy efficient. Mahogany 14" baseboards, in walls carved pocket doors, high ceilings, hot water radiator heat, no central AC. Warm, inviting, unique.
> 
> Like many things in life - to each their own - and what they/each consider is intelligent, varies. *Intelligent is doing what makes you personally content and happy* - not some judgement by others. JMHO.


I was speaking for most people. If you _can _afford a Ferrari without it creating other financial stresses in your life, then by all means go for it and enjoy. Even if you can't ever legally get it past second gear. 

But as to the bolded, many have found their undoing, financially or as we see so often in relationships on this site, doing what "makes you personally content and happy." After all, that's exactly what every wayward has always thought he/she was doing.... and we're hard pressed to find any examples of straying having been an intelligent move.


----------



## red oak

In my observations it usually meant one of 3 things.

1. You had to be funny/quick witted on comebacks. In other words an entertainer type who had to keep them from getting bored or they would move on.

2. Agree with the latest political ideologies, and be able to discuss the in depth differences of middle, left, right etc. as though intellectuals, unless paid for it, would be quibbling over such nonsense. 

3. Some one looking to move up.

Seemingly the diction of the intelligent women precluded listing intelligence as a qualifier.


----------



## personofinterest

red oak said:


> In my observations it usually meant one of 3 things.
> 
> 1. You had to be funny/quick witted on comebacks. In other words an entertainer type who had to keep them from getting bored or they would move on.
> 
> 2. Agree with the latest political ideologies, and be able to discuss the in depth differences of middle, left, right etc. as though intellectuals, unless paid for it, would be quibbling over such nonsense.
> 
> 3. Some one looking to move up.
> 
> Seemingly the diction of the intelligent women precluded listing intelligence as a qualifier.


Who hurt you?


----------



## PigglyWiggly

Everyone you meet knows something you don't.


----------



## personofinterest

PigglyWiggly said:


> Everyone you meet knows something you don't.


I love this


----------



## Blondilocks

john117 said:


> Nobody flinches when epic tales of sex, dating, or marital successetc are offered on TAM.
> 
> Fortunes come in different packages.


Everyone on the planet has some kind of gift. Yours is intelligence and you're brave enough not to hide it under a bushel. By being open about it, people know where you're coming from.

IMO, you and Ikaika are the most intelligent posters on this site.

Have to admit, though; I'll be damned glad when the McMansion sells as I'm quite 'McMansioned' out.:grin2:


----------



## john117

Blondilocks said:


> Have to admit, though; I'll be damned glad when the McMansion sells as I'm quite 'McMansioned' out.:grin2:


Me too. We close Dec 1... The likely outcome will be that s-wife will roll her share of the equity in a high-rise condo... Me, I'll pocket it. I'm done with hone ownership.


----------



## red oak

personofinterest said:


> Who hurt you?


Stating fact. Some of those from category were honest by saying they didn't like being bored. Or they wanted excitement. Just read between the lines. 

As stated those who were of above average intelligence had no need to state intelligence as a prerequisite.

Besides, intelligence is objective, but in said case of an opinion someone has of another, it becomes subjective based upon personal opinion and bias of the author making the statement a non sequitor.


----------



## 269370

Blondilocks said:


> IMO, you and Ikaika are the most intelligent posters on this site.



Hey! I wear glasses too! (Sometimes )



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## Girl_power

Intelligence is a must for me when dating. It’s a deal breaker for sure. If there is a hot guy that can’t make good conversation about Worldly events or whatever then be automatically becomes ugly to me. If a guy isn’t that attractive but he is intelligent and I can have a good deep conversation with him then he becomes way more attractive and sexy to me. Not all women are like this Bc not all women are smart themselves or into culture and world events. 

To me... it’s about being well rounded and well read and interested in things. This guy I recently went on a date with is so smart and well rounded we had great conversations and he was like omg finally a women I can talk to and not have to dumb myself down to keep the conversation going, and I was like yes! Same with me! We were both so happy to meet another intelligent person.


----------



## Girl_power

Hunky men are not my thing. I am not attractive to that look at all.


----------



## PigglyWiggly

It seems we've established that people generally like to pair like/like when it comes to academic intelligence. Where I see a huge disparity in many relationships is with emotional intelligence. I don't feel that it's given the attention it deserves in mate selection. What do you think?

e·mo·tion·al in·tel·li·gence
noun
the capacity to be aware of, control, and express one's emotions, and to handle interpersonal relationships judiciously and empathetically.


----------



## 269370

PigglyWiggly said:


> It seems we've established that people generally like to pair like/like when it comes to academic intelligence. Where I see a huge disparity in many relationships is with emotional intelligence. I don't feel that it's given the attention it deserves in mate selection. What do you think?
> 
> 
> 
> e·mo·tion·al in·tel·li·gence
> 
> noun
> 
> the capacity to be aware of, control, and express one's emotions, and to handle interpersonal relationships judiciously and empathetically.




Do you call that ‘intelligence’ though? Is it not ‘emotional maturity’?
Since ‘intelligence’ seems to imply stuff to do with brain, it seems like an oxymoron.


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## PigglyWiggly

inmyprime said:


> Do you call that ‘intelligence’ though? Is it not ‘emotional maturity’?
> Since ‘intelligence’ seems to imply stuff to do with brain, it seems like an oxymoron.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If you google "emotional intelligence", you will get links to many articles with that term. 

google the difference between the two. I think you will enjoy the quick read.


----------



## Girl_power

PigglyWiggly said:


> It seems we've established that people generally like to pair like/like when it comes to academic intelligence. Where I see a huge disparity in many relationships is with emotional intelligence. I don't feel that it's given the attention it deserves in mate selection. What do you think?
> 
> 
> 
> e·mo·tion·al in·tel·li·gence
> 
> noun
> 
> the capacity to be aware of, control, and express one's emotions, and to handle interpersonal relationships judiciously and empathetically.




To me emotional intelligence should be a given in any relationship.


----------



## 269370

Girl_power said:


> Hunky men are not my thing. I am not attractive to that look at all.




What if the are hunky AND stupid? Shouldn’t two negatives not make a positive? 


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## Dusk

Also, you have to be smart to be funny. And I never would have married someone who couldn’t match me wit for wit. 


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## arbitrator

*Intelligence might be good, but for the vast majority of women, monetary wealth is the prime commodity!

Sadly, their sheer insecurity for riches seems to trump everything else, including love, intelligence or empathy!*


----------



## Girl_power

arbitrator said:


> *Intelligence might be good, but for the vast majority of women, monetary wealth is the prime commodity!
> 
> Sadly, their sheer insecurity for riches seems to trump everything else, including love, intelligence or empathy!*




I disagree. We do like money but there is nothing like a real connection and respect for the other person.


----------



## Elizabeth001

arbitrator said:


> *Intelligence might be good, but for the vast majority of women, monetary wealth is the prime commodity!
> 
> Sadly, their sheer insecurity for riches seems to trump everything else, including love, intelligence or empathy!*




Please speak for the woman you know and don’t throw us all in one pot. Money does not impress me. I have my own. It’s not much but then I don’t need much 


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## arbitrator

Elizabeth001 said:


> Please speak for the woman you know and don’t throw us all in one pot. Money does not impress me. I have my own. It’s not much but then I don’t need much
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





Girl_power said:


> I disagree. We do like money but there is nothing like a real connection and respect for the other person.


*Ladies: Regarding money, you, along with a plethora of other women, are simply not to be found anywhere in "the vast majority!" And I respect you both for that!

That vast majority, unfortunately, is!*


----------



## Elizabeth001

arbitrator said:


> *Ladies: Regarding money, you, along with a plethora of other women, are simply not to be found anywhere in "the vast majority!" And I respect you both for that!
> 
> That vast majority, unfortunately, is!*




Arb...there was a thread somewhere from a poster who divorced a crazy lady and then immediately found himself with a crazy girlfriend. He was asking “are there any “normal” women left?”. I told him there were but it didn’t seem apparent that he was attracted to them. I offer you the same advice pertaining to monetary women. 


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## 269370

Girl_power said:


> I disagree. We do like money but there is nothing like a real connection and respect for the other person.



How much does that cost? 


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## PigglyWiggly

More women are getting degrees than men if I remember the latest numbers correctly. With women having their own money, I imagine that a man with only a fat wallet to offer is not going to have the same success with as many women in the future.


----------



## DTO

Nope. At least not in the sense that you portray it.

Women prefer men who have enough to take care of themselves and their responsibilities. After that, it doesn't matter too much to most women. And even liking that you can care for yourself doesn't mean she wants what you have.

Yes, there are exceptions, of course.



arbitrator said:


> *Intelligence might be good, but for the vast majority of women, monetary wealth is the prime commodity!
> 
> Sadly, their sheer insecurity for riches seems to trump everything else, including love, intelligence or empathy!*


----------



## personofinterest

DTO said:


> Nope. At least not in the sense that you portray it.
> 
> Women prefer men who have enough to take care of themselves and their responsibilities. After that, it doesn't matter too much to most women. And even liking that you can care for yourself doesn't mean she wants what you have.
> 
> Yes, there are exceptions, of course.
> 
> 
> 
> arbitrator said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Intelligence might be good, but for the vast majority of women, monetary wealth is the prime commodity!
> 
> Sadly, their sheer insecurity for riches seems to trump everything else, including love, intelligence or empathy!*
Click to expand...

Thank you DTO!

I have had all the generalizations about women I can stand!


----------



## john117

Dusk said:


> Also, you have to be smart to be funny. And I never would have married someone who couldn’t match me wit for wit.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Another of my mistakes. While my soon to be departing wife is extremely intelligent academia wise, she ain't funny. By contrast, I'm extremely funny (immature too but who's counting ).


----------



## Uselessmale

This may be another subject, but my stbxw has always told me that I wasn’t the “good looking fun date “ kind but I was the marrying kind. I asked what that meant and she said that I was th kind of man that would be a good provider, and father, intelligent and that I would be the one that always had a job and would have a college degree. I have been told repeatedly that being the “marrying kind” instead of the “good looking fun date kind” is a complement. What do you ladies and men think about this?

Have always been told that i’m Above average intelligent, (I know this highly educated, but can still mechanic and do blue collar work). but also that I’m cute, not good looking, she’s the only one that would find me attractive, and that I couldn’t get a date in a *****house(cleaned that up). ANd a multitude of other statements about my looks. 

Just reading this thread makes me feel like some lady out there might really find me attractive even if I’m just butt ugly.


----------



## arbitrator

Elizabeth001 said:


> Arb...there was a thread somewhere from a poster who divorced a crazy lady and then immediately found himself with a crazy girlfriend. He was asking “are there any “normal” women left?”. I told him there were but it didn’t seem apparent that he was attracted to them. I offer you the same advice pertaining to monetary women.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


*I'm not attracted to them any longer for obvious reasons, in fact I can't recall that I ever was ~ I've just come to a point in my life where I don't consciously trust any of them! Or for that matter, even want to!

And that's present and future tense!*


----------



## Blondilocks

arbitrator said:


> *I'm not attracted to them any longer for obvious reasons, in fact I can't recall that I ever was ~ I've just come to a point in my life where I don't consciously trust any of them! Or for that matter, even want to!
> 
> And that's present and future tense!*


Have you been ghosted again?


----------



## Blondilocks

john117 said:


> Another of my mistakes. While my soon to be departing wife is extremely intelligent academia wise, she ain't funny. By contrast, I'm extremely funny *(immature too but who's counting ).*




Me. The immature guys on this site are multiplying like rabbits. Yeah @inmyprime, I'm talking about you.:wink2:


----------



## arbitrator

Blondilocks said:


> Have you been ghosted again?


*Not really ~ I'm just not as proactive! 

And even then, I'm far more discriminating in trying to seek the right woman out!*


----------



## john117

Blondilocks said:


> [/B]
> 
> Me. The immature guys on this site are multiplying like rabbits. Yeah @inmyprime, I'm talking about you.:wink2:


Multiplying? I fear not


----------



## uhtred

I don't think so. 
Most people want some amount of money - living under a bridge in a cardboard box isn't very romantic - but for a lot there is some level of wealth that lets them have the lifestyle they enjoy, 

Most of the people I know have not optimized the amount of money that they have. I've turned down promotions that would have paid more for the same amount of work because I enjoy what I am doing now and I have enough money to comfortably enjoy the sort of life I like.

There are certainly some women (and me) who will do anything they can to get as much money as possible, but certainly not all, and I suspect not the majority. 

One of the very fortunate things in my marriage is that we are compatible in our desired life style and have never felt serious money pressure. 





arbitrator said:


> *Intelligence might be good, but for the vast majority of women, monetary wealth is the prime commodity!
> 
> Sadly, their sheer insecurity for riches seems to trump everything else, including love, intelligence or empathy!*


----------



## 269370

Blondilocks said:


> [/B]
> 
> 
> 
> Me. The immature guys on this site are multiplying like rabbits. Yeah @inmyprime, I'm talking about you.:wink2:




Well you are not helping it: the more attention we get, the more ridonculous we become 
Anyway, coming back to my very large intelligence...So yeah. It’s so large. And so intelligent.


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## Elizabeth001

You know...I really want to think that Arb is a wonderful catch and a great guy but this whole turn on this post is just making my blood boil. 

It is so clear to me that @arbitraitor is still in the grieving process of his last relationship. This is why I (as one of those non monetary great catches) would avoid him at all costs. 

And it’s not fair for you to bring your garbage along and dump it on anyone’s head arb. Like you just did with all these lovely ladies of TAM. 

I’m by far a religious woman, but perhaps you should pray on that? I mean...do not pray for your god to deliver you a woman from heaven. Pray to your god to give you the strength to be a better man who lets the past go and is ready to give with an open heart?

Meh...or just meditate on that thought...because it’s all the same. Positive reinforcement. It even works with dogs. Go figure. 


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----------



## 269370

Elizabeth001 said:


> You know...I really want to think that Arb is a wonderful catch and a great guy but this whole turn on this post is just making my blood boil.
> 
> It is so clear to me that @arbitraitor is still in the grieving process of his last relationship. This is why I (as one of those non monetary great catches) would avoid him at all costs.
> 
> And it’s not fair for you to bring your garbage along and dump it on anyone’s head arb. Like you just did with all these lovely ladies of TAM.
> 
> I’m by far a religious woman, but perhaps you should pray on that? I mean...do not pray for your god to deliver you a woman from heaven. Pray to your god to give you the strength to be a better man who lets the past go and is ready to give with an open heart?
> 
> Meh...or just meditate on that thought...because it’s all the same. Positive reinforcement. It even works with dogs. Go figure.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




It’s a tricky one. Maybe some men have been burnt badly before with so called golddiggers and are prejudiced. I have no idea. The thing is I have always spoilt my wife; took her and family to stay to the most expensive places and bought them anything they wanted..But I don’t know if suddenly all the money disappeared how (and if) she would change...In a way she is accustomed to the life style and doesn’t give it much thought. OTOH she never was demanding in that way but if we had to take kids out of private schools maybe things would change. I don’t want to contemplate that thought. My prerogative was always to just get enough money so that nobody has to think about it. Having come from poverty I still think about it though (old habits die hard).


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----------



## 3Xnocharm

Uselessmale said:


> This may be another subject, but my stbxw has always told me that I wasn’t the “good looking fun date “ kind but I was the marrying kind. I asked what that meant and she said that I was th kind of man that would be a good provider, and father, intelligent and that I would be the one that always had a job and would have a college degree. * I have been told repeatedly that being the “marrying kind” instead of the “good looking fun date kind” is a complement.* What do you ladies and men think about this?


I think the way that this was said is derogatory. Telling someone that you love the fact that they are a solid, dependable, generous person instead of an irresponsible party boy/frat boy is complimentary... the way she stated it makes you out to be an unattractive drag! Who does that to their partner??



Uselessmale said:


> Have always been told that i’m Above average intelligent, (I know this highly educated, but can still mechanic and do blue collar work). * but also that I’m cute, not good looking, she’s the only one that would find me attractive, and that I couldn’t get a date in a *****house(cleaned that up). ANd a multitude of other statements about my looks.*
> 
> Just reading this thread makes me feel like some lady out there might really find me attractive even if I’m just butt ugly.


This is just mean. And that lady is out there, and I seriously doubt you are butt ugly! :wink2:


----------



## Adelais

Girl_power said:


> Intelligence is a must for me when dating. It’s a deal breaker for sure. If there is a hot guy that can’t make good conversation about Worldly events or whatever then be automatically becomes ugly to me. If a guy isn’t that attractive but he is intelligent and I can have a good deep conversation with him then he becomes way more attractive and sexy to me. Not all women are like this Bc not all women are smart themselves or into culture and world events.
> 
> To me... it’s about being well rounded and well read and interested in things. *This guy I recently went on a date with is so smart and well rounded we had great conversations and he was like omg finally a women I can talk to and not have to dumb myself down to keep the conversation going, and I was like yes! Same with me! We were both so happy to meet another intelligent person.*


Is there going to be a second date???!!!


----------



## personofinterest

Elizabeth001 said:


> You know...I really want to think that Arb is a wonderful catch and a great guy but this whole turn on this post is just making my blood boil.
> 
> It is so clear to me that @arbitraitor is still in the grieving process of his last relationship. This is why I (as one of those non monetary great catches) would avoid him at all costs.
> 
> And it’s not fair for you to bring your garbage along and dump it on anyone’s head arb. Like you just did with all these lovely ladies of TAM.
> 
> I’m by far a religious woman, but perhaps you should pray on that? I mean...do not pray for your god to deliver you a woman from heaven. Pray to your god to give you the strength to be a better man who lets the past go and is ready to give with an open heart?
> 
> Meh...or just meditate on that thought...because it’s all the same. Positive reinforcement. It even works with dogs. Go figure.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Leaving arb out of the equation - this is exactly what I was talking about in my bias thread. That type of generalization about "all men" or "all women" that some will deny they even make. There's no way it doesn't come out in the their primary relationships.


----------



## Blondilocks

In looking for a mate, I much prefer MrsHolland's approach:


"I'm a simple woman:

He had to be wealthy, exceptional in bed, very good looking, tall, into football, intelligent, killer SOH, appreciator of good wine, loyal, good morals, not religious, successful white collar career."

She knew how to keep it simple. lol


----------



## EllisRedding

Blondilocks said:


> In looking for a mate, I much prefer MrsHolland's approach:
> 
> 
> "I'm a simple woman:
> 
> He had to be wealthy, exceptional in bed, very good looking, tall, into football, intelligent, killer SOH, appreciator of good wine, loyal, good morals, not religious, successful white collar career."
> 
> She knew how to keep it simple. lol


----------



## Elizabeth001

Blondilocks said:


> In looking for a mate, I much prefer MrsHolland's approach:
> 
> 
> "I'm a simple woman:
> 
> He had to be wealthy, exceptional in bed, very good looking, tall, into football, intelligent, killer SOH, appreciator of good wine, loyal, good morals, not religious, successful white collar career."
> 
> She knew how to keep it simple. lol




And this is where we split. 

I can’t think of any other thing that turns me on more than a tool belt and rough hands. 

RAWR


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----------



## 269370

Blondilocks said:


> In looking for a mate, I much prefer MrsHolland's approach:
> 
> 
> "I'm a simple woman:
> 
> He had to be wealthy, exceptional in bed, very good looking, tall, into football, intelligent, killer SOH, appreciator of good wine, loyal, good morals, not religious, successful white collar career."
> 
> She knew how to keep it simple. lol




Dammit. I’m all of those things except into football  ⚽
Maybe that’s what’s missing in my marriage.
I find cheering for sports obnoxious and unnecessary. Though I do lots of sport myself.


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----------



## 269370

Elizabeth001 said:


> And this is where we split.
> 
> I can’t think of any other thing that turns me on more than a tool belt and rough hands.
> 
> RAWR
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I can do tools  too. But my hands are not rough  Dammit. Should one also need to have beer breath? 


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----------



## EllisRedding

It still comes down to one's definition of intelligence which can vary greatly as seen here. Aside from those who list Intelligence as a quality they must have simply b/c they think its props themselves up, it would seem more about finding someone who has similar interests as yourself. If someone cannot speak "intelligently" about a topic that interests you, does that make them unintelligent?


----------



## Blondilocks

inmyprime said:


> I can do tools  too. But my hands are not rough  Dammit. Should one also need to have beer breath?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No. Wine breath, silly.


----------



## lucy999

Uselessmale said:


> This may be another subject, but my stbxw has always told me that I wasn’t the “good looking fun date “ kind but I was the marrying kind. I asked what that meant and she said that I was th kind of man that would be a good provider, and father, intelligent and that I would be the one that always had a job and would have a college degree. I have been told repeatedly that being the “marrying kind” instead of the “good looking fun date kind” is a complement. What do you ladies and men think about this?
> 
> Have always been told that i’m Above average intelligent, (I know this highly educated, but can still mechanic and do blue collar work). but also that I’m cute, not good looking, she’s the only one that would find me attractive, and that I couldn’t get a date in a *****house(cleaned that up). ANd a multitude of other statements about my looks.
> 
> Just reading this thread makes me feel like some lady out there might really find me attractive even if I’m just butt ugly.


What do I think? I think it's a good thing your wife is a soon to be ex. I also think you should change your name. Useless Male? Damn. She really did a number on you.


----------



## lucy999

Elizabeth001 said:


> And this is where we split.
> 
> I can’t think of any other thing that turns me on more than a tool belt and rough hands.
> 
> RAWR
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


GrrrrrrYaaasss sister!!!


----------



## Dusk

Blondilocks said:


> In looking for a mate, I much prefer MrsHolland's approach:
> 
> 
> "I'm a simple woman:
> 
> He had to be wealthy, exceptional in bed, very good looking, tall, into football, intelligent, killer SOH, appreciator of good wine, loyal, good morals, not religious, successful white collar career."
> 
> She knew how to keep it simple. lol




My husband makes me laugh, gives me ****, always keeps me just a little off balance while being 100% supportive, loyal and trustworthy. Plus he smells great and works out. That’s why he can still make me melt after more than 20 years. 


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## Elizabeth001

Blondilocks said:


> No. Wine breath, silly.




Dammit woman. I had a nap and when I woke up, you beat me to it! 


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----------



## southbound

Elizabeth001 said:


> arbitrator said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Intelligence might be good, but for the vast majority of women, monetary wealth is the prime commodity!
> 
> Sadly, their sheer insecurity for riches seems to trump everything else, including love, intelligence or empathy!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please speak for the woman you know and don’t throw us all in one pot. Money does not impress me. I have my own. It’s not much but then I don’t need much <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/smilies/wink.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Wink" ></a>
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I have to with arb for my experience. I don’t believe it means that every woman is looking for a millionaire, but I’ve never met a woman who didn’t like some nice things of some nature in modern times. My grandmother may have been happy with a good man who put food on the table and a roof over her head that didn’t leak, but I’ve noticed it takes a little more these days. If a guy is the type who is satisfied with “adequate,” women aren’t usually forming a line at his door.


----------



## 269370

lucy999 said:


> GrrrrrrYaaasss sister!!!



Are all of you wimmins related on this website? Everyone seems to have a sister. 


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----------



## Dusk

southbound said:


> I have to with arb for my experience. I don’t believe it means that every woman is looking for a millionaire, but I’ve never met a woman who didn’t like some nice things of some nature in modern times. My grandmother may have been happy with a good man who put food on the table and a roof over her head that didn’t leak, but I’ve noticed it takes a little more these days. If a guy is the type who is satisfied with “adequate,” women aren’t usually forming a line at his door.




But I can put food on my own table and fix my own roof. So yeah, a man needs to add more value than that, otherwise what’s the point? 

It doesn’t have to be financial though. My husband is lots of fun to be around and my life is enhanced by our relationship in every way. We’re a team and the world is easier if you’ve got someone on your side. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## john117

Blondilocks said:


> In looking for a mate, I much prefer MrsHolland's approach:
> 
> 
> "I'm a simple woman:
> 
> He had to be wealthy, exceptional in bed, very good looking, tall, into football, intelligent, killer SOH, appreciator of good wine, loyal, good morals, not religious, successful white collar career."
> 
> She knew how to keep it simple. lol


And if he wasn't the last one, all the others go out the window...


----------



## arbitrator

uhtred said:


> I don't think so.
> Most people want some amount of money - living under a bridge in a cardboard box isn't very romantic - but for a lot there is some level of wealth that lets them have the lifestyle they enjoy,
> 
> Most of the people I know have not optimized the amount of money that they have. I've turned down promotions that would have paid more for the same amount of work because I enjoy what I am doing now and I have enough money to comfortably enjoy the sort of life I like.
> 
> There are certainly some women (and me) who will do anything they can to get as much money as possible, but certainly not all, and I suspect not the majority.
> 
> One of the very fortunate things in my marriage is that we are compatible in our desired life style and have never felt serious money pressure.


*My RSXW not only wanted her millions, she wanted every cent of my paltry "dowry" as well!

Spending mine first, and then fastidiously hoarding hers!!*


----------



## Blondilocks

arbitrator said:


> *My RSXW not only wanted her millions, she wanted every cent of my paltry "dowry" as well!
> 
> Spending mine first, and then fastidiously hoarding hers!!*


Would it be a fair assessment to say that when you quit your job and took a 7 year vacation from earning a living that your "paltry dowry" was used to support you and your two sons?

I know you are bitter about finding yourself in your current circumstances; but, you need to find a way to put this in your past and live your life in a manner that will provide you with a measure of happiness and contentment. You really don't have that many more years on this earth.


----------



## 269370

.


----------



## lucy999

southbound said:


> I have to with arb for my experience. I don’t believe it means that every woman is looking for a millionaire, but I’ve never met a woman who didn’t like some nice things of some nature in modern times. My grandmother may have been happy with a good man who put food on the table and a roof over her head that didn’t leak, but I’ve noticed it takes a little more these days. If a guy is the type who is satisfied with “adequate,” women aren’t usually forming a line at his door.


I've seen this said by men so many times. I don't disbelieve you. But This just does not compute with me. Now let me say I'm not in the same high income tax bracket like alot of you here. I've always earned my own money and cannot fathom expecting leaning on a man for financial gain. If my husband and I split this very minute, I'd be fine. If I want something I get it for it myself. If I can't afford it, sucks to be me and I do without. 

That said, I'm not in the trophy wife category but I and others consider myself attractive. And I've never had any complaints or issues attracting an attractive man. I can walk the walk and talk the talk but I would find it exhausting and disingenuous.


----------



## uhtred

Sigh, you are so unreasonable, I don't like football....:wink2:




Blondilocks said:


> In looking for a mate, I much prefer MrsHolland's approach:
> 
> 
> "I'm a simple woman:
> 
> 
> He had to be wealthy, exceptional in bed, very good looking, tall, into football, intelligent, killer SOH, appreciator of good wine, loyal, good morals, not religious, successful white collar career."
> 
> She knew how to keep it simple. lol


----------



## uhtred

I think its important to separate wanting *some* money and wanting as much wealth as possible. 

I think a lot of people (probably most) want enough money to live in the fashion that they consider comfortable (which varies person to person), but that doesn't mean that they are attracted to extreme wealth.


----------



## southbound

Dusk said:


> southbound said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have to with arb for my experience. I don’t believe it means that every woman is looking for a millionaire, but I’ve never met a woman who didn’t like some nice things of some nature in modern times. My grandmother may have been happy with a good man who put food on the table and a roof over her head that didn’t leak, but I’ve noticed it takes a little more these days. If a guy is the type who is satisfied with “adequate,” women aren’t usually forming a line at his door.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But I can put food on my own table and fix my own roof. So yeah, a man needs to add more value than that, otherwise what’s the point?
> 
> It doesn’t have to be financial though. My husband is lots of fun to be around and my life is enhanced by our relationship in every way. We’re a team and the world is easier if you’ve got someone on your side.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

As a guy, I’m not looking for a woman to bring anything to a relationship except the fact that I click with her, I like and eventually love her, and I just connect with her. I guess I always thought that was what a relationship was about. 

Personally, I can do any kind of chore I need to, for example. Everything from putting on a roof to cooking my supper. So, I don’t think that puts me in a position where regardless of what a woman can do, she doesn’t really bring anything to the relationship. I couldn’t care less about that. I couldn’t care less what her job is either. She can be a lawyer or a cashier at Wal Mart for all i care. I just care about whether we have a connection. I guess since I feel that way, I somehow think that is how women feel, but I’ve come to realize it’s not.


----------



## Faithful Wife

southbound said:


> As a guy, I’m not looking for a woman to bring anything to a relationship except the fact that I click with her, I like and eventually love her, and I just connect with her. I guess I always thought that was what a relationship was about.
> 
> Personally, I can do any kind of chore I need to, for example. Everything from putting on a roof to cooking my supper. So, I don’t think that puts me in a position where regardless of what a woman can do, she doesn’t really bring anything to the relationship. I couldn’t care less about that. I couldn’t care less what her job is either. She can be a lawyer or a cashier at Wal Mart for all i care. I just care about whether we have a connection. I guess since I feel that way, I somehow think that is how women feel, but I’ve come to realize it’s not.


I get your point and I believe you, but would you honestly consider dating/merging lives with a woman who was say, a bar tender at a strip club? What about a woman who works from home, as a pot distributor? How about a fitness instructor at an all male club? What if she edits porn for a living? What if she is a ticket taker at a raunchy horse track? What if she is a professional gambler? What if she is a dog breeder and lives with 45 kennels in a small house? You are saying it really wouldn’t matter to you but I’m guessing there are parameters to this.

It’s not always about money. A man’s career matters to me for many reasons. There are lifestyles that go along with a career. In the bigger picture it is more about lifestyle to me. A rich man who has what is to me an abhorrent lifestyle is not attractive. A poor man most likely also doesn’t have a lifestyle I can get down with. It is not that a man is supposed to provide me with a lifestyle, but if the lifestyle he leads doesn’t mesh with mine, then there’s no match. The not meshing part could be for many reasons. Again it’s not always about money.

When you say you don’t expect her to bring anything except the click with you...to me the raw chemistry type of click is one thing. But for lifestyles to click much more than chemistry is involved.


----------



## personofinterest

Faithful wife, I suspect your post is exactly correct. Most of the time people who say they don't care what a partner does for a living, it's basically one of those self righteous sounding stretches. Most men would not want to date a working porne star or someone who cooks meth in the basement. Let's get real


----------



## southbound

Faithful Wife said:


> southbound said:
> 
> 
> 
> As a guy, I’m not looking for a woman to bring anything to a relationship except the fact that I click with her, I like and eventually love her, and I just connect with her. I guess I always thought that was what a relationship was about.
> 
> Personally, I can do any kind of chore I need to, for example. Everything from putting on a roof to cooking my supper. So, I don’t think that puts me in a position where regardless of what a woman can do, she doesn’t really bring anything to the relationship. I couldn’t care less about that. I couldn’t care less what her job is either. She can be a lawyer or a cashier at Wal Mart for all i care. I just care about whether we have a connection. I guess since I feel that way, I somehow think that is how women feel, but I’ve come to realize it’s not.
> 
> 
> 
> I get your point and I believe you, but would you honestly consider dating/merging lives with a woman who was say, a bar tender at a strip club? What about a woman who works from home, as a pot distributor? How about a fitness instructor at an all male club? What if she edits porn for a living? What if she is a ticket taker at a raunchy horse track? What if she is a professional gambler? What if she is a dog breeder and lives with 45 kennels in a small house? You are saying it really wouldn’t matter to you but I’m guessing there are parameters to this..
Click to expand...

Sure. The things you mentioned are more in the morals category I suppose. No, I wouldn’t want a drug dealer for a mate. When I said I didn’t care what she did for a living, I was thinking in terms of money. I live in a rural area, so that probably affects how our mind thinks along those lines. We don’t have bars and strip clubs, so my mind didn’t go in that direction. 

I just happen to know some people who came from similar backgrounds, maybe attend the same events, and have the same values, but perhaps the guy is less concerned about money and stuff; maybe he works blue collar; therefore, the woman who considers herself further up the ladder isn’t I retested simply because if that. 

I guess living in a rural area, it’s more difficult to distinguish classes on the surface. Everybody kinda runs in the same circles. Everybody eats at the same restaurants, go to the same churches, etc. But when it comes to dating, that is when some people think others aren’t good enough for them.


----------



## 269370

I thought the conversation was about money not ‘lifestyles’.
What lifestyle exactly are we talking about?
Going out to restaurants? Travelling? (Things that involve money?) is there a lifestyle that money CAN’T buy?

Let’s ask the question a different way: would you (a woman) date/marry a poor guy (he doesn’t need to be cooking meth but who works in a coffee shop or gives surfing lessons and earns minimum wage)? It will be interesting to see how many women answer yes to this question vs how many men would answer yes to the question if the situation was reversed.

To portray that there is a perfect symmetry in this respect between the genders (and use ‘lifestyle’ as an excuse) is dishonest.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Andy1001

personofinterest said:


> Faithful wife, I suspect your post is exactly correct. Most of the time people who say they don't care what a partner does for a living, it's basically one of those self righteous sounding stretches. Most men would not want to date a working porne star or someone who cooks meth in the basement. Let's get real


When I was employed I once had to travel from Stockholm to Dubai very urgently.My employer had a private jet and he sent it for me.
While I was in the lounge at Arlanda airport a nosy official asked me what my job was to justify a private jet.I told him that I was a musician and when he made more enquiries I told him I played piano in a brothel.


----------



## Andy1001

inmyprime said:


> I thought the conversation was about money not ‘lifestyles’.
> What lifestyle exactly are we talking about?
> Going out to restaurants? Travelling? (Things that involve money?) is there a lifestyle that money CAN’T buy?
> 
> Let’s ask the question a different way: would you (a woman) date/marry a poor guy (he doesn’t need to be cooking meth but who works in a coffee shop or gives surfing lessons and earns minimum wage)? It will be interesting to see how many women answer yes to this question vs how many men would answer yes to the question if the situation was reversed.
> 
> To portray that there is a perfect symmetry in this respect between the genders (and use ‘lifestyle’ as an excuse) is dishonest.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That’s a very good question @inmyprime.
I got married last week to a woman who works in a gym.
Part time.


----------



## Not

inmyprime said:


> I thought the conversation was about money not ‘lifestyles’.
> What lifestyle exactly are we talking about?
> Going out to restaurants? Travelling? (Things that involve money?) is there a lifestyle that money CAN’T buy?
> 
> Let’s ask the question a different way: would you (a woman) date/marry a poor guy (he doesn’t need to be cooking meth but who works in a coffee shop or gives surfing lessons and earns minimum wage)? It will be interesting to see how many women answer yes to this question vs how many men would answer yes to the question if the situation was reversed.
> 
> To portray that there is a perfect symmetry in this respect between the genders (and use ‘lifestyle’ as an excuse) is dishonest.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don’t think it would bother me to date a poor guy as long as he’s making enough to support his chosen lifestyle. If he’s happy where he is who am I to say it’s wrong but that begs the question of wether he’s really living that way because it genuinely makes him happy or are there other underlying issues involved? If there are no underlying issues and he’s a great guy then I’d be interested in getting to know him better. 

I guess I view that kind of lifestyle choice as no different than choosing to be religious or vegan or really into fitness or wanting to live in a commune or out in the wilds of Alaska. I think a lot of times our choices are a really good reflection of our true personalities and I would see that guy as someone who’s not interested in living in the rat race the rest of us live in, like maybe he’s someone with a quieter or more mellow personality who truly enjoys just living simply, someone who truly just doesn’t need a lot of material things to be happy.


----------



## 269370

Andy1001 said:


> That’s a very good question @inmyprime.
> 
> I got married last week to a woman who works in a gym.
> 
> Part time.



That you own I gather? Congrats btw!
Where’s the honeymoon gonna be?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 269370

Not said:


> I don’t think it would bother me to date a poor guy as long as he’s making enough to support his chosen lifestyle. If he’s happy where he is who am I to say it’s wrong but that begs the question of wether he’s really living that way because it genuinely makes him happy or are there other underlying issues involved? If there are no underlying issues and he’s a great guy then I’d be interested in getting to know him better.
> 
> I guess I view that kind of lifestyle choice as no different than choosing to be religious or vegan or really into fitness or wanting to live in a commune or out in the wilds of Alaska. I think a lot of times our choices are a really good reflection of our true personalities and I would see that guy as someone who’s not interested in living in the rat race the rest of us live in, like maybe he’s someone with a quieter or more mellow personality who truly enjoys just living simply, someone who truly just doesn’t need a lot of material things to be happy.



Yes of course, completely understandable. But once you plan for a family, will your choice parameters not change?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Andy1001

inmyprime said:


> That you own I gather? Congrats btw!
> Where’s the honeymoon gonna be?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah I own the gym,my wife used to own it.
We had a week in Scotland for our honeymoon but my soon to be stepson has school on Monday so we are heading home as I type.
Thanks for the good wishes.


----------



## Not

inmyprime said:


> Yes of course, completely understandable. But once you plan for a family, will your choice parameters not change?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



If I was younger, wanted kids and was looking for that probably but not every woman wants kids and the whole family dealio. So it could work for some women but not others.


----------



## john117

"It’s not always about money. A man’s career matters to me for many reasons. There are lifestyles that go along with a career. In the bigger picture it is more about lifestyle to me. A rich man who has what is to me an abhorrent lifestyle is not attractive. A poor man most likely also doesn’t have a lifestyle I can get down with."

Lifestyle is highly correlated with income.... There are exceptions (a guy who makes about what I do at work and lives in a vinyl siding house that's falling apart with 2nd hand furniture in his 40s)...


----------



## Faithful Wife

southbound said:


> Sure. The things you mentioned are more in the morals category I suppose. No, I wouldn’t want a drug dealer for a mate. When I said I didn’t care what she did for a living, I was thinking in terms of money. I live in a rural area, so that probably affects how our mind thinks along those lines. We don’t have bars and strip clubs, so my mind didn’t go in that direction.
> 
> I just happen to know some people who came from similar backgrounds, maybe attend the same events, and have the same values, but perhaps the guy is less concerned about money and stuff; maybe he works blue collar; therefore, the woman who considers herself further up the ladder isn’t I retested simply because if that.
> 
> I guess living in a rural area, it’s more difficult to distinguish classes on the surface. Everybody kinda runs in the same circles. Everybody eats at the same restaurants, go to the same churches, etc. But when it comes to dating, that is when some people think others aren’t good enough for them.


Yes I’m sure your location makes a difference in what the average person is looking for. If you date in a bigger city, then your dating pool is obviously people who choose to live in the same city. To live where I do requires a certain amount of wealth/income. 

I regularly see men’s profiles in my area stating that they require a woman who is financially secure, and sometimes even more specific things like “no bad credit or past bankruptcies”.

There are also many who require intelligence. They may word it like “need stimulating conversation about non People magazine related topics”.

Of course this is also different in different age groups. Younger people are more concerned with the immediacy of starting families, and older people are more concerned with protecting their assets and having a fun, carefree experience.


----------



## Adelais

john117 said:


> "It’s not always about money. A man’s career matters to me for many reasons. There are lifestyles that go along with a career. In the bigger picture it is more about lifestyle to me. A rich man who has what is to me an abhorrent lifestyle is not attractive. A poor man most likely also doesn’t have a lifestyle I can get down with."
> 
> Lifestyle is highly correlated with income.... There are exceptions (a guy who makes about what I do at work and lives in a vinyl siding house that's falling apart with 2nd hand furniture in his 40s)...


And then there is Warren Buffet.






and






A man I can respect. A modest man who is worth billions.


----------



## john117

The above modest folk own many different houses and such.... Under the same logic, I still own the apartment I grew up in ye olde country, so I pass the modesty test . I also own half the dacha in the village where I spent my formative years...


----------



## Dusk

Income and being good with money was a definite bonus when I married my husband. I always think of it as mainly luck as I fell in love with him when we were 18 and that kind of thing was really not on my radar. 

He wouldn’t have married me if I wasn’t reasonably intelligent though. And for him that means being able to talk and analyse things in an interesting way as well as having good critical thinking skills and the ability to question and think creatively. 

I’m not great with money, I’ll admit. But I’m amenable to instruction and I have a killer rack so. 


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## Rubix Cubed

john117 said:


> The above modest folk own many different houses and such.... Under the same logic, I still own the apartment I grew up in ye olde country, so* I pass the modesty test* . I also own half the dacha in the village where I spent my formative years...


 Is that sarcasm?


----------



## Adelais

john117 said:


> The above modest folk own many different houses and such.... Under the same logic, I still own the apartment I grew up in ye olde country, so I pass the modesty test . I also own half the dacha in the village where I spent my formative years...


Gosh....I have only heard him talking about his possessions when someone has actually asked him about it. So his and my idea of modesty is not quite the same as yours :wink2:


----------



## arbitrator

Andy1001 said:


> When I was employed I once had to travel from Stockholm to Dubai very urgently.My employer had a private jet and he sent it for me.
> While I was in the lounge at Arlanda airport a nosy official asked me what my job was to justify a private jet.I told him that I was a musician and when he made more enquiries I told him I played piano in a brothel.


*Make no mistake about it: A good cathouse piano player is definitely hard to find!*


----------



## uhtred

I don't think its just rural areas. There are some sub-cultures where people's wealth is obvious, but others where there is no really way you could tell without asking.



southbound said:


> snip
> 
> I guess living in a rural area, it’s more difficult to distinguish classes on the surface. Everybody kinda runs in the same circles. Everybody eats at the same restaurants, go to the same churches, etc. But when it comes to dating, that is when some people think others aren’t good enough for them.


----------



## uhtred

There are lifestyles that money can't buy. You can't buy your way to being a rock star, or high ranking military officer, federal judge, famous scientist, famous actor, mountain climber, sports hero, etc. 

You can buy the stuff that those people have, but you can't buy the lifestyle. 

You can pay beautiful women to pretend to desire you, but you can't pay them to want you the way some women want rock stars.





inmyprime said:


> I thought the conversation was about money not ‘lifestyles’.
> What lifestyle exactly are we talking about?
> Going out to restaurants? Travelling? (Things that involve money?) is there a lifestyle that money CAN’T buy?
> 
> Let’s ask the question a different way: would you (a woman) date/marry a poor guy (he doesn’t need to be cooking meth but who works in a coffee shop or gives surfing lessons and earns minimum wage)? It will be interesting to see how many women answer yes to this question vs how many men would answer yes to the question if the situation was reversed.
> 
> To portray that there is a perfect symmetry in this respect between the genders (and use ‘lifestyle’ as an excuse) is dishonest.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## uhtred

Some of this may not be about the money but about what a lack of money says about a person. A adult who doesn't have their financial situation under control may have other issues. 



Faithful Wife said:


> Yes I’m sure your location makes a difference in what the average person is looking for. If you date in a bigger city, then your dating pool is obviously people who choose to live in the same city. To live where I do requires a certain amount of wealth/income.
> 
> I regularly see men’s profiles in my area stating that they require a woman who is financially secure, and sometimes even more specific things like “no bad credit or past bankruptcies”.
> 
> There are also many who require intelligence. They may word it like “need stimulating conversation about non People magazine related topics”.
> 
> Of course this is also different in different age groups. Younger people are more concerned with the immediacy of starting families, and older people are more concerned with protecting their assets and having a fun, carefree experience.


----------



## Blondilocks

john117 said:


> The above modest folk own many different houses and such.... Under the same logic, I still own the apartment I grew up in ye olde country, so I pass the modesty test . I also own half the dacha in the village where I spent my formative years...


Last month, Buffet finally sold his Laguna Beach home for $7.5 million. He had been asking $11 million. He had bought it in '71 for $150,000.

What is interesting about Buffet is that his wife picked out his mistress. After 25 years of marriage, Mrs. Buffett moved to San Francisco and the mistress moved into the family home. That's too civilized for me.


----------



## FalCod

I'm very grateful that intelligence is a quality that a lot of women find attractive. Way back in my dating years, all I really had to offer was a sense of humor, kindness, and intelligence. I was short, small-framed, and nerdy. I was not attractive, not athletic, not financially well off. Despite that, I still dated regularly and had girlfriends. I was no Casanova, but I never lacked for female friends or dates. 

I think women appreciated my intelligence (not a super-genius but definitely on the smarter end of the spectrum) for several reasons. It made me interesting. Despite my relative poverty then, it presaged high potential earnings later. I definitely think that a lot of women see intelligence as a positive attribute.


----------



## 269370

uhtred said:


> There are lifestyles that money can't buy. You can't buy your way to being a rock star, or high ranking military officer, federal judge, famous scientist, famous actor, mountain climber, sports hero, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> You can buy the stuff that those people have, but you can't buy the lifestyle.
> 
> 
> 
> You can pay beautiful women to pretend to desire you, but you can't pay them to want you the way some women want rock stars.




Well you can become friends with any of those people of you have money and it’s virtually the same thing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Andy1001

Blondilocks said:


> Last month, Buffet finally sold his Laguna Beach home for $7.5 million. He had been asking $11 million. He had bought it in '71 for $150,000.
> 
> What is interesting about Buffet is that his wife picked out his mistress. After 25 years of marriage, Mrs. Buffett moved to San Francisco and the mistress moved into the family home. That's too civilized for me.


Don’t forget that Buffet’s company Berkshire Hathaway owns Clayton homes,the company that builds more manufactured houses than anyone else in the US.
They have their own mortgage company called Vanderbilt mortgage,which is the country’s biggest lender for manufactured houses,and also their own insurance company called Homefirst agency to insure said houses.
At around three hundred thousand loans on their books,technically Buffet owns a lot more houses than people think.


----------



## 269370

Blondilocks said:


> Last month, Buffet finally sold his Laguna Beach home for $7.5 million. He had been asking $11 million. He had bought it in '71 for $150,000.
> 
> 
> 
> What is interesting about Buffet is that his wife picked out his mistress. After 25 years of marriage, Mrs. Buffett moved to San Francisco and the mistress moved into the family home. That's too civilized for me.




Yes that mistress thing always seemed very odd to me...(I watched a documentary once). She might a be a (considerate) walk away wife or maybe found someone less boring? (He’s only interested in ‘bargains’ and banjo which might get old after a while...


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----------



## Blondilocks

inmyprime said:


> Yes that mistress thing always seemed very odd to me...(I watched a documentary once). She might a be a (considerate) walk away wife or maybe found someone less boring? (He’s only interested in ‘bargains’ and *banjo *which might get old after a while...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Don't go spreading rumors - it's a ukulele.> Don't forget he loves playing bridge. Supposedly, they sent greeting cards with all 3 names on them.:scratchhead:


----------



## Blondilocks

john117 said:


> The above modest folk own many different houses and such.... Under the same logic, I still own the apartment I grew up in ye olde country, so I pass the modesty test . I also own half the dacha in the village where I spent my formative years...


You realize that you do have a tendency to let loose the green-eyed monster in some members, don't you? :grin2: You're doing a service - you're allowing them to let loose on a forum versus in real life where it wouldn't be received quite as well.

Have you thought about selling your shares in the apartment and the dacha and buying a yurt? Very fashionable and somewhat portable.


----------



## SunCMars

Blondilocks said:


> Don't go spreading rumors - it's a ukulele.> Don't forget he loves playing bridge. Supposedly, they sent greeting cards with all 3 names on them.:scratchhead:


His bridge was one that went far, not too far. A lucky man he is.

It just shows that money can buy happiness, hell, he has enough money to corner the market on it.

He cannot buy every women; he does not need to.

There are billions of them in the candy store.
Women of all stripes and of all colors.

All of them need to be fed, to be dressed, to be undressed, to be stroked.

Kings have always had their harems, their ladies-in-waiting.


Women were given open/shut eyes for these two reasons.

1) To look at men, to look them up and down, carefully.

2) To close them when they see one ogre up close, too close for comfort.
These women close their eyes to reality, just for a few minutes.
At this closure, they dream of big houses, big diamonds, and big ****s on their side lovers.


----------



## SunCMars

On Warren Buffet, the Sage of Omaha.

He has financial sense but not a lick of political sense.

Living in a bubble, he cannot walk the talk with middle class Wages.


----------



## Andy1001

SunCMars said:


> His bridge was one that went far, not too far. A lucky man he is.
> 
> It just shows that money can buy happiness, hell, he has enough money to corner the market on it.
> 
> He cannot buy every women; he does not need to.
> 
> There are billions of them in the candy store.
> Women of all stripes and of all colors.
> 
> All of them need to be fed, to be dressed, to be undressed, to be stroked.
> 
> Kings have always had their harems, their ladies-in-waiting.
> 
> 
> Women were given open/shut eyes for these two reasons.
> 
> 1) To look at men, to look them up and down, carefully.
> 
> 2) To close them when they see one ogre up close, too close for comfort.
> These women close their eyes to reality, just for a few minutes.
> At this closure, they dream of big houses, big diamonds, and big ****s on their side lovers.


Loath though I am to argue with the poet laureate of tam,you are wrong.
Money can’t buy happiness.
It can buy a better class of misery but not happiness.
Believe me I tried.


----------



## lucy999

southbound said:


> As a guy, I’m not looking for a woman to bring anything to a relationship except the fact that I click with her, I like and eventually love her, and I just connect with her. I guess I always thought that was what a relationship was about.
> 
> Personally, I can do any kind of chore I need to, for example. Everything from putting on a roof to cooking my supper. So, I don’t think that puts me in a position where regardless of what a woman can do, she doesn’t really bring anything to the relationship. I couldn’t care less about that. I couldn’t care less what her job is either. She can be a lawyer or a cashier at Wal Mart for all i care. I just care about whether we have a connection. I guess since I feel that way, I somehow think that is how women feel, but I’ve come to realize it’s not.


Plenty of us out there!


----------



## lucy999

Nm


----------



## SunCMars

On Buffet....

The last administration blocked completion and use of the Keystone Pipeline and the North Dakota pipeline.

One of the big dollar donors against the pipeline was Warren Buffet.

During its blockage, the oil was transported by the Burlington Northern railroad which he owns and by the Union Pacific and the Canadian National Railway which he has shares in.

By playing politics and backing one winner against another, he profited. 

Did so, helping his big business, hurting middle class oil workers. Hurting our country.

How so?
By driving up costs, making oil more expensive on the world market.

Buffet votes Democrat. Imagine that.

A hypocrite, he.


The thing is....

When oil prices go down his margins go down. Yet, prices do not see or meet this cost reduction.
The cost of transportation drives up costs....unnecessarily.

Yes, the system using rail works, but it is more expensive and more risky.
All that oil running on old rail and rail equipment. Done so above ground, near rivers and aquifers.

Oil run underground is more safe, less likely to spill, more likely to be contained.
And can be transported cheaper once the pipeline is paid off.


----------



## Andy1001

SunCMars said:


> On Buffet....
> 
> The last administration blocked completion and use of the Keystone Pipeline and the North Dakota pipeline.
> 
> One of the big dollar donors against the pipeline was Warren Buffet.
> 
> During its blockage, the oil was transported by the Burlington Northern railroad which he owns and by the Union Pacific and the Canadian National Railway which he has shares in.
> 
> By playing politics and backing one winner against another, he profited.
> 
> Did so, helping his big business, hurting middle class oil workers. Hurting our country.
> 
> How so?
> By driving up costs, making oil more expensive on the world market.
> 
> Buffet votes Democrat. Imagine that.
> 
> A hypocrite, he.
> 
> 
> The thing is....
> 
> When oil prices go down his margins go down. Yet, prices do not see or meet this cost reduction.
> The cost of transportation drives up costs....unnecessarily.
> 
> Yes, the system using rail works, but it is more expensive and more risky.
> All that oil running on old rail and rail equipment. Done so above ground, near rivers and aquifers.
> 
> Oil run underground is more safe, less likely to spill, more likely to be contained.
> And can be transported cheaper once the pipeline is paid off.


Don’t let SimplyAmourous hear you saying this.
She will have your guts for garters.


----------



## SunCMars

Andy1001 said:


> Loath though I am to argue with the poet laureate of tam,you are wrong.
> Money can’t buy happiness.
> It can buy a better class of misery but not happiness.
> Believe me I tried.


Woe is you.....

I would try and succeed.

I simply need simplicity.

No money worries equals travel in style, travails at minimum.
I need only one woman, with money I can take my time searching, will not go broke on the hunt.

I know such a woman, she remains aloof.
Money could speed up things, time can be bought, history has proof.





THRD-


----------



## john117

Just like the modesty hallmarks I have a modest apartment in working class urban Europe, and a modest dacha in a modest village in extremely rural Europe. 

In other words, it all depends on your definition of modesty.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/28/warren-buffetts-method-of-air-travel-just-got-easier.html


----------



## john117

Araucaria said:


> Gosh....I have only heard him talking about his possessions when someone has actually asked him about it. So his and my idea of modesty is not quite the same as yours :wink2:


Meanwhile...

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/27/see...aguna-beach-house-on-sale-for-11-million.html


----------



## john117

Blondilocks said:


> You realize that you do have a tendency to let loose the green-eyed monster in some members, don't you? :grin2: You're doing a service - you're allowing them to let loose on a forum versus in real life where it wouldn't be received quite as well.
> 
> Have you thought about selling your shares in the apartment and the dacha and buying a yurt? Very fashionable and somewhat portable.


A yurt will work great. It's what AT&T Wireless uses to test their cellular service indoors so...

(Lab joke)


----------



## SunCMars

Andy1001 said:


> Don’t let Simply Amorous hear you saying this.
> She will have your guts for garters.


There is more to life than politics.
There is more than politics in men.

Uh, in some men, in some woman.

I know you are right...
Or, are you left?
...................................................................................................

I fear where we now head.

Our tails are well disposed, our future heads are predisposed, are addled.
Filled with anguish, filled up from some malevolent, some outside forces, dividing our great country.

Neptune seems to be gaining a foothold on Earth, again, mind you.
The first step squashes out any sense of the individual mind, the individual country.

A collective virus has beset us. It's first conquest will be the minds of youth.
It is happening.


----------



## Andy1001

SunCMars said:


> Woe is you.....
> 
> I would try and succeed.
> 
> I simply need simplicity.
> 
> No money worries equals travel in style, travails at minimum.
> I need only one woman, with money I can take my time searching, will not go broke on the hunt.
> 
> I know such a woman, she remains aloof.
> Money could speed up things, time can be bought, history has proof.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THRD-


Then you have all the money you could ever use and you find the woman but she is a unicorn.She doesn’t want to spend your money.
“Why travel first class,economy is just as good”.
“Why not just bring a sandwich,no need to go to a restaurant”.
“I don’t need a new car,I can buy used”.
Or god forbid,”We don’t need a caterer,I’ll cook”.
Like I said,a Unicorn.


----------



## uhtred

Is it? To me being a "friend" of someone awesome / famous isn't at all like being that person. 




inmyprime said:


> Well you can become friends with any of those people of you have money and it’s virtually the same thing.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SunCMars

Andy1001 said:


> Then you have all the money you could ever use and you find the woman but she is a unicorn.She doesn’t want to spend your money.
> “Why travel first class,economy is just as good”.
> “Why not just bring a sandwich,no need to go to a restaurant”.
> “I don’t need a new car,I can buy used”.
> Or god forbid,”We don’t need a caterer,I’ll cook”.
> Like I said,a Unicorn.


So it seems...

Who am I, I but a fool, to argue?

Old dreams last the longest, usually go down in flames, with some hopeful flame at hand.

Men remain so hopeful, hopeless.


----------



## Adelais

john117 said:


> A yurt will work great. It's what AT&T Wireless uses to test their cellular service indoors so...
> 
> (Lab joke)


I have a friend who lives in a 900 sq ft yurt on 5 acres, has a goat and grows some of her own food, and although she chose it out of principal, she hates it now and wants a house in town. 

She talks about buying a 900 sq ft. house! I have told her she will be just as miserable in that, since she needs a pantry, LOL. I told her that when we rebuild our pantry will be at least 144 sq. ft. She likes my plan for a pantry. 

Whenever she comes over to drop off or pick up her daughter from a party she usually makes a comment about the size of our home. The most memorable one was made by her husband, "Our entire yurt could fit in your kitchen." Another time she commented that her yurt would fit in our living room.

Most people make comments about our home the first time they come over because they had no idea of its size. That kind of bothers me because how big our home is doesn't matter to us....except that it takes a lot of work to clean 5,400 square feet, and we don't have a housekeeper.

Since several children have or are about to move out on their own I am wanting to downsize, which means cut our home size in half. I think I could be happy in a 2,700 sq. ft. home, which is too small for some, a mansion to others, but just right for me!

So John, I am not jealous of your McMansion. I just get tired of hearing about it Every. Single. Day.


----------



## Adelais

john117 said:


> Meanwhile...
> 
> https://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/27/see...aguna-beach-house-on-sale-for-11-million.html


He purchased that beachfront home i 1971 for $150,000. It has appreciated to $11 million. 

He bought it to make his wife happy, not to impress the neighbors. All his neighbors there also have nice homes, LOL!

Just like his home in Nebraska, the beachfront home has appreciated.

He is not a puffed up braggart, just a smart investor.


----------



## john117

My cat could have made the same profit at the same location and time frame... 

Perhaps focusing on what you can achieve versus what others achieve usually helps get ahead, BTW.


----------



## Andy1001

john117 said:


> My cat could have made the same profit at the same location and time frame...
> 
> Perhaps focusing on what you can achieve versus what others achieve usually helps get ahead, BTW.


In the early eighties my Dad bought an apartment in Manhattan for just under half a million bucks.It had three parking spots in the underground parking lot.
I have been offered two hundred and fifty grand for one of the spaces.
Location Location Location.That’s what buying property is all about.


----------



## 269370

Andy1001 said:


> Then you have all the money you could ever use and you find the woman but she is a unicorn.She doesn’t want to spend your money.
> 
> “Why travel first class,economy is just as good”.
> 
> “Why not just bring a sandwich,no need to go to a restaurant”.
> 
> “I don’t need a new car,I can buy used”.
> 
> Or god forbid,”We don’t need a caterer,I’ll cook”.
> 
> Like I said,a Unicorn.



Crazy! I hope you signed a prenup. You will save too much money if she won’t let you spend it and drown in it by mistake! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 269370

uhtred said:


> Is it? To me being a "friend" of someone awesome / famous isn't at all like being that person.



Yes it’s probably better. You get all the fun mixing with the top people, choose and pick, dip in and out of their life style without the baggage.
Being top at your profession brings a ton of problems and usually results in shortened life span...
Anyway it’s sidetracking a bit: I would be interested to know what lifestyle it is people are referring to exactly. Because I’m pretty sure that money will be 95% of the missing ingredient.
You certainly have choice with money (up to a point). Without it, you don’t.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Adelais

Andy1001 said:


> In the early eighties my Dad bought an apartment in Manhattan for just under half a million bucks.It had three parking spots in the underground parking lot.
> I have been offered two hundred and fifty grand for one of the spaces.
> Location Location Location.That’s what buying property is all about.


You might later regret selling a parking spot. If you decide to move into that apartment for some reason with your family, and three of you need parking spaces you'll be looking for one and having to pay $5K for it.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Araucaria said:


> You might later regret selling a parking spot. If you decide to move into that apartment for some reason with your family, and three of you need parking spaces you'll be looking for one and having to pay $5K for it.


From what I have gathered, Andy is wealthy and not likely to have any issues buying anything he needs or wants.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

john117 said:


> My cat could have made the same profit at the same location and time frame...


 Damn, you've got a 47 year old cat that speculates real estate? You really are livin' the life.


----------



## Blondilocks

Rubix Cubed said:


> Damn, you've got a 47 year old cat that speculates real estate? You really are livin' the life.


Some folks are just charmed.:grin2:


----------



## john117

Rubix Cubed said:


> Damn, you've got a 47 year old cat that speculates real estate? You really are livin' the life.


What can I say. He knows location, he knows design...


----------



## 2&out

Smart cat - hiding from being on laminate floor looking at generic white wall with cheap painted baseboard. El-yuck-o !


----------



## Blondilocks

2&out said:


> Smart cat - hiding from being on laminate floor looking at generic white wall with cheap painted baseboard. El-yuck-o !


It's getting ugly.:redcard:


----------



## john117

2&out said:


> Smart cat - hiding from being on laminate floor looking at generic white wall with cheap painted baseboard. El-yuck-o !


He looks good regardless of background 

The real intelligence was finding a nicely remodeled apartment close to school for not a whole lot of money.


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## personofinterest

I am not a cat person, and that is a BEAUTIFUL cat.


----------



## Andy1001

john117 said:


> He looks good regardless of background
> 
> The real intelligence was finding a nicely remodeled apartment close to school for not a whole lot of money.


A friend of mine in had a cat and every so often the cat would just stare into one corner of her bedroom while standing perfectly still.There was never anything there,I think the cat did it to scare my friend.


----------



## Girl_power

Araucaria said:


> Is there going to be a second date???!!!




Yes! We have had a few!


----------



## Andy1001

inmyprime said:


> Crazy! I hope you signed a prenup. You will save too much money if she won’t let you spend it and drown in it by mistake!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It gets better my friend.When she moved in with me I already had household staff so she didn’t have to cook (thank god lol) unless she really wanted to and all the grocery shopping was done online.But we have twice spent a month in London because of a contract I signed and she decided she was doing the housework herself despite my protestations.
She discovered the joys of British supermarkets and her first attempt at shopping led to her buying Aldi sodas,coffee,bread,cookies etc.When I asked her why she was buying this stuff she said it was cheaper than regular brands.I asked her had she any idea of how bad this stuff tasted but she was adamant that because she had bought a trolley load of food we had to eat it.
She was wrong about that lol.


----------



## 2&out

See his/her expression when it has to sit on that floor ? LOL !  (Attempt to be funny people - as was other one. Yes I fail sometimes. I'm not claiming to be one of the intelligent - hell, someone has to balance out all the smart people. I'm good on the football thing though.. LOL)

Is a nice looking cat. But it's missing is a dead mole or bird in its mouth.


----------



## Adelais

john117 said:


> My cat could have made the same profit at the same location and time frame...
> 
> Perhaps focusing on what you can achieve versus what others achieve usually helps get ahead, BTW.


You posted that video about Buffet's $11K beachfront home, John. Are you focusing on other people's money and achievements? 
:wink2:


----------



## john117

Araucaria said:


> You posted that video about Buffet's $11K beachfront home, John. Are you focusing on other people's money and achievements?
> :wink2:


Nope. I have learned long ago to not care. I'm also not impressed with money. The real value to me is intelligence in itself. I did well by teaching that to my girls. 

Money comes and goes. The ability to do something with your talent, whatever that may be, is forever.


----------



## DTO

You may be right, but isn't that a part of being able to care fot oneself?

Earlier I said that women are attracted to guys that can care for themselves. This isn't just making ends meet. It means you're independent, have a stash in the bank just in case and a plan for the future. And people who have that have the means to enjoy a few nice things.

"Adequate" sounds like "getting by". Most people want better and work hard to have it. Why be with someone who might not pull their weight in building the success you want?

And if you achieved that level of success, you've worked hard for it. What would be the appeal of someone who probably doesn't have that value system?

Again, it's not about the money. It is about having the ambition to achieve a certain level of success in life, and not choosing a partner who doesn't.

FWIW, guys (stereotypically) aren't as worried about financial success as women. Even so, I (and most men I know) would be turned off by someone who simply doesn't try hard. It makes total sense that women would feel the same.



southbound said:


> I have to with arb for my experience. I don’t believe it means that every woman is looking for a millionaire, but I’ve never met a woman who didn’t like some nice things of some nature in modern times. My grandmother may have been happy with a good man who put food on the table and a roof over her head that didn’t leak, but I’ve noticed it takes a little more these days. If a guy is the type who is satisfied with “adequate,” women aren’t usually forming a line at his door.


----------



## 269370

What do you do after you have achieved everything you always wanted to achieve? Depressing.
I think one needs to find another value metric. 
Money and success is a bit like frequent sex: it only matters if you don’t have it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Andy1001

inmyprime said:


> What do you do after you have achieved everything you always wanted to achieve? Depressing.
> I think one needs to find another value metric.
> Money and success is a bit like frequent sex: it only matters if you don’t have it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That’s a lot got to do with your rock star analogy.What happens when the success finishes,the world tours are no more and million selling albums are a thing of the past.


----------



## 269370

Andy1001 said:


> That’s a lot got to do with your rock star analogy.What happens when the success finishes,the world tours are no more and million selling albums are a thing of the past.



Yep. You need to find stuff to light yourself up from inside (difficult if you are used to get validation from outside). Or surround yourself with nice people, plus hobbies or something. Doesn’t just happen to rock stars of course.. Even if you worked all your life in top positions, eventually people retire or get replaced.
Haven’t figured that one out completely yet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## john117

inmyprime said:


> Yep. You need to find stuff to light yourself up from inside (difficult if you are used to get validation from outside). Or surround yourself with nice people, plus hobbies or something. Doesn’t just happen to rock stars of course.. Even if you worked all your life in top positions, eventually people retire or get replaced.
> Haven’t figured that one out completely yet.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Patents


----------



## 269370

john117 said:


> Patents



Those also run out.  Nothing lasts.
Need a drink  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## john117

inmyprime said:


> Those also run out.  Nothing lasts.
> Need a drink
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Getting patents, I'm not worried about them expiring.


----------



## Elizabeth001

DTO said:


> You may be right, but isn't that a part of being able to care fot oneself?
> 
> Earlier I said that women are attracted to guys that can care for themselves. This isn't just making ends meet. It means you're independent, have a stash in the bank just in case and a plan for the future. And people who have that have the means to enjoy a few nice things.
> 
> "Adequate" sounds like "getting by". Most people want better and work hard to have it. Why be with someone who might not pull their weight in building the success you want?
> 
> And if you achieved that level of success, you've worked hard for it. What would be the appeal of someone who probably doesn't have that value system?
> 
> Again, it's not about the money. It is about having the ambition to achieve a certain level of success in life, and not choosing a partner who doesn't.
> 
> FWIW, guys (stereotypically) aren't as worried about financial success as women. Even so, I (and most men I know) would be turned off by someone who simply doesn't try hard. It makes total sense that women would feel the same.




Worth repeating 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Andy1001

inmyprime said:


> Those also run out.  Nothing lasts.
> Need a drink
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


An average patent lasts fourteen years in the design field but can be extended up to twenty with periodic maintenance fees.But in most digital design situations fourteen year old technology is prehistoric.
Stuff I worked on ten years ago is obsolete and has been for years.
The trick is to stay ahead of the competition.


----------



## john117

Andy1001 said:


> An average patent lasts fourteen years in the design field but can be extended up to twenty with periodic maintenance fees.But in most digital design situations fourteen year old technology is prehistoric.
> Stuff I worked on ten years ago is obsolete and has been for years.
> The trick is to stay ahead of the competition.


My work goes into the corporate IP portfolio and that's all she wrote.


----------



## 2&out

Semi thread drift. Some "careers", or "jobs" can be over by the time a guy is 30. He's over, done. Like computer jobs now unless you are major on top of your game. New kids on the block are bigger, faster, way smarter and have more innate ability. But if you played your short game semi intelligent (that is the original kind of idea of this thread I thought) a person planned for that short "career" and planned for the next one. And saved some of the cash.

This isn't our parents age/day. One "career" or life work plan, is the past. Very few these days IMHO are more than 15 years. High paying jobs are high burn out. A stable career is a thing of the past.

I will comment about "star" stuff and "buying" that lifestyle. No you can't. You are just another groupee no matter how much $ you have. Thx for picking up the tab. $ can buy the association of anothers talent but not the talent or ability to do the work they did/can do. A person can hang with a great artist but can't paint - they can only buy. A person can share and enjoy a victory but will never experience spiking the ball. Or hearing thunderous applause on stage. 

Back to the original thread. I have a Masters degree. - that I got between "working" a couple years. I think I am not especially intelligent. In fact I am kind of dumb. I have 2 failed marriages and literally several million $ lost to prove it. I have no idea what women want, still - at now 57. And now I am probably even more dumb because I have stopped caring/trying. But that seems to be working for me ! LOL !


----------



## Girl_power

inmyprime said:


> What do you do after you have achieved everything you always wanted to achieve? Depressing.
> I think one needs to find another value metric.
> Money and success is a bit like frequent sex: it only matters if you don’t have it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




I disagree. I think you can enjoy what you have, especially after working so hard for it. But also, one should never stop setting goals and dreams.


----------



## EllisRedding

personofinterest said:


> Faithful wife, I suspect your post is exactly correct. Most of the time people who say they don't care what a partner does for a living, it's basically one of those self righteous sounding stretches. Most men would not want to date a working porne star or someone who cooks meth in the basement. Let's get real


IDK, if it means my W is cooking anything, even meth, I am on board :grin2:


----------



## PigglyWiggly

EllisRedding said:


> IDK, if it means my W is cooking anything, even meth, I am on board :grin2:


If she's cooking meth, you'll probably have great sex!


----------



## Rubix Cubed

PigglyWiggly said:


> If she's cooking meth, you'll probably have great sex!


 At the least you don't have to worry about the teeth.


----------



## uhtred

I think that good goals are ones that don't have set limits, but where you can continue to expand. 

If you do actually get as far as it is possible to go with your goals, then come up with new goals. 






inmyprime said:


> What do you do after you have achieved everything you always wanted to achieve? Depressing.
> I think one needs to find another value metric.
> Money and success is a bit like frequent sex: it only matters if you don’t have it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 269370

uhtred said:


> I think that good goals are ones that don't have set limits, but where you can continue to expand.
> 
> 
> 
> If you do actually get as far as it is possible to go with your goals, then come up with new goals.



It’s tricky with goals. I always set goals that are expandable but sometimes it’s silly to keep pushing further. There comes a point where just maintaining a balance and staying where you are, being in the prime of your life, becomes a goal in itself. And you realise that that’s the hardest goal of all because life is so ****ing fluid.

What I didn’t realise (when I was still pursuing dreams & goals) is that the more you reach and accumulate in terms of personal achievements or wealth is that you just end up in a position where a small life **** up can cost you so much and by having done and got more, you just have a lot more to lose, compared to someone who’s still on the way to somewhere.

It’s disproportional: a small achievement for someone who doesn’t have much is a big thing. Another achievement for someone has a lot, does not add anything much. However the latter person is more susceptible to get their life wrecked somehow and it can change everything: because that state is not normal in the first place. People in such positions perhaps fool themselves that it will continue like this indefinitely. But the odds are completely against you. I can feel it.

How do you let go and just accept it. Literally anything can happen that is beyond your control.
For the last 5 years or so, it has been like looking at the stock market graph in 1999: you know deep down it can only go one way and there’s not much you can do about it. 

Ok, enough happy thoughts for Sunday afternoon. What’s good on the penis threads? 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DTO

inmyprime said:


> Let’s ask the question a different way: would you (a woman) date/marry a poor guy (he doesn’t need to be cooking meth but who works in a coffee shop or gives surfing lessons and earns minimum wage)? It will be interesting to see how many women answer yes to this question vs how many men would answer yes to the question if the situation was reversed.


I think this is a great point, because there is a difference between something being acceptable in the abstract vs. whether you would accept it into your personal situation.

I would be fine with a lady who didn't have or make much, as long as:
*she is able to care for herself and not running up debt or getting behind on stuff, and
*she has a level of drive / ambition and not be doing menial jobs because she doesn't want to apply herself. 

There are some caveats, though. One, I've done well and am in a good spot financially, owning a nice home and on the way to a nice retirement. If I hadn't done as well or was still in the building phase of my life, I would need someone who was able to contribute to the family's needs and not just keep up after herself. Two, I'm not in a situation to give away huge chunks of what I have. For instance, I have no problem having someone move into my home while I pay the bills (as my GF has done) because I can absorb the extra costs. But, selling my house to buy one jointly with someone else (unless she is going to contribute a full 50% of all the costs) is not going to happen.


----------



## uhtred

Doesn't having more mean that you can tolerate more loss? If a poor person loses their job or gets divorced they can end up on the street. For a wealthy person its just a few fewer luxuries. 

Small mistakes can end anyone - a slip an fall, a traffic accident. 

I'm not worried about stocks in particular, I have my money diversified - which means it earns less, but is less likely to disappear. I am worried about major political disruption, but there isn't a lot I can do about that either. I could lose everything, including things that mean more to me than money, in lots of ways. but really nothing I can do about that





inmyprime said:


> It’s tricky with goals. I always set goals that are expandable but sometimes it’s silly to keep pushing further. There comes a point where just maintaining a balance and staying where you are, being in the prime of your life, becomes a goal in itself. And you realise that that’s the hardest goal of all because life is so ****ing fluid.
> 
> What I didn’t realise (when I was still pursuing dreams & goals) is that the more you reach and accumulate in terms of personal achievements or wealth is that you just end up in a position where a small life **** up can cost you so much and by having done and got more, you just have a lot more to lose, compared to someone who’s still on the way to somewhere.
> 
> It’s disproportional: a small achievement for someone who doesn’t have much is a big thing. Another achievement for someone has a lot, does not add anything much. However the latter person is more susceptible to get their life wrecked somehow and it can change everything: because that state is not normal in the first place. People in such positions perhaps fool themselves that it will continue like this indefinitely. But the odds are completely against you. I can feel it.
> 
> How do you let go and just accept it. Literally anything can happen that is beyond your control.
> For the last 5 years or so, it has been like looking at the stock market graph in 1999: you know deep down it can only go one way and there’s not much you can do about it.
> 
> Ok, enough happy thoughts for Sunday afternoon. What’s good on the penis threads?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 269370

uhtred said:


> Doesn't having more mean that you can tolerate more loss?


One would expect so but it doesn’t feel like this. At least not with non-monetary things.
For example if you have 3 kids and if something bad happened to one of them, it would be totally devastating, not just ‘a third’ devastating.





untred said:


> Small mistakes can end anyone - a slip an fall, a traffic accident.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not worried about stocks in particular, I have my money diversified - which means it earns less, but is less likely to disappear. I am worried about major political disruption, but there isn't a lot I can do about that either. I could lose everything, including things that mean more to me than money, in lots of ways. but really nothing I can do about that



Yes I only used the stock graph example symbolically, at where I feel my life is right now.
I think the basic idea is that once you have built up a very good life (not just financially), not just for yourself but for people around you, small **** up to yourself, will have a huge knock on effect on others - that’s what I meant. I don’t know maybe I’m not explaining it well but I feel there’s a huge weight I need to pull with many people for whose happiness & well-being one is responsible and somehow I lack the mechanism to just sit back and enjoy stuff, because of the constant worry of ‘what did I miss that could **** everything up?’ 
You can’t really see the blind spots but they are there. When I was alone, no family, when building things up, somehow you could make mistakes and they wouldn’t damage the overall situation so much - you could just get up and try again and no one was hurt. Now it just doesn’t feel the same.



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## southbound

2&out said:


> . I have no idea what women want, still - at now 57. And now I am probably even more dumb because I have stopped caring/trying. But that seems to be working for me ! LOL !


I feel similar. I’m pushing 51, and I have no idea what women in general want. A lot say they want a guy who is honest, kind, hard working, and can make them laugh. Well, that really oversimplifies things, because if that were the main things women wanted, i k ow some guys, including myself, whose phone would be ringing off the hook. I feel like I know less now than I thought I knew when I was 20.


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