# What I have learned the last 16 months



## love=pain (Nov 26, 2012)

This is kinda of a response to;
Been In R for 18 mo, Now thinking Divorce and some things I have been thinking reading some of the newer people and their troubles wanted to throw my 2 cents in.

1. You will never know everything- unless you were standing right next to them during the whole episode *you will never know*, details will be left out maybe because they forgot (but not likely), they don't want to hurt you anymore(better than average), they really don't want you to know just how fxcked up and twisted they are if you did you would leave in a heartbeat. (bingo you win)

As a side note to this if they never were able to meet the AP in person everything was online, calls or texts then there was no sex, however if they were alone at any time *they had sex* adults have sex this isn't high school where they made out and felt each other up (see the last sentence above)

2. An admission of guilt isn't always what it seems- whether under your cross examination or freely admitted (red flag) any admission they make doesn't have the purpose you think most of the time it is a way to simply control the information you get sometimes to just make you happy, other times it is a way to distract you from finding out some other information sort of throwing you off the scent.

3. The morals that they have exhibited during your relationship were not adhered to during the cheating (examples:they didn't like giving oral sex for either men or women or they have never sent you any dirty pics / texts cause they were self conscious) If your WS let their vows fall by the wayside you can bet the morals went with it. 

4. This will never completely go away, you will never fully trust them it will always taint your marriage. There are several people on TAM who have stayed married and it does seem to prosper after the cheating but that dull ache is a constant and to everyone who knows it will always be he/she cheated whenever they talk about your marriage.

5. Even if you move out of your house / town to a cave you will have something that triggers you and you will have to deal with them.

6. For any who are new/just found out you will find solid ground again after all the hysterical stuff is over your confidence will come back and you will see that you can live without them if you really want to. I learned my kids will be o.k. if we D I will need to step up my parent game and just do better but they will come out all right. The money? well if you didn't start squaring that away in case the R failed you had better start after the kids finances are the second biggest obstacle to leaving. 

Now many may read this and say I am headed for divorce, right now I am not but I do see things for what they are and what they will probably be in the future and I want any decisions to simply be about her and I and the desire to stay will be if I want to not that I have to.
Oh and all the silly stuff I wrote above this in the end you just have to live with it, if you can stay if not well


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

love=pain said:


> Now many may read this and say I am headed for divorce, right now I am not but I do see things for what they are and what they will probably be in the future and I want any decisions to simply be about her and I and the desire to stay will be if I want to not that I have to.
> Oh and all the silly stuff I wrote above this in the end you just have to live with it, if you can stay if not well



I suppose it depends on what you value. If you stay then you really dont mind living what you learned.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

love=pain said:


> *4. This will never completely go away, you will never fully trust them it will always taint your marriage. There are several people on TAM who have stayed married and it does seem to prosper after the cheating but that dull ache is a constant and to everyone who knows it will always be he/she cheated whenever they talk about your marriage.*


:iagree::iagree: And if you do leave it will haunt your future relationships...the WS has damaged you for life.....


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## love=pain (Nov 26, 2012)

aug said:


> I suppose it depends on what you value. If you stay then you really dont mind living what you learned.


You are right whether I like these things or not if I stay I am accepting them , many people work in a job they dont like or live in a neighborhood they hate why I dont know.
I was responding a bit to the other thread and how you can go through an R for several months or even years before it all becomes too much and you finally divorce.


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## confusedFather (Jul 15, 2012)

Well the unicorn just shat on the rainbow. This OP is a sober smack of reality.


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## still so sad (May 27, 2013)

Thank you Love=Pain.

Great post. Hard to read but a great post.

My heart just hurts. I want to wake up and have it all be a bad dream. I know that wont happen. This is now part of the fabric of my life and I hate it.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

OP:

I've taken interest in your particular story. You are making a lot of sense in this thread, and headed toward the right course of action, IMO. just keep in mind that delaying the inevitable can often produce additional burdens. Take care of yourself.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> :iagree::iagree: And if you do leave it will haunt your future relationships...the WS has damaged you for life.....


even if the BS leaves and finds another love, a 2nd spouse that is loyal and just generally crazy in love with the BS? wouldn't that, potentially, put the WS pretty well out of mind??


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

nuclearnightmare said:


> even if the BS leaves and finds another love, a 2nd spouse that is loyal and just generally crazy in love with the BS? wouldn't that, potentially, put the WS pretty well out of mind??


I am on that path.... Married a great woman last October.

Yes and no for me. 

I think I have changed as far as defined boundries. It is also easier for me to see red flags where they may not actually exist. Heightened awareness. I tend to act quickly, and then spend the next day realizing it was not probably the best reaction. Make sense? It can damage the new relationship if you are still reacting to old triggers from your past marriage.

My mind is definitely more peaceful than it has been since d-day, but not as peaceful as it was the years prior to d-day.

My heart appreciates the new love more. Grateful to find a sweet person that does not show the self-entitlement that was in the past marriage.

I would say that this BH is in a different kind of marriage the second time. Better in many ways. I actually feel it was an upgrade inspite of the heartache from the first one.


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## confusedFather (Jul 15, 2012)

nuclearnightmare said:


> even if the BS leaves and finds another love, a 2nd spouse that is loyal and just generally crazy in love with the BS? wouldn't that, potentially, put the WS pretty well out of mind??


It might put the WS out of your mind but will you trust the new love not to do the same. I never thought my W was capable of cheating. She was so against it. We knew people that had cheated and she HATED them. Maybe it was her way of trying to crush her only feelings to stray. Regardless, I'll never believe that someone is not capable of cheating.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Good post love=pain.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## whatUknow (Aug 17, 2013)

love=pain said:


> however if they were alone at any time *they had sex* adults have sex this isn't high school where they made out and felt each other up (see the last sentence above)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


These parts really rang true with me. 
After figuring out I had been cheated on and confronting her she only told me part of the truth each time... months later and several confrontations later I found out that indeed they had gone all the way... with this info I would have pushed harder for the full truth and not wasted so much time.


3. this part was interesting - I noticed during this time that she turned hyper sexual which for me was amazing - (now I realize why and obviously not so amazed by it). She did a lot of things during that time that she had never done in my more than 9 years of knowing her... and months after the affair she is back to her old self... although we are working on rebuilding things so who knows

4. I know this is true because my GF of 3 years before cheated on me (pattern maybe?) and really effected things going into this relationship until I really faced it, processed it and moved forward. but it's still always there. 

5. There are a lot, it becomes (or for me has become) easier and less frequent with time... but atleast for me it's much like PTSD... I will have a trigger (and sometimes out of nowhere it seems) will lead to an episode of stomach pain (killer butterflies) random images and questions, obsession followed by sadness, anxiety, anger etc

Sucks when you love someone.


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## love=pain (Nov 26, 2012)

calvin said:


> Good post love=pain.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks

I would love to hear from other people who are 2 - 3 or 5 years out
those that are still married and those who divorced and see how they feel.
The unknown is my fear and what's worse most of the unknown is about me will I wake up one morning and just say enough and is that day tomorrow , next month, 2 years from now. That is not my desire right now and in many ways I hope it never is so maybe I never wake up feeling that way.
All of us BSs live with the unknown of will our spouses ever cheat again heck will anyone else I find cheat, it is almost unfair to treat a new person with so much suspicion but I am not sure I could ever trust anyone again.


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## Burned (Jul 13, 2013)

whatUknow said:


> Sucks when you love someone.



I'm thinking more along the lines of It sucks when you love someone who doesn't love you.


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

A cost-benefit analysis? Lol!

Will the fear of cheating deny you the opportunity to love? 

I would always gamble in favor of living a life with love.


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

That was meant for Love=pain. Just thinking that love always comes at a price.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

good news on the fear of the next spouse cheating. I do agree that almost everyone is capable of straying, but most spouses do NOT cheat (according to most relaiable numbers)!


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## confusedFather (Jul 15, 2012)

nuclearnightmare said:


> good news on the fear of the next spouse cheating. I do agree that almost everyone is capable of straying, but most spouses do NOT cheat (according to most relaiable numbers)!


I've seen numbers that show quite the opposite. 60% of men and 40%-50% of women. Assume half the 40% of women are cheating with a single man and 80% or relationships have cheaters.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

confusedFather said:


> I've seen numbers that show quite the opposite. 60% of men and 40%-50% of women. Assume half the 40% of women are cheating with a single man and 80% or relationships have cheaters.


you were right to call me on this, because I don't really know which set of numbers is the most reliable. I believe the lower sets of statistics are more credible based on the credentials/credibility of those who assert their validity. The set of numbers that I think are more credible are 14% - wifes; 22% - husbands. these are based on an often cited, recent study. pretty sure the sample was from United States.

Hard numbers to measure -infidelity rates for a population! but unfortunately I think the answers do matter. e.g. a BH wanting to set out to find happiness after a divorce will look at the world differently if they think they have an 86% chance of success, vs a 50-60% chance.


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## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

Aloha Love-Pain, 

First marriage of eight years and my spouse cheated = divorce and utter devastation for me. I was the walking wounded. Young, naive and positive I would never love or heal. I was haunted by the experience and it tainted everything. 

Flash forward and found new love and married. I was comforted and surprised at how little the previous experience had on current marriage until...dum dum dummmmmm. He cheated via a online EA. One would think that having been a seasoned BS I would have seen the signs as if they were neon. Nope, I was oblivious until my spidery sense finally caught some clues. 

It's going on a year and half since Dday and it does get better but as someone stated, it does lay a "film" over everything. The triggers are fewer but they still have bite. 

Just this morning I was talking and enjoying our coffee time and I suddenly thought of how during his EA he tried to call her on his evening commute and how he was capable of a double life. He was actually _pursuing_ the contact. Some days I can't wrap my brain around it but it gives me comfort to know that I did heal from the prior marriage and that with time the sharpness dulls.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

confusedFather said:


> I've seen numbers that show quite the opposite. 60% of men and 40%-50% of women. Assume half the 40% of women are cheating with a single man and 80% or relationships have cheaters.


You forgot about the 20% that lied and said they aren't cheaters, but actually are..


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

We live, we learn, and more often than not we get hurt.

I will never trust my wife as blindly as I did before but I also will not allow my emotions to control me, I must control them, I can be happy and love my wife even though she cheated, the same as she can address the issues with me that lead to her mistake, it is all about learning.

I had an extreme moment of clarity a few weeks back after a massive trigger almost tearing me apart, ended up sitting in the front yard smoking a Cuban, drinking a Scotch on the rocks and there was a sudden clarity that shone before me, it measured up as " wake up d!ck head, live your life and stop living in fear", I then came in and sat down to read a thread from Truthseeker1 about controlling our emotional monsters and I have not looked back for one split second since!!!

I urge everyone to seek out that post, it was truly enlightening for me


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

russell28 said:


> You forgot about the 20% that lied and said they aren't cheaters, but actually are..


Maybe we should all get vaccinated and avoid marriage. Lol! It is bad. 

I guess we learn that we are not unique, and our spouses are not special.

That being said, it still is fun to chase and pretend.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

love=pain said:


> As a side note to this if they never were able to meet the AP in person everything was online, calls or texts then there was no sex, however if they were alone at any time *they had sex* adults have sex this isn't high school where they made out and felt each other up (see the last sentence above)
> 
> 4. This will never completely go away, you will never fully trust them it will always taint your marriage. There are several people on TAM who have stayed married and it does seem to prosper after the cheating but that dull ache is a constant and to everyone who knows it will always be he/she cheated whenever they talk about your marriage.



All great points in the initial post, but these 2 stand out in particular.

I've read a lot of infidelity stories on here and elsewhere.

2 things that always come to mind when I read these things..

Very often a poster will say .. my spouse had an EA and the first thing I wonder if it was really an EA and if there's anything in their story that says the two of them were alone, in the same place, at the same time, then it was undoubtedly a PA but the poster is in denial, because they feel that an EA is much less damaging and an easier pill to swallow then full blown sex.

I often wonder how even successful reconciliations can occur without there being scars and other damage that lasts for the duration of the relationship and I also often wonder if any one person, who was so deceptive, selfish and hurtful, is worth a second chance. And yeah, other people will always look at the couple as "the one with the former cheater". That never goes away.


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

lenzi said:


> All great points in the initial post, but these 2 stand out in particular.
> 
> I've read a lot of infidelity stories on here and elsewhere.
> 
> ...


We wonder about the same things. As I learn, I feel D is usually better than R in a post-affair marriage. 

Not always, but it is true for most cases, IMO.


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## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

In my first marriage is was physical sex and lots of it ( he confessed to all the previous cheating, ONS in one big confession dump. The final affair being "true love" and local. 

With this husband the EA was all online because she lived in Iran (or that's the story anyway) Honestly, I don't think I could get past physical cheating. Couldn't do in the first marriage and can barley do it with it being EA. 

I'm not saying it can't be done, just I've not reached that stage of enlightenment in this lifetime. I admire people who can.


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