# Details of affair....



## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

What kind of details did you ask about with the affair? For some reason I am wanting to know everything... literally everything. What exactly they did ... is that weird? I am probably just torturing myself and I'm sure he wouldn't tell the truth anyway. Is knowing everything about the sexual encounter important?


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

Oh and I can't seem to even enjoy sex anymore bc I all I can think about is him with her. It's terrible.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Only if you care....I did not {at the time}............so looooong ago. 

If you care..........To Know....is to Die.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

adegirl2016 said:


> Oh and I can't seem to even enjoy sex anymore bc I all I can think about is him with her. It's terrible.


If you're reconciling and want to have any hope of a sex life with your WH, you don't want to know. If you're thinking about them together now, it probably won't get easier if you know the gory details.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

I guess I was hoping if I knew, i would stop obsessing over it... I think about it all the time!!! Ahhhh!!!


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

adegirl2016 said:


> I guess I was hoping if I knew, i would stop obsessing over it... I think about it all the time!!! Ahhhh!!!


You'll stop obsessing over it when you stop obsessing over it. It's a big damn deal and you're processing. You can do things to help the intrusive thoughts, like immediately think of something else each and every time an intrusive thought rears it's head. Intrusive thoughts will happen, but that doesn't mean you have to entertain them.

If you have details your imaginings will be replaced with visions of what was described.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

adegirl2016 said:


> I guess I was hoping if I knew, i would stop obsessing over it... I think about it all the time!!! Ahhhh!!!


In your minds-eye during lovemaking...change Him with You.....You making passionate love to a worthy man. 

A man with no guile, no gall. Just a loving hand, a loving, fast beating heart.


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

There is no right answer to this question, though it is a question we all ask ourselves. Some people immediately want to have lots of sex with there spouse and reconnect, some people immediately withdraw from the relationship never to return. The only right is what is right for you in your situation. Don't think you have to know what you want today as this is a process. Some days you will need to know details, other days you won't want to talk about it at all. I would recommend seeking out a professional counselor to help you through the process. This is like the death of a loved one, the death of a relationship, the marriage you once knew is over. Now you have to decide if you want to invest in a new relationship or cash in your chips and move on in a new direction. 

For your husband, he has to be willing to provide answers to your questions, though I urge you to not ask questions if you don't want to hear the answer. This will go a long way to helping you know if he is willing to help you heal. You need to let him know that withholding information is not protecting you it is safeguarding the other relationship. Take sometime to consider what you want to do and then do what is in your best interest.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

I needed to know, the mind movies I had were horrible. Understand this though, you will get a watered down version that will spark a new round of questions. These questions become asking for details you can never unhear again. In ways I view it as torturing yourself, but if you need to know then I get that too. Be careful in what you ask, a new cut will come from the questions that is very painful, hearing the details is difficult. However, hearing the details also helped that the mind movies didn't continue to be so intense. I knew what happened and my imagination made the mind movies so much worse. It's a double edged sword, it can also take your decision and twist it to become something else.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

I needed to know the details because:

1. I wanted to know the facts whenever possible instead of speculating as to what might be true. When you e-mails and other messaging, then you can know for sure when it was sent and what exactly was said. 

For example, my husband always maintained that his "special" friend had invited me to a dinner party of hers. I got to see the text message so at least I know that my husband did not make it up.

I could also see that my husband had asked me personal questions at her behest.

2. As stated here many times on TAM, if you choose to reconcile, you are effectively forgiving your wayward partner. Don't you want to know what you're forgiving.

3. There is effectively a statute of limitations on these things. E-mails and text messages get deleted, sometimes unintentionally. or data is lost when getting a new handset. Anything accessed online like credit card statements and phone bills are no longer readily available. You may not have access someone's Facebook wall because FB relationships charge and with them access. 

In other words, if you change your mind 2 years from now, you won't be able to piece as much information together as you would right now.

4. I also wanted to piece together a profile of this woman. My husband told me that he didn't find her that attractive and sometimes she was rude to him. So I was curious as to what was the attraction. Some people aren't curious about things like that. But some people like myself are.

5. I also liked knowing more about this woman to defend myself. For example, my husband accused me of being creepy and psycho for having googled her e-mail address. But I knew from the messaging that she had asked a lot questions about me which included our sex life. So I was to respond in rapid fire: "No more creepy than a stranger interesting herself in my sex life. Or the guy that I am dating that freely exposes that information." I went to point out:" Everything that I know about your friend is from information that she uploaded herself on the internet in public (meet up.com) and semi-public forums." 

She had at that time about 350 FB friends. With that number of FB friends, one needs to accept that some non Friends (like employers, of course) are going to have access to your wall. He never made that accusation against me again.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

As has been said, it comes down to the person. I wanted to know everything as everything had been hidden and lied about. I just wanted to know what it was that I was supposed to get over. All of the evidence was destroyed and to this day I do not know. Only that it was bad. I think knowing with certainty would have helped. As it is, I trust her not at all. For a long time it was tearing me apart. Now I do not care. We are no longer really a couple, except for co-parenting. We do not sleep in the same rooms except sometimes on vacation. If there is an option, I will choose a separate room or bed with two or more of the girls. I still sometimes wonder, but it does not obsessively occupy me like it once did. I think it is reasonable to want to know everything about the betrayal. I could not move on without that. And I have simply lost interest in the relationship except as it relates to raising our daughters.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

adegirl2016 said:


> Oh and I can't seem to even enjoy sex anymore bc I all I can think about is him with her. It's terrible.


Then stop having sex with him. Having sex with someone who is hurting you in any way is unhealthy. Even if he has stopped having sex with someone else and even if you want to reconcile, there is nothing wrong with cutting off sex until or unless you are feeling loved honored. What you are feeling is perfectly normal and I believe is a defense mechanism to protect you. It's telling you to move away from sex until things are no longer in flux.

Give yourself a chance to catch your breath.

It is normal to have questions. You are going to have these thoughts whether it's based on the information that your husband gives you or on your own made up scenarios.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

That's hard to do. For some reason I use sex as a form of validation. 

I don't know why. It's not really that great. I don't feel any passion during it and it just makes it an unpleasant experience. 

I think reconclitiation is just proving to be too difficult.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Harken Banks said:


> As has been said, it comes down to the person. I wanted to know everything as everything had been hidden and lied about. I just wanted to know what it was that I was supposed to get over. All of the evidence was destroyed and to this day I do not know. Only that it was bad. I think knowing with certainty would have helped. As it is, I trust her not at all. For a long time it was tearing me apart. Now I do not care. We are no longer really a couple, except for co-parenting. We do not sleep in the same rooms except sometimes on vacation. If there is an option, I will choose a separate room or bed with two or more of the girls. I still sometimes wonder, but it does not obsessively occupy me like it once did. I think it is reasonable to want to know everything about the betrayal. I could not move on without that. And I have simply lost interest in the relationship except as it relates to raising our daughters.


T/J

I thought of your story the other day, HB, and wondered how things were. I'm sorry to hear that it has turned out the way it has. I hope your daughters are doing well.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

I wanted to know, until I did know and now I wish I didn't. I don't know a lot of details and I purposely did not ask. If i knew they did it doggy style, I'd never be able to do it that way again. I found out he bought her a corona. I used to love corona in the summer time. I haven't had one yet this summer. I can't bring myself to drink one. I want to sell his car because I'm pretty sure she's been in it. I became obsessed with randomly throwing his boxer shorts away because I have visions of him sliding them off in front of her. I'm 9 months out, I can have sex with him just fine. But the sex part never bothered me as much. It's the emotional that bothered me. I can picture him doing all sorts of dirty things with her and it turns my stomach and I don't like it, but that's about it. But if I even slightly THINK of him telling her he loved her, I can't breathe, I get wave after wave of pain, I'll start crying so hard I hyperventilate. And all of that is based on assumptions. I don't think I could handle real details.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

I can understand that. I am pretty sure knowing details would ruin our sex life but I feel a need to know. Sometimes I feel like my subconscious is talking myself out of the marriage.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

adegirl2016 said:


> I can understand that. I am pretty sure knowing details would ruin our sex life but I feel a need to know. *Sometimes I feel like my subconscious is talking myself out of the marriage.*


You should listen to it for now.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

It is interesting how here and in a few other places, the advice is "to listen to your gut" and "trust your subconscious" and so on. So In find it unnerving when I mention to a close friend what I believe about someone ie, that that person broke a confidence; spread a rumor about me, etc.

Ok, not enough evidence for a decision in court to be made, but enough IMO, for me to make a decision as to how I want to deal with that person in the future. We will rarely have perfect knowledge in time to make a decision. Do you really want to invite that woman to your house whom you think is making the moves on your husband?

Sadly, though, these same naysayers come around looking for the same type of commiseration when they're trying to work out a situation.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

NextTimeAround said:


> It is interesting how here and in a few other places, the advice is "to listen to your gut" and "trust your subconscious" and so on. So In find it unnerving when I mention to a close friend what I believe about someone ie, that that person broke a confidence; spread a rumor about me, etc.
> 
> Ok, not enough evidence for a decision in court to be made, but enough IMO, for me to make a decision as to how I want to deal with that person in the future. We will rarely have perfect knowledge in time to make a decision. Do you really want to invite that woman to your house whom you think is making the moves on your husband?
> 
> Sadly, though, these same naysayers come around looking for the same type of commiseration when they're trying to work out a situation.


 I guess it all depends on whether you have good instincts or not. Mine are pretty solid and have helped me out of many situations, after all your "gut" instinct is nothing but subconscious catalogued events that help you form decisions in the form of a feeling. Reading them 'wrong' could easily steer you in the wrong direction, hence some people having bad instincts. 
Re: Your example . I wouldn't categorize that as a gut instinct, that person just flat out violated your trust and you should make your decision based on those facts. Not 'gut' needed.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Rubix Cubed said:


> I guess it all depends on whether you have good instincts or not. Mine are pretty solid and have helped me out of many situations, after all your "gut" instinct is nothing but subconscious catalogued events that help you form decisions in the form of a feeling. Reading them 'wrong' could easily steer you in the wrong direction, hence some people having bad instincts.
> Re: Your example . I wouldn't categorize that as a gut instinct, that person just flat out violated your trust and you should make your decision based on those facts. Not 'gut' needed.


Still friends / frenemies will say that you are overreacting.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

adegirl2016 said:


> What kind of details did you ask about with the affair? For some reason I am wanting to know everything... *literally everything. What exactly they did ... is that weird? *I am probably just torturing myself and I'm sure he wouldn't tell the truth anyway. Is knowing everything about the sexual encounter important?


Not at all. As AffairCare says... an affair is like a jigsaw puzzle with a million pieces. Your WS and AP know every detail and you are left guessing and wondering how deep the rabbit hole goes. 

Understand, knowing the complete, whole, honest, Truth is by far the most important thing that you will ever ask. Your W will never give you that. 

He will give you parts, bits, but rarely if ever do W give it all. They hang on to shame like some kind of Cross you will never know.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*M'dear: You simply don't want to know! They likely did everything imaginable, but will admit to none! 

Now as far as I am personally concerned, I found out everything from "their" social media right after our trial separation! I truly wish that I had never found out! The truth literally broke my heart!

Blindsided lechery is truly a bummer!*


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## sancheharri (Mar 30, 2017)

adegirl2016 said:


> What kind of details did you ask about with the affair? For some reason I am wanting to know everything... literally everything. What exactly they did ... is that weird? I am probably just torturing myself and I'm sure he wouldn't tell the truth anyway. Is knowing everything about the sexual encounter important?


i think most BS want to know EVERYTHING about the affair, but you are CORRECT that you are just TORTURING YOURSELF and he will NEVER TELL the WHOLE TRUTH. 

even if your WS tells you "some details" about the affair, would you really believe it after he lied and consciously betrayed you?

at present, it may seem important to know every detail about the sexual encounter but you'll eventually realize that the MOST IMPORTANT thing is your SELF-PRESERVATION...to focus on yourself and recovery.

IMHO, LET IT GO...your WS will NEVER tell you the whole truth and every detail of of the affair.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

adegirl2016 said:


> I don't know why. It's not really that great. I don't feel any passion during it and it just makes it an unpleasant experience.





adegirl2016 said:


> I can understand that. I am pretty sure knowing details would ruin our sex life but I feel a need to know. Sometimes I feel like my subconscious is talking myself out of the marriage.



Suffice it to say your old man probably did everything with her he does, or desires to do, with you. Face it Adegirl, by your own admission you sex life is in the toilet so knowing the details may just show you what its like for a woman that enjoys making love to a man and how you come in a distant second in that department. I'd tell you to let a sleeping dog lie but with your "its an unpleasant experience", he will continue to crave a more sexual woman than you, albeit he may just be a dud in the sack himself (the reason you're not that into it). He may come back to Kansas but he ain't gonna forget about Oz and will return if given a chance. Sometimes we just marry the wrong person. This is one of those times.
My recommendation is to quit pretending your marriage is satisfactory and rid yourselves of each other.


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## JayOwen (Oct 26, 2016)

adegirl2016 said:


> What kind of details did you ask about with the affair? For some reason I am wanting to know everything... literally everything. What exactly they did ... is that weird?


If it is then we're weird together. My questioning was EXHAUSTIVE. I wanted to know everything, where they went, what they talked about while texting, hanging out, laying next to each other after sex.

Early on I asked about sexual details, I got enough to assuage my ego (probably lies, but I'll go with the idea that he was a half-nutless minute man). I did ask details about specific acts, probably self-torture but I feel like I got a sense of "okay, so this is what you were willing to do for him -- now I see the level of infatuation/desire to please."

For me it didn't make the mind-movies worse, they're were already awful. But it DID help me for this reason: this was during a period where she was trying to minimize her feelings for him. I wanted the truth. For example, if she was telling me it was just physical, but the sex wasn't great then I was left to wonder why she kept going back? LIGHTBULB MOMENT: because it WASN'T just about sex, was it? She was falling in love with him. It was about a desire to please.

These kinds of "reading between the lines" are why I became addicted to the questions for about six months after the affair. And I think it's a very valid reason for questions, even if they spark more questions it's because you didn't know how deep the rabbit hole was.

Eventually I had a better sense of the day to day timeline then she did. Although, to this day, there remains a few forgotten facts coupled with her "inability" to remember. Maybe she doesn't, I don't believe it. But that in itself has become a useful exercise. I see where her limits are, where she will still put up the wall to "protect" me (aka protecting herself from shame). It's good for me to see this, because otherwise I might feel like she is being an open book. She's a 90% open book. And that's significant information to have. It helps me quantify my doubts.

So despite the pain of the realizations (the defiled family car, the drop-of-the-hat BJs, etc) I wouldn't trade those revelations for anything. Truth over ignorance any day.

It's a way to process what's happened. It may not be healthy, but if I find I can't handle the answers -- that's an answer in and of itself.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

adegirl2016 said:


> What kind of details did you ask about with the affair? For some reason I am wanting to know everything... literally everything. What exactly they did ... is that weird? I am probably just torturing myself and I'm sure he wouldn't tell the truth anyway. Is knowing everything about the sexual encounter important?


I'm exactly like you. I want to know everything.
Because that shows that she is honest about the things she's done and is remorseful.
I didn't get the details until years later. Still may never know.
She's sticking to the story that she never gave the last 2 oral sex....
I think every BS has problems with sex after the affair.
Having the WS orate the details brings awareness to their destructive behavior.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

Let me please explain... I love sex. And am very adventurous. I would say he has been addicted to porn in the past and sucks in bed himself. He is a selfish lover and I give give give. I no longer feel a need to be excited and give give after his affair.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

I find it absurd you assume I am the reason for the sucky sex life. This is the only sexual relationship I have EVER had that was this disfunctional.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Again, my recommendation is to quit pretending your marriage is satisfactory and rid yourselves of each other. If you've been with this cat a while who apparently is not into putting your pleasure first and foremost, you either don't know or forgot what you're missing. Find a man who finds pleasing you an exquisite pleasure in and of itself. For me, ain't nothing compares to watching a ladies face flush and the veins in her forehead engorge with blood as she "gets there".


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Have him write a timeline of the A.

if you can't continue, see an attorney about divorce.

It is haunting what mind games will do to you. the mind games were worse than the A.

After I found out about one husband that caught his wife between two men, before he filed for D, I started thinking that she might have had a threesome.

Glad that supposedly she did not.

If you need to know, you need to know.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

I went back and read your sitch from beginning to end. You are wasting precious time on a marriage that is going to go no where but down in the dumps. You married a not marriage material person. Sorry, but I can't really call him a man. I appreciate men and know that yours is a sorry excuse of one. 

I know it's your life, but do you really want to waste it on this mistake? What penance are you paying? You deserved better since the beginning. I know you have two kids with this person, but you don't have to stay married to your kids' father. In fact, you shouldn't. 

You picked wrong plain and simple. His affair, his selfishness, his whole demeanor has shown you this. Let him go!


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

I don't know why it's hard to let go. I wish I would have just kicked him out in the beginning but now I feel stuck. I guess i just wish he would do the work to reconcile. He says he is but not to my standards. 
Sometimes I wonder if I even know what I want. Sometimes I feel crazy! Or maybe like a previous poster said, I am so used to him that I don't know any better.


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## JayOwen (Oct 26, 2016)

adegirl2016 said:


> I don't know why it's hard to let go. I wish I would have just kicked him out in the beginning but now I feel stuck. I guess i just wish he would do the work to reconcile. He says he is but not to my standards.
> Sometimes I wonder if I even know what I want. Sometimes I feel crazy! Or maybe like a previous poster said, I am so used to him that I don't know any better.


I often feel exactly the same way -- you're not alone.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

If he's anything like you say in the sack, why sweat it; the other chick is probably as unfulfilled as you. You may want to give some thought to shopping around a bit while making up your mind. You'll know more about what direction to take if you have something to compare it to. You may find out the grass really is greener elsewhere. A skilled and caring man may do wonders for the quality of your life.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

Well the first time we had sex it was great. The first ... maybe 5 times were good. I imagine he put on a show for her too. Apparently it only happened once.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

My husband told me that he had sex when his so called friend 3 times before he met me and each time it was awful.

OK, so he doesn't find her attractive, nor good in bed and she's rude to him.

You always have to dig deeper.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

adegirl2016 said:


> Well the first time we had sex it was great. The first ... maybe 5 times were good. I imagine he put on a show for her too. Apparently it only happened once.


Why do you want to continue down that path when there a many guys that can fill your nights, and days, with ecstasy. He ain't up to the task and its unlikely he'll go from an unsatisfactory lover to a world class one and you'll be right where you are now 5-10 years down the road. Look around a little. His affair gives you a get out of jail free card and you can keep him on standby (plan B or lower) while you check things out. Its his fault, not yours, he don't have it in him to please you.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

adegirl2016 said:


> Let me please explain... I love sex. And am very adventurous. I would say he has been addicted to porn in the past and sucks in bed himself. He is a selfish lover and I give give give. I no longer feel a need to be excited and give give after his affair.





adegirl2016 said:


> I don't know why it's hard to let go. I wish I would have just kicked him out in the beginning but now I feel stuck. I guess i just wish he would do the work to reconcile. He says he is but not to my standards.
> Sometimes I wonder if I even know what I want. Sometimes I feel crazy! Or maybe like a previous poster said, I am so used to him that I don't know any better.





adegirl2016 said:


> Well the first time we had sex it was great. The first ... maybe 5 times were good. I imagine he put on a show for her too. Apparently it only happened once.


What you need to figure out is what you want in your future.

The marriage you had is over. If you and your H want to you can negotiate a new marriage with each other, but it will not be the same as the one that was destroyed by the affair. 

My recommendation is to seek some professional marriage counseling to see if the two of you want to start a new marriage together. Put your quest for affair details on hold until you have had a few marriage counseling sessions. 

If you do decide to rebuild your marriage, establish very clear boundaries so that he will never cheat on you again.

There was a comment about your subconscious working to end the marriage. That might indeed be true. If it is then bring it up with the marriage counselor as affirmations, self-hypnosis, etc are ways that you can work with your subconscious mind in changing what it believe.

Again, this should be a time for introspection and figuring out what YOU want in the future. Get some professional help.

Good luck.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

If memory serves me right, you are on reconciliation for about 8 months now right? You do seem to be getting to the point of knowing that this marriage will become a casualty of infidelity. Most are, by the way. You are 25 or 26. You have a whole life ahead of you. He is not good for you. He really never was. Start doing what some others suggested here. I don't know if you have a good IC for yourself but you need guidance into moving on with this matter. You need to be a better you and value your needs. Settling for this person is not an option. The more months pass by the more disillusioned of him you will become. You have time to find what is indeed a much better partner for you. You owe this cheating man nothing after trying to reconcile and he doesn't bother putting in enough effort. His come to Jesus moment is not long term and doesn't change a darn thing. He is still selfish in bed. That will not change. He still sucks at that and it will only get worse. 

You have a job. You finished your college. He will have to give you child support for your kids. What is it that makes you want to stay with him? Why should you stay with him? How does it benefit you? This may sound selfish; but having consideration for a cheating, selfish, lazy in bed man is NOT what he deserves from you. You come first, he doesn't do much to accomplish putting your needs first. He says he doesn't know how. That is plain BS!


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> Knowing everything about the sexual encounter important?



NO…You already know that he betrayed you in the worst way and that tells you a LOT!

If you are going to R then my recommendation would be to only get information as to why he did it and tell him what you expect. Then you can watch his actions and then base your decision on his ACTIONS and not his words. If you are going to go forth with the R then you DO NOT need to know the gory details of the sex. In fact you do not need the details if you are going to put him out of your life…*Leave the gory details out because your emotional health is much more important than satisfying your curiosity about sex details that will do a lot more harm to you than good.* I know wanting to know the sex details is tempting but it is like the month drawn to the flame.

*Right now I would suggest that you spend much more time getting good information and facts so you can determine if you are better off with him or without him*. Satisfying your interest in gory sex details will add more trauma to your emotions and will accomplish little to nothing. In addition, it will take away your time and effort in getting to a decision that is best for YOU!


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## sancheharri (Mar 30, 2017)

JayOwen said:


> For me it didn't make the mind-movies worse, they're were already awful. But it DID help me for this reason: this was during a period where she was trying to minimize her feelings for him. I wanted the truth. For example, if she was telling me it was just physical, but the sex wasn't great then I was left to wonder why she kept going back? LIGHTBULB MOMENT: because it WASN'T just about sex, was it? She was falling in love with him. It was about a desire to please.


yes, the same thing in my case. i think it's normal for a BS to be "obsessed" with the details, but it's more likely to add more pain and confusion (especially if the WS will trickle-truth the facts). at some point, you'll just have to read between the lines and connect the dots yourself.

i've been reading many threads in this forum regarding "knowing the details of the affair", and one thing clearly stands out - waywards will never tell the COMPLETE details and WHOLE truth. 

perhaps you can try asking your WH for details, and then you can ask for help in this forum if you get confused with whatever he tells you. that's what i did - and the kind people (especially LosingHim) in this forum helped me get a clearer picture of my WW's affair. 

whether you choose to work it out with your WH, or eventually decide to get rid of him - the sooner you LET GO of your obesession for details, the better it is for your own well-being. 

do not allow your overwhelming desire for details of the affair get you stuck. you will just torture yourself for something YOU WILL NEVER GET - the COMPLETE DETAILS and WHOLE TRUTH.

your recovery and ability to move on is COMPLETELY IN YOU HANDS.


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## JayOwen (Oct 26, 2016)

sancheharri said:


> YOU WILL NEVER GET - the COMPLETE DETAILS and WHOLE TRUTH.
> 
> your recovery and ability to move on is COMPLETELY IN YOU HANDS.


This is a great point. In a way, the ability to accept "this is all I'm going to need" seems to be a key ingredient to reconciliation. Where that threshold of "good enough" falls probably varies from person to person. Regardless, it puts an end to this stage to the satisfaction of the betrayed, and that seems like a crucial step for reconciliation.

On the other end of the spectrum, if there's not closure to this phase -- either because the cheater refuses to engage in the process or because, as in my case, the desire for details surpasses their ability (or willingness) to recount everything, then you're left with a situation where there's no closure. The former situation (little to no disclosure) is clearly toxic. But I'm starting to wonder if the latter (disclosure to a great degree but still not enough to satisfy the needs of the betrayed) is toxic on a longer time scale.

Where I would disagree with you is that I'm not sure that it's completely in your hands to choose. I'm not sure a person can decide whether or not they are in the "acceptance" or "compulsively need to know more" category. To quote Shopenhauer: "Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills." So I disagree with the idea that you can choose, and I think it could give false hope to a betrayed spouse hoping that the need for questions will go away. It either does or does not. Choice may not be a possibility.

Meaning that ultimately the questions phase may all be for naught.

That said, I think it's worth going through the process. You'll never know what you can accept until you've tried. If you're one of the ones who can eventually no longer desire more detail... well then I envy that.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

Openminded said:


> T/J
> 
> I thought of your story the other day, HB, and wondered how things were. I'm sorry to hear that it has turned out the way it has. I hope your daughters are doing well.


They are good. They are good kids. I like that you quoted Schopenhauer. I have thought about that one some. There is some truth, but it is a not the whole story.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

https://youtu.be/JB8mrh8gRI4

If I had to describe what I am looking for as a BS, this is the best description I've found. I showed him this video. If this doesn't work there is not much I can do anymore.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

adegirl2016 said:


> I find it absurd you assume I am the reason for the sucky sex life. This is the only sexual relationship I have EVER had that was this disfunctional.


Your husband must REALLY suck in bed (and NOT in a good way) if he's the only sexual partner you've ever had and you have no one else to compare him to - and he STILL comes out a loser. 

Why do you even want to reconcile with a lying cheater who clearly *doesn't even give a **** about your needs*? He brings nothing to the table.

That's one mighty BIG **** sandwich you're willing to eat just to hold onto him like grim death. For *what*, I guess only you know.

Good luck getting the details out of a liar. You'll just get a bunch of gratuitous bull**** about how it was only missionary position and it was 'boring' and 'not very good' just so he doesn't have to deal with your anger or hearing you cry. He's a selfish ass-clown whose first priority is his own ass.


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## NJ2 (Mar 22, 2017)

I recently told our MC that I was worried H was not getting closure for my A as it was 25 years ago but I only told him 2 years ago. At first he asked for basic details as to the types(no piv or oral)/frequency (not sure maybe 10 times) and where the physical intimacy took place (OM's apartment) as well as did I love OM (No), did we talk about H in a disrespectful way(never). MC said the types of questions that are may be important to note in going forward with R and understanding the state of the marriage at the time (cheating 100% on me but state of marriage shared) would be things like 

-when you were flirting with OM how did it make you feel? (young, desired, attractive, powerful
- when you were physical with OM how did it make you feel (free, selfish, like a person as opposed to someones wife /mother/daughter/ sister/ in law...
-what was the most important emotional need was OM fulfilling- he made me feel "seen" as opposed to invisible, interesting as opposed to boring, funny as opposed to stupid


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

lol I said he was the only sexual partner that I am not satisfied with.
I have had a normal sex life in the past. I am just saying I don't feel like this is all 100 percent my fault.


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## JayOwen (Oct 26, 2016)

NJ2 said:


> MC said the types of questions that are may be important to note in going forward with R and understanding the state of the marriage at the time (cheating 100% on me but state of marriage shared)


I understand this is not necessarily coming from you but I have to say I loathe this type of advice from marriage counselors. I understand it's probably the best they can offer to get both spouses in the room and working (otherwise it ends up being a pile on) but it's really stupid advice.

If you have a kitchen table and the husband doesn't like how it looks out of date and the wife is tired of the scratches in the surface and then one or the other decides to set it on fire the appropriate advice would not be "okay, well, we BOTH had unhappiness with the table so let's focus on that."

No. The issue at that point in time is why someone who has a problem with the table sees setting it on fire as a reasonable course of action.

Issues in marriage are good to work out. But only once (or rather IF) the "setting on fire" of the marriage can be worked through first. What needs to be fixed is why cheating was seen as an acceptable course of action. I wouldn't be surprised if your husband is resentful or not fully on board with the MC until that phase has been worked through.

This is why I've given up on marriage counseling. I may go back to guide us through an amicable divorce, but not for anything else. They just can't get at the heart of the issue.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

You need to know the basics:

How many times they were intimate with someone (estimate for god's sake if the frequency is huge)

Was any of it unprotected? Risk of exposure to STDs is a very real thing to worry about. 

Was the person in love?

Did anyone get pregnant?

I have a throat cancer because my cheating ex-wife exposed me to HPV since she didn't bother to use protection while cheating for an extended period of time.

So whether or not you leave your cheating spouse, please get tested for every STD you can think of and deal with that first. Protect your physical health as best that you can.

Everything else? Comes second.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

You could always make contact with the AP and ask them for the details.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

She has never replied to any of my questions. Ever. I think she blocked mine and my husbands phone number. She never replied to him when he called and left a message saying he made a mistake and not to contact again.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Is she married? Maybe her H can get her to speak.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

Nope. Single 20 year old who apprenty had just broken up with her boyfriend at the time.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

I get where you are. When I found out my ex cheated with the local drunk fireman,
I asked her "how was it?" All I got was just an 'it was ok."

I wanted a lot more than that, and even though that ship has long sailed I still occasion wonder.

I think most people here are right, it does no good. Even worse than no good, but darn it, I sure want to know all 
Sordid details too. Still.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Imagine the worst: oral, anal, 3-way, period, public place, etc. Reality most likely was not that bad, but if you really want to know there is the nuclear option, but even then you would need confirmation by the other party.

I used threats to expose to spouses, adult children, and business contacts to elicit truthful responses from my fWW's partners. Of course I am a former federal investigator and a silver-tongue devil.


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## Pepe1970 (Aug 25, 2017)

*Ok look. This is just my personal experience, not everybody would do the same of cour*



adegirl2016 said:


> What kind of details did you ask about with the affair? For some reason I am wanting to know everything... literally everything. What exactly they did ... is that weird? I am probably just torturing myself and I'm sure he wouldn't tell the truth anyway. Is knowing everything about the sexual encounter important?


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Sometimes certain people feel like they have to know what happened in order to see the full picture.

It is an individual decision.

I had to know everything. There is a letter called Joseph's letter. Read it and see if that helps and it could help to get the conversation going to get the answers that you want.

Good luck, but sometimes the mind movies are worse than the reality.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

adegirl2016 said:


> Oh and I can't seem to even enjoy sex anymore bc I all I can think about is him with her. It's terrible.


Then DUMP him and have sex with a real man, not the loser scumbag you are trying to "R" with who decided you aren't worth staying faithful to. 

Problem solved.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

adegirl2016 said:


> Oh and I can't seem to even enjoy sex anymore bc I all I can think about is him with her. It's terrible.


I would think that would be completely expected and normal. Having an affair is one of the quickest and surest ways for someone to completely lose all trust, respect, esteem desire etc for their cheating partner. 

Many people feel that their WS and their very relationship is now tainted and repulsive to them. 

Having their BS lose all respect, desire and esteem for them is one of the many risks the cheaters take when they hook up with someone else. 

It is completely unrealistic to expect that someone would still want to be intimate with the person who cheated on them.


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