# An update on a very long journey..........



## inamessIconfess (Apr 2, 2012)

Hi all,
Well I thought it about time I put some sort of an update on the site if for no other reason than to give me an opportunity to share my experience and write down what is happening...

Original thread is here for those interested or who were good enough to post on it...http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/43163-i-dont-know-what-do.html


Time has passed, much has happened....


I am still living alone in the marital home
My wife and daughter are living in a new place now not too far away.
We are still talking about reconciliation on a daily basis
I am struggling to trust her.
I am struggling with intimacy or even to be attracted to her if I am honest.
She is piling on the pressure, it just makes me resist even more!
We don't fight any more, things are calmer.
OM is out of the picture almost 100% I believe.

In a nut shell this is it.......

If I take her back it might work, I may become more attracted to her again, she has certainly lost weight and seems happier and more stable.

If I take her back I lose all the high ground I have fought so hard for and she will never move out of this house again. If it works out then great.......If it does not however then I will be facing financial hardship if not ruin, as she is not in a position to buy me out.


I hope all you guys are well any way, as always I throw myself at your mercy and I am happy to hear any feedback or advice.

As before I am still in Turmoil, but coping with it quite well, it is just not fair on her to keep this dragging on... 

Cheers
J


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## inamessIconfess (Apr 2, 2012)

Hi guys,
I went to see a relationship councillor on my own yesterday, she listened a lot and made small amount of comment but perhaps I had higher hopes than were realistic about how I would feel after talking, not really sure it helped at all? 

Probably going round to see W tonight, I feel another big storm brewing 

J


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Yikes. This does not sound like a workable R. How can you commit to a relationship under these circumstances? I commend you for even considering one, I haven't been able to do that. Can you put this on hold any longer? Maybe time will allow you to find the path you should take. Cyber-hugs.


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## inamessIconfess (Apr 2, 2012)

Cheers Pluto, "Yikes" is indeed the word, this has been the worst year of my life.

We talked again last night, the usual anger came out at the prospect of rejection, I am used to it now and have no issues telling her exactly how I feel about it.

We discussed the obvious Xmas issues and came to an agreement that she would come and stay back with me for Xmas Eve, Xmas Day and boxing day (we have things planned with the daughter anyway). Two nights of having her living back with me, I hope this tells me all I need to know about whether it will or will not work in the long run.

This may be a mistake I don't know but it is Xmas and good things happen at Xmas...right?

Cheers
J


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

hi ya j.
how are you mate , been a tough old road by the sound of it and l really admire you and wish you lots of good things.
l hope they happen during christmas too , mines not looking too flash right now that's for sure.
my wife who moved out 8 wks ago , with my 11y daughter , just text me and suggested we all have a feast here christmas eve for my daughter. at the house here. l'm still there you see.
i'm very weird on the idea , l have too much anger at her still , not sure if l can fake it for a night with my daughter around.
or how she could expect to come back to our home , our old kitchen , and act like nothings happened. 
l'm still getting my head around it and haven't gotten back to her yet.
but you say you guys are gonna take a few vdays , must be hard . but then the om's of the scene and she wants you back so it's a different game l guess. wish i could say the same 

j you can take a lot from yourself to be proud of in the way that she's grovelling back - how cool , doesn't mean you have to take her but she is. that's great for you.
and that the tables have turned and your in the drivers seat, glory to ya j , glory to ya. you've earn't it and get the last laugh after all that grief .
j , there's one thing that comes through strongly though about whether or not to take her back, you mightn't like it and this is just me ok so take it with a grain of salt.
but you are asking yourself , your having trouble with the decision and your uneasy about it.
for me , whenever that comes into a big decision , if l go for it 
it turns out the wrong move , every time .
even though l still fall for it to this day and have trouble , l do find if l can't make up my mind about something then it pans out to be a big no in the end.
but maybe that's just my pattern as l say but l just feel it should be an easy decision for you , calm and at ease with it.

all the very best anyway and good luck , keep us posted.


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## inamessIconfess (Apr 2, 2012)

Cheers Whitehawk, great reply 

I feel for you bro, really do, I am almost a year at this now which I am sure is not what you want to hear at the 8 week mark, but I am stronger and better able to deal, with every day that passes.

The bit you write at the end about doubts and decisions I completely agree with and deep down I suspect we won't make it; but I have to be able to say hand on heart....I tried my best!

We did go on holiday a month back for 5 days (4 nights in separate rooms) it was ok, challenging, calm but I know she was very disappointed in the way it went. I think she expected me to just cave in and fall back in to bed with her, all is forgiven etc etc....it is not that easy though.

There is still a part of me clinging on to the happily ever after, the holidays, the good times, the life as a family unit for my daughter and for us both too, but that picture is clouded by the reality of living with her infidelity and moreover her dishonesty. :|

All the very best to you anyway

J


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

Just curious...

Why are you attempting to force yourself to want her?


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## inamessIconfess (Apr 2, 2012)

Hi HappyKaty,

"Force" is a strong word and perhaps I am painting an overly hash picture. I do have genuine love for her, we have been together for 14 years, I am just struggling with intimacy and trust (Big things I know!).

I have asked myself where we would be if we did not have our daughter and I'm not sure, but I suspect that we would be done already. We are forced to still be in regular contact, as a result of contact etc, and that has endured throughout so there has been no real opportunity to walk away really?

Merry Xmas

J


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

Merry Christmas to you, as well.

What are your terms for reconciliation?


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## inamessIconfess (Apr 2, 2012)

Mmm, tricky one...

I haven't given a list as such because that would just open up a can of worms, i.e. "I've done 1, 2 and 3 but you didn't mention 4!"

Basically...... Loyalty, Honesty, Respect & Love

I would like to see her mend some bridges with some of our friends but that is not a major issue I guess.

Why do you ask?

J


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

She was unfaithful. 

There must be terms for R, and you have to set boundaries.

For starters, there needs to be a written "no-contact" letter to posOM.


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## inamessIconfess (Apr 2, 2012)

Hmmm....:scratchhead:

A little difficult as OM keep his horses at the same stables as W 

It sure is a mess and it would be easier in some ways to walk away.

J


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

My ex and I reconciled three times, with no boundaries.

Notice the second word in that first sentence.

It never works if you don't set boundaries.

And, sometimes, even then, it doesn't work.

Before you can attempt R, he HAS to be out of the picture.

You know that, yeah?


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## inamessIconfess (Apr 2, 2012)

"Three" times, wow, that must have been very hard  Can I ask what time scales were involved from start to finish? Roughly?

That is the one thing I absolutely DO know in all of this. That is the reason I have forced her to first move in with her mother and then to move into her own place. All the while I have been watching her very closely and monitoring how much she actually is "Over" him and "Moving on" etc. It is only in the last few weeks I have started to see real evidence that she actually has him out of her system.....

Still being careful though 

Cheers
J


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

Three times, in three years.

Basically, it was me trying to put together a puzzle that never would've fit.

Regardless, though, I never demanded stipulations or terms.

That results in a recurrent cycle.

Every. Single. Time.

You must have the written no-contact letter.

You need MC.

You have to be okay with taking back someone that cheated on you.


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## inamessIconfess (Apr 2, 2012)

Wow that sounds bad, if I am still going through this s*** in three years I swear I'll lose it!

Dare I say it is different for a girl/woman? I mean are husbands more likely to re-offend than wives? Genuine question.

One thing she has suggested, which I have not yet taken her up on, is that she will sign an agreement that if it does not work out after moving back in, she will move out again and find her own place. I guess that gives some credibility to her desire, that or desperation?!

J


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

No. 

Based on this forum, alone, women are more likely to re-offend.

Don't take an "agreement".

Sweetie, she stepped outside of your marriage.

That is the ultimate fail.

You are better than that.

I know your reasons for staying, but really...

What do you get out of this?


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## inamessIconfess (Apr 2, 2012)

"What do I get out of this?" - Good question, and here goes, honestly and straight off the top of my head.....


Financial stability
Full and complete access to my daughter
Some return to normality
Years of wondering where she is and what she is doing, most likely.
I get to keep my house
Family stuff like holidays and Xmas
Hopefully a loyal and faithful wife

I do hear you, I guess I just want to be sure before I drop the bomb and who wants to break up at Xmas??

J


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Katy is absolutely correct. You need to know what your terms for reconciliation are.

You get the above out of it IF it works out. It does not magically work out though. You need to know what you are ok and not ok with happening for a R.

#1 is the posOM has to be absolutely out of the picture. She will need to move stables, if she has to. It does not matter. She can have NO contact at all with him.


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## inamessIconfess (Apr 2, 2012)

Yeah zero contact with OM has been something I have pushed for and monitored closely all along, that does appear to be happening now finally, is it too little too late though, perhaps?

Can someone tell me what "posOM" means please? 

Cheers
J


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

PosOM = Piece of "crap" other man.

Inamess,

Take a look at your reasons, again.

Do you need your wife to fulfill those desires? 

"Normalcy" is what so many of us hang on to, when, in fact, nothing about are lives are normal.

Especially when infidelity is concerned.

Think about what YOU want and not what makes you feel normal.

From experience, I can tell you, something that appears to be, can be completely deceiving.

By the way, no one wants to "break up" on a holiday, but is there ever a good time?


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## StephenG (Nov 22, 2012)

Many times our definition of normal isn't in fact correct, it's rather a "routine". When my wife left I believe that is what took a great deal on me.

For years you are used to seeing that person and talking to that person everyday and in one day it just suddenly stops, not gradually, not over time, just abruptly. 


When/if you make a new "routine" for yourself, your definition of "normal" will change as you change it.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

Hermes said:


> Katy is absolutely correct. You need to know what your terms for reconciliation are.
> 
> You get the above out of it IF it works out. It does not magically work out though. You need to know what you are ok and not ok with happening for a R.
> 
> *#1 is the posOM has to be absolutely out of the picture. She will need to move stables, if she has to. It does not matter. She can have NO contact at all with him.*


:iagree:

posOM = Piece of sh!t Other Man

I was in R for 5 years. I don't want to say it was false, but I know we did not R under the right terms. This was before TAM and any guidance on how to deal with infidelity correctly.

The posOM HAS TO BE OUT OF THE PICTURE COMPLETELY!! She has to move her horses. No contact. Period.

You need to set the boundaries on how you want to R. You make the calls. Not her. She is a cheater and should be grateful that you are even giving her the possibility of getting back together with you. She needs to start doing some heavy lifting in order to try to win back your trust.

Just know, if you do get back together, the marriage as you have known it is OVER. There are going to be new rules, restrictions and you can never trust blindly again. You will always need to "trust but verify". 

Are you ready for all of that? But more importantly, will your WW step up to the plate to make R possible for you?

Please listen to the people who have been through similar situations. I wish you luck.


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## inamessIconfess (Apr 2, 2012)

Cheers guys, I need to hit the road home but I will reply individually later on this evening.....

You guys are great by the way 

J


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

God it's so tough , but j hey , I'd just kill to have her grovelling back 
satisfaction , nice !

I really feel for ya j , sorta glad that one's not being asked of me right now , just wouldn't know what to do.
yeah i dunno , personally I reckon anyone he or she can be just as likely or unlikely . think to it all depends on the why's .
my stuff was pretty clear like that so if that happened with us i think i could read it bc there was one very loud and clear reason . not to say it was f'g justified but that was loud and clear.

i don't think your pushing yourself at all j , god who wouldn't be asking themselves all this stuff and deep down wish it could be different.l reckon we all would especially with a family
l'd kill for it in lots of ways for all the family reasons and for what we were and had .
got a feeling though l'll never get the question , mine is still so strongly of the rails , l don't know her now .
she told me it's not like that at all but it's just that it is the hardest thing she's ever ever done so she has this wall and face built up to cope .
thanks for your support to j , yea not looking forward to the road ahead it's been my worst nightmare but what can ya do when kids are involved. can't believe I was stupid enough to get caught up in this bs.

friend of mine told me they got back together 5 times , gotta be a record :scratchhead: so there ya go we can all feel better cause that one would take some beating hey.


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## inamessIconfess (Apr 2, 2012)

Whitehawk, 

The 180 is the way. There is no better way to deal with things in my opinion. Nothing seems to be as attractive to a wayward spouse than their other half becoming disinterested and indifferent to their communication. In some ways I wish she had not come back, that way I would have not had to make any difficult choices and would have been able to start really getting on with my life, be careful what you wish for!

vi_bride04

I think she is willing to do pretty much whatever at this point to get back the life she had. That could mean the house, it could mean me, who knows for sure? Also she wants back that life that she was so quick to turn her back on, so clearly for it to work something must change too!


HappyKaty

You are right of course, I am hanging on to what was normality and also avoiding the almost certain s*** storm that will come with absolutely saying no to my WW, (starts singing Taylor Swift song in head...We are never, never, never, getting back together....).
Trust me when I say that I am being very careful and that I am not going to sign off on this R until I am 100% certain it is the right thing for ALL of us. We are talking and spending time together, I WILL NOT BE RUSHED into anything, no matter what form the emotional blackmail takes.
And as for the list of things I get out of R, you are right, I could get them on my own or with another, I do know that I guess. It would be a shame to take the easy way out after what has happened this year, time will tell I guess.......


Well guys, I sincerely hope you all have a great Xmas and really, thanks to all of you, the advice on here is superb and I feel for so many others who have gone through or are going through this sort of stuff, stay strong, life is too short for misery!

All the best 
J


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## inamessIconfess (Apr 2, 2012)

Hi guys,

Hope the Xmas hangovers aren't too heavy 

WW has just left with my daughter and headed back to her flat after spending 3 nights here.



I went ok ish
There was no intamacy
We talked a lot
We argued some
I don't think we are much further forward
I HAVE to make a decision, it is kiling her being in limbo waiting for me to make a decision.


So what to do?
I simply must make a choice even though I am uncertain which way to turn. I am terrified of making the wrong choice but so much hangs on my actions in these coming days I can't even put it in words.


Decisions, decisions, decisions...................


All the best
J


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

inamessIconfess said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Hope the Xmas hangovers aren't too heavy
> 
> ...


You don't have to make a decision about sh!t until you are good and ready. 

Who cares if she suffering being in limbo? She is the WS, she has no right to say when a decision needs to be made. If she is pressuring you, she is just trying to move past it with as little consequences as possible.

Take as much time as you need with this. Its a huge decision, no matter what you decide.


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## NotEZ (Sep 23, 2012)

:iagree: Agreed 100%. SHE stepped out of this marriage, not you. This "limbo" she is in, is a consequence of HER actions. If she doesn't want to deal with that, she can move on.


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

vi_bride04 said:


> You don't have to make a decision about sh!t until you are good and ready.
> 
> Who cares if she suffering being in limbo? She is the WS, she has no right to say when a decision needs to be made. If she is pressuring you, she is just trying to move past it with as little consequences as possible.
> 
> Take as much time as you need with this. Its a huge decision, no matter what you decide.


yep , take your damn time j . fk that she has to wait out the consequences of her own crap.
hate to make it sound like pressure but it's a biggie so you do as "you" need to .


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## inamessIconfess (Apr 2, 2012)

Cheers guys, I know this to be true, watch this space.....

J


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## inamessIconfess (Apr 2, 2012)

I have a question.......

*How important is the physical attraction in a relationship/marriage? :scratchhead:
*
When I see an attractive girl, that instant stomach turn thing happens, I get this sometimes and do find quite a lot of women attractive, I do very much know what I like physically.

I don't currently get this with my wife who is currently separated from me. What I don't know is how important this is in the big scheme of things? Is a marriage/relationship even possible with this missing? I am unsure if it will come back in time but it seems to be a big sticking point at the moment.

Emotionally I am still very much involved with her, I find myself deeply upset when she is upset and try so hard not to do things that make her sad but is it enough?

I'd appreciate your thoughts as always.

Happy New Year to all
J


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## inamessIconfess (Apr 2, 2012)

Hi all,

I've just had a very long and stressful weekend, W is at her wits end with her current living arrangements with our daughter and is pushing me very hard to make a decision one way or the other.

It really is unfair of me to keep dragging this out and having her live in limbo, not knowing whether I will accept her back or reject her and move on.

The trouble is I am still incapable of making a decision, perhaps that in itself speaks volumes, I honestly do not know. :scratchhead:

If I ask her to move back in Pros


Financial stability
Things become much easier with our daughter and her schooling arrangements
Perhaps we can be happy together, certainly she has learnt her lesson and vows to be a better wife
Some normality and structure will be recovered
Stability for our daughter and happiness at having both of her parents around all the time

If I ask her to move back in Cons


I lose the high ground I have fought for in relation to our house
I am opening myself up to more hurt possibly
I would need to commit to the relationship for good, come what may
I don't get to look around and find someone I am attracted to
I am back to being her emotional support once again


If I walk away Pros


Freedom
Some financial stability but hard times for sure
Get to look for someone who I am attracted to and who perhaps I can trust
I don't have to deal with supporting W anymore


If I walk away Cons


Turmoil
Upset
Anger
I have to deal with hurting W which is something I hate doing
All the cons associated with separation regarding my daughter etc


This is so hard but I must make a decision, will the physical attraction return, am I kidding myself in thinking this? It seems like a really big thing but is it?

Cheers
J

:scratchhead::scratchhead:


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## zappy88200 (Dec 6, 2012)

I can relate so much to you brother.

Zappy


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## Po12345 (Apr 28, 2011)

I know what it is like. My wife told me two years ago she was unhappy and didn't know if she loved me. Found out shortly thereafter that she had gone to see an ex flame from 12 years before. 

Tried to work on things for 2 years, thought it was ME that needed fixing, thought things were finally getting better and she reoffended dec 15th 2012, visited the guy in Toronto after scheduling a layover there, destroyed everything and sent me spiraling once again. 

The worst part in all of this was losing sight of any goals I ever had, instead getting wrapped up in beliving I could fix her, by paying for her schooling, by buying her a car, by doing all sorts of stuff... 

in the end she said she checked out 2 years ago, basically all the counseling did nothing, she never attempted to go "no contact" with the other man, and she admits even today that she "Cares very deeply for him". 

I told the other man's wife though, to which my wife said "how dare you drag more people into our problems" and I said point blank "You dragged them both in when you went to see him, TWICE".


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## inamessIconfess (Apr 2, 2012)

Po,
Sounds like you have a good handle on things, I hope it serves you well and that you find a way through the mess...

My life was so much easier, in a sort of funny way, when W walked away. The decision was made for me and all I had to do was cope.....I coped ok. 
It only got hard when she did the about face and started talking about coming back.
Now she is sure of what she wants and she wants back into my emotions. If only I could get past the physical attraction and intimacy gap it might just be possible too. It is a big thing though I suspect......

Cheers guys anyway
J


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

inamessIconfess said:


> I have a question.......
> 
> *How important is the physical attraction in a relationship/marriage? :scratchhead:
> *
> ...


hey j , happy new yr .

i stress just me again here but the attraction thing made a hell of a mess for me. my problem is i am a very horny guy and i do love a nice looking girl.
my wifey was a real babe when i met her but in 18 yrs she just really let herself go. it was such a shame to because she would still be a great looking girl if only she lost a bit of weight . her taste in clothes went to **** to , and i use to love the way she dressed earlier.
you know call me a shallow bastard but all this really did start to effect me after 4 or 5 yrs of it. to top it off she'd always swore she'd never end up one of those girls. but she did and wouldn't do a thing about it.
she started diets but always caved.
it also made me feel like she didn't care enough to keep herself looking nice for me.
she didn't carry weight very well either especially with her clothes sense dropping away. it really did effect me a lot.

but i can say one thing , i still loved her a lot though and in ways it didn't matter , i still wanted to hold her and cuddle and sex it up because l felt that way about her , she was still cute to me. 
but with all our other hassles going on , at the same time i could say it actually split us up in a way.
because through all those problem yrs and stress , the fact that she wasn't looking too good either made me even more distant and that caused the big stuff.

or somem like that :scratchhead:


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## inamessIconfess (Apr 2, 2012)

Whtehawk,

Makes perfect sense to me and in fact I could have written it!

So we have established that our stories are similar, and that both of our spouses let themselves go, here is the question though...

*Do I tell her that she is unattractive to me now and that it would help if she lost some weight and took a bit of pride in her appearance?*

*Is that a conversation that can be had, will it do more harm than good?*

For what it is worth, I don't think it is shallow to know what you like, just honest.

There in lies the dilemma...

Cheers
J


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

inamessIconfess said:


> Whtehawk,
> 
> Makes perfect sense to me and in fact I could have written it!
> 
> ...


thanks j .
but oh man , we better ask the girls about this one . that stuff got me into soooo much trouble.
and it all got twisted round into i don't love her , she is attractive ra ra , got pretty messy and nothing i said or did fixed it either,

we'll ask the girls .


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## inamessIconfess (Apr 2, 2012)

Wise words Whitehawk, wise words!

Cheers
J


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## inamessIconfess (Apr 2, 2012)

Any girls on the forum that want to comment on the above questions? It most definitely needs a woman's perspective I think!

Cheers
J


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## inamessIconfess (Apr 2, 2012)

Hi guys,

Looks like the time has come to make a choice, my wife tells me she cannot go on any more and needs more from me by way of affection. 

We are still living apart and seeing one another but there is little in the way of intimacy other than hugs and short kisses.

I understand her frustration, I just don't seem to be able to open up to her after al that has happened. The concerning thing is I do look at other woman and find them attractive, I just can't seem to see her this way.

We both stand to lose a lot financially, not to mention our 3 year old daughter and all the complexities of access, maintenance and school etc

If I want to stop this happening, I must make a commitment and show more, I so wish I knew what the right thing to do was??

Maybe I should just walk, it's almost a year now since the day I outed her affair, it seems like an eternity, certainly the longest year of my life 

Thoughts?

Cheers
J


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

Only you can answer this question. From what I have read you sound like you are on the done side to me.


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## thisSux (Jan 8, 2013)

For me there has never been an infidelity issue but my trust in my w has been shattered in other ways, for me this has led me to build emotional walls which have now been up for a very long time, i know i still love her but my walls are there to protect me from her actions. I think you have done something similar and only you will know if you can lower all the emotional barriers and allow yourself to feel the need for intimacy, trust and love with her, if you cant then you need to move on for your own sake


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## K.C. (Dec 1, 2012)

Depends on why you cant see her that way I guess?

If you are emotionally done for sure then that would be that I guess. if it is a trust and fear of repeat thing then that is harder to answer.

Only thing for sure, staying with it as it is easier or better financialy is not worth even cosidering.


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## inamessIconfess (Apr 2, 2012)

Cheers guys the fragile peace continues, think I am going to quietly start making exit plans so I have the necessary funds etc if and when the time comes.........

J


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