# Time to move on?



## Edward333

First time poster here...

Quick background: I'm male, 47 yrs old, married 12 years, no children, 2 dogs. 

My wife and I have a lot in common, but have very different personalities...I'm an eternal optimist and deal with life's challenges with a positive attitude. My wife tends to get stressed out over things very easily and pushes them onto me to deal with...

Anyway, my wife has had a somewhat bullying and controlling personality most of our marriage which I've tolerated and possibly enabled over the years. She recently (last 18 months or so) became physically abusive/destructive during our arguments, but has gotten better recently (past 3-4 months) because I think she senses that I'm becoming "distant". In the past 18 months, on two different occasions during an argument, she has started punching me and destroying things in my office in retaliation for me standing up for myself and not giving in to her bullying. The second time, she broke 2 of my guitars, a lamp, a neon sign, and gave me a bloody lip and left a visible bruise on my right cheek. In the heat of anger, she also motioned to try to get into my gun safe, but I had changed the combo and she was unsuccessful. (Note: I've been documenting her behavior over the past 18 months with photos, notes, etc.)

At that time, she was unemployed, but has since started working again and making a decent salary (68k/yr). I have a stable job and make a good living (122K/yr)

I'm very unhappy and considering breaking free of this situation and starting over. The tough part is deciding on when/how to do this. 

Our two dogs are amazing and are like our kids and I’m dreading leaving without working out some sort of visitation agreement with her. Otherwise, I would be LONG GONE by now.

The hardest part is that our friends and family have no idea what is going on and they would probably be in shock if I left her. We are going on vacation in 2 weeks to a beautiful location with 2 other couples and I’m dreading it.

Any and all feedback is greatly appreciated.


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## 3Xnocharm

You need to get out, like yesterday! There should be NO TOLERANCE for physical abuse, you should have called the police on her! Who gives a **** how shocked family and friends will be! You have no children so can make a clean, 100% break...get yourself OUT.

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## Ursula

This here, especially the bolded text, for me wouldn't even be something to think about. I would pack a bag, and a bag for the dogs, take both dogs and hightail the hell out of there. 



Edward333 said:


> The second time, she broke 2 of my guitars, a lamp, a neon sign, and gave me a bloody lip and left a visible bruise on my right cheek. In the heat of anger, *she also motioned to try to get into my gun safe, but I had changed the combo and she was unsuccessful.* (Note: I've been documenting her behavior over the past 18 months with photos, notes, etc.)


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## jb02157

I would seriously consider not going on vacation and sharing with the other couples you are going with what she's doing to you. Then I would get a restraining order against her and make her start counseling. You've got to make her start behaving like an adult and not like an adolescent. Also start the divorce papers now. Tell her if she doesn't change drastically you're dumping her.


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## Diana7

No one should ever have to put up with their partner being violent, abusive and destructive. Thank God you have kept a detailed record, honestly she could have shot and killed you. 
I would have been gone the first time it happened and taken the dogs. If she can do this to you she can do it to them. 

You have more than enough earnings to be able to find somewhere else to live while you begin the divorce. 
Its not going to change. 
I would also get a restraining order against her, you have way more than enough proof for that. You don't have to go away with her. Suggest she goes on her own and you can move out while she is there.


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## EleGirl

If you do not mind sharing, what state do you live in? I ask because this could make a difference in the responses.

Here is the exit/safety plan that I post for anyone in your type of situation. The list is geared more towards women who have little to no access to money. But I trust that you can tweak it for your situation.

Call 911 and they will help you get away.

If you are afraid your internet usage might be monitored call the national domestic violence hotline at 1 800 799 7233.

========================================

It is very hard to leave a marriage. Boy do I know that from experience. There is a way to make it easier… having a plan and having a strong support system. Just work your plan one step at a time. That way you are not look at a huge problem. Instead you are looking at small steps. 

If you search on the internet for "domestic abuse exit plan" or "domestic abuse safety plan" a lot will come up that you can look over. The one below is one that I added some things to base on my own experience.

*Get a support system: *



Find a local organization that provides counseling and help for victims of domestic abuse (emotional and physical). Get into counseling with them. They will have sliding scale counseling.


Also check into legal aid in your area.



Talk to attorneys and do research on the internet to find out your rights in divorce. Check on sites like Amazon for books about divorce in your state. Be informed. Check out legal aid in your area. Ask the domestic abuse organization if they have a list of attorneys who do pro-bono work or very low fee work and how specialize in cases of divorce with domestic abuse. Most will have such a list. Many attorneys will give a half hour free consultation. If you have a good list of questions, you can learn about your rights and how the local court system handles specific issues. You might even find an attorney that you really like.


Let a trusted family member, friend, coworker or neighbors know your situation. Develop a plan for when you need help; code words you can text if in trouble, a visual signal like a porch light: on equals no danger, off equals trouble. 
If you do not have friends of your own, start making them. Even if you don’t share your situation with them, just having a social outlet for you and even your children will help. One way to meet people is to go to www.meetup.com Search for meetup groups in your area. In most areas they have a lot of things to choose from. You just sign up and go.



*Set up a ‘safe address’ and ‘safe storage space’. *



If you have a trusted friend/family-member, ask them if you can use their address for some things and if you can store some things at their place… like a box of important papers. If you do not have someone who will help you out in this way, rent a PO Box and a small storage space. Use the ‘safe addresses for your mail. Use the ‘safe storage space’ to keep important things you will need like:


your mail from the ‘safe address’


All account info and ATM card for your personal checking account


Copies of all financial paperwork, filed tax forms, etc.


Certified copies of birth certificates, marriage license, passports, 


Car title, social security cards, credit cards, 


Citizenship documents (such as your passport, green card, etc.) 


Titles, deeds and other property information 


Medical records


Children's school and immunization records


Insurance information


Verification of social security numbers Make sure you know your husband’s Social Security Number and your son’s. 


Welfare identification


Valued pictures, jewelry or personal possessions

*Financial Plan*


Consider getting a job as soon as you can if you do not already have one. This will give you access to money and independence.


*Your safety Plan: *

You need a safety plan just in case you need to leave immediately if things get out of hand. 



Know the phone number to your local battered women's shelter. 


Keep your cell phone on you at all times for dialing 911. It’s best to dial 911. You need to establish a record of his abuse. So call 911 and start creating that record. If you think that it is not safe for you to leave, ask the 911 operator to send the police so that they can ensure your and your child’s safety when you leave.


If you are injured, go to a doctor or an emergency room and report what happened to you. Ask that they document your visit. 


Keep a journal of all violent incidences, noting dates, events and threats made. 


Keep any evidence of physical abuse, such as pictures. 


You can get a VAR (voice activated recorder) and keep it on you at all times when you are around your husband. This way you can get recordings of the abuse. 


Plan with your children and identify a safe place for them. Reassure them that their job is to stay safe, not to protect you.


If you need to sneak away, be prepared. Make a plan for how and where you will escape. 


Back your car into the driveway, and keep it fueled. Keep your driver's door unlocked and other doors locked for a quick escape. 


Hide an extra set of car keys. 


Set money aside. Open a checking account in your name only and put your paycheck (or a portion of it) in that account. Do not use the address of the home you live in with him for this checking account. Use your ”safe address” to the account and keep all of the paperwork related to the account in your “safe storage space”. 


Pack a bag. Include an extra set of keys, IDs, car title, birth certificates, social security cards, credit cards, marriage license, clothes for yourself and your children, shoes, medications, banking information, money" anything that is important to you. Store them at a trusted friend or neighbor's house. Try to avoid using the homes of next-door neighbors, close family members and mutual friends. 


Take important phone numbers of friends, relatives, doctors, schools, etc. 


Know abuser's schedule and safe times to leave. 


Be careful when reaching out for help via Internet or telephone. Erase your Internet browsing history, websites visited for resources, e-mails sent to friends/family asking for help. If you called for help, dial another number immediately after in case abuser hits redial. 


Create a false trail. Call motels, real estate agencies and schools in a town at least six hours away from where you plan to relocate.


*After Leaving the Abusive Relationship*


 *If you get a restraining order, and the offender is leaving the family home: *


Change your locks and phone number. 


Change your work hours and route taken to work. 


Change the route taken to transport children to school. 


Keep a certified copy of your restraining order with you at all times. 


Inform friends, neighbors and employers that you have a restraining order in effect. 


Give copies of the restraining order to employers, neighbors and schools along with a picture of the offender. 


Call law enforcement to enforce the order. 


 *If you leave the family home: *


Do not leave your children with your abusive spouse/partner. Take them with you. Talk to your attorney and/or the abuse organization counselors to make sure you do this in a way that will not jeopardize your future custody rights. You don’t want to look like you are kidnapping your children.


Consider renting a post office box or using the address of a friend for your mail. Be aware that addresses are on restraining orders and police reports. Be careful to whom you give your new address and phone number. 


Change your work hours, if possible. 


Alert school authorities of the situation. 


Consider changing your children's schools. 


Reschedule appointments if the offender is aware of them. 


Use different stores and frequent different social spots. 


Alert neighbors, and request that they call the police if they feel you may be in danger. 


Talk to trusted people about the violence. 


Replace wooden doors with steel or metal doors. Install security systems if possible. Install a motion sensitive lighting system. 


Tell people you work with about the situation and have your calls screened by one receptionist if possible. 


Tell people who take care of your children who can pick up your children. Explain your situation to them and provide them with a copy of the restraining order. 


Call the telephone company to request caller ID. Ask that your phone number be blocked so that if you call anyone, neither your partner nor anyone else will be able to get your new, unlisted phone number.

 
Here are some ways you can find out things about your finances and some about how you can start saving money in your own name. I’m not putting them on the open forum because I don’t want to tip off people who are abusers.

Some of this might sound crazy. But you are completely in the dark and these are ways that people I know, even I, got the info we needed so that our spouse could not rip us off in a divorce.

Check his wallet and get photographs of any cards and other info that he has in there to include his driver’s license. Make sure to save them somewhere that he cannot get to, like on the cloud.

If he has a brief case do the same thing to it. Do you have a scanner at home? If not get one. I have a small portable that’s easy to use. That’s all you need. Just scan everything in his briefcase into pdf or jpgs. And again keep that info in a cloud account.

If you do use a cloud account, make sure that it does not create an account on your PC that he could see. There is a way to prevent that.

Does he have a home office or a place at home where he works sometimes? If so search it (often). Check the trash.. (I found out all kinds of stuff about my husband by searching his trash. Like I found letters from his affair partner. That’s how I found out about one of his affairs. I also found receipts and statements showing that he was moving money that I earned into accounts and investments in his and his mother’s name. 

Another thing that you might want to try is to go through the trash from his business if you can get to it. Just snatch the bags of trash out of the trash bin into your car, take them some place where he will not see you go through it and search. I kid you not, you can find stuff.

Get a key to his car. Make one if you need to. Then search it often. Search every cranny. Again I found all kinds of info that way. My then husband was hiding papers in the well where the spare tire and tools go. When he traveled, I drove to the airport, found his car in long-term parking and searched it. He was using his car to hide things while he traveled.

Get online and order his credit report. It could lead to all kinds of info on accounts he has.

Search the court records for any law suits. If he has a business, it might have been sued and he might have had to disclose financial info. Here where I live there is a website for the state of New Mexico where we can search on a person’s name to find all court cases of any kind… to include if they were sued, arrested and charged, divorced, etc. I’m sure that New York has something similar.

If you have access to a computer that he uses, put a key stroke monitor on his computer. A very good one is Webwatcher. It captures every keystroke and takes screen shots. Then it sends the information to your account on their website. So you don’t even need to get on his computer after the software is installed. You will be able to get passwords, account numbers, etc. this way.

Make sure that you take an inventory of everything of value in your home. Take photos of everything. And do a walking inventory through the house. That way he cannot hide or dispose of things of value during a divorce.
=========================================
Now about money

Then open bank accounts in your name only. Use an address other than your home address. Also do electronic statements, etc. so that there is no paperwork for him to find. You can open a bank account with as little as $25.

If at all possible, every time you go to a store, get out cash. Even if it’s $10. I know a woman who did this. She’d get out between $40 and $60 with every purchase. It added up… to thousands over a few year period. Make sure that you throw away the receipts before you get home or keep them where he cannot find them. Do not put them in your home trash.

Go through your house and sell anything that you can. Just tell him that you are wanting to simplify your life and declutter. List things on craigslist and sell it. Put the money in your bank account.


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## barbados

ED,

I have to honestly ask you how does a 47 year old man not know that abuse like this is wrong and there is NO justification for it. 

So what that she was unemployed, or whatever reason this crazy person has to be abusive.So you are going to risk your life over 2 dogs ? REALLY ? (and I was a dog owner for over 20 years)

GET THE HELL OUT NOW !! Or next time maybe she gets a hold of one of those guns ! And report her abusive a$$ to the police. And tell your friends EXACTLY what you just told us in your OP, and forget about the vacation.


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## Buddy400

Edward333 said:


> I'm very unhappy and considering breaking free of this situation and starting over. The tough part is deciding on when/how to do this.


Soon. Very carefully


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## EleGirl

In some states, like California, you would be responsible for alimony for at least half the length of the marriage. But 10 years is considered a long-term marriage. And with a long term marriage alimony could be long term or permanent. It would a travesty if you had to pay alimony to a woman who physically abused you.

The first thing you need to do is to talk to a lawyer about your situation. You need to plan your exit very well. So do not tell her that you are looking into divorce until the day you walk out. The worst violence in a violent marriage occurs when a spouse tries to leave.

Your list of all the abuse is helpful. But without some proof of abuse over and above your written words and your photos, your notes will not count. I know this from experience.

When I filed based on the kind of evidence you have the judge said that I made it all up and had the divorce sealed. After all, if it was so bad, why did I not call 911? Why was there no police record of his violence? Well tell me, why have you not called the police on her if her attacks/violence are so bad? You need the police to have a record of her being violent.

You need stronger evidence of her abuse. In states like California, if there is abuse, it can be grounds for her not getting alimony. What I suggest is that you get a hidden camera. They be purchased hidden in light switches, electric sockets, alarm clocks, etc. Just get one or two and put them in your office if this is where she usually attacks you. Also get a voice activated recorder and keep it on your person or near you when she is in the house or in your office. 

You have to get video and/or audio of her attacking you. Then it's no longer your word against hers. Back up the video/audio files to a cloud server (or two) that she does not know about. That way she cannot delete them. Also have your cell phone near you so you can dial 911.

You need that evidence so that when you call 911, you will be able to prove that you were not the aggressor. Make sure that you do not yell, push, or do anything to antagonize her violent outbursts. You do not want to come off as a co-attacker. And make sure that she has no burses, etc. from you. Once you have video/audio of her attack, dial 911. Play the video/audio for the police if they will listen.

Sadly, the way things are today, if you call the police and have no evidence and if you do not have bruises and cuts from her attacking you, you will most likely be charged with domestic violence and arrested. So make sure you have the evidence.


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## EleGirl

How often does she go off on you like this?

If you get the evidence and she is arrested, you can get a restraining order against her. She will not be able to return to the place where you live. The two dogs will be with you.

Does she ever mistreat the dogs? I would not be surprised if she goes off on them when you are not there. How about a nanny cam too so you can see how she's actually treating the dogs?


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## Edward333

Hi all,

Thank you for all the replies so far. 

Just want to clarify a few things...my wife is not abusive all day, every day. She's can be a very sweet and loving person most of the time, but has a serious anger management problem. A couple months ago during an argument I called her out on her little incident (punching me, breaking things, trying to get into my safe, etc.) and she was flabbergasted and told me never to bring it up again. Since then, she has gotten much better and is probably scared that I'm going to leave. The problem is that she (predictably) has a major blowup about every 3 or 4 months and I have little confidence that she'll ever change.

I am not in fear for my life. She is 5'4" and I am 6'0". All guns have been removed from our home and placed in storage. 

I just want to get away from her and not let my dogs suffer. Sounds silly but true.


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## Edward333

EleGirl said:


> Does she ever mistreat the dogs? I would not be surprised if she goes off on them when you are not there. How about a nanny cam too so you can see how she's actually treating the dogs?


She adores our dogs and is very good with them and would be considered their main caretaker. She schedules the vet and prepares their food, etc.because she was working from home for several years and adopted this role. They are both males and see me as the dominant person in the home, so when I'm gone, they are very protective of my wife and our home.

I honestly believe if I took the dogs she may get suicidal or do something irrational. I'm fine if she keeps them as long as I'm part of their life, at least for a while. They're very healthy and, based on their ages, probably have about 6 or 7 more years left.

The big thing keeping me from leaving is not knowing how she'll react and the fear of her doing something irrational/unpredictable. I'm not interested in ruining her reputation or shaming her, I just want OUT.


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## *Deidre*

Um, yea. Time to move on...

No one should stay in an abusive relationship. You shouldn't stay out of fear that she will do something 'unpredictable.' You have to stop enabling her, at some point. She needs professional help if she decides to do something irrational. I know that you probably love her on some level, and it's very sad that your marriage has come to this, but you really need to get out of an abusive situation like this. Praying for you both.


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## Edward333

*Deidre* said:


> Um, yea. Time to move on...
> 
> You have to stop enabling her, at some point.


You bring up a very good point...

In addition to the behavior that I've already mentioned, she definitely has other OCD type issues going on. She is obsessed with orderliness and cleanliness in our home to the point that it's become ridiculous. We rarely have friends over and rarely cook in our kitchen for fear of "making a mess". I am not allowed to use our bathtubs in our house, we do 3 - 5 loads of laundry per day, she keeps 5 to 7 paper towel rolls out on the kitchen counter (?). If I remove 1, she replaces it.

Trust me, I'm not perfect by any means, but for a guy, I've been told I'm very neat.

Despite having two dogs, our home is immaculate. Sometimes, I feel like I live in a prison.

Catch my drift???


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## *Deidre*

Edward333 said:


> You bring up a very good point...
> 
> In addition to the behavior that I've already mentioned, she definitely has other OCD type issues going on. She is obsessed with orderliness and cleanliness in our home to the point that it's become ridiculous. We rarely have friends over and rarely cook in our kitchen for fear of "making a mess". I am not allowed to use our bathtubs in our house, we do 3 - 5 loads of laundry per day, she keeps 5 to 7 paper towel rolls out on the kitchen counter (?). If I remove 1, she replaces it.
> 
> Trust me, I'm not perfect by any means, but for a guy, I've been told I'm very neat.
> 
> Despite having two dogs, our home is immaculate. Sometimes, I feel like I live in a prison.
> 
> Catch my drift???


Yep...

You're in an abusive/toxic relationship, regardless of the reasons that she has for 'being abusive' towards you, that's what you're in.


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## happy as a clam

She sounds like she is suffering from mental illness. Extreme OCD, escalating violence, denial of her culpability ("never speak about this again")... she needs a shrink and you need to vamoose on out of there.

P.S. You're a grown man. You can use the d*mn bathtub any time you d*mn well please!


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## Almost-Done

My ex-wife hit me a few times and hard. I should had left then. You should leave now. It will only get worse. Don't be like me and think time will make it better, it will not. It will just make it worse.


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## Edward333

Just a final comment...

I have spoken to an attorney already and have started moving my personal things into a storage unit close to home.

I'm struggling however with deciding on the best way to announce my "departure". 

I go back and forth in my head between, a) writing her a letter explaining why I'm leaving to b) simply having her served and deal with the aftermath, hoping for the best/preparing for the worst.

Ugh. Keeps me up at night.


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## happy as a clam

Edward333 said:


> I go back and forth in my head between, a) writing her a letter explaining why I'm leaving to b) simply having her served and deal with the aftermath, hoping for the best/preparing for the worst.


I vote for the latter. Make a clean cut, get safely away, deal with the aftermath through legal channels including the police if necessary.

Very good that you are preparing...


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## ChipperE

Do you have a sister or mother or a close female friend? Picture one of them confiding in you what you just confided in all of us here. Youd tell her to call the police IMMEDIATELY and protect herself by getting as far away as possible from their abuser. I'm giving you the same advice. 

I know it's taboo for men to admit they are abused, but you are being physically abused. Every year "nice" "sweet" spouses with an unstable tempers lose it and murder their partners in a rage. You do not want to lose your life because you chose to roll the dice and trust that she wouldn't go over the line. 

When your wife snaps she sees red. Sue cannot control her actions as it stands now. She needs help. If it were me I'd separate until she completed an anger management program. Then I'd live separately until I knew she was changed.


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## GusPolinski

Sounds like it's way past time.


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## Edward333

Hi all,

Just checking in to say how much I appreciate everyone's comments. It just reconfirms everything I've been thinking and helps to get some objective feedback.

BTW, I've decided to go ahead with our vacation plans since things are pretty "stable" at the moment.

When we return in early March, I'll be meeting with my attorney again to come up with an "exit plan". It's a very sad situation.


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## Uptown

Edward333 said:


> My wife has had a somewhat bullying and controlling personality most of our marriage.


Edward, I agree with @*happy as a clam* that you're describing red flags for a mental disorder. Many behaviors you describe -- i.e., temper tantrums, verbal and physical abuse, controlling actions, lack of impulse control, emotional instability, and always being "The Victim" -- are some of the classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Importantly, I'm not suggesting your W has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she may exhibit moderate to strong traits of it.

I caution that BPD is a spectrum disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your W exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do. 

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits them at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot know the answer to that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as strong verbal abuse, very controlling behavior, and irrational jealousy.



> She recently (last 18 months or so) became physically abusive/destructive during our arguments.... she has started punching me and destroying things in my office... she broke 2 of my guitars, a lamp, a neon sign, and gave me a bloody lip and left a visible bruise on my right cheek. In the heat of anger, she also motioned to try to get into my gun safe.


_"Intense, inappropriate anger"_ is one of the nine defining traits for BPD. It therefore is not surprising that the _physical_ abuse of a spouse or partner has been found to be strongly associated with BPD. One of the first studies showing that link is a 1993 hospital study of spousal batterers. It found that nearly all of them have a personality disorder and half of them have BPD. See Roger Melton's summary of that study at *50% of Batterers are BPDers*. Similarly, a *2008 study* and a *2012 study* find a strong association between domestic violence and BPD. 



> She's can be a very sweet and loving person most of the time, but has a serious anger management problem.


BPDers generally are not bad people. Their problem is not being _bad_ but, rather, _unstable_. Moreover, a large share of them are very easy to fall in love with. Indeed, two of the world's most beloved women -- Marilyn Monroe and Princess Diana -- both had full-blown BPD if their biographers are correct.



> She (predictably) has a major blowup about every 3 or 4 months.


Similarly, my BPDer exW had major blowups about that frequently. In addition, there usually were minor hissy fits every several weeks.



> She definitely has other OCD type issues going on.


If she is a BPDer, that would not be surprising. A recent study of nearly 35,000 American adults found that a fourth of the female BPDers also suffer from co-occurring OCD. See Table 3 at *2008 Study in JCP*.



> Our friends and family have no idea what is going on.


If your W is a BPDer, that is to be expected. The vast majority of BPDers are very high functioning people who typically get along fine with casual friends, business associates, clients, and strangers. None of those people is close enough to the BPDer to trigger her fears of abandonment and engulfment. 

There is no close relationship to be abandoned. And there is no intimacy to trigger the suffocating feeling of engulfment (wherein she will be convinced that YOU are controlling her). Those two fears will be triggered only by the few people who draw close and try to establish a close LTR. Because they are close, they will start triggering the BPDer's fears and she will eventually push them away. This is why BPDers usually have no close long-term friends unless they live a long distance away.



> Any and all feedback is greatly appreciated.


As @*3Xnocharm* stated, _"You should get out, like yesterday!"_ I also agree with @*Ursula* that you should take the dogs with you. And I agree with the other respondents that you should divorce if she is unwilling to obtain professional help. 

Yet, if you are still reluctant to leave her, I recommend that you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two _all by yourself_ -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is that you are dealing with. I also suggest that, while you're looking for a good psych, you read about BPD warning signs to see if they seem to apply. 

Learning to spot these red flags will not enable you to diagnose your W's issues. Only a professional can determine whether her BPD traits are so severe as to constitute full-blown BPD. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a very painful situation -- e.g., avoid taking her back or avoid running into the arms of another woman just like her.

An easy place to start reading is my list of red flags at _*18 BPD Warning Signs*_. If most of those signs sound very familiar, I would suggest you read my more detailed description of them at my posts in _*Maybe's Thread*_. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to join the other respondents in discussing them with you. Take care, Edward.


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## MEM2020

Edward,

The safe play is - you move out and leave her a letter. And the next time you meet - it is in a public place. Maybe a week later. This will give her time to calm down. But you also record your meeting. 

Give her a week - she will have time to think about the money. You can buy visitation with the dogs.






Edward333 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Just checking in to say how much I appreciate everyone's comments. It just reconfirms everything I've been thinking and helps to get some objective feedback.
> 
> BTW, I've decided to go ahead with our vacation plans since things are pretty "stable" at the moment.
> 
> When we return in early March, I'll be meeting with my attorney again to come up with an "exit plan". It's a very sad situation.


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## Vinnydee

I think you know what to do. This is like the last post I wrote which stated that for some reason the spouse is grasping for straws in order to avoid doing what he/she knows what must be done. You paint yourself as a battered beta male who is suffering from abusive spouse syndrome. You should have been calling the police a long time ago but it seems you are afraid to do anything but document things. The only documentation that will stand up in court is a police report and you never mentioned calling the police. Just trying to get at your guns would have put her in jail for a while and good grounds for a divorce. You do not have kids and you apparently will put up being beaten for the sake of your dogs? I would never ask for advice from strangers given your circumstances. Sometimes I do not know reality from trolling, but will accept your post as real since it is a serious situation. Of course you divorce her. It is obviously the best solution.


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## arbitrator

*Late to the party again, but it's time for you to get the hell out of Dodge right now ~ for your own personal sanity and perhaps even for your physical well-being! *


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## WorkingWife

Edward333 said:


> we do 3 - 5 loads of laundry per day.


How is that even possible? Is she washing clean clothes? How many clothes can a person wear in a day?




Edward333 said:


> she keeps 5 to 7 paper towel rolls out on the kitchen counter (?). If I remove 1, she replaces it.


Whiskey Tango Foxtrot????

Has she seen a doctor for this? She sounds mentally ill. Which may tug at your co-dependent heart strings, but the fact that she has EVER become physically violent with you and not sought anger management help shows that she is not trying to do anything about her problems.

I'm with the others in that I think you should take the dogs with you.

I do understand the fear of her committing suicide though. She does not sound stable. But you can't be sentenced to a life in prison because of her problems that she is not addressing. Have you asked her to see a Dr. about her OCD?

When you do leave, plan it out well in advance. She could become dangerous. It's not like she can't get her hands on another gun just because you've removed yours from the home. Or a knife. Or all kinds of things. It sounds like her violent episodes are not pre-meditated right now, so her plotting to find a gun and kill you is probably not a concern. But if you leave her and she is not stable, there is no telling how she might react.


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## Grapes

Edward333 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Just checking in to say how much I appreciate everyone's comments. It just reconfirms everything I've been thinking and helps to get some objective feedback.
> 
> BTW, I've decided to go ahead with our vacation plans since things are pretty "stable" at the moment.
> 
> When we return in early March, I'll be meeting with my attorney again to come up with an "exit plan". It's a very sad situation.


This is a mistake - Dont wait, theres literally no reason to wait. Hell.. go on the vacation without her - i bet you have a better time!


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## Edward333

Vinnydee said:


> I think you know what to do. This is like the last post I wrote which stated that for some reason the spouse is grasping for straws in order to avoid doing what he/she knows what must be done. You paint yourself as a battered beta male who is suffering from abusive spouse syndrome. You should have been calling the police a long time ago but it seems you are afraid to do anything but document things. The only documentation that will stand up in court is a police report and you never mentioned calling the police. Just trying to get at your guns would have put her in jail for a while and good grounds for a divorce. You do not have kids and you apparently will put up being beaten for the sake of your dogs? I would never ask for advice from strangers given your circumstances. Sometimes I do not know reality from trolling, but will accept your post as real since it is a serious situation. Of course you divorce her. It is obviously the best solution.


Definitely not a troll here.

I wouldn't consider myself a "beta" male necessarily (not anymore at least). However, there's no doubt that my self confidence is MUCH higher now than it was early in our marriage. The last 2 years or so, for a number of reasons, I've "woken up to reality" and started standing up to my wife's outbursts and she's obviously not happy about that as evidenced by her escalating anger. A few incidents in the past year, in particular, have made me realize that I'm married to an immature bully. Some of these incidents were witnessed by our friends, and in other cases her family members. Getting feedback from others has made me realize that what I've been tolerating is not "normal" but abusive. She's only been physically abusive on 2 occasions which were separated by 1 year. In most cases, the abuse has been verbal (screaming, name calling, insults) or emotional (humiliating me in public).

Not anymore. I'm moving on soon. As I mentioned earlier, she has calmed down dramatically in the past 2 months because I honestly think she knows I'm up to something. Too little, too late.


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## Lostinthought61

since your going on your vacation, others may see her behavior come out....you can stay that good for two solid weeks...curious and perhaps you might have mention it previous...what starts her bullying and breaking things...is alcohol involved?


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## Edward333

WorkingWife said:


> How is that even possible? Is she washing clean clothes? How many clothes can a person wear in a day?


Between having two dogs (blankets, etc.) and both of us working out daily (workout clothes, etc.), we generate a fair amount of laundry...however she cannot wait until the washing machine is full, the clothes must be washed immediately. Our washing machine is in the basement, so it's not like odor is an issue. She simply cannot rest knowing that the washer has unwashed clothes in it. 

Regarding the paper towel thing...I've brought that to her attention and her reply is, "why does it bother you? That how I want it."


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## Edward333

Xenote said:


> since your going on your vacation, others may see her behavior come out....you can stay that good for two solid weeks...curious and perhaps you might have mention it previous...what starts her bullying and breaking things...is alcohol involved?


We are going on vacation with her younger brother and his new fiance' and another couple (mutual friends). Last year, her brother and his fiance' witnessed my wife blowup at me in public and embarrass me in front of everyone.

To answer your question - yes, alcohol has played a role in her anger. Not always, but it certainly exacerbates the situation. Both times she became physically abusive, she had a couple of drinks beforehand. I'm learning to tread carefully when she has been drinking. We are both "social" drinkers and never get drunk, however we handle alcohol very differently. Alcohol tends to bring out her angry side for sure.


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## GuyInColorado

My ex was similar but not as bad. Our divorce was very amicable but I was very generous to her during the divorce. I let her keep the house and paid for her living expenses for 6 months while she went full time. 14 months later I'm engaged and have a loving relationship I never thought was possible. Time flies. The first month will suck but you'll 

We got into a big fight one day and I just said I'm gone. Went and packed all of my stuff into my car and left while she balled her eyes out. She wanted to R but I told her I was gone years ago. I had young kids, so I couldn't just leave like you can. 

I bet deep down your'e hoping she explodes while on vacation. I know I would! Then you can just sit back and smile while she embarrasses herself. Then leave her a week later after you get back home.


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## Diana7

Edward333 said:


> We are going on vacation with her younger brother and his new fiance' and another couple (mutual friends). Last year, her brother and his fiance' witnessed my wife blowup at me in public and embarrass me in front of everyone.
> 
> To answer your question - yes, alcohol has played a role in her anger. Not always, but it certainly exacerbates the situation. Both times she became physically abusive, she had a couple of drinks beforehand. I'm learning to tread carefully when she has been drinking. We are both "social" drinkers and never get drunk, however we handle alcohol very differently. Alcohol tends to bring out her angry side for sure.


If that's how she acts when she has been drinking, its hard to understand why she hasn't stopped for the sake of your marriage. 
The fact that she has got better recently because she knows you are up to something, shows that she is able to control her behaviour if she chooses to.


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## Edward333

GuyInColorado said:


> I bet deep down your'e hoping she explodes while on vacation. I know I would! Then you can just sit back and smile while she embarrasses herself. Then leave her a week later after you get back home.


Sadly, this would be an ideal situation for me, particularly if she blows up at someone else. 

Just a month ago, we were out to dinner with another couple and she overheard her girlfriend say something to me (related to politics) that she didn't agree with. My wife was about 20 feet away at the time. My wife walked over and got argumentative and I told to her to please not interrupt our calm discussion. That didn't go over well and then she got into a full blown argument with her girlfriend and demanded that I pay the bill and we go home early. On the drive home, she tried to get me to take her side because she supposedly had an agreement with her friend not to talk about politics (a "hot button" topic" for her). I told her if I want to talk about politics with her friend that's my business and if she can't handle being around people she disagrees with then she's going to end up all alone. 

In the past, I would sit there and agree with her, but not anymore. I'm tired of defending her when she acts like a spoiled brat.


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## WorkingWife

Edward333 said:


> Between having two dogs (blankets, etc.) and both of us working out daily (workout clothes, etc.), we generate a fair amount of laundry...however she cannot wait until the washing machine is full, the clothes must be washed immediately. Our washing machine is in the basement, so it's not like odor is an issue. She simply cannot rest knowing that the washer has unwashed clothes in it.
> 
> Regarding the paper towel thing...I've brought that to her attention and her reply is, "why does it bother you? That how I want it."


Interesting. She definitely sounds like she needs to see a psychiatrist to me.

I hope there's no drought in your area! You could just as easily ask "why does it bother you to have only one roll of paper towels out in the open? That's how I want it."

BTW - if she was married to me, she _*would *_probably kill me in my sleep. I definitely have no problem letting laundry pile up. That's why we own multiple outfits... I even bought more underwear once to put off laundry a few more days.


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## Edward333

WorkingWife said:


> You could just as easily ask "why does it bother you to have only one roll of paper towels out in the open? That's how I want it."


I hear you. I might use that line on her.

Trust me, the things I've shared so far are only a few examples. I have so many others...and I certainly don't claim to be perfect myself (who is?), but I know "ridiculous" when I see it.

When we return from our vacation in early March, I'm seriously considering no longer complying with all of her ridiculous standards around the house and see how she reacts. If it starts a big argument and I walk out, she'll need to explain to everyone why I left and will end up looking like a fool. I'll tell her I'm no longer interested in living like a prisoner in my own home.


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## Marc878

You can hope she'll change all you want and for periods of time she may but long term I doubt that'll happen. You need to fix yourself. She's played on your behavior. To an extent you've enabled this. If you don't fix that you could be right back where you are.

People treat you like you let them.

Start here
http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrB..._Guy.pdf/RK=0/RS=hW9NxcmKvs5bX4rBU.Ivt.qorAg-


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## WorkingWife

Edward333 said:


> I hear you. I might use that line on her.
> 
> Trust me, the things I've shared so far are only a few examples. I have so many others...and I certainly don't claim to be perfect myself (who is?), but I know "ridiculous" when I see it.
> 
> When we return from our vacation in early March, I'm seriously considering no longer complying with all of her ridiculous standards around the house and see how she reacts. If it starts a big argument and I walk out, she'll need to explain to everyone why I left and will end up looking like a fool. I'll tell her I'm no longer interested in living like a prisoner in my own home.


That might give you the permission you feel you need to get out of there. You could also just leave and screw what other people think/say. I say that having stayed in an unhappy marriage myself so I understand the feelings you have that you can't just walk out with no good reason, just saying - that's an option and what a lot of people do. And if their friends don't like it, they find other friends. 

However, you might be surprised to learn that some of your friends already see her as she is. Surely some of her rigidness has spilled into view. I do corporate training so I'm always encountering new groups of adults. Sometimes I'll have a student who is really annoying but everyone else seems to just LOVE them. After I've been on the project a couple weeks (or just days sometimes) I start to see the eye rolls and over hear the conversations about how difficult that person is.

*SO QUESTION:*
Your wife really does sound like she has OCD (at least). Have you ever talked to her about that and asked her to see a Dr.? What if she could get this under control? Could you have a happy marriage with her?


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## Edward333

WorkingWife said:


> That might give you the permission you feel you need to get out of there. You could also just leave and screw what other people think/say. I say that having stayed in an unhappy marriage myself so I understand the feelings you have that you can't just walk out with no good reason, just saying - that's an option and what a lot of people do. And if their friends don't like it, they find other friends.
> 
> However, you might be surprised to learn that some of your friends already see her as she is. Surely some of her rigidness has spilled into view. I do corporate training so I'm always encountering new groups of adults. Sometimes I'll have a student who is really annoying but everyone else seems to just LOVE them. After I've been on the project a couple weeks (or just days sometimes) I start to see the eye rolls and over hear the conversations about how difficult that person is.
> 
> *SO QUESTION:*
> Your wife really does sound like she has OCD (at least). Have you ever talked to her about that and asked her to see a Dr.? What if she could get this under control? Could you have a happy marriage with her?



Since it's been a few months since the last incident where she became physically abusive, I think it might catch her totally off guard if I left seemingly "out of the blue" and her reaction might not be a positive one which would result in her being difficult/vindictive after that. I'd prefer to leave in response to her negative behavior so she could see the cause and effect of it (if that makes any sense.).

I believe her OCD issues are just the "tip of the iceberg" and are a symptom of some much deeper issues. The fact of the matter is, if I felt she was remorseful at all for how she has treated me and wanted to make things better, I'd be more than willing to work through it with her. Unfortunately, I don't feel like this is the case and I honestly can't remember the last time I heard the words, "I'm sorry" come out of her mouth. Usually, after an argument I'm the one who is apologizing and trying to meet her halfway and I think she perceives this as ME being the cause of the argument, so why should SHE apologize. Years of this has honestly caused me to lose respect for her.

It's all very frustrating. Wish me luck. LOL


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## Ursula

My H and I workout (me, twice a day plus various dog walks for clients, and I tell you, I get FURRY sometimes! H works out once in awhile). We also have 2 dogs, and we do laundry once a week. Granted, it's a few loads, but still. Yeah, the paper towel thing is a bit OCD. I could see keeping 1 in the kitchen, 1 in the washroom, but not all lined up in the same place.



Edward333 said:


> Between having two dogs (blankets, etc.) and both of us working out daily (workout clothes, etc.), we generate a fair amount of laundry...however she cannot wait until the washing machine is full, the clothes must be washed immediately. Our washing machine is in the basement, so it's not like odor is an issue. She simply cannot rest knowing that the washer has unwashed clothes in it.
> 
> Regarding the paper towel thing...I've brought that to her attention and her reply is, "why does it bother you? That how I want it."


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## WorkingWife

Edward333 said:


> It's all very frustrating. Wish me luck. LOL


I can imagine. Good luck. If you want out you can probably trigger an outburst by moving her paper towels or taking a dog blanket with hair all over it and draping it over her (in a nice way, because she looks cold...) while she's sitting on the couch. 

The truth is it has been a lot of years and even if she got help you might not want to deal with it any longer. I'm just curious if SHE knows she has problems. It does not sound like it.

I know you're fed up and not a psychology experiment but it would be interesting to see if her never wrong attitude changed if you did stand up to her and did not apologize. Not in a hostile way, just in a matter of fact, "I have nothing to apologize for" way. It seems some men and women often get in this dynamic where the woman is a demanding, critical shrew and the guy is meek and subservient just to keep the peace. Neither one is actually happy though.

I don't know if anyone has recommended the book "No more Mr. nice guy" to you but I see it recommended a lot to men in relationship where they're trying to be "the nice guy" to a domineering woman. It might be good for future relationships to make sure this doesn't happen again.


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## Edward333

WorkingWife said:


> I can imagine. Good luck. If you want out you can probably trigger an outburst by moving her paper towels or taking a dog blanket with hair all over it and draping it over her (in a nice way, because she looks cold...) while she's sitting on the couch.


This made me laugh because it's probably true.

I would honestly say a big part of her recent escalation of anger with me is tied to me longer acting like "Mr. Nice Guy" and standing up for myself. I've basically been sending her a strong message that she can no longer boss me around. She does this to some of her family members (mom, sister, etc.) too which has caused a lot of friction.

In the past couple of years, my general attitude has changed, and for lack of a better term, I've become "fed up" with her nonsense and realize that what I've been tolerating is ridiculous. I only wish I had come to this realization sooner.


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## Edward333

Hi everyone,

Well, I had an interesting day today. Over the weekend, I finished moving most of my important things out of the house into a storage unit while my wife was gone. This morning before she left for work, she went into my office to put something in our files and noticed it looked quite empty. I got a text at work this morning from her, "where is all your stuff in your office?" "Where did you put everything from the closet?"

I tried to avoid answering directly, but she kept pressing and I decided it was time to spill the beans. We texted back and forth all morning and when we left off, I told her I haven't been happy in a long time because of the way she's treated me. We agreed to talk after we got home from work, but I knew it was time for me to tell her the news.

On my lunch break, I went to our bank and opened up a separate checking account in my name only and deposited exactly 50% of our balance into it.

When I got home from work, we got into it again and, long story short, I told her I wanted a divorce because when she punched me in the face, I decided it was over and I waited until she found a job to tell her. She didn't get violent, but was very distraught. I'm spending the night in a hotel nearby and told her everything will work out and she can have the dogs but we need to focus on them and put our differences aside.

Wish me luck, it's about to get very interesting. Tough day for me.


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## DonaldDuck666

Get. Out. There's no excuse for abuse, nor should there be an ounce of tolerance for it, regardless of the circumstances.


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## Edward333

Quick update...

I filed yesterday and my wife will be served in the next week or two.

Now that the initial shock has worn off, she's doing well and being reasonable. I'm hoping to work out a deal with her and move on gracefully.


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## Satya

Just get your business done. Don't talk to her unless it's to discuss logistics. Don't give away what you're doing, just do it. Don't cut off something unexpected she uses without informing her, like a debit/credit card. That'd not be a nice move. Seems like you're being very smart. Keep it up!


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## Edward333

Satya said:


> Just get your business done. Don't talk to her unless it's to discuss logistics. Don't give away what you're doing, just do it. Don't cut off something unexpected she uses without informing her, like a debit/credit card. That'd not be a nice move. Seems like you're being very smart. Keep it up!


Yep, on her request, I moved my half of our savings back into our joint account since it's still considered marital funds at this point. Even so, she got the message that I'm serious.

We've already had some discussions on how to divide everything and we are on the same page for the most part. I told her to put her request in writing and I'll review it. I believe we are both hoping to do this "uncontested". We shall see.


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## Edward333

My wife just got served at home 3 hours ago. She knew it was coming.

Making progress! Feels great.


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## Lostme

Good for you, glad you are moving forward with a better life for yourself. 

Keep hangin in there.


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## aine

How are things going Edward? You have done the right thing. YOur wife needs serious therapy.


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## Edward333

aine said:


> How are things going Edward? You have done the right thing. YOur wife needs serious therapy.


Thank you for asking! I really do appreciate it.

My wife was served her divorce papers exactly 1 week ago, and since then it's been somewhat of a roller coaster ride. Some days she is very reasonable, and others, she is very volatile and difficult to communicate with.

I offered her our townhouse so she could continue living here with the dogs, but she flatly refused. She's moving in with her mom and unmarried sister at her mom's house.

I then offered to take the townhouse and buy her out of her half of the equity and she's reluctantly agreeing. She's also trying to negotiate with me to get some sort of maintenance payout since we have a significant salary difference now and she contributed early in our marriage for a down payment on our home. I'll be generous and make her a nice offer. If she doesn't take it, I'll be happy to let a judge decide and it probably won't look good for her since she's got 2 Master's degrees and one in a "hot" field.

Well, she demanded I get an appraisal on our home and when it came back lower than she wanted, she went ballistic last night and started taking it out on me (what's new!). This started a big rant about how the "appraiser is an idiot" and other ridiculous statements I'm accustomed to.

Our court date is April 24th and I'm hoping we can come to an agreement by then and settle this quickly.

She seems to be reasonable when speaking about how to share visitation with our dogs, but honestly, I can't wait to get away from her.

That's my update. I've been in a pretty good mood lately knowing that my future looks hopeful.


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## Lostinthought61

Just think one day the only way she will talk to you is via the phone if that, and you can always hang up on her and get back to life.


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## Satya

Buy some nice ear plugs.


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## Edward333

Lostinthought61 said:


> Just think one day the only way she will talk to you is via the phone if that, and you can always hang up on her and get back to life.


As long as our dogs are alive, I'll need to stay in contact with her. That's fine compared to what I have to deal with currently.


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## Edward333

Hi all,

Quick update on my situation...

Went to court this morning and the divorce is finalized.

Thanks again for all the support.


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## 3Xnocharm

Congratulations! Onward and upward!


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