# Asking for a sexual hiatus..good or bad idea?



## karma*girl

Hi guys,

My husband & I have a strong relationship & a strong sexual relationship as well. 
We both love sex with each other & I will always agree to doing anything he wants..within healthy reason of course; )

However, I am asking him for a sexual hiatus because over the past several months he has forgotten about some of my personal needs & has gotten lazy about meeting them.
He's a great man, but sometimes just falls into a place where (I think) he, maybe subconciously, doesn't feel that he needs to change anything he is doing (or not doing) because I put no pressure on him to adjust his actions. 

I've been reflecting on this & wondering what can I DO now, (not say) in order to get through to him?
It's hit me lately that things aren't going so fair in our marriage. 

We've had talks & he's graciously agreed to meet these simple & reasonable needs, yet will forget our conversations & go right back to his habits within a few days.
I got to thinking that maybe it's partially my fault & maybe I am enabling this. 
I am always 'ready' for him at a moments notice...I love sex with him & want it as much as he does..I also take care of him in every other way, he has no complaints, (I've asked him.)
So I've continued to be a good wife, always, always meeting his needs, but without getting the proper reciprocal attention lately.

I told him I want to take a sexual break & explained why. He understood me & respected my wishes. 
So he knows what I'm thinking, although he admitted that it won't be a punishmement for him & that he won't connect the two things ( not meeting my needs= no sex.) 

He asked if I minded if he jerks off- I don't mind.
But will taking this break & me not meeting his needs until he takes me seriously & tries to meet mine, even be successful??
I know taking care of oneself doesn't come close to satisfying the emotional connection of sex with your SO, but I worry that he'll be satisfied enough to not care that much that we are taking a break.

Any & all thoughts are totally welcome! Thank you!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## naga75

It seems to me that you are indeed punishing him by withholding sex, because he isnt meeting your needs. 
I dont see how it could be construed as anything else, so why not just call it what it is?
What needs are not being met, on your end?
Has he discussed any of his needs that may not be being met?
Sometimes a guy simply needs to be told over and over again to finally grasp a concept and stick with it. Just how some are. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tacoma

karma*girl said:


> Any & all thoughts are totally welcome! Thank you!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think you just self induced a sexless marriage.

If you're withholding there's no damn way I'm EVER initiating again.

Maybe he's not like me.
Hopefully.


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## Mavash.

What needs aren't being met?


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## karma*girl

( : Thanks guys...we've been together for 20 years though & I know this will not push us into a sexless marriage- that would be impossible for us.

I think he didn't refer to it as a punishment because I tried to carefully point out that was not how I intended it to be. 
Just that fair is fair & if I'm left hanging, but he is always taken care of, it is going to create some resentment & has. So we needed to figure something out, some way to get things back to being fair.
He agreed & thought we should try it since we've never tried it before..He said he loves sex with me & wants it, but if my decision is to hold off a while, he gets it. Hope he meant that!

I have to say, he has been much more attentive since we talked about this & seems to really respect my stance. I was worried..but didn't know what else would make as strong of an impact.
I'm open to suggestions if this ends up turning around and not working.

We are very affectionate & loving still, just without the act of sex. 

My needs that he's forgotten about are things such as, being more empathetic in certain situations, reassurance with certain things, pulling his own weight around the home, etc..nothing major, just a handful of small things, but they build up & wind up feeling heavy to me.. they affect me daily. Especially when his lack of caring about those things feels like he is not caring about me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## karma*girl

...as I said above, I am meeting all of his needs, according to him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Toffer

Just because you say it isn't a punishment doesn't mean it's so

I think you two would be better off finding a middle ground because before too long he may discover that whacking it involves a boatload LESS work than meeting all your needs outside of the bedroom
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hope1964

Flower it up with nice words all you want, you're withholding sex because he isn't doing what you want him to.

Not gonna work.

Have you ever heard of the book His Needs Her Needs? I suggest you get it and work through it with him, rather than do this rather childish thing to him. Neither of you is meeting the others needs, and cutting him off of sex is NOT going to solve the problem.


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## karma*girl

I haven't read it, but heard of it..even did the survey with him. He is not into those things. 
Therefore, that type of thing winds up lying under the category of "discussed & forgotten."

Keep in mind that this isn't the typical wife "withholding sex" scenario, at all.
I have never, ever done this & actually don't like it myself. 
If it's a punishment, then it's a punishment for us both..it's kind of like torture.

The thing is, like I said, words accomplish nothing, nada, zero!
I compare it to the guys who talk over & over to their wives about their sex lives. 
You hope it goes somewhere, but never does. 
So there needs to be some action, some way to SHOW, not tell him that we need to even the playing field.

What other things might make a solid impact on a guy? 
I'm totally open to suggestions because I hate not being intimate with my husband, completely hate it..
although I have to say, he is stepping his game up as a result but it's only been a couple days...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JCD

So what is your game plan when THIS doesn't work?

It likely won't.

You two are being rather cerebral about this. He is probably harboring some resentment. I would.

Here is a Buddhist concept (I am not a Buddhist) of lowering your expectations to fit your resources. 

If he doesn't meet you needs, offer less for his. Take time for yourself. Come to an acceptable medium.


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## karma*girl

Okay, I see...but what, for example, do you mean by offering less for his, give me details? I need concrete ideas.
I've tried many times to come to an acceptable medium, through other means. 
It just keeps sliding back to an unfair place.

If this doesn't work, then we try something else...that's why I am here, asking for help or suggestions.
No one seems to mind though that on my end there's an absolute deficit, but on his there is not, he is fulfilled.
I keep giving, while he keeps taking. That is a problem, which makes me want to stop giving..makes sense, doesn't it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## karma*girl

...I am harboring some resentment as well, for his lack of effort.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hope1964

Instead of withholding sex, why don't you tell him that doing the book is your ultimatum?? If you want him to show he means it, make THAT the thing he does to prove it. It's going to be far less of a negative than withholding sex.

Set one night a week aside where you do one chapter, each week. It's on both your calendars, an appointment that neither of you can break. No ifs, ands or buts. You do it every week till you're done the book.

Chapter one is about a womans need for affection. Chapter two is about a mans need for sex.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/pdf/HNHN-ch1.pdf


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## JCD

karma*girl said:


> My needs that he's forgotten about are things such as, being more empathetic in certain situations,


I.E. being a man



> reassurance with certain things,


Being a man,



> pulling his own weight around the home, etc..


REALLY being a (lazy) man.




> nothing major, just a handful of small things, but they build up & wind up feeling heavy to me.. they affect me daily. Especially when his lack of caring about those things feels like he is not caring about me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why does the fact he doesn't like laundry have to be about you?

Find a handful of chores he likes...or at least doesn't mind.

It takes, IIRC, about 6 weeks of repetition to make an exercise program a habit. You need to help motivate him in making these habits.

He needs to step up too.

But a lack of empathy? Not being reassuring enough? Vague and a little overly sensitive, PARTICULARLY to cut off sex over. These are male traits. You are punishing him for not being a girlfriend.

Read some books on male female communication. Yes,both of you.


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## karma*girl

I wish it were just laundry! It's that he does nothing, or waits 3 weeks before doing one thing. I do not bug him because I hate nagging, but I ask once. That should be enough.
Additionally, those may be male traits, but he should try to adjust them a bit for the sake of a balanced relationship, don't you think?
If I was overly emotional often & he asked me to try and put things in perspective & settle down a little for his sake, I would take it as my responsibility as one half of the marriage to do my part & compromise, for him. I expect the same for myself. I think that's fair.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## karma*girl

Hope, that's a good suggestion, thank you..I bet if I really, really pushed the issue, he'd read the book with me..only thing is actually implementing the changes would be where the challenge lies.
I am realizing that no matter what I say, or what he learns, he is going to return to his default position. He needs to see something actually change, so he'll change.

But, reading it is definitely is worth a try, I've heard it's a valuable resource.
It seems the action I am taking, is making a difference though.
I was weary, but not only is he stepping it up, he's also in a good mood about everything he's doing. It's so surprising, and sweet: )

He has told me once a long time ago, that I need to stand up for myself more.
He's the type of guy that loves a challenge, so this kind of thing revs his engine..it's looking that way anyway.
He's not going to hate me if we don't do it for a short while, I know this.

Last night, we were having a tough time with avoiding sex, but we kept things from escalating...to this, he said that he respects my wishes too much to push it.
That was a positive! 

I guess posting the question here leaves too much unsaid & opinions can be quickly formed, naturally, of course.
But there is so much that can't be explained that it makes it tough to come across accurately.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JCD

You do NOT want your husband to grow used to not having sex with you.

Is that REALLY a habit you want to instill?


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## woundedwarrior

Speaking from one of many stuck in a sexless marriage, you are "playing with fire". If you both enjoy sex with each other equally, why would you screw that up. There are other punishments like quit cooking, doing laundry etc. Your relationship will weaken without sex & it doesn't matter what other affection he shows. Men get resentful, like Tacoma said, when we think we are being purposely withheld from intimacy. Be careful, once you quit, you may not get it back.


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## Kobo

If you don't feel like having sex then you shouldn't. Nothing worse than a dead fish. Hopefully you are less vague with him than this post is. I would say that you need to be honest with yourself and realize that this is a punishment. You should also realize this punishment works better on men in their twenties.


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## Why Not Be Happy?

Just an opinion....but I think you are making a HUGE mistake.


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## karma*girl

I have definitely been more specific with him, he knows the details. 
It's not that I don't feel like having sex, because I almost always do.
I'm listening here though & am taking your thoughts to heart.
Although things are going well here, I am going to talk to him & find out more about how he feels.
The last thing I want is him getting used to Not wanting sex with me...he's super horny now, knowing we shouldn't be doing it, being very suggestive & testing me I think.
He wants me to give in, I want to so we can be intimate, but I don't want to be a pushover.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TryingandFrustrated

I had a response typed up and accidentally hit the back button. Let's see if I can remember all I had written on this.

I think it is punishment, and he probably sees it that way as well, but just won't state it because he doesn't want to start an argument and get you upset over something else.

My wife decided to do this 14 months ago, and to this day she is still finding things she isn't perfectly happy with. It is a very slippery slope that you are going down.

His resentment will build when he is starting to try and do the things you ask of him and still withhold sex and he'll start feeling like he has to be perfect and nothing less will do before you will be happy and remove the "Sex Moratorium". Then, nobody will be happy and both of you will be trying to figure out how to get out of the mess without being the "loser" in the whole thing.


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## okeydokie

I'm in the midst of a sexual break right now, been about 5 weeks. Although when you are at once a month or so it isn't saying much. It's mutual for us, built on a lot of resentment. There is no type of affection or communication with us right now, we just exist in the same house. All focus is on kids activities, no focus on us at all. I'm beginning to grow accustomed to it, there is vastly reduced pressure to be careful all the ti e and I don't have to listen to her incessant talking near as much. However, I do recognize that it is yet another nail in the coffin that our marriage will rest in someday.

Think long and hard about your plan


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## norajane

karma*girl said:


> Keep in mind that this isn't the typical wife "withholding sex" scenario, at all.
> I have never, ever done this & actually don't like it myself.


What do you consider the typical wife "withholding sex" scenario to be? How is it different from what you are doing?


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## Mavash.

Reading this makes me think about how I handle my kids. If punishing them means I suffer too I think twice about doing it. I love sex so no way would I ever withhold that as a punishment because I'd be punishing myself too. Sex shouldn't be withheld except under extreme cases like abuse or infidelity.

Add me to the list of people who think this is a bad idea.


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## dubsey

I dunno. I think this is a bad idea.

Find out why he isn't pulling his weight and work around it.

For example. I HATE HATE HATE to cook. Hate it. My wife found it exhausting to do it every night and began to resent doing it, even though it's something she enjoys.

Our compromise is that I always (or nearly always, I get busy too) make sure all of the counter tops, pots, pans, etc are clear and put away so when she gets home from work, she can pull out what she needs and it's all ready to go.

It wasn't making dinner that exhausted her, it was getting the kitchen clean enough to cook in. So, my job is to make sure she has everything set up, and I usually wash all the pots/pans/bowls/whatever she uses to prepare with, then clear the sink area once they're dry and put them away.

Example 2. My wife hates doing laundry. I do all the laundry, but I don't like to fold it. So I gather it all up from the 2nd floor, carry it down to the basement and move it, washer, dryer, then leave baskets of clothes for her to fold while watching Grey's Anatomy or some show I have no desire to ever watch, then she leaves the folded clothes, I gather them up, take them back upstairs.

No amount of withholding sex was going to help the above. It would only cause resentment.


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## Dad&Hubby

So he doesn't pull enough weight around the house and isn't emotionally supportive or empathetic with you so you withhold sex with him.

First recognize that for a man sex = love and connection. You're making the mistake that your husband has sex "to get his rocks off". He doesn't He has sex to show you he loves you. He has sex to connect with you as his wife. You just told him you don't want that.......BIG MISTAKE!

I'm not saying that what your husband is doing is right, fair and shouldn't be addressed...they should be. But to use sex as a bargaining chip...ouch...you just did a lot of damage to your husband's perceptions of you and your marriage. I guarantee he's now questioning how much you like it, how much you want him and most importantly how much you LOVE him. (remember sex=love in a non-cheating married man's mind).

Sex is one of those components that should NEVER EVER be used as a bargaining chip. If my wife did that...wow. I'd really question our marriage. Don't think of your own specific situation but define "marriage without sex".

I know you're REALLY frustrated, hurt and resentful. And by the sound of it, justifiably, but there has to be other ways. And on the other side of the coin, you've been married for 20 some odd years and he's like this...I'm assuming you're in your 40's to 50's. Are you asking him to change behavior or are you asking him to change WHO he is? You won't change who he is but you can modify behavior.


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## JCD

I certainly hope you have been a LOT more specific with him because it sounded like a nebulous 'I'll give you sex when you fix...whatever." 

"Be more empathic. Be more reassuring." How the hell do I fix that to get more nookie if I don't understand what I did wrong in the first place?

"Do laundry". I have a goal. "Vacuum twice a week." I'm all over that.

IF you do this wildly silly idea, you make sure you set out LOUD AND CLEAR metrics of what needs fixing...because otherwise it's all 'Oh...when I feel like it, and you do whatever is wrong.'

That is unfair. Granted, lots of women dole out sex 'when they feel like it' so it's nothing new to men in general.

Angry and loud works better. Sweet and withdrawing feels like withdrawing and sounds like an excuse to male ears. Men listen to upset. Soft tones which stick the knife in? That just engenders distrust and dislike.

And now he knows the price of failure. Sorry to say, every man knows he is going to disappoint his wife somehow, so you just outlined his future of intermitant dry spells as he does...something...wrong.


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## Kasler

You are handling this problem in a very ham handed manner that can be derimental to your marriage. 

Use whatever words you like, but what you are doing is withholding sex and putting a price on it. Sex should be an act that is done because those doing it enjoy it, nothing more. When you start measuring, limiting and trading it(like I'll give you a bj after you go down on me) it turns an intimate experience into something to be bartered and bargained for. 

You say you somewhat resent him, hes probably resenting you as well for making such a decision that affects both of you on your own without consulting him first but hes just not saying it. 

Men really don't like being turned down when trying to initiate sex, but being told in advance you won't be getting any so don't bother trying is 10x worse. I once dated a girl who did that, and the resentment on my part grew so much I just lost her number and stopped returning calls until we drifted. 

There are better ways to find a middle ground, and thats what you need to do. From reading your posts I'm only hearing you referencing changes on his part, but you're gonna have to pitch in too.


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## karma*girl

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TCSRedhead

Just my two cents ....

Sex is a bonding experience in the marriage. It's not a reward/punishment. 

I would consider the long term effects from employing this method as a punishment for him not meeting your expectation very carefully. He's already told you that this won't work, right?


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## LovesHerMan

karma*girl said:


> My needs that he's forgotten about are things such as, being more empathetic in certain situations, reassurance with certain things, pulling his own weight around the home, etc..nothing major, just a handful of small things, but they build up & wind up feeling heavy to me.. they affect me daily. Especially when his lack of caring about those things feels like he is not caring about me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You should address each situation as it arises. Tell him what to say to be more empathetic. Ask for reassurance when you need it. Ask for help with tasks around the house. Keep doing this as long as necessary. 

Sexual connection is based on emotions, and once a wall of resentment is built, it is not easily torn down.


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## TryingandFrustrated

I couldn't have said it better myself. Please read this from someones perspective that is actually going through this, and yes I wonder about the bolded parts everyday even though she tells me she loves me.



Dad&Hubby said:


> So he doesn't pull enough weight around the house and isn't emotionally supportive or empathetic with you so you withhold sex with him.
> 
> First recognize that for a man sex = love and connection. *You're making the mistake that your husband has sex "to get his rocks off". He doesn't He has sex to show you he loves you. He has sex to connect with you as his wife. You just told him you don't want that.......BIG MISTAKE*!
> 
> I'm not saying that what your husband is doing is right, fair and shouldn't be addressed...they should be. But to use sex as a bargaining chip...ouch...you just did a lot of damage to your husband's perceptions of you and your marriage. *I guarantee he's now questioning how much you like it, how much you want him and most importantly how much you LOVE him*. (remember sex=love in a non-cheating married man's mind).
> 
> Sex is one of those components that should NEVER EVER be used as a bargaining chip. If my wife did that...wow. I'd really question our marriage. Don't think of your own specific situation but define "marriage without sex".
> 
> I know you're REALLY frustrated, hurt and resentful. And by the sound of it, justifiably, but there has to be other ways. And on the other side of the coin, you've been married for 20 some odd years and he's like this...I'm assuming you're in your 40's to 50's. Are you asking him to change behavior or are you asking him to change WHO he is? You won't change who he is but you can modify behavior.


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## Toffer

Sex is something shared between two people who love each other and is perhaps the ulitmate expression of that love.

The two of you both love having sex with each other yet you've choosen to put a halt to it to try and get certain results from your husband. He's going along because he doesn't want to fight with you and knowing that you like sex as much as he does, he's hoping you breakdown before he does.

As Mavash pointed out, you're punishing yourself too. Your establishing a dangerous precedent here. What if in the future HE doesn't like the way you iron his shirts. Will it be OK with you if he stops having sex with you or refuses to perform oral on you?


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## LovesHerMan

Have we convinced you yet?


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## MaritimeGuy

If you were not having sex with him because you were not feeling sexual towards him in response to his treatment of you that would be one thing. No one should be expected to have sex against their will.

Trying to use sex as "leverage" to ellicit a specific response though is just wrong in my opinion. Sex is not something one "gives" another. Sex is something two people do together. 

I would suggest doing something different. Perhaps making dinner only for yourself, or only doing your own laundry. Tell him when he starts considering your needs you will return to considering his. 

Sex is a need of the relationship not either one of the parties in the relationship. Cutting out sex will hurt the relationship.


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## naga75

MaritimeGuy said:


> Trying to use sex as "leverage" to ellicit a specific response though is just wrong in my opinion. Sex is not something one "gives" another. Sex is something two people do together.
> 
> *I would suggest doing something different. Perhaps making dinner only for yourself, or only doing your own laundry. Tell him when he starts considering your needs you will return to considering his.*
> 
> Sex is a need of the relationship not either one of the parties in the relationship. Cutting out sex will hurt the relationship.


i agree completely. bolded part is a MUCH better idea than withholding sex.


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## karma*girl

I really do love all of your responses and getting to see things in a different light. I wouldn't take such a drastic measure if I wasn't at my wits end about the things he's been dropping the ball on.
Also, I want to clarify that these things I need from him, although seem minor, are as a result of things that were not minor in our marriage, in our past.

He KNOWS how important it is to follow through & when it doesn't happen over & over, it drives a wedge between us.

Btw- we are both 35, married almost 17 years, together 20..we know each other very well & how the other works.

I feel bad saying this, as I should, but I need to hit him where it hurts to make a real impact. I don't like it, but he will not give a crap if I don't make him dinner or do his laundry, etc..he is very self-sufficient when need be. It would be a minor annoyance to him. I hate that sex is the only thing that will wake him up...And it's working. 

I DO agree with everyone about how men connect through sex & that he may be feeling hurt emotionally now because of this. In spite of myself, I am happy and feel bad at the same time for that. That's exactly what I've been going through, feeling unloved, not cherished, not connected & now it's his turn to feel that way- totally frustrated. He knows all of this and agreed..still he said no sex won't cause him to change...yet he's already made changes?

I WANT him to feel something so he's motivated to change his habits. I'm not asking him to change WHO he is, no way, I am in love with him how he is.
I am asking him to adjust his behaviors toward me- trust me, I am not asking too much, not at all.

After reading all these posts, I am taking everything into consideration. I am going to talk to him tonight & get a really good accurate gauge, again, on his feelings.
I want to MAKE SURE I don't mess things up!

What is confusing to me, is how everyone is saying how negative it is, (I somewhat agree) but all I've seen is a lot of love, affection & little improvements. 
Why would he act that way if he was silently resenting me? I am honestly asking, because now I'm confused when I felt things were working.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dubsey

karma*girl said:


> Why would he act that way if he was silently resenting me? I am honestly asking, because now I'm confused when I felt things were working.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


right now it's a game to him to get you to give it up. he's enjoying the game. I don't think that will last.


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## WorkingOnMe

This is the type of conversation that would have me calling my lawyer. Sure I'd pretend to take it in stride. But internally I'd consider the marriage over.


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## MaritimeGuy

karma*girl said:


> Why would he act that way if he was silently resenting me? I am honestly asking, because now I'm confused when I felt things were working.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It works because he wants sex and like a lot of guys he will say or do just about anything to get it. It doesn't mean he's happy about it. In fact, there's a good chance he resents it. 

In my mind using sex as a tool for manipulation risks having him decide sex with you is no longer worth the effort...he can get it from someone else with much less effort.

Not to mention you're hurting yourself too....

I just don't see sex as something a person doles out to another in exchange for good behaviour. To me it's something two people do together because it makes both of them feel good and brings them closer together.


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## TCSRedhead

This isn't the path to what you want. If his behavior is a deal breaker in your marriage, that is what you should focus on in your messaging. Explain that you cannot tolerate this behavior/action/whatever any further. You love him but if X, Y and Z aren't committed to, you cannot continue in this marriage.

Deciding to break the bond of intimacy is just being manipulative IMO. It becomes a payment for 'good' behavior in a sense and cheapens that act between the two of you.


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## Stonewall

Men are dogs right? Ok lets follow that logic for a moment. I have trained many dogs and my wife has trained one (namely me) It is absolutely true that you will get much better results from positive reinforcement than negative reinforcement. 

If I tell my dog to retrieve and he doesn't I don't beat his ass because it doesn't work. I tell him what to do and when he does well he gets a treat and it doesn't take him long to decide he likes treats. 

What does your hubs like? whatever it is use it to your advantage and you will get much better results than what you are talking about now.


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## Dad&Hubby

karma*girl said:


> I really do love all of your responses and getting to see things in a different light. I wouldn't take such a drastic measure if I wasn't at my wits end about the things he's been dropping the ball on.
> Also, I want to clarify that these things I need from him, although seem minor, are as a result of things that were not minor in our marriage, in our past.
> 
> He KNOWS how important it is to follow through & when it doesn't happen over & over, it drives a wedge between us.
> 
> Btw- we are both 35, married almost 17 years, together 20..we know each other very well & how the other works.
> 
> I feel bad saying this, as I should, but I need to hit him where it hurts to make a real impact. I don't like it, but he will not give a crap if I don't make him dinner or do his laundry, etc..he is very self-sufficient when need be. It would be a minor annoyance to him. I hate that sex is the only thing that will wake him up...And it's working.
> 
> I DO agree with everyone about how men connect through sex & that he may be feeling hurt emotionally now because of this. In spite of myself, I am happy and feel bad at the same time for that. That's exactly what I've been going through, feeling unloved, not cherished, not connected & now it's his turn to feel that way- totally frustrated. He knows all of this and agreed..still he said no sex won't cause him to change...yet he's already made changes?
> 
> I WANT him to feel something so he's motivated to change his habits. I'm not asking him to change WHO he is, no way, I am in love with him how he is.
> I am asking him to adjust his behaviors toward me- trust me, I am not asking too much, not at all.
> 
> After reading all these posts, I am taking everything into consideration. I am going to talk to him tonight & get a really good accurate gauge, again, on his feelings.
> I want to MAKE SURE I don't mess things up!
> 
> What is confusing to me, is how everyone is saying how negative it is, (I somewhat agree) but all I've seen is a lot of love, affection & little improvements.
> Why would he act that way if he was silently resenting me? I am honestly asking, because now I'm confused when I felt things were working.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Because he's looking short term. He's thinking about getting a little something something on Saturday. This type of thing will be taken in stride the first time and in short bursts.

But the next time you say no to sex, it will compound in him. I can't speak for your husband, but if my wife EVER used sex as a negotiating tool. My response would be, then you don't get any either and I'll go find a woman (not while married) who WANTS sex with me as much as I want with her.

I've been married twice. My first (ex) wife did these types of things with sex. The entire marriage was a mind screw. I started playing games back and became someone I wasn't comfortable with. I divorced her (for many other reasons too). I found a woman who likes and wants sex as much as me and we do it to connect. I give her the best sex of her life and she does the same for me. 

What you could do is have the conversation about how you HATED to take sex off the table because you want it and like it as much as he does, but you've run out of answers to have him fix (xyz state your issues). You don't want to ever do that again, but you NEED these things from him and just ran out of solutions....Not sure, but I think you can repeal the leg crossing while making a big impact. Just a thought.


----------



## woundedwarrior

Welcome to a sexless marriage & believe me it's no fun. The fact that so many of us are fighting to regain intimacy & you are voluntarily throwing yours away, you better realize it & pray you aren't too late. Mans pride tends to be bigger than his sex drive!


----------



## Hope1964

Men tell us what we want to hear. They do the minimum they can to keep us appeased for the moment. 

I am really wondering why you even posted this. You asked if it's a good idea or a bad one. It's UNANIMOUS that it's a BAD idea, yet every time you post you just come up with reasons why you aren't going to change your mind about it.


----------



## JCD

Well this explains a lot. He made you feel bad and undervalued and you are giving him no T*t for That.

Okay.

She's already started this. If she backs up, she looks weak. She'd rather be asexual 

She has no good options.

Just an FYI, I heard flogging had good results for task compliance too. Not sure about the resentment engendered by that.

Teasing


----------



## karma*girl

Hope- that is exactly the problem. The momentary appeasing just so I'll be happy & move on. I'm tired of that, it's not okay anymore.
I posted this because I am at a loss for what to do, so I wanted to hear opinions. I am open & listening.
It's a process, figuring things out. That's what we all are doing here, figuring things out.

Even though holding out seems to be effective, everyone is right- it will probably only be effective for a very short time.
When I brought it up, I knew it was not the best solution & that there would be issues with it..it wasn't natural or comfortable, like going against our grain. We always freely love each other & do so with no strings attached..until now.
These comments are solidifying my initial hesitance about the whole thing.

My husband acts like sex is no big deal, he can take it or leave it...of course not leave it forever, but he says he's fine for however long I want.
I don't really believe him & think it's more his pride that is talking rather than his heart.
But being that he can be hard to read, I am having second thoughts now.

He IS being awesome & attentive to what I asked. It's like magic. But I DO feel guilty.
...and that's not good either...ugh. 

Here is something else he said during the conversation about it: He said "I love sex with you, it's awesome & I don't want to not have that. But I understand where you're coming from.
I can go without for as long as you want, but it's not going to be a punishment, I won't connect the two things.
But the longer I go without it, the less I'll want it." << I knew that last part already, that's why I am questioning it now, do I want to risk that?
The next day he took care of himself twice & made sure to tell me details.

I think it is more of a game to him, definitely waiting to see if I give in. 
I don't want to waiver because I want him to know I'm serious, but I don't want our marriage to suffer either.

I wish I could just smack him around instead so he wakes up- and be done with it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Holland

Such a dangerous situation you have created. It has the potential to go from bad to worse to disastrous. 

If it is a matter of needing more done around the house then outsource, get a cleaner or ironing person. It will remove the stress and if your husband isn't happy about the cost then the onus gets put back on him to either do more or accept that it costs money for someone else to do it.

Please don't mix sex with housework issues. Sex is not a currency.

Now would be a very good time to work out how to reverse this and go into damage control. Your husband is already happy DIY and telling you about it, he is playing along with the game you created and he is playing to win. You are both going to lose if it isn't fixed today.


----------



## norajane

karma*girl said:


> Hope- that is exactly the problem. The momentary appeasing just so I'll be happy & move on. I'm tired of that, it's not okay anymore.
> I posted this because I am at a loss for what to do, so I wanted to hear opinions. I am open & listening.
> It's a process, figuring things out. That's what we all are doing here, figuring things out.
> 
> Even though holding out seems to be effective, everyone is right- it will probably only be effective for a very short time.
> When I brought it up, I knew it was not the best solution & that there would be issues with it..it wasn't natural or comfortable, like going against our grain. We always freely love each other & do so with no strings attached..until now.
> These comments are solidifying my initial hesitance about the whole thing.
> 
> My husband acts like sex is no big deal, he can take it or leave it...of course not leave it forever, but he says he's fine for however long I want.
> I don't really believe him & think it's more his pride that is talking rather than his heart.
> But being that he can be hard to read, I am having second thoughts now.
> 
> He IS being awesome & attentive to what I asked. It's like magic. But I DO feel guilty.
> ...and that's not good either...ugh.
> 
> Here is something else he said during the conversation about it: He said "I love sex with you, it's awesome & I don't want to not have that. But I understand where you're coming from.
> I can go without for as long as you want, but it's not going to be a punishment, I won't connect the two things.
> But the longer I go without it, the less I'll want it." << I knew that last part already, that's why I am questioning it now, do I want to risk that?
> The next day he took care of himself twice & made sure to tell me details.
> 
> I think it is more of a game to him, definitely waiting to see if I give in.
> I don't want to waiver because I want him to know I'm serious, but I don't want our marriage to suffer either.
> 
> I wish I could just smack him around instead so he wakes up- and be done with it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't understand why he isn't taking you seriously. You're telling him that there is a problem between you, a significant enough problem that, in order to finally get his attention so he listens and understands, you've resorted to cutting off sex.

Instead of taking this as a sign that your marriage is in trouble, he's masturbating and telling you about it? That sounds childish. 

He's not taking your concerns seriously. Why is that? Does he need you to leave him in order to "get it" that there's a problem?


----------



## Kasler

norajane said:


> I don't understand why he isn't taking you seriously. You're telling him that there is a problem between you, a significant enough problem that, in order to finally get his attention so he listens and understands, you've resorted to cutting off sex.
> 
> Instead of taking this as a sign that your marriage is in trouble, he's masturbating and telling you about it? That sounds childish.
> 
> He's not taking your concerns seriously. Why is that? Does he need you to leave him in order to "get it" that there's a problem?


Hes not taking her seriously because she started this with childish and, no matter how you look at it, vindictive decision.

Shes basically saying "You're not doing something I want you to do so no sex"

This guy is taking it like a champ honestly and seems to be humoring this situation. I'd have a VERY different response if my gf told me some BS that. 

She needs to get her issue across in a better way, a way that can actually constitute change that both of them can be happy with and feel like no ones lost. Not something so crude as "if you want this you must do that and thats final"

Even if you get what you want you're just laying down a welcome mat for resentment. 

Quick and loose analogy. 

If your toddler is constantly breaking his toys, which is more likely to change his behavior in a positive way?

Showing him how and why he should treat his toys with care, or just taking away the toys away for a while anytime he breaks one? 

I implore you, there are better ways to do this that will leave both of you satisfied, and you should find and use one of them.


----------



## okeydokie

Hope1964 said:


> Men tell us what we want to hear. They do the minimum they can to keep us appeased for the moment.


You really think that's a trait exclusive to men? I get so much of that crap from my wife I just laugh at her now.


----------



## nothingtodeclare

What a sad, short-sighted solution. You took an important part of your relationship that was working well and soiled it...cheapened it. It is now just a game of chicken you are both now engaged in. End the game tonight, in a mind blowing way, and come up with a bettter idea after.


----------



## norajane

Kasler said:


> Hes not taking her seriously because she started this with childish and, no matter how you look at it, vindictive decision.
> 
> Shes basically saying "You're not doing something I want you to do so no sex"
> 
> This guy is taking it like a champ honestly and seems to be humoring this situation. I'd have a VERY different response if my gf told me some BS that.


But wouldn't one of your responses be to question and think about wtf is going on? She explained to him exactly why she's doing this, and that she's doing it reluctantly and hesitantly because he hasn't been paying attention to anything else she's done to get him to Hear her. 

If your gf sat you down and explained that she's tried to talk to you about the issues in your relationship and you've blown her off, so now she's cutting off sex until you Hear her, you would just blow her off again? Sounds like you'd be asking for the relationship to fail.

If your partner sits you down to tell you no more sex and explains why, wouldn't you _listen_?



> She needs to get her issue across in a better way, a way that can actually constitute change that both of them can be happy with and feel like no ones lost. Not something so crude as "if you want this you must do that and thats final"


What would you suggest as a better way? How can she get through to him that they have problems they need to deal with? She's already talked with him repeatedly about this, including when she told him specifically that she's doing this to get his attention - what else can she try?


----------



## T&T

I'm confused...

So, if I'm totally pissing off my wife, she's supposed to have sex with me anyways?

If my wife is totally pissing me off, I'm supposed to still want to have sex with her?

I don't get it. I must be broken... :scratchhead:


----------



## Kasler

T&T said:


> I'm confused...
> 
> So, if I'm totally pissing off my wife, she's supposed to have sex with me anyways?
> 
> If my wife is totally pissing me off, I'm supposed to still want to have sex with her?
> 
> I don't get it. I must be broken... :scratchhead:


I may have a disagreement with my gf, but I'm not gonna hold sex over her head just because of it. The same if shes ticked at me with the exception being its something huge and potentially relationship breaking. 

I usually check it at door once in the bed, but I don't forget it and pick it up after. 

Maybe thats just me.


----------



## chillymorn

Hope1964 said:


> Men tell us what we want to hear. They do the minimum they can to keep us appeased for the moment.
> 
> I am really wondering why you even posted this. You asked if it's a good idea or a bad one. It's UNANIMOUS that it's a BAD idea, yet every time you post you just come up with reasons why you aren't going to change your mind about it.


I don't think this attitude is gender specific! the men tell you what you want to hear part.


----------



## chillymorn

norajane said:


> But wouldn't one of your responses be to question and think about wtf is going on? She explained to him exactly why she's doing this, and that she's doing it reluctantly and hesitantly because he hasn't been paying attention to anything else she's done to get him to Hear her.
> 
> If your gf sat you down and explained that she's tried to talk to you about the issues in your relationship and you've blown her off, so now she's cutting off sex until you Hear her, you would just blow her off again? Sounds like you'd be asking for the relationship to fail.
> 
> If your partner sits you down to tell you no more sex and explains why, wouldn't you _listen_?
> 
> What would you suggest as a better way? How can she get through to him that they have problems they need to deal with? She's already talked with him repeatedly about this, including when she told him specifically that she's doing this to get his attention - what else can she try?


I would say do some soul searching and decide if this is a deal breaker or not. part of marriage is excepting some flaws. and nagging gently for him to step it up on the important battles.

after 20 years I don't think it will ever change. maybe for awhile but it will be a constant struggle.


----------



## nothingtodeclare

*Re: Re: Asking for a sexual hiatus..good or bad idea?*



T&T said:


> I'm confused...
> 
> So, if I'm totally pissing off my wife, she's supposed to have sex with me anyways?
> 
> If my wife is totally pissing me off, I'm supposed to still want to have sex with her?
> 
> I don't get it. I must be broken... :scratchhead:


Yes, you are confused. This isn't a case of being so angry that they don't want to have sex. This is a case of using sex as a weapon to change behavior. A sure way to put a negative wrench in an otherwise healthy sex life.


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## Catherine602

your husband is not meeting your needs and has not for a long time.

But you have enabled him for so long that he does not take your seriously. You let him get away with not meeting your needs for so long that now he takes you for granted. 

You fear losing him but he does not think you will ever leave him. Guess what, he will not meet your needs until he knows that he may lose you. 

Don't you know that a woman who is consistently passionate and enjoys sex is hard to find? You sound like a good and pleasent lady if not a little misguided. 

You could easily find a man who would be thrilled to meet your needs. Your selfish possibly passive-aggressive husband would not get someone like you. He does not know that. You don't know your value. 

You have to decide if meeting his needs and getting nothing in return is good enough for you. Are you willing to leave him if he does not step up? 

First, your husband sounds passive -aggressive. Read about it and see if he fits. Also learn how to deal with him. You dont engage in games. 

Second, when he does not meet your needs cool things off emotionally. Act independatly and look as good as you can. Get your hair done, get yourself in shape, go out one night a week with friends, dress stylishly and persue an interest that is independant of your husband. Prepare yourself for dating again by looking good. 

You don't want to leave but if you are not will to consider it then you will have to take what ever crumbs he gives you. 

Third, go to marriage counciling. Decide on a set amount of time to work hard on this and then decide on a consequence. Separation and D if he refuses to meet your needs.

This sounds drastic but I will tell you what may happen. Your resentment is building, you'll reach a tipping point like many women and just decide to leave him. It happens frequently. By the time you decide to leave you will be done.


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## Wiserforit

Your husband is way, way in the wrong here for ignoring your needs for so long. You did not create this situation unless we say that you failed to leave him over this.

You already are to the point of witholding sex over resentment so this is a place where instead you should be demanding counseling or performance by a date certain or you prepare for separation. 

His response was war, despite the acts of concilication because he said he would whack off and not acknowledge that your resentment and withholding of sex had anything to do with his behavior. 

So I think you need to make this counseling and performance demand straight away.


----------



## JCD

Wiserforit said:


> Your husband is way, way in the wrong here for ignoring your needs for so long. You did not create this situation unless we say that you failed to leave him over this.
> 
> You already are to the point of witholding sex over resentment so this is a place where instead you should be demanding counseling or performance by a date certain or you prepare for separation.
> 
> His response was war, despite the acts of concilication because he said he would whack off and not acknowledge that your resentment and withholding of sex had anything to do with his behavior.
> 
> So I think you need to make this counseling and performance demand straight away.


I have to agree. He is smiling...I mean 'showing his teeth'. But he is also throwing you disposability in your face because he thinks HE is irreplaceable. Well...there are THOSANDS of men who won't meet your needs in new and interesting ways!

If you are going to withhold sex, why not just go full nuclear and separate? It will have a MUCH greater impact than being all hugs and smiles and meeting all his needs save one (which he can handle with a bottle of Jergen's).

HOWEVER, if this sounds stupid to you, to separate over...whatever...then they aren't really NEEDS on your part; they are WANTS.

So this is the big question: Are you willing to lose him over these issues?


----------



## walkingwounded

I am going to go against the general consensus here.

I am in a similar situation. I would say my marriage issues are a little more complicated, my H did a lot of damage to our relationship by controlling our sex life by rejecting me consistently and only wanting sex when *he* felt like it. This ha passed, but a year later cannot bring himself to go much of a way to reassuring me of his feelings for me and giving me the things I have asked for to feel secure in this marriage.

I have tried a *lot* of things to get him to hear me and sit up and do something. And EVERY-SINGLE-ONE of those things have not worked. At this moment I do not even believe he finds me attractive in any way, it has damaged my esteem that much.

I am HD. H is a lower drive but not LD. This is the irony. But I have seriously contemplated doing what karma*girl is doing. Apart from separating I am running out of options.

Athol actually speaks about this in his blog. What he says is quite interesting when it comes to some guys who don't listen... That they think that because they are still getting regular sex, their W isn't *that* upset really. She's not rocking the boat *that* much. This REALLY struck a chord for me. I was telling H things had to change, yet carrying on the rest of the time as usual. Of COURSE he thinks everything is OK!

My personal thinking is a reasonable H would think, hang on, my wife is so p!ssed that she has banned sex? Yet she *likes* it? Woah, something is SERIOUSLY WRONG. Better get on board and try to work this out. The problem is it doesn't allways work like that.

I have not done this yet. But I do get it.


----------



## T&T

Kasler said:


> I may have a disagreement with my gf, but I'm not gonna hold sex over her head just because of it. The same if shes ticked at me with the exception being its something huge and potentially relationship breaking.
> 
> I usually check it at door once in the bed, but I don't forget it and pick it up after.
> 
> Maybe thats just me.


We can have a disagreement and still have sex without any issues, but what the OP is going through is far worse then that, yet she's supposed to jump into bed with him?


----------



## Hope1964

okeydokie said:


> You really think that's a trait exclusive to men?


Nope. A better word than 'men' would have been 'spouses'.

What I don't get is the ultimatum type of approach to this. Sitting down and telling your husband that you will not be having sex with him because he isn't doing a, b and c. Yet you still WANT to have sex with him. If things are so bad that you feel this step is necessary, why do you still want to have sex with him?? I've been in two marriages, and both went through rough times, and let me tell you, the LAST thing I wanted from my husband was sex when we were on the outs. The frequency and enjoyability of the sex is a pretty good indicator of the state of the marriage, I think. So, why the ultimatum??


----------



## karma*girl

If we are disagreeing about something or something is way off for a while, I don't think it's a good idea to put up an 'everything's great' facade by making love if I don't feel the connection is strong. I actually have done it once, and he said it was like having sex with a cardboard box. So, I decided, none of that, doesn't work. He's of the same mind though & won't go there if we aren't 'on the same page..' The ultimatum is to get my point across loud & clear. I LOVE sex- with him aware of that, I figure he'd think, gosh, she's really serious if she's putting herself through this as well, sacrificing.

I want to say thank you to those that have really noticed the details here & have listened thoroughly to what I'm feeling. 
There is so much good advice, I'm very appreciative for the support..

So yes, our sex life (baseline) is very good- I'm messing with it because it's my last resort before saying I need to take a break from him due to lack of effort.
My husband is a hard worker, great dad & husband in general..he can just get so lazy when it comes to things like this because he knows I'll always be here for him & he's never had enough pressure to take a good look at things and make any adjustments. He means well & tries for a few days, then, poof, it's over. If I'm not complaining or saying anything about it, it's as if everything is peachy in his eyes. That really affects me. I despise reminding him, but it just may be what needs to be done.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Wouldn't it be great if you could just love him the way he is already, laziness and all, the way he loves you just the way you are? Ya, that would be great. Then you wouldn't have to force him to be a different person to make you happy.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

By the way, he is who he is. Any change to his personality that you foist upon him will only be temporary and only for your benefit while you're around. When you're not around he'll revert to his true self. So he'll "act" for you and be himself for everyone else.


----------



## JustGrinding

Hmmm. I never really thought of sex as a training tool.

I’ve found the shock collar used in a disciplined and sparing manner to be rather effective, but those things are expensive, chew up batteries, and don’t hold up to harsher conditions (such as an unexpected downpour, or an accidental slip into the pool).

If this thing works out with your husband, drop me a PM. I’ve got a few dogs that need some attention.


----------



## naga75

WorkingOnMe said:


> Wouldn't it be great if you could just love him the way he is already, laziness and all, the way he loves you just the way you are? Ya, that would be great. Then you wouldn't have to force him to be a different person to make you happy.


I couldn't have said it any better.


----------



## AnnieAsh

But...when a man wants his wife to be sexier or initiate more, isn't that asking her to change who she is fundamentally? And if she refuses, the advice is to start pulling away, cooling down, stop meeting her needs. Karma just seems to be proposing the same thing. It cuts both ways. 

Karma, you seem to be at the end of your rope. If he won't listen to your words, maybe he'll understand actions better? If he gets his needs fulfilled and you are left unsatisfied, how is that fair or right? 

Have you tried a concrete WRITTEN list that he can refer to? Sounds cheesy but seeing it written down might help cement it in his mind. "I need A, B and C daily from you."


----------



## Blue Firefly

karma*girl said:


> My needs that he's forgotten about are things such as, being more empathetic in certain situations, reassurance with certain things, pulling his own weight around the home, etc..nothing major, just a handful of small things, but they build up & wind up feeling heavy to me.. they affect me daily. Especially when his lack of caring about those things feels like he is not caring about me.


These are not sexual needs.

You are making sexual intimacy with your husband conditional.

Call it a huge can of worms; pandora's box; or a hornet's nest of problems, you have gone some place you should never go and you will rue the day you went down this path. This is the kind of thing that kills marriages--absolutely kills them.


----------



## Blue Firefly

karma*girl said:


> I do not bug him because I hate nagging, but *I ask once. That should be enough.*


Major communication fail--on your part.

You are two separate people, with two separate priority lists in your head.

You ask him to do something. Does that mean it goes to #1 on his priority list? Not necessarily, it may only be #8 on his todo list.

But, you assume it's #1, and when he doesn't immediately do it (because he had 7 things ahead of it on his priority list) you get mad.

When you ask someone to do something, you need to find out what else they have on their mental todo list. 

BTW, when someone says "sure, I'll do it" it doesn't mean they will do it now (or even shortly). It just means they will put it on their todo list.


----------



## walkingwounded

WorkingOnMe said:


> Wouldn't it be great if you could just love him the way he is already, laziness and all, the way he loves you just the way you are? Ya, that would be great. Then you wouldn't have to force him to be a different person to make you happy.


I cannot speak for karma*girl, but I know that my H CHANGED and expects me to be OK with that. And I mean "not good" changes. Bait and switch come to mind to me, I married a demonstrably affectionate and "showed how proud he was to be with me" guy.

Now that has all stopped. I do not love the way my H is NOW. People change. Not allways for the better.

I do not know if this is the case in karma*girl's issue, but it happens.


----------



## naga75

Blue Firefly said:


> Major communication fail--on your part.
> 
> You are two separate people, with two separate priority lists in your head.
> 
> You ask him to do something. Does that mean it goes to #1 on his priority list? Not necessarily, it may only be #8 on his todo list.
> 
> But, you assume it's #1, and when he doesn't immediately do it (because he had 7 things ahead of it on his priority list) you get mad.
> 
> When you ask someone to do something, you need to find out what else they have on their mental todo list.
> 
> *BTW, when someone says "sure, I'll do it" it doesn't mean they will do it now (or even shortly). It just means they will put it on their todo list.*


or, as I like to say, _"your lack of planning does not equal my emergency."_


----------



## Blue Firefly

JCD said:


> You do NOT want your husband to grow used to not having sex with you.
> 
> Is that REALLY a habit you want to instill?


Plus, men don't really ever do without getting their sexual needs met. But they do rationalize their actions.


They start to view pornography (it's not really cheating, because it's not real).
They masturbate, which means they are fantisizing while doing it (it's not really cheating, because the other women are only in my mind).
The hire prostitutes (it's not really cheating, because I'm paying her money).
They flirt with women & have emotional affairs with women (it's not really cheating, because there's no physical sex).
They have physical affairs with women (it's not really cheating, because I don't love her).

Is that really what you want? That's what you are setting yourself up for.


----------



## walkingwounded

AnnieAsh said:


> But...when a man wants his wife to be sexier or initiate more, isn't that asking her to change who she is fundamentally? And if she refuses, the advice is to start pulling away, cooling down, stop meeting her needs. Karma just seems to be proposing the same thing. It cuts both ways.
> 
> Karma, you seem to be at the end of your rope. If he won't listen to your words, *maybe he'll understand actions better*? If he gets his needs fulfilled and you are left unsatisfied, how is that fair or right?
> 
> Have you tried a concrete WRITTEN list that he can refer to? Sounds cheesy but seeing it written down might help cement it in his mind. "I need A, B and C daily from you."


Again, this is what Athol talks about in his blog. Read it here, it makes total sense.

Quote:

"So ladies. Bless your hearts. I get that you were unhappy about things, but you were simply talking to a man you knew wasn’t listening to you. Then periodically you’d give him sex, and tell him by your actions that things were still okay."


----------



## Blue Firefly

TCSRedhead said:


> Sex is a bonding experience in the marriage. It's not a reward/punishment.


Nor is it a training tool, which is how the OP is using it.


----------



## Mavash.

walkingwounded said:


> Again, this is what Athol talks about in his blog. Read it here, it makes total sense.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> "So ladies. Bless your hearts. I get that you were unhappy about things, but you were simply talking to a man you knew wasn’t listening to you. Then periodically you’d give him sex, and tell him by your actions that things were still okay."


It's a good article but he says only do this on BIG things not because he didn't take out the garbage or put the toilet seat down.

I don't remember what the op complaints are. Are they big?


----------



## walkingwounded

I LOVE that article Mavash  Wish I had read it sooner.

My interpretation was that the things the OP listed appeared less major than the things Athol refers to, but have built up. Small things in to big things. Only she can really qualify how big these things are to her now.

OP?


----------



## Enginerd

"My husband is a hard worker, great dad & husband in general..he can just get so lazy when it comes to things like this because he knows I'll always be here for him & he's never had enough pressure to take a good look at things and make any adjustments."


So he's a great Dad, a good provider and a decent sexual partner that you desire. Your marriage appears to have alot going for it. I guess I don't understand why your willing to risk throwing that out for some behavioral tweaks. Your "no sex" experiment will have a lasting impression. He's already shown you how he intends to handle it. He will get his sexual needs met a different way. Eventually, he will grow tired of his hand and since he's not getting validated by you anymore he'll go elsewhere. You get points for being honest with him, but in the end analysis it's just a sexual manipulation which always creates deep resentments. 

I think the real issue is that you married too young and your looking for a reason to be dissatisfied. You're ready for something new. We all get tired of our spouses idiosyncracies and typically it's these things that challenge our ability to be intimate. This is where the "work" comes in. The strange thing is that you say there are no intimacy issues in your marriage, but you sure do seem determined to create one. I've been in the position where my wife wasn't into me and the sex dissappeared. I took responsibility for that and turned it around. I had some serious issues to address. If my wife told me she was going to withhold sex until I started to do the dishes or was less lazy after working all day I would be asking myself "Why does this person think she can train me by dangling her magic whoha out as a carrot? It's insulting.


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## Blue Firefly

norajane said:


> I don't understand why he isn't taking you seriously. You're telling him that there is a problem between you, a significant enough problem that, in order to finally get his attention so he listens and understands, you've resorted to cutting off sex.
> 
> Instead of taking this as a sign that your marriage is in trouble, he's masturbating and telling you about it? That sounds childish.
> 
> He's not taking your concerns seriously. Why is that? Does he need you to leave him in order to "get it" that there's a problem?


Maybe her concerns AREN'T serious?

The only concerns I've seem listed are pretty generic (not empathetic, doesn't do laundry, doesn't do what she tells him to do).

Childish? Angry, resentful, & bitter are better descriptions. He may be telling her with a smile, but you don't tell your wife something like that to make her feel better. You do it to rub her nose in it; you do it to garner some measure of *revenge*.

It was a giant "FU b!tch" and nothing less.


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## norajane

Blue Firefly said:


> Maybe her concerns AREN'T serious?
> 
> The only concerns I've seem listed are pretty generic (not empathetic, doesn't do laundry, doesn't do what she tells him to do).
> 
> Childish? Angry, resentful, & bitter are better descriptions. He may be telling her with a smile, but you don't tell your wife something like that to make her feel better. You do it to rub her nose in it; you do it to garner some measure of *revenge*.
> 
> It was a giant "FU b!tch" and nothing less.


Yes, and rubbing her nose in it with a giant FU b!tch is a pretty childish response to his wife taking drastic action to get his attention that _they have a problem_.

In fact, if that's how he always responds when she tries to talk to them about the problems between them, I can see why she is at the end of her rope.


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## karma*girl

NoraJane, & a few others, thank you for truly getting it. 

It's amazing how this thread has become like a game of telephone. By the later part, the main problems are so misconstrued that I've now become an emplorable ***** who is denying her husband sex because he won't take out the garbage. That's extremely insulting, but being that noone here really knows me I guess I can't take it too personal.

I completely understand that this is a very sensitive subject to people, especially here. However, the sweeping accusations, thinking in absolute terms, black or white, is too short-sighted to provide actual guidance..it's all more of a defense, maybe stemming from personal feelings. I understand that & that's okay.

Its frustrating to hear man after man want his wife to change this or that regarding their sexual life, or any part of their life together & there are plenty of supporters for that, and ALL these suggestions as to how to make an otherwise LD woman try all these new sexual things, for HIS gratification, for the sake of their marriage, for a closer bond, etc..
The things I am asking for are not difficult to provide & he has provided them before.
He's just getting lazy...no not after a hard day at work- that is total BS. After a hard day at work, he has a good dinner, a massage, etc..
He's getting lazy about remembering that his wife has certain needs too- ones that will create a closer bond if remembered & followed through with. 

Yet, here I am struggling to get him to hear me, but I should not try to change him. Why? Why does he get to get away with being however he wants, but I need to sit back & take it?
Makes zero sense...what does make sense is that sex is a form of connection & bonding & I feel bad putting the brakes on that. It doesn't feel great, no. 
But honestly, what else would make an equally powerful impact? Probably nothing.

If he resents me & goes elsewhere because he can't get his **** together & follow through with what he promises to do...
like be emotionally supportive, physically supportive, on a regular basis, then he gets to live with the fact that the decline of our marriage began with his declining efforts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tacoma

Blue Firefly said:


> Plus, men don't really ever do without getting their sexual needs met. But they do rationalize their actions.
> 
> 
> They start to view pornography (it's not really cheating, because it's not real).
> They masturbate, which means they are fantisizing while doing it (it's not really cheating, because the other women are only in my mind).
> The hire prostitutes (it's not really cheating, because I'm paying her money).
> They flirt with women & have emotional affairs with women (it's not really cheating, because there's no physical sex).
> They have physical affairs with women (it's not really cheating, because I don't love her).
> 
> Is that really what you want? That's what you are setting yourself up for.


Are you implying porn, masturbation, & flirting are cheating?


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## Toffer

"If he resents me & goes elsewhere because he can't get his **** together & follow through with what he promises to do...
like be emotionally supportive, physically supportive, on a regular basis, *then he gets to live with the fact that the decline of our marriage began with his declining efforts"*

Sorry but I see the decline attributable to both parties here.

He's not meeting your needs. You're using the only weapon you feel you have available in your arsenal (yes, you are using sex as a weapon)

I am confused because you both profess love for each other. These actions are NOT those of a loving couple


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## karma*girl

We all know that, no matter what, every couple goes through crap & needs to figure things out at some point or another. 

Just because we are in this position now does not mean we are not in love with eachother & does not mean we wish to live without each other.

Unfortunately love is not enough. This we all know.

The decline would not be due to both of us, I have given my all for so, so long.

It would be his decision to let it go, if that's what it came to.

The ball is completely in his court. Being sexless won't last forever, for sure..but for the time being, it is serving its purpose & getting him to really understand that my needs are just as important as his. 

If he gets sporadic & lazy again, then we need to talk even more serious- separation? 

That would be horrible, but I'm done with waiting for my needs to be met.

It's time I consider what is right for myself...maybe this path I'm taking will not workout well, but I know enough to know when to recognize a real problem...I would never let things get out of hand or go 

too far when it comes to this.

Our sexual relationship is extremely important to me, it's not everything, but if it died, so would our marriage- I'm not willing to let that happen.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WorkingOnMe

Of course it's all his fault.


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## karma*girl

Of course you only have the ability to think in absolutes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WorkingOnMe

You said it not me. My opinion is it takes two and its mostly on you. But your last post is pretty clear that you won't accept any responsibility.


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## aribabe

Karma girl,

What you have to realize is there's sex.... and then there's everything else.
So what if you have "feelings", desire "empathy", want "non-sexual" affections... that's really not his issue and it it certainly shouldt affect his sex life!
What's wrong with you woman?

He's married to you isn't it?
That's plenty!
How dare you ask him to behave in ways that inspire you to feel desirous of him.
Trying to change this man is what you're doing.
If you want affection, attention and empathy, get a dog chick!
Don't respond to his lack of attentiveness of your needs by being less attentive of his.
What kind of crazy, hippy dippy crap is that?

Here's what you do...
Ask, shut up, and keep your legs open.
Its simple.

Once you ask him to meet your needs, he'll decide whether or not he wants to and while he's deciding he's going to need something to f*ck, and you are the resident accesible vagina so *hint hint*

God, you women make everything so complicated!

:rofl:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JCD

WorkingOnMe said:


> You said it not me. My opinion is it takes two and its mostly on you. But your last post is pretty clear that you won't accept any responsibility.


Hell, I don't even know what he is doing wrong! SHE thinks she is being clear...I hope so...

It has to be pretty rotten to risk separation.

And you just said it is all his fault.

What do you want to bet that if I took him out for a couple of beers, that I could get him to mention a few of YOUR deficiencies?

We all think we are doing okay as a spouse. We are generally wrong in ways we can't imagine.


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## karma*girl

Sounds so simple, if it were only so. I say, if he can't get things right because he's not trying, he can go f*** whomever he wants, but it won't be me.
It's not hippy dippy, it's insisting on keeping a balance in our marriage. 
It's very well known that if one gives & the other takes without reciprocating, taking advantage, it's wrong.
Wrong. Wrong. WRONG.
Open my legs? Please! Been doing it for 20 years, now something's gotta give.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aribabe

Karma girl,

That was total sarcasm lol.
Apparently that wasn't clear.

It was just my assesment of the wonderful advice you've been given by these lovely gentlemen.



karma*girl said:


> Sounds so simple, if it were only so. I say, if he can't get things right because he's not trying, he can go f*** whomever he wants, but it won't be me.
> It's not hippy dippy, it's insisting on keeping a balance in our marriage.
> It's very well known that if one gives & the other takes without reciprocating, taking advantage, it's wrong.
> Wrong. Wrong. WRONG.
> Open my legs? Please! Been doing it for 20 years, now something's gotta give.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JCD

karma*girl said:


> Sounds so simple, if it were only so. I say, if he can't get things right because he's not trying, he can go f*** whomever he wants, but it won't be me.
> It's not hippy dippy, it's insisting on keeping a balance in our marriage.
> It's very well known that if one gives & the other takes without reciprocating, taking advantage, it's wrong.
> Wrong. Wrong. WRONG.
> Open my legs? Please! Been doing it for 20 years, now something's gotta give.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well I think she was being sarcastic


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## karma*girl

JCD- When I asked him in an email, what do you want from me? How can I make you happy?
First, it took him a a week to talk to me about it, and he only did because I asked again.
His response was- nothing. He's good. He's fulfilled. I check in every so often to make sure he's satisfied & he always is. We got married so young, which makes me very aware of the statistics. So, to avoid trouble I often check-in, to see how he feels.
Never a suggestion, never a hint as to what else I can do for him, etc...
It always sounds too perfect to me. 
I think he's too lazy to put in the effort to think about it & respond to my question.
I WISH he'd tell me what else he wants, needs, hopes for etc...
Never does, always acts as if things are a-okay. I have a habit of making them so, even at my own emotional cost- bad habit of mine.
I also think he doesn't want to cause drama or upheaval, so he doesn't say a thing..
So yes, I wish you could take him out & maybe get something else out of him.
Although friends tell me he always has awesome things to say. I'm not complaining, I appreciate that, 
but I wish he'd let me IN more.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## karma*girl

Aribabe! Sorry:/ 
I remembered you being so cool, your post took me by surprise, lol!
I was thrown...and thank you
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## karma*girl

WorkingonMe- I have been responsible for the health of our marriage for the entire duration- do you understand that?
Any relationship work, is done & initiated by yours truly. 
This doesn't mean I think it's all his fault. It means I'm worn out & leaving it up to him now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aribabe

Lol,

No worries karma girl.
My "advice" does blend in well with the rest of the crappy advice you've gotten, so I ould see it throwing you off lol.

I don't think there's anything wrong with a temporary sex break when you're husband doesn't feel its neccesary to "work" towards fulfilling your needs.



karma*girl said:


> Aribabe! Sorry:/
> I remembered you being so cool, your post took me by surprise, lol!
> I was thrown...and thank you
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Convection

Karma Girl - 

Lot to take in and digest here. I get this is frustrating to you and you are feeling at the end of your rope. 

You asked for people's opinions. Some agreed with your strategy, but most thought you were going about this the wrong way. Take a deep breath and process what you're reading, without buying too deep into any single response. You can try to defend yourself - or you can remember that you're the only one here that is in your marriage. We don't know your husband, you do, and you have a better idea how this will go down with him. This is not how I would have approached this but this is your life to live, so you have to be comfortable with it.

I do ask this: it seems that the only way you are getting *any* emotional connection to your husband is through sex, since he is not meeting your needs in other ways. (Pardon me if I am stretching what you wrote.) So why cut *yourself* off from that connection? You said you thought that would get his attention. Maybe so.

But you also said he has meals made, massages offered, and so forth. What if you slowly stopped doing those things for him? One, you stop meeting his needs (yeah, he hasn't identified his needs but hasn't stopped asking you to do these things either). Two, it frees up time for you to pull back and pursue activities that make you happy. Three, you speak with actions, not with a sit-down, "Hey-I-am-doing-this-to-get-your-attention," which you have already said he admitted that he won't connect. Maybe when he finds you distant, some part of his brain will go, "Wait, she's pulling back." And in the worst case, as you keep pulling back, it will be easier to detach should the worst happen.

Just a thought. Wishing you the best.

Note: Shaking my head, as I can't believe that after ghosting for two years here, this was the thread that finally got me to cross over to the dark side and register.


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## karma*girl

Convection-glad u decided to register.. thank you so much for a level-headed & mature response. 
I appreciate that you recognize where I am coming from & had concrete guidance to offer, as did a few others. Thank you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Convection

Don't get me wrong, KG. I still think it won't work for the long term, since your husband already self-identified that it wouldn't, and you are rupturing what appears to be the only channel for your needs being met.

I would keep that channel open and work at other things that made me happy. You can love your husband and have sex with him - and still take care of your own emotional needs if he won't. Exercise. Go for a manicure. Wine-tasting with a girlfriend. Art class. Join a book club. Volunteer at a pet shelter. Take up hang-gliding in your underwear. If doing those things came at the expense of doing things for your husband ... well, maybe that's something he'll understand.

That said, you gotta do what is right for you and I wish you the best.


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## woundedwarrior

My confusion is this: if you enjoy having sex with him, then your problems can't be that big? Most people, when they are feeling rejected from their needs not being met don't even desire sex with their spouse. The built up hurt & resentment prevents this. It never becomes "I'm cutting you off", it is more of a gradual decline & loss of interest that will really get their attention. I agree with some others that he thinks its just a game you are playing, but he will grow tired, his hurt pride will kick in & you'll be in for a long dry spell. I'm not playing the blame game, I just think all of a sudden pulling the plug on something you were enjoying as well may not give you the solution you want?


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## Blue Firefly

norajane said:


> Yes, and rubbing her nose in it with a giant FU b!tch is a pretty childish response to his wife taking drastic action to get his attention that _they have a problem_.
> 
> In fact, if that's how he always responds when she tries to talk to them about the problems between them, I can see why she is at the end of her rope.


What it is is passive/aggressive. Smiling on the outside while actually doing something mean.

And, if her husband is the passive/aggressive type, her current actions are not going to fix it.


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## Blue Firefly

tacoma said:


> Are you implying porn, masturbation, & flirting are cheating?


They are coping mechanisms.

They remove the pain of the problems you have in marriage. They allow you to get by and live with your problems in marriage.

Consequently, instead of being focused on fixing your marriage problems, you develop an "I can live with this" attitude.


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## JCD

Ooops, sorry Karma.

You asked how smart a sexual hiatus is. I think it's really stupid.

BUT...I never identified a better strategy except for leaving.

But you can always run a 180 on him. STOP meeting all these needs you are providing.

It amazes me that you want to bend over backwards in all of these less marriage threatening ways (massages? Really?) but are jumping right on one of the more important bonding mechanisms.

First off, a man doesn't need sex every day. He DOES need to eat every day. Cutting off the dinners or having a week of crap he doesn't like will give him a wake up call which isn't so...threatening.

If you start going distant in other ways, he'll wake up and smell the kimchee.

But...by being so direct, now you made it a competition. Men are competitive. He's being stupid now.


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## naga75

yes a week or two of tofurkey or spam snadwiches or something is waaaaaay less threatening than the boodie block. and likely to have more favorable results.


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## karma*girl

I know! I wish the food part would've mattered to him, but being the self-sufficient man he is, it would only be a minor inconvenience for him. 

I swear, sex is the LAST thing I wanted to go without myself!

I do have to say that I feel like things are much better..the true test, although it's only been a little while, was seeing how he would follow-through with what I asked, AFTER we resumed our 'normal activities..' 

When I brought up taking a break & my reasoning, he said he understood me, appreciated that I shared my feelings on everything & respected my wishes. That was encouraging.

During our break, he was attentive & showed me what I needed to see, without any prompting from me.

Needless to say, we couldn't stay away from each other for too long & the more he pulled-through, the more I wanted him. ( :

Most importantly, as things are going back to normal, he's CONTINUING to put forth the effort he needs to in order for us to thrive, not just survive.

The difference in our marriage has been really good..I even orgasm waaaay easier with him, whereas before, although it's always good, sometimes took a while. 

It's SOOOO mental! I feel so much freer & more open to him simply because I feel like he fully cares about me.

I'm hoping this will fall under the category of 'short-term loss, long-term gain'...we shall see!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## woundedwarrior

Glad it's working out like you had hoped for & that it continues to improve.


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## karma*girl

Oh, thank you! I am too..knowing him, this was the only way to get him to sit up & notice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## john_lord_b3

Good to hear the improvements! So, the next time he started to slacking off, you will be withholding sex again, mrs karma?


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## seasalt

My wife puts lists on our refrigerator entitled "Things we have to do." (I hate HGtv) There's not one thing on that list she would or could do herself.

Tally the positive things he does do that you would not want to do and stop making your marriage an arm wrestling contest.

Finally, I'm an old guy and have had to this point a very successful and rewarding married life. We celebteated our fortieth a week ago Sunday. If I had one thing to change over the years it would to have had more intimacy when it was most enjoyable and physical not less.

You call yourself Karma*girl. Grow up and become a woman that doesn't get run over by her own bad karma.

Just sayin'

Seasalt


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## TCSRedhead

Maybe I'm just crabby from lack of sleep but you did come here and post the question asking if this was a good idea or a bad idea. The majority stated they felt it was a bad idea.

Then you explain that you've already implemented it, meaning you really didn't want to know our opinions.

What was the point of asking if you'd already done it and it was a firm decision on your part?

Asking for advice/opinions that you have no intention of considering is actually termed as being an 'askhole'.


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## john_lord_b3

TCSRedhead said:


> Maybe I'm just crabby from lack of sleep but you did come here and post the question asking if this was a good idea or a bad idea. The majority stated they felt it was a bad idea.
> 
> Then you explain that you've already implemented it, meaning you really didn't want to know our opinions.
> 
> What was the point of asking if you'd already done it and it was a firm decision on your part?
> 
> Asking for advice/opinions that you have no intention of considering is actually termed as being an *'askhole'*.


:rofl: wow thank you for the new term! I learn something new everyday!!!


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## waiwera

TCSRedhead said:


> Asking for advice/opinions that you have no intention of considering is actually termed as being an 'askhole'.



Wow...how cool is that word... askhole!

I love it.

I live such a quiet sheltered life... this is why i come to TAM!!!


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## karma*girl

That's a new one! : ) I certainly wasn't trying to be an askhole though; )

I came on to ask opinions & feel out what a man's reaction might be. I got great response as I hoped & adjusted my plan accordingly.

Once I learned how people felt about it, I re-evaluated myself. 

I did keep the hiatus going for a time, but because of what I learned here, I ended it much earlier I may have.

However, I feel like if I did choose to keep it going, (after hearing what everyone had to say), at least I would be better armed with knowledge of how it may affect my man & our relationship..all things I needed to know. Asking candid questions here is never a waste & for those willing to be open, as I explained I was... there is always learning to be had & horizons to be broadened.

I'm thankful for the straight-forward guidance. I expect it everytime I come & I am never disappointed!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TCSRedhead

I would think you'd have led off explaining you'd already done this but that's just me.

I wish you luck, truly. I find that type of reward/punishment model to be manipulative and certainly not the way I'd want to operate my marriage in the long term.


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## karma*girl

Hmm, I think I did explain it, in my opening post. 

I know you (& others) thought it was a bad idea & that's completely understandable. 

Thanks for the luck, if you actually meant it. : /
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## karma*girl

Oh & John_lord...no, if things fall back, we'll be going a different route.

When I explained to him how it didn't feel right & the reasons for it. He smiled & said, aww, it's okay & said he 'got' why I did what I did. 

It was really good to have that reassurance, on both our ends.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## john_lord_b3

karma*girl said:


> Oh & John_lord...no, if things fall back, we'll be going a different route.
> 
> When I explained to him how it didn't feel right & the reasons for it. He smiled & said, aww, it's okay & said he 'got' why I did what I did.
> 
> It was really good to have that reassurance, on both our ends.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Mrs. Karma, nice to hear that. In my country, there is a saying "an egg will break only once". Your Lysistrata technique might work now, and I am actually relieved that it actually worked for the betterment of your marriage. But no guarantee that it will work again in the future, so any plan to re-use the same tactic might not yield the same result!

Anyway, have a good weekend for you and your family.


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## Chris Taylor

karma*girl said:


> Oh & John_lord...no, if things fall back, we'll be going a different route.
> 
> When I explained to him how it didn't feel right & the reasons for it. He smiled & said, aww, it's okay & said he 'got' why I did what I did.
> 
> It was really good to have that reassurance, on both our ends.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Just be careful. He said he "got" it, but he may be hurt realizing that you used sex as a means to get what you wanted.

So in the future, when you ask for a certain vacation, will he think "If I don't agree, will sex disappear?"

Further, you may have signaled him that "blackmail" is the way to go. So when YOU want something done and you two haven't been intimate, how will you feel if he says "Sure I'll do it. As soon as you let me f*** you."


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## Blue Firefly

Chris Taylor said:


> Further, you may have signaled him that "blackmail" is the way to go. So when YOU want something done and you two haven't been intimate, how will you feel if he says "Sure I'll do it. As soon as you let me f*** you."


Or, "...as soon as you let me f*** you in the ass then come on your face while you're wearing a Winnie the Pooh outfit."

If you're trading sex for chores, why shouldn't he start negotiating the terms of the trade. Your offering to pay him with sex. What if he demands a raise in pay? Why do you think he'll eternally accept working for "minimum wage" sex.


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## woundedwarrior

That's a can of worms I would never have opened, but good luck.


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## lalsr1988

Isn't it something that I agreed with every word of Aribabes sarcastic post?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## karma*girl

The thing is, we do all sorts of things together, I don't have worries about trying kinky things, etc..well, to a point of course.
So I know (& he knows) he couldn't really hold that over me. 

Besides, that would be ridiculous to withhold something if I didn't let him cum on my face. He's a good man & would never ever say something so lame to me. (At least he hasn't in the past 20 years..)
He could say he doesn't want to have sex with me until I follow through with meeting his emotional needs. That, I'd listen to & understand.
If I wasn't paying attention to the way I was acting & he asked me to change something for him, but I just didn't? 
I wouldn't be surprised if he wanted to hold off on intimacy until we met on common grounds. 
That happens in relationships all the time. Only diff here is that I said it out loud. 
I'm not passive aggressive at all. 
If I think you should know something, I'll tell you. I like communication, it's obviously very important.

However, in practice, asking for a break from intimacy felt pretty strange.
I'm certainly not the wife to regularly give 'rewards/punishments' so it felt out of character.
But it did help. He is not concerned about us not having sex if things get off kilter again.
Because when things get 'off' between us, sex naturally slows down until we see eye to eye again, even though we both have a pretty healthy libido. We always love sex, but if it doesn't feel right at a certain time, it doesn't feel right. 
Again, that's totally normal. 

I love sex with my husband, but won't do it if I'm not feeling right about it. 
He's the same..he will not let me get close if we aren't being mutually respectful, etc..
Luckily, a majority of the time, we are close & show it. 

Aribabe's post was beautifully sarcastic..I fell right for it. 
I'd never in ten million years spread my legs for someone if they weren't earning it. 
No woman should.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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