# How do you (let) thaw things out?



## less_disgruntled (Oct 16, 2010)

To be clear, I don't think my marriage can be saved right now. The MC suggested that we not talk to each other, or interact except on necessities, but really this "space" was all we both needed to decide we were unhappy with each other.

Which still feels wrong to me, I made vows, not "baby, I want to spend the next three to seven years with you".

I don't know but something is missing here. I think I froze my wife out too much. I think our marriage counselor made things worse by raising the stakes on us. I think by getting cold my wife became less likely to want to engage with me, on anything.

Could be wrong, though. Could be that my wife didn't like being in counseling b/c it meant that now she had to pull her scams on two people, making it a lot harder.

So I guess what I want to ask is how I can be more "available" if my wife does want to come to Jesus on any of this without coming off as weak and apologetic.

I might be delusional here, but by not interacting with my wife I think I'm sending her the message that she isn't going to get her needs fulfilled in our marriage. Not, at this point, that I really want to fulfill them, but I don't know, I'm thinking she's seeing me being cold as me being frozen, so what reasons does she have to change?

Like I said I could be delusional here. I can tell I'm holding some hope that things will get better, but it's getting to the point where I myself need intimacy (not just sex) and I realize I can't break down and try to get that from my wife.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

That sounds like bad advice from the counselor. How can someone save a marriage by not talking to each other.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Less,

Start by being more attractive and win "man points" with her.

I'll bet you have some idea of what she likes/liked in you.

Be that man again - for starters.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html


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## Robrobb (Jun 18, 2010)

Sadly, like most things in life, there are good marriage counselors and bad ones. Or, at the least, there are counselors who are right for you and those who are wrong. 

My wife and I went to a counselor for a couple of months who was as passive as could be, which is the absolute wrong counselor for two people who had withdrawn from one another as we did. A couple of months later we switched to another counselor (recommended by a friend) who immediately engaged us and led to a useful discussion. 

For what it's worth, I feel as you do, that this commitment I made to her is vitally important. I'm afraid that she's suffering from a deeper problem than unhappiness in our marriage, and to leave her now, which is what it's come to for us, feels like abandonment and another source of shame. We too did an extended period of non-interaction based in part on the counselor's advice and on her desire to be left alone, and it's added to rather than relieved the difficulty. We'd have been better off with routine, specific interaction on a daily basis. For example, have a meal together every day and discuss one topic - yard work, child's school, current events, just something that leads you to talk to one another in some way regularly. Now I can ask to have a ten-minute serious discussion of the future for a week before she grants me an audience, then she can't look at me during the tense discussion we do have. Whatever you do, keep the lines of communication open!


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## less_disgruntled (Oct 16, 2010)

Conrad said:


> Less,
> 
> Start by being more attractive and win "man points" with her.
> 
> ...


That's the easy part, it's the figuring out how to read her that's not.

I know that the rule is that I should wait for her to initiate sex or affection, but I keep getting this mixed signal from her, like she's kind of afraid of me. Also of course that she's unhappy with me but also that she's trying to fix things.

I am probably too cold normally, so I don't know how to gauge her efforts.

I'm seeing these little gestures from my wife. She asks permission for a lot more stuff--I'm not sure if she's asking permission or just being considerate enough to let me know what the f_ck she's got on her calendar today. But like the other night she bought a bottle of Chimay and opened it. That's way too much for her. I think she asked me twice if I was going to drink any--I wasn't. She even saved some, put it in a glass in the fridge, and then when I didn't drink it she got out of bed and went and finished it while I was up working. About two weeks ago she put a blanket on me in the basement while I was trying to sleep, thinking I was cold. When she did that I almost sat up and asked her what she was doing, but fortunately didn't.

It's that crap on my end. Like I'm so damn territorial and I'm maybe holding her to a standard I shouldn't.

Also I wish she'd ****ing read some or any of this damn marriage advice bull****. Not that I'm mentioning it or leaving books out or letting her know I'm looking at them. It's just that I feel like she doesn't know what to do, but doesn't know how to learn what to do, either.

But then there's this stuff that looks a lot like "let's be friends" which I absolutely positively will not stand. I'll be friends with her after we split up--if she gets a hot roommate. Anyway she sent me an email with a link "i thought you'd like this article" b/c she was trying to "understand" me and felt like it was the type of thing I'd like... I didn't respond b/c 1. I didn't like the article 2. she doesn't need to "understand" me if I'm not telling her something 3. it felt like a trap 4. I never respond to email or voice messages that aren't about business

But... was it a trap? I can't tell whether it was a test or not. She mentioned it again when she got home. Twice. I said "It was factually inaccurate, generally wrong and reactionary" and she said "I thought you'd like it. I thought it was tongue-in-cheek" which I couldn't figure out... I am not quick on my feet and don't "get" things sometimes.

See? Paranoid-territorial again.

Now that doesn't mean I won't end the marriage for my sake, especially not if I didn't see effort on her part. I said that to her in MC, mostly b/c I felt like she was trying to be controlling. Meant it, too. Would have gotten papers and signed them the next day if it didn't take a year of physical separation.

I guess the question is, what are those efforts? Are they legit? Are they tests? I don't know, I'm suspicious and cranky too much.


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## less_disgruntled (Oct 16, 2010)

Robrobb said:


> Sadly, like most things in life, there are good marriage counselors and bad ones. Or, at the least, there are counselors who are right for you and those who are wrong.


Our counselor is actually pretty good, at least as far as I can tell. I'm not 100% behind the counselor but she's a lot smarter than the one we had, the first MC we got was recommended by my shrink, only it turns out that first MC was just a life coach (had a degree though) who pretended to be a family counselor on the side.



> For what it's worth, I feel as you do, that this commitment I made to her is vitally important. I'm afraid that she's suffering from a deeper problem than unhappiness in our marriage, and to leave her now, which is what it's come to for us, feels like abandonment and another source of shame. We too did an extended period of non-interaction based in part on the counselor's advice and on her desire to be left alone, and it's added to rather than relieved the difficulty. We'd have been better off with routine, specific interaction on a daily basis. For example, have a meal together every day and discuss one topic - yard work, child's school, current events, just something that leads you to talk to one another in some way regularly. Now I can ask to have a ten-minute serious discussion of the future for a week before she grants me an audience, then she can't look at me during the tense discussion we do have. Whatever you do, keep the lines of communication open!


I think that this is a lot better than the advice the MC gave us. I think my situation is similar to yours--there is a lot of **** that's *not* part of the marriage that my wife is pretending isn't an issue but it really is and has been, but that itself is an issue. I don't want to say she's "depressed" because I'm not sure that's true but it's like that. I'm not going to lie, I'm responsible for a lot of ****. To start I get angry too much and have been either pretty boring, or just unavailable and not willing to spend time with her doing things she needs to do, since I went back to school full time and am still working 20 hours a week.

And I never ****ing "listened" in a way that would let me know what it was she truly wanted.

But still, there's more to this marriage than my problems and me, and there's more to both of us than the marriage. I think it's been helpful to keep more space and distance, but I think our MC told us to go to far. Like at the last session she said "either one of you could have broken the rules and decided to talk to each other". We're not the experts here, but that's the problem--sometimes you need the expert advice for more than a few hours a month. Like maybe google-video streamed or something.


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## less_disgruntled (Oct 16, 2010)

less_disgruntled said:


> That's the easy part, it's the figuring out how to read her that's not.


Talked to my shrink about this (and my childhood). He suggested not to read much into these actions--it could just be that she wants to "end on a good note" so she could say that to her friends and family when I'm not around next Christmas.

I did make the mistake of misreading her last night trying to warm things up. I thought we were staying up watching TV because she wanted to spend time with me--wrong, she just didn't have to go in to the office.

Which kind of makes me want to go on an unrepentant adulterous spree so instead all her friends will think I'm a dog, like let's bring in some "with cause" here. It is nice being able to look sideways at women again, I feel good about myself. Because it's not "needing validation" if I'm doing it on purpose, right? I don't want my STBX's family or friends to think we "ended on a good note".

I need to get over this vindictive thing.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

I don't know what your history is, so I'm not sure how to respond ( searching this site on a BBerry is impossible)...

Did she have an affair, or are you just growing distant?

If she had an affair and you are blocking her, then there is nothing you can do differently. Also, if your so vindictive, just end it now. It's not going to change for the better in a week, a month, or a year. Just set both of you free and get on with your lives already.

If you are just growing distant, then I need to tell you to get your head out of your a$$ already. You already reduced the temperature to absolute zero, your wife is trying to respond, and now you are still at absolute zero? That's just emotional abuse. Again, get out now. Why drag it out?  If you really don't want to end it, then start responding to your wife already! She emails you at work...email her back like she's the most important thought on your mind. This isn't being beta. It's being loving. Your comment about work emails just being for work, while ethically valid in a work sense, is really just an excuse for you to avoid talking to your wife. She thought you would like an article. So what? Tell her thanks, but I didn't agree with it, etc. Use it as a means to expand your communication...you know...a friendly debate topic with your wife. Don't criticize her for thinking about a potential interest of your and following up on it. 
She brings you a blanket? Say thanks! It's not a freakin test. She's probably trying to raise the temperature a bit. Show you she still cares. It's obvious you don't. Think she can't see that? Think it's not going to just drive you further apart? 

You seem very bitter. Let it go already. If you don't, it will destroy you. Letting your bitterness consume you is the exact opposite of manning up. It shows you as still weak and have no personal control over your emotions. Think of it this way...if you remain so bitter, do you think that all those single ladies out there are going to be attracted to that?!

Life's too short. Get over it, and get on with it.

There.....that's my marriage advise bulls!!t.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## less_disgruntled (Oct 16, 2010)

alphaomega said:


> Did she have an affair, or are you just growing distant?


It's distance and us butting heads.

So much of this is my fault, but at this point I've been trying so damn hard to fix the unattractive **** about myself for my own sake and to be a better spouse, you know, independent but present, that I don't know, it really feels like she hasn't been there for months and months.



> Tell her thanks, but I didn't agree with it, etc. Use it as a means to expand your communication...you know...a friendly debate topic with your wife. Don't criticize her for thinking about a potential interest of your and following up on it.


But this is why it's complicated. Every "friendly" topic for about four or five months has, in fact, been a test. Maybe she was honest about that last one, but the time before that my efforts to 'communicate' actually led to her deciding that we needed to separate. She brought that up in MC the next day and the counselor agreed, which has really shut things down.

See what I'm getting at here? I don't think there's been an honest effort at communication in months now. The time before that when she found something she thought would interest me it was the same story. And the time before that... I know at this point it's not me being too negative or sarcastic or cynical because I can be matter-of-fact and earnest and try to posit a positive alternative... and it's still going to make her blow up. It's like a test on a test... don't tell me you want me to open up to you and then try to slap me when I do it when you ask!

If that's me 'seeking approval' because I'm trying not to be an *******, I don't know what to do. I suck enough at emotions and being empathetic already.


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## less_disgruntled (Oct 16, 2010)

alphaomega said:


> Think of it this way...if you remain so bitter, do you think that all those single ladies out there are going to be attracted to that?!


I was planning on treating them as objects until I felt like I'd evened myself out.


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## just_a_guy (Mar 15, 2011)

less_disgruntled said:


> I was planning on treating them as objects until I felt like I'd evened myself out.


Suppose your wife is feeling like one of those objects?
One thing that I have learned to help me better communicate over time with my wife is to separate myself from me when it came to any kind of heated discussion. Or any time I felt upset about something. Look at how crazy you look... 
I would see nothing wrong with my own actions and instantly point it out as a negative on tv. My wife and I had a lot of resentment and tension built up, I had to really focus on me to make me work out. It's not on you and your wife. It sounds like it is a lot on you. Maybe it's not an MC that you need but individual therapy my friend. 
Check into it. You have way more aggression and resentment built up than you are allowing yourself to believe.
Show you rwife you can be vulnerable. Even if it makes you sick. None of it will go away until you guys pretend it never happened and start it over. It sounds drastic a drab but I am telling you, it will work.


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## airplane (Mar 15, 2011)

less_disgruntled said:


> I think our marriage counselor made things worse by raising the stakes on us. .


You need to run away from that counselor, they should be working on getting the two of you talking !

Like using 

Mirroring

Validating

Empathy

And yes it's hard but if you practice enough it can become second nature


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## anx (Nov 30, 2010)

> Mirroring
> 
> Validating
> 
> Empathy


 YES!!!



> But like the other night she bought a bottle of Chimay and opened it. That's way too much for her. I think she asked me twice if I was going to drink any--I wasn't. She even saved some, put it in a glass in the fridge, and then when I didn't drink it she got out of bed and went and finished it while I was up working.


 I would have had a glass and hoped for sex, but that just me.

Neither of you trusts the other person and you are both so hurt you can't communicate. You really have to mechanism by which to figure any of this out or fix this outside of what you do in MC. OR, directly asking permission or intentions of the other person.

MC is an emotional rollercoaster of a mind F*ck. It may still work out between you to, but it still needs a lot of time.


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## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

Focus on yourself, communicate honestly with your wife, work out, kill the "serious" vibe in the household, and mix things up so that you're spontaneous. There's plenty of reading to be had on this forum about some of these points, but I think that's a good mixture for you to go with for now.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Less,

Experience indicates women have a deep need for verbal connection.

How are you at conversation. In particular, do you have a feel for clever banter?


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## less_disgruntled (Oct 16, 2010)

Conrad said:


> Less,
> 
> Experience indicates women have a deep need for verbal connection.
> 
> How are you at conversation. In particular, do you have a feel for clever banter?



I did. I can be clever, or was. I've had to tone it down b/c I can be biting. My wife used to tell me I was funny. Been worried that when I try to be funny at home it's got too much edge or comes off as "trying".

But It's hard to say now. I don't think I've really spoken to my wife that much in the past month and a half and been having trouble concentrating on anything long enough to remember WTF I was saying to anyone else. Feel like my efforts at jokes are falling flat, my delivery is way off and mis-timed, etc. in a way that I may as well say "did I tell you my marriage is falling apart? har har!" every time I open my mouth.

I know one problem is things can't be "clever" b/c that means "funny" and "funny" sounds like "fun". With my wife is that I'm not "fun" enough. She wants to do things four or five nights a week and to spend money we don't have traveling just about every weekend. I've said we can't afford this. I coulda/shoulda/woulda decided that we'd do yours-mine-ours with the money a long time ago and stick her with those expenses. Hindsight and all.


I don't know WTF is going on with counseling. We've been to two counselors in a row that haven't made any effort to really get us communicating. Maybe that's what you get with a two-year degree but it's making me feel like it's not the counselor, it's me.

I actually brought this up at the beginning of the last counseling session. We have one tomorrow. I am going to ask WTF it is that the counselor isn't being more involved besides having my wife say that she wants to leave because she doesn't like me and having me tell my wife that she's been negligent and irresponsible since we've been married.

I've been afraid to bring up the issue of empathy/hurt/whatever in counseling b/c I was afraid that would make me sound needy, but at this point I need actual goddamn practical help, not "well you all have a decision to make".


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Less,

My experience is that humor dies when tensions are high.

Dark sarcasm that has the edge of resentment only makes things worse.

Self-effacing humor can draw attention to the big things - but it must be done openly.

Have you been to individual counseling?

My experience indicates that self-effacing humor only "works" if you are right with yourself. The deep meaning behind the dark sarcasm exposes you.


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## less_disgruntled (Oct 16, 2010)

Conrad said:


> Less,
> 
> My experience is that humor dies when tensions are high.
> 
> ...


Yeah, no disagreement on any of this. I find myself second-guessing completely innocent stuff for all these reasons. I'm in IC. I don't do sarcasm but people mistake ironic and quirky for sarcasm.

I usually laugh pretty easily, too! I find a lot of stuff funnier than most people do! Maybe I laugh too much? I don't think so, I think that Dexter and Breaking Bad are degrading, not funny.


I can do self-effacing, I think.

"Tensions" have been high ***outside*** the relationship, too, or were for months and months on end. My wife didn't make much of it at the time but FFS it was bad, at least to me.


When I think about it I know part of the problem is that I don't think my wife wants to thaw things out. She is moving out, then moving away, end of story, is what she says. I don't want to share any excitement with her like "hey I'm thinking about using some of my expense check to to buy an expensivie weighted vest so I can make day trips to hiking trails feel like more of a chore so I can be happier doing them!" because that sounds approval-seeking. But if I tack on "besides after we separate it'll help me live out childhood superhero fantasies", maybe.

I'm just feeling like everything I do is unattractive to my wife. Organizing my paperwork and doing research is too nerdy. I've started inviting her to go places with me then going without her and... she acts like she doesn't approve of the idea when I mention it then doesn't care when I'm back home. I don't need her to care to do them but it would be a good sign... OTOH I think I invited her places the first three or years we were together and she rarely ever went.

Which is bothering me now. She's the one who said I was no fun.

Trying to cover my bases, though:

quality time--inviting her when I go somewhere. also trying to be home more
acts of service--I clean the ****ing house and have always done it of my own accord. I rubbed her shoulders tonight even thought it was hard
words--been trying to talk to her and ask her about stuff w/out getting deep. Any time I've said anything affectionate she's gotten hostile and I've walked away instead. it's mostly just "please" and "thank you" and "how was your day" but no details even when I start asking more.
touch--been afraid this one will be needy. I know how to touch in a way that will be accepted without "asking" but I am wary of crossing that line right now, though I want to. (non-sexual. my libido died recently.)
gifts--not sure about this, not sure what to do here. I made her a card for Valentine's Day THAT I DIDN'T GIVE TO HER because she spent the entire morning yelling at me

We had those last three plenty, I think, before things got bad. Except for "words of affirmation". We talked but I could have used more verbal approval, actually probably needed her to talk more to me about practical things to feel like they were okay.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Less,

Males who are chronic "fixers" and caretakers pretty much dead on "words of affirmation".

We simply want praise. And, if we give in to our "needy" side, we can manipulate situations to put ourselves in position for praise.

In short - what will over time be seen as boorish behavior.

BUT - we want to conquer the world for our women.

What good is it if nobody notices?

In the end, you have to notice and give that affirmation to yourself. Might sound kind of babblish, but I can tell you it works.

As for touching? The non-sexual touching thread currently in this forum says it better than anything I can say.

Simply look your best, smell your best, walk erect and confident. And employ those techniques.

In terms of quirky humor? I do that too. And - egad - sometimes I laugh at my own jokes.

Real attractive. I'm sure it comes across as needy. Perhaps at one time in my life, it was.


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## less_disgruntled (Oct 16, 2010)

No disagreement here, I am working hard on making sure I acknowledge what I do, and minding my appearance and attitude and actions and words, and have been for a long time now. Can't fix this slouch in my t-spine w/out a chiropractor though, but whatever. Something else is missing though I can't see what it is. I know I haven't been as available to her as I should--but she is gone and has such a full schedule independent of me this makes it hard. It doesn't matter how attractive I might seem if it's just me and the dog and the cats.

It's true that we used to spend more time together when we had it, but she was still doing her own thing a lot. She just might be too high maintenance for me, because I wanted to "conquer the world" for my own sake, but when I tried to back off from that a little so there could be an "us"... I saw that she hadn't been spending much time there, either.


I'm thinking about firing this MC.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

I would highly recommend one that has knowledge of Internal Family Systems therapy - IFS.

The stuff makes your issues crystal clear - and helps you deal with them at the source.


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## less_disgruntled (Oct 16, 2010)

Conrad said:


> I would highly recommend one that has knowledge of Internal Family Systems therapy - IFS.
> 
> The stuff makes your issues crystal clear - and helps you deal with them at the source.




Again, I can see where that would be helpful--I told the counselor I was unhappy with the MC, that I was disappointed that we hadn't been doing things that were more practical in the sessions and that I felt like my wife was doing things to sabotage the MC, including disregarding their advice when we got it. The MC said, essentially, "this really hasn't been MC since you've been here. A couple can commit to marriage counseling, or they can not." and my wife said she couldn't commit to MC. So I said we were done and we left.

Yes, I was angry about this. Because I'm sad and my willingness to work through things has been more or less exploited.

Not that I have anyone to share that with safely.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

less_disgruntled said:


> Again, I can see where that would be helpful--I told the counselor I was unhappy with the MC, that I was disappointed that we hadn't been doing things that were more practical in the sessions and that I felt like my wife was doing things to sabotage the MC, including disregarding their advice when we got it. The MC said, essentially, "this really hasn't been MC since you've been here. A couple can commit to marriage counseling, or they can not." and my wife said she couldn't commit to MC. So I said we were done and we left.
> 
> Yes, I was angry about this. Because I'm sad and my willingness to work through things has been more or less exploited.
> 
> Not that I have anyone to share that with safely.


Have you had individual sessions?


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## less_disgruntled (Oct 16, 2010)

Conrad said:


> Have you had individual sessions?


I don't want to hog/cross-post so I'll deal w/ it here.

Anyway, I've resolved to be as friendly and available to and attractive for my wife as I can be when I have major deadlines every few days for the next three weeks. I am trying to be fun and thaw things out. I'll think about counseling again if we are able to get any closer without it or if my wife suggests it.

My current plan is 1. fight for marriage 2. be less of an @ssh_le 3. go to counseling if we're still married at some point in the future

I am going to email my wife something of an apology.

We each had one individual session w/ this counselor.

The rest have been as a couple. I just looked up a list of bad counseling traits. The MC let us fight in every session except one. She let me interrupt my wife unchecked in all but two sessions. She let my wife speak for me in all but one. This happened in every session. The counselor suggested we "separate" to get "space" and "perspective" and that a "separation isn't divorce". We had to ask the MC for practical coaching and rarely got it.

We talked about family-of-origin stuff in the first session. It seemed like the counselor 'understood' what she was doing then. After that it all fell apart. On edit both my wife and I mentioned family-of-origin stuff multiple times and it was never discussed.

The MC had won me over w/ apparent empathy, though, and having seemed competent in one or two sessions. She seemed more fair about letting us get equal time.

I've said this so many times. I am deeply, deeply committed to my marriage and it was not something I did lightly. It was scary to commit. It actually meant something. I don't need this "marriage neutral" imperative in *MARRIAGE* *counseling*.


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## less_disgruntled (Oct 16, 2010)

Am I allowed to tell me wife that "I need" her to be more physically/chronologically available at home for times that also work for me--my schedule is flexible but not very open--if she wants to see our home to be happier? Or is that too needy? It's a ****ing logistical fact. I don't want to say "If you want to be happy in this marriage" b/c that makes me sound like a condescending *******. I'm the one who wants our marriage to be happier.

I know it's bad form and needy to "talk about the relationship" but at this point we haven't talked about it since the damn honeymoon. Like I need to be able to... say something. logistical. simple. practical. obvious. that needs her to get involved and to communicate about practical crap. (Which is what I needed for a long time now! Why do I have to go through a separation to learn when she's going to get home at night?)

"Unless you want me to kidnap you"?

Because for about a year now she's been driving round for work, or going to yoga classes until 9pm, or visiting friends every other weekend, and it makes it difficult for me to "be fun" or meet any of her needs when she's... never... here.

Like her complaint is "we live separate lives". Okay, she's 50% guilty for that, full stop! I'm not going to press that b/c she's immune to realizing that she's dysfunctional too but still.

FWIW this went on before we started having major troubles. I just didn't see it as a problem then. It obviously is though.


At the same time I just don't ****ing know.


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## less_disgruntled (Oct 16, 2010)

Last post tonight. I have some mixed optimism. Have been able to get physically closer and touch my wife though I can tell sometimes she's wary but I ignore this. I am trying to be more attractive and friendlier and "raise the thermostat" and restore the various "love utility services" around here as much as I can. I'll worry about problems I have with things my wife does later.

I'm also going to stop getting ****ing neurotic about **** like "does this make me needy"? Who cares? I'm trying and if I'm not doing needy **** but necessary things--you know, things that "need" to happen the way you need to screw a light bulb in to get light--then if that comes off as needy to my wife, that's on her. She can go find some pushover she'll leave, too.

Getting rushed out of an incompetent counselor's office may have been a good thing.



To get psychobabbling again a couple hours ago I thought what happened was a bunch of transference where I was mad at my wife, where I felt belittled and frustrated by her and where I was putting some of that on the counselor. I had to run some errands after the MC session but when I got home my wife and I were pleasant w/ ea. other. The MC never should have let us fight in sessions or let us disrespect ea. other the way she did--turns out she's a "family" and children's counselor. (facepalm). Realized I was actually not "transferring" but actually disappointed IN THE COUNSELOR for not taking a more active COUNSELING role and instead letting us turn her office into a battleground.

Still mad that she told us to avoid each other. I can't believe I listened to that suggestion, but i trusted in her authority. All it did was make things frigid in this house.


MORAL: If your MC wants you to communicate with your spouse *less* and you already think that's the biggest issue in the marriage, leave and ignore him/her. The counselor, that is.


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## anx (Nov 30, 2010)

Any luck finding a new MC? Are things any better?


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