# Husband literally spit in my face



## Cherry

Sooooo after an incredible love making session last night, this morning I asked him if he'd get up with crying child at 5:20 this morning. I normally am the one up but alas I was tired. We got into a screaming argument, I got ready for work and proceeded to leave. He comes to the car window and literally spit in my face. What would you do????
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Layla83

oh my word my dear. I would get out and kick his knees. No but really you are of more value. Do not allow yourself to be belittled in that manner. Oh I would have snapped.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DanF

Time to go...


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## chillymorn

Cherry said:


> Sooooo after an incredible love making session last night, this morning I asked him if he'd get up with crying child at 5:20 this morning. I normally am the one up but alas I was tired. We got into a screaming argument, I got ready for work and proceeded to leave. He comes to the car window and literally spit in my face. What would you do????
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is a time where you need to be very mad and comunicate that either he apoligise or get out. that type of behavior is totaly unacceptable and has NO place in a marriage.

He nees to show he is sorry for acting like a 10yr old.

I would even sugest he take some anger management classes.No normal person spits in there loved ones face either he is commited to change or the next time he might hit you or worse whats he going to be like when your baby is older and needs disaplined. Very poor behavior totaly unacceptable.

PUT YOUR FOOT DOWN HARD ON THIS.


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## Cherry

I haven't answered his calls for the past 30 mins... He's threatening to come up to my job. 

chillymorn - He's hit me before, so I think in his mind this isn't "abuse".... I know it is. 

I'm so ****ing pissed right now. Here I am standing up for my marriage reconciliation to my whole family and I get spit in the face at 6:30 in the morning. I even went above and beyond with the sex session last night - in that he got anal... I don't like anal, but he loves it... So I did it and he got a BJ to boot. And a mere 6 to 7 hours later that same man that I'm trying to please, above and beyond, spits in my face. Gawd, I'm ****ing stupid as hell to think he can change.


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## Layla83

Don't feel silly because you went the extra mile with the sex. Its your husband and you did what you thought was right. With that being said, you need to run away from this situation. They so very often find their way back into our arms. Do not go soft on him. This is really terrible.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CandieGirl

Your husband is an abusive bully. I wouldn't (and haven't) put up with that kind of crap. Do you really want your children growing up thinking that this is normal behaviour?


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## Cherry

No I don't want them to, this is not normal behavior, I know that. If I had the means, I would be gone. I don't know what to do anymore. I really don't.


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## Jamison

Cherry said:


> Sooooo after an incredible love making session last night, this morning I asked him if he'd get up with crying child at 5:20 this morning. I normally am the one up but alas I was tired. We got into a screaming argument, I got ready for work and proceeded to leave. He comes to the car window and literally spit in my face. What would you do????
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Talk about disrespect. He just showed you who he was, big time! Or maybe he has before and you didn't believe him. Its time to believe him!


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## CandieGirl

Cherry said:


> No I don't want them to, this is not normal behavior, I know that. If I had the means, I would be gone. I don't know what to do anymore. I really don't.


I've heard this many times, here on TAM and from friends of my very own. All I can say is where there's a will there's a way. It will be HARD at first but it IS possible. I've done it twice (live in boyfriends). One of them spat in my face once, that's why your post struck a chord. I can still remember it clear as day and it was over 20 years ago! 

You seem to have a job and a vehicle, so you can pack a few thigns and leave if you had to. Any friends/family? If he's being abusive, what about a women's shelter at least temporarily?


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## Jamison

Cherry said:


> No I don't want them to, this is not normal behavior, I know that. If I had the means, I would be gone. I don't know what to do anymore. I really don't.


I know you say you don't have the means, I'm assuming you mean financially. Well, turn the situation around for a minute. What IF he up and left you and the kids? You would then HAVE to find a way anyway. See what I mean? Its time to figure out what you know you need to do, and proceed.


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## Cherry

CandieGirl said:


> You seem to have a job and a vehicle, so you can pack a few thigns and leave if you had to. Any friends/family? If he's being abusive, what about a women's shelter at least temporarily?


No, I just told my family to either except my reconciliation or get out of my life... There is no way I'm crawling back now... I have called a shelter before when he hit me. I guess it's time for me to stop thinking he will change. This was probably one of the biggest shockers since we've been back together. I chalked up his physical abuse to Jack Daniels, so I justified that on some level. I can't justify this, even if I think long and hard about what transpired this morning. It's mind-blowing. I am so at a loss right now  I didn't answer my phone this morning, so he comes up to my job to try and corner me into talking to him? This bullying behavior is so beyond anything I've ever seen. This isn't me, this can't be my life. I don't get it. I really don't.


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## CandieGirl

In 1974 my father jumped over the counter at my Mom's work and started beating the crap out of her right in front of everyone. She left him. I was 4 years old and don't remember much about those days, nothing good anyway, but I'm grateful that she did it. She too, had to eat humble pie because of her family - but the only other option would have been to stay with him and live with/subject him to the abuse.


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## chillymorn

I didn't know he has hit you before!

time to get out!! crawl back to your family and tell them they were right....becayse they were. tell them thankyou for caring enough about me to try to get me to realise how dumb I was being. 

they are your family and were trying to help and they will continue to help thats what families are for. lose the pride and embrace your family. your biting your nose off to spite your face in not letting them know and not letting them help you.


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## RDJ

I am a firm believer in doing everything you can possibly do to save a marriage. BUT, there is one boundry that should NEVER be crossed. HE CROSSED IT!

This in no longer about your marriage, it's about YOU and your Children. You have to do whats best for you and your child.


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## Mike188

How did it escalate from you asking him to get the baby to a screaming fight to him spitting in your face? What were you fighting about?


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## CallaLily

Please do NOT stay and teach your kids this is how relationships work! 

No one can make you leave, but I will tell you, the minute you start to think more of yourself and kids, will be the minute you do leave. Self respect is a wonderful thing to have, and right now it appears you don't have any. 

What would do if you decided to stay and he did something horrible to your child(ren)? Do you want to live with that for the rest of your life? Any man who can hit you and sure enough spit in your face and do things to your child too! Just remember that.


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## Jellybeans

Cherry said:


> He comes to the car window and literally spit in my face. What would you do????
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





Cherry said:


> I haven't answered his calls for the past 30 mins... He's threatening to come up to my job.
> 
> He's hit me before, so I think in his mind this isn't "abuse".... I know it is.


I am sorry this happened to you. t sounds like it's not the first time since you said you have stayed in a shelter before when he hit you. People don't change unless they want to. 
By staying w/ him in this dynamic, you are teaching your children that this is a normal marriage and the way a relationship works. 

Whatever the argument was about -- he had absolutely no right to spit in your face and has no right to hit you. 

He is treating you like an animal, worse, actually. 

My advice would be to get away from this guy. You must tell him in no uncertain terms that his behavior is totally unacceptable and that you will not stand for it any longer. Then follow through with a consequence. He has a problem with boundaries and not respecting them.


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## Cherry

Mike188 said:


> How did it escalate from you asking him to get the baby to a screaming fight to him spitting in your face? What were you fighting about?


Because I asked if he would get up and tend to one of children who had woke up... it became a "I don't wake up to tend to babies all hours of the night, etc" back and forth thing. I decided to leave 30 min before I typically do because of the arguing. He followed me to the car, I put my window down and he spit in my face. That was that. Now he's telling me he was justified in doing that because I walked away from the argument.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LimboGirl

Cherry said:


> Because I asked if he would get up and tend to one of children who had woke up... it became a "I don't wake up to tend to babies all hours of the night, etc" back and forth thing. I decided to leave 30 min before I typically do because of the arguing. He followed me to the car, I put my window down and he spit in my face. That was that. Now he's telling me he was justified in doing that because I walked away from the argument.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I personally can't think of anything that would justify his behavior.


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## YinPrincess

What the HELL??? Having been in an abusive relationship before, I know it takes time and energy to get out, even when you KNOW it's the right thing to do, and you have to be READY for it, (much like quitting an addition), but this really ticks me off. I was with a man who shoved me, slapped me, kicked me, but never spat on me... For some reason this just feels like a new low!! I know it's hard to believe, but there are men out there who won't hit and spit, no matter how provoked they might feel. You deserve better than this. Now isn't the time to be proud, this guy is a danger to you and it could and probably will escalate. I am so sorry he treated you this way... How awful to start the day like this!!! Take action and make it stick, for your own well-being.  this makes me so ANGRY!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mindful Coach

Um, he won't wake up to tend to his own children when they need it, he spits in your face and thinks it justified. I think you owe your family a huge apology, you were wrong - they weren't. Allow them to support you and your children at this time. It's only going to get worse. He's hit you before and is still excusing horrible behavior. I'm sure he thinks it's your fault he HAD to act like that. Honey, get out while your children are still young enough to see that life can be lived without abuse.


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## A Bit Much

Mindful Coach said:


> Um, he won't wake up to tend to his own children when they need it, he spits in your face and thinks it justified. I think you owe your family a huge apology, you were wrong - they weren't. Allow them to support you and your children at this time. It's only going to get worse. He's hit you before and is still excusing horrible behavior. I'm sure he thinks it's your fault he HAD to act like that. Honey, get out while your children are still young enough to see that life can be lived without abuse.



:iagree::iagree::iagree:

This is crazy.


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## Hope1964

I agree that where there's a will there's a way. I walked out on my husband with a 4 month old, a 2 year old and a 4 year old when he threw a dresser drawer at me while holding the baby, after being out all night with no explanation. He had hit me before too. I had nowhere to go but my brother took me in for a couple weeks till I got on welfare and found low income housing. I would have gone to a shelter if need be. 

There are options - use them and get out. You and your kids deserve SO much better than that


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## southern wife

Cherry said:


> No I don't want them to, this is not normal behavior, I know that. If I had the means, I would be gone. I don't know what to do anymore. I really don't.


First and foremost, STOP having sex with him. No BJs, no anal, no NOTHING!!!! As others have stated, I would never in my life endure this type of behavior from a man. He (or I) would be gone before he even knew what hit him!!!!


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## southern wife

Hope1964 said:


> There are options - use them and get out. You and your kids deserve SO much better than that



:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:


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## rrrbbbttt

Mindful Coach said:


> Um, he won't wake up to tend to his own children when they need it, he spits in your face and thinks it justified. I think you owe your family a huge apology, you were wrong - they weren't. Allow them to support you and your children at this time. It's only going to get worse. He's hit you before and is still excusing horrible behavior. I'm sure he thinks it's your fault he HAD to act like that. Honey, get out while your children are still young enough to see that life can be lived without abuse.


:iagree: He is a coward and not a man nor a husband, your family supported you before they will again, you may think you are eating crow but they are concerned about your safety and your children. Reach out. You need to protect yourself and your children. Any man who would hit a wife and spit in her face would have no problem hitting a child. There is no justification for hitting or spitting.


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## Cherry

Thank you all. I really am in disbelief over this. I know what I need to do now. It's like he doesn't know when to stop. As much as I've put up with over the years for our marriage to stay in tact, everything we've been through and it just seems like he wants to hurt me. Why? What have I done that is so bad??? I know the answer to that, it's NOT me.... I know that, but when it's happening that's what goes through my mind.

@ YinPrincess - You are right, it does take time and energy to work up to getting out of this kind of situation. I've spent the last year and a half trying to salvage my marriage and for what? I don't know now. I have no idea. It hurt beyond words this morning. I feel like I just watched my world as I know it go up in flames. It's painful for the man I love to look me in the face and spit at me and all because I didn't want to continue arguing in front of our children, I wanted to leave and calm down.


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## Laurae1967

Mindful Coach said:


> Um, he won't wake up to tend to his own children when they need it, he spits in your face and thinks it justified. I think you owe your family a huge apology, you were wrong - they weren't. Allow them to support you and your children at this time. It's only going to get worse. He's hit you before and is still excusing horrible behavior. I'm sure he thinks it's your fault he HAD to act like that. Honey, get out while your children are still young enough to see that life can be lived without abuse.


I don't think you should be telling Cherry that she is "wrong" and needs to apologize to her family. You know nothing about that situation. And it's beside the point. Cherry did what she thought was best at the time, thinking her H would change. Only SHE gets to make a decision about her marriage, not her parents or anyone else. 

Cherry, there is a reason you have gravitated to an abusive person. I think I read in one of your posts that your parents were also dysfunctional. When you grow up thinking you are defective or unloveable, you tend to let abusive people into your life. But you CAN break free from this cycle!

I would contact a woman's shelter today and tell them what's been happening. They can help you develop a plan to get out and give you good advice about how to deal with your financial situation. 

You don't need to justify your decisions to ANYONE. Not your parents, friends, or family. Only you get to walk in your shoes. There is no harm in trying to make your marriage work and you gave it a good shot, but some people are just broken. So you move on from here. But please don't beat yourself up over wanting things to work. At least now you can walk away knowing you did your best. Your husband is really messed up and you can't fix him. But you can move on and start a new life. Just do it one step at a time. Hugs to you.


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## Cherry

Laurae1967 said:


> I don't think you should be telling Cherry that she is "wrong" and needs to apologize to her family. You know nothing about that situation. And it's beside the point. Cherry did what she thought was best at the time, thinking her H would change. Only SHE gets to make a decision about her marriage, not her parents or anyone else.
> 
> Cherry, there is a reason you have gravitated to an abusive person. I think I read in one of your posts that your parents were also dysfunctional. When you grow up thinking you are defective or unloveable, you tend to let abusive people into your life. But you CAN break free from this cycle!
> 
> I would contact a woman's shelter today and tell them what's been happening. They can help you develop a plan to get out and give you good advice about how to deal with your financial situation.
> 
> You don't need to justify your decisions to ANYONE. Not your parents, friends, or family. Only you get to walk in your shoes. There is no harm in trying to make your marriage work and you gave it a good shot, but some people are just broken. So you move on from here. But please don't beat yourself up over wanting things to work. At least now you can walk away knowing you did your best. Your husband is really messed up and you can't fix him. But you can move on and start a new life. Just do it one step at a time. Hugs to you.


Thank you. I don't want to crawl back to my family, it's not ONLY my marriage or my reconciliation that caused tensions between us, it's many more issues than just that, so having them out of my life is beneficial in many areas of my life. My family (my mom in particular) is simply too toxic for me right now. 

I don't think my H is an awful person, I think he is broken, like you said. It's so hard when you love someone and 90% of the time things are really good... It's that 10% that is really bad and can be extremely damaging, if not fatal, to me and my children if I allow it to continue. I know this. i just need to work up the courage to do something about it, sooner than later obviously.


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## YinPrincess

Let me tell you something. I dealt with being abused for over FIVE YEARS with my ex, and it was daily towards the end. At the last incident, I did the hardest thing I ever had to do... I picked up a phone, dialed 911 and let them tape the abuse over the phone. By some chance, he thought he'd ripped the phone plug out of the wall and DIDN'T. He was choking me when the police came, and I remember whispering to him "I can't breathe". When he looked me dead in the eye and said "Good" I knew that he was going to kill me. The police came, arrested him and I INSTANTLY became homeless. His adopted father had given us the house we lived in, and kicked me out as soon as he learned I called the cops on his son. I had three days to pack what I could into my two cars, with my three dogs and I lived in a Walmart parking lot. Walmart even towed one of my cars after 7 days while I was out looking for a job. They eventually got my car back for me, after telling them my situation. I found a home for my three dogs, who I had for YEARS, and the couple who took them changed my life forever. They got me a job after I searched for months, allowed me visitation with my "kids", (that really kept my spirit alive during this time, because wouldn't you know it - after I found it was so difficult on my own, I started REGRETING having called the police on my ex)!!! The place they got me hired at would be the place I would meet my now-husband. I worked and continued to be homeless, living in my car and showering at my now-husband's place, while I saved money for my own dwelling. After a YEAR of this I finally got my own home, and moved in just days before Christmas. The couple who took my dogs GAVE THEM BACK to me, and it was the best gift I think I've EVER received in my whole life!!! I still get choked up remembering that day. They are now dear friends, they are more than friends, they are family to me, and God only knows where I'd be without them. You CAN do this. You HAVE to. Where there is a will, there's a way. In the end, it was worth it. I risked everything, lost everything and had to start from scratch, literally. When I look at how far I've come now, it's just amazing to me. The hardest part about leaving my ex... He was my best friend. REALLY. We shared the kind of closeness and intimacy that people only dream of... He just couldn't stop using drugs and abusing me. We had so many good times and adventures together... So many heartfelt talks, so many dreams. In the end, it was just talk. Get out, and do it for your kids. My DOGS were traumatized by my ex. They STILL cower when someone raises their voice. Imagine how your kids are affected, if my dogs are still like this, years later. Wishing you the best, my friend. Make it happen.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## that_girl

chillymorn said:


> This is a time where you need to be very mad and comunicate that either he apoligise or get out. that type of behavior is totaly unacceptable and has NO place in a marriage.
> 
> He nees to show he is sorry for acting like a 10yr old.
> 
> I would even sugest he take some anger management classes.No normal person spits in there loved ones face either he is commited to change or the next time he might hit you or worse whats he going to be like when your baby is older and needs disaplined. Very poor behavior totaly unacceptable.
> 
> PUT YOUR FOOT DOWN HARD ON THIS.


This.

How utterly disrespectful. I'm so sorry.


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## Cherry

YinPrincess said:


> Let me tell you something. I dealt with being abused for over FIVE YEARS with my ex, and it was daily towards the end. At the last incident, I did the hardest thing I ever had to do... I picked up a phone, dialed 911 and let them tape the abuse over the phone. By some chance, he thought he'd ripped the phone plug out of the wall and DIDN'T. He was choking me when the police came, and I remember whispering to him "I can't breathe". When he looked me dead in the eye and said "Good" I knew that he was going to kill me. The police came, arrested him and I INSTANTLY became homeless. His adopted father had given us the house we lived in, and kicked me out as soon as he learned I called the cops on his son. I had three days to pack what I could into my two cars, with my three dogs and I lived in a Walmart parking lot. Walmart even towed one of my cars after 7 days while I was out looking for a job. They eventually got my car back for me, after telling them my situation. I found a home for my three dogs, who I had for YEARS, and the couple who took them changed my life forever. They got me a job after I searched for months, allowed me visitation with my "kids", (that really kept my spirit alive during this time, because wouldn't you know it - after I found it was so difficult on my own, I started REGRETING having called the police on my ex)!!! The place they got me hired at would be the place I would meet my now-husband. I worked and continued to be homeless, living in my car and showering at my now-husband's place, while I saved money for my own dwelling. After a YEAR of this I finally got my own home, and moved in just days before Christmas. The couple who took my dogs GAVE THEM BACK to me, and it was the best gift I think I've EVER received in my whole life!!! I still get choked up remembering that day. They are now dear friends, they are more than friends, they are family to me, and God only knows where I'd be without them. You CAN do this. You HAVE to. Where there is a will, there's a way. In the end, it was worth it. I risked everything, lost everything and had to start from scratch, literally. When I look at how far I've come now, it's just amazing to me. The hardest part about leaving my ex... He was my best friend. REALLY. We shared the kind of closeness and intimacy that people only dream of... He just couldn't stop using drugs and abusing me. We had so many good times and adventures together... So many heartfelt talks, so many dreams. In the end, it was just talk. Get out, and do it for your kids. My DOGS were traumatized by my ex. They STILL cower when someone raises their voice. Imagine how your kids are affected, if my dogs are still like this, years later. Wishing you the best, my friend. Make it happen.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank you for sharing your story. Very unfortunate that you had to endure that, but at the same time very inspiring that you've come so far. The part about your ex being your best friend, that is what is so hard about this situation too. I feel like he and I share a closeness like no other... But at the same time I feel like he could destroy me and feel no remorse whatsoever. I have a lot to think about right now.


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## SUZIWORD

Cherry, after reading your posts and your replies, my only advice and its not advice....it just sorta sound like it to me....is that your in disbelief over what has transpired. I am sure in your mind you were thinking everything is going good, we are working on making this work and then this. Its okay to be in disbelief and its okay to grieve for the reconciliation you thought was taking place. Don't beat yourself up over what you did or didn't do, what caused it, etc. If you don't want to tell your family that is okay too, its your decision. The only thing is....please do not put yourself or your children in harm's way, while making your decision. 

I feel your pain and I am sorry for what you have been through. Please take care of yourself!


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## Cherry

SUZIWORD said:


> Cherry, after reading your posts and your replies, my only advice and its not advice....it just sorta sound like it to me....is that your in disbelief over what has transpired. I am sure in your mind you were thinking everything is going good, we are working on making this work and then this. Its okay to be in disbelief and its okay to grieve for the reconciliation you thought was taking place. Don't beat yourself up over what you did or didn't do, what caused it, etc. If you don't want to tell your family that is okay too, its your decision. The only thing is....please do not put yourself or your children in harm's way, while making your decision.
> 
> I feel your pain and I am sorry for what you have been through. Please take care of yourself!


That is it. I had a chance to talk to him a couple of hours ago and he told me that he felt like hitting me this morning, but due to our past and my promise to call the cops on him and have him arrested and removed from the home, that option was not there for him so he said he did the second thing that came to his mind as he was looking at me, and that was to spit at me. I told him he needs to call someone, a counselor, anyone so that we can determine our next steps because our children WILL not grow up in this environment. He is working tonight so at least I will have some time to gather my thoughts for what hopefully will be a straight to the point conversation when he gets home. I have a lot to think about, but I know my priority is my safety and my children's safety above all else.


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## A Bit Much

FYI- spitting on a person is considered battery. He could have gotten arrested for doing that had you called the police. He needs to know he can't get away with that either... he should have gone ahead and hit you. Be done with it once and for all.


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## Cherry

It's not too late to call the cops, I did not know that it was considered battery. Another option for me to consider, thank you.


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## Cherry

He's coming home in a hour. We both have calmed down. But you all have got me thinking hard. The word broken is something I can't stop thinking about. Is he truly too far gone, is he too broken? I guess only I can determine how much I can take. We used to fight constantly... we have both worked on toning that down successfully... but now it seems when we do fight, its over stupid **** and its brutal. I'm watching my children grow up, I want them to be happy, healthy and safe in their little worlds. My H is ADHD, he grew up in a very abusive family, and honesty I think he is bipolar on some level. He has refused to go see a doctor for any kind of mood disorder, he took ritalin as a child and hated the side effects. only he can choose who he wants to be in life. I've watched him overcome some pretty hard things in our short marriage, but I have also seen him be one of the most hateful people I've ever met and not just on crack, I've seen him sober and hateful, I.e. this morning. Where does it come from?? And why me? (I know the answer to that one, because I stay). He is the epitome of my perfect man, except for his anger problems. If I could find something else wrong with him, I might not have such a struggle with my choices. He became the perfect husband shortly after he hit me for the last time 5 months ago now. Is that long enough to trust him, does him spitting in my face just prove he still has no respect for me? I don't know, I'm just thinking outloud. I'm so confused.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## babydollnewly

I would have freaked the f**k out! That is the ultimate in disrespect 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hurtnohio

Cherry said:


> I haven't answered his calls for the past 30 mins... He's threatening to come up to my job.
> 
> chillymorn - He's hit me before, so I think in his mind this isn't "abuse".... I know it is.
> 
> .


Two things stand out here: (1) He has hit you before. BIG RED FLAG!!!!!!

(2) He's threatening to come to your job (and probably make a scene). 

One is a form of physical abuse. The other is a form of emotional abuse. Creating havoc in front of your co-workers is a way for him to control you even in your own workspace.

Based on what I've heard here, this guy is a real loser and doesn't deserve another chance.


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## that_girl

If someone spit in my face, especially my lover, that would be it.

That fact that he has hit you before is just disgusting and you deserve so much better.

I was thinking about you today....about this. No one deserves to be spit on. So vile. So disrespectful. I'm sorry he did that to you. Just know that abusers usually hate themselves so they take it out on others. It's not you.


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## that_girl

If this was your child in your situation...what would you tell her?

What would you tell a friend? 

Take that advice.


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## hurtnohio

Cherry said:


> That is it. I had a chance to talk to him a couple of hours ago and he told me that he felt like hitting me this morning, but due to our past and my promise to call the cops on him and have him arrested and removed from the home, that option was not there for him so he said he did the second thing that came to his mind as he was looking at me, and that was to spit at me.


This is the most damning thing I've heard in a while. He's actually claiming that he did the right thing by spitting at you instead of hitting you? REALLY? 

That shows such an utter lack of respect that I don't even have the words to describe it. His anger issues - which are what led to the abuse in the first place - have not been dealt with, they've just taken on a new form. I'm afraid if you don't get away from him soon, he won't be able to hold back next time. 

I'm also worried that he is calculating this much in the midst of his anger. He's actually reasoning on the best ways to hurt you emotionally without getting caught. That shows a level of cold-heartedness that chills me. 

A scenario that I'm envisioning goes like this: Next time, he gets so angry that he can't hold back. He decides to hit. But because he knows he'll lose you and get arrested for hitting you, he decides to just go all the way. That's how murder-suicides happen.

I'm not a trained professional in this area, but I saw it happen with an uncle once. Everyone in the family kept telling her to leave him. She said she finally had him "under control."

He ended up gunning her down in their living room. Walked up to her as she lay wounded and put another bullet through her eye. Unfortunately, he never got around to the suicide part so the good people of Ohio are paying for his room and board for the rest of his life.

I'm really worried about this one for you. Protect yourself! Please don't sweep this under the rug!


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## hurtnohio

Any updates Cherry? Last you posted, angry husband was coming home in an hour after spending the day spitting on you and then harassing you. I hope I'm wrong, but I have a bad feeling about this. Update us as soon as possible. Don't know about the others, but I'm a little worried!


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## Prodigal

Cherry said:


> He is the epitome of my perfect man, except for his anger problems. If I could find something else wrong with him, I might not have such a struggle with my choices. He became the perfect husband shortly after he hit me for the last time 5 months ago now. Is that long enough to trust him, does him spitting in my face just prove he still has no respect for me?


So, what you are saying is your husband is the perfect guy except for the fact that he has a history of hitting you, and instead of hitting you yesterday, he opted to spit on you. What other reprehensible attributes does he need to have in order not to be considered "perfect, if only he wasn't ..."?

No, five months is not long enough to trust him, given that he admitted he wanted to hit you yesterday, but opted to spit instead. He has no respect for himself, for you, or his children.


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## Therealbrighteyes

As somebody else pointed out, it is battary. If he did this to another person, he could be arrested on the spot. You are no different just because you are his spouse. 
You need to get out and get out now. These people never change, trust me, I lived with one for a year. They escalate and further abuse and worse, you don't notice it has escalated because at that point you are so used to it/broken down that you think it's normal.
Call Legal Aid. They have a location in every major city. They are lawyers and paralegals who work pro bono, they have counseling services for both yourself and your children and they have the resources to get you out of this situation both with housing and with a restraining order if needed/legal protections for both yourself and your children. 
Call 411 and get in touch with Legal Aid now!


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## SadieBrown

Cherry said:


> No I don't want them to, this is not normal behavior, I know that. If I had the means, I would be gone. I don't know what to do anymore. I really don't.



You have a job. He would be required to pay child support. Why do you say you don't have the means? It might be hard but plenty of women make it work in order to get out of abusive relationships. And if he has hit you and spit in your face you ARE in an abusive relationship make no mistake about it.


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## that_girl

I wish she'd update. Cheerrrryyyy, where are you!


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## SadieBrown

Cherry said:


> No, I just told my family to either except my reconciliation or get out of my life... There is no way I'm crawling back now...Personally I would rather deal with an 'I told you so" than I would a man who would spit in my face. I have called a shelter before when he hit me. I guess it's time for me to stop thinking he will change.Probably, to change he has to want to change. And he has to do it for himself and by himself. This was probably one of the biggest shockers since we've been back together. I chalked up his physical abuse to Jack Daniels, so I justified that on some level. There is never justification for abuse, I don't care how much JD he had. I can't justify this, even if I think long and hard about what transpired this morning. It's mind-blowing. I am so at a loss right now  I didn't answer my phone this morning, so he comes up to my job to try and corner me into talking to him? This bullying behavior is so beyond anything I've ever seen. This isn't me, this can't be my life. I don't get it. I really don't.





Cherry said:


> Because I asked if he would get up and tend to one of children who had woke up... it became a "I don't wake up to tend to babies all hours of the night, etc" back and forth thing. Aren't they his kids also? Who does he think he is than he can't get up with his own kid?? I decided to leave 30 min before I typically do because of the arguing.smart move He followed me to the car, I put my window down and he spit in my face. That was that. Now he's telling me he was justified in doing that because I walked away from the argument. There is no justification for that. It is typical abuser behavior to not take responsibility for their actions. He is trying to say it is your fault for walking away from an argument? What a load of BS If the argument is escalating walking away is the best thing to do. If you had stayed in the house he could have done worse
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





Cherry said:


> That is it. I had a chance to talk to him a couple of hours ago and he told me that he felt like hitting me this morning, but due to our past and my promise to call the cops on him and have him arrested and removed from the home, that option was not there for him so he said he did the second thing that came to his mind as he was looking at me, and that was to spit at me. So the only reason he didn't hit you was to save his own butt from gettin arrested?? Nice. . .real nice.I told him he needs to call someone, a counselor, anyone so that we can determine our next steps because our children WILL not grow up in this environment. He is working tonight so at least I will have some time to gather my thoughts for what hopefully will be a straight to the point conversation when he gets home. I think you need to gather your things and get the hell out of there I have a lot to think about, but I know my priority is my safety and my children's safety above all else.





Cherry said:


> He's coming home in a hour. We both have calmed down. But you all have got me thinking hard. The word broken is something I can't stop thinking about. Is he truly too far gone, is he too broken? Does it really matter? There is no excuse for his behavior and no excuse to keeping the kids in this environment. You can wonder about the 'whys' after you have got yourself and your kids to safety I guess only I can determine how much I can take. Yes, and that is the only think you can control. You can't control him. It doesn't matter why he acts this way. It matters that he does. You can't change him and you can't control him. You need to get our of this situation We used to fight constantly... we have both worked on toning that down successfully... but now it seems when we do fight, its over stupid **** and its brutal. I'm watching my children grow up, I want them to be happy, healthy and safe in their little worlds. My H is ADHD, he grew up in a very abusive family, and honesty I think he is bipolar on some level. He has refused to go see a doctor for any kind of mood disorder, he took ritalin as a child and hated the side effects. only he can choose who he wants to be in life. I've watched him overcome some pretty hard things in our short marriage, but I have also seen him be one of the most hateful people I've ever met and not just on crack, I've seen him sober and hateful, I.e. this morning. Where does it come from?? And why me? (I know the answer to that one, because I stay). He is the epitome of my perfect man, except for his anger problems. I'm sorry, but men who hit women and spit in their face should not be considered the epitome of anyone's perfect man. There are plenty of good guys out there but he not one of them. Don't kid yourself. If I could find something else wrong with him, I might not have such a struggle with my choices. He has hit you, spit on you and refuses to help in the care of his own child. How much wrong with him do you need? He became the perfect husband shortly after he hit me for the last time 5 months ago now. Is that long enough to trust him, does him spitting in my face just prove he still has no respect for me? Yes!! spiting on someone is one of the most insulting things you can do. I wouldn't even spit on my dog. I don't know, I'm just thinking outloud. I'm so confused.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SadieBrown

that_girl said:


> I wish she'd update. Cheerrrryyyy, where are you!





:iagree::iagree:


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## Therealbrighteyes

SadieBrown said:


> You have a job. He would be required to pay child support. Why do you say you don't have the means? It might be hard but plenty of women make it work in order to get out of abusive relationships. And if he has hit you and spit in your face you ARE in an abusive relationship make no mistake about it.


I left with my purse and the clothes on my back. We didn't have children, which makes it more difficult but it can be done. As you said, many many women have done it and their lives are so much better. 
Not a day goes by 20 years later that I don't regret not pressing charges. He choked me to the point I nearly died and despite what the police advised me, I declined to do anything about it. He is a criminal defense attorney now who specializes in defending men who abuse their partners. He beat the hell out of his own wife when she was pregnant with IVF triplets. She didn't press charges either and last I heard is still with him. 
These monsters NEVER change and no amount of rationalizing you can do Cherry will change them. You need to get out immediately AND press charges. Again, call Legal Aid. They will fight for you and your children pro bono and are on your side. You are NOT alone in this.


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## CallaLily

that_girl said:


> I wish she'd update. Cheerrrryyyy, where are you!


I was just thinking the same thing earlier.


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## hurtnohio

Hope she's OK.


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## Prodigal

If cherry went to a women's shelter, they will protect her whereabouts and identity. Hopefully, she is in such a safe haven. If she is, there are people there who can help her get a restraining order. I hope and pray she made the choice to go to a safe place.


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## Lydia

Kind of worried about her.... I hope she's safe.


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## Cherry

hurtnohio said:


> Any updates Cherry? Last you posted, angry husband was coming home in an hour after spending the day spitting on you and then harassing you. I hope I'm wrong, but I have a bad feeling about this. Update us as soon as possible. Don't know about the others, but I'm a little worried!


Hi. I've been battling with my mother this weekend (see grandparents returning children on time thread - shes threatening other stuff now).. Anyway, I briefly read your post, its frightening. And it got me thinking more. Things are calm this weekend with my H (we are having to band together against my mother right now). I'll explain more tomorrow when I've had a chance to catch up on the other posts as well. But I am safe this weekend. Thank you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## trey69

I wonder if you just need to start new without your husband or your mother until they can get their lives/issues straightened out. They both seem like toxic people.


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## hurtnohio

Just glad you're OK. But don't brush the spitting thing under the rug. There are some real danger signs there in my opinion.


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## Laurae1967

Cherry, your mother sounds like she has Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Her controlling, manipulative, and cruel treatment of you (and using your kids as a weapon against you) are just horrible, but very typical of someone with NPD.

I would encourage you to read up on NPD. The one thing you must realize is that people like that cannot be trusted. Some adult children cut off all contact with their NPD parents (and don't allow their kids to see the NPD grandparent) and it is more than justified.

Please do not turn to your mother for anything. She will use it as an excuse to hurt and control you. I don't think your husband is any help to you either, unfortunately.

Whatever you do, do NOT tell your mother what is going on. But DO get help for you and your children. If you stay in an abusive situation, your could be considered unfit as a mother. You do NOT want this to happen. Do not give your mother any reason to try to come between you and your children. No "man" is worth that.


Also: there is a fantastic user group on Yahoo called "Adult Children of Narcissists" and it is a members only support group for adults who had narcissistic parents. You have to have a Yahoo email to join, but that's easy enough. You will find many people who have stories of parents just like yours. I really encourage you to check it out. You can learn a lot from people who have walked in your shoes and have learned the best ways to cope with interfering, toxic parents.

Stay strong!!!


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## desert-rose

I'm so sorry that happened to you. 

This is definitely abusive behavior. If he's hit you before, there's a strong chance that things could go worse and that you could be in danger. 

You need to be sure you and your kids are safe. Please, leave him. Do it discreetly. Don't give him any warning. Don't tell him where you are. If you have to go to a shelter, do so.

Please be careful.


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## Freak On a Leash

Cherry said:


> Things are calm this weekend with my H (we are having to band together against my mother right now). I'll explain more tomorrow when I've had a chance to catch up on the other posts as well. But I am safe this weekend. Thank you.


End of Chapter 1. She's not leaving him. It's just not bad enough..yet. 

But it will be...eventually. Just not now.


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## hunter_aussie

Freak On a Leash said:


> End of Chapter 1. She's not leaving him. It's just not bad enough..yet.
> 
> But it will be...eventually. Just not now.


She is just scared. 
My best friend went through this for years, the only reason she left was when he was caught dangerous driving with the toddlers in the car. Now that he's gone he's behaving the same but away from her - stalking, threatening etc. She has a restraining order and is doing supervised visits and it's much more stable for the children.
Now that he's gone, she realises how much calmer it is for her and the kids, and how she thought she loved him and depended on him but she doesn't.
I have to agree that it sounds like you're not going to leave yet. Even though you know you should. It's incredibly hard, and if the spitting didn't make you have enough you need to remember that if you stay with him you've told him you've tolerated it - even though you didn't like it - and this can only be a green flag for him. It won't get better. Don't delude yourself. Nothing wrong with being scared, own it but when you have kids it can't be about you anymore. You're a mother and they have to come first. Please, just try and find something within yourself that can do this.


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## that_girl

Freak On a Leash said:


> End of Chapter 1. She's not leaving him. It's just not bad enough..yet.
> 
> But it will be...eventually. Just not now.


Well, when it gets too bad, she won't be able to leave  unless in an ambulance or ...worse.

I am not being flippant. I honestly worry. This kind of shet escalates so quickly.


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## hunter_aussie

that_girl said:


> Well, when it gets too bad, she won't be able to leave  unless in an ambulance or ...worse.
> 
> I am not being flippant. I honestly worry. This kind of shet escalates so quickly.


I agree. 

Maybe he is capable of changing, but I think by staying he is being enabled in his behaviour and the message is it's accepted and tolerated. He needs to be removed from his family to work on himself. It's best and safer for everyone.


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## golfergirl

Cherry,
Please at least make a safety plan with a packed bag so you and kids can make quick exit if needed. Copies of birth certificates, stash of cash, a few changes of clothes and keep at work or if you can hide it in your car or keep with trusted friend. Have escape plan in place so you can leave in moment's notice or not come home if he's being abusive. Very sorry for the crap he's putting you through.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sanity

In most states its considered assault and battery to spit on someone. 

At the very least you need to seperate from this man, get a restrainer order and contact a lawyer ASAP. Protect your interests especially if kids are involved. 

This man is a bully and will destroy you. Please seek help and leave this man.


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## SadieBrown

Cherry said:


> Hi. I've been battling with my mother this weekend (see grandparents returning children on time thread - shes threatening other stuff now).. Anyway, I briefly read your post, its frightening. And it got me thinking more. Things are calm this weekend with my H (we are having to band together against my mother right now). I'll explain more tomorrow when I've had a chance to catch up on the other posts as well. But I am safe this weekend. Thank you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That statement really bothers me. Your mother may be a problem. But that you and your husband are banning together bothers me. I'm sure your husband is very-very happy to have the focus on your mother being the bad guy right now.  It takes your mind off his bad behavior.  Don't fall for it or let him off the hook for what he did. 

I agree with a previous poster that you need to make a safety plan.


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## Cherry

hunter_aussie said:


> She is just scared.


What hunter said  The issue with my mother does not help matters. And thank you Laurae for the recommendation. I will read up on that today as a matter of fact. 

I have not swept what my H has done under the rug. I am stepping back and seriously considering my next steps. With things being calm right now, I hope and feel like I have a little more time. I started reading about abusive people years ago, the first time he hit me, and I got more info from his family about what kind of person he has been over the years. Being my dream man, I was hell bent on saving my marriage. Now I'm not so sure this is right thing to do. I'm not disputing an ounce of what anyone here has said, and I am not dismissing any of it as "well, that's what happened to them"... Nothing even remotely close to that. I am reading it, I am hearing it, and I am considering all of my next moves very carefully. 

He knows the law, from the inside, and will use it to his advantage. He has before during our divorce proceeding. 

I wrote before that he was the epitome of my perfect man. I've thought a lot about that this weekend. And I'm not so sure that statement is correct anymore. 

I will let everyone know of any new developments. Thanks to everyone for your concern. I know this is nothing to take lightly.


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## SadieBrown

trey69 said:


> I wonder if you just need to start new without your husband or your mother until they can get their lives/issues straightened out. They both seem like toxic people.



:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::


You don't have to choose one over the other. You don't have to 'ban together' with one over the other. 

I have read a few more of your posts. You have already raised one child, you are a capable woman. You can do this. It is sad that your can't depend on either your husband or your mother. But there are other ways to find support. Do you have other relatives or friends you can turn to? What about women's groups in your area?


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## LimboGirl

SadieBrown said:


> That statement really bothers me. Your mother may be a problem. But that you and your husband are banning together bothers me. I'm sure your husband is very-very happy to have the focus on your mother being the bad guy right now.  It takes your mind off his bad behavior.  Don't fall for it or let him off the hook for what he did.
> 
> I agree with a previous poster that you need to make a safety plan.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

I think the whole banning together against mom is a manipulation tactic. I would think about whether this has happened in the past. I also think you may be risking your life here or even worse your children's lives.


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## martinboycot

wow....
He sure has no respect for you at all, very scary


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## hunter_aussie

I know you don't need to be told anymore what to do.
And I also really do understand how confusing and scary it must be. Because you still have hope, hope that things will somehow change. You wouldn't be the first one.
Getting him to go somewhere for awhile would be great, maybe a friends house. If you're not ready to leave yet, it will at least give you a break and some time to think on your own.
When you are abused, sometimes you look for ways to justify their behaviour, but you need to remember - he's done what he's done. It doesn't matter if you were the nastiest woman on the face of the earth. His reactions are dangerous as he snaps and rages. He hasn't learnt to control himself. Just think of it as he's too much of a risk to have around you and the kids.
It's easy for people on the outside looking in to tell you what to do - they're not emotionally involved. And when people say men can not change - this is absolutely UNTRUE. With the right help and desire, he absolutely can change.
I just think by staying with him, you're actually making it worse because he's not holding himself accountable. Not really.
Keep us updated if you want to and hope you stay strong for yourself


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## Prodigal

Cherry said:


> He knows the law, from the inside, and will use it to his advantage. He has before during our divorce proceeding.


So it appears you have proceeded with a divorce action in the past, but it was stopped because ???? The way you get the law to act on YOUR behalf is simply dial 911. The police come in response to a domestic disturbance, and it's part of their records. I assume there are also records pertaining to your husband getting counseling or being in an anger management course.

You are being physically abused, but you are also being brainwashed by what sounds like a classic narcissist. I hope you someday have the courage to walk away from this man. He might know the law, but there is always another attorney out there who is a little bit smarter ... one who would act on your behalf.

In the meantime, you will stay until the pain of staying outweighs the pain of leaving.


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## VeryHurt

Cherry said:


> Sooooo after an incredible love making session last night, this morning I asked him if he'd get up with crying child at 5:20 this morning. I normally am the one up but alas I was tired. We got into a screaming argument, I got ready for work and proceeded to leave. He comes to the car window and literally spit in my face. What would you do????
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Without hesitation........I'd tell him to get out and run to a divorce attorney. Absolutely no respect. Disgusting. 
He's pathetic. Made me sick to read your story. Good Luck.


----------



## Freak On a Leash

hunter_aussie said:


> She is just scared.


I know. I was too. In the end it was a number of circumstances that caused my H and I to physically separate and I'm glad I did but like Cherry, I had no family to go back to. I was estranged (and still am) from my immediate family as well. I was on my own. 

My H used to say that I would wind up in the gutter, on welfare and alone and penniless. Part of me believed it but that's not how it worked out. 

But until you believe that you can be on your own and survive then it doesn't matter what other people tell you. Either things get so bad that you are convinced to leave or put into a position where you have no choice but to leave.


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## COGypsy

What scares me most about the whole incident is how calculating he was about it all. As "mad" as he may have been during the argument, he was still calm enough to _choose_ _not_ to hit you but to spit on you instead, because there was no consequence outlined for that. He said that himself, which pretty much eliminates the whole "losing my temper/ heat of the moment" defense. That's a HUGE red flag right there.

Whatever sympathy you may feel for his past, or camaraderie you may feel standing up against your mother with him--this is a man who can make deliberate decisions in the middle of an argument about the most effective way to assault and degrade you without implicating himself. If nothing else, I really hope you'll take golfergirl's advice and get your safety plan together ASAP.


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## christinadanderson

I would ask my husband in a calm voice why he did what he did. You were fighting about something and that was probably the cause of it. I would let him know that you didn't appreciate what he did and go along with saying, did you do anything that upset him. He did it for a reason. Find out what that reason was and keep your marriage on track.


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## hunter_aussie

christinadanderson said:


> I would ask my husband in a calm voice why he did what he did. You were fighting about something and that was probably the cause of it. I would let him know that you didn't appreciate what he did and go along with saying, did you do anything that upset him. He did it for a reason. Find out what that reason was and keep your marriage on track.


Are you serious? It doesn't matter what the reason was. She has posted that not only has he spit on her, he has anger issues and has hit her before. She acknowledges he has issues.
You think she should "keep her marriage on track" and just accept it and tolerate it?
Don't agree with this at all 
I have upset my husband many times but he has never degraded me in this way. Cherry is worth more than this.


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## golfergirl

christinadanderson said:


> I would ask my husband in a calm voice why he did what he did. You were fighting about something and that was probably the cause of it. I would let him know that you didn't appreciate what he did and go along with saying, did you do anything that upset him. He did it for a reason. Find out what that reason was and keep your marriage on track.


This is a scary answer. There is no reason to spit on someone along with other things he's done.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## COGypsy

christinadanderson said:


> I would ask my husband in a calm voice why he did what he did. You were fighting about something and that was probably the cause of it. I would let him know that you didn't appreciate what he did and go along with saying, did you do anything that upset him. He did it for a reason. Find out what that reason was and keep your marriage on track.


Perhaps while she's at it, she could calmly apologize for letting her face get in the way of his spit. The reason he spit on her was because he knew the cops would haul him off to jail if he hit her the way he really wanted to. Doesn't leave a lot of options for "on track".
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SadieBrown

COGypsy said:


> What scares me most about the whole incident is how calculating he was about it all. As "mad" as he may have been during the argument, he was still calm enough to _choose_ _not_ to hit you but to spit on you instead, because there was no consequence outlined for that. He said that himself, which pretty much eliminates the whole "losing my temper/ heat of the moment" defense. That's a HUGE red flag right there.
> 
> Whatever sympathy you may feel for his past, or camaraderie you may feel standing up against your mother with him--this is a man who can make deliberate decisions in the middle of an argument about the most effective way to assault and degrade you without implicating himself. If nothing else, I really hope you'll take golfergirl's advice and get your safety plan together ASAP.


:iagree::iagree:

He may have been angry, but he still had enough control to not do something that was going cause consequences for himself.


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## SadieBrown

christinadanderson said:


> I would ask my husband in a calm voice why he did what he did. You were fighting about something and that was probably the cause of it. I would let him know that you didn't appreciate what he did and go along with saying, did you do anything that upset him. He did it for a reason. Find out what that reason was and keep your marriage on track.



You really need to read and study about abuse before giving someone advice like this. I'm sorry but telling a woman who has been abused to 'keep the marriage on track' is very bad advice.

As a former victim of verbal/emotional abuse I resent the implication that abuse is somehow the victims fault for upsetting the other person. Abusers don't need an excuse to abuse. A reasonable person may become angry at the spouse on occasion but they don't hit them or spit on them. That is crossing the line and those actions are the responsibility of the person committing them - not the victim. 

I don't care how angry you are, there is no reason to spit on someone or hit someone. And if you had read her posts you would know he was angry because she had asked him to help with their child. Really? You think it is excusable for a man to get so angry over being asked to help with his own child that he spits on his wife?


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## CallaLily

I must say Cherry, that I'm quite disappointed in your decision to stay where you are. However, its not my decision to bare. I actually thought that would be the straw that broke the camels back for you. 

Him banding together with you because of your mother is kind of odd, however, I guess in his mind he may see it as it gets you off his back about his bad behavior if you focus on your mothers bad behavior. So I guess he gets a get out jail free card once again. Or least thats how I see it when people continue to stay with someone who is abusing them. That is why for now, his behavior seems to be in check, but I think things will resurface and actually may become worse. What would really be awful is if him and your mother band together against you.


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## LimboGirl

christinadanderson said:


> I would ask my husband in a calm voice why he did what he did. You were fighting about something and that was probably the cause of it. I would let him know that you didn't appreciate what he did and go along with saying, did you do anything that upset him. He did it for a reason. Find out what that reason was and keep your marriage on track.


You're comment makes me wonder if you are abused and can't recognize it.


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## turner_tornado

Increadibly disrespectful on his part. Knee him next time.


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## Cherry

Wondering if I will survive on my own is luckily not an issue I face in this situation. I carry all the health insurance for all 3 of my kids, I make more money and I’m also still fairly young (38). The house is financed in my name only, one of the new cars is also. Falling on my face is not my primary concern. It'll be tough financially, don't get me wrong, but I know it can be done. I might lose some things I'm accustom to, but overall things would be pretty in tact at the end of the day. 

I will say I am SERIOUSLY considering how to make this stop. I know how, leave. I do not want to do that for one major reason, so please hear me out. I know for a fact that he will have some form of custody of my children. At first, it may be supervised, but he will complete the required tasks mandated by the courts and he will eventually get unsupervised visits with my children. And he will be angry with me for this. He won’t see it as his fault. He will find a way to get back at me. This terrifies me. I have asked him numerous times to call someone, anyone, talk to someone about his anger. He says he will, but he doesn’t. He also says he’ll go if I go too to discuss my problems (in other words, he still tries to say I wouldn’t have done this IF you hadn’t have done that). I want to be around my kids 24/7 when he is there. That for me is the most terrifying part of this. They are still very helpless (3 years old). I’ve also met some of the people he befriended when we were separated. Not good and those are the people my kids will be with when they are with him. I raised my concern during our divorce to my attorney. She told me there’s nothing I can do about the kind of people he has my kids around. 

I noticed this weekend was the first weekend I had problems looking at him and feeling something, anything. I can’t help but to wonder if my words are coming true. I told him the last time he actually hit me that one day I will wake up and no longer love him like I did. That instead of me seeing the man I trust and care for with all my heart, I will see a man who wants to hurt me. I told him that I will no longer care what happens to our marriage in my heart, that I will no longer want to make him happy because it won’t matter how happy I make him, he will always have anger problems, he will always get aggravated to the extreme, and it’s quite frankly unattractive and overshadows any good qualities he may have. 

My attraction for him is dying. Maybe it’s my minds way of helping me get out of this whole thing. 

The situation with my mother is complicated and it has to do with my 17 year old more than anything right now. She threatened to take us to court for a bunch of expenses related to my oldest, expenses which were never agreed to, and this was on the heels of her threatening to take our twins from us (i.e. calling CPS). This week things are calmer with her. WE (my H and I) as a unit had to put a stop to all the threats against our family because regardless of what is going on in our marriage, we do not need to have CPS knocking on our door every week because grandma feels jaded in her visits with our children, and we do not need to be served with a lawsuit for expenses related to a 17 year old that are ridiculous (i.e. an iPhone upgrade). It’s not like we don’t have our own problems to deal with!

I could be wrong with how I’m looking at everything, but in the past 3 years I’ve come inches from death with the birth of my twins and a stroke 8 months later. Surely God would not bring me this far in my recovery to have some idiot (my H) just take my life from me. However, I also know God works in mysterious ways and he could very well be sitting there telling me that he’s given me enough warnings 


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## that_girl

Stop making excuses, hun. You are in an abusive relationship.  It's time to stop it..


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## southern wife

I've read through most of this, and responded several pages back, but I can't recall if you've ever called the cops on him before? Does he have a criminal record?


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## FirstYearDown

christinadanderson said:


> I would ask my husband in a calm voice why he did what he did. You were fighting about something and that was probably the cause of it. I would let him know that you didn't appreciate what he did and go along with saying, did you do anything that upset him. He did it for a reason. Find out what that reason was and keep your marriage on track.


Spitting or hitting someone is never okay, unless it is self defence. 

My ex used to love to come thisclose to my face and scream. When I tried to walk away, this fool would run after me and keep bellowing in my face. I tried to tell him that this behavior frightened me...he refused to stop. One day, I lost my temper and beat up this jerk.

He never jumped in my face again. :smthumbup: The fool tried to threaten me with legal action and I calmly told him that I would just tell the police what he did to me. Guess what? No charges were laid, because my ex knew that the police consider screaming in someone's face assault. Saliva used to land on my face when my ex did this.

The OP did nothing to deserve or "provoke" being spat on. It is not as if she hit her husband first!


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## CallaLily

If you're afraid of him "getting back" at you etc, you need to tell the courts/lawyer what you told us here. 

I would also suggest that while you're trying to figure out what you feel you need to do, find a local abuse support group in your area and check them out.


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## Cherry

southern wife said:


> I've read through most of this, and responded several pages back, but I can't recall if you've ever called the cops on him before? Does he have a criminal record?


Yes, he has a very lengthy criminal record. However, it doesn't matter, as his crimes happened before we married and I was aware of them, so the courts don't care. I have called the cops on him numerous times, one time I called I was arrested for DV because I scratched him (with my nails) trying to get my keys and cell phone from him, therefore I caused bodily harm, I ended up in DV classes. Another time, he kicked my car denting it pretty good. Nothing I could do there, it was considered marital property. You can damage your own property, apparently. Another time for threatening to throw my cats out if I left. Apparently domestic pets are considered property and you are free to do with what you want to (aside from harming the pet by some form of abuse, and throwing an inside cat out of the house when it is 10 degrees outside is not considered abuse). Everything he does is NOT considered abuse in law enforcement's eyes. 

It's my fault though because I DON'T call when he does abuse me in ways that LE will consider abuse. 

@ TG - Yes, I am making excuses, I'm just trying to figure out what is wrong with me for staying with him.


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## AgentD

To defend or make excuses for an abuser, is quite common among the abused. Once the abused can come out of the fog they will then look back and see they should have come out of the situation sooner. As long as you remain in the situation, you are an enabler, so therefore chances are he will not stop. You may not be the cause of it, but you are allowing it.


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## omega

Cherry said:


> Yes, I am making excuses, I'm just trying to figure out what is wrong with me for staying with him.


Can you maybe work on figuring all that out AFTER you've rescued yourself and your small children from the abuser? 

Even if you don't really care about your own safety, it is harming your children just being around it.


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## Cherry

omega said:


> Can you maybe work on figuring all that out AFTER you've rescued yourself and your small children from the abuser?
> 
> Even if you don't really care about your own safety, it is harming your children just being around it.


Good point, thank you. 

And CallaLily, I will call a local group today to see what some of my options are. Thank you.


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## Prodigal

One viable option for you, Cherry: go to the nearest court that handles domestic issues (in Maryland's court system, it is the district court), and speak to a domestic violence counselor. They will meet with you for free. In my state, it is also a requirement before going into the courtroom to tell the judge your story. I went in, kept it short and sweet, and walked out within 1/2 hour with a temporary restraining order. The following week, I went back to court, my abuser (ex-husband) didn't show up, and I got a permanent RO.

If you can remember dates of incidents - even though you didn't call 911 - you have a shot at getting him out of the house. Also, you can get him out of the house anyway if he isn't on the deed or title.

As a former battered spouse, I will tell you something that worked in my favor: the element of surprise. My ex had no idea I went through all the steps necessary to get him out of my life. Amazingly, he was so scared when three state police cruisers pulled up in our driveway AND followed him for several miles as he drove out of our community, that he folded like a house of cards.

The way an abuser keeps a victim trapped is with the element of fear. My ex quickly moved onto other women when it was crystal clear to him that I wasn't going to put up with his crap. Yes, I was so scared I had the dry heaves, but I got that piece of garbage out of my life.

I know you think your husband can outsmart you, but you are engaging in fearful, WHAT-IF thinking. That is what is keeping you stuck. Take it from a woman who was hit, shoved, dragged across floors, and sucker-punched for FIVE YEARS. I finally got mad enough that I was willing to fight back. Just remember, he is keeping you trapped because he knows you are afraid of him.


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## Jamison

Prodigal said:


> One viable option for you, Cherry: go to the nearest court that handles domestic issues (in Maryland's court system, it is the district court), and speak to a domestic violence counselor. They will meet with you for free. In my state, it is also a requirement before going into the courtroom to tell the judge your story. I went in, kept it short and sweet, and walked out within 1/2 hour with a temporary restraining order. The following week, I went back to court, my abuser (ex-husband) didn't show up, and I got a permanent RO.
> 
> If you can remember dates of incidents - even though you didn't call 911 - you have a shot at getting him out of the house. Also, you can get him out of the house anyway if he isn't on the deed or title.
> 
> As a former battered spouse, I will tell you something that worked in my favor: the element of surprise. My ex had no idea I went through all the steps necessary to get him out of my life. Amazingly, he was so scared when three state police cruisers pulled up in our driveway AND followed him for several miles as he drove out of our community, that he folded like a house of cards.
> 
> The way an abuser keeps a victim trapped is with the element of fear. My ex quickly moved onto other women when it was crystal clear to him that I wasn't going to put up with his crap. Yes, I was so scared I had the dry heaves, but I got that piece of garbage out of my life.
> 
> I know you think your husband can outsmart you, but you are engaging in fearful, WHAT-IF thinking. That is what is keeping you stuck. Take it from a woman who was hit, shoved, dragged across floors, and sucker-punched for FIVE YEARS. I finally got mad enough that I was willing to fight back. Just remember, he is keeping you trapped because he knows you are afraid of him.


:iagree::iagree:


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## that_girl

Cherry said:


> @ TG - Yes, I am making excuses, I'm just trying to figure out what is wrong with me for staying with him.


Well, figure that out once you get away from him.


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## Jamison

Cherry said:


> It's my fault though because I DON'T call when he does abuse me in ways that LE will consider abuse.
> 
> @ TG - Yes, I am making excuses, I'm just trying to figure out what is wrong with me for staying with him.



You stay with him because you suffer from abuse. Even if its not physical its sure enough mental/emotional. The mental/emotional abuse is what keeps you there. Your self respect/worth is shot!

I don't know to many people who up and leave the moment they are abused by their spouse. Yes I'm sure there are some who would hit the door the minute a hand was raised to them, but most people don't just leave right off the bat. They do stay, for months, sometimes years and years. Some people never leave.

You could have all the money in the world, a place to go, etc, but until you get the abuse mentality out of your head, you will likely stay and continue to make excuses. I doubt you could even answer a question honestly right now without your emotions clouding your judgment, and its from having the abuse mentality and making excuses. 

The question would be: Does your risk of staying outweigh that of leaving?


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## COGypsy

Jamison said:


> You stay with him because you suffer from abuse. Even if its not physical its sure enough mental/emotional. The mental/emotional abuse is what keeps you there. Your self respect/worth is shot!
> 
> *I don't know to many people who up and leave the moment they are abused by their spouse. Yes I'm sure there are some who would hit the door the minute a hand was raised to them, but most people don't just leave right off the bat. They do stay, for months, sometimes years and years. Some people never leave.*
> 
> You could have all the money in the world, a place to go, etc, but until you get the abuse mentality out of your head, you will likely stay and continue to make excuses. I doubt you could even answer a question honestly right now without your emotions clouding your judgment, and its from having the abuse mentality and making excuses.
> 
> The question would be: Does your risk of staying outweigh that of leaving?


That's the key right there. I used to run relationship violence groups for teen girls and we would always talk about how no one in their right minds would stick around if they got clocked on the first date for ordering the wrong thing. It's the thousand tiny steps before that first assault that make it okay, and are still making it okay. All those little power plays that convince you that he's right, he's smart, he's the one with the power and control and it's easier to just do what he wants you to do.

It's not true though. Look at his life. If he really were so crafty and and smart, he wouldn't have the criminal record that he does. He'd be a CEO. Lots of things would be different. 

There are lots of things that you can do to address the concerns that you have. Your kids are very young, that along with the extensive criminal history and history of domestic violence makes a strong case for supervised visitation or limited visitation right there. That also puts the burden of arranging that visitation on him. Not you. You could also request a guardian ad litem to look at the potential living/caregiving arrangements that each of you could provide and again, make the case for structured visitation. It's not an arrangement that can last forever, but it can last for quite a while. 

In the meantime, report everything. Actions have consequences. You never promised NOT to call the police for anything except hitting. Does that make it okay to kick you next? Bite you? He's going to find a lot of ways to get around that deal you made with him. That what he sees it as, you know, not a threat or a boundary. It's permission to do everything _except_ hit you.


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## hurtnohio

that_girl said:


> Well, when it gets too bad, she won't be able to leave  unless in an ambulance or ...worse.
> 
> I am not being flippant. I honestly worry. This kind of shet escalates so quickly.


I also have a bad feeling about this one. I've seen this kind of thing escalate straight to murder.


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## hurtnohio

COGypsy said:


> What scares me most about the whole incident is how calculating he was about it all. As "mad" as he may have been during the argument, he was still calm enough to _choose_ _not_ to hit you but to spit on you instead, because there was no consequence outlined for that. He said that himself, which pretty much eliminates the whole "losing my temper/ heat of the moment" defense. That's a HUGE red flag right there.
> 
> Whatever sympathy you may feel for his past, or camaraderie you may feel standing up against your mother with him--this is a man who can make deliberate decisions in the middle of an argument about the most effective way to assault and degrade you without implicating himself. If nothing else, I really hope you'll take golfergirl's advice and get your safety plan together ASAP.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

His calculation during the whole thing was very chilling for me to read. This sounds like the kind of guy who could put a bullet in your head and not even think twice about it. Very,very big red flag.


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## hurtnohio

I've probably said too much already, but there's one more point I think is important. Don't let all the "what ifs" about custody keep you from keeping you and your kids safe. I'm honestly worried about whether you'll still be alive to see 2012 if you stay with this guy. You're worried about custody issues that may be 2 or 3 years down the road.

I know there are a lot of unknowns out there, but I can tell you this: Based on what you've told us, I believe there is a better than 50-50 chance that he is going to seriously hurt you (or your kids) soon. I'm talking broken bones, ambulances, and possibly death kinds of hurting. This guy is so cold and calculating that it chills my blood to read your posts.

Talk to an abuse counselor (the free victim's advocate at the courthouse is a good option), explore your options, get a good lawyer. Whatever. But get away from that man! Please.


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## LimboGirl

hurtnohio said:


> I've probably said too much already, but there's one more point I think is important. Don't let all the "what ifs" about custody keep you from keeping you and your kids safe. I'm honestly worried about whether you'll still be alive to see 2012 if you stay with this guy. You're worried about custody issues that may be 2 or 3 years down the road.
> 
> I know there are a lot of unknowns out there, but I can tell you this: Based on what you've told us, I believe there is a better than 50-50 chance that he is going to seriously hurt you (or your kids) soon. I'm talking broken bones, ambulances, and possibly death kinds of hurting. This guy is so cold and calculating that it chills my blood to read your posts.
> 
> Talk to an abuse counselor (the free victim's advocate at the courthouse is a good option), explore your options, get a good lawyer. Whatever. But get away from that man! Please.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Laurae1967

I just want to say GOOD JOB for taking steps to get out of this situation. You recognize it's not healthy and that is a good thing. Give yourself credit for this.

I would encourage you to limit or stop all contact with your manipulative mother. She is not your ally and is just making your life more difficult. Don't allow the drama with your mother to create a false bond between you and your husband. He is not your friend and he's not to be trusted. 

Just remember that your mother gave you messages about yourself that are NOT TRUE. It takes some time to undo the damage that a dysfunctional parent can cause but it CAN and WILL happen if you get some therapy. A therapsit (find a psychologist) can be a strong support for you while you try to get out and can help you get stronger. A good therapist will teach you how to trust yourself more, to love and accept yourself more and view life in a healthier way.

You CAN do this!


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## RDJ

Cherry,

Something to consider? 

But first let me say that my prayers go out to you.

It appears that you are not quite ready to go, I understand your reasons. That being said, I think you should consider having a long term/short term plan.

*Long term*: Plan on taking the steps to remove him from your life. You need to protect yourself here too. Your leaving him may escalate him to more violence. Take the time to build a healthy support team and know exactly what/how you will proceed.

*Short term*: I agree that you should line up a safe place and have some stuff stored in case you need to get out quick. I also believe that you should start building resources before you attempt to move forward. I would add one more thought. You mentioned that he may agree to anger management/counseling if you were to work on your problems too. I would suggest that you take him up on it for two reasons.

1) It may help keep things from escalating while you work on your plans. There is a slim chance that he may get himself under control, and it buys you some time.

2) More importantly, If you getting all of his behaviors on record with a qualified therapist, it could be a big benefit to you. They would be a good person to have in your corner. Your situation would be well documented and they could give you help in finding the best resources?

I won’t pretend that I have a clue what I am talking about here. But it sounds logical and I thought I would put it up for thought?


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## Cherry

hurtnohio said:


> I've probably said too much already, but there's one more point I think is important. Don't let all the "what ifs" about custody keep you from keeping you and your kids safe. I'm honestly worried about whether you'll still be alive to see 2012 if you stay with this guy. You're worried about custody issues that may be 2 or 3 years down the road.
> 
> I know there are a lot of unknowns out there, but I can tell you this: Based on what you've told us, I believe there is a better than 50-50 chance that he is going to seriously hurt you (or your kids) soon. I'm talking broken bones, ambulances, and possibly death kinds of hurting. This guy is so cold and calculating that it chills my blood to read your posts.
> 
> Talk to an abuse counselor (the free victim's advocate at the courthouse is a good option), explore your options, get a good lawyer. Whatever. But get away from that man! Please.


I don't think anyone can ever say too much to me right now about this. This is the first time in 5 years I have reflected on the abuse aspect of my marriage and actually considering leaving because of it. I've dealt with all sorts of things in my marriage. But I have never in my life been in an abusive relationship with another man. I'm like most on this thread, I would stop the relationship the minute a guy even looked at me in a threatening manner. Of course what makes this different are our children and the custody implications. 

I too am starting to think it is only a matter of time before he hurts me worse than he has or hurts my kids. Of course, I've read up on if an abuser can change... Just like the time I researched crack cocaine users and if they can stop, the chances were slim on their own. He did stop crack, but only after law enforcement forced it on him for over a year and he changed people, places, and things. I'm beginning to think this is no different. He won't seek help on his own unless I agree to go too - He thinks this is a mutual communication issue. I let him know that we may have problems communicating, but that is where our "normal" marital problems stop and his own abuse problems begin. I can't love someone this way for the rest of my life. He doesn't get it.

Laurae - I've limited my contact with my mother to "I love u" texts. I'm not involving her in this or anything else that is going on. She has ulterior motives for me as an individual and for me to leave my H, I know that, so if/when I decide to make a move, I don't want her to influence me on this. 

Thank you gals!


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## Cherry

RDJ said:


> Cherry,
> 
> Something to consider?
> 
> But first let me say that my prayers go out to you.
> 
> It appears that you are not quite ready to go, I understand your reasons. That being said, I think you should consider having a long term/short term plan.
> 
> *Long term*: Plan on taking the steps to remove him from your life. You need to protect yourself here too. Your leaving him may escalate him to more violence. Take the time to build a healthy support team and know exactly what/how you will proceed.
> 
> *Short term*: I agree that you should line up a safe place and have some stuff stored in case you need to get out quick. I also believe that you should start building resources before you attempt to move forward. I would add one more thought. You mentioned that he may agree to anger management/counseling if you were to work on your problems too. I would suggest that you take him up on it for two reasons.
> 
> 1) It may help keep things from escalating while you work on your plans. There is a slim chance that he may get himself under control, and it buys you some time.
> 
> 2) More importantly, If you getting all of his behaviors on record with a qualified therapist, it could be a big benefit to you. They would be a good person to have in your corner. Your situation would be well documented and they could give you help in finding the best resources?
> 
> I won’t pretend that I have a clue what I am talking about here. But it sounds logical and I thought I would put it up for thought?


RDJ - I have considered the counseling together for the very reason you suggest! I have told him it is his anger problem to deal with alone, but at the same time if I can get him to open up to a counselor about it, it is documented. I think it's a great suggestion personally. Thank you for the prayers as well


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## SadieBrown

If I were you I would try to get him into counseling for all the RDJ listed. Plus if you go to counseling also it will look good if and when you go for sole custody of the kids in a divorce. 

In the meanwhile don't let him slide on anything. If he hits you, puhes, spits or anything call the police. You need to get his abuse on record. 

At the same time you need to make sure you don't do anything that can reflect badly on you. If he takes your car keys and cell phone don't fight him for them. You need to get you a duplicate set of car keys and have them hidden where you can get to them. Likewise for a cell phone, you can get one of those inexpensive pay-as-you-go cell phones and keep it hidden also. So you will have both if he takes your orginials. Oh, and a piece of advice about the car keys - when you have the duplicates check to make sure they work before you hide them. Some times duplicate keys don't work and when he is in a rage and you are trying to get away is not the time to find that out. If they don't work the store who made them for you should make more for free. Hide some cash with you extra keys and cell phone also. I kept a stash of cash hiden from my husband for a long time. I opened a box of tampons from the bottom, slide the cash in between the tampons, glued the bottom back together and put it back on the shelf. No man is going to mess with a box of tampons, so it set there for a long time until I needed it.  With a little thought you can find 101 places around the house to stash things that he would never think of looking for them.


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## golfergirl

Cherry said:


> RDJ - I have considered the counseling together for the very reason you suggest! I have told him it is his anger problem to deal with alone, but at the same time if I can get him to open up to a counselor about it, it is documented. I think it's a great suggestion personally. Thank you
> for the prayers as well


I had suggested the safety plan and hiding a bag in your car. Upon further reading - don't hide it in your car! Hide it at your work or a trusted friends. Never a place where he could stumble across it. Also start skimming some cash to add to your stash. Copies of all credit cards, bank statements etc., so you can cancel in a moment's notice. Copies of previous tax returns should he choose to destroy them. Copies of kids records, birth certificates, health insurance numbers etc. In bag have a few changes of clothes for all and toys.
Consider purchasing a cheap pay as you go cell and strapping in under a seat in the car. If you have to run, you have an emergency untraceable phone. Actually where I live an unactivated phone will dial 911 (something to check). Hide a spare car key in a magnetic case under the wheel well in case he grabs your keys.
Those are a few things I can think of - but cover your tracks well.
I agree with getting his demons on record with a professional. Use what you can.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## COGypsy

Cherry said:


> RDJ - I have considered the counseling together for the very reason you suggest! I have told him it is his anger problem to deal with alone, but at the same time if I can get him to open up to a counselor about it, it is documented. I think it's a great suggestion personally. Thank you for the prayers as well


Just be careful with couples counseling...in abusive relationships it tends to provide the abuser with more "ammo" to use against their partner. It can be a good strategy, as you've considered, but you have to be careful about being vulnerable in therapy since it will almost certainly be used against you later on. Also, be prepared for him to be done with it as soon as any accountability for the situation is placed on him. Abusers justify their actions by convincing themselves that "you made them do it" and "if only you'd xyz'd this or that..." which of course is some impossible moving target anyway. So once a counselor suggests that he might be be wrong for doing what he did in any given situation, then he may be out the door. That being said, it does create a record and can be a valuable document for later proceedings if you go into it for that reason...


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## RDJ

All good advice, I would add.

By NO means is it right! But it seems to me, *to protect yourself and your children*, you will need to try and pacify him for long enough to get your path worked out. 

There is simply no ways of knowing what he is capable of or how he will react to your letting him go. 

It seems that the only SAFE way is to let him think that you are trying to work things out… doing your best to keep things from escalating until you can get yourself into a safe situation. Again, it’s not right, but you have to consider what is safest for you and your children?


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## COGypsy

golfergirl said:


> I had suggested the safety plan and hiding a bag in your car. Upon further reading - don't hide it in your car! Hide it at your work or a trusted friends. Never a place where he could stumble across it. Also start skimming some cash to add to your stash. Copies of all credit cards, bank statements etc., so you can cancel in a moment's notice. Copies of previous tax returns should he choose to destroy them. Copies of kids records, birth certificates, health insurance numbers etc. In bag have a few changes of clothes for all and toys.
> Consider purchasing a cheap pay as you go cell and strapping in under a seat in the car. If you have to run, you have an emergency untraceable phone. Actually where I live an unactivated phone will dial 911 (something to check). Hide a spare car key in a magnetic case under the wheel well in case he grabs your keys.
> Those are a few things I can think of - but cover your tracks well.
> I agree with getting his demons on record with a professional. Use what you can.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Actually a pay-as-you go phone with some minimum number of minutes is pretty cheap. Just be sure to program your essential numbers into it. 911 is obviously easy to remember, but as far as things like calling work if you're going to be late, day care providers, etc. ... we don't know anybody's actual number any more. We usually rely on our phones. So a programmed pay as you go phone with your key contacts in it is worth its weight in gold when you really need it.


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## calif_hope

Cherry, I don't have advice, insight, or history to share with you...I only have a simple request.

In your posts, please stop referring to your husband as a MAN. Through words and deeds he has abandoned his right to be considered one. He is male, a male child, certainly not a man, not even close. Young lady, if he can't or refuses to man up, you must move on.....if you have sons it is your moral and great responsibilty to raise them to be men, men of character and honor......you will have to work hard and make good choices to mitigate his influence until they stand on their own

---- A member of the MAN club 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FieryHairedLady

Cherry get out now. It will only get worse.

Think about what you are showing your kids if you stay.


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## Michelle27

I've been watching this thread for awhile but don't think I've posted yet. My first marriage was abusive in all ways and like you, I worried about the child of the marriage and what would happen if I left. I also took my vows seriously and figured I could change him or change enough about myself that I wouldn't be subjected to such abuse anymore. Over the years, I called the police (and then called back and cancelled), stopped by the police station and picked up pamphlets that I left laying around about domestic violence and also took books out of the library dealing with the subject thinking he might get the hint. I also got promises after many episodes that he would go to counseling if it ever happened again. None of it made a difference, and he actually would be snippy and sarcastic when I'd call him on his promise to get counseling saying, "ha ha...I lied. What are you going to do about it?". 

What finally got me packing for my then 5 year old daughter and I was the realization that she was learning a model of marriage that I didn't want her to learn and then consciously or not look for that kind of relationship later in her life. It may be something you want to think about.


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## strong like bull

My husband spit in my face> He's been brushing his teeth with my **** for a week. Oh it's on


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