# All the tell tale signs of cheating...but



## Alpha (Feb 18, 2013)

I would like to all hear your opinion on this, especially from those experienced long time TAM members. Women especially, please free to chime in. 

If you received these lines, or your wife exhibited these actions, how sure are you that she was carrying on an affair, even if you do not have any concrete evidence, ie. Facebook, email, private investigator?

1. The classic "I love you but I am not in love with you"
2. You are controlling.
3. I have felt like this for over 5 years. 
4. I need my space.
5. We need to work on ourselves first before we can work on this marriage.
6. Counseling won't work for us.
7. Marriage history re-write. 


My marriage is over, but yes, these lines were given to me. There were more and I already forgot the other ones, maybe you guys would like to add some more to jolt my memory. 

So what do you say, cheating or not?


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

You dont love me, you only love the idea of me.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Numbers 1, 2, 3 are insignificant.

Number 4 is borderline because if the H has been controlling then hell yeah she needs space.

!Number 5 and 6 are the red flags. ?But in the absence of emails, texts or a pattern of behavior indicating an affair, they don't mean much.

Marriage history rewrite is a very subjective term. It may be rewrite to you when it is her truth.

I'm sorry for your marriage. IMO, which counts for absolute sh!t, you have no indicators of an affair.


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## SkyHigh (Jun 17, 2012)

I got a few of these. 



> 1. The classic "I love you but I am not in love with you" *Read: I'm too shallow to make a marriage work.*
> 2. You are controlling. *Read: You won't let me live like a married single.*
> 3. I have felt like this for over 5 years. Didn't get this one.
> 4. I need my space. *Read: It's over, you just don't know it yet.*
> ...


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

It would be more than enough to motivate me to find objective evidence of an affair.

If I still gave a damn.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I'd certainly be looking for an OM


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

Alpha said:


> So what do you say, cheating or not?


These things seen in conjunction with unexplained missing time; secrecy in cell phone/computer use; preening with the hair, dress, etc. for dates; a new "friend" etc.


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## Alpha (Feb 18, 2013)

Wiserforit said:


> These things seen in conjunction with unexplained missing time; secrecy in cell phone/computer use; preening with the hair, dress, etc. for dates; a new "friend" etc.


Got that too.


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## SkyHigh (Jun 17, 2012)

Good way to check for unsavory behavior...

...wait for the whole "RESPECT MY PRIVACY" line. Right there, he or she is hiding something.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

What was the "but" part?


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## Alpha (Feb 18, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> What was the "but" part?


The BUT part is I never could find the smoking gun. 

When I first posted my situation two years ago, I explained in detail what was going on, especially the conversations, and I was told here on TAM that my story was nothing new that there was a high probability that my wife was cheating.

I thought I was unique but after reading stories here there are just too many similarities.


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## Alpha (Feb 18, 2013)

SkyHigh said:


> Good way to check for unsavory behavior...
> 
> ...wait for the whole "RESPECT MY PRIVACY" line. Right there, he or she is hiding something.


Ah yes, I remember that one as well.


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## Alpha (Feb 18, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> Numbers 1, 2, 3 are insignificant.
> 
> Number 4 is borderline because if the H has been controlling then hell yeah she needs space.
> 
> ...


Nice to hear your perspective on this. Here on TAM once you get the "I love you but...." line it is considered a serious red flag. I never could find the smoking gun but got all the classic warning lines that members here on TAM say to look out for.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

On it's own i agree with Anon pink but later you post that she IS preening and dressing nicely and your noticing missing time etc...
That changes things....

Having said that... It's almost a reflex here for men/people to say that the W left for another man regardless of fact. I think because it's easier to take... than just being left.

I know several women/moms/wives who ended their marriages simply to get out of the marriage. Some didn't date for years...my sister was one of them. 
She just wanted to leave. They share a child and she speaks really nicely about her ex and says she will always love him and that he's great dad. 

So ILYBINILWY can sometimes mean...just that.


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## strayingmom (May 20, 2013)

Has she started taking better care of her self? Tanning, working out, eating less? Maybe she has baught new sexy panties/bras/lingerie. You may even notice she has baught new shampoos, or even a new body wash. Not saying if she is doing any of these she cheating but if these are being combined with some from above definitely deserves a second more deeper look into things....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## joshbjoshb (Jul 11, 2011)

Alpha said:


> 1. The classic "I love you but I am not in love with you"
> 2. You are controlling.
> 3. I have felt like this for over 5 years.
> 4. I need my space.
> ...


Gosh! I just got couple of them (I get it plenty!)

In my case, I can be 100% sure it's not an affair. It's just someone who doesn't know how to maintain an healthy relationship

I assume that "we need to work on ourseleves first" meant "you need to work on yourself", right?.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

Alpha said:


> 1. The classic "I love you but I am not in love with you"
> 2. You are controlling.
> 3. I have felt like this for over 5 years.
> 4. I need my space.
> ...


I have done 1, and 5 and never cheated. I'm not married, but it was a guy I dated long term. He didn't do any of these on the list and he cheated.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

it's not definitive but it makes it worthy of investigation


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## Wing Man (Jun 8, 2012)

I would definitely be suspicious and it would definitely be over if I ever found out that cheating was involved.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Alpha said:


> My marriage is over


Odd. These words must be written some kind of secret substance that can only be detected by me. Hmmm. I wonder if the OP saw them even. Very strange. Because if anyone else saw them, they would have said the first thing that came to MY mind...

Why do you care?


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

MrK said:


> Odd. These words must be written some kind of secret substance that can only be detected by me. Hmmm. I wonder if the OP saw them even. Very strange. Because if anyone else saw them, they would have said the first thing that came to MY mind...
> 
> Why do you care?


Clearly MrK you have special magical eyes that see things no-one else does 

OR

Maybe Alpha just wants some closure. 
Maybe he's at the stage of wondering where it all went wrong.
Maybe he cares because this woman was his family once and now shes gone..... and he wants to know why.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

None of those words would make me automatically think cheating was an issue but then again I am not trigger happy on accusing people of cheating which seems to be the way it is here.

I would take from those words that your wife has had enough of you as a person, you are controlling and she does not love you anymore. She has felt like that for some time and is sick of it, she is going to get herself together and move on.

Would take a stab at it and say that your behaviour pushed her out the door.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> Numbers 1, 2, 3 are insignificant.
> 
> Number 4 is borderline because if the H has been controlling then hell yeah she needs space.
> 
> ...


Pink....

You don't get out enough....Every one if the indicators the OP listed are textbook classic for a MLC , EA or PA spouse......

The list looks like the first page in the "coping with infidelity" handbook....

the woodchuck


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

Alpha said:


> I never could find the smoking gun


Some would say that divorcing you was more than just a hint.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Holland said:


> you are controlling and she does not love you anymore. She has felt like that for some time and is sick of it, she is going to get herself together and move on.
> 
> Would take a stab at it and say that your behaviour pushed her out the door.


The screen name "Alpha" screams domineering and controlling

IMO

When we grow up, we don't like that!


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Woodchuck said:


> Pink....
> 
> You don't get out enough....Every one if the indicators the OP listed are textbook classic for a MLC , EA or PA spouse......
> 
> ...


Not an absolute. I have said/felt pretty much all of those things and never once considered an affair. To much affair paranoia here.


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## memyselfandi (Jan 10, 2012)

I think you're jumping the gun on this one.

First of all, because your wife says these things..it gives me the idea that maybe she just wants more from you. Maybe she feels that counseling won't work as you're not one to open up?

I have my doubts she's cheating as you mentioned nothing about her lying to you..doing things behind your back, etc.

She's simply stating the truth and asking you to probably change your ways...telling you that counseling won't work as she knows you better than we all do.

If that's the case...either change your ways or make an extra effort to make her believe that counseling WILL work for the both of you..

I believe the ball is in your court...


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## Alpha (Feb 18, 2013)

Interesting comments from everyone. 

When my wife first told me she wanted to move out, it hit me like a brick, and I was caught totally off guard.

So one day I just went on a google search looking for one line help and was brought to this site. I posted my situation under a different pseudonym a year and a half ago. When I was explaining my story, people started warning me that I had red flags of an affair everywhere. I couldn't believe it. I couldn't imagine my wife fooling around behind my back.

I learned about "the speech" here on TAM and how the "I love you but.." almost always means an affair. So does "I need my space" I started snooping after reading about this but could not find anything really concrete so I let it go. 

Now 1.5 years later, after coming back on TAM, I see the same lines being repeated over and over again and most of them have turned out to be affairs. So I asked myself, did I miss something?


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## Alpha (Feb 18, 2013)

Blonde said:


> The screen name "Alpha" screams domineering and controlling
> 
> IMO
> 
> When we grow up, we don't like that!


Its really the name of my favorite Camera brand, but I figured it might be a controversial pseudonym to some women in a marriage forum.


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## Alpha (Feb 18, 2013)

strayingmom said:


> Has she started taking better care of her self? Tanning, working out, eating less? Maybe she has baught new sexy panties/bras/lingerie. You may even notice she has baught new shampoos, or even a new body wash. Not saying if she is doing any of these she cheating but if these are being combined with some from above definitely deserves a second more deeper look into things....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I didn't even mention this in my first post, but two months before I got the speech, she went on a diet and dropped 25 lbs.


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## SkyHigh (Jun 17, 2012)

Blonde said:


> The screen name "Alpha" screams domineering and controlling
> 
> IMO
> 
> When we grow up, we don't like that!


But if his user handle happened to be "Beta', you wouldn't have made this witty remark? 

Not to generalize, but some of you women really love to jump to that bandwagon very quickly.


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## Anubis (Jul 12, 2011)

Alpha said:


> Now 1.5 years later, after coming back on TAM, I see the same lines being repeated over and over again and most of them have turned out to be affairs. So I asked myself, did I miss something?


You didn't mss anything. What's going on is that, based on the things you told us the statistical ODDS that she either has, is having, or is considering having an affair are very high. That does not guarantee that she really is, but given 100 couples experiencing the things you described, some very large percentage in that group will be. As much as we like to think our circumstances are special, given how we exist as individuals, the truth is that they are not. One good thing about the forums here is that there will be variation, nuance, and disagreement in the responses offered. You job is to figure out how to best use it for your specific situation.

In my personal situation, my ( now ex-) wife managed to have multiple affairs and successfuly hide them and manipulate and gaslight me for 15 years. It wasn't until I did forensics on old computers that I got my eyes opened. 

So, when people like me read your story and the question is asked "could she be...' Some if us are going to say " yes, it's possible " based on our experiences. 

What you want us something a lot of married people wish for - to know the truth with certainty and completeness. The idea of going forward in our lives while being deceived or unaware is a hard thing to take. After my divorce, my ex-wife slipped up once in response to an unexpected verbal jab from me and said "yeah, you will never know [the full extent of what she had done]" unaware I was bating her with knowledge I had from old chat logs of hers. At all other times during the years she has veminentaly maintained that she's never done anything that I didn't know about. (A huge amount lies based on the evidence I've found)


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## Jack99 (Nov 21, 2010)

Hi Alpha,

Do you mean the marriage is truly over, as in you're divorced? If that's the case, then I would suggest it's a moot point whether she was cheating or not. It's not an issue you have to contend with any more. 

Other than that, I have heard the lines that marriage counseling won't work, that we're "too different" (also probably true), and that all marriages aren't happy anyway. But I don't think she's cheating. We just have different visions of marriage.


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## Alpha (Feb 18, 2013)

To clarify, no we have not divorced but been separated for 1.5 years already. I say its over because we both have moved on and don't communicate with each other any longer. 

Like Anubis mentioned above, statistically those lines would mean an affair, but personally I don't think she was having one. And yes, the point should be moot now.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Alpha said:


> I would like to all hear your opinion on this, especially from those experienced long time TAM members. Women especially, please free to chime in.
> 
> If you received these lines, or your wife exhibited these actions, how sure are you that she was carrying on an affair, even if you do not have any concrete evidence, ie. Facebook, email, private investigator?
> 
> ...


I haven't read the other replies, but I've had those same conversations with past partners, and I have never cheated. So while they *do* suggest cheating, it's not a guarantee. The absence of other evidence also doesn't guarantee she isn't.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

So your living apart for the last 1.5 years and have no communication.

I'm gonna say, she's most certainly dating someone.

Sounds like the marriage is done, have you filed by now?


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