# Approaching an angry BS? Need advice.



## unsureone

Long story short, I am a WS and I have made my H frustrated and angry with a whole lot of things including an EA. Almost 7 years since d-day and still in turmoil. 

One of my many many flaws is not being upfront. I want to work on this but I find it very difficult when I never know if my H will snap. It could be something I think is simple but he does not or whatever it may be. How do you approach someone when they are this angry?

H considers not telling him anything he would find important to be lying or not upfront. He is brutally honest and expects the same.


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## MountainRunner

Not sure if this'll be much help, but I too am the WS. My wife and I are pretty much through the "Wrath of God" phase of my indiscretions, but while we were mired in it and she was pissed I got some positive results when I would say something like...

"I don't blame you for being angry and I deserve it. What can I do for you to help you? What can I do at this time toward working to make things right again?"

Forgive me for asking, but he is still hurt (cuz that is fundamentally what anger is, yes?) after seven years? It's been seven years since D-Day? Any IC/MC for either/both of you?


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## rhonda1971

7 years after d-day and still in turmoil? that's a long road. what exactly have you done to make him feel secure with you? if you have not already done so, you guys should seek counseling. you really need it. big time!!



MountainRunner said:


> Not sure if this'll be much help, but I too am the WS. My wife and I are pretty much through the "Wrath of God" phase of my indiscretions, but while we were mired in it and she was pissed I got some positive results when I would say something like...
> 
> "I don't blame you for being angry and I deserve it. What can I do for you to help you? What can I do at this time toward working to make things right again?"
> 
> Forgive me for asking, but he is still hurt (cuz that is fundamentally what anger is, yes?) after seven years? It's been seven years since D-Day? Any IC/MC for either/both of you?


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## SamuraiJack

Google the "betrayed spouses bill of rights".
It may help to understand how much damage you did and how to come to terms with it.


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## Cynthia

unsureone said:


> Long story short, I am a WS and I have made my H frustrated and angry with a whole lot of things including an EA. Almost 7 years since d-day and still in turmoil.
> 
> One of my many many flaws is not being upfront. I want to work on this but I find it very difficult when I never know if my H will snap. It could be something I think is simple but he does not or whatever it may be. How do you approach someone when they are this angry?
> 
> H considers not telling him anything he would find important to be lying or not upfront. He is brutally honest and expects the same.


Was he this way before the affair?


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## cdbaker

Yep, 7 years is a long time. I'm assuming by "angry" you mean that he is still getting VERY angry, or explosive about it at times. If so, that's a long time for that to still be happening. I'd say he needs to get into some therapy (or marriage counseling for you both) to try to find help with processing through what happened and making peace with the situation, including finding forgiveness for you. It doesn't mean he has to forget about it, but he does need to forgive you and be able to move forward with you, or choose to divorce. He can't just stay in limbo forever, that's not fair to either of you.

It sounds like you are saying that you want to be completely honest with him, but you are struggling with his explosive responses to some things that you hadn't realized would be triggers for him. I think him getting some help with processing through everything would solve most of that. If he can reach that point, then you should be able to just go with an "honesty is the best policy" approach and not have fear of him exploding when you share.

Is there anything in particular that he has been especially upset about recently? Anything that he feels you are doing wrong or is inappropriate, but you don't agree?


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## unsureone

MountainRunner said:


> Not sure if this'll be much help, but I too am the WS. My wife and I are pretty much through the "Wrath of God" phase of my indiscretions, but while we were mired in it and she was pissed I got some positive results when I would say something like...
> 
> "I don't blame you for being angry and I deserve it. What can I do for you to help you? What can I do at this time toward working to make things right again?"
> 
> Forgive me for asking, but he is still hurt (cuz that is fundamentally what anger is, yes?) after seven years? It's been seven years since D-Day? Any IC/MC for either/both of you?


Yes, very hurt. And yes tried therapy, its not for him. And it was too expensive for me.


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## unsureone

CynthiaDe said:


> Was he this way before the affair?


He frustrated easily, but no. He treated me very well.


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## Cynthia

unsureone said:


> He frustrated easily, but no. He treated me very well.


Do you want to stay with him if he continues down this path of constant anger towards you? It is time for him to process through what you did and to learn how to have a healthy relationship with you, if he wants to stay. Staying and punishing you for the rest of your life is not good for either of you.


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## unsureone

cdbaker said:


> Yep, 7 years is a long time. I'm assuming by "angry" you mean that he is still getting VERY angry, or explosive about it at times. If so, that's a long time for that to still be happening. I'd say he needs to get into some therapy (or marriage counseling for you both) to try to find help with processing through what happened and making peace with the situation, including finding forgiveness for you. It doesn't mean he has to forget about it, but he does need to forgive you and be able to move forward with you, or choose to divorce. He can't just stay in limbo forever, that's not fair to either of you.
> 
> He does not want therapy and he says I have not earned forgiveness.
> 
> It sounds like you are saying that you want to be completely honest with him, but you are struggling with his explosive responses to some things that you hadn't realized would be triggers for him. I think him getting some help with processing through everything would solve most of that. If he can reach that point, then you should be able to just go with an "honesty is the best policy" approach and not have fear of him exploding when you share.
> 
> I do want to be completely and totally honest with him, even if I know it will frustrate him. I try my best to understand his triggers. I have not always been good at this but I try.
> 
> Is there anything in particular that he has been especially upset about recently? Anything that he feels you are doing wrong or is inappropriate, but you don't agree?


Everything I feel i do is wrong because I never know what might be dissected into something else. We are total and complete opposite in every way. The true opposites attract. I used to love this, but its very difficult in seeking understanding. So if I see something one way, he may see it as something else. I do try to think like he does, but honestly its not easy. And I am not looking for easy, but when your opposite - its very very hard to figure it out or even understand.


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## unsureone

CynthiaDe said:


> Do you want to stay with him if he continues down this path of constant anger towards you? It is time for him to process through what you did and to learn how to have a healthy relationship with you, if he wants to stay. Staying and punishing you for the rest of your life is not good for either of you.


No! I know I screwed up. I know I have done this to us, but I can not stay in this forever because our kids and he deserve better out of life. I have a time I set, and if we are not anywhere better, even a shred, I need to leave. He deserves to be happy. I deserve to be alone and miserable.


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## unsureone

rhonda1971 said:


> 7 years after d-day and still in turmoil? that's a long road. what exactly have you done to make him feel secure with you? if you have not already done so, you guys should seek counseling. you really need it. big time!!


I have jumped through hoops doing whatever he has asked me to. But I failed to change my thought patterns towards us and that damaged us big time. 

We tried counseling, its not for him. I stopped pushing.


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## unsureone

SamuraiJack said:


> Google the "betrayed spouses bill of rights".
> It may help to understand how much damage you did and how to come to terms with it.



I did and I agree ti it all but the highlighted part!


Betrayed Spouse Bill of Rights

30 Oct 2008 45 Comments

by jemjester in adultery, betrayal, life, recovery Tags: affair, betrayed, cheating, infidelity, recovery, rights, self respect

I posted this today on a support board and felt I should share it here.

Betrayed Spouses Bill of Rights
In a world where a marriage is as likely to end as not, we sometimes forget what a partnership is in the early days after discovery of infidelity. We lose ourselves in the desperation to hold onto your loved one. Remembering your rights will help you no matter which path your marriage takes.

1- You have a right to the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. By having an affair, your spouse has closed off the relationship with you and opened one with the OP (other person). You have a right to insist this is reversed for your healing and to assure that loyalties have been realigned.

2- You have the right to trust- but verify. Trust has been broken, ‘snooping’ is not snooping. It is verifying that someone proven to be a liar, sneak and cheat has changed their ways. Like an addict, a WS(wayward spouse) will often go back to their emotional fix. You have a right to verify this is not happening.

3- You have the right to insist there are only two people in the marriage. That choice was made when you made vows to each other. Even a moment with a third person is too much. You owe your WS no time to ‘think about it’. There’s a marriage or there’s none.

4- You have a right to know who the OP is, the flip of this is you do not have a right to harm or harass this person. Hold yourself to a better standard than the OP did.

5- You have the right to choose to give the gift of reconciliation or to divorce. You have the right to take some time to make that choice. If you one day realize you cannot live with the truth of what has been done, you have the right to walk away.

6- You have the right to insist your WS gets STD testing done and to see the results. Even if the WS claims it has not gotten physical, as many WSs will admit to “only a kiss” when it has gone much further.

7- You have the right to insist that your WS initiates and honors NC (no contact) immediately. You have a right to have input and to be a witness to how NC is established.

8- You have a right to set and enforce boundaries. This is not blackmail or any of the other negative words your WS might use. This you protecting yourself.

9- You have a right to hold onto evidence for as long as you need it to feel safe. Your WS has created an atmosphere of risk and danger. It is natural to have a safety net to counteract what has been brought into your marriage.

10- You have a right to know who your WS’s friends are and the nature of their interactions. If it is kept a secret, it is not healthy for the marriage and therefore something is amiss.

11- You have the right to out the affair to anyone you deem will help you and/or your marriage. This is not your secret to keep, this is not your shame to hold. You owe no protection to those that failed to protect you.

12- You have a right to heal on your timeline. As long as you are making steady progress, you are healing. It is a slow process and a WS that says things along the lines of, “You’ll never get over this!” does not have a full grasp of the damage betrayal causes. This is a healing process that takes from 18 months to five years.

13- You have a right to yell, cry, fall apart and otherwise handle this in any way that relieves some of the devastating pain, shock and loss of trust. Your world has been turned on its end. You do not have the right to physically, verbally or otherwise abuse your spouse.

14- You have the right to insist on a true marriage. A marriage of partners, where you love, honor and protect each other. If you feel your marriage is missing one of these components, either fixing it or leaving are your only two options. You don’t have the right to cheat and/or turn someone else into a betrayed spouse.



15- You have a right to love yourself. Often the betrayed have forgotten themselves as an individual. This is the optimum time to remind yourself that you are unique and lovable in your own right. That as much as you might love your spouse, you should love yourself enough to refuse any sort of mistreatment.


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## SamuraiJack

unsureone said:


> I did and I agree ti it all but the highlighted part!
> 
> 
> Betrayed Spouse Bill of Rights
> 
> 30 Oct 2008 45 Comments
> 
> by jemjester in adultery, betrayal, life, recovery Tags: affair, betrayed, cheating, infidelity, recovery, rights, self respect
> 
> I posted this today on a support board and felt I should share it here.
> 
> Betrayed Spouses Bill of Rights
> In a world where a marriage is as likely to end as not, we sometimes forget what a partnership is in the early days after discovery of infidelity. We lose ourselves in the desperation to hold onto your loved one. Remembering your rights will help you no matter which path your marriage takes.
> 
> 1- You have a right to the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. By having an affair, your spouse has closed off the relationship with you and opened one with the OP (other person). You have a right to insist this is reversed for your healing and to assure that loyalties have been realigned.
> 
> 2- You have the right to trust- but verify. Trust has been broken, ‘snooping’ is not snooping. It is verifying that someone proven to be a liar, sneak and cheat has changed their ways. Like an addict, a WS(wayward spouse) will often go back to their emotional fix. You have a right to verify this is not happening.
> 
> 3- You have the right to insist there are only two people in the marriage. That choice was made when you made vows to each other. Even a moment with a third person is too much. You owe your WS no time to ‘think about it’. There’s a marriage or there’s none.
> 
> 4- You have a right to know who the OP is, the flip of this is you do not have a right to harm or harass this person. Hold yourself to a better standard than the OP did.
> 
> 5- You have the right to choose to give the gift of reconciliation or to divorce. You have the right to take some time to make that choice. If you one day realize you cannot live with the truth of what has been done, you have the right to walk away.
> 
> 6- You have the right to insist your WS gets STD testing done and to see the results. Even if the WS claims it has not gotten physical, as many WSs will admit to “only a kiss” when it has gone much further.
> 
> 7- You have the right to insist that your WS initiates and honors NC (no contact) immediately. You have a right to have input and to be a witness to how NC is established.
> 
> 8- You have a right to set and enforce boundaries. This is not blackmail or any of the other negative words your WS might use. This you protecting yourself.
> 
> 9- You have a right to hold onto evidence for as long as you need it to feel safe. Your WS has created an atmosphere of risk and danger. It is natural to have a safety net to counteract what has been brought into your marriage.
> 
> 10- You have a right to know who your WS’s friends are and the nature of their interactions. If it is kept a secret, it is not healthy for the marriage and therefore something is amiss.
> 
> 11- You have the right to out the affair to anyone you deem will help you and/or your marriage. This is not your secret to keep, this is not your shame to hold. You owe no protection to those that failed to protect you.
> 
> 12- You have a right to heal on your timeline. As long as you are making steady progress, you are healing. It is a slow process and a WS that says things along the lines of, “You’ll never get over this!” does not have a full grasp of the damage betrayal causes. This is a healing process that takes from 18 months to five years.
> 
> 13- You have a right to yell, cry, fall apart and otherwise handle this in any way that relieves some of the devastating pain, shock and loss of trust. Your world has been turned on its end. You do not have the right to physically, verbally or otherwise abuse your spouse.
> 
> 14- You have the right to insist on a true marriage. A marriage of partners, where you love, honor and protect each other. If you feel your marriage is missing one of these components, either fixing it or leaving are your only two options. You don’t have the right to cheat and/or turn someone else into a betrayed spouse.
> 
> 
> 
> 15- You have a right to love yourself. Often the betrayed have forgotten themselves as an individual. This is the optimum time to remind yourself that you are unique and lovable in your own right. That as much as you might love your spouse, you should love yourself enough to refuse any sort of mistreatment.


Have you shown it to him?


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## unsureone

SamuraiJack said:


> unsureone said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did and I agree ti it all but the highlighted part!
> 
> 
> Betrayed Spouse Bill of Rights
> 
> 30 Oct 2008 45 Comments
> 
> by jemjester in adultery, betrayal, life, recovery Tags: affair, betrayed, cheating, infidelity, recovery, rights, self respect
> 
> I posted this today on a support board and felt I should share it here.
> 
> Betrayed Spouses Bill of Rights
> In a world where a marriage is as likely to end as not, we sometimes forget what a partnership is in the early days after discovery of infidelity. We lose ourselves in the desperation to hold onto your loved one. Remembering your rights will help you no matter which path your marriage takes.
> 
> 1- You have a right to the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. By having an affair, your spouse has closed off the relationship with you and opened one with the OP (other person). You have a right to insist this is reversed for your healing and to assure that loyalties have been realigned.
> 
> 2- You have the right to trust- but verify. Trust has been broken, ?snooping? is not snooping. It is verifying that someone proven to be a liar, sneak and cheat has changed their ways. Like an addict, a WS(wayward spouse) will often go back to their emotional fix. You have a right to verify this is not happening.
> 
> 3- You have the right to insist there are only two people in the marriage. That choice was made when you made vows to each other. Even a moment with a third person is too much. You owe your WS no time to ?think about it?. There?s a marriage or there?s none.
> 
> 4- You have a right to know who the OP is, the flip of this is you do not have a right to harm or harass this person. Hold yourself to a better standard than the OP did.
> 
> 5- You have the right to choose to give the gift of reconciliation or to divorce. You have the right to take some time to make that choice. If you one day realize you cannot live with the truth of what has been done, you have the right to walk away.
> 
> 6- You have the right to insist your WS gets STD testing done and to see the results. Even if the WS claims it has not gotten physical, as many WSs will admit to ?only a kiss? when it has gone much further.
> 
> 7- You have the right to insist that your WS initiates and honors NC (no contact) immediately. You have a right to have input and to be a witness to how NC is established.
> 
> 8- You have a right to set and enforce boundaries. This is not blackmail or any of the other negative words your WS might use. This you protecting yourself.
> 
> 9- You have a right to hold onto evidence for as long as you need it to feel safe. Your WS has created an atmosphere of risk and danger. It is natural to have a safety net to counteract what has been brought into your marriage.
> 
> 10- You have a right to know who your WS?s friends are and the nature of their interactions. If it is kept a secret, it is not healthy for the marriage and therefore something is amiss.
> 
> 11- You have the right to out the affair to anyone you deem will help you and/or your marriage. This is not your secret to keep, this is not your shame to hold. You owe no protection to those that failed to protect you.
> 
> 12- You have a right to heal on your timeline. As long as you are making steady progress, you are healing. It is a slow process and a WS that says things along the lines of, ?You?ll never get over this!? does not have a full grasp of the damage betrayal causes. This is a healing process that takes from 18 months to five years.
> 
> 13- You have a right to yell, cry, fall apart and otherwise handle this in any way that relieves some of the devastating pain, shock and loss of trust. Your world has been turned on its end. You do not have the right to physically, verbally or otherwise abuse your spouse.
> 
> 14- You have the right to insist on a true marriage. A marriage of partners, where you love, honor and protect each other. If you feel your marriage is missing one of these components, either fixing it or leaving are your only two options. You don?t have the right to cheat and/or turn someone else into a betrayed spouse.
> 
> 
> 
> 15- You have a right to love yourself. Often the betrayed have forgotten themselves as an individual. This is the optimum time to remind yourself that you are unique and lovable in your own right. That as much as you might love your spouse, you should love yourself enough to refuse any sort of mistreatment.
> 
> 
> 
> Have you shown it to him?
Click to expand...


No. But we are 7 years in and have already went over everything on this list. Even the verbal abuse. It's not abuse. He's angry and frustrated. He says I deserve it, and I do. I made him that way. I am sure my reactions and defensiveness can be abuse too. A person can take only so much before they snap back. I am ashamed of all of this, but I know you can't fix anything where there's only anger.


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## Blossom Leigh

I recommend the book "You Don't Have to Take it Anymore" since you guys are now in a mutually abusive situation. It is a way to break that cycle.


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## unsureone

Blossom Leigh said:


> I recommend the book "You Don't Have to Take it Anymore" since you guys are now in a mutually abusive situation. It is a way to break that cycle.


Thank you, i will look for it, even if I am the only one to read it.


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