# Husband watches porn



## Hawk249 (11 mo ago)

We’ve been together for 12 years. Married for 11. We had a great sex life in the beginning and then life happened. We still had great sex just not frequent. This went on for a few years until last fall when we sat down and had a long discussion on how I didn’t feel like he had anything left for me when he got home. He stepped up his game and I stepped up the sex, way up. I think we have maybe went a total of 5 nights without since October. We have really been exploring and trying new things. I asked him when I stepped it up to not watch porn. Well I’ve noticed these past few weeks he’s back to watching it. I ask about it and he tries to hide it. He does it once I’m asleep. I’ve told him he can wake me up and we can have sex during the night. Wake me up and tell me what you want from me. I’m game to try anything for him but yet he still feels the need to each porn. I’ve made myself sick this past weekend stressing about it. We finally had another talk last night and I told him again that it hurts my heart for him to watch it. Tell me what you want, tell me how I can fulfill your wants. Just want me and not porn. Let me be your desire. We’ve both lost almost 60 lbs this past year and he tells me how great I look but I don’t feel like it. When I know he watches porn it makes me feel worthless. I just needed to vent. I have no one else to discuss this with.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Porn is destructive and very often poison to a marriage. Like alcohol, some people can handle it in moderation and some cant. Like other addictions (and that's what your husband has), it can't be
Overcome by yourself. He needs to join a men's group that deals with this through church or HMO, or any other local group that deals with sex addiction and/or porn.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Some times people want a quick simple release without any concern for anyone else's pleasure or any effort. If it's not leaving you without It's probably not a big deal. What I'm saying is it doesn't mean he is unsatisfied with you at all. If he is watching porn multiple times a week and it is interfering with your sex together then it is clearly an issue. Is it only the porn that bothers you or that he is watching it and masturbating? 

Women make a mistake when they think their husbands compare them to the women in porn. I get why you would think that but I don't think guys are wishing their wives were porn stars. 

All that being said from the sound of it he shouldn't have a problem avoiding the porn.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

In your position I would just plainly say that if he wont stop the porn then you may have to seriously think about whether you want to remain married to him. I wouldn't put up with it, and sometimes men wont stop unless they think they may loose their family. He can stop if he chooses, he just chooses not to despite it upsetting you which is very selfish. 
Can you both agree to put porn blockers on his electrical devices? OK he shouldn't need that but it may help.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

happyhusband0005 said:


> Some times people want a quick simple release without any concern for anyone else's pleasure or any effort. If it's not leaving you without It's probably not a big deal. What I'm saying is it doesn't mean he is unsatisfied with you at all. If he is watching porn multiple times a week and it is interfering with your sex together then it is clearly an issue. Is it only the porn that bothers you or that he is watching it and masturbating?
> 
> Women make a mistake when they think their husbands compare them to the women in porn. I get why you would think that but I don't think guys are wishing their wives were porn stars.
> 
> All that being said from the sound of it he shouldn't have a problem avoiding the porn.


Trouble is it can and does lead to discontentment in their wives and their sex lives.


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## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

Porn is an addiction, which is why a lot of people quit and then go back to it.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

He likes porn because it's no work whatsoever for him. In porn all the men do is watch the women's service them for the most part, and all the women have huge fake boobs. 

One other reason to object is because he will bring those expectations to you to do things that only a paid or enslaved porn actress would do, things that are not pleasant for you. 

He's a fool for not realizing how generous you're being. And he's supporting an industry that's sex trafficks women like slaves.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

There are a number of people here that have strong moral and religious convictions against porn believe that it is sinful and always wrong and always bad and destructive. 

I do not believe that and do have have any moral or theological convictions against it, nor do I believe that it is universally problematic. 

I do believe it often is a contributing factor to marital sexual problems, especially if one is getting his (and sometimes her) needs met through porn while allowing their partner's wants and needs to go unmet. 

I think if one person's needs are going unmet while the other spanks to porn, I see that as in the same catagory as hooking up with another person. He might as well be banging another chick if you are going without. And if that is the case, I would advise taking the same stance as if he were getting down with another woman because in practical terms, it's pretty much the same end-result for you. 

However, you have not indicated that you are being denied or feeling frustrated or unsatisfied while he is spanking to porn currently. 

I do think this matters and is a key point. Let me explain -

I think we all have agency for our own bodies and our own sexualities. A marriage/relationship is a connection of our two bodies and sexualities but yet we are all still individuals with free agency over our own body and sexuality. 

If your wants and needs are being met, do you really have the right to tell him what to do with his own penis on his own time????

Do YOU ever masturbate? I'm going to assume the answer is yes even if you feel the need to deny it publicly. If his needs are being met and you avail yourself to him, does he have the right to tell you not to rub one out if you feel like taking a little extra time in the shower?????

You have the right to ask for his attention and for him to make good faith effort to meet your needs and to give you the love and attention you desire. But if he is meeting those needs and always avails himself to you, do you have the right to tell him what he can't do with his own genitalia on his own time after your needs have been taken care of???


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

DownByTheRiver said:


> and all the women have huge fake boobs.


Oh no, there is an entire genre of tiny tit porn. It's a real thing LOL


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> Trouble is it can and does lead to discontentment in their wives and their sex lives.


That is true and if it is causing a problem, then it is a problem. 

But is the problem that she is actually being denied and not getting her needs met, or does she simply not like that he is looking at some other gal's boobies? 

There's a difference.


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## Hawk249 (11 mo ago)

happyhusband0005 said:


> Some times people want a quick simple release without any concern for anyone else's pleasure or any effort. If it's not leaving you without It's probably not a big deal. What I'm saying is it doesn't mean he is unsatisfied with you at all. If he is watching porn multiple times a week and it is interfering with your sex together then it is clearly an issue. Is it only the porn that bothers you or that he is watching it and masturbating?
> 
> Women make a mistake when they think their husbands compare them to the women in porn. I get why you would think that but I don't think guys are wishing their wives were porn stars.
> 
> All that being said from the sound of it he shouldn't have a problem avoiding the porn.



I’m not going without but I can tell he’s not fully erect on days he’s watched. No the masturbating part doesn’t really bother me. It’s the fact that he wants to look at someone else vagina when mine right here ready to go.


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## Hawk249 (11 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> That is true and if it is causing a problem, then it is a problem.
> 
> But is the problem that she is actually being denied and not getting her needs met, or does she simply not like that he is looking at some other gal's boobies?
> 
> There's a difference.


If it was just boobs it would be different. He’s not in it for the boobs.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Hawk249 said:


> He does it once I’m asleep. I’ve told him he can wake me up and we can have sex during the night. Wake me up and tell me what you want from me.


I'm gonna break some of your individual statements down and address them from a male POV.

The thing about porn or masturbation in general is you don't have to wake anyone up or have them grumble and growl at you in the middle of the night even if they do ultimately consent to getting down with you. 

If you have a boner in the middle of the night, and you don't want deal with taking care of someone else and don't want to have to cuddle after wards, you can just take care of yourself and go back to sleep. After all, there will be more where that came from the next day. A healthy, virile man's spew production is constant and plentiful, you never really run out LOL

But to get back to a serious topic, porn and spanking are easy, no-effort and no fuss means of taking the edge off for a good night's sleep. 

It has absolutely nothing to do with the attractiveness or desirability of his mate or is any measure of his love or desire for her. 

It's something he's been doing since he was 12 and he didn't go blind and no hair on his palms.


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## Hawk249 (11 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> There are a number of people here that have strong moral and religious convictions against porn believe that it is sinful and always wrong and always bad and destructive.
> 
> I do not believe that and do have have any moral or theological convictions against it, nor do I believe that it is universally problematic.
> 
> ...


Yes I do have the right to tell him not to do it. I’m his wife and I do things as he ask of them. He could have the same respect. And no I don’t masturbate. I have a husband to turn to when I’m horny and when he’s not home I sext him and bounce on him when he gets home.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Hawk249 said:


> I’m not going without but I can tell he’s not fully erect on days he’s watched. No the masturbating part doesn’t really bother me. It’s the fact that he wants to look at someone else vagina when mine right here ready to go.


Ok so he's watching porn and masturbating during the day? When I read you first post I took it as a situation he's watching porn and masturbating after you go to bed. It sounds then like it is interfering so that makes it a problem in my book.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

To me he seems crazy. If my wife was like hey if you ever feel horny just come to me and it’s on, that would be a dream come true.

I’d give up all kinds of things for that.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Hawk249 said:


> If it was just boobs it would be different. He’s not in it for the boobs.


What's he in it for then?


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Hawk249 said:


> Yes I do have the right to tell him not to do it. I’m his wife and I do things as he ask of them. He could have the same respect. And no I don’t masturbate. I have a husband to turn to when I’m horny and when he’s not home I sext him and bounce on him when he gets home.


You have every right to expect him to experience you and only you.

you are not being stingy and offering him all the sex he could want in ways he wants them.

I believe in marital fidelity and I don’t believe watching porn has its place.

he doesn’t need to masturbate but if he didneed to that can be done without porn.

I too like Diana wouldlet him know this is a boundary. Me or the porn.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Hawk249 said:


> We’ve both lost almost 60 lbs this past year and he tells me how great I look but I don’t feel like it. When I know he watches porn it makes me feel worthless.


This is where women usually miss the mark on porn. 

I can just about guarentee you he is not watching porn because he is dissatisfied with your body and is watching porn so he can enjoy perfect bodies. I guarentee it. If he's getting down with you several times a week, he loves your body. 

And this whole narative about porn being nothing but fake boobs and perfect bodies is 100% pure myth and fallacy. 

Yes there are fake boobs and rock hard bodies in porn. There are also 300lb 65 year olds. go to a porn site and type in 70 year old 300 lb, toothless, wart-covered bearded woman and there will probably be page after page of them. 

Sometimes people watch porn that is 180 degree different than what they like in bed in real life. My wife is a beautiful, skinny mini and I love her body. But some of my favorite porn chicks are quite ripe and full figured if not actually somewhat over weight. It's not that I'm into fat chicks,,,, it's that it's something DIFFERENT.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Hawk249 said:


> Yes I do have the right to tell him not to do it. I’m his wife and I do things as he ask of them. He could have the same respect. And no I don’t masturbate. I have a husband to turn to when I’m horny and when he’s not home I sext him and bounce on him when he gets home.


You have the right to ask him to not look at porn. 

But at the end of the day, it's his body, his time and his sexuality. 

You also have the right to dissolve the marriage if he isn't doing what you tell him to do with his winkie. 

But you do need to ask yourself if what he is doing on his own time with his own body when you are asleep is making YOUR life so bad that you are better off without him than with him. 

So it does come back to whether your needs in a relationship are being met or not. If one of your needs is that you need 100% of his sexual attentions and that his eyes can never fall upon another electronic image of a nekkid woman and his hand can never touch his own penis, then there's your answer. 

It's your right to ask for that and your right to dissolve the marriage if he is unable or unwilling to comply with that. 

But it's a question you have to answer for yourself on what you can and what you can not live with and what you will be better off with.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Hawk249 said:


> I’m not going without but I can tell he’s not fully erect on days he’s watched. No the masturbating part doesn’t really bother me. It’s the fact that he wants to look at someone else vagina when mine right here ready to go.


Is he or is he not availing himself to you sexually and putting for due diligence in meeting your needs for love and affection and satisfying you sexually? 

Let me rephrase a bit for context - if you did not know that he was sneaking in a wank, would you be a generally happy and satisfied woman? 

Would you be on a marriage forum complaining about your sex life if you did not know that he was spanking to porn at times?


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Hawk249 said:


> We’ve been together for 12 years. Married for 11. We had a great sex life in the beginning and then life happened. We still had great sex just not frequent. This went on for a few years until last fall when we sat down and had a long discussion on how I didn’t feel like he had anything left for me when he got home. He stepped up his game and I stepped up the sex, way up. I think we have maybe went a total of 5 nights without since October. We have really been exploring and trying new things. I asked him when I stepped it up to not watch porn. Well I’ve noticed these past few weeks he’s back to watching it. I ask about it and he tries to hide it. He does it once I’m asleep. I’ve told him he can wake me up and we can have sex during the night. Wake me up and tell me what you want from me. I’m game to try anything for him but yet he still feels the need to each porn. I’ve made myself sick this past weekend stressing about it. We finally had another talk last night and I told him again that it hurts my heart for him to watch it. Tell me what you want, tell me how I can fulfill your wants. Just want me and not porn. Let me be your desire. We’ve both lost almost 60 lbs this past year and he tells me how great I look but I don’t feel like it. When I know he watches porn it makes me feel worthless. I just needed to vent. I have no one else to discuss this with.


Rereading you’ve never said if he understands and agrees to stop the porn only that he hides it.

marital boundaries are those either agreed upon or dealbreakers.

if he hasn’t agreed then for me it would be a dealbreaker but maybe not for you. If he did agree to stop watching then he’s being deceitful.

either way you two together have to set these boundaries. Except for one sided dealbreakers. My point is none of us can tell you if it’s ok or not. The poster before me engaged in swinging for 10 years that was what him and his wife agreed to it worked for them. I want all my husbands sexual energy I would not agree to porn. And the argument that you are satisfied is a straw man because emotionally you aren’t satisfied and that’s as important as physical. If it wasn’t youcouldmake the argument that your husband is allowed a girlfriend as long as you are sexually satisfied.

So what has your husbands reaction to your request to abstain from porn been?

@CatholicDad


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> That is true and if it is causing a problem, then it is a problem.
> 
> But is the problem that she is actually being denied and not getting her needs met, or does she simply not like that he is looking at some other gal's boobies?
> 
> There's a difference.


Maybe both.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> Oh no, there is an entire genre of tiny tit porn. It's a real thing LOL


For pedophiles


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I am going to come back down to earth and say that I do believe porn is a big problem for a lot of people and a lot of relationships. 

There is an active thread right now where last night I wrote a very long post urging the OP to put the porn away and keep his hands off himself and let the tank fill and the pressure build. I have recommended that quite a few times in sexless marriage situations. 

This is not a sexless marriage situation. And other than the OP simply not wanting her H to see other women's jay-jay, she hasn't stated a tangible reason that him rubbing one out now and then is a problem. 

Unless she comes back and says that she is somehow being left out in the cold or is not getting her needs met, she is coming off like a nag and a control freak that simply wants him to keep it in his drawers when she is asleep because she doesn't like the thought of it. 

I don't like my wife spending hours of the day watching TV shows where people are selling other people houses and hours every evening watching shows where people sign infront of judges and other shows where a bunch of dudes in a big are simping themselves out for some chick that is banging all these dudes in the big house. I think it's dumb and a waste of time and electricity.

But if it's not really hurting me or impacting me in any way, do I have the right to tell her to knock it off?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

It is hurting her. It's causing destruction in her marriage.


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## Hawk249 (11 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> Sister you can't handle ALL of your husband's energy! (spoken my best Jack Nicholson voice)
> 
> A healthy, virile, vigorous man's sexual energy is boundless and all consuming and permeates every aspect of his life.
> 
> ...


How does he know we can’t handle it if he doesn’t try? I feel you hear me like he does. I want all the sex. I want him to do to me the things he wants from these women. I also understand where you’re coming from on let him just do him. If I hadn’t stepped it up to make sure he’s satisfied every day, if not more than once a day then I’d let him do him but I’m making the effort and he should too.


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## Hawk249 (11 mo ago)

Anastasia6 said:


> Rereading you’ve never said if he understands and agrees to stop the porn only that he hides it.
> 
> marital boundaries are those either agreed upon or dealbreakers.
> 
> ...


He says he’ll stop. He says it’s just mind pollution. I feel it’s more. We’re going to talk more when he gets home.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Hawk249 said:


> He says he’ll stop. He says it’s just mind pollution. I feel it’s more. We’re going to talk more when he gets home.


It is mind pollution. But try not to make the conversation acrimonious.


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## Hawk249 (11 mo ago)

Anastasia6 said:


> It is mind pollution. But try not to make the conversation acrimonious.


I’m trying not to. It’s actually very hard for me to even bring the conversation up to him because I feel like it’s stupid to be upset about it. I know he still wants me but I feel like it’s not enough when he needs to still watch hours after we’ve had sex.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Try to find out the why. And express your fears and feelings. 

the why most likely is the mind pollution. It’s like smoking. People know they shouldn’t but it so easy.

If it is a dealbreaker then I’d let him know. If not then don’t say words you don’t mean. The deceitfulness would also be hard for me to take.

you also mentioned low energy for you and staying up at night. Are you sure he isn’t texting or cam girling? If he low energy why is he staying up at night?


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## Hawk249 (11 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> I am going to come back down to earth and say that I do believe porn is a big problem for a lot of people and a lot of relationships.
> 
> There is an active thread right now where last night I wrote a very long post urging the OP to put the porn away and keep his hands off himself and let the tank fill and the pressure build. I have recommended that quite a few times in sexless marriage situations.
> 
> ...


Than I’m being a nag. I like the thought of my husband getting off for me and me only. Apparently that’s too much to ask of a man.


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## Hawk249 (11 mo ago)

Anastasia6 said:


> Try to find out the why. And express your fears and feelings.
> 
> the why most likely is the mind pollution. It’s like smoking. People know they shouldn’t but it so easy.
> 
> ...


That is a huge fear of mine.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Hawk249 said:


> That is a huge fear of mine.


What’s a fear? Mind pollution or and emotional or physical affair? Is it a fear or do you have your suspicions?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Hawk249 said:


> I’m trying not to. It’s actually very hard for me to even bring the conversation up to him because I feel like it’s stupid to be upset about it. I know he still wants me but I feel like it’s not enough when he needs to still watch hours after we’ve had sex.


No it's not stupid to be upset by it. He is being mentally unfaithful. Loads of women wouldn't accept being treated that way, and why should they. 

The thing is he doesn't need to do it, he chooses to. Despite the fact that he knows you are upset.


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## Hawk249 (11 mo ago)

Anastasia6 said:


> What’s a fear? Mind pollution or and emotional or physical affair? Is it a fear or do you have your suspicions?


A fear that he would be texting someone else or girl cam. That the reg porn would go further and he’d physically cheat.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> I am going to come back down to earth and say that I do believe porn is a big problem for a lot of people and a lot of relationships.
> 
> There is an active thread right now where last night I wrote a very long post urging the OP to put the porn away and keep his hands off himself and let the tank fill and the pressure build. I have recommended that quite a few times in sexless marriage situations.
> 
> ...


But it is hurting her and impacting her.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Hawk249 said:


> A fear that he would be texting someone else or girl cam. That the reg porn would go further and he’d physically cheat.


He is already cheating in a way..


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Both texting and cam girls would be easy to know somewhat. 

as his wife you do have access to his phone. And you often have to pay for cam girls. I mean there is always things like Snapchat but I’d wonder why a grown ass man has SnapCat.

I only asked a question. I don’t know the answer or specifically suspect your husband. I just wonder about the dichotomy.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

It gives many men unrealistic expectations across the board. 
If it's time consuming and they're obsessed with hit, it is a destructive addiction. If they're willing to erode their relationship/marriage or any other part of life with it, it's unhealthy destructive addiction.
It seems to foster entitlement of sexual extremes as well as hot body extremes.
It often makes the woman realize how little the man cares about actual emotions and that his priority has been or is now just meaningless sex. So it causes resentment and erosion of relationships. 

Your man had a willing partner here, ready to keep up with him -- and that is fairly rare if you read all the complaints on here about all the men who want sex more often than women (which is the norm but always with exceptions). He's about to crap on that and ruin it, so I hope you can talk sense to him.


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## Hawk249 (11 mo ago)

Anastasia6 said:


> Both texting and cam girls would be easy to know somewhat.
> 
> as his wife you do have access to his phone. And you often have to pay for cam girls. I mean there is always things like Snapchat but I’d wonder why a grown ass man has SnapCat.
> 
> I only asked a question. I don’t know the answer or specifically suspect your husband. I just wonder about the dichotomy.


I know he hasn’t spent any money on anything. he doesn’t do Snapchat and things like that. He barely gets on FB. Lol


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Hawk249 said:


> I know he hasn’t spent any money on anything. he doesn’t do Snapchat and things like that. He barely gets on FB. Lol


So if he lacks energy why stay up late?


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## Hawk249 (11 mo ago)

Thank you all for your replies btw!! It really helps.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Also that’s good there are still computer communication that could happen but sounds like most women it’s a fear but not an active threat.


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## Hawk249 (11 mo ago)

Anastasia6 said:


> So if he lacks energy why stay up late?


About 2 years ago he had an accident and lost a finger. The whole process of it really messed him up. Since then it’s been hard to get him to sleep before midnight or sometimes at all. He’s slowly gotten better and will occasionally go to sleep when I do. Usually 10-11. He’s actually on his last week of work for a month or more as we are doing renovations around our properties. I’m hoping him being home helps him relax and maybe we can work on things, porn included.


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## jk1223 (11 mo ago)

The problem is not the porn itself but the fact that he feels the need or want to hide it from you. Quite frankly, I think some porn is fine in a healthy, consenting, sexual relationship. Sometimes you just want the release without having to worry about someone else. I think it would be unfair to ask him to never masturbate. Would you want someone to do that to you? When it replaces you, that's a problem. When you ask him to back off it because it interferes with your relations and refuses or lies about it and starts sneaking around, there are bigger forces at play. Coming from someone whose husband has a borderline obsessive personality and is currently navigating how to deal with the aftermath of excessive porn, stop the secrecy now. It will only get worse. I would also suggest spending some time on what you think is your "red line" and be ready to stick to it. Do not make the mistake of following him down a road that goes against your instincts. That road only goes to one place.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Sorry sister. You being cool with porn probably isn’t helping. I wonder how he’d feel if the tables were turned and you ignored his needs?

Porn is kind of like the occult… it’s always wrong, always leads to unnatural kinks/fetishes, and if left unchecked destroys marriage. Have you heard about the Father of Porn’s (Hugh Hefner) depravity?


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## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

What happened to oldshirt?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

@Hawk249, did you tell him the porn makes you feel like you’re not attractive to him?


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## Hawk249 (11 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> @Hawk249, did you tell him the porn makes you feel like you’re not attractive to him?


I did. He says that’s not the case that it’s just mind pollution. I said well let me pollute you’re mind but he didn’t really respond to that. He said he won’t mess with it anymore. This was last night.


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## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

In my opinion, I think a lot of people need to understand that just because you have a great sex life, that doesn't mean you are going to stop masturbating.

There are times when a person just wants to please his or herself and knows just what they want for a quick release. It doesn't mean that your spouse isn't good enough. Its just human nature. I even believe masturbating together is fun and exciting. 

As far as porn goes, that varies from couple to couple and that is ok. I can see how it can become addictive. But for us, it helps. We sometimes have the house alone and have a porn on the bedroom tv while going at it. I have on occasion walked in on her watching while riding her MotorBunny. But neither of us are offended by either watching. And neither of us have any addiction. If we were told no porn for a year.....ok lol


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Hawk249 said:


> I did. He says that’s not the case that it’s just mind pollution. I said well let me pollute you’re mind but he didn’t really respond to that. He said he won’t mess with it anymore. This was last night.


I’m so sorry. That’s a really unkind answer. ❤ It also kind of says a lot about his concern for your feelings.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

I think she wants her to be his 'one and only'. As in 'one and only' not just in physical presence, but in heart, mind
and yes, even in imagination. Is that weird? By gosh, I think thats the old traditional definition of marriage!

I do get it though on both sides. As a guy thats been there, its a struggle. But a struggle worth striving for.


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## Hawk249 (11 mo ago)

jorgegene said:


> I think she wants her to be his 'one and only'. As in 'one and only' not just in physical presence, but in heart, mind
> and yes, even in imagination. Is that weird? By gosh, I think thats the old traditional definition of marriage!
> 
> I do get it though on both sides. As a guy thats been there, its a struggle. But a struggle worth striving for.


This. Exactly this!


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

thunderchad said:


> What happened to oldshirt?


better asked in the dedicated banned member thread than derailing here. Plus no one here probably knows


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## oldssoul (11 mo ago)

Long time lurker first time poster. It's odd how divisive porn is. I assume it's a moral thing. Considering how much free content is out there I can't see it being a financial thing (gambling, strip clubs, cam girls etc). If he was honestly working late hours, as in you could check and see him working, would it still be an issue? If it were video games, sports, or a hobby (fly fishing for example), would you still be upset?

Or is it that it involves other women? Have you asked him what porn he's into? Have you watched it with him? Is it content you're not comfortable trying (bondage and anal are fairly popular in part because for some it's simply not an option).

I know others would be horrified to read this but maybe it's a combination of self confidence and uncomfortableness about the morality of porn, not necessarily the content. Often if it's a new hobby (fishing for example) the spouse either follows to support or stays back and chalks it up to alone time (he fishes, I do a spa day). But for some reason the mention of porn sends people over the edge. You say what kind and "I don't know" is a response. You ask if they've watched it with their partner and there's further pushback. I've never seen the same reactions about sports (OMG he's fishing, OMG he's playing basketball)... but toss in that P word and it's taboo and the sky is falling.

I used to know a phenomenal carpenter. Real master. Got into wood working to overcome porn. Ended up divorced because the wife felt he spent too much time in the garage wood shop... so for him it wasn't the content it was the time spent..


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Yeah, traditional marriage!! Nowadays people think you’re from outer space if you suggest marriage should be free of porn.


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## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

oldssoul said:


> I assume it's a moral thing. Considering how much free content is out there I can't see it being a financial thing (gambling, strip clubs, cam girls etc). If he was honestly working late hours, as in you could check and see him working, would it still be an issue? If it were video games, sports, or a hobby (fly fishing for example), would you still be upset?


Don't get me wrong, I loved porn...who doesn't? I just didn't like what it does to your brain and relationships.









The Effects Of Porn On Relationships And The Brain


The porn industry generates over $97 billion in worldwide revenue each year, and porn sites receive more traffic than Amazon, Twitter, and Netflix…




www.eviemagazine.com


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## oldssoul (11 mo ago)

thunderchad said:


> Don't get me wrong, I loved porn...who doesn't? I just didn't like what it does to your brain and relationships.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Anything done in excess can destroy your health, finances, relationships... possibly all 3. If he's not spending money then the question is time or health?

What if the porn is replaced with a partner who wants the same amount of attention but doesn't want to try that type of activity? How is that any different from a wife insisting she be on hunting or fishing trips but hates the sport? Is it quality time as a couple if resentment is building while time is spent together?

Like I alluded to not a popular opinion but I find it humorous how quickly porn is condemned but fishing is fine...


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## oldssoul (11 mo ago)

CatholicDad said:


> Yeah, traditional marriage!! Nowadays people think you’re from outer space if you suggest marriage should be free of porn.


Society is littered with examples of secret trysts, strip clubs, brothels, gambling, drugs...

If the worst thing is the partner unloading while I'm asleep but it's not a live person on the other end and the bank account is safe... Honestly there's way worse things in the most stable marriages. I know couples from the 50's... never looked at porn just drank like a fish, blew money away on poker nights, and hit the strip club once a month... umm I'd rather he skipped all of that an stayed home with free porn


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

thunderchad said:


> Don't get me wrong, I loved porn...who doesn't? I just didn't like what it does to your brain and relationships.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes most defenders of porn ignore any side effects, relationship issues, intimacy problems. They feel there’s no harm just like many smokers. 
I wonder if in 50 to 100 years porn will be less acceptable like cigarettes are now.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

jk1223 said:


> The problem is not the porn itself but the fact that he feels the need or want to hide it from you. Quite frankly, I think some porn is fine in a healthy, consenting, sexual relationship. Sometimes you just want the release without having to worry about someone else. I think it would be unfair to ask him to never masturbate. Would you want someone to do that to you? When it replaces you, that's a problem. When you ask him to back off it because it interferes with your relations and refuses or lies about it and starts sneaking around, there are bigger forces at play. Coming from someone whose husband has a borderline obsessive personality and is currently navigating how to deal with the aftermath of excessive porn, stop the secrecy now. It will only get worse. I would also suggest spending some time on what you think is your "red line" and be ready to stick to it. Do not make the mistake of following him down a road that goes against your instincts. That road only goes to one place.


You can masturbate without using porn.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldssoul said:


> Society is littered with examples of secret trysts, strip clubs, brothels, gambling, drugs...
> 
> If the worst thing is the partner unloading while I'm asleep but it's not a live person on the other end and the bank account is safe... Honestly there's way worse things in the most stable marriages. I know couples from the 50's... never looked at porn just drank like a fish, blew money away on poker nights, and hit the strip club once a month... umm I'd rather he skipped all of that an stayed home with free porn


They are also a lot of people who don't go to strip clubs or play poker but still stay away from porn.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

CatholicDad said:


> Yeah, traditional marriage!! Nowadays people think you’re from outer space if you suggest marriage should be free of porn.


It's really sad isn't it. Thankfully they are still a lot of porn free marriage's.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldssoul said:


> Anything done in excess can destroy your health, finances, relationships... possibly all 3. If he's not spending money then the question is time or health?
> 
> What if the porn is replaced with a partner who wants the same amount of attention but doesn't want to try that type of activity? How is that any different from a wife insisting she be on hunting or fishing trips but hates the sport? Is it quality time as a couple if resentment is building while time is spent together?
> 
> Like I alluded to not a popular opinion but I find it humorous how quickly porn is condemned but fishing is fine...


Does fishing damage the mind like porn does?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> Does fishing damage the mind like porn does?


When I started fishing I was happy to catch stocked freshwater trout. Eventually I got bored of them and wanted bigger exotic saltwater species.

One day I caught a sculpin and it had poisonous spines on it.

I was scared straight that day!


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

oldssoul said:


> Society is littered with examples of secret trysts, strip clubs, brothels, gambling, drugs...
> 
> If the worst thing is the partner unloading while I'm asleep but it's not a live person on the other end and the bank account is safe... Honestly there's way worse things in the most stable marriages. I know couples from the 50's... never looked at porn just drank like a fish, blew money away on poker nights, and hit the strip club once a month... umm I'd rather he skipped all of that an stayed home with free porn


Welcome brother and “long time lurker”. You chose an interesting time to jump in… in defense of porn where a wife is hurting about porn?

It’s is a tired argument you’re bringing “the world sucks so why not use porn?”. 😔 maybe as a courtesy to @Hawk249 we should go debate this somewhere else. 😔

Got anything better for hawk than “get over it”?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> But if it's not really hurting me or impacting me in any way, do I have the right to tell her to knock it off?


That's the thing, though, right? It IS hurting her. When you love someone, you don't want to hurt them. You'll work with them to come up with a compromise where everyone gets what they need, or at least most of what they need, without the other being hurt. She told him it hurt her feelings, he dismissed her and ignored her attempt to seduce him. This isn't about some religious rule or some hang-up; it's not even really about porn, for that matter. He knows something he's doing is hurting her and doesn't seem to care.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> Yes most defenders of porn ignore any side effects, relationship issues, intimacy problems. They feel there’s no harm just like many smokers.
> I wonder if in 50 to 100 years porn will be less acceptable like cigarettes are now.


Pretty sure there's been porn as long as there have been prostitutes. Very little chance we're getting rid of any of it.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Something a little empathy can go a long way.

Why don't you try some big **** porn and tell him it's just mind pollution? If he's cool with that then maybe it really doesn't mean anything tp him.

Having said that, if my guy was getting off to porn it would make him far less desirable in eyes and I suspect many women feel like me. One who seeks to justify porm use can certainly dig their heels in and justify it but at the end of the day you just can't have everything.

If you have a woman who's good with it then fine. If you have a woman who's not good with it you can have her full respect or porn but not both

And I certainly wouldn't chase and beg...he'd just have less sex with me because I will have less interest.

My bf and i are coming off 4 days in a row and I've enjoyed every minute. That wouldn't be happening if he was a big porn user.


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## oldssoul (11 mo ago)

CatholicDad said:


> Welcome brother and “long time lurker”. You chose an interesting time to jump in… in defense of porn where a wife is hurting about porn?
> 
> It’s is a tired argument you’re bringing “the world sucks so why not use porn?”. 😔 maybe as a courtesy to @Hawk249 we should go debate this somewhere else. 😔
> 
> Got anything better for hawk than “get over it”?


I actually debated about joining but the taboo nature of the conversation proved irresistible. I find it odd that we as a society went from drinking to smoking to drugs to now porn as the devil incarnate. And as I said anything in excess is dangerous. But to put a much finer point on it has the OP openly discussed which categorie(s) of porn her husband watches and if she's either interested in said activities or willing to watch with? We don't need to know but I think that's her starting point.

Why is porn held in this inaccessible shadow? If the post was to the men's club and said "husband spends too much time fishing" how many would ask freshwater, salt water, fly, river, lake etc? Honestly how many categories of fishing are there and would the wife even know? How many more would question why the wife doesn't join, or doesn't treat herself to an equally time consuming activity? How many would question her distain for his hobby (and possibly point out her lack of knowledge due to not asking)? But mention porn and the only advice is either tell them to abstain or ignore it and let them continue? They should discuss this, as a couple, and compromise, as a couple.

To highlight my comment I watched a marriage unravel over an Alaska birthday fishing trip. Literally a trip of a lifetime. Between the expense, the resentment over it, and the insistence she go along (per him she complained the whole time and due to her attending the trip cost them double). She could have rented a day boat on the lake, saved a fortune, and the marriage... I've also seen marriages unravel over gambling, over restoring old cars, over fishing and hunting, drugs, drinking, video games... people don't have the tolerance exhibited by past generations. They're not as willing to address it or look the other way.

So is it really the porn or the time spent without the spouse?


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## oldssoul (11 mo ago)

lifeistooshort said:


> If you have a woman who's not good with it you can have her full respect or


 Spoken like a true spouse who is tired of fishing, or hunting, or restoring old cars, or poker night, or quite literally anything that takes time away as a couple.

Honestly how many have used those exact words in their ultimatum and it had NOTHING to do with porn?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

oldssoul said:


> Spoken like a true spouse who is tired of fishing, or hunting, or restoring old cars, or poker night, or quite literally anything that takes time away as a couple.
> 
> Honestly how many have used those exact words in their ultimatum and it had NOTHING to do with porn?


That was a deflection tactic and we both know it.

Intimacy has nothing to do with hunting or fishing.

Nobody is stopping you from using porn....that is up to you. I'm just sharing what your wife probably thinks. Ignore it if you want.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Hawk249 said:


> How does he know we can’t handle it if he doesn’t try? I feel you hear me like he does. I want all the sex. I want him to do to me the things he wants from these women. I also understand where you’re coming from on let him just do him. If I hadn’t stepped it up to make sure he’s satisfied every day, if not more than once a day then I’d let him do him but I’m making the effort and he should too.


God bless you for being down to take of business by your own hand (no pun intended) I may sound like a jerk but I'm actually on your side here.

If you were with me with that attitude and desire, I'd probably never touch porn or myself again. Many men here would kill or die to be with a woman like you so my hat is off to you for being game and a good sport. 

But you can't ask him to do all the things with you that he sees in porn because many of those things don't really exist in real life. And I know you'll never truly believe it in your heart but it truly is not about you at all. It's like women watching the The Bachelor and The Bachelorette, it's a woman thing and it has nothing to do with her own partner. The only difference with porn is they take their clothes off. 

Now, he has a responsibility in this too in that he also needs to decide if the circus midgets are worth it to him to upset you and make you uncomfortable and turn you off. I'm going to assume the answer to that is no. 

But even if it is yes, that is snafu in his heart and is on him and still nothing to do with you. 

Here is the catch though and here are a couple things you need to think about. One is who is it that tells boys not to touch their winkies and gets upset and mad at them if they do???? Answer = their uptight, rigid, religiously conservative mother. 

So you need to ask yourself if you want to be like his mother and be the Winkie Police to make sure he's not touching himself?

The other question is do you think it is realistic that he will live an 80 year old life expectancy and never look at some girl's boobies or touch himself ever again??? Is that an even reasonable thing to ask anyone?? Is it??

I hope you understand that no, that is not realistic or reasonable to ask someone to go another 40 or 50 years and NEVER touch himself again. 

So somewhere between having the respect and compassion to not make you unreasonably uncomfortable and realizing that 50 years of never seeing another woman's boobies and never touching himself is probably unrealistic, there is room for some communication, mutual understanding and respect and compromise.


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## oldssoul (11 mo ago)

lifeistooshort said:


> That was a deflection tactic and we both know it.
> 
> Intimacy has nothing to do with hunting or fishing.
> 
> Nobody is stopping you from using porn....that is up to you. I'm just sharing what your wife probably thinks. Ignore it if you want.


 As uncomfortable and unpopular as this will sound it's most certainly not deflection, even if that were a convenient excuse. Fishing or me, video games or me, hunting or me, sports or me... I've literally heard it all from various family, friends, stand up comics, support groups etc.

NOW if it DIRECTLY impacts health or intimacy then the conversation changes. Drugs or me, gambling or me, drinking or me... and so on. Yes it's porn. Some people are uncomfortable even mentioning it. So do you fight it? Do you explore what your partner is into and try to replace it? Do you watch your own type even if it disgusts you in some childish attempt to spark a fight? Most people on here seem comfortable with avoidance or ultimatum and really classify any other answer as deflection.

If you've read what I've previously written you'll see where I encourage the spouse to gather as much information as possible. Define both sides, then try to find a compromise.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

TexasMom1216 said:


> That's the thing, though, right? It IS hurting her. When you love someone, you don't want to hurt them. You'll work with them to come up with a compromise where everyone gets what they need, or at least most of what they need, without the other being hurt. She told him it hurt her feelings, he dismissed her and ignored her attempt to seduce him. This isn't about some religious rule or some hang-up; it's not even really about porn, for that matter. He knows something he's doing is hurting her and doesn't seem to care.


A couple things here. I missed where she tried to seduce him and he ignored her. Can you please quote where she said that because I haven't seen anything where she has said he has rejected her or not availed himself to her. 

And I do agree with you on the compromise and I have stated that. 

But as part of the compromise she needs to do some self-reflection and determine if him rubbing one out while she is asleep in the middle of the night is actually "hurting" her or if she is just wanting to control him and keep him inline so she doesn't feel any insecurity???

Let me flip this around, let's say I find out my wife has some great big sex toy the size of a lumberjacks forearm and fist that cranks up to 5,000 RPMs and has all sorts protruberences and spinny things and I come on here and say that it is making me feel inadequate and insecure and I asked her not to use it but then I find out that she sneaks off and uses it now and then in the middle of the night and I am upset and I am basically demanding that she never use it again and that it is my right to expect her to never use it or touch her again and that I am here and willing to meet her needs. 

You ladies here would disembowel me here for trying to "control "her her and "oppress" her and stifle her sexuality etc etc. There would be demonstrations and picketing outside my house and parades for women's privacy and sexual expression up and down my street. 

I would be accused of being insecure and impotence and of having a micro penis. I would be told that if I was getting any sex at all that I should shut up and count my blessings and get off her back. And with that, I would be told that as long as she was having sex with me, that what she does on her own time with her own body would be her business and not my concern. 

So why is this different? Why would I be accused of controlling and oppression if I were to speak out about a woman spanking but it's completely OK for her to try to control what he does with own genitalia on his own time???


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## moulinyx (May 30, 2019)

OP - you aren’t alone! Many wives here struggle with this same issue (myself included). It truly is an addiction and they feel like it’s normal since “everyone does it”. The difference here is that it is impacting your sex life. He needs to respect your boundaries especially since you’re a willing partner.


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## moulinyx (May 30, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> A couple things here. I missed where she tried to seduce him and he ignored her. Can you please quote where she said that because I haven't seen anything where she has said he has rejected her or not availed himself to her.
> 
> And I do agree with you on the compromise and I have stated that.
> 
> ...


Not trying to hop in and be combative but I feel like your example is missing the common link. Is the woman using her baby arm vibrator along with porn? That’s the issue here. OP has an issue with her husband choosing to beat Off to strangers/imagine screwing them rather than turning to her. Why can’t OP’s husband or the hypothetical woman in this example masterbate without the porn? 

I’m probably coming from the same scorned place but that’s exactly how I felt when I uncovered my husband had a raging porn addiction. Even watching it in the car on the way home. It’s a real issue for many men and it totally cuts out the willing wife. Plus giving us body image insecurities.


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## Hawk249 (11 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> A couple things here. I missed where she tried to seduce him and he ignored her. Can you please quote where she said that because I haven't seen anything where she has said he has rejected her or not availed himself to her.
> 
> And I do agree with you on the compromise and I have stated that.
> 
> ...


I think she meant my type of seducing would be be telling him to come to me when he needed it. Honestly I do feel like him watching is hurting me emotionally. I understand that you think it means nothing but do you understand where I feel like he shouldn’t be doing it hours after I just gave him the sex he asked for, how he likes it?? Tells me how amazing it was but once I’m asleep he stills has to watch something. I have literally told him wake me up. I don’t expect anything from it except for him to cum. Now I don’t lay there like a fish, I make sure he’s enjoying it. I haven’t told him no on sex in months!! Yes we’ve had maybe 5 days we haven’t had it but it was mutual and we both went to bed.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

moulinyx said:


> Not trying to hop in and be combative but I feel like your example is missing the common link. Is the woman using her baby arm vibrator along with porn? That’s the issue here. OP has an issue with her husband choosing to beat Off to strangers/imagine screwing them rather than turning to her. Why can’t OP’s husband or the hypothetical woman in this example masterbate without the porn?
> 
> I’m probably coming from the same scorned place but that’s exactly how I felt when I uncovered my husband had a raging porn addiction. Even watching it in the car on the way home. It’s a real issue for many men and it totally cuts out the willing wife. Plus giving us body image insecurities.


Remember just because someone post 20 times it doesn't make their view eveyone's view. 

You were right your husband had a problem and the OP is right that it's between her and her husband. She wants an exclusive sexual relationship. Her husband wants porn except he won't actually just say he does he'll agree not to use it and then use it anyway. So he too either has a problem or he's being deceitful which I view as another problem. 

OP, I too want an exclusive sexual relationship. Also no matter what people say there are men who do not use porn and would gladly give it up for 5 times a week sex or more. You've offered to have him wake you up. That's generous. I wonder if you stopped having sex with him if he'd care?


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## moulinyx (May 30, 2019)

Hawk249 said:


> I think she meant my type of seducing would be be telling him to come to me when he needed it. Honestly I do feel like him watching is hurting me emotionally. I understand that you think it means nothing but do you understand where I feel like he shouldn’t be doing it hours after I just gave him the sex he asked for, how he likes it?? Tells me how amazing it was but once I’m asleep he stills has to watch something. I have literally told him wake me up. I don’t expect anything from it except for him to cum. Now I don’t lay there like a fish, I make sure he’s enjoying it. I haven’t told him no on sex in months!! Yes we’ve had maybe 5 days we haven’t had it but it was mutual and we both went to bed.


His porn issues are probably bigger than you think. I’m sorry you’re struggling with intrusive thoughts due to his behavior - it’s exhausting and distracting to say the least. I honestly struggle with the same and do not have any suggestions. From my experience I’ve learned they will keep lying and come up with excuses when they can’t get it up or lose it in the middle of sex. It would be so much easier if we just didn’t care!


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## moulinyx (May 30, 2019)

Anastasia6 said:


> Remember just because someone post 20 times it doesn't make their view eveyone's view.
> 
> You were right your husband had a problem and the OP is right that it's between her and her husband. She wants an exclusive sexual relationship. Her husband wants porn except he won't actually just say he does he'll agree not to use it and then use it anyway. So he too either has a problem or he's being deceitful which I view as another problem.
> 
> OP, I too want an exclusive sexual relationship. Also no matter what people say there are men who do not use porn and would gladly give it up for 5 times a week sex or more. You've offered to have him wake you up. That's generous. I wonder if you stopped having sex with him if he'd care?


Totally agree here. The porn hurts but the lying is so much worse. It really kills the emotional intimacy when sexual desires are kept private when one partner is trying VERY hard to understand them and fulfill them.

I also agree there’s plenty of men who would jump at the chance to have a wife as interested in sex as you. This also boils down to compatibility - you are not compatible with someone who supplements your willingness with porn. You could probably throw a rock down the street and peg a man who would make that deal.


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## Hawk249 (11 mo ago)

Anastasia6 said:


> Remember just because someone post 20 times it doesn't make their view eveyone's view.
> 
> You were right your husband had a problem and the OP is right that it's between her and her husband. She wants an exclusive sexual relationship. Her husband wants porn except he won't actually just say he does he'll agree not to use it and then use it anyway. So he too either has a problem or he's being deceitful which I view as another problem.
> 
> OP, I too want an exclusive sexual relationship. Also no matter what people say there are men who do not use porn and would gladly give it up for 5 times a week sex or more. You've offered to have him wake you up. That's generous. I wonder if you stopped having sex with him if he'd care?


He would. It’s why we stepped up like we did. I was in a rut and didn’t care for it especially when he came home always tired and wasn’t being part of the family when he came home from work. He stepped up and has been amazing around the house when he gets home. In return I’ve been more into us having sex. Trying new things and not making him go without. Some will say I’m trying new things but not showing him I’m into it. That’s not the case. I’ve highly enjoyed the things we have tried!!


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Hawk249 said:


> I think she meant my type of seducing would be be telling him to come to me when he needed it. Honestly I do feel like him watching is hurting me emotionally. I understand that you think it means nothing but do you understand where I feel like he shouldn’t be doing it hours after I just gave him the sex he asked for, how he likes it?? Tells me how amazing it was but once I’m asleep he stills has to watch something. I have literally told him wake me up. I don’t expect anything from it except for him to cum. Now I don’t lay there like a fish, I make sure he’s enjoying it. I haven’t told him no on sex in months!! Yes we’ve had maybe 5 days we haven’t had it but it was mutual and we both went to bed.


Let me get real personal here and share something with you as guy that may or may not touch on some of what is getting under your skin and what you may not be understanding as a woman. Maybe it's kind of a difference between the girls and the boys. 

I have spanked after having great sex myself before. But it absolutely was NOT due to any inadequacy shortcoming of the person I was with or that the sex wasn't great........ quite the opposite in fact, it was due to the sex being GREAT. 

I know that sounds counterintuitive so let me explain. 

We all know that guys have a refractory period where he needs some time to recharge after an orgasm. So immediately after the sex, I may have been laying there exhausted and trying to catch my breath and just generally spent. I may even doze off after some cuddling and pillow talk etc..... all is great with the world. 

But then after awhile, some of the images and memories and general feelings from the encounter starts playing in my mind and then the next thing you know, someone is waking up in pants and the hormones start flowing again from the mental images and now I'm just kind of laying there tossing and turning, and like I said in an earlier message, I don't want to wake her up and bug her and have her grumbling and growling and saying "again?! 😠" so it's easier and more to just finish the night off and drain the last few drops out of the tank and call it a good night. 

So it may not be an insult to you or indictment against your skilz as a lover. It may be the exact opposite and is a testament to your sexiness and how turned on he really was. 

Some times great sex is like a clap of thunder, it's not just a singular boom but rather a lasting vibration that rumbles and reverberates for some time. Arousal can be like clanging a bell, it doesn't just make one clang but vibrates and hums for some time. 

A real good encounter of sex can have a guy aroused and stimulated for days of riding the waves.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> . I missed where she tried to seduce him and he ignored her. Can you please quote where she said that because I haven't seen anything where she has said he has rejected her or not availed himself to her.


Certainly, that makes a big difference. I asked her if she'd told him that him looking at porn hurt her feelings and made her feel bad about herself. Her response:


Hawk249 said:


> I did. He says that’s not the case that it’s just mind pollution.* I said well let me pollute you’re mind but he didn’t really respond to that. *He said he won’t mess with it anymore. This was last night.





oldshirt said:


> Let me flip this around, let's say I find out my wife has some great big sex toy the size of a lumberjacks forearm and fist that cranks up to 5,000 RPMs and has all sorts protruberences and spinny things and I come on here and say that it is making me feel inadequate and insecure and I asked her not to use it but then I find out that she sneaks off and uses it now and then in the middle of the night and I am upset and I am basically demanding that she never use it again and that it is my right to expect her to never use it or touch her again and that I am here and willing to meet her needs.
> 
> You ladies here would disembowel me here for trying to "control "her her and "oppress" her and stifle her sexuality etc etc. There would be demonstrations and picketing outside my house and parades for women's privacy and sexual expression up and down my street.


Well, no I wouldn't disembowel you. I wouldn't react that way at all. If she was doing something that hurt your feelings and you told her it hurt your feelings and she wouldn't stop, at that point it's not about "control" or even about a piledriving spiky sex machine that frankly sounds a little scary   , it's about her dismissing your feelings.

She told him that when he watches porn it makes her feel like she isn't attractive to him. It makes her feel bad about herself. His response was "it isn't that" and that was the end of the discussion. He completely dismissed her, and when she offered herself to him, he blew her off. At this point, it's not about the porn. He doesn't seem to care how she feels. Regardless of what it is or how you feel about porn, when your spouse doesn't care about your feelings, that is a problem. She's said in other posts that she wishes he would do to her the things he sees in the porn, and he isn't interested. I don't think the porn is the real issue.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldssoul said:


> As uncomfortable and unpopular as this will sound it's most certainly not deflection, even if that were a convenient excuse. Fishing or me, video games or me, hunting or me, sports or me... I've literally heard it all from various family, friends, stand up comics, support groups etc.
> 
> NOW if it DIRECTLY impacts health or intimacy then the conversation changes. Drugs or me, gambling or me, drinking or me... and so on. Yes it's porn. Some people are uncomfortable even mentioning it. So do you fight it? Do you explore what your partner is into and try to replace it? Do you watch your own type even if it disgusts you in some childish attempt to spark a fight? Most people on here seem comfortable with avoidance or ultimatum and really classify any other answer as deflection.
> 
> If you've read what I've previously written you'll see where I encourage the spouse to gather as much information as possible. Define both sides, then try to find a compromise.


Some people have enough self esteem to be able to say it's me or the porn. I wouldn't have any respect for a man who treated me that way. I certainly wouldn't treat my husband in such an unloving and disrespectful way.

Plus there is no compromise when it comes to something that damages minds, other people and marriages. 
There are things in marriage you can compromise on, but when your sexual focus is on other people and not your spouse something is wrong. When you aren't prepared to stop something even when your spouse is unhappy and hurt something is wrong.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Hawk249 said:


> We’ve been together for 12 years. Married for 11. We had a great sex life in the beginning and then life happened. We still had great sex just not frequent. This went on for a few years until last fall when we sat down and had a long discussion on how I didn’t feel like he had anything left for me when he got home. He stepped up his game and I stepped up the sex, way up. I think we have maybe went a total of 5 nights without since October. We have really been exploring and trying new things. I asked him when I stepped it up to not watch porn. Well I’ve noticed these past few weeks he’s back to watching it. I ask about it and he tries to hide it. He does it once I’m asleep. I’ve told him he can wake me up and we can have sex during the night. Wake me up and tell me what you want from me. I’m game to try anything for him but yet he still feels the need to each porn. I’ve made myself sick this past weekend stressing about it. We finally had another talk last night and I told him again that it hurts my heart for him to watch it. Tell me what you want, tell me how I can fulfill your wants. Just want me and not porn. Let me be your desire. We’ve both lost almost 60 lbs this past year and he tells me how great I look but I don’t feel like it. When I know he watches porn it makes me feel worthless. I just needed to vent. I have no one else to discuss this with.


You said the ultimate magic words that most men would kill to hear. 


I'm game to try anything for him. 



Wow. 


Because I can think of A LOT of things to try. I'm now greatly upset at your husband for passing up the opportunity of a life time. I personally have a very high drive. Higher than my wife's. I adore my wife's beauty and her very sexy body. But my advances are turned down most of the time. I supplement with porn, but I would give up that crap in a heartbeat if I was given the "I'll try anything" line or "wake me up". 

Your husband has a porn addiction problem and needs to address it. There is no reason he should be watching that over being with you. 

This crap is just crazy to me. I don't understand how situations like this are even possible. "I'm game to try anything for him". FFS. 

Grumble, grumble, grumble.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

A couple of decades of internet porn and now almost every man alive thinks it completely normal (even healthy) to run off and play with himself. Oh brother…

This doesn’t mean porn is good, but just that our men are bad.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

CatholicDad said:


> A couple of decades of internet porn and now almost every man alive thinks it completely normal (even healthy) to run off and play with himself. Oh brother…
> 
> This doesn’t mean porn is good, but just that our men are bad.


Our men are bad?

make sure to only speak for yourself instead of throwing the entire gender of men into the “bad” category.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

CatholicDad said:


> A couple of decades of internet porn and now almost every man alive thinks it completely normal (even healthy) to run off and play with himself. Oh brother…
> 
> This doesn’t mean porn is good, but just that our men are bad.


It's just so easy now, sadly not many men are strong enough to go against the flow. Men who don't watch it aren't easy to find, but they are out there.


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## redmarshall (11 mo ago)

This seems like a very interesting conversation. Just to add to a few factors:-

In general, guys are more easily aroused and have a higher sex drive than women. Women need more time to warm up to the idea so there is a physiological angle there. Guys on average think about sex two times more than women do according to the studies. I think this factor is more mental rather than anything else, and its because women and men are wired differently. There is a reason why men are addicted to porn by an overwhelming margin, and thats because they have a psychological propensity for it. 

I sympathize with the OP. What I would give for my wife to have that mentality, but is there a portion here about self love as well. Mastrubation is healthy and is a form of self love, and at least in my case its a form of freedom. During the time my wife was having children and her sex drive was limited, I used to handle myself the same way and my wife is not one for porn, and we've tried it, but she finds it repulsive. So we stopped watching it together. I do understand where you're coming from, that why can't he do it with you, I would give my arm and leg for my wife to think that way but alas in life, its more complicated than that. I would say try to ask him the deeper reason why he cant stay away from it, or if he can, try to get him to reduce the frequency. Find something that works for both. 

For me, I've been mastrubating since I was a teen, and Ive asked my wife, she told me had only mastrubated maybe 3 times since she hit puberty to the time we got married, so there is a huge gulf there, I don't know why that is. Now I started mastrubating without even knowing what it was, it just felt good. Only later did I understand what I was doing. So as far as I am concerned, sexuality is deeply rooted in our mentality maybe even in our genetics. So can one make that part of yourself go away? I am sure there are worse things out there.



Diana7 said:


> It's just so easy now, sadly not many men are strong enough to go against the flow. Men who don't watch it aren't easy to find, but they are out there.


I disagree with you here. Your definition of strong seems to be rooted in the ability to resist, are the rest of the men weak? I don't think so. Yes you have men out there who do not have this affinity to porn, but I'm guessing they have a host of other issues as well. Giving this one factor more importance than the rest is a case of missing the forest for the trees. The operable thing is that 'she' is hurt by this. And she has a right to be hurt, especially when she's being available, I think its worthy to talk to her husband about why this is, because even after repeated conversations with her and her being open and available to him(above and beyond I might add), there has to be something deep rooted to it. Like say, if my wife told me to stop mastrubating, I would probably ask her to understand that I can try, but Ive been doing it for the last 20 years or so with increasing or decreasing frequency, and it would be difficult and almost infeasible.

To the OP, please do not be insecure about it, I do mastrubate still though its not that often but its no reflection on how much I love my wife and how attracted I am to her.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

a lot of people, both men AND women, are simply lazy.
they would rather watch porn and masturbate than do just a little more effort and have the same sex as a couple.

I can understand if his wife travels a lot, and she is gone four days of the week. he gets horny, and watches porn to relieve himself (instead of going to a bar and picking up some floosy). That is a valid use.

but if she is in the next room, and is also eager to help a guy out....why not take it up that half step more from being lazy to having good sex?

Now we do not have the OPs husband's story here. maybe she is not a forthcoming with sex as she implies she is. That would be another reason to use porn, if you are not met with enthusiastic sex with your partner every time you are horny. Instead of pressing the point and getting laid, some men just sulk off an go to porn hub


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> It's just so easy now, sadly not many men are strong enough to go against the flow. Men who don't watch it aren't easy to find, but they are out there.


some men use porn as an educational experience. they want to learn new positions or new sex acts to try with their wives, but do not know who to ask for advice. enter the porn video, and they say "hey, i'd sure like to try THAT!"
think of it as a modern day kama sutra.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

redmarshall said:


> This seems like a very interesting conversation. Just to add to a few factors:-
> 
> In general, guys are more easily aroused and have a higher sex drive than women. Women need more time to warm up to the idea so there is a physiological angle there. Guys on average think about sex two times more than women do according to the studies. I think this factor is more mental rather than anything else, and its because women and men are wired differently. There is a reason why men are addicted to porn by an overwhelming margin, and thats because they have a psychological propensity for it.
> 
> ...


Its not about men not having 'an affinity' to porn or not being tempted by it, (nor do they have many other issues as well just because they don't watch porn!), its about them recognizing that its basically harmful for them, for their marriage and usually hurtful towards their wives. 
I do think that those men who don't watch porn do have to be strong and have good self control, after all its very much going against the flow and being so easily accessible now it takes a man with strength to stay away from it. 

You seem to be lumping masturbation with porn, you can easily do one without the other, mankind has done for many many centuries. 

Its also not about being insecure, being secure is being able to say I am not going to accept porn in our marriage and meaning it. I know women who have done that. I would rather be single than be with a man who treated me with such disrespect as to mentally cheat on me.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Talker67 said:


> some men use porn as an educational experience. they want to learn new positions or new sex acts to try with their wives, but do not know who to ask for advice. enter the porn video, and they say "hey, i'd sure like to try THAT!"
> think of it as a modern day kama sutra.


Just use your imagination. I think that saying that you are using it as an educational experience is a cop out.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Diana7 said:


> Just use your imagination. I think that saying that you are using it as an educational experience is a cop out.


I'm over 50. My imagination stopped working a while back.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

I haven't looked around for other posts but has there ever been a husband here who was talking about their wife watching too much porn? Just curious and also curious as to what the replies were\would be?


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I haven't looked around for other posts but has there ever been a husband here who was talking about their wife watching too much porn? Just curious and also curious as to what the replies were\would be?


I don't think there has been. The response would be similar. Those of us who want and enjoy sexual exclusivity would say she need to stop and they others would be like oh. Good for and I wish I was married to her.


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## Hawk249 (11 mo ago)

I find my husband to be a very strong man. Mentally and physically. I honestly never expected porn would be such a serious thing. Someone said maybe she’s not showing she’s enthusiastic about the sex so he doesn’t push it. I’ve done a lot of reading and research on how to make my husband desire me. Being enthusiastic was the main one. I make sure to bring my game. I truly enjoy it so no need to fake it. If I had to fake it then I’d just tell him to rub one out and I’d stay asleep. We didn’t really talk much last night about it. It was a decent day and I didn’t want to mess the night up by bringing it up. We had wonderful sex and a few hours later I bounced him and we did it again. He went to bed with me. I’m sure the subject will have to be mentioned again but fingers crossed we won’t. Someone else mentioned it’s modern day karma sutra. We have the book, we have toys. Hell I even got a swing!! I’m almost exhausted of ideas to try. Next step is to stop caring. Once I do that thought then there is nothing left. My feeling will be gone and he won’t have me to want to do these things for him.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I'm over 50. My imagination stopped working a while back.


I am over 60, mine hasn't.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Hawk249 said:


> I find my husband to be a very strong man. Mentally and physically. I honestly never expected porn would be such a serious thing. Someone said maybe she’s not showing she’s enthusiastic about the sex so he doesn’t push it. I’ve done a lot of reading and research on how to make my husband desire me. Being enthusiastic was the main one. I make sure to bring my game. I truly enjoy it so no need to fake it. If I had to fake it then I’d just tell him to rub one out and I’d stay asleep. We didn’t really talk much last night about it. It was a decent day and I didn’t want to mess the night up by bringing it up. We had wonderful sex and a few hours later I bounced him and we did it again. He went to bed with me. I’m sure the subject will have to be mentioned again but fingers crossed we won’t. Someone else mentioned it’s modern day karma sutra. We have the book, we have toys. Hell I even got a swing!! I’m almost exhausted of ideas to try. Next step is to stop caring. Once I do that thought then there is nothing left. My feeling will be gone and he won’t have me to want to do these things for him.


He isnt strong enough to stop doing something that you don't like and that hurts you though. If my husband asked me to stop doing something that he felt was damaging the marriage I would hope I would just stop.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Anastasia6 said:


> I don't think there has been. The response would be similar. Those of us who want and enjoy sexual exclusivity would say she need to stop and they others would be like oh. Good for and I wish I was married to her.


Yep. Its no different to me whether its the man or woman.


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## Bluesclues (Mar 30, 2016)

She said he isn’t getting fully erect with her on days he watches porn. That not full erection can plant some real negative self thoughts in a woman. Hard to believe someone finds you sexy and desires you when their penis says otherwise.

Doesn’t matter how educational porn is if the OP’s husband can’t get his pencil sharp for the test.


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## redmarshall (11 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> Its not about men not having 'an affinity' to porn or not being tempted by it, (nor do they have many other issues as well just because they don't watch porn!), its about them recognizing that its basically harmful for them, for their marriage and usually hurtful towards their wives.
> I do think that those men who don't watch porn do have to be strong and have good self control, after all its very much going against the flow and being so easily accessible now it takes a man with strength to stay away from it.
> 
> You seem to be lumping masturbation with porn, you can easily do one without the other, mankind has done for many many centuries.
> ...


Harmful how? I am only asking because if I saw the same traits within myself I would recognize them and honestly convey this on the forum. Porn addiction is something else, and consumption is something else. If he has an issue with normal functioning, yes I would agree he needs therapy of some sort. I am not supporting porn in anyway and merely stating fact. Can it be addictive? Sure. Is it in this case, no I don't think so.

Yes I agree, I was only drawing a parallel because in Initial stages of watching porn those two acts(for men, and me in particular) were not mutually exclusive, watching porn was a means to an end. After all this time though like I said, after I was married, the frequency was lesser and only spiked when we had kids, otherwise the novelty has worn off.

The secure statement was directed towards the OP because she's internalizing this, as a reflection on her, which its absolutely not. In marriage, mastrubation has its place, mutual or otherwise, that's what I believe. Should couples share that? absolutely.

Now, in this particular case, OP has made herself available to her husband and has even given him the place to wake her up if he needs something. I mean that's devotion, I wonder what my attitude would be if I were in a similar place, and honestly I really can't say. I hope you guys can find something workable. I really do.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

redmarshall said:


> Harmful how? I am only asking because if I saw the same traits within myself I would recognize them and honestly convey this on the forum. Porn addiction is something else, and consumption is something else. If he has an issue with normal functioning, yes I would agree he needs therapy of some sort. I am not supporting porn in anyway and merely stating fact. Can it be addictive? Sure. Is it in this case, no I don't think so.
> 
> Yes I agree, I was only drawing a parallel because in Initial stages of watching porn those two acts(for men, and me in particular) were not mutually exclusive, watching porn was a means to an end. After all this time though like I said, after I was married, the frequency was lesser and only spiked when we had kids, otherwise the novelty has worn off.
> 
> ...


There are plenty of threads which debate porn in general. Please start you own thread or join one of those. This thread is specific to this woman and her husband.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Hawk249 said:


> Yes I do have the right to tell him not to do it. I’m his wife and I do things as he ask of them. He could have the same respect. And no I don’t masturbate. I have a husband to turn to when I’m horny and when he’s not home I sext him and bounce on him when he gets home.


Why don't you ever masturbate?


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## redmarshall (11 mo ago)

Anastasia6 said:


> There are plenty of threads which debate porn in general. Please start you own thread or join one of those. This thread is specific to this woman and her husband.


yes and porn also btw which the husband is watching and the wife is feeling hurt by.

I’ll take your advice. I think this issue needs a thread because this issue in married couples is far too prevelant not to discuss.


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## Hawk249 (11 mo ago)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Why don't you ever masturbate?


I don’t have a need for it. I get my needs met while we’re having sex. If I’m still horny after we’re done I tell him I want to go again. It could be 30 mins or it could be 3 hours but I tell him I’m ready to go again! If I’m horny during the day I text him and tell him how anxious I am for him to get home, it builds up the excitement for me. It makes our physical contact even better for me.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

I think getting your husband off porn completely is probably best, but as an alternative, what are your thoughts on making porn for him?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Hawk249 said:


> I don’t have a need for it. I get my needs met while we’re having sex. If I’m still horny after we’re done I tell him I want to go again. It could be 30 mins or it could be 3 hours but I tell him I’m ready to go again! If I’m horny during the day I text him and tell him how anxious I am for him to get home, it builds up the excitement for me. It makes our physical contact even better for me.


Not being too presumptuous but I'd say you've masturbated a few times in your life. As getting to know what you like, variations, etc, that's a positive to do for the important reason you can share how you know like certain things and share with H, and he will greatly appreciate you sharing because no one can read each others mind contrary to the fallacy of some who say well he just should know without me telling him, that's the big unspoken lie.

I'd suggest you incorporate degrees of self pleasure during sexual encounters with H, it's a big turn on for you and him.

This all increases better communication.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Hawk249 said:


> I don’t have a need for it. I get my needs met while we’re having sex. If I’m still horny after we’re done I tell him I want to go again. It could be 30 mins or it could be 3 hours but I tell him I’m ready to go again! If I’m horny during the day I text him and tell him how anxious I am for him to get home, it builds up the excitement for me. It makes our physical contact even better for me.


If only everyone was like this...there may not be a need for porn???


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Anastasia6 said:


> There are plenty of threads which debate porn in general. Please start you own thread or join one of those. This thread is specific to this woman and her husband.


Agreed.

However most of the rhetoric here has been that porn is bad and destructive and about addictions and how it ruins marriages and how he shouldn’t do it and how it hurts puppies etc. there’s hasn’t been a lot of nuts and bolts advice to the OP in the actual merits of her situation.

The merits of her case are that they have a very active and robust sex life and on average have sex 4-5x a week.

She has made no claims that he does not avail himself to her or that she is not satisfied. 

She has made no indication that he has any kind of addiction or compulsion or that it is interfering with his daily functioning or the functioning of any other aspect of their life or marriage. 

He doesn’t reject or deny her.

The only spanking that she has reported has been late at night after she has gotten her’s when she is asleep. 

What she has stated is that she doesn’t like it and that it can make her feel insecure and she can’t understand why he spanks when she is willing. 

Those are the facts of this case as they have been presented. 

He hasn’t been rejecting or denying her. He hasn’t failed in giving her lovins or satisfying her. He isn’t neglecting any other work or domestic responsibilities or doing anything illegal or harmful to puppies and no evidence or report of squandering money or trying to hook up with other women etc 

So I see this as communication issue where they need to sit down and she needs to express her concerns and her feelings in a nonjudgmental, nonaccusatory snd none nagging manner so she doesn’t come off sounding like a catholic mother scolding a 12 year old boy for touching himself. 

He needs to be respectful and compassionate of her feelings and her comfort zones and do what he can to give her the love and attention and satisfaction that she needs.

HOWEVER, both of them need to understand that each is an adult that has free agency over their own bodies. 

It’s great that each is willing and available to step up to meet the other’s. That needs to be maintained. 

But you can’t tell a sane, sober, consenting adult what they can’t do with their own body on their own time. 

She owns her vagina and can do with it as she sees fit and if she absolutely cannot live with a guy who pulls up some nudie flick and spanks in the middle of the night after she has gotten hers, then she is free to dissolve the relationship if that is a deal breaker. 

But she does not own his penis and she does not have dominion over.

Sexuality is something that a couple shared freely if they so desire. It’s not something that the other owns.

This is a communication issue that they will need to discuss and work out together.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> Agreed.
> 
> However most of the rhetoric here has been that porn is bad and destructive and about addictions and how it ruins marriages and how he shouldn’t do it and how it hurts puppies etc. there’s hasn’t been a lot of nuts and bolts advice to the OP in the actual merits of her situation.
> 
> ...


No we cant tell or force our spouse not to do something but we can say what we will or won't live with or accept. Then it's their decision as to whether they carry on and risk loosing everything or stop and put their spouse and family first.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> No we cant tell or force our spouse not to do something but we can say what we will or won't live with or accept. Then it's their decision as to whether they carry on and risk loosing everything or stop and put their spouse and family first.


Yes


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> No we cant tell or force our spouse not to do something but we can say what we will or won't live with or accept. Then it's their decision as to whether they carry on and risk loosing everything or stop and put their spouse and family first.



Yes, you are correct. 

But this is an issue where both people will need to be adults in the real world. 

He needs to realize he has a good thing and does he really want to risk that to catch a peek of circus midgets in a vat of noodles. 

But she also needs to understand that she does not own his genitalia and he is not a naughty 12 year old touching his pee pee when he’s been told he’ll go blind. 

She also has to weigh the risks. Is she really willing to lose what she has and really willing to dissolve the marriage when she is getting her needs met and him having a spank in the middle of the night when she is asleep isn’t causing any other problems other than she prefer he not. Does she really want to be the Winkie Police to try to catch him touching himself and give him a scolding.

BOTH of them need to decide as married adults if this is the hill they want to die on or see if they can come to a mutually agreement and plan going forward.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> Yes, you are correct.
> 
> But this is an issue where both people will need to be adults in the real world.
> 
> ...


It depends on how we see porn, for me if I was married to a guy who watched porn and refused to stop,I see it as so unloving and disrespectful, I would give him the choice, me or the porn. If he still didn't stop then that would tell me all I needed to know about where I was in his priorities. 
To me its a form of cheating so I would act accordingly.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> It depends on how we see porn, for me if I was married to a guy who watched porn and refused to stop,I see it as so unloving and disrespectful, I would give him the choice, me or the porn. If he still didn't stop then that would tell me all I needed to know about where I was in his priorities.
> To me its a form of cheating so I would act accordingly.


Yes and @Hawk249 will also need to determine if this is something she can live with or not based on her values and moral compass and her temperaments based on the actual facts of her situation. 

But you need to keep in mind that you and Hawks are different people with different values and temperaments and different criteria.

You have a deep moral and religious objection to porn with no tolerance for it in any situation and regardless of its actual effect. That is your perogative. 

She really hasn’t said anything about any moral objections or that it offends her values or sensibilities ( maybe it does, but she has not said that)

Her issue is that she can’t understand why he would spank when she is willing to take care of those needs and it triggers her insecurity that he is looking at other chicks. 

I can’t remember if she said if she would be willing to watch it WITH him or not. 

Either way that is a completely different perspective on how you view porn in general. You two are completely different people under completely different circumstances.

She has to determine what she can accept based on HER values, moral beliefs, temperaments and the specifics of her actual situation.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> It depends on how we see porn, for me if I was married to a guy who watched porn and refused to stop,I see it as so unloving and disrespectful, I would give him the choice, me or the porn. If he still didn't stop then that would tell me all I needed to know about where I was in his priorities.
> To me its a form of cheating so I would act accordingly.


Some people have different boundaries, it's why it's SO important to really know someone before you marry them and to talk about ALL THE THINGS. Rushing to get married, especially if you're really young, is a risky game, because you may be too swept up in the romance to have the tough conversations. And truthfully, if you can't have those tough conversations with someone, you don't know them well enough and aren't comfortable enough with them to get married.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Some people have different boundaries, it's why it's SO important to really know someone before you marry them and to talk about ALL THE THINGS. Rushing to get married, especially if you're really young, is a risky game, because you may be too swept up in the romance to have the tough conversations. And truthfully, if you can't have those tough conversations with someone, you don't know them well enough and aren't comfortable enough with them to get married.


I agree with this but I will also add that the communication and discussions and heart to hearts should never end. 

We live long lives and people change, situations change, the world around us changes. 

There really is no one-and-done discussion in the world. 

Even if your views and opinions on various topics don’t really change much, there will be times that one will need to reaffirm their opinions and boundaries. 

Communication and negotiation and mutual discussions etc are like herpes, it never truly ends and various things will come up from time to time.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> I agree with this but I will also add that the communication and discussions and heart to hearts should never end.
> 
> We live long lives and people change, situations change, the world around us changes.
> 
> ...


You're correct. Basic values don't _usually_ change, but you MUST have open communication with your spouse.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> Communication and negotiation and mutual discussions etc are like herpes, it never truly ends and various things will come up from time to time.


WAIT...Lol!!! Can I point out one VERY important difference between communication and herpes?? 

One you want in your relationship...the other, you definitely DO NOT!!!! Lol!!


----------



## Hawk249 (11 mo ago)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Not being too presumptuous but I'd say you've masturbated a few times in your life. As getting to know what you like, variations, etc, that's a positive to do for the important reason you can share how you know like certain things and share with H, and he will greatly appreciate you sharing because no one can read each others mind contrary to the fallacy of some who say well he just should know without me telling him, that's the big unspoken lie.
> 
> I'd suggest you incorporate degrees of self pleasure during sexual encounters with H, it's a big turn on for you and him.
> 
> This all increases better communication.


We do. He enjoys watching me. We really do have amazing sex. I said I don’t do it privately I’ll do it all day long for him to watch because he likes it. He knows what I like because I have made sure to tell him and he has told me things he likes. That’s why I don’t understand the porn.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Hawk249 said:


> We do. He enjoys watching me. We really do have amazing sex. I said I don’t do it privately I’ll do it all day long for him to watch because he likes it. He knows what I like because I have made sure to tell him and he has told me things he likes. That’s why I don’t understand the porn.


Why do you need to understand it, though? If you have such a wonderful, exciting, giving and open sexual chemistry, why are you threatened by him watching porn?
(I'm really asking, not being snarky)


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## Hawk249 (11 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> Yes and @Hawk249 will also need to determine if this is something she can live with or not based on her values and moral compass and her temperaments based on the actual facts of her situation.
> 
> But you need to keep in mind that you and Hawks are different people with different values and temperaments and different criteria.
> 
> ...


I have watched it with him in years past. It did nothing for me, we tried multiple times.


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## Hawk249 (11 mo ago)

LisaDiane said:


> Why do you need to understand it, though? If you have such a wonderful, exciting, giving and open sexual chemistry, why are you threatened by him watching porn?
> (I'm really asking, not being snarky)


Because it honestly makes no sense to me. I need to understand why he feels the need to watch someone else when I’m physically willing and right there. I see that it’s just a thing and apparently doesn’t mean anything but it’s hard for me to comprehend that.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Hawk249 said:


> Because it honestly makes no sense to me. I need to understand why he feels the need to watch someone else when I’m physically willing and right there. I see that it’s just a thing and apparently doesn’t mean anything but it’s hard for me to comprehend that.


If it just that you don't understand it, that's one thing. It may just be one of those things that never makes sense to you.

If it makes you feel bad about yourself, that's something entirely different. Only you can decide how to deal with it. Or _if_ you deal with it. You also have the option to just ignore it; if everything else is fine, just pretend it isn't there and get your own thing on the side. (I do *not* mean have an affair, I just mean maybe think about a toy for yourself or something like that. If you had something like a toy that worked for you, it might make you better understand his porn. Does that sound crazy? I'm not sure, I'm trying to help, I'm sorry if that sounds weird or nuts (so to speak, badoompshhh)).


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

@Hawk249 

Here are thoughts as a healthy, vigorous man if I were in your husband’s position.

If I had a partner that was laying me like tile night after night and was down for anything, any time, porn and spanking would probably be the last thing on my to-do list ( unless we wanted to watch it together)

And if said partner felt threatened or insecure about porn, I would do everything I could to make her feel as secure snd appreciated and comfortable as possible. 

However, if she was telling me what I could and could not do with my own body and on my own time when her needs were being met and whatever I did when she was asleep or out of town and it was not effecting or impacting her in any way, I would see her telling me what I couldn’t do with my own equipment as a control issue and attempt to assert control and dominance and that would simply be a no bueno. I’m not a 12 year old, your not my mother and we’re not catholic. 

And even if I had a harem of Swedish bikini models, if they could not stand the fact that don’t own my penis 24/7 for life and would leave me if they found out I snook in a spank while they were all asleep - Buh bye. 

I’m a grown man. I don’t tell grown women what they can do with their lady bits on their own time when my needs are met. And they don’t tell me what I can’t do with mine. 

What you do with your jay jay is your business and if you simply can’t live with the knowledge he touches his junk now and then, you can take your jay jay elsewhere. 

But as I said above, you’re the only one that can determine if that is the hill you are will to die on based on your own values, temperaments and the facts of your own situation.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

LisaDiane said:


> WAIT...Lol!!! Can I point out one VERY important difference between communication and herpes??
> 
> One you want in your relationship...the other, you definitely DO NOT!!!! Lol!!


 
Ok fair enough LOL 😆 

Communication good.

Herpes bad 😝


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Hawk249 said:


> Because it honestly makes no sense to me.


Shall we make a list and discuss female traits and behaviors that make no sense to men? LOL


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> Shall we make a list and discuss female traits and behaviors that make no sense to men? LOL


It would honestly be faster to just list the female traits that DO make sense to men.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

LisaDiane said:


> Why do you need to understand it, though? If you have such a wonderful, exciting, giving and open sexual chemistry, why are you threatened by him watching porn?
> (I'm really asking, not being snarky)


You already know the reasons from all the other threads. I mean, it's obviously destructive to a lot of marriages, plus the human trafficking shouldn't be ignored if you have a conscience.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> It would honestly be faster to just list the female traits that DO make sense to men.


Which is not necessarily an indictment on women.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Which is not necessarily an indictment on women.


No, it is certainly not. We could make the same list ourselves, and it would be equally fun and funny.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Hawk249 said:


> Because it honestly makes no sense to me. I need to understand why he feels the need to watch someone else when I’m physically willing and right there. I see that it’s just a thing and apparently doesn’t mean anything but it’s hard for me to comprehend that.


If it didn't mean anything why would it be so hard to give up?


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## Hawk249 (11 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> If it just that you don't understand it, that's one thing. It may just be one of those things that never makes sense to you.
> 
> If it makes you feel bad about yourself, that's something entirely different. Only you can decide how to deal with it. Or _if_ you deal with it. You also have the option to just ignore it; if everything else is fine, just pretend it isn't there and get your own thing on the side. (I do *not* mean have an affair, I just mean maybe think about a toy for yourself or something like that. If you had something like a toy that worked for you, it might make you better understand his porn. Does that sound crazy? I'm not sure, I'm trying to help, I'm sorry if that sounds weird or nuts (so to speak, badoompshhh)).


But it does make me feel bad about myself. When he does it after I’m asleep I wonder what I did wrong during sex. He said he enjoyed it but did he really? I know I’ve over stressed about it and have made it more than it should be. I haven’t told him that he’s not allowed to touch his junk.I just asked to not watch porn while doing so. I don’t think I’d mind it as much if he was just spanking it. It’s the porn that’s making it complicated. You can say it doesn’t mean anything but when I’m laying there questioning what I should have done differently and what is the woman in the videos do for him that I can’t? Then to me it means more than nothing. Yes this is a conversation him and I will be having soon.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> Yes and @Hawk249 will also need to determine if this is something she can live with or not based on her values and moral compass and her temperaments based on the actual facts of her situation.
> 
> But you need to keep in mind that you and Hawks are different people with different values and temperaments and different criteria.
> 
> ...


Yes I appreciate that. 
Its far from being just religious, I knew porn wasn't something I wanted to be part of before I was a Christian. My faith has just confirmed that its damaging and a form of cheating. 

I think what I would find very hurtful in the ops position is that he isn't prepared to stop even though he knows it causes hurt and damage to the marriage. Why would he not do that, I just dont get why you would deliberately hurt your spouse in that way.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Hawk249 said:


> I have watched it with him in years past. It did nothing for me, we tried multiple times.


Ok.

My point was you and Diana are different people with different values and temperaments.

Diana has very strong moral and religious objections to porn and is very opposed to it regardless of situations or circumstances. 

You may not get off on it, but you’re not striking me as someone that has automatic moral objections to it or think that it is sinful and wrong 100% of the time regardless of circumstances. 

Your issues with it are more practical and nuts and bolts in how it is make you feel personally, rather than it being an act of sin and immorality.

As I said in my first post in this thread, a number of people here find it sinful and morally offensive regardless of circumstances.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Hawk249 said:


> But it does make me feel bad about myself. When he does it after I’m asleep I wonder what I did wrong during sex. He said he enjoyed it but did he really? I know I’ve over stressed about it and have made it more than it should be. I haven’t told him that he’s not allowed to touch his junk.I just asked to not watch porn while doing so. I don’t think I’d mind it as much if he was just spanking it. It’s the porn that’s making it complicated. You can say it doesn’t mean anything but when I’m laying there questioning what I should have done differently and what is the woman in the videos do for him that I can’t? Then to me it means more than nothing. Yes this is a conversation him and I will be having soon.


I completely understand how you feel. And "it's not that" is NOT the answer here. Just dismissing your feelings isn't helping you or making you feel better. You're so right, you need to talk to him about this, tell him how you feel, tell him how his reaction to it makes you feel, and figure out if he wants to fix this. I'm so sorry, you sound like you need a hug. 💜 I wish I could be more help but this is really on you. I understand and support you, if that helps at all.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Anastasia6 said:


> If it didn't mean anything why would it be so hard to give up?


Its like those who cheat and then say well it didn't mean anything. Of course it did or you wouldn't have done it. 🥺


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Hawk249 said:


> But it does make me feel bad about myself. When he does it after I’m asleep I wonder what I did wrong during sex. He said he enjoyed it but did he really? I know I’ve over stressed about it and have made it more than it should be. I haven’t told him that he’s not allowed to touch his junk.I just asked to not watch porn while doing so. I don’t think I’d mind it as much if he was just spanking it. It’s the porn that’s making it complicated. You can say it doesn’t mean anything but when I’m laying there questioning what I should have done differently and what is the woman in the videos do for him that I can’t? Then to me it means more than nothing. Yes this is a conversation him and I will be having soon.


I agree with LifeIsSoShort but go beyond that as well. I wouldn't tell my husband he can't masturbate but I don't want him to. I want all his sexual energy. I wouldn't divorce my husband for catching him watching porn (which he doesn't) but if he watched porn regularly it would turn me off. I'd no longer be turned on by him. I also view watching other women as being unfaithful so I would have a talk with him and eventually it would damage our relationship and I'd leave. 

Me and my husband have an understanding that anything that means a lot to the other means something to us. So the fact that it would bother me and make me insecure and make me feel betrayed matters to him. The fact you've offered him sex at anytime without even any effort means you are offering him a sexual outlet. So those arguing it means nothing, it shouldn't be hard to give up when you can have sex when ever you want it. It also means something that he lies about it.

Frankly I wouldn't care what the 'something' was if it was so meaningless and it bothered my husband I'd give it up. Crocheting bye. Now that being said. You only get so many of those 'things' or it just becomes controlling. I don't think objecting to your husband looking at naked women is controlling.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> Ok.
> 
> My point was you and Diana are different people with different values and temperaments.
> 
> ...


Part of my objection to porn is that it often really hurts the spouse and makes them feel 'less than'. Why would any spouse treat them that way? Its very sad.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Anastasia6 said:


> I agree with LifeIsSoShort but go beyond that as well. I wouldn't tell my husband he can't masturbate but I don't want him to. I want all his sexual energy. I wouldn't divorce my husband for catching him watching porn (which he doesn't) but if he watched porn regularly it would turn me off. I'd no longer be turned on by him. I also view watching other women as being unfaithful so I would have a talk with him and eventually it would damage our relationship and I'd leave.
> 
> Me and my husband have an understanding that anything that means a lot to the other means something to us. So the fact that it would bother me and make me insecure and make me feel betrayed matters to him. The fact you've offered him sex at anytime without even any effort means you are offering him a sexual outlet. So those arguing it means nothing, it shouldn't be hard to give up when you can have sex when ever you want it. It also means something that he lies about it.
> 
> Frankly I wouldn't care what the 'something' was if it was so meaningless and it bothered my husband I'd give it up. Crocheting bye. Now that being said. You only get so many of those 'things' or it just becomes controlling. I don't think objecting to your husband looking at naked women is controlling.


I am the same, I just wouldn't be sexually attracted to a man who watched porn. It would turn me off sex with him completely. I would have no respect for him at all. Therefore the marriage would be pointless.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> You already know the reasons from all the other threads. I mean, it's obviously destructive to a lot of marriages, plus the human trafficking shouldn't be ignored if you have a conscience.


I know the general objections from all the other threads...I was asking her to verbalize what her personal reasons were.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Devil's advocate here... maybe you are having too much sex and he is bored with you a bit and looks at other women... I had a "friend" (a serial cheater) who asked me once... are you not bored with staring at the same tits over and over again? I said "no", because we weren't having much sex...


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> Devil's advocate here... maybe you are having too much sex and he is bored with you a bit and looks at other women... I had a "friend" (a serial cheater) who asked me once... are you not bored with staring at the same tits over and over again? I said "no", because we weren't having much sex...


Which part of this is suppose to help the OP?

Are you advocating her having less sex? or allowing her husband to cheat?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

LisaDiane said:


> I know the general objections from all the other threads...I was asking her to verbalize what her personal reasons were.


I think she already has.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> Devil's advocate here... maybe you are having too much sex and he is bored with you a bit and looks at other women... I had a "friend" (a serial cheater) who asked me once... are you not bored with staring at the same tits over and over again? I said "no", because we weren't having much sex...


Seriously...??


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I think she already has.


Well, she answered me, so I don't think she objected to doing it again.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I was married for several decades. It was a dysfunctional marriage but whatever my husband wanted from me, I gladly gave him. It didn’t matter if I considered it important or unimportant — it was important to him so I did it. My focus was on making our marriage work so what made him happy was what I cared about. The reverse wasn’t true, unfortunately, and over time the damage was done. When you feel you’re not enough things aren’t going to go well.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Openminded said:


> I was married for several decades. It was a dysfunctional marriage but whatever my husband wanted from me, I gladly gave him. It didn’t matter if I considered it important or unimportant — it was important to him so I did it. My focus was on making our marriage work so what made him happy was what I cared about. The reverse wasn’t true, unfortunately, and over time the damage was done. When you feel you’re not enough things aren’t going to go well.


I think this hits the nail on the head. The issue isn't whether porn is good or bad. The issue is she feels inadequate and her husband is dismissive of those feelings.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I think she already has.


I'm not sure about your "sad" emoji, but I am taking it as kindly meant.

You will notice I didn't try to change her mind...although I disagree with her reasons for being insecure about this, I accept that she sees it differently than I do, and I don't believe my perspective will help her. If this is important to her, then I will leave it.

Also, I haven't been following the thread, and was asking in response to that one particular post I quoted to her.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> Devil's advocate here... maybe you are having too much sex and he is bored with you a bit and looks at other women... I had a "friend" (a serial cheater) who asked me once... are you not bored with staring at the same tits over and over again? I said "no", because we weren't having much sex...


I strongly disagree.

As I have maintained throughout the thread, I don’t think him spanking to lorn has a thing to with either her or their sex life. 

This is a thing with HIM.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Anastasia6 said:


> Which part of this is suppose to help the OP?
> 
> Are you advocating her having less sex? or allowing her husband to cheat?


no, I'm trying to find a reason why he prefers porn to the wife, sometimes... I thought it was clear...


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> I strongly disagree.
> 
> As I have maintained throughout the thread, I don’t think him spanking to lorn has a thing to with either her or their sex life.
> 
> This is a thing with HIM.


I agree...


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

LisaDiane said:


> Seriously...??


see above... you will be surprised how some men's mind works...


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Something wives should consider too is time _isn’t_ on your side. You should address the porn problem head on.

If it’s a problem now it will only get worse when he’s older, less hard, and you’re older, saggier, wrinkled too.

How are you gonna feel when you’re 50-60 and he’s jacking off to 30-40 year olds? Then he comes to bed with a limpy because he’s been masturbating all week. Then you work to get him interested and it’s twice as difficult because he’s older and used to looking at thirty year olds naked (not you). Porn also re-wires the 🧠 brain.

It’s a bit like alcoholism- young guys can pull it and hold everything together. But if it continues long enough the not so young guy becomes just another pitiful drunk.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Hawk249 said:


> But it does make me feel bad about myself. When he does it after I’m asleep I wonder what I did wrong during sex. He said he enjoyed it but did he really? I know I’ve over stressed about it and have made it more than it should be. I haven’t told him that he’s not allowed to touch his junk.I just asked to not watch porn while doing so. I don’t think I’d mind it as much if he was just spanking it. It’s the porn that’s making it complicated. You can say it doesn’t mean anything but when I’m laying there questioning what I should have done differently and what is the woman in the videos do for him that I can’t? Then to me it means more than nothing. Yes this is a conversation him and I will be having soon.


This is a very valid reason to ask him to not watch porn. Have you clearly stated, like this, how you feel about him using porn and how it makes you feel?


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> see above... you will be surprised how some men's mind works...


Then those men don't deserve wives who are sexually uninhibited and giving to their partners.

I wonder if they would ever be HONEST about thinking that way..."gee, I'm bored of how much I get to touch your boobs, you should hide them from me and push my hands away more"...


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## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

redmarshall said:


> This seems like a very interesting conversation. Just to add to a few factors:-
> 
> In general, guys are more easily aroused and have a higher sex drive than women. Women need more time to warm up to the idea so there is a physiological angle there. Guys on average think about sex two times more than women do according to the studies. I think this factor is more mental rather than anything else, and its because women and men are wired differently. There is a reason why men are addicted to porn by an overwhelming margin, and thats because they have a psychological propensity for it.
> 
> ...





oldshirt said:


> I agree with this but I will also add that the communication and discussions and heart to hearts should never end.
> 
> We live long lives and people change, situations change, the world around us changes.
> 
> ...


Marriage is like toilet paper.... you are either on a roll or dealing with someone elses chit.


But seriously, these two pieces of advice from these two users are golden.


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## Hawk249 (11 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I completely understand how you feel. And "it's not that" is NOT the answer here. Just dismissing your feelings isn't helping you or making you feel better. You're so right, you need to talk to him about this, tell him how you feel, tell him how his reaction to it makes you feel, and figure out if he wants to fix this. I'm so sorry, you sound like you need a hug. 💜 I wish I could be more help but this is really on you. I understand and support you, if that helps at all.


Thank you!! I really could use a hug lol Everyone has really been helpful with all the inputs. That’s why I put it here so I can hear all sides. The responses have helped me in figuring out better ways to discuss it with him. I don’t ask much from him. I don’t bug him about things. He works hard and he deserves what he wants. As long as his sexual wants are mine. I’m not high maintenance. I don’t like fancy things. I’m simple people and I don’t require much.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

LisaDiane said:


> Then those men don't deserve wives who are sexually uninhibited and giving to their partners.
> 
> I wonder if they would ever be HONEST about thinking that way..."gee, I'm bored of how much I get to touch your boobs, you should hide them from me and push my hands away more"...


Totally agree… I was shocked when my “friend” said that to me. I thought WTF, you are from a different universe.


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## Hawk249 (11 mo ago)

Apparently the first time I said something months ago I guess I didn’t make my feelings heard. The other night though I made sure I was very clear on how it made me feel no made sure he knew it wasn’t about the spanking but about the porn. I’m


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Hawk249 said:


> Thank you!! I really could use a hug lol Everyone has really been helpful with all the inputs. That’s why I put it here so I can hear all sides. The responses have helped me in figuring out better ways to discuss it with him. I don’t ask much from him. I don’t bug him about things. He works hard and he deserves what he wants. As long as his sexual wants are mine. I’m not high maintenance. I don’t like fancy things. I’m simple people and I don’t require much.


There's an awesome poster on here whose tag line is something like: "Once you realize your own value, it's harder to put up with people who don't appreciate you." Her wording is better than that. You deserve to be happy, just as much as he does. You matter in this marriage as much as he does, and marriage ideally should be two people working to make each other happy, not two people working to make one of them happy. Stand up for yourself and recognize how valuable you are. You're a good wife, he needs to step up and be a good husband. Honestly, he probably wants to because he sounds like he is a good husband in a lot of ways, and really pushing this honest, frank conversation will make a huge difference. He can't read your mind and subtlety is sometimes not our friend. Courage, know your worth and ask for what you want, then be prepared to compromise, as long as the compromise isn't all on one side. (yours OR his) 💜


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Hawk249 said:


> I don’t have a need for it. I get my needs met while we’re having sex. If I’m still horny after we’re done I tell him I want to go again. It could be 30 mins or it could be 3 hours but I tell him I’m ready to go again! If I’m horny during the day I text him and tell him how anxious I am for him to get home, it builds up the excitement for me. It makes our physical contact even better for me.


Have you spent any time getting to know yourself, and what feels best to you, how you like this, that, it's really about getting to know yourself, testing it, modifying it, grabbing hold of details so you can share this important information with H.

It's part of being one adult, in a two adult M. 

Because if you don't know what and how you like certain ways on various positions or acts.....
how can you share what you like with H?


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Have you spent any time getting to know yourself, and what feels best to you, how you like this, that, it's really about getting to know yourself, testing it, modifying it, grabbing hold of details so you can share this important information with H.
> 
> It's part of being one adult, in a two adult M.
> 
> ...


What does this have to do with her husbands porn habit making her emotionally feel bad?


----------



## Hawk249 (11 mo ago)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Have you spent any time getting to know yourself, and what feels best to you, how you like this, that, it's really about getting to know yourself, testing it, modifying it, grabbing hold of details so you can share this important information with H.
> 
> It's part of being one adult, in a two adult M.
> 
> ...


Yes this isn’t the problem


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Anastasia6 said:


> What does this have to do with her husbands porn habit making her emotionally feel bad?


This has to do with good communication flowing both ways, specifically good, productive sexual talk in positive frame of mind.

How can one tell their partner if they like chocolate ice cream, or other 30 flavors, if they've never even tasted other that vanilla. 

Yes, porn bad here, yes, all that. 

Now moving on. If W can share what she likes, even show, specifically not requiring H to be a mind reader or great guesser, the fact she's talking about sex with H in good spirits is another way to draw sexually and physically closer.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> This has to do with good communication flowing both ways, specifically good, productive sexual talk in positive frame of mind.
> 
> How can one tell their partner if they like chocolate ice cream, or other 30 flavors, if they've never even tasted other that vanilla.
> 
> ...


Sounds like that has already happened.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Anastasia6 said:


> Sounds like that has already happened.


I would think in reality no, it hasn't happened.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Hawk249 said:


> But it does make me feel bad about myself. When he does it after I’m asleep I wonder what I did wrong during sex. He said he enjoyed it but did he really? I know I’ve over stressed about it and have made it more than it should be. I haven’t told him that he’s not allowed to touch his junk.I just asked to not watch porn while doing so. I don’t think I’d mind it as much if he was just spanking it. It’s the porn that’s making it complicated. You can say it doesn’t mean anything but when I’m laying there questioning what I should have done differently and what is the woman in the videos do for him that I can’t? Then to me it means more than nothing. Yes this is a conversation him and I will be having soon.


This brings up a couple philosophical concepts for both of you to consider. 

For HIM: Does he really wanting to be doing something that he knows makes you feel insecure and negatively impacts your self esteem which in time can negatively impact your respect and desire for him?

And for YOU: how much power do you want something that HE does with himself on his own time after your needs have been met to have on YOUR sense of self worth and self value? 

As these are philosophical questions so you can apply to to pretty much anything.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

The only thing I might add from a guy's perspective is the OP mentions a few times about the "women" in the porn he is watching. Not trying to defend anyone or saying what is right or wrong, just want to add a guy's perspective.

Sometimes you watch porn not for the actual women in it but the setting and situation. Admittedly, I have watched (and will likely watch again) situations I will never experience in real life. Threesomes, group sex, sex on a beach, sex in a hot tub, sex with others around, etc. Whereby I am not focusing on the women in it as some are indeed mature, old, not model quality, etc (as most are real couples) but ARE doing things I would like to do. 

Its the fact of watching people that are like me (old, mature, not model quality) that makes it exciting.

So yes its porn and yes they are having sex. But I am not focused on how any particular woman is as much as the fact I would like to be doing what they are doing in that particular situation. Some of the women are actually worse looking than my wife but its still the situation that is the exciting part.

MAYBE if the OPs husband is the same way, she can steer him away from watching these things and go and do them in real life like she says she is open to? OK maybe not threesomes or group sex but maybe some other things that are more risque than what they are doing now??? Beach sex, outdoor sex, etc.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> The only thing I might add from a guy's perspective is the OP mentions a few times about the "women" in the porn he is watching. Not trying to defend anyone or saying what is right or wrong, just want to add a guy's perspective.
> 
> Sometimes you watch porn not for the actual women in it but the setting and situation. Admittedly, I have watched (and will likely watch again) situations I will never experience in real life. Threesomes, group sex, sex on a beach, sex in a hot tub, sex with others around, etc. Whereby I am not focusing on the women in it as some are indeed mature, old, not model quality, etc (as most are real couples) but ARE doing things I would like to do.
> 
> ...


And it is still lusting after something you can't have. It breeds unhappiness and it's still her decision as to how she wants to view that. I view it as looking at other naked people. I view it as lusting or spending sexual energy outside of my marriage. Porn also encourages things like threesome that I don't think were all that common 100 years ago which usually turns out bad. Did they exist 100 years ago I'm sure they did. Did men regularly think about it or think it was something they wanted. No I don't think most men did. Porn changes things.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Anastasia6 said:


> And it is still lusting after something you can't have. It breeds unhappiness and it's still her decision as to how she wants to view that. I view it as looking at other naked people. I view it as lusting or spending sexual energy outside of my marriage. Porn also encourages things like threesome that I don't think were all that common 100 years ago which usually turns out bad. Did they exist 100 years ago I'm sure they did. Did men regularly think about it or think it was something they wanted. No I don't think most men did. Porn changes things.


Well not sure about that as the French Renaissance was known for some pretty wild stuff. 

But aside from that, sure its still porn but just sharing my perspective. And of course most here on TAM are going to be against it as it for the years I have been here, seems to be a conservative crowd. But as I have mentioned before, I hang out at some other places that are essentially on the other end of the spectrum and guys brag that their wives are into watching porn or or making their own, going to nude beaches or some of the adults only resorts in Mexico and the Caribbean.

As I said, not trying to defend anything, just sharing some real world experiences as to why some guys (OK me!) watch porn.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Well not sure about that as the French Renaissance was known for some pretty wild stuff.
> 
> But aside from that, sure its still porn but just sharing my perspective. And of course most here on TAM are going to be against it as it for the years I have been here, seems to be a conservative crowd. But as I have mentioned before, I hang out at some other places that are essentially on the other end of the spectrum and guys brag that their wives are into watching porn or or making their own, going to nude beaches or some of the adults only resorts in Mexico and the Caribbean.
> 
> As I said, not trying to defend anything, just sharing some real world experiences as to why some guys (OK me!) watch porn.


Actually most the men on TAM are all for porn and some of the women. I think each relationship has to define it's own boundaries. I don't think it's healthy and you can look around this very site and see men who turn their wives down due to porn. men who can't have a PIV orgasm due to spanking to porn, men who thought they wanted to see their wife get ****ed by some other guy only to later realize they didn't (inspired by porn). Do some relationship use porn and have 'no' problems. Probably. Some people smoke and never catch cancer.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Anastasia6 said:


> Porn also encourages things like threesome that I don't think were all that common 100 years ago which usually turns out bad. Did they exist 100 years ago I'm sure they did. Did men regularly think about it or think it was something they wanted. No I don't think most men did. Porn changes things.


Whoe! If porn leads to threesomes, then...😁 LOL


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

So OP I don’t get it either.

I can say even when I was a maniac and wanting to have sex all the time when I was in my early 20s my now wife gave me more than I can handle. No room for porn at that time.

Similarly when trying to reconnect sexually I found it very useful to completely shut down porn and masturbation to zero.

Even if your partner can come close, let’s say you want sex 10x a week and they can do 6-7 and rain check to a specific time; for me, I see no need for porn or masturbation as it’s “close enough” and better to save up for the real thing.

When you add in being explicitly asked to stop; that is the nail in the coffin.

I think it’s entirely reasonable to ask that he stop and expect him to stop given you’re there at the asking. Like if he really wants odd stuff he can just ask. I ask my wife now if I want her to try something and sometimes she will sometimes she won’t but I feel good to ask her directly.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Anastasia6 said:


> Actually most the men on TAM are all for porn and some of the women. I think each relationship has to define it's own boundaries. I don't think it's healthy and you can look around this very site and see men who turn their wives down due to porn. men who can have an orgasm due to spanking to porn, men who thought they wanted to see their wife get ****ed by some other guy only to later realize they didn't (inspired by porn). Do some relationship use porn and have 'no' problems. Probably. Some people smoke and never catch cancer.


I think that’s way overgeneralizing.

The most vocal people about porn on this site are very anti porn and think it’s wrong and bad at all times regardless of the situation.

For others, it’s situational and if they see it causing or contributing to a problem, then they call it out. 

I don’t anyone denies that of someone is spamming to porn all the time and not taking care of their partner, that that is a problem that needs to be addressed. 

I don’t think anyone has ever said that there aren’t problems out there due to porn just like no one says that alcohol or drugs don’t cause problems. 

But what happens is when there are people who’s knee-jerk response to any problem is immediately to blame porn and who maintain that porn is always 100% bad and the root of all evil, others are going to stand up and say, “not so fast, let’s take a deeper and more objective and balanced look at this.” 

That’s not saying that people are “all for porn.”

It’s saying let’s be open minded and objective and look into all possible causes. 

I have recommended laying off the porn many many times over the years because I think it is part of the problem.

But I don’t always think it is part of the problem. 

And I don’t think it is always immoral, sinful or evil regardless of circumstances. 

I don’t drink alcohol at all, but I don’t think it is always harmful or immoral. But I recognize that for some people it causes a lot of problems.

Same with marijuana.

Same with guns.

Same with video games. 

The particular subject isn’t inherently good or bad in and of itself. It’s what people do with it.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> I think that’s way overgeneralizing.
> 
> The most vocal people about porn on this site are very anti porn and think it’s wrong and bad at all times regardless of the situation.
> 
> ...


It's not the same as all those other things morally because of sex trafficking.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> It's not the same as all those other things morally because of sex trafficking.


I would say anything is the same if its disruptive to the marriage. My wife watches a huge amount of conspiracy videos and to me thats just as bad as anything else.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I would say anything is the same if its disruptive to the marriage. My wife watches a huge amount of conspiracy videos and to me thats just as bad as anything else.


I wouldn't like that either. I have my antenna up about people who are into conspiracy theories. Lots of times it indicates some delusions or paranoia or other mental illness as well as associated with some serious criminality. But at least reading about conspiracy isn't supporting an industry that enslaves women and sex trafficks them. I'm very disappointed when people are able to just not care about that.


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## Hawk249 (11 mo ago)

Thank you again everyone! Y’all have really helped my confidence in talking to him about it. We talked again last night and he said he’ll turn his phone off, hide it in a drawer or whatever, that he hasn’t messed with it since we talked the other night. We talked about him waking me up and he agrees to do so. He said he understands it hurts me and that’s not what he’s trying to do. He said he’s willing to put it away and focus more on us. I let him know nicely that if he’s doing it that I won’t be offering any sex and if I do it will not be entertaining. He said he’d much rather have me physically than to watch his phone.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Anastasia6 said:


> And it is still lusting after something you can't have. It breeds unhappiness and it's still her decision as to how she wants to view that. I view it as looking at other naked people. I view it as lusting or spending sexual energy outside of my marriage. Porn also encourages things like threesome that I don't think were all that common 100 years ago which usually turns out bad. Did they exist 100 years ago I'm sure they did. Did men regularly think about it or think it was something they wanted. No I don't think most men did. Porn changes things.


Anything that brings discontentment in a marriage should be avoided at all costs. It seems to me that porn starts the fire and feeds the fire of discontentment. 
For that reason alone porn is damaging and to be avoided.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Hawk249 said:


> Thank you again everyone! Y’all have really helped my confidence in talking to him about it. We talked again last night and he said he’ll turn his phone off, hide it in a drawer or whatever, that he hasn’t messed with it since we talked the other night. We talked about him waking me up and he agrees to do so. He said he understands it hurts me and that’s not what he’s trying to do. He said he’s willing to put it away and focus more on us. I let him know nicely that if he’s doing it that I won’t be offering any sex and if I do it will not be entertaining. He said he’d much rather have me physically than to watch his phone.


Well done for being strong and giving him clear boundaries. I hope he keeps to what he said.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Hawk249 said:


> I let him know nicely that if he’s doing it that I won’t be offering any sex and if I do it will not be entertaining.


Well now, that doesn’t doesn’t sound manipulative or game playing at all LOL 😆 

But to give you benefit of the doubt, how did you actually word that??


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> Well now, that doesn’t doesn’t sound manipulative or game playing at all LOL 😆
> 
> But to give you benefit of the doubt, how did you actually word that??


Lemme explain where I’m going with this. 

The two things men crave most from women is their respect and desire, and they will move mountains and launch a thousand ships to earn it. 

But if a guy worth his weight in beetle dung gets a whiff she is trying to exploit, manipulate or play games with him,,,,,,,,, well let’s just say it won’t work out in her favor. 

To have an honest and sincere discussion and let someone know that porn use is something that negatively impacts your respect and desire for a man is 100% fair, appropriate and candid. 

But to sit and say, “no num-nums for you if you touch your weenie,” is is pure manipulation and game playing that guys with balls and a spine have been raised from birth to reject and send those chicks back to their daddies.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Diana7 said:


> Anything that brings discontentment in a marriage should be avoided at all costs. It seems to me that porn starts the fire and feeds the fire of discontentment.
> For that reason alone porn is damaging and to be avoided.


I tend to disagree with this principle in general in most relationships, especially marriages.

Oftentimes, discomfort, discontentment, and conflict are the bringers of truth and GROWTH, for the individual and the relationship. Those negative feelings are like a spotlight for weak points in ourselves and our relationship, and are even more helpful for deepening our sense of intimacy and connection with eachother than getting along and feeling happy.

When handled maturely and openly (despite our fears), those feelings can be the best teachers.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

LisaDiane said:


> I tend to disagree with this principle in general in most relationships, especially marriages.
> 
> Oftentimes, discomfort, discontentment, and conflict are the bringers of truth and GROWTH, for the individual and the relationship. Those negative feelings are like a spotlight for weak points in ourselves and our relationship, and are even more helpful for deepening our sense of intimacy and connection with eachother than getting along and feeling happy.
> 
> When handled maturely and openly (despite our fears), those feelings can be the best teachers.


Agreed.

If people did not address and work through things that bring anxiety and discomfort, we’d still be drawing outlines of our hands and stick-pictures of antelope on cave walls.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

LisaDiane said:


> I tend to disagree with this principle in general in most relationships, especially marriages.
> 
> Oftentimes, discomfort, discontentment, and conflict are the bringers of truth and GROWTH, for the individual and the relationship. Those negative feelings are like a spotlight for weak points in ourselves and our relationship, and are even more helpful for deepening our sense of intimacy and connection with eachother than getting along and feeling happy.
> 
> When handled maturely and openly (despite our fears), those feelings can be the best teachers.


I wouldn't do anything that made me discontent with my husband or marriage.
Contentment is a great thing to have. Not many do. So many want more money, more things, a bigger house, a newer car, a more attentive husband, a more sexual wife, a job with more money, a boat, new furniture and on and on.

If reading romance books makes me discontent with my husband why would I do it? If watching porn makes a guy discontent with his wife or sex life then why do it?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> Lemme explain where I’m going with this.
> 
> The two things men crave most from women is their respect and desire, and they will move mountains and launch a thousand ships to earn it.
> 
> ...


There’s a lot wrong with this. A LOT. But I think in fairness to hawk, and to avoid a threadjack, the only point that matters is completely you’re misinterpreting her intent. This is not, nor was it ever, about control for her. It’s about feeling attractive and being respected as a person. If your wife had the big scary piledriver sex toy and agreed she’d have duty sex with you occasionally but was getting her REAL jollies from the toy, would that make you feel sexy and desirable? Would you want to initiate what you knew was a combination of duty and pity sex? Women also crave respect and desire. His porn use robbed her of those things. She matters just as much as he does in this marriage.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> Agreed.
> 
> If people did not address and work through things that bring anxiety and discomfort, we’d still be drawing outlines of our hands and stick-pictures of antelope on cave walls.


Personally I didn't mention anxiety or discomfort. 
I said that they are things that we can do that make us discontent with our spouse and marriage. Discontentment is deadly for a marriage so surely it's best not to do things that would cause that to happen. We need to be thankful for what we have not always wanting 'more' or 'better'.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Hawk249 said:


> He said he’d much rather have me physically than to watch his phone.


I would hope so! There are a lot of men in starved marriages choking the chicken in desperation. And here your husband has a willing partner telling him to wake you up if he needs some action. A dream come true. 

My wife told me the same thing very long ago, and not to get me to stop anything. 

Your husband needs to delete any apps, websites, accounts that facilitates anything besides intimacy with you. Any man knows his hand is a terrible substitute for being with his wife.

If he was an alcoholic he would need to keep booze out of the house


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

TexasMom1216 said:


> There’s a lot wrong with this. A LOT. But I think in fairness to hawk, and to avoid a threadjack, the only point that matters is completely you’re misinterpreting her intent. This is not, nor was it ever, about control for her. It’s about feeling attractive and being respected as a person. If your wife had the big scary piledriver sex toy and agreed she’d have duty sex with you occasionally but was getting her REAL jollies from the toy, would that make you feel sexy and desirable? Would you want to initiate what you knew was a combination of duty and pity sex? Women also crave respect and desire. His porn use robbed her of those things. She matters just as much as he does in this marriage.


I think you missed the point of my post and it is not a threadjack as it is quite pertinent to the OP’s discussions with her H. 

The devil is in the verbiage and presentation.

To explain that a certain behavior is negatively effecting your respect and desire for someone is very valid and important information effecting the functioning of a relationship. It is how adults should communicate. 

But to say no nookie for you if you do this or that absolutely IS ABOUT CONTROL. It’s a manipulation and is game playing. 

To use your piledriver sex toy an analogy, if that were the case, how should I address that?

Should I wag my finger in her face and say if she uses the piledriver, she ain’t gonna be get’n any of the real thing from me. 

Or should I be upfront honest and address like it like a mature adult and explain that it makes me feel threatened and negatively impacts my 
connection and feelings for her?

Which is going to have better outcome?

(I know it’s not a completely fair analogy because women don’t care if a man feels threatened or inadequate and see that as a weakness and defect in him, but the communication point is still valid. One is an honest expression of how something effects their feelings towards their partner. 

The other is a manipulation to get them to do what you want.... ie “control”)


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> To have an honest and sincere discussion and let someone know that porn use is something that negatively impacts your respect and desire for a man is 100% fair, appropriate and candid.
> 
> But to sit and say, “no num-nums for you if you touch your weenie,” is is pure manipulation and game playing that guys with balls and a spine have been raised from birth to reject and send those chicks back to their daddies.


I don't think what she is doing is manipulation at all. She isn't saying something like do the wash, or clean the bathroom and I'll give you sex. She is saying, you are doing something that hurts me emotionally and degrades my desire for you. If you don't stop I won't be interested in having sex with you any more. That is how I interrupted her comments. What she said isn't manipulation any more than saying you need to take a shower and get rid of your BO or I'm not having sex with you.

This guy is standing at the gates of heaven and he thought it was a good idea to hang outside instead of go in, lol. He isn't getting manipulated to allow him to have sex. He has a wife handing him sexual satisfaction on a platter. He better take it or we should revoke his man card. I'm glad that he appears to have seen the light.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> I think you missed the point of my post and it is not a threadjack as it is quite pertinent to the OP’s discussions with her H.


No, no, your post wasn't a threadjack, but if I went on some tirade about the wording in your post that (I hate using this word) "triggered" me, THAT would have been a threadjack and a useless exercise that would have helped no one. That's what I meant, obviously I wasn't clear. Sorry about that.


oldshirt said:


> (I know it’s not a completely fair analogy because women don’t care if a man feels threatened or inadequate and see that as a weakness and defect in him


Dude. That is NOT true. I do this too, I make generalizations about men that are unfair. But not all of you are my father or my first fiancé (is that what you call him? I didn't marry him, but I was engaged to him. Whatever, doesn't matter, SQUIRREL!  ) so making sweeping generalizations about men, projecting my personal experiences with a few bad ones on all of you is something I am truly working on. Of course we care if you feel threatened. We care a LOT.


oldshirt said:


> To explain that a certain behavior is negatively effecting your respect and desire for someone is very valid and important information effecting the functioning of a relationship. It is how adults should communicate.


You're completely correct here. But it sure sounds like you don't think she did that, because it seems from your posts like you're misinterpreting why this bugged her. She's not trying to wrangle his peep. She wants to be respected and desired and feel like sex in her marriage is something special they share. The porn hurts her feelings. Wouldn't you want to know if you were doing something that hurt your wife? (that's rhetorical, I know you would)

Now if he had come back and said, "tough, you're taking it wrong and you can't control me," what should she have done? Should she have silently stopped initiating sex and silently resented him until she didn't love or respect him any more because of the lack of love and respect he was showing her? No one wants to be someone's Plan B. No one would be happy that way. Wouldn't it be better to be honest and up front about how continued porn use would affect her?

I hope she answers your question when she comes back and tells you that she was kind, respectful and honest. Because that's what I think she's going to do. I don't think you understand the feelings she is having (which is not your fault), and I don't think you understand how important being respected is for some women (also not your fault). I can relate to her because it is vitally important to my happiness that I feel like I am respected; it's to do with my past. (Any more detail would be a threadjack, and my head is permanently on the ban chopping block so I won't get into it).


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I don't think what she is doing is manipulation at all. She isn't saying something like do the wash, or clean the bathroom and I'll give you sex. She is saying, you are doing something that hurts me emotionally and degrades my desire for you. If you don't stop I won't be interested in having sex with you any more.


I hope she worded it that way when she actually talked to him.

But what she reported here is that she said this -



Hawk249 said:


> I let him know nicely that if he’s doing it that I won’t be offering any sex and if I do it will not be entertaining. .


If that is what she actually said, that is pure manipulation and game playing. 

Or at least how any guy with balls and dignity would interpret it.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> I hope she worded it that way when she actually talked to him.
> 
> But what she reported here is that she said this -
> 
> ...


In order for this to be seen as manipulation you would have to ignore the entire context of all her posts here and what she has said she already discussed with her husband. 

BTW, I have balls and dignity and it isn't how I interpret it.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> I hope she worded it that way when she actually talked to him.
> 
> But what she reported here is that she said this -
> 
> ...


It wasn't manipulation at all. It was her clearly setting a sensible boundary of what she would and wouldn't accept.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> Devil's advocate here... maybe you are having too much sex and he is bored with you a bit and looks at other women... I had a "friend" (a serial cheater) who asked me once... are you not bored with staring at the same tits over and over again? I said "no", because we weren't having much sex...


That's a big negatory!


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> The two things men crave most from women is their respect and desire, and they will move mountains and launch a thousand ships to earn it.


LOL This appears to completely miss the boat when it comes to porn. How respected and desired do you think wives feel when their man is watching porn? Are women not supposed to care about feeling respected in their own homes? Are women not supposed to feel desired by their husband? 

Yes, it is all about him until it isn't. If he wants it to be all about him, then he needs to be all by himself or find a woman who holds porn in as high regard as himself and the two of them can duke it out.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> It wasn't manipulation at all. It was her clearly setting a sensible boundary of what she would and wouldn't accept.





BigDaddyNY said:


> In order for this to be seen as manipulation you would have to ignore the entire context of all her posts here and what she has said she already discussed with her husband.
> 
> BTW, I have balls and dignity and it isn't how I interpret it.



Communication is an art and skill and how we say things and the words we choose are often more important than what is actually said.

How many times do kids get sent to time out (or a swat across the mouth back in my day) for how they said it vs what they said. 

Now, I’m hoping she said it in the manner y’all are assuming. 

But if she actually said it the way she told us she said it, it IS manipulation because it’s a threat by her to alter his behavior. 

The key here is her own desire and motives. 

She has clearly stated she wants to have an active and gratifying sex life with him. 

The catch is his porn use as that effects her self esteem and security in her own sexuality. 

To express to him that him spanking to porn makes her feel insecure and question of her own desirability and can impact her desire and respect for him is fair and appropriate and legitimate statement of cause and effect.

But to tell him no num-nums for him if he touches his winkie is manipulation because it’s disingenuous and a threat to manipulate his behavior. 

Since she DOES want to have an active sex life with him, it’s disingenuous of her to tell him she won’t put out the nookie if he plays with his weenie. 

It’s not really an expression of her feelings or an impact statement of his actions. It’s a threat to get him to comply with her wants. 

It may feel good to say in the moment and it may make all of you feel good to hear her say it. 

But it will backfire and just add to the conflict and disconnect in the long run.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Blondilocks said:


> LOL This appears to completely miss the boat when it comes to porn. How respected and desired do you think wives feel when their man is watching porn? Are women not supposed to care about feeling respected in their own homes? Are women not supposed to feel desired by their husband?
> 
> Yes, it is all about him until it isn't. If he wants it to be all about him, then he needs to be all by himself or find a woman who holds porn in as high regard as himself and the two of them can duke it out.


I agree with what you say, but it has nothing to do with what I said.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> That's a big negatory!


Not sure what you mean....


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> Well now, that doesn’t doesn’t sound manipulative or game playing at all LOL 😆
> 
> But to give you benefit of the doubt, how did you actually word that??


It's called boundaries, Old Shirt. You should look it up sometime.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> I agree with what you say, but it has nothing to do with what I said.


It has everything to do with what you said.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> But if she actually said it the way she told us she said it, it IS manipulation because it’s a threat by her to alter his behavior.


Why haven't I seen you cry manipulation when a sex starved husband is advised to tell their wife they don't want to be in a sexless marriage and that they are willing to end the marriage over it? (I think it is reasonable advice in many cases BTW) Yes she wants him to change his behavior because he has crossed the line of one of her boundaries. 

Is it any different than her saying stop the affair or I will divorce you? Would call that manipulating him into stopping an affair? I know you think porn is every man's God given right, but everyone has their boundaries, should be free to express them and to hold their partners accountable to them. That isn't manipulation, it is relationship 101.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Why haven't I seen you cry manipulation when a sex starved husband is advised to tell their wife they don't want to be in a sexless marriage and that they are willing to end the marriage over it? (I think it is reasonable advice in many cases BTW) Yes she wants him to change his behavior because he has crossed the line of one of her boundaries.
> 
> Is it any different than her saying stop the affair or I will divorce you? Would call that manipulating him into stopping an affair? I know you think porn is every man's God given right, but everyone has their boundaries, should be free to express them and to hold their partners accountable to them. That isn't manipulation, it is relationship 101.



If the sexless husband truly wants to remain married and isn’t really going to follow through when he says he will divorce her - then yes that is absolutely a manipulation that will backfire in the long run. 

If someone is having an affair and the BS threatens divorce but really doesn’t want to divorce and isn’t prepared to actually follow through, then that is a manipulation tactic as well. 

It’s not that divorce isn’t a justified or reasonable outcome to those circumstances, it’s in the intent and motive of the person issuing it. 

Is it an outcome to a behavior that they find unacceptable and not do not want to be party to anymore so they’ll walk away?

Or it is a threat and manipulative tactic to change and control someone else’s behavior to what you want them to do?


----------



## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> Is it an outcome to a behavior that they find unacceptable and not do not want to be party to anymore so they’ll walk away?
> 
> Or it is a threat and manipulative tactic to change and control someone else’s behavior to what you want them to do?


It all boils down to intent. I've seen nothing in the OP's posts that indicate she is wanting to manipulate or threaten her husband. It sounds to me like he's hurting her and she's struggling to communicate that to him. But I of course can't know that, because I can't read her mind. I wonder if you'd be this suspicious of her intent if the issue were something other than porn.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

TexasMom1216 said:


> It all boils down to intent. I've seen nothing in the OP's posts that indicate she is wanting to manipulate or threaten her husband. It sounds to me like he's hurting her and she's struggling to communicate that to him. But I of course can't know that, because I can't read her mind. I wonder if you'd be this suspicious of her intent if the issue were something other than porn.


I agree that nothing she has said PRIOR TO THIS MORNING indicates that she has any want or intent to manipulate or threaten him.

That is why I said I am giving her the benefit of the doubt until she can come back and clarify how she actually worded it with him. 

I was not suspicious of her intent it she made that statement this morning.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> I was not suspicious of her intent it she made that statement this morning.


I hope she comes back and answers. I mean, I could be wrong, it happens a lot. I also identify with her feelings, which makes me more sympathetic to her, so my reading of her post could be confirmation bias and projection. I'd really like an answer to this.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> If the sexless husband truly wants to remain married and isn’t really going to follow through when he says he will divorce her - then yes that is absolutely a manipulation that will backfire in the long run.
> 
> If someone is having an affair and the BS threatens divorce but really doesn’t want to divorce and isn’t prepared to actually follow through, then that is a manipulation tactic as well.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure if I understand your logic. Intent to follow through with a threat means it isn't manipulation, but not intending to follow through is manipulation. Is that right? If so, that is the most ridiculous and convoluted definitions I've ever seen for manipulation.

So, based on that you are saying she is manipulating him because you think she doesn't intend to follow through with the no sex threat? I thought you were saying that making the threat itself was manipulative, which I could kind of see how you could have that point of view. That apparently isn't the case though. I don't know how you got out of her comments that she isn't serious and will not follow through with cutting off sex.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I'm not sure if I understand your logic. Intent to follow through with a threat means it isn't manipulation, but not intending to follow through is manipulation. Is that right? If so, that is the most ridiculous and convoluted definitions I've ever seen for manipulation.
> 
> So, based on that you are saying she is manipulating him because you think she doesn't intend to follow through with the no sex threat? I thought you were saying that making the threat itself was manipulative, which I could kind of see how you could have that point of view. That apparently isn't the case though. I don't know how you got out of her comments that she isn't serious and will follow through with cutting off sex.


You’re correct, you are not following my logic.

I believe that you are willfully trying to be argumentative so I will longer keep talking to a brick wall.

I will respond to @Hawk249 when she clarifies.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> You’re correct, you are not following my logic.
> 
> I believe that you are willfully trying to be argumentative so I will longer keep talking to a brick wall.
> 
> I will respond to @Hawk249 when she clarifies.


Then you need to work on your communication skills, and don't be so thin skinned. I am not trying to be argumentative in anyway, even if you did say I had no balls or dignity in a prior post, lol.



oldshirt said:


> If the sexless husband truly wants to remain married *and isn’t really going to follow through when he says he will divorce her *- then yes that is absolutely a manipulation that will backfire in the long run.


If he says he will divorce AND really intends to follow through then it isn't manipulation?


oldshirt said:


> If someone is having an affair and the BS threatens divorce *but really doesn’t want to divorce and isn’t prepared to actually follow through, * then that is a manipulation tactic as well.


If the BS says they will divorce AND really intends to follow through then it isn't manipulation?


oldshirt said:


> Is it an outcome to a behavior that they find unacceptable and not *do not want to be party to anymore so they’ll walk away?*
> Or it is a threat and manipulative tactic to change and control someone else’s behavior to what you want them to do?


If she says she will cut off sex AND really means it then it isn't manipulation?

I'm asking these questions with all seriousness, because you aren't making sense to me. How can you not interrupt these comments to mean that the intent to follow through, or not, is what makes it manipulative or not? That is EXACTLY what every one of your examples had in common, lol. If it isn't the intent to follow through or not that makes it manipulation then what is it?


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## CoastieDadz93 (11 mo ago)

jorgegene said:


> Porn is destructive and very often poison to a marriage. Like alcohol, some people can handle it in moderation and some cant. Like other addictions (and that's what your husband has), it can't be
> Overcome by yourself. He needs to join a men's group that deals with this through church or HMO, or any other local group that deals with sex addiction and/or porn.


Totally agree, pretty positive it's what lead to my STBX wife to leave me, i am now seeing a sex therapist and pretty much sums up that using Porn is like Drinking away your problems.


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## Hawk249 (11 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> Well now, that doesn’t doesn’t sound manipulative or game playing at all LOL 😆
> 
> But to give you benefit of the doubt, how did you actually word that??


Lol I told him that if he wanted to choose it over what I can offer than that’s honestly his choice. But that he needs to know that I I wouldn’t be confident in continuing to give him to extra enthusiastic sex.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Hawk249 said:


> Lol I told him that if he wanted to choose it over what I can offer than that’s honestly his choice. But that he needs to know that I I wouldn’t be confident in continuing to give him to extra enthusiastic sex.


Good enough. Or tell him if he can't keep you happy/satisfied and have his personal time both, his personal time has to adjust. Or he's to be fully aware he's leaving you unfulfilled sexually, that may have consequences.

Sounds like you're on the right track and things will get better. Good job.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> Yes and @Hawk249 will also need to determine if this is something she can live with or not based on her values and moral compass and her temperaments based on the actual facts of her situation.
> 
> But you need to keep in mind that you and Hawks are different people with different values and temperaments and different criteria.
> 
> ...


I feel similar to Diana but my objections aren't religious or even moral in nature. I admit i really don't like the double standard where a lot of guys who get off to porn would be upset if their daughter was in it. Everyone in their is someone's son or daughter.

But it's a free country and that's another conversation. I think it's sad though because unless your wife is ok with porn something in the bond is going to be lost even if she decides its not a hill to die on.

OP may decide not to die on this hill but it is damaging their bond.

I've often thought of this in the context of emotional affairs. We're told that men bond through sex, and sexual energy used on porn isn't used on the marriage, so they are in effect using bonding chemicals elsewhere.

Women often seek emotional connection. If they find it through emotional affairs or even internet strangers the husband is told to go ballistic and file for divorce. This seems odd to me because men can use sexual energy elsewhere but women can't use emotional energy elsewhere.

How does this reconcile? If sexual energy going to porn is no big deal then men must not bond that much through sex and it must be more about getting off.

I don't believe that.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Hawk249 said:


> Lol I told him that if he wanted to choose it over what I can offer than that’s honestly his choice. But that he needs to know that I I wouldn’t be confident in continuing to give him to extra enthusiastic sex.



Ok fair enough.

Thank you for clarify that.


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## CoastieDadz93 (11 mo ago)

Hawk249 said:


> Lol I told him that if he wanted to choose it over what I can offer than that’s honestly his choice. But that he needs to know that I I wouldn’t be confident in continuing to give him to extra enthusiastic sex.





Hawk249 said:


> Lol I told him that if he wanted to choose it over what I can offer than that’s honestly his choice. But that he needs to know that I I wouldn’t be confident in continuing to give him to extra enthusiastic sex.


man, real sex vs virtual sex, who knew 🙈😳🤦🏻🙌🏻


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> Everyone in their is someone's son or daughter.


This is exactly what I have always thought about porn, prostitution, topless and nude clubs, etc.. A lot of people will claim the participants aren't victims, and that all of these vices are harmless. I always think that the woman trapped was once an innocent little girl playing with dolls. Surely her father and mother didn't long for their little girl to grow up to be a porn actress or hooker or taking her clothes off in front of a bunch of reprobates. If one of my female descendants were trapped in any of these, I would be trying to somehow rescue them from degradation.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Rus47 said:


> This is exactly what I have always thought about porn, prostitution, topless and nude clubs, etc.. A lot of people will claim the participants aren't victims, and that all of these vices are harmless. I always think that the woman trapped was once an innocent little girl playing with dolls. Surely her father and mother didn't long for their little girl to grow up to be a porn actress or hooker or taking her clothes off in front of a bunch of reprobates. If one of my female descendants were trapped in any of these, I would be trying to somehow rescue them from degradation.


Many of them probably didn't have loving caring parents sadly.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> I've often thought of this in the context of emotional affairs. *We're told that men bond through sex*, and sexual energy used on porn isn't used on the marriage, so they are in effect using bonding chemicals elsewhere.
> 
> *Women often seek emotional connection. If they find it through emotional affairs or even internet strangers the husband is told to go ballistic and file for divorce*. This seems odd to me because men can use sexual energy elsewhere but women can't use emotional energy elsewhere.
> 
> ...


There's definitely a double standard at play. This applies to porn, swinging, swapping, threesomes, all of it. It's either a meaningless physical release or it's not. I've had "casual sex," enough to know I don't like it. Now that I'm with my husband, it's not just sex, it's a bonding experience and something special that we share. If he's sharing it with others and it "doesn't mean anything," then it doesn't mean anything with me either. Can't have it both ways; either men bond through sex or they don't. Of course all this is just my opinion, and not all women feel the way I do about that. That's why you choose carefully when you marry and pick someone who shares your values.  That is also why I am not at all surprised that @Hawk249's husband quickly dismissed the porn once he understood truly what it meant to her.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> Many of them probably didn't have loving caring parents sadly.


Can't overstate the importance of GOOD FATHERS. They make ALL the difference. 💗


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

lifeistooshort said:


> I feel similar to Diana but my objections aren't religious or even moral in nature. I admit i really don't like the double standard where a lot of guys who get off to porn would be upset if their daughter was in it. Everyone in their is someone's son or daughter.
> 
> But it's a free country and that's another conversation. I think it's sad though because unless your wife is ok with porn something in the bond is going to be lost even if she decides its not a hill to die on.
> 
> ...


Good questions. 

Probably worth discussion in its own thread.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

TexasMom1216 said:


> There's definitely a double standard at play. This applies to porn, swinging, swapping, threesomes, all of it. It's either a meaningless physical release or it's not. I've had "casual sex," enough to know I don't like it. Now that I'm with my husband, it's not just sex, it's a bonding experience and something special that we share. If he's sharing it with others and it "doesn't mean anything," then it doesn't mean anything with me either. Can't have it both ways; either men bond through sex or they don't. Of course all this is just my opinion, and not all women feel the way I do about that. That's why you choose carefully when you marry and pick someone who shares your values.  That is also why I am not at all surprised that @Hawk249's husband quickly dismissed the porn once he understood truly what it meant to her.


I told this to Lifestooshort but some of this is worth discussion in its own thread.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Rus47 said:


> This is exactly what I have always thought about porn, prostitution, topless and nude clubs, etc.. A lot of people will claim the participants aren't victims, and that all of these vices are harmless. I always think that the woman trapped was once an innocent little girl playing with dolls. Surely her father and mother didn't long for their little girl to grow up to be a porn actress or hooker or taking her clothes off in front of a bunch of reprobates. If one of my female descendants were trapped in any of these, I would be trying to somehow rescue them from degradation.


Thank you!


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> I told this to Lifestooshort but some of this is worth discussion in its own thread.


Agreed. You should start one.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Agreed. You should start one.


No, you or @lifeistooshort should start it since you were the ones that raised those questions.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> No, you or @lifeistooshort should start it since you were the ones that raised those questions.


I don’t really have questions because I know what I believe. Plus I don’t think starting a thread would go well for me.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I don’t really have questions because I know what I believe. Plus I don’t think starting a thread would go well for me.


I will start one. I find the topic interesting and do not wish to thread jack.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> I feel similar to Diana but my objections aren't religious or even moral in nature. I admit i really don't like the double standard where a lot of guys who get off to porn would be upset if their daughter was in it. Everyone in their is someone's son or daughter.
> 
> But it's a free country and that's another conversation*. I think it's sad though because unless your wife is ok with porn something in the bond is going to be lost even if she decides its not a hill to die on.
> 
> ...


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I started another thread on this topic.

I'm very much looking forward to the discussion 🙂


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

This thread destroys the porn lie that men retreat to porn because the wife isn’t available, good enough in bed, or is just insecure.

Here we’ve got a confident lady, working hard to please, always available- and hubby STILL runs off to porn.

Bottomline- porn users ALWAYS want to blame someone else when in reality it’s just all on them!


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

CatholicDad said:


> This thread destroys the porn lie that men retreat to porn because the wife isn’t available, good enough in bed, or is just insecure.
> 
> Here we’ve got a confident lady, working hard to please, always available- and hubby STILL runs off to porn.
> 
> Bottomline- porn users ALWAYS want to blame someone else when in reality it’s just all on them!


I respectfully disagree.


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## CoastieDadz93 (11 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> There's definitely a double standard at play. This applies to porn, swinging, swapping, threesomes, all of it. It's either a meaningless physical release or it's not. I've had "casual sex," enough to know I don't like it. Now that I'm with my husband, it's not just sex, it's a bonding experience and something special that we share. If he's sharing it with others and it "doesn't mean anything," then it doesn't mean anything with me either. Can't have it both ways; either men bond through sex or they don't. Of course all this is just my opinion, and not all women feel the way I do about that. That's why you choose carefully when you marry and pick someone who shares your values.  That is also why I am not at all surprised that @Hawk249's husband quickly dismissed the porn once he understood truly what it meant to her.



Not to sound one standard, lol. I think majority of women experience sexual desire's on a higher emotional level and it lingers, unlike most men the emotional level gets built up and then once loaded off it goes back to what it was (like a reset button)...


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## crashdawg (11 mo ago)

Hopefully Hawk took a moment to find out what her husband is into. The label of "porn" is very generic. Gives it up, doesn't give it up... I read wouldn't write a blank check of "do anything they do" until you have a better handle on what he's into.

This is an opportunity to have very deep, very meaningful, very personal conversations that open each of you to the others private life. Please don't squander that opportunity by slapping a quick moral label on the door and slamming it shut. Learn about him. Learn about yourself. Learn about each other and use porn as education and tutorials, not as entertainment.


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## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> But to tell him no num-nums for him if he touches his winkie is manipulation because it’s disingenuous and a threat to manipulate his behavior.


I didn't get this ^^^ at all from what the OP posted. I don't think it's fair to be so dismissive of her concerns either.

Maybe it's just a good example of how differently men and women think. 

I never got the impression that she was trying to be his mother and tell him he's a bad boy if he touches his penis. My take on the topic is that she is feeling _less than_ because her husband is in fact not forsaking all others, as promised.


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## crashdawg (11 mo ago)

theloveofmylife said:


> I didn't get this ^^^ at all from what the OP posted. I don't think it's fair to be so dismissive of her concerns either.
> 
> Maybe it's just a good example of how differently men and women think.
> 
> I never got the impression that she was trying to be his mother and tell him he's a bad boy if he touches his penis. My take on the topic is that she is feeling _less than_ because her husband is in fact not forsaking all others, as promised.


Random question, what if he were to touch himself for her? If she were to send him things for that purpose and he used that to masturbate when she's not available would it still be cheating? Would it still be labeled porn or does her status as wife allow everyone to comfortably plant feet on a moral high ground? Technically it's pornographic material. Technically he's using it as designed. Does bonding to an idealized, filtered version of his own wife constitute cheating? Does it spice the experiences later or does it sour them? What if it leads to boosted confidence, self discovery, and self control?

Military wives would have a lot to say on that topic.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

theloveofmylife said:


> I didn't get this ^^^ at all from what the OP posted. I don't think it's fair to be so dismissive of her concerns either.
> 
> Maybe it's just a good example of how differently men and women think.
> 
> I never got the impression that she was trying to be his mother and tell him he's a bad boy if he touches his penis. My take on the topic is that she is feeling _less than_ because her husband is in fact not forsaking all others, as promised.


You have to read the whole exchange in its entirety.

I did not think that is what she actually meant either and was giving her the benefit of the doubt. 

It was the way @Hawk249 worded her post the next day that made me ask. 

She came back and clarified that that is not how she presented it to him.


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## pippo (Jan 12, 2022)

theloveofmylife said:


> My take on the topic is that she is feeling _less than_ because her husband is in fact not forsaking all others, as promised.


Forsaking and abandonment is one of the most hideous and actually immoral human behaviors. Why is it so evil to love another person? Can a man love 2 or 3 women? Can a beutiful woman love 2 or 3 men at the same time? Why does love have to be hoarded, possessed, and controlled, and be "forbidden" to be shared? Please explain, fellow members.


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## itskaren (Dec 28, 2011)

Hawk249 said:


> We’ve been together for 12 years. Married for 11. We had a great sex life in the beginning and then life happened. We still had great sex just not frequent. This went on for a few years until last fall when we sat down and had a long discussion on how I didn’t feel like he had anything left for me when he got home. He stepped up his game and I stepped up the sex, way up. I think we have maybe went a total of 5 nights without since October. We have really been exploring and trying new things. I asked him when I stepped it up to not watch porn. Well I’ve noticed these past few weeks he’s back to watching it. I ask about it and he tries to hide it. He does it once I’m asleep. I’ve told him he can wake me up and we can have sex during the night. Wake me up and tell me what you want from me. I’m game to try anything for him but yet he still feels the need to each porn. I’ve made myself sick this past weekend stressing about it. We finally had another talk last night and I told him again that it hurts my heart for him to watch it. Tell me what you want, tell me how I can fulfill your wants. Just want me and not porn. Let me be your desire. We’ve both lost almost 60 lbs this past year and he tells me how great I look but I don’t feel like it. When I know he watches porn it makes me feel worthless. I just needed to vent. I have no one else to discuss this with.


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## itskaren (Dec 28, 2011)

Hawk249 said:


> We’ve been together for 12 years. Married for 11. We had a great sex life in the beginning and then life happened. We still had great sex just not frequent. This went on for a few years until last fall when we sat down and had a long discussion on how I didn’t feel like he had anything left for me when he got home. He stepped up his game and I stepped up the sex, way up. I think we have maybe went a total of 5 nights without since October. We have really been exploring and trying new things. I asked him when I stepped it up to not watch porn. Well I’ve noticed these past few weeks he’s back to watching it. I ask about it and he tries to hide it. He does it once I’m asleep. I’ve told him he can wake me up and we can have sex during the night. Wake me up and tell me what you want from me. I’m game to try anything for him but yet he still feels the need to each porn. I’ve made myself sick this past weekend stressing about it. We finally had another talk last night and I told him again that it hurts my heart for him to watch it. Tell me what you want, tell me how I can fulfill your wants. Just want me and not porn. Let me be your desire. We’ve both lost almost 60 lbs this past year and he tells me how great I look but I don’t feel like it. When I know he watches porn it makes me feel worthless. I just needed to vent. I have no one else to discuss this with.


I’m sorry but I totally disagree. He loves you and wants to be with you. As long as him watching porn is not an addiction then I do t see it as a problem. Watch it together you might enjoy it too.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

pippo said:


> Forsaking and abandonment is one of the most hideous and actually immoral human behaviors. Why is it so evil to love another person? Can a man love 2 or 3 women? Can a beutiful woman love 2 or 3 men at the same time? Why does love have to be hoarded, possessed, and controlled, and be "forbidden" to be shared? Please explain, fellow members.


Start you own thread to discuss loving more than one person. This is a thread start by one woman who feels less than because her husband watches porn. Please don't threadjack or down play her life by breaking into your own esoteric question. Lots of people will be happy to answer you in your own thread.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

itskaren said:


> I’m sorry but I totally disagree. He loves you and wants to be with you. As long as him watching porn is not an addiction then I do t see it as a problem. Watch it together you might enjoy it too.


You may disagree but it doesn't change her feelings. She has a right to not want to view porn the same way you do. She doesn't want her husband looking at naked women. She doesn't want to look at naked people.


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## crashdawg (11 mo ago)

pippo said:


> Forsaking and abandonment is one of the most hideous and actually immoral human behaviors. Why is it so evil to love another person? Can a man love 2 or 3 women? Can a beutiful woman love 2 or 3 men at the same time? Why does love have to be hoarded, possessed, and controlled, and be "forbidden" to be shared? Please explain, fellow members.


Likely people will go the "vows" and "sanctity of marriage" route. My question is why repress this opportunity in hopes of making it disappear? Why force closed what is essentially an intamate window into precisely what your lover finds so incredibly erotic? Talk about powerful. You learn how to send them through the roof. At a minimum view it as an opportunity and discuss it. Maybe you try what you see and send your bond into the stratosphere. Maybe you discover positions and techniques that turn you on and it's his turn to compromise and try something. Slamming that window shut seems wasteful and counter intuitive. It's there, it's open, use it.

Group sex is a completely different topic. To each their own.


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## Rooster2015 (Jun 12, 2015)

Hawk249 said:


> We’ve been together for 12 years. Married for 11. We had a great sex life in the beginning and then life happened. We still had great sex just not frequent. This went on for a few years until last fall when we sat down and had a long discussion on how I didn’t feel like he had anything left for me when he got home. He stepped up his game and I stepped up the sex, way up. I think we have maybe went a total of 5 nights without since October. We have really been exploring and trying new things. I asked him when I stepped it up to not watch porn. Well I’ve noticed these past few weeks he’s back to watching it. I ask about it and he tries to hide it. He does it once I’m asleep. I’ve told him he can wake me up and we can have sex during the night. Wake me up and tell me what you want from me. I’m game to try anything for him but yet he still feels the need to each porn. I’ve made myself sick this past weekend stressing about it. We finally had another talk last night and I told him again that it hurts my heart for him to watch it. Tell me what you want, tell me how I can fulfill your wants. Just want me and not porn. Let me be your desire. We’ve both lost almost 60 lbs this past year and he tells me how great I look but I don’t feel like it. When I know he watches porn it makes me feel worthless. I just needed to vent. I have no one else to discuss this with.


I’m not sure their are many wIves who would make the offers you have in this situation. If he blows this it’s all on him. Even if he didn’t watch porn the offers are over the top.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> You may disagree but it doesn't change her feelings. She has a right to not want to view porn the same way you do. She doesn't want her husband looking at naked women. She doesn't want to look at naked people.


I’m finding it interesting that the pro-porn people tell anti-porn hardliners to mind their own business and let people be themselves and not be so judgmental, but when a woman doesn’t view extracurricular sex as a man’s right, when a woman wants sex to be something special she shares only with her spouse, those same people shame her by telling her she’s a prude and needs to “understand her husband’s needs” and try to convince her she’s lesser and controlling and wrong. The right to “be yourself” stops cold when you disagree with them about your own relationship. Before I came here I never realized I had ruined my husband’s life by asking him to be faithful to me… 🙄


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## itskaren (Dec 28, 2011)

Anastasia6 said:


> You may disagree but it doesn't change her feelings. She has a right to not want to view porn the same way you do. She doesn't want her husband looking at naked women. She doesn't want to look at naked people.


I guess we’ll agree to disagree!


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## crashdawg (11 mo ago)

Anastasia6 said:


> You may disagree but it doesn't change her feelings. She has a right to not want to view porn the same way you do. She doesn't want her husband looking at naked women. She doesn't want to look at naked people.


So... they have an honest open communication where she expresses her dislike, he expresses what specifically he's into, they make a decision as to what to do so it not a blank check... OR... Never mind porn = bad door slams shut, lots of resentment...

WHY are those the only two options? Why is this the one subject where open communication is literally frowned upon even if there's a viable chance of strengthening a marriage bond?


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## crashdawg (11 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I’m finding it interesting that the pro-porn people tell anti-porn hardliners to mind their own business and let people be themselves and not be so judgmental, but when a woman doesn’t view extracurricular sex as a man’s right, when a woman wants sex to be something special she shares only with her spouse, those same people shame her by telling her she’s a prude and needs to “understand her husband’s needs” and try to convince her she’s lesser and controlling and wrong. The right to “be yourself” stops cold when you disagree with them about your own relationship. Before I came here I never realized I had ruined my husband’s life by asking him to be faithful to me… 🙄


 understand her husband's needs... no... understand what her husband desires and strive to meet or exceed that desire as he does the same for her... yes.

Quick question if the car breaks down do you go to the mechanic or do you go to the IT guy so he can disable YouTube so your husband can't watch a video and learn how to do it?

For literally every other subject in life it's either ask a professional, or ask an expert, or watch a professional "how to" video. Except sex... if the topic is sex just go in blind, roll the dice, hope, and pray.

Yes there's disgusting scrap out there but an over generalization and branding all of it might prevent couples from learning, growing, and understanding each other.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

crashdawg said:


> understand her husband's needs... no... understand what her husband desires and strive to meet or exceed that desire as he does the same for her... yes.
> 
> Quick question if the car breaks down do you go to the mechanic or do you go to the IT guy so he can disable YouTube so your husband can't watch a video and learn how to do it?
> 
> ...


See what I mean? I’m a close minded prude if I have standards for marital fidelity. I haven’t even said where I stand with porn, just that I respect other people’s right to set their own standards.🙄


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

pippo said:


> Forsaking and abandonment is one of the most hideous and actually immoral human behaviors. Why is it so evil to love another person? Can a man love 2 or 3 women? Can a beutiful woman love 2 or 3 men at the same time? Why does love have to be hoarded, possessed, and controlled, and be "forbidden" to be shared? Please explain, fellow members.


I’d ask the same. Why does a marriage in which two people take vows to “forsake all others” and “in sickness and in health” have to corrupted by selfish people that decide they can no longer be satisfied by the person they vowed and professed their love for.

Porn isn’t even about love. It’s hubby getting his jollies and forsaking his sacred oath.

If someone can’t keep their vow/oath/word- maybe they aren’t marriage material.

I mean if hubby wants to share his love- maybe he could go work in a food kitchen and serve homeless people some “love” called lunch. No one is hoarding his love.

The kind of “love” you’re talking about spreads STDs. 😆


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## crashdawg (11 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> See what I mean? I’m a close minded prude if I have standards for marital fidelity. I haven’t even said where I stand with porn, just that I respect other people’s right to set their own standards.🙄


Thank you for quickly judging and dismissing me without discussing my comment.

At no point did I broach the subject of marital fidelity nor did I judge you nor have I asked your stance on porn. I fully respect individuals rights to set their own terms of what they deem acceptable in a marriage.

I'm also willing to express that life is an opportunity to learn. It's an opportunity to grow. And I would honestly hope that if something like porn surfaces in a marriage it's discussed, not repressed. Repression just allows it to fester hidden. If it's discussed it's an opportunity to grow as a couple, to be stronger as a couple.

The key to my comment that has gone untouched or unnoticed is "as a couple". For any marriage to survive it requires honest open communication and trust. If her husband turned to porn there's something he's specifically attracted to and she has a golden opportunity to learn a great deal about him and his desires. Maybe she into that, maybe not, but cutting the blank "I'll do anything" check really isn't the answer either.

To brand all porn and toss it is tossing out both trash and tools. There is an opportunity here for them... as a couple...


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## crashdawg (11 mo ago)

CatholicDad said:


> I’d ask the same. Why does a marriage in which two people take vows to “forsake all others” and “in sickness and in health” have to corrupted by selfish people that decide they can no longer be satisfied by the person they vowed and professed their love for.
> 
> Porn isn’t even about love. It’s hubby getting his jollies and forsaking his sacred oath.
> 
> ...


Marriage is sacred. It is a vow. But that vow is to your partner not your religion or even your community. That vow means you join as a couple. You make decisions as a couple. You exist as a couple. If one person choses selfishness the marriage unravels. If the couple choses to expand their love then it is their choice, and based on that vow their choice should be respected irrespective of how you or I or anyone else feels.

It's not my scene. It's not something I'm interested in. But who am I to judge and slander what happens in someone else's marriage? Do not assume that a loving couple that expanded did so out of selfishness. Do not assume they are unsafe.

And service to the poor should be done irrespective of marital status. That is neither a joke nor funny. Everyone falls on hard times. Have a little compassion.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

pippo said:


> Forsaking and abandonment is one of the most hideous and actually immoral human behaviors. Why is it so evil to love another person? Can a man love 2 or 3 women? Can a beutiful woman love 2 or 3 men at the same time? Why does love have to be hoarded, possessed, and controlled, and be "forbidden" to be shared? Please explain, fellow members.


If a person wants to live a life with multiple partners, they should be honest enough to let the person they are marrying know that this is the way they want to live. If they promise to be monogamous and then cheat, they are just not an honest person. They are abusive of the person they manipulated into marrying them with false claims.

For most people, marriage is about building a life together and potentially raising children together. When a person cheats, it introduces a lot of confusion and problems to the relationship.


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## crashdawg (11 mo ago)

EleGirl said:


> If a person wants to live a life with multiple partners, they should be honest enough to let the person they are marrying know that this is the way they want to live. If they promise to be monogamous and then cheat, they are just not an honest person. They are abusive of the person they manipulated into marrying them with false claims.
> 
> For most people, marriage is about building a life together and potentially raising children together. When a person cheats, it introduces a lot of confusion and problems to the relationship.


Provided that's a direction the individual actively wants to explore shouldn't that conversation happen pre-marriage? I'd think any talk of open marriage or swinging or group would be known long before the vows are taken. On the other hand if it's a couples decision (actual couples decision not coercion by one partner) then would it matter when the discussion happened? Is it breaking vows or is it expanding a relationship? And if it is selfish manipulation the answer is obviously a break of vows. In that case I assume the marriage would unravel.

As I said before not my scene but it's an interesting question.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

crashdawg said:


> Provided that's a direction the individual actively wants to explore shouldn't that conversation happen pre-marriage? I'd think any talk of open marriage or swinging or group would be known long before the vows are taken. On the other hand if it's a couples decision (actual couples decision not coercion by one partner) then would it matter when the discussion happened? Is it breaking vows or is it expanding a relationship? And if it is selfish manipulation the answer is obviously a break of vows. In that case I assume the marriage would unravel.
> 
> As I said before not my scene but it's an interesting question.


Looks like I was not clear. Absolutely, it should be discussed long before the wedding.

If a person decides after marriage that they want to do this, then they should treat their spouse with respect and openly discuss it. It might lead to divorce, but at least it's honest.


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## Jeffsmith35 (Apr 8, 2021)

There's a difference between personal pleasuring and pleasure as a committed couple. The personal pleasuring starts at or before age 12 and greatly influences how that person will act once they are in a relationship. It's probably not realistic to require each partner to only use the other for every sexual need, as long as the partners are meeting each other's needs. Sometimes you just want to "get that poison out of your system". To require your partner to end all personal pleasuring and replace it with sex with you means that you are requiring them to use you as a release for every urge to masturbate. Perhaps they don't want to use you as a masturbatory tool out of respect for you, but simultaneously feel like you want to control their pleasure to an unreasonable degree when they just want to rub one out in the simplest and least complex way possible. This would feel overly restrictive to me. But Women and Men are very different in this area. Because of that, they have to work out a compromise, in a very sensitive and difficult to discuss area of their individual psyches.


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## Jeffsmith35 (Apr 8, 2021)

Maybe a graphic example (apologies in advance): Tell him that you'll make him a deal: Anytime he feels like masturbating, notify you and you will make him orgasm in the fastest and least complex way, and make it more pleasurable than any orgasm he could achieve by masturbating. And let him decide his preference for how you do it. And don't be offended by what he asks. Have him write it on a piece of paper if that helps. From a man's perspective: If my partner offered this, and removed all baggage from it to essentially pare it down to a sex act, I'd say yes.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Jeffsmith35 said:


> Maybe a graphic example (apologies in advance): Tell him that you'll make him a deal: Anytime he feels like masturbating, notify you and you will make him orgasm in the fastest and least complex way, and make it more pleasurable than any orgasm he could achieve by masturbating. And let him decide his preference for how you do it. And don't be offended by what he asks. Have him write it on a piece of paper if that helps. From a man's perspective: If my partner offered this, and removed all baggage from it to essentially pare it down to a sex act, I'd say yes.


She pretty much did this. About halfway through the thread, she explained that she's spoken to her husband and was very candid with how it made her feel. He decided looking at porn wasn't worth hurting the woman he loves and is going to take her up on her offer of availability. 

This was never about control. He was always free to do as he liked. She was candid, honest and not threatening, and clearly explained how it affected her and how it would continue to affect her. He has every right to prefer porn to his wife, and she has every right to feel lesser because of it. She did the right thing and explained how she felt. She never said she'd "cut him off" or anything like that, either. It very understandably eroded her self confidence. No one wants to be someone's "plan B."


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## Jeffsmith35 (Apr 8, 2021)

My bad...I skipped ahead without reading the whole thread. Good that it worked out!


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

pippo said:


> Forsaking and abandonment is one of the most hideous and actually immoral human behaviors. Why is it so evil to love another person? Can a man love 2 or 3 women? Can a beutiful woman love 2 or 3 men at the same time? Why does love have to be hoarded, possessed, and controlled, and be "forbidden" to be shared? Please explain, fellow members.


When we marry we promise to be faithful and make a committment to our spouse. 
Forsaking all others is anything but 'hideous and immoral'. Its cheating and going back on committments made that is what you describe. 
I suggest you don't get married if you can't be faithful.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I’m finding it interesting that the pro-porn people tell anti-porn hardliners to mind their own business and let people be themselves and not be so judgmental, but when a woman doesn’t view extracurricular sex as a man’s right, when a woman wants sex to be something special she shares only with her spouse, those same people shame her by telling her she’s a prude and needs to “understand her husband’s needs” and try to convince her she’s lesser and controlling and wrong. The right to “be yourself” stops cold when you disagree with them about your own relationship. Before I came here I never realized I had ruined my husband’s life by asking him to be faithful to me… 🙄


Or they say to watch it with them. 🤔☹


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

crashdawg said:


> Thank you for quickly judging and dismissing me without discussing my comment.
> 
> At no point did I broach the subject of marital fidelity nor did I judge you nor have I asked your stance on porn. I fully respect individuals rights to set their own terms of what they deem acceptable in a marriage.
> 
> ...


Why would we want to learn from porn? Its the last place I would go to if I wanted a healthy, faithful marriage and enjoyable sex life.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

pippo said:


> Frankly, and with no all due respect, this thread has included and accepted all kinds of replies, many times which veer in a different track, much like a live conversation in one's own living room. Without rigid "rules" to which you are implored to subject me. Much like rigid rules of marriage, with all its dos and donts. Excuse me for offering a different opinion, obvious which you are very uncomfortable accepting.
> 
> You by default, are uncomfortable with the idea that a person can love more than one in his lifetime. Your love apparently "runs out" after loving one person. Thats my point- dont try to deflect again and again with your spin on starting a different thread.
> 
> And if you are included in the "lots of people" you simply could have replied to my post- you simply could have answered rather than have taken the road you have. And that goes for the others that applauded your post.


The only rules we have are to treat each other with love and respect and be faithful to each other. That means not bringing others into the marriage either through porn or in person.

As suggested maybe start a new thread.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> Why would we want to learn from porn? Its the last place I would go to if I wanted a healthy, faithful marriage and enjoyable sex life.


I will never look like a porn star again. All I can learn from porn is that I am old and no longer attractive.


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## crashdawg (11 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> Why would we want to learn from porn? Its the last place I would go to if I wanted a healthy, faithful marriage and enjoyable sex life.


Why would a couple go to a professional certified sex therapist who in turn recommends specific tutorial videos? Why would a golf enthusiast spend a fortune to attend a weekend golf clinic? Why would a basketball coach send an entire team to "the free throw doctor"?

I know we've discussed this in detail in another thread but not all porn is the same. It's not your thing, I respect that (and have continued to do so). Every marriage is different and for those seeking to do more to please their partner there are resources out there.


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## crashdawg (11 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I will never look like a porn star again. All I can learn from porn is that I am old and no longer attractive.


Some individuals feel the same about going to the beach or the pool.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

crashdawg said:


> Some individuals feel the same about going to the beach or the pool.


Yes, those places make me feel bad about myself too. How helpful of you to point that out. 🙄


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## crashdawg (11 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Yes, those places make me feel bad about myself too. How helpful of you to point that out. 🙄


Despite the ill will that has consistently been posted towards me on this board by several members, hitting your self esteem wasn't my intent. I am sorry if that's how it was interpreted.

A lot of people suffer from social anxiety, body image issues, self esteem and self worth. I personally know how it feels. No matter what others say, what's in your head always chips away at it. It's hard.

Like I said that wasn't my intent and I am sorry.


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## 343359 (Apr 8, 2020)

Hawk249 said:


> We’ve been together for 12 years. Married for 11. We had a great sex life in the beginning and then life happened. We still had great sex just not frequent. This went on for a few years until last fall when we sat down and had a long discussion on how I didn’t feel like he had anything left for me when he got home. He stepped up his game and I stepped up the sex, way up. I think we have maybe went a total of 5 nights without since October. We have really been exploring and trying new things. I asked him when I stepped it up to not watch porn. Well I’ve noticed these past few weeks he’s back to watching it. I ask about it and he tries to hide it. He does it once I’m asleep. I’ve told him he can wake me up and we can have sex during the night. Wake me up and tell me what you want from me. I’m game to try anything for him but yet he still feels the need to each porn. I’ve made myself sick this past weekend stressing about it. We finally had another talk last night and I told him again that it hurts my heart for him to watch it. Tell me what you want, tell me how I can fulfill your wants. Just want me and not porn. Let me be your desire. We’ve both lost almost 60 lbs this past year and he tells me how great I look but I don’t feel like it. When I know he watches porn it makes me feel worthless. I just needed to vent. I have no one else to discuss this with.


first off you are enough! You are beautiful and amazing! You are not the cause of his porn addiction! I was in a similar relationship. I understand that disgusting feeling you feel in the pit of your stomach! The feeling of not being enough. The feeling of your self esteem slowly dropping! Even when you give your best it doesn’t feel like it’s enough! He use to do it at work and in the shower behind my back and we had a great sex life but he was addicted to porn! He tried to stop because he seen how it was breaking me but he couldn’t stop! I walked away from the relationship! But I came across some other friends who was addicted to porn and I don’t know if you believe in the power of fasting and prayer. But it helped save my friends marriage! It was a struggle but God delivered him from it!


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## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

crashdawg said:


> Would it still be labeled porn or does her status as wife allow everyone to comfortably plant feet on a moral high ground?


A good question for its own thread.


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## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

Jeffsmith35 said:


> To require your partner to end all personal pleasuring and replace it with sex with you means that you are requiring them to use you as a release for every urge to masturbate. Perhaps they don't want to use you as a masturbatory tool out of respect for you, but simultaneously feel like you want to control their pleasure to an unreasonable degree when they just want to rub one out in the simplest and least complex way possible. This would feel overly restrictive to me.


I don't think that's the case here, but you bring up a good point. This would be overly restrictive, yet I don't think it's a control issue in this instance.

The only time I feel a spouse has a right to ask the other person to stop self-pleasuring, is when it impacts the other person's needs being met. IOW, if you're sex starved, you're not going to be happy that your spouse is rubbing one out while you "starve."

OTOH, you can ask them to stop, but you can't make them. You can ask them to stop using porn, but you can't make them stop replaying the images that are etched into their minds either.* So, yeah, attempting to control someone in this type of situation will clearly not work.

_this may in fact be why people seem to think a man is still using porn even if he has stopped actively watching it... he has an instant replay in his mind, so she can still sense that she's being compared to someone else._



Jeffsmith35 said:


> Women and Men are very different in this area.


Understatement.


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## crashdawg (11 mo ago)

theloveofmylife said:


> A good question for its own thread.


It's been discussed in several threads. The consensus appears to be that it's an uncomfortable question that guts a straw man argument.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

crashdawg said:


> It's been discussed in several threads. The consensus appears to be that it's an uncomfortable question that guts a straw man argument.


Not by everyone, just FYI.


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## crashdawg (11 mo ago)

LisaDiane said:


> Not by everyone, just FYI.


Actual logical discussion would be greatly appreciated. I enjoy the discourse.


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## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

crashdawg said:


> It's been discussed in several threads.


Do you have any links handy?

Not sure what the strawman thing is about, but I think I'll pass on that.


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## crashdawg (11 mo ago)

theloveofmylife said:


> Do you have any links handy?
> 
> Not sure what the strawman thing is about, but I think I'll pass on that.


Minor thread jack then back to normal.

The straw man argument here is that you shouldn't look at porn or participate in porn because that's someone's sister / someone's daughter. It's a great way of humanizing those involved but it unravels when a loving husband and wife decide to film each other to watch later. Maybe that media remains private. Maybe it gets leaked. Maybe a family stumbles upon it and the wife... is someone's daughter.

It became a frantic splitting of hairs as a side attempted to say porn is bad but husband and wife home movies are ok and somehow not porn. Most of it's on the sexual energy thread oldshirt started. Not sure how to link on this tablet.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

crashdawg said:


> Why would a couple go to a professional certified sex therapist who in turn recommends specific tutorial videos? Why would a golf enthusiast spend a fortune to attend a weekend golf clinic? Why would a basketball coach send an entire team to "the free throw doctor"?
> 
> I know we've discussed this in detail in another thread but not all porn is the same. It's not your thing, I respect that (and have continued to do so). Every marriage is different and for those seeking to do more to please their partner there are resources out there.


You can have good sex without using porn.


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## MiaMia0930 (11 mo ago)

While I know a few others are saying, “it’s no big deal, as long as he’s still having sex with you.” I used to be on that bandwagon, too…and it still changed our dynamic. When we did have sex, he was void and empty, a million miles away. He no longer “wanted” me, he just played a part. His eyes began to wander more when we were out together. He stopped looking at me and stopped complimenting me. He changed a lot. Now, I don’t look like a typical porn star, but I’m definitely a good looking woman… in fact, he opened up to me about how his own friends expressed “how did you get her?!” So, to be rejected and/or treated like a chore, I finally told him, “if you can’t stop, then I see no reason to remain in this marriage. I won’t be married to someone that doesn’t value me.” That seems to have helped (for now), but it’s only been a few months. Either way, he now knows where I stand. I suggest you ask yourself “if he won’t stop, is this something I can live with for 50+ years?” I couldn’t and wouldn’t, but you have to answer for you.


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## MiaMia0930 (11 mo ago)

May I ask, why couldn’t he just request material from her to jerk his “winkie” to? Would that not be more acceptable, even more pleasing than some random woman on a screen who he has ZERO CHANCES with? I’d imagine it would be much better to receive content from someone you can actually go to and enjoy. The more men I speak with, the more I realize that they are certainly odd creatures.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

MiaLancer69 said:


> May I ask, why couldn’t he just request material from her to jerk his “winkie” to? Would that not be more acceptable, even more pleasing than some random woman on a screen who he has ZERO CHANCES with? I’d imagine it would be much better to receive content from someone you can actually go to and enjoy. The more men I speak with, the more I realize that they are certainly odd creatures.


If she is like my wife, she will never consent to having a photo or video of her naked. In this internet age the risk of it getting out in the public is too great for a lot of people.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> If she is like my wife, she will never consent to having a photo or video of her naked. In this internet age the risk of it getting out in the public is too great for a lot of people.


Smart. The internet is written in pen, not pencil. Nothing is EVER erased.


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## MiaMia0930 (11 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> If she is like my wife, she will never consent to having a photo or video of her naked. In this internet age the risk of it getting out in the public is too great for a lot of people.


If I can’t trust my husband not to share those things, then I believe there’s more problems than just porn. Other people can’t access his phone, and even if they could, those items are still kept in areas that aren’t visible without knowing where to look.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

MiaLancer69 said:


> If I can’t trust my husband not to share those things, then I believe there’s more problems than just porn. Other people can’t access his phone, and even if they could, those items are still kept in areas that aren’t visible without knowing where to look.


That all sounds great in theory, but the reality is it is very difficult to be positive that you can keep something out of the cloud. Does his phone auto backup to the cloud, for example? Most do. Yes there are ways they can be prevented from uploading, but it is not 100% foolproof. It isn't a matter of trust with my wife, she trusts me 110% and I can say for certain I would never in a million years share nudes of her. What she doesn't trust is technology's ability to keep something that private, private. How many celebs have had their SM accounts, cloud accounts and phones hacked and their pics end up on the internet?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

MiaLancer69 said:


> If I can’t trust my husband not to share those things, then I believe there’s more problems than just porn. Other people can’t access his phone, and even if they could, those items are still kept in areas that aren’t visible without knowing where to look.


It wouldn’t be that he shared them on purpose. Phones are backed up to cloud. If you have Google storage, your files are backed up to the cloud. If you have texted a picture to someone, that picture is on a server somewhere, backed up. Now the chances anyone would ever see them is crazy remote. Know how celebrities get their intimate photos hacked? By sending them to someone. You have to understand that nothing that touches the internet is private. Nothing. Ever.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

MiaLancer69 said:


> If I can’t trust my husband not to share those things, then I believe there’s more problems than just porn. Other people can’t access his phone, and even if they could, those items are still kept in areas that aren’t visible without knowing where to look.


If he ever takes it in for a repair, all bets are off. We have a member whose husband had access to phones that women would bring in for repair and he copied their sim cards for his own enjoyment. She found them in his bag. Of course it is illegal and no, she didn't address it with him because she is desperate to hang onto his degenerate ass.


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## NotSoAverageJoe (May 12, 2021)

If you're on a shared wifi network, people can hack into your phone. As others said, if it's backed up to the cloud, they can be hacked.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

MiaLancer69 said:


> If I can’t trust my husband not to share those things, then I believe there’s more problems than just porn. Other people can’t access his phone, and even if they could, those items are still kept in areas that aren’t visible without knowing where to look.


And nearly everyone says... I never thought I'd be divorced. Then during the divorce nearly everyone says... I didn't think he could ever act like that. I don't even know who he is.....

I agree you should be able to trust your husband. But there are considerations that are just smart. Same with it accidently getting out or stolen or backed up or phone traded in when you think it's erased or going to be erased and it's not. There are recovery software too.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> If she is like my wife, she will never consent to having a photo or video of her naked. In this internet age the risk of it getting out in the public is too great for a lot of people.


Once you take a photo or video with your phone, it IS available to anyone who knows how to look for it. Only an idiot would allow it. If you're married to someone, they can see you naked in person. They don't need a shrine on their phone -- and if anyone thinks they aren't showing SOMEONE, they are naive, just naive. Zip it up, people. Don't share it with the world.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Once you take a photo or video with your phone, it IS available to anyone who knows how to look for it. Only an idiot would allow it. If you're married to someone, they can see you naked in person. They don't need a shrine on their phone -- and if anyone thinks they aren't showing SOMEONE, they are naive, just naive. Zip it up, people. Don't share it with the world.


TRUTH. Now, the chances that someone would look for this person's specific naked pictures is very remote, we're talking about a microscopic dust particle in a haystack. All these people sending naked pictures to their spouses will probably never experience any issue with it. But the truth is, those pictures are out on the internet. They're out there. Will anyone find them? Probably not, no one is looking, but they ARE out there. 

I also cannot imagine someone being irresponsible enough to keep naked spouse pictures on their phone and not delete them and clear the deleted items. That is crazytown follies, right there. Your phone could be hacked (en masse, it happens), you could lose your phone (think that code is foolproof? nah), or you could be showing a friend pictures of your new smoker or your new boat or that fish you caught and there's Molly's jollies right there for your buddy Earl to see. Surely no one is doing that. Surely not.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> TRUTH. Now, the chances that someone would look for this person's specific naked pictures is very remote, we're talking about a microscopic dust particle in a haystack. All these people sending naked pictures to their spouses will probably never experience any issue with it. But the truth is, those pictures are out on the internet. They're out there. Will anyone find them? Probably not, no one is looking, but they ARE out there.
> 
> I also cannot imagine someone being irresponsible enough to keep naked spouse pictures on their phone and not delete them and clear the deleted items. That is crazytown follies, right there. Your phone could be hacked (en masse, it happens), you could lose your phone (think that code is foolproof? nah), or you could be showing a friend pictures of your new smoker or your new boat or that fish you caught and there's Molly's jollies right there for your buddy Earl to see. Surely no one is doing that. Surely not.


You know who's looking for whatever they can find? Porn sites. Do you think they're not out there searching for free material?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

MiaLancer69 said:


> If I can’t trust my husband not to share those things, then I believe there’s more problems than just porn. Other people can’t access his phone, and even if they could, those items are still kept in areas that aren’t visible without knowing where to look.


You do realize that many people, and especially nefarious actors do know EXACTLY where to look on a phone. 

I'm not saying yes, no, etc, but knowing how to get to hidden location pics is more commonplace that ever.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> You know who's looking for whatever they can find? Porn sites. Do you think they're not out there searching for free material?


Oh, gosh, I didn't think about that. Wow. That is a really good point. Yikes. Yeah, no pictures. Risky.


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## MiaMia0930 (11 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> That all sounds great in theory, but the reality is it is very difficult to be positive that you can keep something out of the cloud. Does his phone auto backup to the cloud, for example? Most do. Yes there are ways they can be prevented from uploading, but it is not 100% foolproof. It isn't a matter of trust with my wife, she trusts me 110% and I can say for certain I would never in a million years share nudes of her. What she doesn't trust is technology's ability to keep something that private, private. How many celebs have had their SM accounts, cloud accounts and phones hacked and their pics end up on the internet?


Ah, I guess that’s where I differ. If it gets out, it gets out. Is it ideal? No. However, neither is having a spouse that can’t get it up because they watched too much porn 😅 so I have to pick my battles.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

MiaLancer69 said:


> Ah, I guess that’s where I differ. If it gets out, it gets out. Is it ideal? No. However, neither is having a spouse that can’t get it up because they watched too much porn 😅 so I have to pick my battles.


If you don't care about it getting out, then why would you care if your husband shared them with someone else?


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## MiaMia0930 (11 mo ago)

Lol, I never said I would. I said, “I trust that he wouldn’t.” There’s a difference. I see no shame in the human body. We all, essentially, have the same parts.


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