# Cyber cheating



## BetrayedandAlone (Apr 17, 2011)

Hello, I am new to this forum. I just signed up because of what is going on in my relationship. I'm sad and scared and have no one to talk to. I figured, with a sense of irony, that I could turn to people online for some advice.

My boyfriend and I have been together for over 6 years and living together for most of that. Our relationship has been very serious and we've been talking about getting married and having kids. About two years ago we moved across the country together for a new job for me. He has a new job here as well that he is very happy with. Ok, so onto the problem....

In 2007 I found out, through snooping, that he was having multiple online affairs with women. Through his chat history, I found out that this was going on for our entire relationship. Many of them were random people that I guess he met through chat rooms/personals sites, but some were also people he knew, like ex-girlfriends. He was having cyber-sex with these women and asking them for naked pictures of themselves. He had an entire directory full of naked pictures (not porn) of women that he had collected over the years. I was incredibly hurt and confronted him. He felt bad and said he would stop and never do it again. He understood that I hurt but didn't think it was as bad as cheating. Stupid me decided to forgive him way too easily and believe him. For a while he was understanding of my need to talk about it but then it began to irritate him and he thought I should just get over it. 

Fast forward a few years. I have had my suspicions off and on that he was having an inappropriate relationship with one of his exes. I have confronted him about this a few times and he swore up and down that nothing was going on and that I was being irrational. I told him that he needed to tell me if anything was going on so that we could work through it. So, my snooping started up again. A couple of weeks ago, I read a chat that he had with her that was incredibly explicit. It was basically online sex. She had clearly sent him some nude pictures of herself masturbating. (by the way, she is married and has a child). He talked to her about me and about his dissatisfaction with me. He told her that if he had the chance again he would not turn her down in person.

Needless to say, I was beyond words upset. I confronted my boyfriend again and told him what I found and that I was leaving. That he had cheated on me constantly for 6 years and lied to me. He feels awful and says he wants to stop but doesn't know how. We have seen a couple of counselors and he wants to see a therapist on his own as well. We are sleeping in separate rooms at the moment and just being around him makes me upset. I'm pretty depressed and just don't know what to do. I feel like I should leave him, that he would never change. He has told me that if I left him he would quite his job and move away because he wouldn't be able to handle seeing me. He swears he wants to stop but I don't know how to believe him or if I could ever trust him again (he's good at covering his track, this was a slip on his part...). Everything I have read online says not to leave right away, to give it some time, but I just don't know. I'm completely torn. We have had a lot of conversations about it and I feel like he blames me to some degree. We have had an abysmal sex life from the beginning, but I am starting to wonder if that is because of his other activities rather than the other way around. If he's been doing these things the whole time we've been together then I feel like I never had a chance. 

I'm not sure what I am looking for here. Maybe advice? Maybe commiseration? Perhaps some of you have been through something like this? Is there any hope or should I just get out now?


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## Mrs Chai (Sep 14, 2010)

Yikes, this jumps out to me as a lot of emotional manipulation and abuse going on here. However, I'm not much of an expert in areas of counseling people. 

You are not alone. Sadly, things like this happen every day, which is why this forum exists! But there is a lot of information and support to be found here, if you're willing to look.

I would spend some time browsing the forums for others who have faced similar situations as yours - especially the Coping with Infedility forum. Hopefully one of our wonderful counselors will see this and be able to help you.



> Is there any hope or should I just get out now?


That should be a question you should ask yourself. Is there anything here worth saving? Would you be able to continue to live your life with this man? Marry him? Risk having children with him? This is not something that just goes away, and as it sounds like a serious addiction with him - it's like drugs. He needs to be strong and work against that temptation for the rest of his life.

Is he strong enough to do that?


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## BetrayedandAlone (Apr 17, 2011)

Mrs Chai said:


> That should be a question you should ask yourself. Is there anything here worth saving? Would you be able to continue to live your life with this man? Marry him? Risk having children with him? This is not something that just goes away, and as it sounds like a serious addiction with him - it's like drugs. He needs to be strong and work against that temptation for the rest of his life.
> 
> Is he strong enough to do that?


Yes, I've been asking myself these same things over and over again. I am hopeful that he is willing to start counseling, both couples counseling and individual. But I just don't know how I could deal with him doing this to me again...


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## Anooniemouse (May 5, 2010)

You know, my personal feeling is this: This is a big red warning flag with a with capital R, and a capital F, and a 1000ft pole, with blinky lights, and a ring of fire around it that be seen from space... 

This is multiple instances of this type of behavior, and multiple instances of lying, daily deceit during, and on multiple occasions even after being confronted (of which he probably didn't come clean without you having hard evidence in your hand to show?) that he continued to lie until you showed your hand. This isn't likely going to get better with a ring, and it isn't likely to get better with counseling ... unless he truly wants this behavior to change, and deathly fears the consequences. Either way, its more likely to simply move more underground, and for him to get much better at concealment ...setting off a pattern of more mistrust, and you having to pry harder to find the truth ...and the lack of trust eventually leading him wanting to be elsewhere, and you the same. 

Some people call it an addiction, and a part of it may well be, but is this kind of worry the life you want with him as your husband? Maybe its time to cut losses, and move on.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

1. Thank the lawd you're not married to him or have kids together
2. Get tested for STDs.
3. This is a BS excuse: 



BetrayedandAlone said:


> He feels awful and says he wants to stop but doesn't know how.


He knows how to stop, he just chooses not to. 

4. Save the pics of her masturbating herself and send them to her husband. For real. He has a right to know what his wife is doing.
5. In this case I would just tell you to end it. He has no intention of stopping and he's been cheating on you for pr actically your entire relationship. He has no respect for you. If it just happened I'd tell you to consider getting back w/ him if he apologized sincerely and ended it 100% but that isn't the case here.

I wasn't even married for a year when I found my hub prowling the internet for sex and posting ads on sex sites. He later told me he'd had it for a few months. It was not a fun thing to go through.


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## BetrayedandAlone (Apr 17, 2011)

Thanks for the reality check! I keep going back and forth on whether to try again or not, I think it's good for me to hear what things look like to others because my perception of it all is so warped at this point.

I do think it's a good sign that he is willing to go to counseling. I just hope he's not doing it just to stay with me but that he is actually willing to make a change. I fear that he will just say that and try to hide what he is doing even more. But he should know, you always get caught!

There is definitely no way we are getting married - not for years if at all. I don't think he has actually done anything physically, but I'm not convinced that makes any difference. It hurts so much that he may as well have...


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## lisa3girls (Apr 6, 2011)

Run away...are you kidding me?? You aren't even married and you have no children..it won't get better, run far and run fast.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

I've had a hard enough time dealing with this issue with my husband of 27 years.

No way on God's green earth would I deal with this with a "boyfriend."

Run and run fast.

Sure, he will apologize, then move further underground so you can't find out what he's doing. He'll also agree to counseling, but still move further underground so you can't find out what he's doing.

And sure, he may get caught - but he can already see that all he has to do is apologize, promise he won't do it again and agree to counseling and you'll stay with him. I guarantee it that he believes you will still choose to stay if it happens again.

Bad behavior = no consequences = continued bad behavior.

If you need this type of counseling BEFORE any marriage, I really hate to say this but your relationship is doomed for any real future. 

Why not just move on and start fresh with someone else since you yourself have said that you wouldn't get married for years, if at all.

What have you got to lose? A very stressful situation that you're not totally invested in all the way.

What have you got to gain? A man who doesn't need to lie, deceive or hide his activities because they're all above board.


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## BetrayedandAlone (Apr 17, 2011)

MarriedWifeInLove - I totally get what you're saying, but I don't really see what difference being married or not makes. We've been together for 6 years. We live together. Our lives are as entwined as any married couple. I thought I would spend the rest of my life with him. This is why I feel like I owe it to the relationship to think this through and not make a rash decision. Isn't it even possible that he is serious about wanting to change? I think he knows that I am serious about my threat to leave. We are now sleeping in separate rooms and going to counseling. I think he understands that he won't get a free pass this time around.


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## lisa3girls (Apr 6, 2011)

BetrayedandAlone said:


> MarriedWifeInLove - I totally get what you're saying, but I don't really see what difference being married or not makes. We've been together for 6 years. We live together. Our lives are as entwined as any married couple. .


I disagree, you do not have a legal standing as husband and wife, you do not have children, you are in a perfect position to walk away. You may be emotionally intertwined, but not legally and you don't yet have children to bind you forever-- and that makes a big difference on the ease of ending it. I am going to be blunt...you are a fool if you stay. 

Go-- if he is serious, he will come looking for you. BIG GIANT FLAMING RED FLAGS


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

BetrayedandAlone said:


> MarriedWifeInLove - I totally get what you're saying, but I don't really see what difference being married or not makes. We've been together for 6 years. We live together. Our lives are as entwined as any married couple. I thought I would spend the rest of my life with him. This is why I feel like I owe it to the relationship to think this through and not make a rash decision. Isn't it even possible that he is serious about wanting to change? I think he knows that I am serious about my threat to leave. We are now sleeping in separate rooms and going to counseling. I think he understands that he won't get a free pass this time around.


There is a big difference in being legally married and co-habitating.

With marriage, you are legally bound - in some states you must seek counselling, remediation, etc., before you can divorce.

While you are emotionally invested, by law, you are not legally invested nor are their children that must be taken into consideration--in most states your time together doesn't even meet the definition of common-law marriage.

This makes it "easier" to leave - maybe not emotionally, but physically and by law.

I can understand trying to work it out, but you are still young, not legally bound to this man and no children to consider - if there ever was a time to cut ties, this would be it, before all those things are thrown in the mix.

If you wish to give him another chance, sure I'm for it. You've given him two - is it three strikes you're out, or four, or five, or what? This is a decision you need to think about.

I still stand behind my own opinion that a husband and children involved - sure do everything you can to work it out, within reason.

No children, no husband - do what you can, but cut the ties when it doesn't work.

I don't want to see you here 15 years from now, married with a houseful of children with this man (now your husband) and talking about the same issues and wondering why you stayed and wasted your life.

And for the record - together 6 years - why "haven't" you married him by now?

Just a little bit of advice from someone who has been married a lot of years and has a little experience under her belt - especially with this very issue.

Good luck!


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

BetrayedandAlone said:


> I think he understands that he won't get a free pass this time around.


He'll only understand when you take real action.

Threatening to leave and leaving - two different outcomes.

A threat is just that - meaningless and not worth the air it takes to say it.

Action, such as actually leaving - speaks volumes.


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## lisa3girls (Apr 6, 2011)

:iagree:


MarriedWifeInLove said:


> He'll only understand when you take real action.
> 
> Threatening to leave and leaving - two different outcomes.
> 
> ...


:iagree:


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## BetrayedandAlone (Apr 17, 2011)

We basically consider ourselves married for all intents and purposes. We both have our own issues with the institution of marriage and would probably never get married if we didn't want children. So we have put it off until we decide to have kids  However, that is a whole separate topic and not the point of this conversation.

Like I said, I haven't decided anything, I am trying to take my time and be rational. I suppose you could call us 'separated' at the moment. Like I said, everything I've read and heard before says not to rush into a decision until after counseling and such. But I guess you guys are saying separate rooms aren't enough and that I should leave the house. I have considered that. It's a bit more difficult financially but that extra space might be a good thing.


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## lisa3girls (Apr 6, 2011)

BetrayedandAlone said:


> We basically consider ourselves married for all intents and purposes. We both have our own issues with the institution of marriage and would probably never get married if we didn't want children. So we have put it off until we decide to have kids  However, that is a whole separate topic and not the point of this conversation.
> 
> Like I said, I haven't decided anything, I am trying to take my time and be rational. I suppose you could call us 'separated' at the moment. Like I said, everything I've read and heard before says not to rush into a decision until after counseling and such. But I guess you guys are saying separate rooms aren't enough and that I should leave the house. I have considered that. It's a bit more difficult financially but that extra space might be a good thing.


Everything you have read and heard where and about what? If you are already married and have children sure, if it is the first time you are getting to an issue sure, but I don't know, this sounds like HUGE trouble to me and there is NO WAY I'd procreate with this looming.....no way...I'd never trust him


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

lisa3girls said:


> I disagree, you do not have a legal standing as husband and wife, you do not have children, you are in a perfect position to walk away. You may be emotionally intertwined, but not legally and you don't yet have children to bind you forever-- and that makes a big difference on the ease of ending it. I am going to be blunt...you are a fool if you stay.


Agreed. While you may consider yourself "married" you don't have to deal with going to court to end a relationship, motions, pendente lite, petitions, paperwork, responding, defending, discoveries, etc. It's a LOT of work to get a divorce, oh and hello, I forgot .. FINANCIALLY DRAINING so yes you're in a way better position to walk away than say someone who is legally tied to someone else. My divorce start to finish took 1.5 yr before it was finalized. 



MarriedWifeInLove said:


> He'll only understand when you take real action.
> 
> Threatening to leave and leaving - two different outcomes.


Spot on.


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## BetrayedandAlone (Apr 17, 2011)

I absolutely agree that not being married makes it easier to leave, and if we do split, indeed we don't have to worry about legal issues (though we may be considered common law married in our state...). Is the difficulty then the only reason that anyone stays? To me, that's not a good enough reason. You stay because you love the reason and you want to try to work things out.

I've been doing a lot of reading online and I've bought some books just trying to figure things out. I'm feeling pretty overwhelmed. So far, you guys are the first to say just leave and don't even bother trying!

I will certainly not marry or 'procreate' with this 'looming'. If it can't be fixed then I will certainly leave.


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## lisa3girls (Apr 6, 2011)

OK, look at it this way... why is he looking elsewhere already?? Why if he wants others, is he keeping you around? It makes NO sense. He has his cake and he is eating it too, and you are letting him. 

Call me old fashioned, but when big problems rear their heads more than once before marriage....it doesn't bode well. I guess if I felt I needed counseling before marriage, I wouldn't feel very hopeful about the outcome...and man, once kids are involved EVERYTHING is harder


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Betrayed: the thing is... you cannot work on a relationship when the other person isn't willing to give up the affair/third party/women online.

Uh uh. No way. Now how.

He told you flat out he doesn't trust he won't do it again.

That speaks VOLUMES. It means he isn't committed to you (married or otherwise). He isn't WILLING to axe it. He can do all the MC he wants but as long as he's having outside relationships while still involved with you (which makes your relationship an open one), you absolutely CANNOT recover your relationship.

The only way this will work is if you either 1. Put your foot down and tell him waht the consequence of him continuing this behavior is (you leaving) or 2. You accept living in an open relationship.


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## BetrayedandAlone (Apr 17, 2011)

I'm NOT letting him, that's the whole point. I don't know why you are being so hostile towards me. I said we are separated and that I am considering leaving. If he doesn't change his behavior we are done. Why is he looking elsewhere? I don't know. I've asked him and he says he doesn't understand it either, that he can't control it, but that it has nothing to do with me. I'm trying to decide if I can believe that. The counselors we have seen so far have been hopeful and have thrown around the word 'addiction' a bit too easily. I'm not sure if it's an addiction or not. I *know* he loves me and that he doesn't want to hurt me. But I'm not sure if he can or will change his behavior. Obviously, that would be required for us to continue in our relationship. I was just looking for a safe space to vent a little bit and hear from others but sadly I haven't found that here.


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## BetrayedandAlone (Apr 17, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Betrayed: the thing is... you cannot work on a relationship when the other person isn't willing to give up the affair/third party/women online.


He said he is willing though. And I believe that he wants to try... I'm just unsure of it actually happening



Jellybeans said:


> He told you flat out he doesn't trust you won't do it again.


I don't understand this statement. He doesn't trust I won't do what? I didn't do anything



Jellybeans said:


> He can do all the MC hew ants but as long as he's having outside relationships while still involved with you (which makes your relationship an open one), you absolutely CANNOT recover your relationship.


I completely agree. All I have is his word that he has quit the relationships but that's where I have to start.


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## lisa3girls (Apr 6, 2011)

BetrayedandAlone said:


> I'm NOT letting him, that's the whole point. I don't know why you are being so hostile towards me. I said we are separated and that I am considering leaving. If he doesn't change his behavior we are done. Why is he looking elsewhere? I don't know. I've asked him and he says he doesn't understand it either, that he can't control it, but that it has nothing to do with me. I'm trying to decide if I can believe that. The counselors we have seen so far have been hopeful and have thrown around the word 'addiction' a bit too easily. I'm not sure if it's an addiction or not. I *know* he loves me and that he doesn't want to hurt me. But I'm not sure if he can or will change his behavior. Obviously, that would be required for us to continue in our relationship. I was just looking for a safe space to vent a little bit and hear from others but sadly I haven't found that here.


Nobody is being hostile to you, we are just telling you the truth and you aren't getting the answers you wanted to hear, so now you are mad. 

I think it is BS he can't control it...it has been going on for YEARS....heck even if he WAS addicted, I'd still leave...if I was living with a guy that was addicted to drugs or alchohol, who told me several times over many years he was going to do something about it...and he didn't, I be gone then too...and you are not separated, you are still living with him. 

I'd tell him when he gets sober to contact me and not before...this isn't any different IMO...I have been married for 22 years, it won't get better.


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## lisa3girls (Apr 6, 2011)

What is that saying, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I don't think anyone here is being "hostile" toward you so I am sorry if you feel that way. You have asked for advice and we are telling you what we see, objectively, from the outside in. 

As for you not "letting" him--it's true you aren't holding a gun to his head and "making" him carry on this way w/ other women but by you continuing to stay in the relationship and having zero consequences for what he does, you are tolerating his behavior. 

Re: him saying he doesn't know why he does it... again that is a BS excuse. He does it because he "wants" to. There is no other explaination. 

That is his own choice. An duntil he owns it, I can't see this getting resolved. When someone deflects by saying they "don't know why" they do something, they are basically blaming the powers that be and not looking inwards. Another huge uphill battle.

Why does anyone do anything? Because they want to.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

BetrayedandAlone said:


> I'm not sure if it's an addiction or not. I *know* he loves me and that he doesn't want to hurt me.* But I'm not sure if he can or will change his behavior*.


He CAN change his behavior. He is just choosing not to.

Know that.


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## lisa3girls (Apr 6, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> He CAN change his behavior. He is just choosing not to.
> 
> Know that.


:iagree:


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

BetrayedandAlone said:


> I don't understand this statement. He doesn't trust I won't do what? I didn't do anything


I went back to edit.  Butter fingers.


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## BetrayedandAlone (Apr 17, 2011)

lisa3girls said:


> Nobody is being hostile to you, we are just telling you the truth and you aren't getting the answers you wanted to hear, so now you are mad.


I'm not really mad, just frustrated with your tone. Just you, I think everyone else has been fine. I feel like you are blaming me and being hostile toward me. 

I don't really know if there was an answer I wanted to hear. I did just want an outside perspective. I get that the consensus here is 'get out now, don't even bother trying to see things through'. That is certainly hard to hear, that six years of my life would be down the drain. I don't even necessarily disagree. I just want to take things a bit more slowly to make sure I am deciding things rationally. For some reason you seem to have a big problem with that. I'm not sure why.

This only just happened, so I think it is incorrect to say that he is "choosing" not to change. He has chosen to change, to see a counselor and try to work things out. He has done everything I've asked of him. He has said he will do anything I ask him. I'm just not sure what to ask him, what I would need to trust him. I'm hoping that a counselor can help with this. I've been making lists on my own of what I would need to feel secure should I decide to stay in this relationship. Only time will tell if he follows through on those things.

I may decide to move out while we are going through this. I'm still up in the air about this because I would need to find a new place and buy a car. 

To everyone else, I really do appreciate your thoughts and comments. I'm sorry if my frustration with one person made it seem like I was frustrated with everyone.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

We are not trying to be hostile to you and I apologize if anything I've posted has come across that way.

We live in the real world and are trying to get you there also.

You are still young, you aren't legally tied to this man - work on it, sure if you love him and believe him that he will change.

But if not - then go - you aren't tied to him in the legal sense that he's your husband and there are no children, etc. Perfect time to hit the door.

I guess I came from a different generation and background. If you love him enough to "live with him" then you should love him enough to "marry him." I don't go for all this "why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free" stuff. Old-fashioned I guess. 

There are so many women in your same situation that do not have the luxury of leaving due to being a SAHM, or several children, etc., who wished they could leave.

You can - the choice is yours as to whether you do or not.

Sure - try to work it out - but decide now - how many chances is he going to get?

Space may be just the thing - it will allow him to see if he can get control of himself without the fear of you watching over his shoulder.

You know what they say - if you behave in private the way you behave in public - then you have nothing to worry about.

See what he truly does "on his own." That will tell you everything.


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## BetrayedandAlone (Apr 17, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> but by you continuing to stay in the relationship and having zero consequences


But there aren't zero consequences. I have told him I am leaving. We are separated and we are seeing counselors. Is physically moving out the only consequence you think would have an effect?

He has stopped, as far as I know. And he appears to be doing everything he can. Whether that's good enough, I don't know.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I thought you said he'd done this for years now? That it wasn't just a one-time thing. 

Didn't realize you guys had separated, thought you were still living together. Well that does change things a bit. For some reason I assumed you were still living w/ him and told him you would move or he could move if he didn't stop his actions but hadn't done so yet. Good for you for moving out/or him moving out. 

For us looking in, it does look bad and it does look like a lot of red flags.

Either way, the choice is yours whatever you decide to do. I wish you luck no matter the outcome. Do respect yourself no matter what.


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## BetrayedandAlone (Apr 17, 2011)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> We are not trying to be hostile to you and I apologize if anything I've posted has come across that way.


No, not you at all. I apologize for saying that.



MarriedWifeInLove said:


> Sure - try to work it out - but decide now - how many chances is he going to get?


Ha, this would absolutely be the last chance, if even.



MarriedWifeInLove said:


> Space may be just the thing - it will allow him to see if he can get control of himself without the fear of you watching over his shoulder.


You may be right. This may indeed be the best way to approach this.


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## lisa3girls (Apr 6, 2011)

It sounds alot to me like you are rationalizing staying and I hate to see women do this kind of thing to themselves-- if you want marriage and children, delaying leavning will not make that easier -- like it or not, we have biological clocks... I still stand by my advice to leave, let him work out his 'addiction' or whatever. If he really wants you back and really values you, he will get himself into addiction counseling right away and then you will have your answer as to whether you should give him another chance. Right now, you are just doing the same thing you did the last two times you caught him, nothing really. 

You don't need counseling, HE does. And while I understand the frustration of investing 6 years, the only thing more foolish would be to invest more-- they call that sunk costs...can't change the past but can change the future. 

What if the right person is missed because you kept giving someone who doesn't deserve you more and more chances?? I am married and have 3 children and I would probably leave if my hubby was doing what your boyfriend is doing, especially more than once.


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## BetrayedandAlone (Apr 17, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> I thought you said he'd done this for years now? That it wasn't just a one-time thing.


I meant the finding out part just happened. We are now in the immediate aftermath so things have been very emotional.



Jellybeans said:


> Didn't realize you guys had separated, thought you were still living together.


We are still living together but in different rooms. I've been trying to avoid him as much as possible. Moving out is a possibility, but difficult financially. I am considering this though.


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## lisa3girls (Apr 6, 2011)

I think she said they were separated because they were sleeping in separate bedrooms.


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## lisa3girls (Apr 6, 2011)

BetrayedandAlone said:


> I meant the finding out part just happened. We are now in the immediate aftermath so things have been very emotional.
> 
> 
> 
> We are still living together but in different rooms. I've been trying to avoid him as much as possible. Moving out is a possibility, but difficult financially. I am considering this though.


But you have caught him before and he has promised before to stop right?


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## BetrayedandAlone (Apr 17, 2011)

lisa3girls said:


> It sounds alot to me like you are rationalizing staying


Maybe I am. I'm not sure. I've spent this entire time so convinced that I was leaving but now I'm doubting this based on the things I've read and the people I've talked to. I totally hear you on the 'investing more time' thing. I am 30 years old, not that young and not getting any younger. Perhaps I should set a time limit - if I'm not convinced by XX then call it quits? I am more leaning toward moving out regardless, an actual separation.


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## lisa3girls (Apr 6, 2011)

BetrayedandAlone said:


> Maybe I am. I'm not sure. I've spent this entire time so convinced that I was leaving but now I'm doubting this based on the things I've read and the people I've talked to. I totally hear you on the 'investing more time' thing. I am 30 years old, not that young and not getting any younger. Perhaps I should set a time limit - if I'm not convinced by XX then call it quits? I am more leaning toward moving out regardless, an actual separation.


I would...and really I don't mean to be hostile to you at all...I had my first daughter at 31, and my last at 37-- and now at 48 I cannot fathom having waited much longer as I still have a 10 year old in the house. 

I hate to see you 3 years from now, still not married, still childless and having the same issues. If you actually move out you get two things:

1- immediate feedback as to whether he is serious about doing something (and no you don't move back in or even have a relationship with him until he proves to you he has mended his ways-- and how to prove it is his problem)

2- you get the opportunity to meet others while you let him work on his issues. Maybe you will and maybe you won't, but at least you have the chance.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Betrayed--about being 30... I just turned thirty and just got a divorce two weeks ago. No kids. Together 8 yrs. EIGHT yrs that I will never get back! LOL. But ya know what, like Lisa said: 



lisa3girls said:


> And while I understand the frustration of investing 6 years, the only thing more foolish would be to invest more


WORD UP!!!! 

Seriously, it's true! 



lisa3girls said:


> What if the right person is missed because you kept giving someone who doesn't deserve you more and more chances??


Again, spot on. You will never meet a person that is deserving of you if you stay with someone who can't appreciate you and isn't willing to commit to you only.


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## lisa3girls (Apr 6, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Betrayed--about being 30... I just turned thirty and just got a divorce two weeks ago. No kids. Together 8 yrs. EIGHT yrs that I will never get back! LOL. But ya know what, like Lisa said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Why thank you jellybeans! :smthumbup:


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## BetrayedandAlone (Apr 17, 2011)

lisa3girls said:


> You don't need counseling, HE does.


Oh, and he has already agreed to counseling, together and individually. I don't know if it is an addiction or not, he certainly doesn't like that word, but he is committed to trying to figure it out. He has said he wants to do this whether I stay with him or not because it would undoubtedly affect his future relationships.


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## lisa3girls (Apr 6, 2011)

BetrayedandAlone said:


> Oh, and he has already agreed to counseling, together and individually. I don't know if it is an addiction or not, he certainly doesn't like that word, but he is committed to trying to figure it out. He has said he wants to do this whether I stay with him or not because it would undoubtedly affect his future relationships.


And he should, but I still wouldn't put my life on hold waiting...he should have done it the first time you had a confrontation about it. You have to be fair to you.


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## BetrayedandAlone (Apr 17, 2011)

lisa3girls said:


> And he should, but I still wouldn't put my life on hold waiting...he should have done it the first time you had a confrontation about it. You have to be fair to you.


This is true. I think neither of us really knew what to do the first time around and I am kicking myself for not taking a stronger stance.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

IMHO, it isn't an "addiction." Just sounds like another excuse he is using. 

Why is that sex addicts are never addicted to sex w/ their partner/SO?


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## lisa3girls (Apr 6, 2011)

BetrayedandAlone said:


> This is true. I think neither of us really knew what to do the first time around and I am kicking myself for not taking a stronger stance.


Doesn't this sort of tell you what you need to do now?


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## lisa3girls (Apr 6, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> IMHO, it isn't an "addiction." Just sounds like another excuse he is using.
> 
> Why is that sex addicts are never addicted to sex w/ their partner/SO?


Because that requires intimacy....pictures of mastubating women from cyberspace do not.


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## BetrayedandAlone (Apr 17, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> IMHO, it isn't an "addiction." Just sounds like another excuse he is using.
> 
> Why is that sex addicts are never addicted to sex w/ their partner/SO?


I'm not sure what to think about the addiction stuff. To be fair, its not him saying it, it's the counselors. He does not think it is an addiction, just compulsive behavior. He has called it an escape from the real world. I told him he shouldn't need an escape and if there are issues, he should talk to ME about them.


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## BetrayedandAlone (Apr 17, 2011)

lisa3girls said:


> Doesn't this sort of tell you what you need to do now?


And I definitely am taking a stronger stance now. Just not convinced that there isn't anything worth saving.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

30 - did I hear 30?

Gals, I'm old enough to be your mother! Oh for the days when I was 30.

Time to go home and have a stiff drink now...HA


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## lisa3girls (Apr 6, 2011)

BetrayedandAlone said:


> I'm not sure what to think about the addiction stuff. To be fair, its not him saying it, it's the counselors. He does not think it is an addiction, just compulsive behavior. He has called it an escape from the real world. I told him he shouldn't need an escape and if there are issues, he should talk to ME about them.


Xbox games are an escape, books are an escape, movies...you name it...all perfectly ok


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

BetrayedandAlone said:


> I told him he shouldn't need an escape and if there are issues, he should talk to ME about them.


You are 100% right about that.


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## lisa3girls (Apr 6, 2011)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> 30 - did I hear 30?
> 
> Gals, I'm old enough to be your mother! Oh for the days when I was 30.
> 
> Time to go home and have a stiff drink now...HA


Me too....I am going to have a drink too


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> 30 - did I hear 30?
> 
> Gals, I'm old enough to be your mother! Oh for the days when I was 30.
> 
> Time to go home and have a stiff drink now...HA


:rofl: I will make you a martini...here ya go 

:: passes an Appletini off to MarriedWife ::


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> :rofl: I will make you a martini...here ya go
> 
> :: passes an Appletini off to MarriedWife ::


Thanks! I needed that...


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

BetrayedandAlone said:


> I'm not sure what to think about the addiction stuff. To be fair, its not him saying it, it's the counselors. He does not think it is an addiction, just compulsive behavior. He has called it an escape from the real world. I told him he shouldn't need an escape and if there are issues, he should talk to ME about them.


That's the excuse a LOT of them use. It's always blamed on "something else" other than their ability to do the right thing and control themselves.

Of course he's not going to admit it's an addiction. Alcoholics and drug addicts are good at denial also.

But the rest of us understand the definitioin of what an "addiction" is. 

Until he decides to "face the truth" about his cyber-activities and what the real issues are, he will never be able to overcome them. 

Unfortunately, with his comment, he's already coming up with excuses for his behavior.

There's more to "his" story here. Hopefully he'll come clean in counseling, but that doesn't always happen either.

Good luck!


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> That's the excuse a LOT of them use. It's always blamed on "something else" other than their ability to do the right thing and control themselves.
> 
> Until he decides to "face the truth" about his cyber-activities and what the real issues are, he will never be able to overcome them.


My ex-H didn't pull the "addiction" excuse I would have laughed. He did tell me him soliciting sex on dating sites was a "joke." I didn't laugh at that cause it wasn't funny. It was STUPID. LOL. As for the chick he cheated on me with, he said he only did it because I "wasn't there." Um, okay. 

Until he can own what he did, you're facing an uphill battle, Betrayed.

And Married--I agree--there is almost always more to the story.


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