# ILYBINILWY really hurts deeply



## SadDad1974

My apologies in advance for the long post. I honestly don't know who to talk to, so I'd like to type it out if you guys didn't mind.

The other day my wife of 6 years gave it to me straight and I have never felt so alone. After three years of unhappiness, she has fallen out of love because I have taken her for granted and taken advantage of her kindness.

I hadn't realized how badly my laziness was negatively affecting my wife, whom I still love and am still in love with. When we were dating and living together, she would take care of me first, and herself last. I come with baggage in the form of two kids from a previous marriage. They live with us, and because of my inability to be an effective father, she is the one on their butts getting them to do chores, checking their schoolwork, following up with teachers, etc.

Recently, she took a few days vacation away from me for her birthday to visit her best friend. While she was gone, I busied myself with a few home repairs, helped her brother work on his car, and drove 400 miles to pick up her mother and our daughter from a relative's house. I had completely neglected to clean the house because I was so busy with the projects I had prioritized, and my wife was looking forward to an orderly house upon her return. My house isn't filthy, but I had left folded clothes out without putting them away, some trash on the floor in our bedroom, the pile of wood I had bought to patch the fence was still a pile of wood, and my sons' bathroom was not in good shape. She became withdrawn and seemed to have given up.

The day after, I felt like I was being ignored by her because she had been in bed with me for hours while she was on Facebook and I had to express my anger. She explained to me that she doesn't want to talk to me because she is not happy with her life, and if I don't know why, she has a problem with that, too. She went on to explain how I've been a lazy father and how I have burdened her with everything, and coming home to what she saw was the last straw. She then said she loved me, but not like she used to. She concluded that she was no longer in love with me and that her heart has gone cold and doesn't feel anything.

Yesterday, I decided to turn over a new leaf. Rather than apologizing for the past, taking action would make the strongest message. I left work early and worked my butt off cleaning our bedroom, the entire bathroom, the gameroom, finished patching the backyard fence, and offered to put her mom in our room while I occupied the guest room so my wife can have some space from me. And when she got home from work I prepared her a plate of dinner and warmed it up. I did this not just to show her that I can do it for a day, but because I wanted to experience what she experienced for years to gain a better understanding and appreciation.

Last night we talked again and reiterated that she was not in love with me, but she was willing to let me try my personal changes to see if things improve. She did say she was very scared about what happens when I do improve for the better, things do get better, and she still hasn't fallen back in love with me. I think right now she has built up a wall and will be resistant to me. Being in a marriage and not being loved the way I want is a feeling in my stomach that I do not like.

Thank you for listening.


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## SadDad1974

I suppose this may not be in the correct forum because I'm not the one considering divorce or separation. I do feel that my wife has given up (at least for now) and just wants to pass some time before asking for a divorce. I don't know how to call it and I don't really know what to expect.


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## njdad

Very similar to mine and others' stories. First let me say, I am sorry. I know how much this hurts.

I have been working on the improved me for almost 2 months now -- doing chores around the house, working out every day, watching what I spend, doting on the kids -- but have received no recognition or glimmer of hope whatsoever. So, hopefully, the fact that your wife says she is willing to give you a chance is a good sign. I too think my wife is scared of the future. She has made up her mind and doesn't want to waiver from her plan because she does not know what will happen if she does. I asked her to just let whatever happens happen, but she isn't very receptive. Maybe you can ask your wife to not fear the future; just to live in and enjoy the moment and see what happens. Counseling might also help.


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## nomoretogive

As the wife in this scenario, I'd say you have your work cut out for you. While some women give this speech as a sneaky way to motivate -- aka manipulate -- their men into changing, most of us who give it are dead serious: We're just done. I especially think this is the case -- and applaud your wife for her ability to be honest with you right now -- given that she has told you that even if you make all these changes, she may still never love you again. That tells you how much she has thought about this and pondered every option. This doesn't seem to be something that just flew out of her mouth in a fit of anger. She's serious about it.


*I have taken her for granted and taken advantage of her kindness.*
Did you seriously not realize until now that for years you have been taking her for granted? Did it never occur to you to think all those years, Wow, she's doing a whole hell of a lot more around here than I am and shouldering my responsibilities. I should probably help her. Did you really have to be hit up-side the head with it before you got it? 

Then you say *my inability to be an effective father*. Again, seriously, by your own admission, you have been a crappy husband and ineffective father. What, then, would make your wife attracted to you? Able to respect you? You can't just be, can't just exist, in a marriage, especially with children, and expect your wife to always be happy with the status quo. Once we lose respect for you and resentment creeps in, the road back is a long one filled with huge potholes, and sometimes not worth it, because, more often than not, we already know what waits at the end, and we turn around. 

While I applaud your ability to understand that talk is cheap and actions are what gets attention, I still think you're going about it all wrong. What your wife needs right now IS talk -- she needs to hear you acknowledge that you know you have been wrong, that you have taken stock and know where you fell short, and she needs to hear you apologize for allowing her to carry the load all this time while you sat back and allowed it. She needs to know that you get it.

*Being in a marriage and not being loved the way I want is a feeling in my stomach that I do not like.* Likely, your wife has been feeling this FOR YEARS. That is the problem. You have to figure out what your wife needs from you to feel loved -- you may be doing it all wrong, ala The Five Love Languages -- and fix that. 

I can tell you right now, my husband has done the same thing you are doing: All of a sudden, he turns into a cleaning tornado, and tries to make up for years of neglect in the span of a week. It has the opposite effect I think you guys are aiming for: It pisses me off even more. One, because obviously you ARE capable of doing these things, and my perception becomes reality: You could have been doing it all along but actively chose not to; actively chose to leave me hanging on my own. Two, while one of my gripes is that I need more help around the house and with the kids, it is much far lower on the list than the fact that I need a *man* who is capable of being a good husband, a good father, who can support me emotionally, who can function as my partner, not a bystander. 

I say this not to beat up on you -- okay, well, maybe a little because you need it after what you wrote -- but because you need to get a game plan together on how you're going to proceed, rather than throwing yourself into all these new "changes" that aren't likely to last and will just exacerbate your problems. 

If you keep doing what you're doing and don't acknowledge your wife's feelings in all of this, I guarantee you're going to have a really clean house with a checked-off honey-do list, but your wife will be long gone. A clean house and being served dinner is a great thing, but right now you need to find a way to connect with your wife again. If you don't do that, you're going to be back on here in no time posting that she's filed for divorce. 

Right now, I think you need to have a come-to-Jesus meeting with yourself, figure out where you've come up short and ways to address those issues. You need to pull your head out of your a$$ and up your game -- with your wife, your kids, your responsibilities, and yourself. You don't need to become a maid: you need to become a better husband, father, person. Become the man your wife would love to date. Start treating her like you should have been all along. 

Even if you do all of these things, it may not be enough to save your marriage, but it gives you a much better shot than wielding a vacuum and cooking dinner and thinking that should be good enough.


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## soconfused1984

From the wife's point of view I kind of understand her behavior but I also understand yours. For 6 yrs I've been struggling with my husband due to his lazziness and how I end up doing EVERYTHING and I mean EVERYTHING for him, for us, and for our son!!! i wash the car, i work full time, i cook, i clean up OUR mess, i deal with the cars when they need to be fixed, etc. etc. for the past 8 months I just gave up! I tried everything to make him understand how his behavior was affecting everything! he never got the point until I decided to leave him! he got scared and realized he needed to change, so he did! and I really appreciate him and I see his change ALOT!!! still needs work and reminders, and that's cus Im not that strict or picky just the normal usual stuff he can do but just won't feel like doing,,,anways, so now that he is changed, I don't love him anymore!!! my energy to fight for out love is gone, my desire is gone everything is gone! I'm exhausted!!! I'm glad he changed but for our son because he was never close to our son, never plays with him etc. etc....I'm not sure if this will help you but this is just my case, now, by you posting here is a sign that you care and want to change! you just have to sit and talk and let everything out without fighting though!! ask her what she thinks, and let her feel comfortable with you that whatever she wants to tell you, you won't mad! please don't get mad cus then she will shut down and not want to talk about it!! work something out like a schedule to do chores, to help the kids, to play with them etc. etc. you can maybe take the kids to play meanwhile she makes dinner or help with homework while she cleans and stuff...little things like that are great for us woman!!! invite her to a romantic dinner and let her know that she can talk to you! spice it up a bit let her know you WILL change! many woman have to understand men think and act way differently than us and it requires alot alot alot of patience with them and not many woman are willing to have that patience for our man, so please don't take too long to take action and get to talking! talking! talking! about the problem unlike my case that my husband has a short temper and that makes it hard for us to talk but even then we were able to =) good luck and i wish u the best!!! =)


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## Entropy3000

Often when you get this there is a third party in the marriage. Not saying there has to be. BUT, you say she went to visit her friend. Then comes back and is distant. She is on Facebook. Uh huh. Right. Look into this. 

You cannot work on marital issues IF there is someone else. It is reasonably easy to investigate. I am not talking about accusing her of anything.

So rule this out. There are flags.


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## Lon

primer, you sound to me like a nice guy that has been gaslighted. You really need to stop beating yourself up right now, ignore what nomoretogive has to say for now because there is no good point in you dwelling on the past right now. Life is hard, we are not perfect, sometimes we neglect certain things, we do our best and the challenge is to overcome those obstacles. Your W has given up trying to overcome those obstacles with you because she has lost faith in the marriage - nomoretogive is right, that when your W said ILYBINILWY she is checked out and done, what your job right now is to find out the REAL reason your W has lost faith (be it your failures, which I suspect or not really all that bad as they probably feel, or be it an OM).

Do not beg, plead or try to take care of all that your W is accusing you of, actions speak so much louder than words, so don't take what she is telling you at face value, nor expect to be able to win her back by telling her what she wants to hear because your words do not carry any credibility either.

Your best move at this point is doing the "180" (search the forums here) basically give your W what she is asking for, without emotion, without neediness or clinginess from you. Let her go (she moves out, not you since she is the one who wants to leave), separate your finances, do not pay for her new single life she is asking for and go dark on her - basically put her out of your life in order to focus completely on yourself and your own life right now. Start the divorce proceedings (it usually takes a long time and can be stopped at any time if your W realizes she made a bad choice by asking for this).

But before you give her any knid of space/time to "find herself" make sure you do some due diligence to make sure her choices aren't being fueled by an affair - search her phone, internet and facebook history, look into a P.I. secretly put a voice activated recorder (VAR) in her car under the seat (or wherever else she spends time alone on her phone) and put a keylogger on her computer. This is an invasion of privacy but the kind that has the only chance of saving your marriage should this suspicion become true. If you find evidence don't confront right away, gather as much as you can and make a plan to expose her affair to anyone you think is necessary to make it impossible to carry out any longer. If you confront to soon you will get trickle truth and she will just hide her affair better making it that much harder to bust it up.

If your "spying" doesn't turn up any evidence of infidelity and you are convinced there is none then she is just done anyway, you have nothing to lose by verifying all of this.


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## that_girl

Entropy3000 said:


> Often when you get this there is a third party in the marriage. Not saying there has to be. BUT, you say she went to visit her friend. Then comes back and is distant. She is on Facebook. Uh huh. Right. Look into this.
> 
> You cannot work on marital issues IF there is someone else. It is reasonably easy to investigate. I am not talking about accusing her of anything.
> 
> So rule this out. There are flags.


That's the first thing I thought too.


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## SadDad1974

The signs were there about the third party, and so I went to work on being nosy. I just found out a few hours ago while snooping through her email account's deleted folder. There is a guy she chats often with whom I didn't know about, mentioning I love yous and I miss yous, and suggestive language. Not being satisfied, I took the memory card from her digital camera and used recovery software to find some deleted pictures of her visiting the guy, when I thought she was there to visit her best friend.

I pick her up from work today and I am not angry, so I will attempt to talk to her about this. I don't know how else to feel.


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## keko

primer said:


> Not being satisfied, I took the memory card from her digital camera and used recovery software to find some deleted pictures of her visiting the guy, when I thought she was there to visit her best friend.
> .


Were the pictures explicit in a sexual way? You might as well have her panties checked for semen if she hasn't washed them yet.

Install a keylogger into the computer she uses, and check for secret email's, facebook messages, etc.


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## Lon

*DO NOT CONFRONT* her on this yet... you need to do some serious investigating first.

Unless by not being angry and talking you mean telling her to leave and you calling a lawyer to start the divorce.


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## Entropy3000

Hokey Smokes Bullwinkle!!

There you go.


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## arbitrator

I'd definitely have more substantive evidence in hand prior to confronting. Your situation sounds eerily similar to mine, but I got moved out before I could discover anything. Best of luck to you, Primer; we'll be here if you should need us!


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## SadDad1974

The messages were suggestive. The pictures were not of a sexual nature but it's apparent they were very close, like a boyfriend / girlfriend thing.

I did what was not recommended and asked her about it. Actually, I wrote him an email and copied her on it. It was not abrasive or abusive at all, but I wrote that if he cared about her, that he would let her resolve her issues with me first, and that if there were ever exchange of words between he and I, that an apology would be a good start. I sent this just as I picked my wife up from work.

She didn't know how to react, and became defensive and cold. She admitted that she was in love with him.

We talked some more, and I told her that since I'm in the business of becoming a better man, I won't yell or scream, and I would approach this with utter clarity. She seemed spooked, being suspicious of my handling of this. I read her mind and affirmed, "No, I haven't cheated on you."

At first, she seemed defeated and was ready to throw in the towel. I did not push or beg or plead, but when she asked me why I was trying so hard, my first answer was, "because I still love you, and you are right about deserving more." After buying dinner for her mother and talking some more in the car, she changed her tune and says she's willing to give this marriage another try.

I will not justify cheating on me for all of the terrible things I have done. But with a clear head, I am able to better map out what's best for me ... I just don't know what lies ahead. I am madly in love with her despite the infidelity and I don't have a reason. I just do.

Guys, tomorrow (actually today, in a few hours) I'm leaving my house for the weekend to ride for Multiple Sclerosis. I was about to miss out on it this time to be with my wife and talk with her some more, but I feel she needs the space and I need a LOT of alone time. My bike ride is 180 miles from Houston, TX to Austin, TX, and I will spend many hours by myself in total isolation. It is going to be a perfect time for me to reflect and be angry with the world, be angry with my wife, and hopefully I miss her enough to go home to her on Sunday. Cheers to my charity bike ride.

If you'd like to read about my ride, follow the link. It is my fourth year participating and this year I am volunteering as a ride marshal. Godspeed to you and I will chime in at the start of the week.

http://main.nationalmssociety.org/goto/albo


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## keko

You need to verify what happened when she visited her "friend". Otherwise you'll be reconciling based on lies.


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## arbitrator

Primer: I'll have to give you credit: you definitely had the _cajones_ to confront the OM, albeit by email; something that a lot of us probably would not have chosen to do. I was against confrontation at this early stage based on probable insufficient evidence. I salute you, Sir, for taking the bull by the horns and for answering to your heart.

But please be cautious in all of this, because in your stated absence from the home scene, I would not want to see you get blind-sided! I will remain in prayer for the restoration of your relationship and marriage, and will also be in prayer for you as you make that arduous bicycle journey from Houston to Austin.

Strange thing is that I've got to travel down to the Katy area later today for some 7-On-7 football activity that I help officiate, and I may likely see segments of your group on those backroads between Hempstead and Brookshire. You be careful out there and we'll await your presence with us as soon as you get back. Have a safe and introspective journey, my friend!


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## Lon

While you are away on your ride your W will be in almost constant contact with the OM binging on his attention and lust fueling her own all the while figuring out in her mind how to make this work best for her, how to continue this new relationship and make you think she has ended it. The guy surely knows she is married to you and is happy to oblige your W's fantasy of having sex with him. If he lives in the same city he will possibly be in your bed with her, they will coordinate this together to fo underground.

How can I say this? Because she is taking her plays directly from the cheaters script, the same script that made us all suggest you look for the OM when you put up the title for your thread. I think you are crazy for giving her space and time right now, you are essentially inviting the OM into your bedroom personally. Sorry if that sounds brutal, but your W is a cheater and that's what cheaters do. Cancel your ride or let some other man bang your W, your choice.


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## SadDad1974

Folks, I did my ride, and we were sweet to each other early Saturday night. I got the concerned wife texts all morning asking if I was ok and to be safe, and it made me feel good and finish strong. At the halfway point in La Grange, TX on Saturday afternoon, I got the text asking, "did you install spyware on my computer?"

Not trying to make things worse by lying, but I said yes and I'm sorry, but I was desperate. I had already asked her about another man and she said no, yet the signs were there, so I took matters into my own hands.

She was very offended by it, talking about how there is never going to be any trust between us, and there is no way this marriage is going to work. I responded, "I haven't thrown your affair back to your face, do not talk to me about ethics. Spying on you to get what I needed was wrong, but it was right."

Then she gave me the line that I didn't ask enough. And that she was practically begging to be caught, hoping I would find out and break things off with her instead so that I as the aggressor would be less hurt. She changed her GMail password very often, deleted text messages, and was deleting her conversations with this guy. How is this begging to be caught? Then she said when I returned from my bike ride, we would talk about living arrangements.

I was devastated. I didn't have an appetite and I could not sleep. Having 78 more miles to ride the following morning, I had given up. I asked my sister, who was volunteering for the MS 150, to just drive me to Austin so I can take the return shuttle bus home.

All the participants had left, and I decided I didn't want to sit in a car waiting for my fate to occur. I would be better off occupying myself on the bike ride, I thought. So I ate a pancake, got dressed, and my good friend and I were the very last out. Without dinner and with one pancake, I was able to muster up the strength to climb those hills. I ate two bananas along the ride and drank lots of water. I even hit 46 mph on the big downhill. At the finish line, the crowd was so appreciative of all the rider's efforts and it was nuts. Along the quarter mile finish line entrance, I must have given a thousand high-fives coasting next to the spectator barricade. That was a bittersweet moment.

Back at home, just a few hours ago, I spoke to my wife. I told her that I had promised to make her happy, and therefore I'm letting her go. We agreed to a prelim separation and she tells me she is going to enjoy being single for a while and not be in a relationship. But wait, you ARE in a relationship. The texts and pictures are those of a boyfriend and girlfriend.

Because he is in the Navy and being in California, and with me in Houston with no Naval base anywhere nearby, I am already saddened to know I will be losing my daughter.


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## Lon

Yes let her go. Do not let your daughter go, file for sole custody if you must. Have you seen a lawyer yet? That is your next step. Call around and talk to a few, ask them about prices to draft up the separation agreements. Separate your finances, close any joint bank accounts and close any joint credit cards. Do not move from your house, she is the one that wants to leave. Good luck, I'm sorry you are here right now, you will have all kinds of emotional stuff to sort through (betrayal, rejection, inadequacy, anger etc) but you will get through it all - just focus on protecting yourself and your rights right now, and at this point learn to ignore EVERYTHING she says because she is a cheater who has no intention to break off her affair, she is picking the OM and/or the single life over you and is in the fog of her affairs (meaning her reality is so much different right now than the reality of the woman you once knew). I've been pretty much where you are and I can tell you that you will have no regrets letting her go when you finally comprehend just how much damage and pain she is deliberately causing you and your daughter.


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## arbitrator

File First! This afternoon if you have to! You have been the good and decent parent and that girl needs to be raised by someone who has your morals and your character!

You're in Texas, Primer, and even if your STBXW were to remotely win custody, you could still prohibit her from taking your daughter over state lines without yours or the courts blessing. You've got work to do! Get busy, Sir!


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## keko

:iagree: File ASAP!

If you haven't, expose the affair to her family before she twist's the story and makes you the badguy.


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