# How many women will never ever perform oral sex on a man, why?



## Ragnar Ragnasson

This is inspired by @southbound 's thread.

Yes, I'm passing the buck a bit, but I'm looking properly abashed while doing it 🙄.

How many women would/will never perform fellatio on a man, ever, and why not?

What keeps you from doing so in your present relationship, that if is for outside reasons, if changed, would you give enthusiastic oral?

There were a lot of side bar almost tangential discussions re @southbound 's thread. 

So I thought I'd cast this out there. If in the wrong section, mods pls move it at will, tx.

Hmmmm?


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## Lady2019

My husband dislikes oral. He’s too sensitive. 🤷‍♀️ Otherwise I’d do it. That help?


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## Anastasia6

I do go down on my husband and occasionally to completion. I do it more now than earlier in the relationship. So I don't know if I count.

I can say very simply... What's in it for me? I like pleasing my husband but there are plenty of ways to please him that involve pleasure for me too. I'm lucky because he enjoys PIV to oral. He lasts too long with oral like 20 minutes or more and his size versus my mouth just doesn't work well. Just as he's about to cum ( of course just about seems to means could be forever left) he swells which makes it really uncomfortable and hard not to scrap.

But the craziest thing I hear on this forum is if she doesn't want to have sex she could at least give me a blow job? Really? A quickie is easier than a blow job. And at least even if I don't get an orgasm I at least get some good feelings and take alot less effort than a blow job?

How many times do men go down on women and then walk off without getting anything themself? And do it over and over again? 

I prefer sex to be pleasurable for both. 

So what do you like oral for so much. It seems like most times oral is depicted as a power trip or something demeaning. Why is it so important to some men?


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## Diana7

Its not my favourite thing but its not an issue for us because my husband much prefers PIV to oral anyway. Also there is a LOT that you can do with your hands.:smile2:

As to why? The same reason that people prefer anything over something else in life, its a preference. Like I prefer some foods to others. No particular reason, but I do think that women have a perfectly good vagina that is specifically designed for the penis in sex, whereas a mouth isn't designed to stretch etc.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

And oral should be very reciprocal and even if the guy doesn't get a bi, it shouldn't preclude him from doing oral on her if that's one if her favorite ways to reach orgasm.

And for me, I just like doing it, to two to four Os for her. I think it's a blast.


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## jorgegene

all the women i've ever been with (except one; my brief sexless marriage) and that does not mean very many, performed oral without me asking for it.

come to think of it, I don't think i've ever asked a woman for oral. they just seem to like it.

my current wife will do on her own as a warm up.

i will not ask. but when they like, its' welcome.

why do i not ask? because it just seems really weird. can't imagine why they would want to do it, but they do.


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## JustTheWife

No problem at all doing it. Did with many guys. Never met a guy that didn't like it except for my husband! So I will probably never ever do it again.


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## ConanHub

I kept back a little, waiting to see about women responding.

I love giving oral and making love to a woman's entire body with my mouth.

I wouldn't be with a woman who didn't realize that aspect of what a mouth was designed to do.


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## Diana7

ConanHub said:


> I kept back a little, waiting to see about women responding.
> 
> I love giving oral and making love to a woman's entire body with my mouth.
> 
> I wouldn't be with a woman who didn't realize that aspect of what a mouth was designed to do.


To be honest the mouth wasn't actually designed for sex, the genitals were. Some choose to use them for that and that's fine, but you only have to look at the mouth to see that unlike the vagina its not the right design for oral sex. Same with the anus. The muscles in the anus all go the wrong way for taking something in, they are designed for expelling which is why some people get damaged though frequent anal sex and later in life have problems with leakage.


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## ConanHub

Diana7 said:


> To be honest the mouth wasn't actually designed for sex, the genitals were. Some choose to use them for that and that's fine, but you only have to look at the mouth to see that unlike the vagina its not the right design for oral sex. Same with the anus. The muscles in the anus all go the wrong way for taking something in, they are designed for expelling which is why some people get damaged though frequent anal sex and later in life have problems with leakage.


The mouth was designed for many things and kissing, caressing and oral sex are among them.

You are talking with an established theologian with easy access to the original Hebrew and Greek.

I have had to correct more than one minister about the meaning of certain scriptures.

The Bible is pretty descriptive about sex in several places.


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## SunCMars

Diana7 said:


> Its not my favourite thing but its not an issue for us because my husband much prefers PIV to oral anyway. Also there is a LOT that you can do with your hands.:smile2:
> 
> As to why? The same reason that people prefer anything over something else in life, its a preference. Like I prefer some foods to others. No particular reason, but I do think that women have a perfectly good vagina that is specifically designed for the penis in sex, whereas a mouth isn't designed to stretch etc.



Oh yeah, oy vey, Aye,

You have come a long way in your wording and in your openness, my good woman.

The screen pixels seem to have rubbed off on ya!

The wee pixies...they offed me!


King Brian of Dublin proper-


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## Diana7

ConanHub said:


> The mouth was designed for many things and kissing, caressing and oral sex are among them.
> 
> You are talking with an established theologian with easy access to the original Hebrew and Greek.
> 
> I have had to correct more than one minister about the meaning of certain scriptures.
> 
> The Bible is pretty descriptive about sex in several places.


I am well aware of sing of songs. My husband has studied it among many other parts of the Bible.


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## Music Lover

Some people (both men and women) don't like giving or receiving oral sex. I've had partners who felt that way and just accepted that it was something we didn't do - all relationships involve compromise. 

There's no need to invoke unscientific design or theology to justify their dislike of oral sex. That they don't want to do it is good enough for me.

Personally, I feel they're missing out on something that can be pleasurable and has no downside, but that's their choice. Surely, nobody should be pressured into doing something that makes them feel uncomfortable.


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## Hiner112

Anastasia6 said:


> I do go down on my husband and occasionally to completion. I do it more now than earlier in the relationship. So I don't know if I count.
> 
> I can say very simply... What's in it for me? I like pleasing my husband but there are plenty of ways to please him that involve pleasure for me too. I'm lucky because he enjoys PIV to oral. He lasts too long with oral like 20 minutes or more and his size versus my mouth just doesn't work well. Just as he's about to cum ( of course just about seems to means could be forever left) he swells which makes it really uncomfortable and hard not to scrap.


For me going down on my wife was easily the most erotic thing I did with my wife. Of course since she was female I didn't really have to worry about size issues.



Anastasia6 said:


> But the craziest thing I hear on this forum is if she doesn't want to have sex she could at least give me a blow job? Really? A quickie is easier than a blow job. And at least even if I don't get an orgasm I at least get some good feelings and take alot less effort than a blow job?


If she's not aroused at all sex could lack any of the pleasurable feeling, could be uncomfortable, or even hurt. Some women have scar tissue caused by pregnancy complications or other medical problems that make PIV sex painful. Hands and mouths don't have that limitation.



Anastasia6 said:


> How many times do men go down on women and then walk off without getting anything themself? And do it over and over again?
> 
> I prefer sex to be pleasurable for both.
> 
> So what do you like oral for so much. It seems like most times oral is depicted as a power trip or something demeaning. Why is it so important to some men?


My ex rarely achieved orgasm with PIV sex and always did with oral. During the last few years of our marriage she rarely liked me enough to want sex but would receive oral at least somewhat regularly and I could get that feeling of closeness and connection without asking for something she wouldn't want to do and getting turned down. I would have done it as often as she wanted to be honest.

In my limited experience sex often involves a certain amount of physical and mental calculus of delaying orgasm for yourself and paying attention to the cues that she is giving consciously and unconsciously about what you are doing *this time* that she likes or not. Receiving oral reduces the mental load a ton while likely ending in an orgasm. Giving oral eliminates the need to pay attention to my own body while being *almost* as much fun.


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## Anastasia6

Hiner112 said:


> If she's not aroused at all sex could lack any of the pleasurable feeling, could be uncomfortable, or even hurt. Some women have scar tissue caused by pregnancy complications or other medical problems that make PIV sex painful. * Hands and mouths don't have that limitation.*



Mouths can definitely get painful and have limitations. 
I think I'm confused about the actual thread. It first talks about BJ's and semen, ejectulation and now it's evolved to all oral contact. Not that it matters but I was specifically saying that Oral to completion shouldn't and doesn't mean everything. I do think oral stimulation is on frequent tap. But I would also say you can be a lot of fun without it.


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## talesofthe-twofoldmother

Well... in my first marriage I totally hated it! he had poor hygiene and didn't groom properly.
In my second marriage when the love was there and we were connected on that level... I loved being the giver! 

Never cared about getting my rocks off, I just truly enjoyed doing it period. For the longest time that was our number one go to... I mean what guy doesn't want that?

I think it all just depends on the woman and what kind of life she has endured when it comes to Sex and all that goes with it.


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## MJJEAN

I like giving oral, but I'm picky. I've had my share of partners, but have given oral to only a handful of them. For me, it's an attraction thing. If I'm very highly attracted I want to give provided my partner is hygienic. If I'm less attracted it's not something that really appeals.


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## Cletus

I will speak for my wife who is not here to speak for herself.

If she has ever given it to anyone, I don't know about it, and I highly doubt it. She finds the whole concept of oral sex, male or female, intensely disgusting. As in just the thought of it makes her a little sick to her stomach. 

Sort of like how I feel about Brussels sprouts.


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## notmyjamie

Just seeing this thread now. I work with a bunch of women who have never and will never either perform or receive oral sex and they are NOT shy about their preference. One woman acts like anyone who is into that is an absolute freak of nature and needs psychiatric help. She once had a patient's partner ask if oral sex was okay since PIV was not safe in the pregnancy. I thought it was a good question. She came out of the room all freaked out an announced how disgusting the guy was and that *that* particular act was not happening in her marriage as if that made her a much more worthwhile human being. LOL 

I think they all just think it's completely disgusting and only *****s do it. I feel badly for their husbands. 

I once told them they have no idea what they are missing and they should give it a try. I think they think I'm a pervert now. And they don't even know yet that I almost married a guy who isn't white!! :surprise:


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

notmyjamie said:


> Just seeing this thread now. I work with a bunch of women who have never and will never either perform or receive oral sex and they are NOT shy about their preference. One woman acts like anyone who is into that is an absolute freak of nature and needs psychiatric help. She once had a patient's partner ask if oral sex was okay since PIV was not safe in the pregnancy. I thought it was a good question. She came out of the room all freaked out an announced how disgusting the guy was and that *that* particular act was not happening in her marriage as if that made her a much more worthwhile human being. LOL
> 
> I think they all just think it's completely disgusting and only *****s do it. I feel badly for their husbands.
> 
> I once told them they have no idea what they are missing and they should give it a try. I think they think I'm a pervert now. And they don't even know yet that I almost married a guy who isn't white!! :surprise:


This is the other "far end" of the spectrum I was believing, just my opinion, that would come out and provide a highlight of those who "well, I certainly never would etc etc". !!


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## Numb26

notmyjamie said:


> Just seeing this thread now. I work with a bunch of women who have never and will never either perform or receive oral sex and they are NOT shy about their preference. One woman acts like anyone who is into that is an absolute freak of nature and needs psychiatric help. She once had a patient's partner ask if oral sex was okay since PIV was not safe in the pregnancy. I thought it was a good question. She came out of the room all freaked out an announced how disgusting the guy was and that *that* particular act was not happening in her marriage as if that made her a much more worthwhile human being. LOL
> 
> I think they all just think it's completely disgusting and only *****s do it. I feel badly for their husbands.
> 
> I once told them they have no idea what they are missing and they should give it a try. I think they think I'm a pervert now. And they don't even know yet that I almost married a guy who isn't white!! <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_surprise.png" border="0" alt="" title="EEK! Surprise!" ></a>


You keep opening like a flower LOL 

I have met women who have refused to give oral but never have met any the way you described. I think I would actually laugh out loud if I heard them


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## notmyjamie

Numb26 said:


> You keep opening like a flower LOL
> 
> I have met women who have refused to give oral but never have met any the way you described. I think I would actually laugh out loud if I heard them


It can be pretty entertaining at times I must admit.


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## VibrantWings

I must be the opposite of some. It's my fave sexual act. 
I like giving oral....don't much care for getting it. If he's down there on me, I'm doing it to please him.

I get more pleasure giving it and that's why I do it. Seems to be win win for the guy if he likes getting it. Only issues arise if I find a man who loves giving it....and I'm not interested in getting it. It's messy, slobbery and I can get myself off much better while giving it. 
But that's just me. I have a couple of stipulations though: keeping it shaved makes it sooo much better for both of us and it's going to be washed first. 
When I tell my guy to "go wash", he knows what's about to happen


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

Along and along there seem some details coming out that there are certain women (that may make up groups?) that won't even consider it but the reasons why, actually, really why they won't isn't broached yet.

There are some physical justifications (as in my gag reflex will never allow it etc) that will be used, and some of that will be reality. 

But some of those justifications will be used as a convenient crutch to deflect from real reasons just imho.

Unless I missed it I've seen no reasons that start with "because it makes me feel..." or "I don't feel my husband...(pick one) deserves it" or other feelings based reasons why a woman won't try or do it regularly. While in some cases a man still does oral on her.

There are discussions "out there" that advise women do or don't do many things because of feelings based wayfinding, I'm trying to be more educated in that area.


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## lifeistooshort

If I'm attracted to a guy and I like/respect him I'm happy to give. I don't care to do it to completion though....not because I have any particular issue with it but because I find it pretty arousing and don't want things to end there. >


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## notmyjamie

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Along and along there seem some details coming out that there are certain women (that may make up groups?) that won't even consider it but the reasons why, actually, really why they won't isn't broached yet.
> 
> There are some physical justifications (as in my gag reflex will never allow it etc) that will be used, and some of that will be reality.
> 
> But some of those justifications will be used as a convenient crutch to deflect from real reasons just imho.
> 
> Unless I missed it I've seen no reasons that start with "because it makes me feel..." or "I don't feel my husband...(pick one) deserves it" or other feelings based reasons why a woman won't try or do it regularly. While in some cases a man still does oral on her.
> 
> There are discussions "out there" that advise women do or don't do many things because of feelings based wayfinding, I'm trying to be more educated in that area.



The women I mentioned above are pretty much in agreement that it is dirty, disgusting, and only a woman with no self respect would do it or receive it. Those are their reasons. They are all older, early to mid 60's and were virgins when they married and are still married to the same man. It might be a generational thing.


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## uhtred

My wife used to think that women giving oral to men was degrading / disgusting. Then for some reason a couple of years ago she started doing it a bit, not does it frequently (in the very infrequent occasions that we have sex at all).

For the discussion it may be worth separating unreciprocated oral, and oral along with other mutual activities.


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## RebuildingMe

Good to know there are women out there like this. I am about to embark on the dating scene again and I will add this to my list of interview questions. If the answer is no, or no to completion....next!


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## Lila

notmyjamie said:


> Just seeing this thread now. I work with a bunch of women who have never and will never either perform or receive oral sex and they are NOT shy about their preference. One woman acts like anyone who is into that is an absolute freak of nature and needs psychiatric help. She once had a patient's partner ask if oral sex was okay since PIV was not safe in the pregnancy. I thought it was a good question. She came out of the room all freaked out an announced how disgusting the guy was and that *that* particular act was not happening in her marriage as if that made her a much more worthwhile human being. LOL
> 
> I think they all just think it's completely disgusting and only *****s do it. I feel badly for their husbands.
> 
> I once told them they have no idea what they are missing and they should give it a try. I think they think I'm a pervert now. And they don't even know yet that I almost married a guy who isn't white!! <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_surprise.png" border="0" alt="" title="EEK! Surprise!" ></a>


I was watching one of those murder mystery shows where the victim was Amish. Her Amish husband had her murdered because she would not perform oral sex. Apparently that's taboo in that religious sect. I wonder how many of your coworkers are from highly religious backgrounds.


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## Lila

RebuildingMe said:


> Good to know there are women out there like this. I am about to embark on the dating scene again and I will add this to my list of interview questions. If the answer is no, or no to completion....next!


I don't know if you have to explicitly ask about the oral sex but definitely mention your desire for someone who does it to completion. I am one of those women who does not like semen in her mouth so knowing up front that this is a deal breaker is a very good thing. Allows both people to not waste time. Sexual compatibility is crucial.


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## lifeistooshort

notmyjamie said:


> The women I mentioned above are pretty much in agreement that it is dirty, disgusting, and only a woman with no self respect would do it or receive it. Those are their reasons. They are all older, early to mid 60's and were virgins when they married and are still married to the same man. It might be a generational thing.


There was a time when men wouldn't dream of asking their wife for something like oral. Hell, guys wouldn't marry women who did stuff like that....not the kind of woman you took home to your mother.

That's what prostitutes were for. Wives weren't even expected to enjoy anything....only to provide access. And women were taught that sex was one of the few weapons they had so best to use it as such.

I'm glad those days are gone. Oral is far more intimate then intercourse, IMO, and as such as great for couple intimacy. Mutually enjoyable sex is great!


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## RebuildingMe

Lila said:


> RebuildingMe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good to know there are women out there like this. I am about to embark on the dating scene again and I will add this to my list of interview questions. If the answer is no, or no to completion....next!
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know if you have to explicitly ask about the oral sex but definitely mention your desire for someone who does it to completion. I am one of those women who does not like semen in her mouth so knowing up front that this is a deal breaker is a very good thing. Allows both people to not waste time. Sexual compatibility is crucial.
Click to expand...

I plan on being very picky when it comes to sex. I’ve reached the age that having kids won’t be an issue, another marriage killer I can avoid.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

lifeistooshort said:


> There was a time when men wouldn't dream of asking their wife for something like oral. Hell, guys wouldn't marry women who did stuff like that....not the kind of woman you took home to your mother.
> 
> That's what prostitutes were for. Wives weren't even expected to enjoy anything....only to provide access. *And women were taught that sex was one of the few weapons they had so best to use it as such.*
> *
> I'm glad those days are gone. Oral is far more intimate then intercourse, IMO, and as such as great for couple intimacy. Mutually enjoyable sex is great!*


Pls see both bolded recaps.

I'm in absolute agreement!

Imho though, in many cases, the sex as a weapon thing could still be in the "is taught" category even in today's world.

Some older women still don't see how less that applies to a man as he reaches a mature age and realizes he's responsible for tolerating or not a woman who repetitively employs that strategy.

A productive man matures and can make his own choices


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## Red Sonja

notmyjamie said:


> The women I mentioned above are pretty much in agreement that it is dirty, disgusting, and only a woman with no self respect would do it or receive it. Those are their reasons. They are all older, early to mid 60's and were virgins when they married and are still married to the same man. *It might be a generational thing.*


Nah, I'm in that age group, oral has always been on the menu. I think it's more of a "bodies are icky" thing, which is a sad attitude but some people (of all ages) are conditioned as such.


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## VibrantWings

RebuildingMe said:


> Good to know there are women out there like this. I am about to embark on the dating scene again and I will add this to my list of interview questions. If the answer is no, or no to completion....next!


Interview questions? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you but tread carefully with that question and any other question pertaining to sex with a woman you haven't met or know. I've had the question....and follow up questions got him blocked. It cames off even worse than a "nice rack" comment.

I wouldn't consider it a question to ask right of way of any person unless they are the one who brings it up- and it's definitely not your right to know the sexual preferences of a stranger.

You're trying to date other human beings...and they also get to decide about YOUR compatibility, too. A man who is assuming gets crossed off my list quickly. 

Do what you want but since you're "jumping back into the scene" I commented.

Yeah I like giving a blow job but I sure as hell ain't just handing them out to just anyone that asks for one.


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## cp3o

ConanHub said:


> The mouth was designed for many things and kissing, caressing and oral sex are among them.
> 
> You are talking with an established theologian with easy access to the original Hebrew and Greek.
> 
> I have had to correct more than one minister about the meaning of certain scriptures.
> 
> The Bible is pretty descriptive about sex in several places.


No sir - just because you have studied the Bible doesn't mean that what you take from it is true. 

The reality is that if our bodies were designed by anything other than random variation moderated by reproductive success the outcome would be considered incompetent at best. 

Only a corrupt town-planner would site the pleasure gardens next to the sewage outfall. No four year old would create an entirely unnecessary risk of choking by confusing our air and food/water tubing etc. etc. etc..

Something can be useful in areas other than that which it evolved for - nothing wrong with winking on occasion - but that's not why we have eyes.

Being a theologian, however erudite, does not make one an expert on the human body any more than being an expert on iron-founding leads to competence at ballet.

........On thread

I don't think I ever had a sexual relationship which involved hands inside clothes where the lady did not perform oral sex. (Though I did have one very elegant refusal - which was subsequently withdrawn). I never requested it and, as was said elsewhere, never understood why anyone should be happy to do it - but I don't recall ever saying no.


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## *Deidre*

What? That's my favorite thing to do. JK! lol It's not my favorite thing, but I like to give my husband pleasure. 

I actually like giving more than receiving. He is great at bringing me to pleasure with oral sex, but it takes me a while to relax as opposed to other positions and methods.

If a woman doesn't want to ever give oral sex, I suppose that is up to her. No one should be forced to perform sex acts they don't like, and there's nothing wrong with anyone who doesn't like to do certain things.


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## Lila

RebuildingMe said:


> I plan on being very picky when it comes to sex. I’ve reached the age that having kids won’t be an issue, another marriage killer I can avoid.


You'll have to post your experiences on the singles thread. I am not sure your age but I don't think you'll have to worry about women interested in having kids or remarriage in the over 40 crowd. If you are interested in dating under 40 then I advise you to get a vasectomy before entering the dating scene so you don't end up an oopsie daddy.


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## Numb26

RebuildingMe said:


> Good to know there are women out there like this. I am about to embark on the dating scene again and I will add this to my list of interview questions. If the answer is no, or no to completion....next!


It's already on the pre-screen list!


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## ConanHub

cp3o said:


> No sir - just because you have studied the Bible doesn't mean that what you take from it is true.
> 
> The reality is that if our bodies were designed by anything other than random variation moderated by reproductive success the outcome would be considered incompetent at best.
> 
> Only a corrupt town-planner would site the pleasure gardens next to the sewage outfall. No four year old would create an entirely unnecessary risk of choking by confusing our air and food/water tubing etc. etc. etc..
> 
> Something can be useful in areas other than that which it evolved for - nothing wrong with winking on occasion - but that's not why we have eyes.
> 
> Being a theologian, however erudite, does not make one an expert on the human body any more than being an expert on iron-founding leads to competence at ballet.
> 
> ........On thread
> 
> I don't think I ever had a sexual relationship which involved hands inside clothes where the lady did not perform oral sex. (Though I did have one very elegant refusal - which was subsequently withdrawn). I never requested it and, as was said elsewhere, never understood why anyone should be happy to do it - but I don't recall ever saying no.


I'm sure you can comprehend that the post you quoted was in no way aimed at you or anyone outside of a very exclusive group. Taking this up with me is like a citizen of New Zealand arguing traffic laws in Russia.


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## Andy1001

RebuildingMe said:


> Good to know there are women out there like this. I am about to embark on the dating scene again and I will add this to my list of interview questions. If the answer is no, or no to completion....next!


Maybe you could ask for references.>


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## RebuildingMe

Lila said:


> You'll have to post your experiences on the singles thread. I am not sure your age but I don't think you'll have to worry about women interested in having kids or remarriage in the over 40 crowd. If you are interested in dating under 40 then I advise you to get a vasectomy before entering the dating scene so you don't end up an oopsie daddy.


I’m 48. I’ve been fixed for 5 years, so anyone wanting kids is an automatic no. I’m still under the same roof as stbx, so there’s that. The “interview questions” was not to be taken literally. However, I know what I want and will take a hard pass on anyone that thinks sex is disgusting, transactional (quid pro quo), a favor, something earned or weaponized. If they are not into it, I won’t be into them.


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## Casual Observer

Red Sonja said:


> Nah, I'm in that age group, oral has always been on the menu. I think it's more of a "bodies are icky" thing, which is a sad attitude but some people (of all ages) are conditioned as such.


There is a certain irony that some here believe those in their 60s are going to be prudish due to their upbringing... the "sexual revolution" pretty much without question began in the 60s and ran strongly through the early 70s at least. Those of us in our 60s now? That's when we came of age.


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## Casual Observer

It's a bit unclear why my wife won't provide oral. She doesn't "like" it. And she complains that manual stimulation is too hard for her hands (arthritis). It could be a subset of other issues in the process of being resolved, basically more guilt about sex and as you move away from what's "required" (the minimum that consulting adults can do and be called "having sex with your husband or wife") guilt becomes an increasingly-greater issue. 

She did go along with "manual" (ok, a hand job) a couple weeks ago, and with some help from me, it worked. I found a way to actually do the hard part while she got credit for it, if that makes sense. 

So maybe part of the issue is simply that it's too much work? And in the case of being submissive to oral (performed on a guy) it can be an almost violent and extraordinarily-selfish-appearing act. Grabbing hair and pulling someone down on you in a way they have to learn not to choke? I think it would be really easy for a woman to get turned off by that if she went into it not being comfortable.


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## Cletus

What's the worst thing a woman can hear after giving Willie Nelson a bj? 

"I'm not Willie Nelson"


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## cp3o

ConanHub said:


> I'm sure you can comprehend that the post you quoted was in no way aimed at you or anyone outside of a very exclusive group. Taking this up with me is like a citizen of New Zealand arguing traffic laws in Russia.


?

You wrote a general post which included _"I wouldn't be with a woman who didn't realize that aspect of what a mouth was designed to do."_
@Diana7 responded - starting with _"To be honest the mouth wasn't actually designed for sex, the genitals were."_

and you replied as I quoted.

I'm possibly a little simple but my comprehension quotient is clearly inadequate. What "very exclusive group" were you aiming at, and how on earth was I to realise that an unqualified post was not intended for general consumption?

PS - Are you suggesting that The Bible is comparable to the Russian equivalent of "The Road Traffic Acts 1988"? Or are you talking of a discussion in Russia about the traffic laws of New Zealand? And who is the New Zealander arguing (why argue?) with - another Kiwi or a Russian? I think we should be told.


----------



## cp3o

duplicate post


----------



## Lila

RebuildingMe said:


> I’m 48. *I’ve been fixed for 5 years*, so anyone wanting kids is an automatic no.


Good decision. The dating world is your oyster. 



> I’m still under the same roof as stbx, so there’s that. The “interview questions” was not to be taken literally. However, I know what I want and will take a hard pass on anyone that thinks sex is disgusting, transactional (quid pro quo), a favor, something earned or weaponized. If they are not into it, I won’t be into them.


I know some may disagree but I think asking questions to determine compatibility (religion, politics, sexual) should be done earlier rather than later, especially for things you consider to be deal breakers. The worse thing to happen is two people avoid the difficult discussions, get to know each other well, like each other but then find out their deal breakers don't jive. If it's really important to you then make sure you mention it early.


----------



## Red Sonja

Diana7 said:


> Its not my favourite thing but its not an issue for us because my husband much prefers PIV to oral anyway. Also there is a LOT that you can do with your hands.:smile2:
> 
> As to why? The same reason that people prefer anything over something else in life, its a preference. Like I prefer some foods to others. No particular reason, but I do think that women have a perfectly good vagina that is specifically designed for the penis in sex,* whereas a mouth isn't designed to stretch* etc.


What?! Every part of the human body, that involves muscle/skin/dermis, is designed to stretch and flex, even your internal organs do so.


----------



## ConanHub

cp3o said:


> ?
> 
> You wrote a general post which included _"I wouldn't be with a woman who didn't realize that aspect of what a mouth was designed to do."_
> 
> @Diana7 responded - starting with _"To be honest the mouth wasn't actually designed for sex, the genitals were."_
> 
> and you replied as I quoted.
> 
> I'm possibly a little simple but my comprehension quotient is clearly inadequate. What "very exclusive group" were you aiming at, and how on earth was I to realise that an unqualified post was not intended for general consumption?
> 
> PS - Are you suggesting that The Bible is comparable to the Russian equivalent of "The Road Traffic Acts 1988"? Or are you talking of a discussion in Russia about the traffic laws of New Zealand? And who is the New Zealander arguing (why argue?) with - another Kiwi or a Russian? I think we should be told.


My response to Diana7 was specifically for her as we are part of a community that you are not.


----------



## cp3o

ConanHub said:


> My response to Diana7 was specifically for her as we are part of a community that you are not.


I didn't realise that.

When I wish to convey something that is specific to an individual I use a PM. 

Since you posted _en clair_, and by doing so potentially misled many readers, I assumed a generally visible correction to be appropriate.


----------



## ConanHub

cp3o said:


> I didn't realise that.
> 
> When I wish to convey something that is specific to an individual I use a PM.
> 
> Since you posted _en clair_, and by doing so potentially misled many readers, I assumed a generally visible correction to be appropriate.


LoL. You can update your data on this barbarian now. When I quote an individual, I'm actually responding to them and what they said in that quote specifically and not making a statement to everyone on the thread.

I enjoyed your sense of humor in the post I liked BTW.:smile2:


----------



## cp3o

ConanHub said:


> LoL. You can update your data on this barbarian now. When I quote an individual, I'm actually responding to them and what they said in that quote specifically and not making a statement to everyone on the thread.
> 
> I enjoyed your sense of humor in the post I liked BTW.:smile2:


Thanks - by the same token; if someone - anyone - posts something I see that can be generally read and I feel is inappropriate, demeaning and/or likely to mislead I will offer my alternative to the same, albeit indeterminate, readership. 

It doesn't matter that I convince people that I'm right - sometimes I'm not - it does, IMO, matter that they know that there are no ideas that may not be challenged. Maybe it encourages some people to think critically - about my views as well as the views of others. 

I call it morality/respect/duty - whatever. 

Others may call it something rather different - perhaps what they call it says more about them than about me.>


----------



## Wolfman1968

notmyjamie said:


> The women I mentioned above are pretty much in agreement that it is dirty, disgusting, and only a woman with no self respect would do it or receive it. Those are their reasons. They are all older, early to mid 60's and were virgins when they married and are still married to the same man. It might be a generational thing.


 Oddly enough, there seems to be many threads in this forum in which wives who declared how "disgusting" it is with their husbands were only too eager to perform it on their affair partner.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Wolfman1968 said:


> Oddly enough, there seems to be many threads in this forum in which wives who declared how "disgusting" it is with their husbands were only too eager to perform it on their affair partner.


And....we're reminded of another whole facet on this multi-pronged topic.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

PS I just reread my response. 

😊 no pun intended 😊


----------



## Middle of Everything

lifeistooshort said:


> There was a time when men wouldn't dream of asking their wife for something like oral. Hell, guys wouldn't marry women who did stuff like that....not the kind of woman you took home to your mother.
> 
> That's what prostitutes were for. Wives weren't even expected to enjoy anything....only to provide access. And women were taught that sex was one of the few weapons they had so best to use it as such.
> 
> I'm glad those days are gone. *Oral is far more intimate then intercourse, IMO, and as such as great for couple intimacy. Mutually enjoyable sex is great!*


Agree.

Sadly many BOYS, and Im using that word on purpose, ruin oral for many men. How many of us have known someone that has said they really didnt have sex with the guy. You know just gave him a blow job (likely to get him to shut up) This is often at the guys pleading. "Come on, if you wont put out, at least a blow job". 
I personally knew a guy who thought he didnt cheat on his girlfriend when he "only" got a blow job for another woman.
Have most here seen the movie Clerks? Funny movie but a point in it where his girlfriend blowing 100 guys or whatever wasnt seen as a big deal.
I myself have had to deal with the after effects of this attitude in my marriage. Paying the price for others minimizing oral sex as just a minor thing you do to get someone off. So not surprising that some view it as gross or an undesirable thing to do.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Middle of Everything said:


> Agree.
> 
> Sadly many BOYS, and Im using that word on purpose, ruin oral for many men. How many of us have known someone that has said they really didnt have sex with the guy. You know just gave him a blow job (likely to get him to shut up) This is often at the guys pleading. "Come on, if you wont put out, at least a blow job".
> I personally knew a guy who thought he didnt cheat on his girlfriend when he "only" got a blow job for another woman.
> Have most here seen the movie Clerks? Funny movie but a point in it where his girlfriend blowing 100 guys or whatever wasnt seen as a big deal.
> I myself have had to deal with the after effects of this attitude in my marriage. Paying the price for others minimizing oral sex as just a minor thing you do to get someone off. So not surprising that some view it as gross or an undesirable thing to do.


This is a great point.

For me anyway, up until the famous "I did not have sex with that woman" statement it did not occur to me that others (mistakenly imo) may not consider a BJ as a sex act.

I mean, it does involve intimate contact with genetalia after all.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Middle of Everything said:


> Agree.
> 
> Sadly many BOYS, and Im using that word on purpose, ruin oral for many men. How many of us have known someone that has said they really didnt have sex with the guy. You know just gave him a blow job (likely to get him to shut up) This is often at the guys pleading. "Come on, if you wont put out, at least a blow job".
> I personally knew a guy who thought he didnt cheat on his girlfriend when he "only" got a blow job for another woman.
> Have most here seen the movie Clerks? Funny movie but a point in it where his girlfriend blowing 100 guys or whatever wasnt seen as a big deal.
> I myself have had to deal with the after effects of this attitude in my marriage. Paying the price for others minimizing oral sex as just a minor thing you do to get someone off. So not surprising that some view it as gross or an undesirable thing to do.



I know a woman who had an affair but made the argument that she only gave him a blow job. I believe her, and her husband knows (let's just say his hands weren't clean either), but I always felt like that was worse than intercourse.

You can have intercourse with anyone and look the other way, but oral is up close and personal.


----------



## notmyjamie

lifeistooshort said:


> I know a woman who had an affair but made the argument that she only gave him a blow job. I believe her, and her husband knows (let's just say his hands weren't clean either), but I always felt like that was worse than intercourse.
> 
> You can have intercourse with anyone and look the other way, but oral is up close and personal.


I feel the opposite. I think of intercourse as much more intimate and personal with much more eye contact. Maybe it's because of the old joke "once you close your eyes you can pretend it's anybody doing it to you."


----------



## cp3o

lifeistooshort said:


> I know a woman who had an affair but made the argument that she only gave him a blow job. I believe her, and her husband knows (let's just say his hands weren't clean either), but I always felt like that was worse than intercourse.
> 
> You can have intercourse with anyone and look the other way, but oral is up close and personal.


The possibility, or not, of pregnancy may affect some peoples opinion?

From another point of view intercourse v. oral is a non-argument.

Undertaking either outside a monogamous relationship can expose the innocent party(s), as well as the cheat(s) to serious health consequences.


----------



## Cletus

lifeistooshort said:


> I know a woman who had an affair but made the argument that she only gave him a blow job. I believe her, and her husband knows (let's just say his hands weren't clean either), but I always felt like that was worse than intercourse.
> 
> You can have intercourse with anyone and look the other way, but oral is up close and personal.


Well, you sure as hell can't look the other way with oral, especially if you have only one eye and a mouth in the proper genetically programmed location. I guess I never considered growing more far sighted as I get older a perk before.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Cletus said:


> Well, you sure as hell can't look the other way with oral, especially if you have only one eye and a mouth in the proper genetically programmed location. I guess I never considered growing more far sighted as I get older a perk before.


Yeah...the one eye is a real buzzkill :rofl:


----------



## lifeistooshort

cp3o said:


> The possibility, or not, of pregnancy may affect some peoples opinion?
> 
> From another point of view intercourse v. oral is a non-argument.
> 
> Undertaking either outside a monogamous relationship can expose the innocent party(s), as well as the cheat(s) to serious health consequences.


Well she's fixed so pregnancy wasn't an issue.


----------



## Diana7

Red Sonja said:


> What?! Every part of the human body, that involves muscle/skin/dermis, is designed to stretch and flex, even your internal organs do so.


The vagina is specifically designed for the penis.


----------



## Buddy400

notmyjamie said:


> I feel the opposite. I think of intercourse as much more intimate and personal with much more eye contact. Maybe it's because of the old joke "once you close your eyes you can pretend it's anybody doing it to you."


I'd love to see some hard data on the "more intimate" question for both genders.

Seems like an area ripe for problems if there's a different opinion between partners.

I'm of the "more intimate" persuasion myself but there seem to many that consider oral (or, at least oral performed on men) no big thing. 

See Clerks.


----------



## ConanHub

Diana7 said:


> The vagina is specifically designed for the penis.


No argument here and the mouth was designed to kiss, caress and suck.:smile2:


----------



## RebuildingMe

Diana7 said:


> The vagina is specifically designed for the penis.


Even if that is true, the penis can’t go anywhere else? That is a lame reason for no oral sex.


----------



## uhtred

It seems that we do a lot of things our bodies were no "designed for" - whether its climbing mountains or kissing, or wearing clothes for that matter. 

OTOH, do we really know what we actions were *were* designed for? If things are enjoyable, isn't it possible its because we are doing what we were designed to do? I enjoy eating chocolate - even in a purely biblical view, weren't humans created far away from the nearest source? 





Diana7 said:


> The vagina is specifically designed for the penis.


----------



## Cletus

I assume the "mouth was made for ..." argument applies to the anus as well, no?


----------



## Middle of Everything

Buddy400 said:


> I'd love to see some hard data on the "more intimate" question for both genders.
> 
> Seems like an area ripe for problems if there's a different opinion between partners.
> 
> I'm of the "more intimate" persuasion myself but there seem to many that consider oral (or, at least oral performed on men) no big thing.
> 
> See Clerks.


Exactly why I cited Clerks as well. Funny ass movie. But I disagree with its minimization of oral. Woman in the movie did "snowballs" for a scurvy AF guy. No biggie. Total number of guys blown was "no biggie". 

To each their own, but I think its a sad way to view an intimate act between a man and woman and thus can lose some of its specialness if its minimized in such a way.

If people are going to view oral as aint no thang, then hell, you might as well make some bank while you can. Could make some easy cash. :x>


----------



## Middle of Everything

Cletus said:


> I assume the "mouth was made for ..." argument applies to the anus as well, no?


I know what you're getting at, but not sure what you're getting at. Or more who this is directed at. Diana?


----------



## pastasauce79

As humans I believe we are always trying to challenge or change our original design. 

Some cultures are a little bit extreme like the African tribe that use lip plates, or the neck stretching tribe in South Asia. All performed in women to either attract men or show they belong to a man. 

Where I live I'm surrounded by people who are changing the original human design. People wear braces, have piercings, have had plastic surgery to change and reduce body parts. Isn't that a change in our original design? Is it bad? Does it work?

Going back to oral sex, if you wear anything to change your original mouth anatomy, would that mean your mouth could be redesign to perform oral sex? 

To tell you the truth, I have never stopped myself and think, "wait, am I designed to do this or that?" I'm aware of my limitations but that doesn't mean I'm not going to at least try it. 

My curiosity is also part of my original design.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

I myself believe it's on the more intimate side of PIV sex.


----------



## ptomczyk11

I started seeing this girl that I really like so far, couple months now, and that's one thing that I have found strange about her; she doesn't touch me or give me oral at all. I've gone down on her and she seems to like it and she definitely likes PIV and even some anal play so not sure why this is off the table.

I tried talking to her about it but she doesn't really give me a direct answer as to why, just says I don't know. I then would mention different scenarios like, is it because you don't feel comfortable doing it and she kind of said that's some of the reason but not sure if I 100% believe her. I'm a fan of foreplay involving both of us touching each other / oral before PIV so it's a bit disheartening that I don't get any of this. Maybe I should try bringing it up again, now that we have been seeing each other more often and maybe feel more comfortable talking about this.


----------



## RebuildingMe

ptomczyk11 said:


> I started seeing this girl that I really like so far, couple months now, and that's one thing that I have found strange about her; she doesn't touch me or give me oral at all. I've gone down on her and she seems to like it and she definitely likes PIV and even some anal play so not sure why this is off the table.
> 
> I tried talking to her about it but she doesn't really give me a direct answer as to why, just says I don't know. I then would mention different scenarios like, is it because you don't feel comfortable doing it and she kind of said that's some of the reason but not sure if I 100% believe her. I'm a fan of foreplay involving both of us touching each other / oral before PIV so it's a bit disheartening that I don't get any of this. Maybe I should try bringing it up again, now that we have been seeing each other more often and maybe feel more comfortable talking about this.


If it’s important to you, get out now. It will only get worse. She’s already shown you what she likes and doesn’t like. Giving head is obviously in her “does not like” column.


----------



## Middle of Everything

ptomczyk11 said:


> I started seeing this girl that I really like so far, couple months now, and that's one thing that I have found strange about her; she doesn't touch me or give me oral at all. I've gone down on her and she seems to like it and she definitely likes PIV and even some anal play so not sure why this is off the table.
> 
> I tried talking to her about it but she doesn't really give me a direct answer as to why, just says I don't know. I then would mention different scenarios like, is it because you don't feel comfortable doing it and she kind of said that's some of the reason but not sure if I 100% believe her. I'm a fan of foreplay involving both of us touching each other / oral before PIV so it's a bit disheartening that I don't get any of this. Maybe I should try bringing it up again, now that we have been seeing each other more often and maybe feel more comfortable talking about this.


Are you saying she wont even put her hand on your penis? Like at all? Yikes. Something I would discuss with her for sure.


----------



## ptomczyk11

Middle of Everything said:


> Are you saying she wont even put her hand on your penis? Like at all? Yikes. Something I would discuss with her for sure.


Haha...yep, exactly! Out of all the women I've been with this falls in "a first for me" category and hence why I find it weird.

I've been on the dating scene now and haven't really connected with someone as I've had with her; so I don't think I ready to just "cut bait" but definitely feel like we need to talk about this again and actually get a straight answer. 

The sex is amazing just wish the foreplay (touching/oral) was existent on her part; she has no issues with me touching/oral on her so I feel like it should be reciprocated at least.

I know she grew up religious, her dad's a pastor, so wasn't allowed to do a lot of things she wanted to growing up. She broke out of that church lifestyle back in her early late teens/early twenties and started doing things for herself but I wonder if this has something to do with the no touching/oral issue.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

She could be an accidental lazy kind of partner; has learned others will do her and as long as she lets them she feels her work is done.

There are some women that believe their part is "just letting a man touch her all over" is her only job.


----------



## Mrdubstar24

As a bloke I enjoy blowjobs but sadly my wife doesn't she will give me one instead of having sex but no matter what I do for her she's not happy but that's not my point I enjoy a blowjob will never say no but I get its a two way street and I am always up for go down on my wife if she gets off I do but sadly she not keen on that I go down on her to "warm" her up as she not into much anything nowa days hence I joined this lovely forum so end of that I love oral and I love to give oral.


----------



## frusdil

I love sex, and love pleasing my husband, I'll give him oral just about any time, right to completion as long as he doesn't come in my mouth. Couldn't do that...ick.


----------



## aine

I enjoy doing it with my H. He enjoys it too 

I cannot imagine doing it with someone I just met (one-night stand scenario). Mind you never was into one night stands either. 
I guess I am an old fashioned gal in this way. In fact, the thought of it repulses me.


----------



## Balto109

I think it maybe a generational thing too... I'm 46 now but when I was 26, I dated a beautiful 40 year old woman for about a year and I remember visiting her in CT the second time. I had gone down on her and she said she wanted to try it and that she had never given a BJ before and that it was not something women usually do. She was really into it, finished, and continued liking to do it. My wife on the other hand does sometimes do it, loves to receive it, but the only issue is she WILL NOT kiss at all afterwords...The crazy thing is she does not have a very strong feminine odor...it's very faint really and I've been with women with a much stronger scent and they never had issues with kissing...


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

I do think it's a generational thing for some women. 

But with encouragement that same generation can realize it's not a "I don't do that, women just don't do that" thing.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

frusdil said:


> I love sex, and love pleasing my husband, I'll give him oral just about any time, right to completion as long as he doesn't come in my mouth. Couldn't do that...ick.


But some women do. I dated a nurse a hundred years ago and in the mouth, swallowing was her thing. It was like an objective for her, always said "mmm, that was good" while I tried not to pass out.

Just sayin'.


----------



## arbitrator

ptomczyk11 said:


> Haha...yep, exactly! Out of all the women I've been with this falls in "a first for me" category and hence why I find it weird.
> 
> I've been on the dating scene now and haven't really connected with someone as I've had with her; so I don't think I ready to just "cut bait" but definitely feel like we need to talk about this again and actually get a straight answer.
> 
> The sex is amazing just wish the foreplay (touching/oral) was existent on her part; she has no issues with me touching/oral on her so I feel like it should be reciprocated at least.
> 
> I know she grew up religious, her dad's a pastor, so wasn't allowed to do a lot of things she wanted to growing up. She broke out of that church lifestyle back in her early late teens/early twenties and started doing things for herself but I wonder if this has something to do with the no touching/oral issue.


*I don't know about the rest of you older heads, but the daughters of pastors and school principals way back when I was a young boy had a noted reputation for being absolutely, sexually wilder than March hares!

If I ever snagged a date with either one of those gals, I'd have thought that I had died and gone to heaven!*


----------



## Numb26

arbitrator said:


> ptomczyk11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Haha...yep, exactly! Out of all the women I've been with this falls in "a first for me" category and hence why I find it weird.
> 
> I've been on the dating scene now and haven't really connected with someone as I've had with her; so I don't think I ready to just "cut bait" but definitely feel like we need to talk about this again and actually get a straight answer.
> 
> The sex is amazing just wish the foreplay (touching/oral) was existent on her part; she has no issues with me touching/oral on her so I feel like it should be reciprocated at least.
> 
> I know she grew up religious, her dad's a pastor, so wasn't allowed to do a lot of things she wanted to growing up. She broke out of that church lifestyle back in her early late teens/early twenties and started doing things for herself but I wonder if this has something to do with the no touching/oral issue.
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't know about the rest of you older heads, but the daughters of pastors and school principals way back when I was a young boy had a noted reputation for being absolutely, sexually wilder than March hares!
> 
> If I ever snagged a date with either one of those gals, I'd have thought that I had died and gone to heaven!*
Click to expand...

Found the same to be true of redheads. 😉


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Numb26 said:


> Found the same to be true of redheads. 😉


I found the same with blondes. :smile2:


----------



## arbitrator

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I found the same with blondes. :smile2:


*Both of my XW's were blondes and the only thing that I could rightfully attest to is that they literally co-authored the book on cheating!

But for the most part, they were what I'd refer to as "quasi-bangers!" Neither took much, if any, initiative! But neither really subscribed to giving oral real well, except to do it for say, probably no more than two minutes only after having been dutifully requested to, and rarely ever to completion, and then, having been orally serviced to completion themselves; both had a serious knack for looking sternly up at you and admonishing you, "Hey! Just look what I put myself through for you!

That's enough ~ I don't want sex now!"*


----------



## happiness27

I probably was fine with a lot of things until I took anatomy and physiology. Also, if a partner has had multiple partners, oral is a pathway for STI. The brief encounter I had with being involved with swingers, I was a bit amused by the general attitude that oral was somehow safer sex. The connection between throat cancer and cunniligus has been established and, to me, it's not worth the risk. 

In my opinion and experience, fingering can apply a lot more pressure variations than mouth/tongue anyway. I can be face to face with my partner. Oral is just a weird angle to view a person's face - especially with crap stuffed in their mouth. To each his own - it's not for me. I've given plenty of times but it's not my favorite thing. My brain goes into this zone where: "What's wrong with my vag?" I already know I have a tight vag because I've had to be treated for it (yeah, there is such a thing as tight vag treatment) - so, idk, I just kind of figured the BJ thing for men was about power/domination/control/forbidden. I find it demeaning.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

However many women don't find it demeaning, and most men don't approach it like it's demeaning to women. 

Many women find it empowering and take control of the encounter.

Different strokes for different folks.


----------



## Middle of Everything

happiness27 said:


> The connection between throat cancer and cunniligus has been established and, to me, it's not worth the risk.
> 
> so, idk, I just kind of figured the BJ thing for men was about power/domination/control/forbidden. I find it demeaning.


First part I call BS

Second part makes me feel sad for you.


----------



## Middle of Everything

Middle of Everything said:


> First part I call BS
> 
> Second part makes me feel sad for you.


Quoting myself to be clear here.

I realize that HPV is thought to maybe lead to throat cancer. So unprotected oral with many partners could eventually maybe lead to cancer.

Us folks in committed relationships don't need to worry about this.

Lastly, all the younger people being inoculated with Gardisil can go to town I guess?


----------



## Nirvanasky

It is something personally, I know some women who would only do it for a special person and they have not found them yet another reason os their religion or cultural background so women are not allowed to perform oral sex


----------



## Young at Heart

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Along and along there seem some details coming out that there are certain women (that may make up groups?) that won't even consider it *but the reasons why, actually, really why they won't isn't broached yet.*
> 
> There are some physical justifications (as in my gag reflex will never allow it etc) that will be used, and some of that will be reality.
> 
> But some of those justifications will be used as a convenient crutch to deflect from real reasons just imho........





notmyjamie said:


> *The women I mentioned above are pretty much in agreement that it is dirty, disgusting, and only a woman with no self respect would do it or receive it. Those are their reasons. They are all older, early to mid 60's and were virgins when they married and are still married to the same man. It might be a generational thing.*


So you have met my wife!



Red Sonja said:


> Nah, I'm in that age group, oral has always been on the menu. *I think it's more of a "bodies are icky" thing,* which is a sad attitude but some people (of all ages) are conditioned as such.


OK, my story. My wife has never given me a BJ. Before we were married, I talked to her about how much I wanted to experience oral sex both giving and receiving with her. She told me that before marriage it was just too intimate. She explained that the nuns at the school she went to said that after marriage anything and husband and wife did was fine. She assured me that after we were married she would.

Spring forward several years after marriage. I brought it up again and she informed me it was too disgusting. She told me that PIV was much more intimate. I reminded her of her promise and what the nuns had told her. She informed me that the nuns had no idea how sick and depraved men were.

Spring forward several decades to when we were in a sex starved marriage and working with a marriage counselor/sex therapist to see if we could salvage our marriage. The ST asked my wife about oral sex. I learned that my wife felt that both her and my genitals were dirty and disgusting and she would never put her mouth on such a filthy part of a body. The ST actually discussed if my wife were to wash my penis to her satisfaction of cleanliness right before sex, if that would change her attitude. My wife said no it would not change a thing. At least the ST got us to start having PIV sex again, which saved the marriage. My wife has huge body self image issues and they have just gotten worse. 

As an aside, besides her view that her V is dirty, as a reason for not wanting to receive oral is that as she has gotten older sometime on laughing or orgasm she can leak a little urine, which means both oral is off the table and PIV has to be controlled as to timing.

Spring forward another decade. A regular marriage counselor helping "tune-up" our marriage. One of the things we did was read together and discuss Schnarch's book Intimacy and Desire. Toward the end after explaining intimacy and desire problems, Schnarch explains his cure for re-wiring the brain to increase desire..........it is oral sex, especially BJ's for women with low libido toward their husband. His explanation is that if forces one to focus on the pleasure of the partner, it is truly "in your face" sexually intimate. It is so intimate that it requires both of you to confront all your sexual vulnerability and approach oral sex as as an active "giving" experience. Talk about scaring the hell out of my wife. I told her that I had long ago given up on the idea of every getting a BJ from her. She cried and said to not give up, but that it probably wouldn't happen.

So you wanted some of the *why* to be explained. I have tried to share what little I know about the topic.


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## Cletus

Young at Heart said:


> So you have met my wife!
> So you wanted some of the *why* to be explained. I have tried to share what little I know about the topic.


So you have met (and apparently married) my wife!


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

Young at Heart said:


> So you have met my wife!
> 
> 
> 
> OK, my story. My wife has never given me a BJ. Before we were married, I talked to her about how much I wanted to experience oral sex both giving and receiving with her. She told me that before marriage it was just too intimate. She explained that the nuns at the school she went to said that after marriage anything and husband and wife did was fine. She assured me that after we were married she would.
> 
> Spring forward several years after marriage. I brought it up again and she informed me it was too disgusting. She told me that PIV was much more intimate. I reminded her of her promise and what the nuns had told her. She informed me that the nuns had no idea how sick and depraved men were.
> 
> Spring forward several decades to when we were in a sex starved marriage and working with a marriage counselor/sex therapist to see if we could salvage our marriage. The ST asked my wife about oral sex. I learned that my wife felt that both her and my genitals were dirty and disgusting and she would never put her mouth on such a filthy part of a body. The ST actually discussed if my wife were to wash my penis to her satisfaction of cleanliness right before sex, if that would change her attitude. My wife said no it would not change a thing. At least the ST got us to start having PIV sex again, which saved the marriage. My wife has huge body self image issues and they have just gotten worse.
> 
> As an aside, besides her view that her V is dirty, as a reason for not wanting to receive oral is that as she has gotten older sometime on laughing or orgasm she can leak a little urine, which means both oral is off the table and PIV has to be controlled as to timing.
> 
> Spring forward another decade. A regular marriage counselor helping "tune-up" our marriage. One of the things we did was read together and discuss Schnarch's book Intimacy and Desire. Toward the end after explaining intimacy and desire problems, Schnarch explains his cure for re-wiring the brain to increase desire..........it is oral sex, especially BJ's for women with low libido toward their husband. His explanation is that if forces one to focus on the pleasure of the partner, it is truly "in your face" sexually intimate. It is so intimate that it requires both of you to confront all your sexual vulnerability and approach oral sex as as an active "giving" experience. Talk about scaring the hell out of my wife. I told her that I had long ago given up on the idea of every getting a BJ from her. She cried and said to not give up, but that it probably wouldn't happen.
> 
> So you wanted some of the *why* to be explained. I have tried to share what little I know about the topic.


Wow. This is indeed at one end of the window of reasons, thanks for contributing. 

Hang in there!


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## notmyjamie

Young at Heart said:


> I told her that I had long ago given up on the idea of every getting a BJ from her. She cried and said to not give up, but that it probably wouldn't happen.


I find that sad. She clearly wants to please you but just can't get past it for some reason. Someone really drove home the point to her that her own body is a bad thing and so is yours. Such a shame :crying:


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## Openminded

notmyjamie said:


> I find that sad. She clearly wants to please you but just can't get past it for some reason. Someone really drove home the point to her that her own body is a bad thing and so is yours. Such a shame :crying:


Unfortunately, not an uncommon message drilled into the brains of most females decades ago (and perhaps still is among certain groups). Oral sex was considered something “nice” girls didn’t do. Sex was PIV only and preferably only missionary with the lights out. There were other rules as well — basically nothing allowed that was much fun. That was the message I was given as a teenager. 

So guess what many men did after marriage? Found a “bad” girl who rebelled against what they had been taught (or they were never taught it in the first place) and delivered what their wives wouldn’t. And many wives accepted their husbands cheating “because that’s how men are.” Certainly there were females who were able to overcome those early damaging messages but many never could. And the fallout from that time often continues today. 

Be glad you are of a later generation.


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## PieceOfSky

Young at Heart said:


> I told her that I had long ago given up on the idea of every getting a BJ from her. She cried and said to not give up, but that it probably wouldn't happen.


Has she tried, or would she ever consider trying, marijuana before being intimate? 


From https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6522945/ ...



> The question of how marijuana leads to these positive changes in sexual function is unknown. It has been postulated that it leads to improvement in sexual function simply by lowering stress and anxiety.13 It may slow the temporal perception of time and prolong the feelings of pleasurable sensations.5, 14 *It may lower sexual inhibitions and increase confidence and a willingness to experimen*t.7 Marijuana is also known to heighten sensations such as touch, smell, sight, taste, and hearing.15 Although this was not specifically addressed in this article, according to Halikas et al,5 the regular female marijuana user reported a heightened sensation of touch and increased physical closeness when using marijuana before sex.


There’s a thread around here somewhere that left me wondering if the drug has something to offer those dealing with drive mismatches.


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## Cletus

PieceOfSky said:


> Has she tried, or would she ever consider trying, marijuana before being intimate?


Good girls who don't give blowjobs also often Don't Do Drugs. Except alcohol. And don't you EVER compare the two.


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## Middle of Everything

Cletus said:


> Good girls who don't give blowjobs also often Don't Do Drugs. Except alcohol. And don't you EVER compare the two.


So not much of an independent thinker eh?:frown2:


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## Cletus

Middle of Everything said:


> So not much of an independent thinker eh?:frown2:


Well, it depends on the subject, but definitely more of a rule follower than me, for instance. Those rules were hammered home hard from the start by a mother who converted from Catholicism to Mormonism during those formative years. But it's hard to separate nature from nurture on these things.


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## Young at Heart

notmyjamie said:


> I find that sad. *She clearly wants to please you but just can't get past it* for some reason. Someone really drove home the point to her that her own body is a bad thing and so is yours. Such a shame :crying:





PieceOfSky said:


> Has she tried, or would she ever consider trying, marijuana before being intimate?
> 
> .....


You need to understand that my wife has some real hangups regarding sex. 

We have tried to work on breaking down some of those hangups, but without much luck. When we were in a sex starved marriage and working with a Sex Therapist, my wife's beliefs shocked the ST, who tried to be polite and say that it was her body and my wife got to make choices, but needed to understand that her choices had consequences. One time we were given some home work, Sensate focus touching with no sex to occur. My wife broke down after I had touched her and ran into the bathroom and locked the door. Later at therapy, she said that she had felt aroused and needed to separate herself from me so she would not have sex with me, which is something she didn't want to do. 

Eventually the ST got us to have PIV sex again in a way that I found emotionally bonding. I feel that my wife does want to please me up to the point of it being too uncomfortable to her emotionally. 

As to marijuana, it is legal where we live, but she really has negative attitudes about it. I would be very afraid of trying it with her and then asking for anything other than the normal sex we have. If it really does heighten sense of smell and taste, I would expect it would freak her out and she would go running to the bathroom and lock the door behind her, should I ask for a BJ with her in an drug induced mood. I don't want to "rape" her in any sense of the word. Besides, not a big fan of the Bill Crosby thing. I am better than that and deserve a willing sex partner, even if it is limited to PIV.

For many decades I felt like there was a bait and switch in our marriage promises. Ultimately, I came to believe that she really thought she could change and that over time her love for me would allow her to overcome her fears and hangups. That is when I came to accept that it just isn't going to happen. Life goes on. Outside a a mismatched sex life (which at least was brought into some basic degree of satisfaction with the help of a really great sex therapist) we have a fairly good marriage. We are good close friends, a good team, good partners, financially trustworthy and stable, like traveling together, enjoy similar hobbies, etc. We are also both active in our grandchildren's lives. So, lot's of pluses.


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## notmyjamie

Young at Heart said:


> You need to understand that my wife has some real hangups regarding sex.


Well, that was painfully obvious with your previous post which is why I felt sad for her. Someone did a real number on her in teaching her that sex is bad and our bodies are dirty, etc. I find that sad for both of you.

That she runs and hides when she feels aroused so she won't have sex with you is really quite astounding. I swear, I'm more and more thankful for my mother the older I get. She taught me that sex is a good thing as long we are careful who we share our bodies with and take necessary precautions, condoms, birth control etc. 

I work with a population of women that have been taught to be ashamed of their bodies, ashamed to let anyone see their body etc. It's SO hard for these poor women. I had one patient screaming on the top of her lungs like she was being raped when I tried to examine her. The way she was screaming you'd have thought I was using a double edge saber and not a Q-tip. I asked her if it hurt this much when she has sex with her husband. She told me they'd only been able to have sex twice and that she screamed just as loud the entire time both times. The only reason she tolerated it was that she was desperate to be a mother. Imagine that??? It's a miracle the poor guy was able to finish. They'd been married for 7 years and only had sex twice. And I've heard that same story over and over from so many women in this culture...married for a long time but in sexless marriages because they can't get over their fear of sex and sharing their body. I find that incredibly sad.


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## Young at Heart

Thank you for your empathy. Sometimes I find it very cathartic to post some of my experiences. I have forgiven my wife.

Your descriptions of some of what you face at least provide me with the thought that it could be worse, much worse. My glass is half full. At least we have PIV sex (twice a week) on a regular basis. After 48 years of marriage and at the age of 70 that is better than many. We really do care about each other.

During some of the extended discussions when we were in sex therapy, the ST asked my wife if she had ever masturbated. My wife answered no and I honestly believed her. When the ST pressed on in disbelief, my wife said if she ever felt that urgent a need she had a husband to take care of such things for her. The sex therapist kept asking questions, my wife finally said that growing up she had been taught that masturbation was a very serious sin and if she even thought about it or worse did it, she would have to go to confession and tell a middle aged male priest about what she had done or thought and he would judge her, tell her how wrong it was and tell her the penitence she needed to do to be forgiven. The thought of saying such things to an adult man was just too humiliating to think about having to do.

Yes she was raised very Catholic, so much so on our first date, I picked her up at the convent school she was at. I always thought young Catholic girls in those little plaid dresses were hot as hell, not messed up beyond belief. Still therapy and marriage counseling have helped a lot. 

Again, thank you for your empathy.


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## MaiChi

Anastasia6 said:


> I do go down on my husband and occasionally to completion. I do it more now than earlier in the relationship. So I don't know if I count.
> 
> I can say very simply... What's in it for me? I like pleasing my husband but there are plenty of ways to please him that involve pleasure for me too. I'm lucky because he enjoys PIV to oral. He lasts too long with oral like 20 minutes or more and his size versus my mouth just doesn't work well. Just as he's about to cum ( of course just about seems to means could be forever left) he swells which makes it really uncomfortable and hard not to scrap.
> 
> But the craziest thing I hear on this forum is if she doesn't want to have sex she could at least give me a blow job? Really? A quickie is easier than a blow job. And at least even if I don't get an orgasm I at least get some good feelings and take alot less effort than a blow job?
> 
> How many times do men go down on women and then walk off without getting anything themself? And do it over and over again?
> 
> I prefer sex to be pleasurable for both.
> 
> So what do you like oral for so much. It seems like most times oral is depicted as a power trip or something demeaning. Why is it so important to some men?


You ask very good questions.


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## MaiChi

Oral is not for everyone and should be seen in that light. 
I do not like to receive it from him because its sort of too sensitive. Maybe once in a while I will let him do it but not regular. He still wants to but I limit that. 
He likes me to give him and I like it too but he never ever wants to finish that way. The maybe two times in 12 years (we did not do it for the first two years) he could not kiss me after so now he does not allow himself to finish. So it is 100% for foreplay.


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