# Living with a narcissist



## Wickedwiggins27 (May 5, 2020)

I'm curious if any other women on here are dealing with a narcissist husband? Does he lack empathy and when you tell him hes making you feel a certain way does he tell you your too sensitive or overreacting? I get this all the time.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Just for reference:

The _Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition_ (DSM-5, 2013) indicates that a person with NPD possesses at least five of the following nine criteria, typically without possessing the commensurate personal qualities or accomplishments for which they demand respect and status:

Grandiosity with expectations of superior treatment from other people
Continually demeaning, bullying and belittling others
Exploiting others to achieve personal gain
Lack of empathy for the negative impact they have on the feelings, wishes, and needs of other people
Fixation on fantasies of power, success, intelligence, attractiveness, etc.
Self-perception of being unique, superior, and associated with high-status people and institutions
Need for continual admiration from others
Sense of entitlement to special treatment and to obedience from others
Intense envy of others, and the belief that others are equally envious of them






Narcissistic personality disorder - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

I don't mean to sound unkind, but the blaming gets old fast. 

I understand that we all need a place to vent at times, but at some point each of us has to take responsibility for our lives.

You chose to marry this person, so my questions are more to do with you and why you would choose to do that. And I have hard time believing he didn't behave this way from the beginning.

If you google 'how to communicate with a narcissist', you could spend days reading all the free material available online.

So, learn how to take better care of yourself.


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## Wickedwiggins27 (May 5, 2020)

Marduk said:


> Just for reference:
> 
> The _Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition_ (DSM-5, 2013) indicates that a person with NPD possesses at least five of the following nine criteria, typically without possessing the commensurate personal qualities or accomplishments for which they demand respect and status:
> 
> ...


I've done alot of research and reading on this disorder hence why I believe he is one. He denies it of course.


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## Wickedwiggins27 (May 5, 2020)

minimalME said:


> I don't mean to sound unkind, but the blaming gets old fast.
> 
> I understand that we all need a place to vent at times, but at some point each of us has to take responsibility for our lives.
> 
> ...


Why I choose to do what? He was not like this before we got married. If you read anything about narcissists you would know that they love bomb you and gaslight you. I'm not blaming him, I'm just curious if most men behave this way. You are kind of rude to someone whom is asking for advice and help.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Yes, I understand - it's all him. So what are you going to do with that information?

You know all the right terminology _for him_.

He's a narcissist. He's love bombed you. He's a gaslighter.

Yet here you still are - the victim. And you must get something out of that role, because you're still participating.

When you've had enough, you'll find a way to put an end to it.

And I'll repeat the advice I gave you above - learn how to take better care of yourself. Stop putting all the focus on him, and be a better you.



Wickedwiggins27 said:


> Why I choose to do what? He was not like this before we got married. If you read anything about narcissists you would know that they love bomb you and gaslight you. I'm not blaming him, I'm just curious if most men behave this way. You are kind of rude to someone whom is asking for advice and help.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

I married a narcissist. I didn’t know it back then, and he drove me insane and the more research I did the more I realized how messed up he is. And how messed up I am if I continue to stay with him. So we divorced. 


You can’t change him. They are master manipulators and they have an inability to love. There is nothing you can do except divorce him.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

I agree with @minimalME

OP I understand she sounds harsh but to me she sounds like someone who has been through this. 

Do me a favor and stop researching narcissists, and start researching people who stay with narcissists. I was one Of them and it was eye opening when I started to focus on myself and my issues. Because people who stay with narcissists are just as troubled.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

But before you bother to learn anything more about living with or being a narcissist, get a diagnosis from a professional, just like you would for an internal injury. 

*Prevalence, Correlates, Disability, and Comorbidity of DSM-IV Narcissistic Personality Disorder: Results from the Wave 2 National Epidemiologic Survey on Alcohol and Related Conditions*


*Results*
Prevalence of lifetime NPD was 6.2%, with rates greater for men (7.7%) than women (4.8%). NPD was significantly more prevalent among Black men and women and Hispanic women, younger adults, and separated/divorced/widowed and never married adults. NPD was associated with mental disability among men but not women. High co-occurrence rates of substance use, mood, anxiety, and other personality disorders (PDs) were observed. With additional comorbidity controlled for, associations with bipolar I disorder, PTSD, and schizotypal and borderline PDs remained significant, but weakened, among men and women. Similar associations were observed between NPD and specific phobia, generalized anxiety disorder, and bipolar II disorder among women; and alcohol abuse, alcohol dependence, drug dependence, and histrionic and obsessive-compulsive PDs among men. Dysthymia was significantly and negatively associated with NPD.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Wickedwiggins27 said:


> I've done alot of research and reading on this disorder hence why I believe he is one. He denies it of course.


Has he ever been assessed?

Why do you think he's one?


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## Wickedwiggins27 (May 5, 2020)

Girl_power said:


> I agree with @minimalME
> 
> OP I understand she sounds harsh but to me she sounds like someone who has been through this.
> 
> Do me a favor and stop researching narcissists, and start researching people who stay with narcissists. I was one Of them and it was eye opening when I started to focus on myself and my issues. Because people who stay with narcissists are just as troubled.


I actually have been working on being the best me. I've even been to 2 marriage counselors. Neither helped. I do what makes me happy now.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

You say you do what makes you happy. Are you going out with family and friends without him? If he reacts unfavorably to your plans - and I assume he does, from what you've said - how do you handle it?


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Wickedwiggins27 said:


> I actually have been working on being the best me. I've even been to 2 marriage counselors. Neither helped. I do what makes me happy now.


Hmm.

What did those counselors say? What are you doing that makes you happy now? What does he do as a response?


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

My ex would never go to a doctor, he thought he knew better than everyone. You don’t need a formal diagnosis to know what you are and aren’t willing to put up with.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

So why are you staying?


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Girl_power said:


> My ex would never go to a doctor, he thought he knew better than everyone. You don’t need a formal diagnosis to know what you are and aren’t willing to put up with.


No, you don't. That's not the point. But your optimal plan of attack, assuming it's more nuanced than simply walk out the door, should include the right choices and be made on expert advice. There is a huge amount of overlap in symptoms for many mental health conditions that make them hard to disentangle even for a professional, who will also know best how to address the problem. 

NPD has become the go-to poor man's diagnosis 'round here for everything from snoring to bunions.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Cletus said:


> No, you don't. That's not the point. But your optimal plan of attack, assuming it's more nuanced than simply walk out the door, should include the right choices and be made on expert advice. There is a huge amount of overlap in symptoms for many mental health conditions that make them hard to disentangle even for a professional, who will also know best how to address the problem.
> 
> NPD has become the go-to poor man's diagnosis 'round here for everything from snoring to bunions.


Does it matter if he’s a narcissistic or just a regular old ass hole? I don’t think it does. 

I know for sure my ex was a narcissist. And I know it’s a rare thing to actually have. Many people have traits of it though.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Wickedwiggins27 said:


> I've done alot of research and reading on this disorder hence why I believe he is one. He denies it of course.


Yet ANOTHER unhapppy spouse *with no medical degree or license of any kind* "diagnosing" her husband as a Narcissist. 🙄 🙄 🙄 

Gosh, I don't see *that* being done 4,759 times a week by angry and frustrated spouses who have an internet connection and Google. No sir. 

*



If you read anything about narcissists you would know that they love bomb you and gaslight you.

Click to expand...

*Newsflash - *ANY* spouse looking to get out of the doghouse and back into your good graces - whether it's because they cheated, lied, gambled away the mortgage payment, drunkenly totaled the new car or *whatever* - might do this same exact thing. It's called "damage control" and lots of people do it when they're looking to cover their asses any way they can if they want to avoid divorce court. This isn't some highly classified, exclusive 'secret weapon' only found in a Narcissist's toolbox. 

I think the poster who suggested you stop Googling and diagnosing your husband and instead look up why you're willing to stay with someone like this was really onto something.


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## Not (Jun 12, 2017)

I was married to what many members here labeled a narcissist but I was never concerned about the label, I just wanted out. I do remember the shock of realizing he may very well be one but that wore off quickly, didn’t matter because I was already planning on leaving and whatever he was would then be his own problem.

The label really doesn’t matter. Are you actively planning on leaving?


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## Mary L (Jun 26, 2020)

Wickedwiggins27 said:


> I'm curious if any other women on here are dealing with a narcissist husband? Does he lack empathy and when you tell him hes making you feel a certain way does he tell you your too sensitive or overreacting? I get this all the time.


. 
I have heard my ENTIRE marriage, I am too sensitive, thats not a problem, you worry too much... 
I don't know if my husband is a narcissist or just lacks empathy and emotional connection to me. 
I know I am fed up of being told I want our home too clean (I am not a neat freak!! I want people to clean their messes), I worry too much, I am too sensitive, etc. 
The more I grow the more I see issues thats always been there.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

minimalME said:


> I don't mean to sound unkind, but the blaming gets old fast.
> 
> I understand that we all need a place to vent at times, but at some point each of us has to take responsibility for our lives.
> 
> ...


You do need to understand that we women are taught to put up with poor behavior more so than men are. That somehow we can work it out.

Thankfully, I escaped that mind set before marrying. But I do wish that I had learned not to put up with it much sooner. Instead of wasting valuable dating years.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

I agree with you.

And I do understand, and I've definitely put up with my fair share of bad behavior. 

But much of what I've gotten out of life has been because of my own choices. And I have to take responsibility for that, and it's only been in the past 4 or 5 years that I've fully done that. I'm 53, so it's taken me a long time.

So, I reiterate what I wrote in the post, we need to take responsiblity for our choices and take better care of ourselves.



NextTimeAround said:


> You do need to understand that we women are taught to put up with poor behavior more so than men are. That somehow we can work it out.
> 
> Thankfully, I escaped that mind set before marrying. But I do wish that I had learned not to put up with it much sooner. Instead of wasting valuable dating years.


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## StartingOverHopeful (May 3, 2018)

Hun, it really doesn't matter if he's a narcissist or not. He is cruel. You have to decide whether you want to stay with a person who is cruel to you.

My H was like that (married 25 years). He eventually had an affair and it resulted in his girlfriend getting pregnant. It destroyed our marriage and worse, it destroyed our daughter.

For the prior two decades, my H would say I was "too sensitive" and when you are in the thick of a marriage like that, you can't see very clearly. After the affair came out, I had a hard time leaving. I didn't know if things were bad enough. I would tell friends what he was saying or doing, and they would look at me in shock--"I can't believe he does that to you." I started to realize I was pathetic, like a battered woman. I had no bruises, except inside, in my heart.

I am not sure why you are so interested in the narcissist label, because that's a personality disorder, not a mental illness like depression. You can't take a pill to treat narcissism. You don't "heal" or "manage" it. If he's cruel, he can reverse that if he wishes, but in my experience (decades) it always reverts. Ultimately if he has no respect for you, no compassion for your welfare, no kindness, he will always return to his set point. My H's set point was "I matter and you need to make sure my needs are met, please don't have needs of your own that I must fulfill."

Sorry to bear this bad news. 

Ultimately, if you want to live with his cruelty because the other perks of marriage are worth it to you, I can't blame you. I did it for two decades, until the affair/illegitimate child blew it all up. Be warned. I hope yours is snipped


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

First of all, he's gaslighting you because if he is a narcissist, HE can never be wrong. So it has to be your fault. I have a sister who is one. She also flies into rages with the least criticism. I wouldn't be subjecting kids to that. It's not okay. And it's not treatable, as far as I know. Narcissism is on a scale, so it can be a little or a lot. I have narcissistic traits, but unlike most, I also have empathy. But the narcissist who doesn't have empathy is closely akin to a sociopath. If keeping him is optional, I'd opt out.


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## Vanicky (Jul 22, 2020)

Wickedwiggins27 said:


> I'm curious if any other women on here are dealing with a narcissist husband? Does he lack empathy and when you tell him hes making you feel a certain way does he tell you your too sensitive or overreacting? I get this all the time.



My therapist believes my ex husband has narcissist tendencies (she can’t diagnose). 

He made my life miserable for years. His ego was everything. His social media was extremely important to him. He actually complained that I didn’t ”like” his posts enough or brag on him publicly as much as he wanted.

He has a Art piece in his bathroom that says “Good Morning Handsome.” He gave it to himself.

His Facebook page is pictures of himself.

He becomes enraged if he is second guessed on anything.

I could go on and on. You aren’t overreacting.


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## /ˌlaNG ˈzīn/ (Sep 5, 2021)

Wickedwiggins27 said:


> I'm curious if any other women on here are dealing with a narcissist husband? Does he lack empathy and when you tell him hes making you feel a certain way does he tell you your too sensitive or overreacting? I get this all the time.


I can try and help you if you are still here?

A big, fat yes to your questions above. I find that it can be comforting when you can relate to another person going through the same issues whether you exchange stories or just listen and lend a hand. I'll try and do both however just a word of caution, I'm still in the marriage so I don't know how healthy it actually is for me to be offering you some help here because though I am no longer in love with him I am still coming from a place of love, loyalty and I think, hope? Is it because we have a history and two children (one biological, one not)? I have no idea. I'm still trying to figure everything out.

I believe that this is quite important for me to point out to you right now... You are not weak, you are not selfish and you sure as h*ll don't deserve to be shamed or blamed. Anyone who treats you with a lack of tact, empathy and compassion for you and your situation shouldn't be advising s**t imo and that goes for therapists, relationship coaches, family and friends. If you find that someone is treating you in this fashion ignore them and continue to reach out for help; don't feel ashamed, embarrassed or hide yourself away, you need all of the support you can get right now, even if it means that you have to discuss it over and over again for any of it to make sense. I understand, it's a shock to the system and it feels like your whole reality is no longer your reality and that you feel like you've married a complete stranger. For me, I saw first hand how awesome he was with my little girl; I experienced only the attentive, kind, loving, nurturing, sincere, empathetic, passionate guy he was. I had no idea there was another side to him or what was in store for me.

My husband is a Covert Narcissist but has accepted and admitted it openly just recently. It is still very much on his terms and only when it suits him and definitely not during the devaluing and discarding phases. Like you, I experienced the love bombing, devaluing and discard cycle. For me, the cycle began very early on into our relationship and hasn't stopped. Unfortunately, I didn't have a broad range of knowledge on mental or emotional abuse and to be honest, not a great deal of experience (apart from my step-mother); my step-mother was like an, in your face school kid bully, whereas my husband did it one slow drip at a time so I didn't recognise what was actually occurring until much, much later into our relationship (right before Covid hit), that's when I was diagnosed with CPTSD which I found out was from years of Narcissistic abuse and that is still something to this day that my husband refuses to take accountability for. It has been a decietful and long road, one in which we're still traveling on, but at least it's now out in the open, there is no more questioning my own sanity and I am no longer in the dark or confused about what has been going on over the duration of our relationship. I'm aware that some people aren't keen on labels/diagnosis and say it doesn't matter, but I beg to differ and for many reasons. In my humble opinion labels/diagnosis can and do matter. It can provide peace of mind. It can answer many questions. It can help you to understand. Most importantly, it allows you to seek the right treatment and make the best decisions for you. I can't tell you how many times I asked myself what I was doing wrong to be treated the way I was by him. I would ask him what I was doing or not doing that made him so miserable, but he couldn’t provide me with a straight answer. So I looked into self help books, researched online, therapy - you name it - because I was made to believe that it was all me. I did whatever I could to try and better myself and my relationship. My husband's label/diagnosis allowed me to exhale. His diagnosis/label told me that it wasn't all me and that it wasn't all in my mind. Don't get me wrong, I will always take accountability and responsibility for my shortcomings, but I no longer alow him to take everything out on me or blame everything on me.

I don't know where you are emotionally and mentally atm - you may have parted ways with your husband by now? But if you're still together due to circumstances or you simply just want to stay together (for whatever reason that may be), do you think your husband would be open to therapy at some point down the road? If it helps at all I'd also share my experience with you about how/when my husband was diagnosed, therapy (by ourselves and together), his family history of PD's, etc. Ask any time! 

Speaking of therapy... If you have children and you don't mind me making a suggestion, I would recommend maybe you looking into them seeing someone who can help them express and work through what they are going through - even if you have to hide it from your husband for the time being. I say this because your children are just as effected by this as you are and they too need the tools to effectively and successfully work through their relationship with their father and make healthy decisions about future relationships and most importantly, themselves. My children are seeing a professional and they are both aware of their father's condition. While I have to speak with my children on different levels (my eldest is special needs), I am completely open and transparent with them about everything. I try to do my best and I thank goodness that they are both old enough to understand this. 

How did you and your husband meet? Did you know him prior to dating him? Did he show any signs early on? Red flags? Any suspicions? My husband and I met online (not dating site). He lived in Europe and I in the US. I wasn't looking for anything at the time, it just kind of happened. 7 months after talking to him online then to video calls I agreed for him to come over for a visit and my father carried out a background check on him before he came over. All good, nothing shady. However, looking back during the, "getting to know him" phase (both online and face to face), I can see the shade and the red flags now; but back then I was waaay too trusting of people in general and pretty much took what they said at face value; I was probably a little on the naive side too due to the fact that I didn't have much experience in toxic relationships, apart from two others which funnily enough were all back to back after a significant trauma (rape). I'm not sure whether or not you experienced this while dating; but months into our long distance relationship that gut feeling of, "this is too good to be true", came over me. In fact it brought me to break things off with him one night and he managed to talk me right back into staying with him (RED FLAG). I also suggested that since we had lived thousands of miles away from each other that I was cool with him seeing other people just as long as he was honest with me about it. And I got the old, "you're the only person I want to be with", bs. Days into his visit he was already discussing marriage and said that he'd like for us to try for a baby (RED FLAG). He flew back home and a few days later told me he was going to visit his "friend"( neglected to disclose to me that it was his ex gf), from his University (College), days (LOLOL REDDD FLAAAG). The next time he came to visit (1 month later), he proposed and shortly after I got pregnant and I'll never know if I got pregnant from a genuinely faulty or tampered with condom (RED FLAG). He said because he had a good job back in his country to return to, we were going to move there - no discussion (RED FLAG). I can't say that I was thrilled, I did try to argue my case about staying in the US (for my daughter, my family, my pets, my friends, my home, my job), but he was adamant about moving back to his country. 3 months later my daughter, unborn child and I were on a plane to a foreign land. And that's when I met the real him...and his family. Jeesh, talk about vile. Family is also something we can delve into if you find that your in-laws have caused problems, dislike you or your children - even your husband.

Maybe you can relate to this as well? I find research to be tricky. There are many people out there who have been f'ed over by the Narcissist and end up becoming bitter, hateful, angry & resentful so when they take to a platform like Social Media claiming they are here to help you, all you seem to get is the wrath of their own, negative feelings and while I can empathize with those people and those exact feelings I don't want that to be the foundation of my recovery process and personally, I didn't (and still don't), find that approach helpful or constructive. So if you haven't already begun your research, I would like to recommend two individuals for you to watch on YT when you have some free time. 
Dr. Ramani is a clinical psychologist. She has a plethora of educational videos that are well presented and covers so many subjects on Narcissism. She is a survivor of Narcissistic abuse (her father), but seems to keep everything down the middle. Then there is someone who I found just recently, Mental Healness that I believe is worth a mention. Lee is a self aware Narcissist. He does repeat himself throughout some of his videos but that doesn't bother me too much and like Dr. Ramani, Lee covers many topics but from a Narcissist's perspective; he trys to help both the Narcissist and their loved ones. 

Dr. Ramani:
















Mental Healness:











Also, apologies if I asked questions you've already answered through the thread, I didn't have a chance to read through every page. 

Take good care of yourself.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Girl_power said:


> Does it matter if he’s a narcissistic or just a regular old ass hole? I don’t think it does.
> 
> I know for sure my ex was a narcissist. And I know it’s a rare thing to actually have. Many people have traits of it though.


Was he diagnosed in a clinical setting? 

It’s not a rare thing to have, more common than we think. just under-diagnosed because they rarely take their behaviour far enough to a doctor (they don’t have a problem). An arrest or other incident usually happens and they’re formally diagnosed. 

Many won’t even make it that far, but there will be a history, a pattern. Somewhere there will be a trail of children from different fathers/mothers, fines, workplace incidents, court hearings etc. If there’s a disregard for workplace, family or traffic laws, even moral laws, even without a formal diagnosis, you’re likely dealing with one. ‘I am above the law’ is key. Otherwise, it’s usually just a very selfish juvenile little person.


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