# From your experience, what's happening here?



## Zyria (Jan 23, 2017)

Lately I have felt distance in my marriage. DH doesn't seem to want to talk to me, and it's left me feeling lonely in the relationship. He is incredibly cordial and nice, but is not engaging me in any conversation outside of the day-to-day minutia. For not-so quick background, my husband had shared with me some months ago (during this most recent pregnancy) that he wasn't happy. He had a list of things about both myself and himself that he wanted to see changed. Most of the issues he has with me stem from resentment he has built of the years about my having the more dominant personality in the relationship. Being together for so long, he certainly experienced my stubborn and more independent twenties, and now my more reasonable (but certainly not perfect) thirties. 

The big problem for me is that he seemed normal and happy, and only after really forcing relationship conversation did I learn my husband was in an unhappy marriage. I didn't think it was perfect either, but this was the first time I started to really see we might not make it. After a lot of tears I really focused on the changes he needed. Be more affectionate, less critical of the small stuff, more cautious to not interject in his parenting moments, etc.

We were doing great for the weeks leading up to the baby, but like a switch it just flipped to being more like roommates. This morning he brought me coffee and kissed me good morning. You would have thought everything was great. Then when I told him I'd like us to talk more and about how I had been feeling, he told me that he isn't sure why he wants to avoid me at times and that he has come to like me less and less over the years. In my mind I'm thinking that what he is telling me feels insurmountable. I don't know how to be close to someone that I know doesn't like me. More than anything it just made me sad. 

When he seemed to think I might be overreacting I asked him to just tell me he was committed to working on it. But he wouldn't say it. As I stood there crying, he wouldn't say a single thing to reassure me that he still wanted to try, other than to say if he was leaving he would've left already. Anything more and and he felt that it would be me dictating the terms of our relationship and telling him what to say when.

I am lost on how to read where we are from one day to the next. I can't help but shutdown and go into bit of self-preservation mode. I fear this resentment is incurable no matter what concessions I make. I don't want to be walked out on by surprise. I would rather start preparing myself now. Am I overreacting? Thank you so much for enduring the length of this post.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

I'm so sorry your going through this. Your husband is infuriating me when I read about him because he just doesn't seem sure, which is mean and unproductive. He isn't happy, but he doesn't know what he wants so he doesn't have a solution. He just wants to be a grump and do nothing and your suppose to wait around for him to choose you, or not choose you. It's not fair.

If I were you I would prepare for the worst just in case. This is incredibly hard to do, fight for your marriage but detach mentally and emotionally to protect yourself for the "just in case". He NEEDS to give you direction though. He NEEDS to make a decision.... fight for the marriage and see how it goes or throw in the towel. It's not fair to you. Ask him what he wants and expects you to do? Because it's not fair, sit there broken heart waiting for him to choose you? See what he says. 

I hope he doesn't drag this on waiting for you to end it with him because he is too scared and too much of a p*ssy to do it.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

That's what couples therapy is for. You're both focused on protecting yourselves. An independent person can help get past that. But don't settle for a bad therapist - it may take several to find one who can help


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Zyria (Jan 23, 2017)

I appreciate your responses very much. 

In the time since this post he has come to me and shared a genuine desire to make things work, to better understand my needs and how to make our marriage a priority. With the new baby, work, etc he has it last on the priority list. We have a difference of opinion there, but we each are trying.

I am not at all convinced that the next argument won't dredge up another round of resentment and anger towards me. You would think one of us cheated, had an addiction or something more obvious to overcome. But we don't. I am cautiously optimistic, while continuing to educate myself on all potential outcomes because regardless of recent words, I am ina marriage with someone who doesnt know why he doesn't want to talk to me or spend time with me sometimes. We are both willing to talk to a third party for perspective. Fingers crossed.


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

I'm sorry but your husband sounds done.

Once a person get there, usually there's no going back. 

Sure you could try couples counseling and independent counseling, you can force relationship talk and try to do things differently and hope for change. 

But the odds are you're just spinning your wheels. 

Even in a relationship where there's no obvious reason for problems and the couple is generally on the same page with most everything, sometimes they just grow apart and the feelings fade. 

Best thing you can do for yourself is start to seriously consider that this thing isn't going to go the distance and start mentally and physically preparing for it, that way you'll at least feel some semblence of control.

One thing not to do is to continue pestering/begging/crying to him about it because that will only work against you for so many reasons that are beyond the scope of this particular post.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

TheTruthHurts said:


> That's what couples therapy is for. You're both focused on protecting yourselves. An independent person can help get past that. But don't settle for a bad therapist - it may take several to find one who can help


I agree--once people no longer feel emotionally safe in their relationship (which neither of you do right now), they start to build walls to protect themselves. Once those go up, it's very hard to bring them down again... but a good therapist can help with that.

You also need a therapist to work on some very problematic communication issues--which is that the two of you are pretty much not communicating at all, especially your husband. His resentment built up over the years because there were things about the relationship that bothered him, and instead of him coming to you and working out those issues, he kept it to himself and it built up and accumulated over time, so now it's this huge thing.

From what little you've posted, I'm guessing that your husband suffers from Nice Guy Syndrome. He didn't want to rock the boat, so he kept his complaints to himself and handed the reins of the relationship over to you. Like a lot of men, he misunderstood the "happy wife, happy life" adage (or he doesn't understand what really makes a woman happy). He voluntarily gave you all the power in the relationship, and now he resents you--for something of his own doing.

If you both want it, I think the marriage can be saved. I don't think either of you is too far gone. BUT it is going to take some real work, he's going to have to be open to seeing his own flaws and make some big changes, and the dynamics of the relationship will likely change. You'll never again have the marriage you had when you were both happy--but if you work at it, you may find something even better.


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## Zyria (Jan 23, 2017)

FeministInPink said:


> His resentment built up over the years because there were things about the relationship that bothered him, and instead of him coming to you and working out those issues, he kept it to himself and it built up and accumulated over time, so now it's this huge thing.
> 
> From what little you've posted, I'm guessing that your husband suffers from Nice Guy Syndrome. He didn't want to rock the boat, so he kept his complaints to himself and handed the reins of the relationship over to you. Like a lot of men, he misunderstood the "happy wife, happy life" adage (or he doesn't understand what really makes a woman happy). He voluntarily gave you all the power in the relationship, and now he resents you--for something of his own doing.


This is 100% accurate! Spot on. It's how he would describe it as well. He had begun IC to discuss this and some other things he wanted to work on for himself. Its so awkward on the other end of it.. like I never had a fighting chance to make improvements and now it may be too late.
@browser Thank you for the feedback. I agree with the actions you shared. I'm done with the needy and pathetic look. 100%.

The thought of two like-minded and kind people, who love and care for each other, spending the majority of their lives together only to drift apart for no obvious reason is maybe the saddest fate I could imagine.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Zyria said:


> This is 100% accurate! Spot on. It's how he would describe it as well. He had begun IC to discuss this and some other things he wanted to work on for himself. Its so awkward on the other end of it.. *like I never had a fighting chance to make improvements and now it may be too late.*
> 
> @browser Thank you for the feedback. I agree with the actions you shared. I'm done with the needy and pathetic look. 100%.
> 
> The thought of two like-minded and kind people, who love and care for each other, spending the majority of their lives together only to drift apart for no obvious reason is maybe the saddest fate I could imagine.


If he's going to IC now and he is working on these issues right now, don't worry about the bolded statement just yet. If he owns the way his behavior damaged the relationship, I think you'll have a chance to fix things. He's the one who never gave you and chance in the first place, he owes you at least that much--and I'll think he'll see what a disservice he did to you, if he sticks with the IC. Yes, you'll have work to do, but I think he'll also be asking your for forgiveness at some point. Just give it time.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Zyria said:


> This is 100% accurate! Spot on. It's how he would describe it as well. He had begun IC to discuss this and some other things he wanted to work on for himself. Its so awkward on the other end of it.. like I never had a fighting chance to make improvements and now it may be too late.
> 
> @browser Thank you for the feedback. I agree with the actions you shared. I'm done with the needy and pathetic look. 100%.
> 
> The thought of two like-minded and kind people, who love and care for each other, spending the majority of their lives together only to drift apart for no obvious reason is maybe the saddest fate I could imagine.


It's almost like you're paying for your spouse's inability to communicate and now it's all being blamed on you, like your some bad person or something. Unfortunately I don't see this getting better since your H seems to be done no matter what you do. There's no amount of therapy that can fix that.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

jb02157 said:


> It's almost like you're paying for your spouse's inability to communicate and now it's all being blamed on you, like your some bad person or something. Unfortunately I don't see this getting better since your H seems to be done no matter what you do. There's no amount of therapy that can fix that.


Sadly, that could be the result as well.

I still think there is hope, if he sticks with the therapy and acknowledges the damage he's done, and really wants to change things. It can happen.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

FeministInPink said:


> Sadly, that could be the result as well.
> 
> I still think there is hope, if he sticks with the therapy and acknowledges the damage he's done, and really wants to change things. It can happen.


I'm not so sure that he will admit that he's part to blame for this, and even if he does, he has to want to fix it. I'm really sorry for the OP, there's no affair or substance abuse involved here so at the surface it looks like something that you can fix. Her H doesn't seem to want to.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

jb02157 said:


> I'm not so sure that he will admit that he's part to blame for this, and even if he does, he has to want to fix it. I'm really sorry for the OP, there's no affair or substance abuse involved here so at the surface it looks like something that you can fix. Her H doesn't seem to want to.


That's why I keep saying *IF*.


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## release2016 (Dec 30, 2016)

Zyria said:


> ...
> 
> We were doing great for the weeks leading up to the baby, but like a switch it just flipped to being more like roommates. This morning he brought me coffee and kissed me good morning. You would have thought everything was great. Then when I told him I'd like us to talk more and about how I had been feeling, he told me that he isn't sure why he wants to avoid me at times and that he has come to like me less and less over the years. In my mind I'm thinking that what he is telling me feels insurmountable. I don't know how to be close to someone that I know doesn't like me. More than anything it just made me sad. ...


I *so *feel for you Zyria - reading this made me well up. He sounds so cold and out of reach. I hope he will open up in MC and also inbetween MC session with you alone at home. Meanwhile, you need to take extra special care of yourself, 180, work towards solving the issues between you but at the same time prepare for the worse and find ways to help yourself become stronger and more positive in case you ultimately end up splitting.


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## Zyria (Jan 23, 2017)

release2016 said:


> I *so *feel for you Zyria - reading this made me well up. He sounds so cold and out of reach. I hope he will open up in MC and also inbetween MC session with you alone at home. Meanwhile, you need to take extra special care of yourself, 180, work towards solving the issues between you but at the same time prepare for the worse and find ways to help yourself become stronger and more positive in case you ultimately end up splitting.


Thanks for this. These words help. Things have been going well in the past few days. He has opened up to say he loves me and is committed to working through it. We are getting along well and moving through the daily routines of kids, jobs, pets, etc. 

The thing I find strange is that he has not pursued getting a counselor yet (he will need to do it through his employer). Even just to sit down and us pick one. It's sort of like when things are going well the problem disappears..until they inevitably stop going well. As long as his needs are met, it seems like he finds no additional effort is required. That probably reads more selfish or intentional than the actual situation is. He is back to being his more affectionate and approachable self. But to your points, I want to keep pushing for some change in routine or action taken on his part to address the concerns I had about making our relationship a priority..and keep putting energy into improving and preparing myself for all possibilities.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Zyria said:


> Thanks for this. These words help. Things have been going well in the past few days. He has opened up to say he loves me and is committed to working through it. We are getting along well and moving through the daily routines of kids, jobs, pets, etc.
> 
> The thing I find strange is that he has not pursued getting a counselor yet (he will need to do it through his employer). Even just to sit down and us pick one. It's sort of like when things are going well the problem disappears..until they inevitably stop going well. As long as his needs are met, it seems like he finds no additional effort is required. That probably reads more selfish or intentional than the actual situation is. He is back to being his more affectionate and approachable self. But to your points, I want to keep pushing for some change in routine or action taken on his part to address the concerns I had about making our relationship a priority..and keep putting energy into improving and preparing myself for all possibilities.


The fact that he isn't motivated to find a counselor is discouraging.

Have you told him that you need him to take on more of a leadership role in your relationship? He complains about you being the dominant one in the relationship, and that's only the situation because he hasn't taken up the mantle of being the leader. (You may not want to say it exactly like that.) He needs to grow up, stop following, and start leading.


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## Zyria (Jan 23, 2017)

FeministInPink said:


> The fact that he isn't motivated to find a counselor is discouraging.
> 
> Have you told him that you need him to take on more of a leadership role in your relationship? He complains about you being the dominant one in the relationship, and that's only the situation because he hasn't taken up the mantle of being the leader. (You may not want to say it exactly like that.) He needs to grow up, stop following, and start leading.


I have, which is why I am hesitant to keep reminding/asking him about this particular item..because I am the reminder-er and driver of all things.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Zyria said:


> I have, which is why I am hesitant to keep reminding/asking him about this particular item..because I am the reminder-er and driver of all things.


You know what? Then he can't complain that you're the dominant one in the relationship. It's his own fvcking fault for not taking charge. He just wants to play victim.

Men (people) like this drive me crazy!!! They want to be in charge/dominant, but they are PA and won't make an effort in taking the lead.

Your husband needs to read _Married Man Sex Love Primer_. The author, Athol Kay, is a total scum-of-the-earth PUA douche canoe, but this book is good, and all men should read it.

ETA: I actually read a great article about how many women find themselves being the reminder-er and driver of all things. It's part of the unrecognized emotional work that women put into their lives and relationships on a daily basis, and which mostly goes unrecognized and unacknowledged by the men in their lives. If I can find it, I'll post it.


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## Zyria (Jan 23, 2017)

You are my spirit animal.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Zyria said:


> You are my spirit animal.


Me? Shucks! I just hope I can give you some good advice


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## Zyria (Jan 23, 2017)

Long day but things are looking up.


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## release2016 (Dec 30, 2016)

FeministInPink said:


> You know what? Then he can't complain that you're the dominant one in the relationship. It's his own fvcking fault for not taking charge. He just wants to play victim.
> 
> Men (people) like this drive me crazy!!! They want to be in charge/dominant, but they are PA and won't make an effort in taking the lead.
> 
> ...


*YES *- and seems like even if they want to end a relationship - they have no backbone, so behave unreasonably, in turn leaving it up to the woman to take the lead and end things.


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## Davidmidwest (Nov 22, 2016)

do this immediately- somehow he thinks or picked up a vibe you made towards a non repairable moment he is afraid or too ashamed to bring up, it could be perceived due to a negative childhood coping mechanism he has no clue of, or you made too many love bank withdrawals. It really don't matter, Quick fix to get the dialogue going to get into therapy. 
Do and say this...I feel we have both been distant. Maybe it is eveying we've been through. I miss our closeness, Can you let me know how I can learn what your are going through so I can support and love you more. Wait for an answer. He may confide in you right way. just listen. you could comment like. Gee I had no idea what pressure you are on. Please share with me so I can love and support you, or just listen because you work hard for us. I miss our closeness very much, I need to connect with you on an emotional level and if I feel good on that level, I am game for anything romance related. I need you. You just validated his manhood, protector, and appreciated buttons. He will smile internally at this. This is important to a man, just as much a woman needs to bond emotionally with their man to have sex.

When men have orgasms, the stronger they are, the more Oxytocin hormone is released in his blood stream that makes it instantaneously have a boding feeling towards you. It is scientifically proven. When his moodiness feels manipulative keep your boundaries, but lovingly ask questions. with I feel. If you use "you did, or You didn't you just closed off the moment for a loving fixable recovery. If you fudge it, ask for his forgiveness to open a door for a loving repair. Slowly you can reconnect where he has more empathy to your needs and moods. He is just closed off right now.

Finally, This is long but if you read further and do below you got a good excellent chance for a better marriage. I learned from below when it was to late. That is why I am so wordy. I want to help before things get bad..

Here it goes...
Hi,

Both of you do this to renew, commit to working on the relationship, sex, romance, communication, therapy by a trained therapist by John Gottman, Ph.D. If you both decide to give it a go do this too. Go to a Dr. John Gottman Ph.D's marriage seminars, listed to Dr. Gottmans Audio CD book called. "what makes love last." Six Audio CD's and appendixes that you both complete to understand your relationship, communication style, trust and betrayal levels that if you do not attune to will ultimately lead to divorce. He can tell up to 75% accuracy who will divorce. This relationship scientist knows beyond scientific fact how to fix marriages to the pre-marital bliss state for the most part for most couples. Read and do all the book work and self and together practice to bet back that spark, or feeling to begin a new in a trust and safe place together.

In Recap
Give a deadline for her to choose to comeback and start loving.
Listen and be supportive, No you did statements to her, If she does them to you stay neutral, say I hear you, then say is there anything else that I need to hear that I had not asked or in-tune to understand. You just opened a door for a pleasing discussion or peace that she feels heard.
See a therapist
Do read, listen, and practice the stuff from the book I mentioned above. It will list everything you both to learn that you had no clue what both of you were doing wrong. Once you start this book you are not going to believe how you both have been sabotaging real intimacy to love where you leave, separate or divorce from the relationship. I am not talking sex her. That is later in the book.

Work on the tips and master them. Your marriage should become what hoped for and dreamed of.
If you are at a point that you feel that there is no chance. It's o.k. Read, listen, and do the exercises because it will only make you wise, relate better, and understand why we treat a stranger better than our spouses.

Good Luck.

David


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

You need to do some of the things that he enjoys doing. He may feel trapped and a bit stir crazy.

With an infant in the house this is going to be challenging for a couple of years. Some men get resentful when a baby puts them on the back burner. The baby comes first.

It is not a proper response but is a real and common feeling with new fathers. Tell him when the baby gets older you want to share in his activities, give him hope.


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## Zyria (Jan 23, 2017)

I do appreciate everyone's posts. Forgive me that I had somehow missed the last two and and now reading your guidance closely.

I've been really trying hard guys....being more intimate and making an effort to do more of the family activities he enjoys. But even though things seem happier and fun, I am still not feeling him really want to be my friend again. I think I may never see a bold action taken on his part to make this work. For example, still no counselor appointment, even after I shared my disappointment about it not being a priority. I think he thinks everything is better because we are physically close. He doesn't know I've called two attorneys. 

I'm just really hurt, but want to be careful not to take any legal actions that I know would devastate our family and end in a result I might forever regret.


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## release2016 (Dec 30, 2016)

It's so difficult when you feel you are the one making all/almost all of the effort to keep things going or to take things forward. Especially if you don't know or understand why the person isn't as enthusiastic as you feel they should be. No easy answers for this though.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Zyria said:


> I do appreciate everyone's posts. Forgive me that I had somehow missed the last two and and now reading your guidance closely.
> 
> I've been really trying hard guys....being more intimate and making an effort to do more of the family activities he enjoys. But even though things seem happier and fun, I am still not feeling him really want to be my friend again. I think I may never see a bold action taken on his part to make this work. For example, still no counselor appointment, even after I shared my disappointment about it not being a priority. I think he thinks everything is better because we are physically close. He doesn't know I've called two attorneys.
> 
> I'm just really hurt, but want to be careful not to take any legal actions that I know would devastate our family and end in a result I might forever regret.


His lack of reaction makes me wonder if there is indeed someone else. It may be time to start doing a little digging.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

release2016 said:


> *YES *- and seems like even if they want to end a relationship - they have no backbone, so behave unreasonably, in turn leaving it up to the woman to take the lead and end things.


I have a friend who does this to the women he dates. I love him dearly, and he's one of my closest friends, but I hate this one single thing about him, and we've talked about it, but he sees nothing wrong with it.

When he decides he doesn't want to see a woman anymore, he won't break up with her. He just intentionally changes his behavior and becomes the Worst. Boyfriend. Ever. (TM) so the woman will have no choice except to dump him, so he doesn't have to do it himself. He has received some incredible tongue-lashings and amazing, brutal emails detailing all his horrible behavior and why he's a terrible boyfriend, and it all just... rolls right off his back. Taking all of that, and actually plotting his bad behavior, seems like less of an effort to him than just breaking it off with the woman. It's absolutely mind-boggling, especially because it runs completely counter to the rest of his personality and character. It is completely illogical.

Sorry for the slight threadjack, @Zyria. I just had to share. Back to the regularly scheduled programming.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Zyria said:


> I do appreciate everyone's posts. Forgive me that I had somehow missed the last two and and now reading your guidance closely.
> 
> I've been really trying hard guys....being more intimate and making an effort to do more of the family activities he enjoys. But even though things seem happier and fun, I am still not feeling him really want to be my friend again. I think I may never see a bold action taken on his part to make this work. For example, still no counselor appointment, even after I shared my disappointment about it not being a priority. I think he thinks everything is better because we are physically close. He doesn't know I've called two attorneys.
> 
> I'm just really hurt, but want to be careful not to take any legal actions that I know would devastate our family and end in a result I might forever regret.





release2016 said:


> It's so difficult when you feel you are the one making all/almost all of the effort to keep things going or to take things forward. Especially if you don't know or understand why the person isn't as enthusiastic as you feel they should be. No easy answers for this though.


 @Zyria In order to fix a failing/broken relationship, both people need to want to fix it and be willing to put in the effort. It sounds like he just isn't invested in trying.

How long are you willing to be the only one working at it? No matter how hard you try, you can't drag him along into a healthy relationship. (My MC said that to me about my XH, who was similarly apathetic as your H.)


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## Zyria (Jan 23, 2017)

It's been an exhausting 24 hours. To keep it short, he called me and I was terse with him, which is absolutely true I was preoccupied with something else. So then he texted me to tell me that my behaving like that is just one of the reasons why he doesn't like talking to me anymore. And at that point I just told him that I had had enough of hearing all the reasons why he doesn't like me and being the only one working on making changes for the other. I told him I talked to an attorney and that he should be with someone who makes me happy and to stop reminding me that I'm not that person.

He seemed genuinely sad and said that he thought we were doing better. But then it happened....he just said okay and asked what the next steps were. And it was right there that I knew he was never gonna fight for this marriage.

Now I feel like I have no choice I have to go through with it. I'm devastated.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Zyria said:


> It's been an exhausting 24 hours. To keep it short, he called me and I was terse with him, which is absolutely true I was preoccupied with something else. So then he texted me to tell me that my behaving like that is just one of the reasons why he doesn't like talking to me anymore. And at that point I just told him that I had had enough of hearing all the reasons why he doesn't like me and being the only one working on making changes for the other. I told him I talked to an attorney and that he should be with someone who makes me happy and to stop reminding me that I'm not that person.
> 
> He seemed genuinely sad and said that he thought we were doing better. But then it happened....he just said okay and asked what the next steps were. And it was right there that I knew he was never gonna fight for this marriage.
> 
> Now I feel like I have no choice I have to go through with it. I'm devastated.


Oh, honey, I'm sorry... but you deserve to be with someone who will fight for you and your marriage. And he's not that person. I know it's hard, but it will get better, eventually... and someday, you will say to yourself, why did I wait so long to divorce him? Why did I try so hard and so long for someone who clearly couldn't do the same for me?

He's doing the the thing that my XH did... he's being apathetic and placing all the blame on you to make you miserable, until you get fed up and file yourself. Because he doesn't want to have to be the bad guy, but he doesn't want to do the work to fix the marriage, either.

If the similarities are to be believed, and if this continues in the vein that I think... he's not going to put up a big fight over the divorce. You can use a mediator, and as long as you're fair with him regarding settlement and division of property, he'll likely agree to most anything. A man who is this apathetic about the marriage isn't going to invest all his time and effort with a difficult, litigious divorce, which means if you talk to him about it before he hires an attorney, you can do this peacefully and without a huge financial loss for both of you. And if you can do that, it will be better for both of you in terms of your emotional health, and better for the kids. But I guarantee, you will have to do ALL the legwork. He'll only lift a finger to sign the paperwork, and that's it.


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## release2016 (Dec 30, 2016)

This is so sad and so hard Zyria, but at least you know where you stand now instead of years and years to come of bending over backwards to try and make things the way they should be, whilst all the time your H is effectively an unknown sabateur. 

It's so painful but try and think of it as _the beginning of the end of the pain_ and if you cannot manage to move forward in leaps and bounds, then inch forward, but do keep moving. 

I think it's important you take good care of yourself right now so try and eat, drink and exercise right and in turn this should help you to support yourself emotionally. I don't know if you have anyone close you can confide in right now but, especially if not, try and be your own best friend, and do what's right for you. Be kind to yourself, and it's time to be at least somewhat selfish i would say.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

FeministInPink said:


> I agree--once people no longer feel emotionally safe in their relationship (which neither of you do right now), they start to build walls to protect themselves. Once those go up, it's very hard to bring them down again... but a good therapist can help with that.
> 
> You also need a therapist to work on some very problematic communication issues--which is that the two of you are pretty much not communicating at all, especially your husband. His resentment built up over the years because there were things about the relationship that bothered him, and instead of him coming to you and working out those issues, he kept it to himself and it built up and accumulated over time, so now it's this huge thing.
> 
> ...



Please share. I'm being serious. Knowledge I seek.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

manwithnoname said:


> Please share. I'm being serious. Knowledge I seek.


Share what? If you want more info on Nice Guy Syndrome, click on the link. It's a free e-book, and there is LOTS of knowledge in there.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

FeministInPink said:


> Share what? If you want more info on Nice Guy Syndrome, click on the link. It's a free e-book, and there is LOTS of knowledge in there.



Share what really makes a woman happy. I've read through NMMNG but I'll have to re-read.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

manwithnoname said:


> Share what really makes a woman happy. I've read through NMMNG but I'll have to re-read.


I'll PM you. I don't want to jack Zyria's thread with our own side discussion. Deal?


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## FrazzledSadHusband (Jul 3, 2014)

FeministInPink said:


> You know what? Then he can't complain that you're the dominant one in the relationship. It's his own fvcking fault for not taking charge. He just wants to play victim.
> 
> Men (people) like this drive me crazy!!! They want to be in charge/dominant, but they are PA and won't make an effort in taking the lead.
> 
> ...


OR, is this a relationship where when the husband does start making decisions, doing things, and proceeds to get nothin but crap in return.

"Why did you load the dishwasher that way?"
"Why did you put the baby in the crib before closing the diaper pail?"

There are people that seem to thrive on conflict, picking apart everything there spouse does.

They need to realize that there is NOT just one way of doing things. There can be multiple paths to a successful outcome.

The husband may be a nice guy, He does not want to hurt her feelings by telling her "Shut yer yap and do it yourself if you don't like how I do things."

NOT saying you are this way OP, but if your husband were to start being more independent and taking charge, would you be happy, or happy to start b!tch!n about how he does things??


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## FrazzledSadHusband (Jul 3, 2014)

Zyria said:


> I do appreciate everyone's posts. Forgive me that I had somehow missed the last two and and now reading your guidance closely.
> 
> I've been really trying hard guys....*being more intimate* and making an effort to do more of the family activities he enjoys. But even though things seem happier and fun, I am still not feeling him really want to be my friend again. I think I may never see a bold action taken on his part to make this work. For example, still no counselor appointment, even after I shared my disappointment about it not being a priority. * I think he thinks everything is better because we are physically close.* He doesn't know I've called two attorneys.
> 
> I'm just really hurt, but want to be careful not to take any legal actions that I know would devastate our family and end in a result I might forever regret.


Do YOU know the order of your husband's 5 love languages? If Intimacy is at the top, YAAAA, he's going to think things are going better!!! Who's playing the martyr now???? Talk about manipulative! I will give him sex & talk to the attorneys on the down low.

Don't get me wrong, your husband should know your 5 love language order as well. It's a two way street!

Buy or I think it may even be free on the net somewhere - No More Mr. Nice Guy. Give it to your husband.

The Happy Wife Happy Life mantra has [email protected] up your husband. I was there also. Tried to do everything to make wife happy.

Wasn't until I finally read the book & realized "I can't make her happy, that has to come from within herself", that life got better.

That, and realizing my wife is one that needed to hear "paraphrased" Ya don't like it, there's the door!. 

Why do some women need to be told that before they realize life's not so bad???


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## FrazzledSadHusband (Jul 3, 2014)

Zyria - I understand your wish for your husband to call the counselor. My wife was very resistant when I told her to call. It wasn't until I said "You need to show me you value our marriage by making an appointment" that she called.

I also to an extent understand talking to attorneys. When I found out my wife had talked to counselor about everything BUT the reason she needed to (high school rape), then I told her "Talk about what happened to you or I will file".

I got crabby earlier because you are sending mixed signals to your husband. He's probably very confused right now.

Let me give you something to print out (without editing) and give to your husband,

To whom it may concern:

Your wife is unhappy. You need to show that you value your marriage by calling a counselor and setup counseling for BOTH of you.

Now, this is not a total "Hang the Husband out to dry" meeting. Before this meeting, you need to read the book "No More Mr. Nice Guy" . Because you probably want nothing more than your wife to be happy, but by always putting her needs, and your kids first, it is affecting how you interact with your wife.

Your wife will have requests for you. Make her be specific. Don't let her say "I wish he would do more housework" or "I wish he would help more with the kids". These are non-specific terms that allow the bar to be ever raised and you won't be doing enough, EVER.

Also, if there are things she does, such as always calls you to pick up items on the way home, yet she never does the same because she is "too busy", then bring it up.

Your wife has lost respect for you, you can't NICE that back. If she never takes a shower with you or never lets you see her naked with the lights on, bring it up.

Mr. to whom it concerns, if you & I were sitting at a bar I would tell you to do the following.

1. Read No More Mr. Nice Guy
2. Knock over that pedestal that your wife is on. Rainbows & Unicorns do not emanate from her arse!
3. Make sure you take care of the kids, take care of yourself. 
4. Own your own sh!t. Deal with your issues.
5. Hit the gym, be the best lookin you YOU can be.
6. Read Married Man Sex Life Primer. Google the term sh!t test.
7. Your marriage comes FIRST, before the kids. 18 years from now, the kids will be gone.
8. Take your wife on dates, spend time with her.
9. Hold her accountable. If you bust your arse meeting her needs, and she gives you continual refusal of intimacy, let her know that she has her own sh!t to deal with.

Mr., what do you have to lose? She doesn't respect you now, and is ripe for some POS sleazeball to talk his way into her panties.

Either you will have a better marriage where both of you are happy, OR, you will be in better shape mentally and physically to meet someone new.

Best of luck!


Added - well , my browser wasn't showing the posts where it sounds like this marriage is over. I'll leave posts for anyone that wants to comment.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

FeministInPink said:


> You know what? Then he can't complain that you're the dominant one in the relationship. It's his own fvcking fault for not taking charge. He just wants to play victim.
> 
> Men (people) like this drive me crazy!!! They want to be in charge/dominant, but they are PA and won't make an effort in taking the lead.
> 
> ...




FIP, did you post that article, the gist resonates with me and I would like to read it. The sad thing is once the female stops doing the emotional work (or for some reason is unable to) the whole thing falls apart, been there done that.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

aine said:


> [/B]
> 
> FIP, did you post that article, the gist resonates with me and I would like to read it. The sad thing is once the female stops doing the emotional work (or for some reason is unable to) the whole thing falls apart, been there done that.


I never did go back and look for the exact article that I read, I've been pretty busy as of late. I thought I might still have it open in my phone browser, but I checked and I do not.

However, this google search has a lot of articles on the subject.

It doesn't bring up the exact article that I read, which was more of a personal account, showing the abstract theory in action in her personal experience. The author of the article I read discussed how she is the one who remembers/notices all the little things that keep their home and family running smoothly, things that her husband simply doesn't notice, like running low on toilet paper, or kids' school stuff (like permission slips, pajama day, "don't pack peanuts in your kids lunch because this kid is allergic," recital is on this day sort of things). She remembers what kind of peanut butter the kids (and her husband) will or won't eat, that sort of thing. It's not a "let's bash men!" article, it's more about recognizing the different roles that men and women take on in relationships, and because her husband doesn't notice these things, all her effort in this area goes unrecognized and unappreciated, typically, and how she came to terms with that fact, and how she made her husband more aware of all those things that she does.

(ETA: So her article doesn't exactly address what I've mentioned in the above paragraph; I may have read a follow up or an additional article/post by someone else, and conflated the two. My apologies.)

I did find this blog post, which is similar, but it's still not the one that I read previously: Love That Max : I am the person who notices we are running out of toilet paper, and I rock: A Mother's Day tribute to moms everywhere

EDIT: (Not really an edit, but I found the original article while I was writing this post!) The original article I read, which is a more academic/scholarly reflection on the above post, can be found here: Gender Gap: The Invisible Workload That Drags Women Down | Money


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

You can see a more complex analysis of the problem of emotional labor here: "Where's My Cut?": On Unpaid Emotional Labor - The Toast - The Toast

And for personal anecdotes of emotional labor, visit: Metafilter's Thread On Emotional Labor, in PDF Form | The Mary Sue

ETA: The PDF is really fascinating.


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