# Could use some non-judgmental advice



## smr2500bus (Oct 15, 2012)

Hi all,

Brief backstory - in Sep 2012, I found out my WS was having an EA. While NC was originally promised, I had caught her on 3 subsequent times chatting with him. When I finally had enough and exploded, she stopped chatting with him and has NC since.

A month later, completely unrelated to the first man, my WS had a "slip up" and had a 1-day talk with an old friend from high school. While it started out innocent, within a few minutes it turned to sexting. When I found this out (I had installed monitoring software), it just about ended my marriage. We went to counseling and she immediately ended all contact and hasn't resumed since.

We were on a path to R and things were going well.

About 2 months ago, my wife and I took a short vacation. On this vacation, we met a bunch of guys and they all took a liking to us. I was a bit uncomfortable, since the whole thing with the other men was just a few months old. After the trip, one of the guys found my wife on FB and friended her. I felt extremely uncomfortable with that. She promised she would unfriend and not have contact with him. She did unfriend, however, on more than one occasion, they have FB messaged each other. There has been NOTHING in any messages to make me feel it was uncomfortable or inappropriate. Just joking with each other back and forth. She had expressed to him that they can't be friends because of me.

But she never tells me about the messages. I see them, I still will monitor occasionally, and I guess I'm just tired of being told "I won't talk to him anymore", yet she does and then deletes the messages right after. 

So what do I do? I am angry and while we are not fighting, I am much less loving to her than I usually am and she can pick up on that. When she asks me if anything is wrong, I say "No." because i don't want to get into another fight where I confess to checking her FB (I tell her I try not to do that anymore, though its hard not to).

I think I have to come to the conclusion that while her actions aren't malicious to me, she's selfish enough to do what she wants to do, regardless of my feelings, as I've asked her on many occasions not to have any more contact with him.

Her last couple of conversations (which have been brief nothings) again have no "gotcha" moments. 

I guess I'm more angry that she won't respect my wishes considering our past, more than thinking that this is going to lead to cheating. He lives far away, we've been doing amazing (aside from these incidents). I guess I'm asking if I'm being unreasonable in that she can't have some random male friend because of her mistakes in the past. Or am I being foolish that she does what she wants and I'm the irrational one if I get upset about her talking to another guy with no sexual references whatsoever.

I think this guy wants to get with her, but have no proof that's the case. What guy wants to befriend a good looking 35 year old mom of 2 just to be buddies. That's just naive, right?

Any thoughts?


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

You are not naïve. Neither are these other men. She is putting herself out there. For an affair. Don't let her minimize it. There is NO reason to have guys you only briefly met on a trip, talking to her and her keeping silent about it.

If it happened once, I'd say it was a misunderstanding or a screw up. Twice? Nope. Three times or more, plus lying by omission about it and openly defying your request to stop?

You have a woman seeking an affair, my friend. And she knows it. If the situation were reversed, what would SHE be saying to YOU about this stuff? Would she ever tolerate it? My guess is not in a million years.

You have EVERY right to demand no more male friends. 

(BTW, why the request for "non-judgmental" advice?)


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## BeenthereDunThat (Nov 27, 2012)

smr, your wife has some serious boundary issues and her actions are disrespectful to you.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Soooo her reasons that she can't be friends with him is 'because of you'? 

That's lame. Her reason should be because she respects your marriage and doesn't want to mislead you to think something that isn't true.

And she should block him on FB.

Buuuuut, she doesn't. She flirts.


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## smr2500bus (Oct 15, 2012)

Any advice on how to deal with this? I feel like telling her I saw again isn't going to lead to anything but the same discussion. But I don't know if I'm ready to pull the trigger and talk D. I'm not sure what to do, but I am TERRIBLE at hiding my feelings and I know this is going to come to a head when I get home from work today....


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## NatureDave (Feb 19, 2013)

What ever happened to decorum, good common sense, and boundaries?

It is in no way appropriate for man to correspond with a married woman in private or one-on-one. If these guys met you as a couple and want to remain friends, then they should be corresponding with YOU, the husband. At the very least, you should be included in all communications.

Being married, I would never dream of having these kind of private chats with someone of the opposite sex.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

If you tell her that you know about this, you will most likely have to reveal that you have a key logger on the computer. So be careful how you disclose. You might want to make having a keylogger on the computer a requirement for you to continue that marriage. If she knows you can look at what she is doing, it might keep her from doing it. Or she might just find another way.

It’s interesting that she is communicating with him and yet using some self-control in that she is doing it without it going to sexting. Perhaps it’s her way of feeling like she still has some control in her life… not giving you 100% control over herself. But she still does not cross the line.

Do you have any female friends in real live or online?


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## smr2500bus (Oct 15, 2012)

Dave, that's my feeling, too.

My wife (even before we ever met) has always "clicked" better with men than women.

I was never like this before she cheated on me. And now I'm afraid I'll never NOT be like again. I hate what it has done to me.


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

If you need further proof, you need to get good at gathering evidence without tipping your cards.

You need a VAR where she may talk privately, and check for a second phone somewhere she may hide it.

Does she password-protect her phone and computer? Do you have access to her social media accounts?

Also, you may be able to see evidence already by checking the call and text logs on her phone bill. This is what initially tipped me off - 100 texts the first week to a guy half-way across the country from us.

Most BS's show up here really surprised, scared, and disoriented. I know I sure was. Sometimes you need to do surveillance just to convince yourself you're not crazy - is that what you feel like?

If you KNOW it's an affair, then surveillance is for one of two purposes - 1) to have the hard proof a WS cannot deny, thus forcing a confession, or 2) to gather evidence for a D if adultery even matters where you live.


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## smr2500bus (Oct 15, 2012)

Hi Elegirl,

Yes, I do. All that I have know for a while, before the affair. And she has still has the male friends from before the affair. It's this new guy - and I'll be honest - he's very intimidating to me because he's tall, good looking, younger, etc.

She has told me time and again that she loves me and now that I've changed (a lot was going wrong in the marriage which started the initial affair) she has told me and shown me on many occasions that she has never been happier and I believe her. I know that there is nothing more than talking via FB going on with this guy, and there hasn't been a discussion to tell me otherwise.

She knows that I still look at her stuff, even when I try not to.

I guess just the whole thing pits me against myself - "You need to trust her. Just because she's talking to some guy doesn't mean she is going to cheat on me." vs "This is a total lack of disrespect considering what she has told you and the past. You deserve someone who isn't going to lie to you."

I guess I don't trust her still even though I tell her I do. This whole thing has me feeling sick to my stomach...


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

I guess the simple answer is: you first need to know what YOU want.

Do you want to fix this or just find out the truth and divorce? 

Either answer is fine; no answer is fatal.


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

smr2500bus said:


> Hi Elegirl,
> 
> Yes, I do. All that I have know for a while, before the affair. And she has still has the male friends from before the affair. It's this new guy - and I'll be honest - he's very intimidating to me because he's tall, good looking, younger, etc.
> 
> ...


1) NO MORE MALE FRIENDS. She has proven she lacks the self control to have them. Establish that boundary immediately.

2) Do not tell her you aren't going to be verifying. It's obvious she needs it. SHE did the cheating, not you. The guy friend may be a friend of hers but he is in no way a friend of your marriage. She is choosing to continue this association, and lie to you about it, rather than respect your boundaries.


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## smr2500bus (Oct 15, 2012)

Texas,

I have been down that road. It was the most terrible weeks/months of my life, so I know what's at stake.

I used to have software on her iPhone. I have since removed. I have checked cell phone records from carrier and there's been nothing. Again, I'm 99.999% sure they have never communicated outside of the FB messages. 

I don't know what I want - well, I do. I want someone who will not cheat on me and respect what they promised to do. I don't want to get divorced and I love my wife. I am not sure what the next steps are... I've been telling myself this "Well, it's clear that she will do what she wants to do... now the question is (barring it's not cheating), can you live with that? Or is it a dealbreaker? I just don't know what the answer is...


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## smr2500bus (Oct 15, 2012)

Oh and TX, when asking for the non-judgmental advice - reason for that is I got reamed over the coals when I originally posted on this board and not sure I could go through all the hurt again... (most people on this board have been hurt, are still hurt and give advice of what they wished they would have done in their case. A lot of is was way out of bounds, so didn't know if I wanted to be vulnerable like that again).


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

smr2500bus said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Brief backstory - in Sep 2012, I found out my WS was having an EA. While NC was originally promised, I had caught her on 3 subsequent times chatting with him. When I finally had enough and exploded, she stopped chatting with him and has NC since.
> 
> ...


Sorry to say she has some real mental / emotional problems. She is a serial cheater IMO.

I would insist she close her FB account. This is not beacuse of you but because she is continually unfaithful to you.

This all said, since you have confronted several times on the incidents you know about and she conti ues tell her you have had enough and that if she continues down this road any more you will need to move on. If you have no kids I would suggest that you get this fixed now or just move on. Life is too short.

I can only guess you got reamed because folks felt you were not assertive enough. Idunno. BUT, you can now see why they were pushing you if that was the case. If someone suggested you were jealous, insecure or controlling on the other hand ... they were just clueless.


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

smr2500bus said:


> Texas,
> 
> I have been down that road. It was the most terrible weeks/months of my life, so I know what's at stake.
> 
> ...


I would honestly tell her what you just wrote. That this behavior is cheating in your eyes, and you cannot live with worrying about it. Either she understands and respects that, your you need to move on.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

You need rules in your marriage, plain and simple.

You get to look at all her stuff...She has no male friends, she has no secrets...

And you and she both welcome these requirements as great thing that demontrate your mutual commmittment to each other.

You are conflicted becuase your wife's improper definition of marriage is leading you.


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

Okay, now I get a little bit of why this keeps happening.

I know you are hurt; many of us are. But I bet you were very passive about dealing with this before, and got a whole lot of "tough love" when you first posted here, right?

That won't likely change, because the symptom (mainly you are being very weak and passive) continues.

Did you ever do the "180" the last time? Ever pick up the books that are recommended here? If not, and if you are afraid of a stranger in cyberspace typing out a nasty comment in a random thread, then you most definitely need to start working on you.

Women in general need a man they respect, and that starts with the man respecting HIMSELF. She doesn't seem to think your threats or wishes are important enough to honor, because maybe you don't assert and then back up what you want with concrete action.

I was very "beta" too when my wife found a younger, hotter guy to flirt with. Instead of hiding from it, though, I took the other road, and confronted it head-on. I urge you to do the same. PM me if you'd like to talk about some of this privately.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

smr2500bus said:


> There has been NOTHING in any messages to make me feel it was uncomfortable or inappropriate. Just joking with each other back and forth. She had expressed to him that they can't be friends because of me.


Nope. She can't be friends because of her. She's the one basking in the attention off men on the internet.


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## In The Dark (Aug 24, 2011)

People are treated the way they allow themselves to be treated. You just have to decide whether you will allow your wife to treat you this way on not. I have to remind myself of this same advice sometimes so you are not alone. Good luck.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

smr2500bus said:


> Dave, that's my feeling, too.
> 
> My wife (even before we ever met) has always "clicked" better with men than women.
> 
> I was never like this before she cheated on me. And now I'm afraid I'll never NOT be like again. I hate what it has done to me.



In my experience as a woman, women that "click" better with men require and enjoy lots of attention from men. They often make poor partners precisely because they are always on the lookout for more male attention.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

smr2500bus said:


> It's this new guy - and I'll be honest - he's very intimidating to me because he's tall, good looking, younger, etc.


 Be honest with yourself. She is talking to this guy because she does find him more attractive than you, and this guy knows it. She even told him that you do not want her talking to him, so every time that they chat behind your back it strokes his ego at your expense. There is no reason that your wife should meet a guy on a trip with you and then keep him as a secret friend, with you out of the picture. He is playing it cool right now, but in time he will make his move. 



smr2500bus said:


> She has told me time and again that she loves me and now that I've changed (a lot was going wrong in the marriage which started the initial affair) she has told me and shown me on many occasions that she has never been happier and I believe her. I know that there is nothing more than talking via FB going on with this guy, and there hasn't been a discussion to tell me otherwise.


 Wow talk about you buying into the blame shifting for her affair. She cheated on you in the past because "a lot was going wrong in the marriage which started the initial affair" but "now that I've changed" she does not feel that you deserve being cheated on right now. Dude, there is never a good reason to cheat. She cheated because she wanted to cheat and then looked for reasons to justify it. All cheaters do this because no marraige is perfect, yet they try to hold you to a standard of perfection that they do not hold themselves to. Cheating never fixes a marraige. No one deserves to be cheating on. Stop buying this bull and never let her sell you on this cheater's logic again.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

smr2500bus said:


> She had expressed to him that they can't be friends because of me.





smr2500bus said:


> She has told me time and again that she loves me and *now that I've changed* (a lot was going wrong in the marriage which started the initial affair) she has told me and shown me on many occasions that she has never been happier and I believe her.


You didn't have problems with that first statement (amazingly), and you accept the second. So she see's you as being OK as a serial cheater. You seem to accept that it's your fault, after all.

You need to get tough. I can see why you got reamed.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I don't think you can trust her. She may connect better to men than to women but she could be just friends with them in the past but now she may be using them to validate her attractiveness. I think it is are related, she may be feeling insecure about getting older and hat may have changed the dynamic with make friends. 

I think men who befriend married woman are looking for easy sex. They can bail when the hubbie finds out. You wife may not know that she has the potensial for being used sexually. They listen to her problems then promise to save her. They will leave high and dry when she becomes too troublesome. 

The need for lalidation is so strong that they can't see reality. One reality is that your wife can't see the true validation and love that she already has from her husband. You too still have lots of work to do. I think she cannot make friends with men as in the past, it distracts her from herd marriage. She needs to recommit to you and respect you. 

When leaving is not an option then you are taken for granted. It may take a complete change in attitude from you. Sounds like you love her but you may have to make a difficult decision. You may have to make a line in the sand and be willing to move on. You have to really mean it. Pull out all the stops - go for MC again and give it maybe 3 months to turn around.

Let her know that you will leave if she contacts any man again and if she does not recommit to her marriage. I would not let her know you are minter her. But if a some point you cannot trust her, then what is the use of staying married.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

So you go on vacation, meet some random men and one of them goes after your W. He doesn't friend you. He just talks to her. And you worry that you're out of line in reacting to the fact that your W is starting to essentially date another man.

When she asks you if something is wrong, why not push past the fear and tell the truth? Say, 'Yes, I don't trust you anymore and it's a serious problem in our marriage.' Take control of the issue, accept that there is real trouble in paradise and start to demand that she truly respect the very reasonable boundaries that a marriage requires.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Ignoring it and hoping it will go away will not work. You must address the issue or it will escalate I would do if directly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

smr2500bus said:


> Any advice on how to deal with this? I feel like telling her I saw again isn't going to lead to anything but the same discussion. But I don't know if I'm ready to pull the trigger and talk D. I'm not sure what to do, but I am TERRIBLE at hiding my feelings and I know this is going to come to a head when I get home from work today....


When my wife was in contact with an EX, one of the things I did was to disable Facebook at the router. No Facebook in or out of the house. It sent a very clear message (to everyone in the house) of what I would and would not tolerate. There is nothing wrong about standing up and being a little nasty about it.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> So you go on vacation, meet some random men and one of them goes after your W. He doesn't friend you. He just talks to her. And you worry that you're out of line in reacting to the fact that your W is starting to essentially date another man.
> 
> When she asks you if something is wrong, why not push past the fear and tell the truth? Say, _*'Yes, I don't trust you anymore and it's a serious problem in our marriage.'*_ Take control of the issue, accept that there is real trouble in paradise and start to demand that she truly respect the very reasonable boundaries that a marriage requires.


You should say that to your wife - you are being honest and truthful. What's wrong with the truth? Are you fearful she'll attack you? 

Wrong. If she knows you are giving her an opportunity to cultivate a relationship (that's what they're doing) with another man (in small steps but headed "that way"), then she will respect him more for going after what HE wants and you less for allowing it to happen.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

Your her plan B and she is still looking for plan A..

You know you could always reconcile after your Divorced. You could always stop the Divorce papers when they are in at court..

To me she is just measuring guys up and you have been fortunate that none measure up completely up to you yet.. But she might not mind getting a piece on the side from someone else, nothing more. For now..


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## smr2500bus (Oct 15, 2012)

I do love her. I'm just tired of feeling like this. Feeling disrespected, lied to, having to check over my shoulder. Worst feeling. I'm not secure in my marriage anymore. So sad.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

If you love her. Truly love her. Then fight for her! Even if it means fighting HER. She might resent it at first. But she will soon realize that it's not a controlling move on your part but a protective one. 

Listen, part of your responsibility as the head of the house is to PROTECT your family. Would you fight an intruder that broke into your house in the middle of the night? Or would you just hope he didn't do much damage? 

Well friend, what you have is an intruder breaking into your house through the internet. Whatcha gonna do red ryder?


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

walkonmars said:


> Well friend, what you have is an intruder breaking into your house through the internet. Whatcha gonna do red ryder?


 It is only a break-in if he enters without being invited in. That is not the case here as your wife is inviting him in behind your back. She has no respect for you or the marriage, and until she does, their is nothing there to fight for.


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