# Serious Issue with Live-in GF



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Hello everyone,

I'm having problems with the GF - who lives with me (along with her kids) now. Since there's kids involved, I need to be tactful but firm in addressing unacceptable behavior while minimizing the impact to her family. Before anyone takes me to task for creating this situation, I know it's my fault but at least I'm determined to address it decisively. I think some back story to the situation is necessary, so here it goes.

We've been dating exclusively for about 1.5 years and have known each other for over two years. Back in early Spring we started discussing doing more family stuff together, as our kids had met and the five of us get along very well going out together. We wanted to deepen the relationship and realized that neither of us was satisfied leading separate lives and seeing each other 2x per month.

So we make the decision to live together and all seems well. Her kids will have their own bedroom (freshly redone and furnished to their liking) and play room. I'm spending the weekends either getting house ready for them or helping her clean and pack. Of course there is stress / nerves as happens with any major change in life, but nothing setting off alarms yet.

So, in the middle of all this, she knows my birthday is coming up soon after the move, and she wants me to set aside the weekend prior (when the kids will all be away) for her. Of course I say yes, and that we can both celebrate and work to get everyone settled in. It seems like a good chance to have some quality time before the school year starts.

At some point her uncle - knowing she has a short window of time between the move and the start of school - decides to send her an invitation to visit, along with three plane tickets (he lives out of state). She asks my opinion and I tell her that even though it falls on the time I set aside for her (she expressed surprise, like she forgot it was my birthday), I don't want her to miss out on family time so I figure we can make it up when she gets back. You would think that's the end of it, _*but then she makes a snarky comment about how I should be fine with her trip, because he's family and I'm not*_ and we spent my birthday together last year. Now, I know my tendency is to shoot from the hip, so I decide I'll take some time, carefully consider my stance, and speak when the time is right.

And, the right time is coming up quickly. She is having a great time and remarks that she is really enjoying this break (for which I am happy). But she's said she looking forward to having another break over the next two weekends, which means she'll be here on school days and take off when her ex has the kids (unless she changes her mind) so clearly she's happy to enjoy herself and leave me hanging.

So, I think the best course of action is to tell her two things. One, it's crappy behavior to promise you'll do something for me and renege. She'd be better off telling her my birthday doesn't factor into her plans and addressing any fallout head-on, rather than just ignoring the issue and hoping I'll forget. Second, and more importantly, nasty comments that my needs / her commitments to me are low priority are hugely disrespectful and won't be tolerated. If I get that kind of nasty comment one more time, we're done.

My dilemma now is how to let her know the above without setting her off. I'm going to ask her to reconsider her plans to be gone, so that we can talk privately (my kid will be out of the house too). But if she refuses, I don't think this issue can wait a month, so I have to be prepared to address it with a full house. Obviously, calm is preferable for a variety of reasons.

Any thoughts on how to set up this conversation - on how to say what needs to be said while keeping tensions to a minimum? I'm really struggling with this part of it. I'm not sure that having this conversation in a public setting, or putting it in a letter / e-mail will help; if I do that then I might as well just end it without giving her a chance to address her behavior. 

Any thoughts or suggestions from TAM on this would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Without trying to insinuate anything negative about your girlfriend have you considered that she still thinks and acts like a single woman. 
What are her plans for the weekends that her children are with their father and are you included?
These passive aggressive, sarcastic comments may be a way of pushing you into marriage. 
Or they may be a way of letting you know your relationship is not exclusive. 
I would tread very carefully here, she seems to see you as a roommate more than a partner. Who’s house do you live in? 
Why did her last relationship break up,was there any infidelity involved?
She has landed on her feet it seems but you need to put things into perspective for her. You are not in an open relationship yet but you soon may be.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Are they actually already moved in? If not, seriously reconsider this move. Seriously reconsider it, anyway. There is no nice way to tell someone that they are selfish, inconsiderate and entitled. This is an example of what's to come. Save yourself a world of hurt and end it.

Snarky would be telling her that she can move her and her kids in with her family.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@DTO Out of all the words in your post (780 words, and before you go  I'm not _that_ OCD, I used a word counter!) the only 14 words that jumped off the screen where these:-


*I should be fine with her trip, because he's family and I'm not*

*That's all you need to know about her feelings for you.* 

Where those her feelings for her first husband? That he wasn't that important because he wasn't family?

Change the locks, send her stuff to storage, delete her numbers, etc.


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## mrsluvmyhub (Nov 28, 2016)

Does she resent you for not putting a ring on it? That's what her comment makes me feel.


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## FieryHairedLady (Mar 24, 2011)

I think you need to slam the brakes on all this now. Help her find another place to move and dump her.


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## thefam (Sep 9, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> Are they actually already moved in? If not, seriously reconsider this move. Seriously reconsider it, anyway. There is no nice way to tell someone that they are selfish, inconsiderate and entitled. This is an example of what's to come. Save yourself a world of hurt and end it.
> 
> Snarky would be telling her that she can move her and her kids in with her family.


Wow I have to 100% agree with this. What a way to start off a live-in relationship! I could even see giving her a pass because of the stress of moving but on top of that she's conveniently overlooking the plans SHE suggested for your birthday. 

Maybe if you lay it out there calmly but letting her know how much this bothers you and see what her reaction is. But if she pushes back on your concerns what will you do? I know you don't want yourself to be telling YOURSELF "I told you so but you wouldn't listen"


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

Never agree to something you are not ok with.

Better be really careful here because the red flags are out.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Responses:

I have considered she thinks and acts single: probably not in wanting a different guy (although you can't ever rule it out) but probably yes in still wanting to go hang out.

She passed on a group celebration for me and a common friend with the same birthday. Her rationale is that when we hit a bit of a rough patch a ways back, she knows she looked bad and doesn't want to face the music. She is going to drop off her kids on Friday and then hang with family, culminating in a party to celebrate her sister getting a good promotion at a really good company (don't want to say which without giving away too much info). But the job and promotion are legit.

I don't think she's pushing me into marriage. I do wonder, though, if she wishes I just didn't mind her being around less - kind of like how some couples travel much for work, have deployments, etc. but still manage to be happy.

Her last relationship ended simply because her and the then BF just weren't compatible. She described him as your typical "failure to launch" - crappy job, lived at home, wasn't real understanding about her commitment to her kids. And (keeping in mind that I knew her a while before we became exclusive) she used to belly-ache about how hard it is to get a guy who wants to commit who has something going on for himself.

So, best guess is that she's not looking to screw around, but she's seeing how much a committed relationship takes, and is having second thoughts.

And yeah I did tell her we need to talk. Nothing accusatory, but just an acknowledgement that these are troubling behaviors that lead to "growing apart" and mutual disinterest. I know how that path goes and I'm going to cut it off with a firm "you can have me and what I have to offer, or you can have your freedom to do as you please, but not both".



Andy1001 said:


> Without trying to insinuate anything negative about your girlfriend have you considered that she still thinks and acts like a single woman.
> What are her plans for the weekends that her children are with their father and are you included?
> These passive aggressive, sarcastic comments may be a way of pushing you into marriage.
> Or they may be a way of letting you know your relationship is not exclusive.
> ...


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

ButtPunch said:


> Never agree to something you are not ok with.
> 
> Better be really careful here because the red flags are out.


The red flags are out like this:-


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## sa58 (Feb 26, 2018)

Now you have figured out one of the
reasons she is probably divorced.

She moved in with you and you did everything for her and her
kids. Furnished room for them, and even a play room.
She wanted you to set the weekend aside for you and her.
Now she is off having a great time and you are there alone.

While she is gone you should be packing her stuff and have it
outside waiting on her. You have done so much for her and she is
showing a lot of disrespect. Do not tolerate it !! It only gets worse !!

"I should be fine with her trip, because he's family and I'm not "

You are a human being who has feelings and deserves respect.
Tell her you have no desire to be family and she can pay rent 
or move out. This will only get worse tell her you have reconsidered 
things and she needs to move. NOW !!


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

I’ve reread your post and now I can see that she hasn’t moved in yet and it is your house she is supposed to be moving to. 
You need to get all of these problems out in the open before she moves in because it could take months to get rid of her and her children if things don’t work out. 
And as things are it’s not going to work out. 
She doesn’t seem to be on the same page as you with regards to you’re relationship. Does she realize that you expect her to be your girlfriend because somehow this seems to have escaped her. Is there any possibility that she thinks it is simply a house sharing desl with a fwb arrangement thrown in. 
There are more ref flags flying here than Labor Day in Moscow. 
Do not continue with moving in together until everything has been discussed.


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## sa58 (Feb 26, 2018)

You have committed to her and she is now having second 
thoughts and treating you like crap. She wants to act free 
and single still.

Help her to be single and free, tell her it is not working out.
Then help her move out!!


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Her comments were way out of line. I get that she is pretty much obligated to go visit the uncle now since he sent plane tickets. but there is no excuse for what she said to you. Address it when you are alone one on one, without being nasty about it, and just lay it out there for her... how it made you feel, what it implies to you, etc. I get being stressed with a move, but that statement speaks volumes about how she views you and the relationship.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

So......your relationship is barely established and your walking on eggshells already?

Just smash your fingers with a hammer and call it love....it will be less painful for you in the end.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

If she hasn't moved in yet, this needs to be resolved before she does. If she has moved in, your life just got a lot harder. 

If this is who she is, she's not what you need.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

DTO said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I'm having problems with the GF - who lives with me (along with her kids) now. Since there's kids involved, I need to be tactful but firm in addressing unacceptable behavior while minimizing the impact to her family. Before anyone takes me to task for creating this situation, I know it's my fault but at least I'm determined to address it decisively. I think some back story to the situation is necessary, so here it goes.
> 
> ...


There are so many issues here, so I will start at...

Who gives a F*** if you having a simple conversation with her sets her off. Who really gives a F***. 

Look, that type of thinking is completely weak and it will cause you a lot of trouble if you keep acting that way. That is just so weak. 

You are a grown man, and if she is not capable of having a civil conversation about legitimate issues, the she can take a freaking hike. 

You sound like you are scared of her, what a wimp...

As for her behavior and the things she said, they are completely out of line. First off, if you are living together in a committed relationship, then you are family. I mean you are at MY house, I am paying most of the bills and we are supposed to be in love. And that is not Family enough for you. 

OK, then let your family put you up and find another BF. And I am not even going into much detail that you may be involved in a KISA situation, and she is just taking advantage of your kindness, and all she has to do is put out a little to keep you happy and quiet. 

And, look, I am not trying to be too harsh, but you need to pull your head out and figure out if you want to be with this girl or not. 

For my money, he smart a$$ed comment about family would have been more than enough to send her packing, that very moment. 

I have a wonderful GF and while she would NEVER act that way, if she did, we would be done, see you later. 

In our relationship, WE come first, and everything else is second. Yes we have kids and grand kids and we both babysit and whatnot but our plans come first if it is not an emergency. 

You honestly need to look at why you would allow yourself to be disrespected this way, because that is your issue. Me I would not tolerate it for a second...


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

It looks to me like the two of you moved in together with different reasons / rationales. She is not wrong for choosing her own personal reasons to move in with you.

You wanted deeper companionship. She wanted something else.. Maybe to save money?

So she is operating BAU while you are expecting a new level of commitment. Unrealized expectations = STRESS you are feeling.

So she will be very surprised by your reaction just as you are surprised by her actions.

What you need to tell her in a non needy way is that you prioritize her, and expect her to prioritize you, and without that there is no relationship. If she has not moved in yet, you should tell her to consider what she wants and what she is committing to before moving in and to let you know what she decides. If she has already moved in I suggest you just say it (what you expect) and leave the conversation at that point and start observing.

PS no one can tell if she's moved in yet or not from how you wrote things up.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

So her uncle sends tickets not even knowing she could come? No, he didn’t.

She has told you “he is family and you’re not”.
Translation: you don’t mean **** to me, he does.

If you let this woman continue living with you when you are deathly afraid to even have a conversation with her, You’re crazy.

It wasn’t a snarky comment, it was a “let me put him in his place” comment.
Placed you now are. Second behind an uncle.
Laughable.

You are doomed to repeats if you don’t learn to stand firm against the wind.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Yes she is moved in. But I have no problem putting her out.

Yes her uncle sounds like a guy who would send tickets without asking. I've heard stories. But that's not the issue. She needs to prioritze us regardless of what else she has going on.

She is the one who said she wanted a family again. I am fine with it, but that was her expectation.

She's since confirmed she will be back on Thursday to handle school stuff Friday morning. The talk will happen then. She knows it's coming and tried to say it's not hecessary, but I insisted.

The reminder that I should say what needs to be said and let her worry about being civil is understood and appreci


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## Magnesium (Jun 19, 2017)

You need to have that talk with her before she goes registering her kids for school using your address.

If I were you and in that situation, I would have ended it as soon as she made the comment about her uncle being family. I would have ended it all without any further discussion. She thinks she owns you now because she got away with that mess.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

DTO said:


> So, I think the best course of action is to tell her two things. One, it's crappy behavior to promise you'll do something for me and renege. She'd be better off telling her my birthday doesn't factor into her plans and addressing any fallout head-on, rather than just ignoring the issue and hoping I'll forget. *This will make you look weak .* Second, and more importantly, nasty comments that my needs / her commitments to me are low priority are hugely disrespectful and won't be tolerated. If I get that kind of nasty comment one more time, we're done. *You care more about the way it was said than her actions. She will merely agree to this but act the same way.*
> 
> 
> Any thoughts on how to set up this conversation - on how to say what needs to be said while keeping tensions to a minimum? I'm really struggling with this part of it. I'm not sure that having this conversation in a public setting, or putting it in a letter / e-mail will help; if I do that then I might as well just end it without giving her a chance to address her behavior.
> ...


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## FieryHairedLady (Mar 24, 2011)

Let us know how it goes.


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## 23cm (Dec 3, 2016)

If you're walking on eggshells now, 

You'll be walking in poop later if you stay with this entitled princess whose thoughtlessness toward an SO seems to know no bounds.

Not marriage material.

Not GF material either.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

based on what you shared here, its clear that she wants to define the relationship, yes its your home an yes your involved in the relationship but she has made it very clear that she wants to change the rules and control the narrative and you are just suppose to accept it...well "Homey don't play that" 

now you mention she is anticipating the talk...what do you think she is anticipating?


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Hicks said:


> It looks to me like the two of you moved in together with different reasons / rationales. She is not wrong for choosing her own personal reasons to move in with you.
> 
> You wanted deeper companionship. She wanted something else.. Maybe to save money?
> 
> ...


I am sorry, this is just... crap. 

You do not act that way with someone that you are supposed to love.

Tell her in a non needy way, to get the **** out of you life.

She will be very surprised that she made the mistake of taking up with a man that actually has a back bone, as she is packing her crap up to move OUT...


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Yeah, I think that's pretty much it. And yeah I need to let her know it isn't going to happen.

I think she knows that she's going to be told about herself. She might be afraid to face up to two bad choices: treat me well or go back out and fend for herself.

I doubt she thinks I am going to just back down. She knows about the time I initiated a separation from my ex-wife (while 4 months pregnant) for treating me extremely poorly, and then waiting for her to ask to be allowed to move back in.

So best guess is that she knows she going to face the music and putting it off as long as she 



Lostinthought61 said:


> based on what you shared here, its clear that she wants to define the relationship, yes its your home an yes your involved in the relationship but she has made it very clear that she wants to change the rules and control the narrative and you are just suppose to accept it...well "Homey don't play that"
> 
> now you mention she is anticipating the talk...what do you think she is anticipating?


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

This early in to living together establishes the NORM in the relationship, although I'm thinking some boundaries should already be set. I'm hung up on the uncle's tickets. He had to know when the kids were available. Remember what she tells you is just that--her spin.

You've been together for a while. Has her behavior changed since you've decided to live together? Her blatant disrespect heralds storms ahead. I'm affirming what you state will be your firm 'talk.'


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I’m still trying get my head around the “take off work and spend the weekend with me”.....
Then Nic sends three tickets and it’s off to the races. If she considered you as her SO in front of her family, at the very least there would have been 4 tickets.

She doesn’t speak of you in front of her family. At least, not highly.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

I'm sensing much weakness in you with how you interact with her. For her to just have moved in and to feel so bold to be treating you this crappy already tells me she doesn't respect you.

Why would you want this woman? In the past you treated the woman that was 4 months pregnant with your kid very harshly when she was probably hormonal but with this woman you take her crap. 

You better stiffen that spine before you have your talk. This woman has an entitled attitude that will steamroll right through any needy "talk."


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Couple things. You say your ex treated you poorly as well? I suspect this is not a new thing with this girlfriend too, as people don't change on a dime, which makes me think you ended up with women like this because they seek you out. One of the tells in this situation is how much fear you are showing to have reasonable boundaries. In confronting her about her ****ty behavior. We all have it, and all our partners do too but you shouldn't have to post on a board, to get reassurance about confrontation, when someone treats you with total disregard. But abusive or just ****ty people will choose people who are passive and don't call them on their **** precisely because people who do eventually dump them. Most people just won't put up with it for very long. They don't want to or don't have it in them to change, so they go for the right type of mate. Usually the KISA, passive type, not saying you are just putting that out there. 

Is there any feeling that she is your only shot at happiness? Like why would you want someone who is this clueless about how relationships work. I could see if you had a discussion and came to a conclusion, but she is dismissive. Not good, let me tell you, you can do better. 

Besides who you are with you should be able to reasonably have confrontation about this without feeling afraid, of her punishing you, or feeling guilty. And you should be able to do that without losing your cool. Again you talk about kicking your ex-wife out, but in my mind that is NOT a good sign as it should have never gotten to the point were you abused so much and for so long that you had to resort to kicking her out. It should have been addressed immediately and if nothing was solved, discussion of the marriage continuing would have been the next step. As she is your ex it seems kicking her out didn't work. I think that's because the truth is, the best predictor of having a good marriage is 90% in who you pick. If you address these kinds of issues from the start it's most likely the people who act like your ex or now your girlfriend won't be around long enough to be married to or move in.

It's going to be hard to fix this because I think it's a reasonable assumption that it's in her nature. But it may also be in your nature too, in the sense that you attract this type of women. 

Something to think about.


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

You received feedback from people who have walked this path before you so you're not alone. You can't change her nor should you try. I hope you have the strength to immediately stand up to her and send her (and her kids) elsewhere. I strongly suggest IC to help you understand why you're drawn to toxic women (and how to avoid/change it).


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Here's what I'm gleaning from your posts - and forgive me if I'm wrong - but she only recently moved in. With this being a recent development, you already feel there is a serious issue.

I'm weighing in as a woman here, but I don't like her response to you about you not being "family." That's fine if she doesn't consider you "family." Just let her know, as you are tossing her crap out the door, that she can live with her family rather than you.

It sounds like you have gone above and beyond to make her and her kids feel like your home is their home. But she is already coming across as a bit of a ball-buster to me. Granted, I can only go by what you are saying, but I'm scratching my head as to why you would want to live with her.

Regardless of that, the very fact that you feel something is serious and she's avoiding it .... I don't see this live in situation being long term.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

but then she makes a snarky comment about how I should be fine with her trip, because he's family and I'm not and we spent my birthday together last year. 




Honey, I realize how much you needed that break. There is so much going on, it's even starting to get to me. I think I'd like to take a break, too. I'll call you when I reenergize.


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## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

You're not family ???

Then why the **** are her and her kids living in your house ???

Tell her to go live at the uncle's house since she cares so much about "family" .


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

DTO,

You have framed the situation very clearly, which is great. 

This isn’t about her delivery - it is about the substance. 

If I choose to do something that de prioritizes you - I can run one of three plays:
1. I can make a meaningless non apology
2. This wasn’t fair to you, here’s how I’m going to make it up to you (acts of contrition are sincere)
3. You might dislike this - but you aren’t that important to me - so don’t make a fuss about it - this is normal stuff for someone who is low on the food chain - like you are 

That said - in her experience - perhaps their has always been an ill behaved alpha. So she has decided that as part of moving in she’s taking full control of the relationship. 

So - you can run an educational play like this: In my family, when we cause distress, we perform an act of contrition shows the injured party that: (1) we acknowledge being in the wrong and (2) The other person is IMPORTANT to us. 

Smile and ask: How are you going to make this up to me?

If her answer is not acceptable just shake your head and be silent. And then do your own thing for a week - band that means no sex hard as that is. End of the week you tell her you’ve identified her act of contrition. Packing. 

Not being funny. 






DTO said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I'm having problems with the GF - who lives with me (along with her kids) now. Since there's kids involved, I need to be tactful but firm in addressing unacceptable behavior while minimizing the impact to her family. Before anyone takes me to task for creating this situation, I know it's my fault but at least I'm determined to address it decisively. I think some back story to the situation is necessary, so here it goes.
> 
> ...


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## Robbie1234 (Feb 8, 2017)

She is showing you her true colours,you only seen each other twice a month up to now you never knew her really. This needs to be stopped right now because when she settles in her behaviour will be worse. This is the honeymoon period, imagine how things will be after she gets used to you.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> but then she makes a snarky comment about how I should be fine with her trip, because he's family and I'm not and we spent my birthday together last year.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:iagree:


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

All of the above posts and this; here's the hazard sometimes if one waits to "say something" if a conversation turns snarky, so to speak. Think, yes, but speak in these circumstances. One person's negativism is reinforced as ok, and the other steams and plays the movie over and over in their head.

Especially if hesitant because of afraid to set the other off. That's a sign right there, and not a good one.

Hang in there.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

From reading your answers @DTO I firmly believe this woman sees you as a Monday to Friday boyfriend.As far as she is concerned her weekends without her kids also mean without you and your kid.She is starting as she means to go on and I’m having serious doubts that your talk on Friday is going to change anything.
I hope she hasn’t given up her old place yet because otherwise you are in for a hard time getting her to leave.
One thing I don’t understand,why did you only see each other once every couple of weeks before moving in together? Was this her idea or was there another reason.I say this because you have to face the fact that there may be another guy on the scene and you now have the scenario where she is staying in your house and not having to pay rent on her old place.
So now she has the money for her weekend trips when she didn’t before.


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## Steelman (Mar 5, 2018)

DTO said:


> Responses:
> 
> I have considered she thinks and acts single: probably not in wanting a different guy (although you can't ever rule it out) but probably yes in still wanting to go hang out.
> 
> ...


I would take some of these responses with a grain of salt from people who have clearly been burned in the past. You'll get a lot of "oh, she made a snide, stupid mark- get out now" crowd here.

From a birds eye view, to me, she kind of likes the arrangement.... maybe for her kids..... but she wants and likes some freedom. Maybe that works for you, maybe it doesn't. If it doesn't, its your call as to what to do.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Steelman said:


> I would take some of these responses with a grain of salt from people who have clearly been burned in the past. You'll get a lot of "oh, she made a snide, stupid mark- get out now" crowd here.
> 
> From a birds eye view, to me, she kind of likes the arrangement.... maybe for her kids..... but she wants and likes some freedom. Maybe that works for you, maybe it doesn't. If it doesn't, its your call as to what to do.


After EVERYTHING you have been through @Steelman, you still manage to think this way? Have you learned nothing from your ordeal? 

You are completely WRONG about this above. OP should not put up with this crap at all. I don't know how the talk went, but you should NEVER let someone treat you this way in any kind of relationship.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Is this a dump her immediately issue? Not in my opinion.
In any relationship each person needs to learn about the other person and teach the other person about themselves.
I think this is part of the growing process. You need more than one "situation" to figure out if she is going to stay like this or adapt based on what you would like from her.. It is important to drive this conversation to that, rather than a snivel fest about no spending a certain day with you which misses the point.

Unmarried cohabitation with minor children involved is a huge mistake in my opinion, but that's a different debate.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Hicks said:


> Is this a dump her immediately issue? Not in my opinion.
> In any relationship each person needs to learn about the other person and teach the other person about themselves.
> I think this is part of the growing process. You need more than one "situation" to figure out if she is going to stay like this or adapt based on what you would like from her.. It is important to drive this conversation to that, rather than a snivel fest about no spending a certain day with you which misses the point.
> 
> Unmarried cohabitation with minor children involved is a huge mistake in my opinion, but that's a different debate.


I am not saying that her should not have the talk, and supposedly they did that. But make no mistake, this is not a One Of situation. 

Her whole general attitude is out of line, the "Family" comment, the birthday situation, the "I'm going to party on the weekends without you" Attitude... all of that is out of line. 

I think OP got into a R too soon with this woman or he is one of those weak men that thinks any woman is great if she puts out a little. 

I think she is straight up using OP and has Zero actual feelings for him in any way. Personally I think he is being stupid and used. 

I have given women cab far to get home from a date for less than what she has said to OP. 

I just don't get it, if you let people disrespect you then you WILL continue to be disrespected, it is kind of simple...


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Steelman said:


> I would take some of these responses with a grain of salt from people who have clearly been burned in the past. You'll get a lot of "oh, she made a snide, stupid mark- get out now" crowd here.
> 
> From a birds eye view, to me, she kind of likes the arrangement.... maybe for her kids..... but she wants and likes some freedom. Maybe that works for you, maybe it doesn't. If it doesn't, its your call as to what to do.


The snarky comment was one thing; but, her attitude of 'I was with you last year on your birthday. That should tide you over for at least a decade' was rather revealing.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Lol.

She not only made a comment that summed up her true feelings for him in one sentence, she ditched him last minute on a weekend that she ASKED OP to reserve for her.

What more does he really need to know?


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## sa58 (Feb 26, 2018)

When you discuss this with her make
sure she understands how you feel.
You planned a weekend with her
and she took off with no consideration
for you. She said make time to be together.

If you still plan on continuing this relationship
some ground rules need to be established. 
Do not simply fall for the let me make it up
to you line. Dinner a great night of sex or
empty promises. 

If she wants to be in a relationship she 
needs to understand that both of you
are in the relationship together.
It is not just about her but both of
you. A one sided relationship will
never work.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Looks like it's time to chime in with more responses and commemts (to the quoted post and others).

We used to spend two weekends per month (Friday night to Sunday afternoon together). I have my daughter 50% and she has her kids all but those two weekends.

We didn't typically meet during the week due to distance. It's at least two hours from my place to hers during the evening commute time (we both work M-F 8-5).

The difficulty in keeping having a strong relationship with those time constraints is what led to us examining our feelings and deciding we wanted to be together more.

I don't want to be with her if I am not considered family. And this knowing how she views me is a new thing. When we were discussing relationship goals, she said she wanted a family again at some point - her words. And then, after we decided we would head in that direction, she asked me to attend her family functions and get to know the people in her life.

Clearly, something has changed for her. Maybe she's getting cold feet, doesn't like being far from her family, changed her mind but felt stuck - whatever. It doesn't matter why - if she won't adhere to what we had agreed back then, it's over.

It isn't something I need to nuke everything over. But I will tell her that the way she is behaving is unacceptable and she needs to choose. I am confident she will choose to move on, or perhaps try but then fail as those resentments creep in. So that's why I am considering kicking her out from the get-go. Haven't decided 100% on going that route though.

Haven't had the talk yet. Her vacation ends today and she'll be back at my place tomorrow night.




MEM2020 said:


> DTO,
> 
> You have framed the situation very clearly, which is great.
> 
> ...


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

We bumped it up to pretty much every weekend once we decided it was appropriate to bring our kids into the mix.

Yes, it's not the same as living together, but then again that is why you live together to begin with.

And it's not that I am afraid to have this discussion, or that I am letting her walk all over me. I just feel that the right approach makes for better communication. It's only been days (and most of those on vacation) and she hasn't even unpacked much. I get that the beginning sets the tone. 

So I am going to reiterate clearly my terms for this relationship up front. I do see the signs and I will deal with it now, well before she's comfortable at my place. If she doesn't like it, it won't be much trouble to rent a truck and move her boxes somewhere else.



Robbie1234 said:


> She is showing you her true colours,you only seen each other twice a month up to now you never knew her really. This needs to be stopped right now because when she settles in her behaviour will be worse. This is the honeymoon period, imagine how things will be after she gets used to you.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

DTO said:


> Looks like it's time to chime in with more responses and commemts (to the quoted post and others).
> 
> We used to spend two weekends per month (Friday night to Sunday afternoon together). I have my daughter 50% and she has her kids all but those two weekends.
> 
> ...


Good luck tomorrow buddy.
I really hope things work out for you.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Thank you.

The way I see it, it will work out one way or the other. She will move on (very likely) or agree to treat me as a partner; there are no other choices.

Either way, I am better off than I am now.



Andy1001 said:


> Good luck tomorrow buddy.
> I really hope things work out for you.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Not family comment is what would make it a deal breaker for me. It will be interesting to hear her response. You have a good attitude about it.

Just try to be willing to let people go who don’t treat you good. It can be hard in practice , although it seems simple in principle.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

She sounds like she will take advantage of whatever suits her in the moment. It's work to set up your birthday. It isn't much to go to uncle's. In fact, she may have a built-in baby sitter there so she can go out. That's stretching it, but it would be great if you popped in the last weekend there or whatever night she usually likes to go out. It's not that I don't trust her. I don't trust anyone. I think it would be a boon to find out who she really is before you live with her. I see lots of babysitting in your future. I see you having no input on how to help raise her children, but I do see you doing work for them as you are told. 

I can't help feeling that way. It's my gut telling me that. It's been wrong before. I hope it is this time.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

The trip to her uncle's was all expenses paid. He organized outings and family time. So for sure she didn't have to work hard at it or pay for anything.

Dropping in might work if he wasn't three states away. LOL!



2ntnuf said:


> She sounds like she will take advantage of whatever suits her in the moment. It's work to set up your birthday. It isn't much to go to uncle's. In fact, she may have a built-in baby sitter there so she can go out. That's stretching it, but it would be great if you popped in the last weekend there or whatever night she usually likes to go out. It's not that I don't trust her. I don't trust anyone. I think it would be a boon to find out who she really is before you live with her. I see lots of babysitting in your future. I see you having no input on how to help raise her children, but I do see you doing work for them as you are told.
> 
> I can't help feeling that way. It's my gut telling me that. It's been wrong before. I hope it is this time.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

DTO said:


> So I am going to reiterate clearly my terms for this relationship up front. I do see the signs and I will deal with it now, well before she's comfortable at my place. If she doesn't like it, it won't be much trouble to rent a truck and move her boxes somewhere else.


I like the way you think. If she doesn't respect your parameters for how a live-in relationship should proceed, then you are better off w/o her.

It's HER loss.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Andy1001 said:


> have you considered that she still thinks and acts like a single woman.


Nailed it. Saying that “she still thinks and acts like a single woman” says it all. Everything else is just filling in the details.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

I think there are a number of points between "I'm dating a guy" and "he is my family", especially when they both have kids and have been there and done that with other people. Since they've only JUST gotten to the stage of moving in together, and while I don't think her statement was moving in the right direction, I'm not sure that it's entirely reasonable to expect her to already be calling him family. I'm only saying this to sort of point out that even if he has a valid reason to be unimpressed, I'm confused by the rush to say a couple who have just moved in together are 'family'.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Oftentimes, the biggest problem that the relationship's oppressed has is simply having the cajones to tell the offender about it!

That being said, there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that you have them! Tell her exactly how you feel and what her options are!

You'll do fine!*


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

breeze said:


> I think there are a number of points between "I'm dating a guy" and "he is my family", especially when they both have kids and have been there and done that with other people. Since they've only JUST gotten to the stage of moving in together, and while I don't think her statement was moving in the right direction, I'm not sure that it's entirely reasonable to expect her to already be calling him family. I'm only saying this to sort of point out that even if he has a valid reason to be unimpressed, I'm confused by the rush to say a couple who have just moved in together are 'family'.


Well if you are female then you would not be GF material either I guess. 

When you move in, an adult, understands that it is the next level. If they were not living together then maybe what you are saying could be argued. 

What's more is that it is just not that comment, it is the attitude in general. It is an attitude of "Lack of care" about him and the relationship. 

And yes, a MAN with his wits about him, dumps a woman that has this type of attitude, almost immediately...


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

You have a point, and it's something I need to consider. I don't agree with your sentiment, but it would explain what's going on. If so, the question becomes "what causes a relationship to close that gap?" What milestones need to be hit?

Right now, we share bills, she or I will take the other's kids to do stuff, go to family functions (at least up until now, LOL!!), accepted my taking significant responsibility for her and her kid's well-being, etc. The only thing missing is her mental leap to get to that step. Neither one of us wants more kids, and (unless she's changed her mind) she is "meh" on ever being married again. Also, it's very likely that if I bailed on something the was banking on, she wouldn't be as forgiving as she expects from me.

I think it's more likely that either she doesn't intend to lift any guy to the standing of "family" (or at least not what most people think of as "family"), or she doesn't see me as the man to fill that role in her life. Since she wants a family, if I'm not that guy we definitely shouldn't be living together and maybe should not be an exclusive couple at all.

I thank you for your input, and I'll keep it in mind for the discussion taking place tonight.



breeze said:


> I think there are a number of points between "I'm dating a guy" and "he is my family", especially when they both have kids and have been there and done that with other people. Since they've only JUST gotten to the stage of moving in together, and while I don't think her statement was moving in the right direction, I'm not sure that it's entirely reasonable to expect her to already be calling him family. I'm only saying this to sort of point out that even if he has a valid reason to be unimpressed, I'm confused by the rush to say a couple who have just moved in together are 'family'.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

That might be her intentional goal, or at least her inclination. That's exactly what I won't stand for, and will be saying so when we talk tonight.



2ntnuf said:


> She sounds like she will take advantage of whatever suits her in the moment. It's work to set up your birthday. It isn't much to go to uncle's. In fact, she may have a built-in baby sitter there so she can go out. That's stretching it, but it would be great if you popped in the last weekend there or whatever night she usually likes to go out. It's not that I don't trust her. I don't trust anyone. I think it would be a boon to find out who she really is before you live with her. I see lots of babysitting in your future. I see you having no input on how to help raise her children, but I do see you doing work for them as you are told.
> 
> I can't help feeling that way. It's my gut telling me that. It's been wrong before. I hope it is this time.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

This is how I look at it too. IMO, the point at which I became more than the guy she's dating was we were exclusive for a significant period of time.

The issue is that it's not just her and I living together and doing our separate thing. We agreed to work as a team for our common good and raise our kids. If you trust someone to be there for your kids but they don't have any status, something is wro



BluesPower said:


> When you move in, an adult, understands that it is the next level. If they were not living together then maybe what you are saying could be argued.
> 
> What's more is that it is just not that comment, it is the attitude in general. It is an attitude of "Lack of care" about him and the relationship.


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## VibrantWings (Sep 8, 2017)

As someone else already said, the relationship is new and you're getting the **** end of the stick. 

It's more than a red flag....it's a decision you have to make. 
You're in the beginning stages, you opened your home not only to her but to her two children who are "not your family" and provide what sounds like a nice/decent place to live. In other words, you're trying and accepting the package deal. 

That "you're not family" remark was strange. Is there more to the story? What was being said before the snark sprang up? Did she misunderstand something, you not tell us something or was she being guilty/defensive? 

She still owes you a birthday celebration by the sound of things. Kind of ****ty way to treat anyone you're friends with but especially with a guy she just committed to "taking the next step" with. 

If it looks like ****, smells like ****, etc. Need I say more?


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

There isn't much backstory to the snarky comment. I think she was defensive in anticipation of a bad reaction from me. She asked me to call her during lunch to discuss something she had going on.

Then she sends me a text her uncle sent her saying he locked in some ticket prices (cheap for such short notice, admittedly) and to let her know if she can't make it.

I reminded her that was our weekend and she seemed like it slipped her mind (or maybe she was annoyed I brought it up). I said it was fine to go and we could reschedule (he's out of state, kids are on summer break, and she had the time off). It was a good chance to visit a close relative whom she rarely sees.

While I don't expect her to humble herself, a "thank you" for me being cool about it would have been appropriate. I certainly would have expressed gratitude to someone who let me off the hook.

The snarky comment came instead, and no indication of remorse from her. I know there is stress from working full time, two young kids, and arranging to move; I didn't pile on right away.

But, now that vacation time has come and gone and just a few text messages here and there, I have to assume this is how she really feels and hit it head on.

I already know a decision has to be made, and I know where I stand. She has a choice to treat me well and invest the effort that I am investing to make this work, or we are done.



VibrantWings said:


> As someone else already said, the relationship is new and you're getting the **** end of the stick.
> 
> It's more than a red flag....it's a decision you have to make.
> You're in the beginning stages, you opened your home not only to her but to her two children who are "not your family" and provide what sounds like a nice/decent place to live. In other words, you're trying and accepting the package deal.
> ...


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

How close of a relative can he be if she rarely sees him? He must be one special guy to buy airline tickets and plan a vacation for relatives he rarely sees.

We had a neighbor who had a lovely married 'niece' visit him weekly. They were quite close - a little 'too' close for relatives. Of course, they were having an affair. 

I'm sure he is her biological uncle - it's just that something sounds off.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

AFAIK, a family death has brought people closer together.

Doesn't matter though. If I am not good enough to be considered family/partner, I am not good enough to take care of her and her kids.



Blondilocks said:


> How close of a relative can he be if she rarely sees him? He must be one special guy to buy airline tickets and plan a vacation for relatives he rarely sees.
> 
> We had a neighbor who had a lovely married 'niece' visit him weekly. They were quite close - a little 'too' close for relatives. Of course, they were having an affair.
> 
> I'm sure he is her biological uncle - it's just that something sounds off.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Does she know anyone else, friends, etc in her Uncle's city?


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

BluesPower said:


> Well if you are female then you would not be GF material either I guess.
> 
> When you move in, an adult, understands that it is the next level. If they were not living together then maybe what you are saying could be argued.
> 
> ...


Generally an adult also understands when they are being rude.


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## Suspicious1 (Nov 19, 2017)

Late to party here, and still read these post. 
The "Your not Family" is obvious the case after these two kids moved in yet should not have been said. Period.
I see no reason to jab someone with such statement unless you wanted them to sting a little.


breeze said:


> I think there are a number of points between "I'm dating a guy" and "he is my family", especially when they both have kids and have been there and done that with other people. Since they've only JUST gotten to the stage of moving in together, and while I don't think her statement was moving in the right direction, I'm not sure that it's entirely reasonable to expect her to already be calling him family. I'm only saying this to sort of point out that even if he has a valid reason to be unimpressed, I'm confused by the rush to say a couple who have just moved in together are 'family'.


Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Tknight (Jul 30, 2018)

Def a harsh statement saying you're not family. What are you then? Address it firmly. You can go outside or hire a sitter while you have the conversation if you think it will get heated. I think it will. I feel like I am kind of like her, when I get a ticket elsewhere I get too excited and end up being a ****, but often it's just built-up stress for the fact that I need out of the house. I don't think what she did was appropriate but maybe there's more then what appears on the surface. 

Personally I make a strong stand to only celebrate my birthdays alone. I can't stand making plans with anybody on that day. I love alone time, I was born alone! So from my perspective I don't understand why you want her around on your birthday anyways. 

Good luck.


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## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

DITCH THE *****...........You now know where you stand.......


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Doesn't look like things went well.


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

It will take a strong assertive 'discussion' to get this woman to change her behavior and attitude toward the relationship. You're pushing a truck uphill, good luck getting her to change anything about herself.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

What is she gonna say?

"I didn't really say what you think I said."

"It doesn't really mean what you think it means."

"You are reading way too much into this."


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Tron said:


> What is she gonna say?
> 
> "I didn't really say what you think I said."
> 
> ...


"I didnt mean it, I only said that to hurt you." (i.e. to control and manipulate you)

It really sounds like she is a taker, not a giver, and she is using you.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Either she is your partner or she is just a room mate.

If the latter, she gets to pay rent, utilities, etc.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Hey DTO,

So how did the come to Jesus meeting with here go?


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

OP, I am a little late in offering advice....but it sounds like she simply isn't as invested as you are. To her moving in with you doesn't necessarily mean that she will see more of you. I think you guys need to have a conversation about expectations. If you're not on the same page after that, then one or both of you will have a decision to make.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Chaparral said:


> Doesn't look like things went well.


Sorry to not get back to everyone. I am super-grateful to all the advice provided to me regarding this issue.

It actually went well. I haven't had a chance to post details because (other than a night out with family) I've been mired in back-to-school requirements (everything from clothes to lunch stuff). I've been running hard pretty much all weekend and have had very little down time.

Details will follow, probably tomorrow.

Thanks!


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

As soon as I read "three kids", I foolishly thought that was the problem. I do not care how horny I am, I would not go into a situation as you did. You will forever be outnumbered by a family that is not yours. You need to realize that you are not family by blood or marriage so you cannot expect to be treated as such.

My friend married a women with 3 teenage boys. He tries to avoid staying home as much as he can. He works on holidays and comes in early and stays late. He married the first woman who gave him sex and let him live in her house. He often complains that he has no say in his wife's family or kids. He comes to work when his wife's family visits. He regrets his marriage every day.

So you are in a bad situation and cannot expect to come first when it comes to her family matters.


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## Kamstel (Apr 25, 2018)

Just checking in, how are you and the gf doing?

I wish you luck and happiness


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Hello everyone, here's the update:

The GF and I are giving it another go. Rather than just wait for her to show up and drop the bomb, I decided for a "shot across the bow" approach.

I started by saying that I don't want to control her, and I don't want her to feel stuck if she was unhappy. If she wanted out, I'd give her the furnishings I bought for the kids and help her get re-settled elsewhere.

Otherwise, I don't expect (nor want) to come before her kids, but I have clear expectations for where I rate in priority. Followed by:

* There is a difference between "relationship freedom" and "single freedom".
* We agreed to live together as a family, and less than that doesn't work for me.
* I believe in "all the way in or all the way out" for relationships.
* I expect to rate as your partner, above other friends and extended family.
* If you tell me again that I don't rate, you'd better be packing while you're saying it.

She responded that she realized she acted terribly. She asked for a chance to regain my trust but would understand if I tried but couldn't get there.

So, my guess that she was struggling with the loss of freedom was on the mark. I don't think attraction to me was the issue.

I also think she understands these are relationship norms, not oddball requests. So she would have to be okay with it or probably stay single. And of course seeing that I really like her kids (and vice versa) doesn't hurt.

So, we will see how it goes.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

DTO said:


> * There is a difference between "relationship freedom" and "single freedom".
> 
> So, my guess that she was struggling with the loss of freedom was on the mark.


Could you explain this? I'm not sure I understand what all this "freedom" is about. What type of loss of freedom was she struggling with? Do you mean she's struggling with having to compromise and not just come and go as she pleases?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

DTO said:


> Hello everyone, here's the update:
> 
> The GF and I are giving it another go. Rather than just wait for her to show up and drop the bomb, I decided for a "shot across the bow" approach.
> 
> ...



Just an FYI. A lady that’s deeply in love with a man has zero desire for “freedom”.
She has no desire to go out with friends or this and that, she wants more time with her man.

I fear that your gf has told you what you wanted to hear in order to keep her free apartment and associated wallet.

There’s been zero from you except a little talking, after she ditched you on the weekend of your birthday that SHE asked for.
She’s ditched you and told you that you weren’t family. Kinda hard to take that kinda crap back.

My thoughts are that she is only along for the ride until something better comes along. She will then cheat on you and make up some bs about you being controlling and forcing commitment from her, then tells you she’s gone and it has nothing to do with the other man who she is “just friends” with.

I hope I’ve got it all wrong. But telling you you’re not family and ditching you—- in my book, you’re better off keeping on looking. 

But I’m sure someone will come along and say how biased I am and how jaded I am.
Fact is, she said what she said and did what she did.
Actions AND words.

I’d at the very least have her move out.
Casual Acquaintances need their own place.
Living with you is for family.

JMO.... I think there’s going to be more outrageous behavior from this woman in the future.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Prodigal said:


> Could you explain this? I'm not sure I understand what all this "freedom" is about. What type of loss of freedom was she struggling with? Do you mean she's struggling with having to compromise and not just come and go as she pleases?


My point was that she has a good-sized, tight-knit family, that does lots of stuff together, to which she feels a sense of loyalty. Additionally, they were close by (anywhere from 5 to 20 minutes away).

So, she was used to popping over frequently, and going out with them as the mood struck her. Now they are at least 90 minutes away, and I expect to have priority over them, so her time with them will be cut down.

If she regrets that, she is free to leave. It's either - or.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

I apologize if this has already been discussed, but is she contributing any money toward the monthly bills?


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

DTO said:


> My point was that she has a good-sized, tight-knit family, that does lots of stuff together, to which she feels a sense of loyalty. Additionally, they were close by (anywhere from 5 to 20 minutes away).
> 
> So, she was used to popping over frequently, and going out with them as the mood struck her. Now they are at least 90 minutes away, and I expect to have priority over them, so her time with them will be cut down.
> 
> If she regrets that, she is free to leave. It's either - or.


You seem to be tethering over a decision here.
Your first post today sounded as if your girlfriend had wrote it,now you are back making empty threats.
She told you what you wanted to hear,you sucked it up and now you realize that nothing has changed.
Thread carefully my friend,I think you are in for a rough ride.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Evinrude58 said:


> DTO said:
> 
> 
> > Just an FYI. A lady that’s deeply in love with a man has zero desire for “freedom”.
> ...


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Not really. I told her she had to earn my trust and made no commitments beyond giving her a chance to do so.

Time will tell if I made a good choice.



Andy1001 said:


> DTO said:
> 
> 
> > My point was that she has a good-sized, tight-knit family, that does lots of stuff together, to which she feels a sense of loyalty. Additionally, they were close by (anywhere from 5 to 20 minutes away).
> ...


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Yes. She is big on pulling her weight, so she will cover whatever she and her kids use, plus some.

I didn't have to ask. It was offered.



lucy999 said:


> I apologize if this has already been discussed, but is she contributing any money toward the monthly bills?


----------



## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

DTO said:


> My point was that she has a good-sized, tight-knit family, that does lots of stuff together, to which she feels a sense of loyalty. Additionally, they were close by (anywhere from 5 to 20 minutes away).
> 
> So, she was used to popping over frequently, and going out with them as the mood struck her. Now they are at least 90 minutes away, and I expect to have priority over them, so her time with them will be cut down.
> 
> If she regrets that, she is free to leave. It's either - or.


Both my wife and I came from tight knit families. We each integrated into each others families. There were some issues from time to time in the beginning , especially on her side, where they were exceptionally close (six kids raised by a single widowed mom). When they make you part of the family, it gets easier. Granted, we were dating/engaged/married, and never lived together before marriage, but it’s the same really.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

DTO said:


> Yes. She is big on pulling her weight, so she will cover whatever she and her kids use, plus some.
> 
> I didn't have to ask. It was offered.
> 
> ...


Does she contribute to the cost of housing/mortgage?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

DTO said:


> Hello everyone, here's the update:
> 
> The GF and I are giving it another go. Rather than just wait for her to show up and drop the bomb, I decided for a "shot across the bow" approach.
> 
> ...


Giving her the furnishings and helping her set up is very good of you. 

What did she say that gave you reason to believe she is struggling with her loss of freedom? 

I don't remember you talking about a possible loss of attraction to you. If you are feeling like she is better than you and doing you a favor, you will lose her. Do not move in together, or she will quickly get tired of propping up your self esteem.

I'm confused.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Sounds like you're her caretaker, and she gets to live the single life. She gets to have someone paying half or all of her bills, and helping take care of her kids.

My advice, don't marry her. End the relationship. It will only get worse, and you actually sound afraid of her reactions, which indicates that she has started manipulating you and that you need to start learning to stand up to her. 

I would end it.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Oh. I see the update. That's good that she is recognizing her mistakes, but eh. I don't know. I think this should be her best impression, since it's still a new relationship. If this is her best first impression, what will it be like five years down the road? 

You're not married to her, so you don't have any obligations.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

I think you hit the nail on the head with that last sentence. I verified that with my attorney, BTW.

So far, so good on the home front. It's been a few weeks and not a hint of slippage or reversion (to acting like we merely share space). 

I know that I have to keep my eyes open, and will do so. And I don't mind if she has to be on her toes somewhat and minding her manners.



*Deidre* said:


> Oh. I see the update. That's good that she is recognizing her mistakes, but eh. I don't know. I think this should be her best impression, since it's still a new relationship. If this is her best first impression, what will it be like five years down the road?
> 
> You're not married to her, so you don't have any obligations.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

DTO said:


> I know that I have to keep my eyes open, and will do so. And I don't mind if she has to be on her toes somewhat and minding her manners.


This is really important. As much as I love my GF, the fact that she knows if she gives me any amount of drama, I can find a replacement that day if I want to... Yeah, it keeps them on their toes. 

When I am in a relationship I am all in, I expect the exact same thing from her.


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## PigglyWiggly (May 1, 2018)

BluesPower said:


> This is really important. As much as I love my GF, the fact that she knows if she gives me any amount of drama, I can find a replacement that day if I want to... Yeah, it keeps them on their toes.
> 
> When I am in a relationship I am all in, I expect the exact same thing from her.


What is the longest relationship you've been in?


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

That's an odd question...

BTW, we're not necessarily talking about overt action to destabilize a relationship and generate unease in one's partner.

Instead, the point is to be a solid guy who brings a lot to the table and treats his partner well. Then, she intuitively knows she has a good thing and will work hard to keep you happy.




PigglyWiggly said:


> What is the longest relationship you've been in?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

How did she explain away the “you’re. It family, he is” statement?


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

She only said she was wrong to say it and acknowledged that I was right - if she wanted to form a new family, that family should be a priority.

I made it clear I'd accept no excuses. It was (1) she needs to be all the way in, and (2) if she ever said that again she'd better be packing already.

And (in case she had gotten complacent) I told her I was putting forth my best effort and it was up to her to make it work. And if she didn't, I'd be out on the market again quickly.

Sounds crappy, but I've seen enough women who think the guy will cave eventually. I made sure she was not of that mindset.



Evinrude58 said:


> How did she explain away the “you’re. It family, he is” statement?


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