# Venting about my "nice guy"!



## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

This is why "nice guys" get a bad rep sometimes. It is very frustrating to live with one!

H's birthday is coming up. Every birthday, I make him a cake and either cook him a special meal or go to a nice restaurant - his choosing. So, its only a few days away and I would like to know what he wants, so I can either plan and shop for the meal or make sure we have reservations for the restaurant he chooses.

What do you want to do for dinner on your birthday?
- Oh, I dunno...let's just order pizza?
Really? Wouldn't you like to do something a little nicer than that? Do you really just want pizza?
- Well, I don't want to have you go to any trouble, you'll be working and wont want to cook when you get home...
(Side note - this is not a true statement, as I come home from work and cook dinner for the family every night, I enjoy doing it and he knows that!)
Can't you just tell me what you really want? I told you its no trouble. I want to do something nice for you!
- I dont know, what do you want to do that night?
You didnt answer my question. I asked you what YOU want for YOUR biethday, i wasnt asking you to try to guess what I wanted. Just tell me!
-Well I was thinking it might be nice to go to that new sushi restaurant...but you probably wouldn't want to go all the way there on a Fri night after work, right?
I don't mind, I think that sounds like a nice idea. 

No matter how many times I ask him to plainly tell me what he wants, a conversation filled with hemming and hawing ensues.

A similar conversation went down about his cake - started with him telling me to buy one (when we both know he hates the taste of store bought cakes), then trying to guess what would be easiest for me to make, then actually telling me a specific cake he clearly wanted.

Then, just a couple of hours later, he does this -

-I got invited to a football party this Sunday at the presidents (of his company) house, but I already told them no that I was busy that day
Why did you do that?! You know we don't have plans on Sunday.
-Well, I figured you wouldn't want me to go.
Why would you think that? I have always encouraged you to go to things like that, and if the president invited you to his house don't you think you should go?
- Yea, but whatever. I already told them no.
Are the other managers going?
- Yea, everyone but me.
So, don't you think you should probably go?
- I guess...you really don't mind?
No! I told you to go!

Seriously ...why can't he just come to me like a normal human being, tell me he's going out for the game on Sunday. I have never given him a hard time, so the PA comments irk me to my core!

And, before you mention it, he's already read NMMNG and I don't think it sank in.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 45188 (Sep 13, 2012)

Wow this ones trying to keep you really happy. He must love you a ton. But yeah, it's pretty frustrating. You're like Just MAKE A DECISION ALREADY DAMMIT!


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I think, the next time I am asked what I want, I am going to be slightly unrealistic. Maybe I will get what I want and "damn the torpedoes". Why should I worry if it inconveniences her? She will tell me, right?
If she doesn't, that's her fault.


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## wiigirl (Jun 14, 2012)

kipani said:


> Wow this ones trying to keep you really happy. He must love you a ton. But yeah, it's pretty frustrating. You're like Just MAKE A DECISION ALREADY DAMMIT!


One of tgemost frustrating things for me is when people....dont...make....decisions!








_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

So he's like this all the time? Or is the dynamic different because you're trying to do something special for his birthday and he normally isn't the object of attention?


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

kag123 said:


> And, before you mention it, he's already read NMMNG and I don't think it sank in.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


kag123,

My humble opinion is that if he read the book and it didn't sink in then his challenges are due to something other than what is covered in the book so continue to help him and encourage him down different avenues.

I have the same problems with my wife (and she is certainly not a "nice guy" with regards to me) and this is how I currently handle it:

What do you want to do for dinner on your birthday?
- Oh, I dunno...
OK. Let's go out for sushi 

...

-I got invited to a football party this Sunday at the presidents (of his company) house, but I already told them no that I was busy that day
OK


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

Nope this is all.the.time....

Does anyone else see how frustrating this is? From simple things like going to the grocery store together, to the big things like buying a house together, it has been this way since we married.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

My wife is the same. I never know what she really want. She say that she would rather stay at home EVERY night as a family. 

One b-day she was so passive about a cake that I didn't even get one. Geez, I'll never do that again!

It seems as though she doesn't want me to do anything nice for her. If I were to guess...If I do something nice for her, she would feel obligated to do something nice for me!

I have to force my wife to get out and do something. I want to get out and do things also. If she doesn't, then I feel bad if I go out and leave her home with our daghter.

Don't know if any of that applies.


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## 45188 (Sep 13, 2012)

Mine is really picky about food but really unhelpful about choosing dinner. I'll eat anything that's not super meat heavy, but him? PFFFT!!!!

When we go grocery shopping, we sort of just stand there and I worry about picking food out he won't like, so I'm reluctant to grab anything new, even though I really want something new.

When it comes to buying a home (We're trying to do that now) he just seems impossible to please. Won't give any insight onto what he wants except "4 bed, 2 baths" and then when I find something he has a bunch of other things he now wants. I never know if hes happy with a present because at first he never shows enthusiasm even if he likes it.

SUCKS NOT KNOWING WHERE YOU STAND! 

7 years and counting here! 

Men :Eyeroll:


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## notperfectanymore (Mar 1, 2012)

ALLL....THE...TIME......

I have no solutions for you, but I live that same hell all the time...

MAKE A FREAKIN DECISION DAMMIT!!!!!

I get it, and it SUCKS!!!


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## Desperate_Housewife (Oct 15, 2012)

As far as birthdays are concerned, I'm not convinced it's a "nice guy" thing. All the men in my life hate to make a fuss over their birthday (I think they all hate being reminded that they're getting older, lol).

But I can understand your frustration. Indecisive people drive everyone crazy.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Already Gone said:


> One b-day she was so passive about a cake that I didn't even get one. Geez, I'll never do that again!
> 
> It seems as though she doesn't want me to do anything nice for her. If I were to guess...If I do something nice for her, she would feel obligated to do something nice for me!


Engaging in mind reading can be very dangerous. Encourage your wife to share her motivations with you and if she doesn't, she doesn't. Do what you think is right and don't try to guess what's in her head.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

You have to be direct with him.

Dear, your wishy washy indecision is a big turn off. I need you to be a man.

Or if he says Pizza then give it to him... And give him no sex either.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Or, like me, he could really just be so easy going it doesn't matter.

This frustrated my ex. Very often it was where we were going out to eat. If I was really craving something I would suggest it, but otherwise, I knew wherever we went I'd find something on the menu I was happy with. I'm just not hard to please. Really. No P/A behavior, no ulterior motive. 

Yes, I'm really just that easy. Life is good! I'm happy going out and don't care where!


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

kag123 said:


> Nope this is all.the.time....
> 
> Does anyone else see how frustrating this is? From simple things like going to the grocery store together, to the big things like buying a house together, it has been this way since we married.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ugh. So he never has an opinion about anything? Assuming that there aren't problems in other areas of your relationship which could cause him to hold back in this area (example: ask his input about something and then always reject it or hold it against him somehow), I would be tempted to make a cake you know he doesn't like and make reservations at a restaurant you know he doesn't like. Then later you could have a discussion about the true meaning of "I don't care" and "You decide." If he still doesn't get it, you will have to escalate.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

It's obvious what is going on... He's conflict avoidant and affraid of making his wife mad at him... WHY? BECUASE HE THINKS SHE WILL STOP HAVING SEX WITH HIM... Therefore you have to train him into behaving like a man = sex... and behaving like a wussy = no sex.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

VermisciousKnid said:


> Ugh. So he never has an opinion about anything? Assuming that there aren't problems in other areas of your relationship which could cause him to hold back in this area (example: ask his input about something and then always reject it or hold it against him somehow), I would be tempted to make a cake you know he doesn't like and make reservations at a restaurant you know he doesn't like. Then later you could have a discussion about the true meaning of "I don't care" and "You decide." If he still doesn't get it, you will have to escalate.


Actually, its worse than that.

Most of the time, yes he's easy going and will live with whatever decision I ultimately make (due to his lack of using his voice).

Sometimes though, he refuses to tell me what he wants, but will not hesitate to tell me later that he DOESN'T like what I chose.

He did this when we were buying a house. We literally ALMOST closed on a house, only to find out minutes before I called to realtor to close the deal that he didn't really like the house that much and had only been going through with it because he thought I was in love with it. I was livid that he didn't tell me sooner about his opinions!!

To try to put an example to this - if I took him to a restaurant I know he doesn't like, he would refuse to order anything and would sit there while I ate. If I asked him why he wasn't eating he would tell me he doesn't like the food there.

Another example - our basement flooded and we had to replace the carpet. Thru the whole carpet buying process, he was silent...bored even. I asked his opinion, he shooed me away. So, I picked a carpet, got it installed, and now it's done. It's been in for about six months now and we are having some problems with the carpet wearing funny on the stair treads. He looked at me the other day and said "I knew this carpet was a bad choice! Its cheap! You should have picked the nicer carpet!"

Wtf. Where was this opinion six months ago when I asked for it?

I have learned the hard way not to EXPLODE when he does this. Instead I now say, Your right dear, this is all my fault and then walk away to end the conversation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Why don't you just say ILYNILWY go have your EA and let me get a hold of him..

I was him.

I got better. Much better. Strong-beta. Alpha when I need to be. The leader of my marriage.

T2

Your husband is terrified to stand up to you. He doesn't want to upset he sex stipend. He feels lucky to have even found a wife who lets him sometimes get sex. That is awesome to him. He absolutely adores you and will bend over backwards for you hoping you don't leave him.
You are way to Alpha for him to feel comfortable to change. Because hes afraid of making you upset if he doesn't do it right. You scare him.

He needs to learn this on his own... you can't change him.
You are not his MOM so he will not listen to you.

ONLY HE CAN CHANGE HIMSELF... people don't change unless they HAVE TO.

Its like anything... he doesn't see anything wrong.
Its like an addiction to gambling... when you do it you see no wrong... no one can tell you to stop gambling... only YOU can decide to stop gambling and it usually is becuse you came to your own realization it was lame and a waste of money.

You are stuck until he feels the need to change for himself... only choice you have is to threaten his 'perfect' marriage. Wake him up... blindside him. Do a 180 and scare the hell out of him.

Hopefully he wakes up.

Or continue to gripe about it and accept him as is.
Be careful you might wake up a new husband.

You picked the nice guy... live with it OR shake things up so he gets it!
Upset that apple cart and let him scramble to pick up the apples.

To this day I thank my wife for saying to me ILYNILWY (I used it as a challenge). Our marriage needed fixed and later I used it against her to correct her significant issues I never noticed before. Now we are on track to a fantastic "fair" balanced marriage... and yes I'm still nice...mostly.

Takes a major event to affect major change.
Its hard and takes time.


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## captainstormy (Jun 15, 2012)

If he's that way about everything its a problem. I can agree with him on the birthday thou. 

I don't really care about my own birthday. I'd be fine if the day came and went without meantion. My other half always wants to do something big and special.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

kag123 said:


> Another example - our basement flooded and we had to replace the carpet. Thru the whole carpet buying process, he was silent...bored even. I asked his opinion, he shooed me away. So, I picked a carpet, got it installed, and now it's done. It's been in for about six months now and we are having some problems with the carpet wearing funny on the stair treads. He looked at me the other day and said "I knew this carpet was a bad choice! Its cheap! You should have picked the nicer carpet!"
> 
> Wtf. Where was this opinion six months ago when I asked for it?


I think I get it now. He may be so afraid to voice his opinion because he is afraid it may be wrong. If he lets you make ALL the decisions, he can come back later to blame you for the bad carpet, the wrong house, the bad restraunt... It will be all your fault! How can he be wrong if he didn't voice he opinion. And it was your fault that he didn't go to the presidents football party! After all, he didn't go because of YOU!

What you have learned and what many people know is already is that we have to be decisive, even if it means we may be wrong at times.


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

captainstormy said:


> If he's that way about everything its a problem. I can agree with him on the birthday thou.
> 
> I don't really care about my own birthday. I'd be fine if the day came and went without meantion. My other half always wants to do something big and special.


In my case, I don't mind celebrating but my wife turns every ounce of extra effort on her part into proof of her martyrdom. So if I have to listen to moans and groans about how stressed out she is, how long it took to get through the checkout line at the market, and any other complaint that the making of my cake will be the cause of, I'd rather just skip it. Because my wife is a glass half empty person. The rain cloud that follows her around didn't attach itself to her through some stroke of bad luck. She willed it in to existence. If she was told that she would win a million dollars by not uttering a negative word for a day she couldn't do it. 

But I'm not wishy-washy about making decisions. I'm just careful not to be the cause of one of her 'moods.'


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

It is frustrating. I was married to a controlling man who wanted to make all of the decisions & I was a doormat who went along to keep the peace but I hated it, resentment built an umovable wall & I left.

With new nice guy husband, it took me awhile to learn how to make decisions. A few times when I made a decision (movies, restaurants) he would do the sulking & sighing. I tell him to knock it off & it is working.

Good luck; tough one.


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

kag123 said:


> Actually, its worse than that.
> 
> Most of the time, yes he's easy going and will live with whatever decision I ultimately make (due to his lack of using his voice).
> 
> ...


WTF is right. In the case of the prematurely wearing carpet you could also say, "So you knew that the carpet would have problems but you didn't say anything? Well I had no idea. I just thought it would be a little less plush. So that makes you more responsible than me." That'll teach him not to open his yap after the fact. 

Your H isn't being too nice. He's being passive aggressive. This means he's angry about something.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Your husband is terrified to stand up to you. He doesn't want to upset he sex stipend. He feels lucky to have even found a wife who lets him sometimes get sex. That is awesome to him. He absolutely adores you and will bend over backwards for you hoping you don't leave him.
> You are way to Alpha for him to feel comfortable to change. Because hes afraid of making you upset if he doesn't do it right. You scare him.
> 
> ONLY HE CAN CHANGE HIMSELF... people don't change unless they HAVE TO.
> ...


Thank you for your response - it is nice to hear it from someone who has "been there, done that".

I think the first paragraph above is particularly insightful. My husband has said all of those things to me at one time or another, it's like he's permanently in awe of the fact that he landed a wife and kids - as if he's not worthy of having those things? I have heard him say this to me a time or two (it's rare for him to open up, so when he does I try to absorb every drop of what he is saying). I can't say I fully understand it, but I heard what he said. 

I wish I could make him feel differently. I think he's a wonderful person, I love him deeply, and despite my venting here - there are a lot of strengths he has that drew me to him. I think he has plenty to feel good about himself for. I often think to myself about all of his strengths and how lucky I am to have him. 

Also, I think the exact wording he used was that I am "intimidating". I don't know why, and I wish badly that I did, because I'd like to change that. I can tell you that I have never intentionally berated him, belittled him, or put him down for any of his opinions. I would love to know how to fix his perception of me but I don't know how, and he's not talking.

I definitely wear the pants - but, I feel it's because I have to, not because I necessarily want to. When he chooses not to make decisions or voice his opinion about things, stuff still needs to get done...life moves forward...and I end up picking up the slack. There aren't a lot of things in life that afford you the opportunity to be THAT indecisive. 

And, I put great effort into making sure I am still kind, caring, giving, making sure he has plenty of opportunity to take the reigns and voice his opinions and not walking all over him. THAT is why I get so resentful when he makes passive-aggressive statements that feel a lot like finger-pointing to me. It's not like I am running a dictatorship with an iron fist. I want this to be an equal partnership. I EXPECT conflict to occur, I expect us to disagree and I would welcome a healthy debate! At this point if he actually voiced his opinion clearly on ANYTHING, I think I would be so overjoyed that I would do whatever it is that he wanted to do, just because HE made the decision without hemming and hawing about it. 

But, he likes to throw this at me sometimes - "It doesn't matter what I like or don't like, because you will find a way to get the result you want no matter what." 

I resent that he says that. It feels like a cop out. You don't get to use that line unless you ACTUALLY speak up, and THEN I disagree with you and decide your opinion doesn't matter. If you never say anything, you forfiet your right to complain about it later. 

Anyhow - what do you mean about having an EA or telling him ILYBINILWY? I don't want to play games with him...I do love this man!


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

Already Gone said:


> I think I get it now. He may be so afraid to voice his opinion because he is afraid it may be wrong. If he lets you make ALL the decisions, he can come back later to blame you for the bad carpet, the wrong house, the bad restraunt... It will be all your fault! How can he be wrong if he didn't voice he opinion. And it was your fault that he didn't go to the presidents football party! After all, he didn't go because of YOU!
> 
> What you have learned and what many people know is already is that we have to be decisive, even if it means we may be wrong at times.


Yes, this is a major problem and it causes a lot of resentment.

I have a thick skin when it comes to criticism and will freely admit when I made a mistake. I grew up in a house full of criticism and it has molded me into a tough cookie - but also an extreme perfectionist. I hold myself to incredibly high standards and put a lot of effort and thought into everything, even things people might think are inconsequential. 

I can assure you with the carpet purchase - I spent weeks researching the different brands, types, installation companies, price comparisons, etc. I dont make decisions without the research to back it up. H knows this. And yea, I realized way before he said anything that I must have made a bad choice, I must have prioritized poorly (price over quality). So for him to make such a passive aggressive statement is particularly cruel, as he knows exactly how I am, and he out of anyone would have known that well before he said anything that I noticed the problem and that I was already internally beating myself up over it. 

Anyway! Of course I know that making mistakes is par for the course when you make a decision and move forward with it. As much as I hate making mistakes, I live with it knowing that I won't repeat it in the future...lesson learned. And I've learned that as long as I can forgive myself of my wrong-doings, I can live with whatever anyone else thinks of me (including H). 

However, how do you teach that to someone? Can you teach tolerance for mistakes?


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

VermisciousKnid said:


> Your H isn't being too nice. He's being passive aggressive. This means he's angry about something.


I agree - but angry about what?

How would I even begin to get that answer from him?


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

kag123 said:


> Thank you for your response - it is nice to hear it from someone who has "been there, done that".
> 
> I think the first paragraph above is particularly insightful. My husband has said all of those things to me at one time or another, it's like he's permanently in awe of the fact that he landed a wife and kids - as if he's not worthy of having those things? I have heard him say this to me a time or two (it's rare for him to open up, so when he does I try to absorb every drop of what he is saying). I can't say I fully understand it, but I heard what he said.
> 
> ...


I was being factitious...in reality you will eventually fall out of love with him always.

What I mean is he needs A WAKE UP CALL however you decide to do that.... so HE WILL CHANGE... he has to feel threatened to change.

Right now he is OK with his "perfect" marriage.

Time to shake things up and give him time to find his own answers or you will have to live with your nice guy the way he is.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

kag123 said:


> I agree - but angry about what?
> 
> How would I even begin to get that answer from him?


He's not angry.
He's afraid of making you upset.
As was said a few times, he's afraid to cause confict which makes you go bonkers and get emotional and come unglued and become not intersted in sex that day.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

The best thing you can ever say is "When you can't make a decison I lose all horniness"...


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

Hicks said:


> He's not angry.
> He's afraid of making you upset.
> As was said a few times, he's afraid to cause confict which makes you go bonkers and get emotional and come unglued and become not intersted in sex that day.


Don't you think that's a little presumptuous? I wouldn't say I go bonkers or become emotional. In fact, i am strangely cold and unemotional for a girl, and he has always said that bothers him a bit. I welcome conflict and am not afraid to hear what he has to say - it does not affect my desire for sex.

What does affect my desire for sex is the sheer exhaustion that comes along with having to do ALL of the emotional and mental heavy lifting in our lives, day after day.

Besides, he never initiates sex. Never. I have to go to him if I want it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

kag123 said:


> I have a thick skin when it comes to criticism and will freely admit when I made a mistake. I grew up in a house full of criticism and it has molded me into a tough cookie - but also an extreme perfectionist. I hold myself to incredibly high standards and put a lot of effort and thought into everything, even things people might think are inconsequential.


Not just a perfectionist, but an 'extreme perfectionist.' That puts your H's behavior in a different light, possibly. Maybe he feels like he has to defend his choices with the same kind of rigor you apply to yours? Maybe when your carpet choice fails he's taking a dig at your perfectionism?

I'm guessing that he's angry about how your perfectionism affects him. Maybe you spend so much time getting things just right that he feels neglected? These are somewhat educated guess as my W has perfectionist traits that are very irritating because she projects them on to everyone.


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

Would you rather have an a-hole for a husband?


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

Or put a positive spin on it: "wow, I get so turned on when you're decisive like that!" 

Then ravage him. I'll bet he changes fast!

Edit: I was responding to this: "The best thing you can ever say is "When you can't make a decison I lose all horniness"..."


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I read your original post earlier this morning, I started to laugh as I was reading, yeah... sounded a little familiar to me too. 

Then right after, had a talk with my husband basically making fun of how irritating it IS for us wives when NICE MEN (he's one too!) respond what I call "Limp wristedly" like this...it's like pulling teeth at times.... telling him about your BDay restaurant request, the cake, then how he handled the Football party....

I asked him..."what's your thoughts ?" ....how funny it was .....the same thing your husband said here!! (Yikes, what does that say about us wives  ) >>>


> *Kag123 said*: But, he likes to throw this at me sometimes - "*It doesn't matter what I like or don't like, because you will find a way to get the result you want no matter what".*


Now granted, my husband is very different, he NEVER throws anything back in my face or blames me .... that is unheard of for him to do... and when going in on any plans, we've talked. 

Also he wouldn't decline anything with friends ... that football thing would not have played down like that, he tells me everything he is invited too & if he is interested in going....

He IS very much like the words of 
*Enjoliwoman *here >>>


> he could really just be so easy going it doesn't matter. I'm just not hard to please. Really. No P/A behavior, no ulterior motive.
> ....Yes, I'm really just that easy. Life is good! I'm happy going out and don't care where!


We had the biggest laugh over this conversation - cause basically he is making ME look bad with that answer of his, but yeah... I can see it ....early on in our marriage, although I don't remember this so much....I can just imagine me weaseling what I wanted to do in the mix... there is no sense in lying, I am much harder to please than he is.....he is a sweet loving passive *Phlegmatic* Temperament and I am the brashy opinionated decisive *Choleric* ... that speaks it all.









Then I kept telling him.... but darn it, we still want an answer !! My husband is very sacrificial by nature, but not a martyr at all...and still...I am very careful he is on board before I do anything...that just matters to me. 

I am a huge question asker....this is something he needs in a wife.... He ALWAYS answers, if I get ...."You know best, you always pick good places" type answer...I may go up to him, grab him , say "Listen buddy, I want more than that outta you...now what the hell do you want? " & squeeze his butt or something ..... but he likes that, he likes the attention .... SO we kinda make it fun...I make fun of him, he makes fun of me.... I don't mind provoking him to get an answer...It is pretty easy.

We missed each other more in the past, when I wasn't paying as much attention to him, he is just not the type to speak up & demand what he wants. He is more someone who loves peace & just wants happiness in the family. 

To have a wife who understands how to pull these things out of him.....this is very helpful. And true, some just don't want blamed later if they make the choice...some wives (not saying me or you here)....maybe they would pi$$ & moan if things went the wrong way & she was against the original decision...for these types of men, that would be like inviting HELL into their lives. 

So however to get across to him, that ....darn it...his opinions, wants, desires -you NEED THEM, Praise them, welcome with uncritical arms -with a  (maybe more sex!)...no regret afterwards, this is HUGE for encouragement. 

In our house, we do feel like a "team"... 

However, if he pushed me aside, refused to answer, ya know, stuff like that, I'd be pulling my hair out too







and the types of comments your husband is giving you - 6 months after the carpet... right before the house is signed for... HE is DOING WRONG ON THESE THINGS..... that is just not right, I can so understand your frustration there.  

Mentioning carpet...for instance..... last year ... we got the carpet I liked downstairs in 2 rooms (Frieze style), but he preferred PLUSH... so we got those 2 this year upstairs...so both were happy, I didn't mow him down and say "I want Frieze all through the house (even though I did).... He let me choose the colors downstairs... (I am more choosy) ... And we let the kids choose their room colors upstairs.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

kag123 said:


> I wish I could make him feel differently. I think he's a wonderful person, I love him deeply, and despite my venting here - there are a lot of strengths he has that drew me to him. I think he has plenty to feel good about himself for. I often think to myself about all of his strengths and how lucky I am to have him.
> 
> 
> I definitely wear the pants - but, I feel it's because I have to, not because I necessarily want to. When he chooses not to make decisions or voice his opinion about things, stuff still needs to get done...life moves forward...and I end up picking up the slack. There aren't a lot of things in life that afford you the opportunity to be THAT indecisive.


kag123,

Here is the way this was explained to me and I will pass it along to you.

As long as you are willing to take over, your husband will sit back passively and let you do the work and carry the responsibility. If you are OK with that, it carries it's own set of problems. But since you are not OK with it, here is what I have been told is the solution.

When your husband refuses to make a decision, just leave it in his lap, tell him "you need to decide dear, I'm here to support you in whatever you decide", and wait until he comes around to it. A lot of couples have this problem and I know it is difficult for a "take charge" woman to stand around waiting for her husband to act. From what I have been told, this is the preferred way to get him to step up.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

Love your novel SA. Let us know when your first book is published


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## justonelife (Jul 29, 2010)

> As long as you are willing to take over, your husband will sit back passively and let you do the work and carry the responsibility.


OP - I think this part explains why Hicks jumped to an EA and ILYBNILWY. This kind of unbalanced relationship will lead to you feeling more like his mother than his wife and you will lose attraction for him.

He has to learn to take responsibility for some decisions and you need to learn to LET GO of some of the decisions. You say that you are a perfectionist. That you spend many hours researching each decision you make. Maybe that's why he is intimidated? It's not necessarily that he is afraid of you but he is intimidated by your competence in making these decisions. It may also explain his passive aggressive dig at you when a choice you made turns out not to be the best. He gets to feel a little relief that you aren't actually perfect.

I think the best way is simply refuse to make a decision without his input. Following the birtday dinner example:

You: What do you want for your birthday dinner?
Him: I don't know. Whatever is easiest. What do you want?
You: It's your birthday. Let me know when you decide. 

If the evening arrives and he hasn't made a decision yet:

You: So, what are we doing for your birthday dinner tonight?
Him: I don't know. What do you want?
You: Whatever you want. We'll wait until you decide but the kids are hungry...

You get the idea. Just keep dumping it back in his lap. Then when he makes a decision or offers an opinion, build him up. Tell him what a great decision it was and how much you appreciate him. Make him feel like it was the best decision ever and you couldn't have done it without him.


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## MarriedTex (Sep 24, 2010)

kag123 said:


> I have a thick skin when it comes to criticism and will freely admit when I made a mistake. I grew up in a house full of criticism and it has molded me into a tough cookie - but also an extreme perfectionist. I hold myself to incredibly high standards and put a lot of effort and thought into everything, even things people might think are inconsequential.


Without knowing more about your situation, the key to your troubles is right here - and it rests directly with you.

You are an "extreme perfectionist" - even in small matters. I will bet the mortgage that there were a string of decisions he made early in your relationship that did not meet your approval. Probably things that you don't even remember. Things he may not remember, either. But the lessons remained engrained, shaping behaviors moving forward.

You likely taught him that there's no margin in taking the risk of taking the lead. Even in picking a place to eat. Making a choice equals getting your b*lls cut off by Ms. Perfect. His avoidance of decisions is just an avoidance of getting judged by you. It started out as "peace-making." Now, it's just a habit. 

He may not recognize this pattern himself. Even if he did, he's never going to tell you. That would go against the grain of never giving you a reason to be angry with him.

His self-esteem is in the toilet. He was probably on his way there anyway. Not all your fault. But the aura of perfectionism probably deepened the problem you face today.

Do you have any major purchases coming up? Put him in charge of the weeks of research. Tell him you don't have time to do it and won't second guess him. If no major purchase coming up, maybe ask him to research getting new insurance at cheaper rates or something. 

He always defers to you because you are willing to step up and be the tough cookie. You want him to be the man. Fine, step back and give him some room to be the man. It's OK if you want to wear the pants in the family. No problem with me. No problem with him, apparently. But it is a problem for you. If you want change, then you are going to have to change your role and change your behavior. 

You helped train him to be a wuss. You have to find avenues that lets him assume a more active and valued role in family decision making. You have to step down so that he can step up.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Whether or not this is the case with the OP, that's a really good post ... and no doubt in my mind whatsoever, what you laid out is the point of origin for setting up this kind of dynamic.

It's training. It's learned. And to fix it, it needs to be unlearned.




MarriedTex said:


> Without knowing more about your situation, the key to your troubles is right here - and it rests directly with you.
> 
> You are an "extreme perfectionist" - even in small matters. I will bet the mortgage that there were a string of decisions he made early in your relationship that did not meet your approval. Probably things that you don't even remember. Things he may not remember, either. But the lessons remained engrained, shaping behaviors moving forward.
> 
> ...


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## rj700 (Jun 22, 2012)

kag123 said:


> But, he likes to throw this at me sometimes - "It doesn't matter what I like or don't like, because you will find a way to get the result you want no matter what."


This really sounds like resentment on his part. I think Tex is on the right track. I would add that you should make a few mistakes of your own and show him it's OK not to be perfect or right all the time.


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