# LD and Thyroid



## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

Hello everyone. This is actually my first post. I started reading about sexless marriages and the thought that I am not the only one out there is really comforting. Here is my story, if anyone is interested in giving me advice.

I was very sexually active in college. It was all sex and no feelings. When I met a girl that I fell in love with, I fell head over heals. The sex combined with love was just great, even though it wasn't spectacular in a technical sense.

I got married after 4 months of dating (1.5 months of that was on a military deployment). It did not get too long for her to get pregnant. The pregnancy turn some kind of switch in her, I was basically raped every night. It got to the point that I would pretend I am asleep, I would use excuses, because I could not go on sleeping 2-3 hours a night. When she started having contractions, she told me it felt like orgasm, and she pretty much used me like a piece of meat before going to hospital to give birth. Not that I minded.

Excuse me while I wipe a tear of my eye...

After the birth of of first child the switch was turned off. Our sex life started slowly to disappear. I left home for a year, and when I came back I realized that the standard was only once a year. I tried to be understanding, but when the frequency dwindled out to once a month I was concerned. I have to admit I might have been too aggressive in asking why, and pressuring her (only after more than one month of not having sex), and the MC helped me understand that. The MC had all kinds of ideas of how to help our sex lives, and we tried it all, and nothing worked. 

The MC looked for the psychological cause, but turned out he was way off. A couple years later our frequency became once every two months. A couple panic attacks later we finally realized that my wife had a thyroid problem. She got on medication, and I left home for a year and half. When I got back I was ecstatic. Our frequency returned to once a month, on the rare occasions even twice a month. At that time I lived with a hope that when my wife hits 30 she will start peaking. Plus I understood the source of her LD, and did not need to blame myself anymore.

As things were slowly improving, we had to move to Europe. She changed the thyroid medication to European, and she felt that it was not right. Our sex life dwindled to once a quarter, but I did not pressure, I wanted to be as understanding as I could.

We moved back to the US this summer, and turns out the medication was the problem. She got stronger thyroid medication, and in theory she felt better immediately. She got better in all areas, with the exception of sex.

So here we are, March, and we made love only once this year (only 4 times the previous year). I am a good kisser, and I love kisses, but we don't kiss, ever, with the exception of a peck on the cheek or the forehead, because that is all she allows. We hugged on the regular basis, I mean I hugged her, because I only got one hug from her this year. I would caress her hand or leg sometimes while watching TV, or driving, but I never got caressed back. I don't even know if she liked when I touched her, because I never got any reaction out of her. Like caressing a statue. The only physical contact that she would seek was to cuddle with me at night. She can't fall asleep without me being next to her.

I am 37, she is 33. I am a rather attractive guy, and she is too in my eyes, although after three kids she did gained a few pounds. I don't really notice it, only when she points it out. She comes from a broken family, went through a difficult parent divorce, and as a teenage girl witnessed her "uncle" cheating on her mom with another teenage girl. She is a good mother, and she loves me, and I love her too, but it is increasingly harder to see our relationship as it should be, because of building up resentment in my soul. 

In addition to being LD she is obsessionally jealous, if I even mention that I talked to a female coworker, she would reply with a sarcastic remark, or start yelling. She loves to yell at me. She blames me for everything that goes wrong in her life. Yesterday for example the toddler jumped on her and she spilled hot tea on her cleveage. It had to be painful, I know, and when I asked her a concerned question "How are you?", she would yell at me how do I think she is. Things like that never bothered me in the past, but combined with the intense feeling of resentment, they really hurt.

So, after reading some other forums, I decided to stop smothering her with affection. I stopped hugging, I started limiting the times I say "I love you", I stopped giving her "Honey I am leaving for work" kisses in the morning (she doesn't like when I forget to do that).

I am seriously considering cutting her off from my body when she falls asleep. I am thinking about moving to another bedroom. Do you guys think that will do me any good?


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Sorry you're here OP. I can understand thyroid being a cause of the LD, but if it's being properly treated then it should not be an issue. What do you do for a living that requires you to leave for such long stretches of time? Are you in the military? Just a guess, but my thoughts are you wife has resentment for you leaving the home for such extended stretches of time. She's stuck at home with the kids while you are out working. That's my initial assumption right now, but it it will be a work in progress as you share more details of your story.


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

I am military, you guessed correctly. My two deployments brought us at a brink of a divorce each time, but we pulled it through. I know she resented me being away, but there is nothing I could do about it.

What is OP? And where I can learn all the abbreviations that are being used in these marriage threads?


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

I suffered with undiagnoised hypothyroidism for years, it recks havic on your body and hormones. Your thyroid is hormone central! From what you posted it doesn't sound like she has her medication regulated correctly yet. You need to find a doctor or endocrinologist that is willing to work with you to adjust her meds to address her symptoms not to fix in the T3and T4 targets.

Once the took out my thyroid due to a large thyroid tumor my body went into extreme hypothyroidism with no thyroid. My sex drive went down to zero! I am normally a HD, it was a real shock. It took 8 months to get my meds regulated and my sex drive back. During that 8 months I had what was considered LD, but even though I didn't have a sex drive I still wanted to pleasure my husband. Usually it was a blow job, hand job or anal sex every other day...I really didn't care to have intercourse though. The point I am making is even if she doesn't have a sex drive...she should still realize you have physical needs. I have a hard time understanding wemon who think it is ok to just let their hubby suffer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

mineforever said:


> I suffered with undiagnoised hypothyroidism for years, it recks havic on your body and hormones. Your thyroid is hormone central! From what you posted it doesn't sound like she has her medication regulated correctly yet. You need to find a doctor or endocrinologist that is willing to work with you to adjust her meds to address her symptoms not to fix in the T3and T4 targets.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What you just did, was you gave me hope. Thank you!

Maybe she didn't get her hormones right yet. But she had the blood work done, and the doctor increased her dose. You said it took you 8 months to get your drive back? She didn't started taking her new pills until November, I think.

She will pleasure me with her hands but only when I ask, and if she is not too tired). Unfortunately, when I ask I keep thinking that she does it only out of pity, which makes me feel like crap.

I stopped kissing her on the cheek when Leaving for work, stopped saying "I love you" stopped hugging and today (only two days later) she put her head on my shoulder while watching TV. She never does that! Improvement?


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Rakkasan said:


> What you just did, was you gave me hope. Thank you!
> 
> Maybe she didn't get her. Hormones right yet. But she had the blood work done, and the doctor increased her dose. You said it took you 8 months to get your drive back? She didn't started taking her new pills until November, I think.
> 
> ...


The thing with thyroid levels is the normal range is from .5 to 5.0, in other wards one person can be .9 and be normal and another can be 4.5 and be normal. The range is very wide....this is why it is important to get a doctor who is willing to work with you to regulate your meds based on your symptoms not just the thyroid levels. 

Your wife sounds like her thyroid is to low yet. Google hypothyroidism symptoms...it will help you better understand her condition. If she is low there are other symptons still lingering as well. You might try taking her to an endocrinologist. Yes it took 8 months...but the doctor told me when they took my thyroid out it could take 6 to 36 months to regulate my. levels. Also understand that once they change your dosage they usually wait 3 months to see if it improves symptoms befor increasing or lowering the dosage again. .... its a slow frustrating process. 

You will know when the dosage is right...sex drive will be noticable (she will actually have one!) ;-) if it goes too high....she will get a little nympho....my hubster always thinks that is pretty great...but to high damages your heart. The other thing is your levels have to be checked and monitored ongoing...they will go up and down and your meds will have to be readjusted, this is more common in people who still have a thyroid or part of one left.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

The emotional trauma that goes on with hypothyroidism can be very hard....I lost about 1/2 my hair to the point I had to cut almost 15 inches off because it got so thin it looked bad...I lost my eyebrows and my finger nails got so dry i had to cut them off. I gained 100 lbs in a very short perod of time...going from 120 to 220 in no time at all. It was devastating. It is kind of hard to feel sexy when you lose 1/2 your hair and gain 100 pounds....but my hubster took me out to the adult toy store the week after my surgery and bought me $500 worth of lingerie and some really good libdo enhancers and told me I was still the sexiest lady around to him and that we would figure this out. We did, now it is mtly turn to return the favor. ..he has ED (erectile dysfunction)....thats what marriage is about working as a team. I know it is hard to understand how someone can have little to no sex drive...but it can happen with a messed up thyroid....its not that she doesn't love you ... her body just isn't working the way its supposed to. Hang in there....it will get better....don't stop working on getting her meds adjusted until the symptoms are gone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

mineforever said:


> ...During that 8 months I had what was considered LD, but even though I didn't have a sex drive I still wanted to pleasure my husband. Usually it was a blow job, hand job or anal sex every other day...I really didn't care to have intercourse though. The point I am making is even if she doesn't have a sex drive...she should still realize you have physical needs. I have a hard time understanding wemon who think it is ok to just let their hubby suffer.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Mrs. Mineforever,

:smthumbup::smthumbup:

If you're an athlete, you deserve a gold medal!


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

mineforever said:


> The thing with thyroid levels is the normal range is from .5 to 5.0, in other wards one person can be .9 and be normal and another can be 4.5 and be normal. The range is very wide....this is why it is important to get a doctor who is willing to work with you to regulate your meds based on your symptoms not just the thyroid levels.
> 
> Your wife sounds like her thyroid is to low yet. Google hypothyroidism symptoms...it will help you better understand her condition. If she is low there are other symptons still lingering as well. You might try taking her to an endocrinologist. Yes it took 8 months...but the doctor told me when they took my thyroid out it could take 6 to 36 months to regulate my. levels. Also understand that once they change your dosage they usually wait 3 months to see if it improves symptoms befor increasing or lowering the dosage again. .... its a slow frustrating process.
> 
> ...


You are awesome. I can't thank you enough. I even found a nice article Is Your Hypothyroidism UNDERtreated? 
that I will show my wife today.

You gave me hope. The tunnel started looking really dark in the past two months, but there is a light now, thanks to you.

And yes, you do deserve a gold medal.:smthumbup:


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

mineforever said:


> It took 8 months to get my meds regulated and my sex drive back. During that 8 months I had what was considered LD, but even though I didn't have a sex drive I still wanted to pleasure my husband. Usually it was a blow job, hand job or anal sex every other day...I really didn't care to have intercourse though. The point I am making is even if she doesn't have a sex drive...she should still realize you have physical needs. I have a hard time understanding wemon who think it is ok to just let their hubby suffer.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have a question for you. When we do have our quarterly sex, it is great, and she really enjoys it. The problem is that in order to have sex all the stars in the solar system have to line up just perfect. But once she starts enjoying it, she really does, and she has a strong orgasms.

She gets aroused really slowly, and when we made love, since the beginning of our marriage it required me doing oral on her for about an hour. We would break up the O sessions with PIV, just to go back to O. Sometimes we would finish with PIV, but not too often.

Lately, during our quarterly sex, she never lets me enter her. You mentioned that you did not care for an intercourse during your recovery. Do you think the fact that she does not care for me inside her could be related to her undertreatment?


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Yeah it probably does, it is really hard to explain. I never knew I could go from 100 to 0 so fast. When they took my thyroid and tumor out I went cold turkey no sex drive at all...quite a shock. My sex drive had started to decline befor hand though, the tumor was so big it started to destroy the thyroid (pushing me into hypothyroidism). So having said that except for a tumor, hypothyroidism usually starts slowly over years befor you really start to put all the symptoms together to realize what is going on. It is estimated that only 10 percent of the people suffering from thyroid issues are ever diagnoised...and 80 percent are diagnoised are discovered by accident...mine was dicovered by a car accident and CT scan. I had been to doctors for two years complaining of symptons and they never put the dots together just told me it was part of getting older. 

The thyroid controls your whole metabolism so when it checks out on you it effects everything just about. Hypothyroidism causes fatigue/exhaustion(slowing of the circulatory system), weight gain/bowel issues (slowing of the digestive system), muscle weakness/tiredness (potassium/calcium control issues - para thyroid), depression and low libido (hormone deficiencies) You look at all them together and it is a recipe for low libido. I would learn everything you can about Hypothyroidism and tratments. By the way personally I found the generic for sybnthroid didn't work as well on my weight and libido....of cource my insurance won't cover synthroid..best $50 a month I every spent though.

So I guess my answer is yeah, her body is working against her right now. The fact that she wants to do a bj for you is good, its not that she doesn't love you or want you to be happy the sexual chemesrty just doesn't exist to get her engines going. We used a libido enhancer to help me during that time. Not at home or I would tell you what it is. Had it ok'ed by the doctor ahead of time...they recommend it to help until your hormones are regulated.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## briansmith (Mar 2, 2013)

Thyroid Mistreatment, Hypothyroidism Scandals, and Thyroid Treatment Problems | Stop The Thyroid Madness best web page i have found on the subject, check it out, have her doctor check it out too. Its out of your hands brother all you can do is some research on the thyroid and show it to her, its up to her if she is willing to really dig in and get it fixed. My experience has shown that you can not rely on the doctors to fix the problem, it will be up to your wife to demand they fix her symptoms or go the natural route like my wife has. I feel ur pain as i have been cut off from all affection since last October when her thyroid crashed big time due to us leaving it up to the doctor. U know it should be 50/50 but when the thyroid is involved its all about them, i really dont think they can see past their nose for lack of a better term. I know my wife has no desire at all for any affection, she acts repulsed by it, i understand that so im willing no to peruse actual sex with her, thats me giving 50%, she should meet me half way and consider my needs as well and meet me half way with a hj or a bj once or twice a week and i cant even get a kiss. Its rough going brother, im not sure she will ever get better but she says she is feeling better. Let me take back a statement, we did have one night of fooling around, ii got to do oral on her and use a toy, she got off and really enjoyed her self, it took a bit to get her going but she did get going. Once she had hers she refused to have sex but i got a hj. So strange that i can use a vibrator on her and my toungs and fingers but im not allowed to actually have sex. anyways that was it man, she wont even let me try anymore and she has even admitted that it would feel good to but that she just has no desire to do so. Seems really selfish to me but i have to remember we are dealing with a messed uo thyroid which in turns creates all kinds of other problems that take time to fix.


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

Thanks for your advice guys.

No my wife would not give me a BJ, even after an hour of me doing oral on her (the only way she can get off in the past few years).

I talked to her about under treatment. She wasn't too thrilled about the subject. She showed no interest in reading the article, and mentioned that she might talk to someone about this. That usually means that she won't. She ended the conversation with a statement that too much of the hormone causes heart attack.

Yesterday stars aligned right. The kids were doing their afternoon nap, the eldest was out at friends and there was nothing on TV. I gently suggested that we hop in bed and lay there close together, like we used to (sex was not mentioned) but the answer I got was short sweet and to the point. "No".

I am considering moving to a different bedroom. It would be really harsh for her (I think). Should I do it?


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

Why is it so hard to touch one's husband??? My wife likes to touch and being touched by the toddlers, why she does not like my touch?


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Rakkasan said:


> Thanks for your advice guys.
> 
> No my wife would not give me a BJ, even after an hour of me doing oral on her (the only way she can get off in the past few years).
> 
> ...


You may have to rattle her tree (shock her) so to speak to get her to realize she has to deal with her thyroid. If moving to the other room would shock her enough then I say go for it. Remember her symptoms fatigue, depression, low libido...etc...its going to take alot to jolt her. Think about it this way, if this were one of your kids and they were only existing because they weren't willing to battle their disease to get better would you let them? 

She is right too much med will damage your heart...doctors are very cautious not to give you to much...almost too cautious. Thats why once they get you in the normal range they stop...but more doctors are starting to realize they need to better hone in the number for their patients quality of life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

What was she like before the thyroid, has she ever been more affectionate? If not..then you may need to read "No more Mr nice guy". If yes then she may be feeling like with her disease she can't control anything in her body but she can control one thing ...your sex life. Is she obsessing in control of other things?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Been thinking about what you said...you know there was a time when I was so frustrated with going in and them adjusting and adjusting my meds and not seeing any improvement that I got really down. I decided this was it I just wasn't going to get any better than low libido, thin hair, and my hangmans neck tie scar from shoulder to shoulder where the took out the tumor....ok I was feeling sorry for myself. Keep in mind the thyroid symptoms had really messed with my head and ego, I have always been a slim, petite women with beautiful long hair to my butt and had a great sex life 4-5 times a week for 25 yrs at that time. All I saw at that time was that I lost 1/2 my hair and had to cutt it off it got so thin, gained a ton of weight, lost my sex drive never going to enjoy sex again, got an ugly scar on my very pale skin that was impossibe to hide a red angry scar like that. I gave up and decided this was it for me. So after sulking for a week, the hubster got a belly full of my attitude and said find another doctor or I will find one for you. Sometimes we need someone to fight for us when we have no fight left. Sometimes just like with your kids you have to be hard on them for their best interest. I wasn't thrilled with him at the time, but I am glad he pushed me. Tyroid issues or in my case lack of thyriod are a life time battle...you have to decide is this a battle you want to fight with her. Sometimes people we love have to tell us things we don't want to hear....but its good for us. 

Ok now I want to go cuddle to with my big guy and let him know how much I appreciate him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

mineforever said:


> What was she like before the thyroid, has she ever been more affectionate? If not..then you may need to read "No more Mr nice guy". If yes then she may be feeling like with her disease she can't control anything in her body but she can control one thing ...your sex life. Is she obsessing in control of other things?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


When she was pregnant she turned nympho. I was physically exhausted. I slept at work, because I could not sleep at home. When she felt contractions she first raped me, then we went to the hospital. After the birth the passion started dying a slow death...


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

mineforever said:


> What was she like before the thyroid, has she ever been more affectionate? If not..then you may need to read "No more Mr nice guy". If yes then she may be feeling like with her disease she can't control anything in her body but she can control one thing ...your sex life. Is she obsessing in control of other things?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not sure how to answer that question. She likes having me around. All the times. She doesn't like me going to the gym, going to hunt in the mornings (full day of hunting is out of question. I went out with my guy friends like 5 times in my 11 years of marriage. She at first insisted that we had a joint email account, and we did, but that did not work for me. Now she settled for just having all of my passwords. She does check my emails and Facebook from time to time.


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Well it is evident she has some control and jealous issues even from befor. Those would be best addressed with an MC probably...the thyroid issues are probable compounding those issues. The pregnancy hormones were probable enhacing her sex drive during pregnancy. I would really recommend an appointment with a Gynecologist and Endocrinologist.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

mineforever said:


> Well it is evident she has some control and jealous issues even from befor. Those would be best addressed with an MC probably...the thyroid issues are probable compounding those issues. The pregnancy hormones were probable enhacing her sex drive during pregnancy. I would really recommend an appointment with a Gynecologist and Endocrinologist.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I will have another discussion urging her to see an endocrinologist. She actually came forth and mentioned her low sex drive to a gyno last summer. It costed her a lot if courage to do so. He basically told her that we are probably having too much sex and advised to slow down. I wanted to choke that guy.


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Here Gynecologist is an idiot!!! Encourage her get a new one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## briansmith (Mar 2, 2013)

i've tried the moving to the other bed room thing and it did not effect my wife at all. The most i got out of her is that it was stupid to do it. I end up going back to our room since the other bed is uncomfortable, i make mention that the bed is hard to sleep on and she says she can sleep in the other room if i want her too. I dont think there is anything you can do to jolt her into wanting to be intimate with you. You could pack your stuff and leave and it would do nothing for her. I have read so much on the thyroid subject and some many men say that there wifes treat them like they , the man are at fault, everything, all her issues are due to you. So they deal with it, make sure their wifes get the help they need and when it all gets better the wife tosses the man out in search of a new man. Why do we deal with it, we love them but there has to come a time when enough is enough right? Thyro-Gold and Image of Dr. John C. Lowe check this link out and order a bottle, do the 300mg pills, my wife is on two a day, its contains t3 and t4 natural hormones. I put money on it your wife is only being treated with a synthetic t4 pill. My wife says she feels so much better on thyro-gold. Still not better enough to treat me like im human but since i love her i can deal with it a bit longer.


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

mineforever said:


> Here Gynecologist is an idiot!!! Encourage her get a new one.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, I know. You don't have to tell me that twice. It was a Spanish Army gyno, and we moved to the US since then.


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

briansmith said:


> i've tried the moving to the other bed room thing and it did not effect my wife at all. The most i got out of her is that it was stupid to do it. I end up going back to our room .


Thanks for the advice, I will check out the link. In my case it might be a bit different, since my wife really needs me to fall asleep.

Funny that you mentioned that even the meds are not helping your wife to treat you like you are human. Sometimes I feel like I am my wife's worst enemy, blamed for everything that goes wrong in her life. I can't understand why sometimes she treats me so badly even though I am literally the only person on the whole earth that she is close to (not counting the kids of course).


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## briansmith (Mar 2, 2013)

She needs you to fall asleep? well then you might have some leverage if leverage works with these issues. Take away what comforts her ( you sleeping in the same bed) and let her feel how she is making you feel be rejecting you. Not sure if it would work but worth a try i guess. My wife just cant see it from my point of view, she says i just want sex, yeah i do but i want what all goes with it you know, the closeness, the love. Right now all she see's it as is a physical act she wants no part of and feels its wrong for me to want any since she does not want to provide that connection.


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

briansmith said:


> . My wife just cant see it from my point of view, she says i just want sex, yeah i do but i want what all goes with it you know, the closeness, the love. Right now all she see's it as is a physical act she wants no part of and feels its wrong for me to want any since she does not want to provide that connection.


Dude, your words sound like something I would say, verbatim. It is not about sex. It is about the emotional closeness that only sex can give. I can do fine without sex in a physical sense. 15 months without sex in Iraq? No problem. I did not have sex (with the exception of myself) but it did not bother me. 3 months without sex here and I about loosing my mind. If things don't improve I will volunteer for another year overseas.

Yeah, when I got back from Iraq after 15 months and made love to my wife for the first time, I felt like I am cheating on myself...


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

Brian, how do you cope with this. How long has it been like this for you?


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

briansmith said:


> i've tried the moving to the other bed room thing and it did not effect my wife at all. The most i got out of her is that it was stupid to do it. I end up going back to our room since the other bed is uncomfortable, i make mention that the bed is hard to sleep on and she says she can sleep in the other room if i want her too. I dont think there is anything you can do to jolt her into wanting to be intimate with you. You could pack your stuff and leave and it would do nothing for her. I have read so much on the thyroid subject and some many men say that there wifes treat them like they , the man are at fault, everything, all her issues are due to you. So they deal with it, make sure their wifes get the help they need and when it all gets better the wife tosses the man out in search of a new man. Why do we deal with it, we love them but there has to come a time when enough is enough right? Thyro-Gold and Image of Dr. John C. Lowe check this link out and order a bottle, do the 300mg pills, my wife is on two a day, its contains t3 and t4 natural hormones. I put money on it your wife is only being treated with a synthetic t4 pill. My wife says she feels so much better on thyro-gold. Still not better enough to treat me like im human but since i love her i can deal with it a bit longer.


I think it can be a powerful statement and it can work wonders. But it can also backfire. If you lie to her and tell her that it's no big deal and you just want better sleep or whatever then no it will not work. On the other hand, if you tell her that being celibate is unacceptable and you are leaving the bedroom because you're not sure if the marriage has a future or not, then that could be a wakeup call. 

One thing though, this can't be a bluff. A bluff will backfire in a big way.


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Rakkasan said:


> I will have another discussion urging her to see an endocrinologist. She actually came forth and mentioned her low sex drive to a gyno last summer. It costed her a lot if courage to do so. He basically told her that we are probably having too much sex and advised to slow down. *I wanted to choke that guy*.


I suggest a sleeperhold


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

Thanks for that!!! I needed that!!!


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I think it can be a powerful statement and it can work wonders. But it can also backfire. If you lie to her and tell her that it's no big deal and you just want better sleep or whatever then no it will not work. On the other hand, if you tell her that being celibate is unacceptable and you are leaving the bedroom because you're not sure if the marriage has a future or not, then that could be a wakeup call.
> 
> One thing though, this can't be a bluff. A bluff will backfire in a big way.


This is a good piece of advice. Thanks. Once I grow a pair and decide to implement this I will let you know the results.


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

briansmith said:


> Thyroid Mistreatment, Hypothyroidism Scandals, and Thyroid Treatment Problems | Stop The Thyroid Madness best web page i have found on the subject, check it out, have her doctor check it out too. Its out of your hands brother all you can do is some research on the thyroid and show it to her, its up to her if she is willing to really dig in and get it fixed..


I sent her the site today. When we were in the car she asked why did I do it, she didn't seem too thrilled. I explained to her what I learned about the undertreatment. She replied that too much of the hormone can plunge her into hypothyroid. I insisted that she still have symptoms and that she needs to talk about to the doctor. Again, she was not too thrilled, but she agreed. Maybe she will talk, or maybe she agreed to get me off her back.

It is getting harder to pretend that everything is OK.


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## briansmith (Mar 2, 2013)

Is she hypo or hyper thyroid? either way she needs to educate her self on the subject and not rely solely on her doctors advice. After a while it just becomes an excuse to not get treated right. The wife and I had another blow out tonight, she is absolutely willing to destroy our 17 year relationship and absolutely willing to destroy her kids lives over this this. Its all about her and what she wants or does not want and no consideration for my needs. Should i be the bigger man and choose to live a loveless life for the kids sake? I dont think you can split up a family and have not effect kids in a negative way period....Right now i have never known someone to be so selfish as she is being. To her any sexual contact is having sex and she is just not willing to have any part of it. Im really starting to think this is not a hormone/thyroid issue at all.


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

briansmith said:


> Is she hypo or hyper thyroid? either way she needs to educate her self on the subject and not rely solely on her doctors advice. After a while it just becomes an excuse to not get treated right. The wife and I had another blow out tonight, she is absolutely willing to destroy our 17 year relationship and absolutely willing to destroy her kids lives over this this. Its all about her and what she wants or does not want and no consideration for my needs. Should i be the bigger man and choose to live a loveless life for the kids sake? I dont think you can split up a family and have not effect kids in a negative way period....Right now i have never known someone to be so selfish as she is being. To her any sexual contact is having sex and she is just not willing to have any part of it. Im really starting to think this is not a hormone/thyroid issue at all.


Mr. Smith,

LD-ness is part of a person's personality, but it does not justify being selfish. Repeatedly and chronically rejecting sexual duties to spouse just because "not in the mood" is somewhat selfish.

Your wife's thyroid problem is a misfortune, but it does not justify not getting treatment. Deliberately not getting treatment, just to make it a justification for not giving you sex, is selfish.

This is not Alcatrazz, you have a right to ask for a divorce, and this won't make you a bad father, as long as you still support your children the best way you can.


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

I second that.

Right now I live with hope. I cannot leave my loved one in the time of need. But if I find out that my loved one is torturing me on purpose I am jumping ships.

What exactly did you have a fall out about?


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## briansmith (Mar 2, 2013)

our fall out was over her lack of affection with me. Its getting old man, we talk then argue and its just a vicious circle. She simply just does not care and there is nothing i can do about it.


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

Brian, that is tough. What kept me from loosing my mind was the hope. Hope that the things will improve with age, with medication, with pregnancies. Now that I started this thread I have hope that she is under treated, and maybe things will be normal again once we figure this out.

I would talk about the lack of affection before, but that never led to anything good, so I stopped talking about this. We never do talk about sex. Well, I only talk about it in a positive way, only after we do it on those rare occasions, for positive reinforcement.

In your case it sounds like you don't have what I have. You don't have hope for improvement. How old are your kids? What are your views on a divorce or an affair?


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

briansmith said:


> our fall out was over her lack of affection with me. Its getting old man, we talk then argue and its just a vicious circle. She simply just does not care and there is nothing i can do about it.


I am in my 40's and would be an extreme case of hypothyroidism. ...I have no thyroid due to tumor. Yes hypothyroidism does affect your libido but it DOESN'T affect your desire to show your husband that you love him. What she is doing is using her illness as an excuse to mask a different issue. Like I mentioned befor sometimes the people we love have to push us / make us deal with our issues. My hubby has had to threaten to go get me a new doctor or make my appointments for me befor because I got so discouraged because I saw no progress. 

I will say in this area hubby is not Mr Nice Guy...it sounds like your still being Mr Nice Guy with your wife....tbe principles still stand concerning being too nice and getting taken advantage of .... don't let her use her illness to control your sex life. There are support groups on line for couples dealing with thyroid issues have you read them?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

My wife shows me that she loves me in other ways besides sexual. She loves to have her morning coffee with me on weekends. A bottle of wine on Saturday and Friday evenings. She puts all her heart in cooking for me. Well, that is about it. When I stopped saying the dreaded "I love you" words, I realized I was the only one saying them.

Well, today is the International Women's Day. Good reason to come home with flowers. Tonight is also a date night for us, just us, no kids. We should have fun at our club's happy hour as long as I don't leave her company for longer that 5 min, as long as don't neglect her by talking with the guys, as long as I don't exchange as much as a word with any member of the opposite sex that she considers attractive. If all goes well she will be in a happy mood when we get home. The normal routine after our date nights is that she wants to drink wine and watch a movie after the movie I will go to the bedroom alone, and she will be catching up with her Facebook friends until I fall asleep, alone. when she finally makes it to bed she is so tired that she will only want to cuddle so she can fall asleep.

Well, today after our date night I will suggest a butt massage (something that she absolutely loves). If she will chose her Facebook friends over the perspective of having her butt massaged and lotion rubbed on it by a husband who needs her she will have to sleep alone tonight.

Anyway, we are awaiting her blood results, to see if her new pills are working.


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

Tonight's rejection was especially hard. We had our date night last night. It went fine, we both had a lot of fun. We got home late. When I suggested her favorite butt massage she said she is too tired. She promised tomorrow.

I was very disappointed, but it was really late...

Today we had a great day. I got her flowers and got a kiss on lips. First kiss on lips in a long time. I was ecstatic and my resolution to not show affection and not hug her went out of the window. We went for a nice long walk in the sun, and after I put the kids to sleep we watched a movie and had a bottle of red wine. Then we watched another movie, because she was not done with the wine. I wasn't too happy with that, but what could I do?

Then she tried the old routine. She wanted me to shower first and wait for her in the bed. In that situation she usually surfs the net until gets really late, and then she comes to bed. I insisted that she goes first.

The butt massage went very well. She loves it (at least used to love it). Then I undressed her and proceeded to caress and kiss her body. It is always me doing the caressing, but I got used to it. Nevertheless I actually felt the desire boiling in me, something I have not felt in a couple years. It had to be the morning kiss... Then she told me that she just want to cuddle. She said that her period lasted a few weeks longer than it should, and that she is in pain. I don't know if she really was, or it was just an excuse. She always has a perfect excuse for avoiding contact with me.

We actually had a conversation. I manned up enough to ask her in as non confrontational tone of voice as I humanly could muster, why does it seem that it so hard for her to touch me. She got really defensive and actually raised her voice to explain that she is being touched all day by the toddlers, and she just does not think about touching me. 

When I replied that touch is really important to me, she added in borderline angry voice that she will try to think about touching me in a future. God I felt like such a looser. I replied that I will try not to inconvenience her with my touch.

I layed in bed for a while, but sleep would not come, so here I am venting on a public forum, for the world to hear about my marital problems. It is 4am. I am alone. I hate my life.


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## briansmith (Mar 2, 2013)

Im right there with your bro. In fact im sleeping downstairs tonight and will be from now on it seems. Its the only thing i can do to keep from lashing out at her. We had a rough start this morning about our usual, you know her lack of affection, day went on and we started painting our kitchen. We were having fun, broke open a bottle of almond rocca wine and she drank the whole thing, she was feeling good and acting silly. She took a long bath and even let me pop my head in there and chat a bit. Once she was out i figured hey why not try, maybe she has loosened up a bit and might be receptive to me. How stupid on my part. So now im stuck sleeping on this uncomfortable bed. She says its stupid of me to sleep down here, she is absolutely clueless about how ****ty she makes me feel. She keeps bring up that she is tired of fighting with me and she keeps bringing up how angry i get with her, i have called her names i should not call her but my god man i just want to make her seel as worthless as she makes me feel. Im just at the end of my rope.


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

Brian, it is selfish on my part, but it feels good that there is a soul in the world who is in exactly same situation as I am. I never came back to bed last night. Slept on the uncomfortable couch, a couple hours at the most.

So, what are you doing now? I think I will drag a mattress out in the attic, and continue sleeping alone. Like I mentioned before, this is the only physical closeness leverage that I can withhold from her, she can care less for all the other trappings of a physical relationship, but she needs to cuddle with me to fall asleep.

So, she will either ask me to come to bed either tonight or a couple nights from now, and I will agree for exchange of a serious talk about our feelings.

Or maybe she will get used sleeping alone, and I will lose the only leverage I have over her.

Or maybe I give up in my resolution to sleep alone, because I love her and I am weak.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

God I can't believe you're still buying her flowers and taking her on date nights. Wow. Are you purposely ignoring everything you read here? Dude, you're rewarding her behavior. You're training her to treat you this way. She now thinks if she keeps rejecting you you'll try even harder. Please, stop chasing her. Wait for her to chase you. Work on yourself. Start acting a little more single. Go out with the guys. Get a hobby. Don't call and check in. Let her feel you detaching. Stop asking about her day. Stop trying so hard. It's painful to read.


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> God I can't believe you're still buying her flowers and taking her on date nights. Wow. Are you purposely ignoring everything you read here? Dude, you're rewarding her behavior. You're training her to treat you this way. .


Basically what you are saying is that I finally need to grow a pair and start acting like a man for a change, instead of acting like a supportive and sensitive looser. Yup. I concur. How can she respect me if I don't respect myself?

But not everything is as white and black as I would like it to be. There is the thyroid issue. It is not her fault that she no longer has any attraction for me left. She can't control her hormones. The posts from the female perspective on this thread have helped me a lot.

Anyway, here is my oath.

I (state your name) do solemnly swear that I will not utter the dreaded "L" word ever again, that I will not kiss, caress or hug the only woman I love, that I will not ask how her day was, and that I will take full advantage of whatever is left of the hunting season. I won't let her yell at me over stupid s**t a anymore either. So help me Cupid.

Here, I be done it. It is official. I will keep you posted how it works.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

You keep saying that and then turning around buying flowers and begging. I don't think you can know for sure it's her thyroid as long as you're acting in a way that turns her off.


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

Because I am weak. Also I was writing this stuff to help me gather the courage to execute my devious plan when the time is right. Also I thought that my milder form of the detachment therapy worked. I got a first kiss in a couple years. She seemed to be receptive. And I so wanted it to work. Oh well, lets just treat this incident as the last try to do it the easy way before resorting to harsh treatment. I am the only person in the whole world that she is close with, and she will be hurt.

Flowers? Well, it was the international woman's day, and they did not mean as much as if I got them spontaneously. I am not doing that crap.

Plus there is this intense feeling of guilt when I don't sleep with her. Out of our 11 years of marriage she spent about 3.5 sleeping alone. That caused her go through panic attacks too. That is why is so hard for me to resort to not sleeping with her. But I did last night. And I will tonight. Question for you guys is under what conditions do I return to sleep with my wife?


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

So, the night before, I was turned down when I started caressing my wife. She just wanted to cuddle. I cuddled with her, then I laid awake for like an hour or so, my heart filled with built up resentment. Then I got up, I left the bedroom and I did not come back.

Last night it was different. Before going to bed I sat next to my wife and told her that I understand that she has no control over her desires for me, and I admitted that I probably was a little bit too "pushy" when it comes to sex. I explained to her that I realized that this was wrong for me to be so "pushy" an that I won't do that anymore. I told her that I decided to give her more personal space and I will patiently wait until she starts wanting me again.

She seemed to be relieved when she heard it. She smiled innocently clearly taken how understanding of her problems her husband was. Then I went to sleep. In a separate bedroom that is.

She followed her daily routine, she surfed the net until she was sure that I am asleep and she came to bed to cuddle with me before drifting off to sleep. 
Except I was not there. Her bed just stood there, cold, empty and uninviting. She was clearly hurt and angry when she found me sleeping alone. I felt this immense guilt for hurting her feelings, but stayed true to my resolution.

Something amazing happened to me today. It took me a few hours to realize that the feeling of resentment is no longer there. I felt in control of my feelings. For once I did not have sex because I chose not to have sex. I haven't felt that good since last time we made love (early January). I love it! Thanks for pushing me guys!

I am pretty sure that I will get "punished" tonight. When she is unhappy with me, she usually shows it by withdrawing her affection and/or yelling at me. Well, I won't take crap from her anymore, and there isn't any affection left in her that she can possibly withdraw. I feel free, I feel relieved and I don't feel resentful anymore.


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

I tried to talk to my wife about what happened last night, why did I move out. Well, the conversation did not go well. Basically, she said that if I want to punish her, then she is just ready to leave me, go home where she had a job and was happy. Then she blamed everything on me, on my girlfriends. Well, it is true that 12 years ago I exchanged a few emails with my ex fiancé, and that 10 years ago she found these emails while going through my deleted folder (I haven't emailed that girl for 2 years by the time she found the emails).

So here I am, all moved out. Wife is angry with me. What do I do now?


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Call her bluff. Tell her that you're not happy either and if she'd rather leave and go home than be with you then maybe it's for the best. Seriously, she's just playing a trump card to manipulate you.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

By the way you just got a huge clue from her that one of the big reasons she does not want to have sex with you is because she resents you for making her live so far away from her family. I don't believe this is simply a thyroid issue for one second. I know it's hard, but this is progress my friend. Congrats.


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> By the way you just got a huge clue from her that one of the big reasons she does not want to have sex with you is because she resents you for making her live so far away from her family. I don't believe this is simply a thyroid issue for one second. I know it's hard, but this is progress my friend. Congrats.


She used that bluff of wanting to go home on many other occasions. It gets old after a while. 

But it is not her family that she misses. She is unable to talk to her dad. Her sister lived with us for many years, and she would stupid crap to make her own sister feel bad. She treated her like crap. They always fought. I got along with her sister fine, and she wasn't even able to talk to her without getting mad. Her mother lives abroad, my wife talks to her mother even less that than she makes love to me. When her mother visited us for a month, they hadn't spoken a single word with each other towards the end of her stay.

She loves both of her grandmas (also abroad) but she literally has to force herself to talk to them twice a year.

My wife has absolutely no one that is close to her, no one she can talk to except for me. She builds walls to separate herself from the people she loves.

She resents me for taking her away from Hawaii. Now that you made me think, she was in control of her life there. I brought her to Hawaii for only six years, and she managed to find close friends there, she had a good job, she could go to the beach whenever she wanted. She had control of her body, she was thin there too. We moved three times since we left Hawaii in 2009 and she hasn't managed to find a friend since then, or get a job. I think she finally started to get fulfilled here where we live, she goes to a good school and seems like she took control of her life again but I threw a curve ball - I moved out of the bedroom.


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

Day three of moving out. When I got back from work she was clearly still resentful for me moving out of our bedroom. Towards the evening we had something resembling a normal conversation. Progress?


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

My friend, when she comes into your room to initiate sex then you'll know you've made progress.


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> My friend, when she comes into your room to initiate sex then you'll know you've made progress.


So this is the milestone I should set up for me to return to our bedroom?


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

I finally got my long awaited copy of "No More Mr Nice Guy" written by pastor Stephen Brown. It is all about Jesus and Christianity, and faith. Who was that recommended that to me???


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Rakkasan...that would be me .... I who recommended it. There are a lot of other stuff in there too... stuff about setting boundaries, being less passive agressive and more direct too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

mineforever said:


> Rakkasan...that would be me .... I who recommended it. There are a lot of other stuff in there too... stuff about setting boundaries, being less passive agressive and more direct too.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You probably recommended NMMNG by Dr Glover. I erroneously ordered a Christian NNMMNG by pastor Brown. I already ordered the correct book, but sucks that will have to wait another few days to read it.


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

Day 5 of sleeping separately. Our conversations are still very shallow, but she got better at not showing how upset she is. She went to the gym tonight, on her own. She never did that before. I am glad.


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Initiative is good, maybe she is noticing more than you think.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

Thanks for pointing it out. My wife is a very proud person, never willing to make a first step. I know that she needs me at night, but I wonder if she will ever ask me to come to our bed.

It bothered me that she always wanted to spend all of her time with me. I am glad that she did something on her own. Not sure about the motivation though. She liked for us to go run together after the kids fall asleep, and when I asked if we are running tonight she said that she is going to the gym.

So, I am still glad that she went to the gym, but I kind of suspect that she did this to get back at me. Not sure though.


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## vahlaria (Jan 31, 2013)

Sexual Health, Your Thyroid and Thyroid Disorders - Hypothyroidism and Hyperthyroidism - From the Thyroid Blog at MedicalOnly.com

please read.


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

Thanks for the links. I will get right on it!


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

Thank you. That explains why she initially lost so much weight and why she became so obsessed with sex.

Great article!


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

She is definitely still upset about me moving out of our bedroom. I need to be more direct about confronting her about her yelling at me, I hate that.

She has always blamed me for everything that goes wrong in her life, so I am pretty sure this is the case now. I am pretty sure she views me moving out as a punishment, and she is clearly resentful.


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Well you are sending her a message...now you got her attention so be direct and talk to her about what has driven you to take this measure. Remember when having confrontational conversations it is best to keep your voice even and low and add some positive comments (encouraging) in with the negative. 

By the way her yelling is very wrong that is verbal abuse...bullying. When she yells you should walk away and say when your ready to communicate in an adult civilized manner let me know but I am not discussing anything with you if your going to be disrespectful. Yelling is the adult version of a 2yr olds temper tantrum.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

Mineforever, thanks for the advice. I wanted to talk to her about what drove me to take such a step, but she clearly did not want to talk. I only raise my voice when she raises hers. I don't ever get upset, except when she is upset at me but if the talk happens, I will stay calm. I will have to remember to concentrate on how I feel instead I accusations "I feel rejected" instead "you reject me". I think that is key.

I have a feeling that she won't want to talk to me. She is clearly convinced that the fault is mine, an that she is the victim, like it was for the past 10 years. I wonder, if I was so evil, why did she ever marry me?


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

I hate to hear her blaming everything on you....that is wrong. Marriage is a two way street you both have your part. From everything you have said it sounds more like she is just deflecting because she doesn't want to deal with the issues.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

We had a pretty good Saturday together. Started off rough, she got up and started yelling at me for some stupid ****, but I straight up told her not to yell. Why would you yell at a husband who got up early to cook you a delicious omelette for breakfast?

She calmed down and we had a pretty good day together. We had a bottle of wine at night, and it was so hard for me to resist touching her, but I did. I hoped she would bring up the subject of our love life, but she hadn't. Not she made any effort to touch me.

So here I am, sleeping at the attic again...


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Mr. Rakka,

You're a military man, so, prepare a back-up plan when all else fails. It's called "safe withdrawal". 

Imagine that you're in enemy territory, and she has repeatedly foiled your attempt to gain your objectives, while she could attack your positions with near-impunity (read: you're fulfilling your obligations as a husband, but she denying you what's rightfully yours).

Now you're trying to implement a plan of stop attacking your objectives, and dedicate your energies to revamp your defenses. With the hopes that by denying her access to your positions, she would call a truce and getting back to negotiation table.

However, you and me and all military strategist in the world knows that you'll need to prepare for a safe withdrawal. Because, in case negotiations doesn't work to get you your objectives, then you must be ready to admit that the "infiltration to enemy territory" was a strategical mistake, and you have to prepare plans to get out of the territory with most of your troops and equipment intact. 

Yes, I am advising you to prepare for the worst. The "D" word. The confrontation is already ongoing, and you know that "D" is one of the possible outcome. Better be prepared than to be caught unprepared.

Sorry for my pessimism. I hope optimist people here will counter my pessimism.


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

john_lord_b3 said:


> Mr. Rakka,
> 
> You're a military man, so, prepare a back-up plan when all else fails. It's called "safe withdrawal".
> 
> ...


John Lord. Thank you for the military analogy. You have a way to describe complicated relationship in a way that even a dumb grunt like myself will understand it :smthumbup:

OK, so you are right. I made numerous attempts to assault enemy positions. I had some small victories in the past, about once every quarter, but I came to realization that the cost outweighs the tactical advantage that those small victories gave me. So I did stop attacking the objective, and I started preparing for a defense in place. I have to say that she is shocked my my sudden lack of initiative, and a bit confused. The enemy is so used to being on the defense and me doing all the maneuvering, that I am not sure if she even knows how to fight for the marriage. So right now it is a stalemate. She thinks that after I get the foolish idea out of my head I will come back to her like a dog comes back to its cruel master, with its tailed tucked between the legs, and beg for her forgiveness, even though it is not my fault. She had to use my computer last night. When she was done she just left it outside her (formerly our) bedroom door, lying on the floor in the hallways as if she wanted to say: "It was your choice to move out of our bedroom, now suffer the consequences." I don't think she gets how serious the situation had became, how close I am to a divorce, she thinks I just play games to get back at her, to "punish her" for not having sex with me.

Well, I am not going on offense again. I will not come to her. I will offer the negotiation table instead. I will insist that she goes to her endocrinologist and tells him about her low libido. I will insist on marriage counseling. And if that fails?

Well, the tactical retreat, or the divorce is the last resort. I know that I cannot continue to fight through life this. However; a withdrawal would have disastrous consequences. I would have to leave all the supplies, all my men (I am talking about the three little men that I love), my tactical vehicles, and my encampment to fall into the hands of the enemy. Yes, I will save my life, but at what cost? I think I would be ruined. In the military your wife is entitled to half of your military retirement as well.

Well, I am determined to feign a retreat (a good military word, "feign"). I will abandon my defenses but without the intent of permanent withdrawal and when she finds the objective empty, she will will be vulnerable, vulnerable enough to accept my conditions I hope.

Just out of curiosity, is there any chance that the divorce court would give me the custody of my 10 year old, who really does need a father figure in his life? I am not even hoping for the custody of my toddlers, but is there a way to get the 10 year old to stay with me?

Anyway, tonight I will try to talk to her about scheduling another visit with the endocrinologist and actually talk to him about her low libido.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

Rakkasan said:


> She is definitely still upset about me moving out of our bedroom. I need to be more direct about confronting her about her yelling at me, I hate that.
> 
> She has always blamed me for everything that goes wrong in her life, so I am pretty sure this is the case now. I am pretty sure she views me moving out as a punishment, and she is clearly resentful.


I was trying to send Belalegosiisdead a PM and sent it to you by mistake ....I wonder if it wasn't some kind of divine intervention, as your post shows exactly the situation I was in...

I have seen a change in my marriage that is spectacular. And I give the 5 love languages most of the credit.....My wife is easy to talk to, has lost her negative attitude, or when she shows it, makes up for it in "UNBELIEVABLE FASHON". We now make out like teenagers....I feel like I am on an extended honeymoon.....

If you get half the results we did, you will thank the woodchuck for the rest of your life.


Good luck
The woodchuck


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

Well I have 4 books now. Sex Starved Marriage, and I am waiting for NMMNG, 5 love languages and the book about the MAP, something about a primer.

I will get really smart on the sex issues, and if that doesn't work, well I can always become a marriage counselor, right?


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Rakkasan said:


> John Lord. Thank you for the military analogy. You have a way to describe complicated relationship in a way that even a dumb grunt like myself will understand it :smthumbup:


My late grandfathers from both sides of the clan were military generals, as well as one maternal grand-uncle.. so, between them, I had three elderly soldiers swapping war stories, with me listening intently to their tales, both real and exagerrated..  

Glad you could appreciate my analogy 



> ..She thinks that after I get the foolish idea out of my head I will come back to her like a dog comes back to its cruel master, with its tailed tucked between the legs, and beg for her forgiveness, even though it is not my fault....I don't think she gets how serious the situation had became, how close I am to a divorce, she thinks I just play games to get back at her, to "punish her" for not having sex with me..


Well, soldiers are not known to give up without a fight. I am happy to hear that you will not be groveling back like a dog. You're a military man, you won't give up even when confronted by superior enemy firepower.. why should you give up when fighting for your rights?



> Well, I am not going on offense again. I will not come to her. I will offer the negotiation table instead. I will insist that she goes to her endocrinologist and tells him about her low libido. I will insist on marriage counseling. And if that fails? Well, the tactical retreat, or the divorce is the last resort. I know that I cannot continue to fight through life this..


A divorce if not shameful, if you have already made every efforts to save the marriage _without_ sacrificing your rights. 

When your wife married you, she consented to sex, thus your rights to have sexual relations with her is not open to question by anyone, even God. If she's refusing sex every now and then, let's say 3 rejections for every 10 requests, (not ALL THE TIMES), it is ok and fair, because every women has rights to their own body. They should never be forced to have sex, the willingness must come from their love of their spouses.

But chronic refusal, refusing sex ALL THE TIMES, it is NOT OK in a relationship. It's like buying a computer which cannot be used to connect to the Internet. You will consider the computer useless and either (1) bring it to a repair shop to get it fixed, or (2) throw it away and upgrade to a better computer. Same with your spouse. If there is a wife who does not give her husband sexual satisfaction, or a husband who does not provide for his family.. their action could be considered as a breach of service contract, and are legitimate reason for a divorce.



> However; a withdrawal would have disastrous consequences. I would have to leave all the supplies, all my men (I am talking about the three little men that I love), my tactical vehicles, and my encampment to fall into the hands of the enemy. Yes, I will save my life, but at what cost? I think I would be ruined. In the military your wife is entitled to half of your military retirement as well..


Contact a good divorce lawyer. Maybe (I don't know the laws on your country) if it is established that you are the wronged party, you can keep your military retirement earnings and only pay child support and/or alimony for a specified time.



> Well, I am determined to feign a retreat (a good military word, "feign"). I will abandon my defenses but without the intent of permanent withdrawal and when she finds the objective empty, she will will be vulnerable, vulnerable enough to accept my conditions I hope.


Hopefully it will work. A genuine reconciliation, with the willingness of both parties to become a better spouse, is always better than even the best divorce settlement.



> Just out of curiosity, is there any chance that the divorce court would give me the custody of my 10 year old, who really does need a father figure in his life? I am not even hoping for the custody of my toddlers, but is there a way to get the 10 year old to stay with me?


Again, I don't understand the laws in your country. In my country, each child whom are old enough would be asked "do you want to life with your father or your mother?", and the court decide accordingly.



> Anyway, tonight I will try to talk to her about scheduling another visit with the endocrinologist and actually talk to him about her low libido.


In all fairness, please do. Maybe it's her low libido. Everything is possible.

The way I see it, it's more like she's being selfish and heartless, and she took advantage of your love and soft-hearted personality (sorry I called you a soft-hearted person), which means she takes all the advantages of being married with you, without having to reciprocrate by being a good wife.

Also, even if she is a good mother, that doesn't automatically make her a good wife. A woman could be a good loving mother for her kids but an abusive wife for her husband. Withholding sex from spouse is a form of emotional abuse too. It's a terrible abuse, and I feel for all these poor women and men (including you) in TAM whom are victims of this emotional abuse.


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## LadybugGirl (Mar 19, 2013)

Rakkasan said:


> It bothered me that she always wanted to spend all of her time with me. I am glad that she did something on her own.


Hi Rakkasan, your quote struck a nerve with me. I hope its not out of context...but My husband hates it when I want to spend my time with him. Why? I'm not saying 24/7. A little insight I would appreciate 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

LadybugGirl said:


> Hi Rakkasan, your quote struck a nerve with me. I hope its not out of context...but My husband hates it when I want to spend my time with him. Why? I'm not saying 24/7. A little insight I would appreciate
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't get me wrong, I like spending time with my wife. But I don't like to be guilt tripped when I come back from hunting a half an hour late, especially that I only hunt in the early mornings, or when I make an effort to go to the gym. Again, I only go to the gym in the mornings just so that doesn't interfere with my family time.

I only go out with the guys like once or twice a year, and I don't do it more often because I would rather be with my wife, but that is my personal choice, not because she doesn't let me. But when I do eventually go out, there is the guilt trip again. Not every time though.

That is why I am happy that she went out with her girlfriends. That means there will be no guilt trip when I go out with my buddies in June 

How is it in your relationship?


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## LadybugGirl (Mar 19, 2013)

Rakkasan said:


> Don't get me wrong, I like spending time with my wife. But I don't like to be guilt tripped when I come back from hunting a half an hour late, especially that I only hunt in the early mornings, or when I make an effort to go to the gym. Again, I only go to the gym in the mornings just so that doesn't interfere with my family time.
> 
> I only go out with the guys like once or twice a year, and I don't do it more often because I would rather be with my wife, but that is my personal choice, not because she doesn't let me. But when I do eventually go out, there is the guilt trip again. Not every time though.
> 
> ...


My husband works alot, self employed. For 15 out of 16 years of marriage I have taken vacations alone (to visit my family overseas, never a girls only resort-type trip) or with our daughter, even as a baby. Then he complained about me not being around. I used to practically beg. One year i surprised him with a trip to Mexico. He cancelled and worked. When he did manage to fit in a week at our cottage together he either invites all his single buddies or sleeps the whole week. It feels like punishment. He thinks as long as we are at the same place, we are spending time together. Now I don't care. I go with our daughter or my inlaws. His loss. Our daughter is beginning to realize. (I say nothing negative.)
I appreciate his working hard to provide for us, but priorities...the almighty dollar is not my motivator. He's never been a family guy. If I had known back then what I know now...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

LadybugGirl said:


> My husband works alot, self employed. For 15 out of 16 years of marriage I have taken vacations alone (to visit my family overseas, never a girls only resort-type trip) or with our daughter, even as a baby. Then he complained about me not being around. I used to practically beg. One year i surprised him with a trip to Mexico. He cancelled and worked. When he did manage to fit in a week at our cottage together he either invites all his single buddies or sleeps the whole week. It feels like punishment. He thinks as long as we are at the same place, we are spending time together. Now I don't care. I go with our daughter or my inlaws. His loss. Our daughter is beginning to realize. (I say nothing negative.)
> I appreciate his working hard to provide for us, but priorities...the almighty dollar is not my motivator. He's never been a family guy. If I had known back then what I know now...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry, but that is just wrong. I simply cannot comprehend spending vacations separately. But then again when you are in the military, and when you leave home for a year at the time you tend to appreciate more simple things like family vacations or sleeping together.

These forums tend to show you that even though your situation feels like it is the end of the world, there are always people who are unhappier than you.

Well, my experience in your situation was a bit similar. I am very social person, and there were some times that I considered inviting my single buddies to what my wife had planned as our family time. But she knew how to stomp her foot before I did such a foolishness. Sure I held it against her for a bit. But I learned to appreciate our family time


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

So after 8 days of sleeping separately I finally decide to man up and talk to her about saving our marriage. I sit down with her at night and tell her that we need to see a marriage counselor. She says she has no intention. I insist, she says that if I feel I need an MC I can go on my own. I tell her that she should do it for me if she doesn't want to do it for herself. "No" - I hear.

At this point I considered giving her an ultimatum, something I've read on this forum, telling her either MC or a divorce lawyer. But I couldn't bring myself to do it. So instead I ask her "why?" She says that she can't open herself up to an MC again and cry and then be hurt by my behavior again...

So, having read the "Sex Starved Marriage" I ask her what are her needs from me to feel fulfilled in the marriage. She said that I never listened, that I never cared. Take her thyroid for example. I didn't ask how her visit to de doctor went. And you know what? I realized I didn't. But I never cared about my own health or life, it is so hard to care about other person's life. When some AlQaida fvckers were shooting at me, I was the first one to assault their position. When I had skin cancer it was my wife that worried, not me! But you know what? The thyroid was important to my wife and I didn't show that it was important to me too the way I should.

So I promised the change. And I asked my wife to promise that she will kiss and hug me each day never mind that she has the touch sensory overload from the toddlers always touching her. She agreed. We slept together and it felt great.

That is until the morning, when I waked up 3 hours before my alarm clock, with the renewed feeling of resentment...


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Well you both agreeing to work on things is good. You backing down and letting her get her own way about the counselor not so good. You are going to have to take the lead in this area...she is going to feel uncomfortable about going to a MC, she will have acknowledge she has issues and deal with them. That is going to be real uncomfortable.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

mineforever said:


> Well you both agreeing to work on things is good. *You backing down and letting her get her own way about the counselor not so good*. You are going to have to take the lead in this area...she is going to feel uncomfortable about going to a MC, she will have acknowledge she has issues and deal with them. That is going to be real uncomfortable.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:

But Mr. Rakka, don't lose hope. Many major battles weren't decided by the first engagements.


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## LadybugGirl (Mar 19, 2013)

john_lord_b3 said:


> :iagree:
> 
> But Mr. Rakka, don't lose hope. Many major battles weren't decided by the first engagements.


Well said john_lord. I agree. Sometimes you need to approach things differently since the same things aren't working. Huge fight with H last night both of us said awful things and insults. I felt horrible. Being on painkillers (i fell and broke my shoulder and rib) and not sleeping, our dog died, I feel a total mess. I'm always the one to approach him to apologize. Don't go to bed mad. He will silent treatment or tell me to go away. I said 1/2 of what I normally would. Instead I sent him a txt MSG since the cell is like a growth on him. This morning he called me from work and we talked about our stress. He asked how I was b/c he knows i hate how i feel on the meds and that he is trying to understand what I am going through. After our conversation I burst into tears! It's all I ever wanted to hear from him "I understand you. I am here for you. I love you." 
there is hope! Don't give up. 😂
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

I backed down because I realized that she has never been the one to open up fully. If I can take a lead without actually going to counselor, I am all for it. I learned a lot from the books I am reading now, and I am eager to apply the newly acquired knowledge about relationships.

So the next day I have to work late. I go home, we go to bed, and instead me doing my usual everyday routine of masturbation and porn, just so (At least I thought that) I can function the next day, I decide to wait for her to get out of the shower and request a HJ. I think it was like second day this year that I didn't masturbate. I hate masturbating. Makes me fill up with resentment. I hate looking at porn. I would rather look at my wife. But I rarely get to see her naked any more.

Well, I was really tired and fell asleep before she got out of the shower. The next day something weird happened. About noon, at work, and to my surprise, I realized that the usual everyday feeling of resentment is not there. Not a single negative thought about my marriage has entered my mind. My coworkers started to ask what I was so happy about. And it wasn't even the fact that I got a HJ from my wife, because I didn't. It was merely the thought of getting a HJ from my wife as the last thing that I was thinking before (unintentionally) falling asleep.


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

LadybugGirl said:


> Well said john_lord. I agree. Sometimes you need to approach things differently since the same things aren't working. Huge fight with H last night both of us said awful things and insults. I felt horrible. Being on painkillers (i fell and broke my shoulder and rib) and not sleeping, our dog died, I feel a total mess. I'm always the one to approach him to apologize. Don't go to bed mad. He will silent treatment or tell me to go away. I said 1/2 of what I normally would. Instead I sent him a txt MSG since the cell is like a growth on him. *This morning he called me from work and we talked about our stress. He asked how I was b/c he knows i hate how i feel on the meds and that he is trying to understand what I am going through*. After our conversation I burst into tears! It's all I ever wanted to hear from him "I understand you. I am here for you. I love you."
> there is hope! Don't give up. 😂
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I hope everything will work out for you, Mrs. Bug! :smthumbup:


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Rakkasan said:


> I backed down because I realized that she has never been the one to open up fully. If I can take a lead without actually going to counselor, I am all for it. I learned a lot from the books I am reading now, and I am eager to apply the newly acquired knowledge about relationships.
> 
> So the next day I have to work late. I go home, we go to bed, and instead me doing my usual everyday routine of masturbation and porn, just so (At least I thought that) I can function the next day, I decide to wait for her to get out of the shower and request a HJ. I think it was like second day this year that I didn't masturbate. I hate masturbating. Makes me fill up with resentment. I hate looking at porn. I would rather look at my wife. But I rarely get to see her naked any more.
> 
> Well, I was really tired and fell asleep before she got out of the shower. The next day something weird happened. About noon, at work, and to my surprise, I realized that the usual everyday feeling of resentment is not there. Not a single negative thought about my marriage has entered my mind. My coworkers started to ask what I was so happy about. And it wasn't even the fact that I got a HJ from my wife, because I didn't. It was merely the thought of getting a HJ from my wife as the last thing that I was thinking before (unintentionally) falling asleep.


Mr. Rakka.

Well, it is incredibly great if you could get into a good mood and be happy in your life just by *imagining* you getting sexual satisfaction from your wife, without having to deal with rejections and being shamed and tortured for asking.

So, would you rather enhance your imagination-producing skills and be content with just imagination? This way you don't have to actually ask your wife for sex, if just imagination will do for you.

Or, if you stay focused, maybe you won't settle for just imagination, and will continue to make efforts to finally get what's rightfully yours.

In military terms, governments often had to make a decision whether to actually press for military operations to recover an occupied area, or be content with formal diplomatic protests with no real action, in order to maintain the status quo.

It's up to you, Mr. Rakka. I wish you good luck either way.


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

john_lord_b3 said:


> Mr. Rakka.
> 
> Well, it is incredibly great if you could get into a good mood and be happy in your life just by *imagining* you getting sexual satisfaction from your wife, without having to deal with rejections and being shamed and tortured for asking.
> 
> ...


Well, it really did feel great to forget about the resentment for a day. The next day i was able to have a heart to heart conversation with my wife, without the accusations, without resentment. It wasn't easy, because it is so much easier for me to open up on TAM than to my wife, but I pulled it off, somehow.I let her know how I feel. She let me know how she feels too. 

She pointed out how I was not there when she needed me the most, when I didn't ask her how the mammogram went when she suspected she had cancer (I assumed she would tell me if something was wrong); she pointed out how she felt when other wives went with their husbands to see the ultrasound images of their unborn babies, and she went by herself for our third child (I was a commander then and my work was really important for me, apparently more important than my marriage) or how she had to travel to the old country by herself with a baby, because I wouldn't take leave to go with her. I got a sense that she resented me for not showing how important she was to me by spending time with her.

After reading "5 love languages" it became apparent that her love language is "spending quality time together". I think she started to resent me because I didn't spend enough quality time with her. I mean we would be together but not "fully" together. That could be the reason, compounded by her thyroid problem, why she withdrew from me sexually. Because she was not being sexual with me, I started withdrawing from her physically, limiting her the scarce free time that I have, because of my resentment. Classical catch 22 situation.

After the heart to heart (it got to be REALLLY late) I asked for a HJ and she was more than happy to take care of me.

I was a new person at work the next day. I would even find joy in tedious PowerPoint production process. I make sure that every hour we spend together counts. Our relationship dynamics started to change (I think).

Today, when I returned from my hunting I came back to a wife who was not nagging, but a wife who waited for me with a smile. After I made breakfast we cuddled on the front of TV, while sipping coffee together, like dating teenagers not a married couple with three kids.

Anyway, we are going for a date tonight. 5 hours in a Korean Bathhouse, I don't know what can get more sensual than this. Naked bodies in hot baths, hydro massage and other stuff, lightly clothed when together. If that doesn't get her ready for a night of pleasure, I don't know what will.

I suspect that tonight my dearest wife will fulfill my wildest sexual expectations.


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

Well, no the day did not end with the long anticipated sexual encounter. We got late and she was tired, as always. I heard "tomorrow" which was a bit of a let down. I did ask for a HJ instead of shutting off this time though. I hope that the "tomorrow" do comes eventually.


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Mr. Rakka,

I am happy to hear about your progress, hope it will come up to a mutually agreeable solution. It's always good to be able to communicate problems, providing that both sides are doing the talking and listening, and sincerely seek for a solution which are acceptable to all.

But still, tread carefully,

Sometimes the enemy pretend to loosen up their defenses a bit, to give the illusion that they're ready for negotiation...and then proceed to string you along like a kite with those illusion... with the predictable results: no real negotiation, but they still attack your positions with impunity, and/or denying you access to "villages" which you think are rightfully within your state's boundaries.


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

Tomorrow never came. She said how she worries about her health (true) how she had her period for nearly a month (true) and she just can't do it. I felt guilty for even trying to have sex with my wife. Having said that she was glad to offer me a HJ.

I guess I should just be patient with her. I will. The only question is how patient should I be? Weeks, months of years?

Anyway, today she started taking birth control. Not to protect her from pregnancy (I had vasectomy) but to regulate her period. Just wondering, I heard that Birth Control has a negative effect on women's drive. Is that always true? I don't know how much more negative can it get...


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Mr. Rakka,

Take your wife to the doctor. Don't let her play doctor on herself. Who knows what kind of side effects she could get? This is hormones we're talking about. Artificial chemicals always has side effects.


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## Tigger (Dec 5, 2007)

I read through this entire thread and what I gather is you don't seem to be that concerned about her health.

Mostly your concern is about you and your not getting sex.

I don't think you truly understand how sick thyroid problems make you or bleeding for a month. If she has anemia from bleeding so much, that is another physical reason for being exhausted and not wanting sex.

You just seem to think she can take a few pills and bam everything back to normal in a couple days. It doesn't work that way.

You are playing all these childish games moving to another bedroom and with holding affection.

It gets old when a woman realizes that the only time her man wants to be affectionate is because he wants sex and constantly has the expectation of sex no matter how ill or poorly she feels.

Do you really care about her health or feelings at all? Do you ask her about her day or how she is feeling?


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

john_lord_b3 said:


> Mr. Rakka,
> 
> Take your wife to the doctor. Don't let her play doctor on herself. Who knows what kind of side effects she could get? This is hormones we're talking about. Artificial chemicals always has side effects.


It was the doctor who recommended the Birth Control. She will not play a doctor on herself. I wouldn't let her either.


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

Tigger said:


> I read through this entire thread and what I gather is you don't seem to be that concerned about her health.
> 
> Mostly your concern is about you and your not getting sex.
> 
> ...


Dear Tigger

You are right. I do sound like a selfish ba$tard, don't I? Yeah, all I ever do on this forum is bit¢h about not getting laid, but where else can I do it? It is a problem for me and I can't help the fact it is a problem. When I talk about it, it helps.

Well, I do know that she has a serious health problem, and I was patient with her for the past two years. We had sex 8 times in those two years. I did not pressure her, I rarely initiated and as a result we had sex once a quarter. The sex consisted mostly of me pleasuring her orally for an hour and she reciprocating with a quick HJ or half hearted attempt at a BJ. I did not complain, I was happy that we were together at least.

Yes, this year I started to withhold my affection for 8 days. I moved to another bedroom because I could no longer deal with the issue. It did not come easy. But you know what? She stopped kissing me in 2006, she stopped hugging me in 2007. I was trying to be patient, and it wasn't easy, because I love to kiss, and love to hug my wife.

It is hard for me to show concern for health, and this is definitely something I need to work on. I put on an army uniform when I was 17. I am 37 now. For the past 20 years I've been conditioned not to whine about being tired, being sick, I've been conditioned to suck it up and drive on with the mission. I did not care when I had skin cancer, it was my wife who could not sleep because she was scared for me. I am sorry. She would get so upset that I did not care. I did not care when every patrol I went on in Afghanistan could end up with a deadly ambush or a bomb. She cared, she was afraid but I could not bring myself to care about such trivialities.

I realize that this is a handicap. This forum helped me realize that this an area where I have to improve.

Now having said all that, I do care about my wife condition. It is hard for me to show through words, but I show it through deeds. I understand that her thyroid makes her tired all the time, so I do most things around the house. I work and I do laundry. I fold laundry. I do the dishes. And trust me, there is a lot of both, since we have three boys. I clean our and the boys bedrooms. I clean the bathrooms. And I let her sleep in. I get 5-6 hours of sleep during the week because I work. I get 5-6 hours of sleep on weekend because I wake up early so she can sleep in. Because I care about her. Because I understand that she is tired and sleepy all the time. I am tired though. I very rarely get to sleep in. I don't get to recharge my batteries.

And the fact that I think about sex? Well I do. We had sex 9 times since our youngest boy (aged 2 years and 4 months). I can't help the fact that I think about sex all the time. I can't deal with the fact that I think about sex all time. But you know what? I think it is only human. I get rationed sex which is not enough to satisfy my emotional needs and because I need more I think about it all the time. I know there is an important medical reason why I don't get sex in my marriage, and because of that I am still married. If I thought that my wife is withholding her affection from me because she doesn't love me, I would be out. I would throw the towel down.

When I was getting my food rationed at the Ranger school, all I thought about was being hungry all the time. I craved food, I thought about food, I desired food. I knew that there was a good reason why they haven't given us enough food, but that did change the fact that I was hungry. We were all hungry. That is why we talked about food all the time. It was all we could think about it. That is why I joined this forum. So I can talk about sex. I am sexually starved. I know there is a good reason why I don't have sex, but that does not make me any less sexually starved.


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Hang in there Rakkasan, keep working with her to get her hormones and levels right. I just went through a real horrible couple of weeks with my thyroid. Surprise surprise a bladder infection can through your levels off severly...by the time the figured out what was going on my white blood cells were at a thyroid storm level and my hair was coming out big time...I was so hyper my husband said I was going wear it out...:-/ Living with thyroid issues is a battle my husband and I will have to live with for the rest of our lives. I guess what I am saying is this is a disease...it has no cure it can only be treated..ie treat the symptoms. She has to want to get better, all you can do is keep encouraging her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Rakkasan said:


> It was the doctor who recommended the Birth Control. She will not play a doctor on herself. I wouldn't let her either.


Glad to hear that. Please do keep yourself informed about what kind of treatment she is getting, what are the possible side effects and everything else pertaining to the treatment. Accompany your wife to doctor check-ups whenever possible, and when she's going to the apothecary to get her prescriptions. The more information you know about her conditions, the better. Plus, it will show your wife that you do care about her conditions.


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

john_lord_b3 said:


> Accompany your wife to doctor check-ups whenever possible, and when she's going to the apothecary to get her prescriptions. The more information you know about her conditions, the better. Plus, it will show your wife that you do care about her conditions.


And this forum made me realize where I was lacking as a husband. This is exactly what I need to do.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

R - Tigger is wrong. Almost everything said about you could also be said about your wife. Does your wife really care about YOUR feelings at all? Your marriage has been one sided for far too long.


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## Tigger (Dec 5, 2007)

Have you just directly asked her why she doesn't want to have sex more than a few times a year?

Have you told her that you really need sex more than a few times a year and asked her to help you out and ask her what you should do about your needs?


Have you said these things directly and what were her answers?


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

Tigger said:


> Have you just directly asked her why she doesn't want to have sex more than a few times a year?
> 
> Have you told her that you really need sex more than a few times a year and asked her to help you out and ask her what you should do about your needs?
> 
> ...


Well, we had plenty of talk like this before sie realized she had a thyroid problem. She would come up with a problem (we don't talk, we don't spend enough time together, we don't do enough things together), then I would put all my efforts to fix the problem, and it wouldn't work, because her real problem was the thyroid. Once she started taking her medication things started improving, slowly. Then we had to go to Europe, and she changed her medication to generic European. She got more tired, she was loosing hair. I knew that she is not well so I did not pressure her, I gave her the physical distance that she needed. When we returned for Europe she found out she needs stronger hormone pills for her thyroid. She started taking them in September. We had sex three times since them. What I found out on this forum is that sometimes endocrinologists treat thyroid to amounts shown on the tests, not to the symptoms. I don't think she knew that, I didn't know that. I hope that the next visit she will say something to her doctor.

Having said all that, this forum has helped me also realize that I wasn't speaking the same "Love language" with her. I wasn't showing her my affection sufficiently in the way she wanted, by spending quality time together. I think that compounded the problem, it lowered her her already low sex drive. Well, I am trying to fix that.

I found that out after we had a serious heart to heart, but I had to move out for a week in order to have that heart to heart conversation.


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> R - Tigger is wrong. Almost everything said about you could also be said about your wife. Does your wife really care about YOUR feelings at all? Your marriage has been one sided for far too long.


:smthumbup::iagree: it takes two to do the tango..or to mess up a marriage... Yes, Mr. Rakka could've handled things differently. But his wife's behavior was her own choice.


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

OK, so I feel like I have really been putting an effort into making my marriage work. I made sure that each day I sit with her on the couch at night, after the kids went to sleep, to sip hot tea, to be close to her and to talk. I have been making an effort to be more interested in her life. I made an effort to spend quality time with her. Well, as much as I could, since last week I worked evening shifts.

So, on Tuesday I work evening, I get home at 11pm, and the next day I up at 5am to start morning shift. I know that I need to be a better husband so I decide to have a hot tea with her, before going to bed, around midnight. She loves to have teas with me on the couch, and I take pleasure in doing things that she loves. I ask how her day was, and she starts to tell me.

It was stupid how a pleasant conversation turned into a screaming match. I know that she was tired, I was even more tired, but I hate that she screams at me. It was about something stupid. She told me how hard it was for her to drop our eldest at the soccer practice in the morning, she had to get the two toddlers out of their seats, in order to sign the eldest in.

Now, what I should have done (I thought about it AFTER it was too late) I should have been a sympathetic h husband, and I should have nod my head and show appreciation to how hard it was for her. But being a pragmatic male I am I immediately started to look for a solution to the problem. I said, hey honey, there is another parking lot, really close to the soccer field, and tomorrow you could drop our son off without taking the toddlers.

Well, my advice did not go well. She started screaming at me, that if someone reported her we could lose our rights to the children. I tried to explain to her that if you are close to the car the kids can stay in their seats, but she kept screaming. I don’t do well when she screams at me (I have NEVER in my 12 years of marriage yelled at her first, I do respond with raised voice to her screaming at me though), so I stopped the conversation.

Later when she calmed down, I wanted to show her the law of the state concerning leaving children in the car, but she did not look at it.

Now, I know now that she was looking for sympathy from me, not for a solution to a problem, but did she have right to scream at me? I was so upset that I did not get to bed until 330am, only to wake up 1.5 hours later to go to work.

Yet the next night in the evening, even though I was tired I still made a point to spend quality time with her when she got off school late at night.

And here is this morning. I am working evening, so I am home in the morning. She is on her way to the store. She gives me directions: “Could you clean up the house a bit, prepare a package for my grandma” Then she sees dog crap outside. She says “I can’t stand looking at the dog crap, maybe someone in the house would finally pick it up?” So I reply that we need to wait for our son, because picking up dog crap falls under his chores.

Then she started screaming that I need to pick up the dog crap. So I raise my voice as well, and tell her (for the first time in my marriage) that I won’t do that if she will keep screaming, but I will do it if she asks me nicely. She keeps screaming that she is through with asking me nicely, because it is my duty to pick up dog crap. 

She comes back from the shopping to a house that is nearly spotless. On the side note, I almost never come from work to a nearly spotless house. She murmurs something that I should have cleaned the bathrooms instead of kitchen and living room, and then she sees the dog crap. She starts screaming that I will pick up the crap. I respond (in a raised voice) that I will if she asks me nicely. She screams that she doesn’t have to ask me nicely, she calls me an idiot and crazy. Then she threatens me that she will get rid of the dogs. And other threats, that I can’t even remember now.

Well, when I started this thread I had a goal to grow a pair of balls. I mean, I can’t blame my wife for not having sex with me, if I don’t have balls, right? I think my balls have finally started to grow. They are small, and fragile at this point, but nevertheless they are there. I say No More Mr. Nice Rakkasan!

So amid all that screaming I pick up my bicycle and I leave for work. Without picking up the dog crap. I am ready to divorce if I have to, although it would be so stupid to divorce over who needs to pick up the dog crap.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

My god. I don't even know where to start.


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> My god. I don't even know where to start.


It is OK, WorkingOnMe. You helped me enough. I know where I need to start. I need to start on growing my balls back. Then I need to fulfill her needs by spending more quality time with her. Then I need to get her to see her endocrinologist and get her to tell him to treat her symptoms. Now that is going to be a hard part. She does not see that there is a problem (ie lack of sex), so she does not see a need to go to see a doctor.


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## Tigger (Dec 5, 2007)

Screaming is definitely wrong. She shouldn't be screaming at you.

Maybe it would be good to sit done and discuss household duties in detail and figure out who is going to do what. 

Is she working? I saw you mentioned her going to school. What are your schedules like?

Is it possible for you to drop the kids a couple days a week?


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

Household duties are not a problem. Dropping kids off are not a problem. I do drop them off when my work schedule allows me to.

What the problem WAS is her expressing her anger at me in a raised voice. Please note that I wrote "was". I do solemnly swear that I won't allow her to do that to me ever again.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Rakkasan said:


> It is OK, WorkingOnMe. You helped me enough. I know where I need to start. I need to start on growing my balls back. Then I need to fulfill her needs by spending more quality time with her. Then I need to get her to see her endocrinologist and get her to tell him to treat her symptoms. Now that is going to be a hard part. She does not see that there is a problem (ie lack of sex), so she does not see a need to go to see a doctor.


Here's where you start my friend. When she wants to vent, let her vent. You already know you're not supposed to fix whatever issue she's whining about. And when she blows up at you, just walk away. Don't walk away and get proof to prove your point lol that will just piss her off (as you found out). 

Yes, getting your balls back is good. But you also need to learn to pick your battles.


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## Tigger (Dec 5, 2007)

Rakkasan said:


> Household duties are not a problem. Dropping kids off are not a problem. I do drop them off when my work schedule allows me to.
> 
> What the problem WAS is her expressing her anger at me in a raised voice. Please note that I wrote "was". I do solemnly swear that I won't allow her to do that to me ever again.


Her screaming is a separate issue from her complaints with you.
Asking her not to scream at you and leaving the room if she continues is a good solution.

Are you sure the house and kids are not a problem? How do you know?

What does when your schedule allows mean? How many times have you dropped them off this week?

You seemed to ignore her being mad about cleaning up the dog poop and you dropping the kids off.

Instead of trying to solve the problem, try asking her how you can help her better around the house and with the kids and listen to what she says.


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

Tigger said:


> Her screaming is a separate issue from her complaints with you. Asking her not to scream at you and leaving the room if she continues is a good solution.


Yup! I don't know why it took me so long to figure it out.



Tigger said:


> Are you sure the house and kids are not a problem? How do you know?


Of course they are a problem. They are a handful. They go to childcare three times a week, and stay with her two times a work week. They leave her exhausted those two times. But there is only so much I can do to help her. I also have to work because someone has to feed this family of five. When I am not at work I take care of the kids. She rarely has to change the diapers or bathe them or put them to sleep when I am around. There isn't really anything for her to do around the kids when I am around.



Tigger said:


> What does when your schedule allows mean? How many times have you dropped them off this week?


Well, they go to childcare three times a week. Those times are pretty stressing for her. She has to wake them up, feed them, dress them, brush their teeth, put them in the car and drop them off at the childcare. I am usually already at work then, but when I am not i get the kids ready for her. I can't drop them off because she does it on the way too school, and she has the car. What I do instead is drop her off at school once a week. I drop her off, then I pick up the eldest, I feed all three, then I drive to pick her up. I don't mind doing her, but working 8 hours and commuting 4 is a lot. I haven't uttered a word of complain ever. Kids are really not a problem. I do realize what the problem was. The problem was me not taking a cue to show her emphatic instead trying to solve the problem. That was the fault at my part. Which is NOT the reason to scream. 



Tigger said:


> You seemed to ignore her being mad about cleaning up the dog poop and you dropping the kids off.


No, what it was is me not snapping to do whatever she says like I always do. I had a different idea of who should clean up the poop. The idea differed from hers and she got upset. Dogs pooped because our eldest was too lazy to walk them long enough, so I figured that cleaning the poop will serve as a lesson to him. Normally she agrees with me in that subject, but this time our eldest was not there. If she told me she wanted the poop cleaned ASAP I would do it, because I never said no to her. But she started screaming instead. And then I did the unthinkable. I said no to her. Which escalated the screaming. I felt good on the inside though. It felt good to say no.



Tigger said:


> Instead of trying to solve the problem, try asking her how you can help her better around the house and with the kids and listen to what she says.


I honestly cannot do any more around the house. It is physically impossible. I do need to learn better to listen what she says though, you are right about that.


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

Just to give you guys an update, that night I drafted an email to her. Since she is unable to listen what I have to say, I figured maybe can read what i gave to say to her. The email was not confrontational, it just explained how I feel when she screams at me. It also said that the rules had changed, and that she will never scream at me again.

She read the letter. She apologized sincerely for her behavior. She blamed on her short temper. Then she kissed me and laid her head on my shoulder. Man, it felt right to start wearing pants again.

Of course she lost it again the next day. She asked me to help her plant the flowers, and I was happy to do what she asked me. I did it the best I could. Unfortunately my best was not good enough. So she started to scream. I am pretty proud if myself how calmly I responded that I don't want her to scream at me.


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

We had a great Saturday together. We went for a long 13 miles bike ride along picturesque Potomac River, we had a nice lunch in a small local diner, and we had a bottle of wine in the evening, as we watched a funny comedy in our native language.

Then, as I suspected, I got rejected. But this time it was different. I actually did something I promised myself never to do again. I asked "why?". I braced myself for the usual bull crap answer like we don't talk, we don't spend enough time together, blah, blah, blah. But instead she said it is because of her (thyroid) illness. I couldn't believe my ears. I asked her if she will tell that the doctor and she said yes. I made her promise she will do that and she promised.

Maybe there is a hope for me? I love my wife and I am really torn. I know she doesn't show me the affection because of her thyroid. I should be patient, and I think I do a decent job for the most part. But at the same time I crave the affection.

I think that I would leave my marriage by now if my wife was perfectly healthy and would be denying me the affection I crave. But I would be the worst human on earth if I left my wife because her health problem prevents her from being intimate. I am so happy that she agreed to talk to the doctor. That gives me hope.


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## whynotrightnow12 (Mar 30, 2013)

Hi, This has been very interesting to read, although I haven't read all posts yet. I am on the opposite side of the low thyroid problem. I am the military wife staying home with the kid, European with a quick temper, discovered two years ago that I have low thyroid. Since I started taking meds for it, my life has been turned upside down, although not as I expected. Everything you describe here, I experienced. Good luck to you.


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Rakkasan I understsnd her thyroid does lower her sex drive but it isn't an excuse for neglecting her spouses needs. Thytoid issues don't prevent or lesson her organisms or prevent her from getting turned on. .. hypothyroidism just means she takes a little more to get in the mood initially. She should not be using her thyroid as an excuse...she needs to the Dr now and get her meds reviewed. 

They just reduced my dosage due to the thyroid storm, and am suffering from low hormones right now. It doesn't mean I have a right to turn the hubster down...he just sees it as a challenge to get me revved up. He woke me up at 2am this morning taking my nightie off. He just grinned and said "thought you seemed restless, just wanted you to be comfotable". He is on a roll right now we have made love every day for 10 days....pretty good for an old couple in there 50's. Don't give up ...keep pushing her to get her meds level right...and no more thyroid as an excuse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Stuckinrut (Feb 24, 2013)

Rakkasan I hate to hijack your thread but I have loved reading your post as I have a very similiar story without the yelling. I thought I had my wifes issues nailed down to thyroid problems so we had it tested and it came back at 4.0 doctor said its good no problem. Is there different type of tests for this?

When I googled thyroid problem symptoms 95% of them match her perfectly! She even has the low B12.

I wish you all the luck getting this figured out.


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Stuckinrut -a 4.0 is on the very low side just within the normal range. Most endocrinologists try to keep you around a 2.5. Normal can be anywhere from .5 to 4 (used to be up to a 5 but most doctors are pulling in the number to a 4). The best thing you can do is get her referred to an endocrinologist, they usually do a T3 and a T4 test which gives them a better idea of what is going on. Unfortunately doctors are very hesitant to treat thyroid issues because they are trial and error. My ideal number is .05 -1 which most would consider hyperyhyroidism but it is my normal. My symptoms are all gone and my weight is dropping. You have to find a doctor who will treat the sypmtoms not just try to get you to a number. Good luck!

PS...it is not a one time your done thing.....hyperthyroidism and hypothroidism are a disease that has to be closely monitored and your levels adjusted frquently. :-( It messes with every part of your life, if she has it ... it will be a battle she will have to fight the rest of her life. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

mineforever said:


> Rakkasan I understsnd *her thyroid does lower her sex drive but it isn't an excuse for neglecting her spouses needs*. Thytoid issues don't prevent or lesson her organisms or prevent her from getting turned on. .. hypothyroidism just means she takes a little more to get in the mood initially. *She should not be using her thyroid as an excuse...*she needs to the Dr now and get her meds reviewed.
> 
> They just reduced my dosage due to the thyroid storm, and am suffering from low hormones right now. It doesn't mean I have a right to turn the hubster down...he just sees it as a challenge to get me revved up. He woke me up at 2am this morning taking my nightie off. He just grinned and said "thought you seemed restless, just wanted you to be comfotable". He is on a roll right now we have made love every day for 10 days....pretty good for an old couple in there 50's. *Don't give up ...keep pushing her to get her meds level right...and no more thyroid as an excuse.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::smthumbup:

Mr. Rakka,

Of all advices you are receiving in this forum (mine included), perhaps THIS ONE is the best you can get, and the one you must follow. You don't have to follow my advice or any other person's advice in this thread, especially the ones which implies that you are the only wrong party in your marriage (you're _not_, it takes two to cause a sexless marriage). 

But THIS PARTICULAR THING ABOVE especially the ones I bolded, should ALWAYS be kept on your head. It's just like your HTHC/CQC training. You know you won't need them if you have big guns with you all the times, but you really need to keep them in your head and muscle memory all the times!

Good luck!


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

john_lord_b3 said:


> But THIS PARTICULAR THING ABOVE especially the ones I bolded, should ALWAYS be kept on your head. It's just like your HTHC/CQC training. You know you won't need them if you have big guns with you all the times, but you really need to keep them in your head and muscle memory all the times!
> 
> Good luck!


The big guns that you mention is the Divorce, right? I keep it in my mind, I think about it every day. I think how nice would to be free again, and be with the woman that actually desires you.

I am doing everything to support her. I am trying to be understanding, not be needy. But I can't go on like this. It is not even about her not having having sex with me right now. It is about not seeing a perspective for improvement. 

Anyway, I texted her the number to make an appointment to the doctor. I hope she makes one today, like she promised she would.


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

mineforever said:


> Stuckinrut -a 4.0 is on the very low side just within the normal range. Most endocrinologists try to keep you around a 2.5. Normal can be anywhere from .5 to 4 (used to be up to a 5 but most doctors are pulling in the number to a 4). The best thing you can do is get her referred to an endocrinologist, they usually do a T3 and a T4 test which gives them a better idea of what is going on. Unfortunately doctors are very hesitant to treat thyroid issues because they are trial and error. My ideal number is .05 -1 which most would consider hyperyhyroidism but it is my normal. My symptoms are all gone and my weight is dropping. You have to find a doctor who will treat the sypmtoms not just try to get you to a number. Good luck!
> 
> PS...it is not a one time your done thing.....hyperthyroidism and hypothroidism are a disease that has to be closely monitored and your levels adjusted frquently. :-( It messes with every part of your life, if she has it ... it will be a battle she will have to fight the rest of her life.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks for the advice. I might even text her your example o what is normal, an what doctors consider normal. I need to ask her what are her last results.


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Rakkasan - one thing that really helped my big guy get his mind around how I felt was when he started to have ED and low testosterone problems...they pretty much make you feel the same as hypothyroidism. I had the same answer for him as he had for me ...hi ho hi ho it's off to the doctor you go! ;-) Now when ever one of us starts to get lower drive the other one just gives them a nudge.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## whynotrightnow12 (Mar 30, 2013)

Rakkasan, Please get help for you and your wife as soon as possible. Don't end up like me and my husband. We never got the help of a therapist and now I am just waiting for our kid to turn 18 before divorce. I am not in love with my husband anymore and we have sex about once a month but there is no passion, no desire, no cuddling. And yes, I have a VERY HIGH libido. Please keep us posted on your progress.


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Check out Is Your Hypothyroidism UNDERtreated?

It explains it better than I can.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

mineforever said:


> Check out Is Your Hypothyroidism UNDERtreated?
> 
> It explains it better than I can.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I sent her that article already. I don't think she read it. She said something about too much of the hormony is bad for your heart and that was it. I will reengage and post the update. Thanksgiving fir the link.


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Rakkasan..how are thing going? Did she talk to the doctor?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 01coltcolt (Apr 2, 2013)

I haven’t figured out why I just read your whole thread and no one has ask you when you started letting her use disrespect, misplaced guilt, to manipulate you?

Brother,
I feel your pain on some levels and am dealing with a similar but not so extreme situation. I have been on 13 Deployments in 20yrs and 6 mth career. My wife suffers from the same disease. I know to you it seems normal that she kicks you, to get a positive response. But it just is not right and very destructive.
You do realize that you are going to go from resentment to rage? When you do it will be bad!

You really need to stand up for yourself. You are getting your [email protected]@ kicked from every end of the perspective and Justifying it in your head. I could be wrong but what I just read tells me this about your wife:

1. She has a really low self-esteem. 
2. She uses you as a doormat, to control you.
3. She reverses blame for her actions, neg feelings, out bursts, lack of any sense of your feelings, a sense of your needs and is good at it. Because you buy in 100%. This helps her control you and justify her BS in her own mind!
4. Her jealously is a direct reflection of #1
5. She threats to leave because that’s all she’s got on you. You love her. (I don’t believe she is capable, too co-dependent)

Now you:
1. Do you find yourself apologizing for everything, even when you did nothing wrong? If you do this enables her further to control you by treating you like crap.
2. Who taught you to be passive aggressive? Did you grow up in a house hold that was similar? Was your father similar to you? You need to be more assertive.
3. You need to understand that you totally have the upper hand here. She is so co-dependent that if you left her, she would be married again in 6 months, because she needs someone. That being said: 95% of the men I know would not put up with this treatment for 2 seconds and leave. You don’t think she knows that???

SHE HAS NOT GOT THE UPPER HAND HERE! YOU DO!
She is bringing up crap from 10 years ago???
Stop taking the disrespect. Start out with something like "Seriously why do you talk to me like this?" "I don’t do it to you!" "But I do, do X, Y and Z for you." "Where has that got me, you yelling at me." "Screw this I’m not going to take your Sht anymore!" 

Good luck brother. Most of all respect yourself. Find what your good at and be proud of it. I started Working out harder, Hitting a heavy bag, Racing ATVs, Shooting, Hunting, being a good father and being really good at my job. It helps me focus on being great at something. It turns out I'm great at a lot of stuff. So I don't blame myself. I hope god helps you find the strength to be a man in your marriage. 

BTW above all, don't punch walls in anger, like I did two days ago they don't give much! LOL...............

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-c...d-i-need-save-marriage-well-worth-saving.html


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## just_about_done (Feb 6, 2013)

Ok, I've read this whole thread. It's ringing a lot of bells for me, but I'm not sure I'm getting it. I understand that the thyroid problems are causing weight gain and lack of energy. Is it also causing the bad attitude and low sex drive? My wife also has thyroid problems, treated but the symptoms are not improving. So, I'm wondering if she gets PROPER treatment will the attitude and drive change as well?


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## LadybugGirl (Mar 19, 2013)

just_about_done said:


> Ok, I've read this whole thread. It's ringing a lot of bells for me, but I'm not sure I'm getting it. I understand that the thyroid problems are causing weight gain and lack of energy. Is it also causing the bad attitude and low sex drive? My wife also has thyroid problems, treated but the symptoms are not improving. So, I'm wondering if she gets PROPER treatment will the attitude and drive change as well?


Thyroid does not cause bad attitude. Low self esteem or anger issues cause that. (Speaking from my experience!) 
Too easy to cop that thyroid excuse to cover for laziness to chnge my diet/lifestyle. i can be angry at myself for staying in this sluggish rut from not medicating properly. But they are my issues; that I own. I guess if I didn't own that, I could blame my husband and take it out on him?
Yes, I agree at times I can feel exhausted, forgetful, foggy and I need to preheat the oven before I get cookin'-so to speak! 
Diet and exercise are important to keep from being a slug! 
Taking meds as prescribed, on time is important also. 
What about alternative medicine? I swear by acupuncture and Chinese herbs for my migraines, asthma and eczema. 
Good luck!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Your thyroid is hormone central so it impacts at lot of things in your body. Hypothyroidism and hyperthyroidism cause a plethora of symptoms from low libido, weight gain, depression, low metabolism, digestive issues caused by a slowing metabolism, weakened leg muscles, shallow breathing...those are hypothyroidism... I suffered from them for 8 months until they got my meds regulated after they took my thyroid and thyroid tumer out. Hyperthyroidism can cause weight gain or loss, raising heart, increased sex drive (nympho), hair loss, brittle nails, leg cramps, racing mind ect. ...suffered for these symptoms for 5 years prior to finding the tumor. 

Treating thyroid issues is very difficult...most doctors just treat you to get your levels within a normal (.5 to 4) range. Its a large range and everyone's normal is a little different. You can still have symptoms and be in the normal range. You need to find a good endocrinologist that will work with you to find the right level to control her symptoms. Also some people like me needna T3 and T4 hormone to better control my symptoms.

Thyroid (hypo and hyper) are a disease there is no cure only treatment for the symptoms. It is a battle you fight for the rest of your life...most peoples levels have to be adjusted frequently. 

Having said all that do I thinkbthe thyroid issue could cause her to have LD...definately she needs to talk to the doctor. Attitude well that depends is she depressed? 

As to the comments about eating right and exercise fixing it...not gonna help at all if her meds are messed up. Definately a good idea once her meds are right...but if the meds are wrong she can diet and exercise all she wants ...with no metabolism it will be just about useless. Hang in there and try to get her back to the doctor to look at her levels compared to her symptoms.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

So, what I have been doing, armed with the knowledge gained from reading the "Five Love Languages" I started paying more attention to her "love language" which is spending quality time. Now I always find time to sit on the couch with her and have a cup of tea or coffee, doesn't matter how busy/tired I am. I started noticing a change in her attitude towards me.

In the mean time I started reinforcing my alpha traits. I no longer allow her to yell at me. We got in a huge fight because I refused to to do what she screamed at me to do. She tried the same tactic next week, with less yelling and also no success. She hasn't yelled at me since. And she is also more receptive.

One day she started complaining that she was skinny before she started taking her thyroid meds, and she considers dropping her altogether because the make her feel bad. We had a heart to heart about her thyroid, and I asked her to read the link that MineForever has shared with me, the one about under treatment After reading it she said "it makes sense"!

Not believing my luck I pressed on. I asked her to talk to her doctor to adjust the dose because she still feels tired, can't wake up in the morning etc (I did not mention the lack if libido)

So she said that after the last increase of her dosage (from 88 to 100) she is supposed to go on a check up after three months of taking the new pills. Is that right?

Anyway, we finally had sex. Kind of. She told me to stop giving her oral after about 15 minutes. I don't think she was into it. But she definitely cared about me, which means a lot, especially that she wasn't into it that much. 

I call it progress. I just have to wait another two months for her to talk to her endocrinologist once her new hormone meds take full effect, right?


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

Rakkasan said:


> So, what I have been doing, armed with the knowledge gained from reading the "Five Love Languages" I started paying more attention to her "love language" which is spending quality time. Now I always find time to sit on the couch with her and have a cup of tea or coffee, doesn't matter how busy/tired I am. I started noticing a change in her attitude towards me.
> 
> In the mean time I started reinforcing my alpha traits. I no longer allow her to yell at me. We got in a huge fight because I refused to to do what she screamed at me to do. She tried the same tactic next week, with less yelling and also no success. She hasn't yelled at me since. And she is also more receptive.
> 
> ...


She's "caring" more now that she's having this adjusted?


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Yes three months is standard amount of time between increases when they up the dosage. The increase is about right too. Ususlly on 10 to 20 increments...100 to .112 to .125.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LadybugGirl (Mar 19, 2013)

My comments about diet and exercise by no means replace medication for thyroid. 
The dosage monitoring is very important.
Once on track diet and exercise are important for all round well being.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

mineforever said:


> Yes three months is standard amount of time between increases when they up the dosage. The increase is about right too. Ususlly on 10 to 20 increments...100 to .112 to .125.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks! We will see what the doctor says in June then.


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

DaddyLongShanks said:


> She's "caring" more now that she's having this adjusted?


Honestly, I don't think so. She started caring more because I started spending more quality time with her. But on the other hand I am not sure if she started caring more. We had sex once a quarter for the last 2 years, and this last weekend was either her effort to show that she cares, or the time for our quarterly get together.


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

LadybugGirl said:


> My comments about diet and exercise by no means replace medication for thyroid.
> The dosage monitoring is very important.
> Once on track diet and exercise are important for all round well being.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She is really good about diet. She is a great cook and cooks everything from scratch and healthy. With exercise is a bit tougher, she needs me to exercise, and I am not always home.


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

01coltcolt said:


> I haven’t figured out why I just read your whole thread and no one has ask you when you started letting her use disrespect, misplaced guilt, to manipulate you?
> 
> Brother,
> I feel your pain on some levels and am dealing with a similar but not so extreme situation. I have been on 13 Deployments in 20yrs and 6 mth career. My wife suffers from the same disease. I know to you it seems normal that she kicks you, to get a positive response. But it just is not right and very destructive.
> ...


Sorry for late reply, but it was crazy at the Joint Staff. Anyway, you pretty much voiced how I have been feeling. Right on the target. I have a lot of work to do on my self. Thanks!


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Rakkasan - how are things going? How things are improving!
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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

Mineforever.

It is pretty much a waiting game. She made two half hearted attempts to have sex with me, but half way through my signature oral part she told me to stop. I really appreciate the fact that she tried something for my sake, but on the other hand almost a month passed since the last one and as of few days ago I am feeling more resentful. I am trying not to allow my resentment to affect the quality time I spend with her though, and I feel that our general marriage has improved. Ever since I stood up to her she is no longer yelling at me, which is great, but she is starting to raise her voice again at me when she is upset about something, which I don't like and I don't do towards her.

When we had our last talk she seemed to understood how important kissing is for me, and she promised that she will try to kiss me once a day, but she forgot that promise, which hurts.

I am just waiting in hope that once the three months have passed since she is taking 100mg instead of 88mg Levosomething pills, I will go to the doctor with her, and if she does not say something to the doctor about her low libido I will.

How long does it take for you to feel the effect of increased hormone pills?


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Couple of things...she is on the generic for synthroid. I found I got better results on synthroid than on the generic. Costs me $45 a month because insurance won't pay for non generic. Once my dose got balanced it took only a couple of days to start noticing the effects. .. full effects after a couple of weeks. You will know when it takes effect...my big guy says I get demanding ;-). Keep in mind I am HD normally, once a day would suit me just fine. I don't know what she was prior to her thyroid issues. 

Also be sure and mention any other symptoms she is having...depression(no interest in things she used to enjoy), weight gain or lose, hair loss, mails thinning, exhaustion, fatigue, ect.... Helps show the meds are to low, if you give them all the symptoms. Check web for what the symptoms are. Also did you know there are certain foods she should not be eating... they kill the thyroid hormone...like walnuts, tofo, lima beans... there is a long list you might want to google it too. No use taking meds if your eating foods that destroy the hormone.
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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Not sure if this is helpful or not, but I had a goiter removed a couple years ago and my sex drive has been up, down, up, down... Prior to the operation I was doing OK, although there were a few bad emotional stressors that shut me down a couple times. 

I'm a 54yo male, and coincidentally we had a DDay the first day of my recovery from the operation. So I was never sure if it was the thyroid or the emotional toll... Now you all have me wondering.


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Did your sex drive drop after the surgery? I would guess you were hyperthyroid if you had a goiter? I had a tumor so not sure if a goiter does the same thing. Did they take all or part of your thyroid?
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