# When a Friend Doesn't Want You Anymore



## Maria Canosa Gargano (Jan 30, 2015)

Have you ever had a friend you were close to that just completely cut contact with you?

Let me share my story.

I had a friend in college who I was very close to. I felt that we did a lot of exploring, growing and maturing together. She was converting Islam. She had grown up in a Christian household that was done in a tyrannical, not loving way. I myself had confided in her a lot of my trials that I went through (as I have said numerous times here, the sexual assault)

I will say looking back on myself, I was a lot more hard-hearted than I am now. I was a bit more rough in the way I handled all people (as a way to protect myself). I see that I at times gave her too much advice and criticized how her parents were treating her instead of listening. I also was still going through some emotional ups and downs due to what had occurred to me. So while I would have rated myself as a great friend then, I would rate myself a bit lower now. Not out of malice towards her, but out of a general roughness of my character.

When I left college (I was 2 years ahead of her), we talked and had long, heart-to hearts. Last thing I heard was how excited she was to meet a man she wanted to marry. Then one day everything stopped. I couldn't contact her and after leaving a few messages, of "What's going on", I realized she was not ever going to answer.

Even now when I think about it, a twinge of sadness comes about. But that's the nature of all relationships. They are a choice every day made between two people. For me, this is still something I have to come to accept and I find it hard to do so without wanting to find fault in ME (instead of just my actions) or to find fault in the other person (instead of just accepting that they find this decision to be good for them).

Has this ever happened to you? How did you deal with it? Was the relationship ever repaired or you just came to accept it as it was?


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

Maria Canosa Gargano said:


> Have you ever had a friend you were close to that just completely cut contact with you?
> 
> Let me share my story.
> 
> ...


About 5 years ago I had a friend disappear from my life. Spoke to him one evening and he said he'd meet me at my shop to use some tools the next day, never heard from him again. No response to any of my attempts to contact him but I could see he was still posting on facebook. 

Probably a coincidence that it was less than a month after he got married.


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## Maria Canosa Gargano (Jan 30, 2015)

Nucking Futs said:


> About 5 years ago I had a friend disappear from my life. Spoke to him one evening and he said he'd meet me at my shop to use some tools the next day, never heard from him again. No response to any of my attempts to contact him but I could see he was still posting on facebook.
> 
> Probably a coincidence that it was less than a month after he got married.


I am sure it is a variety of reasons, but I would like to know why?

I know that when I cut off friends and didn't do so anymore, it was after I directly told them, or something dramatic enough.

I had once lived with a friend who threatened to hurt me. I cut her off, and I cut off the other girl I was living with who told me to apologize to the girl for instigating her. In that case, it was reasons for personal safety. Never have I cut off someone completely if there was not a personal safety reason. If I did not want to see them again, I was honest that my intentions were not to see them again.

I don't think anyone owes it to do that actually. It is our lives, our time, and our bodies. But I know being on the other side of it, it's bewildering. Did all that time mean nothing? Or was there something so offensive about me?

Edit: Probably not a coincidence that he had just gotten married.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Any attachments are hard to let go. For me, I am rather use to it. I lived a nomadic childhood, and did not have years to build strong attachments. So letting go of attachments is easy, plus I faced a lot of loss, and death does not affect me as much. Two years, I couldn't cry for my uncle, nor my cousin, who was a victim of a drunk driver.

Early on, I think you may feel some kind of guilt for not being the type of friend you wanted to be. Somehow you want to make it up to her. Was she there for your trauma? Sharing major life events with someone can strongly bond you to that person. They are highly associated with your life at that time.

She made a lifestyle change, and it can radically affect her persona. She probably let you go because you would no longer fit in her world.


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## Maria Canosa Gargano (Jan 30, 2015)

Mr.Fisty said:


> Any attachments are hard to let go. For me, I am rather use to it. I lived a nomadic childhood, and did not have years to build strong attachments. So letting go of attachments is easy, plus I faced a lot of loss, and death does not affect me as much. Two years, I couldn't cry for my uncle, nor my cousin, who was a victim of a drunk driver.
> 
> Early on, I think you may feel some kind of guilt for not being the type of friend you wanted to be. Somehow you want to make it up to her. Was she there for your trauma? Sharing major life events with someone can strongly bond you to that person. They are highly associated with your life at that time.
> 
> She made a lifestyle change, and it can radically affect her persona. She probably let you go because you would no longer fit in her world.


I think you hit the nail on the head and gave me a perspective I hadn't thought of before: How fast and strongly I bonded to her because of what I shared with her. Perhaps if I had not done that, I would not have been so shooken up. Maybe I would have seen incompatibilities or someone who was not to be such an intimate friend because of innate differences. 

I mentioned her conversion, because I do think that played a role in our separation. It surprised me at first, because I was initially one of her biggest supporters so I didn't want to believe it. But I did raise up some doubts when I felt that she was rushing into marriage too soon with a guy who was facing sexual assault charges. She could have felt that was an attack on her religion as she was doing it through the mosque. All speculation and I will never know, but believe it or not, I was truly caught off guard at first.

Any attachments are hard to let go. I think that is what it comes down to. I think for myself, I tend to go inward and look only at how I contributed to an attachments downfall. When in reality, it is not only my contribution, but the other persons, and also time and place. Some attachments fade away not due to any lack of love, but a lack of re-stimulation. I think for my part, I tend to get overly upset about the loosening of any bond as I take it overly personally and see it as a failing on my part to keep it up instead of seeing it as a part of life.

In general, I am also interested in seeing how others have gone through this and what their outcomes are. We talk a lot about romantic and familial relationships on these boards, but I do find friendships just as fascinating.

Mr. Fisty, I see that having the nomadic childhood has helped you to face the reality of relationships much more and has given you a lot of insight. I also just want to say I am so sorry about your uncle and your cousin. I have no words when someone goes that quick. Seeing your introspective nature, I have no worries about you being able to work through it (regardless if you do the socially expected thing and cry) but I am sorry all the same.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

We all have our strengths and weaknesses Maria. Looking back I realize that being a long term best friend was not one of my strengths so I missed out. Possibly being a twin is part of the reason. Anyway my best friend from 10-12 years old grew up to be a great man but we parted ways throughout the years. He died a few years ago from cancer. My best friend from 13-15 lost contact when he and his family moved. He also died a few years ago in a car accident. My best friend during high school years entered the Navy about the time I married and started a family so we parted ways. We didn't speak for 25+ years but fortunately we reconnected last years and now my wife and I do things with him and his wife. Mostly riding the bikes and couple vacations stuff. Even my brother (twin) and I disconnected for 5 years or so after graduating and when we were starting families. I honestly can't imagine that now though. I guess we were just busy and let life get in the way for a few years. But it didn't last. Bro is my best friend and his wife is my wife's best friend.

So as it pertains this thread, give it a little time.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Maria Canosa Gargano said:


> I think you hit the nail on the head and gave me a perspective I hadn't thought of before: How fast and strongly I bonded to her because of what I shared with her. Perhaps if I had not done that, I would not have been so shooken up. Maybe I would have seen incompatibilities or someone who was not to be such an intimate friend because of innate differences.
> 
> I mentioned her conversion, because I do think that played a role in our separation. It surprised me at first, because I was initially one of her biggest supporters so I didn't want to believe it. But I did raise up some doubts when I felt that she was rushing into marriage too soon with a guy who was facing sexual assault charges. She could have felt that was an attack on her religion as she was doing it through the mosque. All speculation and I will never know, but believe it or not, I was truly caught off guard at first.
> 
> ...



That was in the last two years, my family is quite large, and death is a large part of it as well. I have aunts and uncles that are old enough to be my grandparents.

I accept that all attachments are temporary. I have lost a parent, other uncles, some friends, a couple of more cousins to death. I witness an uncle dying of a heart attack asking my father to save him, that he did not want to die. One of my uncles was a victim of a drive-by shooting. With a large family, the probability of facing loss is amplified.

To be honest, you grow more accustomed to it over time. You learn how to process your emotions quicker, you are more able to accept the facts, and life is pretty chaotic.

There is also another thing to consider, your only human. You have biological limits. Dunbar, a scientist states that we can only maintain a certain amounts of attachments. Only a few of those will be intimate ones. Your average person can know enough details for about 150 people. When you make too many attachments, you start letting go of the ones you have a harder time of maintaining. Down the line you might see a picture of someone you forgot, but they will not invoke the same emotions.

Being a victim of whatever trauma, we sometimes blame ourselves or are more critical of ourselves. Sometimes we forget that other people have their own dysfunction as well.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Wow...I didn't know you were a twin *Thundarr*.... our 2nd & 3rd is 11 months apart, they've always hung with the same group of friends, in band together, were in diapers & binkys together,.. it was like having twins.. I have so enjoyed witnessing that BOND over the years ... never ones to fight & hate on each other.. 2nd son goes off to college this year.. a little saddened but also for his BROTHER.. so much will be lost with his not being around... a season in their lives ending... but it has to BE...



> *Maria Canosa Gargano said*: *I felt that she was rushing into marriage too soon with a guy who was facing sexual assault charges. She could have felt that was an attack on her religion as she was doing it through the mosque. All speculation and I will never know, but believe it or not, I was truly caught off guard at first*.


Sexual assault [email protected]# You were concerned for her !!...any friend would be..... she may have decided she was going to look past these charges -for whatever reason --your being around caused her too much conflict... *she may have even told HIM and he wanted her to CUT the relationship off with you*.....possible ?? 




> *I think for my part, I tend to get overly upset about the loosening of any bond as I take it overly personally and see it as a failing on my part to keep it up instead of seeing it as a part of life.*


 I feel this way as well.. although I have never had a friend CUT ME OFF /meaning "just silence".. leaving you hanging stone cold.. 

One friend tried to.. but she had reason over something I said.. (me & my Big mouth!)...beings we were friends for like 15 yrs at the time .. knowing her like I did.. I watched her CUT MANY FRIENDS OFF, not talk to someone for years or end, convince herself they are all bad ...her getting deeply offended has this effect....then she's done.. but I wasn't going to let her get away with this.. so I called her....told her I really want to see her...to hear me out.... we took a long walk in the woods.. I explained that my words against her were said in HASTE due to being hurt over something she did.. 

Isn't this so often what happens.. then people just assume & stop talking...a friendship lost. 

I humbled myself before her, she seen my heart... there were tears on both ends.. she opened up to me too, really we were both surprised to some of what came out .......we sat on a hillside for a time throwing rocks in the distance....sharing... when we emerged from that walk.. .... she has called me her best friend from that time on.. this was 17 yrs ago now. Had I not confronted her... and she dissed me.. what a loss it would have been...

The Hardest for me was ..my very best friend in high school.. lived down the road.. I felt a part of her family... practically lived there ... WE WERE TIGHT , shared every secret, laughing into the night.. those were some of the best days of my life....but as all things go...

We have these seasons....she started to head down a path that wasn't who I was.. smoking, drinking.. weed.. partying.. leaning towards a different crowd.... I met my H by this time... which helped this transition for me..

I grieved this friendship... as in my wonder of being Best friends -that close.. somehow I thought it would never end. we'd grow old together.. our Husbands be friends, all that.. but it wasn't meant to be.. we stayed in touch.. but our lives were just too different...she went off to college, big city girl.. high class Job.. I married , country life, kids, SAHM.... I still had her as my Maid of honor in our wedding though.. and we'll message on FB now & again.. 

I had to realize her / her family was a SEASON in my life...I will forever hold them close in my heart.. I feel they were planted there to help me get through some of the difficulties I had at home...will always treasure the memories we shared.. but yeah.. people move on... we make new friends.. 

There is a season for all..


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Hmm, after drinking tea, I hypothesize that she may be with a highly controlling person. She is either in the infatuation stage, or she is in an abusive relationship, and guilt, shame, or her husband is in control of who she is in contact with.

Just a guess anyways. If it was a sudden change of behavior, cutting out her family, there is a high chance of controlling behavior.

If you know her family well, or others that are close, or was once close to her, there could be a clue.

Somehow I missed the part of the sexual assault charge. It may mean nothing, but the probability and from little of what you describe of her change, little things add up.

Perhaps send a probe to someone you both know in common that may be closer to the situation like a sibling.


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## Maria Canosa Gargano (Jan 30, 2015)

Thundarr said:


> We all have our strengths and weaknesses Maria. Looking back I realize that being a long term best friend was not one of my strengths so I missed out. Possibly being a twin is part of the reason. Anyway my best friend from 10-12 years old grew up to be a great man but we parted ways throughout the years. He died a few years ago from cancer. My best friend from 13-15 lost contact when he and his family moved. He also died a few years ago in a car accident. My best friend during high school years entered the Navy about the time I married and started a family so we parted ways. We didn't speak for 25+ years but fortunately we reconnected last years and now my wife and I do things with him and his wife. Mostly riding the bikes and couple vacations stuff. Even my brother (twin) and I disconnected for 5 years or so after graduating and when we were starting families. I honestly can't imagine that now though. I guess we were just busy and let life get in the way for a few years. But it didn't last. Bro is my best friend and his wife is my wife's best friend.
> 
> So as it pertains this thread, give it a little time.


Funny enough. I am a twin too! Haha. I actually lost that relationship for about 15 years, but that was due to her suffering from an eating disorder. It's a lot like having a family member with an addiction. I always knew though that when she came out on the other side of it, we would be best friends again.

I think time is the answer, as well as introspection. All of these responses have pushed me past the feelings of self-guilt to look at the whole situation more objectively. 



Mr.Fisty said:


> ...To be honest, you grow more accustomed to it over time. You learn how to process your emotions quicker, you are more able to accept the facts, and life is pretty chaotic.
> 
> There is also another thing to consider, your only human. You have biological limits. Dunbar, a scientist states that we can only maintain a certain amounts of attachments. Only a few of those will be intimate ones. Your average person can know enough details for about 150 people. When you make too many attachments, you start letting go of the ones you have a harder time of maintaining. Down the line you might see a picture of someone you forgot, but they will not invoke the same emotions.
> 
> Being a victim of whatever trauma, we sometimes blame ourselves or are more critical of ourselves. Sometimes we forget that other people have their own dysfunction as well.


For it changing over time, I have actually had the opposite process happen. I think that is why this situation has been on my mind. It is part of a larger process of me re-orienting myself.

I think there are two things going on in my thought process. I intellectually accept that attachments fade and grow over time. Emotionally, I take the critical route. The reason for that I think is this line of thinking: "I can't be critical of this person because I too have my own failings. If I can't accept the way that person treated me or is, then I can't accept myself when I act that way."

I think in that way of thinking it undermines my own ability to make boundaries. I can make boundaries without damning the other person for who they are. I can also accept myself when I do act in a negative way by judging my own action to be lower than I want and then accepting the consequences and moving on as my own boundary towards myself. Making boundaries doesn't mean that you are against the other person, it is in fact a healthy way of maintaining and respecting relationships. 

TBH, This line of thinking is new for me. Lately I have been processing all the thought patterns of my childhood and this is one thing that I have been dealing with. You think so many years later you are done and have accepted the past, and my relationship with my parents is great now. But I have found myself struggling with this line of thinking as I process it all. My mother was an alcoholic and my father an enabler. I remember a lot of guilt in my childhood as well as being blamed as the cause of stress for my mother as to what caused her to drink.

It made for unhealthy boundaries. As I went through early adulthood I found it easier and easier to make boundaries and actually thought of it as one of my strengths!But ironically, as my mother has been sober and my relationship with both my parents is now recently (in the last 2 years), much much better, I have felt a lot more guilt. I wonder if the feeling that I can't make boundaries without judging comes from not just old habits, but from seeing them as human beings who have their own faults just like I do and having a deep set of emotions connected to them and *over* identifying with them in order to reconnect. Kind of like in having to tear down the walls of resentment and boundaries I built up, I am questioning everything I thought about boundaries and the roles I have played in the breakdown of relationships as well? 

But having read everyone's comments and thinking about it myself. I wouldn't want someone else to have no boundaries with me. Recently I messed up with a friend and they called me out. Of course I was embarrassed but I made myself vulnerable and we worked through it and I felt not only closer to them but more to myself as by crossing their boundary, I crossed a boundary with my own values. I wouldn't have taken that right from my friend or anyone else, so why do I feel that I need to second-guess myself?

I can already feel a slight shift, a feeling of yeah that's right, in my thinking to my old way of looking at boundaries as a way to navigate relationships without putting anyone down.

As for the 150 people thing. I certainly have met and had relationships with more than that. I do agree that the ties fade over time. I think getting past the overly self-critical part of my thinking, I will always cherish relationships I had with others. Though the attachment and bond may fade, I will always appreciate another person for spending time with me in this life. We only have a short time here on this Earth and I always appreciate someone else sharing their journey with me, even if just for a moment. Emotionally the connections will not be as strong, but I do hope that if I somehow happen to meet someone farther down the road again, I can look them in the eye and know that I saw them as a full human being when we first met. Now I need to turn to myself and see myself as a full human being and extend the same graciousness as well.

I am going to respond to your next points, its just that this post is getting really long.


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## Maria Canosa Gargano (Jan 30, 2015)

SimplyAmorous said:


> ....
> 
> Sexual assault [email protected]# You were concerned for her !!...any friend would be..... she may have decided she was going to look past these charges -for whatever reason --your being around caused her too much conflict... *she may have even told HIM and he wanted her to CUT the relationship off with you*.....possible ??
> 
> ...


I was very supportive of her exploring her beliefs and faith, but I did become concerned about her entering that relationship. Another long story if you don't mind.

I have no idea about this man she married. I never met him. All she told me was that she had met a wonderful guy who wanted to marry her. She knew he was the one but he had a sexual assault charge against him. He ended up getting cleared from it, but when she was telling me she made the woman who pressed the charges out to be a manipulative *****. Maybe that woman was and was in fact herself a predator and he was the victim. I am totally open to that possibility. However, I was concerned that she had not taken the time to get to know his personality, it had been just a few weeks of her knowing him, which was something of much higher concern due to his accusation. 

What Mr. Fisty said about me being a threat to her new life is more and more true. While I was initially very supportive of her new found beliefs, I ended up becoming more skeptical of her intentions. She seemed most focused on Arab culture and on the fairytale of being married. That is harsh, but for 3 years I had been hearing about how every new man was The One. When I met these men I was less than impressed. They were either cheating on her, talked down to her, or using her for sexual favors. 

She had a friend who reconverted to Islam. She fell in love with a man who everyone thought was abusive, up to the point where they all had me sit down and talk to her about it. This friend thought that God was calling her to marry this man, change him, and to change herself. I thought she was headed down the wrong path, but maybe she was right. She ended up becoming the head of the Islamic community in the area, marrying this man, and from what I heard publicly, he said some feminist things and declared his new found love for God. To this day I remain skeptical of that. Nothing can change my opinion that a man or woman who is abusive will change overnight. 

I think this second friend influenced my friend I am talking about. This second friend truly did look radiant out of happiness for her new life and I did find myself second-guessing my initial judgment many times. My first friend's conversion started shortly after that.

When my friend first became interested in religion, I was happy for her that she was looking inside of herself to make her happy, but I then began to see it as an extension of looking for a man or in general of wanting to be accepted. God seemed like a second attraction to her, and the community and marriage seemed like the main attraction. When she did say that she was giving herself over to God, I think she could tell I didn't believe it even as I tried to remain supportive of her decision. Perhaps I would have urged her to reconsider her decision if we stayed friends and so that makes absolute sense why she would cut me off.

The thing is, I myself am not religious. I consider myself agnostic. I can't say if there is a God or not, so my opposition to what she was going through did not come out of a conflict with my beliefs. I myself went through something similar to what she did.

I truly wrestled with the fact that I did not believe in a God. I always found practicing a religion to be helpful, to be beautiful, and to ask larger questions about life. But in my heart, I knew that I was not being truthful to myself when I professed devotion to a God. I decided the only way out was in. I dedicated myself intensely to religious study and worship. I dedicated myself to the religion that I felt most reflected my values and I ended up looking like this for a year:

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2004/20040201/spectrum/images/sikh lady.jpg

I followed all the rituals and such but after the end of a year I had no more devotion in my heart to a God or not. 

I did have a beautiful year that cemented in my mind the importance of spiritual questioning. Long before religions were established, and places of worship founded, all humans had a spiritual need. Some people find that need fulfilled in a house of worship, I found that my needs were fulfilled externally and internally to any one religion. Externally with questioning and love from other people which is what I found in my religious devotion, but internally also by accepting that any one teaching was not going to satisfy me. I would only be satisfied by eternal questioning. 

That was why I was happy for my friend. Then I became skeptical as I felt she was repeating an old habit of picking the worst men. But who knows? I am sure many thought I was doing something similar when I was wrapping my turban. Perhaps like with the second girl, she did actually turn herself around as did her partner. Perhaps he truly is the best thing that has ever happened to her and I am just sitting her stewing 

SA. The way you write the story about your friend is so vivid. I wasn't just reading about you opening up yourself to your friend, I FELT it. We have all done something to offend our friends and it is so easy to just let it harden us. But you stood up and showed your true character and made yourself vulnerable to her. I can see why she would want to be a lifelong friend with you. You showed her that you were trustworthy even when it would have been easier to walk away.

Seasons is the perfect word to describe friendship and all relationships. Each season building up on the last, cycles of renewal and decay.


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## Maria Canosa Gargano (Jan 30, 2015)

Mr.Fisty said:


> Hmm, after drinking tea, I hypothesize that she may be with a highly controlling person. She is either in the infatuation stage, or she is in an abusive relationship, and guilt, shame, or her husband is in control of who she is in contact with.
> 
> Just a guess anyways. If it was a sudden change of behavior, cutting out her family, there is a high chance of controlling behavior.
> 
> ...


Mr. Fisty,

The only thing I know was that they are married and she seems very happy. He may have possibly been the victim of a false charge. I don't know! As I posted in the last post of mine, I had my doubts about her reasons for entering Islam. I felt it was continuing a bad habit of looking for The One in her life. That doesn't mean that the man she met wasn't actually The One! 

I had the same thought, that he would be controlling as she seemed like the perfect victim. New to a religion , looking for a man, a history of accepting lower class men. But maybe he saw the real her and loves her unconditionally. 

I lean more towards the, this is not a good situation, and probably always will even once I overcome the self-critical responses I have had. All evidence points to it not being good, but I can accept that I don't know everything and less probable things can happen and turn out well. 

Its been so long and I left her enough messages of "I will always be here when you are ready", that I think I will let actually contacting her lie. I posted this thread because I want to understand why it is bothering me even when having her friendship active in my life again is not something I want to work towards. I put up some of my thoughts two posts ago as to why I think it is still bothering me. I also posted this thread because in general I am interested in hearing other people's stories. The ephemeral quality of relationships is an interesting dynamic and I want to see how others have faced it in their lives.

I do want to say, she truly was a wonderful friend when I was with her. I opened myself up to her for a reason. The negative comments about her love life are a window into why I think she split from me. Not an indicator of the quality of who I think she is as a person.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

My counselor says that the way other people react to you has more to do with them than it does with you. So don't take it personally.

Hard to do if you are sensitive, though.


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## Maria Canosa Gargano (Jan 30, 2015)

jld said:


> My counselor says that the way other people react to you has more to do with them than it does with you. So don't take it personally.
> 
> Hard to do if you are sensitive, though.


Can I put "Yes" A thousand times to being sensitive.

Hahaha. I think sensitive comes with "over thinking"


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Yes, I would agree with that. 

Some friendships are not meant to last. And some are, but with lots of flexibility.

As much as you can, try to let this go. Let it be whatever it needs to be, for however long it needs to be it.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

It happens, and it's never nice to be on the other side of it.

When I started getting serious with my ex wife (I was in my early 20's) I basically cut out all of my friends at that point. I didn't mean to, it wasn't a conscious decision, and she didn't tell me to. It just happened. She did the same. Ended up with a lot of mutual friends.

This time around, I made sure to maintain the friends I had going into the relationship with my wife, as I recognize their importance more than I did 20+ years ago.

The cool thing is that many of the friends I inadvertently ditched way back then, are now back in my life in one way or another. There were a couple that I reached out to, and a few that reached out to me, and a few that I bumped into over the years and rekindled the friendship with.

Obviously now most of them are married, have kids etc. so we're all basically at the same stage in life again. Back then, I was not, and that's more or less what it comes down to in these situations. Couples, especially married couples, find it hard to make time for single friends, or somehow include them (and vice versa) in their social circles. It's just the way it is.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Yup, it's happened to me a couple times. If friendship is very important to you, like it is for me, it always hurts. 

I've had a few very close friends just disappear. One of them dropped contact with me during the worst time in my life, when my mom died. We were out of contact for the better part of a year before I got over the sense of betrayal, humbled myself and contacted HIM. Glad I did actually. Turns out he was in a new relationship around the time my mom died, got caught up in all that, and basically just dropped the ball totally. He felt so ashamed not being there that he just let the shame carry him away and didn't feel like he could bridge the gap. I just told him that the past was the past, all was forgiven, and that I missed him. He apologized profusely, was super grateful for me reaching out, and totally still wanted to be friends. After that we're closer than we were before the rift and I consider him one of my best friends now.

Thinking about that story, and looking back now, almost all the truly close friends eventually came back into my life. I know that doesn't happen with many people though.

I have cut off the rare friend here and there. But that was always for a distinct reason and purpose and I always let them know why.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

alexm said:


> When I started getting serious with my ex wife (I was in my early 20's) I basically cut out all of my friends at that point. I didn't mean to, it wasn't a conscious decision, and she didn't tell me to. It just happened. She did the same...Couples, especially married couples, find it hard to make time for single friends, or somehow include them (and vice versa) in their social circles. It's just the way it is.


This is still hard for me to grasp. I don't get how people can just dismiss friends totally just because they get involved with someone romantically.

Obviously spending less times with friends makes complete sense, as does shifting some activities that were once staunchly associated with a single life. But I don't understand the total annihilation of all friendships at the altar of romance. Sure if you had friends that were only associated with the single life, i.e. bar friends or strip club friends, those make sense. But all friends, even the ones considered close and important? I've tried to grasp the thought pattern, but I never have. Neither me nor my wife did this, not during our LTR nor our marriage, so it's hard to comprehend the thought pattern.


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## Aspydad (Oct 17, 2013)

I have had many friends throughout my life and the relationships usually ended because as SA pointed out - there are many seasons in life. 

My best friend from when I was in 7th grade is now a casual acquaintance - I see him about once a year when I travel back to the hometown where I grew up - we get together for a beer and just talk about old times. We did loose touch for about 10 years because my dad got transferred across the country - I went back to my hometown and worked one summer in 1986 and actually ran into this guy on accident - we have kept in touch ever since.

In high school I had many friends that I hung around with through sports. My best friend in 11th grade was actually a girl that I dated - but, I did start to hang around with two guys that ended up being my best friends through out high school, college and even early on once I was married. We were all in each other weddings.

One of these friends really is still my best friend even though we only see each other about once a year. we do talk on the phone though about once a month. He is just so busy with his kids - his wife and he had a very hard time getting pregnant and had to use in vitro fertilization to have kids - they have a set of twins (non-lookalike) and then one more younger one - all girls. His oldest are in 10th grade and are very active. we live about an hour away so t is very difficult to get together. But, I will say this - we do have each others back - I would do anything for this guy and he for me.

The other friend - which is more of the topic of this thread - I have completely CUT OFF FROM MY LIFE. I do believe that this old friend has Borderline Personality Disorder - and this disorder has just increased in intensity as this guy got older. It just pains me to even think about this because there was a point in my life - that I would have done anything for this guy. 

Here is a sample of who he is: All three of our bachelor parties - he got laid (yes, even on the eve of his own wedding he cheated on his wife to be). At my bachelor party - we are at this bar at 2 am - he comes to me and asks for my car keys - says he has hooked up with this girl who is the sister of another girl who he had had sex with in the past - so he wants to say he has done sisters - I give him my keys - he is supposed to be back in 1 hour - and he never comes back - so me and four other guys that I was driving (I was the designated driver because I never drink to get drunk) had to get a cab home - on the way - I see my buddy pulled over with a cop behind him (he was driving my company car) - luckily - because he is a smooth talker - the cops let him go with a warning.

This guy has been married three times - has five kids from all three exes; his parents will not talk to him, he cannot work for anyone, his business is about bankrupt do to the fact that he got arrested and convicted of domestic assault with his last wife. I actually had to bail him out of jail two years ago - he could not get a bail bond because he had cut his ankle (tracking device) off and went to one of his kids ball games when he was not supposed to do that. Today - I am still out $20K and my wife gets pissed every time she thinks of it. The straw that broke the camels back was when he called me ordered me to tell my wife to stop being Facebook friend with his second wife - my wife found out and told me to never make contact with this guy again - and I agreed.

After all that - I still miss my old friend who really - is dead to me now.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

jaquen said:


> This is still hard for me to grasp. I don't get how people can just dismiss friends totally just because they get involved with someone romantically.
> 
> Obviously spending less times with friends makes complete sense, as does shifting some activities that were once staunchly associated with a single life. But I don't understand the total annihilation of all friendships at the altar of romance. Sure if you had friends that were only associated with the single life, i.e. bar friends or strip club friends, those make sense. But all friends, even the ones considered close and important? I've tried to grasp the thought pattern, but I never have. Neither me nor my wife did this, not during our LTR nor our marriage, so it's hard to comprehend the thought pattern.


In my case, like I said, it wasn't a conscious decision, like "I don't need you any more, see you later". It just happened. And by the time I realized it happened, it was like you described what your friend did to you - it was too late.

This time around (second marriage), I made sure this didn't happen, and I kept my friendships alive. It is, however, a lot easier when one's friends are at the same stage of life as you are.

I can clearly remember one of my friends in particular, from 20+ years ago, and how it happened. When I started dating my ex wife, I still hung out with him on occasion, including with my ex a few times. Then one day, he showed up at my house to show off his new (old) car, unannounced. My ex and I were on our way out to do something, so I wasn't able to really check out his new car or hang out or anything, and I remember he was a little bummed out. He was excited, as it was his first car.

Things snowballed from there. A phone call or two to me to hang out that I missed, and I kept saying "I'll call him back later/tomorrow", which lead to next week, and on and on. I clearly remember wanting to set aside time for just him, so I could give him a call without my girlfriend around, but it just never worked out that way, we were always doing something.

Fast forward over 20 years and not only did we get back in touch, but he was a grooms man at my wedding and I'm a godfather to his first child.

I believe that true friendships stand the test of time (and ex wives!). It's just getting through those times that are difficult for one or both people.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

When a person cuts all contact with us we do have to ask our self questions....was it me, what did I do. Many times the issue is with the person who has chosen no contact. That choice is theirs whether we agree or understand it. There is nothing we can do about that choice but accept it. Do analyze yourself and the situation as I think that is healthy in looking at what you contributed to the relationship. Learn for what you feel may have been a problem area and then move on. All we can do in life in live and learn. Do not dwell or beat yourself up. Sometimes we may like someone real well but the feelings are not mutual and rather than being upfront some choose to make no contact. Others are users, so who knows what you were dealing with.


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## kokonatsu (Feb 22, 2013)

oh, this is one thing that I have really been struggling with lately.. 

i haven't talked to two friends (who are sisters) in about two or three years.. because i got into a disagreement with my roommate (who all of us were mutual college friends with), and they 110% sided with her.. I asked them to not get involved, but they did, no doubt at the urging of my ex-roommate, anyway, only one of them came to listen to "my side" and then all three of them ganged up on me, because "that's how they do it in their family", not taking into consideration how my family deals with arguments, and my personality (i have been quite the pushover in the past.. this experience helped me get some more backbone..), and basically bullying me into signing a very unfair, inconsiderate contract (that I really should not have signed, but like I said, pushover). 

so we've tried to communicate via email, because my strength is writing, and it's easier for me to communicate my thoughts/emotions in writing, but to no avail, they would not even spare a moment to think about how I felt, what they did to me, how my ex-roommate was being unfair to me, etc. 

but they were my close friends for eight years, and it's been really hard to let them go, despite how they treated me. and I recently learned that one of them has a new baby girl and the other is engaged, so I'm thinking about contacting them and congratulating them, but every time I think about emailing them, but then every time I think about that, something comes up, like a photo on facebook or something that says something to the effect of "certain people aren't in your life for a reason... let it go... etc." so I don't. but I think about them often. 

so my question is, how do you let something like that go??


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## Maria Canosa Gargano (Jan 30, 2015)

Before I respond to anyone, I want to say that I feel refreshed after posting this today. Though the situation hasn't changed at all, I think acknowledging how I felt and going almost stream-of-conscious in my thoughts, I've dumped a lot of the negative thoughts off of my mind. 

I've tested as an ENFJ, and though I don't agree completely with any personality profile, I do think that this profile fits me when it comes to processing through inner conflicts by bouncing ideas off of others.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Maria Canosa Gargano said:


> I have no idea about this man she married. I never met him. All she told me was that she had met a wonderful guy who wanted to marry her. She knew he was the one but he had a sexual assault charge against him. He ended up getting cleared from it, but when she was telling me she made the woman who pressed the charges out to be a manipulative *****. Maybe that woman was and was in fact herself a predator and he was the victim. I am totally open to that possibility. *However, I was concerned that she had not taken the time to get to know his personality, it had been just a few weeks of her knowing him, which was something of much higher concern due to his accusation. *


 Just saying.. I would feel the same way.. absolutely [email protected]#



> She seemed most focused on Arab culture and on the fairytale of being married.* That is harsh, but for 3 years I had been hearing about how every new man was The One. When I met these men I was less than impressed. They were either cheating on her, talked down to her, or using her for sexual favors. *


I think it would be very frustrating to see a friend obsessing like this -against common sense.. and the reality of these situations..I am sure you were pulling your hair out...

I can understand her deep longing to find "the one" though.. some of us dream of finding that special person.. and raising a family together.... I was similar in this -but far more pessimistic natured over your friend.....understanding it takes TIME, shared experiences.. digging DEEP to know if someone is all they are portraying.. No short cuts here ..

Relationship experts say if a couple can get past 18 months still feeling in love, that high together.... they have beat the odds.. as before this.. they are still in that "upped hormonal" infatuation stage -too often missing















. 

Oh it's possible that it worked out for her, that the assault charge was not true & they were compatible & all.. but still... it sounds you were being "very Sound" as a friend.. and she should have been able to SEE THIS..even if she didn't agree.. understanding your intentions were well & good .. for her well being...



> She had a friend who reconverted to Islam. She fell in love with a man who everyone thought was abusive, up to the point where they all had me sit down and talk to her about it. This friend thought that God was calling her to marry this man, change him, and to change herself.* I thought she was headed down the wrong path, but maybe she was right. She ended up becoming the head of the Islamic community in the area, marrying this man, and from what I heard publicly, he said some feminist things and declared his new found love for God. To this day I remain skeptical of that. Nothing can change my opinion that a man or woman who is abusive will change overnight. *


 Yeah.. it's hard to tell .. too often if /when a couple reaches public status (her being in the limelight of the Islamic community- his declaring his love for God) ...it's possible they are just wearing happy successful faces -with it being something completely different behind closed doors ..(unless they are the Kardashians of course). 



> *When my friend first became interested in religion, I was happy for her that she was looking inside of herself to make her happy, but I then began to see it as an extension of looking for a man or in general of wanting to be accepted. God seemed like a second attraction to her, and the community and marriage seemed like the main attraction. When she did say that she was giving herself over to God, I think she could tell I didn't believe it even as I tried to remain supportive of her decision. Perhaps I would have urged her to reconsider her decision if we stayed friends and so that makes absolute sense why she would cut me off*.


 sounds she just wanted to find Love & get married..her feeling THIS was HER TICKET to doing so.. so she would conform to bring that about.. was it that outside of this community, far less men were the marrying type?... 



> http://www.tribuneindia.com/2004/20040201/spectrum/images/sikh lady.jpg


 I clicked on that.. was a little surprised.. 



> *I followed all the rituals and such but after the end of a year I had no more devotion in my heart to a God or not.
> 
> I did have a beautiful year that cemented in my mind the importance of spiritual questioning. Long before religions were established, and places of worship founded, all humans had a spiritual need. Some people find that need fulfilled in a house of worship, I found that my needs were fulfilled externally and internally to any one religion. Externally with questioning and love from other people which is what I found in my religious devotion, but internally also by accepting that any one teaching was not going to satisfy me. I would only be satisfied by eternal questioning.*


 One thing is for sure.. we need to be true to ourselves...if there is a GOD.. he knows our hearts anyway.. 

I posted on this thread my transition to Deism -pretty much.. (post #24) ....like you more an Agnostic...I relate to much of what you are saying here.. http://talkaboutmarriage.com/politics-religion/139209-what-church-faith-you.html













> *That was why I was happy for my friend. Then I became skeptical as I felt she was repeating an old habit of picking the worst men. But who knows? I am sure many thought I was doing something similar when I was wrapping my turban. Perhaps like with the second girl, she did actually turn herself around as did her partner. Perhaps he truly is the best thing that has ever happened to her and I am just sitting her stewing*


 So where is she now.. is there any way to reach her.. a letter.. Facebook... sending her a message of "Hey I was thinking of you ...remember when ____".. ..not that you even want to do this...you are just airing this out here.. but feel she rejected you.. so no, you wouldn't go there again.. that's asking too much.. which even I would understand... At the most .. 2 times to reach out -probably my limit even.. 



> *SA. The way you write the story about your friend is so vivid. I wasn't just reading about you opening up yourself to your friend, I FELT it. We have all done something to offend our friends and it is so easy to just let it harden us. But you stood up and showed your true character and made yourself vulnerable to her. I can see why she would want to be a lifelong friend with you. You showed her that you were trustworthy even when it would have been easier to walk away.*


 Yes, it was a very difficult time for HER actually.. going through a divorce.. there was another GF involved in the scuffle...she didn't share how Horrible her H was to her -out of embarrassment & shame...here he was talking to me & H... in this she felt betrayed & probably rightly so... it was her H trying to sabotage her friendships...causing a divide between us.. but he didn't win.. 

Her oldest son calls me "Mom" comes to every Holiday .. we call him our 6th son.. I was Maid of Honor in her wedding 2 yrs ago.... unfortunately she was in a very bad accident in Nov.. her body is broken in ways she will never be the same.. her attitude in this.. well.. she's an inspiration TO ME.. she wants me to bring my Wedding soup the next time I visit. On my list to please my friend. 



> *Seasons is the perfect word to describe friendship and all relationships. Each season building up on the last, cycles of renewal and decay*.










...now to just find acceptance with this... right [email protected]


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

In my early 30's I lost a 20 year friendship, with my best friend from high school. We met when we were 12 years old and were two peas in a pod from then on.

We were there for each other through everything over the next 20 years and then all of a sudden she changed. It was just after she got married, but I don't think it was the wedding that changed her if that makes sense, lol. I always got along well with her husband, no issues there.

Not long after the wedding they were told that they'd never be able to have children. She was seriously considering divorce. They tried everything, she became obsessed with getting pregnant, which they did once but lost the baby the day after they found out (devastating).

Through years of this, I was there for her, took many emotional punches from her - she was very angry at her situation. Honestly, some of the things she said to me, omg. But I stuck by her.

Then I met my ex, and found myself in an abusive relationship. After a few months, she got sick of listening to me cry and talk about it and her patience ran out. During this time she also managed to get pregnant and have a baby boy. She then had a baby girl. Both miracles.

Over time we drifted apart and finally had a conversation where we both agreed our friendship had reached the end of it's life. We moved on with no hard feelings, or so I thought. I've seen her twice since in a big shopping centre around Christmas, and both times she looked right through me, then looked away and kept walking. I was surprised but not upset. There's no hard feelings on my part, but clearly there is on hers.

Of course, her version of the above would be different to mine, as it's based on her perception of what happened. The reality is probably somewhere there in the middle.

Sometimes you just have to let things go, as hard as it is.


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## Maria Canosa Gargano (Jan 30, 2015)

I agree with everyone that the best is just to let it go.

I know for me, this story was sticking out in my mind. It was strange because I felt it was in the past. But recently it came up. After writing this all down and having some time to think about it. I don't think it has to do with that relationship. I think it actually has to do with the recovery of the relationship with my parents. 

I think this past relationship bubbled up because similar feelings I felt during and at the end of the relationship are similar to feelings I am going through now. The feelings are less reactions to present day situations and reactions to old habits and patterns. 

I know that for me, my emotions and thoughts bubble up to the surface and I have to let them flow up and then trace them down to their origin. Going through it by myself is not always enough for me to break the pattern or see the roots, but other people see it so much more clearly that it helps me to get past what emotional hook I was getting stuck on.

*SimplyAmorous*,

Yes, that picture is pretty startling. Maybe I was a strange kid but my dream was always to become a nun after reading about Mother Teresa. I took up all the dressing the same way a nun would wear the habit as a way to not concentrate on worldly things. I really wanted to give all of myself and all parts of my life. I wondered if it was that I was not devoted enough for why I did not believe the way I thought I should. I actually now do not agree with giving up all worldly things. It ends up becoming a target for attention and people started looking at me as a representation for something that I was just trying to understand myself. 

Deism also does seem to match up with a lot of my beliefs as well. Thank you for sharing  When I am not so busy, I will check into it more.

Looking back on how I treated my friend. I now not only know but feel that there is no reason to feel guilty for being skeptical. That's just going with the evidence. However, I do hope that he did end up being the man she needed and that her religious journey is fulfilling. I think that strange feeling was a result of re-orienting myself to constructing boundaries and judgement of those boundaries in my current relationships. For some reason, this relationship bubbled up.

Talking to you all and allowing my thoughts to just pour out, allowed me to get past my own circular thinking, see the facts of my situation, and move on past it. 

I also want to thank everyone for sharing their story. Its affecting to know that our most personal experiences are so universal in some ways as well. I am not sure what to say to each individual story, but both the pain and clarity about life is palpable.


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## marriedandlonely (Nov 7, 2011)

I had a friend in college who I was very close to. I felt that we did a lot of exploring, growing and maturing together. She was converting Islam. She had grown up in a Christian household that was done in a tyrannical, not loving way. I myself had confided in her a lot of my trials that I went through (as I have said numerous times here, the sexual assault)

Maybe when she converted to Islam she married a man that won't let her associate with christians


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## Maria Canosa Gargano (Jan 30, 2015)

marriedandlonely said:


> I had a friend in college who I was very close to. I felt that we did a lot of exploring, growing and maturing together. She was converting Islam. She had grown up in a Christian household that was done in a tyrannical, not loving way. I myself had confided in her a lot of my trials that I went through (as I have said numerous times here, the sexual assault)
> 
> Maybe when she converted to Islam she married a man that won't let her associate with christians


That could be true. I am not a Christian and I know nothing about him so I won't place the blame on him. It could simply have been that I did not fit into her life anymore. Remember that was in college and I was young(er than I am now). I myself was going on and exploring who I was too. Perhaps she was just ready to settle down and live a more stable life in opposition to the average college kid exploration. So I partook in activities she may have wanted to distance herself such as partying and drinking.


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