# Semi-beta male adding more alpha getting a negative response from spouse



## NEM (Jul 13, 2012)

I would like to know beta men out there, when you add more alpha traits like doing less work around the house and being more assertive towards your wife, basically adding more alpha traits, do you first get negative response from your spouse initially (getting more arguments and confrontations) and does it get better with time?


----------



## humanbecoming (Mar 14, 2012)

Did you do housework before the issues started? Were you assertive? Your wife fell in love with you at some point-what have you started doing or stopped doing since then?
Trying to change your basic personality is almost impossible to do, so if you are trying to be something you are not, she is probably going to call BS, and get annoyed by the game. Figure out what she needs to feel love, and find where you got complacent, then change FOR YOU, and you will be much better off. Probably get that spark back too


----------



## NEM (Jul 13, 2012)

humanbecoming said:


> Did you do housework before the issues started? Were you assertive? Your wife fell in love with you at some point-what have you started doing or stopped doing since then?
> Trying to change your basic personality is almost impossible to do, so if you are trying to be something you are not, she is probably going to call BS, and get annoyed by the game. Figure out what she needs to feel love, and find where you got complacent, then change FOR YOU, and you will be much better off. Probably get that spark back too



My personality is leaning more towards positive beta and I do posses some positive alpha traits. Physically I am not that bad, well toned and well dress, after all I do take care of myself, as I am only 30 years old. We dated for 2 years and married for 4 years. From day one, I was always the one doing the most housework; I do it to show my appreciations of her. All she does is cook when we didn't have any children. You can say that I spoiled her, but I didn't see that before.


We have a 2 years old son now. Financially we are very stable, let just say we have everything we wanted. For a year, I hired a house cleaning service, all she has to do is cook us dinner and taking care of our son, but now since we have her mother prepared dinner, all she need is to heated up when we get home. 

BTW, we are not living with her parents, we live close by, so her mother prepares dinner and she will pick it up after her long day do nothing but go to the yoga class, hair salon, facial, etc. pampering herself and going to classes.

The past 3 months our housekeeper quit and I became the person doing most of the housework.


----------



## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

NEM said:


> I would like to know beta men out there, when you add more alpha traits like doing less work around the house and being more assertive towards your wife, basically adding more alpha traits, do you first get negative response from your spouse initially (getting more arguments and confrontations) and does it get better with time?


Checked your other posts.

You have hinted at an extraordinarily one-sided relationship, but you haven't spelled much out. So there isn't much to go on.

But I will answer you simply.

If you expect anything other than a negative reaction as you shift the dynamic in your relationship than you're fooling yourself.

And honestly, it most certainly may NOT get better with time. That is the entire purpose of the exercise. You need to determine whether you have a partner or an employer. Depending upon which your spouse wants to be will determine whether things get better or you end up resigning your position.


----------



## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

NEM said:


> My personality is leaning more towards positive beta and I do posses some positive alpha traits. Physically I am not that bad, well toned and well dress, after all I do take care of myself, as I am only 30 years old. We dated for 2 years and married for 4 years. From day one, I was always the one doing the most housework; I do it to show my appreciations of her. All she does is cook when we didn't have any children. You can say that I spoiled her, but I didn't see that before.
> 
> 
> We have a 2 years old son now. Financially we are very stable, let just say we have everything we wanted. For a year, I hired a house cleaning service, all she has to do is cook us dinner and taking care of our son, but now since we have her mother prepared dinner, all she need is to heated up when we get home.
> ...


If you were your wife, would you want any changes in your life?


From her point of view it seems she “has it made”. It seems as though she is truly fulfilled with what appears to me to be an uninspiring, lazy, cosseted, unambitious, non challenging, predictable, spoilt, indulgent etc. etc. etc. way of life.

And along you come with your new Alpha hat on wanting to upset the apple cart and change her such that she does her share of the work! I don't see that you have any chance of that at all.


If I were you I’d be thinking “I have absolutely no chance of changing this. So this is it for as long as I stay married to her”. And then make your mind up if you want to live the way your living now for the rest of your married life.


----------



## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

NEM, even with all the reasons and best motivations in the world and given that a person wants to change themselves, those changes can be very hard one. They take dedication, resourcefulness, tenacity, perseverance, creativity and a whole lot of other things.


But above any and everything else the person must WANT to change. They must WANT to get out of the situation they are currently in by either improving it or leaving it behind them.

It’s mostly pain that drives a person’s changes. Some leave it such that they’re really burning before they start their change. Pain and fear are the main motivators of change in these types of situations.


From what you’ve written it seems your wife already has her “dream” life. It doesn’t sound like for example she wants to further educate herself so she earns more money to get things with or provide assistance/aid to others. She doesn’t want to learn to cook to provide you with better and healthier meals. She doesn’t want to keep her home clean and tidy for herself or anyone else. Get my drift?


Your wife is happy as she is. Now you could go on a lifetime mission of upper your alpha in the hope that she will start being the wife you want her to be. And that my friend is like pushing the proverbial rock up a very very steep slope only to get it a few yards up the hill before it rolls down and you start all over.


----------



## betta (Nov 13, 2012)

You know, I have to agree with Deejo on this point. A one-sided relationship, in my experience, stays one-sided without a ton of work on your part. If you want her to be involved and responsible, it's going to take a lot of time, and a lot of hassle. 

From what you've said, I don't think she respects or accepts you as a person, but rather as a wallet and a maid she screws sometimes. That, of course, is only my opinion. 

I think you need to decide what you're willing to give up to stay in this relationship. I think you need to decide what you can reasonably expect from her. I think you need to form a strategy to protect your kid from the conflicts that are coming. 

Marriage counseling is a good first step. Keep an eye on her when she interacts with her mother and father and your child. If you find that her parents are doing most of the child-rearing then you know exactly what you're up against: entitled little brat that never grew up.

If it helps, realization is almost always painful.


----------



## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

The way I would suggest you think about it is she had a guiding hand in constructing your current "balance". It was not something that fell out of the sky. Any leveling off of responsibilities or rebalancing came from you reacting to her. You may have been reacting to inertia or her well thought out plans but reacting nonetheless.

She will fight like a bulldog as you try to assert your influence in the relationship. She loves the status quo, she created it this way. I am way over a year ahead of you on this and have read all the books, in the right order. It will take you a while and lots of conflict and confrontation to unravel this. That is the process so don't shrink from it. It will feel like personal growth...and it is.


----------



## humanbecoming (Mar 14, 2012)

Ouch. Reading your response to me, OP, you have a very selfish wife. As stated above, any change you make is not going to go over well.


----------



## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

How do all these 'one sided relationships' in favor of the wife happen? What changes, all of a sudden, to make you men want to alphacize yourselves? In all honesty, some of you create your own monsters, and then decide you don't like it anymore...so just don't do it in the first place.


----------



## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

We all create our own monsters. They don't exactly teach these things in marriage preparation classes. My father never taught it to me. Catholic school taught me how to treat girls. Being a nice guy always seemed to be pleasing to the women in orbit around me.

For myself I know it was a lifetime of pick your battles, keep her happy, no reason to ruffle feathers. She pulled this all away from me and I authorized it. 

This knowledge is not easy to own. My life experience helps me to validate it as it would have been hard to accept when I was younger. You have to be ready to open your eyes. It takes an act of forcing them open even though what you see is blinding.


----------



## NEM (Jul 13, 2012)

The situations is this, I started to do half the work I used to do around the house and left something for her to do. I started to go out with friends more and came home a little later than usual. I still do things as usual with my son and other stuffs. Basically I am adding more positive alpha, not negative.

A couple of nights ago I raised my concern about her not doing her part around the house, we had arguments and I didn't let a lot of things go like I used to. The following day she seem to do a little more around the house but we still haven't make up yet, but she seem to show a little caring, but we still didn't talk much.


----------



## NEM (Jul 13, 2012)

betta said:


> You know, I have to agree with Deejo on this point. A one-sided relationship, in my experience, stays one-sided without a ton of work on your part. If you want her to be involved and responsible, it's going to take a lot of time, and a lot of hassle.
> 
> From what you've said, I don't think she respects or accepts you as a person, but rather as a wallet and a maid she screws sometimes. That, of course, is only my opinion.
> 
> ...


Very sharp there. She's the only child. She is still the one taking care of our son, not the grandparents.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

NEM said:


> BTW, we are not living with her parents, we live close by, so her mother prepares dinner and she will pick it up after her long day do nothing but go to the yoga class, hair salon, facial, etc. pampering herself and going to classes.
> 
> The past 3 months our housekeeper quit and I became the person doing most of the housework.


 You are betaing your way toward having a wayward wife.


----------



## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

My thoughts... You have a spoiled, entitled princess who's been enabled in her life by her parents first and now you. Getting her to change is a long range goal. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

AFEH said:


> And along you come with your new Alpha hat on wanting to upset the apple cart and change her such that she does her share of the work! I don't see that you have any chance of that at all. If I were you I’d be thinking “I have absolutely no chance of changing this. So this is it for as long as I stay married to her”.


 It sounds like she doesn't work. I assume she's attending college? Assuming that, the FIRST thing I would do is say 'You know, I'm working 40+ hours a week, and it's not reasonable for me to do that AND the housework, while you stay at home. So, starting this week, we are going to sit down and work out a list of chores and who does what. (and I won't be doing more than 30% of them)"

Then STOP DOING THE HOUSEWORK.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

NEM said:


> The following day she seem to do a little more around the house but we still haven't make up yet, but she seem to show a little caring, but we still didn't talk much.


 That's called "Change Back! behavior." She is punishing you to get you to change back into the mouse/servant.

Your ONLY hope is to hold out and not let her manipulation get to you. Be happy as a clam. STOP doing the things she agreed to do. Let it pile up 5 feet high if you have to. She has to see that you DO have a backbone. Don't apologize, whatever you do. Make it a game; see how long she can go without speaking or sleeping with you - keep a grin on your face. Eventually she will burst and have it out again, where you can reiterate your new position. Remember, this is setting a precedent; if you back down, she owns MORE of you and it will be even harder to get anywhere the next time.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The best way to look at this is NOT how to change her. It's how to get YOU to establish what you will and won't do or accept - your boundaries (read Boundaries in Marriage by Cloud and Townsend). These are your line in the sand; if she crosses one (doesn't do her part, etc.), you have a consequence ready and waiting. 

Example: If she raises her voice to get you to back down, you hold up your hand and say "I deserve to not be yelled at and I won't tolerate it." If she yells anyway, you leave the room (your consequence). If she follows you to carry on, you leave the house (next level of consequence). If she lies in waiting for when you return, just so she can yell at you again, you pack a bag and go sleep in a hotel for the night (next level). If she does it again when you come back the next day, you pack a week's worth. And so on. 

See, you aren't making HER do anything - you are just showing her what YOU will do if she does ABC. She is then free to decide if she wants to keep doing this.


----------



## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

NEM said:


> The situations is this, I started to do half the work I used to do around the house and left something for her to do. I started to go out with friends more and came home a little later than usual. I still do things as usual with my son and other stuffs. Basically I am adding more positive alpha, not negative.
> 
> A couple of nights ago I raised my concern about her not doing her part around the house, we had arguments and I didn't let a lot of things go like I used to. The following day she seem to do a little more around the house but we still haven't make up yet, but she seem to show a little caring, but we still didn't talk much.


One of the single biggest things I learnt about change is that it takes a while for others to catch up with them.

What do I mean? Let’s say you want to make “Change A”. You’ve been contemplating it for a bit, reading books and visiting places like TAM. So now you are ready to “implement” your change and you go ahead and do it.

All well and good? Well that’s a yes and no. What you need to learn to do is to give your wife time to adjust to the new you, NEM+ChangeA. If all’s good your wife, as she seems to be doing, will adjust to the new you. The big thing is to give her time and some patience and tolerance.


A thing to consider is that we have “models” of other people in our mind, most especially those we know intimately. So in her mind your wife has a fully working model of NEM. And believe me she will at times be literally interacting with that model of NEM instead of the model of NEM+ChangeA even though you are standing right there in front of her.

It will take time for her mindful model of you to become NEM+ChangeA.


Change takes time and the above is one of the reasons why. Some of us actually leave our marriage because our wives keep reverting to the model they had in their minds some ten or 20 years previously and in this way they inhibit our growth.


----------



## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

NEM, it’s a very big thing, what you are doing. In essence your are changing your core values and beliefs, the rules you live your life by and the boundaries you put around yourself.

I think you’ll find that at first it’ll be one step forward and two steps back, but with patience and tolerance and if you can muster it a sense of “lightness and humour” you’ll turn it around to two steps forward and one step backwards.


I highly recommend to you two books. First is Awareness: The Perils and Opportunities of Reality: Anthony De Mello, J. Francis Stroud: 9780385249379: Amazon.com: Books. The author will help you detach from your ego such that you really get to see the reality of what’s happening around wrt your wife.

The second is Hold on to Your NUTs: The Relationship Manual for Men: Wayne M. Levine: 9780979054402: Amazon.com: Books. 

From my hard won experience I would say stop all your changes until you have read the latter book and the book Turnera recommended.


Why? You are attempting to make big and deep changes to the dynamics within your marriage, without knowing about boundaries and how to implement them effectively it’s analogous to taking over the flight deck of a 747 in an emergency without any training. Believe me things can go very wrong indeed.


----------



## Saki (Dec 7, 2011)

My very first thought when reading the title of this thread, and I believe it still applies given the discussion of the thread, is this:

Who cares what the response from your spouse is????

If you truly exhibit healthy, non-co dependant behavior, you will do what you feel is right and who gives a flying f$#(*%* what your wife thinks!!!

If you ever really want to get "alpha", you have to genuinely not care what your wife thinks about you. This is what will keep you from being her "enabler".

It is also what will keep you strong and able to leave her ass when she goes wayward, which is absolutely where this is heading. 

On top of the other recommended readings, I'd say you might consider starting on the typical affair recovery reading now too. I suspect it will open your eyes to some things.


----------



## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

I'm going to have to agree with homebecoming (I should say I don't buy into the whole Alpha, Betta garbage... no one has given me measurable parameters for any of these traits). Your wife is a spoiled brat and anything you do to change your attitude toward some more aggressive stance is likely to be met with a great deal of resistance. It may not be in the cards for you but I for one would move as far away as I could from her parents. They don't sound like they are the sole problem, but they are certainly exacerbating the issues you are having with your wife. If you take on some of these so called alpha traits you may even meet some resistance from the in-laws. Good luck.


----------



## Chumpless (Oct 30, 2012)

AFEH said:


> ...because our wives keep reverting to the model they had in their minds some ten or 20 years previously and in this way they inhibit our growth.


Now ain't that the truth.


----------



## NEM (Jul 13, 2012)

It's been days now and I noticed that she is doing more day by day, but in terms of talking not much. We still communicate but only when it's something about our son. I can read her body language from last night she wanted something but I was reluctant to proceed because I fear that she is trying to lure me into her territory.

I was a man whom always believe that if you love someone, you should give your all not playing games with each other. But when the one you love take you for granted it really hurts.

There's a saying, the one that hurt you the most is the one you loved the most.

I am a very patient man so I can deal with this for a very long time until I get my point to her. I will continue to take care of myself a little more and do the things I like and less attention to her needs.


----------



## NEM (Jul 13, 2012)

AFEH said:


> NEM, it’s a very big thing, what you are doing. In essence your are changing your core values and beliefs, the rules you live your life by and the boundaries you put around yourself.
> 
> I think you’ll find that at first it’ll be one step forward and two steps back, but with patience and tolerance and if you can muster it a sense of “lightness and humour” you’ll turn it around to two steps forward and one step backwards.
> 
> ...



Thank you for your suggestions, I will take a read. I am making big changes because I know that I can and I am willing to risk this marriage. I know if I continue the marriage like before sooner or later it will end just like this. Why not take the initiative to deal with the problem now instead years down the road?


----------



## NEM (Jul 13, 2012)

drerio said:


> I'm going to have to agree with homebecoming (I should say I don't buy into the whole Alpha, Betta garbage... no one has given me measurable parameters for any of these traits). Your wife is a spoiled brat and anything you do to change your attitude toward some more aggressive stance is likely to be met with a great deal of resistance. It may not be in the cards for you but I for one would move as far away as I could from her parents. They don't sound like they are the sole problem, but they are certainly exacerbating the issues you are having with your wife. If you take on some of these so called alpha traits you may even meet some resistance from the in-laws. Good luck.


I am not worry about the in-laws anymore, I took my stance against them in the past regarding my son. So they know not to cross the boundaries anymore. It is now between her and I.


----------

