# You're supposed to be able to talk about anything... right?



## marriedguy2 (Jun 2, 2011)

Getting into a whole story would be too much, but after 4 years of marriage, and knowing each other 8 years, I feel like I can't talk to my wife about much without being judged. Of course, there are some safe topics, but those are generally pretty boring. 

Things that we potentially disagree on frequently bring about fights because she sees my contrary opinion as a lack of respect for her opinion. At the same time, things that I do that she disapproves of can I get a guilt trip for. As a result, I basically don't talk to her about my opinions on things and we just generally don't talk much.

She's a brilliant, beautiful woman, and I love her very much, but I don't know if I can stand being so isolated any longer. I can't imagine 20+ years of this.

I know I'm being one sided in the way I present this, but without any other info what do you think I should do? Is the right thing to do just to break her heart and leave? Is it possible to fix this (we've tried before)? Any concrete steps that you guys can give?

*Want to add: Frequently, my wife will admit she was wrong about getting upset at me and/or turning on the waterworks when she finds out something she doesn't like. However, this is just a loop of her doing it and apologizing, and it doesn't change the fact that it makes me feel like **** at the time.

On the one hand, I understand that it's her emotional nature. On the other, I don't understand why I have to put up with it (nor do I see how it can be changed if it's her nature). It'd be one thing if we could just drop it, but she keeps talking and baiting me until she feels satisfied in my answer, when I know the answer will start an argument and then end in an apology, that I don't want to start in the first place.*

PS - One more tidbit, we were separated for a year and during that time while I did miss her, I think my life was better overall because I felt I could be the person I am.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Only in fantasy land - real life - sucks, but you can't always say how you feel/what you mean - unless you have a spouse that is willing to hear it without going ape-sh$t.

I was like this for a while and my husband felt he couldn't talk to me as I would argue his POV instead of just accepting that it was different than mine.

He couldn't change my way of thinking.

It took me to realize that I was exactly the opposite of who I thought I was - I thought I was non-judgmental, loving, supportive and had his back. I wasn't - I was judgmental, *****y, and in it for me.

It took ME to realize that and make changes. No amount of complaining on his part did it until I could look into myself and recognize where I fell short - I kept looking outside of myself to fix all my problems.

Perhaps counseling is in order?


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Please read the Manning Up and nice guy sticky at the top of this forum.

You may not change her, but you may find yourself stronger and able to lose the "guilt" feelings you get.

Plus, lots of info on fitness testing in the men's forum. Seems like you get a lot.

Btw. Never feel guilty. This means your scared of your wife. You can love her, but never ever ever be scared of her. You need to find out what your boundaries are as a husband and a man, and being scared is a sure fire way of making sure you never stick up for those boundaries. Then, you find yourself as just a doormat for her emotional tirades.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

MG,

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html

This is what Alpha is talking about.

I was in your shoes. Applying these principles opened to the door to renewed romance and deep conversation for my wife and I.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

I used to turn on the waterworks and apologize too.

And that got old.

He quit reacting. When I turned on the waterworks, he just shut down and didn't care anymore.

That scared me into action.


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## marriedguy2 (Jun 2, 2011)

I've read through the fitness test a bit, here's the funny thing though. I feel like I win most of the battles, but I'm losing the war. I rarely give in to my wife when I don't want to do something. She knows she can't cajole me into agreement. She also knows she can't say what she wants and have me be apathetic to it. 

From her point of view, I'm too macho for her, but the truth is she doesn't see the fact that behind the scenes I try to take non-confrontational routes.

I'm never going to let her win an argument, but rather I avoid arguments which means not stating my opinions, not doing things I want to do. The strangest thing is, I don't even know what I want to do anymore. My life with her is such that I don't recognize myself not from the outside, but from the inside. I don't seem to want anything. When I moved away to a different city during separation I made friends, went out with friends and did whatever I wanted, now that we're together again I don't really even know where to start, I know I want to make friends but it seems like I can't be bothered.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

alphaomega said:


> Btw. Never feel guilty. This means your scared of your wife. _Posted via Mobile Device_


Or it means you think you're never wrong, or no one else's opinion matters or you have serious mental health issues


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## marriedguy2 (Jun 2, 2011)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> He quit reacting. When I turned on the waterworks, he just shut down and didn't care anymore.


I angry, and while I try to keep it inside, every now and then I'll have an outburst about how frustrating it is not to be able to talk because she can't talk about anything without getting all emotional about it.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

>>rather I avoid arguments which means not stating my opinions, not doing things I want to do. The strangest thing is, I don't even know what I want to do anymore<<

There it is.

Conflict avoidance.

BTW- making sure you "win" the argument simply means that both of you lose.

Learn the thermostat stuff and use EFFECTIVE communication with her. Quit talking to her like she's male.


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## marriedguy2 (Jun 2, 2011)

Conrad said:


> Quit talking to her like she's male.


Why can't she stop talking to me like a woman?
(I'm only trying to point of the irony of short quips like this because I'm not sure how helpful these kind of answers really are)


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

marriedguy2 said:


> Why can't she stop talking to me like a woman?
> (I'm only trying to point of the irony of short quips like this because I'm not sure how helpful these kind of answers really are)


From your own testimony, everything you've tried is failing.

Clearly, you have your own convictions and are not afraid to express them to her.

The results are disastrous.

How about listening to people that have walked in your shoes?

See - this type of talk is how you get a male's attention.

This does not work with a female intimate partner.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Are the matters you two "potentially disagree" on all that important (important enough to trash the marriage)? Everyone has opinions and there's no law that says she has to adopt yours or you her's. Major life decisions have to be agreed upon or compromised but all too often, big conflicts can arise out of pretty trivial matters. You can disagree with someone but still value them and admire their strength and conviction. I find debates with my wife to be quite stimulating and interesting. If we married partners who thought and believed exactly as we did, they wouldn't add a great deal to our lives. My wife has adopted some of my ideas and traits and I've adopted some of her's. Makes us each better, smarter, more well-rounded people.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Sometimes it not necessarily the things you are talking about, but the way you are doing the talking and the way you are doing the listening. I haven't had a problem so much with my H, but sure have had a hard time trying to learn how to communicate with my teen. Brush up on some your skills in this area - do some research on it: Communication Skills - How To Improve Your Communication Skills--And Relationships


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## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

Listen to conrad here. He knows what he is talking about.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

If it's a gender issue, try reading a book called "For Men Only". It's a little preachy, but the underlying principles of how to communicate to a woman are sound enough.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

She can talk about anything. And by anything, I mean, whatever the hell is ****ed up and broken and needs correction with you. Everything else is semi-negotiable.


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## marriedguy2 (Jun 2, 2011)

Runs like Dog said:


> She can talk about anything. And by anything, I mean, whatever the hell is ****ed up and broken and needs correction with you. Everything else is semi-negotiable.


I know I might have upset you with what I posted in the ladies lounge about crying. But is positing a theory that bad?

I don't know if this sort of response will help anything, except create a defensive argument. Can we start over or something?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

MG,
What is it you "do" that she doesn't like?

What is it you "chronically" argue about? 

Why is it that both of you cannot accept that in some areas there is room for 2 differing opinions? Unless it has to do with you believe in open marriages and she doesn't. Or unless it is you like to go to strip joints or frequently go out with the guys to pickup bars and get hammered - why is there so much tension over it?






marriedguy2 said:


> Getting into a whole story would be too much, but after 4 years of marriage, and knowing each other 8 years, I feel like I can't talk to my wife about much without being judged. Of course, there are some safe topics, but those are generally pretty boring.
> 
> Things that we potentially disagree on frequently bring about fights because she sees my contrary opinion as a lack of respect for her opinion. At the same time, things that I do that she disapproves of can I get a guilt trip for. As a result, I basically don't talk to her about my opinions on things and we just generally don't talk much.
> 
> ...


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

marriedguy2 said:


> I know I might have upset you with what I posted in the ladies lounge about crying. But is positing a theory that bad?
> 
> I don't know if this sort of response will help anything, except create a defensive argument. Can we start over or something?


Just tell RLD to b off, he'll chuckle at that!


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

marriedguy2 said:


> Getting into a whole story would be too much, but after 4 years of marriage, and knowing each other 8 years, I feel like I can't talk to my wife about much without being judged. Of course, there are some safe topics, but those are generally pretty boring.
> 
> Things that we potentially disagree on frequently bring about fights because she sees my contrary opinion as a lack of respect for her opinion. At the same time, things that I do that she disapproves of can I get a guilt trip for. As a result, I basically don't talk to her about my opinions on things and we just generally don't talk much.
> 
> ...


We put barriers up to protect ourselves and to prevent ourselves from being vulnerable. But we lose so much when we do that and it usually signals the end of our marriage. Predictable Patterns of Marriage Breakdown - Relationship Problems you may see your marriage in there.

Bob


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## GutterByrd (Apr 28, 2011)

You sound alot like how I think my H would sound. I too cry when I get stressed. & I also apologize but he only uses it against me later or acts/says I never apologize for "being snippy"; tho I do. He says "I'm just waiting to talk" & says I blame him for everything. He is often very arrogant & condescending in conversations & that leads to my snippy defense & then the argument about how we talk to each other. He assumes I mean that it's all his fault but I really do take some of the blame for getting snippy tho I feel hurt at the way he talks down to me. It never seems to change in the end b/c no matter what it seems like deep down who I really am is someone he doesn't know or at least someone he wishes where different. He says I will argue to be right but he changes the topic to how dumb something I said was & then says I'm missing the point. It's very hurtful & I just want to hide b/c I feel attacked. 
I have been trying very hard to give him the benefit of the doubt and take him at his word that he likes me & enjoys my company tho I'm still very insecure & have fears that he feels like I am not good enough. I don't know why I feel like this but perhaps if he complemented me honestly every now and then I would feel like he actually liked me. I always tell him how cute he is & how much I appreciate how hard he works but I just don't think he cares about me. He acts bored by me now... & the reason I was so in love with him the moment we met was b/c he was so reactive to me; he blushed, smiled & did silly innocent things that made me try & draw out his cheeky sexual side. But now... I get told all the time to "stop being a wuss" when he thinks I haven't taken a 'joke' correctly. He treats me harshly & I am very feminine & find comfort in being treated as such by my man but he says I get "butt hurt too easy". 
We can only see our differences when measured by them... & while we are equal we are not the same in every way. The scale is balanced but by different attributes & I love him for being a man & the fact that he wants me to "man up" makes me feel like the me I am isn't the me he wants. In fact it makes me feel like I'm just a tool for sex like he thinks of all our differences as purely physical which devalues my femininity. 
I have issues with trust & I know it can be draining to try & make me feel like he really only wants to be with me & I think he may have stopped trying aside from his just saying it when I ask... Or maybe he is like you and is on the brink of giving up b/c he doesn't kno how to fix me & my insecureness / the communication. I want to be happy & for my husband to be happy & if he comes to the conclusion that he is unhappy with me then maybe we should have never gotten married. Tho I think that would be a selfish conclusion b/c love is supposed to be making the effort everyday to make the one you are with love you. For that reason I've figured out that I needed therapy b/c I'm really depressed & feel bad for not being more lovable as backwards as that sounds but I don't love me so its hard to understand at all really.
I swear if my husband where to act half as in love with me as I act to him or try to get me to "fall in love" with him regularly we might get somewhere. But rather I know when he is actually back home from work he will want to 'relax' & I'll shut down for fear of disappointing him & only talk about the things that won't cause him any stress & put on a happy face. & for all my trying to see to his happiness I am sad & he will still seem unsatisfied. 
It seems to me her "baiting you" may be her attempt at getting to a compromise or draw out of you something she feels she is being deprived of. & maybe when she apologizes she is trying to make peace & give back to you so it is for both of your gain. The system of communication is what needs to change... you will break her heart more if you hate her & stay than if you love her & tell her so & let her go. In a serious relationship when you act a certain way you will typically get the same response so if you ask yourself "am I good enough to be her husband?" the answer should hopefully be "I hope so." not "yes" & def not "no"... we can always be better. & doing things that make us feel good & doing things you know will make her feel good about you are important. & don't assume you know anything about each other... we can never know someone implicitly but full honest disclosure about everything is best in my opinion b/c at least then we can try.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

marriedguy2 said:


> I know I might have upset you with what I posted in the ladies lounge about crying. But is positing a theory that bad?
> 
> I don't know if this sort of response will help anything, except create a defensive argument. Can we start over or something?


It's just that I've discovered that people who open with "Can I be totally honest with you....?" rarely if ever want to hear that from anyone else.


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## Duke (May 15, 2011)

Runs like Dog said:


> It's just that I've discovered that people who open with "Can I be totally honest with you....?" rarely if ever want to hear that from anyone else.


If someone asks a question this way does that mean they're lying the rest of the time? I expect honesty all the time.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Duke said:


> If someone asks a question this way does that mean they're lying the rest of the time? I expect honesty all the time.


No, it usually means you're going to hear something you don't want to, like you smell, or are actually hopeless at something you think you're good at. Whilst an expectation of honesty is no bad thing, these are the sorts of conversations the make you question that expactation:rofl:


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