# Close to a mental breakdown



## sherri1997 (Jul 9, 2013)

I don't think that I can handle much more. I would have never thought my life would be here.

I have posted before and I don't really feel like my stbxh is a WAH ... he didn't leave me for this other woman that he had a EA with. When I found out, I gave him a chance to tell me the truth on everything that happen and he lied so he moved in with a friend while we worked on our marriage. He tried to show me that he wanted to work on our family but he blamed me for the reason why he spent 8 months of his life with another woman. Everything in our marriage was my fault. We had been in counseling before I found out about the affair and we tried to continue counseling but he would never respond to it and would continue to blame me. 

Fast forward to June, this all happen in Nov. He moved into an apt and said he gave up on me and our marriage b/c I wouldn't forgive him. Along the way, he lied to me about several things and I took them all in and still tried to work on our marriage. I didn't make it easy for him. I set boundaries with him that we talked about in counseling and I stuck to them. I didn't allow him to blame me for everything and I held him accountable for his actions. I wanted him to tell me the truth with each lie that I found out and he never did. So, he gave up on me and now wants a divorce.

I never thought this would happen and it has killed me. I could have forgiven him for the affair and moved on to make our marriage better but b/c he says I was stubborn and wouldn't forgive him in 5 months after 8 months of an affair, he gave up on me. THen I just found out this past week that he has had sexual encounters with other woman and of course he still denies it. He even denies having any relationship with this other woman and tells me that I have made it all up in my head and I have no proof.

I have been working on my anger issues over all of this but I have so many issues that overwhelm me all day long. I feel useless, hopeless, unloved, ect. I have been through a lot in my life and I have always been viewed as such a strong independent person but I am breaking right now. I don't know how much more I can take.

We have two small children and have been trying to decide on child support without going through lawyers. I have worked part-time since we had our daughter 5 years ago but I make really good money b/c of my bonuses but my bonuses aren't guaranteed so a lawyer I consulted said that they would take the last 5 years of my W2 and average them out. I have been working full-time or trying to since we split in Nov and that has meant working 6 days a week and missing time out with my kids. Which I don't mind at all b/c it is for my kids. I hope to go full-time at some point, but I don't know when that will be.

So we are trying a mediator this week and I don't know how I am going to make it through it? I talked with him today and he again told me that I was making up this other woman. He told me that he would lie about his income b/c he manages at a restaurant and also makes cash tips b/c he bartends 4 days a week. He said he will say that the cash deposits are from something else. He tells me that if I go to a lawyer that I will regret it for the rest of my life b/c at some point, I will need him and he won't ever help me. He tells me that he just wants to be able to support our kids the same way that he does.

I have tried to work with him through everything for this and come up with an agreement but all the amounts that I have told him, he fights with me about it. He won't give me the time needed to refinance the house, but I think that he will work with me on that b/c he knows since I work from home that I will move about 50 miles from here to where my family is if I sell the house. 

It is just all falling down on me and I am trying to stay standing but I am so tired of it all. I am tired of feeling like I am failing at everything. I feel like I have lost everyone that I love and trusted b/c he was my family and his family was my family. I lost my mom when I was 16 and then my dad just basically ended our relationship b/c he tried to make sexual advances on me. As I am typing this all I am just dumbfounded. 

I know I have to be positive and strong for my kids but I don't know how much longer I can fake it until I make it. I have great friends but you know how they sort of drift away when they don't know how to help you and this has been going on for so long in their eyes and I should be over it by now. I have the stress of a possible lawyer with money that I don't have. I have him threatening that he will make it so difficult for me if we go to a lawyer. I have stress about going through this mediator session on Friday. I am just to my breaking point and I don't know where to go except for here b/c you guys get when you get to this point. I still go to counseling but I don't feel like it helps much anymore b/c it is the same thing over and over. He knows my stbxh and he knows that he is a manipulator so we just talk about what could come next and how I can deal with it but I always let my anger get the best of me and then my stbxh tells me that I need to let go of this anger. He doesn't want to pay me what the state recommends for child support and that isn't accounting for what he makes in cash tips -- just what he makes on paper. If I could do this without his help, I would but I can't ... at least not yet. I don't know what to do .. help me please.


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## motherofone (Jan 10, 2013)

Wow have I heard this script before. Get a lawyer. Trust me it will be the best for yourself and your children to make sure you get a fair deal.

Also, go to counseling for you. Don't take him anymore. He cannot accept responsibility for his choices and until he does you are just flushing money. 

I have a hunch- read up on Passive Aggressive and Narcissism and see if it hits to close to home.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Sherri,

That is so horrible. You are going through one of the worst things in life, and you sound so very alone.

I haven't been in your shoes. So, I probably do not have much advice on your specific situation. But, nevertheless, a few things come to mind.

First, it will get better. When one is in the midst of some horrible like this, it can seem hopeless and too much to bear. But, we usually can get through them. Just don't give up, and know you are doing as good as anyone could trudging through this situation. It's ok to feel like you are breaking down; maybe you should give yourself permission to do so, temporarily.

Second, he is the worst legal advisor you could possibly have. I would probably make a list if concerns you have about is demands so far, and read them to the mediator. 1 - threatening you if you get a lawyer, 2 - cheating on the income declaration (he is also probably cheating on his tax returns), 3 - his intention to get you to agree to less than the state guidelines.

I would directly ask the mediator that, "Given these concerns, do you really think it is in my interest and my children's interest to not get a lawyer? Do you think mediation can be fair?"

You can get a lawyer even if you mediate. You do not have to mediate. I would ask a lawyer the same questions.

He is mentally manipulating you regarding mediation and child support issues. He is doing the same about the affairs. When you feel distress about how he is trying to control the outcomes, let that distress alert you to the possibility you are being snookered.

Probably won't help, but from here it seems you are lucky getting to reduce his interference with your life and happiness by divorcing him now. Could be the best thing to ever happen to you, as there is very likely much more, including joy and love, once you get through this. But, yes, it's expected to be incredibly rough for awhile.

I don't know how much you have read around hear. His "arguments" about his affairs etc are par for the course, best I can tell. Please spend some time reading in the Coping With Infidelity sub forum, and maybe post a thread there. I am worried he is pulling the wool over your eyes, and it is hurting you -- and, understanding the cheater's script/tactics is something that can help you maintain your sanity.


Do take care of yourself. I think you will find folks here that you have unfortunate things in common, and hope you will feel less alone.

Wishing you strength, and compassion for yourself in this most difficult of times.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Come on Sherri - I've stuck with you since you started posting, I know you are stronger than this.

You need to stop letting him get to you. You need to break off all contact with him, he's playing mind games, he knows how to push your buttons.

Stop trying to deal with him yourself and let your lawyer take over. He has to give you everything you are entitled to and nothing less.

I understand what your saying about friends, that's why this place is a godsend for me. I have found some great supportive people here who understand what I am going through. I don't know where I'd be without them. We are here for you too. 

Sherri, you will get through this. Don't let your stbxh win!!


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Sherri, It does not sound like your situation is suited for mediation. That really only works when the parties are getting along, non-abusive and have relatively minor disagreements-none of which apply to your situation.
Try to remember he is not being truthful. Then try to remember who cares what he threatens since he is NOT the party that gets to decide. A judge does that. You do not have to accept his threats, his intimidation, or his lies.
Go get an attorney, ask for a free consultation to determine if you want to hire the attorney. Heck, go to three of four to decide. You do not have to accept his scraps of a settlement.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Pluto2 said:


> Sherri, It does not sound like your situation is suited for mediation. That really only works when the parties are getting along, non-abusive and have relatively minor disagreements-none of which apply to your situation.
> Try to remember he is not being truthful. Then try to remember who cares what he threatens since he is NOT the party that gets to decide. A judge does that. You do not have to accept his threats, his intimidation, or his lies.
> Go get an attorney, ask for a free consultation to determine if you want to hire the attorney. Heck, go to three of four to decide. You do not have to accept his scraps of a settlement.


:iagree::iagree:


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

I would make sure your lawyer understands he has under-reported his income. He should pay MORE than the state guidelines if his W2's do not reflect his actual income.

He does not want you to get a lawyer because a good one would put an end to his ability to manipulate you into accepting less than the law, and morality, entitles you to.

You are too close to the situation to be your own advocate. Please find a way to hire a good lawyer.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Hi Sherri -- I'm so, so sorry that you are going through this. The first thing I would do is echo what Pluto said -- your situation is not one for mediation. My situation was not as bad as yours, as my ex was not as openly threatening, but he was emotionally abusive, and had multiple EAs that he wouldn't admit to (among other stuff, but I'm cutting it short here  ). I spoke to someone who actually teaches at our local law school and he was the first person who clued me in that mediation is NOT recommended where one partner is afraid of the other. The mediator is not there to help either party, so any power inequality in the relationship carries right into the mediation. That was enough for me to get a lawyer. I had to borrow the money from family, and my ex never did get a lawyer (he's narcissistic and forever sees himself as a 'great guy' and a victim), but I needed to make sure I took care of things correctly and in the best interests of myself and our son. Yes it was about $3000 all told, but it was worth it. The lawyer can subpoena bank records if necessary, and will get statements from where he bartends and manages, too, if necessary to prove his income. Most states look very unkindly towards parents trying to hide income in order to pay less child support. 

Sherri -- another thing I would definitely recommend in addition to counseling is a domestic abuse support group. You are married to an abuser, and you have said that your counselor isn't really helping. Call the local United Way in your area and ask them to help you locate a group that helps abused women in your area. Mine is through our YWCA and they have been a godsend. Not only because the group has helped me with dealing with the abuse, but it has also connected me with other women at a time when I was very isolated, and didn't have anyone who really understood. I've been going to mine for nearly two years, and have made some great friends through it, too. I think something like that might really help you. Also, ask the folks at United Way if they know of any legal aid organizations or anything like that were you can get help finding a lawyer. There are lawyers who will take cases pro bono where there is abuse involved or financial need. Most lawyers will do a free consultation, so take advantage of that, too. I went to or called a few lawyers just to find out what my options were. One thing I'd ask right away is what your state's laws are on recording someone. If you can record his phone calls or his speaking to you, do it -- there are little voice-activated recorders that you can get. If you search here on TAM, you'll find information on good ones and how to use them. Having recordings of his threats and how he plans to lie about his income might come in very handy in a divorce case. I'm serious about this -- this is about protecting yourself.

Don't give up, whatever you do. You have options. It's totally understandable that you're feeling overwhelmed right now. But you can make it through this. 

It's really important that you do what SSteps said and start to detach from him. Limit your contact with him as much as possible. Save any emails and texts that you get from him. Ask that he only contact you about matters to do with the divorce, and only by email. Go dark on him as much as you can. The constant contact with him is what's wearing you down, and that's the way he wants it. He wants you to give up. You've given up enough of yourself to him, Sherri. It's time to start taking that control back. He won't like it, but you know what? Who cares! He's a monster. Don't take this anymore. 

Keep posting on here, Sherri, and keep hanging in there. You have options, and there's reason for hope. Don't give up. ((hugs))


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Don't disappear on us Sherri. Angel gave you some great advice. We're all here for you. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Sherri -- How are you doing, sweetie?


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## Clawed (May 21, 2013)

Most of what I would have wanted to say was covered by Angel. Great advice there!

You will absolutely get through this. I understand it looks pretty bleak right now, but every day that you make it through you are one day closer to the end. And *the end is where we begin*.

I can relate to much of the feelings of lonliness. My STBXs family was my family. Unfortunately, I sacrificed time with my family because I put my wife's needs over my own. Not only that, but I had no friends of my own. It's really hard to make it through sometimes when you feel totally alone and abandoned. It's good to hear you have some friends that are at least a little supportive. I'm glad you feel comfortable here as well to get some advice and because there are so many of us that are going through or have made it through and lived to tell about it.

Sending prayers your way. Remember to take care of yourself in addition to your kids. They need a strong you more than they ever have before!


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Sherri, how's it going over there?


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## sherri1997 (Jul 9, 2013)

THank-you so much everyone. I have leaned on your words all day. I just had about an hour long talk with him and I am just floored. He keeps saying he knows that I am hurting and he doesn't want me to hurt. He was telling me how happy he wants me to be b/c he is there now and insinuated that it was b/c he was already dating someone else and that she made him happy. He told me that this shouldn't be about my feelings of anger about him and about us but solely about the kids and what is in their best interest. 

I am re-reading everyone's advice until I believe it all myself. I guess when you are going through this, you can't see it from an outsiders point of view and it is like I am reading it and understanding it but can't place myself in the picture .. does that make any sense? I know what everyone is saying is true but I just can't believe that this is who he is now. But yet, he makes me feel like he gave up on me b/c of me and that there is something wrong with me. And he is seeing someone else already so maybe he is in a fog now but he kept telling me that I have to get it through my head that we are done. How did it go from what he did to him deciding that we are done bc I wouldn't forgive him on his terms?

I am still here and hanging on. I have my kids and I can't fall apart on them. I can't tell you how thankful I am that you all took time out to talk to me and give me advice and I am going to take it. I will go talk to a lawyer before our mediation appt and then after that appt, I will take it back to my lawyer. 

Thank-you again.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

thanks for checking in, Sherri. I'm truly sorry that you have to deal with this crap that he's giving you. He's a very manipulative man, and he's using all the tricks. Pardon my French, but this one is known as mindfvcking (even my IC calls it that, lol). He is twisting reality around and changing history and then feeding it back to you and getting upset when you won't buy it. He is blameshifting: it's not his cheating that caused this, it's your not forgiving his cheating. He will keep twisting and twisting just so he doesn't have to take responsibility for any of this.

But YOU KNOW THE TRUTH -- and don't forget it. If you have to, come back on here and read your other thread. You wrote that; it really happened. Any of us who've dealt with emotional abuse have lived through these techniques: the history changing, the blameshifting, the gaslighting. Trust yourself. This is not your fault.
From what you've written, he did nothing that a truly remorseful, repentant husband would do after an affair. You don't owe him anything. He should be begging forgiveness and for another chance to do *whatever it takes* to *earn* back your trust. Not only did he NOT do any of this, he tried to turn it all around and blame you. This is emotional abuse on top of cheating. 

Please stick with us. We'll help keep your head straight. I'm glad to see that you're still speaking with your lawyer.

Please look into some help for abused women, too. It would be good if you could find an advocate or an IC who has experience with emotional abuse. 


Don't listen to anything he says about wanting you to be happy. It's another back-handed way of hurting you. Don't speak to him about anything. That way, you won't have to be hearing this crap.

Hugs, Sherri. Hang in there. We're all here for you.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Sherri, don't listen to him. He's just playing games. Mine fed me the same lines, "you will find someone better than me" "I just want us all to be happy" I mean for someone who always sounded like a explosive 18 year old when he spoke he suddenly sounded like Ghandi. Like he was enlightened or something. Phuleeze!! 

Don't let him make you feel it was your fault. You know deep down that's not the case. He's doing that because he doesn't want any of the blame. It's always easier for people like that to blame things that happen to them on someone else. It's never their fault. EVER! It's just the way their minds work. You know the truth though.

Look, mine when he told me flat out said he was leaving me, he loved me but he wasn't happy, there was no chance for us ( he refused MC) and he found someone else. I had never been so blindsided in all my life. My parents splitting up didn't hit me that hard. I walked around for three months in a state of disbelief but you know what, as time has gone on I've accepted it for what it is. He's a broken, damaged man who lives in his own world. You will start to see that too BUT part of being able to come to that realization is to have as little contact with him as possible. In your case, only about the kids and preferably limit it to texts and emails.

From what you have said here he knows how to get to you. Don't let him. No contact will take care of that.

I'm glad to see you are staying strong for your kids. Hang in there and stick with us. We'll help get you through it.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

Hang in there Sherri. I've been there and still am to a point. Get a good attorney who practices family law exclusively. My attorney is always there for me and is the one person I can count on. My estranged husband plays all these mind games too. However, my attorney is the voice of reality.


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## Clawed (May 21, 2013)

Wow, I think I might be getting just as much out of this thread as Sherri 

I am right there with you in all of this. I know that it is hard, but Angels and Smallsteps advice about not talking to him is spot on. Limit your communication to speaking only about the kids. Personally, as a guy, I want to fix things, so this was really hard for me - to sit back and watch everything fall apart around me when I still wanted to make things work. The moment I started to cut our communication, it was much easier to detach myself emotionally. Which, believe it or not, is something you need to do at this point. He is being pretty damn heartless and he knows he can continue to hurt you because you are still emotionally invested in the relationship. Do not let him have this control. You are much stronger than you realize. 

- as I was typing this... I was just served divorce papers at work... ugh... -

See, as I was saying, as much for me as for you. You will get through this... keep your chin up


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

You both will. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Hey Sherri,
It's been a few days. How are you doing?


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Sherri, are you OK? Please check in and let us know.


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## sherri1997 (Jul 9, 2013)

Hello everyone. Yes, I am ok. I am sorry, I haven't been at work much since Wed so I haven't been able to take the time to sit down and talk. After talking with my lawyer, she advised me to try the mediator session and it went nowhere.

We spent $400 and it was a complete waste of money. I had all my files and everything for my lawyer and she looked through them and said that I had everything that I needed to show J (what I will call my STBH from now), We got to the session and I was ok. I had a bit of an anxiety attack before I got there but a good friend of mine taught me how to breath through those, so I was fine when we went in.

At first, all was ok. We talked about incomes, which of course he lied about and then I showed everything I had. We talked about the things that we agreed on and that didn't need to be addressed and then we got into what he should be paying and all hell broke loose. 

I expected this and stayed calm but then he got emotional and that hit me hard. He got emotional b/c he thinks he can't make it or wants to pretend that he can't and he is full of crap.

But needless to say, it got me emotional. I got up and went to the bathroom to get it out and came back in. We went over the numbers again and showed J that he would have to pay this amount and he said he couldn't pay it with his other bills. We left the session, $400 down the drain with no compromise and nothing left.

When we got outside he tried to talk to me and I just payed on the grass and counted the clouds. I was in another world. I was pissed and sad and all different types of emotions. He was talking about the end of our marriage and all that I did to get us there but then taking the blame for it all. 

I got up and left without saying anything. I cried when I got into my truck and cried the rest of the day. All these unanswered questions and now we have to go to court and spend lots of money that I don't have in order for me to get what I need to get monthly. Of course, he has me thinking that this is all about money to me and is trying to work with me, blah, blah, blah.

So, Friday night, a friend came in from out of town and helped me through the weekend. I didn't contact him at all and he kept trying to reach out to me to talk about what negotiations we could make in order to get this all straight and not go through lawyers.

Then when I told him to only contact me via email, he went crazy and started calling me back to back and I wouldn't answer. He would text me and I wouldn't respond. He then emailed me his proposal and I told him no way on what he was asking me to allow. He kept emailing me and saying all sorts of things about what he now wants out of the house and what he will bring up in court to try and scare me but I didn't respond.

He had to come pick up our youngest on Sunday at the pool and I had my oldest with me and one of her good friends and I had told him via email that I would not discuss anything with him during this drop off and I would have avoided the drop off if I could have but didn't have anyway to get someone else to be there with my son.

So he gets there and immediately comes us to me and starts talking about why I cant agree to his terms. I am trying to get the kids into my truck and then trying to get my youngest off of me b/c he is crying b/c he doesn't want to go to daddy's. I get my son into J truck and then the other two kids into my truck. I go back up to the pool to get the rest of our stuff and come back out and J is standing there smoking while the kids are in the truck. He starts trying to talk to me again and wouldn't let me get into my truck.

It was horrible. He wasn't being mean or yelling he just wanted to talk. I didn't want to talk. I didn't have anything to say. I tell him that I can't accept his proposal and that his terms aren't acceptable at all. He asked me if I even understood what he was asking and I did and told him that. He basically wants to pay me a certain amount and not have me take over a bill. I would rather take over the bill and get it paid off quicker and still have him paying what he should be in child support. He didn't want to do that. And I am not willing to bend. So, I finally get around to my car and get in and he stands there with his hands on my window .. granted my kids are all here to witness this and tells me to talk to him. I roll my window down and tell him that there are kids in the truck and that we need to get home. He tries to talk to me some more and I told him that we are leaving. I start to back away and his arm hits my rearview mirror and it bends back and my daughter gets upset. I am trying to stay calm at this point and told my daughter, it was ok, that the window was made to move when his elbow hit it on accident. I was so angry.

He finally backed away and got into his truck and peeled out of the driveway but then realized that would be bad news b/c he had my son in his truck and calmed it down.

He called me when I got him and although I shouldn't have answered, I did b/c I was so pissed that he did all this in front of our kids. He tried again to get me to rationalize this proposal idea of his and I said no, we now go through lawyers and that is that.

So, this morning was my daughters first day of elementary school and that went ok considering we were both there. He came over to the house to get the rest of his things and gave me back my garage door opener and then left. We didn't talk about anything else.

So, it has been a rough few days for me and I have been beside myself on how things ended up here. How did 12 years end this way? I have to admit that I am very quick to throw daggers to him on what he doesn't have to offer another woman when I am angry and he hasn't really been doing that to me, except for the few times he has become very angry. He isn't all to blame for all of this as I have a choice on my words and I have not been making good ones b/c I want him to hurt as bad as I do.

But that stops now. He told me yesterday that I was saying mean things to him b/c deep down in my soul, I want him back. And the truth is, I want my old husband back, not this new one. So I had to think about that one for awhile and I have decided to start trying to better myself. This is easier said than done and I don't know if I am strong enough for it but time will tell.

As for the child support issues, we are going to court and I don't know if I am strong enough for all of that either or if I can afford it. I am just lost and confused.

I appreciate you guys checking in on me though, it really means a lot to me ... I am just not in a good place right now and trying to make it minute by minute.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

He isn't making this easy on you. He is playing mind games, he wants you to give in to his demands and smartly you are refusing to do so. He'll continue to try to wear you down but don't let him. It's not your fault this is landing up in court, that's on him. He could have settled it in mediation.

I'm sure you are exhausted from what you're going through with him. Just hang in there. Don't let him bully you into getting his way. You're stronger than that.

So glad you updated us on what is going on. Just remember we are here for you. Don't forget that.


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## sherri1997 (Jul 9, 2013)

Thanks for that smallsteps. He makes me feel bad b/c of our debt b/c I worked part-time and if he would have known our debt then he would have asked me to go back to work fulltime. But I talked to him about our debt and told him that I was working extra hours to get those paid down and he said we will always have debt and not to work extra hours.

I know what he is trying to do. He is trying to get his parents to pay off the debt, which they will do for his half and then stick me with the low child support amount. He is lying and he knows it and I won't allow it. I can stay strong through that but he scares me when he talks about me having to sell the house and everything b/c I don't want to have to move but at the end of the day, everything happens for a reason and I can only trust in whatever happens. So, if I have to sell, then I have to sell and we move. I will move back to my hometown and he will never see the kids .. even though it is only an hour away but it is where my family and friends are. His job doesn't allow for him to have the weekends off so he would never see the kids. I am making plans right now to get this house ready to go on the market by early summer next year just in case so that I can be prepared for whatever comes.

He is so quick to tell me how he gave up on me and I think that is the hardest part for me. I never gave up on him or our marriage. I don't know if someone else is involved or not b/c although he has said there might be, he has lied before about it. So, don't know if he is in the fog or not?? I am just tired of all these emotions and dont' know what to do with myself anymore?


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Geez, Sherri, that sucks that your lawyer had you go through the mediation session. I can imagine how stressful that was. My ex tried to tell me it was all about money for me, too. Still does. So what at this point. You know it's about getting free and getting what you need and deserve from him for starting over and taking care of your kids.

The change-offs are going to have to change. Good for you for trying to have them in a neutral place. Some towns are setting up places where parents can take kids for change-offs and one leaves before the other arrives. Do you have anything like that? It might be very helpful for you. Neither you nor the kids need his intimidation. They are too young to understand that you are not safe around him. 

And excellent job on getting him to email you!! :smthumbup: Save every email and text. Were you able to find out anything about recording his intimidation attempts? 

Boy, Sherri, reading about him just makes my blood boil, it really does! issed: issed: issed: Don't listen to a thing he says about why you're doing or saying anything. He doesn't know or care. He's only trying to manipulate you. There will be time for you to analyze your part in the relationship. Right now, though, he is the enemy, and that's what you need to remember. 

Stay strong, sweetie. Vent to us anytime you want, here or in PM. ((hugs))


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

You need to block out what he's saying to you. You know he has lied to you over and over again. He can't be trusted. You can't waste your energy trying to figure out if he's lying or not.

You are right, everything does happen for a reason. Even if you did have to move maybe it is better to be near your family and friends. Even better you'll be away from him and all his games. You'd live a peaceful life.

Don't let him make you feel guilty about the debt. Did he help run it up? 

Mine pulled something similar. In December he was starting a new job. I told him after the holidays I was going to start to look for a part time job to help cover expenses. He told me it wasn't necessary because his new job would free up his weekends to take on side jobs. He left January 2nd. ???

Just keep standing your ground Sherri. I have a feeling you and your kids are going to come out of this alright.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

SSteps is so right, Sherri. It's so, so, so hard to see it right now, but you will come out of this OK -- better than OK. 

When he is talking to you, especially about ANYTHING that concerns your relationship, mentally talk over him. Find yourself a couple of sayings or mantras and memorize them. When he starts going at you, just repeat them in your head over and over, and practice that breathing that your friend told you about. You stay more calm and will have an easier time staying on top of things. He knows he can throw you off kilter by bringing up things he knows you fear. 

Practice these things when you're not around him, like a warrior. I'm not being facetious -- this is a mind battle. 

You are a strong woman, Sherri, and he's a POS. You've got this.


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## sherri1997 (Jul 9, 2013)

Thanks so much angelpixie. It is so hard to get through all of this. I don't think that we have anything like that here. At this point, he has stopped calling and emailing. He has stated that he knows we are going to court now and how he didn't want it to get to this point ... whatever. 

I am trying not to think about anything outside of in the moment but that is hard to do. I leave for my work trip to NY on Sat and will be gone for 10 days ... it is work, but it is a break and I need it so bad from everything. I can curl up at the hotel after work and just focus on me or reading or whatever I want to do. I will not talk or communicate with him during this time. I will check on the kids when they are with my sister or my sitter.

When I get back, I will continue with the lawyer and go from there. I know this isn't all my fault but he is so good at making me feel that way. Just by telling me that he thinks deep down that I still want him .. are you kidding me? But his words got to me and that is what he was trying to do.

I guess I can't see the big picture right now b/c I am blinded by still loving this person that has changed right before my eyes. His side of the story is so different, I suppose and what he is telling everyone is different. But he knows, I hope, deep down that the words he is telling me is what he is really thinking of himself but it is hard to really believe that. 

I am just ready to stop feeling this way and can't wait to see some sort of light at the end of the tunnel.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Oh, I'm so glad to hear about your trip!!! That's the best thing that can happen right now! Yes, curl up in bed, soak in the pool (even better if there's a jacuzzi), just go window shopping...

Get him out of your mind and REEEEELLLLLAAAAAXXXXX!!!! You'll come back feeling refreshed and stronger. :smthumbup:


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

angelpixie said:


> When he is talking to you, especially about ANYTHING that concerns your relationship, mentally talk over him. Find yourself a couple of sayings or mantras and memorize them. When he starts going at you, just repeat them in your head over and over, and practice that breathing that your friend told you about. You stay more calm and will have an easier time staying on top of things. He knows he can throw you off kilter by bringing up things he knows you fear.
> 
> Practice these things when you're not around him, like a warrior. I'm not being facetious -- this is a mind battle.
> 
> You are a strong woman, Sherri, and he's a POS. You've got this.


:iagree:


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## sherri1997 (Jul 9, 2013)

Thanks to both of you for being there... I don't know what i would do without this board. 

All I can do now is wait and try to heal myself. I am trying hard and reading a good book on how to move past a bad breakup. Doesn't deal a lot with married stuff but relates a lot to moving on to a better person. I want to be a better person and that is all I can do. I don't want another relationship .. I just want to focus on myself and the kids and that is all.

I say all of that and then I know I will still backtrack to all the negativity but I am going to try! Thanks again to both of you -- I really appreciate it!


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Sherri, I have a couple of books that helped me a lot when I moved away from my abusive ex (who was the one who ended the relationship, too). They've become some of my stand-by recommendations. Pretty cheap on Amazon, and often available in libraries, too.

The Verbally Abusive Relationship: How to recognize it and how to respond: Patricia Evans: 9781440504631: Amazon.com: Books

The Emotionally Abused Woman: Overcoming Destructive Patterns and Reclaiming Yourself: Beverly Engel: 9780449906446: Amazon.com: Books

There are others by Patricia Evans and Beverly Engel that are also very good, but those are the two I'd start with. 

For getting over a bad break-up, another good one is:

Rebuilding: When Your Relationship Ends, 3rd Edition (Rebuilding Books; For Divorce and Beyond): Bruce Fisher: 9781886230699: Amazon.com: Books


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

sherri1997 said:


> Thanks to both of you for being there... I don't know what i would do without this board.
> 
> All I can do now is wait and try to heal myself. I am trying hard and reading a good book on how to move past a bad breakup. Doesn't deal a lot with married stuff but relates a lot to moving on to a better person. I want to be a better person and that is all I can do. I don't want another relationship .. I just want to focus on myself and the kids and that is all.
> 
> I say all of that and then I know I will still backtrack to all the negativity but I am going to try! Thanks again to both of you -- I really appreciate it!


Anytime Sherri. ((hugs)) We're here for you.

That's all you need to concern yourself with now. Healing yourself and becoming a better person.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

smallsteps said:


> Anytime Sherri. ((hugs)) We're here for you.
> 
> That's all you need to concern yourself with now. Healing yourself and becoming a better person.


Amen.


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## sherri1997 (Jul 9, 2013)

How do you get stronger when you don't have the strength to do it? I read about it, hear about how to do it but I just can't get myself motivated to do it?

When I first found out about the EA, I was ready to have him leave. NOw, I think that he has got me thinking that I made a bigger deal of everything than it was. He tells me that he made the decision to give up on me b/c I took it all the wrong way and that he knew it would never be the same. I know, that in reality that this is him and his own demons but I take it to heart. I question if I did something wrong?

I don't know? I came on here b/c I want to be strong, I can see myself being strong, I just can't get there. Everyone tells me that i am the strongest person they know but I just hate all of this. I think it is the control of the situation or the questions of how he can just let me go?


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Getting stronger happens a little bit every day. As you go through this and come out standing after each of these little battles with him you gain a little more strength.

There are going to be days you do not feel strong at all but it doesn't mean you aren't. You are just having a bad day and you are entitled to that. 

Your doubts about everything are stemming from him playing mind games with you. He repeats the same mantra over and over to you. He made the decision to leave because you wouldn't believe him and things would never be the same. That is such nonsense!!! It more that you got wise to what he was up to and he couldn't pull the wool over your eyes anymore. He decided to leave because he wasn't going to be able to get away with what he was doing anymore.

He's blame shifting. It's easier to blame you instead of taking responsibility for what he did.

In his world, if you didn't call him out on what he was doing, he would still be living at home and carrying on behind your back. You ruined his perfect little deceitful life. How dare you?

When you think of it that way it changes things doesn't it?


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

sherri1997 said:


> How do you get stronger when you don't have the strength to do it? I read about it, hear about how to do it but I just can't get myself motivated to do it?
> 
> When I first found out about the EA, I was ready to have him leave. NOw, I think that he has got me thinking that I made a bigger deal of everything than it was. He tells me that he made the decision to give up on me b/c I took it all the wrong way and that he knew it would never be the same. I know, that in reality that this is him and his own demons but I take it to heart. I question if I did something wrong?
> 
> I don't know? I came on here b/c I want to be strong, I can see myself being strong, I just can't get there. Everyone tells me that i am the strongest person they know but I just hate all of this. I think it is the control of the situation or the questions of how he can just let me go?


Sherri,
IMO, he is engaging in emotionally abusive behavior. He is minimizing your reaction to his behavior. He is blaming you for the fallout of his conduct. He is refusing to take responsibility. He lied and betrayed your vows and doesn't have the honor to own it.
Just recognize this for what it is.
I totally agree with the others about continuing the breathing. Set aside 10 or 15 minutes a day to try some focused breathing and help clear your mind. That short period of "free mind time" can help you focus the rest of your day. You will have clarity for the painful decisions that are ahead. I try to do it in the evening so I can get some sleep without worrying all night.
Have a great trip!
Hugs


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Sherri -- Read the book "Not just Friends" by Shirley Glass. It's the best one regarding emotional affairs. My ex had multiple EAs -- and managed to gaslight me through each one that I was making too big of a deal about them. They are a form of infidelity, and you're reacting like anyone else who's been cheated on. 

And he is reacting like a typical emotional abuser who is also a cheater. He takes no responsibility, and is using the tactics of an abuser to push them on to you. That's why you're doubting yourself. I was in your exact place for years, and yes, it beats you down, little by little. You do doubt yourself. But you have no reason to.

If you can't talk to a counselor who specializes or has knowledge about emotional abuse, then read up on it. You'll get some strength knowing that how you feel and what you're thinking is totally normal and part of how the abuse and cheating affect many, if not most of the people who go through it.

Journal out what is happening. As you go back and see how you are dealing with things, you'll see how you're getting stronger as you employ the things you're reading and hearing about. It takes time, but each day you're moving away from him, you're getting stronger. 

I still encourage you to find a support group if you can. It really might help. ((hugs))


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

angelpixie said:


> Sherri -- Read the book "Not just Friends" by Shirley Glass. It's the best one regarding emotional affairs. My ex had multiple EAs -- and managed to gaslight me through each one that I was making too big of a deal about them. They are a form of infidelity, and you're reacting like anyone else who's been cheated on.
> 
> And he is reacting like a typical emotional abuser who is also a cheater. He takes no responsibility, and is using the tactics of an abuser to push them on to you. That's why you're doubting yourself. I was in your exact place for years, and yes, it beats you down, little by little. You do doubt yourself. But you have no reason to.
> 
> ...


:iagree:


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## sherri1997 (Jul 9, 2013)

Thank-you guys so much. I wanted to run something by you and see if I am taking what he is saying out of context. He asked me to send him another email about the proposal that he sent me and I am going to copy and paste what I wrote and then I will copy and paste what he sent back that I am not responding to. I want to see if this is what you guys are talking about with being emotionally abusive b/c I have never looked at it that way and have no clue on how to understand it. I appreciate the support and the advice and AngelPixie -- I am buying that book for my trip to NY, I appreciate the recommendation. 

Ok, so here is what I wrote to him about the proposal that he asked me send today:

*
First, I wanted to say that even if I have to sell the house, I can't take the kids away from you. I would love to move back to Charlotte but it's not in the best interests of our kids as you are an awesome dad and they deserve to always have you close. I will stay here for them.

I hate that the one thing we can't agree on is money. If I was going full time like I had planned then your proposal would be fine but I can't make it with what you are offering to pay. My bills are $1000 more than yours a month and you make more money than I do, even if I make top payout in bonus. But for months like this month, my bonus is only $400 and after taxes it is only like $200 bc bonuses are taxed at 40 percent. None of this matters but I wanted to let u know where I was.

I can do the $900, I will refinance the home within two years of the divorce and ill pay u for half of equity based on value at time of divorce versus back to nov 2012. I would like to remove you from insurance now as well.

I will take over half of the debt and will pay that off by the time I refinance the house into my name. I can't refinance my truck but I will try if I can get the house refinanced ok and able to refinance it. 

I can't go below $900 right now but we can revisit within a year. If I have extra then ill put into acct for kids activity costs and u can have access to that acct as well.

I really am trying to work with you on this and ready to stop fighting. I know neither of us mean the spiteful things we say to each other but we both agree to do what is in the best interest of our kids.

Let me know your thoughts.

Thanks,
*

Then this is what I get back from him:

_*I am trying to compromise with you .. I am not trying to screw you out of money .. do the math on this .. I am paying way over what I should be paying out in debt .. and while we are on that .. I need the balance for the citicards that is in my name b/c I can't seem to access it.

I am not doing this with you while I am working .. we can talk n person if you want this handled the right way .. otherwise we are going to completely waste 10k on lawyers and both get f*cked. $800 minus the $160 is a good assumption considering how much the numbers for income were both skewed in both directions .. and you have MY house and the most of what was purchased on debt .. I am being totally fair ... do the math ... put aside your feelings .. and look at it without being angry .. that isn't going to better this situation ... we both know our life together is over .. as hard as that is .. we shouldn't be making matter worse for either of us"*_

So, that was that and I haven't responded back. My main reasons are b/c my income numbers weren't skewed b/c my income is all claimed on my taxes and he isn't claiming his cash. And he threw in there that I am using my anger and feeling to control me and that isn't the case. I started out my message by saying I wouldn't move the kids away from him and that is putting my kids first and putting my feelings of continuing to live here if we have to sell the house aside. Then of course, he throws in there that our marriage is over again. So, is this me going overboard or do you really think that he is trying to be cordial? I know this doesn't give the whole picture, but it gives you some. He asked me to send the email to him and then he sends back to me that he can't do this at work?


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## motherofone (Jan 10, 2013)

Yeah mine claims he has been "amicable" all why cutting me off financially. :/ 

Pay attention to what they do and not what they say. 

I don't see anything to respond to him for from his last note. If the citicard is in his name then he can call them to get his access fixed. 

If you are going to end up in litigation I would be hesitant to write much at all.


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## sherri1997 (Jul 9, 2013)

Another thing that really upset me was the mention of HIS house ... this isn't his house anymore. He walked away from it. He says that all the time and it bothers me.

I agree .. if we are going to be in litigation and it makes me sick to my stomach to think about it, then no more writing. That is why I have decided not to respond. We aren't going to be able to be cordial about any of this. He has dropped the child support down 3 times and I think he is about to do it again.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

I agree. It's time for the lawyers to get involved. If he wasn't lying about his cash income (among LOTS of other issues), then the power lawyers have wouldn't be necessary. It's not up to him to decide how much he pays. There are guidelines that have to be followed. If your income is not set every month (i.e., the bonuses) then that can't be counted on, just as he doesn't want his cash counted on. This is about being fair. 

Yes, he is being manipulative, you're right -- he emailed you from work, then asked you not to email him a work. WTF? Crazy much? 

If the house is in joint ownership, it is not 'his.' If it is legally only his, you might have a problem. But depending on where you live and the length of your marriage, you mght even be able to do something in that case.

And no, his response definitely did not qualify as cordial. One thing I would say to you (and you may already be thinking this now) but I would refrain from anything resembling compliments or niceness when you write to him. Write it out first the way you want to, then go back and strip out anything emotional, and anything like telling him that he's a good dad, etc. Actually, treating you the way he does in front of his kids is NOT a good dad. Good parents don't do that. 


You're making a wise decision in no longer contacting him. :smthumbup:


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## sherri1997 (Jul 9, 2013)

angelpixie said:


> I agree. It's time for the lawyers to get involved. If he wasn't lying about his cash income (among LOTS of other issues), then the power lawyers have wouldn't be necessary. It's not up to him to decide how much he pays. There are guidelines that have to be followed. If your income is not set every month (i.e., the bonuses) then that can't be counted on, just as he doesn't want his cash counted on. This is about being fair.
> 
> Yes, he is being manipulative, you're right -- he emailed you from work, then asked you not to email him a work. WTF? Crazy much?
> 
> ...


THanks so much. I agree with you on the niceness, I am just naturally a nice person. I hate not being able to tell him the things that I am thinking but you are right, I need to take all emotions out of it and will do what you suggested from this point.

I, of course, have re-read his email over and over and it seems like it is cordial to me but is this way he wants me to see it?

The house and my truck are in both of our names. My goal is to refinance but b/c I have always been part-time and my bonus income isn't considered, I am going to have a hard time re-financing with just my income alone but I am going to try and see what I can do. I don't know about the laws in North Carolina but I think after you have been out of the house for a certain timeframe that you can't just come and go as you please. I just love how he always still refers to it as his house when it isn't anymore. My truck has two years left on it and we got it for 0% financing so I am trying to avoid having to refinance it and won't even attempt until I get the house refinanced. I am working on all of that right now by getting his debt removed from my credit reports which I hope will boost up my score to where I don't really need to provide much about income. I am not going to worry about that all right now though b/c worse case is that we have to sell and at this point, that no longer scares me. This house is filled with memories from our past, so if I have to sell, then I can start over with a new home and go from there with my kids.

Today has been a good day, despite his emails. I haven't responded and I don't intend to. I have to see him in the morning to drop off my son but I am going to workout with a friend afterwards, so it will be quick and I will not engage in any conversation with him. Then I don't have to see him again and I leave for NY on Sat and don't have to see him at all. This is a huge break for me and I am looking forward to it, even if it is work.

I just wanted to throw out there what he wrote and see if I was taking it too lightly or too harsh. My emotions, of course, are all over so I never know how to feel about anything anymore.


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## volley (Aug 24, 2013)

Sounds like your H is trying to bully you. Make sure you get a good lawyer b/c you and your kids deserve what you are entitled to. My STBXH thought our divorce was going to be on his terms and that we would just file everything together. Rude awakening for him, I had him served at his baseball game b/c he was too lazy to send the forms back on his own. My husband is still trying to make agreements with me before we go to court in 2 weeks. I have stopped communicating with him unless I absolutely have to which has been regarding our son and finances which most has been through texts. Do not let him threaten you or bully you into not looking out for yourself and your kids. Hang in there and keep your head up.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

In case you start to reverse or relax your decision to stop negotiating/discussing finances with him, please don't! Stand firm. If someday, you feel like you got too good of a settlement and he's living in a van down by the river (SNL reference), you can always cut him a check.

You noted your tendency to be nice with compliments. I dare say you would also be WAY too nice with money settlements, when in a neutral situation. BUT THIS IS FAR FROM NEUTRAL!!!!!!! He is doing his best to manipulate you. He is even willing to torture your kids emotionally to gain leverage on you. Disgusting.

Do not forget what seems likely the reason he wants to trade debt for reduced child support --so he can get mom and dad to pay for the debt, but he cannot get them to pay child support. If that is really the reason, any claim he makes about anything I would dismiss as another self-serving lie.

I have not been through divorce, and I know nothing at all about divorce in your state. But, I will say the that the justifications and trade-offs in your e-mail exchange --about why more or less money seemed necessary -- struck me as odd/unnecessary/misplaced. I really don't think there should be a burden on you to justify what is needed vs. anything else. They are his kids, his obligation to support. Judges have probably got a pretty good idea about how things should be paid based on decades and tens if thousands of cases. Don't feel like you have to sort it out for yourself; he will try very hard to make sure you give him more than he deserves.

Btw, are you making assumptions about debt and asset "ownership"? I'm pretty sure in my state, it does not matter whose name the card is in, or the deed or mortgage -- it usually martial property/obligations, shared 50/50, with some exceptions for what existed before marriage.

Finally, I question how wise your lawyer is, considering what folks here said about the ill-advisability of going through mediation. Even silly ol' me could see nothing good was going to come from that. $400?! Ouch! I'd really think hard about the quality of advice she is likely to give in the future.

Btw2, you seem to have a healthy mind and are going about this process making sure you get the info and support you need. You'll get through this. Don't be hard on yourself for how difficult it seems at times. It would be horribly difficult for anyone. It's going to take a long time, and hurt like hell at times. You are stronger than you know.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

I actually agree with PoSky about your lawyer's advise to try mediation, Sherri, but I was holding back. I think she should have known better. (I'm assuming you've told her that your STBXH is manipulative at best and abusive at worst, not to mention actively trying to hide earnings). 

Have you been able to find any advocacy groups in your area for abused women or those needing legal help?


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

sherri1997 said:


> Another thing that really upset me was the mention of HIS house ... this isn't his house anymore. He walked away from it. He says that all the time and it bothers me.
> 
> I agree .. if we are going to be in litigation and it makes me sick to my stomach to think about it, then no more writing. That is why I have decided not to respond. We aren't going to be able to be cordial about any of this. He has dropped the child support down 3 times and I think he is about to do it again.


You tried Sherri but he's not going to compromise. He'll just keep playing games hoping that you'll give in to what he wants.

Truth is I don't think he'll settle for anything else. It's his way or no way.

At this point let your lawyer take care of things.

Oh and as for referring to your house as his house? Mine can't bring himself to refer to our house as "my (meaning me) house". He doesn't refer to it as "his house" either or "the kids house". He refers to it as "the dog's house". :scratchhead:


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## sherri1997 (Jul 9, 2013)

I am so thankful to have woke up this morning and find such good advice on here, I spent the night tossing and turning. I appreciate your feedback and support Volley and Pieceofsky and sorry you are both here as well. I know you said you haven't been through a divorce PieceofSky and I appreicate you responding back to my posts and with great advice. Volley, I have read your story and I think I responded and I am so sorry you are here as well and glad you are getting the support you need for you and your son!


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## sherri1997 (Jul 9, 2013)

angelpixie said:


> I actually agree with PoSky about your lawyer's advise to try mediation, Sherri, but I was holding back. I think she should have known better. (I'm assuming you've told her that your STBXH is manipulative at best and abusive at worst, not to mention actively trying to hide earnings).
> 
> Have you been able to find any advocacy groups in your area for abused women or those needing legal help?


Funny you mention this b/c after my lawyer told me to try mediation, I have decided to try out a couple more lawyers. I got a lot of info last night before bed and I am going to make some calls this morning. I haven't looked at any of those groups yet b/c I am about to leave for 10 days but I will be starting a Divorce Care support group on 09/11/2013 when I get back and I am really thankful there is one in my area to go to and it is at my church.

I didn't respond back to J ... but I did get a random message last night asking how our daughter's second day of school was but I didn't respond. I have always responded to him about the small things and that stops as of last night. I have said this before as I was reading through my journal and I hope I can stay strong this time b/c it feels so much better to just not respond versus engaging in anything with him.


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## sherri1997 (Jul 9, 2013)

smallsteps said:


> You tried Sherri but he's not going to compromise. He'll just keep playing games hoping that you'll give in to what he wants.
> 
> Truth is I don't think he'll settle for anything else. It's his way or no way.
> 
> ...


The dog's house ... are you serious? Wow, that is a new one.

And you are right, at this point, he won't compromise and if I don't do things his way, then it will go to court. I suspect that he will back down at some point but I will go to a few lawyers that offer free consultations and see what they say.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

sherri1997 said:


> The dog's house ... are you serious? Wow, that is a new one.
> 
> And you are right, at this point, he won't compromise and if I don't do things his way, then it will go to court. I suspect that he will back down at some point but I will go to a few lawyers that offer free consultations and see what they say.


Totally serious. He's such an idiot it's laughable.

I think you're right. When he realizes that you mean business and your not backing down he'll settle. It's like a game of chicken. He'll wait until the last possible minute before you end up in a courtroom. Just stay strong with this.

It's a great idea to see a few lawyers before settling on one.

Enjoy your time in New York. You'll have lots to do here.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Sherri, I think his communication to you was far from cordial. And remember words mean nothing now, only actions. What do have you to gain by responding, its not like he will suddenly become reasonable, and you run the risk of him lashing out at you again. Don't do it.
When the attorney you spoke with mentioned mediation, did you share with him that your husband is misrepresenting income? The mediator has no formal authority to force either party to do anything, and doesn't represent either party. They are to guide you through the process, but don't have either party's best interest in mind. No way do I think mediation is the way for you to go.

The name on an asset has nothing to do with whether it is martial property. Pretty much all assets acquired during the marriage and up for division (except for stuff like inheritance). Do not trade child support for debt. It sounds like he will get his parent's to pay if off, while your debts will still be there.
Go enjoy the big city!


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

I'm glad to see you're thinking of switching lawyers. Sounds like this one isn't very on top of things.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Definitely DONT go use a mediator, and DONT try and make arrangements with him one on one. He is trying to bully you and make you back down, so retain a lawyer and do EVERYTHING though him/her. Protect yourself.


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## sherri1997 (Jul 9, 2013)

Thanks again everyone. I dropped my youngest off to J this morning and it went ok and nothing was brought up and all I allowed him to talk about was my oldest school. THen about two hours later, I get this text message:

*"Sherri, you and I really need to sit down and handle this .. I cannot afford to pay the majority of our debt and giving you what you're asking for monthly"*

I am not responding. First, we have split our debt 50/50 and I was actually paying more than 50/50 when we first split. Second, he starts this crap with me anytime I don't engage with him to start a huge battle where he reminds me that he gave up on me and then I go back and forth acting like a child and I am not doing that anymore. I don't have to see him for like almost 3 weeks and I will not respond to any texts or calls.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Good don't engage. Leave that for an attorney, one who will demand an honest disclosure of his income and assets. Good grief, these are his children he's trying to shortchange.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

sherri1997 said:


> Thanks again everyone. I dropped my youngest off to J this morning and it went ok and nothing was brought up and all I allowed him to talk about was my oldest school. THen about two hours later, I get this text message:
> 
> *"Sherri, you and I really need to sit down and handle this .. I cannot afford to pay the majority of our debt and giving you what you're asking for monthly"*
> 
> I am not responding. First, we have split our debt 50/50 and I was actually paying more than 50/50 when we first split. Second, he starts this crap with me anytime I don't engage with him to start a huge battle where he reminds me that he gave up on me and then I go back and forth acting like a child and I am not doing that anymore. I don't have to see him for like almost 3 weeks and I will not respond to any texts or calls.


If you don't engage him he can't bully you. He knows that. So now he'll nag and beg instead.

Let him. Don't respond to it. Let him realize your serious.


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## sherri1997 (Jul 9, 2013)

Pluto2 said:


> Good don't engage. Leave that for an attorney, one who will demand an honest disclosure of his income and assets. Good grief, these are his children he's trying to shortchange.


You know, I have brought that up to him before as this money is for the kids and his response is that he needs to be able to provide for them when they are with him. THey are with me 4 nights and his 3 nights, so the child support is based off joint custody, not full custody as we have 3 worksheets we enter our incomes into.

It has come to the point that I can't even tell him that anymore b/c it goes in one ear and out the other. He thinks that I am saving a bunch of money on the side for myself ... if I had a savings account, I would be so darn happy right now and wouldn't be struggling every month but it doesn't matter if I show him bank stmts or anything b/c he won't listen.


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## sherri1997 (Jul 9, 2013)

smallsteps said:


> If you don't engage him he can't bully you. He knows that. So now he'll nag and beg instead.
> 
> Let him. Don't respond to it. Let him realize your serious.


yes, I expect the nagging and pleading to begin soon when he understands that I won't allow this anymore. But I won't have to deal with it face to face with him either ... at least for a couple more weeks while I am out of town


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

sherri1997 said:


> yes, I expect the nagging and pleading to begin soon when he understands that I won't allow this anymore. But I won't have to deal with it face to face with him either ... at least for a couple more weeks while I am out of town


Good, let him stew....

You just enjoy your trip


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## sherri1997 (Jul 9, 2013)

Well it didn't take long for him to get the idea and I knew it wouldn't b/c I normally respond to him and now I am getting a bit scared. Here is what he sent me:


First text:

_*"Here we go ... this is going to get really expensive."*_

Next text:

*"if this is the route in which you feel it is the most beneficial for the kids then I will meet with my lawyer on Monday .. this is going to completely bury us in a world of debt .. that's all I have until you are ready to sit down and handle this so both of us are comfortable"*

Next text:
*
"I am really trying to do this amicably so we do not damage our relationship any further for the sake of our kids ... I am done trying after this"*

Next text:

*" I am begging you not to go in this direction ... this will not end good"*


So, yes I am scared now but I am not going to respond. I don't know what he has up his sleeve and why he is saying that this will not end good. I want to tell him that I am not stupid and that I know that his parents are going to pay off his end of the debt and leave me barely making it but I am not going to. I am going to stay on here and not engage .. I can do this but I am terrified now.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Stand strong.
Remember that his words mean nothing, you already know he lies when it suits him. He lied about the EA, he lies about his income, he lies about the fact that his parents will pay his debt.
Do not engage.
His threats are an attempt to intimidate you. Repeat to yourself "This will not work on me." I also think he is getting bad at the threats. One text says "I'm done trying." But then he tries some more to get some response. Pitiful. Guess the little boy inside him was actually done yet.
Maybe you could turn your phone off so you won't see anymore texts.


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## sherri1997 (Jul 9, 2013)

Pluto2 said:


> Stand strong.
> Remember that his words mean nothing, you already know he lies when it suits him. He lied about the EA, he lies about his income, he lies about the fact that his parents will pay his debt.
> Do not engage.
> His threats are an attempt to intimidate you. Repeat to yourself "This will not work on me." I also think he is getting bad at the threats. One text says "I'm done trying." But then he tries some more to get some response. Pitiful. Guess the little boy inside him was actually done yet.
> Maybe you could turn your phone off so you won't see anymore texts.


Thank-you and you are right. I turned off my phone and turned up the music and am cleaning like a mad woman to keep me busy!

I laughed too when I saw that he said he was done and then sent me another text and then another one. These were not spaced out too far but I haven't got anything back but he has the kids so I assume, they will start back up after they go to bed. But I will repeat what you said over and over and will NOT engage with him! Thanks!


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

To me it sounds like he's worried. He's throwing everything out there to get you to respond - DON'T. He's just messing with you.

It's killing his ego to think you're not caving into his demands.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

SAVE THOSE TEXTS!!! (and show them to your new lawyer)


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## sherri1997 (Jul 9, 2013)

Nothing else yet but I am calling lawyers offices to see about any free consultations right now to go ahead and get started on my end. I won't hire a lawyer until he does but it doesn't hurt to go to any free consulations b/c once I go to a lawyer, that means that he can't use them.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Very devious. I like it.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

sherri1997 said:


> Nothing else yet but I am calling lawyers offices to see about any free consultations right now to go ahead and get started on my end. I won't hire a lawyer until he does but it doesn't hurt to go to any free consulations b/c once I go to a lawyer, that means that he can't use them.


That's true. My mom had me go see 3 because it happened to her. When her and my father divorced (we're talking the 70's keep in mind) my father went for a bunch of consults and locked her out of most of the lawyers in the area. She ended up with a really bad one because of it.


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## sherri1997 (Jul 9, 2013)

not many lawyers offer free consulations but I do have one set up for Friday, the 13th when I get home. The fee is $150 for the consulation but the reviews are outstanding. Still no word from J and I am glad about that! Back to cleaning


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

As I understand it, if you in fact get a lawyer, he is NOT obliged to do the same. What you choose to spend your money on is your business. What -- is he afraid your lawyer will prevent him from bullying you? Seems that way.

I don't want to worry you unnecessarily, but I really dislike someone saying "This won't end well." WTF is that supposed to mean? Is it a psuedo-passive-aggressive threat of some sort? What is his state of mind, other than the obvious that he senses he is losing his ability to control you?

I often here people be advised to carry a voice-activated recorder (VAR) on them, and record every conversation (secretly). Legality of that varies from state to state, and seems to mostly boil down to two sorts of laws: 1) it is legal if ONE party is aware the recording is being made (and perhaps is making it herself -- as opposed to using a private investigator); 2) it is legal ONLY IF BOTH parties is aware and have agreed to it.

Have you filed for divorce yet? My understanding is nothing is enforceable until you've had a hearing with a judge or filed an agreement with the court, and to do that you need to file for divorce first -- and, if it takes a hearing, that may be weeks out from there.

Btw, a friend of mind sort of wishes he found an attorney that would handle the divorce for a flat fee. At least there for awhile, he thought it was all going to drag out for a long time and many rounds involving the lawyer. Might be worth asking about that option when you are shopping for a lawyer.

Oh, one more thing. Ask very soon about whether you are financially isolated from any new debt he takes on. I'm not sure if "just moving out" or whatever is the important thing here; it may take some sort of legal filing to separate your finances. It might be possible for him to pay a lawyer's retainer on HIS credit card, and then you be liable (until a judge rules otherwise) for half.

Again, I don't mean to add unnecessary worry. And, I've forgotten if I have known what has been filed yet or not. And these things vary from state to state. Google is your friend, if a lawyer cannot be reached. Or maybe someone can speak to these things here.

Good luck.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

I don't know about Sherri's state, but my state does not require both spouses to have a lawyer if one does. I was the only one who retained a lawyer in my D. Once I knew that Chinless was going to try to bully me into anything we tried to mediate, I cancelled and got a lawyer. He maintained to the very end that it was unnecessary and a waste of my money (DUH), but I wanted it done well, and without him arguing with me all the time. I had already researched everything we needed to do on our state's websites but he argued it all and I simply got tired of it. I'm not rich by ANY stretch of the imagination, but paying for the lawyer was totally worth the juggling I had to do elsewhere in my budget. If Ex had really been worried about my money, he wouldn't have been an as$hole in the first place.  

I was not dealing with the kind of (to me) threatening language and outright intimidation tactics you are, Sherri. So, lawyer up, and don't shed one tear over whether he can afford one or not. Nobody told him to be an abusive cheater. That's his choice.


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## sherri1997 (Jul 9, 2013)

So, I checked my email tonight and this is what he wrote and hasn't contacted me in any other way.

* I have thought about everything since we spoke to the mediator together. I'm trying to understand your financial situation the best I can but unfortunately mine is pretty bad too. As of right now if something were to happen to my truck, I can't get another vehicle. Not only financially, but credit wise. My credit is maxed out. We made the decision together to get you and the kids into a nice vehicle. But I need some of my credit cleared up. Most of our marriage debt is under my credit, which isn't helping. Which we know is split 50/50 in the divorce. But I'm not here trying to split everything 50/50. If we can work this out that would be great. But I can work with you as far as keeping my name on the house till you can refinance within 2 years. As we will split the equity at the time of refinancing due to my credit being tied up and me not being able to purchase a home for me and the kids. That means I will have to rent till then, which is effecting my plans for the kids and I. Again I'm not trying to hurt you, but trying to be fair and understanding on both sides here. 

As far as the child support goes, the court system/ lawyers are going to go off our W2 forms for the past 2 to 5 years. I know the mediator told us 917.00 but that was also an estimate of our incomes. Again I'm not going after everything 50/50. I'm not going to split our house hold items down the middle or go after 401K. I want to be able to make this as less painful as possible. Our kids need us right now and I know you and I love our kids more than anything. 

I'm finally at the point where I have a schedule when all my bills get paid and what comes out and what date. As far as "The One Main" you can refinance that credit card into your name or I will continue to pay that and deduct that from child support. Due to the fact that, that's my credit and want to make sure It gets paid every month. And please don't take it as a dig, I've just been trying to get my credit score back on track. If that doesn't work for you, then please try to refinance the amount into your name so everything can be 50/50 with our marriage debt. 
If your not going full time, how are you going to refinance the house in your name? And if we are waiting to refi in the home, there should be no problem for you to refi the highlander in your name only due to the equity in the vehicle. 

I know you and have spent 12 yrs together and not all were bad. But there's no reason why we can't be friends. The kids are everything to me as well as spending time with them. I appreciate you not wanting to move away. But I understand your reasoning. I'm just thankful you thought about them and their needs. 
My proposal to you is I will pay you $600 a month in child support without you paying anything on the one main and will get all your names on the credit cards I have off at the time of divorce. I will clear up your credit then, and in return you will refi your truck by the time of divorce. Or you can refi the main into your name and I will continue with $800. a month. And we will continue to keep the house in both names and you keep everything in it. 

If this doesn't work then hire a lawyer, I don't want to fight but want to make things right for both of us and our children. So we can both have a good future for them. I think the mediator isn't going to help this situation and need something else to settle this. I'm trying to start from the ground up again and I'm ok with that but I need to work with something. I hope we can work this out. Take care. *

So, to me, there wasn't much threatening in there yet but I haven't responded. There were a lot of lies as the state amount of $917 is not including his cash tips that he doesn't claim. He wants half of the equity in the home when I refiannce in 2 years which means it will have been 3 years since I took over the pmts of the house. He is also incorrect in that the marriage debt is not 50/50 b/c we have the one main credit card in BOTH of our names, so it is tied to mine as well.

Anyhow, none of that really matters as they are petty things. The main this is the child support amount. I was surprised that he wrote anything like that at all and seemed to be better about it or am I just being blind here? What do you guys think? I haven't responded and not sure if I am going to at this point?


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Well, I hate to break it to him, but good luck to him just 'having them take your name off' the joint credit cards. Doesn't always happen that way. If you're an authorized user, maybe. If you're joint on the debt, sorry. The bank will not let someone off of a debt, even if the divorce agreement says to. Same with a mortgage. You can just sign over your part of the deed, but you're on the mortgage unless the house is refinanced into one name or sold. Ex and I had 3 credit cards at the time of our D, but only one had a balance. That was one I got before we were married, and I'd added him to the account as a co-'debtor', not just an authorized user. I was primary on one of the others, and he was primary on the third. We took each other off as authorized users of them while they had $0 balance, then took the big debt off the main card, split it in 1/2, and I put 1/2 on my card and he put 1/2 on his. Then I had to close the big card. That pissed me off. as I'd had it a long time, but I couldn't take his name off since I'd made it joint. We were both able to get 0% balance transfers, so that helped for a while. With our house, it was a toss-up for a while as to whether we'd sell, he'd buy me out, or I'd buy him out. He ended up buying me out. 

But when a bank (including credit cards) grant a loan to two people, they qualify both people. They don't just take one of the people off of the contract, no matter what a divorce decree says. I've heard many times of people getting screwed over because of this. They think they're absolved of half a mortgage, the other spouse quits paying, and lo and behold, the 'absolved' spouse is in foreclosure for a house they no longer hold deed to. 

That's why it's smart to get a lawyer. Even our self-help law clinic at the courthouse says that couples should not use them if there is joint debt, retirement accounts, etc.

As to what he wrote about child support, don't respond. Save it and give it to the lawyer. You have a trip to get ready for.


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## sherri1997 (Jul 9, 2013)

angelpixie said:


> Well, I hate to break it to him, but good luck to him just 'having them take your name off' the joint credit cards. Doesn't always happen that way. If you're an authorized user, maybe. If you're joint on the debt, sorry. The bank will not let someone off of a debt, even if the divorce agreement says to. Same with a mortgage. You can just sign over your part of the deed, but you're on the mortgage unless the house is refinanced into one name or sold. Ex and I had 3 credit cards at the time of our D, but only one had a balance. That was one I got before we were married, and I'd added him to the account as a co-'debtor', not just an authorized user. I was primary on one of the others, and he was primary on the third. We took each other off as authorized users of them while they had $0 balance, then took the big debt off the main card, split it in 1/2, and I put 1/2 on my card and he put 1/2 on his. Then I had to close the big card. That pissed me off. as I'd had it a long time, but I couldn't take his name off since I'd made it joint. We were both able to get 0% balance transfers, so that helped for a while. With our house, it was a toss-up for a while as to whether we'd sell, he'd buy me out, or I'd buy him out. He ended up buying me out.
> 
> But when a bank (including credit cards) grant a loan to two people, they qualify both people. They don't just take one of the people off of the contract, no matter what a divorce decree says. I've heard many times of people getting screwed over because of this. They think they're absolved of half a mortgage, the other spouse quits paying, and lo and behold, the 'absolved' spouse is in foreclosure for a house they no longer hold deed to.
> 
> ...


I think he was saying to have me refinance the loan we have in both of our names over to my name only and I am ok with doing that. The house and truck, I would have to refinance as well. I can do the house in about 2 years which he claims he will give me time for but the truck, I am not doing as there is 0% on it and since I work from home, it is soley used as transportation for the kids. His credit isn't tied up enough to not be able to get a truck loan. Especially once mommy pays off his debt. 

I am not going to respond. I think that he worded that email nicely in order to get me to respond the way that I always do. I suspect that the threats will come after I don't respond and since I don't have to see or talk to him for awhile, I can just wait it out. I have a consulation soon and I am going to print all these out as well as the texts (even though I was mean on some of those texts) and give them all to the lawyer that I will be seeing. 

This is the calm before the storm, again but I will have my umbrella this time!


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## sherri1997 (Jul 9, 2013)

Also wanted to add that I am not so sure about giving him half of the equity in the home after I have been paying on it for 3 years on my own? I don't think that is a wise move on my part as the housing values are going back up in this area now?

He didn't take 50/50 out of the house. He took a lot, but not as much as he could have taken. But I didn't keep him from taking anything that he wanted except for a camera that we bought together b/c I use it all the time. But I did give him a different camera that we had, it just wasn't as nice as the other one. 

I hate that he is starting all over with what he thinks is nothing but a lot of this is his doing. He chose to leave the marriage, not me. While I know I can't play the victim card and hate playing it, why should have get anything? He always told me that if he ended the marriage, he would only take his clothes and his gun collection (which is valued at like $10k) out of the house. Yet, when it came down to it, he took almost all the decorations out of the living room and bedroom, a huge TV and surround sound system, a desktop computer and desk, all electric tools and other decor items.

While he could have taken a lot more in appliances and yard materials, I think he got out with a lot considering that the items that he didn't take were basically items in the kids room, living room furniture (his mom brought brand new furniture for him), bedroom furniture (his mom gave him their set and bought herself a new set) and the appliances his mom gave him like a microwave, washer and dryer and coffee maker, ect. He isn't going without b/c his mom buys him everything and I mean anything and everything that he needs. 

I am glad that he has the support of his mom b/c I don't have that on my side so I can't degrade him for that but he also can't tell me that he is being fair by leaving things in the house when he has his mom out there buying anything that he needs. Does that make sense?


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Yes it makes sense. And even though he took things with him, you might still get some of it back in the settlement. It depends. Most of the time, the couple is required to account for everything, and then on paper, describe who gets what and what the value is. The court will want to know why if there's a discrepancy and one party seems to be getting more than the other. If both parties agree, it might not matter, but the judge will want to know that it's really agreed to. Generally, things bought with combined assets are considered joint property. Things given to both of you are joint property. Is your state a community property state or an equitable property state? One is more straight up 50/50 and the other is not.


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## sherri1997 (Jul 9, 2013)

angelpixie said:


> Yes it makes sense. And even though he took things with him, you might still get some of it back in the settlement. It depends. Most of the time, the couple is required to account for everything, and then on paper, describe who gets what and what the value is. The court will want to know why if there's a discrepancy and one party seems to be getting more than the other. If both parties agree, it might not matter, but the judge will want to know that it's really agreed to. Generally, things bought with combined assets are considered joint property. Things given to both of you are joint property. Is your state a community property state or an equitable property state? One is more straight up 50/50 and the other is not.


Mine is a equitable property state, I think. I am sure that I have more value in the home then what he took. The biggest thing that he took was his gun collection and the value of those are high now but not sure how how. I took pictures of it all and counted everything before he left. 

Maybe that is what he means by it is going to end bad b/c he will take more out of the house? In all honesty, those are material things to me so if he feels like he needs to take more out of the house, then he can have it. Those things are all replaceable. As long as he doesn't touch my kids, then I am fine.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Sherri, remember that an equitable distribution does not mean 50/50 division. It is not equitable to split everything 50/50 when one party has primary physical custody of minor children, or one party has the ability to earn more, or one party has more separate property. That's why people (and yes, usually the men) think they get "screwed" by the courts when more marital property is awarded to the wife. They're not. They just assumed they get half.
Also, it hardly ever matters who paid a bill. If you're still married, and not officially separated, its marital.
Who cares about his credit score.
Don't for one minute buy his empty words about how much the children mean to him. If they honestly meant the world to him, he would not have gotten involved in an EA, or left the marriage. That choice on his part is what brought the two of you to this. If his children honestly meant the world to him, he would have tried to change the dynamics of the marriage from within the marriage, or gone to counseling. This is on him. Only honest actions matter from here on.
Don't respond. Save it all for the attorneys.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

He may be the nicest well-meaning guy in the world concerned about nothing but you and the kids, but that does not mean he is good at math and conscious of all the pitfalls of settling things one way or the other. AFAIK, if either of you miss anything in coming up with a settlement, there is no "do over" where you get to re-negotiate.

If I would say anything, it would be something like this: Thank you for clarifying your financial concerns, and the motivation behind what you proposed. I want to settle this in a fair manner, and cause no unnecessary pain or expense. I will instruct my counsel to give your financial concerns due consideration.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

I dont know how it works in your state, but HERE, the child support is determined strictly by income. Him trying to haggle his support amount seems ridiculous to me.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

http://www.rosen.com/childcalculator/

This is a link from a NC law firm about how to calculate child support payments. Its not difficult. And this is what the courts follow. Notice how it doesn't care about his bills, or his credit score.


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## sherri1997 (Jul 9, 2013)

Pluto2 said:


> Sherri, remember that an equitable distribution does not mean 50/50 division. It is not equitable to split everything 50/50 when one party has primary physical custody of minor children, or one party has the ability to earn more, or one party has more separate property. That's why people (and yes, usually the men) think they get "screwed" by the courts when more marital property is awarded to the wife. They're not. They just assumed they get half.
> Also, it hardly ever matters who paid a bill. If you're still married, and not officially separated, its marital.
> Who cares about his credit score.
> Don't for one minute buy his empty words about how much the children mean to him.* If they honestly meant the world to him, he would not have gotten involved in an EA, or left the marriage. *That choice on his part is what brought the two of you to this. If his children honestly meant the world to him, he would have tried to change the dynamics of the marriage from within the marriage, or gone to counseling. This is on him. Only honest actions matter from here on.
> Don't respond. Save it all for the attorneys.


I have said that exact same thing to him on several occasions when I have been angry. He looked at our children everyday and knew what he was doing. The messed up thing is that I honestly don't think that he things what he did was wrong b/c he claims to have not had sex with her?? It makes me so angry!

I went tonight to a friends house that I had never met before as she is a friend of a friend. But she is 4 years into her divorce and she helped so much. She has two kids that were my kids age when they divorced, so she has been exactly where i am at. Now her and her x still do holidays and stuff together for the kids b/c they have no family here and I could never imagine being at that point, but she has several girlfriends that are all single moms and it helps to know that I can now be a part of that. I dragged my feet in meeting with her b/c I just haven't felt like doing anything but I am so glad that I did today.

She had another friend of hers over and she just separated from her husband this past Tuesday and seeing the same deer in the headlights look on her reminded me of how far I have come, even though it doesn't feel like it sometimes.


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## sherri1997 (Jul 9, 2013)

So I didn't respond to him at all and he sent me a message about money and stuff that he is depositing tomorrow but it is $100 short of what we had agreed to but I am just making notes of it and going to my lawyer.

I am not talking to him about it and I don't care at all if he hates me when we are done. The only reason he says that is to scare me and b/c he is scared. I think that he knows that I can get him on his cheating (alimony), abandoment (alimony) and child support. I will know more after I talk to a lawyer some more but I plan on going after everything I can to make sure that I can support my kids ... in the end, that is all that matters to me. I love them so much and they don't deserve this and never asked for it so I have to be strong for them!


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

sherri1997 said:


> So I didn't respond to him at all and he sent me a message about money and stuff that he is depositing tomorrow but it is $100 short of what we had agreed to but I am just making notes of it and going to my lawyer.
> 
> I am not talking to him about it and I don't care at all if he hates me when we are done. The only reason he says that is to scare me and b/c he is scared. I think that he knows that I can get him on his cheating (alimony), abandoment (alimony) and child support. I will know more after I talk to a lawyer some more but I plan on going after everything I can to make sure that I can support my kids ... in the end, that is all that matters to me. I love them so much and they don't deserve this and never asked for it so I have to be strong for them!


You're 100% right. You sound confident today. Good for you!!!


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## sherri1997 (Jul 9, 2013)

smallsteps said:


> You're 100% right. You sound confident today. Good for you!!!


I sound confident but today was a rough day for me until I went to see friends. I couldn't sleep and now I am back at work until 315am and then get up at 7 to take my daughter to school and get back home to get ready for this trip! I am going to be so tired! When I get tired, I miss him for some reason. This just all sucks!


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

sherri1997 said:


> I sound confident but today was a rough day for me until I went to see friends. I couldn't sleep and now I am back at work until 315am and then get up at 7 to take my daughter to school and get back home to get ready for this trip! I am going to be so tired! When I get tired, I miss him for some reason. This just all sucks!


That happens. When I get tired I'm more likely to have anxiety kick in and be sad. I also have a hard time snapping out of any bad thought I may get into.

Friends are great to bring your mood up. One of my oldest friends just told me if I have a night I'm not working next week we should get together. I may take her up on it.

Try to grab some cat naps here and there. At least you'll recharge yourself in between running around.


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## sherri1997 (Jul 9, 2013)

smallsteps said:


> That happens. When I get tired I'm more likely to have anxiety kick in and be sad. I also have a hard time snapping out of any bad thought I may get into.
> 
> Friends are great to bring your mood up. One of my oldest friends just told me if I have a night I'm not working next week we should get together. I may take her up on it.
> 
> Try to grab some cat naps here and there. At least you'll recharge yourself in between running around.


Yes, I try to nap but today, I just couldn't b/c I was thinking too much about him and I don't know why? I can see through his lies now and yet, I still miss him and I hate that I still miss him and wish things were different. I hate that he has done this to our family and I hate that my children are going through this. THey are so different now ... not really in a bad way, but this has been difficult for them. I never wanted my kids to be involved in a blended family but I am sure that I will feel better down the road b/c I came from a blended family and I don't have any scars from it. My kids just need to know that they are loved and they are loved by both of us. 

Why am I already worried about who he will get involved with now? I think he is already seeing someone and I wonder who it is and why she is better than me? I met his OW from the EA and she was older than me and not at all attractive and I just don't understand why he would throw us away for that or chance it? Maybe b/c in his head, he thinks that what he did wasn't wrong?

This is going to sound so immature but I want him to regret his decision once I am strong enough to tell him to go to hell if he tried to reconnect? I am so angry that he just gave up on me and reminds me all the time that he gave up on me in order to hurt me? Why was I not worth fighting for? We were in counseling and he could have been honest with me about the OW and he wasn't and would never have been even if I would have never found out. then he had the balls to tell me that he would have slept with her if I wouldn't have found out .. who says that? And now I walk around like a part of me is missing and it just isn't fair. I want to throw a tantrum and I want him to regret this so bad and that is a mean thing for me to want. I should want him to have nothing but happiness but I can't get myself to do that and to let go.

Then he tells me in that last email that "there is no reason we can't be friends" ?? Really?? I wouldn't be friends with anyone like him and he knows that. He knows how I feel about cheating on someone. In fact, right before I found out about the OW, we had a family camping trip with friends and we sat with a friend that was going through the exact thing with her husband and my husband was going on and on about how he couldn't believe that her husband would do that and how wrong it was but HE WAS TEXTING HER THE WHOLE WEEKEND!!!! WTF??

I am sorry, I am so angry still and I really try not to be but gosh, I can't stop it and I know I need to let it go for myself and forgive him for myself, but I just can't right now!!!


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## sherri1997 (Jul 9, 2013)

This morning has been a really bad morning. I got 2 hours of sleep last night with work and then getting my kids to school and running around trying to get things ready for the trip. I am about to lay down for a few hours so I hope that makes it better. I had to go to his apt this morning and get my large suitcase and all I could think was if he had someone there with him at that moment or if they were there last night. I didn't go in the apt and stayed positive around him talking about our 3 year old potty training. 

Then he told me "Have a great trip and have fun but remember that the world is such an ugly place and i would hate to see you hurt so just be careful" Um, not your business anymore.

I left in tears b/c I hate him and I hate all this anger built up. Just a lot of what I already said in my prev post ... just a bad day


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

sherri1997 said:


> This morning has been a really bad morning. I got 2 hours of sleep last night with work and then getting my kids to school and running around trying to get things ready for the trip. I am about to lay down for a few hours so I hope that makes it better. I had to go to his apt this morning and get my large suitcase and all I could think was if he had someone there with him at that moment or if they were there last night. I didn't go in the apt and stayed positive around him talking about our 3 year old potty training.
> 
> Then he told me "Have a great trip and have fun but remember that the world is such an ugly place and i would hate to see you hurt so just be careful" Um, not your business anymore.
> 
> I left in tears b/c I hate him and I hate all this anger built up. Just a lot of what I already said in my prev post ... just a bad day


It's the fatigue taking its toll right now. You're exhausted and you had to deal with him. 
Try to clear you're head and get some sleep. I bet you feel better when you wake up.

Oh and I live in NJ, very close to NYC. It's not a bad place and the people are nice. Ignore him.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Do you file joint taxes? You are aware that he doesn't claim all of his income. This puts you in a bind if you file jointly because you won't be able to go after that additional income without admitting to income tax evasion.

If you were unaware you could go for a... Shoot. Can't think of the term right now. Essentially you could be declared an innocent spouse. My ex-H did that for me since I had no idea what he was up to.

Your STBX is clearly frightened. Underneath it all, he regrets what he has done. But he is prideful.

Pride+fear=dangerous

Think and act strategically as you have been doing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sherri1997 (Jul 9, 2013)

clipclop2 said:


> Do you file joint taxes? You are aware that he doesn't claim all of his income. This puts you in a bind if you file jointly because you won't be able to go after that additional income without admitting to income tax evasion.
> 
> If you were unaware you could go for a... Shoot. Can't think of the term right now. Essentially you could be declared an innocent spouse. My ex-H did that for me since I had no idea what he was up to.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much ClipClop. I always thought his tips were claimed up until this past year when I noticed how much was actually on his W2 and when I confronted him, he told me that he wouldn't change it this year just so I could get more money. But I don't think that he would ever admit to anyone that I didn't know b/c he wants me to go down in whatever way he make it happen. I am going to talk to the lawyer and see what I can and should and shouldn't do.

I felt a bit better after I woke up but still haven't even started packing so I took my kiddos to the pool and wore them out and now I am about to start packing. I never been away from my kids this long and have everything down for everyone that is taking care of them but I am going to miss them so very much!

I think stbxh is getting a bit jealous that I am going on this trip. He called while we were at the pool and he was at work so he never calls during that time and so I answered. He wanted me to go over the schedule with him one more time, even though nothing of his schedule with the kids is changing. He told me again to have a great time and I said that I was going to have a wonderful time and we hung up! 

The weekend I get home, I have a TRI to do and I had to tell him about that earlier today too b/c of the schedule with the kids and he couldn't believe that I was going to do an open water swim ... I have never liked getting in any form of water where I can't see the bottom and I told him that I have to start living now and showing my kids that you can face your fears and overcome them and he was speechless. Don't know if any of that got to him, but in my head, I am thinking that it does or has and that was why he calledagain to go over a shedule that we already have written down. I don't plan on contacting him while I am gone! 

I will check on here though to see how you guys are doing and let you know how everything is going!

SmallSteps -- I wish you were close enough to get together for coffee! That would be awesome!


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

I'm only a train ride away from Manhattan if that's where you're staying.


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## sherri1997 (Jul 9, 2013)

I am actually staying near LaGuadia airport and I have no clue where that is in reference to Manhattan? I tried to research last night and got so confused and just went to bed.

I dont know what is going on the past two days but I am a mess. I used to keep stbxh updated with pics of the kids and he does the same with me. But each time I sent him a picture, he would always say thanks or that he loves them, ect and now he won't respond to anything. In my gut, I feel like he has pulled away even more and I know that is good but it hurts.

He probably has b/c I have as well and he senses that but still, doing the 180 is hard and when you don't get results for yourself getting better, it makes it even harder. My goal is to just not contact him at all this whole trip. If I think of any reason to contact him, then I will not do it!! I know I can think of a millions reasons at any time to reach out to him but that has got to stop. I don't know what is going on with him, but I can't worry about him anymore.

I feel like I am constantly fighting a battle that I get no rest from .. it is so tiring!


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

He's still playing games. He's ramping it up by not responding. I'm sure he knows it's going to bother you if he doesn't answer when you send pictures. 
He's acting like a child but did you expect any less?
Don't put yourself in that position. You tried to do right by sending him the pictures. If he doesn't appreciate it then don't send it.
I'm sure if you stop sending them, your message will be heard loud and clear.


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## MyPainandHurt (Aug 30, 2013)

sherri1997. You are a strong and confident woman. Believe it!!! I hate to see a man bully a woman into submission. You are doing great! continue exploring new things and interests. It will make you feel better and empowered.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

How's the trip going Sherri?


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

Sherri - I don't know your whole story and from what little i've read, your story sounds a lot like what I have gone through. A year ago today, my ex was doing all the same things your husband is doing to you. The blaming, games, bullying...oh my God, there were so many times I just wanted to give up! I can't say that it will end completely because in my case, he's still around trying to bully me (I will write about it in my post - Falling Back to Square One about it) at my OWN home! 

Only thing I can tell you is to vent here all you want (it really helps), stay strong, and stay firm with what YOU want. Trust me!


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Good to see you back, 4.5! Will check out your thread later.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

Hi Angel! I didn't have internet until yesterday, so i'm trying to catch up.


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