# My dream girl (must haves in a partner)



## pragmaster (May 7, 2014)

Hey everyone, 

I was doing some reading the other day and found an article relating to defining your needs and boundaries for relationships and how it helps you in the dating world find that ultimate partner. 

I was wondering if someone could go over my list and help me out. I'm looking for a woman to love and one day marry and have kids with. I am wondering if I am being too picky and wanted some feedback on this list. 

The other day I met a woman and was totally blown away. She passed with flying colors on my checklist, but I don't think she was that into me. Still, she was the closest in a while to a woman I could see myself being with and it made me feel really confident about finding my dream girl in the near future. 

Feel free to post your own must/must not have qualities:


Qualities I must have in a woman:

420 friendly
Sexual attraction
More quiet than loud
Wants to have kids one day
Witty and humorous
Presentable to friends and family

Nice to haves:

Laid-back
Long hair 
Similar height or shorter than myself (petite)
Open minded 
Tanned skin; darker color (Romanian, European, East Indian, etc…) 
Likes cats. 

Qualities I won’t put up with in a woman:

Anti-Pot (don't care if you don't smoke, but can't stand haters) 
Hardcore Cigarette Smoker 
Too ambitious or unavailable
Lazy and without direction; no job, no dream, no goals
Needy/Clingy. 
Obese and/or unhealthy
Conservative/Traditional/Christian/Catholic
Germaphobe; doesn’t like to get dirty
Unaware and unintelligent 
Easily offended, prude, poor sense of humor
Has children
Yells a lot, bitter, angry often


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## Maneo (Dec 4, 2012)

some vague items in your list. what for you is "presentable" in a person to friends and family? Looks, personality? What do you define as a "prude"? What does "traditional" mean?In addition to passing muster with your list must she pass some thumbs up/down test with friends and family? Long hair a must? Suppose for some medical reason at some point she must cut her hair short or even shave it all off? Your list is composed of musts, no preferences? A woman who wants kids some day but off the list of she already has one? 

Recognizing likes and dislikes, preferences and boundaries, turn-ons and turn-offs are useful. Having hard lists of "musts" and "must nots" can get tricky. Perhaps the woman you met who seemed to have so many of your list must haves has her own list and you didn't measure up.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

I think this is a fine list (especially the 420 part). : )

But be flexible. I think you'll find your list will be edited once you find someone that's right for you. And that's ok.


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## pragmaster (May 7, 2014)

Maneo said:


> some vague items in your list. what for you is "presentable" in a person to friends and family? Looks, personality? What do you define as a "prude"? What does "traditional" mean?In addition to passing muster with your list must she pass some thumbs up/down test with friends and family? Long hair a must? Suppose for some medical reason at some point she must cut her hair short or even shave it all off? Your list is composed of musts, no preferences? A woman who wants kids some day but off the list of she already has one?
> 
> Recognizing likes and dislikes, preferences and boundaries, turn-ons and turn-offs are useful. Having hard lists of "musts" and "must nots" can get tricky. Perhaps the woman you met who seemed to have so many of your list must haves has her own list and you didn't measure up.


Thx for your reply. Here are some clarifications: 

Presentable: Someone who is polite and well dressed. Respectable. Simple, right? Well, believe it or not I've met some really cool girls that are just total white trash and have no manors whatsoever. Fail! Also, some of the ladies I have dated are just super awkward around my friends. Also no good. 

Prude: Someone who gets offended easily. I like family guy, robot chicken, archer, south park, so yeah, if I can't make the odd jew joke or say things like "pissed off" or "****", then it's not going to work. No way I am going to walk on eggshells. 

Traditional: Bible thumpers, perfectionists/conformists, people who never swear, people against tattoo's and piercings, etc... 

It's all within reason. Long hair is not a must, but short hair is a turn off for me.

Yes, you've got kids= you're off the list. 

It's totally true. Maybe I am too picky, maybe by judging others I am letting the universe do the same to me, and thus not measuring up. For sure. 

These are my absolute musts: 

420 friendly
Sexual attraction
More quiet than loud
Wants to have kids one day
Witty and humorous
Presentable to friends and family


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

I think this is a perfectly reasonable list. You sound like you know what you want and are not overly picky in annoying ways .


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

If I could go back and pick...I would want everything that my wife is...plus

she would be a journeyman plumber

ETA: and diesel mechanic

ETA: and electrician

ETA: and travel agent


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Prag

You need to find a good male role model. 

He will be: 
- Five to ten years older than you 
- Successfully paired if not married
- Interested in helping you

He will help you figure this stuff out, if you let him. 






pragmaster said:


> Thx for your reply. Here are some clarifications:
> 
> Presentable: Someone who is polite and well dressed. Respectable. Simple, right? Well, believe it or not I've met some really cool girls that are just total white trash and have no manors whatsoever. Fail! Also, some of the ladies I have dated are just super awkward around my friends. Also no good.
> 
> ...


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

huh. i never would have thought to make a list. 

trying to think of something that i couldnt work with...
honestly, the differences and conflict that i experienced in my marriage early on are a big part of why i am so happy in my marriage today. we were two very incompatible people who kicked and screamed our way into falling in love with each other. 

wouldnt have it any other way. so, i guess my list would be...

we gotta hate each other at first.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Funny, she MUST be open-minded when you are not. That is going to be awkward one day.


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## Hortensia (Feb 1, 2013)

First of all, kudos for making the list and defining what you want. That is very important. Don't feel bad about being "picky". You like what you like, and that's ok ! 

Actually, that's how wishes/ prayers come into realization. By defining what you want, and focusing on that. The woman that you met, that checked most your boxes, is sign that you are on the right way. Rejoice in this meeting, appreciate the qualities of that woman and recognize it is a sign from God/ Infinite Consciousness. You should add to the list "someone to be into me, as I am into her."

You defined what you don't want, now stop focusing on that. Or women with those unwanted traits will come your way. Focus on the qualities you do want- that only, and you'll soon meet someone exactly as you are looking for.

Your post made me smile, for it is finally a post directed toward the wanted aspects, something rare on this board  Blessings.


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## pragmaster (May 7, 2014)

MEM11363 said:


> Prag
> 
> You need to find a good male role model.
> 
> ...


That's a great idea! I can't say I have met a good role model, or one I truly aspire to. A lot of the married men I know seem to be in a kiss-ass relationship. They've been so betaized it's not even funny.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Prag,

So 'that' right there (the post below) is a habit you need to erase. 

It's 'self elevation' by 'diminishing the group'. 

It is what insecure people do. A secure person says: I haven't identified a good role model yet. 

And THEN they either describe a strategy for doing so OR they show 'core strength' via casual display of vulnerability by asking: what's a good strategy for finding such a role model?

And - BTW - the ONLY TRUE measure of someone's marital 'alpha quotient' is: The degree and ease with which they are able to get their needs met within the marriage. 

That doesn't mean it's a fools errand to observe external behaviors. Merely that you won't much know what they mean unless you can get the husband to TELL you what's really happening behind closed doors. 





pragmaster said:


> That's a great idea! I can't say I have met a good role model, or one I truly aspire to. A lot of the married men I know seem to be in a kiss-ass relationship. They've been so betaized it's not even funny.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

pragmaster said:


> Qualities *I must have in a woman*:
> 
> 420 friendly
> Sexual attraction
> ...


prag... I find this list superficial and *deplorable.*

What if you meet a perky, blue-eyed blonde (as in the Norse geneology) who is PERFECT for you? Petite (shorter than YOU -- as you have mentioned you are 5'5"), beautiful, perfect body, smart as a whip, tolerates pot and cigs (but doesn't smoke them), is INTO your pagan beliefs, no trainwreck past...

Are you going to ditch her simply because she doesn't have TANNED SKIN, of the Romanian, European, East Indian variety)????

Are you effing kidding me?

Good luck brother. Men who are short already have a limited pool. I find your perameters insulting to women.


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

happy as a clam said:


> prag... I find this list superficial and *deplorable.*
> 
> What if you meet a *perky, blue-eyed blonde (as in the Norse geneology) who is PERFECT for you? Petite *(shorter than YOU -- as you have mentioned you are 5'5"), beautiful, perfect body, smart as a whip, tolerates pot and cigs (but doesn't smoke them), is INTO your pagan beliefs, no trainwreck past...
> 
> ...


Where would someone find these blue-eyed -blonde-haired tanned skin -morally flexible east indian women you speak of?

I ask on behalf of a friend


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## pragmaster (May 7, 2014)

Hortensia said:


> First of all, kudos for making the list and defining what you want. That is very important. Don't feel bad about being "picky". You like what you like, and that's ok !
> 
> Actually, that's how wishes/ prayers come into realization. By defining what you want, and focusing on that. The woman that you met, that checked most your boxes, is sign that you are on the right way. Rejoice in this meeting, appreciate the qualities of that woman and recognize it is a sign from God/ Infinite Consciousness. You should add to the list "someone to be into me, as I am into her."
> 
> ...


Thank you for your feedback  

What are some tips to focus on my wants to get them to manifest? I meditate and I understand exactly what you are saying. I really feel the universe resonate and we are definitely on to something here. It's easy to focus on the don't wants, but I struggle focusing on the wants without totally judging someone, specifically on a day-to-day basis. 

I have two comments to that regard. 

1) Sometimes I worry that by dismissing the women I THINK I don't want I might actually push away a women I do. It's like, how do I know? A lot of the things that I really need in a woman aren't obvious until I've spoken to her (usually) The only exception to that is height, which I've learned to let go. I used to feel like women weren't interesting in dating shorter men, so I just stopped checking out taller women. At first I thought this was a correct approach, but then I realized I would be no different then them, I was cutting down my chances further and I was also avoiding eye contact and pretty much not treating them like human beings. So do I absolutely need to have a woman shorter than me? No. I am way cooler than that and I feel like I have made a breakthrough in that regard. Maybe you can enlighten me here a bit though please. 

2) How often do other guys think about this stuff? Sometimes I believe I am over-thinking and obsessing about it and people can tell. Like there really hasn't been a day since D-Day that I have actually turned off my women spidey-senses. I am having trouble. I don't seem to be able to. Is this normal? Do all men experience this? It's not my libido, it's simply my woman-radar. I seem to think about women every hour of every day. They drive me insane I tell you. 


I definitely want to be with someone who is into me. That is the biggest thing. I am done selling myself to others who just aren't aware. I've been reading Corey Wayne's videos and am really happy with the practical content so far.


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## bkyln309 (Feb 1, 2015)

Wow! Now, list your assets. Because when I find men this picky and single, usually its because they really are not a catch themselves. They are delusional!


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## pragmaster (May 7, 2014)

MEM11363 said:


> Prag,
> 
> So 'that' right there (the post below) is a habit you need to erase.
> 
> ...


Which post? Can you clarify? I have no idea what you are talking about. 

Please and thanks.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Prag

I quoted a post of yours. It's at the bottom of my post. That is the post I am referring to. 





pragmaster said:


> Which post? Can you clarify? I have no idea what you are talking about.
> 
> Please and thanks.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> Prag,
> 
> So 'that' right there (the post below) is a habit you need to erase.
> 
> ...


Who ARE you, and when is your book coming out?


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## pragmaster (May 7, 2014)

happy as a clam said:


> prag... I find this list superficial and *deplorable.*
> 
> What if you meet a perky, blue-eyed blonde (as in the Norse geneology) who is PERFECT for you? Petite (shorter than YOU -- as you have mentioned you are 5'5"), beautiful, perfect body, smart as a whip, tolerates pot and cigs (but doesn't smoke them), is INTO your pagan beliefs, no trainwreck past...
> 
> ...


Whoa whoa chill out. Lol.

If you read more of the thread you would have seen I cut out some things. My list has been refined. Lol. Yeah. 

420 friendly
Sexual attraction (I find tanned skin more attractive but obviously it's not a deal breaker) 
More quiet than loud
Wants to have kids one day
Witty and humorous
Presentable to friends and family


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Nobody,

Life is now forcing my hand. I actually need to resume earning money - I'll start on the book in earnest by the end of this month.







NobodySpecial said:


> Who ARE you, and when is your book coming out?


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Female here. If I knew about your list, I would find you shallow. I notice that character is no where on the list! But long hair and dark skin are. There you have it. Honest feedback. I would walk right by you.


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

pragmaster said:


> Thank you for your feedback
> 
> What are some tips to focus on my wants to get them to manifest? I meditate and I understand exactly what you are saying. I really feel the universe resonate and we are definitely on to something here. It's easy to focus on the don't wants, but I struggle focusing on the wants without totally judging someone, specifically on a day-to-day basis.
> 
> ...



Don't dismiss any women. There is a whole wide world of them out there with thoughts just a wierd as the rest of us. Some are beautiful outside some are beautiful inside, some are both, and some -though fewer are neither. If you continue to view the world and the people in it through the lens of someone who has been hurt -you will never see clearly what is there for you. Everyone gets hurt. But to avoid any type relationship risk because there MAY be a downside -you're missing the opportunity to be surprised. It's like the lotto...you can't win if you don't play. 

I think about these things frequently. Most probably do.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> Nobody,
> 
> Life is now forcing my hand. I actually need to resume earning money - I'll start on the book in earnest by the end of this month.


You would make a wonderful therapist, but there is no money in that.


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## pragmaster (May 7, 2014)

MEM11363 said:


> Prag
> 
> I quoted a post of yours. It's at the bottom of my post. That is the post I am referring to.


You mean this? I don't understand what is so diminishing about it and to what group. Which part exactly? 

"That's a great idea! I can't say I have met a good role model, or one I truly aspire to. A lot of the married men I know seem to be in a kiss-ass relationship. They've been so betaized it's not even funny."

It's true. I don't have any role models to that regard and most of the married men I know are total kiss-asses or cheat on their wives. Keyword is "seem". Perception is always just that.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

pragmaster said:


> You mean this? I don't understand what is so diminishing about it and to what group. Which part exactly?


What I think it is is that by putting down those "betaized" married men, you are giving clues to yourself about your real confidence. And it does not tell the best story. Confident people don't put other people down.



> "That's a great idea! I can't say I have met a good role model, or one I truly aspire to. A lot of the married men I know seem to be in a kiss-ass relationship. They've been so betaized it's not even funny."
> 
> It's true. I don't have any role models to that regard and most of the married men I know are total kiss-asses or cheat on their wives. Keyword is "seem". Perception is always just that.


As an exercise, try to frame the response the way MEM did in your mind and see how it fits. Does it feel any different?


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## pragmaster (May 7, 2014)

NobodySpecial said:


> Female here. If I knew about your list, I would find you shallow. I notice that character is no where on the list! But long hair and dark skin are. There you have it. Honest feedback. I would walk right by you.


Chill out. Re-read it. The list has been updated refined: 

420 friendly
Sexual attraction (I find tanned skin more attractive but obviously it's not a deal breaker) 
More quiet than loud
Wants to have kids one day
Witty and humorous
Presentable to friends and family

Character? What do you mean exactly? Can you give me some examples? The only character "must have" is more of a quiet person, not so much extrovert, who likes to smoke pot and talk spirituality or hobbies I also enjoy. I don't know what you mean by character... 

You say you would walk right by me, and thus you proved my point that a list is crucial or I am wasting my time.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

pragmaster said:


> *Chill out*. Re-read it. The list has been updated refined:


Techie, techie!


> 420 friendly
> Sexual attraction (I find tanned skin more attractive but obviously it's not a deal breaker)
> More quiet than loud
> Wants to have kids one day
> ...


I confess that I have not followed any previous threads of yours. Are you young? Liking smoking pot and being quiet are personality traits not character traits. Character traits are things that are really important to you. Things you *value*. And as a female who is probably WAY older than you, what you claim to value is pretty shallow. That's ok. If you are really young, you will grow into different values. Those kids you speak of will drag it out of you! 

Likes smoking and more quiet than loud may be initial niceties. But they are not of long term material. Things like genuine kindness, compassion, honesty, openness, forgiveness... these will take you much farther.



> I don't know what you mean by character...
> 
> You say you would walk right by me, and thus you proved my point that a list is crucial or I am wasting my time.


Meh. I have no strong position on list vs no list. But the things ON your list don't strike me as long term characteristics. And I think you must be looking long term if one of your listy things is want to have kids.


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## pragmaster (May 7, 2014)

NobodySpecial said:


> What I think it is is that by putting down those "betaized" married men, you are giving clues to yourself about your real confidence. And it does not tell the best story. Confident people don't put other people down.
> 
> As an exercise, try to frame the response the way MEM did in your mind and see how it fits. Does it feel any different?


I understand the logic and know what you mean, but I really didn't think I was putting anyone down.

I'll have to keep an eye on that. Thanks! 

Back to subject.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I'd say that how reasonable your list is can be somewhat measured by how much success you're having finding someone that fits it and who's into you. 

I find it a little strange that she has to accept pot but you don't accept cigarettes, but whatever. 

I'd suggest you think long and hard about what you have to offer the woman you want and whether said woman would want it. Not because I'm implying you're no good but because I think it's a good idea for everyone. 

I have a very dear friend who's in his 50's that has extremely high opinions regarding what he's entitled to. Nice enough guy to know but not attractive, short, and tempermental. On some level he seems to know that this is why he's single but is still trying to shop via online dating with no success. 

And as i recall you have some empathy issues, that will drive a lot of women away. You should work on that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## pragmaster (May 7, 2014)

NobodySpecial said:


> Techie, techie!
> 
> I confess that I have not followed any previous threads of yours. Are you young? Liking smoking pot and being quiet are personality traits not character traits. Character traits are things that are really important to you. Things you *value*. And as a female who is probably WAY older than you, what you claim to value is pretty shallow. That's ok. If you are really young, you will grow into different values. Those kids you speak of will drag it out of you!
> 
> ...


Hey no worries.

Yes, 26.

Ah I see. Yes long-term. 

All of those character traits you mentioned are obvious yes's for me. I totally forget that some people lack those traits. If I had to pick 3 they would be:

-Strong willed and determined
-Honest, Open
-Forgiving. 

I'll add that to the list! 

Thank you!


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

I must admit. I find it interesting that some are offended by OP's list.

Maybe it's because it's in black and white and not some mental list?

I mean, come on. I've got a list. You've got a list. I think we all have a list. Sure, it might not be written down, but it's rattling around in our brains. Truth be told, my list would be quite shallow, too. I'd have some virtuous items listed, but if I'm not at first blush physically attracted to the potential mate, why bother w/the rest? Been there done that. Spare me the 'beauty is from within!' BS. Sure, while it can be true, if you don't have that initial sexual spark, it's a long haul to get there.

Ever since I was young (*cough* a loooong time ago!) I've known about 'the list.' Women's magazines tell us to make a list for a potential mate so as not to decrease our expectations and settle. Therapists tell us to make a list so as not to choose the wrong one yet again and to improve our pickers.

I get that OP is young and is more geared toward physical attributes. 
He was called out on that and has adjusted his list accordingly.

I wonder if the outcry would be the same if the author of the list was a woman? I feel there'd be a unanimous cry of "YOU GO GIRL!"

Not judging. Just an observation. :smile2:


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## pragmaster (May 7, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> I'd say that how reasonable your list is can be somewhat measured by how much success you're having finding someone that fits it and who's into you.
> 
> I find it a little strange that she has to accept pot but you don't accept cigarettes, but whatever.
> 
> ...


Holy crap. That's a great question!!! My god! I have never even thought about this.

Please don't laugh, but this is all I can think of for the moment. Maybe explains a lot. I don't really know what I have to offer apart from this: 

-Unconditional love 
-Honesty, transparency & loyalty 
-Humor and relaxed lifestyle.
-Patient, a good listener, emotionally available
-Strong family support and good friends
-I love to shop, cook, clean, travel and work

-Financial support (?). I have no problem with a partner who doesn't work. 
-Good genes (?)
-I'm a musician (?)

Don't know about the last three but put them there anyways.


You mentioned empathy. I checked this with a few friends. I don't lack empathy after all. It's selective. Turns out I am a great listener too. 

I have very selfish tendencies, but I am working on it. This really puts things in perspective. I know I have a lot to offer, but narrowing it down is almost more beneficial then my original intent with this thread.

And yes, I second what was previously said. I have been down the road of "inner beauty" and that got me nowhere. At the bare minimum I need a strong physical attraction.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

pragmaster said:


> Holy crap. That's a great question!!! My god! I have never even thought about this.
> 
> Please don't laugh, but this is all I can think of for the moment. Maybe explains a lot. I don't really know what I have to offer apart from this:
> 
> ...




Everyone needs physical attraction. If more women looked for it there would be fewer sexless marriages.

I think at the very least you should be able to reciprocate most of what you want. Maybe not long hair  but even a woman with short hair might grow it out if she likes you and it would make you happy. I'd probably keep that as a would like to have but not imperative.

Try comparing the list you made of your qualities to the list you want and see how well they mesh.

It's good you have empathy, that's a big plus. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## scatty (Mar 15, 2013)

People make lists all the time- lists are LOGICAL, RATIONAL and MAKE SENSE! People, not so much! You will find someone who makes you FEEL like you want to FEEL and things like wit and character are highly subjective. 

She will want you to WANT to be a better man. You will make her want to become a better woman- not altering each others personalities, but EXPANDING on them, opening the mind, heart and soul. My grocery list may include fruits and veggies, but I can't tell ya how many times I ended up with SPICY SALSA and ICE CREAM in my cart!


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## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

Here's what I think is missing: 

- How do you want her to be with money? Spender? Saver? (are you financially compatible?)
- How often do you want to have sex? What things do you want to do when you're having sex? (are you sexually compatible?)
- When you have kids, how will you raise them? (Are you compatible as parents?)
- When the two of you have conflict, how would you like to resolve it? (Are you compatible in your communication styles?)

I've been married and divorced twice and various minor relationships. What has been missing until now is compatibility in the areas above. And what I've found now that I have a compatible partner is that it is SO easy. No work. No bad drama. 

Sexual compatibility is HUGE, as you may have noticed on this forum. 

In re: manifestation.

I'm not sure I entirely believe in manifestation, but a little while ago I came across a list that I made of the partner I wanted and had just filed away somewhere and forgot about. My boyfriend is everything on the list...and some other things that weren't on the list but that I'd repeatedly told myself I would like, even down to the profession. I'd said several times that I'd like to date a Paramedic. My BF is a paramedic.


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## pragmaster (May 7, 2014)

firebelly1 said:


> Here's what I think is missing:
> 
> - How do you want her to be with money? Spender? Saver? (are you financially compatible?)
> - How often do you want to have sex? What things do you want to do when you're having sex? (are you sexually compatible?)
> ...


Great post!

I'll answer in the order they were asked:

-Money? Don't care. It's her money. She can do what she wants. I'd rather not share everything again like in marriage. I'm looking for something longterm, but I don't think I'd get remarried again. Ideally not a crazy spender because I am one. 

-Sex? 3 times a week, but I rather quality then quantity. Main thing is that she is on birth control and or don't need to use protection. 

-Raising Kids? I have no idea. Tough love? Not sure! Cross that bridge when I get there. The main thing is I would not force religion onto them. 

-Conflict resolution? Great thought. Not sure! 

I tend to deal with things as they come instead of planning for them. 

Thanks!!


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## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

pragmaster said:


> Great post!
> 
> I'll answer in the order they were asked:
> 
> ...


So...you want to keep your money in separate accounts? How would household bills get divvied up? Who would pay the bills? 

When you have sex....is oral a given? How 'bout anal? Do you have any kinks that you want her to participate in or tolerate? Are you okay with being awakened to have sex? Do you want her to be? Do you expect monogamy from yourself and her?

You aren't religious? Or are, but think the kids should be able to decide for themselves? Would you have them attend church, or not? Would you be okay with someone who wanted to take them to church? Or synagogue?

All of those questions are really unromantic, but if you don't think and talk about them ahead of time, they can become things that will end your relationship.


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## pragmaster (May 7, 2014)

firebelly1 said:


> So...you want to keep your money in separate accounts? How would household bills get divvied up? Who would pay the bills?
> 
> When you have sex....is oral a given? How 'bout anal? Do you have any kinks that you want her to participate in or tolerate? Are you okay with being awakened to have sex? Do you want her to be? Do you expect monogamy from yourself and her?
> 
> ...


-It totally depends. I'm not a jew, so I doubt that would be an issue but ideally whats yours is yours and whats mine is mine. If she moved in I'd except her to pay some of the utilities & food but that's it. Presently I own a house, so it's all in my name. If I bought a new house with a new woman, yes, an important discussion would have to be made. 

-Oral is meh. Happy to give it. Same with anal. Not into it myself but happy to provide. No kinks. Yes awakened is cool. Well yeah monogamous is expected. I hear you. 

-I am spiritual but not religious. I would rather not ever date a christian/catholic ever again. The whole church thing is insane. Totally would not be okay with that but at the same time I am all for letting them discover those things themselves and if that's what they want, well so be it. Definitely would not be a controlling parent. 

I hear you! Great to cover. The church thing was a good example that hurt my past marriage. She started resenting me because I never went to church with her (yet she, a Christian, married a shaman, who is a borderline satanist occultist). 



Lol. Yes, I'm a young man fyi.


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## coffee4me (Feb 6, 2013)

You need to think more on the financial aspect of your list. Above you said that you have no problem supporting a partner that does not work. Then in another post you said that what's hers is hers and what's yours is yours. If she moved in you would expect her to contribute financially with groceries etc. how would she do that if she doesn't work?


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## pragmaster (May 7, 2014)

coffee4me said:


> You need to think more on the financial aspect of your list. Above you said that you have no problem supporting a partner that does not work. Then in another post you said that what's hers is hers and what's yours is yours. If she moved in you would expect her to contribute financially with groceries etc. how would she do that if she doesn't work?


I don't think there is anything to think about really. 

If I met my dream woman and she was ready to move in tomorrow, I could not support her financially, regardless if I wanted to or not I just can't afford it. She would have to get at least a part-time job, but what I meant was that I don't mind a stay-home mom. I would totally make sacrifices at that time to support her. 

At the end of the day I am flexible and not greedy and would be open to changes if or when that time would come. 

The part that I don't look forward to is sharing my bed. lol.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Prag 

You would benefit enormously from a solid male role model. 

Your current mindset will not get you anywhere close to where you want to be. 

While you claim to really want help, I think you're way less open to feedback than you realize. 



QUOTE=pragmaster;13063034]-It totally depends. I'm not a jew, so I doubt that would be an issue but ideally whats yours is yours and whats mine is mine. If she moved in I'd except her to pay some of the utilities & food but that's it. Presently I own a house, so it's all in my name. If I bought a new house with a new woman, yes, an important discussion would have to be made. 

-Oral is meh. Happy to give it. Same with anal. Not into it myself but happy to provide. No kinks. Yes awakened is cool. Well yeah monogamous is expected. I hear you. 

-I am spiritual but not religious. I would rather not ever date a christian/catholic ever again. The whole church thing is insane. Totally would not be okay with that but at the same time I am all for letting them discover those things themselves and if that's what they want, well so be it. Definitely would not be a controlling parent. 

I hear you! Great to cover. The church thing was a good example that hurt my past marriage. She started resenting me because I never went to church with her (yet she, a Christian, married a shaman, who is a borderline satanist occultist). 



Lol. Yes, I'm a young man fyi.[/QUOTE]


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## pragmaster (May 7, 2014)

Probably. Lol. I do have a couple role models, but when I think of them and their relationships it's not all bubbly fun. It's open communication and hard work. I'm not even at that stage yet so I just don't see what's the point. 

What all mindsets are there? I am confused by what you mean. What mindset are you talking about? Please be honest. I don't care if you rip me a new bumhole. 

What's the "correct" way to respond to posts on forum then? 

How can I show you guys that I am open to feedback? 

I am open to it.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

For instance - this wholesale dismissal of religion and religious groups. 

Disclaimer: I'm not religious, so you didn't offend me. But M2 is religious and she's also a terrific partner with great values. 

The country is FULL of Christian women with solid values who would make great partners and great parents. Yes - they go to Church once a week. Is that really your basis for eliminating them?

BTW - religious doesn't mean:
- close minded or 
- prudish about sex or
- intolerant of others viewpoints or religions

It simply means they have a playbook they try hard to follow. 

You are VERY quick to dismiss large, diverse groups of people. 

FYI: I told my wife that Catholic was fine as long as she could skip the rules on artificial birth control. She was ok with that. We've never fought about religion in 25 years. 



QUOTE=pragmaster;13063730]Probably. Lol. I do have a couple role models, but when I think of them and their relationships it's not all bubbly fun. It's open communication and hard work. I'm not even at that stage yet so I just don't see what's the point. 

What all mindsets are there? I am confused by what you mean. What mindset are you talking about? Please be honest. I don't care if you rip me a new bumhole. 

What's the "correct" way to respond to posts on forum then? 

How can I show you guys that I am open to feedback? 

I am open to it.[/QUOTE]


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> For instance - this wholesale dismissal of religion and religious groups.
> 
> Disclaimer: I'm not religious, so you didn't offend me. But M2 is religious and she's also a terrific partner with great values.
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]


Yep. My hb is a practicing methodist and I'm a non practicing jew. We've never had an argument about religion, he goes church whenever he wants to and sometimes on the holidays I'll join him. I think he knows I don't buy it but he appreciates that I go, even though I'll show up with my star of David pendant for all to see.

And every time they preach about Christ hailing from the house of David I turn to him and say "you're welcome" . We both get a laugh. 

He told me that right before he met me he asked God to send him someone special, so what did he get? A jew. I tell him that God must know what he's doing .....hb is probably one of the few who can handle me and God knows it 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

I think, too, you're glossing over what might be a major issue in finding a compatible long-term partner. You want to have children, but you just said in a recent post that don't want to get married again. There's nothing wrong with that, and there are women who will be happy with that scenario. However, it's a position that's likely to limit the pool of women who would be compatible with you. And it's something you should disclose to potential partners early in the dating process.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

What is 420 friendly?

As for religion I think it is a huge issue for some. I am not religious and would never enter into a serious relationship with a religious person as I cannot take them seriously, religion is for fools IMHO.

Your list is OK OP, we all have our wants/needs, it can be a work in progress, you can modify it at any time. It is good to know what you do and don't want, it helps narrow the field down if you are looking for a serious relationship. I have certain requirements that others may find inane but they suit me and what I want in life. Tall, wealthy, highly sexual, same nationality, not religious, high IQ and EQ etc. Post divorce I made sure I knew exactly the type of man I wanted and only casually dated any that did not fit my criteria. I did then meet the man that fit my criteria pretty much perfectly and all is going well.


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## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

420 friendly means okay with him smoking pot.


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## SurpriseMyself (Nov 14, 2009)

pragmaster said:


> Hey no worries.
> 
> Yes, 26.
> 
> ...


Your list is rather strange to me. You want a strong-willed and determined woman who is open, honest and yet quiet and happy with you smoking pot regularly. I don't know that I've ever met such a woman. I know a woman who is many of those things, except she is not strong-willed/determined. I'm not sure you can find all of those disperete traits in a single person.

Also, the 420 thing is fine now, but few women want a 420 man to grow old with. I would think a strong-willed and determined woman would grow tired of that lifestyle.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## pragmaster (May 7, 2014)

Hey everyone, thanks again for the insightful posts.

Few comments to things said above:

-420 friendly doesn't necessarily mean she has to smoke or be cool with me smoking all the time. She just has to be pro-cannabis. I don't smoke much and certainly don't plan on smoking past my 30's anyways, but I can't stand people against pot. Tobacco is disgusting and totally different fyi. Can't stand ignorance on this subject. 

As for the religious comment, yes, I am more than happy to exclude a chunk of the population based on far fetched beliefs even if it slims my chances. Yes, there are lots of people that would tolerate other faiths, but I am not one of them. My ex-wife was a born again christian. I am into the occult and shamanism. I thought it didn't matter and I could put it aside, but you know what it mattered a lot. She started resenting me for not going to church with her. She resented for meditating and she hated when I talked about it. Why didn't I go to church with her you ask? Because it's all bull****, based on fear-based dynamics to control people and it made me sick to witness. I can't stand people who expect to be forgiven for everything yet do no work at all on their behaviors or habits that caused them to "sin" in the first place. There are for sure exceptions out there but for me currently it's an instant turn-off. I want to be able to speak my mind clearly about this subject without having to walk on eggshells. I like philosophy, debate and pondering. Can't do that with everyone. 

Fact is I believe in reincarnation, spirit guides and support eastern religions (i.e. Hinduism, Taoism, Buddhism) and I refuse to have my partner teach my kid the Jesus bull****. He was real (history has proven that), but lots of the material was excluded when the Bible was modified by the Nicene council in the early AD's. Sorry if I am little offensive here but this truly is a must have. She doesn't have to be a particular religion, but I simply could not be with someone longterm if they were christian, catholic, muslim or atheist, out of experience and personal preference. 

Lately I've been finding that more and more people are becoming aware and spiritually awake. Seems to getting less and less harder. 

I will also have you know, that since I've started working on this list last week, I've met quite a few women that meet my list. Maybe it's just because I know what I want I can filter through them quicker, or maybe it's just the universe answering my call, but lately they seem much easier to find and I don't know why. 

Knowing what you want and sticking to it creates interesting results!!

Yes, I am strange. Maybe I need a strange woman. . Variety is nice though... I can't say I'd want to date my exact self. Bahahaha.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

The 'she's free to do and be accepting of whatever she likes' generally discount the other person's desire to include YOU in their life, no?


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

SurpriseMyself said:


> You want a strong-willed and determined woman who is open, honest and yet quiet and happy with you smoking pot regularly. I don't know that I've ever met such a woman. I know a woman who is many of those things, except she is not strong-willed/determined. I'm not sure you can find all of those disperete traits in a single person.
> Also, the 420 thing is fine now, but few women want a 420 man to grow old with. I would think a strong-willed and determined woman would grow tired of that lifestyle.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Speaking up for the older, strong-willed and determined women!

Including myself, I know quite a few successful, career-driven, independent, and respectful women who are wives and mothers that are not only 420 friendly, but who imbibe as well. We're out there. More than anyone can imagine. You'd be really surprised.:smile2:

I'll also say it's not really a 'lifestyle.' It's no different than a beer after work. Well, for us responsible users. But of course, there's always those who abuse it, just like anything else and ruins it for the rest of us. :smile2:


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Lol, I remember my last commander standing in front of us and proudly proclaiming that he donates to groups that want to legalize pot. 

As he put it, "we get why it's forbidden for military. But damnit, i fought hard enough and long enough to deserve to be allowed to toke up once in a while when I get out!"

Lol, funny man.

You can find 420 friendly people everywhere.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

lucy999 said:


> I must admit. I find it interesting that some are offended by OP's list.
> 
> Maybe it's because it's in black and white and not some mental list?
> 
> I mean, come on. I've got a list. You've got a list. I think we all have a list.


Some of us are reacting to prag's list because we've read his other threads and have more background knowledge as well as a context for understanding his comments.

That's the problem with repeatedly starting new threads. Readers are left with only a "snapshot" of the OP's comment of the day, rather than basing their comments on the total picture.

Like the fact that prag is divorced, a Wiccan, super-self conscious about his short stature, and self-admittedly very narcissistic. He admittedly blows off everyone in his life who he deems less worthy or not worth his time. It changes the whole flavor of one's advice.

My advice? Stick to one thread, prag.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## pragmaster (May 7, 2014)

Yeahhhhh. But people change.

Yesterday I was a different person. . People don't need to know all of that. 

Thanks for the posts everyone. This can be closed.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

pragmaster said:


> People don't need to know all of that.


Ahhhh.... But therein lies the very problem prag...

A partner DOES need to know all of that. Because that is who you are. As they say, "To thine own self be true".... (And presumably to others, too)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SurpriseMyself (Nov 14, 2009)

I'm not against 420 myself, and have definitely had my share in the past. But to put it first on your list seems like it's of great importance, which is why I pointed it out.

It will probably be legal across the US in the next 10 years, but still it doesn't seem like I've met any women that are good with 420 in their 20s who are also also all the over traits you described.

Still, it only takes one. Good luck!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Anyone who has such a list for future partnership is doomed to failure and singledom. 

We all have general basics ie no cheating, similar outlook on life, no racist or sexist tendencies etc....A full extensive list though!?! 

This thread is hilarious. I love the inconsistencies and the 'I can but they can't ' attitude. Fabulous! Keep it up because you will save a lot of women from a lot of wasted time! 

My list is 1. We get along 2. We help each other out and work as a team 3. We fancy each other 4. We get along 
Works well for me 

I had a friend once who had a long list. No brown shoes was on that list. She was a negative person. She's still single. Very attractive to look at, but can't keep hold of a man, or even, ditches them because they don't match up to her list!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Maneo (Dec 4, 2012)

“Wisdom is intelligence in context.” 
― Raheel Farooq

If you don't have either the context or the intelligence to place things in context, there is no wisdom, nor, in the context of this thread, a happy ending with a dream girl.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

So, in reading some of the questions posed by other TAMers to @pragmaster to help him refine his list, it made me think. A long time ago, shortly after I married, I came across the following book. I wish I had found it BEFORE I was married, but que sera, sera.

The Hard Questions

Anyway, the premise of the book is: these are the questions that you should be asking your SO before you tie the knot, to make sure you're really compatible. But really, these are the questions you should be looking at way earlier, before you fall in love with someone who isn't actually compatible with you, and before you marry that person because you're all buzzy on love hormones.

And then I thought--going through all these questions and answering them for oneself, while single (and not while potentially influenced by a current partner) is a great way to refine your list and make is more precise. Maybe not all the questions will be useful, but I think that some of them will.


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## pragmaster (May 7, 2014)

You guys are funny. 

I used to give (and still do to some extent) everyone a chance whether they met my list or not. That's actually been my problem for a number of years. I am tired of taking all I can get and wasting my time on women I am not actually interested in. It has happened far too much. I've been really bad for that in the past. I've become quite intuitive and can tell within less than a minute if it's going to work out. Jedi training!!! The fear of loss and the fear of being alone is gone. I am super content and happy with my life right now. If someone else is going to come in the picture I am going to make sure it's what I want. I don't care how nice a girl is and how much she is willing to change, yada yada. Think of it like a job interview. I'm the boss and this is my life. 

Despite the negative feedback about this "list", it's taken me quite a lot of work to get this far. I used to take all that I can get and let women treat me like **** like I said. Now that I know what I want the universe is responding. Everything is flowing much better in fact. Some things in my list might not make sense to you guys, and rightfully so they shouldn't. I can tell you all about me and bull**** until the cows come home, but you don't know me, and so don't judge if you don't know the context. 

I highly recommend to any young person not sure what they want in a partner to make a list. It's not a bad thing. We all know what we want and there is nothing wrong with saying no to people we know don't meet our criteria. I am not better than anyone else and I believe we are all entitled to get what we want and deserve. There are 7billion other monkeys out there. There are for sure many candidates. It's just a list. Everyone's got one whether written or not. This is my dream girl. Keep that in mind. Some dreams get realized and some don't, but here is hoping.

Heck, I don't even care to date my dream girl. Just being friends is good enough for me. I'm young and I have lots of time. 

And for the record, we can be as picky and judgmental as we want. There is nothing wrong with being meticulous. 

Read up some Thelema. "Do as thou wilt and love is the law ".


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## scatty (Mar 15, 2013)

Another problem with this list, is that people are usually on their best behavior at first. Some can put up a charade for years. Also, people can change. Sometime a lot! So that "perfect girl" might not be so great after all.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

scatty said:


> Another problem with this list, is that *people are usually on their best behavior at first. Some can put up a charade for years.* Also, people can change. Sometime a lot! So that "perfect girl" might not be so great after all.


Yup... that was my XH...


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## pragmaster (May 7, 2014)

I agree 100%.

My X was life that.

Main thing for me is the basic spirituality alignment and a body that I find attractive. 420 friendly and all other stuff would be nice but meh.

Rambling is fun sometimes.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

The contradictions in this post - saying it'd be ok to be friendliness by a highly compatible woman - are glaring.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

MEM11363 said:


> For instance - this wholesale dismissal of religion and religious groups.
> 
> Disclaimer: I'm not religious, so you didn't offend me. *But M2 is religious and she's also a terrific partner with great values.
> 
> ...


 Just wanted to say "I appreciate your post " Mem! 

When I 1st read his opening list of qualifications.. I felt he stereotyped the type of women I AM when he spit on the conservative / Traditional /anything christian... just thought to myself.. .he wouldn't be my type either then! 

Realistically speaking .. I think we all "stereotype" to some degree ...so I can't be too hard on him.... most conservatives will not be *420 friendly*" - this is true... I had no idea what that was.. googled it just now... " One who specifies and arranges a date with someone who is cool with pot smoking to the point of excluding those who do not condone the practice."

I would think this way, doing my own stereotyping, about men who drink too much / party too much ...an occasional pot smoker would not be a deal breaker for me.. but if all that other was going on.. it would be ....


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

SA,

Yes - we all stereotype. That said, there are two radically different approaches to stereotyping:

1. People in this group 'tend' to have certain traits I'm not keen on and when I meet folks in that group, I politely figure that out fairly fast. 

2. People in this group HAVE these traits and are therefore not a fit for me. 

Either way, it doesn't matter WRT this thread as the OP falls in the subset of posters who speak a totally foreign language to me. 

And my earlier post got auto corrected incorrectly. 

It should have said: No way in hell is Prag going to be happy finding Mrs. Right and having her FRIEND ZONE him. 

It's his tendency to say things like that and like: kids are fine marriage is out. 

I'm fine with a partner not working, my money is mine.

It's ok to be conflicted. Not ok to inflict your conflicts on a partner by saying totally contradictory things. 






SimplyAmorous said:


> Just wanted to say "I appreciate your post " Mem!
> 
> When I 1st read his opening list of qualifications.. I felt he stereotyped the type of women I AM when he spit on the conservative / Traditional /anything christian... just thought to myself.. .he wouldn't be my type either then!
> 
> ...


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## pragmaster (May 7, 2014)

Remember folks, I am the pragmaster!  It totally depends. Everything is circumstantial, for me. I appreciate your willingness to try and understand my scattered non-linear mentality. To some I may appear as conflicted or undecided, but I am actually just happy go lucky gemini.    I'm not conflicted at all. Just picky. Like Jerry Seinfeld. Lol. 

"she had man hands"


I was talking to a friend the other day and she said something that made me smile. She said, you know, you are a weird person. You're like half hippy half scientist. On one hand you like to relax, lay-back, be patient, smoke pot, talk about the universe and philosophy and on the other you are a really analytical, quick witted, detailed oriented perfectionist. Yup that's me. 

All it takes is someone who accepts the other, not a clone. 

I will have you know I met an amazing woman recently who not only met my list but passed with flying colors. I know some of you said my list was a pie in the sky, but really, it's not. Heck, I am still so young and naive and have so much to learn about myself and the universe. Maybe relationships aren't meant for everyone, but it's all good! There's no rush. All in time. The universe loves us and everything is perfectly imperfect. 

Thread can be closed! I got the answers I needed. Thanks everyone.


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