# Question about Revenge Affairs or free pass



## TOMTEFAR (Feb 23, 2013)

Hello,

I have a bit of conflicting thoughts about RA or free passes. A lot of you have written about RA or free passes not being a good or helpfull thing and advice BS's to stay away from them.

Why are they bad? 

What good could get from a RA or free pass?

I'm conflicted because I would like a free pass. Not a RA because that would not equal the WS A since you would not put to much thought intop it but rather pick the first one comming your way. I would rather wait a few months and pick somebody special to make it worse for the WS. Childish I know, hence my confilcted thougts about it. I just can't help myslelf feeling that i want revenge.


----------



## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

So why stay married?
Divorce = free pass!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BlackjackBob (Nov 9, 2012)

By retaliating with an affair of your own, you're invalidating any fault you've placed on your spouse due to their affair, reducing if not invalidating any claims you've made to your spouse regarding how you were emotionally hurt and betrayed due to their affair. Aside from holding your spouse to a different standard than yourself, you're sending a clear message to your spouse that it is okay to have an affair by having one yourself. 

Your spouse cheats on you, you get revenge by cheating on your spouse, your spouse then gets revenge by cheating on you again, you get revenge... so on. You get the picture. You may as well suggest an open relationship if you're going to stay in, and go the RA path.

Revenge affairs are not the answer, and only make a monumental betrayal unfathomably bigger. An RA isn't the answer, my friend. Handle the situation the right way. No matter how it ends up, you'll be happier and a better person in the end.


----------



## Rags (Aug 2, 2010)

I would suggest that RA != to a Free Pass.

A RA is done without WS consent, to hurt them.

A FP is given to allow the BS to experience what the WS did, but without the lies and betrayal (in theory.)

FP is more like a, supposedly temporary, open marriage.

I don't think either are a good idea, but I don't think they're the same, either.


----------



## TOMTEFAR (Feb 23, 2013)

BlackjackBob said:


> By retaliating with an affair of your own, you're invalidating any fault you've placed on your spouse due to their affair, reducing if not invalidating any claims you've made to your spouse regarding how you were emotionally hurt and betrayed due to their affair. Aside from holding your spouse to a different standard than yourself, you're sending a clear message to your spouse that it is okay to have an affair by having one yourself.
> 
> Your spouse cheats on you, you get revenge by cheating on your spouse, your spouse then gets revenge by cheating on you again, you get revenge... so on. You get the picture. You may as well suggest an open relationship if you're going to stay in, and go the RA path.
> 
> Revenge affairs are not the answer, and only make a monumental betrayal unfathomably bigger. An RA isn't the answer, my friend. Handle the situation the right way. No matter how it ends up, you'll be happier and a better person in the end.


I'm not saying that I would do it behind the WS back. It would be out in the open, just not when or with who. I think there is a big difference in the original A and the RA. The RA would never have happened if the WS didn't have the initial A. Therefore, for me it doesn't invaludate any fault. It happens as a concequence of the cheating. 

I find that in many other cases giving back is thought normal and doesn't invalidate any fault. 

Also the thought of a RA is only in the case that you are doing R. Hence, a RA for a RA would just mean D right away. This should obviously be clear to the WS. 

I guess I'm entertaining the thought of having the WS feel your pain and also being allowed the cake eating the the WS got. Somewhat childish yes but also as a means of not feeling left out and as a means to R on an even ground.


----------



## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

TOMTEFAR said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have a bit of conflicting thoughts about RA or free passes. A lot of you have written about RA or free passes not being a good or helpfull thing and advice BS's to stay away from them.
> 
> ...


The wanting revenge is natural. You want them to feel the pain you feel. What if you have the revenge affair, and it doesn't make her hurt as bad as you did from her affair? And it doesn't seem to affect her at all? And she actually seems happy about it? And she starts telling everyone, he cheated on me? There's a lot that could go wrong with revenge affairs. How do you see a revenge affair (or a free pass) playing out, what you would do and what her reaction would be?

Very few people posting here have had revenge affairs or taken a free pass.

People who have almost all have stated that it did NOT help their marriages recover and it did NOT help them feel the playing field had been levelled. The most common thing I remember seeing is that it made them feel worse because they did something that was against their own morals.


----------



## TOMTEFAR (Feb 23, 2013)

daisygirl 41 said:


> So why stay married?
> Divorce = free pass!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If D then there is no reason at all. But as a way of coping with R.


----------



## TOMTEFAR (Feb 23, 2013)

Rags said:


> I would suggest that RA != to a Free Pass.
> 
> A RA is done without WS consent, to hurt them.
> 
> ...


I agree. I meant it not be be hidden. It would be in the open but not open with who or when.


----------



## rrrbbbttt (Apr 6, 2011)

Simple analysis on my part:

You had a value system when you made your vows to your spouse.

You held to that value system, that is your internal integrity.

Your spouse violated thier vows to you, that is their internal integrity. This hurt you and is causing you to go through 
anguish and emotional pain.

You now want to either have a FP or a RA. This will be against your value system of when you made your vows.

You lessen yourself as an individual because it shows that your internal integrity can be changed for a simple process.

If so, run for election they have a lot of these people in Washington, you'll fit right in.


----------



## Rags (Aug 2, 2010)

I think a free pass would still be damaging, to you, to what's left of the relationship, and to the WS.

I can see the temptation (let's face it, different sex partner is a common fantasy, and is very erotic) and the 'it's only fair' justification.

But I don't think any of the situation is fair, and I think it would likely only cause more problems, if you really do want a proper reconcilliation.


----------



## TOMTEFAR (Feb 23, 2013)

Will_Kane said:


> The wanting revenge is natural. You want them to feel the pain you feel. What if you have the revenge affair, and it doesn't make her hurt as bad as you did from her affair? And it doesn't seem to affect her at all? And she actually seems happy about it? And she starts telling everyone, he cheated on me? There's a lot that could go wrong with revenge affairs. How do you see a revenge affair (or a free pass) playing out, what you would do and what her reaction would be?
> 
> Very few people posting here have had revenge affairs or taken a free pass.
> 
> People who have almost all have stated that it did NOT help their marriages recover and it did NOT help them feel the playing field had been levelled. The most common thing I remember seeing is that it made them feel worse because they did something that was against their own morals.


Lets drop the RA. I never meant for it to be hidden. So a free pass would be what I thought about. However, when or with who would be hidden. Hence, the WS wouldn't be able to say: He/She cheated on me.

If the WS would feel sorry or even happy then I guess depending on the reasons why the WS doesn't feel what I expect D might be in order.

I don't even know if I would have act on a free pass. Perhaps letting her know I hade, but not actually had, would suffice.

I can see that moral issues might become an issue for some. However, I somewhat harber the thought that by the WS actions the WS have invalidated a lot of the issues I woudl have about it.

Obviously the feeling of having the playingfeild leveld will not be there since you didn't do it behind the WS back. My feel is thought that it would narrow the gap a bit at least making the A a bit easier to handle.

I have also noticed that most people posting here advice against it. But I have also read alot of people posting that mentaly or physically checking out of the M after the A and dating and sleeping with others helped in several ways even if they did eventually R.

So does it boild down to OK if you mentaly check out, even if you try R later on, and NOT OK if you stay to work it out?

I would realy like to know some more from those that have done the free pass.


----------



## TOMTEFAR (Feb 23, 2013)

rrrbbbttt said:


> Simple analysis on my part:
> 
> You had a value system when you made your vows to your spouse.
> 
> ...


But havent the WS just nuked the value system. Is it still valid? I understand that for some it is and those are the ones that feel realy bad acting on a free pass. I guess my feelings is that the M is dead. If we do a R there would eventually have to be a new M.


----------



## TOMTEFAR (Feb 23, 2013)

Rags said:


> I think a free pass would still be damaging, to you, to what's left of the relationship, and to the WS.
> 
> I can see the temptation (let's face it, different sex partner is a common fantasy, and is very erotic) and the 'it's only fair' justification.
> 
> But I don't think any of the situation is fair, and I think it would likely only cause more problems, if you really do want a proper reconcilliation.


I'm aware that it would cause more problems. Perhaps for me but definately for the WS. But is that nessesary a bad thing? Is it bad for the WS to feel what the BS is feeling? Might it also be possitive in allowing the WS to experience some of the pain the BS is feeling? Thus making the R easier because you somewhat understand the consequences?


----------



## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

My thought is if you really want to R, why would you even entertain the thoughts of bringing someone else into the mix? Whether RA or FP, it is irrelevant. If you are R'ing, why would you bring someone else in, knowing there is a very real possibility that you could end up splitting because you got "too close" to your AP? If you want to have someone else, even for a short time, don't plan on a R. Just separate and divorce. 

I am not going to say that you can't or shouldn't see people while separated, and while starting divorce proceedings. But I do know the very real possibility of R after separation is there. I think THAT lessens the blow, not that I think it's right, but if there is NO plan to R at the time separated/divorcing, I wouldn't argue whether it is right or not. But to have a "FP" while trying to R? No, I don't think that is right at all.


----------



## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

TOMTEFAR said:


> But havent the WS just nuked the value system. Is it still valid? I understand that for some it is and those are the ones that feel realy bad acting on a free pass. I guess my feelings is that the M is dead. If we do a R there would eventually have to be a new M.


The WS nukes his or her own value system... NOT THE BS's values.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Because my revenge affair (which was accidental, btw) hurt my wife, the OW (who had been a friend) and me. In fact my revenge affair hurt me more than my wife's affair had hurt me!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TOMTEFAR (Feb 23, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Because my revenge affair (which was accidental, btw) hurt my wife, the OW (who had been a friend) and me. In fact my revenge affair hurt me more than my wife's affair had hurt me!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why did it hurt you? 

I also don't think having a FP should be with someone neither the BS or WS knows prior. Mixing in friends into it would complecate matters immensly.


----------



## Rags (Aug 2, 2010)

TOMTEFAR said:


> I'm aware that it would cause more problems. Perhaps for me but definately for the WS. But is that nessesary a bad thing? Is it bad for the WS to feel what the BS is feeling? Might it also be possitive in allowing the WS to experience some of the pain the BS is feeling? Thus making the R easier because you somewhat understand the consequences?


Honestly, I don't think so.

As I said, I can understand the temptatio and the justification, on several levels - but I don't think the world actually works that way. Taking each point in turn:

* Bad for you - seems clear cut, if it makes you lose self-respect, and causes you regret, this is not going to help you.
* Bad for WS - if you love someone, why do you wantto hurt them (regardless of what they did to you) - especially if you want to continue a relationship with them. If you don't, why not just divorce?
* Bad for WS to feel what you're feeling - yes, I think it's bad - There's the knowing that someone who is supposed to love them intentionally hurt them (which I think is different from the original affair - that was done out of selfishness, but not with an intention to hurt.) Then there's the justification aspect - 'I got away with it by letting him go **** someone else, so I could do so again' - which is a poor path to go down for R.
* Allowing the WS to feel the pain - see previous 2 points - and also, what if she doesn't? Maybe that would be the point at which she decides to detatch and divorce after all (once you're destroyed your own value system.)

If she really does love you, nothing will hurt here more than seeing how much pain she's caused you - except perhaps having you intentionally inflicting it on her. That could destroy her.

I understand the desire for revenge. But it's not healthy - for you, specifically.
If you want revenge and a toxic marriage, or revenge and an exit strategy, at the cost of your self-worth, then this could work for you.

If you want an exit strategy with your values intact, you've got one handed to you. Divorce her. Who could argue?

If you really want Reconcilliation, then there's a lot of work to do - and several couple here who can guide you in that - but I don't believe it ever involves intentionally inflicting pain on your lover (who is your spouse.) There's plenty of unintentional pain around - I don't see that we need add more if we don't have to.


----------



## TOMTEFAR (Feb 23, 2013)

Maricha75 said:


> The WS nukes his or her own value system... NOT THE BS's values.


No but the WS nukes the M vows. I guess I see them as not valid anymore. Hence I have no problems with my value system.


----------



## TOMTEFAR (Feb 23, 2013)

Rags said:


> Honestly, I don't think so.
> 
> As I said, I can understand the temptatio and the justification, on several levels - but I don't think the world actually works that way. Taking each point in turn:
> 
> ...


This was very informative for me. Thanks. You make several very good points here.


----------



## TOMTEFAR (Feb 23, 2013)

Maricha75 said:


> My thought is if you really want to R, why would you even entertain the thoughts of bringing someone else into the mix? Whether RA or FP, it is irrelevant. If you are R'ing, why would you bring someone else in, knowing there is a very real possibility that you could end up splitting because you got "too close" to your AP? If you want to have someone else, even for a short time, don't plan on a R. Just separate and divorce.
> 
> I am not going to say that you can't or shouldn't see people while separated, and while starting divorce proceedings. But I do know the very real possibility of R after separation is there. I think THAT lessens the blow, not that I think it's right, but if there is NO plan to R at the time separated/divorcing, I wouldn't argue whether it is right or not. But to have a "FP" while trying to R? No, I don't think that is right at all.


Revenge is a powerfull emotion... But you do make sence.


----------



## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

tough one I always though and maybe still do that if I caught my wife cheating I would most surley have a revenge affair. and then most likley divorce after.

but until you go through it yourself you never know how you will respond to a crisis situation.

the best revenge as they say is living well after the divorce. don't think theres a whole lot of room for revenge with in a marriage.

at least for people of good moral chachater.


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

even if it's a one time thing, you're essentially asking for an open marriage

as someone who damn near went down that path, I can confidently state that it's a horrible idea


----------



## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

When a WW has an affair they feel their BH will never find out so what is the harm.

Then the WW gets caught, and she sees all the pain her affair caused.

Now the BH knowing first hand the pain of an affair causes wants to deliberately have an affair to cause their WW to feel them same pain.

Why is the BH recovering?

When they want to hurt the person the love in the worst way possible by having a RA.

The above and I have seen many BH's have a RA and afterward they felt they cheated themselves because their RA did nothing for them to heal.

The RA only brings the BH into the gutter. It does not make them a better person.

Also an RA will never undo the OM banging his WW.

A WW's affair sex can never be undone.


----------



## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

I used my FP and have written the story in DD's thread:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/57247-she-cheated-i-hate-my-life-52.html#post1336870
followed by some pages of discussion.

The benefits vs. the damage of a FP totally depends on the situation IMO.


----------



## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

There are lots of reasons not to:
Your fidelity concerns you, not your spouse. Yes, she may get hurt, but you are the one you hurt most by betraying yourself, and your values. Remember, you will always be staring back at yourself in the mirror, and you live with your choices for the rest of your life.

What kind of a person would it make you, if you were willing to use another person in that way, in order to get revenge on your spouse. Pretty ****ing despicable, when you get right down to it. Do you really want to be that person?

Do you actually think you can make your spouse feel your pain like that? You can't. She will never fully get it. She will have it in her mind that she deserves it. That it's her fault. 

That's another thing. She does not actually deserve it, no one does. If you cheat, it will not be her fault, it will be yours. The choice is yours, and yours alone.

Cheating to me reeks of cowardice, selfishness, weakness. Is that what you are? Is that what you want to be?

It isn't cheating though, you say. Bull ****ing ****. It is so. You are still married. You know it, or you wouldn't be asking the question even. If you want to **** around, fine. Get a divorce, and play the field, as someone who is worth something, to themselves and to others.


----------



## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

My Opinions:

*Free pass* may help the BS's sexual ego but won't have the effect of causing the WS similar pain that the BS experiences because it's done the WS's permission. Not very productive in my opinion and I don't recommend it.

*Revenge affair (RA)* may be good for certain people that have the right personality to go through with it. I think it will help the BS's sexual ego and if done properly could level the "playing field" between the BS and the WS and possibly cause the WS some of the same pain experience that the BS went through; which is an added benefit in my opinion. The WS should not know the RA took place until after it happens, if at all. The RA is strictly for the benefit of the BS.

One thing for sure, if you are going to do a free pass or an RA, DO NOT choose a married person as a partner. I would absolutely choose an RA over a free pass if you are going to do one or the other.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

TOMTEFAR said:


> Why did it hurt you?
> 
> I also don't think having a FP should be with someone neither the BS or WS knows prior. Mixing in friends into it would complecate matters immensly.


The guilt. The realisation that I had become a POS.It put me on Seroxat for a while.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

TOMTEFAR said:


> The RA would never have happened if the WS didn't have the initial A.
> *hypothetical, there is no saying an affair wouldnt have happened anyway*
> 
> Therefore, for me it doesn't invaludate any fault. It happens as a concequence of the cheating.
> *this is patently false*


----------



## TOMTEFAR (Feb 23, 2013)

cpacan said:


> I used my FP and have written the story in DD's thread:
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/57247-she-cheated-i-hate-my-life-52.html#post1336870
> followed by some pages of discussion.
> ...


That was a realy interesting story. What do you think would have happened if you had continued your FP as long as your wife had her A? 

I guess everything depends on the BS and WS if a FP is beneficial or not.

Glad everything worked out for you in the end.


----------



## TOMTEFAR (Feb 23, 2013)

The Middleman said:


> My Opinions:
> 
> *Free pass* may help the BS's sexual ego but won't have the effect of causing the WS similar pain that the BS experiences because it's done the WS's permission. Not very productive in my opinion and I don't recommend it.
> 
> ...


I would never do a FP or a RA with a married person.


----------



## TOMTEFAR (Feb 23, 2013)

SadandAngry said:


> There are lots of reasons not to:
> Your fidelity concerns you, not your spouse. Yes, she may get hurt, but you are the one you hurt most by betraying yourself, and your values. Remember, you will always be staring back at yourself in the mirror, and you live with your choices for the rest of your life.
> 
> What kind of a person would it make you, if you were willing to use another person in that way, in order to get revenge on your spouse. Pretty ****ing despicable, when you get right down to it. Do you really want to be that person?
> ...


A RA is cheating a FP is not. I didn't get the real difference untill somebody pointed it out to me. I would never do a RA. I would also never use a person. It would have to be honest in that is only sex nothing else. I agree that the WS wouldn't fully get the pain, but the WS would get some of it and therefore be somewhat able to relate to some of the BS problems.


----------



## brokenhearted118 (Jan 31, 2013)

I completely understand where you are coming from TomTom. I absolutely had thoughts about a RA (never a Free Pass) after DDay. I think it is perfectly normal for you to want your WS to suffer with some level of pain that you experienced. I feel it is like this: If I have to hurt like this, then you should have a taste of your own medicine. Again, I totally get it. But when you step back and really think about the consequences, you soon will realize that the ramifications are just not worth it.

1) You are not being true to you. If you had wanted to have an A, you would have already. It is not in your "make-up" and that is why you are looking for validation and justification to do so. You are a good person who took your vows seriously. Stay true to YOU!

2) Old addage, but 2 wrongs doesn't make it right. Allow Karma and your higher belief system to take hold of it. Trust me, no bad deed goes unpunished. I know, deep in your heart you know that.

3) What does it say about you and the good person that you are deep within? How could you live with yourself and play with an "innocent" persons emotions by having them participate in such a dreadful situation. We all have hearts and emotions, why punish your WS and ANOTHER human being for your own selfish reasons? (also see reason #2 again)

4) What if you do go through with this? What if you pick up a disease? It is possible. Do you have kids? Do you want them or your families/friends to view you in the same light they see your WS? Let them own that horrific shame & humiliation. Your conscious can remain clean. That feels good! What if the RA person is psycho? What if you develop feelings for them? There are way too many what if's!!!

5) Lastly, what is your ultimate "pay-off" here? Yes, the WS gets to experience some level of pain (less, equal, more, who knows) Then what? When the dust settles, what happens next? Think long term...next week, next month, next year, 5 years, etc. Ultimately, what GOOD will you seek, except for a few minutes of revenge. 

Ultimately, the pain we all feel as BS sucks! It really hurts!! I am sorry. Hopefully having other people recognize that you are in pain and validating your feelings offers some solace. Stay strong. Remember, you are in the drivers seat right now and that my friend will take YOU places. Just be sure to take the high road!!


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

ultimately, if you truly want to get some strange solely because she got some strange it is more righteous to D and get your strange because it becomes very likely that if get your strange it will start you on the path of false R and a divorce anyways


----------



## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

i'll put it to you like this,
my wife did it.
and it wasnt worth it for her.
not only did she jeopardize our marriage even further, but the welfare of our kid.
not only did she "show me what it felt like", she crushed me so thouroughly that i very well could have been broken beyond repair.
she played the innocent victim of my infidelities, and for a long time she did it while having her "revenge affair". 
so, now she has to helpo me understand and convince me that no, she isnt an absolutely evil person that was able to carry on like that for TWO YEARS.
and now we have to rebuild our marriage from betrayal on both sides.
so yeah. maybe one day she will come on this forum, and you can ask her if it was worth it.
i bet i know what she will tell you.


----------



## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

A revenge affair wouldn't remove the mental images of
some tattooed stranger pegging my wife twice a week.

It also wouldn't help to heal any of my pain.

Actions done out of revenge and spite are far from the healing variety.

How much fun is sex if there's no passion and the only emotion
involved is of a negative nature?

Then in the end, the person who has the RA has lowered
their own selves to be no better than their cheating WS.
You instantly lose all moral high ground, yet you're stuck with
the same pain of what your WS did, but now you've just added
your own guilt to the equation without even knowing it.

It would come back to bite you in the ass I would imagine.

RA's don't work. Showing your WS real consequences for their
actions is paramount, but nobody benefits in a RA. 
At least from what I've read and experienced.


----------



## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

*Sv: Question about Revenge Affairs or free pass*

OP has corrected and stated that it's a free pass he's thinking about. I suggest we concentrate on that discussion instead of keep pushing the damage done by RA.


----------



## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

I thought about the RA as a way to inflict some pain and teach my exWW what it felt like to be betrayed.

I also started getting very flirty with women just to tick her off. Knowing that I could easily get laid was my ego fix.

In the end the RA was not for me. It simply degrades me as a person to use sex as a weapon. Why cheapen one of my favorite pastimes? Lol! It already became something less than great when my exWW gave hers away.

Better way to get revenge is to emotionally detach, file for divorce, and find a quality person to share your life with. That makes for much better sex in the end. It gives it purpose. It is about love and respect for one that is worthy of it.

Why bother wrestling in the mud with a bad spouse?


----------



## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

Just missed cpacan's point. Lol! I would feel the same about a fp. Why make sex so cheap?


----------



## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

If youre going to have a "free pass", why not just get a divorce?
If you hate what your spouse did to you so much, why lower yourself to the same?
Why not just divorce and be free?
Can you answer that? My wife cant. 
So in the end, in my opinion, a "free pass" isnt any different than a revenge affair. 
Still betraying your spouse an vows, right? So whats the difference? Because WS knows what BS is going to do?
Thats laughable. To me. JMO.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

HELLO!! I can't believe how uninformed people are about STD's!!

Like brokenhearted118 pointed out, you can get a disease - or two! Even if you use a condom!!

Probably one of the worst of those is HPV. It can lead to cervical cancer in women, and oral cancers in both men and women, though men have been getting oral cancers a lot more than women. Even if you don't have oral sex during your FP sex, you can pick up HPV "down there" and bring it home to your wife, THEN if you have oral sex with your wife, you've got it in your mouth!

Think about it as a FREE PASS to have sex with EVERYBODY ELSE this person has had sex with before...


----------



## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Let's jump everybody to the mud!!!!


----------



## All of a sudden (Jan 24, 2013)

I wouldnt want to cause anyone i loved AND WAS GOING TO STAY WITH pain. I think its childish and wrong. You are hurt and devestated, but why make someone you love feel the same way you do. Get a divorce and have all the sex you want. Stupid clique but two wrongs dont make a right.


----------



## TOMTEFAR (Feb 23, 2013)

Bollocks....


I have messed this thread upp a bit. I should have been clearer in my original post. I'm sorry if I missled you. English is not my native language and I miss a few implications in your posts. Hence it took me a while to understand. 

I'm not gonna have a FP or a RA. I do not have a WS but my brother have and he is stuggeling with a lot of theses thoughts, hence my interest.

Many of you are quite negative. To understand the aspects of why it is bad or if there could be anything good about it I need to chanllenge you in this post. In the end I want to advice my brother in the best cause for him to heal as best as possible.


----------



## TOMTEFAR (Feb 23, 2013)

All of a sudden said:


> I wouldnt want to cause anyone i loved AND WAS GOING TO STAY WITH pain. I think its childish and wrong. You are hurt and devestated, but why make someone you love feel the same way you do. Get a divorce and have all the sex you want. Stupid clique but two wrongs dont make a right.


I agree. Part of it is childish. Revenge is partly childish.

I have understood, from others posting here, that there are a lot of potentially bad issues regarding a FP. But are there any potentialy good things?


----------



## TOMTEFAR (Feb 23, 2013)

hopefulgirl said:


> HELLO!! I can't believe how uninformed people are about STD's!!
> 
> Like brokenhearted118 pointed out, you can get a disease - or two! Even if you use a condom!!
> 
> ...


Well of cause you could get an STD. Your WS could already have infected you. That is always a riskfactor to any new sexual relationship. You need to have a healty view on STD's. You, sorry if I read you wrong, strike me as having a bit to much fright of it and that is not all that healthy either.


----------



## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

*Re: Sv: Question about Revenge Affairs or free pass*



cpacan said:


> OP has corrected and stated that it's a free pass he's thinking about. I suggest we concentrate on that discussion instead of keep pushing the damage done by RA.





cantthinkstraight said:


> A revenge affair wouldn't remove the mental images of
> some tattooed stranger pegging my wife twice a week.
> 
> It also wouldn't help to heal any of my pain.
> ...


The quote above can fit into a free pass as well.

Free Pass is the same as a RA with a different title tagged on it.

Why would I want to give my wife to be EVEN ? Let her feel guilty for the rest of our marriage, assuming I had one. 

Look we are all adults here. People make mistakes. Bad things happen. You have 2 choices. 

1. Accept it and work your A$$ off with your spouse to fix your marriage. 
2. Get a divorce. 

There is no other Bullsh1t. 

So you get this free pass, do you come home the next night and tell your spouse what you did ? Heck for that matter I can just fake a free pass and go to a friends house. Whats the point ?

I'm fvcking crushed.. I'm devastated and the life has been sucked out of me. I love my wife, why the fvck would I want to hurt her like she did me ? I'm beyond that. 

Fix it for fvcking forget it. There is no other thing in between. Stop kidding yourselves. 

Isn't there enough pain and insanity already.. I just want to be normal again


----------



## TOMTEFAR (Feb 23, 2013)

cantthinkstraight said:


> A revenge affair wouldn't remove the mental images of
> some tattooed stranger pegging my wife twice a week.
> 
> It also wouldn't help to heal any of my pain.
> ...


I have read your story CTS. It's quite awfull. I agree that the the mental pictures and stuff wont go away. You might get an ego boost out of it. However, do you think the WS experiencing a FP for the BS will gain knowledge? Such as a better understanding of the hurt the WS has caused? etc...


----------



## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

*Sv: Question about Revenge Affairs or free pass*

Well, I don't regret using my pass for one second. You may misread and judge me all you like if it makes you feel any better.


----------



## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

TOMTEFAR, I believe in fact I have a "healthy" view of STD's. People who are casual about this do NOT have a healthy view. You can get HPV even if you wear a condom, and it's worth being VERY afraid of. I don't think I'm TOO afraid of what HPV can do - may I suggest that perhaps it's you who are not afraid enough. I have a friend whose husband died from oral cancer. He suffered and she suffered and it was awful.


----------



## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

Hardtohandle said:


> The quote above can fit into a free pass as well.
> 
> Free Pass is the same as a RA with a different title tagged on it.
> 
> ...


This. Absolutely.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

It's on very rare occasions that I get labels as childish, laughable, uninformed and bullsh!tting all in the same thread.

I am totally aware of the fact, that free passes are not for everyone, especially not among waywards, but I seem to be missing something here, maybe because of my poor english. Would anyone care to explain why everyone insist on viewing free passes and extramarital sex with permission as revenge affairs??

Is it the same in english? If not; why do you think the exact same feelings and thoughts are in play with and without the cheating component being present? (other than you just don't like it, don't like me or whatever...)

Preconditions: Not going to hurt extramarital partner who is fully informed of the nature of the relationship, spouse gives consent, purpose is not to hurt spouse.


----------



## Rags (Aug 2, 2010)

cpacan said:


> Would anyone care to explain why everyone insist on viewing free passes and extramarital sex with permission as revenge affairs??


I thought I drew a fairly clear distinction ....


----------



## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

cpacan said:


> It's on very rare occasions that I get labels as childish, laughable, uninformed and bullsh!tting all in the same thread.
> 
> I am totally aware of the fact, that free passes are not for everyone, especially not among waywards, but I seem to be missing something here, maybe because of my poor english. Would anyone care to explain why everyone insist on viewing free passes and extramarital sex with permission as revenge affairs??
> 
> ...


IMO, it is just semantics. Revenge affair: the BS says "f*ck you, I'm having sex with someone else and you have no say because you were f*cking OM (or OW)"....Free pass: "I want to level the field and have sex with someone else because you had sex with OM (or OW)"... What's the difference? Even if the WS doesn't agree (and not that he or she has any real say in it anyway), the BS has the WS over a barrel, regardless. If the WS says "no free pass", the BS can say "tough sh!t, I'm doing it anyway"... WS says "have a free pass", even when it isn't what they are thinking at all... merely saying it because they know the alternative is the harsh words "f*ck you, I'm doing it!"... That's why some of us, at least, put them on the same level.


----------



## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

cpacan said:


> It's on very rare occasions that I get labels as childish, laughable, uninformed and bullsh!tting all in the same thread.
> 
> I am totally aware of the fact, that free passes are not for everyone, especially not among waywards, but I seem to be missing something here, maybe because of my poor english. Would anyone care to explain why everyone insist on viewing free passes and extramarital sex with permission as revenge affairs??
> 
> ...


Even with the qualifications, the op is still talking about revenge, or teaching the wayward a lesson, dishing out some measure of pain to them.

I don't know, if you didn't sign on for an open marriage in the first place, it is cheating. The consent is tainted as pointed out.


----------



## underwater2010 (Jun 27, 2012)

It makes you no better than your WS. Plain and simple. You want to screw around, divorce him/her.


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

To purposely hurt your spouse is beyond wrong. It is criminal abuse. You do not intentionally hurt the ones you love. Period.


----------



## TOMTEFAR (Feb 23, 2013)

hopefulgirl said:


> TOMTEFAR, I believe in fact I have a "healthy" view of STD's. People who are casual about this do NOT have a healthy view. You can get HPV even if you wear a condom, and it's worth being VERY afraid of. I don't think I'm TOO afraid of what HPV can do - may I suggest that perhaps it's you who are not afraid enough. I have a friend whose husband died from oral cancer. He suffered and she suffered and it was awful.


My point is just that you can't go around being afraid all the time. Sometimes you need to risk things. How would you ever meet somebody otherwize. I don't recommend jumping into bed with a new partner picked up on the street every night and not using any protection. Basically have a healthy approach to STD's


----------



## TOMTEFAR (Feb 23, 2013)

SadandAngry said:


> Even with the qualifications, the op is still talking about revenge, or teaching the wayward a lesson, dishing out some measure of pain to them.
> 
> I don't know, if you didn't sign on for an open marriage in the first place, it is cheating. The consent is tainted as pointed out.


I'm exploring what the consequences of a FP would be. In all other threads I have read posters just state RA/FP was bad for me. Didn't do me any good and leave it at that. I want to know why it was bad. I want to know if there are any possitiv things about it at all. It is a filosophical discussion. Not something that is gonna happen in real life.


----------



## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

*Sv: Re: Question about Revenge Affairs or free pass*



TOMTEFAR said:


> I'm exploring what the consequences of a FP would be. In all other threads I have read posters just state RA/FP was bad for me. Didn't do me any good and leave it at that. I want to know why it was bad. I want to know if there are any possitiv things about it at all. It is a filosophical discussion. Not something that is gonna happen in real life.


I'm a little confused... First it was about you, you wanted revenge, then it was your brother thinking about a free pass, now it's just a philosophical discussion


----------



## BlackjackBob (Nov 9, 2012)

TOMTEFAR said:


> I'm exploring what the consequences of a FP would be. In all other threads I have read posters just state RA/FP was bad for me. Didn't do me any good and leave it at that. I want to know why it was bad. I want to know if there are any possitiv things about it at all. It is a filosophical discussion. Not something that is gonna happen in real life.


Philosophical? I thought you were at least considering an RA/FP as options? But now you say you aren't. So, what's the point in asking WHY you shouldn't do it, if you weren't going to do it anyway?


----------



## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

Look, everybody is just lovely and judgemental and condemning and very dandy and peachy.

Fact is, the affair nuked the marriage's foundation. There can be no fidelity towards a person that isn't faithful to you. If there is, that means you are a chump whose fidelity has no value(even you aren't valuing it and expecting it to be treated with respect.) At least that's my belief, that accumulated from experiences and reading. Meaning I can never forgive never reconcile, not without revenge.

So that leaves me with two choicesedit:three lol brain fart)
1- Divorce : Pretty basic option, pretty effective too. But it's the equivalent of getting beaten by the neighborhood bully and moving away. Especially if you're a guy, you aren't getting anything out of the divorce except your freedom(and lightness of your wallet because you lost so much money and so much free time because you only get every other weekend with your kids.) But sometimes you don't have another choice to pick than this(if WS isn't remorseful or repentant) When this is the only way to go, I'd combine it with a RA. I see people warning BSs to not date other people when they are separated/going through a divorce. Why not have some fun while the life you lived up till then is going down the drain.

2-Revenge Affair: And I'm not saying some internet EA either. Full-blown relationship. Something to hit your WSs head like a brick when he/she finds out. And hopefully make them understand what you went through. And a great ego boost, too. The down side to this, is if the end goal is reconcilliation, you might lose your willingness for it.

3-Free Pass: This is tricky. cpacan was lucky that his WW was willing to give him this. And he was lucky that his WW was very remorseful after seeing him nearing the completion of his FP. Not everyone will get this two great benefits of FP. And so the FP will fail.

I understand that some people would think of it as losing integrity, honor, self-respect etc. I think of it as "Calibration". If change is the only thing that doesn't change, who am I not to accept it(and cherish it)?

If I have to take charge because of my spouse's infidelity, I'll make sure everybody cries. Then again, I've become a very dark person lately.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> Look, everybody is just lovely and judgemental and condemning and very dandy and peachy.
> 
> Fact is, the affair nuked the marriage's foundation. *There can be no fidelity towards a person that isn't faithful to you. If there is, that means you are a chump* whose fidelity has no value(even you aren't valuing it and expecting it to be treated with respect.) At least that's my belief, that accumulated from experiences and reading. Meaning I can never forgive never reconcile, not without revenge.
> 
> ...


*
Thanks for making me and everyone else on the board who reconciled with our spouses feel so special and valued. Good job.*


----------



## Rags (Aug 2, 2010)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> ... Meaning I can never forgive never reconcile, not without revenge.
> 
> .
> .
> ...


I'll say.

Not that I can't understand it. I can't even say I blame you for thinking/feeling that way.

I just don't think it will work. The solution to pain and destruction isn't more of the same.

And Divorce isn't the same running away from a bully - strategic withdrawl to protect assets for the future is a sensible strategy in many cases.


----------



## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> *
> Thanks for making me and everyone else on the board who reconciled with our spouses feel so special and valued. Good job.*


.... How you got that from that, I dunno.

Is your wife not faithful to you? Wasn't that the basis of your reconciliation? NC with the OM?

People who successfully reconciled got remorse, tears and NC. People who didn't get those, gave the impression to their WSs that their fidelity was of no value. Hence false R. Hence the feeling like a chump.(I'm in the false R category so I know exactly how it feels.)

Edit: Obviously my views are a bit jaded because of my experience, now I don't even think classic remorse and repentance would work for me in future relationships.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> .... How you got that from that, I dunno.
> 
> Is your wife not faithful to you? Wasn't that the basis of your reconciliation? NC with the OM?
> 
> ...


Because you said


> *There can be no fidelity towards a person that isn't faithful to you. If there is, that means you are a chump *


----------



## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

Of course, if you decide to edit this out...



> whose fidelity has no value(even you aren't valuing it and expecting it to be treated with respect.)


I haven't seen many succesful reconcilliation stories from people who have come here saying "My husband/wife cheated on me but I still love him/her. I will do everything to save my marriage" and then continue on to looking over advice that they think would push the WS away. Just seeing that sentence makes me cringe so bad that a person is willing to give love and fidelity to a person who obviously doesn't give them back.

That's a very obvious sign of codependency and low self-esteem and too often it's a trap that BSs fall into, regardless of whether they were like that or not before the affair blew up.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> Of course, if you decide to edit this out...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This codependency... it's a great way of inventing a new method of screwing money out of people. Some eminent people in the field of psychology doubt it even exists outside the office of someone with a purported qualification who says: "I believe you have codependency issues with your wallet. Let me lighten its heavy load for you."


----------



## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> This codependency... it's a great way of inventing a new method of screwing money out of people. Some eminent people in the field of psychology doubt it even exists outside the office of someone with a purported qualification who says: "I believe you have codependency issues with your wallet. Let me lighten its heavy load for you."


Let's say I don't agree and leave it at that.


----------



## TOMTEFAR (Feb 23, 2013)

*Re: Sv: Re: Question about Revenge Affairs or free pass*



cpacan said:


> I'm a little confused... First it was about you, you wanted revenge, then it was your brother thinking about a free pass, now it's just a philosophical discussion


English is not my native language and my first posting was not clear. I understod that a bit back and did a post on page 2 or 3 that I was not doing a RA/FP for my self but exploring the drawbacks and any potential benefits. I want to understand and be there for my brother, to advice him in such a way to make his recovery as best as possible. 

I have to aproach it as a filosophical question since I don't know how to aproach it otherwize. I don't have own experience in this not do I have any experience with infidellity on my own.


----------



## TOMTEFAR (Feb 23, 2013)

BlackjackBob said:


> Philosophical? I thought you were at least considering an RA/FP as options? But now you say you aren't. So, what's the point in asking WHY you shouldn't do it, if you weren't going to do it anyway?


Mostly because my brother is thinking about it. Hew was offered a FP and I want him to make the correct decission. I don't want him to hurt any more than nessesary.

His story is in short:

W had a 8 month A. During that time she got pregnant. W doesn't know who the father is. My brother have always wanteda child, 2 misscarries before. If it is his child he wants to try R. Mostly for his childs sake and for him self. If they D he will be locked out for the initial part of the childs life. W will move to her parents who live roughtly 300 miles away.

I am sorry that my initial post sounded as if I was thinking about it. It's my brother who is. I did do a post on page 2 or 3 trying to clear that up when I did understand that I didn't come across correctly.


----------



## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

TOMTEFAR said:


> *Mostly because my brother is thinking about it. Hew was offered a FP and I want him to make the correct decission. I don't want him to hurt any more than nessesary.
> *
> His story is in short:
> 
> ...


Then direct him to TAM. There ARE people on here who have had RA/FP (again, I see them as the same, just semantics). He would be better served asking the questions himself.


----------



## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> .... How you got that from that, I dunno.
> 
> Is your wife not faithful to you? Wasn't that the basis of your reconciliation? NC with the OM?
> 
> ...


If anything I can say not having kids and having kids might change the scenario for some. 

I have kids and now I have to tell my kids or at least the 13 year old that everything their mother is doing is wrong.

I just don't see how I could ever explain a free pass to my son. 

Further what do you do when some Trigger sets you off ? How do you deal with the response from your significant other " Look I'm as hurt as you are now that you fvcked someone else too. So if I have to deal with it so do you." Basically its too bad you feel this way but we are even now. 

I just don't see how a Free Pass will fix what is broken inside you now. 

But then again many people are different. I know or at least read that some guys did that 180 from day one and worked wonders for them. Myself being a cop for over 20 years and seeing many things in this big city and I still crumbled like a house of cards when my wife betrayed me. I have NEVER felt so powerless. 

So without being flippant maybe some people are wired where a Free Pass does fix things for them. 

I fall back on my last statement , I just want to be normal again. I don't want any of this anymore. Honestly I don't want to be here if you get what I mean. I want to close my eyes and make this all go away. I want my life back, I want my pre-pod / pre-demonseed wife back. I want life to be normal for my kids again..


----------



## old_soldier (Jul 17, 2012)

TOMTEFAR said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have a bit of conflicting thoughts about RA or free passes. A lot of you have written about RA or free passes not being a good or helpfull thing and advice BS's to stay away from them.
> 
> ...


IMHO RA or a FP cheapens the betrayed spouce. By doing this, you have lowered yourself to the immoral standards of the cheating spouce. By doing this you forefit your own honour and integrity. Morally speaking, you become no better than the cheating spouce. 

The thought of revenge feels good, but in the end it just lowers you and is totaly disrespectful to the person you have the affair with. 

RA or FP is disgusting and foul. If you need that to feel better, its best to just divorce and move on. My opinion only.


----------



## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

I like this post from you, because you attempt to bridge the differences in opinions here by asking questions and state what's your opinion only.

I have inserted some comments to your questions and observations.


Hardtohandle said:


> If anything I can say not having kids and having kids might change the scenario for some.
> I have kids too, and if I didn't, I would probably be out here by now because of the continous lies.
> 
> I have kids and now I have to tell my kids or at least the 13 year old that everything their mother is doing is wrong.
> ...


One of the things I see that confuses the discussion is, that some posters seem to believe that extramarital sex in it self is wrong and deceitfull. It's perfectly OK, but I don't share that view. It's the dishonesty, betrayal, selfishness and lack of consideration of your partner that destroyed my life as I knew it at the time.


----------



## BlackjackBob (Nov 9, 2012)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> Look, everybody is just lovely and *judgemental* and condemning and very dandy and peachy


Are we not supposed to have opinions and voice them? A judgement in the context of most of what people write on a message board is nothing more than an opinion. 

If we shouldn't post our opinions, TAM would very barren.

Sorry, but that statement confuses me.


----------

