# Please help, I discovered my dad is cheating with escorts



## help93 (Oct 27, 2015)

I am 22, I recently have moved back home to live with my parents and older brother after graduating university. My parents have been married for around 30 years and show no sign of a troubled relationship.

My dad has always had a toxic relationship with looking at women on the internet. I believe both my brother and my mum are aware he does this although no one ever discusses this for obvious reasons. Seeing your dad of 67 spending an unhealthy amount of time on the internet looking at women (and failing miserably to hide it) naturally is very uncomfortable but as difficult and awkward to think about it I understand men will have urges and I try to let it slide.

I am now in a truly horrible situation. A few months ago I was travelling with my dad by train. he sat beside me and received several text messages. My dad almost never texts so I had always thought this odd whenever he did receive them, especially his awkwardness and nervousness when I ask who they are from, replying 'spam'... This particular occasion I saw him reply 'That's ok, I'll miss my schoolgirl' I was instantly mortified and didn't know what to think or how to react. I suppressed this and told myself not to look into it as it only makes me uncomfortable.

Since moving home, I am aware he is constantly chatting to women online (his attempt at discretion is very poor). Last night I sat on the same sofa as him one seat away and saw from the corner of my eye he was using a website 'seekingarrangement' (I later discovered this to be a 'sugardaddy' website). Chatting to a lady, he googled the name of a restauraunt in a nearby city (2hrs away) and took her phone number. Later that evening I overheard him say to my mum he was going to such city the next morning just to spend some time there. This was when I realised my dad was paying younger women for company and potentially sex and I have no idea how long this has been happening.

I cannot be sure there are sexual relationships involved as that would require me investigating his belongings further and a huge part of me doesn't even want to know if he has slept with other women, although the text concerning a 'schoolgirl' makes me think he has and some of the 'relationships' are ongoing.

I can't believe this is happening and have done nothing but hide in my room and cry. Last night I didn't sleep and heard him leave for the train this morning. I am totally and utterly broken, mostly because he is a great, caring person and a brilliant and loving dad who has seen me through some really tough experiences. It makes me furious with him that he could do this to our family and put his own self indulgence over his respect for his family. I feel my relationship with him is tarnished and damaged from now on.

My mum is wonderful, with a huge heart and I can't bare to think how she will react if she finds out. I don't believe my parents still have a sexual relationship but nonetheless are very close ( they just returned from a week long holiday abroad and loved it). She is originally Spanish and only moved here when she married my dad so all her family live in Spain and I know she will be devastated to have this family broken. I worry if she learns the truth from me, she will resent me for bringing up the issue. What if he has not slept with anyone else, I still consider being a 'sugardaddy' a form of cheating but would she have preferred to live without knowing if sex wasn't happening? 

I'm asking for help as I feel totally stuck and abandoned. 

If i bring it up with my dad and he says he hasn't slept with anyone I don't know if I can believe him. What if he denies everything? What if he promises to stop but doesn't?
I don't know if its an open relationship and if my mum is aware, but if sex is involved I suspect not.
It seems there are pros and cons of telling either my mum and dad first and I just don't know how to go about it.

Please someone help me.


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

I'm so sorry you have been put in this position. Given your age I've been hesitant to respond but I will say this, If it were me I would go into his phone to get the evidence needed. From what you've said all the evidence you need should be there. Brace yourself and expect the worst. Your father is cheating. I would be shocked if it turns out to be just "chatting" which is still cheating and would also need to be addressed. 

I would then confront him with what is found. Tell him what you think, feel how it effects you. Be brutally honest. Then tell him that he must tell your mother. There is no negotiation here. He must tell her everything. This is his job not yours. Again, if it were me, I would have the three of sit while my father explained what I had found out and how. Once the full confession was made I would leave them alone. I wouldn't trust him to make a full confession on his own. He might leave some things out or attempt to minimize things to your mother.

You can't unknow what you've seen nor should you have to just sit with it and say nothing or do nothing . It's not fair to you. Whatever happens in the aftermath of this is not your fault. Not in any way your doing. The fault and responsibility is your fathers and his alone.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

There was a girl a couple of weeks ago that had almost the same issue. This is becoming a recurring theme.

How sad.

Bibi


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## help93 (Oct 27, 2015)

inarut said:


> I'm so sorry you have been put in this position. Given your age I've been hesitant to respond but I will say this, If it were me I would go into his phone to get the evidence needed. From what you've said all the evidence you need should be there. Brace yourself and expect the worst. Your father is cheating. I would be shocked if it turns out to be just "chatting" which is still cheating and would also need to be addressed.
> 
> I would then confront him with what is found. Tell him what you think, feel how it effects you. Be brutally honest. Then tell him that he must tell your mother. There is no negotiation here. He must tell her everything. This is his job not yours. Again, if it were me, I would have the three of sit while my father explained what I had found out and how. Once the full confession was made I would leave them alone. I wouldn't trust him to make a full confession on his own. He might leave some things out or attempt to minimize things to your mother.
> 
> You can't unknow what you've seen nor should you have to just sit with it and say nothing or do nothing . It's not fair to you. Whatever happens in the aftermath of this is not your fault. Not in any way your doing. The fault and responsibility is your fathers and his alone.


Thank you so much for the advice.

I know I cannot pretend as if nothing is happening and I am starting to realise that I will have to bring this up with him. The idea of confronting him terrifies me and I am so anxious as to how both him and my mum will react. It had crossed my mind that my mum might be aware to some extent and they've reached a possible agreement. My mum is very good at choosing to ignoring problems. This worries me further about confronting him mostly because it will involve myself in their own relationship and although I can't tolerate my dad doing this, where would I stand in it all.

Again thank you for replying, it means a lot just to have someone acknowledge my situation and try to help. I think l must try to build up the strength and confront him if my relationship with him is to survive.


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

It is possible that you have stumbled onto the knowledge that your parents have an open relationship. Again, not your fault you didn't go looking for this information. I can imagine how scary it would be to confront your dad with what you've found. I find when I have something really difficult to say to someone it's easier for me to put it all down in a letter. That way I can say everything I want to say exactly how I want to say it. If you choose to do this be extremely careful nobody else gets a hold of it!


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Why are you so sure your parents aren't having sex? Did I read that correctly?

If that's the case this could actually be something they tacitly agree to - he agrees not to get involved emotionally with someone so he uses this route (as opposed to looking for women his owns age). The sugar daddy thing is definitely transactional in nature, rather than emotionally driven.

I'm sorry - this sucks and you shouldn't have to deal with this.

Can you talk to your mom about relationships, marriage and sex? It might be a good idea to get her thoughts before this blows up. You should feel free to challenge anything you don't agree with - after all she is your role model, if she says sex after some point doesn't matter, and you disagree, have that discussion. 

If you read "her needs his needs" you'll see it is a huge need for most men but is much lower for most women. That creates different needs and conflict that must be resolved.

What if mom wants one thing and dad wants another. By that, I mean their needs. This can drive couples apart, particularly after kids are grown and they just gave each other. Moms often devote substantial energy and emotional commitment to raising a family and men often focus extensively on work and finances. Too often mom and dad don't stop to look at each other and realize they have to build a new post-child-rearing relationship.

Not blaming anyone here. Just pointing out dad may be doing what he can to stay happy and in love with mom, and mom may be doing what she can to ignore this and stay in love with dad.

 sorry that's all I can think of...


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

Again, you are not putting yourself in their relationship! Your fathers carelessness has! Where do you stand in this? You accidentally came across shocking, confusing, painful information. It's not healthy for you to keep this a secret. Not for your own well being nor for the well being of your relationship with your parents. None of this is your fault or your doing. You have been put in a position no child should ever be in. Please do not blame yourself.


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

The truthhurts.... I don't think it's uncommon for young people to assume their parents don't have sex. You know cuz they're soooo old and that's gross ....


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

And BTW I think sex is critical at all ages. My folks are in their 80's and I know they were active at least until my dad had prostrate cancer last year. Bin fact I talked to him about that before treatment - told him to be sure to push the dr hard for minimal complications and ensure the dr knew sex was important. Dad said he did and I think he implied that there may be limits to that part of a relationship at some point - it was hard to hear and he only said it once - I took it as him being realistic that ED could result. But he's mid-80's and if not for the cancer would not think age has anything to do with sex.

Others have medical issues, even with ED men can reach climax and women can continue to enjoy all manner of sexual pleasure in spite of our aging bodies.

It's iften just attitudes and emotions that limit sex in marriage, rather than hard physical limitations.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

inarut said:


> The truthhurts.... I don't think it's uncommon for young people to assume their parents don't have sex. You know cuz they're soooo old and that's gross ....


Yes indeed! I was at a bar with an older guy and a very young guy. Hilarious discussion - the young guy was into cleanly groomed and "neat" sex. The older guy was saying things like "the messier the better" and it went down hill from there. Was soooo funny . I just laughed and drank my beer.


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## help93 (Oct 27, 2015)

inarut said:


> It is possible that you have stumbled onto the knowledge that your parents have an open relationship. Again, not your fault you didn't go looking for this information. I can imagine how scary it would be to confront your dad with what you've found. I find when I have something really difficult to say to someone it's easier for me to put it all down in a letter. That way I can say everything I want to say exactly how I want to say it. If you choose to do this be extremely careful nobody else gets a hold of it!


The idea of my parents ,although uncomfortable, having an open relationship has crossed my mind. If that is the case I am partly relieved my dad is not betraying my mother however, there is no way I can address my mum first as it may not be the case and she could be clueless to the actions of my dad. This means I have to confront my dad assuming it is not an open relationship and ask him if my mum is aware. If she is, I now find myself in a very awkward situation where they have made an agreement for their relationship which I strongly disapprove of but my voice is unlikely to be heard. 

I like the idea of the letter, I'd worry my emotions would get the better of me and I wouldn't be able to express my true feelings and opinions, so writing down will help. Whether I should be there when he reads the letter I'm not sure.


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

I imagine it would be a relief to find out they have an open relationship at this point albeit confusing, disappointing. You have a right to your feelings about it. I can't imagine anyone wanting to know this about their parents. If it is the case, it's a conversation your going to have to have with them. Don't keep sitting on this. It's not going to get any easier. In fact the longer you wait the bigger it gets and the harder it becomes. Get it over with.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

I think the idea of OP's parents in an open relationship seems a bit much.

OP, I have been hesitant to respond because, frankly it does kind of trigger me. A few years ago my then 14 DD discovered my H was engaging in multiple A's when she borrowed his laptop. It was all completely innocent on her part-she merely asked her father if she could use his computer to do her homework. The idiot-boy didn't close out his conversations-just minimized the windows. And boom there they were, in all their gruesome details, sexting/skyping/reminiscing about their different romps. 

It took my DD a few days to figure out what to do. I knew instantly something was wrong with her, but silly me assumed it had something to do with a friend of hers or school or something. She decided to come to me and said "mom, I think dad might be having an affair." My ex and I were having TONS of other issues at the time which you don't want to hear about, and I was aware of some emotional affairs when I found a burner phone. I told her thank you for coming to me, it must have been very hard, and that I would handle it. 

So for lots of different reasons we divorced. My ex and that DD have remained estranged. He blames her for outing him and causing the divorce, never mind the fact that I had already confronted him about some emotional affairs. And never mind the other myriad of issues we had. He has remained unapologetic about any of his behavior and still, hasn't ever acknowledged any infidelity. The last conversation I had with him about DD involved more lies on his part, all rather transparent and easily verified. The best I can say about him is that he is consistent in that regard.

It was extremely brave of her to come to me, she's like that.

Now OP, you say your parents have no signs of a troubled marriage, and then immediately state that your dad has always had a toxic relationship with looking at women. I bet your Mom knows. She may not know the extent, but she knows. People in toxic relationships don't hide things particularly well.

IMO, this is information you should not have to hold to yourself. You are not your father's keeper. My advice would be to tell, either your mother or your father, or more beneficially both (although not at the same time). Secrets kill relationships and this one impacts your parents' relationship with each other, as well as their relationship with you.

Good luck.


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## BrokenLady (Jan 19, 2015)

Does your older brother live in the house with you & your parents? Do you have a good relationship with him? Would you consider discussing this with him or could that do more harm than good? He's probably noticed things too. It depends on his character.


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

I disagree with the post above. She doesn't know anything about her parents sex life! Nor do we! 

As for the possibility of your father being angry with you, from what you've said he has been a caring, loving, awesome father. Cheating or not that doesn't sound like the type of man that would blame or be angry with his child for telling the truth about his behavior. Do you think it's a possibility? If he did respond this way, it would be ridiculous. 

This is why I say get it over with. All the possibilities, conjectures, they are endless...


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## help93 (Oct 27, 2015)

Pluto2 said:


> I think the idea of OP's parents in an open relationship seems a bit much.
> 
> OP, I have been hesitant to respond because, frankly it does kind of trigger me. A few years ago my then 14 DD discovered my H was engaging in multiple A's when she borrowed his laptop. It was all completely innocent on her part-she merely asked her father if she could use his computer to do her homework. The idiot-boy didn't close out his conversations-just minimized the windows. And boom there they were, in all their gruesome details, sexting/skyping/reminiscing about their different romps.
> 
> ...


I have real doubts whether its an 'open relationship', if sex was involved and my mum knew about it, I don't believe she would emotionally be ok with that. I just can't figure out whether she knows what is going on and is choosing to ignore it (avoiding the problem) or is totally naive to the the whole situation. I really worry if my mum hears it from me she will resent me from bringing this up as my revelation will cause serious rifts in the family. Like you said, I am sure she is aware of his internet habits but maybe not to the extent that I have discovered.

My other issue concerns not being definite on the extent and degree he is cheating. I don't know if he is just taking girls for dinner, spending money on them, exchanging sexual/flirtatious comments or actually having sex together. Part of me feels I need to know the extent and the complete truth for myself before I confront anyone (is this rational?) but the other part of me feels sick at the thought of discovering the worst. 

I know I have to confront them, and they both have to know whats going on. I'm struggling so hard with how to approach it in the first place, how much I should know before confronting them and who to tell first. Ideally I'd confront my Dad first if I was confident he'd admit everything to my mum, but I don't know how likely he would


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

boltam said:


> Just assume your mum would be ok with it since they're not having sex and drop it.
> 
> Not worth the grief you'll cause for yourself and everyone else.
> 
> Let your parents deal with their own issues.


This is terrible advice.

OP is only 22. She'd be carrying around this secret for the rest of her life and it will affect every relationship she ever has.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

You've gotten a lot of interesting replies - I hope they've helped you sort out your thoughts.

Here's another idea - might be dumb, but...

Can you get them both in a room, have 2 copies of something written down, then give it to them both and ask them to talk to you after they talk among themselves?

And just put down exactly what you know. What you saw on the train, the specific comments, and what you've observed. No extrapolating. Not judgmentally, but factually, stating it. And say you are concerned for the family and for each of them as your mom and dad.

Then tell them you want to let them discuss this privately, and leave them and let them sort it out.

Could this work?


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

help93 said:


> I have real doubts whether its an 'open relationship', if sex was involved and my mum knew about it, I don't believe she would emotionally be ok with that. I just can't figure out whether she knows what is going on and is choosing to ignore it (avoiding the problem) or is totally naive to the the whole situation. I really worry if my mum hears it from me she will resent me from bringing this up as my revelation will cause serious rifts in the family. Like you said, I am sure she is aware of his internet habits but maybe not to the extent that I have discovered.
> 
> My other issue concerns not being definite on the extent and degree he is cheating. I don't know if he is just taking girls for dinner, spending money on them, exchanging sexual/flirtatious comments or actually having sex together. Part of me feels I need to know the extent and the complete truth for myself before I confront anyone (is this rational?) but the other part of me feels sick at the thought of discovering the worst.
> 
> I know I have to confront them, and they both have to know whats going on. I'm struggling so hard with how to approach it in the first place, how much I should know before confronting them and who to tell first. Ideally I'd confront my Dad first if I was confident he'd admit everything to my mum, but I don't know how likely he would


You don't have to take anymore on your shoulders. You found something out that is clearly disturbing you and "could" impact your parent's relationship, or not. We're all guessing here. We guess what mom may or may not know, and guess what dad may or may not have done. Let them sort that out-it is their marriage.

All of that is not your concern. Share with them (separately) what you do know. I don't know your relationship with mom, but never, for one tiny second did I ever resent my DD for telling me. She did something very difficult and acted out of love. How could I possibly resent her. 
Just my two cents.


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## help93 (Oct 27, 2015)

Yes, my older brother lives in the house too.
I have considered telling him. I know he is partly aware of dads activities, a good few years ago he mentioned to me that dad is forever online looking at women, like I said I'm confident that extent of his activities are known in the house but never discussed. I want to tell my brother to have someone to confide in but he can have a very short temper and I'd worry he might act irrationally and confront dad with just my word. I do wish I could talk to him about it but then I'll have pulled him into this without him wanting to know.


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## help93 (Oct 27, 2015)

TheTruthHurts said:


> You've gotten a lot of interesting replies - I hope they've helped you sort out your thoughts.
> 
> Here's another idea - might be dumb, but...
> 
> ...


Thanks for this suggestion. I guess the idea of purely stating what I know (without investigating the details beforehand) and how I feel about it and I'm concerned about the family relationships is a more honest and less dramatic way to confront the issue? I am anxious about the emotions and drama that will occur when I bring this up. I think approaching it this way is a slightly more mature and less aggressive way to confront them. I don't know if it would be best to leave them with it separately or together. If separately they may have more time to adjust alone before discussing, however if given together they are aware everyone knows and the secrets are out.
I'm holding off only because its his birthday on Thursday and there are family plans on Saturday. I don't want to cause any tension and he really is a caring father so I will wait till the weekend.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

help93 said:


> Thanks for this suggestion. I guess the idea of purely stating what I know (without investigating the details beforehand) and how I feel about it and I'm concerned about the family relationships is a more honest and less dramatic way to confront the issue? I am anxious about the emotions and drama that will occur when I bring this up. I think approaching it this way is a slightly more mature and less aggressive way to confront them. I don't know if it would be best to leave them with it separately or together. If separately they may have more time to adjust alone before discussing, however if given together they are aware everyone knows and the secrets are out.
> I'm holding off only because its his birthday on Thursday and there are family plans on Saturday. I don't want to cause any tension and he really is a caring father so I will wait till the weekend.


I feel for you. I was in my late twenties when my dad cheated on my mom. I suspected it for a while, but didn't have nearly the evidence you do since I was already married/had a baby. Even if I had, I wonder what would I have done? It's a very difficult place to be in if you're as close with your dad as I was. 

Even though you're an adult now, you're still your dad's little girl and I doubt he'd want you to be carrying around this burden while HE gets off scott-free. It could be messy, really messy. There could be a lot of drama. But, the fact is that whether or not you expose, it affects the rest of YOUR life either way. You need to release yourself of this burden and put it where it belongs.....on your dad. 

I like the idea of the letter. Give it to them both at the same time.


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

I think it's a good idea too. I would have them read it together in the same room at the same time. I hate to say this to you but if they read it seperately your dad is very likely to wipe the evidence from his phone. Please don't give him that opportunity.


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

Boltom....you don't know that she is NOT having sex with him either.


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## help93 (Oct 27, 2015)

inarut said:


> I think it's a good idea too. I would have them read it together in the same room at the same time. I hate to say this to you but if they read it seperately your dad is very likely to wipe the evidence from his phone. Please don't give him that opportunity.


Thanks to everyone for the support and advice it has really helped to talk this out. I am still incredibly emotional, I think my mum has a feeling I'm upset as she tried to cheer me up. I will have to grin and bare it for the next few days over family occasions while I figure out what exactly to put down on the letters. I think I might leave the house when I give them the letters, just for an hour or so before returning only to make sure they don't involve me as soon as they've finished reading and have to discuss it with each other?


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

help93 said:


> Thanks to everyone for the support and advice it has really helped to talk this out. I am still incredibly emotional, I think my mum has a feeling I'm upset as she tried to cheer me up. I will have to grin and bare it for the next few days over family occasions while I figure out what exactly to put down on the letters. I think I might leave the house when I give them the letters, just for an hour or so before returning only to make sure they don't involve me as soon as they've finished reading and have to discuss it with each other?


I agree with waiting until after the birthday festivities and with leaving the house. They should not involve you other than your dad apologizing to you. 

Big hugs....update us on how it all goes. And consider some counseling for yourself. Finding stuff like this out about your dad hits hard and hurts the heart.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

I'd like to think you won't be thought of as making any accusations per se - you're relaying your observations. You'll still be dads girl and moms girl - you don't want to be part of the marriage (if that makes sense)

If you individually "confront" then you are asking that person to answer to you. If you convey what you see and your concerns you invite them to work through things. You're an observer and not a party to this. You can still back out and say "hey I'm still just your daughter and I want my family together".

Subtle distinction but important.

Hope that made sense


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

Yes, sit them down together. Tell them you are giving them something really important that they need need to read together right now. Tell them you are leaving but will be back later.


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## help93 (Oct 27, 2015)

TheTruthHurts said:


> I'd like to think you won't be thought of as making any accusations per se - you're relaying your observations. You'll still be dads girl and moms girl - you don't want to be part of the marriage (if that makes sense)
> 
> If you individually "confront" then you are asking that person to answer to you. If you convey what you see and your concerns you invite them to work through things. You're an observer and not a party to this. You can still back out and say "hey I'm still just your daughter and I want my family together".
> 
> ...


This is a very rough draft. I am trying to focus on only what I have observed and how I feel.

hours chatting to women online, sending and receiving text messages, witnessed ‘that’s ok, I’ll miss you etc’ on train.
witnessed dad chatting to girl on website
realized the website in use was seekingarrangement : - escort website
received girls phone number and saw words 'meet'
googled restaurant in particular city
Travelled to city very next day

I never intented to discover any of this, but I have, and I cannot ignore it.
I accidentally came across shocking, confusing and painful information and have been put in a position no child should ever be in.
I don’t wish to confront or accuse, only to express what I see and my concerns
I am concerned for each of you as my mum and dad, my relationship with dad from now on and the family. I have been carrying a burden that I never should have had to deal with and it is hurting me.

Please discuss this and work through it.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

help93 said:


> This is a very rough draft. I am trying to focus on only what I have observed and how I feel.
> 
> hours chatting to women online, sending and receiving text messages, witnessed ‘that’s ok, I’ll miss you etc’ on train.
> witnessed dad chatting to girl on website
> ...



I think this is good.

I'd give them the final version and then pretty much go silent until they work it out, maybe even leave your home while they do. This is their issue to resolve. And also remember that how they choose to resolve it is up to them.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Mom, dad, I've run across proof that dad has been having extramarital sex. A lot of it. I didn't want to know, but now that I do, I want to know what you two are going to do about it. Dad, if you aren't going to stop, you need to move out and spare us all the pain. Mom, if he won't stop, you need to kick him out. I will be telling the rest of the family if I don't hear a resolution from the two of you to end this.


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

For once in this thread I agree with boltam. It's not her place to make demands and dictate terms and agreements. This is her parents problem to handle however they see fit. They are not here asking for help she is.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Well then what's the point of a letter?

Just go tell your mom what he's doing and let them duke it out.


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

Help93...once this is out. Talk about this with a therapist. It really will help. This is a huge thing for you to deal with. Getting it all out will really help to minimize long term effects on you. And lean on that boyfriend of yours! I love the way he responded to you. Sounds like a keeper....


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

Tunera.... Are you actually reading 
her posts??? She is terrified! This is difficult to say the least for adults! These are her parents! Have some compassion!


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## help93 (Oct 27, 2015)

I needed to get this down but I am more sure than ever that my mum has no clue what is going on. Dad came home and asked if I was annoyed with him but I don't want to get it out there yet. Knowing my mum is so naive to this breaks my heart I have to tell her and I'm confident dad wouldn't do it if I asked him. Sticking to the original plan of letter to both of them but realizing what I'm doing to my perfectly happy mum (I can hear her laughing in the other room) hurts me so much I can't describe.


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

Would it be possible to maybe have your mother discover this instead of you delivering a letter? 

For example, I was thinking of maybe getting on the website your dad frequents, find some incriminating evidence, like maybe a PM or something, and leave that open for mom to read?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The only way to lessen your mom's pain - and I saw someone else with the same problem as you do it once - is to go to your dad in private and say 'either you tell mom or I'm going to.' And then if he tells her, she MIGHT be able to give him a little compassion for admitting the affair; she doesn't have to know you made him do it.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Finish writing it and let it sit a bit. It's always a good thing to let your emotions cool down before acting.

You're in a difficult position. I can't imagine this. If they break up you need to believe you are not the cause of anything - just someone stuck having to tell the truth.

That's why objectivity will be key so you don't second guess things after the fact.

Get comfortable with your approach. Remember we're just playing the "at home" version of the game but this is your life and you need to make your own decision about what is best.

Don't let any of us goad you into acting one way or another without you being in complete agreement. Ok? Hugs


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

turnera said:


> The only way to lessen your mom's pain - *and I saw someone else with the same problem as you do it once - is to go to your dad in private and say 'either you tell mom or I'm going to.'* And then if he tells her, she MIGHT be able to give him a little compassion for admitting the affair; she doesn't have to know you made him do it.


That is a TERRIBLE TERRIBLE TERRIBLE idea. 

Just because someone did it once and it worked doesn't mean this is the go-to solution whenever this problem arises.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Turnera has a good point but that's a tough conversation to have with a dad


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Turnera has a good point but that's a tough conversation to have with a dad


And what if dad call's her bluff? Or turns it back around on her, saying "You would really hurt your mother like that?" Or maybe "You really want to break the family up over this?" 

Is any of it right? No, but hearing that from a parent isn't easy for a kid. 

Or maybe OP can do it. How does mom react to that? And without evidence, what good is doing this? 

This is a bluff method, and if dad calls her on it, it falls apart.


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

There is no way to minimize your moms pain. I know you wish you could honey but you can't.. Stick to the original plan and get it done. If anything this is gonna be a real eye opener for both your parents, particularly coming from you especially your father. The way you describe him as a father. He is going to feel all the shame and guilt he needs.


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

I am truly sorry you are going through this.

If it were me i would discreetly go into his phone get all the evidence needed than i would take him out to lunch or dinner for a talk. I would lay it all on the table and tell him if it doesn't stop or he stops then you find out his at it again you will show the evidence to your mum without warning him.

Your father is cheating. It is most likely he will claim that it is just companionship but i can assure you no man no matter how old would spend money on women especially younger one's if the promise of sex wasn't involved.

Once gaian sorry you are going through this.


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

Having him confess because he was forced to and your mom believing he did it in his own volition compounds the lie and deceit and leaves you with guilt and burden. Don't do it. It's wrong and helps nobody nor does it chamge the situation or outcome.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Sports Fan said:


> I am truly sorry you are going through this.
> 
> If it were me i would discreetly go into his phone get all the evidence needed than i would take him out to lunch or dinner for a talk. I would lay it all on the table and tell him if it doesn't stop or he stops then you find out his at it again you will show the evidence to your mum without warning him.
> 
> ...


Good ideas... Except this inserts her right into the problem and now she is withholding information from mum which isn't fair to her.


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

I firmly believe the original plan is best. Tell what you know and extract yourself fr this situation the best you can. It's their problem. Yes it effects you greatly nit beyond putting what you must on the table there is morning else you can do. It is not for you to solve.


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

Trying to force dad's hand could also lead to him just lying and...whatever it's called when a wayward spouse doesn't tell everything to a betrayed spouse. 

And it also places OP in the middle of this. 

That is the absolute WORST idea.


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

If you speak to your dad and tell him to stop or you will tell....YOU still carry the burden! Don't do this. Are you going to monitor your dad for the rest of you life. Your growing up, moving out and building a life of your own and there they will be ..doing What??!! You dad could easily continue as he has been doing getting better at hiding it. Nothing will be resolved between them one way or another. Take this off your shoulders and put it where it belongs.


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

Broken at 20.... I'm assuming the mom will immediately want to see her husbands phone once she reads the letter. If it were me I would put it in my moms hand with the letter to read. You can't expect this girl to gather evidence. We can all imagine the kinds of things she will find. She shouldn't be exposed to it. She knows too much already. My initial reaction was for her to get the evidence first too but I thought better of it.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

I would take no action for or against your mum or dad. Just be factual and let then decide what to do.

Who knows - maybe that schookgirl is his love child from a fling prior to the marriage. Ok I kid but seriously you don't know the details and don't need to.,.


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## help93 (Oct 27, 2015)

I am going to stick with the stripped back letter.
-I don't want to investigate or find evidence on a subject I wish I never knew about in the 1st place, I feel that dirties my hands so to speak, creates more tension and think the idea of evidence required to use against my dad is dangerous.
-Emotionally I wouldn't be able to discuss or talk to either of them to start as I'm sure I'd fall apart and be a mess, hence why the letter.
-I'm going to give the letter to both at the same time. Even if I only told my dad and the situation disappeared without mum knowing, I feel my relationship would still be damaged with him, as I would continue to pity my mum and blame him.

I am terrified about hurting my mum, I cannot think about it without crying. As much as I am furious with my dad, I know as a person he is very very sensitive and emotional so I pity him for what is to come. Their reaction and outcome is my biggest worry, I know I cannot control either. Therefore I need to be confident in what I am about to do. I need to find the strength and truly believe what I am choosing to do is the right decision. I need to accept I cannot hold this burden if I am to have relationship with my dad and that the best method to get this out is handing the letter to both of them and stepping back.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

help93 said:


> I am going to stick with the stripped back letter.
> -I don't want to investigate or find evidence on a subject I wish I never knew about in the 1st place, I feel that dirties my hands so to speak, creates more tension and think the idea of evidence required to use against my dad is dangerous.
> -Emotionally I wouldn't be able to discuss or talk to either of them to start as I'm sure I'd fall apart and be a mess, hence why the letter.
> -I'm going to give the letter to both at the same time. Even if I only told my dad and the situation disappeared without mum knowing, I feel my relationship would still be damaged with him, as I would continue to pity my mum and blame him.
> ...


I agree on all counts and I just said a prayer for you. I'm so sorry you are dealing with this. 

What's YOUR relationship status and how are you doing? Do you have a boyfriend/fiance/partner? How do you feel this whole fiasco has affected your view of relationships?


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

help93 said:


> I am going to stick with the stripped back letter.
> -I don't want to investigate or find evidence on a subject I wish I never knew about in the 1st place, I feel that dirties my hands so to speak, creates more tension and think the idea of evidence required to use against my dad is dangerous.
> -Emotionally I wouldn't be able to discuss or talk to either of them to start as I'm sure I'd fall apart and be a mess, hence why the letter.
> -I'm going to give the letter to both at the same time. Even if I only told my dad and the situation disappeared without mum knowing, I feel my relationship would still be damaged with him, as I would continue to pity my mum and blame him.
> ...


Well, my family is extremely dysfunctional, so take what I say with a grain of salt. And in the typical TAM fashion, no point in sugar-coating it. 

If they both find out you were the one who sent the letter, yes, the relationship with your parents will be affected. Your dad will probably be VERY upset for exposing him. Your mom will be very hurt, and maybe not want to see you for a while. She'll come around after realizing you weren't the one that hurt her, but she will be hurt. 

Even your brother will be affected. If he finds out, he may get physical with your dad. Or he may not. Who knows. 
He may also be mad you didn't tell him about this. 


I am not saying all this to upset you, but to prepare you. 
Better to be prepared than hit in the face with a curve-ball from life.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Help93, we will be here for you.


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## tpdallas (Aug 28, 2015)

Your dad does not get that these women don't want him.

They want his money.


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

Help93. Your rough draft is good. You've expressed yours feelings and fears about how this is effecting you very well here in your posts. Go back through what you wrote and add it to the letter. They need to deal with their relationship on their own but they both need to know what you are going through ...what your thoughts, feelings, fears are so hopefully they can help you with this too. They might be too wrapped up in themselves to do so right away but put it out there.


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## mountains (Jul 13, 2012)

Listen, there are way too many replies here for me to go through them and honestly I am in my own situation that makes me not want to read other people's messages but when I saw your topic I had to click in and read.

I used to be an escort. I chose to do this and I was professional about it and had repeat clients. I saw many men like your dad so I thought some "inside" insight might help.

A really common thing I heard from men was that they loved their wife but there was no romantic love left. Romantic love doesn't just mean sex, it is a whole big mix of things. Chances are, at 65, your mom is no longer the same sexual being she was when she was 20 or 30 or 40. In a situation like this often the man is seeking out things that he used to have but are now gone. Maybe your parents used to flirt sexually and make sex jokes. Maybe she used to make him feel wanted sexually but now does not. For a lot of women as they get older they become less interested in these things. I know myself, at 35, I am much less sex-focussed than I was even 5 years ago. But the change doesn't always happen for men. They get older and they have less energy to initiate this kind of behaviour perhaps but they still want it, and maybe they still need it to feel good about themselves.

While we would have sex, sex was never the point of the appointment. Most would want it, but I think it was more to justify the money they were spending -- Why see an escort and not have sex? Truthfully what the men I saw who were in a situation you have described really wanted was to be desired. To have their peac*ck feathers fluffed and to feel like a "real" man -- whatever that means.

I did see other men who told me that they respected their wife and thought she was a great person but the love was gone. They stayed together for the sake of the children and for other financial or emotional reasons but the love was gone and so they sought fake love as a somewhat sh*tty but basically adequate replacement.

Most men that see escorts who are cheating when they do it, believe that what they are doing is not as wrong as "real" cheating. They are paying a professional for a service that she provides. There will never be a romantic relationship, their loyalty and duty to their family will not be compromised. They see this as a safer alternative to cheating with a one night stand or someone they know with whom they could become attached. And to be honest I agree with them. I still don't think it's right to cheat of course but the key point here is their attachment to the woman is fairly nil. That woman can be replaced by any number of other women that fit the description they are attracted to. They are not cheating WITH someone. They are cheating ON their partner but not with someone. They are instead cheating with a concept and it is less personal that way.

If you want to talk more please private message me as I don't want this thread to turn into an argument about if escorts are okay or not so I will not reply again.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Mountains - yes as a man I want to thank you for expressing this.

We don't talk or think like women, so our needs go unmet as women age and neglect this key part of us.

I am probably stronger and more traditionally "masculine" than OP's dad, and was willing to destabilize my marriage to address this issue. It's been a couple of years and she is still a little on eggshells. I attribute my ability to destabilize my marriage to TAM and learning to convey this marital crises in terms a woman can understand. I dislike the fact that she's uncertain about us... but I am glad we are addressing the issue.

OP this takes great resolve on the part of dad to disrupt his marriage enough to cause mom to address his needs when she feels this is not important. It is probably far easier for him to let her be happy than upset her. But it requires him to go outside to get his need to be desired met.

If this is the issue, mom will have to be prepared to change her relationship to meet dad's needs. Could be very hard particularly if she doesn't really "desire" him.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

mountains said:


> Listen, there are way too many replies here for me to go through them and honestly I am in my own situation that makes me not want to read other people's messages but when I saw your topic I had to click in and read.
> 
> I used to be an escort. I chose to do this and I was professional about it and had repeat clients. I saw many men like your dad so I thought some "inside" insight might help.
> 
> ...


I don’t buy this. I think it’s a party line used to make the prostitute and the John feel better about themselves.

How many men would be ok with their wife seeking to relive her youth with other men? After all men are as likely to make a marriage sexless as women are. When men age, many tend to have much lower sexual desire. So I guess they would be ok with their wives doing the same thing?

There is a pretty good possibility that a good number of your clients were actually men who refused to have sex with their wives. Of course they would not tell you this. 

If a man has problems at home, instead of going to prostitutes, he really ought to be talking to his wife, getting into counseling/therapy and fixing things. Or he needs to leave the relationship. Anything short of that is being a coward.

As is always said here on TAM, there is no excuse for infidelity. And yes seeing prostitutes is infidelity.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Mountains - yes as a man I want to thank you for expressing this.
> 
> We don't talk or think like women, so our needs go unmet as women age and neglect this key part of us.
> 
> ...


I cannot believe that you are justifying men cheating on their wives. 

Would you also say it's ok for women to cheat?


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

@help93 are you ok? Check in when you can.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> I cannot believe that you are justifying men cheating on their wives.
> 
> Would you also say it's ok for women to cheat?


Neither is OK. But I appreciate Mountains' point of view on this as a former escort. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## help93 (Oct 27, 2015)

My brother is going away for a few days tomorrow morning so I will do it tomorrow morning, although I'm dreading it.

I don't doubt my dad loves my mum and I can understand the above posts why he might do this in terms of sexual desire but I strongly believe there is a line for dealing with sexual desire and paying women to meet up crosses this. I could say the same things about my mum, she might not desire my dad in that way but still love him however she would never go to the lengths my dad has. This is an explanation.. not an excuse.

Just because there is an explanation to why he has done this doesn't mean I can shrug my shoulders, turn the other way and pretend I'm perfectly fine with my dad for the rest of my life! The past few days are proof of this, I can't stand to be near him, talk to him at all or even look him in the face. In my heart I don't know if I can forgive, forget and move past this and only by speaking up is there a chance of moving forward. Although both my parents would be happier to continue the way things are, naive to my situation, what am I supposed to do?? I have to get this burden off me. As much as it terrifies me, any outcome cannot be the result of me speaking up, but the actions of my dad in the first place.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

help93 said:


> My brother is going away for a few days tomorrow morning so I will do it tomorrow morning, although I'm dreading it.
> 
> I don't doubt my dad loves my mum and I can understand the above posts why he might do this in terms of sexual desire but I strongly believe there is a line for dealing with sexual desire and paying women to meet up crosses this. I could say the same things about my mum, she might not desire my dad in that way but still love him however she would never go to the lengths my dad has. This is an explanation.. not an excuse.
> 
> Just because there is an explanation to why he has done this doesn't mean I can shrug my shoulders, turn the other way and pretend I'm perfectly fine with my dad for the rest of my life! The past few days are proof of this, I can't stand to be near him, talk to him at all or even look him in the face. In my heart I don't know if I can forgive, forget and move past this and only by speaking up is there a chance of moving forward. Although both my parents would be happier to continue the way things are, naive to my situation, what am I supposed to do?? I have to get this burden off me. As much as it terrifies me, any outcome cannot be the result of me speaking up, but the actions of my dad in the first place.


Well said, help. You sound like a very mature young woman.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

So I guess this means that when 19 years older hb can't get it up anymore I'm free to fvck other men as long as it's not personal? Or is it just a privilege of men to get it elsewhere when their needs aren't being met?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> So I guess this means that when 19 years older hb can't get it up anymore I'm free to fvck other men as long as it's not personal? Or is it just a privilege of men to get it elsewhere when their needs aren't being met?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Wish I'd realized that stepping outside of the marriage to get one's needs met was OK... I could have saved myself the heartbreak of divorce from my asexual husband and the demands of single-parenthood. Silly me....:frown2:


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Cosmos said:


> Wish I'd realized that stepping outside of the marriage to get one's needs met was OK... I could have saved myself the heartbreak of divorce from my asexual husband and the demands of single-parenthood. Silly me....:frown2:


Well if you'd had the wise counsel of a couple of posters here you'd have known 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> TheTruthHurts said:
> 
> 
> > Mountains - yes as a man I want to thank you for expressing this.
> ...


Please reread my post. I said nothing like that and am opposed to all forms of cheating.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

help93 said:


> My brother is going away for a few days tomorrow morning so I will do it tomorrow morning, although I'm dreading it.
> 
> I don't doubt my dad loves my mum and I can understand the above posts why he might do this in terms of sexual desire but I strongly believe there is a line for dealing with sexual desire and paying women to meet up crosses this. I could say the same things about my mum, she might not desire my dad in that way but still love him however she would never go to the lengths my dad has. This is an explanation.. not an excuse.
> 
> Just because there is an explanation to why he has done this doesn't mean I can shrug my shoulders, turn the other way and pretend I'm perfectly fine with my dad for the rest of my life! The past few days are proof of this, I can't stand to be near him, talk to him at all or even look him in the face. In my heart I don't know if I can forgive, forget and move past this and only by speaking up is there a chance of moving forward. Although both my parents would be happier to continue the way things are, naive to my situation, what am I supposed to do?? I have to get this burden off me. As much as it terrifies me, any outcome cannot be the result of me speaking up, but the actions of my dad in the first place.



I'm sorry you're even involved in this. It sucks. And yes understanding and excusing are two different things, but understanding is still very important.

Many people cheat because something is broken in then; others because they are narcissistic and just don't give a fvck; many do it to be mean; some to get their needs met without disrupting their marriage (in their minds).

I think your dad is in the last camp. I dint think he realizes the damage thus does to a marriage and family but we'll find out unfortunately.

With regard to your feelings, it's ok to be upset for your mom and family, but I am concerned about you not forgiving him. While it remains to be seen how he responds, this really is a betrayal to your mom and not to you. I agree there are issues with respect to the family, his father-daughter relationship isn't based on this and there isn't anything to forgive there. 

There is the damage to your perception of who he was - this might be what you're upset about. It is similar to a BS who has to confront the fact that they have put their spouse on a pedestal and the loss of status in their mind is a difficult thing to stomach. Perhaps that's what you are angry about. But maybe he has always been less perfect than you had pictured in your mind.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Cosmos said:


> Wish I'd realized that stepping outside of the marriage to get one's needs met was OK... I could have saved myself the heartbreak of divorce from my asexual husband and the demands of single-parenthood. Silly me....:frown2:


I agree. The same here. I did not realize that it's ok to go outside the marriage when my husband would not be meet my sexual needs. Who knew.....


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Please reread my post. I said nothing like that and am opposed to all forms of cheating.


You agreed with mountain.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> I don’t buy this.
> 
> If a man has problems at home, instead of going to prostitutes, he really ought to be talking to his wife, getting into counseling/therapy and fixing things. Or he needs to leave the relationship.


He should be. Any maybe he does. But that doesn't mean the wife is willing to participate. And I've seen hundreds of threads where the woman just wanted to be comfortable in a home and not have to mess with sex.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> TheTruthHurts said:
> 
> 
> > Please reread my post. I said nothing like that and am opposed to all forms of cheating.
> ...


I don't know what you're talking about.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> TheTruthHurts said:
> 
> 
> > Please reread my post. I said nothing like that and am opposed to all forms of cheating.
> ...


 Oh ok I remember mountain is the escort. Go back and retread my post. I don't know what you're talking about.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

turnera said:


> He should be. Any maybe he does. But that doesn't mean the wife is willing to participate. And I've seen hundreds of threads where the woman just wanted to be comfortable in a home and not have to mess with sex.


Men choose to make their marriages sexless as often as women do. It's an untrue stereotype that says that mostly, or only, women do this.

Could you imagine anyone here saying that it was ok for a woman whose husband withheld sex for a long time, for her to go out and cheat? It's never going to happen.

Take what mountain said and change the genders. It also fits when men are the ones withhold... except that there is not an entire industry that exists to sooth the pooooor, misunderstood women.

Why do you think women cheat? The same reasons that are listed in that post. 

.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Men choose to make their marriages sexless as often as women do. It's an untrue stereotype that says that mostly, or only, women do this.
> 
> Could you imagine anyone here saying that it was ok for a woman whose husband withheld sex for a long time, for her to go out and cheat? It's never going to happen.
> 
> ...


Except that there is. They are called gigolos. It may well be that there are not as many of them as female escorts but they do exist.


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

I don't think mountains or anyone else implied it's ok for a man or woman to go outside the marriage. The information was offered As insight not as an excuse. Even the OP viewed it as such.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> Except that there is. They are called gigolos. It may well be that there are not as many of them as female escorts but they do exist.


They do exist, in small numbers. They are also extremely expensive.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

inarut said:


> I don't think mountains or anyone else implied it's ok for a man or woman to go outside the marriage. The information was offered As insight not as an excuse. Even the OP viewed it as such.


We will have to agree to disagree. I think that mountain clearly said that there is no real issue with a married man using prostitutes because there is no emotional attachment.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> Men choose to make their marriages sexless as often as women do. It's an untrue stereotype that says that mostly, or only, women do this.


I strongly disagree.

Four out of five men who come here, do so because their wife has stopped wanting sex.

The other one out of five come here because their wife is cheating. And those women who cheat almost always are doing so because their man has stopped meeting her needs.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

turnera said:


> I strongly disagree.
> 
> Four out of five men who come here, do so because their wife has stopped wanting sex.


TAM is made up of a self-selecting group of people. It's much more supportive of men that it is of women. More men stay here than men because of this.

I also think that women are more likely to get support from their friends and family. Apparently men seldom build a strong support group in their real life. So it seems that in this day of the internet a good number end up on sites like TAM.

When I first came to TAM, any woman who dared to complain about their sexless marriage was ridiculed and insulted. I know... I was. It's why I seldom talk about it.. .it's not really a safe topic for a woman to bring up on TAM. It's not a safe topic for women to bring up in real life either.

The first time I tried to speak about the sexlessness in my marriage here on TAM I was laughed at, I was told that it was great to see this turned around on women, I was told that I probably deserve it. 

Men who come here with the issue are given empathy. Women, not so much. Yes it's gotten better more recently, but only because some of the women have been speaking up.. like on this thread.

It's about the same in real life. There is a lot of sympathy for men who complain about low sex or no sex marriages. There is usually no sympathy for women in this situation. after all, we are told that all men are horny all the time. So obviously, if our husband does not want sex with us, it's our fault.

It does not matter if you agree. I'm not using TAM to back up my statements. Instead I'm using research that has shown that men are as likely to chose to make their marriage sexless as women are. 



turnera said:


> The other one out of five come here because their wife is cheating. And those women who cheat almost always are doing so because their man has stopped meeting her needs.


Yes, women cheat at a rate almost the same as men do. This site, again is mostly a support system for men. CWI is especially a male centric forum. Of course women who cheat do so because their needs are not being met. Men who cheat generally cheat because their needs are not being met. But, if we rewrote that post to be talking about women... few if anyone on TAM would except it as a valid explanation, much less excuse, for women cheating. But apparently it's accepted for an explanation/excuse for why some men cheat.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

turnera said:


> I strongly disagree.
> *
> Four out of five men who come here, do so because their wife has stopped wanting sex.*
> 
> The other one out of five come here because their wife is cheating. And those women who cheat almost always are doing so because their man has stopped meeting her needs.


I believe that it's perhaps easier for men to admit to being in sexless marriages than it is for women. I was in a sexless marriage for 6 years, and I would have rather eaten the butt off a dead skunk than reveal this to _anyone_ other than my therapist. After all, men want sex all the time, and if my H didn't want sex with me... well, there had to be something _radically_ wrong with ME, right? Wrong - it transpired that he was asexual.

Also, we have to remember that TAM really is a bit of a twilight zone and a rather warped reflection of real life.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

meh

Just go to any library and look for the number of books on each subject. Women - in general - don't have the sex drive that men do. And they much more easily give up the 'need' for sex than men.

Are there women with strong sex drives? Of course there are. But I dare you to find any research that shows that women have as strong a drive as men, in general. It goes back to caveman days and, sociologically and physiologically, men have the stronger drive, to keep the species going.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

turnera said:


> meh
> 
> Just go to any library and look for the number of books on each subject. Women - in general - don't have the sex drive that men do. And they much more easily give up the 'need' for sex than men.
> 
> Are there women with strong sex drives? Of course there are. But I dare you to find any research that shows that women have as strong a drive as men, in general. It goes back to caveman days and, sociologically and physiologically, men have the stronger drive, to keep the species going.


Men and women certainly have _different_ sex drives, but I don't believe that it automatically follows that_ all_ males have stronger sex drives than _all_ women.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Up until about the 1960's it was believed that women did not enjoy sex; sex was just something that women allowed men to do to them. It was also believed that women did not have orgasms.

Medical books clearly stated the above. Any woman who dared to state the desire for sex was considered mentally ill. And if she actually had orgasms, or sought them out, she was diagnosed with female hysteria.. a serious mental illness.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

I do not see how debating how men and women are or have been treated here on TAM is helping the OP. Assertions about how would-be threads would be played out (e.g., reversing roles) seem even less likely to help.



If anyone wants to have such a debate, the most helpful thing to do is to start your own thread.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Something to keep in mind: By telling your mum, YOU are not hurting her. It is your DAD'S actions that are hurting her. He has betrayed the woman he made vows to. He is spending family money to do so. He is taking time away from your mum to do so.

She has already been wounded. The damage is done. The pain signal just hasn't traveled along the nerve and reached her brain yet.

You are doing her a favour by being that pain signal. Once the pain hits, then she can decide what to do about the wound that ALREADY EXISTS. Right now, though, she doesn't even know she should be flinching away.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

OP,



Your mom needs to understand the amount of money involved could be quite significant. Her financial solvency is at risk, and that alone is reason for her to not make the mistake if looking the other way.



If I were you, I would try very hard to make sure she looks closely at the amount if money he has been spending on this. Even if she doesn't leave him, she needs to take steps to protect their assets.





Also, I don't understand how at the beginning of the thread it seemed as if your dad was inept at hiding his activities from everyone in the house (just you, your brother, and mother), and then you were afraid if your brother knew about it he would immediately confront, and then now you are sure your mother doesn't know at all. Can you explain?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

PieceOfSky said:


> I do not see how debating how men and women are or have been treated here on TAM is helping the OP. Assertions about how would-be threads would be played out (e.g., reversing roles) seem even less likely to help.
> 
> 
> 
> If anyone wants to have such a debate, the most helpful thing to do is to start your own thread.


I agree that it can look like a thread jack.

The reason I believe that the topic is important is because I think it's harmful to tell a young girl/woman that men have a special need and thus special rights that women do not. 

It's harmful to put the idea in her head that somehow it's her mother who has caused her father to cheat with prostitutes or anyone else.

.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> I agree that it can look like a thread jack.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Those are good points, I happen to agree with them, and I am glad you have made them. FWIW, stating them like that, even I am able to hear them; I did not catch them before.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> I agree that it can look like a thread jack.
> 
> The reason I believe that the topic is important is because I think it's harmful to tell a young girl/woman that men have a special need and thus special rights that women do not.
> 
> ...


Which was my reason for climbing in here, too.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Thinking about you this morning, @help93


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

I am thinking of you too...


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Ele, is it okay to answer Turnera's dare?


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## help93 (Oct 27, 2015)

I came here looking for support and advice , I did find it. However please respect that this is my genuine life and remember that sometimes an honest opinion or disagreement is hurtful.


Gave my mum the letter this afternoon when we were alone. She had her suspicions but not to the extent I discovered and agreed dad had crossed the line and she felt betrayed. She told me she was thankful I had told her and sorry I had to carry this, I cried a lot and we hugged and talked. 

I left it to mum to bring this up with dad. She later told me he admitted everything and was heartbroken he had hurt the family and accepts all the blame. He wanted to stop, in some ways he was relieved the issue was now on the table. He gave the reasoning why he did this as discussed before, but mum agreed with me, this isn't an excuse and made it clear where she stands on this. Dad has sworn to stop. Both my mum and me know, he values our family above all.

As I mentioned in the start, their marriage shows no sign of trouble. Mum told me if their relationship had already been strained and difficult this would be the final straw however this is not the case. I think because of this they have agreed to work on their marriage considerably. Where this will lead we are not sure, but for now they are working on mending the relationship.

I am worried about my relationship with my Dad. I haven't spoken to him yet. I am totally stuck on how I can work on moving forward and having a relationship with him again? He does understand that I need distance and time. 

I can say to have this out in the open, although terrifying, is a huge relief. I've cried a lot, hugged a lot and feel as if my entire body has released one final sigh. I don't know what the future holds for either my parents relationships or the relationship with my Dad. I can only hope that honesty and the goal of stronger relationships can mend this wound.

I say all of this in case someone finds themselves in a similar situation and takes comfort reading this and knowing they are not alone.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

You handled things well, OP, and I hope your parents manage to get through this together.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Let him know he betrayed you, too, and he needs to make it up to you. Let him figure out how.


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

Youre a very mature and intelligent young lady. I'm glad you chose the avenue you felt most comfortable with. I wish the best for you and your family.


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

Does your dad know anything about the conversation you had with your mom, along with the letter?

Although it does seem like your family is handling this terrible incident remarkably well. Given the situation.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Ele, is it okay to answer Turnera's dare?


I think not on this thread. We need to stop the thread jack and respect help93. (That includes me  )

Maybe start a new one with her post quoted. It might be a good thread.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

help93 said:


> I came here looking for support and advice , I did find it. However please respect that this is my genuine life and remember that sometimes an honest opinion or disagreement is hurtful.
> 
> 
> Gave my mum the letter this afternoon when we were alone. She had her suspicions but not to the extent I discovered and agreed dad had crossed the line and she felt betrayed. She told me she was thankful I had told her and sorry I had to carry this, I cried a lot and we hugged and talked.
> ...



I'm sure that was very hard for you. I think I can speak for all of us being proud of you for being so strong.

Prayers for you and your family {{{{{hugs}}}}}


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> I think not on this thread. We need to stop the thread jack and respect help93. (That includes me  )
> 
> Maybe start a new one with her post quoted. It might be a good thread.


Yeah, after I posted I decided I'm going to leave it alone. There are some interesting studies and a book out, but it will turn into a lopsided gender debate. I'm not going there.


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## BrokenLady (Jan 19, 2015)

Op. you have presented yourself so well under horrible circumstances. I would be so proud if you were my daughter. I hope that your family recovers & your father recognizes the appology & gratitude that you deserve.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Good job young lady. You're still s kid in my book and you've done well. I think you and dad will be fine in time - you describe him as a good man who loves his little girl and vise versa.


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