# In The Final Stretch



## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

Well, it's almost over. The divorce process, that is. Down to just arguing about how much support I'll have to pay, and for how long. Hopefully things will be finalized sometime this fall. And yet....

I have intentionally avoided this and other internet forums for a few months because I realized my codependent tendencies had me playing the victim and seeking constant validation. I've been working on these issues in therapy and also attending a Codependents Anonymous support group. I'm working harder at setting boundaries in my life with EVERYONE, not just my STBX. I'm feeling a little stronger every day.

Her behavior still confuses the hell out of me. Because of our son, I will continue to interact with her indefinitely. I wish I could just go NC and be done with it, but that's not in the cards, so I've got to figure out how to coparent with minimal drama.

And the fact is, I think the lack of drama is confusing. During the rare times I do interact with her, she seems SO freaking normal (at least superficially) that I doubt my own experience. Yesterday, she was all excited to share with me some tidbit she read about in a magazine about how a pinch of baking soda in lemonade will reduce the acidity (sounds gross to me, but I digress). In other words, when I drop by to pick up my son, she makes small talk in a friendly way as if she views us as friends.

Maybe I should be grateful. But it confuses me. Is this the same woman who was screaming at me 18 months ago for "violating her sanctuary" when I slept in the wrong bed? Or who got me reported to Children's Services for something I never even did? WTH?

Then there are moments when I see a peak of the old insanity. We had a meeting the other day with a child psychologist who is evaluating our son over adjustment issues. When the shrink asked about family stressors, my wife rapidly volunteered that we were going through a divorce, as if that were the totality of the problem. I decided I was done being passive... I spoke up and told the psychologist that our son had witnessed things no little one should ever have to see. Mommy screaming at Daddy over the "wrong" kind of noodles. Mommy threatening to take him and run away and hide from me. Mommy accusing Daddy of bugging the phones. Mommy falsely accusing Daddy of abuse and affairs. Mommy telling everyone her younger sister wanted to kidnap him. My point was that the whole picture needed to be seen if the psychologist was going to help our son.

His mom (my STBX) became defensive and began trying to respond to my statement. My favorite quote: "I never accused you of affairs in front of him, so I don't see why that's relevant..." Not once have I ever heard anything like, "Honey, I'm so sorry I accused you of having an affair when in reality you worked hard to keep your vows, even when my insanity was probably pushing you away...." or anything like that. Not one single apology. But lots of justification...."Well, I only accused him of affairs in private, so that's not relevant..."

Perhaps the "happy-go-lucky" persona is another way of invalidating my experience. She can rage, accuse me of bizarre things, and tarnish my name by slander, insinuation, and outright false information....then try to engage in small talk about lemonade as if we're best friends. 

But still...the normal days sometimes make me forget the bat-s**t days. I'm almost tempted to forget that I spent an entire weekend, scared to death the phone was going to ring or the cops were going to show up at my door over an untrue allegation she had made. 

Don't get me wrong. I have ZERO emotional attachment left for her. But I do still feel obligation and guilt. No normal man just walks away from his family if there's a way to save it. As the Declaration of Indpendence says, most men are "disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable" rather than tear a family apart. (I know the Declaration of Independence is an entirely different concept, but I've always liked that phrase!  )

The day I left, I was convinced that the insanity was not "sufferable" any more. But on the days when she's acting SO freaking normal, I doubt my own experience.

Maybe I'm not as strong as I thought I was.......

But I am working on it.

My therapist calls my STBX a "ticking time bomb." She says that she is "emotionally unsafe" for me and that her "nice" act is just superficial. And on my better days I agree. It's just so hard for someone who is sane (at least I hope I am) to understand how so much anger, vindictiveness, and reviling can co-exist in the same mind as the (supposedly) sweet, charming, personable woman that I've seen at my former house lately. My best friend (who fortuitously enough, is also a psychologist) says I should be thankful I don't understand that kind of disordered thinking. But I guess I still try to.

Just needed to vent.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hurt,

What you are seeing is the parts of her personality she wishes to show you.

Are you the "same man" at work as you are at home?


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

hurtnohio said:


> It's just so hard for someone who is sane (at least I hope I am) to understand how so much anger, vindictiveness, and reviling can co-exist in the same mind as the (supposedly) sweet, charming, personable woman that I've seen at my former house lately.


Hurt, if your STBXW has strong BPD traits as we've been discussing since July 2011, that unpredictable behavior is to be expected. That is the way emotionally unstable people behave. They cannot tolerate duality of feelings, i.e., experiencing two conflicting feelings at the same time. 

They therefore split off the opposing set of feelings and allow their conscious minds to be in touch with only one set of feelings (e.g., love or hate). As we discussed, this is why BPDers generally perceive everyone as "all good" (i.e., "with me") or "all bad" (i.e., "against me"). And they will recategorize someone, in just a few seconds, from one polar extreme to the other based solely on a minor comment or action.

Hence, if your STBXW has strong BPD traits, her feeling good about you does NOT mean you are on safe territory. As you know all too well, she can flip to hating you in ten seconds if something triggers her fears.


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## pepsi1967 (Aug 15, 2013)

has this thought crossed your mind? how safe is my child with STBEXW? will psychologist find that she is unstable? will I need to be the more dependable parent so that when my son is with me I am strong for him and can be a good male role model? you have been through the storm and the end is near. you stuck it out. yes, your going to miss the family unit but you can find a new one in time that includes your son...preferably a more healthier one. hang in there.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

I'm BPD and my moods could flip on a dime (I'm past this after years of therapy). One minute I'd think you are the greatest person ever and the next you are the devil himself out to get me. 

It comes down to triggers. If I live with you the triggers are constant like living with a bunch of dogs and I'm allergic. If I don't live with you my symptoms subside and I'm not so sneezy/crazy.

My therapist says my BPD is a disability. There are limits to the amount of stimulation I can handle. Too much stress and stimulation means I will absolutely get upset over 'using the wrong kind of noodles'. 

Learning to self regulate this has taken me the better part of a decade and I wanted it. Most do not because they aren't even aware they have a problem. BPD'ers cannot be at fault because we fear harsh punishment. The answer then is to blame everyone else.


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

pepsi1967 said:


> has this thought crossed your mind? how safe is my child with STBEXW? will psychologist find that she is unstable? will I need to be the more dependable parent so that when my son is with me I am strong for him and can be a good male role model? you have been through the storm and the end is near. you stuck it out. yes, your going to miss the family unit but you can find a new one in time that includes your son...preferably a more healthier one. hang in there.


Yes, my son's well-being is my greatest concern. Sometimes, he give little hints that he has been affected by what he witnessed. He has a high level of anxiety. He told me one day out of the clear blue, "Daddy...I didn't like it the way you and Momma used to argue....it made me tired and I just wanted it to quit...." (I also feel sleepy when I'm around her; I think it's a somatic response)

We were in a settlement conference with our lawyers a couple of weeks ago. We had presented a counter-offer on spousal support. My STBX started hyperventilating, ran out of the room, threw up, came back and said that she was planning on living off my support for the next 18 years until our son goes to college, then she is going to move in with some of her family. (She's 41, and she's already planning her "retirement" as moving in with her crazy family). After observing that entire little scene, my lawyer told me she has grave concerns about my STBX's suitability as a mother.

But my lawyer further cautioned me about making the current fight bigger than it needs to be. Our strategy for now: Get the divorce finalized, with me retaining joint legal custody. And then document, document, document. And at some point in the future, we can always petition the court for primary custody. But my lawyer has straight-forwardly told me I just don't have strong enough case right now. What I've seen and reported to my lawyer is concerning, but unless she's strung out on crack or letting our son starve to death, it's hard to get our local courts to take a child from his mother and award primary custody to the father. One of my lawyer's specialities is family law, and she's intimately familiar with the local courts and their whims. My lawyer isn't happy about the wait-and-see approach, but her advice is to do just that for now.

But to answer your question, yes, I am concerned about my son. And yes, I suspect the psychologist was really evaluating ALL of us (me, my son, and his mom) trying to determine what's really going on. I can't help but wonder what the psychologist thought about "Well, I only accused you of affairs in private, so why is this relevant?"


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

Uptown said:


> Hurt, if your STBXW has strong BPD traits as we've been discussing since July 2011, that unpredictable behavior is to be expected. That is the way emotionally unstable people behave. They cannot tolerate duality of feelings, i.e., experiencing two conflicting feelings at the same time.
> 
> They therefore split off the opposing set of feelings and allow their conscious minds to be in touch with only one set of feelings (e.g., love or hate). As we discussed, this is why BPDers generally perceive everyone as "all good" (i.e., "with me") or "all bad" (i.e., "against me"). And they will recategorize someone, in just a few seconds, from one polar extreme to the other based solely on a minor comment or action.
> 
> Hence, if your STBXW has strong BPD traits, her feeling good about you does NOT mean you are on safe territory. As you know all too well, she can flip to hating you in ten seconds if something triggers her fears.


Uptown, there are about 5 people in my life who have helped me see the light. Three of them are "real life" flesh-and-blood friends who've known me for years. I also have two internet "friends," who I've conversed with and who have helped me gain a lot of insight. You're one of them. I'm not sure I would have been anywhere near as far along my path of recovery had it not been for your insight.

I know enough not to consider myself "on safe territory" with her, ever. I keep a pocket mp3 player recording any time I'm interacting with her. I also have it recording anytime I have visitation time with my son. I download the audio every night to my computer for future use. One night I was downloading that day's audio while I was talking on the phone with a friend. I started chuckling to myself and made a comment: "You know, when you step back a second and realize that you're downloading audio from your life today just in case you're ever accused of abuse in the future, it should probably be an indication to you that the relationship you're involved in is toxic...."

But, ah, the guilt! She didn't always behave this way. Of course now, I suspect that was when she was splitting me "good." And when a couple of months goes by without a blowup, I question whether maybe I'm "too sensitive" or maybe I'm holding a grudge or maybe I just expect too much. Clearly, I still need to resolve some of my own issues before I can feel OK about this.

I know in my head she is toxic. But sometimes my heart makes me feel guilty.

I was talking to my best friend (the psychologist) about this one night. I asked him if it was possible to keep a person with BPD traits happy if I could just learn and avoid the triggers. He said, "Hurnohio, do you know what triggers someone with BPD? Having an opinion of your own. Establishing boundaries. Disagreeing with them. You can't avoid triggers if you are living your life authentically."

I can certainly understand why some of our mutual friends can't understand why I'm leaving. They only see the "nice" her, the charming one. They literally could not conceive of her acting the way I've described. Worse, they've believe her "poor me" act and see me as the aggressor. It's beyond messed up. But sometimes ***I**** don't even believe my own experience. I can't fault anyone who didn't live it if they don't believe me.

I guess if there's any good news here, maybe it's this: I don't guess I have BPD.  Because I can definitely hold two conflicting thoughts (and the resulting emotions) in mind at the same time.... she acts nice and charming, and she's also toxic beyond words. (That was a lame attempt at levity!)

Thanks for the reminders. It's messed up beyond words.

I'm in the home stretch now. I'm hoping to get all this finalized and continue working toward healing myself. I gotta admit, it's been so refreshing to establish and maintain boundaries. I'm finding that the world doesn't end and I don't die when I defend a boundary. It feels good and I can't believe it took me this long to address my own codependence. Of course, I didn't even KNOW I was codependent for a long time.

Thanks again, Uptown. I don't think you'll ever realize how much you've helped me gain insight into this mess. If it gives any meaning to your suffering (including that weekend you spent in jail on bogus charges), your experience and insight helped me more than you'll ever know. Thanks, man!


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## pepsi1967 (Aug 15, 2013)

smart lawyer, so glad you found a good one. it's the better game plan. Watch your son for signs of anxiety. my daughter was affected by our fighting and she is that way too. STBEXW truly was planning on living off the fat....don't budge on that support, she'll figure out how to manage. Joint custody is definitely the way to go.


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

Been mulling this stuff again overnight. I think I've realized a lot of this is about invalidation. She can't accept my reasons for leaving, so she just assumes I'm having an affair or am going crazy, or whatever. (My son told me one day that he wanted to be just like me...he wanted to go crazy. I asked what he meant. He said Daddies just go crazy sometimes. Anyone wanna bet on where he probably heard that?) 

So she's already emotionally divorced me. The only thing holding us together is paperwork. But she'll never accept my stated reasons - namely that I'm feeling emotionally abused and I had to act to protect myself. She'll never get that. So she's already put our marriage in the grave in her mind. I'm now just another family friend, so she can be nice to me.

Talk about invalidating.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

hurtnohio said:


> Been mulling this stuff again overnight. I think I've realized a lot of this is about invalidation. She can't accept my reasons for leaving, so she just assumes I'm having an affair or am going crazy, or whatever. (My son told me one day that he wanted to be just like me...he wanted to go crazy. I asked what he meant. He said Daddies just go crazy sometimes. Anyone wanna bet on where he probably heard that?)
> 
> So she's already emotionally divorced me. The only thing holding us together is paperwork. But she'll never accept my stated reasons - namely that I'm feeling emotionally abused and I had to act to protect myself. She'll never get that. So she's already put our marriage in the grave in her mind. I'm now just another family friend, so she can be nice to me.
> 
> ...


She won't allow you to take the victim chair.

It's hers and hers alone.

An Overview of the Drama Triangle


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

hurtnohio said:


> I'm feeling emotionally abused and I had to act to protect myself. She'll never get that.


Even if she does "get it," Hurt, it won't change a thing. My BPDer exW, for example, understood what I was saying on perhaps five occasions during our 15 year marriage. These times of sudden self awareness are called "moments of clarity." 

But, sadly, they have no lasting effect whatsoever. Within a few weeks (or days or hours), all of that insight will be washed aside by the next tide of feelings flooding her mind. As you know, BPDers regard those intense feelings as facts. By the way, Hurt, thanks so much for the kind words -- and for returning to give us such a nicely detailed update.


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## wtf2012 (Oct 22, 2012)

Thanks everyone for this discussion. It has been very helpful to me.


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

An additional update...not seeking any advice here, just venting....

Our son has been acting out a bit the last couple of weeks. Who knows why? Is it a 5-year old phase? Is it from living with his mom? Is it anxiety over the separation? All of the above?

Today when I went to pick him up for visitation, she stepped outside the door and said she wanted to speak to me privately. She said his behavior has been out of control this week, and she wanted to know if we should "revisit" the issue of whether to begin spanking again or not.

Is she f--ing kidding? REALLY?

I told her I was NOT OK with that, since the last time I ever spanked him (2 years ago), I ended up getting reported to Children's Services - by her, and 18 months after the fact. That whole mess just died down back in April, and now she wants to reopen the possibility of spanking? I think not...

So she said, "What would you think about the divorce decree saying that I'm the only one who's allowed to spank him, but no one else can."

I told her that was not OK either, since the clear implication there is that I'm dangerous and she's not.

She said she understood. Yeah, right....

This divorce cannot get finalized quickly enough!!!!


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Hurt, thanks for the update. Yes, bizarre behavior -- but not unexpected. As you know so well, a BPDer sees nothing wrong in using a double standard -- one set of standards for herself and another set for everyone else. Moreover, both sets will be regularly changed, depending on what mood she is in at the time. This is the way emotionally unstable people behave, especially when they have a fragile sense of self identity, as is the case with untreated BPDers. I therefore agree with you that your D "cannot get finalized quickly enough."


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Hurtn -- your situation is very similar to mine in a lot of ways, in that my ex exhibited a lot of disordered traits that were not evident to other people. He adamantly denies being emotionally abusive, etc., etc. I also reached a point after I had moved away for about a year that I doubted myself that things were really _that bad_. What helped was re-reading some of the journals I wrote immediately after I moved out. It was all very fresh then, and very raw. It brought a lot of it back to me. I remember writing in the thread I have in GTDS (my old thread, but it's still there) about a bad triggering event I went through after having an extended conversation with him. They have a very definite way of messing with our heads. It's not unusual to seek validation, especially if nobody else (or maybe just us and our young children) saw this behavior. Part of their MO was to blameshift, and gaslight, and tell us _we_ were crazy, remember? It takes a while to get over that. Almost like deprogramming after being in a cult. Learning to trust your own feelings and thoughts after being told you couldn't and shouldn't for so long. 

So don't be hard on yourself. You are in IC, working on your issues. That puts you light-years ahead of her. And really, it's great that your son trust you enough to tell you his feelings. That says good things about you as a dad. 

Mine has not reached the point of sharing tidbits from magazines, or anything like that. I'm still firmly split black, and his posGF (who I suspect has her own issues, having known her before they started their EA-turned-PA) is only too happy to join in. It's been very difficult dealing with them, which I must keep doing because of our son. I'd hoped that with the divorce, things would change, but they really haven't, because he hasn't changed.


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

Uptown said:


> Hurt, thanks for the update. Yes, bizarre behavior -- but not unexpected. As you know so well, a BPDer sees nothing wrong in using a double standard -- one set of standards for herself and another set for everyone else. Moreover, both sets will be regularly changed, depending on what mood she is in at the time. This is the way emotionally unstable people behave, especially when they have a fragile sense of self identity, as is the case with untreated BPDers. I therefore agree with you that your D "cannot get finalized quickly enough."


My best friend just happens to be a psychologist. He made a good point yesterday....in a lot of ways, her behavior is all about whatever makes her look good in her own mind. If it suits her to be a victim or a martyr, she'll paint me as an abuser all day long, so she can present herself as the heroic victim. But our son's behavior is now calling her competence as a parent into question, so she's suddenly looking to me for advice, even willing to revisit an issue that was radioactive 3 months ago.

I'm seeing it more clearly now...as my therapist said last week, the "nice" act was superficial. To use an exact quote from my therapist, she's a "ticking time bomb."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

hurtnohio said:


> But our son's behavior is now calling her competence as a parent into question, so she's suddenly looking to me for advice, even willing to revisit an issue that was radioactive 3 months ago


You are being baited. If she can reel you in she can blame you for it.


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

A quick update. Our son had his formal evaluation with the psychologist yesterday. Her initial take is this: Yes, our son has some behavioral issues. But her initial take is that he is not autistic (my STBX seemed for a while to be enjoying the sympathy she was getting from telling folks he "might" be autistic. But apparently the reality of what that meant settled her down on THAT particular enthusiasm. But maybe I'm biased...)

During the evaluation when all three of us were together, he was yelling or screaming at some point and I placed my hand gently on his head and said, "Use your inside voice, buddy..." He looked over at me and said, "I hope you die soon, Daddy..." This isn't the first time he's said this to me, but it is the first time he's said it in front of a shrink. I did notice her making some notes when he said that.

I've suspected there's some covert / subtle parental alienation going on for a while. When my son says he wants to kill me or he wished I would die soon, I guess that could go two ways. Either I really AM as abusive as his mother says I am. Or else he's being alienated from me in a thousand silent, subtle ways. 

I had a final session the other night with our formal marriage counselor. I've started seeing my own therapist, to help me with my codependent issues that caused me to be blind to the madness for too long. But I wanted to have one final meeting with the counselor who tried to help us save our marriage, if nothing else but for a sense of closure. Kinda a final session to tell her, "If nothing else, thanks for trying...."

She made a couple of observations: (1) My STBX is engaging in emotional incest with our son. There's an unhealthy level of enmeshment that is harmful; (2) Me getting started with my own IC counselor is entirely appropriate. She wished me luck; and, (3) In her words...."Do not walk....RUN AWAY!"

Hoping this divorce gets finalized soon. I know co-parenting with her is going to be hell, but still.....


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Hurt, thanks for giving us another detailed update. I'm glad to hear that you've ended MC. My experience has been that it is a total waste of time when one party has strong BPD traits that are untreated. As to IC evaluating your son, I find your son's comment during the session ("die soon, Daddy") to be chilling. Yes, it sure sounds like parental alienation has been going on, combined with the enmeshment that your MC spoke about. And, yes, co-parenting with your STBX almost certainly is going to be very difficult.


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

Here's a long overdue update: After several months of evaluation and waiting, I had a meeting today with a developmental pediatrician about my son's anxiety issues.

The good news is that there is no evidence of autism or Asperger's syndrome. I would, of course, still love him if he had either of those disorders, but I'm glad for him that he won't be struggling with these.

The official diagnosis is a severe anxiety disorder. The recommendation of the doctor was that he continue the child therapy that he's currently receiving and we should bring him back for a re-evaluation in a year.

Does anybody have any experience with anxiety disorder in children? Especially when the parents are experiencing a divorce?

Some of the initial symptoms that caused concern actually occurred BEFORE I moved out, which tells me the seeds of his anxiety were probably sown during the high-conflict period of time between my STBX and me.

I sometimes feel guilt at times like this....is his anxiety caused by the insanity going on between his mother and me prior to me moving out? Or is it the actual divorce that is causing his anxiety?

Regarding the legal machinations: My lawyer has recommended I quit trying to negotiate with my STBX and that we go to trial. My lawyer says we can do better at trial than continuing to try to negotiate with a controlling ex. The trial is scheduled for the end of January.

Not sure what comes next. but I'm ready for the drama to be over.....


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Hurt, welcome back to the TAM forum! Again, thanks for remembering us and giving us an update. I'm so glad to hear that your son's test results show no evidence of autism or Aspergers. That is wonderful news!

As to the likely source of your son's anxiety disorder, my view is that it likely is due to his having a mother who exhibits strong BPD traits, including her yelling at you in front of your son. Also, she may have passed along genes to him that predispose him to having anxiety. In any event, I believe your separation from her -- which offers your son a normal environment at least half the time -- will be to his betterment.


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

Another update.....I wish things were final, but not yet....

I've noticed a few things lately about my son that concern me. One thing is, he is always very reluctant to visit with me. He'll tell me I'm "making a bad choice" by making him come with me. He's told me he wants to kill me, he wishes I would die, or just that I'm a bad person for "taking" him away from Momma. But what's weird is, after two minutes in my car, he seems perfectly content to be with me. If I didn't know better, I'd say he is putting on a show for his mother, as if throwing a fit and pretending he doesn't want to leave her side is intended more for her benefit than his. Not sure what to make of that.

The other thing is, he has been prone lately to excessive apologizing. I mean, I know lots of parents who wish their kids would apologize when they make a mistake. But not like this. He'll accidentally knock a toy over onto the floor and he'll instantly start saying, "Sorry, sorry...I'm so sorry....that was an accident....I'm so sorry...." He sounds sincere (he's not trying to make a joke or anything), but his apologies are just a little bit over the top.

I got an interesting phone call today from my lawyer. I won't divulge everything that was discussed, but in talking with opposing counsel, my lawyer says that my wife's lawyer is definitely starting to see that there are some unhealthy behaviors involved. Obviously, he has to still go to court and fight for his client, but I think he's starting to sense something not quite "right" with her as well.

We go to trial on January 31. Unless we come up with an agreement by then.

Anyone wanna bet on the odds of an actual agreement being possible?


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Hurt, thanks for the update. I hope you had a good holiday period with your son. His excessive apologizing -- perhaps indicating he is overly defensive due to frequently being blamed for everything -- is worrisome. Would be interesting to hear what his therapist has to say about that. Meanwhile, I wish you the very best outcome on Jan 31.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

Uptown said:


> Hurt, thanks for the update. I hope you had a good holiday period with your son. His excessive apologizing -- perhaps indicating he is overly defensive due to frequently being blamed for everything -- is worrisome. Would be interesting to hear what his therapist has to say about that. Meanwhile, I wish you the very best outcome on Jan 31.


Or she's taking her anger out on him since hurt isn't there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

I had a long overdue meeting with my son's counselor yesterday. She told me there's a recurring theme lately in his therapy; he has a fear that I'm going to come into his room after he's asleep and kidnap him. He even drew a picture of him laying in bed and me coming in, looking mean.

I'm still trying to process that....and I really feel badly for him. It must be awful to think your Daddy is such a monster.

I just don't even have the words....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Well, Hurt, I hope you find the words to tell your son's counselor about how your Ex has put such horrible thoughts into his head that he says he wants to kill you and wants you dead because you keep taking him away from mother.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Uptown said:


> Well, Hurt, I hope you find the words to tell your son's counselor about how your Ex has put such horrible thoughts into his head that he says he wants to kill you and wants you dead because you keep taking him away from mother.


No way to say this better.

She's a special kind of mendacious nutjob.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

pidge70 said:


> Or she's taking her anger out on him since hurt isn't there.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She's got to dump it somewhere.


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