# Wife was Seeing Someone Else when were Dating - Help



## Gottodeal2 (Jul 24, 2015)

I am having a really hard time coping with the fact that my wife was seeing someone else during the first year we were together. 

We've been together for five years, married two, we have a great relationship and have worked through many tough things, but this news took me by surprised. I was on her email account (with her permission), to search for details from a friend and there was email from another person dating back to May 2010. 

I asked my wife and she confessed that she was dating both us for the first eight months of our relationship. I had no idea. She was very distance during the early parts of our relationship, but once she opened up, our love blossomed and I couldn't imagine my life with anyone else. She said she got caught up in feelings for both of us and ended with him when she realized she was in love with me. I saw the facebook messages and emails, and the timelines make sense. 

More than anything, I'm just hurt she didn't tell me before we got married. I would have forgiven her and still wanted to be her, but she hid it. I feel like a fool for not seeing that the distance, being emotionally unavailable, lack of "I love you" was not normal. 

I love this woman so much. She's kind, caring, thoughtful and has been incredibly supportive during some of my personal struggles. I need help putting this into perspective.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Lets defining seeing both of you.....are you saying she was sleeping with both of you? It's one thing to just be dating and kissing still another thing to be running between beds.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Hmm...

Are they still dating?


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

Xenote said:


> Lets defining seeing both of you.....are you saying she was sleeping with both of you? It's one thing to just be dating and kissing still another thing to be running between beds.


Come on.. Yea she was fvcking the both of them.. Unless they met when they were 12 and now 17.. 

I will tell you what was stupid.. That she kept that fvcking email.. Holy crap what is wrong with her.. Don't bring her along to kill someone, that's for sure..

But now the cat is out of the bag.. I can only assume that "YOU" thought it was a monogamous relationship.. 

If she lead you to believe that falsely, well then she cheated on you.. 

8 months is a long time, but it's not 8 years.. She begs forgiveness, says a few hail marys and gives you some anal, you're allowed to take pics and we call it even.. If she does something like this again you post the pics on HER FB page.. Let her get banned, not you.

Look I'm not looking to minimize it.. But you need to make sure this other person is OUT of the picture here.. Not that he has been lurking around all these years.. 

If it is all clear, than you are allowed to express how upset you are.. You are allowed to be disappointed with her and she should feel like sh!t.. 

If she gives you the it was before we were married bullsh!t.. Tell her to GTFO and that you need time to figure this out.. Send her to her parents or call them to get her.. Don't say sh!t to them.. Let her TRY to explain it and why she still has this email.. 

I am positive she will sh!t her fvcking pants.. This is the time to build up some Alpha with her.. This is a time she should never forget because it will mark her anytime she gets some inkling to even think of doing something in the future.. She will reflect back on this time and say no fvcking way.. He was gonna divorce me when he found out I cheated before we were married.. 

He would kill me now and then divorce me if I did anything while being married.. Get what I'm saying.. 

But if you BETA up and act all mushy and whiny, like how could you do this to me.. She will NOT fear doing this while being married to you.. Because she knows poor Gottodeal2 will just cry and take her back..


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

What do you want?

Get some specific ideas and post them.

If you want opinions. We will all respond personally.

I would probably divorce. Cheaters seriously gross me out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Scads of women are dating other men when they start dating their future spouse. It was your job my man to make her want to give up these other cats for you. Did she give them up?


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

By what you posted I'm trying to get an idea of her mindset. You dated for a year and during this time she was also dating someone else. After a year of dating TWO people she decided she loved you. Then she never confessed until you have been married for two years, but you've been together a total of five years. Well, I'm assuming the deception and lies you received during the first year are hard to accept. I'm also assuming that you have now noticed she has lied to year for a total of five years. 

Questions for you. Do you want to divorce? Do you want to reconcile? Did she have sex with both of you during the first year? Can you accept that? Do you have trust for her? Do you think this relationship is over with the OM? Do you think your relationship is over? How is she acting, hurt, remorseful, sorry, regretful, humiliated, shameful? Can you ever trust her again after her double life?

Questions for her. Are you lucky she chose you? Do you think your husband won in the contest of having a lying cheat for a wife? Will you cheat again? Are you remorseful for cheating? Are you and the OM over? Are you seeing anyone else now? Do you think I should trust you? If the roles were reversed would you stay? If the roles were reversed how would you feel? Is plan B coming to mind? What took you so long to decide? How selfish do you look to me now? 

I'm sorry buddy but I see nothing but pain in your future. It boggles my mind that she dated two people for a year BEFORE she decided she loved you. I see her as waiting for something better to coke along and then running off with him. She appears to be toxic from the little information you have which makes me believe she isn't remorseful. The fact she told you if tool a year to decide she loved you is damning enough. I kind of can't stop thinking about how lucky you are to have her. Apparently she has quite the opinion of herself. 

For what it's worth to you, if you don't have kids, I don't think I'd stay. But you really haven't described too much about her. You probably need to give more information to get more accurate advice. Good luck to you and I'm sorry you are going through this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

drifting on said:


> By what you posted I'm trying to get an idea of her mindset. You dated for a year and during this time she was also dating someone else. After a year of dating TWO people she decided she loved you. Then she never confessed until you have been married for two years, but you've been together a total of five years. Well, I'm assuming the deception and lies you received during the first year are hard to accept. I'm also assuming that you have now noticed she has lied to year for a total of five years.
> 
> Questions for you. Do you want to divorce? Do you want to reconcile? Did she have sex with both of you during the first year? Can you accept that? Do you have trust for her? Do you think this relationship is over with the OM? Do you think your relationship is over? How is she acting, hurt, remorseful, sorry, regretful, humiliated, shameful? Can you ever trust her again after her double life?
> 
> ...


There are some very good valid points here.. 

Just for accuracy it was the first 8 months.. Again I am pretty sure that she fvcked this other guy after 8 months of dating.. 

But you're right about the whole I picked you statement.. It really does sound like she is doing you a favor by picking you.. I am sure she didn't mean it that way and it was words used in a panic state.. 

But she needs to answer some serious questions for you..


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Gottodeal2 said:


> I am having a really hard time coping with the fact that my wife was seeing someone else during the first year we were together.
> 
> We've been together for five years, married two, we have a great relationship and have worked through many tough things, but this news took me by surprised. I was on her email account (with her permission), to search for details from a friend and there was email from another person dating back to May 2010.
> 
> ...


Eight months is a LONG time. Are you sure you should deal with it?


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Make sure you don't get her pregnant right now. You take charge, don't trust her to be on birth control. If it were me, I'd withhold all sex for a few months at least until you figure out where you're at. She will likely try to throw all kinds of sex at you in order to put you in pvssy coma. Sex does brainwash you away from negative emotions, but in your situation it will end up facilitating a rug sweep where her actions and lies never get properly addressed.

False reconciliation happens frequently, where the betrayed believes the cheater now loves them and is loyal. But there are too many unanswered questions and unresolved suspicions. In the future it all comes rushing back to the surface and torpedoes the marriage.

Also, a cheater isn't likely to change their belief system unless their feet are really held to the fire. Rug sweeping means they don't learn the lessons, and thus they are quite likely to cheat again in the future. Your wife has some belief systems regarding relationships which are not compatible with yours, so you have to ensure she truly and deeply changes so it doesn't happen again.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

Thor said:


> Make sure you don't get her pregnant right now. You take charge, don't trust her to be on birth control. If it were me, I'd withhold all sex for a few months at least until you figure out where you're at. She will likely try to throw all kinds of sex at you in order to put you in pvssy coma. Sex does brainwash you away from negative emotions, but in your situation it will end up facilitating a rug sweep where her actions and lies never get properly addressed.
> 
> False reconciliation happens frequently, where the betrayed believes the cheater now loves them and is loyal. But there are too many unanswered questions and unresolved suspicions. In the future it all comes rushing back to the surface and torpedoes the marriage.
> 
> Also, a cheater isn't likely to change their belief system unless their feet are really held to the fire. Rug sweeping means they don't learn the lessons, and thus they are quite likely to cheat again in the future. Your wife has some belief systems regarding relationships which are not compatible with yours, so you have to ensure she truly and deeply changes so it doesn't happen again.


I am a prime example of this..


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

So what you weren't enaged and you weren't married so you weren't in a committed relationship. Let the past be the past and live in the present, as long as she isn't cheating on you now then don't worry about it.


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

Happilymarried25 said:


> So what you weren't enaged and you weren't married so you weren't in a committed relationship. Let the past be the past and live in the present, as long as she isn't cheating on you now then don't worry about it.


Just LOL.

Double x chromosomes dripping everywhere off that post


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> Cheaters seriously gross me out.


:iagree:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NotEZ (Sep 23, 2012)

The Cro-Magnon said:


> Just LOL.
> 
> Double x chromosomes dripping everywhere off that post


I agree with part of her post (not that you are ONLY commited if you are engaged or married... WTF??) . There is a difference between them discussing and mutually agreeing to be exclusive and him assuming they were because they were "dating". He never specified which it was. 

He didnt say "she cheated 8 months in". He said she was dating someone else the entire first 8 months. And that she ended the other relationship because she decided he was the one she wanted to be with. Unless there was something I missed in there, that is called dating. You date until you find the person that makes you no longer want to date anyone else. 

If she agreed and continued dating.. then yes. Big problem. But i still dont think it constitutes the label of "cheater" for the rest of her life.


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## dash74 (Jan 3, 2015)

I would jump ship, she has already shown she could deceive you long term with a smile

She can love two men at once= big time cake eater

She kept her romantic love emails= a trophy she was proud of

But you will rug sweep and after you have two kids (one will be yours remember she can love 2 men)you will be right back here with her cheating 

I bet with in a month she will start pressuring for a baby if she has not already just say no to the anchor baby and eject


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## Gottodeal2 (Jul 24, 2015)

Thanks guys for the feedback. 

To clarify a few things: one, she is a good person. I love her and posts about how she is duplicitous are inaccurate. Two, the email I discovered was fairly innocuous, I just asked who this guy was and then the story came out. 

According to her, she met us both around the same time, developed feelings for both of us and didn't know how it to end it with the other guy. She says she had never been in a situation like that before in her life, didn't know it was possible, handled it all wrong, regrets it, etc and she is quite upset right now. 

I guess my question is simple: Is this sort of thing normal taking eight months fall in love with someone? Couples taking longer to get serious? Most the people, I know have only really taken upwards of six months to get their **** together. I feel kinda of silly. Three, four, five months of uncertainty, I can understand, but eight months in ... I was in love with her and wanted to get serious. 

Is this taking a while to get serious uncommon? 

I'm not going to leave her. I just want to see if other can help me normalize this at all, as my mind is spinning over this whole ordeal.


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

Gottodeal2 said:


> Thanks guys for the feedback.
> 
> To clarify a few things: one, she is a good person. I love her and posts about how she is duplicitous are inaccurate. Two, the email I discovered was fairly innocuous, I just asked who this guy was and then the story came out.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you've already made up your mind. Good luck with that. See you on the other side.


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

NotEZ said:


> I agree with part of her post (not that you are ONLY commited if you are engaged or married... WTF??) . There is a difference between them discussing and mutually agreeing to be exclusive and him assuming they were because they were "dating". He never specified which it was.
> 
> He didnt say "she cheated 8 months in". He said she was dating someone else the entire first 8 months. And that she ended the other relationship because she decided he was the one she wanted to be with. Unless there was something I missed in there, that is called dating. You date until you find the person that makes you no longer want to date anyone else.
> 
> If she agreed and continued dating.. then yes. Big problem. But i still dont think it constitutes the label of "cheater" for the rest of her life.


8 months. Seriously. And not a word to him? What part of that is not living a lie? Whose to say the other guy didn't dump her, so she just settled on option B. If he was option A, she would've known alot sooner.

And further, unless she was a lobotomized vegetable, how could she not have known that he, at least, considered them exclusive. Srs. How? But she let him pour all of himself into her, while she was fcuking another guy the whole time, with not a word. Nice. 

What normal man is going to give all of himself and have a relationship with woman that doesn't think enough of him, or feel enough for him, to do the same, and instead kisses him on the cheek and says she is going to dinner with her mum when she is going to fcuk another man.

24/7 lying to manage the logistics of two relationships, deceit, manipulation, cheating. That's a funny kind of love right there. Not sure I'm too eager to partake of Love if that is what it is.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

OP, you will never ever be able to forget this. It will ALWAYS be right under the surface.

You've got a hard road ahead but my advice is save your sanity and get out now.

That's not a white lie or mild deception....


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

OP you are getting a lot of answers from people on a forum who have been cheated in their marriages. You are also going to get some from some people who are very damaged and have a clear disdain for women. 

Personally I would consider it cheating if you two had already gotten serious. How old were you both? What are her views on cheating? Do you both have very clear boundaries now? 

Can you possibly go to some counselling sessions together to talk this through so you can both move on with peace of mind?


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

*LittleDeer* said:


> OP you are getting a lot of answers from people on a forum who have been cheated in their marriages. You are also going to get some from some people who are very damaged and have a clear disdain for women.
> 
> Personally I would consider it cheating if you two had already gotten serious. How old were you both? What are her views on cheating? Do you both have very clear boundaries now?
> 
> Can you possibly go to some counselling sessions together to talk this through so you can both move on with peace of mind?


$20 says XX


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

Marriage on lies is BAD marriage,but you just said you will not leave her.

Good luck mate,and in year or maybe two you will find that guy in her pants or some other guy from work.

Sorry for you


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> Scads of women are dating other men when they start dating their future spouse. It was your job my man to make her want to give up these other cats for you. Did she give them up?


Op,
This is VERY common. Especially if the woman was actively dating, leaving a long term relationship, or very young. Women worry to a greater extent then men if they have found "the one" and often they fail to take themselves "off the market" out of fear they might miss someone. If your wife clarified her love for you during this time and has been faithful then it went as it should. It truly can be confusing to live in a woman's head when it comes to love, especially if they are say in their early 20's.

She became a woman with you because she wanted to, trust that and don't get hung up on this. I say mark it off to inexperience, youthfulness, and the confusion of feelings.
You (unknowingly) gave her the time she needed and she did not have the maturity to be open and honest at the time. She is now and that represents a watershed event of coming to age for her.
.
Be glad you got a good one and that the two of you are so good together, reassure her of that.

Take care


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> Scads of women are dating other men when they start dating their future spouse. It was your job my man to make her want to give up these other cats for you. Did she give them up?


Rubbish. 

This advice works under the presumption that she is the prize that men are competing for.

It was your job OP to assess what kind of a person she was and whether she had good potential as a long term partner based on what you saw and felt at that point in time. Not to be the best you so she could drop her other dates and choose you.

2/3 months - understandable that she would be hesitant to make a choice. 8 months? She was leading you and the other guy on at the same time.

My only question is - what if you had found out when you were dating that she was dating someone else at the same time, would you still consider her as a future partner? There was ample opportunity for her to speak up on this issue. She can't use the excuse of "the past" because you were in a relationship with her at that point.

She certainly does have questionable morals and you need to have a long talk about this. You also need to hold off on kids and anything major(financially) until such a time that a level of trust can be established again. While I wouldn't consider it betrayal - its still a cause for concern and what I'd consider as a breach of trust. 

What is she saying about it at this point? Ask her if she has anymore skeletons in the closet.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

What was the agreement at the time ? Did you both agree to be exclusive ? If yes, then she cheated (possibly on both of you) and is not a nice person! What also definitely makes her not a nice person is sleeping with two men at the same time without them knowing about each other or knowing she might be doing this. 

You maybe seeing the nice side of her now, but this is also an indicator of another side of her that could bite you in the butt further down the line! Especially if you don't address it now and rug sweep it. Make an issue of it now until, at the very least, she understands that she did something bad and immoral.

And finally not coming clean about it until now is the icing on the "not being a nice person" cake! Ask her why she didn't tell you before getting married. If she says it was none of your business (which is very clearly not true) then you have your answer and it is up to you what you do about it.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Gottodeal2 said:


> Thanks guys for the feedback.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Eight months is a pretty long damn time to multi-date the same couple of people (especially w/o transparency), and you need clear and detailed answers w/ respect to why it took her so long to end things w/ the other guy, along w/ how she chose to end things w/ him, what she told him, etc. And yes... even if it's painful for you to hear. Failure to get closure here will not bode well for your marriage going forward.

And hey... why did she still have the emails? And has she since deleted them? (If so, that's a bad sign.)


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## ReidWright (May 15, 2014)

Gottodeal2 said:


> I feel like a fool for not seeing that the distance, being emotionally unavailable, lack of "I love you" was not normal.


that's actually a good thing....imagine if she had been proclaiming how much she loves you in months 2 to 8, AND still banging this other guy! I'm not sure what the rules are now about when 'being exclusive' kicks in. 2 months? 6?

It's a lesson learned for any dating couple...establish your expectations and communicate them directly.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

If you didn't have an exclusive relationship it was none of your business if she was dating another guy or twenty.

I can't imagine her having time to date two people, the attitude you say she had and you would assume you were the only one.

Everyone knows what ass u me means.

If a guy was dating more than one woman you might be getting some different answers. Unless two people commit to each other, they are not a couple, they are just dating and sex has nothing to do with it.

You said she quit dating the other guy because she fell in love with you and everything changed for the better. That's the way its supposed to work. Does she ever have doubts she made the right choice, probably, everyone wonders what if.

Good luck and be happy you won the lottery.

Read some stories in this section and see what real misery is.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

BjornFree said:


> Rubbish.
> 
> This advice works under the presumption that she is the prize that men are competing for.
> 
> .


Whether you know it or not, that's exactly the way it works. Women are under no obligation when not engaged and not married to date only the guy who took them out the last two times because he wants it exclusive. If you can't handle the competition, sit on the bench.
GTD purports him and his wife are crazy about each other, married 5 years and some of ya'll are telling him to ditch her. You may need to be reminded she only dated this other cat for the first year and in my perspective, until she was sure about GTD. He's in a different position than most of you guys, long married and had some cat slipping in the back door just after you went out the front door.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Gottodeal2 said:


> I am having a really hard time coping with the fact that my wife was seeing someone else during the first year we were together.
> 
> We've been together for five years, married two, we have a great relationship and have worked through many tough things, but this news took me by surprised. I was on her email account (with her permission), to search for details from a friend and there was email from another person dating back to May 2010.
> 
> ...



You put this question in the wrong subsection if you are serious about wanting help to put this into perspective. 

1. Your wife was not cheating. You weren't married and you had no understanding of exclusivity. You both were free to see other people at the time.

2. Of course she didn't explain that she was also seeing another man while she was seeing you. You said yourselves that she was confused having feelings for you both and didn't know how to handle it. 

Common? I don't think so. But I also don't think it is too far out of the ordinary.

I think the reason why it took so long for her to recognize that she was in love with you was because she was also seeing someone else during the first part of your relationship. She took her time and when she did realize she loved you she ditched the other guy.

Retroactive jealousy can snowball and make your life miserable. The past has passed and that's where it stays.


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## Row Jimmy (Apr 15, 2013)

I would presume a women is dating others when first entering the casual dating stage, especially in the age of on line dating. The casual dating stage goes on until some kind of commitment is made and I'm not taking about assuming there is a commitment. You have to discuss that. 

The balance point changes and it becomes cheating if she agreed to be exclusive and then wasn't. If you didn't have that agreement then it's not cheating, it's shopping around and test driving different penises to decide which one you want to go forward exclusively with assuming marriage is your goal. 

She did however take an unusually long time to make up her mind and if I was dating and mating with two guys at the same time I would feel obligated to be honest about that part because if one person was serious and the other was just "dating" then it would cause hurt feelings and mistrust.

Open communication and clear expectations are important in all stages of a relationship. 

The fact that she wasn't honest makes her a player to a degree and makes her integrity at the time questionable but if she is committed now and apologized for making a poor decision way back then well then I wouldn't worry about it now and start snooping her electronics and planting a GPS in her car.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

Gottodeal2, were you dating another girl(s) also during this 8 months?

you obviously thought you were in an exclusive relationship but she did not or she thought you should be exclusive but not her. If this is the case then she cheated.

you might ask her "what if you were also dating others at the time".


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

She feels bad now, but didn't before. That means she feels bad that she got caught. 

Why the hell would she save his emails? Is she still communicating with him now? 

Was this deceptive, yes. Deal breaker only you can decide. 

Try some counseling work through it in a healthy manner do not rug sweep if it is bothering you enough to post here. And do not whine or cry to her ever.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Gottodeal2

Did she keep dating OM a secret from you? Or while dating the first eight months, did she tell you she was seeing someone else? Were you dating someone else the first right months? I'm thinking she didn't tell you, and you were not dating someone else. But now you notice she was distant, she was scarce with her I love you's, and not emotionally connected with you. So you can see that now, and now you say she feels bad.

You inadvertently gave away more information then you intended to on your second post. Information that shows your gut to be correct and her showing her true colors. People here are telling you you may be cheated on in the future. Is it because they are jaded? Because they are in pain? Or do they see what so many of us have gone through? 

Here is the problem that many of us see. She met you both at the same time and developed feelings for you both. This probably did happen, and that is not wrong. So for the next three months she dated the both of you. She was distant with you, scarce with I love you to you, was she the same to OM? How much time was spent with you, how much with him? After three months did you have an idea of where your relationship was going? If you were not looking to date someone else after three months, I'd tend to believe you were happy with how everything were progressing. Now ask yourself this, did she?

Then you say she didn't know how to end the relationship with the OM. How old were the both of you? Did you know how to end a relationship? I'm guessing here that you were both adults in your early to mid twenties. Believing her that she didn't know how to end a relationship is bull. How far into the eight months was this? How long did it take to end seeing the OM?

Now of course she is going to tell you she never thought this could happen. Because eight months was far to long to know so she has to tell you something. The truth would have better though. But she handled it wrong AND regrets that this happened. So, now you see, this makes it all better now don't you think? Really the truth is she dated you both, kept it a secret, and now you think eight months was too long. I agree, eight months was too long. 

She is very upset right now according to you. Rightfully so in my opinion, because she got caught. Now she's upset that you know, now she knows you know the real her. If only she had deleted that email instead of keeping it as a reminder of how good she felt dating two men. Now she's upset because you know and worst, you know she is capable of keeping TWO men happy. But remember, she chose you the lucky one to spend the rest of her life with. Of course that is assuming that OM didn't dump her and you were all that was left. 

OP you have some soul searching to do on yourself, and your marriage. This isn't going to just go away, you aren't going to forget about the OM for a long time. You need to sit down and educate yourself on infidelity. Much like I had to, because the seed is planted and it gets worse from here. Stop talking to her about this and learn the cheaters script. Then talk to her and see just how much she will follow it word for word. Learn the cheaters script so you can steer her away from it. So you can get the truth and be a step ahead of her like she was with you. 

Good luck OP.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Too little info to offer meaningful advice. 

OP, what was the understanding between the 2 of you? Did you two date casually for 8 months or did the both of you discuss early in the relationship that it was to be exclusive? So far, I've seen assumptions on both sides. So what were the terms that you two were working with during the first year of the relationship? Here are some thoughts.


If the two of you dated and zero communication about exclusivity came up during that time, she did no wrong.
If you ASSUMED that the two of you were exclusive, and you two never discussed it, then she did no wrong.
If you two both discussed it early on that you two were supposed to be exclusive, and she dated this other guy at the same time anyways then she is in the wrong.

One of these 3 is the correct. If the last one is correct, then this is a clear cut case of cheating on you for at least 4 months - assuming that the first few months were still in the early phase of pure dating and no BF/GF commitment was made. Then that opens up all sorts of other questions like was she intimate with both of you on the same day, was she evil enough to swallow him and later that day/night give you a big passionate kiss, etc. etc. IF this is a true cheating situation, then you have every right to figure out what her intentions were and how much respect she had for you then. Because if she was quite capable of cheating back then when times were simpler, there is no guarantee that she is a "change person" today after marriage when life will undoubtedly become a lot more complicated.

If there was no understanding of exclusivity during this time period or if you assumed there was but you two never talked about it...then you cannot beat your wife up over it. But if you two agreed to it and then she went on to cheat on you for several months... The situation becomes quite different.


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

Geez,

Let's get this straight . A woman chooses you over all other suitors and you are worried because she dated another guy in the early stages of your relationship. GROW UP! As was said previously, you didn't have an exclusive relationship at the time, although you wish you did. This means nothing except that you are a bit of a jealous character who probably needs to work a bit on himself.

And this is coming from a guy who was REALLY cheated on.

Don't F-up your marriage with petty jealousy,


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

It used to be the a sexual relationship implied exclusivity .. that's certainly not the case anymore. Certainly exclusivity was implied after a few months. Your DW withheld information from you. While she was making her decision, she did not trust you with the truth of her non-exclusivity. This speaks to character.
.
Character is a weird thing ... many people go through their entire lives without a serious test of their character. All of us, everyone, get married to meet the needs that cannot be met alone. Rearing children, enjoying a partner, dividing living expenses, being vulnerable ... all good things in a relationship potentially. 
.
There is a simple way to look at betrayal: 
.
(Unmet needs) > (personal integrity + partner trust)
.
Low unmet needs or high personal integrity and partner trust ...you will never test your DW's character and you don't have to worry about betrayal. Personal integrity speaks to the boundaries that you actively enforce that honor the commitment to your partner. Partner trust is how much you value the trust your partner has extended you.
.
There is a trump card here: Your partner must be vulnerable enough in the relationship to communicate their unmet needs. Your partner withheld information about non-exclusivity because it was more vulnerability than she could handle. Maybe it's no longer a problem as she has grown as a person. I think you have to talk to her about it, repair any damage and live happily ever after. Kindest Regards-


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

ThePheonix said:


> Whether you know it or not, that's exactly the way it works. Women *and MEN *are under no obligation when not engaged and not married to date only the guy who took them out the last two times because he wants it exclusive. If you can't handle the competition, sit on the bench.
> GTD purports him and his wife are crazy about each other, married 5 years and some of ya'll are telling him to ditch her. You may need to be reminded she only dated this other cat for the first year and in my perspective, until she was sure about GTD. He's in a different position than most of you guys, long married and had some cat slipping in the back door just after you went out the front door.


Here fixed that for you.. 

Look dating is a game just like any other.. You need to know the rules of the game.. Each dating game is different and you need to know the rules for that particular dating game.. 

Its apparent that there was some implied exclusivity.. How clear it was is up to the OP and how much he wants to pretend they weren't exclusive to justify this and stay married.. And I have no issue admitting I rug swept things with my Ex wife and my ExGF for the sake of the relationship.. The simple thought is *"this person is an a$$hole, but what am I gonna do? End it because they are just so stupid ?.. No they learned their lesson and lets move on from this."*.. That is how I justify it..

Look the ExGF told me straight out... If a guy never told her he wanted to be exclusive she never agreed to it and dated other people. But if a guy asked her to be exclusive *AND NEVER* agreed to it she she followed the same rule.. She basically followed the rule of don't ask don't tell.. But again after hearing her stories it seemed that they guys thought they were exclusive after dating 6 or 8 months and got pretty broken up because they found out differently and sometimes in public places.. 

I had to ask her slowly and clearly what exactly were we ? I actually told her I wanted to hear we were exclusive come out of her mouth, and I wish I was fvcking kidding..

I made it very clear on the first date about the rules of game and I actually called it that as well..


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Gottodeal2 said:


> Thanks guys for the feedback.
> 
> To clarify a few things: one, she is a good person. I love her and posts about how she is duplicitous are inaccurate. Two, the email I discovered was fairly innocuous, I just asked who this guy was and then the story came out.
> 
> ...


Listen dude. It probably happens enough that it is not uncommon but I would hardly call her behavior normal.

No matter how your words portray her, her actions speak much louder.

What she did was play two men and cheat on both of you.

She is a cheater no matter what you try and say because she will be defined by her actions, not your words.

Now if she is a remorseful cheater she could be considered a former wayward.

Since you are planning on staying, treat this like any affair and work on reconciliation. Get some affair recovery books and read through them with her. Make her do what is called "heavy lifting" to repair the damage caused by her infidelity and start healing.

What you are feeling is normal for a betrayed spouse.

She needs to do some serious work to help heal the damage she caused.
This path will help you two past this and will even improve your marriage if you both work hard. 

She obviously has much improving to do in the communication and character department.

Best wishes.

P.S. Is the other man she cheated on/with still around your area? Do you know him or have you met him?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

Like many have said.. Exclusivity is the really BIG question here.. 

Even the OP says he realized some sort of problem during those 8 months.. 

But to me the obvious fact is he thought they WERE exclusive.. Otherwise he would not have WONDERED what the problem was those 8 months.. 

No one wants to face that someone they love so dearly could lie to them. Myself included.. 

But the OP 2nd post pretty much reflex's I don't care that they dated but that it took her 8 months to see if she loved me.. Is that normal to take 8 months to determine if you love someone is the new question now.. 

OP here is the simple reality, each day she would compare the both of you.. A does this, but B does this.. But A is a good caring lover, But B last longer and is more wild.. ETC.. ETC.. ETC.. 

I would think 8 months is normal when you are both monogamous to each other and NOT doing any comparing *( except maybe to older relationships )*.

The simple question is this..

If you knew she was dating someone else and you knew she was trying to figure out who she loved more.. 

Would you have still stuck around ? 

The old HTH would have.. 

But Bjornfree rung true with this simple statement which holds true across the sexes..



> Rubbish.
> 
> This advice works under the presumption that she is the prize that men are competing for.


Were you competing ? Yea, you just didn't know about it.. 

But now that you know were are YOU okay with it?

If so and your only problem is the love question.. Then yes.. its normal to take 8 months when your dating.. Matter of fact I would be scared if someone told me they loved me after a few months.. 

But then I'm the retard that got married after 3 months of dating someone when I was 25.. She even proposed with a ring on a live radio station.. 

And yea.. I'm that fvcking good..


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

OP: Your wife is a coward plain and simple. She's afraid to be alone. She's like Tarzan swinging through the trees, who doesn't let go of the first vine until he has the second one firmly in his grasp. 

One of two things played out:

1) Rather than take a chance on you, she refused to dump her ex until she was 100% sure things were going to work out. She kept him around as plan B; OR 

2) Things were on the rocks with ex so she started dating you as plan B in case the relationship fell apart. It didn't work out and you got to be second prize.

People like her will ALWAYS have a plan B. My ex did the same thing when we started dating. She turned out to be a serial cheat. Watch your back bud. Do a little recon, you might be surprised what else you turn up.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

For me, the core question is did she agree that you were exclusive? Or, did she avoid that in order to keep her options open? And, did she know that you considered your relationship as serious and exclusive?

At best, she was almost certainly manipulating the situation to keep her options open until one of you was the clear choice. Maintaining options is fine, but deceiving you while doing so is not. It would be understandable for the first month or maybe two, but not beyond that if there was any mention of exclusivity.

Anyway, the issue is now past. Unless you have any reason to think she isn't completely sincere in her love for you now and completely committed to you and the marriage, then accept that she made a mistake and move past it. If you don't believe that, then you either need MC or a divorce lawyer.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
I agree that there is scant information to give substantive advice. Therefore, I can only suggest hat you use the last 4years and 4 months in general and the last two years in particular to judge your wife's level of commitment to you and the marriage. By your own admission things were moving slowly, perhaps due to her indecision or perhaps you both felt as though you were not quite ready.

In any event, would her ditching the other guy after 2 months and then living with the uncertainty of knowing if he was " mr. Right" have been better than what transpired? I would have rather her known for sure than to decide to see if he was mr right after we were married. For what it is worth, I feel as though she could have been more open about it but perhaps she feared losing you and she did not want to risk that. And if she has given you no cause for suspicion and been the model wife since then, I would chalk it up to her being sure it was " till death do us part" and have a great marriage. Don't let this become a wedge. Good fortune to you both.


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## Daniel. (Jan 14, 2015)

It's common perception that when 2 people are dating they'd be exclusive unless they agreed not to be one. Seeing other person while the other is serious is just a shaddy thing to do, personally if i were in that situation but i'm not really into her i'd at least inform her. Just to make it fair for her so she could set her expectation in the right level. 
The fact that op's wife hid it so well is what concerns me


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

Woman here and married for 35 years (first marriage for the both of us). I am 57 years old. I met my husband in college where there were many people in our age group, early 20s. Friendships and dating many times intertwined and no commitments given. This can be a confusing time for many; trying to figure out their lifetime career path and selecting their intended lifelong partners.

There are many posters here in TAM who are in their subsequent marriages. Will they hash up their wives' lives with their ex's? That would destroy what they have now.

I suggest you see a psychologist to assist you in setting your mind in the right direction. Jealousy can be a marriage killer. You said that she is a wonderful wife and that you won't leave her. You've decided already.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

LOL. Roselyn.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## imperfectworld (Jan 18, 2015)

OP, I have no advice because IMHO there are so many things to consider you'd have to write a book for us to factor them all. But I am here to say it sucks for you! I recently found that my wife was writing letters to an ex boyfriend while we were engaged, and it ticked me off. When I see photos of us during that time I gives me a new and unfortunately bitter perspective. I was clueless.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Gottodeal2 said:


> Thanks guys for the feedback.
> 
> To clarify a few things: one, she is a good person. I love her and posts about how she is duplicitous are inaccurate. Two, the email I discovered was fairly innocuous, I just asked who this guy was and then the story came out.
> 
> ...


You did not answer an important question that has been asked.
Was she sexually involved with either or both of you during that time?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> Scads of women are dating other men when they start dating their future spouse. It was your job my man to make her want to give up these other cats for you. Did she give them up?


There is dating... and then there is exclusive dating and engagement. If she was banging this other cat during their engagement then that is equivalent to adultery in my book.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Failing to mention to your dating partner of 4,5, 6, 7, 8 months that you are also having sex with another person is a serious breach of integrity. I see it as a mere technicality whether there was a specific discussion where both state explicitly "I am exclusive with you".

Multiple concurrent sex partners puts all of them at risk for STDs. All of them are at risk for emotional turmoil. OP was apparently saying ILY to her with some regularity during this time period, yet she never said "Slow down cowboy, this isn't that serious for me".

I see this as her intentionally misleading him during that time period. After a few dates, a relationship is no longer merely casual. Certainly once there is regular sex it is not casual. Once there are ILYs it is clearly not casual. But, she let him keep on thinking it was some kind of a serious love relationship while she was out playing the field.

Yup, this was intentional deception on her part. It does speak to her character and to her ground rules within relationships. This isn't just something that happened in the past, it is who she is and how she is. Absent a real change on her part, I would never be able to trust her going forward.


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2014)

I love the whole "its not cheating, we weren't exclusive" argument. You notice it is always used when the other partner had no idea. Apparently you need a "Relationship Exclusively Agreement" drawn up by an attorney now. Don't let other people fog you here OP. What she did was screwed up. And no, this has nothing to do with gender bias, if the roles were reversed I would say the same thing.

What you have to watch for is signs that she *settled* for you for reasons other than white hot passion. The clearest indicator to me that a woman settled is a mundane sex life. That will piss off some people here, but it is what it is.

Finding this out about your wife shouldn't necessary make you decide to walk, but it has change your perspective of her, which is a shame. Its also a crack, however small, in the foundation of your marriage.

You should never get married without a pre-nup these days, but if you did now is the time to consider a post-nup. Definitely delay children for a while to make sure this is something that you can get over.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

She was enjoying the attention of two men. Simple as that. I wonder if she was stringing both of them along and the other guy found out and ditched her? Then the OP was her fallback. 

She was probably seeing how long she could play both of them and keep it going. 

I dunno, maybe she did have feelings for both of them and was in a quandary, but that doesn't excuse her. I say polygraph time.


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## Hoosier (May 17, 2011)

What was your agreement? exclusive? 

If she were dating you both, with no agreement to exclusiveness, I think she is in the clear. My biggest concern would be why she still has his email and email address. 

I will tell you this, just last night I found a stack of letters written to me during my college years (I am 55) from my then gf, now xwife. In one of the letters (I read a couple of them) she was telling me how she had had a conversation with the UPS driver that delivered to her fathers farm. In the letter she was quick to point out that they were just friends, but she had questioned him about his dating a friend of hers (found out he was married) etc. Years ago when I originally received this letter, I really thought nothing of it, as I trusted her completely. Now 35 years later, after finding out she had more than one affair, finally moving in with the last one, during our 30 year marriage. I really wonder what went on. 
Eight months is a LONG time, I guess I would worry that it took her so long to decide. At the very least you both need to go to MC to reattach.


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## old red (Jul 26, 2014)

if she was upfront and didn't hide the fact that she was also dating someone else, then that's fine, as you knew what you were getting into when starting your relationship with her. however, if she hid this information from you or lied about it, then, yes, she cheated on you. it really isn't that hard to understand, and those who are stating that she had no obligation to be honest with you are full of !#$%.

i am very sorry for the obvious pain that you are in. i believe that this this would be a deal breaker for me.


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## Gottodeal2 (Jul 24, 2015)

CynthiaDe said:


> You did not answer an important question that has been asked.
> Was she sexually involved with either or both of you during that time?


Yes. This and the fact she didn't tell me before we got married, really bothers me. But based on the fact, that I did do a lot of "assuming," we weren't engaged or married, and the fact that she's stood by and supported me during the most trying time of my life, I can't throw away my marriage. As I stated, she is a good person and the last person anyone would expect. 

She was very emotionally unavailable for quite some time and we would often only see each other for three, four times max during the first months. Once she opened up, our relationship moved forward in an amazing way. I thought she was distanced for other reasons, but turns out, another guy was also a big reason. How she found time to date both of us, I don't know. 

I've never been in a position where something has gone on for eight months. I know friends who've had flings with another person during the first four months of a relationship, then realized that they wanted to with that person, but never an eight month long courtship. 

We no longer live in the same city as the other guy and I've read through the facebook messages, her story checks out.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Gottodeal2 said:


> Yes. This and the fact she didn't tell me before we got married, really bothers me. But based on the fact, that I did do a lot of "assuming," we weren't engaged or married, and the fact that she's stood by and supported me during the most trying time of my life, I can't throw away my marriage. As I stated, she is a good person and the last person anyone would expect.
> 
> She was very emotionally unavailable for quite some time and we would often only see each other for three, four times max during the first months. Once she opened up, our relationship moved forward in an amazing way. I thought she was distanced for other reasons, but turns out, another guy was also a big reason. How she found time to date both of us, I don't know.



But you still have not answered the question. At any time during this period did you and her sit down and formally and verbally agree that you two were exclusive and eschewing all others? 

Because if you and her never had that convo, then technically the two of you were not exclusive. Then the issue becomes muddy. Sounds to me like you were really pursuing her hard and she was only giving you scraps from her table during those months she was "distant". She must have been getting a huge ego boost having both men pursuing her like that.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

It is normal for you to be upset and/or angry about this. If she is upset over you being upset, that isn't your fault. Keep that in mind. You don't want this turned about on you as if you are the one causing the problem. You are responding to some shocking and hurtful news and the fact that your wife is not the person you thought she was.
As you are dealing with this, do not be afraid of losing your wife. That will hinder you from dealing with it fully. The only way to save this and move forward in a healthy manner is to be willing to work through it, even if it leads to divorce. Anything less is rug sweeping and will not result in a healthy resolution. Unresolved issues will haunt you and hinder you both from having a healthy marriage.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Bottom line is this Gottodeal2:

Get some individual counseling to help you cope with news of this betrayal. You refuse to accept any other advice.

You won't divorce her. You're upset. For her, this is OLD news so she really doesn't care other than seeing you upset.

You think the relationship is fine so I don't know how else we can help. You say she's not cheating now. You want validation? 

OK, we all agree she did a pretty sh!tty thing to you. She built your relationship on a foundation of lies.

Now seek professional help forgiving her and getting over it. You won't show her consequences so what's left to do?


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

I don't put much stock into the "we are exclusive argument". I would think after three months of continuous dating the relationship would progress to be exclusive without having to have a "formal" talk. Certainly after six months it would be a given in my book that we are exclusive. But after eight months, she knew. His second post said it all. She got caught up, didn't know how to handle it, AND REGRETS, which in my mind she knew they were exclusive. 

Now he can't discard this and he is being told he is jealous. Give me a break. She cheated, he's staying, go to MC.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> You put this question in the wrong subsection if you are serious about wanting help to put this into perspective.
> 
> 1. Your wife was not cheating. You weren't married and you had no understanding of exclusivity. You both were free to see other people at the time.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

This and a few others show the sort of reasonable response you need. I'd agree that 8 months is a long time but if she wasn't telling you the "I love you and only you" then she probably was confused but she wasn't leading you on unnecessarily.

It was at the start, not in the middle of your relationship and if she took a long time and decided that it was you she loves then be happy. It was a considered decision and that means that when she said "I do" she meant it for the long term.

You need to let her know how you feel, but you also need to understand that there is absolutely nothing she can do to change the past. If she's apologized then you have to move on as she can't do anything more.

You don't need to withhold sex as punishment or "man up" to any of the other revenge suggestions above as that will result in you destroying your own future as you will cease to be the man that she chose and chose to marry.


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## dash74 (Jan 3, 2015)

I have been married almost 20 years, if my wife dated someone besides me for 8 months with no communication about it and I found out eary on in the marriage and had no kids I would devorce her most likely

Why

Trust if you cant trust the one person that should have your back it can drive you nuts

Two months or 3 months I can some what understand any longer and issues of health come about stds are real op in that 8 months with her did you raw dog her with her approval

Plan B I will never allow myself to be anyones plan B she was starting to distance herself from you 2+2= plan B

Her ability to "Love two men at once" marriage can be a circus with ups and downs but by god it is supposed to be a 2 ring circus not a 3






If she can understand why it was wrong and how she put your health mentaly and physical in jeperdy with help and be remorseful, if not put on your lpcs and walk

For me it maybe a bridge to far but thats me


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## Icey181 (Apr 16, 2015)

WonkyNinja said:


> :iagree:
> 
> This and a few others show the sort of reasonable response you need. I'd agree that 8 months is a long time but if she wasn't telling you the "I love you and only you" then she probably was confused but she wasn't leading you on unnecessarily.


Totally.

Women get to have sex with multiple men during long-term relationships, so long as they were "confused" about their feelings and no one signed an Exclusivity Agreement.



Your wife was "confused" because she enjoyed the attention and the options of two men at once.

If there was no issue with dating and sleeping with multiple people at the same time _she would not have hidden the other relationship_.

The moment someone hides something is the moment they know it is _wrong_.

Personally, finding out that my wife was maintaining a secret sexual relationship with another man for _months_ while we were dating would likely come close to ending my marriage.

All of the people who are telling you to forget and forgive are doing their best to protect _her_ and her right to have sex with multiple people.

BS.

It is a problem of trust and a breach of the bonds of a serious relationship.

I would find the deception and the _act_ problematic, demand some explanation as well as some form of recompense (likely some no-secrets give me all your passwords for the next 8-months kind), and would recommend you hit Marriage Counseling to deal with your feelings.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

drifting on said:


> I don't put much stock into the "we are exclusive argument". I would think after three months of continuous dating the relationship would progress to be exclusive without having to have a "formal" talk. Certainly after six months it would be a given in my book that we are exclusive. But after eight months, she knew. His second post said it all. She got caught up, didn't know how to handle it, AND REGRETS, which in my mind she knew they were exclusive.
> 
> Now he can't discard this and he is being told he is jealous. Give me a break. She cheated, he's staying, go to MC.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Wellll....I agree with you in theory. But when the rubber hits the road the defense she will come back with is "Well, we never said we could only see each other," or "I never said you couldn't date other women at that time," or "its not like we were really going steady at the time..."

In the end, assumptions don't mean d!ck. There was either an expressed agreement of exclusivity or there wasn't. If he never had that conversation with her then, I'm sorry, she's got the upper hand here. 

You cannot take ANYTHING for granted when you are engaging in a serious relationship these days. Everyone is greedy, and everyone is looking of an easy out if they have to bail, or if a relationship isn't meeting their needs. 

It is really fvcking sad that people cannot act with integrity. It is sad when you literally almost have to have a contract in place as to how you are going to proceed with dating someone exclusively. It's a bunch of bullshyt. Why can't people just be honest from the get go?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

While it would have been better if she had come out and told you that she was also seeing someone else who she liked as much as she liked you, I suspect she avoided that confrontation as long as she could because SHE wanted to make the choice on her own organically, naturally and without pressure.

And you gave her that. You gave her the time to reach her decision on her own without any sort of pressure to make a choice. That's why she decided the way she did.

You're nuts if you're willing to blow up a perfectly good marriage just because there are butt hurt people here. I'd also like to point out that one person in this thread cheated on her husband just before she left him. But since she was planning on leaving him she doesn't see it as cheating. And she hates cheaters.

So you see, everyone has their own perspective on what is and is not cheating. At least in your witch, you had no exclusive agreement, unlike a marriage.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> Wellll....I agree with you in theory. But when the rubber hits the road the defense she will come back with is "Well, we never said we could only see each other," or "I never said you couldn't date other women at that time," or "its not like we were really going steady at the time..."
> 
> In the end, assumptions don't mean d!ck. There was either an expressed agreement of exclusivity or there wasn't.


_Technically_ your point is correct. However I stand on my previous assertion she was intentionally deceptive. She knew how he felt, and she knew he would not be happy if he had found out she was also schtupping the other man.

I think it speaks strongly to her integrity and her ground rules within a relationship. I would not accept the defense from her that _technically_ we didn't have a formalized agreement to be exclusive. Bulldinkies, she was being intentionally deceptive.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

She loved him and you and it turned out that she loved you more and you were the better man. 

Sorry. What's your problem, here?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

OP. Would she be willing to go to counseling with you?

I don't think this is to bad to overcome with some work from you both.

She was obviously manipulating you both during the first 8 months to see who she liked better.

Pretty selfish but she may have grown out of it.

Did she stop to consider increasing your risk of contracting an STD?

How about if a slip had occurred and she became pregnant?

How would she have played that?

Anyone having sex with multiple partners owes it to everyone they are with to be honest so their partners can accept that risk if they want to. Not to mention that many don't share when it comes to sex.

Her play time with you both was ultimately self serving and contemptuous of both your physical and emotional health.

At the time, she was the center of her world and her desires were her priority with no consideration for either of you.

It sounds like she has changed, you both love each other and she just needs to face her bad choices from the start of your relationship and help you work through your emotions about it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> Wellll....I agree with you in theory. But when the rubber hits the road the defense she will come back with is "Well, we never said we could only see each other," or "I never said you couldn't date other women at that time," or "its not like we were really going steady at the time..."
> 
> In the end, assumptions don't mean d!ck. There was either an expressed agreement of exclusivity or there wasn't. If he never had that conversation with her then, I'm sorry, she's got the upper hand here.
> 
> ...




I can agree with this to a certain degree, and I fully understand what you are saying, but my beliefs come into play here. If I am dating someone, that is the only person I date, I am no longer in line at the market. Since everyone doesn't have my beliefs, which is good for many other reasons, but after three months of continuous dating I think you are either dating others to cheat or plain wasting your time. After eight months of dating two men, no, I'm sorry, you have no argument, it's cheating.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Justinian (Mar 7, 2015)

Gottodeal2 said:


> ... I love this woman so much. She's kind, caring, thoughtful and has been incredibly supportive during some of my personal struggles. I need help putting this into perspective.


Yes! Put it the proper perspective, and do not let it ruin the good thing you've got. Be thankful that you're the one that got the great woman.

I had the same thing happen to me when I met my wife. For me, it was love at first sight, not so for her. To her credit, she was honest about not being in love with me, and would not have sex with me until/unless that happened. However, she really enjoyed my company and wanted to continue dating. That went on for nearly a YEAR! I was hopelessly in love, and certain that I could win her over eventually.

It was only after we were married that I found out that she was in a long term relationship with another guy when we met. She was sure he was the one she would spend her life with. She was in love with him, and would only have sex with him. At the time he was not ready to commit completely, and even encouraged her to date other guys (not a good idea as it happens :smile2. After a year of dating on and off, she changed her mind, decided I was the one, and dumped him. That's when things really got good! Two years later we were married.

I rarely even think about what when on back then (40 years ago). I'm just thankful that I came into her life when I did, and that I'm the one who got the girl.

Gottodeal2, don't let jealously mess up a good life!


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> While it would have been better if she had come out and told you that she was also seeing someone else who she liked as much as she liked you, I suspect she avoided that confrontation as long as she could because SHE wanted to make the choice on her own organically, naturally and without pressure.
> 
> And you gave her that. You gave her the time to reach her decision on her own without any sort of pressure to make a choice. That's why she decided the way she did.
> 
> ...




He didn't KNOWINGLY give her that, she DECEPTIVELY gave him that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> She loved him and you and it turned out that she loved you more and you were the better man.
> 
> Sorry. What's your problem, here?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Or she was dumped by him and she went with plan B.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> There is dating... and then there is exclusive dating and engagement. If she was banging this other cat during their engagement then that is equivalent to adultery in my book.


I agree with you. But taking what he said in his first post at face value does not seem to equate to exclusive dating. Hence,



Gottodeal2 said:


> She was very distance during the early parts of our relationship, but once she opened up, our love blossomed and I couldn't imagine my life with anyone else.


I don't know what "early parts of our relationship" means but it seems that she dropped the other guy in favor of GTD after several months. Its hard for me to believe that dating a woman who is very distant during the early relationship could be legitimately considered an exclusive dating relationship. Its a little perplexing how she could be actively dating two guys for several months without one or both knowing it.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

drifting on said:


> Or she was dumped by him and she went with plan B.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Which is entirely possible. Gottodeal2, it will help you to get more information on the relationship she had with the other man and exactly how it ended with him. What happened? How did you "get the girl?"


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

OP, what I'm saying is to go to MC, straighten this out now. If you let this go it will eat you alive. Find out how the other relationship ended. Find out why she chose you as she says. But be leery, open both of your eyes. Find out why she kept the email. Discuss this through fully and rationally with a therapist. She was emotionally available to him but not you, why? That makes it appear that she loved him more but married you. Something you need to digest before you lose everything. 

Also the fact she didn't tell you is because she probably would have lost you. Kind of reminds you of a cheater don't you think? That's why I recommend MC and with therapy work it through. Best of luck to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

drifting on said:


> Or she was dumped by him and she went with plan B.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hell, a lot of us are plan B to Brad Pitt. Maybe old GTD turned out to be the better man and she ditched the other guy. That would be my guess.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Anon Pink said:


> While it would have been better if she had come out and told you that she was also seeing someone else who she liked as much as she liked you, I suspect she avoided that confrontation as long as she could because SHE wanted to make the choice on her own organically, naturally and without pressure.
> 
> And you gave her that. You gave her the time to reach her decision on her own without any sort of pressure to make a choice. That's why she decided the way she did.
> 
> ...


Yes... and no.

Yes, if they didn't have the 'exclusive' talk like grown ups, you can't assume exclusivity. It's just something you gotta do.

No, because she knew he thought she was exclusive or she would have told him like a grown up. So she knew going into it that he was marrying her based on a false premise, which grown ups know don't work out well. She also knew it was wrong, or she also would have fessed up and wouldn't have responded the way she did.

2/3 on her and 1/3 on him by my reckoning.

What I'd do...

MC for a long, long time and insist on transparency. Assuming reality is what appears to be, both in IC to deal with the fallout of that as productively as possible.

But you can't blow up something that never really was that thing.


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## Katiemelanie (Apr 20, 2015)

This all happened two years ago? Before you were married?


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

ThePheonix said:


> Hell, a lot of us are plan B to Brad Pitt.



I was plan C, but Patrick Swayze died, NOW I'm plan B second only to to some goof named Clooney!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Icey181 (Apr 16, 2015)

Anon Pink said:


> While it would have been better if she had come out and told you that she was also seeing someone else who she liked as much as she liked you, I suspect she avoided that confrontation as long as she could because SHE wanted to make the choice on her own organically, naturally and without pressure.
> 
> And you gave her that. You gave her the time to reach her decision on her own without any sort of pressure to make a choice. That's why she decided the way she did.
> 
> ...


Good god, are you kidding me Pink?

I was not aware that you thought that, outside of marriage, it is ok for LTR partners to fvck other people and keep it a secret for _months_.

It comes down to this:

Some of you want to protect _her_.

She lied.
She had sex with another man during a LTR.
She did this for *8-months*.
She proceeded to hide this fact for *years*.

Op, yes, you should totally be wary of taking advice from injured people who were cheated on.

Also be wary of taking advice from people willing to forgive all transgressions simply because it was a _woman_ who did this.

*Any* significant other who has sex with another person during a months-long LTR and then hides that fact for years afterwards *is deceitful and untrustworthy*.

Your goal should be to deal with your emotions and rebuild any lost trust.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

For the record, AP is pretty hard on women too.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
You and she started off very slowly by your own admission only seeing each other 3-4 times a month for the first few months. Perhaps she saw more potential in the OM but as she became more involved with you her feelings changed and she began to see you as the more favorable choice. By then she was already entangled with the OM and unsure how to "cut him loose" but as she grew closer to you she moved farther from him. If she is a great wife now, let it go.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

You all are reading a whole lot of history into this when there are no such facts presented.

Can't call it a LTR if they weren't exclusive.
Can't call it exclusive unless they agreed to exclusivity. And for the record, Mr. Pink and I were having sex together 3 months before he ditched his other GF. We were not exclusive, even though I assumed he had broken up with her and assumed we were. My fault. I rectified it by dumping him until he dumped her.
Can't assume she duped him.
Can't assume he is plan B. 

Going from dating to serious can be a big step and if you're enjoying dating around I see no reason why, unless the issue if forced on her, why she should have given it up.

He won for goodness sakes!


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

marduk said:


> Yes... and no.
> 
> Yes, if they didn't have the 'exclusive' talk like grown ups, you can't assume exclusivity. It's just something you gotta do.
> 
> ...



You cannot assume she knew he thought they were exclusive.

Mr Pink also thought I knew he was still seeing his GF...


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

NoChoice said:


> OP,
> You and she started off very slowly by your own admission only seeing each other 3-4 times a month for the first few months. Perhaps she saw more potential in the OM but as she became more involved with you her feelings changed and she began to see you as the more favorable choice. By then she was already entangled with the OM and unsure how to "cut him loose" but as she grew closer to you she moved farther from him. If she is a great wife now, let it go.


Illogical, Mr Spock.

This will be the initial telling of the tale no matter what happened. It could very well have been the opposite of all that.

The reality of the situation is that this relationship started under a false premise. The real questions for OP are:

1. if you knew this when dating, would you have proceeded with the relationship?
2. are you ready to end it after all this time and effort building a marriage?


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Anon Pink said:


> You cannot assume she knew he thought they were exclusive.
> 
> Mr Pink also thought I knew he was still seeing his GF...


That does not follow. If that were the case, she would have told him by now, and not have felt guilty about it.

It's like my wife telling me a few years ago about her dating some guy not too long before we met. I said "you didn't tell me about that!"

And she said "because it was none of your business."

And it wasn't. And we carried on with our day.

Now, I agree it was a serious error and he takes partial accountability for not asking.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Gottodeal2 said:


> I am having a really hard time coping with the fact that my wife was seeing someone else during the first year we were together.
> 
> We've been together for five years, married two, we have a great relationship and have worked through many tough things, but this news took me by surprised. *I was on her email account (with her permission), to search for details from a friend and there was email from another person dating back to May 2010. *
> 
> ...



Those who know my posts know I'm not exactly warm and fuzzy when it comes to cheaters, however your situation is not that and let me explain why.

1) You said she was distant at the BEGINNING of your relationship - this does not scream exclusivity to me.

2) She knowingly let you go through her emails without giving it a second thought. How many duplicitous women do this with their husbands or boyfriends? My hunch is not many - so she obviously trusts you and feels she has nothing to hide in her email account.

3) She has stood by you through personal struggles being a loving and supportive wife. That is something to be thankful for.

Was she immature and maybe a bit childish in how she handled it - sure but that doesn't mean she is a liar and a cheater. I say TALK about it with her but don't bludgeon her with it. Tell her that you were hurt, don't swallow the hurt and then deal with it together. My hunch is - it will bother her that you have been hurt by this.

Just my 2 cents based on what you have written here. Oh and remember she CHOSE YOU! :wink2:


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

marduk said:


> That does not follow. If that were the case, she would have told him by now, and not have felt guilty about it.
> 
> It's like my wife telling me a few years ago about her dating some guy not too long before we met. I said "you didn't tell me about that!"
> 
> ...



Splitting hair here Marduk. 

There is a clear line, *exclusivity agreement*. Exclusivity assumption is not agreement. Exclusivity by custom is also not agreement.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> While it would have been better if she had come out and told you that she was also seeing someone else who she liked as much as she liked you, I suspect she avoided that confrontation as long as she could because SHE wanted to make the choice on her own organically, naturally and without pressure.
> 
> And you gave her that. You gave her the time to reach her decision on her own without any sort of pressure to make a choice. That's why she decided the way she did.
> 
> ...


I normally agree with a lot of your posts. I'm not so much in agreement with this one.

Again, was it above board? He didn't know about this other guy that she was test driving to make her informed decision. It's his fault if they never had the discussion and he assumed that they were exclusive when they were not. Did his wife back then know that he assumed they were exclusive even though they didn't have the talk (if they didn't have a discussion about the ground rules up front which is what I suspect happened), that's fvcking low on her part. Very little is actually known while a lot of assumptions about this are being made. 

Let's put the shoe on the other foot. If he knew about this other guy that she was dating at the same time as she dated him for 8 months, or found out about this other guy at month 6 - what would he have done? Today he says that he would have stuck with her; however, why couldn't he have been given a choice too? Wouldn't it have been the right thing for him to know up front that she planned to date around while seeing the OP? I would have wanted to know when I was dating someone. I understand that caveat emptor is a good phrase to keep in mind when dating (and marrying); however, isn't it much more preferable to have the candid discussion up front about what the ground rules are? Seems like he wasn't given the same opportunity to choose like she took.

You can build the nicest house in the world, but if you build it upon a foundation of sh!t, then you continue to live in that house at your own peril. 

It's up to the OP to sort this out, but I believe what he needs to determine first is whether his wife was operating deceitfully when they were supposed to be exclusive, or if she had the understanding that dating other people was expected during this time period. Considering her reaction to all of this, I think it's more than likely that she knew that he was assuming that those 2 were supposed to be exclusive during this time period and that she continued to date the 2 of them anyways. Before any further decision on how he needs to process this, he needs to determine if this was her intent or not. That's my take.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Anon Pink said:


> Splitting hair here Marduk.
> 
> There is a clear line, *exclusivity agreement*. Exclusivity assumption is not agreement. Exclusivity by custom is also not agreement.


I keep saying I'm hip to that.

What I am also saying is that how she dealt with it betrays the fact that she felt bad about it, covered it up, and he was operating under a totally different premise.

Her cover has been blown. She wants it to go away. Classic script.

Not saying "I'm exclusive" is not a free pass to deceive for years.

It's a free pass to date others while they are dating, and to be transparent about that, especially when they go to get married.

She f'd up plain and simple. And then tried to cover it up as long as she could. But not so much as to actually get rid of all the romantic baggage about it.

Which is also telling.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> Splitting hair here Marduk.
> 
> There is a clear line, *exclusivity agreement*. Exclusivity assumption is not agreement. Exclusivity by custom is also not agreement.


That's a very legalistic take on this, and TBH it's deceitful if that is the approach the OP's wife took at that time - especially if she KNEW that the assumed exclusivity and failed to correct that assumption up front. If this is what the OP's wife was really like, then I think it's more a failing by the OP to not fully know who he was dating. I'm sorry, but if I had to have the conversation with my GF that I expect you to not blow other guys while you go out on a weekend getaway...then I would no longer wish to associate with such a lady.


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## southernsurf (Feb 22, 2013)

Have to admit this is a tough one for you, some good advice given, need to think hard about your future with this woman. 
Here's the main point I have for you, I’m on the side of the advice that says you need to step back and think about your wife and ask yourself – ‘who are you, do I really know you’. In her mind she may not have felt like she was cheating. BUT, she did show you about her inner self that she can handle 2 guys at the same time, and hide it, and get away with it. That’s what you need to really think about. Technically –even though she wasn’t married to either of you – she was cheating on one of you. All young ‘experienced’ girls play a transition game, where they hang on to 1 guy, while they test ride the other to see if he’s worthy of her dumping man #1 over. Very good chance this was not the first time she did this – sleeping with 2 guys at once and good chance it won’t be the last. 

Similar thing happened to me when I was college age young. I was living with my GF 1.5 yrs while trying to finish undergrad, she worked. I started reading all the red flags – this was before internet so it took linger - it was clear and hit me she was checking out some guy she worked with but did not want lose me. I played my cards, collected evidence and then walked in on them. She freaked out etc etc. Long story short she dumped him immediately, claimed she made a mistake and really only wanted me (lucky me she picked me). I wasn’t playing the pick me game, ultimately I dumped her rather than take her back because as I said in the beginning she was good at it and learned how to handle 2 guys at once - that’s was a major RED flag. End of story, did I make the right decision. You tell me. She started partying hard and has now been divorced 3 times –lasting between 2 and 8 yrs each, and currently living with her mother in an apartment. She’s back where she started with me. I heard from common friends that were visiting at my beach house there was cheating involved in each marriage. I just said not surprised. My advice keep your eyes open.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I think this is a tough situation. As others have said if you didn't agree to be exclusive then you can't assume you are. I'm also not sure I think it's a good idea to bring up everything you did before you agreed to be exclusive. But 8 months is a long time to string 2 guys along, and I think it's disgusting to sleep with multiple people and not be upfront about it as everyone involved deserves to know what's going on.

She wasn't confused, unless "confused" means that she just wasn't sure who she wanted so she held onto both. Lots of people do that and it's crappy, but it happens all the time. She has shown questionable character, but is it enough to end the marriage? That's a question only you can answer. Answer it now though before you start with kids, it's not fair to either of you to live with it if it's going to continue to bother you. In an idea world, what is it that you'd want from her now? Is there anything she could do in your eyes to help you get beyond this? If not then maybe you should pull the plug.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> I think this is a tough situation. As others have said if you didn't agree to be exclusive then you can't assume you are. I'm also not sure I think it's a good idea to bring up everything you did before you agreed to be exclusive. But 8 months is a long time to string 2 guys along, and I think it's disgusting to sleep with multiple people and not be upfront about it as everyone involved deserves to know what's going on.
> 
> She wasn't confused, unless "confused" means that she just wasn't sure who she wanted so she held onto both. Lots of people do that and it's crappy, but it happens all the time. She has shown questionable character, but is it enough to end the marriage? That's a question only you can answer. Answer it now though before you start with kids, it's not fair to either of you to live with it if it's going to continue to bother you. In an idea world, what is it that you'd want from her now? Is there anything she could do in your eyes to help you get beyond this? If not then maybe you should pull the plug.


I think the OP should discuss it with her and voice his concerns. He should state his trust is a bit shaken but to end a marriage to someone by the OP's own admission has stood by him through thick and thin - I'm not sure. Was it sh*tty behavior - sure but if couples can work through LTAs and stay together I'm sure these two can work through this. The one thing the OP should not do is swallow the pain and rugsweep that is poison.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

Gottodeal2 said:


> Yes. This and the fact she didn't tell me before we got married, really bothers me. *But based on the fact, that I did do a lot of "assuming," we weren't engaged or married*, and the fact that she's stood by and supported me during the most trying time of my life, I can't throw away my marriage. As I stated, she is a good person and the last person anyone would expect.
> 
> 
> *She was very emotionally unavailable for quite some time and we would often only see each other for three, four times max during the first months*. Once she opened up, our relationship moved forward in an amazing way. I thought she was distanced for other reasons, but turns out, another guy was also a big reason. *How she found time to date both of us, I don't know. *
> ...


*



But based on the fact, that I did do a lot of "assuming," we weren't engaged or married

Click to expand...

*For whatever reason, whether you're just sugar coating or rug sweeping. Trying to use your bad time that she backed you up to equal this time.. It's all okay.. IF you're okay with it.. You DON'T have to justify anything to anyone here.. 

So now by your own words NOW, you weren't exclusive.. So everything else I bolded in your statement is a moot point..

Why are you wondering why it went for 8 months when you just said you weren't exclusive ? 

Pick your words, look at what you're saying and realize you are contradicting yourself.

Again you want to fool yourself by all means do so.. Again I choose to fool myself with my Ex wife and the ExGF.. But lessons learned and I moved on from them. 

So again YOU need to decide what YOU feel here.. It seems to me as if you decided you weren't exclusive so what's your issue..


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> She loved him and you and it turned out that she loved you more and you were the better man.
> 
> Sorry. What's your problem, here?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He thought he was getting the whole pvssy. Instead, he was sharing it with another guy. 

That's consumer fraud right thar.....


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

drifting on said:


> I can agree with this to a certain degree, and I fully understand what you are saying, but my beliefs come into play here. If I am dating someone, that is the only person I date, I am no longer in line at the market. Since everyone doesn't have my beliefs, which is good for many other reasons, but after three months of continuous dating I think you are either dating others to cheat or plain wasting your time. After eight months of dating two men, no, I'm sorry, you have no argument, it's cheating.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree with you in principle, but I guess I'm looking at it from a legalistic standpoint. 

The OP has not clarified what happened, but nowadays with people being as promiscuous and free-wheeling as they are, if there was no "express" agreement between OP and his W/GF that they were an exclusive couple, then it is not cheating...if you hold it up under the scrutiny of today's loose social morals. 

You and I are of a kind. If I have been dating a girl for 8 months I would naturally assume she was only dating me. That is the way it should be. 

But that is no longer the way it is. 

My point is, it is dangerous to assume anything in this day and age. 

When I assume I make an "a-s-s" out of "u" and "m-e".....


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

Gottodeal2 said:


> . As I stated, she is a good person and the last person anyone would expect.


My fvcking wife baked cupcakes for our kids parties at school.. She baked cakes for me and the kids on a whim.. 

I thought she would be the last person in the world to abandon me and our kids.. 

But she fvcking did !

Her relatives and somewhat her parents as well think she MUST BE on drugs to just leave her kids.. Hey if that is the excuse they want to believe.. By all means do so, whatever makes you sleep at night.. 

But don't come here telling me that because I will tell you the straight facts, she isn't on drugs.. She just plain left her kids.. Its not a man or woman thing as people want to play this sh!t.. Because it pisses me the fvck off when I hear men do that stuff but women don't because you know, it came out of their womb bullsh!t..

But to me you just want to make excuses and again it is OKAY.. I've been through my sh!t.. More than once.. But at least be honest about it.. At least with yourself because again later on THIS will piss you off even more.. Because months or years later something will trigger this again and it will hit you like a ton of bricks that you were just bullsh!tting yourself and that guilt feeling knowing you LIED to yourself is even worse.. I beat myself up every day for the stupid things I let go and accepted in my last relationship.. If this me could back in time I would hit old me with a metal pipe across the head..


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> I agree with you in principle, but I guess I'm looking at it from a legalistic standpoint.
> 
> The OP has not clarified what happened, but nowadays with people being as promiscuous and free-wheeling as they are, if there was no "express" agreement between OP and his W/GF that they were an exclusive couple, then it is not cheating...if you hold it up under the scrutiny of today's loose social morals.
> 
> ...


Bandit my ExGF made it clear to me from past relationships. If the word wasn't mentioned it didn't happen.. And if for some reason it was mentioned and she didn't want it.. She would just skirt around it and not answer it.. Which mean it didn't happen.. I feel bad for the next sucker like me..


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I'm kind of laughing at the technical and legal jargon.

Just where the hell is that law book that keeps being quoted like scripture?

Anon seems to think it exists but I've never seen it.

She might very well have been servicing two or more men while choosing her husband and maybe they were all sleeping with other women at the same time and they were all cool with non disclosure.

The thing is, if you don't know, how do you agree to it?

Anon. Your legal book of who is technically legal to fvck who doesn't exist.

OPs wife was just as much at fault if she "assumed" banging two men for 8 months without letting them know about it was fine.

She obviously knew it wasn't ok and hid it anyway.

You probably need to get a book published and peer reviewed and approved by the vast majority of the human race before you start quoting it as the rule of the land and law. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I think what she did was a sh!tty, whether they were exclusive or not. Now...is it divorce worthy? No, I don't think so. 

If she has shown herself to be a good, loving, loyal wife, then I think with marriage counseling they can get through this. What bothers me is that she does not seem to think it is as big a deal as her husband does. There seems to be an imbalance of expectations here that will need to be addressed.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> While it would have been better if she had come out and told you that she was also seeing someone else who she liked as much as she liked you, I suspect she avoided that confrontation as long as she could because SHE wanted to make the choice on her own organically, naturally and without pressure.
> 
> *And you gave her that.* You gave her the time to reach her decision on her own without any sort of pressure to make a choice. That's why she decided the way she did.
> 
> ...


The part in bold I disagree with. He didn't give her that, she took it without his knowledge or consent.

I agree with the part in red. IF she had not agreed explicitly that they were exclusive it was not cheating. I don't remember seeing that question answered, and I'm not joining in with the chorus of angry misandrists who come out of the wood work any time they think they detect the slightest trace of **** shaming. 

I don't think this rises to a kill the marriage level. However, I would be spot checking phone bills, browser history, facebook messaging, etc. The days of unlimited trust are gone.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

Most of us here have the advantage of age and the accompanying wisdom. We also have the advantage of perspective, seeing this from 30,000 feet. However, most of us also have the disadvantage of a jaded perspective. Are we now considering dating as a contractual agreement? 3-4 times a month for the first few months constitutes exclusivity? Have we become so sensitive to "cheaters" that we now include dating in the list of committed relationships. They were not engaged, they were not living together, they were seeing each other 3-4 times a month. Can that even be considered "going steady"?

It seems obvious that they were in a sexual relationship but it is my understanding that "casual sex" is now considered the norm. Let's go out and grab some dinner and then an ice cream cone then go back and have intercourse and then watch a movie.

OP, by your own admission she has indicated that she was in a situation that she had never been in before and she admits to not handling it as she would today. Also, when you found the email "the story came out", you do not indicate that she tried to hide anything from you and actually make it sound as though she was forthcoming with the information and her regret in the way she handled it.

Perhaps she never considered it as "hiding" anything from you since you two were casually dating. Did you ever ask her if she was seeing anyone else and she directly lied to you?

Since you have become serious and eventually married has she ever given you cause to doubt her or her intent? If not then perhaps accept that she may have been more promiscuous than you would have liked but she is not a cheating low life. She has grown, you have grown, continue to do so together and let this stay in the past where it belongs. Build your lives together and have a good, long solid marriage.

Or, if you wish to read into this that she is a serial cheater and that it is inevitable that she will cheat on you at some point in the future then by all means D her, kick her to the curb, throw her out and say good riddance but.....


MattMatt said:


> Be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

NoChoice said:


> Most of us here have the advantage of age and the accompanying wisdom. We also have the advantage of perspective, seeing this from 30,000 feet. However, most of us also have the disadvantage of a jaded perspective. Are we now considering dating as a contractual agreement? 3-4 times a month for the first few months constitutes exclusivity? Have we become so sensitive to "cheaters" that we now include dating in the list of committed relationships. They were not engaged, they were not living together, they were seeing each other 3-4 times a month. Can that even be considered "going steady"?
> 
> It seems obvious that they were in a sexual relationship but it is my understanding that "casual sex" is now considered the norm. Let's go out and grab some dinner and then an ice cream cone then go back and have intercourse and then watch a movie.


It doesn't matter if they see each other 3-4 times a month or 1 time every 2 months.. If exclusivity is mentioned than its exclusive..

By the OPs own flubbing admissions now,


> But based on the fact, that I did do a lot of "assuming," we weren't engaged or married


They weren't exclusive.. 

The case is closed until he comes back here and said otherwise.. and he will


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

If you two had not agreed to date exclusively, then it wasn't technically cheating.

But what she did was pretty sh*tty IMO based on one fact you mentioned OP.

You said you told her you loved her and wanted to get serious with her....but she kept being distant with you, lack of 'I love yous', and dragging her feet.

At that point when you had expressed how you felt and what you wanted, she OWED you an explanation IMO...a "Sorry, I'm not sure about a commitment yet....I'm seeing someone else too at this moment, and I'm not sure what I want."

That's honest....that allows YOU to make the choice if you want to still pursue being with her knowing the full details on what's really going on.

Hiding this other guy was just PURE SELFISHNESS at that point....she didn't want you to have that choice because she was afraid you would just back away and break up with her, and she might want to keep you.

She was trying to decide who was Plan A and who was Plan B.

And if its wrong when cheaters do it.....hiding the other relationship while they, and only they, get to choose which relationship they really want.....then it was da*n well wrong of her to do it even while dating.

The concerns for you NOW, IMO, are that this clearly shows that she has the capacity to very easily be dishonest and extremely selfish to get what she wants.

You two may be at a happy time and moment in your M presently, but you are still in the 'honeymoon' phase.

How can you be sure she doesn't return to this entitled princess decision making process if things get tough?

I think you should ask her for MC to hash this out so she understands how wrong and dishonest what she did was, and that she understands that it is something she can NEVER do again if she expects her M to survive.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> You cannot assume she knew he thought they were exclusive.
> 
> ...


No you cannot assume that.

But you can reason that she deliberately knew that OP would be upset by this enough to hide it from him, at the time she was sleeping with them both, and then after she chose OP and throughout their engagement and marriage.

*Now* she feels bad and so does he.

You both have a right to feel the way you do. You indicate a willingness to resolve the issue. I encourage you to do so in a healthy manner with a counselor.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

NoChoice said:


> Most of us here have the advantage of age and the accompanying wisdom. We also have the advantage of perspective, seeing this from 30,000 feet. However, most of us also have the disadvantage of a jaded perspective. Are we now considering dating as a contractual agreement? 3-4 times a month for the first few months constitutes exclusivity? Have we become so sensitive to "cheaters" that we now include dating in the list of committed relationships. They were not engaged, they were not living together, they were seeing each other 3-4 times a month. Can that even be considered "going steady"?
> 
> It seems obvious that they were in a sexual relationship but it is my understanding that "casual sex" is now considered the norm. Let's go out and grab some dinner and then an ice cream cone then go back and have intercourse and then watch a movie.
> 
> ...


Not so black and white on this thread.

Not all of us who define her actions as cheating are advocating divorce or even not to trust her.

I am advocating counseling for her to face her bad choices at the beginning of her relationship with her husband and to help him work through his emotions about it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Must remember to ask the next woman I casually date/hang out with/talk on the phone everyday/text throughout the day/bang if we're exclusive and that if she's currently banging any guys to please stop as it would break our exclusivity. 

I will present her with a contract that she will then sign...but it will be over dinner, in the glow of candle lights so it will be romantic.....


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

LOL! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

We are conversing on this thread basically based on assumptions. OP has not provided enough detail of their dating. I have assumed considerably on this thread, but this is what bothers me. He won, everybody who has said this I ask one question. What contest in hell did OP win? OP, when you began dating your now wife did you ask if she was seeing anyone else? Who did your wife begin to date first? OP has only said she met them both around the same time. 

It bothers me that after three months she is still dating both. Why? Because she has to split her time to see two different men. If she had just picked one op's relationship would have been better sooner. But no, she strung this out for eight months never saying anything to OP and for that matter OM!! Are you kidding me! It's cheating! Who would stay? I would have been long gone, and without kids now if be seriously considering divorce. 

As for the email that's her trophy, most likely didn't think OP would go all the way back to 2010 to look for a recent email. Oops!! My bad, you found my trophy, but hey I chose you honey!!! This stinks to high heaven!! Read OP's second post and her excuse sounds like cheater script. She knew what she was doing, she cheated, and because we all threw our morals away, we say they weren't exclusive!! I'm sorry I don't get where y'all are coming from, it shouldn't have taken her more then a month to decide. Personally, I am old fashioned and I have understood bandits posts, but exclusivity isn't a contract, engaged isn't a contract, marriage is a union that comes with a license. Exclusivity and engagement are common sense to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I hear you drifting. I would have been gone long before 8 months because I have always been a little savvy about situations like this.

If I were OP, I would seriously consider divorce but I am not him and this is far more fixable than most situations. Far more fixable than your own to be honest.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

OP, there are two lines of discussion here:

One is whether or not you two were technically exclusive or not - the jury seems to be out on that one (although I would go with implied exclusivity over 8 months).


The second line of discussion is as to whether she is a good person or not. This is where I cautioned you in my last post. Do not assume that because she has said and done the right thing after marriage that this latent trait may not exist. She, in my opinion, is not all that nice! She did a very sh!tty thing - first of all riding the two horses and making you work to "win" her and then not telling you until well after you two were married. Whatever you say, these are not the actions of a nice person. Deal with this now as it may come back later to bite you in the butt!


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## Gottodeal2 (Jul 24, 2015)

NoChoice said:


> Most of us here have the advantage of age and the accompanying wisdom. We also have the advantage of perspective, seeing this from 30,000 feet. However, most of us also have the disadvantage of a jaded perspective. Are we now considering dating as a contractual agreement? 3-4 times a month for the first few months constitutes exclusivity? Have we become so sensitive to "cheaters" that we now include dating in the list of committed relationships. They were not engaged, they were not living together, they were seeing each other 3-4 times a month. Can that even be considered "going steady"?
> 
> It seems obvious that they were in a sexual relationship but it is my understanding that "casual sex" is now considered the norm. Let's go out and grab some dinner and then an ice cream cone then go back and have intercourse and then watch a movie.
> 
> ...


It was not a casual relationship. We saw each other three times a week. She was emotionally unavailable basically, until she told me she loved me too. I told her after six and a half months, that I was falling in love with her. She told me she loved around in June 2010. My friends told me I was a sucker, because I kept coming back. Maybe I was back then but i was in love with her.

We never had "the talk." So I don't know, I assumed I was the only person she was seeing. We were sleeping together so I assumed. I feel like an idiot for not seeing the signs.

She broke down and told me eveything when I asked who this guy was. She said she's really sorry and regrets not telling me sooner. I think she should of told me before we got serious. 

Besides this, she has never given me reason to doubt her and like I posted earlier, she has stuck by me through some very difficult ordeals. I will never doubt her heart. I know she's a good person.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Justinian (Mar 7, 2015)

drifting on said:


> ... What contest in hell did OP win?


If you don't consider the chance to spend the rest of your life with a woman you deeply love a win, then I feel sorry for you.

As for "hell", it only becomes that if he allows that in his mind. As I said earlier, I had a very similar situation happen to me. Yes, I was upset when I first found out about the details, but I wasn't going to let it get in the way of being with the woman I wanted. I just let it go. Forty years later I still have a wonderful life with that woman, and no regrets.

We all have situations that we don't handle well, and later regret, especially when we're young. I think counseling in this case is a good idea, it will help the OP to get the proper perspective on this, and may prevent him doing something stupid, like throwing away a perfectly good marriage.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

Gottodeal2 said:


> It was not a casual relationship. We saw each other three times a week. She was emotionally unavailable basically, until she told me she loved me too. I told her after six and a half months, that I was falling in love with her. She told me she loved around in June 2010. My friends told me I was a sucker, because I kept coming back. Maybe I was back then but i was in love with her.
> 
> We never had "the talk." So I don't know, I assumed I was the only person she was seeing. We were sleeping together so I assumed. I feel like an idiot for not seeing the signs.
> 
> ...


OP,
perhaps she feels like an "idiot" for handling it the way she did. 

The decision you must make now is whether you believe this is, as some have said, latent in her personality. If so, then you need to move on. If not and you believe her to be virtuous and trustworthy then you need to move on, together. You can know this better than any of we posting here. Good fortune to you.


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## Justinian (Mar 7, 2015)

Gottodeal2 said:


> ... I think she should of told me before we got serious.
> 
> ... Besides this, she has never given me reason to doubt her and like I posted earlier, she has stuck by me through some very difficult ordeals. I will never doubt her heart. I know she's a good person.


Yes, she should have, but she didn't. She would probably handle it differently if given a "do over".

Now forget about it and enjoy your life together.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I don't think he should throw away anything but if he "won" anything it was a manipulative two timer without the knowledge that he "won" anything.

She apparently regrets being a manipulative two timer so she seems good to go. Plus, she apparently has been a great wife and really been there for him through something tough.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Justinian said:


> Yes, she should have, but she didn't. She would probably handle it differently if given a "do over".
> 
> Now forget about it and enjoy your life together.


Your advice is really bad! 

Just telling someone to forget sexual betrayal is stupid.

Working through it will get them through it.

There is no forgetting. You are not OP either.

Apparently your wife was sharing her "garage" with another car the same time as yours and didn't let you know.

You apparently didn't mind and just "forgot" about it.

That is only cool for you. Most do not get healthier by just "forgetting" about it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Gottodeal2 said:


> I told her after six and a half months, that I was falling in love with her. She told me she loved around in June 2010. My friends told me I was a sucker, because I kept coming back. Maybe I was back then but i was in love with her.


Ok my man, help me out with the time line. You started dating in month 1. In month 6.5, you told her you were falling in love with her. In what month did she ditch the other man? Month 8? Last, when did you find out she was dating this other cat; was she still date him after she told you she loved you?


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Gottodeal2 said:


> Besides this, she has never given me reason to doubt her and like I posted earlier, she has stuck by me through some very difficult ordeals. I will never doubt her heart. I know she's a good person.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well she _did_ two time you! So she has given you reason to doubt her. And, she has some admirable qualities you've seen. She's not all devil, nor angel.



manfromlamancha said:


> The second line of discussion is as to whether she is a good person or not. This is where I cautioned you in my last post. Do not assume that because she has said and done the right thing after marriage that this latent trait may not exist. She, in my opinion, is not all that nice! She did a very sh!tty thing - first of all riding the two horses and making you work to "win" her and then not telling you until well after you two were married. Whatever you say, these are not the actions of a nice person. Deal with this now as it may come back later to bite you in the butt!


This is what my experience has been. The latent trait is still there, because it is integral to her template of what is acceptable behavior within a close personal relationship. She has a ground rule which says it is ok to keep big secrets in order to facilitate something she wants. Her ground rules say it is ok to manipulate another via the withholding of information.

Everthing will be fine until one day it isn't. When that ground rule comes in handy ten or twenty years from now, she'll revert back to it. How do I know this? Because it is _her basic rule set_ of what is ok for her to do.

There are many ways she may revert to it. You won't know until the shtf with it. There may be many times you don't find out about it! But someday, somewhere, she will invoke the use of the rule "What he doesn't know will help me".

I bet there are numerous examples of this behavior in her family. One or more parents, grandparents, or siblings have a history of deceptions. This is why it seems ok to her.

Ignore this at your own peril. MC seems like it is mandatory in order to get this resolved.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Gottodeal2. Are you both willing to read some books together and attend some counseling that deals with recovering from infidelity?

It could, and probably would, help you both immensely.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"She said she's really sorry and regrets not telling me sooner. I think she should of told me before we got serious."

Actually, she should have told you about her other boyfriend when YOU asked for exclusivity and a serious relationship.

Just because someone WANTS a serious relationship at some point, does not mean that the other person has to make an instant decision to accept or reject that desire right away.....hey, the jury may still be out for them on what they want.

But I think that an honest and frank explanation of the situation IS a requirement.

She should have honestly told you at that point (6.5 months by your memory) that she wasn't sure if an exclusive relationship is what she wanted....she should have told you she was seeing the other guy, had feelings for him too, and honestly did not know where her heart really was.

THAT would have allowed YOU to have the power of choice in the relationship....it would be up to you to decide if you wanted to continue wooing her because she was the one for you...or for you to back out because despite your feelings, if she was also in love with this other guy, you did not want to continue to chase her.

THIS is what her selfish dishonesty robbed you of....she was unwilling to allow you to have the info to make informed decisions about your own future.

What she did is very common....heck you could probably go on youtube right now and find at least a half dozen postings where 2 men or 2 women discover that each of them has been dating the same person, and they confront the two-timer together.

Your W managed to escape detection at the time....and you two are now happily M.

So what does this mean to you today now that you know she was a very selfish liar while you dated?

It means nothing really as long as you can be sure that she really does know that what she did was horribly dishonest and selfish towards you....and knows that she was wrong and can NEVER allow her capacity for selfish deception to happen again.

MC might be good to help you two navigate through this situation and discussions.


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## Justinian (Mar 7, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> Your advice is really bad!


In your opinion.

In my opinion, it's a mistake to make too much of this.



ConanHub said:


> Just telling someone to forget sexual betrayal is stupid.
> 
> Working through it will get them through it.


From what I read, it doesn't look that much like a betrayal.

And I think if his wife had seen it as such, she would have taken steps to remove all evidence.

However, I do agree with them "working through it". Whatever it takes.



ConanHub said:


> There is no forgetting. You are not OP either.


Totally forgetting is probably not possible, but that doesn't mean he must let it eat at him the way it seems to be doing.



ConanHub said:


> Apparently your wife was sharing her "garage" with another car the same time as yours and didn't let you know.
> 
> You apparently didn't mind and just "forgot" about it.
> 
> That is only cool for you. Most do not get healthier by just "forgetting" about it.


If you read my first post in this thread you'll see that I said my situation was _similar_. My wife refused to be intimate with me while still attached to the other man. I just did not know why, or that he existed until after we were married. She was honest with me about not seeing me as a long term relationship. Beyond that, I don't think she owed me more of an explanation. To me, the similarity is that she at some point found herself with the dilemma of having strong feelings for two men at the same time, and she handled it the best way she knew how at the time.

I did not forget about it, I just put it in perspective. I've have never seen what's to be gained by obsessing over it for the rest of my life.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Doesn't anyone think if you're fvcking more than one person at the same time you should automatically disclose that info?

If for no other reason at least health concerns and consent to accept the risk?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Justinian said:


> In your opinion.
> 
> In my opinion, it's a mistake to make too much of this.
> 
> ...


I did read your post. Your situation was different in at least your future wife wasn't boinking two men at the same time without their knowledge.

As to what my opinion is... LOL!

Just forgetting about it is proven in numerous cases to absolutely not work!

If it did even half the time I would advise it sometimes. 

It doesn't. Do your research.

We agree on not letting it destroy the rest of his life. That takes work, by her, owning it and learning how to help her husband through her betrayal.

They both believe it was. If they didn't, they would be you. They obviously aren't.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Justinian (Mar 7, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> Doesn't anyone think if you're fvcking more than one person at the same time you should automatically disclose that info?
> 
> If for no other reason at least health concerns and consent to accept the risk?


Yes, I do, today.

But, back in my days before marriage I was young and stupid. I often had several sexual relationships going at the same time, and didn't think much about it. Luckily, nothing bad happened.


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## Justinian (Mar 7, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> ... It doesn't. Do your research.


You've been on this forum longer than have, but I'm guessing I've been on the planet much longer, may have more relationship experience, and have certainly done more than my share of research over the years.

The OP asked for different perspectives on his situation, and because I had a similar situation happen to me, I thought I had something to add.

He can take from it what he wishes.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Justinian said:


> You've been on this forum longer than have, but I'm guessing I've been on the planet much longer, may have more relationship experience, and have certainly done more than my share of research over the years.
> 
> The OP asked for different perspectives on his situation, and because I had a similar situation happen to me, I thought I had something to add.
> 
> He can take from it what he wishes.


I haven't just been on this forum longer. I have been counseling and researching marital problems, including infidelity, for nearly two decades.

Your advice doesn't work.

You have been with your wife almost as long as I have been alive.

I respect that. Your advice about just getting over it is terrible however.

Your perspective on the joys to come are valid.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"Doesn't anyone think if you're fvcking more than one person at the same time you should automatically disclose that info?

If for no other reason at least health concerns and consent to accept the risk?"

Yep....I'm always honest and upfront with the women I date that I see other women also.

Just simple courtesy and honesty IMO.

But I also know that type of honesty is rare as hen's teeth.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

You May not doubt her love now but one thing you can't doubt is that she was getting banged by the both of you....for perhaps months....and that you can't deny.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Justinian said:


> Yes, she should have, but she didn't. She would probably handle it differently if given a "do over".
> 
> Now forget about it and enjoy your life together.


And if he knew that she was seeing two guys at the same time plus being sexually active with both, perhaps he would have handled this situation differently, like drop her like a bad habit. 

IDK, but it seems like a lot of people in this thread seem to have a fairy tale mentality about relationships. Despite doing him wrong, "she's THE ONE", so all must be processed and forgotten. Real life doesn't work that way. Do you guys realize how many "soulmates" there are out there for you? Honestly, easily dozens and that will just be in your immediate geographic vicinity. 

I'm going to state that if the OP decides that he cannot stick with this woman because of what she did back when dating, then he is not a fool if he chooses to leave her. Nor is he a fool if he chooses to stay with her. Think about this in relation to sunk costs. If he's going to cut his losses because his wife has a fundamental difference in value systems, better to do it now while he has little invested in the relationship than to decide it's not a go 15 or 20 years later if he realizes that he cannot remove that lack of trust or resentment.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Technically she wasn't cheating and g2d played his part in everything. That being said, she was willing to rationalize stringing two guys along until she decided which one she wanted. That should worry g2d because there's normally one guy she really wants who won't commit to her and then another guy who waits for her to see him. We know which one g2d is. He's the one who puppy dogged behind her for a year likely as her plan B without asking if they were exclusive because he knew they weren't. Maybe things will work out but it sure started on a weak foundation.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Plan 9,

I agree....'soulmates' is stupid bullsh*t that hopelessly emotional thinkers use to describe limerance.

OP says his W is great today and their M is very happy....so I would advise that he and his W should discuss this, with an MC if it helps, so she acknowledges what she did was selfish, deceptive, and sh*tty....AND can never be allowed to rear its ugly head again when (not if, as any long term M person could attest) they hit a rough patch.

If he had come here with any complaints about selfish traits continuing to this day in their M....I would tell him to kick her to the curb so fast her head would spin, because IMO that would be a sign that there is too great of a risk that her selfishness would lead him back to similar situation, with his W in a secret A trying to decide which guy she really wanted to keep all over again.

Who would want to stay for that sh*t?

But OP knows his W better than any of us....based on what he has shared, she gets that what she did was wrong and is unlikely to ever do it again.

Good luck OP....BUT have those conversations with your W so she can never claim you were not crystal clear on your feelings and opinions both on the past and what you expect in the future.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

Gottodeal2 said:


> Yes. This and the fact she didn't tell me before we got married, really bothers me. But based on the fact, that I did do a lot of "assuming," we weren't engaged or married, and the fact that she's stood by and supported me during the most trying time of my life, I can't throw away my marriage. As I stated, she is a good person and the last person anyone would expect.
> 
> She was very emotionally unavailable for quite some time and* we would often only see each other for three, four times max during the first months*. Once she opened up, our relationship moved forward in an amazing way. I thought she was distanced for other reasons, but turns out, another guy was also a big reason. How she found time to date both of us, I don't know.
> 
> ...





Gottodeal2 said:


> It was not a casual relationship. *We saw each other three times a week.* She was emotionally unavailable basically, until she told me she loved me too. I told her after six and a half months, that I was falling in love with her. She told me she loved around in June 2010. My friends told me I was a sucker, because I kept coming back. Maybe I was back then but i was in love with her.
> 
> We never had "the talk." So I don't know, I assumed I was the only person she was seeing. We were sleeping together so I assumed. I feel like an idiot for not seeing the signs.
> 
> ...


Make up your mind.. Get your stories straight because this is almost sounding like bullsh!t to me..

Regardless you're back peddling now regarding the whole exclusive thing. 

Why don't you really decide where you sit on this and then come back.. 

Because you really don't want an answer or help.. You can't stand if someone says something bad about your wife.. You're defending her yourself by using the line she helped you through rough times.. 

Okay.. So np then.. Listen let me know when she helps you through rough times so once she does.. I can come over and fvck her.. And its all cool because she helped you out.. 

For that matter I helped my friends move a few times.. I should go ask his wife for a B.J.. My friends helped me from not killing myself.. I guess I need to let them fvck my next GF or future wife.. Man I hope she understands when I try to explain it to her..

Look again it's okay.. We get it you love her.. Time heals all wounds.. Again I've been there done that.. Made the excuses.. I understand.. Later when you get older and you learn some more, you realize how stupid you were.. 

Take care..


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Justinian said:


> If you don't consider the chance to spend the rest of your life with a woman you deeply love a win, then I feel sorry for you.
> 
> As for "hell", it only becomes that if he allows that in his mind. As I said earlier, I had a very similar situation happen to me. Yes, I was upset when I first found out about the details, but I wasn't going to let it get in the way of being with the woman I wanted. I just let it go. Forty years later I still have a wonderful life with that woman, and no regrets.
> 
> We all have situations that we don't handle well, and later regret, especially when we're young. I think counseling in this case is a good idea, it will help the OP to get the proper perspective on this, and may prevent him doing something stupid, like throwing away a perfectly good marriage.




I wrote what contest in he!! did he win as others were saying she chose him, that he gave her the time to decide. My statement about what did he win is as sarcastic as she chose you. As in, boy are you lucky she chose you!! My opinion is that you date one person at a time not two. Also the OP has stated this is eating at him now that he has discovered this little in-exclusive little hiccup. Yeah, that's more sarcasm, because dating two people for eight months is cheating. Period.

As for advice I have never said to divorce her, I have said I would probably would have if I didn't have kids with her. But that's me. The advice I did give I told OP to go to MC and work this through. That's the best advice I can possibly give OP.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> I agree with you in principle, but I guess I'm looking at it from a legalistic standpoint.
> 
> The OP has not clarified what happened, but nowadays with people being as promiscuous and free-wheeling as they are, if there was no "express" agreement between OP and his W/GF that they were an exclusive couple, then it is not cheating...if you hold it up under the scrutiny of today's loose social morals.
> 
> ...




I hear you Bandit, I guess I'm losing touch with reality in thinking that you only date one person at a time. I should know by now loyalty gets you nowhere, but I'll stay the same thank you. Just don't get these generation gaps. Stay strong buddy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> I hear you drifting. I would have been gone long before 8 months because I have always been a little savvy about situations like this.
> 
> If I were OP, I would seriously consider divorce but I am not him and this is far more fixable than most situations. Far more fixable than your own to be honest.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




ConanHub

Your last sentence couldn't be anymore true. Quite honestly I still have doubts in my situation. But if I remain with IC to fix me, be the best me I can, I believe I will one day in the future find peace and happiness I so doggedly try to find. I can't control my WW and keep her doing the right way, but so far she has, and as long as she does I'm here fighting too. 

Yes, OP's situation can be more easily fixed then mine, if they do MC who specializes in infidelity, and they do the hard work. If they don't use MC as the best tool they have this marriage is doomed. It bothers OP now, and a year from now it will be even more. And by then OP's wall of resentment he's building will be to much to tear down. I hope they both go to MC.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Infidelity?

Seriously?

I think the marriage counselor is going to laugh you out of the office if you go with this infidelity thought process.

"So, your wife was dating someone else when she started dating you, and you two weren't exclusive yet you feel you've been cheated on...4 years later? I see. Why don't you tell me a little bit more about your childhood?"

OP, you should start a thread somewhere else or better yet, another forum altogether.

You're not going to get perspective here.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

It took you seven months to tell her you loved her and it took her eight months?

So what's the problem?

You only dated her 3 or 4 times a month, that's not even once a week. That's not what going steady is. Being exclusive is seeing each other many times a week, talking on the phone etc. constantly and knowing what the other is doing and with who.

Or....... you were seeing her three times a week but she still had time to date other people and she was constantly lying about what she was doing?


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Originally Posted by Gottodeal2 View Post
It was not a casual relationship. We saw each other three times a week. She was emotionally unavailable basically, until she told me she loved me too. I told her after six and a half months, that I was falling in love with her. She told me she loved around in June 2010. My friends told me I was a sucker, because I kept coming back. Maybe I was back then but i was in love with her.

We never had "the talk." So I don't know, I assumed I was the only person she was seeing. We were sleeping together so I assumed. I feel like an idiot for not seeing the signs.

She broke down and told me eveything when I asked who this guy was. She said she's really sorry and regrets not telling me sooner. I think she should of told me before we got serious. 

Besides this, she has never given me reason to doubt her and like I posted earlier, she has stuck by me through some very difficult ordeals. I will never doubt her heart. I know she's a good person.
Posted via Mobile Device


It wasn't a casual relationship, but he didn't have the talk as he says and assumed. However, she broke down and told OP of this guy, she regrets not telling OP sooner. So in her mind she feels guilty, and should have been at the very least truthful with OP. So at six and a half months OP tells her he is falling in love, if someone tells you that they are now serious. But, since OP did not say the word exclusive, it's all bulls--t!!!! So she breaks down and says she should have told him sooner. Why? They weren't "exclusive", yet she knew it was serious and went on sleeping with OM for almost two more months!!!! "Exclusive", maybe you people have the wrong word in mind and should replace it with "evasive" which is what she was, and what the truth is as it is infidelity.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> It took you seven months to tell her you loved her and it took her eight months?
> 
> So what's the problem?
> 
> ...


The latter is correct. It wasn't casual.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

gottodeal2

Go live a long happy, married life.

Too many TAMMERS are getting crazy on your thread. 

The keyword you mentioned is *"ASSUMED"*.

I think that is important. You assumed incorrectly.

And your GF at the time took advantage of that. **** happens.

On a positive note she chose you. Hooray! You won the girl.

The lesson to be learned is never assume you know what is going on in your partners head.

Communication is key in any relationship. And it must be honest and open.

Now tell your wife to clean out her old messages. And ask her is there anything else she needs to tell you before this chapter on your lives is closed.

Good Luck

HM


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> Doesn't anyone think if you're fvcking more than one person at the same time you should automatically disclose that info?
> 
> If for no other reason at least health concerns and consent to accept the risk?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The key here is "anyone". I believe in today's culture this is not as cut and dry as it was in our day. Sex today is like kissing was in our day, you do it on the first or second date. Therefore I do not believe that young people ascribe the significance to sex, especially premarital, as we do/did. 

Giving of yourself to another had some meaning of importance. Today it is like giving them a piece of gum. If we consider it to be, from their perspective, much less significant than it is/was to us then it is easier to understand why its disclosure can be seen as irrelevant or at least trivial.



Dyokemm said:


> Yep....I'm always honest and upfront with the women I date that I see other women also.
> 
> Just simple courtesy and honesty IMO.
> 
> *But I also know that type of honesty is rare as hen's teeth.*


This is true again, I believe because of the insignificance the act of sex now has in our culture.



Hardtohandle said:


> Gottodeal2 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes. This and the fact she didn't tell me before we got married, really bothers me. But based on the fact, that I did do a lot of "assuming," we weren't engaged or married, and the fact that she's stood by and supported me during the most trying time of my life, I can't throw away my marriage. As I stated, she is a good person and the last person anyone would expect.
> ...


This is confusing. I assumed the OP meant 3-4 times a month but it could have been interpreted as 3-4 total times in the first few months. Now he indicates 3-4 times a week??



drifting on said:


> I hear you Bandit, *I guess I'm losing touch with reality in thinking that you only date one person at a time.* I should know by now loyalty gets you nowhere, but I'll stay the same thank you. *Just don't get these generation gaps.* Stay strong buddy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I believe most of our generation struggles with this but this is the new reality.



Chaparral said:


> It took you seven months to tell her you loved her and it took her eight months?
> 
> So what's the problem?
> 
> ...


Again, confusing.

As I see it, the real issue here is perspective. For most, our "old school" perspective sees this as in fact cheating and deceitful. I am not sure that the youth see it that way until/if they grow enough to see and understand what we see and understand. Perhaps at that time, in her mind, she was culturally correct in her behavior but as she matured and now sees things from a different perspective, her views changed. I personally do not feel that this necessarily indicates a latent personality trait but rather a cultural misguidance. When in Rome as it were.

As our morals and values as a culture continue this rapid decline our "old school" perspective will become more and more at odds with our new reality.

OP indicated that he "kept coming back" even at the chagrin of his friends. He had to know that something was amiss. If she had told him then would it have ended his pursuit? No way to know but we do know that her "cold shoulder" did not dissuade him.

Again, the reason I do not see this as an insurmountable issue is due to our current culture and its lax views on sex and how that spills over into the thought process of our young people. I feel we are doing a great disservice to our youth but it is the way society is moving.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> Infidelity?
> 
> Seriously?
> 
> ...


Anon that is very myopic of you. People don't share your personal opinion so they can't possibly be helpful? 

I was much more of a hardliner than OP when dating and far less merciful about deception, concealing, omitting important information like how many people a woman was fvcking at the same time.

You, apparently, didn't care how many unless a disclaimer or statement was made. Was that your experience?

Either way. We are not OP. I would not be with a woman like OPs wife.

I require a woman who has her act together more in the exclusivity department. You're the other end of the spectrum on this and apparently were a lot looser on this issue in your relationships.

Again, there is no rule book on this either way.

OP isn't as far to one side as me and not as far to the other as you.

I'm interested to hear why so much passion comes from you on this particular issue.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

NoChoice. I was a male slvt while dating. I had sex without even a first date all the time but was never sexual with more than one during the same time ever.

My mom was worse than me. My children are more conservative in that department than I was.

I don't necessarily believe sex is becoming more casual across the board.

I am currently counseling one of my former students who waited until marriage for sex.

She did it from her own rule book. She wasn't influenced from outside her own convictions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Gottodeal2. Your story does have apparent inconsistencies.

At first you only saw her 3-4 times a month?

Was it later that you were seeing her 3 times a week?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

That sucks. Bet the other guy lost interest in her. Thats why she suddenly went from emotionally detached/unavailabe to in love. But just sounds like something you're going to have to get over and learn from if you ever do date again in the future. At least the marriage sounds good I guess.


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## Daniel. (Jan 14, 2015)

There's a movie i've watched called Last Vegas, the main character Paddy and Billy fancied the same woman but later she "chose" Paddy over Billy. Even after she passed away Paddy had refused to date anyone. Later Paddy figured out that the girl loved Billy more but he "won" was because Billy told the girl to be with Paddy because he led a far more stable life and seemed to be in love with that girl. Well, bummer for Paddy he was the 2nd choice, the safe choice all along, 40 years of marriage suddenly turned into a lie. 

I hope that she truly loves you not simply because of the stability but because of who you are, truly sees the good in you not simply what you could provide for her. Don't end up like Paddy man, that sucks. 

If i were you i'd be wondering why she chose you or as other posters said "you won". Isn't that wonderful, you didn't even know that you were in a competition, you prize is a two timer


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Morals, character, beliefs, and respect all need a key ingredient to mean anything to yourself. My parents taught me that key, taught me how to live life as a contributing member to society. As a teen I didn't have this key, instead I was well on my way to prison. But the key is VALUE. 

Do you value your morals? Do you value your character? Do you value your beliefs? Do you value respecting others, even if they don't deserve respect? I do, I waited until marriage for intimacy. Intimacy to me is giving a part of yourself to the person you are intimate with. My value for intimacy is very high, and you never just give it away. That is my belief, the way that I am wired. I am so passionate about this because OP's wife wasn't, and because my WW wasn't. 

OP seems to have value on intimacy also since this is bothering him enough to come to a forum such as this. He has found an email explaining why his wife, then girlfriend, was distant during the beginning of their relationship. OP believes his wife should have been honest with him prior to marriage. I believe OP is right about this. This much we know to be fact. 

There is a discrepancy in the first of how much time was spent together of OP and his wife. I took it as they dated three to four times a month. So how long is the "beginning" two, three, four months? I would say the beginning is no longer then four months. OP says they saw each three times a week. At six and a half months OP told his wife he was falling in love with her. Which would make sense, the more time spent together the more you develop feelings. 

Op's wife however, has been dating OM this entire time. At eight months wife ends the relationship with OM. Were OM and OP's wife exclusive? Perhaps the wife couldn't say I love you to OP as she was exclusive to OM. We don't know, but OP said things were "amiss". OP's wife broke down and admitted to the OM, she regrets not telling OP sooner. In my opinion OP's wife knew they were "exclusive" or she wouldn't regret OM. If it was just simple dating she would tell OP that OM is none of his business, but she hasn't. Why?

We all have either assumed or taken a stance that it is or isn't infidelity. Based upon who I am, I consider this to be infidelity. Based on OP's posts I think he considers this to be infidelity. Based upon the wife's reactions posted by OP, she considers it infidelity. You don't "break down" or "regret" dating someone unless you knew it was wrong. 

I still say OP and his wife need MC, as this has brought to light other failings plaguing the marriage. Communication is one of the top items, then infidelity, and then trust. I say trust as OP has spoken to his wife, but then came here as he now has issues. 

OP I wish you the best, this is fixable, so get to work on it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Daniel. said:


> There's a movie i've watched called Last Vegas, the main character Paddy and Billy fancied the same woman but later she "chose" Paddy over Billy. Even after she passed away Paddy had refused to date anyone. Later Paddy figured out that the girl loved Billy more but he "won" was because Billy told the girl to be with Paddy because he led a far more stable life and seemed to be in love with that girl. Well, bummer for Paddy he was the 2nd choice, the safe choice all along, 40 years of marriage suddenly turned into a lie.
> 
> I hope that she truly loves you not simply because of the stability but because of who you are, truly sees the good in you not simply what you could provide for her. Don't end up like Paddy man, that sucks.
> 
> If i were you i'd be wondering why she chose you or as other posters said "you won". Isn't that wonderful, you didn't even know that you were in a competition, you prize is a two timer


I too saw that movie and you're missing the ending. True he did initially feel like the safe choice but then he says that he knew her heart and you can't tell a woman like that who to be with, so if she'd really wanted to be with the other guy she would have. 

Great movie.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

I would have to come down on the side of others who have said let it go and move on. On the surface this seems trivial, but I understand why it means a lot to the OP. I hate to be brutally honest, but it sounds like he was the number 2 option until the OM was no longer interested or perhaps didn't want a LTR that led to marriage.

If she is a good girl who stuck with you during some trying times after you were married, that speaks well to her character. We are all capable of change:grin2:.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I disagree that he was necessarily the number 2 option. How does anyone know that? If he was the number 1 option how would you know that? You can only know that if OM actually dumped her which we don't know.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> I disagree that he was necessarily the number 2 option. How does anyone know that? If he was the number 1 option how would you know that? You can only know that if OM actually dumped her which we don't know.


That's the rub isn't it? Would the OP's wife ever admit it even if it was true? 

There is still a lot of this story that is unclear and contradictory. It sounded like from the beginning the OP and his wife saw each other 3 - 4 days a week...at least 3 days a week regularly. That's different than 3-4 days a month, so not sure which one is correct.


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

When people show you who they are through their actions, it's important to believe them. Married life has been blissful, no real tough moments yet. As I said, character is what we do when the situation is bad AND no one is looking. MC will help with boundaries, but only IC can get to the source of a character defect. You and your wife know the defect is there. Maybe it will never be triggered again ... That's what the rugsweepers are telling you to bet on. I would ask the question, What is it that stopped you from telling me about the other relationship? I imagine her answer will be something like. .... I feared losing you. Recall how AnonPink responded to this thread... She stopped seeing a man until he dropped the other partner. Your wife denied you this choice by withholding the information. Are you OK with knowing your wife will make decisions that affect you without your consent? Only you can answer this question.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

What was her reaction to you confessing your love?

Questionable morals on her part as stated earlier. If nothing else, she was leading you on from month 6.5 to 8 while she was making the choice. Begs the question - what would you have done if you'd found out that she wasn't as serious about the relationship as you were?

If it was me who'd found out something like that was happening while we were dating or if I was serious and she was still shopping around, I would have walked away, no questions asked.

But hey "In the end you won". First Prize for you. Question is whether you were your wife's first prize or just the consolation prize. Fat chance she's going to say the latter. Good luck there.

I don't think this situation merits divorce but you're going to spend a lot of nights thinking what if. Read some books, do some marriage counselling - it might help.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> Gottodeal2. Your story does have apparent inconsistencies.
> 
> At first you only saw her 3-4 times a month?
> 
> ...


He provides just enough information to invoke projections and debate.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Some of us see her actions as dishonest, some of us see her actions as clearly cheating, some of us are relying on a technicality of social protocol and see her actions as neither dishonest nor cheating. Regardless of what we all think about this situation, OP is fully entitled to feel the way he does. He has the right to feel he was cheated. He has the right to judge her actions as less honest than he prefers. Because he sees it this way, he needs to find a way to get to a real resolution. He can't just "suck it up" or "put it in the past". Someday she will do something else which triggers him back to this. Things will be worse than they are now.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Thundarr said:


> He provides just enough information to invoke projections and debate.


And he still hasn't answered my questions about the timeline. I'm starting to wonder if this old boy majored in Drama.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Where's Waldo?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> Where's Waldo?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Frazier.....has left the building.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

Thundarr said:


> He provides just enough information to invoke projections and debate.


Yes!

I have to say that some of the responding posts have me shaking my head though. I have to admit I wonder if they would be different if the genders in the story were switched. I have a feeling it would be of the "it's okay for men to spin plates" variety.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

soccermom2three said:


> Yes!
> 
> I have to say that some of the responding posts have me shaking my head though. I have to admit I wonder if they would be different if the genders in the story were switched. I have a feeling it would be of the "it's okay for men to spin plates" variety.




Not for me, you switch the gender I'd be just as angry. Male or female you only date one person at a time. Especially for the length of eight months.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

I fail to understand the reference to winning. If OP is married to a woman that he sees as virtuous and honorable, is that not what we all were striving for? Is the "this will come back to bite him" argument really applicable? Some of us married what we thought were virtuous, honest and chaste women and we were bitten never having "exposed" any closet skeletons prior to our event.





drifting on said:


> Morals, character, beliefs, and respect all need a key ingredient to mean anything to yourself. My parents taught me that key, taught me how to live life as a contributing member to society. *As a teen I didn't have this key, instead I was well on my way to prison*. But the key is VALUE.
> 
> Do you value your morals? Do you value your character? Do you value your beliefs? Do you value respecting others, even if they don't deserve respect? *I do, I waited until marriage for intimacy. Intimacy to me is giving a part of yourself to the person you are intimate with. My value for intimacy is very high, and you never just give it away. That is my belief, the way that I am wired*. I am so passionate about this because OP's wife wasn't, and because my WW wasn't.
> 
> ...


We can argue that people are unaffected by societal change until we are too aged to type anymore but as the above quote expresses, DO was without his value early on and then adopted/learned/found/rediscovered his value later on and seems to demonstrate, through his posts, character, integrity and a sense of honor. Is she to be denied that opportunity? 

Possibly her epiphany was delayed in coming or perhaps she had to self discover in the absence of parents such as DO's, we do not know but I find it arrogant that we so emphatically declare her present character to be a certain way based on these events alone.

Our society places little emphasis on what DO calls "value". If it feels good do it has become our cultural slogan. Some argue this and that is your right but I find it to be abundantly true.

I too place a very high value on intimacy and have since a young age. I realized the importance of it beyond "feeling good" for the moment and considered it to be more than just a casual leisure time activity like bowling or darts. I was in the minority, a very small minority, among people my age at the time but it mattered to me. Was I wrong since many, many of my peers were indulging in the activity? Were they? 

I find it curious that we can assert our current opinions and beliefs without even considering what society deems "normal" at this time and the influence that imposes on our youth. Societal norms are the only gauge that many people have to guide them today considering how parenting has diminished over the years. This point will be also argued by some but again, to me it is the inescapable conclusion I arrive at given the conditions of our culture today.

Are some so staunchly convinced that theirs is the only "right" conclusion, to the point of suggesting the end of a marriage? I am not.

If we refuse to accept that a person's understanding and perception changes as they age and mature and that they are guided by new "values" as their knowledge base increases then there can be no rehabilitation possible. Counseling, therapy, prison, none of these can have any effect if the person is incapable of growth. I agree some do fall into this category but some do not. If it were not so then these forms of rehabilitation would have long since been abandoned as ineffective and futile.

Some are basing her "guilt" on her assumed understanding that their relationship was exclusive within the context she understood exclusive to be at the time. 

Additionally, some are assuming that the OP was her plan B but I see it differently. I see a young woman who meets two guys around the same time. As she "dates" them both she feels a stronger connection with the OM and gives OP the cold shoulder, since she feels more for the OM. However she still sees something in OP that she cannot readily dismiss. As she continues to see them she becomes more and more unsure. Over time OP announces his love for her and by this time she is actually very much doubting her initial assumption about OM. As a little more time passes she concludes that it is actually OP and not OM that she truly cares for and she discontinues her association with OM.

I do not see 8 months as an exorbitant amount of time in which to make a decision that she will live with for the rest of her life. And, if society did not indicate that she sexually satiate her suitors, and herself, then this situation would have never occurred and this post would not exist and I would have had to have found something else to do for the last 40 minutes.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

lifeistooshort said:


> I disagree that he was necessarily the number 2 option. How does anyone know that? If he was the number 1 option how would you know that? You can only know that if OM actually dumped her which we don't know.


Real number 1 options mean that everybody else is in last place and summarily dumped.

They were both #2.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

soccermom2three said:


> Yes!
> 
> I have to say that some of the responding posts have me shaking my head though. I have to admit I wonder if they would be different if the genders in the story were switched. I have a feeling it would be of the "it's okay for men to spin plates" variety.


Please.

Single people out who are proven hypocrites on this subject and address them.

Starting a war of the sexes over this is not only inaccurate but unhelpful.

Man here and I am actually biased in favor of women who are betrayed over men.

Two timers all suck in my book regardless of gender. I advise more women to flat out leave unfaithful men than vice versa.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> I disagree that he was necessarily the number 2 option. How does anyone know that? If he was the number 1 option how would you know that? You can only know that if OM actually dumped her which we don't know.


She would have ridden the wave as long as it lasted. 

The other guy dumped her. That's the only reason it stopped. The OM probably found out she was two timing him with the OP so he dumped her duplicitous azz. 

No one just walks away from a good thing like she had unless it soured.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

soccermom2three said:


> Yes!
> 
> I have to say that some of the responding posts have me shaking my head though. I have to admit I wonder if they would be different if the genders in the story were switched. I have a feeling it would be of the "it's okay for men to spin plates" variety.


Yea I'm sure the comments and advice would be different based on gender. The way comments and advice are interpreted would also be different. Projection can be subtle and conformation bias doesn't help.


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## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

bandit.45 said:


> She would have ridden the wave as long as it lasted.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



In order to move on from this, this is definitely one of the critical pieces of info that OP is going o need to ascertain.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Man has this thread turned into a lightning rod of sorts.

I'm at a bit of a loss to understand why.

No....it wasn't cheating, they weren't in a committed relationship.

No....dating more that one person isn't wrong if the relationship is casual....though I do think it is a little obnoxious not to share with your sexual partners that you are being active with others...its a health issue IMO.

Yes....once OP expressed that he loved her and wanted a more serious relationship, she OWED him an honest revelation of the situation so HE had the info to make a choice on whether to continue to pursue her because he loved her, or to refuse to continue because she had feelings for another guy she was also seeing and she was unsure of what she wanted.

At this point she was under no obligation to give him an answer or commitment immediately....she had a right to be unsure of what she wanted and all the time she needed to figure that out.

What I don't like about the deception she did was its pure selfishness....she knew the score, and wanted to keep her options open til she knew which man she preferred.

But she DENIED him the same right to make an informed decision by hiding the other bf....completely sh*tty and selfish decision IMO.

No....I don't think OP should D or turn this into a massive crisis in his M based on the following info he has stated.

OP says she has been loyal and supportive in their short M.

OP says she has not been selfish in the M, and she admits with remorse and guilt that she was wrong to deny him the facts at the time.

OP says the M is very good and happy for them both.

Yes....I would advise OP to consider this as more serious and maybe a dealbreaker if his W was displaying selfish or entitled behavior in the M.

IMO that would be too much of a risk that she would return to her capacity for dishonest and selfish decision making when the M hits a rough patch, as every M eventually does....in other words she would be a huge A risk IMO if she still was selfish and entitled in the M, and he should consider getting out beforehand if she would not make changes.

Yes....OP should discuss how upset he is that she made this selfish choice in the past....and he and she should come to a clear understanding that not only was it dead wrong, but she can never again act similarly if their M goes through a difficult time....if an MC would help them to resolve this clearly and calmly, they should seek the help of a counselor.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

Dyokemm said:


> Man has this thread turned into a lightning rod of sorts.
> 
> I'm at a bit of a loss to understand why.
> 
> ...


^^OP, take heed.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

One thing for sure.. This will be the one of the FIRST questions I bring up when meeting someone..

This is how I am going to address it.. 

What I would *LIKE* is a monogamous relationship.. But I clearly understand that sometime you want to keep your options open for whatever reason.. So I get it..

But what I *NEED* is *HONESTY*.. 

If you want to date others, not a problem.. But I need you to be honest about it.. I am being up front that I never dated more than one person in my life.. I don't even know if I can.. For right now in my life you are more than enough for me.. I have enough going on that dating more than one woman would be too much.. 

But if I decide to do so and let us say 3 or 4 months down the line this person request to be exclusive.. I am going to take them up on the offer and I will let you know we are through.. But I am gonna be honest I see no reason to tell you or give you a heads up to make a decision, because if you wanted this the day before someone else asked me, you would have told me the day before.. 

So I am making it clear that its probably will NOT happen because it's not in me, but if it does I'm being HONEST about what I want up front and how I look at this sort of thing.. 

When you mulitdate you are pretty much taking a chance and you have to expect these things.. Because I am going to expect them coming from you.. 

Granted this is not exactly how it will go.. But I will bring this up.. Because I'm not gonna deal with this sort of sh!t for sure.. I'm gonna be crystal clear on what I would like and need from the start..


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Hardtohandle said:


> What I would *LIKE* is a monogamous relationship.. But I clearly understand that sometime you want to keep your options open for whatever reason.. So I get it..
> 
> But what I *NEED* is *HONESTY*..
> 
> If you want to date others, not a problem.. But I need you to be honest about it...


I think this is the lesson to be learned as well. No assumptions and no fear of saying what you/we/he/etc want.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

This thread is a perfect example of why the concept of "the exclusive relationship talk" should be part of talking to your kids about sex & relationships.

To some, having sex means you're exclusive (yes, those people exist still). To others, you're not exclusive until you both have that chat. Where people run into trouble is where one of the former gets into a relationship with the latter. One thinks things are exclusive, and the other does not and that's where the heartbreak happens.

Point out to your kids that you should have the conversation of their view on "exclusive" and make the decision to become intimate based on what you're comfortable with.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

I guess I'm just very, very old fashioned. Not saying anybody is right or wrong, it all depends on how you are raised and where you place value, morals, character, and integrity. After I graduated high school I met two women, both were beautiful, great personalities, and great sense of humors. In my mind I chose who I would ask on a date, not date both. We dated for about three months before she moved with her family. Point is I could have asked either or both to dates, but I CHOSE one. OP's wife had that choice also, but her and I are not the same and obviously have different beliefs. I will raise my twin boys the same as I. Well, ok, minus my bad period.... Which I wonder when it will end.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Icey181 (Apr 16, 2015)

Why would anyone assume that a person who hides the fact that she is having sex with two people at once for months on end would be completely honest during an "I want to be exclusive" talk?

I think Dyokemm summed up the way to go on this one.

While it was not technically cheating (really? technicalities?) it was deceitful, deceptive, and selfish.

And those actions helped form the basis of the relationship.

OP has a right to feel slighted and concerned over those actions, be angry for a while, etc etc.

What I find interesting is the number of posters who defended _her_ apparent right to string two men along for as long as she could…how do you _not_ feel like Plan B in that situation?


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## Icey181 (Apr 16, 2015)

drifting on said:


> I guess I'm just very, very old fashioned. Not saying anybody is right or wrong, it all depends on how you are raised and where you place value, morals, character, and integrity. After I graduated high school I met two women, both were beautiful, great personalities, and great sense of humors. In my mind I chose who I would ask on a date, not date both. We dated for about three months before she moved with her family. Point is I could have asked either or both to dates, but I CHOSE one. OP's wife had that choice also, but her and I are not the same and obviously have different beliefs. I will raise my twin boys the same as I. Well, ok, minus my bad period.... Which I wonder when it will end.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And if you dated both and had sex with both women for months, and one of them came to TAM to complain about her "two-timing boyfriend" I am certain Pink would totally have your back…so long as no exclusivity agreement was reached….


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

As BS we are telling other BS to watch actions not words. My question is, during those eight months what did her actions say?

Answer: PLAN B
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Icey181 said:


> And if you dated both and had sex with both women for months, and one of them came to TAM to complain about her "two-timing boyfriend" I am certain Pink would totally have your back…so long as no exclusivity agreement was reached….




I'm sure they would have their fair share of followers, whether right or wrong. Sorry I have to run, I have to begin drafting the exclusivity and consequence of promiscuity contracts for when my sons begin to date.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

The problem is not that she was dating multiple guys. 

The problem is that she didn't disclose this when they became serious. And certainly before they married. 

Which is also illuminating about what she thinks about both guys, and perhaps relationships in general.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

OP (if you ever come back):

In my last post I said you were dealing with two issues (summarised):

1: Whether you were exclusive or not (technical discussion)

2: Whether what she did was acceptable i.e. the actions of a "good person" (exclusive or not)

There seems to be a third discussion now brewing:

3: Were you Plan B i.e. did she choose you because he dumped her.

Now if 1 and 3 were answered to say (1) you were exclusive and (3) you were clearly plan B, then (2) would be a moot point.

However, whatever the answers to (1) and (3) are you need to understand that the answer to (2) is that she is NOT a good person. She may make a perfect wife now technically but in her moral fibre/structure she has no remorse for sleeping with others while sleeping with you and not telling you, and then keeping it from you until well after you were married.

Sure people can date as many as they want as long as it is clear to all and sundry that they are all free agents and then your only worry would be was she practicing safe sex.

However you pursued her and she kept you dangling for a long time and then SUDDENLY switched to you - you gotta ask why. You had not been doing anything different all this time. Hence the question of Plan B came up. And none of this are the actions of a "good" person (as you keep saying she is) even if technically it was not cheating or you two were not exclusive.

So stop saying that she is a good person. She has been a good wife (technically) and that doesn't mean that she is a good person. This side of her could resurface when it best suits her interests.


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## Icey181 (Apr 16, 2015)

That is actually the point of dating.

You are supposed to be with someone long enough to learn what kind of person they are, to know you can trust them, and to know they prioritize you and your needs in the same way you clearly prioritize her and hers. 

You need to know they will be _honest_ with you and see you as an _equal_.

Your wife at the time decided that she was going to deny you the right to know what was going on (rejection of both honesty and equality in the relationship) and was holding another man in reserve in case she liked him better (not prioritizing you or your needs/feelings).

I was not kidding when I said that, if I found out my wife was secretly sleeping with a potential Plan A during our courtship, it would likely end my marriage.

The issues that this bring up are too numerous and serious to cast aside on a supposed "technicality."

She lied to you, first for 8-months and then for years.
She slept with you _and someone else_, without your knowledge.
She was clearly weighing her options.

I would have an issue trusting that I was not Plan B at this point and, honestly, I doubt she will ever tell you the truth about the other relationship.

Her goal at this point is to protect the marriage, which means assuaging your ego.

Personally, I would not be certain anything she told me about it now was the truth.

Which would mean honesty and trust in the marriage would be seriously damaged.

It is an issue that needs to be dealt with by working through it.

Rug-sweeping always ends poorly.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Icey181 said:


> That is actually the point of dating.
> 
> You are supposed to be with someone long enough to learn what kind of person they are, to know you can trust them, and to know they prioritize you and your needs in the same way you clearly prioritize her and hers.
> 
> ...





Hence the reason to date only one person at a time. How can you make a decision when you only date one but the other is playing the field. Do you have the "exclusivity conversation" on the first date?? How do you date two people but give them all of you? How do you decide the time spent? If she dated OP three to four times a month in the beginning what time was OM getting? Three to four nights a week? What if OP never found the email? What if he finds it in ten years? Twenty years? If I were you OP I'd find the OM, ask him how it ended.


OP you need to talk with your wife, you need MC, you need to work this out now. It is fixable.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

The way I look at it, both these men were Plan B. I really do think she was going to ride it out and see which guy would stick around the longest. The OM, whether he found out she was cheating on him with the OP or he just got bored with her, was as much a fallback as the OP. 

You know, women have done this throughout history: where a woman is the the prize and several men are competing for her. Correct me if I am wrong, but in Edwardian and Victorian times, a young lady, especially one from a wealthy family, would often have several "suitors" who would compete for her hand. The only difference was there was usually no premarital sex going on. But I would imagine that most of those women would be up front with their beaus and tell them who they were competing against. IT was an open contest. Hell, why do you think men in those days fought so much and had "duels of honor"?


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

drifting on said:


> Hence the reason to date only one person at a time. How can you make a decision when you only date one but the other is playing the field. Do you have the "exclusivity conversation" on the first date?? How do you date two people but give them all of you? How do you decide the time spent? If she dated OP three to four times a month in the beginning what time was OM getting? Three to four nights a week? What if OP never found the email? What if he finds it in ten years? Twenty years? If I were you OP I'd find the OM, ask him how it ended.
> 
> 
> OP you need to talk with your wife, you need MC, you need to work this out now. It is fixable.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I've dated multiple women many times. 

After the first time having sex I always told them about that, and asked if they were sleeping with someone else. 

I just figured they had a right to know health-wise. And I did, too. 

Having sex means being a grown up, and being a grown up means having to have grown up conversations and make grown up decisions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

If the OP was seeing his future wife, 3 times a week, I do find it difficult that she would find time to see someone else, that is on top of : School / work; family; friends.

OP, did you regularly see her on Saturday nights?
When did the two of you start staying over at either's place after a date? Was it regular? Or at least regular on the weekends?


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

bandit.45 said:


> The way I look at it, both these men were Plan B. I really do think she was going to ride it out and see which guy would stick around the longest. The OM, whether he found out she was cheating on him with the OP or he just got bored with her, was as much a fallback as the OP.
> 
> You know, women have done this throughout history: where a woman is the the prize and several men are competing for her. Correct me if I am wrong, but in Edwardian and Victorian times, a young lady, especially one from a wealthy family, would often have several "suitors" who would compete for her hand. The only difference was there was usually no premarital sex going on. But I would imagine that most of those women would be up front with their beaus and tell them who they were competing against. IT was an open contest. Hell, why do you think men in those days fought so much and had "duels of honor"?


Like I said, if she was actually sure about being into either one of them, she would have dumped the other. 

She was likely shopping for a different plan A, and one didn't show up, so she took the next best choice. 

And that sucks and I'm sorry. 

I've been plan b. I've been a beta orbiter. And I've been an accidental plan A - and seen other guys summarily dumped for what I saw was a fling. 

Plan As don't have competition from what I've experienced.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

marduk said:


> She was likely shopping for a different plan A, and one didn't show up, so she took the next best choice.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hey that is a third possibility I did not think about. Good point.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Waldo????
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gottodeal2 (Jul 24, 2015)

If I'm honest with myself and the situation, I know we were not serious until eight months. I thought we were exclusively dating but to say we were serious, talking about moving in, marriage etc .. No. We didn't get serious 

The timeline of events are pretty clear, I'm sorry if I didnt. Make it clear, I skipped words when I write:

We saw each 2-3 times a week for the first three or four months of dating. I also went on a few dates with other girls, but liked her more. She met both of us within two weeks or so, she says

After four months, we see each 3-4 times, she begins opening up more. Still dating other guy. Around six months, I tell ily and she doesn't say it back.

Eight months of dating, she ends it with other guy and then finally says ily. We move on after a year, engaged after 1.5 and we will celebrate our 2 year this summer.

She has supported me through my health problems, Im finally Healthy and then find this out. Before this, I never had a clue.

I went through the emotional torture of reading every single facebook message, he didn't know and she ended it. 

The part that really bothers me is the fact she didn't disclose this earlier. She kept it from me. She is remorseful and we've been talking about it and she says, she was torn for while and then had trouble dumping him when she realized she was in love with me. Why it took her so long to realize? Eight months - her answer is only she was torn and she buried the guilt she had for a long time. 

Like I said, it's not even what she's done. That I can forgive. It's the fact she never told me thats torturing me right now. She is a good person and she has supported me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

You and her still have not been together very long. You are still in the honeymoon phase. You have a chance at leading a good, honest life together, but in order to get past this you have to be objective. You have to hold her accountable. 

The alarming thing I believe you should consider is that you had to find all this out on your own. She had no intention of ever telling you about the other guy. She just got sloppy and did not delete his e-mails. Had you not found out, she would have taken this secret to her grave. Now...what does this say about her veracity and integrity? 

Yeah I think it's sweet and heartwarming that she felt all shameful and guilty while she was doing both of you at the same time, but why wasn't her guilt great enough to end it with him sooner and come clean with you? You need to ask her this. Make her do an autopsy on her actions. Don't let her use fear and guilt as an excuse for stringing you along for so long. She was getting something out of this triangle that was feeding whatever need she has. My guess is she craves validation...specifically male validation, that feeds whatever self-esteem issues she may have. That is scary, because this kind of craving is what leads many men and women into serial cheating down the road. You need to confront her hard on this, and if it is the case, then she needs therapy and counseling to turn this around. 

Yes we get she has been a good wife to you but you need to avoid the temptation of putting her up on a pedestal. Having a healthy relationship means seeing your partner objectively, not as some ethereal goddess who is without blemish and can do no wrong. You acknowledge their weaknesses and shortcomings, you judge whether your temperament can absorb and deflect those shortcomings, and you move on with them, all the while doing your best to facilitate them in dealing with those shortcomings.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

Gottodeal2 said:


> I thought we were exclusively dating but to say we were serious, talking about moving in, marriage etc .. No. We didn't get serious
> 
> The timeline of events are pretty clear, I'm sorry if I didnt. Make it clear, I skipped words when I write:
> 
> ...


Soo, WTF did she do ? 

WTF are you talking about.. 

Holy sh!t talk about double standards... So you could go out on *SEVERAL* dates but she couldn't just date *ONE* guy.. 

I'm lost in this 20 year old kid sh!t honestly.. 



> I thought we were exclusively dating but to say we were serious, talking about moving in, marriage etc .. No. We didn't get serious


WTF does this even mean.. I mean I get it but it is so utterly fvcking retarded.. 

Does it matter if you were serious or not.. Serious have ZERO to do with exclusivity.. 

Grow the fvck up.. You have the mentality of a kid.. I mean I thought I was insecure, but it took my wife of 20 years to go out and fvck a guy and come home.. I get why I'm insecure, but even I learn to accept and deal with my issues.. 

But YOU.. Holy Crap.. 

Your wife did nothing.. Say you're sorry for being and insecure a$$hole.. You really stirred sh!t up for nothing. .You better hope someone with smarts doesn't call you out on this sh!t because you really do look like a little A$$hole now and some sort of cry baby.. 

You're upset because she had some d!ck on the side and you didn't ? 

Please don't come back and say you were having sex with these other women in the form of a one night stand because you will look even more foolish..

I mean really.. You're just upset that she was fvcking some other guy and you never knew about it.. But YOU WERE NOT EXCLUSIVE AND YOU SAID IT YOURSELF... She doesn't have to tell you, Sorry can't make it tonight I need to go fvck billy... Its her fvcking business.. 

IF...IF....IF...IF... And one more time.. IF you were EXCLUSIVE THEN you would have a issue.. BUT YOU WEREN'T SO YOU DON'T.....


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

More info is good.

Did she know you were dating others?

This sort of just moved out of my own definition of infidelity and into just sneaky and a bit manipulative.

If you both go through some counseling and you spell out your feelings and hurt, she can have opportunities to help you through it and you both can establish boundaries and lines of essential communication so there is never a repeat of deception like this, in any arena, again.

Take some time to yourself, cool off and let your emotions get more peaceful. 

Are you suffering from replaying the messages you read between them?

Are you trying to piece together what she was doing with him while she was dating you? Especially in the final.months?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I didn't catch the part where you said you were dating others too. Well, thanks for making me wast my time dude. 

Now I say...get the fvck over it and move on. She made mistakes, you made mistakes, live and learn...blah blah blah...

You are both infants.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Dawg, you don't have a clue when it comes to women. When you are not serious, you're not exclusively dating and she's going to be open to guys who are serious. She was keeping her option open with the other guy and I don't blame her. Moreover, if you're not serious, why should she ditch the other guy, who may be "Mr. Right", for you? You had no more right to stake a claim on this chick than the other guy or anybody else. Only she can make the call on whether she commits to you. 
Hopefully you'll never need this advice but you never want to be the first one to say, "I love you". Think of it like this. If she was holding the end of a rope she want to keep that may slip through her hands, she's going to hold on tighter. When you say I love you long before she does, she doesn't need to strain herself gripping the rope. Maybe the reason she didn't splain the other guy.
But hell Dawg, if you want to F-up your marriage jerking around the one who has been, what appears, as a good wife, because your worrying about her long past dates, let er rip. Others have been just as dumb so youre not by yourself. To me, you got her boy and from what you say, she's a good wife.


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## Justinian (Mar 7, 2015)

Gottodeal2 said:


> ... I think she should of told me before we got serious.
> 
> ... Besides this, she has never given me reason to doubt her and like I posted earlier, she has stuck by me through some very difficult ordeals. I will never doubt her heart. I know she's a good person.





Justinian said:


> Yes, she should have, but she didn't. She would probably handle it differently if given a "do over".
> 
> Now forget about it and enjoy your life together.





ConanHub said:


> Your advice is really bad!
> 
> Just telling someone to forget sexual betrayal is stupid.





Justinian said:


> In my opinion, it's a mistake to make too much of this.
> 
> From what I read, it doesn't look that much like a betrayal.
> 
> And I think if his wife had seen it as such at the time, she would have taken steps to remove all evidence ...






Gottodeal2 said:


> ... If I'm honest with myself and the situation, I know we were not serious until eight months. I thought we were exclusively dating but to say we were serious, talking about moving in, marriage etc .. No. We didn't get serious
> 
> ... Eight months of dating, she ends it with other guy and then finally says ily. We move on after a year, engaged after 1.5 and we will celebrate our 2 year this summer.





ConanHub said:


> ... This sort of just moved out of my own definition of infidelity and into just sneaky and a bit manipulative.





bandit.45 said:


> I didn't catch the part where you said you were dating others too. Well, thanks for making me wast my time dude.
> 
> Now I say...get the fvck over it and move on. She made mistakes, you made mistakes, live and learn...blah blah blah...
> 
> You are both infants.


I think this is a good point at which to rest my case.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

So basically you lied to us and she lied to you....you screwed with our honest advise to help you and she screwed around with you with another guy...am i missing something....i wish you both best of luck.


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## Gottodeal2 (Jul 24, 2015)

I went on two dates within two weeks we met. Not more. You guys are villainizing me, when I didn't stick my d*** in another girl at all after we met. Two very casual dates. I didn't like them, I liked my wife. While, she was screwing a guy for eight months and not telling me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Gottodeal2 said:


> I went on two dates within two weeks we met. Not more. You guys are villainizing me, when I didn't stick my d*** in another girl at all after we met. Two very casual dates. I didn't like them, I liked my wife. While, she was screwing a guy for eight months and not telling me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You two might benefit from some counseling.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Seriously...how old are you and your wife?


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

Gottodeal2 said:


> I went on two dates within two weeks we met. Not more. You guys are villainizing me, when I didn't stick my d*** in another girl at all after we met. Two very casual dates. I didn't like them, I liked my wife. While, she was screwing a guy for eight months and not telling me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You can say that her not telling you about her doubling up on BFs is what's bothering you, not the sex.

But you know full well that you are wondering if she ever had sex with him one night and you the next. Or, sex with him in an afternoon and you that night.

If she did, I understand why she never told you about her duel-dating phase. Think about it. If she had sex with you on a 3x a week average and with the other BF for a 3x a week average. Then she was having sex for a 6x a week average. She wouldn't want to have to tell you about this.

Just imagine if she was having sex with the other BF more than she was with you the entire 8 months...


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Justinian said:


> Yes, she should have, but she didn't. She would probably handle it differently if given a "do over".
> 
> Now forget about it and enjoy your life together.


Calling him stupid for possibly throwing away a good marriage in your earlier post, something OP has stated he is not doing, and this quote is what caused me to call your advice bad.

This quote is very bad advice.

OP has also stated that it is the deception throughout their entire relationship about the other man that bothers him, not jealousy.

There have been several people posting about jealousy and even retroactive jealousy and there isn't evidence that is what OP is experiencing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Gottodeal2 said:


> I went on two dates within two weeks we met. Not more. You guys are villainizing me, when I didn't stick my d*** in another girl at all after we met. Two very casual dates. I didn't like them, I liked my wife. While, she was screwing a guy for eight months and not telling me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Is it the deception that bothers you the most or is it jealousy?

I can't really call it RJ because she was doing another man the same time she was doing you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sparrow555 (Jun 27, 2015)

She is a good person

She is a good person

She is a good person

She is a good person

She is a good person

Anything else OP ?


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

OP, I too don't understand what you want to get here ?

She lied about it and that is what seems to get to you. So are liars good people - NO! So she is not a good person.


Add to this:

Is it considered good behaviour to sleep with multiple partners over an extended period of time without them knowing that this might even be a possibility - NO. So she is not a good person.


Is it possible that she could be a good wife after that - yes. In her mind, is it a possibility that you would not have married her if she had told you (even if you know that you would have) - yes. Therefore in her mind she didn't tell you because she wanted to make sure that did not happen. Is this the action of a good person - NO! So she is not a good person.

See many reasons to say she is not a good person and with every bad (not good) person there is a possibility that this bad behaviour may resurface. That is all we are saying.

However, you appear to really love her to the point of overlooking all of this and, according to you, she has been a good wife (so far).

So what do you want out of this ? Maybe (as a starter for 10) what you want is for her to acknowledge that what she did was wrong and be truly remorseful about it. Talk to her, tell her this, and if she agrees then move on. If she is truly remorseful and she gets it, then ask her what she is doing to make sure this never happens again.


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## Justinian (Mar 7, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> Calling him stupid for possibly throwing away a good marriage in your earlier post, something OP has stated he is not doing, and this quote is what caused me to call your advice bad.
> 
> This quote is very bad advice.


And I repeat, it's bad advice *in your opinion*.

I did not call him stupid. I said it would be a stupid move (in my opinion) to lose all perspective and let this thing eat at him until it ruins his relationship, a marriage that he seems to be quite happy with at this point.

The details are not perfectly clear, but apparently it was the OP who thought the relationship was exclusive at the beginning, and she did or said nothing to confirm that. Once she fell in love with the OP she stopped all contact with the other man and committed totally to him. If I were him I'd be happy about how things worked out.

However, it's obvious he's having trouble processing this, so I again recommend him getting help before things get worse.


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## Justinian (Mar 7, 2015)

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Just imagine if she was having sex with the other BF more than she was with you the entire 8 months...


That thought should certainly be helpful in getting this thing out of his head.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Gottodeal2 said:


> I went on two dates within two weeks we met. Not more. You guys are villainizing me, when I didn't stick my d*** in another girl at all after we met. Two very casual dates. I didn't like them, I liked my wife. While, she was screwing a guy for eight months and not telling me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What you actually said was:


> I also went on a few dates with other girls, but liked her more.


Which is different to what you are now saying.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

What he's seems to be saying MM is that because he liked her more than the other chicks, she was suppose totally commit to him, ditch the other guy right out of the gate and give him complete a deposition, on her sex life.
Like it or not, ain't a damn thing he, or anybody else, can do to change what she did or didn't do in the past. If he's going to be on a slow burn because he perceives this as bad, maybe he needs to just go in and scream, "I ain't got what it takes to stand it any longer. What the hell are you going to do about it".

Maybe I'm just a hard azz because I never had any trouble dealing with "stiff" competition.


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## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

Did she ever have sex with the two of you on the same day?


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

Justinian said:


> That thought should certainly be helpful in getting this thing out of his head.


Well, I've never been much of a rug sweeper. Maybe you've had good luck with it though.


There is no way that he hasn't thought about the "timing" issue when it came to who had sex with her when. Not getting it out in the open and, yes, even discussing it with her, is only going to come back and bite him later on. It may even end up putting a damper on an otherwise successful R attempt.

Why wait until then?

He's a guy, he's thought about it. I know that I'd want to know, or I couldn't even pretend to attempt R.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

What would do GP if she said, "Its likely I did have sex with him more times during the six or eight months before he and I split up" ? What if she said, "its likely about the same number of times.", or "the first 6 months I probably did, but after you said you love me, he and I tapered off"? I'm wondering where you'd set the bar and what you would do.

As for me, I'd take the self confident path and just believe I out F'd him.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

QUOTE=ThePheonix;13231953]What he's seems to be saying MM is that because he liked her more than the other chicks, she was suppose totally commit to him, ditch the other guy right out of the gate and give him complete a deposition, on her sex life.
Like it or not, ain't a damn thing he, or anybody else, can do to change what she did or didn't do in the past. If he's going to be on a slow burn because he perceives this as bad, maybe he needs to just go in and scream, "I ain't got what it takes to stand it any longer. What the hell are you going to do about it".

*Maybe I'm just a hard azz because I never had any trouble dealing with "stiff" competition.*[/QUOTE]

Shame on the OP for not getting this cleared up earlier with her and having "the talk" about whether they were going to be a serious couple. To say that she did not disclose a full blown regular sex with another guy while dating the OP and seeing the OP typically 3 days a week - which probably includes spending the night plenty of times during the 8 month period - was deceitful and objectively wrong. No one is dumb enough to not have a good idea if the person you are dating 6 months in is head over heels in love or if it's just a fling. She hedged her bets KNOWING that the OP assumed he was in an exclusive relationship. While some may think she was a clever girl for exploiting a situation, others will think that she was morally bankrupt GF that should have been removed from his life if he only knew. 

I'm going to say it again. There is no single person out there for you. Soul mates is nothing more than a myth. You can fall in love with a whole slew of people if 1) the person is attractive enough and 2) the reciprocity is there. If I was the OP, I'd divorce. I'm sure most would think I'm nuts. But consider this - we know that she is more than willing to carry on 2 relationships at the same time and keep them compartmentalized effectively. We also know that their marriage has a long way to go, and if kids are ever introduced into the marriage that her likelihood of cheating is greater given that we know she is capable of doing. And yes, she clearly cheated because she would have to be an idiot to not know how the OP perceived the relationship.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> What would do GP if she said, "Its likely I did have sex with him more times during the six or eight months before he and I split up" ? What if she said, "its likely about the same number of times.", or "the first 6 months I probably did, but after you said you love me, he and I tapered off"? I'm wondering where you'd set the bar and what you would do.
> 
> *As for me, I'd take the self confident path and just believe I out F'd him.*


I think it's irrelevant. Instead of thinking I "won" the contest, I'd think that the job applicant was deceitful in filling out the application, and if I knew the truth then she would have "lost" the competition to win me. Then again, that's just my thoughts.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Icey181 said:


> Why would anyone assume that a person who hides the fact that she is having sex with two people at once for months on end would be completely honest during an "I want to be exclusive" talk?


This is answered in two ways: 

If she is an honest person, in her mind she wasn't hiding anything. Folks of the "you're not exclusive until there is an agreement" don't hide it and will admit when asked.

For those that are dishonest? This conversation rules out the "out" they have. You can dump him/her without doubt.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> You know, women have done this throughout history: where a woman is the the prize and several men are competing for her. Correct me if I am wrong, but in Edwardian and Victorian times, a young lady, especially one from a wealthy family, would often have several "suitors" who would compete for her hand. *The only difference was there was usually no premarital sex going on. * But I would imagine that most of those women would be up front with their beaus and tell them who they were competing against. IT was an open contest. Hell, why do you think men in those days fought so much and had "duels of honor"?


The bolded part is the difference. I wouldn't mind "dating" with multiple suitors going after a woman. What I would mind is the sloppy 27th's.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> If I was the OP, I'd divorce. I'm sure most would think I'm nuts.


Actually I don't think you're nuts. He's not likely to ever get over it and the marriage will deteriorate over time. There is nothing that can be done or said to change what happened during their dating period. Her purported remorsefulness will not likely assuage his concerns that she was sleeping with him and someone else. And being sorry for doing it and not being upfront about it is all she's got. He'll likely continue to feel deceived and short changed in the deal, probably playing mind movies of what she did with the other guy.
Under the circumstances, I think it would behoove both parties to go their separate ways.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

eric1 said:


> Did she ever have sex with the two of you on the same day?


Gack!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> Gack!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You gotta assume yes on that one, don't you? If the OP asks, would the wife remember all the times she had sex during those 8 months as to whether she kept them thoroughly apart? Also, if she was having unprotected sex with both, semen will be there for longer than just a day. 

Do you think the wife would answer this truthfully even if she remembers all the incidents? I don't believe she would.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

It would be excruciatingly hard to admit she did that but I believe she would remember if she did.

It must have been a lot of work to keep two men going for 8 months and a lot of thought and planning to pull it off successfully.

There is no way you don't remember banging two in the same day. Two people you were "committed" to for 8 months. No way she doesn't remember.

I hope to God she didn't disrespect them at that level.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

> we know that she is more than willing to carry on 2 relationships at the same time and keep them compartmentalized effectively.


IT is interesting that the (future) wife in this scenario was able to keep it completely hidden from the OP. When I was dating my husband the first year, 11 months to be exact, he was dropping hints in various ways that he was still in touch his "just a friend" ex. I finally took the bull by the horn and told him to either get rid of her or I would start dating other men.

I'm glad he did hold on to the messaging because I was able to see the substance of the relationship. I also feel that when someone is dating 2 or more people they are also keeping a list of the reasons why they may drop you should it come to that. I felt as if my (future) husband "negged" me a on a couple of occasions when it was totally unnecessary.

I suppose the fact that someone drops hints would suggest that they're not a player and are subconsciously uncomfortable with it. But still, they're hedging with you one of their pawns.....

OP, ftr, my husband and I have been together for 5 years including that first year and one year of marriage. I do believe that he is totally committed to me now. He doesn't have any shadowy female friends playing in the back ground. 

But then we got it out before we got married. The details, the neg hits: ie "what a psycho you are for doing a google search." "Yeah, no more psycho than someone asking details about my life, including my sex life when I have never met this person.....And when the info that you had on me was meant to be confidential...... unlike the information that you glean from social media sites." That response certainly shut him up.

GTD, I suggest that you do some searching before raising the issue with your wife. you will want to know the substance of their relationship before she whitewashes it. I found that my husband and his "friend" talked about me a lot. She gave him advice on how to conduct our relationship. And compared herself favorably to me whenever she could. As if 2 women 21 years apart are comparable. (I'm the older.) 

and maybe after you find that info, come back here to discuss it before you have that talk with your wife.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

larry.gray said:


> The bolded part is the difference. I wouldn't mind "dating" with multiple suitors going after a woman. What I would mind is the sloppy 27th's.


IKR?

Well.. based much of the advice given in this thread, he should be happy he was able to outfvck (outchump??) the competition. It could work, maybe not for most of us.

Op, you need to understand that you're free to decide what you would do with your marriage. She did support you during your health problems. People aren't all bad or all good. I don't know what I would do if I were in your shoes as well. I don't think I would blow the marriage out of the water but my tolerance levels for lies, deception, disrespect and the rest of the bullsh!t that comes with being human would be dangerously low from here on out.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

eric1 said:


> Did she ever have sex with the two of you on the same day?


Actually this is a very good question to ask her as the answer would be very telling not that you would get an honest answer short of a polygraph!


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## Gottodeal2 (Jul 24, 2015)

Thanks, guys. I appreciate the different perspectives. I have decided I need to get on with my life and not let this kill me. We had another intense talk and I laid everything out about the deception being the part that really bothered me. At this point, all she can say is sorry. I know she chose me, has loved me, and all of this happened before we were serious. I get all of that, and with the deception, she agrees she did me wrong by not revealing it before we were married. What else can we do? 

I don't want to re-live the first eight months or how many times she was with the other man. If it was similar to us, it's not as much as you guys are projecting. 

Thank you, again. I hope in five years down the road, I look at this event as another thing we overcame together.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Gottodeal,

You wrote, *At this point, all she can say is sorry*

I hope you have the best of luck in life with your wife, but I think you W is still withholding information from you and it's in your best interest for your W to come clean before you have children or become painfully financially bonded. The fact that she did not reveal this on her own is troubling, just saying sorry is not really making up for what she did.

While you speak about 5 years from now, you also need to think about 20+ years from now which is where I am now with my W. I didn't give my W the choice of coming clean or breaking up which I regret as throughout many years of my marriage I was my Ws second choice. 

I would encourage you to speak with the OM to get a second opinion.

Tamat


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Actually, there was probably more conjecture than projecting because of the limited information we had.

From your posts, you do sound like you both would benefit from counseling with an emphasis on recovery from infidelity.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Gottodeal2 said:


> Thanks, guys. I appreciate the different perspectives. I have decided I need to get on with my life and not let this kill me. We had another intense talk and I laid everything out about the deception being the part that really bothered me. At this point, all she can say is sorry. I know she chose me, has loved me, and all of this happened before we were serious. I get all of that, and with the deception, she agrees she did me wrong by not revealing it before we were married. What else can we do?
> 
> I don't want to re-live the first eight months or how many times she was with the other man. If it was similar to us, it's not as much as you guys are projecting.
> 
> Thank you, again. I hope in five years down the road, I look at this yevent as another thing we overcame together.


Get yourself and your wife into marriage counseling. You don't want this to be a festering resentment that bubbles and boils under the surface like one of those mud pots at Yellowstone. Resentment is the marriage killer. You and your wife need to establish firm boundaries in your marriage and stick to them. Then you feel safe and she feels safe.


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## Justinian (Mar 7, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> Actually, there was probably more conjecture than projecting because of the limited information we had.


I think there was a lot of both, which is why the opinions were all over the map.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Gottodeal2 said:


> Thanks, guys. I appreciate the different perspectives. I have decided I need to get on with my life and not let this kill me. We had another intense talk and I laid everything out about the deception being the part that really bothered me. At this point, all she can say is sorry. I know she chose me, has loved me, and all of this happened before we were serious. I get all of that, and with the deception, she agrees she did me wrong by not revealing it before we were married. What else can we do?
> 
> I don't want to re-live the first eight months or how many times she was with the other man. If it was similar to us, it's not as much as you guys are projecting.
> 
> Thank you, again. I hope in five years down the road, I look at this event as another thing we overcame together.





BjornFree said:


> IKR?
> Op, you need to understand that you're free to decide what you would do with your marriage. She did support you during your health problems. People aren't all bad or all good. I don't know what I would do if I were in your shoes as well. I don't think I would blow the marriage out of the water but my tolerance levels for lies, deception, disrespect and the rest of the bullsh!t that comes with being human would be dangerously low from here on out.


GTD2, pay attention to Bjorn. My wife deceived me about several very important things all along from when we first started dating until things blew up at year 29 of our marriage. You have the benefit of knowing about your wife's deceptions early on in the marriage.

Your wife has a template of what is acceptable within a marriage in terms of deception. She believes deception is ok if it promotes her goals, needs, and/or desires. She also has demonstrated the ability to compartmentalize.

The fact you found out and she now says Sorry doesn't mean she has changed in any way! She may well feel sorry for the unpleasantness that has resulted, but she doesn't seem to believe that she did anything inherently wrong.

At some point she will be faced with another situation where your position will be quite different than hers. My wife, when faced with several of these situations, chose to simply lie or fail to inform me about what was going on.

One major event was a year after I had sat her down and said any future lies would be an instant divorce. But once the situation started to develop she reverted back to her template without thinking about it.

Are you ready to set such a nuclear boundary with her, and follow through when she crosses the line? Are you ready to keep this in place for the rest of your life?


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## Justinian (Mar 7, 2015)

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Well, I've never been much of a rug sweeper. Maybe you've had good luck with it though.


I don't consider myself a rug sweeper either, but I have to admit that (luckily) I have never really been put to the test.

I tell myself that that the discovery of any infidelity in my 40 year marriage, no matter when it occurred, would mean an immediate end to the relationship.

Now, I have read so many stories on TAM about spouses who felt the same way, but when actually faced with the situation reacted quite differently. The realization of the devastation of divorce caused them to accept what they never thought they could. As I said, I have never been put to the test, so I can't judge that reaction.

From the details I've been able to glean from this thread I don't see where any infidelity occurred. To me, infidelity is defined as entering into a committed relationship, and then violating that commitment. There has been nothing said to suggest that the wife ever betrayed the husband once committing to the relationship. In fact, the husband describes her as extremely committed and loyal.

As I said before, if the wife had felt that meeting and dating two men at the same time was a betrayal to either one, she could have easily removed all evidence of it. She obviously didn't realize the hurt it would cause until after seeing her husband's reaction. Now all she can do is apologize.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

TAMAT said:


> Gottodeal,
> 
> You wrote, *At this point, all she can say is sorry*
> 
> ...


:wtf:

What on earth for? :scratchhead:


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

OP, so you want to put it all behind you, and you assume that she slept with the both of you roughly the same number of times. Poor assumption on your part since you refuse to find out whether you were plan B or not. I guess it is what it is and best luck to you. You "won" the girl... LOL


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Some advice is given by guys like this:











Some advice is given by guys like this:










You just need to choose to follow the advice of the ones you thinks fits your personality.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

ThePheonix said:


> Some advice is given by guys like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You forgot the muscled barbarian in a loin cloth, waving an axe with a nearly nude woman wrapped around his leg! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Ok, but I don't think ole GTD can quite identify with this gentleman.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> Some advice is given by guys like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks man. Because of that first pic, I had a dream about Tom Brady torching the NFL team I root for...


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Thanks man. Because of that first pic, I had a dream about Tom Brady torching the NFL team I root for...


Sounds like you won't have to worry about that for at least four games...



/TJ


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## leon1 (Sep 3, 2014)

Was your wife ever going to tell you about it , it is a big thing to hide .Her behaviour was very dodgy , i know you talk about it not been serious but thats wrong , when you are saying i love you to her then it was serious .Personally to me its cheating , but everyone sees things different .If it does bother you , get some counselling to get past it .


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

leon1 said:


> *Was your wife ever going to tell you about it* , *it is a big thing to hide .*Her behaviour was very dodgy , i know you talk about it not been serious but thats wrong , when you are saying i love you to her then it was serious .Personally to me its cheating , but everyone sees things different .If it does bother you , get some counselling to get past it .



This is what I am thinking as well. The first 5 dates with my (future) husband went fine. then I felt as if he was pulling back. The text messages between them showed that was right at the time that he told her about me. I also noticed that he started hassling me to pay more on dates.

Then I went away for 3 weeks to visit my family. I suggested through FB that we get together the day I get back. He was coy and didn't set a time. He then texted me about 5pm that day "Are we still getting together." I was thoroughly disgusted. 

I later saw the text messages between them. They talked about me all that week. He told her that he was waiting to hear from me. She teased him that I must mean more to him than he was earlier letting on. They then decided to go out Saturday night and Sunday morning when he knew I was coming in Sunday morning. 

GTD, as I have said before, surely you must have seen some signs that she was dating some one else. ie unaccounted for time; change of plans a little too often and for no excuse or for a flimsy one. How often did you and she have a date on Saturday night? Did you meet her circle of friends? And not just the close ones who keep the secrets but also the acquaintances who don't participate in the secrets? How was she with her phone when you two were together?


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Gottodeal2 said:


> Thanks, guys. I appreciate the different perspectives. I have decided I need to get on with my life and not let this kill me. We had another intense talk and I laid everything out about the deception being the part that really bothered me. At this point, all she can say is sorry. I know she chose me, has loved me, and all of this happened before we were serious. I get all of that, and with the deception, she agrees she did me wrong by not revealing it before we were married. What else can we do?
> 
> I don't want to re-live the first eight months or how many times she was with the other man. If it was similar to us, it's not as much as you guys are projecting.
> 
> Thank you, again. I hope in five years down the road, I look at this event as another thing we overcame together.


All that works...

As long as she has actually come clean about everything, and does so, forever.

That's the problem.


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