# V-day sex fight



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I don't really know what to do or think right now with my wife. Fast forward everything good that happened tonight, we had a fight. I bought her cuffs which was a gesture that I was ready to trust her again when it comes to bondage and she was very delighted at first. So anyways, went home, and she wouldn't listen to safewords. So I yelled at her and she let me go, then we argued.

She says that I'm acting up and that she didn't do anything to hurt me, I told her that it's not easy for me to regain trust in her after what she did years ago to me when I was tied up, and her refusal to listen to safewords even taking the piss outta the fact that I tried to enforce safewords to her made me just lose it.

So we went our seperate ways. No sex tonight. Fk V-day. It SUCKS *sigh*


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Hell maybe it's the alcohol, I've quit, but maybe those 3 drinks after so long sober has got into me. Hell I don't know anymore... I wanted tonight to be fun and perfect, I can't believe this happened


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## Enchanted (Jan 2, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> I don't really know what to do or think right now with my wife. Fast forward everything good that happened tonight, we had a fight. I bought her cuffs which was a gesture that I was ready to trust her again when it comes to bondage and she was very delighted at first. So anyways, went home, and she wouldn't listen to safewords. So I yelled at her and she let me go, then we argued.
> 
> She says that I'm acting up and that she didn't do anything to hurt me, I told her that it's not easy for me to regain trust in her after what she did years ago to me when I was tied up, and her refusal to listen to safewords even taking the piss outta the fact that I tried to enforce safewords to her made me just lose it.
> 
> So we went our seperate ways. No sex tonight. Fk V-day. It SUCKS *sigh*


Forgive me, but I'm going to be blunt. Your wife's a nut job. Seriously. Tying you up and not listing to safe words is abuse. She sounds like she has antisocial tendencies. I'd have those divorce papers written up fast, along with an order of protection.


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## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

Can't say that I fully understand what happened but not listening to safewords is a big no no.

Do you think she wanted to hurt you intentionally when she received control or she is sadistic by nature and felt you were too sensitive and scared?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

If that's the case, she broke my heart tonight... 

Everything was going good why must this happen? Of course she blames everything on me, I'm not even reading her texts after the first one she sent me.

She didn't hurt me no, not yet, I just wasn't feeling really comfortable and I thought especially now since we're seperated and trying to make things work that she would be more cautious and understanding but instead she just ignored me.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I feel like dying, why the hell does she have to do this when I'm so VULNERABLE I was falling in love with her all over again and she has to do THIS?!


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Hell think I'm just going to try to sleep this off and hopefully I'll feel better in the morning. So much for reconciliation


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Was she caught up in the moment? Had a few drinks?


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## Enchanted (Jan 2, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> I feel like dying, why the hell does she have to do this when I'm so VULNERABLE I was falling in love with her all over again and she has to do THIS?!


I'm so sorry you're having a tough time. It's so sad when the people we love disappoint us and aren't the people we wanted them to be. I think you both need MC.

How long have you been married?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

LookingForTheSun said:


> Was she caught up in the moment? Had a few drinks?


A few yeah but I know her, she wasn't drunk AT ALL.



> I'm so sorry you're having a tough time. It's so sad when the people we love disappoint us and aren't the people we wanted them to be. I think you both need MC.
> 
> How long have you been married?


We are doing MC, I guess this is something to bring up... *sighs*
Married 4 years, 7 year relationship.

I don't know anymore, I am home alone depressed with my wife sending me abusive msgs that I'm not even going to read after the first one she sent me.


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## Enchanted (Jan 2, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> A few yeah but I know her, she wasn't drunk AT ALL.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is MC helping?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

It did for a while, and we've been going good actually, hell we haven't had a fight since seperation we even had a very passionate rough session a few nights ago. That's probably why it hurts so much now...

So we have all the couples holding each other tonight and me and my wife... pffft. WHAT A DAY TO PICK A FIGHT!
Fk this... I don't know what to think anymore


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Chicken sh-t eh? It turns you off eh? Fk my wife

Hell she's PISSING ME OFF SO MUCH RIGHT NOW I SHOULDNT BE READING HER MSGS BUT FK HER
FK MARRIAGE
FK RELATIONSHIPS
FK VALENTINES
FK RECONCILIATION
FK LOVE
FK THIS!!!!

I'm FKING OUTTA HERE


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## Enchanted (Jan 2, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> It did for a while, and we've been going good actually, hell we haven't had a fight since seperation we even had a very passionate rough session a few nights ago. That's probably why it hurts so much now...
> 
> So we have all the couples holding each other tonight and me and my wife... pffft. WHAT A DAY TO PICK A FIGHT!
> Fk this... I don't know what to think anymore


Maybe you can contact the therapist and see if you can have a session tonight?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

It's midnight... *sighs*

I should sleep this off... thanks though, for helping a man through this. I feel like just giving everything up now


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Just my opinion, but I would not be doing any bondage play during a reconcilliation. She is sending you abusive text...really no more bondage till she gets her act together. Even in the best of times "no honor safe word....no bondage!" Sounds like you spouse has some control and anger issues. I know this won't be easy but you need to ignore her behavior and not let her see your upset. That plays into her controling side. Just send her a text message back saying "play by the rules or we don't play at all". Sorry your Vday turned out so poorly...hang in there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

So she went to counselling, so she decided to give us a chance after all I've done, so blah blah blah, and oh yeah, by getting pissed off over her not respecting boundaries means I'm chicken sh-t. Oh yeah I turn her off.

Why do I feel like going out again even if I'm depressed as fk and to cheat on her so I can say "chicken sh-t eh? Look who I'm fking now you fking *****"

*sighs* No... screw that, I wont do it. Just going to sleep it off


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

mineforever said:


> Just my opinion, but I would not be doing any bondage play during a reconcilliation. She is sending you abusive text...really no more bondage till she gets her act together. Even in the best of times "no honor safe word....no bondage!" Sounds like you spouse has some control and anger issues. I know this won't be easy but you need to isnore her behavior and not let her see your upset. That plays into her controling side. Just send her a text message back saying* "play by the rules or we din't play at all"*. Sorry your Vday turned out so poorly...hang in there.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Alright, I'm going to send that, then I'm going to call it the night.

*sighs* the cuffs was a bad idea. REALLY FKING BAD IDEA. I just thought I could trust her after all this...


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## Carlchurchill (Jan 23, 2013)

I dont know your relationship dynamics, sounds like she is the dom and u the sub...clearly you arnt giving her what she needs ie. bowing down to her will.

If in real life you come across as you do in these posts, whining and emo, then I can see why she isnt attracted to you. Man up, grow some balls, tie her up and spank her ass!


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## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

mineforever said:


> Just send her a text message back saying "play by the rules or we don't play at all".


Agreed. I like short and simple communication. :smthumbup:


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Oh fk off mate, I ain't no sub, that's why I wanted to do this FOR HER, because she wanted to play dom. To hell if she's attracted to me or not, I had women eyeing me up all night but I stayed true to her.

I married a woman giving her a second chance who tied a leather strap to my **** and proceeded to torture me to the point I broke and begged her which traumatised me for years and now when I decide to give it another shot SHE WONT EVEN RESPECT SOME SIMPLE BOUNDARIES

So what? You're saying your on her side eh? So I'm hey, chicken sh-t because I TRIED TO ENFORCE BOUNDARIES eh? Whiny and emo eh? GET FKED


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> No sex tonight. Fk V-day. It SUCKS *sigh*


Yep, me neither. You said it bro.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Still the weekend mate, thinking of just calling this whole reconciliation crap off and start fking someone who wont p-ss me off over some basic fking boundaries.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

RD I'm not even going to read the other responses and I'm just going to say WHAT THE HECK WERE YOU THINKING????

You really think she's 'cured' after what a few months? This is totally on you. You handed an abuser a weapon and then you have the audacity to get mad at HER when she hits you with it. Really?

Seriously dude you brought this on yourself. This could have all been avoided had you simply gotten her a few dozen roses.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

*sighs* Maybe I should just send her another text and end it


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> *sighs* Maybe I should just send her a text and end it


I swear I think you set her up to fail on purpose.

Everything you do with her is some twisted test. 

The sad part is you don't even see it.


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## Enchanted (Jan 2, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Oh fk off mate, I ain't no sub, that's why I wanted to do this FOR HER, because she wanted to play dom. To hell if she's attracted to me or not, I had women eyeing me up all night but I stayed true to her.
> 
> I married a woman giving her a second chance who tied a leather strap to my **** and proceeded to torture me to the point I broke and begged her which traumatised me for years and now when I decide to give it another shot SHE WONT EVEN RESPECT SOME SIMPLE BOUNDARIES
> 
> So what? You're saying your on her side eh? So I'm hey, chicken sh-t because I TRIED TO ENFORCE BOUNDARIES eh? Whiny and emo eh? GET FKED


OMG the more details, the more terrifying this story becomes. I think you need to figure out why you want to be with a woman who has crossed the line and tortured you.


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## Enchanted (Jan 2, 2013)

Mavash. said:


> RD I'm not even going to read the other responses and I'm just going to say WHAT THE HECK WERE YOU THINKING????
> 
> You really think she's 'cured' after what a few months? This is totally on you. You handed an abuser a weapon and then you have the audacity to get mad at HER when she hits you with it. Really?
> 
> Seriously dude you brought this on yourself. This could have all been avoided had you simply gotten her a few dozen roses.


Mavash. You and I have similar backgrounds - we know abuse when we hear it. (Unless he's fabricating a tale.) 

Do you really think she's going to change?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Mavash. said:


> I swear I think you set her up to fail on purpose.
> 
> Everything you do with her is some twisted test.
> 
> The sad part is you don't even see it.


She has been cooperative since seperation, she went to counselling on her own initiative, our sex life had zero issues, she signed a fking postnup, she told me repeatedly that she would never do what she did years ago to me again, she even seemed the more frightened spouse when it came to the reality of divorce.

HOW THE FK COULD I HAVE SEEN THIS?


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> She has been cooperative since seperation, she went to counselling on her own initiative, our sex life had zero issues, she signed a fking postnup, she told me repeatedly that she would never do what she did years ago to me again, she even seemed the more frightened spouse when it came to the reality of divorce.
> 
> HOW THE FK COULD I HAVE SEEN THIS?


You're living APART. Of course she's able to show you her good side.

To be honest I think the odds of her EVER being able to use handcuff in sex play is nil. She's like an alcoholic that can never drink. Her demons will always be there no matter how much therapy she has.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Enchanted said:


> Mavash. You and I have similar backgrounds - we know abuse when we hear it. (Unless he's fabricating a tale.)
> 
> Do you really think she's going to change?


I've know RD for years. Yes it's a true story.

As far as her changing....don't care what I care about is that RD stop it. So far he's the one who has allowed it to happen over and over and over again.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

RD do you want or have children? if not, why are you in LTR instead of lots of STRs?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

I think you need to find your "Drama King" avatar again...

C


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

You do not sound like a sub at all...sounds like you have to Dom and a Sub (her) with an attitude and agenda. If she were a try Dom she would be apologizing up a storm. A true Dom is all about bring pleasure to someone completely submitted to you. From what she did in the past I would NEVER do bondage with her again. What she did was some kind of mean! She doesn't have a true Dom spirit at all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

We have a daughter, and hell maybe I should become a single dad after all.

I dont know anymore, I was willing to put my faith in her as she put her faith in that we could work this out. I've come to appreciate her, had my emotions flooding back... now this.

@Mavash

How can she be so two-faced in this?! How can she justify that? If that was the case she FKING LED ME ON


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Hell now everything she said to me since seperation is coming up as rubbish. All false promises, all two-faced BS that I decided to trust.

FK IT, tomorrow, just send her a text, tell her FK IT, she can keep the house once we divorce at the end of this year, but she signed the postnup already so hands off my fking business. Enough of this.

I pray she changes her attitude, but even if she does... can I trust her again? Pffft


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## Auzzie (Jan 23, 2012)

No. It seems you are both on a destructive merry-go-round. Go get some individual counselling and walk away. Relationships ar meant to be safe and amazing. And they can be with the right person. It seems you two are the wrong persons for each other. Better to be a happier you, and for your child to see a happier Mom and Dad than to be in an environment of toxicity. The child will model her their own relationship on yours. Is the current one the one you want them to follow?


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## Enchanted (Jan 2, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Hell now everything she said to me since seperation is coming up as rubbish. All false promises, all two-faced BS that I decided to trust.
> 
> FK IT, tomorrow, just send her a text, tell her FK IT, she can keep the house once we divorce at the end of this year, but she signed the postnup already so hands off my fking business. Enough of this.
> 
> I pray she changes her attitude, but even if she does... can I trust her again? Pffft


I have to say this really puts my hair dying dilemma into perspective. I did find a hair dye that doesn't make me break out in a rash. I solved my problem Now you need to solve yours.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> @Mavash
> 
> How can she be so two-faced in this?! How can she justify that? If that was the case she FKING LED ME ON


She's not two faced RD she's BROKEN. This wasn't intentional it's simply all she knows hence why I said you must never put her in the position. No more handcuffs, restraints, nothing like that ever ever again.

She didn't lead you on either. She believes she's different and on some level she might be but if you 'poke her' in her place of weakness her demons will come out I guarantee it.

This is never cured just managed.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

I can't believe you thought this was a good idea. And even thinking this, I can't believe you didn't get the 'fake' cuffs which have the quick release tabs so even if she was untrustworthy, you didn't have to take her at her word.

So...what have you learned from this?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Can't sleep, *sigh* Ok, shock's over at least. Let's analyse this.

She's been bugging me for years about giving it another try, granted; she also has never repeated that scenario, and so since seperation getting back in my good books I thought I would make her happy (sure, my second brain also had a role in this - I admit it!), but I thought I had no reason NOT to trust her after something that happened over four years ago. Hell it's almost like she saw a weakness, then took a chance at it straight away.

Ok, that's it, I'm not drinking with her again. Shame really because she was quite happy until that point. I don't know though, thinking about what she said, she DID let me go after all but only after I yelled at her but **** I don't know. I wonder if I have been overreacting but FK I don't know.

She hasn't sent me one message after I sent her "Either play by the rules or we don't play at all", short and sweet worked, thanks. Not going to call her, if anything I'll call the house phone tomorrow in the arvo cause she NEVER picks it up so I can talk to my daughter and bypass my wife.

She's rather rude with her messages before stopping however - reading through them. Amusing really, I should post her texts to Guinness and be declared "The man who turned off a nympho" and demand royalties.

EDIT: I really don't know what to do at this point. Maybe I'll give it a week. Funny really though, cause I've been thinking... sure she's one of the few non-materialistic women in this city but hang on a second. At least a materialistic woman would appreciate the hard work I've put into my business instead of nagging me about my work hours. At least a materialistic woman won't get me late for work because I failed to satisfy her by the time limit, nor would she embarrass me by making me late back to work after my lunch break. At least with a materialistic woman she's much easier to please and appreciative. So there goes my wife's "competitive advantage". 

Pffft... now things don't look so grim when it comes to moving on. Other women are starting to look more attractive.


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## Speed (Dec 9, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> She has been cooperative since seperation, she went to counselling on her own initiative, our sex life had zero issues, she signed a fking postnup, she told me repeatedly that she would never do what she did years ago to me again, she even seemed the more frightened spouse when it came to the reality of divorce.
> 
> HOW THE FK COULD I HAVE SEEN THIS?


BECAUSE MOST SANE PEOPLE WOULDN'T INTRODUCE A PRIOR DESTRUCTIVE SITUATION INTO A CURRENTLY VOLATILE RELATIONSHIP.

She just failed another one of your tests. Good job.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

True... I guess 4 years doesn't really rid of demons does it? I don't know, she DID let me go, I can't deny that. Just makes me even more confused if I was acting up but fk I don't know.


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

If the text shut het up then my guess you stunned her by taking control. Stand your ground and don't cave...that will be giving her control (ability to manipulate you). She owes you an apology big time. I don't know that I would pursue a continued relationship with either way. 

The pain of betrayal of trust in a Dom/Sub is really painful and hard to get past. Unlike being in a forced a situation you actually give the person control...its like a double betrayal. Remember this wasn't your fault it is all hers...abuse of that kind of trust is pure meanness. Do something for yourself special today and surround yourself with positive loving people for a while.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Sounds like you need to sober up and sleep it off. Anytime alcohol is involved, Sh*t can happen. People can think they are funny but they are not. 

Scratch what just happened - have you both been doing well before that?

Don't do anything crazy - it got out of hand. Take some time and talk about it once you calm down. You were scared, then angry, and now furious that she put you in that position....but it sounds like you led her there to start with even though your intentions were good.

Think about before this incident, then set new boundaries if you have too.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

You need to be less Random, Dude!

First, you need to get through your thick skull she cannot be trusted with that situation PERIOD. For her, this is about HER total control. If she ascedes to your wishes, it ruins it for her. I won't go into where the sadism from your first session came from. I am not an expert.

So YOU CAN NEVER DO THIS AGAIN WITH HER. No matter how much she begs. The FACT she begs about is indicative of something. 

Once YOU realize this, you need to tell HER that. It's off the menu. Period. No more S and M funtime.

And already you are wobbling. AFTER you were scared to death...AFTER you had flashbacks of thongs around your johnson THEN she let you go. How noble of her! Um...no...she got what she was after.

So set that ground rule: no more S&M period. See where she wants to go from there.

And getting DRUNK with somoene with such poor impulse control? Seriously?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

So I didn't over-react? =/

I don't know, been meditating on her texts. She really knows how to put me down it seems. Hell she's not the only one p-ssed at having no sex tonight! Damn woman... isn't she supposed to be the empathetic half?


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Hell no you didn't overreact but what I'm trying to get you to see is basically what JCD said you CANNOT do this with her EVER.

I'm also trying to get you to own that YOU caused this. She cannot be trusted in this situation EVER I don't care how many years have gone by.

Just learn the lesson and just say no to S&M unless you like getting abused.


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## StargateFan (Nov 19, 2012)

Safe word is a safe word is a safe word. Sounds like she is not really in control when she gets herself all worked up. Blood in the water. 

You have a big problem here because this sounds like a large part of her sexuality. If you just say no, never again this will just eat her up. 

Lesson, she cannot respect safe words. The only option I see going forward is a Tazer collar with a remote in your hand. Or bodyguards. A little extreme. 

I am sure you are really into her level of intensity. Many of us long for just a sliver of that. So I understand how difficult it is to let go.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

LookingForTheSun said:


> Sounds like you need to sober up and sleep it off. Anytime alcohol is involved, Sh*t can happen. People can think they are funny but they are not.
> 
> Scratch what just happened - have you both been doing well before that?
> 
> ...


I'm sober now, and reflecting. I can't sleep, guess I'll try again after this.



JCD said:


> You need to be less Random, Dude!
> 
> First, you need to get through your thick skull she cannot be trusted with that situation PERIOD. For her, this is about HER total control. If she ascedes to your wishes, it ruins it for her. I won't go into where the sadism from your first session came from. I am not an expert.
> 
> ...


Hmmm...
Yeah, looks like we're not doing this again. Hell if we even do anything anymore, based on her texts she finds me a turn off now. Yay!


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## StargateFan (Nov 19, 2012)

Have you reflected on the possibility that there is some codependency in this dynamic?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Mavash. said:


> Hell no you didn't overreact but what I'm trying to get you to see is basically what JCD said you CANNOT do this with her EVER.
> 
> I'm also trying to get you to own that YOU caused this. She cannot be trusted in this situation EVER I don't care how many years have gone by.
> 
> Just learn the lesson and just say no to S&M unless you like getting abused.


Yeah, I fked up, I underestimated her demons... *sigh*

You know she brought this up over the years, about how she wishes she can make me trust her again, and that how it hurts that she did that to me and that she wishes she can make it up to me so she can help me forget what she did. Well, one doesn't get far ignoring safewords.

If we even discuss this I'm going to ask her WHY the **** she did that come to think of it. We agreed and I made it VERY clear the rules.



StargateFan said:


> Safe word is a safe word is a safe word. Sounds like she is not really in control when she gets herself all worked up. Blood in the water.
> 
> You have a big problem here because this sounds like a large part of her sexuality. If you just say no, never again this will just eat her up.
> 
> Lesson, she cannot respect safe words. The only option I see going forward is a Tazer collar with a remote in your hand. Or bodyguards. A little extreme.


Yeah, horny + drunk + nymphomania + cuffs = disaster on Valentines day it seems. Heh, a Tazer, that would be funny.



> I am sure you are really into her level of intensity. Many of us long for just a sliver of that. So I understand how difficult it is to let go.


Yeah... I thought I could have the good without the bad, I took a bad miscalculated risk. FAIL



> Have you reflected on the possibility that there is some codependency in this dynamic?


This is more of a case of misplaced trust and making stupid decisions with penis and then adding alcohol to the mix.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

I should clarify my comment, perhaps... I didn't mean to imply you were overreacting; not listening to a safe word is a HUGE betrayal of trust. But you do orchestrate your own drama. Maybe you need to find a "drama maestro" avatar instead. 

Isn't there a little voice inside your head that sometimes says "is this really a good idea"? Or "what's the odds this turns out good, or the odds it will turn out bad"? Do you ever talk to your counselor BEFORE doing something like this, and see if someone else thinks its a good idea?

It took years for your relationship to get to where it is. Expecting it to get magically fixed in months is unreasonable. Everything negative you say about your wife points to deep problems. They're not going away easily, if ever. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

I am glad you are starting too realize bondage and more specific Dom/Sub is not something you do with someone you completely trust! It is hot and explosive, it can also be very dangerous if with the wrong partner. Ypu found out the hard way a female can be very aggressive and threatening. Don't put yourself in that position again with her. Life is way to short and your equipment is not replaceable is she seriously hurts you. I think she got what she wanted...your traumatized flashback and the hen the texts were all about controling you while you are too in shock to think straight. Move on with your life, move forward don't look back...except fake cuffs from now on and someone you can really trust.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

@PBear

Mate! I'm not even 30! Still young dumb and full of...
Hence my penis does overtake my risk-assessment algorithims at times, especially recently with 3 months of solid reconciliation.

Now I'm calmer I get it, yes I've been stupid. *sigh* I just didn't expect her to take such a risk in this when she seems so intent on doing everything to make us work. I guess her vi-jayjay overtakes her risk-assessment algorithims as well.

@Mineforever

You really think she wanted to make me remember the flashback? I don't know =/
She did let me go in the end, and I don't know why she would want to make me NOT want her by pulling off this stunt when she's been working hard last 3 months to keep me from walking. Hell she doesn't make any sense... *sigh*


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Actually she makes more sence than you think... not in a good way though. I think she likes the power and control and I think she lost control last night. Her abusive texting says alot. Sorry I think she has some serios issues that you can't fit for her.... I think she needs some serious theraphy. Yes I think she was on a control high until you text her and took the control back. That is why I told you to text her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Come to think of it, this was such a bad idea.

Alright, sex a few times a fortnight is not working out. I think I've already gone nuts, and looks like I triggered her as well. Hell I think her sex addiction has rubbed off on me, yet I'm not mentioning it to my IC.


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## StargateFan (Nov 19, 2012)

I forgot to mention. I see a potential problem with the text you sent. "Play by the rules, or we don't play again". That is like saying "next time". She may have interpreted that as she is now off the hook, you have forgiven her and now she has a second chance (or third or whatever). Maybe why she quit texting. 

Maybe that was the message you wanted to send.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

mineforever said:


> Actually she makes more sence than you think... not in a good way though. I think she likes the power and control and I think she lost control last night. Her abusive texting says alot. Sorry I think she has some serios issues that you can't fit for her.... I think she needs some serious theraphy. Yes I think she was on a control high until you text her and took the control back. That is why I told you to text her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah thanks for that. It definitely shut her up. I wonder what she's doing now.

She is doing therapy at present, we both are. Looks like we need our space.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

StargateFan said:


> I forgot to mention. I see a potential problem with the text you sent. "Play by the rules, or we don't play again". That is like saying "next time". She may have interpreted that as she is now off the hook, you have forgiven her and now she has a second chance (or third or whatever). Maybe why she quit texting.
> 
> Maybe that was the message you wanted to send.


=/
I said "Don't play AT ALL"

But hmmm, don't know if that would make that big a difference. Well if she reckons she's off the hook she's in for a surprise.


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## StargateFan (Nov 19, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Come to think of it, this was such a bad idea.
> 
> Alright, sex a few times a fortnight is not working out. I think I've already gone nuts, and looks like I triggered her as well. Hell I think her sex addiction has rubbed off on me, *yet I'm not mentioning it to my IC.*


Good plan RD. Selective disclosure, I am sure that will make your sessions very productive.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Yeah I can't ignore the suspicions, I think it has rubbed off...

*sigh* 3 months, everything was pretty farting butterflies outta our asses and then come V-day all hell breaks loose.
Looks like all the progress thus far was merely scratching the surface. Guess I was impatient as well... BAH!


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Clarification do I think she planned this, not really. I think she has major anger/aggression issues and for some reason they have manifested into this aggressive/controling behavior. My guess is she probably thought she had the urges under control and discovered last night she doesn't. She needs to work on herself right now..she does not belong in a relationship until she can get her head straightened out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## StargateFan (Nov 19, 2012)

How many retired lion tamers do you know?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

From an outsiders perspective, I just wanted to offer you this thought. You mentioned that 4 years ago, in a bondage situation, she went far beyond the stop point. Assuming you understand just how traumatic that must have been for you, have you realized that putting yourselve in the same situation once again and arrangng for different results, is another way of working through that trauma? I'm not a clinician and no expert on PTSD, but I do know that with some traumas reliving the situation but arranging for different results is a way to get closure and move on. I mention this because you seem to be beating the crap out of yourself and not able top understand why you would put yourself under her power once again. Stop beating yourself up. She seduced you into trusting her, you sought closure on the past trauma. She retraumatized you. 

You must walk away from any relationship with this woman. She can never be trusted, now matter how she rationalizes her actions, no matter how she minimizes the damage she's caused. The only way you could ever trust her again is if you give her cuffs and she thows them away stating she cannot be trusted with this kind of power ever again.

Trust is a precious prescious gift. You wanted to be able to trust her again but she failed the test. Now you know. Now you can move on with a clear conscience. Now you can put the past trauma and the recent trauma into perspective. There is nothing wrong with you. You deserve a woman you can trust, because clearly you're a man who will go to the ends of the earth to make her happy.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

> From an outsiders perspective, I just wanted to offer you this thought. You mentioned that 4 years ago, in a bondage situation, she went far beyond the stop point. Assuming you understand just how traumatic that must have been for you, have you realized that putting yourselve in the same situation once again and arrangng for different results, is another way of working through that trauma? I'm not a clinician and no expert on PTSD, but I do know that with some traumas reliving the situation but arranging for different results is a way to get closure and move on. I mention this because you seem to be beating the crap out of yourself and not able top understand why you would put yourself under her power once again. Stop beating yourself up. She seduced you into trusting her, you sought closure on the past trauma. She retraumatized you.


Yes, I guess in a way I was, I don't know... if that's so then it's the same way I rid of arachnophobia developed as a kid, I bought toy spiders, enough to give me a fright everytime I woke up.



> You must walk away from any relationship with this woman. She can never be trusted, now matter how she rationalizes her actions, no matter how she minimizes the damage she's caused. The only way you could ever trust her again is if you give her cuffs and she thows them away stating she cannot be trusted with this kind of power ever again.
> 
> Trust is a precious prescious gift. You wanted to be able to trust her again but she failed the test. Now you know. Now you can move on with a clear conscience. Now you can put the past trauma and the recent trauma into perspective. There is nothing wrong with you. You deserve a woman you can trust, because clearly you're a man who will go to the ends of the earth to make her happy.


I don't know... I guess I'll give it a week, and see what happens no?
*sighs* Cause it's really a waste


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

And talk to your therapist, and be open and honest with him/her! They can't help otherwise. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Meh, reading her texts again, fk it. Yeah maybe I'll walk

@PBear
Yeah looks like I need help with this. Come to think of it, looks like I'm not fully over what happened yet. If anything, I don't think I can ever do S&M again... not with any woman. Great... I got PTSD

This sucks
I'm officially more damaged


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

Not being able to tell the difference between funny and not funny is a little creepy.

You cant put someone in a vulnerable position and then use that as leverage for your own entertainment at the expense of the other - and at the same time be totally tone deaf about what is happening.

Thats sort of...aspergers/sociopathic 'i dont get it'...isnt it?

I'd have a hard time gaining trust too. One step forward, 3 steps back...


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Yeah... that's her demon I guess
I don't know, even after 7 years she's still a mystery when it comes to disecting her intense libido even to herself.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Ignoring safe words is a huge breach. A huge violation of trust. 

Sorry man.




RandomDude said:


> I don't really know what to do or think right now with my wife. Fast forward everything good that happened tonight, we had a fight. I bought her cuffs which was a gesture that I was ready to trust her again when it comes to bondage and she was very delighted at first. So anyways, went home, and she wouldn't listen to safewords. So I yelled at her and she let me go, then we argued.
> 
> She says that I'm acting up and that she didn't do anything to hurt me, I told her that it's not easy for me to regain trust in her after what she did years ago to me when I was tied up, and her refusal to listen to safewords even taking the piss outta the fact that I tried to enforce safewords to her made me just lose it.
> 
> So we went our seperate ways. No sex tonight. Fk V-day. It SUCKS *sigh*


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## StargateFan (Nov 19, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Meh, reading her texts again, fk it. *Yeah maybe I'll walk*
> 
> @PBear
> Yeah looks like I need help with this. Come to think of it, looks like I'm not fully over what happened yet. If anything, I don't think I can ever do S&M again... not with any woman. Great... I got PTSD
> ...


You have been on here long enough to know the translation of that statement. 

You are emotional. Cool off. Take a few days before you do anything. Go dark for your own sanity.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Yes, I guess in a way I was, I don't know... if that's so then it's the same way I rid of arachnophobia developed as a kid, I bought toy spiders, enough to give me a fright everytime I woke up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So, reliving the traumatizing event is how you normally cope. Commendable! But plastic spiders can't really hurt you whereas this woman has shown a sadistic glee in hurting you. You know she's toying with you and you know she can't be trusted. In the absence of learning another way to cope, you must find another way to relive this event without involving this woman. There are people who are trust worthy, find them. Ask yourself this, if you knew of a woman you could trust, who could recreate everything that happened, yet give you the outcome you SHOULD have had, would that help you put this issue away for good? I'm wondering if you will be continually drawn back to her as a means of gaining back the control over the event as you should have had it in the first place?

Are you still cycling through both events? if so, are they changing at all? Do you feel you can see them objectively without self recrimination?

Until you can answer these questions with certainty, go dark with her, as has been suggested. Heal, rest, regain your sense of self so you see this in the right frame of mind.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Looks like we're both going dark, she hasn't sent one message. Looks like it's a waiting game now. Tempted to get a girl on the side just to make up for what happened last night, but I can't do that unless I call it quits. At least she signed the postnup, it's alot of stress outta my head. She's probably feeling stupid that she signed it lol

I think I'll stay away from S&M now, even if I have it with another woman to deal with the trauma, sex with my wife is the only way I can convince myself I've dealt with the fear. Same way I learnt to handle huntsman spiders - not by hand yet, but now I can go up close to them, put a container over them with a paper slipped under and take the darn beast outside. It took a while, I squished a few of them, poor things really.

Now I find them fascinating, still NOT able to do THIS though:








*shiver*

When it comes to S&M, when I cycle through both events, I did act on fear when I yelled at her, but she DID ignore safewords. So hell I don't know whether I was really a coward which she has been accusing me of via text all last night or if I did the right thing.


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Looks like we're both going dark, she hasn't sent one message. Looks like it's a waiting game now. Tempted to get a girl on the side just to make up for what happened last night, but I can't do that unless I call it quits. At least she signed the postnup, it's alot of stress outta my head. She's probably feeling stupid that she signed it lol
> 
> I think I'll stay away from S&M now, even if I have it with another woman to deal with the trauma, sex with my wife is the only way I can convince myself I've dealt with the fear. Same way I learnt to handle huntsman spiders - not by hand yet, but now I can go up close to them, put a container over them with a paper slipped under and take the darn beast outside. It took a while, I squished a few of them, poor things really.
> 
> ...


I think your instints kicked in and you knew something wasn't right. Be glad your ok and it is all over. Look forward, not back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## StargateFan (Nov 19, 2012)

Coward ? WTF, whatever she is into, it is not S&M. She gives S&M a bad name. 

You were not a coward and don't you dare start thinking that, ever! You were not comfortable with was happening and wanted it to stop. End of story. Those are the rules and she ignored them, again. S&M is not some courage sh*t test. Maybe to her it is, but it is not. 

Wether you want to do S&M with someone else is entirely up to you. I can almost guarantee it will be different that whatever she has been up to. 

Stop doubting yourself. You did nothing wrong, she did. It is clear she is just an amateur.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

A part of me hates myself for begging her to stop though years ago, same part of me wants to relive it just so I can spit on her face and tell her DO YOUR WORST I can take it. 

At least last night I didn't beg. I commanded it.

I've never truly got over the fact that she broke me that time.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I guess its just that for a man who has been taught to never submit, to never break, after what happened 4 years ago it's become 'my beast to be slain', the shame of surrender has never sat well for me even 4 years later and not even now.

Thanks for your support, I need it, especially with all the accusations from my wife that I was too chicken sh-t to take a chance... pffft, I took a chance alright, until she didn't listen to safewords until I got mad at her. I dont know if she'll see that but I'm not talking to her until she realises this and apologises.

Even then I don't know... the trauma of what happened wasn't just the pain, it's what I did to stop it. Not proud of it


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> I guess its just that for a man who has been taught to never submit, to never break, after what happened 4 years ago it's become 'my beast to be slain', the shame of surrender has never sat well for me even 4 years later and not even now.
> 
> Thanks for your support, I need it, especially with all the accusations from my wife that I was too chicken sh-t to take a chance... pffft, I took a chance alright, until she didn't listen to safewords until I got mad at her. I dont know if she'll see that but I'm not talking to her until she realises this and apologises.
> 
> Even then I don't know... the trauma of what happened wasn't just the pain, it's what I did to stop it. Not proud of it


Ponder this...if a soldier finds himself unarmed and in the middle of enemy territory is he a coward to hide any slink to safety. No he is a survivor, he will live to fight another day. Why do you think yourself a coward becuse your natural survival instinct kicked in...all those years ago you saw she had lost control and did what you needed ti do to get out of the situation. 

My guess is she has gone silent because she realizes what she did last night and is trying to figure out if she has destroyed her chances with you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well, when a soldier is captured and tortured for information, the strongest would not break. I broke, to a woman. It's not something I share to anyone. It's frankly emasculating and embarrassing and shameful. My ancestors who fought the death at least died well even if we were genocided for our refusal to submit. For centuries the rest of us are lingering on struggling to grasp at what little pride and hope we have after being subjicated.

My wife 4 years ago broke my pride in who I thought I was. Since then I've been meaning to relive it, to go through some kind of torture just so I can prove to myself that I will NOT break again. I don't know, all this is fked.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Anyone can break. Anyone. Don't think otherwise.

That someone you trusted WOULD do this to you is twice the betrayal. That someone did this twice...well...

In Escape and Evasion class for the military, they put the screws into the downed aviators...and they know it isn't real. I'm sure some of THEM break too.


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## StargateFan (Nov 19, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> I guess its just that for a man who has been taught to never submit, to never break, after what happened 4 years ago it's become 'my beast to be slain', the shame of surrender has never sat well for me even 4 years later and not even now.
> 
> Thanks for your support, I need it, especially with all the accusations from my wife that I was too chicken sh-t to take a chance... pffft, I took a chance alright, until she didn't listen to safewords until I got mad at her. I dont know if she'll see that but I'm not talking to her until she realises this and apologises.
> 
> Even then I don't know... the trauma of what happened wasn't just the pain, it's what I did to stop it. Not proud of it


You are not some fictional Hollywood spy. Everyone breaks under torture or they die. Yes torture. That is what was going on. S&M is erotic, not torture. S&M is not some courage sh*t test, she thinks it is but it is not. If one has to use a safe word, then the Dom failed. Amature. 

She tried to break you and you broke. EVERYONE has their breaking point, she found yours. If I wanted to break her I could. If you wanted to break her you could. 

You need some help and not from garden variety counselor. You need a specialist in these issues. What happened to you has many similarities to rape. You were not in control. In many jurisdictions in the US she would be facing jail time. 

There is absolutely nothing for you to be ashamed of. Jack Bauer is a fiction, he is not real.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

My ancestors didn't =/
Ah hell lets drop it, think I've pondered enough on that

Ne ways, my wife still hasn't responded, and based on her texts, I'd wager she's very disappointed. Meh, fk it


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## StargateFan (Nov 19, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Well, when a soldier is captured and tortured for information, *the strongest would not break.* I broke, to a woman. It's not something I share to anyone. It's frankly emasculating and embarrassing and shameful. My ancestors who fought the death at least died well even if we were genocided for our refusal to submit. For centuries the rest of us are lingering on struggling to grasp at what little pride and hope we have after being subjicated.
> 
> My wife 4 years ago broke my pride in who I thought I was. Since then I've been meaning to relive it, to go through some kind of torture just so I can prove to myself that I will NOT break again. I don't know, all this is fked.


And who told you that ? You are wrong, and need to get that out of your head. I don't expect any of us to convince you, but you do need someone to lead you down that path.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

StargateFan said:


> And who told you that ? You are wrong, and need to get that out of your head. I don't expect any of us to convince you, but you do need someone to lead you down that path.


Perhaps, I don't know, I just know I still won't ever be able to forgive myself for it.


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## StargateFan (Nov 19, 2012)

JCD said:


> Anyone can break. Anyone. Don't think otherwise.
> 
> That someone you trusted WOULD do this to you is twice the betrayal. That someone did this twice...well...
> 
> In Escape and Evasion class for the military, they put the screws into the downed aviators...and they know it isn't real. *I'm sure some of THEM break too.*


No you are wrong. They *all* break. I had this conversation less than a year ago with a B-52 pilot on a Cub Scout camp out. That is the point of the training.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Everyone breaks, everyone. When interrogating the key is to break enough to get real facts but not so much that they start making crap up. EVERYONE breaks. Fear of death or dying is not what breaks, unrelenting, out of control, it's horrible now and it will get worse, pain and fear of that pain is what breaks. We can't stop our body's adrenalin response, we are preprogrammed to survive. And that's what you did. You said what you had to say and did what you had to do to survive and get out of that situation. That is noble, smart and brave.

You've discovered something about yourself you didn't know, something you think makes you less of a man. But you HAD been operating under a false assumption that being a man means no fear, overcome pain and super strength. That is false. That is how we think of masculine traits but you have taken them to an unrealistic idealized mountain top that no one can live up to.

You are trying to minimize what happened in an attempt to berate yourself. You are buying into HER taunts. Jesus this woman needs a jail cell!

When someone you love and trust, someone you think feels the same way about you, betrays you in such a destructive and visicious way you can't make sense of it, at first. So you blame yourself. If I hadn't... If I had only... Coulda shoulda woulda.... You gave her your trust, but luckily you spotted something early. You saw something that triggered the visceral memory of the first time. You TOOK CONTROL back by safe wording. You demanded she hear the word. Eventually she did and you remained safe. You did not chicken out, you got smart and trusted your instinct that something wasn't right. How badly would it have turned out had your doubted your instinct and held out longer? When she was further into her head and even less able to respond as she should. What would have been the outcome had you waited another few minutes? Even a worse scenario than the first event.

The hell with that marriage or reconciliation attempts. Go find another woman who exudes the qualities of sanity and doesn't need to subvert the qualities of the masculine. Go get laid!


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Thanks, I'll try to remind myself of that. I still feel the shame though but meh... can't do much about it, looks like I'll have to live with it for the rest of my life

As for my wife, she sent me a msg saying that we need to talk. Not one apology, so I'm not responding. If she doesn't apologise, in one week I'm going to give her a headsup that its over.

I don't know, all this is rather heartbreaking. I was looking forward to reconciliation and moving back together. I even wanted to have a renewal of vows with her which she bugged me about (cause we didn't have a proper wedding) within the first 2 yrs of marriage. Yet she didn't even seem to give a sh-t when I offered it again last year. Meh, she probably won't give a sh-t even now.

Hell I think I'm done with women and relationships. It's either sex or money. At least with money it's not so traumatic.


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## StargateFan (Nov 19, 2012)

I am sure you will thoroughly enjoy celibacy. 

A week? Where did you come up with that timeframe? Why not a month or two? Increase your odds even more. That's what you want. An apology from a psychopath. 

You are not going to have to "live with with it for the rest of your life". 

You are to smart for that melodramatic crap. I have read enough of your posts over the past couple of months to know that is not how this is going to go down for you. You are probably one of the smartest people on this board. 

You are going to grieve for a while, pick yourself back up, get the right kind of help, run your business, get custody of your daughter, get laid every now and then and in a few years when you are about healed you will find someone you want to hang with more often.

That is how it is going to go down. Otherwise she wins and will destroy you and likely your daughter. And you know it.

Have you slept yet ?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Yeah I slept at work for a few hours. I don't know anymore, I feel lost and my gut feels like its sinking. Think I'll just grief tonight, maybe kill some people on GTA for some relief then go to bed. Maybe watch some porn, *sighs* back to the hand.

Thanks though


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Yeah I slept at work for a few hours. I don't know anymore, I feel lost and my gut feels like its sinking. Think I'll just grief tonight, maybe kill some people on GTA for some relief then go to bed. Maybe watch some porn, *sighs* back to the hand.
> 
> Thanks though


Your hand won't shove a needle in a delicate place. Don't think of the good things you are losing...think of the BAD things you are getting out of your life.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Wait wait wait! You two have a daughter together?

Mr Dude, it was my wish and intention to be supportive and reassuring the way women do it. But now I'm going to have to pull up my my big girl panties and take the gloves off.

But before I say anything, how old is your daughter? How much time does she spend with you vs your wife? Who are the other significant adults in her life? How often does she see them?

I'm preparing to draw you a picture of what your adult daughter will likely be after spending so much time being raised by your psycho STB ex wife. I have to add in the variables of the other significant adults and it's possible that they wold have a decent impact on negating what the psycho will do to her development. At best, your daughter will be a mousy doormat. Unless she has a lot of natural spunk in which case she will likely be nearly as psycho as her mother, again depending on other significant adults.

This is why you need to get your **** together, grow big brass clanging things and put down some hard, unbreakable boundaries. You do not wait for her apology. Doesn't matter if it comes in five minutes or next month. She can't apologize for being a psycho. but you'll have to apologize for not being strong enough to keep distance from her so your daughter has a safe and loving place to be as respite from the mother with a twisted thought process that would allow her to do to you what she did. If she is capable of doing that to you, she is capable of much worse to a child, YES SHE IS!

Please answer my questions so I can finish berating you.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

She's 4, she spends the weekends with me and weekdays with her mother. It's better because she doesn't like it at my workplace and she's got school anyways. My family's dispersed and only my father is her extended family on my side, but she has a large extended family on her mother's which is fine except for my MIL - but she's been alot better compared to 4 years ago.

The thing is, this demon of hers I've only encountered once (or twice... if you count last night - but I wasn't hurt). But if you consider her demanding ways/sex addiction then I guess you can say I've lived with this demon for 70% of my marriage, and the other 30% is her good sides.

She is a very good mother otherwise and does live an active lifestyle even if it means spending all my money but she takes my daughter everywhere or drops her over at her friends to play with which I believe is good for her rather than being stuck at home. Besides my daughter loves her as much as she loves me, breaking up the family was extremely difficult last year. Giving up now despite our progress last 3 months is also hard but I'm also starting to see that this demon of hers is very much a big part of my wife even if it only truly manifested into something dangerous once or twice.

I don't know.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Giving up now despite our progress last 3 months is also hard but I'm also starting to see that this demon of hers is very much a big part of my wife even if it only truly manifested into something dangerous once or twice.
> 
> I don't know.


Ah 4's, the transition year! From babyhood to childhood in one measly year. 

right now I must get some sleep. I will reply again in about 6 hours time. In the meantime, can you spot the places where you have minimized what she's done? Now can you find where you have rationalized what shes done? Lastly, find where you mention ambivalence? Hint, Ive pasted above example of 1,2 and 3.

And please, no more spider pictures!!!!!I have not worked out that fear except for the spiders in my own back yard. No need to export new fears thankyouverymuch!
:sleeping:


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

I'll say it again. This woman has been abused, severely.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Okay, had a rest. Ready to begin to advocate for your daughter, cause that's what I do professionally. Sometimes, I have to slap a parent around in order to advocate for their child. Sometimes I have to take off blinders and rose tinted glasses to advocate the parent address a risk situation for their child. Usually, I don't have to be blunt because usually those parents come to me, or the place where I work, so they are already open. (Actually, used to work as I am recently retired and clearly I miss it otherwise I wouldn't be here writing to you.)

Your wife is an addict. What do you know about addicts? Do you fully appreciate how addiction prevents rational, reasonable thinking? I don't think you do. Otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation. I don't have time to lay that foundation so I'm going to continue on the assumption and trust that you will, on your own, learn about addiction in general, addiction in women and how a mother's addiction affects child development. Considering the ratio of men to women addicts is 80/20, finding info on mother addicts specifically will be hard. I'm not talking about the overt horrifying stories of the crack wh0re.*You will find lots of info and testimony from their daughters!* Please contemplate the significance of that statement.

Assuming you've completed your education mentioned just above you now have an appreciation for the thinking errors and relative functionality of the addict in general. Now we turn to the women sex addict specifically. 

Chances are pretty great she was raised in a highly dysfunctional emotionally traumatic environment. They may have been very functional in terms of keeping a job and paying bills, but relationship wise, they are major screw ups! Because in the classic sense, they are able to hold it together each subsequent generation, (your daughter for instance) is affected by continuing trauma and the unhealthy ways in which they hide the dysfunction. For instance, I'm betting you had some trauma abuse in your childhood and you haven't yet done the work to fully heal. Which is why you continue to go back to this relationship even though it is toxic. You are beginning to heal, which is why you are posting on this forum. This is good and needs to continue, but should not take the place of real face to face counseling.

A daughter raised by a woman who is an addict, a sex addict, is very likely to develop a skewed sense of appropriate boundaries. She is very likely to become sexually active at a very early age as a result of being exposed to inappropriate overt sexuality. Our western culture will likely assist in your daughters non-sequential development.

A daughter raised by a mother who is a sex addict is at very high risk for being molested. Too much time alone caused by mother seeking sex partners and needing privacy to feed their addiction; not enough emotional connection with her mother caused by a mother who is unable to form healthy connections as a result of early relational trauma which caused/fueled/associated with her sex addiction; skewed sense of boundaries caused by mother modeling overt sexualized behavior or dress; early sexualization caused by simple exposure to all of the above all contribute to those risk factors. Add to that, the family dynamics of hiding trauma and you have a very high risk factor indeed.

At this point, I think I should stop. More info would be over kill.

You can, all by yourself, break this pattern for your daughter. But first you must be healthy enough to engage in this battle. A healthy you will recognize the toxicity of the relationship you have with your wife. A healthy you will recognize AND take appropriate steps to detach from this relationship. A healthy you will seek support designed to help you recognize and detach. <-- this is where the brass clangy thing enter the picture because this is HARD to do.

Step one, go dark and stay that way.

Step two, redirect thoughts away from her. You could accomplish this by learning more about addiction, enabling, codependency, and detachment.

Step three, rely on honesty with those who can help you, your therapist for instance.

I encourage you to post back with your, no doubt instinctive, reaction to minimize your wife's issues and how they seem to be getting better.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well, my wife and I have never expose our sexuality in front of our child either than your usual signs of affection. I also seriously doubt she's capable of molesting my daughter and my daughter hasn't shown any signs of following after mum, she follows after me, and we're going to the pet store today - just thinking right now how to pick her up without confronting my wife.

My wife has her demons and I was a fool to trigger it. She's REALLY good at keeping it under wraps, which I admit, is making me a bit wary considering V-day and before. But I don't know - we have made progress last 3 months except for this fk up, as of right now, I'm going in the dark as you suggested, nothing else I can really do, and try to have a good weekend with my daughter, and make a decision later.

I don't know where my wife's demon came from nor does she, it seems to have had a hold of her since some teenage esteem issues and went from there. She was an escort years before I met her, counselling/confessions has not revealed any trauma from it. So it's all one big mystery.

We are both doing IC and MC and her IC is a specialist in sex addiction. Hence there has been progress last 3 months. I don't know if I should give all of this up yet... I still remember 3 months ago someone from this forum did mention that we would fk up, one of us would, or both, it's inevitable; nothing is smooth sailing.

I don't know... I can't make a decision yet, it's too soon.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> I also seriously doubt she's capable of molesting my daughter and my daughter hasn't shown any signs of following after mum, ...


I have not been clear enough. It is not your wife who will do the molesting. It will be someone else; one of your wife's lovers or subsequent SO's, one of her platonic friends, a neighbor, the parent of one of your daughter's friends, an uncle, an aunt, a grandfather, the SO of one of these people, a teacher, a coach and yes even a therapist or a priest. We can't possibly predict who, but we can reliably predict the likeliness of it happening, statistically speaking. (and in this point I beg you to trust that I know what I'm talking about because it was my job to know these kinds of statistics.) Stop thinking of who, think of how it might happen. How your daughter might be more or less of a target. Think of how you can arm her and teach her about boundaries.

I haven't gotten into the age specific risks because right now your daughter's risks are centered on family members and baby sitters or SO's of those people. The older she gets, the wider the predator pool gets.




RandomDude said:


> My wife has her demons and I was a fool to trigger it. She's REALLY good at keeping it under wraps,


*Self recrimination* followed by *minimizing*. Stop it! 

It is not your fault that you trusted her. But from this point on, it will be. It doesn't matter how well she functions to the outside world. It doesn't matter how well she functions as a mother. Sex addicts have deep affectation trouble with attachments. All attachments. Right now what you see seem appropriate, but as your daughter gets older this will change because the nature of parenting a 4 year old is vastly different than a 10 year old or a 13 year old. And heed this warning, an addict parenting a teenager will trigger everything!




RandomDude said:


> Hence there has been progress last 3 months. I don't know if I should give all of this up yet...



*Excusing* her behavior, stop it! *Minimizing* the effects of her behavior on you just because you see progress in her, stop it! We are focusing on your daughter. Not your wife. Your daughter is the one who will be most severely affected by your wife and so I am begging you to get healthy so you can protect your daughter. Once you are healthy, or well on your way, you will know what to do and how to do it. There wont be ambivalence.




RandomDude said:


> I don't know where my wife's demon came from nor does she, it seems to have had a hold of her since some teenage esteem issues and went from there. She was an escort years before I met her, counselling/confessions has not revealed any trauma from it. So it's all one big mystery.


*Rationalizing and denying*, stop it.
Mysteries are fun to contemplate and try to solve. But in this case by contemplating them and attempting to solve them you continue to take ownership on something you don't own. Ultimately, it doesn't matter how, why or who. It only matter that you get healthy and that means you focus on you.





RandomDude said:


> We are both doing IC and MC and her IC is a specialist in sex addiction.



I'm glad to here that she is seeing a specialist. But until you are recovered, have done your learning, have gained back your perspective and stopped buying into her taunts, I urge you to cancel marriage counseling. Again you need to focus on you. Ask your therapist's advice on this.





RandomDude said:


> I don't know... I can't make a decision yet, it's too soon.


There is no need for you to make a decision right now. Just follow the steps of getting healthy until you are strong enough to make a firm "I believe in this and feel good about this" decision.



RandomDude said:


> I'm going in the dark as you suggested, nothing else I can really do, and try to have a good weekend with my daughter, and make a decision later.



Excellent. This is exactly what you need to do to get your head on straight. Enjoy your weekend!


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Her sex addiction has been there for years, she was an escort before I met her; unlike others in her trade during her youth however she didn't do it for the money which was rather troubling. I've never judged her until I realised her past isn't fully buried. She is fully aware of her issues but never coined it as sex addiction. 

Furthermore she did try to combat it even if I personally disagree with her relying on faith in her God. Nonetheless, her case is rather specific to herself as an individual hence I had my hands off helping her work through them either than just being there for her.

Regardless, we did have a chat about this last night. It's still "sorry but...", she refuses to own up to what she did, except for her texts which she admitted were rather lame and hurtful. However she continues to insist that all she wanted was for me to trust her again and that her guilt affects her as well. I told her disobeying safewords doesn't exactly really inspire trust but she repeatedly reminds me that she let me go anyways and that I'm making a big deal over this.

She denies that she lost control. *sigh*
Frankly I don't know...

A part of me just wants to chalk all of this up as just yet again just another misunderstanding but meh, told her that I need my space. She tells me that I should stop pushing her away... meh, whatever. I really don't know.


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Her lack of taking ownership for ignoring the safe word until you yelled is a big red flag. Be safe, don't put yourself in a vulnerable position with her again. She has not earned your trust. Trust is given freely the first time, secound time you earn it, third time don't know that you can ever get it back. Just my opinion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree and put BDSM off the table. This has really robbed me of my desire for her though. Since seperation we've been on the same page until now. Now I just don't konw what to do.


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## StargateFan (Nov 19, 2012)

If during her escort years one of her clients had held her captive against her will, but eventually let her go "anyways" what would she have done? I assume she had some sort of protection and was not freelance. Even if she didn't, would it have been "no big deal" ? 

Misunderstanding? You are smarter than that.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Talking about her past tends to get her claws out, she hates discussing it or anything relating to it. She definitely had protection by law not just to ensure the lawful conduct of her clients but also her clients' medical standards - hence she's clean, which was rather ironic cause she fked more guys then most of women yet never had an STD.

She's extremely secretive about her past and very selective of what she lets out. I suspected abuse for a long time but she continues to deny it insisting that she was well protected. I don't know what to believe, she's just annoying me.

Bah, this song describes perfectly how I feel about her now:
Alice Cooper - Poison Official Music Video - YouTube


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

High end escorts are paid better than architects...because few girls grow up their entire lives wanting to be escorts.

It is a degrading profession in some ways, having your sexuality sublimated by the desires of the client. A lack of control...which she now wants to take out on you.

I mean...this SEEMS pretty basic, isn't it?

If feels like you are being punished for the past she hides from you.

Eh. Don't listen to me. I'm not a professional. I would check with her IC that SHE/HE knows about her past. Many people for whatever reason don't tell their counselors the full truth about their pasts so helping them is much harder.

I would also say 1) cancel MC for now. Don't DO anything, but why waste money? 2) YOU go to her IC and you tell her what happened in that first session where your wife tortured you...and what happened on Valentine's Day from your perspective.

Lack of information isn't helping anyone here.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Hmmm... I guess I can, wife may go bonkers though. Oh well, truth hurts doesn't it? Might do it tomorrow and see what happens.

At least I have my cat now to keep me company... well except tonight... he's in hiding for some reason and when I tried to catch him he runs... bah, he'll come when he's hungry. Not going to play that game tonight.


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## StargateFan (Nov 19, 2012)

Just put out a cat trap. 

An open shoebox.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Heh he seems to like to play chase and hide and seek this one, might try a trap. Anyways, today is when I snitch to my wife's IC... why am I doing this again? Hell is this even a good idea come to think of it?


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Heh he seems to like to play chase and hide and seek this one, might try a trap. Anyways, today is when I snitch to my wife's IC... why am I doing this again? Hell is this even a good idea come to think of it?


If your wife told him what she she did, there is no harm. If your wife is hiding things from her therapist, how is she supposed to get better? It's like not telling your doctor that every time you drink anything with sugar, you pass out.

She isn't being forthright and honest with you. Why do you think she's being honest and forthright to him/her?

But you don't need to do this. You have other options. Sleep VERY lightly. Divorce her. Accept the fact that she'll occasionally torture you and call you a little girl if you complain.


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## StargateFan (Nov 19, 2012)

RD, in some respects my opinion is no, because she is toxic to you. 

On the other hand, you seem to be leaning towards continuing the relationship if you two can get past this incident. Whatever the outcome she will likely have at least some role in your daughter's life. At the minimum for the health of your daughter she needs help and you feel she is not totaly open to the IC. Therefor she is not really getting help.

So bottom line you are doing the right thing. It is up to the IC to act or not act on the input you provide. You are not snitching on her to the police, though you know my opinion on that. 

Read Anon Pink's posts again if you are doubting yourself.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Hmmm alright, ok I'll probably start off with just asking the IC about my wife and then snitch as innocently as I can and see the response. Big day today at work but I have time in the arvo unless all hell goes to sh-t or something which I doubt.

Thanks guys, I'll update once I get some results.


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## StargateFan (Nov 19, 2012)

Good plan RD. The IC is sure to give you lots of confidential information about your wife. In the US they yank licenses for that.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Same here, but I don't need her verbal response 
True, she can be a poker face too, but meh, I'll see.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Go read IndyTMI's thread here about his LD wife. You two could start a support group.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

=/
My wife has HD problems and his has LD problems. How can we possibly start a support group? lol


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Had a phone chat with her IC, she couldn't meet me today. However, based on limited phone-interrogation skills (sighs), here's what I can confirm:

- My wife has been in IC
- IC was not surprised at all at my revelation

And that's all I can extract out of her at this point. I don't know


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## Adex (Aug 1, 2012)

I just read the original post. I don't know why any man would want to be tied up and dominated. Now dominating the girl, that's a turn on.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Cause it takes two to play, if I can't do it to her unless I allow the same.


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## StargateFan (Nov 19, 2012)

You could have told her your new cat pants like a dog and plays fetch and she would not act surprised.  They play it cool. You know she is at a minimum going through the motions.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well, if my wife has already told her IC of what happened, not so sure if she gave the details... and yet she chooses to continue to be stubborn and refuse to apologise (don't know what her IC advised her in), meh I don't know.

With everything that has happened this incident could be seen as just a one scenario that we have to sweep under the rug and agree to disagree but how many incidents like this have we already swept over the years? I really don't know, divorce seems alot easier financially now even if I'm losing my house, the challenge is my daughter, she really wants us to be a family again - and judging by her behaviour she's not very happy being passed around like a ping-pong ball, when there's daddy there's no mummy, when there's mummy there's no daddy.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Such a waste really


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

You can't sweep sh*t under a rug. It stinks ups the room and it's unhealthy.


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## StargateFan (Nov 19, 2012)

Yep, I went through divorces at 7 and 13. Not good. She will need IC also, if that occurs. That has to be weighed against the other probable outcomes. The prevalient view here on TAM is divorce is better than a toxic home environment. I can say neither situation is good.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> =/
> My wife has HD problems and his has LD problems. How can we possibly start a support group? lol


The women are different. It's the men I'm looking at...


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

CANT MAKE A DECISION!

Was easier last year, but she made so much progress why the FK do we have to FK up now. *sigh* She's sending me txts that she misses me and for me to call her but I think she got the hint to leave me alone. She doesn't seem to suspect I'm actually thinking of moving on, hmmm... maybe that's the thing.

Considering when I became serious about divorce she dropped everything and came to me, she probably thinks I won't do it anymore considering all that she's done and all that I've reassured her. Funny how no good deed goes unpunished. So she remains stubborn. Stubborn is good at times, but not in this.

*sigh*


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## StargateFan (Nov 19, 2012)

What decision do you need to make right now? 

She is making the decision for you. For the moment.

Btw. What is all this progress she has recently made?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Whether I let this drive a wedge between us or if we get back to reconciliation and bypass this incident.



RandomDude said:


> She has been cooperative since seperation, she went to counselling on her own initiative, our sex life had zero issues, she signed a fking postnup...


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

StargateFan said:


> What decision do you need to make right now?
> 
> She is making the decision for you. For the moment.
> 
> Btw. What is all this progress she has recently made?


This is a control issue..if you drop it she takes back control. She has to take ownership of her actions wait for the apology.. O n e thIng you mentIoned Is that she says she wasn't rver mistreated (abused) as an escourt....her behavior doesn't support this. People that have been abused and who don't get theraphy turn out one of two ways ...as an over loving person or an abuser they usually go to one or the other extreme. She appears to be the abuser...you can't fix her ....only she can fix her. She has no buisness in a relationship until she gets her stuff straightened out. Stand strong and let her come to you...you need to set her bounderies for her. She is not someone that can ever have control...don't let that passive act fool you again...it is a manipulative trap. I believe they used to call these ladies black widows...they have been abused and they become abusers in turn. In the exteme cases the have been known to kill their partners in their rage fog. Not that she would kill you, but I have the feeling she would hurt you she seems to get off on your fear from what you hsve said of her history. Be safe, don't take chances.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

You do understand that your wife is mentally ill. Probably dangerously so?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## StargateFan (Nov 19, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Whether I let this drive a wedge between us or if we get back to reconciliation and bypass this incident.


I was a little obtuse previously. She is driving the wedge right now, check your texts. You rightfully need space and time after what she did, you communicated that to her and she is not honoring your requests. Sound familiar?

Why does a decision need to be made RIGHT NOW? You are still in the fog of heavy trauma. Not a good time to make any major decision. 

Great she started IC on her own. The kind of issues she has to work on have to measured in years not months. Yes that sucks because your daughter is growing up fast, changes for her are measured in months.

You have absolutely no control over the speed of Mrs. RD's recovery. You have limited control over your own. What control You have over your daughter's future depends largely on whether you seize that control or surrender it. That is a big decision, that should take weeks or months of thought and planning, not days.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Ok... so what should I do at present? Just play cool, be nice but refuse to do anything with her until I have an apology? It's been almost a week without sex now too.

So it's the waiting game now eh? See who breaks first? *sigh*
Tempted to start flirting around and having someone else so I can get this rotten taste of BDSM out of my mouth, memory is still fresh in my mind and kinda robs me of all desire to even be near my wife.

But meh, its just thoughts, not going to do it. Not yet...


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

You are overthinking it. 'Just play cool...but refuse until apology', 'Seeing who breaks first' are bad ideas and just foster resentment.

She is in conselling, good. You need to let that play out and (sorry - I didnt read all this) are you talking with someone too? Its not like you both can just perform some magic trick and this gets 'fixed' over the course of a week.

If I were you I would give myself permission to 'simply' drop the BDSM from the menu for now - and you both need to be fine with that. Until you can claw back some level of trust, whats the point? 

If you cant do that...


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## StargateFan (Nov 19, 2012)

In the big picture a week is very very small. If you can't go a few weeks or months for that matter without some bump and grind, bring that up in your IC. If you can't do that, you are doomed my friend. 

Write her a letter expressing your feelings, have a talk on neutral ground with her if you must. Set it up so it does not lead to bump and grind. No f'ing alchohol. Probably best with her IC or your MC. 

The minute you two jump in the sack without some resolution it is all over my friend. She will be back in control and be able to frame the debate from there. You know the routine. 180, focus on yourself, daughter and job. 

Your discussion with her needs to be "your problems are toxic for me and you need to work very hard on your issues before I can let you back in to my world." Not, "I am sorry, please let me back in so I can regain your trust. This was just a big misunderstanding"

Were your ancestors strong against their oppressors or did they just roll over and cave?


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Careful putting things to pen and paper they can come back to haunt you later if you end up in court. Just saying be careful what you write and sign your name too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## StargateFan (Nov 19, 2012)

mineforever said:


> Careful putting things to pen and paper they can come back to haunt you later if you end up in court. Just saying be careful what you write and sign your name too.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good point.

Guess that is the same for digital comm also.


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## All of a sudden (Jan 24, 2013)

I would never hurt someone i loved while playing sex games. They are suppose to be enjoyable to both parties. Your wife sounds like she enjoys hurting you. Even if she seems like she is doing better in ic and blah blah blah. She hasnt changed one bit. She tried to pull the same shet again.

That is not love no matter what angle you look at it. Its twisted.

I would be wary letting her raise my daughter, she sounds like a sociopath.

RUN


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

She only did it once before marriage out of revenge over a rather bad fight, and that's over 7 years of knowing her. She has expressed guilt and regret, and has since agreed to no BDSM until V-day when I lifted the prohibitions. Hell of a restart - cause it got banned again. BDSM is off the table, my wife's problem is refusing to acknowledge what she did was wrong, "sorry but" just doesn't cut it for me when it comes to ignoring safewords (which she denies she ignores simply because she did let me go - only after I yelled at her)

She keeps insisting that she would never do what she did again and that she's angry because the night was ruined and that I didn't trust her. She somehow does not seem to understand that if one of us can't respect safewords; trust is just... pfft.

Bah! I don't know


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Ok, just reflecting a bit... just thinking outloud...

My wife always claimed that she wasn't abused, and seems to have convinced herself (and me) that she was always in control. Why do I get the feeling that it sounds more like her "control" is more of an illusion that she has convinced herself in?

She claims to have enjoyed her time as an escort before I met her, and I have always sensed both shame and pride at the same time whenever she admited it; in response over the years I've tried to let her go of her shame by accepting her and encouraging her pride by appreciating her sexually. She has had orgasms with many other men, being their object of desire, enjoyed the 'humilitation' even yet still upholds her disturbing illusion of 'control'. It also translates from her favourite position to our makeup sex dynamics, her rape fantasies seems to be the deepest core of her sexuality.

But... that's common even amongst healthy couples. So what's going on? Still... if it is what I think it is: Do you think that she's deliberately lying via omission (guess to herself even maybe?) in regards to possible abuse? (Have to put two and two together here)

Coping mechanism via a false pretense of control. No?

Am I just thinking sh-t up thanks to my recent sexual indifference with my wife? Or is this a possibility that I have to be mindful of, and if so... I think I would have to let her go. Considering I've done nothing but accept her sexuality throughout the years of our relationship I've only made the problems worse. Or is she just normal?

I've never stuck around with a woman for this long before, 7 years!!! She's all I know really, the women in my past were never in this deep
Bah it sucks to be young and stupid and inexperienced


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Normal, healthy women do not fvck men for money unless there is a reason like drugs, abuse (emotional or physical) or extreme poverty.

I also don't believe rape fantasies are common among married couples.

You two have become skilled rug sweepers. You both have convinced yourself that this is just something she enjoyed doing. Right. Maybe she's the exception but somehow I doubt that.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

And she didn't even do it for the money which makes the whole thing just disturbing. Hmmm...

I think I've realised I'm wasting time trying to tame a tigress. I have to let her out in the wild. I'm not helping her by keeping her. When my people let our eagles go free, sometimes they come back, but we don't take them back, they have to fly on their own as hard as it is for us to reject them.

This will be dismissing our reconciliation, and heading towards divorce.
But truthfully, is this what is going on? I guess having my sexual desire for my wife being stripped right down to zero has really changed how I see the whole situation now.


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

One more thing RD. Normal, healthy men don't marry escorts either.

You were abused too which is why she was perfect for you.

You spoke the same language of neglect.

Can you see that?


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Everything you have said screams "control obsession", this kind of obsession normally manifests itself when there has been abuse...usually where the victim had no control over what was happening to them. That being said it makes what she is claiming ab o ut no abuse not ring true to me. I definately think she is lying about enjoying the escourt time...average normal girls don't beconme escourts for the fun of it. Where is the fun in humiliation and being used. I think she has a lot in her past that you have no insight too. Like I said befor she has no business in a relationship right now...she needs to go to a IC and get her stuff together first. It is too bad she didn't do this befor your marriage. You can't fix her, she has to want to fit herself and that means admitting she has a problem. Unfortunately most people never learn that "control"is really an illusion, none of us has complete control of our lives....bad things happen no matter how hard we try to prevent them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

She wasn't an escort when I met her, I have a past that only my wife knows about as well, hence why I never judged her for it. Probably why we're so co-dependent is because we're the only ones who accept each other.

Regardless I know I'm not normal either, which is good, but I also had no idea she was this nuts when I married her - the nymphomania never happened before marriage. Bait and switch perhaps. Anyways it's going to sting quite a bit for both of us if I call all of this off, and let us move our seperate ways and limit our contact to what is necessary as coparents and that's it.

Failing at reconciliation and going back on the path of divorce is not something that she'll want to hear but meh, maybe I'll get lucky and she'll go "ok fine!" No tears, no dramas, plain and simple... heh if only that ever happens when you ditch someone.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

mineforever said:


> Everything you have said screams "control obsession", this kind of obsession normal manifests itself when abuse...usually where the victim had no control over what was happening to them. That being said it makes what she is claiming not ring true. I definately think she is lying enjoying the escourt time...average normal girls don't beconme escourts for the fun of it normally. I think she has a lot in her past that you have no insight too. Like I said befor she has no business in a relationship right now...she needs to go to a IC and get her stuff together first. It is too bad she didn't do this befor your marriage. You can't fix her, she has to want to fit herself and that means admitting she has a problem. Unfortunately most people never learn that "control"is really an illusion, none of us has complete control of our lives....bad things happen no matter how hard we try to prevent them.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So I guess what I reflected actually made some sense? :scratchhead:

Yeah, I know I can't fix her now, but as her husband I'm still an influence and unfortunately I don't think I can be of positive influence to her anymore. I've embraced her sexuality when I should have helped her embrace more of who she is without this crazy sex demon of hers.

I guess she needs her nunnery. Normally I'm all for liberation and acceptance of sexuality, but... when it comes to my wife, what she really needs is SELF-DISCIPLINE. She has gotten better over the years, and especially since reconciliation but the demon is still there. I can't help with that when I'm fking her.


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Hang in there...don't beat yourself up we all have things in our past we're not to proud of. You sound like a good person who really wants to do right for your family. Only you can make that decision, I really wish you and her the best whatever you two decide. You never know maybe you separating will be the catalyst that prompts her to get the help she needs.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

She is getting the help she needs but she's not biting so to speak. 
Like my daughter, had to be so patient with her, going through the discipline of waiting for her to finish her food before she ever goes do something else.

I've been enabling my wife by my own emotions and impatience wanting my family back together again and everything I do that leads towards divorce just makes me feel like I'm betraying my daughter everytime. I know the whole "kids are better in a non-toxic environment" thing but damn if only my wife and I could have a good marriage without all this BS I could give her the childhood I never had. Bah, I've been holding onto it for too long, I trusted her changes because I wanted to believe in hope, I believed what I wanted to believe.

But it looks like just as I'm disciplining my daughter to finish her food, I have to go through the same discipline myself. I don't think it's wise to take another step towards reconciliation unless the sex is stopped for good. She has to go cold turkey, reach rock bottom, and unless I want to break her heart I will have to reach rock bottom myself, no sex, remaining loyal.

But I don't know, just how I'm seeing things at present, it looks a little grim.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

"Am I just thinking sh-t up thanks to my recent sexual indifference with my wife?"

probably. Looking for answers is a more gentle way to put it. Face it - you aren't in her head and never will be - so speculating on her internal deamons may not be all that helpful when all you are doing is generating internal turmoil for yorself and not really solving anything.

"she has gotten better over the years"

Thats good, right? Setbacks happen. Fact.

Have you talked with her therapist by yourself - is that allowed? Maybe he/she would have some suggestions or strategies that might help you feel like you are participating a bit more or help you understand what is going on a bit better or be more helpful with recognizing situations that arise, etc.


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## StargateFan (Nov 19, 2012)

StargateFan said:


> How many retired lion tamers do you know?


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Your wife needs to heal for her sake and for your daughter's sake. I'm sure you don't want your daughter growing up messed up about sex like your wife is.

If that means you have to divorce in order to make your wife admit that she's not "fine" and needs to do years worth of work with a skilled therapist, so be it. Your daughter's well-being is at stake.

If you sweep it under the rug and reconcile just to "save" your marriage, not only will this rear its ugly head over and over again, but your daughter will learn this behavior is how relationships are supposed to be. And that would be tragic for her.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

You seem to have a habit of making excuses for and rationalizing your wife's dysfunctionality. Very little about her sounds "normal" or even honest going by this thread.


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