# wife left me day 1



## Nice Guys Finish Last (Jan 4, 2010)

I'm now sitting here in a half empty house. It's an odd feeling, it's like a bad dream that I can't wake up from. It's really happening. My love has walked out on me. I've been on an emotional roller coaster since late Oct.
Thats when she told me that she was thinking of divorce and that she'd be leaving in January. 

I love my wife, I'm a good guy, I won't even consider cheating, I'm not abusive verbally or mentally. I don't play games, we always are able to work out our problems and don't go to bed mad.

I am still stunned about what has happened. She says we don't connect emotionally, don't communicate. She says she needs time to figure herself out. She seems to be a totally different person that I've never known. I'm very confused. 

Someone at lunch had commented that one cannot honestly truly be happy in a relationship unless they are happy with themselves.

She said that our whole relationship has been a lie. So basically i've been living in a dream for the last 5 years, 2 of which we are married. we even got remarried recently and have been trying to have children. 

We are both busy people, but even though i'm a dense dumb guy, i still live and learn and make adjustments, thats just life. She's been busy all year, and when she finally got unbusy I've realized that we've changed roles. I'm now the one wanting to spend time and just be together. 

Earlier in our relationship, she said that I wasn't giving her what she needed, (quality time, physical touch) I'd just play games, watch tv, study for work etc. so she put up a wall, a wall that would she would just continue building to tell herself that she doesn't need what she wants. The wall has gotten so tall that she isn't able to see over it or move it. She's like a totally different person. We're on opposite sides of the lets stay married spectrum. (she stopped going to marriage counseling after two sessions, but says she'll continue again later after being moved)
I got the I love you but I'm not in love with you bit there.

It's like some sort of identity crisis she's going through and the only way she can figure it out is to move out. I volunteered to give her space etc....to no avail. She says she needs to do this. There is nothing I can do. I've started to see a counselor myself in the meantime.

We just went through the most akward holidays ever. At least the families were being nice.

I really want things to work out, but at the same time I think its messed up that we both have to move and I have to wait for her to make up her mind as to if she wants to stay married or not. 

I mean who wants to start over again? i dont. (with dating, relationship building etc.)

I'm so confused, I'm dying on the inside, I don't know what to say, and I know the only thing left to do is wait. (time will tell and time will heal i guess) I really do love her and this is killing me.

She's calling it a trial separation, so i guess thats positive. but i dont want to be strung along. I dont deserve that.

gonna go to work and try to forget about it. its so hard to stay positive.

thx for reading the rant, had to get it off my chest.


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## SoxMunkey (Jan 1, 2010)

I've said it once, and I surely don't mind saying it again. Men DO love their wives and we do know how to love. We are not the mindless and carefree drones that we have been made out to be.

I swear that there is something in the water. What is is with all of these broken relationships around the holidays?! Why is it so difficult to communicate before things get to this point? What is this, "I need space" or, "I need time to find myself crap"? Why does this always have to hit us over the head like a huge rock that just fell off of the side of a mountain?

I don't understand. How many times have we heard... "I wish that I had a good man to take care of me and love me"? Yet, when there is one right there sleeping next to you every night, we're pushed away?

Ladies, it goes the same for you too in where the tables are turned. I just don't understand this.

NGFL... take a good look around this board and read what others have had to say. You will surely see that you are NOT alone in this department. It's like an epidemic that's hitting as hard as the swine flu.

All I can say is what I've always said, keep your head high and take it day by day. Over time, it gets easier. There is nothing that you can say that is going to change her mind. You are forced to walk away and sit outside confused and wondering if things will improve and if she will want you again. It's a horrible way to live, but you are not alone. I'm in the same boat you are.

Keep posting here and keep reading what others have posted. Just knowing that you are not alone and reading over other's experiences might help lessen your pain a little.


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## dumped4another (Dec 16, 2009)

Hey NGFL, 
You know, I should have your user name as mine!! I have to agree 100% with DS. It is like an epidemic. I'm new to this board, but everyday, someone new has the same tragic story. I've been going to a therapist for a couple of months now, and she told me that the tides have changed. I'm 40, and growing up, I always heard that it was always the man cheating on the wife. I remember telling myself that I wouldn't be one of those guys. Well, the playing field is level now. NGFL, a lot of us on this board are in the boat with you, men and women alike. It's certainly not a place any of us want to be, but here it is. Like DS said, try to keep your head up, and take it day by day. Vent all you want on here. There's like hundreds of us willing to listen and willing to help you get through this. Read all the posts, you'll see you are definitely not alone. I've gotten through the past year (my W and I have been together 17 years) by surrounding myself with family, friends, being active, and going back to church. I've never been all too religious, but I've discovered the healing powers of prayer. You probably don't want to hear this, but it does get better with time. Believe me, it does. We all just wish we could fast-forward to the good parts! Hang in there, my man. You will be stronger after all the smoke has cleared. Just know that you are in my thoughts and prayers and I wish all the best for you.


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## noideato20 (Oct 27, 2009)

I am so on the same page with yall. What is going on here? Is it the water? Its like that movie the invasion. I have said it before they are like pod people. All the same story dont love you, dont want to work through it, need space, complete emotional withdrawl. Im so sorry for you. Nice guys do not finish last. You hang in there and run the race. At least you are not quitting in the middle. I know you are hurting right now, sometimes the pain and rejection is indescribable. We are here for you, to listen to you and we are here to be on YOUR side. You will come out of this. All of us will.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cpt_confused (Dec 29, 2009)

NGFL,

Your story is an echo of my story... I really feel for you. I can at least tell you some things that I am doing to help me cope..

Read - I have read every online book about making up, wife's midlife crisis, how to save a marriage, etc. While I dont agree with all the advise I have read, there are common themes that resonate.

Try to take care of yourself - eat right (this is the hardest thing for me to do - I can hardly eat at all, but I force myself) and exercise at least every other day... it helps you feel better about you.

Keep posting and reading here - we are all going through this together and we are all here for each other..


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## Nice Guys Finish Last (Jan 4, 2010)

Thanks Dreaded Soulja, cpt confused, dumped, noideato, I really appreciate the support. I'm really cannot believe what has happened to me, all of us. Its really sudden. A real life changer, a real game changer. Life as you know it is so different.

I have been an independent person before her and I know I can be now because I have to be. the thing is, I chose to need her, but i guess she didn't choose me. its a hard pill to swallow, and its going down sideways. 

she loves me but shes not IN love with me. wow.

i will go back to church, i think it could help, but only after i get settled back in. I mean i just converted to her religion! took a freakin year and this is part of the thanks i get. 

I know i have been emotionally neglectful to her emotions and needs and contributed to a wall between us, but i have tried and tried and realized the error of my ways and I made/make adjustments...i'm not perfect by any means, but i'm a hell of a nice guy, thoughtful, willing to put my ass on the line when needed , dependable, caring, financially responsible, have a hell of a job, work hard, and the list goes on....i became a better person because i wanted to and she helped.....
i just dont understand it.....its so difficult for me right now.

one thing random comes to mind, i said i'd die for her one day and she said never say that. you're too devoted to me.....

i guess that was an early sign about 6 months ago? 

im dying on the inside, i'm still in disbelief.

I cant believe that the same story is happening to so many people on a daily basis.


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## Help239 (Oct 20, 2009)

Been there, doing that. After 3 months from where you are currently, I am now sitting in a half empty house - as in half of the stuff was taken. Believe me when I say it can go from bad to worse in the blink of an eye.

I empathize with you and wish you the best.

I will keep you in my prayers.


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## dumped4another (Dec 16, 2009)

Hey NGFL,
You know, I read the part about you saying you'd die for her and that you're "too devoted," whatever that means, the thing is, it always sneaks up on ya. It did me. How it happened to me was my wife started to ask if she could go out. We lived a domesticated life, get up, go to work, come home, fix dinner, help daughter w homework, watch TV, go to bed, repeat. When it came to going out, it was usually me going out with the guys to watch a ballgame and it seemed that we were content with what we built from scratch. I didn't mind her going out with her friends from work, in fact, I was almost pushing her out the door. I thought it was a good thing for her. Then it became more and more frequent. She'd always be sketchy on the details. Finally, she hit me with the "I love you but.." thing and my whole burned down around me. As it turned out, through some pretty good detective work, she was going out on dates with someone all along. Brother, devastated is too nice a word to describe how I felt. I've been a good husband to her, like you, everyone tells me I'm the nicest guy they've ever met, and very responsible. Now 11 months later, we're still in the house because of finances, her boyfriend left his wife for mine, she goes out on dates sometimes 3-4 times a week RIGHT UNDER MY NOSE! You can only imagine what the holidays were like! I guess my point is, I thought at first that I'd never be able to go on living without my W. But I'm coping, almost numb to it. Can't wait to get out of this damn house and the divorce final. It's a long, rocky, treacherous road ahead of you. Stay the course. Take care of yourself. Read the other posts. It's therapy. Soon enough, you'll be the one giving the advice! All the best to you.


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## wontgiveup (Jan 6, 2010)

Hi to all you men it happens to us women to all i did was work and love my husband but he couldn`t see that. Im doing one day at a time and never saying never. I hope we can sort it. If you cant move on be positive and new love will find you. Good luck


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## Nice Guys Finish Last (Jan 4, 2010)

dumped4another said:


> Hey NGFL,
> You know, I read the part about you saying you'd die for her and that you're "too devoted," whatever that means, the thing is, it always sneaks up on ya. It did me. How it happened to me was my wife started to ask if she could go out. We lived a domesticated life, get up, go to work, come home, fix dinner, help daughter w homework, watch TV, go to bed, repeat. When it came to going out, it was usually me going out with the guys to watch a ballgame and it seemed that we were content with what we built from scratch. I didn't mind her going out with her friends from work, in fact, I was almost pushing her out the door. I thought it was a good thing for her. Then it became more and more frequent. She'd always be sketchy on the details. Finally, she hit me with the "I love you but.." thing and my whole burned down around me. As it turned out, through some pretty good detective work, she was going out on dates with someone all along. Brother, devastated is too nice a word to describe how I felt. I've been a good husband to her, like you, everyone tells me I'm the nicest guy they've ever met, and very responsible. Now 11 months later, we're still in the house because of finances, her boyfriend left his wife for mine, she goes out on dates sometimes 3-4 times a week RIGHT UNDER MY NOSE! You can only imagine what the holidays were like! I guess my point is, I thought at first that I'd never be able to go on living without my W. But I'm coping, almost numb to it. Can't wait to get out of this damn house and the divorce final. It's a long, rocky, treacherous road ahead of you. Stay the course. Take care of yourself. Read the other posts. It's therapy. Soon enough, you'll be the one giving the advice! All the best to you.


wow, that sounds very difficult to deal with. i'm sorry man.


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## Inturmoil (Sep 22, 2009)

Reading everyone's situation I think if someone doesn't know us seperately we could all be the same guy! It does seem to be a pattern lately....must be something in the water. I'm 5 months into it and numb to the whole situation. We too are living in the same house and I am just to the point of wishing it was over. Best of luck to you all!


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## Hopeful_wife (Nov 6, 2009)

My husband and I are going through this now too. He was feeling the way your wife is, and I would play you in the story. He said we don't communicate, nothing in common, he needed time, etc. Well, after a while, that's what happened. He got time. I had time to find myself as well. Now, I'm not going to say this will happen to you, but he recently told me that he wanted to work on things again. You can read my other posts and see how dire my situation looked, so you know that things can turn around. Just give her the time she needs. I pushed my husband at first and it made things worse. Take the time to find yourself again. It will help you pass the time and help your wife see that you're able to enjoy yourself without her company and show that you're not too needy or dependent on her for your happiness. I wish you the best.


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## Nice Guys Finish Last (Jan 4, 2010)

Hopeful_wife said:


> My husband and I are going through this now too. He was feeling the way your wife is, and I would play you in the story. He said we don't communicate, nothing in common, he needed time, etc. Well, after a while, that's what happened. He got time. I had time to find myself as well. Now, I'm not going to say this will happen to you, but he recently told me that he wanted to work on things again. You can read my other posts and see how dire my situation looked, so you know that things can turn around. Just give her the time she needs. I pushed my husband at first and it made things worse. Take the time to find yourself again. It will help you pass the time and help your wife see that you're able to enjoy yourself without her company and show that you're not too needy or dependent on her for your happiness. I wish you the best.


Thanks for the response. things are so different now and i'm only a week in. things are strange and I hope to do some soul searching as well... right now work has me really busy. I'll read your posts soon. thanks for reading mine.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

It just sounds like you bored her out of any interest in you. You are nearly pure Beta Male. You need to add some Alpha Male excitment and flair.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

*Avoiding the marital friendzone....*

If you can only read one book about this stuff read "Mating in captivity". That comment about dying for her - is part of a pattern of being too nice, and emotionally crowding her. 

I know this sucks but I really believe that the things that have kept it hot for us are:
- We have both stayed fit for ourselves and each other - this is a sign of commitment to passion that really means something
- I make an effort to keep it fun and light most of the time. She is happy to be around me as I radiate an upbeat vibe. I don't avoid serious stuff but don't dwell on it. 
- She knows she is my highest priority but I don't crowd her. I never try and pull her off a call with friends - never pressure her to come home soon when she is out or working late - really and truly never. In fact I stay a half ratchet further away from her then she wants so she gets to come to me - call it a light chase. She knows I love her and am committed - but that is way different then crowding someone. I say I love you just a bit less then she does. Stuff like that matters. I think she considers me a little bit of a challenge but NOT a flirt and NOT a cheat. High trust factor - low emotional claustrophobia factor.
- I make sure to playfully overpower her physically on a regular basis. I never hurt her - and am not jerky about it. Think lion cubs when they wrestle - except I always win.
- When we argue she usually wins. If she is biitchy about something I inflict serious emotional pain before it resolves. Who cares if you say your sorry even when you weren't really wrong. Make it painful enough and wife is not going to be nasty to you very often. My primary pain infliction is simply the absence of the really fun/helpful guy she is used to. He gets replaced by quiet / unhelpful guy.
- I made sure to learn just how aggressive/dominant she wanted me to be "in bed" and I am that way because it is what works best for HER - also fun for me . This last matters a lot in the friendzone avoidance scheme.
- I am NOT conflict avoidant with her. But I don't yell and scream and / or threaten when we have conflict. I have worked hard to learn how to ask a very tough question in a sharp tone of voice and then let her answer hang and hang and hang. Very uncomfortable to be on the receiving end of this. I only do it when provoked. 





Nice Guys Finish Last said:


> Thanks Dreaded Soulja, cpt confused, dumped, noideato, I really appreciate the support. I'm really cannot believe what has happened to me, all of us. Its really sudden. A real life changer, a real game changer. Life as you know it is so different.
> 
> I have been an independent person before her and I know I can be now because I have to be. the thing is, I chose to need her, but i guess she didn't choose me. its a hard pill to swallow, and its going down sideways.
> 
> ...


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

Nice Guys Finish Last said:


> I'm now sitting here in a half empty house. It's an odd feeling, it's like a bad dream that I can't wake up from. It's really happening. My love has walked out on me. I've been on an emotional roller coaster since late Oct.
> Thats when she told me that she was thinking of divorce and that she'd be leaving in January.
> 
> I love my wife, I'm a good guy, I won't even consider cheating, I'm not abusive verbally or mentally. I don't play games, we always are able to work out our problems and don't go to bed mad.


This is the "nice guy" scenario, all too common I'm afraid.



> I am still stunned about what has happened. She says we don't connect emotionally, don't communicate. She says she needs time to figure herself out. She seems to be a totally different person that I've never known. I'm very confused.


Sexual attraction and emotional connection are intertwined. A woman will not connect emotionally to a man she is not attracted to, and especially who does not make her feel sexually attractive herself. 



> Someone at lunch had commented that one cannot honestly truly be happy in a relationship unless they are happy with themselves.
> 
> She said that our whole relationship has been a lie. So basically i've been living in a dream for the last 5 years, 2 of which we are married. we even got remarried recently and have been trying to have children.


When a woman "checks out" like this, which is just saying the emotional connection is broken, it is startling how cold and changed the woman can become, even a woman that a man has known and been together with for years. 



> We are both busy people, but even though i'm a dense dumb guy, i still live and learn and make adjustments, thats just life. She's been busy all year, and when she finally got unbusy I've realized that we've changed roles. I'm now the one wanting to spend time and just be together.
> 
> Earlier in our relationship, she said that I wasn't giving her what she needed, (quality time, physical touch) I'd just play games, watch tv, study for work etc. so she put up a wall, a wall that would she would just continue building to tell herself that she doesn't need what she wants. The wall has gotten so tall that she isn't able to see over it or move it. She's like a totally different person. We're on opposite sides of the lets stay married spectrum. (she stopped going to marriage counseling after two sessions, but says she'll continue again later after being moved)
> I got the I love you but I'm not in love with you bit there.


Again this is the lack of sexual attraction has killed the emotional connection. 



> It's like some sort of identity crisis she's going through and the only way she can figure it out is to move out. I volunteered to give her space etc....to no avail. She says she needs to do this. There is nothing I can do. I've started to see a counselor myself in the meantime.


This is often contested on this site, but my opinion is unchanged, the "giving space" is merely the woman letting the man down easy over time, rather than crushing him all at once.

And if there is another affair man in the picture, this is double bad news. 

Often the last chance a man has to show his woman he is man enough to stand up for the relationship and for her, is to see this request for "space" for what it is, a test of his love for her.



> We just went through the most akward holidays ever. At least the families were being nice.
> 
> I really want things to work out, but at the same time I think its messed up that we both have to move and I have to wait for her to make up her mind as to if she wants to stay married or not.


Do not fall into this trap. A woman "needing space" because she is "confused" is doing just one thing, wanting to see her man stand up for her. Even I feel like a broken record to have to keep beating this drum, but it is important. 



> I mean who wants to start over again? i dont. (with dating, relationship building etc.)


You will be starting over, the dating, relationship building, everything. This has already been decided by your woman.

Your decision will be, will you start over with your wife, or find some other woman in the future.

Your woman is already moving to happiness for herself.

The sooner you resolve to not be reactive, but instead proactive to this truth, the sooner the ball is in your court to resolve the relationship trouble and move toward happiness for yourself.



> I'm so confused, I'm dying on the inside, I don't know what to say, and I know the only thing left to do is wait. (time will tell and time will heal i guess) I really do love her and this is killing me.


Time is not on your side. If you "wait" to see what happens, I will tell you right now what you will end up seeing, and it will be not make you happy.



> She's calling it a trial separation, so i guess thats positive. but i dont want to be strung along. I dont deserve that.


The action you need to be doing is just the thing as mentioned above, to have the resolve to build the relationship.

This is just what it sounds like, do not grovel, beg, cry, or bring up your past history together to try to guilt your woman. This is going to do only one thing, repulse her from you.

Instead, as if you were to date her for the very first time, focus instead on pulling yourself together, improving your appearance and confidence, and show the resolve to become this thing, a man in control of himself and his environment, the dominant man.



> gonna go to work and try to forget about it. its so hard to stay positive.
> 
> thx for reading the rant, had to get it off my chest.


I wish you well.


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## Nice Guys Finish Last (Jan 4, 2010)

thank you wolf, 
I appreciate the insight. I know what you speak of is what must be done and I do want to start doing these things.

My head is still spinning and I still dont know what to do. It's been a week now and we haven't talked. I don't know if thats good or bad, but I'm putting it on her to make first contact.

I will not grovel, beg or cry. These are things I've told myself I will not do. 

I know she is physically sexually attracted to me, but i think you hit the nail on the head with 'Sexual attraction and emotional connection are intertwined. A woman will not connect emotionally to a man she is not attracted to, and especially who does not make her feel sexually attractive herself. '

I will focus on pulling myself together now as if i were to date her for the first time, and for myself.


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## Nice Guys Finish Last (Jan 4, 2010)

*Re: Avoiding the marital friendzone....*



MEM11363 said:


> If you can only read one book about this stuff read "Mating in captivity". That comment about dying for her - is part of a pattern of being too nice, and emotionally crowding her.
> 
> I know this sucks but I really believe that the things that have kept it hot for us are:
> - We have both stayed fit for ourselves and each other - this is a sign of commitment to passion that really means something
> ...


thanks for sharing what works for you....i will try some of these things if ever given the chance.


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## Nice Guys Finish Last (Jan 4, 2010)

Atholk said:


> It just sounds like you bored her out of any interest in you. You are nearly pure Beta Male. You need to add some Alpha Male excitment and flair.


I am afraid that i may have. I also fear she gave up years ago 
i do have some of that 'flair' but it doesnt help when she's totally not into anything sexual. she didn't even try the last year, that didn't help me either.


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## Nice Guys Finish Last (Jan 4, 2010)

*Re: Avoiding the marital friendzone....*



MEM11363 said:


> If you can only read one book about this stuff read "Mating in captivity". That comment about dying for her - is part of a pattern of being too nice, and emotionally crowding her.
> 
> I know this sucks but I really believe that the things that have kept it hot for us are:
> - We have both stayed fit for ourselves and each other - this is a sign of commitment to passion that really means something
> ...


i really didn't crowd her at all, i was actually happy that she would go out with friends.....she doesn't have many. as for the 'die for you' comment, she said that i should live for myself, dont ever say that.....and I had no objective when i said that. I just said what i feel. I wasn't angling to make her feel one way or the other.....maybe it did crowd her and i didnt even know it. thanks for reading and the insight.


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## Nice Guys Finish Last (Jan 4, 2010)

wow, BigBadWolf really had some tough pills to swallow, but I think most of it rings true. 

Although I'm still very confused about things, i think i see a glimmer of light through the fog. 

I am confused by this one topic - Is her leaving me really a test of love? "Often the last chance a man has to show his woman he is man enough to stand up for the relationship and for her, is to see this request for "space" for what it is, a test of his love for her."

i'm a little confused by this because she knows damn well i love her. change isn't enough for her. she mentioned whatever i do will never be good enough for her during a marriage counseling session.

is it her messed up thinking and doing a test? 


things are getting harder each day.....its only been a week on my own in my new apt. its so strange to me still. and stranger is that we arent even talking.....(normal i guess) just sent a few administrative emails back and forth about money and the last place we lived. nothing else, no phone calls....(i guess its still early?) we did agree to see eachother at least once a week....it hasn't happened the first week.

i guess i'm just overanalyzing things since i have more alone time myself.

i guess i'll give it another week........but my friends all say put it on her to make contact since she instigated this whole thing...

thanks for reading...


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

Nice Guys Finish Last said:


> wow, BigBadWolf really had some tough pills to swallow, but I think most of it rings true.
> 
> Although I'm still very confused about things, i think i see a glimmer of light through the fog.
> 
> ...



It is easy to overanalyze, but I will say this, based on this post.

Do NOT assume in any way, shape, or form that your woman knows any more than you do about this situation.

Read that sentence again many times if necessary.

It is too easy for a man to think that his woman knows the solution to the relationship trouble, and is merely withholding it from him deliberately, and for him to resent her for this.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

At best, your woman will communicate truthfully how you are making her feel, and during these times even that is over and above what to expect. Do not expect or rely on any more information than this, especially do not put stock into words, instead look for the actions and behavior. There is where the truth resides.

For a woman to say "it will never work" or any such thing, do not take that as anything other than this:

You are making her FEEL right now that it will never work.

If you are to save this marriage, you must change how you make her feel.

And again on the "space" issue. 

To take this time to become the man in control of himself, and his environment, and in this case to begin "dating" your wife again, is the only beneficial thing you can do to win your woman back.

If instead, you choose to "wait and see" what your woman "decides" after she is no longer "confused", then you are merely communicating to her, again in your actions not words, that she is not important enough for you to fight for.

And regarding advice from your friends, remember to pursue the action that will lead you to happiness, no one else can decide that for you with certainty.

And if that is that you want to fight for your marriage, then fight hard with everything you have.


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## Nice Guys Finish Last (Jan 4, 2010)

today was the first day of contact....yeah it was me i broke.
i was holding out.....but it was exercise night (we take a class, i dont want to specify to be too obvious if someone is lurking) and i needed to give her stuff back and get keys for the house to return to the landlord.......

i talked to her over the computer...IM....just being nice, asking how she's been etc....not a whole lot, but its been 15 days of silence.

i see her at class and she leaves, she isn't feeling well. i walk her out to the parking lot and feel awkward, i dont even know if i should hug her.....i just pat her arm and say bye.....

wtf is wrong with me.


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## Nice Guys Finish Last (Jan 4, 2010)

ok mentally i'm in a strange place....still in shock, angry, and bursting out sadness....tears out of nowhere.


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## Nice Guys Finish Last (Jan 4, 2010)

so yesterday was our first weekly 'date' just dinner after an exercise class. I tried to keep the mood light and pretend that I'm doing ok and everything is going ok. we go to a favorite place that we used to frequent...i pay (the usual) and we sit and chat a bit....we ask how eachother is doing and such.....my goal is to give her a marriage counselor's number that she can call and schedule a few appts by herself before we do it jointly. to my suprise she asks before i get to it. I give her the number. she says March is when we should begin jointly again. 
she does mention how she loves living by herself now (she's never lived by herself before) and how she hasnt bothered to unpack fully or anything....that doesnt surprise me much. anyhow, i went into it positive, and got her to agree to counseling, but i feel like its over for good as each day passes.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

I think this forum is going to attract "nice guys" because only a nice guy would visit this forum because their marriage is/was important to them, right?

As usual, I find BigBadWolf's advice dead on and agree with it.

If this is any help at all, if you are a visual/imagery type of guy, I "mentally" took the "Nice Guy" in me out behind the shed and shot him. It was time to end that person. I am much happier as a result.

Or if you need another form of imagery. . .Good Kirk/Bad Kirk. Good Kirk in that old Star Trek episode realized he needed the Bad Kirk to pilot the Enterprise, that that was where his command abilities lay. So in the end, the crew decides to "morph" them back together so he is fully functional

You are going to need the Bad Nice Guys Finish Last person to pilot you through this now whether it's divorce or reconciliation.

Also, if I can add a piece of advice, if this proceeds to divorce (and I sincerly hope it does not), remember this - 

Divorce (and marriage) is nothing more than a business transaction. It's kind of cynical and cold. . .but the mantra helped me really get a decent settlement in divorce. . .I negotiated my terms, held firm on some, surrendered a few others. . .knew when to fold (custody is a losing battle) on others.

Try to drive her into mediation and work towards settlement as the goal.

Also, I use to my advantage that she was itching to move on and I was in no hurry. . .had all the time in the world. This will drive a settlement more to your favor.

Good luck either way. Despite my "coaching", I hope she has a change of heart.

Love,

Bad Scannerguard 

PS: For the forum who are not Nice Guy Star Trek nerds. . .this was an old but memorable story. The transporter goes awry and splits Captain Kirk into two people - the "Bad" Kirk and the Good Kirk, identical twins. The crew is puzzled by the apparent change in behavior. . .Kirk was just not himself doing bad things but then Good Kirk would walk in and it seemed like the normal Kirk.

Spock finds out about it and connects with Good Kirk but when Good Kirk sits in the captains chair, he finds he's indecisive. He just can't make command decisions.

Of course, they both reason (Spock and Good Kirk) they need the Bad Kirk back for him to be fully functional again so they trick him back into the transporter and morph the two together, making him whole again.

Far-fetched science ficition but a memorable episode becuase it spoke to the reality of human nature and the God and Devil in all of us. I have come to embrace "Bad Scannerguard" over the last 6 months. . .just have to ride that fine balance and not let him rule me.

Anyway, since the theme is "nice guys" in this thread, I thought I'd explain it out some more, probably boring the females


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

Scannerguard said:


> Far-fetched science ficition but a memorable episode becuase it spoke to the reality of human nature and the God and Devil in all of us. I have come to embrace "Bad Scannerguard" over the last 6 months. . .just have to ride that fine balance and not let him rule me.
> 
> Anyway, since the theme is "nice guys" in this thread, I thought I'd explain it out some more, probably boring the females



This "Bad Scannerguard" and "Bad Kirk" concepts are most intriguing to me. Thank you for sharing these.

It has not escaped me, during these last few months on this Talk About Marriage forum, to think very similar ideas, but not of "Star Trek" but instead of the movie "Fight Club", that many men on this forum would benefit to meet "Tyler Durden" each for himself.

Very similar concept, I believe.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

*The power of love ---- in full retreat*

To have a strange shot at reversal you can always try the romantic "unsell" which goes like this.

I reluctantly agree that the best thing to do is part. I don't think I will meet any else quite like you and that makes me sad. I do however take with me the many happy memories we shared and the genuine desire that you find what you wish in life. 

I do think a period of LC would be good - say 6 months - just communicate if needed to return each others physical belongings. After that lets play it by ear 













BigBadWolf said:


> This "Bad Scannerguard" and "Bad Kirk" concepts are most intriguing to me. Thank you for sharing these.
> 
> It has not escaped me, during these last few months on this Talk About Marriage forum, to think very similar ideas, but not of "Star Trek" but instead of the movie "Fight Club", that many men on this forum would benefit to meet "Tyler Durden" each for himself.
> 
> Very similar concept, I believe.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

BigBadWolf:

Yeah, Fight Club is another good "guy flick."

The theme in literature is repeated over and over. . .Dr Jeckyll/Mr. Hyde. 

The Incredible Hulk. . .the monster that lies dormant in every male - probably the "superhero" I could most identify with.

(My stb-x has learned the David Banner lesson - "Don't make me angry. . .you wouldn't like me when I am angry."

All stories retold with the same theme/moral. There is a dark/necessary side to every human male.

I think "Nice Guys" (this probably deserves a separate thread) sort of are taught if you hold down a job, be a good father, be nice to your wife, be forgiving, that your wife will "reward you" with love/sex/understanding/etc.

It just doesn't work that way unfortunately. 

Just like "Good Kirk" who couldn't command the Enterprise. . .I have come to realize that Good Scannerguard was not piloting the relationship well and "the inmate" (my stb-x) was running the assylum. . .thus, I *need* Bad Scannerguard.

In the end though, Good must subjugate (sp?) the Bad. . .always leaving him just beneath the surface, just slightly tamed, ready to be released. The Good Scannerguard will emerge again.

Well, enough of the philosophical babble. . .back to work, lol. Interesting group of "nice guys" here going through divorce.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

LOL. . .if you want to see some melodramatic acting:

YouTube - captain kirk goes crazy!! best of william shatner

Hey, try to keep a sense of humor through all of this.

I think the unemotional Spock is actually teasing the Yoeman for sleeping with Bad Kirk, LOL.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

If the average nice guy simply learned to do a small number of things differently - so many marriages would be happy/would not end in divorce:
- Use of a tone of voice with a sharp edge - this is way way better then being loud - the tone is very scary when done right
- Use of simple questions that when answered in a bs way by the female - the man just stares and says NOTHING no matter how long the silence lasts - if she doesn't retract amend eventually he walks away from the conversation 
- Use of the question "would you really be ok if I did that to you?"
- Use of limited communication. In an argument where you deadlock, half the time you should holdout until she comes to you and half the time you should initiate the olive branch. It doesn't matter as much who apologizes as long as the conversation is rational and it is clear that she is trying to be fair to you and see your point of view as well. 




Scannerguard said:


> BigBadWolf:
> 
> Yeah, Fight Club is another good "guy flick."
> 
> ...


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## Nice Guys Finish Last (Jan 4, 2010)

valentines day is approaching, and I don't know what to do. dinner?

talk and leave.....its so weird to me right now. I continue to adjust to life by myself. Her saying that she's so damn happy by herself kind of bothers me. I think i need to mentally shoot the nice guy in me.


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## Notaclue (Jan 1, 2010)

When you figure it out NGFL let me know also. I am clueless at this point.


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## Nice Guys Finish Last (Jan 4, 2010)

Notaclue said:


> When you figure it out NGFL let me know also. I am clueless at this point.


 i sure will...i have no idea. its such a strange time in our lives.


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## Notaclue (Jan 1, 2010)

Well since my wife is leaving me tomorrow, I won't need to worry about valentines day as I won't know where she is or where to send a card..... she has an apt somewhere in town. Not sure I even care to know at this point.


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## Nice Guys Finish Last (Jan 4, 2010)

Notaclue said:


> Well since my wife is leaving me tomorrow, I won't need to worry about valentines day as I won't know where she is or where to send a card..... she has an apt somewhere in town. Not sure I even care to know at this point.


i'm sorry man, that is a toughy. i wish you the best brother.


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## harley2003 (Feb 8, 2010)

I know exactly where my W will be on V day. She will be with her new boyfriend. She has already made that clear. Would anything but a nice guy accept that?


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## Nice Guys Finish Last (Jan 4, 2010)

harley2003 said:


> I know exactly where my W will be on V day. She will be with her new boyfriend. She has already made that clear. Would anything but a nice guy accept that?


 it takes a nicer guy than I,


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## Notaclue (Jan 1, 2010)

WOW I don't know what to say guys , but I'm going to forget that Valentines day exists for now. Besides , my W is not around any more so I don't have anyone to give a card and flowers to anyway.


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## Nice Guys Finish Last (Jan 4, 2010)

well i may be a fool and i hope that im not pushing her away, but i ordered a flower delivery for her this friday before valentines, with a message that says "wishing you the love and happiness that you deserve, love xxx" i will not ask for a date.....i did ask her out to lunch yesterday before the storm, but i didnt even get a response via phone, email or text.

i wonder if i'm being suffocating?


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## harley2003 (Feb 8, 2010)

I am trying to distance myself from mine which is hard since she is still in the house. I went out with friends last night and will again tonight. I did buy her a card and a token gift. Nothing like I would have bought her before. 

Women do love flowers and I certainly hope for your sake that you are not pushing her away. Most folks tend to agree that when women get in this mood, that no contact is better. But I am finding that no one answer is the right one. 

Good luck to you. I truly hope it works out for you.


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## hyndsight1 (Jan 28, 2010)

Its my 15th anniversary....she gets what she asked for...


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## Nice Guys Finish Last (Jan 4, 2010)

wow, just had dinner with her for our weekly meet up. I fear she is really far gone now. She isnt cheating on me, but she's too happy being by herself its scary. i think for the first time that she's really gone and my attempts at trying to make this work for reconciliation are futile. I really am still shocked about everything, how night and day it is. happily married, then separated? wtf. so confused still

no mention of valentines day at this meeting. I ordered flowers that are supposed to arrive tomorrow. we'll see how that goes.


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## Notaclue (Jan 1, 2010)

Hate to say it NGFL, but I don't think it will matter much. I got my W roses and a card back in January for her birthday, she didn't even read the card. It's like I don't exist. They are simply so wrapped up in themselves they don't even see that we exist. I'm doing nothing for Valentines day because it won't make any difference in my case. I'll get something for my daughter but not my W. I'm persona non grata to her.


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## harley2003 (Feb 8, 2010)

Guys,

I am so sorry that you have found yourself here. Just like me, you were shocked to see it ending so fast. 

The one thing I can say is that at least your W's have moved out. Mine hasn't yet so I am constantly having the OM thrown in my face. I guess it is a double edged sword. I do get to talk with my W and try and get some understanding but it comes with a price.

Hopefully we will all find ourselves in a better place soon.

Hang in there.


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## Nice Guys Finish Last (Jan 4, 2010)

man its been about 2 months, and i still dont know how to feel. I'm still hovering between shock and sadness. we only talk once a week or so if that, and it is ALWAYS me that initiates contact. ( with the exception of her Instant messaging me for administrative functions) I guess giving her space is what i need to do now, but at the same time, I feel that I'm not doing enough and i'm loosing her more and more each day. Im sure she checked out of our marriage months before. 
i dunno, maybe she'll initiate contact one day....so far its been once a week (if that) meetings to just eat dinner and then leave....thats our agreed weekly contact.
i dunno this is still strange..... still cant believe this is happening to me (and to so many people at the same time too)


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## Carefulthoughts (Jan 21, 2010)

NGFL I am feeling the same things but it has also made me aware that my stbx wife is a stranger to me. The things she has done are nothing the woman I fell in love with would do. But I have this woman who I don't know and I know will lie (lied to me and confessed accidentally all in the same conversation). But I know I have to protect myself. She was the one who left and I was the one who filed. Life isn't over after divorce, she still has the opportunity to try to make things right during the process and after. But I am on this roller coaster with you and I am looking around making sure I don't get hit in the head while we go.


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## Nice Guys Finish Last (Jan 4, 2010)

yep, she is sure a stranger right now, its so strange. we've been having weekly 'dates' which is basically just eating dinner for an hour and leaving each other for a week. its so weird. i still cannot believe what is going on. she mentioned she'd contact my therapist (marriage counseling) soon. I didn't prod her or talk about relationship issues at our last dinner. I really don't even know why she's willing to go and do counseling. I hope its not just to go thru the motions and let me down like she's trying. i fear the worst.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Have you tried changing anything up?

Blow off a few dates? Just tell her you have plans - dismissively.

As effed up as all of this is at face value, what makes it crazier is that the more you _don't_ act like the guy she is married to, the more intriguing you become.

Fearful is simply not a good place to be. They can smell it on you, and it's a repellent. 

The less you need her, the more you open up the potential of her wanting you. And even if she doesn't, you are still way better off by reducing your dependence and detaching, whether you reconcile or not.


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## Mrcatch22 (Feb 9, 2010)

NGFL,

I know your having a hard time but it does get easier. I am going through the very same thing you are 2 years ago around the same time my W and I seperated we were apart for 6 weeks. for 5 of them weeks i was calling her and righting her letter and trying to live in the past and try to make her feel guilty. In one week i changed myself totally I went out and bought some new clothes finally looked back and asked myself when was i the happiest in my life. it was just before my W and I met. I had high self esteem i thad this ****y confidence about myself that i could do anything i wanted and i could have any girl i wanted. I started to get that back and i met a girl that i had no intentions of doing anything with but we would just talk and text back and forth all day long. that week i never spoke to my W i had a smile on my face and i wasn't hurting. at the end of the week it was after valentines day and she sent me a message and asked me if i missed her and if i stil loved her. Told her not a day went by that i didn't think about her and that i would always lover her. We got back together and decided to make a change in our lives. her father lived in texas and we moved down to texas from indiana. I left everything i knew for her. about a week ago she gave me the i love you but not in love with you line again. I have yet to cry i started try and get her to change her mind but i looked back on the last time and just made up my mind that i'm not going to be that weak guy. we are still living together until i get an apartment in about a month. she is finally opening up to me more and more everyday. but there isn't a day that goes by she doesn't mention when i get my apartment. These are hurtfull jabs but you have to take them. The one thing that i live is we are actually laughing and talking again something we have lost in our lives. I keep joking with her about how we said that if we ever split up we would be friends with benefits so i keep reminding her about that. I'm trying to just sit back and deal with the roller coaster feelsing. I hurt inside but i don't show her. She told me last night she is suprised that i'm taking this so well and that it makes it easier for her to come home and hang out instead of avoiding me. I'm flying home for a few days in a couple weeks so it gives us a few days away from seeing each other. i try not to push her and kinda take what she gives me and then try to get just a little bit more the next time. Laughing and joking can really be a heck of an ice breaker gets you thinking how you use to do that and how you enjoyed your life then. Over time your life just gets boring with the everyday routine and it's easy to feel smothered or suffocation when things start changing in that routine.I'm with you brother all we can do is take it day by day and make yourself a better person for YOU....not HER. nothing harder in the world then imagining you will never get another chance to be with the one person you love more than anything in the world. Thats the only hard part for me is thinking is it really over this time


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## Nice Guys Finish Last (Jan 4, 2010)

thanks for the support here....... i am continuing in another thread...lots of updates.


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## kenmoore14217 (Apr 8, 2010)

and where would that thread be buddy?


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