# Help..wife feels sex isn't important



## LonelyHusband (Sep 2, 2011)

My wife and I have been married for 14 years and have a great family...we've had our ups and downs but our sex life is pretty much non-existant. I have a very high sex drive, I would love to have sex every day, multiple times...I have never cheated on her and nor has she cheated on me. Now she says she is no longer attracted to me...and it hurts...I feel like we will never have sex again. I've told her it's important to me and that I can't be in a marriage were there was no sex. I don't want to consider divorce because it would destroy our children. I just don't know what to do....


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

LonelyHusband said:


> My wife and I have been married for 14 years and have a great family...we've had our ups and downs but our sex life is pretty much non-existant. I have a very high sex drive, I would love to have sex every day, multiple times...I have never cheated on her and nor has she cheated on me. Now she says she is no longer attracted to me...and it hurts...I feel like we will never have sex again. I've told her it's important to me and that I can't be in a marriage were there was no sex. I don't want to consider divorce because it would destroy our children. I just don't know what to do....


Are you sure your wife is not going outside the marriage? How do you know for sure? How old are your children?


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## LonelyHusband (Sep 2, 2011)

I guess I'm not sure...a few years ago I saw some suggestive text messages on her phone, but she swore she wasn't having an affair for the sake of the children, who range in age from 7 to 15....


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Does your wife give any reason(s) for why she is no longer attracted to you?

Have you maintained your weight, appearance, job, friends? Do you pull your weight around the house without being asked or told to?

Have you continued to pursue her throughout your marriage? Do you flirt with her, make her feel special and attractive?

Was your wife ever sexual with you at one point? When did it start to decline? What happened at that point?

Do you know what your wife wants/needs out of your marriage?


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## LonelyHusband (Sep 2, 2011)

Not really, we had our ups and downs, she has overcome addiction (prescription pills), we fight like normal couples, she has been diagnosed as BPD...I have had my issues as well, I am a bit over-organized and like things done a certain way, which annoys her....

Yes, I'm a few pounds heavier than when I was in college, I still play sports, I have friends and am well liked by everyone, I do all the cooking, I do cleaning and I do laundry to help her out...I pay all the bills and have a good job.

I have pursued her, I give her hugs and tell her I love her, I initiate sex, but she turns me down almost all of the time, I get frustrated, which she then turns around and says I'm mad all the time...we never really had a good sex life, we didn't even have sex on our wedding night. Good for us was about once a month, but then that started being every other month, and now it's been 6 months...I can't stand it, I need sex every day....

I've tried talking to her about what she needs, but get the "I don't know" answer....


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## LonelyHusband (Sep 2, 2011)

I started thinking our sex life was normal, but then I read all the posts from other wives that talk about their high sex drives and I feel like I've been cheated...


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## GCnoel (Sep 2, 2011)

Check out Married Man Sex Life - read the blog and strongly consider buying the book. Many of the author's ideas are sound (you may not agree with some, but that's okay). It's a different approach to healing your marriage and getting your wife to be interested in sex. It may very well help, and it can't hurt.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

LonelyHusband said:


> I started thinking our sex life was normal, but then I read all the posts from other wives that talk about their high sex drives and I feel like I've been cheated...


Don't get too caught up in what you read on a forum - it doesn't necesarrily represent the norm. 

I don't think that I have a very high drive, but my husband certainly makes it worth my time by giving me the things I need inside and outside the bedroom, and it is surely easy to reciprocate in that case.

Do you think that your wife respects you?

Is she on any kind of treatment for her BPD? Any kind of medication? Certain kinds of anti-depressants, for instance, can negatively impact a person's libido and ability to orgasm.

Is she on any other medication, e.g, hormonal birth control? Those can also be libido killers.

When you do have sex, is she satisfied? Does she orgasm?

It's concerning that you haven't had a good sex life from the beginning. Have you explored what may be going on with her - does she have body issues, guilt issues, hang-ups (religious or otherwise)?

By going along with the flow, so to speak, from the beginning, she now likely has the impression that everything has really been fine with you and that appears to be fine with her. How willing are you to shake things up? Because they may need to be shaken up in order for her to wake up.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

LonelyHusband said:


> .a few years ago I saw some suggestive text messages on her phone, but she swore she wasn't having an affair for the sake of the children



whoa whoa whoa.....hold the phone here


please go into further detail here, have you ever verified that it's stopped, know who the OM was, etc?


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## kelevra (May 19, 2011)

You might as well prepare for the worst, something is not right. Divorce is worse when the kids are in the teens and your not getting any younger. Don't waste your life , you sound like a good catch. There are millions of women out there. The theory that there is one special one is total bull#$%@. In six weeks there will be someone new that is special or at least special til morning ha ha ! Get prepared then confront if no change move on.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

LonelyHusband said:


> I guess I'm not sure...a few years ago I saw some suggestive text messages on her phone, but she swore she wasn't having an affair for the sake of the children, who range in age from 7 to 15....


This may be something that you should look in to. What happened after this?


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## LonelyHusband (Sep 2, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> whoa whoa whoa.....hold the phone here
> 
> 
> please go into further detail here, have you ever verified that it's stopped, know who the OM was, etc?


It has stopped and I know who the OM was, I know she is no longer texting him. But I'm afraid their might be others, I saw an email she sent to a counseler she is seeing occasionally...and she wrote about how much she likes to give bjs, but she has only given me 1 in 14 years of marriage....is that normal to tell your counseler that?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Tell her that if sex isn't important to her, that you're sure that she won't mind if you find it outside your marriage then. Tell her that you vowed to monogamy, not celibacy.

The question about medications is an important one. From what I've read here, they can have a significant impact on libido. So it might be worth trying to work with her doctor to try to adjust things. Of course, the fun is that for someone with no libido, ther isn't a problem in the marriage. For me, one of the key reasons I left my marriage was because while my wife recognized that there were significant issues in our marriage (including intimacy), she wasn't willing to work on addressing things. If she wasn't willing to work on those issues, there was no way the situation was going to change. And I wasn't willing to continue living like that.

As Enchantment says, you may have to shake things up to get change to happen. Start with the Married Mans Sex Life, and "manning up", as mentioned earlier. But you're going to have a long fight ahead of you, I'd guess, since it seems your entire marriage has been pretty low intimacy. Good luck!

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Oh, and are you two in marriage counseling? Or is she just in individual counseling?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyHusband (Sep 2, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> Don't get too caught up in what you read on a forum - it doesn't necesarrily represent the norm.
> 
> I don't think that I have a very high drive, but my husband certainly makes it worth my time by giving me the things I need inside and outside the bedroom, and it is surely easy to reciprocate in that case.
> 
> ...


I don't think she respects me, she's not on any medication for BPD, she has said she doesn't like the way it makes her feel...she's not on any birth control.

The last few times we had sex, we usually bring a vibrator, she hasn't orgasmed with just me, even though I love to perform oral sex, but she has orgasmed with the vibrator several times.

I feel like I have wasted 14 years of going with the flow, I'm a handsome guy with a lot to offer, I love my kids and divorce just makes me sick to my stomach...


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## kelevra (May 19, 2011)

LonelyHusband said:


> It has stopped and I know who the OM was, I know she is no longer texting him. But I'm afraid their might be others, I saw an email she sent to a counseler she is seeing occasionally...and she wrote about how much she likes to give bjs, but she has only given me 1 in 14 years of marriage....is that normal to tell your counseler that?


LOVES to give BJ's and you've gotten 1 in 14 yrs .... who do you think she loves giving them too ? !! Normal , you need to wake up. Is there anything you talk about loving to do and only do it once every fourteen yrs. Get Lawyered up dude !


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## LonelyHusband (Sep 2, 2011)

PBear said:


> Oh, and are you two in marriage counseling? Or is she just in individual counseling?
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We used to be, but she hated the counseler when the counseler started showing that our issues were a lot related to her..she does that with all her counselers..once they start pointing to her real issues, she no longer finds them necessary.


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## ManDup (Apr 22, 2011)

Let's jump ahead to page 9 where you find the smoking gun. I strongly suggest a keylogger to figure out her other e-mail accounts. The bj thing just doesn't pass the smell test.


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

ManDup said:


> Let's jump ahead to page 9 where you find the smoking gun. I strongly suggest a keylogger to figure out her other e-mail accounts. The bj thing just doesn't pass the smell test.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## LonelyHusband (Sep 2, 2011)

ManDup said:


> Let's jump ahead to page 9 where you find the smoking gun. I strongly suggest a keylogger to figure out her other e-mail accounts. The bj thing just doesn't pass the smell test.


She has her own laptop, that's where I saw the email to her counselor...when I confronted her about it, we got into a huge fight. I know if I saw her text messages, I would probably blow a fuse...but I guess I just don't have the interest in finding out what my heart already knows...


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

LonelyHusband said:


> It has stopped and I know who the OM was, I know she is no longer texting him. But I'm afraid their might be others, I saw an email she sent to a counseler she is seeing occasionally...and she wrote about how much she likes to give bjs, but she has only given me 1 in 14 years of marriage....is that normal to tell your counseler that?


La - No, that is not normal to say that to a counselor. How did the counselor respond to that? If it was anything inappropriate, then the counselor should be held accountable for that. More importantly, how have YOU been responding to these inappropriate incidents?

Lonely ... you have a lot of red flags here. I think you may have to do some digging and searching in to some potentially painful areas to get to the bottom of this. I'll let some of the others guide you there...many have had a similar experience they went through and have more wisdom than I.

Best of luck. God Bless.


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## LonelyHusband (Sep 2, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> La - No, that is not normal to say that to a counselor. How did the counselor respond to that? If it was anything inappropriate, then the counselor should be held accountable for that. More importantly, how have YOU been responding to these inappropriate incidents?
> 
> Lonely ... you have a lot of red flags here. I think you may have to do some digging and searching in to some potentially painful areas to get to the bottom of this. I'll let some of the others guide you there...many have had a similar experience they went through and have more wisdom than I.
> 
> Best of luck. God Bless.


He said the "guy" in him smiles every time he reads that....everytime I bring this up we get into a fight. I guess I know we're not headed in the direction of keeping the marriage together....I just feel so sick for our kids...


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## southernmagnolia (Apr 12, 2011)

LonelyHusband said:


> My wife and I have been married for 14 years and have a great family...we've had our ups and downs but our sex life is pretty much non-existant. I have a very high sex drive, I would love to have sex every day, multiple times...I have never cheated on her and nor has she cheated on me. Now she says she is no longer attracted to me...and it hurts...I feel like we will never have sex again. I've told her it's important to me and that I can't be in a marriage were there was no sex. I don't want to consider divorce because it would destroy our children. I just don't know what to do....


Divorce won't destroy your children, it will hurt them and it will be difficult but depending on how you handle it the damage can be minimal.


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## southernmagnolia (Apr 12, 2011)

From reading your posts it sounds like your wife has some mental health issues that she refuses to address and a general unhappiness with herself and maybe there is an affair going on, maybe. 

I hope you realize that you only have control over you and how your respond to her and your unhappiness. I think you can handle it one of two ways, get to the bottom of things to find out if there an affair and confront her with that and tell her if she doesn't seek help with her bpd that you will leave or you can tell her that it's over and start divorce proceedings. You do have a choice and again divorce will not ruin your kids and you both can minimize the damage if you go that route.


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## ThirdTimeACharm (Sep 1, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> La - No, that is not normal to say that to a counselor. How did the counselor respond to that? If it was anything inappropriate, then the counselor should be held accountable for that. More importantly, how have YOU been responding to these inappropriate incidents?
> 
> Lonely ... you have a lot of red flags here. I think you may have to do some digging and searching in to some potentially painful areas to get to the bottom of this. I'll let some of the others guide you there...many have had a similar experience they went through and have more wisdom than I.
> 
> Best of luck. God Bless.


There is nothing abnormal about her telling the counselor that she loves to give bl-w jobs....you are supposed to be open and truthful in counseling!


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## ThirdTimeACharm (Sep 1, 2011)

To the husband in question....with a wife that is BPD, it is not a matter of IF, but a matter of WHEN divorce will happen...you cannot reason with these people and they may give you a flash in the pan good time now and then but on balance, it is a long ugly haul...Get Out, Get Out!! Same thing for women that have Borderline Personality Disorder...they are wicked!


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## southerngirl78 (Sep 1, 2011)

I think you should tell her that your the man she should be telling she loves bj's. Maybe you should just come straight out and ask her if she wants a divorce. I would be very concerned for the children with her refusing treatment for the BPD.


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## sprinter (Jul 25, 2011)

My wife didn't like it when our counselor started seeing issues with her either. I didn't read the whole thread but I'll give you this advice. I'm typically a "do everything you can for the kids" type of guy. Make a good effort to reach out to her. But then prepare to get out of this. You're wife has serious issues and refuses to do anything about them. Been there, done that, and finally getting out of it. Get out, fight for your kids, and move on. This woman sounds passive aggressive.


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## LonelyHusband (Sep 2, 2011)

sprinter said:


> My wife didn't like it when our counselor started seeing issues with her either. I didn't read the whole thread but I'll give you this advice. I'm typically a "do everything you can for the kids" type of guy. Make a good effort to reach out to her. But then prepare to get out of this. You're wife has serious issues and refuses to do anything about them. Been there, done that, and finally getting out of it. Get out, fight for your kids, and move on. This woman sounds passive aggressive.


I know, that's what is making this so hard...I already can feel the pain that they are going to feel and it hurts so much. She says she doesn't want to break up the marriage, she just wants to "co-habitate", I said you have to be kidding, living with someone you don't want to be intimate with or have sex ever...I even said is there anything we can do to save the marriage and I get nothing...can't take this....


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

When you are ready to stop acting like a victim, I will take you through some steps that could possibly help you. 

But first you need to take responsibility for your life and stop redirecting this towards the impact on the children. Because growing up in a loveless/sexless marriage where mommy tells her counselor she loves to give BJ's and Daddy just lets that happen - is NOT good for the kids. And of course I know the kids don't know THAT. But in order for THAT (the BJ comment) outcome to have happened, you need to have let her remove your spine and your balls. And if you think the kids don't see that you are sadly mistaken. 




LonelyHusband said:


> I know, that's what is making this so hard...I already can feel the pain that they are going to feel and it hurts so much. She says she doesn't want to break up the marriage, she just wants to "co-habitate", I said you have to be kidding, living with someone you don't want to be intimate with or have sex ever...I even said is there anything we can do to save the marriage and I get nothing...can't take this....


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## LonelyHusband (Sep 2, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> When you are ready to stop acting like a victim, I will take you through some steps that could possibly help you.
> 
> But first you need to take responsibility for your life and stop redirecting this towards the impact on the children. Because growing up in a loveless/sexless marriage where mommy tells her counselor she loves to give BJ's and Daddy just lets that happen - is NOT good for the kids. And of course I know the kids don't know THAT. But in order for THAT (the BJ comment) outcome to have happened, you need to have let her remove your spine and your balls. And if you think the kids don't see that you are sadly mistaken.



I would love to hear those steps....trust me I'm not a pushover and if we didn't have kids involved, I would be long gone, but they are the best thing I have right now. I have fought and fought with her over the emails I have seen and I have already made my second appointment with my lawyer....


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Just disclosing. . .divorce will only marginally improve your sex life, at least that's what I have found. ESPECIALLY WITH KIDS.

Instead of never, expect "irregularly" in between girlfriends and such.

Make your decision with that gain in mind.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

We need to start differentiating if you are going to move forward. I absolutely believe that "outside" of your marriage you are not a pushover. So lets accept the truth of that statement. I want you to read the post below and let us know to what degree you enforce your boundaries. 

Boundary handbook:

Introduction

Boundary testing: A boundary test is an interaction that violates the golden rule (do unto others as you would have them do unto you). 

This handbook is for folks in LTRs including marriage. It is mostly predicated on two things: (1) situational awareness and (2) self control. Being highly aware of boundary testing behaviors will only help you if you are able to manage your Anger, Fear and Insecurity. Get a handle on those and the rest of this is just technique. Practice and you will get good at it. 

If you want to get the most out of this handbook, you should consider the strategies below. 
1.	This is about patterns of behavior not the occasional oops. The purpose here is not to turn anyone into a hyper-vigilant whack job who takes everything personally. It is intended to help identify important patterns. 
2.	After a first read, while filled with indignation about all of your partner’s boundary violations, ask yourself:
a.	How often you do this type of stuff to them
b.	When you do it, do they make a big deal about it, or not
c.	Whether this is a boundary issue or a different type of relationship issue (maybe you talk too much about stuff they find boring, or maybe you complain a lot more than you realize)
3.	If you decide that your boundaries really are getting badly violated, take heart:
a.	Your partner is likely VERY consistent. This means you can plan ahead how you will respond to these boundary breaching behaviors.
b.	Humor is best, but you should be teasing THEM. Absent humor, be VERY short on words. Instead use of tone of voice and body language. And stay calm – they may not be calm – but you must. 
4.	Are they really behaving badly “overall” or are your standards unrealistic? The best way to triangulate:
a.	Do your friends/family show much more respect for your boundaries than your partner does? 
b.	Does your partner show much more respect for their friends and families boundaries than yours? 

In general you have a serious problem if your partner treats other people noticeably better than they treat you. And if other people treat you a lot better than your partner, that is another bad sign. 

The good news. Even if your partner is consistently violating your boundaries and treating you worse than they treat the maid, it is likely fixable. In fact boundary management can become one of the most entertaining aspects of your marriage if you master it. Engage properly with your “boundary testing partner” and it will help you reach your full emotional potential. And a partner who helps you reach your full potential is by definition a great partner. The stuff below is rarely malicious, it is just a “style of interaction”. 

The bad news. If you do not enforce your boundaries, your partner will gradually lose respect and ultimately love for you. They will frequently do things to you they would absolutely not accept you or anyone else doing to them and they will slowly but surely get “worse” over time. You have two choices, learn how to enforce your boundaries, or continue getting your butt slowly but steadily kicked until you literally have no a$$ left and no choice but to stand at attention and do “each and every little thing that pops into their head” until they tire of you and find someone more fun to play with. 

The way a typical person deals with a boundary testing partner is this: 
-	The tester does a series of minor things you dislike. Each of those things is below your threshold for conflict. Hey you’re a grownup. You don’t sweat the small stuff. You don’t want to be petty. Besides you love your spouse and these individual items are “NOT WORTH A FIGHT”. Meanwhile you DO notice this stuff and it is slowly making you angry. 
-	Finally they do one more of them after you have had a long stressful day, or you are tired, or worse have had a few beers. You now erupt into high intensity conflict HIC mode. You say and do inappropriate things. When the dust settles you apologize for being a jerk. Which you SHOULD, because you WERE a jerk. Classic passive/aggressive. Very destructive. After having that happen enough you decide you no longer want to fight (since you always lose) and you simply become passive/passive. 

If you want to get good at this the first step is to recognize the main categories of boundary testing:
1.	I am more important than you are (my time, my feelings, my priorities, my money, my social status)
2.	You are not important: Everything and everybody else in my life consistently gets prioritized ahead of you. 
3.	I am able to directly control your emotional state. I can make you angry, afraid and/or insecure at will
4.	I am able to manipulate your actions through a combination of 1 and 2 in a manner that clearly violates the golden rule 

Before digging into the long, near exhaustive (and therefore possibly boring  list of categorized boundary violating behaviors), I am going to hit the “deadly” dozen. I am starting with the topic of apologies. Or non-apologies. Or one of my favorites “I’m mad at you because you’re mad at me”. 

Chapter 1: I am more important than you are
I have noticed a behavioral trend. There are a growing number of people who have convinced their spouses that they simply “don’t apologize”. This like many statements is entirely false when taken literally and completely true if you actually finish the “unspoken” end of their sentence. 

Apologies: The technical term for this section is “error management”. I am not even going to call this “conflict” management. Because there are folks who excel at “jumping over” their own bad behavior. Literally they pretend like nothing happened, and they often get away with it. This is a big aspect of a relationship, maybe even be THE biggest one. We all make mistakes, treat each other unfairly, etc. The list below goes from your basic perfect world, slowly down the steps to Hell. For the purpose of this discussion, let’s pick a case where a few things are true. (1) Your partner has very clearly treated you badly. (2) There is no way they would tolerate you doing to them, what they just did to you. (3) You are no longer “in the moment”, and in fact have some quality time in which the event can/should be addressed. 

I call this section “apologies” only because that is actually the standard way in which 21st century people think about redress. The irony is that a “spoken” apology might mean a lot, and it might mean almost nothing. You cannot tell the first time around. You can however tell if someone keeps doing the same “unkind” thing to you and then sincerely apologizing. Those apologies are worse than hollow, they reflect your partners belief that you are unable to spot large contradictions between what they say and do. 

After your partner treats you badly:

1.	GOLD STANDARD: THEY bring it up shortly after because they don’t wait to see if you will let it go. THEY believe you deserve better than that. They apologize, commit to behaving better next time, and do something nice for you to show their contrition is sincere.
2.	When you bring it up they apologize, commit to fixing it and perform some acts of contrition. 
3.	They don’t apologize but they DO commit to not repeating the behavior. If sincere, this is actually WAY more important than an apology. 
4.	They sincerely apologize but avoid committing to change. Beware the “empty” apology that means nothing. This step is however a positive step. By the second or third empty apology you simply begin insisting on a commitment to improve.
5.	They flat out refuse to commit to handling that type situation differently/better in the future 
6.	They give you the non-apology. Some variation of “I am sorry if that hurt your feelings”. The implication is that you are too sensitive. 
7.	They go into “lawyer” mode and explain that while normally this behavior is frowned on, in this specific case it was justified by “insert long, self serving rationalization”. 
8.	They directly blame you. If only you hadn’t forgotten to take about the trash on Memorial day 3 years ago, they wouldn’t still be angry and would never have done this. 
9.	They deny the whole thing. Look you in the eye and deny that it ever happened. 
10.	They deny the whole thing and attack you for even SUGGESTING they might do something like that.
11.	They deny, attack you for suggesting it and then blow it up into “I am not even talking to you until you apologize” for even saying such a thing. 


Assuming you are generally emotionally positive/upbeat and are also conversationally competent, (you don’t subject your partner to endless observations about particle physics, needlepoint, or other stuff they find deadly boring) the stuff below is “I am more important than you”

Focus: 
Some litmus test questions for focus are: 
1.	How difficult is it to get your partners full and undivided attention? 
2.	Does your partner expect or demand your undivided attention, but rarely give you theirs?
3.	Does your partner try to avoid situations where the two of you block out the rest of the world?

If you are interesting and fun to be with, you should address these types of behaviors because they tend to cause ripple effects throughout the relationship. 

Quality Time:
While having dinner for two your partners phone comes out and stays out while they multi-task between your conversation, and a phone based game/texting/talking on the phone. In an extreme case, the phone, not you, is primary focus. This applies to any “one on one” situation including standing in a long line. 

It is ok if your partner is “child focused” to the point where they feel the need to be “available” to the kids/baby sitter while you are out. But that means they only take calls from the kids, keep them brief AND emphasize to the kids/sitter that they want communication limited to urgent matters. 

In the normal course of your day, it is a bad idea to:
1.	Allow your partner to get in the habit of initiating a conversation with you while they are engaged in an activity (reading/texting) that also requires concentration. 
2.	Get in the habit of initiating a conversation while your partner is doing something (reading/texting) with you expecting and clearly being agreeable to getting at most partial attention.
3.	Continue a conversation even though your partner is getting frequently interrupted by non-urgent kids/calls/texts/etc. If they are legitimately busy, go do something else. Hey you have a phone too.
4.	Continue a conversation when your partner is clearly distracted/not fully engaged due to their "internal" state (boredom, fatigue, anxiety about something). If they are anxious about something, get them to talk about it. But don’t settle for partial attention. 

Prioritization:
Don’t confuse “focus” with “prioritization”. A good example of the distinction: You spend 8 uninterrupted hours together, and your partner is focused – but the WHOLE conversation is about THEM. Even worse, when you attempt to actually change the subject to you, they quickly steer it back to themselves. This is a matter of “I am paying attention to you solely to ensure we are both completely focused on ME”. 
Some litmus test questions for prioritization are: 
1.	How often does your partner really want to know about your day? I don’t mean they ask the perfunctory “how was your day”? I mean, they really want to know. And when you tell them they empathize and even ask some questions. 
2.	How often do you actually do what “you” want, when your partner wants to do something else? 
3.	How often do they even open up with “what/where would you like to “go/do”?

The spectrum for handling priority “conflicts” is below. From “great” to – “why don’t my needs matter”?:
1.	Giving: They know you. And that means they know what matters to you. If the conflict is in an area where it is very important to you, and not so much to them, they smile and do what makes you happy. 
2.	Proactive: THEY suggest a solution which meets both your needs even if it isn’t exactly what you want right now. 
3.	Reactive/cooperative: They don’t make a win/win suggestion, but are fully receptive to yours
4.	Reactive/resistant: They resist but ultimately agree to the win/win
5.	Oppositional/defiant: They refuse the win/win even when it is fair. They want what they want. What you want – well that doesn’t matter because ummmm – well – you don’t matter.

B. Tone: (from good to – why the hell did I marry this person)
1.	Using a loving, patient and kind tone
2.	Using a neutral tone
3.	Speaking to you as if you are less than an equal/a servant - issuing commands - instead of making requests 
4.	Responding to a serious/awkward question you have asked - with silence
5.	Interrupting you frequently and/or interrupting you without acknowledging they have done so with a - "sorry I interrupted - what were you saying"?
6.	Allowing or subtly encouraging THEIR friends/family to routinely interrupt you 
7.	Frequently putting you down in private sometimes under the guise of joking around 
8.	Putting you down in public 
9.	Being quickly/casually dismissive of your suggestions, requests and/or ideas
10.	When you first see each other at the end of a work day immediately complaining, nagging, launching into a long detailed self focused interaction
11.	Responding with impatience/anger/indifference when you are trying to convey something important/intimate about yourself (such as initiating sex, or actually while you are having sex, or sharing a painful experience)

2. If you let them, these “may or may not be” examples of “I can control your emotional state”: 
A.	In the middle of a low emotion conversation you get “sucker punched”. Which means your partner is being highly critical of you, and/or is very angry/threatening towards you without any warning and with little or no apparent reason
B.	Trying to get you to own “their” emotions. For instance “I am too stressed” to ever be in the mood. This is an indirect way to say “unless you can remove most/all the stressors from my environment” you will be involuntary celibate “inCel”
C.	Repeatedly delivering a critical or negative message wrapped in humor and claiming “they are just kidding”
D.	Taking their bad day out “on” you, instead of sharing it “with” you 
E.	Attacking your “core” instead of addressing a situation
F.	Attacking your behavior with “always and never” you always “…” you never “…” 
G.	Rapidly escalating in emotional intensity and aggressiveness when you disagree with how they are treating you
H.	Working the “fear” button by:
o Vague or not so vague threats to end the relationship
o	Forming and pursuing inappropriate relationships with potential mates

3. If you let them, these “may or may not be” examples of “I can control your behavior”: 
A. Acting angry when:
o	They were clearly in the wrong until YOU apologize or
o	Until YOU try to defuse by being extra nice even if you don’t overtly apologize
o	You bring up a topic they don’t want to discuss (lack of sex, rude behavior on their part, inconsiderate behavior on their part)
o	You talk about doing something they don’t want you to do, and when asked about “why” they don’t want you to do it, giving you the “shutdown” via “I am not going to discuss this with you”. Staying angry until you agree not to do it
o	They aren’t getting their way
B. Accusing YOU of being controlling when:
o	You are simply enforcing reasonable boundaries 
o	You are asking them to follow through on a commitment 
C. Getting you to complement them or even getting you to initiate sex when they have no intention of saying yes
o	Flirting with you during the day and then avoiding bed until they are “too tired”
o	Flirting with you and then when you initiate, creating some conflict to avoid sex
o	Asking you for compliments on their appearance when they never reciprocate 

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LonelyHusband said:


> I would love to hear those steps....trust me I'm not a pushover and if we didn't have kids involved, I would be long gone, but they are the best thing I have right now. I have fought and fought with her over the emails I have seen and I have already made my second appointment with my lawyer....


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> We need to start differentiating if you are going to move forward.


Can this be "sticky-fied"? If it isn't somewhere that can easily be found / referred to, it ought to be.

Just one thing:



> the golden rule (do unto others as you would have them do unto you).


Make sure that you are both more or less on the same page with the rule. Person A will do something to person B that upsets person B, because it breaks their (B's) golden rule, and person B would never do it to anyone (because they don't want to be treated that way). Person A couldn't care less, because if someone treats them like that it doesn't bother them at all. Therefore they do it to others because they don't care if it's done to them.

Watch out for this.


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