# Wife cheated, and I don't want to cheat back,but still want to have sex..Advice



## Raymond290 (Jan 14, 2015)

I'm in a difficult situation here.I found out 3 months ago that my wife had an affair. I'm still pretty upset.I don't want to cheat on her.But I still have my needs,and every night I'm going to bed with a woman lying next to me.It would feel strange having sex with my wife after discovering her affair.But again,I haven't had sex in 3 months,and don't want to cheat.It feels like I'm losing my mind here.Just looking for some advice.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

What are you two dealing with healing from the damage the affair has done? Or has it just been swept under the rug?

3 months is still very early in the healing process. You might get more useful guidance in the "Coping a With Infidelity" section, though. Intimacy may come back as damage is repaired. In any case, cheating isn't likely to "fix" anything, as you seem to be aware.

C


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

You're probably better off moving this thread to the infidelity section of the site. But how are the two of you dealing with the affair? Any remorse from her? Is it over or is she still cheating? Is she trying to help you cope with the betrayal? Does she initiate sex?


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## Raymond290 (Jan 14, 2015)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> You're probably better off moving this thread to the infidelity section of the site. But how are the two of you dealing with the affair? Any remorse from her? Is it over or is she still cheating? Is she trying to help you cope with the betrayal? Does she initiate sex?


She isn't showing as much remorse as I'd like. I believe that the affair is over. Right now our communication isn't where it used to be.We talk about the affair, but I wouldn't nessacarily say she is "helping me cope with it".She hasn't initiated sex at all...


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Raymond290 said:


> She isn't showing as much remorse as I'd like. I believe that the affair is over. Right now our communication isn't where it used to be.We talk about the affair, but I wouldn't nessacarily say she is "helping me cope with it".She hasn't initiated sex at all...


 Then tell her to leave and don't come back until she can show the type of remorse that is real and her actions show that she wants the marriage to work.

 IMO, I wouldn't want to have sex with her if I were you. Just the thought of her cheating should be enough to turn you off. 

Just don't get stupid and go look for revenge sex because then your no better then her. If need be go visit Rosie Palm and her 5 daughters in the bathroom.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

When a cheater doesn't want to have sex it means they're still being faithful to their affair partner.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I can under stand not wanting to make love to your wife.
Why reward her?
But if you need to bang her ...please wear a rain coat!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Have you and your old lady been tested for STD's?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

#1 question...is your old lady still screwing around?

If not, then don't even think about a revenge affair ...it doesn't help.

But if your old lady is having an exit affair...then go pay for "it" .....don't put some innocent women in the middle of all the crap!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Raymond290 said:


> She isn't showing as much remorse as I'd like. I believe that the affair is over. Right now our communication isn't where it used to be.We talk about the affair, but I wouldn't nessacarily say she is "helping me cope with it".She hasn't initiated sex at all...


Sir, please...you didn't *believe* she would cheat on you.....so please do not believe the affair is over!

I highly suggest you you do your own investigation to confirm what you *believe*!!!!!

I have been here way, I have to inform you that this infidelity crap is addicting!

Again , please confirm that this affair has stopped so you can work on your marriage.

Every one here at TAM knows as long as there is a third party still infecting the marriage .....the marriage is toast!

One can go to all the counseling, and be the best spouse in the world....it won't mean crap as long as there is an out side influence.


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## Raymond290 (Jan 14, 2015)

6301 said:


> Then tell her to leave and don't come back until she can show the type of remorse that is real and her actions show that she wants the marriage to work.
> 
> IMO, I wouldn't want to have sex with her if I were you. Just the thought of her cheating should be enough to turn you off.
> 
> If need be go visit Rosie Palm and her 5 daughters in the bathroom.


Just tell her to leave. Wow. Now that's tough to do.Its more complicated than that.The thought of her cheating does turn me off, in fact. But still, I haven't gone this long without sex since I lost my virginity. And I have a woman laying next to me every night.


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## Raymond290 (Jan 14, 2015)

the guy said:


> I can under stand not wanting to make love to your wife.
> Why reward her?
> But if you need to bang her ...please wear a rain coat!


I actually was VERY tempted to initiate sex with her tonight...But didn't.You have to understand, we haven't had sex in 3 months and I'm going crazy over here.


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## Rags (Aug 2, 2010)

Until you at least start to resolve the infidelity and issues arising from it (loss of trust, betrayal, etc) nothing else will get fixed.

Sex won't solve any problem here (any more than visiting the bathroom will - and the bathroom raises far fewer issues, including -depending on where you live - whether adultery can be considered a factor in initiating divorce.)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

How did you catch her?
How long did the affair last?
Have you been married long?
What is her explanation?
Does she say she loves you?
Did your wife have many sex partners before you?
Have you discussed who you have told about the affair?


The affair may be over in actions, but mentally she may still be with OM. Are you acting needy? Are you afraid of pity sex?


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

Have the two of you gotten STD tests?


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## Seppuku (Sep 22, 2010)

I think that to start, you need to ask yourself a few questions.

1. Do you want the marriage to work, to survive the affair?
2. Does your wife want to save the marriage?
3. Are you both willing to _actively_ work on restoring your relationship?

If the answer is no to any of these questions, then the marriage cannot survive.

If yes, you should proceed:

1. Do you understand the reason for the affair?
2. Is the reason something that is "fixable?"
3. Is she willing to be an open book to you, to be completely honest?
4. Is she willing to take steps to ensure that it never happens again? [the most basic of which is cutting off all communication with the other man]

It's a tricky situation for you, but honestly if you want to have sex and you feel like you can't do it with your wife, you have to determine first if this is a dealbreaker (in which case the marriage would be over). If not, you need to be prepared for a tough road ahead on the way to forgiveness.

You could just tell her how you feel - that you want to be with her, but you also don't want to be with her. Ask her how she would feel if you went elsewhere for sex while you work through your feelings (not that you have intentions on actually doing it). Her reaction will tell you a lot.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

If I were you, I wouldn't try to initiate sex with her until these infidelity issues are really resolved and it's going to take time.
The posters so far are dead on.

Having said that, in the meantime, do what you need to do to survive. Sleep in another room if it's killing you that much. Do it yourself. I'm not a porn guy, but if that helps you get through this then do that. Whatever you do, don't cheat. Figure out a way to get your release without cheating and without degrading yourself by being needy with her.

It doesn't sound like she's over whatever was going on even if she's stopped contact. 

You need to bite this in the bud.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
why did she cheat, and why does she say she won't do it again?

Do you want to stay married to someone who will probably cheat again? (honest question - YOU need to decide for yourself, not listen to what people tell you you *should* do).


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## Raymond290 (Jan 14, 2015)

LongWalk said:


> How did you catch her?
> How long did the affair last?
> Have you been married long?
> What is her explanation?
> ...


 1.I found out when I heard something about her "having a crush on" a co-worker.I wasn't immediately suspicious but I heard some other things, and eventually I found text messages in her cell phone, and when I confronted her she admitted it.

2.The affair lasted eight months.
3.We've been married seven years.
4.She says" I just wanted to try something fresh and different, it had nothing to do with you".
5.I'm not sure,never asked.
6.Yes.She knows I told my mother.


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## Raymond290 (Jan 14, 2015)

chaos said:


> Have the two of you gotten STD tests?


No.And she recently admitted that they never used condoms........


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Was there by chance a clown suit involved?


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

My thoughts are 7 years in and she's having an 8 month affair...only admitting it after she was caught. It doesn't look good to me. 

You have to decide if this is something you will ever be able to get past. If not there is no sense beating a dead horse. Get out now. If you think you can get past it you still need her on side to make it work. It's not sounding as though she is.


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## Raymond290 (Jan 14, 2015)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Was there by chance a clown suit involved?


 Hmmmmm?


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Why in the world are you still in the bed next to her?

And have you got tested for STD?

Your penis is talking to you and thinking for you. I suggest you start thinking with your brain and not private parts FAST.


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## Raymond290 (Jan 14, 2015)

DoF said:


> Why in the world are you still in the bed next to her?
> 
> And have you got tested for STD?
> 
> Your penis is talking to you and thinking for you. I suggest you start thinking with your brain and not private parts FAST.


I'm laying in the bed next to her because we are trying to make it work. We went through about two months of not sleeping in the same bed.No,I have not been tested for any diseases.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You must be wondering if the sex with him was very good. She kept at it. If you begin to have sex with her, you may go through so-called hysterical bonding.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Raymond290 said:


> Hmmmmm?



TAM reader offering life lesson.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

It's actually very odd -- and doesn't bode well in terms of reconciliation -- that the two of you haven't been through any sort of hysterical bonding.

Was the affair ongoing when you discovered it, or had it already ended? If it had already ended, how much time had passed when you discovered the affair?

Is her affair partner married? If so, did you expose the affair to his wife?

Do the two of you have any children together?

First marriage for the both of you?


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

Raymond290 said:


> 4.She says" I just wanted to try something fresh and different, it had nothing to do with you".


Right Here.

This is the bomb. This is so hurtful and damaging that I can't believe you didn't kick (no - throw her) out.

This shows she has zero respect, zero compassion and zero love for you

Why?

Why are you allowing her to stay. She is a cheater at heart and will always be a cheater.

Do yourself a favor:
1) Contact a lawyer
2) Find out your rights
3) She needs to leave - you need her to be away from you
4) Start an exit plan
5) Detach and do the 180
6) Divorce


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

DoF said:


> Why in the world are you still in the bed next to her?
> 
> And have you got tested for STD?
> 
> Your penis is talking to you and thinking for you. I suggest you start thinking with your brain and not private parts FAST.


Given that OP is at 3 months post-D-Day and has managed to abstain from having sex w/ his wife, I'd say that he's been thinking w/ his brain instead of his c*ck.


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## Raymond290 (Jan 14, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> Was the affair ongoing when you discovered it, or had it already ended? If it had already ended, how much time had passed when you discovered the affair?
> 
> Is her affair partner married? If so, did you expose the affair to his wife?
> 
> ...


Yes, the affair was ongoing when I found out about it.It had been going on for 8 months. No he isn't married.Yes,we have a 7 year old and a 6year old. This is both of our first marriage.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Does she still work with him? If so, then she needs to quit that job and find another job. So long as they are in the same location, I don't see how she'll ever lose those feelings for the OM. From the sounds of it, she's doing little to nothing to make amends to you or trying to even repair this marriage. Sounds like she's grieving the loss of a relationship at best and at worst the affair is now going on in secret. 

If you're sexually frustrated, then masturbate. I would touch her until she starts taking some tangible actions to fix this to the best of her abilities:


Cut the OM out of her life completely. Includes no contact letter, quitting the job to get away from him and turning over all passwords to her email account(s), smartphone, computer, etc.
Provide you with as much detail as you need in order to figure out how bad this is. How many times did they have sex, where did they do it, and even what they did. You may need a lot of details in order to stop the mind movies. Everyone is different. Would include a timeline of meetups, etc so that you can put this tryst into context of your lives.
A lot of apologies, mea culpas and her willingness to help you process the betrayal. You may need her to keep repeating stories so that you can deal with what happened.
Counseling is likely needed, and I'd recommend it. Need to find a counselor that is experienced in marital infidelity - one who will hold cheaters accountable. You do not want a counsilor that will rug sweep the affair.
You will need to do things that are good for you personally. Lot's of me time like going to the gym, hanging out with good friends, going out on weekends while she watches the kids, etc. She needs to support you whenever you need time away from her.

Good luck with all this, you'll need it.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Raymond290 said:


> I actually was VERY tempted to initiate sex with her tonight...But didn't.You have to understand, we haven't had sex in 3 months and I'm going crazy over here.


OP you think you feel badly now?

Have sex with your cheating POSWW and then you will really feel like sh!t

Have some respect for yourself

You need sex ? Seperate from a remorseless WW and live your life

Let her feel the weight of that for a while.

55


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## Raymond290 (Jan 14, 2015)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Does she still work with him? If so, then she needs to quit that job and find another job. So long as they are in the same location, I don't see how she'll ever lose those feelings for the OM.
> 
> 
> [


No he doesn't work at her job anymore. He was actually fired months ago. My sister in law is their boss, and she fired him.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Raymond290 said:


> No he doesn't work at her job anymore. He was actually fired months ago. My sister in law is their boss, and she fired him.


So she knows about the affair? If not, and your spouse screwed around on company time, then your wife would likely get fired too.


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## Raymond290 (Jan 14, 2015)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> So she knows about the affair? If not, and your spouse screwed around on company time, then your wife would likely get fired too.


Well my Sister-in law actually found out that they were sleeping together after she fired him. And they weren't necessarily having sex on company time, they would have sex in his car during their lunch break and meet at hotels after he was fired.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Raymond290 said:


> No he doesn't work at her job anymore. He was actually fired months ago. *My sister in law is their boss, and she fired him.*


Ha ha! That's awesome!

Just curious... how did your wife react? Did she attempt to stick up for him at all?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Raymond290 said:


> Well my Sister-in law actually found out that they were sleeping together after she fired him. And they weren't necessarily having sex on company time, they would have sex in his car during their lunch break and meet at hotels after he was fired.


Oh. Not so awesome.


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

How are you holding up emotionally speaking? Experienced any roller coaster highs and lows since D-day?


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Raymond290 said:


> No.And she recently admitted that they never used condoms........


*The sad fact is that the vast majority of cheaters do not use condoms as it totally destroys the spontaniety of their sex! 

Even when they come back home, (just as my rich, skanky XW did) under their deceitful facade to also sleep with their unknowing marital partner, so as not to arouse any due suspicion on their part; and which usually only occurs when they want to psychologically hurt them, either knowingly or wittingly, in some morbid way! 

But in most cases, however, they will rarely ever break their "bonds of loyalty and fidelity" to their affair partner, even to sleep with their own spouse!

At this juncture, Raymond, I absolutely wouldn't touch her with a borrowed appendage! She made her bed ~ let her lay in it!

And if she's showing no remorse in wanting to try to embrace reconcilliation, then perhaps you should be scheduling a visit to a good family attorney's office to start discussing the protection of your rights as well as your assets!*


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

arbitrator said:


> *The sad fact is that the vast majority of cheaters do not use condoms as it totally destroys the spontaniety of their sex!
> 
> Even when they come back home, (just as my rich, skanky XW did) under their deceitful facade to also sleep with their unknowing marital partner, so as not to arouse any due suspicion on their part; and which usually only occurs when they want to psychologically hurt them, either knowingly or wittingly, in some morbid way!
> 
> ...


Just ewww. Thank god I found out about my x before I slept with her again.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

OP. You need a plan here is all. What do you want to do? Make it work....if so you both need in marriage counseling asap. Lying there not proactively working on reconciliation is never going to get it done. This will take a lot of work. A lot of apologizing and owning on her part and a lot of listening and forgiving on your part.

If you don't think you will ever look at her the same, and in your position who could blame you, then it's time to move on and find a better woman. 

What you can't do is sit still and wait for this to magically get better. Just doesn't work that way


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Raymond290 said:


> 1.I found out when I heard something about her "having a crush on" a co-worker.I wasn't immediately suspicious but I heard some other things, and eventually I found text messages in her cell phone, and when I confronted her she admitted it.
> 
> 2.The affair lasted eight months.
> 3.We've been married seven years.
> ...


8 months affair? She is in it deep and this will not go away overnight. She appears to have detached from you completely.

If she wants to try something fresh hand her D papers and see how fresh it gets. Do not sweep this under the rug. Also, expose the hell out of it. Not just mom. Everybody!


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Raymond290 said:


> Well my Sister-in law actually found out that they were sleeping together after she fired him. And they weren't necessarily having sex on company time, they would have sex in his car during their lunch break and meet at hotels after he was fired.



That is cold and calculating. Are you sure there is NC? No burner phone, etc? Honestly, it appears your W is still in the affair as she is exhibiting nothing related to wanting to R.


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## dental (Apr 16, 2014)

Let me see: you are lying besides your woman. Who 'just' wanted something new and exciting. Which she did in a parking lot. Which she never communicated with you. And you are besides her in your bed. With a boner. And you don't dare to touch her. Why? For her it's fine, she can fantasize over OP, stay faithful to OP, dream of OP. And you are there with your blue balls. This relationship doesn't seem equal. She does what she likes, you follow her lead. You haven't lost your mind, you've lost your balls. Find them quick and reclaim your life now.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Raymond290 said:


> Well my Sister-in law actually found out that they were sleeping together after she fired him. And they weren't necessarily having sex on company time, they would have sex in his car during their lunch break and meet at hotels after he was fired.


SO your SIL actually supported the A by not telling you about being made the fool of. Really don't envy you at family functions as there is not telling how many else have been informed and are keeping their mouths shut and supporting vicariously as well.

I would bet dollars to donuts that she is still with him. She was in an ongoing A that has supposedly only stopped since discovered (even a firing and finding out by family/ employer didn't stop or hinder the A). She was doing you and him at the same time unprotected with no regard for your or her safety. Now she has been 3 months without sex (assuming she is doing the same as you)? Not buying it, so she went from 2x the sex to nothing cold turkey and she is supposed to be happy with that? Not a chance and why she wouldn't try and initiate says loads in my opinion.


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

If she is not doing what you really feel in your heart she needs to do then its not reconciliation. Its you giving her a place to stay until her and the OM get a place together. 

Welcome to being second.


If you want to change this then you are going to have to change. Your way of thinking is not working out so well so far. She does not respect you because your not demanding it. Doing the right thing for you isn't always easy but it is still the right thing. 

I would tell her either she changes this and NOW or she packs. 

The longer you say its "ok" to abuse me she will continue to do so. 

Clay


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

What have been the consequences to her affair?

You seem like one of the nice guys. I am willing to bet that your wife would still be screwing him now if she was not caught. In addition, I think she thought even if she got caught you would not leave her so she really had nothing to lose.

Her comment that she wanted to try something fresh and new is really something. I guess she would not mind if you tried something fresh and new and put her health at risk for STD's. The fact that she did not even bother to use protection indicates how little respect she has for you. Finally, in 8 months you know there had to be times when you were with her after she was with him.

How can you have respect for her knowing she was banging her lover in a car during lunch breaks? If you do not respect yourself then who will? I wonder if this is really her first rodeo?


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Clay2013 said:


> If she is not doing what you really feel in your heart she needs to do then its not reconciliation. Its you giving her a place to stay until her and the OM get a place together.
> 
> Welcome to being second.
> 
> ...


I agree here. You are more than likely plan B. The affair is ongoing as your W has done nothing to repair the damage. 

Seriously, it is time to show some consequences. File for D. You can always retract the D later if necessary. Start to work on yourself and make plans that entail you moving on without her. Then and only then does this become a reality to her. You as plan B is blown out to the water. This action will really be fresh and new.....with a bitter taste for your W.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Squeakr said:


> SO your SIL actually supported the A by not telling you about being made the fool of. Really don't envy you at family functions as there is not telling how many else have been informed and are keeping their mouths shut and supporting vicariously as well.


Eh... I didn't read it like that. It sounds to me like the SIL found out about the affair at around the same time that OP did.



Squeakr said:


> I would bet dollars to donuts that she is still with him. She was in an ongoing A that has supposedly only stopped since discovered (even a firing and finding out by family/ employer didn't stop or hinder the A). She was doing you and him at the same time unprotected with no regard for your or her safety. Now she has been 3 months without sex (assuming she is doing the same as you)? Not buying it, so she went from 2x the sex to nothing cold turkey and she is supposed to be happy with that? Not a chance and *why she wouldn't try and initiate says loads in my opinion.*


I agree w/ the part in bold. As for the rest... eh... who knows? Hopefully OP has done his due diligence in that regard, though.

OP, did your wife end the affair and go NC (no contact) w/ OM upon your discovery of the affair, or did she draw it out for days/weeks/months afterward?


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Wolf1974 said:


> Just ewww. Thank god I found out about my x before I slept with her again.


*You shudder, Wolf, but It happened to meI The sad fact was that I never found out about the existence of any of it until some 8-9 months into our separation, by my thoroughly having analyzed her cell phone/texting usage and also having a detective friend of mine provide me with all of her damning, lurid FB passages to both of her OM right after her road trips to go see them, while leaving me at home to tend to things there and work the farm, thinking she was indeed away from home on legitimate business. Then rushing right home and rolling my bones, while I was totally blind and oblivious to any of her extracurricular hijinks! All while obviously being her unwitting "Plan B!"

I can only pray that this never ever happened to Raymond , or for that matter, to anybody else!*


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## italianjob (May 7, 2014)

OP, you don't seem to care about your wife cheating. Remember that no consequences means that she'll bang anyone she fancies every time she likes. I hope you don't want to live like that...

She had unprotected sex! That means you both have to get tested for STDs! 
Remember that if she goes on with that kind of behavior you will Always be at risk for STDs and might end up having to raise another man's child.

Given the moral compass she shows you should DNA test your kids, IMO.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> Eh... I didn't read it like that. It sounds to me like the SIL found out about the affair at around the same time that OP did.


Initially I thought that as well,, but then noticed he said after the firing that they continued it by going to hotels and such. So I took it as the SIL found out shortly after the firing, but that she had known for some time before the OP found out. I could be wrong though as the timeline provided is very vague, other than 8 months that she claims and either way the SIL knew prior to the OP so she was hiding it from him. It is very odd too for someone to just seek out an A for excitement. That says something about her character, and if she was doing so, then I don't see her going without sex for 3 months (which leads me back to my other points about her still with the AP in some way).


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

She needs to be made to understand what she did you and the children.

She cheated on you and the children.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

arbitrator said:


> *You shudder, Wolf, but It happened to meI The sad fact was that I never found out about the existence of any of it until some 8-9 months into our separation, by my thoroughly having analyzed her cell phone/texting usage and also having a detective friend of mine provide me with all of her damning, lurid FB passages to both of her OM right after her road trips to go see them, while leaving me at home to tend to things there and work the farm, thinking she was indeed away from home on legitimate business. Then rushing right home and rolling my bones, while I was totally blind and oblivious to any of her extracurricular hijinks! All while obviously being her unwitting "Plan B!"
> 
> I can only pray that this never ever happened to Raymond , or for that matter, to anybody else!*


Frighteningly I don't think it's uncommon for a person having an affair to step up sex with the primary partner. Partly they may be overcompensating and partly they are probably just generally more sexualized when they're in the midst of an illicit affair.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Raymond290 said:


> Just tell her to leave. Wow. Now that's tough to do.Its more complicated than that.The thought of her cheating does turn me off, in fact. But still, I haven't gone this long without sex since I lost my virginity. And I have a woman laying next to me every night.


 Yeah and with that kind of attitude, she'll know that all it takes is a little sex here and there and it will keep you in line and then she can rug sweep that whole mess away.

Come on man, if you go that route, then all your doing is handing her your pride, dignity, and self respect on a silver platter. 

Start thinking with your big head, not your little one.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

If you want to get her attention then file for a divorce and have her served at work. Maybe then she'll get the idea that he ways of doing things are over and she has to face the music. 

It would be a eye opener to her since she thinks that you would never do anything like that.


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

6301 said:


> If you want to get her attention then file for a divorce and have her served at work. Maybe then she'll get the idea that he ways of doing things are over and she has to face the music.
> 
> It would be a eye opener to her since she thinks that you would never do anything like that.




I think he is not that much worried about the cheating but the problem here is that she is not initiating sex. Why should she initiate when she is getting it from her OM?

Are you sure that the A ended completely?


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## Locke.Stratos (Sep 27, 2014)

I'm fascinated by you. You're probably the most chilled person on Earth.

You seem so non chalant for a man who has discovered that his wife had an eight month affair. I'm having trouble feeling sympathy for you because you don't seem that bothered over it, like it's not a big deal.

There's no anger, hurt, pain, confusion or wanting answers on your part.

I will say this. If your wife isn't interested and hasn't initiated sex with you it's because she is still involved with her lover, emotionally and maybe physically. I can't comment on the latter but but perhaps they're communication is still ongoing without your knowledge.

She is being "faithful" to her lover by maintaining a roommate relationship with you and not being intimate.

If she hasn't demonstrated true remorse by now it's probably because she is staying in the marriage only because it is convenient. Your marriage and life provide her with security, a home and maintain her social image and status.

At three months the revelation and betrayal is still fresh so it could be that you are still in shock and in denial about the extent of the affair and everything it involved from texting and talking to kissing, running their hands all over each others bodies and his fingers and p**** inside of her.

I wouldn't want to have sex with her after all of that but you'r probably experiencing increased arousal that leads some couples into hysterical bonding.


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

If you have sex with your wfe use a condom. You don't want to get her pregnant.


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## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

Has she given a full time line of the affair
When she started to fall for him what they use to do and when ..when did it go PA and you need to know WHY


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Graywolf2 said:


> If you have sex with your wife use a condom. You don't want to get her pregnant.


*Let me just say that I, for one, am not totally thrilled by the prospects of being invited to either insert my "Jimmy Dean" into or to dine orally at some "deceptive orifice" that is being fastideously used by another man! Just sayin'!*


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## Raymond290 (Jan 14, 2015)

Locke.Stratos said:


> I'm fascinated by you. You're probably the most chilled person on Earth.
> 
> You seem so non chalant for a man who has discovered that his wife had an eight month affair. I'm having trouble feeling sympathy for you because you don't seem that bothered over it, like it's not a big deal.
> 
> There's no anger, hurt, pain, confusion or wanting answers on your part.


Maybe I didn't express those feelings in my posts here, but believe me there is.I feel like an idiot. And the fact that it went on for eight months.....Perhaps you feel that way because I contemplated having sex with her?


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## Raymond290 (Jan 14, 2015)

Kallan Pavithran said:


> I think he is not that much worried about the cheating but the problem here is that she is not initiating sex. Why should she initiate when she is getting it from her OM?
> 
> Are you sure that the A ended completely?


All indications are that the affair is over. I actually had someone follow her on 6 or 7 different occasions and the person reported no signs of any sort of inappropriate contact with any man. I now have access to her cell phone,e-mail address,facebook passwords,etc.And I know,of course she isn't going to have inappropriate discussions with another man while I have all her passwords but still.


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

Kallan Pavithran said:


> I think he is not that much worried about the cheating but the problem here is that she is not initiating sex. Why should she initiate when she is getting it from her OM?
> 
> Are you sure that the A ended completely?


I AGREE....I don't think it's over either. 

File for divorce. You have a cheater wife who isn't attracted to you anymore. You need to show her you have a backbone.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Raymond290 said:


> Maybe I didn't express those feelings in my posts here, but believe me there is.I feel like an idiot. And the fact that it went on for eight months.....Perhaps you feel that way because I contemplated having sex with her?


More than likely in a cheaters mind when you found out and you didn't ask her to leave she lost respect for you and she can't have sex with someone she doesn't respect.
Two good books...
"No More Mr Nice Guy"
"Married Mans Sex Life Primer"


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

Raymond290 said:


> Maybe I didn't express those feelings in my posts here, but believe me there is.I feel like an idiot. And the fact that it went on for eight months.....Perhaps you feel that way because I contemplated having sex with her?


You need to go home tonight. Look her straight in the eyes and tell her look this is now on you. If you don't start showing me that this marriage is worth fighting for then you need to pack your bags. 

It sucks but in these cases you have to be ready to throw everything away in order to really get a chance to save it. She has to know and I mean KNOW without a doubt that you are serious. If you ever want to fix your marriage this is the time you stand up for yourself. 

Clay


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Raymond290 said:


> All indications are that the affair is over. I actually had someone follow her on 6 or 7 different occasions and the person reported no signs of any sort of inappropriate contact with any man. I now have access to her cell phone,e-mail address,facebook passwords,etc.And I know,of course she isn't going to have inappropriate discussions with another man while I have all her passwords but still.


If there is a will there is a way. I do not think the A has ended specifically as she is totally detached from you. She has not made any progress in rectifying the situation.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Clay2013 said:


> You need to go home tonight. Look her straight in the eyes and tell her look this is now on you. If you don't start showing me that this marriage is worth fighting for then you need to pack your bags.
> 
> It sucks but in these cases you have to be ready to throw everything away in order to really get a chance to save it. She has to know and I mean KNOW without a doubt that you are serious. If you ever want to fix your marriage this is the time you stand up for yourself.
> 
> Clay


:iagree:

Time for your W to see the light.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Yeswecan said:


> If there is a will there is a way. I do not think the A has ended specifically as she is totally detached from you. She has not made any progress in rectifying the situation.


:iagree::iagree:
Sound like Roadschollar's thread 6 months no sex he checks her phone and bam affair still on.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Has your wife attempted to initiate sex w/ you at all?

Conversely, if you were to initiate, do you feel that she'd be receptive?

If you truly wish to reconcile your marriage, sexual intimacy will have to resume between the two of you at some point... there's just no way that the two of you will be able rebuild (or even maintain) your marriage w/o it.


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## Raymond290 (Jan 14, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> Has your wife attempted to initiate sex w/ you at all?
> 
> Conversely, if you were to initiate, do you feel that she'd be receptive?
> 
> If you truly wish to reconcile your marriage, sexual intimacy will have to resume between the two of you at some point... there's just no way that the two of you will be able rebuild (or even maintain) your marriage w/o it.


No, she has not initiated at all. I believe that if and when I decide to initiate she will be receptive. Our communication is a bit better than some of the posters on here believe. But it does feel awkward around the house and in bed. The lack of sex is extremely frustrating.What I've been wondering is, should I simply have sex with her tonight and use her physically and without an emotional connection? Just as a physical release?


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

there are areas where infidelity can be used to your advantage in a divorce, but resuming relations with your WW eliminates the advantage. Or so I have read on this forum.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Why don't you ask her if she has been tested for stds before you start back up with her.

You do not want to get those stds.

Ask her if it is okay that since she opened up the marriage without telling you, if she would be willing to pay for counseling like a place like affair recovery?

You can find them online.

You can't control your wife's actions, but there can be consequences. You need to expose to her mother as well. 

Do not try anything with her until you know she is clean.

Has she given you a timeline of the A?

Why is she back in your bed without completing the tested for stds?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Raymond290 said:


> No, she has not initiated at all. I believe that if and when I decide to initiate she will be receptive. Our communication is a bit better than some of the posters on here believe. But it does feel awkward around the house and in bed. The lack of sex is extremely frustrating.What I've been wondering is, should I simply have sex with her tonight and use her physically and without an emotional connection? Just as a physical release?


Are you not feeling a connection to her at all?

Either way, like I said, if you want to reconcile, intimacy will have to resume.

Someone mentioned STDs earlier in the thread... have either of you been tested yet? If not, I wouldn't initiate sex w/o some condoms at the ready.


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## dental (Apr 16, 2014)

Seriously wondering why the only thing on your mind, the only thing on your to do list, your biggest priority, after an 8-month long ultimate betrayal, is doing your ww. Reading your thread I have to conclude that for you nothing else matters. Tricky.


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

Is she receptive to romantic overtures?


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

You seem more upset over not getting laid than you do the affair:scratchhead:


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## Raymond290 (Jan 14, 2015)

dental said:


> Seriously wondering why the only thing on your mind, the only thing on your to do list, your biggest priority, after an 8-month long ultimate betrayal, is doing your ww. Reading your thread I have to conclude that for you nothing else matters. Tricky.


It may appear that way, but I'll be honest here.The #1 priority here for me is our children. I believe it will be very difficult for me to be involved in there lives in a way that is the most meaningful if we do not reside in the same household. My wife and I had a long talk about this today. The kids are obviously very important to the two of us, and we both are wondering what they're lives will be like if we were to divorce.


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## Raymond290 (Jan 14, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> Are you not feeling a connection to her at all?
> 
> Either way, like I said, if you want to reconcile, intimacy will have to resume.
> 
> Someone mentioned STDs earlier in the thread... have either of you been tested yet? If not, I wouldn't initiate sex w/o some condoms at the ready.


I feel a connection based on the fact that she is my wife and mother of my children. But it just isn't the same. No, neither one of us has been tested.I guess,your'e right about the intimacy part.I find myself wondering,how?When?How exactly should I initiate the sex...


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Raymond290 said:


> I feel a connection based on the fact that she is my wife and mother of my children. But it just isn't the same. No, neither one of us has been tested.I guess,your'e right about the intimacy part.I find myself wondering,how?When?How exactly should I initiate the sex...


Well, the STD talk probably needs to happen first; otherwise, the first time that you pull out a condom, it's going to completely wreck the vibe.

As for the rest, you mentioned that the two of you are still cuddling/hugging/kissing, right? If so, the next time that you find yourself sitting next to her, gently pull her in close and then slowly start going for it. If it's been 3 months, she's likely to respond pretty positively... possibly even a bit aggressively.

And if she doesn't... well, that's an answer too.


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## Raymond290 (Jan 14, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> As for the rest, you mentioned that the two of you are still cuddling/hugging/kissing, right? If so, the next time that you find yourself sitting next to her, gently pull her in close and then slowly start going for it. If it's been 3 months, she's likely to respond pretty positively... possibly even a bit aggressively.


Hmmm.Not sure where you heard that, I never said that...Just might take you up on your advice though. I was really tempted once again tonight to go for it, but didn't. Thanks for your help.


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

Raymond290 said:


> Hmmm.Not sure where you heard that, I never said that...Just might take you up on your advice though. I was really tempted once again tonight to go for it, but didn't. Thanks for your help.


If you don't then you may find yourself in the same shoes as Daniel in *My Wife, A Serial Cheater*.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Raymond290 said:


> Hmmm.Not sure where you heard that, I never said that...Just might take you up on your advice though. I was really tempted once again tonight to go for it, but didn't. Thanks for your help.


Sorry, I probably read that in another thread. After a while, they all start to sort of run together.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

dental said:


> Seriously wondering why the only thing on your mind, the only thing on your to do list, your biggest priority, after an 8-month long ultimate betrayal, is doing your ww. Reading your thread I have to conclude that for you nothing else matters. Tricky.





Jasel said:


> You seem more upset over not getting laid than you do the affair:scratchhead:


Respectfully, have either of you ever experienced infidelity for yourselves?

For a BH that has embraced the notion of reconciling w/ his WW, hysterical bonding is a very real thing... and it's driven by an absolutely primal need to reclaim his wife by F*CKING. HER. BRAINS. OUT.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Does your wife act as though she is scared to death you will leave her?

Does she have time for an affair? Is your sister in law helping you?

Did your wife beg you not to leave her?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

BTW, you do need to have sex with her to see how it affects you and her. If she refuses, you can bet the affair is still on and has been taken underground. There are thousands of ways to carry on and hide it. Secret email and text accounts. Cheap burner phones. Go to work late, pretend to go to work but take a vacation day or call in sick, meet at lunch, leave early. This has been seen here endlessly.

She got the seven year itch, don't be surprised if she gets it again. Its very strange she hasn't tried to jump your bones. You need to see if she can stomach you or still in love with the other man. There's no use wasting more time.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Chaparral said:


> BTW, you do need to have sex with her to see how it affects you and her. If she refuses, you can bet the affair is still on and has been taken underground. There are thousands of ways to carry on and hide it. Secret email and text accounts. Cheap burner phones. Go to work late, pretend to go to work but take a vacation day or call in sick, meet at lunch, leave early. This has been seen here endlessly.
> 
> She got the seven year itch, don't be surprised if she gets it again. Its very strange she hasn't tried to jump your bones. You need to see if she can stomach you or still in love with the other man. There's no use wasting more time.


Word.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> Respectfully, have either of you ever experienced infidelity for yourselves?
> 
> 
> 
> For a BH that has embraced the notion of reconciling w/ his WW, hysterical bonding is a very real thing... and it's driven by an absolutely primal need to reclaim his wife by F*CKING. HER. BRAINS. OUT.



And yet neither of them have come close to that in 3 months. It's a strong indication that she's still in the affair. And he's so detached emotionally I've been wondering if he's on the spectrum.


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## Raymond290 (Jan 14, 2015)

Chaparral said:


> Does your wife act as though she is scared to death you will leave her?
> 
> Does she have time for an affair? Is your sister in law helping you?
> 
> Did your wife beg you not to leave her?


1.I wouldn't use the words "scared to death of me leaving".I'd say more like "worried"that I'll leave. She has made it clear that she wants to stay in the marriage, ill say that.
2.I suppose so...Her schedule is the same as it's always been.Is she helping me?No....We don't talk much, and I honestly don't have much to say to her.
3.Would I use the word"beg"?Probably not. But she's apologized a thousand times, made it clear she does not want a divorce,but I do doubt if she is truly sorry about the affair but rather sorry about the fact that she was caught.


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## italianjob (May 7, 2014)

Raymond290 said:


> 1.I wouldn't use the words "scared to death of me leaving".I'd say more like "worried"that I'll leave. She has made it clear that she wants to stay in the marriage, ill say that.
> 2.I suppose so...Her schedule is the same as it's always been.Is she helping me?No....We don't talk much, and I honestly don't have much to say to her.
> 3.Would I use the word"beg"?Probably not. But she's apologized a thousand times, made it clear she does not want a divorce,but I do doubt if she is truly sorry about the affair but rather sorry about the fact that she was caught.


Apologizing in words doesn't mean a thing... She should be doing her best to make you feel better, including offering sex.

It's quite obvious she's not back in the marriage, probably because the affair isn't over at all, or maybe just because she's detached so much from you she doesn't really care anymore. 

You are not giving her any consequence or condition to continue with the marriage, so you are essentially rugsweeping the Whole thing, but I think you need to clarify first to yourself then to her what you really want:

- are you ok with what you have now (it sounds like some kind of co habitation Agreement not a marriage)?
- do you want a real R? in that case you need to talk a lot more and in deeper terms about what happened and she needs to do many more things like changing jobs for example.
- do you want to leave her? go see a lawyer.

and before any talk of sex, GET HER AND YOURSELF TESTED.

Oh, and I don't know if it's your style of reporting or what,but she sounds so entitled about having her affair that I doubt this is the first time she went about something like that and I would verify if your children are actually YOURS.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

What was the pattern of sex initiation when you dated? After you had children? Before the affair and during it.

Do you feel that the sexual chemistry you once had is dead?

Does she touch you much?

Do you want have angry dominant sex with her?

Why don't you ask her straight out whether she will trust you not to have an affair in the future. What makes her optimistic or hopeful about reconciliation? Does she believe your sex life could ever be enough for her?


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## Raymond290 (Jan 14, 2015)

LongWalk said:


> What was the pattern of sex initiation when you dated? After you had children? Before the affair and during it.
> 
> Do you feel that the sexual chemistry you once had is dead?
> 
> ...


 I would say she initiated sex fairly often when we dated. The sex definitely slowed considerably after we had children. She never initiated sex then. Actually before and during the affair she didn't initiate sex that much either. I almost always initiated.As far as touching, she'll give me a little pat on the arm and things of that nature before she leaves for work or what have you.


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## Raymond290 (Jan 14, 2015)

LongWalk said:


> Do you want have angry dominant sex with her?


Hmmmmmmmm...No.


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## PreRaphaelite (Dec 15, 2012)

OP: As others have pointed out, continuing to have sex with your wife is one of the worst things you could do. It shows that you have at the very least a sex-dependency. And worse, it's going to make it much harder for you both to confront the consequences of her betrayal and what it will take to fix your marriage. Unless, of course, sex is more important to you than anything else. 

Can't you simply masturbate FFS?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Specialist counselling, even at this late stage, may help.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Suspecting2014 (Jun 11, 2014)

Just ask her:

Ask if she finds you attractive to have sex with?
Ask her why she don't initiates?
Ask her if she misses OM?

Maybe her sex drive to you was something that made her have an affair in first place.

Maybe she thinks that you dont find her attractive any more, or tainted because what she has done.

Maybe she did stuff with Om that she did with you or is not willing to do it with you and dont want to say no so she avoid sex.

Maybe the emotional attachment to MOM is still strong.

Look above are a lot of maybes that you need to figure it out, as many others. Realize that sex is the glue that keep marriage together so you need to do something about it ASAP.

Also you need to look inside you and be honest about if you want and can be married to her after her affair. Ask your self if you'd be willing to stay married to her if there were no children.

Ask yourself why you find awkward to initiate or have sex with her?


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

I wouldn't ask her a god damned thing because frankly her answers are words that don't mean sh!t

Asking those questions imply that you could posably believe the answers.

I would say.....This is on you .Start making this right now 

Tick fvcking toc.

I would only ask myself this

Is this how I want out of the rest of my life to be like without her actions telling me what I need to know.

55


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Raymond290 said:


> 1.I wouldn't use the words "scared to death of me leaving".I'd say more like "worried"that I'll leave. She has made it clear that she wants to stay in the marriage, ill say that.
> 2.I suppose so...Her schedule is the same as it's always been.Is she helping me?No....We don't talk much, and I honestly don't have much to say to her.
> 3.Would I use the word"beg"?Probably not. But she's apologized a thousand times, made it clear she does not want a divorce,but I do doubt if she is truly sorry about the affair but rather sorry about the fact that she was caught.


Would you say that your wife is an especially prideful person?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

WorkingOnMe said:


> And yet neither of them have come close to that in 3 months. It's a strong indication that she's still in the affair.


Agreed.



WorkingOnMe said:


> And he's so detached emotionally I've been wondering if he's on the spectrum.


Hmm. Hadn't thought of that, but it makes sense.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

italianjob said:


> Apologizing in words doesn't mean a thing... She should be doing her best to make you feel better, including offering sex.
> 
> It's quite obvious she's not back in the marriage, probably because the affair isn't over at all, or maybe just because she's detached so much from you she doesn't really care anymore.
> 
> ...


Some good food for thought in ^here^, OP.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I think if you are trying to reconcile then you should have sex. A lot of it. Try to see if the bond can be rebuilt.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You should put a var in the car and in the house for when you are not there. See what and who she is talking to and what they are saying. It can be impossible to catch a cheater if they suspect you are onto them. Only twenty percent of cheaters are ever caught. If she is smart she can get away with it a long time.


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## KingwoodKev (Jan 15, 2015)

I haven't read through the entire thread yet, I will, but from early on I saw you're struggling with having sex with her after the affair. If you do that you validate to her that she can have her cake and eat it too.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

KingwoodKev said:


> I haven't read through the entire thread yet, I will, but from early on I saw you're struggling with having sex with her after the affair. If you do that you validate to her that she can have her cake and eat it too.


Not at all.

Look, the bottom line is that for an actual reconciliation to take place, sexual intimacy will. have. to. resume.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I too haven't read the whole thread but if she's not remorseful it's because on some level she thinks you deserve it. Any idea why she'd have that much resentment toward you? Not blaming you, trying to get a feel for the dynamic between the two of you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Locke.Stratos (Sep 27, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> I too haven't read the whole thread but if she's not remorseful it's because on some level she thinks you deserve it. Any idea why she'd have that much resentment toward you? Not blaming you, trying to get a feel for the dynamic between the two of you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It seems like you are blaming him.

Tons of reasons exist as to why someone woudn't feel remorse: a sense of entitlement, selfishness, narcissism, sociopathic tendencies, immaturity, the mythical affair fog or she just doesn't give a s***.

No reason to assume that she felt that he deserved it.


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## Locke.Stratos (Sep 27, 2014)

Raymond290 said:


> Maybe I didn't express those feelings in my posts here, but believe me there is.I feel like an idiot. And the fact that it went on for eight months.....Perhaps you feel that way because I contemplated having sex with her?


You wanting sex with her after finding she had a three month affair isn't out of the ordinary. It's quite common, with the reason being either a primal drive for the betrayed spouse to 'reclaim' their mate or some level of love, chemistry and attraction still between the couple, I didn't get these from your posts.

What I inferred was basically that you haven't had sex in three months and just wanted to get laid.

You shouldn't feel like an idiot. Spouses who have affairs are essentially, selfish, liars and manipulators. She wouldn't have done justice to herself as a cheater if she didn't deceive you. You were a trusting husband, you had no reason to doubt or even susepct because what she did to you and your marriage you could never do so don't feel like an idiot.

I wouldn't recommend sleeping with her, aside from the fact that she had unprotected sex wither her lover (STIs and STDs), it could also prove traumatic to you.

While you're being intimate with her you'll start to wonder about everything that she did with him. You'll think about how often and frequent she had sex with him, the positions, how large his p**** is, was she satisfied, is she satisfied with you, was he better, does she prefer him, did she let im c** inside her,etc. All of these and more will flood you at once and you'll realize then how deep her betrayal actually is.

I couldn't have sex with her after what she did or wouldn't even want her to touch me. Rather then try to have sex with someone who isn't interested and still hung up on her lover maybe think on whether this is the woman that you want to stay married to for the rest of your life.

She hasn't demonstrated true remorse and isn't committed to reparing the damage she has caused to your marriage. In time that will come to hurt as much as the affair itself, that she doesn't care enough to give her all in making amends and working on the marriage.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

Divorcing is not the end of the world for the kids. If you both commit to it it is possible to successfully co-parent as a divorced couple...although it takes sacrifice on both sides.

I divorced my ex over a decade ago when the kids were young. I moved to a house five minutes away in the same school district. The kids split their time between the two houses. Both my ex and I attended all their sporting events, school concerts etc. My oldest is now in his third year of university and my youngest is in her final year of high school with marks in the mid 90's, already accepted to three universities. Both are polite, well adjusted and never get into trouble. 

My point is don't use the kids as an excuse. If you choose to stay stay because you want to stay. Living a miserable life then turning around and blaming the kids for that is unfair.


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

MaritimeGuy said:


> Divorcing is not the end of the world for the kids. If you both commit to it it is possible to successfully co-parent as a divorced couple...although it takes sacrifice on both sides.
> 
> I divorced my ex over a decade ago when the kids were young. I moved to a house five minutes away in the same school district. The kids split their time between the two houses. Both my ex and I attended all their sporting events, school concerts etc. My oldest is now in his third year of university and my youngest is in her final year of high school with marks in the mid 90's, already accepted to three universities. Both are polite, well adjusted and never get into trouble.
> 
> My point is don't use the kids as an excuse. If you choose to stay stay because you want to stay. Living a miserable life then turning around and blaming the kids for that is unfair.



You nailed it pretty well. Almost all the BS coming here claim the same thing. if they didnt have the kids they may have Divorced blah blah blah.....

Its pure bull**** and make it looks like the kids stands between his self respect, dignity and pride.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Kallan Pavithran said:


> You nailed it pretty well. Almost all the BS coming here claim the same thing. if they didnt have the kids they may have Divorced blah blah blah.....
> 
> Its pure bull**** and make it looks like the kids stands between his self respect, dignity and pride.


Please don't insult others and spout off this line of BS like it is fact as it is solely your opinion. Several here can't and don't want to face the idea of less time with their children. It only looks like weakness to you and who are you to judge how they want to live their lives? Many have no desire to lose the time with their children because their WS has no morals. It is a hard thing to go from 100% time with the kids to 50% (or anything less than 100%). How is it really any better to lose most of your stuff and move down the street. You are still living close and seeing the ex lots so how does it make it better, as now you have your kids less as well?

If people want to stay solely for their kids nothing is wrong with this as for years they lived with someone else and stayed there solely for that person. Their choices don't make them any less than before (only in your eyes).


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## KingwoodKev (Jan 15, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> Not at all.
> 
> Look, the bottom line is that for an actual reconciliation to take place, sexual intimacy will. have. to. resume.


Not at this point, however. This woman has taken zero steps to redeem herself. First, she has to admit everything 100%. Second she has to admit what kind of person she is (a liar and a cheater with ZERO integrity as a human being). Third, she has to humble herself to the person she betrayed.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

KingwoodKev said:


> This woman has taken zero steps to redeem herself. First, she has to admit everything 100%.


I hate to tell old Raymond this but the reason she's treating this like a speeding ticket that slightly impacted the family budget is because she's lost interest in Raymond. (the same reason she stopped initiating sex and does not initiate it now, or at least when he fails to initiate sex, he's not getting an argument out of her.) 
As far as admitting everything 100%, according to him she already said, " I just wanted to try something fresh and different, it had nothing to do with you". What does she have to do, put it on a billboard? If Raymond cannot interpolate the importance she assigns to being loyal to him, he's the one wearing the clown suit someone mentioned earlier. 
Raymond, if I'z you I go ahead and have a go at it with her. You don't have anything to lose. Neither do you have much to gain with your self imposed moratorium. I assure you the other guy didn't do any damage, and besides, those thing are like Timex watches. They take a licking and keep on ticking.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Locke.Stratos said:


> It seems like you are blaming him.
> 
> Tons of reasons exist as to why someone woudn't feel remorse: a sense of entitlement, selfishness, narcissism, sociopathic tendencies, immaturity, the mythical affair fog or she just doesn't give a s***.
> 
> No reason to assume that she felt that he deserved it.



Wow. So I can't ask a question about the marital dynamic without blaming him? Sorry, I forgot that once there's cheating nothing else matters.

I realize it's the TAM way to trash cheating wives, but there is an entire marital dynamic that needs to be understood in order give helpful advice. 

Blanket statements about how the cheater must grovel with no other knowledge of the marriage is unhelpful, though it does seem to make bitter people feel better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Bottom line Raymond,

Of course you should have sex with her since you're attempting R. You're living in limbo otherwise. But, insist that she get an STD test first. Don't take no for an answer (the std test).

Sex with her will tell you a lot about how remorseful she is. And I have to tell you, it's not a good sign that she's not initiating. If she truly was remorseful, she'd be jumping through hoops to please you - Initiating, and really being in to the sex. 

This is the topic you asked about, so that's the advice given. But reading through the lines, I sense her A was rug swept to a large degree, and that she suffered minimal consequences. That's not good for you, and not good for her either.


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## KingwoodKev (Jan 15, 2015)

badmemory said:


> Bottom line Raymond,
> 
> Of course you should have sex with her since you're attempting R. You're living in limbo otherwise. But, insist that she get an STD test first. Don't take no for an answer (the std test).
> 
> ...


I totally agree. I posted above that she has taken zero steps toward redemption. Zero.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> *I too haven't read the whole thread but if she's not remorseful it's because on some level she thinks you deserve it.* Any idea why she'd have that much resentment toward you? Not blaming you, trying to get a feel for the dynamic between the two of you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


As a BS myself, and being against blaming the BS for the decision to cheat, I have to agree with this statement. I want to add that she will never and I mean never 100% believe you did not deserve it. 

The questions that I think are relevant are:

-Can you live with that?

-How can you make amends to her which will be enough to get her to believe it's worth attempting to trust again and commit, albeit never fully, to your marriage, while simultaneously keeping your self-worth intact?

-Would any BS truly be better off cheating, not so much as a retaliation, but as part of the acceptance that the marriage you had is truly over?

-Would that help you to retain self-respect or damage it? Edit: I mean, it could help you to know that you are worth something to other women. That would improve self-respect and get you to see that reconciliation is a choice not made lightly. Right now, she knows she has other choices. Do you really know that deep inside about yourself? Do you believe that? 

It can also damage your self-respect, if you have some deep aversion or belief. I don't suggest that with little thought or consideration for consequences. ee. 

-Would that free you to look at things in your marriage, prior to the initial infidelity from a different, more accepting perspective?

These are all questions that are really tough to answer and I am not personally comfortable asking them. I think they are important for you to ask yourself.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

Squeakr said:


> How is it really any better to lose most of your stuff and move down the street. You are still living close and seeing the ex lots so how does it make it better, as now you have your kids less as well?


It's better because you can move on with your life. Pretty hard to bring a woman home when you're estranged spouse is in the other room. If/when you re-settle with someone else the kids get to see first hand a healthy loving relationship...not one where there in constant ongoing tension lying just below the surface. 

Yes living just down the street means you still see the ex a lot. That's one of the sacrifices I'm talking about. Believe me I much rather would have moved 1,000,000 miles away so there was no chance of ever encountering her again. 

As for seeing the kids 50% versus 100% who spends 100% of their time with their kids? The kids spend their days at school while you're at work. You sleep nights. Surely you have activities that don't include the kids. When you're split and have the kids 50% you make that time count. I would suggest I spent more quality time with my kids after the split than before.

I'm not suggesting it's ideal...just that it's not the end of the world. Ideally kids will grow up in loving two parent home. So if the marriage can be repaired every effort should be put into doing so. However sometimes it simply can't be fixed.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

Raymond290 said:


> 1.I wouldn't use the words "scared to death of me leaving".I'd say more like "worried"that I'll leave. She has made it clear that she wants to stay in the marriage, ill say that.
> 2.I suppose so...Her schedule is the same as it's always been.Is she helping me?No....We don't talk much, and I honestly don't have much to say to her.
> 3.Would I use the word"beg"?Probably not. But *she's apologized a thousand times, made it clear she does not want a divorce,but I do doubt if she is truly sorry about the affair but rather sorry about the fact that she was caught.*


Raymond290,

Two observations:

1) What you said above, about her being sorry for getting caught rather than for the affair, does not bode well for the future of your marriage. Successful reconciliations are relatively uncommon and, when they occur, usually involve a WS who is deeply remorseful. If your _'doubt'_ is correct, then even if you do manage to stay together you will be more resentful than you would have been had she acted like she was truly sorry. As a result, you will have a harder time getting over what she did (and may, in fact, never get over it). Moreover, if she never gets to the point of being truly remorseful, there is a greater likelihood that she will cheat again, as the only lesson she will have learned is to be more careful next time.

2) If she is not genuinely remorseful, once you have sex with her -- and especially if you are the first to initiate sex -- you will surrender most of the moral advantage you hold. Rather than seeing it as an act of kindness and forgiveness on your part, she will mostly likely take it as an indication that you were not all that upset over her adultery and that it did not cause you all that much pain. As a result, she will put less effort into reconciliation, will mostly just expect you to _'get over it'_ and will be at a higher risk of cheating again.

Unfortunately, we live in an age that seems not to understand the power of _eros_ -- for both good and ill. Sex is not just a physiological function, it is a highly symbolic act with the potential to have a major effect on the psyches of the sexual partners and on their relationship.

I understand that you're horny but, if you want to fix your marriage, you will do yourself a big favor by finding another way to scratch the itch, and to delay having sex with her until she demonstrates a genuine desire for you.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

But she may be intimidated by the situation and waiting for him to initiate. She may be afraid he would be insulted if she put he moves on him. This has gone on three months now and the main problem could be fear and inertia on both sides.

I think he needs to initiate to see her reaction. The important thing isn't who starts it but how its received and participated in. If she denies or isn't enthusiastic,.it tells him everything he needs to know.


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## Locke.Stratos (Sep 27, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> Wow. So I can't ask a question about the marital dynamic without blaming him? Sorry, I forgot that once there's cheating nothing else matters.
> 
> I realize it's the TAM way to trash cheating wives, but there is an entire marital dynamic that needs to be understood in order give helpful advice.
> 
> Blanket statements about how the cheater must grovel with no other knowledge of the marriage is unhelpful, though it does seem to make bitter people feel better.


I can't say I've read enough posts to have reached that conclusion about the TaM way but I have found the advice here on infidelity both invaluable, insightful and helpful.

Yes cheaters are admonished here, no surprise there. Behaviour that tends to cause hurt, pain and suffering normally is the world over, not just on TaM.

Many unfaithful spouses here also receive advice, compassion and encouragement. Haven't encountered threads advocating that the cheater grovel but remorse, consequences and atonement come to mind and these aren't exclusive to infidelity.

The posts on TaM:CwI tend to be geared towards the betrayed: These include advice on how to investigate, confront, expose, expectations, information, personal opinions, denial, insight, remonstration, experience, sharing, divorce, reconciliation, etcetera.

I cannot think of a scenario (other than maybe??? severe abuse, murder or past infidelity) concerning resentment whereby one holds enough of it that they feel it affords them the latitude to carry on with an eight month affair or even casual sex. In that scenario to me, the relationship is better ended.

I also can’t relate or leap to the assumption, with little information, that a person in a terrible situation asking for advice is somehow indirectly responsible or to blame for their dilemma because they've manage to cause someone else to feel a high level of resentment towards them.

I thought it’d be helpful to point to other reasons why someone wouldn’t feel guilt. It wasn’t intended as a personal attack or a reason to trash TaM posters and label people as bitter.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Locke.Stratos said:


> I can't say I've read enough posts to have reached that conclusion about the TaM way but I have found the advice here on infidelity both invaluable, insightful and helpful.
> 
> Yes cheaters are admonished here, no surprise there. Behaviour that tends to cause hurt, pain and suffering normally is the world over, not just on TaM.
> 
> ...


Locke watch this movie
Home | Divorce Corp
You can find free links if you want it is very disturbing for the male mostly in this one.
Another site
A Voice for Men â€“ Humanist Counter-Theory in the Age of Misandry
It's going on in the UK, SA, AU, and the USA.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

Title implies he's got some tail available to him. Hope not.


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## Raymond290 (Jan 14, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> Not at all.
> 
> Look, the bottom line is that for an actual reconciliation to take place, sexual intimacy will. have. to. resume.


Well guys.............It happened. It just happened. We had sex.It felt a little weird but it was great at the same time. I have to admit I feel a bit like a wimp. I was always concerned about what my state of mind would be after the sex,and to tell the truth I can't really describe it.The sex only lasted about 35 seconds, and she looked at me with a bit of a funny look when I said that was about to finish.Right now I'm feeling a lot of mixed emotions.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Raymond290 said:


> Well guys.............It happened. It just happened. We had sex.It felt a little weird but it was great at the same time. I have to admit I feel a bit like a wimp. I was always concerned about what my state of mind would be after the sex,and to tell the truth I can't really describe it.The sex only lasted about 35 seconds, and she looked at me with a bit of a funny look when I said that was about to finish.Right now I'm feeling a lot of mixed emotions.


Which of you initiated? Did her participation indicate hesitation or enthusiasm?

The brief duration is obviously to be expected given that you've gone roughly 3 months w/o sex, and the confusion is natural given the circumstances under which the sex occurred. Get a good night's sleep, and try not to overthink things for now. 

And don't be surprised if your wife tries to jump your bones in the middle of the night!

ETA: Hopefully the two of you will be talking tomorrow, as both of you need to understand that the fact that you're having sex again doesn't mean that everything is back to being "normal", "OK", or whatever. If anything, things are only going to get more complicated from here on out, _but at least *you're moving forward*_.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

Sounds like you jacked 0ff inside her. Great way to punish her.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Raymond290 said:


> Well guys.............It happened. It just happened. We had sex.It felt a little weird but it was great at the same time. I have to admit I feel a bit like a wimp. I was always concerned about what my state of mind would be after the sex,and to tell the truth I can't really describe it.The sex only lasted about 35 seconds, and she looked at me with a bit of a funny look when I said that was about to finish.Right now I'm feeling a lot of mixed emotions.


Raymond next time get a hotel and take her.
Make it last minute.
Just my opinion.
Talk less screw more.


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## Raymond290 (Jan 14, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> Which of you initiated? Did her participation indicate hesitation or enthusiasm?


I wouldn't say her participation indicated either. She got in the bed and started reading a book. She was wearing her nightgown,I couldn't resist. She just sort of went along with it.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Raymond290 said:


> I wouldn't say her participation indicated either. She got in the bed and started reading a book. She was wearing her nightgown,I couldn't resist. She just sort of went along with it.


It's a start
Keep it up so to speak.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

tom67 said:


> It's a start
> Keep it up so to speak.


And keep'em coming, so to speak.


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## dental (Apr 16, 2014)

35 seconds isn't sex. It's awkward.


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## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

OP,

You are appearing weak to your cheating wife. 1. It's inflating her ego: she bangs another guy and you still want her. She must think she's something. 2. If your pursuing her, she must be the only game in town for you.

You need to turn this around, pal. Why are you wanting to reconcile with this cheater? Why is her infidelity acceptable to you? Is keeping her around for the odd chance she will give you a scrap of her used sexuality worth your self respect?

This isn't looking good.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

helolover said:


> OP,
> 
> You are appearing weak to your cheating wife. 1. It's inflating her ego: she bangs another guy and you still want her. She must think she's something. 2. If your pursuing her, she must be the only game in town for you.
> 
> ...



Look the fact is he's trying to reconcile. And to do that they're going to have to be sexual and affectionate. I say keep at it. Reclaim your wife. If after a while it's still awkward then you'll have your answer.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

helolover said:


> OP,
> 
> You are appearing weak to your cheating wife. 1. It's inflating her ego: she bangs another guy and you still want her. She must think she's something. 2. If your pursuing her, she must be the only game in town for you.
> 
> ...





WorkingOnMe said:


> *Look the fact is he's trying to reconcile.* And to do that they're going to have to be sexual and affectionate. I say keep at it. Reclaim your wife. If after a while it's still awkward then you'll have your answer.


Exactly. Accept that OP is attempting to reconcile and at least _attempt_ to advise him toward that end goal.

Granted, it's not a path that many BH's would choose, but, given that kids are in the picture, it's at least understandable that he'd want to try... right?


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Look the fact is he's trying to reconcile. And to do that they're going to have to be sexual and affectionate. I say keep at it. Reclaim your wife. If after a while it's still awkward then you'll have your answer.


Married couples have to provide certain things for each other. It the natural order. Sex in one of those things. Although Raymond appears a little inept in the love making department, he fell off the horse, now he has to get back on. My recommendation is that, once he recovered enough from his 35 second ride, to climb back on for another round. I'd feel good if he comes back and said he screwed her brains out last night. His attitude at this point needs to be, "you didn't tell that other bastard no. I better not be hearing a hell of a lot of nos"
I don't see a lot of upside in him doing without just to prove something to her. If he wants to give his woman another chance, it ought to be, "you're going to be my wife (all guys know this is "manese" meaning you're going to give it up to me on a regular basis) and you're be loyal and put me first from now on. If either fails, its f-ing over, I'll be gone and you can do what you want.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Raymond290 said:


> Well guys.............It happened. It just happened. We had sex.It felt a little weird but it was great at the same time. I have to admit I feel a bit like a wimp. I was always concerned about what my state of mind would be after the sex,and to tell the truth I can't really describe it.The sex only lasted about 35 seconds, and she looked at me with a bit of a funny look when I said that was about to finish.Right now I'm feeling a lot of mixed emotions.


I assume you didn't bother to go for STD testing nor make your wife do the same? So she had a funny look on her face when you were only able to last for 35 seconds. Was it disgust, pity, amusement, or some other emotion? Did you tend to her needs after you were done?

I think you managed this situation poorly IMHO. You never insisted on the STD tests and you don't appear to be communicating with her about how this entire situation affected you. It appears like you have let this fester and then you just "took her" after 3 months of nothing. The only thing I can see that came out of this so far is you finally had sex wtih a woman.

Were you normally the type to go quick - maybe under 5 minutes? If so, was she fine with that before the affair and now not so cool with it? I'm trying to figure this sex angle out here, so apologies if my questions are too blunt.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

Sadly when it comes to sexually attracting back a cheating wife, only 2 sure fire ways exist. Leave her or get involved with another woman. Neither are good for R.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Dogbert said:


> Sadly when it comes to sexually attracting back a cheating wife, only 2 sure fire ways exist. Leave her or get involved with another woman. Neither are good for R.


There is a 3rd way as well. That involves you removing all power and influence that she has over you, i.e. the 180. However, the 180 is not meant as a primary means to attract a cheating spouse. It's supposed to be a way for you to rebuild your sense of self worth and ego. The attraction part is a side effect.

However, I think a lot of it depends upon the nature of the affair. I think some spouses will cheat because they perceive a lack of attention from their mate. When they seek it from someone else, they are using that AP as a substitute for what they really want. In those types of examples, I can see the WS not lacking in attraction to their BS - just not getting attention according to their POV. 

I would also say that those who are very good at compartmentalization probably never lost attraction to their BS either. They just wanted to sample different people.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

Or you can impersonate the OM and get her wet enough to rip off your clothes. THAT would suck royal @$$ big time.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> Exactly. Accept that OP is attempting to reconcile and at least _attempt_ to advise him toward that end goal.
> 
> Granted, it's not a path that many BH's would choose, but, given that kids are in the picture, it's at least understandable that he'd want to try... right?


One thing pretty much certain is, he'll find women he dates will be the same way. He'll be getting leftovers. The difference is, they will want to be with him. They will have chosen him from a number of other potential suitors.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

2ntnuf said:


> One thing pretty much certain is, he'll find women he dates will be the same way. He'll be getting leftovers. The difference is, they will want to be with him. They will have chosen him from a number of other potential suitors.


Yeah. Here HE is the leftover.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

You guys do realize, you are telling him to date his wife, don't you? Yeah, he needs to do that in a marriage, to keep the fires burning, but does he acknowledge that he is one of many, in fact, he is one of definitely two who she is using, like dating, to see who will please her. Now, I know this is normal when dating, but is it normal in a bad marriage? I guess women are emotional creatures only? I thought they were logical with emotions. 

If the latter, don't you think she has got to be playing him on some level? Don't you think she is doing what she did when they first met years ago? What did he do then? Did he commit right away to this one and only woman? Think about it. Separate this from any children and their care. Those children must be cared for no matter. Just be a good parent to children without a mother(in your head they have no mother). 

Start dating your wife like you would have dated any other woman before you got married. If that's what you want. The marriage is over in her mind. Many women here have said that before there is sex, a woman detaches from her husband and has decided their marriage is no longer a factor. They are dating, once again. 

I don't see how thinking and living this way would hurt. Read up on the 180 and do at least some of that. You are essentially single and dating a woman with children and baggage. Treat her as such, but with respect, not love.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

R should always be conditional. BS should tell WS that marriage is on probation until further notice.


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## Raymond290 (Jan 14, 2015)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Were you normally the type to go quick - maybe under 5 minutes? If so, was she fine with that before the affair and now not so cool with it? I'm trying to figure this sex angle out here, so apologies if my questions are too blunt.


Well yes.Sex between us normally lasted 30 seconds to two mintues.She never expressed any displeasure regarding that,however.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

She did express displeasure, she had an affair.


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## Raymond290 (Jan 14, 2015)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I assume you didn't bother to go for STD testing nor make your wife do the same? So she had a funny look on her face when you were only able to last for 35 seconds. Was it disgust, pity, amusement, or some other emotion? Did you tend to her needs after you were done?
> 
> I think you managed this situation poorly IMHO. You never insisted on the STD tests and you don't appear to be communicating with her about how this entire situation affected you.


I'd say the expression on her face was a mix of confusion, perhaps a little disappointment/being annoyed.As far as tending to her needs after the act, well no...I kind of just got up, went the bathroom,got back in bed and went to sleep.She is fully aware of my shock and disappointment about the affair. We've had some pretty lengthy discussions about her betrayal....Are you implying she has lost some respect for me due my not insisting that we go in for STD testing?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Raymond290 said:


> Well yes.Sex between us normally lasted 30 seconds to two mintues.






Raymond290 said:


> She never expressed any displeasure regarding that,however.





Catherine602 said:


> She did express displeasure, she had an affair.


Ouch. Geez.

Though OP's WW was likely feeling unfulfilled w/ the sexual aspect of their marriage, engaging in an affair was _obviously_ the wrong way for her to express it.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Raymond290 said:


> I'd say the expression on her face was a mix of confusion, perhaps a little disappointment/being annoyed.


I can understand her disappointment. You didn't give her your full two minutes worth.


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## Locke.Stratos (Sep 27, 2014)

Raymond290 said:


> Well yes.Sex between us normally lasted 30 seconds to two mintues.She never expressed any displeasure regarding that,however.


Is there any chance you could start a thread in another section, maybe Sex In Marriage?

I don't want to remove focus from her affair on this forum but thirty seconds to two minutes.

She may not have expressed any displeasure but has she expressed any pleasure?

If reconciliation is the path that you are choosing then you have to build a strong connection with your wife, both emotionally and physically (sexually).

Not a good idea foregoing the STD test by the way.


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

Raymond, why didn't your wife try to initiate sex with you during the last 3 months? Was it fear of rejection from you, shame, mind movies that might be triggered in her mind? If you don't know then you have to ask her.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

GusPolinski said:


> Ouch. Geez.
> Though OP's WW was likely feeling unfulfilled w/ the sexual aspect of their marriage, engaging in an affair was _obviously_ the wrong way for her to express it.


I didn't mean to imply that sexual dissatisfaction is permission to cheat. If that were the case, all of the men and women married to spouses that starve them should cheat. Noooo

Raymond you said that you have sex for less than a minute like it is no problem. Sex is your way of reconnecting and part of R. It's not going to work if the sex is not meaningful and mutually satisfying. 

The fact that she is not initiating sex is a red flag, to me. Have you verified that she is not still cheating? Does she really want to R or is she staying out of inertia and convenience?


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

2ntnuf said:


> One thing pretty much certain is, he'll find women he dates will be the same way. He'll be getting leftovers. The difference is, they will want to be with him. They will have chosen him from a number of other potential suitors.


Not if he is competing with men who know how to have mutually satisfying sex. Women may choose him but he may be plan C, and repeat his current marital situation.

His 180 must include becoming more attractive to women for his sense of confidence. If they D, he will need to be a good lover anyway to attract high quality women who want to be with all of him. 

I feel uncomfortable exploring his sexual problems when he is the BS. But it has to be discussed because sex is important for R and for single life, if it comes to that.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> Not if he is competing with men who know how to have mutually satisfying sex. Women may choose him but he may be plan C, and repeat his current marital situation.
> 
> His 180 must include becoming more attractive to women for his sense of confidence. If they D, he will need to be a good lover anyway to attract high quality women who want to be with all of him.
> 
> I feel uncomfortable exploring his sexual problems when he is the BS. But it has to be discussed because sex is important for R and for single life, if it comes to that.


I want to say we agree, but I'm not sure we do. 

Whether he is a,b,or c, he is still chosen from a number of men...maybe you mean he is b with his wife now? I don't think anyone knows that except his wife? :scratchhead:

Well, yes, I think a 180 will help to make him more attractive. 

As far as the rest, about him being a better lover, is he sure it took all of 2 minutes for his best time? I mean, he has to be pretty depressed right now. That's actually part of why I thought he needed to do the 180 and go out on dates. It was a multi-purpose approach, and, as many have posted, sometimes it takes dating and having sex to learn. Although, a book would help immensely, or even a website, articles, etc. 

I just wonder if there is some other reason for his pe? It could be physical, but I think mostly, they are a product of something going on in one's head. I think, anyway. I remember having that problem when I was young, although, I think it was a bit more than 2 minutes. I think I just got too excited and it felt too good, but it's been so many years, I'm not really sure. It's pretty frustrating and embarrassing. I feel badly for him.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

2ntnuf I thought he said that sex was 2 min or less throughout the marriage. I can understand why it was so short given that they were not having regular sex before this episode. Things should get better as they have regular sex. 

Raymond, if you are not having frequent sex, the R is false, IMO.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

helolover said:


> OP,
> 
> You are appearing weak to your cheating wife. 1. It's inflating her ego: she bangs another guy and you still want her. She must think she's something. 2. If your pursuing her, she must be the only game in town for you.
> 
> ...


You're giving advice to divorce when the OP says he wants to reconcile. Taking his wife is not cowtowing to her,just the opposite. He is reclaiming his marriage and wife. It may or may not work. He needs advice on how to do this, not throw him under the bus.

Its particularly irritating to have posters ran off on a pro marriage, coping with infidelity site. Many have been permanently banned for dogging posters attempting to reconcile.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Here are some things to read. Who knows? Maybe they will help. I won't post something I think will hurt. 

Premature Ejaculation Treatments and Causes

Looks like they think it is from depression and anxiety. You may have to look into your past if you cannot deal with this in other ways. Also, I would like to suggest, and I know some will laugh, that you attempt to do something similar to a kegel exercise. Men can do something like them. Also, there is a thread here somewhere on this topic. I remember reading about a guy who had trouble and seemed to overcome it. You can do a search on that yourself. 

Urology Care Foundation - Urology A-Z - Premature Ejaculation (PE)

You know what else? Are you counting the time it took you to build up to sex with your wife along with the time you actually started to have intercourse? Seems like you sort of forced yourself on her. That's not good. She has to be ready or you can hurt her, no matter how big you are. 

See, this would be extremely difficult to do. You would have to really desire her and want to please her and be with her. If you do, take your time and caress, kiss, hug, look at her and tell her you desire her with nice words. Sexy or dirty words are not appropriate, in my opinion, until she trusts you more. 

Like I said, you have to date her like you never really met her before. That's tough as hell to do when you don't feel like you can trust her to start with. Which is another reason I said you may need to date other women. It will allow you to see your wife in a different light. You won't feel so much pain when you look in her eyes. It's a hell of a thing, me telling you to date others while you are married. I can only justify it in my mind with the fact that she pretty much, has given up and is just there till things develop outside the marriage or there is some huge change in the dynamics of your marriage, a change that lasts longer than a week or a month. 

Scene - AskMen

Although that article reads like it was written for singles, I think it's pretty much all the same. I didn't mean to give you something for singles. I just think it's a pretty decent article. 

I am not a counselor or a doctor. I would suggest you see your GP and talk. Yes, talk to him/her. He may send you to a urologist. He may send you to a psychologist. I think you should start there. Still, I don't think reading an article would hurt. It may even give you some questions to ask your doctor.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> 2ntnuf I thought he said that sex was 2 min or less throughout the marriage. I can understand why it was so short given that they were not having regular sex before this episode. Things should get better as they have regular sex.
> 
> Raymond, if you are not having frequent sex, the R is false, IMO.


I think a psychologist is in order. Check my last post. Also, I agree about the false R. Usually, there is hysterical bonding. I really really do wish him luck and a good recovery, whether they reconcile or not.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

There isn't anything unusual about someone being that quick under the circumstances. People that have been celibate for awhile literally release during sleep. If this wasn't what you normally did before don't worry about it. Just make sure you return the favor manually or orally. Its time now for hysterical bonding. Go at it like rabbits and see where that leads. Just make sure you are both satisfied. Do not be selfish. Besides the quicker you go the first time, you should have been ready for seconds that much quicker.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Ray, you need to figure out why she cheated on you. Someone mentioned an opinion that you may be on the spectrum. I conclude the same tbh. It's quite possible that your wife grew frustrated with you and cheated. I'm sorry to say it, but your sexual prowess may be the catalyst for the affair too. Not trying to excuse your wife from having an affair, but you need to figure out why. Reading between the lines, she told you that she wanted better sex. 

You received the "it's not you, it's me speech". She's lying to you. She should have communicated to you her concerns, frustrations and concerns early on. Instead, she ran away and cheated.

Whether you R successfully or divorce, you need to up your game when it comes go lovemaking. You'll need to for the next woman in your life. No offense.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Chaparral said:


> There isn't anything unusual about someone being that quick under the circumstances. People that have been celibate for awhile literally release during sleep. If this wasn't what you normally did before don't worry about it. Just make sure you return the favor manually or orally. Its time now for hysterical bonding. Go at it like rabbits and see where that leads. Just make sure you are both satisfied. Do not be selfish. Besides the quicker you go the first time, you should have been ready for seconds that much quicker.


Ray stated prior to the affair that 30 sec to 2 min was a typical duration for intercourse. No clue on foreplay or if he tended her needs after his were met. Pretty sure my hunch is correct though.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Chaparral said:


> There isn't anything unusual about someone being that quick under the circumstances. People that have been celibate for awhile literally release during sleep. If this wasn't what you normally did before don't worry about it. Just make sure you return the favor manually or orally. Its time now for hysterical bonding. Go at it like rabbits and see where that leads. Just make sure you are both satisfied. Do not be selfish. Besides the quicker you go the first time, you should have been ready for seconds that much quicker.


I didn't know he was celibate for a long time. A quick one is normal. Did C602 tell me a story? I thought I read his post that said he was like that throughout his marriage? 

Anyway, it wouldn't surprise me if he is depressed. And, you know those anti-depressants will lower sensitivity and libido a little? Might not be such a bad idea to get him through this part. 

Usually, going at it like rabbits just sort of comes and it seems like they can't keep their hands off each other. It's not really something planned, so much as a normal desire to screw as often as possible to get those bonding chemicals and dopamine highs back. It sort of comes naturally. She will want him when she feels safe and secure with him. If she is having issues with him, she could feel like he is forcing himself on her. She could easily just do it without saying a word and feel sick about it after. So, I gotta say, make sure you are reading her right. Ask, if you aren't sure.


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## Raymond290 (Jan 14, 2015)

A question I have is, is it at all common for a sexually unsatisfied wife who has had an affair to express to her husband that the bad sex was her reason for cheating? Is it common for women who are married to premature ejaculators to not express their feelings towards their husband and simply cheat with other men? Could it be that I,as the bread winner in our household believed that because I was bringing home the bacon that I subconsciously felt no obligation to satisfy her sexually?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Raymond290 said:


> A question I have is, it at all common for a sexually unsatisfied wife who has had an affair to express to her husband that the bad sex was her reason for cheating?


Is it common? That's probably hard to say, but is it possible? I'd think so, yes.



Raymond290 said:


> Is it common for women who are married to premature ejaculators to not express their feelings towards their husband...


It's probably somewhat common, yes. After all, it could be that she just figured that there was no point in wounding your ego if she could just get more fulfilling sex -- w/o any emotional attachment -- outside of your marriage.



Raymond290 said:


> ...and simply cheat with other men?


Hmm... not sure. Probably depends on how easy it would be for a given woman to justify (and then adopt) the mindset that I've described above.



Raymond290 said:


> Could it be that I,as the bread winner in our household believed that because I was bringing home the bacon that I subconsciously felt no obligation to satisfy her sexually?


Uhhh... it is possible that you felt that way? Obviously you're going to have to answer that question for yourself.

But either way, it's an awfully dangerous attitude to take. And, since it sounds like she cheated for the sex (assuming, of course, that she was being truthful w/ the "I just wanted to try something new and different" line), unless you address it, you can probably look forward to finding her in yet another affair at some point in the future.

And that's assuming that she never stopped the affair that you know about... and that there haven't been (or _aren't_) others.

Have you talked to a doctor about your issues w/ PE? Have you ever looked into other ways to satisfy your wife sexually? Oral? Toys? Do you engage in any foreplay at all?

Allow me to be a bit more blunt... when was the last time that you witnessed your wife orgasm as a direct result of your efforts?

Sex is the water that keeps the grass green in any good relationship, and you can't expect that a wife whose husband refuses to put anything other than quick sprinkle out onto the lawn to appreciate how nice the grass looks when it's brown, dead, and dry instead of green and lush.

And I'm just curious... where are you and your wife from? Feel free to be as generic as you like.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Raymond290 said:


> A question I have is, it at all common for a sexually unsatisfied wife who has had an affair to express to her husband that the bad sex was her reason for cheating?


This is a question for women, imo. I would say, it depends on the woman and her anger or resentment. I suppose she could really be trying to help and want you to know what was wrong so you can work on yourself, too. 

Try to believe what I am about to say. She chose to cheat. You did not force her. She could have chosen to do other things like counseling, divorce, and a few others. Here's the other thing. WS don't usually like to be honest. They are in denial about their own issues. That stuff has nothing to do with you. Even the pe reads like you have things going on that are not your fault. They are just things you have to work on. So, please don't blame yourself. Just do the best you can each day. Someday, you will feel better. You are a man despite what you or she make(may  ) think. Although no one can know what you are going through or have exactly the same experiences, you aren't the first to go through this and you won't be the last. 

Hang in there. Let it go for a while and just find something to hold onto and rest. Just rest for a little while. Nothing happens immediately. Even when things seem to have happened in an instant, they didn't. There was at least some planning involved. 



Raymond290 said:


> Is it common for women who are married to premature ejaculators to not express their feelings towards their husband and simply cheat with other men?


oops. sorry for all the mistakes

Another question for women, imo. I don't think it's common for someone who loves another to hide feelings. I think they express things in a way that suits and protects their needs at that time. I think the more unsure they are about how the message will be received, the more mysterious the information coming forth. I think that's pretty normal. 

Again, don't beat yourself up for not hearing what she was saying. She has her own reasons for not making things clear enough for you to interpret. She likely made things clear enough in the past, so she knows how. Something was going on with her emotions or she was thinking something might cause you pain. 



Raymond290 said:


> Could it be that I,as the bread winner in our household believed that because I was bringing home the bacon that I subconsciously felt no obligation to satisfy her sexually?


It would be more likely that you have some issue with desire in general, for anyone, for some odd reason you need to look into, and talk to a doctor about to work on and fix, than just that you worked for money and she worked for the household. Without her, things would have shut down quick. You can't put a price on taking care of all the things most homemakers do in a day. They are invaluable. 

Listen, you need to set up an appointment with a psychologist. I think it would help you so much, you'd be answering these questions yourself, or at least be on the way to answers shortly. That's where you need to start. You need to see your GP and talk. Do you have insurance? If so, make the appointment. It doesn't say anything about your sanity. It says you know when you need someone to listen and just help guide you back to happiness again. Please check into it. Won't you?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Revising this a bit in the interest of fairness...



GusPolinski said:


> Sex is the water that keeps the grass green in any good relationship, and you can't expect that *anyone whose spouse* refuses to put anything other than quick sprinkle out onto the lawn to appreciate how nice the grass looks when it's brown, dead, and dry instead of green and lush.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

2ntnuf said:


> ...you worked for money and she worked for the household. Without her, things would have shut down quick. *You can't put a price on taking care of all the things most homemakers do in a day. They are invaluable.*


While I agree, in the interest of clarity, it sounds like OP's wife was (and maybe still is) working as well.


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## Raymond290 (Jan 14, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> But either way, it's an awfully dangerous attitude to take. And,
> Have you talked to a doctor about your issues w/ PE? Have you ever looked into other ways to satisfy your wife sexually? Oral? Toys? Do you engage in any foreplay at all?
> 
> Allow me to be a bit more blunt... when was the last time that you witnessed your wife orgasm as a direct result of your efforts?


I believe the last time she orgasmd was maybe 3 years ago.To be truthful, I can probably count on one hand the times,I know for sure she orgasmed,the full 8 years we've been together,dating and married combined.........I'd say we engage in a minimal amount of foreplay.Toys,never.I give her oral on occasion.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> While I agree, in the interest of clarity, it sounds like OP's wife was (and maybe still is) working as well.


Sorry Raymond.


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## Raymond290 (Jan 14, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> And I'm just curious... where are you and your wife from? Feel free to be as generic as you like.


Thanks for asking. We are from the suburbs of new jersey.Im 29,and she's 28.Married for 7 years, together for 8.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Ray, if you aren't a troll (which I'm not sure either way tbh), were you ever diagnosed with Aspergers or high functioning Autism?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Raymond290 said:


> I believe the last time she orgasmd was maybe 3 years ago.To be truthful, I can probably count on one hand the times,I know for sure she orgasmed,the full 8 years we've been together,dating and married combined.........I'd say we engage in a minimal amount of foreplay.Toys,never.I give her oral on occasion.


OK. Let me just say this...

If your wife had come to TAM prior to beginning her affair, and then proceeded to detail her very deep level of sexual unfulfillment w/ her husband of several years... a husband for whom she'd borne two children... a husband who -- throughout the _entirety_ of their relationship -- had shown a stunning lack of consideration w/ respect to satisfying her sexually, there would have been a crushing chorus of both men and women urging her to...

(a) communicate her dissatisfaction w/ her husband, 
(b) urge him to attend marriage counseling and/or sex therapy w/ her, and 
(c) in the event that the overtures described in items a and b above had failed, *divorce*.

Unfortunately, she went straight for option d, and began an affair.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Ray, if you aren't a troll (which I'm not sure either way tbh), were you ever diagnosed with Aspergers or high functioning Autism?


Excellent insight. I'd intended to ask this earlier (and others have suggested it as well), but forgot to do so.


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## Raymond290 (Jan 14, 2015)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Ray, if you aren't a troll (which I'm not sure either way tbh), were you ever diagnosed with Aspergers or high functioning Autism?


Hmm?No.I've never been diagnosed with anything of the sort.May I ask what lead to believe that may have been the case?


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Raymond290 said:


> A question I have is, is it at all common for a sexually unsatisfied wife who has had an affair to express to her husband that the bad sex was her reason for cheating? Is it common for women who are married to premature ejaculators to not express their feelings towards their husband and simply cheat with other men? Could it be that I,as the bread winner in our household believed that because I was bringing home the bacon that I subconsciously felt no obligation to satisfy her sexually?


What you are saying is that you are willing to accept a passionless, loveless and distant relationship in exchange for providing. That's aiming so low. Don't you think that you are worth a passionate and loving relationship and not just tolerance?

It's time to change your understanding of relationships and sex. The cheating was humiliating and disrespectful - there is no getting around that. Yet, I get from your posts that your respect for yourself is too low. It seems you are willing to accept a lukewarm R and no atoning. She has gotten away with cheating and she will surely do it again. 

You need to change yourself, not for her but for you.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Raymond290 said:


> Hmm?No.I've never been diagnosed with anything of the sort.May I ask what lead to believe that may have been the case?


IDK, it appears that you have a difficult time reading people and having enough emotional intelligence to deal with marriage or dating.

Maybe you're being intentionally vague for whatever reason, or perhaps you're spinning a story with fairly vague details in order for us posters to tell the tale for you. Or maybe you're not aware of how you come across to others.

If this is a legit situation, I'm not trying to scare you off. You don't come across as someone who is very broken up over what happened to you and are more concerned with a place to stick your pecker into besides your hand. Sorry to be blunt, but geez are you sure you have a pulse?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Raymond290 said:


> A question I have is, is it at all common for a sexually unsatisfied wife who has had an affair to express to her husband that the bad sex was her reason for cheating? Is it common for women who are married to premature ejaculators to not express their feelings towards their husband and simply cheat with other men? Could it be that I,as the bread winner in our household believed that because I was bringing home the bacon that I subconsciously felt no obligation to satisfy her sexually?


I'm pretty sure I read 2-3 minutes are average.

In any event if you feel like you want to go longer try Viagra. Before Viagra, porn stars were hard to find so a scene would last a decent amount of time. There was a lot of using the same footage over and over in a scene. Now since Viagra, an older porn star complained that anyone could be a porn star.

The main point is to leave your wife satisfied, that's rarely done with just a penis.


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## ToothFairy (May 19, 2013)

If you are truly as clueless about your wife and her level of satisfaction, and as selfish about getting your rocks off as you sound here.. I can't say that I am at all surprised she strayed. Just sayin.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Guys, I'm calling it a night. I'm not sure what to make of this situation since Ray doesn't really want to give anymore insight than the absolute bare minimum. 

I got a date this morning with the wife for 30 - 40 minutes of passion - which IMHO is normal for a sexual relationship that would be composed of 5 - 15 minutes of foreplay, maybe oral but much more likely to be PIV with one or more positions (2 or 3 perhaps?) for about 10 - 20 minutes followed by any follow up attention for her if she doesn't get her rocks off enough with the PIV sex. Who knows, we may have PIA in lieu of PIV.

Just in case the OP has one of the spectrum disorders, this is what I mean by a fulfilling sexual encounter. Not saying I'm the world's best lover, but if your wife was getting at least 20 minutes of attention from her OM that included foreplay then Oral, PIV, PIA and/or HJ sex in any combination then she will no longer be interested in the 30 sec to 2 min of sex with you where you give little to no foreplay and no effort to sexually satisfy except on rare occasions. 

I know this sounds harsh. You may think that I'm being a total d!ck. But what I'm trying to do is to smack you with a 2X4 in the hope that you wake up. I have a son that has Aspergers/high functioning autism. I'm proud to say that thru hard work he has more awareness than this.

PS, I'm not joking about our sex date when we wake up this morning. It's a part of the dynamic you need to develop with your wife (or your next wife) so that you and she tend to each others needs happily and enthusiastically and COMMUNICATE those needs/wants/desires honestly and effectively.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Raymond290 said:


> Could it be that I,as the bread winner in our household believed that because I was bringing home the bacon that I subconsciously felt no obligation to satisfy her sexually?


Raymond you sound several bricks shy of a full load my man.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Boom! Afterglow. Breakfast with the wife alone while kids sleep. Alone, just the 2 of us.


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