# EA or im just Crazy



## DasAstro (Jun 16, 2011)

Wife bumped into a old friend in that she is friends on fb with. they exchanged numbers and within the first 24hrs they had 250txt back and forth to each other. when i asked her about it she lied and said no that he didnt call her or txt her. i asked to see her phone and everything was deleted. This was 9 months ago. since we have been separated once got back together and now asking for a seperation again. when we got back together she cut back on the txt to the OM but never did a no contact like i asked her. i know she shared things about our marriage with the OM and feel that he went fishing for her and she took it and now wants another separation. i have read alot of post and seems like a EA she denies anything more than frienship even though the txt where at intement times. also some very long phone conversations months ago. Is it a EA or am i crazy like she says thanks


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## ShootMePlz! (Oct 5, 2008)

Its been said when you communicate with the opposite sex in any way purposely keeping it hidden or lying about it.....its an Affair!!!


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## DasAstro (Jun 16, 2011)

Now she doesn't deny talking to him but does not share what is said between them. If she talks to anyone else she will bring up what is going on. He is a secret I only know because I checked the phone records.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

let me clear this up quick and with absolute certainty so you can move into more productive questions...

Yes, your wife is having an affair. Whether it's emotional, physical or both, I dunno.

please google the term "gaslighting" read up on it. That's what is happening to you. Your not crazy. Gaslighting is mentally abusive. It's intention is to hide something someone doesn't want to brought to light by making you question yourself.

Very common for disloyal spouses. As are the other things you describe. Textbook.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> let me clear this up quick and with absolute certainty so you can move into more productive questions...
> 
> Yes, your wife is having an affair. Whether it's emotional, physical or both, I dunno.
> 
> ...


Very true! My estranged husband was the disloyal spouse and he tried to convince my family I was bi-polar, crazy, etc. He even about had me convinced. Don't believe that for one second! You may find it helpful to see an individual therapist while you are going through this. That's how I managed to keep my sanity.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> please google the term "gaslighting" read up on it. That's what is happening to you. Your not crazy. Gaslighting is mentally abusive. It's intention is to hide something someone doesn't want to brought to light by making you question yourself.


:iagree:

DasAstro, your WW is a prime example a wayward spouse gaslighting you. If it has gone on this long and the OM is local, then it's more likely a PA now as well. 

*DO NOT ACCEPT OR FALL FOR HER GASLIGHTING ANYMORE.*


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

I'm just going to copy and paste here. Take what you need or what applies to you or can help you.

First off, know that the affair is not your fault. Have you been the perfect husband? Of course not, no one is. She had other options besides cheating, such as communicating with you on working out the marital problems, going to Marriage Counseling (MC), etc. Yet she chose the easy option: cheating. Most likely because the Other Man (OM) stroked her ego and provided the shoulder to cry on. Your wife is now a Wayward Wife (WW), so consider as such. She will give the common excuses: You weren’t there for her, OM provided for her needs because you couldn’t, etc.

The last thing you should do is to cry, beg, and/or plead with her. This not only makes you unattractive, it drives her away. Trying your best to be the best husband doesn’t work either, because you cannot compete with the fantasy she has built up with the OM.

Now you have to play detective in order to save your marriage, or to get the proof you need to end it. If you can afford it, hire a PI. If not, you will have to do this on your own. What you need to find out is if this is an Emotional Affair (EA) only, or if this has progressed to a Physical Affair (PA). What you also need to find out is who exactly the OM is, his identity, if he’s married, and if he’s married, his Betrayed Wife’s (BW) contact information. You will need this info later on.

What you should not do is confront her too early about the Affair (A). You are going to need to gather all the information that you possibly can before confrontation. We Betrayed Spouses (BS) call this investigating. Others call it snooping. The cardinal rule about investigating is NEVER REVEAL YOUR SOURCES!!! This will prevent her from denying the A, which they almost always do at first until presented with proof of the A. This will also prevent her from gas lighting you. Gas lighting is a term used when the WW, when confronted, will say that you are just jealous, imagining things, and that you are just crazy. Gathering enough proof of the A, also prevents the Wayward Spouse (WS) her, from giving you the Trickle Truth (TT). TT is when the WS minimizes what they have done in the A, and will only admit to what they think you know. For example: Most will say they only kissed their Affair Partner (AP) once, when in fact they went much farther than that. If the A has gone to a PA, they usually only admit to doing it once & with a condom! 

If the WS is using a computer as part of the tools of the A, then you will need to install computer monitoring software, the basic ones are keyloggers. There are free ones, which basically only record keystrokes, to the more expensive ones that record keystrokes, capture screenshots of the computer, email you the results, etc. There are good ones like Spector Pro, Web Watcher, Spy Agent, etc. There are also free ones, but you get what you pay for. Why do you need a keylogger? So you can be aware of their communications, such as how long this has been going on, what they have done, and what they are planning to do. Another key tool cheaters use is the secret email account. A keylogger will capture their usernames and passwords. 

Now you might feel guilty about investigating/verifying. Sorry, but their privacy went out the window the second they endangered the marriage by having an A. It is your right to investigate now, so don’t lose any sleep or feel guilty about it. If they try to turn it around on you (blame shift), tell them it’s your right because they are having an A. 

Another tool that cheaters use is the cell phone of course. Some carriers allow you to check online who the other person is calling and/or texting. If you don’t have access to this information, then use the keylogger to obtain it. If your WS has a smart phone, you may be able to install phone monitoring software such as Mobile Spy or Mobistealth. This will allow you to see their text messages. The more expensive versions of Mobile Spy and Mobistealth even allow you to listen in on their conversations in near real time, and use the GPS to track their location. If your WS suspects that you are on to them, they may purchase a secret cell phone. A clue that your WS has a secret cell phone is if they suddenly leave their regular cell phone lying about when before they were guarding it at all times. This brings me to the Voice Activated Recorder (VAR). 

A VAR can be purchased very cheap, usually around $40 or more, at either Walmart, Best Buy, or your local electronics store. A VAR can be very useful at determining if your WS has a secret cell phone. Also, a strategically placed VAR can be very useful if you are unable to install phone monitoring software on their cell phone. A good place to hide a VAR is in the WS vehicle. If there is one place they feel secure in talking with their AP, it’s in their vehicle. Some place it under the drivers seat with industrial strength Velcro. It’s up to you where you can place your VAR. You may want to hide one in your bedroom or the bathroom in order to record their conversations.

Once you have gathered your proof, it is time to confront your WW. This is called the Day of Discovery (DDay). This may well be the most traumatic day of your life. If you have gathered enough proof, your WW will not be able to deny, gas light, or TT you. Your WW will either go into crying fits, be angry, or both. She will try to blame you for the A, tell you she has been unhappy for months or years. Re-Writing the history of the marriage is a common tactic, they use it to justify the A to themselves. Stay strong and know this is not your fault! This is hers!

She will say that she does not know what she wants. This is called fence sitting. She wants the security of marriage, but wants to play around with her OM. Do not stand for this. It is either you or him. There is no room in a marriage for 3 partners. 

Another common occurrence is that the WS will leave the house when confronted on DDay. This is usually only for a few days or weeks. The WW will usually contact the OM about what happened. The WW usually comes home after a few days, but sometimes they don’t. DO NOT beg her to come home. Like I said earlier, this makes you look weak. 

Another common tactic that the WS does is to cry and plead that they want to fix the marriage after they have been caught, but then they take the A “underground”. This is when the WS has talked to the AP about ways to continue the A without your knowledge. This is usually when they resort to using a secret email account and a secret cell phone. If you have not revealed your sources, then you can usually find out if they have taken the A underground. 

If they wish to stay in the marriage, then you have to remain firm and demand No Contact (NC). They must end the affair and go NC. That is the ONLY way to save your marriage, by killing the affair. An A is exactly like a drug, because the WS receives a “high” from the affair. Feel good chemicals like dopamine and others, are excreted in the brain during the A. Giving them a high feeling, the feeling of being in love, etc. 

If your WS is very deep in the fog of the A, and refuses to go NC, or the OM/OW refuses to go NC, then the next step is exposing the A. This means contacting the other BS. This serves two purposes. This helps kill the affair by bringing it into the light of day, and you have another set of eyes watching the other side of the affair. You might even be able to compare notes with the BS and find out more information, or they may have information about the A that you didn’t know about. The other reason is because it’s the right thing to do. Wouldn’t you want someone to have told you what was going on?

Remember the monitoring I was telling you about? Monitoring the WW will allow you to know if she has broken NC. If the OM contacts her and she doesn’t tell you about it, that is also breaking NC. And if you ultimately decide to Reconcile (R), then monitoring will help rebuild trust. After you keep finding nothing, and she is doing her part in R, then you will find yourself monitoring less and less. Eventually you may be able to wean yourself off from monitoring her since she has rebuilt some trust.

Try reading these too:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/26360-betrayed-spouse-script.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/26439-bill-rights-betrayed.html


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## DasAstro (Jun 16, 2011)

Wow good stuff. The OM is single has been since they meant. She told me he had a gf and gave me a name and all. I made a secret FB account and checked his status was single and he wasn't even friend with her. I have some other proof of an affair. He is local. Even if its just an EA that's enough for me she is choosing him over me. Do I have to prove the affair to her? she knows what she is doing, I know what she is doing. I just wanted some reassurance that my wife isn't the 10% that isn't having an affair and I am just crazy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

DasAstro said:


> I just wanted some reassurance that my wife isn't having an affair and I am just crazy._Posted via Mobile Device_


You wont get it here.

I can't really assure you your not crazy, I dont know you. lol.

But, Your wife is cheating.


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## DasAstro (Jun 16, 2011)

Thanks everyone a lot of good info. Going to see a lawyer about leaving, hope to knock her off the fence and if she wants the OM good luck to her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DasAstro (Jun 16, 2011)

Just don't know why she just can't come out and say that she did have feelings for the OM or did something with him. I rather her have a one night stand with someone instead of lies and constant texting
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sparkles422 (Jun 3, 2011)

DasAstro:
My stbxh had an EA and denied it and called me a snoop but I had to verify and I did. There were constant text messages and cell calls (he bought own cell as I did, he insisted). And bought me a computer.

I couldn't live with someone I no longer trusted in matrimony. So we are in the process of divorce. Has he ever admitted it, yes but then he took it back the next day saying I was insisting on that version of the dissolution of our marriage. 

Devastated, you ask? Yes. Getting better slowly. am stuck in inhouse divorce and sometimes it is very weird. Is he having EA still, perhaps. He met her on his last 2 week vacay last month, one time he said. She is married for 45 yrs and is a grandmother. WTF!

Anyway, for me it was time to move on no matter how painful.

Good Luck. I have to say the pain was so great at times I wanted to rip my skin off to get out of my body. No longer. But a dull ache when I bump into him in house.


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

GAHHHHH!!!!!! another story exactly like mine.... GOOD GRIEF, I hate hearing this happening to someone else. AGain...
DasAstro, Your situation appears to be just like my own was.
Myspace, then Facebook "just a friend" reconnection with old boyfriend.
Texting all the time, calls, secret meetings for lunch.
Every step of the way the questions I had were turned around on me as my own lack of self esteem or jealousy.
Lies lies lies.... 
Like Sparkles is currently doing, I am living in the same house as her right now, waiting for the divorce to be finalized. I wish she was my neighbor so we could unload some of this burden on someone that understands.
Looking over at my soon-to-be-EX-wife on the couch with her IPhone in her hand, smiling at something. Just in freaking fantasy land.. Its sickening.
Be Strong Man. This is not your fault, nor is it a lack of anything youve done, and there is nothing you CAN do about it without her willingness to reconcile wholeheartedly. 
Begin to get a game plan, read the List at dadsdivorce.com and get what you can from it in terms of what applies to your situation.

Just realize, that this may be a door opening, not closing. It appears that there is a massive "weeding" going on throughout marriages all over the world. The weak hearts are being "baited" away from the true people, so that the true people can find each other, and have a real family. Like the pied piper has played, and the rats are all running off the cliffside. My wife is a rat.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

I agree, its such a sad theme that seems to be growing exponentially: Old flames reunited through the internet or social networking sites. More and more marriages are being destroyed or damaged everyday. 

It used to be that 80% of all affairs were workplace affairs. Now it's obvious that social networking sites/internet affairs are quickly catching up.


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

LordMayhem, what trips me out, is that not merely a month prior to my wife's "jump into the lake of infidelity", she was posting "happy birthday to the love of my life and soulmate, my one true love forever" on my page, and then the OM posted on her girlfriends page about how he had always loved my wife, still does, and couldnt believe that neither of them knew it. Its as if that was the turning point, where the entire history of my marriage was rendered complete "[email protected]". She went completely 180 off center. 
Im feeling quite vindictive towards the OM these days. To infect himself into our lives, to destroy a family. Whats also screwed up is when I called him to chew him out, he called back saying "your old lady said she was divorced". I played the message back for her and she said "I didnt say thaaatt!!!" 
Wow, what a man. First sign of trouble and he throws her under the bus. But he remains to this day, completely awesome in her eyes.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Shooboomafoo said:


> LordMayhem, what trips me out, is that not merely a month prior to my wife's "jump into the lake of infidelity", she was posting "happy birthday to the love of my life and soulmate, my one true love forever" on my page, and then the OM posted on her girlfriends page about how he had always loved my wife, still does, and couldnt believe that neither of them knew it. Its as if that was the turning point, where the entire history of my marriage was rendered complete "[email protected]". She went completely 180 off center.
> Im feeling quite vindictive towards the OM these days. To infect himself into our lives, to destroy a family. Whats also screwed up is when I called him to chew him out, he called back saying "your old lady said she was divorced". I played the message back for her and she said "I didnt say thaaatt!!!"
> Wow, what a man. First sign of trouble and he throws her under the bus. But he remains to this day, completely awesome in her eyes.


While you may feel vindictive towards the OM, so do I, the brunt of the blame falls with the WS. There is absolutely no chance in the world that any OM can succeed if the WW has high moral and personal boundaries and are not open to an affair. At any time they could have said NO! Don't contact me! I'm blocking you! or I'm married, get away from me! That never happened. Instead, they enjoyed the compliments, the flirting, the sweet talking. 

Of course OM is awesome in her eyes, because it's all fantasy and lies. She only sees what he projects to her, like his good side. He could be a wife beater and she wouldn't know it.....yet.


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## DasAstro (Jun 16, 2011)

I agree I am so done with the w. It still hurts but I have an email from her boss to my wife called meaning. Its about a brittany spears song Everytime lyrics. I never ever heard of this song before this email. Its about a love not me. I keep it in my back pocket anytime I get sad I pull it out, the WW doesn't know I know about it thinks I'm stupid. WW says she is disgusted with her life, I guess it will be better with the OM. We have 3 young children I help with kids and the house. Cleaning, cooking laundry, diaper duty. I can't take the lies and disrespect anymore. I will post the email when I get on my pc. Sorry for jumping around
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sparkles422 (Jun 3, 2011)

Everyone on this thread: That is what my stbxh did, facebook meant an old high school whatever and claimed he had been in contact with her throughout our marriage and didn't I know how close they had been. 

Yeah right, never heard her name until I caught him sending a song to her last October. then it was you need your own computer and I am getting a cell phone and I am also going to get a motorcycle, dye my fumanchu and become a weirdo that buys presents for his new love: zee bike. Goodbye marriage!

That's what happened to me and boy how he has lied with a straight face. 

I told my daughter it was so painful at times, I wanted to rip my skin off to remove the pain, I wanted to die sometimes. It was awful. Now I am just shaking my head saying it is really over. It is really over. Wow. WTF happened?

And this is not the only challenge, sell the house and find a job in this market. Yikes...too many lessons here God could we lighten it up a bit, just asking/begging.


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## PartlyCloudy (Jun 6, 2011)

Lot of good info & advice. You guys are dead on about social networking sites. My H & the OW started as only "facebook friends," but that eventually led to lots of phone calls & then to hanging out. The OW even sent me a friend request to prove it was innocent. I started noticing that when my H was traveling for work, OW would go days w/out posting anything. When my H was home, ie w/me, she would post something every 1-2 hours- usually mundane things like "Just finished eating" or "Going grocery shopping." It was b/c, @ those times, she couldn't talk to him, but she was throwing their relationship right in my face.


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## DasAstro (Jun 16, 2011)

Had a talk with the WW about the OM. She says again that they just txt each other and that is all they have between them. That she doesn't have feelings for him and I'm a big jerk. She says she hasn't done anything wrong. That I'm am her problem that she loves me but not in love with me. It sounds like more gas lighting. Here is my question is all of the EA thing in our heads? Do we create it and push them to the other person? Still feeling confused
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DasAstro (Jun 16, 2011)

Quick update she says space and time will make her feel better about our marriage. I asked her how does she know she says she just does. Asked her why she can't talk to me about life like she does the OM says she don't want to. That I'm driving her crazy,she through divorce in my face told her to do it I won't cry and beg. She ended up backing down and going back to the space and time thing
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sparkles422 (Jun 3, 2011)

Das: No, no, no. We have not pushed them to do anything, they chose to do it instead of talking to us. It is called communication and they failed to do that.

We were betrayed and don't let anyone tell you differently. Who the heck goes texting to another man/woman when they are married and it is not work related. No that is not quite right, is it?

I have no advice for you other than marriage counseling but be careful as they get more and more into this imaginary crap they become more and more selfish. You begin to be a hindrance to their desires.

Is it going to work with their EA who knows but I do know that 9 years counted for nothing and I got all the blame.

Now it is time to pick up the pieces of my life and become stable and secure within myself. What a fking journey.


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## DasAstro (Jun 16, 2011)

Thanks Sparkles the WW gets so defensive about the OM. I was thinking should i post the song on my FB page with a shout out to my friend and his new gf. Is that overkill will it make me feel better. i found myself digging into her today telling her she brought this other person into our marriage. She shows no remorse she thinks she can just walk all over me and i will take it


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Don't engage her. Do the elements of the 180 that you feel work for you or fit your situation. Personally, I don't agree with EVERY item, but there are some good things in there to use.

The 180​
1. Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.

2. No frequent phone calls.

3. Don't point out "good points" in marriage.

4. Don't follow her/him around the house.

5. Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.

6. Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS.

7. Don't ask for reassurances.

8. Don't buy or give gifts.

9. Don't schedule dates together.

10. Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable.

11. Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!

12. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.

13. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!

14. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue? No matter how much you want to!

15. If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. 

16. Seem totally uninterested. Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the WS)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life with out them!

17. Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.

18. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.

19. All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!

20. Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!

21. Don't be overly enthusiastic.

22. Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!

23. Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!

24. Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.

25. Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.

26. Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly. Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.

27. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.

28. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!

29. Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.

30. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"

31. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.

32. When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the OM/OW."


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## DasAstro (Jun 16, 2011)

I dont know if i want my WW back


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## DoveInTheMud (May 25, 2011)

I would recommend to do the 180 .... that way, you are building distance, and are more likely to come to a place of healing, regardless of how she reacts.
You can then still decide what you want... walk away from this, or give her a chance if she truly repents.


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## DasAstro (Jun 16, 2011)

Fathers day is on sunday, I will get to spend the day with my kids. I wish my wife was here to share the day, not how she is now but how she was before all of this
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sparkles422 (Jun 3, 2011)

Das:
It has changed, your whole relationship (or what's left of it) has changed. 
If I had a wish, I would want my marriage but look if you look at it realistically, this is what you would get:

1) An EA carried on behind your back and flaunted (when they no longer cared about your feelings)
2) Trust issues
3) Questions, questions, questions
4) You will have a VERY hard time looking at your SO in the same way
5) Lots and lots of work if you are to reconcile

That's what I had to look at. This am I told my stbxh that is was fortunate we didn't sell the house back in November since he started this EA in October. What a mess that would have been because he was playing along looking at other houses with me. I asked him to buy me out and he may crunch the numbers because I told him if not we need to rent this house out or I may rent my side out.

Today, he is wearing his wedding ring. I am so tired of the head games he plays. It is painful. I can't imagine a 65 yr old man doing games but that is what it appears to be.

Good luck for your day that it brings laughter for moments and that you have some peace of mind for moments.


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## DasAstro (Jun 16, 2011)

What is the next step. She wants space and time did that every work for someone?180 is ok but hard to do while living in the same house. Anything that I do that she don't want me to I will be called names and threaten with divorce. I think moving out and getting a written separation is best. She doesn't want to work on our marriage no remorse for what she is doing. Right now everything is her way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Look. When she threatens divorce, your only comment is..."I think that's the best idea you've had so far!!"

She's using threats against you. Why do you take them? Remain calm. You NEED to do the 180! Act like your moving on.

Ignore her. Stop pursuing her. Stop letting her dictate the terms. You realize you have terms too, right? This is not only about her.

Go 180. Then, join a gym. Listen to some Celo Green while you do it. Lol. Get your anger and confusion out of your system. Do things for you, and only you. Not with her, at least for now.

Start doing things you want to do. Work on yourself. Work on Manning up. Get a hobby. Whatever you want. Get the point?

If she brings up the relationship, tell het that you only wish to discuss the separation and the kids. No more relationship talk. Ever! Until she commits fully on working on the marriage, that is.

Separation does work, but only if you man up. Otherwise, you are the same old doormat. And, be advised that after you separate and clear your head, it may be YOU that doesn't want to reconcile.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

When she treatens you like that, say

This isn't productive. Discussion over. 

Then walk away. Remain calm. But walk away. It's only you that let's her affect you. Remember that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DasAstro (Jun 16, 2011)

Thanks alpha, I have to read more about manning up. What about bills and living apart. Part of me is like f her but if we do reconcile gotta make sure we don't fall behind on the mortgage. I know I have to pay my car payment and insurance. Any suggestions?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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