# What do you consider infidelity?



## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

With the internet these days, some consider watching porn or texting to be infidelity. We are taught that view ourselves as half of a couple in a relationship with exclusive rights to each other's sexual pleasure even after doing it a few thousand times. Those who have read my posts know that I am not in a typical marriage nor do I think others should be. It takes a special mix of people to make it work and most fail.

For most, infidelity leads to thoughts of divorce, MC or separation. Sex with others is considered the ultimate sin in a marriage. How dare you get sexual pleasure from someone else who may have a larger penis than me or be a better man or lover. Jealousy is bred from insecurity and fear of loss. For many it also is an issue of ownership of your spouse like in the olden days when a wife was legally considered property. It still exists in this enlightened age we live in. Terms like, she belongs to me, she is mine, she is with me, he is my man, I am taken, she is taken, etc. abound in our language. All ownership terms. 

I had what may be called a polyamory or ethical non monogamous marriage. We never labeled it. For us, infidelity is the lying and deceit that goes into an affair and not the sex part. We both had sex with others, as a couple mostly but also without each other. Not a problem because it was not done in secret. We each would stop any behavior that the other found uncomfortable. We did live most of our life in a poly triad, sharing my wife's girlfriend. Both girls are bisexual as were all my former girlfriends since I was 15. Why, I do not know but bi girls seem attracted to me.

Just wanted to let you know that behind the curtain of monogamy and/or vanilla sex, lies a whole other world that lives in non traditional marriages. These were our friends and considered as family with some. The view of infidelity that many have, is not the only view. Just want to start a discussion and not talk about my marriage. My marriage of 44+ years is still great and as my wife remarked last night, she cannot remember if we ever had makeup sex since we have not had a fight in decades. We have a solid marriage with lots of love. Enough to share with another woman.

Where do you draw the line in your head or marriage? Why do you accept a marriage structure that fails half of the time when you would not buy an item that might not work 50% of the time? Where do you seem marriage is heading with so many cheating and unhappy? How about internet relationships? For me, sending nude and suggestive photos to someone is not very different than standing nude in that other person's home. Please don't bash me. My friends and family who bashed us are all divorced, some more than once. Always found it odd that guys who cheat on their wives think playing with others as a couple is immoral. Anyway, what is infidelity in today's modern world? Is a fling that bad if it satisfies a need in your spouse that you are not able to meet for some reason and it makes her happier at home and with you. I am from the pre internet generation so we did not even know the labels that went with our lifestyle. To us it was just our normal life. Now it is very complicated with cell phones, texting, emails, posting of videos and pictures for others to see, etc..


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

someone who eats the last oreo!


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

My wife giving any affection, intimacy or emotion, that is mine exclusively, to another.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

P.S. I can meet and generally exceed all needs my wife has for a husband.

There is no one, or three, who could even remotely approach me in the category of husband to her.

She is definitely enough of a wife for me as well!


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I think that what we label as infidelity is largely determined by our childhood programming. By that I mean the religious, moral and other ideals that are infused into our beings from before we are born, just because we live in the environment that we do. So, because monogamy is literally bred into most of us, that's what we assume is bred into everyone as the ideal. And because of all the secrecy and shame inherent in us as sexual beings whose true sexual nature is repressed, we don't actually feel able to talk about it for the most part. Lucky are the few who are able to transcend all of this programming and live according to their true sexual nature, which I believe doesn't include life long monogamy.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

So what DOES and what SHOULD comprise infidelity are different to me. One on one online chatting is cheating. Any conversation, text, on the phone or in person, that involves anything sexual toward each other, and you aren't talking to your spouse, is cheating. Any ACTION geared towards obtaining sex or sexual titillation from someone other than the person to whom you are married is cheating. So yes, flirting can be cheating if you're serious about it.

In my ideal world, though, people wouldn't get married and there would only be a promise of exclusivity if it was overtly agreed upon.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> My wife giving any affection, intimacy or emotion, that is mine exclusively, to another.


Does this include puppies?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

P.S. I own my wife and she owns me.

I own her shapely ass 5-7 times a week and she is better in bed than anyone I have ever been with.

Her first husband was part moose (guess which part) and I am so far ahead of him in the lover department that he isn't in the same 🌌 universe!

I don't fing share! I like parking my unit in my little woman knowing there isn't anyone else I am rubbing my penis against.

Nice thought that. Rubbing my penis where another penis was recently. No thanks.

Been going strong for 25 years with no cheating and I feel good about our chances to make it 25 more.

Not bashing on swingers but not for me or Mrs. Conan.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Yeswecan said:


> Does this include puppies?


YES!!! Her chest puppies are all mine!!!


Bwahaha!!!


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## AtMyEnd (Feb 20, 2017)

I have to agree with you to some point. I myself had an EA with another woman 1000 miles away. I never meant for it to happen, but it did. My wife found out about it and I came clean on everything. Me and the OW had never had any intention of meeting in real life, our relationship was based on an online game and texting, we never even spoke on the phone. As much as I know how much it hurt my wife and understand why, even now when I look back on it I think "Did I really do anything that wrong?" We never had sex, although we talked about sex in general a lot. We exchanged pictures from time to time but never anything sexual or nude. We talked about each others relationships and lives and gave each other advice.

After my EA I caught my wife texting with another man. Although I never saw any of the actual texts, after investigating everything as much as I possibly could, I was confident that nothing physical ever happened between them. She didn't come clean about what was really going on, but I knew it had to be more than just friendly texts just as she knew that about my EA. Both things were discussed at length, the boundary was set that we both had to break contact and we both did.

The way I look at it is as much as it is wrong, what's worse? Having an EA with someone you never intend to ever have an actual affair with, or going to a strip club on a weekly or even daily basis and getting a lap dance from the same girl? Most wives don't really see anything wrong with their husbands going out with the boys to a strip club, yet they're going to have half naked women hanging and possibly grinding all over them. But sending text messages to a person of the opposite sex who you really have no intentions of contact with is wrong. It's a strange standard


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## AtMyEnd (Feb 20, 2017)

Hope1964 said:


> So what DOES and what SHOULD comprise infidelity are different to me. One on one online chatting is cheating. Any conversation, text, on the phone or in person, that involves anything sexual toward each other, and you aren't talking to your spouse, is cheating. Any ACTION geared towards obtaining sex or sexual titillation from someone other than the person to whom you are married is cheating. So yes, flirting can be cheating if you're serious about it.
> 
> In my ideal world, though, people wouldn't get married and there would only be a promise of exclusivity if it was overtly agreed upon.


So basically it seems like you're saying you consider strip clubs or masturbating to porn cheating?


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

Vinnydee said:


> Where do you draw the line in your head or marriage? Why do you accept a marriage structure that fails half of the time when you would not buy an item that might not work 50% of the time?


Good questions.

No damn clue. I'm slowly coming around to the idea of marriage in my current relationship. It wasn't that long ago that I told my partner that I didn't see the need for marriage and I didn't think it was possible for me to be satisfied with one person for the rest of my life, especially in regards to sex. Knowing the person he is, I'm surprised he didn't run for the hills when I admitted that.

I have been in an open relationship and was convinced this was how I wanted to spend the rest of my life. Since committing to my partner, I'm a bit taken aback by my own growing level of conservatism. I find myself getting jealous, I've lost attraction to other men/women, I'm interested in marriage and I can no longer fathom sharing my partner with other women.

This is all well and good for him and us. I'm not sure whether these changes mean that I am naturally prone to monogamous relationships like most folks, or my current satisfaction with the relationship is suppressing the real, less conservative me.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> YES!!! Her chest puppies are all mine!!!
> 
> 
> Bwahaha!!!


My W has a set of them puppies as well!


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

AtMyEnd said:


> So basically it seems like you're saying you consider strip clubs or masturbating to porn cheating?


Does it seem like I am saying that?


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

AtMyEnd said:


> So basically it seems like you're saying you consider strip clubs or masturbating to porn cheating?


I would not say this is infidelity. This is more so disrespectful to one's spouse. Specifically if said spouse request that clubs and porn are not to be part of the marriage.


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## AtMyEnd (Feb 20, 2017)

Hope1964 said:


> Does it seem like I am saying that?


Well yes, "Any ACTION geared towards obtaining sex or sexual titillation from someone other than the person to whom you are married is cheating" You go to a strip club for sexual titillation. You watch porn for sexual titillation. Even think back to the old days when phone sex lines were a big thing, you were calling another woman to have phone sex with. Basically that's the same as a stripper, you have no intention or expectation of ever being with the woman sexually but you're still using them to get off.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Strip clubs in and of themselves are not cheating. How could they be? They're buildings.

Masturbating to porn may or may not be, depending how you define porn. Many people lump sex chats in with videos and pictures and call them all porn. Sex chats, especially video chats, are for SURE cheating in my marriage. Or, what if my husbands coworker sends him a porno picture of herself and he masturbates to that? It's just a picture, right?


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## AtMyEnd (Feb 20, 2017)

Yeswecan said:


> I would not say this is infidelity. This is more so disrespectful to one's spouse. Specifically if said spouse request that clubs and porn are not to be part of the marriage.


Well that's different then. If a spouse specifically says that porn and strip clubs are not allowed in the marriage then technically it is infidelity to the marriage. There are a lot of fine lines here and opinions as to what is considered infidelity other than actual sex.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

AtMyEnd said:


> Well yes, "Any ACTION geared towards obtaining sex or sexual titillation from *someone* other than the person to whom you are married is cheating" You go to a strip club for sexual titillation. You watch porn for sexual titillation. Even think back to the old days when phone sex lines were a big thing, you were calling another woman to have phone sex with. Basically that's the same as a stripper, you have no intention or expectation of ever being with the woman sexually but you're still using them to get off.


For me, the 'someone' bolded above has to be a specific someone. Not just a random picture. And as far as the titillation, there's a difference between titillating just for it's own sake, and titillating with the intention of having sex or getting off with that specific person. So in a sex chat, you're interacting one on one, with the fantasy of having sex with them. In a stripper VIP room, same thing. Those are a step too far for me and my husband.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

Doing anything that you know your partner has a problem with or would be hurt by. 

But with that being said, I don’t think humans were made to be monogamous. I think we’ll all fight that until the end of time. Not that a large majority is out there consciously thinking “Man!! I really wish I could love/have sex with someone else!” Just that our bodies have a visceral reaction to the opposite sex unwillingly. When you have to fight to suppress your reactions, you’re fighting against nature. I’m not saying monogamy is WRONG, I just don’t really think that’s what we were made for.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Vinnydee said:


> Is a fling that bad if it satisfies a need in your spouse that you are not able to meet for some reason and it makes her happier at home and with you.


Ugh....Yes.

If she knew about the fling, how happy would that make her then? That's why its "that bad".

Unless you're one of those who thinks it's perfectly fine to lie to and deceive your wife; in the belief that "what she doesn't know won't hurt her". I'm not.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Phone sex with a specific person like someone you met on Facebook is for sure cheating.

Phone sex on a paid service phone number is more tricky. You don't phone the number to reach a specific person, and even if you do, you know they aren't really 19 year old hot Brandi but probably 55 year old saggy boobed Erma.


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## Melrose8888 (Jan 1, 2017)

In the eyes of your SO: Overstepping boundaries with someone other than your SO.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

LosingHim said:


> Doing anything that you know your partner has a problem with or would be hurt by.
> 
> But with that being said, I don’t think humans were made to be monogamous. I think we’ll all fight that until the end of time. Not that a large majority is out there consciously thinking “Man!! I really wish I could love/have sex with someone else!” Just that our bodies have a visceral reaction to the opposite sex unwillingly. When you have to fight to suppress your reactions, you’re fighting against nature. I’m not saying monogamy is WRONG, I just don’t really think that’s what we were made for.


We are higher beings than animals.

Violent urges are just as common as sexual ones and need to be dominated and controlled by our higher functions or we don't need to be calling ourselves human.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

ConanHub said:


> We are higher beings than animals.
> 
> Violent urges are just as common as sexual ones and need to be dominated and controlled by our higher functions or we don't need to be calling ourselves human.


Giving in to sexual urges is just a tad less likely to result in someones death I think. Not really a valid comparison. 

Resisting sexual urges is the foundation of religious sexual repression I think. And I really think the world would be a WAY happier place - and that there would be less violence!! if people weren't artificially programmed to be monogamous and were allowed to follow those urges.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Within reason - I don't mean that pedophiles should be allowed to molest kids of course.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> We are higher beings than animals.
> 
> Violent urges are just as common as sexual ones and need to be dominated and controlled by our higher functions or we don't need to be calling ourselves human.


We definitely need to fight certain primal urges. In the olden days, it may have been natural and acceptable to kill another human being that threatened your land or your home or your family. Obviously it’s not anymore. Even though the urge may still be there if someone threatens your home or your family. Society says if we defend those things physically these days, we’ll most likely end up in jail. So that’s an urge that needs to be suppressed. Temptation of the opposite sex is something that we’ve obviously grown to need to suppress as well. I’m not saying it’s wrong to suppress it or that we make the choice to be monogamous. But I am saying I think it goes against our nature at it’s core. That’s not a bad thing. Trust me when I say I melt at the posts I read here where spouses defend their spouses honor with the utmost respect and protect their marriages fiercely. I wish I had that and I wish I was able to say I DID that. That to me is a very deep love. But I still feel monogamy is against our nature at it’s core, and definitely a choice rather than being natural.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Hope1964 said:


> Giving in to sexual urges is just a tad less likely to result in someones death I think. Not really a valid comparison.
> 
> Resisting sexual urges is the foundation of religious sexual repression I think. And I really think the world would be a WAY happier place - and that there would be less violence!! if people weren't artificially programmed to be monogamous and were allowed to follow those urges.


Sexual misbehavior is very directly linked to violence.

Sexual and violent urges are very close relatives in our make up.

There are many deaths, suicides and homicides, directly related to infidelity and many instances of violence.

If you could cherry pick primal type urges I'm not sure what we would look like but you can't keep the urge to f anything that catches your eye and rid yourself of the violent ones.

I honestly believe we need both because giving in to both at the right time helps us survive.

Raising someone else's kids and STDs don't sound better to me than a broken arm or nose either.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

With my current partner, I'm still trying to figure this one out. He's my first kinky relationship (finally!), so I'm still trying to figure out what my boundaries are--and it's also his first real kinky relationship, too. I want monogamy, and we are monogamous right now. I don't know if I will ever be OK with being non-monogamous, but in our kinky world, it's harder to define than it is in vanilla-land. He's said that he's OK with me sleeping with other men, in fact he thinks it's really hot... but I'm not interested in sleeping with other men. And I'm definitely not ok with him sleeping with another woman, and he's not interested in finding another woman to sleep with right now. But he says he might want to try swinging, and I don't know if I would be ok with that. I'm definitely not interested in it right now. 

I would definitely be upset if he was sexting another woman. That would be infidelity for me. But we go to kinky events... and if he wants to touch another woman's breasts, I'll usually bo ok with it. If I said NO, he wouldn't, and he knows that there's no touching anywhere else and no kissing, that I'm not ok with. And NO ONE is allowed to touch him (intimately). I've told him, "I will cut a ***** if she touches my man."


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

LosingHim said:


> We definitely need to fight certain primal urges. In the olden days, it may have been natural and acceptable to kill another human being that threatened your land or your home or your family. Obviously it’s not anymore. Even though the urge may still be there if someone threatens your home or your family. Society says if we defend those things physically these days, we’ll most likely end up in jail. So that’s an urge that needs to be suppressed. Temptation of the opposite sex is something that we’ve obviously grown to need to suppress as well. I’m not saying it’s wrong to suppress it or that we make the choice to be monogamous. But I am saying I think it goes against our nature at it’s core. That’s not a bad thing. Trust me when I say I melt at the posts I read here where spouses defend their spouses honor with the utmost respect and protect their marriages fiercely. I wish I had that and I wish I was able to say I DID that. That to me is a very deep love. But I still feel monogamy is against our nature at it’s core, and definitely a choice rather than being natural.


You aren't alone in your feelings.

I am, and always have been, extremely monogamous even in my wild youth.

The idea of poly makes me physically ill and inspires very violent thoughts.

It strikes me as vile to my core and I have always felt this way.

So maybe not everyone has a poly nature?

I definitely don't.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

ConanHub said:


> Sexual misbehavior is very directly linked to violence.
> 
> Sexual and violent urges are very close relatives in our make up.
> 
> ...


Don't you think it's far more likely that it's the REPRESSION of sexual urges that leads to violence?

If people didn't think of infidelity as such a horrendous thing - if, in fact, infidelity didn't exist any more, because there were no marriages and people didn't assume monogamy - then there wouldn't be all of this violence as a result of infidelity.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I am not saying we should be ok with rutting on the streets. Just like I am not saying we should be OK with molesting children. What I'm saying is that, if we didn't have this innate need for monogamy, I bet more people would be OK with non-monogamy, and many of the issues we have with infidelity and sexual violence would disappear.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Hope1964 said:


> Don't you think it's far more likely that it's the REPRESSION of sexual urges that leads to violence?
> 
> If people didn't think of infidelity as such a horrendous thing - if, in fact, infidelity didn't exist any more, because there were no marriages and people didn't assume monogamy - then there wouldn't be all of this violence as a result of infidelity.


You would have to eradicate me, anyone like me and any possible gene sequence that could result in someone similar to me.

My very visceral and violent reactions to infidelity are core and I have had them since before I even believed there was a God.

I have always been monogamous naturally.

It is not a learned behavior for me but nature and instinct.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I once threatened to kill a man that said he would f my wife.

It was an immediate, reflex reaction and he came a fraction of an inch from serious bodily harm.

If he hadn't **** his pants and started backpedaling in fear, he would have been sent to the hospital at best.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I am not saying EVERYONE needs to be non-monogamous. I had the same reaction as you when I was cheated on. Try to think outside your box, dude. I highly doubt that your reaction was a result of only your genetics. It was a result of being betrayed. Every single experience in your life up to that point contributed to your reaction. There are a few examples of monogamous animals - Canada Geese come to mind - but for the most part, animalistic tendencies, IE instinct and genetics, doesn't program for monogamy.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Hope1964 said:


> I am not saying EVERYONE needs to be non-monogamous. I had the same reaction as you when I was cheated on. Try to think outside your box, dude. I highly doubt that your reaction was a result of only your genetics. It was a result of being betrayed. Every single experience in your life up to that point contributed to your reaction. There are a few examples of monogamous animals - Canada Geese come to mind - but for the most part, animalistic tendencies, IE instinct and genetics, doesn't program for monogamy.


I would argue that for some animals and many humans, monogamy is as natural as breathing.

I have always been an exclusive individual, territorial, possessive.

You can easily explain my very natural behavior in a secular or evolutionary argument if you wanted without any form of religious coloring.

I don't share and never have shared nor had the desire to share or be shared. Not once in my entire life.

Quite the opposite actually.

I think you are giving religion too much credit here.

I have definitely thought outside of any boxes.

I have a decent comprehension of poly in many forms but could never partake.

Fantasy is fine though!


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

ConanHub said:


> I have a decent comprehension of poly in many forms but could never partake.


I never could either.

I totally agree that for many monogamy is natural. All I am saying is that, if we didn't live in the environment that we do, it wouldn't be as taboo to be non-monogamous, and many people would be freed from sexual repression and able to allow themselves to express their true sexuality.

Non-heterosexuality is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Replace monogamy in my posts with whatever word you like as far as LGBTQ jargon. 100 years ago, if you weren't heterosexual you might as well jump off a bridge. And many did. We still have a way to go, but the environment is a lot better today for people who aren't purely heterosexual. But not everyone IS non-heterosexual, and that's OK.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

I guess it is a complex slippery slope.

I don't feel watching a Victoria Secret TV Fashion show to be an infidelity or cheating, even though it might get me thinking about things I shouldn't and it could hurt my wife's feelings if she could read my mind.

I don't think that going to a museum and looking at classical statues or paintings of nude women is an infidelity. And unless I constantly did it, most others would not think so as well.

An occasional strip club visit to watch, talk to, or flirt with a dancer, say once a decade or two? Probably wouldn't make my wife happy, but going there with a buddy or someone's bachelor party, I don't consider it an infidelity. 

Watching porn as long as it is not addictive or lessens my ability to provide my wife with the love she needs isn't an infidelity in my mind.

Masturbating without my wife present, watching and/or participating isn't an infidelity in my mind. This is especially true as I am the HD one in an HD/LD relationship. If I were the LD partner and it further decreased my desire for sex with my spouse, then yes it might be an infidelity.

Having intercourse with another woman, that is an infidelity in my mind.

Having a female doctor give me a manual prostate exam? An indignity, but not an infidelity. Having a cute young lady medical technician lube me up to take an ultra-sound of my testicles? Nope, not an infidelity, but pretty arousing. (Yes, that has happened and we were both uncomfortable :redcard Having a colonoscopy from a female technician? Again, an indignity, but not an infidelity and definitely not arousing!

Falling emotionally in love with someone other than my wife? Definitely an infidelity.

There are many things that can be sexually titillating, sexually arousing, or done for sexual satisfaction (masturbation), that unless they are done so frequently that they interfere with providing your spouse the love, sex, time, and financial resource they need to thrive in the marriage, I would not label as infidelities. There can even be the medically justified, touching of genitals that aren't infidelities.

In short, I don't see any real hard lines, but a slippery slope where intent, repetition and impact on your partner are more important.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Hope1964 said:


> I never could either.
> 
> I totally agree that for many monogamy is natural. All I am saying is that, if we didn't live in the environment that we do, it wouldn't be as taboo to be non-monogamous, and many people would be freed from sexual repression and able to allow themselves to express their true sexuality.
> 
> Non-heterosexuality is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Replace monogamy in my posts with whatever word you like as far as LGBTQ jargon. 100 years ago, if you weren't heterosexual you might as well jump off a bridge. And many did. We still have a way to go, but the environment is a lot better today for people who aren't purely heterosexual. But not everyone IS non-heterosexual, and that's OK.


This seems well thought out and reasonable.

Thank you for elaborating!:smile2:


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Whenever I give my unconditional vows squarely before God, my spouse, our clergy, our families, our friends, our relatives, our church and our community, to love, honor and cherish, keeping to each other until death do us part ~ well, l kind of think that has some rather faithful resonances and intonations attached to it! Don't you think that that is enough? Why would I want to break those vows because my appendage gets hornily erect and I need someone other than the woman I pledged my undying fidelity to satisfy those needs? What about my RSXW who pledged those very same vows to me and then some seven years into the marriage, her cooter gets all hot and bothered while off on one of her infamous "road trips" and she employs none other than her old BF, "Little Lord Lardass," to rub that incessant itch out of it for her? Does she get "a walk?" 

Are any of those holy vows remotely even worth the breath of air that they're uttered with? If not, then why have those holy vows in the first place? Let's just live and procreate like a bunch of crazed renegade Neanderthals!

IMHO, if someone remotely even thinks that God gives one a "free pass" to disregard the meaning and the intended security of those solemn vows, then they might be ultimately surprised when they finally have their private "one-on-one" with the Heavenly Father in the due course of time!

Not exactly saying that one would necessary be damned to hell for it, but the Eternal Father could sure ask the perpetrators some rather loaded and pointed questions about it that would certainly make them squirm in their seats!*


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

An EA or PA is infidelity. I agree there are other things that would violate my boundaries in marriage, but these two are my definition of infidelity.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> P.S. I can meet and generally exceed all needs my wife has for a husband.
> 
> There is no one, or three, who could even remotely approach me in the category of husband to her.
> 
> She is definitely enough of a wife for me as well!


Can you write my CV for me? I think my CV is lacking a modest, objective and realistic characterisation of my character


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

inmyprime said:


> Can you write my CV for me? I think my CV is lacking a modest, objective and realistic characterisation of my character


LOL! Confidence has never been my issue. :wink2:


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> LOL! Confidence has never been my issue. :wink2:


What is your greatest weakness? Let me guess: you are too honest. :grin2:


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

inmyprime said:


> What is your greatest weakness? Let me guess: you are too honest. :grin2:


I'm actually really bad with money (good at making it, bad at keeping it) and I have a bad temper.


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

I think infidelity is any romantic or sexual act where a real, living human being is on the other end and knows you're being flirtatious with them, and your spouse doesn't know about it and/or isn't okay with it. So, in my view, porn doesn't count but webcam girls or sexy texts do. Consensual polyamory and swinging don't count as cheating.

I've actually told my husband that if, down the road, he should ever fall in love or in lust with anyone else, I want him to come and tell me about it before he does anything. I've told him if he does that, I might be hurt, jealous, or emotional, but I won't believe he's done anything wrong. I've told him that in that scenario, I would consider opening up our marriage so he can have his new romance (and so could I, if I wanted) but we'd be able to do it lovingly, honestly, and with the other's full consent.

He said he would never seriously consider cheating on me, so the point is moot. Still, I think if he knows that there's an "out" for him, a way that he can cake-eat without hurting me or our marriage, he's far more likely to be honest with me rather than cheat and/or divorce me.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> I'm actually really bad with money (good at making it, bad at keeping it) and I have a bad temper.


Haha, those are still not real negatives or weaknesses. Ok, bad temper is debatable. Many women will find it hot. Probably.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

There a metric f ton of things I want to do but don't. Most have to do with other people and in no way involve sex. To say "nature says we should able to f who ever, whenever" I say then i should be able to kill all the mf that piss me off.

So we're obviously not allowed to behave like thoughtless savages without going to jail, so why put sex in a special category? It's EXACTLY the same - we accept the rules of society or we are punished by society. It's not right vs wrong, it's can I live next to the guy next door and not f his w if he doesn't f my w.

Pretty simple IMO. Social contract.

Beyond that, I have a social contract with my W. I don't bang strippers and local tinder ****s (probably my gutter level desires if I unleashed them) and she won't go to dinner and a movie with a handsome stranger (probably her basal instincts).

Beyond that,strip joints, porn, etc in moderation and disclosed are fine 

[edit: my W might have a FAR different answer ]

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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Vinnydee said:


> Why do you accept a marriage structure that fails half of the time when you would not buy an item that might not work 50% of the time?


 Although approximately 1/2 of all marriages will fail, 2/3 of people that get married will never get a divorce. This is because divorced people tend to get multiple divorces which raises the overall divorce rate. As far as open marriages go, having an open marriage increases the odds of a divorce, but that does not mean that there will not be couples such as you and your wife were it appears to work for you. I for one do not want to have to compete everyday with other men for the love and affection of my wife, especially if I am the one that works the heavy hours paying the bills while helping to raise our children. Some single guy that has all the free time in the world for my wife because he does not have to support a family, should not be able to come to my home for free sex with my wife, leaving me nothing but sloppy seconds when I get home. There are reasons that in century after century, geographic location after geographic location, and in culture after culture, monogamy has been adopted as the dominate form of marriage, and why open marriage cultures failed to compete.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

If my wife invests romantically or intimately with another person, I would consider it cheating. Whether it is long distance via text or media, or nearby, it is still cheating. Watching porn, reading erotica, etc. I do not consider cheating. Web cams, if she were interacting with the other person, yes cheating. We are monogamous, thus our own bodies and hearts are reserved for only us. 

If my wife watched porn, I would not have an issie, assuming she understood it is only fantasy and it did not adversely affect our sex life. 

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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

AtMyEnd said:


> Well that's different then. If a spouse specifically says that porn and strip clubs are not allowed in the marriage then technically it is infidelity to the marriage. There are a lot of fine lines here and opinions as to what is considered infidelity other than actual sex.


Certainly a gray area. :smile2: If my W watched a porn movie I would not consider this infidelity. In fact, she showed me once a short porn deal on the internet that she fell upon by accident searching for a cake mix or something. My W showed me and said we need to do that. 

For me, the physical act, virtual act or communication(sexual, ILY, etc) between another and my W would be considered infidelity. Watching of porn for simple entertainment or getting some ideas for the bedroom is not infidelity for me.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Watching another episode from our favorite Netflix series without you.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

LosingHim said:


> Doing anything that you know your partner has a problem with or would be hurt by.
> 
> But with that being said, I don’t think humans were made to be monogamous. I think we’ll all fight that until the end of time. Not that a large majority is out there consciously thinking “Man!! I really wish I could love/have sex with someone else!” Just that our bodies have a visceral reaction to the opposite sex unwillingly. When you have to fight to suppress your reactions, you’re fighting against nature. I’m not saying monogamy is WRONG, I just don’t really think that’s what we were made for.


I agree with this. I also think that we have made rules, indoctrinated our children, developed customs, rewards and punishments, and make social contracts to control harmful urges. To a degree, they work, and that helps us all be more secure and able to live happy lives. 

Now, some things are more harmful than others, and can't be allowed or condoned under normal circumstances - violence and especially murder fall here.

Infidelity does not reach that level, but can be very hurtful and harmful. HOWEVER, if a couple mutually agrees to some form of non-monogamy, and follows the rules they decide for this, then that is their choice and there is nothing wrong with it; it's not infidelity. Sure, they may break the rules, and suffer the consequences, just as they would with anything else. Monogamy is on a spectrum of natural human mating behavior - for some I'd say it is their natural mode, and for others it is not ... all the way to uncontrolled promiscuity at the other end of that spectrum. Most people fall somewhere between, being serially monogamous - and that's largely our culture and socialization. For those who don't naturally gravitate to monogamy, there is nothing wrong with then ethically negotiating some other arrangement with one or more partners.

Infidelity is breaking your agreement, whatever that agreement is.


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

Pretty much any obsessive behavior that reduces the time that spouses spend together. Intimacy is not just physical.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

LosingHim said:


> But I still feel monogamy is against our nature at it’s core, and definitely a choice rather than being natural.


I'll take this one further - LOVE - love is a choice.
You choose to fall in love.
You choose to be in love.
You choose to remain in love.

Monogamy is no different than love in that regard. 

But I digress from the OP question.

What is infidelity?
Anytime you give energy (be it mental, physical, emotional or sexual) (NINJA EDIT) that is to be given to your spouse to someone other than your spouse.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

snerg said:


> What is infidelity?
> Anytime you give energy (be it mental, physical, emotional or sexual) to someone other than your spouse.


Your kids? Your parents? Your job? I think your definition is a little too broad!


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