# Marriage Material?



## Trustless Marriage

Prior to getting married, I broke up with my then girlfriend after 2 years of dating. A week later, she went bar hopping with a guy she had just met through a friend. Supposedly nothing happened. Two weeks later, she has a one night stand with someone she met at a bar. They went back to her apartment, partied with her roommate and her boyfriend and then retired to the bedroom. They had sex 4 times that night, including oral, and concluded with a romp in the morning. She said she asked him to wear a condom but only found one in the morning and thinks the guy took it off shortly after having intercourse for the first time. 

My problem is this. Before we got back together, I said I would only take her back if she had not been with any other guys during our 4 week breakup. She denied ever being with someone else and she sounded convincing to say the least. Did she have the right to have a ONS? Sure - we were not a couple. Do I think she disrespected me, our relationship and herself by not only having a ONS but having one so quickly AND so intimately as she did? Absolutely - no arguing that. Because she did this within weeks of our break up and then lied about it, it has always felt to me as if she cheated on me. Not to mention she put my health at risk for having unprotected sex with a stranger and I not knowing anything about it. She cared more about giving this guy herpes then her or myself catching anything he had.

I found out about all this after she slipped up in a lie about her past. Then a whole can of worms came out including this night. Originally she said she never wanted any of it, that the entire evening was horrible (the worst night of her life), that she didn't want to be around the guy, that unknowingly he followed her home after the bar, somehow knew which apartment she lived in, somehow got through the security door, for some odd reason she said nothing when he came into the apartment (What are YOU doing here? How did you know where I lived? Nothing), that she told him NO in bed and that she felt like she was raped even though she "gave in". I never believed this story for a second because it had more holes in it than swiss cheese. Nothing she did that entire night fit with what she was "thinking and feeling". She had plenty of opportunities to ditch this guy yet she did nothing. Actions speak louder than words. 

After denying that she was never looking to date anyone (you don't meet guys out unless you are looking to date) I finally got her to admit that she was "considering" (not "looking" lol see who I am dealing with?) to date other men. I also got her to admit that she DID, on her own will, decide to give this guy a chance and that by sleeping with him was her way of feeling accepted by him. It's all starting to make sense now and it's all what I suspected. For the past year she made up this story that was suppose to make me feel sorry for her when in fact it's starting to look like it was just the opposite. I believe she was a full participant of everything that happened that night and all this baloney about it being the worst night of her life is just a decoy. FYI she has yet to explain what was so horrible that night even though I have asked her many times.

This isn't the first thing she has lied to me about and I just think I made a mistake marrying this woman. Trust is the foundation of any marriage. She, in a sense, decided for me who I marry since she lied to me about everything I was looking for a woman. I know women often lie about their past but it doesn't make it right. I have given her plenty of chances to come clean but she is still fighting it. 

Is this woman marriage material and take the chance she can change? Or do I find someone who I can trust?


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## jorgegene

no, she's definitely not marriage material


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## Enigma32

I'd say your marriage is built on a foundation of lies.


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## QuietRiot

Some people lie about their past. Not women. Not men. Some people. You married one of them.

She owed you no loyalty when you were broken up. It’s her choice to screw the entire town 23 times if you’re not in a relationship. I would have told you it was none of your business what I did in my time as a single person and let you make your own choices from there. 

But, lying IS a problem. And instead of coming clean later she doubled down on the lies... even throwing in a rape story. This is not a person you can trust and you know that. It’s a bit late to ask if she’s marriage material though. I find that strange.


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## sokillme

Trustless Marriage said:


> Prior to getting married, I broke up with my then girlfriend after 2 years of dating. A week later, she went bar hopping with a guy she had just met through a friend. Supposedly nothing happened. Two weeks later, she has a one night stand with someone she met at a bar. They went back to her apartment, partied with her roommate and her boyfriend and then retired to the bedroom. They had sex 4 times that night, including oral, and concluded with a romp in the morning. She said she asked him to wear a condom but only found one in the morning and thinks the guy took it off shortly after having intercourse for the first time.
> 
> My problem is this. Before we got back together, I said I would only take her back if she had not been with any other guys during our 4 week breakup. She denied ever being with someone else and she sounded convincing to say the least. Did she have the right to have a ONS? Sure - we were not a couple. Do I think she disrespected me, our relationship and herself by not only having a ONS but having one so quickly AND so intimately as she did? Absolutely - no arguing that. Because she did this within weeks of our break up and then lied about it, it has always felt to me as if she cheated on me. Not to mention she put my health at risk for having unprotected sex with a stranger and I not knowing anything about it. She cared more about giving this guy herpes then her or myself catching anything he had.
> 
> I found out about all this after she slipped up in a lie about her past. Then a whole can of worms came out including this night. Originally she said she never wanted any of it, that the entire evening was horrible (the worst night of her life), that she didn't want to be around the guy, that unknowingly he followed her home after the bar, somehow knew which apartment she lived in, somehow got through the security door, for some odd reason she said nothing when he came into the apartment (What are YOU doing here? How did you know where I lived? Nothing), that she told him NO in bed and that she felt like she was raped even though she "gave in". I never believed this story for a second because it had more holes in it than swiss cheese. Nothing she did that entire night fit with what she was "thinking and feeling". She had plenty of opportunities to ditch this guy yet she did nothing. Actions speak louder than words.
> 
> After denying that she was never looking to date anyone (you don't meet guys out unless you are looking to date) I finally got her to admit that she was "considering" (not "looking" lol see who I am dealing with?) to date other men. I also got her to admit that she DID, on her own will, decide to give this guy a chance and that by sleeping with him was her way of feeling accepted by him. It's all starting to make sense now and it's all what I suspected. For the past year she made up this story that was suppose to make me feel sorry for her when in fact it's starting to look like it was just the opposite. I believe she was a full participant of everything that happened that night and all this baloney about it being the worst night of her life is just a decoy. FYI she has yet to explain what was so horrible that night even though I have asked her many times.
> 
> This isn't the first thing she has lied to me about and I just think I made a mistake marrying this woman. Trust is the foundation of any marriage. She, in a sense, decided for me who I marry since she lied to me about everything I was looking for a woman. I know women often lie about their past but it doesn't make it right. I have given her plenty of chances to come clean but she is still fighting it.
> 
> Is this woman marriage material and take the chance she can change? Or do I find someone who I can trust?


Obviously not for you, which is your right. Someone else may not care.


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## Mr.Married

She didn’t tell you because she knew you were going to cry a river over it. In your case she isn’t the one for you. As someone above said .... some men could care less, your just not one of them. My opinion about these cases is never popular here at TAM.


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## happyhusband0005

Trustless Marriage said:


> Prior to getting married, I broke up with my then girlfriend after 2 years of dating. A week later, she went bar hopping with a guy she had just met through a friend. Supposedly nothing happened. Two weeks later, she has a one night stand with someone she met at a bar. They went back to her apartment, partied with her roommate and her boyfriend and then retired to the bedroom. They had sex 4 times that night, including oral, and concluded with a romp in the morning. She said she asked him to wear a condom but only found one in the morning and thinks the guy took it off shortly after having intercourse for the first time.
> 
> My problem is this. Before we got back together, I said I would only take her back if she had not been with any other guys during our 4 week breakup. She denied ever being with someone else and she sounded convincing to say the least. Did she have the right to have a ONS? Sure - we were not a couple. Do I think she disrespected me, our relationship and herself by not only having a ONS but having one so quickly AND so intimately as she did? Absolutely - no arguing that. Because she did this within weeks of our break up and then lied about it, it has always felt to me as if she cheated on me. Not to mention she put my health at risk for having unprotected sex with a stranger and I not knowing anything about it. She cared more about giving this guy herpes then her or myself catching anything he had.
> 
> I found out about all this after she slipped up in a lie about her past. Then a whole can of worms came out including this night. Originally she said she never wanted any of it, that the entire evening was horrible (the worst night of her life), that she didn't want to be around the guy, that unknowingly he followed her home after the bar, somehow knew which apartment she lived in, somehow got through the security door, for some odd reason she said nothing when he came into the apartment (What are YOU doing here? How did you know where I lived? Nothing), that she told him NO in bed and that she felt like she was raped even though she "gave in". I never believed this story for a second because it had more holes in it than swiss cheese. Nothing she did that entire night fit with what she was "thinking and feeling". She had plenty of opportunities to ditch this guy yet she did nothing. Actions speak louder than words.
> 
> After denying that she was never looking to date anyone (you don't meet guys out unless you are looking to date) I finally got her to admit that she was "considering" (not "looking" lol see who I am dealing with?) to date other men. I also got her to admit that she DID, on her own will, decide to give this guy a chance and that by sleeping with him was her way of feeling accepted by him. It's all starting to make sense now and it's all what I suspected. For the past year she made up this story that was suppose to make me feel sorry for her when in fact it's starting to look like it was just the opposite. I believe she was a full participant of everything that happened that night and all this baloney about it being the worst night of her life is just a decoy. FYI she has yet to explain what was so horrible that night even though I have asked her many times.
> 
> This isn't the first thing she has lied to me about and I just think I made a mistake marrying this woman. Trust is the foundation of any marriage. She, in a sense, decided for me who I marry since she lied to me about everything I was looking for a woman. I know women often lie about their past but it doesn't make it right. I have given her plenty of chances to come clean but she is still fighting it.
> 
> Is this woman marriage material and take the chance she can change? Or do I find someone who I can trust?


I think you came here looking to confirm your gut. Consider it confirmed. Regardless of any arguments about you were broken up why do you care what she did anyway, you have no right to know anything as you were not together, your trust has been lost that is a very hard thing to get back. In any event you will not be able to have the same quality of marriage as you could with someone who you do trust and will not have resentment towards.


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## GC1234

Trustless Marriage said:


> My problem is this. Before we got back together, I said I would only take her back if she had not been with any other guys during our 4 week breakup.


Well, to be fair...what did you think she would do? You set yourself up for that one.


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## oldshirt

Who knows if she’ll be a good wife or not. Check back in 30 years and let us know. 

Frankly I think you are off-base here. 

Breaking up is breaking up. You don’t get to put stipulations on what people do when you are broke up. It was her right to screw half the town if she wanted and then screw the other half when she was rested up. 

Stipulating that you’d get back with her as long as she hadn’t been with someone else is just being a jerk. 

What she did while single is her business and none of yours. If you were so worried about her being diseased you shouldve asked for an STI test before having sex with her. 

And thinking that a young, healthy woman hadn’t been out with others is just being willfully naive on your part. Yeah she may have lied but that wasn’t an appropriate question in the first place and you should have known better than to think she hadn’t been out. What was she supposed to do, sit by the phone waiting for you to call after splitting up?? 

You simply heard what you wanted to hear and believed what you wanted to believe and now you are judging her for what you should have safely assumed would happen anyway. 

Now, am I saying that you have to stay married if you don’t want?? No. File divorce papers on her tomorrow if you want. That’s your perogative just as hooking up with dudes while she was a free and single woman was her Perogative.

Yes chicks lie about their sexual pasts. That’s because judgemental, insecure men judge and persecute them for it because they’re worried their winkie isn’t as big as the other guy’s. 

This is on you and this is your own issue.

If you can’t live with it, divorce her. There’s no law that says you have to be married. If you can’t respect her and treat her with the dignity a wife deserves, then let her go so she can find someone that will love and honor her.

You have the right to seek whatever criteria you want in a mate and you have the right to divorce her if she doesn’t meet your criteria.

But what you don’t have is the right to disrespect her and treat her badly or treat her as less-than because she was a normal young woman when she was single.


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## Luckylucky

Are you both young?


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## Openminded

You’ll never trust her. Only you know if you can spend the rest of your life with someone you don’t trust.


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## oldshirt

Trustless Marriage said:


> Prior to getting married, I broke up with my then girlfriend after 2 years of dating. A week later, she went bar hopping with a guy she had just met through a friend. Supposedly nothing happened. Two weeks later, she has a one night stand with someone she met at a bar.
> 
> 
> 
> My problem is this. Do I think she disrespected me, our relationship and herself by not only having a ONS but having one so quickly AND so intimately as she did? Absolutely - no arguing that. Because she did this within weeks of our break up and then lied about it, it has always felt to me as if she cheated on me.


Some things here seem to be at the core of your issues here.

Lemme tell you some facts of life here. 

Young, single women have men circling around them at all times like horse flys buzzing around a horse’s butt. 

A woman in her early 20s has a range of opportunities in men from age 18-80. 

Everywhere she goes and every man she encounters basically says, “.....would you like some **** with that?” 

The whole world is their oyster and their options and opportunities are ever present.

Additionally, women simply rebound and recover faster and more efficiently than men after a break up. They just do. It’s a design feature in how they are made.

A woman can disconnect from one man and engage with another before her previous BF can change the oil in his car. 

A guy can take months to get over a break up and back to his normal, happy self and it can take months and months if not a year or more until he connects with someone special again.

An attractive woman can be in full stride with other suitor(s) in days or week or two.

That is just the nature of the beast just like birds fly, fish swim and rabbits run. 

A lot of guys are resentful of this. They feel it is a dig against them and an indictment against them and a testament against their relationship.... but it really isn’t. It’s just how women are wired. 

You can’t hate the bird for flying because that is what birds do and the bird is not showing judgment or disrespect to you when you are stuck on the ground. It is just doing what birds do. 

Chicks move on quickly to other hook ups and other relationships compared to men. It’s their nature and not a sign of their esteem or significance to their previous relationship. 

Don’t hate the bird for flying or the rabbit for running.


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## QuietRiot

oldshirt said:


> Some things here seem to be at the core of your issues here.
> 
> Lemme tell you some facts of life here.
> 
> Young, single women have men circling around them at all times like horse flys buzzing around a horse’s butt.
> 
> A woman in her early 20s has a range of opportunities in men from age 18-80.
> 
> Everywhere she goes and every man she encounters basically says, “.....would you like some **** with that?”
> 
> The whole world is their oyster and their options and opportunities are ever present.
> 
> Additionally, women simply rebound and recover faster and more efficiently than men after a break up. They just do. It’s a design feature in how they are made.
> 
> A woman can disconnect from one man and engage with another before her previous BF can change the oil in his car.
> 
> A guy can take months to get over a break up and back to his normal, happy self and it can take months and months if not a year or more until he connects with someone special again.
> 
> An attractive woman can be in full stride with other suitor(s) in days or week or two.
> 
> That is just the nature of the beast just like birds fly, fish swim and rabbits run.
> 
> A lot of guys are resentful of this. They feel it is a dig against them and an indictment against them and a testament against their relationship.... but it really isn’t. It’s just how women are wired.
> 
> You can’t hate the bird for flying because that is what birds do and the bird is not showing judgment or disrespect to you when you are stuck on the ground. It is just doing what birds do.
> 
> Chicks move on quickly to other hook ups and other relationships compared to men. It’s their nature and not a sign of their esteem or significance to their previous relationship.
> 
> Don’t hate the bird for flying or the rabbit for running.


Are you kidding? I see the exact opposite! I see it as men “get over” someone to get over someone else. How interesting. I have never known a man to sit around pining for his lost whomever for months... I usually see them at the bar the next night. 

Also, yes a woman may be able to get laid anytime she wants to, but that doesn’t mean from the type of guys she wants it from. I have never considered the world my oyster, honestly... but I don’t value getting laid casually or think one night stands are any fun whatsoever. 

I suppose this is off topic and I guess the OPs wife is exactly the type of person you are referring to so my point probably is not well made. 😂


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## oldshirt

QuietRiot said:


> Are you kidding? I see the exact opposite! I see it as men “get over” someone to get over someone else. How interesting. I have never known a man to sit around pining for his lost whomever for months... I usually see them at the bar the next night.
> 
> Also, yes a woman may be able to get laid anytime she wants to, but that doesn’t mean from the type of guys she wants it from. I have never considered the world my oyster, honestly... but I don’t value getting laid casually or think one night stands are any fun whatsoever.
> 
> I suppose this is off topic and I guess the OPs wife is exactly the type of person you are referring to so my point probably is not well made. 😂


I wasn’t really talking about getting laid casually per se and not arguing about who is cruising bars for action first. 

Women simply get over break ups and recover faster and young women in their 20s will have comparatively more options and opportunities than comparable men their age. 

Are the exceptions? Of course. But on average women get over break ups and move on to other relationships more efficiently than men.

You rarely ever hear of the term “monkey branching” being applied to men. It is almost always a female concept. 

My point to the post in the OP’s case is it is common for men to feel resentment and even disgust towards women and feel it is kind of a dig against them when this happens. but it’s kind of how it is and kind of pointless to be angered towards women when this happens as it’s just kind of how they’re made.


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## Wolfman1968

Trustless Marriage said:


> Is this woman marriage material and take the chance she can change? Or do I find someone who I can trust?


It doesn't matter if she can change, in this case. YOU can't. You will always resent the situation.

She lied to you. Frankly, she can do whatever she wants when she is single, but she doesn't have the right to lie to you, especially when there is a potential for STDs. 
She can tell you it's none of your business, but the lying erodes the trust in the marriage.

Because I think you will always resent her, if your marriage is very short, then you should end it now, if there are no kids involved. 
If it's a long term marriage with kids, it becomes more complex. But I think you will never let this go, and that it will eventually destroy your affection for each other. So better to end it now if it can be done cleanly with minimal complications.


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## frusdil

Um, you dumped her. Absolutely NONE of your business what she did or who she did it with, between the time you dumped her and then got back together. The only thing you can reasonably ask, is did she have unprotected sex with anyone (if she lies about that, shame on her). But how many, who, what they did or where is none of your business. Were I her I would have told you as much.

Would I do that? No, but I'm not her. 

I see posts like this both here and on FB all the time from people, men and women, who left their partners/spouses yet whine that the partner/spouse has moved on "and it's only been 3 months". YOU DUMPED THEM. Wtf???


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## Diana7

Trustless Marriage said:


> Prior to getting married, I broke up with my then girlfriend after 2 years of dating. A week later, she went bar hopping with a guy she had just met through a friend. Supposedly nothing happened. Two weeks later, she has a one night stand with someone she met at a bar. They went back to her apartment, partied with her roommate and her boyfriend and then retired to the bedroom. They had sex 4 times that night, including oral, and concluded with a romp in the morning. She said she asked him to wear a condom but only found one in the morning and thinks the guy took it off shortly after having intercourse for the first time.
> 
> My problem is this. Before we got back together, I said I would only take her back if she had not been with any other guys during our 4 week breakup. She denied ever being with someone else and she sounded convincing to say the least. Did she have the right to have a ONS? Sure - we were not a couple. Do I think she disrespected me, our relationship and herself by not only having a ONS but having one so quickly AND so intimately as she did? Absolutely - no arguing that. Because she did this within weeks of our break up and then lied about it, it has always felt to me as if she cheated on me. Not to mention she put my health at risk for having unprotected sex with a stranger and I not knowing anything about it. She cared more about giving this guy herpes then her or myself catching anything he had.
> 
> I found out about all this after she slipped up in a lie about her past. Then a whole can of worms came out including this night. Originally she said she never wanted any of it, that the entire evening was horrible (the worst night of her life), that she didn't want to be around the guy, that unknowingly he followed her home after the bar, somehow knew which apartment she lived in, somehow got through the security door, for some odd reason she said nothing when he came into the apartment (What are YOU doing here? How did you know where I lived? Nothing), that she told him NO in bed and that she felt like she was raped even though she "gave in". I never believed this story for a second because it had more holes in it than swiss cheese. Nothing she did that entire night fit with what she was "thinking and feeling". She had plenty of opportunities to ditch this guy yet she did nothing. Actions speak louder than words.
> 
> After denying that she was never looking to date anyone (you don't meet guys out unless you are looking to date) I finally got her to admit that she was "considering" (not "looking" lol see who I am dealing with?) to date other men. I also got her to admit that she DID, on her own will, decide to give this guy a chance and that by sleeping with him was her way of feeling accepted by him. It's all starting to make sense now and it's all what I suspected. For the past year she made up this story that was suppose to make me feel sorry for her when in fact it's starting to look like it was just the opposite. I believe she was a full participant of everything that happened that night and all this baloney about it being the worst night of her life is just a decoy. FYI she has yet to explain what was so horrible that night even though I have asked her many times.
> 
> This isn't the first thing she has lied to me about and I just think I made a mistake marrying this woman. Trust is the foundation of any marriage. She, in a sense, decided for me who I marry since she lied to me about everything I was looking for a woman. I know women often lie about their past but it doesn't make it right. I have given her plenty of chances to come clean but she is still fighting it.
> 
> Is this woman marriage material and take the chance she can change? Or do I find someone who I can trust?


Well I wouldn't have married her in the first place if I was you. Too many red flags.


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## lifeistooshort

frusdil said:


> Um, you dumped her. Absolutely NONE of your business what she did or who she did it with, between the time you dumped her and then got back together. The only thing you can reasonably ask, is did she have unprotected sex with anyone (if she lies about that, shame on her). But how many, who, what they did or where is none of your business. Were I her I would have told you as much.
> 
> Would I do that? No, but I'm not her.
> 
> I see posts like this both here and on FB all the time from people, men and women, who left their partners/spouses yet whine that the partner/spouse has moved on "and it's only been 3 months". YOU DUMPED THEM. Wtf???


Right? It takes some kind of nerve to think you can dump someone but should still have a say in how long they wait to find someone else. 

But I do think she should've been honest about it.


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## BigDigg

I think her and your age both at the time of supposed 'transgressions' and the cover up matter...missing that context.

I think the screwing part is no big deal and you had no right to expect or demand fidelity during that period. And young people will occasionally go out, drink a little...and screw  One of the better parts of life when I was younger and fond memories. Now do you want to be with that kind of person is up to you but I don't think she had an obligation to disclose it and I don't think you had a right to demand it.

The lying IS a problem and a major red flag, but again context matters. You backed her in a corner with your unreasonable demands and created an environment where she had few choices. She chose the less honorable way so now you know what she's capable of. Good data point. But I guess I'd ask you to look into mirror - is someone who's controlling and unrealistic marriage material either?


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## marko polo

_This isn't the first thing she has lied to me about and I just think I made a mistake marrying this woman. Trust is the foundation of any marriage. She, in a sense, decided for me who I marry since she lied to me about everything I was looking for a woman. I know women often lie about their past but it doesn't make it right. I have given her plenty of chances to come clean but she is still fighting it._

Trust your instincts. 

She knew how you felt about this issue of fidelity regardless of how "unreasonable" it might have been before marriage. You would have left her behind and moved on. Her solution to the problem was to lie to you and do what she wanted to do anyway. I would agree that your wife is not marriage material.

You will not change her or convince her to tell the truth. She will be even less likely to tell it to you now that you are married and she lied to you to get to this point. So you can accept the situation as it is or make the decision to leave.

Choosing to part ways now over later is for the best especially if you do not have children together. It will be unpleasant but I think you will find this the lesser evil considering the alternative(s) - her cheating on you while married on top of valid trust concerns that are eating you up from the inside.


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## joannacroc

The thing I would be upset about would be the lying. You made your boundaries clear, whether or not we agree with them. But the tricky thing is you backed her into a corner (admit the truth and don't marry you or lie and marry you). If do-overs were possible I would have a frank discussion with her. Maybe it's you both talking about whether or not you dated, whether you had unprotected sex or whether you both wanted to exchange STI tests. But since time travel isn't possible, I guess the question is whether you can live with someone who lied to you about something they were perfectly within their rights to do just to marry you. 

For me the rape story is a BIG red flag. Bigger than the lying about not sleeping with someone or dating someone because to lie about being raped is absolutely abominable. To make up such a thing is a big reason why women who are genuinely raped don;t come forward - they think nobody will believe them. They think everyone will think they're making it up. Because of people like this. What kind of person does that?

What happens if things go south between the two of you? Will she cheat in future and make similar claims? It not only could have led to this guy facing charges for a consensual one night stand had she stuck to her story, but it is also god forbid, a reason why if this genuinely happened to her in the future, and she was actually raped in the future, any reasonable person would have a hard time believing her because she lied about that in the past. Is this really someone you trust with your future or any possible kids?


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## hinterdir

Trustless Marriage said:


> Prior to getting married, I broke up with my then girlfriend after 2 years of dating. A week later, she went bar hopping with a guy she had just met through a friend. Supposedly nothing happened. Two weeks later, she has a one night stand with someone she met at a bar. They went back to her apartment, partied with her roommate and her boyfriend and then retired to the bedroom. They had sex 4 times that night, including oral, and concluded with a romp in the morning. She said she asked him to wear a condom but only found one in the morning and thinks the guy took it off shortly after having intercourse for the first time.
> 
> My problem is this. Before we got back together, I said I would only take her back if she had not been with any other guys during our 4 week breakup. She denied ever being with someone else and she sounded convincing to say the least. Did she have the right to have a ONS? Sure - we were not a couple. Do I think she disrespected me, our relationship and herself by not only having a ONS but having one so quickly AND so intimately as she did? Absolutely - no arguing that. Because she did this within weeks of our break up and then lied about it, it has always felt to me as if she cheated on me. Not to mention she put my health at risk for having unprotected sex with a stranger and I not knowing anything about it. She cared more about giving this guy herpes then her or myself catching anything he had.
> 
> I found out about all this after she slipped up in a lie about her past. Then a whole can of worms came out including this night. Originally she said she never wanted any of it, that the entire evening was horrible (the worst night of her life), that she didn't want to be around the guy, that unknowingly he followed her home after the bar, somehow knew which apartment she lived in, somehow got through the security door, for some odd reason she said nothing when he came into the apartment (What are YOU doing here? How did you know where I lived? Nothing), that she told him NO in bed and that she felt like she was raped even though she "gave in". I never believed this story for a second because it had more holes in it than swiss cheese. Nothing she did that entire night fit with what she was "thinking and feeling". She had plenty of opportunities to ditch this guy yet she did nothing. Actions speak louder than words.
> 
> After denying that she was never looking to date anyone (you don't meet guys out unless you are looking to date) I finally got her to admit that she was "considering" (not "looking" lol see who I am dealing with?) to date other men. I also got her to admit that she DID, on her own will, decide to give this guy a chance and that by sleeping with him was her way of feeling accepted by him. It's all starting to make sense now and it's all what I suspected. For the past year she made up this story that was suppose to make me feel sorry for her when in fact it's starting to look like it was just the opposite. I believe she was a full participant of everything that happened that night and all this baloney about it being the worst night of her life is just a decoy. FYI she has yet to explain what was so horrible that night even though I have asked her many times.
> 
> This isn't the first thing she has lied to me about and I just think I made a mistake marrying this woman. Trust is the foundation of any marriage. She, in a sense, decided for me who I marry since she lied to me about everything I was looking for a woman. I know women often lie about their past but it doesn't make it right. I have given her plenty of chances to come clean but she is still fighting it.
> 
> Is this woman marriage material and take the chance she can change? Or do I find someone who I can trust?



This is an easy one....NOT MARRIAGE MATERIAL. 
She is a liar and a bit loose. 
Do yourself a favor and just put this one in the rear view mirror. Start meeting and dating other girls.
Cut this one out of your life.


----------



## Manner1067

After you broke up with her, she was on the rebound and looking for validation. When a hot guy presented himself, she jumped into bed with him

I think there are some lessons to be learned here:

1. Women make rules for regular guys and break rules for hot guys. Which one are you? Studies have shown that even though women endorse condom use and safe sex, that goes right out-the-window when a hot guy climbs into bed with them. The hotter the guy, the less likely a condom will be used. Now you know

2. Any girl that will have a ONS is one argument away from having one while you are dating her, or even if you are married to her. I am a handsome guy, and not once in my life did I have a ONS, even when presented with the option. Sure, I fooled around a bit, but by the time I was in my early 20s, I had standards for myself and others. Engaging in such behavior is reckless and problematic for both men and women.

children are reckless and irresponsible. Don't go marry a child. Marry a mature woman

So no, the girl is clearly not marriage material. Now she might grow up and mature and become a different person, but she isn't ready yet. 

My wife had a few ONS when she was in her early years of college --without protection. It is a real sore spot with me, and I didn't learn about all of it until 15 years into our marriage.


----------



## hinterdir

oldshirt said:


> Some things here seem to be at the core of your issues here.
> 
> Lemme tell you some facts of life here.
> 
> Young, single women have men circling around them at all times like horse flys buzzing around a horse’s butt.
> 
> A woman in her early 20s has a range of opportunities in men from age 18-80.
> 
> Everywhere she goes and every man she encounters basically says, “.....would you like some **** with that?”
> 
> The whole world is their oyster and their options and opportunities are ever present.
> 
> Additionally, women simply rebound and recover faster and more efficiently than men after a break up. They just do. It’s a design feature in how they are made.
> 
> A woman can disconnect from one man and engage with another before her previous BF can change the oil in his car.
> 
> A guy can take months to get over a break up and back to his normal, happy self and it can take months and months if not a year or more until he connects with someone special again.
> 
> An attractive woman can be in full stride with other suitor(s) in days or week or two.
> 
> That is just the nature of the beast just like birds fly, fish swim and rabbits run.
> 
> A lot of guys are resentful of this. They feel it is a dig against them and an indictment against them and a testament against their relationship.... but it really isn’t. It’s just how women are wired.
> 
> You can’t hate the bird for flying because that is what birds do and the bird is not showing judgment or disrespect to you when you are stuck on the ground. It is just doing what birds do.
> 
> Chicks move on quickly to other hook ups and other relationships compared to men. It’s their nature and not a sign of their esteem or significance to their previous relationship.
> 
> Don’t hate the bird for flying or the rabbit for running.


If he doesn't want to be with a girl who is already screwing men just a couple of weeks after a break up.....then that is 100% his prerogative. 
Since the break up was still so fresh....if he only was willing to get back together if she hadn't already had sex.....his prerogative. 
If you don't have the same moral code as him....no one cares. 

She lies and doesn't have the same sexual values or moral code as him. 

Mismatch.


----------



## lifeistooshort

hinterdir said:


> If he doesn't want to be with a girl who is already screwing men just a couple of weeks after a break up.....then that is 100% his prerogative.
> Since the break up was still so fresh....if he only was willing to get back together if she hadn't already had sex.....his prerogative.
> If you don't have the same moral code as him....no one cares.
> 
> She lies and doesn't have the same sexual values or moral code as him.
> 
> Mismatch.


I agree that it's fine for him to decide that their values don't align, and that she should've been honest.

I'm bothered by his claim that her choices after their breakup somehow "disrespected" him, as if he was entitled to any input at all in the actions of a woman he just dumped.


----------



## Mr. Nail

Trustless Marriage said:


> I said I would only take her back if she had not been with any other guys during our 4 week breakup.


He told her what lie he needed to hear and she supplied it.


----------



## Trustless Marriage

lifeistooshort said:


> Right? It takes some kind of nerve to think you can dump someone but should still have a say in how long they wait to find someone else.
> 
> But I do think she should've been honest about it.


Thanks for your feedback but I think I just heard you say my moral and values do not matter. If you like men who have been around the block banging two tooth meth hookers every weekend and that doesn't bother you then by all means go for it. I won't judge you. I myself was looking for a certain standard of women. They are called Ladies (you might want to look that word up). Any woman who, after two years of dating, jumps right into the sack with a stranger having all night unprotected sex is not who most guys want as a wife and it certainly says a lot about the relationship we had in the first place and the possibility of her cheating in the future. Oh, and btw the guy never called her again. I'm sure he had a significant other and used my wife for a rodeo of all night sex when he told his significant other he was "out of town for business".


----------



## lifeistooshort

Trustless Marriage said:


> Thanks for your feedback but I think I just heard you say my moral and values do not matter. If you like men who have been around the block banging two tooth meth hookers every weekend and that doesn't bother you then by all means go for it. I won't judge you. I myself was looking for a certain standard of women. They are called Ladies (you might want to look that word up). Any woman who, after two years of dating, jumps right into the sack with a stranger having all night unprotected sex is not who most guys want as a wife and it certainly says a lot about the relationship we had in the first place and the possibility of her cheating in the future. Oh, and btw the guy never called her again. I'm sure he had a significant other and used my wife for a rodeo of all night sex when he told his significant other he was "out of town for business".


Nope....never said your values don't matter. You are entitled to them and she should've been honest so you could make an informed decision.

My objection lies solely in you framing her post relationship behavior as a respect of you issue. Once you dumped her she owed you nothing and it's quite presumptuous of you to think she should've considered you in any decision she made.

I truly don't understand why you'd care what an ex does.....when I divorced my ex I could've given a rat's ass who he screwed. He's no longer on my radar.

But once again she owed it to you to be honest, and her decision to lie was ****ty and disrespectful.


----------



## BigDigg

Trustless Marriage said:


> Any woman who, after two years of dating, jumps right into the sack with a stranger having all night unprotected sex is not who most guys want as a wife and it certainly says a lot about the relationship we had in the first place and the possibility of her cheating in the future. Oh, and btw the guy never called her again. I'm sure he had a significant other and used my wife for a rodeo of all night sex when he told his significant other he was "out of town for business".


You seem far more concerned on how your wife reflects on you and the 'standards' you have...than on anything related to the positives she brings to your life currently or the life you are building together. Be honest - how much of this is really about something she did vs. protecting your fragile ego? 

She can't take back what she did and she is who she is. If you can't live with it that's fine but do both of yourself a favor and just accept and move on. Better for both vs. making her jump through hoops for a standard you set that she evidently can't live up to.


----------



## Mr.Married

I think most of these cases boil down to the same thing: The dude gets all butt hurt that his old lady can go out and have another man quickly with overt sexuality. At this point he tries to frame it as something else besides the fact that he is butt hurt.


----------



## Mybabysgotit

Manner1067 said:


> 2. Any girl that will have a ONS is one argument away from having one while you are dating her, or even if you are married to her. - *LOL....are you even remotely serious with this statement? How in the world did you conclude this? I know my wife had at least a few ONS and guess what? We got into plenty of arguments and guess what? she didn't go out and have one while we were married....hmmm*
> 
> My wife had a few ONS when she was in her early years of college --without protection. It is a real sore spot with me, and I didn't learn about all of it until 15 years into our marriage. -* who gives a crap about what your spouse did 15 years ago. I had plenty of ONS including what I thought would be one with my now wife. I really don't care, or actually I hope that my wife had plenty of sex before me cause now she's stuck with me for the rest of her life. Whether she used a condom or not, I don't care cause I know she's disease free.*


----------



## Casual Observer

frusdil said:


> Um, you dumped her. Absolutely NONE of your business what she did or who she did it with, between the time you dumped her and then got back together. The only thing you can reasonably ask, is did she have unprotected sex with anyone (if she lies about that, shame on her). But how many, who, what they did or where is none of your business. Were I her I would have told you as much.
> 
> Would I do that? No, but I'm not her.
> 
> I see posts like this both here and on FB all the time from people, men and women, who left their partners/spouses yet whine that the partner/spouse has moved on "and it's only been 3 months". YOU DUMPED THEM. Wtf???


Ummm, no. He has every right to feel however he wants to feel. Unless he's been hiding such feelings, which I doubt, then she knows this guy is a jealous wreck, will always be suspicious, and yet she lies in order to continue the relationship??? This is on her, not him. You can't hide stuff like that in an LTR and think it's going to be OK, when you KNOW it runs counter to your partner's feelings/beliefs/whatever. Does not matter if they're rational or irrational. People who get into relationships in which they KNOW their partner is going to have big problems if he/she knew the truth, and lie about such things... nothing good will come from that. Things have a way of being found out. 

This is about people who shouldn't be together, first. And she knows they shouldn't.


----------



## Manner1067

OK, take yourself and your wife out of the picture for a moment

Would you tell your daughter it is perfectly fine to have a bunch of ONS ?

If your son came home with a girl from college, and you found out that girl had 10 ONS and slept around quite a bit before meeting your son, would you conclude that she was a good match for your son? 

Or let's say your son has to choose between two girls: one who has had only 1-2 partners, and another who slept with 20-30 guys, including ONS. Aside from this fact, the girls are pretty equivalent in terms of personality, attractiveness, and education. Which one would you want your son to marry?


----------



## QuietRiot

Trustless Marriage said:


> Thanks for your feedback but I think I just heard you say my moral and values do not matter. If you like men who have been around the block banging two tooth meth hookers every weekend and that doesn't bother you then by all means go for it. I won't judge you. I myself was looking for a certain standard of women. They are called Ladies (you might want to look that word up). Any woman who, after two years of dating, jumps right into the sack with a stranger having all night unprotected sex is not who most guys want as a wife and it certainly says a lot about the relationship we had in the first place and the possibility of her cheating in the future. Oh, and btw the guy never called her again. I'm sure he had a significant other and used my wife for a rodeo of all night sex when he told his significant other he was "out of town for business".


 Your post should say “Divorce Material?” Btw. 

I’d put money on what is really eating at you is that you knew she was a liar outside of this one situation and you still picked her. You’re missing the forest for the trees.


----------



## Mybabysgotit

Manner1067 said:


> OK, take yourself and your wife out of the picture for a moment
> 
> Would you tell your daughter it is perfectly fine to have a bunch of ONS ? *NO, I don't think many fathers would.*
> 
> If your son came home with a girl from college, and you found out that girl had 10 ONS and slept around quite a bit before meeting your son, would you conclude that she was a good match for your son?* All else being equal, No, however, there would be many additional factors that would be above that. *
> 
> Or let's say your son has to choose between two girls: one who has had only 1-2 partners, and another who slept with 20-30 guys, including ONS. Aside from this fact, the girls are pretty equivalent in terms of personality, attractiveness, and education. Which one would you want your son to marry? *Tough one. If you had asked me 10 years ago, I would say the one with 1-2 partners. If you were to ask me now, I would say the one with 20-30 partners. I'm almost 50 though and seen a lot more of life than 10-15 years ago. *


----------



## Manner1067

OK, take yourself and your wife out of the picture for a moment

Would you tell your daughter it is perfectly fine to have a bunch of ONS ?

If your son came home with a girl from college, and you found out that girl had 10 ONS and slept around quite a bit before meeting your son, would you conclude that she was a good match for your son?

Or let's say your son has to choose between two girls: one who has had only 1-2 partners, and another who slept with 20-30 guys, including ONS. Aside from this fact, the girls are pretty equivalent in terms of personality, attractiveness, and education. Which one would you want your son to marry?
OK, so you have completely different values and standards than I do. Fair enough.

Most guys have standards much closer to mine --you are an outlier case for sure. Telling girls that it is OK to sleep around without protection, whatever, doesn't do them any favors. They end up with STDs, pregnant, date-raped, and/or emotionally damaged. They have problems with pair-bonding later, and quality men may pass them up for marriage.

I saw a lot of this in my life, and the research confirms it. This isn't the free-love 60s


----------



## QuietRiot

Manner1067 said:


> OK, take yourself and your wife out of the picture for a moment
> 
> Would you tell your daughter it is perfectly fine to have a bunch of ONS ?
> 
> If your son came home with a girl from college, and you found out that girl had 10 ONS and slept around quite a bit before meeting your son, would you conclude that she was a good match for your son?
> 
> Or let's say your son has to choose between two girls: one who has had only 1-2 partners, and another who slept with 20-30 guys, including ONS. Aside from this fact, the girls are pretty equivalent in terms of personality, attractiveness, and education. Which one would you want your son to marry?


None of the above. 

Experience the world and don’t marry until you’re 30. Marry a woman, not a girl. That’s my advice.


----------



## Casual Observer

QuietRiot said:


> None of the above.
> 
> Experience the world and don’t marry until you’re 30. Marry a woman, not a girl. That’s my advice.


That's one way to do it, for sure. Totally reasonable perspective. For others, there's that shared experience of growing up (or apart!) together, through a period of time in which we go through a lot of change. That's an amazing time in our lives. Those are memories from their early marriage years that many would never want to have missed out on. 

Many. Not all. Maybe even less than half. But I think there's a different take on things when you go into marriage with the idea that it is truly about the worse, the sickness, not just the better and the health. How you persevere and grow through the tough times. How you adapt. Once you get past 30, you're probably not adapting too much, you're looking for something that's fully compatible and test-driven and should work out fine. 

Different options for different people.


----------



## Trustless Marriage

QuietRiot said:


> Your post should say “Divorce Material?” Btw.
> 
> I’d put money on what is really eating at you is that you knew she was a liar outside of this one situation and you still picked her. You’re missing the forest for the trees.


How much money are you putting down? Lol. Just the opposite. I always thought she was honest. Nothing indicated she had lied to me ever. In fact this was only one lie - once she spilled the beans I found out exactly how many times she lied and she continued to lie about the lies. Trickle truth - heard of it? I've been through a lot - all because she was embarrassed and thought she could get away with it I guess.


----------



## Affaircare

@Trustless Marriage ,

Let's summarize:

1) Once you dump a person, it is no longer your business who they sleep with, how quickly they sleep with someone, or how many they sleep with. You dumped them. Dumped = not part of your life anymore. So it's also not a reflection on you or a respect or disrespect of you. It MIGHT be a reflection on her or lack of respect for herself...but it has nothing to do with you.

2) When you got back together with her afterward and *she lied*...THAT is the part that is a disrespect of you, because essentially the lie indicates that she is not mature enough to be transparently honest, AND her actions are saying to you that she doesn't believe you can handle the truth. So by lying, she showed you her lack of maturity and her disrespect of your ability to handle the truth in a healthy way.

Now, you are in the position of having made a commitment to someone, and after committing you found out about the lie. I'm not saying it was moral for her to have ONSs...I'm saying that having them reflected on her, not on you. I'm not saying that lying was moral...I'm saying that lying to you is the part that was disrespectful to you. And since you didn't know of the lie, you didn't know about this particular sign that she is an immature person who does not respect you. There may have been other red flags that you chose to ignore--I don't know--but relating to this one event alone, I would say she is not good marriage material at this time.

The thing I would ask you is this: are you? Are you mature? Are you healthy in your responses? See...you can not control her, fix her, make her behave any certain way, nothing. If she is actually immoral in her heart, she will behave that way no matter what you say or do. The only person you CAN control is YOU. So you made a commitment to a person whom you discovered is not commitment material. Only YOU can decide if she may grow as a person and become more mature and more wise...or if she is the kind of person who is unwilling/unable to look at themselves and do the work to grow in wisdom and mental health. If she doesn't seem like someone who can admit they are wrong and "look at the man in the mirror"--you may have made an unwise decision to commit. And if that is your determination, continuing a bad decision is not a wise thing to do. End it. On the other hand, if your determination is that she is overall a generally moral and good person who's just pretty immature, it would be equally viable to just accept that she may need some time to "grow up" and give her that time. After all, your commitment was "...until death parts us" and part of the crucible of marriage is giving a partner the safe place to grow.


----------



## Trustless Marriage

Mr.Married said:


> I think most of these cases boil down to the same thing: The dude gets all butt hurt that his old lady can go out and have another man quickly with overt sexuality. At this point he tries to frame it as something else besides the fact that he is butt hurt.


Just a suggestion but it you don't have anything meaningful to add to this or ANY conversation I don't think anyone is interested in what you have to say.


----------



## oldshirt

hinterdir said:


> If he doesn't want to be with a girl who is already screwing men just a couple of weeks after a break up.....then that is 100% his prerogative.
> Since the break up was still so fresh....if he only was willing to get back together if she hadn't already had sex.....his prerogative.
> If you don't have the same moral code as him....no one cares.
> 
> She lies and doesn't have the same sexual values or moral code as him.
> 
> Mismatch.


I’m not disagreeing and I clearly said in all my posts that it is his perogative whether to remain with her or not. 

My point is he was kind of a jerk for asking if she hooked up while they were split and he was simply hearing what he wanted to hear and was being self-serving when he bought her song and dance that she hadn’t. 

Newsflash: chicks lie about who and how many dudes they have hooked up with. They kind of have to because of the judgment and persecution they get for it. 

If he was actually concerned about STIs, he could have asked for an STI rest and been a big boy and used protection himself. 

Is it in his right to dump her if he doesn’t want to be with her anymore?? Sure. Everyone has that right.

But does he have the right to point fingers at her and judge her for getting with someone “too soon” when she was a single woman or the right to point fingers and judge when he’s basically using extortion in getting her to tell him what he wants to hear? I don’t think so. 

IMHO the mistake made here was her taking him back.


----------



## oldshirt

Manner1067 said:


> OK, take yourself and your wife out of the picture for a moment
> 
> Would you tell your daughter it is perfectly fine to have a bunch of ONS ?
> 
> If your son came home with a girl from college, and you found out that girl had 10 ONS and slept around quite a bit before meeting your son, would you conclude that she was a good match for your son?
> 
> Or let's say your son has to choose between two girls: one who has had only 1-2 partners, and another who slept with 20-30 guys, including ONS. Aside from this fact, the girls are pretty equivalent in terms of personality, attractiveness, and education. Which one would you want your son to marry?


From the information we are being given her, she only hooked up with one guy so arguments regarding 10 ONSs and getting with 20-30 guys is completely irrelevant to this scenario.


----------



## Lostinthought61

Have you approached divorce to her ?


----------



## oldshirt

Mr. Nail said:


> He told her what lie he needed to hear and she supplied it.


Very well stated.

And he believed what he wanted to believe.


----------



## Trustless Marriage

lifeistooshort said:


> Nope....never said your values don't matter. You are entitled to them and she should've been honest so you could make an informed decision.
> 
> My objection lies solely in you framing her post relationship behavior as a respect of you issue. Once you dumped her she owed you nothing and it's quite presumptuous of you to think she should've considered you in any decision she made.
> 
> I truly don't understand why you'd care what an ex does.....when I divorced my ex I could've given a rat's ass who he screwed. He's no longer on my radar.
> 
> But once again she owed it to you to be honest, and her decision to lie was ****ty and disrespectful.


I think you are missing the boat a bit though. The 4 weeks we were away ended up being a blip in the radar and she sold it to me as she was waiting for me to come back while we were broken up. Really? This is how you wait? In bed with other men? She was working full time and going to school at night. How in the hell do you have time to meet 2 new men within 2 weeks of being single after just getting out of a long 2 year relationship? That to me is being easy - no respect for herself or anything we had. Not only did I have enough respect for her to not go out and date but I just needed time being single again.


----------



## Torninhalf

So what do you want?


----------



## oldshirt

Trustless Marriage said:


> I think you are missing the boat a bit though. The 4 weeks we were away ended up being a blip in the radar and she sold it to me as she was waiting for me to come back while we were broken up. Really? This is how you wait? In bed with other men? She was working full time and going to school at night. How in the hell do you have time to meet 2 new men within 2 weeks of being single after just getting out of a long 2 year relationship? That to me is being easy - no respect for herself or anything we had. Not only did I have enough respect for her to not go out and date but I just needed time being single again.


The boat that was missed was you in thinking you had any say over what she did as a single woman. 

Sorry, one is either in an exclusive relationship or they are free and single.

That you chose to not date is on you and that was your choice.

You did not get to dictate to her whether she dated or not when split up - that is what breaking up is. You waive any rights to someone else’s sexuality. What she did with her jay-jay was her business and absolutely none of yours.

If you didn’t want her dating and getting with other dudes, perhaps it wasn’t the best choice to break up Now was it hmmm?? 

I’m guessing with your level of disgust and resentment that what actually took place is you were hoping to score with other chicks and struck out.

And I get the feeling you thought she would just be waiting anxiously for you to call. 

But none of that worked out the way you hoped.

It’s not really fair to hate on her that your break up plans didn’t go as you had hoped.


----------



## lifeistooshort

So why did you break up?


----------



## QuietRiot

Trustless Marriage said:


> How much money are you putting down? Lol. Just the opposite. I always thought she was honest. Nothing indicated she had lied to me ever. In fact this was only one lie - once she spilled the beans I found out exactly how many times she lied and she continued to lie about the lies. Trickle truth - heard of it? I've been through a lot - all because she was embarrassed and thought she could get away with it I guess.


I’ll put down at least my 2 cents. Lol 

Ok well if you actually have an honest and decent wife who banged two people while you were broken up, I’d say you are being pretty ridiculous. But, she did lie and she did lie about it being rape which is also ridiculous. 

She was given two options. Tell him the truth and not get married. Or lie and marry the guy she loved. She chose to lie. Then you find out and she lies again because she thinks you’ll divorce her. 

Make of it what you will, she didn’t cheat on you. She lied. That’s the only thing she did wrong. You are allowed to make any decision you want about the person you will marry and she didn’t give you full disclosure to do so. She did nothing wrong by having sex with them when she was single though, you’ve got to stop with the “I’ve been cheated on” because you haven’t.


----------



## MJJEAN

Trustless Marriage said:


> Any woman who, after two years of dating, jumps right into the sack with a stranger having all night unprotected sex is not who most guys want as a wife and it certainly says a lot about the relationship we had in the first place and the possibility of her cheating in the future.


How soon she had sex has NOTHING to do with you or your prior relationship. It had to do with her. She was young, single again, and there was no reason for her to sit home crying into a tub of ice cream when adventure awaits.

She was/is ok with casual sex and she enjoyed some casual sex. She wasn't in a relationship with anyone and didn't owe the memory of your previous relationship anything. What she DID owe you was the truth. You asked. She could have said it was none of your business, she could have told you the truth, but what she did was lie to you. That's the real issue. She lied and then she trickle truthed AFTER she had you locked down. She did that because she knew you wouldn't reconcile if you knew the truth, so she withheld the truth. That is the issue here. It's not that she had casual sex, it's that she lied to you for years about said casual sex.

Who she gets down n dirty with isn't relevant to whether or not you can trust your wife. What is relevant is she lied to you and that is what makes her not trustworthy and therefore not marriage material.



Trustless Marriage said:


> In fact this was only one lie - once she spilled the beans I found out exactly how many times she lied and she continued to lie about the lies.


In other words you have no idea what she's lied to you about. If she lied about this she's lied about other things.



Manner1067 said:


> Any girl that will have a ONS is one argument away from having one while you are dating her, or even if you are married to her.


I have had many ONS and many arguments with my husband of 21 years. Never cheated on him. Know plenty of other women who have also had their share of casual sex who met their husbands, got married, and never cheated, either. There is a huge difference between what a person will be inclined to do when they are free and have nothing to lose and what they will do when they are in a committed relationship and have something they value they could lose.

Conversely, I know women who were virgins upon marriage or who had only had one or two partners in committed relationships before marriage who cheated like it was their damn job.



Mr. Nail said:


> He told her what lie he needed to hear and she supplied it.


Which is her bad. She should have either said it was none of his business or told the truth. Lying was categorically wrong and robbed him of the chance to make an informed decision about who he would be in a romantic relationship with and later marry.




Manner1067 said:


> OK, take yourself and your wife out of the picture for a moment
> 
> Would you tell your daughter it is perfectly fine to have a bunch of ONS ?
> 
> If your son came home with a girl from college, and you found out that girl had 10 ONS and slept around quite a bit before meeting your son, would you conclude that she was a good match for your son?
> 
> Or let's say your son has to choose between two girls: one who has had only 1-2 partners, and another who slept with 20-30 guys, including ONS. Aside from this fact, the girls are pretty equivalent in terms of personality, attractiveness, and education. Which one would you want your son to marry?


Everything being equal, I'd definitely tell my son to date and marry the girl who has some experience, knows what she wants and what she doesn't want, and is presumably less likely to wonder what she missed out on and have an affair or leave to "find herself" ten or 20 years down the road. And I know this because I have had that conversation with my son and that is what I advised.


----------



## Diana7

Trustless Marriage said:


> I think you are missing the boat a bit though. The 4 weeks we were away ended up being a blip in the radar and she sold it to me as she was waiting for me to come back while we were broken up. Really? This is how you wait? In bed with other men? She was working full time and going to school at night. How in the hell do you have time to meet 2 new men within 2 weeks of being single after just getting out of a long 2 year relationship? That to me is being easy - no respect for herself or anything we had. Not only did I have enough respect for her to not go out and date but I just needed time being single again.


I think that what she did after such a long and presumably serious relationship when she literally waited just a few days till she had casual sex was a big red flag. Her lying about it was another one.


----------



## QuietRiot

Trustless Marriage said:


> I think you are missing the boat a bit though. The 4 weeks we were away ended up being a blip in the radar and she sold it to me as she was waiting for me to come back while we were broken up. Really? This is how you wait? In bed with other men? She was working full time and going to school at night. How in the hell do you have time to meet 2 new men within 2 weeks of being single after just getting out of a long 2 year relationship? That to me is being easy - no respect for herself or anything we had. Not only did I have enough respect for her to not go out and date but I just needed time being single again.


Listen. The girl loves you. She lied to stay with you and still does lie to stay with you. You say she isn’t a liar, so this is the only reason she would lie. If you can’t handle that she didn’t sit in a room pining away for you when you broke up (did you break up with her???) and went and tried out a few random guys, then divorce her. Don’t drag her through the mud for the rest of her life and make her feel like a ***** because she isn’t. 

She was being young and doing things that many people do when they hurt and just want to numb some pain. If you want to hang her up to burn on your righteous cross then divorce her and let her be!

You sound a bit controlling and aggressive about what she is supposed to do when SINGLE. If you don’t want a girl who has meaningless sex when she is SINGLE then divorce her and find someone else who has the same flawless history as you do. 

OR get over this and enjoy her as a wife who hasn’t cheated on you, forgive the lie, and appreciate all she does. Either way, let it the heck go!


----------



## QuietRiot

You guys I seriously feel like we are in the Friends episode with Ross... WE WERE ON A BREAK!!!!


----------



## Mr.Married

I’m still going with ...... butt hurt.


----------



## oldshirt

lifeistooshort said:


> So why did you break up?


I haven’t seen where he has said a word about why they broke up.

One would think if it was due to some kind of bad behavior or violation of some sort in her part, he would have said why in his opening post. 

But since he didn’t, one has to wonder whether she was actually the one that broke up with him, or he simply thought he’d try to get with some other chicks.... which didn’t work out obviously.


----------



## oldshirt

QuietRiot said:


> You guys I seriously feel like we are in the Friends episode with Ross... WE WERE ON A BREAK!!!!


Yeah but she got with another dude on the 15th. 

Everyone knows you have to wait until at least the 22nd to get with someone else after breaking up.


----------



## lifeistooshort

oldshirt said:


> I haven’t seen where he has said a word about why they broke up.
> 
> One would think if it was due to some kind of bad behavior or violation of some sort in her part, he would have said why in his opening post.
> 
> But since he didn’t, one has to wonder whether she was actually the one that broke up with him, or he simply thought he’d try to get with some other chicks.... which didn’t work out obviously.


That is a very good hypothesis.

Perhaps he will correct it if it is incorrect.


----------



## Manner1067

MJJEAN said:


> How soon she had sex has NOTHING to do with you or your prior relationship. It had to do with her. She was young, single again, and there was no reason for her to sit home crying into a tub of ice cream when adventure awaits.
> 
> She was/is ok with casual sex and she enjoyed some casual sex. She wasn't in a relationship with anyone and didn't owe the memory of your previous relationship anything. What she DID owe you was the truth. You asked. She could have said it was none of your business, she could have told you the truth, but what she did was lie to you. That's the real issue. She lied and then she trickle truthed AFTER she had you locked down. She did that because she knew you wouldn't reconcile if you knew the truth, so she withheld the truth. That is the issue here. It's not that she had casual sex, it's that she lied to you for years about said casual sex.
> 
> Who she gets down n dirty with isn't relevant to whether or not you can trust your wife. What is relevant is she lied to you and that is what makes her not trustworthy and therefore not marriage material.
> 
> 
> 
> In other words you have no idea what she's lied to you about. If she lied about this she's lied about other things.
> 
> 
> 
> I have had many ONS and many arguments with my husband of 21 years. Never cheated on him. Know plenty of other women who have also had their share of casual sex who met their husbands, got married, and never cheated, either. There is a huge difference between what a person will be inclined to do when they are free and have nothing to lose and what they will do when they are in a committed relationship and have something they value they could lose.
> 
> Conversely, I know women who were virgins upon marriage or who had only had one or two partners in committed relationships before marriage who cheated like it was their damn job.
> 
> 
> 
> Which is her bad. She should have either said it was none of his business or told the truth. Lying was categorically wrong and robbed him of the chance to make an informed decision about who he would be in a romantic relationship with and later marry.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everything being equal, I'd definitely tell my son to date and marry the girl who has some experience, knows what she wants and what she doesn't want, and is presumably less likely to wonder what she missed out on and have an affair or leave to "find herself" ten or 20 years down the road. And I know this because I have had that conversation with my son and that is what I advised.


I have some friends overseas, in places like Iran and India. When they visit me here in the states, and hear about, or see, the promiscuity, hookup culture, etc. they look at me and say

"what is wrong with your culture"?

What may seem natural to you regarding casual sex is most definitely not the norm in most places in the world. Now I am not trying to be preachy and get up on a high horse --I slept with women before I got married.

But the idea of casual sex/ONS was not something that interested me.

I mean, when you say you've had many ONS, how does that even happen? I can see 1-2, but lots? Frequently? Where were these people when I was in my teens and 20s?


----------



## oldshirt

They both have some culpability for the current situation they are in. 

Yes she technically lied when he asked if she had gotten with anyone else. 
I agree with @MJJEAN above, she should’ve told him it was none of his business and let him fill in his own blanks or told him she did and let him walk... he probably isn’t the right guy for her anyway if he dumps her for no reason and then wants her back,, but only if she sat at home by herself every night they were split. 

Then she also screwed up by letting the cat out of the bag. If you’re going to try to build a relationship on false pretenses, then at least put in the effort to keep the secret a secret to the grave. 

That was her boner and where she screwed up. 

He on the other hand allegedly broke up with her for no reason given and then told her he would only get back with her if she didnt get with anyone else.

He had absolutely no right to ask her what she did while broken up whatsoever. It was absolutely none of his business what she did after he allegedly broke up with her. 

If he was concerned about STIs he could have taken his own precautions and he could have asked for testing. 

And then after he told her what the right answer was to that inappropriate question, then he was naive and self-deluding enough to buy her song and dance. 

That’s where he screwed up.

They both dug this hole they are currently in. 

He can either crap or get off the pot. If he doesn’t want to stay married to her, the courthouse is just down the road and he can go file the papers and pay the fees.

Or they can bury the hatchet and chalk it up to each making some mistakes and doing some dumb stuff and putting it behind them and move forward.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Ha....considering that India is one of the most dangerous places in the world for women I could ask what is wrong with that culture.

If this is where you want to go why did you have sex outside of marriage? Maybe you should have saved yourself for something as special as marriage.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

I'm in the you were broke up it's none of your business camp. Does that mean it didn't hurt that she could run right out and sleep with someone? No and I've been there myself because I kind of assumed we'd be getting back together. But you can't assume anything once you cut somebody loose because people have different ways of working through being dumped.


----------



## ccpowerslave

I do not have any experience along these lines but reading this thread I have been thinking if she banged the other dude 4 times with questionable protection and then once the morning after maybe try to do 5x and 2x the morning after with zero protection.

I am almost serious (maybe).


----------



## oldshirt

Manner1067 said:


> I have some friends overseas, in places like Iran and India. When they visit me here in the states, and hear about, or see, the promiscuity, hookup culture, etc. they look at me and say
> 
> "what is wrong with your culture"?
> 
> What may seem natural to you regarding casual sex is most definitely not the norm in most places in the world. Now I am not trying to be preachy and get up on a high horse --I slept with women before I got married.
> 
> But the idea of casual sex/ONS was not something that interested me.
> 
> I mean, when you say you've had many ONS, how does that even happen? I can see 1-2, but lots? Frequently? Where were these people when I was in my teens and 20s?


So someone from a country that castrates men and douses women with gas and sets them on fire and has public executions and stonings wants to point fingers and ask what’s wrong with America???? 

Ok Akmed, maybe you should stay over there then if you can’t take the heat here.


----------



## frusdil

Casual Observer said:


> Ummm, no. *He has every right to feel however he wants to fee*l. Unless he's been hiding such feelings, which I doubt, then she knows this guy is a jealous wreck, will always be suspicious, and yet she lies in order to continue the relationship??? This is on her, not him. You can't hide stuff like that in an LTR and think it's going to be OK, when you KNOW it runs counter to your partner's feelings/beliefs/whatever. Does not matter if they're rational or irrational. People who get into relationships in which they KNOW their partner is going to have big problems if he/she knew the truth, and lie about such things... nothing good will come from that. Things have a way of being found out.
> 
> This is about people who shouldn't be together, first. And she knows they shouldn't.


I never said he wasn't. What I said was that after he dumped her, what she did, who she did it with or where is none of his business. And it isn't. He gave up the right to knowing when HE DUMPED HER.

I ALSO said that the only thing it is reasonable to ask is whether she had unprotected sex while they were apart, and shame on her for lying about it.

The ONLY issue here is her lying. She could bang a different bloke every night of the week for the whole 4 weeks apart and it'd still be none of his business. She DID NOT CHEAT.

Does that make his feelings that they aren't compatible invalid? Nope, because they clearly aren't. And he has every right to divorce her based on her lying.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

And based on the fact that he's too controlling for her.


----------



## Casual Observer

frusdil said:


> I never said he wasn't. What I said was that after he dumped her, what she did, who she did it with or where is none of his business. And it isn't. He gave up the right to knowing when HE DUMPED HER.
> 
> I ALSO said that the only thing it is reasonable to ask is whether she had unprotected sex while they were apart, and shame on her for lying about it.
> 
> The ONLY issue here is her lying. She could bang a different bloke every night of the week for the whole 4 weeks apart and it'd still be none of his business. She DID NOT CHEAT.
> 
> Does that make his feelings that they aren't compatible invalid? Nope, because they clearly aren't. And he has every right to divorce her based on her lying.


My problem is that she understands this guy, her husband, at one time her fiance, has some real issues with things she sees as being OK. People don't suddenly become like that overnight. I doubt he hid his weirdness from her. And if he tried, he wouldn't have succeeded. But she went ahead and married someone completely-inappropriate anyway. Perhaps we should ask OP why he thinks she married him? Perhaps he'd learn something if he asked his wife the same question! 

She had every right to see and do whatever she wanted when he took time off. OP even said something like she was waiting for HIM to come back to HER. What arrogant presumption on his part!!! Maybe some of what she did was acting out. But they should both know what each of them are made of, capable of, find appropriate. Their personal and marital boundaries. If she deliberately mislead him, that's not "marriage material" in the making. Likewise if he deliberately mislead her.

Having said all that, we're only hearing one side of the story.


----------



## Casual Observer

DownByTheRiver said:


> And based on the fact that he's too controlling for her.


But she's controlling him through deception. It's bad all around.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

You give up the right to ask those kind of questions when you dump somebody. we don't know anymore details except the affair but it sounds like they already weren't getting along so I don't know why he married her or why she married him.


----------



## BigDigg

Trustless Marriage said:


> missing the boat a bit though. The 4 weeks we were away ended up being a blip in the radar and she sold it to me as she was waiting for me to come back while we were broken up. Really? This is how you wait? In bed with other men?


Listen man...I'm actually not trying to be a **** here but help. You need to take a step back and consider that this is far more about you and your ego than it is about her and what she did way back when. It's the same reason that you added details about how many times they shagged and whether she enjoyed it or forced, whether it was an accident the condom came off, etc. Because it bothers you that she could be that way with someone other than you. And it's all mental gymnastics on your part to protect your ego by making this into some grand love test and delicious chastity morality stew fantasy. Because then and only then it's about her shortcomings and not the things you are really insecure about.

So you sign up on an internet site and ask a bunch of strangers if you should stay with a girl that could do such things and lie about it to protect your ego. Here's the thing you need to know to clear your mind of this fantasy world you live in...if you divorce her she's not going to wail and moan and repent and wait forever for you to come back. She's going to be sad, and then she's going to move on and eventually (2 weeks or more) find someone else. Because she can. And she should. She get's to try to be happy too and it's her life (not yours). But she chose you so you have a chance to keep this right if you want and can accept that she loves you for you and you are good enough. Your call of course and no internet strangers can make that for you.


----------



## Trustless Marriage

oldshirt said:


> The boat that was missed was you in thinking you had any say over what she did as a single woman.
> 
> Sorry, one is either in an exclusive relationship or they are free and single.
> 
> That you chose to not date is on you and that was your choice.
> 
> You did not get to dictate to her whether she dated or not when split up - that is what breaking up is. You waive any rights to someone else’s sexuality. What she did with her jay-jay was her business and absolutely none of yours.
> 
> If you didn’t want her dating and getting with other dudes, perhaps it wasn’t the best choice to break up Now was it hmmm??
> 
> I’m guessing with your level of disgust and resentment that what actually took place is you were hoping to score with other chicks and struck out.
> 
> And I get the feeling you thought she would just be waiting anxiously for you to call.
> 
> But none of that worked out the way you hoped.
> 
> It’s not really fair to hate on her that your break up plans didn’t go as you had hoped.


Actually it was my business. She asked ME to get back together. I gave her the conditions. She decided to lie. In fact when we first met she knew exactly who I was looking for and lied about 3/4 of her relationships and all the other one night stands she had. She would have known, even though she said she was hoping I came back, that she would have to lie to me again if she had a ONS. But I guess that ONS was more important or she is just a serial liar.

And no. I was not looking to score. She drove me mad to the point I just had to get away from her. I was just happy to be free for awhile away from the insanity.


----------



## Torninhalf

Trustless Marriage said:


> Actually it was my business. She asked ME to get back together. I gave her the conditions. She decided to lie. In fact when we first met she knew exactly who I was looking for and lied about 3/4 of her relationships and all the other one night stands she had. She would have known, even though she said she was hoping I came back, that she would have to lie to me again if she had a ONS. But I guess that ONS was more important or she is just a serial liar.
> 
> And no. I was not looking to score. She drove me mad to the point I just had to get away from her. I was just happy to be free for awhile away from the insanity.


So what exactly do you want? She did what she did, she can’t take it back.


----------



## Trustless Marriage

oldshirt said:


> I haven’t seen where he has said a word about why they broke up.
> 
> One would think if it was due to some kind of bad behavior or violation of some sort in her part, he would have said why in his opening post.
> 
> But since he didn’t, one has to wonder whether she was actually the one that broke up with him, or he simply thought he’d try to get with some other chicks.... which didn’t work out obviously.


There was something mentally wrong with her - she would go from depressed to maniac - up and down constantly. Doctor diagnosed her with bi-polar and gave her meds. This made things worst. Even her best friend was keeping her distance during this time. I couldn't take the madness any longer. That is why I left. I reject this as part of the reason of her poor judgements after we broke up because she also had a history of ONS's and sleeping with men on the first date. Of course all this came out AFTER I married her.


----------



## lifeistooshort

So why would you get back together with her if she drove you so mad you had to get away?


----------



## oldshirt

Trustless Marriage said:


> There was something mentally wrong with her - she would go from depressed to maniac - up and down constantly. Doctor diagnosed her with bi-polar and gave her meds. This made things worst. Even her best friend was keeping her distance during this time. I couldn't take the madness any longer. That is why I left. I reject this as part of the reason of her poor judgements after we broke up because she also had a history of ONS's and sleeping with men on the first date. Of course all this came out AFTER I married her.


This is still on you.

I have the feeling the reason for your post is you are more mad at yourself than at her.

You knowingly signed up for a crazy chick that you knew had mental issues, knew was promiscuous and knew had the ability to lie and be a chameleon to take whatever form you wanted to see at the time.

You’re not really mad at her for boffing some guy, you’re mad you got duped and fell for the sales pitch of a snake-oil saleswoman. 

She’s a psycho chick. She’ll go home with some dude from the bar for a night of wild porn sex and then she’ll keep her actual partner at arm’s length saying she’s been traumatized by the hot porn sex and can’t have sex with you because it’s triggering and brings flashbacks.

But if you try to leave, she’ll turn on the tears and waterworks 😭 and lure you back with some porn sex of your own along with declarations of undying love and devotion.

THAT IS WHAT CRAZY CHICKS DO!!

And if you do break it off, she will be having all-night porn sex with some other dude within a matter of days or week or two because again- ITS WHAT CRAZY CHICKS DO. 

You bought this train wreck and have the clear title for it.


----------



## Blondilocks

How long have you been married?


----------



## Trustless Marriage

DownByTheRiver said:


> I'm in the you were broke up it's none of your business camp. Does that mean it didn't hurt that she could run right out and sleep with someone? No and I've been there myself because I kind of assumed we'd be getting back together. But you can't assume anything once you cut somebody loose because people have different ways of working through being dumped.


I have to respectfully disagree with that camp  . It was actually my business. She asked ME to get back together. I then have the right to know the truth and she has the right to tell me the truth or remain silent. If you want to go out and act like an hooker by all means go for it (but at least get paid for it which she didn't). But don't come back to me, crying asking for forgiveness and then lie about all the immoral things you did while you were away. Take responsibility for your actions. She knew who I was and who I was looking for and she also knew she would have to lie to me again if she had another ONS.


----------



## Lostinthought61

when someone shows you who they really are, believe them, time to pick up and move on brother. Let her loose to find what ever she wants and you can move on with your life.


----------



## Trustless Marriage

oldshirt said:


> You knowingly signed up for a crazy chick that you knew had mental issues, knew was promiscuous and knew had the ability to lie and be a chameleon to take whatever form you wanted to see at the time.


Like I said before, I knew nothing about her promiscuous and her lying. This all came out after we married when she slipped up. We dated for 2 years prior to the breakup - most that time was great. It was only the end of the 2 years that we started to see some mental challenges.


----------



## GC1234

Trustless Marriage said:


> If you want to go out and act like an hooker by all means go for it (but at least get paid for it which she didn't).


This is incredibly demeaning and unnecessary. Honestly, with that kind of talk, I almost don't blame her one bit for doing what she did. She taught your a** a lesson. Serves you right!


----------



## oldshirt

Trustless Marriage said:


> Like I said before, I knew nothing about her promiscuous and her lying. This all came out after we married when she slipped up. We dated for 2 years prior to the breakup - most that time was great. It was only the end of the 2 years that we started to see some mental challenges.


Either way, you know now.

And realistically, you probably still only know a fraction. 

No one truly knows what all has gone on in someone else’s private life.

If she is bi-polar or some other personality disorder, there is a good chance you are only aware of the tip of the ice berg.


----------



## Trustless Marriage

GC1234 said:


> This is incredibly demeaning and unnecessary. Honestly, with that kind of talk, I almost don't blame her one bit for doing what she did. She taught your a** a lesson. Serves you right!


You are entitled to your own opinion but that is how I feel. Put the shoe on your foot. By the way I see it both ways - especially the players who use vulnerable women, take advantage of whatever situation a woman may be emotionally dealing with and using them for their own pleasure. Here my wife was thinking (her own words) "if she had sex with him that he would give her a chance" and in his mind he is thinking "I have all night to bust my nuts with this chick before I have to get back to my significant other". He never called her again.

In any event she has told me she will FINALLY tell me what was so horrible that evening and hopefully either way I get the answers I deserve and I will hopefully have the closure I need.


----------



## Trustless Marriage

oldshirt said:


> Either way, you know now.
> 
> And realistically, you probably still only know a fraction.
> 
> No one truly knows what all has gone on in someone else’s private life.
> 
> If she is bi-polar or some other personality disorder, there is a good chance you are only aware of the tip of the ice berg.


Agreed. She has hide so many things from me and trickle truthed everything to death that I no long believe anything she says. What did she think a marriage was based on? Lies? Lol


----------



## Blondilocks

So, when did you get married?


----------



## Trustless Marriage

lifeistooshort said:


> So why would you get back together with her if she drove you so mad you had to get away?


She promised she would change.


----------



## Blondilocks

Why won't you state how long you have been married?


----------



## Trustless Marriage

Torninhalf said:


> So what exactly do you want? She did what she did, she can’t take it back.


I want to truth. I told her I would have more respect for you at this point if you just said "you left me, I was horny and I banged the first guy I found". Instead, she claims it was the worst night she ever had yet she recently admitted she was considering dating this guy and also admitted she decided to have sex with him and give him a chance. So when did the worst night ever come in that she claimed from the beginning? Was it after romp #1? Romp #2? Romp #3? Romp #4? Those are the holes that don't up. Just stop hiding things, tell me the truth and at least this chapter is closed.


----------



## Blondilocks

OK, this is going to turn into one of those "my wife lied 40 years ago and I can't get over it. Boo-hoo, woe is me" threads. Next.


----------



## GC1234

Trustless Marriage said:


> You are entitled to your own opinion but that is how I feel. Put the shoe on your foot. By the way I see it both ways - especially the players who use vulnerable women, take advantage of whatever situation a woman may be emotionally dealing with and using them for their own pleasure. Here my wife was thinking (her own words) "if she had sex with him that he would give her a chance" and in his mind he is thinking "I have all night to bust my nuts with this chick before I have to get back to my significant other". He never called her again.
> 
> In any event she has told me she will FINALLY tell me what was so horrible that evening and hopefully either way I get the answers I deserve and I will hopefully have the closure I need.


I never said you were wrong for feeling as you do. I can understand it. What I take issue with is you saying that she should have taken money for acting like a prostitute, and you seeing nothing wrong with that. 

Granted, it's not what you would expect an ex girlfriend to do so quickly, BUT, she was single, and frankly, during that time, she didn't owe you any explanation. 

She should have had the guts to say that from the get go, rather than lie to you. So I'm not okay with either of her actions in that regard. But to compare her to a prostitute, to me, it takes away from your other fair and valid points. That's all I'm pointing out. 

If it's truly something you can't bear to deal with, and I can understand THAT, then go. Divorce. It really is that simple. You don't need to lower yourself and disparage them. Move on, and that's it.


----------



## oldshirt

Trustless Marriage said:


> Agreed. She has hide so many things from me and trickle truthed everything to death that I no long believe anything she says. What did she think a marriage was based on? Lies? Lol


Actually yes. 

Many people with personality disorders and various mental illnesses do present a completely fictitious facade and try to base a relationship on the false character that they have created. 

Many believe (or actually know) that someone won’t have them the way they really are (or believe themselves to be) and so they create a false persona on which to base an otherwise impossible relationship.

So in that sense, yes, she may have attempted to base the relationship on lies and wasn’t able to maintain frame forever.


----------



## MJJEAN

QuietRiot said:


> She lied to stay with you and still does lie to stay with you. You say she isn’t a liar, so this is the only reason she would lie.


You may have whacked one of my pet peeves.

I read all the time about people who claim to be bi-curious and then talk about the 8 same sex encounters they've had. Homie, after the first encounter or two you stopped being bi-curious and are just bisexual!

This is the same thing. You can't claim someone isn't a liar and then talk about all of their lies. She's not lie-curious, she's a liar.



Manner1067 said:


> But the idea of casual sex/ONS was not something that interested me.
> 
> I mean, when you say you've had many ONS, how does that even happen? I can see 1-2, but lots? Frequently? Where were these people when I was in my teens and 20s?


I won't comment on your friend, but I will say that many place in the world are utterly backwards to my thinking and I question their social repression. I am glad to live where I can freely express my sexuality.

How do ONS happen? They just...do. Go out to a party or a bar or festival, meet someone you're attracted to, do some flirting, maybe some making out, go to a private place, have sex, and there you have it.

Frequently? Depends on your definition of frequent. I had 32 sexual partners over a span of 9 years between 16 and 25, which was when I met my husband. 1 I was engaged to, 1 I married, 4 relationships, and the rest were a mix of FWB and ONS until I met my DH, who has been my only sex partner for over 20 years.

Where were people like me in your teens and 20's? Either you weren't giving off the open to it vibe or you were at the wrong parties, my friend.



oldshirt said:


> Yes she technically lied when he asked if she had gotten with anyone else.
> I agree with @MJJEAN above, she should’ve told him it was none of his business and let him fill in his own blanks or told him she did and let him walk...* he probably isn’t the right guy for her anyway *if he dumps her for no reason and then wants her back,, but only if she sat at home by herself every night they were split.


I don't think a couple has to have the same views to the letter. For example, both DH and I are fine with casual sex. However, I am not ok with group sex. No judgement, I can see the sensual appeal, but something about it just personally squicks me out. DH in his past had group sex many times both within a relationship and while single. I decided that, since we were so into each other and very compatible in general, this small difference in view and history was not a dealbreaker.

The huge difference is that my DH was up front and honest about his sexual history very early on and so was I. We gave each other the chance to decide if our pasts were dealbreakers or not.




oldshirt said:


> Then she also screwed up by letting the cat out of the bag. If you’re going to try to build a relationship on false pretenses, then at least put in the effort to keep the secret a secret to the grave.


So few are actually capable of that, though, which is why it's just better to be honest and take whatever lumps come your way. My momma always told me not to do a damn thing I wouldn't want people to know about and be honest if asked because the truth comes out eventually. I can only imagine how much drama I avoided by following that advice.



oldshirt said:


> He had absolutely no right to ask her what she did while broken up whatsoever. It was absolutely none of his business what she did after he allegedly broke up with her.


I disagree. He has every right to ask his partner her sexual history if that's something that concerns him. And his partner has every right to tell him she isn't going to give him that information.



Casual Observer said:


> My problem is that she understands this guy, her husband, at one time her fiance, has some real issues with things she sees as being OK. People don't suddenly become like that overnight. I doubt he hid his weirdness from her. And if he tried, he wouldn't have succeeded. *But she went ahead and married someone completely-inappropriate anyway.*


Maybe that's why she's being more honest now. Maybe she sees they aren't compatible and is sabotaging the relationship with the truth.



Trustless Marriage said:


> Actually it was my business. She asked ME to get back together. I gave her the conditions. She decided to lie. In fact when we first met she knew exactly who I was looking for and lied about 3/4 of her relationships and all the other one night stands she had. She would have known, even though she said she was hoping I came back, that she would have to lie to me again if she had a ONS. But I guess that ONS was more important or she is just a serial liar.


Yes, my friend, you're married to a serial liar. She has lied to you for years about her sexual adventures and there is every reason to think she has lied about other things, as well. After all, she's learned that she can get away with lying and that it's easier than possibly causing friction with the truth.



Trustless Marriage said:


> There was something mentally wrong with her - she would go from depressed to maniac - up and down constantly. Doctor diagnosed her with bi-polar and gave her meds.


I come from a long line of bi-polar women and am one, myself. At no point does bi-polar disorder cause one to be unable to tell right from wrong. Everyone knows lying is wrong. Her mental illness isn't an excuse.



Trustless Marriage said:


> Of course all this came out AFTER I married her.


You can un-marry her, ya know.


----------



## Manner1067

MJJEAN said:


> You may have whacked one of my pet peeves.
> 
> I read all the time about people who claim to be bi-curious and then talk about the 8 same sex encounters they've had. Homie, after the first encounter or two you stopped being bi-curious and are just bisexual!
> 
> This is the same thing. You can't claim someone isn't a liar and then talk about all of their lies. She's not lie-curious, she's a liar.
> 
> 
> I won't comment on your friend, but I will say that many place in the world are utterly backwards to my thinking and I question their social repression. I am glad to live where I can freely express my sexuality.
> 
> How do ONS happen? They just...do. Go out to a party or a bar or festival, meet someone you're attracted to, do some flirting, maybe some making out, go to a private place, have sex, and there you have it.
> 
> Frequently? Depends on your definition of frequent. I had 32 sexual partners over a span of 9 years between 16 and 25, which was when I met my husband. 1 I was engaged to, 1 I married, 4 relationships, and the rest were a mix of FWB and ONS until I met my DH, who has been my only sex partner for over 20 years.
> 
> Where were people like me in your teens and 20's? Either you weren't giving off the open to it vibe or you were at the wrong parties, my friend.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think a couple has to have the same views to the letter. For example, both DH and I are fine with casual sex. However, I am not ok with group sex. No judgement, I can see the sensual appeal, but something about it just personally squicks me out. DH in his past had group sex many times both within a relationship and while single. I decided that, since we were so into each other and very compatible in general, this small difference in view and history was not a dealbreaker.
> 
> The huge difference is that my DH was up front and honest about his sexual history very early on and so was I. We gave each other the chance to decide if our pasts were dealbreakers or not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So few are actually capable of that, though, which is why it's just better to be honest and take whatever lumps come your way. My momma always told me not to do a damn thing I wouldn't want people to know about and be honest if asked because the truth comes out eventually. I can only imagine how much drama I avoided by following that advice.
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree. He has every right to ask his partner her sexual history if that's something that concerns him. And his partner has every right to tell him she isn't going to give him that information.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe that's why she's being more honest now. Maybe she sees they aren't compatible and is sabotaging the relationship with the truth.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, my friend, you're married to a serial liar. She has lied to you for years about her sexual adventures and there is every reason to think she has lied about other things, as well. After all, she's learned that she can get away with lying and that it's easier than possibly causing friction with the truth.
> 
> 
> 
> I come from a long line of bi-polar women and am one, myself. At no point does bi-polar disorder cause one to be unable to tell right from wrong. Everyone knows lying is wrong. Her mental illness isn't an excuse.
> 
> 
> 
> You can un-marry her, ya know.


As to the 32 partners, I feel like a monk at this point. I had 7 sex partners before marriage. None were ONS or FWBs.

Now there were a couple instances of fooling around (oral) with girls that were not intended to be girlfriends, but ...

Having 32 within 9 years is mind-blowing to me, and it demonstrates the much greater access to sex that women have --and take advantage of. I am not casting judgment on you about this, as everyone is entitled to their own experiences with other, consenting adults

but I got into a bit of a heated discussion with my wife about some of this stuff last night after a few drinks (never a good idea). My issues were

1. She had "several" ONS in college, whatever that means.
2. Her N count is like 15, which is double mine. Now granted, that was over a 14 year period.
3. Lots of unprotected sex and an abortion at 19
4. When we started dating, it wasn't until the 6-7th date, and like 6 weeks in, before we had sex. Now I find out that she jumped into bed with other dudes on the same night. 

I only knew about some of this stuff before marriage, and was quite frankly afraid to ask about the rest.

Now how did I feel about all this as a guy? I felt disappointed and depressed --part of me says I deserved better. I feel a bit humiliated and have a sense of FOMO --I was trying to be the good guy, treat women right, have LTRs, etc., while everyone else was piping down girls left and right with no intention of relationships. One guy on the web says "there are no good girls. There are just girls who haven't been caught".

Now the rational and mature side of me says "it's in the past, let it go. Marriage is good--she is an excellent wife and mother". And I have no intention of unloading on her about this stuff or having it impact my marriage.

Some guys have no issue with this stuff, but guys like me do. It isn't something that is going to go away, and it is part of the reason I have a very jaded and black-pilled opinion of relationships in our current culture


----------



## Torninhalf

Trustless Marriage said:


> I want to truth. I told her I would have more respect for you at this point if you just said "you left me, I was horny and I banged the first guy I found". Instead, she claims it was the worst night she ever had yet she recently admitted she was considering dating this guy and also admitted she decided to have sex with him and give him a chance. So when did the worst night ever come in that she claimed from the beginning? Was it after romp #1? Romp #2? Romp #3? Romp #4? Those are the holes that don't up. Just stop hiding things, tell me the truth and at least this chapter is closed.


What difference does it make at this point? Seriously? She tells you everything you want to hear...you are 100 percent right about her...then what? All the hurt goes away and everything is sunshine and roses? What is the end game for you?


----------



## Trustless Marriage

GC1234 said:


> She should have had the guts to say that from the get go, rather than lie to you. So I'm not okay with either of her actions in that regard. But to compare her to a prostitute, to me, it takes away from your other fair and valid points. That's all I'm pointing out.


That was more of a joke than anything but I guess you weren't laughing  I can do two things - try and find humor in it and laugh about it or go into deep depression.


----------



## Lostinthought61

@Torninhalf is exactly correct.....you know the old verse "you shall know the truth and the truth will set you free" but i don't see that with you, i do not think you could ever look at her again the same way, if you stay your marriage dynamics will change quite a bit.


----------



## GC1234

Trustless Marriage said:


> That was more of a joke than anything but I guess you weren't laughing  I can do two things - try and find humor in it and laugh about it or go into deep depression.


Sometimes it's hard to know what's a joke and what is not. Things get lost in translation with the use of technology. My fault for misunderstanding. It's just that some people really do think like that. So, yes, you can laugh about it, lol. But be proactive. Find out the truth, if she's not willing to share the entirety of it, then I think you know, your marriage does not have a strong foundation.


----------



## Mr.Married

One of the most common things you see around these parts is “The need to know EVERYTHING”. Most people never get to the point that this infatuation is fully satisfied. A lot of them eventually find satisfaction in that they are fine with not caring anymore. You need to get to that point as fast as you can. 

I suspect in many cases the betrayed may actually have it all but refuses to believe that everything has been told


----------



## QuietRiot

Trustless Marriage said:


> I want to truth. I told her I would have more respect for you at this point if you just said "you left me, I was horny and I banged the first guy I found". Instead, she claims it was the worst night she ever had yet she recently admitted she was considering dating this guy and also admitted she decided to have sex with him and give him a chance. So when did the worst night ever come in that she claimed from the beginning? Was it after romp #1? Romp #2? Romp #3? Romp #4? Those are the holes that don't up. Just stop hiding things, tell me the truth and at least this chapter is closed.


Here is the truth. You broke up with her, she got attention from other guys while drinking and she thought, why the hell not? And she probably thought, maybe this guy will bang the thought of my ex boyfriend out of my head for a night. 

She isn’t a person who cares about how many notches are on her bed post and if the person she is screwing loves her. She isn’t. You want a rabbit to be a duck. It’s not going to happen. That’s who you are married to. 

Most young women aren’t assertive. Instead of being shamed and feeling like an unpaid wh0r* by the guy she loves, she decided to lie. There ya go. 

I don’t think the historical promiscuity has anything to do with the caliber of wife she can be. But the lying certainly could. You say she’s not a liar, yet say later that she’s lied the whole time, even before the breakup happened. Soooo.... I still think you are focusing on the wrong thing.


----------



## Trustless Marriage

QuietRiot said:


> Here is the truth. You broke up with her, she got attention from other guys while drinking and she thought, why the hell not? And she probably thought, maybe this guy will bang the thought of my ex boyfriend out of my head for a night.
> 
> She isn’t a person who cares about how many notches are on her bed post and if the person she is screwing loves her. She isn’t. You want a rabbit to be a duck. It’s not going to happen. That’s who you are married to.
> 
> Most young women aren’t assertive. Instead of being shamed and feeling like an unpaid wh0r* by the guy she loves, she decided to lie. There ya go.
> 
> I don’t think the historical promiscuity has anything to do with the caliber of wife she can be. But the lying certainly could. You say she’s not a liar, yet say later that she’s lied the whole time, even before the breakup happened. Soooo.... I still think you are focusing on the wrong thing.


She showed no indication that she could lie to me until she slipped up. But I tend to agree with you. Now I just want to hear it out of her mouth.


----------



## Trustless Marriage

Lostinthought61 said:


> @Torninhalf is exactly correct.....you know the old verse "you shall know the truth and the truth will set you free" but i don't see that with you, i do not think you could ever look at her again the same way, if you stay your marriage dynamics will change quite a bit.


I will have to agree with you. But one step at a time and only time will tell


----------



## Trustless Marriage

Torninhalf said:


> What difference does it make at this point? Seriously? She tells you everything you want to hear...you are 100 percent right about her...then what? All the hurt goes away and everything is sunshine and roses? What is the end game for you?


The difference is that the Foundation of Trust cannot be rebuilt until the truth is told. Right now it's in shambles. The end game is I need to know the truth and then I need to understand why. Whether or not I will be accepting (probably not) only then can any type of rebuilding take place.


----------



## Torninhalf

Trustless Marriage said:


> The difference is that the Foundation of Trust cannot be rebuilt until the truth is told. Right now it's in shambles. The end game is I need to know the truth and then I need to understand why. Whether or not I will be accepting (probably not) only then can any type of rebuilding take place.


Well I am here to tell you from experience that will just not happen. There will never be a reason why that will be acceptable to you. Never. She also will never tell the truth. They just don’t. If you want to move forward know those 2 things and work from there.


----------



## MJJEAN

Manner1067 said:


> Having 32 within 9 years is mind-blowing to me, and it demonstrates the much greater access to sex that women have --and take advantage of.


I have always had a lot of guy friends because A) I lived in a neighborhood that was mostly boys B) my dad worked construction and our relatives were bikers, so I had a plethora of "uncles" who doted on me and taught me stuff and C) most of my passions are typically male pursuits. The vast majority of my guy friends I'd known since Jr High, High School, or met just after turning 18 and a LOT of them had verifiable numbers that blow mine out of the water.

I think we all just assumed that the partiers were there to party regardless of gender and the fella's (rightly) figured the ladies were there for the same reason they were. To laugh, talk, dance, be social, get a buzz, and get laid. So they went with "fortune favors the bold" and were bold.



Manner1067 said:


> I only knew about some of this stuff before marriage, and was quite frankly afraid to ask about the rest.


Sometimes it's best to just accept you know enough and don't need to know more.



Manner1067 said:


> I felt disappointed and depressed --part of me says I deserved better. I feel a bit humiliated and have a sense of FOMO


Deserved better than what? You seem to be happily married to a good woman. What better is there than that!?!? If I were a man I would prefer a partner who had been around the block a few times and had enough experience to know what they really want and what they really need vs what they thought they wanted and needed. I also think some sexual adventures are best had _before _getting into a serious relationship.

Humiliated why?

FOMO is a path that leads to ruin. You can't change the past and you can't have those experiences now because that stage of life has come and gone. At best, you could go out and have casual sex, but it wouldn't be the same as it would have been back then. 



Manner1067 said:


> I was trying to be the good guy, treat women right, have LTRs, etc., while everyone else was piping down girls left and right with no intention of relationships.


So you never considered many of those women were out looking to enjoy some charming no strings male companionship and you were operating under the misapprehension that women don't have the same desire for sexual adventures men do.



Manner1067 said:


> One guy on the web says "there are no good girls. There are just girls who haven't been caught".


I just can't get this kind of thinking. "Good girls". What's a "good girl" and how does this in any way relate to her sexual history? Hint: It doesn't. There is nothing "bad" or "wrong" or "flawed" about a woman who enjoys her sexuality. A woman's body count isn't nearly the cause for concern that her, say, lying or being selfish and manipulative and/or lazy would be.



Manner1067 said:


> it is part of the reason I have a very jaded and black-pilled opinion of relationships in our current culture


I also don't understand this. Casual sex and "hook-up" culture isn't anything new. I'm in my mid-40's and hooking up for a night or few was definitely a common thing when I was young. My mom had some stories about her time out on the prowl with her friends in the late 60's and into the 70's. Hell, my exFIL and exMIL met in the early 70's because MIL and her buddies jumped in a car to take a trip to the coast specifically to spend a week getting laid.


----------



## MJJEAN

Trustless Marriage said:


> The end game is I need to know the truth and then I need to understand why.


You know why. She did it for the same reasons everyone else does. She was young, single, horny, and wanted to get laid.



Torninhalf said:


> Well I am here to tell you from experience that will just not happen. There will never be a reason why that will be acceptable to you. Never.


Yes, this.

Trustless, you aren't the kind of person who has casual sex, seem to disapprove of casual sex, and I don't think anything she says will ever help you.


----------



## lifeistooshort

I'm not unsympathetic to your view. I personally would not prefer a guy with a promiscuous past, though I would consider it if I otherwise liked him and was convinced he was not that person anymore. And it would absolutely have to be behind him.....I'm very jaded from the fact that my ex talked about old gf's regularly in wildly inappropriate ways. I often felt like one in a long line and that he wasn't fully present with me.

I completely understand the lying part and I would have a problem with that too. You form a certain image of your partner and when you find out that image is wrong it can really flip you upside down. ....particularly when they flat out lie.

But at this point you have to think carefully about what you end goal is. You already know she's lying so the way I see it here are your options:

1. Let it go and make peace with it.
2. If you just want to form a more accurate image of her and want truth you'll have to create a safe place for her to do that. I know it sounds like I'm putting this all on you but realistically she has no incentive to come clean. She might though if it was phrased in a way that conveyed that you want truth and to understand her better.
3. Divorce her if you can't make peace with it

Where would you lean?

I don't want to get too much into my own story but my ex kept an ex gf on the side our entire 13 year relationship. I only had concrete proof of some level of emotional affair but given that he lied about absolutely everything and changed his story multiple times I assume there's a lot more to it. He also dropped that his first thought when confronted was OMG what does she know.

At a certain point I accepted that he'd never come clean because there was no incentive for him. I divorced him for a number of reasons beyond that but I understood that if I remained with him I'd probably never get the truth. Possibly if I assured him I wasn't going anywhere, but that would've been a lie and he was too image conscious and conflict avoidant to admit what he didn't have to. And he wasn't a good hb.

So where do you lean?


----------



## Manner1067

MJJEAN said:


> I have always had a lot of guy friends because A) I lived in a neighborhood that was mostly boys B) my dad worked construction and our relatives were bikers, so I had a plethora of "uncles" who doted on me and taught me stuff and C) most of my passions are typically male pursuits. The vast majority of my guy friends I'd known since Jr High, High School, or met just after turning 18 and a LOT of them had verifiable numbers that blow mine out of the water.
> 
> I think we all just assumed that the partiers were there to party regardless of gender and the fella's (rightly) figured the ladies were there for the same reason they were. To laugh, talk, dance, be social, get a buzz, and get laid. So they went with "fortune favors the bold" and were bold.
> 
> 
> 
> Sometimes it's best to just accept you know enough and don't need to know more.
> 
> 
> 
> Deserved better than what? You seem to be happily married to a good woman. What better is there than that!?!? If I were a man I would prefer a partner who had been around the block a few times and had enough experience to know what they really want and what they really need vs what they thought they wanted and needed. I also think some sexual adventures are best had _before _getting into a serious relationship.
> 
> Humiliated why?
> 
> FOMO is a path that leads to ruin. You can't change the past and you can't have those experiences now because that stage of life has come and gone. At best, you could go out and have casual sex, but it wouldn't be the same as it would have been back then.
> 
> 
> 
> So you never considered many of those women were out looking to enjoy some charming no strings male companionship and you were operating under the misapprehension that women don't have the same desire for sexual adventures men do.
> 
> 
> 
> I just can't get this kind of thinking. "Good girls". What's a "good girl" and how does this in any way relate to her sexual history? Hint: It doesn't. There is nothing "bad" or "wrong" or "flawed" about a woman who enjoys her sexuality. A woman's body count isn't nearly the cause for concern that her, say, lying or being selfish and manipulative and/or lazy would be.
> 
> 
> 
> I also don't understand this. Casual sex and "hook-up" culture isn't anything new. I'm in my mid-40's and hooking up for a night or few was definitely a common thing when I was young. My mom had some stories about her time out on the prowl with her friends in the late 60's and into the 70's. Hell, my exFIL and exMIL met in the early 70's because MIL and her buddies jumped in a car to take a trip to the coast specifically to spend a week getting laid.


I understand what you are saying, and I am not casting judgment

but ...

for people like me,companionship, connection, meaning, sex, authenticity, all that stuff goes together. I want real relationships that involve risk, not easy hookups that involve treating people like objects.

it isn't even because I am some romantic --I'm just a guy that doesn't like fake, shallow things. 

and can a couple have a meaningful, yet very short encounter? Sure. It happens. But you and I know that is not how it normally plays out.

we all need to have hedonistic sexual adventures? Give me one girl who is sweet and the apple of my eye, and I will hand back every jaded sex goddess right back to you. I'd rather go out hiking in the woods with a girl I love than spend 20 nights banging porn stars or hotties from some nightclub.

but that is how I roll


----------



## MJJEAN

Manner1067 said:


> for people like me,companionship, connection, meaning, sex, authenticity, all that stuff goes together. I want real relationships that involve risk, not easy hookups that involve treating people like objects.
> 
> it isn't even because I am some romantic --I'm just a guy that doesn't like fake, shallow things.


Say you were really into tennis. You go out to a festival or party and meet someone who is attractive, fun to talk to, and who likes tennis, too. They invite you to spend the afternoon playing tennis with them, so you accept. Why not? You enjoy this persons company, they seem like a good tennis player, and you both want to play. Does that sound somehow shallow to you? Fake? Not at all. It's just a couple of people who met, had a good vibe, and spent some time together enjoying each others company. Nothing inauthentic about it.

Say you have a work friend, female, you know is having a hard time. So you get her a Valentines Day card to cheer her up. You write a nice message inside saying something kind and encouraging, maybe remind her she's a great person and is appreciated, yadda yadda.

You then get another Valentines Day card for your SO. You also write a message inside. That message is romantic, talks of loving feelings, etc. etc.

They are both Valentines Day cards, but the meaning behind them is very different. That's casual sex vs sex in a relationship. The act may be the same, but the meaning changes.



Manner1067 said:


> we all need to have hedonistic sexual adventures? Give me one girl who is sweet and the apple of my eye, and I will hand back every jaded sex goddess right back to you. I'd rather go out hiking in the woods with a girl I love than spend 20 nights banging porn stars or hotties from some nightclub.


You act like it's a choice between the two. I, personally, went the route of having hedonistic adventures while seeking my "the one". 

Hedonistic adventure and a nice girl to walk through the wilderness with aren't mutually exclusive. Trust me, one can absolutely have both. I know a number of very sweet and amazing women who had fun catting around before they found their life partners.


----------



## Gabriel

Trustless Marriage said:


> The difference is that the Foundation of Trust cannot be rebuilt until the truth is told. Right now it's in shambles. The end game is I need to know the truth and then I need to understand why. Whether or not I will be accepting (probably not) only then can any type of rebuilding take place.


Because someone very close to me is bipolar, I did a lot of research on it. Manic states often lead to promiscuity, reckless spending, etc. It's a common condition of the disorder. So this behavior tracks.

She will need to get this under control to have a healthy marriage. Vraylar worked wonders for my person.

The lying is obviously a big concern. She likely doesn't feel safe from the consequences of full truth. Because of this, she's reluctant to be honest about this. You'll have to "pretend" there are no consequences or at least ones she can live with....or you likely won't get full truth from her.


----------



## Blondilocks

lifeistooshort said:


> I'm very jaded from the fact that my ex talked about old gf's regularly in wildly inappropriate ways. I often felt like one in a long line and that he wasn't fully present with me.


When did you realize that your ex was an insecure, lying blowhard? He knew you were the best thing that ever happened to him - he just didn't want you to know.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Blondilocks said:


> When did you realize that your ex was an insecure, lying blowhard? He knew you were the best thing that ever happened to him - he just didn't want you to know.


Sadly it took longer then it should have 😁

It's all good though....I upgraded to a 10 years younger model 😀


----------



## Trustless Marriage

I finally had a chance to talk to my wife about what was so awful that night (and a lot of other stuff). She continues to say it's because he was there and he didn't want him there - that was what was so horrible. She told him no in bed and because he was persistent she thought she needed to give him a chance even though she just wanted him to leave. She slept naked with him all night but claims she kept hoping he would just leave her alone (they had sex 4 different times). And when he never called her back it's only then she felt she was used even though this has happened many times before to her so I don't get it. She claims she was going to counseling for 2 years prior to this to try and understand why she was letting guys use her YET she let it happen again and said nothing to her counselor. I find this hard to believe.

I just don't know what to think. Just doesn't make any sense. She also mentioned she thought I was banging some chick and somehow that got into the equation of whether to have sex with him or not. That statement right there doesn't add up because she also said she wasn't thinking at all about having sex with him so exactly when did this thought come into play? At the end of the day she wants me to believe she was beyond shattered when I left, didn't want to be alone, was naïve, low self-esteem, no boundaries and was full of people pleasing syndrome which led her to not want to hurt this guys feelings EVEN THOUGH she claims she didn't want him there and didn't want to be with him EVEN THOUGH she was considering dating him because he liked her. 

Again - I don't understand it but perhaps someone here can make sense out of it. Other than that, I am just going to have to try and process everything she said and take one day at a time.


----------



## Openminded

She may be rewriting history or she may be telling the truth. There’s no way to know for sure what happened so you’ll have to decide whether you can live with what she said.


----------



## Bluesclues

Trustless Marriage said:


> I finally had a chance to talk to my wife about what was so awful that night (and a lot of other stuff). She continues to say it's because he was there and he didn't want him there - that was what was so horrible. She told him no in bed and because he was persistent she thought she needed to give him a chance even though she just wanted him to leave. She slept naked with him all night but claims she kept hoping he would just leave her alone (they had sex 4 different times). And when he never called her back it's only then she felt she was used even though this has happened many times before to her so I don't get it. She claims she was going to counseling for 2 years prior to this to try and understand why she was letting guys use her YET she let it happen again and said nothing to her counselor. I find this hard to believe.
> 
> I just don't know what to think. Just doesn't make any sense. She also mentioned she thought I was banging some chick and somehow that got into the equation of whether to have sex with him or not. That statement right there doesn't add up because she also said she wasn't thinking at all about having sex with him so exactly when did this thought come into play? At the end of the day she wants me to believe she was beyond shattered when I left, didn't want to be alone, was naïve, low self-esteem, no boundaries and was full of people pleasing syndrome which led her to not want to hurt this guys feelings EVEN THOUGH she claims she didn't want him there and didn't want to be with him EVEN THOUGH she was considering dating him because he liked her.
> 
> Again - I don't understand it but perhaps someone here can make sense out of it. Other than that, I am just going to have to try and process everything she said and take one day at a time.


It makes perfect sense to me honestly. Did you ever answer how long you have been married?


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## Divinely Favored

Trustless Marriage said:


> Prior to getting married, I broke up with my then girlfriend after 2 years of dating. A week later, she went bar hopping with a guy she had just met through a friend. Supposedly nothing happened. Two weeks later, she has a one night stand with someone she met at a bar. They went back to her apartment, partied with her roommate and her boyfriend and then retired to the bedroom. They had sex 4 times that night, including oral, and concluded with a romp in the morning. She said she asked him to wear a condom but only found one in the morning and thinks the guy took it off shortly after having intercourse for the first time.
> 
> My problem is this. Before we got back together, I said I would only take her back if she had not been with any other guys during our 4 week breakup. She denied ever being with someone else and she sounded convincing to say the least. Did she have the right to have a ONS? Sure - we were not a couple. Do I think she disrespected me, our relationship and herself by not only having a ONS but having one so quickly AND so intimately as she did? Absolutely - no arguing that. Because she did this within weeks of our break up and then lied about it, it has always felt to me as if she cheated on me. Not to mention she put my health at risk for having unprotected sex with a stranger and I not knowing anything about it. She cared more about giving this guy herpes then her or myself catching anything he had.
> 
> I found out about all this after she slipped up in a lie about her past. Then a whole can of worms came out including this night. Originally she said she never wanted any of it, that the entire evening was horrible (the worst night of her life), that she didn't want to be around the guy, that unknowingly he followed her home after the bar, somehow knew which apartment she lived in, somehow got through the security door, for some odd reason she said nothing when he came into the apartment (What are YOU doing here? How did you know where I lived? Nothing), that she told him NO in bed and that she felt like she was raped even though she "gave in". I never believed this story for a second because it had more holes in it than swiss cheese. Nothing she did that entire night fit with what she was "thinking and feeling". She had plenty of opportunities to ditch this guy yet she did nothing. Actions speak louder than words.
> 
> After denying that she was never looking to date anyone (you don't meet guys out unless you are looking to date) I finally got her to admit that she was "considering" (not "looking" lol see who I am dealing with?) to date other men. I also got her to admit that she DID, on her own will, decide to give this guy a chance and that by sleeping with him was her way of feeling accepted by him. It's all starting to make sense now and it's all what I suspected. For the past year she made up this story that was suppose to make me feel sorry for her when in fact it's starting to look like it was just the opposite. I believe she was a full participant of everything that happened that night and all this baloney about it being the worst night of her life is just a decoy. FYI she has yet to explain what was so horrible that night even though I have asked her many times.
> 
> This isn't the first thing she has lied to me about and I just think I made a mistake marrying this woman. Trust is the foundation of any marriage. She, in a sense, decided for me who I marry since she lied to me about everything I was looking for a woman. I know women often lie about their past but it doesn't make it right. I have given her plenty of chances to come clean but she is still fighting it.
> 
> Is this woman marriage material and take the chance she can change? Or do I find someone who I can trust?


She is not trust worthy. She is definately not marriage material, more like cheater material with that ability to lie. Jump in bed for sex romp a week after a 2 yr relationship. She was not very into you to get over you that quick.

Who broke up with who? Why?


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## Divinely Favored

DownByTheRiver said:


> And based on the fact that he's too controlling for her.


Nothing he has done is "controling". Her lies make her controling by taking away his informed choice. 

Something a cheater would say if spouse was complaining about them staying out all night clubbing.


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## Divinely Favored

lifeistooshort said:


> You form a certain image of your partner and when you find out that image is wrong it can really flip you upside down. ...


This Really! Dealing with my wifes suspicious mind as result of her 1st marriage to cheating hubby, one day she was on my ass and was projecting her exes behavior onto me. She stated as a threat, "After my divorce i went hog wild"

I just went numb. I thought this woman i prized
1. just told me she was acting like a whor3.
2. We were together 2 months before her divorce was final.....so that means she had sex with others while we were together.

I had a thought of what i saw my wife as. Married at 16 to HS sweethart. Divorced him 10 yrs later. We met 2 months before divorce final(during Tx waiting period). So in my mind she had 1 partner i knew of(ex) and possibly 1-2 more depending on when she first started having sex.

Now being told she went hog wild....that hurt.
I was thinking the woman i married was not what i thought she was. I could not talk. She asked if i wanted her to take me back to my car and i could just nod. She spent the rest of day looking fir appartment thinking i was going to want her to leave. She said the look on my face and reaction made her feel like she had cheated on me.

Lated clarification of hog wild after divorce...
She had 2 ONS out of anger at ex and in her mind her marriage was over when she found the continued cheating and left him. Not after divorce was finalized. She stated she cried after both times. So now i had to reconcile her number in my mind and adjust it up by 2. That was much better than "Hog Wild" and those ONS did not happen while we were together.

So i had a blue eyed, brunette hottie with a known partner count of 3, 1st an ex hubby. But the package had damage from the 1st serial cheating hubby. Took 15yrs for me to repair that damage, but she is worth it.


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## TheGoodFather

So, why did you marry her despite all those waving red flags? Perhaps you are fascinated with drama in your life? Or, you want to fix her? I agree with the majority of opinions here that she is not a marriage material and she can't be trusted to be faithful with her marriage vow. But those are moot point now that you already married her. Now, you should talk to her heart to heart and tell her that you expect her to be faithful with her marriage vow. Make it very clear to her that cheating is not acceptable and it will definitely (emphasize definitely) break up the marriage. Now, if I were in your shoe, I will not rush into getting her pregnant for at least two years to see if she becomes mature enough to raise children. That way, divorce would be easier if she still acts 5hitty. Good luck and hopefully you won't be coming back here asking for advice on infidelity and divorce.


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## Casual Observer

Blondilocks said:


> OK, this is going to turn into one of those "my wife lied 40 years ago and I can't get over it. Boo-hoo, woe is me" threads. Next.


This isn't even close to that. No, this is about keeping that from happening. The weird thing in this case is that both parties know they're at odds with the other; there's no longer anything hidden. Both parties recognize, early on, the incompatibilities. So why not move on?


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## Trustless Marriage

A couple days ago I asked my wife if she would take a polygraph test. I told her it would only be a few questions, questions that I have already asked her and it would be just a few minute test. I said in exchange, if she passed the test, I would be willing to bury everything and start afresh. Her response was she was upset, that it would take her a long time to forgive me for this "degrading" test but she agreed to take it. 

I think I have the questions figured out - simple yes/no questions about things I do not believe happened and of course I would work with the tester in wording these questions. I will not tell her the questions before hand so she can think long and hard about anything she may be lying about hoping if she decided to come clean I may not have to schedule this test at all.

Today she sent me a text about something and at the bottom it said "And we need to talk again." I can't tell you how rare and unexpected this simple text was. I'm quite anxious about what it is she wants to talk about - actually scarily anxious. Could it be she will admit something she has been lying about after thinking about having to take this polygraph? If it is, I can only hope it's not something big - like having sex with this person and that person. That would crush me. Yet if it was about something small it could lead to bigger lies and snowball - also crushing me. Maybe she just changed her mind about taking the test.

I will soon fine out.


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## QuietRiot

Trustless Marriage said:


> A couple days ago I asked my wife if she would take a polygraph test. I told her it would only be a few questions, questions that I have already asked her and it would be just a few minute test. I said in exchange, if she passed the test, I would be willing to bury everything and start afresh. Her response was she was upset, that it would take her a long time to forgive me for this "degrading" test but she agreed to take it.
> 
> I think I have the questions figured out - simple yes/no questions about things I do not believe happened and of course I would work with the tester in wording these questions. I will not tell her the questions before hand so she can think long and hard about anything she may be lying about hoping if she decided to come clean I may not have to schedule this test at all.
> 
> Today she sent me a text about something and at the bottom it said "And we need to talk again." I can't tell you how rare and unexpected this simple text was. I'm quite anxious about what it is she wants to talk about - actually scarily anxious. Could it be she will admit something she has been lying about after thinking about having to take this polygraph? If it is, I can only hope it's not something big - like having sex with this person and that person. That would crush me. Yet if it was about something small it could lead to bigger lies and snowball - also crushing me. Maybe she just changed her mind about taking the test.
> 
> I will soon fine out.


Oh boy. Well you should be prepared for the worst here and don’t assume you’re going to get the full truth if she does confess anything.

Let me ask you, what are you going to do if she has betrayed you again? You need to have a plan.


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## Lostinthought61

When she finally tells you a version of the truth because it’s never really the truth...ask her who feels degraded now and tell her you are going forward with the polygraph or a divorce or both.


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## oldshirt

She may try to squirm out of the poly by providing some trickle truth. 

Or she may opt for the divorce and just leave it all behind her and walk away.

At this point I can’t say I’d blame her.


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## Andy1001

Trustless Marriage said:


> A couple days ago I asked my wife if she would take a polygraph test. I told her it would only be a few questions, questions that I have already asked her and it would be just a few minute test. I said in exchange, if she passed the test, I would be willing to bury everything and start afresh. Her response was she was upset, that it would take her a long time to forgive me for this "degrading" test but she agreed to take it.
> 
> I think I have the questions figured out - simple yes/no questions about things I do not believe happened and of course I would work with the tester in wording these questions. I will not tell her the questions before hand so she can think long and hard about anything she may be lying about hoping if she decided to come clean I may not have to schedule this test at all.
> 
> Today she sent me a text about something and at the bottom it said "And we need to talk again." I can't tell you how rare and unexpected this simple text was. I'm quite anxious about what it is she wants to talk about - actually scarily anxious. Could it be she will admit something she has been lying about after thinking about having to take this polygraph? If it is, I can only hope it's not something big - like having sex with this person and that person. That would crush me. Yet if it was about something small it could lead to bigger lies and snowball - also crushing me. Maybe she just changed her mind about taking the test.
> 
> I will soon fine out.


You’re going to get what’s called the parking lot confession. She’s afraid she won’t pass the polygraph so she’s going to tell you some more about the sexual stuff she’s done. 
But not all of the stuff. 

I don’t understand why you married this woman and I’m not talking about the ons with the other guy. As far as I’m concerned she was single and entitled to screw whoever she wanted to.
You have your own opinion about how people should behave and while I don’t agree with it I still accept that they are your opinions. However, you then married her, a woman who in your own words you “couldn’t get away from quickly enough” but then you took her back after getting her to agree to some ludicrous conditions which she had already pissed on. 
You married her so either stay married or don’t but stop with the self victimisation bs.
Martyrdom is not a spectator sport.


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## Trustless Marriage

Andy1001 said:


> You’re going to get what’s called the parking lot confession. She’s afraid she won’t pass the polygraph so she’s going to tell you some more about the sexual stuff she’s done.
> But not all of the stuff.
> 
> I don’t understand why you married this woman and I’m not talking about the ons with the other guy. As far as I’m concerned she was single and entitled to screw whoever she wanted to.
> You have your own opinion about how people should behave and while I don’t agree with it I still accept that they are your opinions. However, you then married her, a woman who in your own words you “couldn’t get away from quickly enough” but then you took her back after getting her to agree to some ludicrous conditions which she had already pissed on.
> You married her so either stay married or don’t but stop with the self victimisation bs.
> Martyrdom is not a spectator sport.


It's simple. I gave her another chance because I wanted to be with her. Keep in mind I didn't find out about ANY of this other stuff that she lied to me about until after we were married. So I was going into this marriage blind as a bat.


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## Trustless Marriage

Well we had our little talk. My heart was racing. She says she has told me everything from the bottom of her heart but she will not take the test. She says it's humiliating. After this talk ended and a few text messages back and fourth, she says she will not be bullied into taking the test. I told her I am not bulling anyone. I said I didn't ask for any of this. It was you who was selfish and decided who I was going to marry based on your lies. You caused this and it will be you who fixes this. I gave you a way out, to prove you are telling me the truth and I am quite surprised on your decision. I can only assume she has more to hide. I don't really care at this point what it is she is hiding although I'm sure it will hurt. I just need to know that going forward there will be truth and only the truth yet she still cannot promise this.

My wife has two issues with me. I got in touch with my ex girlfriend after we got married to get closure. I didn't tell her I did this - my mistake. Secondly - she thought I was banging some girl when we broke up for those 6 weeks just because we went out to eat. Never even touched her body other than we had a few innocent kisses (and I told her about the kisses). She doesn't believe me in both cases. I would LOVE to take a test to prove this to her and to prove I have been telling her the truth because I have nothing to hide. So then I say to myself why wouldn't she want to do the same for me?


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## Trustless Marriage

oldshirt said:


> She may try to squirm out of the poly by providing some trickle truth.
> 
> Or she may opt for the divorce and just leave it all behind her and walk away.
> 
> At this point I can’t say I’d blame her.


To be honest I have put her through hell - hell that I never intended to put her through. It is what it is and I cannot wait until we can have a normal relationship. But you also have to understand when you lie to someone and trickle truth them to death it's just plain going to be a bad situation and both sides are going to say and do things they would regret later. However, I won't apologize for standing up for myself. I've told her several times that she deserves to be happy and she needs to find someone who can do that. She is still here.


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## Trustless Marriage

QuietRiot said:


> Oh boy. Well you should be prepared for the worst here and don’t assume you’re going to get the full truth if she does confess anything.
> 
> Let me ask you, what are you going to do if she has betrayed you again? You need to have a plan.


I just want the truth. I honestly don't think she will betray me again after what we have gone through - if we can make it through this mess. If we can get to the point where we can bury this I believe there is hope.


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy

Tell her for your lives to move forward in a healthy way it's best you both do the lie detector for each other. Hopefully if you both pass Bury or burn the results and go renew your wedding vows. If she isn't willing to do this for peace of mind I'd be wondering what else is she hiding? If no guilt or anything to hide she should accept it so you can both put it all behind you and move forward.

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## QuietRiot

Trustless Marriage said:


> I just want the truth. I honestly don't think she will betray me again after what we have gone through - if we can make it through this mess. If we can get to the point where we can bury this I believe there is hope.


Well I don’t think any version of truth is going to satisfy you here. But good luck with that.

So here is your problem, did you say “Take the test or I’m divorcing you?” Because if you did say that, then you need to divorce her. 

If you didn’t say that, you better say it and mean it, or get the hell over this whole thing and move on with your lives. Stop torturing her and yourself with all this. And you are minimizing your own contributions to this **** show with the contacting the ex WHILE your married and “innocent kissing” (what the hell is innocent kissing???) while you’re broken up. You don’t get to call your actions innocent and hers vindictive, she didn’t screw guys to punish you and thought you were never getting back together most likely. But yes she lied and continues to do so. What are you going to do about it?

You are like a dog with a bone.


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## Evinrude58

She’s not taking the test. What is your response? You opened a can of worms. No way you’re gonna get a polygragh unless you show her divorce papers and actually intend to go through with it. You aren’t. So stop bluffing and get over it.
I never read how long you’d been married, but know you were asked. Mind repeating?


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## Lostinthought61

So basically she called your bluff and you folded.....congratulations on taking a weak stand


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## Trustless Marriage

QuietRiot said:


> You don’t get to call your actions innocent and hers vindictive,


You bring up a good point. I remembered that her second longest relationship was 3.5 years. She had found out her boyfriend was cheating on her (he was away at a different school - rich snotty kid). He had cheated on her multiple times including with prostitutes. Instead of breaking up with the scum bag, she went out over the course of several weeks or months and decided she was going to have sex with guys to get back at him. She hooked up with 4 guys - one which was an old boyfriend that they never had sex before while dating. She saw him in a bar one night and went home to have sex with him (this was all in college). The other 3 were frat guys (who had girlfriends) and had one night stands with. I guess one was so good she went back to get seconds.

In any event, during our talk I said to her was this a revenge hookup with this guy (never occurred to me until now)? I said I can see the resemblance of what you did with your ex. You thought I broke up with you and assumed I was out banging some chick. Did you do the same thing to me you did to your ex? Decided to get even - hooked up with this dude but made up some story that doesn't make an ounce of sense. I said the revenge hookup makes more sense now than anything. She denied it - with the same weak surprised fake denial I received when she lied to me the first 2 times. Why else would she keep saying "you were out with some other girl" out one side of her mouth and out the other say "I didn't want him at my apartment - it was the worst night of my life". Beginning to make more and more sense now.


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## Trustless Marriage

Lostinthought61 said:


> So basically she called your bluff and you folded.....congratulations on taking a weak stand


What bluff?


----------



## Trustless Marriage

Evinrude58 said:


> She’s not taking the test. What is your response? You opened a can of worms. No way you’re gonna get a polygragh unless you show her divorce papers and actually intend to go through with it. You aren’t. So stop bluffing and get over it.
> I never read how long you’d been married, but know you were asked. Mind repeating?


She says she is not taking the test. She'll take the test. It's her only reasonable option out. She didn't even say it's because she doesn't believe in the test. All she said is that it's degrading and humiliating. Yes - I guess if you fail!!!! If you have nothing to hide, you walk in there, take the test, pass and now who looks like the fool. Me. I can live with that. Why wouldn't she take it unless she is worried about failing?


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## Trustless Marriage

CrAzYdOgLaDy said:


> Tell her for your lives to move forward in a healthy way it's best you both do the lie detector for each other. Hopefully if you both pass Bury or burn the results and go renew your wedding vows. If she isn't willing to do this for peace of mind I'd be wondering what else is she hiding? If no guilt or anything to hide she should accept it so you can both put it all behind you and move forward.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


Exactly. It's a win win for both she should be thanking me but instead all of a sudden it's about her and how she is going to feel even though she brought this all on herself. I don't buy that.

She is being really nice to me now. She texted me and wrote she wants to have a lot of fun in the bedroom this weekend. Very strange. Maybe she is thinking she can get around this test by lot's of making up in the bedroom. Not sure


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## ccpowerslave

Trustless Marriage said:


> Exactly. It's a win win for both she should be thanking me but instead all of a sudden it's about her and how she is going to feel even though she brought this all on herself. I don't buy that.
> 
> She is being really nice to me now. She texted me and wrote she wants to have a lot of fun in the bedroom this weekend. Very strange. Maybe she is thinking she can get around this test by lot's of making up in the bedroom. Not sure


Sorry but I laughed because it’s still a couple days until the weekend. What’s wrong with right now? “I can’t wait... to be horny two days from now.”


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## Openminded

Some women think that throwing sex at the problem is always the answer when they’re in the wrong (simple men and all that 😉) so, yeah, that offer was predictable.


----------



## QuietRiot

Trustless Marriage said:


> You bring up a good point. I remembered that her second longest relationship was 3.5 years. She had found out her boyfriend was cheating on her (he was away at a different school - rich snotty kid). He had cheated on her multiple times including with prostitutes. Instead of breaking up with the scum bag, she went out over the course of several weeks or months and decided she was going to have sex with guys to get back at him. She hooked up with 4 guys - one which was an old boyfriend that they never had sex before while dating. She saw him in a bar one night and went home to have sex with him (this was all in college). The other 3 were frat guys (who had girlfriends) and had one night stands with. I guess one was so good she went back to get seconds.
> 
> In any event, during our talk I said to her was this a revenge hookup with this guy (never occurred to me until now)? I said I can see the resemblance of what you did with your ex. You thought I broke up with you and assumed I was out banging some chick. Did you do the same thing to me you did to your ex? Decided to get even - hooked up with this dude but made up some story that doesn't make an ounce of sense. I said the revenge hookup makes more sense now than anything. She denied it - with the same weak surprised fake denial I received when she lied to me the first 2 times. Why else would she keep saying "you were out with some other girl" out one side of her mouth and out the other say "I didn't want him at my apartment - it was the worst night of my life". Beginning to make more and more sense now.


She has incredibly low self esteem. That’s why she is so promiscuous outside of relationships (which is her right to do). And that’s why she stays in this situation with you, being harassed on the daily about every possible facet of her sexual past. 

I’m going to guess you’ve been married for 5 years. She’s been subjected to this torture for 5 years and still comes back for more. You two may be having this same conversation on your 30th anniversary.


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## Lostinthought61

Trustless Marriage said:


> What bluff?


My bad, i thought you were going to accept her decision to not take the poly and move on, but thank you for correcting me...and i am glad you are sticking with your guns.


----------



## Trustless Marriage

ccpowerslave said:


> Sorry but I laughed because it’s still a couple days until the weekend. What’s wrong with right now? “I can’t wait... to be horny two days from now.”


We both work long hours.


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## Evinrude58

Trustless Marriage said:


> She says she is not taking the test. She'll take the test. It's her only reasonable option out. She didn't even say it's because she doesn't believe in the test. All she said is that it's degrading and humiliating. Yes - I guess if you fail!!!! If you have nothing to hide, you walk in there, take the test, pass and now who looks like the fool. Me. I can live with that. *Why wouldn't she take it unless she is worried about failing?*


Uh.........because she’s worried about failing.... yeah... we will go with that.


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## Harold Demure

Sorry you find yourself in this very difficult position and I do feel for you. Trying to be supportive with this post, not bashing you.

Even if she did take the test and passed with flying colours, is all of this going to go away? I don’t think so. From the tone of your posts, I think you will continue to struggle and, rather than you questioning whether you want to stay married, I would ask her if it is worth staying.

I don’t know if I am wrong, but I sense real anger in your posts and there is a real danger that anger will still stay with you even if she passes each and every test. If she does pass, how long before you throw it all back in her face during the next argument?

You talk about punishing her. Punishing her for what, lying to you because she wanted to be with you or are you punishing because you can not accept she slept with someone else during the break in a way that did not meet your moral code?

Oldshirt makes several extremely good points and I would seriously take his advice.

Your wife was wrong to lie. What she did when you were broken up is none of your business and you have no right to make moral judgements either. She was still wrong to lie.

You do have the right to decide if you want to divorce but that should not be pinned on her taking any test. That, to me, is just an excuse. It should be pinned on whether you two are a good fit, whether you are capable of both loving each other and whether you can leave everything behind.


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## marko polo

A broken trust will always be just that - broken.

I would go so far as to say she does not respect or love you. If she did she would not have lied to you in the first place. She _should_ be striving to earn your trust now and do what is necessary to build it. Without trust, respect and love you haven't got much to work with for a marriage.

Your wife did not owe you fidelity before you married however she new well enough that sleeping around would have been a deal breaker for you when you parted ways. Her choice was to lie to you to get your commitment in marriage. Marriage built on a lie(s) will not survive over the long term.

Instead of doing whatever she can to put your concerns to rest she is resisting. This issue of the polygraph and her refusal to take it just one more indicator that you should part ways. She has more to conceal from you. You have valid concerns.

Reasoning with her will be a waste of your time. She is a manipulator. Empty promises are her currency. You have already seen who she is before you married her. You have learned more about her past while married to her. Certainly you can attempt reconciliation but you will be disappointed if this is your course. The only path forward in her mind will be for you to forget this whole incident, to accept that she is blameless and that your_ "insecurities" _are the source of all the difficulty.

It's not your imagination. Your wife is not marriage material.


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## sourwood

Trustless Marriage said:


> Prior to getting married, I broke up with my then girlfriend after 2 years of dating. A week later, she went bar hopping with a guy she had just met through a friend. Supposedly nothing happened. Two weeks later, she has a one night stand with someone she met at a bar. They went back to her apartment, partied with her roommate and her boyfriend and then retired to the bedroom. They had sex 4 times that night, including oral, and concluded with a romp in the morning. She said she asked him to wear a condom but only found one in the morning and thinks the guy took it off shortly after having intercourse for the first time.
> 
> My problem is this. Before we got back together, I said I would only take her back if she had not been with any other guys during our 4 week breakup. She denied ever being with someone else and she sounded convincing to say the least. Did she have the right to have a ONS? Sure - we were not a couple. Do I think she disrespected me, our relationship and herself by not only having a ONS but having one so quickly AND so intimately as she did? Absolutely - no arguing that. Because she did this within weeks of our break up and then lied about it, it has always felt to me as if she cheated on me. Not to mention she put my health at risk for having unprotected sex with a stranger and I not knowing anything about it. She cared more about giving this guy herpes then her or myself catching anything he had.
> 
> I found out about all this after she slipped up in a lie about her past. Then a whole can of worms came out including this night. Originally she said she never wanted any of it, that the entire evening was horrible (the worst night of her life), that she didn't want to be around the guy, that unknowingly he followed her home after the bar, somehow knew which apartment she lived in, somehow got through the security door, for some odd reason she said nothing when he came into the apartment (What are YOU doing here? How did you know where I lived? Nothing), that she told him NO in bed and that she felt like she was raped even though she "gave in". I never believed this story for a second because it had more holes in it than swiss cheese. Nothing she did that entire night fit with what she was "thinking and feeling". She had plenty of opportunities to ditch this guy yet she did nothing. Actions speak louder than words.
> 
> After denying that she was never looking to date anyone (you don't meet guys out unless you are looking to date) I finally got her to admit that she was "considering" (not "looking" lol see who I am dealing with?) to date other men. I also got her to admit that she DID, on her own will, decide to give this guy a chance and that by sleeping with him was her way of feeling accepted by him. It's all starting to make sense now and it's all what I suspected. For the past year she made up this story that was suppose to make me feel sorry for her when in fact it's starting to look like it was just the opposite. I believe she was a full participant of everything that happened that night and all this baloney about it being the worst night of her life is just a decoy. FYI she has yet to explain what was so horrible that night even though I have asked her many times.
> 
> This isn't the first thing she has lied to me about and I just think I made a mistake marrying this woman. Trust is the foundation of any marriage. She, in a sense, decided for me who I marry since she lied to me about everything I was looking for a woman. I know women often lie about their past but it doesn't make it right. I have given her plenty of chances to come clean but she is still fighting it.
> 
> Is this woman marriage material and take the chance she can change? Or do I find someone who I can trust?


She did lie to you. BUT, you told her your "conditions" of taking her back AFTER the fact. Would have been a good idea to specify that at the original break-up. She should have told you the truth, but she probably felt like she would lose you if she did!! You put her in that position. If you feel like she needs to change, then you need to find someone else.


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## 24NitroglyceriN26

You got lots of details on the cheating at first. You stayed with her but that doesn't mean you can't decide to cheat on that decision and move on with life. It is your thing.


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