# Wife does not give BJ's at all



## Frusty (May 25, 2014)

She does not give BJ's at all and it is really frustrating. We do not have kids. We got married one and half years ago. I am 29 Years old at present and the idea of not getting BJ for rest of my life is very scary. She wants to have babies but I have made it a point that unless she blows me, I won't have sex (of course with her, am not going to cheat).

But from today, I have decided not to touch her sexually or see porn in front of her. I believe depriving her of all this would make her want it, may not be today or tomorrow, but may be in a month. I hope I am right.

She used to blow me very rarely (literally, very rarely) earlier. But she has stopped it altogether. Now, I want to make it clear that I remain clean shaven in pubic region and do not smell as I take shower before any sexual act. She even does not blow me with a flavored condom on.


----------



## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

I think you have to respect her as a spouse, no one should be pushed or bullied into something they don't like. if this is a deal breaker for you then, leave her before you have kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Wow. Good luck manipulating her into a duty bj, and I hope you thoroughly enjoy a bj that you know she can't stand. Let us know how that works for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

You are a bit obsessed about this. I have never heard of a husband not having sex with his wife because she won't give him a BJ. This could very well backfire on you. I know if my husband told me no sex until I give him a BJ then we wouldn't be having sex. I want to give my husband a BJ because I want to make him feel good not because he is blackmailing me and demanding it from me. Major turn off.


----------



## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Why did you marry her if BJ's were so important to you?

C


----------



## MotherNature (May 9, 2014)

Im torn with this....I dont think you should manipulate her into giving you a bj . Have you sat down with her. Maybe ask her what she likes you to do. Aproach it from that angle. Get her talking about what she likes so you can pkease her better, then it will open the door for you to say that you really like bj's and wish she would do it more. I know bjs arent really my thing. But my husband loves it and I enjoy making him happy so I started enjoying them because im pleasing him.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Here we go again with me differing from the prevailing winds here. I think you got duped. If she didnt like giving BJ's she shouldnt have ever given you one. Not a single one. And if she did it to see if she liked it and didn't she should have told you before marriage it was off the table.

Sex without a BJ is boring, uneventful and routine. Sure you can both get off but there's no variety and it will get old. Trust me. I am speaking out of experience here.


----------



## MotherNature (May 9, 2014)

I also second that if my husband withheld sex from me because I didnt want to do something. Id be pissed and not do it out of spite.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## sparkyjim (Sep 22, 2012)

I agree with the other posters...

But let me ask you a question. Are you talking about oral sex as foreplay or are you talking about oral to completion?

Some women don't like oral to completion but will gladly do oral as foreplay. I am just wondering because I am not clear on what your situation is.


----------



## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

So did she blow you before marriage and do the bait and switch? 
Don't think this is going to work for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

sinnister said:


> Here we go again with me differing from the prevailing winds here. I think you got duped. If she didnt like giving BJ's she shouldnt have ever given you one. Not a single one. And if she did it to see if she liked it and didn't she should have told you before marriage it was off the table.
> 
> Sex without a BJ is boring, uneventful and routine. Sure you can both get off but there's no variety and it will get old. Trust me. I am speaking out of experience here.


Maybe she tired it and didn't like it. Knowing it was important to him she was tryig to please him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Your idea of not saying anything to her and withholding all sex is a horrible idea. Using withholding sex to punish your wife is bad, real bad. It's passive aggressive in the worst way.

What you need to do it to be upfront and honest with her. "Honey, we have a problem. I cannot live with not having another bj in my life... or really not having them regularly... like once a month (or once a week whatever your limit is). We need to see a marriage counselor who is a sex therapist so that we can address this is way that is safe for both of us. I love you and do not want to feel like I have to leave you in order to get a major need of mine met."

If she refuses to go to a sex therapist with you then divorce her. She has no plans of meeting that one need of your and it means more to you than she does.

There is also a book that would help you both talk about this topic: "His Needs, Her Needs". It can supplement your MC.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

sinnister said:


> Here we go again with me differing from the prevailing winds here. I think you got duped. If she didnt like giving BJ's she shouldnt have ever given you one. Not a single one. And if she did it to see if she liked it and didn't she should have told you before marriage it was off the table.
> 
> Sex without a BJ is boring, uneventful and routine. Sure you can both get off but there's no variety and it will get old. Trust me. I am speaking out of experience here.



How exactly was he duped? In his own words she would blow him "very rarely". That's not a good tipoff? If you had a guy on here complaining that he got sex 3 times in two years of dating, married her anyway, and is now po'd he doesn't get sex would you claim he was duped? Or would you ask him why he would think it was going to get better with marriage?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

LOL,

Frusty, I notice that the women in this thread are unanimously against you. Maybe you would get more sympathy from men...

I do have a question for the ladies though - are you similarly firmly against women withholding sex from men? Because that's been a standard tactic since the dawn of civilization! It might also help you understand if you imagine yourself a newly married person suddenly being told you will never get oral again as long as you live? That can be a very long time!

As a man, I don't agree with the withholding strategy UNLESS you have really tried very other option first.

Oral sex is such a small thing. It's something your partner should WANT to give to you. Even if it's only for your benefit. If she doesn't, then there's something wrong. Possibly with you, possibly with her. If she used the excuse about your hygiene yet continues to refuse after you fixed that, then obviously there's another reason and she's either too embarrassed to bring it up, or she's simply not attracted to you anymore. 

Some other possibilities to consider:

Have you done something else to turn her off sexually?
Is it possible she's having an affair, and won't "cheat" on her BF by giving you oral?
How is her sex drive outside of this problem? Has it become lower overall?


----------



## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

I could care 3 flying flucklings about blowjobs lol. All I really care about is my wife getting off I'm a guy I'll finish if you play with it long enough.

When I was younger I loved blowing loads in women's mouth selfish take this mentality I guess (obviously pre marriage) I could care less if I ever get a blow job again.

Good luck in your situation though  my wife would give them if I asked or she thought I liked them.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Theseus said:


> LOL,
> 
> Frusty, I notice that the women in this thread are unanimously against you. Maybe you would get more sympathy from men...
> 
> ...


As a woman I would not withhold sex in order to force my hb to do oral. I couldn't enjoy it anyway knowing it was forced. Now if hubby wanted oral but refused to give it we'd have a problem, so if his wife wants it but won't give it we have a problem. He hasn't indicated this is the case.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

sinnister said:


> Here we go again with me differing from the prevailing winds here. I think you got duped. If she didnt like giving BJ's she shouldnt have ever given you one. Not a single one. And if she did it to see if she liked it and didn't she should have told you before marriage it was off the table.
> 
> Sex without a BJ is boring, uneventful and routine. Sure you can both get off but there's no variety and it will get old. Trust me. I am speaking out of experience here.


{Before you read what I have to say here, I want you to know that for by giving bj’s are just part of making love.. I love giving bj’s with every variety I can think up. It’s a turn on as I love making my man feel good, very good. }

Unless she had a lot of previous sexual experience she might not have known if she liked to give bj's or not. A person needs to give a few of them before they know if they can stand doing them or not.

Sometimes a man’s actions can make it so that a women loses interest in giving them. Things I have experienced that have causes problems:

Every, or most times, the guy holds your head down and pushes you down during the bj. It turns from something enjoyable that you are giving him into he’s pushed you down on himself, ti gags you, your mouth is stuck in a position that hurts, and now you feel assaulted and forced.

It becomes very clear that the bj is really the whole point of sex for him. That’s his focus. Your needs are ignored. PIV is something that he does just long enough to say he did it. Over time bj’s become all he wants. 


I've been in a couple of relationships where these things have happened. The result? BJ's become infrequent because the pleasure in them has been taken away for me.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Frusty said:


> She does not give BJ's at all and it is really frustrating. We do not have kids. We got married one and half years ago. I am 29 Years old at present and the idea of not getting BJ for rest of my life is very scary. She wants to have babies but I have made it a point that unless she blows me, I won't have sex (of course with her, am not going to cheat).
> 
> But from today, I have decided not to touch her sexually or see porn in front of her. I believe depriving her of all this would make her want it, may not be today or tomorrow, but may be in a month. I hope I am right.
> 
> She used to blow me very rarely (literally, very rarely) earlier. But she has stopped it altogether. Now, I want to make it clear that I remain clean shaven in pubic region and do not smell as I take shower before any sexual act. She even does not blow me with a flavored condom on.


How is the rest of your sex life? How is she responding to you sexually?


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Theseus said:


> Frusty, I notice that the women in this thread are unanimously against you. Maybe you would get more sympathy from men...


Is he looking for sympathy or solutions?
He wants bjs from a woman, not a man. It just might make sense for him to listen to what some women have to say.


Theseus said:


> I do have a question for the ladies though - are you similarly firmly against women withholding sex from men?


Of course I’m against anyone withhold sex as a form of manipulation or punishment of their spouse. Most of the women here are. There are dozens of threads on TAM in which the women here give support to men whose wives are withholding sex. 


Theseus said:


> Because that's been a standard tactic since the dawn of civilization!


Men withhold sex as manipulation as often as women do. It’s something that is done about equally by both genders. Men just seem to complain to other men about it more then women will talk about it at all. We also have dozens of threads on TAM started by women whose husbands are withholding sex and/or using it as manipulation.


Theseus said:


> It might also help you understand if you imagine yourself a newly married person suddenly being told you will never get oral again as long as you live? That can be a very long time!


Do you really think that women are not on the receiving end of this sort of a change early in marriage? 


Theseus said:


> As a man, I don't agree with the withholding strategy UNLESS you have really tried very other option first.


Withholding sex as manipulation is a bad idea. Talking to your spouse and letting them know that there si a huge problem that must be addressed is the way mature people handle problems in marriage. Not withholding sex and not telling your spouse what’s going on.


Theseus said:


> Oral sex is such a small thing. It's something your partner should WANT to give to you. Even if it's only for your benefit. If she doesn't, then there's something wrong. Possibly with you, possibly with her. If she used the excuse about your hygiene yet continues to refuse after you fixed that, then obviously there's another reason and she's either too embarrassed to bring it up, or she's simply not attracted to you anymore.


There are many reasons women give for not wanting to give oral sex. Some of them take working with a sex therapist to work through. He needs to find out what is going on with his wife instead of just demanding that she do something that she is having a problem with. He married her knowing full well that she did not like to give oral. So he accepted this.


Theseus said:


> Some other possibilities to consider:
> 
> Have you done something else to turn her off sexually?
> 
> ...


Yep he needs to put some work into this and get her engaged in that work. Passive aggressively cutting off all sex will only make the problem worse.


----------



## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

Frusty said:


> She does not give BJ's at all and it is really frustrating. We do not have kids. We got married one and half years ago. I am 29 Years old at present and the idea of not getting BJ for rest of my life is very scary. She wants to have babies but I have made it a point that unless she blows me, I won't have sex (of course with her, am not going to cheat).
> 
> But from today, I have decided not to touch her sexually or see porn in front of her. I believe depriving her of all this would make her want it, may not be today or tomorrow, but may be in a month. I hope I am right.
> 
> She used to blow me very rarely (literally, very rarely) earlier. But she has stopped it altogether. Now, I want to make it clear that I remain clean shaven in pubic region and do not smell as I take shower before any sexual act. She even does not blow me with a flavored condom on.


This is just one man's opinion, but this plan of yours is a very foolish idea. I get it: you like to get a BJ. Don't we all? 

Thing is, it's a very loving and intimate act to give your partner oral sex. Issuing ultimatums and taking away intimacy will almost certainly backfire and will almost assuredly blow up in your face. If you think you have resentment about not getting oral sex, it will be like bailing water out of a boat with a thimble compared to the resentment she'll build up if she feels forced to "give" you a BJ in order to get any physical affection from you.

Imagine that it's extremely important to your wife that she penetrate your anus with a vibrator when you have sex, but you don't like to. It's very frustrating for her, and the idea of not getting to do that for the rest of her life is very scary... What would your reaction be if she told you that she would withdraw physical affection from you unless you did this for her?

This is a really bad idea.


----------



## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Frusty said:


> She does not give BJ's at all and it is really frustrating. We do not have kids. We got married one and half years ago. I am 29 Years old at present and the idea of not getting BJ for rest of my life is very scary. She wants to have babies but I have made it a point that unless she blows me, I won't have sex (of course with her, am not going to cheat).
> 
> But from today, I have decided not to touch her sexually or see porn in front of her. I believe depriving her of all this would make her want it, may not be today or tomorrow, but may be in a month. I hope I am right.
> 
> She used to blow me very rarely (literally, very rarely) earlier. But she has stopped it altogether. Now, I want to make it clear that I remain clean shaven in pubic region and do not smell as I take shower before any sexual act. She even does not blow me with a flavored condom on.



From the very beginning, you knew she wasn't into BJ's.

She may have had bad experiences with BJ's before she met you and now doesn't want to do them anymore.

Her mouth might be smaller and can't take a lot in.

She might have a strong gag reflex.

Maybe she hates the taste when you orgasm. Having a lot of fruit for 24 hours prior and nothing else will make you sweet.

She can always only take your tip in her mouth and give you an oiled hand job at the same time to get you worked up, but not to completion.


There are many other sexual positions and acts you can do with her.

- Missionary
- Doggie Style
- breast jobs
- foot jobs
- anal
- hand jobs
- spooning
- reverse cowgirl

Talk to her about why she doesn't want to give you BJ's. Don't get upset and really calmly ask her why.

If nothing bad happened to her before, and BJ's are just not her thing, then don't worry about it. Some ladies love giving BJ's but will not even think about anal. Some love anal but won't do foot jobs.

Don't withhold sex from her whatever you do. That will backfire with a LD spouse who only likes vanilla sex.

Just never give her oral. No oral for you = no oral for her.


----------



## GIM003 (Feb 5, 2014)

Frusty said:


> She does not give BJ's at all and it is really frustrating. We do not have kids. We got married one and half years ago. I am 29 Years old at present and the idea of not getting BJ for rest of my life is very scary. She wants to have babies but I have made it a point that unless she blows me, I won't have sex (of course with her, am not going to cheat).
> 
> But from today, I have decided not to touch her sexually or see porn in front of her. I believe depriving her of all this would make her want it, may not be today or tomorrow, but may be in a month. I hope I am right.
> 
> She used to blow me very rarely (literally, very rarely) earlier. But she has stopped it altogether. Now, I want to make it clear that I remain clean shaven in pubic region and do not smell as I take shower before any sexual act. She even does not blow me with a flavored condom on.


This is such a bad idea for so many reasons that it is hard to figure out where to begin, but I will try taking a different tact than other posters:

The way you set out your situation makes is seem as if the bargain that you are working towards, is that you will give your wife a baby if she give you a BJ. Using sex as weapon is very destructive to your relationship; don't do it. Sex is part of the glue of a marriage. Bad dynamics in the bedroom easily spill over into other areas of the relationship. If you are having sexual issues already, having children is not going to make things better.
(If this is your angle and she gives in be sure to name your baby something like Brian John, so you can remember the last time she gave you a BJ, because she will resent you for it and oral sex will disappear as soon as she gets what she wants.).


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Frusty said:


> She does not give BJ's at all and it is really frustrating. We do not have kids. We got married one and half years ago. I am 29 Years old at present and the idea of not getting BJ for rest of my life is very scary. She wants to have babies but I have made it a point that unless she blows me, I won't have sex (of course with her, am not going to cheat).
> 
> But from today, I have decided not to touch her sexually or see porn in front of her. I believe depriving her of all this would make her want it, may not be today or tomorrow, but may be in a month. I hope I am right.
> 
> She used to blow me very rarely (literally, very rarely) earlier. But she has stopped it altogether. Now, I want to make it clear that I remain clean shaven in pubic region and do not smell as I take shower before any sexual act. She even does not blow me with a flavored condom on.


:lol: okay dude, good luck with that!

Has she told you why she doesn't give you blow jobs? Have you listened to her and tried to understand what it is that holds her back?

Once you get over yourself I suggest you work on easing her into feeling more comfortable with your penis. First with just her hands, encourage her to touch and okay and examine and see all the cool things a penis can do. Maybe she can make a heart and an arrow, my favorite penis and balls manipulation, although my husbands arrow is absurdly thick.

Maybe you could slowly get her comfortable and then on her own she will progress to the next step.

While I can understand how important this is to you, you're acting like a spoiled brat and that is what is called a Va-clamping behavior.

My pal GettingIt coined that term. When you behave like a d!ck it makes the vagina clamp shut!


----------



## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

I feel for you, but I don't agree with your tactics. They are immature and just plain mean. Not to mention selfish.

If this is how you solve problems, then good luck with that. She'll leave you sooner than you leave her.

HOWEVER... I do feel for you on the subject.

I don't, and likely never will, understand why oral sex is such a non-starter for so many women. (and men, for that matter).

Apart from the fact that it's great for your partner, which in turn should make you feel good, what's the big deal? You can kiss him, tongue and all, you can have his penis inside your vagina, you can touch, hold, stroke his penis, but it won't go in your mouth?

I'm heterosexual, so I do admit that I don't know what it's like to do this, but I can't quite figure out why so many women are so against it.

My wife will only do it as part of sex. I have asked her about it, and her response is that it makes her feel used, when it's on it's own. I can understand that - really. I don't LIKE it, but I respect it. But to not even have it as part of sex? I just don't get it.


----------



## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

I don't think your approach is going to work. She can outlast you on the sexual blinking. Your approach sounds a little like the "im gonna take my ball and go home" approach of a little boy! Man up. Tell her BJs are essential to you. Make her realize just how important they are. Explain why! Tell her you would never have married her if you thought she was going to never give you a blowjob after the marriage. 

Try to figure out, in her own words, why she is so against it. Some women react badly when a sexual act "is just about YOU". Somehow that really pisses them off. It does not matter if you just gave her a 1/2 hour of oral sex, the BJ is all about you so you are selfish! 

It is very hard to get a sexually incompatible marriage to work out in the long run. Sounds a little like a bait-and-switch was pulled on you. But I wonder why you did not figure this out BEFORE you were married?

In any event, let her know how important a BJ is to you, figure out why she is objecting, maybe you can compromise a little (maybe 69?). But if she just digs in her heals and refuses, divorce her. And ESPECIALLY do not get her pregnant. If she senses you are about to leave, she may "accidentally" forget her birthcontrol.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

alexm said:


> I'm heterosexual, so I do admit that I don't know what it's like to do this, but I can't quite figure out why so many women are so against it.


Get a cumber that is about you size and do to it what a woman does during a bj. do it for what? 5 minutes? 10 minutes?

Be sure to do it so that it's well into your throat. 


I'm serious. Any man who says you does not understand some women do not like to do a bj should try this. 

At least they would have some frame of reference.

I'd like for all the guys who try this to report back here so that we women know what you think.


----------



## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

if the problem is her getting your penis all the way down her throat, maybe she needs to watch some BJ porn. There have to be a hundred ways of doing it. Some just use the tongue. Some the lips only on the **** head. others a combination of a hand on the shaft and the mouth on the tip. and on and on. Don't demand she do a Linda Lovelace Deep Throat impression! :rofl:


----------



## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

EleGirl said:


> Get a cumber that is about you size and do to it what a woman does during a bj. do it for what? 5 minutes? 10 minutes?
> 
> Be sure to do it so that it's well into your throat.
> 
> ...


I likely will not actually do that, but I get your point! No, I have no frame of reference for it, but it still doesn't seem all that awful (as in: bad enough to never, ever do it).

FYI, oral sex on a woman is not all that thrilling, either. Unless you're fresh out of the shower, it doesn't smell all that appealing down there, for starters. I mean, it's not awful, but you know... sweaty BO smell, at best.

And man, does my tongue hurt afterwards sometimes.

And you're what, 2 inches away from the anus? That's not that appealing to some guys!

So why do I do it every... single... time we have sex? Because I seriously enjoy doing things for her. I'd do it as a stand alone thing, too, if she'd let me. But even after a couple of orgasms that way, she wants the whole deal.  And she likes it, it's that simple. That turns me on. Duh.

My opinion on this is that it's not the worst thing in the world for a man OR a woman, and if your partner likes it, wants it, needs it, then seriously, what the F? I can see lines drawn with other things (anal sex, bdsm, whatever), but with something as basic as oral sex?

It's PART of sex! It's part of foreplay (or finishing). Just as much as kissing, touching, and actual PIV, it's part of sex. If sex between a husband and wife is a) take off clothes, b) put penis in vagina and thrust, and that's it, then you're missing out.

Sex is ABOUT making your partner feel good, which in turn makes YOU feel good, which in turn makes sex great for all involved.

I want my partner to WANT to do things, and have it make her feel good that she's making ME feel good - and vice versa. I enjoy doing things like that, both in sex and in real life, when the only reward is that I made my partner feel good about herself, or loved, or special.

I don't need to shove a cucumber in my mouth to understand this aspect of a relationship. A cucumber doesn't have wants, needs or feelings. My partner does, and one of the goals of marriage is to make your partner feel good, wanted, needed, loved, desired.


----------



## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

murphy5 said:


> if the problem is her getting your penis all the way down her throat, maybe she needs to watch some BJ porn. There have to be a hundred ways of doing it. Some just use the tongue. Some the lips only on the **** head. others a combination of a hand on the shaft and the mouth on the tip. and on and on. Don't demand she do a Linda Lovelace Deep Throat impression! :rofl:


:iagree:

It's all about what your partner is doing for you (as long as you return the favor!)

My ex-wife had bad TMJ which developed over the years. I got oral as part of sex, and occasionally on it's own prior to that. Once her jaw started locking, it made it nearly impossible, yet she still continued to use her tongue, and lips around the head. It was fantastic. Why? Because she was doing the best she could, for me. I never complained, nor wished that she didn't have TMJ, I went with the flow and enjoyed it.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

alexm said:


> I don't need to shove a cucumber in my mouth to understand this aspect of a relationship. A cucumber doesn't have wants, needs or feelings. My partner does, and one of the goals of marriage is to make your partner feel good, wanted, needed, loved, desired.


I am sure that giving oral sex to a woman who is not clean not the most pleasant thing to do. I would never expect a man to do that. But then again I have read a lot of posts here from men who say that they do not like it when a women takes a shower before he gives her oral. Some I guess some men like her smelly.


alexm said:


> My opinion on this is that it's not the worst thing in the world for a man OR a woman, and if your partner likes it, wants it, needs it, then seriously, what the F? I can see lines drawn with other things (anal sex, bdsm, whatever), but with something as basic as oral sex?


Sure in general this is true. But….

There are times when a person needs to realize that their partner might have some real reason for not doing something. For example I absolutely will never do bondage. Why? Because when I was 21, some guy (a stranger) attacked me as I was getting into my car. He tried to restrain me and drag me to a field. I got away only because some people heard me scream and ran over to stop him. Any time I’ve tried to do bondage I go right back to that day. I also cannot let anyone put their hand on my neck for the same reason. He was strangling me to the point of bruises and hurt bones/cartilage in my neck. If I was married to a guy who suddenly could not live without` bondage then I’d have to let the marriage go.

We do not know why the OP’s wife does not like to give oral. For everyone here to just assume that it’s because she’s a bad wife without knowing what’s going on with her, is to take the position that she has no right to her own voice.

Statistically, men and women give oral about the same rate. So apparently there are about as many men who do not like giving oral as there are men who do not like giving it. 

“Men give oral sex as much as they receive it.

Contrary to popular wisdom again, men — especially older men — give as much oral sex to women as women give to men. While the difference is greatest in the 20 to 24 year old range (with only 55 percent of men saying they’ve given it in the past year, compared to 74 percent of women), the tables turn as we age. In the 30 to 39 age range, 69 percent of men report having given a woman oral sex, while only 59 percent of women have.

In other age ranges, the differences are far less greater, with only a few percentage points differentiating the two groups.” 

11 Surprising Facts About America’s Sexual Behaviors | World of Psychology


----------



## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

OP, it seems like you are entitled to those BJs. Good luck with that.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Completely agree that sex should not be held hostage to anything in marriage. Also completely agree that he should not father a child now, because this marriage is not strong enough for that.

But, I do think he and his wife should do some deep searching as to why she is so against oral. I've had friends IRL (and women on TAM) say that oral is the most intimate thing a woman can do because:

* the giving nature of the act (all for him)
* the perceived power / dominance aspect (for some)
* she has to stay focused / engaged in the act.

Given that, he needs to determine whether her attitude on oral is a reflection of her feelings about sex in general or sex with him in particular. If the BJ aversion springs from a low interest in sex, for instance, the marriage will be in even more trouble when the responsibilities of life take up time and energy.


----------



## TopsyTurvy5 (Nov 16, 2013)

It is interesting to read the responses, especially after reading a recent thread about men who won't perform oral sex in their wife. Many women indicated that not receiving oral sex was a deal breaker, which I understand. I guess I would say the same thing to the OP. If it means that much and she won't do it, you should leave. The passive aggressive mode of punishing her by withholding sex is an immature and ineffective technique. 

I suggest you be upfront and tell her this us a deal breaker for you. Don't pressure her, but be honest. If she chooses divorce over bjs, then you are better off. If she chooses bjs, then you are better off. 

My opinion: denying oral sex is a deal breaker in most modern marriages.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

EleGirl said:


> I am sure that giving oral sex to a woman who is not clean not the most pleasant thing to do. I would never expect a man to do that. But then again I have read a lot of posts here from men who say that they do not like it when a women takes a shower before he gives her oral. Some I guess some men like her smelly.


Just to be clear, I wasn't talking about when one is in need of a shower. You could have showered 20 minutes ago, and it won't smell like soap down there anymore! It's just the nature of the area (in men, too).



EleGirl said:


> There are times when a person needs to realize that their partner might have some real reason for not doing something. For example I absolutely will never do bondage. Why? Because when I was 21, some guy (a stranger) attacked me as I was getting into my car. He tried to restrain me and drag me to a field. I got away only because some people heard me scream and ran over to stop him. Any time I’ve tried to do bondage I go right back to that day. I also cannot let anyone put their hand on my neck for the same reason. He was strangling me to the point of bruises and hurt bones/cartilage in my neck. If I was married to a guy who suddenly could not live without` bondage then I’d have to let the marriage go.


That's absolutely a legitimate reason, though. I said the same in my post about similar, more extreme, sexual acts, and that one can certainly draw their lines at those. (anal, bdsm, etc. I GET why some people aren't at all into that. Oral sex, on the other hand, I don't get why so many men and women are so deadset against it. Mouth - genitals, so what?)

OP's wife occasionally gave oral sex to him prior to marriage. In your case, I can't imagine you'd do light bondage with anyone, ever, and then decide you have a problem with it. You already have drawn your lines (and legitimately so). It really doesn't seem as though OP's wife has a moral issue with oral sex that precludes her from doing it. It seems as though she just doesn't like it.

Again, not liking something is fine, and everybody's entitled. I have two issues with this particular scenario though:

1) OP's wife DID do it, albeit occasionally. Then stopped completely. We all know that's not cool.

2) And this applies to everybody, imo - basic things like oral sex really aren't all that awful. I just don't see how it's so bad. It's an act of giving, to your partner. You may not particularly enjoy the act itself, however it is with your partner, ostensibly the person you love and who loves you back. It *should* make one happy to do something for one's partner.




EleGirl said:


> We do not know why the OP’s wife does not like to give oral. For everyone here to just assume that it’s because she’s a bad wife without knowing what’s going on with her, is to take the position that she has no right to her own voice.


I don't think the "no oral sex" = bad wife. What's not good is that she DID do it previously, then stopped entirely. Even if it was very occasional beforehand, it was there. If OP spent however long he did with her, prior to marriage, and received oral sex maybe once a month - it was there. He knew it wasn't a regular thing, but it was there. Now it's not, at all.

If I dated somebody for 5 years, and every birthday I got her an expensive present, flowers and a card, she'd appreciate it - even if I don't buy her expensive gifts and flowers "just because" the other 364 days of the year. If we got married, and every birthday all she got was a card, she'd likely not be happy about that. She'd wonder why she wasn't as important anymore.



EleGirl said:


> Statistically, men and women give oral about the same rate. So apparently there are about as many men who do not like giving oral as there are men who do not like giving it.
> 
> “Men give oral sex as much as they receive it.
> 
> ...


Sexual dynamics have a lot to do with one's age and experience, that is clear. Like it or not, sex when you're younger is a male-centric act. Women (or girls) are more likely to do things, like oral sex, in order to show their affection towards males. It's less of a sexual act all around, and more of a "this is how I can show him I like him" kind of thing. For males at that age, as far as I can remember, there's little to no pressure to please the woman.

With age comes long term relationships, then marriage. At that point, both men and women should have figured out that sex is an important factor within those relationships - and EQUALLY so - and that effort is required on both sides - and not just when it comes to sex.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

This may help. Have reciprocal oral sex, you give her and then she gives you. Never expect her to give you a bj when you are aroused and she is not or when she has not beed satisfied. Make sure that you are having mutuality pleasurable sex. 

You can leave your wife to get bj's but you won't find a woman to give you unreciprocated orgasms for long if at all. Give as much as you get, don't act entitled. Give her oral sex without an orgasm for yourself to show that you are as generous as you expect her to be. 

Your wife may not like giving oral sex. If so, she is not compatible with you. You can stay and be miserable or D and find a woman who vows to give you as many bj's as you crave. Get it in writing. Alternatively, stay single and troll for women to give you bj's. When one wears out trade her in for another. Good luck. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

alexm said:


> OP's wife occasionally gave oral sex to him prior to marriage. In your case, I can't imagine you'd do light bondage with anyone, ever, and then decide you have a problem with it. You already have drawn your lines (and legitimately so). It really doesn't seem as though OP's wife has a moral issue with oral sex that precludes her from doing it. It seems as though she just doesn't like it..


How do you think I found out that I had a problem with bondage? I tried it a few times. Often times it takes trying something to find out that you have a problem associated with it.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> {Before you read what I have to say here, I want you to know that for by giving bj’s are just part of making love.. I love giving bj’s with every variety I can think up. It’s a turn on as I love making my man feel good, very good. }
> 
> Unless she had a lot of previous sexual experience she might not have known if she liked to give bj's or not. A person needs to give a few of them before they know if they can stand doing them or not.
> 
> ...



OP. Read this post. Then read it again. 


These points were very relevant for me and the reason I HATED giving BJs. I simply did not feel safe nor cared for based on past experiences. My husband understood. Over time, I came to trust that his desire to care for me way superseded his desire for any particular sex act. 

I think he needs a BJ today.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

NobodySpecial said:


> OP. Read this post. Then read it again.
> 
> 
> These points were very relevant for me and the reason I HATED giving BJs. I simply did not feel safe nor cared for based on past experiences. My husband understood. Over time, I came to trust that his desire to care for me way superseded his desire for any particular sex act.
> ...


This, and the post you quoted are similar to my STBW's experience. Before we began dating, and were simply in the talking and getting to know each other stage, we talked about sex a lot. Giving oral was one of those things she didn't overly enjoy doing, but it didn't bother her either. More along the lines of quid pro quo with willingness to make it good. Over time with me, her mindset has drastically changed. She now gives them eagerly, looks forward to it, is turned on by giving them to me, and probably her biggest step forward with me...she loves swallowing.


----------



## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

EleGirl said:


> How do you think I found out that I had a problem with bondage? I tried it a few times. Often times it takes trying something to find out that you have a problem associated with it.


I'm confused. This is what you said a page ago, so I thought THAT was why you won't do bondage.



EleGirl said:


> For example I absolutely will never do bondage. Why? Because when I was 21, some guy (a stranger) attacked me as I was getting into my car. He tried to restrain me and drag me to a field. I got away only because some people heard me scream and ran over to stop him. Any time I’ve tried to do bondage I go right back to that day. I also cannot let anyone put their hand on my neck for the same reason. He was strangling me to the point of bruises and hurt bones/cartilage in my neck. If I was married to a guy who suddenly could not live without` bondage then I’d have to let the marriage go.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

alexm said:


> I'm confused. This is what you said a page ago, so I thought THAT was why you won't do bondage.


Yes I said that I will not do bondage because of that incident of attempted murder (and I presume the guy had rape on his mind as well).

But the way I found out that I cannot tolerate bondage is that I tried it years later. The few times I tried it, things did not go well. So I have learned that I cannot do bondage because it brings me right back to that incident and I freak out.

I would be wrong if a guy said well you did it twice so you have to do it whenever I want it in the future.

I think that my choice of words made it sound like I have never even tried it. I should have said that after having tried it and found out how I react to it.. it would never again do bondage.


----------



## Happyfamily (Apr 15, 2014)

Frusty said:


> She does not give BJ's at all...


The most important thing in your story is missing: WHY?

It's pretty easy to know why she did it before you were married. Same reason the affair partner does this on the first night. lol. 

A lot of women think this is "stooping", and that's literally true in the physical sense. But if you don't have an attitude problem then this is a great way to get the husband to hi-step on the things you want him to do. 

I can already hear people saying "it makes no difference with mine". But we're talking about this guy right here. I'll bet he would show some gratitude if his wife could do a good job at this for him.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Happyfamily said:


> The most important thing in your story is missing: WHY?
> 
> It's pretty easy to know why she did it before you were married. Same reason the affair partner does this on the first night. lol.
> 
> ...


Based on his attitude it's easy for me to imagine he's petulant in a lot of ways. Not attractive.

Regardless I don't think he's coming back. Probably a fake.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Frusty (May 25, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> Based on his attitude it's easy for me to imagine he's petulant in a lot of ways. Not attractive.
> 
> Regardless I don't think he's coming back. Probably a fake.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I will get back on all of this shortly. Read so many replies but couldnt read all. Its 1 am here and I need to sleep. But i will surely respond. Be assured!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> {Before you read what I have to say here, I want you to know that for by giving bj’s are just part of making love.. I love giving bj’s with every variety I can think up. It’s a turn on as I love making my man feel good, very good. }
> 
> Unless she had a lot of previous sexual experience she might not have known if she liked to give bj's or not. A person needs to give a few of them before they know if they can stand doing them or not.
> 
> ...


I will never understand why a woman being pushed would not expose her teeth when she feels the first pressure on her head. Can woman who have experienced this tell me? 

That's the first thing I would do. At lest I hope I would. What makes woman continue to protect the man parts in her mouth when she is being harmed or coerced or being treated with disrespect? Wouldn't self-protection dictate action? 

Why are men so certain that their penises are safe in a woman's mouth weather she wants it there or not. Why do woman protect the jewels weather she wants it there or not? 

It is a very strange dynamic, no? Sex is penis-centric in our culture. Even woman are indoctrinated. So much else has changed maybe this will change in the future. Woman will become more overtly self-protective because we value ourselves.

Ele I think that many women do protect themselves, but covertly. They allow the unwanted act to continue because it is what is expected. But they get control back by having sex on their terms when the balance of power changes. 

Force and coercion hurts the sex lives of both men and women. Women are usually accused of bait and switch but no one acknowledges what she has had to put up with to get to that point.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> I will never understand why a woman being pushed would not expose her teeth when she feels the first pressure on her head. Can woman who have experienced this tell me?
> 
> That's the first thing I would do. At lest I hope I would. What makes woman continue to protect the man parts in her mouth when she is being harmed or coerced or being treated with disrespect? Wouldn't self-protection dictate action?
> 
> ...


Your points here are interesting.

I think that in some cases a guy can just get overly enthusiastic. If that's the case he can be educated on what not to do.

You are right, some women are timid and don't respond in a way that protects themselves. Others do.

My take on it is that if a guy does this, and it's not a one time over enthusiasm thing... it's at least the end of bj's and maybe the end of sex.

One thing I find interesting is that in my mother's generation (she was born in 1921) most women did not give oral and most husbands did not expect it. Today most men consider it a must have.

How quickly things have changed in our society. It think online porn has a lot to do with this.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Your points here are interesting.
> 
> I think that in some cases a guy can just get overly enthusiastic. If that's the case he can be educated on what not to do.
> 
> ...


I agree. From reading this board it would seem that more and more men think they're entitled to anal, and that's not even legal everywhere. This is why I laugh when I see the argument that porn has nothing to do with us; types of porn have been around since the dawn of man but the internet has opened up a whole new can of worms.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Frusty said:


> She does not give BJ's at all and it is really frustrating. We do not have kids. We got married one and half years ago. I am 29 Years old at present and the idea of not getting BJ for rest of my life is very scary. She wants to have babies but I have made it a point that unless she blows me, I won't have sex (of course with her, am not going to cheat).
> 
> But from today, I have decided not to touch her sexually or see porn in front of her. I believe depriving her of all this would make her want it, may not be today or tomorrow, but may be in a month. I hope I am right.
> 
> She used to blow me very rarely (literally, very rarely) earlier. But she has stopped it altogether. Now, I want to make it clear that I remain clean shaven in pubic region and do not smell as I take shower before any sexual act. She even does not blow me with a flavored condom on.


Do you believe she has some sexual hang ups? I DID in my younger years.. I associated BJ's with porn, prostitutes and it just seemed DIRTY to me.. had I been properly educated ... been inspired that these are a beautiful expression in marriage to love and please one another... I really feel I wouldn't have struggled here.. My H would died & went to heaven with them.. but he never asked or pushed for one..(for 19 years). 

I did make a stupid remark about Penis's back in the day -(open mouth, insert foot moment) ... it wasn't mean or anything.. and not even towards him..but he took it internally and tells me 5 yrs ago -bringing this up -that he wasn't going to ask me to put my mouth on it !! I always Loved & craved sex and had an orgasm EVERY SINGLE TIME...so he really should have called me out on that saying something like ..."Well you sure don't mind when you get off"!! ... but he didn't.. and I had no idea he felt that way.....

I love Bj's today and would be MAD if he didn't want them, I overcame all of my inhibitions ...so some of us can be awakened... Honestly I wished my H would have talked to me about this in the past...his silence on it wasn't helping us at all... for me to come out of my shell..

I'd get your wife a book like this... if she would be willing to read and you both work on pleasing each other in any of the ways you both crave...maybe you could step up more "emotionally"/ affectionately -for her.. this would surely help..it all starts with open communication..the threats will not go over well though...it will shut 90% of women down...

Passionista: The Empowered Woman's Guide to Pleasuring a Man: Ian Kerner: Books


----------



## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

EleGirl said:


> One thing I find interesting is that in my mother's generation (she was born in 1921) most women did not give oral and most husbands did not expect it. Today most men consider it a must have.
> 
> How quickly things have changed in our society. It think online porn has a lot to do with this.


I somewhat disagree, but I think it goes both ways, to be honest.

I'm not old enough to firmly state this, but I'll hazard a guess that oral sex became more commonplace during the sexual revolution and the rise of feminism. And I mean for both sexes, not just oral sex on/for men.

Up to and including the middle of the last century, women had little to no power to speak of. They were wives and mothers and homemakers and cooks. I can't imagine a woman in the '30's speaking frankly with her husband about what she would like him to do in the bedroom, let alone how to do it.

Not to mention hygiene has come a long way in that time. I do believe there was the stigma of those areas (in both men and women) of being "unclean".

Oral sex has obviously always been done, as shown by ancient Greek, Indian, Chinese, etc. paintings and other art. But those were also generally free societies, and more paganistic. The rise of puritanical religions (which were brought over to the Americas) likely played a huge role in sexuality and gender roles, and it was not until, I'd say, the 60's that both men and women broke free of it.

Ironically enough, I'd actually say that the rise of sexual freedom has more to do with the mainstream-ization of pornography than the reverse.

In other words, I think the changing of how society views sex and gender roles occurred before porn, and porn is a result of our more positive views on sex. Not the other way around, as you have said.

My personal view is that oral sex is a PART of sex as a whole, just as kissing and touching is. It is not necessary, and it is not for everyone, which is fine. It also doesn't have to happen every time a couple has sex. But I honestly think that those (men and women) who hold this stigma against it are missing out on an important part of human sexuality, and usually for nothing other than a hangup one has. For example, a few of you have mentioned that you thoroughly dislike when a man grabs your head and moves you, basically using you as a sexual tool. We're not all like that. Oral sex on a man can be empowering to many women, when they are able to do what THEY want, and be in control. AS PIV sex is more often than not the man being in control, having some time where you, the woman, are dictating the speed, depth, and amount of time even, that isn't a bad thing. However if he feels the need to control you during this act, as well, then I can certainly see why some women develop a hatred towards it.

Furthermore, I've always been taught that performing oral sex on a woman is (almost) necessary as part of the whole act. We men are "ready to go" in 2 seconds flat. Women generally take longer to warm up physically - and mentally. Foreplay is extremely important for women, as is proper lubrication. Not to mention that many women take much longer to achieve an O, so the more assistance given, the better. I'd say that of either sex, it's women who require oral stimulation more than men. For us men, it's simply a different stimulation, and also very visual. Visual stimulation is important to us, whereas tactile stimulation is more important to women.

My wife will not perform oral sex as a stand-alone act, but she will do it as part of sex. Her reasons for not doing it on it's own are much the same as many of you feel about it, in that she feels used. I no longer argue this with her, as that is how she feels, and I respect it. No amount of me telling her that I don't at all view it as that, have any effect. She's my wife, and I love and respect her, and at no point would *I* feel comfortable using her, but it doesn't matter to her. I have offered (and would love) to give her oral sex and nothing more from time to time, but she won't accept that, either, as she says she wouldn't enjoy it because I'm not getting anything from it. No matter how much I tell her that I WOULD be getting pleasure from it, she won't budge. I mean, I've even told her that I can take care of myself while I'm doing it to her, and of course the opposite would be true (she could use her vibrator while she's performing oral on me). But nope. So at least her views on oral sex as a stand-alone act are equal!


----------



## GIM003 (Feb 5, 2014)

alexm;8928842
I have offered (and would love) to give her oral sex and nothing more from time to time said:


> It literally took me years to convince my wife that I wanted to give her oral. And then it took longer for her to accept it long enough to O. Don't give up!


----------



## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

GIM003 said:


> It literally took me years to convince my wife that I wanted to give her oral. And then it took longer for her to accept it long enough to O. Don't give up!


As a stand-alone act, or just in general?

Yeah, I don't quite get it! But perhaps she's thinking that if she can accept it, then she'll have to reciprocate... which isn't the case. Sometimes I'm in the mood, but tired or hurting or something, and just don't want to/can't physically exert myself.

I think (well, know) that my wife is definitely more of a PIV girl, anyway. She can O from oral easily, but I don't think she's fully satisfied unless there's PIV.

I won't give up, though!


----------



## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Not sure that counselling will help in this case. Counselling won't make your wife like bp's anymore that it would make me like anal. Never. Gonna. Happen. 

You just have to decide I guess, whether this is a deal breaker for you or not...is there any way to compromise? Do you know why she doesn't like it? Is she afraid you'll ejaculate in her mouth? Is her mouth too small? Has she had a bad experience before with oral?


----------



## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

frusdil said:


> Not sure that counselling will help in this case. Counselling won't make your wife like bp's anymore that it would make me like anal. Never. Gonna. Happen.
> 
> You just have to decide I guess, whether this is a deal breaker for you or not...is there any way to compromise? Do you know why she doesn't like it? Is she afraid you'll ejaculate in her mouth? Is her mouth too small? Has she had a bad experience before with oral?


I disagree. If it's a mental thing, a stigma, counselling can help. If it's a physical thing, then probably not.

However, given how OP's first post went, it doesn't appear as though his attitude towards it is any help to her. Counselling and communication with BOTH of them may help.

Right now, it appears as though they are complete opposites of the spectrum. He is saying it's mandatory and that he'll essentially punish her by withholding sex and affection. She is saying (I assume) that she has no desire to do it and doesn't care what he thinks. They need to meet in the middle somewhere and take each others feelings into account - something neither are doing at the moment. Counselling can help them meet in the middle on this.


----------



## MotoDude (Sep 15, 2010)

Isn't giving a blowjobs the woman have to enjoy it or want to do it. My ex doesnt and think it's gross. The woman I'm with now love it, and enjoy it. I dont even asked, she perform it herself and look forward to give me bj.

My ex dont like bj and hold sex against me. But if your woman understand you need sex but doesnt do bj, hell I'm happy with sex.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

MotoDude said:


> Isn't giving a blowjobs the woman have to enjoy it or want to do it. My ex doesnt and think it's gross. The woman I'm with now love it, and enjoy it. I dont even asked, she perform it herself and look forward to give me bj.
> 
> My ex dont like bj and hold sex against me. But if your woman understand you need sex but doesnt do bj, hell I'm happy with sex.


@MotoDude -


So the ex hated oral and used sex as a bartering tool that you never got or recieved rationed out scraps.

The new lady LOVES to give you oral even insists upon it, and the sex is an all you can eat buffet that she enjoys as much as you?

Life must be GREAT!!! :smthumbup:

I imagine there is no looking back for you?

Many of us TAM'ers get stuck looking back because we never moved on and gained a great sex life.


----------



## GIM003 (Feb 5, 2014)

alexm said:


> As a stand-alone act, or just in general?
> 
> Yeah, I don't quite get it! But perhaps she's thinking that if she can accept it, then she'll have to reciprocate... which isn't the case. Sometimes I'm in the mood, but tired or hurting or something, and just don't want to/can't physically exert myself.
> 
> ...


The act in general. She was concerned that I might find it unpleasant "down there". I told her that it was the taste/smell of raw sex, and who could not like that. She does not O easily and was concerned that I would expect it (putting a burden on her). I told her that the act can be enjoyed by both of us,just as a good sensation/fun thing to do. 

Find out what makes her reluctant and then find a solution. Actually, this is also what the OP needs to do.


----------



## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

My take is that bj's should have been discussed during engagement.

If she agreed to bj, then it's an issue.

Now, they're married. Not too late to talk about it.
Have a sit down. Discuss it.

Go from there.


----------



## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

lifeistooshort said:


> How exactly was he duped? In his own words she would blow him "very rarely". That's not a good tipoff? If you had a guy on here complaining that he got sex 3 times in two years of dating, married her anyway, and is now po'd he doesn't get sex would you claim he was duped? Or would you ask him why he would think it was going to get better with marriage?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Because rarely does not equal never on this planet.

She should have never given him hope that he would ever get blow jobs if she was just going to turn around years later and cut it off. It's BS.


----------



## Happyfamily (Apr 15, 2014)

If you cruise the Coping With Infidelity threads it is pretty clear the rule on affairs is that you do things you would not do with the spouse. Same with girls who find themselves with the NBA superstar basketball player, the rock star, the millionaire - blow job, no problem.

We observe that a blow job literally requires stooping. I think this is the truth that explains most of it. If there is even the slightest bit of resentment, you aren't going to stoop. If you idolize someone, you'll grovel like a puppy. 

If you don't have an attitude problem, this is a skill that can be learned to pull off in under three minutes if your husband hasn't just ejaculated to internet porn or something. It isn't an issue of physical difficulty. It is less effort than straight sex, which is why prostitutes prefer it to straight sex, and often charge less for it. 

We can go this far in a thread without women chiming in about why they refuse to stoop or making up hygiene issues (as if he can't take a bath!) because admitting you have an attitude problem makes you look less than perfect.

edit: My reasons for doing it often are that my husband loves it, and I get enjoyment out of it the same way I do when the three boys devour something I made them for dinner. Not a speck left on any plates. And if I want him to hi-step on something I want from him, this will do it.


----------



## louiswin (Nov 4, 2010)

I'm in a similar situation. Every once in a while I will get a nice BJ from my wife, but they are few and far in between. I go down on her a lot more than she goes down on me. It seems that if she doesn't ride me on top and achieve her O, then the sex act was a disaster.


----------



## MotoDude (Sep 15, 2010)

treyvion said:


> @MotoDude -
> 
> 
> So the ex hated oral and used sex as a bartering tool that you never got or recieved rationed out scraps.
> ...


I am not looking back...!!! I've never been happier in my life since I met my current woman. The kind of sex I get now is more then I get with my ex of 21 years. Hell, I even get a taste of the back door..whatever my fantasy she'll do it. :smthumbup:


----------



## louiswin (Nov 4, 2010)

MotoDude said:


> I am not looking back...!!! I've never been happier in my life since I met my current woman. The kind of sex I get now is more then I get with my ex of 21 years. Hell, I even get a taste of the back door..whatever my fantasy she'll do it. :smthumbup:


What a lucky guy you are! You're the man!


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

MotoDude said:


> I am not looking back...!!! I've never been happier in my life since I met my current woman. The kind of sex I get now is more then I get with my ex of 21 years. Hell, I even get a taste of the back door..whatever my fantasy she'll do it. :smthumbup:


I'm sorry, I'm just a man. The "lifestyle" that you have described is just how it has to be...


----------



## Frusty (May 25, 2014)

intheory said:


> Frusty,
> 
> Just to be practical, I'm asking two physical-related ?:
> 
> ...


Dear Intheory, I do not have any fungal infection. Whenever I ask my wife, she frowns and replies "Why do you want to disappoint yourself?" She does NOT want to talk about it at all..! So, how can I check with her why she does not like to give me BJ when she does not want to talk about it? I think, this is cruel. Atleast I have the right to know! Don't you think so?

Moreover, in our part of the world, we do not have sex before marriage. To add complexity, we met over the matrimony website as I live in some country and she lived in another country several thousand miles away. So, having sex physically was not possible. She was too beautiful for me to reject. We chatted online for hours together. But I did not know that she would not give me BJ! I do not expect her to be my private porn star. I expect that if not once a week, she can give me bj once a month. Is that too much? Even if she doesn't like, she has to take care of my happiness at least once a month...

Counselling is not possible as of now as the part of the world where we are now is not advanced and medical fees is too high. That was the reason I resorted to this website for some healthy suggestions. Somebody suggested that what if she wanted something that I do not like. I would have still done it atleast once a month, for her to be happy...


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Frusty said:


> Dear Intheory, I do not have any fungal infection. Whenever I ask my wife, she frowns and replies "Why do you want to disappoint yourself?" She does NOT want to talk about it at all..! So, how can I check with her why she does not like to give me BJ when she does not want to talk about it? I think, this is cruel. Atleast I have the right to know! Don't you think so?
> 
> Moreover, in our part of the world, we do not have sex before marriage. To add complexity, we met over the matrimony website as I live in some country and she lived in another country several thousand miles away. So, having sex physically was not possible. She was too beautiful for me to reject. We chatted online for hours together. But I did not know that she would not give me BJ! I do not expect her to be my private porn star. I expect that if not once a week, she can give me bj once a month. Is that too much? Even if she doesn't like, she has to take care of my happiness at least once a month...
> 
> Counselling is not possible as of now as the part of the world where we are now is not advanced and medical fees is too high. That was the reason I resorted to this website for some healthy suggestions. Somebody suggested that what if she wanted something that I do not like. I would have still done it atleast once a month, for her to be happy...


Oh goodness! We have no idea what HER background wrt sex is. But if you guys did not even know each other beforehand. Yah I would not feel all safe and cozy sticking it in my mouth either.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

^^^ Patience, caring, lots of love. And TIME.


----------



## Frusty (May 25, 2014)

jorgegene said:


> My take is that bj's should have been discussed during engagement.
> 
> If she agreed to bj, then it's an issue.
> 
> ...


I am always ready to discuss, but she frowns and DOES NOT want to discuss about BJ's at all! Whenever I talk about BJ's, she replies, "Why do you want to disappoint yourself?" And then her mood changes and she begins to fight over petty issues. Moreover, we did not engage. The marriage was done in a hurry... So couldn't get time to know the sexual inclination of each other. Though, we used to have cyber sex sometimes but the matter of NOT giving BJ didn't happen!


----------



## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> While I can understand how important this is to you, you're acting like a spoiled brat and that is what is called a Va-clamping behavior.
> 
> My pal GettingIt coined that term. When you behave like a d!ck it makes the vagina clamp shut!


It's VA-CLANG! Not va-clamp!

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


----------



## Frusty (May 25, 2014)

NobodySpecial said:


> Oh goodness! We have no idea what HER background wrt sex is. But if you guys did not even know each other beforehand. Yah I would not feel all safe and cozy sticking it in my mouth either.


I do not understand this point. By giving BJ, how a woman feels less secure/ safe? For me, sex is an act of love. If the foreplay is not there (yes, when she is in the mood, she would smooch for a min then put it in her). Is this the way sex has to be done? Its absolute nonsense! Now tell me who is being selfish? Do you really think any man would enjoy sex like this?


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Frusty said:


> I do not understand this point. By giving BJ, how a woman feels less secure/ safe?


Well let's start with the gag reflex that feels like drowning or being strangled. That is the physical element. Then we can talk about the element of being used as a toy for the gratification of someone else. When someone DEMANDS and REQUIRES an act like that it is so far from love it is not even funny.



> For me, sex is an act of love.


Well that is interesting. Do you love your wife? 



> If the foreplay is not there (yes, when she is in the mood, she would smooch for a min then put it in her). Is this the way sex has to be done? Its absolute nonsense! Now tell me who is being selfish? Do you really think any man would enjoy sex like this?


No. But how long have you been married? Of a marriage website. This person is a PERSON. All of it.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

NobodySpecial said:


> Well let's start with the gag reflex that feels like drowning or being strangled. That is the physical element. Then we can talk about the element of being used as a toy for the gratification of someone else. When someone DEMANDS and REQUIRES an act like that it is so far from love it is not even funny.


Yes, but does it have to be deepthroat? I can accept not all women will deepthroat.



NobodySpecial said:


> Well that is interesting. Do you love your wife?
> 
> 
> 
> No. But how long have you been married? Of a marriage website. This person is a PERSON. All of it.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Frusty said:


> Dear Intheory, I do not have any fungal infection. Whenever I ask my wife, she frowns and replies "Why do you want to disappoint yourself?" She does NOT want to talk about it at all..! So, how can I check with her why she does not like to give me BJ when she does not want to talk about it? I think, this is cruel. Atleast I have the right to know! Don't you think so?
> 
> Moreover, in our part of the world, we do not have sex before marriage. To add complexity, we met over the matrimony website as I live in some country and she lived in another country several thousand miles away. So, having sex physically was not possible. She was too beautiful for me to reject. We chatted online for hours together. But I did not know that she would not give me BJ! I do not expect her to be my private porn star. I expect that if not once a week, she can give me bj once a month. Is that too much? Even if she doesn't like, she has to take care of my happiness at least once a month...
> 
> Counselling is not possible as of now as the part of the world where we are now is not advanced and medical fees is too high. That was the reason I resorted to this website for some healthy suggestions. Somebody suggested that what if she wanted something that I do not like. I would have still done it atleast once a month, for her to be happy...


I like you wife. Her philosophy has an elegance about it. A simple, clean and serene honesty. 

Indeed "Why do you want to disappoint yourself?" I hope your answer did her question justice. This woman needs a man who can engage her intellect. Compared to her, your discussion of bj's seem rather crude, and pornographic. 

She may find irony in your willingness to have an orgasm once a week at her expense and talk about love. Can you look forwards to orgasms once a week with your wife clamped on your willy in obvious disgust? Is that love? 

I don't know the answer. But the question could not have escaped the mind of a woman as mentally agile as your wife. Do you watch lots of porn? Have you considered concentrating on mutual sexual satisfaction with your wife? 

She is really not required to hover your junk every week to make you happy. You can inspire her to want to make you happy. Do you give her oral sex to orgasm once a week with no orgasm for you. Just to show her that you love her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Oh I forgot. Clean out your navel every day with a q-tip. So many people forget this detail of personal hygiene.

It took 10 q-tips to clean my husband's navel the other day!! He forgets to do it. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Happyfamily (Apr 15, 2014)

Frusty said:


> I am always ready to discuss, but she frowns and DOES NOT want to discuss about BJ's at all! Whenever I talk about BJ's, she replies, "Why do you want to disappoint yourself?" And then her mood changes and she begins to fight over petty issues.


This is unreasonable and cruel: to refuse talking about a subject of importance to a spouse, and punish you for trying to communicate. 

Communication is everything in a relationship. The one thing you can guarantee about someone refusing to communicate: the honest answer makes them look pretty bad. Would they refuse to answer if it made them look kind and considerate? Of course not. 

lol. My husband has never used a q-tip on his belly button, nor have I. Ever. On either one of us.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Women are usually accused of bait and switch but no one acknowledges what she has had to put up with to get to that point.


Reading this triggered a thought. I was thinking back on my experiences (not just XW) and reading the recent posts here on how BJs are important, they're mainstream, sex isn't the same without them, etc.

So, I was wondering: is it possible that a fair number of women feel pressured to do sex acts not by any partner directly, but from competition and the desire to find a partner who is a good catch? And that pressure triggers resentment?


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Happyfamily said:


> This is unreasonable and cruel: to refuse talking about a subject of importance to a spouse, and punish you for trying to communicate.
> 
> Communication is everything in a relationship. The one thing you can guarantee about someone refusing to communicate: the honest answer makes them look pretty bad. Would they refuse to answer if it made them look kind and considerate? Of course not.


Agree. I also wonder about the larger question of what do the people who frequent these matrimoney sites expect from the spouse / marriage? Are these people just looking for their own needs to be met?

It seems like a big part of the issues are TAM are where an undersexed spouse is frustrated because he or she puts 100% into meeting his / her spouse's needs without reciprocity. I don't see how two people who barely know each other can claim this sort of commitment or the privileges that would result.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Indeed "Why do you want to disappoint yourself?"


I don't see this as a legitimate intellectual question.

Truthfully, I see this as just another way of saying "I'm never going to do that; get over it and move on".


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Happyfamily said:


> This is unreasonable and cruel: to refuse talking about a subject of importance to a spouse, and punish you for trying to communicate.
> 
> Communication is everything in a relationship. The one thing you can guarantee about someone refusing to communicate: the honest answer makes them look pretty bad. Would they refuse to answer if it made them look kind and considerate? Of course not.
> 
> lol. My husband has never used a q-tip on his belly button, nor have I. Ever. On either one of us.


I can't agree with this. They are no USian. They met on an online MARRIAGE (not dating) service. Their culture is one that does not include premarital sex. This is the closest thing to an arranged marriage that I can think of.

If I were that woman, I would want time to adjust from NO NO NO, you are a virginal woman to YES, YES, YES and goddammit give me blow jobs.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

NobodySpecial said:


> I can't agree with this. They are no USian. They met on an online MARRIAGE (not dating) service. Their culture is one that does not include premarital sex. This is the closest thing to an arranged marriage that I can think of.
> 
> If I were that woman, I would want time to adjust from NO NO NO, you are a virginal woman to YES, YES, YES and goddammit give me blow jobs.


Great point. Women have to develop into sexual beings by maturing, exploring, learning about what they like, and ultimately becoming comfortable being vulnerable with men, preferably their husbands. It's unreasonable to think you can suppress this development until marriage, when all of a sudden a switch flips and she becomes a crazy wh0re with a husband she barely knows. Maybe time with a patient husband who's not acting line a petulant child could be the answer here.

I don't think at this point I'd even bring it up anymore. She knows he wants them so continuing to pressure her isn't going to accomplish anything. Unless he's actually prepared to end the marriage over it, and even then while he might pressure her enough to get a bj..it's only going to breed resentment on her part. For this to be successful she either needs to want to do it or be willing to do it as an act of love.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

DTO said:


> I don't see this as a legitimate intellectual question.
> 
> Truthfully, I see this as just another way of saying "I'm never going to do that; get over it and move on".


He ignored perfectly good suggestions - i.e. - to let his wife go first and make sure she is aroused and satisfied before the possibility of a bj is broached. It's not wise to ignore advice but really unwise when it's good. Not surprising - there is never a response.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

DTO said:


> Reading this triggered a thought. I was thinking back on my experiences (not just XW) and reading the recent posts here on how BJs are important, they're mainstream, sex isn't the same without them, etc.
> 
> So, I was wondering: is it possible that a fair number of women feel pressured to do sex acts not by any partner directly, but from competition and the desire to find a partner who is a good catch? And that pressure triggers resentment?


I have limited dating experience so I can't say from personal experience. 

But what do you think ? 

From what I am reading, it is common practice for a man to expect a bj when he himself is aroused but he is uncertain or unaware of the state of his partner's sexual arousal. 

For him, it is a normal sexual expectation - something women "gift" him because he craves them. It's kind of like a wedding gift. No one would come to a wedding empty handed. Likewise, no woman would come to her wedding without mad skills.


----------



## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

All I know is that my wife would be some kind of pissed off if I decided that cunnilingus was no longer on the menu.


----------



## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

GTdad said:


> All I know is that my wife would be some kind of pissed off if I decided that cunnilingus was no longer on the menu.


Agreed. Oral is a deal breaker for some. Like me.

If I had known my wife would turn off the faucet of BJ's I would have never married her. Seems petty but there it is.

BJ's are the bee's knee's people. The bee's knees.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

DTO said:


> Reading this triggered a thought. I was thinking back on my experiences (not just XW) and reading the recent posts here on how BJs are important, they're mainstream, sex isn't the same without them, etc.
> 
> So, I was wondering: is it possible that a fair number of women feel pressured to do sex acts not by any partner directly, but from competition and the desire to find a partner who is a good catch? And that pressure triggers resentment?


Maybe this is the way it has to be.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

sinnister said:


> Agreed. Oral is a deal breaker for some. Like me.
> 
> If I had known my wife would turn off the faucet of BJ's I would have never married her. Seems petty but there it is.
> 
> BJ's are the bee's knee's people. The bee's knees.


When you have alot of sex but no BJ's, BJ's raise in importance...

But when you have alot of BJ's, and alot of sex over time they lose their "novelty", but are still very nice.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> Great point. Women have to develop into sexual beings by maturing, exploring, learning about what they like, and ultimately becoming comfortable being vulnerable with men, preferably their husbands. It's unreasonable to think you can suppress this development until marriage, when all of a sudden a switch flips and she becomes a crazy wh0re with a husband she barely knows. Maybe time with a patient husband who's not acting line a petulant child could be the answer here.
> 
> I don't think at this point I'd even bring it up anymore. She knows he wants them so continuing to pressure her isn't going to accomplish anything. Unless he's actually prepared to end the marriage over it, and even then while he might pressure her enough to get a bj..it's only going to breed resentment on her part. For this to be successful she either needs to want to do it or be willing to do it as an act of love.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



And pressure has never been a very good communication tactic, I might add. No one ever said Oh gee, you are going to nag and pressure me? Well I feel so much better talking to you now!


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

treyvion said:


> When you have alot of sex but no BJ's, BJ's raise in importance...
> 
> But when you have alot of BJ's, and alot of sex over time they lose their "novelty", but are still very nice.





treyvion said:


> Maybe this is the way it has to be.





sinnister said:


> Agreed. Oral is a deal breaker for some. Like me.
> 
> If I had known my wife would turn off the faucet of BJ's I would have never married her. Seems petty but there it is.
> 
> BJ's are the bee's knee's people. The bee's knees.


It's interesting that I have never ever been able to engage men in a discussion about "she goes first" with oral sex. There is never a comment in response to arousal question before or after bj. Or about the propriety of a cold call. 

The demands assumes that men still have all of the power in the relationship - women need to take what they get. She gives him a gift or she gets punished. It is one of the strangest attitude towards a sex act that men claim is should be given out of love and accepted with the same emotion. But that not true. :scratch head:


Men are not in control, they are controlled and the act has nothing to do with love. It's an intensely addicting pleasure. It's the meth of sex. 

Men give up their power, fall in love and commit to women who give them enthusiastically. These situations are thought of as scarce so bj have taken the place of PIV sex of the 50's. Once addicted, irregular, infrequent bj keeps them controlled. Not good. 

It's better not to be controlled by them. Make it a mutually satisfying experience or not at all. If you are addicted, don't marry, become financially entangled and have children. You can easily walk away when they stop and find another mouth.


----------



## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> It's interesting that I have never ever been able to engage men in a discussion about "she goes first" with oral sex.


Why?

"She comes first" sums up the sexual relationship between my wife and myself. It took about three months to wear down her puritanical aversions to cunnilingus, but it was smooth sailing after that because it is really the only route to 'O' for her.

On the other hand, I've never experienced fellatio in my life and quite likely, never will.


----------



## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

Now my husband loves me very much, and i know he would never leave me ( I hope not)..... But being honest i am not sure my husband could live without his... Its his fav... I think he would faint if i told him i was never going to give him another one, He would probably start having a panic attack, It would feel like the end of the world.

Now, I know that a wife should not be forced to do anything she does not want to do, but i think a wife should also consider her husbands feelings, wants, and needs too, and to be fair on you, its not like shes never gave you one, and its not something new to her.

She has done this in the past for you on numerous occasions, and all of a sudden shes just stopped, and decided she no longer wants to do this, but what about you???..... You have just got to accept that she no longer wants to do this.... stop getting something you enjoy, and something you clearly want... I think shes a little selfish.

There are things i like, but my husband doesn't, but he does them because its something i like and enjoy.... a bit of give and take that is what its all about


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

ocotillo said:


> Why?
> 
> "She comes first" sums up the sexual relationship between my wife and myself. It took about three months to wear down her puritanical aversions to cunnilingus, but it was smooth sailing after that because it is really the only route to 'O' for her.
> 
> On the other hand, I've never experienced fellatio in my life and quite likely, never will.


Why are you so pessimistic? You were skilled enough to get her accept oral sex on her and enjoy it. What have you tried. 

Don't expect her to give you a full bj first time out. Why act she start slowly. Just tongue first, mouth for short period on different parts. Then part of forplay. That's how I started and learned. 

Be relaxed and gentle. If you were good enough to guve her the joy of oral sex, she can get to like bj too. Try. Be as persistent as you were for her. Always make it


----------



## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

And sinnister does have a point, you do know what kind of things your partner likes before you decide to marry and spend your life with someone....

You weigh all the things up before you decide to make the commitment to spend your life with that person.

Its a little unfair just to decide you know longer want to do something your partner enjoys so much...

For some people it would be a deal breaker.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

melw74 said:


> Now my husband loves me very much, and i know he would never leave me ( I hope not)..... But being honest i am not sure my husband could live without his... Its his fav... I think he would faint if i told him i was never going to give him another one, He would probably start having a panic attack, It would feel like the end of the world.
> 
> Now, I know that a wife should not be forced to do anything she does not want to do, but i think a wife should also consider her husbands feelings, wants, and needs too, and to be fair on you, its not like shes never gave you one, and its not something new to her.
> 
> ...


I agree. I deleted the rest of my post I don't think it would help. We are early on in the marriage. I can only hope that I don't make my husband miserable in the future.


----------



## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Why are you so pessimistic?


Well Catherine, I've been married nearly 41 years and her obscure little branch of Christianity teaches that it is a sin.

This isn't quite the complaint it might appear to be. Even though I was only 19, I did understand what I was getting into. 

Besides, how can you miss that which you've never had?


----------



## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

Hey OP, I'm there with you. In my case it was a 'wait for marriage' promise. All the while, she certainly enjoyed all of my oral attentions. 

Stupidly, in the early years of our marriage, I pressured once and a while - of course to no avail. A decade later I tried asking nicely 'why not' (even covered) - silence/don't want to? I believe it comes down to power.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

HomeFrontDadAndMore said:


> Hey OP, I'm there with you. In my case it was a 'wait for marriage' promise. All the while, she certainly enjoyed all of my oral attentions.
> 
> Stupidly, in the early years of our marriage, I pressured once and a while - of course to no avail. A decade later I tried asking nicely 'why not' (even covered) - silence/don't want to? I believe it comes down to power.


So she feels she will lose power submitting to you orally?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

NobodySpecial said:


> And pressure has never been a very good communication tactic, I might add. No one ever said Oh gee, you are going to nag and pressure me? Well I feel so much better talking to you now!


Right? It never solves the real problem. Another big issue these repressed cultures have is that while women are sexually repressed until marriage men are still looking at porn, so in addition to being sexually frustrated they develop ideas about what they're going to be entitled to as married men. So you have a sexually frustrated groom with big ideas and a sexually repressed wife; it's almost inevitable that there will be some bumps in this road. Lots of love, communication, and patience is required here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

GettingIt said:


> It's VA-CLANG! Not va-clamp!
> 
> :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


:rofl:

I am on the floor laughing!!!!


----------



## Frusty (May 25, 2014)

treyvion said:


> Yes, but does it have to be deepthroat? I can accept not all women will deepthroat.


I agree with Trevion. I never asked to deepthroat. I simply ask her to give bj on the head and an extra length.. whatever is possible. I even gave her the option to use flavoured condom if she does not like the taste of pre cum. Then, she does not want sex with lights on, i must keep my mouth shut while making love, and as i already mentioned... no or very little foreplay. This is being self centered snd selfish. Satisfying her sexual needs and undermining mine. Are all the rules going to be defined by the woman? Is it justified? Come on, get over with your "save women" campaign and be neutral in analysing the situation...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Frusty said:


> I agree with Trevion. I never asked to deepthroat. I simply ask her to give bj on the head and an extra length.. whatever is possible. I even gave her the option to use flavoured condom if she does not like the taste of pre cum. Then, she does not want sex with lights on, i must keep my mouth shut while making love, and as i already mentioned... no or very little foreplay. This is being self centered snd selfish. Satisfying her sexual needs and undermining mine. Are all the rules going to be defined by the woman? Is it justified? Come on, get over with your "save women" campaign and be neutral in analysing the situation...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Boy you have some restrictions... I can imagine it being a huge impedent to a satisfying sexlife. Thing about it is many of us would have a huge increase given your restrictions. Cant moan while sex? I feel for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Frusty (May 25, 2014)

NobodySpecial said:


> Well let's start with the gag reflex that feels like drowning or being strangled. That is the physical element. Then we can talk about the element of being used as a toy for the gratification of someone else. When someone DEMANDS and REQUIRES an act like that it is so far from love it is not even funny.
> 
> 
> Well that is interesting. Do you love your wife?
> ...


This person is a person... who am I? Its easy to justify your reasons and undermine others. I have gone through the comments of few women here and it seems that they are self proclaimed champions of women's rights... Justifying the selfishness as one's right is something that cant be accepted. Do you want the situation like women should make all the rules and if the man wants something then he is being cruel/ selfish/ petulnt/ what not? I once again urge you to kindly peruse my points again and think before advocating women. I sm not against her, she is my wife. But dictating terms in sex and being justified by others is extremely unfortunate.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Frusty (May 25, 2014)

Catherine602 said:


> I agree. I deleted the rest of my post I don't think it would help. We are early on in the marriage. I can only hope that I don't make my husband miserable in the future.


I am happy that because of me (even though indirectly) another human being would experience pleasure. Thank god and a big thanks to this forum... ^^
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

treyvion said:


> So she feels she will lose power submitting to you orally?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's all I can come up with. The only other thought was that long ago she got dumped by a BF (I caught her in rebound) after maybe giving him one???


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Fursty I asked you some questions in earlier post and made some suggestions. You did not address any of them. I thought they would be helpful because I was very inhibited when I first got married. 

You are not confident that you can solve this problem. I am confident you might if you changed your approach. Not your frustration, which is a normal human response but approach, that is all. 

If she does not like lights on it may be that she can't concentrate with blaring illumination and will therefore not enjoy sex. What should she do? You can try low light. 

There are very nice artificial candles that turn off automatically. They are very nice. you can use 3 -4 to give a nice low light. try one candle first then add more after a few days. 

Do you satisfy her before you expect bj? Is the bj part of love-making for both of you or something you expect her to do for you? Do you give her oral sex? Do you do it on demand and not get an orgasm for yourself? 

Your wife may not see that stating her preferences as dictating terms. I would imagine, like you, she expects to fully enjoy the experience and not do things that bring you pleasure but take away hers. You don't do that for her do you? 

You get an orgasm and enjoy sex when you have it, right. She wants the same, ill bet. Make sure every thing you do brings you both pleasure. If you want her to do things that take away from her pleasure than do the same for yourself so you see how it feels.


Don't make it a power struggle. You can't win. Consider your wife part of a team. Expect to make adjustments for her to have satisfying sex. Compromise. If she can't have things all her way you can't either. In what other ways can you compromise and both be happy?


----------



## Frusty (May 25, 2014)

Catherine602 said:


> Fursty I asked you some questions in earlier post and made some suggestions. You did not address any of them. I thought they would be helpful because I was very inhibited when I first got married.
> 
> You are not confident that you can solve this problem. I am confident you might if you changed your approach. Not your frustration, which is a normal human response but approach, that is all.
> 
> ...


Catherine, I am using a mobil device to read the stuff in here. It is very difficult to go through 7 pages of elaborate discussion but I would try to answer your questions. However, i do not want to go in drpth in public for obvious reasons. Anyway, I do give her orals. She enjoys when I do but she is not enthusiastic about them. Cleaning navel and candle are good ideas. Would try that. Thanks. However, she complaind that too much oral dries her up and she doesnt want to use lubricants. Also one more frustrating thing is that she wants to have sex ONLY in missionary position. All these restrictions make me mad. Theb she does not want to talk about it...!! :-(
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Frusty said:


> Catherine, I am using a mobil device to read the stuff in here. It is very difficult to go through 7 pages of elaborate discussion but I would try to answer your questions. However, i do not want to go in drpth in public for obvious reasons. Anyway, I do give her orals. She enjoys when I do but she is not enthusiastic about them. Cleaning navel and candle are good ideas. Would try that. Thanks. However, she complaind that too much oral dries her up and she doesnt want to use lubricants. Also one more frustrating thing is that she wants to have sex ONLY in missionary position. All these restrictions make me mad. Theb she does not want to talk about it...!! :-(
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How long have you been married?

Stop acting angry. Sex with an angry man is not pleasant. Have faith in yourself. You can fail at first but does that stop you. Try another way slowly. 

Start small and build. Read my suggestion about bj and how to take small steps. If she wants you to stop oral at some point then stop. 

Think of it this way, don't go for total control but cooperation. If she gets dry, why go on? She is not enjoying the experience. If you continue, she thinks that you don't care about her and she will not trust yiu. Build trust. The positions. Try full body contact positions first before the doggy or her on top. 

Sex in spooning position, with you on top her face down. Slowly over weeks lift up from her caress her. Make sex loving and about mutual satisfaction. 

Women who are orgasmic and satisfied are more willing to try different things as long as it does not take away from their orgasms. I am certain you can understand that. 

When she trust that you will take care of her, and not ignore her pleasure, she may be more willing to try different things.

Don't talk so much.


----------



## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

sinnister said:


> Agreed. Oral is a deal breaker for some. Like me.
> 
> If I had known my wife would turn off the faucet of BJ's I would have never married her. Seems petty but there it is.
> 
> BJ's are the bee's knee's people. The bee's knees.


BJ's are my sexual litmus test with women. I've found that if they don't like giving them, or even simply won't, that sex in other areas is sure to suffer and wane as time goes on. That may not be true for some, but IME it's been a pretty good indicator. 

If you can't live without them, and she doesn't want to give them, the answer is simple. Leave. To do otherwise is to subject yourself to frustration, resentment, and all the poison those things carry into a relationship. 

Young, boring sex, and no kids. It won't get better. Especially once kids come along. Better to leave such a situation too soon, rather than too late. 

I've lived with sexual frustration with my ex out of "need" (a child). Never again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TopsyTurvy5 (Nov 16, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> How long have you been married?
> 
> Stop acting angry. Sex with an angry man is not pleasant. Have faith in yourself. You can fail at first but does that stop you. Try another way slowly.
> 
> ...


So, to paraphrase, he needs to bend over backwards, accommodate her in a variety of ways, she does next to nothing, and then if he is lucky "she may be more willing". Uh, this is ridiculous. A marriage is a two way street. What is she doing to help meet her husband's needs?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Frusty said:


> Anyway, I do give her orals. She enjoys when I do but she is not enthusiastic about them. Cleaning navel and candle are good ideas. Would try that. Thanks. However, she complaind that too much oral dries her up and she doesnt want to use lubricants. Also one more frustrating thing is that she wants to have sex ONLY in missionary position. All these restrictions make me mad. Theb she does not want to talk about it...!! :-(
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The more I read, the more it appears that she's just not that into you, OP.

Here's what I/we know:

You met on a marriage website
You got married in short order, with little to no dating
No sex before marriage
BUT there was cybersex
There were infrequent BJ's before marriage
After marriage, it is a non-starter for her
Sex is (apparently) boring, as there are LOTS of rules

This leads me to believe she's not into you for one of two reasons:

- now that she's with you on a daily basis, she realizes that you just don't do it for her physically (less likely)

- now that she's with you on a daily basis, she realizes that you just don't do it for her emotionally or mentally (more likely)

I say this because most non-sexual women will not have cybersex and otherwise fool around with somebody, regardless of what may be at stake. Cybersex is (generally) for the sexually adventurous and/or unshy personality types, particularly when it's with somebody they don't know all THAT well (as was your case)

Assuming you are her first, she may feel quite underwhelmed and was expecting more. With no experience prior to you, she may have been expecting fireworks and rainbows. She has nothing to compare to, which is not a good thing, in my opinion. I strongly believe that having SOME experience is necessary to figure out what you like, as everybody is different.

Rules in the bedroom such as lights off, missionary only, no reciprocal foreplay, etc. means there's no attraction, most of the time.

My ex wife and I used to have decent, normal sex, which gradually waned to no foreplay (for either of us), missionary position, or later on, only from behind (ostensibly so she didn't have to look at me), as well as no kissing, etc. After she left me (for another man), she filled me in that she hadn't been attracted to me in years and thought of me more as a friend or brother than a husband, hence the serious aversion to having proper, actual sex.

Some women (and men) are less adventurous in bed than others, but when it reaches levels such as yours, and me with my ex wife, there's trouble there. That's not a case of not being adventurous, that's a tell-tale sign of no attraction, I'm afraid.

If it's not a case of her not being physically attracted to you, and you're sure of that, then good. That means it's mental/emotional, which you can change and work on.


----------



## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> It's interesting that I have never ever been able to engage men in a discussion about "she goes first" with oral sex. There is never a comment in response to arousal question before or after bj. Or about the propriety of a cold call.


Perhaps you need to hang with other men then.

I cannot recall an incident where I received a BJ that wasn't reciprocated before or after - about half the time it is both before AND after. I love performing oral. I do it nearly every time we have sex, and I know what will bring my wife to orgasm. Around the middle of her cycle I'll taker her there twice per encounter.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Frusty said:


> This person is a person... who am I? Its easy to justify your reasons and undermine others. I have gone through the comments of few women here and it seems that they are self proclaimed champions of women's rights... Justifying the selfishness as one's right is something that cant be accepted. Do you want the situation like women should make all the rules and if the man wants something then he is being cruel/ selfish/ petulnt/ what not? I once again urge you to kindly peruse my points again and think before advocating women. I sm not against her, she is my wife. But dictating terms in sex and being justified by others is extremely unfortunate.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I was offering a potential solution to your problem. I can guarantee you that the attitude you have will not help lighten up you wife. You will be forced to accept it or force her. Maybe you live in a culture where you can do the latter. And maybe that would be ok for you. In that case, you would be a monster. 

Have you ever tried to look at it from her point of view?


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

^^ I come at this a different way. I was raised Catholic. With all the guilt that that implies with an extra helping slapped on by my Mom's own repressed feelings about sex.

Had my husband come at me with a laundry list instead of the great love he came with, we would not be married today. Forget about the awesome sex life with everything on the table. Or on any surface in the house!


----------



## TopsyTurvy5 (Nov 16, 2013)

NobodySpecial said:


> I was offering a potential solution to your problem. I can guarantee you that the attitude you have will not help lighten up you wife. You will be forced to accept it or force her. Maybe you live in a culture where you can do the latter. And maybe that would be ok for you. In that case, you would be a monster.
> 
> Have you ever tried to look at it from her point of view?


So why is it entirely on the husband's shoulders to "fix" this? What is his wife doing to address his needs not being met? Because she doesn't want to do something, she is in control and the power imbalance favors her. I'm sorry but I see this as a two way street. If she knows this bothers him, she has a responsibility to address it in some way, not sit back and wait for him to "make her" feel more comfortable.


----------



## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Before buying a car, it is recommended you take it for a test drive. Do not buy a car sight unseen, off the internet. Check each feature before agreeing to make a purchase.

Here's the thing man. You married a chick (virgin?) from a foreign land who had no sexual experience, doesn't like or want to give blow jobs for any number of reasons (physical, emotional). Now there is tremendous pressure on her by you to give you a blow job. Is that what you want? A duty blow job, once a month, mark it on the calendar? Could you even get off from a duty blow job? I've been with girls who sucked at giving blow jobs (pun intended). I couldn't get off. Gets to the point I would rather not get them and do other things.

So here's your decision: do you want to be married to a girl that refuses to give you blowjobs, be married to a girl that you demand give you sub-par blowjobs, or move on to someone you may be more compatible with? 

And next time around stay away from the arranged/internet marriages.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

you realize that blow jobs are not an actual need, right?


----------



## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

clipclop2 said:


> you realize that blow jobs are not an actual need, right?


Neither are medium-rare ribeyes, but I'd rather not live a life without those, either.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Frusty said:


> She does not give BJ's at all and it is really frustrating.
> 
> She used to blow me very rarely (literally, very rarely) earlier. But she has stopped it altogether


So she hardly ever gave you BJs and you thought she suddenly would after marriage? 

.
.
.


----------



## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> It's interesting that I have never ever been able to engage men in a discussion about "she goes first" with oral sex. There is never a comment in response to arousal question before or after bj. Or about the propriety of a cold call.
> 
> The demands assumes that men still have all of the power in the relationship - women need to take what they get. She gives him a gift or she gets punished. It is one of the strangest attitude towards a sex act that men claim is should be given out of love and accepted with the same emotion. But that not true. :scratch head:
> 
> ...


You have a keen mind. Sutble but effective.

But I assure you, I was, am and always will be a "she goes first" kind of guy.

My particular situation is unique because it's not a personal preference thing. She genuinely is disgusted by the THOUGHT of the act...not just with me. I never knew this until she shut of the option.

I've been around the block trying to figure out what I may have done to cause it. I'm a relatively clean guy...not allergic to soapy showers. I'm not huge - average length above average girth. And I love to start the fun by having my face firmly entrenched "down there" for her pleasure. I have also never had issues with previous encounters with other women (even though I haven't been with vary many).

I can't really classify my like for BJ's as an addiction. I do not have an addictive personality. The problem with all of this is the larger message it sends. I am not good enough. Not worthy. And I love myself enough to know that that is BS.


----------



## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

larry.gray said:


> Perhaps you need to hang with other men then.
> 
> I cannot recall an incident where I received a BJ that wasn't reciprocated before or after - about half the time it is both before AND after. I love performing oral. I do it nearly every time we have sex, and I know what will bring my wife to orgasm. Around the middle of her cycle I'll taker her there twice per encounter.


Same her LG. I love to aswell. She plays like it's no big deal too until her legs start convulsing....:scratchhead:

My wife is just not a sexual person.


----------



## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

It sounds like you're not only throwing the baby out with the bath water, OP, but also the bath itself... As a woman, I can tell you that your approach isn't going to work.

Rather talk to your W and tell her how much you crave oral sex and see if you can reach a compromise.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

larry.gray said:


> Perhaps you need to hang with other men then.
> 
> I cannot recall an incident where I received a BJ that wasn't reciprocated before or after - about half the time it is both before AND after. I love performing oral. I do it nearly every time we have sex, and I know what will bring my wife to orgasm. Around the middle of her cycle I'll taker her there twice per encounter.


  I don't ever hang out with men and discuss sex. Not counting the virtual guys here on TAM. I was talking about posts that I made on the subject.


----------



## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

clipclop2 said:


> you realize that blow jobs are not an actual need, right?


My husband would disagree:smthumbup:.... Its most definitely a need for him, and i am not joking either, I am being very serious.


----------



## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

And I could not think of anything worse than giving one while my husband wore a condom, Surely that is defeating the object. The actual thought makes me gag.


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Your husband's perception of a need is not congruent with the actual meaning of need. 

I think the OP is making a huge mistake to place everything on whether or not he gets a blowjob. I can understand his emotional feelings about her not wanting him in that way but that is something he needs to work out and logically dispel. she didn't suddenly stop giving them; she never liked giving them in the first place. 

when all is said and done this is really his own emotional issue and not hers. I suspect that if he discussed his emotional feelings about it she would feel sympathy. However that doesn't mean that she should do something she doesn't want to do and doesn't enjoy doing.


----------



## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

clipclop2 said:


> Your husband's perception of a need is not congruent with the actual meaning of need.
> 
> I think the OP is making a huge mistake to place everything on whether or not he gets a blowjob. I can understand his emotional feelings about her not wanting him in that way but that is something he needs to work out and logically dispel. she didn't suddenly stop giving them; she never liked giving them in the first place.
> 
> when all is said and done this is really his own emotional issue and not hers. I suspect that if he discussed his emotional feelings about it she would feel sympathy. However that doesn't mean that she should do something she doesn't want to do and doesn't enjoy doing.


LOL..... I what your saying..... Your right tho, Its not everything, I am just saying it must be hard for a man if its something he really enjoys, and all of a sudden it just stops, No she may not ever liked giving them, but she was..... and then it stopped just like that, and her husband had to just accept it.....

I am not sure if i would do something in the first place i never liked, as its just given him mixed signals.

I have a friend who absolutely hates em, so just does not give them simple as that, she has been with her man over 20 years, he knew this at the beginning, but still chose to be with her..... If it was something he really could not have gone without who knows.... Maybe he would not have got with her in the first place.

I just think that if its something that you've had, and then it stops, then it could piss someone off.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

TopsyTurvy5 said:


> So why is it entirely on the husband's shoulders to "fix" this? What is his wife doing to address his needs not being met? Because she doesn't want to do something, she is in control and the power imbalance favors her. I'm sorry but I see this as a two way street. If she knows this bothers him, she has a responsibility to address it in some way, not sit back and wait for him to "make her" feel more comfortable.





TopsyTurvy5 said:


> So, to paraphrase, he needs to bend over backwards, accommodate her in a variety of ways, she does next to nothing, and then if he is lucky "she may be more willing". Uh, this is ridiculous. A marriage is a two way street. What is she doing to help meet her husband's needs?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


His wife is not unhappy nor is she here. What should he do?


----------



## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

clipclop2 said:


> Your husband's perception of a need is not congruent with the actual meaning of need.


What is the meaning of need?


----------



## bkaydezz (Jul 9, 2012)

Woah!!!! Who is to say what another's need sexually is?!?!?!

If someone were to tell me my "NEEDS" were not my " NEEDS", not to mention wants of my SO, I would fall apart emotionally. That is ridiculous. If it brings you closer to your partner. You fulfill their needs, and at least attempt and work with what is out of your element. 

Yikes..

Growing together and exploring. Nothing wrong with that.

Lets toss SELFISH out of the equation.


----------



## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Wants.... Needs... Doesn't matter. There was a disconnect between the two of them from the time he ordered her over the internet.

He wants/needs blow jobs.

She cannot/ does not give blow jobs.

Caveat emptor. I assume he cannot return her whence she came, do not know the deal behind this international "marriage". So he's probably stuck.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

TopsyTurvy5 said:


> So why is it entirely on the husband's shoulders to "fix" this?


Because he is the one who came asking for advice? Because his actions are the only actions that he has the power to change? That his actions can very well have a powerful affect on her REactions?



> What is his wife doing to address his needs not being met?


We don't know. She is not the one posting here.


----------



## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

any spouse who refuses giving and receiving.......sucks!


----------



## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

chillymorn said:


> any spouse who refuses giving and receiving.......sucks!


I believe the issue at hand is that they DON'T! Personally, I feel if there are physical limitations, be it major back pain or horrible gag reflex (just examples), they shouldn't be expected to give. Truthfully, no one should be EXPECTED to give or receive oral. But saying it ducks if they don't give or recieve... I can fully understand certain circumstances. As for withholding sex because of it... no. That's plain stupid. (Note, I didn't say OP is stupid, but the idea of withholding sex is stupid). Withhold oral, yes. Like = like. Oral for oral.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

I'm wondering how this thread got to 9 pages already when he said in the first post that she very rarely gave bjs to begin with :scratchhead:

Usually the advice for that is: 

Well, you knew. Accept it or move on. 

She doesn't need to fix anything. She never implied to him that Bjs were going to be on the menu very often at all. 

This was a mistake on the OPs part by marrying someone he wasn't sexually compatible with. 

Sure you can do all sorts of things to try and coax her into doing it, but all that will get you is her resentment which will spill out into the rest of the marriage. No sex. No emotions. Nada. You'll live with a room mate. 

On the flip side, you will also build up resentment and become irritated...annoyed...etc. 

So, we are back to accept it or move on.


----------



## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

But, staarz, he WAS told that... a few pages ago. But, well, you know how these topics go...

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

I knew someone was going to ask the stupid question as to what is a need and who is to judge.

The only time anyone makes that kind of fool argument is when they aren't getting what they WANT.


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

BTW, I bet there are things she would like him to do that he doesn't or won't out conveniently ignores or forgets. Probably not sexual, but things she would like as well. Maybe even things she too would mistakingly term a need that he isn't fulfilling.

If this is so important to him then by all means he should divorce the botch for withholding air from his lungs and food from his stomach.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Wants.... Needs... Doesn't matter. There was a disconnect between the two of them from the time he ordered her over the internet.
> 
> He wants/needs blow jobs.
> 
> ...


Geez you mean he should send her back just because she won't give him bj? Remember, this is the person he married and is enjoying as a wife and companion. If that all she is worth? 

She could actually be an honorable human of superior quality. She could be a good wife according to this man's culture. She could be an excellent mother to their children, good to his mother and treat him very well. 

Why is it so easy to contemplate her disposal? Any failure to overvalue men is usually met with accusations of misandry. Haven forbid this man be asked to ruffle a feather to make sure his wife is getting as much pleasure as he is getting out of using her body. 

She should do whatever will give him a variety of paths to orgasms to keep him entertained. No one asked him if he explored how her pleasure would be effected by bright lights, acrobatics and polishing his penis with her mouth. 

But who cares. Sex is about the maximum pleasure he can derive from the windfall of having a woman's body all his own to use. After all he ordered her in that book. 

How terribly sad is that? You can't wonder why this woman and many other good women dismiss their husbands complaints so easily, right? Maybe she knows she is worth nothing to him as a person so he is worth nothing to her beyond what she can get out of him. It happens, people get what they give.

OP value your wife as a person, get to know and like her. Maybe she will want to get to know and like you.


----------



## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Maricha75 said:


> I believe the issue at hand is that they DON'T! Personally, I feel if there are physical limitations, be it major back pain or horrible gag reflex (just examples), they shouldn't be expected to give. Truthfully, no one should be EXPECTED to give or receive oral. But saying it ducks if they don't give or recieve... I can fully understand certain circumstances. As for withholding sex because of it... no. That's plain stupid. (Note, I didn't say OP is stupid, but the idea of withholding sex is stupid). Withhold oral, yes. Like = like. Oral for oral.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


If I give I think its reasonable to expect to receive. just like everything in life. If I buy thoughtful gifts I would expect to receive the same. or eventually you quit giving thoughtful gifts.

of course there are always exceptions such as your examples.


----------



## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

ocotillo said:


> What is the meaning of need?


Maybe the OP wants to feel deep sexual acceptance through the loving submission of oral to completion by his wife. In his mind it IS a need.


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

People believe a lot of things that are not true. His erroneous belief is the problem.


----------



## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

clipclop2 said:


> People believe a lot of things that are not true. His erroneous belief is the problem.


I am sorry I don't understand your post. Can you elaborate? 

Thank you


----------



## TopsyTurvy5 (Nov 16, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> His wife is not unhappy nor is she here. What should he do?


Bend over backward to only address her needs like some are suggesting?

He needs to talk to her about this issue and let her know this is a huge issue that needs to be addressed. They need to work together to find a solution. He should not be held responsible for sacrificing his needs and wants while his wife does nothing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TopsyTurvy5 (Nov 16, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> Geez you mean he should send her back just because she won't give him bj? Remember, this is the person he married and is enjoying as a wife and companion. If that all she is worth?
> 
> She could actually be an honorable human of superior quality. She could be a good wife according to this man's culture. She could be an excellent mother to their children, good to his mother and treat him very well.
> 
> ...


So what would you suggest he do besides put his needs/wants out of the picture? He is supposed to just deal with it? She has all these other qualities, so forget about something you want?

So, if I stopped wanting to have any meaningful conversations with my wife, she should just be okay with it because I have lots of other great traits? 

At some point, something is important enough to you to stand up and request more. If you tell your spouse that something is important to you and they choose not to address that issue, what's left?


----------



## TopsyTurvy5 (Nov 16, 2013)

clipclop2 said:


> BTW, I bet there are things she would like him to do that he doesn't or won't out conveniently ignores or forgets. Probably not sexual, but things she would like as well. Maybe even things she too would mistakingly term a need that he isn't fulfilling.
> 
> If this is so important to him then by all means he should divorce the botch for withholding air from his lungs and food from his stomach.


So what your saying is, it is probable that she is punishing him in a passive-aggressive manner because she is happy with something he is not doing.

And it's his fault?


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> I have limited dating experience so I can't say from personal experience.
> 
> But what do you think ?
> 
> ...


I do think it is a real phenomenon. Although I'm not a subject matter expert, my personal experience, conversation snippets I have heard, and posts on TAM and other forums ("why is sex so important?", "when I don't have sex, he/she treats me differently") are too numerous to ignore.

I totally agree that it is a common expectation upon marriage. And I don't have a problem with it. Both spouses have "givens" for marriage: monogamy, financial support, kindness, emotional closeness, etc. I don't see sexual needs as any different.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> So she hardly ever gave you BJs and you thought she suddenly would after marriage?
> 
> .
> .
> .


I see your point but...

Isn't it also reasonable that you expect your spouse to be better able to meet your needs as time goes on and you know each other increasingly more?


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

lifeistooshort said:


> Right? It never solves the real problem. Another big issue these repressed cultures have is that while women are sexually repressed until marriage men are still looking at porn, so in addition to being sexually frustrated they develop ideas about what they're going to be entitled to as married men. So you have a sexually frustrated groom with big ideas and a sexually repressed wife; it's almost inevitable that there will be some bumps in this road. Lots of love, communication, and patience is required here.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Another issue I've heard mentioned is that not only is sex not portrayed as a positive, the realities of building a sex life are not taught.

One issue I have seen on occassion is that people expected sex to be effortless. These people were not taught that sex is work. It is not automatically good. You have to practice to be good.


----------



## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

chillymorn said:


> any spouse who refuses giving and receiving.......sucks!


Isn't sucking the whole concept of this thread:lol:


----------



## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

chillymorn said:


> Maricha75 said:
> 
> 
> > I believe the issue at hand is that they DON'T! Personally, I feel if there are physical limitations, be it major back pain or horrible gag reflex (just examples), they shouldn't be expected to give. Truthfully, no one should be EXPECTED to give or receive oral. But saying it ducks if they don't give or recieve... I can fully understand certain circumstances. As for withholding sex because of it... no. That's plain stupid. (Note, I didn't say OP is stupid, but the idea of withholding sex is stupid). Withhold oral, yes. Like = like. Oral for oral.
> ...


Well, see, there's the difference between you and me... I don't give gifts with the expectation if getting a similarly priced/type of gift back. I give because I like to see how happy it makes them.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Maricha75 said:


> Well, see, there's the difference between you and me... I don't give gifts with the expectation if getting a similarly priced/type of gift back. I give because I like to see how happy it makes them.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


Indeed. Of course, if you give and never get - meaning being on the receiving end of an effort to make you happy, *too* - eventually you'll probably stop feeling the pleasure of giving and start to feel taken for granted or used.

As for the OP's issue, they seem sexually incompatible. It was probably a mistake to marry, and can be undone fairly easily at this point (and the sooner, the better), if they can't negotiate a compromise. Even if it were bait and switch, the same reasoning applies.


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

*Re: Re: Wife does not give BJ's at all*



TopsyTurvy5 said:


> So what your saying is, it is probable that she is punishing him in a passive-aggressive manner because she is happy with something he is not doing.
> 
> And it's his fault?


You misread me totally.

What I am saying is that she likely doesn't get everything she wants either. Is she making any of those things the number one determinant of marital satisfaction? Or does she accept that you can't always get what you want and that what she gets is good enough?

People need to get off this entitled garbage. 

His obsessing over blowjobs is building up the problem into something unreasonable. And that is his problem and unfortunately a potential marriage wrecker. He should tell his mom he wants to leave his wife because she doesn't like going down on him. I'm sure mom will find this reasonable. Dad probably will too. Just like I am sure most of our parents would.

What is the OP doing to exacerbate his issue? How much BJ porn does he watch that causes him to feel even more ill done by?

Are the guys that think he should dump his wife married? Are they married to women who do everything they desire sexually? How about in other areas? 

This porn society has produced a bunch of men who just don't get that reality isn't reflected in porn and to expect their spouse to do things they don't like or want is selfish and hurtful. The message it sends is very unflattering about them and about how they view women. It tells a wife or a girlfriend their true value. 

And in the same entitled breath these guys are upset when a woman will do something for them even though they don't enjoy it. It isn't just getting it that's enough. The woman has to really want it, too. You can't please some people because they can't see past themselves. 

Immaturity.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Hi all,

By way of background, several years ago I spent much time trying to break through my XW's serious sexual hangups. I didn't succeed, but did learn quite a bit. I think many folks here are overthinking this issue. My sense is:

* There are people who meet their spouse's sexual needs (either because they like sex or they strive to make their spouses happy in that regard), and those that don't.

* Those that don't do not have commensurately lower expectations for their own (non-sexual needs). People who don't meet their spouses needs in the bedroom are just as demanding outside the bedroom as people who do.

* LD people justify this mismatch between their high standards and low giving. They say a sex life should not require work. Or, the LD person arbitrarily defines sexual "wants" (a personal problem not subject to marital give and take) and "relationship needs". Or they deem sex unimportant and not worthy of sacrificing other goals and endeavors.

* Justification is the way people are wired. The alternative is accepting they are selfish and most are too uncomfortable with that self image. The problem with this instinct to protect the self, along with LD, is that these sexual problems generally don't resolve happily. And, when they do, it is because the LD spouse gains empathy and a desire to please, not an increase in drive. (Note: this is why people not happy unless their partner lusts for them just wind up spinning their wheels).

* A dislike for oral sex (or any activity other than PIV) does not exist alone. Typically, it is one part of an overall unsatisfying sex life marked by lack of engagement, low frequency, lack of foreplay, and lack of activities other than intercourse.

So, here, the overwhelming likelihood is that the wife just not into sex. She has found a way to justify to herself the lack of attention to his needs. If he's lucky, he might get her to agree to do them because he likes them. More likely, things will get worse from here on out.

On the off chance that he is doing something to turn her off, he can just lay off the requests and focus on her for a period of time. If after six months or so he hasn't seen an increase in her desire to please him, he can reasonably consider things to be as good as they ever will be and act accordingly.


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

What do expectations outside of the bedroom have to do with those from inside? Sex isn't a reward for good behavior and being good to your spouse doesn't BUY sex.

Why does the LD's definition get called arbitrary? They lay out their boundaries. Isn't it arbitrary to call sometimes boundary the problem and not accept that their own desires are just as culpable in the overall issue?

Nobody HAS to perform sexual acts they do not like. Asking someone to "negotiate" for it is one thing. But having the term negotiate actually mean the other person has to in some way give you what you want is another.

People negotiate when they both want something. If she doesn't want to blow the guy, upon what basis should she negotiate? 

I agree regarding empathy but you aren't talking about empathy alone. Guilt perhaps. But you will be hard pressed to find a woman who will feel empathy for a man who demands certain sexiual acts knowing how bad they make her feel. So it isn't just on the LD partner to have understanding.

A person who doesn't want to engage in certain sexual acts doesn't have to justify anything. 

What if she wanted to do him with a strap on? Would it be OK for him to refuse? Would his reasoning be considered justification or would it be considered valid and acceptable? Arbitrary would be for him to be able to refuse her yet dismissing her refusal as something more sinister.


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

And by the way, where do you arrive at the belief that a dislike for oral doesn't exist alone? Which partner is dissatisfied in your supposition? There are stories on TAM where the woman is quite happy with certain acts and is enthusiastic about them and yet the husband can only see what she isn't into. He is the one who is dissatisfied.


----------



## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

DTO said:


> I see your point but...
> 
> Isn't it also reasonable that you expect your spouse to be better able to meet your needs as time goes on and you know each other increasingly more?


No. Not in this case. This is oral sex we are talking about, not mowing the lawn with straight lines. 

Sex is very intimate. People are comfortable at their own level of things which they decide they can do. 

His wife was NEVER comfortable doing it. It's not expected she would change that behavior. 

It's like saying that a woman or man has sex a lot with his/her SO before marriage and then after, he/she decides not to anymore (just a common example I see here on TAM)...should the non receiving spouse change to be able to meet needs for less sex as time goes on? 

No. 

Didn't think so. 

And many men and women here are contemplating an affair or divorce because of it. Many of them are getting the advice that if the non giving spouse doesn't change...to leave. 

This is no different.


----------



## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

clipclop2 said:


> I knew someone was going to ask the stupid question as to what is a need and who is to judge.


--Not a stupid question. It's actually one that has received considerable attention in both philosophy and psychology and written about extensively.

There is a tendency on the internet to redefine the word, "Need" as only the objective and material things without which we will die. --Which is fool argument. Humans are more complex than flatworms.

I do agree though that needs can be met in a whole spectrum of ways and that a big part of marriage is reaching compromises acceptable to both parties.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

clipclop2 said:


> What do expectations outside of the bedroom have to do with those from inside? Sex isn't a reward for good behavior and being good to your spouse doesn't BUY sex.
> 
> Why does the LD's definition get called arbitrary? They lay out their boundaries. Isn't it arbitrary to call sometimes boundary the problem and not accept that their own desires are just as culpable in the overall issue?
> 
> ...


I think your first paragraph above illustrates the problem about which I wrote. There should be no distinction between inside the bedroom and outside the bedroom wants and needs. There are only his needs and her needs. Anything that devalues the needs of your spouse is arbitrary. But, repeatedly, I see the sentiment that the LD is quite comfortable with his or her spouse being dissatisfied with the sex life, but when that dissatisfaction starts impacting the LD's happiness then there is resentment.

To more clearly illustrate this (and this happened to me), let's say my ex essentially tells me "your sexual happiness is not my problem. I will only do what I feel like and when I feel like it. You adjust and learn to be happy with what I give." I try to encourage her and lead her to be more generous, without success. So, I just do other things and do more for myself.

At some point (not too far) down the road, she says she has a beef with me. She feels I am not serving her well enough - not putting enough effort into making her happy. My response is (1) it's too draining to continually give when I am not happy in the relationship and (2) she had clearly said my happiness is not her responsibility. Her response to that is "sex is different. I should not be less happy or get less from you just because you are not getting your rocks off. I need you to be meeting my needs consistently and even while I am not meeting yours".

What might be forgotten is that TAM is a very sex-positive site. If you cast a wider net online (and I have) you will see just how prevalent that viewpoint I spelled out above is.

I agree that nobody should have to perform sex acts they don't like (as long as it's not a bait and switch - if a person tells hubby or wifey that they will, then you follow through). I would expand that to say "nobody has to do anything they don't want to do". But that is the rub, because often the LD person sees their own wants and needs as "good" and sex as "bad".

Nobody has to negotiate. But everyone must realize that the effort in a relationship will always equalize. We all take for granted (and rightfully so) that if a guy is only about banging his wife, treating her like a piece of tail, and disregards her otherwise she will lose interest and he will get nothing. But, OTOH, the thought that if a wife does not meet her husband's needs he will look elsewhere is hotly contested.

Wonder why that is?


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

staarz21 said:


> No. Not in this case. This is oral sex we are talking about, not mowing the lawn with straight lines.
> 
> Sex is very intimate. People are comfortable at their own level of things which they decide they can do.
> 
> ...


I agree with your post because of the caveat that it goes both ways. What I've seen many times (IRL, with people I know fairly well) is that it is often not balanced, with the guy being asked to make the consistently bigger sacrifices, and that such an opinion is much more socially acceptable.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

DTO said:


> I think your first paragraph above illustrates the problem about which I wrote. There should be no distinction between inside the bedroom and outside the bedroom wants and needs. There are only his needs and her needs. Anything that devalues the needs of your spouse is arbitrary. But, repeatedly, I see the sentiment that the LD is quite comfortable with his or her spouse being dissatisfied with the sex life, but when that dissatisfaction starts impacting the LD's happiness then there is resentment.
> 
> To more clearly illustrate this (and this happened to me), let's say my ex essentially tells me "your sexual happiness is not my problem. I will only do what I feel like and when I feel like it. You adjust and learn to be happy with what I give." I try to encourage her and lead her to be more generous, without success. So, I just do other things and do more for myself.
> 
> ...


well im lucky my mother thinks a woman sexually neglecting a man is a good reason for him to leave. However if he agrees to the position then thats between them. We agree to the position by staying or doing nothing about it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> Geez you mean he should send her back just because she won't give him bj? Remember, this is the person he married and is enjoying as a wife and companion. If that all she is worth?
> 
> She could actually be an honorable human of superior quality. She could be a good wife according to this man's culture. She could be an excellent mother to their children, good to his mother and treat him very well.
> 
> ...


I think you and I are on the same page, though with your venom toward me it's hard to figure.

I'm sure she is a great person. I'm sure he is too. But what I am saying is when you order a bride out of a catalog you shouldn't be shocked when she doesn't meet 100 percent of your needs. 

Should they discuss the issue? Yes! But if she doesn't like giving blow jobs what should he do? Force her? No of course not. 

I stand by my original posts. He either learns to live with it or he moves on.


----------



## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

Would this be any different if it was anal and just because she tried it before marriage she would be totally wrong for deciding she didn't want to do it after marriage? What about back door oral? Is there any sex act that a woman could try and later decide she didn't like without being accused of having baited and switched as opposed to just no longer being ok with the act?


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

committed4ever said:


> Would this be any different if it was anal and just because she tried it before marriage she would be totally wrong for deciding she didn't want to do it after marriage? What about back door oral? Is there any sex act that a woman could try and later decide she didn't like without being accused of having baited and switched as opposed to just no longer being ok with the act?


Because if she goes and gets an OM she will likely remember she really likes it or she wants to please him that way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

If she was giving him BJs every other night, and twice on Sundays, before marriage, and then after the nuptials, she never gave him another, saying I don't like it, then yes that is bait And switch. 

But that's not the case here. She may have tried it once or twice, and realized she doesn't like doing it. For whatever reasons. Her reasons. and that's good enough for me.

I've tried lobster once or twice. But I don't like it. You then can't say I should eat seafood every night since I tried lobster once.

OP needs to weigh his dissatisfaction with wife not giving him BJs against the rest of his relationship with her. There are other paths to happiness, not just BJs. Up to him to determine if it's a deal breaker. 

And like I said, if she doesn't like giving them, she is probably also bad at giving them. Even if she begrudgingly decides to give him BJs, will they be any good? I for one can't get off on a bad BJ. Maybe OP can.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> If she was giving him BJs every other night, and twice on Sundays, before marriage, and then after the nuptials, she never gave him another, saying I don't like it, then yes that is bait And switch.
> 
> But that's not the case here. She may have tried it once or twice, and realized she doesn't like doing it. For whatever reasons. Her reasons. and that's good enough for me.
> 
> ...


Sometimes its the thought that counts. So the effort will be looked highly upon even if they dont like to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Frusty said:


> I am always ready to discuss, but she frowns and DOES NOT want to discuss about BJ's at all! Whenever I talk about BJ's, she replies, "Why do you want to disappoint yourself?" And then her mood changes and she begins to fight over petty issues. Moreover, we did not engage.* The marriage was done in a hurry... So couldn't get time to know the sexual inclination of each other.* Though, we used to have cyber sex sometimes but the matter of NOT giving BJ didn't happen!


Again, buyer beware. He ordered her online, thousands of miles away, only chatted online, married in a hurry, and now is indignant she won't suck him off.


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Trey, that doesn't happen. The same guy that feels entitled to an act believes it should also be delivered with great enthusiasm

People being more complex than flatworms is immaterial. A need is a need. Anything else is a desire however important.

If you want to get into a debate tell me how his desire to get blown compares to something that without would cause great psychological damage like touch to a child.

And would he takes it up the ass if she claimed this was a sexual need for her?

I'm pretty sure the answer is no

TAM is pro sex and rightly so. But this isn't just about sex. This is about entitlement..


----------



## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

clipclop2 said:


> People being more complex than flatworms is immaterial. A
> need is a need. Anything else is a desire however important.


For all I know, it may very well be a sense of entitlement on his part. Like I've said on this thread, my wife's flavor of Christianity forbids it and I'm able to live with that. There's plenty of other things a married couple can do.

Where I think we may be disagreeing is whether it's proper to delegitimize the other person's point of view via this type of categorization.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

DTO said:


> I agree with your post because of the caveat that it goes both ways. What I've seen many times (IRL, with people I know fairly well) is that it is often not balanced, with the guy being asked to make the consistently bigger sacrifices, and that such an opinion is much more socially acceptable.


The primary problem may be that their wives don't see their husbands as making more sacrifices than they themselves make. What the husbands need to do is to point out all of their sacrifices and the negative balance to their wives. Once they get their wives to see the unfairness of their lot in life, all of their sexual needs will be satisfied in compensation. 

Are you certain they are sacrifices? Are you talking about being confined to one relationship, and financial responsibility for a place to live and to rest their head? Even with no family, a man would work, support himself and be driven to succeed, am I right? Marriage is a choice. However, I guess all of these things can be seen as sacrifices but, in that sense, the wife is sacrificing as much. So they are equal, do you agree?

I think it is healthy to appreciate yourself and place value on a job well done. It's childish not to admire the same in a partner and to expect an extra pat on the head for being a responsible adult. If these are the sacrifices you think men make then I understand why you think this man every sexual want is a need. If he is a saint for just showing up then he deserve to be served like a king by his wife. If they are both saints for committing to each other than they are equal. Do you agree?

The OP is not sex starved, based on his posts. He has sex missionary style. That not enough for him. It appears to be enough for his wife. He feels he "needs" lights, various positions and bj to stay in the relationship with her. To me, it sounds silly to pretend that having lights on and different sexual positions are "needs". It's fun. If he honestly approached his wife with the attitude that they are both having sex; they have an equal right to sexual satisfaction; their commitment to each other is equal and they owe each other the same amount of appreciation and respect. 

He could not have the attitude he has displayed if he felt this way. His diatribe about women having too much say in how they have sex is just one example. His demands that she meet his "needs" is another. They should both have fun. In that spirit he should try some of the excellent suggestions in the previous post. IMO, he would be much more successful if he made himself calm, like a man with confidence and a plan. Take things slowly and be flexable. Recognize progress no matter how small and build on it. It takes time but the effort is worth it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

He has a right to throw her back and search for a woman who will meet his needs. Whatever is in keeping with who and what he is. He has a right to his sexual needs and demands.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> Probably their wives don't see their husbands as making more sacrifices than they themselves make. Are you certain they are sacrifices? Are you talking about being confined to one relationship, and financial responsibility for a place to live and to rest their head? Even with no family, a man would work, support himself and be driven to succeed, am I right? Marriage is a choice. However, I guess all of these things can be seen as sacrifices but, in that sense, the wife is sacrificing as much. So they are equal, do you agree?
> 
> I think it is healthy to appreciate yourself and place value on a job well done. It's childish not to admire the same in a partner and to expect an extra pat on the head for being a responsible adult. If these are the sacrifices you think men make then I understand why you think this man every sexual want is a need. If he is a saint for just showing up then he deserve to be served like a king by his wife. If they are both saints for committing to each other than they are equal. Do you agree?
> 
> ...


I liked the dim light or small candle suggestion. It is a small step that someone who thinks they need darkness would be willing to make.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I can't concentrate in bright artificial light for some reason. I feel like I'm on stage. 

Also starting small that's so important. It worked for me. I don't think I could have been more negative about sex if I tried. But as I had more fun, and I gained trust in my huband, my progress accelerated. The trust thing is important. 

What I see is that when he became angry that his wife felt she got dry with more oral sex on her he should just have stopped. Getting angry may be interpreted as caring more about his pleasure than hers. I would not trust a man who got angry because I expressed a sexual preference. 

Maybe he got angry because he felt she was imposing a rule by not wanting to dry out and use lube. It may just be that she is uncomfortable- that does not equal sexual pleasure for her. This is were he should have been on his long game. Stop before she gets dry, go on to something else and may come back to it. 

Trail and error, flexibility and sensitivity. Getting angry may give her the impression that if he does not care for her comfort that he may get to a point where he does not care if he hurts her if it means pleasure for him. If he shows her that he can control himself and stop if she is uncomfortable she would trust him to take care of her if she tries new things. 

She won't enter into unknown territory with someone she can't trust. She may test his trustworthiness by asking him to stop. Some women fear that men get so caught up in pleasure that they cannot be stopped. He has to show that he will stop to get her to go with him. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Frusty said:


> She does not give BJ's at all and it is really frustrating. We do not have kids. We got married one and half years ago. I am 29 Years old at present and the idea of not getting BJ for rest of my life is very scary. She wants to have babies but I have made it a point that unless she blows me, I won't have sex (of course with her, am not going to cheat).
> 
> But from today, I have decided not to touch her sexually or see porn in front of her. I believe depriving her of all this would make her want it, may not be today or tomorrow, but may be in a month. I hope I am right.
> 
> She used to blow me very rarely (literally, very rarely) earlier. But she has stopped it altogether. Now, I want to make it clear that I remain clean shaven in pubic region and do not smell as I take shower before any sexual act. She even does not blow me with a flavored condom on.


You find the idea of never having a blow job again very scary? :wtf: Really?

You are going to cut her off because she is refusing to suck your penis? 

That's so mature of you.

You aren't going to cheat on her? Well, whoopie doo, bully for you.

Here's a tip. Learn yoga. Get flexible. Real, *real* flexible. Then you will not need to harass your wife for oral sex. The answer would then be in your own hands. (No pun intended.)


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

DTO said:


> I do think it is a real phenomenon. Although I'm not a subject matter expert, my personal experience, conversation snippets I have heard, and posts on TAM and other forums ("why is sex so important?", "when I don't have sex, he/she treats me differently") are too numerous to ignore.
> 
> I totally agree that it is a common expectation upon marriage. And I don't have a problem with it. Both spouses have "givens" for marriage: monogamy, financial support, kindness, emotional closeness, etc. I don't see sexual needs as any different.


DTO Im not taking issue with the expectation, it _*how*_ it's expected. To me, it's bj suicide. Approaching a woman who is unaroused for a bj or expecting it as a stand alone act is problematic. Only men on TAM give women oral sex on demand and expect no orgasm for themselves. It is a very rare occurrence in the rest of our culture. 

That's how it is. But why? The only thing I can come up with is that men assume that sex is not a "need" for women as it is for men. 

They are wrong, but myths are hard to dissipate. It's similar to the belief that woman don't cheat. It's so strong that many men find it difficult to even entertain when all the signs are there.


----------



## johny1989 (May 21, 2014)

If you want BJ from your wife then try this may be this can help you.. 
1. Wash your junk & rinse well - soap tastes yucky. 
2. Shave down there - or at least trim it! 
3. Send the kids to grandmas. 
4. Lovingly say, "your lips are beautiful, id love to see them wrapped around my.." 
5. Take her out for dinner & some wine. 
6. Make her feel appreciated. 
7. Bargain - If you give me a bj I will give you a great back rub after. 
8. Promise not to *** in her mouth. (lil steps) 
9. You go down on her if she likes it! 
10. Get her a book about the art of oral. 

DO NOT 
1. Tease her for not doing it. 
2. *** in her mouth after you said you wouldn't. 
3. *** in her eyes or hair. 
4. Hold back and make it last 20 minutes, it's a strain on the neck and shoulders. 
5. Tell her about how well your old girlfriend or your friends wife does it. 
6. Sound accusatory or degrading when you ask. 
7. Shove it down her throat or even touch the back of her head. Let her have total control. 
8. Criticize the way she does it at all. 
9. Buy some crappy gel that's supposed to make it taste good. It doesn't that stuff is gross! 
10. Act like it's your right as a man to get a bj. 

But really, it's hard to give good tips with so little info about personality. If she is uppity or prudish it might not happen. Personally, I love the look of joy on my husbands face when I pull him to the edge of the bed and kneel down. (I find that position is less stress on the neck and allows for optimum deep throating btw) 

If she is absolutely opposed to it, ask for a really good hand-job with lots of lube. My hubby loves that too.. both hands of course.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

johny1989 said:


> If you want BJ from your wife then try this may be this can help you..
> 1. Wash your junk & rinse well - soap tastes yucky.
> 2. Shave down there - or at least trim it!
> 3. Send the kids to grandmas.
> ...


There is really nothing wrong with being "prudish" if that's what a person is, that is what they are.

Attempting to force someone to do something they dislike (by threats of never having sex again) is in my mind bordering on abusive behaviour.


----------



## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

treyvion said:


> Because if she goes and gets an OM she will likely remember she really likes it or she wants to please him that way.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thats a big assumption, there, treyvion. Sorry, but I won't do anal with my husband. I absolutely refuse. I haven't done it and never will. Im not going to go out a have sex with some other guy and "forget that I don't like it" and do it with him. Now, the OP, and likely any other man whose wife doesn't do whatever sexual act he wants, is going to think his wife is cheating because she doesn't like doing something she has already showed, from the start, she didn't want to do. And a faithful wife is going to be accused of cheating. Well done, treyvion. Well done.


----------



## TopsyTurvy5 (Nov 16, 2013)

clipclop2 said:


> You misread me totally.
> 
> What I am saying is that she likely doesn't get everything she wants either. Is she making any of those things the number one determinant of marital satisfaction? Or does she accept that you can't always get what you want and that what she gets is good enough?
> 
> ...


So what is she doing to negotiate with him about this issue? Or is it just, if she doesn't want to do it, then that is the end of the story?


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

TopsyTurvy5 said:


> So what is she doing to negotiate with him about this issue? Or is it just, if she doesn't want to do it, then that is the end of the story?


*Well, actually yes. Yes it is.*

She doesn't want to do it, she doesn't have to do it. Ever.

It *is* the end of the story.

He needs to become mature enough to understand he did* not *marry a coin in the slot sex machine, that he married a real, live human who just doesn't like oral sex.

If he wants to ruin his marriage he is going the right way about it.

PS> The women in the porn videos who just lurv oral sex so much? *They are actresses and in real life they might not like oral sex, either. *


----------



## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> *Well, actually yes. Yes it is.*
> 
> She doesn't wan to do it, she doesn't have to do it. Ever.
> 
> ...


Actually should have never married her if this was such an issue for him. Not like she didn't indicate she was wasn't into it before hand.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

One of my STBW's biggest sexual resentments towards her ex husband, and men in general was the demand for oral sex. She was guilted into believing that she was frigid, not a good wife, all those things if she didn't give them on demand. She did give them most of the time as requested as she didn't have any real physical aversion to them, but it was out of duty.

Myself, coming out of a marriage where oral was totally off the table, sure, I wanted oral, but didn't push the issue at all. When my STBW heard that, she was astounded and said she almost wept for me because she knows it is something that is very intimate for men.

The thing is, I have never once pushed or even asked for a bj, and over time she has come to absolutely love giving them to me, and bj's to completion with swallowing are a regular part of our sex life.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Maricha75 said:


> Thats a big assumption, there, treyvion. Sorry, but I won't do anal with my husband. I absolutely refuse. I haven't done it and never will. Im not going to go out a have sex with some other guy and "forget that I don't like it" and do it with him. Now, the OP, and likely any other man whose wife doesn't do whatever sexual act he wants, is going to think his wife is cheating because she doesn't like doing something she has already showed, from the start, she didn't want to do. And a faithful wife is going to be accused of cheating. Well done, treyvion. Well done.


Aren't all wives on TAM that aren't deliriously happy with hubby and happily submitting to all of his demands cheating?

I'm not crazy about anal, period. Not for my hb and not for anyone else. Fortunately he doesn't think he's entitled to things I don't like. Ironically, because he's not entitled i'm more willing to do things for him. Funny how that works.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> One of my STBW's biggest sexual resentments towards her ex husband, and men in general was the demand for oral sex. She was guilted into believing that she was frigid, not a good wife, all those things if she didn't give them on demand. She did give them most of the time as requested as she didn't have any real physical aversion to them, but it was out of duty.
> 
> Myself, coming out of a marriage where oral was totally off the table, sure, I wanted oral, but didn't push the issue at all. When my STBW heard that, she was astounded and said she almost wept for me because she knows it is something that is very intimate for men.
> 
> The thing is, I have never once pushed or even asked for a bj, and over time she has come to absolutely love giving them to me, and bj's to completion with swallowing are a regular part of our sex life.


That's often how things work. Demands breed resentment, and many women will do more if it's not expected. And if your woman won't then demands won't help anyway.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> Aren't all wives on TAM that aren't deliriously happy with hubby and happily submitting to all of his demands cheating?
> 
> I'm not crazy about anal, period. Not for my hb and not for anyone else. Fortunately he doesn't think he's entitled to things I don't like. * Ironically, because he's not entitled i'm more willing to do things for him. Funny how that works.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> Aren't all wives on TAM that aren't deliriously happy with hubby and happily submitting to all of his demands cheating?
> 
> I'm not crazy about anal, period. Not for my hb and not for anyone else. Fortunately he doesn't think he's entitled to things I don't like. Ironically, because he's not entitled i'm more willing to do things for him. Funny how that works.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Funny you mention anal...that was another thing my STBW and I talked about before we started dating, and it's not really something I had a great interest in, and though she had done it, it was something she didn't overly enjoy. I have never really broached the subject, but she has, and it is something she would like to explore with me on her own accord.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Demanding oral sex sounds a little juvenile to me.


----------



## Hurra (Sep 13, 2009)

My wife when we were dating told me right from the start she didn't like giving BJs (although she had never given one before). But she said she made up for it in other ways. But later while we were dating she introduced the flavored condom as a compromise. I thought that was great. So we have been married for 7 years and the last time I got a BJ was in 2008. I have suggested maybe 2-3 times about giving me a BJ even with a flavored condom but she has no interest. She also has no interest in making up for it in other ways like she use to. So to me, it was all a farce not to loose me. 

I am not going to demand or force her to do anything she doesn't want to do. Having said that, I am no longer reducing myself to her level of low sexual desire by doing the same sexual routine every time, which is only once every few weeks anyway of missionary where she only opens her legs and lets me have sex with her. I spoke to my wife about this a few times and it falls on deaf ears. 

My point is heaven forbid the wife would want to make her husband happy, especially for a husband who bends over backwards for her.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Hurra said:


> My wife when we were dating told me right from the start she didn't like giving BJs (although she had never given one before). But she said she made up for it in other ways. But later while we were dating she introduced the flavored condom as a compromise. I thought that was great. So we have been married for 7 years and the last time I got a BJ was in 2008. I have suggested maybe 2-3 times about giving me a BJ even with a flavored condom but she has no interest. She also has no interest in making up for it in other ways like she use to. So to me, it was all a farce not to loose me.
> 
> I am not going to demand or force her to do anything she doesn't want to do. Having said that, I am no longer reducing myself to her level of low sexual desire by doing the same sexual routine every time, which is only once every few weeks anyway of missionary where she only opens her legs and lets me have sex with her. I spoke to my wife about this a few times and it falls on deaf ears.
> 
> My point is heaven forbid the wife would want to make her husband happy, especially for a husband who bends over backwards for her.


This ^^^^^
I don't expect a direct answer, but I'll try anyway. This is not an accusation but an illustration of the cultural norm. His wife owes him for showing up. 

Its not a bait and switch, for two years she gave. She may have grown tired of his overvaluation of his contribution to the marriage and lack of appreciation of hers. He would not come up with the request that she make it up to him by doing other things if he didn't believe that she owed him something. 

Its not hard to see that she would have resented that and stopped giving. I can't blame her, a normal healthy person with self respect would naturally resist being devalued. That would be hard to deal with for 7 years. 


How did she give you a bj? Was that the only thing that happened sexually? Did you approach her in a non-sexual setting when she was not aroused.

I am trying to help from a woman's point of view. You need to change your attitude. I think the open her legs thing is a disrespectful way to talk about your wife. Did you lose respect because she did not give you a bj? 

Start over again. She what your wife does for you and the family and respect and appreciate that. If you think that it is bending over backwards to value her contribution as much as your own, then don't do it. 

Sounds like she disrespects you and does not value you as much as you do yourself. It's a vicious cycle. You start first. start with the idea of becoming a better partner in the relationship. give it a finite period of time and then review things with your wife afterwards. 

Drop the hostile derogatory way of thinking about women and the sense of entitlement. You may remind her of a crude, juvenile entitled boy and not a mature man.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

This is part of a post from a man in the Orgasm Meditation thread. 

5.) For me it was exciting at first, then the act of simply rubbing her cl!t for 15 minutes, and going about my day afterwards got a bit old after a while.

Interesting. Not so difficult to understand, it does get old. I suggest men who expect stand alone bj try doing this for a few years. Or women who have husbands who demand bj, demand this see what his reaction is.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> Funny you mention anal...that was another thing my STBW and I talked about before we started dating, and it's not really something I had a great interest in, and though she had done it, it was something she didn't overly enjoy. I have never really broached the subject, but she has, and it is something she would like to explore with me on her own accord.


People also go thought different phases in life, so something you didn't enjoy years ago you might revisit and vice versa. This seems to be a tough thing for the men of TAM to grasp: if you've EVER done x with any other guy you owe it to your hb even if you don't care to do it anymore. My hb had plenty of car sex when he was younger but doesn't care for it now (he finds it physically uncomfortable).. Should I throw a tantrum because he prefers not to do that now? If I pushed for it he'd probably do it for me but he wouldn't enjoy it.

You are also not an overly demanding guy who pouts and pressures, at least my impression, so that can open the door for her to consider things she might not otherwise consider.


When I was much younger the thought of a d!ck in my mouth was kind of offputting, but as I got older I became ok with it. Factor in that my hb doesn't make entitlement demands and i'm more than happy to do it for him. He doesn't even have to ask.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hurra (Sep 13, 2009)

Catherine602 said:


> This ^^^^^
> I don't expect a direct answer, but I'll try anyway. This is not an accusation but an illustration of the cultural norm. His wife owes him for showing up.
> 
> Its not a bait and switch, for two years she gave. She may have grown tired of his overvaluation of his contribution to the marriage and lack of appreciation of hers. He would not come up with the request that she make it up to him by doing other things if he didn't believe that she owed him something.
> ...


I'm not saying that I should get a BJ in return for helping my wife. Books and other sites suggest helping around the house, be more responsible, etc etc. That is suppose to gain your spouse's respect back as a start and make a husband look more attractive. I support her in every way possible, BJ or not. BJ's are only one thing. How about a wife who you kissed good night and cuddled into for years and would NEVER kiss or cuddle me. She never cuddles into me despite me inviting her over. I long for someone to just randomly put her arm over me in bed. But she won't leave her side of the bed. Putting your arm around your spouse in bed should be just a natural instinct. Years ago I asked why she never kissed me good night, she didn't have an answer. The next night she kissed me good night. That was the last time (07 or 08).

Also, I never suggested she make it up in other ways. SHE SAID IT. I remember once we were dating and for a few weeks she couldn't have sex due to an injury. She cried one day worried I would break up with her because she couldn't have sex. I thought that was foolish. She doesn't feel that way anymore. Now it doesn't bother her at all.

In any case, she does have issues with her appearance. But she also lacks any desire for physical intimacy which she covered up during dating by pretending to. I have asked her what has changed and she can't give me a straight answer. Or any answer.

Bait and switch is real. It happens. I have spoken to many male friends of mine with exact stories as mine. And these are guys that are responsible husbands and parents but have wives that have no interest in sex other than to reproduce. I ask, why is this??


----------



## Hurra (Sep 13, 2009)

Catherine602 said:


> This is part of a post from a man in the Orgasm Meditation thread.
> 
> 5.) For me it was exciting at first, then the act of simply rubbing her cl!t for 15 minutes, and going about my day afterwards got a bit old after a while.
> 
> Interesting. Not so difficult to understand, it does get old. I suggest men who expect stand alone bj try doing this for a few years. Or women who have husbands who demand bj, demand this see what his reaction is.


You are missing the point. I want to make my wife happy in every way, sexual and in any other way I can. She does not. I don't think men here are saying they just want to drop their pants and have their wives go right to town. But when things are getting intimate in the bedroom, and I will do most anything to make my wife happy and she doesn't feel the same way for me, well, how is that suppose to work?


----------



## TopsyTurvy5 (Nov 16, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> *Well, actually yes. Yes it is.*
> 
> She doesn't wan to do it, she doesn't have to do it. Ever.
> 
> ...


First off, I have no idea where your porn comment comes from, but personally I don't think this issue occurs because of porn.

Secondly, so if he just out of the blue said, "I don't want to have any meaningful conversations with you anymore. I told you I wasn't a big talker before we got married, and now I have never really enjoyed talking to you, so I'm going to stop." His wife should just be cool with that, right?

In your answer you are giving the wife all of the power. There is no compromise, there is no give and take. It's simply, she doesn't want to do it, so that trumps everything.

I don't want to deal with my in-laws or my wife's brother, but I do. It's about a greater good. Is there give and take on both sides.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Hurra said:


> I'm not saying that I should get a BJ in return for helping my wife. Books and other sites suggest helping around the house, be more responsible, etc etc. That is suppose to gain your spouse's respect back as a start and make a husband look more attractive. I support her in every way possible, BJ or not. BJ's are only one thing. How about a wife who you kissed good night and cuddled into for years and would NEVER kiss or cuddle me. She never cuddles into me despite me inviting her over. I long for someone to just randomly put her arm over me in bed. But she won't leave her side of the bed. Putting your arm around your spouse in bed should be just a natural instinct. Years ago I asked why she never kissed me good night, she didn't have an answer. The next night she kissed me good night. That was the last time (07 or 08).
> 
> Also, I never suggested she make it up in other ways. SHE SAID IT. I remember once we were dating and for a few weeks she couldn't have sex due to an injury. She cried one day worried I would break up with her because she couldn't have sex. I thought that was foolish. She doesn't feel that way anymore. Now it doesn't bother her at all.
> 
> ...


She may not think you are helping her. She may think that you are doing what any adult male should do to in a marriage. That's why she is not giving you the credit you think you should have. There are things that you both did to get your marriage into this state. Honestly accepting that you made mistakes equal to your wife can only help. 

Giving her credit equal to your own for the positive things in the relationship can't hurt. Don't you think that it is worth starting over Really look things over. I'd suggest that you read His Needs, Her Needs and The Five Love Languages. Just appreciate your wife for what she does. Don't expect her to have sex because you appreciate her. If this sounds like more of "the man needs to do everything" then don't do it. Don't do more than your share in the chore department. It seems weak. Don't kiss her zzz, very weak.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> This is part of a post from a man in the Orgasm Meditation thread.
> 
> 5.) For me it was exciting at first, then the act of simply rubbing her cl!t for 15 minutes, and going about my day afterwards got a bit old after a while.
> 
> Interesting. Not so difficult to understand, it does get old. I suggest men who expect stand alone bj try doing this for a few years. Or women who have husbands who demand bj, demand this see what his reaction is.


I wonder what a man would use that is a parallel to a Hitachi? Oral is fun warm up. But if I want a clit O, I reach for the Hitachi.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

First, I wanted to note that this might not apply here. I think the circumstances of the marriage are a huge issue. At least in an arranged marriage (from what little I know) you have families that know each other and the circumstances in which those to be married were raised.

Here you do not appear to have that. Did the OP just expect to scoop up a lady in need and have his way without developing a genuine connection? Did his wife just look to get away from something and be cared for and give back just enough? Perhaps.

Second, I know my ex was far worse than he typical wife, and I try hard to not over-extrapolate my experiences to those of other posters on TAM. Nonetheless, I see an awful lot of similarities to my experiences and don't think they were so far-out extreme as to not be a reliable basis for discussion.



Catherine602 said:


> The primary problem may be that their wives don't see their husbands as making more sacrifices than they themselves make. What the husbands need to do is to point out all of their sacrifices and the negative balance to their wives. Once they get their wives to see the unfairness of their lot in life, all of their sexual needs will be satisfied in compensation.


Nice sarcasm.



Catherine602 said:


> Are you certain they are sacrifices? Are you talking about being confined to one relationship, and financial responsibility for a place to live and to rest their head? Even with no family, a man would work, support himself and be driven to succeed, am I right? Marriage is a choice. However, I guess all of these things can be seen as sacrifices but, in that sense, the wife is sacrificing as much. So they are equal, do you agree?


Actually, no (assuming that the man is the primary earner, which is still typically the case). The man might be pushed to advance his career further, take on a more demanding job, or take a job further from home to make more money.

A story: I had a co-worker whose husband was an engineer. He was content with their lifestyle. They owned a home and lived comfortably if not particularly well. Importantly to him, he was home every night by dinner to be with her and their kids. My co-worker's opinion? She wanted a better lifestyle, so he needed to "get his a$$ out there, buddy". I knew her fairly well, and there is no way she would have tolerated this from him.

In my experience, this attitude is very common among women. The other ladies nearby agreed. My ex certainly would have demanded the same. In fact, I did the math one time and figured that my ex's material lifestyle demands would have added at least 5 years to my career.

So, the question I return to you is when you have a situation where wives are asking their husbands to push themselves and step out of their comfort zones for their wives' direct benefit, how is it not okay for husbands to expect the same? And, if the husband is constantly pushing himself for his wife but she is not providing the same, can you say they are sacrificing equally?



Catherine602 said:


> I think it is healthy to appreciate yourself and place value on a job well done. It's childish not to admire the same in a partner and to expect an extra pat on the head for being a responsible adult. If these are the sacrifices you think men make then I understand why you think this man every sexual want is a need. If he is a saint for just showing up then he deserve to be served like a king by his wife. If they are both saints for committing to each other than they are equal. Do you agree?


Again, the presumption here is both are putting equal effort into the relationship. From what I've read on TAM and other sites, I honestly think that is not something we can take for granted. How many stories do we see where the woman takes what she needs from the marriage, or where the guy works his tail off and she enjoys happily but doesn't reciprocate?

This may be to my discredit, but my honest sense is that balanced effort in a relationship is essential. If every workday is 12 hours between work and commute, and ex was putting in 9 (and was lazy around the house to boot), my attitude will be that if I am pushing and doing more in certain areas at your request and for your direct benefit I will expect the same.



Catherine602 said:


> The OP is not sex starved, based on his posts. He has sex missionary style. That not enough for him. It appears to be enough for his wife. He feels he "needs" lights, various positions and bj to stay in the relationship with her. To me, it sounds silly to pretend that having lights on and different sexual positions are "needs". It's fun. If he honestly approached his wife with the attitude that they are both having sex; they have an equal right to sexual satisfaction; their commitment to each other is equal and they owe each other the same amount of appreciation and respect.


Well, again, let's suppose a guy tells his wife "our apartment has four walls and a roof, the bills get paid, and there's food in he house. We are comfortably and I am happy and have no interest in working harder so we can have better stuff and a bigger house." Would you feel the same way?



Catherine602 said:


> He could not have the attitude he has displayed if he felt this way. His diatribe about women having too much say in how they have sex is just one example. His demands that she meet his "needs" is another. They should both have fun. In that spirit he should try some of the excellent suggestions in the previous post. IMO, he would be much more successful if he made himself calm, like a man with confidence and a plan. Take things slowly and be flexable. Recognize progress no matter how small and build on it. It takes time but the effort is worth it.


I do agree with this wholeheartedly, and moved on to more adversarial measures in my own marriage only when the more collaborative stuff was an total failure.


----------



## jerry123 (Apr 9, 2012)

Wives either love giving BJ's or hate giving BJ's. There's a few in between who do it just for husband. 

Same as with men going down on a woman. I personally love doing it because of wife's reaction but I know a few guys that hate doing it. 

As for my wife, it took me many years to get my wife to actually enjoy them and a few times beg for me to just go to town on her orally to realize she enjoys it to the point of climaxing while doing it. 

Hey, like Athol says in his book...only 30% of what you try in bedroom will actually work. But it sucks (no pun) when a guys really likes BJ's and his wife doesn't. I suggest one night if you both are drinking she may be open to new things. Not saying pass out drunk but a few glasses of wine could possibly open her up to the idea of liking to give BJ's.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

How is the fact that you do whatever your husband wants a reason that another woman should do something she doesn't want to do? 

I never brought up what we do or don't do in our bedroom because it is irrelevant. 

Both men and women have the right to say no.


----------



## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

khaleesiwife said:


> Omg... tell her to suck it! Christian marriage bed is undefiled. Its in the Bible. She needs to get over it... She should stare him down and profess to conquer the one-eyed snake. And do just that. I used to be all shy and squeemish about it when I first met my Hubs but I began to notice the more aggressive and open I was to it the more he seemed pleased. And I LOVE to please him. Now I'm a Pro. I give him one every time we come together, which is daily (at least knce a day minimum.). What made me want to do this is because he raved on and on how much I pleased him and I'm addicted to making him feel fufilled because as a wife he makes ME feel fufilled. Pleasing him is my obsession. The better I get down with him I notice the more focused he is on going out there in the world and doing a great job at work to take care of me and the kids. So it's a win/win for both of us.


You know what? It's great that works for YOUR sex life... but guess what? This ain't YOUR sex life. And its not mine, either. Hey, you said you're a Christian, right? So am I. And there are some things I will not do. Period. Chief of which is anal sex. That is not on the menu, ever. Even if my husband said "I want to try it", it would not be done. 

And, I'm sorry, but where did the OP state that he, or his wife, is a Christian? If he has not stated such, then neither your position as a Christian, nor mine, will have no bearing on this discussion. Frankly, it doesn't anyway. And suggesting that he, essentially, FORCE his wife to do something he already knows she didn't care for, FROM THE BEGINNING? Are you NUTS? No, seriously. Are you? In what universe is it EVER ok to force your spouse to do anything sexual? *IT IS NOT EVER ACCEPTABLE!*

*smh*


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

"Tell her to suck it".
Very helpful. Not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

DTO said:


> Actually, no (assuming that the man is the primary earner, which is still typically the case). The man might be pushed to advance his career further, take on a more demanding job, or take a job further from home to make more money.
> 
> A story: I had a co-worker whose husband was an engineer. He was content with their lifestyle. They owned a home and lived comfortably if not particularly well. Importantly to him, he was home every night by dinner to be with her and their kids. My co-worker's opinion? She wanted a better lifestyle, so he needed to "get his a$$ out there, buddy". I knew her fairly well, and there is no way she would have tolerated this from him.
> 
> ...


What happens in relationships where the wife pulls in as much or more than her husband; are they sacrificing equally? I am assuming that she buys her way out of bj. But can she go even further and demand sex that requires her husband to sacrifice his pleasure in deference to hers? 

Can she expect the female equivalent of stand alone bj, anal sex, fantasies, dress-up, lap dance and strip tease.


----------



## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

clipclop2 said:


> I knew someone was going to ask the stupid question as to what is a need and who is to judge.
> 
> The only time anyone makes that kind of fool argument is when they aren't getting what they WANT.


_
"A need is something essential—people need food, water, and shelter because these are necessary in order to survive and flourish. Romantic needs enable the flourishing and survival of a profound romantic relationship; they include, for example, shared valuable activities, caring, reciprocity, and nurturing each other. Want is something you would like to have; it is a desire or an inclination for something. Wants are nice to have, and they contribute to the overall quality of the relationship; however, they are not as essential as needs."

I Need You More Than Want You | Psychology Today_


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

clipclop2 said:


> How is the fact that you do whatever your husband wants a reason that another woman should do something she doesn't want to do?
> 
> I never brought up what we do or don't do in our bedroom because it is irrelevant.
> 
> Both men and women have the right to say no.


Absolutely yes, and nothing should be forced. But I am aware that too many "no"s, or a "no" to a particularly strong want, can lead to a vicious cycle. I strove to not say "no" to something my ex wanted, and I recommend others do the same.


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

The advice sounded like it came from a very young person. I can't imagine a mom telling her new son in law to say this to her young daughter because the marriage bed is undefiled.

One eyed snake. Cringe!


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

DTO, striving to do as much as you can is great. But when you got a hard stop the only answer is no.

I really don't understand why this is so difficult for so many people to grasp.

Like the guy who said his mother supports spouses meeting each other sexual "needs.". When you then have to explain that the sexual "need" is for blowjobs and that otherwise she has sex with you 99% of the sympathy mom had before will turn into head shaking. And most fathers will say "yeah son, I hear ya but if I predicated marriage to your mom on blowjobs you would have been fatherless."

I really doubt most sons would have the balls to even discuss such a thing with their parents. What are the chances the OP has raised the issue with either his or his wife's?


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> What happens in relationships where the wife pulls in as much or more than her husband; are they sacrificing equally? I am assuming that she buys her way out of bj. But can she go even further and demand sex that requires her husband to sacrifice his pleasure in deference to hers?
> 
> Can she expect the female equivalent of stand alone bj, anal sex, fantasies, dress-up, lap dance and strip tease.


A very good counselor once told me that people choose partners based on a balance of "how does this person enhance my life" and "do I like this person enough to give back in kind". I think a given individual is flexible (to an extent) in how they need a partner to enhance their lives. And, I think sex life is one of many ways a partner can do that.

And, I dislike the connotation of "demand". As I said, no one should force anyone to do anything. "Demand" to me means actual force, the threat of force, or the threat of allowing harm(like kicking someone out who has no place to go). Saying "I must have this to remain in this relationship" is not demanding, it is setting a boundary (however inappropriate it may be).

That being said, yes I absolutely think a person who contributes more of what his or her partner considers valuable has more moral standing to ask that partner to "push themselves". It's a very simple concept - you give more and you get more. Again, my view of marriage is there are her needs and his needs. I don't see look at it as "sex is different - the give and take rule doesn't apply there. It's okay to ask your partner to strive non-sexually, but not sexually" although I understand many do make that distinction.

To use myself as an example, I had no problem with providing sexually. I also never requested a standalone BJ (or any sexual act), and am always willing to pleasure the lady first. I just wanted it as foreplay.

I disliked taking my ex shopping for trinkets (collectibles shows, arts and crafts displays), so let's use that as an example. I did much of it because I felt it was important to be generous in what she liked. Eventually I cut back, because _that generosity was not reciprocated_. It is like that "love bank" argument; when you keep going to the well to give what your spouse wants, and that spouse doesn't give you what you want, the well runs dry.

Now if she had contributed more (in any of a variety of ways) would she have had a better right to ask that I push myself? Absolutely! If you give more of what I want, you get more of what you want. And you stand a better chance of getting it too, because you have either directly accommodated me (the sexual stuff) or made my circumstances of my life easier so that I have more to give back.

Giving what you don't like (pleasantly) is difficult. If you are getting what you want, it is easy to just roll with it and enjoy. But, you need to be checking in with your spouse and make sure you are giving back enough to keep getting, or adjust your expectations.

So, I answered your question. The answer is yes all the way around, not just when it benefits the man. The question to you is, do you disagree that effort should beget effort? Should not greater valuable input lead to greater return? Or is the issue with my argument that I apply it to the sexual as well as the non-sexual aspects of relationships?


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

You can ask all you want.

She still had the right to say no.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

clipclop2 said:


> DTO, striving to do as much as you can is great. But when you got a hard stop the only answer is no.
> 
> I really don't understand why this is so difficult for so many people to grasp.
> 
> ...


Yeah, my mother wouldnt want to be starved herself nor does she starve her husband. Shes a feminist, but doesnt think its right for a wife to recieve the benefits of marriage and to deny her husnand sexuality.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

What does being a feminist have to do with it?

And you are still talking without being specific. Your mother would think you a fool if you have the specifics of not getting blown being the basis for your desire for a divorce.

Not getting blown does not deny her husband sexuality. 

Talk about exaggeration and hysterics.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

clipclop2 said:


> What does being a feminist have to do with it?
> 
> And you are still talking without being specific. Your mother would think you a fool if you have the specifics of not getting blown being the basis for your desire for a divorce.
> 
> ...


My mother would have said if it was that important to me I shouldve made that a selection criteria. But after the fact shed suggest talking about it and a baby step.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

That's a lot different than what you have previously suggested.


----------



## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

khaleesiwife said:


> Omg... tell her to suck it! Christian marriage bed is undefiled. Its in the Bible. She needs to get over it... She should stare him down and profess to conquer the one-eyed snake. And do just that. I used to be all shy and squeemish about it when I first met my Hubs but I began to notice the more aggressive and open I was to it the more he seemed pleased. And I LOVE to please him. Now I'm a Pro. I give him one every time we come together, which is daily (at least knce a day minimum.). What made me want to do this is because he raved on and on how much I pleased him and I'm addicted to making him feel fufilled because as a wife he makes ME feel fufilled. Pleasing him is my obsession. The better I get down with him I notice the more focused he is on going out there in the world and doing a great job at work to take care of me and the kids. So it's a win/win for both of us.


I like you, Welcome to TAM!


----------



## TopsyTurvy5 (Nov 16, 2013)

clipclop2 said:


> DTO, striving to do as much as you can is great. But when you got a hard stop the only answer is no.
> 
> I really don't understand why this is so difficult for so many people to grasp.
> 
> ...


I am having a hard time understanding why you think if someone gives a hard stop that the other person should be cool with it without question.

If I suddenly said I no longer wanted to have meaningful conversations with my wife, should she just accept it and be happy she is even married to me? 

I understand you don't value bjs, and that is fine, but some people do. To some people it is an integral part of a healthy sex life, as is adult conversation. Just because you don't think it should be viewed as important doesn't mean it isn't. 

I really don't understand the viewpoint that many on this board have that the woman is in charge and the main person to dictate sexual behavior.


----------



## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

over20 said:


> I like you, Welcome to TAM!


I liked the comment because it made me Chuckle.

What a way with words.... How could anyone Possibly say no when you say it like that.


----------



## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

TopsyTurvy5 said:


> *I am having a hard time understanding why you think if someone gives a hard stop that the other person should be cool with it without question.*
> 
> If I suddenly said I no longer wanted to have meaningful conversations with my wife, should she just accept it and be happy she is even married to me?


That's not it, at all. CC isn't saying the other spouse should be "cool with it". Accepting "no" as the answer to a hard stop does NOT mean you are cool with it. In fact, it can still be quite the opposite! All it means is that you understand the concept that "No mean no", even if you don't like it. And, you grasp that you cannot force someone to do whatever sexual act you want.

My husband loves BJs. But you know what? If he doesn't take a shower right before we have sex, it won't happen. If my back is in tremendous pain, it will not happen. I cannot kneel. I cannot even sit on the floor because getting up off the floor will cause a lot of pain. So, he gets them rarely. I love getting oral as well. But when his back hurts, I tell him not to. Not ask... TELL. Because he HAS attempted when his back hurt...and couldn't do anything for days afterward. Even walking was a chore at that point. But neither of us withholds PIV because we don't get oral. That...well, to be frank, that's stupid. It's childish. Just as withholding sex because the dishes weren't done, or the floor wasn't mopped or vacuumed, or even because the yard wasn't mowed, is stupid and childish. 



TopsyTurvy5 said:


> I understand you don't value bjs, and that is fine, but some people do. To some people it is an integral part of a healthy sex life, as is adult conversation. Just because you don't think it should be viewed as important doesn't mean it isn't.


I do wonder, however, if the same people who are up in arms about BJs would say the same thing about anal. If one spouse said, from the beginning, that he or she didn't care for it, but did it a few times, then stopped, would everyone be saying the same things they are about that? That "to some people it is an integral part of a healthy sex life"? That "(s)he should just suck it up and do it"? Somehow, I don't think so. 



TopsyTurvy5 said:


> I really don't understand the viewpoint that many on this board have that the woman is in charge and the main person to dictate sexual behavior.


I haven't seen that so much as people saying that EITHER spouse, if it's "no", it's "no". If my husband were to tell me he wasn't giving me oral anymore, I'd be disappointed, but I would accept it. I don't dictate all sexual behavior, any more than he does. But neither of us would throw a temper tantrum and withhold sex because we aren't getting oral, or any other sex act, other than PIV.


----------



## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

khaleesiwife said:


> Omg... tell her to suck it! Christian marriage bed is undefiled. Its in the Bible. She needs to get over it... .


WHERE in the bible does it say that the wife "shall give her husband blow jobs"? :scratchhead:


----------



## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Vega said:


> WHERE in the bible does it say that the wife "shall give her husband blow jobs"? :scratchhead:


Just before it says "Thou shalt allow him to put his penis in your anus"


----------



## TopsyTurvy5 (Nov 16, 2013)

Maricha75 said:


> That's not it, at all. CC isn't saying the other spouse should be "cool with it". Accepting "no" as the answer to a hard stop does NOT mean you are cool with it. In fact, it can still be quite the opposite! All it means is that you understand the concept that "No mean no", even if you don't like it. And, you grasp that you cannot force someone to do whatever sexual act you want.
> 
> My husband loves BJs. But you know what? If he doesn't take a shower right before we have sex, it won't happen. If my back is in tremendous pain, it will not happen. I cannot kneel. I cannot even sit on the floor because getting up off the floor will cause a lot of pain. So, he gets them rarely. I love getting oral as well. But when his back hurts, I tell him not to. Not ask... TELL. Because he HAS attempted when his back hurt...and couldn't do anything for days afterward. Even walking was a chore at that point. But neither of us withholds PIV because we don't get oral. That...well, to be frank, that's stupid. It's childish. Just as withholding sex because the dishes weren't done, or the floor wasn't mopped or vacuumed, or even because the yard wasn't mowed, is stupid and childish.
> 
> ...


So, if your husband suddenly said he no longer wanted to have deep, meaningful conversations with you, because he just doesn't like them, would you be okay with that? I mean, you can't force him to have a conversation with you, right? He tried it, he doesn't like it. So, you should accept it. You understand the concept of "No means no." Does that cross the line for you?

Now, I'm not saying you should force someone to perform a sex act- I find that abhorrent, actually. I guess if one person really likes something and the other doesn't, maybe the best thing to do would be to try to find a middle ground. It doesn't sound like the OP's wife is interested in doing that. Just saying to accept something isn't going to work, if it is significant for one of the people. 

I actually agree with your second point about how some times you are not physically up to a sexual act. I absolutely think there needs to be room for give and take, for not being physically able/willing, etc... I got the feeling from the OP that his wife was saying, she never wanted to give a bj. To me, that is a completely different situation. 

As far as the anal comment goes, I would counter with this. Your husband suddenly no longer wants to have anything to do with your family. He tried spending time with them, but he doesn't like it. So, he will never do it again. If you want to see your family, it will have to be without him. Are you okay with that? Would it bother you? (I realize you can't force him to do it, but would it bother you?) If not, then go back to my conversation analogy. Would you accept never having a meaningful conversation again with your husband? I mean, you can't force someone to have a conversation anymore than you can force them into a sex act. Maybe this is the point where you stand up and say, "Hey, this is something I REALLY care about."


----------



## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Vega said:


> WHERE in the bible does it say that the wife "shall give her husband blow jobs"? :scratchhead:





Maricha75 said:


> Just before it says "Thou shalt allow him to put his penis in your anus"


:rofl::rofl:

can't breathe:rofl:


----------



## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Isn't the bottom line here that marriage intimacy should be a give and take issue?

When one spouse refuses to give and take (at least to the degree of pleasuring without physically hurting) then the relationship lacks a loving component and counciling or other options must be considered.


----------



## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

TopsyTurvy5 said:


> So, if your husband suddenly said he no longer wanted to have deep, meaningful conversations with you, because he just doesn't like them, would you be okay with that? I mean, you can't force him to have a conversation with you, right? He tried it, he doesn't like it. So, you should accept it. You understand the concept of "No means no." Does that cross the line for you?


See, we're not even on the same page on this whole thing. If my husband were to compare deep, meaningful conversation to sex, it wouldn't compute with me. For me, sex = sex, talking = talking. So, deep, meaningful conversations, I would just have them with my sisters and/or friends. So, no, it doesn't cross the line for me. What WOULD cross the line for me is if he decided to stop having sex altogether if he wasn't getting one specific act that I made apparent from the start was not something I wanted to do. (Doing something VERY rarely does convey this message.)



TopsyTurvy5 said:


> SNow, I'm not saying you should force someone to perform a sex act- I find that abhorrent, actually. I guess if one person really likes something and the other doesn't, maybe the best thing to do would be to try to find a middle ground. It doesn't sound like the OP's wife is interested in doing that. Just saying to accept something isn't going to work, if it is significant for one of the people.
> 
> I actually agree with your second point about how some times you are not physically up to a sexual act. I absolutely think there needs to be room for give and take, for not being physically able/willing, etc... I got the feeling from the OP that his wife was saying, she never wanted to give a bj. To me, that is a completely different situation.


Again, it's something the OP's wife made apparent from the start...by doing it very rarely. And, tbh, you can tell if they want to or not. Even when they are doing it. IF you are paying attention. But, either he ignored it or assumed she would "get over it" and do it anyway. 



TopsyTurvy5 said:


> As far as the anal comment goes, I would counter with this. Your husband suddenly no longer wants to have anything to do with your family. He tried spending time with them, but he doesn't like it. So, he will never do it again. If you want to see your family, it will have to be without him. Are you okay with that? Would it bother you? (I realize you can't force him to do it, but would it bother you?) If not, then go back to my conversation analogy. Would you accept never having a meaningful conversation again with your husband? I mean, you can't force someone to have a conversation anymore than you can force them into a sex act. Maybe this is the point where you stand up and say, "Hey, this is something I REALLY care about."


Again, apples and oranges. Sex = sex. If he didn't want to spend time with my family, of course I would be disappointed. But not spending time with my family would be equal to ME not spending time with HIS family. But, I would accept it, even while being disappointed. Why? Because I can't force him to spend time with them. 

Truthfully, I don't understand why deep, meaningful conversations are brought into discussions like this, and why I get asked that question, "How would you feel if....?" when comparing sex and conversations. They are not equal to me. For me, specifically, if I were to never give my husband oral sex again, I would expect the reciprocal to be no oral sex for me. If I were to keep interrupting him when he is trying to speak, I would expect him to no longer wish to engage in conversations with me. Understand? Like = like. Stop one sex act = stop a reciprocal sex act. Stop deep conversations = stop engaging in conversations. So, the sex = conversation analogy doesn't work with me.


----------



## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> Just before it says "Thou shalt allow him to put his penis in your anus"


To be fair, I mentioned this thread to my dad and he brought up the book Song of Solomon. I guess oral sex is mentioned in there. HOWEVER, don't get your knickers in a twist just yet. It doesn't give a command that anyone HAS to do it. Just implies that oral sex is "allowable". But it's definitely some interesting reading.


----------



## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

men who complain that there wife won't give head and then say she was never really into it. made a poor choice for a wife.


women who did it and then decided that she dosen't like it after marriage are manipulating and eventually their husband will figure it out and hopefully send them packing!


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Topsy, you have no idea how I feel about blowjobs. Your assumption is based on an erroneous belief.

You might want to work on that.

Are you even married?


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Thing is, you can marry a woman who went down on you every day before the wedding to find it has all been a ploy.

Assumptions will always get you into trouble.

The guys who get married thinking they just bought into an unending sexual experience are those who are most disappointed to learn that not everything can be negotiated. What they wanted was a prostitute because they aren't allowed to say no. What they never did before marriage was establish their expectations. They are afraid to rock the boat when things are good so why bring it up? And they are afraid to make their desires known before marriage because she might leave him. 

So Topsy, you would take it up the ass for me if I were your wife and believed it was a sexual need for me to penetrate my husband?


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

*Re: Re: Wife does not give BJ's at all*



Maricha75 said:


> To be fair, I mentioned this thread to my dad and he brought up the book Song of Solomon. I guess oral sex is mentioned in there. HOWEVER, don't get your knickers in a twist just yet. It doesn't give a command that anyone HAS to do it. Just implies that oral sex is "allowable". But it's definitely some interesting reading.


I'm going to have to reread it. I don't remember any clear references. I also don't remember any stating oral is a no go.


----------



## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

Wow. 16 pages long. Lots of differing opinions here. 

I feel badly for the OP. He married a woman who likes sex with the lights off, missionary only and no oral. That being said, it was an arranged marriage. So it likely was not the kind of marriage we have here in that states where you choose your mate, fall in love and then get married and have sex .

I could not imagine being expected to have sex ,much less oral with a strange man, even if it is one I agreed to marry. A year and a half is not that long. And we have no idea what has happened in that year and a half. Has it been marital bliss or marital hell. That changes a lot of things. If you guys have not gotten along well or things have not been wonderful there could be a lot of pain and hurt there. But lets assume you guys have gotten along great, there are still many factors to consider why she does what she does. (or won't do) Inexperience, fear, intimidation, upbringing, it sounds as if doesn't realize sex can be fun. 

I remember when I first got married, I kept my shirt on, left the lights off, and hid under the covers while we did it missionary. Eventually over time i learned that sex was OK. I didn't like to give BJ's. I never have. I still don't. I have never yet gotten my H completely off with oral sex alone and we have been married 20 years. PLEASE DON'T YELL AT ME OR JUDGE ME. It just is what it is. 

A [email protected] in my mouth, ewwwww. You pee out of it. YUCK!!! It is sweaty, smelly, and you poke it inside of me on occasion and then expect me to stick it in my mouth after that or even at a later date, ummmmm NO WAY. I was raised in a very modest christian family. And you don't just go around sucking peoples [email protected] You keep your clothes on and keep your nudity to your self. 

Now after 20 years of marriage. Lights on, doggy, any room in the house, what ever. I still do not give BJ's. I  have a tiny mouth, a hair trigger gag reflex, I still don't feel like a [email protected] belongs in anyones mouth. That is up to the individual. (My H also disagrees like many men here do) He would love to have oral way more often then he gets it. 

I have a history of rape mainly threw oral force. And my H knows he will not be getting any BJ's. That is just off limits for me. He learned to live with this unfortunate fact. Since he has left me alone and not asked or pestered me for oral I have surprised him and done it a time or to in the past year. I mean a time or TWO. Twice a year max is about I am willing to do. 

Pressuring, denying, or begging are tactics that do not work. Nor do buying or giving (anything oral or otherwise) increase the likely hood of that happening. 

My H gets lucky and and receives oral when the moon and stars align with the planets and my hormones, as well as him being very nice and trustworthy and pleasant, and happy and not arguing with me over things. So obviously he doesn't get BJ's very often. More because he can't play nice, behave in a trust worthy way(I don't trust him with his words), act happy, or avoid arguments or disagree and carry out his actions in an appropriate respectful way. It is more likely that the stars, planets and moon will align then these other things will happen. 

I am a christian, I hate to even suggest this but here goes anyway. Since we have no idea where you are located, could you have a mistress or concubine. (much like an open marriage)

Do you love your wife otherwise? Are things well between the two of you except the different taste in sex? How old is this woman you are married to? You stated you were 29. Is she 14,18, 25, 39? That could make a difference. After being married for a year and a half do you know her past sexual history? Was she married in the past to an abusive man, did she have an abusive father or brother. Was she hurt sexually in any way in the past either by you or by someone else. 

If you are in a good relationship and she simply doesn't like to have oral or much sex at all all I can suggest is 3 possible answers:

1. Divorce, it is still early on (I don't think divorce under that circumstance is biblical or humane) 

2. With your wife's permission allow a mistress or concubine to enter the picture. (Again not what I would choose, but some folks do, As a christian I am not suggesting or condoning that)

3. Stay and hope it improves, live a life with no BJ's. Enjoy the things you can share. And hope her sexual taste change as she gets to know you and trust you more.


----------



## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

Maricha75 said:


> To be fair, I mentioned this thread to my dad and he brought up the book Song of Solomon. I guess oral sex is mentioned in there. HOWEVER, don't get your knickers in a twist just yet. It doesn't give a command that anyone HAS to do it. Just implies that oral sex is "allowable". But it's definitely some interesting reading.


The sexual references are all metaphorical and lose most of their force outside of the MT. Even in the LXX, they're pretty weak. 

Not surprisingly, fundamentalist flavors of Christianity deny that there is any hidden meaning to expression like, "_I sat down under his shadow with great delight, and his fruit was sweet to my taste._"


----------



## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

ocotillo said:


> Maricha75 said:
> 
> 
> > To be fair, I mentioned this thread to my dad and he brought up the book Song of Solomon. I guess oral sex is mentioned in there. HOWEVER, don't get your knickers in a twist just yet. It doesn't give a command that anyone HAS to do it. Just implies that oral sex is "allowable". But it's definitely some interesting reading.
> ...


LOL Not this fundamentalist! However, I would argue about whether or not it is sweet to my taste. It is not. Not even close. Not the point, though. The point is that even without seeing that passage, I saw nothing wrong with giving oral to my husband.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

DTO said:


> A very good counselor once told me that people choose partners based on a balance of "how does this person enhance my life" and "do I like this person enough to give back in kind". I think a given individual is flexible (to an extent) in how they need a partner to enhance their lives. And, I think sex life is one of many ways a partner can do that.
> 
> And, I dislike the connotation of "demand". As I said, no one should force anyone to do anything. "Demand" to me means actual force, the threat of force, or the threat of allowing harm(like kicking someone out who has no place to go). Saying "I must have this to remain in this relationship" is not demanding, it is setting a boundary (however inappropriate it may be).
> 
> ...


So, one way I can answer your question. Life is a compromise, you try to give 100% because that's what you do, it's what you are. If you are careful to give only what you think is coming back to you then that's who you are. You can bury your gifts and refuse to give because you think you deserved more. 

Being miserable over a sex act seems stupid to me. A man is not entitled to try every sex act that he can think up in life because he has a wife available. That has to be one tenet of marriage that seems to be missing. 

If some men regarded their wives as feeling human beings, how can they stand to watch her do something she does not like and get an orgasm? He is not seeing his wife who he says he loves, but a substitute for a sex ideal in his head. 

I have made several suggestion about compromises, how to proceed slowly with patience and kindness. Only one man commented on them. Otherwise they were ignored. 

It's easy to talk about compromise when you mean the wife has to compromise, e.i. do exactly what her husband wants, the way he wants it and when he wants. You justify a sense of entitlement and lack of empathy by overvaluing yourself and devaluing your wife. 

The way some men talk about their wives is appalling to me. It's a way of creating an adversary who deserves to be treated with little regard. I wouldn't let such a person near my private parts, too unsafe. 

This all has nothing to do with intimacy, love, affection, or mutual satisfaction.


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Maricha75 said:


> To be fair, I mentioned this thread to my dad and he brought up the book Song of Solomon. I guess oral sex is mentioned in there. HOWEVER, don't get your knickers in a twist just yet. It doesn't give a command that anyone HAS to do it. Just implies that oral sex is "allowable". But it's definitely some interesting reading.


I sat down under his shadow with great delight, and his fruit was sweet to my taste. 2:3

Seems pretty clear to me, especially when taken in the whole of the text.

They were getting their freak on.


----------



## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

Green light and even encouragement for oral in the CONTEXT OF MARRIAGE.


----------



## khaleesiwife (May 9, 2014)

Yes, you have a right to say no.. but then have a husband on TAM complaining that you suck.. no pun intended. If she's not in it to please him then why get married. She can be single and not do it at all..


----------



## khaleesiwife (May 9, 2014)

Talk to me with respect. If you disagree then respectfully do so. My point was that I was that shy wife and if you can read you'd see that the Bible was mentioned. But for your viewing pleasure I will remove my post because you don't want this problem Lady. And remember, what you won't do some other woman will.. Trust.


----------



## khaleesiwife (May 9, 2014)

Maricha75 said:


> You know what? It's great that works for YOUR sex life... but guess what? This ain't YOUR sex life. And its not mine, either. Hey, you said you're a Christian, right? So am I. And there are some things I will not do. Period. Chief of which is anal sex. That is not on the menu, ever. Even if my husband said "I want to try it", it would not be done.
> 
> And, I'm sorry, but where did the OP state that he, or his wife, is a Christian? If he has not stated such, then neither your position as a Christian, nor mine, will have no bearing on this discussion. Frankly, it doesn't anyway. And suggesting that he, essentially, FORCE his wife to do something he already knows she didn't care for, FROM THE BEGINNING? Are you NUTS? No, seriously. Are you? In what universe is it EVER ok to force your spouse to do anything sexual? *IT IS NOT EVER ACCEPTABLE!*
> 
> *smh*


Look, I was trying to be funny and light with my reply. I didn't mean to offend anyone. But we ARE on here to give advice and maybe what worked for ME will work for HER. I never said to force anyone to do anything Mam, I just concluded that maybe she's shy like I was.. No need to take offense to my post. You can RESPECTFULLY disagree but last I checked my marriage was fantastic so maybe, just maybe he can learn something. Maybe you can too..


----------



## TopsyTurvy5 (Nov 16, 2013)

Your entire response is based on the idea that you and your husband will want all things equally. Is there anything you really want with him/from him that he does not? I don't think it is just a situation where if one partner doesn't want something the other should let it go and sacrifice themselves. At some point there could be/will be something very meaningful that somebody has to give up. Do that enough times and resentment will erode the relationship. 

The analogy of a conversation was done to try to find something you consider more meaningful than your husband might. It doesn't appear that topic rang with you, so pick one that does and explain how you would deal with the inequality. 

Personally I don't think it is realistic/healthy to sacrifice your needs/desires over and over.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

TopsyTurvy5 said:


> Your entire response is based on the idea that you and your husband will want all things equally. Is there anything you really want with him/from him that he does not? I don't think it is just a situation where if one partner doesn't want something the other should let it go and sacrifice themselves. At some point there could be/will be something very meaningful that somebody has to give up. Do that enough times and resentment will erode the relationship.
> 
> The analogy of a conversation was done to try to find something you consider more meaningful than your husband might. It doesn't appear that topic rang with you, so pick one that does and explain how you would deal with the inequality.
> 
> ...


Hey, I'm not saying that everything is equal with us. We both have made sacrifices over the years. What I'm saying is that he and I see like = like. We don't view conversation = sex, or dishes = blow job (just an example, to illustrate). And, since we haven't come across anything that hasn't been worked out adequately for both of us, it's not something that I can really imagine. Even when we did have problems, it ended up being worked out. Is our marriage perfect? No. All I'm saying is that even if sacrifices are made, we both make them, and we don't view sex = conversations = housework. Sex = sex, conversation = conversation, housework/yardwork = housework/yardwork. One is not a bargaining chip for another. FTR, I don't believe one person should sacrifice, bending over backwards, time and again. It should be equal.


----------



## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

khaleesiwife said:


> Look, I was trying to be funny and light with my reply. I didn't mean to offend anyone. But we ARE on here to give advice and maybe what worked for ME will work for HER. I never said to force anyone to do anything Mam, I just concluded that maybe she's shy like I was.. No need to take offense to my post. You can RESPECTFULLY disagree but last I checked my marriage was fantastic so maybe, just maybe he can learn something. Maybe you can too..


Well, telling OP to tell his wife to "suck it", isn't light and funny, IMO. It seems more like a condescending approach to telling her to "get over it and do it anyway, whether she likes it or not." And that's what I was responding to. Had you said "Hey, I used to be really shy, and unsure about BJs. I didn't care for giving them, in the beginning. But, the more I did, the more I noticed my husband was pleased, and he functions better, etc. Because of this, I do it often, and enjoy it."...you likely would have had more favorable responses. 

Perhaps you are right, though. Perhaps I CAN learn something from you. I'll be sure to let you know if that happens.


----------



## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

khaleesiwife said:


> Careful Girl, the prudes are riding this post in an effort to protest anything that's not vanilla. It's a shame. Then they wonder why they're having problems in their marriages.. Good post.


That's just rude. Hopefully I'm not the only one who reported it.


----------



## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

I would not want oral if you have to beg or always ask for it. people who are not into giving suck pretty bad at it when they do!

nothing worse than a halfa$$ed blow job. you feel bad because its sub par and they feel bad because they feel forced to to it.

its a lose lose situation.


----------



## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

chillymorn said:


> I would not want oral if you have to beg or always ask for it. people who are not into giving suck pretty bad at it when they do!
> 
> nothing worse than a halfa$$ed blow job. you feel bad because its sub par and they feel bad because they feel forced to to it.
> 
> its a lose lose situation.


:iagree: If DH rolled his eyes and sighed every time he went down on me I think I'd cry and not even want sex LOL

Part of what makes oral so great is bc he's so enthusiastic about it.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

chillymorn said:


> men who complain that there wife won't give head and then say she was never really into it. made a poor choice for a wife.


I will never ever ever ever ever ever ever understand people who marry a spouse who doesn't do/like "x" and then get all up and arms when the status quo continues.

Seriously. 

It's not like you were under a different impression at the time of marriage/dating/courtship/etc.


----------



## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> I will never ever ever ever ever ever ever understand people who marry a spouse who doesn't do/like "x" and then get all up and arms when the status quo continues.
> 
> Seriously.
> 
> It's not like you were under a different impression at the time of marriage/dating/courtship/etc.


there are the cases of the old bait and switch.

on both sides of the gender fence.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

chillymorn said:


> there are the cases of the old bait and switch.
> 
> on both sides of the gender fence.


Actually, only on the side of the person expecting something different from the person they married, knowing full well said person has never been into it it never did it or only rarely did it in the first place.

It is not like they were blind-sided.


----------



## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

It will backfire it always does


----------



## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> Actually, only on the side of the person expecting something different from the person they married, knowing full well said person has never been into it it never did it or only rarely did it in the first place.
> 
> It is not like they were blind-sided.


nope have to disagree with you on this.

there are people who act much different when dating in reguards to sex and romance then once married change like a switch being turned off.

but in the vast majority of the time its like you said they just thought well if they loved me they would romance me or give head.

my point being when that happens cut your losses.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

chillymorn said:


> nope have to disagree with you on this.
> 
> there are people who act much different when dating in reguards to sex and romance then once married change like a switch being turned off.
> 
> ...


Maybe some wives don't really like oral, but they like the response they get out of hubby and how happy he is about it.


----------



## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

treyvion said:


> Maybe some wives don't really like oral, but they like the response they get out of hubby and how happy he is about it.


maybe.

then I would say they like it. or the end result makes her like it. so she dose it with gusto and without reservation.


----------



## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

ROFL thinking about giving head with gusto!


----------



## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

my most recent text to DH "well baby you better look out bc tonight you're getting it with GUSTO!!" 


ROFL he was like "wth?...OK!!"


----------



## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> ROFL thinking about giving head with gusto!


The bind moggles!:lol:


----------



## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

ScarletBegonias said:


> ROFL thinking about giving head with gusto!


well I'd bet if you asked a hundred men if they would prefer their wife giving head with gusto or just 2 mins of do I have to he would pick gusto every time.:smthumbup:


----------



## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

Cosmos said:


> The bind moggles!:lol:


I don't like to give BJ's but like Larry the Cable Guy says "I don't care where ya from now that s funny." Thanks for a good laugh.


----------



## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

chillymorn said:


> but in the vast majority of the time its like you said they just thought well *if they loved me they would *romance me or *give head*.
> 
> .


Whoa...

What I bolded reminds me too much of high school. If a high school boy said this to a girl we would say he was being manipulative. 

Why is it any different if that "boy" is saying the same thing to his wife?


----------



## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

Vega said:


> Whoa...
> 
> What I bolded reminds me too much of high school. If a high school boy said this to a girl we would say he was being manipulative.
> 
> Why is it any different if that "boy" is saying the same thing to his wife?


He is not a "boy" but a grown married husband asking his loving wife to give him oral pleasure. A big difference.


----------



## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

over20 said:


> He is not a "boy" but a grown married husband asking his loving wife to give him oral pleasure. A big difference.


And if this grown married husband asks her to do something sexually that she doesn't want to do, or that she finds distasteful (no pun intended), does that mean *she* doesn't "*love*" *him*?

Seems to me that a 'grown' (a.k.a. emotionally _mature_) married man wouldn't require that of his wife.


----------



## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

I saw this thread was still alive and this was all I could think of:

http://awesomegifs.com/wp-content/uploads/dead-horse.gif


----------



## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

I see your point , but a wife that is well informed and truly desires to meet her husbands sexual needs will indeed perform oral on her husband.

See this is the difference, females are trying to view male sexuality through female goggles. It will never be

A loving married man does not require this of his wife, It his HOPE for his wife.


----------



## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

over20 said:


> I see your point , but *a wife that is well informed and truly desires to meet her husbands sexual needs will indeed perform oral on her husband.*


What I've bolded just seems to be a more _sophisticated_ way of saying, "she would if she loves me..."


Of course we would want to please our spouse sexually, but when it comes with the added expense of constantly sacrificing ourselves, then the price is too high. 

I might have sex with my husband in every position known to man, have sex with him between one and three times a *day*, give him hand jobs whenever he wants, and willingly accept anal. 

But if I don't give him a blow job _in addition to _everything else, somehow *I'M* being "selfish" and I don't "love" him???????

Noooooo. No. No. No.

That sounds to me like a man who is _greedy_. He's not appreciating what he IS getting from his wife and is too focused on what he ISN'T getting.


----------



## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

over20 said:


> I see your point , but a wife that is well informed and truly desires to meet her husbands sexual needs will indeed perform oral on her husband.


"Well informed"? Sorry, over20, but even the "well informed" know that performig oral on her husband isn't a _requirement_ to meet her husband's sexual needs. As Vega pointed out, there are other things that can be done.



over20 said:


> See this is the difference, females are trying to view male sexuality through female goggles. It will never be


Some of us are speaking from the experience with our own husbands. We know what satisfies them, and that is our reference point. So, it's not about "trying to view male sexuality through female goggles". It's about viewing from our own experiences. Even my own husband rolled his eyes at the premise of the OP: withhold sex because hes not getting oral sex. Heh, so did my dad! Even with my dad bringing up the book Song of Solomon the other day, he still said it's not a _requirement_ (from the Christian perspective). And when my husband was told about it, he said the same thing. 



over20 said:


> A loving married man does not require this of his wife, It his HOPE for his wife.


And a loving husband wouldn't behave like a petulant child, purposing to withhold all sex bacause he's not getting a blow job. That makes him look more like the little "boy" in Vega's example.


----------



## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

I'm trying to picture how it would go down in our bedroom if DH was like, Nope.You're not getting the D til you suck it. 

ROFLMAO


----------



## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Vega said:


> Whoa...
> 
> What I bolded reminds me too much of high school. If a high school boy said this to a girl we would say he was being manipulative.
> 
> Why is it any different if that "boy" is saying the same thing to his wife?


whats your point you took my quote out of context.


----------



## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

if oral is something you husband desires I would consider it a sexual need.


how about romancing your wife if its something your wife desires shouldn't the husband try to meet her need?


----------



## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

chillymorn said:


> if oral is something you husband desires I would consider it a sexual need.
> 
> 
> how about romancing your wife if its something your wife desires shouldn't the husband try to meet her need?


I really do agree that we should give it our best shot when it comes to meeting the needs of our spouse. 

But for the BJ thing,what if a woman tries and can't stop gagging? What if she's such a trooper that she keeps trying til she vomits from gagging? I mean,that's not sexy.Why would any man want to put his wife through that? If romancing me caused DH to break out in hives or gag til he puked..I think I'd find a way to live without romance or get a divorce.


----------



## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I really do agree that we should give it our best shot when it comes to meeting the needs of our spouse.
> 
> But for the BJ thing,what if a woman tries and can't stop gagging? What if she's such a trooper that she keeps trying til she vomits from gagging? I mean,that's not sexy.Why would any man want to put his wife through that? If romancing me caused DH to break out in hives or gag til he puked..I think I'd find a way to live without romance or get a divorce.


I agree.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

over20 said:


> I see your point , but a wife *that is well informed *and truly desires to meet her husbands sexual needs will indeed perform oral on her husband..


:scratchhead:

Well-informed? To me a man who KNOWS full well his wife rarely or did not ever give him BJs during their courtships and MARRIED her anyway was the one who was well-informed and now is complaining. This is similar to buying pizza and expecting it to be steak.



over20 said:


> See this is the difference, females are trying to view male sexuality through female goggles. It will never be


There is so much weird with that statement. It comes across as anti-woman. Or stereotyping women. Or sort of saying that women must or must not do XYZ. Ick.

This all goes back to the OP knowing his wife was NOT into it and now expecting her to be into it.

I am a big fan of oral. I could *never* be with someone who didn't do it to me. Likewise, I am a giver.

So that is the difference. If I know a man does not like to go down on me or doesn't go down on me while we are DATING, I would certainly NEVER marry him. Because that is stupid. To expect someone to suddenly start doing something they never or very rarely did is called "you willingly chose wrong." 

This isn't about "female goggles" - it's about common sense and it isn't *gender-specific*.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

chillymorn said:


> nope have to disagree with you on this.
> 
> there are people who act much different when dating in reguards to sex and romance then once married change like a switch being turned off.


But she didn't change. OP knew when he was dating her she was NOT that into to BJs. For him to expect her to be something different now is ridiculous. That was bad on him. He chose to marry her knowing that. That was his choice.




chillymorn said:


> my point being when it happens, cut your losses


Which is why he shouldn't have gotten married to her since he already knew.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I really do agree that we should give it our best shot when it comes to meeting the needs of our spouse.
> 
> But for the BJ thing,what if a woman tries and can't stop gagging? What if she's such a trooper that she keeps trying til she vomits from gagging? I mean,that's not sexy.Why would any man want to put his wife through that? If romancing me caused DH to break out in hives or gag til he puked..I think I'd find a way to live without romance or get a divorce.


Like I said. "Deep throating" is not necessary. If she wants to try to master the skill fine, but I cannot insist on it, it's up to her.


----------



## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

treyvion said:


> ScarletBegonias said:
> 
> 
> > I really do agree that we should give it our best shot when it comes to meeting the needs of our spouse.
> ...


Treyvion,
Unfortunately, there are some whose gag reflex begins the minute the head goes into the mouth. For some, they can get past it. For others, they can't. "Deep throating" has nothing to do with it.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

treyvion said:


> Like I said. "Deep throating" is not necessary. If she wants to try to master the skill fine, but I cannot insist on it, it's up to her.





Maricha75 said:


> Treyvion,
> Unfortunately, there are some whose gag reflex begins the minute the head goes into the mouth. For some, they can get past it. For others, they can't. "Deep throating" has nothing to do with it.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


Took the words right out of my mouth,Maricha 

The gag reflex for some people is so severe that when brushing their teeth they can only brush the front portion of their tongue. So strong that they can't eat lollipops or popsicles. 

Like Maricha said,for some it isn't about deep throating.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Maricha75 said:


> Treyvion,
> Unfortunately, there are some whose gag reflex begins the minute the head goes into the mouth. For some, they can get past it. For others, they can't. "Deep throating" has nothing to do with it.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


that would be unfortunate. I guess the reflex doesn't want anything in the mouth except food.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Have YOU ever tried deep throating? It's not all bells and whistles if you gag. :rofl:


----------



## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> Have YOU ever tried deep throating? It's not all bells and whistles if you gag. :rofl:


I need new glasses... I misread "bells"


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

thanks for the coffee through my nose, maricha.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Maricha75 said:


> I need new glasses... I misread "bells"


:rofl:


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Every single woman posting on thread is aware that a man has the ability to cheat to get what he claims is a sexual need met. Using this as an example of why another woman should do things she does not want to do is a threat that has no place in marriage, especially not in a christian marriage, H. 

same for the person who said they weren't suggesting a prostitute because they are are Christan while making it their number two suggestion. Bit at least it was asking permission to go outside the marriage first. Problem with this is it supports the idea that just because a guy wants something he should be able to have it.

If none of the guys who believe that the woman should go down on the guy no matter what would also indulge her theoretical desire to peg him with 8" of simulated wholesome goodness then I think they have a serious double standard to address.

The belief that standing up for another woman's right to refuse an act she cannot stomach means that those women are prudes or vanilla in bedroom is akin to name calling. I do not believe that my sexual behavior should in any way change another woman's right to say no... Nor a man's for that matter.

In fact, it muddies the water. The argument than becomes "since you do it you must believe X, Y or Z about oral sex" when my beliefs, feelings, desires, etc. do not change how she feels and not should they. Why would I want to pressure a woman into doing something that will ultimately make her feel bad about herself and her mate? How would that help her marriage?

If she were to post asking for help to try to change her thinking it would be different. But that is not the case here.

I feel very sorry for young women because too many young men truly believe they are entitled to what they believe everyone else is getting. They have all sorts of arguments that contradict themselves. They simply refuse to acknowledge the reality that they are not guaranteed to get the sex they want simply because they got married. 

Accept it. Deal with it.

It is a fact of life that all people have the right to refuse to do things that make them uncomfortable. To deny someone that right because the thing is sex and the person is a wife is scary.

No matter how they try to cover up that underlying message with words like compromise and love, that underlying message remains. Surely the people making that argument see it too. They aren't stupid.


----------



## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

clipclop2 said:


> Every single woman posting on thread is aware that a man has the ability to cheat to get what he claims is a sexual need met. Using this as an example of why another woman should do things she does not want to do is a threat that has no place in marriage, especially not in a christian marriage, H.
> 
> same for the person who said they weren't suggesting a prostitute because they are are Christan while making it their number two suggestion. Bit at least it was asking permission to go outside the marriage first. Problem with this is it supports the idea that just because a guy wants something he should be able to have it.
> 
> ...


this is true for all maraige problems.

when the wife may want more kids and the husband says no hes ok with one.

what if the wife says she just isn't having any sex should the husband be ok with that ?

I call bull there always room for compromise and jello.


----------



## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I really do agree that we should give it our best shot when it comes to meeting the needs of our spouse.
> 
> But for the BJ thing,what if a woman tries and can't stop gagging? What if she's such a trooper that she keeps trying til she vomits from gagging? I mean,that's not sexy.Why would any man want to put his wife through that? If romancing me caused DH to break out in hives or gag til he puked..I think I'd find a way to live without romance or get a divorce.


I read that smoking pot helps inhibit the gag reflex. Seriously. I wish I could find the link to that article.


----------



## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

doubletrouble said:


> I read that smoking pot helps inhibit the gag reflex. Seriously. I wish I could find the link to that article.


I've heard that before too. Also helps people have orgasms easier apparently


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

We are not discussing a situation where there is no sex. The woman has sex with him. 

Zero sex is zero marriage. That's entirely different. But that is not the story here.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

clipclop2 said:


> Every single woman posting on thread is aware that a man has the ability to cheat to get what he claims is a sexual need met. Using this as an example of why another woman should do things she does not want to do is a threat that has no place in marriage, especially not in a christian marriage, H.


If another woman would be happy to do the things the wife literally deprives you of, then why be married?



clipclop2 said:


> same for the person who said they weren't suggesting a prostitute because they are are Christan while making it their number two suggestion. Bit at least it was asking permission to go outside the marriage first. Problem with this is it supports the idea that just because a guy wants something he should be able to have it.


I don't think using a prostitute would make someone feel better about themselves. Especially if they can't procure sex without payment, it would make someone feel worse and lock them into a cycle where they think they have to pay someone for it.



clipclop2 said:


> If none of the guys who believe that the woman should go down on the guy no matter what would also indulge her theoretical desire to peg him with 8" of simulated wholesome goodness then I think they have a serious double standard to address.


Going down on the guy in no way equals taking it up the tailpipe. If she is ok with you eating her, she should be ok with sucking you.



clipclop2 said:


> The belief that standing up for another woman's right to refuse an act she cannot stomach means that those women are prudes or vanilla in bedroom is akin to name calling. I do not believe that my sexual behavior should in any way change another woman's right to say no... Nor a man's for that matter.


A woman does have a right to say no. A man also has a right to say this is not what he wants to do, that he wants to do something with someone else then.



clipclop2 said:


> In fact, it muddies the water. The argument than becomes "since you do it you must believe X, Y or Z about oral sex" when my beliefs, feelings, desires, etc. do not change how she feels and not should they. Why would I want to pressure a woman into doing something that will ultimately make her feel bad about herself and her mate? How would that help her marriage?


She could learn to like it. Perhaps look outside of her box. I agree pressuring shouldnt' be the way, but just imagine how many "bad boys" use tricks, leverages, etc and get away with it.



clipclop2 said:


> If she were to post asking for help to try to change her thinking it would be different. But that is not the case here.
> 
> I feel very sorry for young women because too many young men truly believe they are entitled to what they believe everyone else is getting.


I also have the belief that I should have at least an average sex life, preferably much greater than average. If the woman I am dealing with wants to marginalize me below this, then it's up to me to find a different partner for sexual relations.



clipclop2 said:


> They have all sorts of arguments that contradict themselves. They simply refuse to acknowledge the reality that they are not guaranteed to get the sex they want simply because they got married.


Agree. In many situations marriage is a guarantee you will work harder and get less. Being married does not give you conjugal rights to the person. Hell, she could give the conjugal right to an outsider and use the husband to pay bills and help take care of the kids.



clipclop2 said:


> Accept it. Deal with it.
> 
> It is a fact of life that all people have the right to refuse to do things that make them uncomfortable. To deny someone that right because the thing is sex and the person is a wife is scary.


If your wife is depriving you from even an average sexual experience and this is important to you, then you will have to either take on a sexual partner or leave and get another.



clipclop2 said:


> No matter how they try to cover up that underlying message with words like compromise and love, that underlying message remains. Surely the people making that argument see it too. They aren't stupid.


You would think in compromise and love people can be more giving, to perhaps do some things which aren't their personal favorites for the pleasure of their spouse.


----------



## lifeisbetterthanalternat (Apr 24, 2012)

As with anything in life sometims the best approach is to lead by example. Perhaps if you demonstrate a consistant habit of making sacrifices yourself that she may be more willing to do the same. It is worth a try. I would also not refer to it as a "blow job" tell her that you really enjoy when she puts it in her mouth. make it should like the loving jesture that it is rather than a "job" it should never be an obligation. I am not sure if you told us (or know) her reason for not liking it. 

I was single a long time before i got married...and the only time I had a women gag was when i became overly enthusiastic and put it in too deep. I think the majority of women's objection to the act are one (or a combination of)the following: 

1) It is really not that fun for them-IE they don't "get off" 
2) The "ick factor" IE a [email protected] doesn't belong there. I think this is big for some women and should not be discarded. Some women were raised to think this is an act for prostitutes and porn stars. 
3) better to put it in the "proper hole" 
4) they don't find semen to taste good 

I agree with others that a nobody should force another to do an act that they consider vile or physically uncomfortable. I also think that 

For the record if my wife really wanted to peg me with 8" I would get some lube and give it a try.....who know..If i got over the homophobic thing i might enjoy it.


----------



## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

It is a fact of life that all people have the right to refuse to do things that make them uncomfortable. To deny someone that right because the thing is sex and the person is a wife is scary.


on both sides of the fence. some things are deal breaker! but don't act suprised when the next guy also wants some oral and because of hang up he kicks her to the curb also. and the next and so on and so on.


----------



## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

lifeisbetterthanalternat said:


> For the record if my wife really wanted to peg me with 8" I would get some lube and give it a try.....who know..If i got over the homophobic thing i might enjoy it.


So, you have a girlfriend. Someone you really like and have fallen in love with. One night she suggests "pegging" you with the 8-incher. You're up for it (excuse the pun) so you grab the lube and gave it a try. When it's all finished, you're feeling a little...confused. It wasn't terrible, but it wasn't exactly great either. Nevertheless, you vow to try it again at some point in the future before making up your mind about it. 

In fact, you DO try it again. You still feel the same way about it. But then you do something shortly afterwards: You get married. Shortly after you get married, you try this 'act' once more...

And decide that it's really not for you. She comes to TAM and tells her tale of woe of how you are REFUSING to 'take it up the azz', even though you did it before. 

Did you pull the 'bait and switch' on her? 

Should she cheat on you (as someone suggested) or divorce you in the name of getting HER 'sexual needs' met?

(Personally, I think that ALL men who want their wives/girlfriends to give them bj's should be willing to give one themselves at least ONCE in their lives, so they can experience what a woman goes through. Maybe once they felt someone's hands wrap around their head, shove their d*ck down their throat, and cum in their mouth, they might not be so smug about their SO's doing this!)


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Vega said:


> So, you have a girlfriend. Someone you really like and have fallen in love with. One night she suggests "pegging" you with the 8-incher. You're up for it (excuse the pun) so you grab the lube and gave it a try. When it's all finished, you're feeling a little...confused. It wasn't terrible, but it wasn't exactly great either. Nevertheless, you vow to try it again at some point in the future before making up your mind about it.
> 
> In fact, you DO try it again. You still feel the same way about it. But then you do something shortly afterwards: You get married. Shortly after you get married, you try this 'act' once more...
> 
> ...


----------



## long_done (Jun 5, 2014)

I'm a bit conservative when it comes to sex... I actually feel a lot of sympathy for the women when it comes to Oral... I know my junk is nasty with all of the pee and stuff in it... I would never even want to touch my own junk...I would never force a woman to put my junk in her mouth unless she was freely willing to do so.

To coerce someone to do so is pretty mean to me. But if it's your thing, I guess you should consider a divorce and move on. Life is too short to not get what you really want.

I wish you luck in finding a woman who will give you what you want.


----------



## TopsyTurvy5 (Nov 16, 2013)

clipclop2 said:


> Every single woman posting on thread is aware that a man has the ability to cheat to get what he claims is a sexual need met. Using this as an example of why another woman should do things she does not want to do is a threat that has no place in marriage, especially not in a christian marriage, H.
> 
> same for the person who said they weren't suggesting a prostitute because they are are Christan while making it their number two suggestion. Bit at least it was asking permission to go outside the marriage first. Problem with this is it supports the idea that just because a guy wants something he should be able to have it.
> 
> ...


Let's be clear, people are guaranteed nothing when they get married. They are not guaranteed PIV sex, they are not guaranteed conversation, they are not guaranteed being a priority, etc... 

Now, in our society, people EXPECT all of the things I mentioned. If they don't get those things, I believe most people would say there was a significant problem, even if one of the partners said no to those things. Does that make them "right"? No, just that some people expect those things.

Just because some may not view oral sex in this light doesn't mean no one does.

So, I keep saying this, should a woman just accept it and just deal with it if their spouse says no to PIV, no to conversation, and doesn't make them a priority?

In my opinion there is a choice, either find a compromise, deal with not getting what you want while the resentment grows, or leave. Certainly someone can just deal with it, but it would need to be something that wasn't very important to them.


----------



## Fun_One (May 28, 2014)

I'll bet that there's a direct correlation between the compliments of how great your SO is at giving BJs to the frequency. I repeatedly tell my W that she is the best and guess what, she is a lot more giving a lot more often.


----------



## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

over20 said:


> Re-read my post. I stated a loving married man would not require it of his wife,but would HOPE it for his wife, to a husband for his wife to perform oral to completion is a sign of complete acceptance on her part, a priceless gift she can give to him. I was trying to make the point that a very loving and knowledgeable wife would seek to meet her husbands deepest sexual needs. One of which most husbands crave is oral to completion.


And if you were to re-read my post, you would see that what I was saying is that a loving husband wouldn't act like a spoiled brat, saying "if I don't get a BJ, we're not having any sex." And if you noticed, I also said that some women can't get past that gag reflex, even after trying multiple times. Still, the "loving husband" sulks, complaining that she's not giving BJs. Yes, I get that many (not necessarily ALL) men hope that their wives will give them oral, even to completions. But when he starts sulking, after she has told him why she can't handle it, then he becomes an entitled ass. Sorry, I wouldn't blow someone like that... even if my gag reflex was fine. I very rarely, and I mean VERY RARELY give my husband a BJ. I am one whose gag reflex starts as soon as it goes into my mouth. Add to that, I cannot get down there very easily. We both have health problems that make it very difficult most of the time. My problems have been there from before we married, so BJs have been rare from the start. When I was pregnant, there were non-existent. I'd say the last time I gave him one was over a year ago. My loving husband understands my limitations, and accepts them. I, his loving wife, understand HIS limitations, and accept them. 

So, yes, over20, I DID read your post. I read it multiple times as I was replying the last time. You say a very loving and knowldgeable wife will seek to fulfill her husband's deepest sexual needs? I'd have to say we have no idea how loving and knowldgeable a wife is, whether she gives BJs or not.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Why was ClipClop banned?


----------



## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Maricha75 said:


> And if you were to re-read my post, you would see that what I was saying is that a loving husband wouldn't act like a spoiled brat, saying "if I don't get a BJ, we're not having any sex." And if you noticed, I also said that some women can't get past that gag reflex, even after trying multiple times. Still, the "loving husband" sulks, complaining that she's not giving BJs. Yes, I get that many (not necessarily ALL) men hope that their wives will give them oral, even to completions. But when he starts sulking, after she has told him why she can't handle it, then he becomes an entitled ass. Sorry, I wouldn't blow someone like that... even if my gag reflex was fine. I very rarely, and I mean VERY RARELY give my husband a BJ. I am one whose gag reflex starts as soon as it goes into my mouth. Add to that, I cannot get down there very easily. We both have health problems that make it very difficult most of the time. My problems have been there from before we married, so BJs have been rare from the start. When I was pregnant, there were non-existent. I'd say the last time I gave him one was over a year ago. My loving husband understands my limitations, and accepts them. I, his loving wife, understand HIS limitations, and accept them.
> 
> So, yes, over20, I DID read your post. I read it multiple times as I was replying the last time. You say a very loving and knowldgeable wife will seek to fulfill her husband's deepest sexual needs? I'd have to say we have no idea how loving and knowldgeable a wife is, whether she gives BJs or not.


I think this thread is more about wives who refuse to even try or have other hang ups about sex and don't realise the importance of being a good lover. I would have no problem if there was a good reason about not giving oral but a woman who says yuck I just don't do that but excepts it freely without giving freely is just selfish.


----------



## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Fun_One said:


> I'll bet that there's a direct correlation between the compliments of how great your SO is at giving BJs to the frequency. I repeatedly tell my W that she is the best and guess what, she is a lot more giving a lot more often.


My (now deceased) estranged husband requested a bj for his birthday from his g/f (before me). She obliged. He was THRILLED with her and told her that she did it like a "professional". He actually began to doubt that she was not as "experienced" at it as she claimed, and raised his suspicions to her. 

Guess how many bj's he got after that...

Guess how long it took her to make him her EX boyfriend...


----------



## long_done (Jun 5, 2014)

Vega said:


> My (now deceased) estranged husband requested a bj for his birthday from his g/f (before me). She obliged. He was THRILLED with her and told her that she did it like a "professional". He actually began to doubt that she was not as "experienced" at it as she claimed, and raised his suspicions to her.
> 
> Guess how many bj's he got after that...
> 
> Guess how long it took her to make him her EX boyfriend...


Indeed, what a dumb guy... dumb dumb guy!!! :scratchhead:

Never look a gift horse in the mouth...


----------



## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

How about you go down 5 times more than she does. Do better each time. Invest in your wife. Pace yourself. Go for a half hour and longer. Make sure she knows how grateful you are to have such a fine woman. Bet she tries to play catch-up. 

You are the leader. Give her something to follow. Show confidence. Be proud of her. Make love to her mind, not just her body.


----------



## Hurra (Sep 13, 2009)

I haven't read every post but I get the theme which is you can't force your spouse to do something he or she doesn't want to do, and you should accept it. Fair enough, after all you knew that going into the marriage. 

Well, the last sentence is usually not correct. My wife told me right from the start she didn't like giving BJs but made up for it in 'other ways'. That was not a show-stopper for me especially if there were other things she liked doing in the bedroom. Well a few weeks into the sexual stage of our dating, she surprised me with flavoured condoms. That was pretty cool of her and I enjoyed it, plus the other stuff we would do. 

So now we get into our married sex life, or lack thereof. No more flavoured condom BJs, or HJs, or different positions, or anything that is not her lying there with her legs opened and clothed from the waist up the one night a month she is not tired or complaining of some sort of ailment. She is not comfortable with anything else. Not the same woman prior marriage who made that effort. It is the classic bait and switch. 

And I'll tell you that she says she loves me many times a day because of all the stuff I do for her and the support I give her. I'm not saying I want a BJ or good sex in return, but it doesn't sound like there is a reason why I/we should not be having a good sex life, ie, its not like I am a slob that is lazy etc.


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Trey, there are no equivalent sexual acts. My use of pegging has obviously been over your head. It is an example that if there is any sexual act that you would not submit to then it is unreasonable to deny another person the right to refuse to perform/submit to their personal limiting act.

This thread is ridiculous.


----------



## Escaflowne (Jan 27, 2014)

Maricha75 said:


> And if you were to re-read my post, you would see that what I was saying is that a loving husband wouldn't act like a spoiled brat, saying "if I don't get a BJ, we're not having any sex." And if you noticed, I also said that some women can't get past that gag reflex, even after trying multiple times. Still, the "loving husband" sulks, complaining that she's not giving BJs. Yes, I get that many (not necessarily ALL) men hope that their wives will give them oral, even to completions. But when he starts sulking, after she has told him why she can't handle it, then he becomes an entitled ass. Sorry, I wouldn't blow someone like that... even if my gag reflex was fine. I very rarely, and I mean VERY RARELY give my husband a BJ. I am one whose gag reflex starts as soon as it goes into my mouth. Add to that, I cannot get down there very easily. We both have health problems that make it very difficult most of the time. My problems have been there from before we married, so BJs have been rare from the start. When I was pregnant, there were non-existent. I'd say the last time I gave him one was over a year ago. My loving husband understands my limitations, and accepts them. I, his loving wife, understand HIS limitations, and accept them.
> 
> So, yes, over20, I DID read your post. I read it multiple times as I was replying the last time. You say a very loving and knowldgeable wife will seek to fulfill her husband's deepest sexual needs? I'd have to say we have no idea how loving and knowldgeable a wife is, whether she gives BJs or not.


It's just an excuse. I have a super sensitive gag reflex and an irrational fear of vomiting. However, my fiance is, obviously into bj's, and he would ask every now and then, but would rarely get one. I have ehlers danlos syndrom, meaning it hurt me to hold myself up on my wrist or hold my jaw open for a long time. I figured "hell, that's enough vaid reasons to not give him a bj" and I would use those excuses damn near every time.

Here's something I learned. Men don't require much to be happy. If a man is happy, he tends to help out and appreciate more than if h is unhappy. Bj's make my man happy. Happy man = happy me. If I have to do this once a week, I will. I bought some deep throat spray and, holy crap, it helps. We turn some porn on the tv and it makes him be able to come faster so I'm not holding my jaw open for 10 minutes. We figured it out.

Figure it out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Fiance.

Talk to us in 5 years and I bet you will no longer jump through those hoops for him.

You will find that you "having" to do those once a week will become a problem because he doesn't want you to feel you have to do it. He will want you to wnt to do it, to initiate, to desire him like crazy rather than do it because you get something from it, some transaction.

Past that, what you believe you get from it - a guy who will marry you - is a value judgment on your part. Other people value other things. If their physical discomfort level is such that doing whatever, BJ, anal, is too high who the hell are you to say it is an excuse? When he is your husband I will consider your comments differently. But right now he isn't yours. What women do before they are married isn't always the same as what they will do after.

Deep throat spray. Great.

Porn so he gets it over quickly. Great.

You are faking it. You don't like it. You have a lot of nerve to judge someone who not only doesnt like it but isn't afraid to say so. Tell your daughter this some day.

A lot of women like going down on their husbands. They LIKE it. And here you are so damned superior.


----------



## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

Theseus said:


> LOL,
> 
> 
> "Oral sex is such a small thing. It's something your partner should WANT to give to you. Even if it's only for your benefit. If she doesn't, then there's something wrong. Possibly with you, possibly with her. If she used the excuse about your hygiene yet continues to refuse after you fixed that, then obviously there's another reason and she's either too embarrassed to bring it up, or she's simply not attracted to you anymore."
> ...


----------



## Escaflowne (Jan 27, 2014)

clipclop2 said:


> Fiance.
> 
> Talk to us in 5 years and I bet you will no longer jump through those hoops for him.
> 
> ...


Actually, a lot of women don't, but they wouldn't tell their men that. I've never met a single woma in my life that genuinely got turned on when she thought of a big, hard rod of skin going down her throat. 

Read the comment below your last one. That is exacty spot on.

My fiance will make the bed - not because he loves doing it or even wants to, but because it makes me happy. 

Just an example. It's not about me "faking it" it's about me doing something for my fiance that he enjoys, solely because it makes him happy and if he's happy, it makes my life easier. It's real easy to come up with a list of excuses not to do something....trust me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Escaflowne (Jan 27, 2014)

clipclop2 said:


> Fiance.
> 
> Talk to us in 5 years and I bet you will no longer jump through those hoops for him.
> 
> ...


By the way, I never felt that I "had" to do anything. I never felt obligated and never jumped through hoops. 

This is leading me to think you are not understanding my post. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Escaflowne said:


> Actually, a lot of women don't, but they wouldn't tell their men that. I've never met a single woma in my life that genuinely got turned on when she thought of a big, hard rod of skin going down her throat.
> 
> Read the comment below your last one. That is exacty spot on.
> 
> ...


so it makes him happy that you blow him even though you're using a throat spray and porn to get through it?


----------



## Escaflowne (Jan 27, 2014)

ScarletBegonias said:


> so it makes him happy that you blow him even though you're using a throat spray and porn to get through it?


Dude, look, we've spent the past 6 years trying to find ways to make it work. It's not my favorite thing in the world to do, but there's a ton of thinggs I ask of him hat aren't his favorite either. It's about making that sacrifice for one another. I cannot believe how much I'm having to explain this. If you are constantly coming up with reasons you cannot please your man, it's just going to lead to resentment in the future.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Escaflowne said:


> Dude, look, we've spent the past 6 years trying to find ways to make it work. It's not my favorite thing in the world to do, but there's a ton of thinggs I ask of him hat aren't his favorite either. It's about making that sacrifice for one another. I cannot believe how much I'm having to explain this. If you are constantly coming up with reasons you cannot please your man, it's just going to lead to resentment in the future.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


hmm first,not a dude. Second,chill out. Third,I understand sacrifice for your mate. I'm not asking you about YOUR end of it. I'm asking how HE feels about receiving head even though his partner has to use throat spray and porn just to get through it. 

I'm asking bc even though I thoroughly enjoy feeling my husband's hard c**k in my mouth,seriously it's awesome, I can't imagine he'd even let me attempt a bj if I was gagging so badly I had to resort to throat spray and porn to get it over with. He wouldn't ever want me to go through that no matter how willing I was to make that sacrifice. It makes me question a man who is ok with having his wife go to that extreme just for some head.


----------



## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> so it makes him happy that you blow him even though you're using a throat spray and porn to get through it?


SB, you make that sound so negative. :rofl:


----------



## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

T&T said:


> SB, you make that sound so negative. :rofl:


----------



## Escaflowne (Jan 27, 2014)

ScarletBegonias said:


> hmm first,not a dude. Second,chill out. Third,I understand sacrifice for your mate. I'm not asking you about YOUR end of it. I'm asking how HE feels about receiving head even though his partner has to use throat spray and porn just to get through it.
> 
> I'm asking bc even though I thoroughly enjoy feeling my husband's hard c**k in my mouth,seriously it's awesome, I can't imagine he'd even let me attempt a bj if I was gagging so badly I had to resort to throat spray and porn to get it over with. He wouldn't ever want me to go through that no matter how willing I was to make that sacrifice. It makes me question a man who is ok with having his wife go to that extreme just for some head.


So, because he doesn't like doing dishes, but does them once in awhile anyway for me, I should put a stop to that because what kind of woman would let her man do something that isn't his favorite?

I never used the phrase "get it over with" but, for some reason, you keep doing it. Why?

I have a sensitive gag reflex and a joint condition so, because of this, I should never even get the chance to figure out ways I could give a blowjob and maybe, in the future, enjoy it? I should just never do it because it didn't start out as my favorite thing? Do you realize he is my first and only blowjob? Do you realize sometimes he has a hard time coming, so porn helps him as well? 

I can't believe I'm defending this!


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Escaflowne said:


> So, because he doesn't like doing dishes, but does them once in awhile anyway for me, I should put a stop to that because what kind of woman would let her man do something that isn't his favorite?
> 
> I never used the phrase "get it over with" but, for some reason, you keep doing it. Why?
> 
> ...


Please try and understand that many of us here, especially the ones who have been around a while have seen many very similar situations to your, and so the comments are drawing from numerous cases. Your situation, while different in some of the details is very familiar, and frankly, not all that special.

That said, it is very encouraging that you don't seem to be separating the different parts needed for a marriage to work, and placing sex in it's own category. That is where many people fail in my opinion. They think of sex as something separate, alone, special. That leads to it being treated differently than other things, when it is just as important, if not more important than other aspects. This also leads to it becoming, or being transactional in nature.

I know you are saying it would never happen, that you will always continue to try and give bj, and that is an admirable sentiment, but case after case here has shown that most of the time, some sort of resentment starts to build in the sexual or non sexual aspects, and the attitude of giving to make your partner happy starts to slide. When that happens, sex and denial tend to become a weapon, a means of manipulation, of hurt.


----------



## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

Dude, Get over it

Mrs Wysh does it but very rarely.

It sounds tacky I suppose but part of her reasoning is she likes the feeling of my c0ck in her vag.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Escaflowne said:


> So, because he doesn't like doing dishes, but does them once in awhile anyway for me, I should put a stop to that because what kind of woman would let her man do something that isn't his favorite?
> 
> I never used the phrase "get it over with" but, for some reason, you keep doing it. Why?
> 
> ...


I think any attempt at trying is good enough. Most women will not be "sword swallowers" so I wouldn't worry about deepthroat.


----------



## Escaflowne (Jan 27, 2014)

samyeagar said:


> Please try and understand that many of us here, especially the ones who have been around a while have seen many very similar situations to your, and so the comments are drawing from numerous cases. Your situation, while different in some of the details is very familiar, and frankly, not all that special.
> 
> That said, it is very encouraging that you don't seem to be separating the different parts needed for a marriage to work, and placing sex in it's own category. That is where many people fail in my opinion. They think of sex as something separate, alone, special. That leads to it being treated differently than other things, when it is just as important, if not more important than other aspects. This also leads to it becoming, or being transactional in nature.
> 
> I know you are saying it would never happen, that you will always continue to try and give bj, and that is an admirable sentiment, but case after case here has shown that most of the time, some sort of resentment starts to build in the sexual or non sexual aspects, and the attitude of giving to make your partner happy starts to slide. When that happens, sex and denial tend to become a weapon, a means of manipulation, of hurt.


The message I'm getting is that no matter what skill, experience or pleasure level, I have to love big, hard c0ck in my mouth or don't even bother doing it. Don't ever try. Don't ever "take one for the team". In fact, my fiance is a bad person if he even gets, let alone enjoys, one from someone who isn't the lead from a homemade porn. 

You say the word "resentment" and direct it toward me and my feelings toward him. But up until this year, I feel it was the other way around. There are so many women that make excuses and conjur up reasons why they can't give a bj. You're saying that's ok? I don't think it is. I believe both party's should try. That's not trying. That's trying not to try. That's lame.

I mean, this thread is about a frustrated husband. "My wife does not give bj's at all." A man pretending to be ok with his wife not trying...and we all know he's pretending...can't lead to anything good.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Escaflowne said:


> The message I'm getting is that no matter what skill, experience or pleasure level, I have to love big, hard c0ck in my mouth or don't even bother doing it. Don't ever try. Don't ever "take one for the team". In fact, my fiance is a bad person if he even gets, let alone enjoys, one from someone who isn't the lead from a homemade porn.
> 
> You say the word "resentment" and direct it toward me and my feelings toward him. But up until this year, I feel it was the other way around. There are so many women that make excuses and conjur up reasons why they can't give a bj. You're saying that's ok? I don't think it is. I believe both party's should try. That's not trying. That's trying not to try. That's lame.
> 
> ...


Right! Try, you don't have to be the best at it and it doesn't have to be your favorite thing to do!


----------



## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Escaflowne said:


> So, because he doesn't like doing dishes, but does them once in awhile anyway for me, I should put a stop to that because what kind of woman would let her man do something that isn't his favorite?
> 
> I never used the phrase "get it over with" but, for some reason, you keep doing it. Why?
> 
> ...


Doing dishes doesn't cause him physical discomfort. You're trying to make a comparison where one can't be made. 

I'm not sure why you're so darn defensive about this. Like I said,I am not questioning your decision to make these sacrifices for your man. I think more women and men could stand to make some sacrifices for their partner. 

Why do I need to realize he's your first and only bj? What does that have to do with my question? 

I'm just questioning how the man gets turned on when you give him head knowing it causes physical discomfort for you. It seems a little off to me,that's all. Not on your end but on his. 

You don't have to explain your choice to me or anyone else. No one is being critical of your choice. I used "get it over with" because that's how it sounds to me when you say you use porn to make him end faster. 

ETA: Also, I'm not a person who says don't give head if you don't enjoy giving it. I didn't enjoy doing it for my ex but did it anyway bc he loved it and pleasing him made me happy. However,I highly doubt he'd even be the type of man who would want to receive if he knew it caused physical discomfort to me. That's like the dude that wants anal even though he knows it causes his wife pain and discomfort. I wonder why he wants it knowing his partner is cringing in discomfort about it and just doing it to make him happy.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Escaflowne said:


> The message I'm getting is that no matter what skill, experience or pleasure level, I have to love big, hard c0ck in my mouth or don't even bother doing it. Don't ever try. Don't ever "take one for the team". In fact, my fiance is a bad person if he even gets, let alone enjoys, one from someone who isn't the lead from a homemade porn.
> 
> *You say the word "resentment" and direct it toward me and my feelings toward him*. But up until this year, I feel it was the other way around. There are so many women that make excuses and conjur up reasons why they can't give a bj. You're saying that's ok? I don't think it is. I believe both party's should try. That's not trying. That's trying not to try. That's lame.
> 
> ...


I should have been more clear. I am talking about down the road in the future.


----------



## Escaflowne (Jan 27, 2014)

ScarletBegonias said:


> Doing dishes doesn't cause him physical discomfort. You're trying to make a comparison where one can't be made.
> 
> I'm not sure why you're so darn defensive about this. Like I said,I am not questioning your decision to make these sacrifices for your man. I think more women and men could stand to make some sacrifices for their partner.
> 
> ...


He didn't make me do anything. So, if anything is "off" it would be on my end.

They did cause me physical discomfort, but that's where we figured out spray and porn in the bg...now it doesn't. And I was being criticized for using those 2 things.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Escaflowne (Jan 27, 2014)

samyeagar said:


> I should have been more clear. I am talking about down the road in the future.


I'm going to possibly resent him for a choice that I am continually making?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Escaflowne said:


> I'm going to possibly resent him for a choice that I am continually making?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Happens all the time...


----------



## Escaflowne (Jan 27, 2014)

samyeagar said:


> Happens all the time...


 That seems really immature. I guess we'll see, huh?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Escaflowne said:


> I'm going to possibly resent him for a choice that I am continually making?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


At this point in time do you "want" to do it, for him? If you know you "want" to do it, and as long as he is considerate of you and takes care of most of your needs you will likely not resent him.

However if you get angry at him or he's not meeting your needs and it's all about him, you will resent him.


----------



## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Escaflowne said:


> He didn't make me do anything. So, if anything is "off" it would be on my end.


You're still missing what I'm saying here and making it about your choice to give when I'm asking about his choice to receive knowing the circumstances surrounding his choice. 



Escaflowne said:


> They did cause me physical discomfort, but that's where we figured out spray and porn in the bg...now it doesn't. And I was being criticized for using those 2 things.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not by me you weren't and I'm sorry if I came off that way.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Escaflowne said:


> Dude, look, we've spent the past 6 years trying to find ways to make it work. It's not my favorite thing in the world to do, but there's a ton of thinggs I ask of him hat aren't his favorite either. It's about making that sacrifice for one another. I cannot believe how much I'm having to explain this. If you are constantly coming up with reasons you cannot please your man, it's just going to lead to resentment in the future.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Do you have disagreements, unresolved conflict? Do you discuss your negative feelings with him in an attempt to reach a compromise where you are both comfortable? Sometimes woman who have the "please your man" attitude have the man on a pedestal early in the relationship. The woman avoids conflict to keep him up there. 

The team approach to LTR may be more resilient than one person feeling that they need to place their partner on a pedestal. Adult relationships are exchanges of satisfactions. If one person is satisfied and the other is not, there is a point at which the dissatisfied person breaks down. They reach a tipping point where there is so much unresolved resentment that lose the desire to please.

The satisfied person has no clue and is suppressed by the sudden nature of the changes. Their unhappy partner never articulated the extent of their unhappiness. WAW, WAH are prime examples.


----------



## Escaflowne (Jan 27, 2014)

Catherine602 said:


> Do you have disagreements, unresolved conflict? Do you discuss your negative feelings with him in an attempt to reach a compromise where you are both comfortable? Sometimes woman who have the "please your man" attitude have the man on a pedestal early in the relationship. The woman avoids conflict to keep him up there.
> 
> The team approach to LTR may be more resilient than one person feeling that they need to place their partner on a pedestal. Adult relationships are exchanges of satisfactions. If one person is satisfied and the other is not, there is a point at which the dissatisfied person breaks down. They reach a tipping point where there is so much unresolved resentment that lose the desire to please.
> 
> The satisfied person has no clue and is suppressed by the sudden nature of the changes. Their unhappy partner never articulated the extent of their unhappiness. WAW, WAH are prime examples.


We've been together for almost 7 years, and I spent so much time coming up with excuses, instead of trying to find ways to make it work - up until this year. Sort of a resolution. I do not put him on a pedestal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Escaflowne (Jan 27, 2014)

ScarletBegonias said:


> You're still missing what I'm saying here and making it about your choice to give when I'm asking about his choice to receive knowing the circumstances surrounding his choice.
> 
> 
> 
> Not by me you weren't and I'm sorry if I came off that way.


I would think i'd be more offended if I initiated and he turned me down, honestly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Escaflowne (Jan 27, 2014)

treyvion said:


> At this point in time do you "want" to do it, for him? If you know you "want" to do it, and as long as he is considerate of you and takes care of most of your needs you will likely not resent him.
> 
> However if you get angry at him or he's not meeting your needs and it's all about him, you will resent him.


I do want to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

ScarletBegonias said:


> You're still missing what I'm saying here and making it about your choice to give when I'm asking about his choice to receive knowing the circumstances surrounding his choice.
> 
> 
> 
> Not by me you weren't and I'm sorry if I came off that way.


I often wonder why a loving person could accept a sex act that brings them pleasure but is so difficult for their partner to perform. How can they have an orgasm under those circumstances. That would have to have some impact on the feelings of the giver.


----------



## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Escaflowne said:


> I would think i'd be more offended if I initiated and he turned me down, honestly.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I see what you're saying. But again,that's about your feelings...which are very selfless and giving. I think Catherine's post really communicates how I'm seeing the situation. 

FWIW,I think it's great that you try so hard.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> I often wonder why a loving person could accept a sex act that brings them pleasure but is so difficult for their partner to perform. How can they have an orgasm under those circumstances. That would have to have some impact on the feelings of the giver.


She wants to do it.... In most of our situations, it's not a big deal other than they don't want to do something they don't "like" doing and you can't make them.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

treyvion said:


> She wants to do it.... In most of our situations, it's not a big deal other than they don't want to do something they don't "like" doing and you can't make them.


IMO, it's not the act, it's the dynamic that many women don't like. It is a big deal. If its something that someone you love does not like, it important. It should be of concern. 

A bj should never be a stand alone act. It should be part of a mutually satisfying sexual experience. There is no reason why oral sex cannot be performed on the woman first and then she give a bj. Everybody is satisfied, no one is left hanging or feeling used. 

I've said this many times in threads but I rarely get a comment about it. There is a fixed belief that men are entitled to being compensated for commitment to his wife and children. His sacrifice for his family is worth far more than his wife's. One way she can show her appreciation for this monumental sacrifice is to give him bj's. Women don't feel that way. 

They may not say it verbally but behaviorally. The disinterest and discomfort of the woman he claims to love and care about, is not material if it's a required gift. 

Why not just make it part of a loving sexual experience that requires satisfaction of both partners? That's more realistic and in keeping with how relationships work for adults. There is no unconditional giving in adult relationships, there is always a cost. The cost is what the giver thinks it's worth, not the receiver.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> IMO, it's not the act, it's the dynamic that many women don't like. It is a big deal. If its something that someone you love does not like, it important. It should be of concern.
> 
> A bj should never be a stand alone act. It should be part of a mutually satisfying sexual experience. There is no reason why oral sex cannot be performed on the woman first and then she give a bj. Everybody is satisfied, no one is left hanging or feeling used.
> 
> ...


Some of us were eating p*ssy like a fat man loves cakes and the wife could not be inconvenced even for several minutes, "trying" to please the husband in the same manner.

I know I can't expect them to do this, but the ones i deal with, I think that's something that would be on my list of things they would probably like to do.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Escaflowne said:


> We've been together for almost 7 years, and I spent so much time coming up with excuses, instead of trying to find ways to make it work - up until this year. Sort of a resolution. I do not put him on a pedestal.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why aren't you married? Who does not want to make the legal commitment? The man you have been pleasing for 7 yrs or you? 

When you close the deal, buy a house, pay for a car and have a couple of kids, come back and talk about pleasing your man.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

treyvion said:


> Some of us were eating p*ssy like a fat man loves cakes and the wife could not be inconvenced even for several minutes, "trying" to please the husband in the same manner.
> 
> I know I can't expect them to do this, but the ones i deal with, I think that's something that would be on my list of things they would probably like to do.


But you avoided addressing the issue in the context of my post. Let me ask again - when you want a bj, do you want it as a stand alone act? Do you ask, do you ask when she is not aroused? 

Why can't your partner give you a bj after you finish munching on her? Make it an oral sex session the first time around. Why can't that happen? 

Giving her an orgasm and then getting one yourself seems fair. Giving her oral sex and she giving you oral sex seems fair too. So why does it not happen.


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Dang. I am alone in loving going down on my husband... On a man.


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

*Re: Re: Wife does not give BJ's at all*



Escaflowne said:


> By the way, I never felt that I "had" to do anything. I never felt obligated and never jumped through hoops.
> 
> This is leading me to think you are not understanding my post.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You stated clearly why you do it. None of it was because it made you totally wet.


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Why does anyone think that one act is equivalent to another?

Trey, would you take it up the ass if your wife wanted you to? Yes or no.

Answer.


----------



## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

Gosh! I'm surprised at the to'ing and fro'ing here!

In life sometimes we have to do things we don't like doing, but we do it out of a sense of responsibility, duty and love.

When my Grandma (the only one I had) was still around I used to visit her for tea once a week for an hour. Sure it was great seeing her but sometimes it was a pain. But she used to live from one visit to to the next.
So no matter what, (unless we were away), I would visit her. 

My wife couldn't understand it - she has no sense of 'duty'.

I am not saying that giving your husband a BJ is your 'duty' but what I am saying is that if you are with someone and love them you will (if you are 'normal') do things FOR THEM that you might not like doing because you love them and you do it because you know they enjoy it.

But there are people in this world (my wife being one of them) who will refuse to do something for someone else even if it brings them great pleasure simply because they don't like doing it.

'Why should I do something I don't like or am not interested in doing?'....'Because it gives the other person great pleasure'....'I am NOT going to do something I don't want to or like doing. Thats it'.

Its called being selfish.


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

You are exactly saying it is your duty.


----------



## Escaflowne (Jan 27, 2014)

Catherine602 said:


> Why aren't you married? Who does not want to make the legal commitment? The man you have been pleasing for 7 yrs or you?
> 
> When you close the deal, buy a house, pay for a car and have a couple of kids, come back and talk about pleasing your man.


We are getting married in 3 months, have a son and about $50,000 in student loans from a sh*t, rip-off school.
Buying a house and a car probably won't happen anytime soon.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

clipclop2 said:


> Why does anyone think that one act is equivalent to another?
> 
> Trey, would you take it up the ass if your wife wanted you to? Yes or no.
> 
> Answer.


Possibly a finger. I have no desire to be penetrated anally.

IF I decided it was important enough to me to be able to penetrate her anally but she said the condition is she must be able to penetrate me anally, I might consider it. The strapon or whatever would have to be smaller than my size, and I probably would limit it to a finger for prostate massage while i'm recieving oral. 

Outside of some deal like this, there is no way in h3ll.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Escaflowne said:


> We are getting married in 3 months, have a son and about $50,000 in student loans from a sh*t, rip-off school.
> Buying a house and a car probably won't happen anytime soon.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You seem like one of the more tender and loving wives on here. God bless you.


----------



## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

askari said:


> Gosh! I'm surprised at the to'ing and fro'ing here!
> 
> In life sometimes we have to do things we don't like doing, but we do it out of a sense of responsibility, duty and love.
> 
> ...


Very well stated.


----------



## TopsyTurvy5 (Nov 16, 2013)

clipclop2 said:


> You are exactly saying it is your duty.


Are there things in a marriage you would consider a duty? I mean anything, not just sexual.


----------



## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

clipclop2 said:


> You are exactly saying it is your duty.


Good lord, simmer down. A giving spouse seeks to meet their spouses wants and needs.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

treyvion said:


> Possibly a finger. I have no desire to be penetrated anally.
> 
> IF I decided it was important enough to me to be able to penetrate her anally but she said the condition is she must be able to penetrate me anally, I might consider it. The strapon or whatever would have to be smaller than my size, and I probably would limit it to a finger for prostate massage while i'm recieving oral.
> 
> Outside of some deal like this, there is no way in h3ll.


Pegging is not an inelegant attempt at a prostrate massage or a wasted opportunity for a bj. It's an act of a mans surrender to his partner and an acceptance of her sexual expression .... including her strap-on.


----------



## kilgore (Dec 14, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> Pegging is not an inelegant attempt at a prostrate massage or a wasted opportunity for a bj. It's an act of a mans surrender to his partner and an acceptance of her sexual expression .... including her strap-on.


hmm...interestingly put.

i don't think i could be as picky as trevyion - i don't think there is a strap on smaller than my size


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

kilgore said:


> hmm...interestingly put.
> 
> i don't think i could be as picky as trevyion - i don't think there is a strap on smaller than my size


I'm kidding Kil. Couldn't resist supporting a woman and her dead penis umm I mean strap-on.


----------



## kilgore (Dec 14, 2012)

haha

i wasn't ;(


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

:lol::lol::lol:


----------



## kilgore (Dec 14, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> :lol::lol::lol:


ouch.


----------



## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

Hmm


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

kilgore said:


> ouch.


Sorry :rofl:


----------



## kilgore (Dec 14, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> Sorry :rofl:


if a man can't laugh at his penis, what can he laugh at?


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

I give up.

Certain men believe they are due BJs simply because they got married.

I think entitled guys like this should spell it out in a prenup. And I hope the woman adds the pegging clause.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Will someone please explain to me again why someone would willingly MARRY someone as a "life partner" who never went down on them/has always had an aversion to BJs ever since they met/hasn't ever been into BJ's... if said person actually wanted BJs? 

MARRIED THEM.

Because I don't get it at all.


----------



## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

I don't get how this thread is still going when the OP hasn't been back in 3 weeks.


----------



## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

pidge70 said:


> I don't get how this thread is still going when the OP hasn't been back in 3 weeks.



I agree a hundred percent.

There again, the OP came in here and made the statement that he had certain expectations and looking for suggestions. In turn he was met with resistance by a few very vocal posters. He had it coming to him. He was either scared away or a one time wonder.


Make no mistake, I could honestly give 2 sh!ts about a BJ myself, but I can certainly promise you that if my wife ever said some the words that were posted on a few of these page, I would quickly tell her to take a flying leap. 

And for the record, his description of the fulfilling (end sarcasm) sex life he's getting sounds an awful lot like duty sex to me.

Duty sex is not only a NO, but a HELL NO! I won't say it has not happened, but it didn't take many times to tell the wife if she pulls that crap, I would pull out, wipe off, and go do something more productive. Not only is it insulting, it's degrading.

If more men would straight refuse duty sex, the world would be a better place.


----------



## TopsyTurvy5 (Nov 16, 2013)

Windwalker said:


> *If more men would straight refuse duty sex, the world would be a better place.*


Absolutely agree. Unfortunately there are many men out there who are happy just having sex with a breathing human.


----------



## kilgore (Dec 14, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> Sorry :rofl:


oh, please, lol


----------

