# SHOULD I STOP IT OR LET IT HAPPEN?



## New Dawn! (Nov 21, 2020)

Okay. Married for 30 years. We live civilly. No toxic arguments, name calling nor verbal disrespect. My husband is a serial cheater. I confirmed that last December. Over the years I have discovered a couple of affairs and suspected others. Last December I confirmed that he is still at it. I went and saw a divorce lawyer. He does not want a divorce. He wants to change his behaviour. Says that he loves me and wants to be with me till death. He has been watching videos and reading stuff stuff but no scheduled and serious therapy. Does not feel that it would help.

Outside of cheating you could not ask for a better husband. Affectionate (although I haven't allowed him to touch me in about 3 years), supportive, a good protector and provider, easy to get along with, very technically skilled, looks after house and home and makes sure that he is there for me in every situation.

He does have some narcissistic traits, obviously, but by and large he is opposite of most of the traits of narcissism. 

He has made some changes which he says that he hopes I can see and claims that with time he hopes to regain my trust. He has been telling me of everywhere that he goes, sending me video etc to make me feel comfortable.

A few weeks ago I discovered that he will be travelling on Sunday to the country where his last affair partner lives. An affair which he was supposed to end months ago. I saw the hotel booking confirmation. Room for two. Well that's the standard booking anyway. I said nothing to him. I was waiting to see if it was going to happen.Well last week he told me that he will be travelling on Sunday, but to a different country, for sports training! He travels due to sporting activity, a few times annually. 

What should I do? Should I ask him for proof of where he is going in the hopes that he would cancel the trip thus helping him to help himself? If he knows that I know and he thinks that I'm upset he would cancel. He is that kind of guy. 

Or should I let him go, make him uncomfortable when he is there with all the 'suspicions' and then confront it when he gets back? He knows that I'm on the brink of divorce. 

It is possible that he may be going to her to break up properly. He is that kind of guy. 
But he may also be going for a week of hot sex. He is also that kind of guy. Your thoughts/suggestions would be much appreciated. Thank you!


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

New Dawn! said:


> Okay. Married for 30 years. We live civilly. No toxic arguments, name calling nor verbal disrespect. My husband is a serial cheater. I confirmed that last December. Over the years I have discovered a couple of affairs and suspected others. Last December I confirmed that he is still at it. I went and saw a divorce lawyer. He does not want a divorce. He wants to change his behaviour. Says that he loves me and wants to be with me till death. He has been watching videos and reading stuff stuff but no scheduled and serious therapy. Does not feel that it would help.
> 
> Outside of cheating you could not ask for a better husband. Affectionate (although I haven't allowed him to touch me in about 3 years), supportive, a good protector and provider, easy to get along with, very technically skilled, looks after house and home and makes sure that he is there for me in every situation.
> 
> ...


What should you do? You should divorce him. Who cares if he doesn't want a divorce? OF COURSE he doesn't want one! Right now he can have his cake and eat it too, and he thinks he has you fooled.

I don't think he is trying to change and better himself. If he was he'd be doing the hard work, not just the easy stuff. It's so damn easy to take a picture or send a video of your whereabouts. It's hard to actually do the work and change, and that won't happen by putting on a YouTube video. He doesn't want to do therapy because he doesn't actually want to change. Simple as that.

You have proof that he is lying. He booked a trip to the country of his AP, and lied about it. That's all you need to know. Do not fool yourself and hope he's just "going to apologize". Even if that were true (which it's not), it's not acceptable at all. Who flies to another country to apologize to someone, and stays for a week? Nope, he needs to go no-contact with her and care more about YOUR feelings than hers. But let's be honest, he's not going to apologize. He's going to get laid and they are obviously still communicating somehow.

He isn't remorseful in the slightest. He's just sorry he got caught.

Let him go on his little trip. While he's gone, start getting your ducks in a row. He can come home to divorce papers waiting for him.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Why is he travelling to that country?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Well, he’s been doing it for 30 years. Why NOW, do you want to divorce? Just asking.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

New Dawn! said:


> ...although I haven't allowed him to touch me in about 3 years


That’s a long time. If you don’t have a sexual relationship with him and you have no plans on having one, why do you care if he gets it somewhere else?


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

You should divorce either way. He's not worthy. He'll never be worthy.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

You can call the hotel and ask to be put through to his room. Then tell him that you hope he is enjoying himself and the divorce papers will be ready on his return. Then hang up and go no contact.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

ccpowerslave said:


> That’s a long time. If you don’t have a sexual relationship with him and you have no plans on having one, why do you care if he gets it somewhere else?


Three years is an extremely long time without sexual intimacy. 
I can understand your resentment towards him and not wanting to have sex with him, but 3 years without sex (even if his behavior caused the problem) will pretty much ensure he’s going to get it somewhere else.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Serials don’t change — ever.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

New Dawn! said:


> What should I do?


Stop being a doormat and kick his ass to the curb. Seriously, when is enough, enough??


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## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

New Dawn! said:


> Okay. Married for 30 years. We live civilly. No toxic arguments, name calling nor verbal disrespect. My husband is a serial cheater. I confirmed that last December. Over the years I have discovered a couple of affairs and suspected others. Last December I confirmed that he is still at it. I went and saw a divorce lawyer. He does not want a divorce. He wants to change his behaviour. Says that he loves me and wants to be with me till death. He has been watching videos and reading stuff stuff but no scheduled and serious therapy. Does not feel that it would help.
> 
> Outside of cheating you could not ask for a better husband. Affectionate (although I haven't allowed him to touch me in about 3 years), supportive, a good protector and provider, easy to get along with, very technically skilled, looks after house and home and makes sure that he is there for me in every situation.
> 
> ...


Well, it is way too late for this but.....you should never stay with a cheater so in my opinion you've already screwed up. You are reaping the fruit of your decision. All of this worry, stress, angst, playing detective. Always worried. I'd say this be blunt. He cheated, you no longer trust him because of his lies and betrayal. He should cancel it or let you go too or do something to verify what he's doing. Him not going should be his penalty for cheating. If you aren't ok with it then he shouldn't go. He cheated....lied therefor it isn't on you to TRUST he can go to her country and not have an affair again.


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## CupCake522 (Mar 24, 2013)

New Dawn! said:


> Okay. Married for 30 years. We live civilly. No toxic arguments, name calling nor verbal disrespect. My husband is a serial cheater. I confirmed that last December. Over the years I have discovered a couple of affairs and suspected others. Last December I confirmed that he is still at it. I went and saw a divorce lawyer. He does not want a divorce. He wants to change his behaviour. Says that he loves me and wants to be with me till death. He has been watching videos and reading stuff stuff but no scheduled and serious therapy. Does not feel that it would help.
> 
> Outside of cheating you could not ask for a better husband. Affectionate (although I haven't allowed him to touch me in about 3 years), supportive, a good protector and provider, easy to get along with, very technically skilled, looks after house and home and makes sure that he is there for me in every situation.
> 
> ...


You need to divorce him he has shown you his true self either accept that and move on or accept that he is showing you your not worthy to be faithful to .


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

New Dawn! said:


> Okay. Married for 30 years. We live civilly. No toxic arguments, name calling nor verbal disrespect. My husband is a serial cheater. I confirmed that last December. Over the years I have discovered a couple of affairs and suspected others. Last December I confirmed that he is still at it. I went and saw a divorce lawyer. He does not want a divorce. He wants to change his behaviour. Says that he loves me and wants to be with me till death. He has been watching videos and reading stuff stuff but no scheduled and serious therapy. Does not feel that it would help.
> 
> Outside of cheating you could not ask for a better husband. Affectionate (although I haven't allowed him to touch me in about 3 years), supportive, a good protector and provider, easy to get along with, very technically skilled, looks after house and home and makes sure that he is there for me in every situation.
> 
> ...


He's a serial cheater and you haven't allowed him to touch you in 3 years. Do you think that is a good strategy to keep him from cheating? If you aren't going to allow him to touch you then why not just allow him to find sex elsewhere? You don't seem to be interested and you have already come to the conclusion that he is a serial cheater. His cheating is completely wrong, but you are also breaking the marriage contract by cutting off sex or any intimate contact for 3 years. Your marriage is completely broken from both ends. 

You should either let him go and take care of his sexual urges without bothering him about it or you should start divorce process now.


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## CupCake522 (Mar 24, 2013)

BigDaddyNY said:


> He's a serial cheater and you haven't allowed him to touch you in 3 years. Do you think that is a good strategy to keep him from cheating? If you aren't going to allow him to touch you then why not just allow him to find sex elsewhere? You don't seem to be interested and you have already come to the conclusion that he is a serial cheater. His cheating is completely wrong, but you are also breaking the marriage contract by cutting off sex or any intimate contact for 3 years. Your marriage is completely broken from both ends.
> 
> You should either let him go and take care of his sexual urges without bothering him about it or you should start divorce process now.


I totally agree with your statement.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ccpowerslave said:


> That’s a long time. If you don’t have a sexual relationship with him and you have no plans on having one, why do you care if he gets it somewhere else?


Maybe because he is a serial cheat and she doesn't want to catch an STD?


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## BlueWoman (Jan 8, 2015)

DudeInProgress said:


> Three years is an extremely long time without sexual intimacy.
> I can understand your resentment towards him and not wanting to have sex with him, but 3 years without sex (even if his behavior caused the problem) will pretty much ensure he’s going to get it somewhere else.


This would be something to note, if he in fact had gone that long without sex. He hasn’t, as she confirmed in December that he was still cheating on her. 

Short of divorcing him, not having sex with a serial cheater just makes good sense. 

OP, honestly I think you should just let it happen and move on with the divorce proceedings, with no guilt. You are denying yourself the opportunity to have a emotionally and sexually satisfying life with someone else. Staying with him is just punishing yourself, while he continues to have everything he wants: A loving wife at home and plenty of sex with other women.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Words are easy, if he was really repentant, which he isn't, he would be swanning about away from you.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Let him go, let him know you know where he is while there with a simple "I know where you are" text. Go silent and non-responsive to him. Have D papers ready to serve him upon return.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> Maybe because he is a serial cheat and she doesn't want to catch an STD?


If that is the case, why stay married?


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

I don't understand what is he bring to the relationship that makes you stay so long , 
like talking about bending down and asking for a kick in the ass ,


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

New Dawn! said:


> Affectionate (although I haven't allowed him to touch me in about 3 years),


If you're willing to now live without sex for three years without climbing the walls, I suspect you doled out puzzy sparingly long before that. If that's the case, he needs you to divorce him. If you love him at all, beyond for his technical skills in property maintenance, cut the old boy loose. It will be a blessing for both of you.


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## New Dawn! (Nov 21, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> He's a serial cheater and you haven't allowed him to touch you in 3 years. Do you think that is a good strategy to keep him from cheating? If you aren't going to allow him to touch you then why not just allow him to find sex elsewhere? You don't seem to be interested and you have already come to the conclusion that he is a serial cheater. His cheating is completely wrong, but you are also breaking the marriage contract by cutting off sex or any intimate contact for 3 years. Your marriage is completely broken from both ends.
> 
> You should either let him go and take care of his sexual urges without bothering him about it or you should start divorce process now.


Thanks for your comments everyone. I really appreciate it. I could not give the entire story in my initial post because it would have made it too long. 

Here is the other shameful side of the story. It is so crazy and embarrassing that I have not been able to communicate it anywhere and to any one until now. Here it comes.

My husband has Erectile Dysfunction (ED). We discovered this 10 years ago while he was having an affair. The commonly prescribed drugs did not work. He had issues maintaining the sexual side of things with that AP although she was very physically attractive. I don't think she knew it. He was just absent from her sometimes. Once he ended that affair and we decided to reconcile we attempted to make love about twice and he was not capable. He was very embarrassed and became depressed and withdrawn for a while. I explained to him that for me sex was not the most important thing in a relationship and that I accepted it as an 'illness' and I would continue to be faithful as we rebuilt. Of course it was not easy to accept but I am the committed type. 

So for about 6 years there was no sex and no intimacy besides the morning goodbye kiss. He did not want to fulfil me in other ways because that made him depressed. But I remained faithful. Nothing is wrong with my sex drive. It is quite normal and it had been difficult to deal with my desires at times. But I have never been tempted to cheat. 

In the sixth or seventh year I saw the familiar signs of cheating again and then I discovered that he was using an ED drug. He denied that they were his but I doubted and I was right. That's when I stopped him from even touching my hand or anywhere on me, even casually. I wanted to divorce and I tried to prepare myself for it emotionally but it's been hard. 

Apparently he doesn't mind failing with other women but can't bear it to fail with me. So it's been 10 years since we had sex and three since we we've been touching in any meaningful way. ..mainly by accident. I know it sounds crazy. He says that he does not desire sex. But this is what I know... he has always had high desires for admiration, acceptance and much affection (those are the narcissistic traits). 

He says that he has messed up our marriage and does not know if I would ever be able to clean the slate, forgive him completely and move on in a normal manner. I have explained to him that it is not impossible but it will take time. But he seems to be impatient and doesn't function well without lots of affection.

So I feel that here is why he is probably reaching out to the AP. He probably wants a bridge until he can 'get me back!!'

Not making any excuses for him but here are some facts: He was verbally abused by his father growing up...badly, and for years. His father verbally and physically abused his mother...for years. When his mother died about 25 years ago, I immediately felt him detach from me emotionally somewhat as well...and for years thereafter. His strongest emotional attachment to me since then has been over the past year. Yes he used to be a sexual tiger but I think that his ties to this woman may be more emotional. Of course he wil need to deliver sexually as well, but that may be on the side of things, plus she does not live here so sex would be occasional anyway.. So as you can see, this is not so straightforward at all. 

And for the record our sex life was enjoyable. Frequent sex two to four times a week and more often when on holiday. I got married in my twenties as a virgin. He has been my only love and sexual partner.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

New Dawn! said:


> Yes he used to be a sexual tiger but I think that his ties to this woman may be more emotional.


 in reading all this post I suspect his ED is more physiological 
just me thinking out loud , 

honestly I can't understand why you would take so much from him , 
if it was me I would do a Lorena Bobbitt job on him , 

he even makes a cheater look like a saint , 
it often I am stuck for word s ,


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

New Dawn! said:


> Thanks for your comments everyone. I really appreciate it. I could not give the entire story in my initial post because it would have made it too long.
> 
> Here is the other shameful side of the story. It is so crazy and embarrassing that I have not been able to communicate it anywhere and to any one until now. Here it comes.
> 
> ...


In my opinion your "husband" sounds like a total piece of garbage and you are far too accepting of it. You have been basically helping him with his ED so he can get enough of a boner to use it on another woman.

When he says he doesn't desire sex, he really means he doesn't desire sex with you, ED or not. Get that straight in your head now.

You can never go "clean slate". You say it isn't impossible, but the reality is it is impossible. Short of you doing a memory wipe you will always remember that the rare time he can get an erection he is either looking to use it or has used it on another woman, not you.

And he is using the AP as a "bridge", lol. Come on. Do you hear yourself saying this? So say this out loud, "The other woman's vagina is a bridge for him to use until he can get back with me, his wife. Oh and the sex with her would only be occasional anyway." Now, after saying that can you come right back and say, "I need to reconcile with him and stay married". I am so sorry because you are the victim in this, yet you are treating him like the victim. He honestly isn't worth your time. Also, what you are doing isn't reconciling, you are simply allowing a one sided open marriage. If that is what you want, well that is what you've got.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

After all this time I doubt you will ever leave him so he will never feel the consequences of his serial cheating. He hasn't had to so far. 
You are making lots of excuses for his cheating, lots of people had bad childhoods but dont cheat. 

I suspect he is going off to meet one of his ladies but to be blunt, you haven't done anything about it before and sadly I doubt you will now so does it really even matter that much to you?
What will you do when he cheats again?


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## nypsychnurse (Jan 13, 2019)

Nothing is going to change unless YOU make some changes.
You have 2 choices here:
1. Divorce the cheater and LIVE Your life or
2. Accept the cheater for who he is, and begin LIVING for yourself. 
Either way, NO MORE hoping for change, playing detective, empty threats, Etc.
Life is short...do what you want to do and stop wasting precious energy on this sham of a marriage.


Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


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## Willnotbill (May 13, 2021)

New Dawn! said:


> Okay. Married for 30 years. We live civilly. No toxic arguments, name calling nor verbal disrespect. My husband is a serial cheater. I confirmed that last December. Over the years I have discovered a couple of affairs and suspected others. Last December I confirmed that he is still at it. I went and saw a divorce lawyer. He does not want a divorce. He wants to change his behaviour. Says that he loves me and wants to be with me till death. He has been watching videos and reading stuff stuff but no scheduled and serious therapy. Does not feel that it would help.
> 
> Outside of cheating you could not ask for a better husband. Affectionate (although I haven't allowed him to touch me in about 3 years), supportive, a good protector and provider, easy to get along with, very technically skilled, looks after house and home and makes sure that he is there for me in every situation.
> 
> ...


What would happen if you wanted to go with him? I wouldn't just let him go. If I were in your spot he would have an ultimatum to stay home and work on the marriage or the locks would be changed when he got back. To make a marriage work both people need to be 100% committed to it to make it work. Unfortunately it doesn't sound like your husband is committed to it.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

New Dawn! said:


> Thanks for your comments everyone. I really appreciate it. I could not give the entire story in my initial post because it would have made it too long.
> 
> Here is the other shameful side of the story. It is so crazy and embarrassing that I have not been able to communicate it anywhere and to any one until now. Here it comes.
> 
> ...


I had a bf who wouldn't tell me he had ed but just avoided sex but he "practiced" with other women, instead of failing with me. 

Is this how you want to live your life? If you like your life and don't miss the sex, then whatever you want to do. I mean, I would want to know if he's able to have sex with those other women. I believe he may with some or he'd have given up years ago. So he's cheating, no matter how you slice it. 

It's bothersome he won't do therapy. If he's really trying, he would go with you to try to sort this out and do everything possible to sort it out. I feel he's using you as a beard at this point, to pretend he is successful in all ways. If I were you, I'd ask him straight up, "How many of those women have you been able to get it up for?" They hate talking about ED. He could have an issue from childhood (my bf did) that might get sorted out in therapy, or not.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

New Dawn! said:


> Okay. Married for 30 years. We live civilly. No toxic arguments, name calling nor verbal disrespect. My husband is a serial cheater. I confirmed that last December. Over the years I have discovered a couple of affairs and suspected others. Last December I confirmed that he is still at it. I went and saw a divorce lawyer. He does not want a divorce. He wants to change his behaviour. Says that he loves me and wants to be with me till death. He has been watching videos and reading stuff stuff but no scheduled and serious therapy. Does not feel that it would help.
> 
> Outside of cheating you could not ask for a better husband. Affectionate (although I haven't allowed him to touch me in about 3 years), supportive, a good protector and provider, easy to get along with, very technically skilled, looks after house and home and makes sure that he is there for me in every situation.
> 
> ...





New Dawn! said:


> Thanks for your comments everyone. I really appreciate it. I could not give the entire story in my initial post because it would have made it too long.
> 
> Here is the other shameful side of the story. It is so crazy and embarrassing that I have not been able to communicate it anywhere and to any one until now. Here it comes.
> 
> ...


I'm really sad reading this, b/c this could have been my life exactly... I am sorry you seem to think you must forgive him and have to die living this lie. Honestly, I think you should get therapy to address why you have accepted this treatment and take back your agency.

I did the same thing, including the whole sexless bit, dealing with the excuses for over a decade, but as soon as I found out he screwed someone else after all I sacrificed, that made me MAD. You don't sound angry at all. Are you dependent on him financially? 

Btw, I've lived in and traveled back and forth to your country for decades, and you and I well know Caribbean culture is more tolerant, even accepting of cheating and entire extra families. However, you don't have to accept that crap if you don't want to, social embarrassment or not.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

I trust in the OP that she will brake out of her prison 
many of us build our own prison and it takes time to knock down the walls , 
the hardest walls to knock down are the ones we build our self 
taking the first step was posting here ,


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

*


New Dawn! said:



He does not want a divorce. He wants to change his behaviour. Says that he loves me and wants to be with me till death. He has been watching videos and reading stuff stuff but no scheduled and serious therapy. Does not feel that it would help.

Click to expand...

*LOL. He doesn't want to "change" his behavior. He's just telling you whatever you want to hear. If he thought standing on his head and spitting nickels would please you, then he'd tell he'd do that, too. This is a *LIFETIME* of bad behavior and the only way he'll change at this point is due to slowing down from old age or due to health problems that keep him from spreading his STDs all over town.

And therapy isn't going to do *squat*. Well, actually, the 'therapist' will pull a bunch of nonsense excuses out of their ass to explain why he's a serial cheater - one of their most overused nonsense diagnoses they love to use is that he's a "sex addict" which they're likely *not* qualified to diagnose. Doesn't matter - they love slapping that label on anyone who's a repeat offender. Or, they'll give you the usual nonsense they always come up with - he was neglected in childhood; he was abused; he was sexually molested; his parents were alcoholics; his parents were Narcissists, and on and on and on and on and on til *one* of those manufactured excuses fits a little better than the others did. It's such a clown show.

*You married a serial cheater. * That's what he *IS* and that's what he'll *ALWAYS* be. I've heard tell that there have been a handful of serial cheaters who have actually changed but they are the exception - NOT the rule. And let's say a therapist actually _did_ perform a miracle (and it would be a miracle!) and turned him into a monk - so what? You've had 30 years of **** sandwiches shoved down your throat - why on earth should you settle for him NOW? You deserved better for the last 30 years, not 'starting' now. I'm assuming he's in his mid-50s and that means this has been a LIFETIME of this bull- crap dumped on you.

Of course he doesn't want a divorce - the alternative is to have to live on his own and have to do everything himself. That's what YOU'RE for. These serial cheaters need their mommy-wives to stay at home to keep _*their*_ lives in order and to make sure they're taken care of while they're out banging whatever will have their sorry asses. His wanting you to stay has everything to do with wanting to keep what he's already got at home because he never set out to LOSE what he had each time he cheated; his goal was to selfishly *add* to what he already has. He's a selfish prick - I'm not sure why you haven't picked up on that?

*



It is possible that he may be going to her to break up properly. He is that kind of guy.

Click to expand...

*Ok. Now I get it. Denial ain't just a river in Egypt. OP, if you honestly think that's what "Mr. Nice Guy" might be doing - because he's such an exceptional human being that he booked a room for 2 in order to break up with one of his many side-pieces - then I have a bridge in London I'd like to sell you.

I'm going to sit the rest of this one out.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Well if you want to buy his ******** that's up to you. Accept that he screws other women and ignore it.

If you want to stay married then stay married. Hell...find another guy and just have an open marriage....at least you'd get yours 

The excuses are exhausting. Own what you're willing to accept and make decisions accordingly.


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## New Dawn! (Nov 21, 2020)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> LOL. He doesn't want to "change" his behavior. He's just telling you whatever you want to hear. If he thought standing on his head and spitting nickels would please you, then he'd tell he'd do that, too. This is a *LIFETIME* of bad behavior and the only way he'll change at this point is due to slowing down from old age or due to health problems that keep him from spreading his STDs all over town.
> 
> And therapy isn't going to do *squat*. Well, actually, the 'therapist' will pull a bunch of nonsense excuses out of their ass to explain why he's a serial cheater - one of their most overused nonsense diagnoses they love to use is that he's a "sex addict" which they're likely *not* qualified to diagnose. Doesn't matter - they love slapping that label on anyone who's a repeat offender. Or, they'll give you the usual nonsense they always come up with - he was neglected in childhood; he was abused; he was sexually molested; his parents were alcoholics; his parents were Narcissists, and on and on and on and on and on til *one* of those manufactured excuses fits a little better than the others did. It's such a clown show.
> 
> ...


Oh wow. What a comprehensive response.Didnt mean to take up so much of your time. But thanks! I actually agree with you on most of it. It sounds weird but when you have been with someone for 36 years (6 dating) and have them take care of you the way he does from day 1, it is hard not to wonder if he has some kind of disorder. He does not need me to take care of him.

Yes I am a fine cook and homemaker, not boasting but it's true. But...we have helpers who clean the house, he washes and irons his own clothes or the cleaners can do that. He can buy meals and does so if I'm not cooking. He loves my breakfasts but can make that too. He does the dishes better than anyone I know. He is by my side if we are hanging curtains or for anything at all. He helps to iron and hang. He mops the house in between, and mops better than the cleaners. He is also there for my aging mum if needed.

I decorate for church, events, weddings etc as a hobby, He is right by my side with that. This man has been by side supporting me daily with so much. 

Today I remembered that when I was pregnant both times he never missed a doctor's visit. And to this day if I get as little as a headache he is there trying to make me feel better. I can't help but wonder if he has enormous emotional needs that I alone can't fulfil ( that's a disorder in and of itself). Yet he says that I am the perfect wife. 

This looks easy to decipher from the outside looking in. But for me on the inside, it's not so easy. 

In a divorce scenario he would not suffer financially. A divorce may cause him embarrassment tho but I don't know if that's the only reason that he doesn't want one.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

New Dawn! said:


> Oh wow. What a comprehensive response.Didnt mean to take up so much of your time. But thanks! I actually agree with you on most of it. It sounds weird but when you have been with someone for 36 years (6 dating) and have them take care of you the way he does from day 1, it is hard not to wonder if he has some kind of disorder. He does not need me to take care of him.
> 
> Yes I am a fine cook and homemaker, not boasting but it's true. But...we have helpers who clean the house, he washes and irons his own clothes or the cleaners can do that. He can buy meals and does so if I'm not cooking. He loves my breakfasts but can make that too. He does the dishes better than anyone I know. He is by my side if we are hanging curtains or for anything at all. He helps to iron and hang. He mops the house in between, and mops better than the cleaners. He is also there for my aging mum if needed.
> 
> ...


What's your reason for accepting the status quo? Is it as I mentioned, cultural acceptance?


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

So the ED is only with you? Or can he maintain an erection with the other women. (Though I suppose you’ll never know the truth, most of what he says can’t be believed).

Look I’ve heard ED for a man can be devastating but you must have been screaming out for years… I wish things had been different for you and that you had a husband who desired you.

I’m sure he doesn’t want a divorce. Of course he doesn’t want people knowing he couldn’t get it up for what, decades? And then giving it to women elsewhere. Of course he’s scared you’ll tell the truth.

I can understand the story you’ve told yourself and can understand that you’re protecting him more than yourself.

You will, and should, eventually protect yourself and put yourself first. And feel sorry for yourself first. That’s when you won’t give two hoots about anything else anymore.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

New Dawn! said:


> What should I do?


What should you do? Book a trip to the same country, book into the same hotel. Check in, and when you do so tell reception that his credit card is stolen. Then go up to the room, kick the door in and let 'em have it.

That's what I'd do anyway. And probably run off with their clothes too. Aholes.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

New Dawn! said:


> Oh wow. What a comprehensive response.Didnt mean to take up so much of your time. But thanks! I actually agree with you on most of it. It sounds weird but when you have been with someone for 36 years (6 dating) and have them take care of you the way he does from day 1, it is hard not to wonder if he has some kind of disorder. He does not need me to take care of him.
> 
> Yes I am a fine cook and homemaker, not boasting but it's true. But...we have helpers who clean the house, he washes and irons his own clothes or the cleaners can do that. He can buy meals and does so if I'm not cooking. He loves my breakfasts but can make that too. He does the dishes better than anyone I know. He is by my side if we are hanging curtains or for anything at all. He helps to iron and hang. He mops the house in between, and mops better than the cleaners. He is also there for my aging mum if needed.
> 
> ...


Dawn, stop trying to justify his crap. You don't have to justify staying married to a bunch of internet strangers if that's what you want to do.

Nobody's perfect....everyone comes with pluses and minuses. We decide if the good outweighs the bad and we accept the whole package.

Part of your guy's package is that he screws other women, so you have an open marriage. Are his other qualities worth it? Only you can decide that, and you certainly wouldn't be the first person to answer yes to this question.

It's just important that you accept what you're dealing with, and that's a guy who according to you has a lot of great qualities but also screws other women and takes the suicide route if you won't put up with it. That means that your pain is far less important then what he wants.

So if you decide it's worth staying married then stop being the marriage police. Let him go wherever he wants and accept that he'll probably screw other women. Sure he'll ******** you and read books until he's satisfied you aren't going anywhere, then you'll get what you've always had because that's who he is.

Let him do him and find yourself a side guy, then you can both play happy family.

None of this is meant to be snarky....I truly believe that this is the only way you'll find some peace if you decide to stick around.


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## Goobertron (Aug 14, 2012)

It sounds so frustrating to be married to someone but not have any sexual intimacy with them for 3 years because you don't trust him and he's just playing you and keeping his side thang going the whole time. He'd be singing her a totally different tune and they're probably really excited about this weekend. He sounds like he's the kind of guy who can have his cake and eat it too. If you get a divorce you'll find out a whole bunch of more stuff and wish you'd gone earlier I bet.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

NewDawn,

I'm sorry you went through this.

However the complicated stories your WH tells you are typical of serial cheating OM, they have ED, they are depressed, they want to commit suicide, they were never loved, they cry like a baby, they say anything to avoid responsibility and losing you. 

I doubt you'll ever get an honest accounting of your his activities or genuine remorse.

Yes he has ED, but only with you. He may even tell you the sex with the OW was really bad, he did it as a service to humanity and only once.

The problem with a guy like your WH is that they create a complete story about their life and you get sucked into it and believe it.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

BlueWoman said:


> This would be something to note, if he in fact had gone that long without sex. He hasn’t, as she confirmed in December that he was still cheating on her.
> 
> Short of divorcing him, not having sex with a serial cheater just makes good sense.
> 
> OP, honestly I think you should just let it happen and move on with the divorce proceedings, with no guilt. You are denying yourself the opportunity to have a emotionally and sexually satisfying life with someone else. Staying with him is just punishing yourself, while he continues to have everything he wants: A loving wife at home and plenty of sex with other women.


I don’t disagree, and I’m certainly not suggesting she should have sex with him. 

Merely noting that current situation is not sustainable and can’t result in a good outcome. If she stays with him without sex, he will keep cheating( which he may do regardless). As far as I can tell, the only viable path forward at this point is for her to divorce him.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

@New Dawn!

On the topic of him traveling to break up with an affair partner, that is a HORRIBLE thing to do. Do you realize what usually happens? The cheating spouse chickens out. In his case he will be in another country out of your site. So it will probably turn into a few days of sex and fun. If he was going there to break up with her, he would not have booked a room for two.

I think "letting" him go and then trying to figure out if he's cheating is profoundly passive aggressive. Why would you even think of putting yourself through that? Want find out what his plans are? Tell him you want to join him on the trip, it would be a great for the two of you. He might just cancel that trip so fast it gives him whiplash.

Whether or not you stay with him, you would greatly benefit from reading the book _"_*Surviving an Affair**". *The book is a quick read. You really need to learn what you have to do and what you have to require from him if there is any chance at all for your relationship it recover from what he's put you through. And even if you divorce, you really need to learn what this book teaches because you are far too lenient and have allowed yourself to be a door mat for decades. It's all about you loving yourself enough to protect yourself.


You say he's "That kind of guy." That's not kind or caring to you. He should be concerned about you, not some woman he cheated with. 

What is usually suggested is that to end an affair, the wayward spouse (WS) write a *no contact letter*_. _The letter is all about how he cheating was shellfish and hurt his wife, you. And it tells the affair partner (AP) that there will be no more contact. What you might think this is cruel to the AP, keep in mind that the AP could care less about you and that she participated in hurting you. Then he and you go out to mail it to her. "BS" in the letter means Betrayed Spouse... you. So your name would go there.

_Dear Affair Partner, _​​_I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk with you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that (BS) did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay (BS) for the pain I have caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she’s been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship._​​_Sincerely,_​_Disloyal Spouse_​​Here's a link to a site that has a few sample no contact letters.
Sample No Contact Letters | AFFAIRCARE (wordpress.com)


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Typical story......

Sure...the obvious answer is why accept it? Leave...

But here's the catch.,..

She likes the security, the providing, the way the guy operates....Truth is she may get divorced, may or may not find sex she wants, _but loses all the other perks._....Who knows how high sex is on her list? for a lot of women its not that high....not enough to blow it all up and lose the rest...

So be honest about it...Forget about what he's doing and enjoy all the other accoutrements...No one will judge you for it and if they do eff them anyway...You happen to find someone else to get you off, go for it!.. Rest assured, he likely won't be on here complaining about it...In fact, he would probably be happier...it would relieve whatever guilt he may have over what he is doing....

As an aside, I see this a lot....Guy has no or little interest in wife, or more commonly she has no interest in him(sexually) and wont make any effort...BUT...he can't do anything about it, other than blow his life up and face all the crap divorce brings....Like why would someone with zero sexual interest in another person, then police that person when it comes to sex, or put him in a no win situation?


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Being a policeman is a rewarding career. For a policeman. 

So when he goes, I wouldn’t sit around at home or even think about what he might be doing. Can you book a trip yourself? Entertain at home?

I bet you’re fun and infectious. See here’s the thing, I don’t see a trace of bitterness or defensiveness in you at all. I see a man who never knew what to do with a woman like you. He is beneath you you know. That’s why he’s been out trying to Be. The. Man. 

It sounds like you wanted and desired him for a long time and I’m always wary that men like this are a little suppressed in some way... And anyone addicted to outside validation ain’t much of a catch even for the affair partners. He doesn’t even want a divorce 🙄 Of course he doesn’t.

I’ve been an OW a few times and had a few partners before marriage. The worst in bed were the two cheaters, both were duds 😕.

The fact that you’ve been embarrassed to mention the ED up until now says a lot. If you had told people two decades ago… what would they have advised you? And if it had become public, he would have been put if there like a flash and divorced you immediately.

I don’t advocate being mean or vengeful. But I am all for telling the truth.

Image what would happen if you told the truth about his ED and affairs to everyone? That would be you, finally looking after you. And putting your feelings first. He’s put the shame and embarrassment onto you for far too long and you could have made another man happy instead of putting up with this boy.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Oh, and all that nice stuff he does for you outside the fact that he never wanted to have sex with you, despite you having a healthy drive?

You can find a nice gay man for company who’ll fuss over you when you’re sick 😉

Lady, I hope you find your skirt, your lipstick and your wings.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

New Dawn! said:


> Okay. Married for 30 years. We live civilly. No toxic arguments, name calling nor verbal disrespect. My husband is a serial cheater. I confirmed that last December. Over the years I have discovered a couple of affairs and suspected others. Last December I confirmed that he is still at it. I went and saw a divorce lawyer. He does not want a divorce. He wants to change his behaviour. Says that he loves me and wants to be with me till death. He has been watching videos and reading stuff stuff but no scheduled and serious therapy. Does not feel that it would help.
> 
> Outside of cheating you could not ask for a better husband. Affectionate (although I haven't allowed him to touch me in about 3 years), supportive, a good protector and provider, easy to get along with, very technically skilled, looks after house and home and makes sure that he is there for me in every situation.
> 
> ...


 I am finding it hard to not get mixed up with the topics just now , there are 3 
very much the same story , 
3 different people with the same type problem , same stage, and none wanting to press the divorce button 

it would be good to read the other topics here it might give you a better insight into what is wrong 
you could even contact each other you would get help out of helping each other 

I wish you well Dawn


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## New Dawn! (Nov 21, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> What's your reason for accepting the status quo? Is it as I mentioned, cultural acceptance?


I wouldn't say that I have accepted the status quo. I discovered the 'first' affair 19 years ago. He was remorseful. He ended it. We did a bit of counselling but the counsellor was poor. I forgave him eventually and we started to rebuild but it took me 3 years to start to love and trust again. Two years later I discovered the 'second' affair. He said that it happened as he was vulnerable because he didn't feel that I had fully accepted him back, although I treated him well. He ended it. We separated for two years. By this time I had fallen out of love with him although we still got along well. 

He came back home and I did not reconnect emotionally because I did not want to be hurt again. I just observed him and decided that with the next infraction I would divorce. A couple of years later I saw signs of infidelity but couldn't prove it. But there was no hurt because I was no longer in love. I then planned my divorce and exit...started to get my financial ducks in a row...started looking at housing etc. in case there was concrete evidence coming. Well the concrete proof came December last year. I confronted him, he had to admit and I went straight to the lawyer. 

He did not cooperate with the process. He felt that he could be fixed and we could be saved.

He 'ended' the affair/s and over the past several months we have had the most in-depth, open and meaniingful discussion in years. He says that he is older and wiser and appreciates me and the marriage more and he is requesting to be allowed to hug me at least once daily and for me to touch him so that he doesn't feel the need to reach out to anyone else. 

I'm from the Caribbean. If you are from Trinidad as your profile name suggests, you will know how deep the cultural roots of infidelity go. My father was a serial cheater, so was his and at least half the men I know. You get it.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

I feel for you… it’s ok in that culture for men, but not so much for women (I’m Eastern European, if we do that, we’re just downgraded to Russian porn-stars 😕, tarnished forever). It’s unfair isn’t it 😔. I really hope the rest of your years are happy and that this doesn’t kill the light in you.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

Luckylucky said:


> I feel for you… it’s ok in that culture for men, but not so much for women (I’m Eastern European, if we do that, we’re just downgraded to Russian porn-stars 😕, tarnished forever). It’s unfair isn’t it 😔. I really hope the rest of your years are happy and that this doesn’t kill the light in you.


 just on a lighter note some people look up to porn stars ; LOL


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

frenchpaddy said:


> just on a lighter note some people look up to porn stars ; LOL


Not something OP or anyone with class would aspire to.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

i only talk for myself and I find it hard to call anyone in the porn industry a star , 
I think porn does more harm than good when some people try to say that they use porn as a sex ed tool ,


Luckylucky said:


> Not something OP or anyone with class would aspire to.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

New Dawn! said:


> My husband has Erectile Dysfunction (ED). We discovered this 10 years ago while he was having an affair.


You're going to have to explain this. Discovering ED is not like discovering a bird trapped on your screened porch. I've never heard of a case where a man wakes up one day an finds he can no longer get it up. Question for you Dawn. Have you ever had a honest and serious discussion with this cat about why he's traveling the globe spending time with other, and either banging or attempting to bang ,other women when he an unfulfilled woman in his bed at home? And if you will indulge with another question, do you really care that your sex life, at least your sex life shared with a man, is non existent?


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## New Dawn! (Nov 21, 2020)

MattMatt said:


> Why is he travelling to that country?


I can think of no reason other than to be with his AP. But ...he showed me his e-ticket last night which seems to confirm that he is going to the country he said he was going to. This is indeed a mystery yet to unravel itself. I don't know what to make of it...yet.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

New Dawn! said:


> I wouldn't say that I have accepted the status quo. I discovered the 'first' affair 19 years ago. He was remorseful. He ended it.


He most definitely was not remorseful. If he was, he wouldn't have become a serial cheater.


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## New Dawn! (Nov 21, 2020)

VladDracul said:


> You're going to have to explain this. Discovering ED is not like discovering a bird trapped on your screened porch. I've never heard of a case where a man wakes up one day an finds he can no longer get it up. Question for you Dawn. Have you ever had a honest and serious discussion with this cat about why he's traveling the globe spending time with other, and either banging or attempting to bang ,other women when he an unfulfilled woman in his bed at home? And if you will indulge with another question, do you really care that your sex life, at least your sex life shared with a man, is non existent?


He is involved in a sport for which he represents his country internationally. He travels a few times annually as a result. He has used this to help mask his infidelity. He has taken at least one woman I know of from our home country with him on one of these trips. 

He meets women involved in the same sport when he travels and befriends them. 

Once he is overseas he can easily have any AP stay with him in the hotel room. He may have met this latest AP while training in that country in May 2019. In December last year I discovered that he travelled back to that country in December 2019 to spend a week with her. He had lied and said that he was going back there for training. 

When I married him I had loved him very much. A few years in I had loved him more. I told him that if he were to become paralyzed from his waist down I would still love him and remain faithful. He's taken advantage of that stance.

I do have a normal sex drive and wish I had a normal marriage that involved sex. There are only two solutions to that. Either cheat or divorce and have a sexual partner. I see no value in cheating and that's not in my DNA. 
I value and respect my body and so I would not have casual sex. At the same time, I'm not eager nor inclined to give my heart to someone again. So I live sexless. Sometimes that's hard.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

New Dawn! said:


> I wouldn't say that I have accepted the status quo. I discovered the 'first' affair 19 years ago. He was remorseful. He ended it. We did a bit of counselling but the counsellor was poor. I forgave him eventually and we started to rebuild but it took me 3 years to start to love and trust again. Two years later I discovered the 'second' affair. He said that it happened as he was vulnerable because he didn't feel that I had fully accepted him back, although I treated him well. He ended it. We separated for two years. By this time I had fallen out of love with him although we still got along well.
> 
> He came back home and I did not reconnect emotionally because I did not want to be hurt again. I just observed him and decided that with the next infraction I would divorce. A couple of years later I saw signs of infidelity but couldn't prove it. But there was no hurt because I was no longer in love. I then planned my divorce and exit...started to get my financial ducks in a row...started looking at housing etc. in case there was concrete evidence coming. Well the concrete proof came December last year. I confronted him, he had to admit and I went straight to the lawyer.
> 
> ...


Yes, I'm from Trinidad. I lived in Barbados for a few years, still have friends/family there. I understand exactly what you mean, it's no different in Trinidad. My father was also a serial cheater. Honestly, that level of acceptance is a major part of the reason I didn't want to marry within my culture. Of course, that didn't prevent it from happening to me... 

Yes, I understand your mindset and where you're coming from, but I'm telling you, you won't realize how that knowledge burdens you until you're out of the situation. I get that love and history are making you think twice, but you have to decide what's important to you now. 

If you think you can live this way for the rest of your life and not become embittered and unhappy, then that's a choice only you can make. I discovered my exH's affair and decided to cut my losses, despite a 20 yr history, b/c I wanted more. I'm really sorry you're dealing with this, people here don't understand how invasive cheating is to the culture, so you'll be judged more harshly for staying by many.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

frenchpaddy said:


> i only talk for myself and I find it hard to call anyone in the porn industry a star ,
> I think porn does more harm than good when some people try to say that they use porn as a sex ed tool ,


Funny how humans were able to figure out "sex ed" since the dawn of time before porn became so widely available online. 🤣 

And yea, this is a thread jack.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

@New Dawn!

I've read quite a few books and articles about ED caused by psychological factors. Usually it's a passive aggressive way to for the guy to "punish" his wife/partner. Your husband sounds like a "nice guy" except for his cheating. It sounds like he does not like to display/express his anger and frustrations at you. So ED is the expression. It's a safe way for him to express his anger/frustrations at you because in many ways he becomes the victim. Poor him, he just cannot get it up with you. Now he can get it up with other women, just not you.

What has he done to "cure" his ED? How many doctors has he seen? Has he had his testosterones levels checked?


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> @New Dawn!
> 
> I've read quite a few books and articles about ED caused by psychological factors. Usually it's a passive aggressive way to for the guy to "punish" his wife/partner. Your husband sounds like a "nice guy" except for his cheating. It sounds like he does not like to display/express his anger and frustrations at you. So ED is the expression. It's a safe way for him to express his anger/frustrations at you because in many ways he becomes the victim. Poor him, he just cannot get it up with you. Now he can get it up with other women, just not you.
> 
> ...


I can attest to this. It sounds eerily similar to my experience. He always used to comment how my family was so perfect (they weren't) and how everyone did better than him. 

In any case, the why doesn't matter anymore, he chose to cheat instead of deal with his issues. If it really was about OP, he'd have divorced her long ago, not kept stringing her along with fake remorse and promises.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

TXTrini said:


> I can attest to this. It sounds eerily similar to my experience. He always used to comment how my family was so perfect (they weren't) and how everyone did better than him.
> 
> In any case, the why doesn't matter anymore, he chose to cheat instead of deal with his issues. If it really was about OP, he'd have divorced her long ago, not kept stringing her along with fake remorse and promises.


You are right, it's not about @New Dawn! It's about him. If he has chosen to not do everything medically and phytologically possible to handle his ED, it's because it serves his purpose.


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## New Dawn! (Nov 21, 2020)

EleGirl said:


> @New Dawn!
> 
> I've read quite a few books and articles about ED caused by psychological factors. Usually it's a passive aggressive way to for the guy to "punish" his wife/partner. Your husband sounds like a "nice guy" except for his cheating. It sounds like he does not like to display/express his anger and frustrations at you. So ED is the expression. It's a safe way for him to express his anger/frustrations at you because in many ways he becomes the victim. Poor him, he just cannot get it up with you. Now he can get it up with other women, just not you.
> 
> What has he done to "cure" his ED? How many doctors has he seen? Has he had his testosterones levels checked?


That's an interesting perspective on the ED. I must check it out! He had his testosterone levels checked and they were okay. I believe it may have something to do with his diabetes. He did not like talking about it. He was embarrassed. So I didn't push. I would only bring it up every now and then. I thought I was being a good wife for handling this issue so well. 😐


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

New Dawn! said:


> That's an interesting perspective on the ED. I must check it out! He had his testosterone levels checked and they were okay. I believe it may have something to do with his diabetes. He did not like talking about it. He was embarrassed. So I didn't push. I would only bring it up every now and then. I thought I was being a good wife for handling this issue so well. 😐


Sorry hon, now you are inventing excuses and passing on his personal responsibility.

Diabetes and low testosterone did not make him step out of his marriage and screw other women. He is devoid of morality and character. It is not your responsibility to solve his problems, just your own.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

New Dawn! said:


> That's an interesting perspective on the ED. I must check it out! He had his testosterone levels checked and they were okay. I believe it may have something to do with his diabetes. He did not like talking about it. He was embarrassed. So I didn't push. I would only bring it up every now and then. I thought I was being a good wife for handling this issue so well. 😐


I get that it's a sensitive topic for a guy who has ED. But a guy who really cares does something about it. It is true that diabetes can have a bad effect on ED. Does he have type 1 or type 2 diabetes?

You say that you have not been receptive to him sexually for some time now. So he had ED but still hitting on you?


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

VladDracul said:


> You're going to have to explain this. Discovering ED is not like discovering a bird trapped on your screened porch. I've never heard of a case where a man wakes up one day an finds he can no longer get it up. Question for you Dawn. Have you ever had a honest and serious discussion with this cat about why he's traveling the globe spending time with other, and either banging or attempting to bang ,other women when he an unfulfilled woman in his bed at home? And if you will indulge with another question, do you really care that your sex life, at least your sex life shared with a man, is non existent?


Sorry To be naive in regards to men, but it’s that how it happens? One day they literally wake up and can’t get it up? They’re not born with it, one day they really do wake up and start losing the errctions. 

I think OP mentioned he was fine during the first 10 years.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Lucky, I've never known of a man having spontaneous ED. From what I know, men start losing it sometimes during the sex act, than often during sex and final they can't perform at all. Hopefully it never gets to that point. I've had some problems of late due to a massive infection of the UT, lunges (pneumonia) ears, and sinuses several months ago that dang near killed me, heavy doses of medication, et cetera, and nearly three quarters of a century walking the earth, but I'm far from any kind of expert. My experience is limited to losing it during the act, having to stop, and come back later,- may be minutes. May be a couple of days. Nonetheless, I was alway able to take my redheaded girl (wife) on a majic carpet ride. I could hold out that long. Since I recovered from the infection and off the meds, I'm pretty well back. Most of my other information comes from third parties.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

He is just an opportunist, having his cake and eating it and knowing that you may threaten to leave him etc. but will not follow through. You should divorce him, he does not deserve you and you have been far too patient.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

My ex had ED and it was definitely not spontaneous. When I met him he was 50 and already showing signs, although I didn't realize it then. 

First it was that he needed a few days after sex before he could finish again. Then it was a few days until he could even get it up.

Then it progressed to not being able to keep it up at all unless his porn fetish was involved or the added pressure of hands was involved.

He refused to deal with it until i was done with him, which happened for other reasons.

This stuff happened over years.

FYI...my bf is type 1 diabetic and has no problem at all, but he takes very good care of himself.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

I've never had ED, but if ever the occasion were to present itself that I was somehow obligated, threatened, or coerced into having sex with a woman I wasn't physically attracted to or just didn't like, I could easily see that happening...


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

New Dawn! said:


> Outside of cheating you could not ask for a better husband. Affectionate (although I haven't allowed him to touch me in about 3 years), supportive, a good protector and provider, easy to get along with, very technically skilled, looks after house and home and makes sure that he is there for me in every situation.


If you haven’t touched him in 3 years, why wouldn’t he opt for the week of hot sex?

You don’t love, trust or desire him, but he does errands and fixes things around the house.

You don’t have a marital sex life, you don’t even like him and he travels to other countries to bang other women but he says he wants to remain married to you. 

It sounds to me like you both just want to use each other as a Spouse Appliance that does things around the house.


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## New Dawn! (Nov 21, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> If you haven’t touched him in 3 years, why wouldn’t he opt for the week of hot sex?
> 
> You don’t love, trust or desire him, but he does errands and fixes things around the house.
> 
> ...


Well here's the thing. I haven't touched him in three years because he'd been touching other ppl immediately before that while I was still touching him. 

Any mature man who wanted to save his marriage would have done the reconciliatory work so that he could be touched by his wife. But he continued to violate. So why should I touch him? I'd been planning my exit strategy and really didn't care who he touched nor in which manner.

Here's the bottom line. Whether I've been touching him it not, he's been touching other ppl, and doing more intimately. So...

We actually like each other. I'm no longer in love with him at this point but we are actually friends. He claims that he both loves and likes me. It's all bewildering but we do actually still have chemistry. It does not mean that I wouldn't divorce him tho..... it's top of mind for me. 

I do believe that after a divorce and the dust settles, we could be best friends again.


DownByTheRiver said:


> I had a bf who wouldn't tell me he had ed but just avoided sex but he "practiced" with other women, instead of failing with me.
> 
> Is this how you want to live your life? If you like your life and don't miss the sex, then whatever you want to do. I mean, I would want to know if he's able to have sex with those other women. I believe he may with some or he'd have given up years ago. So he's cheating, no matter how you slice it.
> 
> It's bothersome he won't do therapy. If he's really trying, he would go with you to try to sort this out and do everything possible to sort it out. I feel he's using you as a beard at this point, to pretend he is successful in all ways. If I were you, I'd ask him straight up, "How many of those women have you been able to get it up for?" They hate talking about ED. He could have an issue from childhood (my bf did) that might get sorted out in therapy, or not.


Thabks. I appreciate your response. It gives me something to think about. I do believe that he definitely practices with these women .....and gets it up too..at least sometimes.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

New Dawn! said:


> Well here's the thing. I haven't touched him in three years because he'd been touching other ppl immediately before that while I was still touching him.
> 
> Any mature man who wanted to save his marriage would have done the reconciliatory work so that he could be touched by his wife. But he continued to violate. So why should I touch him? I'd been planning my exit strategy and really didn't care who he touched nor in which manner.
> 
> ...


Yeah, you have a right to know -- or just leave. He may have some kink he's hiding from you too that he can get it up for. Also, are you sure the "other" ones are women?


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## New Dawn! (Nov 21, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Also


li


DownByTheRiver said:


> Yeah, you have a right to know -- or just leave. He may have some kink he's hiding from you too that he can get it up for. Also, are you sure the "other" ones are women?


Lol. That would be interesting if they were not. I'm pretty sure they are. I've seen pictures and heard their voices. 😄


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I only brought it up because it would explain some things.


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## New Dawn! (Nov 21, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> I'm really sad reading this, b/c this could have been my life exactly... I am sorry you seem to think you must forgive him and have to die living this lie. Honestly, I think you should get therapy to address why you have accepted this treatment and take back your agency.
> 
> I did the same thing, including the whole sexless bit, dealing with the excuses for over a decade, but as soon as I found out he screwed someone else after all I sacrificed, that made me MAD. You don't sound angry at all. Are you dependent on him financially?
> 
> Btw, I've lived in and traveled back and forth to your country for decades, and you and I well know Caribbean culture is more tolerant, even accepting of cheating and entire extra families. However, you don't have to accept that crap if you don't want to, social embarrassment or not.


Somehow I'm only now seeing this response. My general state of being is happy. My happiness comes from within, absent external influence. I have been this way from a child. 

It doesn't mean that I am happy about my marriage. I certainly am not. I am disappointed, I have had days when I wasn't functioning properly at work, and I have had periods of sadness and even short bursts of anger. Anger is not an emotion that I am really acquainted with, in general.

But overall I feel happiness way more than those negative emotions. My mother says that I was born peaceful and that she had to keep checking on me as a baby because I did not cry much ... not even when hungry. I've always tried to make the best out of life and not let any negative thing consume me. That's just the way it is with me but I am fully aware that the state of my marriage is not healthy for me. 

I really did hurt over the first and second affairs. I am apt to feeling emotional pain more than anger and bitterness. But over time, as I detached emotionally from 
my H in order to protect myself from pain, I really didn't care what he did, as I was focussed on my exit strategy. 

No. I am not financially dependent on him at all.. hallelujah! But that may be part of the problem too. He has said that he feels more important to and needed by these women who tend to be beneath him financially. 🙄


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

hamadryad said:


> I've never had ED, but if ever the occasion were to present itself that I was somehow obligated, threatened, or coerced into having sex with a woman I wasn't physically attracted to or just didn't like, I could easily see that happening...


In a marriage situation though??? Why hang around? ‘Lady, I don’t want to have sex with you! I’m off!’

He’s clearly not allowing her to divorce in his mini little ways. Given the pattern over the decades, he doesn’t want to be a divorced man. And I don’t think it’s a money thing, you know, that thing where he doesn’t want her getting his money… I think he’s a dud in bed and wants his loyal keeper of secrets very close forever and ever.

There’s the devastated man with ED who just isn’t physically attracted to her, ok fine, but then there’s the namby-pamby sort who keeps her around and drags her along for the ride down to his little hell. I think she’s married to one of those, flitting from woman to woman to prove his worth.


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## New Dawn! (Nov 21, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> Sorry hon, now you are inventing excuses and passing on his personal responsibility.
> 
> Diabetes and low testosterone did not make him step out of his marriage and screw other women. He is devoid of morality and character. It is not your responsibility to solve his problems, just your own.


You may have misunderstood me. I meant that the diabetes may have caused the ED. Low testosterone does that too but his levels are normal.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

New Dawn! said:


> Well here's the thing. I haven't touched him in three years because he'd been touching other ppl immediately before that while I was still touching him.
> 
> Any mature man who wanted to save his marriage would have done the reconciliatory work so that he could be touched by his wife. But he continued to violate. So why should I touch him? I'd been planning my exit strategy and really didn't care who he touched nor in which manner.
> 
> ...





New Dawn! said:


> Somehow I'm only now seeing this response. My general state of being is happy. My happiness comes from within, absent external influence. I have been this way from a child.
> 
> It doesn't mean that I am happy about my marriage. I certainly am not. I am disappointed, I have had days when I wasn't functioning properly at work, and I have had periods of sadness and even short bursts of anger. Anger is not an emotion that I am really acquainted with, in general.
> 
> ...





New Dawn! said:


> You may have misunderstood me. I meant that the diabetes may have caused the ED. Low testosterone does that too but his levels are normal.


Hi NewDawn,
Thank you for clarifying the situation and your state of mind. I get that you don't want to touch him, God knows what you can catch at this point. You know AIDS is rampant there, my mom told me about the AIDS village, and how many children are born with the virus, b/c of the prevalence of unprotected sex and promiscuity of cheaters. 

Am I right in concluding you are implementing your exit strategy and divorcing him? If so, what does it matter why he does it? I'm so happy you're financially independent, so you truly don't need to be trapped in this marriage unless you want to be. 

Personally, I could not be friends with someone who did not treat me remotely like one. Not unless you're good with your friends lying, cheating, insulting your intelligence, and denying you affection. 

Anyway, I am not judging you. I found it very difficult to walk away from my life when I was on the spot, but it was what I needed for myself and the peace has been worth it, though I won't lie, the adjustment has been difficult. Maybe you're ok with things as they are, only you can decide if it's worth it.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

@New Dawn! Yes darling lady, I think I mentioned early that part of your personality shows. Of course it hurts, of course. But it does show that you’re not a bitter or angry lady.

And by his own admission, he seeks women beneath him. You simply chose a man beneath you, and he didn’t know what to do with a woman like you. The greatest men in history got to where they were because they understood that it wasn’t shameful to have a female advisor, a happy and smart woman beside them. And that’s why some men just aren’t presidents, they’re not good enough and stay low 😉


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Luckylucky said:


> In a marriage situation though??? Why hang around? ‘Lady, I don’t want to have sex with you! I’m off!’


With all due respect, that's typically kind of like the way a woman would handle or analyze it.....

Guys tend to be of a different mindset in that they are normally more adept at compartmentalizing these things....Why divorce ?, it certainly doesn't sound like the OP is a miserable hag of a woman...She actually sounds quite pleasant, etc...So if he can continue this dance, the show will go on...

Women initiate divorce 70% of the time...I have no doubt that it's not because men are more happy than women, they just figure out the ways around it perhaps better than women can...And while these stats are changing, historically men had a lot more to lose....

He figured out a way to orchestrate his life in a way that he doesn't have to do all the crap and endure all the pain involved with divorce, yet get his sexual needs met....To him, this is the perfect scenario,...IMO, the only two ways this ends is she finally pulls the plug, or he meets a woman that blows his socks off and will want more out of the arrangement.....Otherwise, this situation is working great for him...

I actually have known personally a few guys that are doing exactly what this guy is doing...It's really not as rare as you think...


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Oh it’s not rare at all, very common, I agree! They fit into such a box too. Unfortunately in another life, before I was married, I was the side piece (not proud and not making excuses for my terrible behaviour). 

They were all glitter, these lads, and I didn’t hold a candle to their wives. And the wives were better then their little husbands too, in every way, amazing women!

OP is quite the lady, I hope things work out for her. How are you feeling today?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

New Dawn! said:


> Well here's the thing. I haven't touched him in three years because he'd been touching other ppl immediately before that while I was still touching him.
> 
> Any mature man who wanted to save his marriage would have done the reconciliatory work so that he could be touched by his wife. But he continued to violate. So why should I touch him? I'd been planning my exit strategy and really didn't care who he touched nor in which manner.
> 
> ...


I understand why you don’t desire or want to be intimate with him. 

What I’m not getting here is why you are even considering remaining married to him. 

I’m not sure why he’s wanting to remain married to you either since you no longer have a marital sex life, he’s getting it from other women and you seem to be pretty open and up front that you are no longer in love with him. 

So my point was you are each using each other as a domestic convenience .... ie ‘Spouse Appliance.’

So you need to ask yourself two questions-

Question # 1. Do I want to just be a Spouse Appliance so he doesn’t have to scrub the grime off the shower curtain himself?

And Question # 2. Do I need a Spouse Appliance so I don’t have to mow the lawn or kill spiders in the house myself? 🕷


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

hamadryad said:


> With all due respect, that's typically kind of like the way a woman would handle or analyze it.....
> 
> Guys tend to be of a different mindset in that they are normally more adept at compartmentalizing these things....Why divorce ?, it certainly doesn't sound like the OP is a miserable hag of a woman...She actually sounds quite pleasant, etc...So if he can continue this dance, the show will go on...
> 
> ...


It's called being a cake-eater and not the least bit admirable. 

Sure there are lots of guys who do this, but decent people stop regarding them as upstanding, honorable men once they know about their secret lives. It sounds like that's why he won't want a divorce or for any of this to come out and stain his pristine image.


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## New Dawn! (Nov 21, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> I understand why you don’t desire or want to be intimate with him.
> 
> What I’m not getting here is why you are even considering remaining married to him.
> 
> ...


Lol. I like how you couch it. And you are somewhat correct in your analysis. But it's deeper than that. We would both prefer to return to a normal marriage. He wants to change. Not sure if he can. We don't want things to remain as they are. If change isn't 
happening, we will divorce.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

The marriage has been broken for most of the time you’ve been married.

Think about it - you are doing without sex and he’s getting it from many other sources over the years. That’s not loving behavior.

I was with my exH for 27 years with almost the same behavior from my exH. It stole my peace of mind for nearly all of those years. Whenever he cheated he would do nice things to overcompensate for HIS guilt and bad behavior! He would always buy me expensive jewelry too. I would look at the jewelry and just KNOW that all my suspicions were true! 

I can tell you - I am 15 years free now from his manipulations and games. Yes, my exH would have done most anything to keep the marriage going (short of being faithful). He wanted to be married AND be able to do whatever he wanted. 
I never felt truly loved, honored and cherished! I never had peace of mind!

And ya know what? I will NEVER regret gaining back my peace of mind! I will never regret stopping that slow stream of disrespect.

He remarried - and I’m sure he still cheats - all the signs are there. Only this wife will never divorce him because he’s good looking and makes money.

Every abuser wants and needs a victim. Stop being his victim. He’s not going to change.

You can start living again.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

It wouldn’t matter what trip he may have…and with who. His history shows this is exactly who he is - a cheater who won’t stop enough to consider that his behavior harms you.

Do like I did - while my exH was away with his GF i emptied the bank accounts, closed the charge cards, changed the locks and filed for divorce.

It was only when he called me to say he was running late but would be home by dinner time that I told him “don’t bother coming home - I know about your GF”. He still tried to deny it - but I was tracking every move he made on his weekend away (he was using MY American Express card!) he even booked a couples massage with her! 😳🤮

When someone shows you who they are - and it affects you with harm - believe that YOU CAN CHANGE it! 

And guess what - I now get to do whatever I want with whoever I want for as long as I want! And life is great! No more worrying about the crap he was serving up to me!


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

there is nothing as bad as the partner that does not want to see , jack and Jill went up the hill, but then they went different ways , risk is only one of the two find another while up there and makes them understand that the other has not fully loved them in a long time , " he /she made me feel good and wanted " 

who is wrong that jack fell down , jack for not staying near jill 
jill for letting jack take his eyes off the path 
or john for kissing jill when jack fell down


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

New Dawn! said:


> Lol. I like how you couch it. And you are somewhat correct in your analysis. But it's deeper than that. We would both prefer to return to a normal marriage. He wants to change. Not sure if he can. We don't want things to remain as they are. If change isn't
> happening, we will divorce.


He hasn’t wanted to change it enough to stop doing the things that cause harm to you and the marriage!

You’ve given him PLENTY of years to change and he hasn’t changed his behavior. This IS who he is! 

He knows he isn’t going to change - he’s just hoping you don’t keep finding out!

You can divorce knowing he won’t change. He can still participate in your life the way he has been IF you want him doing those things for you. But maybe at least YOU would get to set the rules and say when.

And then you can see who you want to - and find a partner that knows how to be faithful. Yes, some men do stay faithful.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

He will only do this while you allow it.
Stop allowing it by removing yourself from the marriage.

By staying - you have allowed it to happen to yourself. You are a victim now - of your own choosing. You can change it - you are the only one who will change it… he isn’t going to change it.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> It's called being a cake-eater and not the least bit admirable.
> 
> Sure there are lots of guys who do this, but decent people stop regarding them as upstanding, honorable men once they know about their secret lives. It sounds like that's why he won't want a divorce or for any of this to come out and stain his pristine image.



Who is saying it's honorable or admirable??...

It's really like a no win scenario, though....

Let's say he did the "admirable" thing and divorced her and ran off with the first woman he found....You think that's going to make anyone look any more admirable or decent? Nope....Or maybe he should stay, be faithful, and accept the fact that he is obviously missing something that he feels he needs to get??

I've been around a while....I have seen a lot of my family and friends get divorced...In almost every case, the guy is labeled the villian and the woman the saint/victim...Knowing the back story, in some cases it's true, but in other's it's not....

So to be clear, I am not justifying or making it sound like this guy is admirable....He may actually love the OP, but the bottom line is he doesn't value her enough to not put his dyck someplace else...We don't know all the backstory of why this is, just what she is telling us....He's chosen the path of least resistance, and she is obviously still getting something out of the deal, or she wouldn't be still hanging around...Like I said previously, he may be banking on going with this as long as he can, because she allows it...she can pull the plug tomorrow....or even today...


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

hamadryad said:


> Who is saying it's honorable or admirable??...
> 
> It's really like a no win scenario, though....
> 
> ...


No-one, I simply said it's NOT. Why is this debatable?

Anyway, he'd have been a more decent man to divorce and move on than he is cake eating. However, as you pointed out, OP is allowing it, she knows and has done nothing to change the status quo. 

It doesn't matter if he loves her or not, his actions obviously bother OP, or she'd be fine and not post in the first place. 

@newdawn
As I mentioned, I don't know what you're looking for here, you long ago stopped being a victim, you are a participant. You don't need this man to provide for you, you like having him around doing things for you despite his extra-marital activities. 

If you want a different life, only you can make that happen. You are in full control of yourself and your actions, waiting and hoping for him to change is futile. 

Good luck.


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## nekonamida (Feb 21, 2017)

New Dawn! said:


> If change isn't
> happening, we will divorce.


So the change hasn't happened since you first caught him. And it hasn't happened in the months since you last caught him. How much more waiting around do you want to do?

If you want to stay married to him and let him keep messing around you can. But if you want a true marriage, one in which you are loved, respected, and fidelity is maintained, you have to divorce him and find someone who will give you those things. He can't do it. He won't do it. He may genuinely love you but his love does NOT include fidelity, respect, honesty, or intimacy. Which is often what people call a "friendship" and not a marriage which is probably where that chemistry comes from. It's no longer romantic chemistry if it's not leading to romantic results. If he was capable of giving you what you want, he would have done it by now.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

If he's cake eating then the OP may as well be Betty Crocker....


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## Landofblue (May 28, 2019)

When does he leave. Can you find any hotel reservations in the location his e-ticket is for?

Can you go with him? Make time at work to go there with him? Either with his knowledge or just show up?

Is the location of the Eticket near the location of the hotel reservation?


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## New Dawn! (Nov 21, 2020)

nekonamida said:


> So the change hasn't happened since you first caught him. And it hasn't happened in the months since you last caught him. How much more waiting around do you want to do?
> 
> If you want to stay married to him and let him keep messing around you can. But if you want a true marriage, one in which you are loved, respected, and fidelity is maintained, you have to divorce him and find someone who will give you those things. He can't do it. He won't do it. He may genuinely love you but his love does NOT include fidelity, respect, honesty, or intimacy. Which is often what people call a "friendship" and not a marriage which is probably where that chemistry comes from. It's no longer romantic chemistry if it's not leading to romantic results. If he was capable of giving you what you want, he would have done it by now.


I think that's reasonable analysis and I thank you for it. He always maintains that he loves me but I would say to him that I'm not into polygamy. We are more like good room mates and that's because there is no sexual intimacy. There is no way that I would allow sexual intimacy with him (even if he could) while was involved with other ppl. That's what I call tolerating his affairs. Cutting all physical touching with him to the point where I do not even allow him to hold my hand keeps me peaceful. We are in fact separated although we live in the same house so I really don't feel abused the way I should. 

I know that he would like to change. He says that what he has done comes from a place of selfishness and that's all he needs to focus on and there is no therapy that can help him with that. But...I'm driving his vehicle while he is overseas and in the glove compartment, neatly hidden at the back I found receipts for counselling services from the family counsellor we had seen when I discovered the 'first' affair. To my mind that counsellor was not effective and the program wasn't great. But he went back for counselling some years later unknown to me. Obviously it didn't work. 

When I think of divorce I don't do so with thoughts of finding a man who will love me properly. I don't mean to offend any of the men here but I think that finding an emotionally healthy man, who is free of addictions, financially stable, kind, faithful morally grounded and committed to sacrificial love in order to properly maintain his relationship would be a long shot.

I wouldn't be looking for perfection because I'm not perfect neither, but to even find the foundational basics for a happy relationship/marriage would be difficult. 

My guess is that it's about one in every hundred women who divorced, especially at my age (I'm in my 50's) who were able to find that kind of man. And when you add sexual ability to it...more older men actually have ED than we think. 

So when I do a cost benefit analysis to divorcing here is what I come up with. In a divorce - 1) I lose out big time financially, 2) my adult children lose financially too. There is real estate, cash, etc which we have accumulated for them which we may not be able to give them any more because we may now need it for ourselves individually, This economy has not been kind to them that's why we want to give them a good start. 3) I lose everything else my husband has to offer, and that is plenty 4) I end up alone for the rest of my life. Living alone is no fun, especially if your health is not optimal as is the case with most old folk. 

The pros of divorce 1) I get rid of having having to wonder if my husband will change 2) I disallow him from having women while still 'married'. That's basically it folk. I've said it here that I am happy outside of my marriage. 

I can't say that I will get rid of the hurt and pain and anguish because I have none, since we live as if separated, as room mates that support each other. Neither can I say that I will regain my dignity because I did that when I stopped him from touching me. 

But ...I can say that I would give myself the chance to find a wonderful man...but that's a one in a hundred chance. I know the devil I have but I don't know the devil I could get. 

So here is what would make the most sense...for him to change his behaviour so that we could reconcile. But I understand that that's probably a one in a hundred chance too. If he could change I would have a really great husband. I know that he wants to...but he is not getting the right help. I do not hate him neither do I have bitterness nor animosity towards him. I believe that his last spate of affairs could have been due to me cutting myself off emotionally from him and cutting all physical touching. He can't survive that and I really don't care where he went/goes to get it. 

But I think that he's learned a lesson. He can't have me and other women too. He doesn't really have me. He knows that. It's on paper (marriage certificate) but I'm not here. I'm his good room mate. 

He says he wants me back. He wants romantic love with me, he wants us to start to spend time together again, he wants to start with a monthly date night and build from there, he wants us to enjoy grandchildren together (first one is in its way) he wants to be here if I should get sick, he wants, he wants he wants....but he knows the rules now. He can't have his cake and eat it too.

This room mate state can't last forever. I won't allow it any way. And because I don't hate him, if he could do the work for lasting change, I would reconcile. 

I'm not in love with him anymore but I know that the flame is not completely dead. It can be rekindled with time and the correct behaviour. But If he can't do the work then the obvious choice would be to let it go. Have a great day everybody.😊


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

New Dawn! said:


> I think that's reasonable analysis and I thank you for it. He always maintains that he loves me but I would say to him that I'm not into polygamy. We are more like good room mates and that's because there is no sexual intimacy. There is no way that I would allow sexual intimacy with him (even if he could) while was involved with other ppl. That's what I call tolerating his affairs. Cutting all physical touching with him to the point where I do not even allow him to hold my hand keeps me peaceful. We are in fact separated although we live in the same house so I really don't feel abused the way I should.
> 
> I know that he would like to change. He says that what he has done comes from a place of selfishness and that's all he needs to focus on and there is no therapy that can help him with that. But...I'm driving his vehicle while he is overseas and in the glove compartment, neatly hidden at the back I found receipts for counselling services from the family counsellor we had seen when I discovered the 'first' affair. To my mind that counsellor was not effective and the program wasn't great. But he went back for counselling some years later unknown to me. Obviously it didn't work.
> 
> ...


I guess I don't understand why you are even here. You seem to have completely come to terms with the fact that you just have a roommate.

What is really happening is that you are addicted to "hopeium". You just know that someday he will stop cheating and fall hopelessly back in love with you and all will be good. Only problem is there are decades of a track record that says otherwise and in reality he is just stringing you along. He has no need to touch you when you just let him find other women, and yes you are allowing it. Your words say you don't approve, but your actions give him permission. He has never had any real consequences for his actions.

I think you are selling yourself short by thinking there is no one out there for you. I think you are quite wrong. I bet you would be able to find a man that loves and cares for you, satisfies you sexually and is capable of being faithful. Your husband has made you so synical that you just accept this as you lot in life.

If you are happy living with an impotent, yet philandering, "husband" that you will forever be wondering who he is trying to get it up for everytime you aren't near him, then keep rolling with it.


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## nekonamida (Feb 21, 2017)

New Dawn! said:


> My guess is that it's about one in every hundred women who divorced, especially at my age (I'm in my 50's) who were able to find that kind of man. And when you add sexual ability to it...more older men actually have ED than we think.


Nope. Totally bogus. Unsupported by data. All of the issues about things you've built up for the kids can actually be handled legally through living wills or an agreement in the divorce to keep those assets and estates separate for them. You don't lose assets just because you petition for a divorce unless your spouse wants to sell them. Actually, an uncontested divorce is not expensive and you've be looking at it costing in the low thousands as long as he agreed to it. If you took some time and spoke to a lawyer, you would at least have a better idea of what it would look like and why it's not as devastating as you seem to think.

Have you ever stopped and thought that you have this incredibly bleak view of your future because you're justifying staying? That maybe it's something you tell yourself in order to keep you stuck? You're operating from a place of fear so you're making a judgement based on worse case scenario but it's not what usually happens to people who divorce. Even those older than you.



New Dawn! said:


> So here is what would make the most sense...for him to change his behaviour so that we could reconcile. But I understand that that's probably a one in a hundred chance too. If he could change I would have a really great husband. I know that he wants to...but he is not getting the right help. I do not hate him neither do I have bitterness nor animosity towards him. I believe that his last spate of affairs could have been due to me cutting myself off emotionally from him and cutting all physical touching. He can't survive that and I really don't care where he went/goes to get it.


I'd say it's a 0% chance. At least a lot lower than you finding a better partner in your 50s.

But honestly, living alone is not lonely as long as you're a happy, healthy person with a decent support group. Obviously this long term situation has done a number on you so the prospect of being alone with yourself is terrifying. People in your situation often describe themselves as becoming a shell of who they once were. Of course you don't feel like you can do it alone. 

If you're not going to leave him the least you can do is separate your life from his as much as possible. Make the in-house separation to him clear. Don't share a bedroom. Stop doing all wifely duties for him. He can do his own laundry, cooking, and cleaning. Spend more time with friends and family. Get more hobbies. Get out more. Hell, date if you want to. Why not? As long as you're honest with them. You are roommates, right? Start acting like it.

If you choose not to change anything about what you are doing, expect this to be the next 30+ years of your life. Expect more DDays. Expect that he could choose to leave for this OW or the next. Expect feeling MORE scared and alone as time goes on your relationship continues to disintegrate. There is no happy ending for people who stay with a serial cheater who is still cheating.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

You keep making your decision based on HIM. CHANGING. He isn’t going to change! This IS who he is! 

IF you want change - it’s must come only FROM YOU!

You keep waiting on his change? Nothing will change! 

YOYR decisions are what will shape/determine your future!

What are you afraid of? Be honest.


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## New Dawn! (Nov 21, 2020)

nekonamida said:


> Nope. Totally bogus. Unsupported by data. All of the issues about things you've built up for the kids can actually be handled legally through living wills or an agreement in the divorce to keep those assets and estates separate for them. You don't lose assets just because you petition for a divorce unless your spouse wants to sell them. Actually, an uncontested divorce is not expensive and you've be looking at it costing in the low thousands as long as he agreed to it. If you took some time and spoke to a lawyer, you would at least have a better idea of what it would look like and why it's not as devastating as you seem to think.
> 
> Have you ever stopped and thought that you have this incredibly bleak view of your future because you're justifying staying? That maybe it's something you tell yourself in order to keep you stuck? You're operating from a place of fear so you're making a judgement based on worse case scenario but it's not what usually happens to people who divorce. Even those older than you.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your response. All the women I know who divorced in their 50's and all but one who divorced in their 40's have remained unmarried...and are mostly without partners. Some of that may be their own choice but I live in a country where the population is only 286 thousand so finding a good unmarried man in my age range would not be that easy. 

There is a reason why the divorce rate in second marriages is higher. Most ppl don't operate well in marriage. Most don't understand that married love has to be sacrificial.

In any country, men in their 50's and 60's are looking for women in their 40's and 30's and even 20's. It is the 75 / 80 year olds who may be looking for women in their 50's... I don't want to be dating my father. 

I know that the law can protect my children's inheritance. It is what we want to give them NOW that's at risk. Let's say for example we had cash of $200k set aside for them to help them with down payments on homes, our home was worth $750k and it costs $500k to buy a decent new house. When we split the proceeds from the house sale and each of us ends up with $375k we would need to use the funds we had for the children to help with purchasing new houses for ourselves. 

I agree with you that I need to make the separation more distinct. I've been looking at moving out before he gets back from his trip as well. He's said that he's not leaving home again but I know that he wouldn't want me out there so we would soon flip where he's out and I'm back in our home. Maybe in that type of separation he would consider getting the therapy that he needs, or maybe not and we would get divorced. 

Time will tell it all and either way I will try and take care of me and my pysche because it's all potentially very stressful. So massage parlour, the beach, spas, nice restaurants....here I come!


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Why would you move out? Tell him not to come home!

And who cares if there isn’t many single men in your area! I would think your H will still “act as if” you two are still together at least for a while.

And money YOU have earned and saved? That should be used for you and your husband! Your kids (when they get old enough) should be capable of earning their own money!

If you bear all the “uncomfortable changes” that will come your way - you can hat consequences does your H get for the fact that he’s cheated on you most of your marriage? 

No, do not move - have HIM move! It’s your easy attitude about this whole situation that’s kept him cheating all these years without consequences. So start getting tough ON HIM!


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

New Dawn! said:


> Thanks for your response. All the women I know who divorced in their 50's and all but one who divorced in their 40's have remained unmarried...and are mostly without partners. Some of that may be their own choice, but I live in a country where the population is only 286 thousand so finding a good unmarried man in my age range would not be that easy.
> 
> There is a reason why the divorce rate in second marriages is higher. Most ppl don't operate well in marriage. Most don't understand that married love has to be sacrificial.
> 
> ...


I understand. 

Usually, I would never support anything like this, but location and culture matters. The Caribbean men are accustomed to this wayward lifestyle being acceptable because too many women are ok with sharing a man. Hopefully, that changes eventually since there are increasing numbers of women operating like that now and they don't like the tables being turned.

Unfortunately, that does not help older women now, so I get what you're saying. My mom chose not to remarry or even bother with relationships again because the only men she met who were interested in her were married. She was not interested in being a homewrecker. I also had many married men proposition me there, including some supposedly upstanding ones, so I understand very well the slim pickings of men who could meet your standards.

I won't lie, I entertained the thought of staying with my ex for the same reasons, but I felt at 40 (42 now), I was too young to give up the idea of real love and companionship, and don't care to cheat, so I had no choice. If you can live with your conscience having side relationships while he has his, it's your choice. 

However, be cautioned, that might embolden him to be more flagrant with his behavior. If your family and friends don't already know what he's up to, they might soon and you might have more unpleasant experiences coming your way.


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## New Dawn! (Nov 21, 2020)

Beach123 said:


> Why would you move out? Tell him not to come home!
> 
> And who cares if there isn’t many single men in your area! I would think your H will still “act as if” you two are still together at least for a while.
> 
> ...


Well see, I can't make him move. When I visited the lawyer last December she said that under our country's law we must separate for a full 12months before we can file for a divorce. She said that we can either live in separate houses or we can live in the same house as long as we don't share the same bedroom, and don't do anything for each other. I felt that the former was easier to do plus we don't have a spare bedroom at present. So I asked him to move out. 

He said that he's not moving out because he wants to stay and work on our marriage, and if I don't want to work on it, I can move out but he's not going anywhere. 

My children are in their twenties and are well educated but have not yet found the types of jobs they were educated to do. They have had to accept low paying jobs and even so intermittent and unstable ones which have been further impacted by Covid. So we want to help them. 

I do agree with you that I consider too many things but that's just me. I'll get it right eventually tho. Thanks.


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## New Dawn! (Nov 21, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> I understand.
> 
> Usually, I would never support anything like this, but location and culture matters. The Caribbean men are accustomed to this wayward lifestyle being acceptable because too many women are ok with sharing a man. Hopefully, that changes eventually since there are increasing numbers of women operating like that now and they don't like the tables being turned.
> 
> ...


At age 40 you were right to give yourself a chance at love. I hope that you have found someone who you deserve, long term. Proud of you for stepping out. 

All my aunts, my mother and grandmothers had relationships/marriages with irresponsible, mostly cheating men. Even the ones who live overseas. None of them found love again. I'm not saying that it's a reason to stay with an abusive man. I'm just saying that when women are considering leaving the marriage they should not do so thinking that they will necessarily find a good man to replace their husbands.

Instead they should focus on living happy alone and then if a good man comes along let that be a bonus, or they could become severely disappointed.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

New Dawn! said:


> Well see, I can't make him move. When I visited the lawyer last December she said that under our country's law we must separate for a full 12months before we can file for a divorce. She said that we can either live in separate houses or we can live in the same house as long as we don't share the same bedroom, and don't do anything for each other. I felt that the former was easier to do plus we don't have a spare bedroom at present. So I asked him to move out.
> 
> He said that he's not moving out because he wants to stay and work on our marriage, and if I don't want to work on it, I can move out but he's not going anywhere.
> 
> ...


So you don't have to actually move out of the house, you can just move into the spare bedroom and stop doing anything for him and that would meet the requirement to be called separation? If so, that seems like the way to go. If nothing else I think you have to start the process towards divorce, even if in the end you don't go through with it. He will never ever change if he thinks he can keep you around. You have to be serious about moving on if he can't get his act together.


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## New Dawn! (Nov 21, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> So you don't have to actually move out of the house, you can just move into the spare bedroom and stop doing anything for him and that would meet the requirement to be called separation? If so, that seems like the way to go. If nothing else I think you have to start the process towards divorce, even if in the end you don't go through with it. He will never ever change if he thinks he can keep you around. You have to be serious about moving on if he can't get his act together.


Yes we can live in the same house and still meet the requirement. We don't have a spare bedroom and even if we did I think that living under those conditions would be too stressful for me.

You are quite right that I should start the process. I am actively looking for housing to move into by this weekend because I want to be gone by the time he gets back from his little trip. This will be my start and I'll see where it leads. I've never done anything like this before so this will be a big deal for him.


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## Landofblue (May 28, 2019)

So do you know what country he is in? Do you know if the AP is with him? Have you tried calling the hotel in the reservation you saw and asking for him?


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## Pip’sJourney (Mar 17, 2021)

I am all for you getting free. I would call him at the hotel after securing and moving out.. just tell him you know and you are done...period. We are rooting for your independence and happiness.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

New Dawn! said:


> At age 40 you were right to give yourself a chance at love. I hope that you have found someone who you deserve, long term. Proud of you for stepping out.
> 
> All my aunts, my mother and grandmothers had relationships/marriages with irresponsible, mostly cheating men. Even the ones who live overseas. None of them found love again. I'm not saying that it's a reason to stay with an abusive man. I'm just saying that when women are considering leaving the marriage they should not do so thinking that they will necessarily find a good man to replace their husbands.
> 
> Instead they should focus on living happy alone and then if a good man comes along let that be a bonus, or they could become severely disappointed.


Thanks, hon. I'd already given up on being happy in my 30's, and was very depressed about it. You can read my thread if you want some time, I won't clutter yours. I just wanted you to know, I truly understand where you're coming from and empathize with you.

I did meet someone, things are going well, but I am slow to trust, especially after what I lived for so long. He's been patient, kind and understanding. He knows that I can't be rushed if he wants a future with me. So far so good, but I'm working my way to whatever the future holds and trying really hard not to let fear paralyze me again.

You sound proactive and hopefully, I know you'll be ok.


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## New Dawn! (Nov 21, 2020)

Landofblue said:


> So do you know what country he is in? Do you know if the AP is with him? Have you tried calling the hotel in the reservation you saw and asking for him?


 Oh yes. He left on Sunday and by Monday morning I had confirmed that he had faked it all. While I had him on a video call I called the number for the hotel he said he was staying at. He even gave me a room number. For some reason I got a voice message saying that the number was temporarily out of service. So he thought he had me. 

I then asked him to walk around the room and show me video of the interior. It was exactly like the place I had discovered that he was supposed to be staying. The dining table and chairs were exactly like shown on the website. Fancy and distinct. Very nice condo. 

When I told him exactly where he was staying he was visibly in shock and could not deny it any more. 

He is in an emotional mess at present. He cannot enjoy any of it. He wants to get back home ASAP. I've made the mistake of hinting that I won't be here and now he is begging me not to leave before he gets back. So he is due back on Sunday, with a local overnight stay(Covid protocol)he would be back at the house on Monday. But I know that if he could find a way to get back here before he would. So I am busy searching for a place to move into by tomorrow or Friday. 

He says that he was in some residual mess with her and that's why he had to go there to clean it up. Said he would explain once he gets back. I really don't care what the reason was nor if that's the truth. It doesn't matter. He lied either way and this time...there will be big consequences.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Please wait until I get home so I can fake cry and ******** some more.

I predict suicide threats are coming.

This would be laughable if it wasn't so sad.

You have an open marriage. Either accept it or leave.


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## New Dawn! (Nov 21, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> Thanks, hon. I'd already given up on being happy in my 30's, and was very depressed about it. You can read my thread if you want some time, I won't clutter yours. I just wanted you to know, I truly understand where you're coming from and empathize with you.
> 
> I did meet someone, things are going well, but I am slow to trust, especially after what I lived for so long. He's been patient, kind and understanding. He knows that I can't be rushed if he wants a future with me. So far so good, but I'm working my way to whatever the future holds and trying really hard not to let fear paralyze me again.
> 
> You sound proactive and hopefully, I know you'll be ok.


You go girl!!! I don't know if you are spiritually minded or not but I would encourage you to go on YouTube and listen to RC Blakes. He was a cheater in his younger days but stopped that and turned pastor decades ago. He is happily married but devotes lots of time on YouTube educating women about cheaters, narcissists, how to recognise a good man, the games men play, what we should and should not do while dating etc. etc. He brings all the secrets out of school. He is like the father most of us never had. Check him out, girl! 

I wish you all the best and I truly hope that you are blessed with true and lasting love. I will keep you in my prayers.


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## nekonamida (Feb 21, 2017)

New Dawn! said:


> He says that he was in some residual mess with her and that's why he had to go there to clean it up. Said he would explain once he gets back. I really don't care what the reason was nor if that's the truth. It doesn't matter. He lied either way and this time...there will be big consequences.


Oh sure and that's why he spent all that money on a fancy condo for their romantic getaway when a Holiday Inn could have sufficed. Don't believe him. In fact don't believe that he didn't still see her while there without proof. If whatever was going on was something he can drop now at a moment's notice, he could have never gone through with it in the first place. He went because he wanted to see her again and didn't care what the outfall could do to you. He's only sorry now that he's been caught red handed.

I'm relieved to see that you are looking to move out and make it crystal clear that you will not stay if he continues.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Stay at a hotel for a week if you need to - until you secure a place to move into.
He is a liar. No one would take that much time away from family and that kind of expense if the relationship had ended.

For your best interest - make sure you have half of the combined assets moved to your name only! Don’t think there is any reason to see him in person any time soon!


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

New Dawn! said:


> Oh yes. He left on Sunday and by Monday morning I had confirmed that he had faked it all. While I had him on a video call I called the number for the hotel he said he was staying at. He even gave me a room number. For some reason I got a voice message saying that the number was temporarily out of service. So he thought he had me.
> 
> I then asked him to walk around the room and show me video of the interior. It was exactly like the place I had discovered that he was supposed to be staying. The dining table and chairs were exactly like shown on the website. Fancy and distinct. Very nice condo.
> 
> ...


Wow! What a mess! Don't fall, for those crocodile tears or be moved to comfort him!

These Fukers can't even be original, they ALL have the same pathetic playbook.

GTFO dodge and don't look back! What a class A Asshole. You don't need this worm for anything. Good luck finding a home! 

Can I PM you?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> Serials don’t change — ever.


_cough_


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## New Dawn! (Nov 21, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> Wow! What a mess! Don't fall, for those crocodile tears or be moved to comfort him!
> 
> These Fukers can't even be original, they ALL have the same pathetic playbook.
> 
> ...


Lol. Forgive me for laughing but your post was so funny! Girl this is time consuming. I've been checking listings all day. Sure you can PM me.


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## New Dawn! (Nov 21, 2020)

H


lifeistooshort said:


> Please wait until I get home so I can fake cry and ****** some more.
> 
> I predict suicide threats are coming.
> 
> ...


He's not one to get emotionally dramatic. So if he tries I would know just fake it is..but he says that he's hit rock bottom and doesn't know how to get back up (no pun intended!), 🤭


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

On no, sorry to hear.

Once the tears and rock-bottom story doesn’t move you, the rage will come. There’s a 3 stage-cycle, it’s the calm during the lying, the desperation and crying (when consequences are coming or they aren’t able to indulge in their behaviour) and the final stage is rage when the big story of pain hasn’t worked.

So he’s not actually at rock-bottom. You’re just in his way and ruining his fun - entitlement.

This is a common scenario with alcoholics and drug addicts who are at the last stages of perhaps losing their home, being arrested, needing a place to stay, or needing money for more of their substance. They need something from you to be able to keep doing what they’re doing. (He needs you to simply shut up and comply).

The next stage (if you really do follow through with leaving) will be a heightened escalation of stage 2. Sad tales of how he knows he has a problem, excuses, victimhood and then promises. Maybe later, suicide threats, can’t live without you, even actual attempts at self harming - none of these are serious enough to really make a dent. (If this happens, you simply send an ambulance - don’t rescue him, leave it to the professionals).

If you continue to follow through with leaving, and stage 2 hasn’t worked, be prepared for the rage and insults and revenge to come. Again, usually harmless and just another set of empty words (usually). Many of them won’t act out the threats, just another weapon to use so that they get to keep doing what they’re doing. You’re simply in their way and they want to go back to doing what they always did.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Have you found a place yet?


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

And when he says anything… remind him that his decisions and actions have created the whole mess! Make sure and put it back on him!


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## New Dawn! (Nov 21, 2020)

Luckylucky said:


> On no, sorry to hear.
> 
> Once the tears and rock-bottom story doesn’t move you, the rage will come. There’s a 3 stage-cycle, it’s the calm during the lying, the desperation and crying (when consequences are coming or they aren’t able to indulge in their behaviour) and the final stage is rage when the big story of pain hasn’t worked.
> 
> ...


Wow. That is some insightful stuff right there. I am totally uneducated about this kind of thing Any recommended reading in it?
I will definitely watch out for these stages in his response. Thanks so much!


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Your best plan should be “don’t communicate with him at all unless there’s an extreme hospital emergency.”

What’s your plan?


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## New Dawn! (Nov 21, 2020)

Beach123 said:


> Have you found a place yet?


Yes. I found a lovely affordable place yesterday. Newly built and beautifully furnished. It's really a nice oasis where I feel I could clear my head and enjoy my own company. I'm moving in this weekend.


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## New Dawn! (Nov 21, 2020)

Thanks for your advice. I don't have a real plan about communication yet other than I don't want to see him face to face. But based on what you are advising I may have made the first mistake, because we spoke on WhatsApp last night. 😐

It's the first time we spoke since I confronted him on Monday morning. I told him I was leaving this weekend. He is hurt and disappointed that I took action before he returned, because of course he would have wanted to be able talk me out of it. Now he is concerned about who else knows, who have I told, what I told our adult children, what I will tell my mother, etc. etc. 

Our children obvious know that he's been unfaithful but I never told my mother and siblings. They all think he is a saint. 

Me moving out is hitting him hard and for the first time ever he is asking about therapy. He is asking me what I think he needs to do so that he is never unfaithful again. He is asking me who I think is the best Therapist on the island. I don't have those answers. I suggested online therapy because I don't have confidence in our local therapists. 

Does anyone here have experience with online therapy? Do you know of anyone who has gotten lasting help with changing their cheating behaviour through therapy? Thanks.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

It’s really very easy for him to find one himself.

Don’t do this for him. Or tell him what he needs in terms of how to help himself. He shouldn’t be asking you, he should have already booked the appointment! 

He can find the best hotel for his dalliances, so he can find the best therapist the way he found everything else he needed.

We hurt our finger, we go the doctor.

If you get sucked in when he asks for help, and you probably will revert to your helping habits, a good tactic is to suddenly be called away - oh sorry, I have to call you back. And you end the call and you don’t call back. Any time the conversation is him asking something of you, you suddenly have another call, or you have a visitor, and ‘Sorry I have to go, I’ll call you back.


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## New Dawn! (Nov 21, 2020)

Luckylucky said:


> It’s really very easy for him to find one himself.
> 
> Don’t do this for him. Or tell him what he needs in terms of how to help himself. He shouldn’t be asking you, he should have already booked the appointment!
> 
> ...


Lol. That's funny. But I think you are making sense. I did refuse to help him last night. I bluntly told him that this is for him to research himself. 

He said 'well you are a good researcher, what have you been finding out?" I said 'I've been finding out that serial cheaters don't change'. And his response was 'anybody can change anything but I am believing now that I need a professional to help me'. Never heard him admit that.

He has to initiate this. I'm not doing it. If he asks my opinion about therapists he's researched, I may comment, as I would with any other human being, but the passion must be his. Not mine. 

Can't wait to hide away in my little lady cave and leave him to wrestle with his demons. Hallelujah, God is good!!

.


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## Willnotbill (May 13, 2021)

I wouldn't buy the "I need professional help" plea. Its easy to ask for help, apologize, etc after they've been caught. Its entirely possible that someone may need help, but its also an easy and often popular excuse to try to be forgiven by the betrayed spouse. Once a cheater has been caught I would have a hard time believing a single word out of his or her mouth. I mentioned this in another before but my ex-wife wanted us to go to counseling when she was caught cheating. I explained to her that counseling would not change the fact she cheated and it wouldn't make me forgive her or forget what she did. She said it would help her find out why she did. The "why" didn't matter to me. It was the fact she did it and that would never change.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

If counseling was ever going to help him it would have made changes by now. He’s had all these years to do the work.
The only thing you know for sure is that he knows how to cheat consistently… he’s not likely ever going to do things differently.

Too little too late.

And who cares if you never marry again! At least if you leave him you won’t be with someone who is constantly lying and disrespecting you while pretending to love you! 

Being on your own isn’t a bad thing! Learn to love yourself and know how to enjoy life on your own! It’s pretty fun!


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

New Dawn! said:


> Thanks for your advice. I don't have a real plan about communication yet other than I don't want to see him face to face. But based on what you are advising I may have made the first mistake, because we spoke on WhatsApp last night. 😐
> 
> It's the first time we spoke since I confronted him on Monday morning. I told him I was leaving this weekend. He is hurt and disappointed that I took action before he returned, because of course he would have wanted to be able talk me out of it. Now he is concerned about who else knows, who have I told, what I told our adult children, what I will tell my mother, etc. etc.
> 
> ...


Don't beat yourself up, what's done is done. However, you know better now, so carry on from here. These ladies have given you solid advice and insight. I know well how how good Caribbean men can sweet talk a woman, he'll try to put his silver tongue to use to make you change your mind about everything. 

Notice how his first thought is for himself? Who knows? Who have _you _told? What did you tell your _children and family? _No apologies, no concern for you, only his frigging self. You're the prop that makes him look respectable, and nothing more.

Like Lucky said, he knew how to book a fancy hotel to romance his wh0re, let him figure his **** out now. He's no longer your problem. If you cave on this, you are accepting the responsibility for his behavior, he's blameshifting and trying to draw you back in to be part of team "Fix It". He forget he's Mr. ****itall. 


New Dawn! said:


> Lol. That's funny. But I think you are making sense. I did refuse to help him last night. I bluntly told him that this is for him to research himself.
> 
> He said 'well you are a good researcher, what have you been finding out?" I said 'I've been finding out that serial cheaters don't change'. And his response was 'anybody can change anything but I am believing now that I need a professional to help me'. Never heard him admit that.
> 
> ...


Not your problem... He has to fix himself, IF he's even up to it. 

Most people never change, serial cheaters certainly don't. His whole pattern is looking externally for something to make him feel good, not making his own sorry ass feel good about himself. 

He needs constant external validation, you need to hold his hand, wipe his ass and tell him what a good boy he is every step of the way. I understand exactly how you feel, you need to kill that instinct to help and nurture. I started out trying too, you know what I got for it? Utter humiliation, when he told me point-blank in front of the therapist he had no intentions of stopping. 

I don't want that for you, you're so much better than that. Let him sink into hell if he chooses, while you finally get peace. Stay strong, you're doing really well! Don't worry about being/doing everything perfectly, you're only human.


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## New Dawn! (Nov 21, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> Don't beat yourself up, what's done is done. However, you know better now, so carry on from here. These ladies have given you solid advice and insight. I know well how how good Caribbean men can sweet talk a woman, he'll try to put his silver tongue to use to make you change your mind about everything.
> 
> Notice how his first thought is for himself? Who knows? Who have _you _told? What did you tell your _children and family? _No apologies, no concern for you, only his frigging self. You're the prop that makes him look respectable, and nothing more.
> 
> ...


Well thank you for that. That's some good strong perspective. He really does have a silver tongue. That's why women love him.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

New Dawn! said:


> Well thank you for that. That's some good strong perspective. He really does have a silver tongue. That's why women love him.


Picture where that tongue has been if you need resolve. You're truly doing well, stay strong!


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## New Dawn! (Nov 21, 2020)

Willnotbill said:


> I wouldn't buy the "I need professional help" plea. Its easy to ask for help, apologize, etc after they've been caught. Its entirely possible that someone may need help, but its also an easy and often popular excuse to try to be forgiven by the betrayed spouse. Once a cheater has been caught I would have a hard time believing a single word out of his or her mouth. I mentioned this in another before but my ex-wife wanted us to go to counseling when she was caught cheating. I explained to her that counseling would not change the fact she cheated and it wouldn't make me forgive her or forget what she did. She said it would help her find out why she did. The "why" didn't matter to me. It was the fact she did it and that would never change.


I totally agree that the counselling can't change the past. There is no pain like that of a betrayed partner. We all hurt badly but we all process it differently. Some pack up and leave after the first betrayal, some after the second, some later on, some never. It's as individual as the couples themselves.

Likewise, some never find it possible to forgive the spouse who betrayed them, even long after the divorce. I've learned that it is better for me to forgive although I don't think that forgiveness necessarily means that one should reconcile. But it is better for my mental health.

I know that It is difficult to do when memories are raw and you are obsessing over imagining your spouse in bed with another.

Not everyone has the temperament for it but some people, in some marriages, can get past the hurt and pain, eventually forgive, and if their spouse is genuinely willing to do what ever it takes to rebuild and save the marriage and family, then they can work with them to rebuild as well. I happen to be one of those. And if therapy/counselling can help. I would embrace that.

There is no right or wrong about it in principle. Different ppl, different marriages. That's all.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Your family may blame you and still think he’s a saint. Be prepared for them to take his side, and for him to play divide and conquer. Your family may turn on you and support him. Bicker with you, and do his dirty work. He will enlist all the help he can to fill the role you once held - the fixer. Now is not the time to argue with your family or children. Apply the same technique as you do when he needs help: any time a conversation takes a turn that you don’t like, you delay it, end it, or if that’s not possible, change the subject. Every time. 

You will also find that some people may rush to your aid. Be smart, and wary of anyone bending over backwards to help you. You are soon going to be in a difficult situation and find that people will be there to help and listen. And then go right back to his side afterwards. Many people are going to rush to your aid, but remember, many of them are there to watch you fall further down.

They say you should remember the friends who helped you in your dark times. But watch closely and carefully see who the friends are that support you at your best. Now you are at your best.

He hasn’t said the words, ‘This is what I’ve done to help myself’ or most importantly, show joy for how good you must be feeling.


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## New Dawn! (Nov 21, 2020)

I am truly grateful for this advice. I will keep my eyes and ears open. This is brand new territory for me so I appreciate all the heads up. Blessings.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

New Dawn! said:


> I totally agree that the counselling can't change the past. There is no pain like that of a betrayed partner. We all hurt badly but we all process it differently. Some pack up and leave after the first betrayal, some after the second, some later on, some never. It's as individual as the couples themselves.
> 
> Likewise, some never find it possible to forgive the spouse who betrayed them, even long after the divorce. I've learned that it is better for me to forgive although I don't think that forgiveness necessarily means that one should reconcile. But it is better for my mental health.
> 
> ...


I've found that with my ex, who kept an ex around our entire relationship, I don't forgive him. As far as I'm concerned he can **** off and I don't like him as a human being.

But I also recognize that like everyone he has his own demons and didn't necessarily act maliciously, so I don't walk around angry.

And I truly wish him well. I just want nothing to do with him and his lies and gaslighting.

Maybe it depends on your definition of forgiveness.


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## New Dawn! (Nov 21, 2020)

lifeistooshort said:


> I've found that with my ex, who kept an ex around our entire relationship, I don't forgive him. As far as I'm concerned he can **** off and I don't like him as a human being.
> 
> But I also recognize that like everyone he has his own demons and didn't necessarily act maliciously, so I don't walk around angry.
> 
> ...


I'm glad that you are no longer walking around angry about it and seemingly found your peace. For me, forgiving someone means that I no longer bear ill feelings towards them because of what they have done to me. It does not mean that what they did is suddenly no longer bad, but it just means that my response towards them concerning that thing is no longer one of anger, bitterness, resentment..etc..etc. 

Depending on what the offense was it may mean that it is no longer safe nor sensible to continue to keep company with that person. And it does not necessarily mean that the person deserves forgiveness nor even desires it. The forgiveness is for you, not them. It is for your peace and mental health. 

On discovering my H's 'first' affair I didn't think that I could ever forgive him. It was my first real experience with anger and bitterness. But with intention I did, after maybe about 2 or 3 years. It's a process and it takes time. You can't force it but the results are rewarding.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

New Dawn you have done a great job in a bad situation. 

I really hope God sends a good and loving man into your new life.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

How'd the move go? Are you moved all into your new place?


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## New Dawn! (Nov 21, 2020)

Anastasia6 said:


> How'd the move go? Are you moved all into your new place?


It's going well. I moved my 'office' last night and l'm almost done packing all the other stuff. So much to pack! But I'll be gone in a few hours. Thanks! And thanks for your kind words.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Did you get everything moved? 

How is your new place?

Hope you are doing ok.


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## New Dawn! (Nov 21, 2020)

I sure did..it's been a long day but I'm here. It's nice and comfortable, so far. My H is very concerned about me moving. Yesterday he messaged me to request a conversation before the move to make sure that this is what I want to do. 

He says that's it's not fair that I'm the one who is moving when he is the offender(and I agree with that) plus he is concerned about my safety. So he wanted to discuss me staying home while he moves out instead. 

But I didn't allow that conversation. I need to get away. If we choose to switch later on well so be it but at this juncture I need this space for myself. He wants me to send a pin so that he can assess the apt./area. I told him that I could do that but I don't want any visitors and he agreed to that. 

If I know him he would sleep outside this apartment at night, just to make sure I'm safe. I can say that for him. It is unfortunate that he hasn't taken care of my emotional safety in the same manner


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

What a fool he has been.

All he has to do was to love and be only with you.

I am starting to wonder if young men in your country are encouraged to have a mistress. Told that everyone has one.


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## Landofblue (May 28, 2019)

Had he returned? Did he try to give you his “explanation “??


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## New Dawn! (Nov 21, 2020)

ABHale said:


> What a fool he has been.
> 
> All he has to do was to love and be only with you.
> 
> I am starting to wonder if young men in your country are encouraged to have a mistress. Told that everyone has one.


Yes that was all he had to do! There is a cultural element to infidelity here, where men are concerned. But it is less accepted now that women are as strong as they are financially. But it seems to me that infidelity is rampant everywhere and in every country in the western world. It may simply be more covert in some countries. Also everywhere, it would seem that men have a harder time dealing with the betrayal than women. 

In my country it is not uncommon for men to commit suicide over that, especially where women leave them for another. Yeah, they will burn the house down, and they have. 😒


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## New Dawn! (Nov 21, 2020)

Landofblue said:


> Had he returned? Did he try to give you his “explanation “??


Yeah, he's back and we've spoken briefly but I'm really not interested in having a conversation about it..nor about anything really.


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