# Really Need Help



## Scooter13 (Sep 24, 2014)

This is the first time I have ever been in a forum like this. I feel lost right now. My wife and I have been married for 14 years. In 2009 we lost our 5 year old son in a tragic accident. I would say that our marriage has been in shambles for roughly three years now. We have nothing in common, don't have fun when we go out together and really have no physical relationship at all. I have been going through the motions for three years for the sake of my other two children. I am at a point now where depression has taken over my life. I am so unhappy in my marriage that it affects everything I do. Fear seems to be the only thing keeping me here. Fear of hurting people, letting people down, hurting my kids etc. Last week I finally told my wife how I felt. I told her that I had fallen out of love with her. It has been hell since then. She claims to be in love with me, but her actions the past three years prove otherwise. She has not shown affection at all. I feel like we just drifted apart. Everybody keeps telling me that I can get the love back and fall in love again. Quite frankly I am tired of hearing that. I just want this all to be over with. I am checked out and emotionally drained.


----------



## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

How was the grief and trauma of losing your son handled? My first thought is that one or both of you haven't healed from that time, and it's spilled over into your relationship. 

Have you looked at individual or marriage counseling?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Have the two of you attended grief or marriage counseling together? It really does sound like you'd benefit from it.

My condolences on your loss...


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

I truly believe love can be found again. It needs two participants to do so. If you are checked out it makes it difficult. If you want it to be over with what is keeping you back? Kids. These people are still your responsibility married or not. I recommend IC for you. MC for both. Sorry for the loss of a child.


----------



## Scooter13 (Sep 24, 2014)

We have always been very different people, however it worked. The loss of our son has changed everything and we are both very different people now. I have never been depressed a day in my life until we lost our son. I found out quickly how real depression is. Unfortunately now I feel like I have that under control. I am sad every day that my son is gone, but I feel more depressed with my marriage. I don't think we ever had a great marriage, but I never thought of divorce until the past three years. I am scared by the fact that I am no longer physically attracted to her. It is not for physical reasons, my wife if beautiful but for me I have no feeling of attraction anymore. There may be some issues on my end with how our son passed, but I truly feel like I am not in love with her any longer.


----------



## Scooter13 (Sep 24, 2014)

Thank you for the condolences. Obviously this has been a horrible life changing event. I did spend two years in grief counseling and so did my wife. We do not go together, but the counseling did help me heal somewhat. She was also able to get me on anti-depressants which may have saved my life. We are scheduled for MC tomorrow, but I don't know if I want to go. I know I would have be all in to make this work and I do not feel all in. My kids are keeping me here along with guilt. I take my vows very seriously and I said for better or worse. I know in my heart that I cannot be truly happy again in this marriage.


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Scooter13 said:


> We have always been very different people, however it worked. The loss of our son has changed everything and we are both very different people now. I have never been depressed a day in my life until we lost our son. I found out quickly how real depression is. Unfortunately now I feel like I have that under control. I am sad every day that my son is gone, but I feel more depressed with my marriage. I don't think we ever had a great marriage, but I never thought of divorce until the past three years. I am scared by the fact that I am no longer physically attracted to her. It is not for physical reasons, my wife if beautiful but for me I have no feeling of attraction anymore. There may be some issues on my end with how our son passed, but I truly feel like I am not in love with her any longer.


What do you feel has brought you to this point? The not in love with your wife? What, in your mind, brought you to this point?


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Scooter13 said:


> Thank you for the condolences. Obviously this has been a horrible life changing event. I did spend two years in grief counseling and so did my wife. We do not go together, but the counseling did help me heal somewhat. She was also able to get me on anti-depressants which may have saved my life. We are scheduled for MC tomorrow, but I don't know if I want to go. I know I would have be all in to make this work and I do not feel all in. My kids are keeping me here along with guilt. I take my vows very seriously and I said for better or worse. I know in my heart that I cannot be truly happy again in this marriage.


I'm anything but a counselor but I question why grief counseling was not done with both in the room. At some point anyway. Your MC...you do not want to participate. Looks to be the same as the grief counseling. Individual participation. 

Marriage is team work in many things life throws at you. The ups and downs are shared. This is how my W and I cope. Coping alone is very hard. Having a support mechanism(H or W) helps greatly.


----------



## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Honestly (and I'm not a shrink), you sound like you're suffering from depression still. And your problems aren't going to evaporate away just because you're no longer married. IMHO. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

PBear said:


> Honestly (and I'm not a shrink), you sound like you're suffering from depression still. And your problems aren't going to evaporate away just because you're no longer married. IMHO.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


PBear is correct. D can and probably will exacerbate the already present issues.


----------



## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

What are the issues on your end with how your son passed? You mentioned that and immediately said that you don't love your wife anymore. Are the two connected?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Scooter13 (Sep 24, 2014)

I do agree that I am suffering from depression. There is no question about that. That lack of love for my wife is that lack of closeness. We lack that relationship that "Team" it takes to be friends. I feel like we are not even friends. I can't remember the last time we had fun together. I know that depression is in large part to how happy I am in my marriage. When my son passed he was on my neighbors snowmobile. I was not home. I had told her in the past to never let our kids on that machine. It was crazy fast. One day my son went for a "slow" ride on a machine with my neighbor. It was supposed to be a slow and safe ride. when he put my son in front of him my son accidentally grabbed the throttle squeezing it. The machine took off and flipped. Landed on his tiny little body crushing him I left for an hour and lost my son and best friend. That will affect me forever. I did not even get to say goodbye.


----------



## Scooter13 (Sep 24, 2014)

We also have a middle child with special needs. This also complicates things. Our oldest was very healthy, our middle has special needs and our youngest is very healthy. This also adds a ton of stress to our situation


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Scooter13 said:


> I do agree that I am suffering from depression. There is no question about that. That lack of love for my wife is that lack of closeness. We lack that relationship that "Team" it takes to be friends. I feel like we are not even friends. I can't remember the last time we had fun together. I know that depression is in large part to how happy I am in my marriage. When my son passed he was on my neighbors snowmobile. I was not home. I had told her in the past to never let our kids on that machine. It was crazy fast. One day my son went for a "slow" ride on a machine with my neighbor. It was supposed to be a slow and safe ride. when he put my son in front of him my son accidentally grabbed the throttle squeezing it. The machine took off and flipped. Landed on his tiny little body crushing him I left for an hour and lost my son and best friend. That will affect me forever. I did not even get to say goodbye.


Sorry man. That's horrible. Again, I'm not a therapist....do you somehow hold your W accountable for the accident? I would think these types of questions, when in counseling together, would be answered and heard by both. Possibly offering some closure. 

I can only imaging what you "two" are going through as a result of this accident and loss of a child. I say two as I'm certain your W has some unresolved issues with this accident?


----------



## Scooter13 (Sep 24, 2014)

Yes she no doubt has issues with what happened. I know she feels guilt which is why I would never tell her how I feel about what happened that day. As much as i want out, I do not want to hurt her. I just want to try to be happy again. I feel like we both need somebody that can make us happy. Maybe we have just been through too much. I care about her a great deal, but I have no attraction to her physically or emotionally.


----------



## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Why didn't you go to counseling together?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Scooter13 (Sep 24, 2014)

Honestly I have no idea. A lot of what happened with the grief is sort of a blur. I barley remember anything from the first year after it happened. I don't even remember who I was before it happened. My friends tell me they see the "Old" me coming back, but only when I am out without her. When we are together they see the new me which is quiet and sad. The first sign of trouble is when I realized that I was happy at times again, but only when I was out and she was not.


----------



## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

Scooter13 said:


> Honestly I have no idea. A lot of what happened with the grief is sort of a blur. I barley remember anything from the first year after it happened. I don't even remember who I was before it happened. My friends tell me they see the "Old" me coming back, but only when I am out without her. When we are together they see the new me which is quiet and sad. The first sign of trouble is when I realized that I was happy at times again, but only when I was out and she was not.


This means you two need to resolve something between you.
You both need to see a greif counselor before any more damage is done.

You can recover...but it will be work.

My sincere condolences for your loss.


----------



## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

You still blame her, but you have never been able to process that emotion because you have been holding it in like it doesn't exist. You did this because you know your wife is harder on herself than you are and you really don't want to hurt her. Am I wrong?

All this time you have been dealing with the shock and thinking it over and over again, and the thought that keeps popping into your head is that if she had just listened to you, none of this would have happened. 

Well, that thought is going to keep screaming in your head until you give it a voice and accept that it's real. You will never be able to forgive her and let this pain go while you ignore it. 

You need to tell her how you feel. And you should do it under the structure of a trained counselor who has experience with grief and trauma counseling.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

I'm usually one of the first to jump on the "abandon ship" wagon, it seems. But in your case, i think you owe it to yourself, your wife, and your kids to make a focused effort to work on the issues in your marriage and yourself. Give it one more good solid try. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Scooter13 (Sep 24, 2014)

When I really think about it maybe our relationship was not that strong to begin with. When something like this happens you would think we would rely on each other to get through. We did not. We both grieved separately and very differently. I guess this is why we didn't go to counseling together. I feel like I have been judged for how I grieve, but she can grieve any way she wants. I guess when it comes down to it I am really looking for someone to tell me it is ok to feel the way I feel. Ok to not be happy and want out. I keep hearing the opposite from family that I need to work this out for the kids. And think about the financial ramifications. I keep telling people I have thought about all of it for years and it is slowly killing me. I am just not happy and dont see how I ever could be in this relationship.


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Scooter13 said:


> Yes she no doubt has issues with what happened. I know she feels guilt which is why I would never tell her how I feel about what happened that day. As much as i want out, I do not want to hurt her. I just want to try to be happy again. I feel like we both need somebody that can make us happy. Maybe we have just been through too much. I care about her a great deal, but I have no attraction to her physically or emotionally.


 Scooter13, in your situation with the loss of a child and not being able to express your true thoughts and feelings about it to your W, I strongly believe both of you need to seek therapy *together*. Your bottled up frustration over the incident has appeared to not been resolved between you two. I do not know if anyone on this site can provide a clear path or answer for you. I can say many here will listen and be supportive as possible.


----------



## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Exactly. You will never be happy while you feel that you are somehow wrong with how you feel. It doesn't matter how you feel. You have to accept it before you can process it and get passed it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

While I think it's understandable that you feel the way you feel, I think you're doing everyone a disservice if you don't make an effort to work things out together. For many couples, the loss of a child can tear apart a relationship. But the only way to overcome the damage is to work on it together. Saying the marriage wasnt strong enough to make it worth trying to save isn't fair, IMHO. Many many many otherwise wonderful marriages would also be torn apart from that loss. And i wouldn't say those marriages weren't strong enough, but the grief was too powerful for the couple to overcome. But possibly with the right assistance, the healing can happen. 

You have to do what's right for you. I'm not going to say you're a bad guy for wanting out. I guess I'd just like to see the tragedy that's already happened be as contained in scope as possible. The loss of the marriage and the effects of that on your kids will only compound things. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Scooter13 (Sep 24, 2014)

I appreciate the you guys taking the time to give me some advice. I know you are all right because I know the anger is still there. We are such different people and it makes going through something like this tough. My son died from internal injuries, nothing related to his head. However, when he died he was not wearing his helmet. This is another issue I have. I cannot understand for the life of me why he didn't have a helmet on? He had a very nice helmet because we had a four wheeler yet he was allowed on insanely fast snowmobile without a helmet. I just can't wrap my mind around why she let the happen. Again he had no injuries to is head, but that decision still haunts me. I think I honestly came here hoping for people to tell me you are out of love, your not attracted to her you need to leave. I am 99% sure that I just need to get out and get out soon. I feel like the sooner I move forward the sooner I can move on with getting myself right. Maybe that is selfish, but I have been sad for way to long and I need to get back to being the old me. At least as close to that as possible.


----------



## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

How did your wife respond to you telling her how you felt? 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Scooter13 (Sep 24, 2014)

Not well, but she was not surprised. I think she is more afraid than anything. I think she knew it was coming. She just said actually hearing it was hard. She says she is in love with me, but I don't know if I believe her. I know for certain that I am not "In love with her". I do care about her, but I can't see myself growing old with her. part of me just wishes she would look at me and say that she is done and wants out. I think I would be relieved if I heard her say that.


----------



## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Scooter13 said:


> Not well, but she was not surprised. I think she is more afraid than anything. I think she knew it was coming. She just said actually hearing it was hard. She says she is in love with me, but I don't know if I believe her. I know for certain that I am not "In love with her". I do care about her, but I can't see myself growing old with her. part of me just wishes she would look at me and say that she is done and wants out. I think I would be relieved if I heard her say that.


Of course you'd be relieved to hear that. When I was deciding to end my marriage, I really wanted to hear my wife tell me she wanted out, or that she had an affair, or anything that would let me out without being "the bad guy". Didn't happen. If you want out and she doesn't want to end it, you're unfortunately going to have to make it happen. While she may not "fight" you on things, she also will likely not help you end things. 

All I can say is try to remember to let everyone have their dignity, and focus on the kids in particular. Keep things as amicable as humanly possibly for their sake is critical to how well they get through this. For this reason, MC or family counseling might be advisable even through the separation process. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Scooter13 said:


> Not well, but she was not surprised. I think she is more afraid than anything. I think she knew it was coming. She just said actually hearing it was hard. She says she is in love with me, but I don't know if I believe her. I know for certain that I am not "In love with her". I do care about her, but I can't see myself growing old with her. part of me just wishes she would look at me and say that she is done and wants out. I think I would be relieved if I heard her say that.


Scooter, she states she loves you. Do not expect your W to say she is done. It would appear your W saying this would validate and be approval of your thoughts of leaving. You stated you are not in love with your W. What brought this on?


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

PBear said:


> All I can say is try to remember to let everyone have their dignity, and focus on the kids in particular. Keep things as amicable as humanly possibly for their sake is critical to how well they get through this. For this reason, MC or family counseling might be advisable even through the separation process.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Agree.


----------



## Scooter13 (Sep 24, 2014)

I wish I knew what brought it on. Even before our son's death, sexually we were not good. I have a higher sex drive that I guess she has, which I think is typical. The past three years I was always the one that initiated sex. Never did it come from her. it was me asking and her saying no. Then when she felt like it was "Time" to finally do it she would finally say yest to get me off her case for a few days. This was going on before we lost our son as well. Finally within the past year or two I just stopped asking. so now we would go 6-7 weeks without anything. Now that I dont show it she is starting to try once in a while, but I feel completely turned off. I don't like when she touches me I just feel emotionally and physically unconnected to her.


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

PBear said:


> I'm usually one of the first to jump on the "abandon ship" wagon, it seems. But in your case, i think you owe it to yourself, your wife, and your kids to make a focused effort to work on the issues in your marriage and yourself. Give it one more good solid try.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Absolutely. There are unresolved issues. These need to be examined and laid out on the table. These might be resolved. Perhaps not. Either way, you can say you gave your absolute best in making it work for all involved.


----------



## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Scooter13 said:


> Not well, but she was not surprised. I think she is more afraid than anything. I think she knew it was coming. She just said actually hearing it was hard. *She says she is in love with me, but I don't know if I believe her.* I know for certain that I am not "In love with her". I do care about her, but I can't see myself growing old with her. part of me just wishes she would look at me and say that she is done and wants out. I think I would be relieved if I heard her say that.


Well, you mentioned in another post that her actions say otherwise, and the actions are more important than the words. And to answer your question, YES it IS ok for you to feel what you are feeling. My suggestion would be to go ahead and give the MC a couple of tries and feel it out. If you dont feel you can build things back, then at least you can say that you tried everything that you could. You both deserve to be happy after all the sadness you have been through, whether together or apart.


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Scooter13 said:


> I wish I knew what brought it on. Even before our son's death, sexually we were not good. I have a higher sex drive that I guess she has, which I think is typical. The past three years I was always the one that initiated sex. Never did it come from her. it was me asking and her saying no. Then when she felt like it was "Time" to finally do it she would finally say yest to get me off her case for a few days. This was going on before we lost our son as well. Finally within the past year or two I just stopped asking. so now we would go 6-7 weeks without anything. Now that I dont show it she is starting to try once in a while, but I feel completely turned off. I don't like when she touches me I just feel emotionally and physically unconnected to her.


Before the accident, your W was physically distant because of the kids, housework, outside job and general overall life? Sometimes men and women disconnect when kids and life get in the way. Each other forget to spend time, care for and nurture their relationship. I know these things...I did it for 20 years! I wised up though. Perhaps your W was overwhelmed. Sex was another job she had to tackle for the day. Sometimes I felt that way with my W. But again, I wised up and began to understand my W needs. 

So, you need to clear some air from a your loss. You need to reconnect. Just from your posts I see this can work if effort is put into it. Your W appears to be on board. What might your W do to get that spark back?

Purchase, His Needs. Her Needs. Please, both, read it.


----------



## Scooter13 (Sep 24, 2014)

I really do appreciate everybody here. I am very glad I found this forum. I am planning on going to MC tomorrow at noon. I am going to give it a shot because I want to be sure I am at least giving this an effort. I feel like I have been trying for years, but this will be my last attempt. As far as doing this with dignity that is a no doubter. I am willing to do whatever I have to do to make sure she can be comfortable financially. I would get another job if need be. I would never threaten her with taking the kids from her. I know they love her and she loves them and she is a good mother. I do care about her and we both deserve to be happy. I think that is why I want her to want out as well. I want her to not make this into a fight. I am willing to do whatever I need to do for her and the kids. I am the least of my worries. I just want to be happy.


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Scooter13 said:


> I really do appreciate everybody here. I am very glad I found this forum. I am planning on going to MC tomorrow at noon. I am going to give it a shot because I want to be sure I am at least giving this an effort. I feel like I have been trying for years, but this will be my last attempt. As far as doing this with dignity that is a no doubter. I am willing to do whatever I have to do to make sure she can be comfortable financially. I would get another job if need be. I would never threaten her with taking the kids from her. I know they love her and she loves them and she is a good mother. I do care about her and we both deserve to be happy. I think that is why I want her to want out as well. I want her to not make this into a fight. I am willing to do whatever I need to do for her and the kids. I am the least of my worries. I just want to be happy.


What was once happy can not be had again? What have you tried for years? You went to counseling by yourself. Your W went by herself. I'm not sure were the trying *together* has working itself in to the equation. 

I will be the last to say marriage is easy. It takes work! All relationships take work. Working together at it lessens the work. 

Will walking from home, kids and W really deliver happiness?


----------



## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Scooter, there are certain things that happen in the life of a marriage that are likely to cause a breakup. The death of a child by unnatural causes massively stresses a marriage, as does having a special needs child.

*Long-Term Effects of the Death of a Child on Parents’ Adjustment in Midlife*
_Research on the impact of bereavement as a trauma has emphasized significant negative psychological and health outcomes. For instance, Stroebe, Stroebe, and Abakoumkin (2005) found that bereaved persons, especially those with extreme emotional loneliness and severe depressive symptoms, are at risk for suicidal ideation. Li, Laursen, Precht, Olsen, and Mortensen (2005) found that bereaved parents, especially mothers, were at increased risk for a first psychiatric hospitalization as compared with nonbereaved parents. In fact, maternal risk of hospitalization remained significantly elevated 5 years or more after the death. Using Danish national registries, these investigators also found that *mortality rates were higher among bereaved than nonbereaved parents, particularly for deaths due to unnatural causes (e.g., accidents and suicide) within the first 3 years after the child’s death* (Li, Precht, Mortensen, & Olson, 2003). Bereavement was associated with long-term mortality due to illness (e.g., cancer) for the mothers, presumably because of stress, a weakened immune system, or poor health behaviors (e.g., smoking, alcohol consumption).

*One study indicated that the divorce rates among bereaved parents are as much as eight times the norm*_

You've got two other kids who are depending on you, so you need to get your head out, man up, and get it together. Quit the alcohol and start working out with weights 3X a week and get into counseling with an actual shrink. We're all going to die, but losing a kid is really the worst thing that can happen to a parent; especially when you had already forbidden the action.


----------



## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Scooter13 said:


> I am planning on going to MC tomorrow at noon. .


An MC can't help you. Get a grief counselor; (a PhD) or a shrink (MD). Try to avoid the pill pushers. Studies show regular heavy exercise is just as effective as SSRIs. Take up ruck marching a couple of days a week in addition to weight training.


----------



## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

Scooter13 said:


> She claims to be in love with me,


I would take her at her word and work up from that.

Find one thing, whatever it is, that you like to do together. It might be hiking, antique hunting, going to auctions, going to concerts, foodie experience, museums, handball. Then do it, regularly, even if you are not feeling it or are tired/depressed. Really get into it. See if that one thing is fun again with the two of you. If it is...then find the 2nd thing to do together that you might like, and add it to the mix. Keep it going until one day, you guys ARE enjoying each other's company.

How is the sex btw? Sex IS the universal balm. try some new kinky sex moves on her.


----------



## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

If you are still on anti depressants, you should know that they have a tendency to kill sex drive and feelings of intimacy. In my opinion, antidepressants should only be used temporarily in cases like yours. Like a tourniquet to stop the emotional hemorrhaging. 


Personally, I like machiavellis approach better for long term.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Scooter13 (Sep 24, 2014)

Well the sex life is terrible. I just dont have any attraction toward her and it has nothing to do with her physical appearance. I also do not drink and I do work out 5x a week. working out is my stress relief and I go hard. Doing this has helped. I am currently in the best shape of my life and I am 38 years old. to answer another question yes I still am on anit-depressants. I was on 30 mg of lexipro, I am now only on 20 MG, but I break them in half so really it is only 10 mg. I have started only taking a half pill every other day as I slow try to get myself off the medication. 

I really do appreciate everyone's thoughts on me needing a grief counselor. I have to respectfully disagree with that. I saw a grief counselor for nearly 3 years. I made huge strides with her. As I said I am extremely sad and I miss my boy every day, but my depression comes from the fact that I know my wife cannot make me happy. I know in my heart that we both will be better off apart. That has nothing to do with my son's passing and everything to do with the fact that I just am not in love with her. I have no fun with her and feel no connection to her at all. the only thing we have in common is our kids. If they were not around I don't know what we would even do together.


----------



## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

If you think leaving will make you happy, then leave. Just remember, until you can find a way to be happy anywhere, you won't be. 

When you are with your wife, you don't have to be happy for her. Be happy for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

I cannot imagine how hard it must be to lose your child. I won't pretend to understand the pain you must feel.

Respectfully, my take is that you need to be the one to lead your family out of this. Your wife is not strong enough to do it. You need to do it.

I do not think that things will get better if you leave your wife.


----------



## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

I feel for the sake of the special needs child, slow down. I'm hearing a race horse stomping at the gate ready to bolt and run. Natural response to pain

As is low affection in both you and your spouse.

This level of trauma does not work its way out quickly. I know you know can take years to recover and you are emerging slightly ahead of your wife.

This can create conflict much like the contrast between HD and LD. One person emerging from trauma and one still in it is certainly grounds for unsettling dynamics.

I have to ask the question... are you emotionally attached to another woman right now? I know you are running "from" pain, but are you also running "toward" someone else? 

Unresolved trauma must be resolved and in the loss of your beloved precious child... that can be hard to find. I hear the anger and resentment that extends even beyond your wife. She is mostly getting caught in the crossfire of it. Even if you leave her this will follow you... so it will be your cross to bear to get it resolved whether you are with her or not. I believe strategic separation may serve you well to give you both some space emotionally to breath, get some healing to return stronger and engage in taking care of your other precious children. Be patient while resolving the unresolved and be strategic. I believe it can be reclaimed with your wife... 

question... if it had been you who had made a mistake that cost your child his life how would you have wanted your wife to respond? 

Your situation is one of my greatest fears. Not only the loss of my child, but that I would be the cause because of a mistake. Its amazing your wife is alive through that burden. Speaks extremely well of her strength, courage, determination for you and your children. Her fortitude to lose her son, shouldering the blame, staying engaged taking care of her babies and still trying to be a wife to you is definitely something that can be built on. 

so deeply deeply sorry ... what greater epic could be written than of you overcoming to keep your family in tact and find that deep fulfillment with your bride... anyway... 

The depths of that kind of wisdom gained cannot be measured and would be a treasure trove to help others. I hope this is the path you find... if not... there isn't a soul here who would blame you.


----------



## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Blossom Leigh said:


> I feel for the sake of the special needs child, slow down. I'm hearing a race horse stomping at the gate ready to bolt and run. Natural response to pain
> 
> As is low affection in both you and your spouse.
> 
> ...



And I just got the strong urge to say this to you, through tears.... please know this is not sarcastic or in any way have the intent to hurt you at ALL!! please know that..

If your son was standing face to face with you today and could see his Daddy's pain and his Mommie's pain.... what do you think his words would be to your heart. What would your little Buddy tell you to do.

said UTMOST RESPECT and tender intent.

My heart grieves for y'all...


----------



## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

I do not know why everybody is telling you to stay together. For me it looks like your biggest issue right now is this marriage, you just cannot get out fast enough. Unfortunately, that's quite common in families with tragedies, they do not really join them, they make them drift apart. 

The same people that keep saying on other threads that there staying in marriage for kids is a bad thing, are telling you exactly that now. Why? What's so different about his marriage?


----------



## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Great question... Maybe resisting additional trauma


----------



## Scooter13 (Sep 24, 2014)

Thank you again for all of the feedback. To answer a couple of questions. 
#1. No I am not running to another woman. That is not the case in my situation. I am not that type of person. I do fear that if I keep feeling this way and living this way that I may make that mistake, but no there is nobody else I am running to. 
#2. Me being in a hurry. I agree with you. I sound like I am trying to get out right now and run away. It may seem like the case, however I have been unhappy in my marriage for three years. Even before the tragedy we had issues, obviously just not to this level. 
#3. I take no disrespect to the question of what my son would say to me right now. I ask him that all the time and I try to imagine what he would say to me. Sometimes I think he would tell me that I need to step up and be there for mom and other times I think he would tell me he just wants me to be happy. 
#4. I have thought long and hard about what if it was me who let him on that snowmobile. I have thought about how she and her family would have reacted to this. I would hope they would have been supportive, but my belief is that she may not have forgiven me. My wife is strong for getting through everything and probably lucky to be alive, but at the same time so am I. We have been through 20 years of hell in 4 years and we both deserve happiness. Deep down I know I have forgiven her for what happened. I do not hate her and I really don't hold in any anger. I question why she allowed him on it, but this is not a reason for my feelings of distance with her.


----------



## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

And those were asked from the angle of being at a disadvantage information wise with a limited peek through this forum... no disrespect, minimization, lack of acknowledgement intended at all. 

I too believe he would want you to step up and be there for Mom 
AND be happy... isn't that the way their hearts are wired... 


That would be your greatest success without question

Can you be her friend and raise the kids living together without expectations of husband and wife for a while. just focusing on kindness and support and see where that flows for a season, letting go and just accepting her as co partners in recovery, parents and human beings. Forget about sex for a while... that can recover later... strip it down to the basics of companionship that you would have in a great friend. You are right.... it is a miracle either of you are alive... may you continue to be strengthened and nurtured no matter what your choice is. Just hoping for the best for all of you.


----------



## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Though I have not lost a child

I am the mother of a five year old son

And I have also personally experienced rekindling feelings for a spouse..... twice... following devastating relational trauma

it is possible..

so I don't speak lightly or from a place of inexperience myself on pieces of your story, nor pie in the sky

Only you will know if you can shift to a neutral that allows you to navigate this season of this recovery..


----------



## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

One thought that crossed my mind... 

with a special needs child, your wifes emotional availability for you would have been compromised already then compounded after your son's accident. Prior to the birth of your special needs child what was the relationship like? Does she possess the capacity to regain emotional availability for you and do you have the capacity to wait on her to regain it. I think this is a central issue for consideration. If thinking about it you decide you want to wait her out you would have to conciously choose to surround yourself with really good support, detach in such a way to be supportive but not jeopardize your patience through the wait and really get nurtured and encourage her to do the same.


----------



## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

WandaJ said:


> I do not know why everybody is telling you to stay together. For me it looks like your biggest issue right now is this marriage, you just cannot get out fast enough. Unfortunately, that's quite common in families with tragedies, they do not really join them, they make them drift apart.
> 
> The same people that keep saying on other threads that there staying in marriage for kids is a bad thing, are telling you exactly that now. Why? What's so different about his marriage?


As far as I'm concerned (and I feel like I'm often one of the first to say "get out"), the reason why I suggest trying again is because it doesn't sound like they've tried to heal TOGETHER. They've done their grief counseling separately. And it just seems like their family deserves one more shot. 

Having said that, I'm not saying he should stay indefinitely "for the kids". Just that he should make one last 100% committed try. But life has dealt them all a pretty crappy hand, and I wouldn't blame him for getting out. But I suspect he'll be taking a large selection of baggage with him, if he doesn't deal with it now. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Well said PBear


----------



## Scooter13 (Sep 24, 2014)

Yes I am willing to do whatever is best for both my kids and for my wife. I don't want to hurt her. I do love her, but not the kind of love I need. I could live together without the sex and just be a family for a while. I have been doing it for quite some time. Our middle child has special needs, but to be clear he is not autistic. The only think he has been diagnosed with is epilepsy and that was recent. He is very tiny, low muscle tone and devopmentally delayed. He is not your typical 9 year old, but it could be much worse. The best way i can say it is he is nine, but looking at him and talking to him you would think he was 5 or 6. If he was 6 nobody would think anything is wrong with him. I really don't think we were ever great together as far as the chemistry in bed goes. I am much more out going so to speak while she is very laid back and reserved.


----------



## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Great sex is learned

if she is willing to be a student

could be a great way to reconnect everything on a new level.

Your tenacity and fortitude is truly to be commended... I think a lot of us believe you have it in you to take it all the way. Relax into grace and let the pressure off on the expectations.

My H and I just connected on a level that just blew my mind when just 15 months ago he was in a VERY bad and dangerous place (I ended up in a hotel with our son), so changes can be quite dramatic when both are willing. Sometimes, the brilliance comes in the silence between the notes.... aka just letting go of the pressure for a while, prepare for the next swell of note and hope its in better tune and repeat that cycle until its a symphony.


----------



## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

what kind of love do you need....


----------



## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

but let me reiterate.. all that can come later... 

just be buddies for a while

you may see an organic progression

ever heard of tantric sex? May be a way to connect


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Sad that you lost your son to a meaningless accident. I remember my mother mentioning that a doctor we knew from summer camp, he went to the same medical school as my father, died in auto accident with his grandson. What hell for the family father and son gone in the same catastrophic event.

Everyone knows people who have lived with this sort of grief. What we don't know is how it feels. Your grieving my never end. The only solution is to try to live fully.

If you tell your wife that you want to divorce and file for it, you can tell her that in the interim period before it comes final, you can try to reconnect. Maybe having a deadline will motivate to you try.

When you reject your wife sexually you feel guilt. Maybe you need to get angry and bang her, using that emotion. Hate and anger can flip over to love. Indifference will always be nothing.

If you talked dirty with her, could you let go?


----------



## Scooter13 (Sep 24, 2014)

She is way too sexually reserved for any of that. Very strict Catholic. That would be a sin in her eyes. Another area we are very different.


----------



## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Scooter13 said:


> She is way too sexually reserved for any of that. Very strict Catholic. That would be a sin in her eyes. Another area we are very different.




Sex is a gift from God.... WHY do people get reserved with that...

Big God 

Big Sex in my book

dang...

so much bad teaching over the years. 

And that was the VERY area that my H and I hit a new stride this week. He approached me with honor in his heart for God and me as the gift from His hands and I orgasmed in a style I never have and always wanted to for decades. H and I were THRILLED. We are SO close now and just seven months ago we were headed for divorce.


----------



## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

ok, listen to Blossom. 

whenever you are around her, you are sad. you can change that, but it will take a little effort. go have fun. together. 

find enjoyable things to do together. simple as that. dont try to reconnect, just focus on having enjoying yourself with her next to you. 

so, do you have any hobbies, or know of something you would enjoy doing?


----------



## SurpriseMyself (Nov 14, 2009)

Scooter- I am in a very similar situation to yours. I lost my brother in a violent and tragic way three years ago. Like you, the first year was a blur. I was functional, but also lost. I also was in a marriage that I no longer wanted. Like you, my H is very different from me. Lastly, we also have a child who has some challenges: adhd, sensory processing issues, and motor skill delay.

I won't tell you to go or stay. But I will say that the loss of my brother, followed by the loss of both my parents in the following years, has made me reassess everything. I feel life is short. I feel like every day that I'm not living the life I want is a day I will never get back. I have started to wonder how many days I have left, although I'm only 41. I want more out of life than I have now.

I, too, am planning on leaving my marriage. The way I see it, I don't want to waste my life. I don't want to live without love and regret my indecisiveness. 

Do what your gut tells you to. I hope you find your way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Scooter13 (Sep 24, 2014)

My gut tells me that I will never be truly happy if I stay with her. My KNOW that I can be happy again. I really do. I am actually starting to get myself off of anti-depressants. I am going to give it a shot. Counseling was good we got a lot out there. I need to be loved and I need a spark. If it comes back great, but if I truly give this a shot and we can't get that spark back then for once in my life I need to do what is best for me. I am a better father and person when I am happy. I am done being depressed in this life. We have lived a lifetime of Hell in just four years, but life is short and we all deserve happiness. It is time to figure out how to live again.


----------



## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Scooter13 said:


> My gut tells me that I will never be truly happy if I stay with her. My KNOW that I can be happy again. I really do. I am actually starting to get myself off of anti-depressants. I am going to give it a shot. Counseling was good we got a lot out there. I need to be loved and I need a spark. If it comes back great, but if I truly give this a shot and we can't get that spark back then for once in my life I need to do what is best for me. I am a better father and person when I am happy. I am done being depressed in this life. We have lived a lifetime of Hell in just four years, but life is short and we all deserve happiness. It is time to figure out how to live again.


You are right, life is short, and you need to try and grab some happy. You have put in your time and then some when it comes to sadness. This is your life and your decision, dont let others dictate how you live it.


----------



## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Scooter13 said:


> My gut tells me that I will never be truly happy if I stay with her. My KNOW that I can be happy again. I really do. I am actually starting to get myself off of anti-depressants. I am going to give it a shot. Counseling was good we got a lot out there. I need to be loved and I need a spark. If it comes back great, but if I truly give this a shot and we can't get that spark back then for once in my life I need to do what is best for me. I am a better father and person when I am happy. I am done being depressed in this life. We have lived a lifetime of Hell in just four years, but life is short and we all deserve happiness. It is time to figure out how to live again.


Its the best you can do, Hon. Choose a reasonable time frame. I gave my H this year for us to get it fixed(my issues were very different than yours) and by six months the changes were so dramatic that I regained confidence in us. If it were my choice in your same shoes I would set a two to three year time frame. But that is me.. I would strip it down to kind companions and navigate the time frame from that point. Take time for myself for a while.


----------



## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Your kids went through horrible tragedy too, when your son died. But they are young, they would like to move on. But as long as you are are staying in this relationship that makes you feel so misearable and depressed, it will be hard for them to get passed that. There is no affection and love at the house. You being so severly depressed are not really there for them, you are there physically but not emotionally.
Others say there are unresolved issues between you and your wife. Possible. But not all the questions in life have answers, sometimes you just have to move on, and deal with the fact that you will never know, you will never get to fix something. We humans like to be in control in charge, but sometimes the best things to do is to let it go and move on.

so, I am going here against the crowd. It really seem that you had put a lot of thought into it, and you know what you want and need. You do seem deeply miserable. Leave, take anti-depressants for a while if needed, be very involved wiht your kids, and let them see that happiness is still possible, that sadness and misery of their home life doesn't have to last for life. They too need to see the light at the end of that dark tunne;.


----------



## Scooter13 (Sep 24, 2014)

Well, I have gone through three sessions of couples counseling. I have been pretty honest with her and I know I have said some hurtful things. Not intentionally Just trying to be honest. It has been a month. We still get along well, but physically there is no attraction. Just feel stuck.


----------



## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

its ok it's not there right now... recovering intimacy and deep connectedness is not a short road. One month won't cut it. 

how was the companionship? kindness?


----------

