# What to talk about in a potential awkward Dinner situation...



## LonelyIrish (Jun 5, 2011)

So,
Mushy Irish is gone. 180 is here. 
Counselling has started and apparently we have communication issues. She doesn't talk and I don't listen.
The counselling session was good though and I realised that we're both to blame in this in equal ways. I'm not the victim I thought I was some weeks ago.

Anyway, we agreed to keep counselling and to meet up for dinner to talk.

My question to you with experience here, is what to talk about?
Do I talk about weather, the way the Irish economy is crumbling, Does President Obama really have relations in Ireland and so on, OR, do we talk about us and home and family and then ask how we are really feeling and see how we move forward.
I don't want the dinner to turn into a chore as neither of us will want to meet up again to do that, but at the same time I don't want to go back to my house later thinking that the dinner was a bit pointless.
Any advice here?
LonelyIrish.


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## madimoff (Feb 17, 2010)

I hope you get some good replies, because it's a good question probably quite relevant for a lot of us with awkward moments to deal with. For myself, we only see each other about every couple of weeks and there are lots of 'taboo' issues plus of course I can't talk about 'planning' stuff because it's not a regular schedule so I don't know if I can count him in to family stuff or not. I know your situation is obviously different, everyone's will be - but for what it's worth I think I'd keep relatively light to start (and maybe all the way through). Focus on what you're eating, who's in the restaurant, how efficient or otherwise the waiting staff are, then working towards when you last had ribeye steak or whatever. You can make things more intimate/affectionate by bringing up memories, people that customers remind you of, situations which are/were similar to that particular restaurant. 
Sounds trite, but at least there'll be no friction - unless you let it happen! ... I know for us the single most important thing is for us to enjoy being together, not feel stressed. 
Saying that I do know that 'unspoken' stuff can cause as much hassle as if you were talking about it, so depending on your relationship maybe there's a case to be made for agreeing at the start of the meal (after some of the light conversation) that you'll limit 'intense' talks to no more than 15 minutes, or whatever, and only about one specific issue. Sounds as though the subject maybe should be listening, so possibly a lighthearted 'listening' exercise would be one way of setting things going. Don't know!
Good luck, will be watching with interest.


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## LonelyIrish (Jun 5, 2011)

I would tend to agree with alot of that. I'm fairly sure though that I won't be going on month after month meeting twice or three times to have dinner. For me that would be dragging it out and not giving either of us the chance to either get back together or move onwards. 
I think that if we both want to get back together then we'll need, at some stage, to really talk and argue and thrash out any pent up feelings. Brushing over them in counselling will bring these issues out, but it's really down to the two of us then to talk properly about them.
If we only meet once a week outside of counselling and spend alot of that time shooting the breeze and talking about fluffy stuff, then, from my own personal view point, we are not really moving forwards. I would see that as dragging out a situation where we eventually become comfortable enough to move on as individuals and not as a couple. Thats not what I want. 

I like what you said about maybe agreeing not to spend the full time talking about our feelings and trying to enjoy it, but at the same time trying to get some forward movement.

LI.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Ask questions. What’s your earliest childhood memory? What was your favourite holiday? Where is the number one place you’d like to go on holiday? What’s your favourite film? And when you get answers add some information of your own and ask more questions to go deeper into the subject. Do this, show real interest in her with a smile on your face and your wife will feel heard and she will “feel” that you know her that bit more after the meal.

I’m worked in Dublin and here in Portugal I’m blessed with a few Irish friends. Talking has never been a problem for them, in fact they talk so much they rarely listen!


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## madimoff (Feb 17, 2010)

LonelyIrish said:


> I would tend to agree with alot of that. I'm fairly sure though that I won't be going on month after month meeting twice or three times to have dinner. For me that would be dragging it out and not giving either of us the chance to either get back together or move onwards.
> I think that if we both want to get back together then we'll need, at some stage, to really talk and argue and thrash out any pent up feelings. Brushing over them in counselling will bring these issues out, but it's really down to the two of us then to talk properly about them.
> If we only meet once a week outside of counselling and spend alot of that time shooting the breeze and talking about fluffy stuff, then, from my own personal view point, we are not really moving forwards. I would see that as dragging out a situation where we eventually become comfortable enough to move on as individuals and not as a couple. Thats not what I want.
> 
> ...


I suppose I hadn't fully understood that you're apart and looking to decide your future together or otherwise. It's a different scenario from believing there is a future and working towards rebuilding it without further damage. 
I'd still go down the road of making your meetings/meals as stress-free as possible, though - and AFEH's idea is sound (providing you don't bring up subjects you REALLY should know the answer to!!).


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## LonelyIrish (Jun 5, 2011)

AFEH said:


> Ask questions. What’s your earliest childhood memory? What was your favourite holiday? Where is the number one place you’d like to go on holiday? What’s your favourite film? And when you get answers add some information of your own and ask more questions to go deeper into the subject. Do this, show real interest in her with a smile on your face and your wife will feel heard and she will “feel” that you know her that bit more after the meal.
> 
> I’m worked in Dublin and here in Portugal I’m blessed with a few Irish friends. Talking has never been a problem for them, in fact they talk so much they rarely listen!


I like the sound of that. 
Believe me, talking is not an issue for me. My issue is that I listen but I don't hear. Her issue is that she talks but she doesn't communicate. 
I didn't realise this until it was very clear in the counselling session. We've had many issues (not marriage related) over the years and I've always been able to talk to her and my mates/family but it came out during the counselling session that she doesn't talk to anyone. That can't be healthy. 
LI.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Have dinner in a window seat and talk about the people going by. 
Have you considered nonverbal communication?
Maybe do something like take lessons together: ballroom dancing, indoor or outdoor rock climbing, archery, go to the park and play badminton or croquet or American favorite is mini-golf with all those cute moving obstacles. Even bowling is nice because the conversation has natural breaks in it. We have disco or glow-light bowling nights. 
Sitting and eating is awkward. I don't think it's the greatest way to connect. Because it's something you've done a lot (by virtue of being human) as soon as you sit down and pick up the fork, there is a lot of learned behavior in terms of habits that are going to come into play. In my opinion you have to shake it up a bit. Even going to the library and talking to each other through the books from different aisles would be an improvement. Hey, what are you reading over there? I've got the complete never-before-published works of Rudyard Kipling and I can certainly see why they were never before published! Or yes, join a book or movie group together. Then sit across the room from each other when the discussion happens. 

I am dealing with this too. Dinner isn't going to cut it for me.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

LI you probably do listen and you do hear but I’m guessing what you are not doing is demonstrating that you have listened and you have heard. You do that simply by repeating what a person has said to you. It really is that simple. It takes more time, things slow down a bit but it is immensely worth it because the other person “feels heard”. Plus it’s difficult with those with the “gift of the gab” and I mean that in a nice way. If I want seriously good entertainment, laughter and fun I’ll connect with my Irish mates.

Your wife is unsurprisingly not the only person on the planet who does not talk to anyone. Well, you may find that there is someone she confides in and this will be a person she has taken a long time to “check out”. And they check them out to see how well they can keep secrets. So I reckon there is at least one person your wife talks to and that this will be an very close friend. Well, that’s based on what I knew about my wife.

Your wife is probably extremely introverted, extroverts have no problems talking about and sharing their innermost thoughts and feelings whereas extreme introverts do. You’re probably an extrovert which will make it difficult for you to understand these things.

You have to get to know introverts by what they do, how they behave. It’s not possible to get to know them by how they think, what they think about and how they feel because they don’t talk about those things in an up front, honest and open way. I likened my wife to an onion with many layers. I never got beyond the outer skin so I never truly got to know her in the decades we lived together other than by her behaviour and the things she did.


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## LonelyIrish (Jun 5, 2011)

AFEH said:


> LI you probably do listen and you do hear but I’m guessing what you are not doing is demonstrating that you have listened and you have heard. You do that simply by repeating what a person has said to you. It really is that simple. It takes more time, things slow down a bit but it is immensely worth it because the other person “feels heard”. Plus it’s difficult with those with the “gift of the gab” and I mean that in a nice way. If I want seriously good entertainment, laughter and fun I’ll connect with my Irish mates.
> 
> Your wife is unsurprisingly not the only person on the planet who does not talk to anyone. Well, you may find that there is someone she confides in and this will be a person she has taken a long time to “check out”. And they check them out to see how well they can keep secrets. So I reckon there is at least one person your wife talks to and that this will be an very close friend. Well, that’s based on what I knew about my wife.
> 
> ...


Jeesh! It sounds about right. I thought I knew her pretty well. We got through some tough medical stuff together so we are both well aware of how important it is to talk and make sure we understand each other. That was years ago though, and maybe we forgot how to do that.
I'll go with the advice posted here. 
I'll suggest something other than dinner next week.
Tonight I'll try and listen and do little talking.
Thanks.
LI.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

LonelyIrish said:


> Jeesh! It sounds about right. I thought I knew her pretty well. We got through some tough medical stuff together so we are both well aware of how important it is to talk and make sure we understand each other. That was years ago though, and maybe we forgot how to do that.
> I'll go with the advice posted here.
> I'll suggest something other than dinner next week.
> Tonight I'll try and listen and do little talking.
> ...


Buy Awareness by Anthony de Mello. It will help you take your “self” out of the equation with your wife. He will teach you how to be an observer of your self and other people. Because you’ll be observing rather than doing or talking it’ll slow that brain and tongue of yours down a bit lol! Read the book, put the lesson into practice and I guarantee you your wife will see a big change in you and change will happen between the two of you.


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## LonelyIrish (Jun 5, 2011)

AFEH said:


> Buy Awareness by Anthony de Mello. It will help you take your “self” out of the equation with your wife. He will teach you how to be an observer of your self and other people. Because you’ll be observing rather than doing or talking it’ll slow that brain and tongue of yours down a bit lol! Read the book, put the lesson into practice and I guarantee you your wife will see a big change in you and change will happen between the two of you.


I'll check that out.
The dinner went fine. It was quite draining though. I found it impossible to just have fun and not talk about relationship stuff.
We stayed out about 3 hours.
At the end of it, we hugged, but to be honest she still doesn't know how she feels and I don't trust her and I'm still angry at how she handled the split in the first place. There were many ways to do it, but saying at midnight that she was leaving the next morning was cold. In my view I could not do that to her or to someone I love so I'm not sure I want to open myself up to someone that would do that and could do that again.
It was a horrible 3 weeks and I'm getting over it.
It's much harder than I thought to even contimplate going back to try to stay married. I want to do it, but as Shakespere said, love is blind and lovers can not see the pretty follys they themselves commit.
He knew a bit about stuff I reckon.
Anyway, the next stage is to meet up next week for counselling again. This time however it's not just about me wondering how she feels. I'll need to get some help as to how I can trust a word she says. If someone lies to me daily for a few months and then abandons a person, it is going to be very difficult to be accepted back.
Sadly, where I thought it was originally about hoping she comes back, it's now more about whether I can honestly trust her enough and get over my anger/distrust to say that this is the person I was to live my life with.
LI.


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## LonelyIrish (Jun 5, 2011)

"you're perfectly content to be nobody. You don't give a damn about success or failure. They mean nothing. Honor, disgrace, they mean nothing! If you make a fool of yourself, that means nothing either. Isn't that a wonderful state to be in!"

OK, so I read the first 26 pages online this morning. I answered the question about the selfishness wrong according to him. Would I rather be happy or be with her? I can honestly say that the happiest times I have had were with her when she was also happy. It was like happiness squared. 

I'm wondering if that guy knows a different level of happiness or does he really think that the happiness that he feels is the height of happiness.

As for honor and disgrace meaning nothing. I can honestly say that I would not like to live a life where nothing mattered but my own happiness. 
Thats not the world we live in, and I think we can go down his road but you would have to give up the management job and the fancy lifestyle too. My wife woudl notice a chance for sure, I would be a completely different person. My friends and family would also notice a chance and to be honest I'm actually happy with my life at the moment, except that I now have some trust issues. Maybe thats something that I'm now just awake to, but if I want to get back with her again, I'm going to have to trust again.

LI.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

LI I couldn’t get past my loss of trust in my wife. Something happened, I lost my trust in her and broke up after 42 years together. All I wanted was the truth and she wouldn’t give it to me.

If your wife does give you her truth now then there may be a chance for the two of you together. I really do believe that it’s in these times we really do get to know our partner at a deeper level and we come to realise just how very different we are. And those differences are at their heart in our values and beliefs. And it’s at these times we discover for the very first time which of our values and beliefs we will not compromise under any circumstances or at any price. I let get of the love of my life and half of my money because I refused to compromise certain of my values and beliefs.

But why not try a marriage enrichment program instead of or in addition to MC. Most of us haven’t a clue what the structure and dynamics of a happy and healthy marriage look like, that’s what’s taught in enrichment programs.


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## LonelyIrish (Jun 5, 2011)

AFEH said:


> LI I couldn’t get past my loss of trust in my wife. Something happened, I lost my trust in her and broke up after 42 years together. All I wanted was the truth and she wouldn’t give it to me.
> 
> If your wife does give you her truth now then there may be a chance for the two of you together. I really do believe that it’s in these times we really do get to know our partner at a deeper level and we come to realise just how very different we are. And those differences are at their heart in our values and beliefs. And it’s at these times we discover for the very first time which of our values and beliefs we will not compromise under any circumstances or at any price. I let get of the love of my life and half of my money because I refused to compromise certain of my values and beliefs.
> 
> But why not try a marriage enrichment program instead of or in addition to MC. Most of us haven’t a clue what the structure and dynamics of a happy and healthy marriage look like, that’s what’s taught in enrichment programs.


I agree with the need for marriage enrichment programmes.
I think everyone who is married and is happy should still go on these every year even if it's only for a couple of hours for a couple of weeks.

We'll see how it works out with my wife. She has her own issues, but now of course I have major trust issues. I know that I'll go through grief again in life when family members die, but the last 3 weeks were really bad.
Today is the first day in nearly 4 weeks that I had a hot dinner during the working day. I've not been able to stomach more than a bowl of cereal and a ***** till today.
Have a good weekend and I'm sorry to hear that after 42 years you found trust issues. 

LI.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Lonely,

Me, I would Treat this like a date. You can talk about your MC till your blue, but in reality, it's your actions that are what's going to show her your changed.

I would put on my most happiest, confident airs I could. Then start talking about anything that comes to mind. But of course, they have to be topics that would engage conversation between you. Then, listen to her. Actually listen to her. And do what AFEH suggests. Repeat her words. Or go, yes. Uh huh. Wow, that's interesting! She needs to know you are engaged. That you are engaged in her. 

This does two things. One. Well, your listening. Two, by you being happy and showing confidence, it demonstrates that you are also doing well and are perfectly fine, with or without her. Displaying this confidence is the key!

As per the book...look deep. What it's actually saying as that you are responsible for making your own happiness, regardless of the path you take in life. Yes, you may have periods of shame. But don't let those moments consume you. Learn from them, and move on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyIrish (Jun 5, 2011)

We're meeting up later for week 2 of counselling.
Then the plan is to go for a walk and maybe get a coffee.
So, from what you're saying, keep it like a date.
I guess that her issues is that she feels like we were just friends in the past couple of months.
I don't want to spend the couple of hours I see her each week trying to do deep talk and draining the both of us.
Are you saying that by keeping it all happy and jovial and light that maybe she'll decide that this is the person she wants to be with?
It's now into the 5th week since she moved out. Still no progress and I'm still losing weight and not happy. I don't think I can be happy as the situation is in this Limbo state, but I also think I may need to be patient.
It's hard to know what the right call is to be honest.
If I found out it was all over I would sort out the finances then cut all ties with her, her family/friends and start again. 
I would rather start again with her, but at this stage I feel like she is just using me as the backup and waiting to see if she will fall back in love.
I can't see that happening when she sees me a couple of hours a week and half of that is in counselling.

LI.


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