# Working with some childhood/upbringing issues...? Help



## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

Okay, quick background...

I recently hit a point where I decided I was done. I confronted my wife, (not the first time, but the first time with this ultimate outcome) and we talked about it, and she wanted to give it one last go. I needed more attention, affection, sex, etc... from her in a WANTING way, not just doing. So here I am, on this site (not just this subforum) looking for tons of things I can do on my part to make things work. 

i know i'm not perfect. I can only hope she is trying as well. 

anyway... i've always wondered about the question I'm going to ask, just never had an avenue for it. 

i'm a HD guy... love lots of sex. Hers, probably non existent. 

Both of our upbringing was in a mormon lifestyle, where sex before marriage is bad. we've since left that lifestyle, and we were both on our way out when we first started dating. we had a lot of sexual encounters prior to being married (manual stim, kissing, sex, no oral...), but soon after getting married everything but the act of "intercourse" was the only thing being done during sex.

she grew up poor, ended up living in a one bedroom apartment with her parents... that's important because her dad used to watch porn and masturbate when she was "asleep". quotations because he would try to do it when she was sleeping, but she was awake a lot of the time. 

she also had an older gentleman get her to lay in his bed when she was young (must have been good candy..) and he ended up spooning with her (i have no idea how long and she said no sex either) but his junk made contact with her. i'm assuming she got out of that situation pretty fast, but i don't know. there were a couple of other minor instances, but those two seem to take the cake. 

couple that with her (our) mormon upbringing, and she isn't really into sex. we have it, but i feel like she tolerates it. at times she is open enough to do some foreplay (me on her) but most times, it's just a quickie. I get a decent amount of handjobs and bj's, but all of them are of the "favor" variety, not the "I want to" type. 

i've gone down on her orally less times than i can count on one hand (6 years of marriage) not because i don't want to, but because she doesn't want to. She says it's gross, and she's uncomfortable with it. the times she was, i had to spend an inordinate amount of time working up to the act so that she would acquiesce. i got her close to an "o" once, before she forced me to stop. 

she rarely initiates sex. when i do, it's like fighting to do it, until I'm "in" and then she warms up to it. it's good for the little bit of time we are connecting, but i want to do so much more. 

i've tried to have open communication about this, but i'm just not sure what I can do to help her open up to me. i think it's all her past that has her thinking that the sex act is gross and repulsive (she never gives me that body language, but i assume it's deep in her dark cavernous "feelings" bin. she doesn't really want to talk about it. 

here's the thing... i want to do right by her. i want her to be able to experience the big "o" and i loved going down on her the few times i did... it was awesome. up until the time she stopped me  

how do i get her to open up to me? does she need to confront her past in some way or something? how do i get past this. 

i want our sexual connection to fully evolve each time, not just jump straight to the busy stuff, but i'm not sure what to do. 

any thoughts? (outside of conseling... we are already on track with that and should be seeing a MC soon - i'm sure sex is something we'll get into there.) what can i do now? 

or am i doomed forever to the quickie?


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## Mr B (Feb 6, 2009)

She suffers from intimacy anxiety caused by childhood trauma. It isn't the sex so much as the intimacy it entails that makes her uneasy. To her being sexually close is equated with fear and danger...maybe not even consciously but certainly subconsciously. This fear kills libido. She can still function sexually because she's a woman....when this happens to men they usually shut down sexually and cannot perform at all. Still, she isn't relaxed and enjoying herself even if she wants to......the damage done makes any kind of close intimacy unpleasant. Psychotherapy (not Sex Therapy) can help.


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

so nothing i can do to help this...?


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Of course there is, Matty, but she is going to have to do most of the work. She needs to have some counseling -- not marriage counseling, but individual counseling. Nothing scary, but monsters live in the dark, and talking about what happened will help her move past it.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

She is the victim of child sex abuse. Yes, she was *sexually abused* as a child.

I live in the heart of Mormon central, though I am not myself religious. With many friends and coworkers who are LDS, I have a good idea of the "lifestyle" you two were brought up with. There is certain to be some sexual toxic shame, just as with other strict religions. There is an interesting website at www.themarriagebed.com which you might take a look at as a jumping off point for working through the sexual toxic shame.

As to her sex abuse. CSA is the acronym for Child Sex Abuse. She is a Survivor. You are a Secondary Survivor, which is a person who is a family member or close friend of a survivor. Get over to After Silence - A message board and chat room for survivors of rape and sexual assault. (Powered by Invision Power Board) to get started with some reading. You should pick up the book "Haunted Marriage", it was written specifically for Secondary Survivors.

CSA changes a child's world view _in every way_. She needs good, competent therapy to deal with it. Be aware that you may be triggering her with your actions or words, so you need to be cautious. Don't tell her to "Get over it", don't minimize her experiences, and don't tell her she is broken or damaged.

You can try to talk to her. It should be 90% you listening to her. Ask her how she feels about being physically close to you. Ask her if there are things which make her feel uncomfortable. Look to see if there are signs of her checking out during any kind of physical touching. Does she look away or seem absent? These are clues to her trauma being triggered.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Matt, sorry I had to bail in a hurry there last night when the wife came home.

I think you are on a difficult path here. A fundamental concept is that you cannot change another person. You can only change yourself. What you _can_ do with another person is set boundaries which train them how to treat you. You can also provide information to them.

We each have this model in our minds of how we think the world works. This includes what we picture a normal emotionally intimate relationship to be, what a normal sexual relationship is, and what a normal marriage is. It also includes our basic assumptions about people. Are people a threat to us? Are people inherently good?

Your wife's model is distorted and broken. By being introduced to sexuality at a young age (before puberty), her view of sex is nothing like yours. Her model of male sexuality is distorted. Her model of sexuality within a marriage is distorted.

Because it was her father who was involved in some of the CSA, and possibly some family involved in the other event(s) somehow, she may not think of family as safe. In other words, when you went from boyfriend to husband you jumped over a fence from being just some outside person to now being _family_. You might be threatening to her emotionally as husband when you never were as boyfriend.

Don't project your model onto her when you try to figure out what she is thinking! Words will have a totally different definition to her. Her goals, fears, desires, etc will all be different than yours. 

She may have no idea what is going on inside her mind. She may have no realization that any of her thoughts or emotions are not normal.

CSA survivors frequently feel great shame and guilt over the abuse. As an outsider we know it is not justified, because a child was victimized by an adult. But to the survivor it is very real. If you try to tell her that she has this broken world view, it will be very disturbing to her because in her mind it validates her shame and guilt. The CSA survivor doesn't seem to be able to differentiate between the abuse event and the subsequent psychological side effects. IOW, the survivor equates any psych issue with the abuse, and thus her deepest fear is confirmed (in her mind) that she indeed is deserving of the shame and guilt.

So what do you do now?

First, stop pressuring her for sex. You can try discussing how she feels about touch and sex. You can ask her if she feels uncomfortable at times. You can set up a "safety" word or gesture which she can use if she starts feeling uncomfortable. If you sense she is checking out during any touch or sex, stop immediately. If she turns away, zones out, looks frightened, etc. it is a clue she may be triggering.

Second, you will need to get good guidance from a qualified therapist. She will need good qualified therapy to get over the CSA. Her therapist would be a good resource for you to talk to once in a while (probably in a joint session with your W) to discuss how you can be helpful. Alternatively she would have an individual therapist while you both would see a marriage counselor periodically. The MC would have to be in the loop on her CSA issues and perhaps be in contact with her IC (with your wife's permission).

Third, consider a moratorium on sex for a while. Maybe 3 or 6 months. Or just start with one month. Affectionate touch, hugs, and kisses are ok. But no sexual touching. Your wife may be interpreting every touch from you as an attempt at sex.

Sex is necessary in a marriage. Touch is necessary. Eventually you need to get to a healthy place with sex and touch with her. But you cannot change her, only lead her if she is willing to follow. Don't make it a project to "fix her", instead set boundaries of what you will accept. Let her know what your expectations are. Then it is up to her to decide if she is willing to step up and be a responsible adult in a healthy marriage.


edited to add:

You can try to figure out what her triggers are even if she can't or won't tell you. For example, with my wife it is kissing. With your wife it may be hugging or cuddling because of the one event you described. Or it could be a food or song (my wife has a specific food item and a specific song which are triggers). The porn/MB thing with her dad may have something associated with it which triggers her today.

The more openly she will talk to you the better. But you don't have any need to know specifics of the abuse. What you two need to talk about is your relationship. Keep your discussions on the present day as much as possible unless she wants to talk about the past.


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