# What's the difference between leading in a relationship and being a bully



## TheHappyGuy (Aug 27, 2012)

My wife accuses me of being 'the most passive person she knows'. Lately it turned out that most decisions we made what I thought together after long consideration and discussion, she thinks I bullied her into the decision and she only agree to 'get me off her back'. 

How do these things fit together? She often expects me to lead and have an opinion on things but is highly critical of the opinion if it doesn't fit into her world view. 

I think I'm very laid back (which may be the cause for the 'passive' allegation) but I truly believed we made major decisions together.

Some of the decisions I apparently bullied her into are:


buying a new family car;
selling the house rather than renting it out when we had to move due to her getting a job offer 350km away. 
Having the son skip a year due to his outstanding academic achievements

I honestly wouldn't decide these things on my own. we had long discussions about each one of these decisions, but now it turns out I was the passive aggressive bully. 

Am I a bully or is she being mean?


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## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

Either you are passive, or you are passive-aggressive,, about as opposite as it gets apart from being overtly aggressive. Your wife can't have it both ways.

I can't tell the nature of your debates/arguments from your post,, but if your wife feels comfortable in coming to you after the event(s), whining about you getting your own way, one wonders why she didn't feel equally as comfortable defending her POV at the time.

Calling you passive, then passive aggressive. Backing down on decisions only to whine about them later, is blatantly passive-aggressive itself.

Calling you one thing, then the opposite,,, letting you think you've made a mutual decision then telling you it wasn't, is classic P-A.

Without evidence of you intimidating or coercing her,, taken at face value the evidence in your post points to your wife as being the P-A bully.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

I can relate. I've been divorced several years now, but your description reminds me of my situation.

On one hand, my x wife saw me as very laid back and calm, which I agree. On the other hand, when she was dishing out all the things she was displeased about during our divorce, one was that "everything always had to be my way." I was puzzled by that.

For example, she said we had to do the holidays and everything my way. The thing is, I don't recall being aggressive about it, which she never claimed I was anyway, we just kinda did what we did. I don't recall her being displeased at the time. There are many, many examples I could give, but I'm sure the point is made.

If everything was "my way," it's only because she allowed it. I never demanded anything or got aggressive to get my way.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

TheHappyGuy said:


> buying a new family car;
> selling the house rather than renting it out when we had to move due to her getting a job offer 350km away.
> Having the son skip a year due to his outstanding academic achievements


Can you tell us how these discussion go? Pick one of them and describe the process.

For example when you two talked about renting vs selling the house did she start out with an opinion that was different than yours? How did you arrive at the decision?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

southbound said:


> I can relate. I've been divorced several years now, but your description reminds me of my situation.
> 
> On one hand, my x wife saw me as very laid back and calm, which I agree. On the other hand, when she was dishing out all the things she was displeased about during our divorce, one was that "everything always had to be my way." I was puzzled by that.
> 
> ...


How was she supposed to not allow you to do what you wanted?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

TheHappyGuy said:


> My wife accuses me of being 'the most passive person she knows'. Lately it turned out that most decisions we made what I thought together after long consideration and discussion, she thinks I bullied her into the decision and she only agree to 'get me off her back'.
> 
> How do these things fit together? She often expects me to lead and have an opinion on things but is highly critical of the opinion if it doesn't fit into her world view.
> 
> ...


It's impossible to say if you're a bully or if she is mean. I think the more honest question would be how do you and your wife solve conflicts? How well do you two compromise? How regularly do you each feel heard by the other when discussing conflicts.

I will fight tooth and nail with my husband if I don't feel like he is hearing me. Even if I know he is right and I'm okay with things going his way, if I don't feel heard the claws come out!


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> How was she supposed to not allow you to do what you wanted?


What I mean is, I never acted aggressive to get my way, and in return, she never set her foot down and said, "look, I want to do it another way, and it means a lot to me." I know women who get quit firm in what they want, but she never voiced anything she wanted differently until we were on the verge of divorce.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

southbound said:


> What I mean is, I never acted aggressive to get my way, and in return, she never set her foot down and said, "look, I want to do it another way, and it means a lot to me." I know women who get quit firm in what they want, but she never voiced anything she wanted differently until we were on the verge of divorce.


Unfortunately, there are both men and women who do this. They are afraid to take a stand and argue their point.


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## TheHappyGuy (Aug 27, 2012)

My wife is very outspoken and never afraid to voice her opinion of which she has one on almost everything. 

How well do we make compromises? Well, that's exactly the point of this thread, I would have thought generally well, we both listen to each others opinions and ideas and then make a joint decision. Or so I thought. 

Typically it would go something like this: When it was time to move because she got a job in another town we discussed all options we had: 

Staying in the house we owned and her working away and coming home on the weekends.
All of us moving and renting out the house in case we want to come back.
Make a clean cut, sell the house and make a fresh start in the new town.
Buying a house in the new town.
Renting a house in the new town to get a feel for the market first.

We dismissed the first one quickly because we wanted to stay together. With the other options, we discussed the pros and cons of each one. We both didn't know if it was wise to sell or keep the house as an investment. It was in a high growth area. But by selling, we would be able to capitalise on a substantial gain over the last six years. She organised the real estate agent to see how much we could get. Eventually I said I'd rather sell, take the money and be done with it rather than having to look after a rental property. She agreed. But in her eyes it was my decision.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

If I were you, I would just listen and reflect the feeling. Just let her talk, basically. Then, when she has it all out, just give her a hug and go on with your day.

Don't take her mixed emotions personally. Wondering if she is being "mean" is taking her emotions personally. 

It sounds like you took a wise decision. It is over, and she will eventually come to appreciate it, regardless of her current emotions.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

TheHappyGuy said:


> My wife is very outspoken and never afraid to voice her opinion of which she has one on almost everything.
> 
> How well do we make compromises? Well, that's exactly the point of this thread, I would have thought generally well, we both listen to each others opinions and ideas and then make a joint decision. Or so I thought.
> 
> ...


Then your next question to her is: Did you feel like I railroaded you into agreeing with me? And at this point you simply let her express herself. Just because she says yes doesn't make it true. What you're doing by listening to her say yes, and explain why she felt railroaded is to find her "shut down" points. A shut down point is the limit we all have for discussing details that we find stressful.

I have a very easily reached shut down point but I understand this is entirely my issue and accordingly decisions reached because I've reached my shut down point are decision I must own too.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Allow me to offer some semi-professional :rofl: opinion. 

The items you listed are practical decisions that can be made using rational decision analysis and data collection... 

You can use numbers and alternatives written down and evaluate your options. 

For example, selling the house is a no brainer if the numbers work out - easy to prove or disprove. 

Skipping a year - generally I'm against major skips but school officials deal with this all the time so again a no brainer decision.

Could it be she makes her mind ahead of time and gets fussy if you don't go along?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I think that JLD and Anon Pink are right on. 

Your wife is not being mean. She's telling you how she feels and you need to listen to what she has to say, just listen.

What she is telling you is that she capitulated to you because, as Anon Pink says, she has shut down points. She just gave up at some point and gave into to the decision that you made. Notice in your last post you said that you made the decision... sounds like a Freudian slip to me. It does not make you bad, it just is.

The two of you need to learn how to really listen to each other and how to negotiate. I think a counselor to address this issue would be wise. 

Your wife needs to learn that she has shut-off points where she just gives up. She needs to learn that if she just shuts-off and gives up, it's on her. And you need to learn to recognize when she's shutting-off and give her room to voice her opinion further.

One way to do all of this is for the two of you to negotiate on paper. Sure you can discuss it. But with paper there's a written record. Then both of you can look back and see what went on and hopefully learn how to not make these mistakes.


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## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

Or it could be that she is passive aggressive and you're going to be on the receiving end of this as long as you're with her. 

In my case, my ex would never help or participate in any decision or project but was more than happy to critical of everything. If I said, "fine next vacation you make all the plans" then there wouldn't be a vacation because she wouldn't do anything. If I tried to get her to participate on things she would become aggressive and try to fight. There was no way to make her happy and so I stopped trying (which of course became one more thing to blame me for lol.....circular firing squad comes to mind)


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

The best way to combat passive aggressive behavior is to ignore it entirely. Why would anyone let passive aggressive griping and complaining affect them in the slightest? The key is to have a stronger sense of yourself so that the annoying buzzing of insects isn't so tiresome.

Do you feel attacked when you 5 year old complains about the vegetables he has to eat? Do you feel slighted when your teenager pouts about not having the newest iPhone? Of course not! You know your decision was the right one so you don't even entertain their griping. Same with passive aggressive complaining. Talk to the hand, you had your chance...


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

A leader- in a marriage, IMO, considers the affect of every decision upon each of those he is charged with leading. He must strive for a positive outcome for everyone -keeping the positive momentum is critical. The outcome won't always be to everyone's liking...but through consistent leadership, they will know that they were heard and considered. There is no responsibility without accountability. The leader is responsible for the outcome...always. Good or Bad. It must be accepted because he will (and should) be accountable for failures affects. 

To have a marriage and family is the greatest gift any man can have. Through it...he can live forever in the cherished memories of those he raised. A leader strives to create positive memories...not negative ones (I try to hit 99%). Neglect your family at your peril...they depend on you, the leader...failure is not acceptable. 

That's just a little of my opinion of what leadership is compared to bullying. 

A bully considers NO ONE but himself...ever. A bully in a family -in a leadership role, Creates broken people....It would be heartbreaking if they cared, but they don't.


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## SurpriseMyself (Nov 14, 2009)

It sounds like you are a reasonable person who is willing to talk things through. However, there are two sides to every story.

My H will think everything through in his head, minus my input, then come to me with what he wants to do as the answer. If I object or want to offer my perspective, it's taken as an affront. If I'm the one to start the conversation, he will often say things like "we can do X or we can do Y. Those are our choices." But in reality there are many more choices than that; his black and white thinking, or perhaps his passive aggressive tactics, get in the way of constructive conversation.

My point is, only you know how the conversations really go in your house. If she truly feels like you are being a bully, then she needs to explain what you are doing that is "bully-like." Then you have something to address and work on. 

Has she explained how you are bullying her?


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## Zouz (May 28, 2014)

Happy guy ,

I think no matter what we do in similar "decision taking events " one of the spouses will have a point to address later ; even if you do the most analytical analysis a wife might say that the trees around the old house looked better ; or the Husband might say that it was closer to the gaz station ; so the question here should decision be taken in terms of there materialistic success or their outcome as a source of happiness?

At the end ; the most important is that even if one of the spouses feels one time sacrificing in some decision ; he/she should be able to have a positive role before the making , not after month or year ; which is in this case only a way to critisize to secure better future benefits.

My wife still reminds me at every similar occasion about the choice of our bedroom ;all what I remember at that time is that I just mentioned my preference and she did not refuse ; but it seems at that time we were still engaged and didn't want to spoil her image ;I wish she did !


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## TheHappyGuy (Aug 27, 2012)

SurpriseMyself said:


> It sounds like you are a reasonable person who is willing to talk things through. However, there are two sides to every story.
> 
> My H will think everything through in his head, minus my input, then come to me with what he wants to do as the answer. If I object or want to offer my perspective, it's taken as an affront. If I'm the one to start the conversation, he will often say things like "we can do X or we can do Y. Those are our choices." But in reality there are many more choices than that; his black and white thinking, or perhaps his passive aggressive tactics, get in the way of constructive conversation.
> 
> ...


She hasn't explained it in terms that I understand. She's not unhappy with the decisions, she just doesn't feel heard when she voices her opinion. However, this is not true. I listen to her opinions and I might say something like 'yes, we could do it that way/yes this would work but this and that are the downsides,etc.' All options are then still on the table and being discussed. But at some point a decision needs to be made because a lot of these things have deadlines and we can't move on without a decision. If at this point she doesn't like the decision, she needs to say ' I don't want to do it that way' rather than keep talking about the options. She also often uses hindsight to justify that she was right, which really pisses me off.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

> She also often uses hindsight to justify that she was right, which really pisses me off.


Seems like she is more worried about being right, than being happy. She wants you to fail, so she doesn't suggest anything, because she doesn't respect you. She wants to prove her opinion of you is correct. You can't win when you are up against this. This is inside her. Something(s) you did in the past, along with her life experience(s) have caused her to look for the problems to come instead of the little successes, and build on them. She has given up.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> Then your next question to her is: Did you feel like I railroaded you into agreeing with me? And at this point you simply let her express herself. Just because she says yes doesn't make it true. What you're doing by listening to her say yes, and explain why she felt railroaded is to find her "shut down" points. A shut down point is the limit we all have for discussing details that we find stressful.
> 
> I have a very easily reached shut down point but I understand this is entirely my issue and accordingly decisions reached because I've reached my shut down point are decision I must own too.


Ooh, you're good. Really, lots of great suggestions and wisdom coming from you across this board. Kudos.


TheHappyGuy - is there a reason why she's brought these scenarios up now, after the fact? 

The reason I ask, and maybe this relates to your situation, maybe it doesn't but writing from my own personal experience yesterday, I was a d*ck-head to my husband. I felt overwhelmed with stress and instead of behaving in a constructive way, I second-guessed decisions we'd made (together) and began a weak ass attempt to direct blame his way. He reminded me that we needed to be on each others team, that he felt I was trying to blame him and called me out on my tone. 

Later in the day, I recognized how crappy my behavior had been. Instead of helping with solutions, I'd gone to the dark side. I told him, 'I was an absolute sh!t-bag to you and I'm really sorry. You don't deserve that.' He easily forgave but asked where it came from. Although there's no excuse, I told him it was because I'd felt overwhelmed and highly stressed. He then suggested I/we find a way to manage that stress together. I think he was then trying to flirt with me but I was still feeling too crappy about it all to flirt back. In summary - I can be an idiot. Maybe that's true for your wife too. 

Or maybe you do need to listen more?


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## TheHappyGuy (Aug 27, 2012)

Thanks for all the responses. 

Heartsbeating, great that you and your husband are able to work things out quickly. I also often suggest to try and find a solution to a particular problem together rather than dwell on the past and work out who's to blame. Much more constructive in my view.

I think I listen well enough but my partner doesn't experience that. I have to find a way to show her that I listen and value her opinion because I think that's where the disconnect is. 

2ntnuf, you hit the nail on the head. But that's a (long) different story. I was actually quite shocked how well you assessed the situation without any background info about me and my partner. Especially the part about things I did in the past and her life experiences causing her to see problems rather than solutions. 

The sad thing is, she is incredibly intelligent and has a very analytical brain but when emotions come into play she is a different person.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

TheHappyGuy said:


> Thanks for all the responses.
> 
> Heartsbeating, great that you and your husband are able to work things out quickly. I also often suggest to try and find a solution to a particular problem together rather than dwell on the past and work out who's to blame. Much more constructive in my view.
> 
> ...


Thank you. 

I guess we are all this way to a certain extent. I don't know what to tell you about that. I don't know much about mental illness, other than depression and my experience with anxiety. I would think that would be a great place to start with a counselor, even if you had to go for a while. I'm sure it's worth the effort. Right?

ETA: And I said, even if you have to go for a while because, maybe she won't want to go and after going yourself, you will learn coping skills, and better methods of communication Who knows, you might just get her there with you, if you show her you are putting in the effort to understand?


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## TheHappyGuy (Aug 27, 2012)

We've been to MC and after seven sessions the counsellor told us he can't do anything else for us and he doesn't know if our relationship will survive. We had some glorious fights in front of him and his advice was to slow things down a lot and listen to each other more. 

We're now booked in with a different counsellor for one last attempt.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I'm sorry. My best wishes are with you.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

TheHappyGuy said:


> We've been to MC and after seven sessions the counsellor told us he can't do anything else for us and he doesn't know if our relationship will survive. We had some glorious fights in front of him and his advice was to slow things down a lot and listen to each other more.
> 
> We're now booked in with a different counsellor for one last attempt.


It's good that you're both still engaged enough to work on your marriage.

We never had full-blown arguments in front of our counsellor. If we started to spiral, he'd have us pause, then perhaps speak one at a time to answer specific questions in order to provide insight. At one session, he asked if he could speak on my behalf and communicated exactly how I felt but in a different way that my husband was able to hear/understand better. That approach was great for me - to hear a different way of communicating (I obviously still have work to do!) as well as for my husband to gain greater clarity. It went both ways though.

Wishing you and your wife all the best and hope you keep us updated.


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