# New situation waw, midlife crisis, help please?



## lostinlife#1 (Nov 25, 2013)

All need some help with my situation. End of October wife of 15 years said she was done, numb. No counsiling, nothing. Two young children ages 7 and 5. Been doing a lot of reading here and working on me. Attempting 180 and going dark tough still living together. Children know nothing yet. First 2 weeks did all the wrong things ... Cry, beg, plead, letters. She is wanting to go so fast 3 lawyers first week. Mediation session for info jointly in the last week. Please help me through this time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

She is having an affair!


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## lostinlife#1 (Nov 25, 2013)

A bit more information: she is rewriting history that 100% of the time together had been a "waste". Biggest issues we have had have been around communication and conflict resolution. Money has not been an issue, nor has sex, nor has parenting, nor has division of labor. Very few disagreements 2-3 per year. I have thought about the EA or PA possibility although has been asked and answered the same 3 times. "No" twice as we have been discussing once in front of councilor. I really do want to save our marriage but
Not sure how. For the first 2 weeks she was so cold almost unhuman. Finally now the last couple weeks I have started to see some emotion. She believes I am incapable of change, I do believe this is fixable. I have been pouring through stuff on here as well as the divorce remedy book. I just short term feel unsure how to slow her down till she can see through the "fog".
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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

lostinlife#1 said:


> A bit more information: she is rewriting history that 100% of the time together had been a "waste". Biggest issues we have had have been around communication and conflict resolution. Money has not been an issue, nor has sex, nor has parenting, nor has division of labor. Very few disagreements 2-3 per year. I have thought about the EA or PA possibility although has been asked and answered the same 3 times. "No" twice as we have been discussing once in front of councilor. I really do want to save our marriage but
> Not sure how. For the first 2 weeks she was so cold almost unhuman. Finally now the last couple weeks I have started to see some emotion. She believes I am incapable of change, I do believe this is fixable. I have been pouring through stuff on here as well as the divorce remedy book. I just short term feel unsure how to slow her down till she can see through the "fog".
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Dude. This screams affair. You need to investigate hard and fast. She is lying or she never loved you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

nogutsnoglory said:


> Dude. This screams affair. You need to investigate hard and fast. She is lying or she never loved you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree:
Voice activated recorders in her car and around the house.

Sounds like you have to act fast.

Separate bank accounts asap.

Lawyer up asap.


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## Aerith (May 17, 2013)

lostinlife#1 said:


> A bit more information: she is rewriting history that 100% of the time together had been a "waste". Biggest issues we have had have been around communication and conflict resolution. Money has not been an issue, nor has sex, nor has parenting, nor has division of labor. Very few disagreements 2-3 per year. I have thought about the EA or PA possibility although has been asked and answered the same 3 times. "No" twice as we have been discussing once in front of councilor. I really do want to save our marriage but
> Not sure how. For the first 2 weeks she was so cold almost unhuman. Finally now the last couple weeks I have started to see some emotion. She believes I am incapable of change, I do believe this is fixable. I have been pouring through stuff on here as well as the divorce remedy book. I just short term feel unsure how to slow her down till she can see through the "fog".
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Your wife doesn't like the way you communicate? What was the nature of disagreements? Divorce demand very rarely appears out of the blue - usually there is a path leading to it with many signs - attentive person would notice.

What changes your wife wanted you to make? Did she ask you to make those changes before?

If not, she should give you some time to work on yourself and show her that you can do it. If she asked you before and it was ignored - then it's more difficult to persuade her to wait and see...

Not sure if she is in the fog or not but definitely she is emotional.


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

Yeah everything you are saying absolutely screams an affair. Rewriting history, believing you are incapable of change, no other major recent catalysts, a very sudden and intense desire on her part to divorce quickly, incredible coldness, etc.

When you discover the affair, remember that most of what is driving this action on her part has very little to do with you. The things she has complained about, her assertion that you can't change, etc. are just excuses.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

cdbaker said:


> Yeah everything you are saying absolutely screams an affair. Rewriting history, believing you are incapable of change, no other major recent catalysts, a very sudden and intense desire on her part to divorce quickly, incredible coldness, etc.
> 
> When you discover the affair, remember that most of what is driving this action on her part has very little to do with you. The things she has complained about, her assertion that you can't change, etc. are just excuses.


:iagree:Are you able to check her phone records.
Does she work or is she a sahm?


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## lostinlife#1 (Nov 25, 2013)

She actually makes more money than I do. Communication I will most defiantly shoulder some of that responsibility. When we would disagree about something I would need time to process my response while she wanted to work it through then and there. Rather than be able to verbalize this to he that I needed some time early in the relationship I would be "silent". This is in me I had this behavior modeled for me early in life by relatives. Not right and I understand that now. The last 2 yrs or so I was doing better at telling her I need some time to process and would bring back up in a few hrs or so one I processed internally. As far as changes she has a hard time articulating them together, I think it's more of our love languages being different. Again not that one is right or wrong they are different. Me I like acts of kindness while hers now I realize are words of affection. I am trying to take this one day at a time and show her change but I know that she has built up such a wall of protection she may not ever let me back in. It just seems as there are so many levers to pull she is reluctant... Counciling for 6 months, separation, I cannot fathom splitting up an intact family without trying everything first?
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## Kolors (Sep 27, 2013)

Above all else, calm down. Whether she is unhappy with you and it has built up for years or whether she is trying to find (or has found) someone or something else, you have to calm down first.

I made the mistake of freaking out and doing the same things you did for a good month and a half. It makes us look weak as men and further reinforces the negative light that women see us in.

If she has said that divorce is 100% the only remedy for her then I don't believe there is much that you can do. The 180 works really well for building you back up and keeping you from causing yourself any additional pain. It sometimes has the side effect of your spouse seeing you differently but it is about you.

How far along are you two? Has she refused a trial separation? Have you agreed to the divorce?

And seriously above all else, keep it away from the kids until they absolutely have to know.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

As others have suggested, something or someone has caught her attention. Have the two of you discussed situations in the past. Has she asked repeatedly for you to change? Have you had any ultimatums before from her?

I too was married 15 years, good marriage, never had any real fights, she never asked me to change anything about me. Then the wheels came off fast and hard. Suddenly her entire life with me was a mistake, everything was my fault. I heard the I dont think you will ever change speech, everything you heard. I went from being the love of her life to a monster in 6 weeks in her eyes. She was having an affair, they will lie about it to anyone and everyone, you counselors, everyone. 

Your wife may not be having an affair but do some investigative work before you throw yourself on the sword and take all the blame. If you feel you can improve yourself in certain areas, work on those, you should whether its divorce or not but there is probably a catalyst behind the sudden change. Find out what that is.


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## lostinlife#1 (Nov 25, 2013)

No ultimatums before, no mention of divorce prior. Some discussion of communication type issues. In my mind we are not far along at all. No discussion of separation, and no I have not agreed to a divorce.
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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

I've gotta ask, despite nearly everyone here suggesting that she is likely having an affair of some kind, it sounds like you've mostly ignored it. Is there a reason for that? Have you been checking all the obvious places for signs of an affair? (Cell phone records, notes in her car, e-mail/Facebook use, pre-paid phones, etc.?)


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## lostinlife#1 (Nov 25, 2013)

No not ignoring the possibility of EA/PA just don't think that is it. There are a few things in place that will shake that out in time if that is it. It seems like its 50/50 based on who I talk to. Meaning if someone was hurt in that way previously they jump to that conclusion here. If not the objectivity is more prevalent. I do think this is certainly possible, but am guessing not. I'd rather not reveal the things in place to sort this out, but suffice to say they are in place. Also thanks to all that have posted it does help outside perspectives.
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## Keenwa (Oct 26, 2013)

hmm... well I'm the other side of this story. I flipped my lid a few months ago, and it was not an affair but rather that my personality is to take the weight of everyone's problems on my hands and then I break. So this is what I did in my marriage, I had tried to communicate to him things that were important to me over the years but he never heard me, I gave up, thinking "men are just different"... and I sucked it up. Then other factors came into play, he lost his job, I started working more, and still taking care of kids, house etc... and finally I cracked from the combination of the disillusionment of who he was, as I watched him spend his time watching podcasts all day long while I worked, the financial stress, trying to help him find a job etc etc. I had an aha moment one day when I decided that maybe what I needed in life was not someone who sucked the energy out of me, another child per se, but a partner, a real partner. Someone who gives me energy and makes me feel like I am not alone. Someone who walks beside me and not someone I need to take care of. 

And so, it began, my husband had "no idea" I was unhappy or that anything was wrong with the relationship. Not sure how that is possible since we had not had sex more than maybe twice in two years, I had given up planning dates, since he didn't seem to give a crap about that, it was just awful. But to him, I guess it seemed normal. I can't wrap my head around this, and how he could have thought all was well. 

After months of therapy we have been told that we are co-dependent, we don't communicate well at all, and it's true. I have not told him how I feel, and he, well he doesn't even know how he feels most of the time. I take responsibility for my part in this, but I am like your wife, I don't think he can change. However, I have given him a chance, as much as I have wanted to leave, we have stuck it out, gone for therapy, both of us, as well as couples counselling and it's been really helpful. After all, if you have kids, you need to have a functional relationship if you are together or not. So it's worth it. It's hard to stay in a house when you don't feel like you love the person but running away is not the answer either. 

So... I wouldn't say that it is necessarily an affair, but maybe just that sometimes we reach our breaking point.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Yes, we can be quick to jump at affair after getting burned. That I wont deny. But its better to gather information than to have the deer in the headlight look. Some surprises in life you dont want. 

She obviously wants to move things along quickly, has she asked you to leave the house? Has she talked about the children at all, whose will keep custody etc. Women in general rarely just spring divorce unless they have either been planning it for a while or something much better is on the horizon and they just want to go. Again generally if they have been planning it awhile they dont rewrite history etc. 

You like so many of us, begged, pleaded, probably promised the moon and stars to make it work when she first brought it up. Only her seeing real change in you or her coming to a realization that the world isnt going to be better without you are about they only ways the divorce wont proceed. We dont know the full backstory here but something has brought this to a flashpoint in her mind.


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## lostinlife#1 (Nov 25, 2013)

Keenwa said:


> hmm... well I'm the other side of this story. I flipped my lid a few months ago, and it was not an affair but rather that my personality is to take the weight of everyone's problems on my hands and then I break. So this is what I did in my marriage, I had tried to communicate to him things that were important to me over the years but he never heard me, I gave up, thinking "men are just different"... and I sucked it up. Then other factors came into play, he lost his job, I started working more, and still taking care of kids, house etc... and finally I cracked from the combination of the disillusionment of who he was, as I watched him spend his time watching podcasts all day long while I worked, the financial stress, trying to help him find a job etc etc. I had an aha moment one day when I decided that maybe what I needed in life was not someone who sucked the energy out of me, another child per se, but a partner, a real partner. Someone who gives me energy and makes me feel like I am not alone. Someone who walks beside me and not someone I need to take care of.
> 
> And so, it began, my husband had "no idea" I was unhappy or that anything was wrong with the relationship. Not sure how that is possible since we had not had sex more than maybe twice in two years, I had given up planning dates, since he didn't seem to give a crap about that, it was just awful. But to him, I guess it seemed normal. I can't wrap my head around this, and how he could have thought all was well.
> 
> ...


Keenwa thank you very much for your insight. In some ways I think that is really it. A breaking point of sorts has been reached. What I don't fully understand is I felt the slipping and even asked months ago if things were "ok". The answer was yes fine. I don't understand how someone can say I have tried everything possible, without going to counciling for a time period, or agreeing to a trial separation, or other things. I am willing to work on my faults and make real lasting changes I have committed this to myself, my spouse, and my children who know nothing of this nor will they till absolutely necessary. But what I cannot get my head wrapped around is that communication must have accountability by both parties. And doing more of something that doesn't work over and over again, is not the same as trying a different approach (doing everything) prior to braking up an intact family. I know her "wall of protection" is so fortified I will not be allowed in certainly short term possibly ever again, my only hope is that family, friends, and time along with positive action on my part can bring out the person that I still love. With the utmost respect. Thanks to all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

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Keenwa said:


> hmm... well I'm the other side of this story. I flipped my lid a few months ago, and it was not an affair but rather that my personality is to take the weight of everyone's problems on my hands and then I break. So this is what I did in my marriage, I had tried to communicate to him things that were important to me over the years but he never heard me, I gave up, thinking "men are just different"... and I sucked it up. Then other factors came into play, he lost his job, I started working more, and still taking care of kids, house etc... and finally I cracked from the combination of the disillusionment of who he was, as I watched him spend his time watching podcasts all day long while I worked, the financial stress, trying to help him find a job etc etc. I had an aha moment one day when I decided that maybe what I needed in life was not someone who sucked the energy out of me, another child per se, but a partner, a real partner. Someone who gives me energy and makes me feel like I am not alone. Someone who walks beside me and not someone I need to take care of.
> 
> And so, it began, my husband had "no idea" I was unhappy or that anything was wrong with the relationship. Not sure how that is possible since we had not had sex more than maybe twice in two years, I had given up planning dates, since he didn't seem to give a crap about that, it was just awful. But to him, I guess it seemed normal. I can't wrap my head around this, and how he could have thought all was well.
> 
> ...


Excellent post. I think this is what happened to my wife. She even told me she felt like she was my mother. I have since detached and took on a more leadership role. I have started working out and spent more time alone at my bay house. And slowly things are starting to turn around. I don't if it wil be enough for me, but I am going to keep trying until I can't hack it anymore.


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## X-B (Jul 25, 2013)

A voice activated recorder will show the hard ugly truth. I am so sorry you are here.


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## lostinlife#1 (Nov 25, 2013)

Thanks all for the support and insight. I really do appreciate it more to come .... Stay tuned. Last night she gets "mad" when I tell her I am not ready to start the paperwork to begin mediation process. Ugh
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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Does all this seem out of character for her? What kind of hours does she keep? Does she go out with her girl friends?

Put a var under her car seat with velcro. The sony models around 50 dollars usually give answers within a couple of days.

Keylog home computer.

Check phone bill for high text, call usage to cetain numbers.

Does she keep her phone glued to her side?

Do you have access to all her passwords to email, phone etc.?


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## lostinlife#1 (Nov 25, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> Does all this seem out of character for her? What kind of hours does she keep? Does she go out with her girl friends?
> 
> Put a var under her car seat with velcro. The sony models around 50 dollars usually give answers within a couple of days.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lostinlife#1 (Nov 25, 2013)

Yes very much out of character. Regular hours, no going out with girlfriends before or now. Yes phone is glued to side no access to records it's a "work" phone and computer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Well have you let family know what's up with her. Ask for their support.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

lostinlife#1 said:


> Keenwa thank you very much for your insight. In some ways I think that is really it. A breaking point of sorts has been reached. What I don't fully understand is I felt the slipping and even asked months ago if things were "ok". The answer was yes fine. I don't understand how someone can say I have tried everything possible, without going to counciling for a time period, or agreeing to a trial separation, or other things. I am willing to work on my faults and make real lasting changes I have committed this to myself, my spouse, and my children who know nothing of this nor will they till absolutely necessary. But what I cannot get my head wrapped around is that communication must have accountAbility by both parties. And doing more of something that doesn't work over and over again, is not the same as trying a different approach (doing everything) prior to braking up an intact family. I know her "wall of protection" is so fortified I will not be allowed in certainly short term possibly ever again, my only hope is that family, friends, and time along with positive action on my part can bring out the person that I still love. With the utmost respect. Thanks to all.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Most of this post seems to really sound like you are trying to break down her position from a purely logical point of view, and it'll get you no where unfortunately. In fact it'll set you back if you share these lines of thinking with your wife. You can't argue with emotion, you can't argue with feelings. 

For instance, if she says, "I feel like you just never cared about me." You can argue that all day long, pointing out all the things you've done for her, all the ways you tried to show her love, all the money you spent on her, major burdens you've carried for her, how you have been loyal to her, etc. etc. etc. But at the end of the day, that is how she feels, and there is nothing you can do to change that. You might be able to convince a jury of your case, but not her. In fact you'll just frustrate her even more and make her believe in her feeling even more so by your non-empathetic behavior.


I get what Keenwa is saying, and certainly that is a possibility, but I'm still definitely thinking that there is another man in the picture in some capacity...


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

lostinlife#1 said:


> Keenwa thank you very much for your insight. In some ways I think that is really it. A breaking point of sorts has been reached. What I don't fully understand is I felt the slipping and even asked months ago if things were "ok". The answer was yes fine. I don't understand how someone can say I have tried everything possible, without going to counciling for a time period, or agreeing to a trial separation, or other things. I am willing to work on my faults and make real lasting changes I have committed this to myself, my spouse, and my children who know nothing of this nor will they till absolutely necessary. But what I cannot get my head wrapped around is that communication must have accountAbility by both parties. And doing more of something that doesn't work over and over again, is not the same as trying a different approach (doing everything) prior to braking up an intact family. I know her "wall of protection" is so fortified I will not be allowed in certainly short term possibly ever again, my only hope is that family, friends, and time along with positive action on my part can bring out the person that I still love. With the utmost respect. Thanks to all.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Forget about all this "working on your faults" stuff until you find out if your wife is having an affair. It's overwhelmingly likely that's the issue here, not any "faults" you have. You're scrambling around trying to think of what you've done wrong to make your wife want to leave and how you can fix it, when that's probably not the problem. 

Everyone's telling you where to shift your focus and you're not taking them seriously. We realize your wife told you she's not having an affair, but do you realize cheaters lie?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

If she is cheating, she won't admit it. If she is cheating she will lie like a dog until you shove indisputable proof right under her nose.

Since you can't get to her computer or phone, play dumb, say nothing more about cheating. Get a voice activated recorder, sony $50 or so, heavy duty velcro, at bestbuy and stick it under the drivers seat.

Keeping a death grip on her phone is the number one red flag for cheating spouses.

Where does she charge it at night. Try to get it and see what is on it. Hopefully she doesn't keep it under her pillow.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Chaparral said:


> If she is cheating, she won't admit it. If she is cheating she will lie like a dog until you shove indisputable proof right under her nose.
> 
> Since you can't get to her computer or phone, play dumb, say nothing more about cheating. Get a voice activated recorder, sony $50 or so, heavy duty velcro, at bestbuy and stick it under the drivers seat.
> 
> ...


And then just call her phone to unlock it.


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## lostinlife#1 (Nov 25, 2013)

It's under her pillow.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

lostinlife#1 said:


> It's under her pillow.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


There's your answer. She's cheating on you.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

lostinlife#1 said:


> it's under her pillow.
> _posted via mobile device_


ohh noooh


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

If you think she is having an A no soft confronts

Have all the fact you can get

Weightlifter will give you some detailed advice on this


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Have you had any suspicions about any coworkers? I would start there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

lostinlife#1 said:


> It's under her pillow.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I usually try to hold off on affair comments, but this bad. Maybe not an affair, but I would be surprised if it wasnt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

lostinlife#1 said:


> It's under her pillow.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I usually try to hold off on affair comments, but this bad. Maybe not an affair, but I would be surprised if it wasnt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lostinlife#1 (Nov 25, 2013)

VAC's are in place don't think that's it. I will use this time over thanksgiving for a lot if soul searching? I am past most of the hurt. My heart is now getting hard/numb to her not to all. To be betrayed by the one you love the most even saying I want a divorce, there will be no counciling is the most pain anyone can feel. Very angry today, less for me but more for the fact she will break up an intact family. Because she believes she did "everything" and in reality she did "nothing". I will survive, and our kids will be great. Today I say - **** her - go if you want to go I don't need you anymore and maybe deep down I am done to. I am still unsure if she cheated, and honestly does it matter? Regardless of that someday she will be judged by god and herself, Her family, and her friends.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

If you are sure you do not want to investigate an affair, its almost a certainty, ask her to see her phone. When she says no,.tell her everyone said she would do that if she has a boyfriend. Watch her closely then say, no matter what she says, so its true then. Then just walk away.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Depending on the state you live in, adultery may make a big difference in divorce proceedings.


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

lostinlife#1 said:


> VAC's are in place don't think that's it. I will use this time over thanksgiving for a lot if soul searching? I am past most of the hurt. My heart is now getting hard/numb to her not to all. To be betrayed by the one you love the most even saying I want a divorce, there will be no counciling is the most pain anyone can feel. Very angry today, less for me but more for the fact she will break up an intact family. Because she believes she did "everything" and in reality she did "nothing". I will survive, and our kids will be great. Today I say - **** her - go if you want to go I don't need you anymore and maybe deep down I am done to. I am still unsure if she cheated, and honestly does it matter? Regardless of that someday she will be judged by god and herself, Her family, and her friends.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


love to hear your rug sweeping reasoning as to why she is keeping her phone under her pillow if there is no affair.

Have you told her family yet how she is acting?
Are you giving her any consequences for her treating you this way?
Have you hired your lawyer? screw mediation. She wants that to happen fast so she can't have her reputation run through the mud and depending on the state you are in lose some of her parenting leverage in the D. She can't take it to the next level with OM until you are gone, so she is in a hurry. Do not make it easy on her. Hire a lawyer. She is cheating, you just will not listen. You have no other reason, it makes perfect sense, and her phone is under her pillow.


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

If you will not listen to the overwhelming consent of the experience on this board, there is no hope for you. You are wrong, she is cheating.


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## lostinlife#1 (Nov 25, 2013)

VAC's in place. Most have said this will bear fruit in <2 weeks if there. Lawyer appt is next week. I am listening. I am guarding pace as the one thing I can and will controll. Thanks!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

It matter cuz you need to know were your battle lies.

See you spent weeks working on your self and trying to be a better husband.

Were as if you knew about an affair right off the bat you would have changed your tactic.

See you can't compete with new love and you were making all these efforts for not. She might already have some one doing all these things for her and here you are working and begging for a marriage that is infected by other influence.

At least if you do get confirmation that there is an affair at least you know the marriage is over until your wife stops all contact with OM.

Once my old lady took her cell out from under her pillow and stopped all contact with OM I then had a chance at addressing the marriage and not compete with a replacement.


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## JohnC_depressed (Dec 6, 2012)

Such an abrupt ending to a long term marriage with children and no counseling etc... screams that there is someone else in the picture. This sucks but don't let her re-write history, blame you etc.. She is trashing an intact family not you. Sorry man.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Cubby said:


> Forget about all this "working on your faults" stuff until you find out if your wife is having an affair. It's overwhelmingly likely that's the issue here, not any "faults" you have. You're scrambling around trying to think of what you've done wrong to make your wife want to leave and how you can fix it, when that's probably not the problem.
> 
> Everyone's telling you where to shift your focus and you're not taking them seriously. We realize your wife told you she's not having an affair, but do you realize cheaters lie?


Why? Working on yourself is always a good thing as it makes you a better person and partner. Completely separate issue from possible cheating.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

manfromlamancha said:


> She is having an affair!


She is having an affair!

And is lying to you!

You need to get proof - she is not going to tell you unless she has to.

You need to listen to everyone here who is giving you advice to separate finances, get legal advice, work on yourself and focus on getting proof before filing for D.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

lifeistooshort said:


> Why? Working on yourself is always a good thing as it makes you a better person and partner. Completely separate issue from possible cheating.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Definitely work on yourself. Get the two books linked to in my signature. They will help you immensely.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> Definitely work on yourself. Get the two books linked to in my signature. They will help you immensely.


Yes, and I agree that sleeping with the phone under her pillow is pretty damning evidence.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

The only red flag as bad as sleeping on the phone(so you can't get to it) is if she swears on anyone's (especially her children) life that she is not cheating.

If you get a chance to grab her phone, someone said you can call it with your phone and bypass the password.


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## lostinlife#1 (Nov 25, 2013)

Nothing on the VAR's after 5 days. We were separate over holidays each back with our family's. She came back more determined than ever that D is the "right" answer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Sounds like cheating. At this point you have little to lose by sneaking her phone from under her pillow. But any case accept divorce. Do you own much together?

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

Do the 180. Work on yourself and focus on your children.

Keep a watchful eye out for evidence.

Something is happening with her. Do not trust.

Give her the freedom she wants.

You deserve better.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Ask a friend to follow her with a camera.


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## lostinlife#1 (Nov 25, 2013)

Thanks to all for the continued support. Meeting with a couple lawyers tomorrow as info sessions and bringing balance sheet info for guidance, checking credit cards and other bank accts every day. I still believe the marriage is "fixable" but realize the commitment must come from both. For me running Dailey, stopped all alcohol, working on the 180, detachment, and focusing on the kids. Strength to all and thanks!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Hang in there Buddy. You will be ok.


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## lostinlife#1 (Nov 25, 2013)

Met w 2 lawyers for consults and advise found one I will likely work with that I liked combination of legal and councilng. We have a plan only time will tell strength to all, focus on the kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

Yes from what you say it sounds like an affair.
Do the investigating and see what it's about. You have the VAR so that's good. 
Keylogger on the computer
Watch her Facebook and other social media
You need the password for her phone. 
Watch close, it will all come out. Also read and learn with the books Chapperal stated.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

lostinlife#1 said:


> Thanks to all for the continued support. Meeting with a couple lawyers tomorrow as info sessions and bringing balance sheet info for guidance, checking credit cards and other bank accts every day. I still believe the marriage is "fixable" but realize the commitment must come from both. For me running Dailey, stopped all alcohol, working on the 180, detachment, and focusing on the kids. Strength to all and thanks!!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have read everything you posted here. Your wife has years of hurts she has tried to work thru and maybe tried to talk to you (I don't know) about and feels there is no resolved. She doesn't believe you can change and by this post you feel like you know some of the issues and are trying now but if she has passed thru that doorway and moved on in her head, she is not coming back. I feel for you and the situation but a women will endure to a point and then when she leaves, she is done.


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## lostinlife#1 (Nov 25, 2013)

Avr 1962 your post I think is spot on, I know some of the issues, now but had no idea how severe they were in her mind. Also I am very puzzled and angry at how she can call it quits without counciling, intervention, separation or something else to say that all options have been exhausted. So confused about that?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Honorbound (Nov 19, 2013)

lostinlife#1 said:


> Avr 1962 your post I think is spot on, I know some of the issues, now but had no idea how severe they were in her mind. Also I am very puzzled and angry at how she can call it quits without counciling, intervention, separation or something else to say that all options have been exhausted. So confused about that?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Join the club , brother. Mine did the same thing after nearly 10 years of mostly happy. She tells everyone she 'tried', but I pointed out that simply going to bed each night (after telling me she loved me) and waking up the next day expecting something to be completely different - without saying anything to anyone - is more the definition of 'insanity' than 'trying'. When I point out that refusing to go to any kind of counseling is really only something a cheater would do after things have been so good for so long, she either shuts up or tries to change the subject. I have yet to get an answer and likely never will.

If she is 'acting' like a cheater and pretty much following the cheater's script to the letter... she is almost certainly cheating - ours were just better at hiding it than others.

Plus, you kind of _have_ to assume that they are or might as well be... don't you? Either way she betrayed you, knowingly hurt you, and is trying to re-write history to make it all your fault and get people to feel sorry for her - all to justify actions that she _knows_ are wrong. The only thing you can do is cut her loose and be the best man you can be...

I'm trying to look at it as mine did me a favor. I don't want someone capable of such callous betrayal, lack of empathy, and total disregard for honor in my life anyway. Do you?


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## lostinlife#1 (Nov 25, 2013)

Honorbound good post and good perspective. I have had some thoughts exactly as you state, why try? Why keep on pushing, why do I want to "take her back?" What if she cheated, what if not and if she is just that twisted in her head right now? All possible, all maybe valid on some level. I guess the thing is I am not ready in my head or heart to throw in the towel. Someday long down the road if the kids ever ask I want to be able to tell them "daddy tried" he really did. I need to be able to look myself in the mirror in 2, 5, 10, 15, whatever years and say yep even though it didn't work I can and know I did it "right". I tried, I didn't pack it in early, just cause it got "hard" or "difficult". I am not there yet. Does that make sense at all? Again thanks to all for listening and provoking thought.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Honorbound (Nov 19, 2013)

lostinlife#1 said:


> Honorbound good post and good perspective. I have had some thoughts exactly as you state, why try? Why keep on pushing, why do I want to "take her back?" What if she cheated, what if not and if she is just that twisted in her head right now? All possible, all maybe valid on some level. I guess the thing is I am not ready in my head or heart to throw in the towel. Someday long down the road if the kids ever ask I want to be able to tell them "daddy tried" he really did. I need to be able to look myself in the mirror in 2, 5, 10, 15, whatever years and say yep even though it didn't work I can and know I did it "right". I tried, I didn't pack it in early, just cause it got "hard" or "difficult". I am not there yet. Does that make sense at all? Again thanks to all for listening and provoking thought.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That makes perfect sense to me. I am much the same. Unfortunately, our method of 'trying' is much more likely to push them away faster, farther, and with more hard feelings than anything else will. I can tell you from experience that there is no reasoning with them. Logic does not compute. Everything gets twisted and ends up further reinforcing their decision to leave. Same with appealing to their sense of right and wrong - it is totally backwards from where it should be (that is what the whole history re-writes are all about). That goes for trying to point out the 'Good Times', too.

All of the above is why they do not want to go to counseling. Even IC. They do not want someone - you don't count - to point out all of the screwiness in their thinking. It is the 'fog' you hear people talk about on here. Whether it is the affair 'fog' or a different kind, I don't know... but the end result is the same.

You really do have to treat it counter intuitively if you want her to ever come out of it. Go 180 on her. Go NC other than about the kids. Work on being the best man and father you can be. Give her the divorce papers. Act like you are happy she is gone. Don't be manic about it, just calm, cool, and collected whenever dealing with her. _Show_ her what she is missing - don't bother trying to tell her. If she still doesn't regain her sense, _then_ you can tell the kids that you really tried. There really isn't much else you can do at this point, since the only person you can control - is you. I can assure you, in your present situation, anything else you do will only make things worse.

It is like that old sappy saying - "If you love something set it free. If it returns it is yours. If it doesn't... it never was."

I know it is hard and I am sorry you are going through this, but the above advice really is the best thing I know to do (from experience). Stay strong, brother.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

LostinLife#1 and HonorBound, I read both replies. I do not know your wives and your situations but what I can tell you is that many times we wives are expressing our needs and hurts and we are not being heard by our husbands. Perhaps not the case in either of your marriages. I think if I were to walk out on my husband today he would be clueless and he would not be able to look at his own actions that may have caused the lead up. As far as either of your wives feeling like the victim when you feel you are trying, they very well probably will see it just the opposite.

My husband had a career which I am very thankful for and he has always been very dedicated to his line of work but when it came to help at home and with the kids it was pretty nonexistent. If I were to say that to him however, he would probably disagree. I think he felt once he got done with work his day was over and he needed the rest of his time for himself and was not involved with family so much. I would have to suggest/prompt/ask him to help out. He didn't even want to make decisions concerning the kids, he wanted me to take care of all of that. Had I been a stay at home mom perhaps it would not have been as hard but I have always worked part time. I raised 5 kids with little input from him and most times I felt like I was single (alone) because he was so caught up in his own interests and his own activities.....watching football, playing games on the computer, drinking with the guys. The dating and showing an interest in me stopped when we married.....he showed more interest in other women than me after we married. All of this was hard and hurtful for me. I don't know if you either can identify with any of this yourselves but women don't leave a man they are in love with and feel treated well by.


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## Honorbound (Nov 19, 2013)

AVR1962 said:


> LostinLife#1 and HonorBound, I read both replies. I do not know your wives and your situations but what I can tell you is that many times we wives are expressing our needs and hurts and we are not being heard by our husbands. Perhaps not the case in either of your marriages. I think if I were to walk out on my husband today he would be clueless and he would not be able to look at his own actions that may have caused the lead up. As far as either of your wives feeling like the victim when you feel you are trying, they very well probably will see it just the opposite.
> 
> My husband had a career which I am very thankful for and he has always been very dedicated to his line of work but when it came to help at home and with the kids it was pretty nonexistent. If I were to say that to him however, he would probably disagree. I think he felt once he got done with work his day was over and he needed the rest of his time for himself and was not involved with family so much. I would have to suggest/prompt/ask him to help out. He didn't even want to make decisions concerning the kids, he wanted me to take care of all of that. Had I been a stay at home mom perhaps it would not have been as hard but I have always worked part time. I raised 5 kids with little input from him and most times I felt like I was single (alone) because he was so caught up in his own interests and his own activities.....watching football, playing games on the computer, drinking with the guys. The dating and showing an interest in me stopped when we married.....he showed more interest in other women than me after we married. All of this was hard and hurtful for me. I don't know if you either can identify with any of this yourselves but women don't leave a man they are in love with and feel treated well by.


I wish mine was something like that... I could understand it then.

There have been no discussions about issues. No "I wish you would...". No fights that went unresolved (hardly any fights at all in 10 years). We really were best friends. There _was_ a stress test (the company I worked for went out of business), but we were above water fine - I still had income. In my case just a sudden mood change in the last couple of months leading up to ILYBNILWY. No willingness to work on things in any way, shape, or form. That's why LL1's story resonates with me. Something is fishy with her (and LL1's WW's) actions.

...and your last sentence goes out the window in the case of an affair. That is how they 'suddenly' fall out of love and leave... usually to wake up and regret their actions some time later. It doesn't matter how much they loved you the day before or how well they were treated.


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## lostinlife#1 (Nov 25, 2013)

Honorbound and AVR1962,
I agree that something is "not right", or logical, we have been going to counciling maybe 2-3 joint sessions total, but they have always been to work through our divorced future, not to work on saving the relationship per her request/wishes. Both of us had also had a few individual sessions.

Our kids are so young 7 and 5. My biggest fear in all of this is that we will "mess them up" through this process. We both have good jobs, we both are good parents, we both actually parent well together, we would both agree to that and have said so indiviually and to counsilors. 

I agree with you that today, or say in the last 1 month, my wife is not in love with me. I have had the ILYBINOLWY speach. She feels (I think) that she has tried to communicate her needs. I feel that she has not done so, because if she had I would make any changes needed permanantly for her, our kids, and our life we have built together. Everything has already changed, I have been changed, regardless of the outcome. In spite of both of those positions/feelings to just walk out on 15yrs marriage and more with dating time and 2 little kids is insane. To give up 50% of the holidays, parenting decisions, vacation times, waking up and having the kids run into snuggle in the morning, that in and of itself should be enough to make dam sure this decisions is right, no? Rational or not we are inching our way closer to divorce. Soon I may need to have moderator move over to going through divorce forum. 

She has issued an ultimatum, sign agreement to mediate or she is going to get lawyer and file in 2 weeks. I cannot allow that for the kids sake.

Sad today, and low today.


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## Honorbound (Nov 19, 2013)

I am sorry, brother. Do what you have to do to take care of yourself and your kids. You know my thoughts on the matter - I don't think she is thinking correctly... but, who knows what is really going on? If she is dead set on this course, the only thing you can do is acquiesce with as much dignity and grace as possible. Try not to let her see you hurt. Be strong.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Honorbound said:


> I am sorry, brother. Do what you have to do to take care of yourself and your kids. You know my thoughts on the matter - I don't think she is thinking correctly... but, who knows what is really going on? If she is dead set on this course, the only thing you can do is acquiesce with as much dignity and grace as possible. Try not to let her see you hurt. Be strong.


This. Very well said.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lostinlife#1 (Nov 25, 2013)

Honorbound is your thread still active on hear? Would like to read.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Honorbound (Nov 19, 2013)

lostinlife#1 said:


> Honorbound is your thread still active on hear? Would like to read.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Honorbound's Journal in the Going through divorce or Separation forum


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## Zanne (Dec 7, 2012)

LIL#1, I'm sorry for your situation. From another wife's perspective, it may be that she cannot expect change from herself.

I don't fully understand it, but I am realizing this about my own situation. It's as if his actions are a reflection of me and I don't like what I see. I am unable to change the way I feel about him, or rather, I have no desire to do so. And maybe that is a circular argument, since one could say that I lack desire because I see no results from my husband. But there it is. I am walking away after nearly 25 years of marriage, with no guarantee that it will be any better for me living apart from him.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Festering resentment, sheer boredom, the death of attraction. Who knows what combination of these two have killed off any desire to try. The left behind spouse's lack of understanding just adds fuel to the urge to escape.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## lostinlife#1 (Nov 25, 2013)

Ugh different perspectives are good, I guess but man I don't know if I feel better or worse after reading them. Till death due us part, for better or for worse, or... After reading them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

lostinlife#1 said:


> Honorbound and AVR1962,
> I agree that something is "not right", or logical,
> She has issued an ultimatum, sign agreement to mediate or she is going to get lawyer and file in 2 weeks. I cannot allow that for the kids sake.
> 
> Sad today, and low today.


Lost I have a suspicion that something is very wrong.

She may be being pressured by outside influences (see OM ) to get you out of the picture.

Call her bluff on the ultimatum. I the mean time go file now and have it ready to beat her to the punch.

Use this stalling time to recon as much as you can.

How out of character has she been acting?

Something is definitely rotten in Denmark !!!!


Play to win my young brother


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

If you have been going to MC but the focus has been on post married life its time to find a different MC. If that is all your spouse wants to talk about the exercise is pointless. Its not marriage counseling.

She is not invested in the marriage any longer for whatever reason. You are playing her game, you are buying time hoping she comes to her senses. You must quit “humoring her” I understand you want to save the marriage, try everything you can but she doesn’t want to be part of that right now. She gave you an ultimate to sign a mediation paper or get a lawyer in two weeks? 

You wont do it because your telling yourself its wrong but I would hire an attorney tomorrow, work up a plan for the custody, who stays in house etc. Don’t inform her you are doing this. File for divorce, work up a plan and walk in and lay it all out for her. 

You need to show an offensive, get her off her game. If you wait for 2 weeks she will file anyway and I don’t think her opinion will change in the next two weeks. Even quick divorces move at a snails pace. You would try to give her anything she wants, well give her what she wants but start taking some control of the impact it will have on you. 

Don’t dwell on the future on splitting holidays etc. The more proactive you are right now the better. Be strong even though inside you will be crumbling. Nobody will tell you its fun. She wants this all done on her terms rendering you irrelevant. Make yourself relevant again. 

Both of you are still in the denial, what if stage. Talk is cheap, threats are fine and dandy but actions have consequenses. It makes it real. What happens in two weeks if she doesn’t hire a lawyer, then she says I don’t want to ruin the holidays but in a couple more weeks I will? Then will you bounce around hoping something else changes her mind? 

Men are built and “trained” to succeed, the old failure is not an option slogan. Quit looking at your situation as a failure but how can you make a success for yourself and kids out of this mess. She may come around when see truly realizes what she has to loose, she may not. But till her thought process starts changing you know where its headed.


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## lostinlife#1 (Nov 25, 2013)

The MC is onboard. They are also my individual MC, and will invoke critical thought where/when appropriate, but rest assured we have a strategy. They agree the words/actions/body language of my WAW do not match, and are all over the board. They agree her thought process is very irrational. While still unsure of the ultimate trigger, or master plan it is viewed as a "good sign" we are both continuing to move forward with C even in this capacity. But prepartions for divorce are also underway on my end.

I am listening to all. Attorney has been retained and we are working on a offensive strategy as well. I am not putting head in the sand and hoping this will go away, Agreed its got to be about me and the kids #1 now.


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## lostinlife#1 (Nov 25, 2013)

Moderator please move this thread to going through divorce forum. I have signed paperwork to mediate I don't agree but better than alternative. I will do this for my kids. I will do this not for her but because I believe this is best for them. Someday they will know the truth.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BashfulB (Jul 1, 2013)

Try that 180 thing. I've never done it but it seems to help other people cope and move on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Thats funny BB, you did it, you just didnt need to be told how to.

The OP should read your story, it will help him get the point!

Take care!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Ahhh...

The Walk-Away-Wife (and the men that push them away). Destroying marriages by the MILLIONS for hundreds of years, yet it barely gets a mention outside of a few random posts on forums like this.

We're doomed.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Yeah, it's invisible:
https://www.google.com/search?q=wal...7&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

turnera said:


> Yeah, it's invisible:
> https://www.google.com/search?q=wal...7&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8


So why do all of these people come onto this forum having NO IDEA its happening to them/their spouses? 1000 men TODAY around the world are going to be SHOCKED to find out their wife walked, possibly YEARS ago.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Because probably only 5% of all the people in the world - and that's being generous - even give a moment's thought to how to be a better person, is my marriage ok, should I change things. It's only when they see their wife's rear end on the way out their door, do they suddenly say wait, what happened? She never said a word!

Men are raised to have fun, in general. Go outside and play, work off that energy, come back at dusk. As they get older, they focus on video games, sports, hitting on girls...whatever makes them happy. They have been RAISED to have fun, enjoy life. To meet a hot 10 and screw her and have hot crazy sex the rest of their lives while working and then coming home and enjoying their hobbies, their tv, their video games. They are typically NOT raised to learn how to cook (or at least to learn to EXPECT to cook, unless it's a grill), and certainly not to clean house or do laundry or decorate a home.

Women are raised, in general, to look forward to marriage. To pretend raise a baby. To dress up and feel pretty. To learn to cook so they can be their family's cook some day. To like pretty things.

So when they marry, they both typically have NO IDEA that their notions of what they've been expecting is going to turn out to be anything BUT. The women will get frustrated that the men stop caring about pleasing her (if they have to go out of their way to do it); that they still expect her to work AND to come home and do all the stuff their SAHM did. Who cares if she's still working at 10pm? If she's the only one bathing and putting the kids to bed every night? 

He's content. He's working (source of pride), he's getting sex, he's getting to sit on his couch and watch tv or play video games, or do his hobbies, or hang out with his friends. If he DOES offer to watch the kids so the wife can have 4 hours to herself, he acts like he's doing her a favor. 

The woman's doing no better. Her image of marriage is shattered, as she has turned out to be just like her mother, except SHE has to work AND come home and work. While the husband sits and lets it happen. And instead of just saying 'I'm going out, see ya,' she pouts or stews or complains, and WAITS for him to change. Or gripes at him to change.

So she says something. Or she cries. Or she gets angry. And the man ignores her, pacifies her for the moment, or yells louder and shuts her up. She shuts up, because now her feelings are hurt, who is this man who promised to care about me but wants only his own comfort, and who has no problem yelling at me? HE is happy because she has shut up. This goes on, in some form or another, for years and years or even decades - depends on how strong the woman was to begin with - and the woman starts planning her escape. 

Typically, it will be when the kids move out to go to college, or else when the couple get financially settled enough that she can afford to move out. She stopped complaining years ago; once she decides she'll be happier alone, she stops. So of course he thinks she's happy and is finally no longer complaining, and is stunned when she walks away.

And you're right, 1000 men - if not more - are going to be 'blindsided' because they 'never knew' their wife was unhappy.


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## 49crash (Oct 20, 2013)

I knew my wife was unhappy for a couple of years. Nothing I could change about myself helped though. I did change. My wife stayed at home and I helped her some around the house. She had plenty of free time and we went out once or twice a week just as a couple. We vacationed as a couple. Still she had that mid life crisis and decided she wanted to make it on her own and there is nothing I can do to stop her. She fought it for a couple of years. I don't think all men are clueless. Guys have mid life crises as well. Seems more women are experiencing it now though. 



turnera said:


> Because probably only 5% of all the people in the world - and that's being generous - even give a moment's thought to how to be a better person, is my marriage ok, should I change things. It's only when they see their wife's rear end on the way out their door, do they suddenly say wait, what happened? She never said a word!
> 
> Men are raised to have fun, in general. Go outside and play, work off that energy, come back at dusk. As they get older, they focus on video games, sports, hitting on girls...whatever makes them happy. They have been RAISED to have fun, enjoy life. To meet a hot 10 and screw her and have hot crazy sex the rest of their lives while working and then coming home and enjoying their hobbies, their tv, their video games. They are typically NOT raised to learn how to cook (or at least to learn to EXPECT to cook, unless it's a grill), and certainly not to clean house or do laundry or decorate a home.
> 
> ...


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## Honorbound (Nov 19, 2013)

turnera said:


> Because probably only 5% of all the people in the world - and that's being generous - even give a moment's thought to how to be a better person, is my marriage ok, should I change things. It's only when they see their wife's rear end on the way out their door, do they suddenly say wait, what happened? She never said a word!
> 
> Men are raised to have fun, in general. Go outside and play, work off that energy, come back at dusk. As they get older, they focus on video games, sports, hitting on girls...whatever makes them happy. They have been RAISED to have fun, enjoy life. To meet a hot 10 and screw her and have hot crazy sex the rest of their lives while working and then coming home and enjoying their hobbies, their tv, their video games. They are typically NOT raised to learn how to cook (or at least to learn to EXPECT to cook, unless it's a grill), and certainly not to clean house or do laundry or decorate a home.
> 
> ...


Wow... someone has a one-sided perspective. While you might be right about some of the people here, your stereotyping isn't helpful. There are many threads on these forums where the men were the only ones putting in the effort in the marriage. If their wives did complain, it was only because they wanted both a man and a doormat.

In my own case, mine never said a word about any problems in 9 years of marriage - unless you count "Good night, I love you" as a cry for help. My first marriage we both worked, we both took care of the kids, we both took care of the house. "Fun" was what we made of it. I think that is actually the norm in this day and age. At least it is with the couples I know.

I don't know about this other race of men you are talking about (_"Men are raised to have fun, in general"_), but I was raised to work hard and take care of my responsibilities (wife, kids, chores) before even thinking of 'Fun'. I had to work after school from 3rd grade onward at my Father's job sites doing the crap no one else wanted to do.

It doesn't take long reading here to see there are basically two types of people - regardless of sex. 

Dysfunctional and non-dysfunctional. The two don't mix.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience, but everyone on these forums has as well. Threadjacking a _MAN's_ thread who is in pain and then proceeding to stereotype and bash all men is not helpful or even remotely accurate. It's offensive.


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## lostinlife#1 (Nov 25, 2013)

Turnera, 
I know you are hurting. We all are. I am sorry.

That person you describe. He is not me. I will possibly enjoy the last intact Christmas of my family's life this year and although pain will be here so to will joy for what I have had and will have in the future.

The walk away wife is not right or wrong, the left behind spouse is not right or wrong. I grieve tonight for my two wonderful kids who may never experience an intact family life. 

Know this please and with due respect my situation was fixable and both me and my wife have equal responsibility in that.

Love to all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JohnC_depressed (Dec 6, 2012)

lostinlife#1 said:


> Turnera,
> I know you are hurting. We all are. I am sorry.
> 
> That person you describe. He is not me. I will possibly enjoy the last intact Christmas of my family's life this year and although pain will be here so to will joy for what I have had and will have in the future.
> ...


So sorry man - keep your head up


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

lostinlife#1 said:


> Turnera,
> I know you are hurting. We all are. I am sorry.
> 
> That person you describe. He is not me. I will possibly enjoy the last intact Christmas of my family's life this year and although pain will be here so to will joy for what I have had and will have in the future.
> ...


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## lostinlife#1 (Nov 25, 2013)

Fordsvt, thanks not giving up but dang it this is hard. We had a great Christmas and Christmas Eve with the kids. Have been eating all the meals together as a family. And most stuff is pretty close to normal. Tonight she is going out with a girlfriend and I'll simply tell her to have a good time and focus on a good time with the kids... It's all I can do right now. I'm trying to keep a positive attitude as much as I can. She has been wearing a band although not our "real" one even though we never left the house yesterday. She also has been wearing a locket since christmas Santa got her...of the kids. So some good signs although maybe very small steps.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Honorbound said:


> Wow... someone has a one-sided perspective. While you might be right about some of the people here, your stereotyping isn't helpful. There are many threads on these forums where the men were the only ones putting in the effort in the marriage. If their wives did complain, it was only because they wanted both a man and a doormat.


Thing is, the men who DO come here are those who are more likely to be introspective to begin with, and thus more open-minded to what really goes on in a marriage. Do you think Archie Bunker would ever come to a forum? No, he'd blame all his problems on someone else.


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## Honorbound (Nov 19, 2013)

turnera said:


> Thing is, the men who DO come here are those who are more likely to be introspective to begin with, and thus more open-minded to what really goes on in a marriage. Do you think Archie Bunker would ever come to a forum? No, he'd blame all his problems on someone else.


True, but that is a trait common to both sexes. I'm sure we all know people whose only purpose in life is to elicit pity - they do that by blaming their problems on everything but themselves (the 'professional victim'). 

I think true introspection is a foreign concept to many, if not most, people. It is hard to look at yourself and not like what you see, so many don't bother to look.


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## Daisy2714 (Sep 22, 2013)

Lost...,

I have just read through your entire thread. I wish so much that I would have words of wisdom or even comfort. I can hear your heartbreak, sadness, and confusion. I'm so very sorry for your pain.

I have to agree that something is not quite right. There is some trigger that has caused her to check out and you need to just focus on what's best for you and the kids. Don't waste time wondering why or looking for blame. Try not to spend a lot of time worrying about "what if's". Most of the things we worry about never come to pass and the remainder are not within our control.

I read so many of these posts looking for help with my own situation. Sometimes I find one that just really touches me even though it's completely different than my own. Yours is such a story. You're being given good advice. Stay strong. Try not to let this make you bitter. Life is too short to spend it in anger.

My best to you,

Daisy


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## lostinlife#1 (Nov 25, 2013)

Daisy2714, 
Thanks for you thoughtful post. I am continuing to work on me and give all my love to the kids. I am now trying to shift focus from looking for an "answer or why" to dong things that will help me (exercise, reading, activities with the kids, fun stuff I enjoy ie snowmobiling). I have two wonderful children that have been given to me as a result of this relationship. Her crazy pace had now seemed to have slowed significantly. I will use this time to continue to work on me and detach from her.

Thank you again for your thoughts.

Yesterday's updates as have most of the past week been almost "normal". I came ill during the previous night. She checked on me several times throughout the night, brought water and when I was feeling better during the day we took the kids out and did a full day of fun stuff together as a "family." When we got back home we all ate dinner together. Watched a few tv shows together....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Do you believe in marriage as an institution now?

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

turnera said:


> Because probably only 5% of all the people in the world - and that's being generous - even give a moment's thought to how to be a better person, is my marriage ok, should I change things. It's only when they see their wife's rear end on the way out their door, do they suddenly say wait, what happened? She never said a word!
> 
> Men are raised to have fun, in general. Go outside and play, work off that energy, come back at dusk. As they get older, they focus on video games, sports, hitting on girls...whatever makes them happy. They have been RAISED to have fun, enjoy life. To meet a hot 10 and screw her and have hot crazy sex the rest of their lives while working and then coming home and enjoying their hobbies, their tv, their video games. They are typically NOT raised to learn how to cook (or at least to learn to EXPECT to cook, unless it's a grill), and certainly not to clean house or do laundry or decorate a home.
> 
> ...


This is an important part of the phenomenon. But it is not wholly cultural. Women are more nurturing/supportive by nature.

Also, women want different DNA down the stretch.

Monogamy is quite amazing when you think of it; dissatisfaction in marriage in partly due to lack of sexual freedom. Even a faithful spouse may wish very much that were doing it with someone else. Jimmy Carter told the truth and he was ridiculed for it.

During most of human civilization adultery was punished by death.

Walk away spouses are inevitable, given human nature. People marrying ought to warned that staying in love requires work.

Many men feel that marriage is surrender in return for which they can relax. Mistake.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## lostinlife#1 (Nov 25, 2013)

Long walk,
Not sure 100% who you wanted to ask that question to? To me I view marriage as a union of two people for the rest of thier lives, for better or worse, for sickness and in health, till death do us part. I am not trying to be simplistic in my answer but I was 24 when we married wife was 22. We're we to young to marry? I don't think so we dated for 4 years in college.

Relax in marriage no way. Not in this case. Honestly until I started reading and learning after wife dropped the bomb, it's more of a matter of communication, life changes with kids/time/priorities and love languages being different (in my opinion). All fixable, nothing that warrants dissolution of the marriage again in my opinion. No exaggeration the first time my wife said divorce was October of 2013, next sentance was no counciling i'm done. Now that is insane to me. Who says that? Throw away 19 years and a chance at an intact family????

Our culture is f'd up.... We watch shows on tv like modern family and the good wife... None of those shows idolize intact families why is that? Boring ? Don't make good tv? Again we all should live our lives as we see fit, problem is in this case and others in similar situations the WAW or WAS messes up lots of lives with a decision they make on their own...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

OP,

Make sure you keep looking for evidence to find out what's going on.

This situation almost screams cheating.

Maybe not, but be very vigilant.

If there is a POSOM, he and she are being VERY careful here, probably to ensure he is accepted by everybody after your D.

If your WAW is dating someone soon after you finally split, that will be POS.

It sounds like they have planned everything out very carefully to hide what's going on.

Keep digging for the truth. And be especially watchful for a Co-Worker.

The could be communicating face to face to make sure they leave no evidence that will reveal them.

I hope I'm wrong, but its the only explanation that doesn't make your W out to be bats**t crazy for ending such a long M with young children without ANY effort to try and fix it.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

lostinlife#1 said:


> Long walk,
> Not sure 100% who you wanted to ask that question to? To me I view marriage as a union of two people for the rest of thier lives, for better or worse, for sickness and in health, till death do us part. I am not trying to be simplistic in my answer but I was 24 when we married wife was 22. We're we to young to marry? I don't think so we dated for 4 years in college.
> 
> Relax in marriage no way. Not in this case. Honestly until I started reading and learning after wife dropped the bomb, it's more of a matter of communication, life changes with kids/time/priorities and love languages being different (in my opinion). All fixable, nothing that warrants dissolution of the marriage again in my opinion. No exaggeration the first time my wife said divorce was October of 2013, next sentance was no counciling i'm done. Now that is insane to me. Who says that? Throw away 19 years and a chance at an intact family????
> ...


I agree with you when it comes to modern culture. Women are very much the target group for celebrity love and break up stories while most men, especially younger guys ignore what Angelina and Brad are doing. Who cares about Britney Spears. 

But women are thinking about romance, wishing to be chased by the handsome, rich, athletic, charming guy, who by the way only wants her ovaries and womb.

Turnera is surely right about many WAWs. But you are probably not an example of a husband who was disrespectful and in attentive.

Marriage sets us up for a sucker punch. The for better or worse till death do we part is not part of any legally binding vow. Just the opposite, marriage ends the moment one party wants out.

Divorce is more normal than the marriage that goes until the end.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## lostinlife#1 (Nov 25, 2013)

Dyokemm, 
Still watching and being very careful NOT to rule that out so far nothing. Agree though could be very careful planning or just not there but not ruling it out...

Want to run this by all and get additional perspective taking down the Xmas tree yesterday I helped with the undecorating, removing lights, star, hauling outside, vacuuming up needles all of it. Except when it came time to splitting the ornaments which was some goal she had (mine, hers, the kids) I told her I was not interested in that. Is that an ok boundary for me to set?

Still working on the 180 and detaching and in some ways a more back to normal work week may help this week? Thanks to all working on staying strong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

All you can do is work on yourself. You can't control what she thinks says or acts. The 180 is about you and you only. Don't give up and stay strong. It worked for me. There wasn't another man involved with my wife in a PA. She had a small EA. It was a joke really and she was mixed up with her feelings and emotions. Once she saw how strong and Independant I became she changed and stepped into my space again. Be strong and don't let up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Was it ok to not participate in splitting up the ornaments? Of course - as long as it didn't matter to you if you got to keep certain ones. If it did, then you were choosing not to participate to prove a point, to manipulate, or to punish, etc. And that's not healthy.

Plus, you ended up not getting the ornaments you wanted.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I would have told her to shove those ornaments up her.....never mind.


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## lostinlife#1 (Nov 25, 2013)

Turnera,
Thanks for the response, I could care less about the Christmas oranaments. It wasn't about the physical thing in this case. It was about the concept of splitting up 19 years of relationship. That I am not ready to "quit" on. Now that being said don't get me wrong I will protect me financially and the kids and my emotional state of mind/being. But in this case I valued my emotion more than the physical ornaments that is why I set the boundary.

Bandit,
I do get that side of it to and somewhere down the road it may come to that, but not yet and not over ornaments. She said I could go through any of the boxes whenever I wanted and we left it at that....

Harder day emotionally today, not sure if it was back to work, holiday letdown, the winter weather, or just the ups and downs of this craziness. All over the board today.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

The WS all seem to do this, want to split things up slowly, a little here and there, the christmas ornaments was just that. They don’t really mean anything, aren’t a great value….no one really cares kind of stuff. You had mentioned that the week for Christmas seemed like normal, like a family again. This was her subtle way of telling you nothing changed in her head. 

Your emotions were all over today and its probably because you allowed yourself the luxury of hope and she zinged you with splitting Christmas ornaments and perhaps the situation was thrust back upon you when you didn’t expect it. 

I do believe especially when it comes to the decisions about mine/hers etc its best to handle it all at once. Its not fun and it hurts but its quicker and makes the other spouse have to think much harder about the situation. They slowly piece by piece pull there life away they make it easy for themselves to detach that way. 

You are going to need to work on the 180 stuff harder for your own sake. Returning to a normal work week will help that but you played happy family for the holiday. Your not ready to give up the marriage, you want to try, believe me I understand that very well but until her mindset changes it’s a pointless argument which you know. Its not a matter of being an ok boundary or not. You did what you felt was right for you at the time, you cant concern yourself with how she felt about it. You are stringing yourself along whether you realize it or not. 

It a very hard process and it will be for you, but you need to think only about what is best for you and your children. For almost 20 years every decision you have made has had your wife in that equation also. It will almost feel like you have to rewire your brain at times.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

She has checked out. You are alone in the idea of what you would share. The best response now is to check out with the 180. Give her what she asks for.

Only by letting her take a big bite of the sandwich she ordered will she discover whether it tastes good.


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## lostinlife#1 (Nov 25, 2013)

Honcho and LongWalk, 
Good hit over the head. Maybe I needed it. So fair points on all. I agree and will work harder on the 180. Hard part is some of that is "harder" to do still under the same roof and with current situation. 

How do you propose based on the current situation? (i.e. Still very early on in the "process"?)

Still living together and likely will with the house for some time, thoughts are to put on market March/April (worst time to sell now), who knows how long to sell? Financially we can't go get other houses/appts till this one is sold - big house. Kids still don't know and likely won't for some time. What I mean by that is the counselor has basically said tell the kids about a week before it DIRECTLY affect them. And have the details "agreed" too and known. (where they will live, what days with mom/dad, and so on) They are still way to young to process, hell I am having a hard time with it. 

We are almost done with the first round of financial "homework" for mediator, but first appt will be around Feb 1st. Mediator says 4-6 appts is normal, so again I am estimating a bit but say 1 appt per month with the homework in between - Feb 1st, Mar 1st, Apr 1st, May 1st best case done with paperwork. Then say it goes into court system - 2 months estimate for that to move? June/July/Aug best case pending how fast we bail on the house? While I don't want or expect to get rich off it, I don't want to dump it at a huge loss either?

So the balance I am trying to keep is:

1) Being able to look me in the mirror at the end of this process and say even though I didn't want the divorce, I NEVER supported it, and I did it the way I wanted for me. (and for the kids down the road).
2) We are so early on in the negotiation of EVERYTHING being an A$$hole now could hurt more than help.
3) I still think the mediation process is better than the lawyer process. I would like to support that as long as we can. I will know after the 1st appt whether that is a reasonable expectation or not. Lawyer route is always a option at any time. Not preferable to me as of today.

Thoughts?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

180 does NOT mean being an *******. It means living with a roommate, where you each have different interests and goals and you frankly couldn't care less what she does with her time as long as it doesn't impinge on your stuff. It means going out and enjoying your life. It means not supporting her when she has a headache or whatever - she's got friends and family for that; she's just a roommate.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

> 1) Being able to look me in the mirror at the end of this process and say even though I didn't want the divorce, I NEVER supported it, and I did it the way I wanted for me. (and for the kids down the road).
> 
> *She knows your position. No need to restate it to her.*
> 
> ...


Her absolute lack of interest in your marriage is sobering. I would want to know how anxious she is to date. If you are separated but living together, dating can be very uncomfortable.

If she cannot stand the idea of being married to you, you have to accept that and move on. From your description of her attitude there is little to hope for. Sorry so say it.

If there is some residue of love that can rekindle, you are only going to see that if you are not available as her man.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

If the two of you need to sell the house as part of the divorce, then put it on the market right away. Whether its a good time to sell or not is not a good argument. The economy could tank in 3 months. It could sell fast, it could languish on the market for months. If you are responsible for the house payment and your wife doesn’t contribute to the payment you are only going to be getting a return of 50 cents on the dollar since equity is getting split. It makes the most fiscal sense to put on the market right away if it needs to be sold. 

The mediation process doesn’t have to take 4 months at all. You have talked to lawyers so you have a pretty good idea how its going to get divided up. I wrote it before, starting hitting her with offers now, she wants out. As much as you don’t want to, you need to start making this process real to her. If the two of you have an agreement in place laid out for the first mediation, they will rubber stamp it. It will go to a judge who will just rubber stamp the agreement. Done.

She doesn’t want to deal with the big issues, she wants to hang in limbo land till the first mediation hearing. Use this to your advantage. Don’t worry about sounding like the a**hole and hurting her feelings. She wont like it, she wants this done her way. You must do what you think is best for you and the kids, NOT her. 

Your plan that you laid out, the mediation hearings one a month etc. is all reasonable and you are probably thinking it buys you time, you don’t have to force anything and sooner or later she will come to her senses. You think time is your ally in the process. It isn’t and the longer it goes on the more likely it will get ugly. The faster it gets done the better off both of you will be. 

The 180 stuff is much harder since you are both in the same house. A big part of what the 180 tries to accomplish is it breaks the routine and dependency of the other spouse. Your almost going to have to become to strangers living in a house. I am sure others have experience with this and are better able to help you with some of these aspects. I think it near impossible long term to live in the same house going thru divorce


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## lostinlife#1 (Nov 25, 2013)

Here's the thing I have been reading, thinking, rereading my entire post start to finish... My head is pulling in one direction-detach, 180, the rest of it.... My heart is pulling the other. They are beating the piss out of me!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Yes, you are getting pulled in opposite directions. But collective wisdom echoes Honcho's advice.

1) 180 is to save you, to help you recover. You must start sooner or later and sooner is much better than later in general;

2) she may change her mind. However, the chances of this happening are greater when she realizes she is going to live without out you;

3) separation may or may not help your marriage. There are differing opinions. Depends on the circumstances and dynamics.

Give defiant people what they demand, then you will see if that is what they want. The person who wants the relationship least has power. She has all the power. The moment you don't want the relationship either, you are equal.


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## lostinlife#1 (Nov 25, 2013)

Today some fun, played with the kids all morning, doing some snowmobile riding afternoon. No heavy thinking today, down time needed!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

lostinlife#1 said:


> My head is pulling in one direction-detach, 180, the rest of it.... My heart is pulling the other. They are beating the piss out of me!


So, when your heart tells you that you should be eating rocky road ice cream for every meal, are you gonna do it? Of course not, because your head knows that, sometimes, FOR YOUR OWN GOOD, you have to make decisions based on what's good for you, not what feels good.


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## lostinlife#1 (Nov 25, 2013)

Long walk, thanks for being direct, needed. Understood.

Honcho, she is at $150k/yr, I'm at $100k/yr, so I think house wise in for a penny in for a pound for both pretty equal there. If others have input on the 180 while in the same house shoot I'm all ears. I know you all may not believe this but I don't think either of us will let it get "ugly" to much at stake with the kids... Time will tell soon though.

Turnera, I prefer cookie dough and dropped about 35 lbs so far so I could use a little back but point taken!

Thanks to tam family. Stay tuned....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You cannot get her back by being a supplicant. Being timid around her will not improve your relationship. You asked a girl to dance and she turned you down. If you sit in a corner with a glum face for the rest of the evening where does that get you?

Tell yourself that life will go on without her if doesn't want you. Once you believe that she will hear it in your voice. She will have a new problem – plan B has checked out. She may reconsider.


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## lostinlife#1 (Nov 25, 2013)

I'm getting close to ready....If you love something, set it free. If it comes back, it's yours. If it does not come back, it was never meant to be.

Feeling like that part in Rocky where "getting strong now" is playing. Better place today, head, soul, and emotions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

lostinlife#1 said:


> I'm getting close to ready....If you love something, set it free. If it comes back, it's yours. If it does not come back, it was never meant to be.
> 
> Feeling like that part in Rocky where "getting strong now" is playing. Better place today, head, soul, and emotions.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Lost In L

I have been telling another poster Kolors 

Stay Positive

Play to win

Do that what can it hurt ?

55


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

I lost 30 pounds when it first happened and I didn’t need to loose any weight to start with. You probably wont gain any weight for a little while no matter how much you eat. 

I don’t think anyone wants the divorce to get ugly in the beginning really and if you can get it done fast and fair being realistic hopefully it goes that way. Its when it gets drawn out or someone starts to date is typically when it gets ugly. 

You seem to be in a better position financially since she earns more than you so you wont be chased for alimony etc. I my business world I deal with several bankers, lawyers and they almost all universally agree that if you need to sell the home its best just to get it on the market quickly since it is usually the biggest issue in a divorce next to custody. It also helps because it starts to get you focused on life afterwards, both of you have time to find a new residence etc. You know your situation much better and your local market.


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## lostinlife#1 (Nov 25, 2013)

Yes I get it common theme coming from all. Last night I took a step in the right direction. She was talking about wanting to get an apartment. Then start "practicing" the parenting plan, I listened and then when she was done I said for what purpose? I still want to work on the relationship. And when she said to practice again I told her no thanks not really interested in a practice but you can move out if you so choose. She was ready to say something but didn't. We talked about a few insignificant other things and she was crying when I went to be last night, she didn't say much today, we worked on our mediation "homework" some today, all fair and amicable so far....

The points being she had family and her friends to support her emotionally now, and that her opinion and my opinion can be different I need to do what I think is best for me and my children.

Strong still ready to move on and play to win.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lostinlife#1 (Nov 25, 2013)

My STBXW has sent in mediation paperwork, this is quickly becoming real now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

lostinlife#1 said:


> My STBXW has sent in mediation paperwork, this is quickly becoming real now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Give her what she wants

She will find it's not what she wanted after all

She will react in anger like the rest of them seeking greener
grass ........But by then it will be too late 

When you realize you have lost nothing

Stupid selfish people

55


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## indiecat (Sep 24, 2012)

Yes give her what she wants. She wants to see what life is like on the other side, by all means tell her to go ahead and do so. Pleading or begging will drive her away faster than any other tactic. (In your mind you can consider it a trial separation if it makes you feel better), but tell her that you won't stand in her way if she feels she must leave. As hard as it is, that is the only hope for the marriage. And your pride.


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## oncehisangel (Oct 13, 2012)

let her go lost... give her what she wants-

when she shows her true self, and she will- believe her (wise words from Mr C)

you're going to be ok-no matter how things turn and twist.

concentrate on you and your kids.


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## SadOldDad (Jan 9, 2014)

I have only recently joined this forum and I am shocked to realise how many guys are going through exactly (almost) what I am experiencing. Maybe in fairness to children, these forums should be compulsory reading for people who are about to be married. Its like a big open secret, you know people get divorced but never really know why. Its the similarity in the stories that's so bizarre. For my own sanity I have started writing a personal blog to keep a record of all I have been through in my efforts at reaching out, my thoughts, hurts and experiences. When my children have grown up and if appropriate I will let them read it so that they can can know that whatever they have been told, I did everything I could to prevent them going through this dire, destructive, unnecessary, end of a loving family. letterstoahollowheart.blogspot.co.uk


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## lostinlife#1 (Nov 25, 2013)

All, 
I am finally there... Last Thursday was my line in the sand. My custers last stand. In front of the counsilor she had the GALL to call me "selfish". Took zero accountability. As crappy as that was it was great for me to see her for what she is and move on with my own closure. Head in the game, clear minds full hearts to quote Friday night lights. I'm in protect me and the kids mode now, she is dead to my heart now.

Thanks to all I'll be back but I needed to get my head there on my own and I'm there now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## beyondrepair (Aug 17, 2013)

Yes, mine also told me that I had always been a "totally selfish person."

When I asked her if her actions of moving out and splitting the family apart couldn't be considered selfish, she replied that it was MY selfishness alone that destroyed the marriage, she was at no fault whatsoever.

Talk about patterns.


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## lostinlife#1 (Nov 25, 2013)

So nothing should surprise me anymore but ohhhhhh how it does... The latest is that even though we have no patenting plan STBXW is already wanting to plan "vacation" with her mom and sister in April.... Wow and I'm the selfish one!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

lostinlife#1 said:


> So nothing should surprise me anymore but ohhhhhh how it does... The latest is that even though we have no patenting plan STBXW is already wanting to plan "vacation" with her mom and sister in April.... Wow and I'm the selfish one!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You will be surprised how often you are surprised by your spouse's behavior during this. Once you detach completely, the surprise factor decreases.

As far as her vacation planning, this is common cart before the horse action. It is easier to plan a vacation than it is to buckle down and figure out basic shared parenting times. A wrench in her plans (if necessary) is not to agree to any vacation planning until you have a parenting plan in place.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You never discovered whether she was cheating, did you?


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## lostinlife#1 (Nov 25, 2013)

Longwalk,
Still nothing "solid" on the cheating one way or the other. As time has passed I have caught her in several "lies" about timing of additional savings/checking/PO box being pulled. Which I know about now due to pulling credit report and the accounts being part of joint assets to be discussed at upcoming mediation sessions. 

Regarding her upcoming vaction plans, I'd like to tell her what I think of that but instead likely will go with something along these lines unless the TAM family has additional insight?

"STBXW, I am not committing to any future dates, until we have the custody schedule a bit more solid with the mediator. We can discuss at mediation or counseling if you would prefer to do that."


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

lostinlife#1 said:


> "STBXW, I am not committing to any future dates, until we have a legal custody schedule. We can discuss at mediation or counseling if you would prefer to do that."


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## lostinlife#1 (Nov 25, 2013)

Done, now the million dollar question is what the response will be???

Great day today! Played with the kids, got some things done around house, work was productive, my friends rallied around me, I ate healthy. A treadmill run when the kids go to bed in a bit, then a shower... Today was a GOOD day!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LBHmidwest (Jan 3, 2014)

Hang in there. Going through this myself.

It's like who you knew is gone. The new, former wife, isn't in there anymore.

Doesn't make it better. I call mine wife 1.0 and 2.0 soon to be ex 3.0


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

All you can do is make yourself better for you and the kids.
You can't control what she say, does or thinks.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Have you read MMSLP yet?


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## lostinlife#1 (Nov 25, 2013)

Chaparral, no I don't think so, what is MMSLP?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LBHmidwest (Jan 3, 2014)

I'm in the same boat, hang in there. Difference for me was she could walk right into money, family taking her back, new house, etc. No "cold financial hurt" of a divorce - just the opposite. It's like I'm the bartender in ****tail and she went home to daddy after 20 years.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Married Man Sex Life Primer (it's not about sex). It teaches you how to be a man. How not to kiss up to your wife. How to lead your family and rise your ranking in your wife's eyes by being an alpha man and not a beta man.


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

turnera said:


> Married Man Sex Life Primer (it's not about sex). It teaches you how to be a man. How not to kiss up to your wife. How to lead your family and rise your ranking in your wife's eyes by being an alpha man and not a beta man.


That book changed my life, how I think and saved my marriage. Not kidding. I re-read parts of it quite a bit. All men need to read this book:smthumbup:,


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## Alpha (Feb 18, 2013)

Sounds like you have it under control Lost. Keep it up. Don't make the mistake like I did and let it ruin you for two years. Took me that long to actually really move on, and in the process I ruined my health and business.


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

The book "No More Mr.Nice Guy" was helpful too. 
Alpha, tell us more what happened? How was your health ruined and your work? I don't follow..


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Any updates?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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