# Is this it?



## CreekWalker (May 31, 2013)

I found this site tonight, while seeking ideas to improve the sex life in my marriage. 

I met my husband at 18. He was in his early 20's. He was an amazing lover. I admit...as the kids came one after another barely two years apart...I was often tired. And he worked night shift and thought nothing of waking me up at 3-4am to make love. This was not ideal for me. I did turn him down quite a bit, due to being unable to wake up.

But now our kids are 14, 16, 18. We have all this time to mess around and he's not interested. I'm 36, he is 42. He says he is happy with our level of intimacy. And has no problem with it. Recently I pushed him about it asking if there is anything I can do. He ultimately said "if you don't like it get it somewhere else." 

....This upset me. About 4 years ago....he left and had an affair. With a horrible woman who is older than me. His friends couldn't believe it. I have worked SO hard to move past it after he came home and asked me to. And now...I'm wondering if THIS IS IT. In the past 4-5 months...we've had sex maybe once every 4-6 weeks. The only time he has tried to initiate was on a day during my finals in college...when I hadn't slept in days and had a test to study for, which I had to go and take in a few hours. I turned him down. For the first time in 4 years.

...I'm pretty. People routinely think my kids are my siblings. Most people think I'm about 24. I'm open minded and I try SO hard to attract my husband. But he's not into me. He doesn't like to kiss. He doesn't keep his eyes open when we have sex.

I've read some posts here...and I'm really disheartened. I really miss my husband. He's right here and I miss him. I am actually jealous of the dog. He seems to pay her more attention than me. 

I waver between trying to make it work...trying to be attractive and...often he laughs at my attempts. And recently...I've tried just trying to NOT be attracted to him. To focus on the weight he has gained, etc. He keeps saying he's not what he was, he's not cute, when I say he is. He doesn't get that I just want to BE with him, I miss him and our wild times. I'm lonely and he's right here. 

He was the second person for me ever. And he really opened my mind to intimacy, to what sex could be with someone you love and trust and are attracted to. I wonder...if he's not interested because there's nothing left that's new. 

I wonder....can I just give up my sexuality...trade it in for hugs and kisses when he leaves for work and gets back. Since he came back...it's been all baby talk and smiles which is nice...but after the "make up sex" was over...so was the passion. Can I live without that? He was adamant that he is happy with the current situation. I am not.

I wonder why he came home to me if he doesn't want me. I'm sorry for this long post.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

It sounds like you haven't really recovered from his affair, for one thing. That sounds unresolved, for you at least.

As for him and his disinterest in intimacy and sex, are you sure he isn't up to something again? Is his heart still with the OW, or could they be in contact?


----------



## CreekWalker (May 31, 2013)

I am recovered from the affair in some ways. Not in others. I guess...it really opened my eyes to my husband in a lot of ways. It also opened my eyes to the fact that even with all of the sacrifices I made over the years...he could be so unhappy as to have an affair. 

I'm certainly a different person. 

He isn't in contact with the OW. I think it was an aberration for him to have an affair. As for sex; He says he's over 40 now and has less interest in sex and intimacy and that it's normal. He had his testosterone checked and it was fine. He doesn't have ED. I do think he uses porn. 

I'm kind of at the end of my rope here.


----------



## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

A lot of times men get turned off by long term rejection and old resentments just don't allow it to come back. Plus I guess it feels good to dish out some of that same medicine.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> A lot of times men get turned off by long term rejection and old resentments just don't allow it to come back. Plus I guess it feels good to dish out some of that same medicine.


Long term rejection can "steal" your sex life and a part of your identity. It doesn't feel good at all.

I'm not really a tit-for-tatter - but sometimes, you have to communicate in this manner so they understand how their actions feel to the reciever.


----------



## CreekWalker (May 31, 2013)

WOMe, You may be right. When I try to talk to him about this...he often refers back to years and years ago.

But...perspective you know? I never threw it in his face those nights he had off that I would get myself all ready...and he wouldn't come to bed. He'd come to bed at around 3-4 am and want it...just hours before I had to be up with the kids. 

Why is it...that he always wants it when I'm asleep, have morning breath, and I'm dead to the world? He complains that I wear pajamas. He has no idea how many nights I wake up cold and PUT them on...because he fell asleep downstairs. 

I guess....he may be willing to give up today...because I was a mom. Breastfeeding and up with kids and exhausted. He doesn't remember how I actually tried to set a "Saturday night is FOR SEX night" and he felt that was too organized. Lol, I would be all waxed and lotioned and ready and it still wasn't good enough.

I guess...if he wants to live in the past there is a lot of past to live in. But I might not stick around in this future...ultimately. I'm not sure long term. I'm really not right at this instant.


----------



## CreekWalker (May 31, 2013)

Lol I actually feel like I need to defend myself. I was willing to do it in the mini-van in a public...area. I've made him pull over to do it in the woods. I'll put porn on and molest him in the living room in the middle of the day. He works nights and I will make him breakfast and put him to bed with a BJ. Tuck him in and go about my day. I don't really have anything I'll turn down in the bedroom. Just please...please come to me when I have brushed my teeth and I'm not in hard core sleep mode an hour or two before the kid's school bus comes.


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I'm sorry you are going through this. When he was having the affair how was his attraction level to you? I think what bothers me most as an outsider is that he outright told you 'if you dont like it get it somewhere else.' 

It does sound like you go to a lot of effort to be attractive and available for him. That is very sad he is not taking advantage.


----------



## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

CreekWalker said:


> Lol I actually feel like I need to defend myself. I was willing to do it in the mini-van in a public...area. I've made him pull over to do it in the woods. I'll put porn on and molest him in the living room in the middle of the day. He works nights and I will make him breakfast and put him to bed with a BJ. Tuck him in and go about my day. I don't really have anything I'll turn down in the bedroom. Just please...please come to me when I have brushed my teeth and I'm not in hard core sleep mode an hour or two before the kid's school bus comes.


Indeed that sounds like a reasonable request, especially considering the logistics. 

Seems like the two of you have different biorhythms.


----------



## CreekWalker (May 31, 2013)

His attraction had slowed down. But suddenly, he started dressing better, had our kid shave his back, and had an affair. It was borderline ridiculous. 

We had some good hysterical bonding after he came home. But now...he's gained all the weight he lost when he went "affairing" back and more. I am still attracted to him. But when I try to kiss him, he acts like he can't wait for it to be over. 

....yes when he said to get it somewhere else I almost passed out. I mentioned something about it recently and he apparently doesn't remember saying it. But HE SAID IT.


----------



## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

You should be in MC. You really sound like someone who is trying. My best guess is there is a lot of resentment your husband has for you. If anyone should be resentful its you. 
Find a therapist your both comfortable with and put it all out on the table. He has to forgive you for the past and you will have to do the same. Its a shame cause it reads like you really love this man and your willing to rock his world.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CreekWalker (May 31, 2013)

We can't afford MC or counseling. I think you are right. He has a lot of resentment. 

I've tried to let him have pretty much free reign our whole life. And he took it. I kept back, let him go to games and events and do what he wanted. I knew the kids and I were a drag. I knew pushing him to grow up and do the right things in life, like buy a house, was a drag. 

But I'm 4 years away from the youngest graduating and I'll still be young. I love him, but I don't want to be a drag... And I'm well aware that there are women in the world that he doesn't find to be a drag...

I'm worried that love isn't enough, and lust and passion die sometimes. So...for now I'm second to the dog.


----------



## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

You deserve to feel loved and cherished and desired. 

You cannot fix this alone.

He needs to be putting effort into fixing this, or else you are just missing out on life and love elsewhere, just so he can not be inconvenienced by your rather understandable needs and having to own up to the damage he caused with the affair.

My wife recently said something like "I wish you would get it somewhere else." Ha! if only it was that simple (let alone a true wish of hers). Trouble is, I'm not just looking to get "it", I crave the whole thing (a fulfilling loving relationship). It's just getting harder to want it with her.


----------



## Convection (Apr 20, 2013)

CreekWalker said:


> I guess...if he wants to live in the past there is a lot of past to live in. But I might not stick around in this future...ultimately. I'm not sure long term. I'm really not right at this instant.


Have you said this to him? Not vaguely hinted but said directly that you are unwilling to accept this level of effort and intimacy long-term and that since he had the need to say "get it elsewhere," you are placing on the table the option to leave him and do just that? You said he wants to live in the past; I say he should be grateful to have a present to work in, after his cheating.

You don't have to nag him; just lay it out there. Then pull back. He'll either act or he won't ... and you will have your answer.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

"....yes when he said to get it somewhere else I almost passed out. I mentioned something about it recently and he apparently doesn't remember saying it. But HE SAID IT."


This is what makes me worry that he might be back in contact with OW or that he might be in a new affair. They can't keep track of the things they say when they are in one, and they are more likely to just get mean and nasty.


----------



## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

CreekWalker said:


> He isn't in contact with the OW. I think it was an aberration for him to have an affair.


How do you know? What steps have you taken to confirm?

Also, what did you two do after you discovered the affair?

Even if he is not having the affair, consider that it is linked. It may be resentment (he deserved the affair because of how you treated him), it may be depression (he is awful for having cheated, so he does not deserve it), who knows. But I don't think you can afford not to get counseling.


----------



## CreekWalker (May 31, 2013)

....The affair was almost 4 years ago. He lied and said his behavior was not about someone else. But essentially it was. He left before I knew that was it, and I prepared to live without him with our kids (who he wasn't interested in either.) Nobody deserves an affair. If at any point he had been sane in the process of his affair...I would not have taken him back. What did I do? Well...I got myself together. I got hit on by his friends, which is how I actually learned he was having the affair. By then...when I learned he was already living with her. 

Maybe he is resentful. I don't really know what else I could have done for him over the years. I didn't treat him poorly. He is the king of the castle and his word is the last word. I even worked and gave him my paycheck with no questions. 

I put up with a lot from him and I'm pretty sure nobody else would. But....ultimately it's the current sex life I'm going crazy over.

I don't think he's having another affair. I think he has convinced himself he's old and unsexy. Which is ridiculous.


----------



## CreekWalker (May 31, 2013)

PieceOfSky said:


> You deserve to feel loved and cherished and desired.
> Trouble is, I'm not just looking to get "it", I crave the whole thing (a fulfilling loving relationship). It's just getting harder to want it with her.


This is it exactly. You get it. I want intimacy and the whole thing. I have been pretty clear with him that if he feels he needs sex outside of "us" like before...he needs to tell me up front so I can decide what to do with my life. Because I can't go through that mess again. I didn't end up with any STD's but that was a scary thing, living after being tested, worrying. His "affair partner" well he thought she was a "good girl" but...she's more of a good time girl. 

I think if he wanted another affair...he'd probably tell me. The skank he had...she ended up with one of his friends for a bit, then moved on to another one whom I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't go back with her. And if he did have another affair, it would be a massive deal breaker for me. 

We went to ONE counseling appt. It was ridiculous. I'm more of a Beck school of belief person. And I think he does need IC but he won't go and honestly we can't afford it. I'm in college right now. 

Has anyone here fixed the sex issues in their marriage? Just wondering if there are any tips, tricks, or books people liked?


----------



## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Sorry for what your going through. I too went through the same things with my wife. I have 3 kids and a busy life and wife. 

I think your husband does have resentment and guilt. What happened in the MC that was so bad? Will he talk to you about sex without getting upset?


----------



## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

Might there be some type of pursuit game going on? If he can cheat on you and you are still there its fair for him to assume you will always be there. Which of your expectations of him are deal breakers?

Humans take the path of least resistance and if something is uncomfortable we will avoid it if we can. IF WE CAN'T...now you will see our best effort. It sounds to me like you could use some "tension" in your relationship. My wife would have never made the effort she is if I did not have one foot out the door.

BTW, there are plenty of forty somethings with drives that are still rockin"...that is likely BS.


----------



## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

If you have guys interested in you now you need to cut off that communication with them to work on your marriage. Do not put your attractive self on the market even to chat. Things can go downhill into an EA very fast.


----------



## CreekWalker (May 31, 2013)

On the MC. We went together to see his IC. It was horrible. It was a "drag up everything from the past" Festival. Husband was annoyed. He did what he does and explained why I make no sense, or I'm stupid. The MC said that he had to realize my feelings are valid, and that I don't always agree with his POV, and that I am entitled to my feelings. We were absolutely a mess when we ran out of time. He never went back to IC, or MC. He won't go to retrauville. nothing. 

I've tended to bear the brunt of managing a lot of struggle in our world. I'm a strong person, and fairly innately optimistic. I have a deep understanding that he feels nothing we have is good enough. That he is dissapointed in our life though he's not very willing to put in any elbow grease, or take pride in what we DO have. I'm working hard to get a degree to increase our income in the future. (4 classes for UG and then a masters...or PHD depending). I think he knows down deep that he should get up and help more...but it's easier to blame me and make me nuts so he can point out that I'm nuts. If that makes sense.


I think he knows deep down that I'll always be here. In big part because I don't want to lose my kids on weekends. I want to see them every day. I'd do whatever it takes to make that happen. But...the youngest is starting high school next year. I'll be 40 when she graduates. I think he thinks I'll run at that point. which if he would work on things with me I wouldn't. 

As for having an EA, no. Frankly...I'm not sure I'd ever be on the market to take care of a man again. In regards to stocking groceries, making his lunch, taking care of the house/laundry/yard and STILL working for a paycheck. I've pretty much spent my entire adult life doing that and now can't get laid, or made out with by the one guy who seriously I want more than anything. So.....


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

CreekWalker said:


> On the MC. We went together to see his IC. It was horrible. It was a "drag up everything from the past" Festival. Husband was annoyed. He did what he does and explained why I make no sense, or I'm stupid. The MC said that he had to realize my feelings are valid, and that I don't always agree with his POV, and that I am entitled to my feelings. We were absolutely a mess when we ran out of time. He never went back to IC, or MC. He won't go to retrauville. nothing.
> 
> I've tended to bear the brunt of managing a lot of struggle in our world. I'm a strong person, and fairly innately optimistic. I have a deep understanding that he feels nothing we have is good enough. That he is dissapointed in our life though he's not very willing to put in any elbow grease, or take pride in what we DO have. I'm working hard to get a degree to increase our income in the future. (4 classes for UG and then a masters...or PHD depending). I think he knows down deep that he should get up and help more...but it's easier to blame me and make me nuts so he can point out that I'm nuts. If that makes sense.
> 
> ...


So...

Man or woman, after we've addressed the issue and tried to get help, we decide whether this is the way we want to live the rest of our life...


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

The way you describe your husband doesn't seem like something you can fix, a book can fix, nor even marriage counseling can fix. He sounds like a narcissist. It's all about him. Your feelings don't count. What you want isn't a consideration. He may not be a true sociopathic narcissist, but he has enough of that tendency that it really doesn't matter what you say or how unhappy you are.

I would suggest you concentrate on yourself, fully and completely and forget about trying to figure him out and make your marriage better. Because there is nothing you can do to make him have empathy toward your feelings. he talks of past resentments as if he is completely innocent and you know he is not. He won't let to of his resentments because if he did, then he would have to take some responsibility for fixing the sad state of your marriage.

I do wonder if he defines his current life as one of happiness and contentment? If so, I think he is lying because a person can't be angry and be happy. If he doesn't, then what is it he does want?


----------



## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Do you know what an EA is? I see your other post says there are guys interested in you. How do you know this?


----------



## CreekWalker (May 31, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> I would suggest you concentrate on yourself, fully and completely and forget about trying to figure him out and make your marriage better. Because there is nothing you can do to make him have empathy toward your feelings. he talks of past resentments as if he is completely innocent and you know he is not. He won't let to of his resentments because if he did, then he would have to take some responsibility for fixing the sad state of your marriage.
> 
> I do wonder if he defines his current life as one of happiness and contentment? If so, I think he is lying because a person can't be angry and be happy. If he doesn't, then what is it he does want?


Being in college has really been amazing for concentrating on myself. I know I've let a lot of other things go to crap due to trying to keep up. But...because of the things he lets go (like the washer breaking two years ago and now I have to deal with the laundry mat for 5 adult sized people)...it's kind of tit for tat in my mind. He says he's happy...but I don't think he is. What is soooo pathetic is that I really want to complete my degree to increase our income so I CAN give him the things he seems to think are important. I am co-dependent a bit...but I'm SUCH a low maintenance girl. I'm happy walking the creek :smthumbup: I like swimming in the lake. I don't mind living without, except for hot water and flushing toilets  which has actually been a challenge more than once. 

Since the affair I do for me a lot more. I go for walks by myself and I won't let people get too much in the way of my college or grades. I attend a brick and mortar private college that is respected. I'm an honor's student. He is still in charge really...but I feel like once I have my own income again I'll plan more things both with him, with the kids, and by myself. 

At the same time that I MUST insist on certain things to succeed at school (like internet and a computer and a desk), I'm SUPER low maintenance. I just want to see him content because...I love the guy, and I think it's that kind of love you get when you settle down really young. It's different than older, more sensible love. I know I wouldn't put up with this ever again with anyone else. 

Sometimes I think that with all I've put in over the years...he doesn't really see me. He sees what he thinks he sees, a projection/deflection of what I am and who I am. He has explained me to himself. And there is no insinuating ME into his construct of me. 

I've forgiven the affair...but I don't forget. I wish I could. I have had support on another site when it came to the affair. But I came to this site to specifically address what to do about the sex problem. Because...the sex issue at least on my part isn't due to the affair, I was looking for more specific ideas and books on that subject. The sex life is....pretty awful. I feel like the passion is dead on his part. I try and try and try...and he insists this is normal. But...I don't think it is. 

So..I understand EA PA....handling fog/triggers/mind movies...all of that stuff. Ridiculously so. As for being an attractive woman who looks 10+ years younger than she is...in my current job working with the public...being hit on is pretty much par for the course. I got invited to join some swingers last weekend. Pretty funny, had a good laugh with my boss after. I'm not a ****, or a flirt, it just is what it is. It's been this way in my world since I was 13. I found out about my husband's affair because one of his friends saw them out at an event and called me to see if I'd get together for coffee. I routinely unfriend people on FB if they get suggestive. Which they do..even though my profile pic is of me and my H. 

What I don't understand...is what the hell is wrong. I feel like a sexual leper to this man I love.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

CreekWalker said:


> Being in college has really been amazing for concentrating on myself. I know I've let a lot of other things go to crap due to trying to keep up. But...because of the things he lets go (like the washer breaking two years ago and now I have to deal with the laundry mat for 5 adult sized people)...it's kind of tit for tat in my mind. He says he's happy...but I don't think he is. What is soooo pathetic is that I really want to complete my degree to increase our income so I CAN give him the things he seems to think are important. I am co-dependent a bit...but I'm SUCH a low maintenance girl. I'm happy walking the creek :smthumbup: I like swimming in the lake. I don't mind living without, except for hot water and flushing toilets  which has actually been a challenge more than once.
> 
> Since the affair I do for me a lot more. I go for walks by myself and I won't let people get too much in the way of my college or grades. I attend a brick and mortar private college that is respected. I'm an honor's student. He is still in charge really...but I feel like once I have my own income again I'll plan more things both with him, with the kids, and by myself.
> 
> ...


Did you participate or view the swinger thing?

Why do you talk about your boss in a much more respectable light than your man?


----------



## IsGirl3 (Nov 13, 2012)

it sounds like you're in this for the long haul, or at least the next 4 years. have you been as upfront as you are here, or he cuts you off before you can speak your mind fully? do you think he would care if he lost you? you would care if you lost him, which is why you're trying so hard, but would he care? 

Maybe you should give yourself a time frame in your mind - 4 years - and if things don't improve by then, you really need to move on, as much as it will rip your heart out.

Somehow you need to let him know that he's losing you. And if it's not directly speaking of divorce, it's should be in the reference of if things do not improve, then the marriage is in danger.

Words like "go get it somewhere else" are fighting words. They are uncaring words. they are divorce words. if this is how he feels, and if you can't get him to see the light and try again to make it work with you, then you know what you need to do, but just need to psyche yourself up mentally to do it. good luck.


----------



## CreekWalker (May 31, 2013)

Trey, Ummm of course I didn't participate or watch. And my boss is a woman who I see as an aunt type figure. I can't help it that I get hit on. I have been told I'm "the girl next door" type. I don't dress provocatively. I'm not sure where you think I'm disrespecting my husband. I quite literally would do anything for the man.

IsGirl3...I think you are very right, I'm in it for the long haul. He says he loves me and essentially that's why he is still here. But I'm not sure why he came home. I didn't change. Actually I became more independent and self-actualized. I have tried being very straight forward about my needs and what I need help with. I don't ask for a lot..but yeah he makes a point of not doing things. I don't know why. He is VERY passive aggressive. 

I'm not sure he'll see the light when it comes to the sex once a month or less thing. I'm not sure what to do about it. He said he was going to talk to his doctor but chickened out. I feel like a part of me is dying. I feel like the "something special" that used to be there between us is gone. I want it back.


----------



## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

CreekWalker said:


> On the MC. We went together to see his IC. It was horrible. It was a "drag up everything from the past" Festival. Husband was annoyed.
> .
> .
> .
> We were absolutely a mess when we ran out of time. He never went back to IC, or MC. He won't go to retrauville. nothing.


Something similar happened to us. I've come to believe a "guest appearance" at the other's IC session is not a good way to go. I'm thinking (guessing) starting with an MC, together, would be better because the MC has a professional obligation to you both, and you would both be dipping your toes in at the same time.



> I've tended to bear the brunt of managing a lot of struggle in our world. I'm a strong person, and fairly innately optimistic. I have a deep understanding that he feels nothing we have is good enough. That he is dissapointed in our life though he's not very willing to put in any elbow grease, or take pride in what we DO have.


For as long as I've known my wife (20+ years), I have seen her struggle with unhappiness. I don't think I have ever seen her relaxed and content and happy about any aspect of her life. I don't know why exactly. But, by now, I think her continual unhappiness is not really solvable; she has demonstrated nothing but the most token-efforts to ever "fix" whatever it is, and then only when the pain has been so unbearrable. And, for whatever reasons, I'm the one that gets blamed for it, overtly and covertly ("See, this is why we can't have nice things....", "I don't want to have sex with you because I've been telling you what's been wrong for years and nobody ever does anything about it...", "When we went out that one time after the kids were born, you didn't connect with me at dinner....", "You're just not interested in doing fun exciting things..." .....essentially, "You disappoint me, no wonder I don't want to be sexual with you, no wonder I don't want to cuddle or kiss you, it's all your fault and you will never change...." --- YET, she really just blames and takes no action to heal anything.)







CreekWalker said:


> Being in college has really been amazing for concentrating on myself.


Good!



> I just want to see him content because...I love the guy, and I think it's that kind of love you get when you settle down really young. It's different than older, more sensible love. I know I wouldn't put up with this ever again with anyone else.


I fear you are getting far less love in return. Did you have other loves in your life? Do you know what it feels like to be loved by someone -- who, for instance, loves you in the same way as you have been loving him? That is, someone who treasures YOU?



> Sometimes I think that with all I've put in over the years...he doesn't really see me. He sees what he thinks he sees, a projection/deflection of what I am and who I am. He has explained me to himself. And there is no insinuating ME into his construct of me.


This is the essence of my existence. Whenever we have heart to heart talks, it is painful to hear all the projected crap I have been unknowingly clothed in all these years. I have to stop her multiple times and declare "No, that's no how I think at all.", or "That's how your Dad is, but sure as h3ll is not me.". I don't know, it's kind of hard to explain, but, it just feels completely unfair that she is having a relationship in her head with some version of me that doesn't exist -- and, often is the complete opposite of who I am and strive to be. It's frustrating, and, I am starting to see, completely eliminates any chance of a real healthy loving relationship with her that I have longed for, well, forever.



> I've forgiven the affair...but I don't forget. I wish I could. I have had support on another site when it came to the affair. But I came to this site to specifically address what to do about the sex problem. Because...the sex issue at least on my part isn't due to the affair, I was looking for more specific ideas and books on that subject. The sex life is....pretty awful. I feel like the passion is dead on his part. I try and try and try...and he insists this is normal. But...I don't think it is.


I spent a lot of times looking for biological causes -- eg. hormones, post-partum depression, physical trauma from childbirth, sexual mechanics, mental distractions. I spent a lot of time looking for mechanical/chemical/man-made solutions (toys, gels, erotica, stress-reduction, etc.). I read books, surfed the web. Things did improve, perhaps for a long while. But we are at the point where it's clear the problem overwhelming us is more that our relationship is all but dead.

One of the book titles I vaguely recall: The Sex-Starved Marriage. 



> What I don't understand...is what the hell is wrong. I feel like a sexual leper to this man I love.





CreekWalker said:


> Maybe he is resentful. I don't really know what else I could have done for him over the years. I didn't treat him poorly. He is the king of the castle and his word is the last word. I even worked and gave him my paycheck with no questions.


I know the feeling.



> I put up with a lot from him and I'm pretty sure nobody else would.


That part -- you haven't told us why. For me, if it were not for my kids, I would have left by now. It is very difficult right now to feel any sort of positive feeling towards my wife, but I'm trying to hold on -- just to make sure I have exhausted every possibility we have for reconnecting.

I think if I had other romantic/sexual relationships (beside the puppy-love high-school sweet-heart thing I had senior year), then I might have had less of a tendency to settle for less than a truly fulfulling love. I just didn't know what I was missing, until it was too late.




> Has anyone here fixed the sex issues in their marriage? Just wondering if there are any tips, tricks, or books people liked?


For us, we hope the sex issues can be solved once we get rid of the anger and resentment issues. (The previous improvements didn't last, and were just focused on the "sex".)

We are going to start Emotionally Focused Therapy with a MC soon. EFT is explained in Susan Johnson's book Hold Me Tight (Sue Johnson, author of Hold Me Tight: Seven Conversations for a Lifetime of Love). There is a video for couples ($69 or so). Does your brick-and-mortar school have a good library? 

I'm hopeful EFT has something to offer us, in our predicament, and with my wife and I's personalities.

Btw, we recently happened to watch "This Emotional Life", episode 1, a PBS documentary. There were two couples towards the end, I think, that they profiled. I think it was helpful for us (my wife especially) to see how they were or were no coping, and sort of made her more open to us getting MC. Here's some details:
Episode 1: Family, Friends & Lovers | This Emotional Life

You could get a free trial subscription from netflix.com, and watch it there, and then cancel your subscription.

Also, have you investigated what sort of counseling services might be available through your college?


----------



## CEL (May 7, 2013)

You keep looking for things wrong with you......here's the point from you posting it is not you that is the problem. Now how to get him to change to be there for you? That is that is the tough question first you have to look yourself in the mirror and tell yourself that you are NOT the problem. You are sexy, You are available. You are open to sex. Really that should be all he needs however that is just not the case. YOU are not to blame for HIS low sex drive, surprise HE is at fault for not even attempting to address it.

You have some options some are okay options that might work, some are options you wont do because you love him but I am going to lay out what worked and did not work for me. My girl for along period was not into sex.

1: Have a frank talk that you NEED more sex. "almost never works"

2: Get mad at him because he does not give you sex. "almost never works"

3: Read 5 Languages of Love and His Needs Her Needs "if you were a man I would recommend as usually the problem with a women is lack of feeling loved that causes a dive in sex"

4: Read the Pleasure Mechanics books on sensual massage "works great for me but again you are a women so not sure what you mileage will be it is a good way to get him naked and semi in the mood"

5: Eat healthier so that the eats better maybe he does not feel sexy "might work but again low chance"

6: Let him know this is a deal breaker and he needs to work on it or you are leaving "you won't do this but it does work about 50 if done right with the correct books and a we both made mistakes attitude basically this is if you need to revamp the whole marriage."

7: MC but you tried this and it ended horribly from your account the reasons it ended horribly is he did not factor in your feelings and the MC saw this and attacked it, right now that is exactly what is happening by the way. So I think the MC was correct. But again he won't go back and work on it so this is a non starter.

8: Live with it. This is what you are doing many spouses on here deal with little like once a year sex to no sex. They tough it out because the love the person I don't get it so I don't respond to those threads I think they are cheating themselves out of being happy, I would leave if I was with a women who felt that me being sexual satisfied was such a low priority.

I have tried some of these namely 1,2,3,4,5 and 6 the ones that worked for me where 3 and 4. She was not feeling loved and so I was not getting sex I had to grow up. But I don't think that is you issue.


----------



## Whiner (May 22, 2013)

The pattern over the years is so much like what I have gone through with my husband. Not taking the opportunity for sex when it is given, asking for it at clearly bad times and then being hurt by refusal. I tried the Saturday night idea with the same result. If I could have all the nights I cried myself to sleep waiting for him--and, yes, he knew I was waiting--if I could have all that time back, I could have a second job. Then I could afford to choose to stay or go. There must be a name for their type of behavior.

But this isn't about me. I think you should seek mc. A lot of churches offer it for free and it isn't necessarily religious in focus. Ask around for a free or low cost place.


----------



## CreekWalker (May 31, 2013)

CEL...I've tried EVERY one of those. What really amazed me is that he came up as a physical on the love languages. I mean...he likes is back scratched, that sort of thing, but sexually he's not a physical. 

I actually am a great masseuse. His best friend has neck and shoulder problems and has come over for massage for 15 years or so. But my husband doesn't like deep tissue massage. Massage oil. Or anything more than kind of a gentle touch. And he says "I don't get sore so I don't need massage." I've massaged every inch of him and he doesn't seem to enjoy it. 

Whiner, I'm glad I'm not the only one. I mean...it seemed like he ONLY asked for sex or got flirty when I was needing to nurse a baby and the school bus was 10 minutes away. And now...years later he wants to punish me for "turning him down" all the time. I feel like he should give me an award for never asking him to help. Hmmm...maybe I should have! "honey...get the kids lunches made, their socks and shoes on, the backpacks are by the door, put Sweeties hair in piggy tails, and feed this baby. I'll be waiting upstairs buck naked and ready to go wild! God. *******. So...to punish me for all of that I did the same as you, waited in bed with flavored oil on my nipples for no damned reason. Waited in bed freshly shaved, hair pulled aside for better BJ action, FOR NO REASON.

I guess he sure showed me. You're right, I should have gotten a second job too.

He upset me yesterday over something he did just to show me that my feelings don't matter. Congrats to him. He's 42, overweight, has high cholesterol and blood pressure, gives me a hard time about taking his meds...and I got mistaken for a high school student when trying to pay for my son's driver's ed class last week. He has a wife who wants to set up a tent in the woods and get it on like we did years ago, who thinks he's the cutest man alive...and he broke her heart again yesterday. 

....So....I'm going to focus on taking care of myself. I'm going to lose the extra 20-30 lbs I've put on with him, and maybe buy a kayak, and the bike I've been wanting for years. If I'm going to give up and let my hyman grow back in, I may as well enjoy myself.


----------



## ginger-snap (Apr 10, 2013)

I wonder, could you manufacture some sort of fake deadline to see if he'll spring on the opportunity then? I'm not really sure how to do this, but it seems he's only interested when time is of the essence. I wonder if it feels illicit if there's a deadline.

I really think it's related to health too. Our husbands sound similar in age/health issues, CreekWalker. No matter how hard I try, getting him to eat healthier is darn near impossible. I don't buy junk food, so he'll stop and get it himself. Getting him to join me in physical activity is also like pulling teeth. He'd just prefer to sit on the couch or in front of the computer even though he does that at work all day. It's incredibly frustrating.


----------



## CreekWalker (May 31, 2013)

Ginger-Snap, I never thought of that...creating urgency. Hmmmm

Yes...I make great dinners, then he stops at McDonalds on the way to work and on the way home. He leaves the wraps in the car so I see them. He LITERALLY sits on the sofa or he's at work. That is all. 

I try to get him to go on walks. As if. VERY RARE. And in the summer I swim in the lake every day...but on the rare occasion he comes along he brings his dog. She barks on the dock and he can't leave her alone to get in a good swim.

I really want a partner who is more physically active. I don't want to be one of those women who gets a degree and leaves...but honestly I'm feeling that he'd be happier without me nagging him. And I'd be happier with sex more than once every 4-8 wks. With kisses and suggestive stuff, and with a healthier lifestyle.

I keep telling myself that all of this struggle I've lived in this marriage, will make me a more empathetic counselor one day.


----------



## ginger-snap (Apr 10, 2013)

> creating urgency


Yes! I could not think of the words! That's exactly what I was trying to say.

I feel your pain completely on the healthier lifestyle. I feel like we lead a very very boring life because he just doesn't want to move. I try to do things myself, but I wanted a husband who wanted to experience things with me. I don't need to be married to travel, hike, bike, swim, camp, etc. alone or with girlfriends.


----------



## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

CreekWalker, 

Maybe i am wrong (i hope i am), but you seem very hurt, angry, and resentful -- with good reason. And though our particulars are different, I am full of those three feelings (as is my wife). At the moment, I see my wife doesn't get how I feel and why, may not even have it in her capacity to get it, has seemed interested only in me magically making it better for her (if even that), is alienated from her feelings and motivations, and I'm continuously suffering from it. 

I'm trying to work on myself, and trying to convey her I am going to have a happy loving future with or without her. This is it. I will accept this no more.

I am now aware that any hope I invest in it being with her, just later turns out to be a vulnerability I exposed for her behavior to crush. Losing energy and interest in this process. 

(But, she is starting to respond to changes I make, and now claims interest in IC and MC -- so, I guess I will make myself vulnerable one more "time".)



CreekWalker said:


> And now...years later he wants to punish me for "turning him down" all the time. I feel like he should give me an award for never asking him to help.
> .
> .
> .
> ...


I have had a bad habit to sense destructive motives in my wife's many-faceted rejections and subtle and not so subtle put downs and, perhaps even emasculation attempts -- and then not call her on it, or put it gently on the table and insist we discuss it. There is a sense of urgency now, such that it is much easier to talk openly about whatever, within the same day it occurs (one foot of mine is seriously out the door). This directness and persistence of talking things through is helping, I think.

To think you waited, with the oil, and purposeful and loving grooming -- well, that just makes me sad and angry at the same time. And I can relate, as I am sure many can here. Just wanted to say I'm sorry you've had to deal with that. If he doesn't know he failed to notice, IMHO, maybe you should let him know directly, if you haven't. Even when my wife doesn't care or change her behavior, I'm finding it helps to express what is going on in my mind when I am hurt/disappointed, and it helps defuse her tendency to project onto me some other reason for me not being the chipper energetic guy she says she fell in love with. And, especially important, I am connecting, explicitly for her to hear, these continued hurts to my mantra that I am not going to accept this as my future -- "this thing today is an example of what is going to change or be left behind me when I leave."





> He has a wife who wants to set up a tent in the woods and get it on like we did years ago, who thinks he's the cutest man alive...and he broke her heart again yesterday.


He is a lucky and reckless man. The only possible thing I can speculate that might make him seem human is: is it possible he is hurt, angry, and resentful too? (Not saying such feelings would be justified, just maybe that would explain his otherwise reckless behavior?)



> ....So....I'm going to focus on taking care of myself. I'm going to lose the extra 20-30 lbs I've put on with him, and maybe buy a kayak, and the bike I've been wanting for years. If I'm going to give up and let my hyman grow back in, I may as well enjoy myself.


Good idea -- taking care of yourself!

Re. The growing back, I think my brain just shutdown, in some sort of under-sexed male automatic self-preservation response  (Btw, growing back happened once in a Tom Robbins novel. Didn't see what happened next coming...)


----------



## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

OP, you seem .... so nice. And have given and given and given.
It makes me think of the word boundaries. 
Have you ever given any thought to this?

Have you ever considered matching your level of intimacy that you ask from him... to the level that he gives you?

Some male posters can explain this better than I can... 
-No chase is sometimes a turn off for men
-Asking makes you appear selfish and needy (that's how it can be viewed by a man)
-A lack of boundaries and self confidence can be a turn off to some men
-If you have ever conveyed the message that without sex you don't feel loved or wanted, that can be a turn off for a MAN. (they don't want to be responsible for that)

I ask these things because you write that he repeatedly down talks his appearance. I read that as :
-He's even pointing out that he's not great, and you still fall at his feet and give him massages and treat him like a king. (boundaries)

Sometimes men just want a woman who respects herself, first and foremost. 

Best wishes,


----------



## ginger-snap (Apr 10, 2013)

deejov said:


> OP, you seem .... so nice. And have given and given and given.
> It makes me think of the word boundaries.
> Have you ever given any thought to this?
> 
> ...


So...how do you get them to chase you? Are you saying to act disinterested?


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

CreekWalker said:


> And I'd be happier with sex more than once every 4-8 wks. With kisses and suggestive stuff, and with a healthier lifestyle.


Doh, thought you were saying every 4-8 hrs!


----------



## CreekWalker (May 31, 2013)

These responses are helpful. I am pretty down about things today due to something he did that I was really clear about being an upsetting thing for me. I NEVER set big boundaries or tell him I would prefer he not do something...but I did in this case and he misled me to believe he wasn't doing it then dropped it on me the day before. So...I'm not in a great place.

That said, if we have sex it is at my initiation. Usually once a month or once every 6-8wks when I start to feel like I can't live without some intimacy. The rest of the time it's like he's kissing his mom goodbye. Not that I don't love EVERY kiss....but I miss the passion.

I don't think my husband would chase me if I was 110 lbs with DD boobs. I have no idea why. He had an affair with a woman who is a lotta notches down on the hottie poll in comparison to me. I was SHOCKED. She was everything he says he hates. Very strange.

If you have tactics or ideas...for enticing him, lay them on me. Because we've been on a weekend away in a hotel and he wasn't interested.

Deejov: I have tried cute underwear, being flirty, flashing him (which he used to love), I've been known to bring home toys and lotions and you name it. I will watch porn. I will do anything. He tends to laugh at me. Recently I got him to come to bed, and I was lotioned, very ready to go, and he spent an hour screwing around with the pets with a laser light. I was trying to get his attention to no avail. Problem with your suggestion is that if I don't initiate or even beg...he could live without it forever. I think he'd be happy with a blow job and go to bed (he works nights). And he'd never want anything else.

I have learned through different conversations that he's kind of like my teenagers. He thinks that I'm trying to manipulate him when I'm not. I'm crazy busy. I have a life. I DO NOT play chess games in my head regarding how to get him to do what I want. Unless you count cute underware, and trust me, they're a visual treat for him....hanes are more comfortable. He thinks I'm manipulating him when I'm not even thinking about him...I'm making a mental list of what everyone needs. Ridiculous. I'm an "on the table" sort. I'm all "I miss you....I'd like to...._______" and he laughs and turns on the tv.

I could try to manufacture deadlines...all of that...I feel like I'm just this ridiculous joke. I mean...I get it...I'm no Duck Dynasty or Nascar race, or lawn mower racing show...but wtf does this guy EVER get horny like he used to? 

AAAHHHHHHH. Last night, I was so upset I didn't sleep in our room. It was his night off. I didn't want to discuss anything or argue. I just...hid out. And tomorrow I'm going to leave early to take the kids to breakfast. Then work. That should give him some time to watch porn or whatever he does. 

....I guess I am resentful. He once told me he thinks I use sex as a strange way of getting back at him for the affair. Like I don't want it for the right reasons. I want to punch him. I want get him to understand....our kids are older, I have less responsibility, I have more time now during the day when the kids are gone. I feel like a teenager whose parents are out of the house. What the heck is wrong with wanting to get it on? I think...OMG Let's have a few hours together and I'll make you a sandwich!!!! 

I'm 36. WTF. 

So...advice so far:

~Don't ask for it.
~Make it a deadline thing, or a rush.
~Don't let him think sex helps me feel needed or wanted 

One more question...how did I end up being the guy in this relationship. I don't want to talk it over. I don't care if you want it soft and sweet or want to throw down a blanket in the woods or in the living room. I don't care if you want it rough or not. I'm ready to go. Congrats. I finally have the time to set the sex kitten inside myself that YOU created...free. 

And you're not interested.


----------



## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Why was he in IC?
What were his alleged motivations in having an affair.

The three advice points, I haven't given those much thought. All I can say is I make it as clear as I can these days that I am ready to call it quits -- that the ties that bound me previously (not disrupting D10, D13's world) cannot be done -- I feel like staying is literally killing me (dramatic, perhaps, but how I feel), and that it is worse that our daughters only know how adults can flush their life down the toilet with fear and loathing, instead of live a life driven by love and seeking joy. It probably helps my wife feels the sane way.

Btw, just coming to TAM and doing IC have put my emotions in motion. There are bigger ups and downs now, but I think that is just a good sign something is changing and finally being felt. Still, it's difficult.


----------



## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

I don't understand keeping him from seeing you need sex to feel needed and wanted. It's not like the his fire is still burning and you are just trying to fan the flames by being all mysterious and hard to get.

It seems like your marriage is in the worst crises ever -- perhaps more than during the affair? -- and so maybe being blunt about your needs/requirements that he must engage at some level for you to not just walk away, seems necessary. 

WTF do I know, though. Except to say I am way past wanting to court her on a daily basis just in case it might be the right thing at the right time for her to reluctantly let me "mount" her for awhile (i feel like a dog sometimes). She must engage in the things that will address her anger/hurt/resentment -- like I am doing in myself -- or, what's the point.


Do you know why he is so resentful?

Have you spent time in the CopingWithInfidelity sub forum?

Btw, I don't ask for it now, except once every four months. But I emphasize in between that I WILL be having a full and healthy relationship, one that includes intimacy, eventually -- it's up to her if it will be with her.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

If you make sexual overtures and he doesn't respond, how do you react?

Have you made it explicitly clear that you want to be desired?


----------



## CreekWalker (May 31, 2013)

Sky,
When he left the kids and I suddenly due to the affair, I put the kids and I into therapy. He decided to go to when he realized he wanted to come home. 

His motivations for the affair are fogged up. He said he hadn't felt happy in 10 years, that he and I did nothing but fight. Pretty much anything you can imagine to justify it....even when the evidence shows that these are kind of crazy things to think. 

I think...he was almost 40, looked around at how tied down he is, and how his friends are/were all divorcing and had a ton of freedom, and here was this crazy woman with no kids, no responsibilities...and it just happened. He acted completely different. 

I think he has a hard time not procrastinating. And he just zones out regarding emotions and regarding doing what he should. I wish he had stayed in counseling. I went for a while...and didn't have great results. I'm a "doer" and sitting there with a guy asking "why are you with him? Why do you love him?" I realized it wasn't helping. At some point during that...I had been laid off and couldn't find work, so used a full scholarship and went back to school. Will finish a BS in Psych next semester. It took me 3 years, now for a masters or psy-d. Not sure.

I worry...if I can't figure out what to do in my own marriage, how will I ever do this job (a job my H doesn't really respect). I really found my counselors awful over the years. I think I can do better. 

My kids have started being very vocal about their thoughts on me and their dad being together. They think I should finish school and leave. My kids have said many times that their dad doesn't deserve me. Or commented on how much calmer things are when he's not here. I HATE that. Because I do love him and I wish he could invest in being happier. But I don't see it happening. 

When he asked to come home we voted, and let him home. I wish I knew why he wanted to come home.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Creek, read your post again.

Why do you love him? Why did you let him come home? Why didn't you ask him?

Maybe read up on codependency....


----------



## CreekWalker (May 31, 2013)

I love him for a million reasons. I let him come home because he's my guy and I love him. He was hurting and vulnerable and needed me. 

I was co-dependent for years. I'm not now. Though...I won't do anything to lose custody of my kids. I'm a 7 day a week mom and that is that. Anything (barring physical abuse) I might take...if it meant not going to bed under a roof without my kids. Today...I give a lot but I do for me too. I'm not co-dependent anymore. I do feel sorry for my husband and what he is losing out on. I have my own goals now. I don't worry so much about what others think (except for my adviser HA). 

I don't know how anyone explains love. It's just love. I love him. When I close my eyes...I just do. I understand that when I need him most (like I did when he left-I was ill) I just...need to be strong for myself and not expect help...but I still love him. If I end up leaving...I'll still love him. I will never ever ever want to see him again because I'll love him. Lucky him I hope.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

True that about love, but is love blocking out more or other feelings?

There is a practical aspect of self preservation and self sanity in all this. How much do feelings about someone else are worth relative to self preservation and sanity?


----------



## CreekWalker (May 31, 2013)

I probably do use love as a band-aid for other things. But...I am very dependent on him right now. When he decided to come back, I had a full time job and a house to rent lined up. I was ok. I didn't even take child support from him for 4 months he was not helping. 

I'm the sort who worked 3 part time jobs to have money to buy our house. 

But right now I'm in school. I want to be able to support myself if he leaves again. So I'm workng towards that goal.

I just HATE not being wanted sexually.

I am able to put everything aside and just get naked and enjoy that time together. I think it goes a long way to healing a lot of things. It's so enjoyable. Why does it have to be such an issue? I don't get it. 

Right now I'm pretty sad and upset over this weekend. So I am not being the huggy kissy snuggly woman. People here said not to seem too needy so....maybe that's a good thing. But...I live every day knowing he cheated because he didn't feel loved (according to him) so I try to show that love all the time. Who knows what the could shoulder will do.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

CreekWalker said:


> I probably do use love as a band-aid for other things. But...I am very dependent on him right now. When he decided to come back, I had a full time job and a house to rent lined up. I was ok. I didn't even take child support from him for 4 months he was not helping.
> 
> I'm the sort who worked 3 part time jobs to have money to buy our house.
> 
> ...


With someone who doesn't like being "snuggly", does it seem like your violated if your husband might want to put his arm around you in the spoon position or something? Not all the time, but some of the time.


----------



## CreekWalker (May 31, 2013)

I normally am very snuggly. not in a strange forceful way...but I'm a physical person. 

He just really hurt my feelings and messed with my head Fri/Sat. So...at the moment I'm taking space to think. This is new for me. But...I feel like if I address the issue...it will hurt more. Because I tried and it did and continuing that is not good. So for the moment I'm taking space. For probably the first time ever. He knew how I felt...I actually told him if he did this thing he wouldn't come home to me. He knew I couldn't leave...so here I am. But...part of me is broken...again.

He used to be more into sex. But he has never been a verbal guy. I had to guess a lot. 

Very sad actually.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

It's very hard to figure something like this out when you are forced the play the guessing game. It would be so much easier if your husband would open up and be honest about why he withholds sex.

You say you love him, you don't know why but you just do. I find it interesting that for such a smart woman as yourself, you weren't able to come up with a list of his qualities that you admire, a list of things he does that make you feel loved, something about him, anything. Instead your reply was, I just do.

People fall in love because there is a strong element of endorphins and pheromones and a chemical kick that happens when we click with someone we also find attractive and makes us feel loved. people stay in love when the behavior that prompted that mixed bag of reactions continues AND behavior that hurts us is infrequent enough that we recover.

Your husband hasn't done much these last several years to show his love, nor to reinforce your love for him. being financially dependent is NOT going to produce love, and you know this. He has done some major things that would kill love, hasn't done anything to encourage love... And yet here you are.

Youre a psych major and yet haven't been able to stick with therapy. I think that is because you are being asked to look inside yourself with clarity and you refuse to do that. If you do do that, what you will find is something that will topple this house of cards you've built around your marriage.

People post stuff on this forum and open their hearts to get clarity. You are trying to figure out why he isn't loving you when you should be trying to figure out why you love a man who treats you this way.

You are a doormat. You congratulate yourself for being low maintenance but you are just being a door mat. You have no boundaries, you put up with, ignore, and forgive behavior that would send the most starry eyed person out the door. If you don't respect yourself enough to put your foot down, how can you expect your husband to treat you better?


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> If you make sexual overtures and he doesn't respond, how do you react?
> 
> Have you made it explicitly clear that you want to be desired?


In hardcore LD Stage IV cases any moves that would result in action are generally met with absolute apathy and immediate and blatant rejection. Seems that their concern for not putting out overshadows and prevents any rational discussion potential.

You really have no good way to react that is constructive and conducive to improvement. It is that simple.

It is a no win situation for either partner.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

john117 said:


> In hardcore LD Stage IV cases any moves that would result in action are generally met with absolute apathy and immediate and blatant rejection. Seems that their concern for not putting out overshadows and prevents any rational discussion potential.
> 
> You really have no good way to react that is constructive and conducive to improvement. It is that simple.
> 
> It is a no win situation for either partner.


Exactly. It's a no win situation. I bet he really enjoys the way he can control her.

Tell me, how many husbands would be advised to stick with a wife who cheated on them, then became extremely LD during reconciliation? Answer, not a single husband would be counseled to try this or explore that to get her interested in sex again.


----------



## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

CreekWalker said:


> Lol I actually feel like I need to defend myself. I was willing to do it in the mini-van in a public...area. I've made him pull over to do it in the woods. I'll put porn on and molest him in the living room in the middle of the day. He works nights and I will make him breakfast and put him to bed with a BJ. Tuck him in and go about my day. I don't really have anything I'll turn down in the bedroom. Just please...please come to me when I have brushed my teeth and I'm not in hard core sleep mode an hour or two before the kid's school bus comes.


You don't need to defend yourself. He's your husband and sex is a need. If he's not willing to meet that need, that's on HIM...not you. Sure their can be some resentment due to some previous rejection that he got, but most men's libido is not silenced by resentment like it is for women. 

Basically, we're still willing and able to go even though we've been hurt. I won't touch the cheating because it sounds like that isn't central to the problem here.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Stage IV LD is all about control.... And the only way you deal with control is with more control... Classic negative feedback loop.


----------



## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

john117 said:


> Stage IV LD is all about control.... And the only way you deal with control is with more control... Classic negative feedback loop.


john117,

Is "Stage IV LD" a term you are coining, or are there stages defined somewhere in a book, etc.

Either way, it seems useful to think in such terms. My wife and I's LD/HD (err, 0D/xD) troubles have gone through stages, or at least phases.


----------



## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> Tell me, how many husbands would be advised to stick with a wife who cheated on them, then became extremely LD during reconciliation? Answer, not a single husband would be counseled to try this or explore that to get her interested in sex again.


AP, your earlier post had much wisdom. But, this question makes me uncomfortable. I hope no one uses it to refocus this thread on discussions of alleged gender biases here on TAM.

Personally, at this point, I think the sex issues are the least of OP's relationship problems. The bigger problems are what have to be fixed -- IF she wants to try to save the marriage and build a better future with him. I have an opinion on whether that is a worthwhile endeavor, but am mostly keeping it to myself at the moment because I don't think me saying it will help OP; it's that and nothing more.

Btw, I am, so far, sticking with a wife who cheated (EA) and became LD during reconciliation, and have been counseled here on TAM to try this or that to get her more interested in sex again. So, it happens. (The counseling part, not so much her actually getting more interested. )


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

It is my own definition  but one should strive to quantify what LD means in terms of some relatively standardized scale.

Stages I and II are likely the twice a week vs four times a week type issues fixable by the usual books, seminars, MC, and the like. III would be the once a week vs once a month or minor power struggles but still salvageable while IV would be anything from merchant marine up, intentional issues, etc.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

PieceOfSky said:


> AP, your earlier post had much wisdom. But, this question makes me uncomfortable. I hope no one uses it to refocus this thread on discussions of alleged gender biases here on TAM.
> 
> Personally, at this point, I think the sex issues are the least of OP's relationship problems. The bigger problems are what have to be fixed -- IF she wants to try to save the marriage and build a better future with him. I have an opinion on whether that is a worthwhile endeavor, but am mostly keeping it to myself at the moment because I don't think me saying it will help OP; it's that and nothing more.
> 
> Btw, I am, so far, sticking with a wife who cheated (EA) and became LD during reconciliation, and have been counseled here on TAM to try this or that to get her more interested in sex again. So, it happens. (The counseling part, not so much her actually getting more interested. )



Thank you for pointing that out, you are absolutely right. I don't want this or any thread to devolve into gender bashing. I was unaware of your situation, so please disregard my post. 

FWIW, double standards really get my goat and I am quick, perhaps too quick, to call them out.


----------



## CreekWalker (May 31, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> It would be so much easier if your husband would open up and be honest about why he withholds sex.
> 
> ~Yes. Yes it would.
> 
> ...


~I'm not a doormat. But I'd rather go for a swim, or walk the dog, or volunteer at the animal shelter, or go take photos than get my nails done. What I was saying is...I'm a cheap date. I'm not hauling around expensive purses or begging for them. I have no unsecured debt because I don't do credit cards. I've been known to trim my own hair. I style it too. I'm just...low maintenance. A do-it-yourselfer.

A big part of dealing with everything has always been the kids. I want to be there for them 7 days a week. And there isn't much I think is worth giving that up for. The youngest starts high school next year. I guess...yeah...I'm starting to think "what happens when I don't have that hanging over my head anymore?" 

~Sad thing...I don't expect to be treated any different. I don't waste energy on trying to influence him anymore. I just...fix everything that needs fixing myself. I feel sorry for him because he's here...but not here. I really do do my own thing now. And I'm ok with that. But...at heart I'm a half of a whole kind of person. I MISS being a couple. I want to be a couple. I LOVE taking care of people.

I thought....that figuring out the sex thing would be a good start. But..I have no idea what to do. I'm going nuts and starting to be not as nice as I should. I have been very stand offish since Sat. Not to be a *****, but to control myself. To not cry. To...take a step back and recognize that his actions were a power play. That really hurt the camel's back. 

As for psych...I am considering counseling...but being pulled back into business here and there. Maybe organizational psych is in my future. Or clinical psych. It depends on which grad schools offer me the best packages.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I know I am sounding tough here. I am doing it on purpose, because I think its what you need right now. I could be wrong..it has happened a time or two (or so I'm told ) 

Okay, it sounds like your first two therapists did more harm than good. I strongly urge you to get referrals for good therapists.

Because...

Why are you hiding the fact that his actions hurt you so deeply you are still feeling the need to cry? What happens if he sees you upset?

Being a door mat isn't about money, it's about accepting crap behavior and not making a fuss about it. It's about allowing people to treat you badly. It's about turning the other cheek when what you should do is step out of the way of the hand coming at you!

Your H stood by you and was your excellent partner in getting your sick child cared for. He supported you and backed you up, but somewhere along the line a disconnect happened. Instead of dealing with you about it, he gave in to temptation and had a ONS. So while you're doing everything you can to meet the needs of all your kids and your husband, he fVcks another woman! 

Now you are trying to jump through hoops to reconnect. Realizing you have sexual needs and desires and he turns you away? Time and time again he turns you away. He gives you no love, no time, no avenue in which to connect. He works and he watches TV. The clear signal he is sending, that you are not getting is, he doesn't want you. If he wanted you, or gave a crap about your happiness you would not be going through what you're going through.

To keep trying to manufacture love with a person like this...a waste of time. 

He continues because you allow it. Put your foot down.

Be hurt, and show it! If you feel like crying CRY! When he kisses you like he's kissing his grandmother, pull away and tell him no thanks! When he sabotages your attempts for quality time together, walk away and tell him no thanks. Grow a set of boundaries that clearly state, you may not treat me this way!


----------



## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

ginger-snap said:


> So...how do you get them to chase you? Are you saying to act disinterested?


Give him the chance to initiate.

That makes it clear just what is going on.
That puts it back on his responsibility

And it puts the underlying issues out in front.


----------



## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

CreekWalker,

First, do something nice for yourself today, because you deserve it -- you may not have it figured out yet, but you are working on figuring it out, and trying different things.

Those are some awful experiences with therapists. Of the three or four I have had, this last has competence and abilities like I had hoped, and the other three did not. Fire bad therapists, but don't give up on finding a good one.

Here is a bit more about me, but to be clear I dont necessarily think this has anything to do with you - except maybe the lesdon i learned...

i'll confess *I* have been a doormat for years. I started out as a shoulder to cry on, a bit of a punching bag (nothing physical), and her rock. She had chalkenges and disappointnents to desl with. I wanted so much to be whatever she needed me to be to get her through to happier days. So, I never let her see me flinch. Unchecked, I think her insensitiveness grew to blindness, perhaps now willful blindness.

My lesson I have learned of late: if I am disappointed, or get my feelings hurt, or feel she isn't putting in a fair effort at helping fix our relationship, I calmly but directly let her know, and remind her what the stakes are and that the time window is short and closing. I *think* it is having an effect.

By coincidence, I seemed to have lessened my drive by over-indulging in, well, solo work for about a month or two. Wasn't my intent (it was more a damnit I am entitled and I am not in any way going to hold myself back from satisfying myself just in case she might come to bed soon and somehow be interested -- those things never happen), but right now my need to be physical with her does not preoccupy me.

I don't know how intentionally he is hurting you. But, my wife is very resentful at me -- and I keep harping that her resentment only she can fix, and needs to find the initiative to do so.


----------



## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

CreekWalker, 

Do you think your husband might be feeling you are better than he deserves, or can keep? Might he feel inadequate?

I think I have seen men (my dad) feel threatened back when my mom started to spread her career-wings. It was an adjustment for him. But, kudos for her 

Do you think he is depressed.

Whatever he did this weekend that hurt you much, is it something he might feel shame about, ir you might?

Don't let me press you for details, but I'm wondering if there is something in his nature or behaviors that he resents you for inhibiting or outlawing, so to speak. Or, maybe he was just rude and insensitive about a sore spot you have.


----------



## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

CreekWalker said:


> ~I'm not a doormat. But I'd rather go for a swim, or walk the dog, or volunteer at the animal shelter, or go take photos than get my nails done. What I was saying is...I'm a cheap date. I'm not hauling around expensive purses or begging for them. I have no unsecured debt because I don't do credit cards. I've been known to trim my own hair. I style it too. I'm just...low maintenance. A do-it-yourselfer.
> 
> A big part of dealing with everything has always been the kids. I want to be there for them 7 days a week. And there isn't much I think is worth giving that up for. The youngest starts high school next year. I guess...yeah...I'm starting to think "what happens when I don't have that hanging over my head anymore?"
> 
> ...


Scarily, this sounds like what I have gone through recently.

Although I keep on with the IC, and it helped me tremendously.

How did you end up in this kind of relationship? Co-dependent. You are working on it, not that "way"anymore. 
You may have changed. But it's not likely he has. 

Read up on the Passive Aggressive Man and how they withhold sex. Boundaries is one way to deflect this type of behavior.

Lastly... you may want to consider that are expecting him to behave like a husband. Providing and caring for your needs. 
If he's not doing that, what would a boundary be?
It's not fair if you become bitter and resentful. It really isn't.

But you can fire him.


----------



## CreekWalker (May 31, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> I know I am sounding tough here. I am doing it on purpose, because I think its what you need right now. I could be wrong..it has happened a time or two (or so I'm told )
> 
> ~I don't mind tough. I'm looking for ideas and feedback. I'm very frustrated and don't have anyone to bounce things off of.
> 
> ...



~What sucks about that...about pulling away etc. is that it is so much game play. I'm straightforward. "Honey, if you don't want to ________ I'll be disappointed but that is your choice. I want you to be happy if we do it." The closest I've come to setting boundaries is the last few days. I haven't even kissed him goodbye or said I love you. And that **** is outside of my nature. By far. 

I don't want my relationship to be a fricking chess game. I guess I thought when I forgave and when he came home...he'd try a little harder. But...not because I wanted him to change, but because he was disappointed in himself and wanted to change and improve. I have done just that since the affair. It was my wake up call to do a lot of things. Especially school.

I look forward to grad school and if I do study clinical counseling, I look forward to those classes. But I know, nobody could ever get through to my husband. (o: Well at least I can't.


----------



## ginger-snap (Apr 10, 2013)

deejov said:


> Give him the chance to initiate.
> 
> That makes it clear just what is going on.
> That puts it back on his responsibility
> ...


Ah, well, already tried that and ended up going months without so much as an eyebrow waggle. Anyhow, not meant to be a thread hijack...just wasn't quite sure what you meant. Thanks.


----------



## CreekWalker (May 31, 2013)

john117 said:


> In hardcore LD Stage IV cases any moves that would result in action are generally met with absolute apathy and immediate and blatant rejection. Seems that their concern for not putting out overshadows and prevents any rational discussion potential.
> 
> You really have no good way to react that is constructive and conducive to improvement. It is that simple.
> 
> It is a no win situation for either partner.


Do you have any recommended links to this topic I could read?


----------



## CreekWalker (May 31, 2013)

PieceOfSky said:


> CreekWalker,
> 
> Do you think your husband might be feeling you are better than he deserves, or can keep? Might he feel inadequate?
> 
> ...


I don't know if he feels threatened by me. I never considered that... The event he attended is one where I ran into his OW and it didn't go well. I am embarrassed. My PTSD of her and her threats to me and my kids went off at that event, as I realized she was there and ran out in front of hundreds of people. I really am ashamed. But the invite was extended this year and he was told that what happened there "had nothing to do with him." But...it did. It really did. So...he said he was going to a game, but went there at the last minute...a mind change. He did take a cousin I trust (his family and friends lied about the Affair for him and they go). But...I feel so horrible and undervalued and misunderstood and disrespected. It feels like I cope with the mess of it all, and he just moved on. Like God forbid he give up this one thing.

I feel that him going to this just...hurt a lot. Disrespected me. And was too much. He thinks I'm insane. I think this may be a deal breaker in the long run. Neither he nor I is in a position to dramatically divorce. But...this event broke my heart. I want him to WANT to make it better for us. Not just do whatever he wants. THere are so many other events he could attend. I'm crying writing this. Because it was about more than him going. It was about how bad it was handled at the time. How close I came to leaving after that event. How out of control his affair made me (I know it was my choice to lose my ****, not his, but if he hadn't have done that...I would never have been in that position) for them to say it wasn't his fault...and he agreed and traipsed happily to the event....God it just hurts. It's devaluing. I didn't know he would go. The whole week before I was thinking "how can I be more attractive to him and what am I doing wrong?" 

Now...I can't sleep and I'm just...sad. It's like this stupid event was part of what defined the pain for me. The shame (you really hit that nail on the head). 

I think this...combined with the lack of passion and intimacy...is more than I can mentally and emotionally digest right now.


----------



## ginger-snap (Apr 10, 2013)

I am so sorry Creekwalker. Truly. I wish I could offer you more words of comfort. I would feel the same way if I was in your position, and I think you have every right to feel betrayed.


----------



## CreekWalker (May 31, 2013)

PieceOfSky said:


> CreekWalker,
> 
> First, do something nice for yourself today, because you deserve it -- you may not have it figured out yet, but you are working on figuring it out, and trying different things.
> 
> ...


~I'm sick of the resentment too. Like...really? Every time you aren't happy with what I want or ask for or need or don't want today...you'll throw resentment of the past in my face? Like he's a lawyer with a little notebook full of my foibles. Lol

Thanks for sharing. It's interesting to know how many people experience this sort of thing.


----------



## CreekWalker (May 31, 2013)

ginger-snap said:


> Ah, well, already tried that and ended up going months without so much as an eyebrow waggle. Anyhow, not meant to be a thread hijack...just wasn't quite sure what you meant. Thanks.


That has been my experience too!!!


----------



## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

CreekWalker,

Wow, that's rough. 

You are not insane.

It never helps to tell someone he or she "shouldn't" feel something, but I am very sorry to hear you feel shame about the affair and/or your reaction to it. 

And, with his family and friends helping him not take responsibility for any of it -- that's just low.

I don't want to keep overloading your thread with anecdotes from my life, but, there is something similar (but much milder in ways), that my wife did to me on our wedding day. It left me feeling pretty helpless and hurt, but who in the world could I tell? I feel a bit humiliated by it, especially considering i sort if let it happen, and almost as if I am being "too sensitive" -- even though logically I think I'm "just" to be pissed. Things like that just suck.


Please consider reading and/or posting in the CopingWithInfidelity sub forum, if you haven't. It seems like the affair hasn't been dealt with sufficiently (if even possible). At a minimum, he does not understand what pain he has caused you, and seems to not even own his responsibility for it. Fighting with the recurring problems that will cause has to be avoided, one way or another, if you are going to be happy and fulfilled.

Take care.


----------



## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Essentially he owns the house?

Are you sure you understand the laws in your locale?

In mine, with small exceptions, houses are marital property, and the baseline split is 50/50.

If you think knowledge of your possible financial outcomes of divorce might be helpful, there are inexpensive ways to get informed opinions on that.


----------



## CreekWalker (May 31, 2013)

Thanks Sky and Ginger.

I want to have the affair behind me so badly. But...the truth is probably that it will never be. Because he's not doing the work to do that.

Essentially...I have dealt with it. I know what parts are such chaos that there is no unraveling the tangle. I spent a long time figuring that out with friends. And decided I wanted to be married to this man and have a new start.

I just saw the sex/intimacy issue as something that needs work. Because at the end of the day I'm in need of it...and he has changed and isn't. I don't know what to do. Funny that the affair isn't a deal breaker but the lack of sex and intimacy could be. As silly as it sounds...I miss making out with my husband. I miss the feeling that he wants me. 

Not sure how to fix that. I need to look up passive aggressive men and sex issues...that was suggested. 

It's unfortunate that in trying to take the bull by the horns on the sex issue...I ended up in a trigger over the skank sighting event.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Creekwalker, I'm sorry I got you confused with another poster about the ONS. Your correction actually makes things appear even worse.

You say you don't want to play games. BUT...By setting down your boundaries you are refusing to play his game. if you are clear in what you want, what you expect, then he counters with half ass, saying NO THANKS is not engaging in his game. If you take his half assed attempt, then what does that communicate to him?

You are not raising a child where you praise the effort. This man knows exactly what he is doing. Gaslighting!

He left you recovering from surgery, moved in with another woman, then a few months later, when you were back on your feet her asks to come back. Since he's been back he done nothing to rebuild, but has in fact added to your misery.

I think this man is playing horrible destructive head games with you! I think he wants out but is doing all that he can to make you the bad guy. I think you are making a fool of yourself to try to entice a man into your bed who is in reality thinking of another woman and just waiting for you to get so sick of him you up and leave.

Would you want any of your children to stick it out with a spouse who treated them the way your husband treats you? Would you support your daughter taking her husband back after he ditched her when she needed surgery, moved in with another woman and then came back once your daughters health returned? NO YOU WOULD NOT!

You are classic codependent. I know you said you used to be, but you still are. This is why you must find a therapist or at the very least start attended Alanon, where you will learn to recognize your codependent behaviors by seeing those same behaviors in most everyone else there.

Heal thyself!


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

CreekWalker said:


> Do you have any recommended links to this topic I could read?


I am afraid not, as it is not something a lot of people are capable of doing. Or should be doing. In essence it involves treating him the same way he treats you....

I feel like the sex issue has pushed us well past the point of no return. To go from planning our retirement in Boston or Atlanta or what not in a high rise to arguing about every little detail because she has checked out... Well, there is pain and there is pain. But individually I am ok with it.


----------



## CreekWalker (May 31, 2013)

I'm not codependent anymore. But I am dependent. And I have to stay that way for a while longer. For a few really good reasons.

That said, it won't always be the case. And deep down I know that if he doesn't change, or grow, I have to go. 

Right now...it's the responsible thing that I have to do. I think he and I both know that this time period is one that will decide fate. If he chooses not to talk and grow, and keeps his habit of stonewalling...the day will come. He knows that he has the upper hand right now financially and for insurance...but I'm working to change that.


----------



## dsGrazzl3D (Apr 22, 2013)

CreekWalker said:


> If he chooses not to talk and grow, and keeps his habit of stonewalling...the day will come. He knows that he has the upper hand right now financially and for insurance...but I'm working to change that.


Have you both ever examined your past? I always recommend looking back to understand where you came from and what your past was... 
What I mean by this is, that his parents relationship, his childhood, and yours will have a lot more insight as to what went wrong.... We use the past to predict the future for a reason. It can be a good tool to use for a large majority of people. It is never easy to overcome your own past. 
I know you've stated MC is not an option b/c of cost. Counselors will always try to get you to communicate. They need you both to talk, It's a large majority of their job. I think you both have a lot of issues that you can work on. I hope you find a way to communicate with your husband and the both of you can work on these issues together. 

I think your desperation does translate here. It sounds pretty bleak from your description, so far. I hope you can both find out if your vows of marital commitment can withstand the test of time. I tend to agree with many things already stated earlier. *BUT* I think that any solution must start with honesty, openness, and a willingness to surrender. I'm going to hope you can find a spark. I'll pray for your marriage. Good Luck.


----------



## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Look up "In Sheeps Clothing" by George Simon. Just started it myself. Potentially eye opening.

In this limbo state, I suspect some would recommend doing the 180 as defined in a book (Divorce Busting) by Michelle Weiner-Davis.

It is normal to desire intimate kissing, and to want to be wanted. Once my wife started refusing kissing more than a peck, she could not deflect my accusation that she must really really resent me.

To me, the worst part has been her indifference.


----------



## CreekWalker (May 31, 2013)

PieceOfSky said:


> Look up "In Sheeps Clothing" by George Simon. Just started it myself. Potentially eye opening.
> 
> In this limbo state, I suspect some would recommend doing the 180 as defined in a book (Divorce Busting) by Michelle Weiner-Davis.
> 
> ...


I need to look that book up. 

You are right about the worst part being indifference. I have not slept in the bedroom with my husband since Friday May 31. In the last 10 days I haven't initiated conversation, or said "I love you." I haven't gone running to the door when he gets home for a hug. I haven't waited at the door for a kiss goodbye. I have not physically reached out and touched him. I haven't done the silly little things I do to show my love. I have tried very hard to SHOW my love because he indicated 4 years ago...that he didn't feel loved. And though I started these 10 days still making his lunch, and making sure dinner is done so he can have it before work...I haven't done that in a few days either.

He had a chance, to talk to me, in a calm private place and chose not to. 

In these 10 days I've decided I will NEVER, EVER, EVER push him for lovemaking again. And I will never accept the pity sex I have pushed him into every month or so, again.

If he doesn't want me, then so be it. But I'm not sleeping next to a man, and hugging a man...who I so desperately want that those simple acts make me weak kneed and sad. 

I can't do that to myself anymore. I don't know what happens next. I'm barely hanging on. Going away this weekend with a friend (a fun/sort of work/thing with a gal pal/and b4 you ask I'm not a lesbian ). 

Has anyone else just...given up and decided to go the roomate track?


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

I have no problem hanging in there and it's not like my situation is much better. Ultimately, maybe in a year, maybe on the way to the nursing home or deeper in the ground they may get the message. 

I do not feel sad or depressed or anything. When you are dealing with someone who can't appreciate you for what you are and what you have to offer , but instead hide behind this acronym or that, what does it add to get upset? It will not change the situation.

For the past month I'm playing ND. She is quite upset, so it's not like she has shut down sexually. She wants it to be in her terms and her terms alone. Must have missed the memos on marriage involving two people I guess.

But still it is quite a discovery to see her figure out she has needs. Maybe there is a lesson to be learned here? Complete (temporary) checkout may re-ignite interest?

We will see.


----------



## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

I sometimes wonder if in the midst of experiencing this sort of problem, and/or after making a conscious or unconscious choice to give up on the hope that it will turn around, does one go through a grief process -- sort of like with other losses in life (e.g., "there are five stages of grief....").

I do feel like I am going through different stages, where pain that was always present is now replaced by my own apathy or disinterest. Feeling more detached from her. ...


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

If it is a gradual reduction over a period of years, well, that is 'justifiable' and 'expected' and not really grief-able.

It's like living in Venice and being upset you don't have a basement 

Grief happens once its all set and done and you're in LD Stage III territory and you realize just what happened. To me this occurred when I noticed the high degree of correlation between fighting and day of the week = 'Friday'... Connecting the dots was pretty easy.


----------



## CreekWalker (May 31, 2013)

john117 said:


> I have no problem hanging in there and it's not like my situation is much better. Ultimately, maybe in a year, maybe on the way to the nursing home or deeper in the ground they may get the message.
> 
> I do not feel sad or depressed or anything. When you are dealing with someone who can't appreciate you for what you are and what you have to offer , but instead hide behind this acronym or that, what does it add to get upset? It will not change the situation.
> 
> ...


You may be on to something.

Note; since I unplugged 13 days ago, he cleaned our pole barn out, it was full to the rafters since we bought the house 8 years ago, he got a roll off. He put the kitchen cupboard knobs on I bought 5 years ago and have begged he install (there were NONE on them), and he helped me with the laundry mat without being asked. He has been more productive than he has in 17 years. so...wtf? Good luck with your ignoring. It is working here. Unfortunately it's so outside of my personality and who I am in a relationship...to be like this...that well it's hard. It's messed up that my cold shoulder is motivational. Right?


----------



## CreekWalker (May 31, 2013)

PieceOfSky said:


> I sometimes wonder if in the midst of experiencing this sort of problem, and/or after making a conscious or unconscious choice to give up on the hope that it will turn around, does one go through a grief process -- sort of like with other losses in life (e.g., "there are five stages of grief....").
> 
> I do feel like I am going through different stages, where pain that was always present is now replaced by my own apathy or disinterest. Feeling more detached from her. ...


In the last few weeks I make a conscious choice to stop trying. Because frankly I'm sick of his rationalizations on the subject. And...love is an action verb. That's what I've always been told. So...maybe the way to communicate with him is to stop doing the loving actions that I do right? Besides, it's agonizing when you try and try and someone doesn't appear to really value you in return. 

Or maybe...he'll think I'm being a biatch. All I know is I don't feel the same and I didn't get here totally on my own.


----------



## CreekWalker (May 31, 2013)

john117 said:


> If it is a gradual reduction over a period of years, well, that is 'justifiable' and 'expected' and not really grief-able.
> 
> It's like living in Venice and being upset you don't have a basement
> 
> Grief happens once its all set and done and you're in LD Stage III territory and you realize just what happened. To me this occurred when I noticed the high degree of correlation between fighting and day of the week = 'Friday'... Connecting the dots was pretty easy.


Grief? I'm NOT ready to bury my sexual attraction to my spouse. I feel like we're young and the kids are almost out of the house...my friends are having babies now :scratchhead: and I settled young and haven't needed a sitter in years. So...this should be like the sexual revolution, like discovering fire, gravity, the written word, or peanut butter in a foreign country. I put everything in life off to settle down young. The one benefit should be wild monkey sex in my 30's with a husband I think is the cutest guy I know. So say I, lol. But if he's not willing to make any inroads...I can't say that I'm ready to act like the Ramones at 36. Frank and Marie can kiss my tanned ass.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

In my case grief is a natural only because I pretty much know the rationale behind my partner's decisions and behavior. Thus, I know what the status is, and with pretty good confidence, what it will be. 

Having all the information does not make it any easier. I know the issue is not with me, I know what is happening is not because of something out if order that I did, and so on. 

At the same time she's dealing with a serious condition (BPD) so walking away Is not a good idea. So I'm out of options. Grief is inevitable whether I acknowledge it or not. And as one could tell pretty easily, there are lots of other things to worry about besides sex...

Now where did Sarah the intern go?


----------



## dsGrazzl3D (Apr 22, 2013)

Any progress here? Hopeful for you.


----------

