# Tempted to Cheat



## sailorgirl (Jun 9, 2010)

The sex life in my 15 year marriage has never been good. We have sex about once every 4 to 8 weeks. It is my husband who has the low sex drive. He says he has no desire for sex. 

When we were dating, it was somewhat long distance. We lived about 80 miles apart but saw each other almost once a week, and usually had sex then. But once we moved in together and got married the sex life when down the tube. I think my husband used sex only to get a wife and children and now that he has a wife and children he no longer wants sex in his life. 

We have been to counseling, many times. He has even discussed this with his doctor, and is physically ok. 

I've given up hope that we will ever have a satisfying sex life. I would like to have sex once or twice a week, and I would like to NOT have to be the one who always starts the sexual advance. 

The really sad thing is that other than this he is a good man. He works hard, is a great father, loyal, funny, smart, a lot of fun to be with. Most people thinks that I have the prefect husband--little do they know. I feel like dog just for even wanting to leave him over sex. But this lack of intimacy, lack of passion is driving me to distraction. 

Recently I have found myself attracted to men who are not my husband. So far I have not dropped any hints or anything a long those lines. EVERYONE thinks I'm so happily married. But if one them was to ever hint at something more I'd do it in a heart beat. All I want is to be held and loved and feel passion again. Why is that so hard for my husband to understand?

I feel so content when I'm held by a pair of warm, strong arms. Sex makes me feel wonderful and pretty and desired. I thought that for the last few years those emotions were completely gone from me. That I was, at last, resigned to a sexless marriage. But they have started haunting me again. 

UGh. I'm just so confused and depressed by all of this. 

And angry. If I have an affair, I'm considered the bad spouse. I would be the outcast and everyone would say "poor mr.______ his wife is such a ****...."


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## helpplease (May 20, 2010)

Have you communicated this clearly to your husband in the same terms that you have said on this site?
Is this a physical or psychological issue for him?

All I can say is do not cheat. You will cause such heartache and pain. I am speaking from experience from a male point of view. 

My wife lost emotional connect with me and decided to stray after 16 years. All I can tell you is to communicate, communicate, communicate. If all else fails you need to divorce before cheating, it is not fair to you, him or the marriage.

Again, I am a little jaded in my relationship but please talk about this to him more. A good book that I may never get to utilize is the "The Five Love Languages" by Gary Chapman. 
If you have an ipod touch or iphone you can have it and read it immediately.

Best of luck


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## Mario Kempes (Jun 12, 2010)

Hi Sailorgirl. I've been through a lot of what you've written about. My wife's low sex drive has caused me a lot of anguish during our married life. I've thought about others now and again and having sex with someone else. In particular with a work colleague who I fancy a lot but I've never cheated on my wife. Partly because deep down, I'm probably too much of a coward and also because the truth has a habit of coming out and I don't think I could live with myself if I deeply hurt all those who would be hurt as a result.

Having said all that, I have said to my wife, on calm discussion occasions, that I had thought of having sex with others. She said that she'd understand if I did but I know that she'd actually be totally devastated if I went through with it. 

Does your husband realise how badly you feel? And could you possibly discuss with him what you're considering doing? I'm asking in the hope that, if he knew how desperate you feel, he might work hard on changing things.

Good luck.


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## cody5 (Sep 2, 2009)

You only live once Salorgirl. No second chances. And you're not getting any younger.

You have my permission. Encouragement, even.


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## sailorgirl (Jun 9, 2010)

helpplease said:


> Have you communicated this clearly to your husband in the same terms that you have said on this site?
> Is this a physical or psychological issue for him?
> 
> All I can say is do not cheat. You will cause such heartache and pain. I am speaking from experience from a male point of view.
> ...


We did the whole "Love Langues" in our last attempt at counseling (which lasted 6 months) His love language is "Service" so I try to always do the things I know makes him feel loved. Cooking his favorite meals, making sure the house says neat, doing little errands like taking his car in for the oil change so that he doesn't have to do it on his day off...

My love language is "Touch" (surprise?) But he claims it is not fair for me to expect him to change. He is happy with himself. He thinks I'm pretty, he just isn't into sex. Even the therapist thinks he is most likely asexual. 

I've told him how much I love it when he holds me, how beautiful I feel on those rare occasions when he starts the sex...but to no avail. It always comes down to me chasing after him and often he finds ways of avoiding me now. Like staying latter at work, or staying on the computer till I'm asleep. 

And no, he is not having an affair. Believe me I investigated this, and nothing. He is just avoiding me. Plain and simple. Once I stop pressuring him for sex for a few months then he will stop avoiding me. 

What I don't understand is, if sex means so little to him--why would it hurt him if I got sex from someone else?


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## sailorgirl (Jun 9, 2010)

Mario Kempes said:


> Hi Sailorgirl. I've been through a lot of what you've written about. My wife's low sex drive has caused me a lot of anguish during our married life. I've thought about others now and again and having sex with someone else. In particular with a work colleague who I fancy a lot but I've never cheated on my wife. Partly because deep down, I'm probably too much of a coward and also because the truth has a habit of coming out and I don't think I could live with myself if I deeply hurt all those who would be hurt as a result.
> 
> Having said all that, I have said to my wife, on calm discussion occasions, that I had thought of having sex with others. She said that she'd understand if I did but I know that she'd actually be totally devastated if I went through with it.
> 
> ...


The last few weeks of therapy we talked about this a lot. How I was feeling very tempted. I even told him the person I was feeling most attracted to. He told me that if I was to cheat he would feel horrible and he would rather I leave before I cheat on him. The problem with that is that I have no where to go. I have about 60k in student loans and medical bill and after a year of searching for work the only job I have landed is part time cashier. I make 7.50 an hour. And I only get about 20 hours a week. There is no way I could support myself on that. And he has said he will not let me have the children if I leave. He would actually sue me for child support. He thinks a woman who walks out because of lack of sex is a bad mother. His family has money and I know without a doubt his mom would get him a great lawyer and I would loose. 

That just makes me so angry. Why am I the bad parent? The bad mother because I want what is normal and natural?  And the really sad thing is when he puts it like that he does make me feel like the bad mom.


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## Mario Kempes (Jun 12, 2010)

sailorgirl said:


> The last few weeks of therapy we talked about this a lot. How I was feeling very tempted. I even told him the person I was feeling most attracted to. He told me that if I was to cheat he would feel horrible and he would rather I leave before I cheat on him. The problem with that is that I have no where to go. I have about 60k in student loans and medical bill and after a year of searching for work the only job I have landed is part time cashier. I make 7.50 an hour. And I only get about 20 hours a week. There is no way I could support myself on that. And he has said he will not let me have the children if I leave. He would actually sue me for child support. He thinks a woman who walks out because of lack of sex is a bad mother. His family has money and I know without a doubt his mom would get him a great lawyer and I would loose.
> 
> That just makes me so angry. Why am I the bad parent? The bad mother because I want what is normal and natural?  And the really sad thing is when he puts it like that he does make me feel like the bad mom.


Oh, Sailorgirl, we have much in common but I really feel for you. That's a horrible situation to be in. In many ways, he's actually controlling you, emotionally and financially. It's like he's telling you that you have to stay and that you have to stay on his terms. He's bullying you. 

You obviously feel very strongly about your situation and you have to be true to yourself. You're not a bad person or a bad mother for feeling like you do. You sound like a wonderful person to me. 

Have you any family or friends who could offer you some financial support? Remaining in your current situation will continue to drag you down even more. You really deserve better.......


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

It won't matter about the lawyer in a communal/marital property state--are you in one? If he has been supporting you, then he will have to continue to do so for as long as the court says is necessary, and he'll have to pay child support as long as you awarded at least 50/50 custody. 

If you are not in a "no fault" state, you may have to file on grounds that he fails to meet his conjugal responsibilities (or whatever the phrase is). Without sex, marriage is just having a roommate. What is the point of that? He cannot sue YOU for child support if you earn less and if the court awards you at least 50% custody--which it will do unless you can be proven to be a very unfit mother. 

It may mean changing a lot about your lifestyle--having to take in a real roommate, for example, to afford a place you can bring the kids. Sharing your room with a child or two until you find a better job. Do not reduce your marriage to this type of financial dependency, and do not let your h scare you into submission. Take the free consultation with one or more attorneys to find out what you can expect. Don't let him threaten you and just assume he's being "honest" about anything. 

Is your h possibly gay? There is really no "normal" that involves zero sex drive in a man, as far as I can tell. he may be lying to you about his medical check up (unless you were there; and you could insist on going with him), or he is hiding his true orientation. 

If either partner is unhappy about the sex life and it cannot be resolved, that is good grounds for an amicable divorce. It would be better--MUCH BETTER--for the kids to part as friends. Tell him that. If he cannot imagine his life without the kids half the time, then he needs to get a reality check and do something to make you happy OR, for the kids' sake, he needs to share them equally with you and stop being a bully. He is wrong if he thinks it makes you a "bad mother" to want to have a healthy, active sex life. That is pretty much considered a "given" in marriage and is a very common grounds for divorce. Just don't get caught cheating--let the divorce finalize (it's still a felony in some states!!) if that is the route you go. Talk to a lawyer and empower yourself. Negotiate with h, go to the doctor w/ him, and discuss amicable divorce and shared custody. Heck, you could even share a duplex if that would work. But do not give up on your happiness. Good luck.


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## sailorgirl (Jun 9, 2010)

Mario Kempes said:


> Oh, Sailorgirl, we have much in common but I really feel for you. That's a horrible situation to be in. In many ways, he's actually controlling you, emotionally and financially. It's like he's telling you that you have to stay and that you have to stay on his terms. He's bullying you.
> 
> You obviously feel very strongly about your situation and you have to be true to yourself. You're not a bad person or a bad mother for feeling like you do. You sound like a wonderful person to me.
> 
> Have you any family or friends who could offer you some financial support? Remaining in your current situation will continue to drag you down even more. You really deserve better.......



I don't have any friends I would feel comfortable going to for financial support. In fact the few lady friends I have talked to about this thinks I'm crazy for being upset about the lack of sex in our relationship. Out of my friends I have only told two, and both of them now thinks my husband is amazing because he doesn't pester me for sex. They both see sex as a chore and something they have to do to keep their man happy. In away I think that is how my husband feels. Sex is a chore for him. I don't want to be a chore, I don't want sex with me to be something he has to check off his "to do" list. (pun not intended)

As for family, no not really. My dad is dead and my mom is always drunk. She can barely afford to take care of herself. At the moment she is living with an abusive alcoholic. There is my sister--but she has 4 kids, one with life threaten medical problems. I would only want to go to her if it was completely needed. As if he was physically abusing me or hurting the kids. I can not see burdening her with my problems.


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## sailorgirl (Jun 9, 2010)

sisters359 said:


> It won't matter about the lawyer in a communal/marital property state--are you in one? If he has been supporting you, then he will have to continue to do so for as long as the court says is necessary, and he'll have to pay child support as long as you awarded at least 50/50 custody.
> 
> If you are not in a "no fault" state, you may have to file on grounds that he fails to meet his conjugal responsibilities (or whatever the phrase is). Without sex, marriage is just having a roommate. What is the point of that? He cannot sue YOU for child support if you earn less and if the court awards you at least 50% custody--which it will do unless you can be proven to be a very unfit mother.
> 
> ...


I did go to the doctor with him when we went to discuss if there was a reason for his low sex drive. The doctor said there was no underlying physical reason that he could determine. No low testosterone ect...All the doctor had to say was that people have different sex drives and if it was a problem we should go to counseling. Which is what we did. 

I believe the state we live in is a "no-fault" state. I think I will talk to a lawyer about this. I am still worried about losing the kids. And in many ways I hate to put the kids through this. I know he will make it a messy divorce. At this point the kids are completely unprepared for this. We never argue in front of the kids and they never knew we went to marriage counseling--we always went when they were in school. 

But yes, it is very much like living with a room mate. Except this room mate has a legal right to control my sex life.


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## Mario Kempes (Jun 12, 2010)

sailorgirl said:


> I don't have any friends I would feel comfortable going to for financial support. In fact the few lady friends I have talked to about this thinks I'm crazy for being upset about the lack of sex in our relationship. Out of my friends I have only told two, and both of them now thinks my husband is amazing because he doesn't pester me for sex. They both see sex as a chore and something they have to do to keep their man happy. In away I think that is how my husband feels. Sex is a chore for him. I don't want to be a chore, I don't want sex with me to be something he has to check off his "to do" list. (pun not intended)
> 
> As for family, no not really. My dad is dead and my mom is always drunk. She can barely afford to take care of herself. At the moment she is living with an abusive alcoholic. There is my sister--but she has 4 kids, one with life threaten medical problems. I would only want to go to her if it was completely needed. As if he was physically abusing me or hurting the kids. I can not see burdening her with my problems.


I have a lot of friends but i have never discussed my situation with any of them. They all think ours is the perfect marriage. And apart from the lack of sex, it is in many ways. I really would love to talk to someone about it but I can't. That's why sites like this are so good.

I can understand how some of your friends think your husband is amazing for not looking for sex, but I don't agree with them. We go along with stereotype stuff too much, don't we? _All married women hate sex and all married men are always looking for it!_  

You don't sound like you have a lot of options at the moment. Have you thought about a f*** buddy? Could you manage that without him knowing? I know it'd be wrong but you only have one life and he doesn't deserve you.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

sisters359 said:


> Is your h possibly gay? There is really no "normal" that involves zero sex drive in a man, as far as I can tell. he may be lying to you about his medical check up (unless you were there; and you could insist on going with him), or he is hiding his true orientation.


Good point! There is something definitely wrong here. How was the testosterone level? Is the problem physiological? As in being brought up in a house where sex was "dirty" and should be done only to procreate?! 

Don't cheat! That will create far more problems. Have you seen a therapist for individual counseling? I believe that would be my next step.


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## sailorgirl (Jun 9, 2010)

Mario Kempes said:


> I have a lot of friends but i have never discussed my situation with any of them. They all think ours is the perfect marriage. And apart from the lack of sex, it is in many ways. I really would love to talk to someone about it but I can't. That's why sites like this are so good.
> 
> I can understand how some of your friends think your husband is amazing for not looking for sex, but I don't agree with them. We go along with stereotype stuff too much, don't we? _All married women hate sex and all married men are always looking for it!_
> 
> You don't sound like you have a lot of options at the moment. Have you thought about a f*** buddy? Could you manage that without him knowing? I know it'd be wrong but you only have one life and he doesn't deserve you.


Sometimes I almost wish I could just trade hubbys with my girlfriends, LOL. It makes me sad that so many people out there see sex as a chore. 

As for a F--- buddy. I am thinking about it. At one time in our marriage my husband did give me permission to do this. we talked about it for a long time time and then I went out and "dated" and found someone that I was sexually compatible with. After about 3 months though, my husband was having a hard time coping with it. Here is the irony, he was afraid I would leave him for this other man. Which I didn't think I would. This is also what I fear he would bring up in a divorce situation. 

We talked about an open relationship again this last time in counseling. But he said he couldn't do it again. He'd rather I leave before I cheat on him. I think if I knew without a doubt that I could keep an affair secret I would do it.

But there's the rub--affairs almost always come out in the end. And I think I would feel horrible for keeping secrets from him.


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## sailorgirl (Jun 9, 2010)

827Aug said:


> Good point! There is something definitely wrong here. How was the testosterone level? Is the problem physiological? As in being brought up in a house where sex was "dirty" and should be done only to procreate?!
> 
> Don't cheat! That will create far more problems. Have you seen a therapist for individual counseling? I believe that would be my next step.


I really doubt he is gay and according to his doctor his testosterone level is normal. 

I don't know if I can afford individual counseling. Marriage counseling is covered by his insurance, but not individual counseling.


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## Mario Kempes (Jun 12, 2010)

sailorgirl said:


> Sometimes I almost wish I could just trade hubbys with my girlfriends, LOL. It makes me sad that so many people out there see sex as a chore.
> 
> As for a F--- buddy. I am thinking about it. At one time in our marriage my husband did give me permission to do this. we talked about it for a long time time and then I went out and "dated" and found someone that I was sexually compatible with. After about 3 months though, my husband was having a hard time coping with it. Here is the irony, he was afraid I would leave him for this other man. Which I didn't think I would. This is also what I fear he would bring up in a divorce situation.
> 
> ...


That's all very interesting. To be honest, it does sound, like previous posters said, that your hubby may be gay. Especially when he was happy to leave you to your own devices and he sat idly by.

Do you know if he gets up to anything in private? Is he secretive about his cell phone or his emails, for example? Maybe it's time to start looking for tell tale signs of something. If you did discover that he was up to something, it would dramatically level the playing field for you!


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## sailorgirl (Jun 9, 2010)

Mario Kempes said:


> That's all very interesting. To be honest, it does sound, like previous posters said, that your hubby may be gay. Especially when he was happy to leave you to your own devices and he sat idly by.
> 
> Do you know if he gets up to anything in private? Is he secretive about his cell phone or his emails, for example? Maybe it's time to start looking for tell tale signs of something. If you did discover that he was up to something, it would dramatically level the playing field for you!


I almost wish it was that. And he asked me to end the affair I was having, and put an end to the open relationship. It wasn't idle--at the time he said he thought about killing himself because I was with another man. That is what I don't understand. He can not stand the thought of me with another, but he doesn't want to be with me either. He even admits that it is selfish of him, but he also says he is just told old to change. He is only 41.

As for secretive--no. I can read e-mails if I want, and he has no problems with me checking his cell phone. When he says he is at work he is at work. I know because I did suspect that maybe he was seeing someone else or gay or something--but no I would drive by and his car would be there, I would drop in and he would be there. I check his history on the computer and there is nothing to arouse suspicion. Even with games like WOW and Everquest. I can and have stayed up all night with him watching him game. Most of the people he games with are male coworkers, and the few out of state females he games never said anything to him that would be considered inappropriate. The few times I have talked to them, they seem sad that I don't play with them.


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## Susan2010 (Apr 19, 2010)

You need a sex therapist, one with a background in psychology (and really great if they worked in marriage counseling for a period). That person would be better equipped than a marriage counselor to dig deep and bring out your husband's real problem. The cost can be billed to your insurance as marriage counseling. Talk to the counselor about it.

Other than that, you are going to have to bite the bullet and leave. All his threats are just that - nothing but threats. He has successfully placed fear in you to make you too afraid to leave. You believe him, but he has no control whatsoever. He can say whatever wants. He can try whatever he wants. He and his mother both can go broke from paying lawyers. The outcome will be the same. You said you would talk to a lawyer, but you have to talk with 2 just for your own satisfaction that the outcome will be the same. How will you know? Because they will both tell you much the same thing. He might try to get custody but he won't. Based on his attempt, you both will be awarded joint (50/50) custody with you named as the custodial parent. You will be named custodial parent unless he can prove you are an unfit mother, which having an affair will surely give him ammunition. So don't do that now matter what. However, the agreement for an open relationship will not be satisfactory proof. An agreement - mutual understanding - is what that was and is not, therefore, ammunition. For a better understanding, look up "condonation" in divorce proceedings............

"_Condonation - Condonation is someone's approval of another's activities. For example, a wife who does not object to her husband's adultery may be said to condone it. If the wife sues her husband for divorce, claiming he has committed adultery, the husband may argue as a defense that she condoned his behavior._"

..........So you see you really have nothing to worry about. You can leave him, obtain a divorce, receive spousal support, and receive child support. You will likely also receive the house in the divorce. Judges are not too keen on putting mother and children in the streets. If you want the house, then don't leave the property. You can file for divorce while still there with him. If he becomes angry and throws you out, your lawyer will have a judge demand that he immediately leave the premises so you can get back in the house. I can rattle on all day, but you have to talk with an attorney or two. Just stop allowing him to control you and scare you to make you too afraid to do anything.

This site on divorce information might be helpful and will tell you if your state is a no-fault state. At any rate, you have to know exactly what "fault" and "no-fault" means, and whether you would have to leave the home or not. So again, talk with an attorney.

On a side note, I'm just wondering how you owe 60k in student loans with no degree or marketability?


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## sailorgirl (Jun 9, 2010)

Susan2010 said:


> You need a sex therapist, one with a background in psychology (and really great if they worked in marriage counseling for a period). That person would be better equipped than a marriage counselor to dig deep and bring out your husband's real problem. The cost can be billed to your insurance as marriage counseling. Talk to the counselor about it.
> 
> Other than that, you are going to have to bite the bullet and leave. All his threats are just that - nothing but threats. He has successfully placed fear in you to make you too afraid to leave. You believe him, but he has no control whatsoever. He can say whatever wants. He can try whatever he wants. He and his mother both can go broke from paying lawyers. The outcome will be the same. You said you would talk to a lawyer, but you have to talk with 2 just for your own satisfaction that the outcome will be the same. How will you know? Because they will both tell you much the same thing. He might try to get custody but he won't. Based on his attempt, you both will be awarded joint (50/50) custody with you named as the custodial parent. You will be named custodial parent unless he can prove you are an unfit mother, which having an affair will surely give him ammunition. So don't do that now matter what. However, the agreement for an open relationship will not be satisfactory proof. An agreement - mutual understanding - is what that was and is not, therefore, ammunition. For a better understanding, look up "condonation" in divorce proceedings............
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info. 

As for the student loans, 40k was for a 4 year degree in elementary education. I have applied for the last year at every teaching position in a 60 mile radius--but those have been few and far between due to the economy. The recession has hit the teaching profession in my area very hard. 

It also seems that a teaching degree is pretty much worthless for anything but teaching. Even daycares do not want to hire teachers. As I have been told time and time again for daycare positions having a degree makes me over-qualified. And at daycares where I did not mention I had a degree, then they didn't hire me for "lack of experience" lol never mind that I raised two kids....

I also looked into other white collar jobs like office asst. and call center manager ect...but no go. Even restaurants don't want someone with a degree. As one person told me in an interview, they feel that people with degrees will leave the second they get a better job offer. So they do not want to take the chance of hiring one. 

The other 20k comes from emergency medical bills.


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## questions (May 7, 2010)

Hi,
It's really not my place to say this, but I sincerely hope that you do NOT cheat. I agree with your H that you should leave the marriage BEFORE you seek outside for your unmet needs. I'm sure that you have read many heart-wrenching posts about the pain and anguish that many of people here go through after they find about their spouse's affair. Most of the breakups after these affairs have been very acrimonious, and I am just concerned about for the children during this process. I learned that once the fear and anger part of the brain has been triggered, the rationale and reasoning part of the brain stops working. I really empathize with what you are going through, and I think that you can eventually have your needs met. It's just the process of getting there. 

You have a teaching degree. Please put all your energy and focus on securing a teaching post, even as a teacher's aid. I know that it's challenging now, but sooner or later, you'll be able to secure one once the economy improves. When you become more financially independent, you can then make an empowered decision, not just based on fear and frustration. 2Daughters, I believe, has shared a similar advice. 

Please save yourself, your H and your kids from the unnecessarily heart breaking and angry divorce. Even if the divorce is what you ultimately decide to do, you can do it in such a way that will be least harmful to everyone. 

My heart is breaking after reading so many stories of breakups from affairs here. You don't have to take this path, and you can still have your unmet needs met. It's a matter of timing.

I wish you the courage to make the decision that will be best for everyone involved here.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

sailorgirl said:


> I have applied for the last year at every teaching position in a 60 mile radius--but those have been few and far between due to the economy. The recession has hit the teaching profession in my area very hard.


Widen your net and be prepared for a drastic change in your living situation. A 60-mile radius is hardly enough. Try 500 miles.

Look, things are tough for all of us. I've got a degree and 25 years of experience and it has gotten me only one interview since February. I'm applying for work every single day.

Perservere.

And as for your intimacy deprivation goes, there are a lot of us dealing with that. Don't cheat. Calculate your next moves. do not rely on your husband's coldness and resources for the answer. Your answers lie elsewhere.


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

Sadly, I don't think it's about "leveling playing fields", or "catching someone". No, it's about making a fair request to your spouse and having them repeatedly deny you. It's about selfishness. It is patently unfair for your spouse to deny physical contact with you in the confines of marriage. 

It sucks that the spouse with the lowest sex drive typically gets to set the "sex thermostat" in a marriage. What sucks even more is that there are things that he is interested in like online gaming. 

In sorry, but what man is more concerned about leveling up his elf than making love to his wife? My love language is also touch, whereas my wife was really "only into sex" until we married. 

I wish I could tell you that you should just sit down and talk to him about it. As you know, it just doesn't work. He's content where the relationship is at so your hands are somewhat tied.

In my case, I made all the money, but I was just as trapped as you are. Try practicing in a community or continuing a relationship with your children when it becomes common knowledge you left your family for some "@ss". 

My heart goes out to you. All I can tell you is honor yourself and your family, even if he's not. I don't believe this reaches the threshold for divorce. I would change though the language you're using with your husband. I would start incorporating terms such as "neglect" rather than "need".

I just don't know what else to tell you other than I've felt the bitter pain of where you are now. It hurts, because to you it's not just sex, it's the physical aspect or expression of love. 

LIL


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

cody5 said:


> You only live once Salorgirl. No second chances. And you're not getting any younger.
> 
> You have my permission. Encouragement, even.


 You're an ass, cody.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Sounds like you are thinking of talking to a lawyer; good. Two of us separately used the word "bully," and that's what he has done--attempted to bully you. His suicide threats are manipulative yet must be taken at his word--insist he get checked at the local ER next time he says something like that--call the cops and tell them if h refuses to go to the ER, b/c that is likely where the cops will take him. If he is just attempting to manipulate you and you take him at his word, so he gets a visit from the cops and/or to the ER, he will not likely play that card again (and, if he really means it, he needs to be at the ER where they can determine if he needs further help--so YOU are not left trying to figure out what to do. Get the professionals to handle such serious matters--that is truly all you can do if he is honestly suicidal). 

Hang in there. Yes, a lot of people see sex w/their partner as a chore--and that should make the partner try to work it out. If you cannot, then you have every right to end the marriage. It's kind of funny, but back in the 1600s in Puritan New England, courts would award older women a full divorce (with the right of remarriage) if their husband couldn't or wouldn't have sex--since the women were beyond child-bearing age, it's clear the courts saw their right to sex as MORE than just about procreation. Even the traditional 18th centruy Anglican service discusses marriage as having 3 primary purposes: companionship, procreation, and curbing lust, so the older churches have acknowledged that sex is an important part of the marital relationship. 

Your h is not "wrong" if he does not want sex (for whatever reason), however; he is "wrong" for expecting you to live according to his dictates. He gets to make choices for himself and you get to make choices for yourself--the TWO of you must work together to make the best choices for your kids. 

Keep those kids at the center, but do not give up something so important to you--figure out a way to move forward while supporting their relationship with their dad, even if you cannot continue to be married to him. 

Do not cheat behind his back, though. That will just lead to a world of trouble. Be upfront (as advised by a lawyer) about what you want--if it is an amicable divorce, tell him that and buy the book "The Healthy Divorce" which he needs to read IF he really has the kids best interests at heart.

Ask him to imagine the kids figuring out--maybe not right away, but later in their teens or something--that he kept them from their mom b/c she wanted to have a better, fuller marriage, and yes, one that included a sex life. Ask him to imagine how the kids will feel about HIM when they learn that (because they will). It will be him they judge harshly, not you. Does he want to put them through that--losing you now only to learn to hate him for it later? 

Maybe if you make it clear that you will not be intimidated into playing by his rules anymore, he will change or at least try, and the two of you will move forward without the ugliness he threatens. Good luck.


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

*Your h is not "wrong" if he does not want sex (for whatever reason), however; he is "wrong" for expecting you to live according to his dictates. He gets to make choices for himself and you get to make choices for yourself--the TWO of you must work together to make the best choices for your kids. *

Sisters, you usually get to the right place, but the path you follow in getting there often confuses me. Generally speaking, it is wrong for a spouse to not honor their partner by sharing their body with them. There are obvious exceptions to this e.g. sickness, morally objectionable practices etc., but all in all I believe the principle is solid. 

As for what's best for the kids, that would obviously be a continuation of the union. This is a solvable problem. Jr. just needs to man up and figure out why online gaming is more important to him than the needs of the woman he's pledged to love.

My guess is her husband is unhappy and looking for some kind of escape from his life. I don't understand online gamers, but I've known enough of them that this can become an addiction. 
God, I hate that word, but it fits the best of anything we've got going on in our language.

I'd have him start by logging his hours that he spends "playing" for just a single week. I would also task you by logging the hours you spend "engaged" together as a productive and loving couple during the same week. I'd then have him contrast, compare, and choose. Often times a little awareness goes a long way in kicking these sorts of problems. 

LIL


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Your husband simply is not attracted to adult females. That much is clear. A therapist can't help with that. 

IF you could really convince him you are totally committed to the marriage/kids as long as you can get your physical needs met, he might go for that. You start about telling him how he is the perfect guy for you and the kids, you simply need a physical release but are NOT looking for a sexual prince charming. Just a sexual man who is ideally not really interested/available for anything serious. And depending on how tough your H wants to be in this negotiation, you could tell him if he lets you do this "very discreetly" you will never let on as to what the underlying problem is. But that if he forces a divorce over this, you will tell people why.

I do think this will gradually take your sanity and self esteem away over time if you don't find an outlet.. And since he created the situation (he knew what he was like BEFORE you wee married. 

Press the rescue buttons on him. 
"I am not willing to make you miserable by pressuring you to do things you just don't enjoy. I need you to help me by giving me some lattitude here so that lack of physical affection/sex does not continue to make me miserable. 

If need be you can throw in - if you force me to be near celibate I will ultimately have no choice but to leave. Please don't do that. 




sailorgirl said:


> I almost wish it was that. And he asked me to end the affair I was having, and put an end to the open relationship. It wasn't idle--at the time he said he thought about killing himself because I was with another man. That is what I don't understand. He can not stand the thought of me with another, but he doesn't want to be with me either. He even admits that it is selfish of him, but he also says he is just told old to change. He is only 41.
> 
> As for secretive--no. I can read e-mails if I want, and he has no problems with me checking his cell phone. When he says he is at work he is at work. I know because I did suspect that maybe he was seeing someone else or gay or something--but no I would drive by and his car would be there, I would drop in and he would be there. I check his history on the computer and there is nothing to arouse suspicion. Even with games like WOW and Everquest. I can and have stayed up all night with him watching him game. Most of the people he games with are male coworkers, and the few out of state females he games never said anything to him that would be considered inappropriate. The few times I have talked to them, they seem sad that I don't play with them.


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

*You simply need a physical release but are NOT looking for a sexual prince charming. Just a sexual man who is ideally not really interested/available for anything serious.*

MEM11363, you're better than that. It's better she leaves him than to compromise herself in this way. If she follows this course of advice she's gone from a spouse with a legitimate complaint to a Wh0re. I don't see how she wins playing that hand.

LIL


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## sailorgirl (Jun 9, 2010)

questions said:


> Hi,
> It's really not my place to say this, but I sincerely hope that you do NOT cheat. I agree with your H that you should leave the marriage BEFORE you seek outside for your unmet needs. I'm sure that you have read many heart-wrenching posts about the pain and anguish that many of people here go through after they find about their spouse's affair. Most of the breakups after these affairs have been very acrimonious, and I am just concerned about for the children during this process. I learned that once the fear and anger part of the brain has been triggered, the rationale and reasoning part of the brain stops working. I really empathize with what you are going through, and I think that you can eventually have your needs met. It's just the process of getting there.
> 
> You have a teaching degree. Please put all your energy and focus on securing a teaching post, even as a teacher's aid. I know that it's challenging now, but sooner or later, you'll be able to secure one once the economy improves. When you become more financially independent, you can then make an empowered decision, not just based on fear and frustration. 2Daughters, I believe, has shared a similar advice.
> ...



In someways I care about him and really do not want to hurt him--but at other times I have a really, really difficult time feeling sorry for him if he gets his feelings hurt if I have an affair. It's strange. It is like there are two sides to me. The good wife who wants to work things out, no matter the cost. And then the other side who just wants to walk away, and get my needs met. This part of me doesn't care if he is hurt. He's been hurting me day and night for 15 years. It's wearing away the "good wife" part of me. 

I do want to wait till the marriage is over before I find someone else--but when I think that it could take years.... I get so depressed, so unhappy. Then that other part of me comes out. Does that make any sense?


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## sailorgirl (Jun 9, 2010)

I've kept my search close to home mainly for my kids, and my hubby. He has made it clear that he does not want to leave this area, esp. with the job market the way it is now. There is a possibility that I could get a job in the state where my sister works (she is a teacher as well) But my husband has made it clear that he doubts he would join me if I go that far for a teaching job. He hates the state where she lives and all his family is down here. 

I can not fault him for this. I would be very upset if he decided to take a job in another state without us seriously discussing it. 

But now I think, maybe this is the answer--but then again the possibility of a job there not all the much better than it is here. 

I am also worried about custody rights with me up an moving the kids that far without him. How would custody work out in that situation, since he has made it very clear that he wants to keep as much custody as possible--even suing for complete custody if possible. 



michzz said:


> Widen your net and be prepared for a drastic change in your living situation. A 60-mile radius is hardly enough. Try 500 miles.
> 
> Look, things are tough for all of us. I've got a degree and 25 years of experience and it has gotten me only one interview since February. I'm applying for work every single day.
> 
> ...


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## sailorgirl (Jun 9, 2010)

lastinline said:


> Sadly, I don't think it's about "leveling playing fields", or "catching someone". No, it's about making a fair request to your spouse and having them repeatedly deny you. It's about selfishness. It is patently unfair for your spouse to deny physical contact with you in the confines of marriage.
> 
> It sucks that the spouse with the lowest sex drive typically gets to set the "sex thermostat" in a marriage. What sucks even more is that there are things that he is interested in like online gaming.
> 
> ...


I understand what you are saying about waiting to divorce before looking for another man. I agree, not only for everyone's sake, but also if I want to have a real, healthy relationship with another person, I need to get clear of this one first. An affair at this point would be just as disastrous (if not more so) than a "rebound" relationship. 

But I disagree with you when you say that this does not reach the threshold for divorce. I feel it does. He knows, and even admits that it is selfish of him. It is unfair and it is cold and cruel. I do not think it is fair of him to expect me to spend the rest of my life with little or no sexual contact. If the reason was an illness or other physical problem, then yes he would have a point. But when the reason is just that he feels he has more interesting things to do than to see to my sexual needs--to me th is is emotional abandonment.


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## sailorgirl (Jun 9, 2010)

To sister359 and lastinline:

He admits that he spends to much time on line. He admits that it bothers me. But he claims he is to old to change, that this is what makes him happy and it's unfair of me to want him to change his lifestyle. 

Logging his time on line and comparing it with time he spend with me is not going to change him. We've done this before. His idea of compromise is that he waits till the kids are in bed before he starts gaming. Meaning he doesn't start gaming till about 9pm at night. 

This way he can claim that he spends all this time with the family when he is not working. But that also means he doesn't want to come to bed till I'm well asleep. And as he has mentioned many times in therapy--he doesn't feel he can change his need for little or no sex. And he thinks it is unfair for me to expect him to change. 

The last time we went to therapy pretty much ended with him telling me that the ball is in my court. He would understand if I have an affair, but it will mean divorce. And while he doesn't blame me for divorcing him, he will fight it and try to for more than 50% custody of the kids. He feels that if I leave, that makes me a bad parent and therefore I should forfeit most of my rights as a parent. 

It's so hard to hear him say such things with his cold logic and he says it so clam and nice. As if he was talking to a stranger. It would be easier if he yelled and screamed. Sometimes I wish he would just haul off and hit me a good one--you know--just so that I would feel justified in leaving. He makes me feel so low when it comes to leaving him.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

LIL, I disagree. People make vows and commitments all the time that they are not capable of keeping--and it is a simple, human mistake. I do not believe in a God that would punish people for attempting to be better than they really are, or trying to do what they think is best and then failing in the attempt. If the h is not sexually attracted to adult women, then he cannot experience a joyful sexual relationship with his wife and he does not deserve to be punished or berated for being who he is. 

Mem, I agree with you about the h's sexuality. It really concerns me--and the way you put it is part of that concern. Is he gay, or attracted to children? Or is it really possible for someone to be completely asexual (I've known some very, very shy people who have been incapable of sexual relationships, but I do not think that is typical nor, in those cases, healthy b/c it caused them suffering until they learned to accept themselves for who they were). 

OP, your problem is very long-standing so it's perfectly reasonable to feel as you do. 

Please try not to focus on the unknowns--how long it would take to find someone new. You do have control over what you allow to occupy your mind. Turn that energy into action to improve your situation. Find an attorney, present h with the options (working together to improve your sex life, permanently, to a level you find satisfying), or separating amicably. He may put a 3rd option out there--ugly, angry divorce, the kind that really hurts kids (see the latest research). You cannot control his decisions. Even if he chooses angry and ugly, you can choose amicable, from your side. This does not mean giving him everything he wants. It means being respectful of his role as a father and recognizing that he and the kids benefit from a good relationship. It means NOT using time with the kids as a tool for negotiating money (on either side). Most states have a formula for this--did you say you used it?--and you do not control that. It may not be easy for you, but if you keep what is best for your kids in the center, you will make good choices.

And while it is "best for the kids" to be in a healthy, intact family, that is "ideal" and it is not on the table here if you h is not willing or able to have a healthy sexual relationship with you. Please try not to cast blame for that, nor allow him to do so--Just remind him that you are a miserably unhappy person living without that part of your life and you need the freedom, at least, to remedy that. Encourage him to get counseling to help him deal with the person he is if he is angry--he does not need to be angry at you for being unable to live his way, nor should he be angry or ashamed of himself (although he may need help to see that). If you do not blame him for his limitations/differences, maybe he will learn not to displace his anger on to you. It's worth a try. Being calm and fully aware that you both are who you are, imperfect humans whose individual needs are incompatible, may help you work through this in a way that helps him let go of anger, too. It's hard if he's blaming you, but try to see beyond that. And get counseling to help you stay centered--it will help you and your kids so much!

Edit: it is the "fighting for custody" that will hurt the kids--much more than anything else. Be sure he is aware of the research on that. 

And please remind him that his definition of a "bad mother" would not hold water in court. He is saying it makes you a "bad mother" b/c you want to have a healthy relationship w/your life partner--that has absolutely NOTHING to do with your mothering. It would be like saying he is a bad father for not having sex with you. That's not true-it makes him a poor husband, but it does not affect his fathering. Make it very clear to him that his attempt to take more than 50/50 custody will be construed by the court--in the absence of any evidence of abuse or neglect--as the "bad" parenting. The courts are VERY sensitive on this issue--any parent trying to dislodge another is highly suspect unless there is very solid evidence (police records, medical records) to establish that one parent is truly "unfit." 

When push comes to shove, he can bluster all he wants. Get a lawyer. Do not plan on moving--that would be unfair to the kids. If your earning opportunity is limited locally, your h will have to step up to the plate for a number of years. But THAT is what is best for the kids--sharing custody, 50/50, even if it means you cannot live where you prefer or he cannot have all the $$ he wants. If the only way you can give the kids what they deserve (equal access to both of you) is to accept these limitations, then that's the way it has to be. Make sure he "gets" that. He's living in La La land if he thinks he stands a snowball's chance in hell of winning more custody without an exceptionally good reason based in abuse or neglect!


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## sailorgirl (Jun 9, 2010)

sisters359 said:


> Mem, I agree with you about the h's sexuality. It really concerns me--and the way you put it is part of that concern. Is he gay, or attracted to children? Or is it really possible for someone to be completely asexual (I've known some very, very shy people who have been incapable of sexual relationships, but I do not think that is typical nor, in those cases, healthy b/c it caused them suffering until they learned to accept themselves for who they were).


I really feel he is simply asexual. I think it is entirely possible and not so terribly rare--out of the norm, yes; but not so out of the norm as to be almost unheard of. I think it effects women more than men. I have several women friends who really have no sexual desire. To them sex was a means of getting a husband and children. They have no desire for sex and simply have sex as a way of keeping their husbands happy. When the therapist brought up asexual even he feels this is the best description for himself. 

He is not very shy, but neither is he out going. But I honestly believe that he is not gay nor is he a pedophile. If I felt he was attracted to men or to children I would leave, tonight if I felt he was attracted to children. 

I have lived with this man for 15 years I think I can safely say whether or not he is gay. It would make a divorce a lot more easier for me. I would feel I was giving him up so that he could be honest with himself.


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