# She says that " No One Would Blame me if I left"



## howcouldshe (Jul 18, 2011)

She says (Cheating Wife) that " No One Would Blame me (Husband) if I left" 


So long and the short my W had a PA for several months earlier this year.

When I became aware of it she has stated several times that 
" no one would blame me if I left" She has also stated this when we argue that is I am not happy with how she is dealing with things or addressing them that " I should just leave".

I almost think she is testing me to see if I will leave to see if I am really commited to being with her to work things out.

I have already told her that I will not leave, I bought this house before we were married and she is the one that make the final step in creating this situation. We may not have had a perfect marriage but who has, but she is the one that sought the affair and made that grown up choice to have an A

And I think in her own mind she is still justifying that what she did was ok. or atleast that is the front she puts on.
I think she is also hurt that the guy she had the A with will no answer her calls or texts.........

So does anyone have any insight as to why she is so supportive of me leaving or that it is okay if I do leave.......


As always thanks for the great advise.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Is she saying "No one would blame you if you left" because that would imply that she acknowledges what she did was wrong and may be a sign of possible remorse. But if she is actually saying "No One Would Blame me if I left" then it means that people would view her having an affair because you were a horrible husband. She is deflecting blame to you which means that you have an unremorseful woman posing as your wife - a fraud.

So which is the true question she's asking?


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## DanF (Sep 27, 2010)

Tell her, "Well, since no one would blame you, the door is right over there. You have a choice, we work this out or you can hit the road."
Tell her no more contact (or attempted contact) as of right now and that you demand full transparency and access to all of her phone, email, FB, etc accounts.
if she won't agree, she her out.
Be tough, she's the one that messed up, not you.


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## RestlessInGeorgia (Dec 3, 2008)

Wow, that's all I can say. I can't believe she would say that to you and then expect you to forgive her and move on with the marriage. I would have helped her pack her things at that point and put them in her car. Kick her out. She doesn't seem to care about you or the marriage. Besides, kicking her out may be the jolt she needs to get out of the obvious fog she's in. Tell her that you found out the OM doesn't live with his fiancee anymore and that she can go stay with him, since the fiancee supposedly kicked him out. You hold all the cards here, start playing them. Kick her out and by all means don't support her financially. Basically, remove yourself from her life and let her see what her life is going to be like without you. I would also make her family and friends aware of what she's done, so that she doesn't make you look like the @$$ here. If she doesn't leave of her own free will, make sure you can be at the house when she is not there and change the locks, so she can't get back in. If she decides to be really nasty and start destroying property, call the cops. Best of luck my friend, you're going to need it.


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## howcouldshe (Jul 18, 2011)

RestlessInGeorgia said:


> Wow, that's all I can say. I can't believe she would say that to you and then expect you to forgive her and move on with the marriage. I would have helped her pack her things at that point and put them in her car. Kick her out. She doesn't seem to care about you or the marriage. Besides, kicking her out may be the jolt she needs to get out of the obvious fog she's in. Tell her that you found out the OM doesn't live with his fiancee anymore and that she can go stay with him, since the fiancee supposedly kicked him out. You hold all the cards here, start playing them. Kick her out and by all means don't support her financially. Basically, remove yourself from her life and let her see what her life is going to be like without you. I would also make her family and friends aware of what she's done, so that she doesn't make you look like the @$$ here. If she doesn't leave of her own free will, make sure you can be at the house when she is not there and change the locks, so she can't get back in. If she decides to be really nasty and start destroying property, call the cops. Best of luck my friend, you're going to need it.



Thanks everyone for the feedback,
So a few things that i forgot to add, from the best of my knowledge I cannot just "kick her out" of the house. But I could be wrong. At the present time lets just say I am exploring those options.....

One other issue is we have kids so I am trying to make this as easy as I can on them as well, they are young and I dont think they know much if anything about what is going on. The kids make this one especially messy.

Almost everyone on her side of the family knows what she did, and some of them have said they hope I am doing okay and what not but again, from what I see no one seems to have any real disapointment or upset in her actions, maybe they are not showing them and just trying to be supportive.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

What about taking a copy of the police report to child protective services to get feedback as to whether her actions in the matter constituted child endangerment? It couldn't hurt.


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## howcouldshe (Jul 18, 2011)

morituri said:


> What about taking a copy of the police report to child protective services to get feedback as to whether her actions in the matter constituted child endangerment? It couldn't hurt.



Which police report? once I change the locks and were to wreck the place?


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## RestlessInGeorgia (Dec 3, 2008)

You may be right about not being able to kick her out. I think the only way that can really happen is if you guys divorce. The best you can hope for is to make her life there as miserable as possible so that she decides to leave of her own free will, not by verbal or physical abuse though. Just be sure this is what you want to happen because once you start down that road, you've pretty much decided that divorce is the best option.

You can remove yourself from any joint accounts and open accounts in your name only. If you remove money from the joint account, make sure it is only half because she's entitled to half of the money in those accounts by law. You can let her live primarily off of her own means instead of both of your means. I would cut off anything in the house that is not essential to living, such as cable, internet, her cell phone if your name is on it. Cancel any joint credit accounts. If you can, make sure you buy food as you need it. If you can get away with it, buy the kids meals on a day-to-day basis. If she takes care of them most of the day, then the food option may not be feasible. As far as she's concerned, don't act as if you care about her at all, even if you love her with all your heart. Implement the 180 that is highly recommended on this site. If you search you can find it. I'm not saying do any or all of these things. They are just ideas for you to think about. She's not interested in making life any better for you, you shouldn't be making life easy for her. The one thing I will say, is that you should never use the children against her in any way. I'm not saying that you would, just throwing that out there for you. Again, best of luck. It p!sses me off to see all these people on this site that suffer from cheating spouses, especially those that show no remorse.


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## RestlessInGeorgia (Dec 3, 2008)

As far as her family is concerned, it's great they are aware of her actions. That's really the best you can hope for. The fact that some of them have reached out to you and are concerned about you is great. In the end, they are her blood and are probably not going to write her off for her stupid decisions. Would you if you ever found out one of your kids cheated on their spouse?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

howcouldshe said:


> When I became aware of it she has stated several times that
> " no one would blame me if I left" She has also stated this when we argue that is I am not happy with how she is dealing with things or addressing them that " I should just leave".
> 
> I almost think she is testing me to see if I will leave to see if I am really commited to being with her to work things out.
> ...


I almost think she is says/does this as a way to be passive-agressive. That way if you leave, she can think "Well he made the choice on his own to bail." Or she says these things as a form of self-loathing or to try to get pity/empathy from you. See, if she can make you feel bad for her, she won't think she's such a bad person, or rather, she didn't do such a bad thing. She is probably very humiliated/embarassed after you found out and even more hurt because you talked to OM and exposed your knowledge of the affair to him. And to add insult to injury, now he's not calling her so she feels, "Great, now my marriage is meessed up and this other guy only used me for sex." So she feels alone. 

Don't feed into it. Hold onto whatever you feel you must do it and do it. Do not waffle on your boundaries with her.

*Wait, I just re-read your thread title. If she meant nobody would blame HER (me) if she left, then yeah she's talking wayward speak. None of what they say make sense. Again, it's self-loathing in order to get you to pity here so she won't feel as bad. Or she's saying it in the sense that you're so mean for finally standing your ground to her and telling her the affair isn't going to happen or you are out/gone/finito. That is very childish response on her end, if it's the latter. 

Do NOT NOT NOT move out of your home. No way.


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## howcouldshe (Jul 18, 2011)

*Re: She says (Cheating Wife) that " No One Would Blame me (Husband) if I left"*



Jellybeans said:


> I almost think she is says/does this as a way to be passive-agressive. That way if you leave, she can think "Well he made the choice on his own to bail." Or she says these things as a form of self-loathing or to try to get pity/empathy from you. See, if she can make you feel bad for her, she won't think she's such a bad person, or rather, she didn't do such a bad thing. She is probably very humiliated/embarassed after you found out and even more hurt because you talked to OM and exposed your knowledge of the affair to him. And to add insult to injury, now he's not calling her so she feels, "Great, now my marriage is meessed up and this other guy only used me for sex." So she feels alone.
> 
> Don't feed into it. Hold onto whatever you feel you must do it and do it. Do not waffle on your boundaries with her.
> 
> ...


Jellybeans you seem to be on the money with all your responses.

Maybe I should clarify that title she tells me the Husband that no one being her and her family would blame me if I left he due to the PA. And as you have said I think that is almost self medication to make herself feel better, I have to think that someone is in a dark place to cheat and then when they get caught and realize the damage that they have caused to themselves, their family and what not. If I was in her shoes I would be looking around and seeing my walls come crashing down as she stands to loose her husband, house, kids and a pretty decent way of life.....but as she says we had a bad marriage........

She keeps telling me she cant trust men and part of it has to be cause as you said he made himself out to be a friend and now he will have no contact with her and I am sure he is afraid that I may talk to his fiance and blow his cover as I have already talked to him and he has denied everything......


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

howcouldshe said:


> Jellybeans you seem to be on the money with all your responses


Why, thank you ::bows head and curtsies::



howcouldshe said:


> She keeps telling me she cant trust men and part of it has to be cause as you said he made himself out to be a friend and now he will have no contact with her and I am sure he is afraid that I may talk to his fiance and blow his cover as I have already talked to him and he has denied everything......


The irony here is that she's saying she can't trust men is she betrayed your trust and she CAN trust you. If she is saying she can't trust you (for fear you'll spill to OM's fiance - OMF), two things are happening:

1. She's saying this to get you to pity her enough/feel bad enough to the point you will NOT say anything to the OMF (it's reverse psychology and another way to protect herself from OMF fiancee finding out and it possibly being the death knell to her affair)

or

2. She is so hurt by OM ending contact with her that she realizes now the damage it's caused in her life, marriage, relationship with you (kids, if any) and again, if she feels she cannot trust him, the affair was in vain--it signifies that he only usd her for a good time til he got called out and he bailed--that he never had true feelings for her and the relationship was superficial.


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## RestlessInGeorgia (Dec 3, 2008)

I apologize. I agree with Jellybeans. From the title, it seemed like she was telling you no one would blame her for leaving you. Now that that has been cleared up, she seems to be doing exactly what JB says. She just seems to be looking for pity from you and still seems to be in the fog for getting aggravated at you for confronting OM and then worrying about his feelings and breaking the NC. 

Stand your ground and don't back down. Still follow through with telling his fiancee what he's done so she knows who she is/was getting married to. She doesn't deserve to be cheated on either and though it may hurt now, she will be better off in the end severing all ties with this fool.

Do what you feel you need to do. My comments were based on her telling you that no one would blame her for leaving you.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What are you wanting? A wife who owns what she did and takes steps to make up for it? Or are you just willing to accept her no matter what? We need to know your ultimate feelings.


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## howcouldshe (Jul 18, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Why, thank you ::bows head and curtsies::
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have asked here how she can make the blanket statement that she does not trust men when I have never cheated on her and always been there for her, when I heard about the affair I stayed calmed and told her we would try and work through it, 

She claims her big trust issues are with the guy she had an affair with because when his cousion sexually assaulted her, the guy she had the affair with never called to see if she was okay. Do you really think he would call, it was his cousin after all, family sticks together before anything else, some woman that the one was playing around with is going to take a back seat. come on.... 

I have told her that I have nothing to loose by talking to the OM or the OMF, I have no dirty laundry only they do.

I think that she had some to the stark realization of the damage that she has done, she is still playing the cold face card as I dont think she wants me to see here as weak or venerable, considering that is probally how she feels.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Oh, wait. You're the guy whose wife had the affair and then the other guy 'assaulted' her?

Please stick to one thread so we can know the whole story and give you valid advice.


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## howcouldshe (Jul 18, 2011)

turnera said:


> What are you wanting? A wife who owns what she did and takes steps to make up for it? Or are you just willing to accept her no matter what? We need to know your ultimate feelings.


This is the easiest questions to answer.

A wife who owns what she did and takes steps to make up for it?

Is she cannot own what she did there is no way to even attempt to work past. As she will continue to blame me, she has to own what she did. As I have said we may have had issues in our marriage that need to be sorted out but she is the one that had the A, she needs to own up to her actions.

I think me wanting her to be a wife who owns what she did and takes steps to make up for it is not asking for to much.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

howcouldshe said:


> She claims her big trust issues are with the guy she had an affair with because when his cousion sexually assaulted her, the guy she had the affair with never called to see if she was okay.


She's still in the affair fog. The very fact she is voicing this concern to you, her woe-is-me attitude says to me that she still isn't owning or even realizes how wrong the affair was. Her telling you that is audacious, IMO and shows a lack of respect (again) for your marriage and for you as her husband. 



howcouldshe said:


> I have told her that I have nothing to loose by talking to the OM or the OMF, I have no dirty laundry only they do.


Please stop doing this. You continue to tell her you will tell the OM and the OMF which is gigiving her and the OM *PLENTY* of time to get their story straight. STOP bringing it up to her. At all. Don't talk about it. That is for you to do without warning. The same way they had an affair without warning to you. The worst possible thing you could do is give her and/or the OM any inkling that you are going to do this. 



howcouldshe said:


> I think that she had some to the stark realization of the damage that she has done


I am sorry to say I don't agree. As long as she keeps minimizing your feels by talking about how awful she feels the OM hasn't checked up and her and how little she feels now that the OM won't return her calls and she is breaking No Contact with him and telling you not to tell the OMF, she hasn't come to the realization about the gravity of what she has done regarding her affair.


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

She says that "No one would blame..." because she wants you to throw your hands up, say that you give up and leave. Then she can scream "Willful Abandonment of Family" in front of a judge.

In short, she's trying desperately to make you the bad guy, so that she can play the helpless, innocent victim.

Oh, and as far as the house: you bought it before the marriage, therefore it is not assets acquired during the marriage, therefore, she may very well have no legal claim to it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

That's right. If you owned the house before you married, she won't even get monetary damages against it.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey HCS---as to the house---if you owned it prior to the mge---and never put her on the title deed---it is your seperate property, it is not part of the mge---AND YOU CAN KICK HER OUT

As to her stating---I don't blame you if you left----this comes from her now feeling big time sorry for herself, and playing the drama queen

Bottom line here is she knows that she will never be able to find a guy who can take your place---look who she had sex with---scumbags---if you D. her---that is what her future will look like---sexual encounters with bums, she will wake up in the morning, not even knowing the name of the scum she slept with

She knows the pickings out there are next to nothing, and that's in a big city---if you are in a small town---THERE IS NOTHING OUT THERE FOR HER at all----you have all the aces---figure out how you wanna play this, and play it, but remember this is your game, by your rules, if she don't like it---she needs to go---she can go back to her scum lovers, and bums---for that is all she will get---------


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## sexuallyfustrated (Mar 24, 2011)

I take it as her saying No one would blame him for leaving her cheating a** if he left her. My husbands version of this is. Why do you even deal with this. You should just leave me. For me that means he wants to use me to end the marriage. So he doesn't look bad to everyone. Making him free to do as he wishes. Could be the same thing. Her way of using you to end it so she could be free for the OM. Either way it's disrespectful and cowardly in my opinion.


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## sexuallyfustrated (Mar 24, 2011)

F-102 said:


> She says that "No one would blame..." because she wants you to throw your hands up, say that you give up and leave. Then she can scream "Willful Abandonment of Family" in front of a judge.
> 
> In short, she's trying desperately to make you the bad guy, so that she can play the helpless, innocent victim.
> 
> Oh, and as far as the house: you bought it before the marriage, therefore it is not assets acquired during the marriage, therefore, she may very well have no legal claim to it.


EXACTLY!!! I was thinking aout that. You ahd it when you married. If it's soley in your name (assuming you didn't add her on when you married) I don't see where she is entilted to jack.....kick her out.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

I believe I told you on you other thread or in the pm I sent you - it takes a long time for ownership of what she did and even longer for her to forgive herself and start to work on her. SHE can't face herself in the mirror. She can't face the guilt and shame of what she has done. Telling you to leave her is the easy way out for her. She doesn't have to face you and the pain she has caused. It's the flight side of fight or flight. As fars as the rejection she feels from the other man - she is mourning the loss. You can hate it and loath it but it is her feelings and the truth and she will need time to get over it. She got hurt by the OM. Her fantasy world crashed. GIVE HER TIME and don't fall into the suggestion you split. If you still love her, it can work out but it takes both of you. You MUST back off. It sounds back a$$ wards, but if you tell her you feel bad she is pain over her loss you will be very surprised at her reaction. Add that you don't like what she did but you don't like the pain she is going through.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

so its OK, for her to lean on howcouldshe---to help her out of the mess she CHOSE to make of everyone's lives-----just out of curiosity---what has she been doing to help howcouldshe----Howcouldshe is the one who did nothing wrong, who has had his soul ripped apart, and so his wife is having a hard time coping---well you know what that goes with the territory---she chose her path, now she gets to follow it to its end

No she is not a bad person---she is just a selfish person, who thinks only of herself, and does not care about the consequences of her actions

Howcouldshe, will live with what she has done possibly the rest of his life----thru her he may never want to trust a member of the opposite sex, and you want him to help her with her problems----Yes this may be a heartless attitude, but, once again BUT FOR, what she did, we would not be here discussing this would we!!!!!!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

If we all threw away every person who ever cheated on us, if we never gave anyone a second chance, the entire world would become partner-less. And if you think YOU could never succumb to the same thing, you are kidding yourself. I'm reading a book about such a man, who encountered a woman who intentionally broke down his defenses, one meeting at a time, until he ended up in bed with her. She planned it, and it worked. It's not always about being 'good' or 'bad.'


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Come back, OP.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

With rare exceptions - like 8yearscheating, RWB and the_guy - a faithful husband who chooses to remain married to his unfaithful wife, usually end up worse for doing so. If statistics are to be believed, only 35% of the marriages impacted by infidelity, actually survive. I think it's safe to say that howcouldshe's marriage does not belong in that 35%.

The issue here is that you have an unfaithful wife who is far from being remorseful and that is only fueling the desire of her betrayed husband to divorce her. Whatever love he had for her, she has practically killed it by her affair and foggy attitude. If I was a betting man, I would give odds against this marriage surviving.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Idk what the stats are for those marriage that go on/are better after infidelity but many do stay together. 



morituri said:


> The issue here is that you have an unfaithful wife who is far from being remorseful and that is only fueling the desire of her betrayed husband to divorce her.


You make a great point. I do not think any marriage has a good change of being restore/being happy again if the disloyal does not own what they did, accept the pain they have caused, goes no contact with the affair partner and really truly commits 100% to the betrayed. Oh and apologizes sincerely and truly empathizes with the pain they have caused.


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## howcouldshe (Jul 18, 2011)

morituri said:


> With rare exceptions - like 8yearscheating, RWB and the_guy - a faithful husband who chooses to remain married to his unfaithful wife, usually end up worse for doing so. If statistics are to be believed, only 35% of the marriages impacted by infidelity, actually survive. I think it's safe to say that howcouldshe's marriage does not belong in that 35%.
> 
> The issue here is that you have an unfaithful wife who is far from being remorseful and that is only fueling the desire of her betrayed husband to divorce her. Whatever love he had for her, she has practically killed it by her affair and foggy attitude. If I was a betting man, I would give odds against this marriage surviving.


So you say 35% of the time they work out, so that is 1 out of 3, dont you think at the very least I owe it to myself and my family to EXPLORE the option of making it work and seeing if we can peel back those layers together to make it work? If I set a time limit that if things are not better in a year what do I have to loose? I am of the mindset that I have the potential to gain a great relationship back with my wife. I know alot of you are going to blast me and say grow a set and you can do better and what not and you are entitlted to you opinion, but right now there is alot of uglyness and if we go out seperate ways there will be alot of uglyness, the only thing that I see is that I am potentially extending how long the uglyness continues.

Part of me thinks that she is in the fog or partial fog due to the hurt that she may have on several layers, I am hoping that it takes time for the fog to clear and that she will then understand, taking baby steps here.

It may never work out but again what do I have to loose from trying? A year of trying and then a year to settle a divorce vs start a divorce right now.

I am curious how many people divorce and then regret it later.

I know it sounds like I am wavering or backing up but I need to make sure that I am making the best decision for ME and my KIDS and I dont want to have any regrets on the choice I make.

Thoughts


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## howcouldshe (Jul 18, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Idk what the stats are for those marriage that go on/are better after infidelity but many do stay together.
> 
> 
> 
> You make a great point. I do not think any marriage has a good change of being restore/being happy again if the disloyal does not own what they did, accept the pain they have caused, goes no contact with the affair partner and really truly commits 100% to the betrayed. Oh and apologizes sincerely and truly empathizes with the pain they have caused.


Im back Jellybeans,
Several days ago when I started posting she was not remorseful at all and did not want to take ownership. I can tell you that she has started to break that shell and show some remorse and appology. I dont need it all in one day I just need to see that she is sorry and is understanding my hurt and is working on showing me. I am trying to go with my gut right now in life. Right now my gut is telling me to try and see if she comes out of the shell. She has also agreed to go and see a MC with me and I am hopeful that will help.................


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

howcouldshe said:


> So you say 35% of the time they work out, so that is 1 out of 3, dont you think at the very least I owe it to myself and my family to EXPLORE the option of making it work and seeing if we can peel back those layers together to make it work? If I set a time limit that if things are not better in a year what do I have to loose? I am of the mindset that I have the potential to gain a great relationship back with my wife. I know alot of you are going to blast me and say grow a set and you can do better and what not and you are entitlted to you opinion, but right now there is alot of uglyness and if we go out seperate ways there will be alot of uglyness, the only thing that I see is that I am potentially extending how long the uglyness continues.
> 
> Part of me thinks that she is in the fog or partial fog due to the hurt that she may have on several layers, I am hoping that it takes time for the fog to clear and that she will then understand, taking baby steps here.
> 
> ...


Of course. It is your life and you must live it as you see fit. But please don't shoot some of us who give you the tough love approach. As much as we would like for this to be resolved with the least amount of pain to you and your family, the last thing we want to do is give you false hope. Speaking of tough love, I highly recommend you read Dr James Dobson's book 'Love Must Be Tough', it is an excellent book for betrayed spouses.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Howcouldshe--only you can decide whether it is best to stay or not. 

Some of us do divorce, some don't. Some can work through the infidelity (not past it, cause hello, infidelity scars and you never forget it) and some simply do not/ cannot/ will not.

Some folks do regret their divorce, some don't. 

Thing is, we are all on a different life path and what is good for some may not be for others. 

It's a mixed bag. 

I find any couple who can stay together after infidelity and make it, truly make it and be happy, admirable.

Oh and I agree with Mori--get that book. It's awesome.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

morituri said:


> With rare exceptions - like 8yearscheating, RWB and the_guy - a faithful husband who chooses to remain married to his unfaithful wife, usually end up worse for doing so. If statistics are to be believed, only 35% of the marriages impacted by infidelity, actually survive. I think it's safe to say that howcouldshe's marriage does not belong in that 35%.


Perhaps. But, barring mental illness, ALL of them could have been bolstered by both partners engaging in a lot of therapy and learning about how marriages work. Most people never do that. Most people never come to places like this to get educated. But they COULD.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

howcouldshe said:


> Im back Jellybeans,
> Several days ago when I started posting she was not remorseful at all and did not want to take ownership. I can tell you that she has started to break that shell and show some remorse and appology. I dont need it all in one day I just need to see that she is sorry and is understanding my hurt and is working on showing me. I am trying to go with my gut right now in life. Right now my gut is telling me to try and see if she comes out of the shell. She has also agreed to go and see a MC with me and I am hopeful that will help.................


 That's good! Has she given you the passwords to her phone and her computer? That is a MUST. Does she tell you where she goes? Does she spend time with you doing things like when you were dating? You have to do this, to build your relationship back up. Does she answer all your questions? Has she written a No Contact letter to the first guy that you send yourself? These are necessary for you to make it.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

turnera said:


> Perhaps. But, barring mental illness, ALL of them could have been bolstered by both partners engaging in a lot of therapy and learning about how marriages work. Most people never do that. Most people never come to places like this to get educated. But they COULD.


Indeed but practically nobody is prepared for marriage and the challenges that come with it. Is is extremely rare to find individuals who have been taught how to be good spouses and know how to choose good spouses. For the most part, we treat marriage as a lab experiment that - most often than not - explodes in our faces. And it will continue to be so until most societies start teaching the importance of being and choosing a good spouse.

As a very old song starts with a shout *"Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends..."*


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Well, isn't that why we have books, and talk shows, and professional counselors?

I do wish high schoolers were required to take a class in living life.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

IMHO---most everyone has lost site of what howcouldshee's wife is all about------

This is a woman, that had an A., with a druggie, had sex in her own home with the druggie's cousin, then tried to make it look like he committed battery on her, and did the latter with her own children in her own home

Is this the kind of woman you want for a wife, and mother, is this the kind of woman you wanna spend the rest of your life with

She invites no account bums into her home , with her children present to spend the night drinking with her, with no H., around for protection

Many of you may not like it---but IMHO, she should have been sent on her way long ago---she doesn't have the integrity, or moral fibre to be a decent mother, much less a wife----but then again this is about howcouldshee's life, so its his decision, as to what kind of person he has taking care of his kids.!!!!!!!


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

Agree with jnj...she endangered the children, and then has the nerve to protect the two OMs. Simply put-she should not be trusted, but it's up to the OP as to whether or not he wants to stay with her.

And morituri, 2 things:

Love your avatars, and yet another great music shout-out. ELP rules!


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

I guess what I'm trying to say is: right now, you're asking "How Could She?"

I'm just hoping that if you stay with her, and she f***s up again, and your kids get harmed, they'll be looking at you and asking "How Could You?"


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Normally I agree with you guys...except...the one time I'm willing to give a pass is when someone reaches remorse. Is it real or fake? We don't know. But in all the years I've advised, I've almost never seen a wayward reach the remorse part and be faking it.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

this wife hasn't rid herself of her lover----she exercises by walking and running, and where does she go everyday---she goes by her lovers residence, next-- she tries very hard to convince her H., NOT to tell the fiancee of her lover what is going on---SHE DOESN'T WANNA SEE HER LOVER HURT,---the topper is when her H., confronted her lover in the market---later that evening she called her lover and APOLOGIZED for what her H. did-------it seems as if her H., and family, are still a long way back in 2nd place------STILL-------so where is the remorse---remorse would have NC, fully in sway----she is in contact all the time

What may make this an even more terrible situation is---when a spouse has an A.---many times the innocent family have the A. partner brought into their lives whether they like it or not----well her lover in this case is a druggie, and her 2nd lover is his cousin who has no problem, going to her home, and with her children present---who as she claims RAPED HER-----druggies, have ties to the criminal world---so what has she brought into her innocent families life, a druggie, maybe a rapist, who both maybe have connections with criminals----some will say this is outrageous, but this kind of stuff has happened before---and you all know it------this is a terrible situation, and this is one mge., that needs to end, this woman needs to be out of the lives of her innocent H., and even more so for her innocent children, whom she cares very little about!!!!!!!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

He said this yesterday:
Several days ago when I started posting she was not remorseful at all and did not want to take ownership. I can tell you that she has started to break that shell and show some remorse and appology. I dont need it all in one day I just need to see that she is sorry and is understanding my hurt and is working on showing me. I am trying to go with my gut right now in life. Right now my gut is telling me to try and see if she comes out of the shell. She has also agreed to go and see a MC with me and I am hopeful that will help................. 
At this point, he can set up very high standards, including writing a No Contact letter, handing over all passwords, not going anywhere he doesn't want her to go, going to MC (which she has agreed to )...all the standard things we always tell BSs to insist on. Time will tell.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

*She says that " No One Would Blame me if I left"*

But of course SHE would. You know that, don't you?


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

turnera said:


> At this point, he can set up very high standards, including writing a No Contact letter, handing over all passwords, not going anywhere he doesn't want her to go, going to MC (which she has agreed to )...all the standard things we always tell BSs to insist on. Time will tell.


I don't think she's at that point of commitment.


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## howcouldshe (Jul 18, 2011)

morituri said:


> I don't think she's at that point of commitment.


I agree with you on this one, she was pissed when I was looking at her phone several days ago, she feels it is an invasion of privacy.....I have tried to explain to her that right now to regain my trust she has no right to privacy, this is not taking $100 from the vacation fund and not telling me, this is cheating on your husband, you loose your privilage to privacy. I have tried to explain this and she does not seem to get it but we will see once we hit the MC is she starts to get it and understand. If she does not I can assure you that will be one more nail in the coffin of being done.



Runs like Dog said:


> *She says that " No One Would Blame me if I left"*
> 
> But of course SHE would. You know that, don't you?


You are right that is a coping mech for her, if I left I am sure that she would blame me and make me out the be the bad guy......


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

jnj express said:


> this wife hasn't rid herself of her lover----she exercises by walking and running, and where does she go everyday---she goes by her lovers residence, next-- she tries very hard to convince her H., NOT to tell the fiancee of her lover what is going on---SHE DOESN'T WANNA SEE HER LOVER HURT,---the topper is when her H., confronted her lover in the market---later that evening she called her lover and APOLOGIZED for what her H. did-------it seems as if her H., and family, are still a long way back in 2nd place------STILL-------so where is the remorse---remorse would have NC, fully in sway----she is in contact all the time
> 
> What may make this an even more terrible situation is---when a spouse has an A.---many times the innocent family have the A. partner brought into their lives whether they like it or not----well her lover in this case is a druggie, and her 2nd lover is his cousin who has no problem, going to her home, and with her children present---who as she claims RAPED HER-----druggies, have ties to the criminal world---so what has she brought into her innocent families life, a druggie, maybe a rapist, who both maybe have connections with criminals----some will say this is outrageous, but this kind of stuff has happened before---and you all know it------this is a terrible situation, and this is one mge., that needs to end, this woman needs to be out of the lives of her innocent H., and even more so for her innocent children, whom she cares very little about!!!!!!!



JNJ, have you ever heard the statement - a statement containing facts is not necessarily a factual statement? In other words when you throw a couple of facts in with a bunch of conjecture and made up BS (not betrayed spouse) you are not telling the truth. Your statement above does not reflect what he said. You are being inflamatory. I wonder how he feels about you trashing his wife - who he is still married to and still wants to R with?


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

8yearscheating said:


> JNJ, have you ever heard the statement - a statement containing facts is not necessarily a factual statement? In other words when you throw a couple of facts in with a bunch of conjecture and made up BS (not betrayed spouse) you are not telling the truth. Your statement above does not reflect what he said. You are being inflamatory. I wonder how he feels about you trashing his wife - who he is still married to and still wants to R with?


From what I have observed, you have a tendency to be offended on behalf of others. No one has appointed you as their personal guardian. You need to get off your high horse.

To the OP:

Be wary of your WW's actions. We've read so many, many stories of WS's crying and pretending to be remorseful, only to find out later on that it was all an act, or that it was only temporary. Here's a chart by a poster named Fighting2Survive in another forum, that you should consider before even thinking about giving her a shot at R. Remember, R is YOUR choice, not hers.


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## howcouldshe (Jul 18, 2011)

jnj express said:


> this wife hasn't rid herself of her lover----she exercises by walking and running, and where does she go everyday---she goes by her lovers residence, next-- she tries very hard to convince her H., NOT to tell the fiancee of her lover what is going on---SHE DOESN'T WANNA SEE HER LOVER HURT,---the topper is when her H., confronted her lover in the market---later that evening she called her lover and APOLOGIZED for what her H. did-------it seems as if her H., and family, are still a long way back in 2nd place------STILL-------so where is the remorse---remorse would have NC, fully in sway----she is in contact all the timejnj 1st off I appreciate your comments on the fourm but I want to make it clear that some of the comments you listed above are not known facts and are clearly your own interpritions, I can agree that I do have doubts at sometimes especially with her actions. I am also trying to see if we can make it work with my W, she has a ton of hurt right now in her own mind and I dont think that she can clear the fog or knows which was is up. I agree alot of what she did as hind sight is really dumb that she did them and I belive that she is thinking the same thing right now but it will take time for me and her to explore that. By no mean and I defending her or her actions, I am just trying to get other views and sort though what I know.
> 
> What may make this an even more terrible situation is---when a spouse has an A.---many times the innocent family have the A. partner brought into their lives whether they like it or not----well her lover in this case is a druggie, and her 2nd lover is his cousin who has no problem, going to her home, and with her children present---who as she claims RAPED HER-----druggies, have ties to the criminal world---so what has she brought into her innocent families life, a druggie, maybe a rapist, who both maybe have connections with criminals----some will say this is outrageous, but this kind of stuff has happened before---and you all know it------this is a terrible situation, and this is one mge., that needs to end, this woman needs to be out of the lives of her innocent H., and even more so for her innocent children, whom she cares very little about!!!!!!!


There are some valid points to the comments above but again you have to look at the situation and see what if any reason these men have to come back to my house, the one if part of an ongoing rape investigation and the other one I think realizes that what he did is wrong and he shows this by not picking up the 2 times my wife attempted to contact him. I personally think that he is fearful that I may tell his fiance even though he lied to my face and said nothing happened even though I know otherwise. I agree about the safety of me and my kids and that was put out on a limb. I can tell you that is one of my major issues with all of this as my family and their safety is paramount to me......I have to hope that you can see how I and trying to work through this and while still guarded I am trying to see if she can show me that she does have remose and admits to these mistakes, again I wont wait for ever but I am trying too see what I can learn from her. Your words may be true and i will only be able to confrim that in time but some of them are very harsh.






8yearscheating said:


> JNJ, have you ever heard the statement - a statement containing facts is not necessarily a factual statement? In other words when you throw a couple of facts in with a bunch of conjecture and made up BS (not betrayed spouse) you are not telling the truth. Your statement above does not reflect what he said. You are being inflamatory. I wonder how he feels about you trashing his wife - who he is still married to and still wants to R with?


8yearscheating I appreciate your comments in my thread, I like that statement that you said, it is a good one that i will ad to my list. Some of the statments that are made here do take 1 or 2 facts and then add their own thoughts or what they belive are facts. I appreciate you brining this up and pointing it out.

I also appreciate the support on bashing or trashing of a spouse, you are right I have a great deal of anger and questions but at the time I am trying to make it work and I do still love her and care about her even though I have a great deak if anger right now but she is still my wife and the fact that I have not left her yes as I dont have all answers should speak very loudly, I can assure you and the board that I am strong enough that once I find out what I need to know I will not hesistate to make the right call. Thanks again for your comment


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## howcouldshe (Jul 18, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> From what I have observed, you have a tendency to be offended on behalf of others. No one has appointed you as their personal guardian. You need to get off your high horse.
> 
> it may not have been intended this way but lets not bash each here, we can all have an opinion and I took it that 8yearscheating was just trying to point out that I might be offended by the harshness of someones post, I was not offended by what the one person said and I also not offended by what 8years had to say as well, we also have opinions, some are strong others are weak, I have to sort them and validate the replys
> 
> ...


I can tell you I am very aware and alert of her actions, as I have said before I have set some goals of my own as far as how long I will allow her to explore peeling back the layers to get the truth out, I think at the time due to the assualt being coupled with this she may have some added fear of sharing, not making excuses for her just trying to look at all the facts. I do realize and appreciate the fact that the chart you posted does tend to be the standard to measure by and I have been using that as a tool. At the present time I am hopefully that in the coming weeks we will be able to break the wall down and get to being in compliance with that chart but I am also aware that it may not happen.........
Thanks again for your post and thoughs


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

howcouldshe said:


> I can tell you I am very aware and alert of her actions, as I have said before I have set some goals of my own as far as how long I will allow her to explore peeling back the layers to get the truth out, I think at the time due to the assualt being coupled with this she may have some added fear of sharing, not making excuses for her just trying to look at all the facts. I do realize and appreciate the fact that the chart you posted does tend to be the standard to measure by and I have been using that as a tool. At the present time I am hopefully that in the coming weeks we will be able to break the wall down and get to being in compliance with that chart but I am also aware that it may not happen.........
> Thanks again for your post and thoughs


So why is this criminal not behind bars or serving time if he sexually assaulted your wife? Or was it truly a sexual assault. Let me tell you, when I was a cop still working the streets, do you know how many sexual assault calls I have been to where a so-called victim says she was sexually assaulted when that was not the case at all? Sometimes women will say they were assaulted because they felt guilty about their spouse or boyfriend finding out they screwed someone else. I'm not saying this is the case with your WW, but she should have at the minimum went to the emergency room and they would have done a rape kit.


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

Runs like Dog said:


> *She says that " No One Would Blame me if I left"*
> 
> But of course SHE would. You know that, don't you?


Agree wholeheartedly. She is telling you what you want to hear, but she may be thinking that if you divorce, she's going to get the house, kids, car, etc.

But when she doesn't, and she loses custody of the kids and realizes that she has no claim to the house, watch her change her tune. She will be telling anyone who isn't deaf that it was all YOUR fault, that YOU were the unreasonable jerk who wouldn't give her another chance, YOU were the controlling a**hole that screwed her over...

And if you do go to MC, make sure that the counselor is hearing BOTH sides of this, and does not turn into your W's personal divorce planner.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

She did do a rape kit.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

turnera said:


> She did do a rape kit.


Yes but



howcouldshe said:


> Yes she did offer up the rape kit, but here is the real issue it occurred on a Wed night into Thur am and she did not go to the hospital until Sat night, any fluid type evidence is typically gone by then and as for internal damage or tearing the nurse said it was the same as seen in rough sex..........


A rape is a very traumatic ordeal and for her to wait 3 days was very poor judgement on her part. The evidence was gone by then so it basically allowed the cousin of the OM to get away with rape.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

And what would you folks propose he do to change that? Obviously there is nothing he can do unless she changes her story. Does this one fall under the idea - accept the things he cannot change?


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## howcouldshe (Jul 18, 2011)

F-102 said:


> Agree wholeheartedly. She is telling you what you want to hear, but she may be thinking that if you divorce, she's going to get the house, kids, car, etc.
> 
> But when she doesn't, and she loses custody of the kids and realizes that she has no claim to the house, watch her change her tune. She will be telling anyone who isn't deaf that it was all YOUR fault, that YOU were the unreasonable jerk who wouldn't give her another chance, YOU were the controlling a**hole that screwed her over...
> 
> And if you do go to MC, make sure that the counselor is hearing BOTH sides of this, and does not turn into your W's personal divorce planner.I agree she thinks that she has the upper hand as she is the woman and she will try and play the victim card with the assault, but I owned the house before marriage and I am clean as a whistle as far as depression, drinking and fooling around....I know the court may not look at all that but I would rather be clean on those things. you are right if I make out, she can say all she likes, I am not perfect but my flaws are more of the norm and acceptable in life as opposed to her issues which most tend to frown on.





turnera said:


> She did do a rape kit. Yes she did do no and it was 2-3 days after the fact so you are rightt the evidence was gone, her fear was that if she told me about the assault then she would have to tell me about the affair and she did not want to hurt me....atleast that is the story.





morituri said:


> Yes but
> 
> 
> 
> A rape is a very traumatic ordeal and for her to wait 3 days was very poor judgement on her part. The evidence was gone by then so it basically allowed the cousin of the OM to get away with rape.you are right there is alot of trauma and her waiting really destroyed any chances of them proving anything.......I also try to understand why she may not have wanted to say anything, never being assualted I cannot even belive to see the hurt one must feel inside....not making excusses just trying to understand





8yearscheating said:


> And what would you folks propose he do to change that? Obviously there is nothing he can do unless she changes her story. Does this one fall under the idea - accept the things he cannot change?you have a valid point, not much I can about what has happened in the past all that I can do is take those facts and my own thoughts and move forward, i am with you on accepting things that I cannot change, all I can do is use them to make my calls moving forward.


I appreciate everyones input on all of this, it is great deal of help to be able to talk about it with others and get their thoughts and input. Keep up the good work it is helping on my end


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

I am not here to argue with anyone--but I will defend what I have, and keep on stating, this is a terrible situation, and this woman she be gone!!!!!

There was no conjecture to ANYTHING

1. OP's wife runs, walks past her lovers house----we all know what she is doing---so where is the conjecture

2. OP's wife apoligizes to her lover for what her H. did in the supermarket---we all know she is still putting her lover, 1st or there wouldn't have even been a phone call to him, she is still thinking of him, and worried about him.---WHERE'S THE CONJECTURE

3. Lover's cousin---IS INVITED BY OP'S WIFE---to come over for a drink, with her kids in the house, and OP, obviously gone-------bottom line it doesn't really matter what happened---just having the other guy there, and drinking with him---is way the he*l out of line for a married woman--------WHERE'S THE CONJECTURE

Everything I stated was/is fact

As to who she is associating with---a druggie, and his cousin, who the cheating spouse claims abused her---could very possibly have criminal ties, those involved in drugs USUALLY DO----it doesn't matter ---the cheating spouse just tying herself up with them, is as wrong as it can be----once again WHERE IS THE CONJECTURE

The OP, will do what he wants---he must decide what to do----IMHO, his spouse no matter what she is doing now---went way to far, in what she did do---can't be trusted for no other reason than who she associates with, and has sex with, and who she invites into HER HOME WITH HER KIDS PRESENT, which includes ENDANGERING HER WHOLE FAMILY-----WHERE IS THE CONJECTURE????????

But then again maybe I am watching to many Lifetime Movie Network films----just kidding----nothing about this situation is funny, or should be taken lightly.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Read what the owner of the thread said to you JNJ. I won't hijack his thread.


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## howcouldshe (Jul 18, 2011)

jnj express said:


> I am not here to argue with anyone--but I will defend what I have, and keep on stating, this is a terrible situation, and this woman she be gone!!!!!
> 
> There was no conjecture to ANYTHING
> 
> ...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

how, the point is, if you want to save your marriage, you will have to be REALLY strong, adamant, unflinching, and unyielding. Do THIS, or I'm divorcing you. PERIOD. Ok?

You must insist on:
(1) All of her passwords and access to her phone IMMEDIATELY (so she doesn't have time to erase anything) whenever you ask for it.
(2) She writes a No Contact letter to OM that YOU read, approve, and send yourself.
(3) She sets up the MC appointment, and you both attend for as long as YOU want, and she actually DOES the homework and you SEE some changes in her.
(4) She stops all independent behavior and does nothing without letting you know where she's going, and is always accountable so that you can find her and she is where she says she's going to be. This is NOT negotiable! Remember, do this, or I'm divorcing you.

Options you may include:
(5) She takes a polygraph so you can see if she's been cheating all along or if this was a fluke.
(6) You set up a post-nup agreement that she signs stating that, if another affair occurs, she walks away with nothing.

If she balks at ANY of these things, proceed with divorce. You can always stop it later, but you have ONE trump card, and one card only - leaving her.


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## howcouldshe (Jul 18, 2011)

turnera said:


> how, the point is, if you want to save your marriage, you will have to be REALLY strong, adamant, unflinching, and unyielding. Do THIS, or I'm divorcing you. PERIOD. Ok?
> 
> You must insist on:
> (1) All of her passwords and access to her phone IMMEDIATELY (so she doesn't have time to erase anything) whenever you ask for it.
> ...


turnera thanks for that last post, that is exactly what I was loking for. I needed some points of what is going to be the path forward. I can tell you just knowing the state she is in right now she will not agree to all of that but possibly with therapy and time she may change her mind, is she does not then D is the path we take. I am not the one that chose the have the A, I also am not scared to be alone or that I wont find a woman that wont cheat in the future. Thanks again on that list, I think there should be a sticky with lines and suggestions like that for the board to be able to use.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I'm going to warn you. You have ONE chance and ONE chance only to get this right. It's all about the psychology. If you tell her she must do 1-4, and she balks, says maybe later, and you agree to let her stay, SHE WILL NEVER DO THEM.

Because you just proved to her, by letting her stay, that you're a spineless Nice Guy and she has no reason to worry - you're not gonna kick her out, she can continue to do whatever she wants.

Right now, she has to be scared as hell that you will leave her.

Period.

NOTHING else must be discussed. CHANGE or get out. 

I'm really serious, how. If you don't believe me, if you're waffling cos you're scared she'll leave YOU, SHE'LL KNOW. 

And if she really IS a User, if she really is just counting on you being a p*ssy, and she's going to keep on picking up random men, then you need to know that NOW. You will know by her unwillingness to do 1-4. Make sense?

And if she's unwilling to do 1-4, THEN YOU DON'T HAVE A MARRIAGE.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

I agree completely with Tunera. Only one caveat, the rape must come first for both of you. The things Tunera list should be stated as the eventual goal once healing on the rape is progressing. IC and MC should be mandatory for both of you. You do need to state the list as long term REQUIREMENTS though and I think your MC or IC can help you decide when precisely to relay the list in light of the rape.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

turnera said:


> how, the point is, if you want to save your marriage, you will have to be REALLY strong, adamant, unflinching, and unyielding. Do THIS, or I'm divorcing you. PERIOD. Ok?
> 
> You must insist on:
> (1) All of her passwords and access to her phone IMMEDIATELY (so she doesn't have time to erase anything) whenever you ask for it.
> ...


I'm impressed by this. Seems to really capture the areas where the trust has been betrayed, but all of this is geared towards preventing another occurence of the cheating. I know the marriage counseling will unwind the reasons behind her seeming need to cheat, but there seems to be a bit of a mystery here. Howcouldshe comes across as a very level headed person. High integrity, and a good guy. Not the type to choose a woman without similar attributes. That's why, as an outsider, it seems so surreal to see her getting involved with a guy like this, then letting them be in her home with the kids. Maybe it was discussed, and I missed it. Perhaps it just sounds like someone with a deeply repressed wild streak. This whole thing sounds like the situation my brother found himself in, so maybe it makes me paranoid. The onus was on my brother's shoulders to watch his wife, and find the ways that she was trying to skirt around the rules they had agreed upon when he caught her the previous time. After a while, the temptation would become too great, and she only hurt him again. Took 20 years to finally kick her out.

This is the problem that most men and women find themselves in, I know. We're assuming that the cheating spouse fell into a once-only situation that was just arbitrary in nature. To make a long story short, I wouldn't promise not to divorce until I completely understood the motivations that were going on to lead to this situation, given the strangeness. If she has integrity and remorse, she would be less worried about privacy and more about proving that this list wasn't necessary after a year or so. My own brother made the mistake of thinking that he could change enough to fill that void, but he couldn't.

I recognize also that we all need to be more like 8yearscheating, though, with a big heart of compassion, too. Nobody deserves to be assaulted.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

8yearscheating said:


> I agree completely with Tunera. Only one caveat, the rape must come first for both of you. The things Tunera list should be stated as the eventual goal once healing on the rape is progressing. IC and MC should be mandatory for both of you. You do need to state the list as long term REQUIREMENTS though and I think your MC or IC can help you decide when precisely to relay the list in light of the rape.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 I guess that would be viable, if one believed she was actually raped. I don't.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Maybe that will come out in MC Tunera. But I think he has to very careful. If it is true, the worst thing he could do is question it.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Besires that. If he still does all of the items you listed and uses the direction of the MC or IC as to when, he still accomplishes what he needs to without leaving it open and her thinking all she has to do is create a sympathy situation andit will all go away or that there iwll be no consequences in the future..


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Yeah, I'm not saying to accuse her or anything. I just think that treating her with kid gloves because of the rape won't accomplish anything.


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## howcouldshe (Jul 18, 2011)

8yearscheating said:


> I agree completely with Tunera. Only one caveat, the rape must come first for both of you. The things Tunera list should be stated as the eventual goal once healing on the rape is progressing. IC and MC should be mandatory for both of you. You do need to state the list as long term REQUIREMENTS though and I think your MC or IC can help you decide when precisely to relay the list in light of the rape.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We are both in IC now and have I called today for MC, Are you thinking that the list needs to be on the table today. or see how MC progresses and then in a few weeks put it out there?



Halien said:


> I'm impressed by this. Seems to really capture the areas where the trust has been betrayed, but all of this is geared towards preventing another occurence of the cheating. I know the marriage counseling will unwind the reasons behind her seeming need to cheat, but there seems to be a bit of a mystery here. Howcouldshe comes across as a very level headed person. High integrity, and a good guy. Not the type to choose a woman without similar attributes. That's why, as an outsider, it seems so surreal to see her getting involved with a guy like this, then letting them be in her home with the kids. Maybe it was discussed, and I missed it. Perhaps it just sounds like someone with a deeply repressed wild streak. This whole thing sounds like the situation my brother found himself in, so maybe it makes me paranoid. The onus was on my brother's shoulders to watch his wife, and find the ways that she was trying to skirt around the rules they had agreed upon when he caught her the previous time. After a while, the temptation would become too great, and she only hurt him again. Took 20 years to finally kick her out.
> 
> This is the problem that most men and women find themselves in, I know. We're assuming that the cheating spouse fell into a once-only situation that was just arbitrary in nature. To make a long story short, I wouldn't promise not to divorce until I completely understood the motivations that were going on to lead to this situation, given the strangeness. If she has integrity and remorse, she would be less worried about privacy and more about proving that this list wasn't necessary after a year or so. My own brother made the mistake of thinking that he could change enough to fill that void, but he couldn't.
> 
> I recognize also that we all need to be more like 8yearscheating, though, with a big heart of compassion, too. Nobody deserves to be assaulted.


You are on the money about me, I am level headed and know right from wrong and tend to follow it to a T. From what I am told and would like to belive just knowing my wife the way I do.....I would say that this situation is on that she kind of feel into, it was not something that she sought out to find BUT when it was presented to her SHE had full control over having a A or not and she made the wrong choice. I can tell you the fact that she was so reckless with herself, my kids and me is really part of the big upset, from the phsical harm that could have been done to my kids and that was done to her to the fact of if she contracted something what that means to her, our kids, me......the list goes on. I have not made any promises any way or the other all that I have told her is that we owe it to ourselves and our kids to see if we can make this work, we may make it work we may not but we need to explore it.....



turnera said:


> I guess that would be viable, if one believed she was actually raped. I don't.


I can tell you thought has crossed my mind that it is a lie, she lied about the affair so who knows if she had plans with this guy and things did not work out the way she wanted. I know my wife well enough that I dont think she would make a false acusation to the police about something.......but before you all say it I thought I know my wife and yet she cheated on me.......
I do like to doubt that my wife would have and A for a few months with the one guy and then at the end move on to the cousion.........but again I never thought she would have an affair as she knows that is wrong.........I have a feeling this is one that I will never know the truth on.



turnera said:


> Yeah, I'm not saying to accuse her or anything. I just think that treating her with kid gloves because of the rape won't accomplish anything.


I am not wearing kid gloves with her on this I am trying to be supportive but at the same time questiong it. The fact that she invited someone that she did not know over and then to have drinks with him while I am not at home and the kids are asleep in the other room. I can tell you that is purely wreckless and I know I am haveing a hard time looking past it and I think that she is having trouble understanding why she allowed him over, but again I think the regret is there due to how it ended for her. 

I think we all have regeret when it does not go the way we thought that it would.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Your doing well hcs. Steadya s she goes and rememebr to walk away if your mouth starts engaging before your brain. WHat I suggested was letting the MC and IC guide you on the appropriate time to start listing boundaries and requirements for R.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

how, she got drunk with him. she had sex. she fell asleep and when she woke up and realized she fell asleep and forgot to get rid of him, she called it rape.

And, NO, do NOT go into MC and then wait for later to put your demands on the table. I can't tell you how many cheaters go into MC and LIE the whole way through.

For once in your life, man up and say do THIS or LEAVE.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Did you tell the other man's fiance yet?


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## howcouldshe (Jul 18, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Did you tell the other man's fiance yet?


I have not told her yet, I am trying to figure out how to tell her as I do not know her phone number I do know where she lives and her fiances does work during the day....she is home all summer as she is a teacher. I would really rather do it over the phone or leave a note on her car telling her to call me and fill her in......any ideas on how to do it?

Typed printed letter mailed to her place with my number if she has questions, cause I know he will lie to her just as her did me


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Why can't you just face her and tell her?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

That sounds like the kind of attitude that led your wife to lost respect for you in the first place and look for other men. If you're going to keep your marriage, you really need to do some work on YOUR weaknesses, as well.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Eh, I don't know about doing it face-to-face. I think on the phone or via an email is better. 

Face-to-face could be used as a last resort, IMO. 



howcouldshe said:


> I have not told her yet, I am trying to figure out how to tell her as I do not know her phone number I do know where she lives and her fiances does work during the day....she is home all summer as she is a teacher. I would really rather do it over the phone or leave a note on her car telling her to call me and fill her in......any ideas on how to do it?
> 
> Typed printed letter mailed to her place with my number if she has questions, cause I know he will lie to her just as her did me


Facebook?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

It would be better if you AND your wife went and talked to her. At least then you'd know your wife was sincere.


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## howcouldshe (Jul 18, 2011)

turnera said:


> That sounds like the kind of attitude that led your wife to lost respect for you in the first place and look for other men. If you're going to keep your marriage, you really need to do some work on YOUR weaknesses, as well.


I can tell you that I value your opinions most of the time even if they are harsh.

I can tell you why I am hesitant to talk to the OM's fiance is due to the fact that I am trying to make things work with my W. I can tell you that making it work is going to be tough but I am going to give it a try for several months at the very least.
I am trying to not do anything that will torpedo the efforts of fixing this or exploring if it can be fixed.......

Alot of you will say that I am being a [email protected] for not standing up and sticking it to her, but I am on the ground here and can see what the opposing camp is doing so that is how I am planning my strategy....

I am of the mindset that this can work or it might now work but at the very least I have 6 months to loose trying to make it work. If it does not then we split.......I am trying to be the bigger person who takes the adult stance and looks the situation and sees if it can fixed.


Am I missing something?


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## howcouldshe (Jul 18, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Facebook?


I could do that but she has a private account so I would have to invite her and then hope she accepts and then tell her..........

she already knows that her fiance has issues with drugs and what not as he was out of the house for several months so her hearing this I dont think she sould be suprised.

But as I have said I am trying to see if I can make it work at home and doing this will be a big breaker.......


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Is there a way you can message her on there? Even if her page is private? 

Try to friend her and see what happens? 

Oh as for you trying to work it out and this "being a big dealbreaker"--honey you need to lose that attitude.

Cause check it out--if your lady decides she doesn't want to be married anymore after you tell the truth to OMF, then she wasn't that invested in your marriage anyway. A truly remorseful person who wants to reconcile, will take as many licks as they get, get pushed down, and keep trying to get up again for their marriage. In fact, if she bails after you do this, she just did you a HUGE favor. 

Know that.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

You can message without her being a friend on FB. You know the address so you could send a letter registered return receipt requested to her name. Taht way she has to sign for it, he can't intercept it and you know she got it. Personally I wouldn't put a phone number in it. Maybe a throw away email address from hidemyass.com you can can delete it, but not your regualr address. This woman may go ballistic, tell her fiance and then both may start harassing you. You never know, so keep the communication at arms length.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Oh and you will have to put a return address on a return receipt letter. Iwould use the corner liquor store and a different namethen ask for the confirmation by email - I'm pretty sure the receiver does not see that address. Or jsut be straight up without a name. Again, protect yourself. You make your own decisions. NO ONE on her has all the answers or knows your complete situation.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

howcouldshe said:


> I can tell you that I value your opinions most of the time even if they are harsh.
> 
> I can tell you why I am hesitant to talk to the OM's fiance is due to the fact that I am trying to make things work with my W. I can tell you that making it work is going to be tough but I am going to give it a try for several months at the very least.
> I am *trying to not do anything that will torpedo the efforts* of fixing this or exploring if it can be fixed.......
> ...


I am NOT telling you to stick it to her. 

I'm telling you that, to salvage your marriage, you have to insist on 100% honesty and communication hereonout. You have to be on the SAME page, working TOGETHER as a team. If you can't reach that, there's nothing to salvage.

Tell me what it is you think is going to happen in YOUR MARRIAGE if you tell OM's wife? I don't understand. 

Do you think your wife is going to be mad at you? That's what it sounds like you're saying. 

To which I will ask: WHY DO YOU CARE if your wife gets mad? It should be YOU who is mad at HER and you should be DEMANDING that she either do the steps I gave you, OR LEAVE.

Please hear me when I tell you that if you don't make this a hard line to cross, she WILL cheat on you again. Right now, this very week, is your one chance to prove to her that she'd better get her act together and RESPECT you, or you're gone. 

If you do any less than that, you are a DOORMAT. Do you understand the concept?

Here's the #1 rule to know about women, and it dates back to caveman days: Women have to respect their man, or they grow to hate him.

That's it, that's your life, in a nutshell. If you don't believe me, go to Infidelity and read a few dozen threads and compare. The ones where the man takes a stand and says get your act together or get out...she falls in love with him all over again. He's being manly. He's fighting for her. He's respecting himself.

The ones where the man worries about upsetting her, fears she will leave him, grovels to keep her from being 'upset' with him about daring to be upset with her for cheating? They despise their men and either leave them or cheat even more.

It's human nature. It just is.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Dude, listen to what the ladies here are telling you...just saying.


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## BigBri (Jul 22, 2011)

Women don't love men they don't respect. You earn that respect by laying down the law, my friend. You have to break a few eggs to bake a cake. Now take those eggs out of the fridge and get them to room temperature at least.


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

HCS, why are you so afraid of telling the OMF? Are you scared that your W is going to get mad at you again?

Buddy, if you really want this to work, you have to inform the OMF, and if your W REALLY wants to stay with you, she SHOULD NOT give a flying f**k what happens to his relationship-she should be putting ALL her energy towards yours.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

F-102 said:


> HCS, why are you so afraid of telling the OMF?


Because he fears losing her...his wife. And therein lies the entire problem.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

turnera said:


> I am NOT telling you to stick it to her.
> 
> I'm telling you that, to salvage your marriage, you have to insist on 100% honesty and communication hereonout. You have to be on the SAME page, working TOGETHER as a team. If you can't reach that, there's nothing to salvage.
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Only actions, not words, really matter.

Actions:

1. States that she has ended all contact with OM.
2. States that she is willing to send a NC (no contact) letter to OM.
3. States that she wants to go to MC(marriage counseling) and possibly IC (individual counseling) as well.
4. States that she is more than willing to be an open book, accountable for her whereabouts.

Anything short of those 4, then she is truly not serious about reconciliation and you go ahead and file for divorce. *Those are your N.U.T.S. (non-negotiable, unalterable terms). *


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## howcouldshe (Jul 18, 2011)

F-102 said:


> HCS, why are you so afraid of telling the OMF? Are you scared that your W is going to get mad at you again?
> 
> Buddy, if you really want this to work, you have to inform the OMF, and if your W REALLY wants to stay with you, she SHOULD NOT give a flying f**k what happens to his relationship-she should be putting ALL her energy towards yours.


I can tell you I am no longer scared of my wife being angry because as you have stated and others have as well that she needs to be worried about me and her not him and her....if she can not see that then you are right I have nothing that can be salvaged. I plan to drop the news to the OMF on FB.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

howcouldshe said:


> I plan to drop the news to her via FB.


Say what?

You're talking about breaking up with your wife on FB? Did I understand that correctly?


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

I think he means the OMW


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

8yearscheating said:


> I think he means the OMW


 Oh! :rofl: 
thanks!


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

HCS--send the email today to OMF.


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> Because he fears losing her...his wife. And therein lies the entire problem.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And she is taking full advantage of this "problem".


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