# The truth about manipulation. It's not what you think!



## goatz (Jul 21, 2009)

If your thinking about movies where the poor women was deceived and manipulated, get over it. I'm not talking about brainwashing or any crazy **** like that. Manipulating can be as simple as acting like your sick to get out of having to mow the grass, or as complex as getting your hubby to have a threesome. It is natural and human nature to do it but its how you do it, why you do it and whether or not you should do it that determines whether or not your right to do it. 

My wife is going to set up an account to help explain what I mean. No it won't be me posing as someone else. I am mindful of my manipulations and no longer do it to my wife because I don't need to. Most marriages are not built on manipulations but most people stay married because they are manipulated to being empathetic, or understanding, everybody is just too dense to see it. You can tell me all day long that you don't or didn't used to manipulate your husband or wife, my wife does it to me and I let her because I don't mind doing what she wants most of the time. Even though she thinks she has to manipulate me to do stuff that are part of the things she usually does, it doesn't bother me, because its usually an act of desperation and I am empathetic so I understand that the kids and house can be overwhelming at times, and I'm glad to help.

Consequences to negative actions are a form of manipulation and are necessary for all of society.

If you think about it, it isn't any different than the show Intervention. They manipulate them into a dialog, then manipulate them into self reflection, then the person sees what they have become and chooses to change for the better, and after its done they have better relationships etc. They know that that person is unwilling to change and they hurt the ones they love. You can say well they have an addiction. True, but being a **** hurts too and can be just as difficult to open a dialog with that type of person. Usually only the person who's problem it is can fix it. You can help them be a better person. You can't just say "well if your not going to talk to me I give up". People usually have to be coaxed into a situation where they can fix their problems, because you cannot fix their problems for them.

The wife who is tired of housework asks her unwilling husband to help around the house. He says he will but never does, so she goes on strike. Good for her right, the house is a pigsty for 2 weeks before he "understands her position" and starts helping out. Now she happy, and he's more understanding. 
He had to go through several stages to get there:

resistance, to what she wanted him to do
witness, the consequences to his actions
anger, because of loss of control
guilt, from seeing what she had to do every day
self reflection, questioning whether he was right or not
empathy, from realizing how hard this is on the one he loves
giving in, because he realized it was the right thing to do

She manipulated him into undergoing a self reflecting session, he felt empathetic and started helping around the house. She may not have even realized she was manipulating him, but she still did it and was not wrong for doing it.

Even though you may not see it, the way I manipulate people is to force a positive self reflection. I create a setting to induce empathy, and therefor self reflection. It may seem superficial but if you read into it you will see. I can't put up with years of counseling, fighting, and heart ache. I get to the root of the problem then generate a setting for self reflection for the one issue through manipulation. The outcome is normally beneficial, and if it makes everyone happy who cares. We need less science and more common sense. Believe it or not I have taken complete strangers (usually men) who are having marital problems and in 20 min made them realize its their fault, then they fix it. Not seek counseling which costs more money and creates more stress, or waiting years for the problems to "fix themselves". I am a realist, up front, and brutally honest. Bleeding hearts are great for support if that's whats needed because there is no fix, fine that's not me and I'll stay out of it. My wife went from no sense at all to completly self aware through lots of self reflection about her actions and the way they effect others; after a while I didn't have to force it. Now she does it on her own and very rarely makes mistakes especially socially. I think she is brilliant. That doesn't mean she does everything I ask her to like a slave, because that is definetly not true. We have a very open relationship and talk about our problems all the time. We constantly work to have a better marriage. She is aware that I have had to manipulate her into seeing that something was wrong or to make her a better person, and shes fine with that because she has done it to me as well and I am glad she did. Maybe its just the way I do it? I am not mean. I don't do it to make people do what I want them to, I do it so they see whats right. Sometimes people just needs to get off of his high horse and making them feel inferior is the fastest way to open a dialog. People are less complex than the sciences that study them. There is beauty in simplicity. It doesn't have to be some long drawn out solution. Sometimes its best if people see who they really are.

AND NO I'M NOT TRYING TO GET YOUR GOAT! I'M A REALIST AND NOT A BLEEDING HEART.

What do you think?


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

Everyone needs to be in control............

of themselves.


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## goatz (Jul 21, 2009)

Most people are not and have to be shown the way, by being shown their wrong. You can't just tell someone their wrong and expect them to fix it, and if they do fix it by just being to ld they already knew they were wrong.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I find it an interesting proposition Goatz. I think get what you are saying.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

whats wrong to you may be right for them...
you are dealing with adults, right? as most adults will not like or appriciate your trying to enforce your opinions and preferences upon them.


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## goatz (Jul 21, 2009)

In a way your right, but I know when I'm right and wrong and admit it freely. That is very important when you are trying to light the way for others.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

You would be better to spend your time learning to control yourself, not others.
You know what they say...

its not what happens to you in life, but your reaction to it.

Your ideas of becomeing a master manipulator, are going to be a waste of time. People need to be able to control themselves and their reactions far more than learning to manipulate others.


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## goatz (Jul 21, 2009)

And how do you propose we teach them how to control themselves. I have helped a lot more people than I have hurt by the way, and if I hurt them it was intentional. Besides it doesn't have anything to do with becoming a master manipulator, and I'm not putting myself on some sort of pedestal. It simply has to do with teaching others empathy, that's what it all boils down to. It isn't how you always get there, it is the end result. Despite the way I do it, if you can resolve a a problem in 3 days as opposed to 3 months and the result is the same and both people are happy even knowing how I got there, whats the problem? They are happy and don't care how it was done, as opposed to months of fighting and therapy and talking their way through it. Everyone just wants to be happy, I'm not stealing anything from them. They don't do anything that they aren't willing to do, I just open a channel so that they can let themselves. I don't do it for selfish purposes any more, I now know that is wrong. I make things better not worse. I prevent a lot of unnecessary bs. I do it faster than talking. It is more effective and longer lasting. If you want to talk till your blue in the face for weeks or months go ahead but in the end your still only trying to get them to see how their wrong just like me but I do it faster.


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

i think you should wear a cape.


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## goatz (Jul 21, 2009)

recent_cloud said:


> i think you should wear a cape.


I do.


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

goatz said:


> I do.


and tights.

spandex tights.

i assume tights go with the cape.


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## goatz (Jul 21, 2009)

Yup, but they are so tight I have to manipulate my ass into them.

The problem everyone has with manipulation is it brings out a sense that you are not in control. If you think you are in control you are already out of control. Nobody is in control, they cannot always control the way they feel, who they have to be around, or what they have to do. Understand that I speak of the literal definition of manipulation not the kind you see on Jerry Springer. There is no brainwashing, hypnosis, or slave like states of mind. It isn't so you can cheat on your spouse or swindle money from family. It is to create a sense of empathy that they already have but just bringing it out in them. It is a way to break communication barriers, and make them show themselves how they have wronged someone.

This is not some form of nazi mind control. Besides society and your parents have manipulated you into who you are today. If you were bad there were consequences to teach you right from wrong. But how do you punish an adult? You could just leave them but that will not solve anything. Or you could show them how they have wronged you by taking them down a few notches and make them think about what they have done and how they hurt you. After that it's up to them to change and fix it. You can't just tell someone they are mean and expect them to change, it's ridiculous. So tell me you don't manipulate people and I will tell you your a liar. Even if it isn't for selfish reasons you still do it, you all do it. Good or bad it's human nature and unavoidable. So get over it and come to terms with the fact that everyone in some form or another does it!


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

lol

Well... all very flowery goatz. But, still - if you are in the 'deciding seat' all the time when it comes to control, how on earth will you know when you need to be *cough* persuaded to change?

You say you know what is right and wrong. all the time. But, doesn't that make you infallible? are you willing to accept the responsibility of having to be right every. single. time?

And isn't it ALOT of work going around setting up all these 'lessons' for people to learn? I mean, call me lazy, but even to save my own marriage I don't think I have it in me to go around setting up complex 'lessons' to my hubby to learn. 

He loved me once. He knows what right and wrong is (and looks good in his cape and is a hell of a swordsman but chose pants over tights as his package was just too large to fit in the standard tights ) with regards to loving me back. But FREE WILL. CHOICE. 

That is his. He can choose to ignore me. Or love me. Or say he's sorry. Or manipulate me. Or any number of good, evil or other CHOICES.

So when you are right all the time (aka God) and when you have taken it upon yourself to teach those under you (everybody?) lessons (parental / godlike stuff) and chosen as your means of doing this to play games and manipulate to bring others to self realization and positive change (parables, miracles, manipulation - typical usual god stuff) no wonder the monotheistic gods finally chose to let the lesser beings use "free will" They got sick and tired of trying to help them see the light and having to show them the way all the time.


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

i never said i did or did not manipulate anyone.

i just said your should wear a cape.

and i guessed you wore spandex tights.

and you responded that your were good at manipulating asses,
especially your own.


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## goatz (Jul 21, 2009)

Commonsense will tell you what is right and wrong, and I have a lot of that. But I understand your female perspective, because you are usually the victims of selfish manipulation. Everybody is their own god and their own temple. You went a little bit overboard with the whole god thing though, it's kinda weird. Call me not lazy but I never give up on people I care about. I too am manipulated but at least I am aware of it. I pay taxes, I work, I shop at Walmart, and I was in the military, we are all manipulated to do these things, we don't have to but we do. Guess what? The military is where I learned how to manipulate people, because I watched and paid attention to how they used people. I don't use people or manipulate for selfish reasons unless those people have done it to me. Nobody is perfect, but we can help each other to become better people. My way is quicker, less painful, and longer lasting. And it still gets the same results!

You seem like the type who is unwilling to give in even when your wrong, you like to think your in control all of the time and that you think you know everything that is going on around you. You get mad if you are left out of the loop. You think of yourself as a strong women who is wise and will argue to the death if its something you don't like again even if your wrong. You most likely don't show a lot of affection to your husband mostly because you don't trust men. You can't stand the idea of someone being in control of you especially a man.



recent_cloud said:


> i never said i did or did not manipulate anyone.
> 
> i just said your should wear a cape.
> 
> ...


I just like the way they hug my oo 's. LOL


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## Rhea (May 16, 2009)

RC is a guy...not a woman. Just an FYI


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

Rhea said:


> RC is a guy...not a woman. Just an FYI


should i thank you for noticing

or wonder why that needed to be said


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## Rhea (May 16, 2009)

Misunderstanding. 

I thought he was speaking of you up there and was greatly confused as you are not a woman. 

But as you kindly informed me, it was not you he was speaking of.


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

Nope it was me. LOL

The "non affectionate one" :rofl:



> You seem like the type who is unwilling to give in even when your wrong, you like to think your in control all of the time and that you think you know everything that is going on around you. You get mad if you are left out of the loop. You think of yourself as a strong women who is wise and will argue to the death if its something you don't like again even if your wrong. You most likely don't show a lot of affection to your husband mostly because you don't trust men. You can't stand the idea of someone being in control of you especially a man.


Lets see: nope, don't I wish, ha. I can't remember the last time i was in a loop to be left out of. heh... I don't think of myself as strong, ask anybody here  wise? :rofl: yeah right. *grin* wait, it gets better... I trust men WAYYYYY too much, thank you... lol... again ask anybody that knows me - they will tell ya. 

I'm pretty happy to control me and I've played with the idea of being a sub to a man before. 

So what? that's um... 0 out of 12.. I thought you were right all the time? Damn false prohpets.. phooey :rofl:


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

And we don't actually have proof that recent IS a guy... I'll believe it when I know it's true.


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## goatz (Jul 21, 2009)

OMFG you sounded just like a women I'm sorry. LOL


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

goatz said:


> OMFG you sounded just like a women I'm sorry. LOL


you have no clue what you sound like, do you.


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

snix11 said:


> And we don't actually have proof that recent IS a guy... I'll believe it when I know it's true.


shall we arrange some sort of demonstration


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

Yes. I'm qualified to determine your 23rd pair both lab and field testing.. which would you prefer?


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## Rhea (May 16, 2009)

goatz said:


> OMFG you sounded just like a women I'm sorry. LOL


Let's not get into the a$$ your making yourself out to be Goatz. What's got you so bent on life that you feel like you have to be the master puppeteer of your wife in order to find happiness in your marriage? Sounds like you have control issues as thats exactly what those whom manipulate need. They must feel in control or else they feel lost.


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

snix11 said:


> Yes. I'm qualified to determine your 23rd pair both lab and field testing.. which would you prefer?


um....field testing.

but i dont have 23 pairs of anything i'm aware of.

oh, you must be referring to chromosones and such.

nevermind.


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

oops


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

you're usually not this repetitive snix


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

yeah. yeah. my my computer computer is is a little little messed 
up up today 

Field testing it is then...


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## goatz (Jul 21, 2009)

Ok, what I said was out of line earlier so I apologize. You still don't understand though and that's fine.


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## Rhea (May 16, 2009)

No...I understand it to a point. But it sounds like you think manipulation is needed to fix every situation. But manipulation is simply forcing the result you want. Which in some situations I can see working IE: you don't help wife clean so wife goes on strike...but in other situations well....eh..


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## goatz (Jul 21, 2009)

Rhea said:


> No...I understand it to a point. But it sounds like you think manipulation is needed to fix every situation. But manipulation is simply forcing the result you want. Which in some situations I can see working IE: you don't help wife clean so wife goes on strike...but in other situations well....eh..


Everyone forces others to do what they want but its the reason and meaning that determines whether or not its ok. Sometimes its just better to let bygones be bygones.


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

'everyone' do not force others to do as they say.

you have a shallow and skewed view of social contracts.

i as well found your apology insufficient and self serving.


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## Rhea (May 16, 2009)

goatz said:


> Ok, what I said was out of line earlier so I apologize. You still don't understand though and that's fine.


An apology followed by a "but still" is not really an apology, it's a "I'm going to say this to make this person feel better but they're still wrong."


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## goatz (Jul 21, 2009)

I really am sorry. I am also not saying they are wrong, I am saying their understanding of what I am saying is wrong. The way they think I think would be wrong in my eyes as well.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

goatz said:


> I really am sorry. I am also not saying they are wrong, I am saying their understanding of what I am saying is wrong. The way they think I think would be wrong in my eyes as well.


I sense some serious control issues.........


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## goatz (Jul 21, 2009)

How do you figure?


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

People that cannot control themselves or their enviroment often start trying to control others. It is a well known fact of human nature.


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## goatz (Jul 21, 2009)

Human nature is what I am getting at. It's human nature to want to have sex but rape is wrong. When you guys talk you make it seem as though I am raping their mind, it is nothing like that. It is also human nature to resist being controlled which is why everyone is so defensive about it. My wife actually has all of the control over the finances, shes the one who drives, and we make important decisions together, I also tell her shes right, often. Besides whether or not anyone will admit it other people are part of your environment, which means consciously or not everyone tries to control even small things. ie your husband was an ******* when he was drunk so you don't have sex with him for 3 days, even though you may have wanted to. Your trying to manipulate who he is so that he doesn't get punished. That is a form of manipulation. 10-20% of everyone we interact with is some sort of manipulation even a political debate, your trying to convince the other that your right by telling them why your side is better and leaving out the bad. No matter where you go or who you are, you will forever and always be manipulated JUST LIKE ME! Sure I want money but I don't go to a bank and rob it. Why? Because of the fear of going to prison (and hurting and scaring others). Generating a consequence for actions is a form of manipulation. Leaving your husband because hes an *******, so he will think about his actions is manipulation (the kind I am speaking of). Great or small we all do it, and it is done to us. Even Buddhist monasteries do it. How? By keeping women out, to keep their minds clear. They manipulate the sex of the monastery in order for their disciples to excel.


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## carmaenforcer (Mar 7, 2008)

*goatz*

I have the same philosophy as what you describe, on the art of and need for, conditioning. 
I don't like it, and wish that I didn't have to do what I do. Manipulation and coercion are not listed as key ingredients for a successful meeting of two free thinking individuals but they are.
Conditioning (the PC term) seems to be the only way for some people to see things from a different angle than just their point of view. Usually these people are more selfish than what is healthy and necessary in a coupling of or union of two equal individuals.
Some people know how to compromise and be empathetic towards others pain and sympathetic to their needs and some don't and need to be taught.

Most women use control, manipulation and subscribe to the notion of changing their mate, it's not only a birth right for them but I think that they invented this type of passive domestic manipulation, brain washing. For sure they brag about it to their friends and take some pride from it, so it's ok goatz.


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## Heidiw (Jul 2, 2009)

Why do people feel the need to play these mind games? I just don't get it. You guys that think this ok to do this to people sound just like my soon to be ex. I did things for him because I wanted to not because he was playing some Jedi mind trick with me!

I was also raised by parents who taught me to always think of others before my self & to always be kind to others (even if their not kind back).

His "mind games" is what destroyed our marriage. Like I said before he destroyed others lives too. The ones that were hurt the most by him were the kids of these couples. 

Nobody needs to control anyone. If I asked my husband to do something & it didn't get done then I just did it myself. I have two hands & a brain! 

I can't believe you would preach this crap to people. A relationship isn't about control & neither is a breakup (at least not to me). I would never date another guy like my husband because how would I ever know if he was being real with me. I would never be able to trust a person who would do that to anyone else.

I am just thankful not I don't have to put up with it anymore.


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## goatz (Jul 21, 2009)

The difference is that carmaenforcer an I realize when it's being done. You don't realize when you are doing it. We see it therefor we can control the extent to which it is done and for purposes that have a positive outcome if we so choose. You don't think any manipulation is right because that's what destroyed your marriage, for which am truly sorry. It's no different than someone you love dying on an airplane and you never liking airplanes after that point because it brings up bad memories of the past. He was a negative manipulator. If you had realized that, you would have never let it work on you, and he intern wouldn't have tried to do it anymore. Not that it's your fault because everyone is susceptible to being manipulated, but he chose to do it for selfish reasons and hurt the one he was supposed to love. In my book that's bad. If some form of manipulation was the only way to have a positive outcome in a situation, would you still say it's wrong? Even if would have ended in divorce and a broken home for their kids? If there was just not enough time to fix the problem through counciling? That a person with bad traits could be made to be the good person they are and hold the bad traits back to save their marriage and themselves in the process? If the only time a husband got sex is when they bought flowers for their wives how good would florist shops be doing? Do you think that men would buy flowers every day because they like to see their wives smile or do you think they want to get laid? This instance would be both parties manipulating. There is more than one way to skin a cat, and there is a fine line between doing it for selfish purposes and doing it because you care.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

I liked your post goatz. very interesting. manipulation is such a big part of any relationship. 

i also think that someone who is not concerned with manipulation, or someone with a "simple" mind, cannot be manipulated. i happen to believe only a manipulator can be manipulated. i dont think a "fool" can be manipulated.


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## goatz (Jul 21, 2009)

It's not just a big part of a relationship it's what makes a relationship work, "give and take". (I know I'm going to hear a lot of crap over this)

You cannot manipulate someone with a simple mind because you do not have one. If you do it from their perspective it's just like anyone else. Those who cannot identify manipulation will always be manipulated. Once you learn to identify a manipulator and the way they work you can call them out on it any time.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

goatz said:


> Those who cannot identify manipulation will always be manipulated.


I actually dont agree with that. and actually, i changed my mind, i dont think that manipulation even exists. 

you strike me as someone that might be an alcoholic.


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## goatz (Jul 21, 2009)

Did you vote?

Also I only drink about twice a month and get drunk about 4-5 times a year. I don't use drugs either.

I will reword that because it's not entirely true:
Those who don't recognize manipulation are more susceptible to it.

You pose a curious question as to whether or not manipulation even exists, I find that to be very interesting. I'll think about that.


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

goatz said:


> You pose a curious question as to whether or not manipulation even exists, I find that to be very interesting.



you've written with grandiloquence describing and defining 'manipulation', and it's only now you entertain the possibility it may not exist.

well done.



goatz said:


> I'll think about that.


oh, lordy. stand back.


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## Nobody123 (Jun 23, 2009)

In the real world, the terms “manipulate”, “influence”, “sway”, “train” and “condition” can be used interchangeably. “Manipulate” might be a little crude but honestly, everyone is trying to influence and maneuver others in a certain way. There is nothing wrong with it as long as the intention is not ill-conceived and the end results are meant for the greater good. To be able to understand and influence others in a positive manner is a strong attribute in leadership or any relationship. 

The Op’s example actually makes sense. Instead of telling hubby how you feel when they don’t do a certain task, it is much better to let him suffer the consequence if they don’t get it done. It is like training a dog; you can either beat the crap out of it or reinforce the good behavior but in the end, you want the dog to associate consequences with its actions so it will eventually do what you wish. You can control yourself all day along but in any relationship, since it is a two way street so if your partner or your dog doesn’t see your point, it is entirely pointless. 

Men are from Mars and women from Venus; men associate with actions while women respond to feeling. Without any external stimulus (I don’t mean talking), if you leave either hubby or puppy to come to his/its own realization what they should be doing, you might be wasting a lifetime on a mission never taken off.


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

Snork!


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

Nobody123 said:


> In the real world, the terms “manipulate”, “influence”, “sway”, “train” and “condition” can be used interchangeably.


in the real world that statement is false and absurd.

and since the sentence is the 'if', there's no reason to read the rest of the increasingly chimeratic 'then'.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

Heidiw said:


> Why do people feel the need to play these mind games? I just don't get it. .



I know what you mean. These are mind games. Who knows why, but one thing for sure....
Once you have met and dealt with someone like this on a personal level, you will do anything not to become involved with someone like that again !

This is the best part of my husband.. he doesn't play head games.


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## goatz (Jul 21, 2009)

preso said:


> This is the best part of my husband.. he doesn't play head games.


You just don't notice. You so it too.


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## Heidiw (Jul 2, 2009)

Goatz -
I wasn't manipulated by my husband. Manipulation was never a part of our relationship until some years ago & it wasn't something he ever needed to do to me either. 

If I needed him to do something I would just ask him. If he didn't want to do it then I just did it myself or it just didn't get done at all. He got into the true head games some time ago when people started messing with him. That's when a side of him started to come out. He knew how to get people to do things for him or how to tear them down without pouncing on them. 

When he started using the internet he realized that he could tell people anything & they would believe him. If some woman was lonely at home he knew what to say to make them feel good. Just like if they were being abused he would get a hold of their husbands & tear into them. That made the women like him more. If they had low self esteem he told them all the things they would want to hear. The thing is that he would get these women & they wouldn't realize they were being played. 

I see through the bull$hit & he knew it. Oh he's tried to keep me close to him especially in the last few weeks but I knew it wasnt' going to work. Just like last Friday we hung out & he tried to turn his mind games on me. I turned it back on him & told him that just because he thinks he is in control of these stupid women he's not in control of me. I also reminded him that he doesn't hold the strings to them they are actually standing over him with bigger strings playing him. They give him bits of their lives so he'll feel like a hero. Then when they see they have him they will suck him in deeper. I told him that he was a fool to think he was in control of anything. I also reminded him that just because I did things for him & that I was pretty laid back that they won't be with him. I told him to really pay attention to what they tell him, email, etc. :rofl:

As soon as someone starts the mind games with me well, I am done with them. Once you try to manipulate someone there is no trust in my opinion.


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

goatz said:


> You just don't notice. You so it too.


i think you need to be a little more judgemental. 

and how's the thinking about whether manipulation actually exists going.

i mean, until you answer that question, what the hell are you posting about.


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## Heidiw (Jul 2, 2009)

recent_cloud said:


> i think you need to be a little more judgemental.
> 
> and how's the thinking about whether manipulation actually exists going.
> 
> i mean, until you answer that question, what the hell are you posting about.


:iagree::smthumbup:


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## Rhea (May 16, 2009)

If you must mind f*ck someone to keep them around then....

Well I don't want to assume, but I just think it's not cool

As I said mind f*cking for housework is one thing...

But mind f*cking your entire relationship is another

and I've taken to posting in the form of RC

one liners after another...lol

I'm self entertained tonight....


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

Rhea said:


> and I've taken to posting in the form of RC
> 
> one liners after another...lolI'm self entertained tonight....


until now i never realized i posted like william shatner. thank you for inadvertantly revealing that to me.

oh and please feel free to expound on the subject of 'self entertained'.

i sense a movie.

maybe a real real short movie

but one with a beginning, middle, and ending.


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## Rhea (May 16, 2009)

Ah a short movie eh...

You sir...under estimate me...

Bring it on.


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

i like the way you call me sir

and 'bring it on' sounds a lot like 'may i please'


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## Rhea (May 16, 2009)

I love a man with...

manners.


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

Rhea said:


> I love a man with...
> 
> manners.


yes ma'am


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

Rhea said:


> I love a man with...
> 
> manners.


then 

may i please


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## goatz (Jul 21, 2009)

He sounds pretty screwed up Heidi, that is quite the complex he seems to have. I understand why any form of control pisses you off. That isn't to say it should never be used for a positive purpose, you just got jerked around a lot. 

Here is a copy of a short book I wrote last year, Maybe you will see that I am not such a bad person. 

Depth of Soul

By DK


A simple book with a simple truth.

What darkness lies in the hearts of men? It is darker than the blackest black, but when the curtains are pulled away from the window to the soul the light that shall shine forth will blind the darkness, leaving no shadow untouched.

DK- 2008

All religious and political views in this book are my own, and not to be misunderstood, because the primary message is unity and love for a better life and world, this is fact. 
After writing this book, I discovered a book called “Power of Soul” with very similar characteristics and name but I assure you that I have never read this book nor was I aware of this book or its name when I wrote this one. Another book that is similar is “The Children of the Law of One and the Lost Teachings of Atlantis” which I started reading after completion of this book. I do not know where the thoughts for my book came from because I have never read any books like this before writing this one. These are things that I simply felt and decided to write, only to find out later that I wasn’t the only one who thought this way.
In this book I will explain a greater understanding of the world around you, how your life affects others, your spirituality and energies, how to bring peace into your life, the meaning of life, and a realistic approach to world peace. Some might say that I am a hopeless romantic but I think of myself as a hopeful romantic.
I am writing this book because humankind has fallen into a dark state and a never ending cycle of violence without thought or love. I wish for people to understand what it means to be human and connected with the universe and each other, to be at peace with yourself and the ones around you. I am not religious but do not criticize those who are, I just wish for people to understand that their creed is no more important to them than the next person, and there is always room for improvement. I am not racist nor should anyone be, people who are need to understand that this is a big problem and we can resolve it with love and an understanding of cultural differences. We can resolve our differences but people who thrive on negative energy wish to prevent that from happening whether they are aware of it or not, and they do quite a good job of it. 
I am scared to death of what is happening right now, if you do not know what I am talking about, you will soon find out. This book is an outcry to humanity for change, and not the type of change politicians talk about, for I believe the days for most of humanity may be numbered. 
Nothing about this book is ever intended to be religious, I wish my words to never be perverted, or associated with cultist ideals, and I simply want people to understand that these things are not something that need to be labeled but instead simply felt and known to be true and right.



Table of Contents
Chapter 1:	Our Differences separate us from our true goals.
Chapter 2: You vs. the world.
Chapter 3: The seven living virtues.
Chapter 4: Spirituality and you.
Chapter 5: Human nature and being inhuman and unnatural.
Chapter 6: Changing yourself.
Chapter 7: Separation anxieties.
Chapter 8: God!?
Chapter 9: Energy Heals.
Chapter 10: The meaning life…….?




Chapter 1: Our Differences separate us from our true goals.

What is our true goal, and by this I mean the goal of mankind. Peace, prosperity, discovery, fame, fortune, power? If you answered the first three your in for a treat, if you answered the latter three you are about to learn a lot. 
We need to be working for the same goals, and these goals do not include trying to make everyone follow a belief system, for this way is flawed and will bring the same problems that are occurring right now. If you are a white Christian family with three children, and a peaceful, black, gay, atheist, pro-choice couple moves next door to you, you would be distraught. If they invited you over for dinner would you go? Most likely you wouldn't. Why? If they told you that they wish to feed the hungry, stop the fighting, and help to bring about world peace, would you still deny them? Again; most likely. They have half of the same goals you do but still they are alienated by you. A named religion is a double edged sword. This is the core problem of the world. 
People put too much value in their personal beliefs while the major problems go unresolved. If I told you that you had to make a choice between world peace and ending hunger or ending gay marriages and abortion; the choice is clear. So with that said why are we still working against one another? The beauty of this is that you don't have to do anything for unity to happen; you only have to accept people for who they are without trying to change them. I am not trying to change you I am only trying to help you to change yourself if you wish. 
Our indifferences make us unique, and our attempt to coerce everyone to becoming like us will not work, it will only create more problems. Religion has a lot to offer though even though I myself am not religious, I see that most provide good foundations for people to follow, the Ten Commandments are a prime example of this, and these should be followed. Killing in most belief systems is the greatest taboo, and if we are so devout to stop the killing and the wars why do we allow others to do it, and by this I mean on a mass scale. Yet we do nothing because those in power convince us that it is for our own good, and those who follow lose their way. We should know better. Unity and understanding are the keys to human success, and we should throw the minor differences to the side.

Chapter 2: You vs. the world.

Another major problem! You vs. the world, why? There are lots of people struggling to get to the top of the power, fame, and riches mountains causing them to lose sense of themselves. They have forgotten who they are, they only know their personal goals, and most will step on anyone that gets in their way.
Here is a perfect example; A career minded woman in her mid 30's has a 2 year old child, who is raised by a nanny, is spoiled rotten when mommy gets home from the guilt knowing she never sees her child, let 
alone has time to spend with them. There is a maternal instinct to know and love your child, yet she fights against it for her own personal goals. This is very unhealthy both for the mother and the child, spiritually, mentally, and emotionally. She has a lot of money, and power in the place in which she works but is still not happy, she thinks she wants to get to the top when in reality she is unknowingly trying to satisfy her guilt, thinking that this is why she feels this way, and she drives on never satisfied and empty.
This brings me to my next topic. If you are addicted to something, it’s a medical condition and should be treated as such, right? Drugs, sex, and smoking come to mind? What about MONEY, the almighty, this is the most profound psychological addiction in the USA. More people spend time worshiping this than they do their own god or family. The desire for money will drive people to do horrible things, whether they kill or it keeps them from knowing their family because of it. Having the money makes them feel good for a while but what they don't know is the reason they feel bad in the first place. We must work for money because we are no longer a society that works in trade, so I'm not saying we should try and stop the money system. I'm only saying we need to treat money as just that, paper and numbers. It’s an idea that we abide by just like time.
Power is the next addiction; it kills, maims, and destroys without thought. No one person or group should ever have enough power to commit the horrible atrocities that have happened throughout history. These things can normally be worked out diplomatically now, so violence is the last resort and needs to be taken more seriously. It does nothing but hurt people, families, and countries. But if we all desire peace nobody would ever have to resort to such brutal things. Imagine this, pick the three most important people in your life and them being caught in the crossfire of a war they didn’t want, scared and crying wishing it would end, and then it does, because they are dead, and when your child dies are part of you does too. 
Now what if I told you they died because of someone's addiction to power, and money. Are these things still worth it? If you said yes, I have created an exercise for you. Take a pillow and place it over your face as hard as you can, now imagine you are the most important person in your life (child works best), and imagine how they would feel if they couldn't take the pillow off of their face like you can, you'll get just enough breath to keep you breathing for a minute or two but you will slowly lose all of your oxygen. You will never want them to feel this way, or anybody. When I tried this I ended up crying.



Chapter 3: The seven living virtues.
These virtues are the same but opposite of the seven deadly sins. Where you don't commit any of the seven deadly sins you must commit yourself to the seven living virtues. 

1. Empathy
Most would say love is the primary virtue, it is not. You must understand and relate to how others feel and they will do the same for you, this will affect how you judge others, and treat them. This virtue will make everything else fall into place. There is nothing pathetic about being empathetic. 

2. Love 
Love everyone even if they don't think like you, even if you don't like them, even if you don't know them. This doesn't mean you have to associate with them, it means that you wish them to be happy and find peace in their lives. Just your will and wishes for people will affect how their lives turn out.





3. Kindness
Your heart is like a bank and the currency is kindness so feel free to spend it on others, because the interest accumulated is exponential. This simple concept can enrich everyone’s lives.

4. Truth
Always acknowledge truth and never be dissuaded, for if you lose truth you lose yourself. Discovering truth is half the battle for a better world. When you finally know truth, you will know yourself.


5. Respect
Respect yourself, others, and the world around you. Respect goes beyond just being tolerant; you must take into account how your actions affect yourself, others, and the world around you. Understand how your actions affect the other people on your planet, including the amount of children you have. Overpopulation is a real problem, and I understand that it is a sensitive topic, but it puts a heavy strain on food, society, and the planet. Shake hands with your enemy and ask for forgiveness from those you have hurt, then you will start to open up in a ways you never thought you could.


6. Connect
Connect with yourself, others, and the Earth. You must connect on all 
four levels, physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually. This will give you a greater understanding of all things.

7. Peace
Find peace in all aspects of your life and share it with others. Through this you will find harmony within yourself.

Chapter 4: Spirituality and you.

Your spirit, soul, ki, chi, chakra, prana, mana, life force, whatever you want to call it can be easily summed up to what it is. Energy, pure energy, is all around us, in us, and ever flowing. It is part of god, but I believe god to be a form of energy that connects us all, and our spirit is part of him. Its will is the will of the people connected to it, so if the world is full of violence it will continue because that is our will, when we get sick of the fighting and want it to stop it will because that is what we desire.
Imagine that everyone on the planet is connected to every individual with a string and at the end of the string is a cup to speak through. The further you are away the more difficult it will be to hear them, but we are not speaking with sound just energy, and right now most people can only do this through their subconscious, so its a weak subliminal message. People are more powerful than they are aware of and just being aware of this fact is enough to make changes in your life.
If we want to go from string and cup to fiber optic phone, we need to strengthen our spirit it too will get stronger with training just like muscles and minds. Those with stronger spirits will be heard louder and those with weak spirits will hear it as strongly subliminal. If we combine strong spirit with unified desire what we wish to happen will happen without a doubt. We don't actually have to say anything; just our intention and wishes are enough to make it happen. Faith healing is a perfect example of this. Why do you think faith healers perform in large crowds instead of privately; it’s because they know the power of intention. If everyone in the room wishes that person to be healed and believes it will happen, that person will be healed.
Some believe that there has to be balance in the universe Yin vs. Yang but I think many people misunderstand the meaning of this. Just because I didn’t kill someone yesterday doesn’t mean I should today. This is a universal balance that shouldn’t be misconstrued by including equal amounts of negative and positive in our social works.


Chapter 5: Human nature and being inhuman and unnatural.

While writing this book I had a discussion with a coworker who told me that violence and selfishness are part of human nature. I cannot deny this, but being kind and generous are also parts of human nature. It is the individual who chooses the path to walk, but unfortunately environmental factors play a part in the choosing of the path. So we must change the environment in which we exist in order to bring out qualities that will nurture children as well as adults so that better qualities are brought out. Violent video games/TV/music, mindless television, and lack of parental interaction, are large factors in environmental problems. 
We should not deny our primitive instincts or nature but we may choose what nature we are, some would make it sound as though our primitive instincts are just that but there are reasons for them, self preservation and the preservation of our offspring are some of them, and should never be denied. Without these we would never have made it this far. So embrace your instincts, and understanding and bettering your nature will make you more aware of your spirit and more empathetic to others.
To be inhuman is to deny all that is human about you. If a politician is inhuman why do we allow them to stay there, because we don’t have a choice? If we simply refuse to follow them or do as they wished, we take away their power. If they instill fear in us we do not let our hearts waver but instead stand strong against their bad nature. Those who wish to harm us for their own personal gain whether it be a politician or a burglar are nothing more than tyrants and should be dealt with as such. 

Chapter: 6 Changing yourself.

Changing your self will take time but changing is better for you, and the love of those around you should drive you to complete that change. I live in WV but before I moved here I was asked “why would you want to move there with all of those stupid one toothed hillbillies”! I found that to be quite rude especially considering that we lived near Detroit which is one of the most ruthless lawless cities in the world, and full of pollution to boot. I am glad I got away from most of that mentality; it was more polluting to me and the minds of my children, than all the factories were on my body. The people here are mostly kind and generous. We have money and drive nice vehicles. Its quiet and the school systems are wonderful and getting better all of the time.
If you continue to say things like; Oh my god look what she is wearing, or look at that dumb Mexican picking beans, or laughing at poor people and the needy, and picking on overweight people; you will never change. So the first step is to stop saying those things, and when you do this you will stop convincing yourself these things are true, which will intern stop you from thinking like that anymore. 
Some of you most likely have self-image problems. These are internal problems, not external. They exist within your mind, emotion, and spirit. If you are overweight and feel unhealthy this is a little different. Here is a diet plan I made and lost 75 pounds, and you don’t have to work out, or eat like a rabbit. Start by getting rid of your microwave, it’s too easy to prepare food and if you are truly hungry you’ll do it the old fashioned way. Then stop eating processed foods, this includes fast food, canned meals and soups, and frozen meals. Lastly make sure 50%+ of what you eat is vegetable matter. Oh, so you don’t have time for all of that, you either do this or die 5+ years sooner. You need to break the cycle of convience.
People lately with the war in Iraq and now thoughts of Iran looming over us, simply say “we should just turn that place into a parking lot.” Sounds like a quick way to end the war, right, let’s just nuke it. Let’s consider the people living there though; most of them don’t want this war any more than we do. So we should just incinerate innocent women, children, and men in the blink of an eye so we can wash our hands of it. Imagine that the USA was invaded by a foreign country, and in a far off land everyone just wanted to nuke you and your family so they didn’t have to deal with it anymore. How would you feel?
So you absolutely must stop thinking in a negative manner and start thinking in the mindset of the seven living virtues. If you continue on this path it will only lead to self destruction. With this there is a snowball affect; what affects you affects those around you, so keep that in mind. It affects others around you through your thoughts and intentions also. For example, have you ever had a coworker who came in with a bad attitude, didn’t say anything or bother anyone but you could tell they were having a bad day? Then within an hour or so you started making mistakes and having small arguments and it seemed as though everyone around them was having a bad day? I have, and this is the power of thought and intention being aware of this can prevent those things from happening to you, but if you think in a positive manner and want them to have a good day their day will improve. 
So be aware of the energy around you, and stop thinking in a negative manner are the two steps you must follow and everything will fall into place. When this happens good things will start happening to you, and others will feel your positive intention and thought and also increase their positive thoughts and continue passing it on.

Chapter: 7 Separation anxieties.

Separating yourself from what you know and taking yourself from your comfort zone is a scary thing, but if you want to enrich yourself this must be done, and you will be glad you did. Most people are comfortable where they are at in their mentally, but do you think that is where you should be? I understand that after everything I have talked about it may be difficult to take it all in, but I believe in you as a fellow human being. This we must overcome.
Find truth deep within yourself and it will become easier to make the change, for you know what is true so don’t deny it, or you will only continue to deny yourself. If nothing else; do it for the ones you love, if you have no one you love, you will find that this change will make you love. Also know that as a fellow human being I also love you, it sounds strange when you tell someone that you love them, but why should we only love the ones around us? We treat the ones we love kindly, do we not? If you find love in everyone, everyone would be much kinder.
Like I said earlier find empathy, and this transformation shall become reality. Share these words with others and they too may change for the better.

Chapter 8: God!?

The great question of does god exist. The short answer is yes. Every religion has an icon that they worship, some similar, some very different. What if I said that these icons all come from the same source? The source being all of the energy around and within you. Jesus I believe was human through and through, but he was a child of the light with an innate ability to tap into the universal life energy and the wisdom contained within it. So in a sense he was godlike but not the literal son of god. It’s the same for all of the major icons in religion.
God does not have to have a personality or figure to exist. God is the source of life in this plane and others, the life energy and his will is our will. By this I mean; when we ask, “why must such horrible things happen to good people”, because we don’t care, don’t care to know, or prefer it that way. It was the will of the people of Jerusalem to have a hero to stand up against the Romans. So Jesus was born from this will. Jewish people are normally passive, and were tired of violence, so this hero was born in the people’s image, of their will, of god’s will its all the same.
When we understand that most religions with one god are all speaking of the same god, we can be at peace with other religions. Know that no one religion is either wholly right or wrong. Christian, Catholics, and Jews all worship the same god but only the ways that they perceive god are different. We fight over a perception of a truth that no one person can fully comprehend, but we wish to think that we are the right ones, so further hate and fighting resume over a philosophical ideology. We pretend as though god has a human face and therefore a human personality. When we believe that god is more human than a god so we can justify killing for him. When we say that we serve god but do terrible things in his name, we only serve ourselves. Serving god does not mean forcing your beliefs on other people, this is only a means of control. To serve god you must do one thing, and that is to love all and everything truly, without hesitations, without selfish reasons, and from your heart. Is it right that missionaries will only feed those who convert to their religion whilst others starve? Can we not feed those who are hungry because they suffer? We put contingencies on everything, again very selfish and self serving.
I want to touch on a subject that is taboo a little but is not meant to offend but instead enlighten. Do you think Jesus would condone the way we treat people today, that we should push our beliefs on others. Do you think that he would want death and destruction caused in his name? The holy crusades slaughtered millions in the name of Jesus, is this what he would have wanted, his name tainted with blood? Even today it happens in Christ’s name, if you live by his name you must abide by his will. If you do not your beliefs are empty and self serving. This applies to all belief systems, but I chose Christianity because of its widespread popularity and dogmatic abuse.
Most religions preach peace and love, yet do the opposite. If you told someone you didn’t know in your congregation that you love them ,they and others would think your very strange. Why? Because most will think that you mean it in a lustful way. Love does not have to be lustful, it can simply be love, like you love a relative. Love is wishing the best for someone, hoping that they are safe, wanting them to have meaning in their lives, not wanting anything bad to happen to them, etc. This is what love is, but to tell someone that is how you feel about them is too strange and different for them to understand. I love all, those reading this book, those I don’t know, even those in prison. Even though I am not yet enlightened I feel it coming and with it comes wisdom and a greater understanding of truth. Will this design not heal relationships between people, countries, and religions too? It is so simple that it contiues to elude most. Don’t let this opportunity to discover truth and help heal humanity pass you by.

Chapter 9: Energy heals.

Energy healing is real, the media laughs and scoffs at it, thus convincing most it is worthless and a sham. I feel sorry for all of those who will never have the opportunity to be healed without drugs or surgery. Of coarse modern medicine still has it’s uses. If you are shot, stabbed, or break your leg you need to go to the hospital, I also cannot tell you not to seek the advice of a medical professional. Energy healing can relieve pain, straighten backs, fix emotional problems, cure infections including HIV (not just AIDS), cure various illnesses associated with the brain and nervous system, and cure cancer; yes I said cancer. 
My wife suffered from severe depression, and bipolar disorder for 12 years and I took her to an energy healer that I work with for problems with her back. I would have never imagined that after 3 sessions not only was her back better but the depression was gone, I mean completely gone! It could be like this for everyone, I hear a lot of people say that their illness is to severe for energy healing which tells me that not many people realize the true power of it.
There are many modalities of energy healing, such as Jin Shin Jyutsu which was what my wife was treated with (thanks PhillBilly), Quantum Touch, Reiki, acupuncture, faith healing, acupressure, Qigong, prayer, and faith healing, just to name a few. If you are extremely ill and have no where to turn but god, heed my advice and spend $50 to $100 (some will even do it for free), it could save your life. The best part is anyone can do them, it doesn’t take special people, so get it done, and then you too will want to learn how to do it, just like my wife who recently started learning Quantum Touch and healed my sleep apnea after the first day of study!

Chapter 10: Truth in the meaning of life.

This is a topic which is very rarely spoken about because of the complex and tender nature of it and when it is spoken about it is usually associated with a religion. So what is the meaning of life? This is a question that only the individual can answer. For every life has a different meaning. The question is not so simple that it encompasses every being. The meaning in your life is the meaning of life.
So if you cannot answer the question on your own, we’ll start with an exercise. There are some things you have to keep in mind while doing this exercise. If it’s something selfish, lustful, or hurts others, your already wrong. So start by closing your eyes, and breathing deeply. Now smile, a real smile, and think about everything that makes you happy. Now imagine that all of those things are taken out of your life, or go horribly wrong. The ones that leave a pit in your stomach and/or make you tear up, are most likely the meaning of life, for you that is.
Now that you have found your meaning of life, what does it mean? Will you strive to make sure that all is well and improve it, or continue on a self destructive path? Most will say that their family is what was chosen, others may have chosen peace, love, and unity. However there are a select few whose thoughts remain dark, this exercise may enrage them, because they are unable to find real meaning in their lives, or the only meanings they can find are negative. These are the dark souls, the ones that humanity must be aware of. They will reign with chaos because their greed and desire knows no bounds and would gladly trade the lives of others to meet their goals.
So in conclusion, who are you? Are you a being of light or a being of darkness? What is your meaning and purpose? Will you change for those you love, become an example for your family and loved ones? Do you want to know peace and rediscover yourself? I have given you the tools but it is up to you to use them. Enjoy your own religion but share the love and humanitarian ideas with those around you. Peace be with you, and thank you for reading this book.

All are welcome to tell me what they think so this book may evolve as we evolve. I would not be fair for me not to include others in the creation of this book. Nor would it be fair for me to ask for money for this book, although I will accept donations so I may spend more time for this endeavor.

E-mail me if you wish, I only ask to keep verbal abuse and grammatical criticism to yourself.

DK
[email protected]


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

goatz said:


> All are welcome to tell me what they think so this book may evolve as we evolve. I would not be fair for me not to include others in the creation of this book. Nor would it be fair for me to ask for money for this book, although I will accept donations so I may spend more time for this endeavor.
> 
> E-mail me if you wish, I only ask to keep verbal abuse and grammatical criticism to yourself.
> 
> ]



so it's not fair to ask for money but it's ok to ask for donations.

ok.

as for editing grammatical errors, you can't afford me.

and you still haven't posted re: manipulation exists or not.

but no doubt you look good in your spandex tights and cape.


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## carmaenforcer (Mar 7, 2008)

*Nobody123*


> -everyone is trying to influence and maneuver others in a certain way.


It makes the world go around, so to speak. Governments do it to the people of their nations, Churches and religious organizations do it, Drug companies do it, soda companies do it, Parents do it.




> -There is nothing wrong with it as long as the intention is not ill-conceived and the end results are meant for the greater good.


Manifest Destiny, the conqueror does it and justifies it as progress a positive in the long run or overall scheme of things as interpreted by the person benefiting from it of coarse. 




> -To be able to understand and influence others in a positive manner is a strong attribute in leadership or any relationship.


If one person is willing to concede to the others coarse of action and philosophy and it's the best thing to do for both, then that's great.
The problem with applying this model of an established head (leader) to a romantic relationship, is that both people want to be the boss and push their agenda or want their perspective to be equally as important as the others.

A better comparison is that of two separate countries reaching a peace agreement or better yet a union or coalition working towards a compromise on differing view points, while respecting the rights of the other to retain their sovereignty and cooperating towards common goal that benefits both parties.




> -It is like training a dog; you can either beat the crap out of it or reinforce the good behavior but in the end, you want the dog to associate consequences with its actions so it will eventually do what you wish.


I don't know about applying the "like training a dog" analogy to a person, because I think that's where in we reach a stumbling block. Although the positive reinforcement (reward) and negative consequences (punishment) model, is a proven successful tool in the conditioning, training or brainwashing of a person or animal. It doesn't work as well with a creature that can pick up and leave (has an easy way out of it) than with a captive subject. 
In addition, an intelligent creature or one with a slightly less evolved cognizance can still be manipulated, you need only figure out what works with the subject. 




> -You can control yourself all day long but in any relationship, since it is a two way street so if your partner or your dog doesn’t see your point, it is entirely pointless.


Having the same goals and expectations out of life, can is arguably the ideal scenario when attempting/planning to share/make a life with someone. None the less an argument can still be made that, it's the trials and differences that one overcomes and the compromises and sacrifices one makes in the coarse of a "life" together that makes a "marriage".




> -if you leave either hubby or puppy to come to his/its own realization what they should be doing, you might be wasting a lifetime on a mission never taken off.


This is true and it works both ways. It's your job to lobby your agenda and fight your cause, it's your mates job to do the same for theirs. The quicker you can find and hold your ground the quicker you can enjoy the rewards that come from a peaceful and loving, relaxed relationship.


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## SociopathicInLaws (Jul 25, 2009)

Wow! That might just be the longest comment I've ever seen! Nice Job!


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## goatz (Jul 21, 2009)

forgot to delete the donation thing before I posted


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

No no ... where do i send my donations? i have three piles of perfection for ya 

You know, reading the topic of this post - "Manipulation, it's not what you think" 

WOW! EPIPHANY! 

He's RIGHT! 

it's NOT what I think! It's what the Goatz thinks... duh... 

ok, class dismissed, we can all go home now.


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## goatz (Jul 21, 2009)

My paypal is [email protected]. Feel free to send all of your closed minded comments there in monetary form.


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

goatz said:


> My paypal is [email protected]. Feel free to send all of your closed minded comments there in monetary form.


close minded.

oh you are the gift that keeps on giving,

we'll put 'closed minded' aside as a self explanatory joke for the moment and instead focus on thus:

it's unfair to ask for donations

but it's ok to ask for money

you apologise for forgetting 'to delete the donation thingy'

and then post your pay pal account to receive donations

or money.

it is encouraging that your logic in this matter is consistent with your definitive logic.


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## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

Well, got to give Goatz this...he's taking the flak and keeps on giving.  

Seriously, though...everyone manipulates others in one form or another. That's life. I think the "issue" here is the term "manipulation". It sounds like mind control, brainwashing. 

It's not.


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## goatz (Jul 21, 2009)

dcrim said:


> Seriously, though...everyone manipulates others in one form or another. That's life. I think the "issue" here is the term "manipulation". It sounds like mind control, brainwashing.
> 
> It's not.


Thank you.

The short book I put up is still a work in progress, and I wrote it for free I haven't charged anything for it. Of coarse it isn't finished yet. The donations thing was in there but I did not mean to post it.

The reason I reposted it was out of sheer sarcasim; it was a joke. I guess you really are closed minded.

How about when I say manipulation you think of all of these words too: operation, handling, management, use, guidance, influence, employment, running, control, maneuvering, exploitation, persuasion, wheeler-dealing, scheming, capitalizing on


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

YAWN.... what is obvious, Goatz, is that eventually you will need a good editor.

Why are you, as an unpublished author, so against close mindedness?

Perhaps a more elegant phrasing of your ideas would be a bit more palatable to the general populous. You are, indeed "coarse".

Good luck.


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## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

I'M CLOSED MINDED?!? 

You will be very hard pressed to find someone with a more open mind!


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