# Why do Some Women Stay With Abusive Men?



## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

This question really bothers me.

I have spoken to lots of women and I'm unable to get a logical answer.
Met a friend of mine in the gym yesterday and she confessed to me that her husband beats her.
She had to do corrective surgery on her nose because he fractured it.
She's young,well educated ,has a good job and very beautiful.
Yet she suffers in silence.

Another friend of mine, upper class .A high level manager for a very large company, 1000+ employees.
Three daughters , one with a degree in English , the other a psychology major and the thrid just 10 years old.
Abusive husband, EVERYBODY knows. The man is a complete a$$hole. He works nowhere. SHE PAYS THE MORTGAGE , and they live in an upper class " gated community " area. House is worth millions.
I once told her over 10 years ago, that even though she's accepting his abuse ,she needs to " man up " because her daughters might suffer the same fate.
Her prettiest daughter , a psychology major, seems to have gotten
" the curse ." Bright girl,but she is always attracted to men who abuse her physically and sexually. She's a bit on the wild side. She once allowed herself to be filmed having a threesome, when she was just 20 yrs old. Shyt hit the fan and the clip was " released ." Her mom saw it and she almost had a mental breakdown.
I knew her daughters since they were kids. I remember talking to the daughter after the incident, asking her one question.
"..K....., why do you allow men to do you these things..?"
She looked at me with tears in her eyes and replied ;
"..I don't know.."
She is now back " in love" with one of her old boyfriends who used to beat her....
_The never ending cycle of abuse._
Why?


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## BrookeT (Nov 3, 2012)

I am am woman, and I honestly have no idea either. I know a few women in similar situations, my own mother being one of them. The cycle didn't continue to me though, I have never been hit or abused by my Husband at all. 

I will say this though, men who hit women should have thier balls cut off and shoved down thier own throats until they choke on them and die.


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## confused_in_ca (Nov 20, 2012)

I have no idea when it is physical violence, which for most people is an obvious deal breaker.
However some people I've known claim that it starts subtly, escalates gradually and by then her self worth has been so eroded. Or she is afraid to leave because that is often when violence can really escalate.


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## bjornmarriage (Nov 24, 2012)

Well as a guy married to an Abusive woman I can understand how women feel with abusive male partners. It is horrible. They say sorry, they promise never to do it again, yet it happens again again. Why stay, in my case a small child. I would rather put up with her attacks, which usually are minor scratches to my arms and the occasional bruise, than see my boy sad that his parents have separated. 
You never stop loving the partner who beats on you, its really odd. Anyone, seeing the relationship from the outside would say get out immediately! But its not that simple.


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## bjornmarriage (Nov 24, 2012)

confused_in_ca said:


> I have no idea when it is physical violence, which for most people is an obvious deal breaker.
> However some people I've known claim that it starts subtly, escalates gradually and by then her self worth has been so eroded. Or she is afraid to leave because that is often when violence can really escalate.


I agree, if I ever threaten to leave, she threatens to harm herself


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

As a woman who was in an abusive relationship and left, I do not know why women stay. Yes, it's hard to leave. Yes, it's hard to get back on your feet. Yes, it's hard to feel worthy again. But it's doable and it's a HELL of a lot better than stayin in that mess.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

bjornmarriage said:


> *You never stop loving the partner who beats on you, its really odd. *


Interesting point of view.
I think I see your point.

But let me ask a question. When you say love, do you mean like love that person in a way that you feel sorry for them ?
In other words,
Do you the victim also see them as a type of victim in a different sense ?


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## Viseral (Feb 25, 2011)

Caribbean Man said:


> This question really bothers me.
> 
> I have spoken to lots of women and I'm unable to get a logical answer.
> Met a friend of mine in the gym yesterday and she confessed to me that her husband beats her.
> ...


Because women are hard-wired to be attracted to dominant men rather than beta "nice guys" and violence sometimes comes with the territory.

Throughout human history, women would rather share an alpha male with other women than settle for a beta. Genetic research has found that before the modern era, 80% of women managed to reproduce, but only 40% of men did. The obvious conclusion is that a few top men had multiple wives while the bottom 60% had no mating prospects at all.

It's primal my man. Why do you think so many violent men in prison still attract women. There are even websites now to hook women up with prisoners.


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## bjornmarriage (Nov 24, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> Interesting point of view.
> I think I see your point.
> 
> But let me ask a question. When you say love, do you mean like love that person in a way that you feel sorry for them ?
> ...


I guess its a love that you have known them for so long, you know all those little things that make them special under that angry violent side. I am not sure if she is a victim when its all one sided.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

bjornmarriage said:


> I guess its a love that you have known them for so long, you know all those little things that make them special under that angry violent side. I am not sure if she is a victim when its all one sided.


Ok,
Understood.
But what I meant by her being a " victim" is more like a victim of her own circumstance.
She is unable to control her anger like any " normal " person does, probable because of childhood issues etc. so you feel sorry for her and view her as a victim.

Sometimes that happens to some women. In the second example I gave in the original post, the woman told me that her husband had a rough childhood. He was abandoned and abused etc. 
She feels " sorry" for him ,and after over three decades of marriage, still feel that she could " fix " him.

Funny thing is that years ago she could have left, but she thought of her two girls,so she stayed.

Then she got pregnant wit the third daughter.......
Things are so bad now that she's contemplated suicide.


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## bjornmarriage (Nov 24, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> Ok,
> Understood.
> But what I meant by her being a " victim" is more like a victim of her own circumstance.
> She is unable to control her anger like any " normal " person does, probable because of childhood issues etc. so you feel sorry for her and view her as a victim.
> ...


I guess you could say that. She did suffer bullying from other women at a International University, I would say she has some form of PTSD. She does target me for her own unhappiness. I just put up with it


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

But do you think that maybe she could be fixed?
Like with professional help?


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

It's not just a female vs male thing, abused men stay too. 
They don't leave for the same reasons people don't leave cheating spouses, because they "love" them more than they love themselves.
In a normal, healthy relationship, there are boundaries of what is acceptable behavior from both involved, when a person has a skewed sense of self, they did not develop those same boundaries.
Without those boundaries in place, they will allow their partner to beat them, cheat on them, steal from, etc, all in the name of love.
I do believe these issues stem from childhood, where they never learned to love right, where there could have been little to no love shown towards them.
Then they meet the abuser or cheater, the first one to show them love & they can't get enough, they are willing to go through hell, just so they can stay with that person, because they showed them love, however skewed that version of love maybe.


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## bjornmarriage (Nov 24, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> But do you think that maybe she could be fixed?
> Like with professional help?


We have tried two psychologists, both failed to notice that she just sat there agreeing with everything they said and the fact she didnt pay any attention to the suggestions they made. She just shuts down with psychologists. Its been 7 years, I doubt she can be fixed


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

I'm sure the reasons vary, but my guess is mostly due to low self esteem, no self respect, etc. If you have been in an abusive situation, then after awhile you tart to believe you are worthless and can do no better than what you're already in. Some people believe they may get into something far worse if they leave. Many people actually justify why they stay, by saying things like, "But he is good to me at times", or "he buys me things, or he doesn't mean to, he is just stressed." Most people in abusive relationships will try to make excuses at some point for the other persons behavior. Same with people who stay with people who have addictions. 

Money issues, and kids might be another reason in their mind as well. People who have been abused are usually so torn and damaged emotionally/mentally they no longer even think straight at times, and start to believe they deserve the treatment the are getting. 

Its sad.


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

bjornmarriage said:


> I agree, if I ever threaten to leave, she threatens to harm herself


Wow thats awful! BUT, its also a control thing for her when she does this. I'm not saying she would or wouldn't actually try it, BUT you are not responsible for what she does. You have to understand you're dealing with a person who is sick. That doesn't mean you have to stay, you're not her caretaker. 

Even if she did attempt that, or even succeeded if you left, I'm sure in your mind you would be eat up with guilt, thinking if you had stayed you could have prevented it, nope wrong. Whether you stay or go, it doesn't change the fact she is a sick individual who needs serious help.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

bjornmarriage said:


> We have tried two psychologists, both failed to notice that she just sat there agreeing with everything they said and the fact she didnt pay any attention to the suggestions they made. She just shuts down with psychologists. Its been 7 years, I doubt she can be fixed



Wow,
I understand it better now.
That's a difficult position to be in. 
If I were in your same , exact position, I'm not sure if I would have left or stayed.
Must be torture to live with.
How do you think this affects your kid?
[It it a boy or girl?]


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## confused_in_ca (Nov 20, 2012)

The other reason I have heard, including with my own mom was that the bad still outweighed the good. In her mind at least.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Over time, someone can smash someone so low, that the person actually believes they are worthless, spineless, helpless, etc.

When I met my ex, I was vivacious, social, intelligent, sexual, everything. I was 21. I left him when I was 25 and I felt like a piece of crap. I felt stupid, worthless, 2nd class citizen...

And it started out like this:

(After a social event):

Him: Hey, I heard you talking about x,y,z with some people tonight
Me: Yes! It was fascinating! Those theories are fun to bounce around.
Him: You sounded like an idiot. You don't know enough to talk about that without sounding like a fool.
Me: *quiet*

_____

(Out on a date with him)

Me: (talking about something I believed in/thought)
Him: It's people like you who make this world a ****ty place to live in. Your theories and ideas are horrible and would only condemn the human race.
Me: Uh... *quiet*

(Before a social gathering)

Him: There will be smart people here tonight. Don't go embarrassing yourself. Keep your mouth shut and don't leave my side.
Me: Ok. *quiet*


_____________

It was a process over months. I was pregnant too, so that didn't help. I felt trapped and completely devalued and invalidated 

Our sex life was horrible too.

Me: hey...wanna....???
Him: You're such a simple minded person. F*cking, food and sh*tting is your life, huh? Fine, I'll eff you. Hurry up.
Me: *quiet*

____
About my art:

Me: Look! (showing him something)
Him: Eh, it's amateur at best. 
Me: I like it.
Him: You would. It's simple. like you.

I didn't do art for years.

Then one day...I had enough. He called me a C-U-N-T infront of our child and that was it. I decided to leave. I got my shet in order and had support from friends (friends who had been BEGGING me to leave because they saw the shell of the person I was)...and finally left. Moved out. I fell into our mutual friend's arms, but whatever. I don't regret it. After years of being treated like scum, it was wonderful to hear someone tell me how alive they felt by being near me. It took me about 3 years to build myself back up. Then I realized it was not ME who had the problem, but it was HIM all along.


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

I'll give you my pov, but I'm not sure its a good answer to your q as stbxh and I are separated. My therapist described my relationship as abusive; I haven't been able to accept that it is, but if it felt like abuse, I believe I'd walk away without looking back. I've never understood why people stay with spouses who physically beat them; for me, that's the line.

Poor boundaries. A flawed sense of the purpose of resilience or loyalty. Seeing what's there beyond the nasty and wishing the good would prevail. A feeling of connection that ignores logic. Desire. Unconditional love for him but maybe not for myself?

My stbxh didn't batter me, but took his anger out on me verbally and manipulated and intimidated anytime he felt a loss of self-control. It upset me and hurt me, but it wasn't a deal breaker for me because there were more good times than bad, the good outweighed the bad in magnitude, because he was the only person with whom I've actually felt a deep connection in my life, because I let hoping that things would get back to being good if I earned it. The deal breaker for me was cheating and treating my family with disrespect. If he had ever been physically violent and abusive, I would have been gone. Emotional abuse is more insidious, harder to define and accept, sometimes.

I never pitied him. I still love him. If he showed me remorse and change, I'd take him back. I don't think he will take ownership of his actions and keeping my distance is my only way of showing that i don't want such behavior to continue. yet, my feelings for him often overlook his bad behavior. Love should be all the good things, but for some people, love is more mangled, I guess ...


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## Ina (Dec 3, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> This question really bothers me.
> 
> I have spoken to lots of women and I'm unable to get a logical answer.?


you are looking for something that I'm not sure exists. There is not necessarily logic to staying in abusive relationships. It is not as easy as if A hits B then B should leave. These matters are complex and reasons for staying can range from individual issues to societal and cultural ones. What I do know to be true is this (and I speak to women as victims bc that was the example in your post, men are victims as well but I believe their reasons for staying vary greatly from that of women.)
A woman's choice to leave does not correlate with the end of abuse. In many cases abuse escalates during times of separation. The "system" is imperfect when it comes to protecting women from violence. Women often lose their children after leaving an abusive relationship. 

I try not to judge women who are victims of their partners abuse rather I attempt to empower them and remind them of their strength (something that is consistently stripped from them). These women you encounter should be reminded that they and they alone have power over themselves and should be provided with genuine support however they choose to use it.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

confused_in_ca said:


> The other reason I have heard, including with my own mom was that the bad still outweighed the good. In her mind at least.


Is that supposed to go like;
"..the good still outweighed the bad.."

Anyway, yes .
Almost in every case I've heard that.
I usually interpret it to mean,
" ..Its not really a deal breaker for me.."

But what do you thing really goes on in the mind of a woman in such a situation?
I know every case is different, but there are striking similarities.
What I also find frightening in the cases I have mentioned, is that those guys who abuse their wives were not substance abusers.
They are " normal" men. They just get enraged at times and sometimes beat, curse, emotionally abuse their wives.
Its like a mental disease.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

bjornmarriage said:


> Well as a guy married to an Abusive woman I can understand how women feel with abusive male partners. It is horrible. They say sorry, they promise never to do it again, yet it happens again again. Why stay, in my case a small child. I would rather put up with her attacks, which usually are minor scratches to my arms and the occasional bruise, than see my boy sad that his parents have separated.
> You never stop loving the partner who beats on you, its really odd. Anyone, seeing the relationship from the outside would say get out immediately! But its not that simple.


I could mean ALOT to your son's future tho. You are teaching your boy that this is what marriage looks like. Instead of showing him an independent, SANE father. JMO, but I think staying for the kid is worse than leaving for the kid. I'd gather evidence, then leave WITH the kid.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

It's not a disease. It's insecurities. It's not maturing emotionally. hindsight is 20/20 and I can see now that my ex was just a very immature individual...so he needed to keep me super low so he could feel above it all.

But, joke's on him because my life is going great now. He'll tell me how proud he is of me, that he never thought I had it in me. :rofl: Gawd. I remember him telling me I was a bad mother, that I was crazy, that I needed help, that I should be on meds....and looking back, he was just PROJECTING like mad. I was fine. He had issues.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

moxy said:


> I'll give you my pov, but I'm not sure its a good answer to your q as stbxh and I are separated. *My therapist described my relationship as abusive; I haven't been able to accept that it is, but if it felt like abuse, I believe I'd walk away without looking back.* I've never understood why people stay with spouses who physically beat them; for me, that's the line.


Thanks for your input.

However, 
It is important to note that abuse can be defined as any type of treatment metered out to a person which is below the acceptable norm and designed to inflict any type of humiliation or pain.

So your therapist is right!
A lot of victims don't actually see their situation as abuse until they hit rock bottom.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

He never hit me, but he would scream right in my face and throw shet and break things. He'd flip out over the dumbest things. I suspect he was cheating because he'd go out and I was never allowed to go. He wasn't "into labels" so he would never introduce me as his girlfriend. I wasn't allowed to decorate the house, I wasn't allowed to eat meat. I wasn't allowed to do anything but what he wanted and allowed.

Gawd. Enough talk about this time of my life. Yuck.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Ina said:


> I try not to judge women who are victims of their partners abuse rather I attempt to empower them and remind them of their strength (something that is consistently stripped from them). These women you encounter should be reminded that they and they alone have power over themselves and should be provided with genuine support however they choose to use it.


I always try to point them in that direction.Believe me,we have soooooo many of these places where counselling is free, shelter is free, legal representation is free.
Some years ago there was a prominent female lawyer who was involved in an abusive relationship with another MARRIED male colleague. He shot and killed her and then killed himself.
When the details came out, her family said that they tried to help her but she was hopelessly in love with this man.
Everytime they tried, she went back to him.
She's a lawyer, she had money, her family was rich, she practised in one of our country most prestigious chambers.
She could have migrated and lived in the UK, but she refused their efforts to help her, and she kept going right back to him.

That is what puzzles me.


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## bjornmarriage (Nov 24, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> Wow,
> I understand it better now.
> That's a difficult position to be in.
> If I were in your same , exact position, I'm not sure if I would have left or stayed.
> ...


Yeah, my boy is 5 and is noticing how crazy she gets. He is aware there is tension,  he always asking us to sit next to each other and I can see he isnt happy with the situation. The most devastating thing is he has seen her hit me. I can never forgive her for leaving that memory with him. She wont harm him, so dont worry about that.
I should leave, but I have major exams coming up and I really need to pass them. Trying to keep the peace until they are over. IF I pass them, its a major career move which will allow me more financial flexability and make my boys life better.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

My friend went to a shelter to get away.

Her husband found her and beat her up.

Nice. 

Some people are just scared. Until you are in their shoes, it's best not to say what you *would* do.


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## Ina (Dec 3, 2012)

Viseral said:


> Because women are hard-wired to be attracted to dominant men rather than beta "nice guys" and violence sometimes comes with the territory.
> 
> Throughout human history, women would rather share an alpha male with other women than settle for a beta. Genetic research has found that before the modern era, 80% of women managed to reproduce, but only 40% of men did. The obvious conclusion is that a few top men had multiple wives while the bottom 60% had no mating prospects at all.
> 
> It's primal my man. Why do you think so many violent men in prison still attract women. There are even websites now to hook women up with prisoners.



I cannot resist responding to this post. I will only say that being "dominant" or "alpha" does not equate to being abusive. In fact I would find an abusive man to be insecure and inferior. Most men can overpower me physically, not many can challenge me in other ways. Luckily I found one and he married me, his alpha male chooses to protect, respect, and love me. This type of dominance I can surrender to.


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> Thanks for your input.
> 
> However,
> It is important to note that abuse can be defined as any type of treatment metered out to a person which is below the acceptable norm and designed to inflict any type of humiliation or pain.
> ...


Very true. I guess my post was a long-winded way of saying that the reason I didn't walk away from it at first was because I didn't see it as abuse. I suspect that many women in relationships with abusive dynamics just don't accept that the relationship is what it is. I'm not defending my perspective. I think that bad habits can only be broken when the person with the bad habit realizes the behavior is both habitual and harmful. If you can't see a problem, how do you step away from it?


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

moxy said:


> . I think that bad habits can only be broken when the person with the bad habit realizes the behavior is both habitual and harmful.* If you can't see a problem, how do you step away from it?*


:iagree:
Maybe that's the answer?
Maybe you are correct,the actually don't see it as a problem because they become conditioned to the abuse.
I'm just guessing here.
Maybe they become conditioned because of the environment they grew up in. They saw certain type of treatment as
" acceptable " or normal and they never really analysed it?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Ya, it's definitely difficult to admit that you are being abused. It's humiliating and embarrassing. You don't want to admit that you chose a POS man. You think it's just how things are. Abusers aren't stupid. They throw some crumbs your way so you think they just get in "moods" sometimes.

Eff.

That.

Never since, never again.


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## Ina (Dec 3, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> I always try to point them in that direction.Believe me,we have soooooo many of these places where counselling is free, shelter is free, legal representation is free.
> Some years ago there was a prominent female lawyer who was involved in an abusive relationship with another MARRIED male colleague. He shot and killed her and then killed himself.
> When the details came out, her family said that they tried to help her but she was hopelessly in love with this man.
> Everytime they tried, she went back to him.
> ...


Can you look back and say to yourself, "how could I have been so stupid?". Are there times when you recognize how poor your judgment was and you cannot conceive what brought you to those decisions? If we at times can't comprehend our own decisions, how can we understand that of others? I agree with you, I don't get it. But what does it matter? I am always reminded that in the end the person who chooses to abuse and murder is ultimately responsible. I understand their actions even less. And my focus is on them, because if a woman chooses to leave, and the abuser chooses to let her go, he will just move on to the next victim.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Ina said:


> Can you look back and say to yourself, "how could I have been so stupid?". Are there times when you recognize how poor your judgment was and you cannot conceive what brought you to those decisions? If we at times can't comprehend our own decisions, how can we understand that of others? I agree with you, I don't get it. But what does it matter? I am always reminded that in the end the person who chooses to abuse and murder is ultimately responsible. I understand their actions even less. And my focus is on them, because if a woman chooses to leave, and the abuser chooses to let her go, he will just move on to the next victim.


I get what you're saying.

I'm just trying to see it from the victim's perspective.
Just like that man earlier whose wife hits him and is abusive.
He has tried with her but its no use.He has exams and so forth so he working on himself.
Another story I read on TAM earlier this week , ended well IMO. The wife who was the victim moved on with her life.

But their story would be different to another woman who doesn't recognize that she's actually in trouble before the blows start.
My friend's daughter who's the psychology major is herself addicted to abusive men.
Why?
Is it because he dad was abusive and she was cultured in that type of environment?
But she's a brilliant student, can't she work on herself?

So what I'm trying to figure is why some leave and some stay?


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

I have a friend who is was/is in an abusive relationship. She isn't married to him but been seeing this guy for about 3 years now. 

He has always been abusive, verbally, mentally and physically, (she also fights him back)and they break up and always find their way back to each other. She has been told by many friends and family how they feel, only for her to say she knows she shouldn't get back with him but for whatever reason she does. 


She told me not long ago he gave her a STD about a year ago, and she felt like no one else would want her because of it. So IMO, that might be one reason she stayed. Sorry excuse to stay but anyway. They have scratched each others faces, hit and choked each other. You name it. She has bruises that I have seen and she has even taken pictures of it, but yet wont report him to the police. 

As of right now, they are not together, BUT I do think at some point she will take him back, (its always been like that) once he starts in on the I"m sorry deal. She has told me she knows she shouldn't but she still does. She has her own place, her own money both of her kids are grown and out of the house etc. IMO there is no excuse. I guess she feels so crappy about herself. IMO I think it will take her being half killed to wake up. Who knows, maybe she wants to die.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

On my spiritual side, I know I was with my ex to clear some Karma with him. I learned a TON. Everyone is on their own path.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

CallaLily said:


> *I guess she feels so crappy about herself.* IMO I think it will take her being half killed to wake up. Who knows, maybe she wants to die.


^^^^^
THIS.
Reminds me of something our marriage counsellor, who is a close friend of mine ,once told me.
She said that in some cases of abuse there is a conditioning that takes place. It's called 
" learned helplessness ."

Sounds like it may be applicable in your friend's [and some others] cases.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

Caribbean Man said:


> ^^^^^
> THIS.
> Reminds me of something our marriage counsellor, who is a close friend of mine ,once told me.
> She said that in some cases of abuse there is a conditioning that takes place. It's called
> ...


"Learned helplessness" thats interesting, thanks for sharing that. It very well could apply to my friends situation.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

In your friend's situation, it could have been learned before she got with him. Childhood issues that go unresolved sometimes play out in relationships.

My ex was JUST LIKE my mother. I see that now. Whoa dang.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

that_girl said:


> In your friend's situation, it could have been learned before she got with him. Childhood issues that go unresolved sometimes play out in relationships.
> 
> My ex was JUST LIKE my mother. I see that now. Whoa dang.


I think this could be the case as well! Very tue!


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

My mother chose abusive men. Alcoholics, emotional abusers, just plain jerks. Married 3 times. My mom was abused as a child by her father. So...it played out. She hasn't been with a man since her last divorce in 1988. She's done.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

CallaLily said:


> "Learned helplessness" thats interesting, thanks for sharing that. It very well could apply to my friends situation.


Here's some links that might be helpful;

Learned Helplessness (What It Is and Why It Happens)

learned helplessness and domestic violence - Google Scholar


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## in my tree (Jun 9, 2012)

CM - I realize that it may be near impossible for some to understand and for those of us who have gone through it, we barely understand it ourselves. Yes there are shelters (although many are closing their doors now) and legal help but those shelters and help are not in the home when this is going on. 

Sometimes it is a learned thing - it's all s/he knows. My ex (although I guess I should say stbxh as we are still technically married) had no real male role model and his mother collapsed mentally after his father died when my ex was 6. He is stunted emotionally and socially. He uses his size (a pretty big guy) and attitude as power.

My dad was an abusive *******. My step father was a spoiled, selfish and an emotional child. His raging fits of anger had us all walking on eggshells. I married my father/step father, so to speak. 

The physical abuse was minimal although he would do things like pin me down and tickle me mercilessly until I was screaming and crying. Then he would get off of me and be pissed at me for crying and not thinking that this was "fun". Verbally and emotionally he was cruel to both myself and my daughter. When he nearly physically attacked my daughter (I got in between them) is when I finally decided to leave. 15 years of marriage.

Why did I stay with him so long? I don't know. There is no logical answer, as you indicated. Someone said that these guys are "alpha". Well, in reality my ex would not be considered alpha, if I understand the definition as laid out on this site. He loses job after job. He is not considered attractive by social standards and he is very, very insecure. He has NO friends.

I got away for my daughter first, and then for myself. We have been separated for 7 years and the divorce is not final. Why? I don't know what is wrong with me. I filed, sent him the papers, he sent them back to me and I lost them (doh!). Sigh. I filled them all out again yesterday. 

I do know that I still have to deal with my own self esteem issues and I need to learn not to make the same mistakes that I keep repeating over and over (part of why I'm here on this site - to learn). I don't feel worthy of love. Sometimes I feel used up, unlovable, invisible and ancient. I know that this is all on me and I have to change it in order to move on and enjoy life.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

This thread has been so informative... After being in a violent relationship for a few years, I honestly still cannot fathom why I stayed so long.

It took time for me to just grow more resentful and disgusted... Then one day he tried to choke me to death and I had to call 911. He went to jail for over a year.

When he got out he STILL expected me to take him back. He didn't truly leave me alone until he broke into my house while my husband and I were not home. He saw the wedding photos on the mantel, had a nervous breakdown and call the police on himself.

That was a scary night.

Now I'm with someone who doesn't beat me, but is, at the very least, emotionally abusive and neglectful.

That in-between time was the best time of my life. I was single, had my own house and car. Did whatever I wanted, whenever I wanted. I was stupid and gave it all up for another stupid man!

Perhaps one day I'll learn. :scratchhead: I'm discovering myself in therapy and it's helping a little.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> This question really bothers me.
> 
> I have spoken to lots of women and I'm unable to get a logical answer.


You will never get a logical answer because it is not a matter of logic. It is a matter of emotion.

Why are there cases where abducted children stay in the long time care of their captors, grow older, have the freedom to attend school, and socialize in their neighborhood, all without making attempts to contact their real families?

Why do slaves rarely choose to revolt, even when they numerically outnumber their enslavers?

We humans like to think of ourselves a logical, sound, and reasoned. The truth of the matter is that we are emotional and spiritual creatures, who often are swayed by forces that are far more unstable, far less predictable. If we become insecure, or ashamed, we often compensate by self sabotaging. Unless a woman is in a society where leaving a husband has dire, life threatening consequences, women who stay are broken. Many abused women come from a background of abuse; they were abused, or their mothers were abused. And we are adaptable creatures, so after awhile the abuse becomes their new normal. On some level the broken woman believes she even deserves this treatment, so she seeks it out on a subconscious level in her partners.

It can never be underestimated how incredibly efficient human beings are at destroying our own destinies, and setting up permanent residence in the darkest, most destitute of places.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

in my tree said:


> I do know that I still have to deal with my own self esteem issues and I need to learn not to make the same mistakes that I keep repeating over and over (part of why I'm here on this site - to learn). I don't feel worthy of love. Sometimes I feel used up, unlovable, invisible and ancient. I know that this is all on me and I have to change it in order to move on and enjoy life.


Your post really touched me because you story is almost identical to my lady friend in my original post.
Yes, she too had to stand between her good for nothing husband and her eldest daughter [ 25 ] , when he tried to physically hit her.

She now says that she's close 60 yrs old and she too , feels useless. At work and in public she's an excellent manager, bubbly personality, gets things done , organizes fundraisers, her subordinates respect her a lot. Her daughters tells me that when she reaches home , all that stuff simply fades away and the abusive husband takes over and dominates her.

But you are fortunate because you had the will to walk away. You signed the papers etc.
I don't think you should blame yourself, the background circumstances has a lot to do with it.
What you can do is work on yourself, please don't call yourself " ancient" and all that stuff.
You have already taken the first step which is the most important.
Tomorrow is the first day of the rest of your life , 
Live your life.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

YinPrincess said:


> *I'm discovering myself in therapy and it's helping a little.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Glad to hear this Yin.
I remember reading your story and I was really shocked.
So long as you work on yourself,
Things _will_ get better, because you are able to see them from a different perspective.
A perspective where you are in control.

Best Wishes for 2013!


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

Thanks, CM. Being here has helped me tremendously, probably moreso than IC. 

Best wishes to you and Mrs. CM as well!! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## in my tree (Jun 9, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> Your post really touched me because you story is almost identical to my lady friend in my original post.
> Yes, she too had to stand between her good for nothing husband and her eldest daughter [ 25 ] , when he tried to physically hit her.
> 
> She now says that she's close 60 yrs old and she too , feels useless. At work and in public she's an excellent manager, bubbly personality, gets things done , organizes fundraisers, her subordinates respect her a lot. Her daughters tells me that when she reaches home , all that stuff simply fades away and the abusive husband takes over and dominates her.
> ...


I am fortunate, you are right. Many women never get out and begin to realize that they have potential and that life can be better. 

Your friend does sound a lot like myself. I am educated, can do just fine in the business world, can lead, etc. but at home?? That's another story.

I consider my greatest achievement and hope to be my daughter. She is very different from myself. I wanted her to realize that she is strong, smart, capable, beautiful, etc. and so far I think that she DOES realize that. She also thinks that my ex is a POS (he was her step father) and never wants to see him again. She is currently in a relationship with a warm, caring, intelligent young man. I hope that we broke that cycle of abuse and tolerating it in our lives.

Thank you for your kind words, CM, and I hope that your friend finds peace.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

in my tree said:


> *She is currently in a relationship with a warm, caring, intelligent young man. I hope that we broke that cycle of abuse and tolerating it in our lives.*


I think you have succeeded in doing that. 

Part of breaking the cycle is ensuring that she [ your daughter] is equipped to make the right decisions, and take responsibility for her own happiness.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

I haven't read the thread yet but any man who hits a woman is a coward and worthless human being.

Here's some thoughts.
- Self blame. Feeling like they don't deserve better.
- Shame. For staying. Maybe for being bad and causing it.
- Denial.
- Reward because he's so remorseful afterwards and so nice for a while.
- Empathy. Want to fix him because he feels so bad about it.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Viseral said:


> Because women are hard-wired to be attracted to dominant men rather than beta "nice guys" and violence sometimes comes with the territory.


I think it's not women. I think it's humans. Show me a man who's father was stern (not necessarily abuse) and I'll show you a man who respects his father above all others.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

I dont understand it either,my Dad used to beat my Mom,I remember being five and jumping on him to prtect my Mom,my Dad asked me "who's side you on anyway?"
In high school I put a stop to it,tho he is still mentally abusive.
I have five sisters and I'm the only boy,four of the five have been physically and mentally abused by husbands and boy friends and they go back for more.
I fought with everyone of the males that hit my sisters,I usually won but when I did get my ass whooped the "men" stopped their hitting,sadly my sisters would find another man who was pretty much the same.
Seeing my Moms teeth knocked out pizzed me off.
I have never hit a lady,it makes me sick.
I'm glad I didnt get that part of my Dad passed along to me.
Its disgusting
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

When I met my wife, she really didn't know how to be in a healthy relationship. She'd been in one physical abusive one, and a couple of verbally abusive ones.

HER RESPONSE TO THIS QUESTION::::::
SELF ESTEEM, THE NEED OR FEELING THE NEED TO FIX SOMEONE, AND FEELING LIKE IT MUST HAVE BEEN HER FAULT.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

My wife had an abusive bf in high school,he was my cousin.
I got along with him well enough til after me and CSS were dating he went out with a friend of hers,her friend threw him a surprise birthday party at my old appartment.
He gave her a black eye for it,I beat his ass once I got home.
You dont hit a lady,I hit back.
My cuz is now a drunk who wonders why life treated him so bad....ugh.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> This question really bothers me.
> 
> I have spoken to lots of women and I'm unable to get a logical answer.
> 
> ...


There are many reasons why a woman may stay with her abuser, one being something called Stockholm syndrome, but that isn't the only reason. Many times the woman is so beaten down by the guy that she no longer feels like she deserves any better and this is just how life is. 

My aunt stayed with her abusive husband for years and years before she finally left him only 5 years ago. He was an alcoholic and would hit her and throw things at her. Yet she stayed with him for almost 20 years. It was all she knew in life, as she married him right at 18, just out of high school. Sadly, her daughter, is in a somewhat similar relationship with her husband who treats her poorly. I don't know if I would call him abusive, at lest not physically, but he does not respect her as he should.

My dad came from an abusive home and has stopped the cycle of abuse, but only after grabbing my arm tightly when I was a child and throwing me up against the wall. The shock on my face and realization of what he did, really changed how he ever reacted toward me again. I had never seen him get close to that angry again after that incident. When I married, I made sure to look for a man who showed no similarities to the way my dad had acted before. My husband is the most calm, loving, respectful man there is and I hope we can show our child(ren) what a healthy relationship should be like, so they know what to look for in a spouse.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> When I met my wife, she really didn't know how to be in a healthy relationship. She'd been in one physical abusive one, and a couple of verbally abusive ones.
> 
> HER RESPONSE TO THIS QUESTION::::::
> SELF ESTEEM, THE NEED OR FEELING THE NEED TO FIX SOMEONE, AND FEELING LIKE IT MUST HAVE BEEN HER FAULT.


I'm glad that you mentioned her being in an unhealthy relationship before and her responses.

Because some of it the pieces are coming together in my mind.
Abuse is define as any treatment different from the norm designed to humiliate or inflict pain on someone.

Using that definition, some people , because of their past abuse or growing up in an environment where abuse was the norm, may be unable to actually tell the difference when the problem is ,
1]*not their fault,* [ it must have been her fault.]
2]*or not their responsibility* , [ the need to fix someone ]
3]*or that they can do better than this*. [ self esteem]

Because normal relationships usually have issues that need to be dealt with. We are humans and all make mistakes.
The difference in healthy relationships is the balance. People take responsibility for their actions and not blame anyone for their feelings and actions, neither accept responsibility for another's feelings and actions.
But is someone does not have proper , healthy personal boundaries, neither respect themselves nor think they deserve better,they may be setting themselves up for abuse.

What do you think?


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## Phoenix_87 (Dec 24, 2012)

There are a lot of factors why women stay in abusive relationships: religious belief, dependency, shame, fear of facing other's peoples opinions and gossip


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

This thread has been a very interesting read. I've discussed this with friends of mine as well. We remember these girls from high school and college, stunningly beautiful, wouldn't give us the time of day yet we were always kind to our girlfriends and now wives. These girls we remember (not all but the ones we were thinking of) are in abusive relationships. Black eyes, broken ribs, cops come and go all the time, husband in jail, husband out of jail. Why?? Why pick them and not us?

Frankly I just want to go in there and beat the sh!t out of their husbands one at a time. Unmercifully.


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## idkwot2do (Dec 29, 2012)

I think it is low self esteem, not even realising that you deserve better, can even do better. Not ever having experienced what it is to be treated well and truly loved to know the difference. To know that your relationship is unhealthy.


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## Viseral (Feb 25, 2011)

Ina said:


> I cannot resist responding to this post. I will only say that being "dominant" or "alpha" does not equate to being abusive. In fact I would find an abusive man to be insecure and inferior. Most men can overpower me physically, not many can challenge me in other ways. Luckily I found one and he married me, his alpha male chooses to protect, respect, and love me. This type of dominance I can surrender to.


Yes, and this is exactly why boys need fathers, to guide and develop their dominant aggressive traits for the pursuit of good, like protecting women and children. And also, so that hypergamous women will be attracted to them when they grow up.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

I am a women that was in an abusive marriage for 11 years, together with my STBXH for 12. I was also the breadwinner in my family, goal driven, marathon runner, mother, etc. Since I left my ex I have faced this same question a number of times. I can tell you that the number one reason that I stayed was for my son -- to keep the togetherness of my family. I kept hoping things would change, that he'd get counseling and learn to be the man I thought he was when I met him... he didn't. Aside from that, regardless of the spin you put on it, divorce is a failure in life. For me being a strong, intelligent, driven person a failure was not something I wanted, so I wasn't willing to leave until I knew things would never, ever be healthy. When I finally left it was scary; I had to have him legally removed from the family home on an ex parte basis and was offered a DVRO by the judge. In my 16 weeks worth of group counseling I learned that abusers don't pick out weak women like some may think; they choose the strong ones. So the characteristics your friends have seem right in line to me with (for lack of a better word) the "type." 

I am pretty open about my experiences now; talking about it helps me cope with and accept what happened. 

The gist of my story is that my ex would choke my into unconsciousness, leaving bruises on my neck, and kick me when I was down (literally). He also has threatened to kill me a number of times. He was incredibly insecure and a complete alpha-machismo type. 

The 2 most dangerous times for a women that is in an abusive relationship is when she gets pregnant and when she tries to leave. 

If you have any specific questions, I am happy to answer them.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Incredible Pepper,Youre a strong woman.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

Thanks for sharing that, Pepper. I went through the same thing with my ex, and even though the abuse only happened the last two years of our five year relationship, it was incredibly hard to leave. I kept thinking things might get better as well, but the day he tried to kill me was the day I finally decided I'd had enough.

I got pregnant once during our relationship and subsequently suffered a miscarriage, probably due to the beatings and the stress on my body.

The mind of an abused woman is weird, because I can still say now without a doubt, my relationship with him was the closest, most loving relationship I ever had. I miss him (the old him) terribly sometimes.

He started doing drugs after his biological grandmother passed away. He completely lost his mind after that. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

sandc said:


> *Frankly I just want to go in there and beat the sh!t out of their husbands one at a time. Unmercifully.*


I understand _exactl_y how you feel!
One time I was downtown with my wife and I saw a young woman holding on to her child and a young man trying to take the child away from her. He started hitting her all over her face and body and she was trying to protect the child from his blows.
Everybody stood watching this young girl, not more than 20 taking blows from whom I assumed to be her ex boyfriend or something.
Something in me just snapped I left my wife,ran across , grabbed him from the back,put him down and started punching him out.

Funny thing was , whilst he was hitting her, everybody stood and watched. When I started beating him down, a few men came over to get me off him telling me that's enough.:scratchhead:
He got up and ran off.
IMO, they should have held him till the police arrived.
I guess everybody just decided it was not their business.
But IMO, guys who physically hit or beat women are real cowards. 
I see them in the same grouping as pedophiles and rapists.

My wife once told me that one of my fiend's wife complained to her that he hit her.
That was the end of my friendship with him.
He never knew what " hit " him.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Viseral said:


> *Yes, and this is exactly why boys need fathers, to guide and develop their dominant aggressive traits for the pursuit of good, like protecting women and children. *And also, so that hypergamous women will be attracted to them when they grow up.


:iagree:

This issue is very close to my heart.


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## malkuth (Dec 28, 2012)

I find this situation very sad as a man. 

It is ok when you just want to have nice time with a girl, you know how to behave, and she finds herself chained to you. you feel man and strong  ( I don't mean beating by this of course, just behave and talk bad)

but it is a problem when you really like a girl and you feel like being nice and kind, it causes a bad future for the relationship.

It is different with more experienced and wise girls maybe, I didn't have the chance to be with one yet


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> One time I was downtown with my wife and I saw a young woman holding on to her child and a young man trying to take the child away from her. He started hitting her all over her face and body and she was trying to protect the child from his blows.
> Everybody stood watching this young girl, not more than 20 taking blows from whom I assumed to be her ex boyfriend or something.
> Something in me just snapped I left my wife,ran across , grabbed him from the back,put him down and started punching him out.


Exactly what I would have predicted from you CM. I've only had the pleasure of threatening an old friend once when he was pushing around on his GF. His evening was about to become unpleasant and he knew it wasn't an idle threat.


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## SpunkySpunky (Dec 17, 2012)

Self esteem.


That's why I had stayed in mine. I eventually left but not after getting beat on twice.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

YinPrincess said:


> Thanks for sharing that, Pepper.
> 
> I got pregnant once during our relationship and subsequently suffered a miscarriage, probably due to the beatings and the stress...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This exact thing happened to me... A week after he was arrested I miscarried. Reading that police report and feeling like I didn't protect my child was a horrible feeling.

If I saw someone abusing another person there is no way I could idly stand by and observe... Nor would I want to be with anyone that dis either. It is part of human decency to help another in situations like that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Oh yea. My ex spit in my friend's face.

Wow. Winner.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

She was a mutual friend of his too. It just got.....messy. No pun.

Her boyfriend went off on my ex, but...they were friends too. I don't even know.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Spit? In the face of your wife or gf?
OMG...terrible.
I just cant fathom some of the stories here,makes me sick.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

woman said:


> In the end, I finally left him to be with someone who was pursuing me, and I really liked this person, could see that we might have a future, and can't believe I didn't leave sooner. In retrospect I should have left and been alone.* I remember thinking 'what if this is all there is to life?' and being really disturbed at that possibility. Anyway I'm happy now, and learned a lot from it.*


Really want to thank you for posting your story.
I believe that it would help another woman who is in the exact , same situation like you.
Lots of people visit this site looking for support.
Reading this thread, I'm realizing that some of the stories are very similar in nature, and one could easily profile certain character traits in these types of men who abuse.
Maybe we also need to look a that angle, how can a woman spot an abuser before getting herself deeply involved to the point where she starts questioning her sanity.

Glad that you were strong enough to walk away, move on with your life.
I noticed that you left him for another guy, and it's working out fine [ which is VERY important.]
During that transition phase , did it ever cross your mind that this other guy could be just as bad or worse than the abuser?
I'm asking this because I've heard of cases like that where the woman leaves one abusive relationship, only to end up with another.
How did you know that this new guy wouldn't be the same?
What gave you that confidence?
Or did you just trust your intuition?


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

YinPrincess said:


> The mind of an abused woman is weird, because I can still say now without a doubt, my relationship with him was the closest, most loving relationship I ever had. *I miss him (the old him) terribly sometimes.*


:scratchhead:
What was the " old him" like ?


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

woman said:


> And yes, when my now-boyfriend was pursuing me, but before I made the choice to leave, *I was talking with a friend about the what-ifs and he helped me make the decision,*


Thanks for responding so soon!

And yes you have answered the question!
So , basically, because you had a neutral person/ friend who knew you and your situation, you were able to get good support and advice.

I think its quite admirable that you've said that you have learned from the experience, and that it has made you stronger.
What caught my interest too,is that you mentioned there was no history of abusive relationships in your past. 
Do you think that contributed to you making the right decision in the end?

I've heard that some abusive men always try to alienate their victims from any form of outside support , like friends and family.
So I'm guessing that if a SO or spouse does not want you to have any friends, it may very well be a red flag?


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## woman (Aug 19, 2011)

Caribbean Man said:


> Thanks for responding so soon!
> 
> And yes you have answered the question!
> So , basically, because you had a neutral person/ friend who knew you and your situation, you were able to get good support and advice.
> ...


No, not at all. I think it can happen to anyone. I was vulnerable when we got together, and the abuse crept up. 

And yes I am very grateful for my friend. Everyone gave me good advice but I didn't take it from people who were too close because I knew they didn't like my boyfriend. This friend wasn't invested in me at all, so his advice was more objective, which I valued more than the advice of my closer friends...oddly.

I learned a lot about boundaries on both sides from that relationship. 

I bear this guy no ill will, but I don't want much to do with him either. When I see him I wonder how I put up with his mind numbing conversation for five years, but that's about it. 


Caribbean Man said:


> I've heard that some abusive men always try to alienate their victims from any form of outside support , like friends and family.


In my case this was definitely true, but I don't think it was conscioius. He would constantly talk **** about my sister (we're very close) and brother in law, and made unflattering comments about my family in general but never tried to stop me from seeing them.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

woman said:


> *I learned a lot about boundaries on both sides from that relationship. *
> 
> I bear this guy no ill will, but I don't want much to do with him either. When I see him I wonder how I put up with his mind numbing conversation for five years, but that's about it.
> 
> .


This is commendable, it says that you have truly moved on.

Is there any advice or pointers that you would like to give to other women on what to look out for in an abusive relationship?

What should they consider as definite RED FLAGS?


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## woman (Aug 19, 2011)

Okay:
- The relationship moving faster than you're comfy with (talk of marriage/children/etc way too soon)

That was a huge one for me. Otherwise:

- Flipping your **** over nothing from nowhere. Like how vegetables are prepared etc.

- Confrontations with others over nothing.

- Openly nastily talking about people they know you love.

- Talking badly about people who have wronged them, especially if your judgment doesn't align with what they're saying.

- Double standards. 

- The other person going by their own definitions of words.

- being stonewalled (being told 'none of your business', **** off etc, in response to a legitimate question/statement).

That's all I can think of for now.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

woman said:


> Okay:
> - The relationship moving faster than you're comfy with (talk of marriage/children/starting a business/etc way too soon)
> 
> That was a huge one for me. Otherwise:
> ...


Thanks very much for your time .
You were very helpful.
Best wishes on our relationship!


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## Viseral (Feb 25, 2011)

Let us not forget that women initiate domestic violence as often as men do.

http://domesticviolencestatistics.org/men-the-overlooked-victims-of-domestic-violence/

http://divorcesupport.about.com/od/abusiverelationships/a/male_abuse.htm


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

I also had no history of abuse. I grew up with the upper middle class white picket fence, a nice vacation each year, had everything I needed and a lot of what I wanted. I don't know if being adopted fed into my low self-esteem or not but my parents always made it clear that they wanted me and loved me as much as their birth child. 

But once I hit puberty, I always saw myself as an ugly duck. Before that I was a chubby child but it never occurred to me that I was less than pretty until I went to Jr. Hi. Then the merciless teasing started. Add braces and glasses. The first boy who asked me out I said yes. He was a big fella and not too bright. I guess I figured some boyfriend was better than none at all. Same thing with next boyfriend who I stayed with through 1 year of college and broke it off. (Looking back, what I thought was 'fat' in high school was probably only 20 extra pounds and I'm 5'6-7ish.) 

Fast forward 1 year - lost weight, dated a few guys. Met the 'alpha' male who was 12 years older and I was SO flattered that someone who was older and sophisticated was interested in lil' ol me (roommate worked with him). He was on summer break from law school - had his BS in CJ and been a police officer and decided to go back to school. I had tired of going out with 'boys' and the prospect of a real adult who had been overseas, married before, studying law, etc. - seemed sort of glamorous. 

I moved in with him after 2 months in 2 more he was going back to law school 700 miles away so I decided to go with him for fear of losing him. By this time I had burned the bridge with my roommate and really had nowhere to go, working a low paying retail job. He had given me glimpses of being NPD (narcissistic, not bi-polar) but it just seemed over confident/demanding a bit and I was too naive to see the signs. 

Moved with him, got a job there, married him at the court house and 2 months later he dropped out of law school (I see later all of his 'stories' add up to someone who can't complete anything but they seemed to be good reasons to me back then) and move into an apartment and he starts his own business and I become his admin. That was the first time he shoved me and it was into a sliding glass door - I still remember being terrified I was going to break through it. I'd never seen or known anyone besides school kids that shoved people. I was stunned and apologized because surely it was something I did - he told me it was.

Over the years it escalated and I had gradually been both intimidated and emotionally downtrodden to the point I didn't think I could make it on my own. Any little mistake was cause for criticism. He told me I was dumb, stupid, f-ing dumbazz, to get my head out of my azz, etc. I would try to tell him why I did whatever it was which only angered him more, got him screaming in my face, shoving, etc. so I learned to not talk back. There were good times but even then I was always being careful to not anger him. I thought about leaving several times but was always afraid of failing to make it on my own. Crticism went to shoving, lead to grabbing my throat and pinning me against the wall. Then he'd hit me in the head so the lumps and bruises wouldn't show because of my hair. It hurt most days to brush it. Sex was on his terms - if I didn't, it would get ugly, he'd threaten to leave me so I went along with it - usually daily. He criticized that I never initiated but under those conditions, who would? 

There was always an excuse when I tried to talk to him about it - he was under stress, I was trying his patience, he loved me and couldn't understand why I did such stupid things... 

Then the huge house (at 7 years of marriage) - business was good and I had this gorgeous 4br colonial house and 3 months later became pregnant. I was on the pill but he was 42 and I was 30 so we figured it was time. I thought he would see the example he was setting and might cool down a bit and not yell so much in front of a child. Things were pretty good for a while.

At 5 months pregnant I was jerked out of bed because I had left a box of paperwork on the floor of the bonus room and he had run into it, stubbing is toe in the dark going to open a window. He screamed for me to go move it, how stupid and careless I was and threw it at me and over the balcony down the staircase, ripped my PJs, and shoved me down the stairs to clean it up. I sat on the bottom step crying knowing this wasn't right but now felt more trapped than ever knowing there would be a baby in 4 months.

Things were OK shortly after she was born. He insisted on hand jobs daily (he couldn't come from BJs) and at four weeks pushed to have sex. It was awful and painful. But now my company was moving out of state and closing the offices so I was out of a job. We sold one car and I stayed at home with little one. It was a trade off for me - I got to be with her all day but I also had to be with him all day - his own business working from home. He also complained about my weight gain during pregnancy and would measure my arms and thighs. After birth he would weigh me. I would sneak food because I bought it. Maybe it was the only control I had?

Tension escalated and he was screaming at me one morning, still in robe, holding toddler and he started shoving and screaming, spitting on me and went out to the garage and got his gun from his vehicle (needed it for job). He said he would kill us both and then himself because I wasn't worth going to jail for and he wasn't letting someone else raise our kid. I REALLY knew then he was crazy. The phone rang - business call. He left he gun on the counter. I seriously thought about killing him. I held the gun wondering if I would be convicted or if it would be self defense. I only have very few bruises and had never called the police before so there was no record of abuse. I hid the gun instead. He came back looking for it and I wouldn't tell him where I hid it. He calmed down, did the usual apologies and he found it (kitchen drawer - I had no time). I tried to tell him that kind of behavior was killing our marriage. It wasn't the first time I'd told him that. I had said it takes 10 nice things to overcome one bad, etc. I knew I had to get out and the first step was getting a job. He didn't want our daughter in daycare but I argued at 2 she needed socialization and activities, we needed health insurance... I convinced him it was the right thing. Got a job at a bank in marketing but it was temp to perm so no security yet. 

That summer she was 2.5 years he rented a 6br beach house and invited friends and family to come. Two of my friends and hubbies came - later I found out it was to support me. They had met him and had somehow known. One had been abused and the other was from a patriarchal society and her brother abused her. As usual he was charming to them and an azz to me. It was all about appearances for him. Then family came for the last half. My BIL/SIL and MIL where already there. My family showed up but were going to find a hotel because it wasn't handicapped equipped and he yelled and made an azz of himself, said they were ungrateful, etc. and were never welcome in our house again. I played nice til after dinner. I told him he made the wrong move if he thought I'd choose him over my family. He got stoned and went to bed and I sat up with SIL (his brother's wife). The first thing she asked was if he ever beat me. I broke down in tears. I'd never told a soul. She saw it in our dynamics - I probably cowered or something. We sat up for hours. She became my life line.

After that trip I emailed her often. I was still on a contract basis for the next year and afraid of the lack of security so I stayed but the secret was out and there was less power now that someone knew. Business wasn't good so we moved into our rental and got rid of the big house. The stress was making him worse. Finally I borrowed money from my parents to open a secret checking account so I could pay to consult an attorney. I packed an emergency bag and hid it in the master closet. I got a cell phone on a basic plan. I was offered a permanent position but after 10 years of undermining my self esteem, I was still was unsure of leaving and managing on my own. 

Often he would want me to leave our daughter with him instead of daycare. He would drop her off if he needed to meet a client. One day I came home and he told me how bad she had been and that she had been in her room all day. ALL DAY AT 3.5!!!! (He fed her and allowed bathroom use.) I immediately went to get her and yelled at him about how inappropriate that length of punishment was - by now she had no idea why he shut her away. I knew things had to change - for her.

Our financial situation had changed and I visited the attorney once again. This time I was ready. Apparently he sensed that because a few weeks later I come home and he's acting really odd. He's sweaty, said he'd been cleaning the garage and says he's going to take a shower. Kiddo comes down the stairs w/ toothbrush and toothpaste looking scared and confused. I went outside and saw a big black trashbag in his SUV - with a tiny pink striped sleeve hanging out of it. Hers. I grabbed the bag of clothing and threw it in my trunk, went in and asked her if she wanted to get McDs for dinner and she said yes. I didn't dare go back up for my bag - I was afraid he'd be done in the shower, see me, grab me and then who knows. I put her in the car and left. Got McDs, parked behind a shopping center and called my Mom. He called. I ignored. Called friends to say I'd left. He called, I ignored. I got the # to the battered women's shelter and before I could call he had disconnected my phone. I pulled out the secret one I'd gotten earlier and called. 

I later find out that he had come to the parking deck and found my legal file hidden under the passenger seat of my car. He also found the VAR hidden in the bathroom where I'd recorded some of his threats and rants. He was going to take kiddo and go to Grandmother's house for a bit. 

We stayed for 30 days. I was laid (layed?) off from the bank after 1 week. They were being investigated by the SEC - bad coincidence/timing. My parents paid a deposit on a little house. They paid for my attorney. I don't know what people do who don't have resources. I got temp jobs and a roommate to make ends meet. 

I was in counseling at the shelter who referred me to United Family Services to continue. Those first two years turned my life around. I learned to stand my ground, make boundaries, not engage in arguments with him. I won custody and did so many things on my own. I felt so self-sufficient and strong when it was all over. This will NEVER happen again.

9.5 years later I'm confident, happy, own my own home, car is paid for, in a great job that I really love with a company that appreciates me. I've been promoted twice in the 9 years I've been there. I've held my own with him, defeating him twice in court. Including getting a court-ordered psychological evaluation for parental fitness which is why I can now say he IS NPD. After reading the findings and looking up the behaviors it makes SO MUCH SENSE! It was never about me. It was him. He had to be perfect so that meant he criticized everyone else. Except our daughter who, because she is part him, is perfect. I keep her grounded.


Bottom line (TL/DR) he tore me down bit by bit without my even realizing it. I felt I would live in some hell hole, barely getting by in some pathetic existence without him. I was afraid of him. I realize, too, that I never loved him - I was in awe and then I was afraid but I was never in love.


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## Ina (Dec 3, 2012)

Pepper123 said:


> I am a women that was in an abusive marriage for 11 years, together with my STBXH for 12. I was also the breadwinner in my family, goal driven, marathon runner, mother, etc. Since I left my ex I have faced this same question a number of times. I can tell you that the number one reason that I stayed was for my son -- to keep the togetherness of my family. I kept hoping things would change, that he'd get counseling and learn to be the man I thought he was when I met him... he didn't. Aside from that, regardless of the spin you put on it, divorce is a failure in life. For me being a strong, intelligent, driven person a failure was not something I wanted, so I wasn't willing to leave until I knew things would never, ever be healthy. When I finally left it was scary; I had to have him legally removed from the family home on an ex parte basis and was offered a DVRO by the judge. In my 16 weeks worth of group counseling I learned that abusers don't pick out weak women like some may think; they choose the strong ones. So the characteristics your friends have seem right in line to me with (for lack of a better word) the "type."
> 
> I am pretty open about my experiences now; talking about it helps me cope with and accept what happened.
> 
> ...


Thank you for sharing this. I think sometimes society labels victims as weak or broken. As in "there must be something wrong with THEM if they stay." I sometimes believe that those who are stronger can endure more. Some women in abusive relationships do come from traumatic/abusive backgrounds, but many do not. Many women choose to stay because they feel that they can better control their fate/safety and that of their children by staying. If you have never been there it is difficult to understand the level of danger when I woman leaves. 

I was a later in life baby. Before I was born my father was abusive to my mother. He was extremely jealous and possessive. My father agreed to see a psychiatrist and was put on meds. The physical abuse stopped but not the jealousy. Still my mother stayed. It wasn't until he stopped drinking (well into my adult years) that he improved drastically. My mother stayed because she believes in family and divorce is not an option for her. She says she was young but she knew who she married. My father would not/could not have become the man he is today without her. Within her world she had control, my father had to takevthe meds, there could never be a gun in the house, etc. She chose to carry that burden. My mother was not and is not broken. She is the strongest woman I know and I respect her choice. 

There is a part of me that doesn't like to share this story because of the false hope it could bring. The truth is my mother has a great deal of power in her relationship with my father. So I don't say this to compare but to point out again that the dynamics in these relationships can vary greatly.


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## Ina (Dec 3, 2012)

Viseral said:


> Let us not forget that women initiate domestic violence as often as men do.
> 
> Men: The Overlooked Victims of Domestic Violence | Domestic Violence Statistics
> 
> Male Victims of Domestic Abuse


This is not correct. It is true that men are victims but not at the rate of women. The type of violence is also different. Women use more weapons against men, but this makes sense since men can normally overpower a woman without the need for a weapon. However, f you read further into the literature of women as batterers you will find that a large number of these women are actually resorting to physical violence as a form of self defense. I am not saying to minimize those cases where men are victims. I only point out that the rate is much higher for women (even if you account for under reporting)


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

EnjoliWoman said:


> I also had no history of abuse. I grew up with the upper middle class white picket fence, a nice vacation each year, had everything I needed and a lot of what I wanted. I don't know if being adopted fed into my low self-esteem or not but my parents always made it clear that they wanted me and loved me as much as their birth child.
> 
> But once I hit puberty, I always saw myself as an ugly duck. Before that I was a chubby child but it never occurred to me that I was less than pretty until I went to Jr. Hi. Then the merciless teasing started. Add braces and glasses. The first boy who asked me out I said yes. He was a big fella and not too bright. I guess I figured some boyfriend was better than none at all. Same thing with next boyfriend who I stayed with through 1 year of college and broke it off. (Looking back, what I thought was 'fat' in high school was probably only 20 extra pounds and I'm 5'6-7ish.)
> 
> ...



Thanks for taking the time to tell us your story!

I was on my way out , heading to the gym when I just checked and saw your story.
I started reading [ I can speed read ha!] and I had to slow down and start from the beginning!

I think financial independence is very important for every married woman.I always preach,
Have a SEPARATE ACCOUNT.
If the dynamics of the relationship is not very good, try to establish a secret account. It will give you options.
Some people disagree with me, no problem.
But that money would always come in handy. A woman may not have an abusive husband, but a separate account in her name can give her a certain level of financial freedom.

Money = Power.

No one likes to have to ask for money.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

EnjoliWoman said:


> I also had no history of abuse. I grew up with the upper middle class white picket fence, a nice vacation each year, had everything I needed and a lot of what I wanted. I don't know if being adopted fed into my low self-esteem or not but my parents always made it clear that they wanted me and loved me as much as their birth child.
> 
> But once I hit puberty, I always saw myself as an ugly duck. Before that I was a chubby child but it never occurred to me that I was less than pretty until I went to Jr. Hi. Then the merciless teasing started. Add braces and glasses. The first boy who asked me out I said yes. He was a big fella and not too bright. I guess I figured some boyfriend was better than none at all. Same thing with next boyfriend who I stayed with through 1 year of college and broke it off. (Looking back, what I thought was 'fat' in high school was probably only 20 extra pounds and I'm 5'6-7ish.)
> 
> ...


A truly powerful testimony. More women need to hear this. Would you consider making making this post a thread opener?


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

Good thread.

I knew I was in an abusive relationship after the 5th date. I was 24.

However, he was gorgeous, had a great job, owned a home, outwardly charming & educated.

In other words "marriage material" LOL.

I stayed 22 years while planning & plotting my escape.

Hardest thing I ever did.

Now I'm free


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## in my tree (Jun 9, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> I've heard that some abusive men always try to alienate their victims from any form of outside support , like friends and family.
> So I'm guessing that if a SO or spouse does not want you to have any friends, it may very well be a red flag?


I've noticed that too in my own world and others who have experienced abuse. Tbh - the abuser doesn't have many friends either. My ex nor my dad had any close friends, more like acquaintances. There was a period of time when I had very few friends (long distance only) due to being wrapped up in family life and he didn't like it if I went out without him. I was so lonely during that time. Freakin' miserable. Anyway I finally stopped caring what he liked and went out without him. I made some tremendous friends who would scratch their heads and ask me what the attraction was. lol.. I really think that they supported me and gave me the courage to move on.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

jaquen said:


> A truly powerful testimony. More women need to hear this. Would you consider making making this post a thread opener?


I guess - I figured we'd covered abuse often enough here but it if helps someone I'm happy to do that.


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## idkwot2do (Dec 29, 2012)

My husband is 20 years older than me, I met him when I was 19 and he was icredibly abusive in the early years and looking back I think I stayed because I was abused as a child as well so I thought his tough love was normal. But over the years I have gotten stronger and have finally experienced real love and I can tell you that until I experienced what it was to be really loved and cared for I had no idea that before that I was being abused. But mental abuse goes deep especially if you have basicially grown up with it but I am almost free now. Because with knowlege the power is shifting in my favour.


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## SadSadWoman (Dec 30, 2012)

Hi,

A kind soul alerted me to this thread and I am only starting to read through. But I had to respond to this message - a good therapist shoud not just "make suggestions", but help her to explore what is going on in her life, her past and what she is repeating or trying to fix. Is this a defence mechanism? Anybody who abuses or puts up with abuse does so for a reason, usually something from their childhood - their attachment style due to the way their parents related to them.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

SadSadWoman said:


> Hi,
> 
> Anybody who abuses or puts up with abuse does so for a reason, usually something from their childhood - their attachment style due to the way their parents related to them.


Not always. I can't really figure out why I put up with it. Stubborn? Fear of failure? I knew it wasn't OK once it began. By then I was 700 miles from family and friends. Add by the time we moved back I didn't want to admit I'd made a mistake and just tried to do better so I didn't anger him.

I was adopted at 6 weeks old - no bonding issues - bonded well with my family. No behavior or learning issues. They were honest from the first time I asked where babies came from - they said they picked me out special. 

Parents discussed and agreed, never yelled. Punishments were fair and I was never beaten. I would be talked to, reasoned with, and had privileges taken away. They were active in PTA, came to every school event I ever participated in - plays, chorus, recitals. Dad traveled for work about 40% but when he was home he was 100% there and involved. Pets were treated kindly, humanely as part of the family. We were encouraged to empathize with less fortunate. 

We went on vacations to visit family and have traveled up both US coasts from FL to ME and flew out west from San Francisco to Washington (after Mt. St. Helen blew). Educational trips and fun trips both.

We had chores to do as part of being a member of the family and also extra chores we got paid to do should we choose to earn some money. They gave me a car at 16 (Toyota) and another at 18 (Datsun station wagon lol) when I wrecked it. 

I can't think of one thing my parents did wrong. :scratchhead: I just assumed when I married I'd be just like them. I was eager for my grown up life because I wanted what they had.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

Carole King's interview with Piers Morgan about her abusive third husband:

Carole King on abusive relationship - YouTube

She was a mature woman, financially and artistically successful, and yet she succumbed to an abusive relationship.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

jaquen said:


> A truly powerful testimony. More women need to hear this. Would you consider making making this post a thread opener?


:iagree:

And I love her syntax!

The way she told her story was almost like a movie, I actualized her husband, gun in hand threatening her and shouting. I visualized him in the shower, and her grabbing the little one when she made that final dash for freedom.

Sometimes we see people and we never know the hell they've been through.
My belief is that every life has a story.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

We screw up little girls with this sentence:

*"He's teasing you/mean to you/hitting you because he likes you."*

That's crap. Never say that to a little girl. Or boy.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

I know for me the fact that I grew up in a dysfunctional family played a big part. My dad had a horrible temper and I know he got physical with my mom, but I'm not sure to what extent as he never did it in front of me. They vacillated between periods of tolerance and misery, and we had moved about 3,000 miles from our extended family. My parents finally got divorced when I graduated HS (I am youngest of 4). I moved to CA from AK when I was 18 w/o knowing anyone. I met my stbxh when I was 20, married at 21. In retrospect I know a lot of my attraction to him had much to do with the extended family he offered... They are wonderful. I know a lot of his issues had to do with the completely dysfunctional home that he grew up in (drugs, infidelity, poverty, verbal abuse). Losing his family was hard... And despite his abuse he is a good person, but lacks significant coping skills.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SadSadWoman (Dec 30, 2012)

Attachment issues are not the only possible reason for enduring abuse form a partne, but probably one of the more common reasons. Your parents sound like wonderful people, but unfortunately attachment issues can stem from birth - our earliest experiences are nonverbal and unconscious, but can be addressed in later life. Loving and caring caregivers sunsequently can make it easier to deal with these issues.


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## idkwot2do (Dec 29, 2012)

I think this is why a loving father daughter relationship is so important in a young girls life. This is what she will base her future relationships with men on.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Very true. Both my bio dad and step dad shet on me in horrible ways.

I'm surprised I didn't go eff every guy that looked at me. It's amazing I held on to my virginity until age 21, with what I've been through as a girl.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

EnjoliWoman said:


> Not always. I can't really figure out why I put up with it. Stubborn? Fear of failure? I knew it wasn't OK once it began. By then I was 700 miles from family and friends. Add by the time we moved back I didn't want to admit I'd made a mistake and just tried to do better so I didn't anger him.
> 
> I was adopted at 6 weeks old - no bonding issues - bonded well with my family. No behavior or learning issues. They were honest from the first time I asked where babies came from - they said they picked me out special.
> 
> ...


Your bottom basement self esteem issues really sounded to me like the foundation. As someone who suffered through emotionally/psychologically debilitating self esteem problems earlier in life, I know that you can make detrimental, life altering mistakes when you are buried in esteem issues.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

jaquen said:


> Your bottom basement self esteem issues really sounded to me like the foundation. As someone who suffered through emotionally/psychologically debilitating self esteem problems earlier in life, I know that you can make detrimental, life altering mistakes when you are buried in esteem issues.


Bottom basement is a bit harsh... I always knew I had value as a human - I just didn't like the way I looked and struggled with being teased and unpopular as a teen. 

But I agree self esteem had a lot to do with it and also made it easier for him to tear me down.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

EnjoliWoman said:


> Not always. I can't really figure out why I put up with it. Stubborn? Fear of failure? I knew it wasn't OK once it began. By then I was 700 miles from family and friends. Add by the time we moved back I didn't want to admit I'd made a mistake and just tried to do better so I didn't anger him.
> 
> I was adopted at 6 weeks old - no bonding issues - bonded well with my family. No behavior or learning issues. They were honest from the first time I asked where babies came from - they said they picked me out special.
> 
> ...



I am going to hazard a guess here.
I am thinking that you past abuse was not with your parents but with the children at school who teased you. 
That teasing may have made you feel inferior, especially around boys.
That's why you gave yourself so willingy to this guy. You felt honoured because he picked you.

We live in a society where abuse is rampant in all forms . Men abuse women. Women abuse men. Parents abuse kids. Kids abuse parents. Adults abuse the elderly. School kids abuse other school kids, and it goes on and on.
In short, abused people, abuse people.

But someone needs to break the cycle.
Put and end to the abuse.
You did just that and gave your daughter an example to follow.

The interesting thing about my friend's daughter who likes abusive men in my original post is that her mom paid for them to attend the best private Montessori schools. I knew them as kids. They attended the most prestigeous girl's college. But she was showing signs in college. I remember her mom telling us about certain incidents.She always did stuff to get attention,and in a conservative college, that meant trouble. she excelled and is now doing her last year in University.
But she seems to be out of control. messing with drugs , sex , alcohol and low life abusive men.
I am thinking the situation at home somehow conditioned her mind to accept that sort of treatment, even though she knows its not right.
She once introduced me to one of her boyfriend. The guy is business major in university, his parents are well off, he work part time in their business, not the partying type that she likes. I looked at him and sighed in my mind. I knew they wouldn't last too long.
He was too " nice " for her.
The guy she's cheating on him with is a University drop out who beat her up in the past and threatened to kill her.


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## SadSadWoman (Dec 30, 2012)

My background is a father who was deserted by his mother at 4 years and reared by an alcoholic father. My mother lost her father when she was 8 yo, hated her step-father and (I only found out a few years ago) gave up a daughter for adoption when she was 19yo.
I was the eldest - lots of anger, shouting and physical abuse. My mother was also excessively controlling and verbally abusive. I ran from any relationships with nice guys after 3 months. As the years progressed, I found myself falling for "wasters". Subsequent therapy helped me partly heal my parental relationship and my fear of being controlled. However, as I described in my other thread, I am in an unhappy relationship so obviously still need to do work on my self-esteem! Lol. But I believe where there is life, htere is hope


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

jaquen said:


> Your bottom basement self esteem issues really sounded to me like the foundation. As someone who suffered through emotionally/psychologically debilitating self esteem problems earlier in life, I know that you can make detrimental, life altering mistakes when you are buried in esteem issues.


:iagree:

I picked that up too.
Those kids in school gave her a rough time.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

idkwot2do said:


> I think this is why a loving father daughter relationship is so important in a young girls life. This is what she will base her future relationships with men on.


:iagree: x 100%
Some might disagree with me, but like Gaia said in one of her threads,
A woman usually marries her father and a man usually marries his mother.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

EnjoliWoman said:


> Not always. I can't really figure out why I put up with it. Stubborn? Fear of failure? I knew it wasn't OK once it began. By then I was 700 miles from family and friends. Add by the time we moved back I didn't want to admit I'd made a mistake and just tried to do better so I didn't anger him.
> 
> I was adopted at 6 weeks old - no bonding issues - bonded well with my family. No behavior or learning issues. They were honest from the first time I asked where babies came from - they said they picked me out special.
> 
> ...


Enjoli, fear of failure, denial, and being stubborn can be enough especially when it sneaks up on you. I'm not sure why everyone feels the need to pinpoint additional esteem or attachment issues in your case.

The fact is sometimes well rounded emotionally stable people find themselves in a situation like this. It's just not as common. There are positive character traits like not being a quitter that can work against you in cases like this.


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## SadSadWoman (Dec 30, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> Enjoli, fear of failure, denial, and being stubborn can be enough especially when it sneaks up on you. I'm not sure why everyone feels the need to pinpoint additional esteem or attachment issues in your case.
> 
> The fact is sometimes well rounded emotionally stable people find themselves in a situation like this. It's just not as common. There are positive character traits like not being a quitter that can work against you in cases like this.


I am sorry if my post was misunderstood, but I am not assuming to know exactly what anyone's reasons for enduring a bad realtionship is. Just adding to the possibilities.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

EnjoliWoman said:


> Bottom basement is a bit harsh... I always knew I had value as a human - I just didn't like the way I looked and struggled with being teased and unpopular as a teen.
> 
> But I agree self esteem had a lot to do with it and also made it easier for him to tear me down.


I had plenty of value as a human being, but my body image/self esteem problems were indeed severe enough to qualify as "bottom basement". Even though I was incredibly low in the self image category, I never had a problem valuing myself as a human being.

If that phrasing is too strong for your situation, forgive me.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

SadSadWoman said:


> I am sorry if my post was misunderstood, but I am not assuming to know exactly what anyone's reasons for enduring a bad realtionship is. Just adding to the possibilities.


I found your posts and Enjoli's both to be interesting. Enjoli presented her story and said why she thought she stayed and it made sense to me so I was merely saying, I believe there doesn't have to be more than that. I do however think most of the time, there are attachment or esteem issues or there's not a good model of relationship for women beforehand.

So I wasn't actually disagreeing with anyone.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

Caribbean Man said:


> :scratchhead:
> What was the " old him" like ?


CM, one thing people truly don't understand is how CLOSE my ex and I were. His transition to violence was very sudden and very, very unexpected.

A little background on him: adopted at birth by his biological grandparents. He didn't know this until he turned 21. They then, after a lifetime of physical and mental abuse, confessed that he was the son of his "older sister". His brother was really his uncle, etc. It blew him away. He went on a frantic search for his real father for awhile but gave up when he found out how promiscuous his real mother was. He was the youngest and EVERYONE in his family abused him - mostly emotionally.

I recall when he reunited with his real mother once, (she had been disowned by the family), and for HOURS all she did was sit and tell him how he (her firstborn) ruined her life, her body, etc. I couldn't keep my mouth shut and I kept telling her it wasn't HIS fault she was immature, got pregnant and didn't do ANYTHING as a mother to raise him. In fact, she left him in the hands of her parents, who she KNEW were abusive.

He told me to keep quiet and let her talk. I left. I just could not believe what I was hearing her say.

That was the last time they ever talked.

When his bio-grandmother passed away, his whole world fell apart. Even though she was severely passive-aggressive to her husband, (not to mention the enabling she did in allowing all of the children and herself to be physically and emotionally abused), my ex loved her and leaned on her more than anyone else in the world. I would gradually take her place in that department, but her death was permanent and there was nothing I could do to change that.

He started doing drugs daily. We did drugs together occasionally, (recreationally) before, but he went off his rocker. He was doing speed every day, not sleeping for almost a week at a time, hallucinating, losing it. He truly lost his mind. During that time I was not doing drugs with him... He scared the crap out of me. Instead of leaving I just figured it was a phase he was going through to cope with the pain of his loss. This phase lasted two years and he became so violent towards me. I went sexless, and unknowingly at the time, this was very provoking for him... I just couldn't deal with him anymore, but I still held out hope that he would go back to the way he was before - kind, generous, loving, affectionate... He really put me on a pedestal and worshipped the ground I walked on before all of this. He had so much respect and admiration for me. He always had my back. He was my best friend and the closest thing to a "soul mate" I had ever had, even to this day. I guess that's what made it so hard to leave once he changed. 

The day he tried to kill me, at 7:30am - I hadn't even been awake a few minutes to even do anything to piss him off - was the day I knew it was over.

He'd begun to choke me and I couldn't breathe. Keep in mind, at this time I was 5'4" and 115 lbs. He was 6'2" and easily double my weight plus some. (He was a big guy). I managed to get away and dial 911 from our house phone - he saw what I did and ripped the cord from the wall - at least we both thought he did. For whatever reason it stayed plugged in and police officers were dispatched to our house. I was scared and embarrassed, but the worst was yet to come.

After his "father" (bio-grandfather) found out what happened, he kicked me out of the house he GAVE US (we worked our asses off for him for it - he owns a LOT of property and land). So I had three days to vacate years' worth of possessions, (many of which I lost), I had 4 dogs, one of which was severely epileptic (seizures EVERY SINGLE DAY despite medications); we lived in my car at WalMart after I found the women's shelters too shady and intolerable for me. 

While staying at WalMart and simultaneously looking for a place to stay and a job, their security department had one of my other cars towed. (For those who don't know - any Walmart is a safe refuge for victims of domestic violence, travelers, etc.) I had permission to be there, set up through my Victim's Advocate. It took a week but I was able to get my car back and Walmart was kind enough to pay the tow/storage fees and they gave me a $100 gift card as well.

Through the city shelters, I was able to secure boarding free of charge for all of my dogs except the epileptic one. They wouldn't take her because she was a liability, so she went to live with my mom an hour away.

Long story short, I eventually met a couple off of Craigslist, who took my three dogs after they had used up their two weeks' at the city shelter (who also kindly vaccinated and wormed them for free). The woman (of this couple) also got me a job at a hotel she worked at. Over a period of months, staying in and out of my (now) husband's apartment, friend's houses, sleeping in my car, and sometimes at the hotel when I could (my new boss was incredibly understanding), I eventually had enough money to move into my very own house.

My landlord was also a saint... she knew I was only working part-time and would sometimes be late or short on rent, and she was okay with that.

It's been a long road, and that's just the "Cliff's Notes" version of it.

Through it all, I missed my ex terribly. I cried for him every night - the old him. Before his "mom" died he'd been an exceptional companion. I've never had such a great, perfect relationship in all my life, or since. I see the relationship between my ex and I as two different relationships - the good and the bad.

Sorry for the novel. :/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

And when I said "harsh", sometimes looking something right in the 'face' is harsh. It was probably a combination of being teased by kids and my other personality traits. My parents were surprised, disappointed, supportive... Dad said it was a good thing he never suspected or he'd be in jail and ex would be dead. 

Just wanted to show there are multiple sides to the issue. I remember thinking (and this sounds snobby) people like "ME" didn't get into abusive relationships - that was for people of low class. And then standing in line to talk to someone about a restraining order, the lady in front of me in a pristine suit and heels was also getting a restraining order - her husband was a doctor. I don't know if it was the truth or merely legal maneuvering (which I DESPISE) but there isn't a 'type' of person who is abused.


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## gabe135 (Dec 30, 2012)

*Break the cycle*



trey69 said:


> I'm sure the reasons vary, but my guess is mostly due to low self esteem, no self respect, etc. If you have been in an abusive situation, then after awhile you tart to believe you are worthless and can do no better than what you're already in. Some people believe they may get into something far worse if they leave. Many people actually justify why they stay, by saying things like, "But he is good to me at times", or "he buys me things, or he doesn't mean to, he is just stressed." Most people in abusive relationships will try to make excuses at some point for the other persons behavior. Same with people who stay with people who have addictions.
> 
> Money issues, and kids might be another reason in their mind as well. People who have been abused are usually so torn and damaged emotionally/mentally they no longer even think straight at times, and start to believe they deserve the treatment the are getting.
> 
> Its sad.


I totally agree with trey69. The abused has very low self esteem, no self confidence and is no doubt afraid to do anything for fear of another beating. I worked with a girl stuck in this cycle. Finally she met with professional help in this area, which led her to a group in the same situation and she saw the light. Finally she started documenting the situation (ER visits), photos, calling police (the guy will be arrested or a restraining order) and ultimately divorce. Now she is happy and her self confidence is there because she took the bull by the horns and exited the situation. NEVER hang on to an abusive marriage for the children. In fact the court will award her the children and she can take them to therapy and break the cycle of abuse. It takes guts but she can do it


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

YinPrincess said:


> Through it all, I missed my ex terribly. I cried for him every night - the old him. Before his "mom" died he'd been an exceptional companion. I've never had such a great, perfect relationship in all my life, or since. I see the relationship between my ex and I as two different relationships - the good and the bad.


Where is he now?
I think you mentioned that he did two years in prison?

Did you ever suggest counselling to him for his trauma and drug use?


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

As far as I know, he got married and was still on drugs.

I suggested counseling, therapy, medications, etc. when we were together those last two years... He wasn't receptive.

I wish the best for him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

On the flip side, Yin, I had never done any drugs (or drank) until I met my ex. I found out after we moved in together that he smoked pot. it got to the point were I WANTED him to smoke because at least he was mellow then. Not completely, but less likely to blow his top. I encouraged it. I did, too and used it as an escape mechanism. I could be complacent as long as I was stoned. But I stopped when pregnant and didn't do it in front of my daughter, then went back to work where I was drug tested so I was clearer in the head then.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

YinPrincess said:


> As far as I know, he got married and was still on drugs.
> 
> I suggested counseling, therapy, medications, etc. when we were together those last two years... He wasn't receptive.
> 
> ...


What about you Yin,
Have you been to counselling ?
Are you working on yourself?
Because the events you experienced were quite traumatic.
How are you coping?


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

EnjoliWoman said:


> On the flip side, Yin, I had never done any drugs (or drank) until I met my ex. I found out after we moved in together that he smoked pot. it got to the point were I WANTED him to smoke because at least he was mellow then. Not completely, but less likely to blow his top. I encouraged it. I did, too and used it as an escape mechanism. I could be complacent as long as I was stoned. But I stopped when pregnant and didn't do it in front of my daughter, then went back to work where I was drug tested so I was clearer in the head then.


I was always kind of liberal when it came to alcohol and drugs, but I never went overboard with it. Thank goodness the only thing I ever became addicted to was nicotine. Even though I was liberal, I still wasn't a regular user. One of my previous relationships was with a pot-head. Morning, noon and night and every place in between... I smoked with him maybe two or three times in our five year relationship. I liked my beer, (still do) so that was what I did on occasion.

My former ex, though... He was into speed... And I remember the first time I tried it... Talk about "focus and concentration". My med manager thinks I was drawn to stimulants because of undiagnosed ADHD. I didn't get all weirded out like my ex did. I cleaned, painted, sculpted, read and wrote poetry/short stories/journals. It really helped me settle down and access my naturally creative side. Later, (and I hate admitting this because it was so wrong), I would do a little before work for the extra energy and focus it gave me. I know, I know it was so bad. I had that job for two years... Loved it most days, hated it others.

When I saw how crazy my ex was becoming... I stopped doing it. Even when he had it and did it, I wouldn't touch it. I got so scared of turning out like him and losing my mind. I hate it - I know if he had not have starting doing it we may have still been together today, perhaps even married.

I guess that is for another lifetime. :/

Oh, and I'm glad to say I haven't done any drugs (other than alcohol) in several years now. It took some getting used to, but I'm adjusting to "normalcy" okay, I think. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anonim (Apr 24, 2012)

why do the abused stay with the abuser? Because they think there is nothing better for them, or that they cant do better, or that they dont have the right to have or want better.

Oftentimes they are taught this by the abuser.

This applies to men and to women.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

anonim said:


> why do the abused stay with the abuser? Because they think there is nothing better for them, or that they cant do better, or that they dont have the right to have or want better.


I don't know if I completely agree with this. While being abused I still knew I wanted and deserved and could get better... And yet I stayed. I still hold these same beliefs, even though I am married to a man who is verbally and emotionally cruel to me at times.

I think the answer is far more complex than that. :scratchhead:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Lot of interesting and sad stuff here.
Most of my sisters had abusive husbands and bf,some of them fought back to a point but stayed,they would leave sometimes but find another man who after awhile pretty much was like the one they did finally dump.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

Caribbean Man said:


> What about you Yin,
> Have you been to counselling ?
> Are you working on yourself?
> Because the events you experienced were quite traumatic.
> How are you coping?


I'm currently in IC. I've been going for a few months now and have been diagnosed with severe PTSD, Anxiety and Panic Attacks.

I had begun an "awareness" of all of this (based on my symptoms) prior to entering IC, and I've improved 10fold.

I have a hard time, in my marriage, separating what *was* done to me and what *is* being done to me.

My husband was a small step-up from my ex, but he still lacks a great deal of emotional maturity.

My ex was the only physically abusive relationship I've ever been in. Ironically, he very rarely verbally abused me. I honestly believed that he loved and cared for me but could not control his temper due to the substance abuse.

It's bittersweet. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

I wonder where the brothers,fathers,nephews or whoever male relative are when this garabage happens?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I had no male relatives. My dads shet on me and left. So...there's that.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

that_girl said:


> I had no male relatives. My dads shet on me and left. So...there's that.


I'm sorry.
Lot of heart wrentching stories here.
I could never dream of doing something to my wife like that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

In my family we all leave in different states... No family of my own. I actually just told my brother on Xmas Eve, and my stbxh's arrest was 8.5 yrs ago. My other brother doesn't know still, as it is a talk I would rather have in person. My dad knows something happened, but not what happened... My FIL was the one that bailed my ex out, and even said I should've called him instead of the police after I came to and walked out of the door barefoot / no glasses and drove squinting in the dark. Meanwhile my ex was l leaving VM he was going to killn me
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

Pepper123 said:


> In my family we all leave in different states... No family of my own lives in CA. I actually just told my brother on Xmas Eve, and my stbxh's arrest was 8.5 yrs ago. My other brother doesn't know still, as it is a talk I would rather have in person. My dad knows something happened, but not what happened... My FIL was the one that bailed my ex out, and even said I should've called him instead of the police after I came to and walked out of the door barefoot / no glasses and drove squinting in the dark. Meanwhile my ex was l leaving VM he was going to killn me
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

My "father" also divorced my mother after (his) numerous affairs.

My "step-dad" (who is really just my mother's roommate and "friend") came into my life shortly after. I love him more than my real father, hands down. He's been there for me all throughout MiddleSchool, puberty, first boyfriends, etc.

He's the man I call "Dad".

Actually, now that I think about it, my real dad was physically and verbally abusive towards my mother. Her parents were also alcoholics who regularly went to jail and beat up on one another. My grandfather on my mother's side is actually a murderer - killed someone in a bar fight, I believe... :/ 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Sorry to all you ladies.
My Dad was terrible to my Mom,I did stop it.
My wife had a bf that liked to shove and push her around.
Men who do this are cowards,they would'nt try it on another man,at least thats what I've noticed in my family.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

calvin said:


> I wonder where the brothers,fathers,nephews or whoever male relative are when this garabage happens?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Generally in the dark because the abuser is being protected by the abused. Sometimes come to the resque once but not repeatedly. Part of the dynamic.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

Yup, I had a hard time admitting it to anyone, even though they already knew. Sad.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

YinPrincess said:


> Yup, I had a hard time admitting it to anyone, even though they already knew. Sad.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah,very sad.
I feel that women and men alike sometimes enable themselves.
By being quiet or protecting the abuser or by trying to show everyone else that they have a good marriage.
My sisters all had different reasons for being quiet,well not true,every now and then some did speak up.
Five sisters...I could put a stop to it most of the time,sometimes I got my ass beat.
There are two that I can do nothing for anymore.
I swear,its like thats what they want...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

The cycle of abuse starts slowly and often imperceptibly. Over time, the abuser's possessive jealousy isolates the victim from family and friends, sometimes without the victim even knowing how the abuser achieved this.

Over a period of time, the abuse escalates from verbal, emotional and financial, but by the time that happens, the victim is already questioning his/her own sanity. In all likelihood they're depressed, debilitated and not in a healthy frame of mind.

By the time things turn physical, very often there are children in the equation and the victim doesn't have access to any finances. The abuser often makes sure this is the case, by preventing his victim from working.

It takes a lot of guts to leave an abusive relationship, but leaving is the only option. It might entail entering a women's centre / refuge for a period of time, but this is possibly the best thing that could happen, as most of them provide counseling along with access to pro bono lawyers.

Someone who stays with an abuser, despite having the means to leave and support systems in place, is in need of counseling to address their core issues.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

calvin said:


> I swear,its like thats what they want...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No one is more angered by this than abused women who have gotten out and look back on it.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

It's the last thing we want. I promise you that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> No one is more angered by this than abused women who have gotten out and look back on it.


I'm sorry,I ment no offense,these two sisters always seem to go with men like that,they are also addicts and I have tried my butt off to help.
I made my wife mad many times trying to do something,anything I could for my sisters.
My time was not spent enough with my family.
I had to let those two sisters go.
It was either that or my wife.
I didnt mean any harm.
I'll bow out of this thread,thank you all for the insight I have gained.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

They are addicts - there is much to be said about someone in an abusive relationship who also abuse substances... I would know.

A lot of people just think it as simple as A + B = C. Not so... There are often complicated formulas and circumstances that generate these types of relationships. Since many of your sisters have the same issue, I would question how far back that went into childhood, Calvin. (No offense - for what it's worth my younger sister has also married a man just like my husband... They are both pill addicts and liars)...

Another thing is: you cannot fight the fight for them. It never works, at least not to my knowledge. They have to figure it out on their own... Your support during that time is what's really needed then, because they may become vulnerable to going back, or even retaliation...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

calvin said:


> I'm sorry,I ment no offense,these two sisters always seem to go with men like that,they are also addicts and I have tried my butt off to help.
> I made my wife mad many times trying to do something,anything I could for my sisters.
> My time was not spent enough with my family.
> I had to let those two sisters go.
> ...


I don't think anyone took offense. I agree it sucks to see people you love self destructing and you're helpless to do much about it.


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

*“Why do Some Women Stay With Abusive Men?” *The answer for me is shame; toxic, debilitating shame and, the gradual destruction of my sense of self.

You see, the abuse built up gradually, over the course of 13 years. I have been asked if, in retrospect, there were any “signs” that my H might become abusive. While dating I can only remember one incident that I would considered abusive, it took the form of an extremely nasty/critical remark uttered in a venomous tone of voice. We were not arguing or in conflict at the time it occurred. Was this a “red flag”? Who can know? I had never tolerated disrespectful behavior from the men I dated and I did challenge him on the remark at the time.

We both are college educated and have technical careers. Immediately after marriage he stopped contributing to the maintenance of our daily lives … I hired house cleaners and handymen to do the things I couldn't or didn’t want to do myself. After marriage the sex stopped (his choice) at year 3, thereafter it occurred only when he wanted it which was 4 to 6 times per year. Next up, the daily criticism started … e.g. he didn’t like the way I ate, I swallowed too loudly, my grammar and pronunciation needed constant correction, any task I undertook needed supervision and correction, etc. He would become angry, suddenly and for reasons I could not understand several times per week. When angry he would yell, scream verbal abusive in my face, over-turn furniture and throw objects. I sought out counseling many times to learn how to communicate with him in order to figure out why he was so angry, nothing ever worked and the counselors said to keep trying. He consistently refused counseling of any type.

During all this time, something was happening to me and I did not realize it until recently … my self-esteem was being gradually destroyed; I call it the “death by 1000 cuts”. I was also so ashamed by what was happening in my own home that I could not tell anyone, not sisters, not my friends. The shame paralyses you into inaction. My current therapist says that I have PTSD and I am still working on ridding myself of the shame.


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## Ina (Dec 3, 2012)

calvin said:


> I'm sorry,I ment no offense,these two sisters always seem to go with men like that,they are also addicts and I have tried my butt off to help.
> I made my wife mad many times trying to do something,anything I could for my sisters.
> My time was not spent enough with my family.
> I had to let those two sisters go.
> ...


I think your reaction is important to this thread because it is real and does not come from a place of judgment but rather frustration. I mentioned my moms story, I was in an abusive relationship but left, and my best friend was in one and it didn't stop until one horrible night when he beat her close to her life in front of her child and subsequently hung himself. Throughout their relationship I stood from afar unable to get her to leave, knowing it would only get worse. To this day it has pulled us apart. I think if you have been there whilst someone you love is unable to make the decisions to secure their well being, you feel helpless and angry. What strikes me about the thread is how many men an women alike truly want to understand and help. The courage many have shown to share their testimonies and the respect and admiration others have shown. We can't go there without examining what are our biases and judgments are when it comes to this issue, especially when they come from a very personal place.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Red Sonja said:


> *“Why do Some Women Stay With Abusive Men?” *The answer for me is shame; toxic, debilitating shame and, the gradual destruction of my sense of self.
> 
> You see, the abuse built up gradually, over the course of 13 years. I have been asked if, in retrospect, there were any “signs” that my H might become abusive. While dating I can only remember one incident that I would considered abusive, it took the form of an extremely nasty/critical remark uttered in a venomous tone of voice. We were not arguing or in conflict at the time it occurred. Was this a “red flag”? Who can know? I had never tolerated disrespectful behavior from the men I dated and I did challenge him on the remark at the time.
> 
> ...


Are you still with him, Sonja? I truly hope not, but if you are your condition goes beyond PTSD, because you're still living with the source of it. If you're still with him, it might be a good idea for you to get the help and support of your local women's centre.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Cosmos said:


> The cycle of abuse starts slowly and often imperceptibly. Over time, the abuser's possessive jealousy isolates the victim from family and friends, sometimes without the victim even knowing how the abuser achieved this.
> 
> Over a period of time, the abuse escalates from verbal, emotional and financial, but by the time that happens, the victim is already questioning his/her own sanity. In all likelihood they're depressed, debilitated and not in a healthy frame of mind.
> 
> ...


Cosmos,
I really, reALLY , REALLY liked this post!
Your post sums it up and answers the perplexing question in my mind.
Especially the last [ highlighted ] part.
Solving the problem requires the victim accepts responsibility for one's own mistakes, knowing that the abuser's problem is HIS PROBLEM and not accepting ANY responsibility for it, and knowing the difference between the two.
I guess that's where professional help is needed.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Red Sonja said:


> *  I sought out counseling many times to learn how to communicate with him in order to figure out why he was so angry, nothing ever worked and the counselors said to keep trying.  He consistently refused counseling of any type.
> *


*
^^^^^
This part there is usually the saddest part of the commentary.
The victim, [woman ] blames herself and then decides to 
TRY HARDER.
They tend to think that something must be wrong with them because of the way he treats them.
Then when reality hits , these same women tend to continue blaming themselves for being " so stupid" for accepting the shabby treatment
They feel ashamed of themselves.
But the truth is that 
NONE OF THIS IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY OR YOUR FAULT.

IMO, the victim's responsibility is to seek counselling to fix the damage to their self esteem, and fix that part f them that allowed the abuser psychological power over them, so that it can never happen again.
Break the cycle.

But ,I may be wrong .*


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

calvin said:


> I'm sorry,I ment no offense,these two sisters always seem to go with men like that,they are also addicts and I have tried my butt off to help.
> I made my wife mad many times trying to do something,anything I could for my sisters.
> My time was not spent enough with my family.
> I had to let those two sisters go.
> ...


Calvin,
I'm in a situation with my only sister just like you.
She's younger than me and its only problems, problems,problems with abusive men.

And she has kids too.
My wife is becoming fed up of me running after her trying to
" fix " her , jumping up and running to answer her every call for help.

I will post more later.


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## SadSadWoman (Dec 30, 2012)

Red Sonja said:


> *“Why do Some Women Stay With Abusive Men?” *The answer for me is shame; toxic, debilitating shame and, the gradual destruction of my sense of self.
> 
> After marriage the sex stopped (his choice) at year 3, thereafter it occurred only when he wanted it which was 4 to 6 times per year. Next up, the daily criticism started … e.g. he didn’t like the way I ate, I swallowed too loudly, my grammar and pronunciation needed constant correction, any task I undertook needed supervision and correction, etc. He would become angry, suddenly and for reasons I could not understand several times per week. When angry he would yell, scream verbal abusive in my face, over-turn furniture and throw objects. I sought out counseling many times to learn how to communicate with him in order to figure out why he was so angry, nothing ever worked and the counselors said to keep trying. He consistently refused counseling of any type.QUOTE]
> 
> Red Sonja, your story echoes mine somewhat, though my husband is not physically aggressive - no breaking things or hitting me. The awful thing is he was the first guy I had met that I felt REALLY got me. I looked forward to seeing him. And then the first holiday when he blew his top because I had "interupted" him in his conversation with someone, when really all I was doing was contributing to the conversation. My enthusiasm was me being a "drama queen", my conversation wasn't interesting enough, dirty looks etc. I do believe it is not all his fault in my case though as I can be moody at times, but most of the time he explodes unexpectedly when I haven't done anything at all. I should have up and run after the holiday, but we had just moved in together and I made excuses. I can see he is holding in anger all the time - when he gets wound up he starts rubbing his head or he curls up in a ball. But as I mentioned earlier, he won't admit to ANY emotions and though I have asked him on several occassions to attend counselling, he refuses. I believe there is something in his past - some sort of abuse - but he won't talk about his childhood. And his brothers are like him, the one he is most like he doesn't talk to. His mother is also very secretive and wound up, with the veil of being polite and kind, but I can sense her contained anger. Currently we are not talking - usually 24 hours pass and he begins to talk to me and we sail back into the way things were before the fight. This time I am sooooooo angry and upset, I refuse to talk to him until he apologises and admits he has a problem. ANd maybe then we can work on saving our relationship. Otherwise, I will be asking him to move out, but not unitl I finish my Masters degree (I am a very mature student, lol!). I cannot afford counselling at the moment but hope to avail of support and professional help once my MSc is finished.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Red Sonja said:


> *“Why do Some Women Stay With Abusive Men?” *The answer for me is shame; toxic, debilitating shame and, the gradual destruction of my sense of self.
> 
> You see, the abuse built up gradually, over the course of 13 years. I have been asked if, in retrospect, there were any “signs” that my H might become abusive. While dating I can only remember one incident that I would considered abusive, it took the form of an extremely nasty/critical remark uttered in a venomous tone of voice. We were not arguing or in conflict at the time it occurred. Was this a “red flag”? Who can know? I had never tolerated disrespectful behavior from the men I dated and I did challenge him on the remark at the time.


Shame is a better explanation I couldn't put into words. I was ashamed to admit this was happening and I thought I could manage or change it.

Funny, I also remember the first "sign". I had spent the night at his apartment and was in the shower. He wanted to join me. I like my shower all to myself - I don't like being cold and wet in the back while someone else hogs the water. I told him simply "No, I don't like sharing a shower" and he went ballistic. He told me I was a 'cold fish' not willing to try anything new sexually (and we'd just had sex in the middle of the night). So I told him that wasn't the case I just didn't like being cold and wet. He pushed his way in the shower (just the tub w/ curtain) and washed quickly before rotating so I could get warm again. 

I should have seen being that rude and pushy and having to have his way did not show the level of consideration I deserved. I let it go. After all, it's just a shower, right?


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

SadSadWoman said:


> Red Sonja, your story echoes mine somewhat, though my husband is not physically aggressive - no breaking things or hitting me. The awful thing is he was the first guy I had met that I felt REALLY got me. I looked forward to seeing him. And then the first holiday when he blew his top because I had "interupted" him in his conversation with someone, when really all I was doing was contributing to the conversation. My enthusiasm was me being a "drama queen", my conversation wasn't interesting enough, dirty looks etc. I do believe it is not all his fault in my case though as I can be moody at times, but most of the time he explodes unexpectedly when I haven't done anything at all. I should have up and run after the holiday, but we had just moved in together and I made excuses. I can see he is holding in anger all the time - when he gets wound up he starts rubbing his head or he curls up in a ball. But as I mentioned earlier, he won't admit to ANY emotions and though I have asked him on several occassions to attend counselling, he refuses. I believe there is something in his past - some sort of abuse - but he won't talk about his childhood. And his brothers are like him, the one he is most like he doesn't talk to. His mother is also very secretive and wound up, with the veil of being polite and kind, but I can sense her contained anger. Currently we are not talking - usually 24 hours pass and he begins to talk to me and we sail back into the way things were before the fight. This time I am sooooooo angry and upset, I refuse to talk to him until he apologises and admits he has a problem. ANd maybe then we can work on saving our relationship. Otherwise, I will be asking him to move out, but not unitl I finish my Masters degree (I am a very mature student, lol!). I cannot afford counselling at the moment but hope to avail of support and professional help once my MSc is finished.


I forget his name here - but we have a male reformed abuser. He says leaving is the only way to shake up an abuser and get them to seek help to save the relationship.

You sound like you are in the US. I bet your academic advisor where you are getting your degree could offer some guidance as to where to get help. If not, your local United Way/United Family Services provides family and individual counseling on a sliding scale. When I was unemployed (well, temp work) they only charged me $7 for an hour session. When I was employed and insured, it went to $50. That was 8-10 years ago but it can't be much more now.


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## SadSadWoman (Dec 30, 2012)

EnjoliWoman said:


> I forget his name here - but we have a male reformed abuser. He says leaving is the only way to shake up an abuser and get them to seek help to save the relationship.
> 
> You sound like you are in the US. I bet your academic advisor where you are getting your degree could offer some guidance as to where to get help. If not, your local United Way/United Family Services provides family and individual counseling on a sliding scale. When I was unemployed (well, temp work) they only charged me $7 for an hour session. When I was employed and insured, it went to $50. That was 8-10 years ago but it can't be much more now.


You are all so kind here - it really helps to talk about what is going on. I am not in the US, but had forgotten about the possibility of the college counsellor providing support. Low cost counselling is hard to come by here - not as reasonable as you quoted, but also, I am reasonably well known and again, though I know it is confidential, I feel ashamed that I cannot deal with it or didn't spot it earlier. Need to go out - will catch up later


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

YinPrincess said:


> I'm currently in IC. I've been going for a few months now and have been diagnosed with severe PTSD, Anxiety and Panic Attacks.
> 
> *I had begun an "awareness" of all of this (based on my symptoms) prior to entering IC, and I've improved 10fold*.


Its good that you have decided to grab the bull by its horns.
Its good that " have improved 10 fold."

Hope you fully overcome all of your past demons so that you become stronger for your daughter.
It might seem hard today,
But someday like Enjoli Woman, you _would overcome_, and be able to look back and with confidence tell someone your story.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

Thanks, CM. I've come a long way from the "Victim Mentality" and I still have a long ways to go... But I'm glad that I'm better now than I was last year. Progress takes an enormous amount of time!! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Best Wishes in this New Year to you Yin and all the other ladies who bravely posted on this thread!

Please continue to contribute your stories, updates , suggestions and advice.
There are many others reading who might be in a similar position and I'm positive, 
Will also get encouragement.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

I can't answer for every one! For me it was FEAR! I stayed because I was afraid of what he would do. My ex told me several times that If i left him he would kill our son and make me watch him do it (sick and twisted).

Abuse starts gradually and gets worse the longer you stay. The first time my ex hit me I was already pregnant. Every time this would happen he would tell me it would never happen again. It always happened again. 

People like this kill your self esteem, self worth and self respect which makes them in complete control of you. They brain wash you into thinking that they actually love you and that no one ever will love you EXCEPT them.

I started fighting back and it It got worse. I went to stay with my aunt just to get away from him. He didn't know where she lived. I thought I was safe.. WRONG! He broke in my grandma and grandpa's house and got my aunts address and phone number, he had his sister call when I got the phone he told me if i didn't meet him he would burn down my aunts house with us in it!

He was sick and twisted. I was in fear for my life and my son's life. I finally was able to get away from him after 4 years of abuse. I had gotten many restraining orders against him, in which the cops wouldn't do anything about him coming around my house stalking me!! He was arrested and sent to jail, prison for 13 years. He can never come within 1000 feet of my oldest son or I for as long as we both live.

I still have nightmares


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

ladybird said:


> I can't answer for every one! For me it was FEAR! I stayed because I was afraid of what he would do. My ex told me several times that If i left him he would kill our son and make me watch him do it (sick and twisted).
> 
> Abuse starts gradually and gets worse the longer you stay. The first time my ex hit me I was already pregnant. Every time this would happen he would tell me it would never happen again. It always happened again.
> 
> ...


This guy was sick!

Was he always like that?
How did you eventually manage to get away from his reach?


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## in my tree (Jun 9, 2012)

Omg - ladybird!! Demented, psycho, sick, what other adjectives can we use?? I'm glad that you are here and I hope that your son is well too. Please let us know what happened.

Fear - that is a motivation to stay and I understand that too. I mean what wouldn't we do to protect our loved ones? I didn't know how dangerous my daughter's father (not my ex husband) was but found out years after we split that he had come to my parent's house (my baby daughter and I were staying with them after we had split) with a gun. He later told our then teenage daughter that he had rung the bell but no one had answered. If someone had, he was going to shoot first and ask questions later. Evidently he sold the gun soon after that to buy drugs and gave up on the idea of killing me.

I wonder why in the hell he ever told our daughter this and also where in the hell did I get my crappy taste in men from.


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## woman (Aug 19, 2011)

ladybird said:


> I can't answer for every one! For me it was FEAR! I stayed because I was afraid of what he would do. My ex told me several times that If i left him he would kill our son and make me watch him do it (sick and twisted).
> 
> Abuse starts gradually and gets worse the longer you stay. The first time my ex hit me I was already pregnant. Every time this would happen he would tell me it would never happen again. It always happened again.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry. Hugs.


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## SadSadWoman (Dec 30, 2012)

My heart goes out to all the strong women on this site - strong enough to survive the abuse and brave enough to make a change. To you and you loved ones I wish you every happiness, and that you may succeed in breaking the cycle of abuse for you and your children.


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