# Fitness Tests? Am I Passing?



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Got my wife moved home this weekend after a year long separation. Things are going very well so far.

Been watching for “tests” over the last week. Wondering if the following were “fitness tests” and if I'm passing?

8 year old daughter came and got in our bed at 2 or 3 am. I “kind of” woke up. Wife was coming out of the master bathroom, TV was still on – she seemed to be awake. She asked me to take daughter back to her room. I told her that she could do it since she was awake. Wife said she would just go sleep in our D’s room instead and left the room. Next day she talked about how poorly she slept. I explained that I would not wake her up to do something like that if I was already awake. She said she agreed, but she wanted me to make her feel welcomed back at home by taking our D back to her bed.

iPhone – was on the phone a bit more than usual one afternoon. I made a couple of brief comments regarding “if you have something better to do, perhaps you should go do it”. She said that her phone is her calendar, calculator, has her notes, etc. I replied that my experience with her spending too much time on the phone has not been good (texting other guys, etc,). She somewhat grumpily showed me her calendar – I successfully turned the conversation into a more pleasant one – focusing on what she’d gotten done and what “we” had left to do. After that – the phone was away for the rest of the evening.

Feel like I’m doing OK here. In both cases, there was no real argument and little emotion coming from my end. And in both cases, I basically got my way.

#1 – don’t wake me up to do something you can do if you are already awake; if you want to go sleep in another bed, that’s your choice.

#2 – I spoke my peace - she pushed back a bit but I didn't let it become a real argument; the phone was not an issue for the rest of the night or the next day;

Also - if sex is a good barometer to measure how things are going - then I would say things are better than they've been in a long time.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

My opinion will be trampled here and I'm thinking I don't know much of your back story but with the first, I would interpret that as you don't want to care for your daughter and would resent you.

On the second, sure, it makes sense but it sounds like you're nagging. 

OK, I know this won't go over well but just my take. 

On a side note, so happy you're back with your wife. I hope everything works out fabulously!


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Trenton said:


> My opinion will be trampled here and I'm thinking I don't know much of your back story but with the first, I would interpret that as you don't want to care for your daughter and would resent you.
> 
> On the second, sure, it makes sense but it sounds like you're nagging.
> 
> ...


Thx Trenton. I kind of get my wife's take on #1 - wanting to be welcomed back in a certain way and for me to handle things. While we were separated, my wife was in an apartment and the kids stayed overnight with me at the house 95% of the time. My wife was with them everyday after school for several hours - but I refused to leave the house OR to let the kids get too far out of my control. Not sure anyone who knows my situation can accuse me of not wanting to care for them. Also my wife isn't working and doesn't have to get up in the mornings.

2nd thing - didn't feel like I was nagging. Said something "twice" in about one hour. After the second statement we had a good discussion about what we had to do and I got my desired result.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

How did you feel about your responses? Were you comfortable with them?

Presuming for a moment that a year and half ago you would have allowed her to wake you to accomplish a task that she was capable of, or would have said nothing but resented her attention to the phone previously, I'd say you're doing great.

And congratulations, I sincerely hope that things work out for your entire family.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

nice777guy said:


> if you want to go sleep in another bed, that’s your choice.


I think you should have pulled a Big Bad Wolf moment here, and expressed how jealously you wanted her in your bed . I think it is important to show ongoing desire for your wife , especially now (why did she stray originally?) - or she might start thinking you dont care if she starts sleeping with the kids.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

NG,
Perfect move with the daughter thing. Simply a firm use of the golden rule. Any rational person would agree that if one is awake and the other is "asleep", the one who is awake does the brief task. I personally would find comments about "not caring about your daughter" highly insulting. You have been close to her sole care giver while your W went and did her own thing for over a year. 

The post below is a perfect example of an incredibly one sided viewpoint. You do almost 100 percent of the parenting work for over a year WHILE HOLDING DOWN A FULL TIME JOB and because you don't want to be woken up for a short task you get accused of not wanting to "care for your daughter". 

The phone thing is difficult. I have only one suggestion for you to try. Instead of starting with a complaint about her phone use, I would go directly to "hey lets do X where X is something you both enjoy OR I need your help with Y, where Y is some activity you are both responsible for. She will know what you are doing - and she will also likely respond positively. 

That said there are limits. If the phone comes out at dinner or other highly inappropriate times you will have to do something. Often a long, pointed, quizzical stare delivers a very clear message. Also the indignant but semi-comical "hey we are eating DINNER" might work. 

Clearly your W loves you and that means if you are firm and consistent she will likely stay the course.



Trenton said:


> My opinion will be trampled here and I'm thinking I don't know much of your back story but with the first, I would interpret that as you don't want to care for your daughter and would resent you.
> 
> On the second, sure, it makes sense but it sounds like you're nagging.
> 
> ...


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

MEM11363 said:


> NG,
> Any rational person would agree that if one is awake and the other is "asleep", the one who is awake does the brief task.


:iagree:


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Thanks to all.

MEM - not taking any offense from Trenton on the children situation as she doesn't know the background.

SA - interesting answer - not sure its right - but its interesting.

Deejo - I felt good about my responses. 18 months ago I would have followed her to the kid's bedroom asking her to come back to bed and tried to make peace. The phone used to (rightfully so) get me very upset and my response would often quickly turn to nagging/emotional/bossy, etc. Not sure yet what I might have done had she not responded positively to my second "hint" - but the fact is that she did the right thing and put it away and it lead us into a productive conversation about what needed to be done the next day.



MEM11363 said:


> NG,
> Perfect move with the daughter thing. Simply a firm use of the golden rule. Any rational person would agree that if one is awake and the other is "asleep", the one who is awake does the brief task. I personally would find comments about "not caring about your daughter" highly insulting. You have been close to her sole care giver while your W went and did her own thing for over a year.
> 
> The post below is a perfect example of an incredibly one sided viewpoint. You do almost 100 percent of the parenting work for over a year WHILE HOLDING DOWN A FULL TIME JOB and because you don't want to be woken up for a short task you get accused of not wanting to "care for your daughter".
> ...


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I think it is important to show ongoing desire for your wife , especially now (why did she stray originally?) - or she might start thinking you dont care if she starts sleeping with the kids.


This is a good point. I had been struggling with attraction and feeling like I didn't want sex for the last month or so. We never stopped having sex while separated - maybe a couple of times a month.

Earlier last week I initiated, but was truly just going through the motions. Yesterday though - things felt really good again. A lot of flirting during the day which lead to a wonderful evening.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

First off, NG, I would definitely say these are fitness tests. She is checking to see "...just how far can I manipulate him or make him do what I want when I want?" So from that point of view, I think you passed each fitness test in firmly but nicely telling her "...nope, not gonna be guilted into taking your stuff." Good Job!

Next, for fitness test #1. If you work and you were asleep...and she doesn't work and was awake, then her asking you to wake up to move your daughter is not very reasonable. I believe "no" was a reasonable response. I also think her attempt to "punish" you with "fine I'll sleep in D's bed then" was pretty childish but as you so rightly decided...her choice. 

I would suggest bearing one thing in mind--while your wife was gone, you and the kids bonded and she may have felt a little excluded. Thus I think if this were to all come down again and she said "fine I'll sleep in D's bed then" I'd recommend a response like: "I really would like to have you in our bed and teach D she will not come between us. Would you be willing to move D and come back to me?" This tells her what you want/need, why, and makes a request (versus telling her what to do). She's still free to make her own decision but at least you are letting her know she's welcome. 

For fitness test #2, regarding the phone, she has had a very bad history with misusing the phone so you are justified in your concern, yet it is my opinion that the way you went about it was a little controlling (as in attempting to make her do what YOU want and how much) so I have a suggestion on how to improve those kinds of exchanges. I recommend W-T-F-S. "When you...I Think.... I Feel.... So I'm going to request...." 

"When you spend a lot of time on the phone, I think about the the way things had been in the past, I feel a bit untrusting and afraid, so I'm going to ask if you'd be willing to stop for now and join me in making christmas ornaments, and request that maybe you consider a DayTimer rather than your phone for your schedule just as a way to reassure me." 

See how this states right out loud the behavior that's not okay with you, the way you feel and what you think (so you are sharing your True Self and being transparent), and you are asking for what you need? She's free to say yes or no, and to make an offer that would work for her like: "I really do like electronic schedules and contact lists, but maybe there is an electronic DayTimer device and I could use that instead of my phone since that has such bad memories for you." 

Overall :smthumbup: :smthumbup: you passed and did not let her cross your boundaries and you stood up for yourself. However, as you stand for you...remember to be thoughtful of her too. Okay?


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

nice777guy said:


> This is a good point. I had been struggling with attraction and feeling like I didn't want sex for the last month or so. We never stopped having sex while separated - maybe a couple of times a month.
> 
> Earlier last week I initiated, but was truly just going through the motions. Yesterday though - things felt really good again. A lot of flirting during the day which lead to a wonderful evening.


 The Last month or so!!! That is alot of struggling !

I am only speaking out of my own experiences/desires of coarse. I know what I like & I love to feel "wanted". I may have my issues with SOME of BBW's message but the one about "jeolously" pursuing your wife's attentions , showing all that desire to be with her. Da** he is right on. Men should do this -always. 

The other night, after we watched a movie together, My husband was ready to go to sleep, so I left to get on the net , I come to bed about 2:00am & he lets me know I left without saying goodnight with a kiss (didn't realize it at all !), he was expecting me to come right back. He layed there waiting for me, I had no idea. Not that he was all bent out of shape, but I loved hearing that it bothered him a bit ! 

Maybe I am slipping in my affections, he said something similar a week before -how I was off doing something else, but he wanted me with him. I love hearing that ! Maybe some women would feel it is a nag, but NOT ME!


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Thanks AC and SA.

I'm sure the attraction issue is mostly mental or emotional and directly related to our issues over the last year.

I recognize that I need to work both on my boundaries and on making my wife feel loved and wanted so that we never have to go through anything like this again.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

NG, I didn't know that you had the kids 95% of the time. In that case, I'd say you absolutely did the right thing.

It does sound like you're doing beautifully.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

I have not read the other responses. Maybe I am covering already covered ground, but I wanted to respond unbiased. Bear in mind I don't really know your back story.

Unless there is something ELSE going on, the firm but kind no wrt to the daughter request seems right on. It sounds to me like sleeping in with her is a tad of a temper tantrum. Sleeping poorly once in a while is the lot of the parent. And if she was already awake... 

The phone thing...Given things are ok between DH and I, I might have said something more like "Gee honey, I sure would like you to pay attention to me instead of the phone." But I can see being touchy about it if it was the vehicle for former bad (have I mentioned I HATE cheating?) behavior. 

I didn't really follow the whole groups' "fitness test" thing. So I don't really know what that means. But it seems to me that there was nothing unsuccessful, weird, ineffective or otherwise stupid in your exchange. Got the desired results too, it sounds like.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> Thanks AC and SA.
> 
> I'm sure the attraction issue is mostly mental or emotional and directly related to our issues over the last year.
> 
> I recognize that I need to work both on my boundaries and on making my wife feel loved and wanted so that we never have to go through anything like this again.


NG,

Another woman here wants to stress the importance of helping your wife feel loved by you. She needs a lot of your attention and good compliments. 

My husband just showers me with attention and good compliments every day, he really helps me become confident and secure. 

And also don't be afraid to challenge your wife, be firm, speak out your mind, don't try to put up with her if she isn't being considerate, remember, you have to be happy first, then you have energy and mood to make her happy!  And when she sees that she can't push you around anymore, she starts to respect you! That's what happened between my husband and me.

My husband is never afraid to tell me that I am wrong when he thinks I am wrong. He tells me what he thinks about what I have said and did, he doesn't try to put up with me just because I am his wife, but he is always using a calm voice when he talks to me. He doesn't try to belittle me either, he just tells me what he thinks and he lets me think..................


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

Nice777guy,

Excellent job!

FIrst, these are definitly fitness tests, on that be sure.

The bedroom scenario, do not be afraid to not only say "no" and calmly state your clearly reasonable requests to not be woken up unnecessarily. 

As well, to SimplyAmorous's point, do not be afraid to tell your woman exactly what you want and expect as well. Knowing a fitness test, is also someting undercurrent in a woman's mind (does my man want/need/desire me, etc), so in this way, it is often effective to ignore the details of the "test", and simply say what you are wanting. 

For example, some response I would have be known to give is similiar to "It's late woman, put (daughter) in bed, and bring your sexy ass back to bed". So in this way you pass the test, display dominance, but on the flip side, you also kill insecurity inside your woman by expressing that you do want her in bed with you, and she is desirable to you.

Avoid any interaction as if she is your mother, and you her child. Instead, make sure fitness tests wind up with your woman seeing you as a man, in control of himself, and as well, your desires and expectations are communicated. 

Be over the top, much humor, do not be afraid to use these things! 

WHen you can express your wishes and desires, say "no", tell your woman what you expect, and do all these with leaving a smile on her face, then you knowing you're doing it right!  

I wish you well.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

plastic899 said:


> This is extremely inappropriate behavior for an eight year old child.


What is an 8 year old supposed to do if s/he has a bad dream? My dd has occasional bad dreams. She comes to my bed, we cuddle. Then she goes back to bed on her own. I am lucky that I don't have to get up. She comes to bed, I ask her if she had a dream. She says yes. I cuddle her for a few minutes. Then I ask if she is ready to go back to bed. Some kids would be scared to walk back to bed by themselves though. So can see walking them back to bed and staying until they felt safe.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

vthomeschoolmom said:


> What is an 8 year old supposed to do if s/he has a bad dream? My dd has occasional bad dreams. She comes to my bed, we cuddle. Then she goes back to bed on her own. I am lucky that I don't have to get up. She comes to bed, I ask her if she had a dream. She says yes. I cuddle her for a few minutes. Then I ask if she is ready to go back to bed. Some kids would be scared to walk back to bed by themselves though. So can see walking them back to bed and staying until they felt safe.


Thanks VT. Wasn't even going to address it. Its tough to be 8 sometimes - especially when your 11 year old sister likes to try to spook you right before bedtime.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

I have a 10 year old boy who still wants to sleep with the light on sometimes. I have a 5 year old boy that only just got in his own bed right before his 5th birthday and a 14 year old who is fiercly independent but requires constant help with her homework to maintain all A's & B's in school. I think it's admiral that it was a no-brainer that someone had to get up to comfort your 8 year old. That's the stuff secure adults are made up of


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## lime (Jul 3, 2010)

Agreed. I think kids who are truly scared--and want their parents so much that they’ll risk walking through a scary dark hallway to get to their parents’ room--do need attention. It’s like if kids are sick enough to _want_ to go to the hospital and risk getting a finger prick, then you know something’s really wrong. My parents had a rule similar to this one--I wasn’t allowed into their room unless it was a real emergency or I was really upset. I got used to comforting myself if I had a nightmare, because I knew that they would be there for me if I couldn’t make myself feel better. On the rare times when I was really scared, it was nice having my parents there. I think it encouraged me to be independent without traumatizing me haha.

I don’t think it’s appropriate for an 8-year-old to be sleeping in your bed, though. I think it’s one of those situations where she should get to cuddle and feel better and then be led back to her own bed. Letting her fall asleep with you is probably not the best choice; it can create some sleeping problems for her if it happens frequently, or it can cause her to be made fun of if her friends/other siblings find out and are looking for a way to tease her. It can also create issues for your sex life if you’re not careful (although it doesn’t seem like it would be that big of a problem). 

Anyway, I think you did a great job with the first “test” involving your daughter. The iPhone thing made sense, but could have gone better without the snotty comment bringing up the past. That’s just personally one of my pet peeves though; if I’m trying to be positive and move on, I don’t like being dragged backwards in time to things I already apologized for, regret, etc. I'd advise you to be careful and try not to be passive aggressive about her past transgressions--it can make it hard to move forward if you dwell on the past and expect her to do penance for her previous actions... Not to mention it's not fair to guilt her about things she can't change. Also, if you keep treating her as if she were still the bad person that she was before she changed, then she has no incentive to put effort into being better. I'm not accusing you of this, but just wanted to say something in case it made a difference. I've had some minor problems in my relationship relating to that sort of thing, when my boyfriend will bring up stuff from the past. It helps to be positive and proactive and focused on establishing new habits rather than dwelling on what can't be changed.

I also didn’t get what was such a big deal that she was messing with the phone? I guess it is irritating if you’re trying to talk to someone and they’re busy with electronics. Maybe she doesn’t get it either and you can say something like “it’s nice to hang out with you when you’re attention isn’t divided between me and the phone.” But yea the end of that conversation seemed good.

I hope things continue to go well for you!


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

The phone issue revolves around my wife using the phone over the last 18 months - on and off - to hide many different "friendships" with other men. I'm still not sure how to define what she did - or if I know the full extent of what was truly going on - but I think it was _mostly_ cyber-flirting and attention seeking.

The advice that I consistently received from this site was to demand transparency with the phone, passwords, e-mail, etc. However, I am "trying" to give her reasonable space and privacy.

In a perfect world, my wife would offer to be as open as necessary to make me feel better about things. And if I had access to what she was doing, I wouldn't be left with a nervous feeling when she starts spending too much time on the phone.

Right now I'm going with my gut in regards to this kind of trust. 

The other night, when I asked about the phone, she was a bit aggravated. But in the past she was downright angry and defensive if I asked her what she was doing.

The other night she actually showed me what she was doing on her phone, and then she put it away for the evening. In the past, she would simply keep it close to her body and try to hide it from my sight.

One more quick observation:
A couple of people jumped on Trenton's initial response about me not wanting to care for my child. I was able to easily blow this off because I knew Trenton didn't know my history, and I knew that her statement was nowhere close to the truth.

In contrast, when accused of being passive aggressive or controlling about the phone, I can feel myself wanting to be defensive. That defensive feeling comes from self-doubt - wondering if I am handling things properly.

Of course in the end, the validation that I've done the right things the right way won't come from the people on this board - it will come from my wife.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

OK. Maybe we should have left that parenting one alone after all. 

NG, if my husband cheated on me I'd be all over that phone and demand 100% transparency. Don't know if this would push him away or pull him close but I am thinking in my upset I wouldn't care too much. After the dust settles I imagine it is confusing and hard to figure out what is or isn't too much. I'm not sure I could forgive him.

If your wife doesn't come around and see how awesome you are I am going to beat her to a bloody pulp (I kid, I kid). You deserve confidence, a great sex life and respect. I don't have any doubt about this.

Basically, I commented on your life without even bothering to investigate and get backs tory so I was completely ignorant of your personal situation. That makes my advice pretty much null and void but doesn't change the fact that you deserve respect, confidence and a great sex life.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Plastic, not having parents that help you when you need it, guide you when you need it and provide support/comfort when you need it is how you end up with butts like you. 

I'm joking but only because I realize I don't know you so it'd be pretty butt headed of me to say that at this point. We disagree in parenting styles. I'm cool with this. I adore my kids and who they are becoming and lucky for me they are my kids.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

plastic899 said:


> It was not my intent to hurt your feelings. I guess we do have different styles.
> 
> My focus though is on the eight year old child in niceguy's family. This preoccupation with "fitness tests" and the like is trivial in comparison to what is best for the children involved.
> 
> ...


He has differing views on what's best for the child so that is secondary because he's already confident in how to deal with that issue. Just because it doesn't jive with what you'd do doesn't mean it's not his right as a parent to accept that it works for their daughter and is the right choice for them.

His wife just moved back, I don't think it's weird that he's focused on the dynamics. He loves her and wants his relationship to work. I think it's 100% normal.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Speaking for one who used to allow ALL of my 6 babies to sleep between me & my husband -because I was stupid & he was too passive to say much of anything about it, we have new rules. 

If any of my kids need to be near me in the middle of the night-because of a bad dream, lightning, etc - they now know their place is on the floor -near my bed, but NOT in our bed. We have a nice carpet and plenty of covers & pillows. I may go down & cuddle them for a short time, and sometimes they may fall asleep there, but NO MORE CHILDREN IN OUR BED, unless daddy is out of town -which thankfully never happens.


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## lime (Jul 3, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> The phone issue revolves around my wife using the phone over the last 18 months - on and off - to hide many different "friendships" with other men. I'm still not sure how to define what she did - or if I know the full extent of what was truly going on - but I think it was _mostly_ cyber-flirting and attention seeking.
> 
> The advice that I consistently received from this site was to demand transparency with the phone, passwords, e-mail, etc. However, I am "trying" to give her reasonable space and privacy.
> 
> ...


I apologize if I was being too accusatory--that wasn't my intention. I guess I was just trying to "warn" you that bad stuff could happen if you went down that path because it's happened to me. Now I understand about the phone and why you were uncomfortable and that makes total sense. I think I just assumed that she was 100% trustworthy now that she was back, which obviously isn't necessarily the case. I thought that you were trying to be sarcastic/rude with the comment about having problems in the past, when it was actually a legitimate concern. I would still caution you against being passive aggressive, sarcastic, etc. about things like that if you are ever tempted in the future though, but I understand now that you weren't doing that with your comment. I think I just projected too many of my own problems onto that scenario haha


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

plastic899 said:


> All niceguy seems to be concerned about is whether he is winning his fitness test with his wife.
> 
> Who cares?
> 
> If he is satisfied with his parenting, who cares what his wife thinks?


Plastic,

I DO feel pretty good about myself as a parent, which is why I've not been responding directly to your posts. I don't really feel the need to ask a lot of questions on a marriage board about my parenting skills.

My relationship with my wife, however, has become heavily strained, so I'm trying to put more of my energy towards making my marriage stronger. And its not about "winning" - but responding appropriately.

Hopefully a stronger marriage will translate into a happier, stronger family with happier, stronger children.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

lime said:


> I apologize if I was being too accusatory--that wasn't my intention. I guess I was just trying to "warn" you that bad stuff could happen if you went down that path because it's happened to me. Now I understand about the phone and why you were uncomfortable and that makes total sense. I think I just assumed that she was 100% trustworthy now that she was back, which obviously isn't necessarily the case. I thought that you were trying to be sarcastic/rude with the comment about having problems in the past, when it was actually a legitimate concern. I would still caution you against being passive aggressive, sarcastic, etc. about things like that if you are ever tempted in the future though, but I understand now that you weren't doing that with your comment. I think I just projected too many of my own problems onto that scenario haha


Agreed - that's why I'm looking for feedback. In the past - when I knew what was going on - I was possibly too aggressive and emotional. Took a little time to figure out that getting mad about it was getting me nowhere.


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## InRecoveryInNC (Oct 22, 2010)

plastic899 said:


> ....This preoccupation with "fitness tests" and the like is trivial in comparison to what is best for the children involved.
> 
> All niceguy seems to be concerned about is whether he is winning his fitness test with his wife.
> 
> Who cares?


I don't know your background so this may have no merit whatsoever, but _"this preoccupation with fitness tests"_ commment seems a bit far removed from the purpose of what this board is for, especially after viewing the title of this post.

Yes, overall the well-being of the child is most important and even though NG brought it up, it wasn't the focus of what is at hand. However, if this child's parents relationship is not forging ahead in a positive encouraging direction, that could possibly have more of a negative effect on the child in the long run.

If your relationship with your significant other doesn't need any improvement or work to become a better relationship for you two than the 'fitness test' isn't important.

However, if you are coming here to work on bettering an already good relationship or simply trying to work your way back to mending a broken/scarred relationship then getting some feedback is definitely needed.

To keep oneself and ones relationship from going back to what the cause of hurt was that led to the pain, as an individual it is a MUST to seek advice and opinions from others that are looking from the outside in, especially if they have been involved in something similar. It is always helpful to hear from others that can share both the negative and positive effects of either ignoring the fitness tests or embracing the strength it takes to work through them.

It is also very important to 'know' when you are being fitness tested and when you are subconsciously testing your SO as we all need to grow from what ends up being the cause of hurt for someone else or what is a trigger of hurt/pain for oneself. 

Again, this is of course if you are wanting to grow in your relationship and if you are trying to build a stronger til death do us part partnership. Otherwise, you are correct it may not seem to be that big of a deal.


This again is not an attack just a simple observation regarding not focusing on one small part of a discussion but keeping everything in the context of the complete content of the post. 

No disrepect intended to anyone.


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## r2d210 (Nov 3, 2010)

NG, thanks for sharing. I love this forum for so many reasons, but I love hearing real scenerios, with examples of how men should behave! Every bit of advice is so good to hear. It is truly my daily encouragement!


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Speaking of tests and passing...I am now a Yellow belt in Judo!


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Congrats!


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

Trenton said:


> My opinion will be trampled here and I'm thinking I don't know much of your back story but with the first, I would interpret that as you don't want to care for your daughter and would resent you.
> 
> On the second, sure, it makes sense but it sounds like you're nagging.
> 
> ...


I think this fitness test, Alpha male, and dominance stuff is hillarious!! I think many make this stuff way too complicated like someone is keeping score or something. 

Have fun, live, laugh, have lots of sex, be each others everything, bend don't break, sacrifice, talk, talk talk talk and talk some more, all of this stuff just seems like games to me.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

OhGeesh said:


> I think this fitness test, Alpha male, and dominance stuff is hillarious!! I think many make this stuff way too complicated like someone is keeping score or something.
> 
> Have fun, live, laugh, have lots of sex, be each others everything, bend don't break, sacrifice, talk, talk talk talk and talk some more, all of this stuff just seems like games to me.


Women often marry hoping for security.

Men often marry hoping for "desire".

How to reconcile the two is the real marriage fitness test.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

OhGeesh said:


> Have fun, live, laugh, have lots of sex, be each others everything, bend don't break, sacrifice, talk, talk talk talk and talk some more, all of this stuff just seems like games to me.


Sounds simple - and it should be.

The other night at Judo the instructor's wife peeked her head and the door and said she would be over in "room b" or something - just reminding him. As she left, he chuckled and said that what she really meant was "You promised to take me to dinner tonight - don't forget." He joked that his "ninja" mindreading skills (joke) had helped him stay married for nearly 20 years.

My mother in law - I love her - but any time we call and ask her to help with the kids on a given day, her response is to tell me EVERYTHING that she has going on that day. I've learned to just let her go and ramble a bit before I start repeating "So, is that a 'Yes' or do we need to make other plans?" My wife says my MIL is laying a guilt trip on us. I don't see it that way - but if that is truly the case - she should just say "I can't do it."

Fitness tests - or whatever - some people just aren't direct.

I keep thinking about some of the things that others have posted recently about fitness tests. Wondering if the best approach isn't to see it as a game, but to simply look past the test and be as direct and straightforward as possible - which would likely "disarm" you spouse. Refuse to play the game - kind of like I do with my MIL. Sit - listen - wait - and then just re-ask as direct as possible. If she says 'yes' even though she has 100 things to do, it's still her choice, and I'm not going to feel any guilt.

And back to R2 and the infamous "Dishwasher Incident of 2010" - I still think you finish emptying the thing and clean up the mess because it's what you were doing. The second that someone else steers you off of your course - no matter how insignificant the destination - seems like you've sent them the message that they have control - and you are sucked into the game.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

"Dishwasher Incident of 2010"


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## r2d210 (Nov 3, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> Sounds simple - and it should be.
> 
> 
> And back to R2 and the infamous "Dishwasher Incident of 2010" - I still think you finish emptying the thing and clean up the mess because it's what you were doing. The second that someone else steers you off of your course - no matter how insignificant the destination - seems like you've sent them the message that they have control - and you are sucked into the game.


NG, that incident truly changed my life for the better. I can't begin to tell you the amazing events that have taken place since I posted that thread. I'm a new man, and I havn't been this happy since the beginning days of my marriage. Your advice along with the others on this board was/is amazing. I understand your point about not beeing steered off course. I havn't touched a dish since that day and my W hasn't asked me to. I think it is truly her domain and she feels it is her responsiblity to take care of the dishes. I was "trying" to help by being "nice", thinking that would get me "good points, and more sex"! Now, by staying away, she is happy and I'm content watching her a** wiggle as she puts the dishes away and wisk water off the floor! In addition, I have had way more sex, and the not only quantity, but QUALITY! It's as if she has been begging the alpha in me to come out....and she loves it! I'm still an active Beta, but I absolutely love being the Alpha. Even the dog listens to me now! I've said this before, but I sure wish I had known this years ago. Being a doormat has got me nothing but frustration. In addition, I'm so very, very lucky some alpha didn't steal her from me while I was at home doing the dishes! I don't think I will have to worry about that any time soon!


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

OhGeesh said:


> I think this fitness test, Alpha male, and dominance stuff is hillarious!! I think many make this stuff way too complicated like someone is keeping score or something.
> 
> Have fun, live, laugh, have lots of sex, be each others everything, bend don't break, sacrifice, talk, talk talk talk and talk some more, all of this stuff just seems like games to me.


I have ALWAYS identified with OhGeesh's posts - I think our marriages & communication with our spouses are strikingly similar. I too think like this, I often see these things as "games". 

But I guess, if something it not working & communcation is falling by the wayside time & time again, the sex has went sour, these ideas can hold Great Promise & HOPE for many (look at r2d10-WOW!!) -over being miserable, separating or divorce. 

I think even I have done this fitness testing thing many times -but never knew I was doing it. My husband probably doesn't always pass either, but oh well, I still love him. 

I still find it interesting.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Rd,

Actually, you may want to do the dishes now and then. But, only when she isn't feeling well - or is extremely busy with other things.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Conrad said:


> Rd,
> 
> Actually, you may want to do the dishes now and then. But, only when she isn't feeling well - or is extremely busy with other things.


I disagree - and its well documented that Conrad is a retard.

Be elusive - like bigfoot.

Don't even let her see you unless you are completely naked and ready for her to please you.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

I swear you got to be making this $hit up. It's too funny for words to me. Am I alone in thinking one cannot take a dishwasher scene, have a revelation and transform their life in the span of a few weeks?

You should follow NG's advice. That will definitely add to your already suddenly fantastic life. I really do wish my husband were more like bigfoot and naked all the time. I'd enjoy all the pointing and laughing that would take place daily & nightly if we got lucky enough to steal a glimpse of him that is.


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## r2d210 (Nov 3, 2010)

Trenton said:


> I swear you got to be making this $hit up. It's too funny for words to me. Am I alone in thinking one cannot take a dishwasher scene, have a revelation and transform their life in the span of a few weeks?
> 
> You should follow NG's advice. That will definitely add to your already suddenly fantastic life. I really do wish my husband were more like bigfoot and naked all the time. I'd enjoy all the pointing and laughing that would take place daily & nightly if we got lucky enough to steal a glimpse of him that is.


Trenton, thanks for your input! I'm not saying it's over and done! Yes it was a revelation, and yes, it is a transformation, but there are years of undoing here yet to be done. It's not her, it is me! It is changes I have made and the response she has made to me that have been so wonderful! You have to understand where I was versus where I'm at.....and better yet, where I'm going. I love my wife and she loves me. But it's the little things that have made a difference. From being indecisive on where to eat out....(fear of saying the wrong place...) to telling her where I want to eat. This is new and what can I say....it has been positive....funny to you or not! BBW did say that these small changes can make a difference very quickly....


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

r2d210 said:


> Trenton, thanks for your input! I'm not saying it's over and done! Yes it was a revelation, and yes, it is a transformation, but there are years of undoing here yet to be done. It's not her, it is me! It is changes I have made and the response she has made to me that have been so wonderful! You have to understand where I was versus where I'm at.....and better yet, where I'm going. I love my wife and she loves me. But it's the little things that have made a difference. From being indecisive on where to eat out....(fear of saying the wrong place...) to telling her where I want to eat. This is new and what can I say....it has been positive....funny to you or not! BBW did say that these small changes can make a difference very quickly....


Sorry, I just am a doubtful sort. If it works for you, goodness.


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## r2d210 (Nov 3, 2010)

Trenton said:


> Sorry, I just am a doubtful sort. If it works for you, goodness.


I have put 100% of my time and effort into no longer being a doormat. Without saying anything to her, I have literally given an ultimatim that this is changing or It's over. The unacceptable behavior is no longer acceptable. I have settled with the fact that I'm willing to walk. It's been simply standing up for myself and this has truly been attractive to her! Not mean, but firm. I have failed several times, but I at least recognize what happened and I try to make steps to make sure I pass the next time. I've been to the gym every day since my post. She is now working out. This is major....she does not like to sweat. If I painted a picture that is crazy abnormal, what can I say? I no longer care about trying to get her approval. She has sensed my changes, as it is obvious to her and everyone. I'm done being a doormat....


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Trenton said:


> Sorry, I just am a doubtful sort. If it works for you, goodness.



A lot of people don’t have personal boundaries, essentially an INTOLERANCE of the “dysfunctional” behaviour of their significant others AND their own dysfunctional behaviour. They have quite simply become way too tolerant.

Which eventually leads to MASSIVE COMPROMISES to such an extent that life can become truly miserable and unrewarding.

In that type of scenario we truly lose a sense of “self”. We recognise we’re not being “who we are meant to be”.

Once an INTOLERANCE of a behaviour that was TOLERATED for a very long time is “declared” change can come about almost over night, in the “blink of an eye” so to speak.

By erecting personal boundaries we not only feel an immensely changed person, our significant other also “sees” an immensely changed person and hence the changes in the marriage come about very rapidly.

Bob


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

You two gents are much more tolerant of mocking than I am.


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## r2d210 (Nov 3, 2010)

Conrad, point well taken...


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

r2d210 said:


> I have put 100% of my time and effort into no longer being a doormat. Without saying anything to her, I have literally given an ultimatim that this is changing or It's over. The unacceptable behavior is no longer acceptable. I have settled with the fact that I'm willing to walk. It's been simply standing up for myself and this has truly been attractive to her! Not mean, but firm. I have failed several times, but I at least recognize what happened and I try to make steps to make sure I pass the next time. I've been to the gym every day since my post. She is now working out. This is major....she does not like to sweat. If I painted a picture that is crazy abnormal, what can I say? I no longer care about trying to get her approval. She has sensed my changes, as it is obvious to her and everyone. I'm done being a doormat....



Ha! You caned me for calling you a doormat laugh out loud!!!

Well done buddy.

Bob


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

AFEH said:


> A lot of people don’t have personal boundaries, essentially an INTOLERANCE of the “dysfunctional” behaviour their significant others AND their own behaviour. They have quite simply become way too tolerant.
> 
> Which eventually leads to MASSIVE COMPROMISES to such an extent that life can become truly miserable and unrewarding.
> 
> ...


This all makes sense. From the initial description of his wife I thought she would struggle against change before acceptance so I thought the process would take time. Generally both good and bad change take adjusting to for most people. 

I lack personal boundaries when it comes to my husband, it's something I struggle with myself but I'm not sure it's a problem. I enjoy being consumed by the relationship. It might be the reverse when it comes to men? Women dislike men who are consumed with them because they see it as a weakness? Although I would say my husband is consumed by me as well and I don't find it a sign of weakness but rather dedication. Maybe it is how the lack of personal boundaries manifests itself in behaviors?


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## r2d210 (Nov 3, 2010)

I have been "consumed" by her since the beginning. I'm actually really embarrased to say that now. Honestly, I thought that was how marriage was and should be! I felt that was the way it was going to be for the rest of my life. I'd eat 10 yards of her crap and tell her to her face I loved it, if I thought I had chance at getting sex that night! So, so sad....but you can see how that is such a turn off.....following her around like a puppy, trying to lick up the crumbs. I have never had a personal boundary with her. It is so unnatractive and I see that now. UGLY!


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Conrad said:


> You two gents are much more tolerant of mocking than I am.


It’s ok Trenton’s learning, at least that’s what I think. If there’s even a mild form of borderline or bipolar I forget which you said Trenton, then there will be a problem with personal boundaries, it goes with the territory.

Bob


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

AFEH said:


> It’s ok Trenton’s learning, at least that’s what I think. If there’s even a mild form of borderline or bipolar I forget which you said Trenton, then there will be a problem with personal boundaries, it goes with the territory.
> 
> Bob


I said borderline and I do think that's an ongoing issue. I am trying and I am learning but it is difficult.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

r2d210 said:


> I have been "consumed" by her since the beginning. I'm actually really embarrased to say that now. Honestly, I thought that was how marriage was and should be! I felt that was the way it was going to be for the rest of my life. I'd eat 10 yards of her crap and tell her to her face I loved it, if I thought I had chance at getting sex that night! So, so sad....but you can see how that is such a turn off.....following her around like a puppy, trying to lick up the crumbs. I have never had a personal boundary with her. It is so unnatractive and I see that now. UGLY!


Yeah, that's not what I meant by consumed though. That sounds like a miserable place to be for you and I could see how a woman would find that unattractive. That's like a lap dog but that's all it is. Friction and affection goes both ways between the couple is what I'm trying to describe.

Do you run in the mornings now or just opted for the gym?


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Trenton said:


> This all makes sense. From the initial description of his wife I thought she would struggle against change before acceptance so I thought the process would take time. Generally both good and bad change take adjusting to for most people.
> 
> I lack personal boundaries when it comes to my husband, it's something I struggle with myself but I'm not sure it's a problem. I enjoy being consumed by the relationship. It might be the reverse when it comes to men? Women dislike men who are consumed with them because they see it as a weakness? Although I would say my husband is consumed by me as well and I don't find it a sign of weakness but rather dedication. Maybe it is how the lack of personal boundaries manifests itself in behaviors?



R2s wife has responded exceptionally well and it’s a delight to see.

My wife just trashed my new boundaries, crashed straight through them. I think she could see she was “no longer going to get away with it” and it gave her a terrific problem. It also told me she had no respect whatsoever for my boundaries and I wasn’t prepared to tolerate that. It’s that INTOLERANCE thing.

Bob


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## r2d210 (Nov 3, 2010)

Trenton, I mentioned all the changes. I have not only stood up for myself to her, I have also made several major changes with people outside the marriage. I dropped sitting as a member on a board because the board itself was powerless and ineffective. I've been there for over three years. My W immediately saw that and was shocked because I did not ask for her input, and better yet....her permission. I turned down several asks to "fill-in" for people that I would have said yes previously to. See, I was the guy everyone went to to get help. I couldn't say "no", because I needed to fix their problem! She has seen this all in the last several weeks and she respects me for making those decisions. I was previously always concerned about what people thought of me, therefore, I couldn't say no! Not even to the door-to-door salesmen. I'm sick of being someone I'm not.....hope that additional information helps explain that although I have a long ways to go, I'm very excited about the progress I've already seen....


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

AFEH said:


> R2s wife has responded exceptionally well and it’s a delight to see.
> 
> My wife just trashed my new boundaries, crashed straight through them. I think she could see she was “no longer going to get away with it” and it gave her a terrific problem. It also told me she had no respect whatsoever for my boundaries and I wasn’t prepared to tolerate that. It’s that INTOLERANCE thing.
> 
> Bob


Yes, that's what I was saying. I was putting myself in R2's wife's shoes and I thought...I would fight it and have to evaluate how important the relationship was to me so that I could decide if I was ready to take it in a new direction. I don't think I would instantly smile at the newfound man.

Tolerance is not always a good thing. If we have to give up so much of ourselves to be in a relationship then what is there to be gained or even enjoyed.


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## r2d210 (Nov 3, 2010)

I'm at the gym every day. I take a bodypump class, a weight class, a spin class and I run on top of that. I leave the house at 5:00a.m. and I'm home by 7:00. I do a long trail run on the weekend. I'm not overweight, I weigh about 160. I have put on a little muscle, but she has noticed that also, which is why I think she has decided to get active. She has struggled a little with her weight......, however I woudn't say she is overweight at all.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Who is "borderline"?

Or then again, who isn't, except for those of us who have crossed the line and gone completely over.

I have to admit that R2's success almost sounds too much like the perfect example of how this stuff is supposed to work.







About the bigfoot thing - just make sure you know when your in-laws might be coming by before streaking through the living room.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

r2d210 said:


> Trenton, I mentioned all the changes. I have not only stood up for myself to her, I have also made several major changes with people outside the marriage. I dropped sitting as a member on a board because the board itself was powerless and ineffective. I've been there for over three years. My W immediately saw that and was shocked because I did not ask for her input, and better yet....her permission. I turned down several asks to "fill-in" for people that I would have said yes previously to. See, I was the guy everyone went to to get help. I couldn't say "no", because I needed to fix their problem! She has seen this all in the last several weeks and she respects me for making those decisions. I was previously always concerned about what people thought of me, therefore, I couldn't say no! Not even to the door-to-door salesmen. I'm sick of being someone I'm not.....hope that additional information helps explain that although I have a long ways to go, I'm very excited about the progress I've already seen....


You sound like you were a total giver and now you've realized you deserve and want to take some. I'm happy for you for this, I'm sure it feels like you are taking control of your life. I've served on a BOD that was totally ineffective, quite a frustrating experience. Overall, good for you, and I'm not being sarcastic here.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

AFEH said:


> R2s wife has responded exceptionally well and it’s a delight to see.
> 
> My wife just trashed my new boundaries, crashed straight through them. I think she could see she was “no longer going to get away with it” and it gave her a terrific problem. It also told me she had no respect whatsoever for my boundaries and I wasn’t prepared to tolerate that. It’s that INTOLERANCE thing.
> 
> Bob


Bob - did you - like R2 - suddenly do a 180 degree turn? Going from weak to strong boundaries with little or no explanation? Do you think that making small changes where it mattered most might have helped preserve the marriage?


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> Who is "borderline"?
> 
> Or then again, who isn't, except for those of us who have crossed the line and gone completely over.
> 
> ...


I have a few issues. I've gotten really good at living with them but there are times it can be tiring and trying. I've flirted with the line a few times, my husband helps to keep me from tipping over and I've no idea how. I'm just ultra sensitive and emotional basically.

R2's story came off as too perfect to me but what does it matter. It's either true or not true. I hope it's true, it seems like quite a transformation.

Room darkening curtains, NG, curtains!


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Trenton said:


> Yes, that's what I was saying. I was putting myself in R2's wife's shoes and I thought...I would fight it and have to evaluate how important the relationship was to me so that I could decide if I was ready to take it in a new direction. I don't think I would instantly smile at the newfound man.
> 
> Tolerance is not always a good thing. If we have to give up so much of ourselves to be in a relationship then what is there to be gained or even enjoyed.



But R2 had reached his saturation point. He’d reached the point where he was ready to walk away from his marriage. That’s massive.

And he took the decision that the only person he can change is himself. The results prove this stuff works although it’s still early days.

Bob


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> Bob - did you - like R2 - suddenly do a 180 degree turn? Going from weak to strong boundaries with little or no explanation? Do you think that making small changes where it mattered most might have helped preserve the marriage?


NG, there are two 180s discussed on TAM. I didn’t do either of them.

I did though declare my N.U.T.s. the three behaviours I’d no longer tolerate and told my wife that unless she respects my boundaries and comes to MC with me I’d no longer spend my life with her.

What did I see? I saw a person with so deep ingrained behaviour that she simply couldn’t see herself living any other way. The behaviour I would no longer tolerate was at the deepest part of her, at her very core. And if she changed that behaviour and let go of her baggage she quite simply wouldn’t know who she was anymore. That is she’d have had a very serious identity crisis.

Looking back if I’d taken a longer approach to it all I don’t think it would have made any difference.

Plus at the time I was just coming out of a 4 week nervous breakdown and if she’d “attacked” me again I honestly don’t know what would have happened. I certainly would not have hit her, I don’t do that stuff. I think I would have become some sort of gibbering wreck.

Bob


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## r2d210 (Nov 3, 2010)

AFEH said:


> But R2 had reached his saturation point. He’d reached the point where he was ready to walk away from his marriage. That’s massive.
> 
> And he took the decision that the only person he can change is himself. The results prove this stuff works although it’s still early days.
> 
> Bob


Bob, it is very early. I get that. I am ready to do what it takes. There is so much more dynamically going on here. My dad never taught this....married three times, now lives alone. My wife's parents were similar in that her dad is a dormat and has lived a life of verbal abuse from her mother. My wife admitted that she does not want to loose me. So...there is willingness on her part. I see that as a very good thing. I'm not asking her to change. I'm doing the changing here. This is for the better....and like I said earlier....I'm very excited to see positive progress. This is all new to me. You all sound shocked to hear that what you preach actually works! WTF? Bob is the only one here that seems to think what I'm telling is true? Come on people! When I said I was serious.....I was serious!


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

R2 - not meaning to actually doubt you - your story just sounds a bit like an infomercial! But that's a "good" thing. For many of us, it was some sort of affair or other very hurtful behaviors that brought us here. For you to start doing things differently now - when there is no crisis - it makes sense that you would have better than average results.

Bob - if you don't mind - did you declare your N.U.T.S. before or after your wife began her affair? Were you changing in response to the affair? Did setting your boundaries simply speed up the inevitable end of a marriage that was already on the decline?

And by 180, I simply meant a quick, significant change in behavior. Not referring to any plans of any type.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

NG,

He had a crisis.

It was of the internal variety.

Actually, all of them are that way.

Some are just precipitated by the behavior of someone else.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> R2 - not meaning to actually doubt you - your story just sounds a bit like an infomercial! But that's a "good" thing. For many of us, it was some sort of affair or other very hurtful behaviors that brought us here. For you to start doing things differently now - when there is no crisis - it makes sense that you would have better than average results.
> 
> Bob - if you don't mind - did you declare your N.U.T.S. before or after your wife began her affair? Were you changing in response to the affair? Did setting your boundaries simply speed up the inevitable end of a marriage that was already on the decline?
> 
> And by 180, I simply meant a quick, significant change in behavior. Not referring to any plans of any type.



NG, not all marriages end because of affairs. My wife did have an affair when our sons were toddlers, it was a very long time ago and I got through it. Never once held it against her. It’s in the past over and done with. Forgiven and in long term memory.

My wife doesn’t work that way. She carries her baggage as though it’s a part of here “being” a very big part of herself image and “in the now”, not like it should be … in the past 10 or 20 years ago. I’m sure she grew that baggage all by herself. Though it was based on some fact, over the years it got twisted and distorted way beyond comprehension.

That baggage was always sitting there in the uppermost of her mind. I likened it to a WMD.

Got a conflict today? Out comes the baggage from the past and she fires off a couple of WMDs. Then we're transported back some 7, 12, 17, 23 years or whatever and I have to go through the stuff all over again except the event from the past has changed way beyond imagination. She was totally deluded about it.

I’d quite simply had enough of it and couldn’t tolerate anymore.

And yes in those terms I did a massive 180. I consider it to be one of the most rewarding things I've ever done for myself.

Bob


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

I once was advised to stop apologizing for things that were/are over and done with.

It was great advice.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

r2d210 said:


> Bob, it is very early. I get that. I am ready to do what it takes. There is so much more dynamically going on here. My dad never taught this....married three times, now lives alone. My wife's parents were similar in that her dad is a dormat and has lived a life of verbal abuse from her mother. My wife admitted that she does not want to loose me. So...there is willingness on her part. I see that as a very good thing. I'm not asking her to change. I'm doing the changing here. This is for the better....and like I said earlier....I'm very excited to see positive progress. This is all new to me. You all sound shocked to hear that what you preach actually works! WTF? Bob is the only one here that seems to think what I'm telling is true? Come on people! When I said I was serious.....I was serious!



I think it’s on of those things R2 that until a person does it for themselves they just don’t understand the magnitude of it all. Even just sitting down writing down your N.U.T.s. has for me a heck of a “centering” effect. In some ways it’s almost “This is a part of me now on”.

And once we’ve applied some N.U.T.s. in our marriage life and seen and felt the success of them it seems a natural progression to apply additional ones in other parts of our life … just as you have done.

In some aspects, especially the WMDs my wife’s mother treated her husband exactly the same way my wife treated me. He died aged 80 … and she never stopped!!! No way was I going there.

Bob


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

AFEH said:


> NG, not all marriages end because of affairs. My wife did have an affair when our sons were toddlers, it was a very long time ago and I got through it. Never once held it against her. It’s in the past over and done with. Forgiven and in long term memory.
> 
> My wife doesn’t work that way. She carries her baggage as though it’s a part of here “being” a very big part of herself image and “in the now”, not like it should be … in the past 10 or 20 years ago. I’m sure she grew that baggage all by herself. Though it was based on some fact, over the years it got twisted and distorted way beyond comprehension.
> 
> ...


Reminds me of something I stumbled up on recently - a parable:

*Muddy Road *

Tanzan and Ekido were once traveling together down a muddy road. A heavy rain was still falling. 

Coming around a bend, they met a lovely girl in a silk kimono and sash, unable to cross the intersection. 

"Come on, girl" said Tanzan at once. Lifting her in his arms, he carried her over the mud. 

Ekido did not speak again until that night when they reached a lodging temple. Then he no longer could restrain himself. "We monks don't go near females," he told Tanzan, "especially not young and lovely ones. It is dangerous. Why did you do that?" 

"I left the girl there," said Tanzan. "Are you still carrying her?"


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> Reminds me of something I stumbled up on recently - a parable:
> 
> *Muddy Road *
> 
> ...



As I said to my son, it was 42 years. That’s going on half a century. Like from 2000 to 2042. Can you imagine living in 2042, what your life will be like then? I know you mean well NG but that’s a very long time and it ain’t that easy. I’m glad I still feel I made absolutely the right decision and I haven’t regretted it for a second.

I read once it’s one month for every year together. Makes sense to me. Been with a woman for a year, takes a month to get over her. Been with a women 10 years, it takes 10 months to get over her. Been with a woman 42 years … you do the math.

I’m near 12 months separated in a few weeks time. From the emotional wreck I was at the beginning of the year I’m doing pretty good. It does though amaze me at times when friends say just forget her and move on. It makes me wonder what they had in their previous relationships. She’ll always be with me in some way until the end of my days. I know and accept that.

Bob


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

AFEH said:


> As I said to my son, it was 42 years. That’s going on half a century. Like from 2000 to 2042. Can you imagine living in 2042, what your life will be like then?* I know you mean well NG but that’s a very long time and it ain’t that easy.* I’m glad I still feel I made absolutely the right decision and I haven’t regretted it for a second.
> Bob


Bob - not sure you understood - your wife's 5 or 7 or 10 year old WMDs reminded me of the parable.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> Bob - not sure you understood - your wife's 5 or 7 or 10 year old WMDs reminded me of the parable.


I totally misunderstood you. Thanks for correcting me NG. It’s a very apt parable.

There’s so much here that’s opened my eyes. Baggage, game playing, fitness tests, effective boundaries etc.

And damn it I’d done enough learning lol.

Bob


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> Who is "borderline"?
> 
> Or then again, who isn't, except for those of us who have crossed the line and gone completely over.
> 
> I have to admit that R2's success almost sounds too much like the perfect example of how this stuff is supposed to work.


R2's problem wasn't serious at the beginning, so it is easy for him to fix!


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

AFEH said:


> I totally misunderstood you. Thanks for correcting me NG. It’s a very apt parable.
> 
> There’s so much here that’s opened my eyes. Baggage, game playing, fitness tests, effective boundaries etc.
> 
> ...


It's never too late to learn!

I am glad for all the studying I did about life and people. 

Now I understand people better, I don't get myself hurt by people anymore. 

Sometimes we think people will just be nice as us. No, it doesn't work this way. People are people, there are different kinds of people, some of them reciprocate, some of them don't. Some of them are nice, some of them are not. In order to protect ourselves, we have to be careful ourselves!


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