# married and met another man



## candy12

Hello all,

I am new here and hoping for some advice. My husband and I married 12 years ago when I was 26. We do not have children. I was very attracted to him when we first met, and loved him, although I did rush into marriage because my father was dying, my mother had died 5 years earlier and I was afraid of being alone. He has a good soul, is extremely honest (to a fault actually), sensitive, makes a good living, has a conscience, comes from a great family and we enjoy traveling together. However he does have some attributes that have kept me from being fully happy from the beginning. 

He is immature, a little self -centered and materialistic, negative, does not have a filter when he speaks and has embarrassed me on numerous occasions by sharing what should be private information with family, friends and coworkers. When he gets angry, he gets ANGRY. He has never gotten physical but will completely blow up and say insulting things to me out of anger. He gets into a state and it takes him a while to come out of. When he comes out of it he is then like a totally different person, holding different views than when he was angry. If I get angry with him over something he never takes me seriously and laughs at me. This made me somewhat unhappy in the first couple of years of our marriage. He started taking antianxiety meds and it did help a bit with the emotional control so it became less of an issue over time. I also learned over time to pick my battles so I just deal with his tantrums until he calms down and I don’t let it upset me. 

He also has a problem with drinking. He does not drink alone, or often, but when he does he cannot control how much he drinks. Two years ago, he got so drunk at a new years party that he ended up on the couch with the hostess of the party engaged in a sexual encounter at about 3am when I, and her husband, went upstairs to go to sleep. He told me about it the next day (someone from the party entered the room and they were caught), and was so distraught about what he did both to me, and the woman and her husband, he entered into a cycle of depression and obsessive compulsive disorder, despite the fact that I forgave him. He also started obsessing about some other sexual incidences from his past when he was in high school and college, and repeatedly sharing these obsessions with me despite the fact that I told him I don’t want to hear about them. He had his dosage of meds increased and then started a totally different med which was controlling the OCD and depression for a while but makes him constantly tired. He never wants to do anything or go anywhere. Even to go out to dinner I need to drag him off the couch. All he does is sleep on the couch all day and night when he’s not at work. I have asked him to go to behavioral counseling so he can wean off the drugs many times and he refuses. I have had to engage in interests and hobbies on my own, such as yoga, traveling with girlfriends etc… By doing so, I felt like I was happy. I was content. Until…

About a year ago I met a man through work (he was a client of my company). We instantly connected, and he asked me out to dinner, not realizing I was married. I took him up on his offer, which I never would have done if the timing was different…we hit it off, and at the end of the dinner I shared with him that I am married. He was devastated, and then I then told him that I was separated because I wanted to keep seeing him. In my mind, there was some truth to this since husband and I are living under the same roof but no longer really operating as a couple. I never told him that my husband and I are not living together, I just used the word separated. I have been seeing him since, and it is the most amazing experience of my life. He has all the attributes I could ever want in a man. He is so caring, loving, devoted, mature, supportive, puts my needs first, is down to earth, laid back about all the things that would make my husband boil into a rage. I have never felt so loved by someone in my life. He actually wants to LIVE, to do things, and takes initiative. He has plans and dreams for the future, and we share many of the same interests and goals. When I am with him I feel like I am with a real man who can make decisions and execute them. All of this has only intensified in the year I've known him. He wants to start a life with me.

I know what I am doing is very wrong, believe me I know this. However I felt like for once I needed to experience an alternative instead of just giving up my own life for 2 years now to sit at home and wallow in my husband’s misery. Knowing this other man has given me a glimpse into what is possible, and I needed to find that out. My husband is really the only person I’ve ever had a real, serious relationship with outside of college. 
I don’t know what to do at this point. I very much desire a new life with the other man but I don’t know how I can hurt my husband like that, or throw away the life and home we have together. I do love my husband and feel it is my duty as a spouse to help him through this and be devoted, not hurt him. At the same time, how can I choose a life that seems to have no future and no direction over one that has everything I could have dreamed of. A physical separation is not financially feasible right now.

I am seeing a therapist but I still feel lost. I need to stop leading these two men on.


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## samyeagar

I think you should most definately not tell your husband about this other man and keep seeing him. If you haven't been physical with him, you should do so ASAP, and see how long you can keep it away from your husband because he doesn't need to know, and it will make everything that much more exciting


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## MysteryMan1

candy12 said:


> I need to stop leading these two men on.


At least you realize this. Sounds like you're having an EA on your husband and not telling the OM the whole truth, this is wrong. If you want to be with the OM then divorce your husband.


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## Broken at 20

Why is a divorce not financially feasible? 

You said your husband makes a good living. Now, a divorce will hit him, but you two should be able to afford one on a good living.
Sounds to me like you don't want to divorce because you like where you are.


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## Maneo

You are right. You are leading both men on. Stop with the other man. Work through your feelings and issues with your husband. Life often looks better elsewhere but that can be a deceptive feeling of the moment. 
Not only are you fooling those two men, you may be fooling yourself.


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## A Bit Much

You're lying to both of these men. You know what you should do, but you're too selfish (let's just be honest here) to do it.

I have no advice for you, nothing you don't already know yourself anyway. I sincerely hope you make the right decision here and give them both the truth they deserve.


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## candy12

If we sell the house then a divorce would be financially feasible. We both make a good living. I am hesistant to divorce because yes, it will throw away the life and home I have made up to this point (and all the people that are part of it) and I don't want to hurt my husband. But are those good enough reasons to not get a divorce?


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## Paradise

Lies, Lies, and more Lies...And...An excuse for every lie trying to rationalize it. 

This is VERY simple! Since you cannot make up your mind on what to do here tell your husband and the OM the entire truth and at least allow them the chance to make up their minds on what they want their lives to look like. 

No offense, but people like you (based on what you have stated) are my worst nightmare because there is no truth. Not saying your hubby is an angel because he obviously is not but this EA is all on you. I just cannot stand the rationalization of it all.


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## A Bit Much

candy12 said:


> If we sell the house then a divorce would be financially feasible. We both make a good living. I am hesistant to divorce because yes, it will throw away the life and home I have made up to this point (and all the people that are part of it) and* I don't want to hurt my husband.* But are those good enough reasons to not get a divorce?


You're already doing the hurting by lying to him every day. You don't see that?


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## samyeagar

candy12 said:


> If we sell the house then a divorce would be financially feasible. We both make a good living. I am hesistant to divorce because yes, it will throw away the life and home I have made up to this point (and all the people that are part of it) and I don't want to hurt my husband. But are those good enough reasons to not get a divorce?


The fact is, you have already completely devistated your husband...he just doesn't know it yet, and you have already thrown away the life and home and people that are a part of it.

The only question you have to answer for yourself at this point is how much longer do you want to pretend that you haven't?


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## Broken at 20

candy12 said:


> If we sell the house then a divorce would be financially feasible. We both make a good living. I am hesistant to divorce because yes, it will throw away the life and home I have made up to this point (and all the people that are part of it) and I don't want to hurt my husband. But are those good enough reasons to not get a divorce?


So because you don't want to lose your money and house, which (and I am making an assumption here) that your husband contributed to, you'll carry out this emotional affair? 

Mind if I give you an honest opinion?
I think you were young and stupid, and got married because you were at an emotionally needy time in your life. So you found this guy, who is a loser socially, but somehow makes a good living. And you got married. 
And now, after you got over your emotionally needy phase, you realize what you did. You married a loser with a good job and are regretting it. 
And NOW you are seeing what is actually out there. Guys with their heads on right, and guys that you wished you had married the first time around. 


Get a divorce now, and get out now. 
The guy you married, may be a good guy. But he is not what you want.


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## candy12

Ouch...the truth does hurt. I know I'm being selfish. I've been digging myself deeper and deeper into the mess. My husband does suspect that I've been cheating. He has caught me texting and said he doesn't believe that I am going to where I am saying I am going after work and on the weekends. It is sort of out in the open without me coming out and admitting it. I am afraid to tell him because he will track down the OM and I don't know what he'd do. So yes, I have already hurt him.


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## PBear

If your husband doesn't know you're "separated", then you're only rationalizing. This new guy will very possibly not trust you when the truth comes out ( and it likely will) if you continue to see him. In the end, you're likely to lose both the bird in the hand AND the one in the bush. 

Figure out what you want to do and start being honest. And I say this as a former cheater. The limbo/cake eating life will cause all sorts of stress and pain. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Maneo

Broken at 20 said:


> So because you don't want to lose your money and house, which (and I am making an assumption here) that your husband contributed to, you'll carry out this emotional affair?
> 
> Mind if I give you an honest opinion?
> I think you were young and stupid, and got married because you were at an emotionally needy time in your life. So you found this guy, who is a loser socially, but somehow makes a good living. And you got married.
> And now, after you got over your emotionally needy phase, you realize what you did. You married a loser with a good job and are regretting it.
> And NOW you are seeing what is actually out there. Guys with their heads on right, and guys that you wished you had married the first time around.
> 
> 
> Get a divorce now, and get out now.
> The guy you married, may be a good guy. But he is not what you want.


I'm not sure she knows what she wants. She may be feeling attached to this other guy the way she attached to her husband when she was feeling in need of a life preserver. This other guy sounds like another life preserver for her. 
She made one decision she now regrets. Sounds like she may make another.


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## candy12

Broken at 20 said:


> So because you don't want to lose your money and house, which (and I am making an assumption here) that your husband contributed to, you'll carry out this emotional affair?
> 
> Mind if I give you an honest opinion?
> I think you were young and stupid, and got married because you were at an emotionally needy time in your life. So you found this guy, who is a loser socially, but somehow makes a good living. And you got married.
> And now, after you got over your emotionally needy phase, you realize what you did. You married a loser with a good job and are regretting it.
> And NOW you are seeing what is actually out there. Guys with their heads on right, and guys that you wished you had married the first time around.
> 
> 
> Get a divorce now, and get out now.
> The guy you married, may be a good guy. But he is not what you want.



Yes, you are exactly correct.


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## samyeagar

candy12 said:


> Ouch...the truth does hurt. I know I'm being selfish. I've been digging myself deeper and deeper into the mess. My husband does suspect that I've been cheating. He has caught me texting and said he doesn't believe that I am going to where I am saying I am going after work and on the weekends. It is sort of out in the open without me coming out and admitting it. I am afraid to tell him because he will track down the OM and I don't know what he'd do. So yes, I have already hurt him.


So you have knowingly put and kept your boyfriend in danger along with what you have done to your husband.

When your boyfriend finds out about this, if he really is the type of guy you have described him as, he is going to drop you so fast because he seems like he may actually have a shred of dignity and self respect...


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## candy12

Maneo said:


> I'm not sure she knows what she wants. She may be feeling attached to this other guy the way she attached to her husband when she was feeling in need of a life preserver. This other guy sounds like another life preserver for her.
> She made one decision she now regrets. Sounds like she may make another.


I see what you are saying but I don't think the OM was a life preserver for me, because I didn't feel like I was in need of one at the time I met him. I was feeling content with my life because I didn't know what else was out there due to inexperience with other men.


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## candy12

samyeagar said:


> So you have knowingly put and kept your boyfriend in danger along with what you have done to your husband.
> 
> When your boyfriend finds out about this, if he really is the type of guy you have described him as, he is going to drop you so fast because he seems like he may actually have a shred of dignity and self respect...


That is possible. I feel like I don't deserve him actually.


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## A Bit Much

candy12 said:


> Ouch...the truth does hurt. I know I'm being selfish. I've been digging myself deeper and deeper into the mess. My husband does suspect that I've been cheating. He has caught me texting and said he doesn't believe that I am going to where I am saying I am going after work and on the weekends. It is sort of out in the open without me coming out and admitting it. I am afraid to tell him because he will track down the OM and I don't know what he'd do. So yes, I have already hurt him.



Come clean.


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## Wiserforit

candy12 said:


> Ouch...the truth does hurt. I know I'm being selfish. I've been digging myself deeper and deeper into the mess. My husband does suspect that I've been cheating. He has caught me texting and said he doesn't believe that I am going to where I am saying I am going after work and on the weekends. It is sort of out in the open without me coming out and admitting it. I am afraid to tell him because he will track down the OM and I dis woron't know what he'd do. So yes, I have already hurt him.


The emotional abuse is worse than the affair - manipulative lies, saying how he is imagining things, pretending you are the victim of his controlling behavior, etc. 

You know what to do. All that stuff about how you were not fulfilled before is just rationalization. Entitlement. Having your cake and eating it too is better than doing the right thing. We see this all the time here.


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## samyeagar

A Bit Much said:


> Come clean.


With BOTH of them.


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## samyeagar

I must confess that my first post in this thread was very much tongue in cheek as I didn't expect the OP to ever post again, because it was her first post on the forum and was so over the top ridiculous that I figured it had to be another troll thread. My apologies.


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## Emerald

candy12 said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I am new here and hoping for some advice. My husband and I married 12 years ago when I was 26. We do not have children. I was very attracted to him when we first met, and loved him, although I did rush into marriage because my father was dying, my mother had died 5 years earlier and I was afraid of being alone. He has a good soul, is extremely honest (to a fault actually), sensitive, makes a good living, has a conscience, comes from a great family and we enjoy traveling together. However he does have some attributes that have kept me from being fully happy from the beginning.
> 
> He is immature, a little self -centered and materialistic, negative, does not have a filter when he speaks and has embarrassed me on numerous occasions by sharing what should be private information with family, friends and coworkers. When he gets angry, he gets ANGRY. He has never gotten physical but will completely blow up and say insulting things to me out of anger. He gets into a state and it takes him a while to come out of. When he comes out of it he is then like a totally different person, holding different views than when he was angry. If I get angry with him over something he never takes me seriously and laughs at me. This made me somewhat unhappy in the first couple of years of our marriage. He started taking antianxiety meds and it did help a bit with the emotional control so it became less of an issue over time. I also learned over time to pick my battles so I just deal with his tantrums until he calms down and I don’t let it upset me.
> 
> He also has a problem with drinking. He does not drink alone, or often, but when he does he cannot control how much he drinks. Two years ago, he got so drunk at a new years party that he ended up on the couch with the hostess of the party engaged in a sexual encounter at about 3am when I, and her husband, went upstairs to go to sleep. He told me about it the next day (someone from the party entered the room and they were caught), and was so distraught about what he did both to me, and the woman and her husband, he entered into a cycle of depression and obsessive compulsive disorder, despite the fact that I forgave him. He also started obsessing about some other sexual incidences from his past when he was in high school and college, and repeatedly sharing these obsessions with me despite the fact that I told him I don’t want to hear about them. He had his dosage of meds increased and then started a totally different med which was controlling the OCD and depression for a while but makes him constantly tired. He never wants to do anything or go anywhere. Even to go out to dinner I need to drag him off the couch. All he does is sleep on the couch all day and night when he’s not at work. I have asked him to go to behavioral counseling so he can wean off the drugs many times and he refuses. I have had to engage in interests and hobbies on my own, such as yoga, traveling with girlfriends etc… By doing so, I felt like I was happy. I was content. Until…
> 
> About a year ago I met a man through work (he was a client of my company). We instantly connected, and he asked me out to dinner, not realizing I was married. I took him up on his offer, which I never would have done if the timing was different…we hit it off, and at the end of the dinner I shared with him that I am married. He was devastated, and then I then told him that I was separated because I wanted to keep seeing him. In my mind, there was some truth to this since husband and I are living under the same roof but no longer really operating as a couple. I never told him that my husband and I are not living together, I just used the word separated. I have been seeing him since, and it is the most amazing experience of my life. He has all the attributes I could ever want in a man. He is so caring, loving, devoted, mature, supportive, puts my needs first, is down to earth, laid back about all the things that would make my husband boil into a rage. I have never felt so loved by someone in my life. He actually wants to LIVE, to do things, and takes initiative. He has plans and dreams for the future, and we share many of the same interests and goals. When I am with him I feel like I am with a real man who can make decisions and execute them. All of this has only intensified in the year I've known him. He wants to start a life with me.
> 
> I know what I am doing is very wrong, believe me I know this. However I felt like for once I needed to experience an alternative instead of just giving up my own life for 2 years now to sit at home and wallow in my husband’s misery. Knowing this other man has given me a glimpse into what is possible, and I needed to find that out. My husband is really the only person I’ve ever had a real, serious relationship with outside of college.
> I don’t know what to do at this point. I very much desire a new life with the other man but I don’t know how I can hurt my husband like that, or throw away the life and home we have together. I do love my husband and feel it is my duty as a spouse to help him through this and be devoted, not hurt him. At the same time, how can I choose a life that seems to have no future and no direction over one that has everything I could have dreamed of. A physical separation is not financially feasible right now.
> 
> I am seeing a therapist but I still feel lost. I need to stop leading these two men on.


What "life" with your husband would you be throwing away? You said all he does is work & sleep. Rinse & repeat. Your husband sounds like a very sick man. If you are not willing to wait to see if he gets better, then leave him. You can't fix him & all you do is feel sorry for him. You can still be his friend if he allows it.


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## MeditMike80

candy12 said:


> Hello all,
> He is immature, a little self -centered and materialistic, negative, does not have a filter when he speaks and has embarrassed me on numerous occasions by sharing what should be private information with family, friends and coworkers. When he gets angry, he gets ANGRY. He has never gotten physical but will completely blow up and say insulting things to me out of anger. He gets into a state and it takes him a while to come out of. When he comes out of it he is then like a totally different person, holding different views than when he was angry. If I get angry with him over something he never takes me seriously and laughs at me. This made me somewhat unhappy in the first couple of years of our marriage. He started taking antianxiety meds and it did help a bit with the emotional control so it became less of an issue over time. I also learned over time to pick my battles so I just deal with his tantrums until he calms down and I don’t let it upset me.
> 
> He also has a problem with drinking. He does not drink alone, or often, but when he does he cannot control how much he drinks. Two years ago, he got so drunk at a new years party that he ended up on the couch with the hostess of the party engaged in a sexual encounter at about 3am when I, and her husband, went upstairs to go to sleep. He told me about it the next day (someone from the party entered the room and they were caught), and was so distraught about what he did both to me, and the woman and her husband, he entered into a cycle of depression and obsessive compulsive disorder, despite the fact that I forgave him. He also started obsessing about some other sexual incidences from his past when he was in high school and college, and repeatedly sharing these obsessions with me despite the fact that I told him I don’t want to hear about them. He had his dosage of meds increased and then started a totally different med which was controlling the OCD and depression for a while but makes him constantly tired. He never wants to do anything or go anywhere. Even to go out to dinner I need to drag him off the couch. All he does is sleep on the couch all day and night when he’s not at work. I have asked him to go to behavioral counseling so he can wean off the drugs many times and he refuses. I have had to engage in interests and hobbies on my own, such as yoga, traveling with girlfriends etc… By doing so, I felt like I was happy. I was content.


I don't believe one single word of this. These are things that cheaters tell themselves and others to justify their own behavior. And yes, you are cheating. What's best for you to do is to leave your husband, give him EVERYTHING in the divorce and start a new life with "Mr. Perfect." I doubt very much that in a year or two that you will be happy with your decision. 

You can go read the posts in CWI and see how many men (and women) were accused of being emotionally abusive, terrible husbands/wives, etc all to justify the cheating that was done to them. Then suddenly when the cheating spouse finds that the grass isn't greener, the tune changes to "I didn't realize what I had," "my husband/wife is perfect." Gimme a break.


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## somethingelse

You're cheating on your H. You've allowed yourself to be lured into an emotional affair. 

You cannot continue to lie to your H. So choose to divorce him and move on with this guy, or break it off with the OM, and work on your marriage. You cannot continue to be a cake eater.


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## lisab0105

You don't know this new guy. Know matter what you may think, you don't know him because he doesn't really KNOW you! You have no idea what he is like to live with day in and day out after years and years, stress and bills along with life's hardships. 

You are living in fantasy land. To top that off, once he finds out that you are a cheater, he won't want to have anything to do with you any way...if he has any common sense any way. 

You can bad mouth your husband until you are blue in the face, there is only one cheater in your marriage...and that is you.


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## Stonewall

candy12 said:


> I see what you are saying but I don't think the OM was a life preserver for me, because I didn't feel like I was in need of one at the time I met him. I was feeling content with my life because I didn't know what else was out there due to inexperience with other men.


I think I'm gonna throw up now!


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## candy12

Yes I do realize I'm cheating and it is wrong. I have had many opportunities to cheat all the years I've been married (I'm in sales, physically attractive and in contact with men on a daily basis) and never ever considered it. I am not trying to justify my actions, as I've said several times I know it's wrong, I am just trying to give some background information so the right decision can be made. I KNOW it needs to stop and I am ready to stop it. I know I've made an irreversible mistake and I don't want to make another one. I don't know if that mistake is divorcing my husband or staying in the marriage and letting the OM go. I don't know anything about divorce - no one in my family is divorced. I know some are saying to tell the truth to both, however I have been told that divulging the info about an affair isn't always the best thing to do. He can easily confirm everything himself (he just has to look at my cell phone records, or follow me) but he chooses not to, I believe because he doesn't want to deal with the consequences. My husband has divulged information to me that I know I would have been better off not knowing.


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## candy12

lisab0105 said:


> You don't know this new guy. Know matter what you may think, you don't know him because he doesn't really KNOW you!


I have thought about this and I agree. At the same time, there were red flags with my husband from the very beginning and none with the OM.


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## lisab0105

:wtf::banghead::banghead::banghead:

So you are saying if your husband really needed/wanted to know, he would do the leg work and catch you?????? 

Tell him who he is married to already.


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## PBear

My thoughts... Whoever you stay with should know the truth. They should know what they're getting into. There's no sense causing extra hurt to someone you're leaving, though. 

In my case, I had an affair, then decided to end my marriage after my affair ended. My wife never knew, although I think she must have suspected. I don't think there was any benefit to her knowing, for either of us. But that could very well be me trying to protect my external image of myself... My current SO does know my past history, however. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## candy12

lisab0105 said:


> So you are saying if your husband really needed/wanted to know, he would do the leg work and catch you??????


No, what I meant is that he already suspects but doesn't want confirmation. He's avoiding it as much as I am.


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## sandc

Put on your big girl pants and tell your h and OM the full truth. If you are having sex with on already get an STD test and at least put your He's mind to rest on that front. You are lying to two men who both deserve the truth and the opportunity to make up both their minds about you.


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## samyeagar

samyeagar said:


> I think you should most definately not tell your husband about this other man and keep seeing him. If you haven't been physical with him, you should do so ASAP, and see how long you can keep it away from your husband because he doesn't need to know, and it will make everything that much more exciting


I retract my earlier apology to the OP, and again yield this advice, though not in jest this time...as this appears to be the only thing you will want to listen to...

Just curious OP...when you first read my first post, were you kind of excited thinking I was giving you real advice, and it sort of went along with your own twisted thinking?


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## plasmasunn

candy12 said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I am seeing a therapist but I still feel lost. I need to stop leading these two men on.


I just wanted to chime in here real quick and ask a question: if the OM wasn't around, would you still be on the fence about your marriage?

Point being, bouncing from one serious relationship to another isn't generally a good idea. Once your OM finds out the truth, he'll either leave cause you lied, or forgive you and start a relationship with you...but will there ever actually be any trust?

Cheating/affair aside...seriously, if you want out of your marriage, get out. You don't need another man to convince you that's OK...only you can decide to do that. Better to be alone and content than coupled and guilt-ridden or shamed!


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## Thumper

Im stunned, have you ever sought marriage counseling with your husband? does he even know you feel this way about him, given the chance to fix his faults? The ball has always been in your court, but your husband wasn't even invited to the game. And either was the OM. This is not gonna play out the way you think it is, if the OM finds out your so willing to put your spouses issues behind you, what he gonna think if he ever has an issue come up, that you'll do the same to him?

how many spouses out there have been dealt the same loaded deck?


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## EleGirl

candy12 said:


> No, what I meant is that he already suspects but doesn't want confirmation. He's avoiding it as much as I am.


I doubt that he really does not want confirmation. What is often thought of that way is a person managing the level of hurt that hits them at a particular time. When he is emotionally ready for the next level of emotional assault he will open himself up to being hit over the head by the 2x4 you are swinging at his head.

He might be avoiding having more knowledge right now, but it’s not for the same reason you are. You don’t want to be found out because then you will not have two men meeting your needs and you can no longer pretend that you are the good, loving wife.


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## candy12

samyeagar said:


> Just curious OP...when you first read my first post, were you kind of excited thinking I was giving you real advice, and it sort of went along with your own twisted thinking?


No because what you have described is what I've been doing already for a year and I want to stop. I can no longer deal with the stress and torment it is creating.



plasmasunn said:


> if the OM wasn't around, would you still be on the fence about your marriage?


no I wouldn't. I didn't meet the right person for me until I was 38 and married. It sucks.


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## EleGirl

Candy, keep in mind that you have a husband who is having serious mental health issues. I can understand that this can be very hard to live with. But you have chosen a path that will most likely worsen his problems.

A good analogy would be that he broke his leg. And now, while the leg is mending you take a baseball bat and re-break it for him.

If you cannot deal with your husband's issues, stop the damage. Either stay with him and work on recovery or divorce. Being half out of the marriage is not acceptable.

You may as well end the affair because this relationship was doomed from day one. Do not base whether or not you stay in your marriage on this guy. He will not stay with you. So what you want without having another man on the side.

Get the book "Surviving and Affair" by Dr. Harley. It will explain to you why your relationship with the OM is one with no future.


----------



## Wiserforit

candy12 said:


> . I don't know if that mistake is divorcing my husband or staying in the marriage and letting the OM go.


Which is the excuse all use to continue having your cake and eating it too. Pretending this is confusing. 

It is elementary. While married you do not have affairs. So there is nothing to decide. You have no contact with this other man while you are married.


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## EleGirl

candy12 said:


> no I wouldn't. I didn't meet the right person for me until I was 38 and married. It sucks.


To be honest you do not know if the OM is the right person for you. Your relationship is based on fantasy. It has not entered the real world. Once it does it will fail. Only 3% of affairs turn into long term relationships once the affair partners are free to form long term relationships.

Unless your husband agrees to give you a chance to reconcile, you will lose both relationships.


----------



## turnera

candy12 said:


> If we sell the house then a divorce would be financially feasible. We both make a good living. I am hesistant to divorce because yes, it will throw away the life and home I have made up to this point (and all the people that are part of it) and I don't want to hurt my husband. But are those good enough reasons to not get a divorce?


 If you don't have kids, they are. But I would first at least make an ATTEMPT to fix the marriage so you can look family and friends in the face and tell them you did all you could to fix it. If you make decisions based on your affair, you will never be able to look anyone in the face for the rest of your life.


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## candy12

Husband is aware that I am having a very difficult time dealing with his issues. He has refused to see a therapist to help him, and it got to the point where I threatened to leave him if he didn't see one. He still chose not to see a therapist. He feels he can get better on his own. I do agree that what I am doing is making his mental state worse. At the same time, I am not a therapist and have no interest in sitting home all day listening to him obsess about his past sexual encounters. I have told him this numerous times. Some of the encounters he has been obsessing about were homosexual in nature, although he swears he is not attracted to men and I do believe him. However this has negatively impacted my sexual attraction to him. I don't know why but it has.


----------



## Thumper

I cant help feeling sorry for your husband right now, even if he thinks there might be something going on, he's gonna be completely DESTROYED if your ever honest with him. Seems like you care more about the financials at this point, and this lie that you think you finally found your soul mate. Can someone pass me some popcorn, this is gonna be Armageddon.


----------



## A Bit Much

candy12 said:


> Husband is aware that I am having a very difficult time dealing with his issues. He has refused to see a therapist to help him, and it got to the point where I threatened to leave him if he didn't see one. He still chose not to see a therapist. He feels he can get better on his own. I do agree that what I am doing is making his mental state worse. At the same time, I am not a therapist and have no interest in sitting home all day listening to him obsess about his past sexual encounters. I have told him this numerous times. Some of the encounters he has been obsessing about were homosexual in nature, although he swears he is not attracted to men and I do believe him. However this has negatively impacted my sexual attraction to him. I don't know why but it has.



Do you not agree it to be a better move on YOUR part to handle what's going on with your husband BEFORE further involving yourself with ANOTHER man? One at a time. You and your husband have lots of unfinished business to tend to. Take care of that first and foremost.


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## turnera

candy12 said:


> Husband is aware that I am having a very difficult time dealing with his issues. He has refused to see a therapist to help him, and it got to the point where I threatened to leave him if he didn't see one. He still chose not to see a therapist. He feels he can get better on his own.


Then let him.

Alone. 

And make sure he knows THIS is why you are leaving him.

That's called a consequence. HIS choice.


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## EleGirl

candy12 said:


> Husband is aware that I am having a very difficult time dealing with his issues. He has refused to see a therapist to help him, and it got to the point where I threatened to leave him if he didn't see one. He still chose not to see a therapist. He feels he can get better on his own. I do agree that what I am doing is making his mental state worse. At the same time, I am not a therapist and have no interest in sitting home all day listening to him obsess about his past sexual encounters. I have told him this numerous times. Some of the encounters he has been obsessing about were homosexual in nature, although he swears he is not attracted to men and I do believe him. However this has negatively impacted my sexual attraction to him. I don't know why but it has.


One of the major problems with depression in a spouse is that it can end up causing depression in the other spouse.

Your husband refuses to go to counseling, so he's refusing to do what is needed for him to get better. It almost sounds like he wants you to be his counselor/therapist. Well you cannot do this. Having to deal with his issues is apparently too much for you. You have nothing to apologize for if it is too much for you. 

I divorced a man who became nonfunctional due to depression and other mental health issues. I understand how this can pull you down to the point that you become as nonfunctional as he. You cannot allow him to destroy you. If this is want has been going on (your post sounds like it might be this) then get out of your marriage. Or you get into heavy counseling to help you deal with your husband.

My bet is that your relationship with the OM pulled you out of the sink hole. And now you are concerned about being sucked right back in.


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## lifeistooshort

Look, I was where you are so I really do understand what you're dealing with. I do not wish to hijack your thread so I'll just sum it up by saying that my ex husband was a mean, nasty sexist drunk that treated me like dog poop, so maybe a little different from you husband in that regard, but suffice to say that I was miserable being married to him. My ex also knew I was miserable and did nothing because as far as he was concerned it was my problem not his. I met another man while married to him; at that point I'd already decided I was through with him. What did I do? I assumed that OM wouldn't last anyway and evaluated my marriage on its own merits. I wanted out of the marriage regardless of OM, and whatever I may be I am not a cake eater. I divorced my ex, started dating OM (who I never lied to-he knew I was married and that I'd filed for divorce), and married him 6 years later. But I understood that OM might bolt and I was ok with that. It's clear you don't have much of a marriage so cut your losses and get out. Sometimes things just don't work out and that's life but you must always keep your integrity or you really do have nothing. Did it cost me money? Of course but things in life aren't free and it's the price for your life. Pay what it costs and keep your integrity intact.


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## Shaggy

I'm going to say your husband will feel a lot less guilty about his one time drunk romp when he leans you've been cheating and having sex with the OM for a year.

I'm shocked that your response to your husband falling apart ith guilt, is to engage in an affair., and then blame him for it.

Advice: tell your husband the truth that you chose a year ago to leave him and enter into an affair with the OM, and that he should no longe feel sny guilt over his one mistake because your deliberate choice has put that to rest.

Offer him a generous D very favorable to him in every way.

My hope: is that your husband dies in fact catch on to your affair and publicly exposes it to both the OM, your HR department since you are dating a client, and to friends and family.

I say this because despite all your professions of knowing its bad, you deliberately chose the path you are on and you clearly have no intention of being honest because it is too high risk for you personally.

You created this situation, not your husband. Only you can begin to fix it by stopping lying to everyone. The first person you owe the full truth to is your husband. He is the one you made a vow to, and he is the one you have betrayed the deepest.


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## Decorum

Shaggy said:


> My hope: is that your husband *does*(not dies,typo) in fact catch on to your affair and publicly exposes it to both the OM, your HR department since you are dating a client, and to friends and family.


I fixed that one for you shaggy!

Elegirl (as always) and Lifeistooshort (good to meet you btw)
I think your posts are very balanced and make very good points as I considered her situation I felt uncertain but your posts show reality, and character So I second them.

Yep a sick or needy spouse can never compete with prince charming, (of course he did not know he was competing, did he) Poor SOB, but its not right to make a fool out of him any longer.

My wife and I have had our share of rough patches these last 20 + years, her having MS and us trying to raise 4 kids, we have both thought and talked about divorce, but the thought of the esteem wrecking, soul killing action of cheating and betrayal never seemed like the "kind" thing to do to someone who was suffering.

Isnt that enough reason to not do what you have done, it is so unkind!

How will you ever feel good about this, and face the other man, "I lied to you by omission when I did not tell you I was married, I lied to you when I said that we were seperated (even though I had a clever way to lie to myself about it as well), I have been lying to you and my husband this whole time. My husband is struggling with some form of mental illness, and my cheating and lying have not been helping, but I have let it go on for (what 2 years?), all the time living a fantasy with you, I now want to desert him in his time of need and be with you 100%"

What man could resist that deal? 

I suspect that the om knows you have been lying anyway so he probably will not care, I could be wrong, but he would have to be pretty thick not to.

You willingness to be involved in all this is really quite shocking, smh.
But yeah one way or the other make a choice and stick with it.


----------



## somethingelse

candy12 said:


> Husband is aware that I am having a very difficult time dealing with his issues. He has refused to see a therapist to help him, and it got to the point where I threatened to leave him if he didn't see one. He still chose not to see a therapist. He feels he can get better on his own. I do agree that what I am doing is making his mental state worse. At the same time, I am not a therapist and have no interest in sitting home all day listening to him obsess about his past sexual encounters.


So you threatened to leave if he didn't want to see a therapist....and he decided not to see a therapist. Why didn't you leave then?

Instead you have backed out of your first decision, and chosen a much more complicated approach...to drown your sorrows in an emotional affair with some guy you now have decided is better than your H. Typical cheater talk. 

You do realize that if you were going to leave your H, you would have when he went against your therapist idea? Do you see what you are doing? You are justifying an A. Eventually you are going to get physical with this "Prince Charming" (who could turn out to be a monster for all you know) and you'll be further damaging yourself and your marriage.

Did you also take into consideration what KIND of damage you will be causing? You are going to make it harder for your H to get well. And in fact, you're going to bulldoze any chance of helping your marriage. You think it is bad now? Think again if you continue this EA. 

You are not justified in what you are doing.


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## candy12

I didn't leave my husband when he refused to go to a therapist because I was scared, and also I felt sorry for him. Whenever he thinks that me leaving is a reality, he gets more depressed and it's a never ending cycle. I have been going to counseling myself to deal with his issues, and have even tried to get depression/ocd information from her to bring home to my husband to try to help him since he wouldn't go himself. The thought of ending things with the OM would devastate me emotionally, and then to try to recover from that while in my house drowning in my husbands depression feels like more than I can handle. Yes, I know that is selfish and I know I made my own bed and I must lie in it. I am listening to everyone's advice here, please don't think I am ignoring everything and trying to justify my actions.


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## somethingelse

Then stop talking, and start doing. End this today. What you're doing now is going to hurt him too.


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## warlock07

candy12 said:


> That is possible. I feel like I don't deserve him actually.


you don't. you are cheating two men now.


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## warlock07

candy12 said:


> No because what you have described is what I've been doing already for a year and I want to stop. I can no longer deal with the stress and torment it is creating.
> 
> 
> 
> no I wouldn't. I didn't meet the right person for me until I was 38 and married. It sucks.



monkey - tree. What would you do when you meet a man you think is better than your bf ? cheat on him too ?

You are a user. You have to lie to your loved ones to make them like you. You married your H for your own selfish emotional reasons. You are lying to this poor guy for your own selfish reasons. If you wanted the new guy so much and if your marriage is so bad, you would have atleast separated before seeing this new guy. But like the cheater you are, you want your husband to be a backup if the new relationships fails.

Are you having sex with your new bf ?


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## hookares

candy12, if you can get a nice sleazy attorney, maybe he can get you with a judge like my ex was hitting the sheets with before our divorce and he'll see to it that you and your latest squeeze can end up with EVERYTHING your good providing **** has afforded you.
(just keep an eye on the new guy or he may end up relieving you of all the spoils of the dissolution and leave you high and dry)


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## lifeistooshort

Candy, you're looking for an easy answer where none exists. This is going to be hard; file for divorce now and agree to an equitable split. you can't fix your husband, you can only go down with him, and you are sacrificing your integrity with your current choices. Your husband's demons are his to battle.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daffodilly

You've already left the marriage by cheating.

So be an adult and make it official. Come clean to BOTH men. Stop trying to justify the affair. Let BOTH men know what's going on. They both deserve to know who they are involved with. It's not only your decision...it's theirs too.


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## EleGirl

candy12 said:


> I didn't leave my husband when he refused to go to a therapist because I was scared, and also I felt sorry for him. Whenever he thinks that me leaving is a reality, he gets more depressed and it's a never ending cycle.


This similar to those who say they cannot leave their spouse because he/she will commit suicide. You are not responsible for healing your husband’s mental illness problems. He is. Often times a cycle of co-dependence happens in a marriage like yours. Your bond is now him depending on you are the maintainer of his mental health. So now you care more about his wellbeing than your own.

Your affair is the pressure release on the pressure cooker that is your marriage. Without it you will probably fall apart to the point that you cannot be the co-dependent support for your husband. But then affairs are a nasty thing in that they destroy what the pretend to help… YOU. The only way you can help your husband is to remove yourself from the co-dependent role and start to really take care of yourself. That means ending the affair because the affair is causing you harm. It’s preventing you from dealing with the issues at hand.

The way to fix this is to start out by really putting yourself first. Unfortunately you will have to tell both your husband and your AP about the truth. When you do this your husband might completely fall part. Or he might wake up. That’s up to him. If your husband decides that he wants to reconcile (it’s his choice, not yours), you are going to have to tell him that he has to get the help he needs because you cannot go on being his mother and counselor.


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## candy12

EleGirl said:


> This similar to those who say they cannot leave their spouse because he/she will commit suicide. You are not responsible for healing your husband’s mental illness problems. He is. Often times a cycle of co-dependence happens in a marriage like yours. Your bond is now him depending on you are the maintainer of his mental health. So now you care more about his wellbeing than your own.
> 
> Your affair is the pressure release on the pressure cooker that is your marriage. Without it you will probably fall apart to the point that you cannot be the co-dependent support for your husband. But then affairs are a nasty thing in that they destroy what the pretend to help… YOU. The only way you can help your husband is to remove yourself from the co-dependent role and start to really take care of yourself. That means ending the affair because the affair is causing you harm. It’s preventing you from dealing with the issues at hand.
> 
> The way to fix this is to start out by really putting yourself first. Unfortunately you will have to tell both your husband and your AP about the truth. When you do this your husband might completely fall part. Or he might wake up. That’s up to him. If your husband decides that he wants to reconcile (it’s his choice, not yours), you are going to have to tell him that he has to get the help he needs because you cannot go on being his mother and counselor.


That is exactly what my therapist said, that my husband is treating me as his mother and counselor, and that I am allowing him to do so. During the worst part of his illness, he was actually physically clinging to me like a child would do to a mother. I was very turned off by this and let him know it was seriously affecting my ability to be attracted to him as a husband. Now one question I have, and this may seem like a ridiculously stupid question, but what purpose does it serve to tell the truth to my husband at this point with respect to fixing our marriage? I ask because I feel it will further hurt him and futher damage our relationship, not to mention would destroy my relationship with his family, so I am trying to understand how that helps either his mental health or our relationship.


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## EleGirl

candy12 said:


> That is exactly what my therapist said, that my husband is treating me as his mother and counselor, and that I am allowing him to do so. During the worst part of his illness, he was actually physically clinging to me like a child would do to a mother. I was very turned off by this and let him know it was seriously affecting my ability to be attracted to him as a husband. Now one question I have, and this may seem like a ridiculously stupid question, but what purpose does it serve to tell the truth to my husband at this point with respect to fixing our marriage? I ask because I feel it will further hurt him and futher damage our relationship, not to mention would destroy my relationship with his family, so I am trying to understand how that helps either his mental health or our relationship.


There are two schools of thought on telling the spouse. 

One says to tell because a marriage based on lies is a lie. It will drive a wedge between the two of you over time that you can never heal.

The other school is that you do not tell him. Instead it's your secret and you spend the rest of your life being the best wife ever to make it up to him.

Because of your husband's mental heal, I do wonder if not telling him might be the better solution. 

If you are going to divorce him, maybe just leaving and not telling him might be the kindest thing in this case.


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## Paradise

candy12 said:


> Now one question I have, and this may seem like a ridiculously *stupid question*, but what purpose does it serve to *tell the truth* to my husband at this point with respect to fixing our marriage? I ask because I feel it will further hurt him and futher damage our relationship, not to mention would destroy my relationship with his family, so I am trying to understand how that helps either his mental health or our relationship.


WOW! Seriously....WOW!!! You are trying your best to save face with everyone around you. You don't want to look like the bad guy so the justification begins again. 

I really feel bad for your husband. And....I sure hope the OM finds out the truth so he can at least make his own decision. I know the truth won't come from you so hopefully someone will fill him in.


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## jnj express

Hey Candy---how does it feel to be a ping pong ball

Won't get a D---your scared---won't leave your lover---you'll be devastated----on and on and on

Let me ask you one thing----DO YOU LIKE YOUR LIFE----do you enjoy living as you are now??????

Your mge is a sham----you are with a lover, but in all reality---that relationship is only one as if you were at Disneyland---it is not REALITY BASED----you have no idea, what life would be like with your lover---if REALITY WERE THROWN INTO THE MIX

You need to get a D---AND, get away from your lover----AND,---- start all over

From the way it sounds, if you tell your H., you will completely destroy him----so that isn't a very good idea---but you can't stay with him and continue to cheat

As to your lover---he is a lowlife POS----as he has taken another man's wife---and please do not defend him---the truth is the truth, and your lover is scum, for what is has aided you to do

What you do is up to you---but please at least give your H, a break and D him. By the way just FYI----A. hookups have a 97% FAILURE RATE


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## Decorum

candy12 said:


> Now one question I have, and this may seem like a ridiculously stupid question, but what purpose does it serve to tell the truth to my husband at this point with respect to fixing our marriage? I ask because I feel it will further hurt him and futher damage our relationship, not to mention would destroy my relationship with his family, so I am trying to understand how that helps either his mental health or our relationship.


Candy if your husband were a man with a healthy psyche would you still ask this question?

You seem comfortable hiding things and keeping secrets from your partner(s), this indicates that you are actually not moving past the acquaintance level of a relationship and you are actually not achiving intimacy.

Nor are you expering genuine love, giving and receivng.

That means you are living off attention and self-esteem boosting feelings. I now can say that you do not love the other man, you love being loved.

You are feeding an ugly flaw in your emotional makeup.
Whatever choice you make you will need to address this or it will continue to sabotage your relationships.

Any help you get should not just validate your feelings but move you toward a healthy independent emotional makeup.

Take care!


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## lifeistooshort

I've never understood peoples inability to just leave a relationship or marriage that isn't working (yes I did it) People make all kinds of excuses up: the kids, the finances, they feel bad, blah blah blah. The real issue is that it's much easier to face the demon you know vs the demon you don't. What's the problem just filing and getting out off this marriage? Hubby will be depressed? Is that all it takes to manipulate you? Nobody is benefiting from this, including your hubby, who is quite selfish himself in his refusal to get help. Maybe the reason he refuses is because he knows as long as he's sick he can manipulate you into staying? As soon as he's well you have no more reason to stick around, at least in his mind. See a lawyer and end this; you don't have a husband, you have a dependent and as long as you're around he will remain that way. Your om doesn't even matter here, your non existent marriage does.
And decorum, nice to meet you too 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## candy12

lifeistooshort said:


> I've never understood peoples inability to just leave a relationship or marriage that isn't working (yes I did it) People make all kinds of excuses up: the kids, the finances, they feel bad, blah blah blah. The real issue is that it's much easier to face the demon you know vs the demon you don't. What's the problem just filing and getting out off this marriage? Hubby will be depressed? Is that all it takes to manipulate you? Nobody is benefiting from this, including your hubby, who is quite selfish himself in his refusal to get help. Maybe the reason he refuses is because he knows as long as he's sick he can manipulate you into staying? As soon as he's well you have no more reason to stick around, at least in his mind. See a lawyer and end this; you don't have a husband, you have a dependent and as long as you're around he will remain that way. Your om doesn't even matter here, your non existent marriage does.
> And decorum, nice to meet you too
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 It's basically like a rollercoaster. Last night hubby seemed perfectly fine, we had some enjoyable conversations and dinner together. Then this morning as I'm getting ready to leave for work, he starts obsessing about one of his past encounters (one in which he had sexual contact with a male friend while drunk in college, 18 years ago), asking me questions like - "did I stay over your place the night before that?" etc... I told him to please stop discussing these things with me, I am not your therapist and I don't want to hear it. I felt repulsed and thought to myself I really need to leave him. About 5 minutes later he came over to me and apologized, saying he needed professional help, then I felt bad for him and about wanting to leave him. Will he actually get help? probably not. He is relying on the drugs only to solve his problems, and they are only helping minimally and turning him into a zombie who lays on the couch all the time


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## candy12

Decorum said:


> You seem comfortable hiding things and keeping secrets from your partner(s), this indicates that you are actually not moving past the acquaintance level of a relationship and you are actually not achiving intimacy.


This is true, I have never felt much more than an acquaintance with my husband. I'm not sure why that is exactly. I think there has always been a kind of disconnect between us from the beginning.



Decorum said:


> you are living off attention and self-esteem boosting feelings


Valid point.




jnj express said:


> Let me ask you one thing----DO YOU LIKE YOUR LIFE----do you enjoy living as you are now??????


The answer is a big fat NO. It is interfering with work, sleep, everything. I feel happy because of OM but I'm realizing it is an artificial happiness since the relationship isn't a real relationship.


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## A Bit Much

candy12 said:


> It's basically like a rollercoaster. Last night hubby seemed perfectly fine, we had some enjoyable conversations and dinner together. Then this morning as I'm getting ready to leave for work, he starts obsessing about one of his past encounters (one in which he had sexual contact with a male friend while drunk in college, 18 years ago), asking me questions like - "did I stay over your place the night before that?" etc... I told him to please stop discussing these things with me, I am not your therapist and I don't want to hear it. I felt repulsed and thought to myself I really need to leave him. About 5 minutes later he came over to me and apologized, saying he needed professional help, then I felt bad for him and about wanting to leave him. Will he actually get help? probably not. He is relying on the drugs only to solve his problems, and they are only helping minimally and turning him into a zombie who lays on the couch all the time



You can keep riding the coaster as long as the OM doesn't make any demands on you. When the time comes for that... then what will you do? He's in the dark about your situation and with every day his feelings may be growing for you. At some point he's going to want more from you than a weekend lunch date or whatever it is you two currently do. Being so selfish has a steep price. You're bringing an innocent man into your unfinished drama with your husband and it's not fair or right.

And you know your husband isn't going to seek treatment. He's made it clear to you already he has no plans for therapy of any kind. He's content to take meds and lay around and tell you what you want to hear because THAT WORKS FOR HIM.


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## candy12

A Bit Much said:


> You can keep riding the coaster as long as the OM doesn't make any demands on you. When the time comes for that... then what will you do? He's in the dark about your situation and with every day his feelings may be growing for you. At some point he's going to want more from you than a weekend lunch date or whatever it is you two currently do.


Yes, he has already begun to tell me he wants more.



> And you know your husband isn't going to seek treatment. He's made it clear to you already he has no plans for therapy of any kind. He's content to take meds and lay around and tell you what you want to hear because THAT WORKS FOR HIM.


yes you are right. I keep hoping it will change but there are no signs telling me it will.


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## lifeistooshort

candy12 said:


> Yes, he has already begun to tell me he wants more.
> 
> 
> 
> yes you are right. I keep hoping it will change but there are no signs telling me it will.



Ask yourself if he did change would you then be attracted to him as a husband or has that ship sailed? Of course odds are that he won't, and he himself is not interested in having a wife so whether you are attracted to him as a husband probably doesn't make much difference to him. And i so get the acquaintance thing, that's how I felt about my ex. Divorcing him was one of the best things I ever did, and he's actually happier now because I wasn't good for him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lisab0105

candy12 said:


> It's basically like a rollercoaster. Last night hubby seemed perfectly fine, we had some enjoyable conversations and dinner together. Then this morning as I'm getting ready to leave for work, he starts obsessing about one of his past encounters (one in which he had sexual contact with a male friend while drunk in college, 18 years ago), asking me questions like - "did I stay over your place the night before that?" etc... I told him to please stop discussing these things with me, I am not your therapist and I don't want to hear it. I felt repulsed and thought to myself I really need to leave him. About 5 minutes later he came over to me and apologized, saying he needed professional help, then I felt bad for him and about wanting to leave him. Will he actually get help? probably not. He is relying on the drugs only to solve his problems, and they are only helping minimally and turning him into a zombie who lays on the couch all the time



You felt repulsed??? Imagine how he would feel if he knew you were laying down with another man and then crawling back into your marriage bed? THAT is repulsive.


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## turnera

candy12 said:


> so I am trying to understand how that helps either his mental health or our relationship.


 Well, there IS no relationship if you are keeping that sort of revelation from him; only a convenience. You have to ask yourself what you want.


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## Hicks

You seem to be great at making bad choices in life.

You married the wrong man. You married for the wrong reasons. You deal with your marital issues in the wrong way.

Are you afraid of making good choices? That's something you should figure out.


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## Maneo

Enough already. The situation has been presented. People have provided feedback as requested with a number of suggested actions, almost all with a common theme of coming clean with one or both men. What comes back is, "yes I know. I'm being bad. I'm using poor judgement." Yadda, yadda, yadda. Not one scintilla of action planned or taken. 
I don't see much more to add to this soap opera until until the central player does something other than carry on with the current deceptions which sooner or later will unravel at the seams.


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## somethingelse

We're talking to a broken record


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## candy12

I am taking in and considering all of the advice presented. I am going to end it with the OM as soon as I have the opportunity to speak with him. Thank you for all your advice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Maneo

candy12 said:


> I am taking in and considering all of the advice presented. I am going to end it with the OM as soon as I have the opportunity to speak with him. Thank you for all your advice.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good luck. Not an easy thing, but as most here have suggested, something that needs doing.


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## PBear

And what are you going to do about your husband?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## candy12

Maneo said:


> Good luck. Not an easy thing, but as most here have suggested, something that needs doing.


I haven't stopped crying since I've come to terms with the fact that I must do this. I feel physically ill.



PBear said:


> And what are you going to do about your husband?


I don't know yet. I guess I'll see how things are without OM in the picture and take it from there.


----------



## Decorum

candy12 said:


> I am taking in and considering all of the advice presented. I am going to end it with the OM as soon as I have the opportunity to speak with him. Thank you for all your advice.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Dont just end it, tell him the truth, that you lied, that your marriage was never over as far as your husband knew and that you drifted in and out of trying to save the marriage.

That you used om like a drug and you know the relationship was a sham, you are sorry, that was wrong of you, you feel you must have honest relationships from now on and that begins with your husband and your marriage, "Please do not contact me again personally or inquire about me personally, any business we conduct will have to be from arms length going forward." No emotional goodby's "i love you , will miss you"

Spare your husband that final betrayal and the om that open door and false hope.

Then yes, your husband must help himself and you will have to take some hard stands, be a better person and do, you will sleep better, I wish you well, and I respect the fact that you are looking for honest answers.
Take care!


----------



## turnera

The best case I see is that you give up OM (that's a deal with the devil) AND you separate from your husband. That way, you remove yourself from his mentally ill issues and learn to care about yourself, your husband seeks (or not) mental help since you're not there to prop him up, and OM does whatever he needs to do without a cheating married woman.


----------



## candy12

Decorum said:


> Dont just end it, tell him the truth, that you lied, that your marriage was never over as far as your husband knew and that you drifted in and out of trying to save the marriage.


Well actually OM knows this...I have let the OM know all along that my marriage was not over, that divorce was not a sure thing and I was still working things out with marriage and deciding what I ultimately want. So in essence, he knows that I may never get a divorce and may never end up together with him, and yet if I do get a divorce I want to be with him. But yes I am going to tell him I can no longer continue with dishonesty on both sides, what I am doing is wrong, and this is why I must end it.



lifeistooshort said:


> Ask yourself if he did change would you then be attracted to him as a husband or has that ship sailed?


I have been thinking about the answer to this question, and I have realized that even if he did change I would not be attracted to him sexually. The obsessing about his sexual encounters with a male college friend, and with his male high school friends as a pre-teen/young teenager, have turned me off from him sexually, not that our sex life was that great to begin with. Is it wrong for me to feel this way? Is this kind of lack of sexual attraction a reason to end a marriage? I feel like evertything I'm thinking and doing is wrong so I don't even know any more!


----------



## turnera

Women have to have a good relationship with their spouse to be attracted to him sexually. Men are the other way around - need the sex to have a good relationship. Generally speaking. The reason you're not attracted is he treats you like crap.


----------



## Shaggy

I can't help but think you aren't attracted to your husband largely because you have the OM and you don't want to cheat on the OM. 

See that's a huge part of the harm affairs do. They make the cheater despise the bs. So of course you don't find your husband attractive. 

So the OM knows you have been cheating then? That does not say good things about his character. A strong good man would not accept being the OM ever
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

Yeah. If you can honestly look at your life before you saw greener grass and KNOW you didn't like him back then, then fine. But greener grass almost IMMEDIATELY makes YOUR grass pale in comparison.

That's why you have to give up OM before you can do anything else. Even if you DON'T stay with your H.


----------



## candy12

Shaggy said:


> I can't help but think you aren't attracted to your husband largely because you have the OM and you don't want to cheat on the OM.
> 
> See that's a huge part of the harm affairs do. They make the cheater despise the bs. So of course you don't find your husband attractive.


I do believe the affair has intensified the lack of attraction. However, I have only felt mildy attracted to him for most of our marriage, and that has declined dramtically since the OCD started. The affair put the nail in the coffin.


> So the OM knows you have been cheating then? That does not say good things about his character. A strong good man would not accept being the OM ever


OM has a character trait that is both a positive and a flaw. He is very caring of others, and always puts others before himself. He has admitted he gets used as a 'doormat'. He is a very good man, although maybe not 'strong' in the ego department. He did express in the beginning he felt like a homewrecker. I told him that my relationship with him has no bearing on the outcome of my marriage (however I am now realizing this is not the case), and if he wanted out of this relationship I would completely understand. I have given this option to him about 4 or 5 times.

Whenever I bring this up he immediately responds that he cannot leave, he loves me too much and couldn't bear to not be with me. At the same time if I wanted to leave he would deal with it. He often says that I can tell him anything, even if it's something he doesn't want to hear. However,he says this with tears running down his face due to the thought of losing me. Obvsiously, I have not taken the initiative to end it myself, for the same reasons he does not want to end it.


----------



## lisab0105

I just have to shake my head when you say something about how disgusted your are at your husband for obsessing about a past sexual encounter when YOU yourself are obsessing over your love affair with your OM. 

Your husband would probably be just as disgusted with you and at you as you are him if he knew. 

You are no better than your husband, no matter how much you bad mouth him in the thread.


----------



## candy12

I am going to be discussing the advice I received here with my therapist this evening. My therapist, who is a well-known MC and has written books, been on TV etc..., gave me pretty much the same advice (without the judgment). I didn't want to take that advice so since then she has been supporting, almost encouraging my cake eating while telling me at some point soon I need to make a decision on which man I want to be with. She has been steering me towards divorcing H and being with OM. I have been rationalizing my behavior as a result and now after posting here my eyes are opened to what I am really doing.


----------



## turnera

candy12 said:


> My therapist, who is a well-known MC and has written books, been on TV etc..., gave me pretty much the same advice (without the judgment).


Well, duh, that's because you PAY her.

We can be as cutthroat as we want, cos it's no skin off our nose if you don't hear what you want to hear, and leave.  

Not that we WANT you to, mind. More like we feel freer to tell you the truth and give you the tough love. We're not doing this to hurt you. We're doing it to HELP you and SAVE you from the pain we know you will be in, in another 6 months or a year. Because there is a SCRIPT to cheating. Your case is no different from the thousands of other cheaters/cheated upon I've seen. WE all know what's going to happen. YOU don't, because this is your first time.

fwiw, I've been dispensing 'advice' on places like this for 11 years, talked to thousands of posters like you, and 75% of all the issues have revolved around cheating. So I consider myself a pretty good expert on what works and what doesn't, and how affairages turn out.


----------



## somethingelse

candy12 said:


> I am going to be discussing the advice I received here with my therapist this evening. My therapist, who is a well-known MC and has written books, been on TV etc..., gave me pretty much the same advice (without the judgment). I didn't want to take that advice so since then she has been supporting, almost encouraging my cake eating while telling me at some point soon I need to make a decision on which man I want to be with. She has been steering me towards divorcing H and being with OM. I have been rationalizing my behavior as a result and now after posting here my eyes are opened to what I am really doing.


Wow. Get rid of your therapist. She's probably just living vicariously through you by the sounds of it. 

Once this A is over, you're going to wake up candy. Seriously. You're in the fog right now


----------



## warlock07

candy12 said:


> I do believe the affair has intensified the lack of attraction. However, I have only felt mildy attracted to him for most of our marriage, and that has declined dramtically since the OCD started. The affair put the nail in the coffin.
> 
> 
> OM has a character trait that is both a positive and a flaw. He is very caring of others, and always puts others before himself. He has admitted he gets used as a 'doormat'. He is a very good man, although maybe not 'strong' in the ego department. He did express in the beginning he felt like a homewrecker. I told him that my relationship with him has no bearing on the outcome of my marriage (however I am now realizing this is not the case), and if he wanted out of this relationship I would completely understand. I have given this option to him about 4 or 5 times.
> 
> Whenever I bring this up he immediately responds that he cannot leave, he loves me too much and couldn't bear to not be with me. At the same time if I wanted to leave he would deal with it. He often says that I can tell him anything, even if it's something he doesn't want to hear. However,he says this with tears running down his face due to the thought of losing me. Obvsiously, I have not taken the initiative to end it myself, for the same reasons he does not want to end it.


The OM behavior has huge red flags and there is manipulative behavior. You are too blinded by love to see the obvious. You should probably rethink your choice of men in general.


----------



## candy12

warlock07 said:


> The OM behavior has huge red flags and there is manipulative behavior. You are too blinded by love to see the obvious. You should probably rethink your choice of men in general.


Can you explain what you mean by red flags and manipulative behavior? Yes I am too blinded by love to see it.


----------



## domah

candy12 said:


> I am new here and hoping for some advice.


I'm sure you'll get plenty of advice; however, you probably wouldn't have posted what you did if you didn't already know what you are doing is morally wrong.



> He is immature, a little self -centered and materialistic, negative... <cut>
> He also has a problem with drinking. <cut>


Sounds like you are looking to rationalize your actions.



> About a year ago I met a man through work (he was a client of my company). We instantly connected, and he asked me out to dinner, not realizing I was married.


You need to either stop seeing this other man immediately, or tell your husband you no longer have feelings for him and come clean. You are doing both of them harm right now.



> I am seeing a therapist but I still feel lost. I need to stop leading these two men on.


At least you know that you are morally in the wrong.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Any time you take up drug use instead of dealing with an actual problem, you double the original problem.

An affair is like a drug.

Do you know anything about addiction?

Do you understand how an addict cannot make the right choices for herself because she is addicted? That even if she wants to give up her drug, she will not be able to alone (usually) because she is addicted and her brain will mess up every effort she makes to get clean. Addicts many times wish they were clean, they can see the devastation that they are causing in their lives and the lives of their loved ones, but they still can't stop on their own (usually).

This is how you are going to have to understand things before you try to break it off with the OM. The affair is a drug to you, one which you started using instead of facing your real problems in your marriage. You are likely not going to be able to just end it with OM. You say you will, you say you "get it now", yet when you go to do it, even if you are successful with some kind of conversation to end it...in a few days one of you will contact the other and it will be on again.

If you really want to do this, you will need to get someone to hold you accountable. I wouldn't recommend your therapist for this. Do you have a sibling or life long BFF who won't judge you but will just help you? Someone you can confess to, who you will tell when you have ended it with OM, and who can hold you accountable to this?

Just expect the break up to be unsuccessful if you don't do this, ok? Try to appreciate just how deeply you are under the spell of an addiction.

As to your marriage...

Tell him or not, but leave him now. The best thing to do would be to confess to him, but even if you don't, leave now. With no children, there isn't much to save here. I don't usually just throw out the D card, but you clearly hate your husband (affair aside) and this really isn't likely to change. Just woman up, accept that you have grown to hate him (which is something you still chose, by staying with him), take responsibility for using drugs (affair) instead of dealing with it like an adult, and move out today.


----------



## candy12

Faithful Wife said:


> An affair is like a drug.
> 
> 
> Do you understand how an addict cannot make the right choices for herself because she is addicted?
> 
> Try to appreciate just how deeply you are under the spell of an addiction.



This is the kind of thing I wish my MC told me about, to put things in perspective. It is like a drug, like a high. I have been thinking so irrationally. Like...not caring if I got caught. Ridiculous! MC realized I didn't want to listen to reason and basically let me control the therapy because I wasn't going to have it any other way.


> As to your marriage...
> 
> I don't usually just throw out the D card, but you clearly hate your husband (affair aside) and this really isn't likely to change.


I actually only hate him some of the time. He has his endearing moments, which however seem to crop up most when he thinks I'm serious about leaving him, and dissipates over time. Despite all his faults he is honest, unlike me. 



> You are likely not going to be able to just end it with OM. You say you will, you say you "get it now", yet when you go to do it, even if you are successful with some kind of conversation to end it...in a few days one of you will contact the other and it will be on again.


Yes, I know, especially since we have to be in contact occassionally on a professional basis. I don't really have anyone to help me or confess too unfortunately. I don't really have any close friends, and my sister would stress me out even more (despite the fact that she is a social worker!) This is going to be very, very hard.


----------



## turnera

Ask your IC to help you find an accountability partner.


----------



## LanieB

I agree with Faithful Wife. Tell your husband or don't tell him, but the only reasonable choice here is to divorce him. You obviously don't love him, you just feel guilty - because you don't love him, and because you're now cheating on him. You would be doing both of you a favor to divorce.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> By Candy12
> OM has a character trait that is both a positive and a flaw. He is very caring of others, and always puts others before himself. He has admitted he gets used as a 'doormat'. He is a very good man, although maybe not 'strong' in the ego department. He did express in the beginning he felt like a home wrecker. I told him that my relationship with him has no bearing on the outcome of my marriage (however I am now realizing this is not the case), and if he wanted out of this relationship I would completely understand. I have given this option to him about 4 or 5 times.
> 
> Whenever I bring this up he immediately responds that he cannot leave, he loves me too much and couldn't bear to not be with me. At the same time if I wanted to leave he would deal with it. He often says that I can tell him anything, even if it's something he doesn't want to hear. However,he says this with tears running down his face due to the thought of losing me. Obvsiously, I have not taken the initiative to end it myself, for the same reasons he does not want to end it.






> OM has a character trait that is both a positive and a flaw. He is very caring of others, and always puts others before himself.


*No he does not. He put himself before your husband*





> He has admitted he gets used as a 'doormat'.


*The man has a low self-respect*



> However, he says this with tears running down his face due to the thought of losing me


Here is a man that allows himself to be a doormat, knows that you were deceitful to get the relationship going, knows that he is a home wrecker, does not respect marriage or your husband, and is shedding tears at the thought of losing you. 
*That all sounds like a weak man to me.*


The best thing that you have done so far is to not have any children with your husband whom you hate at times


I think your MC sucks!


----------



## somethingelse

Mr Blunt said:


> *No he does not. He put himself before your husband*
> 
> 
> 
> *The man has a low self-respect*
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a man that allows himself to be a doormat, knows that you were deceitful to get the relationship going, knows that he is a home wrecker, does not respect marriage or your husband, and is shedding tears at the thought of losing you.
> *That all sounds like a weak man to me.*
> 
> 
> The best thing that you have done so far is to not have any children with your husband whom you hate at times
> 
> 
> I think your MC sucks!


Candy, if you stay with OM, be prepared to want to D him too


----------



## Sadanddepressed68

Wow. I have to believe that you know you were wrong going out with the other man when you already had a man at home. No matter the circumstances at home, you are married. I feel that when one spouse is unhappy, there should be counseling if one feels the marriage can or should be saved. If the decision is that it is already too far gone, or unsalvagable with the help of counsel, then the marriage should end before a new relationship is started. That is to be fair to all involved. You are rebounding and no matter how things look with the new guy, there will certainly be things you won't like when you finally do end your current life and move fully into a new. Some things may end up being worse than before. Then what? 
Do you think the new man should trust in you considering you've already lied and stepped out on you husband which I feel are the two sins I cannot live with. I am married, 6 years with my man and most of our life has been rocky. I wouldn't dream of cheating on him because I have been the one cheated on in the past....I will never forget that kind of pain. It is like grieving a death, a heartbreak, a death sentence. No lie. Anyhow, you have already made mistakes here. If you can be honest with yourself, both men should be told what you have been up to and for how long. Let either of them make the choice of how to handle the future. It should be their choice, to me, you should not be with either since you weren't happy at home, and everything with the new guy is based on a lie. 

***JUST MY OPINION.


----------



## candy12

LanieB said:


> You obviously don't love him, you just feel guilty - because you don't love him, and because you're now cheating on him. You would be doing both of you a favor to divorce.


I have really been thinking about how I feel about my husband, and I do love him, I do not hate him. I FEEL like I hate him sometimes though. It's not the romantic type of love right now, but there is love. The last couple of days my husband has been improving...he knows I have not been happy and as I've said, has caught me talking on the phone and texting. He complimented me on how I look this morning (something I haven't heard in years) and didn't completely blow up at me yesterday when I accidentally scratched the wheel on his car while parking on the street (normally he would have screamed at me, called me an idiot etc)... He has also been giving me a kiss goodbye in the morning on the way to work, and taking more inititiate with things around the house. He wouldn't be trying to improve like this if he didn't think I was halfway out the door. He may not have been the best man for me but I don't think I want to get a divorce just yet...I want to see how long this goes.


----------



## candy12

Mr Blunt said:


> That all sounds like a weak man to me


I agree, I think that can be said about my husband too. I tend to be attracted to men who are sensitive and emotional,and that seems to often go along with weakness.



> I think your MC sucks!


I printed out some of the responses I received here on TAM and read them to my MC Wed night. First, she was shocked that I posted about this online. Second, she seemed a little irritated that I am taking the advice here and ignored it when she presented it to me. The difference is, she wasn't firm about it like you guys are. She let me take control of the therapy and gave me advice to appease me rather then tell it like it is. As another poster mentioned, the financial stake in keeping me there probably was the reason. Now I'm not sure if I trust the advice of anyone who is paid to dispense it.


----------



## Faithful Wife

"I don't think I want to get a divorce just yet...I want to see how long this lasts."


Yes, of course you do...it is called cake-eating and it is what everyone who is having an affair wants....they want BOTH.


----------



## candy12

Faithful Wife said:


> "I don't think I want to get a divorce just yet...I want to see how long this lasts."
> 
> 
> Yes, of course you do...it is called cake-eating and it is what everyone who is having an affair wants....they want BOTH.


No I meant I am breaking it off with OM, but not divorcing husband right now


----------



## Faithful Wife

Right...except please re-read my post #95, where I explain that an addict can claim they will "quit" as many times as necessary to get herself to believe her own words...yet she is unable to on her own. And to which you already replied that you have no one to help you.

And here you are, still believing you have the power to cut it off with him.

You won't have that power, I promise you.

So you will continue to cake-eat. As I said above.

Have you done any reading about affairs and about how they follow the same script? I know it must seem weird that total strangers can accurately predict what you will say and do, because to YOU this is a unique situation. However, everything you are saying and doing come from the same script.


----------



## the guy

candy12 said:


> No I meant I am breaking it off with OM, but not divorcing husband right now


Another job well done by the TAM community!

I'll leave it at that cuz being a BH I'd love to get all judgemental.


----------



## the guy

Wait what......

"right now" ????


----------



## the guy

Faithful Wife said:


> And here you are, still believing you have the power to cut it off with him.
> 
> You won't have that power,


@FW, thats were the "right now" comes into play.


----------



## Faithful Wife

If she is going to stay with her husband, he deserves to know the truth of what she has done to their marriage.


----------



## candy12

Faithful Wife said:


> Right...except please re-read my post #95, where I explain that an addict can claim they will "quit" as many times as necessary to get herself to believe her own words...yet she is unable to on her own. And to which you already replied that you have no one to help you.
> 
> And here you are, still believing you have the power to cut it off with him.
> 
> You won't have that power, I promise you.
> 
> So you will continue to cake-eat. As I said above.
> 
> Have you done any reading about affairs and about how they follow the same script? I know it must seem weird that total strangers can accurately predict what you will say and do, because to YOU this is a unique situation. However, everything you are saying and doing come from the same script.


There is the possibliity that if I paint myself in a bad-enough light to OM, he may never want to see me again anyway.


----------



## A Bit Much

I don't think you need to paint the OM any pictures. Just cut him off and be done with him. At this stage of the game the more explaining you try to do the more consumed you'll become if he protests. And he will. You know that already. 

I'm not saying he doesn't at least deserve a talk, but the talk should be brief and pointed. This talk should be about you and your decision to NOT continue to lie. Finit. Done.


----------



## turnera

candy12 said:


> There is the possibliity that if I paint myself in a bad-enough light to OM, he may never want to see me again anyway.


 Or...you could just man up and DELETE him from your life and not ALLOW him to contact you.


----------



## JCD

Okay. From what it sounds like, this OM is bait of a passive aggressive wuss whose only redeeming feature is he isn't obsessing about his ****-erotic past and is actually conscious enough to take you to lunch and maybe manage an erection.

This is a pretty low bar for 'man of my dreams'.

But let's pretend that he actually has self respect and doesn't cry at the thought of leaving you.

If I were him and found out the game you were playing with your hubby, I'd continue the relationship. Why? I want in your pants. Long term material? Not so much.

As far as the husband goes? Unless you want to continue to hear him talk about his past, and only healing enough to keep you, I'd dump him.

First, despite how low quality he is, you don't deserve this relationship (both ways, to continue the binary theme of the thread)

Second, he isn't seeking help.

Third...you need to put all of this junk behind you to become the much better 'you' that you are. I have no doubt that outside your cheating, you are probably too god for hubby. He realizes this too. You need to set aside ALL your bad choices, get a new job and get on with your life 2.0.

Now, if you give any credence to your wedding vows of 'better or worse',you move to a friends place or if that is not feasible, you move to the couch and tell the Marquis De Sob (hubby) that you are seeing a divorce lawyer in one month. He has that long to get to a therapist, drop his pill addictions and get his ass off the sofa.

The appointment is made. The retainer is paid. Show him the receipt.

See what this does.


----------



## LanieB

candy12 said:


> I agree, I think that can be said about my husband too. I tend to be attracted to men who are sensitive and emotional,and that seems to often go along with weakness.
> 
> 
> 
> I printed out some of the responses I received here on TAM and read them to my MC Wed night. First, she was shocked that I posted about this online. Second, she seemed a little irritated that I am taking the advice here and ignored it when she presented it to me. The difference is, she wasn't firm about it like you guys are. She let me take control of the therapy and gave me advice to appease me rather then tell it like it is. As another poster mentioned, the financial stake in keeping me there probably was the reason. Now I'm not sure if I trust the advice of anyone who is paid to dispense it.


For what it's worth . . . I went to counselor for a short while and quickly decided she was a flake (and was basically saying whatever she thought I wanted to hear). I also quickly decided that these people here on TAM know what the heck they're talking about, especially regarding infidelity in marriage. I just don't believe marital advice gets any better than this. Plus these people have no agenda here ($$) - it's FREE.

It sounds like you have a plan now - dump OM and work on your marriage a while. I don't have a good feeling about the marriage, but you never know.


----------



## Thound

JCD said:


> Okay. From what it sounds like, this OM is bait of a passive aggressive wuss whose only redeeming feature is he isn't obsessing about his ****-erotic past and is actually conscious enough to take you to lunch and maybe manage an erection.
> 
> This is a pretty low bar for 'man of my dreams'.
> 
> But let's pretend that he actually has self respect and doesn't cry at the thought of leaving you.
> 
> If I were him and found out the game you were playing with your hubby, I'd continue the relationship. Why? I want in your pants. Long term material? Not so much.
> 
> As far as the husband goes? Unless you want to continue to hear him talk about his past, and only healing enough to keep you, I'd dump him.
> 
> First, despite how low quality he is, you don't deserve this relationship (both ways, to continue the binary theme of the thread)
> 
> Second, he isn't seeking help.
> 
> Third...you need to put all of this junk behind you to become the much better 'you' that you are. I have no doubt that outside your cheating, you are probably too god for hubby. He realizes this too. You need to set aside ALL your bad choices, get a new job and get on with your life 2.0.
> 
> Now, if you give any credence to your wedding vows of 'better or worse',you move to a friends place or if that is not feasible, you move to the couch and tell the Marquis De Sob (hubby) that you are seeing a divorce lawyer in one month. He has that long to get to a therapist, drop his pill addictions and get his ass off the sofa.
> 
> The appointment is made. The retainer is paid. Show him the receipt.
> 
> See what this does.


OUCH!!!!! Laser like accuracy and on the nose. Hell I would pay you to be my IC.


----------



## terrence4159

please D your husband, i have a feeling he is not 5% as bad as you say. how many time does the cheater come on here and demonize their SO so it doesnt look so bad that they are cheating!?


----------



## PBear

I'm confused... Have you broken up with your OM yet or not?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## candy12

PBear said:


> I'm confused... Have you broken up with your OM yet or not?
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not yet, I won't be seeing him until next week because he has his son this weekend. But, that is the plan.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

candy12 said:


> There is the possibliity that if I paint myself in a bad-enough light to OM, he may never want to see me again anyway.


Sorry lady but he will happily have sex with you. He has to put nothing into the relationship and he gets a woman who put tremendous effort into pleasing him and praising him. All the ill feelings and anger you have gets sent to your husband, while the OM gets the cream.

He will tell you he understands, he will offer you any space you need and he will follow up after a very short break with a kind, hi how are you, I've been worried about how you ate doing, do you want to have a coffee sometime? He will do it because he knows with a little feigned interest and words he will get laid.


You seem to have no realized about ICs, they aren't there to make you a better more moral honest person. They are there to provide self justification for you don't whatever makes you feel good.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Why do you have to see him to break up with him? Just call him.

Oh that's right...because you "owe" him some closure.

It is all straight from the script.


----------



## Thebes

I know cheating is tempting when your not being treated right at home, you just want a little romantic and loving attention instead of insults, tantrums and being cheated on. You should break it off with the OM and tell him the truth and see if there is something worth saving in your marriage or you divorce him.


----------



## Shaggy

Faithful Wife said:


> Why do you have to see him to break up with him? Just call him.
> 
> Oh that's right...because you "owe" him some closure.
> 
> It is all straight from the script.


She's obviously going to have sex with the OM as a way to break it to him softly.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> Originally Posted by Mr Blunt
> 
> That all sounds like a weak man to me
> *By Candy*
> I agree, I think that can be said about my husband too. I tend to be attracted to men who are sensitive and emotional, and that seems to often go along with weakness.


You are attracted to weak men? 
That would seem to indicate that you need to work on you.
So far you have agreed that your husband is weak, your OM is weak, and your MC is a poor counselor. You would do yourself a favor if you spent the time you do on those three people and use that time to work on you. You cannot control anyone but you and right now you are not doing a very good job of that. If you were a man I would tell you to grow some balls. Since you are a woman I will tell you to act like a woman instead of an emotionally needy teenager.



> *By Broken at 20*
> I think you were young and stupid, and got married because you were at an emotionally needy time in your life. So you found this guy, who is a loser socially, but somehow makes a good living. And you got married.
> 
> By Candy
> Yes, you are exactly correct.


If you have to get help from a person that really cares about you such as family, friends, church, a good therapist, etc. *They can help you get started but it will all boil down to you!*
You do not want to keep damaging yourself becuase you may get to where no one will want you except HUGE losers


----------



## EleGirl

candy12 said:


> Not yet, I won't be seeing him until next week because he has his son this weekend. But, that is the plan.


The way to break up with an affair partner is through a no contact letter. There are samples here on TAM and on the internet... use google to find them.

Do not see him again. Generally when a person tries to break up in person it just leads to continuation of the affair and more drama. It's like sitting there with a bag full of heroin and saying that you will not ever use again. How likely do you think it is that the heroin addict will just hold the bag and not use the drug? How likely are they to flush it down the toilet instead of hiding it for future use?

Write the letter. It might seem cold. But it's no where near as cold as having an affair and cheating on your husband.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

candy12 said:


> Husband is aware that I am having a very difficult time dealing with his issues. He has refused to see a therapist to help him, and it got to the point where I threatened to leave him if he didn't see one. He still chose not to see a therapist. He feels he can get better on his own. I do agree that what I am doing is making his mental state worse. At the same time, I am not a therapist and have no interest in sitting home all day listening to him obsess about his past sexual encounters. I have told him this numerous times. Some of the encounters he has been obsessing about were homosexual in nature, although he swears he is not attracted to men and I do believe him. However this has negatively impacted my sexual attraction to him. I don't know why but it has.





> We do not have children.





> He is immature, a little self -centered and materialistic, negative, does not have a filter when he speaks and has embarrassed me on numerous occasions by sharing what should be private information with family, friends and coworkers. When he gets angry, he gets ANGRY. He has never gotten physical but will completely blow up and say insulting things to me out of anger. He gets into a state and it takes him a while to come out of. When he comes out of it he is then like a totally different person, holding different views than when he was angry. If I get angry with him over something he never takes me seriously and laughs at me. This made me somewhat unhappy in the first couple of years of our marriage. He started taking antianxiety meds and it did help a bit with the emotional control so it became less of an issue over time. I also learned over time to pick my battles so I just deal with his tantrums until he calms down and I don’t let it upset me.
> 
> He also has a problem with drinking. He does not drink alone, or often, but when he does he cannot control how much he drinks






> I have never felt much more than an acquaintance with my husband. I'm not sure why that is exactly. I think there has always been a kind of disconnect between us from the beginning.



Apart from the A, this is what seems to me a lost battle. 



1. He has severe mental problems, and needs a psychiatrist, butt will not see one.


2. Your life with him I would describe as miserable.


3. You have no kids.


4. He behaves bad towards you.


=


Leave the marriage.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

The OM has opened your eyes to what you missed in your life and in your relation. From a perspective of personal growth that is a good thing.

Accept that you now want more out of life, you cannot undo this knowledge, you cannot 'unwish' another future.

You need to leave the marriage and find a new future, with another man, more like OM.

You have to realise that according to the other posters here, the chances of a future with OM are minimal at best. So make your choice, but depend not on OM for that choice. Probably you will have to find some other, or live alone for a while.

I understand at the moment OM is who you really want, so I would say put him temporally on hold, tell him about these very considerations, and see if there is still a relation left if you are really separated from your husband.


----------



## Horizon

Paradise said:


> Lies, Lies, and more Lies...And...An excuse for every lie trying to rationalize it.
> 
> This is VERY simple! Since you cannot make up your mind on what to do here tell your husband and the OM the entire truth and at least allow them the chance to make up their minds on what they want their lives to look like.
> 
> No offense, but people like you (based on what you have stated) are my worst nightmare because there is no truth. Not saying your hubby is an angel because he obviously is not but this EA is all on you. I just cannot stand the rationalization of it all.


Spot on - candy12 you need to get your sh!t together and do the right thing PRONTO!


----------



## Viseral

If you leave your husband for another man, then give him everything in the divorce. That means no alimony, no child support, he gets the house, he gets the retirement package, and you only take your personal belongings.

Nothing is worse for a man than for his wife to cheat on him then ruin him financially. The law allows for this to be perfectly legal. 

You're the cheater. You have broken your vows, not him. Take responsibility for your actions and pay the consequences.


----------



## warlock07

candy12 said:


> There is the possibliity that if I paint myself in a bad-enough light to OM, he may never want to see me again anyway.


Come on!! He is having an affair with a married woman. You will have to set the bar pretty low


----------



## candy12

See_Listen_Love said:


> The OM has opened your eyes to what you missed in your life and in your relation. From a perspective of personal growth that is a good thing.
> 
> Accept that you now want more out of life, you cannot undo this knowledge, you cannot 'unwish' another future.


Yes, but this is why, when I try to think about what my life was like before the A and if I would have divorced my husband, it's impossible to say because I did not have information then then I did now. I was ignorant.


> act like a woman instead of an emotionally needy teenager.


You're right, I didn't realize how emotionally needy I am.




Shaggy said:


> You seem to have no realized about ICs, they aren't there to make you a better more moral honest person. They are there to provide self justification for you don't whatever makes you feel good.


Nope, didn't realize that, now I do.



Visceral said:


> Nothing is worse for a man than for his wife to cheat on him then ruin him financially. The law allows for this to be perfectly legal.


I have no interest in ruining him financially. I would give him pretty much everything he wanted. We have our own retirement accounts and we both make around the same salary so no alimony.



> You're the cheater. You have broken your vows, not him.


I realize that the kind of cheating I'm doing is far worse than what he did, but he DID cheat. Twice if you count the time he went to his brother's bachelor party weekend 8 months after the first cheating incident and, due to influence of alchohol and peer pressure, got several 45 minute lap dances with touching involved. He told me about the touching almost a year after it happened. Again, no excuse for what I'm doing but he is no innocent.


----------



## anchorwatch

Quote:
Originally Posted by See_Listen_Love 
The OM has opened your eyes to what you missed in your life and in your relation. From a perspective of personal growth that is a good thing.

Accept that you now want more out of life, you cannot undo this knowledge, you cannot 'unwish' another future.

Yes, but this is why, when I try to think about what my life was like before the A and if I would have divorced my husband, it's impossible to say because I did not have information then then I did now. I was ignorant.

Quote:
act like a woman instead of an emotionally needy teenager.

You're right, I didn't realize how emotionally needy I am.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy
You seem to have no realized about ICs, they aren't there to make you a better more moral honest person. They are there to provide self justification for you don't whatever makes you feel good.

Nope, didn't realize that, now I do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Visceral
Nothing is worse for a man than for his wife to cheat on him then ruin him financially. The law allows for this to be perfectly legal.

I have no interest in ruining him financially. I would give him pretty much everything he wanted. We have our own retirement accounts and we both make around the same salary so no alimony.

Quote:
You're the cheater. You have broken your vows, not him.

I realize that the kind of cheating I'm doing is far worse than what he did, but he DID cheat. Twice if you count the time he went to his brother's bachelor party weekend 8 months after the first cheating incident and, due to influence of alchohol and peer pressure, got several 45 minute lap dances with touching involved. He told me about the touching almost a year after it happened. Again, no excuse for what I'm doing but he is no innocent.

*The pity is this is just a list of many things, that you're using to justify your A.*


----------



## Shaggy

Candy, a lap dance may be crossing boundaries, but it isn't cheating. It is betraying a trust, but not full on cheating. I know you would prefer it to be cheating so as to make you feel better about your having repeated romps with the OM.

You having full naked sex like you have with the OM that's cheating.


----------



## candy12

Shaggy said:


> Candy, a lap dance may be crossing boundaries, but it isn't cheating. It is betraying a trust, but not full on cheating. I know you would prefer it to be cheating so as to make you feel better about your having repeated romps with the OM.
> 
> You having full naked sex like you have with the OM that's cheating.


Would you still not think it was cheating if it wasn't paid for?


----------



## Shaggy

Your husband has serious issues that you are not only not helping deal with , but you have likely validated a lot of his fears by cheating on him.

Thing is I frankly do not believe you are remorseful or that you intend to stop cheating and you are going to go right on betraying your husbands love by giving yourself emotionally and physically to the OM.

I also suspect that like most cheaters you are painting an overly extreme vision of your husband as a way of justifying your choice to cheat and to garner sympathy.

And it's deeply troubling to me to be conversing with a cheater, because frankly cheating is about the worse thing you can to do your spouse short of murdering them. It's a scar that will stick with them for the rest of their life and its something they have done nothing to earn. Their only mistake was to trust the cheater with their love and their heart. For that they get deep permanent emotional scars and the cheater gets happy fun sex. 

The fact that you paint yourself the victim here is very troubling and disturbing. You are not the victim in any way. Your husband is a true victim, he just doesn't know it.

Your not the victim, but you are married to someone you don't believe is worthy of your affection. That comes through in your posts. Ironically your OM seems to be worthy of your affection and he's a guy who dates married women, while your husband if loyal and faithful and unworthy.

My advice: not only divorce your husband , but pay out of your own pocket for the counseling he is going to need from your betrayal.

My other advice: I would like you to remember down the road that your OM is the kind of scum that would date a married woman, and that if they'll cheat with you they'll cheat on you, and when that happens to you you'll get a small taste of your husbands experience with you. 

You alone created this situation by choosing to cheat and lie. You alone can begin to unravel it by stopping cheating and lying. You wont be able to fix it, but you can stop making it worse by cheating over and over.

Advice: never have sex with the OM again. You'll find once you seriously cut him off from sex that he won't be sticking around too long, do that should help you end the affair.


----------



## Shaggy

candy12 said:


> Would you still not think it was cheating if it wasn't paid for?


Yes because he not only didn't have actual sex with her, but most importantly he didn't have a relationship of any kind with her. He was just another drunk idiot to her.


----------



## turnera

Anything you hide from your spouse is cheating.


----------



## candy12

Shaggy said:


> Your husband has serious issues that you are not only not helping deal with , but you have likely validated a lot of his fears by cheating on him.
> 
> Thing is I frankly do not believe you are remorseful or that you intend to stop cheating and you are going to go right on betraying your husbands love by giving yourself emotionally and physically to the OM.
> 
> I also suspect that like most cheaters you are painting an overly extreme vision of your husband as a way of justifying your choice to cheat and to garner sympathy.
> 
> And it's deeply troubling to me to be conversing with a cheater, because frankly cheating is about the worse thing you can to do your spouse short of murdering them. It's a scar that will stick with them for the rest of their life and its something they have done nothing to earn. Their only mistake was to trust the cheater with their love and their heart. For that they get deep permanent emotional scars and the cheater gets happy fun sex.
> 
> The fact that you paint yourself the victim here is very troubling and disturbing. You are not the victim in any way. Your husband is a true victim, he just doesn't know it.
> 
> Your not the victim, but you are married to someone you don't believe is worthy of your affection. That comes through in your posts. Ironically your OM seems to be worthy of your affection and he's a guy who dates married women, while your husband if loyal and faithful and unworthy.
> 
> My advice: not only divorce your husband , but pay out of your own pocket for the counseling he is going to need from your betrayal.
> 
> My other advice: I would like you to remember down the road that your OM is the kind of scum that would date a married woman, and that if they'll cheat with you they'll cheat on you, and when that happens to you you'll get a small taste of your husbands experience with you.
> 
> You alone created this situation by choosing to cheat and lie. You alone can begin to unravel it by stopping cheating and lying. You wont be able to fix it, but you can stop making it worse by cheating over and over.
> 
> Advice: never have sex with the OM again. You'll find once you seriously cut him off from sex that he won't be sticking around too long, do that should help you end the affair.


Point taken, I'm just trying to alleviate the emotional torment I'm going through right now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

You know how to alleviate the torment?

Do the right thing, no matter how it affects YOU.


----------



## Mtts

I didnt bother reading through anything other than the first page.

Honesty, not even once..


----------



## Shaggy

candy12 said:


> Point taken, I'm just trying to alleviate the emotional torment I'm going through right now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I get that.

But if you really wanted to start the path to improvement you'd dump the OM without ever having sex with him again.

How about this idea, go out and buy the best hottest hooker you can find for your husband. The very best, and give her to him the sane number of times+1 that you've had sex with the OM.

Imagine for a minute how you would feel when after presenting her to him, and making sure he knows its for real, you walk out of the house knowing that he is going to have mind blowing sex with her, that your husband who is yours by his choice is going to be having the very very best sex in his life and you are not invited.

How would you feel at the moment? How would you feel when you next see him and the grin he'd have?


----------



## Shaggy

Btw candie I'm not just trying to take shots at you. I'm trying to wake you up to actually taking responsibility and to take action to improve what you are doing to your husband.

Frankly, I don't care about the OM. He's pond scum for being part of the affair.

I do care about your husband, he's got a problem yes, but that shouldn't get him cheated on.

I do want you to come to real grips with what you are doing to him. You say you know it's wrong, yet you do it again and again, that means you are either an uncaring psychopath or you honestly haven't allowed yourself to empathize with the hurt you are causing. Nether of us thinks you are a psychopath so that leaves the idea that you continue to do it because you won't let yourself really understand the nasty enormity of choosing to cheat.

You could have divorced him and been with the OM, yet you chose not to, why?


----------



## candy12

Hello all, just wanted to provide an update on the situation. I have ended all non-professional contact with the OM. I came clean and told him the entire truth. He still wants a future with me, and if down the road I find myself divorced, being with him will be an option but right now I am going to work things out with my husband without the OM being involved in my personal life.


----------



## southern wife

I hope you're not saying that just so this board will STFU and get out of your face.


----------



## candy12

southern wife said:


> I hope you're not saying that just so this board will STFU and get out of your face.


lol, believe me, it has crossed my mind to do that! But no that is not the case. And even though I have ended things with the OM, there's no telling how well my willpower will hold up but right now I need to believe I can do this. Posting it here kind of cements it in my brain as a reality.


----------



## anchorwatch

Tell your husband what has occurred. Let him help you with this. It can be the first step to work on the marriage together.


----------



## Faithful Wife

"Needing to believe you can do this" doesn't help you actually do it in the least.


----------



## A Bit Much

Do or do not. There is no try.


----------



## PreRaphaelite

candy12 said:


> Hello all, just wanted to provide an update on the situation. I have ended all non-professional contact with the OM. I came clean and told him the entire truth. He still wants a future with me, and if down the road I find myself divorced, being with him will be an option but right now I am going to work things out with my husband without the OM being involved in my personal life.


So, have you told your husband about your affair or not?


----------



## candy12

PreRaphaelite said:


> So, have you told your husband about your affair or not?


First thing husband would do is run to his primary care doc and get his med dosage increased as a way to deal with the issue. This would not be helping either of us.


----------



## Almostrecovered

keeping OM as a back up is NOT conducive to "working it out" at all


----------



## Shaggy

So now you need the plan of what you will do when you want another session with the OM. What you will do in a shirt while when the OM suggests getting coffee and talking (have sex) because he misses you and is worried about you (aka he wants to get laid)

And you need to get into MC and come clean to your husband about your affair.


----------



## Decorum

candy12 said:


> I came clean and told him the entire truth. He still wants a future with me ...



Just to be clear, you "came clean with the OM and told him the "entire truth" right?

I take it your husband still has no idea, is that true?

Do you plan on telling your husband? (This my provide him some motivation)

If I have any of this wrong I apologize, please let me know. Thx.


----------



## Decorum

Ok I just saw the posts and answers that came before I got mine posted.

There is a right way to go about this that burns the proper bridges and installs the proper supports.

You many not be aware of these, but fyi you are doing it wrong.

Maybe find an IC who understands infidelity and get some help, otherwise you are leaving some stumbling blocks lying around for your marriage to fail.


----------



## candy12

Decorum said:


> Ok I just saw the posts and answers that came before I got mine posted.
> 
> There is a right way to go about this that burns the proper bridges and installs the proper supports.
> 
> You many not be aware of these, but fyi you are doing it wrong.
> 
> Maybe find an IC who understands infidelity and get some help, otherwise you are leaving some stumbling blocks lying around for your marriage to fail.


Ok I know what an MC is, what is an IC?


----------



## anchorwatch

*Re: Re: married and met another man*



candy12 said:


> First thing husband would do is run to his primary care doc and get his med dosage increased as a way to deal with the issue. This would not be helping either of us.


More excuses you're making for yourself, not your H.


----------



## Faithful Wife

IC = individual counseling.

Candy, just be prepared to keep coming back with "I failed, I tried to break it off but I couldn't". Then maybe after a few times you will understand that there is a pattern to this cycle, and you can learn to get out of it. But not until you see the pattern yourself.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> *Originally Posted by Decorum *Ok I just saw the posts and answers that came before I got mine posted.
> 
> There is a right way to go about this that burns the proper bridges and installs the proper supports.
> 
> You many not be aware of these, but fyi you are doing it wrong.
> 
> Maybe find an IC who understands infidelity and get some help, otherwise you are leaving some stumbling blocks lying around for your marriage to fail.
> *
> By Candy*Ok I know what an MC is, what is an IC?



I agree with Decorum

IC = Individual counselor


You are attracted to weak men 
*That would seem to indicate that you need to work on you*.
So far you have agreed that your husband is weak, your OM is weak, and your MC is a poor counselor. You would do yourself a favor if you spent the time you do on those three people and use that time to work on you. You cannot control anyone but you and right now you are not doing a very good job of that

*You do not want to keep damaging yourself because you may get to where no one will want you except HUGE losers *


----------



## Wazza

What is going in in your brain? D you still have dreams of the OM but you recognise the need to not yield to them? You recognise the need to control yourself?


----------



## See_Listen_Love

Candy, I think you need to inform your H about the situation. Then tell him why this all happened, why you changed, what you want out of life.

If he cannot change, which is very necessary in my opinion, you have to leave him, otherwise you both will be unhappy for the rest of your lives.

It gives him a chance to think about it, and act to his own judgement.


----------



## candy12

I am in the process of trying to find a new IC. It's not as easy as I thought.



> What is going in in your brain?


sadness, withdrawal, longing for OM, guilt, crying every day... wanting to go back to OM to ease the pain but telling myself it will pass and I need to control myself because if I put it off any longer it will only be worse.


----------



## Wazza

candy12 said:


> I am in the process of trying to find a new IC. It's not as easy as I thought.
> 
> 
> 
> sadness, withdrawal, longing for OM, guilt, crying every day... wanting to go back to OM to ease the pain but telling myself it will pass and I need to control myself because if I put it off any longer it will only be worse.


It may not pass, and it may reassert more strongly in future. That is why we advise telling your husband. Someone needs to hold you accountable if / when you are tempted.


----------



## candy12

Ok but right now my husband can't even handle his own personal issues, let alone taking this on as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Wazza

candy12 said:


> Ok but right now my husband can't even handle his own personal issues, let alone taking this on as well.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well find someone else to talk to. Much higher risk of relapse if you go it alone. 

Having said that, do you really think you can recreate an intimate bond with your husband while lying to him about something so fundamental?


----------



## See_Listen_Love

candy12 said:


> Ok but right now my husband can't even handle his own personal issues, let alone taking this on as well.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Maybe you need to start talking to him about his drinking. I think he needs to quit that at all. Then he can work on his issues.

It is important he sees that relation. So you can't force him, he has first to see the drinking as a possible problem. If he does you can take the next step.


----------



## ArmyofJuan

candy12 said:


> Hello all, just wanted to provide an update on the situation. I have ended all non-professional contact with the OM. I came clean and told him the entire truth. * He still wants a future with me, and if down the road I find myself divorced, being with him will be an option *but right now I am going to work things out with my husband without the OM being involved in my personal life.



Just an FYI:

_Ten percent of extramarital affairs last one day, 10 percent last more than one day but less than a month, 50 percent last more than a month but less than a year, but 40 percent last two or more years. Few extramarital affairs last more than four years. 

A lesser known fact is that those who divorce rarely marry the person with whom they are having the affair. For example, Dr. Jan Halper’s study of successful men (executives, entrepreneurs, professionals) found that very few men who have affairs divorce their wife and marry their lovers. Only 3 percent of the 4,100 successful men surveyed eventually married their lovers.

Frank Pittman has found that the divorce rate among those who married their lovers was 75 percent. The reasons for the high divorce rate include: intervention of reality, guilt, expectations, a general distrust of marriage, and a distrust of the affairee._

Infidelity Statistics, Cheating Spouse Statistics - WomanSavers


----------



## Shaggy

candy12 said:


> Ok but right now my husband can't even handle his own personal issues, let alone taking this on as well.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Just maybe dealing with the hard reality of an unfaithful wife might put his imagined issues with past stuff on the back burner.


----------



## Entropy3000

If you are not completely NC with this guy the affair is not over. That means meeting with him professionally.


----------



## JustGrinding

candy12 said:


> Ok but right now my husband can't even handle his own personal issues, let alone taking this on as well.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You need to stop making excuses. You're treating your husband as if he's a pet or a houseplant. The most basic level of respect you can show another human being is simply to TELL THEM THE TRUTH in your interactions with them.

The quoted statement above reveals an unbelieveable arrogance on your part. If your hubby wants to destroy himself, that's his decision. Right now, the focus is on your actions and the same advice applies whether dealing with your boyfriend or your husband: STOP BEING A LIAR!

(Disclaimer: this may require you to accept responsible for your own actions and decisions and may force you to be accountable for the same.)


----------



## Jellybeans

candy12 said:


> There is the possibliity that if I paint myself in a bad-enough light to OM, he may never want to see me again anyway.





warlock07 said:


> Come on!! He is having an affair with a married woman. You will have to set the bar pretty low


:rofl: Comic gold


----------



## Jellybeans

Why can't we just rename this/these threads _"I'm having an affair and want to justify it"_


----------



## Juicer

I can understand not wanting to tell your husband if he would maybe have a major change in a few weeks. But that is not the case. 

And you might wonder, "Well, what would be an example of that?"

Well, when my XW told me, I was cycling off steroids. My mood would completely change in around 2-3 weeks. But she told me when I was cycling, so who knows how I would have reacted if I hadn't been on them. 


Your problem is, your husband isn't going to get better with time, or have a major change. 
He is only going to get worse. And hiding this, and thinking and looking and trying to find the right time to tell him, is a HORRIBLE idea. There is no good time to tell them about the affair, because there is no good reason to have one!
But hiding it like this, keeping the OM on the back burner for yourself, is 1000x worse!!!

You are trying to hide this big sweet secret, like something you can hide under your bed. 
I'll tell you right now, that doesn't work. I tried doing it with my temper and rage. And it is so bad now, it no longer hides in the shadows, because I can't keep it there anymore. It is too big to hide. 

Your affair will grow. You may see your friends unexpectedly, or your friends may already know about it. 
It will never stay hidden forever. Not today. Back 200 years ago before internet, and phones, and photography, yes. It may have stayed hidden. But today, we have cell phones, we have cameras, we have key loggers for computers, we have so many things that trying to keep a secret with someone today is impossible. The only safe secret is the one that only you know about. 


So, you think this is bad? You worry how your husband will react when you tell him?

How much worse will it be when he finds out from a friend you bad mouthed, and she says you've been cheating on him, and she gives him some half-truths and gritty details, but enough for him to know it is true? How much worse will it be when you come home and he has been punching holes in the wall all day?

Listen, hiding this doesn't work. 

You don't like your husband. 
Fine. 

You don't have a right to string him along and pay for your bills while you put the OM on the back burner.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> By ArmyofJuan
> Only 3 percent of the 4,100 successful men surveyed eventually married their lovers.


*It is amazing how many cheaters think that they are in the 3%!!!![*]


----------



## ReformedHubby

I have seen the numbers that say only 3 percent of affair couples stay together. I don't want to turn this into a woman vs man debate but I am willing to bet that the men break it off more often than the woman.

Speaking from experience I once was in the same spot. I thought that everything about one particular woman was perfect and that my spouse was hopelessly flawed. I even began to treat my wife poorly because she wasn't like the OW. We were "star crossed lovers" that were meant to be. Once it went physical and I got to know the OW better I realized I didn't feel the same about her, she wasn't at all who I fantasized in my mind to be. She couldn't compare to my wife at all. She was a just a plain old regular person. I ended up just telling my wife everything about her and recommitting myself to my marriage. 

I only bought this up because I think a lot of people assume that their affair partner is just as emotionally invested as they are. Heck, I thought I was too but reality hit me like a ton of bricks. Do yourself a favor, break it off.


----------



## Jellybeans

ReformedHubby said:


> Once it went physical and I got to know the OW better I realized I didn't feel the same about her, *she wasn't at all who I fantasized in my mind *to be.


:iagree:

Yeah that's the thing about fantasy... it's not real.


----------



## candy12

ArmyofJuan said:


> Just an FYI:
> 
> A lesser known fact is that those who divorce rarely marry the person with whom they are having the affair. For example, Dr. Jan Halper’s study of successful men (executives, entrepreneurs, professionals) found that very few men who have affairs divorce their wife and marry their lovers. Only 3 percent of the 4,100 successful men surveyed eventually married their lovers.


It doesn't surprise me that men don't marry their affair partner. From what I've read, men are more likely to enter affairs for sexual reasons. Men tend to not confuse sex and love like women do. I would also like to know how many of those who did not marry their lover did not because the woman was also married and therefore not available.



> Frank Pittman has found that the divorce rate among those who married their lovers was 75 percent. The reasons for the high divorce rate include: intervention of reality, guilt, expectations, a general distrust of marriage, and a distrust of the affairee.[/I]


Divorce statistics never made sense to me. Supposedly divorce rates are around 50%, yet in my own circle of family, friends and co-workers it is much less than 10%, maybe more like 5%. I only know one person who divorced a spouse due to an affair. My sister in law's very good friend left her husband for another man 5 years ago, and is still married, 2 kids, and couldn't be happier. Not saying that's the norm but that's kind of why it's hard for me to value these kinds of statistics. I appreciate the info though, it's of course something to consider.


----------



## candy12

Juicer said:


> You don't have a right to string him along and pay for your bills while you put the OM on the back burner.


you are right.


----------



## Horizon

samyeagar said:


> I think you should most definately not tell your husband about this other man and keep seeing him. If you haven't been physical with him, you should do so ASAP, and see how long you can keep it away from your husband because he doesn't need to know, and it will make everything that much more exciting


Ahhhh sweet sarcasm - pain manifests in a myriad of ways.


----------



## Horizon

Paradise said:


> Lies, Lies, and more Lies...And...An excuse for every lie trying to rationalize it.
> 
> This is VERY simple! Since you cannot make up your mind on what to do here tell your husband and the OM the entire truth and at least allow them the chance to make up their minds on what they want their lives to look like.
> 
> No offense, but people like you (based on what you have stated) are my worst nightmare because there is no truth. Not saying your hubby is an angel because he obviously is not but this EA is all on you. I just cannot stand the rationalization of it all.


The "FOG" envelops the best of them.


----------



## SkyHigh

Hate to say it like this....but it has to be done.

Candy, women like you make me *physically ill.*


----------



## See_Listen_Love

No need to say that.

Candy, I like it that you dare to come here and talk about it. Bravo for that.

Many posters here are hurt and forget that i.m.h.o. they themselves could have been the WS just as easily if circumstances were different.

There are saints living among us, but it are not many.


----------



## SkyHigh

See_Listen_Love said:


> No need to say that.


Sure there is. She is intentionally toying with two human beings for her own egotistical gratification. We have a phrase for that where I come from....."manipulative b*tch".

Even if I never got burned by a female on any occasion, it's plain to see. 



See_Listen_Love said:


> Many posters here are hurt and forget that i.m.h.o. they themselves could have been the WS just as easily if circumstances were different.


Really? Sorry, don't buy that...see, lots of us have this thing called a "moral compass". You know, that thing that keeps us from becoming WAW/WAH's in the first place.


----------



## Shaggy

See_Listen_Love said:


> No need to say that.
> 
> Candy, I like it that you dare to come here and talk about it. Bravo for that.
> 
> Many posters here are hurt and forget that i.m.h.o. they themselves could have been the WS just as easily if circumstances were different.
> 
> There are saints living among us, but it are not many.


Gotta call you on this one.

It doesn't take being a saint to not be the WS. All it takes is choosing not to go there. No miracle or heavenly intervention required. Just choice.

It's in fact an easy choice to make. The problem is that WS choose not to walk away. They choose to betray their spouse and to get some from another person.


----------



## Baseballmom6

I agree with Shaggy. I have had many opportunities to have an affair. Even when my exH and I were having problems my morals and general respect for my spouse would not allow me to even consider it for more than 30 seconds. I wish my exH would have felt the same but he didn't You need to be truthful it will only 
get worse with time.


----------



## SkyHigh

When relationships start going south, there are two types of people.

Type As will put the work into the relationship, taking into account vows, children, past experience with spouse/lover, current issues, et cetera.

Type Bs will just have an affair, and then justify it. No surprise that a majority of Type Bs are grown children.


----------



## candy12

SkyHigh, I sure hope you don't live in a glass house. You throw around terms like "moral compass" and paint people into "good" and "evil" categories just to feel better about yourself. Do good moral people judge and namecall a person they don't even know who is trying to get help?

Maybe they do, I wouldn't know because I try not to categorize people.


----------



## Shaggy

Candy seeking and getting help is good.

However it seems that WS like to clutter the discussion of cheating with tremendous amounts of irrelevant details , discussions, noise. A lot of people call that justification.

The reality is that cheating is plain and simply a wrong choice. There isn't a loophole where you get to choose to cheat and its just fine to do so.

Once cheating being wrong is accepted, then the question remaining is : so why choose it?

I'd like to believe that give the choice between right and wrong, people will choose right every time.

Yes, WS are deliberately choosing wrong over right.

They aren't pure evil like a ad movie villain, but they are frankly making choices which are deeply hurtful to people and are breaking vows they made.


----------



## Jellybeans

Candy, it would be wise to end all contact with OM if you want to give a real shot at your marriage. The fact is, your marriage can't be worked on/restored unless OM is completely out of your life.

It's like your husband staying in touch with his affair partner while trying to work things out with you. You already know that doesn't work.

Wish you luck.


----------



## SkyHigh

candy12 said:


> SkyHigh, I sure hope you don't live in a glass house. You throw around terms like "moral compass" and paint people into "good" and "evil" categories just to feel better about yourself. Do good moral people judge and namecall a person they don't even know who is trying to get help?
> 
> Maybe they do, I wouldn't know because I try not to categorize people.


Oh, I didn't know you were a psychologist. I'll have to tell mine that I don't need her anymore, since you clearly have me all figured out. 

I don't live in a glass house, as a matter of fact. Never did I insinuate that I did. If you're angry about this, you probably are feeling a sense of guilt right now. That's fine, you deserve to feel guilty.

You're trying to get help? You're trying to justify an affair, lying to both the OM AND your spouse, and you want to wax poetic about morals and judgement?

Take a hike, cupcake. If you want my sympathy, you can find it in the dictionary between "sh!t" and "syphilis". 

Let's go with the clear cut facts.

- You hid an affair from your husband. How far this affair goes is anybody's guess. You're still seeing the guy, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if you were having sex with him as well.
- You compared your currently life to the one you always dreamed of. Tough nuggets, Ginger. Life doesn't work like that.
- You LIED to the OM about the sitch with your husband. Furthermore, you did it because if he found out you were married, he would have pulled the plug. And you want a "future" with this guy? I bet if he knew that you were a two-faced schemer, he'd head for the hills.
- You are basically abandoning your spouse. He's not perfect by any means, especially with the drinking(I should know, I was down that route). To top it off, you're _plotting_ a physical separation instead of getting the cojones to tell your husband what's going on.

And you want to step up to *ME?!* Bring it on, toots. I don't pull punches with liars ever since I split with one. 

You are a selfish, amoral child who only cares about herself. Let's not split hairs. 

Your narcissism is clearly showing, just by your post to me, by going after my character. Remember, I didn't post a novella about my willingness to cheat on my spouse. *YOU DID*.

I may not be perfect, but I sure as hell didn't sneak behind my wife's back when things got rough. But then again, that's the problem with having a moral compass...you're always stuck by that boring duty to do the right thing.


----------



## Shaggy

candy12 said:


> SkyHigh, I sure hope you don't live in a glass house. You throw around terms like "moral compass" and paint people into "good" and "evil" categories just to feel better about yourself. Do good moral people judge and namecall a person they don't even know who is trying to get help?
> 
> Maybe they do, I wouldn't know because I try not to categorize people.


It's not wrong to look at something someone is doing that is morally wrong and to call it out as wrong.

There are things that are black and white - right and wrong - stealing, betrayal, and cheating are things that are simply wrong without grey areas.

Calling them out as wrong is not a judgement on a person as a whole, but it is calling out particular choices or actions as being wrong.

There is a failing in the moral compass of a person who chooses to cheat. Their choice and actions show that. It doesn't mean they are without good in them, but there is something inside them that didn't stop them from crossing a line that should never have been approached.

I think that's part of a former cheater truly having remorse. The remorse they feel helps rebuild that part inside them that will never permit them to cross that line again.

The former cheater who doesn't go to that step of self discovery and growth improvement remains a potential cheater again den the road because they didn't truly change, they just stopped having the current affair.


----------



## candy12

Shaggy said:


> Candy seeking and getting help is good.
> 
> However it seems that WS like to clutter the discussion of cheating with tremendous amounts of irrelevant details , discussions, noise. A lot of people call that justification.
> 
> The reality is that cheating is plain and simply a wrong choice. There isn't a loophole where you get to choose to cheat and its just fine to do so.
> 
> Once cheating being wrong is accepted, then the question remaining is : so why choose it?
> 
> I'd like to believe that give the choice between right and wrong, people will choose right every time.
> 
> Yes, WS are deliberately choosing wrong over right.
> 
> They aren't pure evil like a ad movie villain, but they are frankly making choices which are deeply hurtful to people and are breaking vows they made.


I've realized this, and the fog took over. I didn't know that it was a fog until it was spelled out for me here. It's like telling an alcoholic to just make the right choice. That's what it feels like.


----------



## A Bit Much

candy12 said:


> I've realized this, and the fog took over. I didn't know that it was a fog until it was spelled out for me here. It's like telling an alcoholic to just make the right choice. That's what it feels like.


The fog isn't something that you're a victim of. It's a state of mind you choose to stay in to justify your actions. Actions that you know are completely wrong and self serving.

You needed US to spell it out? I doubt that.


----------



## SkyHigh

What you did and continue to do was clearly deliberate. Nobody put a gun to your head to do this.

Any attempt to convince otherwise is another falsehood and quickly takes what little credibility you have left and pisses all over it.

By all means, feel free to lash out because you're being told to face the truth of your horrid lack of judgement and selfish choices. It's entertaining to see you do so.


----------



## Shaggy

candy12 said:


> I've realized this, and the fog took over. I didn't know that it was a fog until it was spelled out for me here. It's like telling an alcoholic to just make the right choice. That's what it feels like.


Yes and no.

It actually does come down even for alcoholic to choose not to drink. There isn't a pill that cures either problem, only conscious choice.

Both are in recovery when they realize the only choice that works at all is to say no. The successful recoveries are when you choose to say that forever.


----------



## Wazza

Candy, have you made any progress on cleaning things up?


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix

Hello Candy,

It’s taken guts to come here and I hope my words don’t offend too much.



> I've realized this, and the fog took over. I didn't know that it was a fog until it was spelled out for me here. It's like telling an alcoholic to just make the right choice. That's what it feels like.


If you have a strong moral grounding and understand the true meaning of words like, marriage, husband, wife, promise, vows, friendship, loyalty etc. etc. *Than entering the “FOG” is act of FREE WILL!* To say the “FOG” is like a drug and those that enter it have no free will, have become very disillusioned with their current situation and is a pathetic excuse at not taking responsibility of their situation, and is without a strong moral upbringing in the first place. 

--------------------------------------
_Start: “Play this scenario out with me”.

Your husband begins to MAN-UP and takes responsibility for his problem(s) and over time, weeks, months or even god forbid years you begin to see this change in him. You begin to realise your husband is coming back to you, like he was and you begin to fall in love with him again. You decide you want to save your marriage. 

Meanwhile the OM is still waiting for you and hoping your husband fails to MAN-UP, so that he and you can start a new life together. You tell the OM it’s over between you as you want to save your marriage. The OM takes this rejection badly and starts showing you his true colours. You end the affair because you’re scared of the OM now, but the OM wants his revenge so he contacts your husband and informs him about your affair with him over the weeks, months, or years. Your husband now realises that the IC/MC that you have both started is nothing more than a smoke screen and that you have been pretending to save your marriage, while stilling continuing the affair. 

The OM hates you now and you hate him for destroying your marriage, you’ve played with his feelings and now your husband knows the truth as well, you played him as well. Your husband demands the truth from you, and starts asking you questions, with more questions. He starts seeing images of you and the OM in his mind having sex and other doing things you would never do with your husband. Worse, he starts playing movies in his mind of the same thing. 

You can stand in front of him answering all his questions but he will see the images and movies while he’s wide awake and every single word that comes from your mouth be deafened out. He’ll get strong emotions of pure rage and slash out at anything in front him. He’ll scream, shout, swear, and call you every vile word he can think of.

Your marriage is over, you have lost your husband, and you have lost your OM. Your family and friends will condemn you for your selfish behaviour. You are now truly alone! 

Many months, years pass by and you start dating again, you meet me (you lucking thing), we talk, we eat, we talk some more and a real connection starts forming between us. I like you, you like me and we start dating. One evening during a dinner date, I tell you I have strong moral values and cannot stand cheaters. You remain silent and then tell me about your past, I listen, and I say nothing. I’m shocked at you beyond words; I’m dating a woman that’s prefect for me, expect with no moral values.

*Q. In every way you are prefect for me and me for you. But, after hearing about your past, what do you think I’m going to do next?* 

End: “Play this scenario out with me”._
-------------------------------------

Candy, I have read your posts a number of times and your words and sentences have strong conviction in them. If you truly want to save your marriage then END THE AFFAIR FIRST! And work on your marriage. *Two’s company and Three’s a crowd.*

Regards, FTP 



----------



## Mr Blunt

> Originally Posted by Juicer
> You don't have a right to string him along and pay for your bills while you put the OM on the back burner.
> 
> 
> Quote of Candy*
> you are right.[/*


*Just agreeing with some posters and not taking any strong positive actions to do the right thing is dragging you down more each day-week-month.*

If you need help then get the right help to get you going in the right direction. You do not have to remain in the destructive situation that you are in. You can start to get better but it will take some courage, determination, and perseverance. To not do theses things will be disastrous for your emotional health.

*You need to quit looking to men and others to get you better. You need to start with you first*; nobody else can do your part for you. You have almost 200 posts on your thread so you have got about all the points of view you need.

You can get better but time is running out on you.


----------



## EleGirl

candy12 said:


> It doesn't surprise me that men don't marry their affair partner. From what I've read, men are more likely to enter affairs for sexual reasons. Men tend to not confuse sex and love like women do. I would also like to know how many of those who did not marry their lover did not because the woman was also married and therefore not available.
> 
> 
> 
> Divorce statistics never made sense to me. Supposedly divorce rates are around 50%, yet in my own circle of family, friends and co-workers it is much less than 10%, maybe more like 5%. I only know one person who divorced a spouse due to an affair. My sister in law's very good friend left her husband for another man 5 years ago, and is still married, 2 kids, and couldn't be happier. Not saying that's the norm but that's kind of why it's hard for me to value these kinds of statistics. I appreciate the info though, it's of course something to consider.


Actually the divorce rate is not around 50%. That's a myth. It comes from a news article in the 1980's in which someone counted all the marriages and dirvorces in a county for one year. There were half as many divorces as marriages. The number is meaningless.

The divorce rate is closer to 30%. However it's not 30% across the board. It's higher for some demograpics and lower for others.

For example it higher for women who married under 25 and men who married under 30. It's about 70% for second marriages and even higher for 3rd marriages. The less education a person has the the higher the divorce rate. The less income a person has, the higher the divorce rate.

So for a woman, go for a highly educated, well to do man over 30 who has never been married before. And make sure you have the same stats.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

SkyHigh said:


> Oh, I didn't know you were a psychologist. I'll have to tell mine that I don't need her anymore, since you clearly have me all figured out.
> 
> I don't live in a glass house, as a matter of fact. Never did I insinuate that I did. If you're angry about this, you probably are feeling a sense of guilt right now. That's fine, you deserve to feel guilty.
> 
> You're trying to get help? You're trying to justify an affair, lying to both the OM AND your spouse, and you want to wax poetic about morals and judgement?
> 
> Take a hike, cupcake. If you want my sympathy, you can find it in the dictionary between "sh!t" and "syphilis".
> 
> Let's go with the clear cut facts.
> 
> - You hid an affair from your husband. How far this affair goes is anybody's guess. You're still seeing the guy, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if you were having sex with him as well.
> - You compared your currently life to the one you always dreamed of. Tough nuggets, Ginger. Life doesn't work like that.
> - You LIED to the OM about the sitch with your husband. Furthermore, you did it because if he found out you were married, he would have pulled the plug. And you want a "future" with this guy? I bet if he knew that you were a two-faced schemer, he'd head for the hills.
> - You are basically abandoning your spouse. He's not perfect by any means, especially with the drinking(I should know, I was down that route). To top it off, you're _plotting_ a physical separation instead of getting the cojones to tell your husband what's going on.
> 
> And you want to step up to *ME?!* Bring it on, toots. I don't pull punches with liars ever since I split with one.
> 
> You are a selfish, amoral child who only cares about herself. Let's not split hairs.
> 
> Your narcissism is clearly showing, just by your post to me, by going after my character. Remember, I didn't post a novella about my willingness to cheat on my spouse. *YOU DID*.
> 
> I may not be perfect, but I sure as hell didn't sneak behind my wife's back when things got rough. But then again, that's the problem with having a moral compass...you're always stuck by that boring duty to do the right thing.


You know, there is a saying that on the internet it takes only so long in a series of postings before the posters start wanting to kill eachother.

This is often demonstrated on the youtube comments, or the threads on sites with a lot of youth commenting.

Not on these forums, happily, but you really make an effort.

Please stop that, we have to be respectful in our difference of opinions.


----------



## SkyHigh

See_Listen_Love said:


> You know, there is a saying that on the internet it takes only so long in a series of postings before the posters start wanting to kill eachother.
> 
> This is often demonstrated on the youtube comments, or the threads on sites with a lot of youth commenting.
> 
> Not on these forums, happily, but you really make an effort.
> 
> Please stop that, we have to be respectful in our difference of opinions.


Hey, Lancelot, your horse is that way. Right by the exit. ---->

First of all, I don't and never will appreciate spot psychoanalysis by somebody who can't take the truth. 

Second of all, I can't STAND White Knights. Stop acting like Candy is a damsel in distress. She created this mess herself and looked to justify it. She deserves whatever harsh words come her way.

In case you've been living under a rock, this isn't a "Let us help you justify cheating on your spouse" forum.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

SkyHigh said:


> Hey, Lancelot, your horse is that way. Right by the exit. ---->
> 
> First of all, I don't and never will appreciate spot psychoanalysis by somebody who can't take the truth.
> 
> Second of all, I can't STAND White Knights. Stop acting like Candy is a damsel in distress. She created this mess herself and looked to justify it. She deserves whatever harsh words come her way.
> 
> In case you've been living under a rock, this isn't a "Let us help you justify cheating on your spouse" forum.


To me,it feels like you're a bit too fresh from the pain you suffered at the hands of your ex to be able to post in this thread with a level head.It would be a shame to see you get banned when you're clearly still hurting and need support.Maybe step away from this one for a bit? I'm not trying to be the thought police or anything like that,just saying it's probably healthier to stay away from these kinds of threads til you're a bit further removed from what you went through.


----------



## SkyHigh

Bah. You're right, Scarlet. I'm hitting the brakes. I had a feeling this one was hitting way too close to home for me.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

SkyHigh said:


> Bah. You're right, Scarlet. I'm hitting the brakes. I had a feeling this one was hitting way too close to home for me.


It's gonna take time but it won't always be this hard and feel so bad.Talk to some of the guys who have been through it and came out on the other side.You'll get tons of inspiration from them.

End of hijack,sorry Candy!


----------



## candy12

Hi all,

As far as my progress goes, I have not had any physical contact with the OM, only over the phone and email and for professional purposes only. At my job we are in the process of trying to hire a new sales person, and once that happens, I will be transferring the account. Yes, the urges to interact with the OM on a personal level are present and with me constantly.

I have found a new IC as was suggested here on TAM. Had an appointment last week which was mostly information gathering. Tonight is my second appointment.



Mr Blunt said:


> You need to quit looking to men and others to get you better. You need to start with you first


I am hoping that counseling helps me with this. It's a problem I've always had (among others). I've always looked to men to validate my self worth.



SkyHigh said:


> Your narcissism is clearly showing, just by your post to me, by going after my character


I went after YOUR character?


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix

Hi Candy,




> *Your post#1*
> About a year ago I met a man through work (he was a client of my company). We instantly connected, and he asked me out to dinner, not realizing I was married. I took him up on his offer, which I never would have done if the timing was different…we hit it off, and at the end of the dinner I shared with him that I am married. He was devastated, and then I then told him that I was separated because I wanted to keep seeing him. In my mind, there was some truth to this since husband and I are living under the same roof but no longer really operating as a couple. I never told him that my husband and I are not living together, I just used the word separated. I have been seeing him since, and it is the most amazing experience of my life. He has all the attributes I could ever want in a man. He is so caring, loving, devoted, mature, supportive, puts my needs first, is down to earth, laid back about all the things that would make my husband boil into a rage. I have never felt so loved by someone in my life. He actually wants to LIVE, to do things, and takes initiative. He has plans and dreams for the future, and we share many of the same interests and goals. When I am with him I feel like I am with a real man who can make decisions and execute them. All of this has only intensified in the year I've known him. He wants to start a life with me.


*FROM POST#1 TO THIS………*



> *Your post#205*:smthumbup:
> As far as my progress goes, I have not had any physical contact with the OM, only over the phone and email and for professional purposes only.
> 
> At my job we are in the process of trying to hire a new sales person, and once that happens, I will be transferring the account. Yes, the urges to interact with the OM on a personal level are present and with me constantly.


The urges will pass just keep focusing on *YOU and YOUR MARRIAGE.*

I think I’ll say it….. *You’ve WOMANED-UP!*

Regards, FTP


----------



## SkyHigh

Good on you, Candy.

I'm sorry I let my emotions get the better of me. Your sitch seemed a lot like what mine degraded into.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> *Originally Posted by Mr Blunt
> 
> You need to quit looking to men and others to get you better. You need to start with you first*
> *By Candy*
> I am hoping that counseling helps me with this. It's a problem I've always had (among others). I've always looked to men to validate my self worth.


Candy, you post was honest and brave. If this counselor does not help you then keep going; get others or anything that will help you with the problem that you so bravely admitted. You taking actions shows that you are not all talk. Congrats Candy!! We are pulling for you.


SkyHigh
You let your true feeling be known and are a great writer. You have also showed that you are a real man; your last post proved that. The bitterness that has been injected into your soul does not have to remain.

*I can trust a man like you so stick around if you like. *
I wil be reading your posts


----------



## See_Listen_Love

candy12 said:


> Yes, the urges to interact with the OM on a personal level are present and with me constantly.


Be aware this is a like a drug addiction, very hard to stay off from it.

Maybe you need a distraction in your life, where you can indulge in your passion for a hobby, helping others, sport or something?


----------



## fragile37

I would say leave your husband and marry the other guy. Or at least move in together. Life is short.


----------



## SkyHigh

candy12 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> As far as my progress goes, I have not had any physical contact with the OM, only over the phone and email and for professional purposes only. At my job we are in the process of trying to hire a new sales person, and once that happens, I will be transferring the account. Yes, the urges to interact with the OM on a personal level are present and with me constantly.


As long as you fight these, you're good. Your counselor will be able to assist you with that.



> I have found a new IC as was suggested here on TAM. Had an appointment last week which was mostly information gathering. Tonight is my second appointment.


Positive steps. Stay this course. 





> I am hoping that counseling helps me with this. It's a problem I've always had (among others). I've always looked to men to validate my self worth.


IC will help you get rid of that severe dependency. I would also suggest MC with your husband at some point.


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix

fragile37 said:


> I would say leave your husband and marry the other guy. Or at least move in together. *Life is short*.


You know I think you have a point; I’m mean, who cares about those silly little words like, oh marriage, husband, wife, promises, vows etc. etc. etc. 

I agree “*Life is short*”, so why not fight for something you believe in, *like Candy!* is doing.

Regards, FTP!


----------



## SkyHigh

fragile37 said:


> I would say leave your husband and marry the other guy. Or at least move in together. Life is short.


No wonder yours is circling the drain.


----------



## creative

Candy, I haven't read all of the comments in this thread for all the 'advice' your getting, cos I was getting bored reading them. I think you need to abandon the whole labels that gets throwing around and go with how YOU feel. It's YOUR body and life, no one else's. How many times the 'righteous' and the 'virtuous' types of people has cause harm to others. Your H is a tosser and you were seeking a connection with a nice, good man. Your being honest to yourself, more so than many people around and give yourself credit for who you are. So what you're chosen to be with another guy? I think it's wrong for you to be with a mean, horrible man. Do I think you should work it out with your husband? - If you want to, ONLY if it makes YOU happy. Remember the opinion of others is none of your business. The opinion on yourself is your business. Your not a 'bad person', you're an honest person to yourself. I don't judge you because I haven't walked in your shoes. Do I care what others say? HELL NO! Why? Because my happiness isn't reliant on others opinion. It doesn't matter what you should have done/said or shouldn't have done/said, you've done it the best way you knew how at the time. I applaud you as you're following your own moral code, not a code that is dictated we should follow by some historic fossils who we never met, and they tell us how we should live our lives...F That!


----------



## ScarletBegonias

creative said:


> Candy, I haven't read all of the comments in this thread for all the 'advice' your getting, cos I was getting bored reading them. I think you need to abandon the whole labels that gets throwing around and go with how YOU feel. It's YOUR body and life, no one else's. How many times the 'righteous' and the 'virtuous' types of people has cause harm to others. Your H is a tosser and you were seeking a connection with a nice, good man. Your being honest to yourself, more so than many people around and give yourself credit for who you are. So what you're chosen to be with another guy? I think it's wrong for you to be with a mean, horrible man. Do I think you should work it out with your husband? - If you want to, ONLY if it makes YOU happy. Remember the opinion of others is none of your business. The opinion on yourself is your business. Your not a 'bad person', you're an honest person to yourself. I don't judge you because I haven't walked in your shoes. Do I care what others say? HELL NO! Why? Because my happiness isn't reliant on others opinion. It doesn't matter what you should have done/said or shouldn't have done/said, you've done it the best way you knew how at the time. I applaud you as you're following your own moral code, not a code that is dictated we should follow by some historic fossils who we never met, and they tell us how we should live our lives...F That!


:wtf:


----------



## Wazza

creative said:


> Candy, I haven't read all of the comments in this thread for all the 'advice' your getting, cos I was getting bored reading them. I think you need to abandon the whole labels that gets throwing around and go with how YOU feel. It's YOUR body and life, no one else's. How many times the 'righteous' and the 'virtuous' types of people has cause harm to others. Your H is a tosser and you were seeking a connection with a nice, good man. Your being honest to yourself, more so than many people around and give yourself credit for who you are. So what you're chosen to be with another guy? I think it's wrong for you to be with a mean, horrible man. Do I think you should work it out with your husband? - If you want to, ONLY if it makes YOU happy. Remember the opinion of others is none of your business. The opinion on yourself is your business. Your not a 'bad person', you're an honest person to yourself. I don't judge you because I haven't walked in your shoes. Do I care what others say? HELL NO! Why? Because my happiness isn't reliant on others opinion. It doesn't matter what you should have done/said or shouldn't have done/said, you've done it the best way you knew how at the time. I applaud you as you're following your own moral code, not a code that is dictated we should follow by some historic fossils who we never met, and they tell us how we should live our lives...F That!


Does if concern you that Candy lies to both husband and other man?

Do you think marriage vows mean anything?


----------



## candy12

Thanks everyone. I'm already feeling like I'm making progress with the new IC with regards to my own personal issues. I appreciate everyone's posts in this thread.


----------



## treyvion

candy12 said:


> It doesn't surprise me that men don't marry their affair partner. From what I've read, men are more likely to enter affairs for sexual reasons. Men tend to not confuse sex and love like women do. I would also like to know how many of those who did not marry their lover did not because the woman was also married and therefore not available.
> 
> 
> 
> Divorce statistics never made sense to me. Supposedly divorce rates are around 50%, yet in my own circle of family, friends and co-workers it is much less than 10%, maybe more like 5%. I only know one person who divorced a spouse due to an affair. My sister in law's very good friend left her husband for another man 5 years ago, and is still married, 2 kids, and couldn't be happier. Not saying that's the norm but that's kind of why it's hard for me to value these kinds of statistics. I appreciate the info though, it's of course something to consider.


Getting married to your affair partner does not fail because the sex was good. It fails because the foundation was formed on a corrupt base. Also the sex was elevated in the mind due to the fact it was an affair, so when it's the primary relationship and not an affair anymore, usually it's not as exciting to be in. In anycase, it's just easier to remember the fact that affairs usually do not work as primary relationships.


----------



## SkyHigh

creative said:


> Candy, I haven't read all of the comments in this thread for all the 'advice' your getting, cos I was getting bored reading them. I think you need to abandon the whole labels that gets throwing around and go with how YOU feel. It's YOUR body and life, no one else's. How many times the 'righteous' and the 'virtuous' types of people has cause harm to others. Your H is a tosser and you were seeking a connection with a nice, good man. Your being honest to yourself, more so than many people around and give yourself credit for who you are. So what you're chosen to be with another guy? I think it's wrong for you to be with a mean, horrible man. Do I think you should work it out with your husband? - If you want to, ONLY if it makes YOU happy. Remember the opinion of others is none of your business. The opinion on yourself is your business. Your not a 'bad person', you're an honest person to yourself. I don't judge you because I haven't walked in your shoes. Do I care what others say? HELL NO! Why? Because my happiness isn't reliant on others opinion. It doesn't matter what you should have done/said or shouldn't have done/said, you've done it the best way you knew how at the time. I applaud you as you're following your own moral code, not a code that is dictated we should follow by some historic fossils who we never met, and they tell us how we should live our lives...F That!


That's just touching.


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix

Hello Creative,

How you? having a nice day? don't answer that, wait for it..... 



creative said:


> Candy, I haven't read all of the comments in this thread for all the 'advice' your getting, cos I was getting bored reading them. I think you need to abandon the whole labels that gets throwing around and go with how YOU feel. It's YOUR body and life, no one else's. How many times the 'righteous' and the 'virtuous' types of people has cause harm to others. Your H is a tosser and you were seeking a connection with a nice, good man. Your being honest to yourself, more so than many people around and give yourself credit for who you are. So what you're chosen to be with another guy? I think it's wrong for you to be with a mean, horrible man. Do I think you should work it out with your husband? - If you want to, ONLY if it makes YOU happy. Remember the opinion of others is none of your business. The opinion on yourself is your business. Your not a 'bad person', you're an honest person to yourself. I don't judge you because I haven't walked in your shoes. *(1) Do I care what others say? HELL NO! * Why? Because my happiness isn't reliant on others opinion. It doesn't matter what you should have done/said or shouldn't have done/said, you've done it the best way you knew how at the time. I applaud you as you're following your own moral code, not a code that is dictated we should follow by some historic fossils who we never met, and they tell us how we should live our lives...F That!


Then why spend so much time and energy using your brain to think up so many words and than post this, if (1) is TRUE!!!. Answer that, no wait, I changed my mind don't bother because of (1).

Not so Creative now are we. You have a nice day now.


----------



## SkyHigh

Simple. Creative didn't feel like they were invited to the Big People's Table, so they had to make some noise to get noticed. 

Last off-topic post I make in this thread.


----------



## creative

Haha, look people, don't get ATTACHED to what I have to say, I wasn't attacking anyone or anyone's ego. Look on it as my opinion as I look on your comments in reply to Candy and to my comments as your opinion. Collectively we all learn from one another.


----------



## Wazza

creative said:


> Haha, look people, don't get ATTACHED to what I have to say, I wasn't attacking anyone or anyone's ego. Look on it as my opinion as I look on your comments in reply to Candy and to my comments as your opinion. Collectively we all learn from one another.


Not attached, Creative. I just thought your opinion ill considered logically, and not helpful given the context. 

I must admit I wondered whether you were trolling.

But if not, please feel free to respond to the questions in my last post to you, and let's have a discussion about your opinion.


----------



## creative

Wazza, thanks for your thoughts & I appreciate your view point. I'm not here to cause a riot bro, nor am I here to say whose right or wrong. It just my opinion, that's all. End of story.


----------



## eyuop

If I'm reading this right, he cheated on you first in the marriage, right?:



> Two years ago, he got so drunk at a new years party that he ended up on the couch with the hostess of the party engaged in a sexual encounter at about 3am when I, and her husband, went upstairs to go to sleep. He told me about it the next day (someone from the party entered the room and they were caught), and was so distraught about what he did both to me, and the woman and her husband, he entered into a cycle of depression and obsessive compulsive disorder, despite the fact that I forgave him. He also started obsessing about some other sexual incidences from his past when he was in high school and college, and repeatedly sharing these obsessions with me despite the fact that I told him I don’t want to hear about them.


 For me, that would be immediate grounds for divorce right there. Your husband obviously didn't respect you enough to remain faithful to you, and that says a LOT to me -- and also gives you some psychological "ammunition" to have an affair, too. You might have said you forgave him, but the bottom line was that he was unfaithful to you. I would have left his sorry a$$ right then and there and then you wouldn't have had to listen to all his sexual exploits from the past. 

Obviously the dishonesty and the whole situation you have been involved in is unhealthy. You admitted that already. However, I'm struggling with the whole counseling thing for you to save your marriage when in my opinion your unfaithful husband has already thrown in the towel.

I suppose you can go ahead and work on your marriage, but I sure wouldn't have. An affair would be a deal breaker for me. You obviously have lost a lot of respect for him and I'm not sure if there is any way to honestly get that back completely. 

I'm not saying run off with this OM, who is also a cheater. I'm just really questioning if your marriage is worth saving after the stuff your husband has pulled. He didn't seem to think his vows to you were important, so why are other forum posters talking to you about your marriage vows? Marriage vows are only "good" if they are upheld by both. That is why it is called a marriage contract. Contracts are only binding if both parties hold up the contract. You can't break a contract that was already broken.


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix

Hi Eyuop,

I agree with your post; but it was Candy that forgave him, they at the party together where it seems booze was free flowing and her husband along with many other problems, booze is one of them. I won't repeat Candy's words of what she thinks of her husband, but I absolutely agree with her Post#1 words. He's a complete “plonker” but she believes in her marriage where her husband seems to have lost the plot, but she still loves him and wants to stand by him.

Read the ending post#1 paragraph, her words.



> I do love my husband and feel it is my duty as a spouse to help him through this and be devoted, not hurt him. At the same time, how can I choose a life that seems to have no future and no direction over one that has everything I could have dreamed of. A physical separation is not financially feasible right now.
> 
> I am seeing a therapist but I still feel lost. I need to stop leading these two men on.


Right now, I think she wants to save him or at least try; but I also strongly believe it should NOT be forever. If he doesn’t take responsibility for his problems and resolves them with Candy’s help, than at least she tried to be the loyal wife who tried to help her “plonker” husband. If he won’t change his ways, than Candy can divorce him knowing that she stood by him and *her marriage failed NOT because of HER but HIM* and no else in the picture.


----------



## candy12

eyuop said:


> If I'm reading this right, he cheated on you first in the marriage, right?:
> 
> 
> 
> For me, that would be immediate grounds for divorce right there. Your husband obviously didn't respect you enough to remain faithful to you, and that says a LOT to me -- and also gives you some psychological "ammunition" to have an affair, too. You might have said you forgave him, but the bottom line was that he was unfaithful to you. I would have left his sorry a$$ right then and there and then you wouldn't have had to listen to all his sexual exploits from the past.
> 
> Obviously the dishonesty and the whole situation you have been involved in is unhealthy. You admitted that already. However, I'm struggling with the whole counseling thing for you to save your marriage when in my opinion your unfaithful husband has already thrown in the towel.
> 
> I suppose you can go ahead and work on your marriage, but I sure wouldn't have. An affair would be a deal breaker for me. You obviously have lost a lot of respect for him and I'm not sure if there is any way to honestly get that back completely.
> 
> I'm not saying run off with this OM, who is also a cheater. I'm just really questioning if your marriage is worth saving after the stuff your husband has pulled. He didn't seem to think his vows to you were important, so why are other forum posters talking to you about your marriage vows? Marriage vows are only "good" if they are upheld by both. That is why it is called a marriage contract. Contracts are only binding if both parties hold up the contract. You can't break a contract that was already broken.


I forgave him because I viewed his indecresion as an issue of his alcoholism rather than infidelity. The counseling I'm going through right now is individual counseling for the purpose of working on my self so I have the tools to work on the marriage. If its a lost cause then I will be emotionally strong enough to leave. I agree with you though that the marriage contract was already broken and if we hadn't been married as long as we've had I very well may have left him at that point.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> The counseling I'm going through right now is individual counseling for the purpose of *working on my self* so I have the tools to work on the marriage.


*Very good start
ACTIONS ACTIONS ACTIONS!!!*


----------



## candy12

So the counseling has been very helpful for me and I've learned a lot about myself. She, like the first counselor I was going to, feels like working on my marriage at this point is not the best course of action because there appears to be nothing to work on. The reasoning for marrying him in the first place was flawed, he doesn't treat me very well, I've been a codependent with regards to his missteps with alcohol and his mental issues, and since he's not going to miraculously change into a different person, there is nothing to save. I should also mention that both counselors I have been to actually say the exact same thing that is specificied in the following post, believe it or not:



creative said:


> I think you need to abandon the whole labels that gets throwing around and go with how YOU feel. It's YOUR body and life, no one else's. How many times the 'righteous' and the 'virtuous' types of people has cause harm to others. Your H is a tosser and you were seeking a connection with a nice, good man. Your being honest to yourself, more so than many people around and give yourself credit for who you are. So what you're chosen to be with another guy? I think it's wrong for you to be with a mean, horrible man. Do I think you should work it out with your husband? - If you want to, ONLY if it makes YOU happy. Remember the opinion of others is none of your business. The opinion on yourself is your business. Your not a 'bad person', you're an honest person to yourself. I don't judge you because I haven't walked in your shoes. Do I care what others say? HELL NO! Why? Because my happiness isn't reliant on others opinion. It doesn't matter what you should have done/said or shouldn't have done/said, you've done it the best way you knew how at the time.


 Both of the counselors I've seen are pyschologists with PhD's, have over 30 years experience in both IC and MC, have written or co-authored books and have appeared on television shows, so it's not like they don't have the knowledge or experience to support their advice. The new IC scoffed at the idea that a relationship with the OM, if I ever do choose to go down that route after a divorce, is doomed. She said that assumption, along with all the labels and judgment, is just black-and-white thinking perpetuated by bitter non-professionals trying to soothe their own insecurities. Now I'm more confused than ever!


----------



## Faithful Wife

Keep paying them, I guess. If it is helping you get to the point where you can finally release the husband you have duped, then great. Whatever happens after that, good luck.


----------



## A Bit Much

All I keep thinking is how you wouldn't be as confused if you didn't involve yourself with the OM in the beginning. That's common sense. You shouldn't need us or a professional to spell it out to you.

You have put the cart before the horse. It doesn't get anymore black and white than that. You have unfinished business with your husband. If you don't have anything to work on then tie it off and leave him. File for divorce and move out. Like I said, this is common sense... you just don't want to accept the reality of your situation and take care of things like you should. 

You don't go start another relationship with a man while in one with another. Cheating is NOT okay. What you're doing, have done is NOT okay. You're cake eating and leaving quite a mess to sort through in your 'confusion'. And I wonder, if you and your husband were both present in your counseling would they spout off the nonsense they have. They hear one side, YOURS. There are TWO people in your marriage, and you have allowed an interloper to wedge between you. The fact you're debating whether your choices have been responsible or not is rather frightening.


----------



## candy12

A Bit Much said:


> And I wonder, if you and your husband were both present in your counseling would they spout off the nonsense they have. They hear one side, YOURS. There are TWO people in your marriage, and you have allowed an interloper to wedge between you.


I wonder this too. In fact, during the sessions I often find I am interjecting to rationalize my husband's behavior and point out the faults of my own so it is as objective as possible. However the counselors view this as me making excuses for him and enabling him which are traits of a codependent.


----------



## A Bit Much

candy12 said:


> I wonder this too. In fact, during the sessions I often find I am interjecting to rationalize my husband's behavior and point out the faults of my own so it is as objective as possible. However the counselors view this as me making excuses for him and enabling him which are traits of a codependent.


Bottom line is he's not there to have his say or even defend himself. There are two sides to every story, you know that.


----------



## Thumper

Ok I haven't read up on this in a while, so let me ask this:

Does he know how unhappy you are, and is still not considering going to marriage counseling together??? Or this is just you going to an IC, and the IC is getting one side of the story?


----------



## candy12

A Bit Much said:


> Bottom line is he's not there to have his say or even defend himself. There are two sides to every story, you know that.


Of course there is only one side when only one party is attending counseling. I have asked him to go to counseling for his depression, ocd and alcohol bingeing and he has refused every time, saying it's BS and he doesn't believe in it. I've stated this already in this thread. He prefers to get through life by numbing himself with prescription drugs. He _now_ claims that he is over the depression and ocd but I suspect he is just saying that to get me off his back about counseling. He _might_ be open to it if I was standing in front of him handing him divorce papers, but should it really need to come to that?


----------



## A Bit Much

candy12 said:


> Of course there is only one side when only one party is attending counseling. I have asked him to go to counseling for his depression, ocd and alcohol bingeing and he has refused every time, saying it's BS and he doesn't believe in it. I've stated this already in this thread. He prefers to get through life by numbing himself with prescription drugs. He _now_ claims that he is over the depression and ocd but I suspect he is just saying that to get me off his back about counseling. He _might_ be open to it if I was standing in front of him handing him divorce papers, but should it really need to come to that?


I happen to believe that if you told him you had an affair, he would change his mind about counseling on the spot. Either that, or he would demand a divorce.

Either way, the see-sawing you continue to engage in would end.


----------



## candy12

Thumper said:


> Ok I haven't read up on this in a while, so let me ask this:
> 
> Does he know how unhappy you are, and is still not considering going to marriage counseling together??? Or this is just you going to an IC, and the IC is getting one side of the story?


right now I am going to IC to work through my own issues. Of course the discussion of my marital issues becomes a central topic of discussion. After a few sessions of IC the plan was to then lay it all out and tell him that I am unhappy and try to work through things, but after sessions of IC with two therapists who think I'm basically married to a loser despite how I try my best to paint him in a fair light, it makes me wonder what I would achieve by working on it.


----------



## Faithful Wife

"He might be open to it if I was standing in front of him handing him divorce papers, but should it really need to come to that?"


And you sincerely think doing that (honestly asking for a divorce) is WORSE than what you actually did (have an affair)?


----------



## candy12

candy12 said:


> He _now_ claims that he is over the depression and ocd but I suspect he is just saying that to get me off his back about counseling.


I was wrong about this. It appears he has actually come out of his state of depression and ocd for the most part. It seems he does want to work on our marriage and he said he will stop drinking. Even though I am going to counseling on my own, the IC has given me the tools to communicate better with my husband so he can understand what I'm not happy about, and he is changing.


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix

Hi Candy,



candy12 said:


> I was wrong about this. It appears he has actually come out of his state of depression and ocd for the most part. It seems he does want to work on our marriage and he said he will stop drinking. Even though I am going to counseling on my own, the IC has given me the tools to communicate better with my husband so he can understand what I'm not happy about, and he is changing.*(FTP: Your words make you sound happy for a change, that's great news! :smthumbup*


Fantastic news! One step at a time! It would be even better *if he had the same communication tools as you*, that way you're both on the same page. Any chance now that he appears to be waking up, you could get him to see your IC or his own IC?

*Keep going....*


----------



## Wing Man

The more and more I read your opening first paragraph the more disastrous this marriage sounded, so it would probably be a good idea to finally end it. I am in a marriage too that is clinging to it's last piece of thread and a final decision will have to be made very soon.


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix

Hello Wing Man,



Wing Man said:


> The more and more *I read your opening first paragraph the more disastrous this marriage sounded,* so it would probably be a good idea to finally end it. I am in a marriage too that is clinging to it's last piece of thread and a final decision will have to be made very soon.


I'm very sorry for what you are going through, but not all relationships/marriages are the same and should never be judged so. You read just ONE paragraph and that was enough to convince YOU that Candy's marriage was a disaster based on your own marriage, so she should end it.

*Here's a summary from Post#1 to present:* 
_(Candy please amend as you see fit)._

*1.* Candy's husband cheated on her FIRST! She forgave him. He has a whole series on problems, the worst one is his drinking problem.

*2.* Candy HAD an EA with a work colleague and ended it even though the OM had the same future in mind as her. She still loves her silly "plonker" of a husband  even though he won't consider IC or even MC. (_Did I mention she still loves him, strange woman, no one's prefect! )._

*3.* Candy registered with an IC and discovered the tools to communicate with her husband. He at last shows signs of waking up from where ever he has been. He still has problems, but I think Candy can see a future.

So is this a *disastrous marriage?* I don't think so, what do you think Wing Man?


----------



## Wazza

FlyingThePhoenix said:


> Hello Wing Man,
> 
> 
> 
> I'm very sorry for what you are going through, but not all relationships/marriages are the same and should never be judged so. You read just ONE paragraph and that was enough to convince YOU that Candy's marriage was a disaster based on your own marriage, so she should end it.
> 
> *Here's a summary from Post#1 to present:*
> _(Candy please amend as you see fit)._
> 
> *1.* Candy's husband cheated on her FIRST! She forgave him. He has a whole series on problems, the worst one is his drinking problem.
> 
> *2.* Candy HAD an EA with a work colleague and ended it even though the OM had the same future in mind as her. She still loves her silly "plonker" of a husband  even though he won't consider IC or even MC. (_Did I mention she still loves him, strange woman, no one's prefect! )._
> 
> *3.* Candy registered with an IC and discovered the tools to communicate with her husband. He at last shows signs of waking up from where ever he has been. He still has problems, but I think Candy can see a future.
> 
> So is this a *disastrous marriage?* I don't think so, what do you think Wing Man?


Thought Candy's affair was a PA as well? She has not stated so but has not denied when others did, as I recall.

That said, agree with your basic premise. Wingman is premature.


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix

Wazza said:


> Thought Candy's affair was a PA as well? She has not stated so but has not denied when others did, as I recall.
> 
> That said, agree with your basic premise. Wingman is premature.


Well spotted! I read her thread from post#1 repeatedly, but couldn't work out if it was EA or both? So I went with EA because she described the OM in great detail about there shared outlook in life etc., there was no mention of a PA that I could see. But if Candy updates me I'll update my post, otherwise I'll leave it at EA.

Candy, will you please educate me, I know it's an EA but both? If you PM I can't tell a soul nor update the post, mum's the word!


----------



## Wazza

candy12 said:


> I realize that the kind of cheating I'm doing is far worse than what he did, but he DID cheat. Twice if you count the time he went to his brother's bachelor party weekend 8 months after the first cheating incident and, due to influence of alchohol and peer pressure, got several 45 minute lap dances with touching involved. He told me about the touching almost a year after it happened. Again, no excuse for what I'm doing but he is no innocent.





candy12 said:


> Originally Posted by Shaggy
> I can't help but think you aren't attracted to your husband largely because you have the OM and you don't want to cheat on the OM.
> 
> See that's a huge part of the harm affairs do. They make the cheater despise the bs. So of course you don't find your husband attractive.
> 
> 
> 
> Would you still not think it was cheating if it wasn't paid for?
Click to expand...

Far worse than lap dances.....how could it be other than a PA?


----------



## Calibro

samyeagar said:


> I think you should most definately not tell your husband about this other man and keep seeing him. If you haven't been physical with him, you should do so ASAP, and see how long you can keep it away from your husband because he doesn't need to know, and it will make everything that much more exciting


You are a terrible person and you should feel very, very bad.


----------



## Calibro

candy12 said:


> I am seeing a therapist but I still feel lost. I need to stop leading these two men on.


Why don't you get him to see one as well? And see a marriage counselor. These are probably deep rooted psychological issues he needs to get to the root of in order to solve.


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by candy12
> _I realize that the kind of cheating I'm doing is far worse than what he did, but he DID cheat. Twice if you count the time he went to his brother's bachelor party weekend 8 months after the first cheating incident and, due to influence of alchohol and peer pressure, got several 45 minute lap dances with touching involved. He told me about the touching almost a year after it happened. Again, no excuse for what I'm doing but he is no innocent._
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by candy12
> _Quote:_
> _Originally Posted by Shaggy _
> _I can't help but think you aren't attracted to your husband largely because you have the OM and you don't want to cheat on the OM. _
> 
> _See that's a huge part of the harm affairs do. They make the cheater despise the bs. So of course you don't find your husband attractive. _
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _Would you still not think it was cheating if it wasn't paid for?_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Far worse than lap dances.....how could it be other than a PA?
Click to expand...

That's interesting, so her husband cheated twice within 8 months but was under the influence of alcohol both times, therefore the old line of he was drunk so not in control of his faculties is being used to justify her cheating. 

But she acknowledges that her cheating is far worse and this admission is true! Because she planned and executed her affair from the very beginning for over a year. She definitely had an EA, but, I'm afraid I don't see the PA here. Why admit to a year long affair and not confirm it was a PA? Also her husband suspected her of cheating earlier on because of her texting in front of him and did nothing.

Candy, I've defended you in your thread, but Wazza has made me question this defence of you. If you wish to set the record straight I'll still defend YOU, because you've already taken positive steps to returning to your marriage and taken steps for your own IC and learnt to talk to your husband again. 

Again same offer, PM me and mum's the word! 

What's the old saying "The truth shall set you free" I'm not your maker, but just a tamer, like you looking for answers.


----------



## Wazza

FlyingThePhoenix said:


> That's interesting, so her husband cheated twice within 8 months but was under the influence of alcohol both times, therefore the old line of he was drunk so not in control of his faculties is being used to justify her cheating.
> 
> But she acknowledges that her cheating is far worse and this admission is true! Because she planned and executed her affair from the very beginning for over a year. She definitely had an EA, but, I'm afraid I don't see the PA here. Why admit to a year long affair and not confirm it was a PA? Also her husband suspected her of cheating earlier on because of her texting in front of him and did nothing.
> 
> Candy, I've defended you in your thread, but Wazza has made me question this defence of you. If you wish to set the record straight I'll still defend YOU, because you've already taken positive steps to returning to your marriage and taken steps for your own IC and learnt to talk to your husband again.
> 
> Again same offer, PM me and mum's the word!
> 
> What's the old saying "The truth shall set you free" I'm not your maker, but just a tamer, like you looking for answers.


Just to be clear, you may be defending, but I am not attacking.

Candy is an anonymous stranger on the Internet who has come for help. I will help where I can. If I am critical of her at any point it is a desire to help her contemplate a hard truth, not any desire to punish.

To me human nature says she would be more likely to deny a false accusation of physical infidelity than to explicitly confirm a true accusation (and I picked one quote...if you go through her dialog with Shaggy you will see multiple examples.)


----------



## Wing Man

FlyingThePhoenix said:


> Hello Wing Man,
> 
> 
> 
> I'm very sorry for what you are going through, but not all relationships/marriages are the same and should never be judged so. You read just ONE paragraph and that was enough to convince YOU that Candy's marriage was a disaster based on your own marriage, so she should end it.
> 
> *Here's a summary from Post#1 to present:*
> _(Candy please amend as you see fit)._
> 
> *1.* Candy's husband cheated on her FIRST! She forgave him. He has a whole series on problems, the worst one is his drinking problem.
> 
> *2.* Candy HAD an EA with a work colleague and ended it even though the OM had the same future in mind as her. She still loves her silly "plonker" of a husband  even though he won't consider IC or even MC. (_Did I mention she still loves him, strange woman, no one's prefect! )._
> 
> *3.* Candy registered with an IC and discovered the tools to communicate with her husband. He at last shows signs of waking up from where ever he has been. He still has problems, but I think Candy can see a future.
> 
> So is this a *disastrous marriage?* I don't think so, what do you think Wing Man?


Just sayin; because my marriage doesn't even contain 1/2 the mess & drama that her's does and we have a tough fight on our hands to make it work, so good luck with all of that and hopefully they have an enormous mop and broom to clean all that up.


----------



## torn2012

*Re: Re: married and met another man*



Wazza said:


> Just to be clear, you may be defending, but I am not attacking.
> 
> Candy is an anonymous stranger on the Internet who has come for help. I will help where I can. If I am critical of her at any point it is a desire to help her contemplate a hard truth, not any desire to punish.
> 
> To me human nature says she would be more likely to deny a false accusation of physical infidelity than to explicitly confirm a true accusation (and I picked one quote...if you go through her dialog with Shaggy you will see multiple examples.)


And this behavior leads me to believe that it is extremely unlikely that Candy will ever confess to her H that she is having a PA. If she can't acknowledge it anonymously then I doubt very much that she will tell him.

Candy, you are making progress in this thread. But in order to get to where you eventually want to be I believe you need to acknowledge the full weight of the cruel acts you have committed. By saying it straight. Not by drip feeding info then letting others draw the lines between the dots.

And this is not about feeding the curiosity of the TAM community. This is about you admitting the truth to yourself.

You will never be remorseful enough to effect the changes in your behavior you seek if you continue to shield yourself from fully comprehending what you have done.

As a side note (not sure if this was covered earlier or maybe glossed over?) I read that your H confides in you his past sexual discretions with men. Have you asked him if he is confused about his sexuality or if he is indeed gay? Perhaps this could explain some of his poor behavior. Maybe he's trying to get you to help him come to terms with himself?


----------



## Wazza

torn2012 said:


> And this behavior leads me to believe that it is extremely unlikely that Candy will ever confess to her H that she is having a PA. If she can't acknowledge it anonymously then I doubt very much that she will tell him.
> 
> Candy, you are making progress in this thread. But in order to get to where you eventually want to be I believe you need to acknowledge the full weight of the cruel acts you have committed. By saying it straight. Not by drip feeding info then letting others draw the lines between the dots.
> 
> And this is not about feeding the curiosity of the TAM community. This is about you admitting the truth to yourself.
> 
> You will never be remorseful enough to effect the changes in your behavior you seek if you continue to shield yourself from fully comprehending what you have done.
> 
> As a side note (not sure if this was covered earlier or maybe glossed over?) I read that your H confides in you his past sexual discretions with men. Have you asked him if he is confused about his sexuality or if he is indeed gay? Perhaps this could explain some of his poor behavior. Maybe he's trying to get you to help him come to terms with himself?


I think the drip feeding is normal. Plain old common or garden trickle truth.

But Candy, I agree it would be good for you if you type the words. My wife, and every other wayward I know, feels deep shame and pain at what they have done. Don't let that define you. Get it off your chest. Clear the air and start anew.


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix

Wazza said:


> Just to be clear, you may be defending, but I am not attacking.
> 
> Candy is an anonymous stranger on the Internet who has come for help. I will help where I can. If I am critical of her at any point it is a desire to help her contemplate a hard truth, not any desire to punish.
> 
> To me human nature says she would be more likely to deny a false accusation of physical infidelity than to explicitly confirm a true accusation (and I picked one quote...if you go through her dialog with Shaggy you will see multiple examples.)


Wazza, just to be clear, I AM defending HER, but I never said YOU were attacking her or ANYONE else, I just said I AM defending HER. I admire those that embrace the simple words in life, and understand their true meaning, CHANGE is one of those words. Candy has used this word to CHANGE her life, and that is what I'm defending, her actions in this story are her own. Thank you for pointing out Shaggy's post(s).



Wing Man said:


> Just sayin; because my marriage doesn't even contain 1/2 the mess & drama that her's does and we have a tough fight on our hands to make it work, so good luck with all of that and hopefully they have an enormous mop and broom to clean all that up.


Agreed, every story is different and MUST NEVER judged against another for comparison! I have already posted on your thread, and I hope you take the FIRST to CHANGE your life so your wife can see this new MAN in YOU!



torn2012 said:


> And this behavior leads me to believe that it is extremely unlikely that Candy will ever confess to her H that she is having a PA. If she can't acknowledge it anonymously then I doubt very much that she will tell him.
> 
> Candy, you are making progress in this thread. But in order to get to where you eventually want to be I believe you need to acknowledge the full weight of the cruel acts you have committed. By saying it straight. *(1)* *Not by drip feeding info then letting others draw the lines between the dots*.
> 
> And this is not about feeding the curiosity of the TAM community. This is about you admitting the truth to yourself.
> 
> You will never be remorseful enough to effect the changes in your behavior you seek if you continue to shield yourself from fully comprehending what you have done.
> 
> As a side note (not sure if this was covered earlier or maybe glossed over?) I read that your H confides in you his past sexual discretions with men. Have you asked him if he is confused about his sexuality or if he is indeed gay? Perhaps this could explain some of his poor behavior. Maybe he's trying to get you to help him come to terms with himself?


I agree with this, and (1) and is so correct, that's why I'm sticking with the EA because that's all Candy has given us. I cannot guess if it's been a PA or not, I have read and been given more information by Wazza, that leads to believe there is more, but as I said, Candy must set the record straight.

As for her husband's problems, well, how long is a piece of string?????



Wazza said:


> I think the drip feeding is normal. Plain old common or garden trickle truth.
> 
> But Candy, I agree it would be good for you if you type the words. My wife, and every other wayward I know, feels deep shame and pain at what they have done. Don't let that define you. *Get it off your chest. Clear the air and start anew. (FTP: Well said!)*


Agreed same answer above!

Candy, which statement is TRUE for YOU:
1) I have Guilt and Remorse for my actions in the affair.
2) I True Guilt and True Remorse for my actions in the affair.
_3) Check your PM for my answer FTP.*_

_* Okay, okay, number (3) was a joke, kind of......_


----------



## candy12

Ok, to set the record straight, it was primarily an EA although there has been some physical contact (no intercourse). I'm not seeing how I was drip feeding info. I had never heard the terms EA or PA until after my first post here. I merely laid out the whole story in my first post. I stated I have been "seeing him" for almost a year. I've never heard of anyone use that terminology to describe contact with someone that is never physical. I have fully divulged all the details to 2 IC's and a personal friend, so it's not like it's not out in the open in any capacity. I do know what I've done. I was not under the influence of alcohol either, so I was fully aware of my betrayals wheras my H was not aware of his until after the fact both times.

As for the possibility of my H being gay, I did ask him that a number of times. He is adamant that he is not attracted to men. I know he has no issues at all becoming aroused my me or other women. He was going through a period where he was obsessing about sexual shame, these obsessions I believe were brought on by his acts of cheating and going off of an SSRI shortly after. 

I do feel very deep remorse for what I've done...remorse efects change in the present. I refuse to feel shame or guilt however. Those are useless emotions that keep one dwelling in the past. It's those emotions that caused my husband to spiral into a period of psychosis and I refuse to go down that route. I can't change the past. The present is all that we have.


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix

candy12 said:


> Ok, to set the record straight, it was primarily an EA although there has been some physical contact (no intercourse). I'm not seeing how I was drip feeding info. I had never heard the terms EA or PA until after my first post here. I merely laid out the whole story in my first post. I stated I have been "seeing him" for almost a year. I've never heard of anyone use that terminology to describe contact with someone that is never physical. I have fully divulged all the details to 2 IC's and a personal friend, so it's not like it's not out in the open in any capacity. I do know what I've done. I was not under the influence of alcohol either, so I was fully aware of my betrayals wheras my H was not aware of his until after the fact both times.
> 
> As for the possibility of my H being gay, I did ask him that a number of times. He is adamant that he is not attracted to men. I know he has no issues at all becoming aroused my me or other women. He was going through a period where he was obsessing about sexual shame, these obsessions I believe were brought on by his acts of cheating and going off of an SSRI shortly after.
> 
> I do feel very deep remorse for what I've done...remorse efects change in the present. I refuse to feel shame or guilt however. Those are useless emotions that keep one dwelling in the past. It's those emotions that caused my husband to spiral into a period of psychosis and I refuse to go down that route. I can't change the past. The present is all that we have.


*Well said Candy! !*

Yep! me too, I didn't know what an EA/PA/Fog etc. etc. was until I came to TAM as well. I always thought an affair was an affair, I had no idea there were two separate parts and I'm learning the hard way what both mean to my own story all those years ago. 

Dam it! and I was so looking forward to NOT defending you , Oh well, please, do continue..


----------



## Hicks

No one should stick with a bad marriage or a bad marital partner. People generally cannot change too much... But a counselor who tells you to do whatever makes you feel good, it's your life etc... It's too easy to take that message and say counselor says it's ok to cheat... When in reality the counselor should be specifying that you don't need to work on your marraige but out of basic decency you should be true to it of you have not come to the point of divorce.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

No children, rereading also your first post: You need to separate.


----------



## Wing Man

See_Listen_Love said:


> No children, rereading also your first post: You need to separate.


I agree 100%. :smthumbup:


----------



## working_together

Financial reasons are just an exuse to keep yourself comfortable, I can't count the times I've read women on here having affairs and not leaving their marriage because of financial reasons. Or, the women who meet men and expect to be financially supported by them even when they don't live together. WTF?

I left my marriage a year and half ago with no money and two kids to support. Was it stressful? of course, I was a basket cake, but I always knew I made the right decision, and life got much better.

As for the cheating, all cheaters justify their actions, all cheaters are in a fog, everything seems so much better. It's a drug, and it can make you feel things that aren't really there. Once out of the fog, you'll realize that OM is not really a good catch, and is only serving as an escape to your personal problems, and issues in your marriage.

Your husband will most likely carry the scar of being cheated on for the rest of his life.


----------



## Wazza

See_Listen_Love said:


> No children, rereading also your first post: You need to separate.





Wing Man said:


> I agree 100%. :smthumbup:


Why?

I have no axe to grind either way, but making such a judgement based on a post written by someone in the throes of an affair seems hasty and ill advised.

Affairs 101...WS is critical of BS because it justifies the affair. There is almost certainly another side to this story that would totally change your judgements.


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix

Hello See_Listen_Love and Wing Man,



See_Listen_Love said:


> No children, rereading also your first post: You need to separate.


You read just post#1 which is (50%) and concluded because they don't have kids, they must separate! :scratchhead: 



Wing Man said:


> I agree 100%. :smthumbup:


Why? :scratchhead:

Really, wait for it.....

Candy's Post#1 is (50%), of one side of the coin, all other posts are (50%) of the other side of the coin. Therefore NOT only giving Candy an insight into her own behaviour, but also every tamer the complete picture to her story from post#1 (50%) to her latest post (50%).

*Post#1(50%) + All other posts to date (50%) = Complete story (100%).* _How's that..._

Have a nice day!


----------



## candy12

Wazza said:


> Affairs 101...WS is critical of BS because it justifies the affair. There is almost certainly another side to this story that would totally change your judgements
> 
> I have no axe to grind either way, but making such a judgement based on a post written by someone in the throes of an affair seems hasty and ill advised.


You are talking about the judgments of these two other posters, but aren't you judging my situation primarily on the basis of the affair? If I wrote only the first few paragraphs of my first post, and left out the info on the A, would you still be insisting there is another side to the story and that the criticisms of my husband are non justified? Yes, some people have affairs and then rewrite history. but do you not believe that many people stay in bad marriages for the wrong reasons, and have affairs instead of leaving?


----------



## Wazza

candy12 said:


> You are talking about the judgments of these two other posters, but aren't you judging my situation primarily on the basis of the affair? If I wrote only the first few paragraphs of my first post, and left out the info on the A, would you still be insisting there is another side to the story and that the criticisms of my husband are non justified? Yes, some people have affairs and then rewrite history. but do you not believe that many people stay in bad marriages for the wrong reasons, and have affairs instead of leaving?


Candy, I am I judging your situation as a whole. I am only commenting on the affair.

Here are the key facts of your situation as I see them.

1. You have fallen in love with another man, and had a degree of interaction with him that would be very hurtful to you if it was your husband or your lover doing it to you with another. You have done this without regard for your husband's feelings.

2. You make some allegations of flaws in your husband, which may be true or may be you rewriting history to justify your affair. And if I had to guess, there is probably a bit of both in there.

3. In your communications with your husband (sorry) you are a liar.

I think you have admitted1 and 3. When you are out of the fog of the affair you can make a more balanced judgement on 2. 

Based on this I have posted from the perspective that you need to sort out your own stuff and then make some decisions about your marriage. If, affair aside, I were to counsel you on your marriage, I would not make any judgements without hearing your husband's side.

I don't know if your husband is wrong. I know you are.

Sorry, I know you are already hurting and these words will seem harsh. But there is all sorts of pain from infidelity. I am not trying to add to your pain, but I believe you will add to your own pain if you make bad decisions.


----------



## Wazza

If you leave your husband to be with your lover, and you lover subsequently meets someone he likes better, should he dump you?


----------



## Wing Man

From everything that I read that marriage has more scandalous holes in it than a block of swiss cheese, so that is why I have repeatedly suggested a long seperation or divorce.


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix

Hello Wing Man,

*Your post#263*


Wing Man said:


> From everything that I read that marriage has more scandalous holes in it than a block of swiss cheese, so that is why *(1)* *I have repeatedly suggested a long seperation or divorce. *


*I completely agree with YOU Wing Man on your point (1) above, when it was Post#1. But I believe you have missed Candy's Post#237, please allow me...*

*Candy's Post#237*


candy12 said:


> I was wrong about this. It appears he has actually come out of his state of depression and ocd for the most part. It seems he does want to work on our marriage and he said he will stop drinking. Even though I am going to counseling on my own, the IC has given me the tools to communicate better with my husband so he can understand what I'm not happy about, and he is changing.


*...and I will continue to say Candy has moved on from your position to her current position which is far, far better than her Post#1 position in her marriage!*

_Off topic: __I love Swiss cheese especially "Gruyere Cheese" Really, to die for! _


----------



## Wiserforit

candy12 said:


> About a year ago I met a man through work (he was a client of my company). We instantly connected, and he asked me out to dinner, not realizing I was married.
> 
> ... I never told him that my husband and I are not living together, I just used the word separated.


I went back to the OP and see how manipulative you were with this other man.

He didn't "realize" you were married because you concealed this from him, first of all by not wearing a wedding ring and secondly lying by omission right through the end of dinner, where you lied about being separated.

There will be more to it than this. "We instantly connected" is a nice, blameless way to speak about flirting with someone and leading them to believe you were both single and interested in him. 

Looks like you were lying to him for over a year, regarding your marriage, until finally on pg 10 of this thread you "told him the truth". 

I have trouble believing the minimization of this affair in terms of its physical aspect. When we're told that the other man loves you and can't live without you, it would be preposterous to say that is the result of the occasional dinner and coffee. You've said it is physical to some degree but in conjunction with the way you've minimized the story of how this affair started it just seems like more down-playing.

I do not believe any counselor would be encouraging an affair while married, and you suggested so in the thread. 

Ending the affair was the right thing. Being 100% honest with yourself would be even better. Good people can do bad things, and one of the things affairs do is turn us into manipulators. 

So I am curious whether you had wedding rings ever, or whether you took them off at some point, or what. Could you please answer that question?


----------



## Wing Man

FlyingThePhoenix said:


> Hello Wing Man,
> 
> *Your post#263*
> 
> 
> *I completely agree with YOU Wing Man on your point (1) above, when it was Post#1. But I believe you have missed Candy's Post#237, please allow me...*
> 
> *Candy's Post#237*
> 
> 
> *...and I will continue to say Candy has moved on from your position to her current position which is far, far better than her Post#1 position in her marriage!*
> 
> _Off topic: __I love Swiss cheese especially "Gruyere Cheese" Really, to die for! _


All I'm saying to her is - "good luck Candy", but if it turns out that there's more cheating or more drinking that takes place down the road or any other shenanigans........it won't surprise me a bit(because there's been so much history with that before).


----------



## candy12

Wiserforit said:


> I went back to the OP and see how manipulative you were with this other man.
> 
> He didn't "realize" you were married because you concealed this from him, first of all by not wearing a wedding ring and secondly lying by omission right through the end of dinner, where you lied about being separated.
> 
> There will be more to it than this. "We instantly connected" is a nice, blameless way to speak about flirting with someone and leading them to believe you were both single and interested in him.
> 
> Looks like you were lying to him for over a year, regarding your marriage, until finally on pg 10 of this thread you "told him the truth".
> 
> I have trouble believing the minimization of this affair in terms of its physical aspect. When we're told that the other man loves you and can't live without you, it would be preposterous to say that is the result of the occasional dinner and coffee. You've said it is physical to some degree but in conjunction with the way you've minimized the story of how this affair started it just seems like more down-playing.
> 
> I do not believe any counselor would be encouraging an affair while married, and you suggested so in the thread.
> 
> Ending the affair was the right thing. Being 100% honest with yourself would be even better. Good people can do bad things, and one of the things affairs do is turn us into manipulators.
> 
> So I am curious whether you had wedding rings ever, or whether you took them off at some point, or what. Could you please answer that question?


Yes I manipulated. Yes I lied. Yes the wedding ring came off. No, it was not just dinner and coffee and I never said it was, that was another poster who stated that.

My counselors did not 'encourage' the affair directly, but neither insisted I end it either. My current IC is having me delve into the history of my relationship with my husband, from the time we first met through the beginning of our marriage to determine whether how much of my disatisfication with him is related to the affair and how much is real. She finds it significant that when H and I first met, I broke it off with him about 3 days after we met because I found myself turned off by him despite an initial attraction. We ended up reconnecting 3 years later and starting dating again, and she finds that it's not a coincidence that when we did reconnect it during a very turbulent period of my life. 



Wazza said:


> I believe you will add to your own pain if you make bad decisions.


I agree. I guess there are no guarantees in life, but I do feel I can think a little clearer without the OM right now. The constant lying, manipulating and sneaking around was causing me unbelievable stress, sleeping problems et.. But,regarding the potentially bad decisions, here is where my current IC is coming from: _she doesn't see why it's a big deal to end the marriage for the reason that there are *no kids *involved. If I did pursue something with the OM, and it doesn't work out for whatever reason, then what's the worst that can happen? I'm single and I start dating other people and no longer have to deal with a man who keeps dumping his issues on me on a daily basis? Maybe I find someone who will put me first in a relationship instead of himself? _ 

I'm not sure of the answers to these questions myself to be honest. I feel like I love my husband which is why I want to work it out, but sometimes I'm not sure if it's really love or something else (security? pity? sibling love rather than married love?) . I don't even know what being in a good marriage is supposed to feel like. I'm hoping with my counseling sessions I do arrive at some answers.


----------



## candy12

Wazza said:


> If you leave your husband to be with your lover, and you lover subsequently meets someone he likes better, should he dump you?


I guess it would depend on why. Did we have a good marriage and he just finds her sexier and younger? Was he just bored? Do we have kids? For these reasons I would be devastated if this happened to me. But if we were not meeting each others needs, and he just didn't have the guts to leave until he met this other person, I would still be very hurt, but I wouldn't want him to be with me if he didn't want to.


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix

> Yes I manipulated. Yes I lied. Yes the wedding ring came off. No, it was not just dinner and coffee and I never said it was, that was another poster who stated that.


GREAT! So you took ownership of your own sh1t and ended the affair, feels good doesn't it! The OM is no longer in YOUR marriage (YES I said marriage, because that's where you put him!) You Womaned-up; can we move on now to the present please!!!!



> My counselors did not 'encourage' the affair directly, but neither insisted I end it either. My current IC is having me delve into the history of my relationship with my husband, from the time we first met through the beginning of our marriage to determine whether how much of my disatisfication with him is related to the affair and how much is real. *She finds it significant that when H and I first met, I broke it off with him about 3 days after we met because I found myself turned off by him despite an initial attraction. We ended up reconnecting 3 years later and starting dating again, and she finds that it's not a coincidence that when we did reconnect it during a very turbulent period of my life*.


So you entered the marriage because for all the same reasons you just gave in *(1)* below. It seems your husband also entered this marriage for the same reasons as you. Your post#1 paints this picture clearly. 



> I agree. I guess there are no guarantees in life, but I do feel I can think a little clearer without the OM right now. The constant lying, manipulating and sneaking around was causing me unbelievable stress, sleeping problems et.. But,regarding the potentially bad decisions, here is where my current IC is coming from: *she doesn't see why it's a big deal to end the marriage for the reason that there are no kids involved. (FTP: Exactly!)* If I did pursue something with the OM, and it doesn't work out for whatever reason, then what's the worst that can happen? I'm single and I start dating other people and no longer have to deal with a *man who keeps dumping his issues on me on a daily basis? (FTP: You're his wife, your meant to listen to his crap and he's your husband, he's meant to listen your crap! I believe this is called a marriage!!!!!)* *Maybe I find someone who will put me first in a relationship instead of himself?* *(FTP: It takes two to tango, but I agree!) *


*Q.* Did your husband EVER put you first, I mean REALLY FIRST!

It also seems your communication skills before, during and before your IC, were in the toilet and both of you are to blame for that!!!! Your husband since day one was in his own little world and you just accepted it, without truly being there for him. We all have extra baggage from our past when we enter a new relationship and that sometimes spills into the new relationship/marriage. 

*Q.* What was your response to your husband’s confessions of his past?



> I'm not sure of the answers to these questions myself to be honest. I feel like I love my husband which is why I want to work it out, but sometimes I'm not sure if it's really love or something else *(1) (security? pity? sibling love rather than married love?)* . I don't even know what being in a good marriage is supposed to feel like. I'm hoping with my counseling sessions I do arrive at some answers.


*(1) Love: Security, Pity, Sibling or Marriage, aren’t there elements of each of these in your marriage anyway.* 

*When the day comes that your husband feels as you do (1), that will be the first time (I think) the both of you actually agree on something in your marriage is true.*

*Correct me if I’m wrong!*


----------



## Wiserforit

candy12 said:


> Yes I manipulated. Yes I lied.


Excellent. For straight talk. 



> Yes the wedding ring came off.


Slipped there. This is called the passive voice, used by people that are avoiding accountability. And I already knew that much. 

You took the wedding ring off. It didn't happen by itself. And it couldn't be more obvious you don't want to explain, since you did not actually answer my question. So we can infer it was a devious act. Please practice being honest though and explain now. Second request. 



> No, it was not just dinner and coffee and I never said it was, that was another poster who stated that.


You've stated that there was no sex. It would be a first here at TAM, so I just want to clarify that for your hall of fame entry blurb. I mean, it would be the first time it was true. It would be incident number seven million three hundred fifty-seven that someone said that when it was not true. 

So allow me to say that I don't believe you. You had sex with him. Honesty there would also be a step in the right direction. 



> My counselors did not 'encourage' the affair directly, but neither insisted I end it either.


This is another example of manipulative wording. Notice how it doesn't actually state the position of the counselors. 

What counselors generally do in these situations is ask you a pointed question like "Do you think you should be having an affair...?" I married into a family with husband/wife team that have been counselors for almost 30 years now. It was my best friend and college room-mate. We married a pair of sisters. I lived with and then next to them through their academic training and then through their practice too so I gained some insights on how they operate. 

The one thing you were very direct about though was saying that the counselor scoffed at the idea of not dating the other man after divorce, and how those here against it were just the opinions of untrained, bitter people projecting their own problems upon you. I mention this glaring contrast to demonstrate how you are manipulative about how you use these counselors in managing perceptions on this forum. 

On the one hand the counselors can be pulled out to smash people with opinions you don't like in direct, brutal fashion - but on the other hand actions you take that would obviously be disapproved of... the counselors don't even seem to have opinions on. 




> My current IC is having me delve into the history of my relationship with my husband, from the time we first met through the beginning of our marriage to determine whether how much of my disatisfication with him is related to the affair and how much is real. She finds it significant that when H and I first met, I broke it off with him about 3 days after we met because I found myself turned off by him despite an initial attraction. We ended up reconnecting 3 years later and starting dating again, and she finds that it's not a coincidence that when we did reconnect it during a very turbulent period of my life.


Interesting. You wrote the most about something I didn't even ask about, and nothing at all on the wedding rings, which was the sole question I asked. 

So you actually told me nothing about what I asked, and instead laid down this smokescreen of diversionary fluff. And the diversion is actually smuggling in a rationalization for taking off the wedding ring: because the diversion is all about casting aspersions on the validity of your marriage. 



> Maybe I find someone who will put me first in a relationship instead of himself?


Isn't that an apt statement... for the other man. 


Just to be clear, I harbor no ill-will towards you. In fact, I wish you well on your journey to complete honesty. You'll find it solves a lot of problems.

Now let's hear about the wedding rings.


----------



## turnera

candy, please listen, really listen, to wiserforit. This is GOOD stuff for you to digest, the tearing away at the layers, the way you deflect blame from yourself. I'm sure you've done it all your life, to get whatever you want or to avoid recrimination. I do it, too, so I know it when I see it. (and yes, I'm ashamed of myself for it; I hope you are, too)

It's kind of like an alcoholic - you first have to admit you have a problem. Only then can you start to become a better person. It is YOUR personality that allowed you to cheat and is giving you these consequences. Do you want to learn from this part of your life and come out the other end a better, nicer, less-using person? Or are you just trying to get what you want, as you are used to doing? I hope you choose the former. A good first step is to stop the deflecting language ('the ring CAME OFF' instead of "I took my ring off so I could cheat"). Are you willing?


----------



## candy12

FlyingThePhoenix said:


> *Q.* Did your husband EVER put you first, I mean REALLY FIRST!


Good question. My IC asked me this same question. I had to think really had about this. He almost always puts himself first. When my father had cancer, my H would complain when I wanted us to drive the hour and half it took to visit him. He complained that "all we do is sit around his apartment and it's boring". Well my father died not too long afterwards and I felt guilt for a long time that I didn't visit him more. But we regularly drove an hour to hang out with HIS family...because his family was fun and his mom cooked and waited on us all the time. And there was alcohol served at all times  I guess one thing I can think of is he let me get a cat, when he doesn't like cats or litter boxes in the house, but I really wanted one. But even then it had to be a specific type of cat that he wanted in order for me to get it. I guess that's supposed to be a compromise, right?



> It also seems your communication skills before, during and before your IC, were in the toilet and both of you are to blame for that!!!! Your husband since day one was in his own little world and you just accepted it, without truly being there for him. We all have extra baggage from our past when we enter a new relationship and that sometimes spills into the new relationship/marriage.
> 
> *Q.* What was your response to your husband’s confessions of his past?


Yeah we never really had great communication skills. But regarding his confessions of the past, we did communicate about that a lot - he talked about it constantly for about a 3 month period. I told him that what he did wasn't anything to be shameful about, and it's in the past anyway so who cares? I certainly didn't. He would agree with me, and then an hour later start up again. There was no way to reason with him, you can't reason with OCD, but I tried all the time. Now it seems he has made it beyond that issue thank goodness. But I never knew about any of these confessions until 10 years into our marriage.


> *When the day comes that your husband feels as you do (1), that will be the first time (I think) the both of you actually agree on something in your marriage is true.*
> 
> *Correct me if I’m wrong!*


Not sure what you mean by this.


----------



## turnera

candy, whether or not you picked an assh*le for husband has no matter on whether you chose to cheat. Please stop focusing on how bad your marriage was. If it sucks, get out of it. Don't cheat your way out of it. Hold on to your dignity.


----------



## Wazza

Wiserforit said:


> You've stated that there was no sex. It would be a first here at TAM, so I just want to clarify that for your hall of fame entry blurb. I mean, it would be the first time it was true. It would be incident number seven million three hundred fifty-seven that someone said that when it was not true.
> 
> So allow me to say that I don't believe you. You had sex with him.


She didn't say there was no sex, she said there was no intercourse. Big difference. Could be the physical aspect was holding hands, or could be it included oral, anal, and everything but penis in vagina. Could even be penis met vagina but was not allowed to complete.

Cabsy's wife denies intercourse and has not been proved wrong, though almost everyone is sure it's a lie. Can't Sit Still is another. and plenty of EAs out there. 

TAM scoffs at this notion all the time. Lots of people lie about it but not everyone.

Candy, I didn't challenge that when you wrote it, in part because I already felt I was being harsh. But at some stage you need to tell your husband what you did. Depending what it was you may have crossed his breaking point.
You might get some more useful insights here if you are a bit more specific...you can see how people react.


----------



## Wazza

candy12 said:


> no longer have to deal with a man who keeps dumping his issues on me on a daily basis? Maybe I find someone who will put me first in a relationship instead of himself?


I know you are in a bad place right now but this is an incredibly selfish answer in my view. Saying that as food for thought.

Your husband is being selfish because he is leaning on you to work through issues in his life. What have you done to help him?

Your conduct of the affair is an incredibly selfish act. Not supporting your husband is another.

And a good relationship is one where he puts you first?

You know that your affair has just given him another great big issue that will take years to get over, right? You get to choose the issue of course.

1. A wife who cheated then left.
2. A wife who left. (If you do not come clean before leaving and he doesn't find out)
3. A wife who stays but admits a damaging affair.
4. A wife who stays, but communication is bad. He doesn't know why, he just knows she is shut down...she knows why because she knows the secrets she is keeping.

And right now you are working through your problems alone, making decisions that will affect his life. What are you doing to work on your problems together? (Which is a chance to grow closer). 

And you have broken it off with OM, but are you distant with your husband? Are you talking? Are you being physical (both sexually and non sexually)? Because if not you are actively damaging your marriage.


----------



## candy12

With regard to the deflecting language, I guess I used it because whenever I type a post I expect a new poster to read my thread and write something to attack me. I've explained in detail to the counselors about the wedding ring. That I would take the wedding ring off whenever I would see the OM. When I'm with the IC there is no one else in the room to pour salt on my wounds so I feel more comfortable confronting my actions.

Anway, the first counselor asked me if I felt guilty for what I was doing. The second counselor does not bring up the ethics of my affair at all (in fact she doesn't even refer to it as an affair, rather a relationship). That's the reason why I went into what you call a "smokescreen of diversionary fluff". I'm trying to explain what it is that my IC and are are discussing. because it's not about the ethics of the affair like you insist it is. If you don't want to believe that, then that's your choice.

Regarding sex, we did engage in sexual activity, but as I've said there was no intercourse. He fingered me down there, I jerked him off.


----------



## candy12

Wazza said:


> I know you are in a bad place right now but this is an incredibly selfish answer in my view. Saying that as food for thought.


Point taken, and I knew that would be the response as I was writing it.



> Your husband is being selfish because he is leaning on you to work through issues in his life. What have you done to help him?


I've done a lot to help him actually. I've researched his issues for him, I've listened to him for countless hours, giving comfort and advice. I've asked him questions trying to understand where he's coming from. I've encouraged him over and over to see a counselor. When I have issues, he doesn't have a lot of patience in listening about them and he tunes me out. i am by far more supportive of him than he is with me.



> And you have broken it off with OM, but are you distant with your husband? Are you talking? Are you being physical (both sexually and non sexually)? Because if not you are actively damaging your marriage.


Yes we are talking, in fact spending more time together than we were for a while. I am trying to reconnect with him. But we are not very physical either sexually or non sexually. We never were before all this happened, and now it's even less so.


----------



## turnera

How can you reconnect with a man to whom you lie every day of your life?


----------



## candy12

turnera said:


> How can you reconnect with a man to whom you lie every day of your life?


honestly, I don't know. It's one of the reasons I am thinking of getting a divorce. I wish I just got a divorce after he cheated on me and spared both him and myself this insanity.


----------



## turnera

Me too.

Do it now.


----------



## Wazza

candy12 said:


> honestly, I don't know. It's one of the reasons I am thinking of getting a divorce. I wish I just got a divorce after he cheated on me and spared both him and myself this insanity.





turnera said:


> Me too.
> 
> Do it now.


The other alternative is to try and fix things.

My belief is if you walk away now you will just take rhe same baggage into the next relationship.

I also think that in the back of your mind is the notion that if you divorce it is then ok to be with the other man. Not sure that is wise.


----------



## Wiserforit

candy12 said:


> With regard to the deflecting language, I guess I used it because whenever I type a post I expect a new poster to read my thread and write something to attack me.


Playing the victim: "I use manipulative language to deflect responsibility because people attack me when I am completely honest."

Which isn't true. You were congratulated by myself and others for using direct language accepting responsibility. We corrected you on diversionary language - exactly the opposite of what you are saying right now. 




> I've explained in detail to the counselors about the wedding ring.


They are not here. I asked the question. And you are still withholding those details.

Look how many manipulative non-answering sentences there are in comparison to straight answer sentences. 





> That I would take the wedding ring off whenever I would see the OM.


OK that is some degree of progress. Congratulations. Now how about more of it, and you know exactly what I am after - the whole story with the wedding ring. 

There is a complete story that begins with the first time you took it off, why you took it off, how often you were doing that for, etc. Presumably the first time you met this other man, you didn't know what he looked like or anything about him, so this answer you have given is only part of the story. How could you know that you wanted him to think you were single before you even knew what he looked like? Unless this was your practice already to take the ring off. You did not see him with the wedding ring on the first time, and then decide to start taking it off. He would have noticed. 

This would be sooooooo easy to explain completely in just a few sentences but what it does is demonstrate how calculating you were about having an affair. So it isn't something you want to talk about. But this is how you heal. 



> When I'm with the IC there is no one else in the room to pour salt on my wounds so I feel more comfortable confronting my actions.


Playing the victim doesn't work on me. Look how quick you are to pull that, and repeatedly. 




> Anway, the first counselor asked me if I felt guilty for what I was doing. The second counselor does not bring up the ethics of my affair at all (in fact she doesn't even refer to it as an affair, rather a relationship). That's the reason why I went into what you call a "smokescreen of diversionary fluff". I'm trying to explain what it is that my IC and are are discussing. because it's not about the ethics of the affair like you insist it is. If you don't want to believe that, then that's your choice.


What they do is try to steer you into healthy patterns of thought by asking the right questions. I just told you that.

That's why you can be manipulative with this and rationalize that you are not being dishonest by saying "my counselor did not insist I stop having the affair". 

When all of us know perfectly well that an affair is not healthy no matter what the status of your marriage is. You've actually already acknowledged that and have gotten positive reinforcement for that from me and a lot of others.

What I am working on is practicing giving straight, honest, above-board communication with people. Because you are going to find your life improves tremendously just with this one big step in the right direction. 



> Regarding sex, we did engage in sexual activity,


Well yes and there is a rule about manipulating an affair parnter with sex. You give them awesome sex, not consolation prize, marginal just-so sex.

That's why they can't live without you and will wait until the end of time, soul mates, blah blah blah...


----------



## Wazza

Wiserforit said:


> There is a complete story that begins with the first time you took it off, why you took it off, how often you were doing that for, etc. Presumably the first time you met this other man, you didn't know what he looked like or anything about him, so this answer you have given is only part of the story. How could you know that you wanted him to think you were single before you even knew what he looked like? Unless this was your practice already to take the ring off. You did not see him with the wedding ring on the first time, and then decide to start taking it off. He would have noticed.


WiseForIt seems to have noticed what may be an important detail. Interested in your perspective.

Stay the course Candy. It might seem like we are trying to beat you up but we are trying to help you here. What you will get in return for openness with us is a range of ideas you can used based on the truth.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

Wazza said:


> Why?
> 
> I have no axe to grind either way, but making such a judgement based on a post written by someone in the throes of an affair seems hasty and ill advised.
> 
> Affairs 101...WS is critical of BS because it justifies the affair. There is almost certainly another side to this story that would totally change your judgements.


Opinions and advice are for 99% based on one side on these forums...


----------



## See_Listen_Love

FlyingThePhoenix said:


> Hello See_Listen_Love and Wing Man,
> 
> 
> 
> You read just post#1 which is (50%) and concluded because they don't have kids, they must separate! :scratchhead:
> 
> 
> 
> Why? :scratchhead:
> 
> Really, wait for it.....
> 
> Candy's Post#1 is (50%), of one side of the coin, all other posts are (50%) of the other side of the coin. Therefore NOT only giving Candy an insight into her own behaviour, but also every tamer the complete picture to her story from post#1 (50%) to her latest post (50%).
> 
> *Post#1(50%) + All other posts to date (50%) = Complete story (100%).* _How's that..._
> 
> Have a nice day!



Have a nice day too,

But this



> He is immature, a little self -centered and materialistic, negative, does not have a filter when he speaks and has embarrassed me on numerous occasions by sharing what should be private information with family, friends and coworkers. When he gets angry, he gets ANGRY. He has never gotten physical but will completely blow up and say insulting things to me out of anger. He gets into a state and it takes him a while to come out of. When he comes out of it he is then like a totally different person, holding different views than when he was angry. If I get angry with him over something he never takes me seriously and laughs at me. This made me somewhat unhappy in the first couple of years of our marriage. He started taking antianxiety meds and it did help a bit with the emotional control so it became less of an issue over time. I also learned over time to pick my battles so I just deal with his tantrums until he calms down and I don’t let it upset me.
> 
> He also has a problem with drinking. He does not drink alone, or often, but when he does he cannot control how much he drinks. Two years ago, he got so drunk at a new years party that he ended up on the couch with the hostess of the party engaged in a sexual encounter at about 3am when I, and her husband, went upstairs to go to sleep. He told me about it the next day (someone from the party entered the room and they were caught), and was so distraught about what he did both to me, and the woman and her husband, he entered into a cycle of depression and obsessive compulsive disorder, despite the fact that I forgave him. He also started obsessing about some other sexual incidences from his past when he was in high school and college, and repeatedly sharing these obsessions with me despite the fact that I told him I don’t want to hear about them. He had his dosage of meds increased and then started a totally different med which was controlling the OCD and depression for a while but makes him constantly tired. He never wants to do anything or go anywhere. Even to go out to dinner I need to drag him off the couch. All he does is sleep on the couch all day and night when he’s not at work. I have asked him to go to behavioral counseling so he can wean off the drugs many times and he refuses.


Is just a hopeless guy.


----------



## candy12

Wiserforit said:


> There is a complete story that begins with the first time you took it off, why you took it off, how often you were doing that for, etc. Presumably the first time you met this other man, you didn't know what he looked like or anything about him, so this answer you have given is only part of the story. How could you know that you wanted him to think you were single before you even knew what he looked like? Unless this was your practice already to take the ring off. You did not see him with the wedding ring on the first time, and then decide to start taking it off. He would have noticed.


I had the wedding ring on during the entire first encounter. It was a business meeting in a conference room. I have meetings with clients on almost a daily basis and I don't take my wedding ring off in advance for them. He didn't notice the ring. I don't know why he didn't notice it. It was the second business meeting with him when I took the ring off.




Wazza said:


> The other alternative is to try and fix things.
> 
> My belief is if you walk away now you will just take rhe same baggage into the next relationship.
> 
> I also think that in the back of your mind is the notion that if you divorce it is then ok to be with the other man. Not sure that is wise.


All true. But I'm not sure if it can be fixed. I don't even know what it is that I would be fixing, and who would benefit from it.


----------



## turnera

That's not the kind of encounter we're talking about. And you know it.


----------



## candy12

turnera said:


> That's not the kind of encounter we're talking about. And you know it.


No, I don't know what you mean. He is asking about the first time I met him. Am I missing something?


----------



## turnera

He said the first time you took it off, not the first time you met him. Taking it off was a deliberate step into adultery. BTDT - my first year of marriage, at night school, I went to the second class without my ring cos there was a guy sitting next to me who flirted with me. A couple days later, I guilted out and wore it again; the guy was pissed at me. And I deserved it.


----------



## candy12

Wazza said:


> And you have broken it off with OM, but are you distant with your husband? Are you talking? Are you being physical (both sexually and non sexually)? Because if not you are actively damaging your marriage.


I am still trying to work on my marriage and some days are good but I have very low moments. We are talking and spending time together, which has been enjoyable for the most part, but i have no interest in touching him or having him touch me. This existed to a lesser extent before the A but it is now magnified to the point I am nauseated by it, especially sex. Part of it is because my attraction is still with the OM, and the other part is guilt. If I tell my husband about the affair, I know we would end up divorced. I don't think our marriage can handle the resulting trust and betrayal issues along with all the other problems. I feel the only way to stay together is to not tell him, but will I ever be able to get over this feeling and be able to connect with him? If I just tell him I want a divorce he won't understand why, and I don't want him to feel like it's his fault. My IC told me to tell him the marriage is just not working for either of us. I am so torn apart inside. I am so scared of divorce and worry I'd regret my decision.


----------



## Wazza

candy12 said:


> I am still trying to work on my marriage and some days are good but I have very low moments. We are talking and spending time together, which has been enjoyable for the most part, but i have no interest in touching him or having him touch me. This existed to a lesser extent before the A but it is now magnified to the point I am nauseated by it, especially sex. Part of it is because my attraction is still with the OM, and the other part is guilt. If I tell my husband about the affair, I know we would end up divorced. I don't think our marriage can handle the resulting trust and betrayal issues along with all the other problems. I feel the only way to stay together is to not tell him, but will I ever be able to get over this feeling and be able to connect with him? If I just tell him I want a divorce he won't understand why, and I don't want him to feel like it's his fault. My IC told me to tell him the marriage is just not working for either of us. I am so torn apart inside. I am so scared of divorce and worry I'd regret my decision.


Hi Candy, I totally get the terrible bind you are in.

I personally believe the lie will tear your marriage apart anyway, therefore the only chance you have is to tell him the truth. It will either be the act that saves your marriage, or it will make the coup de grace cleaner, quicker and less painful than it will have been.

Should you decide to tell him, tell him the whole truth. Any lies, any glossing over details, will be uncovered and will come back to bite you.

You have been very strong in this thread so far and we have not been gentle with you. I think you have it in you to do this, and I sense a core of honesty in you that I think will not rest until you do.

Just checking...is your counsellor advising you to just say the marriage is not working and then divorce, or to say its not working and confess? Cos if it is the former that is spectacularly wrong advice IMO.


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix

Hi Candy,



candy12 said:


> I am still trying to work on my marriage and some days are good but I have very low moments. We are talking and spending time together, which has been enjoyable for the most part, but i have no interest in touching him or having him touch me. This existed to a lesser extent before the A but it is now magnified to the point I am nauseated by it, especially sex. Part of it is because my attraction is still with the OM, and the other part is guilt.


*Q.* When you were a couple before marriage, did you EVER have REAL communication between each other, by that I mean, talking, sharing ideas, learning what he does, and him learning what you do etc.. The more communication you do with each other the more connections you’ll make?




candy12 said:


> If I tell my husband about the affair, I know we would end up divorced. I don't think our marriage can handle the resulting trust and betrayal issues along with all the other problems. I feel the only way to stay together is to not tell him, but will I ever be able to get over this feeling and be able to connect with him? If I just tell him I want a divorce he won't understand why, and I don't want him to feel like it's his fault. My IC told me to tell him the marriage is just not working for either of us. I am so torn apart inside. I am so scared of divorce and worry I'd regret my decision.


*Q.* Your husband cheated twice (yes alcohol induced) but still he cheated, how do you know for 100% that he won’t forgive you if you do confess your affair? 


*Q.* Which one did you have the REAL emotional connection with, your husband or the OM?

*Q.* What did the emotional connection feel like, can you be specific, as much as you can? _(Don't answer this, if you don't want)_

Candy, your marriage I'm sorry to say, will now be based on a lie, nothing else you do from now on can change is, unless you tell him about your affair. You have taken hit after hit on this thread and look at you, your still standing, WOW! You have strong convictions and your words speak for themselves and you're not afraid to express them. If your husband forgives as you have him, maybe you have just found a common ground to take your first step together back into your marriage. If your husband divorces you, then you are FREE to start again, without guilt. You made a CHOICE to give up the OM, the ONE MAN who you connected with for the very first time. That feeling is very unique and while some have it torn away, some like you have a chance to get it back.


----------



## Wazza

Hi Candy, just wondering how you were going?


----------



## candy12

Hi there,

Thanks for checking in on me. Unfortunately I wish I could say I have made progress but i have not. I still have not told my husband, I'm still in counseling, I still spend large amounts of my time pining over the loss of my relatiionship with the OM who would probably not take me back at this point anyway. I have a strong urge to disclose everything to my husband but I just can't bring myself to do it. The only time I'm happy is during the hour I'm in couseling because it's the only time I can be true to myself.


----------



## turnera

Why don't you just divorce him?


----------



## candy12

turnera said:


> Why don't you just divorce him?


Because I don't want to face a future of sitting alone in a one bedroom apartment feeling miserable and guilty for officially fcuking up my husband's life, and mine too.


----------



## mablenc

candy12 said:


> Because I don't want to face a future of sitting alone in a one bedroom apartment feeling miserable and guilty for officially fcuking up my husband's life, and mine too.


So you rather face a miserable future keeping such a big burden within you and robbing your husband of a life changing choice? 

You may find some insight in his article. That is no way to live. 

http://rescuingmymarriage.wordpress.com/2013/02/06/drip-drip-drip-the-danger-of-the-trickle-truth/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## A Bit Much

candy12 said:


> Because I don't want to face a future of sitting alone in a one bedroom apartment feeling miserable and guilty for officially fcuking up my husband's life, and mine too.


Well I never.

I know you're being honest but damn is that a selfish statement. All you're talking about here is geography. Lives have already been ffed up, including your own.

You are saying here that you would rather lie and live with your husband whom you have betrayed because it's nice and cushy there. Materially you are comfortable, so what he doesn't know won't hurt him and you'll just carry on like nothing happened. Nice.


----------



## candy12

One of the reasons I don't want to tell him is that he would have to know about every time I flat out lied to his face, manipulated him, lied in response to his suspicions, fabricated stories... I lied so many times I can't imagine how anyone can move forward knowing that, and not only trust me again, but trust anyone. We don't have children so there is no reason for him to stay in the marriage. I think it is better to just divorce and spare him the lifelong trauma. There are some nice one bedroom apartments in the area.


----------



## A Bit Much

There is no reason for YOU to stay in the marriage either.


----------



## Chelle D

candy12 said:


> Because I don't want to face a future of sitting alone in a one bedroom apartment feeling miserable and guilty for officially fcuking up my husband's life, and mine too.


Until you are able to sit alone in a one bedroom apartment, come to terms with what you did to your marriage, grow & mature, and actually be content with yourself living in that one bedroom apartment... well, you'll never be happy in another relationship either. You have to be happy/content with yourself before you can bring joy to a relationship involving *giving up all of yourself* for another being. (Hence, the meaning of marriage)

Please, Release your husband from this living hell you are putting him through. Let him find a caring person who will help pull him out of his depression, and will _truly_ care about him. 

Using his financial security ("makes a good income"), to avoid your own discomfort in divorcing him is not a valid option. The longer you just use him for his income, the more miserable you will feel.


----------



## Wazza

Candy you are not the first person I have seen think like that. Quite natural, but wrong.

You are realising to cannot live with the guilt of what you did? Divorce your husband and the guilt will still be with you. Ad he will always wonder what happened. Two lives hurt.

Go to him, come clean, say you were wrong and want to change...at least you clear the air. Maybe you guys can work through it, maybe not, but at least you can know you made what amends you could. So you clear you conscience AND give your marriage its only chance of survival.

I am a betrayed spouse. Ironclad truth here...I promise you that in the medium to long term, the moments when my wife admitted wrong helped me get over what she did, and the lies she told and did not admit drove the knife in further. In the end it was far easier to get over the physical aspect of what she did than the lies and the emotional betrayal.

Why not go half way. Write down a compete confession. Get it all on paper, get it all sorted. Then you can think about whether to give it to him.


----------



## Wazza

Chelle D said:


> Until you are able to sit alone in a one bedroom apartment, come to terms with what you did to your marriage, grow & mature, and actually be content with yourself living in that one bedroom apartment... well, you'll never be happy in another relationship either. You have to be happy/content with yourself before you can bring joy to a relationship involving *giving up all of yourself* for another being. (Hence, the meaning of marriage).


Wrong way round in my view. Marriage is kind of like parenthood. It forces you to put someone else first and in return you see beyond self absorption and find rewards for yourself.

Actually very apt analogy..just like a baby without a diaper, sometimes a spouse sh1ts on you and you just have to forgive for the sake of the relationship. 

There is only one way to clear the air of what she did.Truth is a really simple concept and we tie ourselves in knots avoiding it.


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## Jung_admirer

candy12 said:


> I am still trying to work on my marriage and some days are good but I have very low moments. We are talking and spending time together, which has been enjoyable for the most part, but i have no interest in touching him or having him touch me. This existed to a lesser extent before the A but it is now magnified to the point I am nauseated by it, especially sex. Part of it is because my attraction is still with the OM, and the other part is guilt. If I tell my husband about the affair, I know we would end up divorced. I don't think our marriage can handle the resulting trust and betrayal issues along with all the other problems. I feel the only way to stay together is to not tell him, but will I ever be able to get over this feeling and be able to connect with him? If I just tell him I want a divorce he won't understand why, and I don't want him to feel like it's his fault. My IC told me to tell him the marriage is just not working for either of us. I am so torn apart inside. I am so scared of divorce and worry I'd regret my decision.


I've read through the entire thread up to today's posts. Before I add some comments, let me say I am a BS with a DOD about a year ago. The purpose of IC is self-discovery, to find out what it is to be you. In the context of a relationship, self-discovery is about learning what you bring with you into the partnership. When a therapist suggests a course of action, however well-meaning, they have crossed a point where they are serving themselves instead of you. You would do well to reject such counsel and find a provider that gently encourages you to discover your path for yourself. Your confusion is normal and expected. You have many questions to work through, and these questions will continue to dominate your perception until you have the ego strength to endure an encounter with those aspects of yourself you would prefer to hide. 

Why did I select this spouse and how did he bear the projections of my unmet needs? Where does my fear of abandonment come from? How did I give myself permission to engage in acts I find reprehensible in others? In your IC, you will find the time and place to come clean to your husband. Take the time you need to work on you and compassionately encourage your husband to do the same. Make your decisions from a place of strength, not out of fear. Then place your cards on the table and determine with your husband if there is a path forward, or if you should separate. Best wishes on finding your path-


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## Wazza

Any update?


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## nogutsnoglory

candy12 said:


> If we sell the house then a divorce would be financially feasible. We both make a good living. I am hesistant to divorce because yes, it will throw away the life and home I have made up to this point (and all the people that are part of it) and I don't want to hurt my husband. But are those good enough reasons to not get a divorce?


Your vows are supposed to mean something. You are incredibly selfish and this other man will learn it at some point. You need to love your husband and talk to him, give him consequences for being a miserable person (if hat is what he actually is) and if he won't respond then you need to do what you need to do. For you to try and make this decision while you are cheating on him is very selfish and wrong of you. You say all these bad things about your husband but you are cheating on him. That makes you a bad person.
Fix yourself first


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## candy12

Wazza said:


> Any update?


Status quo for the most part, although I feel like I'm more out of the fog now. Have to admit, reading through some of the threads in CWI section have scared the living crap out of me with regards to how my husband might react if/when I tell him. He has started weening off his meds, and he actually mentioned he may have to see a "shrink" if his problems escalate by doing so, so maybe there is hope for him getting better. I am still in IC so trying to get better myself.

And by bumping this thread, I don't need any more posts with the intent of telling me I am a bad, selfish person. Thank you.


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## Wazza

candy12 said:


> Status quo for the most part, although I feel like I'm more out of the fog now. Have to admit, reading through some of the threads in CWI section have scared the living crap out of me with regards to how my husband might react if/when I tell him. He has started weening off his meds, and he actually mentioned he may have to see a "shrink" if his problems escalate by doing so, so maybe there is hope for him getting better. I am still in IC so trying to get better myself.
> 
> And by bumping this thread, I don't need any more posts with the intent of telling me I am a bad, selfish person. Thank you.


Sorry, didn't want to start a storm. Just wanted to know how you are going.


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## candy12

Wazza said:


> Sorry, didn't want to start a storm. Just wanted to know how you are going.


I know, that wasn't directed at you. Thanks for checking in


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## nogutsnoglory

candy12 said:


> I am still trying to work on my marriage and some days are good but I have very low moments. We are talking and spending time together, which has been enjoyable for the most part, but i have no interest in touching him or having him touch me. This existed to a lesser extent before the A but it is now magnified to the point I am nauseated by it, especially sex. Part of it is because my attraction is still with the OM, and the other part is guilt. If I tell my husband about the affair, I know we would end up divorced. I don't think our marriage can handle the resulting trust and betrayal issues along with all the other problems. I feel the only way to stay together is to not tell him, but will I ever be able to get over this feeling and be able to connect with him? If I just tell him I want a divorce he won't understand why, and I don't want him to feel like it's his fault. My IC told me to tell him the marriage is just not working for either of us. I am so torn apart inside. I am so scared of divorce and worry I'd regret my decision.


Now that you had an affair, you must get to a point that staying married is your H's decision to make. Has your IC gone over how incredibly self centered you seem to be? You play like you are worried about your husband blah, blah but its all about you, your safety net, your feelings, your desires, you you you


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## Wiserforit

candy12 said:


> One of the reasons I don't want to tell him is that he would have to know about every time I flat out lied to his face, manipulated him, lied in response to his suspicions, fabricated stories... I lied so many times I can't imagine how anyone can move forward knowing that, and not only trust me again...


So in conformity with that character, you'll just keep on lying to him.


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## iBolt

candy12 said:


> And by bumping this thread, I don't need any more posts with the intent of telling me I am a bad, selfish person. Thank you.


While you likely are not a bad selfish person, you certainly are not doing what good and selfless people do under this circumstances - go figure

DAAAAAMN!

This has just opened my eyes to the psychology of people who cheat on their partners. Reading this thread, and to especially read the rationale you apply to your actions has made me so sad. I am flabbergasted. God help you and your poor husband.


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## Is It Just Me

nogutsnoglory said:


> Now that you had an affair, you must get to a point that staying married is your H's decision to make. Has your IC gone over how incredibly self centered you seem to be? You play like you are worried about your husband blah, blah but its all about you, your safety net, your feelings, your desires, you you you.


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## Spinner

My god, the abuse on this thread! I can't believe Candy put up with it for as long as she did! I would have told you all to take a hike loong ago. Do you really think that being hateful will help anyone in any way? It's a miracle she took any of the snobbish ''advice'' offered. 

And while we're being morally superior, every one of you are on this forum because you suck at relationships in one way or another. It's hardly fair to expect her to be perfect.

Just wanted to say to Candy that I think it's extremely mature of you to take all of this and digest it. I know how hard it must have been for you to end your affair when you're not getting the support and love you need from your husband. A big kudos for that :smthumbup: I also know exactly what 



> Because I don't want to face a future of sitting alone in a one bedroom apartment feeling miserable and guilty for officially fcuking up my husband's life, and mine too.


this feels like, and it's no way to live. With you being as willing as you are to take criticism and work on your problems I'm sure someone decent would be happy to have you. Not that you should need a SO to be happy in life. If you're not happy spending time with you, why should someone else be?

Also, I believe your husband's mental illness qualifies for an annulment regardless of how long you've been married. I'm not 100% sure about that, it's just what I've heard.


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## nogutsnoglory

Spinner said:


> My god, the abuse on this thread! I can't believe Candy put up with it for as long as she did! I would have told you all to take a hike loong ago. Do you really think that being hateful will help anyone in any way? It's a miracle she took any of the snobbish ''advice'' offered.
> 
> And while we're being morally superior, every one of you are on this forum because you suck at relationships in one way or another. It's hardly fair to expect her to be perfect.
> 
> Just wanted to say to Candy that I think it's extremely mature of you to take all of this and digest it. I know how hard it must have been for you to end your affair when you're not getting the support and love you need from your husband. A big kudos for that :smthumbup: I also know exactly what
> 
> 
> 
> this feels like, and it's no way to live. With you being as willing as you are to take criticism and work on your problems I'm sure someone decent would be happy to have you. Not that you should need a SO to be happy in life. If you're not happy spending time with you, why should someone else be?
> 
> Also, I believe your husband's mental illness qualifies for an annulment regardless of how long you've been married. I'm not 100% sure about that, it's just what I've heard.


when you come here as the cheater you must expect to be treated as you deserve. She is not honest in her real life with her H. She is/has been told numerous times what to do, what is morally right, and she continues to want the easy way out and claims it is for the betterment of her husband to do it this way.
And for the record many of us are here for many reasons that are not because we suck at our marriages. Quite an immature comment I must say.
If she showed true remorse, the kind where you learn you are 100% wrong and need to deal with the consequences of your actions this forum becomes a support system. If you continue to deflect and show yourself to be the selfish person that cheated to begin with the forum gets annoyed and the wording becomes more harsh. 
I do not disagree that some people need to watch how they talk to others and I am in that boat as well at times, not in this case.


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## Kimberley17

I have been where you are to a degree. It is a terrible position to be in. I can tell you from epoerience once you get to the point where you feel sick when your H touches you there is no going back. Unfortunately, divorce is inevitable.


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## candy12

Spinner said:


> My god, the abuse on this thread! I can't believe Candy put up with it for as long as she did! I would have told you all to take a hike loong ago. Do you really think that being hateful will help anyone in any way?  It's a miracle she took any of the snobbish ''advice'' offered.
> 
> And while we're being morally superior, every one of you are on this forum because you suck at relationships in one way or another. It's hardly fair to expect her to be perfect.
> 
> Just wanted to say to Candy that I think it's extremely mature of you to take all of this and digest it. I know how hard it must have been for you to end your affair when you're not getting the support and love you need from your husband. A big kudos for that :smthumbup: I also know exactly what
> 
> 
> 
> this feels like, and it's no way to live. With you being as willing as you are to take criticism and work on your problems I'm sure someone decent would be happy to have you. Not that you should need a SO to be happy in life. * If you're not happy spending time with you, why should someone else be?*Also, I believe your husband's mental illness qualifies for an annulment regardless of how long you've been married. I'm not 100% sure about that, it's just what I've heard.


Spinner, thank you for the supportive words. The bolded part is especially what I am working on right now. Believe me I have wanted to just delete this thread many times, and the only reason I haven't is because of the small handful of people who seem genuinely interested in helping.


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## candy12

nogutsnoglory said:


> when you come here as the cheater you must expect to be treated as you deserve. She is not honest in her real life with her H. She is/has been told numerous times what to do, what is morally right, and she continues to want the easy way out and claims it is for the betterment of her husband to do it this way.
> And for the record many of us are here for many reasons that are not because we suck at our marriages. Quite an immature comment I must say.
> If she showed true remorse, the kind where you learn you are 100% wrong and need to deal with the consequences of your actions this forum becomes a support system. If you continue to deflect and show yourself to be the selfish person that cheated to begin with the forum gets annoyed and the wording becomes more harsh.
> I do not disagree that some people need to watch how they talk to others and I am in that boat as well at times, not in this case.


Despite what you think, because you don't really know me, I actually do care about my husband greatly. In fact, the reason I stayed in the marriage for 2 years following the night he cheated while he descended into his mental illness, was to help him. I was getting nothing out of the marriage, everything was all about him. I made the wrong choice to enter an affair 2 years later. But to claim I don't care about my husband is way off base. 

Besides, I've asked for no futher insulting posts on my thread yet you continue to do so, and not only me but to another poster who expressed a different viewpoint. For someone judging the character and maturity of others you might want to consider how that reflects on you.


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## nogutsnoglory

candy12 said:


> Despite what you think, because you don't really know me, I actually do care about my husband greatly. In fact, the reason I stayed in the marriage for 2 years following the night he cheated while he descended into his mental illness, was to help him. I was getting nothing out of the marriage, everything was all about him. I made the wrong choice to enter an affair 2 years later. But to claim I don't care about my husband is way off base.
> 
> Besides, I've asked for no futher insulting posts on my thread yet you continue to do so, and not only me but to another poster who expressed a different viewpoint. For someone judging the character and maturity of others you might want to consider how that reflects on you.


I expect nothing less from you. I have not insulted anyone but you. To have her say all here are due to us sucking at relationships is clearly rude and immature so I stated it as such.
I am sorry for your difficulty, I truly am, but to think you can come on a public board and dictate the responses is ridiculous.
To only take the advice of the people that enable your reckless behavior is more ridiculous. I am trying to help. I truly think you are making more mistakes by continuing to hurt your husband and not be honest with him as to the state of your marriage. You are also allowing him to feel the guilt of his affair and are not sharing with him that he is not the only culprit at this point.
Very destructive and selfish is how I see it. Again, I am sorry you feel this is about me being mean or hateful, but sometimes you have to shake a tree to get the fruit to drop out.


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## turnera

The final truth is this: if you don't tell your husband the truth, you don't have a real marriage. That's not what marriage is. Not telling him is protecting YOU, at the expense of a real marriage.


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## candy12

nogutsnoglory said:


> To have her say all here are due to us sucking at relationships is clearly rude and immature so I stated it as such. I am sorry for your difficulty, I truly am, but to think you can come on a public board and dictate the responses is ridiculous.


It seems it is you who is trying to dictate responses. You didn't like what another poster wrote so you called her immature and refuted everything she said, claiming to know what kind of responses I "deserve". Besides, it's been months since I've posted here actively seeking help so it's not like I'm asking for responses to begin with.



> To only take the advice of the people that enable your reckless behavior is more ridiculous.


I never said I am only taking the advice of people that enable my reckless behavior, I said I am taking the advice of those offering it without character assassinations and moral superiority complexes.



> I am trying to help. I truly think you are making more mistakes by continuing to hurt your husband and not be honest with him as to the state of your marriage. You are also allowing him to feel the guilt of his affair and are not sharing with him that he is not the only culprit at this point.
> Very destructive and selfish is how I see it. Again, I am sorry you feel this is about me being mean or hateful, but sometimes you have to shake a tree to get the fruit to drop out.


Ok, thank you for the help.


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## Spinner

nogutsnoglory said:


> when you come here as the cheater you must expect to be treated as you deserve


So you're saying you're God?



> She is not honest in her real life with her H.


I wouldn't be honest with him either! He's a basket case! There's no telling what he'd do. If she told him in the interest of being morally right, there is no good outcome. He is either simply hurt, or he snaps and does something like murdering her and burying her in the flower bed.



> And for the record many of us are here for many reasons that are not because we suck at our marriages. Quite an immature comment I must say.


Just trying to provide a little perspective. None of us are perfect and I think it's crazy to expect someone else to be. It's amazing that she laid the cards on the table the way she did. She has taken all of this in stride and done a lot more by breaking up with OM than I think most would.

Attacking her does no one any good. It doesn't even help you feel better about whatever it is that's made you so touchy about this subject. The most likely outcome was for her to delete the thread and decide never to ask for help again.


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## Spinner

candy12 said:


> Spinner, thank you for the supportive words. The bolded part is especially what I am working on right now. Believe me I have wanted to just delete this thread many times, and the only reason I haven't is because of the small handful of people who seem genuinely interested in helping.


Absolutely no problem, chica. Nothing riles me like people ganging up on someone. One or two rude remarks? Sure. 25 pages of them?? Really?? 

It sounds like you've already made a lot of progress and I for one am very happy for you  Just keep up the good work! One book you may want to read if you haven't gotten the recommendation already is Boundaries. It helps you really think about what is your problem and what is someone else's problem.


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## iBolt

Spinner said:


> My god, the abuse on this thread! I can't believe Candy put up with it for as long as she did! I would have told you all to take a hike loong ago. Do you really think that being hateful will help anyone in any way? It's a miracle she took any of the snobbish ''advice'' offered.
> 
> *Are you kidding me? Where is the hate? What folks seemed to be astounded by is the justification and rationalistion. Here's one for you. If a man came on here and admitted to battering his wife to the point of hospitalisation. Their marriage was not great. She's a recovering drug addict and had an affair in the past. He, however, is has all along been and continues to prevent his wife from seeking help for her anxieties due to a violent domestic situation - how do you expect ANY right minded human being to respond? Tell him how wonderful he is putting up with a crack-head? NO! He will be told the truth about his behaviour and to support her in getting all the help she needs.
> 
> Those are the two key themes in response to Candy's OP. Namely, cheating is wrong and is unjustifiable. It is what it is. Secondly, stop lying and deceiving. How is that hateful?
> 
> I think even you would agree that while very few have a perfect marriage or are perfect themselves, there are some things that have caused untold disasters in homes of several people on TAM - cheating is one of them. I think you miscalculate the strength of feeling on this subject which OP is choosing to not deal with.. and for what reasons?*
> 
> And while we're being morally superior, every one of you are on this forum because you suck at relationships in one way or another. It's hardly fair to expect her to be perfect.
> 
> 
> *This is just silly really considering that you have just expressed your own version of moral superiority. Also, who said she had to be perfect? If however, encouragement to be honest and quit deceiving people in this manner is a call to perfection - then so be it*
> 
> Just wanted to say to Candy that I think it's extremely mature of you to take all of this and digest it. I know how hard it must have been for you to end your affair when you're not getting the support and love you need from your husband. A big kudos for that :smthumbup: I also know exactly what
> 
> this feels like, and it's no way to live. With you being as willing as you are to take criticism and work on your problems I'm sure someone decent would be happy to have you. Not that you should need a SO to be happy in life. If you're not happy spending time with you, why should someone else be?
> 
> Also, I believe your husband's mental illness qualifies for an annulment regardless of how long you've been married. I'm not 100% sure about that, it's just what I've heard.


*Good heavens.*


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## lordmayhem

turnera said:


> The final truth is this: if you don't tell your husband the truth, you don't have a real marriage. That's not what marriage is. Not telling him is protecting YOU, at the expense of a real marriage.


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