# Parents: The first relationship.



## Cindywife (Nov 5, 2021)

Your first experience with other people are your parents or caregivers. They shape your ideas on how ppl interact and they affect how you perceive yourself and others. 

If your parents had a chaotic marriage filled with fighting, divorce and disruption then that is your guide. My parents divorced early and I only learned how to have a healthy relationship from years of conflict resolution, mistakes and self-education. 

I find myself struggling to be a good wife and a good person from lack of a stable upbringing. I try to reparent myself everyday but it's not easy. Plus, I suspect, I have slow processing speed (never tested) but it certainly would explain a lot of my issues. If anyone has had similar issues to these and know of ways I can improve myself I'd like to hear your suggestions. 💗


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

I had a horrible upbringing, with all kinds of things that no kid should ever have to deal with...All the things you mentioned and more..I know that I have scars from it, but recognized it, and did absolutely everything in my power to change it...I think it worked with the raising of my child, she is light years ahead of where i was at her age...I still have some things that I am not happy with about myself, but at this point in life, they aren't tragic enough to warrant any major disruption or anything...I am getting too far in age to start any major transformation...and it's not really preventing me from living my life as well as can be...Of course, its not perfect or anything....

I dunno...I used to believe it was all from the crap that I dealt with...Then I just realized(many years ago) at some point that I have to take ownership of what I do and don't do moving forward...Using that(bad upbringing), just became a convenient excuse for me... That wasn't what I wanted, so I let that go...Whatever I do(did) is now on me...

That's about it....I wish you all the best in your journey..


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

hamadryad said:


> I had a horrible upbringing, with all kinds of things that no kid should ever have to deal with...All the things you mentioned and more..I know that I have scars from it, but recognized it, and did absolutely everything in my power to change it...I think it worked with the raising of my child, she is light years ahead of where i was at her age...I still have some things that I am not happy with about myself, but at this point in life, they aren't tragic enough to warrant any major disruption or anything...I am getting too far in age to start any major transformation...and it's not really preventing me from living my life as well as can be...Of course, its not perfect or anything....
> 
> I dunno...I used to believe it was all from the crap that I dealt with...Then I just realized(many years ago) at some point that I have to take ownership of what I do and don't do moving forward...Using that(bad upbringing), just became a convenient excuse for me... That wasn't what I wanted, so I let that go...Whatever I do(did) is now on me...
> 
> That's about it....I wish you all the best in your journey..


You make a good point. So many use a bad upbringing to excuse bad behaviour all their lives. At some point we do have to take responsibility for our actions. 

There is childhood sexual abuse in my family. All those affected did really well and live positive lives. 
My mum spent a large part of her childhood in a strict unloving orphanage, yet she still managed to be a great mum which is amazing really. 

It's really positive when people recognise their issues and work on them, so good for you Cindy. My husband grew up in an unhappy marriage situation. His mum used him (as the eldest son) as her emotional crutch and he ended up with a very distant relationship with her, living the other side of the world.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Mine was horrific, but I only started speaking about it recently, most people don’t know this about me. I just didn’t want special treatment or sympathy I suppose.

But I really give my best to my husband and kids and if I need to unleash, I do that elsewhere. No excuse really to hurt your spouse and kids. I like myself a lot now, and am always happy to be pulled up by husband and kids if I’m not being my best. If I need to do better, it’s not because of the things that happened to me, it’s simply because I need to do better. We’re all flawed after all, and still leaning. Isn’t it great that we’re always learning?


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## Cindywife (Nov 5, 2021)

hamadryad said:


> I had a horrible upbringing, with all kinds of things that no kid should ever have to deal with...All the things you mentioned and more..I know that I have scars from it, but recognized it, and did absolutely everything in my power to change it...I think it worked with the raising of my child, she is light years ahead of where i was at her age...I still have some things that I am not happy with about myself, but at this point in life, they aren't tragic enough to warrant any major disruption or anything...I am getting too far in age to start any major transformation...and it's not really preventing me from living my life as well as can be...Of course, its not perfect or anything....
> 
> I dunno...I used to believe it was all from the crap that I dealt with...Then I just realized(many years ago) at some point that I have to take ownership of what I do and don't do moving forward...Using that(bad upbringing), just became a convenient excuse for me... That wasn't what I wanted, so I let that go...Whatever I do(did) is now on me...
> 
> That's about it....I wish you all the best in your journey..


That's great you have raised a healthy child! Maybe you were extra sensitive to her needs?


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## Cindywife (Nov 5, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> You make a good point. So many use a bad upbringing to excuse bad behaviour all their lives. At some point we do have to take responsibility for our actions.
> 
> There is childhood sexual abuse in my family. All those affected did really well and live positive lives.
> My mum spent a large part of her childhood in a strict unloving orphanage, yet she still managed to be a great mum which is amazing really.
> ...


Sexual abuse is bad. I had some minor abuse in that area but not as bad as some. My mom also used me as an emotional crutch and still does.


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## Cindywife (Nov 5, 2021)

Luckylucky said:


> Mine was horrific, but I only started speaking about it recently, most people don’t know this about me. I just didn’t want special treatment or sympathy I suppose.
> 
> But I really give my best to my husband and kids and if I need to unleash, I do that elsewhere. No excuse really to hurt your spouse and kids. I like myself a lot now, and am always happy to be pulled up by husband and kids if I’m not being my best. If I need to do better, it’s not because of the things that happened to me, it’s simply because I need to do better. We’re all flawed after all, and still leaning. Isn’t it great that we’re always learning?


I know what you mean about sympathy. I rarely talk about my past because I don't want to hear pity in peoples voices. I sometimes hear my "mom's" voice come out of me when talking to my husband and I correct myself. He of course also has his issues but has become better over the years.

Learning is great. I'm always looking for role models.


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

I think we are all influenced, good and bad, by those things. For me, I learned to be conflict avoidant and codependent from my mother. I did not think I got much from my father until I had a child. Then I watched how I became so much like him in an instant and have been working to change that for a long time.

My son is 17, and even last night we were talking, and I was explaining to him why I have a struggle with certain things, and the dynamics of father/son relationships. My guilt for being my father and at the same time trying to not spoil him and teach him work ethic is a problem for me. Trying to find a balance in there, and not just be a person that says no to everything is hard.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Cindywife said:


> I know what you mean about sympathy. I rarely talk about my past because I don't want to hear pity in peoples voices. I sometimes hear my "mom's" voice come out of me when talking to my husband and I correct myself. He of course also has his issues but has become better over the years.
> 
> Learning is great. I'm always looking for role models.


Have you heard of Joyce Meyer? She was badly sexually and emotionally abused as a child by her father. It's been a long journey but she came through it.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

For my son I try and have a friendly relationship with my XH. But I'm well aware if we had stayed together we would have set the WORST example for a relationship. I am happily single now and not looking to hurt my son by dating someone and bringing them into his life only to have it not work out and see him hurt. When I look at my parents, they bicker incessantly but love each other and sacrifice for each other. And they love their kids. Hope my son can see the loving relationships both his grandparents have and can model his own after that.


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## Cindywife (Nov 5, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> Have you heard of Joyce Meyer? She was badly sexually and emotionally abused as a child by her father. It's been a long journey but she came through it.


I love her! She's hilarious. Very inspirational.


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## Cindywife (Nov 5, 2021)

joannacroc said:


> For my son I try and have a friendly relationship with my XH. But I'm well aware if we had stayed together we would have set the WORST example for a relationship. I am happily single now and not looking to hurt my son by dating someone and bringing them into his life only to have it not work out and see him hurt. When I look at my parents, they bicker incessantly but love each other and sacrifice for each other. And they love their kids. Hope my son can see the loving relationships both his grandparents have and can model his own after that.


Your son is in a good place. You were raised by loving parents and made a healthy decision to divorce. You'll teach him well, I'm sure.💘


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Cindywife said:


> I love her! She's hilarious. Very inspirational.


Yes she is great😃


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Dr Laura Schlesinger used to say that a person has two chances at a parent-child relationship. 

The first one you have absolutely no control over as you are the child so you are at the mercy of your parent’s parenting abilities.

The second time you do have control and you can make the mindful decisions on how you will conduct yourself as a parent.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

I always doubt myself and feel very, very unworthy of the beautiful woman/wife and the incredible, beautiful little souls God has sent to our family/marriage… the stress of being responsible for them and accountable to God- is sometimes too much to bear- especially in this often dark world where tragedy is just around the corner…

St Joseph is my role model. I’m sure he doubted himself, having been given responsibility for the two holiest persons to ever walk the earth- when he was just an ordinary, working man… and poor. He’s depicted in art as old, gray, frail- but I don’t buy it. As a carpenter he worked with wood and stone all day and was a man’s man: strong, quiet, resolute… I’m sure God chose him as foster father for a reason but also sure that Joseph felt like I do- unworthy. I ask St. Joseph to help me- and I’m convinced he’s in a high place in heaven with his son.

St. Joseph- Pillar of Families- pray for us!


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## Jeffsmith35 (Apr 8, 2021)

In the absence of knowing how to act in a given situation, we default to the way we saw our parents act in that situation. It's subconscious programming, but if we acknowledge the behavioral errors our parents made, we can consciously change our behavior because as adults our rational conscious selves are (hopefully) dominant and self-aware.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I was emotionally neglected and physically abused during my childhood and teen years. I was never aware of this. I just thought I had rather strict parents. Very cold mother and violent father. I haven't resolved all my issues (yet), which, I'm afraid, contributed to the disintegration of my marriage. My wife's issues were even worse and really amplified my fear of abandonment and my co-dependency. Together, we weren't really equipped for married life. I also know that these issues have somewhat impacted our children. They seem to be generally ok, but I would like to be closer to them. I guess it's never too late.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Tasorundo said:


> Then I watched how I became so much like him in an instant and have been working to change that for a long time.


Same here. I have inherited a lot from my father, bad temper included. I was never physically violent, though... I guess I experimented the that hell on my skin and I would never wish that to anybody. I lived in fear of my father. He terrorised me.


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## Cindywife (Nov 5, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> Same here. I have inherited a lot from my father, bad temper included. I was never physically violent, though... I guess I experimented the that hell on my skin and I would never wish that to anybody. I lived in fear of my father. He terrorised me.


Historically, mothers have been the one psychologists blame but I think having a bad father can be just as bad and sometimes worse.


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## MarmiteC (Jun 28, 2021)

I would agree to some extent we are shaped by our parents relationships and the environment we grew up in. My parents celebrated 46 years this year after having a shotgun wedding when my Mum was 16 and pregnant with my brother. My Father is ex military and they have been through some very turbulent times.

I used to admire their marriage and ability to stick together, but now I see that it has unfortunately led to a very lonely life for them both. My marriage was similar in some respects, and seeing individually their loneliness, I realised I didn't want that for me.

What I think shaped me more, and possibly too much, was my military child upbringing. I've always described myself as good with change. Moving schools and making new friends every 2 years was easy for me. As an adult, if I don't like something I simply move on. (Ok, maybe not simply, but I'm not afraid to take that step.) And now that leads me to question whether I embrace change too much and am not able to ever fully commit as a result... still something I'm trying to work out.



Cindywife said:


> I have slow processing speed (never tested) but it certainly would explain a lot of my issues


Can you elaborate on this Cindy? What are the issues?


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

In Absentia said:


> Same here. I have inherited a lot from my father, bad temper included. I was never physically violent, though... I guess I experimented the that hell on my skin and I would never wish that to anybody. I lived in fear of my father. He terrorised me.


He was never violent towards me, outside of a spanking when younger. He had quite a temper though, and I watch my older brother (who was a pretty bad kid in his own right) bear the brunt of it. I did not engage with him for a long period of time. He did try and build a bridge there as I got older, by sharing hobbies and doing stuff with me.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Tasorundo said:


> He did try and build a bridge there as I got older, by sharing hobbies and doing stuff with me.


Interesting... my father "demanded" attention... he never tried to build any bridges. He could not see it. He thought I grew up to be a good boy because he was strict with me (and beat me). He died a few years ago. I was agreeable to him, but never spent much time with him. I hated my parents, to the point I moved to a different country. When he died (a painful death), I felt a big relief... horrible thing to say, but true.


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

In Absentia said:


> Interesting... my father "demanded" attention... he never tried to build any bridges. He could not see it. He thought I grew up to be a good boy because he was strict with me (and beat me). He died a few years ago. I was agreeable to him, but never spent much time with him. I hated my parents, to the point I moved to a different country. When he died (a painful death), I felt a big relief... horrible thing to say, but true.


There was no abuse in our home, just a temper, and a conflict avoidant mom. He was not a bad father, just strict, had a temper, and no was the default answer for everything.

That is what I try to work on most with my son, not being quick to anger, and trying to find ways to say yes to things.


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## Cindywife (Nov 5, 2021)

MarmiteC said:


> I would agree to some extent we are shaped by our parents relationships and the environment we grew up in. My parents celebrated 46 years this year after having a shotgun wedding when my Mum was 16 and pregnant with my brother. My Father is ex military and they have been through some very turbulent times.
> 
> I used to admire their marriage and ability to stick together, but now I see that it has unfortunately led to a very lonely life for them both. My marriage was similar in some respects, and seeing individually their loneliness, I realised I didn't want that for me.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry your parents felt lonely together. Your ability to embrace change might be very healthy.

My issues are a bit difficult to talk about so I'll only share a bit. Growing up my parents were going through a lot with their own issues and situational issues. I struggled in school and both my academic and independent skills weren't addressed and nurtured in a healthy way. In school it always took me much longer than most to understand material (not everything) but enough to make it a problem. I learned ways to "beat the system" but the core issues didn't go away. This has led me to be unable to perform at different jobs. Production is always an issue. Intelligence isn't an issue, I have a masters. However, higher education didn't transfer in being able to keep a job. That's all I want to share for now.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Tasorundo said:


> That is what I try to work on most with my son, not being quick to anger, and trying to find ways to say yes to things.


I never got angry with my children. Maybe when they were really young, but I could not be angry with them as teenagers. Been there. And I've gone the opposite to my parents, whose answers were mostly "no": I'm very liberal with them. I just get annoyed when I cook and they turn up too late and the food is ruined... well, not quite, but after I spend 3 hours cooking I want them to eat it straightaway, at its best!


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

My childhood was a mixed bag. My parents occasionally had nasty fights. Usually verbal, but my dad hit my mom twice, once when I was 12, and she took me and we left for a motel, where he eventually found us. It was all upsetting. I was paralyzed when they were fighting. I would go back to my room, but it was as if they expected me to pretend I didn't hear it or something. I would just shut down in fear. After my dad hit my mom, when he would get up to go to the restroom in the night and was gone too long, I'd creep into his closet and see if he took his rifle with him in case he was going to the other room to hurt my mom. My mom had a sharp tongue herself and was kind of hypercritical of me. My whole family talked over one another, mostly the mom and sibling and myself. If you wanted to say something, the only way to be heard was raise your voice, which created a bad habit that I mostly overcame once I didn't live there anymore. But I do still talk over people sometimes, and my sister still does it constantly. 

The other side is my mom took good care of us, and my dad did too. My dad was funny when he wasn't in a rage, but he had some boundary issues and a porn collection (magazines). The early ones were particularly horrendous and definitely had an effect on me, and no man needs to be reading about Nazis raping women and getting off on it. That's what the early ones were like. Don't ever think children don't know what's in every nook and cranny in your house and in your garage and anywhere. They always do. 

We were most peaceful when talking about the pets, I think, and it's little wonder I like pets more than people. 

I never wanted kids. I'm not sure if part of it was hormonal, but even as a little girl, I didn't like the doll my mom got me. I think my overall impression was just that my mom had a pretty dull life of housekeeping and cooking. She took great care of us, but she didn't enjoy interacting that much with the kids, so that's probably where some of it came from. My dad was more affectioniate that way. My mom had grown up in a home of 13 kids in the middle of nowhere with no electricity or plumbing, so she'd done her time with kids already. It was pre-birth control for her. I do think she'd have had a couple anyway as that was expected in those years. None of her sisters had more than one or two kids, and I'm sure it's because they had to babysit so much to help take care of the many siblings. 

The good side of my mom being kind of aloof like that is that having grown up in the wild herself, kids running amuck in the wilderness rolled right off her back, so I had a tremendous amount of freedom as a child, which gave me most of the strength I have needed to navigate life to this day. The sometimes unpleasant household was something I at least had an escape from. I could go off into the fields afoot or on a pony or scooter. 

That's why when she tried to leave my dad when I was 12 it upset me so much because she would have taken me to a suburb. I wouldn't have had any escape, so I feel bad that I told her I didn't want to leave the acreage and she just stayed. I feel guilt about it, but as an adult, I explained it to her and what she said is she didn't know the fighting upset me so much. Only thing is, when she finally did divorce, after the girls were gone and the chihuahua died, she actually got the acreage and lived there for a few years by herself. My dad had his old 3-car-garage where he hobbied at bodywork there and it upset him terribly and he asked if he could live in a trailer on the lot, but of course she said no. I guess that must have been the most expedient division of property at the time, but really, my dad should have had that acreage. She didn't want to live there anyway. She eventually moved to a small town where she had relatives. My dad went downhill all the way. I didn't realize how much restraint my mom had over my dad until they divorced. He just went off the deep end drinking and doing smarmy things. It was a steady decline, and he had full dementia for 15 years before his 93-year-old body gave out. Tough old bird. 

I think the best fix for getting rid of the bugs from childhood is simply being social so you can see where you differ from other people. You know, the herd will correct bad behavior. It doesn't work if you only have one good friend who is just like you! 

I recreated myself entirely, but I have parts of my parents in me and always will have. They had their reasons for being like they were too. I think maybe they did pretty well at keeping it together most of the time all things considered.


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## Cindywife (Nov 5, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> My childhood was a mixed bag. My parents occasionally had nasty fights. Usually verbal, but my dad hit my mom twice, once when I was 12, and she took me and we left for a motel, where he eventually found us. It was all upsetting. I was paralyzed when they were fighting. I would go back to my room, but it was as if they expected me to pretend I didn't hear it or something. I would just shut down in fear. After my dad hit my mom, when he would get up to go to the restroom in the night and was gone too long, I'd creep into his closet and see if he took his rifle with him in case he was going to the other room to hurt my mom. My mom had a sharp tongue herself and was kind of hypercritical of me. My whole family talked over one another, mostly the mom and sibling and myself. If you wanted to say something, the only way to be heard was raise your voice, which created a bad habit that I mostly overcame once I didn't live there anymore. But I do still talk over people sometimes, and my sister still does it constantly.
> 
> The other side is my mom took good care of us, and my dad did too. My dad was funny when he wasn't in a rage, but he had some boundary issues and a porn collection (magazines). The early ones were particularly horrendous and definitely had an effect on me, and no man needs to be reading about Nazis raping women and getting off on it. That's what the early ones were like. Don't ever think children don't know what's in every nook and cranny in your house and in your garage and anywhere. They always do.
> 
> ...


I'm glad you had the animals for comfort. I never wanted kids either but I did love dolls.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Jeffsmith35 said:


> In the absence of knowing how to act in a given situation, we default to the way we saw our parents act in that situation. It's subconscious programming, but if we acknowledge the behavioral errors our parents made, we can consciously change our behavior because as adults our rational conscious selves are (hopefully) dominant and self-aware.


Most folks growing up do, some don't. Mostly that's not my default because of strife and issues when young. Many situations are the starting point of, don't do that...


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I'll go the positive route.

My mom told me I could do anything and she believed it.

She also loved me the best she knew how to.

I did learn a few things not to do from her however.😉


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Cindywife said:


> Your first experience with other people are your parents or caregivers. They shape your ideas on how ppl interact and they affect how you perceive yourself and others.
> 
> If your parents had a chaotic marriage filled with fighting, divorce and disruption then that is your guide. My parents divorced early and I only learned how to have a healthy relationship from years of conflict resolution, mistakes and self-education.
> 
> I find myself struggling to be a good wife and a good person from lack of a stable upbringing. I try to reparent myself everyday but it's not easy. Plus, I suspect, I have slow processing speed (never tested) but it certainly would explain a lot of my issues. If anyone has had similar issues to these and know of ways I can improve myself I'd like to hear your suggestions. 💗


Hi Cindy,
Great topic, thanks for starting it and sharing.

My parents were so different from each other, but I can see the things I inherited from each of them, good and bad. My father was a serial cheat, alcoholic and abuser who died without apologizing for abandoning me and starting a new family. My mother worked hard to support us, since he didn't pay a dime of child support and she wanted nothing from him although she never prevented him from having a relationship with me. She's a loving, kindhearted, generous woman but she never wanted a relationship with another man after him.

I never knew my father as a person, he chose to focus on his new family, and had to after his AP/wife left him with the kids while pregnant for another man. I inherited his looks, intelligence and charm, however, I go out of my way not to intentionally hurt others. I didn't want to be like him in his callous disregard for other people's emotions.

My mom moved back home, so I grew up in a loving, stable home with everything I ever needed.The irony is I married a man exactly like my father, even though I tried so hard not to , he had everyone in both our families fooled for almost 20 years. Thankfully, I decided a long time ago I never wanted children, so that cycle ends with me. 

Although my childhood was happy for the most part, there were traumatic events involving my father I had to get over. I dealt with rage issues when I was younger, and started being reckless to the point of being masochistic (burns, broken bones, etc). When I was 14, I realized holding onto the anger and pain was only hurting me, so I learned how to let go of things and people I could not change. 

That has served me well throughout life, it's how I can move on and be open to new things and experiences no matter what. What's the worst that could happen, right? 😆 My family is rather traditional, but also conflict avoidant while I prefer to speak my mind and hash things out. I suppose I'm more tolerant of that dynamic even while being frustrated by it because it's familiar. 

Why is is so hard to break cycles you know are no good for you when you know what to do? It's so frustratingly illogical. Does anyone even have a normal family dynamic? What does that even look like? I've observed people from all walks of life in several cultures and countries and everyone of them seemed to have their special brand of ****ed up.


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## Cindywife (Nov 5, 2021)

TXTrini said:


> Hi Cindy,
> Great topic, thanks for starting it and sharing.
> 
> My father was a serial cheat, alcoholic and abuser who died without apologizing for abandoning me and starting a new family.
> ...


I've befriended so many women who had bad dads. It's probably because I couldn't relate to women who had good ones. My dad was similar in some ways to yours. He's still alive. I haven't spoken to him in about ten years. He's bad news so I keep away.

I'm not sure if anyone has a normal family dynamic.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

My sister and I moved to different countries away from our parents! 

We didn't mean to fall in love with men from different countries, but in a subconscious level, I think things happen for a reason. 

My parents have always drained me emotionally. Both have deep emotional issues they haven't been able to overcome. 

In summary, my dad is passive aggressive, emotionally unavailable. He cheated on my mom. My mom is codependent and very sensitive. I wonder if my dad is in the spectrum. My mom is very supportive but also needs a lot of emotional support, more than I've ever needed. They have never gotten along well, but they are still together. I don't know how!

I was always mesmerized by other people's relationships. I observed my classmates parent's relationships and I decided to keep them as my role model. 

I have to say I have a happy marriage because I live far from home. I love my parents and I appreciate what they gave me and the sacrifices they made to provide for us. 

When I was younger I felt some resentment towards them, but now that I'm older, I'm a parent, and I realized they used the tools available to them to raise my siblings and I. They did what they could, and I'm thankful for that. They tried to break their own cycle of family abuse and other issues. 

Sometimes I say things my mom used to say. Sometimes I'm not emotional available just like my dad. I'm also trying to break the cycle and it's hard!!!


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> I'll go the positive route.
> 
> My mom told me I could do anything and she believed it.
> 
> ...


Same here, from both my parents. 

Sure, there's things they did that I wouldn't as a parent, and vice versa, but overall the boys and I had great parents and a wonderful childhood. We are very lucky.


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## gaius (Nov 5, 2020)

I've seen enough people who have never met one parent, who then ended up just like that parent, to wager that DNA makes much more of a difference than whatever example was set for you. You inherit behavior just like you do eye color.

As far as you go Cindy you've mentioned your husband prefers you don't work. So if you've inherited job averse DNA from somewhere and put yourself in a situation where your mate prefers to support you then why on earth would you be productive at work? Nothing is driving you to be. Not situation, not genetics. The one thing I don't understand is why you seem to feel guilty about it, like you've failed somehow and it's something you need to improve.

My wife was adopted and never met either of her birth parents. As we both get older I think some of the social conditioning that drove her when she was younger is wearing off and I'm seeing more of her true self than anyone ever has. I love it. Can't get enough of it. But she seems to struggle with the idea she's doing something wrong by being herself. Heavy are the expectation chains society shackles on women nowadays. Hard to break free from.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

My upbringing was perfect but I have not met anyone who came from a felt they had a blessed childhood. My mom just turned 16 the month before I was born, my dad was a year older. My mother became pregnant 3 months after I was born. I spent a bit of time with my grandparents and my mom had the help of her younger siblings so I was very close to my mom's family. My dad had trouble right from the start, dad wanting to party. Mom had trouble with depression and really I didn't feel that she liked me much!!! I grew up with alot of hurt, I carried hard feelings for my mother especially for a very long time. Thru counseling I learned to turn that around and understand life from my mom's viewpoint, it helped me tremendously. I forgave my parents in my heart, no words ever spelled out. If you can reach a point of forgiveness I feel it helps.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

My grandparents had a special bond and I thought the world of my grandad. Parents didn't have a marriage that would demonstrate healthy communication and dynamic, plus add in long-term depression and anxiety experienced by my mother and other elements with my father. They did the best they could with the tools they had, however, divorced later on. From an early age, my mother instilled a sense of walking my own path rather than going along with the crowd. Add in a sprinkle of influence from my brother, who in his own way echoed the sentiment to just do my thing and guided with moments of savvy on occasion. Still, moving countries and a bit of shaking up the ole identity meant some emotional walls got built. On top of that, my mother considered me the 'strong one' that could shoulder all sorts, while her mental health debilitated her in some ways. Observing that also impacted me to take risks and embrace different experiences. It was a mixed bag... I turned out okay. Meanwhile, Batman's upbringing was a lot more challenging than mine. And which influenced his resilience. He'd also moved countries and so that feeling of being like fish out of water added to a commonality that we shared. We both have had to unlearn stuff, and being in this relationship together has been a heck of a learning in the best possible way. We have grown together and as individuals.

For me, learning that I don't need to be the (stand-alone) 'rock' was quite significant. Even simple ways of reaching out to ask for support at work was not something I would have done even a few years back. I learned how to directly communicate it and refreshingly discovered that people were willing to provide the support needed. Granted, I also selectively choose who to trust with such things. That opened me up more and more, bit at a time, whereby looking back now I almost feel like a different person to who I was and it helped me so much in roles that I have since experienced. While at the same time, if I'm thrown into the deep-end with something, I am fairly confident that I'll figure it out and can be quite adaptable to different situations and change. Eh, it's the mixed bag stuff. All of that comes around to how Batman and I interact as well. Another significant realization was really accepting that he loved me and I no longer needed the walls up; perhaps even more significant, was being right within and trusting myself that certain mechanisms were no longer needed. It's hard to summarize and capture the seemingly simple sentiments that come across like bumper stickers, yet takes constant and worthwhile attention.

However, to wrap it up in a bumper sticker way for kicks n giggles, what I consciously consider in relationship with others is knowing my intention (and essentially trying not to be a d-head) and expressing what I feel even if it comes out awkward.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Cindywife said:


> I'm sorry your parents felt lonely together. Your ability to embrace change might be very healthy.
> 
> My issues are a bit difficult to talk about so I'll only share a bit. Growing up my parents were going through a lot with their own issues and situational issues. I struggled in school and both my academic and independent skills weren't addressed and nurtured in a healthy way. In school it always took me much longer than most to understand material (not everything) but enough to make it a problem. I learned ways to "beat the system" but the core issues didn't go away. This has led me to be unable to perform at different jobs. Production is always an issue. Intelligence isn't an issue, I have a masters. However, higher education didn't transfer in being able to keep a job. That's all I want to share for now.


It would be interesting to understand, when/if you're comfortable to share, how this plays out for you in practical terms in the workplace.

The mention of forgiveness has been raised, which I think is important. Along with boundaries and learning/unlearning. And I personally value creativity as an outlet. For others it might be fitness or nature and such. Something I am extremely grateful for growing up is my parents support for my brother and I to be involved with music. My rockiest times were in high school. Living with my mother, she was suicidal at that point. Father had moved out. As had my brother being older and natural progression. It was challenging to navigate and my mother and I had some explosive moments. As a form of escapism, I turned to both music and questionable 'activities'. However, with the opportunity of music and having it instilled to walk my own path, I recognized that questionable stuff was not the way to go. Consciously cut myself off from certain friends and other aspects as a form of self-protection and channeled my focus and energy more into music. Worked a job to pay for records, got interested in being a DJ, formed new friendships through the scene, and persisted to get myself on radio. That music interest led me to Batman and vice verse. Turns out, he kinda dug that I was doing my thing. Anyway... I digress... do you have any creative pursuits? I do feel that different forms of creativity can really help channel energy to a different and often reflective, healing, and more positive place.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I definitely have issues but I don’t think that they were really the fault of my parents. I had a very normal childhood and grew up in a town that my father’s family, generations back, had been one of the founders of. Everyone knew him through his business or his political office or his community activism. He had a considerable presence and I couldn’t be anonymous. My parents were happy with their roles there but I didn’t want that life. Soon after I married I left and never lived there again. The expectations from my parents of who I was supposed to be caused a lot of guilt that took a long time to free myself from but I did. The lesson I was slow to learn was that you have to be you.


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## Jamieboy (Jan 14, 2021)

I grew up in a family of strong independent women, my father was very laid back and passive. I think as a consequence I was taught by proxy to be overly trusting of women and people in general. I am successful in my work and hold a senior position, but have been taken advantage of in the past.

Ironically, I am attracted to strong independent women, but it wasn't until I met a laid back and passive woman that I managed to make a relationship last more than a couple of years


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## Cindywife (Nov 5, 2021)

gaius said:


> As far as you go Cindy you've mentioned your husband prefers you don't work. So if you've inherited job averse DNA from somewhere and put yourself in a situation where your mate prefers to support you then why on earth would you be productive at work? Nothing is driving you to be. Not situation, not genetics. The one thing I don't understand is why you seem to feel guilty about it, like you've failed somehow and it's something you need to improve.
> 
> My wife was adopted and never met either of her birth parents. As we both get older I think some of the social conditioning that drove her when she was younger is wearing off and I'm seeing more of her true self than anyone ever has. I love it. Can't get enough of it. But she seems to struggle with the idea she's doing something wrong by being herself. Heavy are the expectation chains society shackles on women nowadays. Hard to break free from.


I feel great shame about my lack of productivity when in school and at work. Nobody wants to feel less than and I always have. 

There was a point in our marriage when we needed my paycheck and I pretty much killed myself trying to churn one out. After so many failures and panic attacks we decided its best just to make it work on one income. I payed down our debt heavily when I was working so in time it became an option. 

We live a modest life but without the stress outside work created I have the cognitive energy to run a beautiful household. Luckily, I enjoy being a housewife and all the tasks involved. I take pride in my home and garden and love spending time with my dog.

You're correct: "Heavy are the expectation chains society shackles on women nowadays. Hard to break free from."


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## Cindywife (Nov 5, 2021)

heartsbeating said:


> It would be interesting to understand, when/if you're comfortable to share, how this plays out for you in practical terms in the workplace.
> 
> The mention of forgiveness has been raised, which I think is important. Along with boundaries and learning/unlearning. And I personally value creativity as an outlet. For others it might be fitness or nature and such. Something I am extremely grateful for growing up is my parents support for my brother and I to be involved with music. My rockiest times were in high school. Living with my mother, she was suicidal at that point. Father had moved out. As had my brother being older and natural progression. It was challenging to navigate and my mother and I had some explosive moments. As a form of escapism, I turned to both music and questionable 'activities'. However, with the opportunity of music and having it instilled to walk my own path, I recognized that questionable stuff was not the way to go. Consciously cut myself off from certain friends and other aspects as a form of self-protection and channeled my focus and energy more into music. Worked a job to pay for records, got interested in being a DJ, formed new friendships through the scene, and persisted to get myself on radio. That music interest led me to Batman and vice verse. Turns out, he kinda dug that I was doing my thing. Anyway... I digress... do you have any creative pursuits? I do feel that different forms of creativity can really help channel energy to a different and often reflective, healing, and more positive place.


My mom would and still makes suicidal gestures I know how that can affect a daughter. I understand wanting to escape from a situation that seems out of control. No child should feel that way.

I do have lots of creative outlets in my home which keep me sane. Landscaping and decorating and now cooking are ways that keep me occupied.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

I believe everyone that is saying you need to take responsibility for yourself despite what your childhood was like is correct. I joined the Marines when I was 17 to get away from my family situation. I learned so many valuable lessons while in, it changed the person that I was. I took responsibility for my life and actions.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

Cindywife said:


> There was a point in our marriage when we needed my paycheck and I pretty much killed myself trying to churn one out. After so many failures and panic attacks we decided its best just to make it work on one income.


What were you doing to give you panic attacks?

My mom didn't finish high school. She was never diagnosed, but I think she has a learning disability. Her worse memories are from school. It was very hard for her to memorize things. She has terrible spelling. She's very creative at decorating and cooking. She has tried to make cakes and sweets to sell, but she gets super anxious and irritable while making them. I don't understand why she gets so crazy insecure when everyone knows she's good at it. She needs a lot of reassurance and it's exhausting.

My dad is retired and and they both live off his SS and whatever retirement accounts he has. The problem is, my dad is not bringing home the same income he used to and that worries me. Inflation is high in my home country.

I could be home without working, but it really worries me not having SS or any retirement of my own. I believe the majority of women work not because of the expectations chains of society, but because they need the paycheck to survive and retire.

I don't know what your plans are for the future, but there are things out there you could do at your own pace to bring in money. I'm self employed, I work when I want. I'm home when needed, and bring in extra money for our family too. There are options out there!


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

100% agree on parental modeling. My wife had a terrible and traumatic childhood and it still shines through today and she is working on it. From her Dad she got verbal abuse and low self esteem and her mom parentified her at as a teenager. Consequences are she’s a matriarch hyper focused on family and constantly hyper vigilant for emotional problems at home and in her job as a social worker. I liken it to the “tracking radar” many guys have WRT women, it’s just hardwired on. 

It has costs to our marriage thru very low emotional intimacy. From her Dad, she can’t take any criticism at all which makes honest conversations difficult as she’s very conflict avoidant but when it’s game on, she’ll fight to the death. She has a lot of shame and does not want to discuss much and consequently only is interested in any red flags in me. 

My folks were fine minus my moms mental health issues. She underfunctioned why constantly nagging my Dad and he would blow up. I can’t imagine they had any emotional intimacy. Affection seemed awkward for them.


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## Cindywife (Nov 5, 2021)

aaarghdub said:


> 100% agree on parental modeling. My wife had a terrible and traumatic childhood and it still shines through today and she is working on it. From her Dad she got verbal abuse and low self esteem and her mom parentified her at as a teenager. Consequences are she’s a matriarch hyper focused on family and constantly hyper vigilant for emotional problems at home and in her job as a social worker. I liken it to the “tracking radar” many guys have WRT women, it’s just hardwired on.
> 
> It has costs to our marriage thru very low emotional intimacy. From her Dad, she can’t take any criticism at all which makes honest conversations difficult as she’s very conflict avoidant but when it’s game on, she’ll fight to the death. She has a lot of shame and does not want to discuss much and consequently only is interested in any red flags in me.
> 
> My folks were fine minus my moms mental health issues. She underfunctioned why constantly nagging my Dad and he would blow up. I can’t imagine they had any emotional intimacy. Affection seemed awkward for them.


I have a lot in common with your wife. You must be a very nurturing husband, like mine. 

We do balance each other out. He's had to put up with my emotional dysregulation over the years and I had to put up with his bad temper. LOL


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## Cindywife (Nov 5, 2021)

pastasauce79 said:


> What were you doing to give you panic attacks?
> 
> My mom didn't finish high school. She was never diagnosed, but I think she has a learning disability. Her worse memories are from school. It was very hard for her to memorize things. She has terrible spelling. She's very creative at decorating and cooking. She has tried to make cakes and sweets to sell, but she gets super anxious and irritable while making them. I don't understand why she gets so crazy insecure when everyone knows she's good at it. She needs a lot of reassurance and it's exhausting.
> 
> ...


Being pushed to do something that's unrealistic for my capabilities will often put me in a panic. I always try my best and sometimes it _isn't_ good enough.

In the future, I might explore self-employment. I often think what could I do to bring in extra income. Right now, I need to work on gaps in my homemaking skills. My cooking is getting better and thanks to YouTube I can pretty much fix anything.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Cindywife said:


> I feel great shame about my lack of productivity when in school and at work. Nobody wants to feel less than and I always have.
> 
> There was a point in our marriage when we needed my paycheck and I pretty much killed myself trying to churn one out. After so many failures and panic attacks we decided its best just to make it work on one income. I payed down our debt heavily when I was working so in time it became an option.
> 
> ...





Cindywife said:


> Being pushed to do something that's unrealistic for my capabilities will often put me in a panic. I always try my best and sometimes it _isn't_ good enough.
> 
> In the future, I might explore self-employment. I often think what could I do to bring in extra income. Right now, I need to work on gaps in my homemaking skills. My cooking is getting better and thanks to YouTube I can pretty much fix anything.


I was very much like you, Cindy...very well educated , issues managing stress while working. I didn't work for most of my marriage, at first it wasn't legal to, by then I'd become the supportive partner. I handled everything at home, allowing my exH to advance his career without having to worry about anything else, we were a team. I started working after he was laid off, and had a really difficult time coping. I was juggling work, home, health issues. 

Although I agree, there is social pressure for women to be self supporting and many people look down on housewives, it is dangerous to be one nowadays. My own experience left me susceptible to multiple "I told you sos" from so many people, when I found myself having to start from scratch at 40 with limited work experience. 

I worked remotely as a travel agent after my exH was laid off. It was hard because I was still expected to do everything at home, especially when he started working again, despite working overtime and dealing with serious health issues. 

I don't think anyone maliciously judges you for staying at home, more like they don't want to preach gloom and doom. Hopefully, you won't share my experience, but there's no freaking way I'd remarry and be a housewife again. I've been off my anxiety meds a few years, but developed other coping mechanisms... aromatherapy, regular massages etc. I went back to school to transition to a different career since dealing with rude people is not for me (I lost it one day on a woman who wouldn't STFU and was expecting to be fired) . 

Maybe you can look into contractor positions, since you have a masters degree. I'm not trying to be negative about your lifestyle and marriage, but it's really dangerous to depend on another person's support. It's great when things are good, but so tenuous if something changes for that person, they'll get rid of you without a second thought as to how you helped them build a life.


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## Cindywife (Nov 5, 2021)

TXTrini said:


> I was very much like you, Cindy...very well educated , issues managing stress while working. I didn't work for most of my marriage, at first it wasn't legal to, by then I'd become the supportive partner. I handled everything at home, allowing my exH to advance his career without having to worry about anything else, we we're a team. I started working after he lost he was laid off, and had a really difficult time coping. I was juggling work, home, health issues.
> 
> Although I agree, there is social pressure for women to be self supporting and many people look down on housewives, it is dangerous to be one nowadays. My own experience left me susceptible to multiple "I told you sos" from so many people, when I found myself having to start from scratch at 40 with limited work experience.
> 
> ...


I get what you're saying. If things go south I'll have to figure out something at that time. Right now, I'm taking it one day at a time and trying to be a good person and helping my husband with whatever he needs. Plus, my moms health is deteriorating, she'll probably move in soon and that will bring all new challenges. 

I try to appreciate the peaceful moments with my dog.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Cindywife said:


> I get what you're saying. If things go south I'll have to figure out something at that time. Right now, I'm taking it one day at a time and trying to be a good person and helping my husband with whatever he needs. Plus, my moms health is deteriorating, she'll probably move in soon and that will be all new challenges. I try to appreciate the peaceful moments with my dog. LOL.


Oh boy, my mom moved in temporarily to help me after my last surgery (my ex suggested it!) a few months before **** hit the fan. Just be careful, OK love? Noone ever thinks anything bad can happen to them or the person who spoke vows with you can be callous until it happens. 

Enjoy your life, but have a backup plan, even if it's some **** you money socked away. I know that'll probably piss off a lot of men, but when **** goes down, no matter how smart you are, it's horrible to be in the thick of it with no plan.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Cindywife said:


> My mom would and still makes suicidal gestures I know how that can affect a daughter. I understand wanting to escape from a situation that seems out of control. No child should feel that way.
> 
> I do have lots of creative outlets in my home which keep me sane. Landscaping and decorating and now cooking are ways that keep me occupied.


Agreed and I'm sorry that you are experiencing this.

After making changes with the way I interact with her, which was a few years ago now, she apologized for not being there for me during her 'hell-hole' depression years of mental imbalance, as she puts it. I told her I'd turned out alright and not to worry about it. She laughed and agreed. I expressed that I didn't have the mentors I needed at that age but it was what it was and I've dealt with that. I expressed that it had shaped my life in certain ways. The positive is that I feel I've stepped out and embraced life, tried new things, at times been bold, not wanting to be held back by fear, anxiety or negativity, that I've chosen some good paths for myself, and observing her journey also helped me to develop a sense of empathy and understanding about aspects of mental health. I also recognize it was the depression; that she isn't the depression and she herself needed support. As much as I appreciated her wanting to apologize, I didn't need it. Instead I suggested that she forgive herself and that I'm thankful she managed to pull herself through. She admitted that she'd been carrying guilt for years and felt she could finally let it go. I'd had no idea she was feeling that. She is also a deeply compassionate and kind person who, at times, has greatly supported me. It's a mixed bag.

Similarly, yet much earlier on, my father who is a man of few words, told me on my 21st birthday how sorry he was that he hadn't been there for me growing up. He was upset as he shared this. I had also told him not to worry, and I'd turned out okay.


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## Cindywife (Nov 5, 2021)

heartsbeating said:


> Agreed and I'm sorry that you are experiencing this.
> 
> After making changes with the way I interact with her, which was a few years ago now, she apologized for not being there for me during her 'hell-hole' depression years of mental imbalance, as she puts it. I told her I'd turned out alright and not to worry about it. She laughed and agreed. I expressed that I didn't have the mentors I needed at that age but it was what it was and I've dealt with that. I expressed that it had shaped my life in certain ways. The positive is that I feel I've stepped out and embraced life, tried new things, at times been bold, not wanting to be held back by fear, anxiety or negativity, that I've chosen some good paths for myself, and observing her journey also helped me to develop a sense of empathy and understanding about aspects of mental health. I also recognize it was the depression; that she isn't the depression and she herself needed support. As much as I appreciated her wanting to apologize, I didn't need it. Instead I suggested that she forgive herself and that I'm thankful she managed to pull herself through. She admitted that she'd been carrying guilt for years and felt she could finally let it go. I'd had no idea she was feeling that. She is also a deeply compassionate and kind person who, at times, has greatly supported me. It's a mixed bag.
> 
> Similarly, yet much earlier on, my father who is a man of few words, told me on my 21st birthday how sorry he was that he hadn't been there for me growing up. He was upset as he shared this. I had also told him not to worry, and I'd turned out okay.


Sounds like you turned out great! And your life might have been less interesting with a different type of mom. Also, it's nice that you have a loving relationship with *both* parents which is rare.

My mom will always be going through a depression but she's extremely functional. Growing up I knew something was off with her but I didn't have anything to compare it to (except TV.) She's very creative and theatrical at times and can make anyone laugh. Her heart is in the right place and that makes a difference.


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## gaius (Nov 5, 2020)

Cindywife said:


> I feel great shame about my lack of productivity when in school and at work. Nobody wants to feel less than and I always have.
> 
> There was a point in our marriage when we needed my paycheck and I pretty much killed myself trying to churn one out. After so many failures and panic attacks we decided its best just to make it work on one income. I payed down our debt heavily when I was working so in time it became an option.
> 
> We live a modest life but without the stress outside work created I have the cognitive energy to run a beautiful household. Luckily, I enjoy being a housewife and all the tasks involved. I take pride in my home and garden and love spending time with my dog.


Honestly Cindy, I run into stupid and incapable people all the time. They're everywhere, like a zombie horde. You don't strike me as one. If you're not performing at work or school it's probably because part of you doesn't want to. Not because you're incapable or less than anyone else.

Your husband should apologize for putting you in that position to begin with. For putting that burden on you. Some women are fine taking on masculine tasks in a relationship, others aren't. There's no shame whatsoever if you're not. Hopefully you'll find a way to let that go at some point. Good luck.


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