# Currently Separated Almost 8 Weeks (Warning LONG THREAD)



## TroubldHusband (Nov 29, 2011)

*New Here and Separated Almost 8 Weeks. (Warning LONG THREAD)*

So... this is probably going to be pretty lengthy, so bear with me and please read it through, and any feedback I receive will be appreciated. I'm having a tough time with this and I'm very hurt at the moment and not sure what to do. 

My wife and I have been together since we were 14 years old. We've been married 8 years, 9 in March. I'm now 27 and she's 26, will be 27 in January. We have two children, an 11 year old daughter and a 4 year old daughter. We've spent half our lives together basically... We've weathered through so many ups and downs in our life together so far, and probably experienced more in our 27 years than many have in 50 or 60 years... Right now she's moved out with our two kids and we've been separated for what will be 8 weeks on Friday.

There are multiple contributing factors in why we're currently separated. The boiling point was a Friday night, 8 weeks ago this coming Friday. We went out together for a very close friend's engagement party. I got really drunk and she got drunk as well and I got very jealous and uncomfortable with the way she was acting, which turned into me getting angry and blowing up on her at the bar in front of all our friends outside. Looking back I should have just told her that I was uncomfortable with the way she was acting, but I was really drunk, and logic, and calm, collected, thoughts were not part of my repertoire at that point in the night. I consider myself to have a drinking problem, but not the typical alcoholism I guess you could say. I'm not an alcoholic in the sense I drink every day or drink often. It would typically only be once a week (a couple beers or drinks while watching a sports game with friends), or twice a week at the most. In my opinion, I'm an alcoholic in that I don't know where to draw the line between drunk enough, and too drunk. There are nights where I drink to the point that I black out, which this night was one of those. We were both pretty drunk at around 1am when we left the first bar. I understand now, which I didn't then, that we should have just gone home after leaving the bar that the engagement party was at. A couple more of our close friends didn't get to the first bar until about 11:30pm, though, and wanted to go out to another one. So we did... foolishly.

This was the boiling point IMO.

Now I'm going to get into my past and some of the history that I feel led up to this point. I come from a household where my parents were constantly at each others' throats. They yelled, screamed, and called each other names. I guess seeing all that as a kid I kind of picked up on that being acceptable behavior for a husband and wife. My father is a recovering alcoholic (he was an everyday rum and coke drinker, and it almost killed him, and he's been sober for a few years now). I have my mother's temper, which is very quick to come out, and I consider it very easy to ignite. This is something which I'm working very hard on controlling at this point. So basically, when my wife and I would argue, it would always lead to me getting angrier and angrier because she's always been very closed off with her feelings and I say lots of things, nasty things... just to get some kind of emotional reaction out of her to some degree, because she's always had trouble with her emotions (stems from some issues from her past/childhood IMO). Now I know this is not acceptable. I would consider it verbal abuse on my part, and it's something I'm working at to change harder than anything I've ever done. I've spent the last 4 or 5 years tearing her down emotionally and hurting her self-esteem and confidence, which I know it will take a long time for her, and me if given the chance, to repair the damage I did. On to me and my efforts over the past 7 1/2 weeks. I'm currently 100% sober. I haven't had a drink since that horrendous life-changing night. I'm feeling really good about it, and as I said before, I didn't drink all the time, so quitting hasn't been that hard for me. I don't feel AA is necessary at this point due to the fact that I was never a huge everyday drinker, just didn't know my limits, so the absence of the alcohol is not affecting me much. I quit smoking cigarettes 6 months ago cold turkey, which I also feel has led to things with our relationship getting worse. I also quit playing hockey a year and a half ago (something I did for 15 years and was a major part of my life as I played travel and was on the ice 5 or 6 days a week almost my entire life) due to a new job and traveling a lot, which I feel has also led to issues with our relationship.

The cigarettes were an outlet for stress relief. Normally I would get angry, go have a cigarette to calm down and relax a little, then come back inside the house and be better able to assess the situation and control my anger/temper so we could talk about it without the heated argument. The hockey was also a major stress relief/anger relief. It was a way to vent and take out my aggression on the ice, and also get the endorphins and adrenaline pumping, which was good stress/anxiety/frustration relief.

I feel the lack of those two things has contributed to my inability to control my temper as well as I did earlier on in our relationship, and I'm not making excuses for my behavior, just observations and background as to what has helped contribute to my wife and my own current relationship problems.

Now... I've read a lot of material over the past 8 weeks or so. I've read just about every website I can about separations, about controlling my temper, and trying to reconcile marriages. Currently I'm working on repairing my own problems, eliminating my own inner-demons, and rebuilding my own confidence and self-esteem. I feel like because I've been so down and depressed with myself (I've gained a ton of weight since I stopped playing hockey, almost 50lbs in 3 years) and things of that nature, that I've been trying to bring my wife down to my level. I'm working on becoming a happier, more positive person overall, and it seems to be working. I feel much better about myself over the last 3 or 4 weeks than I've felt in a long time. I know these are good things, and steps in the right direction for me.

Shortening this up a bit from the original...

Over the past 8 weeks we have good days and bad. If I leave her alone for a particular amount of time and don't try to push our relationship on her, then things get better, and I feel like the improvement gives me the grounds to approach the subject of our relationship again. Then it backfires. I've done nothing over the past 8 weeks but change myself for the better, and be the person she fell in love with. We still communicate quite a bit because of the kids and we still do things together occasionally. Our daughter's birthday was Sunday so the four of us went to lunch together. She plays some games with me on the phone (words with friends) that kind of thing. To me that says that she's thinking of me and still needs some kind of interaction with me, which is a positive thing. She's said she still loves me and always will... 

Now... my questions are, do I leave her alone completely, talk with her strictly about the kids, don't play the games with her on the phone, and generally just try to show her that I can get on with my life without her? Should I stop playing the games on the phones? I really need to know how to approach the situation at this point. I want her back and she is the only woman I have ever loved. Just read the 180 method and I think I'm going to give it a try. I've read a lot over the past 8 weeks on what I should be doing and although it goes against all my instincts I know that it is absolutely necessary to do these things (the 180 method on here is very similar to the information I've read in all the books and all over the web) and I feel like I've been doing a lot of what it's mentioned, but at the same time I've done some things on there that it says I shouldn't have. I guess we'll go from here and see what happens. It's definitely a very painful situation. It gets better day by day, though. I guess the best thing to do is to back off and leave her be and work on myself and leave her completely in the dark about myself then huh? Just based on some responses to everyone else' threads that I've been reading...


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## TroubldHusband (Nov 29, 2011)

Oh, and in the 12+ years together and 8+ years married, we have never separated, broken up, or anything before... For some more background.


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## maxter (May 24, 2011)

Please explain the separation arrangement. What happened after the argument at the bar? Did you guys split up that night or the next day? Did she pack up and leave you? Did she kick you out? Who has the kids? Just a bit more info would help.


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## TroubldHusband (Nov 29, 2011)

She packed up and left the next day after she got home from work. Told me she wants to be separated right now. Told me that she doesn't know how she'll feel in a week or a month or a couple months, but for now she wants us to work on ourselves and worry about being happy with ourselves. She has the kids, but we've agreed that we are switching off weekends and I see them basically anywhere from 2-4 days a week, depending on my work schedule, which is different than most people. I work 5 - 12hour days one week and then I'm off 5 days the next week. The way it works is I work Monday/Tuesday 5pm - 5am, then I'm off Wednesday/Thursday, and then work Friday/Saturday/Sunday 5pm -5am. Then the next week I'm off Monday/Tuesday, work Wednesday/Thursday 5pm -5am, and I'm off Friday/Saturday/Sunday, so the weeks I'm off 5 days I usually see them like 3 days or sometimes 4 days, whereas the weeks I work it's usually 1, possibly 2, because I don't really have much more time for anything other than working and sleeping that one week. 

I've discussed counseling with her on one of the "better weeks" we've had and it's been "maybe", but have only talked to her about it that once. I let her know I'm going to get in and see someone myself for my anger/jealousy issues.

I feel like she's not completely ready to throw in the towel on our relationship. We've spent almost half our lives together, and the way I see it, she has lots of support and her family has some money so if she wanted to make it final and go through the channels of getting a lawyer, and a legal separation or file for divorce she would have the financial backing to do it, and would have by now, yet she hasn't. She's talked about how nothing is set in stone right now, but for now we need to take some time apart and work on our own issues.

Really, I think I just need to stop pushing at her and basically wait for her to be ready to sit down and discuss our marriage and relationship problems, and until she's ready to do it, nothing is going to change. For now I think I need to just concentrate on myself and being happier/more positive/more confident in my own skin and let things fall into place. Many of people have told me that if I have faith in myself, faith in our love, and work on improving myself and conquering my own issues that everything else will fall into place. As I said, it seems like I leave her alone for a while and things seem to get better, but then I feel like I can push the subject with her a little bit because they've gotten better, and it just backfires on me and she shuts back down and it's back to the drawing board. I feel like the 180 method can really benefit me, and the way I see it at this point is I've tried everything else (the begging/pleading, which I know is what I shouldn't do, but I did for a while) and feel like there's nothing left to lose by trying something different. Everyone else in my life is telling me the same thing. Leave her be, let her think about what she's doing, let her wonder what I'm doing, let her wonder where I'm going or who I'm with, if I'm getting over her and moving on, and let her wonder if she's starting to lose me, and see where that goes. It's just tough with the holidays and not having her and my two girls home right now.


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## TroubldHusband (Nov 29, 2011)

The closer the Christmas holiday gets the tougher the days get... I know and understand that mainly my behavior (as well as some of hers) has put me in the position I'm in, but it still drives me nuts thinking about how I could have and should have done so many things differently... I was such a different person earlier on in our relationship. That's the man I want to be again... The man she fell in love with... I know it doesn't help to focus on the past, so I try not to, but the what if's are driving me nuts. I want to go back in the past and fix so many things and take back so many things that I've said and done. I guess all I can do, though, is concentrate on the future.


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## TroubldHusband (Nov 29, 2011)

Have had a few better days recently. I've backed off and I'm following the 180 method as best as I can. I printed it out and put it on my fridge and anytime I want to get in touch with her or I'm thinking about her I go read that and instantly feel better and stronger for it. 

I've gotten much better with not answering the phone calls or texts right away to leave her in the dark a little bit like she had been doing to me, and now she is starting to wonder what I'm doing. Today I didn't answer her text so she ended up driving to our condo and found that I wasn't even there, I was out with my sister's husband having dinner at a restaurant, at which point she called me some more trying to get in touch with me. 

She is getting more talkative and personal in the conversations we do have. Today she called to talk to me about our daughters because I was taking them overnight tonight because I had a change in my work schedule. On the phone she proceeded to just go on and on telling me about her day and what is going on with her and whatnot. I feel like that's a good thing, so I'm going to stick to what I've been doing and continue to concentrate solely on our daughters and improving myself. I feel a lot stronger than I was and I'm starting to regain my confidence in myself to be a good husband and good man, whether for her if we reconcile or for another relationship in my future. Exactly two months sober to the day as well! Life is looking good right now!


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

TroubldHusband said:


> I feel a lot stronger than I was and I'm starting to regain my confidence in myself to be a good husband and good man, whether for her if we reconcile or for another relationship in my future. Exactly two months sober to the day as well! Life is looking good right now!


Good for you! Hang in there.


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## TroubldHusband (Nov 29, 2011)

This is me said:


> Good for you! Hang in there.


Thanks! I feel good about everything right now. Like I've said before I feel like things can work between us, and seeing as how we've never separated or split up ever in the 12+ years we've been together I think it's only a matter of time before we look into reconciling our marriage. I think she needs her space to heal from the hurt I've caused her, and work on some of her own issues with her past and her emotions (she's always been very closed/walled up about her feelings) and I also need the time and space to change the things I was doing that were causing the hurt. She's supposed to rely on me for emotional support and to be her "rock" and it's something I haven't been, and something I want to be. Everything gets a little better and a little easier each day


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

TroubldHusband said:


> Thanks! I feel good about everything right now. Like I've said before I feel like things can work between us, and seeing as how we've never separated or split up ever in the 12+ years we've been together I think it's only a matter of time before we look into reconciling our marriage. I think she needs her space to heal from the hurt I've caused her, and work on some of her own issues with her past and her emotions (she's always been very closed/walled up about her feelings) and I also need the time and space to change the things I was doing that were causing the hurt. She's supposed to rely on me for emotional support and to be her "rock" and it's something I haven't been, and something I want to be. Everything gets a little better and a little easier each day


I hope it works for you. Can I ask your ages? My WAW is 47 which I believe is a part of her struggles with a MLC.


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## TroubldHusband (Nov 29, 2011)

I was 27 in October, she will be 27 in January. We've been together since we were 14, married since 18.


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## Crimsyn (Dec 4, 2011)

TroubldHusband said:


> Everything gets a little better and a little easier each day


I can't tell you how much that inspires & encourages me.  I'm glad to hear this! Definitely gives me hope in my marriage.


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

Hang in there. I believe we can all change for the better. Be strong and learn all you can about being a better spouse. I am still learning.


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## TroubldHusband (Nov 29, 2011)

Having one of the rough days that are inevitable at this point in my situation...

I'm doing everything I can to change and be a better man, husband, and better person overall. I'm worried that it's too little too late at this point. I don't know what to think anymore. I get such mixed signals/emotions from her and I'm really not sure what to do about it. I really want to repair our marriage, and get MC and try to fix things, but this may not be something she's interested in now, or ever... 

We've invested half our lives into this marriage and have two beautiful daughters together that are left in limbo with this just as much as I am. All they talk about when they're with me is coming home to THEIR home, the place they've lived for years, not their grandmother's second home... My wife has told our 11 year old daughter she "hopes it doesn't end in divorce" and that's the extent of what they've talked about in regards to the marriage. When I'm with her I try to stay positive and tell her we'll get through this rough spot, and no matter what happens I'll always love her, but from what my daughter has told me, my wife refuses to, and has not talked to her about it at all besides the one time in the first week we were separated. Nothing else, nothing about trying to work it out, nothing about divorce, just limbo. It's the same position I'm in. She's not sure if she wants to reconcile. She's not sure if my changing will be enough for her anymore. She's completely and totally unsure about the entire situation. My other daughter is being affected by this as well, but seeing as she's only 3 (4 at the end of December) she doesn't quite understand it all like our older daughter. It's definitely affecting her to the point where she cries for Mommy for a while when I pick the two of them up. There are times where she will wake up in the middle of the night crying and looking for Mommy when they stay overnight with me, and she tells me that she doesn't want to go home yet when I tell her I have to drop them back off with their Mom, and says to me "Why won't Mommy come here?" because when they're with me they're in the Home they lived in for years... It's tough to see. It's hard on me, I can only imagine what it's doing to them and what they're feeling...

It's been two months since we separated. I know I caused serious emotional distress and unhappiness on her part. I know she has to work on building back her own self-esteem and happiness, but I almost feel like my daughters and I deserve to have some kind of better answer than the ones we've been given... I try to stay positive, and most days I can, and I can believe and trust in my faith, and my love for her, and her love for me, but some days I just have a hard time with it all... Being stuck in between like this is such a terrible feeling...


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

Boy can I relate to the roller coaster heading downward, especially on these cold rainy cloudy Mondays. Hang in there. Do you have a support team? I am very fortunate to have many siblings and others on board to help me through this.

Sorry if you covered this, but have you asked her to do MC? I would highly recommend if she is on board that your choose one together and agree that you will only stay with one that you both agree on.

If she what she said to your daughter is true there is still hope.

Be strong!

Give her space and time.


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## TroubldHusband (Nov 29, 2011)

Thanks This Is Me. I do have some support from most my friends. All my friends tell us that we were highschool sweethearts, we're the perfect couple, and eventually we'll work things out. They support me and believe in the two of us working things out. My family has taken a different approach, and have been very stand-offish about it all. My mom has always tried to be way too involved in our marriage, tries to be with my older brother and his wife, and tries to be with my little sister and her husband. 

My mom wants what she feels is best for me, and lashes out because she sees her son being hurt and wants to protect me. My mom and wife were always very very close, so she's having a hard time understanding why my wife is doing what she is doing right now. She's a pessimist, and a very negative/angry person much of the time (which I believe has to do with never really recovering from losing her dad a long time ago, and then losing her mom to cancer just recently within the last couple years) 

My sister shares a personality with my mom. They're both the exact same person, just different ages. Very quick to lash out, very quick to anger, very negative about everything, always looking at the glass half empty instead of half full, just like my Mom. 

When I tell both my mom and her about my problems the reasons why my wife is doing what she's doing (because they also know how volatile of a personality I could be as well, they've seen my blowups) they immediately lash out at her for being the way she's being right now. Part of their acceptance of my behavior and unwillingness to see how I was being is the idea of it's the same situation I grew up in, and the reason why I felt it was acceptable behavior on my part to treat my wife the way I did. 

My parents were always arguing growing up. They would shut the door, but we could still hear them yell and scream and call each other names all the same. Both drank a lot. My mom not as much as my dad, but my dad was a full blown alcoholic, and it almost killed him a few years back. He's now sober for around 4 years. My mom has stopped drinking the way she did as well. They have a better, more stable, loving relationship now, but my mom is still the same pessimistic, negative, angry person all the time.

So in a nutshell, I've tried to limit how much support I try to allow myself to receive from my mom and sister. My brother's wife is very, very understanding. She came from a divorced household, and has been very supportive of my decisions and my ability to change myself. She's very close to me, and his been basically been my "rock" through this whole ordeal. She'll listen to me no matter what, give her opinion, and never pass judgement. She wants whatever I want, and whatever is best for me. She also was very, very close to my wife. They're like blood sisters they were that close. My father and I have always been very close, and we are still very close. I talk to him about stuff and he listens and gives me advice, but doesn't judge me for my decisions and thought process either. 

At this point all my support lies in friends, my brother's wife, and my dad. It's a good support system. I spend a lot of time with my dad, we hang out almost every day, and the days I don't spend with him watching movies, or BS'in or working on cars or fishing, or whatever, I spend with my friends keeping busy, who all support me in what I'm trying to do. They've all been great for me. I just wish my mom and sister could support me the way everyone else does.

Sorry for the novel lol. Lots to talk about on the support topic in my situation. 

As far as MC, I brought it up to my wife early on and it was "I don't know, I don't see that happening right now"

Then a few weeks ago I told her that I was going to get some IC myself and asked if she'd be comfortable sitting down with a MC at some point and it was "maybe". It's a very small step, a baby step, but seems to be positive and a baby step in the right direction...

When I mentioned MC to her again a week or two ago she had said "I thought you were going to get some IC first" and to me that says she wants to see some real effort on my part to change. That's where I'm currently at. Time to change myself as best as I can and have faith the the rest will all fall into place.

Only time will tell I guess. I think I'm in for a long road to recovery either way this goes, though.


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

TroubldHusband said:


> Then a few weeks ago I told her that I was going to get some IC myself and asked if she'd be comfortable sitting down with a MC at some point and it was "maybe". It's a very small step, a baby step, but seems to be positive and a baby step in the right direction...
> 
> When I mentioned MC to her again a week or two ago she had said "I thought you were going to get some IC first" and to me that says she wants to see some real effort on my part to change. That's where I'm currently at. Time to change myself as best as I can and have faith the the rest will all fall into place.
> 
> Only time will tell I guess. I think I'm in for a long road to recovery either way this goes, though.


That is good. Let her see you working at it and she may get on board. My comment to my W after she said she wanted to D was that if we were sick/ill/hurt/damaged we would go to a professional doctor for help. Our marriage is sick/ill/hurt/damaged, why wouldn't we give it the same professional help?

Not that logic has anything to do with how she feels, but I think it may have helped get her on board since she spends alot of time at doctors offices.


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## TroubldHusband (Nov 29, 2011)

This is me said:


> That is good. Let her see you working at it and she may get on board. My comment to my W after she said she wanted to D was that if we were sick/ill/hurt/damaged we would go to a professional doctor for help. Our marriage is sick/ill/hurt/damaged, why wouldn't we give it the same professional help?
> 
> Not that logic has anything to do with how she feels, but I think it may have helped get her on board since she spends alot of time at doctors offices.


My wife spends a ton of time at doctors as well! Both for herself, being a diabetic, as well as for our 4 year old daughter, who has numerous health issues. Maybe that's something I should try to tell her!

Our 4 year old daughter is off the charts growth wise. She is about the length of an 18 month old, and has just recently broke the 20 pound mark consistently. She has a rollercoaster ride month to month as far as her weight goes. My wife is small (5 feet even and maybe 110 lbs), but not like our 4 year old. Our 4 year old has thyroid issues for one, but that's not the reason for her lack of growth/weight gain. She's 100% happy other than the issues with her growth/weight. The sweetest little girl you'll ever see, and has no mental/cognitive/learning issues. She's just very small, and doctors can't seem to figure out why through 4 years of her life so far. No one has any answers for us. She's been to every specialist she could possibly see. Doctors have come in from all different parts of the midwest and are baffled because nothing seems wrong according to her tests. She seems to have a completely and totally undocumented issue. There are some things that they have tested her for and know for a fact she has, but nothing related to her height/weight. 

This is part of the reason why my wife is gone right now as well. She said that she's been handling all of these issues with her own health as well as our daughter's health on her own. I try to make her understand that if she wants me to go to work and bring home a paycheck and keep a job I can't be constantly requesting days off or calling in sick so I can go to the doctor with her. When I would try to do those things she would get mad at me for taking the day off work because "We need the money" and on the other hand, she seems to get upset/angry if I don't go with. Hard to reason out what she needs/wants without her telling me how she feels and how I can help. All I want to do is help her as much as possible. It's part of my changes that I'm making for myself as well as her; wanting to help her and be more of the "rock" that she needs me to be. I just need her to let me be that person and stop trying to do it all on her own. She's a very strong woman. One of the strongest I've ever known. Like I said, time will only tell at this point. Everyone seems to be telling me the same thing, that give it time, be patient, take care of yourself and she will see those changes. Hopefully they're all correct! Thanks for the idea, and the encouragement This Is Me.


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## Crimsyn (Dec 4, 2011)

Great advice This is Me about a marriage being sick/ill and demands professional help just as anyone who was sick or ill. Great way of thinking!

TroubledHusband, please have faith. Don't give up. You have been working so hard towards this. Two months may seem like a long time... but it's far from it. I've realized that this is going to be a long long process, sadly.  But don't give up. Keep at it! Continue with the 180 & bettering yourself.

I totally understand your frustration and confusion though. I really worry if my husband will ever change his mind. He seems pretty set in his ways... which is something I have a hard time understanding. You and I have both in such long relationships with our partners... how can the NOT try. You know? Just doesn't make sense to me. But you know... they have both been hurt quite badly and are trying to heal themselves. Like you said before... them seeing a better and positive change in OURSELVES will do wonders. Keep at it!!

I know some days are tougher than others. Just keep a positive mindset and do your best to smile even when your feel like you may lose it. Smile. And keep hope.


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## TroubldHusband (Nov 29, 2011)

Thanks Crimsyn! I stay positive, but there are inevitably going to be some bad days and some good  I would never give up on my wife, and hope she would never give up on me either! Time heals all. I keep my faith and positivity no matter what. Have to in order to get through the days. Thanks for the positive reinforcement, though! Appreciate it! 

I was around her some today because I had to work on our Lincoln that has some issues. It's sitting in the garage where she's staying because when I was traveling a lot I used the SUV to cart around tools and equipment, and she used the car. I have to get it to pass emissions so we can keep it registered here in Illinois. They won't let you renew your registration when it comes due unless it passes emissions, and the car has only 9 months left to be paid on it, so, despite her having a second car and being able to drive it (her mom's extra vehicle) I need to get it running right, pass emissions, so we can keep it registered and it can be driven.

She was different to some degree. I told her goodnight when I left, and that it was good seeing her, and she actually said to me "you too" which is something she really hasn't done up until now. She always seemed like she wanted to, but I kind of got the feeling it felt awkward for her, but today she said it, and I was kind of taken back and caught off guard by it. Felt good to hear it, though. 

Went from a rough day to a good day, actually :smthumbup:

Thanks for helping me to keep on keeping on! Keep your head up too! I know it can be depressing and is a complete and total emotional rollercoaster, but I've said it before and I'll say it again, things get better and better each and every day! 

I hit rock bottom a couple months ago and have been making my slow progression back up the cliff ever since!


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## Crimsyn (Dec 4, 2011)

TroubldHusband said:


> She was different to some degree. I told her goodnight when I left, and that it was good seeing her, and she actually said to me "you too" which is something she really hasn't done up until now. She always seemed like she wanted to, but I kind of got the feeling it felt awkward for her, but today she said it, and I was kind of taken back and caught off guard by it. Felt good to hear it, though.


That's great! Even the smallest of things can make the LARGEST impact on us. This is good news.  



TroubldHusband said:


> Thanks for helping me to keep on keeping on! Keep your head up too! I know it can be depressing and is a complete and total emotional rollercoaster, but I've said it before and I'll say it again, things get better and better each and every day!


You are most welcome! In a way, we're all in this together. I am so thankful to have found this forum. So many wonderful people here to help encourage us.  ..may you see improvement each and every day!


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## TroubldHusband (Nov 29, 2011)

So... I've been following the 180 lately as best as I can. Up until about a week ago I hadn't been. My wife and I would text a little bit, talk occasionally, and when we talked there were always somewhat long friendly discussions about our days and how they were going, what was going on in each others' lives, etc. I've stopped most of that. I'm keeping conversations on the phone straight and to the point, business-like, strictly about our children or things that absolutely have to be discussed, and avoiding the small-talk and personal conversation. I've also stopped playing games with her on our cell phones (words with friends) that type of thing, something we've been doing together for a long time prior to our separation, and continued to do through the past two months separated. I stopped that as well. The last game played out 4 or 5 days ago and I never started a new one. Now all the sudden she sent me an invitation to play... 

My question is, how do I go about this? Do I continue to follow the 180 and just ignore the invitation? Do I accept it and treat it as a sign that she needs some kind of interaction with me, despite our separation, and hope that it can help bring us closer to trying to reconcile? I mean... I can't really send her a message saying "Because we're separated and I'm trying to move on with my life, I feel like we shouldn't be playing these games anymore" can I? Having a tough time deciding what to do here... I can't open the application on my phone and play with my brother, Dad, sister-in-law or anyone else without either declining or accepting the invite from her game first... Not sure what to do in this situation... 

Any insight would be appreciated! Thanks!


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## allthegoodnamesaregone (Nov 18, 2011)

I don't know, they don't usually "need space" unless there's somebody waiting in the wings. I'd check for an EA if I were you....


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## TroubldHusband (Nov 29, 2011)

allthegoodnamesaregone said:


> I don't know, they don't usually "need space" unless there's somebody waiting in the wings. I'd check for an EA if I were you....


Not sure if you've read the rest of my story or not, but I'm about 99% positive there is nothing else going on right now as far as another man in her life. She left due to my verbal abuse over the last few years, my issues with my temper/anger/jealousy, and my inability to control any of those things. She honestly doesn't have time for even an EA, let alone a PA. She insists that another man/relationship is the last thing on her mind right now. She has stated that she's not interested in it and I feel obligated to trust her at this point because she's given me no indication or sign to even be suspicious of something going on. She's utilizing this time for her own self-esteem and to heal, is the way I see it. She has never been against me looking at her phone, email, or facebook account. Leading up to the separation I had access to all of it, and saw no signs of any kind of EA/PA whatsoever. I didn't check it all very often, but when I did, there was nothing out of the ordinary in any of it. She could be very good at hiding things, but I think that's a stretch considering she has to have some kind of interaction with someone via phone or email or facebook. It's really the only way she has to stay in touch with someone and I saw no signs of anything through any of these methods.

Her passwords have since changed, but only because of how insane/crazy I was going trying to access her stuff throughout the first couple weeks of our separation, thinking there had to be someone else, and it wasn't just my own behavior and issues that caused her to pack up and go, but over the past weeks I've come to the realization that I was an absolute monster and it's very easily understandable that she wanted out and away from me, just to escape me, and not to run into the arms of another man. She really doesn't have the time with a 4 year old with special needs, and 11 year old, and work and the fact that she's staying in a house where her mom and her mom's husband stay 4 or 5 days a week as well. It just seems to me there isn't opportunity for it.


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

TroubldHusband said:


> My question is, how do I go about this? Do I continue to follow the 180 and just ignore the invitation? Do I accept it and treat it as a sign that she needs some kind of interaction with me, despite our separation, and hope that it can help bring us closer to trying to reconcile? I mean... I can't really send her a message saying "Because we're separated and I'm trying to move on with my life, I feel like we shouldn't be playing these games anymore" can I? Having a tough time deciding what to do here... I can't open the application on my phone and play with my brother, Dad, sister-in-law or anyone else without either declining or accepting the invite from her game first... Not sure what to do in this situation...
> 
> Any insight would be appreciated! Thanks!


Boy I tell you that I have the same thoughts and conversations with myself. We want to keep the connection where it works, but then it seems to be against the 180 rules. As many keep repeating, the 180 is more for us than them to make us stronger. 

I hear some people say to stop all communication, but that seems impossible. 

There seems to be a fine line between making them miss us a little and the fear of losing them for good.

Take care, be strong!


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## needtobehappy (Dec 6, 2011)

Troubldhusband.....So what if your wife never wants to get back together? Did you think about what then? Do you think you can be okay? Also, are you sure she is not seeing someone else already? Don't take it the wrong way, I'm just asking..


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## TroubldHusband (Nov 29, 2011)

needtobehappy said:


> Troubldhusband.....So what if your wife never wants to get back together? Did you think about what then? Do you think you can be okay? Also, are you sure she is not seeing someone else already? Don't take it the wrong way, I'm just asking..


Yes, that's part of the reason I've been doing the 180. I think I am trying to maintain the hope and faith (there have been signs throughout the past 2 months pointing in the direction) that she wants to try and reconcile at some point, but at the same time I do understand that there is a good possibility, and I am giving it 50/50 at this point that she will or will not want to reconcile. There are a lot of factors in why I'm so confident that it's 50/50 right now, but I'd rather not discuss some of the more personal and medical related things with her and our child. 

Yes I will be ok if we decide not to reconcile. I'm 27 years old. I'm young. Plenty of time and plenty of other fish in the sea. I've been working out again and getting back into the shape I was in when I played hockey my entire life, and have even been hit on a few times at a local restaurant/bar that I like to have dinner at with some friends once a week, which has been a major confidence booster for me personally, though not something I plan on following through with at this point because I'm maintaining my loyalty and faith to the marriage since we're technically still married. Lost 25 pounds in 2 months now too. I think things will be fine for me either way. I'd like to live a happy life WITH her, but at the same time I do completely understand that I can go on with my life and live a happy life WITHOUT her as well.

As far as her seeing someone else, I personally don't think she has the time or energy for it, but don't get me wrong, the thought passes through my mind that she may be seeing someone else already, despite what she says. At the same time, part of my problem lies in trust issues (I've been betrayed by family and friends before, so have always had issues getting close to people), and it's something I'm working on changing about myself, so I have to maintain that trust. She and I have grown up together, have known each other since 3rd grade, have been together since 8th grade, and I feel I can trust her to remain faithful for the time being, at least until a decision is made to divorce or reconcile. Like I said, the thoughts obviously pass through my mind. I obviously have that to think about. I just try not to think about it as much as possible.


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## needtobehappy (Dec 6, 2011)

Great job on losing the weight... Sounds like you have a clear head about things, that is good. I was asking because my husband and I have been separted for two months also. I'm on the other end, like your wife. I was just wondering a guy's thought process...Thank you and good luck..


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## TroubldHusband (Nov 29, 2011)

I have a clear head because I know what I want and I'm driven to achieve that goal/end result. I feel for you, deep down. I know what I put my wife through. I wish she would have gotten a tape recorder and recorded me sometimes so I could go back and hear myself and the awful things I said. I know about 90% of it, but there are things that even when we would discuss it when we were together, I would not remember saying in the fog of my anger/losing my temper. It's not right. I probably don't deserve a second chance, but at the same time, I think God can see that I'm trying to better myself, and as I leave myself and my situation completely and entirely in his hands I have faith that in the end everything will work out for the best. It's a long, dark road to my own personal recovery and the repair of my marriage, but it's not nearly as long and dark as the road I was going down was. Good luck to you and your husband! I hope he realizes that his behavior is unacceptable and works on changing himself so the two of you can come together as a happy, loving couple again.


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## TroubldHusband (Nov 29, 2011)

Haven't been around in a while... just an update... Found out about a 100% confirmed EA, possible PA on my wife's part (though no evidence yet). Haven't talked to her in 10 days. Talk to my daughters via my daughter's cell phone when I'm not working. Been focusing on me and keeping busy with family/friends, so that's why I haven't been posting. Lots to think about, lots to decide. Don't think I'm going to pursue a relationship with my wife anymore, despite how much I love her. Time to let her go and move on. All these months I'm thinking it's my behavior and my issues that are keeping her from wanting to work on the marriage and it's the fog of someone else clouding her thoughts and judgement... Still focusing on fixing my own issues, but have a deeper understanding of my own issues and what led to my anger after speaking with a counselor and pastor. 

He's basically told me my behavior is unacceptable, but it was driven/triggered by her own behavior. Had a couple revelations speaking with him. My anger was driven by her flirty nature, and her constant want/need for attention at the bars. Always had to have every guy in the bar looking at her all the time. This brought up some bad mental triggers/memories of some issues she and I had in our past early on in the relationship, and it would trigger my anger. When we were together at a family party or bonfire and drinking I never got angry. When we were sitting at home with close friends having drinks, I never got angry. Anywhere where I was comfortable with the company and atmosphere, and our surroundings, I didn't get that way. In fact, most those nights ended up amazing for both of us. Amazing night, amazing sex, even a few nights where we would get drunk and then not even have sex, but lay together in bed and talk until 4am...It was the bars and combination of her behavior mixed in with my memories of some things from our past that brought all this out. He basically told me it sounds like we're just bad for each other. That she brings the worst out in me, and therefore we are not a good match. That we're like fire and gas in some situations, and it can be fixed, but not if one person isn't willing... and based on my wife's recent behavior, and my new-found information of her EA/possible PA... she's not willing. He made me realize that she is the only one who ever brings that anger out of me. I don't get that way with anyone else, my kids, my family, my friends, no one. Just her. Which to him just says we're a bad match, and we probably bring the worst out of each other.

This has basically put me in the position I'm in now to say enough is enough, and we probably aren't going to work. We'll see what happens some months from now, but for now I'm going to get on with my life and focus on me and not worry about us getting back together or not.


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## JazzTango2Step (Apr 4, 2011)

Troubld, I just read your story and I was hoping she didn't have an EA.

I know in my situation when I left my husband, I said the exact same thing your wife said. I had no intention of seeing anyone. I came out of an abusive relationship and really, any man that made an advancement was immediately shut down rather cruelly. I meant what I said. I had no intention of starting anything after the separation. I was hoping your wife was the same way. My husband believes I've been out with guys and possibly have even slept with someone, but I haven't. At the moment, I'm so shy of men that I think I might pepper spray one if a stranger said hello to me on the street.

Are you sure there is another man? My husband was very emotionally, verbally and physically abusive and very possessive and jealous as well. Even though I've given him no clue as to what I've been doing, he's still confident I'm seeing someone, which I'm not. I'm just concerned whether you have some real proof or if your old jealousy monster is creeping up again.

I am SO HAPPY that you are seeking therapy! You have no idea! God, I wish my husband was adult enough to admit his mistakes and aim to fix them any means he knew how. It would make him such a better man, the man I loved when we first met. It would make him a better person for our daughter and for any other woman he might become involved in. Unfortunately, my husband can't find any fault in himself that he's willing to fix, and his actions will cause his own tragic downfall time and time again.

Not only are you becoming a better person for yourself, but you are becoming a better father as well, and eventually, a better partner in the end. You'll learn how to manage your anger correctly and that, along with some other things, will turn you into a person who can be more easily loved. You'll show your future girl who you can be, not who you were. Change is a very hard thing to accept and you've openly embraced it. I applaud your courage and hope the best for you!

On another note, you may want to think about filing for divorce. If she has shown no interest in reconsiling, and you are in the mind-set to move forward, this may be the right step for you to take.


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## TroubldHusband (Nov 29, 2011)

I'm definitely considering divorce. I'm sorry about your husband and his denial of his own behavior. I understand my verbal abuse was unacceptable, yet at the same time I can't help but hear what the pastor said and take it to heart. She truly is the only person I have ever gotten that way with. I'm such a happy/fun-loving/carefree person with anyone else involved in my life. I've never been physical with her either, strictly verbal/anger/temper issues, and like the pastor made me realize last week, it was honestly only after observing her behavior when we were out together and having it trigger other bad memories from earlier in our relationship, something I'm glad I'm getting help to overcome. I don't want it to affect future relationships if we decide divorce is our best option at this point.

As far as her EA, I'm positive it's at least emotional. I heard a voicemail of the OM on her cell phone saying "Hey it's (so and so) just calling to tell you have a wonderful weekend! Talk to you later gorgeous!"

At that point I checked her facebook to see if his name was on there, and didn't see him on there. Then my brother's wife calls me up because I told her about the voicemail I heard and informs me that even though I couldn't see him, he does show up on there for other people. He shows up on my wife's friends list for my entire family, but not for me. That tells me one thing, and one thing only. He has me blocked on FB so that I can't see his name on her list in case the name ever came up in texts or I overheard it or anything like that. No other way I wouldn't be able to see his FB page, and him in her friends list, other than if he had me blocked. It also tells me that he knows that she's married, and who I am, and more than likely she told him to block me so I couldn't see that he existed on there. Then I confront her and she stumbles through it. When I ask who he is she goes "uhhhh pauses for a couple seconds, and then says a friend of her aunts from another state" (supposedly) Just yesterday I got some information that he possibly could NOT actually be from another state, but is actually living local somewhere close enough to frequent a bar that a friend of my family works at. The friend of my family has him on her FB and she thinks it was someone she met when bartending. No proof/evidence yet that he's local, but still, at the very least this is an EA, and unacceptable on her part.

Basically all these signs point to the fact that she's hiding him from me, and has at the very least been having an EA with the man. She may not have had the time for it to get physical until after we separated, but we've been separated for 2 1/2 months and I know for a fact that every weekend when I have the kids and she doesn't, she's out at the bars, based on some friends who have seen her out. She also has an empty house that she can bring him back to when I have the kids (She's staying at her mom's second house). She's spent every weekend I have with the kids out at the bar, when I can barely pay the bills and keep food in the fridge for my kids for when they come over. She's left me to deal with ALL the bills because she has worked for cash for the past few years and my checks covered bills while hers covered the groceries, gas in the cars, and general everyday needs, etc. I work in IT and already work long hours, and have had to do side-jobs just to keep paying the bills and to put presents under the tree for my daughters for x-mas. Hell... I couldn't even afford the tree at first, my parents had to pay for it until I got the side-jobs and was able to give them the money back for it. (we get a real one every year, it's a family tradition and I can't stand fake trees) 

Add all this onto the fact that she's been unwilling to work things out, get counseling with me, or do more than keep things friendly for the kids for the past 2 months, and it just screams affair. Then I turned around and called her out about her affair to her family and to the other man on FB (he never responded), and she got pissed and hasn't talked to me for like 10 days. Literally is only answering texts if they're about the kids, refuses to speak with me on the phone or in person and has refused to give me any explanation for the voicemail or the facebook situation other than "It's a friend of my aunt's"

I'm just basically fed up. I don't want to file for divorce quite yet with the holidays, both daughters birthdays, my wife's birthday, and other family things going on over the next month or so, but I'm leaning more and more that direction each day. As it stands right now I'm pretty adamant that I really don't want her back after this. She betrayed me once very early on in our relationship and I thought she had changed, and quite obviously hasn't. For now I'm enjoying living single, focusing on my life and my happiness, and keeping my daughters happy. I want to minimize the damage on them. I come from a long line of family members who don't divorce, and I'm not a big fan of it, but I can't ignore the facts, or the idea that we may just not be right for each other. We'll see. Only time will tell how she is going to feel/react, and how I'm going to. Right now the 180 is what I've been doing for like 3 weeks or a month, and now I'm REALLY getting into it. I text her a bunch the first day I found out about the EA which was 12 days ago and I literally have not spoken to her in 11 days other than one text today about picking up the kids at noon on x-mas day because they're spending the x-mas day holiday with my family and me. (Actually now that I think about it, there was one other day during the week, but it was strictly stuff involving the kids) The funny thing is, she went from refusing to answer me that day when I called her out about the EA, to apologizing for not answering quicker today because she was at work. I'm not looking into it, though, because as I said, right now my mind is made up. I want nothing to do with her at this point. I'm still pissed off about it all, and though I'm sure I'll forgive her at some point, right now I don't want to, and I don't know if I want to continue to live my life the way I have been with her. Lots to think about over the next couple months here... Seems like as of now she still doesn't want to work things out either. The fog is probably playing a big role in her mindset, though. I know she felt guilty, though, because when I called my wife out, the very next day when I picked up my kids, my daughter asked me "Why was Mommy crying after I talked to her on the phone yesterday"


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## WhyinSC (Dec 16, 2011)

TroubldHusband said:


> I'm definitely considering divorce. I'm sorry about your husband and his denial of his own behavior. I understand my verbal abuse was unacceptable, yet at the same time I can't help but hear what the pastor said and take it to heart. She truly is the only person I have ever gotten that way with. I'm such a happy/fun-loving/carefree person with anyone else involved in my life. I've never been physical with her either, strictly verbal/anger/temper issues, and like the pastor made me realize last week, it was honestly only after observing her behavior when we were out together and having it trigger other bad memories from earlier in our relationship, something I'm glad I'm getting help to overcome. I don't want it to affect future relationships if we decide divorce is our best option at this point.
> 
> As far as her EA, I'm positive it's at least emotional. I heard a voicemail of the OM on her cell phone saying "Hey it's (so and so) just calling to tell you have a wonderful weekend! Talk to you later gorgeous!"
> 
> ...


I don't have much to add to this at the moment cause I'm running out the door, but I just want to say you sound very mature and stand-up about all of this and it's a breath of fresh air on this site.... I'm 40 and not handling my divorce well at all and I find myself crying like a biyach way too much and trying to change stuff I cannot. 

My heart goes out to you but it seems you don't need it because you are handling it very well. Well done Sir, well done.


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## 1911s (Dec 22, 2011)

wow. I have been married fo twelve years also. She left me and my son a little over two months ago also. She went to live with her brother in another state. I know this roller coaster. This is also the first time we have been seperated. When she left the reason was basically she needed to become more independent and she has lost her on identity. Like you we still talk and she tells me not to worry. Ugh. You can read my post here:http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/36957-its-just-break-its-ok-apart.html
Anyway, your not the only one. You do sound like your doing alot better. That place in limbo is the most unfair feeling. I know.


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