# Help - wife just asked for divorce



## badniceguy (May 11, 2014)

Hi there,

It's a lovely Mother's day and I'm not feeling the love.

My wife just asked me for a divorce this morning and I'm still in shock so please excuse the scrambled thoughts. This might get long as I'm probably dumping... 

Let me explain our situation a bit:
I'm a Nice Guy (not in a good way). I only got attention as a kid when I stopped being myself. I had to solve my parents' marital problems, stop my mother from killing herself, and had an ultra-strict father. I was raised to do what my parents told me without thinking. No physical abuse, but emotionally I was neglected. My brother passed away when I was still in school and after that my parents glued themselves onto me - help with strings attached mostly, but I was the only one who could keep things sane.
I learned to do things to please others. It's deeply engrained, but it's fake. It's really a front because I crave the attention, recognition, companionship and love that I never got when I was a child. Most people think I'm a great guy, but that's only because they don't see through the mask - and it works. My wife though has seen through the mask (duh) and just sees the needy and demanding husband.
I do have my moments though. I have realized why I am the way I am and have endeavoured to change myself. I think I have made progress, but still have a long way to go.

My wife is a Nice Girl too. She came from a very poor family with an alcoholic father. Just like me, she craves attention and recognition too and wants someone who just knows what to do and can do it right away. She has an incredibly short fuse and gets angry at the smallest things. She loves watching those Korean TV dramas where all the men are just perfect - let's just say "fantasy princes". I have to say she has her moments too. She is a fantastic mother (most of the time) and works hard for her family. Sometimes she feels satisfied with her/our life, and all is good.

As you might imagine, two needy people are kinda asking for trouble. Neither of us manage to live up to the others' expectations. This build up with pent-up disappointment, resentment that eventually leads to irrational anger. It takes a lot of effort from both of us to break these this twin negative spirals.

She did threaten to leave on so many occasions that I have lost count. It happened so often that I started to ignore it. This time, I believe she is serious. It's the first time she brooded on something for 3 weeks, the first time she asked for a divorce, and the first time she moved into the spare bedroom.

What set it off? I've been stressed out a lot these days. I've seen a second round of sweeping lay-offs in the workplace, the remainder of us are all overworked and stressed. We're pulling our son from the expensive private school because we can't afford it any more, leading to more stress for the both of us. We've had a vacancy in our basement suite, with huge renovations needed - all done ourselves, leading to even more stress and tiredness. Both of us have lapsed into our old patterns. I started to work harder doing chores, but with the expectation that she would acknowledge and become happy that I did so. She wanted more (in reality not more, but different) help than I could give her. 

Now she's had enough. She will move to China, leaving me here with our son.

Some more background: I earn 5 times as much as her per hour, she works casual part time, I work full time and more. She will have a really hard time to survive financially if she goes on her own. Our son is the type who needs a village to raise him, not just one parent. Our son is really demanding because he is exceptionally bright. He tires out his parents a lot - to the point of his mom giving him flak for making her work so hard - she sometimes goes on to ranting about how hard it was for her to give birth to him etc.

So - As hard as it is living with her near-perpetual anger, I really don't want to do this to her, to my son and I admit, to myself. Financially, emotionally and practically.
It will be hard financially for her, and since I'm not a heartless bastard, I feel it to be fair to give her the money that she deserves and needs to start afresh. It will be hard for me financially too - we are just making ends meet, and giving her money will make it harder to make those ends meet in the future. We currently share all our finances, bank accounts, investments, the works.
It will be hard emotionally for all of us, especially for my son. I don't want him to blame himself for this. He already is showing some pleasing behaviour and I worry he might fall into the same "pleasing others" trap as I have.
It will be hard practically too - before and after-school care is pretty spotty and kids activity hours are all aimed at the "typical" family where the husband works and the wife is 100% free to attend to the kids during the day. I have to work long hours as an Engineer, and I worry that I will not be able to devote enough time to him.

I want to either fix this relationship (she says she does not want to), or if we have no choice but ending it, I want to do it right.

Any advice on what I should do? She says by summer (it's already here), she'll be gone. I don't want to do this wrong and while I understand she wants to get it over and done with, I think she is rushing it.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Before doing anything drastic, I would think that the two of you should consider MC(Marriage Counseling) first and foremost. I think that you owe it, not only to yourselves, but to the entire family!

So sorry to see you going through this, but you've definitely come to the right place here at TAM!*


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

arbitrator said:


> *Before doing anything drastic, I would think that the two of you should consider MC(Marriage Counseling) first and foremost. I think that you owe it, not only to yourselves, but to the entire family!
> 
> So sorry to see you going through this, but you've definitely come to the right place here at TAM!*


:iagree:

Counselling is a must.

Is there any possibility that a Korean Prince is on the scene?:scratchhead:


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## badniceguy (May 11, 2014)

Thank you for the replies. 

Yes, counseling is IMHO what saved us the last time things were rough. We enjoyed an extended time of relative harmony after that. I had to drag her to counseling then, and although I will try again, I doubt she will agree this time.

I doubt she's cheating - not the type.

I was saddened by her actions tonight. She told our son about it by asking him who he'd rather live with - mom or dad... The poor guy is only seven! He answered at first he'd like to stay with each of us 1/2 the time, she said not possible since she is moving to China. He then said mom, because the education system in China is better, but on second thought, since he would have to learn Chinese and live in a very small apartment, he'd rather stay here. My heart was beating in my throat. His answers were more adult than the adults in the house.

Reality is slowly sinking in now - this is going to be a hard and painful journey.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> As you might imagine, two needy people are kind of asking for trouble. Neither of us manages to live up to the others' expectations. This build up with pent-up disappointment, resentment that eventually leads to irrational anger. It takes a lot of effort from both of us to break these this twin negative spirals.




*You are both needy and immature.* If your wife wants to break up a family based on what you wrote then she knows very little about reality and marriage for the long haul. I do not see any super serious reason to break up a family because you both can go to a good MC and get a lot better. Of course that is also based on your BOTH making the changes needed.


There are no perfect Korean men or any other perfect men in this world. There was one man 2000 years ago but the religious hypocrites had the cruel Roman government kill Him. *If she is going to leave you and go back to China you need to use your financial advantage to get a fair legal settlement that also includes your 100% rights to your son. DO NOT short change yourself because you want to please *


In addition get yourself the right helps so that you can improve those areas in your life that you mentioned. You are so needy and that is not healthy for you, your child, or anyone else you are involved in. *You have mentioned the areas that you feel you need help in so what have you done to get better?*


You life will never get better if you do not improve in those areas that you mentioned. *This forum can give you good advice but you need a good professional and then you need to do your part and take the action that is required.*


Your wife’s biggest problem is her and your biggest problem is you. I know you want a quick fix for your marriage but there is none that I know of. I only know that a person with your background and deficits will go no where until you improve you!


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## dedad (Aug 22, 2013)

badniceguy,

It seems kinda late to be asking for help here. But, just in case this was just an outburst from your wife, do look at MMSL. There are also many posts here that can help you (just search for posts by MEM11363).


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## badniceguy (May 11, 2014)

Mr blunt: You are perfectly correct - The reason that I know what I did wrong is because I got professional help to fix it in the past. It worked. The thing that bugs me is that I seem to have relapsed without noticing it. I have my first phone-counseling session coming up on Friday as I definitely need to get an expert helping me on this. I am new in town, and have had to move so often that I have no local support network to turn to and I have not seen my friends in 10 years due to physical distance. 

I am grateful for your support as I honestly feel I need all the support I can get right now.

I know I have been in the wrong by not standing up to her and not speaking up when I should have - just so as to prevent her from getting upset with me. That led to resentment because she did not reciprocate, which eventually led to me being angry and speaking up about irrelevant things that would really have been better left unsaid.

I mean, she has a short temper. I can live with that. But add to that her expectation that her man should be available as a sort of punching bag for her to dump her anger, frustrations, and other negative emotions on, and somehow know that she does not mean all the mean, disrespectful and outright hurtful things she says. That combination tips a guy who already is vulnerable to becoming the "nice guy" and internalizing it all right back into the nice guy syndrome.

I was recovering, lost my vigilance and relapsed. I am really angry at myself that my relapse might cost me my marriage. Not the way I would like to learn my lesson.

I just wish that she too realize that she did something wrong too. She is so incredibly defensive - can't stand to be corrected, blows her top when someone asks her to do something right - or even do something differently, and gets upset at the smallest things that could be interpreted either way. Thing is, she gets this angry at everybody, not just me. I very rarely if ever hear her say anything positive about people, institutions, companies, countries, mankind. 

Bah! I need to get this off my mind or I'm going to go crazy.


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## badniceguy (May 11, 2014)

dedad said:


> badniceguy,
> 
> It seems kinda late to be asking for help here. But, just in case this was just an outburst from your wife, do look at MMSL. There are also many posts here that can help you (just search for posts by MEM11363).


I'm not familiar with MMSL. Can you tell me what that is?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Are you in the US or Canada? If so, I'd be speaking to a lawyer ASAP to prevent her from moving your son away. Hiding his passport would be a good first step. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

badniceguy said:


> I'm not familiar with MMSL. Can you tell me what that is?


Welcome and Orientation | Married Man Sex Life

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

badniceguy said:


> I'm not familiar with MMSL. Can you tell me what that is?


This book.

And a great forum, from what I hear.

IIWY, the first thing I would do is get to a lawyer so she has no legal RIGHT to take your son away from you. In the US, you can stipulate that she can't move him out of your city/county, let alone country. I don't know what the laws are like there, but get to a lawyer today!

You can worry about the rest later.


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## Alpha (Feb 18, 2013)

So she says she wants to go to China, leave you, your son, and not take one dime? If that is the case, you have a perfect situation. Get a good lawyer, have her sign off on everything, and send her packing on the next flight out.

You don't need her crap. A person who wants to leave her husband and have no responsibility for her child isn't someone you want to have around.


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## badniceguy (May 11, 2014)

Big update!

Last night started off with me trying to clarify a few practical issues. Is she still going to do any cooking until she moves out? Do I need to do this and that, etc? What summer camps do we already have for our son so I can fill in the gaps. That way I can plan and do what needs to be done.

She replied "I don't know" to my question "Are you still going to do some cooking or do I have to take care of that?". Being tired (haven't slept in 3 days), upset and generally in a bad mood, I did not take well to that answer. I said she should not be nasty - at least give me enough forewarning so I can prepare dinners etc. i used the example of her not finishing packing our son's lunch the morning. She exploded in anger - she did not finish his lunch because had stomach cramps (unbeknownst to me). I apologized and said I did not know that and assumed the worst. She was even more angry at me for assuming the worst. I told her what do you expect from a guy who did not sleep for 3 days! I'm not thinking straight, never mind cool and calm.

So after putting our son to bed, last night we started off talking about finances and how we are going to do this fairly. Stuff like how much money she needs to start over, how much will I need for extra child care expenses, etc.

The conversation side-tracked and she asked me what do I want to do about our situation. I told her I honestly would prefer to fix things rather than throw away all the good things we do have.
She asked me what my definition of love is. I told her, she agreed that is what she understands it to be too. We talked about how we show love to another person. She felt that actions spoke louder than words. I told her that her words are very hurtful, and that although her actions are those of a very loving and caring wife and mother, her words and tone of voice is intensely hurtful. It's like there's two different persons in there. She seemed to take that in and we talked about how I am very sensitive to those things, especially given my childhood. She seemed to take that in well too.

I then talked about my issues - my own shortcomings and how I am planning to fix them. I told her about the therapy sessions I have booked, the self-help books I have started reading, this forum. She supported me on that and I said I am angry at myself that it took a crisis for me to realize that I was in relapse, and needed to get outside help to prevent that from happening again. 

It was time to go to bed, so I went to brush my teeth - when I returned to the bedroom, she was putting her pillow back on the bed. We chatted more in the bed - she changed her mind about leaving. She said that she realised that she maybe also needs to see a councelor to work on her anger issues and hurtful words. 

I am honestly grateful that she recognized that this was both of our fault and that we both have to work to fix ourselves so that we can fix our relationship.

This morning we told our son so he could stop worrying.

Now for the hard part: Getting rid of the Nice Guy Syndrome and stop being such a roundabout jerk to her.

Thank you so much for the links! I will go through them tonight.


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## dedad (Aug 22, 2013)

What can I say? Congradulations, Man. Best wishes and do keep us posted on who things work out.

Do take time to look at the resources and links that me and the other posters provided. 

Happy for you.


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## nickgtg (Jan 11, 2013)

So she changed into the woman you want all in three days? She's still the same person with the same problems, as are you, as is your relationship. 

You both need counseling, the problems won't go away or fix themselves. Good luck.


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## onlylonelyone (Jan 26, 2009)

That's great but I can't help but feel so sad for your son who has already been asked who and where he wants to live Not cool on your wife's part and I would have to put my foot down if I were you about what and when things are discussed with him. Seems more like he was used to falsely convince you she's not crying wolf.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Yeah, she's still a selfish person who manipulates children. Don't forget that.

Now, today, ON YOUR WAY HOME, stop at the bookstore and get His Needs Her Needs by Harley. Sit down with her in bed tonight and read the first chapter together. Make a commitment to read it together and do the worksheets that go with it. This is VITAL!


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Welcome to the TAM forum, BNG. I'm so sorry that the three of you are going through so much emotional pain.



badniceguy said:


> Now she's had enough. She will move to China, leaving me here with our son.


If that threat was serious and not just a manipulative ploy, it is a very bad warning sign. It is rare, even for seriously disordered women, for a mother to be willing to leave her 7 year old son behind and move to the other side of the planet. If you are half as bad as she claims you are, why would she be willing to trust you with raising her young son?



> She sometimes goes on to ranting about how hard it was for her to give birth to him etc.


You are saying, essentially, that your W is emotionally abusing your 7 year old son in addition to you. She also told him she was going to China with or without him. Threatening a 7 year old with abandonment can be incredibly damaging to his emotional development.



> My wife is a Nice Girl too.


Perhaps so. That is NOT what you're describing, however. Rather, you're describing a woman with "an incredibly short fuse and gets angry at the smallest things." You say she exhibits "near-perpetual anger." You say she believes you "should be available as a sort of punching bag for her to dump her anger." 

Hence, you are not describing a "nice person" but, rather, a woman with tremendous anger and resentment, which she likely has been carrying from early childhood. If so, this means you don't have to do a thing to CREATE the anger. Instead, you only have to say or do some minor thing that TRIGGERS the anger that is always there. This could explain, then, why she is displaying event-triggered anger and is evident in the way she can flip -- in less than a minute -- from Jekyll to Hyde.



> "It's like there's two different persons in there."


The rapid flips from Jekyll (loving you) to Hyde (devaluing you) -- together with the numerous divorce threats and her "near perpetual anger" -- suggest that your W may have strong traits of a personality disorder. Importantly, I'm not suggesting she has a full-blown disorder. Only a professional can make that determination. Rather, I'm simply suggesting she may be exhibiting moderate to strong traits of a PD. Not having met the lady, I cannot tell you whether your are describing strong traits or not. I nonetheless believe you are capable of spotting any strong warning signs that are occurring.

I therefore suggest you take a look at my list of PD warning signs at 18 Warning Signs. If most of those signs sound very familiar, I would also suggest you read my more detailed description of them at my post in Maybe's Thread. If that discussion rings some bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you. Take care, BNG.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

And get your son into counseling.


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## Alpha (Feb 18, 2013)

It won't be long before the Sh*t hits the fan. I'm sorry, but a woman who has already threatened leaving won't suddenly change her mind. 

I already went through all of this personally. She'll tell you let's give it another shot, go through the motions with counseling and all, but her heart won't be in it. 

It's only when she feels real loss that she'll ever really go back to you. In the end, you're going to have to let her go. 

Realize that if she likes being by herself with no responsibility to even her child, then she has done you the favor of sparing you a miserable life, because who wants to live with a woman like that? 

If she feels her loss and wants to come back, then its your choice to decide to take her back or not.

Act on YOUR terms, not hers.


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