# Porn and real life



## Riven (May 4, 2012)

Before I met my husband he watched a lot of porn. He hadn't really had much of a serious relationship according to him before me either. 

As our marriage progressed and he was working away from home more and more it seemed, he decided to get a laptop, this is the guy who said he didn't know how to really use a computer. I knew what it was for, but I didn't put much stock into it. In light of other issues I've come to find out that he would masturbate while at work ( and possibly at home if I was gone?) daily to internet porn.

It has gotten to the point where he can't even get off having sex with me unless the lights are on, and I find it frustrating. Sometimes he will basically tell me, he would like to have sex... but it's "too much work". I've been reading some of the links I've found on here about porn and want him to read them too. For the last several weeks I know he's not been watching porn, so maybe now is a good time to cut it out all together? I know that this last week he actually got off with me in the dark, even though he didn't think he would. I don't mind the lights on thing once in a while, but when it becomes a requirement? There's a problem right? I just don't want to feel like I'm wrong in this fight. I'm open to trying new things and stuff... I just need to understand.


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## rider (Jun 22, 2009)

Been there, and to a certain extent I am still there. Counseling helps, but talking about it can help too. The work stuff can get embarrassing, he might want to cut it out.

If he shares his thoughts with you, then he might help himself stick to a goal of quitting. Just don't stigmatize it, remember that it's an addiction, not a lack of love. 

Sounds like you are doing the right things, time for him to take a step in the right direction...


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## Riven (May 4, 2012)

Thanks rider, he's already in counseling for other issues mainly alcoholism and I've talked to his counselor about it as well. The other problem comes in that I feel like he doesn't want to have sex with me. I don't understand how he can masturbate daily to porn, but not want to have sex with me daily. I switch it up, I bring it on, I come home in nothing but panties and fishnet... it's not like I'm sitting here in sweats wondering why he doesn't want me. After reading the articles I feel much better, that it's not me. 

I'm sure the counselor has this info, but I was going to print it for him and her, do you think that's okay? I don't want to push my boundaries and build a wall... I want to be able to make love with my husband on occasion instead of always feeling like I'm in a porn movie. Don't get my wrong, often I love the fun things we do, but sometimes I just want to be softed and loved, not spanked and dirty talked...


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## dubbizle (Jan 15, 2012)

Why not sit down and ask him about why he likes to watch porn [in a non-angry way]or sit and watch some with him and pleasure him while he is watching.Try thinking outside of the box instead of getting on his case about where he has to hide it from you. 
Many people who are addicted to one thing and get off it[Alcoholism]get addicted to something else as a fill in so that could be porn for him.


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## rider (Jun 22, 2009)

Could the porn use be leading to him fantasizing about another sex life outside the Marraige? Has he ever cheated?

I have said it jokingly a thousand times with friends, but if you come home to your woman dressed like that and don't do anything about it, then don't complain when someone else tries to...

If he is not cheating, and just fantasizing, you got lucky and caught it. Addiction is a brain type, alcohol, porn, etc. we addicts are just addicts.

Ironically I have quit a handful of substances in the last year through counseling, but the best thing I did for my personal health and confidence was excercise.

The side effect is that it's great for libido.

Keep it up, you will make it through!


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## Riven (May 4, 2012)

He is a recovering alocholic and already has this much porn addiction. He doesn't want to have sex with me daily, but will watch porn daily... to me this is an issue.

5 weeks ago he was away for work, got really drunk at the bar. Like 2 sleeping pills and 6 beers before he even *went* to the bar, doesn't remember large sections of the night, etc. Well he woke up next to someone who wasn't me from the bar that night. Said he couldn't even get it up and didn't even want to have sex with this woman, so I'm not sure why she was at his hotel... there's more to the story but that's a whole other deal. In the end he doesn't remember actually having sex with her, but she was there and that's enough.

I'm not trying to "get on his case" I'm trying to save our sex life. It's getting to the point where he has to go for a long time before he can get off, the lights HAVE to be on or he can't... To me there is a problem when there is an attractive woman riding you hard and you can't get off just because the lights aren't on... Am I wrong on that?


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

Riven, you don't come out and ask too many specific questions in your posts, so I'm going to take a swing at putting your concerns together and then answering them.

Your husband is a recovering alcoholic with a porn addiction. He seems to want sex with you much less frequently than you want it with him, and he prefers to use porn as a source of relief. When the two of you do have sex, he seems to have trouble if it's not "porn-style" sex, with the lights on and no tender emotional feelings involved. He has now gotten so drunk that he "accidentally" cheated on you and gave you a bull**** explanation that you are desperately trying to accept as the truth.

You state that you're trying to save your sex lives together, and wonder why the lights always have to be on.


This is kind of like an onion, with layers inside layers.

Let's start with the simple, straightforward fix.

If your goal is to stay married, your best course of action is to forget about tender, intimate sex. Spend a little time surfing the net to learn how porn stars do it, and behave that way with your husband. The lights will be on, because guys are visual creatures. Accept that, due to his own character defects, that your husband "isn't that into you," and that you will probably get some STD's after one of his accidental drunken one night stands.

If you want to try to gradually improve your marriage, adopt a harder line on his alcoholism- if he's getting drunk, he's not a recovering alcoholic, he's a current alcoholic. Insist on counseling and treatment for both his alcoholism and his porn addiction, with meaningful, measurable results. A good measure for progress on alcoholism is "NO DRINKING EVER." A good measure for progress on porn addiction, amusingly enough, is "How many times did we have sex in the last month."

Because, see, the problem isn't so much him viewing porn, as it is him substituting porn for sex with you, which is what you really want. So figure out how often you'd like to be having sex with him and work towards that goal.


If you want to enjoy the benefits of a healthy, happy marriage, you have to be prepared to lose the one you have entirely. Because it is virtually impossible to have a healthy happy marriage when you're married to an alcoholic. Separate from all the problems caused in a relationship by alcohol, porn addiction has its own corrosive effects on things- the non-porn-viewing partner starts having all kinds of self esteem problems, just like you are (why would he rather jerk off than have sex with me???). 


Now. Stepping outside all that.

Riven, you are obviously a fairly intelligent and articulate woman. In describing yourself, you sound like you're decent looking at a minimum, and willing to put some effort into pleasing your partner. These are all good qualities that many men find attractive in women.

I think it would be helpful to you to spend some time trying to understand exactly why, when you have such good qualities, you chose to marry a man who has such poor qualities as alcoholism and porn addiction. And we can now add unfaithful to the list, after his little barroom episode that you know about.

Your marriage is seriously unbalanced, and it is unbalanced against you in ways that are very resistant to evening the scales up.


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## Riven (May 4, 2012)

Notlikeyou, I do appreciate that you have apparently been following my saga. Thank you for taking interest. 

My husband has quit drinking since everything happened. He has taken a job at home and is home every night. He says he has not watched porn since this has all occurred, it will be 6 weeks tomorrow. He had not had anything to drink, despite occassional desires to do so. I understand that, especially for him, it is hard when I "blur the lines" between now and then. He seems to think that there was a paradigm shift if you well, that everything changed and that the past is not applicable to the current happenings, but I am unable to process it that way. 

Here is where I sound like every other hopelessly co-dependant person, my husband loves me, he would give me the world if he could. He has sacrificed for my wants. I've seen him live on $100 for two weeks on the road for me to have things I want, not need, want. He's worked for years away from home so I could stay home with our kids, so I can go back to college to obtain another degree in a different field and not have to worry about working as well. I have considered that my ready acceptance of the recalling of events is a bandaid fix instead of true moving on. Each day I question events that happened in my head that he says he does not recall. Do I believe he's lying to me? I do not. He did today suggest that perhaps a hypnotist could help him recall the events of that night. Do I think that he may be blocking out things because they are hurtful to himself, yes I do. Am I having unprotected sex? No I am not. Has my husband been tested for STD's, yes he has. HIV PEP's have been completed and the tests will continue.

With that said, I find your post both encouraging and discouraging all in one bundle. I actually took time to think about my reply and re-read your post again at a later time after thinking about it, because at first I felt a bit attacked, but after thinking about it I feel you are truly just being honest, which is something I consider a very highly regarded trait, so thank you for that. Your post reminds me of someone who I had must respect for before she passed on. I do not want to sound un-open to advice, as I welcome it, in fact if you have plenty of time on your hands I'd be more than glad to type out everything for your consideration. I have no reservations about that. I have considered that there are possibilities that things will not work out. You can add to my list of qualities hopeful... I have a degree in architectural drafting with a minor in mechanical drafting. Like all drafters I can see things that aren't there yet. What really worries me is that I see something that will never be there...


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

Marriage is first and foremost about two people, if porn is getting between you two sexually... the porn has to go.

I have nothing against porn per se, but I think it can destroy relationships when used to excess. It sounds like your husband is addicted to it, if he finds real sex to be too much work. While it's true that real sex is more work, it's always far more fulfilling. Until he realizes that again he needs to get off the proverbial sexual junk food.


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

Argh. I hate the part where what I say gets interpreted as attacking, when its not meant to be (as opposed to when I am being an *******, which happens, uh, too frequently, dammit).

But, yes, Riven, I was shooting for an honest appraisal of your situation, and sketch out three different paths you could pursue and leave you to determine which one would work best.

In light of your followup post, I do have some stuff to add and I will try to present it in as encouraging a manner as I can, although I will still give you a clear-eyed picture of the negative stuff.

The Good Stuff.

It sounds like the barroom episode MAY have possibly scared your husband into sobriety, at least for awhile.

It sounds like it may have also caused him to back away from the porn.

Based on what you wrote about him tightening his belt so that you and the children can have a good life, he is willing to sacrifice selfish urges for the good of the family. This actually would go in the "Great Stuff" column if I had one.

You have gotten him tested for STDs and so far things look clean.

You have a technical education with good job skills, which opens up possibilities for you going forward, either alone or with him.

These are all good thangs that I honestly think provide a deep enough base that you two can recover from and get to a better marriage than you had.

So before we get to the Bad Stuff, let's talk in detail about the Good Stuff. Basically, the, well, challenge, for you, is to create conditions where the Good Stuff stays permanent.

You need to stick to your guns on "blurring the lines," because while it may have been a true "come to Jesus" moment for him, he has a bad track record with respect to the problem behaviors. I can't recommend any professional therapist tips to address this. The problem with "paradigm shifts" in addictions is that they have a very low actual success rate. Something stressful happens in real life and it causes the person to "have a drink to take the edge off of things," and it snowballs right back into alcoholism.

So the absolute best advice I can give you is to talk to him a bunch about his alcoholic tendencies, and his porn-viewing tendencies, and LISTEN to what he says. Because you can't ever know his true thoughts, and the closest you can get is to listen to how he talks about them. You basically need to "know where he's at" about these things. Because he may never touch a bottle again, or he may have to be carried back to his hotel room the next business trip. You need to know where he's at, so that you can be prepared for either eventuality.

But take any opportunity you can to reward good behavior on his part. (Yes, rewarding him for not-watching porn will be easier and more straightforward than rewarding him for not-drinking. Although you could kind of roll both rewards together, I suppose  )

The other thing you can now do is, with your new degree, is get a job and help with the finances, which would allow him to maybe take a job that involves less travel and more family time.

Having done a little business travel myself, I can say that it can make you feel uprooted and apart from your loved ones. That part of traveling sucks a lot.

And to touch on porn addiction again- its a weird addiction, in that the damage is extremely hard to quantify or even identify. That's why I recommended the fix I did- when you are viewing porn and playing with yourself to the point that your partner isn't getting the sex they want from you, there's a problem. Porn is for when you're horny, you've made some effort to get your partner horny too, and it didn't work. Otherwise, go for the real live sex thing.


The Bad Stuff.

The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.

Real, meaningful change is HARD to do.

Combine these two nuggets of wisdom together and the odds are that your husband is going to backslide. If you choose to put effort into the relationship, put the effort into not letting him backslide.

That means specific goals, and sticking to them. That means carefully thinking about things, setting boundaries, and sticking to them. So if you haven't read about marital boundaries, go do some research. The short version is that a boundary is NOT a behavior that he is forbidden to engage in- (he can do whatever he wants to) it is a behavior that YOU will not accept in the relationship.

A good example is "You can have sex with other women if you want to, but I won't be in that kind of marriage, so I will divorce you if you do that."

And that's really the crux of the matter for you.

If your husband stays on the straight and narrow, life will become much better for you and the family.

If he fails to thrive, and resumes his addictive behaviors, you have to decide if his strengths outweigh his weaknesses, and act accordingly.

One last item of hopefulness.

Sometimes, guys can become better if they're given a vision to live up to. If you look at him, see the man you want him to be, and can explain that to him (he's a guy, so use short, simple words lol), its possible that he can get there mostly on his own. I hope that makes sense to you. It's a little vague and touchy-feely sounding, but I can't seem to find the words to explain it any better than that.

And to say that you seem like the kind of gal that could make it happen.

The journey of a thousand miles starts with talking about where you want to end up at, a thousand miles later.....


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## Riven (May 4, 2012)

> he's a guy, so use short, simple words lol


I literally busted up laughing at this! As you've noticed I'm wordy, and our counselor says I have a good sense of what I'm feeling and why. As she put it, I'm a senior in high school and he's a 2nd grader so we don't communicate well, I say what I feel and he's confused, what he says seems too simple I'm sure there is more to it. I'm learning to speak his language. Instead of going into it all, I'll just say I'm really feeling sad right now. 

I've been trying to reward him with doing things he likes, like going on motorcycle rides with him and such. We have talked about his change, he knows that even though I've told him he has a problem in the past, he didn't realize it until now. And now he wants to change. He says he "has" to change which is his way of saying he "has" to change if he wants our marriage to work. I've made him clarify this for me.

There are boundaries in place, another girl and I'm gone. Another drink, just one... and I'm gone. I feel like he's not trying ( best way I can describe it, remorseful, desiring to get better maybe?), it's a warning that I feel that way, he can't change and explain it... I'm gone. We are both learning. I have some self image issues that fall back to my childhood, rollercoaster effect, I have not learned how to maintain caring for myself, which leads to the co-dependency. He knows I left a LTR months before our wedding with a 16 month old to totally start over with nothing but my family to help me when I moved here. I'm not scared to start over, I know I can do it. I remember being a single parent with no child support, working full time, and going to school full time an hour from where I lived. Where I'm at in my life right now, starting over doesn't scare me, I'm here because I really want to try to make things work. 

I finish my school for nursing next May, I have to complete more clinicals and my proctorship before I can be done, and advanced med. classes. And after I'm done I'll be getting a job to the hospital where I worked in the lab for sometime doing a job I love and making good money as well. His job at home pays enough to get us through with everything taken care of until then. 

One of the best things I could have done was attend Al Anon, I learned there, like you said, he needs to do this himself. It's allowed me to learn to step back and let him "clean up his own mess" if you will. He has taken it all in stride.

My friend who reminds me of you, we used the term... brash. Once people understood that it wasn't an attack usually, and could see she meant good they would value her advice. Not everyone could get past that though. Some people apparently need everything sugar coated.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

Riven said:


> I literally busted up laughing at this! As you've noticed I'm wordy, and our counselor says I have a good sense of what I'm feeling and why. As she put it, I'm a senior in high school and he's a 2nd grader so we don't communicate well,


Be careful building your ego with this philosophy. As women we tend to live in our heads too much and not deal with the Now. Men deal with the Now and tend to never live in their head. It's a different way of living and has different consequences for communication, but be careful thinking your's is superior. Both approaches have pro's and cons. Your's is not superior, it's just different. He gets confused by you because you talk of things that aren't relevant to the Now. You get confused by him because all he is concerned with is the Now, with an emphasis on actions. If you can learn to communicate in the Now, which means respond with consequences to the moment you find yourself in and not the moment you were mad about three days ago, I think you'll find he responds better. 

I've had to deal with this different communication style with my H, too. He was/is a porn addict and I thought for a long time that I was more mature. I've since learned to communicate using his style which I have found has it's strengths. Sometimes my style is appropriate, too. But what I find is that I talk a lot less and I initiate a lot more consequences in the moment. It's very effective.


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## Riven (May 4, 2012)

I didn't say either was superior. The theory is that a senior can do work that is far more intensive, requiring more thought process, whether it be a book report or math etc. but if you try to discuss this say book report with a 2nd grader they don't get it. It is not only about communication styles, but mostly about levels of understanding our emotions, why the occur and how to deal with them.


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## Riven (May 4, 2012)

Sorry, I forgot to update. I brought this up to my husband, the porn issue and he was very, very defensive, but agreed to stop and turn his computer history on if I want to check it ever... I'm not sure what to think about the defensiveness. Sometimes I just feel like I'm over reacting, but sometimes I don't...


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

Another thing to keep in mind is that some browsers have privacy modes that don't log anything to history.

In the end a keylogger is the most accurate.


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## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

What's so wrong with the lights being on, just for the curious?


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## couple (Nov 6, 2010)

SoWhat said:


> What's so wrong with the lights being on, just for the curious?


I was wondering the same thing. I think you should be pleased that he finds you attractive and wants to look at your face and body during sex.


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## Riven (May 4, 2012)

He doesn't look at my face or body, he looks at his penis entering my vagina. That's all he looks at. 

The thing is 99% of the time the HAVE to be on in order for him to get off. Not a hey I like to look at it, it's I HAVE to look at it or I can't get off. That's where the problem is for me. If I wake up in the middle of the night and feel frisky, I don't want to have to turn the lights on and go through everything, I just want a quick mid-night romp.


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## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

Hmmm. 

I don't like the lights off either. I like a visual stimulus. A big part of that IS penetration for me too. Maybe I *could* get off in the dark, but I don't think I'd ever want to.
So I'm a little more sympathetic to him on the issue than maybe I should be.

So, playing devil's advocate: is turning on the lights really much time or effort for anyone? How is it "going through everything" ?


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## rider (Jun 22, 2009)

We compromise on candles. Sometimes lights and a blindfold, but none of that is going to fix the issue if he is just staring at your bits all the way through, you don't want to feel like meat.

One thing that is kind of a turn on is to just put him through the paces. Try just gently forcing him through typical foreplay. For example he has to kiss your neck and get you warmed up before taking clothes off, maybe then he has to give you a massage before the underwear comes off, etc. It might break him out of his porn funk and get him to focus on the two of you a bit more.

But i digress, the sex is not the real issue the porn and the not wanting to talk about it are.

Keyloggers etc put you in a parent/child relationship. And you WILL get blamed at some time for "always being on his case".

Quitting porn is his responsibility. It's everywhere in society and blocking the internet availability could push him god knows where.

Tell him that your main goal (your first small goal in pursuit of a large one) is for him to go a solid day without looking at porn. And that you just want him to come home some day and say "Hey babe, I did it, i went a day without, it was tough but I did."

Then maybe let him turn the lights on and stare at your bits! Your call 

You gotta fix the porn addiction and then focus on better sex in my opinion. Spoken as a reforming porn addict myself... I have to go a week or more without any porn to have real, emotional sex. Your mileage may vary.

Best of luck to you and all of you patient, loving, supportive wives who deal with our addictive brain bull**** and stick with us.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

rider said:


> Keyloggers etc put you in a parent/child relationship. And you WILL get blamed at some time for "always being on his case".


There's that. Another consideration is the fact that using this genre of software on another adult without their permission is a legal minefield. 

--Not trying to tell anyone what they should or shouldn't do, but here's some things to consider:

Surveillance software by its very nature captures everything, not just internet usage. Interception of the email of another adult is actionable both civilly and criminally under Title III of the Omnibus Crime Control & Safe Streets Act of 1968. The Fourth, Sixth, Eighth, Tenth, and Eleventh Circuits have all held that this _includes_ interspousal relations. (The Second and Fifth have ruled that it does not.) 

Every state except Vermont has enacted wiretap statutes of their own and sixteen states so far have passed laws specifically targeting the use of keyloggers and surveillance software on another adult (Including your spouse) without their permission. Texas has been the most aggressive by far and has prosecuted it as a felony. So your mileage can vary considerably depending upon where you live. 

The only reason I keep saying all this is because I'm being asked more and more to document the existence of this software.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

Riven said:


> If I wake up in the middle of the night and feel frisky, I don't want to have to turn the lights on and go through everything, I just want a quick mid-night romp.


My wife and I have had to compromise on this and it's not because of a porn problem. 

I don't need to see much, but I do need to at least see her pretty face and the outline of her hip. I put an in-line dimmer on the lamp on my side of the bed. We can bring the room up to the level of candlelight for mid-night romps.


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## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

Another thing: what constitutes addiction? 

Is looking at porn daily a "porn addiction?"
If he masturbated daily but was only imagining pornographic images - and not literally seeing them - would he have a porn addiction? A "masturbation addiction?"

I drink coffee every day - do I have a coffee addiction, a caffeine addiction, or a love of coffee? 

I see charges of "porn addiction" thrown around a lot and I'd just like to know what people really mean by it.


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## rider (Jun 22, 2009)

SoWhat said:


> Another thing: what constitutes addiction?
> 
> Is looking at porn daily a "porn addiction?"
> If he masturbated daily but was only imagining pornographic images - and not literally seeing them - would he have a porn addiction? A "masturbation addiction?"
> ...


For me it's when you start making poor decisions because of something that it becomes an addiction.

A few examples (one personal)

COFFEE
1. If you have coffee every day, you are not addicted.
2. If you are late for work or an appointment because you stopped at starbucks, it's a problem.

BOOZE
1. If you drink even 5-10 drinks a week, you might not be addicted to booze.
2. If you start saying things drunk that you regret later, you have a problem.

PORN (personal)
1. If you look at porn a couple times a week when wifey is not feeling frisky, probably not a huge deal.
2. If you view porn at work, on your smartphone, or when you should really be: Having sex with your wife, Cooking dinner, playing with kids, paying bills, calling an old friend, making doctors appointments. It's a problem.

The line of course is gray, but if you look at it in a way that reflects the decisions you make while abusing something vs not, it's pretty clear what's ok and what isnt.


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## Riven (May 4, 2012)

Thanks guys. I decided against doing a key logger. I know that rebuilding trust must start somewhere. He has not even touched his computer for nearly a week. I know this for a fact because I was messing with it and screwed it up, lol. He would've known it. Fixing it today. If he'd have noticed he would have asked me to fix it. Anyway, he did say he would turn his history on and I could review it whenever I wanted. That doesn't guarantee anything for most people, but my husband doesn't know how to do a lot of things on the computer. I guess I need to start trusting him little bits at some point, so we don't end up in a parent child type of situation.

I am glad to say that he did get off with the lights off AND me on top this last week. Usually neither of those things work for him unless I'm reverse cowboy and he can see it all. Our MC also explained some things about how it makes me feel and why I don't want him watching it 24/7. He seems to listen to her better than me, but that's okay we're still working on things.

I feel he's really trying. Thank you guys for all of your answers and support. This site has been awesome about making me feel like I'm not alone and my thoughts aren't crazy or out of place.


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

That's awesome Riven!


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