# Misplaced resentment?



## wringo123 (Mar 8, 2015)

About seven years ago, before my H and I got married we bought a fixer upper and by we, I mean me.

He was self employed at the time and qualifying for a loan would have been difficult although his income was good. I was in a position to make a healthy down payment with an inheritance after my mom passed. We agreed that I would make the down payment and he would pay a larger percentage of the payment and renovations until we had roughly equal amounts invested. We were able to gut the kitchen and put in a nice new one, new siding, all new windows and a new roof since then but there is still a lot of interior work to be done. Bathrooms need to gutted, they are both hardly bigger than a walk in closet and almost all the plaster needs repair or replacement. I am embarrassed to even have my family over because of the way it looks and because it has been this way so long. Once things were equal financially it's like he just decided we were done. He is the one who wanted a fixer and had to talk me into it because I was afraid that this would happen...we'd start and never finish.

Finally, he has agreed the bathrooms have to be done because the tiles are literally cracking and falling off the wall. I suggested we do a cash out refinance to do it and we could get his name on the loan and title at the same time. He agreed but you'd think we were trying to buy an NFL team with the big deal he is making over it and how much he is stressing. He says he is fine with refinancing but admits he is apprehensive and doing it makes him nervous. We can comfortably afford the increased payments but he's acting like we are taking on some huge financial burden that could send us to the poor house. Our payment is going up $250 a month.

It just pisses me off that when it was my money and I was the only one financially responsible for the loan, he had no problem with gambling with my financial future or throwing the money my parents worked and sacrificed their whole lives for into a money pit. Now that he's got some skin in the game, actually following through with what he has always said he wanted to do is giving him a panic attack.

He is willing to do it and I have no doubt that he will follow through but it is his attitude that I resent. And I mean really really resent to the point I can hardly speak to him in a civil manner. Guess I am just looking for some validation that I'm not being unfair.



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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

I'm typically in favour of waiting until you can do it with cash/savings than loans or refinancing. 
If you put the extra $250 a month into a renovation fund, or more if you can, how long would it take you to pay for the needed stuff outright? Where does that $250 go now? 

I managed to do a kitchen and 2 bedrooms this way and it was worth the wait to do it from cash. I figured I lived with it that long I might as well wait a bit more. 

Do you split the mortgage payments? Do you have savings and emergency funds set up? 

Is he usually thrifty and frugal with money or just not wanting to put something in his name? Does he have a plan on how to get the reno money? 
Maybe there's some kind of compromise you guys can make.


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## wringo123 (Mar 8, 2015)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I'm typically in favour of waiting until you can do it with cash/savings than loans or refinancing.
> If you put the extra $250 a month into a renovation fund, or more if you can, how long would it take you to pay for the needed stuff outright? Where does that $250 go now?
> 
> I managed to do a kitchen and 2 bedrooms this way and it was worth the wait to do it from cash. I figured I lived with it that long I might as well wait a bit more.
> ...


There is no disagreement over whether or not we should do the refinance so there isn't anything to compromise on. We agree that is what we need to do. It's just the bfd he is making over it that pisses me off. When it's his money and his liability all of a sudden it's a huge financial risk he's stressing over...when its my money, not so much.

We have quotes of between 30k and 40k and that's just the bathrooms. You can do the math on how long it would take to save enough putting $250 a month towards saving. Meanwhile, the walls behind the tub and shower are rotting out from the moisture and the floor is caving in underneath the tub. We already have done over 60k in renovations out of pocket. 

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## wringo123 (Mar 8, 2015)

Just for context, the house was built in 1938 and when we bought it, everything but the roof and HVAC was original. It could be a beautiful house when fully renovated and the potential I knew it had was the only reason I agreed to get it.

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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

30k -40k just for the bathrooms seem like a lot to me.

Do you guys live in beverly hills?


Get some more estimates. Maybe consider being your own sub contractor. Or even diy.

I could buy rental property for 40k


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## wringo123 (Mar 8, 2015)

All the plumbing and electrical have to be replaced as they are not up to code and the floors and wall taken down to the studs because the wood is rotting from the moisture. In at least one of the bathrooms the floor joists need to be replaced because the tub is literally falling through. We also need to expand. The house was split into a duplex at one point so there are two tiny bathrooms right next to each other. We want to make one a half bath and expand the other to a somewhat normal size, nothing huge but right now when you sit on the toilet your knees hit the sink. I can touch all four walls when I stand in the middle . My point is, it's more than just updating the tile and fixtures. There is significant structural work that needs to be done.

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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

The problem with bathrooms is you need so many different tradesmen,plumbers,electricians,carpenters,tilers,air conditioning engineers,painters etc.If you are a building contractor you will have a ready access to these guys (or gals)but to go the sub contracting route means you have to arrange everything.You may need an electrician for example for half an hour one day or else everything gets held up but if he isn't available then the job grinds to a halt.You are also responsible for all the materials needed.
It's more expensive to get one contractor to do the whole job but it's quicker in the long run.


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

chillymorn69 said:


> 30k -40k just for the bathrooms seem like a lot to me.
> 
> Do you guys live in beverly hills?
> 
> ...


I agree, get some other quotes for the work. I renovated three bathrooms in my house, took then down to the studs, moved walls, re-routed pipes, new electrical, custom built cabinetry, the "works" ... one is a huge master bath (dual shower, standalone tub, his and hers vanities, walk-in closet, separate toilet room), one a normal sized full bath, the other a half bath ... all for $20K.


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## Handy (Jul 23, 2017)

* Wringo
between 30k and 40k and that's just the bathrooms. *

As Robin from the Batman series would say "Holy Smokes" that sounds expensive.

I do all of my own repairs, including remodeling 2 bathrooms and a kitchen, replacing the roof, windows and all of the doors inside and outside. I also replaced the furnace and put in a new whole house air conditioner. The bathrooms didn't need floor joist (but needed plywood replaced) and I did water resistant wall board and tile work (walls and floor) and replaced everything else for less than $3K. It took a while and the W didn't like that but one room at a time is doable but unhandy.

If you only have one bathroom and you are remodeling "IT" that is another problem that everyone has to consider. Having a usable bathroom while the remodeling goes on makes it less stressful. No usable bathroom during the remodel, well that is a problem and everything gets rushed. BTDT and it is not fun.

If I was the husband, I might say I was tired of working on the house but didn't want to spend that much money. It could be he doesn't want the conflict about the bathroom issue with the wife so agreed to hire out the work. It wouldn't have anything to do with "skin in the game" and letting the wife take the biggest risks. For me it would be about spending $40k on a bathroom and related repairs and avoiding marital conflicts.

I am not trying to criticize Wingo but to offer reasons the H does or says what he does. It is something to work with or consider.


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## wringo123 (Mar 8, 2015)

First of all the only reason I sunk my inheritance that my parents worked save and sacrificed for 60 years to provide was his promise that we would renovate top to bottom. I can't blame him for how long it's taken there have been other issues at work, but I can blame him for being such an ******* about it now that we are able to move forward with it.

I don't care if he's tired of working on the house. Not only did he promise, the bathroom is a safety issue and his own daughter has told him she doesn't want to bring her toddler here because of the condition the house is in.

I fulfilled my end of the bargain graciously even though it meant spending nearly my entire inheritance and all I expect is for him to do me the same courtesy and not ***** and moan about what a big deal it is.

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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Can you sell and move? Would you get back the initial money put in? 

A home that old will continue to have issues.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

First off, if you are having your bathroom remodeled and it will require significant upgrades and renovation you are NOT paying too much. Especially if there are structural issues. I work in the industry and what you are paying is actually a pretty good bargain. Yes, you can do it on the cheap and do it yourself by putting lip stick on a pig or you can fix everything that needs to be fixed in order to get it done right. So put that issue to bed because it isn't an issue regardless of what others say.
But more to the point, I think there may be some other things at play here that you may or may not have thought. First off is your H really having issues with taking on debt or is it just an issue with taking on debt for THIS. Is the bath reno, something he understands needs to be done or is it being remodeled into something he may not want (ie too extravagant)? Secondly if it isn't a matter of the bath, could the issue be taking an additional debt with you? I do not know how the rest of your marriage is going, I hope all is fine, but maybe he is having second thoughts about your relationship and is dragging his feet because he doesn't really want to get tied up with you on a debt obligation for an additional 15 to 30 years?
Personally I think this is one of those conversations you should be having with him and not some internet strangers.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Ynot said:


> First off, if you are having your bathroom remodeled and it will require significant upgrades and renovation you are NOT paying too much. Especially if there are structural issues. I work in the industry and what you are paying is actually a pretty good bargain. Yes, you can do it on the cheap and do it yourself by putting lip stick on a pig or you can fix everything that needs to be fixed in order to get it done right. So put that issue to bed because it isn't an issue regardless of what others say.
> But more to the point, I think there may be some other things at play here that you may or may not have thought. First off is your H really having issues with taking on debt or is it just an issue with taking on debt for THIS. Is the bath reno, something he understands needs to be done or is it being remodeled into something he may not want (ie too extravagant)? Secondly if it isn't a matter of the bath, could the issue be taking an additional debt with you? I do not know how the rest of your marriage is going, I hope all is fine, but maybe he is having second thoughts about your relationship and is dragging his feet because he doesn't really want to get tied up with you on a debt obligation for an additional 15 to 30 years?
> Personally I think this is one of those conversations you should be having with him and not some internet strangers.


30k to 40k apeice for a bathroom remodel. Seems extremely high to me.

It better be the best material and done by union carpenters. And even then it seem high. As for lipstick on a pig hyperbole thats what that is.

How about middle of the road material and nonunion workers. I did my bathroom for about 2000$ dollars in material .


How much is the house worth? If its a 100k then I would definatly shop around for a better estimate.

Noe if its 500k then maybe. Why would you put 40% of the houses value into a bathroom? Makes no sense.


But thats just me. Frugal to the e core.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

wringo123 said:


> All the plumbing and electrical have to be replaced as they are not up to code and the floors and wall taken down to the studs because the wood is rotting from the moisture. In at least one of the bathrooms the floor joists need to be replaced because the tub is literally falling through. We also need to expand. The house was split into a duplex at one point so there are two tiny bathrooms right next to each other. We want to make one a half bath and expand the other to a somewhat normal size, nothing huge but right now when you sit on the toilet your knees hit the sink. I can touch all four walls when I stand in the middle . My point is, it's more than just updating the tile and fixtures. There is significant structural work that needs to be done.
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


Ok that is a lot of work ! So maybe it would be quite expensive.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

chillymorn69 said:


> 30k to 40k apeice for a bathroom remodel. Seems extremely high to me.
> 
> It better be the best material and done by union carpenters. And even then it seem high. As for lipstick on a pig hyperbole thats what that is.
> 
> ...


Let's see, she said structural issues - floor joists, walls torn out, plumbing and electrical work. You might have spent $2k for materials to replace remodel your bathroom and it may be extraordinary, but unless you are got into the kind of stuff the OP getting into you are talking apples to oranges. Because we aren't talking about patching a few holes, throwing down some floor tile and replacing the fixtures. I have renovated three homes and remodeled and/or added bathrooms in each. I have completed hundreds of appraisals for just the type of thing the OP is talking about.. What she is paying is far from extravagant


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## Not (Jun 12, 2017)

We have a home built in 1911 with the rotting wood slats behind crumbling plaster walls. The electrical was wired by grandpa back in the day so not up to code, the plumbing is in desperate need of replacement, the basement floods on the regular and the latest issue is a gaping hole in the kitchen ceiling where a slow leak inside the wall in the bathroom upstairs soaked the plaster ceiling til it finally caved in. I know what you're facing Wringo.

We opted to not restore because it would have cost just about as much as we paid for the place and wouldn't have raised the value enough to justify the cost. We would have owed more than it would sell for. Its a tough situation to be in.


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## wringo123 (Mar 8, 2015)

Ynot said:


> Let's see, she said structural issues - floor joists, walls torn out, plumbing and electrical work. You might have spent $2k for materials to replace remodel your bathroom and it may be extraordinary, but unless you are got into the kind of stuff the OP getting into you are talking apples to oranges. Because we aren't talking about patching a few holes, throwing down some floor tile and replacing the fixtures. I have renovated three homes and remodeled and/or added bathrooms in each. I have completed hundreds of appraisals for just the type of thing the OP is talking about.. What she is paying is far from extravagant


The quote is for both bathrooms and the high figure includes a healthy contingency because of the electrical issues. we may have to update more of the electrical than just the bathrooms. The house is in a highly desirable historic area and similar homes in the area that have been renovated/remodeled are going for nearly 2 times what we will owe on the refinance. That potential is the only reason I agreed to buy it.

But of course, none of this addresses my original issue. I really don't understand what his attitude is about. He says he agrees and he knows a that we have to do it, but its like he is pissed now that he actually has to follow through with what we have always planned to do. It is making me wonder if he really ever had any intention of doing it when he convinced me to buy the house and hes mad that I am holding him to his word.


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## wringo123 (Mar 8, 2015)

Ynot said:


> First off, if you are having your bathroom remodeled and it will require significant upgrades and renovation you are NOT paying too much. Especially if there are structural issues. I work in the industry and what you are paying is actually a pretty good bargain. Yes, you can do it on the cheap and do it yourself by putting lip stick on a pig or you can fix everything that needs to be fixed in order to get it done right. So put that issue to bed because it isn't an issue regardless of what others say.
> But more to the point, I think there may be some other things at play here that you may or may not have thought. First off is your H really having issues with taking on debt or is it just an issue with taking on debt for THIS. Is the bath reno, something he understands needs to be done or is it being remodeled into something he may not want (ie too extravagant)? Secondly if it isn't a matter of the bath, could the issue be taking an additional debt with you? I do not know how the rest of your marriage is going, I hope all is fine, but maybe he is having second thoughts about your relationship and is dragging his feet because he doesn't really want to get tied up with you on a debt obligation for an additional 15 to 30 years?
> Personally I think this is one of those conversations you should be having with him and not some internet strangers.



Of course you are right about discussing it with him...I just was so angry with him I couldn't do it civilly and needed to vent. we had the daughter of a friend of ours who just graduated from architect school (her dad is an architect and he reviewed the plans) a few years ago. He denies that he has any issues with what we want to do or the amount of money it will cost.

I really think it is just buyers remorse now that he actually has to follow through on what he talked me into doing.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Yes, I think buyer's remorse is probably it. I know more than one person who was all in at the idea of a fixer but reality hit later in the process when it was too late. However, he agreed so he needs to follow through.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Ynot said:


> Let's see, she said structural issues - floor joists, walls torn out, plumbing and electrical work. You might have spent $2k for materials to replace remodel your bathroom and it may be extraordinary, but unless you are got into the kind of stuff the OP getting into you are talking apples to oranges. Because we aren't talking about patching a few holes, throwing down some floor tile and replacing the fixtures. I have renovated three homes and remodeled and/or added bathrooms in each. I have completed hundreds of appraisals for just the type of thing the OP is talking about.. What she is paying is far from extravagant


Look at my post just above your last post ! Where i corrected my opinion after i read the extensive work she was saying needs done.

But I still got to ask if its worth putting that type of money into any renovation . It should add value to the house .

If it still only going to be a 100k house. Then putting 80k into two bathrooms sonds like a mistake.

If the house is paid for rhen maybe but if you still owe a lot on it the thats not a sound finiancial move.

If you did it yourself then you would save all the labor .but you need to have some major carpentry skills to do it.

You could hire a carpenter to help you . And buy the material yourself then hire bathroom installers for the finished product . That would save some but its a major headache .


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## Lukedog (Nov 18, 2015)

I have a husband who seems to be the same way. He is NOT a handyman so it takes him hours just to get a sink unclogged. Or his big project for the day is getting the grass cut ( we have a very small lot...it takes 20 minutes to mow and a half hour to weed whack and trim!). My husband also seems to have turned into the type that doesn't want to spend the money on the big repairs. It seems the older he gets cheaper he gets....unless it's for him. We live in an older home that's in need of some major repairs....some repairs needed for the last ten years or so. And he is aware that these things need done and he will agree with me wholeheartedly that they need done...but he is the type of person that just can't get it done....procrastinator to the max! I'm the one who has to make things happen. 

I know his attitude is infuriating....I get it! You really need to talk with him to see if you can get to the root of the issue. As one poster said...he may be dragging his feet because now he may not want to spend the money .... Or get into more long term debt with you. If you still don't get any real answers from him then I would come up with a plan of my own. But you need to see what the attitude is all about. Good luck!


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

chillymorn69 said:


> Look at my post just above your last post ! Where i corrected my opinion after i read the extensive work she was saying needs done.
> 
> But I still got to ask if its worth putting that type of money into any renovation . It should add value to the house .
> 
> ...


Your post was posted while I was typing mine. So yes I see that you posted your correction. In regards to your question about value I believe the OP answered that in her last post. It is more than just carpentry skills, she has also said major plumbing and electrical system repairs. Depending on the extent of the structural issues, the house might need to be braced or at least sections of it. Replacing floor joists also means repairing the ceiling below. I do not think this is the type of project anyone would want to take on with just a little help. It is one that is best left to professionals who know what they are doing and who have the equipment necessary to do the job right.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

I see two issues being discussed.

1. The amount of work needed / the cost. 
2. Your husband having issues keeping a promise he made / being dependable. 

Let's not drown out too much of the real purpose behind the post.

Does your husband have issues keeping promises in other aspects of the relationship?

Some men are happy to have you pay and they just go along for the ride. Is he as invested in the renovation of this home as you seem to be?


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