# Nothing changes....



## ku1980rose (Sep 7, 2010)

I tell him I'm frustrated because we haven't had sex for 2 months.

Nothing changes.

I tell him I need him to spend time with his kids to know that he will be a good dad to ours.

Nothing changes.

Nothing ever changes. I've been frustrated about his kids a lot and we have discussions about it and our sex life a lot. He says he would do anything to make me happy and that he loves me and wants to have a family with me. Then why won't he go to the ends of the earth to prove that to me?

Am I asking too much?

Am I asking too much by asking my H to be the one to initiate sex?

Am I asking too much by asking my H to stand up and be the man in the relationship?


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## greeneyeddolphin (May 31, 2010)

From experience, having gone through this with my first husband: if he doesn't spend time with the kids he already has, that tells you what kind of dad he will be. Unless he can show you, beyond doubt, that the kids mother is stopping him from being in his kids lives, if he's not spending time with them, figure that he will not be any better with your kids. 

You keep talking, he keeps not doing anything about it. There's only so many times you can ask or demand that someone do something and if they still don't change, you have to accept that they just aren't going to.


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## ku1980rose (Sep 7, 2010)

Thanks for the reply. I guess I believed at first that his ex was keeping the kids from him, but then he slips up and tells me he does have 50/50 custody. I've never seen any custody papers or anything, so I don't know one way or another. However, I do know that he doesn't call them or text them. They both have their own cell phones, so that shouldn't be hard. I know he has had his feelings hurt by her and them. They don't really want to talk to him most of the time. But, he is the adult. He doesn't get to chose to give up because his feelings are hurt. The other night he claimed he does try to contact his kids and they won't talk. I told him that I check his phone often and look back through history and that I KNOW he is lying about that. He hasn't contacted his kids sine a few months ago when it was his son's birthday and at that time he only sent a text saying Happy Birthday. No card, no gift, no phone call. Who does that?

Thanks for letting me vent on here. It feels good to just get it all out and to know that I'm not going crazy.


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## HappyHer (Nov 12, 2009)

ku1980rose, Why would you expect your husband to treat kids that want nothing to do with him as if they were YOUR children so that you may sit on judgment of him to see if he's a good father or not? The way he treats these kids, with their mother who has done hurtful things to him is no comparison at all to how he'll treat the children he has with you within a loving household. 

It sounds as if these are older children and that he did wish his son a happy birthday. Most father's won't even do that when there is that sort of friction. Believe it or not, he may feel that he is acting in their best interest by trying not to upset them. 

My father kept his distance from me because he thought it would be easier for me by not upsetting my mom or causing me to feel caught in the middle. He did it out of love and it wasn't until years later that we became very close, and I know it was something very hard for him to miss me, yet keep his distance because he thought it was best. Was it best? Who knows, but I know he did it out of love and that's what matters. No one can say my father was a bad parent, just made a choice that many men make. 

Just because it's not what you would do, doesn't mean your husband is wrong or that he's a bad father, it just means you don't have a complete understanding of his actions and that makes you wrong. I really believe you owe him an apology for coming across so critical and disrespectful about this whole situation. I imagine his heart hurts deeply about this and if you really loved him, you may try to be a bit more supportive even if you don't understand his choices.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

If kids want nothing to do with their father, that speaks volumes about the man. If a man can communicate with his own kids but doesn't, that speaks volumes about him. Hurt feelings may be reason to not communicate with another adult, but it doesn't release a man from his duties as a father. If he lies about something as trivial as the number of times he has tried to talk to his kids, that speaks volumes about the man. You wish to see some evidence. What more evidence would you need? I know I view the world in simple terms but, in my opinion, if a man or a woman can't show love or commitment to their own kids, they have nothing to give that I would be interested in. Kids are going to hurt their parents. It just comes with the job. From time to time, spouses hurt each other. Withholding affection isn't an appropriate or mature response. Hiding from problems rather than honestly addressing them and fixing them isn't a desirable quality for a potential husband.


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## greeneyeddolphin (May 31, 2010)

HappyHer said:


> ku1980rose, Why would you expect your husband to treat kids that want nothing to do with him as if they were YOUR children so that you may sit on judgment of him to see if he's a good father or not? The way he treats these kids, with their mother who has done hurtful things to him is no comparison at all to how he'll treat the children he has with you within a loving household.


I have to say I disagree with you here. The way he treats his own flesh and blood, under the worst of circumstances, is a huge indicator of how he will treat his own flesh and blood under the best of circumstances. Whatever their mother has done to him has nothing to do with the children. My ex-husband cheated on me, lied to me, verbally, physically and sexually abused me. That doesn't mean my children should be punished; it's what their father did to me. I can ignore and mistreat him if I want to get payback for what he did to me; but to ignore or mistreat, or neglect my children is just wrong. 

And if he ignores these kids for what their mother did, then it seems to me he would follow that same pattern in this marriage. If the OP says or does something that angers or offends him, he'll do the same to these kids. Maybe to a lesser degree if they don't divorce, but still...the kids will still suffer for something that has nothing to do with them.


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## ku1980rose (Sep 7, 2010)

HappyHer said:


> ku1980rose, Why would you expect your husband to treat kids that want nothing to do with him as if they were YOUR children so that you may sit on judgment of him to see if he's a good father or not? The way he treats these kids, with their mother who has done hurtful things to him is no comparison at all to how he'll treat the children he has with you within a loving household.
> 
> It sounds as if these are older children and that he did wish his son a happy birthday. Most father's won't even do that when there is that sort of friction. Believe it or not, he may feel that he is acting in their best interest by trying not to upset them.
> 
> ...


His children are 12 and 14. And he has been this way with them for years. He said he didn't like it when they were younger and they wouldn't talk on the phone. I understand that it hurt his feelings, and I want to understand what he went through with his ex. However, he doesn't talk about anything with me. That is something we struggle with a lot and he will be the first to tell you that he needs to be able to let things out more and be able to share things with me. 

I'm not saying my way is the right way. But when we talk about how people should be with their children, we agree, and then he doesn't show it with his actions. I have been very supportive of him. He expressed that he wanted to see his kids more, but that he didn't have time away from work. Now, he does. He is in a job where he makes much less money and I support both of us with my job. Plus, he isn't alone. He has help when his kids are here. And still things have not changed. I would be more willing to understand if he would share things with me. He says he is not allowed to see them. Then he says he has 50/50 custody. I don't know what the facts are. I'm trying to understand, but he won't let me.

I don't feel that I'm wrong, because just as you said, I don't have a complete understanding of his actions....and that is not my fault. I have tried and tried to be understanding and to understand what is going on. If he won't let me in, what can I do?


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## ku1980rose (Sep 7, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> Withholding affection isn't an appropriate or mature response. Hiding from problems rather than honestly addressing them and fixing them isn't a desirable quality for a potential husband.


I totally agree with this statement. And the truth is, he hides from a lot of his problems. Such as his mom causing problems right before our wedding with me and she didn't even know me. Had been around me twice for about an hour. He has never done much to solve that problem and has tried to ignore it. He is like that with most of his problems. It's like he thinks if he ignores it all, it will go away. Out of sight, out of mind.


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## ku1980rose (Sep 7, 2010)

Last night we had a fight again. What's frustrating is that he never tells me anything, never tells me how he feels about anything or anything that is going on in his life. Last night he finally revealed that he was stressed out because he has quit chewing for over a week. And I was supposed to know?? It's not obvious when he chews because he doesn't spit in a cup. He's been doing it since he was 15, so he's pretty good at making it not obvious. But, now all of a sudden I am a B**** again because I didn't know. 

So, he doesn't ever tell me anything and then I tell him that I don't even know what to do anymore. We've been married for 4 months and we are just strangers living under the same roof. He blows up and says "You did this.....you caused all of this to happen.....it's all you!"

How do you reason with someone who responds like that?

I know I'm not perfect. I know I am 50/50 to blame, but "all me"??? That's a little unreasonable. And it's frustrating because I have pushed and pushed and pushed for us to work on things pretty much before the wedding and he has fought me about it the entire way.


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## HappyHer (Nov 12, 2009)

This situation comes across as classic Parental Alienation and is an unfortunately common syndrome even with the best of parents. It's so sad to see someone love their children, lose their children to parental alienation syndrome and then get persecuted from the ignorant masses about it. 

I've seen both excellent fathers and mothers become victims of their ex's unhealthy obsession with alienating their children from them after a divorce, some children are very strong, but most children will succumb to the dominant parent and that parent typically is the mother. Your husband's response of backing off isn't unloving, it's just he probably has no idea how to face this situation and yes, him reaching out to the children would upset them as they will feel torn and disloyal as their mom is being evil by coercing them into keeping their distance. Then your husband would feel even more hurt because he wants to love them, but his love also confuses and hurts his children more, and you can imagine the cycle that sets up.

With all hope, the children will one day take matters into their own hands, if that happens, they will come around on their own free will and the healing can begin, but until then, it's just not a pretty situation for anyone involved.

You may want to do a google search and start to research about this in order to understand better what might be going on.

ku1980rose, you are aware your husband has been hurt. This family of his is not about you, not about your marriage. If you truly want to work things out with your husband, then you need to back away from this part of his life. He may not even understand what exactly is happening himself and the way this is coming up, it's shutting him down more.

I would suggest getting the book Love and Respect, it's excellent and sounds as if it could really help get the two of you back on track.

The first year of marriage is the hardest, so hang in there. You married him for a reason and it's time to start focusing on those reasons.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

He has had 50/50 custody, since they were young? Why then was he just calling? Why hasn't he been with his kids 50% of their lives since the divorce? Just b/c it is difficult and b/c his ex might make it difficult is no excuse. Nothing but his steady, attentive love for them was necessary to undo the damage her lies might have done. But if he gave up on his kids, b/c it was easier than fighting or working out the logistics of having them with him 50% of the time, then that is all on him. 

Too many men blame exs for alienating the kids but if they were PRESENT in their children's lives every possible moment, that couldn't happen. Kids aren't stupid. They will judge by how he treats them, and over time they will see their mother's words for the lies they are.


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## HappyHer (Nov 12, 2009)

sisters359, I've seen fathers and mothers insist on keeping visitation and do everything possible to create closeness with their children and all it did was leave the children completely screwed up because they would go home, get grilled by the other parent and punished in some way or another for loving the other parent.

One case I've seen the father finally told the child, after years of forcing the child to come over and the father turning himself inside to show him love "Do what you want". He didn't see his child for two years. The two are close today. The child understands what was going on, but it took the courage of the man to back away in love in order to stop the abuse cycle the child was suffering at the hands of his mother. Until that happened, the child did not have the opportunity to fully realize what was going on. 

Parental Alienation syndrome is not just about one parent lying about another parent, there can be some deep abuse and trauma going on - not physically, but mental manipulation. No matter how smart a child is, they are going to be effected and yes it can and does happen regardless of how involved the other parent stays.


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## ku1980rose (Sep 7, 2010)

HAPPYHER

Thank you for your advice. I've heard of parental alienation and it could be what he is experiencing. However, I don't know if that is what she did to him, or if he just chooses not to try because he won't tell me anything that is going on. I am trying to get him to talk more about it every day. I'll read more about it online.


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## ku1980rose (Sep 7, 2010)

sisters359 said:


> He has had 50/50 custody, since they were young? Why then was he just calling? Why hasn't he been with his kids 50% of their lives since the divorce? Just b/c it is difficult and b/c his ex might make it difficult is no excuse. Nothing but his steady, attentive love for them was necessary to undo the damage her lies might have done. But if he gave up on his kids, b/c it was easier than fighting or working out the logistics of having them with him 50% of the time, then that is all on him.
> 
> Too many men blame exs for alienating the kids but if they were PRESENT in their children's lives every possible moment, that couldn't happen. Kids aren't stupid. They will judge by how he treats them, and over time they will see their mother's words for the lies they are.


My thoughts exactly. I feel that this is what happened. It was easier to give up than fight. Easier to say he had not time from work, than fight. I always believed that not having enough time from work had a lot to do with it. When his kids were younger, they couldn't be left alone at the house in the summer while he did harvest. However, now that he has time, nothing has changed. That is my biggest frustration, whether it was brought on by his ex keeping the kids away from him, or his work responsibilities, or whatever.


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## ku1980rose (Sep 7, 2010)

HappyHer said:


> sisters359, I've seen fathers and mothers insist on keeping visitation and do everything possible to create closeness with their children and all it did was leave the children completely screwed up because they would go home, get grilled by the other parent and punished in some way or another for loving the other parent.
> 
> One case I've seen the father finally told the child, after years of forcing the child to come over and the father turning himself inside to show him love "Do what you want". He didn't see his child for two years. The two are close today. The child understands what was going on, but it took the courage of the man to back away in love in order to stop the abuse cycle the child was suffering at the hands of his mother. Until that happened, the child did not have the opportunity to fully realize what was going on.
> 
> Parental Alienation syndrome is not just about one parent lying about another parent, there can be some deep abuse and trauma going on - not physically, but mental manipulation. No matter how smart a child is, they are going to be effected and yes it can and does happen regardless of how involved the other parent stays.


I understand a lot of what you are saying, but I just don't know if this fits his situation. I don't think he is doing it to help his children. He has told me that the kids don't want to talk to him when he calls and so he just doesn't call. to me, that sounds like he got his feelings hurt and then avoids getting his feelings hurt anymore.


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

I understand what HappyHer is saying...but ignorant masses? Really? So "they" have recognized a pattern, attached a "syndrome" name to it and that gives the alienated parent a reason to back off. It might screw the kids up. It might not, either. There is no "one size fits all" to this. The child(ren) could just as easily grow up and wonder why the hell dad (or whichever parent) didn't keep trying to stay in their lives. And resent the hell outta him for his failure to do so. 

Each situation is different and has to be carefully evaluated as it pertains to them personally. It's a sad state of affairs when divorce courts have to place clauses in the decree telling the custodial parent how to behave when it comes to the kids. And worse, they sometimes just don't do it. Don't have their children's best interests at heart. 

I think your husband took the easy way out. He had 50/50 custody, and didn't exercise his right to have his children part time. If he had done so, at least he'd have the kids half the time to try to undo some of the damage the other parent might be inflicting by her actions. That being said, I'd carefully weigh my option about having children. This COULD (as in MAYBE) be your kids' future if you divorce, regardless of how YOU treat the situation. The reality is you really have no way of knowing for sure.


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## greeneyeddolphin (May 31, 2010)

Here's the problem I have with the parental alienation theory: While I agree there are parents who do this, backing off so as not to confuse the children really only serves to help the parent attempting to do the alienating. When you back off, then the parent trying to alienate you has that to throw at the kids: "See, if Dad/Mom really loved you, he/she'd be here...but he/she isn't, so what does that tell you?" And since Dad/Mom isn't there to defend themselves, the kid figures it must be true. 

So while I do agree that some parents do this, I also have to think that the alienated parent is contributing to it, in part, if they back off. If, instead, they would continue to fight to see their kids, and get them in therapy if they really feel the kids are getting confused or upset or whatever, the alienation wouldn't be quite so easy for the other parent to attain. 

As to the original situation here, I think, instead of looking at our suggestions of what could be and saying "hmm...maybe", you need to look at what is really going on and what you feel/think about it. If you really think his ex is making it impossible, or that his kids don't want anything to do with him (although, then I'd wonder why), then trust that. If you really think that this is his issue, that he's the one letting it all go and ignoring the kids, then trust that. Either way, I would not even consider having kids with him until you get something figured out.


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## ku1980rose (Sep 7, 2010)

major misfit said:


> I understand what HappyHer is saying...but ignorant masses? Really? So "they" have recognized a pattern, attached a "syndrome" name to it and that gives the alienated parent a reason to back off. It might screw the kids up. It might not, either. There is no "one size fits all" to this. The child(ren) could just as easily grow up and wonder why the hell dad (or whichever parent) didn't keep trying to stay in their lives. And resent the hell outta him for his failure to do so.
> 
> Each situation is different and has to be carefully evaluated as it pertains to them personally. It's a sad state of affairs when divorce courts have to place clauses in the decree telling the custodial parent how to behave when it comes to the kids. And worse, they sometimes just don't do it. Don't have their children's best interests at heart.
> 
> I think your husband took the easy way out. He had 50/50 custody, and didn't exercise his right to have his children part time. If he had done so, at least he'd have the kids half the time to try to undo some of the damage the other parent might be inflicting by her actions. That being said, I'd carefully weigh my option about having children. This COULD (as in MAYBE) be your kids' future if you divorce, regardless of how YOU treat the situation. The reality is you really have no way of knowing for sure.


I agree completely. You took the words right out of my mouth. This is really how I"ve been feeling about this the whole time, but I am willing to look at all sides and try to understand. I just don't think it should all be chalked up to a "syndrome"


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## ku1980rose (Sep 7, 2010)

From what I am reading about PAS, it is when one parent belittle or vilifies the other parent and so the child starts to think this way also. Now that I've read definitions, I do no think this is the case with my H. I don't think it has a lot to do with how the kids treat him. When they do visit, they are very happy to be with him. This is partly because he doesn't ask them to visit very often. I think what he was referring to when he said they wouldn't talk to him on the phone is when kids just choose not to talk to their parent on the phone. Kids don't understand the importance and when they are busy doing something else, they say they don't want to talk to dad/mom. It takes away from their fun time. They have gotten to where their dad is a stranger on the phone. I truly feel my H quit fighting for his kids because he didn't want to argue with his ex over who would pick them up, how long they could be gone, when child support would be sent, etc, etc, etc. Plus, when the kids do visit and they leave, it makes him very sad that they are going back. So, he avoids these feelings by not seeing them. "Outta sight, outta mind" That is what I think he is doing in his own way. It's easier to just not think about something then go through the pain of trying to fix it. Just like my H's relationship with me, and his mother, and various people in his life. he just completely avoids the issue. I think he feels if he is just nice and doesn't say anything that people can't think of him as "mean", and he doesn't have to get his feelings hurt.


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