# Marriage vs. Long term domestic partnership



## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

After doing some research and a lot of thinking on this I really can't see any other differences between marriage and a long term domestic partnership other then tax advantages/benefits which are good yes but if the marriage doesn't work out it could be financially disasters for both parties with the only exception being child support which is obligated regardless of marital status so other than tax incentives and a great party to celebrate the union what are the benefits of getting married vs a domestic partnership exactly...



I'm really curious to here what you think


----------



## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

It really breaks my heart when young unmarried moms come on here and lament that their POS BF has been sleeping around after getting them pregnant. 

I think it is a great protective influence on the children, and somewhat on the moms too, that they have the legal backing of a marriage.

Anyone who allows herself to get pregnant without being married first, in my opinion, is being a real fool.


----------



## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Sometimes there may be a different level of commitment, but not in my personal experience. As for murphy5's opinion, I think that it's possible marriage would sometimes make a difference, but the behavior he laments may well happen regardless and may even prevent these women from seeking a better person for a partner.

I'm more in favor of a mutual LTR than marriage - aside from those benefits you mention which may be a deciding factor in some situations.


----------



## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

murphy5 said:


> *It really breaks my heart when young unmarried moms come on here and lament that their POS BF has been sleeping around after getting them pregnant. *
> 
> I think it is a great protective influence on the children, and somewhat on the moms too, that they have the legal backing of a marriage.
> 
> Anyone who allows herself to get pregnant without being married first, in my opinion, is being a real fool.




And it also breaks my heart to hear about married women who say the same thing there is no difference


----------



## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Is there a difference between a paper cup and a champagne flute?


----------



## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

Hicks said:


> Is there a difference between a paper cup and a champagne flute?



:scratchhead: Your point being


----------



## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

I've never done the numbers but I think the majority of those posting here on CWI are legally married. People with the propensity to cheat are going to do so whether they've said their vows or not. It seems obvious to me but the going through divorce section is also full of people who were MARRIED (a prerequisite to divorce ) and many of them have children. It seems foolish to me to assume that marriage will prevent things like infidelity, abandonment, abuse, sexual dysfunction or other relationship discord and incompatibilities. 

As a Canadian living in Ontario, much of the same rights granted in an official marriage are granted to those who are living in a long-term, domestic partnership. (Spousal support, child support, death/survivor's benefits of a spouse, health, life insurance policies, income tax savings etc.) For those that are not automatically granted (automatic equalization of net family property during divorce) to the couple there are other legal ways of protecting your self/selves (Wills, Powers of Attorney, Cohabitation Agreements, Separation Agreements) and any children should a death or separation occur. 

On the other side of the coin, although there is no year-long waiting period to initiate a divorce for unmarried couples, there still is a lot of the other hassles both tangible and emotional when it comes to dissolving those relationships. I'm not legally married but during our separation, which I intended to be permanent at the time there were still issues to work through such as who stayed in the house, custody, child support and even spousal support. So contrary to popular opinion, just because two people aren't legally married to each other doesn't mean that it's not also difficult and complicated as it is for marrieds, to leave.

Save abiding by religion, appeasing family or other social mores, or the false sense of superiority one feels for being married as opposed to someone foolishly shacking up, there is no real reason to legally marry other than the desire to do so. 

All of that said, I am not opposed to marriage but it's not something I've seen as a requirement for MYSELF.


----------



## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

The fact that this question is asked at all points out that as a legal institution marriage has failed. We considered a few weeks ago the idea of a renewable contract. an indication that we really don't see marriage as long term.

But enough of the lament. You asked what is the benefit? legal authority is the benefit. You propose to join finances buy real estate together and to jointly care for a child or many children, without a legally binding agreement. 
Would you buy a car without a legally binding agreement. Sure it could cost you a lot if you stopped making payments It could cost the seller a lot if he didn't deliver the car, but are those good reasons not to sign the agreement?
MN


----------



## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

Mr. Nail said:


> The fact that this question is asked at all points out that as a legal institution marriage has failed. We considered a few weeks ago the idea of a renewable contract. an indication that we really don't see marriage as long term.
> 
> But enough of the lament. You asked what is the benefit? legal authority is the benefit. You propose to join finances buy real estate together and to jointly care for a child or many children, without a legally binding agreement.
> Would you buy a car without a legally binding agreement. Sure it could cost you a lot if you stopped making payments It could cost the seller a lot if he didn't deliver the car, but are those good reasons not to sign the agreement?
> MN




Unless I'm mistaken there is nothing to stop two people from going to an attorney and having papers drawn up for a contract of shared resources


----------



## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

xakulax,
I'm posting this separately because it is totaly unrelated to the other reply. 
You listed as one of the few benefits to marriage as a huge party to celebrate the union. Being male I may be gender blind, but a big wedding does very little to help a young couple. In fact at the levels seen these days, more harm than good comes from it. Debt, tempers, delay of marriage to raise funds, to name a few. You are young and considering marriage (if I recall correctly ) so I hope I am not wasting words. Concentrate on the marriage not the wedding. 
OK enough side arguments back to the main topic.
MN


----------



## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

Mr. Nail said:


> xakulax,
> I'm posting this separately because it is totaly unrelated to the other reply.
> You listed as one of the few benefits to marriage as a huge party to celebrate the union. Being male I may be gender blind, but a big wedding does very little to help a young couple. In fact at the levels seen these days, more harm than good comes from it. Debt, tempers, delay of marriage to raise funds, to name a few. You are young and considering marriage (if I recall correctly ) so I hope I am not wasting words. Concentrate on the marriage not the wedding.
> OK enough side arguments back to the main topic.
> MN




I'm not considering marriage at the moment due to being single but I can't say how I would feel the future I'm just curious to know what others think on matter


----------



## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

xakulax said:


> Unless I'm mistaken there is nothing to stop two people from going to an attorney and having papers drawn up for a contract of shared resources


Xakulax, 
Given an absence of religious requirements I would be happy with that. In fact they could probably get a better contract than most marriage laws. This would be very little different from a prenuptial agreement. 

You See from this reply that my belief is that marriage really is a religious convention that the government has unsuccessfully meddled in.
MN


----------



## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Mr. Nail said:


> legal authority is the benefit. You propose to join finances buy real estate together and to jointly care for a child or many children, without a legally binding agreement.


Legal authority may sometimes come into play. However, it can be a negative, as well as a positive.

If you jointly buy real estate when not married, ownership can be specified by a contract, and can be unequal depending on who pays the most or adjusted for "sweat equity." If you're married, the property is probably considered equally owned, even when one party has not contributed. That may not be fair, so marriage can impose penalties.

Responsibility for supporting children is covered under the law, whether married or not. If married, you may even be held legally responsible for children not your own, whereas there is a higher burden of proof if not married.


----------



## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

xakulax said:


> :scratchhead: Your point being


Paper cups are cheaper and easier to dispose of.
Yet, you are not going to drink an important champagne out of them.


----------



## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

Married but Happy said:


> Legal authority may sometimes come into play. However, it can be a negative, as well as a positive.
> 
> If you jointly buy real estate when not married, ownership can be specified by a contract, and can be unequal depending on who pays the most or adjusted for "sweat equity." If you're married, the property is probably considered equally owned, even when one party has not contributed. That may not be fair, so marriage can impose penalties.
> 
> Responsibility for supporting children is covered under the law, whether married or not. If married, *you may even be held legally responsible for children not your own*, whereas there is a higher burden of proof if not married.




WOW I never consider that.. you are absolutely right


----------



## inquizitivemind (Jul 16, 2013)

Other than the wedding and the "official" gathering of your family and friends, which could be done as some other kind of party, there really is no difference. I got married because of my religion, but it doesn't mean I think it is for everyone. It definitely doesn't mean that it will last any longer, as we see the divorce rate is over 50%. 

So basically, OP, I don't see a big difference. One is not better than the other unless you do so for religious reasons.


----------



## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

Hicks said:


> Paper cups are cheaper and easier to dispose of.
> Yet, you are not going to drink an important champagne out of them.


That's a cute logical fallacy. uppy:

And if we look at SIM, CWI and other boards on this forum, we'd see that there are a lot of people actively sh!tting in their expensive champagne flutes. Owning the flute doesn't guarantee that it's contents will be good or pure.


----------



## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

xakulax said:


> After doing some research and a lot of thinking on this I really can't see any other differences between marriage and a long term domestic partnership other then tax advantages/benefits which are good yes but if the marriage doesn't work out it could be financially disasters for both parties with the only exception being child support which is obligated regardless of marital status so other than tax incentives and a great party to celebrate the union what are the benefits of getting married vs a domestic partnership exactly...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really curious to here what you think


Yes there's a huge difference..for people with integrity.

A domestic partnership is...yes I like you and I can't foresee us not being together....but.....let's just live together...JUST IN CASE one of us, or both of us wants out.

A marriage is a commitment, on paper, in front of whatever god or entity you worship (if applicable), your family, your friends, society as a whole and most important to the person you're with that you will always be there for each other.

One is a plan with an escape clause, the other isn't.

Now obviously, not all marriages work out the way I lay it out, but that's a different issue.

I always love the "why bother getting married, we're basically married now...." No you're not...it's like pregnant. Either you're fully committed or you aren't, there's no "pregnant-ish".


----------



## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

xakulax said:


> And it also breaks my heart to hear about married women who say the same thing there is no difference


But are we playing monday morning quarterback?

It's easy to say "marriage is xyz" because of 50% divorce rate. or whatever other stat or situation you want to lay out.

But I'm speaking from an individual's perspective. If you, yourself were in a long term relationship and your partner suddenly says, let's fly to vegas this weekend and get married.....would you look at that as a major change or like you're changing the brand of toilet paper you buy.

If it's a major change...then obviously it's not the same thing or even close.


----------



## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

Dad&Hubby said:


> Yes there's a huge difference..for people with integrity.
> 
> A domestic partnership is...yes I like you and I can't foresee us not being together....but.....let's just live together...JUST IN CASE one of us, or both of us wants out.
> 
> ...





I'm sorry but no.. Anyone living together for years on end do so because they want to be together if things don't work out then yes they can go their separate ways but you can say the same thing for married couples who divorce.. Relationships are a commitment not marriage marriage is just a label place upon two people by religion and government I personally know of two people who have been together for 47 years with two kids that are now both college graduates and they are not marred I wouldn't consider that "let's just live together" I would consider that a strong relationship..


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

'Being married' can mean a couple of different things though.

There's the religious aspect, which to many is important, and is the main reason to get married. Saying vows before whatever deity you worship seals the deal.

There's the legal aspect. Legal clout and all that. There are pros and cons to it from a legal standpoint, depending on where you live and whether there are children, property, etc etc etc.

And then there's just living together. I know couples who live together and have never officially gotten married, but they call themselves married.

I think that after you have cohabitated for a certain period of time, most first world countries will now grant the same legal rights as a legally married couple, so to me, the legalities don't really matter.

You can have a 'wedding ceremony' without becoming legally married if you want to. My daughter doesn't want to ever get married, but she does want to do a handfasting (don't ask me a bunch of questions about it - I only know what it is in the most general terms)

I think that if I were to become divorced or widowed, I would not remarry. If I found someone I enjoyed enough to live with, I'd just leave it at that. I *might* get married if it was extremely important to them, but it would NOT be something I saw as a dealbreaker.


----------



## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

Dad&Hubby said:


> But are we playing monday morning quarterback?
> 
> It's easy to say "marriage is xyz" because of 50% divorce rate. or whatever other stat or situation you want to lay out.
> 
> ...



I think the first question I would ask my partner would be why the all of a sudden change in view point on the relationship If after years of being together she decide she wanted to elope in Vegas I would ask why.


----------



## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

From a commitment stand-point, I think commitment is in your heart, not on a piece of paper. So, really, marriage is a legal thing. If, in the United States, it was the same financially to file your income taxes married or single, if you could make medical decisions about your long-term partner, etc. then there wouldn't be as much incentive to marry. In Canada, married people both file separately no matter what. There is no income tax advantage to being married vs. being single.

Marriage in the States is also a medical thing since many people rely on the medical insurance they get through their spouse's employment. That was one reason I was legally separated instead of divorced - I lost my job and needed my ex's medical insurance for myself and my kids. Now I have free healthcare in Canada and wouldn't have to worry about medical coverage as something to consider if I thought about getting married again (and stayed).


----------



## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

I lived with my ex husband for about 4 years before we were married. I personally found that the biggest difference between living together and getting married was where you filed the paperwork. 

When I moved in, we went to the lawyer and signed a Co-habitation agreement. That was notarized and a copy was left with the attorney and a copy was kept with us. When we got engaged, we drafted a pre-nup that had mostly the same terms and did the same thing. Not long before our wedding, my ex needed major surgery, so we created wills and designated our powers of attorney, living wills, etc. Those of course, had to be redone not long after the wedding since my name had changed. What was interesting was all the paperwork it took to designate someone other than my husband as having my medical power of attorney, etc.

For me, not being especially religious, the decision to marry wasn't nearly as big to me as deciding to give up my space and a lot of my stuff and move into his house. Once I'd given up my freedom in the first place, filing a certificate, throwing a party and buying some jewelry didn't change much. And I don't think that it would have been any easier to decide to leave after 10 years regardless of having the wedding or not.

In retrospect, my biggest regret about actually getting married was not researching the financial implications more carefully. Marriage was one of my biggest financial mistakes ever. Turns out the tax benefits of marriage only work if you have children, a huge mortgage, and/or a spouse that makes far less than the other. Two decent wage earners in a nearly-paid for house and a deep commitment to remaining child-free get raked over the coals when it comes to federal taxes. 

That said, I think that if you're planning on procreating, marriage makes a lot of the legalities and processes of that whole process simpler, for sure. If you're not a kid-type, then I think you just have to follow your instincts on which path to take. Just make sure that you're legally protected either way.


----------



## scatty (Mar 15, 2013)

I have lived with my SO for 24 years, and he just proposed last week. He did propose back in 1992 when I was pregnant with our first child, but I thought it was too soon. We were dating for 2.5 at that time. 

We are both fairly complex people, and we got to know each other slowly all these years. We grew together, but never felt the need to marry. 

There is no common law marriage in the state we live in. We are marrying so I can claim his social security eventually and make medical decisions/next of kin because he is having major surgery within a year. We found a cheap elopement package just for us and while it will be romantic, I doubt it will change our relationship or our commitment to each other.


----------



## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

For me, marriage wasn't about the legalities - as many have said, most of those are the same for defacto or married anyways.

For us, it was about the bond, commitment being united. I love that me, hubby and the little person all have the same name now. We're a team, us against the world kind of thing, lol.

Hubby and I lived together for just over a year prior to marriage, and though I can't explain why, it does feel different to be married vs living together. I feel more secure being married. Maybe it's silly, I don't know, but that's how I feel.


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

frusdil said:


> For me, marriage wasn't about the legalities - as many have said, most of those are the same for defacto or married anyways.
> 
> *For us, it was about the bond, commitment being united. I love that me, hubby and the little person all have the same name now. We're a team, us against the world kind of thing, lol.
> *
> *Hubby and I lived together for just over a year prior to marriage, and though I can't explain why, it does feel different to be married vs living together. I feel more secure being married. Maybe it's silly, I don't know, but that's how I feel.*


I resonate with your post... I lived with my H's parents since I was 18... then we moved into a little house of our own, I was so excited to plan our BIG DAY...we walked down the aisle 8 months later....it was something we anticipated for years... we also waited for intercourse.. (which others would think we were freaking crazy!)... I only say this to just how special I feel Marriage really is ... I am a Romantic and I always dreamed of who I would marry, this very special man I wanted to give my ALL to..(and for him to be ALL MINE).... it meant everything to me.. 

I would not have even considered a man who didn't believe in Marriage.. This was the greatest, most profound decision of my life...I wanted to be "one" with another, united.. to give my heart, soul and body...and from this union...bring forth a family... marriage our foundation....

People can call me Dizzy, too romantic & go on about "it's just a piece of paper"... I just don't see it like that..there is this sense of Commitment for life... that this person before us wanted to give their ALL to us in every sense.. making it official before family, friends, co-workers...speaking vows to have & to hold, the love , honor & cherish ... these things uplift me, and inspire me... our wedding day was the most happy of our lives...outside of the births of our children...


----------



## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

xakulax said:


> :scratchhead: Your point being


Point is they both hold liquid, it's only our perception that makes any difference.


----------



## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

For me, marriage means a mutual commitment of emotional priority and sexual exclusivity that a "domestic partnership" does not necessarily entail. Therefore, I think there is a difference.

For those who have different ideas about what each of these arrangements means, there might be no difference.


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

breeze said:


> *Point is they both hold liquid, it's only our perception that makes any difference.*


I agree, it is our perception.. our perceptions have an impact on how we view our world, what we want from our experience here ...how we envision our futures even..

I had some beautiful examples of happy marriages growing up -to help build my own perception ... but I also saw equally as many that failed miserably... 

Out of this...each of us has our own view, whether socially conditioned.. or what not...to view things through their own filter / perspective.

Depending on how we perceive things, we may see the glass either as half-empty or as half-full...depending on the subject matter.


----------



## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I agree, it is our perception.. our perceptions have an impact on how we view our world, what we want from our experience here ...how we envision our futures even..
> 
> I had some beautiful examples of happy marriages growing up -to help build my own perception ... but I also saw equally as many that failed miserably...
> 
> ...


And perception can be changed as well. I once thought as you and honestly would have been on here saying marriage is different and special. I believed that once and was happy in that notion. I picked wrong and paid a terrible price for it, not financially but emotionally. 

I now, and admit it's unfortunate, only see marriage as a gamble. Even with a pre-nup which I would never EVER marry again without, is still a risk. And I wonder to myself would I ever take that risk again when I don't have to. Maybe I'm really hoping at some point I will be with someone or in some circumstance where I say the risk of marriage is worth it. But I just don't know why I would


----------



## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

xakulax said:


> I'm sorry but no.. Anyone living together for years on end do so because they want to be together if things don't work out then yes they can go their separate ways but you can say the same thing for married couples who divorce.. Relationships are a commitment not marriage marriage is just a label place upon two people by religion and government I personally know of two people who have been together for 47 years with two kids that are now both college graduates and they are not marred I wouldn't consider that "let's just live together" I would consider that a strong relationship..


When I look at the difference between a domestic partnership vs a marriage, I'm looking at the choice as it's going to be made, not looking after the fact. That is the difference.

Of course many marriages end in divorce, and there are domestic partnerships that last a long time. But there is something to be said about the extra layer of commitment that a person takes when they commit to marriage. It's wonderful you know a couple who've been together for 47 years without being married. I've known a lot of couples who lived together and never married. You'd always hear ONE of the people make comments about how they don't need to go through a wedding and how they are the same as being married etc....and then break up at the 5-7 year mark.

I'd love to see a study about the long term success rate of couples who are together for more than 20 years and weren't married. I bet it's a much lower number than 52% (The census shows that 48% of first marriages end at 20 years).

People who cohabitate tend to be more independent with poor views of marriage. 

So do I get to say....uhmmm sorry but no? LOL


----------



## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

xakulax said:


> I think the first question I would ask my partner would be why the all of a sudden change in view point on the relationship If after years of being together she decide she wanted to elope in Vegas I would ask why.


Good deflection to avoid my point.

But as was stated. This is a perception issue. I, personally, perceive marriage to being a logical "next step" in your commitment to someone that you live with. 

A couple can have an incredibly strong and committed relationship without ever being married. They could live their entire lives in that situation, not being married doesn't detract from their relationship. I'm speaking of MY own thoughts. If I'm planning on spending the rest of my life with someone, I'm going to make a vow to them in the strongest way possible, which is marriage. Marriage, in my view, isn't just a "piece of paper" or "a lawful process", those are the minor components of marriage. Marriage, to me, is a lifetime commitment/contract, between two people said in the firmest way possible.


----------



## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Here's another way we can look at it,

Would any qualified adult here accept employment with a company without first reading or inquiring about benefits, reading and signing a contract?

Well , that's the point.

To some it won't matter because they're not looking at building a career.

To others , it matters because they see their professional skills as valuable and feel they can add value to the organization. They get a sense of achievement in their labors and the institution rewards them.

" _vive la difference.._"


----------



## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Dad&Hubby said:


> When I look at the difference between a domestic partnership vs a marriage, I'm looking at the choice as it's going to be made, not looking after the fact. That is the difference.
> 
> Of course many marriages end in divorce, and there are domestic partnerships that last a long time. But there is something to be said about the extra layer of commitment that a person takes when they commit to marriage. It's wonderful you know a couple who've been together for 47 years without being married. I've known a lot of couples who lived together and never married. You'd always hear ONE of the people make comments about how they don't need to go through a wedding and how they are the same as being married etc....and then break up at the 5-7 year mark.
> 
> ...


I am missing something here. What is it you're saying "but no?" to? [EDIT: I read a subsequent post you made, and I think you explained your thinking there.]

No doubt you are right that after 20 years, there is a lower percentage of unmarried couples still together than married couples. I would contend that's a good thing, because to me that implies that those who broke up didn't feel locked into a bad relationship, because it was easier to exit. They would not have the financial hit of the cost of divorce, either.

Thus, I think that more unmarried couples who remain together after 20 years are happier than many of the married couples at that point.


----------



## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Dad&Hubby said:


> When I look at the difference between a domestic partnership vs a marriage, I'm looking at the choice as it's going to be made, not looking after the fact. That is the difference.
> 
> Of course many marriages end in divorce, and there are domestic partnerships that last a long time. But there is something to be said about the extra layer of commitment that a person takes when they commit to marriage. It's wonderful you know a couple who've been together for 47 years without being married. I've known a lot of couples who lived together and never married. You'd always hear ONE of the people make comments about how they don't need to go through a wedding and how they are the same as being married etc....and then break up at the 5-7 year mark.
> 
> ...


I get what your saying and don't disagree with it. A large part of the reason I am comfortable with living with a woman and not marrying is the ease at which, if this needed to break apart, it could. I mean physically if we ended for ANY reason she could have all her stuff out reasonably in a week or two. No court process involved and then we are done. So on the one side of the coin I'm sure this mentality does lead to fewer long term 20+ years of just LTR

The other side of the coin is how many marriages stay together not because they are healthy or good but rather because of the difficulty in getting divorce, fear of getting screwed in family court financially or with custody and fear of the stigma of divorce and trying to out their life back together? My guess would be many.


----------



## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Let me also just add that I'm speaking from my POV. I understand everyone is going to have a different POV. 

I'm speaking for me and my life only.


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Wolf1974 said:


> And perception can be changed as well. I once thought as you and honestly would have been on here saying marriage is different and special. I believed that once and was happy in that notion. I picked wrong and paid a terrible price for it, not financially but emotionally.
> 
> I now, and admit it's unfortunate, only see marriage as a gamble. Even with a pre-nup which I would never EVER marry again without, is still a risk. And I wonder to myself would I ever take that risk again when I don't have to. Maybe I'm really hoping at some point I will be with someone or in some circumstance where I say the risk of marriage is worth it. But I just don't know why I would


Some pay dear financially as well as emotionally.. one plus I guess Wolf...

If there is any reality I have learned here on this forum ..It is *>> * to how many started out with HOPE, the best of intentions.. in regards to Love, Marriage and ever after... then they were betrayed in the deepest way.. that foundation was ripped from them.. their trust, that belief is NO MORE.. it has been severely tainted... it would take a whole lot to go there again...with anyone...

This just speaks to how strongly our PAST...and the hurts that came along with it, affect our Perception...we then see the world through those glasses of experience... 

For those who do want marriage, the pool is getting smaller & smaller to find others who feel the same..men are growing increasingly weary...

Reading a little about perceptions earlier...



> Women's changing perception of marriage
> 
> Take away the religious connotations and marriage is really just a piece of paper. It is a form; the relationship is the substance. So it really shouldn’t be shocking to read about women who think that marriage, as we know it, is outmoded. Human relationships will stay but just how important the formality of such relationships is will always depend on the prevailing social values.
> 
> ...





> Changing attitudes toward marriage and children in six countries
> 
> One of the strongest patterns found in the study was that “those who attend religious services at least once a month hold significantly more traditional views about marriage and children.”
> 
> One distinct commonality cross-nationally was that “in all countries in this study, respondents who are women, never married, better educated, employed and relatively secularized hold less traditional views about marriage and children.” -


----------



## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

The option to marry has always been on the table for us but it's something I've always declined or postponed. I fail to see how I would feel more committed emotionally, sexually, intellectually to my current spouse or any spouse on account of being legally married. My family (those I speak to) respect my choices and relationship. His family takes our relationship seriously and so do any of our friends whether married, single or in DP's themselves. We are equal partners in parenting our kids (10 and almost 2) and our kids love us both and are loved equally by us. So it wouldn't change anything in our family, relationship or socially as far as I can predict.

I think that for some people the symbolism behind marriage is very important. I can understand the feelings behind it but they are not feelings that I share. Because with divorces so easily come by these days and much of the social stigma of divorce removed, I just don't see it as strong of a commitment as it once was. It might take a little longer and more money to leave a marriage than a DP but it's still easily enough done that half of the married populous chooses to divorce. "Till death do us part" no longer holds the same weight as it once did. So much of the symbolism of marriage has been lost on me as a result of that. If it were a deal-breaker for my spouse then I would get married but it wouldn't change the strong commitment I already feel towards him or our children.


----------



## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Some pay dear financially as well as emotionally.. one plus I guess Wolf...
> 
> If there is any reality I have learned here on this forum ..It is *>> * to how many started out with HOPE, the best of intentions.. in regards to Love, Marriage and ever after... then they were betrayed in the deepest way.. that foundation was ripped from them.. their trust, that belief is NO MORE.. it has been severely tainted... it would take a whole lot to go there again...with anyone...
> 
> ...


:iagree: 100%

We are all walking talking products of our past. I understand that now not only because my x was unable to outrun hers but now because I have been forever changed by mine. 

I know I have baggage. Everyone does. I just hope I still don't need a cart to carry all mine


----------



## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good afternoon all
From my point of view, there is no difference between a GOOD marriage and a GOOD domestic partnership. Its is only when things go badly that all the legal stuff matters.

My wife and I got married long ago basically to appease her parents. It has had no effect on our lives other than that we pay a bit more taxes.


----------



## tennisstar (Dec 19, 2011)

I used to be a romantic, but the world taught me otherwise. We teach our young girls to dream of their wedding days, but the reality of marriage is often different. Some days, I feel the world just beats us down.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

COGypsy said:


> In retrospect, my biggest regret about actually getting married was not researching the financial implications more carefully. Marriage was one of my biggest financial mistakes ever. Turns out the tax benefits of marriage only work if you have children, a huge mortgage, and/or a spouse that makes far less than the other. *Two decent wage earners in a nearly-paid for house and a deep commitment to remaining child-free get raked over the coals when it comes to federal taxes.*


:iagree:

We each pay too much in taxes as it is. I don't think we want to give the government _more _tax money just because.


----------



## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

After taking some time to read everyone's posts thus far I still see very little to no difference between marriage a domestic partnership other than each individual's perception on both which I of course expected but the fact that marriage still brings such extreme consequence and penalty upon failure as opposed to a DP still seems illogical to me...


----------



## Faeleaf (Jul 22, 2014)

I don't expect this to be a popular opinion, but it's mine so I'll give it anyway.

Marriage makes a statement. It elevates the relationship and the other person. You are saying, "_I was looking for the One for the rest of my life, and you are that One. You are the most important person in my life. It's you and me darlin', from now on._"

And frankly, when we enter into a loving relationship - especially a long-term loving relationship, we want that statement, that elevation. I completely understand the desire to marry, to crown the union with a golden band and call it "forever." 

I am married myself, and happily so.

However, (and here is where I think I could step on some toes, so I'll try to tread carefully) there are some definite drawbacks to marriage. In many cases, I believe the marriage contract - or rather, our attitude about the marriage contract - can undermine our relationships with our partners...even start us down the path to destroying them.

There's the old joke, "Marriage changes sex. All of a sudden, you're in bed with a relative." And it's funny because it's frightfully, horribly true. Your lover is now your _relative_. He/she is FAMILY. We take family for granted. We know it's always going to be there. We expect to be put up with - even loved - unconditionally and for life. 

We let fights linger a little too long. "What's the harm? We can always make up later. I'm entitled to my feelings." We let resentment fester and turn into bitterness. "Well if *I* have to put up with his dirty socks on the ground, then *he* is going to put up with my not wearing sexy undies to bed, by gawd!" 

When things begin to go wrong, there is little imperative to fix it right away. After all, you're stuck with each other, right? You agreed before God that you didn't have any options anymore, except to stay together through thick and thin. Well, sure, you've been in a "rough patch" now that's stretched into weeks and months and even years, but you still LOVE each other, and that's what counts, right?

When I read the advice books for happy marriages, one of the things that always stands out to me is the advice to KEEP DATING. KEEP PURSUING. Keep checking in. Keep earning that place as your partner's #1 favorite person. Keep trying to re-capture each other's love and attention, keep each other's love buckets full to bursting. In other words...if you want to think of it this way...pretend you're _*not married*_. Pretend you're *dating* and still trying to win each other, impress each other, make each other laugh.

Enjoy your partner. Let him/her enjoy you. Don't confuse love with happiness. You - and your spouse - need both.

When things go wrong (and they always do), don't walk, RUN to make up. Don't imagine your partner "has" to put up with your bad moods, your bad qualities, your anger, your demands. Remind yourself of the TRUTH that they DON'T. 

A marriage contract does not remove the option to fall out of love. Fall for someone else. Get fed up with an unhappy life. Leave for a better one. A marriage contract does not guarantee us lifelong companionship, or sex, or faithfulness, or respect. It doesn't. All those things still need to be earned.

I honestly wonder if we wouldn't have more successful partnerships...even longer partnerships...if we stopped getting married at all. I don't know the answer, but I do wonder about it.


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

After divorce, this was my biggest realization - that marriage offers no real benefit and only potential barriers to ending a bad relationship. With one very important distinguishing factor: having children/family together.

I think a legal/formal union between spouses that are raising children together is a major advantage for everyone involved - the kids especially, but also both spouses if each are in it for the right reason.

The only other sensible argument for marriage is religious or personal beliefs.

As for me, I am certain I don't want to raise more children and am done with marriage. I will never be done with long term relationships though, be it with one woman or many in the future. I don't think many relationships are meant to be permantly exclusive, and for those that aren't it makes no sense to try forcing them to be - I prefer to appreciate each relationship for what it is and what I learn from it.


----------



## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

Faeleaf said:


> I don't expect this to be a popular opinion, but it's mine so I'll give it anyway.
> 
> Marriage makes a statement. It elevates the relationship and the other person. You are saying, "_I was looking for the One for the rest of my life, and you are that One. You are the most important person in my life. It's you and me darlin', from now on._"
> 
> ...



:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

murphy5 said:


> It really breaks my heart when young unmarried moms come on here and lament that their POS BF has been sleeping around after getting them pregnant.
> 
> I think it is a great protective influence on the children, and somewhat on the moms too, that they have the legal backing of a marriage.


So under assumption that MOM is the crappy parent, what "great protective influence" does a man have?

Answer: NONE


----------



## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Maybe my perceptions are fueled by the fact that I have an amazing wife.

I think of it this way. When I think of my life, I think of my family. I see us as one unit. My children are mine. They're not foster children, step children or adopted. Could I love an adopted child equally, I'd hope so, but I won't say yes without having that experience.

In my mind, a domestic partner is similar to a child, who's not yours, that you bring into your house and raise. The relationship is there, hopefully the love is there etc., but it's just not "the same".

I take pride in looking at my wife and saying "Good Morning Mrs. Dad&Hubby." The fact that she took my name, vowed to go through life with me as one. Was willing to put faith in our relationship to the level where she would risk financial security (if things went bad etc.) and all of the other "risks" that have been discussed in regards to marriage on this thread. She put that faith in me in taking me as her husband.

I guess this is just that old fashioned part of me. I see a domestic partnership as a marriage with an escape clause. What's the reason to NOT get married, if you're going to spend your life with the person? It's the "what if" that keeps it at a domestic partnership. If EVERY component of the relationship is 100%, then what's the issue with getting married?

And if you do have reservations, why bother with creating a term "domestic partnership" so you can pretend you're married but not really.

I guess I'm just too old fashioned. If I'm going to commit to the next 50 years....I'm going to marry her.


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Re: Marriage vs. Long term domestic partnership*



Dad&Hubby said:


> Maybe my perceptions are fueled by the fact that I have an amazing wife.
> 
> I think of it this way. When I think of my life, I think of my family. I see us as one unit. My children are mine. They're not foster children, step children or adopted. Could I love an adopted child equally, I'd hope so, but I won't say yes without having that experience.
> 
> ...


I respect your position DandH. I too shared similar thoughts about my marriage before D. I am not suggesting that you or any married folks are naive at all, just that our experiences shape us, and for me divorce completely reshaped my view and opinion on marriage, which also happens to feel similar to when you gain clarity of something. I still hold marriage in the utmost highest regards, but for a lot of people even ones that don't realize it yet it may not be compatible with their journey.


----------



## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Lon said:


> I respect your position DandH. I too shared similar thoughts about my marriage before D. I am not suggesting that you or any married folks are naive at all, just that our experiences shape us, and for me divorce completely reshaped my view and opinion on marriage, which also happens to feel similar to when you gain clarity of something. I still hold marriage in the utmost highest regards, but for a lot of people even ones that don't realize it yet it may not be compatible with their journey.


Great post Lon. I totally agree with you.

Coming from a man once divorced (to a manipulative cheating ex) and twice married (I couldn't imagine NOT being married to my wife)


----------



## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Dad&Hubby said:


> Maybe my perceptions are fueled by the fact that I have an amazing wife.
> 
> I think of it this way. When I think of my life, I think of my family. I see us as one unit. My children are mine. They're not foster children, step children or adopted. Could I love an adopted child equally, I'd hope so, but I won't say yes without having that experience.
> 
> ...



Had I picked a wife like yours I'm sure I would feel the same way. Well I guess I know I would have. But I didn't and now have a more cynical view of marriage. I'm glad you have an amazing wife and I hope she always remains that way for you sir. I'm truly envious.


----------



## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

Faeleaf said:


> I don't expect this to be a popular opinion, but it's mine so I'll give it anyway.
> 
> Marriage makes a statement. It elevates the relationship and the other person. You are saying, "_I was looking for the One for the rest of my life, and you are that One. You are the most important person in my life. It's you and me darlin', from now on._"
> 
> ...



My wife and I cohibitated for over 7 years before we married. I think our relationship went downhill after marriage. I believe we both got look lazy. We didn't discuss our needs, so they went unmet and resentments built. After 22 years, our lives are so fused together and there is no easy out. 



I believe the most importantly thing about marriage is that it keeps people together long enough to work out issues before throwing in the towel. Sometimes fixing a marriage is not possible.

Cohabitation doesn't give people time to fix issues. If we don't like it... We are gone...

Even in a marriage, when it's over, it's over.

At the same time cohabitation forces a couple to continue having sex, continue trying to look good, continue good behavior, continue dating, continue doing sweet things, continue being romantic, continue having sex. Both know the other can easily leave if our needs get neglected...

When the time comes when I truly give up and D, I have no idea if I would remarry. I would definitely want to be in a committed relationship. I don't know if I would even want to live together... After sleeping in the spare room, I don't mind my own bed.


----------



## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Sometimes I feel like a fish swimming upstream here at TAM.. *I don't belong...I don't fit*...


Oh STOP! (On the bolded). I think you are a gem. I don't always agree or relate to the things that you say but you definitely have your place at TAM and are one of the reasons I come back and read.

What I enjoy about you is your _authenticity_. I like people who are true and not afraid to tell it like it is (to them, we're all different and have our own takes on what "is" actually _is_). I say, keep doing and being you.

One of the reasons I enjoy threads like these is the controversy. Other people's perceptions (a word used heavily in this topic) are awesome to hear but they don't affect how I feel about myself. I love people, love learning about people and sharing about myself as well as hearing others' viewpoints. I think it's fun and educational/insightful to hear all sides even if no life decisions ever get made. 

But yeah... no more talk about not belonging. I think you have hundreds of TAMers that enjoy your posts and want them to continue!


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Ah, but marriage and romanticism are two completely independent things. Many people buy the idea that a perfect romance includes the wedding. And if it does for them then that is just how it is for them and their is certainly nothing unromantic about a beautiful wedding. As for me I realize that romance is never perfect, and in fact I think it's even more wonderful that it's not. The idea that two people can have a wonderful connection and fulfill each others needs while not having to succumb to cultural norms is at least as romantic as nuptials.


----------



## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

SA-

Yes SA, you are an anomaly here at TAM. 

I for one fit right in. I feel at home. I hear my story told over and over articulated in many different ways.



As far as your 20 ways to treat your husband, that could apply to a LTR just the same. 

I still like your posts. I like to see how the happily married 5% live


----------



## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

One more thing SA-

You have talked about not belonging here on TAM before. Somebody was critical about your graphics that you use in your post. Most of the replies comfirmed... WE LOVE WHAT YOU DO!

So I don't know why it seems you go fishing for compliments to validated your existence here. That's something I would do. You on the other hand, are consistent and haven't changed one bit, even when somebody criticized your graphical skills.

Like I said a couple years back, I feel you should write a book and include all your graphics. 

The Title of the book should be called....."Simply Amorous"

It would fly off the shelf

JMHO

Get busy on it SA...


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Miss Taken said:


> What I enjoy about you is your _authenticity_. I like people who are true and not afraid to tell it like it is (to them, we're all different and have our own takes on what "is" actually _is_). I say, keep doing and being you.


 Yes, I really want others authenticity too. .. Just BE and say it how you feel it..(tactfully is helpful)..... .this is what sets forums apart for me...they are wildly interesting, even entertaining... those DEEP discussions / controversy !...even with the trolls and drama....I like it. 

On Romance... I watched a movie some time ago on Tv...I wish I could remember the name of it, it was never popular or anything......the main character was this "over the top" NAIVE dreamy Romantic...whoever wrote this was wanting to show the ridiculousness of it...the pathetic ... I mean she was MENTAL...and needed help!.....

Every guy that went out with her...they took her to bed...and she was planning their wedding, envisioning their kids..she'd call & show up at their work.....she was being used and in her deluded mind.. this never entered in...she wouldn't let go..no matter what they said to her..or how they treated her.. she dismissed it.....it turned violent in the end.. Psycho thriller I guess. 

I found that movie deeply disturbing (being the romantic I am... seeing it twisted & abused like that)... No one could be THAT clueless... well I guess if they are mentally ill with romantic glandular delusions..



> *Trickster said:* You have talked about not belonging here on TAM before. Somebody was critical about your graphics that you use in your post.


 I specifically asked the community here this question.. because I've had a # of posters make fun of it.. I figured why not...posters ask and start all kinds of silly thread questions here, that was just one of mine...I learned some find the colors really annoying.. cant read them on their phone, so ya know.. I still learned something.. I toned it down.. 

Please don't think I am fishing for compliments...anyone who does that is emotionally insecure.. isn't that what they say ?? Isn't it possible I am just pointing out the obvious. I know there are many people here who think of those with good marriages.. ..."well if it's so damn good, why are you still here?"... it's comments like that -that play on my mind..they jump out at me / cause me to question... it doesn't matter if they are addressed to me or not.. I also sprinkle fairy dust.. don't you know... I have modified many posts thinking "OMG , that sounded too over the top".. even though that IS how I feel.

IS it so wrong to care what others think.. you know the people who bother me, the ones that don't give a da**..and will state it out right.... they come off as cyber WALLS....as if they listen to anyone.. or could be moved by another's thoughts... shoot me if I ever get that bad.. Please..

As to writing a book, even a Blog...the truth is.. I'm just too old fashioned minded...it's gonna seep out on every page ....If I want to be attacked by a growling group of man hating feminists who think I am trying to push women back ....maybe I'll just take that on.. as for now, I don't see it happening any time soon, no matter how much I enjoy writing and speaking on marriage , Love and sex..


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I agree with you about authenticity, SA. We learn the most when people are open and honest. 

That is why I have never reported anyone. I want them to show who they are. I want us to all see who we are really dealing with, at their core.

I am always surprised when people think I am not a feminist. I think I am. And I am surprised when they think I hate men. I simply do not indulge men. Or I have a limit to my indulgence, because I do not want to be enabling. I do not think it is helpful.

And if I think men, or really, people in general, are too self-pitying, I cannot respect them. And I really want to be able to respect them.

I do think transparency is key. We simply must be ourselves if we are going to be happy in life. 

So we need to be authentic, without falling into the trap of victimhood. We need to own our power, however much of it we have.


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I indulge GOOD men ...when they have shown themselves worthy , respectable and honorable.. I enjoy stroking their egos.. there is so much I appreciate about them.. There was this thread one time.. http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/27713-why-i-love-men.html I enjoyed her spirit in writing it.. she sure took some backlash as the pages went on.. 

I just can't call myself a feminist...too many has tainted the term for me...I'll just say I stand by the Golden rule for all sexes.... I believe in treating all people equally.... I have a big heart for fair treatment & justice... I see no purpose whatsoever to align oneself with any of those groups.. though I will listen to their presentations and rants...the vast majority of feminist articles rub me the wrong way.. I don't think I have ever read one that I resonated with fully to date.


----------



## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I indulge GOOD men ...when they have shown themselves worthy , respectable and honorable.. I enjoy stroking their egos.. there is so much I appreciate about them.. There was this thread one time.. http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/27713-why-i-love-men.html I enjoyed her spirit in writing it.. she sure took some backlash as the pages went on..
> 
> I just can't call myself a feminist...too many has tainted the term for me...I'll just say I stand by the Golden rule for all sexes.... I believe in treating all people equally.... I have a big heart for fair treatment & justice... I see no purpose whatsoever to align oneself with any of those groups.. though I will listen to their presentations and rants...the vast majority of feminist articles rub me the wrong way.. I don't think I have ever read one that I resonated with fully to date.


Thanks for the link to the thread. Always nice to see that some good women still appreciate good men!


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> You are very welcome Wolf !
> 
> Jld ...you might like this.. I just ran out to drop 2nd son off for Cross country.. I had this little exchange with him....I asked what comes to mind with the word Feminist.. not the brightest answer but he said "Stupid".. now hear me out.. so I said "so you don't agree with equal treatment"....you know what he says back to me.. "no, women deserve better treatment"..
> 
> ...


Excellent answer! :smthumbup:

Secure men don't need to have their egos built up. Their security comes from inside themselves. And yet, they are the men who get praised to the hilt. Go figure!

Your son is going to have a very happy life, SA. And I'm sure he will have a very lucky, grateful woman by his side.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I am sure they will be fine, SA. I think they will have a beautiful love story, just like you and your husband. 

That was a great thread, btw. Thanks for linking it!


----------



## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

Not that I don't mind a good thread jacking once and a while but could we stay on the main topic.....Thank you


Based on everyone's responses I can see this really is a matter of perception with very little differences between the two forms of pair bonding other than the negatives that are accompanied by marriage when divorcing.



I think marriage also has the potential to give a false sense of security where buy both spouses tell themselves the other one is not going anywhere so there's no need to keep the foot on the gas to sort of speak as a result needs get neglected, animosity can festers and both spouses slowly moves further away from each other viewing their marriage as more of a job title then a symbol of their relationship whereas a domestic partnerships doesn't have this there is no imaginary line that says the other person cant leave and as a by-product you have to work even harder to maintain the relationship..



If you look at most of the successful married couples one of the major aspects they all have in common is they never took their spouse for granted maintaining if not bolstering their pursuit of their spouse by continue being romantic.


----------



## tennisstar (Dec 19, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Sometimes I feel like a fish swimming upstream here at TAM.. I don't belong...I don't fit.. I never lost the romanticism... No matter what has come our way -we had each other..."the leather & lace"..."the Magnet & Steel".. "Faithfully yours".. every love song captures it... Before my husband ...life wasn't so sweet for me... then he stepped into it.. ..he's made it so easy.
> 
> As Dad & hubby said his perceptions are fueled by his wife today..... I too am guilty. I am far from an Idealist to be honest, I tend to be rather pessimistic...I think too much, question everything, have to research it..always counting the cost ..frankly dreamers annoy me!.... yet I remain this "hopeless Romantic" at
> 
> ...


You fit fine. I just think you have had a good husband and good experiences. Many of us have not had this. 

I sometimes wish I had met my current husband before I changed so much. I used to crave affection, but I learned that made me needy. I became so independent because I was a single mom and had to be. But now I know I don't need anyone, and I like having my space and doing things my way. I love my husband and he's a good man, but i know I would be fine on my own too. I used to enjoy romantic dinners etc, but now I'm just stressed with work and life duties. I know I will never be that young romantic again. Sad in some respects, but that is life. 

I don't think I would get married again if something happened to my marriage. Too much to lose, nothing to gain.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Nikita2270 (Mar 22, 2014)

> Based on everyone's responses I can see this really is a matter of perception with very little differences between the two forms of pair bonding other than the negatives that are accompanied by marriage when divorcing.


I've actually been dealing with this issue a bit lately because my longterm partner and I have been discussing marriage on and off the past little while.

Truthfully, I'm ambiguous on the subject. I guess I waffle back and forth between thinking that its just a formality that is important to him so why does it matter to me...so I'll just do it. And then I think then why bother doing it at all? We already have a fully-functioning, committed family. We have lucrative careers and are both well-off financially and have all the financial ties and legal back-up plans of a married couple. We are deeply in love, support each other, are committed and happy all the time and have very complimentary personality types.

I've come to the conclusion that since it doesn't make any difference, we can just do it sometime during the winter when we're on vacation in Jamaica or the Dominican Republic or something. Just the two of us and almost nothing to plan or bother with. Its important to him so its the least I could do.

But I must admit that when he bring up the topic, I find myself changing the subject. 

I'm just not the marriage type. My first wedding cost 40 bucks and I didn't buy a dress. In fact, the day of the wedding I called in to work to take a personal day and picked some flowers out of my own garden for the ceremony. I think weddings are a waste of money and I always laugh when I see women freaking out about planning stupid details of them. Honestly, I refuse to go to wedding ceremonies unless its one of my own siblings. I find then a colossal waste of a weekend day.

I think, like you said, its all about perception. (I am going to buy a honking big engagement ring if I do it to console myself though...lol).


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

xakulax said:


> *If you look at most of the successful married couples one of the major aspects they all have in common is they never took their spouse for granted maintaining if not bolstering their pursuit of their spouse by continue being romantic*.


I very much agree.. I don't think couples should ever underestimate how much the little things mean each & every day.....

This explains it ..


----------



## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I very much agree.. I don't think couples should ever underestimate how much the little things mean each & every day.....
> 
> This explains it ..





Vary true 



On a side note how the heck does that couple get back to land :scratchhead:


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

xakulax said:


> On a side note how the heck does that couple get back to land :scratchhead:


It's an interesting setting.... maybe an episode from the







or something !


----------



## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

SimplyAmorous said:


> It's an interesting setting.... maybe an episode from the
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah maybe so


----------



## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

xakulax said:


> Not that I don't mind a good thread jacking once and a while but could we stay on the main topic.....Thank you
> 
> 
> Based on everyone's responses I can see this really is a matter of perception with very little differences between the two forms of pair bonding other than the *negatives that are accompanied by marriage when divorcing.
> ...


Or cohabitating for longer than 7 years. Most states have common law status laws on the books. If you live with someone longer than 7 years, based upon separation, you might as well be married. (with some exceptions such as assets prior to the relationship.)


----------



## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Dad&Hubby said:


> Or cohabitating for longer than 7 years. Most states have common law status laws on the books. If you live with someone longer than 7 years, based upon separation, you might as well be married. (with some exceptions such as assets prior to the relationship.)


Common-law marriage in the United States can still be contracted in [only] nine states (Alabama, Colorado, Kansas, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Iowa, Montana, Utah and Texas) and the District of Columbia. New Hampshire recognizes common-law marriage for purposes of probate only, and Utah recognizes common-law marriages only if they have been validated by a court or administrative order.[1] Common-law marriage can no longer be contracted in 27 states, and was never permitted in 13 states. The requirements for a common-law marriage to be validly contracted differ from state to state.

Common-law marriage in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In the states that recognize common law marriage, you can usually avoid being deemed married by executing a notarized non-marital cohabitation agreement.


----------



## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

xakulax said:


> On a side note how the heck does that couple get back to land :scratchhead:


Well there are two ways. (avoiding the Bachelor setup) Grab the stinking rope and pull yourselves back to the fixed dock (unromantic) Or Swim naked (romantic).


----------



## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

Mr. Nail said:


> Well there are two ways. (avoiding the Bachelor setup) Grab the stinking rope and pull yourselves back to the fixed dock (unromantic) Or Swim naked (romantic).



:rofl::iagree:


----------

