# Wife not attracted to me. I am going crazy!



## veryconfusedhusband

I have posted another thread about my going to counseling with my wife. I am stuck on one thing and really having a hard time with it. My wife is just not into me. She loves me and wants to be around me and be married to me. But right now she is just so reluctant to declare any attraction to me at all.

Our sex life which has always been poor - the sex is good for us both but it only happens a few times a month. I am good shape and have not changed much since we married. We are both in our late 30s. 

She just cannot bring herself to declare anything about me sexy. Or compliment my looks or anything. If I tell her she is beautiful or something like that she will say something like I love your nice hugs. I always have to initiate sex and she is usually not interested. 

She is not cheating and promises not interested in someone else. I believe her completely. 

I am really going crazy over this as it sucks. I am not going to leave her or anything like that but am I crazy. She states that she just needs some time and no pressure. The counselor we are seeing has suggested this often happens in marriages and we can work through it. 

What do you all think? Could you handle this?


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## cody5

Here's the problem: It's never going to change. It never did for my me, never did for any of the hundreds of husbands on this site complaining of the same thing, and I'm afraid it never will for you.

Your wife lied to you and now you are stuck for the rest of your life without someone who wants to hold you, kiss you, be intimate with you, to love you. I'm going to get reamed for this, but you need to find that affection elsewhere. Stay married to the person that loves you like a sibling, but find someone who desires you elsewhere. Before it's too late. Before your old and bitter instead of just bitter. 

You only get ONE shot at life, and you were cheated out of a big part of it. Forever.


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## Atholk

Does your counselor even know what turns on a woman?

Check my blog out linked below, you may find some answers there.


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## veryconfusedhusband

Well wow that is a high level of attraction. I have always found my wife attractive and she clearly and often stated her attraction to me - even if sex was not that frequent even in those days. 

The part I dont get is how some woman can just turn off their sex drive. I know I am not a turn off. I am almost the same exact size as when we met 15 years ago - I still have all my hair - I am not a model but I always get looks from women....always. 

Go figure>


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## MEM2020

Your wife has a few critical issues with you that are killing her desire:
1. She believes you are totally "caught" in her web. So you are absolutely no challenge to her at all. 
2. She feels that generally your reaction to being shut down is one of anxiety and fear. Not anger. 
3. She is confident that YOU are not strong enough to deprioritize her and focus on other activities that make you happy and leave her hungry for more of your time.
4. You are WAY too serious when you talk to her about this stuff. These conversations need to be light hearted and playful while that the same time they are serious. 





veryconfusedhusband said:


> Well wow that is a high level of attraction. I have always found my wife attractive and she clearly and often stated her attraction to me - even if sex was not that frequent even in those days.
> 
> The part I dont get is how some woman can just turn off their sex drive. I know I am not a turn off. I am almost the same exact size as when we met 15 years ago - I still have all my hair - I am not a model but I always get looks from women....always.
> 
> Go figure>


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## veryconfusedhusband

I do like responses but damn some of you seem to know so much from so little. First off she has an orgasm every single time we have sex. She always enjoys it but that memory seems to fade. Like too many women she just often prefers a book and cuddle and all that. For her attraction is something that is not sexual I guess. 

I just hate the whole get her in the mood thing. We had a good big talk to today which she stated that she is still in love with me and does find me attractive but that is just not how she is to say it. It is like some type of mental telepathy I am supposed to posses. She goes on well I just dont get what you want is this just sex. Well yes sex but damn I want to feel some passion some desire. Hell in bed I do all the damn work - which I love but makes me wonder. Are all these women like my wife submissive in bed.


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## mother-of-one

Let me forewarn you.... it gets worse with kids.... so....think about it....

I totally agree with Mem11363, she has no fear of losing you, she knows you are 200% into her and if she doesn't feel like giving it to you... too bad....

What you need to do is switch things up on her.... Maybe go a few days without it, make her wonder why you don't want it. Maybe she'll actually attempt some action from you and YOU deny her for once and say you are too tired or reading a great book....maybe later... 

When you go out and women check you out, make sure she sees this... maybe she needs to feel a little bit threatened and be reminded that there's a lot of competition out there.


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## Marduk

I can only speak from my experience with my ex. Heard exactly the same thing for the last year or so of our marriage. Was *absolutely* convinced she wasn't cheating. Just the "I'm not attracted to you" junk and the "you just want me for sex" BS.

So eventually she left me... Turns out she was cheating on me. With a guy that just wanted her for sex.

Here's the deal. The women on these forums are maybe going to get mad at me for this. I love my wife. I respect my wife. I would walk through fire for her. But I'm a guy. *Sometimes I get physically turned on by her and just want her for sex.* Sometimes. And that's OK. There's nothing wrong with having lust in a committed relationship and there's nothing wrong with being human! Doesn't mean I can disrespect her or our marriage in any way... but doesn't invalidate the lust I feel for her too.

I'm not ashamed to be a man who's hot for his wife.


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## Marduk

veryconfusedhusband said:


> Hell in bed I do all the damn work - which I love but makes me wonder. Are all these women like my wife submissive in bed.


Does she do all the work in other aspects of the marriage? Ask her how she'd feel if the romance/affection work that you do stops. If you're not doing that work to begin with, maybe there's an answer there. Don't know for sure.


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## veryconfusedhusband

Update -

She is finally beginning to act as if attracted to me. She has said some nice things but they are very passive and usually in response to things I have stated. She is really playing her role as "I am just not that type of person". But is coming around to me a bit as I have told her I am not a mind reader.

We have even had some nice lovemaking sessions. She had great orgasms as normal and so did I this time. I do wish she lusted for me like I do her and that she was bit more active in the bed - no, she does not just lay their but I am the dominant one and she just follows my lead etc. That is still fun but once again it always puts me in the role of choosing the position and mood etc. for the encounter. This is a problem she does not realize because sometimes I will be too slow and soft for her taste that day or I will be too rough and verbal and aggressive for another. 

But she even states that she is just not comfortable being the aggressive one or the one to take charge at all sexually. I just wish she would be more verbal and clear of what she wants before or during sex instead of just leaving that up to me.

But hey I read about guys on here that rarely get laid or are not attracted to wife and guess I should not complain. Thinking about her right now makes me horny. Wish I could go crawl back in bed and sneak in a quickie before kids get up....but that has never happened...oh well maybe someday.


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## veryconfusedhusband

Update - 

So last night I made a move and was rejected. We had not had sex in about 5 days and I also could see she was not busy with any of her projects that she gets wrapped up in and I went through the whole check list of NOs (tired - no, headache - no, 8 day period - no) the list is pretty long.

So anyway I was not nice at all and got super grumpy and said some mean things. I just sort of lost it. I feel bad about it. 

So we talked later and I apoligized for the mean words but told her I just have to have sex more than 1-2 per month. She counters with she hates me asking for it (which I do about 5 times a month when I think it might be agreed to). Her solution is that I am never to ask for it and then she thinks maybe things will improve. I am so doubtful about that as she has initiated only a few times in the last 13 years.

Please dont advise me to read a book or try to become more attractive etc. I am in good shape and work out far more than she does. The being nice guy all the time does not work, being distant does not work, nothing seems to work. 

My guess is not asking her may help things a bit. But still not so thrilled with the idea of sex so infrequently forever. Makes me resent her and not want to do stuff for her at all.


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## Wisp

Read this thread..

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/14835-not-politically-correct-but-how-i-feel.html


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## veryconfusedhusband

I am done reading books and I am done with the whole non-sexual communication. I have been doing that for the entire time period of our marriage.

I am just going to live asexually like she does for as long as I can. Just going to do my best to be nice but find excuses to be away from her as much as possible. The hard part is going to be to keep being nice the whole time but I will try hard. I am not planning on leaving but this marriage will be no bed of roses for her either if she thinks it is ok to just have sex the 1-2 times a month that she wants to.

Please no more books or links or go hold her hand bull****. I have done that for years and years and I am starting to think some women just have no damn sex drive at all.


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## veryconfusedhusband

Well we shall see. We are in marriage counseling already and this has been brought up by me and I am going to make sure it is discussed again. My fear is that my wife plays the whole it is my body and if I don't want to then I just don't want to. How do you argue with that? I am not a member of the Taliban.

My comeback is just going to be that our marriage will never work properly if something I want/need is constantly denied. She has already crossed the bridge saying she is attracted to me and in love with me. I just think her definition of a happy marriage involves hugs and kisses and holding - which we have always done lot of and very little sex.

Again she always has an orgasm and always says she enjoyed sex after its over. Why is sex viewed as work? Hell I do it all!


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## Susan2010

How/when does your wife orgasm? During oral sex? During intercourse?
The solution to the answer could at least partly solve your problem.

Although I admit I am not exactly sure what your complaint is. You seem to be all over the place. You started this thread complaining that you didn't receive the verbal affirmations you desire. Then you later realized that you probably shouldn't complain because you discovered some men don't get sex at all so you should be grateful. Then you turned around to complain that you don't get sex often enough. I have no idea what you want and don't think you know either.


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## veryconfusedhusband

I sure get how this thread is a bit confusing. My first issue was how my wife was acting like not attracted to me - she even said it months ago. But then she later relented that yes she is in love and is attracted to me.

So we had a few weeks of that. But then I started getting frustrated that we were back into this pattern where she does not give any verbal affirmations ever and seems to want to live without any sexuality. So I have struggled with this and yes compared to some guys who seem to only have sex once a year or something I guess I am lucky. But more than that I am really in love so I am lucky there too.

But and it is a big BUT I am back to an almost no sex life with her. She got mad at me for asking but she never ever asks for it. So no the plan is that she will initiate but already the next day she stated she is not sure if that is a good idea. See she always says you have me backed into a corner I can never say no. Well maybe that is because I rarely ask for sex and you realize that it is normal to want it? So I ask about 4-5 times a month and she says yes usually twice. That is bull**** and I am tired of it.

Oh she has a great orgasm every single time from straight intercourse. She does not like me to give oral and she does not like to give oral -- that sucks too. But she is actually quite fun in bed when I get her going and she really does get into it. But it is like she thinks it is just too much work or something? I just dont get it and I have told her that I will not be a happy man with only having sex a few times a month and that I am flat out tired of being last on the list of things that seem important to her. 

I have asked her if she wants it slower or faster or this or that whatever that is not the case. She also does not like to talk about what she likes or dislikes -- this is lame too as sometimes she likes it one way and sometimes not etc. etc. And so I am constantly guessing if she wants to and then everything that takes place - she is quite submissive while having sex, which is fine and usually fun but again that just leaves me with more times in which she is displeased or tells me no not like that or something later after I make the move -- never before. Damn I miss how it was a long time ago and I miss how it used to be when I dated....I could look into a girls eyes and just know what she wants and then go for it...and then the girl would take part a bit more.

Love sucks.....but at least I am in love. And that is why I am lucky because I do love her - she just is in the state of mind that is that it is her body and if she wants sex 1-2 per month than thats it. Well what I am telling her now is that is fine I am not leaving but that is not going to lead to a happy marriage.


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## MEM2020

She already told you the truth - she is not attracted to you. The best thing to do in that situation is to learn why. Sadly the most common reaction is for the recipient of that comment to make the person who said it feel guilty. 

I imagine you gave her the "why did you marry me if you are not attracted to me" speech. At one level I don't blame you. But the truth is she WAS being honest. Go back to that conversation and get her to tell you why. 

Telling yourself that other guys only get it once a year is really lame. That might be true - so what. If you are miserable at 2/month - and clearly you are - then figure out why she is not attracted and work on that. 

My guess is that there is a LOT of behavioral stuff that turns her off. And that is stuff you can fix if you are willing to work on it. 





veryconfusedhusband said:


> I sure get how this thread is a bit confusing. My first issue was how my wife was acting like not attracted to me - she even said it months ago. But then she later relented that yes she is in love and is attracted to me.
> 
> So we had a few weeks of that. But then I started getting frustrated that we were back into this pattern where she does not give any verbal affirmations ever and seems to want to live without any sexuality. So I have struggled with this and yes compared to some guys who seem to only have sex once a year or something I guess I am lucky. But more than that I am really in love so I am lucky there too.
> 
> But and it is a big BUT I am back to an almost no sex life with her. She got mad at me for asking but she never ever asks for it. So no the plan is that she will initiate but already the next day she stated she is not sure if that is a good idea. See she always says you have me backed into a corner I can never say no. Well maybe that is because I rarely ask for sex and you realize that it is normal to want it? So I ask about 4-5 times a month and she says yes usually twice. That is bull**** and I am tired of it.
> 
> Oh she has a great orgasm every single time from straight intercourse. She does not like me to give oral and she does not like to give oral -- that sucks too. But she is actually quite fun in bed when I get her going and she really does get into it. But it is like she thinks it is just too much work or something? I just dont get it and I have told her that I will not be a happy man with only having sex a few times a month and that I am flat out tired of being last on the list of things that seem important to her.
> 
> I have asked her if she wants it slower or faster or this or that whatever that is not the case. She also does not like to talk about what she likes or dislikes -- this is lame too as sometimes she likes it one way and sometimes not etc. etc. And so I am constantly guessing if she wants to and then everything that takes place - she is quite submissive while having sex, which is fine and usually fun but again that just leaves me with more times in which she is displeased or tells me no not like that or something later after I make the move -- never before. Damn I miss how it was a long time ago and I miss how it used to be when I dated....I could look into a girls eyes and just know what she wants and then go for it...and then the girl would take part a bit more.
> 
> Love sucks.....but at least I am in love. And that is why I am lucky because I do love her - she just is in the state of mind that is that it is her body and if she wants sex 1-2 per month than thats it. Well what I am telling her now is that is fine I am not leaving but that is not going to lead to a happy marriage.


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## veryconfusedhusband

MEM - 

I know this thread might be lame but hey she already told me that she is attracted to me and yes she does have a list of turn offs that is longer than Manute Bol's middle finger. So I cannot really go down that rabbit hole of I am too tired, I am this, I am that, any longer....because frankly I just don't give a **** anymore about all that.

I love her and I am nice to hear and treat her with respect. We can have the most loving perfect day but for her sex is just not even part of the equation. I do like posting on here and I do get some good ideas and feedback. But I am so tired of all these guys who need to act like if I just read this book or understood something differently my wife would want sex. So naive....don't you remember what it was like when you were dating women? All this I am tired crap? It is bull**** most of the time and we all know it. Oh when the kids were really little and we were up all night sure but come on daily life does not make you so tired that you cannot have an orgasm.

Are there any women out here that have an idea for a man who is totally in love and understands how his wife just thinks it is ok to have sex a couple of times a month? Any good ideas? I swear the being the nice guy and all that is just not the answer I know it.


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## LFC

I don't know much about this stuff but tell her you need sex and if she is not interested start living your own life ,go out to bars etc.. not looking for sex or flings but start making your life more interesting,take up a new hobby.Let her see that you can carry on with your life..She is using sex as power..
Just a thought


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## veryconfusedhusband

If I was younger and did not have children I might do that. But no not know that is not cool at all. 

Really wish a woman could chime in. Are there some women who just really don't want sex at all? Even if they have a great orgasm every time? Even if I am patient or rough or whatever she wants?


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## LFC

How old are you?
How old are your kids?
I'm 40 and have young children,I have very similar feelings( asin I should stay home ) but when I start going out etc etc my wife show more interest in me.
Any time you spend at work is not time to yourself so don't feel guilty if you have a night out or two a week,if it helps your marriage everyone in the house will benefit.
You are the king of the house.
Read Athols blog and No simp zone


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## MEM2020

It is not lame. This is a very common thread. Take a deep breath and ask yourself a question:

If she IS attracted to you AND she does have an orgasm then WHY is she driving you crazy by ignoring your needs? 

I had a very blunt conversation about this very early on with my wife. It went like this - You need to describe an environment in which frequent sex is ok/good with you. I will then create that environment. NOTHING is off limits however if you ask for something that is totally unfair or not possible for me to do I will let you know and if you insist then we will part ways. 

So if she had demanded I do an unfair share of the total work load to have a sex life - that would have been a game ender. Or if she had demanded we spend more money than I earned - same deal. But stuff like the list below - did it with a smile:
- NEVER grope her 
- Stay away from food with garlic unless we are eating together and BOTH eat the item.
- Let her eat breakfast without conversation, interruption or physical contact. (all other snacks, meals are fine for being social just not breakfast)
- Take a shower right before bed and come to bed super clean and fresh
- Show her some non-sexual affection (that used to be difficult when my drive was off off the charts - now it is easy - but I always did it because it made her happy)
- Be positive and upbeat. Conceal fear and anxiety.
- Treat our kids well 
- Let the small stuff go - hammer hard on the big stuff
- Keep the emotional temperature in the house a bit cool
- Stay physically fit (ONCE I FUVKED THIS UP FOR A YEAR OR SO - AND IT CAUSED A REAL DROP IN DESIRE)
- Be dominant in bed and easygoing everywhere else

The real list is a LOT longer (LOL) but still it is all fine by me. And she does NOT use this list as a means to avoid sex. This is the list that when followed makes her generally happy. The occasional hiccup does not impact the bedroom at all. A steady stream of hiccups - might be a different story. 




veryconfusedhusband said:


> MEM -
> 
> I know this thread might be lame but hey she already told me that she is attracted to me and yes she does have a list of turn offs that is longer than Manute Bol's middle finger. So I cannot really go down that rabbit hole of I am too tired, I am this, I am that, any longer....because frankly I just don't give a **** anymore about all that.
> 
> I love her and I am nice to hear and treat her with respect. We can have the most loving perfect day but for her sex is just not even part of the equation. I do like posting on here and I do get some good ideas and feedback. But I am so tired of all these guys who need to act like if I just read this book or understood something differently my wife would want sex. So naive....don't you remember what it was like when you were dating women? All this I am tired crap? It is bull**** most of the time and we all know it. Oh when the kids were really little and we were up all night sure but come on daily life does not make you so tired that you cannot have an orgasm.
> 
> Are there any women out here that have an idea for a man who is totally in love and understands how his wife just thinks it is ok to have sex a couple of times a month? Any good ideas? I swear the being the nice guy and all that is just not the answer I know it.


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## MEM2020

LOL

Well said Breeze. All the stuff I do - is to avoid turning her "off". I think you are right though - she has sex with me simply because she wants a happy H who really loves her. 

But I was never "very confused" - from the start I would not have put up with this BS. I would have moved out - and then started dating - and she could have decided what her priorities were. Sex is not an optional part of marriage - especially if you have a good H. 



breeze said:


> Ok, here it is, some people may not agree with me here, if not, that's your view, but here is mine.
> 
> Your wife needs to come to terms with the fact that sex, 3-4 times a week or whatever keeps you feeling happy in your marriage, is just what has to happen. That's it, that's all, done diddly. She has to get passed all the excuses for why it's not happening, and just come to terms with it being a fundamental necessity in your marriage.
> 
> I say this because I know what she's doing. I was her until recently. It's taken me ages to just stop talking about why I didn't want to have sex with my husband (even though it was almost always great and I'd have an orgasm), and just start listening to what he was telling me. He said he needed it more often, and because it took me out of my comfort zone to make the effort to have more sex, I told him every excuse in the book for why it wasn't happening.
> 
> The thing you have to understand is, for me, and some other women, while we enjoy sex, we don't need it like you do. We have nothing driving us to have it, like our need to eat, sleep or drink, there's always something to remind us we need to do those things. Unfortunately, there is nothing in our bodies telling us we need to have sex, so it's not important, we don't even think about it.
> 
> However, once your partner is accepting reality and her need to step up, the other things can also be addressed, such as you also fulfilling her needs in the relationship, which are just as important as yours, but are just different. I say that it has to happen in that order, because right now she's not willing to give you what you need, while expecting you to give her what she needs.
> 
> From the womans point of view, she's telling you all this stuff you have to do to make her want sex, probably thinking it'll work. You could do absolutely everything possible, but you'll just never be able to create that 'I need sex' trigger in her body, I'm sorry.
> 
> There is hope though. Once a wife realises it just has to happen, and it starts happening more often, it's gets easier for her to remember your needs.
> 
> What does the woman get out of meeting her husbands needs? Well, she gets the wonderful feeling of having a happy, sexually sated husband who thinks she's an incredible wife, whatever other faults she might have. She feels sexy and desired and no longer stressed, depressed and guilty over constantly fending off her husbands advances.
> 
> I hope your wife finds this out for herself one day.
> 
> Good luck.


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## AFEH

That’s a great post Breeze. Me I never had the problem with my wife ever saying “no” in all our time together and although we’ve separated I still consider myself an exceptionally blessed man. So blessed in fact I’d be doing my wife a serious disservice if I ever posted the problems I did have.

It was me that “wanted to” far more than my wife. When I asked her why she didn’t initiate she told me she never thinks about sex, exactly like you said. But I came to recognise her ever so subtle hints (for me at least) that signalled when she’d like to, for example the way she leaned on the kitchen work surface.

Because of all that, it’s very difficult to comprehend some of the problems the guy’s on here are going through. I would say though that if I had those types of problems our marriage simply would not have lasted for as long as it did.

Bob


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## veryconfusedhusband

Thanks Breeze -

Your comments make sense and I think really match my wife. Because she does enjoy sex but also does not seem to need it much and everything else seems to press on her more. 

Plus I really like what you said about how if I do all these things for her it probably will not make a difference. This is true in my circumstance - we had been in counseling for a few months and we were working through some basic household chore type disputes - she just really wants me to be more easygoing about having a clean orderly house etc. -- (Not that I expected her to do all or even most of the work - I would just get annoyed when piles of laundry were all over the house - things like that) Well I finally just gave in completely as through counseling it made me realize how much I loved her and my anxieties and stress over things (some much bigger than laundry) were really hard on her. 

I completely stopped all behaviors that led to tension. So strange I really let it all go. I have not once even had the urge to complain about things. She has been so stunned by this change and it has been good for me too. Anyway a few months of this I really had thought that she would then start to work on some issues like sex which have been problems for me in or marriage from the start. 

Well clearly that did not happen as she continued with every excuse under the sun - supported by the "It is my body and if I don't want to well than thats that". It all makes sense logically but I kept telling her I am married to you and you are the only person I have sex with and I am so damn tired of doing it by myself. Somehow someway she is going to have to understand that 1-2 times per month is just not ok. I would love to have sex every other day or every third day but would happily settle for 2 times per week. We have not had sex two days in a row since we were married....that is sad I think.

Last night after the previous night of frustration which I did not express verbally. Oh I know she appreciated that as she just hates to talk about this. So it was nice but really kind of funny as she had made the rule that she would initiate well that did not exactly happen but all it took was me reaching out to her while she was reading in bed -- we had great sex!! As usual I waited for her to orgasm first (from straight sex - her on top for the graphically inclined) and then I came a few minutes later. She always enjoys it....always. 

So was this a break through....kinda doubt it. So in her mind that sex thing is checked off for at least 3 days (I don't she can comprehend sex on back to back nights or even a few days later as being very normal) and then we enter the awkward stage where I am not supposed to ask and I know she will not so hopefully I will handle this well. 

My plan is just to get up from bed after we turn the lights out, the 4th or 5th night of no action, and just announce I need to take another shower. That way I can relieve myself - though I just hate doing this as I get older I hate it more and more - and plus she will get the signal that this is real for me.

What you think? Breeze?


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## efs

I sound a lot like your wife, truthfully. I don't need to have sex very often but my husband likes it. I usually enjoy myself. 

If I could offer a different approach-- how does your wife feel about herself? My husband and I used to have an incredibly active sex life, but now we have a 12 month old and life just isn't the same. 

I'm busy taking care of our son and working from home while my hubs is gone all day. I know a day at the office isn't necessarily time for yourself, but it is incredibly different than having to take care of kids and the house all day long. To top it off, I'm not in the same physical shape I was at the beginning of our marriage. I haven't been able to lose the last 20 pounds of baby weight. 

Because I don't feel very confident in myself, and I have long days, by the time "sexy time" rolls around, I'm less than enthused. Sometimes I'll give in and put out, but I don't feel good about myself. 

Have you tried offering your wife some "time off"? Maybe a night out on her own, pampering her a little bit, making her feel really confident about herself?


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## efs

Also-- her sexual makeup might just be that SHE only needs it 1-2/month, much in the same way YOUR sexual makeup is that you need it much, much more. 

This may be a lame comparison, but if I only like to have pizza for dinner 1 or 2 times a month, but pizza is your favorite food and you want to have it night after night, it's going to get old and I'm going to be less inclined to be excited about it. Even though pizza is great and I love it, it still doesn't mean I want it all the time. It's just how I'm made. 

Maybe you can talk to her about finding a happy median? And don't be so hard on her if she doesn't seem excited every.single.time you try to initiate sex. It's just how she's made.


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## MEM2020

Awesome post. 

I recall once telling my W - hey you have stopped working out and it is making you tense and edgy a lot. 

What she heard was "you are getting fat - go to the gym". 

She got angry and said some very harsh things. I bit my tongue hard enough to bleed and stayed silent. She ended by saying she was "too busy" to go to the gym - she was a SAHM at the time. I said nothing. 

Two days later I casually mentioned that I needed to change MY schedule as I no longer had time to do something that was important to HER anymore. I saw her look at me - totally shocked - since this was something REALLY important to her. And then I saw the light bulb go off - I was parroting her schedule argument. She looked angry but said nothing. 

A few days later she started working out every day. And of course I found time to keep doing the activity that was important to her. 

Never once did I raise my voice. Never once did I say anything mean. I simply prioritized her needs the same way she did mine. Amazing how effective that can be. 





breeze said:


> Hope you don't mind me jumping in here efs, but I just want to put out my thoughts in regards to that, which MAY be similar to what would happen for other women. This is mainly for the women really.
> 
> I didn't ever think I needed sex. I've gone years without it after my first relationship breakup, and had some hotties try to get me in the sack, lol, not a chance. Need to love them, that's just me. Even after meeting DH and falling in love, I didn't feel I needed it much; low sex drive etc etc.
> 
> So anyway, for reasons I've dumped on these poor readers, I'm having sex more often, and I've made the adjustment in my head to keep this happening.
> 
> I feel changes in me. I realise I do need sex, the more I have it, but I need it not for the act itself or the big O, but for how it makes me feel in my life. It helps my self-esteem, it makes me positive about other things in my life. It makes my DH love me, we're no longer just friends who occasionally have sex, we're lovers, and I think every woman, whether she acknowledges it or not, wants to be someone's lover in her prime years (why do you think so many of us like those romance novels!). After 80, who knows, I hope not, lol.
> 
> I'm more affectionate with DH, without having to try. I've never been an affectionate person. I'm more affectionate with my kids, I'm acknowledging that my lack of affection in this household will greatly influence them (like it did me) as they grow up. I can laugh at DHs chagrin as he chooses to do stuff that means he doesn't get sex (such as just not being available), but welcome him if he chooses to make himself available. Previously I'd just be angry about it all. I'd reject him and 'punish' him, and I'd be an angry person, which I hate to be. I love being a lover.
> 
> We chose these relationships. We chose to be married. That means we said, I'll love you as more than a friend forever. That means, I'll be your lover forever. We can't just now turn around and say, sorry, I just don't feel like being your lover now that I'm sure of your affections, I'm tired/feel like crap etc, there'll always be excuses, but you have to remain everything I think I need in a partner.


----------



## veryconfusedhusband

Update -

So we had sex on Sunday night and it was great as usual. Kind of funny as she had told me previously that she just does not want me to initiate anymore as it is too much pressure for her. Well she did not initiate on Sunday either but she was quite responsive as all it took was me reaching over to her before lights out - it is like she cannot pass that hurdle. So that was Sunday. 
Monday - nothing - we have never had sex two nights in a row since our honeymoon.
Tuesday - nothing
Wednesday - We had a nice day and she seemed receptive so I took a chance. Rejected - again. The story is typical. She was off at a salon appt. and I was at home preparing the entire dinner for a small get together with another family. While texting her a few times I noticed what a good mood she was in so I decided to take a chance. 

I put small intimacy card game that I bought a few months ago in her underwear drawer. I left a note on it that said "I hope you play with me tongiht". So she comes home sees the game and comes out and tells me maybe. A few hours later she tells me about a headache. Our friends arrive and she seems great and we have a good time. After they leave we get the kids to bed. I don't say anything about the card game. She finally tells me I don't want to play that card game tonight. 

This is the second time I have tried to introduce this and last time she told I sprung it on her etc. So that is why I told her in advance. Well that did not work. When she told me she did not want to play that is all she said. Not we can do this instead....nothing. So we sat there and watched a stupid comedy in bed for about and hour. I got restless and annoyed - some headache huh. I actually believe she did have a minor headache but good christ it is always something. Always. 

I know I broke protocol by asking for sex a mere three nights after our last time but that is the pattern I want to break. Me just waiting for her is not working. I am really annoyed with her. I wish I could have sex with someone else - I don't plan to cheat but honestly she so rarely wants it why should it matter. My main goal is to get her to understand that it is not OK to keep doing this to me. If that means she feels guilty that is fine as I believe she thinks this is perfectly normal I do not.


----------



## veryconfusedhusband

Update -

Same day as previous update but had to add that my wife started her period today. So they last 7-8 days and I am just so pissed off. We had sex a total of two times last month. Two ****ing times. I have made so many changes for her and try to give her everything she wants. I am seriously pissed. As usual she is wrapped up in some project right now -- seems she has energy for everything but me. 

It is so weird as we have great sex when we do it. She is just set in her mind that I am pushing things and that if she does not want it than too bad as she has no control over her desire. It sucks if we did not have kids I would move out. I will never leave my children and I love my wife but this one thing is really in the way. I almost wish she was having an affair - I wish that passion was alive in her somewhere. I am serious. At least then I could figure out what he was giving her that I was not. 

No she likes it just how it is. She wants to hold my hand and all that kind of stuff. Which is great and I like it too but I am getting tired of all that stuff exclusively -- I am not in the fifth grade. 

Not sure if I will be able to bury my frustration this time. Why do women who don't want to have sex care if there husband cheat? Seriously.


----------



## veryconfusedhusband

So today I sent her an article by email in which it explains what happens when sex is withheld in a relationship. She texted me saying she too really wants to get past this problem but she just does not know how. She loves me and says she is attracted to me but for some reason sex is just not important to her. She is a really in shape beautiful mid-30s woman - I love her and I miss her and I resent her.


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## veryconfusedhusband

Hunter Brown - I wish you would consider some things. Number #1 I have tried the back off approach many times in our relationship - the just kiss for kissing and not asking for sex. Hell we went two months without sex while I was waiting for her to initiate. 

#2 Books are useless to me as she will not read them. We are in weekly counseling and making progress in every area of our relationship except this one.

#3 This is a thread so each time you read it days have passed. I have asked for sex a total of 4-5 times in the last two months. She now tells me she loves and is attracted to me but sex is some kind of hurdle I guess.

#4 After sending the article today she texted at work saying that she too wants to fix this but she is just not sure how.

#5 YOU ARE AN *******


----------



## veryconfusedhusband

No Hunt Brown you were being a jerk and you know it. 

Your latest reply reflects that you are not really a jerk just capable of being a jerk sometimes. So I will tell you know that I do not think you are an ******* as your last post reflects thought and a hint of contrition. Maybe someone else can chime in. This might be more interesting. Was Brown being a jerk?

I really need to push the issue now as we are in counseling and the counselor is thinking all is well as we have made so many other positive changes. I have to push this it has been years and years and we are in counseling which I don't want to last forever and I want a better marriage and for me that means some more sexual connections.


----------



## MEM2020

Breeze,
I realize this may be a stretch - but for sure the things that help a lot in our marriage - and with our sex life are:

- Independence: I am in love with my W and she knows that. And yet I am not "needy" or "clingy". When we connect it is great. But we are like cats - sure cats are cute and cuddly and sleek and clean - but they also don't spend too much time worrying about what you think of them. And they spend a lot of time doing their own thing. So you feel happy/lucky when they come hang out with you - because they could just as easily do something else. And that is her and that is me. 

- Playfulness: Being playful - wrestling - sometimes verbally sometimes physically - is a great type of foreplay. Confidence and humor and physical dominance are their own magic. When I pin her on the bed and ask - "would you prefer I rip your shirt off or do you want to just take it off?" She can undress - or she can buy a new shirt tomorrow, I am flexible. 

- Love richly but lightly: Let her say "ILY" first much of the time. Let her hug you first. Don't ask her "what time she will be home" She will come home when she wants to see you. The best way to catch a cat - is to let it catch you. Chase a cat and you are sure to watch it run away.




breeze said:


> Your wife recognises there is a problem, she knows you need more sex, that's great progress.
> 
> How to solve it? Hmm, just ask her to say yes to sex 3 or more times a week. It's as simple as that, all she has to do is say yes. She doesn't have to be feeling horny to say yes, she just has to say to herself, 'I want to be connected with my hubby, I want us to be happy, I want to fill his needs like he does mine.' Done.
> 
> Do what you have to to make it easier for her, like MEM suggested. I can't remember if you mentioned having kids, but if you do, here's a scenario: kids go to bed, you both sit down together with a cuppa or glass of wine or whatever, chat over your days, go to bed reasonably early, have sex. Some might say 'boring!!', I say, 'works for me' :smthumbup:
> 
> Edited to add: This might be TMI, but I rarely feel horny before my DH and I have sex, if I waited for that, we'd have it once a month, lol. I still enjoy it, we still have fun, he just makes an effort etc.


----------



## MEM2020

Hunt,
I will give my unbiased opinion here. You gave honest, heartfelt advice. There was nothing in it that was at all antagonistic. 

Unfortunately for VCH, fear is expressed as anger - and you are a convenient target. I do think that he may be past the point of no return with his wife. I think he has somehow gotten so anxious about this situation he radiates anger and anxiety at her neither of which is an aphrodisiac. I agree that your advice is sound - for some reason VCH is not able to figure his W out and she is either tired of trying to teach him, or feels that if he can't figure her out, he just doesn't get to "have her". 




Hunt Brown said:


> wow.... I guess you're angry. the problem with anger is that it blocks clear thinking. it lets the brain stem and the amygdala, the oldest most reactive parts of the brain, the parts that evolved a milenia before our frontal cortex formed (that place where you appreciate art and think logically) run the show.
> 
> let's start with #2... you should read the books for your own growth. you don't need your wife to read them. A lot of these books are written by men and women who have dedicated their lives to understanding how relationships work and how couples can best communicate. the principles are sound and the lessons, if applied consistently, work.
> 
> #3 I have a friend who has experienced your reality. his wife was forever saying no, they were often on the cusp of divorce, he was offended and hurt by her refusal to have sex. I could understand where he was coming from, I've been in sexless relationships too and it's a struggle. My friend, who is a better man than I, has worked the intimacy only route consistently for over a year... he complained about it at first, but then he figured it couldn't get worse and he committed himself to it. I'd like to tell you they are mating like bunnies, but he confesses they are closer now emotionaly and he is optomistic about their future... and his son is glad they are not divorced.
> 
> #4... if she said she too wants to fix it but isn't sure how then I think that's great. What we do know is that everything you have done to try to initiate a better relationship hasn't worked, so I wonder why, with her now showing some sign of hope, you would want to revert to your formally unsuccessful behavior.
> 
> #1... I think you may have tried the back off approach, but if you have tried it many times then clearly you are at best employing it hit or miss... you'll stay backed off until you feel hurt and indignant and then you demand and there goes all your good will. waiting for "her to initiate" is just a passive form of demanding sex. you have to let it go and give her room.
> 
> #5... that's just gratuituous and uncalled for. I haven't disparaged you in any way, I just gave my honest advice... advice you asked for. You know how to use the edit function of the forum, why don't you take #5 off and I'll edit out this part of my response too, or heck, you're the original poster, you can take down the entire thread.


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## BigBadWolf

This is one of the most discouraging threads I've seen in months on this board. 

If not for MEM11363 already laying such a foundation I would hesitate to state these facts that are so obvious, but for maybe the benefit of the many other good men that are reading and never even posting, I will type these thoughts. Whether they are taken to heart by one individual or another matters very little to me, what is important is that these simple truths are presented for the benefit of many that seem to have lost their way.

Okay Veryconfusedhusband, how is it that MEM11363 has in many well thought and typed postings has given you the *exact answer * that is your solution and yet you are still acting like a ship tossed around in a storm?

Know these simple truths:

A woman is not attracted to a weak man.

A weak man is the man that is not in control of himself or his environment, the man that follows his woman, the man that seeks the approval or permission of his woman to do even the little things, the man called too often the "nice guy." 

For such a man a woman may try to like, or be friends, but she will not respect such a man. 

And she will not be sexually attracted to such a man.

To such a man actually instead she is going to be *resenting*, even if she wants to try very hard to "love" such a man. So much is the "friend zone" and the "love you but not IN LOVE with you" feelings, it is always just this, such a man is not sexually attractive to a woman.

All the begging and whining and pleading in the world will not make any woman be attracted to such a man. For such a man a woman will continue to resent, *because such a man makes her feel insecure and unattractive*. 

And a woman feeling this way is avoiding sex, and to "talk about sex" and "negotiate for sex" will only drive her emotionally further away from such a man. And such a man will in his turn resent his woman for such a withdrawal, and seek out pornography and masturbation and a eventually an affair woman or divorce.

So it is this, time and time again for this issue, in the nutshell the "wimpy man is begging his insecure woman for sex", and they are both frustrated and confused and resenting each other to the point they build emotional walls, nagging and complaining, and then comes unhappiness and affairs and divorce. 

This is the *spiral of resentment*, and without it we would not need marriage boards such as this, for it is the root of most marriage and sexual conflict and over two hundred posts in my short time on this board.

And what happens when a man does come along that *is* confident and in control and knows what he wants and is the man that will pursue what he wants, *the dominant man*. When such a man shows interest in such a woman, even a woman that is in a sexless relationship for years, in her such a fire is lit to make her remember how it feels to be desired, and sexual, and her insecurity is melted and heated up in waves of sexual attraction for such a man, so irrestibly attracted she will follow such a man even through the gates of hell, as they say!

So for you, Veryconfusedhusband, you can continue to complain and talk and wallow in your confusion and resentment to your woman and perhaps all women until some dominant man comes along to sweep your woman off her feet and she leaves you in the dust...

...or...

...you can become such the dominant man yourself, and win the sexual attraction and respect of your woman, and find the happiness and sexual satisfaction you were seeking when you first were attracted to your woman.

The choice is yours to make.

Here are the facts:

A woman is not attracted to a weak man. A woman will resent such a man.

A woman is irrestibly attracted to the man in control of himself and his environment, the dominant man. 

Insecurity and sexual attraction are opposites in the woman. Either there is one or the other, but always there is one or the other.


A woman must respect a man to be sexually attracted to him.

A woman must be sexually attracted to a man to be emotionally connected to him.

A woman will be emotionally connected to one man at a time. 

Understand this last part to unnerstand how and why affairs happen in these situations, and how once they start how they may be turned around.



Also understand the dominant man is nothing new, for in these times such a man is often called the alpha male, the confident man, even the "bad boy", but these words are often just the bits and pieces and even the caricature of the reality of the dominant man, which is simply a good man that knows what he wants, and has the honesty and courage to pursue it.

For the woman is smart enough to see through the "nice guy" and know that despite the name, the "nice guy" is just a weak man trying to mask his weakness by bribery or trickery, by talking much and helping with housework and trying to please his woman he is just trying to bribe her for sexual favors. 

A woman will see right through this, and such the weak man as the "nice guy" will plant seeds of insecurity in a woman, because she is looking to attract a strong and successful and honest dominant man, and not to think she can only attract a scavenger and two face and trickster of a man, a "nice guy". 

Read that last part many times if necessary even if it seems offensive at first, for sexual attraction is NOT politically correct and often a bitter pill to swallow in this day and age of political correct thinking that has killed sexual attraction in so many marriages. 

A woman is feeling one of two things to her man, either resentment due to his weakness, or sexual attraction due to his dominance. 

A woman is not always understanding how and why she is feeling these ways, even embarrasment often to not be attracted to her man even if he may be the nicest and gentlest and doing the most housework of all men on the planet. 

But unnerstand, these nice and gentle and housework things are NOT sexual attraction, and these things are NOT a woman respecting a man when he is acting like a woman. Take this to the bank! 

Sexual attraction is an EMOTIONAL language, much older than the words and logic and language of these recent times. Sexual attraction is the PRIMAL language between men and woman for thousands of generations before even speaking and reading and writing were even dreamt up!!!!!

So do not expect to speak or talk or counsel your way into sexual attraction, know only this, that you need to work on BEHAVIORS that lead to sexual attraction, and that is these things already typed out by MEM11363. 

And all these things are just this one thing, *behave in the way as if you are the man that can have ANY woman in the world, and this woman is your wife.* 

To do these things is to make your woman _feel_ as the sexiest woman on the planet, to be able to attract such the dominant man.

To make a woman feel in this way, all these other issues that you speak of are water under the bridge and will take care of themselves. 

A woman that feels as if she is sexually desired is not feeling insecure, and the nagging stops, and the testing stops, and instead of negotiated sex instead days are spent flirting and burning for one another, and the words become fewer and the behaviors become more physical, which is what you are both starving for now!!!

Behave in this way in all things, how you dress, how you speak, how you do not speak, how you walk, what you do with your time and your hobbies, what you do when your woman is speaking to you in this way or that. 

Remember this, in sexual attraction, actions speak louder than words.

So to see in these things, much to be said about sexual attraction in the behavior and responsibility of the man, and the reaction of the woman to these behaviors.

This is not politically correct, but neither in this day and age will recent politically correct myths and lies will not erase millions of years of evolutionary biology. Sexual attraction is much much older than even human beings, and we deceive ourselves when we deny how much of our happiness and contentment with life is entertwined with how we feel and behave sexually, and why we choose to enter marriage and who we choose to enter marriage with.

It is for happiness to recognize that sexual attraction begins when the good man has the courage and honesty to pursue what he wants, to be the dominant man that his woman is looking for him to be.


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## veryconfusedhusband

Big Bad Wolf, MEM, and Brown Hunter -

You are all so sure of everything. But you all give off the same beta male b.s. and then try to tell me I am weak. Oh really. The be the super cool guy and don't chase her - just work on yourself has not worked. I have tried that approach many many times.

She just is not that into sex. Period. She is a great woman but like some other women and some men she seems to have a low libido. I am on the verge of a breakthrough here as now she sees that my problem is OUR problem and you all want me to read more books and buy more clothes and go to the gym more. You are all slightly misogynist and don't even realize it. Plus you give off this alpha male b.s. but then sit and try to act like all sexual problems and or lack of desire comes from some unattractive features of the male or the partner that wants more sex.

That is how people feel when denied physical contact. That something is wrong with them and only if they could fix that something than their spouse would desire them. I post this on here to get some advice and some ideas and I open up way more on here as it is anonymous - This is like a journal. You fools make it sound like I walk around the house begging my wife. You all act like you have read one book and you have the world all figured out - well I know Brown Hunter wrote on that he keeps trying to sell here.

Breeze- Good ideas about making things nice at home with helping out with kids etc. I already do lots of that and I do notice a slight uptick in sex if I make her day really nice and smooth for her by helping out more than normal. But I already contribute lots and I am always with the kids helping them with whatever. Plus I do my own laundry and the kids most weeks. So while I think this ideas is dead on it has sort of been exhausted I cannot and will not become a maid so she might be interested. We can have the most perfect and playful day and right now she is bound to say no - oh she may say yes but who knows it is like slot machine that rarely pays off.


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## cma62

VCH, i think you've had a variety of advice from a lot of well meaning people on here albeit very different. I know you'd mentioned earlier that you would never leave your wife because you love her and would never do that to your children. Take into consideration that your resentment towards your wife regarding lack of sex is bound to spill out to everyday life and children are very perceptive, do you want them to grow up with a constant tension in the house. Children learn what they live. Since you're pressuring your wife for sex all the time maybe she takes her frustration out on the kids without even realizing it. You mentioned that your wife was in her 30's, that's prime time for the start of perimenopause which can wreak havoc with womens hormones and make the libido plummett. I realize that you are frustrated as your needs are not being met and you say you're doing everything in your power to meet hers but there comes a time when you're banging your head against the wall , and achieving nothing. The most powerful sexual organ in the body is the brain so maybe there's something happening with her that she won't share or has no idea is even affecting her.


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## veryconfusedhusband

The thing is I have made huge changes in the past few months. I used to be frustrating and anxious about silly things and I let it all go as she finally convinced me it was too much for her. A big part of my being that way has to do with her always shutting me down sexually. So now I am really hoping to work on this issue with her. She knows that I made this big change and she is very pleased but has said that it is not so easy for her. See it is a chicken or egg thing - was I like that because I was sexually frustrated all the time or was she not wanting sex because I was like that. 

Well now it has been awhile (a few months) and her libido has not changed. She now sees that maybe she is playing a bigger role in this problem and is willing to address it at counseling - this is the breakthrough I have been hoping for. Almost all of the advice given is good solid stuff - but I have done all of that stuff for years. 


I don't feel unworthy and I have plenty of confidence but the problem is not just mine. It is so funny that someone writes I am pressuring for sex all the time. Asking for sex 4-5 times in a two month time span is not much. And she never yells at our kids - she is a great mom. She is really not sure what is causing her to not want sex she is being honest and open. It is just one of those things I guess. But meanwhile I need her to see it is not healthy for me and for us long term to have so little sex. 

I really wish another female (thanks Breeze) would chime in.


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## MEM2020

VCH,
Why don't the TWO of you read a book - the sex starved marriage - or mating in captivity. Or "the proper care and feeding of husbands". And get her to TALK to you about what she thinks. 

The frustrating and anxious thing is a BIG deal. Women really turn OFF to that behavior even if you are fully justified in feeling that way. 

This may have nothing to do with you - in the specific sense - but might be generally educational. 

I have read a few posts by women that were very very eye opening for me. Those posts were along the lines of:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
My H always goes down on me and gets me off, but then we have intercourse and he finishes really fast. And I don't enjoy the overall experience. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>

This really surprised me because I never knew a woman - much less a few women would "react" that way. 

On the flip side I "know" my W likes the whole "emotional connection" piece of sex a lot because a fair amount of the time we have sex she doesn't/cannot reach the finish line. And yet she is willing to have sex with me as often as I like. 

Ultimately you are going to need to understand what your wife really "wants". Many women are hardwired to do male "fitness testing". I have a few posts about the "fitness tests" I get subjected to. I do know that my W would respond really badly to me saying "even if you don't care about MY needs, my sanity, I will never leave you". She would question my confidence, self respect, boundaries etc. if I did that. It would make her push "harder". 

You seem to struggle to formulate a "logic proof" response to her contradictory statements. If it were me - we would have had the following exchange. 

Babe, I cannot function well having sex less than 2 times a week open ended. So you have a choice - you can tell me WHY you don't really enjoy sex enough to make the effort twice a week OR you can start having sex with me at that frequency. Either response is really ok. 

And I would be prepared for all the history stuff "you used to do x, y and z". Yes - and I stopped doing that a while ago - so you need to apply a statute of limitations on that just like I do on things you have done that I disliked. 

So either honestly tell me what I am doing NOW that is preventing an acceptable sex life or step up and start making an effort to make me feel loved. 

And "I don't know" is not an acceptable answer. 

Ultimately - this mindset that "you will never leave her" puts BOTH of you in a bad spot. It tells her you have no real boundaries and it causes you to feel/act like a victim. 




veryconfusedhusband said:


> The thing is I have made huge changes in the past few months. I used to be frustrating and anxious about silly things and I let it all go as she finally convinced me it was too much for her. A big part of my being that way has to do with her always shutting me down sexually. So now I am really hoping to work on this issue with her. She knows that I made this big change and she is very pleased but has said that it is not so easy for her. See it is a chicken or egg thing - was I like that because I was sexually frustrated all the time or was she not wanting sex because I was like that.
> 
> Well now it has been awhile (a few months) and her libido has not changed. She now sees that maybe she is playing a bigger role in this problem and is willing to address it at counseling - this is the breakthrough I have been hoping for. Almost all of the advice given is good solid stuff - but I have done all of that stuff for years.
> 
> 
> I don't feel unworthy and I have plenty of confidence but the problem is not just mine. It is so funny that someone writes I am pressuring for sex all the time. Asking for sex 4-5 times in a two month time span is not much. And she never yells at our kids - she is a great mom. She is really not sure what is causing her to not want sex she is being honest and open. It is just one of those things I guess. But meanwhile I need her to see it is not healthy for me and for us long term to have so little sex.
> 
> I really wish another female (thanks Breeze) would chime in.


----------



## veryconfusedhusband

MEM -

That comment you made about having the following exchange regarding sexual needs is right were we are at now. It is not that I think those books are unhelpful - I bet they would be great - but we are now going to weekly counseling and I do not want to introduce another idea now. Hopefully we will finish counseling soon and then maybe we can find a book together to read and I will go back to this thread to get ideas. 

I will never leave her and I know that to say anything less is very hard for her to hear. I truly love her and my family and I don't want to talk about breaking up. 

She is not willing to tell me what she really wants or likes in bed. BTW she does not like me to go down on her ever - I think this is part of the problem she is just not comfortable sexually. She knows that I am open to any ideas or suggestions she has in the sex dept. but she just does not want to discuss them usually. She is always satisfied with an orgasm as I can go as long as she wants and then I usually finish after her -- maybe I should just not give her an orgasm? maybe she will want it later....see that kind of thinking does not work for her though she might be disappointed but then for the next week she would pick some stupid tv shows over sex. Honestly I think her biggest turn ons are all nonsexual things....like a warm bed and a book. 

I love her. i am not desperate. There are many worse things in life than this but I know our marriage would be stronger and more fun if we could connect more sexually. 

Thanks for the comments MEM it seems you are starting to get were I am at.


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## MEM2020

Counseling is great. Maybe the counselor will recommend a book that aligns with their approach. 

I will leave you with one simplifying thought. My W is my highest priority in life. And she knows that from my actions. I would not tolerate a situation like the one you describe because it would show a lack of concern for my happiness. 

With that said MANY women come on here and say "my H does all these things that turn me off - but he gets defensive when I tell him stuff so I don't want to say this stuff to him and hurt his feelings....."

As for the whole - "I would never leave you" - you are missing my point. There is a whole giant universe of points on the spectrum between "I would never leave you" and "I am filing for divorce". Trust me - your W would gradually take YOU through the spectrum if you were not meeting HER core needs. 

It would start with "I am not happy" and traverse "I love you but am not in love with you". Eventually it would get to "I am not sure this marriage is good for us". And then it would go to "we need to separate for a while". Finally "I want a D". 

I am not suggesting you drop a nuke. I am telling you that saying "I have totally disarmed the population" is a BAD message. STOP saying that. 






veryconfusedhusband said:


> MEM -
> 
> That comment you made about having the following exchange regarding sexual needs is right were we are at now. It is not that I think those books are unhelpful - I bet they would be great - but we are now going to weekly counseling and I do not want to introduce another idea now. Hopefully we will finish counseling soon and then maybe we can find a book together to read and I will go back to this thread to get ideas.
> 
> I will never leave her and I know that to say anything less is very hard for her to hear. I truly love her and my family and I don't want to talk about breaking up.
> 
> She is not willing to tell me what she really wants or likes in bed. BTW she does not like me to go down on her ever - I think this is part of the problem she is just not comfortable sexually. She knows that I am open to any ideas or suggestions she has in the sex dept. but she just does not want to discuss them usually. She is always satisfied with an orgasm as I can go as long as she wants and then I usually finish after her -- maybe I should just not give her an orgasm? maybe she will want it later....see that kind of thinking does not work for her though she might be disappointed but then for the next week she would pick some stupid tv shows over sex. Honestly I think her biggest turn ons are all nonsexual things....like a warm bed and a book.
> 
> I love her. i am not desperate. There are many worse things in life than this but I know our marriage would be stronger and more fun if we could connect more sexually.
> 
> Thanks for the comments MEM it seems you are starting to get were I am at.


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## COGypsy

I'm probably a bit late to the party, but I'm a woman, albeit one who lives on the other side of the fence. In my marriage, I'm the one who has the higher libido and my husband is the one who has heard that there are some crazy kids that do that "sex" thing...

I lurk regularly on a message board that deals specifically with the issue of mismatched libidos and the consensus seems to be that it isn't a matter of how good or bad the sex is, how clean the house may or may not be, whether your teeth are flossed or who made dinner what night....if sex just isn't as great a drive for her, she will likely always feel pressured to have it and it will likely not ever be in her nature to want it or think about it more than she does. And until she decides to come to the table and compromise on frequency, it's highly likely that you'll stay stuck in this loop, unfortunately.

In my house, I compare it to steak. I'm not a big steak eater. Nothing against it, don't hate it, just not one of my go-to foods, you know? However, it's a staple of my husband's diet and one of those things he could eat every day. Since I do most of the cooking, I try my best to make sure that I make something in the "slab o' meat" category at least once a week because I know he likes it. Sometimes I forget and he'll say something, but by and large, I keep his favorite in the rotation. I have to make an effort to do it, it's not a meal I get particularly excited about, but I usually end up satisfied in the end and it keeps him happy. On the other hand, sex is something I could have every day, once a week, or even in some sort of rotation....it just doesn't work out that way.

I know at this point that for whatever reason whether I dress up, dress down, initiate or don't...whatever....it makes no difference. My husband just doesn't want sex. And after a gazillion fights, books, tears etc. I've also realized that it actually has nothing to do with me, it's just how he's hardwired. You could drop him in the Playboy Mansion and it would be the same thing...(okay, probably  ) 

It sounds like you keep going around and around about what YOU can do, what about YOU is making this happen, or at the very least, what YOU can DO to make it stop. Having been in this boat with someone who didn't even want to make the attempt to change/compromise for a while now....I just wanted to throw out there what sounds like a very strong possibility that _it isn't you at all.. Not too comforting probably, but it took a lot of pressure off me when I realized that..._


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## AFEH

Yes. It’s called Acceptance. It’s a state we reach when we accept our partner for who they are. We no longer try and change ourselves in the hope that they will change or try and change their behaviour by other means. We just “Accept Who They Are”.

Acceptance is a massive turning point in the relationship and may, like me, only come after years of trying this and that and coming to the realisation that “this is it”. This is who they really are.

It’s like we wake up and have that aha moment. Like “If I stay, this is the way it will always be in my marriage”. We get a clear view of the future from past behaviour, behaviour we somehow now “know” is never going to change. We then start “reckoning” adding it all up. Can I live with that future? Is the main question we ask ourselves. My answer was a resounding No and I’ve never regretted my decision to split.

My wife’s behaviour after we separated is confirming all I felt. She is I know having one or two aha moments about her behaviour. They say it’s not till we lose something that we really begin to appreciate what we had and take a good look at our role in the loss. She’s going through that stage, I know. She’s not all that far down the line as yet and has a long way to go. But she is feeling the pain big time and just maybe that’ll help her change and grow as a woman.

Bob


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## viking_preacher

veryconfusedhusband said:


> I have posted another thread about my going to counseling with my wife. I am stuck on one thing and really having a hard time with it. My wife is just not into me. She loves me and wants to be around me and be married to me. But right now she is just so reluctant to declare any attraction to me at all.
> 
> Our sex life which has always been poor - the sex is good for us both but it only happens a few times a month. I am good shape and have not changed much since we married. We are both in our late 30s.
> 
> She just cannot bring herself to declare anything about me sexy. Or compliment my looks or anything. If I tell her she is beautiful or something like that she will say something like I love your nice hugs. I always have to initiate sex and she is usually not interested.
> 
> She is not cheating and promises not interested in someone else. I believe her completely.
> 
> I am really going crazy over this as it sucks. I am not going to leave her or anything like that but am I crazy. She states that she just needs some time and no pressure. The counselor we are seeing has suggested this often happens in marriages and we can work through it.
> 
> What do you all think? Could you handle this?


I'm a gypsy wiseman, I've got all of the answers to your confusion. Your missus doesn't fancy you mate, get over it.

I'm from a gypsy family, we have very family orientated traditions. I lost contact with my family when I was young. If it was my choice, I would have married a gypsy woman, because I fancy them and I respect them.

I was homeless for a long time, and the UK is a very discriminating place, so I just assumed that I'f I ever wanted kids, I'd have to buy them on the black market :-D. Over a year ago, I met a woman with a tradic past. We immidiately took to each other like powerful magnets. She's got a very timid personality, and I'm a loud mouth nut case that always makes her laugth. We got on really well and we still do.

Less than a year later, we tied the knot. We have a perfect marrage except when it comes to being intimate. She gives me every excuse under the sun, but I've never bought it. I always knew she never fancied me, and it's not cos I'm a sack of lard that would put anybody off. I've turned down more filthy offers than there are days in the year, but I've never been interested, because decent gypsies only ever want one woman.

Gypsies can be very hostile towards "regular people", because of the regular discrimination they recieve, but behind closed doors, they are mostly very respectful to each other, especially their wives. Gypsy marrages are typically very affectionate and energetic relationships that last til the end (don't bother gossiping ancient gypsy secrets), but my missus isn't a gypsy, she's from the MTV world. She loves me to death, but she's always uncomfortable if we get too close, because she isn't attracted to me.

She's a nice person, but the type of fellas she's attracted to are the typical MTV [email protected] that want to use and abuse her. Niether of us have any intention of walking away. I still want a family, and she is still insecure because of her past, and we still get on perfect as married friends. Niether of us would ever cheat.

I've never been addicted to sex like civilised people are, so I don't miss anything in bed. Being intimate is still important in a marrage, but its a lot more important that you enjoy each others company and are happy. It's frustrating when you care about someone and you wan't to share your feelings with them, but if they can't respect you enough to share back, then just cut the whole intimacy part of your relationship out and GO AND HAVE A GOOD WANK :-D.

If you're missus starts booing cos you don't show any interest in her and you spend most of the day in the bathroom all of a sudden, just tell her that you love her, but sometimes you like to imagine about what it would be like to be married to someone who didn't find you so disgusting and repulsive :-D.


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## Marc878

Women need emotional connections much like men need sex.

Non sexual kissing, hugging, holding hands, etc. if you can do these things on a steady basis it should help. Not just Tuesday when I want sex.

Are you?


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## VeryHurt

cody5 said:


> Here's the problem: It's never going to change. It never did for my me, never did for any of the hundreds of husbands on this site complaining of the same thing, and I'm afraid it never will for you.
> 
> Your wife lied to you and now you are stuck for the rest of your life without someone who wants to hold you, kiss you, be intimate with you, to love you. I'm going to get reamed for this, but you need to find that affection elsewhere. Stay married to the person that loves you like a sibling, but find someone who desires you elsewhere. Before it's too late. Before your old and bitter instead of just bitter.
> 
> You only get ONE shot at life, and you were cheated out of a big part of it. Forever.


I am a female, have been cheated with 3 OM's, going through a divorce after 33 years of marriage and I am NOT GOING TO REAM YOU. OP, divorce her and then fine someone who loves you.
I wanted someone to hold me and kiss me. I wanted attention and affection. Rejection is one of the worse feelings in the world.


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## Evinrude58

OP, 
I find it strange that she doesn't like oral, and yet has all these great orgasms--- and yet doesn't want sex.

It makes me wonder if she is really having an orgasm. If she is, she would want more. 

I can tell you that all women aren't like this. Most do want sex and some want it too much. Women are very similar to men as far as sex drive in my opinion.

Don't be naive and think there's no way she couldn't be getting sexual fulfillment elsewhere. Also, you don't tell your husband you're not attracted to him unless you mean it. Can't you see that? She saw how much it hurt you, knows how much sex means to you, and crawfished.

You either accept twice a month, or you divorce. It's pretty simple/- unless she is cheating. In that case, different problems.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manfromlamancha

What the …..? OK, I am officially in the twilight zone!


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## Roselyn

veryconfusedhusband said:


> MEM -
> 
> I will never leave her and I know that to say anything less is very hard for her to hear. I truly love her and my family and I don't want to talk about breaking up.
> 
> I love her. i am not desperate. There are many worse things in life than this but I know our marriage would be stronger and more fun if we could connect more sexually.


Woman here, 58 years old and my husband at 60, and ongoing 36 years married (first marriage for both of us). Sexual desire and activity will slow down further for you as you get older when ailments come along. Medications will often cause the low libido.

You have decided to stay in your marriage. You need to see a psychologist for coping skills. Your "sexual connection" will not change. You must be realistic.


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## Plan 9 from OS

I know this is a zombie thread, but I read the entire thing anyways. I have an alternative view to situations like these. It seems like conventional wisdom is to game the spouse (almost always a wife) by using a modified version of PUA tactics that are more marriage friendly. But at the end of the day, it still comes down to the idea that with certain spouses there is a shelf life to the sexual good will built up by playing the game right, i.e. being in good to great shape, dressing fashionably, developing a more suave, cool demeanor, etc... Inevitably, it appears that there is a "recertification" period where the 'pursued' spouse has to test her mate via a series of sh!t tests. I find this whole dynamic entirely sad - and pathetic. 

Why do some people feel compelled to hold their spouses to such tight margins of error? So if you are a wee bit too beta this night, you are put back into the que for future sh!t testing to recertify your alpha license? Sorry guys, but it's simply nauseating to live a marital dynamic like this. Granted, there are tenets to MMSLP that I wholly agree with - like trying to live up to your max potential in work, appearance and personality. But heaven forbid that you backslide some or...you have your work cut out for you again. 

Communicate clearly, allocate chores/roles within the household fairly (and justly) and commit to no games playing. A lot of the rest of the marriage will sort itself out otherwise. Bottom line is to operate within the marriage in good faith with your spouse.


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