# The unknown



## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

From whoever has dealt with a spouse that cheated in some way... and you knew it, but can not find any proof and they won't confess.
How do you settle this within yourself and move on? Whether together or alone?

How do you find that "peace" within yourself and not let it gnaw at you constantly?


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## underwater2010 (Jun 27, 2012)

I know most of what happened via email and confession. And yet what I was unsure of knawed at me daily. That was until I just said it most likely happened and I cannot change it. Don't misundestand me, I will be pissed if it comes out later. But as long as it was what I have accepted with this one MOW, then he is safe. Do not drive yourself crazy.


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## DangerousCurves (Jul 18, 2012)

I've been asking myself that same question for years...


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

underwater2010 said:


> I know most of what happened via email and confession. And yet what I was unsure of knawed at me daily. That was until I just said it most likely happened and I cannot change it. Don't misundestand me, I will be pissed if it comes out later. But as long as it was what I have accepted with this one MOW, then he is safe. Do not drive yourself crazy.


All I have is phone logs... I never saw the FB chats or don't know if they ever saw each other in person... All I got was the "just friends"... but he has a history with both women.. So.... 

I know I have to not let it make me crazy,,,,, either way it's been a deal breaker for me,,, along with other issues.

Maybe with my counseling and "time",,, I will get better. Thanks


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## WasDecimated (Mar 23, 2011)

Numb in Ohio said:


> From whoever has dealt with a spouse that cheated in some way... and you knew it, but can not find any proof and they won't confess.
> How do you settle this within yourself and move on? Whether together or alone?
> 
> How do you find that "peace" within yourself and not let it gnaw at you constantly?


I knew in my gut something was going on. She would admit nothing. I dug and dug for months until small pieces of the puzzle started to turn up. I used a GPS tracker that confirmed the affair in my mind. I got into her smart phone and found some messages that only proved contact. I finally got the big pieces of the puzzle from the OM's wife. She knew a lot more then I did and sent me proof in the form of thousands of messages between STBXW and OM that she got off of his computer. This was painful stuff to read.

I could not settle within myself because of how much it gnawed at me...constantly. I knew that if I kept digging I would find something...and I did eventually. WS's will always leave some form of proof eventually. After learning the magnitude of her betrayal...1 1/2 years, I still tried to save our marriage...she did not. 

Divorce is something I could not take lightly because of my Christian beliefs. After finding proof if adultery the decision to D was now mine to make. Biblically I was justified. With no real remorse from her, and after I made a real effort to R, I filed for divorce. 

I suppose I could have stayed with her and lived in a marriage in which I was neglected, disrespected, taken for granted, and lied to, but I would rather be alone.


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

Decimated said:


> I knew in my gut something was going on. She would admit nothing. I dug and dug for months until small pieces of the puzzle started to turn up. I used a GPS tracker that confirmed the affair in my mind. I got into her smart phone and found some messages that only proved contact. I finally got the big pieces of the puzzle from the OM's wife. She knew a lot more then I did and sent me proof in the form of thousands of messages between STBXW and OM that she got off of his computer. This was painful stuff to read.
> 
> I could not settle within myself because of how much it gnawed at me...constantly. I knew that if I kept digging I would find something...and I did eventually. WS's will always leave some form of proof eventually. After learning the magnitude of her betrayal...1 1/2 years, I still tried to save our marriage...she did not.
> 
> ...


I feel it in my gut also... I contacted both OWH's and they both shut me out... didn't want to talk to me about it... So got no info from them. 
My H only has a flip phone from Verizon with no SIM card... so can't retrieve anything. I got passwords to his computer and accounts, but all deleted. I had put a keylogger on his computer, but when I confronted him in counseling about watching porn, he wiped his computer back to "out of box" programming.... so he wiped out the keylogger.... 

So,, I'm at a loss. I knew better, but contacted both OW..and of course,,, "just friends".
I just found an old CD in our spare car that he used to drive with a lot of love songs on it (home made)... but again, he says he doesn't know where it came from.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Having not been in that situation, I do not know.

However, meditation techniques, self-improvement CDs might help, as might counselling.


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> Having not been in that situation, I do not know.
> 
> However, meditation techniques, self-improvement CDs might help, as might counselling.


I have counseling tomorrow, so I am going to bring this up. I was doing pretty good until I found the CD yesterday... then I went back to square 1. 

Since I asked H about the CD yesterday, he has been trying to contact me... seeing if I want to go out, etc. 
Trying to "sweet talk" me... I just don't respond back to him.


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## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

DangerousCurves said:


> I've been asking myself that same question for years...


Did you cheat on yourself?


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

I'm in the same place. I ask my counselor this question constantly and really don't get the answers I'm looking for. I tell my WS all the time - I know, but I don't know. It totally screws with your head. He just won't come clean.


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## 4Everalone (Sep 30, 2012)

They never will come clean until you have proof. For me it was very hard but I just carried on for a bit like nothing was wrong, he'll let his guard down eventually and you'll get what you need. I found you'll never be at peace until you know one way or the other. I was on a mission and would not fail until it was done.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

My counselor told me, "You have to just accept it and move on. You will never know the truth." 

Rug sweeping, is it an art form? I can't do it. Maybe I am doing it.

Trouble is, it will come back to haunt me. I am sure she knows this.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

4Everalone said:


> They never will come clean until you have proof. For me it was very hard but I just carried on for a bit like nothing was wrong, he'll let his guard down eventually and you'll get what you need. I found you'll never be at peace until you know one way or the other. I was on a mission and would not fail until it was done.


Well, I'm a year out from original discovery and he has since failed a poly, still won't come clean. I don't think he is gonna break down. 

I do agree with you on the peace thing. I don't think I'll ever have real peace until I know exactly what he did.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Don’t have an answer for you. It will poison the marriage and your behavior toward him. You will continue to and will always know in your heart that he is unloyal and a liar. Years of anxiety await you. He hasn’t addressed the problem, nor probably explored it. And if he is like my wayward wife, this newer, frustrated, angry, jealous, paranoid person that is you will just have him see the marriage as even less valuable and meaning even less further justifying why he needs someone else who “gets him”. I’m sorry.... that was my experience. I now have to deal with five more years of adultery and unanswered questions after rugsweeping the first major redflag.


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## fishfast41 (Dec 12, 2010)

My DDay is only 5 weeks in the past. I have phone records which show enormous amounts of calls and texting to the OM, but I need a court order to get content..not likely. The wife will not admit to anything beyond "helping a friend". No matter what I do from now,I don't believe I will get anything else out of her. The fact that I have enuff proof to satisfy my mind as to what was going on is what keeps me sane.


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

fishfast41 said:


> My DDay is only 5 weeks in the past. I have phone records which show enormous amounts of calls and texting to the OM, but I need a court order to get content..not likely. The wife will not admit to anything beyond "helping a friend". No matter what I do from now,I don't believe I will get anything else out of her. The fact that I have enuff proof to satisfy my mind as to what was going on is what keeps me sane.


You live in Florida? I wonder if anyone has met the OP's spouse on here,, posting here on TAM? That would be wild wouldn't it.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Numb in Ohio said:


> From whoever has dealt with a spouse that cheated in some way... and you knew it, but can not find any proof and they won't confess.
> 
> How do you settle this within yourself and move on? Whether together or alone?
> 
> How do you find that "peace" within yourself and not let it gnaw at you constantly?


Wish I knew!

Wish I knew how to get her to just F'n be honest with me. From day 1 it would have been possible to solve the issues.

Wish I knew how to find the proof myself.

Wish I knew how to find peace with the limbo. I know the truth but not with facts. Any reasonable person who saw my list of flags would convict in a court of law, but there is that tiniest of chances that things might be innocent. :slap: It is a circular roller coaster ride with no end.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

I got enough proof with a keylogger the first time they contacted ea h other after I put it on. I know there's months of stuff in the form of deleted fb messages, it was the primary communication mode. I heard on a radio program at the beginning of May that fb never actually gets rid of anything, they store it all. Within a week I figured out the two ways to get at it. One is a court order, which might be possible if you file for divorce. The other is to file a request under a privacy law, if your country has one. Where I live, 2 levels of government have such a law. I wrote a request, put the pressure on my wife. It took a week, but she signed it. I would have walked if she didn't sign it.

Strangely, I have never sent the letter to fb. The fact that she signed it was good enough for me.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

I don't think you can ever get peace of mind fully if they don't come clean. The only thing you can do is leave or accept and move on. 

I tried the accepting and moving on bit. It worked for me for a little while, but what triggered it again was a conversation/argument where I was asking something, related to the cheating but in the context of my acceptance and totally unrelated to his answer! Huge red flag for me. He did this so many times before DD where I would be annoyed about something, the way he had treated me, and he turned it totally around into an issue of jealousy. That I didn't trust him. I gave him a stick and he answered with a tree! Displays of his guilt came out in this way frequently. 

And after DD when I got fed up with the circular arguments I decided I wanted to be with him, I was sure it wasn't continuing, so I accepted and moved on. So this one day, I gave him a stick, he gave me a wooden chest of drawers! I could take no longer. He confirmed to me by doing this the truth in some of the things I had thought, and in his weird and off the subject answer he reminded me of a huge issue that I had totally forgotten and moved on from. That was all I needed for irrefutable proof. 

So I guess, it can be done, but I don't think it will ever go away. Even if no triggers come, I think it will always be there between you in one form or another, and it will always be the cause of an underlying distance and uncertainty.

A further thing, if you really need to have the truth, the only way you can possibly get it is to separate. For good. Then you will find out if him keeping you is important enough to him or not by spilling the beans. I found out a further TT this way. Over a year later. A year of heartache, circular arguments, so much pain due to me knowing, him knowing, and him avoiding in all ways possible. So cruel. 

And it was exactly that issue that he brought up and reminded me of, which was about 6 months before the TT I got and the end. But I had had enough by the time he decided to finally come out with it. I don't even care what else he hasn't told me. In fact, I don't even want to know anymore. He has done enough to hurt me and I don't want to feel that pain any longer. I have tried plenty, and now tried enough, to work through the pain. And he has not eased any of it for me. He wants to get back with me, but still refuses the hard work. I am obviously not worth it to him. And I certainly won't be doing any more hard work. Therefore it is over.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

There are always triggers. And there are suspicious things which sure look like a smoking gun but which are denied and which have a tiny possibility of being innocent. Just when you think things are going well, a bomb falls on your head from the clear blue sky.

One question to consider is what are you seeking to learn? Not the simple fact you are looking for, such as a person's name or whether there was a PA, but deep down what is it you need? I need to know I can trust my wife into the future. All of the trust I blindly gave her has been evaporated. All 30+ years of it. So yes there is a lot of searching for what was real vs what was deception in the past. But deeper down I need some indication that it is safe to now trust her. For me that is what I am really searching for.

Time can help with that one, until that bomb falls on me. Like the razor in the car. I thought we had a new start going. The razor was likely there for a few months, and maybe we really did have a new start going. But the discovery was a reset to the beginning of the process for me. And I find myself unable to move forward given the unknown and unresolved issues from the past and from her denial of the razor.


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

Dday was Sept. 22nd. last year. He has been out of the house for almost 8 months now. He still says that they were just friends and there was no inappropriate talk, sexual, feelings ,, whatever. 

Still says he only hid it so I would not find out his cheating past on his previous W. 

My gut tells me it can't be that simple... there has to be more to it, considering one of the "friends" was his affair partner on his previous W.
He only talked on his phone with these women,, maybe just a couple on FB. 
So, I cannot get ANY proof otherwise... 

He was also emotionally abusive to me for around 6 or so years.. that is something I don't know if I can ever risk putting myself back into. 

So, the unknown of the "friends", and the unknown of why I deserved to be abused will always haunt me. Once I get myself strong enough emotionally to fully stand on my own, should I ever take his promises to never mistreat me again?


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