# "Love me but not in love with me" Books and understanding



## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

I was recalling this resounding statement, announced by my partner about a month ago. I decided to google that today and she must have picked that up somewhere because that statement is most popular these days....:scratchhead:

I noticed there are a few books out there and some stuff on the book by Marshall I found kind of interesting. The sentiments of sort of acting more like each other and NOT fighting really seemed interesting. I know a lot of my reading indicates stuff about fights but we just do not have them. Not sure if we both ignore and walk away, afraid to hurt the other, afraid of the conflict, or what. 

I have not yet got the book but curious if my above sentences are enough to indicate a hole in the floor? I guess right now, I am finding myself working on how to bring my seemingly willing partner back from the "got no love" park? We have had sex 3x this week but my partner has made it clear that this is "horny sex, not love". I went in for a kiss today and really had to work to get that. 

So, everything I am reading with still living here, planning for the holidays, sex, etc, while not able to kiss, hug, hold, etc, is telling me she wants to work on things, but needs help. We need help. 

Are there any really great articles or other books and such we should be reading to examine our issues more closely? I think we always thought our lack of fighting was a great thing, but now I am reading that is not real great for passion in a relationship.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

You need to do some more reading here too

Sometimes the ILYBNILWY speech is associated with affairs

I'm not saying your wife is having an affair but they may be thinking about it

Then again they just may have fallen out of love with you

Do some reading in the infidelity section too
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

Yes, she has already told me a month ago she was wanting to date someone. I have not yet been able to ask her much about but I do know her pretty well and I would think she would have moved out by now if there was someone else. I cannot be certain though and will admit that pain of not knowing is still hiding in me right now.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

Bob,

It is just not as simple as that. Cheaters are cowards at heart and very few have the intestinal fortitude to come clean and be honest with those they are offending.

I would also suggest you look up a handful of the ILYBNILWY threads and I have no doubt you will begin to recognize the same patterns. 

If my wife would not kiss me willingly we would be having a very serious discussion. I would suggest you start to look for the evidence of someone else in the picture. What wife just throws out that she wants to date someone else and thinks everything will just continue to be peachy. Wake up my friend.


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## Helplease (Nov 8, 2012)

Toffer said:


> You need to do some more reading here too
> 
> Sometimes the ILYBNILWY speech is associated with affairs
> 
> ...


I think the ilybnilwy line is lame. I have fallen out of love with my wife several times in our relationship. I always knew in my heart of hearts that I loved her. Sometimes it was hard to feel it, for whatever reason. Usually it was because we werent getting along for whatever reason. Never because of a third party. It always came back.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

bobsmith said:


> Yes, she has already told me a month ago she was wanting to date someone. I have not yet been able to ask her much about but I do know her pretty well and I would think she would have moved out by now if there was someone else. I cannot be certain though and will admit that pain of not knowing is still hiding in me right now.


Bob,

I am so sorry for you. Chances are (in light of this) I'd be willing to bet she's either already dating or working on an emotional affair (at least) with this person. 

It's time to go into spy mode now if you want the truth about what she's up to. Get a key logger on the PC, buy a couple of VARs and put one under the front seat of her car with heavy duty velcro and get all the cell phone bills you can and look for a lot of texts/calls to one or two numbers at all hours of the day, especially when you're not together

Last but not least, do plenty of reading in the Coping With Infidelity section here at TAM


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

Toffer said:


> Bob,
> 
> I am so sorry for you. Chances are (in light of this) I'd be willing to bet she's either already dating or working on an emotional affair (at least) with this person.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

I've probably been hanging around the Coping With Infidelity forum too long but I have learnt that in almost all cases this statement means that your spouse is having an affair.
At the very least it means that your partner has checked out the marriage and will be available to others.

I disagree that your wife has looked up the ILYBNILWY speech. It is a speech straight out of the 'cheaters' script, they all say it or something very similar.

The good news for you is that there is a betrayed spouse script which you can follow. The big difference is that the cheaters script is something they do subconciously while the betrayed spouse script is something you do conciously and it allows you to stay one step ahead.
I would suggest that you ask for this thread to be moved to the Coping With Infidelity forum by private messaging one of the mods Amplexor or Halien spring to mind.

It may not be an affair but the signs are there and I would be surprised if it isn't. The group who post on the Infidelity forum will have some cracking advice for you.

Toffer has already given good advice follow it.


Quick couple of questions, what do you want to happen?

Are you done and just want the truth plus best possible divorce?

Do you (at this moment, you might not later when you hear the truth) want her back?


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

I want to date someone in a marriage?

AFFAIR FOG and stupid.


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## Pollon (Nov 13, 2012)

Bob,

You refer to this lady as your "partner." How long have you been partners? Are you married?


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

Together 11yrs with a few 1-2mo separations in there. 2 kids, 9 and 2. Originally marriage was no biggy, then became an issue 3 yrs ago so I proposed. Were engaged until 2mo ago when all this happened. 

I have walked into the question carefully several times now and she is not really answering it, however, because she is not acting super strange when I hint at it, I kind of think she wants me to think that and let the jealously get the better of me.


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## Pollon (Nov 13, 2012)

Just an educated guess, but my suspicion is that this is an outgrowth of your unwillingness to voluntarily commit. She got the message that you don't cherish her enough and she is letting you know. Most women want to feel protected and safe, and you have not done that for her. There may not be an affair, but she is tired of feeling vulnerable and insecure with you.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Pollon,

Good point. This is possible 

bobsmith, you need to then ask yourself if you want to be married to a woman who plays these kind of games instead of coming up to you and asking about the marriage issue.


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

Yes Toffer, you are right and I agree with above. It is just when she said these very words, I did not realize I could google that and find books on it. However, my mentality is this is not a cut and dried affair and maybe my previous post helped understand that. 

I think we are BOTH realizing that we have a VERY serious problem with communication. As I have told her, "you need serious help if you would rather quit on our engagement than sit down and talk to me first, in which this would have all been resolved." 

I am actually in that same boat because I have been avoiding marriage for a few reasons. One is that the statistics of marriage are VERY scary for me and I want to me married for life. Two is that I have been waiting for that woman I wanted to marry come back out. She does not touch me, does not really do **** for me other than stuff around the house that I also help with. I want someone that acts like they want to be with me, play with me, etc. She shows none of that and tells me "I can give you so much more in marriage". Sort of a roll of dice if you ask me. 

I have since told her how much I love and adore her but if this is as good as it gets, I don't want it either. Neither of us are happy, and both for the same reasons I suppose.


POLLON - Let me ask you, what do you see as the way to repair this? Can it be repaired? We have had several LONG talks and what seems to be happening is I am talking about my feelings towards her, and she keeps about tangible items that is not like her. She said a switch was flipped when she was talking about having an ice maker in the fridge (we are looking to move to a bigger house) and I kind of blew it off. She knows I am an engineer that can build about so the ice maker kit is just a quick Saturday project. She never said it was VERY important to her. 

To date, I have been helping with the kids more, making dinner at least once a week, helping in the kitchen, telling her I love her daily and complimenting her, etc. All things that should be helping. I think they are but at snail pace. I need more ammo. She is worth fighting and for and NOT a shallow person. A lot of what is coming out of her mouth is not really her. 

here is what she is saying

1. I am not acting like a real man
2. I don't make her feel secure in our future
3. I don't pay anything directly for our kids. (but I do pay for the house, utilities, Inet, car repairs, etc) I have since taken more off her hands. 
I am not making a lot right now and I am not sure if that is really causing this or not. She grew up with nothing and not really a gold digger. 
4. She does not feel herself right now
5. Cannot put value in things I do for her, only $$$ in hand. 


I want to explain a few things I have done for her over the years since I am NOT a man. I spent weeks repairing her house and personally selling it to out more money in her pocket. I estimate realtor fees and improvements at 12-15K. That all went into her hand. Her father came ill and I put a LOT of time in to help her and her dad, move him, fight to get him moved to a new hospital. I also aided in repairing his place and personally selling it to maximize return and save on realtor fees (I am NOT a realtor). I estimate I made her and family 20-30K. I did not get a dime.

I worked with my acct to fix her 3 yrs of tax problems and saved her about 25K in fines and tax liability which she did not have. 

I settled her Estate Trust matter for her and her family from her dad's death. I saved her family about 30K in atty fees. I did not get paid a dime for my time. 

Her family is WORTHLESS so when she needs help, I DO IT. So it sort of pisses me off when she does not call me a man yet when she knows good and well, when times get tough, I get busy and I have NEVER walked away. I had zero direct benefit from any of the above, yet I do them for her. 

In short, I am a man of many talents and can do/build many things but she cannot see any worth in any of it for some reason. It is NOT that I am trying to hang my hat on that and not contribute monthly to our family, but the time factors for the above projects are STAGGERING!!! I had to do a LOT of reading to understand how to dissolve a trust correctly. 

Maybe I am the one that needs help here. Maybe I am worthless and not seeing it.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

However she treats you before marriage will be the best she treats you after marriage. 

Read all the posts from men here who got the 'marry me and I will love you talk.' 

The more you do the less she respects you. This is the cat model.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

MEM11363 said:


> However she treats you before marriage will be the best she treats you after marriage.


You haven't gotten any answers in the lounge yet, do listen to MEM. She is on her best behavior now while she still wants something.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

bobsmith said:


> .
> 
> I am actually in that same boat because I have been avoiding marriage for a few reasons. One is that the statistics of marriage are VERY scary for me and I want to me married for life. Two is that I have been waiting for that woman I wanted to marry come back out. She does not touch me, does not really do **** for me other than stuff around the house that I also help with. I want someone that acts like they want to be with me, play with me, etc. She shows none of that and tells me "I can give you so much more in marriage". Sort of a roll of dice if you ask me. *Actually, it sounds more like blackmail than a roll of the dice*
> 
> ...


*She is being completely disrespectful to you and this is no way to get into a marriage let alone stay in a relationship. Should I even ask what your sex life is like? Let me guess....It only happens when SHE wants.

To be honest, regardless of an affair or not, I would give this woman her walking papers. If you don't and pursue this marriage, I won't be surprised to see you in the divorce section of TAM withing 3 years of your ceremony

Sorry, I justs calls em how I sees em!*


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

Do you see my efforts as genuine and have worth or should I just expect, as the "provider" to have to do all these things, plus take care of the kids, plus write her a check?

I am really serious. I am trying to figure out if I am screwed up in the head by hanging all my "efforts" over her head with XXX value attached to them. I mean, I certainly don't refer to them in dollar signs but that seems to be all she relates to. 

She tells me constantly, "I just want to see you trying to contribute to the family somewhere, somehow". In which I say "a roof, lights, heat, TV, Inet, water, ****ter, is not enough?" I guess I expect her to pay for something other than her starbucks and Old Navy ventures. Don't get me wrong, she does not spend a LOT but..... I do NOT buy one thing for myself because things are tight. Well, I do spend about 30-40/mo on beer but I think I NEED it right now....lol

I never wanted to be with ANYONE that is a leach. I like working women and she DOES work damn hard. When I met her, she had a mini truck with a bad clutch, no AC, one door welded shut but leaking so she had a blanket in the truck. Other car was a 2 seater that they could not keep running MR2. She STILL resents that I sold both of them and got her into a decent car, for our new baby. She did assume that loan but we are talking like $7k and I did not know her very long. I repaired and sold both vehicles. She also had a Harley and I sold that but only paid off the note on that. So we swapped her 3 rides for a decent car.... She thought I should have sold my only truck and bought a **** wagon to drive and buy her a car. I don;t know. I don't see anything I have done as that wrong but her resentment is amazing...


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## Pollon (Nov 13, 2012)

I will get back to you shortly.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

bob,

Let me try and put this a little more up front

She doesn't respect you
She views you as ATM there to provide for her (and she's pissed that the account balance is so low)
She has compltetly disrespected you as a person and a man
She has taken for granted ALL the things you've done for her and her family and how much money you've saved them

I would tell her that seeing as she feels that you don't contribute enough to the family, from this point foward, all household expenses such as mortage, insurance (car insurance too) heat, electric, internet etc will be split down the middle between the two of you!

In all honesty, I would give this money grubbing SOB the boot!


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

I thought I would update that we had a 5hr conversation last night and I think finally getting somewhere. I threw a lot of my frustrations out as anger but she actually appreciated my honesty and call out on all this. Apparently her upbringing and previous relationship failures have really shut her down and as I have explained, I could care less if she loves me. If she cannot show it or articulate that, we are doomed. I think a lot of lights went off last night so I will see where this goes. I plan to be VERY straight up in the immediate as far as what I want, expect, and will offer. I am a very "reasonable" person and as for example, when I build out her entire bathroom for HER (her house), I DO expect some level of gratitude and/or sex for that. A simple "thanks" just does not do it for me. 

You have to give to get....


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## Pollon (Nov 13, 2012)

Bob,

I’m going to give my interpretation of what you presented. I fully realize that I don’t have the full picture, her side and a host of other factors. So take it for what it’s worth. It helps me to do this as it clarifies how I work with couples who present with similar situations. The other ideas posted could be more applicable, but I’m going to assume both of you would like to save the relationship and, therefore, need to address the more underlying issue. Often people cannot identify their own underlying issue, so I don’t think your partner is playing games here. She is just having gut reactions to what she is experiencing and can’t verbalize it. 

You are building a life together with kids, responsibilities, homes, etc. From her perspective, you have been a great helper. You jump in to tackle tasks and take care of business. That’s why she loves you and is still with you. However, you have sent her many signals indicating that you aren’t fully invested in this family. Like a hired hand, rather than an owner, you are holding back and keeping your options open. You’ve said, in one way or another, “if I’m not getting what I want (a guarantee it will last for life, sex, etc.), I’m outta here.” Having read your signals that way, she has to be anxious about her long-term future and that of your children. 

In one of your replies you said that at first marriage was no “biggy.” And I’ll assume that was true for both of you. However, as the reality and work of family has increased and your partner has grown older (she knows an older single mother has limited prospects compared to an older, non-custodial father), the importance of commitment is becoming apparent.

Here’s what you say she said and how I would interpret it.

“[You] don’t pay anything directly for our kids.”

--Paying for the overhead is great, but you would have to pay that anyway if you lived alone. True, it might be less but your basic live-in boyfriend would do that. A good husband would 1) consider his money to be everyone’s money and 2) if needed, get a second job to take care of his family. 

“[You] don't make her feel secure in our future.”

--In one way or another, you have said “my being here is conditional.” Every marriage has conditions, too. But refusing to marry her says, “I’m not fully committed and want the quickest way to the exits, if conditions aren’t met.” Your holding back is the behavior of an employee who isn’t invested in the success of the endeavor. An employee is gone when the paycheck bounces. An investor/partner jumps in to pick up the slack and keep the company alive. It is obvious that you care about her and you are willing to fight for this. Nonetheless, you’ve said enough for her to doubt your staying power.

“[You are] not acting like a real man”

--a real man puts his responsibility to others ahead of his fears, wants, desires, etc. He makes a long-term commitment to those who need him for the long-term.

You have been together for eleven years. It sounds like she may have wanted a commitment from you before having a second child. So you proposed. Here she is three years later with another child and no closer to marriage. She’s probably feeling betrayed. Sure she isn’t feeling very loving toward you. Maybe she has even lost respect for you (and herself). When you were discussing the ice maker, the lighted sign went on that said, “Warning, Warning!!! Here you go again, digging in deeper with this man who won’t commit to you.” She wants to know who she can count on for the future.

If I’m right about all this, the way to save this requires a major attitude adjustment on your part. Everything in your mind has to be about we, us, ours and our future. You have to drop any thoughts of yours, mine and “if things don’t work out.” You have to lose the “if this is as good as it gets, I don’t want it.” Think about who she was when things were good and decide if you want to spend the rest of your life with her. Then get married and work at getting her back.

I totally understand that given the condition of your relationship, this would be really hard. However, it seems to me that your current approach of demanding more from her just reinforces the belief that your continued presence is temporary and conditional. This, in turn, will result in her further distancing herself from you, so she can seek out a long-term partner before it’s too late.


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

Thank you very much for your assessment and I think, for the most part, you are spot on. However, regarding my commitment to my family, I guess I see it as when she is hospitalized, her father dies, or some other serious life matter, I have ALWAYS been there. She has told me now that she tells everyone how great I am and all that I do for her, yet she does not tell ME that...

I hear you LOUD AND CLEAR on the family stuff and have already made MAJOR changes in my life to correct this and absolutely will. I have made it VERY clear that I needed ***** slapped and I do cherish my family above all else. 

I thought we were on the right track and so I sent an email yesterday morning that I would make the family dinner, do the kitchen, and get the kids in bed, then I want to retire to the bedroom with her. I did not hear anything from her other than "sounds good". We were just talking after the kids were in bed and she blew up saying I said something that pissed her off just now and I had hardly said anything...... I was dumb founded to say the least. Then she said she had been waiting 3 hrs to give me special pleasures and I have no ruined it.....

The chain of events was that she walked to me and said something about "so your needs are not getting met huh?" sort of naughty like. I then said something about "well, I did want to apologize if that sounded more like a demand". She said I was supposed to shut up (never said that). 

I am at a total WTF point right now.... I mean, are her screws coming loose or something?


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## hldnhope (Apr 10, 2012)

You have been given some great advice so far...as far as your question, definitely start with this book. I was a great read and put a lot into perspective for me. My situation sounds very similar...no touching, and no real fighting> which means little passion and that she maybe holding it in and resenting you.

I Love You, but I'm Not IN Love with You: Seven Steps to Saving Your Relationship: Andrew G. Marshall: 9780757305481: Amazon.com: Books


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