# Need help figuring this out.



## Trying2getitRIGHT

My wife and I have been married for little over 3 years, together little over 5. We used to have a very volatile relationship. She was sexually abused growing up, so she was very controlling, and manipulative. I allowed it. I became very needy and clingy, and sought her approval constantly. I read Athol Kays book on married man sex life primer. I followed his plan. Lost 80 lbs and look pretty good. She is almost 200 lbs now but a very pretty woman. I began working on me, i dont seek her approval anymore, I dont let her bait to fight suck me in. She has reacted to my not giving a damn by seemingly doing the same. She now seems more disinterested in me than before. She used to at least initiate sex once or twice a month, now not at all. She will cuddle with me in bed, lay together in bed, but during the day she is somewhat cold not very affectionate. We are a blended fanily of 7 kids. 3 mine from before, 2 hers before me, 2 together. She will ocassionally talk about having more kids together, but it seems she is not very interested in me. Rarely says i love you now, rarely loves on me. Is this a test to see if i will start chasing her, worshipping her and seeking her approval again? Thanks in advance.


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## SunCMars

No....

Her light is the only light to be seen.

Her mind revolves around it's self.

There is no 'you' in herself.

She is unhappy.
At some point, I know not when, she needs to be unhappy from you.
You being gone.


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## Trying2getitRIGHT

She needs to be unhappy from me? Thanks


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## Bananapeel

Both people have to want the relationship to work for it to be successful. She is showing you that she isn't committed and doesn't value you. You could try counseling, but the odds are low it will change your situation.


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## Trying2getitRIGHT

So anotherwords she isnt interested unless im worshipping her?


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## Cletus

Just because Athol Kay wrote it on a book does not make it a law of the universe. 

You tried an experiment in your relationship and it failed to produce the desired outcome. Probably because the desired outcome was to change your wife, a proposition always more likely to fail than not.

And since this is in the long term success forum, I might add that learning to accept your partner as they are within reasonable boundaries is one of the most important lessons.


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## EleGirl

Athol Kays is not an expert. He's some guy who used to post here on TAM. Then he got an idea and wrote a book and created a website to make a lot of money. While some men find some help with his book, many do not. 

If a my husband treated me with disinterest, I would divorce him... oh wait, I did divorce him and that was one of the reasons.

You seem to think that there are only two choices of how to treat your wife, disinterest or worship. There is at least one other way, that that's to treat her with love, respect and have interest in her.

Generally, when two people form a relationship, part of the attraction is that their emotional states match. You say that you worshipped her despite her need to abuse you. Well, when you stopped the 'worship nonsense, she no longer could fill her need to have a man to abuse. She still has that need. So of course she has pulled away from you.

Could you give us some examples of how you show disinterest in her? Does that mean that you won't talk to her about things? Does it mean that you never do things with her? Give us some examples so we can understand what you are doing.


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## Trying2getitRIGHT

Disinterest may be a bad word to use. I no longer grovel and chase her, orbit her. I became my own person. I still go up to her at least once a day and hug her, and tell her I love her. I try to tell her she is beautiful once a day still. I used to hover around her. I was not like this when we met, somewhere in there she gained control over me with her crazy threats and such. Im a good looking guy, nice build, and have a good sense of humor. All things she used to like. Now that i dont orbit her, she really does not compliment me, love on me much or say kind things to me. She will ocassionally call me sweetie and honey throughout the day, but mostly seems like she has no interest in me. I get a lot of interest during the day, im a business owner and have a lot of opportunity, but I love my wife and would like her to be interested in me like she used to be. She is not in very good health in my opinion, and is overweight. She ocassionally says something about having another child together, but there is little to no interest in sex. She was molested by stepdad growing up. I think this is part of problem but i could be wrong. Thanks for response.


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## Trying2getitRIGHT

She used to be very passionate about us. She does not like the idea of me with anyone but her, but does not seem to want me either. I used to be very beta, ive worked on my Alpha, im no longer a pushover and do not take any “stuff”. I do say sorry and ask for forgiveness when i do wrong. Hope this helps.


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## MJJEAN

Just a guess, but when you were orbiting her and chasing her you made her feel secure. When you stopped, when you detached a bit, you made her feel insecure and she detached in self-preservation.


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## Trying2getitRIGHT

So what should I do?


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## GuyInColorado

You should keep getting into amazing shape and focus on you. Go buy yourself a nice car, a nice watch, nice clothes, etc. 

The kids definitely make you try to save this. We both know if there were no kids in the picture, you would have been gone years ago. How old is the youngest kid? Put a plan into place. If you can, start stashing cash. 

When was the last time you were intimate? Have you taken her on a out of town trip in a while? When was last time you two went on a long date?


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## Quality

Almost the entire genre of marital self-help books are read by and marketed to women so it's nice that a little niche has been carved out for men, however, of all the self-help books your MARRIAGE needs you to read, MMSLP isn't one of them.

As Elegirl points out above, Kay is not an expert in any way. He's just an internet poster that's read way too many "pick up artist" and "red pill" websites. Ahtol doesn't sound like a bad guy in the sense that he's been married a long time and appears to have a quality marriage so there is that, but the entire concepts he bases his ideas upon were written and conceived of by some of the biggest losers on the planet that simply figured out how to prey upon vulnerable lonely women in bars. While applying those juvenile tactics to your wife is amusing, it's not really a productive way to improve your RELATIONSHIP. 

This concept works both ways. Books like the "love dare", "6 ways to love your husband better" and any self-help book a wife {or, occasionally, husband} read separately USUALLY make your marriage and relationship WORSE, too. The inevitable disappointment of raising expectations.

Consider this...you did all that work. Read a book. Really internalized it and tried applying it to yourself and your marriage. You put a lot of effort into losing weight and trying to attract your spouse only to come to the conclusion it didn't or doesn't appear to be working. Now you're frustrated and feeling upset at your wife and even MORE disappointed in your marriage and relationship because she failed expectations that she didn't even know existed and certainly wouldn't have agreed to. She's even probably ticked off because you've been working out and losing weight spending an inordinate amount of time on yourself {versus making her feel like she's any kind of priority in your life and cherished at all - which, when she finds out you did it all for more sex, won't really help matters because it just makes her feel like that's her only value to her}. The result then becomes you withdraw feeling like "you tried" and your wife withdrawals because she just sees you acting aloof, weird, distant, self-absorbed, manipulative {some of that stuff is so transparent} and then whiney when your endeavor failed. 

Relationships are improved by working together. 

If you, as a husband want to work on your marriage, I would suggest finding a local church and doing a blended family small group book study. Maybe take a road trip and attend a Focus On the Family Weekend to Remember marriage conference. Or take a road trip and listen to a marriage book on tape {as though cars have tape players anymore}. 

You could even read the silly Kay book together and laugh at the techniques and concepts together but then, when you try to apply one of them, she gets the idea that you are flirting and trying to apply something to improve your relationship and she just might let you "lay her like tile" because you've built intimacy by sharing, laughing at and discussing the book and spending time together. She MIGHT actually notice you working out and losing weight as a way to attract her {because otherwise, you just look self-indulgent and maybe even like you are passive aggressively telling her to lose weight and get in shape herself}.

With a blended family, you've certainly got a lot going there in your home. A lot of relationship dynamics and personalities as everyone competes to find their place in the hierarchy. The last thing your wife wants to feel is ignored. She's less likely to chase because there are others there just begging to fill the void and be "mom's" #1 priority. She's not the lonely girl at the bar ranking potential mates who can be easily manipulated. She's tired and isn't likely going to compete for your attention.


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## Trying2getitRIGHT

I take her on dates weekly, atleast one dinner date or desert and coffee date. About three months ago sex became once a week, now its about 2 times a week. We had sex monday of this week, i rolled over and got on top of her, she said we can if you want. I did! Lol. I take her out for coffee almost every morning. Youngest just turned 2. I took family to disney world this summer, went on week camping vacation in october, going to iowa for week in about a week.


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## GuyInColorado

With that many kids and the youngest 2, she's probably exhausted and overwhelmed. Does she work outside the house? Or is she stuck with kids 24/7/365? If she's overweight, she's kinda given up. See it all the time. You have to get her out of this funk.


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## Trying2getitRIGHT

Thank you for the input. I spend a lot of time on my wife. I think I mentioned i take her on dates weekly. We are followers of Yahshua. Most marriage help from the “church” is bad, centered around enabling women to usurp Yahwehs created order, meaning that they endorse the “help meet” to be the “control freak”. Men need to be what Elohym made them to be, leaders. If a man does not lead and is a pushover, there is nothing to respect. But I clean daily for my wife, help her with our children. But I do believe a man needs to have boundaries, set forth by Yahweh, and stick to those non negotiables.


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## Trying2getitRIGHT

Thank you for the input. I spend a lot of time on my wife. I think I mentioned i take her on dates weekly. We are followers of Yahshua. Most marriage help from the “church” is bad, centered around enabling women to usurp Yahwehs created order, meaning that they endorse the “help meet” to be the “control freak”. Men need to be what Elohym made them to be, leaders. If a man does not lead and is a pushover, there is nothing to respect. But I clean daily for my wife, help her with our children. But I do believe a man needs to have boundaries, set forth by Yahweh, and stick to those non negotiables.


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## happy as a clam

My guess is you’ve detached and de-orbited to the point where she no longer sees you as remotely vulnerable. By vulnerable, I mean there is a certain vulnerability that comes with being emotionally intimate with someone. And that kind of vulnerability is implied by the very definition of marriage.

I think you may have “alpha’d up” too much...


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## Trying2getitRIGHT

BTW, thank you ALL for input. I realize that people are busy, and to take time from your day to help by responding means a lot. My desire is to be a good husband and father. Im trying to do the best for my family and it is awesome to have this venue. Thank you all so very much.


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## Trying2getitRIGHT

So I need to find a better balance?


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## FrenchFry

Have you tried talking to your wife?


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## MJJEAN

Trying2getitRIGHT said:


> So I need to find a better balance?


Yes.

Women who were sexually abused as children or adolescents often have deep feelings of shame, unworthiness, and generally "not good enough". Women need security. Emotional, physical, and financial. Women who suffered abuse even more so, in my experience. When you were acting a bit of a sap, she felt secure because you clearly worshiped her. It helped make her feel valued. It helped her be emotionally vulnerable. It gave her confidence. Then you changed, became different, became detached. 

Frankly, if some fool told my DH to change his look, spend more time "out" or on hobbies than with me, and lose a bunch of weight, I'd be distant, too. I adore DH the way he is and I don't want some "new and improved" version. I like my DH's look. I love that we spend a lot, some say too much, of our time together. I think his "dad bod" is sexy as hell and I am just not into smaller built guys. 

Also, for the record, signs of an affair include changing appearance, losing weight, spending less time at home, and being more distant/disinterested. It wouldn't be unreasonable of her to wonder if you're having an affair and to subsequently detach emotionally and intimately.


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## Evinrude58

I'm curious if your wife may just be in a rut. You haven't said what SHE said when you talked to HER about this.

Try telling her you love her, that she is the woman for you. That you don't feel you are satisfying her in bed. That you want to do whatever it takes to satisfy her. Could you tell someone exactly what she likes most in bed? If you don't know, try asking her. NOT while you're in bed. Just a conversation in the evening when she's relaxed, bring it up. Make it a light conversation. Tell her you are madly in love with her and that you are worried she is NOT with you because she doesn't seem to want you anymore. You CAN'T tell her you need her to tell you she loves you, or need more hugs, or need more affection. That's a SURE way to ENSURE you won't get it, because she'll feel like she's forcing herself and it will turn her off. 

Think about the fact that you're already doing a lot. If it's not enough, then most likely nothing extra on your part is going to make a difference. You've got to find a way to get her interested. BUt it may not be possible. It's not necessarily her fault. 
I doubt you could encourage her to lose weight without offending or hurting her, but the weight will cut down on sex drive, no doubt.

You're in a tight spot, bro.


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## Trying2getitRIGHT

Its quite bizarre. You make good points. She will ocassionally show interest, but overall its like indifference. I feel sometimes its like a parasite, she has got all she can from me, it was fun for a while now its old news, move on. I feel disposable. She is a stay at home mom, i often wonder if shes got an emotional crush online but we share a FB. Shes just here. She is addicted to FB and garage sales and our children. Im just a necessity for a means for her to stay home with children. Oh well.


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## Anastasia6

Let me get this straight you have a wife with 7 children one only two years old. You decide your going to take advice that says change completely the dynamics of your relationship, and ignore her, try looking better, and when offered sex you just climbed on. 

1. Did she orgasm? Or was she left feeling like a receptacle for your sperm?

2. I appreciate you wanting to improve the relationship. However I agree that your actions just made of mother of 7 feel that there is no security in what she thought was a secure relationship. You may even get sex more often if she's trying to bond but may no longer desire it. Or she may do it less as she just won't mentally be up for it with someone she not certain about.

3. Changing from beta to alpha is a huge change. But when you enter a relationship you 'agree' to roles and such through dating and engagement periods. If you were Beta then you are now trying a huge shift of power outside of the original agreement. Again this would make her feel unstable.

4. Have you tried talking with her in a loving and no confrontational way? You could even let her know you are trying to be more of a leader for the family. Of course please understand what leadership really is. Many Betas want to be in charge but not be leaders. It is harder than it looks and is appreciated when done well. But if you usurp a leader (like your wife?) and then do a poor job leading/planning keeping track of the troops it doesn't usually go well and resentment builds.

5. You can take to her positively about changing yourself, and changes you want to make. Like I'm going to try to get some exercise each day. Do not try to force change on her.

5. I am curious you really didn't give examples of how you orbited her, or whatever. I'm interested to see was this a problem or did some man book convince you doing a few chores is being a bad man. With seven kids I can't imagine there is any end of chores or needs to be met.

6. If you want to read a book try the five languages of love.


Just food for thought. I'm no expert but I'll be celebrating 24 years on Christmas Day. I think avoiding fighting is good. Better to get to the root of the problem. Don't play passive aggressive games which ignoring your spouse is a game. Now she's playing it too how's that working for your marriage. Take her to dinner, apologize. Say honey I'm sorry I wanted to improve our marriage. I read a book that said to ignore to get you to meet my needs. I can see now that was bad advice. Let her know the things you'd like to improve. Think ahead of time carefully what those needs are, how do you Really want to change your relationship. Do you really want to be in charge of the kids after school sports? If not don't say generic thing like I need to stop orbiting you. Be specific, stick to what really counts, don't bring up past hurts, hear her if she chooses to talk. Acknowledge and ask if she would like changes. Discuss that you expect it to take time and that you want to be her partner.

Example. You brought up her weight but said she still attractive. So if it isn't an issue don't bring it up. But if something else bothers you (made up since you didn't give specifics). After the intro... 'Honey I love how you keep track of our money and take care of paying the bills. I would like to be involved with the vacation planning. How much are we planning on spending? Do you mind if I pick the spot? ( insert push back from her here as alphas don't let go easy). I would like to be involved. It is important to me. You planned the last vacation. Im going to have a whack at this one. I'm trying to be more involved.

Or is like to have Thursday nights to go to the gym. If you want I'll take the kids Tuesday so you can do something you want.

Or if it is much more serious. Honey I love you. I think our relationship is not as healthy as it could be. I'd like to work on it with you. Can we read some marriage books together? Because I'm committed to you and our family I just want us to be as strong as possible. I hear the five languages of love is good or his needs her needs. ( also lots of other books each of you pick a book, read them both together and use date night to discuss them or put them in action). 

Be prepared to answer the question what's wrong. Be careful and truthful. A good place to start is well we fight too much. It hurts me when we do.


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## pragmaticGoddess

Trying2getitRIGHT said:


> My wife and I have been married for little over 3 years, together little over 5. We used to have a very volatile relationship. She was sexually abused growing up, so she was very controlling, and manipulative. I allowed it. I became very needy and clingy, and sought her approval constantly. I read Athol Kays book on married man sex life primer. I followed his plan. Lost 80 lbs and look pretty good. She is almost 200 lbs now but a very pretty woman. I began working on me, i dont seek her approval anymore, I dont let her bait to fight suck me in. She has reacted to my not giving a damn by seemingly doing the same. She now seems more disinterested in me than before. She used to at least initiate sex once or twice a month, now not at all. She will cuddle with me in bed, lay together in bed, but during the day she is somewhat cold not very affectionate. We are a blended fanily of 7 kids. 3 mine from before, 2 hers before me, 2 together. She will ocassionally talk about having more kids together, but it seems she is not very interested in me. Rarely says i love you now, rarely loves on me. Is this a test to see if i will start chasing her, worshipping her and seeking her approval again? Thanks in advance.


Initially instead of accepting the way she treated you you should have encouraged her to seek professional help. Has she seen a counselor to deal with the abuse she suffered? Good on you for losing weight and focusing more on yourself. In my opinion even if you don't verbally seek her approval you're still dependent on her validation. You're still looking for her to say I love you and be affectionate. 

I don't think a marriage is supposed to work this way, where you pull away so she will come closer and vice versa. It's not a game of who loves who more. Have you had an open conversation with her about her seemed disinterest? And can you start the I love yous and affectionate gestures. They are not the same as seeking approval, you're saying you love her. You don't have to worship her but you can demonstrate you adore her.


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## EleGirl

I think you would benefit from the books "Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs". Read them and do the work that they suggest. Then see if you can get your wife to read them and do the work.

There is something missing in your relationship and the only way to fix this is if the two of you can talk it out and discover what that is.. then fix it. These two books go a long way to help this happen.


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