# Karma



## stillINshock (Apr 9, 2009)

More than five years later... 

Just learned that the OW my H chose to have an affair with has been diagnosed with cancer.

I don't celebrate this news. But as soon as I learned about this the only emotion I felt can be expressed in one word: Karma.

As far as I know my H has no idea - and I won't be telling him. He has his own karma to deal with.

As with everything else relating to my H's past behavior and its detrimental impact on me... onward. Just reassuring to be reminded of the power of karma.


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## changedbeliefs (Jun 13, 2014)

You're using "karma" to excuse the fact that you're taking pleasure in the suffering of another human being. That person has an entire life they lived, and likely very many family members and friends who are going to be deeply saddened and heartbroken should she succumb to the disease. And you're sitting here, reflecting on one sliver of her life, saying, "good." I think that's deplorable.


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

changedbeliefs said:


> You're using "karma" to excuse the fact that you're taking pleasure in the suffering of another human being. That person has an entire life they lived, and likely very many family members and friends who are going to be deeply saddened and heartbroken should she succumb to the disease. And you're sitting here, reflecting on one sliver of her life, saying, "good." I think that's deplorable.


Agreed....Especially after 5 years. Get some therapy.


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## stillINshock (Apr 9, 2009)

Interpret as you wish. You are not in my shoes and I am not in yours. 

As said, I do not celebrate it. I simply honor the power of the universe... and the karma that she, you, me, and all experience.

"Don't waste your time on revenge. Those who hurt you will eventually face their own karma." Matareva Pearl


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

I given up on trying to decide how other people should feel or "move on" after betrayal. Clearly the betrayers had no concern for anyone else's feelings.


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

That's not karma...that's just life. It wasn't even your ex who died but his spouse.

Karma is moving on with your life forgiving the wrongs you've been subjected too and controlling your destiny.


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

Forest said:


> I given up on trying to decide how other people should feel or "move on" after betrayal. Clearly the betrayers had no concern for anyone else's feelings.


Your right....I should not tell OP how to feel. They are her feelings.


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## changedbeliefs (Jun 13, 2014)

"The universe" does not have its own plan, and certainly isn't plotting out specific vengeance against individuals. "Karma" is an excuse we use when we single out situations that we prefer, and try to justify - in this case - our own selfish joy in the suffering of others. I mean, what you're basically saying is, "hey, hey, hey.....I don't wish bad on them.....I'm just really happy the universe has decided to kill this person via a likely painful and harrowing disease."

I stand by my comment that it's sad and deplorable, and mentally unhealthy, that you're reveling (I'm sorry, "honoring the power of the universe") in the suffering of another human being that caused you pain five years ago. I find it ironic that, in a lion's share of instances, it seems to me, that people who invoke religious ideals also seem to show how resistant they are to forgiveness.


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## stillINshock (Apr 9, 2009)

I do agree that the whole situation - everything about it from it's beginning to today and beyond - is "sad, and deplorable, and mentally unhealthy."


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

stillINshock said:


> I do agree that the whole situation - everything about it from it's beginning to today and beyond - is "sad, and deplorable, and mentally unhealthy."


I can agree with that. Lived thru it myself. Thought I was going to die when it happened. Now a couple years later I'm good but not the same.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Whatjew gonna do if karma comes back and hits your old man in the azz. Your like many,,putting the lions share of the blame on the other person. I'm sure your old man gave her the, "my wife doesn't understand me" story.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

What is ironic is a wayward spouse telling a betrayed spouse how to feel about an AP.

and this was from an another thread that R is extremely difficult because the AP is always present or on the mind of the BS.


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## stillINshock (Apr 9, 2009)

Phx - Trust me... he was more to blame than her. And she wasn't the only one. He has his own karma to work through, which is exactly why I feel no revenge. (Though it may be hard for some to interpret/understand this from my post.) 

"Stay clam, and let karma carry it on."


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

The thing about karma is... if you feel she deserves this, then you would have to believe you did something to deserve your husband cheating on you.

That is one of the major arguments/problems with the idea of karma.

With that said, from a betrayed point of view, I can't imagine you feeling any happiness for her ever.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

I understand your feeling this way as there is built up anger and while it is easy for some to blast you for feeling this way, I get it. Personally, I would rather see the cheaters get screwed over themselves and have their marriage go down in flames as they deserve it. People react differently to betrayal. Some kill, some cry and stay with the person, some divorce and do so decisively and some live in misery while others R and do well. Some don't. So IMO your feelings are natural although I truly believe you don't want this person to die. Little good could come out of your H knowing about the cancer. IMO, that is a right call by you.


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## changedbeliefs (Jun 13, 2014)

convert said:


> What is ironic is a wayward spouse telling a betrayed spouse how to feel about an AP.


It's "ironic" only if you believe that there is no such thing as someone having a useful perspective from a standpoint other than your own. As a WS, who has been through a lot of IC, and also MC, who is nearly six years post-A, who is in the midst of an, as now, successful R, who has discovered an awful lot about himself, his own marriage and (via this forum, and listening to as many other friends as I can) other marriages....maybe....just maybe....I have something worthwhile to add.

I appreciate that "walking a mile in someone's shoes" is a very poignant saying, and we all should be humble enough to realize when we haven't. But you should also realize, NO ONE ever has, and ever will. EVERY situation is a little different. That doesn't mean external input can't be helpful, whether it be from a very similar situation, a totally different situation, or from the other side of a similar situation. The WS's of TAM love to stand on their pedestals over the BS's, but if you'd all climb down for a minute, you just may realize that there is a wealth of perspective there you just may be missing out on.


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## stillINshock (Apr 9, 2009)

Jellybeans said:


> The thing about karma is... if you feel she deserves this, then you would have to accept you did something to deserve your husband cheating on you.
> 
> That is one of the major arguments/problems with the idea of karma.
> 
> With that said, from a betrayed point of view, I can't imagine you feeling any happiness for her ever.


I don't know that a betrayed person should feel they deserve it. (I'm not saying that is what you meant.) But, yes, I agree, karma is what karma does... and I too have my own karma to mind.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Right but what I am saying is that the idea of karma is that you get back what you deserve. So if you believe that this is her karma, then it would have been your karma for X to happen, etc.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

changedbeliefs said:


> It's "ironic" only if you believe that there is no such thing as someone having a useful perspective from a standpoint other than your own. As a WS, who has been through a lot of IC, and also MC, who is nearly six years post-A, who is in the midst of an, as now, successful R, who has discovered an awful lot about himself, his own marriage and (via this forum, and listening to as many other friends as I can) other marriages....maybe....just maybe....I have something worthwhile to add.
> 
> I appreciate that "walking a mile in someone's shoes" is a very poignant saying, and we all should be humble enough to realize when we haven't. But you should also realize, NO ONE ever has, and ever will. EVERY situation is a little different. That doesn't mean external input can't be *helpful*, whether it be from a very similar situation, a totally different situation, or from the other side of a similar situation. The WS's of TAM love to stand on their pedestals over the BS's, but if you'd all climb down for a minute, you just may realize that there is a wealth of perspective there you just may be missing out on.


This is the key word, posters should be helpful when they post a comment(s)


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## changedbeliefs (Jun 13, 2014)

Jellybeans said:


> The thing about karma is... if you feel she deserves this, then you would have to believe you did something to deserve your husband cheating on you.
> 
> That is one of the major arguments/problems with the idea of karma.
> 
> With that said, from a betrayed point of view, I can't imagine you feeling any happiness for her ever.


It's the same with the "god gave us free will" vs. "god has as plan" argument. Oh, and time travel, too ;-). Eventually, your own concocted ideals will conflict, and you'll end up dismissing certain points because they just don't fit your agenda. The fact is, there are thousands, if not millions, of cheaters out there who never have, and never will, get caught. They'll live blissfully happy lives, which generally drives karma-believers mad. That's the gist: we want karma to GET people. But lots of times, it simply won't. Conversely, there are millions of other people that live admirable, "moral," gracious lives....and get cancer, or are killed in car crashes, or have their children suffer, etc... People will selectively see instances of karma when it fits their own projected desires. Saying "I hope karma gets you" is an end-around someone's own evil thoughts, like 'hey, it's not me!,' where they don't want to come out and say, in this case, "I'm glad a woman is going to die of cancer."


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## stillINshock (Apr 9, 2009)

Jellybeans said:


> Right but what I am saying is that the idea of karma is that you get back what you deserve. So if you believe that this is her karma, then it would have been your karma for X to happen, etc.


I get what you are saying. And I'm not saying I'm better than whatever karma sends (has sent) my way. With the news I learned about the OW, I was surprised by my lack of negative/revenge feeling, and instead at peace with appreciation of the bigger force we all live within. Just trying to live my life with karma always in mind. I believe in it. 
C'est la vie.


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## oneMOreguy (Aug 22, 2012)

She is just human with a human feeling. Her feelings are owned by her alone and are just fine as long as they do not disrupt her current life. And lets never forget that the ow helped murder her marriage. A tough feeling to overcome.


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## stillINshock (Apr 9, 2009)

changedbeliefs said:


> The fact is, there are thousands, if not millions, of cheaters out there who never have, and never will, get caught. They'll live blissfully happy lives,"


Until their next lives... 
Namaste CB


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## changedbeliefs (Jun 13, 2014)

convert said:


> This is the key word, posters should be helpful when they post a comment(s)


Absolutely, but "tough love" applies at times. There's a fine - well, not so fine, I think - line between that, and just yelling/condascending to someone. Karma, and religion as a whole (which I believe karma is de facto a part of) is a hot button of mine, especially in cases like this where I feel it's actually being used as a way to justify immoral behavior. One of my specific issues with religion is its desire to monopolize "morality." In my mind, "even as an atheist," it's immoral to take joy in someone's suffering.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Karma reminds me of childhood playground activities...

Cheaters proof!!!!

Therein lies its innocent existence. Deny as you wish.


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## changedbeliefs (Jun 13, 2014)

stillINshock said:


> Until their next lives...
> Namaste CB


You just keep proving my point. Talk about a last ditch effort. Somewhere, people managed to convince themselves, that if people don't "get what's coming to them" in this life, you'll live another life, and you'll get it in that one. OP, just admit you're a vengeful and vindictive person; maybe not in general, maybe not overall, but in this case, you're simply - and personally - happy that a fellow human being HAS CANCER.

And then I want you to tell me, that my father deserved to get cancer, and die. And then I want you to tell me that my best friend's 4 y/o niece deserved leukemia. In fact, why don't you go to her pediatric oncology ward and tell ALL THOSE KIDS what they did to bring on their own cancers.


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## stillINshock (Apr 9, 2009)

changedbeliefs said:


> You just keep proving my point. Talk about a last ditch effort. Somewhere, people managed to convince themselves, that if people don't "get what's coming to them" in this life, you'll live another life, and you'll get it in that one. OP, just admit you're a vengeful and vindictive person; maybe not in general, maybe not overall, but in this case, you're simply - and personally - happy that a fellow human being HAS CANCER.
> 
> And then I want you to tell me, that my father deserved to get cancer, and die. And then I want you to tell me that my best friend's 4 y/o niece deserved leukemia. In fact, why don't you go to her pediatric oncology ward and tell ALL THOSE KIDS what they did to bring on their own cancers.


Cancer is something far too many of us have personally experienced. I'm sorry my post has created such negativity for you today.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

changedbeliefs said:


> You just keep proving my point. Talk about a last ditch effort. Somewhere, people managed to convince themselves, that if people don't "get what's coming to them" in this life, you'll live another life, and you'll get it in that one. OP, just admit you're a vengeful and vindictive person; maybe not in general, maybe not overall, but in this case, you're simply - and personally - happy that a fellow human being HAS CANCER.
> 
> And then I want you to tell me, that my father deserved to get cancer, and die. And then I want you to tell me that my best friend's 4 y/o niece deserved leukemia. In fact, why don't you go to her pediatric oncology ward and tell ALL THOSE KIDS what they did to bring on their own cancers.


The logic of your valid argument is expanding exponentially. Don't forget all those who have already succumbed next time, the those who will.

I respect your feelings and also those of the OP. Hope I am not wrong in not selecting the grand prize winner of how everyone feels about this.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

A number of unfortunate events have happened to the woman my ex-husband cheated with off and on for 30 years. Do I feel that's karma? No. I feel that's life. Those things would have happened whether she cheated with my ex-husband or not. 

I always find it interesting when a spouse reconciles with the cheater but continues to want the other party punished. They weren't the one who broke those vows to you. I certainly don't like the woman my ex-husband added to our marriage but she's not the one I blame for my marriage no longer existing. So focus on your husband and not the other woman.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

karma = means action, work or deed;[1] it also refers to the principle of causality where intent and actions of an individual influence the future of that individual.[2] Good intent and good deed contribute to good karma and future happiness, while bad intent and bad deed contribute to bad karma and future suffering per definiton in wikipedia/. 

Therefore, I don't see how karma has to do with anything with the OP or their actions. I disagree with anyone who says it does.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

changedbeliefs said:


> You just keep proving my point. Talk about a last ditch effort. Somewhere, people managed to convince themselves, that if people don't "get what's coming to them" in this life, you'll live another life, and you'll get it in that one. OP, just admit you're a vengeful and vindictive person; maybe not in general, maybe not overall, but in this case, you're simply - and personally - happy that a fellow human being HAS CANCER.
> 
> And then I want you to tell me, that my father deserved to get cancer, and die. And then I want you to tell me that my best friend's 4 y/o niece deserved leukemia. In fact, why don't you go to her pediatric oncology ward and tell ALL THOSE KIDS what they did to bring on their own cancers.


you are proving my point that comments should be helpful or at least not attacking.
So far you have told the OP that:
she is "taking pleasure in the suffering of another human being" (part of you first post to her)

The op is "sad and deplorable, mentally unhealthy", She is "reveling" in AP problems (part of you second post to her)

"Invoke religious ideals" 
calling her "immoral"
saying she (OP) is glad a women is going to die of cancer
insinuating to her that she must think you dad must being dyeing of cancer for karma.

These are all attacking and at least rude comments that do not have anything helpful.
not even close to tough love, that would be more like, telling her to get IC and divorce her husband or concentrate on her marriage get MC.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

Changedbeliefs, 

I believe the OP said in their original post that they 'don't celebrate this news'. So I am unsure where you equate that into being "I am happy this person is dying of cancer'. That was never said and the OP clarified this in following posts


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

I agree with Convert here. besides, I have seen numerous posts that attribute the OP as saying something she didn't say and to me, that's disrespectful. 

The OP also said they didn't mean to cause a stir (or something like that) but the stir is being caused by people who are putting words and thoughts into her mouth.


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## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

I think the OP is using TAM as a place to vent on her confused feelings. If we're all honest with ourselves, there would be mixed feelings to learn that something very bad had befallen the AP. She is obviously unable to talk to just anyone in her social circle about it.

Whether or not people agree with her feelings, they are valid feelings and TAM is an appropriate forum to get them off your chest.


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## stillINshock (Apr 9, 2009)

Thanks YR. I can only share this feeling with TAMers. It's just not something others can understand. 

And for those fresh to 'this side' of life... perhaps it gives a perspective at a very confusing and painful time.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

yeah_right said:


> I think the OP is using TAM as a place to vent on her confused feelings. If we're all honest with ourselves, there would be mixed feelings to learn that something very bad had befallen the AP. She is obviously unable to talk to just anyone in her social circle about it.
> 
> Whether or not people agree with her feelings, they are valid feelings and TAM is an appropriate forum to get them off your chest.


I agree.

I know I would have mixed feelings in my case.
the OM happened to be the best man at my wedding.
if OM got cancer, I don't know if i would feel anything, you see he died to me on Discovery Day, 1 year 9 months ago.

I do not know if I believe in karma but i sure don't have a problem with revenge and that is more unhealthy then believing in karma, and I really hate digging two graves.


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## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

convert said:


> I know I would have mixed feelings in my case.
> the OM happened to be the best man at my wedding.


Mixed feelings? I can't even begin to imagine the hurt and betrayal there. Feelings of revenge and karma would be mandatory. I felt a wee bit guilty when I giggled internally after learning the OW gained 30 lbs. and I didn't even know her well. Blows my mind to think how I'd react in your shoes.

And I have to agree with you that a WS simply has no true understanding on what a BS goes through emotionally and mentally, and simply is not qualified to make condemning statements on the morals of how a BS should feel.


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## changedbeliefs (Jun 13, 2014)

The OP came in here ONLY to post that the OW has cancer, and that she is "honoring the power of the universe" that gave it to her. That's not venting feelings, that is - with very little interpretation needed - "f her, I'm glad she has cancer." I pointed out that THAT sentinment, is pretty f'd up, yes, and I stand by it.


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## lovelyblue (Oct 25, 2013)

_Right but what I am saying is that the idea of karma is that you get back what you deserve. _

I believe in Karma and in I believe in this statement. This is why I all ways try my best to be good to people.

I also think that Karma doesn't have to effect the person directly sometimes it can effect someone close to the person who did the bad thing.

You has to be careful of the things that you do cause you never know if or when you'll get it back.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

changedbeliefs said:


> The OP came in here ONLY to post that the OW has cancer, and that she is "honoring the power of the universe" that gave it to her. That's not venting feelings, that is - with very little interpretation needed - "f her, I'm glad she has cancer." I pointed out that THAT sentinment, is pretty f'd up, yes, and I stand by it.


Just as your statements were meant as nothing but to judge and belittle her. You are now making it out like you just said it was unhealthy and such, but that is not the case. As you stated it takes "very little interpretation" to see that your statements weren't as shallow as you present them now, but were in actuality emotionally charged, rude, judgmental, and meant to hurt, belittle, and shame her for her thoughts and actions. Just admit that as you have charged her to admit her "wrongs".


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## RV9 (Sep 29, 2014)

changedbeliefs said:


> The OP came in here ONLY to post that the OW has cancer, and that she is "honoring the power of the universe" that gave it to her. That's not venting feelings, that is - with very little interpretation needed - "f her, I'm glad she has cancer." I pointed out that THAT sentinment, is pretty f'd up, yes, and I stand by it.


op's sentiment is hatred, pure and simple. And there's nothing wrong with it. If this is her closure, so be it. 

To understand OP's sentiments, look at any cornered, wounded animal. That's what we BSs are. That's what I am.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

changedbeliefs said:


> The OP came in here ONLY to post that the OW has cancer, and that she is "honoring the power of the universe" that gave it to her. That's not venting feelings, that is - with very little interpretation needed - "f her, I'm glad she has cancer." I pointed out that THAT sentinment, is pretty f'd up, yes, and I stand by it.


There's not much worse than to have a WS come on to a BS' thread and chastise her for how she feels. How about you climb down off your high horse and leave her alone.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

To me, "karma" would be more like if she was cheating on her BF in a back seat at a parking lot one night and her BF surprised them with a camera crew. Or the next married guy she's screwing's Wife shows up while she's on a date with him and goes all "Jerry Springer" on her slvtty ass in a restaurant.

That would be "karma". Directly related to the reason(s) that someone has wronged you.


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## RV9 (Sep 29, 2014)

Something I'd like to confess-

I talk about being civil to the ws. It's because when you have control over your own behavior, you have control over the wounded animal inside you. It keeps whining, growling, begging to be let out. It's unpredictable, to say the least. It feeds on others' pain, fear. It craves power, control, no means to that end taboo, consequences be damned. I've met it. I wish others will avoid it.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Don't worry, StillINSchock, I have cancer......

and I approve your message. 
(Guess I have been watching too many political ads).

Cancer is obviously a real emotional football. It seems that cancer sufferers get more sympathy (and more resources, especially us breat cancer sufferers) than say, someone afflicted with diabetes.

Both diseases can be fatal.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

yeah_right said:


> *Mixed feelings*? I can't even begin to imagine the hurt and betrayal there. Feelings of revenge and karma would be mandatory. I felt a wee bit guilty when I giggled internally after learning the OW gained 30 lbs. and I didn't even know her well. Blows my mind to think how I'd react in your shoes.
> 
> And I have to agree with you that a WS simply has no true understanding on what a BS goes through emotionally and mentally, and simply is not qualified to make condemning statements on the morals of how a BS should feel.


when i said I would have mixed feelings non of those feeling would have been good


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

When I had a look at my (future) husband's text exchanges with his erst while just a friend ex, I noticed that she texted him to tell him about her appointment at the doctor's.

At the the tender age of 29, she was being tested for diabetes, cholesterol and also said that she ws being referred to a nephrologist. (I had to look that up.....kidney specialist.)

About 10 minutes later, she texted back with the message "at least it's not cancer."

Let's talking about the timing of the message. It was 4 weeks after my (future) husband urged me to get a mammogram.

And it was 2 weeks after he had what he termed a "clear the air" dinner with his just a friend ex.

I also know, based on some other texts from her, that he had shared some intimate information about us (yeah, about our sex life) to her. she was repeating what he said in her texts to him.

So his mentioning to her that I might have cancer is not a stretch of the imagination at all.

What is sad here is that a 29 year old woman felt the need to compare her health issues with a woman who is 21 years older than she is.

Especially when she self described as needing _to loose (sic)_ 50 pounds before she turned 30. And I also noticed an e-mail exchange when she mentioned that she had sprained her ankle and couldn't put much weight on it. Hookay.

I hope then, that for all of you who felt the need to vilify StillINSchock in this thread for her sentiments, will also take the time, then, to make me feel better and tell me how awful that (much younger) woman was to gleefully convince my (future) husband that, somehow, cancer is an evil that trumps all others.


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## oneMOreguy (Aug 22, 2012)

changedbeliefs said:


> The OP came in here ONLY to post that the OW has cancer, and that she is "honoring the power of the universe" that gave it to her. That's not venting feelings, that is - with very little interpretation needed - "f her, I'm glad she has cancer." I pointed out that THAT sentinment, is pretty f'd up, yes, and I stand by it.


...I could agree with you if this were a cancer recovery site....but it is clearly not. It is a site that in large part is to allow wounded spouses to post honestly about their feelings, frustrations etc.

you ask for empathy for your position, but refuse to grant empathy for her position.....at least from where I stand and observe. For truth in packaging, I am a WS not a BS.


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## stillINshock (Apr 9, 2009)

NextTimeAround said:


> Don't worry, StillINSchock, I have cancer......
> 
> and I approve your message.
> (Guess I have been watching too many political ads).
> ...


NTA: Thank you. <3


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

that stinks, Convert. I am sorry that happened to you. That is betrayal on multiple levels. You clearly deserved better


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## changedbeliefs (Jun 13, 2014)

You're not realizing the subjectivity you're putting into your accusations. To "judge" someone, IMO, is to extrapolate isolated instances into larger statement about someone's inherent character. E.g. "That fat person must be lazy." I did not judge the OP. The closest I came is to call them vengeful and vindictive, however, I went on to say that maybe it's not the case in general, but that IN THIS CASE, I was calling them out to call a spade a spade. I felt they were hiding behind "karma" to make it sound like they could avoid taking that personal bullet. "Oh, no, no, I'm not mean, I don't wish bad on them....but, hey, karma got their ass..." Again, that is not a JUDGMENT of OP's character. I know nothing of the rest of their life. But THIS POST.....I'm calling them out on this post, and its true, passive-aggressively stated purpose. I did not call HER "sad and deplorable" or "mentally unhealthy," I said the SENTIMENT was.

As far as "belittling" someone, that is completely in the eye of the beholder. Critique, criticism, belittling...all points on a spectrum. I could have flown right out of the gate and just said, "you pompous, holier-than-thou no-good piece of ****," THAT is belittling. Calling OP out to not hide behind karma was step 1. By the time we got to step "smug," where she winked and assured me that everyone "gets theirs" eventually in some life, I didn't care much for her feelings, I admit. And, FWIW, I have seen more than my fair share of this exact sentiment from a "believer," where they essentially use their faith in some form of supernatural being/force to condemn someone. Whether it's "karma," or "judgment day" or whatever, the idea is the same: someone else is below me, and I can't wait until they suffer because of it. And I think that's ****ty.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

changedbeliefs said:


> You're not realizing the subjectivity you're putting into your accusations. To "judge" someone, IMO, is to extrapolate isolated instances into larger statement about someone's inherent character. E.g. "That fat person must be lazy." I did not judge the OP. The closest I came is to call them vengeful and vindictive, however, I went on to say that maybe it's not the case in general, but that IN THIS CASE, I was calling them out to call a spade a spade. I felt they were hiding behind "karma" to make it sound like they could avoid taking that personal bullet. "Oh, no, no, I'm not mean, I don't wish bad on them....but, hey, karma got their ass..." Again, that is not a JUDGMENT of OP's character. I know nothing of the rest of their life. But THIS POST.....I'm calling them out on this post, and its true, passive-aggressively stated purpose. I did not call HER "sad and deplorable" or "mentally unhealthy," I said the SENTIMENT was.
> 
> As far as "belittling" someone, that is completely in the eye of the beholder. Critique, criticism, belittling...all points on a spectrum. I could have flown right out of the gate and just said, "*you pompous, holier-than-thou no-good piece of *****," THAT is belittling. Calling OP out to not hide behind karma was step 1. By the time we got to step "smug," where she winked and assured me that everyone "gets theirs" eventually in some life, I didn't care much for her feelings, I admit. And, FWIW, I have seen more than my fair share of this exact sentiment from a "believer," where they essentially use their faith in some form of supernatural being/force to condemn someone. Whether it's "karma," or "judgment day" or whatever, the idea is the same: someone else is below me, and I can't wait until they suffer because of it. And I think that's ****ty.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

changedbeliefs said:


> You're not realizing the subjectivity you're putting into your accusations. To "judge" someone, IMO, is to extrapolate isolated instances into larger statement about someone's inherent character. E.g. "That fat person must be lazy." I did not judge the OP. The closest I came is to call them vengeful and vindictive, however, I went on to say that maybe it's not the case in general, but that IN THIS CASE, I was calling them out to call a spade a spade. I felt they were hiding behind "karma" to make it sound like they could avoid taking that personal bullet. "Oh, no, no, I'm not mean, I don't wish bad on them....but, hey, karma got their ass..." Again, that is not a JUDGMENT of OP's character. I know nothing of the rest of their life. But THIS POST.....I'm calling them out on this post, and its true, passive-aggressively stated purpose. I did not call HER "sad and deplorable" or "mentally unhealthy," I said the SENTIMENT was.


 Comments such as the following:

You're using "karma" to excuse the fact that you're taking pleasure in the suffering of another human being

you're reveling (I'm sorry, "honoring the power of the universe") in the suffering of another human being that caused you pain five years ago

Saying "I hope karma gets you" is an end-around someone's own evil thoughts

where I feel it's actually being used as a way to justify immoral behavior.

it's immoral to take joy in someone's suffering.

Are all made by you. So please tell me, which one's aren't talking to someone's character (as that is what judgement is according to you and these are all extrapolating the ideal that supporting this thought or the thought of karma in it are based upon a deeper immoral behavior as stated above) ??



> As far as "belittling" someone, that is completely in the eye of the beholder. Critique, criticism, belittling...all points on a spectrum. I could have flown right out of the gate and just said, "you pompous, holier-than-thou no-good piece of ****," THAT is belittling. Calling OP out to not hide behind karma was step 1. By the time we got to step "smug," where she winked and assured me that everyone "gets theirs" eventually in some life, I didn't care much for her feelings, I admit. And, FWIW, I have seen more than my fair share of this exact sentiment from a "believer," where they essentially use their faith in some form of supernatural being/force to condemn someone. Whether it's "karma," or "judgment day" or whatever, the idea is the same: someone else is below me, and I can't wait until they suffer because of it. And I think that's ****ty.


I agree that this ideal of someone is below you is awful, but we all share it in some form (in fact I have had several atheists tell me that when they have screwed me over, some by being intimate with my WW, that they owe me nothing as they are getting theirs on earth as there is nothing amoral or bad involved in their actions as their is no God, so they have used their lack of religion as justification also). 


As to belittling being in the eye of the beholder, that is basically saying, hey I don't see it that way so it isn't so and you are wrong for thinking it so. It is like telling your BS they are not allowed to hurt just because you cheated on them and lied to them as your intent was not malicious. Calling the OP those listed names above is direct insulting and malicious, and therefor assault, but it is not belittling. Belittling is to down play, put down, or make some one seem less important because of their thoughts or actions a direct attack as exampled above would never be belittling.. To tell them they are deplorable, sad, vindictive, etc is belittling them as the true intent is veiled so as to not appear so direct and attacking.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

It's not karma that you folks are describing. rather, it is what the Germans call schadenfreude.

Schadenfreude is pleasure derived from the misfortunes of others and literally means 'harm-joy.' It is the feeling of joy or pleasure when one sees another fail or suffer misfortune.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

I suggest many go back and just simply re-read OPs post #1 and reflect.

These accusations and what not ... Geeze.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

My FIL cheated on my MIL. She was diagnosed with cancer age 49. 6 months after the affair was discovered. MIL died at age 50. Yeah..karma...wth...


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

changedbeliefs said:


> You're not realizing the subjectivity you're putting into your accusations. To "judge" someone, IMO, is to extrapolate isolated instances into larger statement about someone's inherent character. E.g. "That fat person must be lazy." I did not judge the OP. The closest I came is to call them vengeful and vindictive, however, I went on to say that maybe it's not the case in general, but that IN THIS CASE, I was calling them out to call a spade a spade. I felt they were hiding behind "karma" to make it sound like they could avoid taking that personal bullet. "Oh, no, no, I'm not mean, I don't wish bad on them....but, hey, karma got their ass..." Again, that is not a JUDGMENT of OP's character. I know nothing of the rest of their life. But THIS POST.....I'm calling them out on this post, and its true, passive-aggressively stated purpose. I did not call HER "sad and deplorable" or "mentally unhealthy," I said the SENTIMENT was.
> 
> As far as "belittling" someone, that is completely in the eye of the beholder. Critique, criticism, belittling...all points on a spectrum. I could have flown right out of the gate and just said, "you pompous, holier-than-thou no-good piece of ****," THAT is belittling. Calling OP out to not hide behind karma was step 1. By the time we got to step "smug," where she winked and assured me that everyone "gets theirs" eventually in some life, I didn't care much for her feelings, I admit. And, FWIW, I have seen more than my fair share of this exact sentiment from a "believer," where they essentially use their faith in some form of supernatural being/force to condemn someone. Whether it's "karma," or "judgment day" or whatever, the idea is the same: someone else is below me, and I can't wait until they suffer because of it. And I think that's ****ty.


The OP said what she felt. ? You don't like it? Say you're sorry she feels that way, suggest it might be unhealthy, if you must. Beyond that is the low road. You may say you're not judging her, but you sure flung a bunch of unflattering and belittling adjectives while addressing her stance.

The whole, "I know better" "you have no right" attitude could easily be a reminder of a similar attitude displayed by the woman that felt entitled to play adulteress with her husband.


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## bartendersfriend (Oct 14, 2013)

I think some on here are being a little hard on the OP.

My wife's AP, my former best friend for the vast majority of my life, was apparently diagnosed with cancer about 9 months after DDay and no contact. There are all kinds of emotions in my case. I have been sad for his family, at times indifferent to the situation, felt like I needed to pray for him, and even been angry at both him & my wife I can't "be there" for him.

I mean, I have even found myself thinking he's lucky for all the sympathy and attention he is getting... while I have spent so much time suffering in silence for their actions. I've spent a year in therapy and just tried to survive.

I'm just saying... things like this bring up all kinds of emotions. And, they change from day to day. The OP may feel like she does today and very different about it tomorrow. I don't think that makes her a bad person... just human.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

bartendersfriend said:


> I think some on here are being a little hard on the OP.
> 
> My wife's AP, my former best friend for the vast majority of my life, was apparently diagnosed with cancer about 9 months after DDay and no contact. There are all kinds of emotions in my case. I have been sad for his family, at times indifferent to the situation, felt like I needed to pray for him, and even been angry at both him & my wife I can't "be there" for him.
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree::smthumbup: Yes, it may have been 5 years, but there is no statute of limitations on healing from an A. It is a constant roller coaster and triggers (such as the discovery of new information that dredges up bad memories of the A) will have this sort o reaction.


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## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

To changedbeliefs - Could it be that your view of karma has changed since you became an atheist (thread link below)? While I do think you're being harsh on the OP (especially since you were a WS), I also don't want everyone jumping on you if this is a simple misunderstanding of beliefs.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/politics-religion/199826-i-just-dont-think-i-believe-any-longer.html

Beliefs and faith do have an impact on how people perceive different situations. What you think is mean might be simply be seen cosmic retribution as others.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

yeah_right said:


> To changedbeliefs - Could it be that your view of karma has changed since you became an atheist (thread link below)? While I do think you're being harsh on the OP (especially since you were a WS), I also don't want everyone jumping on you if this is a simple misunderstanding of beliefs.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/politics-religion/199826-i-just-dont-think-i-believe-any-longer.html
> 
> Beliefs and faith do have an impact on how people perceive different situations. What you think is mean might be simply be seen cosmic retribution as others.


I think it's more likely those views changed when he became a WS himself. It's much more difficult to understand our views on karma (or whatever you wish to call it) when he hasn't been on the receiving end of the betrayal that he himself has dished out to another.


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## OpenEnded (Jul 30, 2012)

C'mon ladies and gentlemen. It's a lot simpler. No need for deep philosophy and theology. 

At the end of the story the bad guy(villain) dies. The good guy lives. We all feel great and everything is normal. 
Right?


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## love=pain (Nov 26, 2012)

changedbeliefs said:


> You're using "karma" to excuse the fact that you're taking pleasure in the suffering of another human being. That person has an entire life they lived, and likely very many family members and friends who are going to be deeply saddened and heartbroken should she succumb to the disease. And you're sitting here, reflecting on one sliver of her life, saying, "good." I think that's deplorable.



You know for anyone here to stand in judgement of another's feelings on this site is what is deplorable

Infidelity is and can be a traumatic life changing event, with many here stating 3 to 5 years is an average amount of time to overcome it.

Have you ever had someone close to you die tragically? I have and a dozen years later I still have moments of heartbreak over it.
Infidelity in a marriage can be like a tragic death, some get past the hurt better, faster than others some never do, we are all different.

I for one will revel in any misfortune that should befall anyone my wife was involved with call it karma, life anything you want people who do bad things to other's for no other reason but their own pleasure get what they deserve and I will celebrate their pain. Call me bitter, deplorable whatever you want that is how I feel and I won't apologize for it.

In regards to bad karma happening to my wife I certainly won't celebrate anything that would happen to her even though she is equally to blame(as the OM) if not more for all of this. She has said she would deserve that bad karma should it happen to her, as would I if I did something so heinous.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

Karma=life....life=hard


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

yeah_right said:


> To changedbeliefs - Could it be that your view of karma has changed *since you became an atheist *(thread link below)? While I do think you're being harsh on the OP (especially since you were a WS), I also don't want everyone jumping on you if this is a simple misunderstanding of beliefs.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/politics-religion/199826-i-just-dont-think-i-believe-any-longer.html
> 
> Beliefs and faith do have an impact on how people perceive different situations. What you think is mean might be simply be seen cosmic retribution as others.


...I don't believe in atheism. 

If you're old enough to know where that quote came from, you win an IV bottle with absolute vodka in it.


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