# Question to those wiht temper....



## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

I am trying to save my marriage of eighteen years. My issues are all around lack of respect, anger, tantrums, bullying coming from my husband. Not all the time - there are times he is the best husband in the world. Until there is stressful situation. Or even not.

I know that there are people here admitting to be like this in the past, or still, who are trying to work on it. I would like to get some insight from you, without accusations and judgement. I am just feeling hopeless right now and trying to understand more. 

Why do you yell at your spouse? Why would you think it is acceptable? How do you feel afterwards? Does this relieve your tension? Do you worry about hurting your spouse? Is hurting your spouse the purpose? Do you own it later, or do you tell your spouse that she/he is too sensitive?

If you changed this and started controlling your emotions more - what was the reason? What made you change?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Wanda, sometimes, deep down, people are just angry a$$holes. I left my angry first husband back in 1999, and he is exactly the same way today. He is stubborn...stuck in his ways...fights change.... cannot take an ounce of criticism, no matter how kind or constructive...gets mad at nothing. He thinks he is fine as he is, so there is no incentive to change. If your H sees nothing wrong with his behavior and treatment of others, there will be no change. I will be interested to see responses you get here. 

Oh and Im so flattered you have me quoted in your sig!


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

That quote really helped me back then Things did improve dramatically for me, but once in a while things just pop up out of nowhere, and it sets me back in my good will to work on it. So I am trying to understand the force behind it. 

I also think I might be growing into your signature quote now....


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## Birdie_Atx (Apr 20, 2015)

WandaJ- empathize with you. People handle stress and anger in different ways- I tend to shut things out or am persistent until it gets worse (not better) and my husband has trouble lashing out with words. 
It's such a hard emotional battle, there are those times you ask if it is even worth speaking and let things roll over, or become a verbal punching bag and try to block things out. My fear is that I've built up so much to become resistant to the angry words and insults that I'm almost immune to anything else my husband does- good or bad. It's like I'm walking around in a bubble because opening up usually means getting hurt. This isn't any way to hold a relationship, and those that do have some insight or experiences to help those move forward, or even how to approach someone who is so trigger happy with anger to bring it into an open, and judgement-free manner is something I would love to read and learn about also.


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## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

3Xnocharm said:


> he is exactly the same way today. He is stubborn...stuck in his ways...fights change.... cannot take an ounce of criticism, no matter how kind or constructive...gets mad at nothing.


You post hit home for me and I closed them comp and talked to my wife about it for 15 minutes.

Does this describe your husband, Wanda? Tell us more about him please. What do you think makes him go off? 

I was that angry person, but the only things I can relate to above is stubbornness and getting "mad" at nothing. I don't mind constructive criticism, I like change and am definitely not stuck in my ways. 

It's hard to describe, but it's not really being mad at anyone or any situation, it's more like just blowing off steam. At least it was in my case, I THINK. :scratchhead:


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Sometimes anger is natural, sometimes it's acting, sometimes it's acting out.

All three have their uses.

Just a few minutes ago my wife asked me to wash the dishes after dinner. No problem, put some tunes on the iPhone and rinse away.

However she tends to have a wee bit of attitude towards the timing. Her idea is like NOW. Mine is sometime tonight. In her pursuit of NOW she will sit there and complain that I am not helping etcetera. In other words complain longer than it takes to do the dishes.

So today she began her routine of growling about NOW. I'm a peaceful and zen like guy but there are times where method acting is called for.

So I responded with a few choice words and explained in no uncertain terms that the universe does not revolve around her and her dishes.

If she's half as smart as I think she is then she should understand the purpose of my choice words. 

However, some people are what they are. She's impatient - having life handed to you on a silver platter will do that to you. 

So, try to decipher if he's acting, acting out, or that's who he is.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening WandaJ
I'm sorry you are in this spot. (I just wrote a long post, hit a key and wiped it out - more on that later).

I am sometimes subject to irrational rage. I literally see red - like a "red haze" over my vision. I want to shout, curse etc. What is strange though is that for me, just as the irrational rage rises, some sort of "safety mechanism" cuts in and stops it. its an automatic response. 

So when I deleted my post, I *really* wanted to hurl my laptop across the room - then the safety kicked in, and I started writing again.

I don't know how this safety works. I came from a family with a history of mental illness, so I'm very sensitive to irrational behaviors / thoughts. As a child I grew up admiring Spock, the guy from Kung-Fu, etc: people who had complete control of their emotions. Maybe I practiced emotional control so much as a child that is is now an automatic reaction? 

I've only lost my temper with my wife once - we were both exhausted (jet lag) and shouted at each other. I still feel very badly about it several years later.

If your husband's rage is irrational, then he can probably learn to control it, but it needs to be critically important to him. He needs to feel (as I do) that loosing control of your emotions in front of people is as humiliating as loosing control of your bladder.

OTOH, if his anger is rational, an attempt to control you, then it will not go away, and you should leave. 


All that aside, does he still make you happy when he is not angry? Do you smile when you see him? Is there good in the marriage that is worth the effort it will take to save it?

I know you are in a really difficult spot, with a really difficult decision to make. Its easy for others to say "leave" but I understand just how complex the issues are with a long term marriage.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

It's a natural reaction. We can't control it. It's awful. We know it's awful. But we think that once it's blown over, everyone forgives and forgets. We don't understand that you live in fear of us all of the other times. You hate us and we are thinking "how great is this marriage". 

We get it once we realized you checked out or give us the ILYBINILWY speech. By then it's usually too late.

It was for me.


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## skype (Sep 25, 2013)

MachoMcCoy said:


> It's a natural reaction. We can't control it.


But are you able to control it in certain situations? Like at work? I'll bet you do not explode at your boss the way that you do at your wife and children.

Macho, I am also curious about how you were able to change once you realized what you had done to your wife. How were you able to control it once you realized that you destroyed her love for you?


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Really the only time I have escalated to yelling was when I wasn't being heard or hurt. The only times I have ever used put downs or insults was in defense of being hurt myself. For example when I found out about a partner cheating and I called her, ok yelled, she was a vile ****.

As part of ongoing daily communication this isn't the way I operate at all. My GF and I have been together two years. Never really argue. I have never raised my voice to her, I have never yelled at her. We discuss things as adults. Was the same with my x up until I found out about the cheating. 

So I think for some people it's lashing out in pain and or fear .....in others it's just thier communication style. They argue, yell, over act, dramatize every or many situations. I couldn't be with a person like that.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

skype said:


> But are you able to control it in certain situations? Like at work? I'll bet you do not explode at your boss the way that you do at your wife and children.


Let me modify the "can't control it". Comment. You are correct, I can in some circumstances. I would not scream at anyone outside of my immediate family. I don't know why that is. 

I also was able to control it a lot better in my personal space, but it still crops up. I haven't eliminated it.Hence my wife will never love me again. 





skype said:


> Macho, I am also curious about how you were able to change once you realized what you had done to your wife. How were you able to control it once you realized that you destroyed her love for you?



Changing was quite simple, actually. I didn't have to do any work. 

You see, I came here originally, many years ago, because something was off in our marriage and I wanted to fix it. I kept reading about situations that seemed close, but not quite me. So I kept on keepin' on.

Finally, one day I got frustrated not knowing what was going on in her head, so I badgered her for some answers. Nothing made sense. Then she uttered 5 words that changed my life forever. 5 words that made all of those separate loose pieces come together in one crystal clear nightmare. 

Not important what they were (it would take a whole story to explain their meaning). But I realized a few things IMMEDIATELY:

1 - My wife does not love me.
2 - She hasn't for a long time.
3 - She'll never come back.
4 - And it's my fault. I did this. I knew I was doing it but didn't stop. 

The realization of what I had done crushed me instantly. My future changed. My present changed. Ever have your past change? A similar reaction in a change for the good must be euphoric. I know, because I lived through the opposite. My past is not what I thought it was. Hadn't been for years.

I call it my kick in the gut moment. How could I treat someone that way? She was my life and I drove her away. She lost a husband. She lost a happy family. She lost everything I lost but she couldn't help it. I could have but didn't. NO WAY was I going to allow myself to be that kind of a person. That could do that to someone I love.

My DNA changed on the spot. I didn't have to do a thing.


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## skype (Sep 25, 2013)

My husband has a temper, but he does not display it against me or our children. If he did, our marriage would not have lasted because I will not tolerate emotional abuse. Perhaps he recognized this, and so is able to control his outbursts around me.

He is horrid toward customer service people over the phone. I keep reminding him that if he wants their help, he should not belittle them or assume that they are incompetent.

In his case, his temper is rooted in impatience, fear of a lack of control, and in genetics. His mother and grandmother also had emotional outbursts of rage at the small irritations of everyday life. I was a bit concerned that our children would inherit this trait, but fortunately they did not.

He can also control his anger at work, so I do wonder why ragers feel comfortable letting loose around their family. I suspect they believe that their wife and children have to put up with them at their worst, that they will not or cannot leave them.

The only good thing about my husband's anger is that once he releases the emotion, he moves on immediately. Unlike me, he does not hold grudges or nurse hostile feelings. I am slow to anger, but once I am there, it takes a long time to dissipate.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Thank you everybody for input. To shortly describe my situation: my marriage was a living hell for the last couple of years, with f...k you" and yelling, etc. Things were really bad, the names he called me were more than bad. I came to TAM desperate, my thread for those interested is here:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/considering-divorce-separation/217993-no-affection-left-reversible.html

Back in December, sponatenously I said the D word - in the middle of his yelling at me again for something completely insignificant. That brought things to stop. He did changed, it is much better. The name calling ended (wiht one exception which I put in my other thread few weeks ago). 
The name calling and yelling stopped, for most part. However, there is still this impatience, mocking, aggression in tone when things are not going his way . He is too impatient with children and gets too sharp with them (they just 7 and 10) for nothing. Outside of those moment he is good father. 

Three of the six of love busters are still there: selfish demands, disrespectful judgements, angry outbursts (somewhat limited now). He would criticize me for something meaningless, and there is no other reason behind it just to hurt me, on purpose and without reason. And this is where I am today. We had pretty good stretch last few month, and now last few days the distance is growing. Why? because he just cannot keep his mouth shut and obstain from criticizing me for no reason (like How I cannot know that Netflix does not have Oscar category movies anymore? Everybody knows it! This was said with contempt and just one day after we had converstation about another incident, and he finally after three days admitted that it was not neccessary. And boom again. It seems so insignificant when you describe, but it just erased all my hopes that this might work long term. 

so, to answer John's question - I think this is who he is. He has it in him, and controlling it is not convenient for him, he feels like he is suffocating when he cannot just lash out. And this brings me to sad realization that this will never disappear. We will have better and worse days, but I will alsway wait for another outburst, impatientce, criticism.

Richard - no, I do not think I love him anymore. I like it better when he is not around. I am more relaxed. I thougth for a while couple months ago, that maybe the feelings came back, but they are going downhill again. Our children are young, and we have business together. My goal now is to set our business in such way, that it could work easily without me, while I would go work for someone else doing the same thing. But on my own. Because I need to have this option. 

MachoMcMoy - thank you for writing and openning up like this. I really appreciate it. I am your wife. Your post made me cry.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Have you talked to a divorce lawyer? Will you be okay financially if you two divorce?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

3Xnocharm said:


> Wanda, sometimes, deep down, people are just angry a$$holes.


:rofl:

Oh dear. I do love this quote.



jld said:


> Will you be okay financially if you two divorce?


What I've learned in my life is that people will always end up ok in the end. Don't ever let something like $ keep you from leaving a situation where you're being bullied or dealing with someone who is a constant cloud of negativity or abuse or just plain disrespect 24/7. All the riches in the world don't stack up to peaceful living.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

No I haven't. Since I am managing house and business finances I know exactly where we are. Of course we would manage, although everybody would have to scale down, luckily there is room to go down. I do love my neighgborhood, it is very family and kids friendly, and nature focused. We could not keep two houses here. At this point I still cannot imagine that my children might go to bed wihtout hugs and kisses from their dad. It just sucks.


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## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

Wanda,

This link may be of interest to you.

Signs and Symptoms of Anger-Related Issues – Causes and Effects


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening WandaJ
Sadly this sound like "intentional" anger. Its not that he has irrational outbursts that he can't control. He just gets angry and insulting over trivial things (like Netflix).

I really don't see a fix for this. I know how incredibly difficult it is to leave, but I think you would be much happier with someone else. Is there anything that makes the marriage worth saving?


I know I complain about problems in my marriage (mostly lack of sex) but there are really good things too. There is real love and affection. We laugh together, enjoy being together. We are happy with each other. The sex issues are big, but there is so much else that is good. 

That is different from a situation where there really isn't any good left in the relationship.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

T&T said:


> Wanda,
> 
> This link may be of interest to you.
> 
> Signs and Symptoms of Anger-Related Issues – Causes and Effects


Thank you T&T, this is helpful.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening WandaJ
> Sadly this sound like "intentional" anger. Its not that he has irrational outbursts that he can't control. He just gets angry and insulting over trivial things (like Netflix).
> 
> I really don't see a fix for this. I know how incredibly difficult it is to leave, but I think you would be much happier with someone else. Is there anything that makes the marriage worth saving?
> ...


And you are probably right, Richard. What makes is harder is that there are times when things are great, enjoyable, but it is always, sooner or later, followed by the crush. So at this point it is hard to enjoy even if it's good. 

It was going relatively well last few months, but now I feel like a baloon loosing air. We went for three days trip for Easter, and that's when things started going downhill. They always go when we are together too much. It is much easier when we are away from each other all day long working.

it's kids, Richard that still keeps me here. I have detached last year, and thought that he can not hurt me again. And then I let my guards down, hoped it can get better and now I feel spiraling down again. I cannot even sign up for counseling, because he chooses to work long hours, so I am basically working single mother during weekdays.


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## Fitnessfan (Nov 18, 2014)

WandaJ said:


> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/considering-divorce-separation/217993-no-affection-left-reversible.html
> 
> *I do not think I love him anymore. I like it better when he is not around. I am more relaxed. *I thougth for a while couple months ago, that maybe the feelings came back, but they are going downhill again.


Wanda this is very telling. You are at a point where you truly prefer it when he isn't home and when you're not together. Time to make that permanent. THis is your life too Wanda. You don't HAVE to stay. You're children will get through this, perhaps turn out better without the volatility of him. You only have one life and you only get to live it once. Go find that peace and happiness. Unfortunately, I don't think you will ever get it with him. Hugs to you.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Permanent change is very hard. Temporary change is obviously much easier. The spouse sees the temporary change and convinces himself/herself the change is permanent and then is hurt all over again when it turns out it isn't. It takes a long time to be sure the temporary change has a chance of being permanent. 

Your husband has tried and will probably try again but whether he really can change temporary behavior into permanent behavior is difficult to say. In the meantime, your children are observing his behavior and learning that's how a man acts.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Wanda: My first W is unquestionably bi-polar and cannot seem to handle the least bit of stress. She left the primary task of the raising of our sons all to me, the bulk of the housework to me, et. al. all while she was a systems analyst for a major utilities company, finding time to get her ashes hauled there by a corporate VP 30 years her senior who gave her a rather large promotion.

To this very day, she will call me to gritch and complain and tell me just how pissy life has been to her. Anytime that she feels frisky enough to start in on reading me the Riot Act, reminding me of my many shortcomings, I just cut her off midstream with a suitable line like, "Darlin': Stop the truck right there! You gave up your inalienable right to hop on my ass the very instant that you signed that divorce decree! Here's a quarter ~ go call somebody who gives a crap!"


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening WandaJ
Kids make it really difficult. I know people may say that the kids would be better off without him, but I also know that the real world isn't that simple.

I can only offer sympathy. There are no good answers.



WandaJ said:


> snip
> it's kids, Richard that still keeps me here. I have detached last year, and thought that he can not hurt me again. And then I let my guards down, hoped it can get better and now I feel spiraling down again. I cannot even sign up for counseling, because he chooses to work long hours, so I am basically working single mother during weekdays.


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

WandaJ said:


> Why do you yell at your spouse? Why would you think it is acceptable? How do you feel afterwards? Does this relieve your tension? Do you worry about hurting your spouse? Is hurting your spouse the purpose?


The answer to all your questions is simple "they do it because they can get away with it”. They can control themselves, they simply choose not to when in the presence of their loved ones, maddening isn't it? Have you read the book “Why Does He Do That? : Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men” by Lundy Bancroft? IMO, the book also applies to “angry women” however the author’s experience is only with men.

Some will advise to set boundaries and consequences and then enforce them when your husband violates them with his behavior. That is good advice, but I will tell you that in my case all it did was cause my husband to escalate his behavior.

Other than that, all I can offer is understanding and validation of your experience, what you are feeling is completely normal for a person being treated in this manner. I liken it to psychological torture; at least the effects are the same. I will tell you that I left my marriage 9 months ago and I am so glad that I did. I finally have peace; for me it took about 2 months for the mental darkness to lift but now my life is full of light and new possibilities.


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

MachoMcCoy said:


> I call it my kick in the gut moment. How could I treat someone that way? *She was my life and I drove her away. She lost a husband. She lost a happy family. She lost everything I lost but she couldn't help it. I could have but didn't. * NO WAY was I going to allow myself to be that kind of a person. That could do that to someone I love.


Then you truly understand and have learned from your experience; now you need to forgive yourself and move on to a better future. Thank you for writing this as it helps me to know that at least one person understands my (WandaJ, Mrs. MachoM) experience, even though that person is not and will never be my STBX husband. 

My husband took my hopes and dreams for love and partnership away slowly, he chipped away at them one contemptuous comment and one angry outburst at a time. Am I a victim? No, of course not, it was partially my fault because it took me too many years to realize what was happening and because I was on a maddening merry-go-round of hope and despair. A combination of bad luck and ignorance, I suppose.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Red Sonja said:


> Some will advise to set boundaries and consequences and then enforce them when your husband violates them with his behavior. That is good advice, but I will tell you that in my case all it did was cause my husband to escalate his behavior.
> 
> Other than that, all I can offer is understanding and validation of your experience, what you are feeling is completely normal for a person being treated in this manner. I liken it to psychological torture; at least the effects are the same. I will tell you that I left my marriage 9 months ago and I am so glad that I did. I finally have peace; for me it took about 2 months for the mental darkness to lift but now my life is full of light and new possibilities.


this is true sonya, trying to set boundaries and consequences usually escalated anger further. But I do keep saying that if TAM was around twenty years ago, I might have been in a different place now. 

I am happy for you that you managed to leave for better, calmer life. do you have kids together? 
I've heard about that book but haven't read it yet, I think it is time to reach for it.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Openminded said:


> Permanent change is very hard. Temporary change is obviously much easier. The spouse sees the temporary change and convinces himself/herself the change is permanent and then is hurt all over again when it turns out it isn't. It takes a long time to be sure the temporary change has a chance of being permanent.
> 
> Your husband has tried and will probably try again but whether he really can change temporary behavior into permanent behavior is difficult to say. In the meantime, your children are observing his behavior and learning that's how a man acts.


Openminded, this is true. It will take tremendous work and goodwill (if any left) to continue improving this. After divorce talk we had few rocky weeks before we found balance. And for around 2-3 weeks things were bliss - I mean like never before, calm, respectful. I thought that maybe we had clean break and started relationship on a different level, much more mature. I was ready to fall back in love wiht him. But I believe for him this was too calm, he could not sustain it.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Birdie_Atx said:


> WandaJ- empathize with you. People handle stress and anger in different ways- I tend to shut things out or am persistent until it gets worse (not better) and my husband has trouble lashing out with words.
> It's such a hard emotional battle, there are those times you ask if it is even worth speaking and let things roll over, or become a verbal punching bag and try to block things out. My fear is that I've built up so much to become resistant to the angry words and insults that I'm almost immune to anything else my husband does- good or bad. It's like I'm walking around in a bubble because opening up usually means getting hurt. This isn't any way to hold a relationship, and those that do have some insight or experiences to help those move forward, or even how to approach someone who is so trigger happy with anger to bring it into an open, and judgement-free manner is something I would love to read and learn about also.


Birdie, I feel for you. Odds are you won't be able to change it, although Blossom Heigh has success in her marriage. I spent a lot of time on TAM, read Five Love Languages, read Love Busters. Have you read Love Busters? - The three out of six are probably in your marriage. I have asked my husband to read those two books, that has been three months ago. Nothing so far. 
I have printed Love Busters questionnaires. We will see if I get enough courage to give this to him.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

MachoMcCoy said:


> My DNA changed on the spot. I didn't have to do a thing.


I have a friend - female friend, who admitted just lately to me, that she used to be very selfish and demanding in her marriage. Would raise her voice at him, and simply wanted things go her way when she wanted. 

Now, divorced, and in the new relationship, she says this kind of behavior just doesn't even cross her mind. She knows she cannot do it. 

I have a sad feeling that the same may happen to my husband. That the dynamics of our relationship is just too set in its ways, but if we go and meet other people, we will be completetly differrent people in those new relationships. Learning from our own experiences.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

WandaJ said:


> I am trying to save my marriage of eighteen years. My issues are all around lack of respect, anger, tantrums, bullying coming from my husband. Not all the time - there are times he is the best husband in the world. Until there is stressful situation. Or even not.
> 
> I know that there are people here admitting to be like this in the past, or still, who are trying to work on it. I would like to get some insight from you, without accusations and judgement. I am just feeling hopeless right now and trying to understand more.
> 
> ...


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening WandaJ
I think some people's approach to marriage is to see what they can get out of it. This can lead to misery to a partner who is actually in love and is trying to see what they can put into the marriage.

I wonder if different people use the word "love" to mean entirely different things. Then when someone who is trying to do all they can for their partner marries someone who is trying to get all they can from their partner, you end up with a terrible imbalance.

By my definition of love, getting angry at your partner we be extremely rare. You are not tying to control them, but to make them happy. Anger would be a sign that things had gone horribly wrong. 





WandaJ said:


> I have a friend - female friend, who admitted just lately to me, that she used to be very selfish and demanding in her marriage. Would raise her voice at him, and simply wanted things go her way when she wanted.
> 
> Now, divorced, and in the new relationship, she says this kind of behavior just doesn't even cross her mind. She knows she cannot do it.
> 
> I have a sad feeling that the same may happen to my husband. That the dynamics of our relationship is just too set in its ways, but if we go and meet other people, we will be completetly differrent people in those new relationships. Learning from our own experiences.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Thanks pidge. We are all prone to repeat what we have learnt at home. some of us will learn later, some never. I have to say my FIL was SOB. my husband is improved version. I guess not enough.


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## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

While I never called my wife names, I sure was an angry, *****y, quick tempered person to live with.

That all stopped the day we had "the talk" She told me what she needed from me and I did the same. That was a few years back. 

The top two things she wanted from me was to stop all the angry outbursts and non sexual affection. It wasn't that difficult to change. I asked her every time she even saw the slightest escalation to take my hand and say "deep breaths" Surprisingly, it didn't take that long to break the habit and WOW does it feel good to let all that anger go!!

Where it came from in the first place? I don't know...:scratchhead:


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Either he has resentment towards you, or he redirects his anger at you because it is safe to do so. His anger, or aggression could be part genetics, and nurture. nurture has a way in helping how our genetics is expressed as well.

It may take a lot more effort on his part to control that anger. But it seems like he is falling back into old behavior, because he is not motivated enough to continue with the new, healthier one. He feels safer to go back to the older version, or some form of it.

If he only shows this behavior around people he feels safe, then he knows he is able to get more away with it around those he feels safe to exhibit this behavior towards.

Face it, he has less consequences when he treats you and the children in a less stellar manner. The more you put up with it, the more he feels like it is okay to behave in this manner until one day, you will simply walk away and he will have no clue because you have put up with it for this long.

Since nurture plays a big role on how we turn out as adults, financial strains may make things more complicated, but there is a higher probability of having healthy adult children in the future as well.

Plus, I know that there is a guilt factor when it comes to be the one who files or separates. Really, it should be viewed in a different way, the condition of the relationship is no longer viable, and it would be healthier for everyone if the marriage is dissolved. He has a major hand in creating that condition, and he is selfish enough not to be the one to let you and the children go. He is the one causing a lot of distress, but he is not doing the right thing in changing the environment or freeing you from it, so it ends up in your hands to have the courage to do what is necessary, because he cannot. It will take courage to effect change as you well know, and if you do leave, you should view it as protecting yourself and your children.

Who knows, if you and the children stay away long enough, it may motivate him to change to get back what is lost. This time though, watch him over a longer period of time.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

Carolyn Hax: After a boyfriend’s latest rage on the eve of a wedding, time to move on - The Washington Post


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

MachoMcCoy said:


> Carolyn Hax: After a boyfriendâ€™s latest rage on the eve of a wedding, time to move on - The Washington Post


Thank you Macho. This paragraph is pretty good:

"This is what isolation looks like from the inside. You see it as your choice, to be pragmatic and avoid things that upset him, but it’s actually he who is in control, using his temper to keep you in line. Your assurance that it’s just an eye-roll to you now? You’re gaslighting yourself."


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Mr.Fisty said:


> Either he has resentment towards you, or he redirects his anger at you because it is safe to do so. His anger, or aggression could be part genetics, and nurture. nurture has a way in helping how our genetics is expressed as well.
> 
> It may take a lot more effort on his part to control that anger. But it seems like he is falling back into old behavior, because he is not motivated enough to continue with the new, healthier one. He feels safer to go back to the older version, or some form of it.
> 
> ...


this is pretty good analysis, Mr. Fisty. I am sure there are resentments on his side too, this was not peachy marriage. Some of them legitimate, some of them coming from me trying to stand up for myself.

He is trying. Things are way better than just back in December. It just every time there is hicup, it seems that I am moving away more. Then things are getting better again, and it seems like this could be pretty good marriage if we just keep trying. 

I to think in his case this is in his genes. Plus crappy childhood, high ego, high intelligence, and it is a volcano. He does show sometimes not pleasant behavior around other people - maybe not yelling (although it happened with the members of his family, his sisters), when he thinks someone did or said something stupid. Which worries me about potential employee turn over, once I move part of my responsibilities to someone else.

I have lately started wondering about the way sex life affects my situation. Becuase it is now good, and getting better, after twenty years. Is this helping us to get on the rigth track, or is it clouding the whole things and creates an illusion of intimacy, and just extends the helpless situation?


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Boundaries. We all need them. We all want them. But we don't know how to word/enforce them. At least, that was my case until I discovered boundaries were for ME not HIM.

Wrong boundary-setting: "If you get drunk/yell at me/don't tell me where you are going one more time, I'm going to leave."

That's fine. But I had to follow through on my threat. I did not. Plus I was telling him what I wanted/needed HIM to do. Doesn't work that way.

Correct boundary-setting: "I will not tolerate drunkenness, angry outbursts, or abusive behavior from anyone any longer. I deserve better than that. I will leave for x-hours/x-days/permanently if this type of behavior occurs again."

I hope that makes some sense. On the one hand, I was telling my husband how to act; on the other hand, I was telling him what I would not tolerate. How he wished to act was his choice.

I was married to a ranting/raging maniac. I mean a real narcissist lunatic. To him, anger equaled control, strength, and power. 

I walked out on both husbands. Both are dead. And I'm still alive and kickin'. I'm also happy with my life. Granted, I live a downscaled lifestyle.

But I own my life. I love my privacy. And it was worth it to give up the large houses, big cars, and vacations.

I can't describe the happiness I have by living my own life on my own terms. Dang, it's good!


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

good for you Prodigy. 

I am not giving up yet. Things are improved, and they do seem go, generally, in the right directions. kids are young. Most likely Mr. Fisty is right, that is all simply going to take longer than should.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

WandaJ said:


> this is pretty good analysis, Mr. Fisty. I am sure there are resentments on his side too, this was not peachy marriage. Some of them legitimate, some of them coming from me trying to stand up for myself.


You mentioned in a thread several months ago that you had a sexual affair with another man. At the time you wrote the post, the affair was still ongoing and you were planning to meet with the other man in a few months time. Is your husband aware of the infidelity? The reason I ask is that your threads focus so much on what he hasn't done. and granted he has a lot to answer for, but you have this enormous marriage damaging secret that you're withholding from him as well. Some here would argue what you've done is far worse than anything he has done.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

A good sex life could make the small issues nothing, but he has an underlying issue. The sex life is only masking his issues because he really never worked to resolved them. If there is ever a lull in the relationship, those feel good hormones would go away, and his old self will resurface.

You remember reading about relationships during the honeymoon phase, and how it masked a lot of issues because hormones make the couple fulfill each others need. People act differently, and their true base self does not surface as much.

If a lull ever comes around, you want a mentally healthy person to work with you. Just having sex will only push his issues down the line.

Lets say you have hormonal issues, and for a long period of time, sex is not a viable option. He is not getting that c0cktail of feel good hormones, there is now more sexual tension, past behavior and habits will resurface. They never went away, it is just the environment did not give it a chance to allow those issues to show themselves.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Mr.Fisty said:


> A good sex life could make the small issues nothing, but he has an underlying issue. The sex life is only masking his issues because he really never worked to resolved them. If there is ever a lull in the relationship, those feel good hormones would go away, and his old self will resurface.
> 
> You remember reading about relationships during the honeymoon phase, and how it masked a lot of issues because hormones make the couple fulfill each others need. People act differently, and their true base self does not surface as much.
> 
> ...


I think there is a lot of truth to it. When I try to think about times when we were emotionally close, this was at the very beggining, but soon after I had to start filter what I said, which slowly started degrading the situation. I do think that being too close emotionally might not be what he can do - he craves it, but will push away, when it gets too close.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Coffee Amore said:


> You mentioned in a thread several months ago that you had a sexual affair with another man. At the time you wrote the post, the affair was still ongoing and you were planning to meet with the other man in a few months time. Is your husband aware of the infidelity? The reason I ask is that your threads focus so much on what he hasn't done. and granted he has a lot to answer for, but you have this enormous marriage damaging secret that you're withholding from him as well. Some here would argue what you've done is far worse than anything he has done.


Coffee Amore, that long done and over, and I did say that in my main thread. 
And I do repeat that he is trying, that's why I am not ready to give up yet. It's just hard to overcome twenty years of resentments. We would have much better chance if I shook our world years ago.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

WandaJ said:


> Coffee Amore, that long done and over, and I did say that in my main thread.
> And I do repeat that he is trying, that's why I am not ready to give up yet. It's just hard to overcome twenty years of resentments. We would have much better chance if I shook our world years ago.


Why do you not tell him about it now?


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

jld said:


> Why do you not tell him about it now?


why would I do that jld?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

WandaJ said:


> why would I do that jld?


Because it is the honest thing to do? Because transparency builds trust? Because trust is essential for a healthy relationship?


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

WandaJ said:


> Why do you yell at your spouse? Why would you think it is acceptable? How do you feel afterwards? Does this relieve your tension? Do you worry about hurting your spouse? Is hurting your spouse the purpose? Do you own it later, or do you tell your spouse that she/he is too sensitive?
> 
> If you changed this and started controlling your emotions more - what was the reason? What made you change?


-I would yell at my spouse out of frustration, lack of understanding from her and stress.
-I never thought it was acceptable. My W pointed this out numerous times.
-I did not always feel bad afterwards. 
-At the time of the yelling I did not worry about hurting my spouse. Never occurred to me that it would.
-It was never the purpose to hurt my spouse. It was a poor way to communicate what I was going through(daily stresses)
-Yes, I would own it later.

I had to change and learn to control through anger management. It was this simple, W said get help or she is gone. I read the internet on controlling my anger. Basically anger management. There are classes offered and many things to read in helping to get one off the anger train. 

Since my understanding that what I was doing was very bad and hurting my spouse changes were made for the better. I used to have the knee jerk reaction. Now I take a few deep breathes and count to 10 letting it sink in. I force myself to remain calm. Over time I found that what I was yelling about was meaningless in the long run. The trivial crap. I learned not to sweat the crap that does not really matter. I have not raised my voice in quite sometime since I finally accepted I needed to manage my anger. 

The first step for you H is to realize he has to manage his anger because he has anger issues.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

jld said:


> Because it is the honest thing to do? Because transparency builds trust? Because trust is essential for a healthy relationship?


We are not in healthy relationship, jld. We are trying to glue together something that deeply broken.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

What resentment has been building for 20 years? The reason I ask is my W has had resentment over the years. It took time for me to wrap my head around it. Do what I can to make it right.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Yeswecan said:


> What resentment has been building for 20 years? The reason I ask is my W has had resentment over the years. It took time for me to wrap my head around it. Do what I can to make it right.


Resentments about anger, contempt, angry outburst - the three of the Love Busters; selfish demands, disrespectful judgements, angry outburst. This was my marriage. Or, if you prefer Gottman, The four horsemen of apocaypse: criticism, defensiveness, contempt, stonewalling. I participated in those too, had to learn how to operate. 

In general, this is high drama relationship. I am very low drama person, and this is really killing me. Had another drama moment due to some problesm in business. For me it is obstacle that we have to figure out how to get through. It is part of life. For him first it is end of the world first, and then obstacle to deal with it, once he calms down. His anger just sucks the energy out of me. It simply might be incompatibility here.

So , for few days things were peachy after awesome sex, now back to normal.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

WandaJ said:


> Resentments about anger, contempt, angry outburst - the three of the Love Busters; selfish demands, disrespectful judgements, angry outburst. This was my marriage. Or, if you prefer Gottman, The four horsemen of apocaypse: criticism, defensiveness, contempt, stonewalling. I participated in those too, had to learn how to operate.
> 
> In general, this is high drama relationship. I am very low drama person, and this is really killing me. Had another drama moment due to some problesm in business. For me it is obstacle that we have to figure out how to get through. It is part of life. For him first it is end of the world first, and then obstacle to deal with it, once he calms down. His anger just sucks the energy out of me. It simply might be incompatibility here.
> 
> So , for few days things were peachy after awesome sex, now back to normal.


I understand. My W had resentment for the years of verbal abuse, angry outbursts and name calling. I was darn crappy quite a few times. Keep in mind my W was not always peachy but she expressed herself without all the fanfare like I "did" in the past. One day I woke the hell up(after my W said get counseling or she was out) that I realized I was a person with anger issues. My anger was active all the time. Stop light too long. Pissed. Car cut me off. Pissed. Kids getting on the school bus taking their time. Pissed. Customers that are a pain. Pissed. 

After some self help(the internet is full of self help for anger issues) I worked on not making the knee jerk reaction. After many months I do not get angry. The key was realizing and accepting I needed help with my anger issues. I always felt justified in my anger. I was completely wrong about the justification. It is never justified. 

The other day my W text me that she hated our yard, the ticks, mud, dogs getting in the mud needing a bath(it is April. Rain happens!). She wished we never moved there. I simply text back, "I'm sorry you feel this way." Two days later she asked me why I text that. She thought I would start yelling. I said knee jerk reaction are no longer. Yelling back does not fix the yard, ticks, muddy dogs and stop the rain. It is the new me. 

Sometimes(one or twice a year) I fall off the wagon or begin to. I just remove myself from the room. Work in progress as it were.

Anyway, to be blunt, your H needs to take his head out of his arse and learn to talk with you like an adult. You are not his whipping post. 

His first step is admitting he has a problem. Next step is look up anger management on the net. He needs to work on himself. It will take time to make changes but at least show some effort. I shared many sites with my W and pointed out were it described me to a T. She recognized I was looking to make a positive change. I wanted to change for my W and my health. Anger wears on a person. 

Signs and Symptoms of Anger-Related Issues – Causes and Effects





> Out-of-control anger hurts your relationships with others. It causes lasting scars in the people you love most and gets in the way of your friendships and work relationships. Chronic, intense anger makes it hard for others to trust you, speak honestly, or feel comfortable—they never know what is going to set you off or what you will do. Explosive anger is especially damaging to children.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

WandaJ said:


> We are not in healthy relationship, jld. We are trying to glue together something that deeply broken.


So let me see if I get your reasoning right: Since you are not in a healthy relationship, it means you cheated on your husband but don't feel the need to tell him?

I don't want to misinterpret what you are saying, but how do you propose to glue this marriage together if it's based on a lie?

Do you think you will ever tell him about the affair? Even if the relationship improves, don't you think you will feel compelled to come clean and tell him the truth?

No criticism meant. I'm just curious.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I don't see any good in bringing up a long ago affair. You can't change what you did, only what you will do in the future. Marriage is not about keeping score - you do not "owe" someone in compensation for past sins, you should already each be doing everything you can to make the other happy.






Prodigal said:


> So let me see if I get your reasoning right: Since you are not in a healthy relationship, it means you cheated on your husband but don't feel the need to tell him?
> 
> I don't want to misinterpret what you are saying, but how do you propose to glue this marriage together if it's based on a lie?
> 
> ...


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## NotEasy (Apr 19, 2015)

richardsharpe said:


> I don't see any good in bringing up a long ago affair. You can't change what you did, only what you will do in the future. Marriage is not about keeping score - you do not "owe" someone in compensation for past sins, you should already each be doing everything you can to make the other happy.


Agreed, you don't "owe" them for past sins, but you "owe" the marriage your present and future effort. Which is sort of what Richard said. The kicker is, if asked, you "owe" honest answers and total effort towards reconciliation (or D). 

But this is going off topic.


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## mam665 (Oct 20, 2012)

Hi there. I've been married for 20 years and during the first half of our marraige my husband was like that. What made it better? Zoloft!!!!! He takes Zoloft now. Thank you God. He usef to fly off the handle out of the blue because of some totally innocent thing me or someone else would say or an innocent gesture, etc. Doors would slam. He'd stop through the house yelling. I was constantly on eggshells. Since he began taking Zoloft he's learned to control his temper. Unfortunately even though it's all in the past for him, it isn't for me. I have Complex PTSD. Even though he never laid a hand on me or called me bad names I find it extremely hard to be totally relaxed around him and am constantly measuring his mood without even realizing that I'm doing it. I'm hypervigilent and alert all the time. It's exhausting. So, these people with this temper issue cause real damage! My daughter has also been diagnosed with C-PTSD. She was 11 when we married. I am also having a very hard time trying to release anger and resentment I have because I'm constantly remembering incidents and have frequent nightmares. 
It is easy for people to say "leave him", and not so easy to do. Like you said about your husband, my husband has so many good qualities. I would suggest asking your husband to visit with a doctor about antidepressant medication. Be advised the best physician for this is a Psychiatrist, not because he's mentally ill but because they know these medications better than a family doctor does. Also be advised that one side effect can be erectile dysfuntction (Zoloft is especially bad for that-but I'd rather have a calm house than a sex life to be honest). There may be other SSRI's that are less apt to cause that though. That is what worked for us. My best advice is to not wait so long that you end up with C-PTSD like I have.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

mam665 said:


> Hi there. I've been married for 20 years and during the first half of our marraige my husband was like that. What made it better? Zoloft!!!!! He takes Zoloft now. Thank you God. He usef to fly off the handle out of the blue because of some totally innocent thing me or someone else would say or an innocent gesture, etc. Doors would slam. He'd stop through the house yelling. I was constantly on eggshells. Since he began taking Zoloft he's learned to control his temper. Unfortunately even though it's all in the past for him, it isn't for me. I have Complex PTSD. Even though he never laid a hand on me or called me bad names I find it extremely hard to be totally relaxed around him and am constantly measuring his mood without even realizing that I'm doing it. I'm hypervigilent and alert all the time. It's exhausting. So, these people with this temper issue cause real damage! My daughter has also been diagnosed with C-PTSD. She was 11 when we married. I am also having a very hard time trying to release anger and resentment I have because I'm constantly remembering incidents and have frequent nightmares.
> It is easy for people to say "leave him", and not so easy to do. Like you said about your husband, my husband has so many good qualities. I would suggest asking your husband to visit with a doctor about antidepressant medication. Be advised the best physician for this is a Psychiatrist, not because he's mentally ill but because they know these medications better than a family doctor does. Also be advised that one side effect can be erectile dysfuntction (Zoloft is especially bad for that-but I'd rather have a calm house than a sex life to be honest). There may be other SSRI's that are less apt to cause that though. That is what worked for us. My best advice is to not wait so long that you end up with C-PTSD like I have.


This is amazing that it worked so well for you. But I do understand completley that the walking on aggshells is still there. It always be. 

I do not think he would consider getting on medication. Maybe some anger management activities, but that still open. He thinks he succeded because he is in much more control over it that twnety years ago, when he would punch walls when angry, and yell at me in the middle of parking lot full of people. The qustion is is he really that much in control or is it me who have learned how to avoid full blown confrontation by withdrawing?


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