# Wife doesn't treat me well and wants kids.



## OverTheShoulder (May 1, 2013)

There is a long story behind this, but I will try and keep it as brief as possible.

My wife and I have been with each other for almost five years, married for three.

The first six months (During an internship) she was fun, gave motivation, but had a side that would send her into a depression of a sort. Like, "You don't love me." and a lot of her digging into my past relationships to make more of them than they really were. No matter what I would say, I was lying in her eyes. She got over it (For a while). I never pried into her past, even though I had heard things that may unsettle some. The past is the past.

She went back to school (I paid for her books and plane ticket to visit my home before she went to school), and we talked every night for hours. About halfway in the semester, she began to say she was getting busy with school. I understand, but a few days turned to a week. Then when we would meet up online she would ask things like, "I need someone who can take care of me.", and "I want someone who can treat me better." Obviously, I was crushed, and asking the question of what I did. But I couldn't give up. When I paid for her return to school, I also had booked a ticket for Christmas. It was on and off if she was coming. She came...and she stayed.

So she moved in with some family so we could stay close, and we both worked part time while we searched for better jobs. Both taking online classes to finish up our degrees. I paid for most meals, as she was extremely depressed for getting so little money for a job she felt to good for. She was also away from home. I never held it against her; I just wanted her to be happy. We spent everyone nonworking moment with each other.

Then we both get another internship, hers better than mine, but it didn't matter since it was at the same place. We arrive, and she began holding her job over mine. We lived in small shared apartments, but we lived only five minutes or less walking distance apart. She hated having roommates, and *told* me that we were going to move out and rent our own place off property. She told me I could join her or not, she didn't care. I tried to discuss the options, pros and cons, but she had made up her mind. I joined her. We rented a three bedroom townhouse, and got roommates and charged them so much we only needed to pay 100$ (I paid), and a portion of utilities (I paid).

We did save money, and I admitted it to her, I just felt guilty lying to friends.

I got a good paying part-time 3rd-shift job, only working 2-3 days a week, but better than what I was making, and comparable to her 5 day a week job. Prior to this job, we were never in our bedroom. Once I got the job, she began complaining that she wants to be in the room and watch TV, and she has to suffer downstairs. I went to sleep around 8pm to wake up at 1am. I say a good 50% of the time she would purposely slam doors and try and keep me awake, many times telling me that’s what she was doing. Making me suffer like her.

She began getting more bold with her insults, calling me a loser, that I had no friends, I should go suicide, poor, trashy, boring, *****, gay, stupid, no one likes you, immature, no future, a mistake, ect. I could go on forever.

I never retaliated. I would say sorry, I love you, talk to me. Sometimes she would pull her hair, band her head on the wall, curl up in the bathroom, and drive off for hours without a word. Sometimes she gets physical and starts slapping in throwing punches. All I can do is hold my hands up and block, making sure not to hold or push her. But, in her mind it’s me hurting her when I put my arm over my face to block her swing and hurts her arm. Threatens to call the cops. Once she was calm and I could talk to her, things would get better, and she would say she says the things because she loves me and wants me to be better. Every time.

We got married. It was rushed, overnight thing. Then she wanted a house. I was still working my part-time job, and she was at the time jobless (3 months). The apartment was good enough in our financial situation, but she was tired of living there. Again, tried to go through pros and cons, but she again told me that I could stay there, that she wouldn't. She said her parents would buy the house so we didn't have to pay interest. I told her I appreciated it, but I did not want to owe family, and have it held over my head. I lost the short-lived fight, and we moved into the house. I pay for utilities, HOA, and property tax. She pays for Car and House Insurance. Not balanced, but again, her parents bought the house, so I told her that she can save the money she doesn’t have to pay into an account to give her parents (I pay about 9-10k a year in the collective, her maybe 1k).

Shortly after moving in, I got fulltime at my 3rd-shift job with a raise. Good news for new homeowner. Not to her. Still a worthless loser job that she has to suffer. Told me I could sleep in another room or the couch when I had to work.

The insults persisted. Making me feel more and more depressed. Attacks, and I still felt I was doing something wrong, and took them all to heart.

Maybe a month later, I got a great job. Was she happy? I don't know, when I told her I got the job and how much I would be making, she gave a very bland good job that even other families were surprised at. After shoving how much she made in my face for years, to triple what she made it was evident to everyone that she was jealous and demoralized. Again, what was supposed to be happy ended up being not being that happy (At least for her). The insults still came, saying the amount I was making was nothing compared to other people (Directors, VP, CEO, ect.) I never bragged. I never tried to make myself sound superior to her.

Before, I said I wanted one when I was young, and it's still true. I very much want a kid. She said she didn't want one until she was 30. She saw other people having kids then wanted one, like it was just another thing. For about a month she would bring it up, saying other people are having them, she doesn’t want to be big in the summer, she wants her grandparents to see them, to start our lives. I respect her opinions, but I told her that we must not make a decision based off of what others want or are doing.

Finally, I told her that I want to make sure that WE were stable. That I want to make sure our child grows up in a home free of insult. Where there parents don't scream daily (I don't scream, it hurts). I want to make sure that we as a couple are solid before we bring a child into this world. It's not a house, car, apartment, or dog that you can just get rid of. She didn't like that answer. She said she never insulted me and that I don't love her, and that I'm selfish. For the past few months she keeps bring it up, nightly. Insults too. No matter how much I explain that I don't want to be treated that way, let along my kid, it is all my fault. She said she would never change. That we don't work. Mistake. Then she later says that she says those things because I hurt her and can't understand why I feel like she treats me bad.

Looking back, I have agreed to a lot of things, hoping to make her happier. Her moving in with my family. Getting an apartment. Getting a house. Getting a dog. Things that should come, but were ultimately forced without care for my opinion. But, if it made her happy, I would do it. But a kid, I cannot in good faith bring into this world to be put through what I have, or even be subject to overhearing it. Is it selfish? If it is, I hope is the good kind.

I never brag (Unless with a joking smile on my face) about what I have or do. I clean. Cook (Even on the days that I worked and she didn't). Laundry. Grocery shopping. About 90% I do and/or pay. But if I sit for a second while she is cooking, I am lazy, and she runs off to the room and locks the doors for me to finish and beg her to come out to eat.

I used to have friends, but she said they can't help me in my career and life. If I go out, it's with family, and if she doesn't want to go, I am guilted while I am out and when I get back. She goes out a few times yet I never guilt her.

I try to learn a language via Rosetta Stone, just for maybe 30min, and she flips out. I try to write another book, but when I try she throws a fit. She spends so much time on her phone, and if I even look at mine for a second our relationship is doomed.

She doesn't want to go out unless it's free. I can't take her on a date (I keep trying) without her being mad about how much it costs or other places/things would be better. I took her on vacation that she seemed fine with UNTIL we got there and decided to throw a fit and yell in front of others about how boring it was.

There is so much I could really write a short story about it.

To sum it up, I don't think I'm bad. Girls have often said the feel bad about not hooking up with me and I treat people I'm with with respect. I used to joke around, but now I have to watch what I do and say to the point I don't say anything. I pay for nearly everything. I don't insult her. I tell her I love her all the time, with rarely one in return. I try to do random things with her, but it often goes unappreciated and causing more problems.

I gave up things I like doing just because she doesn't like them. I never asked her to give anything up. She just tells me she will never change.

So, that's my ramble. Just think, that’s just the summary!


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## tryingtobebetter (Aug 6, 2012)

Before any one else says it, you might benefit from reading No More Mr Nice Guy


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Dude. Wow. You are totally a doormat.  You NEVER should have married this woman to begin with, and I commend you for having the sense to NOT bring a child into this mess! This woman does not love or respect you whatsoever. You will never, ever make her happy. Are you willing to subject yourself to this abuse for the next thirty years? You sound like a great guy, its time you stood up for yourself and shoved this woman out of your life.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

What are you getting out of this relationship? There must be some redeeming quality you haven't mentioned.

She sounds like a mental case.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

OverTheShoulder said:


> So, that's my ramble. Just think, that’s just the summary!


She sounds nuts. Is she bi-polar by any chance? Has she been evaluated by anyone?

Frankly, I just don't see what is worth saving in this marriage. You have no kids. She constantly abuses you, so why do you want to stay? Everything you do makes her miserable, so why does she want to stay? 

What connection do you have left (other than financial) and what do you realistically want to change?


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## PreRaphaelite (Dec 15, 2012)

Why the hell did you ever marry this woman? She is poison. 

You'd be absolutely crazy to have a child with her. 

What you should be thinking about is getting this woman out of your life.


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## OverTheShoulder (May 1, 2013)

I am by no means perfect.

I thought maybe she had some sort of disorder, but the symptoms never match up. I think it was the way she was raised, as I see a lot of her fathers criticality in her. Her dad treats her mom the way she treats me. I mentioned it, but...you can probably guess the outcome to that. I was raised by my mom, and it's always shoved in my face of being her mistake. She is also one year older than me (Two if she's mad at me).

She also had cancer two years ago, and she had realize (She said) that she would be better. I stayed with her throughout it all, luckily she didn't need radiation/chemo. She had a few scares after, including right now.

She is good around other people, and my family loves her (except the times she lets her temper slip).

I think that she has the capability of being the person who I orginally met.

The way I think of it, she has the mentality of a 13 year old spoiled brat that believes 100% that growing up means doing all of these things. She has to really grow up sometime....right?

I guess I don't like giving up. I don't want to leave someone alone, and be alone myself.

Financially, we both have enough to survive seperately. Like I said, she has pooled the money (She doesn't spend much) and frankly, I don't care about it, as it was suppose to go to her parents (I HATE living in debt to people I know). I have a small savings of maybe 10K.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

So what do you want here? People to tell you go right ahead and start having kids despite how she behaves? No one will tell you that, and ultimately it will be your choice to do whatever you want.

She's not a stable person from what you describe. She most likely will treat the child/children the way she treats you. If that's what you want, and to do constant damage control then by all means have at it. I think it would be very unfair to a child to grow up in a house with turmoil like you describe you have experienced.


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

1. She has a mental illness. You don't want to raise kids with a spouse/role model like that. 

2. Having kids adds stress and responsibility to your life. That will make her illness worse, not better. That will make yours marriage worse, not better.

Edited to add that her brand of mental illness is abusive and destructive. Other people with mental illness are able to be good parents.


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## OverTheShoulder (May 1, 2013)

A Bit Much said:


> So what do you want here? People to tell you go right ahead and start having kids despite how she behaves? No one will tell you that, and ultimately it will be your choice to do whatever you want.
> 
> She's not a stable person from what you describe. She most likely will treat the child/children the way she treats you. If that's what you want, and to do constant damage control then by all means have at it. I think it would be very unfair to a child to grow up in a house with turmoil like you describe you have experienced.


I want to see if anyone has had a smiliar situation. After looking all over the web, its always the man doesn't want the kid and he is selfish. It never really says WHY he didn't want kids.

If someone was in a smiliar situation, what happened, or what did they do to change the relationship for the better.

Any ideas on making this work before giving up?

I know it sounds....I don't know....pointless to some, but if there is a chance to make it work, I want to do it first. Not the baby though.....


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

OverTheShoulder said:


> I want to see if anyone has had a smiliar situation. After looking all over the web, its always the man doesn't want the kid and he is selfish. It never really says WHY he didn't want kids.
> 
> If someone was in a smiliar situation, what happened, or what did they do to change the relationship for the better.
> 
> ...


Stop for one moment. Put brakes on EVERYTHING in your mind about you, her, the marriage, kids, house job etc.

What do you love about her?
What does she love about you?

Do you respect her as a person you deal with on a daily basis?
Does she respect you as a person and man?

Do you feel you can open up to her like she's your best friend without worrying about her reaction?
Does she open up to you? Does she treat you like how someone would treat their best friend.

Start with those questions. This is something to process slowly and thoroughly.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

OverTheShoulder said:


> I want to see if anyone has had a smiliar situation. After looking all over the web, its always the man doesn't want the kid and he is selfish. It never really says WHY he didn't want kids.
> 
> If someone was in a smiliar situation, what happened, or what did they do to change the relationship for the better.
> 
> ...


What are you trying to make work? Unless she goes to get some counseling for her anger issues and sees a physician about her mood swings there is no way you should be contemplating having kids. She's abused you several times over, and you want to know how to make it work?

You can't fix her. As much as you want to, you can't. You also deserve to be treated with respect. When was the last time she did that?


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## IrishGirlVA (Aug 27, 2012)

OverTheShoulder said:


> We got married.


Make this your *last* mistake. 

Don't even raise a goldfish with this woman.


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

OverTheShoulder,

I'm really sorry you are going through this but I cannot stress this enough DO NOT HAVE CHILDREN WITH THIS WOMAN! NO! F NO! AND ABSOLUTELY NEGATORY NO! Clear enough? Do not listen to your penis!

I have a child (whom I love very much) with an abusive woman who nothing was good enough and controlled me as much as possible. Lost friends, hobbies and just general sense of self with this person. The real claws came out once our son was born so I can tell you from experience that it will get worse once she becomes a mother. You will along with being abused will become a walking paycheck and you will kill yourself trying to meet her "needs" which are impossible for all but Superman. 

Do yourself a favor and swiftly and decisively drop kick her to the curb and let her find herself another man to abuse. Abusers are not worth it EVER! Dump!


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## Blue Firefly (Mar 6, 2013)

OverTheShoulder said:


> I think that she has the capability of being the person who I orginally met.


Here is your core problem.

You think the person she was when you met was the real her. It wasn't. She was on her best behavior when she was trying to land you as a husband. Once she had you locked down, she dropped the charade.

The person you see now is the *real* her.

You can't fix her so stop holding onto some thread of hope that you can fix her. This is who she is, and she likes it just fine.

You need to make a decision if this is the person you want to spend the rest of your life with--just as she is right now.

Stop having sex with her. The last thing you want is to get her pregnant and be tied to her forever. I wouldn't even depend on condoms or other birth control. Just stop.

As someone that grew up with an abusive parent, I can tell you that your kids will be miserable and messed up. Think long and hard before you place children into that kind of situation.


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## Blue Firefly (Mar 6, 2013)

OverTheShoulder said:


> ...and he is selfish.


There's nothing selfish with a man wanting to have a normal, loving relationship with his wife.

But, she isn't providing that. In fact, she isn't even meeting you half way. She is abusing you, which is--by definition--a selfish act.

So, she gets to be selfish and cruel, and that's...OK. But, you want to protect yourself from her cruelty, and that...selfish?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

OverTheShoulder said:


> I think that she has the capability of being the person who I orginally met.


Really?? Cuz HERE is the woman you originally met, she evidently lasted less than six months:

"The first six months (During an internship) she was fun, gave motivation, but had a side that would send her into a depression of a sort. Like, "You don't love me." and a lot of her digging into my past relationships to make more of them than they really were. No matter what I would say, I was lying in her eyes. She got over it (For a while). I never pried into her past, even though I had heard things that may unsettle some. The past is the past.

She went back to school (I paid for her books and plane ticket to visit my home before she went to school), and we talked every night for hours. About halfway in the semester, she began to say she was getting busy with school. I understand, but a few days turned to a week. Then when we would meet up online she would ask things like, "I need someone who can take care of me.", and "I want someone who can treat me better." Obviously, I was crushed, and asking the question of what I did. But I couldn't give up. When I paid for her return to school, I also had booked a ticket for Christmas. It was on and off if she was coming. She came...and she stayed.

So she moved in with some family so we could stay close, and we both worked part time while we searched for better jobs. Both taking online classes to finish up our degrees. I paid for most meals, as she was extremely depressed for getting so little money for a job she felt to good for. She was also away from home. I never held it against her; I just wanted her to be happy. We spent everyone nonworking moment with each other.

Then we both get another internship, hers better than mine, but it didn't matter since it was at the same place. We arrive, and she began holding her job over mine. We lived in small shared apartments, but we lived only five minutes or less walking distance apart. She hated having roommates, and told me that we were going to move out and rent our own place off property. She told me I could join her or not, she didn't care. I tried to discuss the options, pros and cons, but she had made up her mind. I joined her. We rented a three bedroom townhouse, and got roommates and charged them so much we only needed to pay 100$ (I paid), and a portion of utilities (I paid)."

She was never good, and you need to come to grips with that reality. She sounds bordeline to me.


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## MeditMike80 (Dec 29, 2012)

As I see it, you have two options:

1. RUN
2. Explain to her in no uncertain terms that the way she treats you is uncalled for and that you're not putting up with it for one more day. And go to counseling, for the love of God!

Look, if you decide to have kids without any fixes being made your daughter(s) will grow up thinking that this kind of behavior is an appropriate way to treat their husbands and your son(s) will think it's ok to marry emotionally, verbally, and physically abusive women.

I'd suggest working on fixing the marriage first before leaving. In my eyes, marriage is forever and even though I LOATHE Dr. Phil I do agree with him when he says that a divorce needs to be earned.


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## IsGirl3 (Nov 13, 2012)

oh my goodness. if there was ever a case for divorce, this is it. what kind of parents did you have that you think for some reason, this is what marriage is all about? forget marriage, this isn't even what a friendship is all about. friends don't treat friends this. she's not even your friend. it sounds like she thinks you are the enemy and the competition. there is absolutely nothing you can do to make yourself happy. is there anything you think you can do to make her happy? no - because she'll one-up that and find another reason to be miserable.

she is not mother material - not of your kids. you want a kind loving woman and kids who see that their mom loves their dad. you know how your relationship will make your kids feel? Like sh!t. 

You think you should hang in there because you're not a quitter. This isn't about quitting. It's about wanting happiness and love and respect in this life of ours that goes way too fast. It's not about suffering with the verbal abuse that you've put up with way too long.

See a therapist to understand why in the world you married such an insulting miserable unappreciative disrespectful angry woman and do what you have to to get out. And don't buy it if she promises to change. 

As others have said before, the woman you fell in love with was just a charade to snag you.


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## Laila8 (Apr 24, 2013)

I wouldn't treat my worst enemy the way your wife treats you. She has major issues. Please do NOT have a child with her.


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## OverTheShoulder (May 1, 2013)

A quick update, and a taste of what I deal with.

So last night, I got home, cooked, emptied dishes from dishwasher, some clothes. All while having my laptop on to catch up on some shows I like and she doesn't.

She gets home from the gym, takes a shower, and then comes to the kitchen and we begin talking. The whole time talking about our days at work, funny things we heard, ect.

I dish up the food, we go to the living room and turn on the TV and we eat, still talking. After she is done, she decides to call her grandparents. I am good with it. I clean up the dishes. Then when I went back, she had called her mom. This usually means an hour or more of talking, and she does it almost daily. Again, I never complain because she is so far away, and I never want to limit her contact.

Since I had no time to relax since I had been home, and I had a meeting at 8am (Almost hour drive to work), I decided to just lie down in the bedroom. She walks in and turns on the lights and lies on the bed and continues to talk. I told her I was tired (Not mean, just a stretch and a yawn), and she replied that I am always tired (Which is true).

She hangs up a little later, and instantly starts pouting that she wants to go home, and that she would get treated so much better there. Said that she feels like I don't love her, and she is really hurt that I don't want kids, and that she doesn't know why I think she treats me bad.

I told her because she does, and give her examples that she denied. Said to start writing them down. I said if I did then she would just say I was lying, that I could write whatever I wanted.

She says she acts the way she does because I told her to wait to have kids. I told her I said that six months ago, what was the reason before that. She said she didn't.

Every time I said something about improving myself and her (Never singled her out), she would just sarcastically say "I am a bad person, it's only me who has to change."

Long story short, we didn't go to sleep until 1am, and nothing was solved. She doesn't want to hear my opinion and the way I feel. She says I don't understand how she feels about being away from family, seeing other people who have lives, and treated well.

I asked her if I treated her bad. She said no, just not up to her expectations, that she would get from home.

She always chooses the days to argue at night when I have to get up extra early.

Asked her if she wanted to go see a therapist (Both of us) and she said no (I don't believe in therapist but willing to give it a shot).


This thread is a big help. When everyone mentions something, I tested it at home for the things I could just to see her reaction. Not very favorable, but she still breaks down when I tell her why I love her.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Let her go home. You don't need this aggravation and she'd be much happier there. She said it herself.



> I asked her if I treated her bad. She said no, just not up to her expectations, that she would get from home.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Yep, tell her to go home. Be done.

I'm going to be brutally honest here, I dont think you really love her. I think you love the IDEA of wife and marriage, and this is what you have gotten stuck with. Search your feelings honestly, because she sounds unlovable.


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## Blue Firefly (Mar 6, 2013)

OverTheShoulder said:


> I dish up the food, we go to the living room and turn on the TV and we eat...


Stop eating in front of the TV. If there is one thing that benefited out marriage more than anything else, it was sitting down at the dinner table with no distractions. This forced us to talk to each other for at least 30 minutes each night.



> She walks in and turns on the lights and lies on the bed and continues to talk...She hangs up a little later...


You need to end the distractions in the bed. No phones, no computers, no books, no nothing. The bed is for sleeping and intimacy and nothing else. This was another boundary that helped our marriage.



> Every time I said something about improving myself *and her*...


You cannot improve another person, only yourself. Quit trying to fix her and concentrate on fixing yourself. She can either follow your lead or get left behind.

As long as you depend on her improving, nothing will every improve. She is who she is. You can't remake her. Either accept her 100% as she is right now or reject her.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

OverTheShoulder said:


> she doesn't know why I think she treats me bad.
> 
> I told her because she does, and give her examples that she denied. Said to start writing them down. I said if I did then she would just say I was lying, that I could write whatever I wanted.


Then don't write it down. Carry a voice recorder with you and use it when she gets particularly bad. That way, she can't accuse you of lying (although she will probably accuse you of trying to "trap" her or deliberately making her feel bad). You said she calls you gay, stupid, loser, and worse. Record her voice and play it back for her. Sometimes people have no idea how harsh they sound and are shocked when they hear it for themselves.


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## Laila8 (Apr 24, 2013)

I think you're way too nice to her! Does she do any dishes or work around the house? It sounds like from your description you do it all while she relaxes or gabs on the phone.


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## OverTheShoulder (May 1, 2013)

I actually never REALLY thought of marriage or a wife at the time of meeting. I am/was not the guy to fantasize over getting married. If it happens, it happens, I thought. The idea of marriage neither motivated me nor deterred me. I could be just as happy being with someone not married (I say that now, but never went into an extended relationship to prove it). Despite some signs from the first six months, I chalked it up to stress on her part. Pretty much our relationship up until a year ago has been rushed in a sense, so I made the excuse for her, and feeling guilty about it. 

I thought about a recorder, but I feel like it would cause more harm than it would help. Plus it happens so fast I probably wouldn't have the time to hit record.

We eat in front of the TV a lot, but honestly never really watch it. We finish before we get interested. We just like the couch. At the table, we are done within five minutes because we are both usually starving.

The process of cooking (When she's home) and cleaning (When she helps) we talk a lot.

I am not trying to change her, just make her realize what she is doing, and that I don't like it and it's not right. She does throw in my face that it's the way she is and I can deal with it or leave. She is refusing to accept it, and turns the blame on me on making her that way (She took the words from my mouth from years ago. I told her that if she kept treating me like that, I was afraid I may start acting like her, and that’s not the person I want to be.). I ask how and why so I can work on myself, and she just gets frustrated. It's like she is grasping at straws or even make me be the one to call for separation.

Keep in mind, this is from my point of view and looking back at my words, it does sound harsh, but it's true. As much as I try to see it from her point of view, and with what reasoning she tells me, it is still very wrong.

It's funny, because when my brother stayed with us for a few weeks while he waited to start his internship, she treated him like he needed to always do something "productive" and stop leeching off of us. She began to insult him to. I had to tell her to back off. I agreed with her in some cases (He is very lazy and dirty), but she went too far. 

I am in no way saying she doesn't do anything, though. She sweeps (Plus we have too Roomba), steam mops (Plus we have a Roomba Mop). She cleans the bathroom. She cleans the kitchen (As far as some organizing and wiping down counters). She does some laundry, but not as nearly as much as she makes its seems. Same with dishes. She HATES the dishwasher, and I love it (I wash things that are big) because it fills really quickly. Once and a while she pulls weeds from the side flower bed. She cooks maybe once a week.

On the flip side, maybe once a month (Sometimes none and sometimes more), she works a day at her seasonal job. That day I generally clean, do the lawn; maybe have an hour to myself. She usually tries to guilt me that she's working and I'm off. I told her she doesn't HAVE to work.


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## notperfectanymore (Mar 1, 2012)

I am so sorry you are going thru this...sounds to me like a case of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Please look up Uptown's post. He as a wealth of info on it...you cannot fix these people...they have to fix themselves...and most cannot...much helpful info at Borderline Personality Disorder - Support group for families and relationship partners

Protect yourself...carry a VAR in your pocket....find a place to get a decent night rest...

Good luck to you


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> *I am not trying to change her*


Sure you are. Without success I might add. She is who she is, and who she is isn't appealing to you.



> *just make her* realize what she is doing


Make her? You can't MAKE her do anything. She is her own person. You have no control over what comes out of her mouth or what she thinks. She *chooses* to disrespect you, in spite of your protests that she is.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

OverTheShoulder said:


> I am not trying to change her, just make her realize what she is doing, and that I don't like it and it's not right. She does throw in my face that it's the way she is and I can deal with it or leave.


She is giving you an out here, TAKE IT. This statement right here shows that she doesnt give a single damn about how you feel, and that she feels her behavior is perfectly in line. 

You can do SO MUCH better than this woman.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

OTS, I agree with NotPerfect (post #28) and 3xNoCharm (post #17) that you are describing typical symptoms of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder), which my exW has.


> I thought maybe she had some sort of disorder, but the symptoms never match up.


Actually, they seem to match up very closely. The behaviors you describe -- the temper tantrums, verbal and physical abuse, always being "The Victim," very controlling behavior, blame-shifting, rapid flips between loving you and hating you, repeated self harm, and black-white thinking -- are classic traits of BPD.

Of course, you cannot determine whether your W's BPD traits are so strong as to meet 100% of the criteria for having full-blown BPD. Only a professional can do that. Yet, even when the traits fall well below that diagnostic threshold, they can make your life miserable and undermine a marriage. 

Moreover, there is a world of difference between _making a diagnosis_ and simply _spotting the warning signs_. You are capable of spotting all strong occurrences of BPD traits if you will take time to learn what red flags to look for. They are not difficult to recognize. There is nothing subtle about traits such as temper tantrums, verbal abuse, and always being "The Victim."


> The first six months ...she was fun, gave motivation.


During the courtship period, a BPDer typically mirrors your personality so perfectly that you both are convinced you have met your soul mates. During that period, her infatuation over you convinces her that you are the perfect man who has come to make her happy. In this way, her infatuation holds her two great fears (abandonment and engulfment) at bay. 

As soon as the infatuation evaporates, however, those two fears return and you will find yourself triggering them and releasing her anger. Because that infatuation period typically lasts only 3 to 6 months, you were lucky to have the full 6 months before her BPD traits started showing themselves.


> I think that she has the capability of being the person who I orginally met.


I disagree. What you saw for six months was an infatuated young woman who was mirroring the best aspects of your own personality. If she is a BPDer (i.e., has strong traits) she did not do it to manipulate you. Rather, she did it because she has such a weak self image that, since early childhood, she has been mirroring people as a way of fitting in and being loved. The mirroring is necessary because her self image is so fragile and unstable that she needs someone else around to center her and ground her. As BlueFirefly explained so well (post #15), _"the person you see now is the *real* her,"_ and the person you at the beginning was not.


> Sometimes she would pull her hair, bang her head on the wall, curl up in the bathroom, and drive off for hours without a word.


Self-mutilating behavior like head banging, hair pulling, and cutting are _strongly_ associated with BPD. A 2004 clinical study, for example, concluded that "the majority of those who self-mutilate are women with borderline personality disorder." See Understanding those who se... [J Psychosoc Nurs Ment Health Serv. 2004] - PubMed - NCBI.


> Sometimes she gets physical and starts slapping in throwing punches. All I can do is hold my hands up and block.


Like self mutilation, such physical abuse -- called "spousal battering" -- also is strongly associated with BPD. A 1993 Canadian study, for example, found that roughly half of the spousal batterers (all of whom were male in the study) had full-blown BPD. See Roger Melton's summary of those results at Romeo's Bleeding - When Mr. Right Turns Out To Be Mr. Wrong -- Health & Wellness -- Sott.net.


> Threatens to call the cops.


Because BPDers are convinced they are eternal "victims," they have a strong desire to validate this false self image by always having a spouse around whom they can blame for every misfortune (real or imagined). It therefore is common for the abused spouses -- particularly the abused husbands -- to be arrested on a bogus charge. At the end of my 15 year marriage, for example, my BPDer exW had me thrown into jail for 3 days for "brutalizing" her.


> Once she was calm ...she would say she says the things because she loves me and wants me to be better. Every time.


One hallmark of BPDers is the ability to flip -- in only a few seconds -- between loving you and devaluing (or even hating) you. And they can flip back just as quickly.


> I have agreed to a lot of things, hoping to make her happier. Her moving in with my family. Getting an apartment. Getting a house. Getting a dog.


If she is a BPDer, her traumatic childhood likely left her with an emptiness inside that is a bottomless pit. Trying to "make her happy" is as futile as trying to fill up the Grand Canyon using a squirt gun. As Sanity said (post #14), "You will become a walking paycheck and kill yourself trying to meet her needs."


> I used to have friends, but she said they can't help me in my career and life.


Because a BPDer has such a great fear of abandonment, one of the first things she will do in the marriage is to try to isolate you away from all your friends and family members. It will be much easier for her to control your behavior if you don't have a support group that will express disapproval.


> I took her on vacation that she seemed fine with UNTIL we got there and decided to throw a fit and yell in front of others about how boring it was.


In addition to the abandonment fear, a BPDer also has a great fear of engulfment, i.e., the feeling of suffocation that occurs during intimacy. It is a very strong fear because she will feel like your strong personality is dominating her and that she is losing herself into your personality -- as though she is evaporating into thin air. This occurs because a BPDer has such a fragile, unstable sense of who she really is.

The result is that, immediately after a great intimate evening or a wonderful weekend spent together, a BPDer will feel so engulfed that her subconscious mind will create an argument (over nothing at all) to push you away. This is why, with BPDers, the very WORST arguments are usually started immediately following the very BEST of times. 

Not surprisingly, then, it is difficult for a BPDer to behave well throughout a week-long vacation. My BPDer exW, for example, would usually throw a hissy fit by the 3rd or 4th day (if not sooner) of the vacation. The first time she did this was the morning after our beach marriage ceremony in Hawaii.


> I think it was the way she was raised.


Perhaps so. If she has strong BPD traits, she likely experienced a trauma before age 5 that froze her emotional development. Although nobody has definitively proved it, the psychiatric community believes that BPD is caused by childhood trauma (e.g., abuse or abandonment) or genetics or by both of those factors. Significantly, 70% of BPDers report that they were abandoned or abused in childhood.


> The way I think of it, she has the mentality of a 13 year old spoiled brat.


No, that is too old. If your W has strong BPD traits, she has the emotional development of a 3 or 4 year old. This means that you have a parent/child relationship with her -- not a husband/child relationship.


> She began getting more bold with her insults, calling me a loser, ...I should go suicide, poor, trashy, boring, gay, stupid....


This is exactly how a 4 year old behaves when she has the intelligence, experience, cunning, and body strength of a full grown woman. She will love you while you are bringing out the toys but then will scream with hatred when you take one of them away.


> She has to really grow up sometime....right?


Wrong. One reason is that, as long as you continue walking on eggshells, she will have no incentive to grow up. Another reason is that, after a lifetime of thinking like a four year old -- i.e., being stuck with only the primitive ego defenses of a child -- it is very difficult to retrain one's mind to think like a mature adult. 

Although there are excellent treatment programs for the necessary retraining, it is rare for a BPDer to have the self awareness and ego strength needed to be willing to take advantage of such programs. For the high functioning BPDers, I would be surprised if as many as 1 in 100 will stay in the therapy long enough (several years at least) to make a difference.


> Any ideas on making this work before giving up?


If your W has strong BPD traits, neither you nor a team of psychologists will be able to make your toxic marriage workable unless your W is willing to work hard to fix herself for many years in weekly therapy. But, sadly, it is rare for a BPDer to be willing to do that. I therefore suggest that you see a clinical psychologist -- for a visit or two _all by yourself_ -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you are dealing with.

I also suggest that, while you are waiting for an appointment, you read about BPD traits to see if most sound very familiar. While reading, please remember that every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all of the nine BPD traits. At low levels, these traits have survival value. 

They become a problem only when they are so strong that they distort our perception of other peoples' intentions, thereby undermining our close LTRs. At issue, then, is NOT whether your W has the nine BPD traits, Of course she does. We all do. This is why BPD is said to be a "spectrum disorder."

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits most BPD traits at a strong and persistent level. Not having met her, I certainly don't know the answer to that question. I nonetheless am confident that you can learn to spot the warning signs if you will read about them -- and seek professional guidance. 

An easy place to start reading is my description of these traits at My list of hell!. If that description rings a bell, I am sure that there are many TAM members who would be glad to discuss it with you. Indeed, NotPerfect and 3xNoCharm have already started that discussion. Take care, OTS.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

OverTheShoulder said:


> She always chooses the days to argue at night when I have to get up extra early.
> 
> Asked her if she wanted to go see a therapist (Both of us) and she said no (I don't believe in therapist but willing to give it a shot).
> 
> ...


I think you have to see her like an addiction. It's a drug you love, and can't live without, as you see it now.

See other people's advice, read it and do it.

Get sober. Otherwise this 'love' will destroy you. I can't call it love by the way, it's more like being needy and dependent.

Read what others advised you. Get yourself helped to not being able to have children.


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## OverTheShoulder (May 1, 2013)

So, the worst thing happened a few days ago. My cousin who is the same age as my wife had a baby. It shouldn't be bad, but when I saw the text message, I felt bad. I knew I had to go home and listen to my wife complain how her life sucks.

Well, I get home, cook. She comes home, and start throwing snobby insults at me. I wasn't capable, she said. Ruined her life. I said, "Okay." and went on with my business. Not trying to fight or give her any satisfaction. After that, she was fine for the rest of the day. She is annoyed like hell that my cousin and my aunts post constant updates on Facebook.

Last night, I got home around 6, and cooked and cleaned some. She went to the gym after work and got home at 7:30ish. She asked what I had done, and I said cooked, emptied dishwasher, and put clothes on to wash. Also let the dog out and fed him. Her reply was "That's all? What do you do the rest of the time? I wish I had time off like that."

I reply, "I come home and make dinner so we have food to eat and for lunch tomorrow. It needs to be done if you are here or not."

She HATES when I even try to rest, do something that does not include her, or in general 'wasting my time'. If I am not doing something to better myself, then she throws a fit. That said, she is always on her phone. I used to play a few video games to sometimes unwind, but I haven't touched my system in years. I was never a hardcore guy, maybe two hours a week if I had some time to kill. Nope, not anymore. TV is a waste of time. Even trying to write my book or learn a language is a waste of time because she is not involved. She doesn't understand that we can't do everything, and we do have different likes.

I tried to mention it before, but she always responds by saying that if I want to be a loser my entire life then she want be there.

So, tonite, I am going to pick up subway, sit my ass on the couch and play a game. I am done listening to her complain and insult at every thing I do that I enjoy, benifitial or not. Her way makes her and my life miserable, and evidently everything I do is wrong.

It's so frustrating when you give someone all your time and you get nothing in return except insults. I feel myself starting to want to mimick her too. It's alright for me to adapt for her while she turns critical and mean? Just because she thinks I owe her for leaving her home? That her parents paid for the house? Decisions SHE made, and for the house part, I said I didn't want help with!

So, tonite, I am holding firm and she will see that I want let her push me around with her tantrums. I will not comfort her when she cries about how her life sucks. I have done it long enough, and I sure as hell don't get the same treatment or time put into MY feelings.


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## IrishGirlVA (Aug 27, 2012)

Next time she complains about how much her life sucks you should respond back, "Yeah, so does mine". 

Get your subway and do your thang tonight. If she complains, pick up your sandwich and leave. Go for a drive, go see a movie or j/o in your car. Who cares -- just leave! It's time her behavior has consequences. 

If you are not ready to leave then it's time to at least detach. Her behavior is abusive. Plain and simple. She's the loser.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

I wouldn't come home except to sleep if I had a partner like that. Not even kidding.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Thats awesome, good for you! Its not like trying to make her happy is working anyway, do whatever the hell you want!  What a bitter, unhappy person she is, I dont understand how you are still with her. I will be anxious to read how she responds to this!


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## tm84 (Jul 24, 2011)

OverTheShoulder said:


> So, tonite, I am holding firm and she will see that I want let her push me around with her tantrums. I will not comfort her when she cries about how her life sucks. I have done it long enough, and I sure as hell don't get the same treatment or time put into MY feelings.


I'm not in your shoes, but there's no way that I'd put up with her tantrums. What you describe is no way to live in a relationship. You need to get back to living for you and not let yourself become more of a punchingbag for her emotional/mental issues. You already do a lot in and around the house, so it sounds like she has no reasonable reason to treat you the way that she does. 

She needs professional help and seem like she is going to get any better on her own. Whatever you do, don't let her break you down and have kids with her. Right now, no good can come of it.


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## firefly789 (Apr 9, 2013)

First, do NOT have kids with her. You may be willing and able to put up with her abuse: the insults, the hitting, the neglect. Do you really want to put an innocent child through that who has no choice?

Second, I feel so bad for you that you are willing to accept this as your life. You seem to have so much integrity. You work, cook, clean, look after her. What do you get besides insults? Next time when she asks you what you've done and you've listed it (which is pretty impressive all the chores you have around the house) how about asking her what she has done? Let her know you're not impressed with her list. 

Please go to IC on your own and figure out why you are so willing to put up with this. A marriage is supposed to be a partnership. You are supposed to have each others back. You should be both supporting each other emotionally. Why are you doing everything in this relationship and her contribution is mainly to antagonize you? Please, go to IC for yourself to find out why you continue to take this abuse.


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## Malcolm38 (Dec 25, 2012)

Avoid kids at all costs with this woman.


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## OverTheShoulder (May 1, 2013)

So here is the update:

When I last posted, I said I was going to grab subway and chill. Well, I passed it on the way home. Then she calls me and tells me she is going to the gym, and that she put steak in the freezer to thaw.

So, I go home and prep everything and cook. Watched some TV at the same time. She gets home, and we eat dinner, watch some TV and normal talking, suprisingly relaxing.

We went to bed at 10pm because we had to be up in the morning early for meetings. She wakes me up around 11am for water (I usually have some next to me), and I exhale in annoyment (She does this all the time, even when water is on her side).

She gets up and and walks to the bathroom sink and starts vomiting. Full sink. Now clogged. I rub her back.

She rinces out her mouth and I grab a glove to unclog the sink (She does it). I get sani wipes and clean the "spray". I move the clothes basket to give clear walkway to toilet and left both seats up.

She goes back to bed, and minutes later runs to the sink again. This time, not vomiting, just standing like she is. I go rub her back, and tell her if she needs to do it, do it in the toilet. She shakes her head no. Seconds later, she throws up again. She rinses her mouth as I clean.

I go open the door to our bedroom and put toilet seat up in guest bathroom which is closer that the sink she walks to.

I try putting fluids in her and dramamine. Everything just came up. She said she was afarid to lay down so I told her the leather recliner maybe would feel better. She agrees and I fix up the recliner with a blanket and pillow. Trash can next to her.

She lays there for 45 minutes. I read a book. She gets sick again. All night this way until I crushed dramamine and made her drink it in a little water. This was about 5:30am. I stayed up as she slept for a bit, and fell asleep around 6am. Alarm went off at 6:25am. 

She emails work from her phone, and I decide to work from home to watch her. 

I take a 30min nap and at 8am did a 2 hour call where it was focused on me and my department. With no sleep, it was torture. Hung up, checked on her. Still sleeping. answered some emails, another phone conference. Around 1pm she wakes up and I get her crackers and water. Then a bagel with preserves.

She was feeling better, and it wasn't long before the insults started. I was apperently home just for a day off. I had some time before my next meeting so after being up all night, I was gioing to take a nap on my "Lunch break". No luck, because she said I was lazy and it wasn't me that was sick. She made noices, then went and started to make soup. I got up, not able to sleep, did some work, and then she decided she wanted something salty after the soup. We went to public and got a chicken.

The whole time, my head was spinning and just wanted to sleep. Even at 8pm she was making a big deal about me trying to lay down.

So, I failed my original mission. And just shows how much I am really not appreciated.

I hope she isn't pregnant.

Subway tonite maybe....


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Wow. Just...wow. That was LOW.


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## IsGirl3 (Nov 13, 2012)

I really hope she is not pregnant.

How much abuse can you possibly take? Why do you feel like you should stay married to such an abusive person? The person you fell in love with is not who she is anymore. Maybe she's like that a small % of the time, but the rest of the time, she is an angry, vindictive abusive person.

You can't save her from herself. You are rational and she is not so it is difficult to understand or rationalize or accept what is going on when it is so far from normal.

Pray to God that she is not pregnant and plan your escape. Your self-esteem isn't going to be much better for hanging in there with her. Save yourself. You sound look a good, hard-working, incredibly caring man.

The problem here with a BPD partner is that you can't win, so as long as you stay in this toxic relationship, you will always always always be the bad guy. And you are too young to accept this as your fate.


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## accept (Dec 1, 2011)

You sound like me. I could have witten this post!


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

OverTheShoulder said:


> So here is the update:
> 
> When I last posted, I said I was going to grab subway and chill. Well, I passed it on the way home. Then she calls me and tells me she is going to the gym, and that she put steak in the freezer to thaw.
> 
> ...


STOP HAVING SEX WITH HER! I know crazy can give good loving but its just not worth it when you become the devil in your kids eyes. Unless the Holy Spirit decides to knock her up, if she ends up pregnant later on don't say you weren't warned. 

Brother I was you in 5 years ago. I knocked up crazy because the loving was good and my co-dependancy. Warning after warning from my family and friends. You don't think well when those legs open wide like a venus fly trap and you say to yourself "Just one more time before I divorce this nutjob!". Think with the right head please!


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

OverTheShoulder said:


> I am by no means perfect.
> 
> I thought maybe she had some sort of disorder, but the symptoms never match up. I think it was the way she was raised, as I see a lot of her fathers criticality in her. Her dad treats her mom the way she treats me. I mentioned it, but...you can probably guess the outcome to that. I was raised by my mom, and it's always shoved in my face of being her mistake. She is also one year older than me (Two if she's mad at me).
> 
> ...


Sorry you are going through this but you are not alone; and my wife has also become a mean and verbally abusive person and in regards to the whole parents thing, her mother and father used to(her father passed away)always yell at each other and say mean things to one another for 34 years. So I am starting to feel like this is who she has become because it's what she was taught, and in regards to a child once I told her 2 years ago that I was no longer on board to adopt one(she is unable to have any), that's when she became twice as mean and verbally abusive. I should have left a loooong time ago but there's a part of her that I still love very much.


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## OverTheShoulder (May 1, 2013)

So Friday night, I cooked and we talked like normal people about normal things. Afterwards, she said let's go watch some TV. I cleaned up some (Put food away), and when I got the the living room the TV was off and she was sitting diagonal to the TV with her phone. I said does she want to watch, and she didn't respond.

So I turned on the TV and my PS3 which I NEVER play, and start playing Mahjong (Really, powerful console and can only play a tile game). Anyways, I try to get her involved, and she does for like a minute, then goes back to her phone.

After like 5 minutes, she is apparently done with her phone and starts complaining that I have no focus in life. That we were supposed to be watching TV.

I turned off the console, and told her I had asked, but she refused to acknowledge that I asked. I switched to the cable box and the first thing that was up was the home network, and they were doing some sort of flea market flip. We watched about 45 minutes of that, and about an hour of some other home show. Whole time I tried to engage her in conversation about what they were doing on the show. She replied back and had stuff to add to the conversation.

We go to bed. She starts flipping out once the lights are out about how it was so wrong of her to marry someone whose parents both remaried three times. That I owe her. That it's not fair for her to be away from home. That I am a boring person. That she can't stand me.

She goes on and on. And I finally told her, again, that I have the respect not to treat you the way you treat me. I never get respect. That I wanted to go to see a counselor or something.

She replied that I should go find someone who would treat me well. See if anyone could stand me. Maybe we should separate and we can do our own thing.

I finally said that she always brings up my parents, but she doesn't realize that she is always the one bringing up divorce. That it always seems like she is trying to pressure me into making that "decision" so she would be the "victim" and that I would play out like my parents.

She gets up and leaves the room. For once, I didn't follow her. I usually try and talk to her and bring her back, which she always does. I was to emotionally tired and hurt.

I woke up around 6am, and found her upstairs in our loft bed. She refused to look or talk to me, so I left a glass of water for her. Me, not able to go back to sleep, start doing laundry, sweeping, mopping, dishes, ect. When I am stressed I clean. She comes down, puts clothes on and walks out the door. She is gone for maybe 30 minutes. She posted things on facebook like "The lost daughter will be returning home within 12months", and "Day by myself before my 4 day trip alone!" other things about being tired of the relationship. I text her and told her I couldn't believe she would just leave me. She replied back that I will be surprised what else she would do.

She came home and started packing a suitcase for her Vegas work trip that she left for on Sunday. She was about to back to the car when I started asking why I made her mad, and if I had the right to be mad. That I could post things all over the internet too to make her look bad, but I have respect not too. That she never takes me into account for anything, while on the other hand I take the pain from both of us. That unfortunately, I am like a dog that loves its master. The dog that loves the master, and when the master is drunk and yells at it and kicks it, the dog still comes back looking for some sort of love. But I also told her there is a day when the dog will realize it will not get the love it deserves, and will feel like it's life is threatened and will attack or run away.

By this time it was about 1 in the afternoon, and I hadn't eaten (She ate a bagel before she left). So I proposed to go to the outlet and maybe stop someplace for lunch. Naturally, she softened up to food.

Rest of day we were fine.

She started her period Thursday, but it always seems like she had 365 day period head.

Yesterday alone was great for a change. I changed lightbulds, ****ed the sinks, mowed the lawn, finished off the laundry. Ate leftovers for dinner, so I didn't have to cook. Took some personal time to write some of my book.

I try and tell her that we need to have personal time; that we can't be and do everything together. We each have our own interests and hobbies (Me at least, she has none besides social media and selling her ebay stuff). 

If there is no enjoyment in life, then what’s the point? She complains about not doing anything, but when I suggest things she complains that we have to pay. If it's something free, that we have done before, she complains. She blames me for being boring, but when I ask HER what she wants to do, she doesn't know. We always end up shopping (Which costs money?).

Surprises always end in her asking how much and breaking down what we could have done with the money, so she is rarely satisfied. When she throws a tantrum she will bring it up as a weapon. "You can spend money to go to Disneyland and not pay my parents back/invest/save/ect."

I have time to really think while she is away.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

How do you stand it? You are indeed the dog who loves it's master. She talked all crazy to you, storms off, you bring her a glass of water and keep asking her why she does it. Then you suggest doing something else together like she never said a thing.

I don't know how you do it. I couldn't let my husband talk to me like that and then 5 minutes later act like he didn't. I wouldn't be able to stand being in the same room as him.


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## OverTheShoulder (May 1, 2013)

A Bit Much said:


> How do you stand it? You are indeed the dog who loves it's master. She talked all crazy to you, storms off, you bring her a glass of water and keep asking her why she does it. Then you suggest doing something else together like she never said a thing.
> 
> I don't know how you do it. I couldn't let my husband talk to me like that and then 5 minutes later act like he didn't. I wouldn't be able to stand being in the same room as him.


My tactic to break the mindset of hate. Try and bring her down to see how unreasonable she is. Does it work? I don't know, but when she calms down it is easier to talk.

But I am starting to less and less care each time she does it. This time I waited like 6 hours (Proud of myself about that too). When the day comes when I don't bring her water is day when it is over. A dog can only take so much.


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

OverTheShoulder said:


> . That unfortunately, I am like a dog that loves its master. The dog that loves the master, and when the master is drunk and yells at it and kicks it, the dog still comes back looking for some sort of love. But I also told her there is a day when the dog will realize it will not get the love it deserves, and will feel like it's life is threatened and will attack or run away.


That's just great. You confirmed to her that you are a dog and she is a master. So there's no incentive at all for her to change now, because who wants a relationship with a dog? You are enabling her behavior even as you think you are resisting it. 

Seriously, that was a horrible choice of metaphor for your relationship. I suppose it explains why you enable her, but couldn't you find a better one to describe your situation?


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Reasoning with a mentally ill person is impossible. I'm not convinced she's mentally ill, but instead just a very unhappy, hateful person. You can't do anything to change her mind about you.


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## OverTheShoulder (May 1, 2013)

VermisciousKnid said:


> That's just great. You confirmed to her that you are a dog and she is a master. So there's no incentive at all for her to change now, because who wants a relationship with a dog? You are enabling her behavior even as you think you are resisting it.
> 
> Seriously, that was a horrible choice of metaphor for your relationship. I suppose it explains why you enable her, but couldn't you find a better one to describe your situation?


It was spur of the moment. Our dog was sitting between our legs watching us wanting to play.

Maybe bad choice of words, but the part that I hope she heard was the end.

I would hope she starts thinking about it. She would have a lot to lose. Her parents really bought us the house as a wedding gift. Wife feels guilty and wants to pay them back. Fine with me. I take care of the house and all bills and payments. 

I could take half of everything and make out while she looses big. I am not that kind of person, and frankly I would just not want to owe anyone if we did divorce (Credit Cards, Her, ect). If she tried to nickel and dime me (Which I am confident she would do), then I will stake claim on the house as a scare tactic. If she is a HUGE pain and still pushes and continues to be greedy (Which is her) then I will take half just so she learns her lesson. It's sad to say, but I have thought about it. Again, I don't care about money much, just not having to owe and have a fresh start like we had began. Currently, the only thing I make paymenst on is on the rooms 2 go credit card of like 2.5K with 0 interest until 2015. I could pay it off now though. We have no other loans or outstanding CC. In fact, like I mentioned, she saves the money while I spend it. I wouldn't even try and grab that money (Unless, again, she tries to take what I let her and still ask for more). Typing it now makes me look heartless


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## Blue Firefly (Mar 6, 2013)

OverTheShoulder said:


> My tactic to break the mindset of hate. Try and bring her down to see how unreasonable she is. Does it work? I don't know, but when she calms down it is easier to talk.


That's a bad plan.

It violates the one golden rule of relationships:

*You cannot change another person; you can only change yourself.*

Throw that plan out the door; then walk out into the yard where it landed and pee on it; then take a sh!t on it; then invite your next door neighbor over to take a sh!t on it. Make it so vile to you that you will never consider touching it again.

You need to be working on yourself.

1) Spend some time in the men's section on this forum. Read the sticky nice guy reference.

2) Create an id on the "No More Mr. Nice Guy" forum, and post your situation there.

3) Get the book "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Glover and start working through it.

You need a new plan, and it should 100% revolve around * changing and improving yourself*.

As long as your plan (even just 1% of it) depends on your wife changing, it is doomed to failure. Dooooooooomed.


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## OverTheShoulder (May 1, 2013)

A Bit Much said:


> Reasoning with a mentally ill person is impossible. I'm not convinced she's mentally ill, but instead just a very unhappy, hateful person. You can't do anything to change her mind about you.


Unfortunatly, I can never follow my own advice. I hate "What If's", but I always think about what makes her unhappy and if I can somehow accomodate, fix, or change something that her life would be better. Evidently, after getting much of what she wanted she still wants more and her attitude has not improved. Spoiled princess.

Many people think she has bipolar. Even I don't want to admit it, but I keep seeing the signs the more I look into them.

I would rather to at least try in vain than to just throw my hands up and give up.

Reaching my roads end though. Seems like I am getting to a comfortable spot to just throw my hands up.


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## MeditMike80 (Dec 29, 2012)

How do you not have her stuff thrown in a garbage bag sitting on the curb for her when she gets back? Seriously, she's made it painfully obvious she doesn't respect or love you! I feel so much sorrow and pain for you. You deserve much better than this. If I were you, I'd also have divorce papers waiting for her. I know you love her, I can see it in all you do for her, but at the same time, don't you deserve reciprocity? So what if you divorce her and she plays the victim card?

What are you afraid of?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OverTheShoulder (May 1, 2013)

MeditMike80 said:


> How do you not have her stuff thrown in a garbage bag sitting on the curb for her when she gets back? Seriously, she's made it painfully obvious she doesn't respect or love you! I feel so much sorrow and pain for you. You deserve much better than this. If I were you, I'd also have divorce papers waiting for her. I know you love her, I can see it in all you do for her, but at the same time, don't you deserve reciprocity? So what if you divorce her and she plays the victim card?
> 
> What are you afraid of?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The usual. Being alone. Not finding anyone else. Being wrong. Love.

Flip side it could be much better. A "What if" scenario that I hate.


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## MeditMike80 (Dec 29, 2012)

OverTheShoulder said:


> The usual. Being alone. Not finding anyone else. Being wrong. Love.
> 
> Flip side it could be much better. A "What if" scenario that I hate.


I'm not trying to push you in anyway, but do you think being alone etc could be much worse?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

OverTheShoulder said:


> Unfortunatly, I can never follow my own advice. I hate "What If's", but I always think about what makes her unhappy and if I can somehow accomodate, fix, or change something that her life would be better. Evidently, after getting much of what she wanted she still wants more and her attitude has not improved. Spoiled princess.
> 
> Many people think she has bipolar. Even I don't want to admit it, but I keep seeing the signs the more I look into them.
> 
> ...



Brother if there are not kids in the picture AND her prognosis for a substantial change is slim, why waste another day with a woman that refuses to be a mature adult and an equal partner? Time to make some decisions. 30 years from now when you look back you will hate yourself for wasting your precious life away because of guilt. Guilt keeps from doing bad things but it can also keep us in bad things.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

OverTheShoulder said:


> The usual. Being alone. Not finding anyone else. Being wrong. Love.
> 
> Flip side it could be much better. A "What if" scenario that I hate.


Talk about irrational.

Do you really believe SHE is the best you can do? 

She may do you the blessed favor and leave you. Maybe that's what you really want. HER to do it.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

OverTheShoulder said:


> The usual. Being alone. Not finding anyone else. Being wrong. Love.
> 
> Flip side it could be much better. A "What if" scenario that I hate.


Its SO much better to be alone than to be with someone who constantly insults you and makes you feel like crap! WHY do you think that this is all you deserve?? Rip off that band aid and end this misery.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

WTF?!?! Holy crap. You're wife sat there and COMPLETELY and UTTERLY trashed you through the mud. Seriously. She treated you WORSE than a total stranger would.

Would a total stranger who has the SMALLEST amount of common decency treat some other HUMAN BEING like how your wife is treating you? NO!

So basically, your wife treats her HUSBAND, worse that I would get if I just walked down the street and said hi to a totally random person.....And what do you do about this.

Clean the house, get her water and compare yourself to an abused PET!

I've read your thread. You're wife has some issues. AND YOU CAN'T FIX THEM.....STOP TRYING. You're codependent with very little self esteem. 

Look. You're not going to divorce your wife right now, I get it. But YOU need counseling. You need to figure out why you're an enabler to an abuser. 

Make no mistakes. You're wife is DOWN RIGHT ABUSIVE. You're the woman with the black eye and arm bruises who is always talking about falling down the stairs.

Please...go seek help in counseling. 

I'm saying this in a spirit of help.


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## OverTheShoulder (May 1, 2013)

She is coming back from her work trip this afternoon. I am picking her up. I shouldn't because of what happened last time I tried to be nice and pick her up even though her company will pay for transportation. Story time....

So, I work until 5pm. She would land at 5pm. She was planning on just taking a cab home. I got off early and text her so when she got off the plane she knew I was off.

She called me, and asked if I was picking her up. I told her "maybe" in a joking tone. She said she would be 10min to get her luggage, and she would meet me at the Departure Delta gate (Deal with less people at departure.).

She ask me again if I was going to pick her up and I said yes...and tacked on an evil laugh with "maybe". She said Okay, see you soon.

I get to the airport, and sit at the departure gate for about 10min. I tried to call her but no answer. A security guard was eyeing me and kept segwaying past. He had nocked on other peoples window before. I decided to just pull out and do a loop. It takes maybe 2 minutes. I did a quick glance and didn't see my wife.

I pull away, and just as I am about to round the corner I see her walking with her phone out. My phone rings. It's to late. She starts screaming about how stupid I was and why I had to joke. That I had seen her. That I start as soon as she gets back. On and on.

I pull back up two minutes later. I get out and she opens my trunk and slams her luggage in and slams the door. Then she gets in the back seat. I look up and the luggage man is just shaking his head as in, "Dude, I am sorry."

She acted like this for a few hours. I told her I wasn't going to pick her up again, and that she can never appreciate things. She says it doesn't matter what I do, that if it's 90% perfect, that it was still a failure.

Yep.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

OverTheShoulder said:


> She says it doesn't matter what I do, that if it's 90% perfect, that it was still a failure.


I read the entire thread.

Sounds like a no-win situation for you.

Sadly, there are dynamics in play here that are, in part, elements of a sadomasochistic relationship. And such relationships go way beyond the typical idea we have of whips, chains, and wearing leather. SM relationships are about more than just actual sex. 

There is a lot more to it: who screams and who cowers; who demeans and who appeases; who controls and who submits. Yeah, your wife may very well be BPD. But it sounds like you are trying everything you know how to appease a raging b!tch. And you do it because there is a fundamental dynamic going on here that keeps getting replayed.

Both of you ARE getting something out of this. If you weren't one, or both of you, would have pulled the plug by now.

What is a tragedy here is you honestly believe you have the power to change another person. Actually, you do not. But if you suck up to your wife long enough or in just the right way, she'll toss you a crumb of kindness. And that's how narcissists and sadists work. It keeps the entire dynamic going a little longer.

Hey, I could be way off base here ... But my antennae went up and something struck me about this having a flavor of S-M relating.

I hope you will get counseling for yourself. Being alone is not the worst thing you can face. Heck, I'd rather be alone on a desert island with nothing but beef jerky, water, and a tennis ball than put up with the sh!t your wife is dishing out.


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## OverTheShoulder (May 1, 2013)

So, some pretty intense stuff went down.

Saturday we were planning on going out to a water park to relax. Get out of the house and unwind some. We were both all for it.

I got up and made bacon and eggs. When I was done, she got up and ate a banana and said she didn't want what I had cooked. I didn't snap or anything, but couldn't help feel annoyed that she couldn't speak up before when I told her I was making breakfast.

As I started to eat (She was done), she said that she wants to fix our problems before we do anything for the day. I said, "Okay" (She usually does stuff like this when we have the chance to get out and enjoy ourselves, even before I told her I didn't want kids for treating me badly.) I pretty much knew that the day was ruined, but I am reaching my wits end.

So she asks how I think she treats me bad. I go into all the name calling, not respecting me or my opinions, constantly negative, ect. She says she isn't doing it, give her examples. I gave her examples. Then she said she hasn't said those things for a long time, then I gave her more examples. She said she says those things but don't mean them. (All things I have heard before.)

So I asked her: "Do you or do you not know you are calling me these names." She said Yes. I asked her, "Why do say those things?". She asks who is the one who made her say those things, that I made her mad. I told her it doesn't matter if I make you mad, that you never treat someone like that. Then I added that the smallest things make her upset. That most of the time she is mad about something she saw or read and thinks is much better than me and her life.

I told her I do not like being compared to others then used as an insult.

I told her that it was my fault that I let her get out of hand with these things, that I should have stood up earlier. That I will not stand for it now. It's my fault that I hadn't realized this was going to get any better earlier.

She again, said that I hurt her. I asked how. She said that I didn't want kids with her hurt her. Then that she was hurt that I told her that she treated be bad, and she thought she was giving me 100% of her love. Those were her rasons for treating me bad.

But, again, I asked her, what was her reason before that 6 months? She was again, speechless. Then said, she didn't think she treated me bad.

I went detail by detail, and each time she tried to say how it was love, not hate. I told her that the "LOVE" was not shown, so I took it at face value (And everyone else would too.)

I told her who would even think about having a kid with someone who is always degrading and threatening divorce, leaving, mistakes, suicide, life sucks, and everything else that she says?

I told her that if she really loved me, at any point, that lets go see a counselor. She said no. That it is for losers. I asked her would she rather just give up. No response.

She began talking about how she would have had a better life, that she had something/someone who would have given her a better life. That could I. I replied back, "You never know how things would turn out. I could be dead, I could be rich, I could be living with my mom, married, divorced 6 times, have kids, be homeless. That it is foolish to use such a horrible insult against someone."

She started to talk about how other husbands treat their wife. I finally told her that I am not like everyone else, and that she is not like anyone else. That wifes I see don't treat their husbands this way. That I tried my hardest to put everything I had for the sole reason of TRYING to make her happy, and I have failed. She said she fell in love with who I used to be.

I asked her the one who picked her up every day from work when I didn't have to? Who would talk her to sleep? Who would take her places new? She said yes. I said I pick her up from the airport when the company would pay for it. That we both have full time jobs so I can't do it. And she now has a car. That when I try to talk about most things she either ignores me, snaps, or gets angry about it being pointless. That when I try to take her knew places, that she always finds a way to throw a fit or complain about costs. I continue to do things that try to suprise her or get out, but its always in vain. It is to the point where I really don't want to do anything anymore. Sleep, eat, TV. She simply doesn't respect me and what I do anymore.

She then go into the cooking and cleaning. Rehash stuff. I hate saying what you are SUPPOSED to do and use it as a weapon. yes, she cleans, cooks, dishes, shopping, but not at the rate I do it. She doesn't see how much I do, maybe because she is in bed, on the phone, or at the gym.

Then she went into the money, saying that she saves. I said I spend my money on the taxes, utilities, food, and a lot more stuff that we need. She starts on about how I never save (again) about how I never put money aside to pay back her parents for the house, the "gift" they gave me to help with my student loan, and her paying off my car (I gave her a few thousand in cash and checks as I get them. Not to mention payed HER federal taxes for two years). I again told her I never wanted those, that I hate owing money to people because they would do exactly what she is doing. That other than a small savings, I spend the money on things we need, and she is saving. But, apperently, if money is not physically being handed over, then it is her money she is saving.

She then repeated over and over that I could go get the papers, start choosing what I want, that she doesn't want me to suffer. She said this in a calm voice, while all other time she was screaming and interrupting.

Then she said something that kind of set me off.

"Other husbands give there wife there paycheck every week."

I cut her off and asked her if that what she wants. My paycheck? I am not other husbands, so stop comparing me to them. That she didn't respect me, she doesn't want to try. 

I went and took a shower and calmed down. Mind set it was over.

After some small talk we temp smoothed it over, and I wrote a list of points we talked about (She wanted me to write it). After I did, she said they were BS because most were about her. I asked her what would she like to add.....she had nothing to say. I did have ME points to work on, and I have been trying to work on them for the past month. They were on the paper.

This the last staw. Anyting that shows signs of her going off again, and I am gone. I have been looking at places to live near work, and it seems like there are many options for a last minute lease. I am now understanding maybe its better to be alone than be treated like this. Who cares being alone for a little bit. Atleast I am not being walked on.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Wow. I'm sorry to say, but she is DONE. She cannot see anything she does in a realistic light, and by flat out refusing counseling, and telling you to file...time to start making that exit plan. And you are right, it IS better to be alone than to have someone crapping on you like this. She isnt even sorry.

Oh, and I LOVE this: "she said that she wants to fix our problems before we do anything for the day". REALLY?? Only ten minutes to fix years of bad treatment, WHO KNEW??


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## Blue Firefly (Mar 6, 2013)

WTF are you doing?

YOU haven't advanced one inch since you started this thread. The above argument is a complete mess. You can't even stay on a single point. You go back and forth from complaint to complaint; and you do it as often as she does.


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## IsGirl3 (Nov 13, 2012)

OMG overtheshoulder, i CANNOT believe you are still with her. Your self esteem is as low as anyone's I've read here. you think so so little of yourself that you are only seeking a pat on the head and think that will wash away all this badness. you want it so bad and you keep looking for that pat on the head, but all you do is get kicked over and over and over and harder and harder and then you keep going back for more and then more again. you need major help to understand why is God's name you put up with this BS for one second , let alone years and years of this abuse. she is about the cruelest person i've read here on these boards. i think you'd be hard pressed to find one redeeming quality about her. you are in love with someone who doesn't exist. maybe she did one day, and you keep hoping and waiting to find her again, but she morphed into a really mean cruel person. get the hell out right now.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

IsGirl3 said:


> OMG overtheshoulder, i CANNOT believe you are still with her. Your self esteem is as low as anyone's I've read here. you think so so little of yourself that you are only seeking a pat on the head and think that will wash away all this badness. you want it so bad and you keep looking for that pat on the head, but all you do is get kicked over and over and over and harder and harder and then you keep going back for more and then more again. you need major help to understand why is God's name you put up with this BS for one second , let alone years and years of this abuse. she is about the cruelest person i've read here on these boards. i think you'd be hard pressed to find one redeeming quality about her. you are in love with someone who doesn't exist. maybe she did one day, and you keep hoping and waiting to find her again, but she morphed into a really mean cruel person. get the hell out right now.


Yup,

Any kindness that you provide will build up this mean and evil side of her. The only way out of it for her is a near death experience or similar.

You can move on with your life, cut off contact, and let her bump her head in the rest of her life.

Your departure and cut off contact will also be a bump on the nogging to at least let someone think "well maybe I shouldn't have done that", as long as you stay there is no reason for her to think this.

Kindest regards.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Just reading your latest discussion/argument had my head spinning.

And it reminded me of the crazy around-and-around-and-getting-nowhere discussions I had with my alcoholic husband. 

I got nowhere.

You are getting nowhere.

There are people like your wife and my husband who just change past history. They deny saying things you HEARD them say.

Again, you are in a seriously no-win situation.

Pull the plug. Either that, or stay and quit complaining about your sham of a marriage.

Heck, that desert island I mentioned looks like paradise to me after reading what you went through with your wife.

You are not LISTENING to what people are telling you here.

We don't need another re-hash of what a loon your wife is. WE KNOW. WE GET IT.

The question is, do you get it?


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## OverTheShoulder (May 1, 2013)

Thanks everyone.

I do think I have made progress with myself. Maybe I am still with her, but she already said she felt the change. My reslove is to leave if she does her bitter outburst again on how she doesn't want to try.

Writing here is more about sharing my story, and maybe someone out there is in a similiar situation and can relate. A way to get things off of my chest too.

Without further ado....a story....

I got home, let the dog out, went to bathroom (To much detail?) and contemplated on what to cook. My wife was suppose to go to the gym, but it was raining hard and decided to just come home.

So grab what we had in aour fridge and freezer, which wasn't a lot, and put it on the table to prep a lite soup. Then decided on making sushi.

She got home, and all I had done at the time was put water on to boil and rice to cook. I told her I was making soup and sushi. We hugged, she said okay. I told her that if she wanted to go take a shower that I would get the food ready. She went to the freezer and pulled out some fish tofu and fish ball and told me to put them in the soup. She knows I hate them (They have a fishy smell and are soggy). I said they were nasty in a playful way, and she said she didn't care she wanted them.

She left for the shower and I made the broth, a peice of meat, onions, blah blah blah. Fish/tofu I would save for last.

She comes out and goes to the fridge without a work and took out a wedge of cheese and salami. 

Now, if we can pause here. I have admitidly tried to snack before dinner before. Got my head chewed off, but i still ate my dinner. With her, she will snack or decide to make something on her own, leaving us with a ton of left overs that go to waste. I have asked her before that it is kind of rude to eat right before dinner, but she always ignored me.

Okay, back to now. I asked her if she could wait a few minutes. In a calm voice. She flipped out and said that it doesn't matter what she is doing. That she is hungry and she wants to eat. She doesn't want to wait. That I am picky and trying to control her. That she let me cook what I wanted.

I asked her why she was yelling, I was just asking if she could wait, that it would only be 10min. That I thought it was rude and that she usually skips dinner afterwords when she snacks. then, probably not the smartest thing to say, is that if we had a kid we wouldn't let him/her eat as right before dinner.

She said it's none of my business and that I can cook whatever I want and she is not complianing. I reply back as, you knew what I was making before anything started, and in fact you added to what I was making. That I was at a place were I could stop and change before her shower. Most of the times I do ask what she wants, and very little does she ask me when she does cook. There have been many times when we shift what we want when we start cooking anyways. So this was nothing new.

She then said that I insulted her by saying that the fishballs (Frozen and not made by her) were nasty. Really? Another example of how she takes things I say to use on me. I kind of stared at her. I don't NOT like a few things. She dislikes a lot, and she has no filter on who she says it too, even me. Collards, black eyed peas, hamburgers, pizza sometimes, and a the list continues. I don't get insulted, even if I made it. Some people just don't like some things.

She cooled down pretty fast and ate what I had made.

So in bed....she says her stomach hurts and she gets up to go poop. I mean she walks in, turns on the light, and lets a big one out. I got up and turned on the bathroom fan and closed the door some. I make sure I do it when I go, and if by some random chance I forgot to do one or both, I would hear it for sure. She flips out that I don't care and all I can think of is turning on the fan. Really? Over a dookey? So I have to rub your back and belly everytime you need to go poop? I got her some water, because in the little temper she had mentioned it. I know, I catered to her. Probably not the smartest.

In bed, she made the comment on how I was always controlling her and insulting her and so picky. When I asked how, she just mentioned today, and couldn't think of another time. Insulted because of the fish balls. Picky and controlling about eating right before dinner. Picky for turning on the fan.

I am open to all comments, but am I wrong for these things? Am I controlling? I feel not, as I feel like the fast 5 years I have been controlled, picked on, and insulted. Real insulted, controlled, and picked on.

So now she is realizing that I am doing more of what I want, and not taking as much crap from her. It is steady, and I do not want to rush it. I could be wrong, but she is noticing my change in attitude and confidence. It struck me as odd as I managed a global group of people and deal with confilct every day at work, why am I being treated like...a dog...at home. Besides that I mentioned I was like a dog.

At the end of the night, we resolved to not snap if either one of us sees something we do not care for, as well as not get defensive.

Another point is that there is always two sides to the story. The more I explain, the more maybe you see mine and her personality. Rushing to conclusions, no matter how big neon signs with surround sound speakers the issue is, sometimes you have to wait and see.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Okay...STOP STOP STOP. STOP catering to her. STOP engaging with her, stop acknowledging her. She is noticing your changes, yet she is behaving in the same way that she always has, mostly because your still cater to her, and still engage in her nonsense. 

Time to sh!t or get off the pot.


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## OverTheShoulder (May 1, 2013)

3Xnocharm said:


> Okay...STOP STOP STOP. STOP catering to her. STOP engaging with her, stop acknowledging her. She is noticing your changes, yet she is behaving in the same way that she always has, mostly because your still cater to her, and still engage in her nonsense.
> 
> Time to sh!t or get off the pot.


I noticed she is frantic now that I kind of stand up, like she is afraid to loose something.

I know, I need to stop catering. Didn't think until after. Working on it. I know I have breakaway problems. Instead of ripping the bandaide fast, I slowly peel it.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

OverTheShoulder said:


> *I noticed she is frantic now that I kind of stand up, like she is afraid to loose something.*
> 
> I know, I need to stop catering. Didn't think until after. Working on it. I know I have breakaway problems. Instead of ripping the bandaide fast, I slowly peel it.


LOL. No she's not. IF she's still treating you the same (and from your latest posts she is, except she's not YELLING) she isn't afraid at all.

You still run behind her like that dog you mentioned a bit ago.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

OverTheShoulder said:


> Many people think she has bipolar. Even I don't want to admit it, but I keep seeing the signs the more I look into them.


She may be but if so, you would have to see two opposites - depression & mania. Google all of the symptoms of both for information.

Re-read Uptown's post about BPD. Isn't one of the symptoms trying to push away the person you love the most as a test to see if they will stay & a BPD's behavior changes to "nice" around strangers or people they don't care much about?

It appears that your entire being is focused on ways to make her happy and ways not to piss her off.

Her every mood runs every aspect of your life. What a depressing and sad way to "choose" to live.

I use the word "choose" because you are a "volunteer" in this nonsense. You are free to walk out the door but your love for her is keeping you there albeit an unhealthy & toxic love.

A book suggestion is "Co-Dependent No More."


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## BrockLanders (Jul 23, 2012)

OverTheShoulder said:


> So, some pretty intense stuff went down.
> 
> Saturday we were planning on going out to a water park to relax. Get out of the house and unwind some. We were both all for it.
> 
> ...


You don't have a chance in hell of her changing unless you produce those papers. Even with the papers the chance isn't great.


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## IsGirl3 (Nov 13, 2012)

i think this thread is going to go on for dozens of pages with you sharing your story and people trying to help and be baffled why you're still in this marriage, and you'll keep giving example after sick example. I'm not saying you shouldn't share your story. It's good to get it off your chest, but do you just want to share your story and keep things the status quo or do you want to change your story.

Since I've read many of your stories here, and made sick by your wife, I'm not sure if you're looking for help or what.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

You wife is a spoiled, entitled b!tch.

You are a doormat.

You just keep going on and on about the same old sh!t.

I completely agree with IsGirl. You just want to whine and sit on your pitty pot. I'm sorry, but you sound like you have no spine.

And I imagine talking about how you are going to give her one more chance, or if she raises her voice you will leave, is nothing more than smoke and mirrors. But if it makes you feel like you are making "progress" in this god-awful marriage, then keep posting.

I simply cannot fathom why anyone would allow their partner to treat them like crap. She does not respect you because you do not demand respect. I dunno ... I guess these sort of dysfunctional relationships serve a purpose, although I fail to see exactly what it is.

However, I believe my post on sado-masochistic relating came rather close to the dynamics of your relationship. 

Well, good luck. I guess when you are sick and tired of being sick and tired, you'll leave.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

OverTheShoulder said:


> I noticed she is frantic now that I kind of stand up, like she is afraid to loose something.
> 
> *I know*, I need to stop catering. Didn't think until after. Working on it. I know I have breakaway problems. Instead of ripping the bandaide fast, I slowly peel it.


No, you don't know yet, you have been hammered on the head with good advice, and you think by yourself: 'Wauw, I just got an idea, maybe I should....'.

To KNOW you need to read a lot of threads in these forums about 'beta', 'doormat', 'enabling'.

Use your spark of light to enlighten yourself on the subject. If you do, and act, you will have cured yourself. But please don't reason about these things, your thinking is flawed and led you to where you are now. Read and educate yourself. Then start thinking with 'a new brain'.


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## OverTheShoulder (May 1, 2013)

I'm back again.

The past two weeks have been...better. But she melted down a few times, and now it is over. I can't stand it.

She was fine, good attitude, no insults. Sometimes she would start but catch herself when something annoyed her. I let her know that letting me know is fine, just do it in a respectful way.

My brother came down from NC to do an internship, and he stayed at our place. Last time he stayed she was so nasty to him. He is not the cleanest or most active person, I know that, and I did agree that he should be more respectful, but the things she did and say were just horrible. 

This time, she was good. She didn't complain as much, and it could be because he was a bit neater. So, on a Friday she went to bed pretty early, and my brother and I decided to play a game. Next morning, she was visibly upset that I played a game. Waste of time in her eyes.

Next night, she goes to her room and talks to her mom, while my brother and I play for about an hour and a half.

She, again, is a bit angry. I had the realization, that I never see my brother, or play games. So why should I be strangled for it? It's not drugs, alcohol, or anything bad. I have always played games in moderation, maybe an hour or two a week, before I met her. I stopped, maybe playing once a month while she was at work and if I had time after the cleaning.

The next day, we were going to go somewhere to get my brother the things he needed for his move in to the dorms. My brother and I were ready, and my wife was still getting ready. She usually takes a good amount of time. So, this being his last day, we turned on the game and played about 5 minutes when she came out and said "Let's go". We had one match left that would only take a minute or too, so I said, "Okay, let us just finish this real quick." She turns and slams the bedroom door.

I died in the game and got up to go talk to her. She was unleashed her words, not as too harsh but still harsh as we had a witness on the other side of the wall. She went on about how we could go, she doesn't want to go. That I have no life, that I know she doesn't like games (BTW, she plays angry birds, unblock me, and superfall). After about an hour of wasting time, my brother and I left and went to Walmart. We stayed there close to 3.5 hours (That had 50% off of a large amount of redtag clearance items!).

While we were there, my brother told me that when he and my wife were alone for a little bit, she started to complain about me or something and he told her that she is lucky and she should try and show me that she loves me more. Say I love you or something. He told her that he knew she sacrificed, but so did I. He said she started to cry a little.

I tried calling her, because I know she loves good deals, and Walmart is only a few miles from our house. No answer.

We get home and she was home and told me she went to gym and to the grocery store and that she had forgot her phone.

After my brother left, it was kind of normal a few days. She would still throw small fits over some little things.

But last night, I was at the edge.

I got home around 6:20PM, wife went to the gym. I put food onto cook, and opened my laptop to watch a show. She gets home, hug, kiss, and talk about each other’s day. Food still cooking in pressure cooker. She gets on her phone, and I turn the show on while I begin placing things on my ebay with my phone (Some of the walmart stuff). She freaks out and shows me a picture of her old roommate who had a baby, and her husband who was now skinny. A few moments later, she gets up and leaves her phone. I think nothing of it, because she NEVER leaves her phone. I heard the shower turn on. Odd, she took a shower at the gym, but maybe she still felt dirty.

Shower turned off, and a few more minutes past. The show was already done (Only had maybe 10min left) and I was just finishing my last post on eBay. Close my laptop, but my stuff away, and grab her phone. Still have some time on pressure cooker. Usually, after showers she just lays on the bed with her phone. But again, I had her phone, and I was getting a bit suspicious.

I walk in and she is curled in a ball crying. When I walk forward and try to comfort her, she makes a gurgling sound and started to hyperventilate. She finally asked out loud, "Why do I deserve this life?" We went through what you have read before. I said I'm not perfect, and feel bad when she feels bad because I take it all as my fault, as the failure. She adds on her insults of how she hates me, then how she just wants to die. Again, she says that I don't treat her well, which baffles me, but you know, maybe I am not the best. Then, again, she says she has felt this way for six months because of what I said about not feeling respected and treated like crap. I told her to please stop using that as an excuse to justify 5 years. She started throwing divorce out, and told me to stop screaming/yelling. I didn't yell. I try to talk in a calm voice, even though my voice is shaky from the hurt.

I bent down and told her that I do love her, but if she doesn't love me or let alone like me, then she needs to let me know.

More small decisions that you have read before, and I decide to take my phone and go lay on the couch. Maybe we both needed some space. I laid there for a few minutes, and I thought I heard the bedroom light turn on. Not unusual for her to get up and blow her nose, and wash her face. I heard some frantic moving, then a sound that sent a chill down my back, a pill bottle. It was raining, so I strained again to listen. I heard the bottle shake again. I jump up and run to the door and made it just in time to see her sitting on the bed, holding a handful of pain meds and some water. I jumped forward as she tried to put them in her mouth, knocking them out of her hands. She reached for the other bottle, a grabbed it. All the time she was just saying please.

I didn't know what to do. Still don't. Feel ashamed. I didn't know if she had already taken some. I asked her but she never responded with a blank expression and closed her eyes and tried to lie down.

I dumped the meds (Pain and nausea). I also dumped liquid pain meds into the toilet.

I went back and asked her if she took any and she didn't respond. Then slowly she said that I don't have to suffer when she is dead. That she doesn't have to suffer. I pull her up and start to stick my finger in her throat, trying to get her to vomit. I didn't care where she did it. The whole time I was begging her to throw up, that if she didn't care about me, I would leave, that this is not the way to handle us. Think of her parents, aunts, uncles, cousins, and friends. Don't think about me, think about them. She replied with "I will see them". I threatened to call 911. So after a good five minutes, she finally said, I'm tired, just go to sleep, I only took one for the pain.

I told her I wasn't going to let her sleep. After 3am, I felt somewhat comfortable that she had maybe taken one (Plus looking at the bottle, they were 2 years expired and low dosage, so it would take a good 6+ to really cause damage. Plus the bottle was half full, and she had used the other half when she had her surgery.

I took pictures of the dumped bottles. I recorded the pills spilled on the floor and as I picked them up. I recorded about 7 minutes of our discussion, getting her verbally acknowledge what she was doing, and her saying she only took one.

I stayed awake, watching her sleep to make sure she didn't do anything. Touching her face and shaking her a little to hear a sound.

In the morning, I told her to be careful of the rain. She said it would have been better to die with pills that a car accident.

I don't know how I will do it, but I need a divorce. I feel if I stay she will twist things and somehow I will get in trouble.

I really can't afford a lawyer, so I am just praying that we can do a simple, "I take my stuff and you take yours." Like I said, I don't want the house or our saving, just out. If she wants to drag it out, then I will go for everything.

I am unsure of my next steps. I have little savings. Nowhere to go. No one to really talk too. I just have to get out now. I don’t even feel safe.


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## IrishGirlVA (Aug 27, 2012)

Next time, call 911. If she did take more than just one pill she needs help. If she only took one pill but alluded to taking more (by giving you a blank stare and not saying otherwise) then call her on her manipulative bluff. 

And you know what? I can almost bet there will be a next time. It gets your attention and it deflects citizism away from her. Win-win for her. 

She is not going to make leaving easy but she's not exactly making life for you easy either. 

I can't imagine living my life with a person and only having a handful of hours that are considered good. 

Good luck with whatever decision you make. You'll need it, I'm afraid.


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## OverTheShoulder (May 1, 2013)

IrishGirlVA said:


> Next time, call 911. If she did take more than just one pill she needs help. If she only took one pill but alluded to taking more (by giving you a blank stare and not saying otherwise) then call her on her manipulative bluff.
> 
> And you know what? I can almost bet there will be a next time. It gets your attention and it deflects citizism away from her. Win-win for her.
> 
> ...


I was 100 ways of confused and worried last night.

I never saw her take a pill, and I actually think she would have taken them if I didn't bust through the door. They were already in her hand when I opened and the cup as well. 

For a second I could see her struggle as she launched them towards her mouth.

I could be wrong, because she is also the person who would not take a single one and leave the pill bottles on the dresser just to make me worry.

I also struggled with 911. I had it in my phone, ready to hit. No one ever wants to believe your husband or wife would kill themselves. Instead I tried to record something just in case if something pops up and tries to bite be in the butt.

I printed the simple divorce papers that I hope she will agree too. I just want out.

Thanks for the wishes, I will need them.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

My ex husband's psychotic, drug addicted, cheating ex wife/re-wife tried this manipulative tactic no fewer than four times in six months. Ridiculous. Divorce this woman, asap. She thinks her life is that bad, then do your part to improve it and get out of it.


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

OverTheShoulder said:


> I was 100 ways of confused and worried last night.
> 
> I never saw her take a pill, and I actually think she would have taken them if I didn't bust through the door. They were already in her hand when I opened and the cup as well.
> 
> ...


Expect more suicide "attempts" and other manipulations to get you to back down. You should have called 911 and had that documented. Some states have laws that will force them into a psychological evaluation since she is a danger to herself. In FL its called Baker acting somebody. Hopefully your state has something like this. 

In the meantime you can go to the county courthouse and get the necessary documentation. If you do not have many joint assets then the divorce should be pretty painless. Please don't be an idiot and take on all the debt and just sign everything away just to make it go away. You have rights. Fight for them!

Do's:

1. Talk to an attorney. Some of them accept payment plans.
2. Follow your head and try to treat this like a business matter than needs to be settled in your best interest. You are the one that matters right now. 
3. Tell family and friends whats going on. Somebody needs to know.
4. Stop all direct deposits to joint accounts and ask the bank to require two signatures for any withdrawals from accounts. Take her off if you can just in case if they can't. 

5. Save all personal documents and call the credit bureaus and ask them to flag your credit so no new accounts can be opened in your name unless you call to authorize. 

Don't:

1. DO NOT HAVE SEX WITH HER PERIOD! No pity sex, no "I'm horny one more time" sex, NOTHING! Sex will be used as a weapon, bargaining chip and temptation. You get her pregnant you might as well have taken the pills yourself. Believe it brother!  

2. Don't date or even try. Get through this process first. Nothing triggers crazy, expensive drawn out divorces like a new GF especially if she's normal and better looking than your STBXW. 

3. Do not get into physical confrontations with her. All it takes is a domestic violence charge to make your divorce 10 time worse.


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## JuanSizemore (Jun 6, 2013)

GO FOR IT DUDE! IT WILL ALL WORK OUT IN THE END. YOUR JUST STAY WITH HER AND PUT UP WITH A LITTLE ABUSE NOW AND THEN. AND IT WILL GET BETTER ON ITS OWN.

Just a little history about myself. I was you in 2005. I hooked up with this chick who was bipolar and was dealing with the EXACT SAME S#!+. It was blissful for about 8 months. We both worked together and she got fired because of her ego. The dumb blind folded arse that I was I walked out behind her and got another job that totally sucked.

Money was tight, especially after getting an apartment together on a single income (she worked an online job making pennies) but I never complained. All the time the few people I would share my life with would share my life with would tell me to run, HARD. I didn't listed because I thought I could fix it. She was FAR from a super model but at times when she was good (on her meds) she made me happy. I put up with be called a looser, a low life and a bunch of crap because I knew that it was the bipolar talking I totally wish I would have listened to my friend. Now I have a beautiful 7 yo daughter that I pay child support for and rarely see and this bi+ch calling all the shots. If your smart you will relocate to a state that she will not find you and get over her fast. Before you get nosy and open up an email in her inbox and find a photo of her going down on another dude like I did. Gods honest truth. 

If you don't believe me just do what I did, repeat paragraph
One to yourself every morning and every night in bed and see where you are in 2 years.

I don't know you from a can of paint bro but I NEVER want another person to go through what I went through.


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## OverTheShoulder (May 1, 2013)

So I downloaded all the forms for a Simple Divorce, because she always said, when she threatened before, that we should just start splitting the stuff.

Like I said before, we have no kids (a dog if that counts), no debts, and everything is paid for. We have no joint accounts. She pooled a lot of money in one account for savings (Since I paid for practically anything else).

She text me yesterday before I got off of work and told me she was going to look for an apartment close to her work. I went home, did dishes and some clothes because they needed to be done. Took the dog out to walk and stopped by my dads who had gone through two divorces, and it turned out they were the same way. He said it was maybe in our blood that we tend to want to fix things, even though we see the signs. We want to make people happy, and we get taken advantage up. He said it took him close to 50 years to figure it out, and was glad I realized it early.

He recommended getting LegalSheild as a just in case. Before, he said it covered most of your divorce, but now you just get a 25% discount, but free advice. Better than nothing, especially if the crap hits the fan.

He also was more worried of her, and told me if it ever happens to call 911 to have it documented, and did reference the Bakers law (Live in FL). He also told me to at least tell her parents. That's hard, since her parents don't speak english.

So right now I am getting LegalSheild.

When I got home, my wife was laying on the bed, and she said kept making remarks like, I need to go to the bank and transfer my money home (To her parents). I know it is illegal to do this, it is pretty much hiding assets. She said she also looked at the apartment, and they don't allow pets so I could keep the dog (YAY!).

She was calm, and in a way sad like she didn't want to do it. Bating me maybe. So, while she is in this calm state, I need to get the paperwork done, get what I need, and get this done. If she flips and wants more from me, then we can go to court. I will likely benifit, even after legal and court fees, if it went to court. We have a good 350k+ in assets, and I am asking for maybe 40k. Smart person would take that settlement.


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## JuanSizemore (Jun 6, 2013)

OverTheShoulder said:


> So I downloaded all the forms for a Simple Divorce, because she always said, when she threatened before, that we should just start splitting the stuff.
> 
> Like I said before, we have no kids (a dog if that counts), no debts, and everything is paid for. We have no joint accounts. She pooled a lot of money in one account for savings (Since I paid for practically anything else).
> 
> ...


Dude do what ever you have to do to get out of this mess. But DO NOT HAVE SEX WITH HER. Mine knew how to act when she wanted it and I was a total sucker. I had no idea that she was ovulating but she did and not I'm trapped in having to deal with her until our daughter is atleast 18. If it was t for our daughter I would have itching to do with her and would never think about her again. Life gets better. I'm married 4 years later (did not want to rush into another mistake) and have another beautiful 2 year old daughter. So stay focused and give her what ever she wants to sign those papers because in the end all that material crap can be replaced and she will STILL have lost the most important thing she ever had, a great man that put up with all her s#!+.
Gods speed brotha.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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