# Don't know if I should say something in therapy or not



## harveymugman

Wife and I married 20+ years. 2 weeks ago I discovered she was cheating on me. Our sex life has been not so good. She says she loves me but is in love with this guy. (Her friend of 7 years, cheating time 1 month) she wants to stay married to me, but won't give up this guy. I asked her to move out. She agrees to couples therapy. Bern there once. In the session I stated I wanted to save the marriage, regain trust in her, and reconcile. She says she loves me but can't be without him. She asks me to be patient. 

The counselor says that we'll work to find a mutual goal and even talked about getting us back together sexually. All the time I'm thinking " but didn't you here the part about me wanting my wife and marriage back and my wife saying she wasn't going to leave the other guy?

I don't want to mess up what might be my only chance to save our marriage. Should I speak up about my doubts that we can ever come to a mutually agreeable resolution based on what I've heard or carry on to see what happens?


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## GusPolinski

Say your piece, Harvey. It's time to change those "nice guy" habits.


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## Philat

What does "mutual goal" mean? Your wife's goal is to have her cake and eat it too. Does the counselor buy this as a legitimate goal? Do you want to save your marriage under these conditions? 

Your goal: Exclusive relationship with your wife (as promised to you when you married). Other man gone for good.

Settle for nothing less in your marriage.


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## Almostrecovered

Let me state something that I believe to be a truism



Marriage Counseling will not work while she is still in the affair





your number one priority shouldn't be MC
It needs to be KILL THE AFFAIR and then see where you are at

For tips how to do that read the newbie link in my signature and get this moved to the CWI forum


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## Philat

Almostrecovered said:


> Let me state something that I believe to be a truism
> 
> Marriage Counseling will not work while she is still in the affair


I think it can work if and only if the counseling is specifically aimed in this direction (ending the affair). From OP's description of the couples (not marriage) counseling, this seems doubtful.

Harvey, the worst thing you can do right now is to be patient. If your W is asking you to wait until her "thing" with the OM runs its course, well, that ain't gonna happen. In order to save yourself a whole lot of wasted time, money and emotional upheaval, act now.

Say your piece, as GusPolinski said. If you do not see immediate and clear agreement on the part of the counselor that the affair has to end at once, then counseling is over. Begin the steps to file for divorce. Why? Your W needs to be shocked into ending the affair if the counseling option doesn't work. If this is not enough to end the affair, then you are not in a marriage worth saving, IMO.

There are some on TAM who would advocate immediate divorce if your wife smiled at a passing stranger. I'm not one of those. But I cannot abide cake-eating. Your W does not even think her affair is wrong, apparently. You cannot talk her out of it, reason her out of it, or "nice-guy" her out of it. Not as long as she thinks as she does right now.


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## Jellybeans

harveymugman said:


> She says she loves me but is in love with this guy. (Her friend of 7 years, cheating time 1 month) *she wants to stay married to me, but won't give up this guy.* I asked her to move out. She agrees to couples therapy. Bern there once. In the session I stated I wanted to save the marriage, regain trust in her, and reconcile.* She says she loves me but can't be without him*. She asks me to be patient.


Word to the wise: There is nothing to reconcile as long as she is still having an affair. 

Cuples counselling is not going to do anything as long as she is actively involved with him and cheating with him and refusing to go no-contact.

You have an open marriage right now.

Tell her to sh*t or get off the pot.

If he is married, OUT him to his wife. Today.


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## GusPolinski

Jellybeans said:


> Word to the wise: There is nothing to reconcile as long as she is still having an affair.
> 
> Cuples counselling is not going to do anything as long as she is actively involved with him and cheating with him and refusing to go no-contact.
> 
> You have an open marriage right now.
> 
> Tell her to sh*t or get off the pot.
> 
> *If he is married, OUT him to his wife. Today.*


And don't believe a single damn thing that you've heard secondhand about OMW knowing about the affair -- this is why I asked if you'd had any contact w/ her in your other thread.


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## tom67

You can't "nice" her out of this.
If he is married expose asap.


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## tom67

Have a mod move this to CWI also.


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## Jellybeans

Harvey - do NOT tell your wife you are going to expose the affair AT ALL. Do not give her any warning. (If in fact he is married/partnered).

Check my signatures for more info.


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## PhillyGuy13

Harvey, these guys hit the nail on the head.

Any and all progress on salvaging your marriage is at a complete standstill until she breaks it off 100%. No contact ever again. And exposure to all relevant parties (other mans wife).

Her demand for patience is unacceptable.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans

"I am willing to work on our marriage with you so that we can both be happy and am up for doing anything/everything possible to save it; but I will not tolerate an open marriage. That is not fair to me or our children. Marriage counseling is not going to do anything as long as you are involved in an affair. If you choose to keep cheating and having your affair, I will lovingly let you go. Our marriage deserves better than that."

Hard lines are the only thing that will work for you.


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## Philat

Jellybeans said:


> Hard lines are the only thing that will work for you.


:iagree: No children here, as I recall, which makes this even more clearly the right approach.


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## PhillyGuy13

FYI to those reading, Harvey has another thread with details in the General section:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/209146-help-marriage.html


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## 6301

If it's me. I throw her out. Help her pack her belongings take them to the door, put her coat and hat on her and tell her that once she steps out of the house then don't come back, don't call, don't bother you, then close the door, hire a lawyer and file, expose the affair to everyone and if the guy si married, tell his wife. 

I would also get your own accounts at the bank, take her name off the credit cards and get them in your name only. If she owns a car, make her pay for gas and expenses including insurance. 

In other words put her on a island where all she sees is empty ocean around her and wish her luck either goo or bad, your choice.

Maybe then she'll wake up and see what she's giving up and then if you want a R, then make her earn every bit of it. She started it, she owns it now she has to pay for it.


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## michzz

6301 said:


> If it's me. I throw her out. Help her pack her belongings take them to the door, put her coat and hat on her and tell her that once she steps out of the house then don't come back, don't call, don't bother you, then close the door, hire a lawyer and file, expose the affair to everyone and if the guy si married, tell his wife.
> 
> I would also get your own accounts at the bank, take her name off the credit cards and get them in your name only. If she owns a car, make her pay for gas and expenses including insurance.
> 
> In other words put her on a island where all she sees is empty ocean around her and wish her luck either goo or bad, your choice.
> 
> Maybe then she'll wake up and see what she's giving up and then if you want a R, then make her earn every bit of it. She started it, she owns it now she has to pay for it.


Wish I'd done what this post says to do years and years before I finally did.

A wife screwing another guy and telling you to be patient with her?

Holy crap!


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## tom67

Spidey sense on this one.


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## Iver

She wants to stay married to you and keep the OM???

I want to eat a tub of ice cream every day and have wash board abs.


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## SamuraiJack

Wow.
You are seriously going to therapy to save your marriage while she is SCHTOOPING another guy?

Man up! Do a 180 on her! 
She's banging someone else because she doesnt respect you and she will do this as long as you let her. 
Look at all that frosting on her lips!

Toss her ass, expose the affair and give her a taste of reality!


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## poppyseed

Iver said:


> She wants to stay married to you and keep the OM???
> 
> I want to eat a tub of ice cream every day and have wash board abs.


:rofl: on a more serious note, I wondered if longer you are married to someone, you'd start to lose in touch of clearer "boundary setting' as you feel as if you are just living with another roommate and you love her or him unconditionally for the sake of "Marriage". I did this and it simply didn't work. Unfortunately, there's a growing awareness that when someone had cheated once, it is likely she/he will cheat again. I already knew this without studies in my experience. The only solution is D, I'm afraid. I too, wasted many years trying to R in vain. If I had a much better understanding of cheating mechanics back then, I would have D much sooner and avoided years of suffering from internal and physical grief which ensued.

Stay strong.


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## poppyseed

SamuraiJack said:


> Wow.
> You are seriously going to therapy to save your marriage while she is SCHTOOPING another guy?
> 
> Man up! Do a 180 on her!
> She's banging someone else because she doesnt respect you and she will do this as long as you let her.
> Look at all that frosting on her lips!
> 
> Toss her ass, expose the affair and give her a taste of reality!


Liked ten times :rofl:


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## dajam

poppyseed said:


> I too, wasted many years trying to R in vain. If I had a much better understanding of cheating mechanics back then, I would have D much sooner and avoided years of suffering from internal and physical grief which ensued.
> 
> Stay strong.


Ditto, I should have moved on when my Ex was caught, I let her have the power in the relationship as I was a "nice guy" wanted to save the marriage. In hindsight I lost over 10 years of my life by not acting on it.

just a thought.


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## larry.gray

What the eff is wrong with marriage counselors anyway?

My dad finally got proof of my moms PA after she died. I damn well know that 'their' counselor had to know what was going on because my mom had many private sessions with her. Through the lens of hindsight, she was totally in the fog. My dad had no chance while there was another man in the marriage.


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## dajam

larry.gray said:


> What the eff is wrong with marriage counselors anyway?


IMHO, Greed, ego and plenty of good people looking for outside help to assist in saving their marriages. The ones I used were typically divorced and bitter. Warning signs i did not recognize at the time.


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## The Cro-Magnon

larry.gray said:


> What the eff is wrong with marriage counselors anyway?
> 
> My dad finally got proof of my moms PA after she died. I damn well know that 'their' counselor had to know what was going on because my mom had many private sessions with her. Through the lens of hindsight, she was totally in the fog. My dad had no chance while there was another man in the marriage.


During my marriage breakdown, I organized couples counselling sessions for us at THREE different places (she didn't lift a finger) ALL of them simply put all the blame on me, and enabled her to continue treating me like crap, despite her displaying nearly every red flag possible for cheating (which, post train wreck, it seems almost certainly she was, I even know who it was now).

Marriage counselling was less than useless for me, cost me alot of money, and actually made her behaviour worse because they gave her a green light and enabled every little thing she did and did not take her to task ONCE. They didn't help our "marriage" at all, unless helping to destroy it counts. The whole marriage counselling system/concept needs an overhaul. They should be reviewed, and this "assumption of impartiality" they operate under the guise of should be challenged. Counsellors should state where they stand on infidelity, etc, so their OPINION is known.

I wouldn't recommend marriage counselling to anyone the way it is now.


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## Pooh Bear

You should definitely say something.


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## Vanille

Your counselor is crap. She's cheating, wants both men, and the counselor says "lets find mutual ground"? NO!


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