# Cheaterville.com - Is reporting cheaters going too far?



## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

I am currently going through a reconciliation. When I shared my story it was suggested to report the cheater or the initiator of the affair on cheaterville. I have thought it over and am still in a little bit of a conundrum. Isn't posting that on cheaterville going too far?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

No. Its real use is to warn others. Especially in the case of friending players.


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

weightlifter said:


> No. Its real use is to warn others. Especially in the case of friending players.


I am new to all this so please excuse my ignorance. What are friending players?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

the term friending players to me conjures up an image of a person who's all friend on the outside but all player on the inside. Is that correct?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Cloaked said:


> I am currently going through a reconciliation. When I shared my story it was suggested to report the cheater or the initiator of the affair on cheaterville. I have thought it over and am still in a little bit of a conundrum. Isn't posting that on cheaterville going too far?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hell no. Before you get to (real) reconciliation you have to completely extinguish the affair. In many cases cheaterville is the best recourse the BS has to do this.


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

Philat said:


> Hell no. Before you get to (real) reconciliation you have to completely extinguish the affair. In many cases cheaterville is the best recourse the BS has to do this.


the last contact my wife is ever had with the other man was October 27th. Since then he has made several attempts to contact her each attempt has been reported to his bishop.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Cloaked said:


> the last contact my wife is ever had with the other man was October 27th. Since then he has made several attempts to contact her each attempt has been reported to his bishop.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


With respect, it appears that the bishop has been ineffectual in stopping the attempts. But if all of the OM's friends, family and coworkers knew through cheaterville...


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

What's to prevent someone from posting Cloaked's wife's name on Cheaterville.com?


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

Philat said:


> With respect, it appears that the bishop has been ineffectual in stopping the attempts. But if all of the OM's friends, family and coworkers knew through cheaterville...


Agreed. what I find a bit off is that his own wife told me or commanded me to not talk to the bishop anymore about attempts in contact. I find that very odd. I am currently writing out a story or post to post on cheaterville. I'm being careful to only post things I can prove to the information I have. Are there any recommendations for those who have posted things on there?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Google the term "how to seduce/bed a married woman"

Its sickeningly easy.

Basically meet married woman>listen to her>wedge the husband>push boundaries>bed her.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Poster gijjeffro and rdmu OM were friending players. They had inside track as friends so had a head start.


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

weightlifter said:


> Google the term "how to seduce/bed a married woman"
> 
> Its sickeningly easy.
> 
> Basically meet married woman>listen to her>wedge the husband>push boundaries>bed her.


I agree with you. When I read it I was surprised how it followed step by step what this other man was doing to a tee.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

weightlifter said:


> Poster gijjeffro and rdmu OM were friending players. They had inside track as friends so had a head start.


_Posted via Mobile Device_

so friending players are the more patient kind of players. They're the ones that are willing to wait weeks or months to get into someone's bed. 
are finding players the type of people that go only after married folk?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Personally, I feel the person you have to worry about is your spouse. If they're committed to doing the right thing, it doesn't matter what the affair partner does. If they're not committed to the right thing, they'll find someone else if their old affair partner doesn't want to play. So again, it doesn't matter what the affair partner does.

Having said that... I'd have no problems going scorched earth if he made attempted efforts to get in touch after he'd been told to screw off... I guess I'd hold it as a sword over their head. 

And I do understand the desire to punish the affair partner. But again, I think the focus has to be on e cheating spouse more than the affair partner. Punishing them might make you feel better, but tins not going to fix the marriage.

C


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Rdmus bob worked rdmus wife for 9 months.
Gijs for 6? Months. Read his thread.

These scum will often be bedding 2 to 3 women and working a like number as replacements.


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

weightlifter said:


> Rdmus bob worked rdmus wife for 9 months.
> Gijs for 6? Months. Read his thread.
> 
> These scum will often be bedding 2 to 3 women and working a like number as replacements.


Ew :-(
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

Cloaked said:


> I am currently going through a reconciliation. When I shared my story it was suggested to report the cheater or the initiator of the affair on cheaterville. I have thought it over and am still in a little bit of a conundrum. *Isn't posting that on cheaterville going too far?*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Nowhere near as far as deliberately ruining someone's family and the many lives contained therein.

If I didn't know that OW2 (she's the only one I have concrete proof of) was bat-crap crazy, I'd put her sleazy tail on there in a heart beat, nudie pics and all (yes, I'd have to blank out the naughty parts but I'd gladly pass on the originals on request). Unfortunately, she told my stbxh that she poisoned her exH's food with so much laxative that he ended up in the ER for a few days with severe dehydration. No idea if that is true, but I have a small child and I will not put my family at risk to get even with some potential bunny-boiler.

Kudos to the ones that do though. EVERYONE should know about cheaterville.com 
Great place to check out the new person you're dating, and even if there is no posting, it will show you how many times someone's name has been searched. That alone can be a sign that the person is shady.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Plus when people google their name it often comes up highly ranked.


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## johnAdams (May 22, 2013)

Believe me, I am all for revenge and getting the POSOM, but for the life of me I do not see what posting on Cheaterville would prove? Who even looks at it? How would anyone even find it? I am just not sure what it would do except possibly make the BS feel better?


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

johnAdams said:


> Believe me, I am all for revenge and getting the POSOM, but for the life of me I do not see what posting on Cheaterville would prove? Who even looks at it? How would anyone even find it? I am just not sure what it would do except possibly make the BS feel better?


The site definitely needs more exposure, although many people do that on facebook (I have seen some doozy posts that have been shared over and over).

It's not just about "feeling better". I see it as a warning sign. Letting someone know the REAL person they are either a) getting involved with or b) the people their spouses are friends with/work with. In fact, I think everyone should check out their spouses co-workers on cheaterville, especially if they talk a lot about a specific co-worker but in semi-negative terms like my stbxh did. An example of this would be to bring up that person, but then talk about their weight or their age or something like that in a negative context. My stbxh would always refer to his secretary as "old", making her seem like some spectacled, gray-haired grandma. While she was a grandmother, she was not the image he portrayed of her. Much younger and very attractive. By making her seem old and unattractive, I wasn't threatened and had no reason to suspect anything. 

I think cheaterville serves a great purpose, but as with anything, it can be abused, but that's the internet for ya.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

OP, it is important for you to realize that putting the OM on Cheaterville may result in him, or his spouse, (if he is married) putting your WW on Cheaterville in retribution. And, while your WS and her OM have earned their places on Cheaterville (so say the members of TAM,) any hardships that are incurred by your WW and her former affair partner could possibly yield negative consequences for their innocent children and spouses, as well..... Meaning, your children, the AP's children, the AP's spouse, and yourself; all innocent parties in this betrayal. 

If you are considering putting your own WW on Cheaterville, while attempting to reconcile with her, I can tell you, with a fair amount of certainty, you will likely be unsuccessful. 

While this opinion does come from a former WS, it is no less valid or accurate.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

It can be a double edged sword. I am all for exposing the affair. Don't be reckless.


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

EI said:


> OP, it is important for you to realize that putting the OM on Cheaterville may result in him, or his spouse, (if he is married) putting your WW on Cheaterville in retribution. And, while your WS and her OM have earned their places on Cheaterville (so say the members of TAM,) any hardships that are incurred by your WW and her former affair partner could possibly yield negative consequences for their innocent children and spouses, as well..... Meaning, your children, the AP's children, the AP's spouse, and yourself; all innocent parties in this betrayal.
> 
> If you are considering putting your own WW on Cheaterville, while attempting to reconcile with her, I can tell you, with a fair amount of certainty, you will likely be unsuccessful.
> 
> While this opinion does come from a former WS, it is no less valid or accurate.


it has crossed my mind that my WS might end up on their due to me posting the other man on there. that is one reason why I am reluctant to put the other man on there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

Yes, it's completely stupid imo. If someone wants to cheat they will find a way.

The site is nothing but a dirtly laundry showcase with people feeling better about themselves for letting the world know!


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

johnAdams said:


> Believe me, I am all for revenge and getting the POSOM, but for the life of me I do not see what posting on Cheaterville would prove? Who even looks at it? How would anyone even find it? I am just not sure what it would do except possibly make the BS feel better?


It isn't about revenge (at least not when used effectively). It's about blowing up ongoing affairs.


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

^^ And a database of shady people. 

I think it's a great tool, not just for exposure but as a "warning signal" if you will. I mean, we have sex offender registries, online mugshots, so why not this? Why NOT have a list of people who have been, and probably will continue to be, the kind of person who thinks nothing of putting the health and safety of "loved" ones at risk. 

Ask yourself? Would you date someone that you saw was on Cheaterville? Probably not right? Or if you did, you'd do MUCH more homework on that person than if you didn't know, right?

It serves a purpose way beyond revenge IMO.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Frankly both the WW and OM belong on Cheaterville. Exposure is the price of the crime.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

OhGeesh said:


> The site is nothing but a dirtly laundry showcase with people feeling better about themselves for letting the world know!


Frankly, there is nothing wrong with that.


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

The Middleman said:


> Frankly both the WW and OM belong on Cheaterville. Exposure is the price of the crime.


true.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

johnAdams said:


> Believe me, I am all for revenge and getting the POSOM, but for the life of me I do not see what posting on Cheaterville would prove? Who even looks at it? How would anyone even find it? I am just not sure what it would do except possibly make the BS feel better?


John, there's a person who, because he is a degree-holding, award-winning man who works with young people, is seen as a hero.

Sadly, Chris on TAM knows only too well that in reality, he is a beastly cheater who cheats on the mother/s of his children with married women.

Previously, when people searched for his name, the only references were positive ones.

Now since he was put on CheaterVille :: Don't Be the Last to Know his Cheaterville profile comes up very high on the search engine rankings and now people know he has a nasty side to him.

People do not have to search Cheaterville to find out if the person they are seeking is a cheater. Cheaterville brings that information to them!


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

That site is like reading a D rate tabloid it's for entertainment purposes only. Do you really think people are going to look there to see if the person they are dating is on it?

It's sort of silly imo.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

OhGeesh said:


> That site is like reading a D rate tabloid it's for entertainment purposes only. Do you really think people are going to look there to see if the person they are dating is on it?
> 
> It's sort of silly imo.


Former poster js091213 used cheaterville to great effect in busting his wife's affair. Most TAMers did not agree with his follow-on strategy, but his cheaterville stroke was masterful.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Cloaked said:


> Agreed. what I find a bit off is that his own wife told me or commanded me to not talk to the bishop anymore about attempts in contact. I find that very odd.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Actually, it is not weird, it happens more than people think. There are threads with notified spouses filing restraining orders and other crap. Some people just want everything to stay a secret.


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## Stronger-now (Oct 31, 2013)

The Middleman said:


> Frankly both the WW and OM belong on Cheaterville. *Exposure is the price of the crime.*


...which is nothing compared to the destruction they caused to their innocent spouse and family. Plus, if they weren't ashamed of their teenage-like behaviour with their soulmate talk, hundreds of love emails, thousands texts, sneaking behind their spouse back, secret rendezvous...why are they ashamed now? As long as the posts are based on facts and truths,...it is what really happened and who they are right? 

I am not one who went after the APs, I held my WS fully responsible for his choice. I, however, do not feel any sympathy for AP if a BS chooses to impose the consequences. For every married AP on cheaterville, there is another BS who probably wants to put your WS on there too. If you think it's okay to put your AP on cheaterville, it should be okay for the other BS to put your WS on cheaterville too. It is only fair.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

OhGeesh said:


> That site is like reading a D rate tabloid it's for entertainment purposes only. Do you really think people are going to look there to see if the person they are dating is on it?
> 
> It's sort of silly imo.


If you search for the name of TAM member Chris' POSOM on Google, the POSOM's Cheaterville link comes up as one of the top returns. Over 1.5m people have found his Cheaterville link.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

OhGeesh said:


> That site is like reading a D rate tabloid it's for entertainment purposes only. Do you really think people are going to look there to see if the person they are dating is on it?
> 
> It's sort of silly imo.


Pre affair, never... Post affair yeap! 

~sammy


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

I see nothing wrong with outing OM/OW on cheaterville as long as the post is factual. It is a consequence. Why should OM/OW skate free?

It may not be a big hit, but I'm doubt that most OM/OW would like to have their dirty little secret exposed.

I do also believe that the cheating spouse should be there as well, but I can't bring myself to do that because I don't want my boys to ever see their mother on the site. If we didn't have kids...


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Actually, it is not weird, it happens more than people think. There are threads with notified spouses filing restraining orders and other crap. Some people just want everything to stay a secret.


if this is the case. I should definitely put him on cheaterville!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

Bust an affair. Hmmm. I say sounds like too much damn work. Give them a choice and if they screw up then walk. That's if you want to try to save it, if not go straight to step 2.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Stronger-now said:


> If you think it's okay to put your AP on cheaterville, it should be okay for the other BS to put your WS on cheaterville too. It is only fair.


Never mind someone else putting my WS on Cheatersville .... I'd do it!


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

The Middleman said:


> Never mind someone else putting my WS on Cheatersville .... I'd do it!


that's the spirit!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CouldItBeSo (Mar 11, 2013)

I'm lost with all these terms. What's poster gijjeffro and rdmu OM?

Also, what's the purpose of "reporting to a bishop"?


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

CouldItBeSo said:


> I'm lost with all these terms. What's poster gijjeffro and rdmu OM?
> 
> Also, what's the purpose of "reporting to a bishop"?


"reporting to the bishop" is something I did because the person to whom had an affair with my wife is religious. And in some ways accountable to his preacher or this case a bishop. when I informed the bishop of the other man's actions the bishop wanted me to keep in touch from then on forward. This is in part that the other man is accountable to the bishop and second the other man works for the Latter day Saints Church and if it is caught doing things like this can lose his job due to the high standards of the Latter day Saint or Mormon Church.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Actually, it is not weird, it happens more than people think. There are threads with notified spouses filing restraining orders and other crap. Some people just want everything to stay a secret.


Is that a healthy response?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

I am writing up the cheaterville post. Any suggestions?
as of right now all I have is a brief description of who he is and when the Cheating took place.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Cloaked said:


> I am writing up the cheaterville post. Any suggestions?
> as of right now all I have is a brief description of who he is and when the Cheating took place.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Just stick to the facts that you know.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Cloaked said:


> Is that a healthy response?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Only the people inside the marriage know the answer. We have people on both sides who did and didn't expose. It is a personal decision, that is decided on a case by case basis and one I don't judge even when I do not agree.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

Cloaked said:


> I am writing up the cheaterville post. Any suggestions?
> as of right now all I have is a brief description of who he is and when the Cheating took place.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Are you reporting your wife as well? Or just the OM?


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

Coffee Amore said:


> Are you reporting your wife as well? Or just the OM?


Just the OM. I'll let the OM's BS post my wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

I've never visited the site so I don't really know how it works. My concern would be how does the management of the site confirm that what is posted is actually true? Since it appears the real names are used, what is to stop someone from posting false accusations in order to seek revenge against someone?

Also, it seems to me that one would be a hypocrite or worse to post the AP on that site unless they have already posted their own spouse as well. After all, your spouse is a cheater too. Doesn't society need to be protected against him/her as well?


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## dgtal (Jun 11, 2010)

Cloaked said:


> the last contact my wife is ever had with the other man was October 27th. Since then he has made several attempts to contact her each attempt has been reported to his bishop.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Reporting every attempt to bishop? Kidding?. My w posom didnt stop contacting her until I showed him I wasnt joking about a bullet hole in his head if he didnt back off
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Cloaked said:


> Agreed. what I find a bit off is that his own wife told me or commanded me to not talk to the bishop anymore about attempts in contact. I find that very odd. I am currently writing out a story or post to post on cheaterville. I'm being careful to only post things I can prove to the information I have. Are there any recommendations for those who have posted things on there?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Your gut is telling you that your wife's commands are odd. Follow them. Frankly, if my wife said or commanded anything about her A, I would ask her, do you still have feelings for the guy, because if you do there is the door.

If you plan on R, don't post your wife on cheaterville. I would recommend you post the dude, but created a new email account, and write the facts, stick to the truth.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

johnAdams said:


> Believe me, I am all for revenge and getting the POSOM, but for the life of me I do not see what posting on Cheaterville would prove? Who even looks at it? How would anyone even find it? I am just not sure what it would do except possibly make the BS feel better?


It comes up on a Google search. My ex caught Hell from the POSOM's girlfriend because of it - which shows it works.

Also, the POSOM in my ex wife's cheating is a big time "friender". Usually has 2 or 3 on the go. Always has at least one girlfriend and one he is cheating with. He's was always known for it, but now he's over 1 million hits more known for it - despite his attempts to get legal with Google.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

I find it the height of hypocrisy for someone to post their WS's AP on cheaterville but would not post their own spouse on there too. I say you either post both or post neither. To me, it's putting more blame on the AP and not nearly enough on the person who truly wronged you. JMHO.


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I find it the height of hypocrisy for someone to post their WS's AP on cheaterville but would not post their own spouse on there too. I say you either post both or post neither. To me, it's putting more blame on the AP and not nearly enough on the person who truly wronged you. JMHO.


I have thought about that. The OM was the initiator of the affair. Before my wife had got caught with his hooks he suggested for him to meet her at my place.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

Thorburn said:


> Your gut is telling you that your wife's commands are odd. Follow them. Frankly, if my wife said or commanded anything about her A, I would ask her, do you still have feelings for the guy, because if you do there is the door.
> 
> If you plan on R, don't post your wife on cheaterville. I would recommend you post the dude, but created a new email account, and write the facts, stick to the truth.


It was the OM's wife who ordered me. Not mine.
_Posted via Telepathy booyah!!!!_


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Cloaked said:


> I have thought about that. The OM was the initiator of the affair. Before my wife had got caught with his hooks he suggested for him to meet her at my place.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ahhh the initiator argument, you'll never know who started what, they were both wrong.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I find it the height of hypocrisy for someone to post their WS's AP on cheaterville but would not post their own spouse on there too. I say you either post both or post neither. To me, it's putting more blame on the AP and not nearly enough on the person who truly wronged you. JMHO.


Bullsh!t! The height of hypocrisy would be the BS crying foul if the other BS put his/her WS on CV _after_ putting the AP up. 

JMHO as well.


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Ahhh the initiator argument, you'll never know who started what, they were both wrong.


agreed. I came to the conclusion according to what I've read.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I find it the height of hypocrisy for someone to post their WS's AP on cheaterville but would not post their own spouse on there too. I say you either post both or post neither. To me, it's putting more blame on the AP and not nearly enough on the person who truly wronged you. JMHO.


I don't. I can see why they'd do it that way.

Put the POSOM on. Yep. Put the mother of your children on? Maybe that's not so cool.

And if you still love your wife? Well, you hate POSOM, but do not hate your wife, that'd be, IMO, enough of a reason to out the POSOM and not your wife.


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## Singledude21 (Feb 21, 2013)

I know women and men get upset at the other person, its understandable. But imo, unless its someone who had a direct relationship to you, you shouldn't put much focus into why THEY did it, they aren't your spouse they cheated. Not everyone is gonna deny something just because it belongs to someone else. It's your spouses responsibility to never offer it.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I find it the height of hypocrisy for someone to post their WS's AP on cheaterville but would not post their own spouse on there too. I say you either post both or post neither. To me, it's putting more blame on the AP and not nearly enough on the person who truly wronged you. JMHO.


:iagree::iagree:
This is so true.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Singledude21 said:


> I know women and men get upset at the other person, its understandable. But imo, unless its someone who had a direct relationship to you, you shouldn't put much focus into why THEY did it, they aren't your spouse they cheated. Not everyone is gonna deny something just because it belongs to someone else. It's your spouses responsibility to never offer it.


Yes, it's the spouse's responsibility - no one here said it wasn't. The point is the interloper - the player - isn't faultless and should be held to account. 

It's like saying a burglar bears no responsibility because you left a door unlocked.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

walkonmars said:


> Yes, it's the spouse's responsibility - no one here said it wasn't. The point is the interloper - the player - isn't faultless and should be held to account.
> 
> It's like saying a burglar bears no responsibility because you left a door unlocked.


:iagree:


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

walkonmars said:


> Yes, it's the spouse's responsibility - no one here said it wasn't. The point is the interloper - the player - isn't faultless and should be held to account.
> 
> It's like saying a burglar bears no responsibility because you left a door unlocked.


No question the "interloper is culpable and needs to pay for his/her crime, but what is totally hypocritical is the BS's reluctance to hold their WS equally accountable by posting and shaming them as well. It's the price they need to pay because they are totally responsible for the BS's pain.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> No question the "interloper is culpable and needs to pay for his/her crime, but what is totally hypocritical is the BS's reluctance to hold their WS equally accountable by posting and shaming them as well. It's the price they need to pay because they are totally responsible for the BS's pain.


Oh, they're held accountable, just in a different way. And for the record, if CV had existed back when I went through my crap, I would've definitely put her on there as well as POSOM. But if my goal had been to attempt recovery, then that would've been counter productive to my wishes. But rest assured, I sure as hell wouldn't cry foul if someone that was hurt by her did. That's the price you pay to play.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

3putt said:


> Bullsh!t! The height of hypocrisy would be the BS crying foul if the other BS put his/her WS on CV _after_ putting the AP up.
> 
> JMHO as well.


The issue becomes you are focusing too much energy on the AP and not enough energy where it truly belongs - the WS. Who did the most damage to the BS? Was it the AP or the WS? Of course it was the WS. However, many on here claim to want to destroy the AP while they reconcile with their WS. The reasoning is "I don't want to see the AP get away with it". If you reconcile with your WS, the he/she DID get away with it. 

The only way you can hold a WS accountable for his/her actions is to divorce. If you stay together, then that action alone indicates the WS gets away with cheating.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> The issue becomes you are focusing too much energy on the AP and not enough energy where it truly belongs - the WS. Who did the most damage to the BS? Was it the AP or the WS? Of course it was the WS. However, many on here claim to want to destroy the AP while they reconcile with their WS. The reasoning is "I don't want to see the AP get away with it". If you reconcile with your WS, the he/she DID get away with it.
> 
> The only way you can hold a WS accountable for his/her actions is to divorce. If you stay together, then that action alone indicates the WS gets away with cheating.


OK, everyone, let's back up a little. Cheaterville isn't, or shouldn't be, about sowing shame and scandal for their own sakes or for revenge or to even the score. It's to stop affairs dead in their tracks and take positive action to dissipate the WS's fog. Why? To maximize the chances for successful R. It's not clear that OP's W is still fogged in, but the fact that the OM keeps contacting her shows that some remnant of the A is still alive. Cheaterville will kill it.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> The issue becomes you are focusing too much energy on the AP and not enough energy where it truly belongs - the WS. Who did the most damage to the BS? Was it the AP or the WS? Of course it was the WS. However, many on here claim to want to destroy the AP while they reconcile with their WS. The reasoning is "I don't want to see the AP get away with it". If you reconcile with your WS, the he/she DID get away with it.
> 
> *The only way you can hold a WS accountable for his/her actions is to divorce. If you stay together, then that action alone indicates the WS gets away with cheating.*


So how were YOU held accountable? Or did YOU just get away with it?

I'm not sure if others are aware, but let's not forget; YOU were a WS yourself, and I do believe that influences your stance on accountability for the waywards.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Philat said:


> OK, everyone, let's back up a little. Cheaterville isn't, or shouldn't be, about sowing shame and scandal for their own sakes or for revenge or to even the score. It's to stop affairs dead in their tracks and take positive action to dissipate the WS's fog. Why? To maximize the chances for successful R. It's not clear that OP's W is still fogged in, but the fact that the OM keeps contacting her shows that some remnant of the A is still alive. Cheaterville will kill it.


But that is exactly what CV is in practice. Many people crow about this very fact while trying to reconcile and "hysterically bond". I don't understand how you can sew the scarlet letter on one person to the exclusion of the other. Let's get real and call CV what it really is: an electronic scarlet letter that is forever there for all to see.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

3putt said:


> So how were YOU held accountable? Or did YOU just get away with it?
> 
> I'm not sure if others are aware, but let's not forget; YOU were a WS yourself, and I do believe that influences your stance on accountability for the waywards.


I am not a WS... I'm happily married.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

3putt said:


> But if my goal had been to attempt recovery, then that would've been counter productive to my wishes. But rest assured, I sure as hell wouldn't cry foul if someone that was hurt by her did. That's the price you pay to play.


I'm going to disagree with the statement that it's counter productive. Are you saying that it's counter productive to humiliate a WS after they perpetrated the ultimate humiliation on their BS? Just because the BS wants to reconcile and not offend their WS? Yet it's wonderful if some else does it? That goes beyond hypocrisy, it almost seems cowardice on the part of the BS (statement not aimed at you). I'm sorry but I think the BS needs to be the one to humiliate the WS and say "OK, now you know how it feels .... still want to stay with me?"


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> I'm going to disagree with the statement that it's counter productive. Are you saying that it's counter productive to humiliate a WS after they perpetrated the ultimate humiliation on their BS? Just because the BS wants to reconcile and not offend their WS? Yet it's wonderful if some else does it? That goes beyond hypocrisy, it almost seems cowardice on the part of the BS (statement not aimed at you). I'm sorry but I think the BS needs to be the one to humiliate the WS and say "OK, now you know how it feels .... still want to stay with me?"


In an ongoing fashion such as CV, yes I do believe it's counter productive. Assuming that all her deeds have been laid bare in front of family, friends, clergy, etc. (in accordance with full nuclear exposure), would you not agree that THAT is humiliating enough for any WS that shows true remorse?


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I am not a WS... I'm happily married.


You are now, but you were a WS before. Right or wrong? EA if I'm not mistaken.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

3putt said:


> You are now, but you were a WS before. Right or wrong? EA if I'm not mistaken.


Wrong. Never cheated in my life.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> But that is exactly what CV is in practice. Many people crow about this very fact while trying to reconcile and "hysterically bond". I don't understand how you can sew the scarlet letter on one person to the exclusion of the other. Let's get real and call CV what it really is: an electronic scarlet letter that is forever there for all to see.


The problem is many couples that are damaged by infidelity want to reconcile. Putting your spouse up on CV is not going to help that along. If anything it will just soil your chances.

An additional problem is many couples have children. You aren't being a great parent if you trash your children's mother or father on the internet now are you? Children can read and use google for goodness sakes.

If your spouse cheats, and leaves, and you have no further association with them, that's a whole other story...

But that's just one of several scenarios here : 

a. want to reconcile and have children
b. want to reconcile and have no children
c. do not want to reconcile, but do have children
d. do not want to reconcile, and have no children

Scenario d appears to be the only one where CV may be practical out of the four scenarios listed above.

The other issue is you putting even the AP up on CV may prompt them to trash your wife on CV in retaliation.

Again, unless you are in scenario D I don't see the point of putting AP or Wayward up on CV.

When putting something like this up on the internet, CV, facebook or anywhere, it's best to ask yourself these three things : 

a. what goal are you are hoping to accomplish?
b. what is the likelihood posting dirty laundry to the internet will accomplish that goal?
c. what adverse results may arise from doing this, even if you meet your A goal?

I do agree that during an affair that you can't put a stop to, then CV may be effective. I also agree that after an affair, if you are in scenario D, CV may be effective in warning others (assuming that's the goal there).

Heck, headhunters and other recruiters will google people before they interview them just to see what comes up.

You want your wife or husband to be terminally unemployed?

That affects your children's financial welfare as well.

For most scenarios, CV is not a good idea given the potential damage this may do to your reconciliation goals and to your children.

Heck, some employers may turn YOUR job application away simply because YOU decided to air dirty laundry in public. People who's public image is important to their financial well being need to avoid posting anything to CV in my opinion. Too much backfire potential there.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Wrong. Never cheated in my life.


Then I offer an apology. I must have you confused with someone else.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

3putt said:


> Assuming that all her deeds have been laid bare in front of family, friends, clergy, etc. (in accordance with full nuclear exposure), would you not agree that THAT is humiliating enough for any WS that shows true remorse?


Maybe. At least for me, maybe. It depends on the BS's personality. I'm the kind of guy that requires payback.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

The Middleman said:


> Maybe. At least for me, maybe. It depends on the BS's personality. I'm the kind of guy that requires payback.


Humiliate your spouse you want to reconcile with in order to get "payback?"

I fail to understand the logic here...


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> Maybe. At least for me, maybe. It depends on the BS's personality. I'm the kind of guy that requires payback.


'Payback' can take many forms, and needs to for the different parties involved. You can't be relentless with the one you are trying to recover with if that is your goal. You just can't, and CV is the gift that can keep on giving. However, the other character deserves no quarter as far as I'm concerned.

I understand where you're coming from. You're just not looking at it from a recovery minded standpoint.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Allen_A said:


> Humiliate your spouse you want to reconcile with in order to get "payback?"
> 
> 
> 
> I fail to understand the logic here...



My sense of self respect won't allow me to take her back after she willfully humiliated me by becoming a sperm bank for another guy without getting some form of retribution. Actually, I would never reconcile after a physical betrayal anyway so this is just a hypothetical discussion.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

3putt said:


> You're just not looking at it from a recovery minded standpoint.


You're right.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Allen_A said:


> I do agree that during an affair that you can't put a stop to, then CV may be effective.


My questions is why you would want to "save the marriage" with someone you have take those measures with to stop the affair. If they don't stay with you because they want to, I don't think youre going to be very successful nor will you have a viable, let alone satisfying, marriage.
On your other point, if someone put me on Cheaterville, I can assure them that their wife would end up right next to me. That eye for an eye door swings both ways.


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## Singledude21 (Feb 21, 2013)

walkonmars said:


> It's like saying a burglar bears no responsibility because you left a door unlocked.


Not the same because 9 times out of 10, that unlocked door was done on accident. You don't cheat on accident. And in the 10% chance you left it open on purpose, you deserve to get your ass robbed.

Cheating ain't no damn accident. You can't go and accidently forget to leave your legs closed. BS folks here hate to admit it but its true. If that guy don't do it, someone else will. So imo, it don't matter what sleeze ball did, its the fact the spouse even allowed it is why you're in this situation.

Don't matter if this guy gave me the gun and bullets, why the hell did I pull the trigger?


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> Maybe. At least for me, maybe. It depends on the BS's personality. I'm the kind of guy that requires payback.


Look how strong Walt was in the other thread.
He didn't care what family thought it was the truth.

Can't people realize actions have consequences.
Now Walt's w respect's him more than ever.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Singledude21 said:


> Not the same because 9 times out of 10, that unlocked door was done on accident. You don't cheat on accident. And in the 10% chance you left it open on purpose, you deserve to get your ass robbed.
> 
> Cheating ain't no damn accident. You can't go and accidently forget to leave your legs closed. BS folks here hate to admit it but its true. If that guy don't do it, someone else will. So imo, it don't matter what sleeze ball did, its the fact the spouse even allowed it is why you're in this situation.
> 
> Don't matter if this guy gave me the gun and bullets, why the hell did I pull the trigger?


Fair warning. There are certain ingrained beliefs on this forum that cannot be questioned without the questioner receiving heaps of scorn. As you can see, a number of WS's in the threads you'll read on here were perfectly fine people in great marriages who just so happened to be targeted by predators who worked day and night to get the WS to succumb to the AP's advances. I'm not saying all or even most people believe that is the case, but there are enough of them floating about that are loud and more than happy to point out how wrong or "dumb" you are...


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Singledude21 said:


> Not the same because 9 times out of 10, that unlocked door was done on accident. You don't cheat on accident. And in the 10% chance you left it open on purpose, you deserve to get your ass robbed.


You are missing the point.

The point being that "a burglar bears no responsibility because you left a door unlocked."

You completely deflected the fact that someone burgled your home. That is the point that's being made here.

No one disagrees that the wayward bears responsibility. There are a handful of people on here that do indeed insist on deflecting the AP's involvement to the point of even giving them a complete free pass.

It makes no sense to me, but there you have it.

All I can say is if any man gets cheated on, ends up divorced, and gives the AP a free pass that dude can stay away from my wife. Because he clearly does not think AP's need to keep away from married women. He's a loaded weapon now that he's divorced too. He didn't think OM was at fault, he won't think he is either. He will do it to someone else just like they did it to him.

And he won't even feel a shred of remorse.


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## Singledude21 (Feb 21, 2013)

Allen_A said:


> And he won't even feel a shred of remorse.


Exactly, which is why you shouldn't even involve your time and energy in the *******. Now if you meet them on the street that's differnet, feel free to start that ass whoopin.

But wasting energy to look up their info, put them on blast in the internet and worry about potential lawsuits even if you DIDN'T do anything illegal is just not worth it to me. Let the scum be scum, and away from your mind. Unless of course you actually KNOW and talk to the person. That's different and they deserve blame as well.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Singledude21 said:


> Exactly, which is why you shouldn't even involve your time and energy in the *******. Now if you meet them on the street that's differnet, feel free to start that ass whoopin.
> 
> But wasting energy to look up their info, put them on blast in the internet and worry about potential lawsuits even if you DIDN'T do anything illegal is just not worth it to me. Let the scum be scum, and away from your mind.


I am talking about a betrayed spouse that will just go and violate someone else's marriage.

Maybe I didn't write that very clearly.. it's getting late and I am way tired.


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## Singledude21 (Feb 21, 2013)

Allen_A said:


> I am talking about a betrayed spouse that will just go and violate someone else's marriage.
> 
> Maybe I didn't write that very clearly.. it's getting late and I am way tired.


Oh...well yea that's wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right, but angry people don't think rational. And if the OM is married, he's at fault for killing his own marriage moreso than the other one.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Singledude21 said:


> Oh...well yea that's wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right, but angry people don't think rational. And if the OM is married, he's at fault for killing his own marriage moreso than the other one.


I really don't see it that way, but that's just me.

I don't see the point in giving single affair partner's any slack. But many here do.

I don't think I will ever understand it. It just means that those people giving affair partner's slack are potentially dangerous if/when the are single too.

If you will tolerate a third party else violating your own marriage, you will most certainly violate a marriage yourself.


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## Singledude21 (Feb 21, 2013)

Allen_A said:


> If you will tolerate a third party else violating your own marriage, you will most certainly violate a marriage yourself.


For me, this is where character comes in. If you have the character, you will do what you think is right no matter what another did.

Just cause some idiot didn't have restraint and grabbed the purse off the ground doesn't mean I have to grab one too. Because I know better.


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## Stronger-now (Oct 31, 2013)

Allen_A said:


> I really don't see it that way, but that's just me.
> 
> I don't see the point in giving single affair partner's any slack. But many here do.
> 
> ...


I don't understand your logic and how you came to this conclusion. 

I am one of "those people" who hold my WS fully responsible for his affair. You see, I don't think my WS was a naive person, victimised by predatory other women. I give his intelligence more credit than that. After all, I was attracted to him once. I wouldn't be if he was silly and stupid. I don't think the other women "stole" anything from me. They took nothing that he didn't willingly give them. I served him his consequences, he didn't even get a chance to say goodbye to me. I don't see the other women as the problem to my marriage and my life, he was.

I don't see that as "cutting the AP any slack," because to me they are a non-factor in my life. They are all strangers to me. I call it as being realistic with life. There are people who don't have the same moral standards, and I don't want to be bitter over something I can't control. The world will not change just because I scream, kick and curse all the APs in this world. All I can control is to refuse to settle for a cheating spouse and be more careful in the future. I have enough problems to deal with, I don't think it's my responsibility to teach and parent strangers with loose morals. 

If I chase away one other woman, if I do all the tricks on here to end one affair, it would be just a patch to the real problem: the cheating spouse. Plus, if you have to go through length just to stop your WS's affair, aren't you gonna question their true intention of staying? Are they really remorseful if you need to convince them why staying with you is the best? I have a problem being my spouse's or anyone's option. Big, big problem. Maybe it appears that I have a huge ego, but I suspect it's more about self-respect than just an ego.

Finally, I think there is a disconnect in your logic. Just because I accept that others do not see life as I do, do not have my moral standards, I am potentially just like them???? It is contradictory, isn't it?


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## Stronger-now (Oct 31, 2013)

The Middleman said:


> Never mind someone else putting my WS on Cheatersville .... I'd do it!


Respect.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Allen_A said:


> I really don't see it that way, but that's just me.
> 
> I don't see the point in giving single affair partner's any slack. But many here do.
> 
> ...


So you are saying that people who are capable of forgiving a cheating spouse will then go on to become cheaters, themselves? 

That's crazy talk. And rather insulting to all the people on TAM who have forgiven their FWS.


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

I will say this about cheaterville - I was skeptical - did not want to do it BUT listened to everyone here. So I reluctantly did it - put both AP and OP on it. Now before this I heard rumors they were walking around publicly together and being lovey dovey - then it went underground. Cheaterville made them go underground - which is only fair because that is where dishonesty and immoral acts belong...underground.

I still questioned it - I worried about my kids and took it down. But it was already out. Then after I saw her after 18 months of not seeing her the ONLY thing she mentioned - No Apologies, No "I am sorry", No "I hope you are doing well" - THE only thing she mentioned was "Why did you put my OP on cheaterville? that was a dirty rotten trick!" That's THE only thing she mentioned...so I don't know but there is SOMETHING to cheaterville and SOMETHING to exposure....In short, it works.


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## davecarter (Aug 15, 2013)

weightlifter said:


> Rdmus bob worked rdmus wife for 9 months.
> Gijs for 6? Months. Read his thread.
> 
> These scum will often be bedding 2 to 3 women and working a like number as replacements.


Unfortunately, neither of these friend-player-OM's were actually posted on Cheaterville.....

Were they, WL?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

davecarter said:


> Unfortunately, neither of these friend-player-OM's were actually posted on Cheaterville.....
> 
> Were they, WL?


How do we know, for sure? They might already be there.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Fair warning. There are certain ingrained beliefs on this forum that cannot be questioned without the questioner receiving heaps of scorn. As you can see, a number of WS's in the threads you'll read on here were perfectly fine people in great marriages who just so happened to be targeted by predators who worked day and night to get the WS to succumb to the AP's advances. I'm not saying all or even most people believe that is the case, but there are enough of them floating about that are loud and more than happy to point out how wrong or "dumb" you are...


Just thinking to myself: It is amazing how many different threads in CWI get sidetracked to this particular point of contention (the culpability of the AP). I agree with Plan9 that one's attitude in this issue stems from some kind of hard-wiring: the argument is insoluble, IMO. I tried to engage in the big discussion on this that took place in Men's Clubhouse a while back, but just got exhausted.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Philat said:


> Just thinking to myself: It is amazing how many different threads in CWI get sidetracked to this particular point of contention (the culpability of the AP). I agree with Plan9 that one's attitude in this issue stems from some kind of hard-wiring: the argument is insoluble, IMO. I tried to engage in the big discussion on this that took place in Men's Clubhouse a while back, but just got exhausted.


The AP is to blame. The WS is to blame. The BS is not to blame.

The exact balance of the blame will, I am sure, vary depending on the situation. Ultimately, if the WS did not cheat then there would be no problem.

I, as many of us, have been tempted but always said "no". The women whom tried to tempt me would have been to blame to an extent had I "caved in".

There are some whom believe this to be wrong and try to ascribe blame to the WS too. You tend to find that these posters have no experience of infidelity as a cheated partner - often they have experience as the cheater.

My view, perhaps a naive one, is that only those that have been cheated can understand this. After all, if you have been betrayed you have certainly had a relationship where you weren't betrayed *and* a relationship where you were.

As a betrayed spouse, therefore, you have both perspectives. Those that post with no experience only have one perspective. I remember my opinions before being cheated on and understand why I held them. I know my opinions now and understand why I hold those.

Having seen both sides of the coin, I have real life and deeply understood evidence to back up my opinion. Those that have not been cheated on do not.

As far as how this affects posting on Cheaterville, the same logic applies.

Whereas those that have not been cheated on may have a valid place in this forum, I wonder at their need to pronounce on these issues and, often by extension, insult a large proportion of the people whom use this forum in seeking help from others who have experienced this life changing event.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Chris989 said:


> The AP is to blame. The WS is to blame. The BS is not to blame.
> 
> The exact balance of the blame will, I am sure, vary depending on the situation. Ultimately, if the WS did not cheat then there would be no problem.
> 
> ...


Chris: I happen to agree with all of this, but have reached the conclusion that you cannot convincingly argue the case to those who think otherwise.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> So you are saying that people who are capable of forgiving a cheating spouse will then go on to become cheaters, themselves?
> 
> That's crazy talk. And rather insulting to all the people on TAM who have forgiven their FWS.


No, that's not what I said.

I said that anyone who can overlook an AP violating their marriage is at risk of violating a marriage themselves when single.

If you are going to cut an AP slack, that means you will behave the same way after divorce.

If your reasoning is "well, the AP is a non-entity, my spouse is to blame" you, after divorce, become one of those non-entities and will violate marriages without remorse yourself.

If you don't' think that AP's are doing anything wrong, then what's stopping you from doing that yourself?

It's not character or ethics, as I just said you believe that the AP is doing nothing wrong. Your attitude, as a now single person is "well, if the married woman wants to give it to me, I will take it. SHE is at fault, not ME." That's how the "no-fault" logic translates into the single life. "I didn't take vows, so I can mount anyone I want with impunity just like a AP."

_Either you hold the AP accountable as much as your spouse, or you will not hold yourself accountable post divorce. You let the AP off the hook? Then you will violate marriage after marriage yourself, expecting betrayed spouses to let YOU Off the hook too._

THAT is what I said. I do apologize, it's hard to explain it.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Chris989 said:


> The AP is to blame. The WS is to blame. The BS is not to blame.
> 
> The exact balance of the blame will, I am sure, vary depending on the situation. Ultimately, if the WS did not cheat then there would be no problem.


As I have said dozens of times now, BOTH the AP and the wayward are cheating. They are both lying, they are both sneaking around, they are both cheating. They cheat the betrayed spouse out of what may have been a healthy marriage. Both of them do this - together. Partner's in crime.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Chris989 said:


> Ultimately, if the WS did not cheat then there would be no problem.


If the AP hits on your spouse, but your spouse shuts them down, there IS still a problem out there... A grown adult that hits on married men/women is a problem.

Maybe not for you, if your spouse shuts them down, but that's a rather selfish attitude to take.

Just because someone fails to break into YOUR car, does not mean there is no problem... there is still a car thief out there looking for a car to steal.

That IS a problem.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Allen_A said:


> As I have said dozens of times now, BOTH the AP and the wayward are cheating. They are both lying, they are both sneaking around, they are both cheating. They cheat the betrayed spouse out of what may have been a healthy marriage. Both of them do this - together. Partner's in crime.


:iagree:


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

Allen_A said:


> No, that's not what I said.
> 
> I said that anyone who can overlook an AP violating their marriage is at risk of violating a marriage themselves when single.
> 
> ...


It's not that your having difficulty explaining it, it's that it makes no sense. If putting more blame on the AP makes it easier to reconcile with your wife then go for it. Others do not see it that way. They feel that despite thousands of degenerates out there who would willfully pursue a married person, the one person who could have stopped the whole thing before it stared was their spouse. I tend to agree with this POV. 

Don't turn this into a battle of extremes. I don't see very many people here arguing that the AP is without blame, just that their spouse is the main point of focus. As it should be. I can only be betrayed by somone in my confidence. The AP can injure me, but only my spouse can betray me. There's a big difference.

To say that someone who holds his/her spouse to a higher standard than some scumbag off the street equates to a high probability that they will become the next scumbag AP is completely ridiculous. What does seem to be a high probability is that the BS who reconciles with a cheating spouse will likely be betrayed again by that same spouse. Especially if the BS decides to focus the bulk of the blame on the AP. even equal blame. 

Someone used a home burglary as an analogy. It's not correct. If the house could actually call the burglars, unlock itself, invite them in and then willingly hand over all the valuables, then you would have a valid analogy. If this were possible, where would you spend the bulk of your response time? Putting those thieves in jail while the house sits there looking for the next burglars to invite in or would you straighten out the house to prevent anyone from getting in again? Me, I would move.


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## davecarter (Aug 15, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> How do we know, for sure? They might already be there.


I'm betting at least one of those OMs will _never _be posted on Cheaterville...


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

zookeeper said:


> To say that someone who holds his/her spouse to a higher standard than some scumbag off the street equates to a high probability that they will become the next scumbag AP is completely ridiculous. What does seem to be a high probability is that the BS who reconciles with a cheating spouse will likely be betrayed again by that same spouse. Especially if the BS decides to focus the bulk of the blame on the AP. even equal blame.


That's not what I said. What I said is if you give the AP a free pass, which some here do, there's no logical reason to think you would do differently yourself in their situation. And post-divorce that is exactly the situation you will be in.

In my opinion the degree to which you hold the AP accountable is indicative of how you can be expected to behave yourself towards marriage as a single person : if you think the AP is not accountable much at all, you will violate marriages without regret yourself. If you hold the AP accountable equal to your wife, you will more likely conduct yourself like an adult when you are single as well.

I am arguing for the case where the AP's involvement is regarded as trivial or even a non-entity. You are applying my argument to a whole other scenario where the AP is simply held to some degree less accountable than the wayward.

In my opinion both AP and the wayward are cheaters, both are accountable. The challenge is navigating reconciliation while holding your spouse equally accountable for the affair to the AP. That's not easy.



zookeeper said:


> Someone used a home burglary as an analogy. It's not correct. If the house could actually call the burglars, unlock itself, invite them in and then willingly hand over all the valuables, then you would have a valid analogy.


It is a correct analogy, but like most analogies it will break down when taken out of the context from which it was presented. That's why argument by analogy is not an effective argument. It is, however, illustrative. You are simply taking that analogy and putting it into a different context.

No one is suggesting their home got burgled, but there is significant overlap with that activity which is the point they are making there.



zookeeper said:


> If this were possible, where would you spend the bulk of your response time? Putting those thieves in jail while the house sits there looking for the next burglars to invite in or would you straighten out the house to prevent anyone from getting in again? Me, I would move.


I would be moving/securing my home AND I would be calling the authorities to have the burglar thrown in jail. I would not neglect EITHER responsibility.

The idea of letting the AP off the hook is what is making no sense. And I have read multiple posts from people who more or less do just that.

I do think that infidelity varies considerably. In each case the amount of responsibility can vary quite a bit dependent on how much information and misinformation is shared. Some women dont' even know they are dating a married man. That cannot be put on the same level as a female that willingly violates marriage after marriage, time and time again without the slightest remorse.

This fact, that the accountability varies considerably given the context, is why this is often such a damn contentious issue. People generalize infidelity into a one-size fits all scenario and then people argue from different contexts without clarifying it in their argument. Confusion ensues...


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Let me try to put this more succinctly : 

If you don't think the AP is a problem, then you, post divorce, wont' think that you are the problem either.

If you don't think men hitting on and sleeping with your wife are a problem, then that indicates you won't hesitate to do the same yourself, post divorce.

I am not suggesting that the AP is the only problem. I am not suggesting letting the wayward off the hook.

I address a specific line of thought : 

_The AP is not a problem, the wayward is the problem._

I suggest the reasoning above is flawed and dangerous.

This argument is subject to gradation : 

_The degree to which dismiss the AP's involvement is parallel to the degree to which you will dismiss your involvement in someone else's marriage post divorce.
_

Some men here don't think other men hitting on their spouse is a problem : I do.

If you don't think the AP is part of the problem, then faced with the same dilemma, you won't think you are a problem either. You will bed someone's wife without restraint until she breaks it off.

Disturbing, but true.

It's that logical and that simple.

It is that specific thought process that I find quite distressing.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

If my wife ever got in a situation where so guy didn't bow out, and became an pest, after she let him know she wasn't interested, I'd step into the picture. I teach college and had a number of women let me know they are interest in more than the course material. I've never had my wife having to step in and protect me from bedding these chicks. If it ever gets to the point where she has to get between me and the woman to keep me in line, its a lost cause.


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

Allen_A said:


> Let me try to put this more succinctly :
> 
> If you don't think the AP is a problem, then you, post divorce, wont' think that you are the problem either.
> 
> ...


You don't have to keep trying to explain it. Change the words around as much as you want, it doesn't change the fact that I think you are flat-out wrong. I see no cohesive argument to make the impossible leap that someone who holds their spouse to a higher standard than the AP will suddenly lose all their character and integrity and have the desire to start an affair of their own with a married person. It just absolutely, positively does not make sense. 

Here's one for you. I don't smoke weed. Never did. My wife has agreed to the same. So in your world, if my wife starts smoking weed and I decide that she is is more my problem than the dealer I guess it means I will inevitably start smoking and dealing weed? 

I'll say this one last time. I do not hold the AP as harmless or blameless. I would simply hold my wife accountable first and foremost because she is the one that directly betrayed me. I would make sure the AP gets what's coming to him, but my wife os the one who would receive the lion's share of my ire. She looked me in the eye on my wedding day and promised to be faithful and true. I have worked my soul bare to provide her with a good life. Not the OM. Again, he is not off the hook but she is the house on fire. Get it yet? Why the suggestion that only one extreme or the other must be true? If I hold my spouse to a higher standard than some swinging **** it means I give him a free pass? Where does this gross misinterpretation come from? 

I am fortunate that I do not fear my wife cheating. We have plenty of problems, but infidelity is not one of them. I've experienced betrayal in the distant past and won't ever tolerate it again. So has she. We both have character and integrity. Temptation doesn't worry me. Out of mutual respect we practice the singe most effective means to prevent succumbing to temptation in a weak, vulnerable moment. We completely avoid inappropriate situations/relationships with the opposite sex. I don't have to worry about some meathead hitting on my wife in a singles bar because she doesn't go to them. Neither do I. She doesn't have to be concerned that ill end up I an EA with a female coworker because I don't share any level of intimacy with a woman who isn't my wife. It really is that simple. People who put themselves in such situations have made numerous conscious choices to get there. No man suddenly wakes up in shock to find his penis inside another woman. He chose to dismiss each and every warning sign. They may have even spurred him on.

I'm not looking to have an argument with you. I suspect that you and I actually agree on a lot more than this exchange would indicate. I just do not see how you can make this assertion that whatever way a BS treats the AP will fundamentally change their honor and integrity. I don't need you to try to explain it to me again. I simply disagree. 




I would also like to point out that none of the pro-Cheaterville people have addressed how the website verifies that the allegations are true. Is that because they don't? I'm not sure how they could. It seems like a system that is just begging for abuse. If someone wants to post the AP there for revenge, fine by me. Just be honest and don't sing the BS tune that its some altruistic effort to protect others. And also have the guts to post your own spouse as well.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

zookeeper said:


> I would also like to point out that none of the pro-Cheaterville people have addressed how the website verifies that the allegations are true. Is that because they don't? I'm not sure how they could. It seems like a system that is just begging for abuse. If someone wants to post the AP there for revenge, fine by me. Just be honest and don't sing the BS tune that its some altruistic effort to protect others. And also have the guts to post your own spouse as well.


You could simply check on Cheaterville? 

However, as a "pro Cheaterville" person, I can confirm that Cheaterville make no effort to check on the veracity of a post.

Believe it or not, there is an element of altruism mixed with the revenge although who on Earth are you to question my motives?

I haven't posted my ex wife because she is the mother of my children and Cheaterville works.

If someone else posted her it wouldn't particularly bother me, but why would I willingly cause any more distress to 2 children whom have already been through a terrible time over the last 18 months?

edit/ I didn't "fear my wife cheating" either. Few of "us" did.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

zookeeper said:


> You don't have to keep trying to explain it. Change the words around as much as you want, it doesn't change the fact that I think you are flat-out wrong. I see no cohesive argument to make the impossible leap that someone who holds their spouse to a higher standard than the AP will suddenly lose all their character and integrity and have the desire to start an affair of their own with a married person. It just absolutely, positively does not make sense.


That is *not* what I wrote, that is *not* what I said, that is *not* the point I am making. You need to re-read what I wrote rather than skimming it.

You are arguing a straw man.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Chris989 said:


> You could simply check on Cheaterville?
> 
> However, as a "pro Cheaterville" person, I can confirm that Cheaterville make no effort to check on the veracity of a post.
> 
> ...


The fact that Awful Cheater (name changed to protect the ignorant!) has whined to search engines to take the result down (hasn't worked out for him, as it happens) shows that Cheaterville can work.

He has had 1,561,686 hits on his profile. Or lowfile...


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

Chris989 said:


> You could simply check on Cheaterville?


No thanks. I'll let the experts here school me on it. I'm wondering how many even considered that half of the stuff posted there might be partially or even completely false.




Chris989 said:


> Believe it or not, there is an element of altruism mixed with the revenge although who on Earth are you to question my motives?
> 
> I haven't posted my ex wife because she is the mother of my children and Cheaterville works.


. 

It's either the right thing to do or it's not. Don't you have some obligation to protect the next BS who falls victim to your ex-wife? 




Chris989 said:


> If someone else posted her it wouldn't particularly bother me, but why would I willingly cause any more distress to 2 children whom have already been through a terrible time over the last 18 months?
> 
> edit/ I didn't "fear my wife cheating" either. Few of "us" did.


Doesn't sound like you think the AP's wife and children deserved similar quarter. I'm guessing it wasn't a Disney vacation for them either. 

If my wife cheats, she's out the door. Period. She knows this. I won't live my life in fear. Her actions speak louder than any words.


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

Allen_A said:


> That is *not* what I wrote, that is *not* what I said, that is *not* the point I am making. You need to re-read what I wrote rather than skimming it.
> 
> You are arguing a straw man.


I'll let your own words in this thread stand for themselves. I think you've been pretty clear about your opinion.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

zookeeper said:


> I'll let your own words in this thread stand for themselves. I think you've been pretty clear about your opinion.


And I would guess about 90% of us men that have been betrayed agree with those words.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

zookeeper said:


> No thanks. I'll let the experts here school me on it. I'm wondering how many even considered that half of the stuff posted there might be partially or even completely false.
> 
> 
> .
> ...


I believe the details were shared with Mr Cheater's then GF.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Allen_A said:


> That is *not* what I wrote, that is *not* what I said, that is *not* the point I am making. You need to re-read what I wrote rather than skimming it.
> 
> You are arguing a straw man.


That's actually pretty close to how I read your remark, too.

Must be the rest of us then, huh?


----------



## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

3putt said:


> And I would guess about 90% of us men that have been betrayed agree with those words.


I see. You believe 90% of men who have been cheated on think that any BS who doesn't attack the AP vehemently enough will end up being the next AP who takes part in the destruction of a marriage? Wow, I guess I'm in left field.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

zookeeper said:


> I would also like to point out that none of the pro-Cheaterville people have addressed how the website verifies that the allegations are true. Is that because they don't? I'm not sure how they could. It seems like a system that is just begging for abuse. If someone wants to post the AP there for revenge, fine by me. Just be honest and don't sing the BS tune that its some altruistic effort to protect others. And also have the guts to post your own spouse as well.


They don't verify diddly squat. Anyone can post whatever they want and it doesn't matter if it's a lie.

It seems like a sad place for BS's to try regain some little tiny bit of the control over their lives that their cheating spouse took from them. 

Cheaterville takes advantage of the raw pain, anger and disappointment of BS's in order to make money from advertising on their site. They are raking in the cash while the BS's remain in pain, angry and disappointed. They rake in cash while the AP's family is humiliated once again, this time by the other BS. 

Cheaterville laughs at cheaters, AP's and BS's (and complete innocents who have had lies posted about them) and their families alike - they laugh themselves all the way to the bank.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

norajane said:


> They don't verify diddly squat. Anyone can post whatever they want and it doesn't matter if it's a lie.
> 
> It seems like a sad place for BS's to try regain some little tiny bit of the control over their lives that their cheating spouse took from them.
> 
> ...


The same is true of the sites of every newspaper in the world that runs adverts.

BTW I don't think that Cheaterville laughs at anyone, in particular.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> The same is true of the sites of every newspaper in the world that runs adverts.
> 
> BTW I don't think that Cheaterville laughs at anyone, in particular.


Cheaterville exploits everyone for their own gain.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

norajane said:


> Cheaterville exploits everyone for their own gain.


As does every news magazine or news organisation I have ever worked for, sadly.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> As does every news magazine or news organisation I have ever worked for, sadly.


The difference is, with Cheaterville, we can choose not to lie down in the gutter with them. We can choose not to support those who are exploiting our pain.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> That's actually pretty close to how I read your remark, too.
> 
> Must be the rest of us then, huh?


It must be the two of you yes

This is what I said : 


Allen_A said:


> The degree that you dismiss the AP's involvement as an issue, indicates the degree to which you will involve yourself in someone else's marriage post divorce.


And this is how that got distorted : 



Zookeeper said:


> someone who holds their spouse to a higher standard than the AP will suddenly lose all their character and integrity and have the desire to start an affair of their own with a married person


So ya, it's just the two of you not reading what i wrote, and someone paraphrasing beyond recognition.

Holding one's spouse to a higher standard is not the same thing as dismissing the AP's involvement.

The poster is addressing the former, while I am discussing the latter : a classic straw man fallacy.


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> I believe the details were shared with Mr Cheater's then GF.


Thanks. I don't know everyone's backstory around here so clearly some of my comments don't apply to him. My sentiment stands, however. I have no real issue with people using that site, I just think that many are not honest in their motives for doing so. To each his own, I suppose.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

zookeeper said:


> I see. You believe 90% of men who have been cheated on think that any BS who doesn't attack the AP vehemently enough will end up being the next AP who takes part in the destruction of a marriage? Wow, I guess I'm in left field.


I was mainly talking about the roughly 90% of men that have responded to this side of the discussion on this thread. And, no, I don't believe what you suggest. I've never been a proponent of that part of the topic. _You_ are the one that's stretching the basics of the discussion way out into left field to support your argument or discount someone else's. In other word's, the aforementioned strawman.

This is a pointless discussion anyway. It's all based on personal opinions and mentalities so there really is no true right or wrong. It's a to each his own thing.


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## Differentguy (Oct 3, 2013)

norajane said:


> The difference is, with Cheaterville, we can choose not to lie down in the gutter with them. We can choose not to support those who are exploiting our pain.


Exploiting pain? They are providing a service. Plain and simple. The people who post want to let it be known that someone is a cheater, and the website provides that service. I don't understand the exploitation here.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

No,

I'd like to see cheater vile shut down and sued for slander.

There is no regulatory over site there, no evidentiary process.

Any idiot can come along and post anything they like and you can bet they do.

It's classless and trashy and slanderous.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Differentguy said:


> Exploiting pain? They are providing a service. Plain and simple. The people who post want to let it be known that someone is a cheater, and the website provides that service. I don't understand the exploitation here.


Is the BS in pain when posting?

Is CV making money from the site?

There's your answer...


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

tacoma said:


> No,
> 
> I'd like to see cheater vile shut down and sued for slander.
> 
> ...


As a technical point the entire site cannot be held to be a slander.

Certain posts might not be true. But those posts might arguably be libellous. They would not be slanderous.

This link explains more What Is the Difference Between Slander and Libel?


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

zookeeper said:


> No thanks. I'll let the experts here school me on it. I'm wondering how many even considered that half of the stuff posted there might be partially or even completely false.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You're clearly more of a man than I'll ever be - or perhaps I said the same before my then wife cheated. Who knows?

As for your other points you clearly know nothing about my story. People come here, not to be judged, but for help.

Are you helping?


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

tacoma said:


> No,
> 
> I'd like to see cheater vile shut down and sued for slander.
> 
> ...


Kinda like TAM and this other thing called The Internet.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

tacoma said:


> No,
> 
> I'd like to see cheater vile shut down and sued for slander.
> 
> ...


Agreed, 

What's to prevent OM or OW from posting the BS's name as a cheater? Nothing. It would be so easy to post the name of someone there. There's no verification. The person then has to hire an attorney to send a letter to the website, pay a retainer of thousands of dollars to get their name cleared.

I wouldn't be surprised if one of these days there was a class action lawsuit against CV.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Philat said:


> Kinda like TAM and this other thing called The Internet.


Thank you. I know you just started a war, but this is spot on.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

tacoma said:


> No,
> 
> I'd like to see cheater vile shut down and sued for slander.
> 
> ...





Coffee Amore said:


> Agreed,
> 
> What's to prevent OM or OW from posting the BS's name as a cheater? Nothing. It would be so easy to post the name of someone there. There's no verification. The person then has to hire an attorney to send a letter to the website, pay a retainer of thousands of dollars to get their name cleared.
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if one of these days there was a class action lawsuit against CV.



It's so obvious that normally intelligent people seem to be missing the point.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

Coffee Amore said:


> Agreed,
> 
> What's to prevent OM or OW from posting the BS's name as a cheater? Nothing. It would be so easy to post the name of someone there. There's no verification. The person then has to hire an attorney to send a letter to the website, pay a retainer of thousands of dollars to get their name cleared.
> 
> ...


Waywards are dumb enough as it is when they are in the midst of their delusions, but I have yet to see one dumb enough to retaliate in the same fashion that they were exposed. Setting aside the fact that they would ALSO be spending thousands to defend their claims in a counter-suit (and WILL lose), they also open up their entire lives to the scrutiny of the courts for the defendant's benefit, not to mention having this recorded as a matter of public record forever.

Like I said; I'll believe it when I see it.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

3putt said:


> Waywards are dumb enough as it is when they are in the midst of their delusions,........



Waywards are selfish, deceptive, manipulative, dishonest, foolish, and immoral when "in the midst of their delusions." _Dumb_, I don't think so.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

3putt said:


> *Waywards are dumb enough as it is when they are in the midst of their delusions*, but I have yet to see one dumb enough to retaliate in the same fashion that they were exposed. Setting aside the fact that they would ALSO be spending thousands to defend their claims in a counter-suit (and WILL lose), they also open up their entire lives to the scrutiny of the courts for the defendant's benefit, not to mention having this recorded as a matter of public record forever.
> 
> Like I said; I'll believe it when I see it.


Exactly. 

No attorney will take a case like this on a contingency basis and they will stay away from it altogether if they feel the exposure is true because the case can't be won.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

EI said:


> Waywards are selfish, deceptive, manipulative, dishonest, foolish, and immoral when "in the midst of their delusions." _Dumb_, I don't think so.


C'mon EI, did you actually just type that?

It's all the same, just different wording. I'm just glad I altered the post before I submitted. You REALLY wouldn't have liked how I originally phrased it. 

For the record though, I altered it for the benefit of our FWSs on board because I do have a tremendous amount of respect for you guys and gals.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

EI said:


> Waywards are selfish, deceptive, manipulative, dishonest, foolish, and immoral when "in the midst of their delusions." _Dumb_, I don't think so.


Really, EI? When I had my revenge affair I acted so dumb that a bag of rocks threatened to sue me for getting them a bad name!


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Really, EI? When I had my revenge affair I acted so dumb that a bag of rocks threatened to sue me for getting them a bad name!


LOL...never heard that one before.


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## davecarter (Aug 15, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> How do we know, for sure? They might already be there.


Furthermore, isn't that the whole point of Cheaterville? Making sure as many people know?

i.e.
Hapless Husband: _"my wife's been shagigng some guy but I've exposed him and posted him on Cheaterville"_
TAM Army:_ "Excellent. What's his name and where's the link?"_
Hapless Husband: _"Ummmm...well, I haven't actually told anyone that he's on there..."_

A tad naive, MM?


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## davecarter (Aug 15, 2013)

Basically, Cheaterville is a total waste of time.
It resolves NOTHING.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

davecarter said:


> Basically, Cheaterville is a total waste of time.
> 
> It resolves NOTHING.



A remarkably incisive comment.

The debate had been foundering until your well crafted response.

I think it isn't a waste of time and that it does resolve something.

Over to you!


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

Cheaterville exposes the sinner, which id great, bexause most cheaters cheat again.


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## Singledude21 (Feb 21, 2013)

I honestly didn't know a damn thing about Cheaterville until coming to this site.

So other than people who have already been betrayed, a skilled smooth talker probably doesn't know a thing about that site either, nor his victims. And using the words victim very loosely.

Though it makes no sense to me to not put the cheater on cheaterville but just the OM/OW they were with. WTF is it called cheaterville for then? :scratchhead:


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

Here's the deal - cheaters operate in a world where they think no one sees what they are doing - cheaterville takes that world away from them. there is something called moral authority that people operate under. Cheaters *feel* they have moral authority because *their feelings of love are "mean to be"*.
But what cheaterville does is brings those feelings to the light for others to view and then cheaters view what others think of their *feelings from heaven*. I found it serves a purpose. Again I did not like doing it because I do not like washing my dirty laundry in public *but* secrets live in the dark. you need light baby! Shine the light!


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Cheaterville is certainly not a cure-all for a BS.

I fail to see people complaining about it though.

Sh**bags thrive on secrecy and keeping their true characters hidden.

I see no problems exposing these scummy people publicly for the trash they are.


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## davecarter (Aug 15, 2013)

Chris989 said:


> A remarkably incisive comment.
> 
> The debate had been foundering until your well crafted response.
> 
> ...


YW.
Okay, random situation (which supposedly occurred last year):
* Wife gets hit on by OM
* Wife is also aware that OM a) is married and b) has been with other wives and c) caused ruin of marriages
* Wife either gives in after constant pressure or rather quickly, i.e. _"Hmmmm...I wonder what he has. He's a bad-boy...I'd like to find out why"_
* Wife laments decision after being exposed by husband, xx months into torrid affair: _"Darn! Of only I'd Googled this OMs name, then I'd see he was on Cheaterville and I'd never slept with him. No. Not at all."_


Check out *BetrayedandBlindsided*'s thread - really did him a lot of good and that was a concise, thorough, detailed post on CV


Cheater's will never stop what they do, CV or otherwise.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

3putt said:


> C'mon EI, did you actually just type that?
> 
> It's all the same, just different wording. I'm just glad I altered the post before I submitted. You REALLY wouldn't have liked how I originally phrased it.
> 
> For the record though, I altered it for the benefit of our FWSs on board because I do have a tremendous amount of respect for you guys and gals.


This post rubs me the wrong way. I don't think this was 3putt's intent, but it clearly shows a caste system is alive and well in TAM, or perhaps more accurately the concept of the Dhimmi. When it comes down to it, I don't think a "reformed WS" who comes to TAM to stay for awhile will ever be fully accepted as a part of the community by many posters on here. Even if they are treated as "friends", there's always that disdain lurking just beneath the surface that occasionally bubbles up. It's an interesting dynamic to observe, because the FWW's that are on here seem to morph into the "universal WW" who periodically "dances around" all of the BS's on here. And a number of BS's seem to have no qualms about blasting some other WS on here despite not ever crossing paths in the real world. 

I guess what I'm wondering is when do you stop thinking of "TAMMER 123" as BS or WS and start thinking of him/her as a real person? Honestly, I'm amazed that a number of FWW's do stick around here because it seems no matter what they say or do on TAM, they will ALWAYS be the WS scum to many on this forum.

This dovetails into my issues with CV. It's not universally applied fairly. In fact, many of the cheaters posted on CV are NOT the serial cheating players that people try to use as justifications for CV on here. Many of them are people who engaged in an affair for a variety of their own reasons - people who were no more or less predatory than many of the WS's referenced on here who are NOT put on CV because "he/she is the father/mother of my children". Those APs who made the same mistake as your WS have children too. So if this is the "for the sake of the children" argument for why it's OK for you to post the AP but not your own WS, what makes your children any more special than the other children that can be hurt by CV due to blowback? 

It's nothing more than a way to sew an electronic scarlet letter on someone according to your whim. You either should broadcast ALL parties involve or neither one. Frankly, I'm all for the exposure, but not to the WWW.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Singledude21 said:


> Though it makes no sense to me to not put the cheater on cheaterville but just the OM/OW they were with. WTF is it called cheaterville for then? :scratchhead:


Both the OM/OW and the wayward are cheaters. They both lie, they both sneak around, they both cheat.

They both cheat the betrayed spouse out of a healthy and thriving marriage.

They are partner's in crime.

I don't know why people insist on vilifying only the wayward as a cheater when both the wayward and the OM/OW are engaging in the same dishonest, destructive, immature behavior. They both cheat, they are both high risk for anyone to get involved with in the future.

If one person gives someone the answers to an exam, and the other person uses them... they are both cheating. They are both cheating every student that takes the exam honestly.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> It's nothing more than a way to sew an electronic scarlet letter on someone according to your whim. You either should broadcast ALL parties involve or neither one. Frankly, I'm all for the exposure, but not to the WWW.


As was said before, in this thread actually, if you are working on a reconciliation, putting your own spouse on CV is just going to derail that.

Four different scenarios were covered earlier, only one of which it made sense to post the wayward on CV, the other three were impractical and made no sense at all.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

Allen_A said:


> Both the OM/OW and the wayward are cheaters. They both lie, they both sneak around, they both cheat.
> 
> *They both cheat the betrayed spouse out of a healthy and thriving marriage.
> *


*
*
I apologize for the thread jack, but I have to interject with my thoughts. I was the WS and I do not disagree with your comment with the exception of what I have bolded. I did lie, I did sneak around, I did cheat. But, I did not deprive my BS out of a healthy and thriving marriage. Dear God, the only thing that could have made my pre-A marriage any less healthy and less thriving is if one of us had killed the other. Our marriage was not healthy or thriving looooooong before my A. Although, that, in no way, makes me, or my choice to be unfaithful, any less wrong or damaging to my BS, my children, or myself. While understanding that there are certain "scripts" that define all infidelities, including lies and betrayal, I'm concerned that certain notions are repeated so often on TAM that they have become accepted as broad assumptions. In this case, the notion being that every marriage that is affected by infidelity was a perfectly healthy marriage until the infidelity destroyed it. I think that it's important for BS's and WS's to examine the nuances that define their individual relationships.

End of thread jack. 



Allen_A said:


> They are partner's in crime.
> 
> I don't know why people insist on vilifying only the wayward as a cheater when both the wayward and the OM/OW are engaging in the same dishonest, destructive, immature behavior. They both cheat, they are both high risk for anyone to get involved with in the future.
> 
> If one person gives someone the answers to an exam, and the other person uses them... they are both cheating. They are both cheating every student that takes the exam honestly.


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

I agree with El. My marriage was an unhealthy one. I knew there was problems and suggested MC but that was always shot down. We both fell short in the relationship. The affair did not improve it, our willingness to see and change the problems is.

As for CV I have still not comminted to posting the OM.
_Posted via My Fingers_


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

EI said:


> But, I did not deprive my BS out of a healthy and thriving marriage. Dear God, the only thing that could have made my pre-A marriage any less healthy and less thriving is if one of us had killed the other. Our marriage was not healthy or thriving looooooong before my A. Although, that, in no way, makes me, or my choice to be unfaithful, any less wrong or damaging to my BS, my children, or myself ... In this case, the notion being that every marriage that is affected by infidelity was a perfectly healthy marriage until the infidelity destroyed it. I think that it's important for BS's and WS's to examine the nuances that define their individual relationships.
> 
> End of thread jack.





Cloaked said:


> I agree with El. My marriage was an unhealthy one. I knew there was problems and suggested MC but that was always shot down. We both fell short in the relationship. The affair did not improve it, our willingness to see and change the problems is.
> 
> As for CV I have still not comminted to posting the OM.
> _Posted via My Fingers_


Look, when you have an affair, that does not exist in a vacuum. Time, money, and energy that could have been directed into making a marriage healthy and thriving was instead directed into an affair. Maybe it was a bad marriage already?

So, you take time, money, and energy AWAY from a drowning marriage and that isn't cheating?

Sorry, you basically shoot someone in the foot that already had a broken leg.

It's not smart, it's cheating.

This is cheating.

This cheats your spouse out of a shot at something they may otherwise have had.

_It does not matter what state your marriage is/was in. If you take your time, money, and energy away from there and direct it into an affair, you are cheating, both or you. This does not improve the marriage, this derails any hope of it getting any better. This is done in secret, unilaterally, without the consent of those people whom you are obligated to put that effort into._ Both wayward and AP make this choice, in secret, and conspire to maintain this over a period of time. They both cheat the marriage, the family, and children, and even I would suggest workplace as well.

How many cheaters lie to their workplace in order to squeeze some time or money for an affair?

Most I would imagine.

I would further argue you are cheating your and workplace and children as well.

Any time, money, or energy taken from someone, and put into a secret infidelity is cheating.

It does not matter what state the marriage was in, cheating derails any chance of that getting better.

You are cheating your spouse of a chance at a thriving marriage, you cheat your workplace, you cheat your children.

Think the marriage is dead? Have an affair for two years instead of a divorce? You just cheated your wife and children out of two years. You condemn them to limbo for two years while the AP and wayward frolic about in secret enjoying someone else's time and money. Both do it. It does not matter how crappy the marriage is.

If your marriage is dead, you divorce and put your time, money, and energy into a civil and orderly exit from the marriage. If you have an affair instead of a divorce, you cheat the family financially, emotionally, and rip their valuable time from them as well.

Infidelity just postponses at great cost to time and money. Infidelity postpones an orderly exit from a marriage or a healthy reconciliation. You rip time and money away from either of those two outcomes and shovel it into sleaze instead. Both wayward and AP do this.

Infidelity is akin to playing hookey from school, or from work, in order to go do something in secret with someone who does not give a rats arse about your work, school, or family.

You take from one person, and give to another in secret.

It's cheating. It does not matter what state things are in on the home front. Sorry. Both wayward and OM/OW are cheating the marriage and family out of 

x hours
x monies

That's it in a nutshell. Both of you take from one person(s), and give to yourselves in secret. It's cheating. Both do it. Both enjoy the fruits of the deception and theft of time and money taken from someone else in secret without their knowledge or consent.

It does not matter if you are shortchanging your spouse or children already, shortchanging them even more, to give to a third party in secret is cheating. Both wayward and AP do this together.


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## davecarter (Aug 15, 2013)

I'd have all cheaters executed.
Like, on-the-spot.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> This post rubs me the wrong way. I don't think this was 3putt's intent, but it clearly shows a caste system is alive and well in TAM, or perhaps more accurately the concept of the Dhimmi. When it comes down to it, I don't think a "reformed WS" who comes to TAM to stay for awhile will ever be fully accepted as a part of the community by many posters on here. Even if they are treated as "friends", there's always that disdain lurking just beneath the surface that occasionally bubbles up. It's an interesting dynamic to observe, because the FWW's that are on here seem to morph into the "universal WW" who periodically "dances around" all of the BS's on here. And a number of BS's seem to have no qualms about blasting some other WS on here despite not ever crossing paths in the real world.
> 
> I guess what I'm wondering is when do you stop thinking of "TAMMER 123" as BS or WS and start thinking of him/her as a real person? Honestly, I'm amazed that a number of FWW's do stick around here because it seems no matter what they say or do on TAM, they will ALWAYS be the WS scum to many on this forum.
> 
> ...



I do appreciate what you are trying to convey with this post. But, I wasn't offended, in any way, with 3putt's comments. This is an anonymous Internet forum where we discuss the highly emotional subject of infidelity. As with all infidelities there are the betrayed spouses and wayward spouses. If this were a game it would be the good guys vs. the bad guys and we all know who is who. 

Everyone who posts on this forum is either trying to learn something, for themselves, or trying to help someone else. Some posters manage to do both. There will always be disdain for WW's and, for many of you, even for former WS's. As a former WS, I, too, look at WS's, and infidelity, in a negative light. But, not through the same lens as a BS or as someone who has never been betrayed. Having been a WS, I know, firsthand, the damage that infidelity causes to one's BS, children, and to themselves. My purpose in coming to TAM was to seek insight, wisdom and concrete ideas to help me so that I could help my family begin to heal. At the time, I didn't really think that my "marriage" could or should be saved, but I knew that my husband and I both needed to "reconcile" ourselves to the reality that was now our life. Whether he would remain my spouse or not, did not change the fact that he would always be the father of our children. We would always be connected, in some way, and we both needed to heal. 

I don't think that TAM is the place for political correctness. I think it is and should be a place for brutal honesty. Otherwise, how is anyone ever truly going to "learn" anything? That being said, honesty, even when "brutal," can be delivered respectfully. I cannot demand that someone respect me. But, I can insist upon being addressed respectfully. That doesn't mean that it always happens that way. And that's okay, too. How we treat others is indicative of who we are, not of who they are. That's right. How you treat others is indicative of who you are, not who they are. We are all accountable for our own behavior. We all own our own actions and responses. Just as I cannot blame the years of emotional and physical neglect that I suffered from my husband on my choice to cheat, he could not have used my choice to cheat as an excuse to have become a #%^* He could have used my choice to cheat as a reason to divorce me, just as I could have used the years of his emotional and physical neglect of me, prior to my A, as a reason to divorce him. But, neither the BS, or the WS, can be held accountable for their spouse's actions or reactions. The same applies to TAM. I may have been a WS, at one point, in my life. But, if I am being as polite, respectful, and helpful as I can be, on TAM, and a TAMer acts like an arrogant jerk towards me, it isn't because I was a WS, it's because the TAMer is an arrogant jerk. 

You can be honest, even when the honesty hurts.... because that's how we learn from one another. But, you can still be respectful about it. If you're not, that's on you...... own it.

Again, I wasn't offended by 3putt. He was simply stating his honest opinion of WS's. It was his opinion. He wasn't being a jerk. I still disagree with his comment, though.  Dumb people lack intelligence. Not all WS's lack intelligence. They lack integrity. They may have had integrity, at some point, and chose to surrender it during their affair. Maybe they never had it. But, they can choose to become a person of character and integrity. It's all about personal choices.


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## love=pain (Nov 26, 2012)

EI said:


> [/B]
> I apologize for the thread jack, but I have to interject with my thoughts. I was the WS and I do not disagree with your comment with the exception of what I have bolded. I did lie, I did sneak around, I did cheat. But, I did not deprive my BS out of a healthy and thriving marriage. Dear God, the only thing that could have made my pre-A marriage any less healthy and less thriving is if one of us had killed the other. Our marriage was not healthy or thriving looooooong before my A. Although, that, in no way, makes me, or my choice to be unfaithful, any less wrong or damaging to my BS, my children, or myself. While understanding that there are certain "scripts" that define all infidelities, including lies and betrayal, I'm concerned that certain notions are repeated so often on TAM that they have become accepted as broad assumptions. In this case, the notion being that every marriage that is affected by infidelity was a perfectly healthy marriage until the infidelity destroyed it. I think that it's important for BS's and WS's to examine the nuances that define their individual relationships.
> 
> End of thread jack.


Very few marriages that have suffered through infidelity were great to begin with although sometimes one spouse may not know just how the other feels about the marriage. One man sees rain and curses for getting wet the other praises the rain for making his crops grow, in my case we did have some issues but none that would warrant her cheating. If our marriage was a disaster with constant fighting etc then while cheating is not acceptable it is at least understandable (same old line applies though if you were that unhappy then just leave).
IMO many WS's have a much lower opinion of their marriage then the BS does that's why the BS are shocked by the act at least I was.

To any WS's who post here I have nothing good or bad for you if you have anything constructive to add to any thread then it is welcome just don't ask me for any sympathy for your "suffering" instead of putting all your energy into fixing your relationship or getting out of the relationship you put it all into cheating and hiding it. One last thing if the marriage was that bad and you didn't think your spouse cared then why even bother to hide your actions? Guess you didn't want to give up the money, the family, the lifestyle.

Now back to our story- Cheaterville one of the few ways a BS can exact revenge in this day, and I think we have all dreamed of some type of revenge but no one wants to go to jail or get sued, give me the old days when a man could beat the sh1t out of the OP or the female OP was shunned and scorned by the community. 
Our society is still built on an I for an I, you make me cry and I want to see you suffer, a little hatred is good for you if everyone was all candy and kisses I think I would throw up EVERYDAY.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

love=pain said:


> If the marriage was that bad and you didn't think your spouse cared then why even bother to hide your actions? Guess you didn't want to give up the money, the family, the lifestyle.


As I have said before : 

_Infidelity is an illegitimate response to what may very well be legitimate complaints.
_

We have all heard the wayward-speak and their thoughtless attempts to rationalize infidelity.

I agree with you, it's just cake eating disguised as a legitimate response.

Infidelity is an illegitimate response. No excuses, no justification. No theory or circumstance warrants infidelity.

Even if your spouse was beating you black and blue, cheating on them will not better the situation. I would argue infidelity makes it a thousand times worse for everyone involved.

If the marriage is unsatisfactory, there are two legitimate options : 

a. repair
b. orderly exit

Anything else is acting out, childish, and immature.


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## love=pain (Nov 26, 2012)

Allen_A said:


> As I have said before :
> 
> _Infidelity is an illegitimate response to what may very well be legitimate complaints.
> _
> ...


Wish I could like this post twice, out of all the things WS's are told here and in real life(TAM is make believe isn't it) they always seem to ignore it. Probably because it is a simple statement that doesn't leave room for any of their excuses.


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## DarkHoly (Dec 18, 2012)

In many ancient civilizations the penalty for infidelity was death. Shockingly, infidelity was actually pretty rare as a result of that kind of norm. Please note that I'm not saying that cheaters should be killed. I'm not saying they shouldn't be, either. I'm just saying that when you tolerate bad things, those bad things are going to happen. A lot.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

love=pain said:


> Wish I could like this post twice, out of all the things WS's are told here and in real life(TAM is make believe isn't it) they always seem to ignore it. Probably because it is a simple statement that doesn't leave room for any of their excuses.


I have seen it here on this forum myself. SO ya, copy and paste here as you see fit.

Rinse, lather, repeat.

As many times as needed until people stop the insanity.


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## mel123 (Aug 4, 2012)

Sites like Cheaterville.com are out to make money on peoples heart ache. Its also too easy for a mad individual to falsely post untrue information to cause emotional pain.

An example may be a bad business deal, an inheritance dispute or person breaks up their relationship. NOT because of cheating, but the partner is not good fit for them.


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## love=pain (Nov 26, 2012)

mel123 said:


> Sites like Cheaterville.com are out to make money on peoples heart ache. Its also too easy for a mad individual to falsely post untrue information to cause emotional pain.
> 
> An example may be a bad business deal, an inheritance dispute or person breaks up their relationship. NOT because of cheating, but the partner is not good fit for them.


Didn't know they charged to post someone on that site or to look at the posted cheated (I have been there a few times) but it did look like there is some sort of verification (pics/texts/email ?) that have to take place to confirm it though the pic and info is still posted on the site.
We do live in America and we pride ourselves on making money off other people's suffering, just ask the pharmaceutical companies and the news stations.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

EI said:


> [/B]
> I apologize for the thread jack, but I have to interject with my thoughts. I was the WS and I do not disagree with your comment with the exception of what I have bolded. I did lie, I did sneak around, I did cheat. But, I did not deprive my BS out of a healthy and thriving marriage. Dear God, the only thing that could have made my pre-A marriage any less healthy and less thriving is if one of us had killed the other. Our marriage was not healthy or thriving looooooong before my A. Although, that, in no way, makes me, or my choice to be unfaithful, any less wrong or damaging to my BS, my children, or myself. While understanding that there are certain "scripts" that define all infidelities, including lies and betrayal, I'm concerned that certain notions are repeated so often on TAM that they have become accepted as broad assumptions. In this case, the notion being that every marriage that is affected by infidelity was a perfectly healthy marriage until the infidelity destroyed it. I think that it's important for BS's and WS's to examine the nuances that define their individual relationships.
> 
> End of thread jack.


I agree 100%. Most marriages are already failing. And i respect every single reformed cheater who gives advice here. 

This thread should not be seen as a attack on them.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

davecarter said:


> YW.
> Okay, random situation (which supposedly occurred last year):
> * Wife gets hit on by OM
> * Wife is also aware that OM a) is married and b) has been with other wives and c) caused ruin of marriages
> ...


The OM in my ex wife's cheating was and is a known cheater. My wife knew when she started having sex with him that he already had a long term girlfriend and that he had cheated and been part of cheating in the past.

Had she seen his name on Cheaterville before her betrayal, I don't believe it would have changed our story one jot.

But.

I would say that my posting of him on Cheaterville has been a resounding success - aided and abetted by his girlfriend, who insisted on using a lawyer to remove the Cheaterville link from Google. 

Of course, I simply posted another Cheaterville story with a slightly mis-spelled name in the title but the correct name in the story. Ergo: within a couple of weeks it was back on top of a Google search *plus* somebody had a reason to write a small blog about the idiot's attempts to have the story hidden.

This currently appears 2nd, 3rd and 4th on a Google search, with the new Cheaterville story 1st. Bing returns both.

Had Cheaterville not existed, I would have had no way of making the "story" known. Of course, everybody my wife worked with, all of my in laws, everybody her POSOM worked with, knew the version they had been fed by the POSOM and my, now ex, wife.

It gave me a chance to set the record straight.

As you will see if you click the link in my sig, I was "lucky" that the OM has a unique name.

I know that more or less anybody who knows this creep now knows a small part of what really happened.

If Cheaterville was no use, his 2 stories would not have had a combined total of over 2 million hits.

If any prospective employer, any friend, any acquaintance searches for him they get quite a story now. 

Perhaps the next woman he hits on will not be as stupid as my wife so will see what he has done and then avoid him like the plague on humanity he is.

Lastly, it feels good to have some revenge. I have had my life literally ruined by this POS and my ex. I blame my ex. 100% for what happened, but that does not mean this "man" will escape my attention and Cheaterville helps me in my revenge too.

As is ever the case, there is much more to our story than a tabloid internet site, but it has helped me a great deal in several ways. 

Thank God for Cheaterville.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

illwill said:


> I agree 100%. Most marriages are already failing. And i respect every single reformed cheater who gives advice here.
> 
> This thread should not be seen as a attack on them.


Just to be clear, I absolutely do not see anything on this thread that is an attack on WS's. Nothing at all. Strong emotions and opinions are understandable and have to be expected by former WS's. If I wish to be heard, on TAM, so that I might be able to make any kind of positive difference, at all, for anyone, whether BS, WS, or anyone else who may be reading or commenting, then I have to be willing and able to hear what is being said to and about WS's by others. I can not undo my past transgressions. That is absolutely impossible. The only thing that I can do is try to be the best individual, wife, and mom, that I can possibly be, from this day forward. Part of that growing process, for me, has been sharing my own journey of reconciliation, on TAM, as it progresses, in real time. 

I don't post here to be liked, I post here so that BS's and WS's might get a clear picture of what goes on inside of the mind of a WS before, during, and after the infidelity. Obviously, I can only share MY story, as I see/saw it. I wouldn't expect for anyone to agree with the thought process that I used to justify my infidelity, because I now completely understand that there are no circumstances that justify infidelity. Yet, when infidelity is occurring or has occurred, there are reasons/justifications that the every WS uses with themselves. I share mine here in the hopes that it might help someone else. And, to those very generous BS's, on the Reconciliation thread, who shared their anger, pain, rage, and devastation with the WS's there, and who were able to condemn the infidelity, without condemning the cheater, B1 and I thank you from the bottom of our hearts. I think you saved our marriage. I could see in those BS's, what I was too hurt, angry, and bitter to see in my own, at that time. But, I was able to apply that insight to my BS and use it to help heal my marriage.

And, finally, to those of you who suggest that WS's deserve to die....... tough, too bad, it's not going to happen, get over it!  If I had taken my life, (and, I did think about it every day) during the depression that preceded my affair, I would have posthumously been called selfish. Having the affair was, also, selfish. I could take my life, now, but my husband and children would not be very happy about it. They love me. I love them..... and, we're all enjoying one hell of a successful reconciliation!


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"In many ancient civilizations the penalty for infidelity was death. Shockingly, infidelity was actually pretty rare as a result of that kind of norm."

Ummm....sadly it has never been as rare as some people today assume.

There never was a 'Golden Age' of human marital fidelity (or morality of any kind, in reality).

Our technology today just makes it easier to conduct AND more likely that we can read or hear about it being exposed.

The proclivity to lie, cheat, injure, and deceive have always been with us and, unfortunately, will likely always be present in disturbing (at least to honorable people) amounts.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

Good for you EI. You deserve it. You and many others here have earned it. 

And who wishes death on a wayward?

My god why would you wish death on anyone you used to love? Or anyone? Thats just sad.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

illwill said:


> I agree 100%. Most marriages are already failing. And i respect every single reformed cheater who gives advice here.
> 
> This thread should not be seen as a attack on them.


In the context of infidelity a marriage failing or not really has no bearing, that was the point that was being made.

_Mentioning that a marriage is failing while discussing an infidelity within that marriage risks defecting the issue._

It really does not matter if a marriage is failing or not.. infidelity is an illegitimate response. It also takes away from the BS, failing or not. Cheating your spouse on a failing marriage does indeed cheat your spouse out of a healthy and thriving marriage.

The level of success the couple enjoys when the infidelity starts, continues, or ends is irrelevant.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

Allen_A said:


> In the context of infidelity a marriage failing or not really has no bearing, that was the point that was being made.
> 
> _Mentioning that a marriage is failing while discussing an infidelity within that marriage risks defecting the issue._
> 
> ...


No one, especially me, a betrayed spouse thinks cheating is ever a excuse or correct response to a bad marriage.

But youd be a fool to not look at the state of the marriage before the affair. 

This is common sense.


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## NEVER HAPPEN 2 ME RIGHT? (Sep 28, 2012)

To steal (and ba$tardize) one of my favorite lines from the Matrix:

"That, Mr. Anderson, is the sound of accountability."

I posted the POSOM on CV because I believe that there must be consequences for our actions. I firmly believe him to be a predator. He travels for work 4 out of 5 days a week as a consultant. The first time my wife mentioned meeting him at work and going to lunch, I heard alarm bells. Something seemed off in the way she talked about him. Couldn't put my finger on it, just felt odd. I tried googling him, but just got his LinkedIn and Facebook pages.

He used his constant travel and expense account to wine and dine my wife, before taking her back to his hotel room and sleeping with her. Is my wife innocent in this scenario? Far from it. And if his BW wants to post her, that is certainly her right.

But now, this predator has an electronic paper trail. Google his name, and the second link is to his CV posting. This posting would have been a lifesaver for me if it was available 2 years ago. He has over 1.5 million views. Three months ago, someone emailed the link to his wife anonymously. I had tried to tell her of the affair at the time I discovered it, but he had gas lit her successfully ahead of time. 

But to all of those who think CV is pointless, consider this. 

1. Enough people have seen it, that someone who knows his wife found it and sent it to her. So people who know him, are now aware of who he REALLY is.

2. It's the second link when you google his name (3rd on Yahoo or Bing). Try applying for a job in today's world without your future employer doing an exhaustive search online. In the last 18 months, we have had two different applicants at my ad agency that were passed up because they had CV postings. It works. 

It works well enough, that he even reached out to my wife and asked that the posting be taken down (after his wife had it emailed to her). His contacting my wife after she demanded no contact from him ever again, enabled me to remind him that he still has a career because I choose to allow it. I reminded him that one email from me to his HR department showing that he slept with a client, while using finances from his company expense account to get her drunk would likely find him unemployed and unemployable.

He made the decisions he made, now he must live with the consequences of those decisions. That's how life works.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

illwill said:


> No one, especially me, a betrayed spouse thinks cheating is ever a excuse or correct response to a bad marriage.
> 
> But youd be a fool to not look at the state of the marriage before the affair.
> 
> This is common sense.


In the context of infidelity no.

Addressing marital issues and infidelity in the same conversation introduces the risk of deflection.

I do not think it is common sense, nor sensible to discuss marital issues in the same conversation as infidelity, no.

Too easy for someone to get the wrong idea and attach one to the other. This happens far far far too often.

Marital issues, and infidelity are separate topics, and ought to be managed as such.

Discussing infidelity in the same conversation as discussing marital issues is akin to discussing someone's drinking or drug problem while discussing marital issues.

Infidelity is an individual issue, not a marital issue. It is best managed in a separate conversational context.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

Allen_A said:


> In the context of infidelity no.
> 
> Addressing marital issues and infidelity in the same conversation introduces the risk of deflection.
> 
> ...


I disagree. I made my point and stand by it. We are not gonna convince the other.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Would Cheaterville work in every case? No.

Would it work in the case of an idiotic, drunken ONS? Probably not.

Would it work in the case of someone who uses his reputation as a community worker to hide the fact that he is a serial sexual predator? Almost certainly.

Or someone who uses his company expenses to wine and dine married women and to bed them? Again, almost certainly.

The thing is, posters here on TAM who used CV, previously had no recourse as many jurisdictions abolished the concept of 'alienation of affections' many, many decades ago.

Now? At least they have CV to out the POSOM to a wider audience. Vital if someone can fly from place to place cheating as they travel.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

illwill said:


> I disagree. I made my point and stand by it. We are not gonna convince the other.


I think we are both arguing separate points.

I can grant you that the marital situation is important to examine and can influence a person's choices to a degree. It is most certainly more tempting to cheat on an unsatisfying marriage than it is to cheat on a satisfying marriage. I hear you.

The risk is that the people in the conversation can far too easily slip into a cause and effect argument.

In almost every single case when a wayward is confronted about infidelity you get a criticism of the marriage. Almost every single time.

If you confront someone about their drinking problem, and they tell you their marriage is unsatisfying, no one would accept that. No one would even try that to justify the drinking.

_For some silly reason people are far too easily swayed when infidelity is confronted and an unsatisfying marriage is introduced in defense._

I have no idea where this nonsense got started, but it's far too common, and is actually accepted as legitimate defense ... it's almost convention still do to so.

Sorry, it just happens too often.

I agree an unsatisfying marriage can influence someone to cheat. _An unsatisfying marriage can influence someone to drink, do drugs, gamble, drive the household finances into bankruptcy..._ 

These are all individual responses (illegitimate responses) to marital issues

As long as both spouses understand the choice to derail things in secret (pick your poison) is the owner's choice fully and 100%, then yes, I don't see a problem with addressing marital issues.

But far far far too often waywards will use an unsatisfying marriage as an excuse. I am wary of anyone addressing or introducing marital issues until infidelity is resolved fully and out of the conversation.

Waywards want to blame an unsatisfying marriage for their choice to engage in infidelity almost every single time.

Oddly enough, that does not often happen with drinking, drugs, gambling, and other destructive habits... go figure...

My marriage was unsatisfying, which made me drink to excess...
My marriage was unsatisfying, which made me gamble to excess...
My marriage was unsatisfying, which made me spend to excess...
My marriage was unsatisfying, which made me use drugs to excess...

Those you dont' often hear. Mainly because no one these days would accept that nonsense.

My marriage was unsatisfying, which made me interact with other men/women to excess...

THAT one you hear far far far too often. You hear it almost every time. The worst part is that many people try this still today. It's practically convention and still commonly accepted as a legitimate defense! 

I would be wary of any conversational direction that lays the groundwork to feed this kind of thinking...


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Philat said:


> Kinda like TAM and this other thing called The Internet.


Not at all.

Neither TAM nor the internet exist for the sole purpose of trashing people.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

DarkHoly said:


> In many ancient civilizations the penalty for infidelity was death. Shockingly, infidelity was actually pretty rare as a result of that kind of norm.



Not true.

People in large numbers have been banging people they shouldn't be banging since the Dawn of civilization.

In fact I'd dare say infidelity is less common now than a millennia ago due to modern social morality.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

tacoma said:


> Not true.
> 
> People in large numbers have been banging people they shouldn't be banging since the Dawn of civilization.
> 
> In fact I'd dare say infidelity is less common now than a millennia ago due to modern social morality.


Based on what evidence?

This stuff is done in secret. Today we have digital records left and right, but you can't with much confidence say how often people did or did not cheat at the "dawn of time". Even a thousand years ago the bulk of the populations in middle age states were illiterate. It's virtually impossible to say with much confidence how much infidelity was happening. All you get is what is recorded by the literate. And most literate people didnt' give a rats butt what the lower classes were doing as long as they paid their taxes, worked, their farms, and didn't stir up rebellion.

Seriously, that would be a wild guess at best.

"Social morality" existed a thousand years ago too.. That does not stop people from cheating.. at least in my opinion it is not a deterrent.


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## mel123 (Aug 4, 2012)

love=pain said:


> Didn't know they charged to post someone on that site or to look at the posted cheated



advertising




love=pain said:


> We do live in America and we pride ourselves on making money off other people's suffering, just ask the pharmaceutical companies and the news stations.


When I am sick I kinda like the pharmaceutical companies. I am glad pharmaceutical companies made Chemo drugs or my mother would have died 12 years ago.


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

All I can say from experience is my BS posted the OM on Cheaterville. For those who doubt that it works, well he used to be an attorney with a pretty large law firm, in fact he was senior counsel at his office. Not any more. He is now a salesman for a "Green" based power company and his wife left him. It's going on two years since Somedaydig posted him and the Cheaterville site is the top of the Google page.

And no, I would not blame his WS one bit if she posted me. She fully has the right to do so.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

For those arguing against posting the OM on CV as a warning to others that may cross his player path should take a glance at kkel's thread. This is a good example of why it's not just a useful tool to end an affair, but exposure for those that are aware enough to check on who they're seeing and what they've done. Please spare me the lawsuit argument against the one that posts that. That's a bullsh!t argument that has no merit or precedent.

As an aside, I can't believe one little comment from me provoked so much discord last night and today. Even EI said she wasn't offended by what I said, yet so many want to nit-pick and read between the lines for an underlying motive to my comments, and then engage in a flame war over it. I never called EI dumb. I simply stated her actions at the time of her addiction fueled affair were dumb, just like any other one of our FWSs were.

If I worded it wrong, then I am so freaking sorry. But, dang, I think with my post history that most peeps would realize it didn't come out as intended.


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## Singledude21 (Feb 21, 2013)

I'm sorry, but it just comes off as very petty to me in some situations. Personal and Business shouldn't mix in my honest opinion unless they took it there. Now using their work power, that's one thing, but defaming someone's professional status for personal business just comes off as very petty to me.

Dwyane Wade just revealed he had an affair on his fiance and that produced a child. And that in no way effects my opinion of him as a basketball player. IMO, it should be the same with business people assuming their job wasn't used as perks with the affair.

If I was in charge of something, something my employee did won't suddenly make me want to fire him just because he slept with someone's wife. He's still a good businessman and does his job well, and quite frankly, that should be none of my business in the first place.

Just how I see it. I think you get a clearer look as someone looking in the glass and not someone who's already biased because they are the BS and rightfully feel robbed of justice.


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## Stronger-now (Oct 31, 2013)

Allen_A said:


> That's not what I said. What I said is if you give the AP a free pass, which some here do, there's no logical reason to think you would do differently yourself in their situation. And post-divorce that is exactly the situation you will be in. *So now you are a Nostradamus? You state with absolute certainty that anyone who does not seek revenge from AP will be an AP themselves once they are divorced. I find your confidence of your "logical" reasoning endearing ha. What I don't understand is...why wait until divorced? Why not now while still married? Or legally married in my case? It never stops a WS from being an AP to someone else's married right? *
> 
> In my opinion the degree to which you hold the AP accountable is indicative of how you can be expected to behave yourself towards marriage as a single person : if you think the AP is not accountable much at all, you will violate marriages without regret yourself. If you hold the AP accountable equal to your wife, you will more likely conduct yourself like an adult when you are single as well.
> 
> ...


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

What defamation though? I would think since the xOM is still a lawyer that if anyone could figure out how to file a defamation suit, it would be him. In the law business, you're only as good as your name. Also, Dig didn't post him to get him fired or anything. He did it to put truth "out there" when the xOM was lying to everyone about what really happened with the affair.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Singledude21 said:


> If I was in charge of something, something my employee did won't suddenly make me want to fire him just because he slept with someone's wife. He's still a good businessman and does his job well, and quite frankly, that should be none of my business in the first place.


* A lot of companies will disagree with you here. If word gets out among other employees or customers as to whats going on, then it does not set a good example for them.That's why a lot of companies employ non-fraternization rules. It saves them a lot of grief and helps promote a better corporate image!*


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## Singledude21 (Feb 21, 2013)

Regret214 said:


> Also, Dig didn't post him to get him fired or anything.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's my point though. If you just have to go after someone, you post facts and stick to the personal of what happened. And he was straight up lying, so your spouse decided to post the truth. From what I've seen though, people try to go above and beyond that.

Take for example Eric415's thread, you have people who are openly upset that Eric didn't try to go after OM's promotion and instead worried about himself. People even kinda angry and in a way wish he would do what they would, and that just comes off as extremely petty to me. He focused on what IMO was much more important, him and the potential of his relationship going forward. I just feel that should be all that matters instead of wasting countless hours trying to get payback on someone who wouldn't have even been in the picture if the spouse never allowed it. And then the fact people will actually attack an AP while forgiving the WS blows my mind.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

3putt said:


> For those arguing against posting the OM on CV as a warning to others that may cross his player path should take a glance at kkel's thread. This is a good example of why it's not just a useful tool to end an affair, but exposure for those that are aware enough to check on who they're seeing and what they've done. Please spare me the lawsuit argument against the one that posts that. That's a bullsh!t argument that has no merit or precedent.
> 
> As an aside, I can't believe one little comment from me provoked so much discord last night and today. Even EI said she wasn't offended by what I said, yet so many want to nit-pick and read between the lines for an underlying motive to my comments, and then engage in a flame war over it. I never called EI dumb. I simply stated her actions at the time of her addiction fueled affair were dumb, just like any other one of our FWSs were.
> 
> If I worded it wrong, then I am so freaking sorry. But, dang, I think with my post history that most peeps would realize it didn't come out as intended.


Hey, you are a tremendous poster and a very valuable asset on TAM (FWIW coming from this former WS.)  I was NOT offended by your comments or by those of anyone posting on this thread. I, seriously, doubt that any remorseful WS would be. And, just so that we can make sure that everything about infidelity has been covered: There are NO positive adjectives to describe affairs or the actions of people while they are in them...... None. Unfortunately, it is usually only after the affair has ended, and some time has passed, that most WS's (including myself) are able to fully comprehend that. No sorry is necessary. I doubt that your comments, alone, started the flame war. Besides, you know most of the TAMers enjoy a lively debate.


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## mel123 (Aug 4, 2012)

A few well placed phone calls, and some face to face conversations exposing a cheater is more effective than cheatersville. Gossip travels like wild-fire. The general population don't look at such sites anyway.

Fellow co-workers neighbors etc will have already recognized the affection or closeness shown anyway. Other people know of the cheating many times before the betrayed one knows

With online cheating sites, situations such as the one below happens too often.

Sacramento Husband says he was defamed by Cheaterville user | news10.net


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## davecarter (Aug 15, 2013)

Chris989 said:


> The OM in my ex wife's cheating was and is a known cheater. My wife knew when she started having sex with him that he already had a long term girlfriend and that he had cheated and been part of cheating in the past.
> 
> Had she seen his name on Cheaterville before her betrayal, I don't believe it would have changed our story one jot.
> 
> ...


That's actually pretty impressive! 
:lol:


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Singledude21 said:


> I'm sorry, but it just comes off as very petty to me in some situations. Personal and Business shouldn't mix in my honest opinion unless they took it there. Now using their work power, that's one thing, but defaming someone's professional status for personal business just comes off as very petty to me.


It's only defaming if it isn't true. That's the whole point really, isn't it?


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

love=pain said:


> Yeah I like them too who doesn't when they are sick but when they charge outrageous prices yet sell the same drugs outside the U.S. for cheaper then you know they don't always have our best interest at heart.
> Oh and by the way I have had several people in my family sick with cancer too and I have seen the bills so go be condescending elsewhere.


Great. A debate about the US healthcare system! 

Just what we need to keep things calm


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Singledude21 said:


> That's my point though. If you just have to go after someone, you post facts and stick to the personal of what happened. And he was straight up lying, so your spouse decided to post the truth. From what I've seen though, people try to go above and beyond that.
> 
> Take for example Eric415's thread, you have people who are openly upset that Eric didn't try to go after OM's promotion and instead worried about himself. People even kinda angry and in a way wish he would do what they would, and that just comes off as extremely petty to me. He focused on what IMO was much more important, him and the potential of his relationship going forward. I just feel that should be all that matters instead of wasting countless hours trying to get payback on someone who wouldn't have even been in the picture if the spouse never allowed it. And then *the fact people will actually attack an AP while forgiving the WS blows my mind.*


I agree - especially with what's in bold. 

I actually think a number of people have it backwards when it comes to assessing blame between WS's and AP's. As far as the BS is concerned, the WS should always get the lion's share of the blame no matter what. In fact, I would say if the AP is a player or a serial cheater - especially a "big time" one - the WS should shoulder almost all of the blame completely. Serial cheaters and especially players are known quantities. No matter how covert they try to be, they will have a reputation. People talk. Even if it's the guys talking about "Jim's latest conquest" around the water cooler, it gets around. Meaning, your WS should know better than to fall for the charms of a player because chances are the player's reputation is out there. When it comes to WS's cheating with players, I think the WS has already made the decision to "go for it" if the opportunity presents itself.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I agree - especially with what's in bold.
> 
> I actually think a number of people have it backwards when it comes to assessing blame between WS's and AP's. As far as the BS is concerned, the WS should always get the lion's share of the blame no matter what. In fact, I would say if the AP is a player or a serial cheater - especially a "big time" one - the WS should shoulder almost all of the blame completely. Serial cheaters and especially players are known quantities. No matter how covert they try to be, they will have a reputation. People talk. Even if it's the guys talking about "Jim's latest conquest" around the water cooler, it gets around. Meaning, your WS should know better than to fall for the charms of a player because chances are the player's reputation is out there. When it comes to WS's cheating with players, I think the WS has already made the decision to "go for it" if the opportunity presents itself.


Nobody on here has said that the WS is not to blame. Nobody.

Perhaps those that have not suffered from a betrayal (to their knowledge, Plan9) do not understand how all of this works.

As somebody else posted, there are only a few scenarios where the WS is treated in the same way as the AP. I don't understand why this is difficult to grasp - unless, of course, somebody hasn't suffered from infidelity - in which case they probably have no idea what they are talking about.

There is evidence on this thread that Cheaterville works. It helps the BS. It harms the AP.

That's good enough for me.

I've lived through this and it worked for me. 

Have you?


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*If I ever chose to post there, I'd post all the pertinent evidence, i. e. photos, cell phone/texting bills, timelines, emails, et. al.

After all, regarding slander or libel, there is no defense to the truth!*


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

Chris989 said:


> I've lived through this and it worked for me.
> 
> Have you?


A good and valid point. If someone has never experienced what a BS has lived, how on Earth can they imagine to say what they do about it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Regret214 said:


> A good and valid point. If someone has never experienced what a BS has lived, how on Earth can they imagine to say what they do about it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hope Dig is doing ok? I miss him on here.

Thank you for sticking around!


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

Dig is doing very well and we're all adjusting to life 1300 miles from everything we knew. I still lurk and read mostly to always remember what I was capable of and not let my guard down.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## love=pain (Nov 26, 2012)

Chris989 said:


> Great. A debate about the US healthcare system!
> 
> Just what we need to keep things calm


Not from me I said my peace besides I am way to dumb to give any insight into the healthcare system (so says the government)

Sorry couldn't resist


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Singledude21 said:


> I'm sorry, but it just comes off as very petty to me in some situations. Personal and Business shouldn't mix in my honest opinion unless they took it there. Now using their work power, that's one thing, but defaming someone's professional status for personal business just comes off as very petty to me.
> 
> Dwyane Wade just revealed he had an affair on his fiance and that produced a child. And that in no way effects my opinion of him as a basketball player. IMO, it should be the same with business people assuming their job wasn't used as perks with the affair.
> 
> ...



The thing about not separating the business and personal is that by seeing the personal side, the "true" character of a person can be revealed many times. When you can see that the person has a history of making bad choices and exhibits character that wouldn't be in keeping with the standards your company wishes to project, you can then suspect that they will continue to make other "suspect" decisions in the future. 

This is the exact reason that we have resumes, interviews, and background checks, to insure that the person we are employing is of sound character to represent our brand and company and a good fit with the image and staff. In this day of litigious societies, companies can be sued for many issues, and if they were to hire a known cheater, embezzler, thief, etc then they can open themselves up to lawsuits if the employee continues in those behaviors and in the process tarnish the name and reputation of the company/ brand.

Is this fair? Not really, but then again if you are willing to do the crime you should be willing to accept the punishments/ consequences. Should criminals be treated differently in an employment situation than others? Most would say yes, so why shouldn't the same hold true for other actions? If I hire a "known" offender, does that make me somewhat responsible for their actions later on? In most courts that would be the case (but it would have to be proven that I knew in advance). Most employers would rather avoid these situations than take the chance, so they error on the side of caution (and with an extremely large pool of applicants to draw from it only takes the slightest mark to narrow the pool). This is where cheaterville works (especially if the person was reported as having inter office affairs).


As for the drug companies comment. I don't think this is a hit against the US Heathcare system, but more a statement to the fact that we are worth more to the drug companies sick than we are healthy, which gives them little incentive to actually "cure" the ailment, rather than nurse it along. I believe that if we really focused on some diseases we could find a cure, rather than something to "temporarily heal" the ailment (only to have it resurface again later).


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

> Cheaterville.com - Is reporting cheaters going too far?


As long as one is telling the truth, I don't think so. Never been to cheaterville, but if you can search by location, it would be nice to know who out there has cheated.

Would I go to such a site? Probably not. I know you can never be guaranteed you won't get cheated on, but if a site can help weed out the undesirables, why not?


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Singledude21 said:


> I'm sorry, but it just comes off as very petty to me in some situations. Personal and Business shouldn't mix in my honest opinion unless they took it there. Now using their work power, that's one thing, but defaming someone's professional status for personal business just comes off as very petty to me.
> 
> Dwyane Wade just revealed he had an affair on his fiance and that produced a child. And that in no way effects my opinion of him as a basketball player. IMO, it should be the same with business people assuming their job wasn't used as perks with the affair.
> 
> ...


As much as I can't stand cheaters, I have to agree with the above.

However, if one uses company time/trips/money, etc involving their affairs, then they should be fired. 

If two colleagues on a business trip are found out to be having sex in the company provided hotel room, they should both be fired.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

vellocet said:


> As much as I can't stand cheaters, I have to agree with the above.
> 
> However, if one uses company time/trips/money, etc involving their affairs, then they should be fired.
> 
> If two colleagues on a business trip are found out to be having sex in the company provided hotel room, they should both be fired.


My thinking is that if they will lie to their wife, they will lie to me too. If they betray their family, they will betray their employer. I wouldn't wait to learn the hard way.

I would let them go quickly and quietly.

It might be nice to say business is business and personal is personal, but psychology does not work that way. People who lie, cheat, or behave immaturely in general have a tendency to behave that way in a variety of aspects of their life.

From my experience people don't compartmentalize immaturity all that well. It would be nice to think they do, but I wouldn't wait to find out the hard way I was wrong.

Any cheating employee would be let go quite quickly were it my choice.

And your point about using company resources is the main point : I have known many cheaters, and pretty much every single one took advantage of their employer in one way or another. I can't remember the last case study I read where someone worked full time and didn't' eventually exploit their employment to fuel their affair further in some way.


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## Singledude21 (Feb 21, 2013)

Allen_A said:


> My thinking is that if they will lie to their wife, they will lie to me too. If they betray their family, they will betray their employer.


Can't compare that because working and romance is different for people. People who are content with their job usually dedicate their time to it, if they don't they get fired or quit. And though it does happen, it is a lot less likely someone cheats to get ahead in their job compared to doing it the right way and earning a promotion.

Cheaters on the other hand don't do this, they usually tend to eat the cake, trying to get the best of both worlds.

And you don't really "betray" your employer. The only reason there IS betrayal is because feelings and love were involved. Jobs don't care about you like that, and have no problem dropping your ass. Compare that to a women who actually thinks about R cause they have feelings and stuff for her cheating husband.

Hell, it would be SOOO much easier if a lot of you could operate like that and fire your spouse with no remorse


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Singledude21 said:


> And you don't really "betray" your employer.


lol

Really?

That's amusing.. you should try to sell that story to employers who catch their employees : 

a. stealing
b. moonlighting (working for someone else on company time)
c. taking kick backs
d. watching porn with a company computer on company time
e. lying
f. drunk
g. high

These employers very much feel betrayed. They give people trust, and when that trust is found to be abused employers do feel very much betrayed.

And they will toss your butt out the door.

Sorry, employers are people and experience betrayal like anyone else does.

I have known some women who had to terminate long term employees they felt quite close to. These women did not take that lightly and were quite upset about the messes these employees made of the trust given to them. Heck I have kown one female in upper management who actually cried in private after firing a young woman that worked for her. She felt like the girl was her daughter. They had worked together for over ten years.

Sorry, employers are not robots. They experience betrayal and don't take it lightly.

And back to the point : if an employee is lying, cheating his wife/family, and sneaking around like an adolescent, there is a concern on the business side as well. If it were my choice and I found an employee was involved in anything unsavory like an infidelity they would be out the door. If they were caught doing anything remotely criminal like that they would be out the door. I have known one exec he was distraught and had to go home for the rest of the day after firing a long term employee. He was ok soon after wards, but these are human beings, they do feel betrayal. Employees can be betrayed by their employers as well.

There are people lined up around the block eager to work. Employers don't have to tolerate overgrown children in their companies. There is always someone else ready to take your seat and show executives they can act like a grown up.


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## Singledude21 (Feb 21, 2013)

Agree to disagree, cause I don't see that as feeling betrayed. I just see that as taking care of business and making decisions. Doubt any feelings are hurt for firing someone. And if they are, you don't deserve to be in a position of firing anyway.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Singledude21 said:


> Agree to disagree, cause I don't see that as feeling betrayed. I just see that as taking care of business and making decisions. Doubt any feelings are hurt for firing someone. And if they are, you don't deserve to be in a position of firing anyway.


Then clearly you do not know any people with the power to hire and fire.

I have been told that firing someone can be an emotionally draining experience.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Then clearly you do not know any people with the power to hire and fire.
> 
> I have been told that firing someone can be an emotionally draining experience.


*Having been a supervisor, it is hell to fire or to lay someone off ~ more especially if the order to do so comes from up over your head.

And if you do fire someone, you must habitually worry that the firing procedure used meets legal standards, or you can find a great deal of your time consumed in legal and administrative hearings.

Not matter how you might paint it ~ it ain't exactly fun!*


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Then clearly you do not know any people with the power to hire and fire.
> 
> *I have been told that firing someone can be an emotionally draining experience*.


Having been a Mgr. of Operations in a past life I can personally attest to the fact that it is indeed emotionally draining to fire someone, even if the reasons are completely valid. You know that with that one action you are taking away a person's ability to provide for themselves and their loved ones. It truly is an unpleasant task, but at the same time, completely necessary.

Glad to be out of that mess. That was the only thing I truly hated about management.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

Cheating doesn't get people fired where I work. A supervisor I had about five years ago cheated. He got promoted to a higher position in the organization. The very large organization I work for has right now a married man and a younger woman in an affair. He hasn't been fired. I don't work for their department, but I know what's going on. Like everything in life whether one gets fired for having an affair depends on the specific employer and its practices. It's not against the rules in most places I've worked (non-profit, government...even small businesses)Here, if you come to work on time, do your job per your position description, are a team player, don't violate the laws that govern our industry, the powers that be don't care if you're cheating on your spouse or not. It's not morally right perhaps, but they see it as a personal issue/dirty laundry and they don't get involved.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Coffee Amore said:


> It's not morally right perhaps, but they see it as a personal issue/dirty laundry and they don't get involved.


And if the infidelity is with a co-worker?

I know many companies that dont' care if their employee cheats, as long as the company is not involved in any way and the employee keeps the cheating out of the workplace.

I know other companies that do indeed show you the door if you are involved in infidelity in any way.

And I also know companies that don't care if you are cheating, even if it's with a co-worker. This last position is the one I find the most deplorable. In that scenario the employer is pretty much an accessory to the crime.

So, there are basically three common policies : 

a. cheat, at work or elsewhere, we don't care
b. cheat, but keep it out of the workplace
c. don't cheat, or we show you the door

There are companies out there for each of the three bases. Mine is a B. I would like to work for a C, but those are harder to come by.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Then clearly you do not know any people with the power to hire and fire.
> 
> I have been told that firing someone can be an emotionally draining experience.


Try firing 8 people in one day, including one person you recruited from another company just 6 months earlier. I can tell you it is draining, but that's business and it comes with the territory. You get over it pretty quick because business goes on.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Regret214 said:


> A good and valid point. If someone has never experienced what a BS has lived, how on Earth can they imagine to say what they do about it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It doesn't make his opinion any less valid because he hasn't experienced infidelity in his marriage. In addition, he could be a person of conviction and knows exactly what he would do if his spouse was unfaithful. Finally, maybe the reason he hasn't experienced infidelity is because of how he manages his relationship with his spouse and we should listen to what he has to say because he's pretty successful.


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> It doesn't make his opinion any less valid because he hasn't experienced infidelity in his marriage. In addition, he could be a person of conviction and knows exactly what he would do if his spouse was unfaithful. Finally, maybe the reason he hasn't experienced infidelity is because of how he manages his relationship with his spouse and we should listen to what he has to say because he's pretty successful.


I agree with you that his insight for working on a marriage is probably based on sound experience. Absolutely. It's the sense I got from the post of who the betrayed should only be blaming. I don't think it's fair to say what a betrayed should do or feel if you haven't personally experienced it. That's just me though seeing the crap I've put Dig through. I AM to blame, however there were two of us involved in the affair.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

The Middleman said:


> It doesn't make his opinion any less valid because he hasn't experienced infidelity in his marriage.
> 
> *Fair enough, but let's agree that it's an uninformed opinion.*
> 
> ...


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Singledude21 said:


> Agree to disagree, cause I don't see that as feeling betrayed. I just see that as taking care of business and making decisions. *Doubt any feelings are hurt for firing someone. And if they are, you don't deserve to be in a position of firing anyway.*


Dude!! It's an extremely traumatic experience for all concerned!


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Philat said:


> Originally Posted by The Middleman
> It doesn't make his opinion any less valid because he hasn't experienced infidelity in his marriage.
> 
> *Fair enough, but let's agree that it's an uninformed opinion.*
> ...


Sorry, let's agree to disagree, but I'm not buying any of that.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

the middleman said:


> sorry, let's agree to disagree, but i'm not buying any of that.


ok, np.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> It doesn't make his opinion any less valid because he hasn't experienced infidelity in his marriage. In addition, he could be a person of conviction and knows exactly what he would do if his spouse was unfaithful. *Finally, maybe the reason he hasn't experienced infidelity is because of how he manages his relationship with his spouse and we should listen to what he has to say because he's pretty successful.*


Or, just maybe, the reason he has 'managed his marriage' in the fashion that he and his wife have is a direct result of being here (and other places) and learning what to do, and more importantly what NOT to do from those that have been through this trauma. Hey, whatever the reason, more power to him and others like him. I applaud that. If there were more of them around, then this place would probably have a lot less broken hearts searching for answers to questions they never even thought about.

However, I still feel that for someone to come here and strongly offer opinions on a subject with which they have NO experience in is, well....not quite conducive to the nature of this board. He just doesn't understand the emotions that are linked with infidelity. He just doesn't. And until you do go through, you'll never get it. Hell, I wish we were all so ignorant to that.

Not saying his thoughts are completely invalid and have no merit, but to continuously harp on a subject that he has no experience in is simply not helpful, IMO. In fact, it can be harmful.


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## Singledude21 (Feb 21, 2013)

Philat said:


> Dude!! It's an extremely traumatic experience for all concerned!


Yea, but I'm pretty sure its not taking years to get over it. Compared to an affair you might not ever get over.


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

I agree 3putt. That would be like me offering advice to mothers whose children have cancer or autism or something else I have no true concept of the depth of issues that they deal with on a daily, if not hourly basis day in and day out. I might be a mother, yet wouldn't feel qualified to express how a mother in their situation should deal with her feelings.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Singledude21 (Feb 21, 2013)

3putt said:


> Not saying his thoughts are completely invalid and have no merit, but to continuously harp on a subject that he has no experience in is simply not helpful, IMO. In fact, it can be harmful.


I'd say because the experience and whether its needed is whats in question here, not whether or not an affair was had. People have different ways of handling it, and some felt Cheaterville was a good measure while some don't think it is.

But from what I've seen, I don't see people get on others cases to advice people NOT to do cheaterville, but the opposite. People ENCOURAGING cheaterville. And some even taking offense if the person having the problem decides to not use these methods.

Some people don't feel its necessary to go through cheaterville, and therefore feel the experience of using it shouldn't even be a requirement to discuss it. I've never used steroids and don't plan to, but don't see why I can't join a discussion on whether or not it should be used.


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## Singledude21 (Feb 21, 2013)

The Middleman said:


> Finally, maybe the reason he hasn't experienced infidelity is because of how he manages his relationship with his spouse and we should listen to what he has to say because he's pretty successful.


Kinda how I am. Was in a situation where I immediately felt disrespected with her actions, was told I was acting paranoid and I cut it right then and there. Whether she was or not, could care less.Refused to even put myself in that situation.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

Singledude21 said:


> I'd say because the experience and whether its needed is whats in question here, not whether or not an affair was had. People have different ways of handling it, and some felt Cheaterville was a good measure while some don't think it is.
> 
> But from what I've seen, I don't see people get on others cases to advice people NOT to do cheaterville, but the opposite. People ENCOURAGING cheaterville. And some even taking offense if the person having the problem decides to not use these methods.
> 
> Some people don't feel its necessary to go through cheaterville, and therefore feel the experience of using it shouldn't even be a requirement to discuss it. I've never used steroids and don't plan to, but don't see why I can't join a discussion on whether or not it should be used.


You can join the discussion all you want, but like I said above, until you have been through this and are doing everything in your power to protect your family from the destruction of infidelity, then it's just impossible for you to comprehend. We're not just talking about discussion here. We are talking about trying to help real people, real families, with very real problems. Life altering problems.

We don't have a dump truck load of resources to bust up affairs. We have what we have. I just find it irresponsible for those that have no clue about what they are talking about to interject so much opinion into a person's family that is on the verge of implosion because of infidelity. We have what we have, and that's it.

Are you getting this at all? I don't mean this as an insult, but just to hopefully make you understand what I'm talking about.


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## Singledude21 (Feb 21, 2013)

3putt said:


> Are you getting this at all? I don't mean this as an insult, but just to hopefully make you understand what I'm talking about.


Yea I understand that, but I don't focus on the issues that are far out of my hands. Having a family and stuff, ain't my forte. But I do know a thing or two about relationships and don't see a problem giving my input. But that's all it is, input. People have to make their own choices.

As far as someone knowing how to adjust or change for their kids, homes, etc...I don't go into that cause frankly its not my place. But I can see when someone is being disrespected by their other and give my advice on how I would stop it. It doesn't take 20 years of marriage to see when someone is being lied to and advise them to put their foot down at being disrespected.

Though this is kinda off topics since the original debate was on the use on cheaterville, and at that point, the relationship is already past the affair stage. Or it should be hopefully. And even on this, I don't blame anyone at all for using it if it works. I just don't really care for it. I just get a little dissapointed when people prefer NOT to out an OM and people voice their displeasure, that was my main point.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

Singledude21 said:


> Though this is kinda off topics sense the original debate was on the use on cheaterville, and at that point, the relationship is already past the affair stage. Or it should be hopefully. And even on this, I don't blame anyone at all for using it if it works. I just don't really care for it. I just get a little dissapointed when people prefer NOT to out an OM and people voice their displeasure, that was my main point.


You do realize you just contradicted yourself in one paragraph.... right? 

You say you get disappointed when people choose not to out an OM (or OW), yet state that you don't care for the methods in which they are outed.

I'm all ears for better suggestions.


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## Singledude21 (Feb 21, 2013)

3putt said:


> You say you get disappointed when people choose not to out an OM


Nooooo, you read that wrong 

It's when people choose not to out an OM, *then posters here voice their displeasure in the person's choice not to. That's what disappoints me. *

Like I don't like Cheaterville, but I'd NEVER criticize an OP if he started using it. I have seen the opposite here though, like Eric415's thread. Were even mad he didn't go after the guy's promotion.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

Singledude21 said:


> Nooooo, you read that wrong
> 
> It's when people choose not to out an OM, *then posters here voice their displeasure in the person's choice not to. That's what disappoints me. *
> 
> ...


The reason you're seeing the opposite is because WE have seen what newly BSs can't, and that's the effectiveness of this type of exposure. If they don't want to go out on that limb to save their marriage, then hey, that's their call.

And for the record, some of us do take some satisfaction from seeing an OM get what's coming to him from our suggestions. Vicarious living?...perhaps. But I won't lose a seconds sleep over it.

Sacking out.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> It doesn't make his opinion any less valid because he hasn't experienced infidelity in his marriage. In addition, he could be a person of conviction and knows exactly what he would do if his spouse was unfaithful. Finally, maybe the reason he hasn't experienced infidelity is because of how he manages his relationship with his spouse and we should listen to what he has to say because he's pretty successful.




So on May 15th 2012, I had been happily married for 22 years. Clearly, I had been "managing my relationship" well and was worth listening to because of that.



On May 16th 2012, it turns out I hadn't been "managing my relationship" very well and my opinion, therefore, was worth less.



Having experienced betrayal and managed the outcome, my opinion is therefore worth less than somebody who has no idea of the feelings it causes, I have thought for hours and hours and hours about cause and effect, about relationships, about 22 years of marriage, about the effect the real life situation was having on my children, friends and wider family.



I have analysed, discussed online and in real life - met therapists, examined every detail of my relationship, discussed relationships of other people; attempted to make sense of everything in light of the most intense and painful experience in my 45 years on Earth.



I know - as a fact - that I had *no idea* about infidelity before this. I have the benefit of both a faithful marraige and one in which I was betrayed.



You are, directly, accusing me - and all other betrayed spouses - of not "managing my relationship". It is deeply insulting and patronising.



It is no surprise to me - or, I am sure other victims of infidelity - that your opinion is repeated by those that have not suffered from a betrayal and those who have been the cheats. Your opinion is not, in the vast majority of cases, shared by those whom know of what they speak.


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## love=pain (Nov 26, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> It doesn't make his opinion any less valid because he hasn't experienced infidelity in his marriage. In addition, he could be a person of conviction and knows exactly what he would do if his spouse was unfaithful. Finally, maybe the reason he hasn't experienced infidelity is because of how he manages his relationship with his spouse and we should listen to what he has to say because he's pretty successful.


This is my opinion not meant to keep anyone from posting on this site but if you have never lived through infidelity either as a BS or a WS then you don't have any understanding on how any of us feel. Like someone looking over a surgeon's shoulder telling him how to operate when he never went to medical school, I don't care if you stayed at a Holiday Inn express last night you don't know what you are talking about.
Fact of the matter you may think you have a perfect marriage and your SO can still cheat on you. Just because one person is attentive and works hard to make their marriage work doesn't mean the other partner is doing the same most of the time you can never tell.
I thought my marriage was o.k. some issues but nothing that serious my wife saw things differently so here we are, truthfully I feel like a failure and the fact that the OP was involved in that failure makes me want to extract some revenge and cheaterville (I never used it) would be a better option than my fist, a bat or a gun.

P.S. You can have all the conviction in the world and *think* you know what you would do if your spouse ever cheated but until you are staring out into *that* precipice you have no idea.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Chris989 said:


> You are, directly, accusing me - and all other betrayed spouses - of not "managing my relationship". It is deeply insulting and patronising..


That's just udder nonsense. I never said any such thing nor did I imply it or intend to imply it. The fact remains that we all can learn form each others experiences. When some here doesn't like what he has to say (or what anyone who hasn't experienced infidelity has to say) because it strikes too close to home, you then marginalize his opinion by declaring him unqualified to speak on the subject. That's just wrong in so many ways. If you disagree with him (or me), argue the point.



Chris989 said:


> It is no surprise to me - or, I am sure other victims of infidelity - that your opinion is repeated by those that have not suffered from a betrayal and those who have been the cheats. Your opinion is not, in the vast majority of cases, shared by those whom know of what they speak.


That may be the case, but that isn't going to shut me up, nor do I think it will it shut up Plan 9 from OS. But do me a favor: If you think me or anyone else is out of line, report it to the moderators. Otherwise, expect to her things you don't agree with.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Singledude21 said:


> Kinda how I am. Was in a situation where I immediately felt disrespected with her actions, was told I was acting paranoid and I cut it right then and there. Whether she was or not, could care less.Refused to even put myself in that situation.


And that is exactly what happened to me and I avoided the heartache that so many here have had as a result as a result of taking the actions that I did .... and I intend to share that with those that I think need to hear it.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

I think when speaking on topics with no experience it may be helpful to warn newcomers about that?

I dunno.. just a thought.

I don't doubt that single men or women can still offer advice on the infidelity front, but the risk of offering destructive advice is a bit higher in those cases.

I wouldn't concern myself with ineffective advice, but there is a risk of offering advice that does much more damage.

I wouldn't want someone telling me how to fix my car if they had never fixed one.

The good news is that advice offered in public forum is carefully scrutinized. The risk of some really destructive advice getting out there and acted on is rather slim.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Allen_A said:


> I don't doubt that single men or women can still offer advice on the infidelity front, but the risk of offering destructive advice is a bit higher in those cases.


I don't know about that; everyone has relationships and experiences in life. They bring another point of view to the table. We need to be careful of attacking or marginalizing the person because we don't agree with what they have to say. This is something that I've been guilty of doing myself on this board and I've been trying to stop my behavior. Also, there is an ignore feature on this board that works pretty well. If someone doesn't like what someone else has to say, I suggest that they use it ... I have.



Allen_A said:


> I wouldn't concern myself with ineffective advice, but there is a risk of offering advice that does much more damage.


Agreed. Everyone will do what they think is best.



Allen_A said:


> I wouldn't want someone telling me how to fix my car if they had never fixed one.


Would you ignore Marv Albert's opinion on basketball or football just because he never played the sport?


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## Singledude21 (Feb 21, 2013)

The Middleman said:


> Would you ignore Marv Albert's opinion on basketball or football just because he never played the sport?


Great analogy. I've seen the destruction of cheating with my own eyes tear my family apart, and majority of the reason I refuse to let it happen to me. I've seen the lies, tears and just complete selfishness. The hurt it did was enough, no way in hell I'd want to live that, and I'd try my best to do the same for someone else and help them avoid it if they are willing.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

This is an internet message board. Anybody can post advice opinions or whatever the heck they want as long as they are trying to do so in a helpful way.

Some of you are wound up so tight.....


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Allen_A said:


> *I think when speaking on topics with no experience it may be helpful to warn newcomers about that?
> 
> I dunno.. just a thought.*
> 
> ...


I've made my background known repeatedly and on a regular basis enough that it's common knowledge that I haven't been either a WS or a BS. But I have directly seen the effects of infidelity on marriages of family members. It's not like I've been in this cocoon where the concept of infidelity is completely alien to me either. 

I know that infidelity is a highly sensitive subject that can become very emotionally charged simply by wording responses the wrong way. I get that it will leave people emotionally raw and I NEVER intend to come across as someone who is callous to others feelings when it comes to this.

I know people talk about validating a poster's responses based on whether he/she experienced cheating in his/her marriage. I think this is a misleading statement. Without experiencing cheating, it is true that I do not understand the emotional toll it can take on a BS nor fully comprehend the gut wrenching feelings that well up in the pit of his/her stomach when trying to decide if the marriage is salvageable or not. No doubt I will never fully comprehend those feelings. But I still have experiences as a married person who has gone thru a lot of other trials through marriage. My wife and I have found a way to keep that spark going. And no, I'm not saying I have all the answers - far from it actually. I can share with you some of the good things that we have done in our marriage that has helped us. We also have very good communication and we talk things out regularly whenever there are issues between us. 

So while I cannot provide support for processing the pain of infidelity, I think that I can help someone out in other ways. I think my life experiences can help someone do their best to minimize the chance that a spouse chooses to cheat. I fully realize that nothing is fool proof, but no doubt there are a number of cases where infidelity occurs as a reaction to something going bad in a marriage. Not all cases because I understand that this can be random. But there are definitely situations where a spouse cheats as a reaction to something that went wrong in the marriage. This is not meant as a justification to cheat, but an acknowledgement that flawed people will make flawed decisions if the circumstances align.

Sorry for the thread jack.


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## 1812overture (Nov 25, 2013)

Chris989 said:


> It is no surprise to me - or, I am sure other victims of infidelity - that your opinion is repeated by those that have not suffered from a betrayal and those who have been the cheats. Your opinion is not, in the vast majority of cases, shared by those whom know of what they speak.


I'm not a victim, nor have I cheated, but I do not share his opinion, either. I have friends and relatives who have lived through it. I helped and am helping them as best I can. I am a married man who can't get laid, so I believe I understand the challenge of choosing self versus family, even if I can't quite understand the pain.

I love the results from your Cheaterville exposure. My only question on this front is why (except in some clear circumstances) would the affair _partner_ be in line for special exposure? If the affair partner is himself/herself married, wouldn't the affair partners spouse be equally justified in deciding on Cheaterville exposure? When two married people cheat, there are two spouses who can legitimately look at the (other?) cheater as a POS. Goose/gander, and all that. (I'm wondering about the brief side conversation you just had yesterday).

I believe it is important for my kids to see me handle life like an adult, but not a martyr. They need to see me deal with pain, and take steps to lessen that pain and hopefully eliminate it. They need to see me sacrifice. They need to see me show remorse when I behave badly.


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## love=pain (Nov 26, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> Would you ignore Marv Albert's opinion on basketball or football just because he never played the sport?


I wouldn't but I have never played pro basketball / football so I don't know any better, ask a pro and I think they ignore broadcasters opinions for just that reason. 
By the way all I can think about when Marv's name comes up is him dressed up in panties and a bra(anyone remember his troubles a few years Back?)

Think of Marv as a IC or MC counselor, he has seen a lot of games interviewed many players and does have some insight into the game but is not always right.

Now think of yourself as a fan in the 700 level you have even less knowledge than MARV, in fact you think what you read in the sports pages and what Marv says is exactly what is going on when it is not.
I hope you never have to get in this game, more people have been broken than come out the other side, TAM is full of their stories.


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## Stronger-now (Oct 31, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I've made my background known repeatedly and on a regular basis enough that it's common knowledge that I haven't been either a WS or a BS. But I have directly seen the effects of infidelity on marriages of family members. It's not like I've been in this cocoon where the concept of infidelity is completely alien to me either.
> 
> I know that infidelity is a highly sensitive subject that can become very emotionally charged simply by wording responses the wrong way. I get that it will leave people emotionally raw and I NEVER intend to come across as someone who is callous to others feelings when it comes to this.


And there is a "breed" of BS who consciously decides to focus all of their energy on themselves. I was emotionally exhausted from finding proofs of what my then-husband was doing behind my back. I was sick and tired of feeling there was something wrong but couldn't put my finger on it. That was actually the worst. The limbo. Once I found proofs - beyond reasonable doubt - that he was cheating (and a serial cheater at that), I was done. I had no more energy to even consider saving my marriage. I was just tired, but also relieved. My survival instinct kicked in, I put myself first. Damm*t, he put his crotch and whatever cheap thrill he got from his affairs first all those years while I consistently thought about him in all of my decisions and actions. This is MY time to put myself first. To summarize the way I felt about him once I found out: f*ck him. 

And that's my revenge. I could not care less if he was crying with regret, I could not care less if he was sick with remorse. Too little too late. And that's someone I still love, to this day. I do not wish him anything ill, I do secretly wish he would change (doubt it) to be a better man in his next relationship. But I am not holding my breath. If that's the way I feel toward someone I used to be madly in love with, you can imagine how I feel about his APs. I will not flatter them with any attention, even a negative one it is still attention. They are nobody to me, and I am not going to make them feel any more important by spending my time and energy on them. Most of people who cheats or gets involve with a married person suffer from low self-esteem anyway. The ultimate attention sl*re. In my opinion, the worst hit to their ego is if you just dismiss them as a nobody. And that's what they are (to me, at least). Nobody important. I do not wish them well, I am not a saint. I just don't give a f*ck about them.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Allen_A said:


> My thinking is that if they will lie to their wife, they will lie to me too. If they betray their family, they will betray their employer.



That's a good point too. Untrustworthy is untrustworthy no matter how you slice it.


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## Singledude21 (Feb 21, 2013)

Stronger-now said:


> And that's my revenge. I could not care less if he was crying with regret, I could not care less if he was sick with remorse. Too little too late. And that's someone I still love, to this day. I do not wish him anything ill, I do secretly wish he would change (doubt it) to be a better man in his next relationship. But I am not holding my breath. If that's the way I feel toward someone I used to be madly in love with, you can imagine how I feel about his APs. I will not flatter them with any attention, even a negative one it is still attention. They are nobody to me, and I am not going to make them feel any more important by spending my time and energy on them. Most of people who cheats or gets involve with a married person suffer from low self-esteem anyway. The ultimate attention sl*re. In my opinion, the worst hit to their ego is if you just dismiss them as a nobody. And that's what they are (to me, at least). Nobody important. I do not wish them well, I am not a saint. I just don't give a f*ck about them.


Pretty much EXACTLY how I feel. I like to give that POSOM the message you just aren't important enough to take my precious time. You tried to break me and you didn't, I've moved on. A lot of them like the thrill of knowing they are taking someone's lover, so refuse them that satisfaction of knowing they broke you. And in return, their "spoils" look a lot less impressive. All they wound up with is a dropoff you dont even care for anymore, sloppy seconds to the truest term.


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## love=pain (Nov 26, 2012)

Sorry for a double but wanted to say this

Anyone WS, BS or someone with no experience that gives constructive or encouraging words is always welcome. But when anyone makes a blanket statement (especially without experience) towards how a group should be or if they were this way it would be different is talking out of their backside.
I saw infidelity up close when I was younger too and so did my wife and we both had different experiences. I swore I would never stay if she cheated heck I was having drinks a few weeks before Dday with some buddies one who was going through a divorce due to his wife cheating and I made the foolish statement that "If she ever cheated on me she is gone the OP can have her". 
Then a few weeks later I am the one looking at that deep hole and all the conviction in the world didn't mean squat.
There is no sure fire way to avoid infidelity, react to infidelity or overcome infidelity anyone who says different is a fool.
How's that for a blanket statement.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Singledude21 said:


> I've seen the destruction of cheating with my own eyes tear my family apart, and majority of the reason I refuse to let it happen to me. I've seen the lies, tears and just complete selfishness. The hurt it did was enough, no way in hell I'd want to live that, and I'd try my best to do the same for someone else and help them avoid it if they are willing.


Ummm.. betrayed spouses don't "let" infidelity happen.

They are betrayed, hence the name.

Some BS will live in a state of "willful blindness", but I don't think that's the norm. I think to suggest that BS "lets" this happen runs the risk of blame shifting.

The AP and Wayward "let" this happen, not the BS.


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## Stronger-now (Oct 31, 2013)

Singledude21 said:


> Pretty much EXACTLY how I feel. I like to give that POSOM the message you just aren't important enough to take my precious time. You tried to break me and you didn't, I've moved on. A lot of them like the thrill of knowing they are taking someone's lover, so refuse them that satisfaction of knowing they broke you. And in return, their "spoils" look a lot less impressive. All they wound up with is a dropoff you dont even care for anymore, sloppy seconds to the truest term.


Yes. Imagine if you confront the OM and he answered like the OM of one of the posters here (really bad with name): "if your wife wants sex from me, I will give it to her." You have to admit, the OM has a point. Your wife participated eagerly in the sex session. Yes, he beat the OM (if that didn't put him in legal trouble and he felt a certain satisfaction, oh well...good for him) but imagine what and how you could answer that. During the earlier days when the pain was still intense, I daydreamed dropping my husband at one of his AP's house. There, she gets MY sloppy second. Or even better, like one of the grandfather of another poster here (again, bad with name), flick a dime at the OM and tell him go buy a better c**chy. Priceless.


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## Singledude21 (Feb 21, 2013)

Allen_A said:


> Ummm.. betrayed spouses don't "let" infidelity happen.


Betrayed spouses let the digging of deeper dark truths, torture of R and sometimes denial of the cold hard truth happen to them. All 3 of those are a choice. You're not required to go through any of those. Some feel they must to be at peace with themselves or save their family, not knocking them for it. But I just ain't one of them. I personally don't see it wrong if I have to break my family up (divorce) if it means I can be happy and a better father.


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## 1812overture (Nov 25, 2013)

Singledude21 said:


> Betrayed spouses let the digging of deeper dark truths, torture of R and sometimes denial of the cold hard truth happen to them. All 3 of those are a choice. You're not required to go through any of those. Some feel they must to be at peace with themselves or save their family, not knocking them for it. But I just ain't one of them. I personally don't see it wrong if I have to break my family up (divorce) if it means I can be happy and a better father.


You seem to take it for granted that being around ones children less can make one a better father. You seem to not understand that another man showing up in your spot can prevent you from being a better father, and the turmoil can make life worse for children even IF it is better for you.


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## love=pain (Nov 26, 2012)

Singledude21 said:


> Betrayed spouses let the digging of deeper dark truths, torture of R and sometimes denial of the cold hard truth happen to them. All 3 of those are a choice. You're not required to go through any of those. Some feel they must to be at peace with themselves or save their family, not knocking them for it. But I just ain't one of them. I personally don't see it wrong if I have to break my family up (divorce) if it means I can be happy and a better father.


The day you have 20+ years of history with someone, children, financial responsibilities and everything that goes along with having a family then we will see just how *you* let things happen, it's so easy to bluster and say all the big things you would do in a situation but until you are faced with it you know nothing.


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## Singledude21 (Feb 21, 2013)

1812overture said:


> You seem to take it for granted that being around ones children less can make one a better father. You seem to not understand that another man showing up in your spot can prevent you from being a better father, and the turmoil can make life worse for children even IF it is better for you.


I'm a product of the opposite though. My father and mother divorced, and it both made them better parents for me and my sibling. I can say without a doubt it would not be the case had they stayed together. My stepfather has been great, but hasn't killed the relationship with my father at all. Its different paths to take with different outcomes.


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## Singledude21 (Feb 21, 2013)

love=pain said:


> The day you have 20+ years of history with someone, children, financial responsibilities and everything that goes along with having a family then we will see just how *you* let things happen, it's so easy to bluster and say all the big things you would do in a situation but until you are faced with it you know nothing.


That's a broad statement that doesn't apply to everyone though. Some people just have an easier time letting go than others, or specifically know that if they have a plan, they will go through with it regardless. It's the reason this is a hot topic, because it can go so many ways. We have just a few posts up of someone who thinks just like I do and can drop anything if they felt disrespected.

And I've had a very small variation of it. Good relationship, planned on settling, felt a disturbance in the force and I left. Just went cold and left. Now it ain't a 20 year marriage, but it gave me experience.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Singledude21 said:


> But from what I've seen, I don't see people get on others cases to advice people NOT to do cheaterville, but the opposite. People ENCOURAGING cheaterville.


Ya, and?.......




> And some even taking offense if the person having the problem decides to not use these methods.


Example? Because I haven't seen anyone get pissed that someone wouldn't use cheaterville. I say if someone wants to put someone on cheaterville, provided they are telling the truth, then go for it.

But I wouldn't bother using it myself.



> Some people don't feel its necessary to go through cheaterville, and therefore feel the experience of using it shouldn't even be a requirement to discuss it. I've never used steroids and don't plan to, but don't see why I can't join a discussion on whether or not it should be used.


You can join a discussion and put in your 2 cents worth.

But like someone said, if you haven't been directly affected by it and felt the pain of infidelity, then you really can't understand what its like.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

love=pain said:


> The day you have 20+ years of history with someone, children, financial responsibilities and everything that goes along with having a family then we will see just how *you* let things happen, it's so easy to bluster and say all the big things you would do in a situation but until you are faced with it you know nothing.


:smthumbup: :smthumbup: :smthumbup:

Man that is a priceless post there!

Well done!


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Singledude21 said:


> Like I don't like Cheaterville


Why not?

If someone hurt someone so callously, and the hurt party is telling the truth, then why not? F' em


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## Singledude21 (Feb 21, 2013)

vellocet said:


> Why not?
> 
> If someone hurt someone so callously, and the hurt party is telling the truth, then why not? F' em


Cause for me personally, me saying F' em is just not putting energy into them.

If I want you make you pay, I treat you with indifference and not anger.


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

Singledude21 said:


> Betrayed spouses let the digging of deeper dark truths, torture of R and sometimes denial of the cold hard truth happen to them. All 3 of those are a choice. You're not required to go through any of those. Some feel they must to be at peace with themselves or save their family, not knocking them for it. But I just ain't one of them. I personally don't see it wrong if I have to break my family up (divorce) if it means I can be happy and a better father.


I am one of those people that digs into details. When I found out about the affair I got all the records of what went on and I studied them. I logged how many messages were sent by the other man and then my wife. What time of day were Facebook messages at a high when one where they at a low. When was sex discussed and how often. When did they meet what days did they take place how long did they last. How often did they text message and what time of day did it happen. How often they called each other how long were the calls going on for and when did they take place. When did my wife completely give into the affair. Etc...

I had a lot of questions about what happened during the affair. I realized I would have to wait a chunk of time until the affair fog had worn off and my wife had come to her senses. So in a month or so I have a whole new set of questions I will be asking.

With me not knowing hurt more than actually knowing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Singledude21 said:


> Some people just have an easier time letting go than others, or specifically know that if they have a plan, they will go through with it regardless.


And I say BULL.

Do you know how many people told their spouse outright they would NEVER tolerate infidelity early on, only to have it happen and be left unimaginatively devastated they make choices they never thought they would before the real world dawned on them?

I use unimaginatively with great care here. People who have not been there just can't imagine the situation.

Heck, do you know how many people swore left and right they would NEVER cheat, but they ended up cheating anyways? MOST of THEM.

So yes, you can bluster, but _until you are there looking the monster in the eye you really don't' know what you are made of_.

So I say BULL. You never know what you will or won't chose to do in crisis until you are tested in that crisis.

You can bluster all you want, but I say it amounts to nothing until you get there.


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## 1812overture (Nov 25, 2013)

Singledude21 said:


> I'm a product of the opposite though. My father and mother divorced, and it both made them better parents for me and my sibling. I can say without a doubt it would not be the case had they stayed together. QUOTE]
> 
> Which is a sample size of one.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

1812 said:


> > I'm a product of the opposite though. My father and mother divorced, and it both made them better parents for me and my sibling. I can say without a doubt it would not be the case had they stayed together.[/ QUOTE]
> > Which is a sample size of one.
> 
> 
> :smthumbup: :smthumbup: :smthumbup:


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## Singledude21 (Feb 21, 2013)

Cloaked said:


> I am one of those people that digs into details. When I found out about the affair I got all the records of what went on and I studied them. I logged how many messages were sent by the other man and then my wife. What time of day were Facebook messages at a high when one where they at a low. When was sex discussed and how often. When did they meet what days did they take place how long did they last. How often did they text message and what time of day did it happen. How often they called each other how long were the calls going on for and when did they take place. When did my wife completely give into the affair. Etc...
> 
> I had a lot of questions about what happened during the affair. I realized I would have to wait a chunk of time until the affair fog had worn off and my wife had come to her senses. So in a month or so I have a whole new set of questions I will be asking.
> 
> ...


Exactly, and its understandable because like you, some people just have to know. It would otherwise hurt them with the forever unknowing. It's your choice, but a choice you felt was right and had to be made.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

The Middleman said:


> Would you ignore Marv Albert's opinion on basketball or football just because he never played the sport?


No, I'd ignore his opinion because he's a d0uchebag


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## Singledude21 (Feb 21, 2013)

1812overture said:


> Singledude21 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm a product of the opposite though. My father and mother divorced, and it both made them better parents for me and my sibling. I can say without a doubt it would not be the case had they stayed together.
> ...


One that exist though, that's the point.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

1812overture said:


> I'm not a victim, nor have I cheated, but I do not share his opinion, either. I have friends and relatives who have lived through it. I helped and am helping them as best I can. I am a married man who can't get laid, so I believe I understand the challenge of choosing self versus family, even if I can't quite understand the pain.


:thumbup:



1812overture said:


> I love the results from your Cheaterville exposure. My only question on this front is why (except in some clear circumstances) would the affair _partner_ be in line for special exposure? If the affair partner is himself/herself married, wouldn't the affair partners spouse be equally justified in deciding on Cheaterville exposure? When two married people cheat, there are two spouses who can legitimately look at the (other?) cheater as a POS. Goose/gander, and all that. (I'm wondering about the brief side conversation you just had yesterday).


Thanks!

For me, the Cheaterville issue wasn't clear cut: Cheaterville was not available in the UK when I first discovered the affair. It was maybe 8 or 9 months later it became available and, by that time, I had had plenty of time to think about my response in that respect.

The OM's own girlfriend had cheated on her marriage to be with him and already knew him as a cheater.

I did take over my wife's Facebook account and posted details of what she did (and who with, together with a picture) on there and followed this up by inviting all of her friends and family to be friends (she only had 2 on there at the time), in addition to anybody I could find that knew her posom or girlfriend - including his last girlfriend, that he cheated on to be with his still current one; so to be fair, my ex had her own personalised version of Cheaterville made especially for her.

Oh, I also emailed some particularly close people to her and her POSOM from her Facebook account letting them know precisely what they had both been up to. Part of the appallingly passive aggressive way she, in hindsight, acted after the discovery was that she point blank refused to do any sort of self exposure - so I did it for her.

I didn't want a permanent record on Cheaterville of my then wife as she is still the mother of my children, so didn't post her there and removed the Facebook account after about 2 months.



1812overture said:


> I believe it is important for my kids to see me handle life like an adult, but not a martyr. They need to see me deal with pain, and take steps to lessen that pain and hopefully eliminate it. They need to see me sacrifice. They need to see me show remorse when I behave badly.


I agree entirely. My kids have been exposed to scenes that they really shouldn't have, but they haven't ever seen me being weak when it came to this. 

I was lucky because I already had the better relationship with my kids, but I have been careful not to let this sour their relationship with their mum with respect to any of my actions.


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## Singledude21 (Feb 21, 2013)

Allen_A said:


> You can bluster all you want, but I say it amounts to nothing until you get there.


As much as there is the possiblity I COULD fall from my original stance, there is as much a case that I won't. I have stood tall til now, I'd hope I can continue to do so. Because I don't do cheaters and don't plan to. Just not who I am.

The whole point of me being on this site is so I can become well versed in the script and make my job of disconnecting MUCH easier compared to never seeing how this works and being caught offguard. You all just don't know, being here for this amount of time, every new story, new excuse from an OPs spouse, its the same thing each time. And its exactly why I like learning from here, because I want to easily call the BS my future spouse throws on me just like how most here can do so to another guy's WS. Just catch it a mile away instead of being left with your jaw on the ground in complete shock. Just being here confirmed to me I probably make the right choice in my own situation to cut the cord on a otherwise good relationship.


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## Singledude21 (Feb 21, 2013)

vellocet said:


> No, I'd ignore his opinion because he's a d0uchebag


How you don't like Marv?


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

vellocet said:


> No, I'd ignore his opinion because he's a d0uchebag


That's a different story.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Singledude21 said:


> One that exist though, that's the point.


Do you know what an o u t l i e r is???


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Singledude21 said:


> Because I don't do cheaters and don't plan to. Just not who I am.


Right, and we all planned to and do is that the point? lol

SD, I think this would be a good time for you to quit while you are behind. You really do have no idea.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Singledude21 said:


> Cause for me personally, me saying F' em is just not putting energy into them.
> 
> If I want you make you pay, I treat you with indifference and not anger.


I am the same way. But don't look down on someone that would want to out them on a site like that. 

It also depends on their pain levels. Who knows, I MIGHT have used cheaterville when I first learned of my x-wife's infidelity because it was raw and I was hella angry.

But now I wouldn't waste my time with it. But someone else who is at a different stage as me, or just someone who thinks differently as me, I wouldn't look down on them for doing so. 
Hell yes I encourage it if they want to do it. It just isn't for me to do myself.


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## Singledude21 (Feb 21, 2013)

Allen_A said:


> Right, and we all planned to and do is that the point? lol


Don't know. In fact, I'd make a wager most BS don't even think about that kind of stuff. Going into a relationship prepared to handle cheating isn't exactly normal, but something I feel I must do.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Singledude21 said:


> How you don't like Marv?


You have to ask?


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## Singledude21 (Feb 21, 2013)

vellocet said:


> I am the same way. *But don't look down on someone that would want to out them on a site like that. *


I don't though, my argument is that I feel people shouldn't look down at others who do what WE do, which is let go and forget. Cheaterville is the current topic, but this process of outing the OM is similar to other sites, not just cheaterville. Hell you can do this on facebook. I saw a lot of this in Eric's thread when people WANTED him to do stuff like cheaterville and he didn't. Then voiced their displeasure at him for NOT doing it.

This is not just here though, its actually very common. People are actually surprised if someone doesn't plan to go after AP.


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## 1812overture (Nov 25, 2013)

Chris989 said:


> :I didn't want a permanent record on Cheaterville of my then wife as she is still the mother of my children, so didn't post her there and removed the Facebook account after about 2 months.
> 
> 
> > Understandable. I guess I am asking you (or anyone who cares to answer) what if his girlfriend or wife or whatever put _your_ wife on Cheaterville? Just for the same reasons you did (even though I take it she couldn't have the same reasons). Or what if he or she does it in response to your efforts.
> ...


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

Allen_A said:


> And I say BULL.
> 
> Do you know how many people told their spouse outright they would NEVER tolerate infidelity early on, only to have it happen and be left unimaginatively devastated they make choices they never thought they would before the real world dawned on them?
> 
> ...


my WS would often talk about if I had an affair she cut off my penis or do this or that. My response to this is just if you find someone better then please just leave me don't cheat on me. I never issued any threats that if she had cheated how I would react. Cheating wasn't something I thought about.
_Posted via MY FACE!!!!_


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## Stronger-now (Oct 31, 2013)

1812overture said:


> Which is a sample size of one.


That’s not fair, is it? I cannot say much in this matter because my parents are still together, but statistics say over 40% of marriages fail. It is scary to think that there are so many children out there wish for better parents or for their parents stay to together at whatever cost. 

The truth is, none of us know exactly what we will do in a situation until we are faced with that situation. I didn’t know what I would do because I never thought I would marry a cheater. It just didn’t cross my mind. Lesson learned. Drawing from my experiences so far, I know I am strong enough not to put up with mistreatments. Singledude believes he will leave. Maybe he will, maybe he won’t if knock on woods it happens to him. But that doesn’t mean what he believes now is not valid. He has walked away from a relationship before, granted easier to walk away from a year long relationship compared to 20 year one. But he draws his conclusion based on his experiences. He believes he will make a great father even if he must divorce his wife in the future, he draws this conclusion based on his experiences. It is the same with anyone here who reconciles and believes that they will definitely leave if their spouse cheats again. They just don’t know that, they didn’t walk away the first time it happened. Those who believe they can be a better parent by staying, will that change after the second affair? Third affair? Some may change their minds and leave at the end, some just learn to deal and stay. But their belief now that they are a better parent for staying is still valid too.

Off topic btw, my objective mind tells me this: staying with an unfaithful partner for the kids sake kinda beats the argument that there is nothing worse than a betrayal in a marriage. I believe we won’t tell someone to stay with an abusive spouse for their kids sake? Even if the abusive person promise to change, do whatever necessary to change, I will still advice an abused woman to flee for her life. Sure some abusive people change, but I will not tell a woman to hang in there and see if he will change.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Singledude21 said:


> Don't know. In fact, I'd make a wager most BS don't even think about that kind of stuff. Going into a relationship prepared to handle cheating isn't exactly normal, but something I feel I must do.


I dunno, you are reading like you think us BS are a bunch of gullible, blind, doormats that "let" infidelity happen to us... that we "plan" on getting lied to and exploited.

That may not be what you want us to hear, but that is how it reads in my opinion... Just a lot of bluster from someone who has no experience with the subject directly.

In my opinion there really isnt' anything you can do to prepare yourself for infidelity, other than making very careful choices and keeping your eyes open, which most of us DO think we are doing to begin with.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Cloaked said:


> my WS would often talk about if I had an affair she cut off my penis or do this or that. My response to this is just if you find someone better then please just leave me don't cheat on me. I never issued any threats that if she had cheated how I would react. Cheating wasn't something I thought about.
> _Posted via MY FACE!!!!_


And what happened?


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## Singledude21 (Feb 21, 2013)

Allen_A said:


> I dunno, you are reading like you think us BS are a bunch of gullible, blind, doormats that "let" infidelity happen to us... that we "plan" on getting lied to and exploited.
> 
> That may not be what you want us to hear, but that is how it reads in my opinion...


Definitely not my intention at all. I've even said, you guys are literally my teachers. I'm learning from you because I want to be prepared. Stuff that you guys apply to on TAM everyday, I want to not even need to have to make a new thread and ask for help.

Just go to the back of my head and access it on the fly, to already know about 180, cheater script, the signs of having the affair, etc.

My biggest fear IS to be the doormat, because I know I can be if I allowed it, I can be too nice for my own good. So this is me building my shield for the future. The one thing I've learned is that ANYBODY can be cheated on. You can't prevent that. But I can prevent not being educated enough in this to not recognize it while its under my noise. And that's the worst part, thinking everything is ok and its not.


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

Allen_A said:


> And what happened?


She cheated. me thinks she protested too much!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Singledude21 said:


> Definitely not my intention at all. I've even said, you guys are literally my teachers. I'm learning from you because I want to be prepared. Stuff that you guys apply to on TAM everyday, I want to not even need to have to make a new thread and ask for help.
> 
> Just go to the back of my head and access it on the fly, to already know about 180, cheater script, the signs of having the affair, etc.
> 
> My biggest fear IS to be the doormat, because I know I can be if I allowed it, I can be too nice for my own good. So this is me building my shield for the future.


The thing is SD, you can have all that ammunition, but when you get hit on DDay many of us just FREEZE. IT's a traumatic shock to the system.

So you can collect all the tactics you want, and be confident you will use them, but trust me on that day when it happens you wont' know what will happen.

It's much like a soldier preparing for war. You can do all the military run throughs and training you want, you can fire your rifle and hit the target as many tiems as you want, but when you are there, in the field and you are face to face with this head on many of us react in very different ways than we thought.

This happens to soldiers in war as well. They think they are ready, they had LOTS Of training, but on the field it amounts to nothing other than your character. And you won't know who that is (in my opinion) until you get hit on DDay.

You can say you are preparing. You can say you wont' accept a cheater back, but you really don't know what you will do when you get hit. It completely changes your life and who you are.

Some people change for the better and rise to the challenge, others don't. You don't know who you will change into until it happens to you.

Honestly, with all due respect, you wont' know who you will be until DDay hits.

You can speak with all the confidence you want to, but until it happens to you, you dont' know what you are made of. The infidelity challenges your innermost character to change.

What that change will be you won't know until the day it happens.

And I will warn you, that the "shield" you are creating, may just derail your marriage before it even starts. Going into a marriage with trust issues already sets you at a disadvantage. And that sounds like it's exactly what you are doing is creating trust issues reading all these cases every day.

Its' a nasty business, but 

If you can't trust, your marriage is at high risk to fail.
If you do trust, your marriage is at risk to fail.

Honestly, it's just a dilemma and you have to ride it out.


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## Stronger-now (Oct 31, 2013)

1812overture said:


> *Understandable. I guess I am asking you (or anyone who cares to answer) what if his girlfriend or wife or whatever put your wife on Cheaterville? Just for the same reasons you did (even though I take it she couldn't have the same reasons). Or what if he or she does it in response to your efforts.*
> 
> Perhaps he doesn't have kids, and I tread lightly asking you to comment on a hypothetical, but no doubt many exposed on Cheaterville are mothers. I'm just wondering how you justify exposing him, and reveling in it (and again, it is a job well done!), while deciding that your wife doesn't "deserve" that kind of continued exposure.
> 
> Again, in the hypothetical, because it seems that guy and his girlfriend made a game of it, and you won the game.


That's what I wonder too when I looked on that website. Most of them are probably mothers and fathers. How would their children feel to see it? Sure, our brain tells us that it's their cheating mother and father that caused them pain and humiliation. But what about our heart toward their innocent children? I can understand the anger that may drive anyone to post on Cheaterville. I get the an eye for an eye, humiliate me and I will humiliate you too. I just think, I wouldn't want my kids to see their father there...no matter what he did to me. If I post one of his married AP on there, what if the husband post my husband there too? I will not do to others what I don't want them to do to me too. Sometimes bad things happen to me even though I have never done it to someone else before, but that's life right? It can be so unfair sometimes.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Cloaked said:


> She cheated. me thinks she protested too much!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And I guess that's my point.

Talk and bluster means nothing.

Who you are in crisis, when you look temptation in the eye is when you find out what you are made of.

There is no way to prepare or be able to predict that ahead of time.


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## Singledude21 (Feb 21, 2013)

Allen_A said:


> And I will warn you, that the "shield" you are creating, may just derail your marriage before it even starts. Going into a marriage with trust issues already sets you at a disadvantage. And that sounds like it's exactly what you are doing is creating trust issues reading all these cases every day.
> 
> Its' a nasty business, but
> 
> ...


Definitely can agree to that. But you just hear and see so much...It's like just trying to create something and you're looking at a good chance to fail. My family situation was the cold hard truth that taught me you can do everything right in the marriage, and still get got all because the other was selfish and it was available.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Allen_A said:


> And I guess that's my point.
> 
> Talk and bluster means nothing.
> 
> ...


Yes and no. It's alway safe to say that you don't kow how you will react to something until it happens to you because it's common sense that no one cna predict the future. That goes for cheaters as well as the betrayed. 

However, people of strong character and conviction can, with some degree of certainty, predict their reaction to an event. Again, this goes for both cheaters as well as the betrayed. There is no denying that certain people, no matter what the temptation is will not cheat; period. There is also no denying that there are some people out there who know the actions they will take if their spouse cheats (what ever action that may be). I think it's safe to say we all know these kind of people. Add to this, the fact that posters here (betrayed or not) are well versed in the subject of infidelity, they may have their reactions pre-planed. It is possible. And that's the beauty of this site. The non betrayed are learning.

As far as Cheaterville goes, I can say with a degree of certainty that I would put my spouse AND the OM on there if I were betrayed and I have the proof. Why can I say that? Because I know I'm a vindictive person; past experience has proven that, just not in the area of infidelity (so to speak). Also, my spouse knows this about me and knows what the reaction would be. She was reminded of it, rather abruptly, a few years ago when she was having contact with an EX behind my back.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Singledude21 said:


> I don't though, my argument is that I feel people shouldn't look down at others who do what WE do, which is let go and forget.


But who is doing that? I may see disagreement, but I don't think anyone looks down on refraining from using such a site.


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## love=pain (Nov 26, 2012)

Singledude21 said:


> Definitely can agree to that. But you just hear and see so much...It's like just trying to create something and you're looking at a good chance to fail. My family situation was the cold hard truth that taught me you can do everything right in the marriage, and still get got all because the other was selfish and it was available.


SD
I would worry reading these horror stories will jade future relationships you may have, as someone who lost it let me tell you there is nothing so comforting as having complete unwavering trust in someone and nothing so sad as walking around without it.
Complete trust means complete love without trust you can love but something is always missing.
My humble advice in any relationship you may have don't ignore any dark skies, thinking the storm will pass no matter how small will lead to destruction, face them together, find solutions together and hope for the best.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

love=pain said:


> SD
> I would worry reading these horror stories will jade future relationships you may have, as someone who lost it let me tell you there is nothing so comforting as having complete unwavering trust in someone and nothing so sad as walking around without it.
> Complete trust means complete love without trust you can love but something is always missing.
> My humble advice in any relationship you may have don't ignore any dark skies, thinking the storm will pass no matter how small will lead to destruction, face them together, find solutions together and hope for the best.


:smthumbup: :smthumbup: :smthumbup:


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

love=pain said:


> SD
> There is nothing so comforting as having complete unwavering trust in someone and nothing so sad as walking around without it.
> Complete trust means complete love without trust you can love but something is always missing.


I would add to this a bit :
_
There is nothing so comforting as having complete unwavering trust in someone; and nothing so painful as losing it.

Complete love means complete trust. Without trust you can love but something will always feel missing to both of you.
_


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

1812overture said:


> Chris989 said:
> 
> 
> > :I didn't want a permanent record on Cheaterville of my then wife as she is still the mother of my children, so didn't post her there and removed the Facebook account after about 2 months.
> ...


If his girlfriend posted my ex wife (we are still living together with the children) then I wouldn't have any problem at all with it.

It would be good to see somebody else other than me do something about this!

He does have kids, as does his girlfriend.

Quite bizarrely, on my 2nd - and major - Dday anniversary last year, his girlfriend rang somebody that shares the same name as my ex where my ex works - thinking it was her.

She was ranting about the Cheaterville posting and how it "upset the children" (meaning HER children). My ex rang her back (she had to, to prevent her ringing the wrong woman again) and she offloaded about the NC letter (which I wrote and sent anyway) and called the Cheaterville posting "harassment". I posted about it somewhere on here at the time.

I won't go on, but it was a big insight into how people deal with cheating differently. If you want to know more, I will post more as there is quite a bit more to the story, including a marginally famous sportsman in the UK but don't want to bore you 

After that, the OM's GF had him contact a lawyer and have the cowards at Google censor the link - although in hindsight it was the best thing that could possibly have happened!

It's a funny old world isn't it...

Edit: Here is the link from when I posted some of what happened last year: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/76642-oms-gf-causing-trouble-year-after-dday.html (I have done an update post at the end of that thread)


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

The Middleman said:


> Yes and no. It's alway safe to say that you don't kow how you will react to something until it happens to you because it's common sense that no one cna predict the future. Thatu goes for cheaters as well as the betrayed.
> 
> However, people of strong character and conviction can, with some degree of certainty, predict their reaction to an event. Again, this goes for both cheaters as well as the betrayed. There is no denying that certain people, no matter what the temptation is will not cheat; period. There is also no denying that there are some people out there who know the actions they will take if their spouse cheats (what ever action that may be). I think it's safe to say we all know these kind of people. Add to this, the fact that posters here (betrayed or not) are well versed in the subject of infidelity, they may have their reactions pre-planed. It is possible. And that's the beauty of this site. The non betrayed are learning.
> 
> As far as Cheaterville goes, I can say with a degree of certainty that I would put my spouse AND the OM on there if I were betrayed and I have the proof. Why can I say that? Because I know I'm a vindictive person; past experience has proven that, just not in the area of infidelity (so to speak). Also, my spouse knows this about me and knows what the reaction would be. She was reminded of it, rather abruptly, a few years ago when she was having contact with an EX behind my back.


This is true. I always knew what i would do, and i did it. I left. My friends and family did the same. This issue is how well do u know yourself?

And some people simply are not cheaters. No matter what. They have both high morals and boundaries.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Something I don't understand is why the cheaterville hits on Google go so high? Are people's names that unique? 

I do not have a common surname - even then, there are 7 people in my state with the same name, one other that has the same middle name. I'm the 117th person on Facebook with the same full first and last name as their user name. When I interviewed for a job 5 years ago, the recruiter mentioned that they came up with 3 felons with the same first, middle and last name but could tell it wasn't me by where we lived. One even was on the lamb at the time. How is cheaterville going to compete with several lawyers and several doctors with my name competing for the top spot - I can tell by the search results they are using services to bump them up.


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## Stronger-now (Oct 31, 2013)

illwill said:


> This is true. I always knew what i would do, and i did it. I left. My friends and family did the same. *This issue is how well do u know yourself?*
> 
> And some people simply are not cheaters. No matter what. They have both high morals and boundaries.


True. The decision to R or D all depends on the BS personality and tolerance for pain. Some people are not afraid of being alone and actually enjoy their own company, some people will work harder to stay for fear of the unknowns. Some people value their material possession so much so that they would rather stay than leave. We have different priorities in life. But the most important thing I believe is, everyone will leave once the pain of staying overwhelms their fear. We won't deal with what we simply cannot deal and accept. 

We may disagree on the best course of action to take here. But at the end of the day, each of us has to live with the our decision whatever that be. I decided to leave, I didn't choose to. I don't look at other options longingly and wish I chose them. There are no other options for me. I wouldn't be able to look at myself in the mirror if I allowed me to stay. I bet it's the same with those who decide to reconcile. They are happy with their decision, leaving is simply not an option. 

I am just glad that a site like TAM exists. In the midst of intense gaslight and blame-shift, I wish there was someone, anyone who could back me up that I was not crazy to continue thinking there was something wrong in my marriage. It just did not make any sense, but I was told that I had to let it go and work harder on my marriage by that sh*tty MC we paid a lot of money for. When you almost believe that the problem is you, it really helps that a stranger tells you from the outside looking in, you have every reason to be suspicious because it is suspicious. Most of us here were not well versed with the cheater scripts going into a marriage.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Cloaked said:


> my WS would often talk about if I had an affair she cut off my penis or do this or that.


Well when she ended up cheating herself, did you say, "You told me once that if I cheated you'd cut my penis off. So perhaps I should cut your tits off and sew your vagina shut??"


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