# Married To A Nasty Woman



## marriageontherocks2 (Oct 4, 2017)

As I hit late 30's and 40's I'm starting to realize how nasty my wife can be and I'm exhausted by it.

Last night I come home at 6:00 PM from work, she's with my daughter at soccer practice, I do the dishes, straighten up the house. She comes in and immediately starts in because one of her shows didn't record and I must've canceled it, yelling, rude. Then she leaves to pick up a pizza, I offered to get it but instead of accepting my offer being a passive aggressive martyr is a better solution. She sees there's no wine and starts yelling when all she has to do is ask if I'll grab some while she changes. This morning my daughter is taking too long to get out the door making her lunch, instead of my wife just saying "let's go, buy lunch today" she throws her book bag out of the door screaming her head off.

It's like this every single day. In the summer I spend a lot of my time on the property, in the fall and winter I basically do all the house cleaning. This past weekend I cleaned the house top to bottom while she took Yoga training all weekend for 8 hours each day, I don't know what she expects at this point, but I'm pulling 80% of the weight financially and chores wise, and she's just mean, and if she has to do ANYTHING and I'm sitting she's unbearable to be around.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Sounds to me like she is not the only martyr in the family.

Next time she loses her cool over something that is more in her lane than yours, calmly tell her that she will now be 100% responsible for it, and that you will not longer have any part of it. 

Why are you afraid of your wife?

Please read the book No Mister Nice Guy.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Is this what you want of out a marriage, a partner, a wife? Sounds like she has anger issues, and it also sounds like you don't have much of a back bone. I suggest some heavy counseling ASAP....does she drink a lot? is this something she has always been (angry)?


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

marriageontherocks2 said:


> As I hit late 30's and 40's I'm starting to realize how nasty my wife can be and I'm exhausted by it.
> 
> Last night I come home at 6:00 PM from work, she's with my daughter at soccer practice, I do the dishes, straighten up the house. She comes in and immediately starts in because one of her shows didn't record and I must've canceled it, yelling, rude. Then she leaves to pick up a pizza, I offered to get it but instead of accepting my offer being a passive aggressive martyr is a better solution. She sees there's no wine and starts yelling when all she has to do is ask if I'll grab some while she changes. This morning my daughter is taking too long to get out the door making her lunch, instead of my wife just saying "let's go, buy lunch today" she throws her book bag out of the door screaming her head off.
> 
> It's like this every single day. In the summer I spend a lot of my time on the property, in the fall and winter I basically do all the house cleaning. This past weekend I cleaned the house top to bottom while she took Yoga training all weekend for 8 hours each day, I don't know what she expects at this point, but I'm pulling 80% of the weight financially and chores wise, and she's just mean, and if she has to do ANYTHING and I'm sitting she's unbearable to be around.


You have had three threads running on tam.
In one you tell how your wife had an affair,you split up for two years but you forgave her but ironically she resents you.
You also told how she went back to college without any discussion just after the two of you bought a house,leaving you with all the added expense of a mortgage and no income from her.
You told how your wife thought it was creepy for a man to join a yoga class,now you say she takes yoga for days at a time so she obviously doesn’t want you there.
You asked members of tam do they like their wives to be ****ty.
Now you tell us she emotionally abuses you and screams at the children.
Have you any back bone at all?


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

Well the jerk in me is saying buy her one of those "nasty woman" t-shirts and hand it to her with divorce papers. 

Probably the better approach is to write down on a piece of paper all the things you want to say to her. All the things she does or is doing that is making your life miserable. Sit her down and air out your list. The end of the conversation has to be about the horrible communication you guys have and the ultimatum between marriage counseling or a trip to your local divorce lawyers office. 

Time to stand up for yourself. You are charged with your own happiness in life. It is nobody else's responsibility to make that happen for you. If you aren't happy, start making changes that will get you there. Sometimes divorce is the best option to reach that goal. She might have already checked out and may be too far gone to make things work.


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## marriageontherocks2 (Oct 4, 2017)

I do have a backbone, we've been fighting and making up for 16 years. I've just decided it's not worth the arguments and pushing back anymore because her actions aren't rational or reasonable, no point in pushing back against crazy. I'm going to live my life calmly and positively, not engage in her B.S. everyday. Now I just ignore it, she'll end up apologizing, but there comes a point where if you were really sorry for the behavior you would stop doing it, or at least make an effort to stop doing it.

I do the laundry, cleaning, etc... because I like a nice clean house and laundry in its place. I re-did my kitchen because I have the skills and saved 25K. I don't ask anything of her, I don't care if I do more heavy lifting, I have a high capacity for work. It's the nasty attitude that's got me at my wits end at this point.


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## marriageontherocks2 (Oct 4, 2017)

Andy1001 said:


> You have had three threads running on tam.
> In one you tell how your wife had an affair,you split up for two years but you forgave her but ironically she resents you.


That was 14 years ago, we're not the only ones to continue a marriage after an affair.



Andy1001 said:


> You also told how she went back to college without any discussion just after the two of you bought a house,leaving you with all the added expense of a mortgage and no income from her.


In the context of a different topic, yes this is what I said, what's the point?



Andy1001 said:


> You told how your wife thought it was creepy for a man to join a yoga class,now you say she takes yoga for days at a time so she obviously doesn’t want you there.


Actually she explicitly said she wants me to go to her studio, and if I go with her it wouldn't be creepy. I think she's jealous and worried about me going to a studio by my office with women there.



Andy1001 said:


> You asked members of tam do they like their wives to be ****ty.


Light hearted topic, totally out of context here...

You are taking a lot of things out of context, reducing them to fit your narrative, two of the things were light hearted topics, one in the Social Spot. not sure of your agenda...


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

marriageontherocks2 said:


> I do have a backbone, we've been fighting and making up for 16 years. I've just decided it's not worth the arguments and pushing back anymore because her actions aren't rational or reasonable, no point in pushing back against crazy. I'm going to live my life calmly and positively, not engage in her B.S. everyday. Now I just ignore it, she'll end up apologizing, but there comes a point where if you were really sorry for the behavior you would stop doing it, or at least make an effort to stop doing it.
> 
> I do the laundry, cleaning, etc... because I like a nice clean house and laundry in its place. I re-did my kitchen because I have the skills and saved 25K. I don't ask anything of her, I don't care if I do more heavy lifting, I have a high capacity for work. It's the nasty attitude that's got me at my wits end at this point.


You enable her behavior by not setting the boundary that her behavior is unacceptable. So your sitting back and not engaging, just waiting for an apology doesn't work obviously. 

Ultimatum. Marriage counseling, or divorce attorney. Her choice.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

You really think your wife, who has a history of cheating and clearly doesn't even like much less love you, is at yoga for 8 hrs a day each day of the weekend? Really?


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## marriageontherocks2 (Oct 4, 2017)

MJJEAN said:


> You really think your wife, who has a history of cheating and clearly doesn't even like much less love you, is at yoga for 8 hrs a day each day of the weekend? Really?


She is, the studio is right down the road from my house, it's one weekend a month, 200 hour yoga training.

If anything this topic is a good study in how differently men and women are treated under similar circumstances.

Don't you have a history of cheating? Does that mean that you're incapable of being a faithful wife ever?


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

MJJEAN said:


> You really think your wife, who has a history of cheating and clearly doesn't even like much less love you, is at yoga for 8 hrs a day each day of the weekend? Really?


My ex wife did the whole long yoga days, and she...oh wait...


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

You strike me as codependent.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

@marriageontherocks2 your history and current situation sounds a lot like @knobcreek's . Not saying you're him but you should check out his history. It's uncanny. 

As to your issues.....she is who she is, you are who you are. You don't have to like the way she behaves but you also can't force her to change. The only person you can change is you. If her behavior bothers you, then remove yourself from the situation/environment so you don't have to be around her. If she speaks to you disrespectfully, tell her you won't engage her unless she changes her tune.

ETA: She must have a bangin' bod if she's doing yoga for 200+ hours a month.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

marriageontherocks2 said:


> I do have a backbone, *we've been fighting and making up for 16 years*. I've just decided it's not worth the arguments and pushing back anymore because *her actions aren't rational or reasonable*, no point in pushing back against crazy. I'm going to live my life calmly and positively, not engage in her B.S. everyday. Now I just ignore it, she'll end up apologizing, but there comes a point where if you were really sorry for the behavior you would stop doing it, or at least make an effort to stop doing it.


You've been in a high drama relationship, fighting and making up over and over for the better part of _two decades_. Your wife is clearly not the only one whose actions aren't rational or reasonable. 

Obviously, something about this high drama dynamic has been working for you. If not, then you would have left long ago. The fact that you're finally exhausted from it all is a sign that you may actually be maturing into a more emotionally healthy and stable individual yourself. Honestly, I would recommend IC. For you. Sure, your wife needs it, but you can only change yourself. Figure out why you've been putting up with, perhaps even thriving on, such an volatile and unstable relationship for so long. And why, instead of ending it, you seem to have opted for a passive martyr role as your "solution". Nothing changes if nothing changes. Are you prepared to live this way the rest of your life? Are you prepared to have your children live this way for the rest of their childhoods?


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

marriageontherocks2 said:


> She is, the studio is right down the road from my house, it's one weekend a month, 200 hour yoga training.
> 
> If anything this topic is a good study in how differently men and women are treated under similar circumstances.
> 
> Don't you have a history of cheating? Does that mean that you're incapable of being a faithful wife ever?


This isn't a gender thing. I'd look askance at anyone who had a history of cheating, treated their spouse like absolute ****, and then spent 8 hrs a day on the weekend days elsewhere.

Yes, I had multiple affairs during my first marriage. I was married to a man I barely tolerated and was quite nasty to when he did annoying things like breathe wrong. I spent a lot of time avoiding his presence if I could. Sound familiar? I stopped having affairs when I left the marriage to be with an AP I fell in love with and have been faithful to him for nearly two decades. Could your wife be a faithful wife? Sure. Anything is possible. But can she be a faithful wife to _you_? Judging by the descriptions of your wife's behavior here, I wouldn't bet on it.


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

marriageontherocks2 said:


> If anything this topic is a good study in how differently men and women are treated under similar circumstances.


How so?



marriageontherocks2 said:


> Don't you have a history of cheating? Does that mean that you're incapable of being a faithful wife ever?


Once you cheat, the title of faithful spouse goes out the window forever imo. You can make a one time mistake and never do it again, but you still lost the title of faithful spouse forever.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

marriageontherocks2 said:


> You are taking a lot of things out of context, reducing them to fit your narrative, two of the things were light hearted topics, one in the Social Spot. not sure of your agenda...


For what's worth, I think that Andy's post was helpful because your wife's history in your marriage is indeed relevant.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

I have no agenda my friend if you are willing to live like this then I won?t post on your thread again. 
Maybe read the advice you have been getting instead of attacking people who unlike you can see the wood from the trees.


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

The choice is up to you. If there is a part of you that enjoys the abuse, then that's fine. People are into unusual stuff, and I say "To each his own." But to pretend that you're complaining about it and engage others unwittingly in the fantasy is just a waste of everyone's time.


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## 482 (Mar 14, 2017)

marriageontherocks2 said:


> As I hit late 30's and 40's I'm starting to realize how nasty my wife can be and I'm exhausted by it.
> 
> Last night I come home at 6:00 PM from work, she's with my daughter at soccer practice, I do the dishes, straighten up the house. She comes in and immediately starts in because one of her shows didn't record and I must've canceled it, yelling, rude. Then she leaves to pick up a pizza, I offered to get it but instead of accepting my offer being a passive aggressive martyr is a better solution. She sees there's no wine and starts yelling when all she has to do is ask if I'll grab some while she changes. This morning my daughter is taking too long to get out the door making her lunch, instead of my wife just saying "let's go, buy lunch today" she throws her book bag out of the door screaming her head off.
> 
> It's like this every single day. In the summer I spend a lot of my time on the property, in the fall and winter I basically do all the house cleaning. This past weekend I cleaned the house top to bottom while she took Yoga training all weekend for 8 hours each day, I don't know what she expects at this point, but I'm pulling 80% of the weight financially and chores wise, and she's just mean, and if she has to do ANYTHING and I'm sitting she's unbearable to be around.


Not much to say that everyone has not already said. Here is some tough love, grow a pair! Demand respect! Reading this post makes me cringe. 

Set some boundaries and never bend on them, ever!

Stop doing everything and enabling her bad behavior. Its one thing if you SO appreciates what you do but its another thing all together if they take you for granted and treat you like ****.

Read the books recommended. Start here http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-better-man-better-partner.html 

Get comfortable with the idea you can divorce her and find happiness elsewhere, kick her off that pedestal you have her on! 

Realize you are responsible for your own happiness 

Skip the housework for some man stuff. This is not to say you should just get out and do some macho stuff (even thought thats not a bad thing) Its so you can form some trusting relationships with men you can turn to for advice and support. Women almost aways have this men often do not. 

Realize her approval in the for of appreciation or good moods is not something you should be seeking

Get pissed off and show it! Its ok to be mad at someone who consistently makes you mad buy crossing your boundaries. Let them know you are mad. Let them know its not going to happen. 

Get comfortable in uncomfortable situations. Her anger is not your anger. Don't let her effect you so much.

If you do all of this one of two things will happen

1 - She will respond to your new demand for respect with respect and the relationship will improve

2 - She will respond to your new demand for respect with the same ****ty behavior and you will be in a much better position to find happiness in other areas of your life and your next relationship.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

you are a peacemaker, you don't make waves, you let her rant and you just take the high road....as dr. phil would say "how's that working for you?" honestly you don't have a back bone, you say you do but you really don't you stay in a marriage where she cheated...i don't care how long ago, you took her back and now she makes you life miserable......maybe you read somewhere that the Meek Shall Inherit the Earth....but let me in on a secret everyone dies first. Don't you think its time to take over your life, and have some respect for yourself, because clearly she doesn't have respect for you.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

farsidejunky said:


> Sounds to me like she is not the only martyr in the family.
> 
> Next time she loses her cool over something that is more in her lane than yours, calmly tell her that she will now be 100% responsible for it, and that you will not longer have any part of it.
> 
> ...


And buy her a copy of Dance of Anger.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Yoga for 8 hrs a day....?


Uhmmm.....


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Satya said:


> Yoga for 8 hrs a day....?
> 
> 
> Uhmmm.....


I'm going to extend the benefit of the doubt as far as to assume that she's in training to become a yoga instructor. That requires some pretty hefty time commitments, and might legitimately result in several weekends worth of 8-hour days.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Rowan said:


> I'm going to extend the benefit of the doubt as far as to assume that she's in training to become a yoga instructor. That requires some pretty hefty time commitments, and might legitimately result in several weekends worth of 8-hour days.


My ex wife easily spent eight hours a day on the weekends when she was training to become a yoga instructor, and she...oh wait...


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

If nothing else, do something about her temper tantrums because no child should have to be exposed to that crap. Protect your child/children. You want to take the crap? Fine. But, you don't have a right to force children to live with it.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Lila said:


> @marriageontherocks2 your history and current situation sounds a lot like @knobcreek's . Not saying you're him but you should check out his history. It's uncanny.
> 
> As to your issues.....she is who she is, you are who you are. You don't have to like the way she behaves but you also can't force her to change. The only person you can change is you. If her behavior bothers you, then remove yourself from the situation/environment so you don't have to be around her. If she speaks to you disrespectfully, tell her you won't engage her unless she changes her tune.
> 
> ETA: *She must have a bangin' bod if she's doing yoga for 200+ hours a month.*


Whach'a matter with you, Willis?

A bangin' body?

That invites the snide remarks....
Such as: "Who is doin' the bangin' " !


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

On nasty women, not her.

Women who are unhappy, frustrated, tired...... turn on those closest to them.
Women are generally a lot more emotional then men.

Men are more reactionary. They grumble and mumble under their breath. They too can be mean.
But, usually only when poked, and when drunk.


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## marriageontherocks2 (Oct 4, 2017)

It's not 8 hours of straight yoga, they're yoga teaching training courses, typically 200 hour and 500 hour, they run them on the weekends (one weekend a month) and a lot is classroom led, showing how to teach the movements etc... I've brought her coffee a few times to the studio while she's there, bought her the books, it's legit. Maybe she's skipping out and cheating on me, but anyone can speculate that.

I am in IC, and divorcing for a man is not the same as for a woman. You don't just divorce the shrew you're married to, you in a way divorce your kids, many friends, your community, and your financial stability.

My wife isn't just nasty 100% of the time, there are many times she's extremely affectionate, if she was nasty like this 24 X 7, yes I would've been gone. She shows love, without it I wouldn't be here.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Nasty women get more media attention.

This behavior flies in the face of the generally accepted notion of: nurturing, warm-hearted Moms and wives.

Namely, those on display in Target department stores. Those notions of women are placed in the minds of young boys.
And in targeted literature.

But, never seen displayed on the walls of the Department of Justice.

Again, women are men without the hose. 
Without the fist.
They have their words, their tongues and their closed thighs.

And let's face it Folks. They do a pretty damn good job with these things.
They are not handicapped, Nay, they are handy slappers.

I would just, well die, if 'they' were to go.
Go by the wayside.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

My first husband was an angry man. I would never live with an angry person again.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Your wife is spoiled and eats out a lot because she lacks discipline.

She needs to pitch in to run the household. You are doing both.

Why are you doing both? Why have you tolerated this so long. I do think it is a matter of the frog in the pot. You didn't see the end and adapted over time, until you are left being responsible for work and keeping the house up.

But your wife does something. She takes your child to activites. That is something, but not enough.

Your food budget must be astronomical. She eats out so much, because she doesn't plan meals ahead of time. Or because you don't plan the meals for her ahead of time.

Do you want to have a more even distribution of the work load? You are going to have to step back from your situation, really listen to people's comments, get the big picture, and begin to implement a plan to get some equity of the division of labor in your home...never mind respect.

Putting her on a budget for food expenses is a start. Tell her to start shopping, planning and cooking if she wants to eat, but no more eating out when she fails to plan ahead.

She will balk, but that is just the tip of the iceberg of your marital problems. If you plan to just suck it up as you said in your post, then why did you even post this thread. Obviously it bothers you, and IT SHOULD!

The two of you need to get into counseling, and face that (those) elephants standing in the middle of the room, as well as clean up under the rug.


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## 482 (Mar 14, 2017)

marriageontherocks2 said:


> I am in IC, and divorcing for a man is not the same as for a woman. You don't just divorce the shrew you're married to, you in a way divorce your kids, many friends, your community, and your financial stability.
> 
> My wife isn't just nasty 100% of the time, there are many times she's extremely affectionate, if she was nasty like this 24 X 7, yes I would've been gone. She shows love, without it I wouldn't be here.


You are not just putting her on a pedestal but you have convinced yourself you have to live with this behavior. You have taken you seeking your happiness, even if it means leaving her, off the table. She knows this and it contributes to the problem of her not respecting you. 

I'm glad she is not like this all the time that would be horrible. Just be careful how you respond to it so you're not saying "Its ok you can lose your **** and treat me like you have no respect for me and I will offer to go get the pizza and clean the kitchen" Its not a good message. If she is not like this often she may just need you to listen to her and the outburst may have nothing to do with what she is talking about (does not seem to be the case). If she is like this often she may need to be put in her place by you and your boundaries. Get mad if its necessary. Let her know this is not ok with you to act this way over such trivial things. Once your message is delivered leave or refuse to argue with her about it. If you chose the latter be firm and present. Reference back to your message, state its how you feel about this and there is nothing to argue about, feeling are feelings. Don't need her to be happy so you can be. Let her be mad at you and do not go back on your boundaries ever. If she crossed one, let her know, be mad if its warranted or just explain if its not, never go back on them or apologize for them, ever. 

You can throw this all away as useless information. This is just what I would do and its highly effective in my life. Not just my romantic life but in business and friendships as well. This is something I had to learn and is still hard for me at times.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

SunCMars said:


> Whach'a matter with you, Willis?
> 
> A bangin' body?
> 
> ...


Don't know who's doing the bangin' but I do know men in general. Their tolerance for bull**** goes up the hotter the woman. I am 100% sure OP would be singing a different tune if his wife was overweight or ugly.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

How's the sex? Must be amazing to put up with crazy. Actually, I can't imagine you two being initiate, in any such way. And you've probably been sexless for years. 

What are you getting out of this marriage? A babysistter? You can buy those. Money? You can make more of it. A house? You can build a new and better one. Get a divorce, be a man. I was married to an abusive miserable woman for 8 years. I finally divorced her and am loving life again. Just do it and don't look back. Regret is a terrible thing to have and you will have it once your prime years are wasted with this woman.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Lila said:


> Don't know who's doing the bangin' but I do know men in general. Their tolerance for bull**** goes up the hotter the woman. I am 100% sure OP would be singing a different tune if his wife was overweight or ugly.


Wow!

A giant step for feminine notions.
A giant slap for men and their kind.

Truth be told?

You are right, but not on the 100 percent.
There are still plenty of men who are happily married, to very plump, very homely ladies.

There still remains that elusive, hard to place quality that plain women, who are greatly loved and admired have; that quality that attracts and holds men firm to them.


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## C3156 (Jun 13, 2012)

marriageontherocks2 said:


> As I hit late 30's and 40's I'm starting to realize how nasty my wife can be and I'm exhausted by it....It's like this every single day. In the summer I spend a lot of my time on the property, in the fall and winter I basically do all the house cleaning. This past weekend I cleaned the house top to bottom while she took Yoga training all weekend for 8 hours each day, I don't know what she expects at this point, but I'm pulling 80% of the weight financially and chores wise, and she's just mean, and if she has to do ANYTHING and I'm sitting she's unbearable to be around.


And why do you want to live your life like this? If you have a high tolerance for work, just do the work and quit *****ing about it. If you want your wife to have some boundaries I suggest that you take some action to enforce some boundaries. 

Personally, I don't want to deal with someone who has a constant bad attitude. Life is to short to have to deal with that all the time.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriageontherocks2 said:


> If anything this topic is a good study in how differently men and women are treated under similar circumstances.


How does this show some difference?

Your wife is abusive. Some women have husbands who are abusive.

You are being told to stand up for yourself and stop allowing yourself to be verbally/emotionally abused.

Women are in verbally/emotionally abusive relationships are told the same thing.

You are being told to end your marriage with your verbally/emotionally abusive wife.

Women are in verbally/emotionally abusive relationships are told the same thing.

Both men and women in the type of situation you are in allow themselves to be abused. You have the ability to file for divorce, just as a woman does. If you choose to stay, you are choosing to stay in an abusive relationship, just like any woman who stays in this type of situation.

You cannot change your wife. Just like I could not change my abusive husband. I left and filed for divorce. What is your choice? Stay? Leave?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Also, if I were you, I'd plant a few nanny cams in the house and get her on video acting like that. Then put together a video of her screaming at you and the children. (check the video recording laws in your state.)

There are a few things that you could do with that video.

Put it online and share it with family members, friends and your wife. Let her and others see what she'd like behind closed doors. This might just work out well as in intervention that will get her to go get the help she needs to stop treating everyone around her like this.

See what you attorney will do with it to help you get more time with your children.

Or take the video to an organization that helps victims of abuse. let them look at it. They just might report your wife to CPS. It could help you in the divorce too.


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## 482 (Mar 14, 2017)

C3156 said:


> And why do you want to live your life like this? If you have a high tolerance for work, just do the work and quit *****ing about it. If you want your wife to have some boundaries I suggest that you take some action to enforce some boundaries.
> 
> Personally, I don't want to deal with someone who has a constant bad attitude. Life is to short to have to deal with that all the time.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwbKYcBdVyk


That video is a riot LMAO


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

It's very simple. Why would you want to remain married to a nasty woman???


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## Lonely Hubby 75 (Oct 23, 2017)

marriageontherocks2 said:


> If anything this topic is a good study in how differently men and women are treated under similar circumstances.
> 
> Don't you have a history of cheating? Does that mean that you're incapable of being a faithful wife ever?


Exactly! I'm siding with you, because these people in here are so harsh on you. Geez! You are talking about a problem you have with your wife and they are taking her side. It's not supposed to be sides, it is supposed to be suppotive towards you.

Anyways, I have a similar wife, welcome to the club. We dont have any children, but I can TOTALLY see her throwing backpacks out of the door, yell and scream. Mine threw dishes across the kitchen floor several times, never apologized about the behavior.

And to all those people that say you dont have a backbone: Sometimes it is not enough. You guys mean that he should escalate, put ultimatums, fight back. Well with a psychopathic wife this will only lead to physically escalating and eventually she hitting him and hem reacting to her by holding her wrist so she wont hit him...and there it is...domestic violence, restraining order, jail, loss of custody of kids...
This is a slippery slope and any sane person that has been in a relationship with a psychopath will tell you that you do not confront or escalate these people. 

I feel your pain buddy. Let me know how this progresses.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

482 said:


> Not much to say that everyone has not already said. Here is some tough love, grow a pair! Demand respect! Reading this post makes me cringe.
> 
> Set some boundaries and never bend on them, ever!
> 
> ...


 @marriageontherocks2 - THIS ^^^

A wife (or husband) like this is not that uncommon. I was married to one for a long time. She didn't start out like that, of course, but she certainly ended up like it.

The things you've described about your wife is uncannily like my ex wife. It's like a playbook they all take from, or something.

Now, I did not have this kind of advice while I was in the midst of it all. I stumbled upon TAM in late 2008, when my marriage had imploded and it was too late.

The bottom line - having lived through it - is that my ex wife did not respect me, which led to not liking me. She "loved" me, but not the way she should have, as a partner and spouse.

How this happened, I still don't know. We were GREAT together for many years. Then seemingly overnight, nothing I did was right, or enough, or, or, or...

Not so ironically, I also was the breadwinner in the household, I did at least 50% of everything else (which one should, anyway), and I also sacrificed a lot along the way (a vasectomy, which I do not regret, but still; a career, to move 3000kms away for a "new start", only to move back 3 months later; countless $$$, which don't matter in the end, but still; my youth and early adult years; my dignity and self respect. To name a few).

If could do it all over again, I would leave the marriage. Simple as that. And I'm not bitter (or not as bitter as I sound). I'm just educated.


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## leon2100 (May 13, 2015)

menopause! Seen it!! Experienced it! Keep a lot of bourbon on hand.. And remember, nothing last forever.... unless she kills you. My wife went through this for over 15 yrs.


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## Lonely Hubby 75 (Oct 23, 2017)

Livvie said:


> It's very simple. Why would you want to remain married to a nasty woman???


Look up "psychopathic gaslighting". It explains while good empathic people end up with nasty merciless, manipulative people, and why they stay. Their reality is flipped upside down.


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## Lonely Hubby 75 (Oct 23, 2017)

leon2100 said:


> menopause! Seen it!! Experienced it! Keep a lot of bourbon on hand.. And remember, nothing last forever.... unless she kills you. My wife went through this for over 15 yrs.


He said they were in their 30s...this is not menopause I think its NPD or BPD. Most likely Borderline Personality Disorder on the medium spectrum, unless she is physically abusive, then its severe.


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

These are all correct - stand up to her and let her know how what she's doing is unacceptable. It's easy to just take it and not say anything, but that just makes it worse (trust me, I know and I still struggle with speaking up).

There was a period of time in our marriage when our kids were just about ready to toddle around until they got to be around 2 years old - my wife was a raging b!tch during this time. She was always complaining about how I could do nothing right, she couldn't trust me to take care of the kids, etc etc. I'd get the kids to the sitter in the morning and she's pick them up. When I got home (when she'd been home with them for around an hour), she'd be all over me complaining about how she has no help, the kids are driving her nuts, I didn't load the dishwasher correctly, it's my fault that she can't find the kids toys that she left at the sitters, etc. I'd be walking on eggshells making sure I did nothing to get her upset instead of asking her why an idiot like me could have the kids all day and have no problems, but SuperMom can't handle them for an hour. Walking on eggshells just made it worse. 

I started pushing back some when she got out of line and things got better, but I still have the scars from that time, and it's not healthy (and it's my fault for not standing up to her). For your marriage and your sanity, you need to set boundries.


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## 482 (Mar 14, 2017)

Lonely Hubby 75 said:


> Exactly! I'm siding with you, because these people in here are so harsh on you. Geez! You are talking about a problem you have with your wife and they are taking her side. It's not supposed to be sides, it is supposed to be suppotive towards you.
> 
> Anyways, I have a similar wife, welcome to the club. We dont have any children, but I can TOTALLY see her throwing backpacks out of the door, yell and scream. Mine threw dishes across the kitchen floor several times, never apologized about the behavior.
> 
> ...


Amazing things have happened in my life since I joined TAM. They have happened because of the changes I have made from understanding my issues, reading and working to correct them. A huge contribution to that has been the community of people on TAM giving unfiltered, often tough advice to swallow. This outside perspective has been priceless. Its not like your fake friends or family sitting around telling you what you want to hear and avoiding hurting your feelings (being supportive). Its real without much regard for feelings. 

If you have a similar wife I would recommend all the same advise to you none of which was to escalate, have ultimatums, or fight.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Lonely Hubby 75 said:


> Exactly! I'm siding with you, because these people in here are so harsh on you. Geez! You are talking about a problem you have with your wife and they are taking her side. It's not supposed to be sides, it is supposed to be suppotive towards you.


NOT ONE person on this thread has sided with his wife. I find it insulting to the members of TAM that you are twisting what people are saying. Everyone has agreed that his wife is abusive. And they are telling him what he needs to do …. Stand up for himself, set boundaries and get the hell out of the marriage. The problem is that that she is also verbally/emotionally abusing their children. So he has to protect them as well.


Lonely Hubby 75 said:


> Anyways, I have a similar wife, welcome to the club. We dont have any children, but I can TOTALLY see her throwing backpacks out of the door, yell and scream. Mine threw dishes across the kitchen floor several times, never apologized about the behavior.


And you stayed? Why?


Lonely Hubby 75 said:


> And to all those people that say you dont have a backbone: Sometimes it is not enough. You guys mean that he should escalate, put ultimatums, fight back. Well with a psychopathic wife this will only lead to physically escalating and eventually she hitting him and hem reacting to her by holding her wrist so she wont hit him...and there it is...domestic violence, restraining order, jail, loss of custody of kids...


Yes, he has to not play her game, has to stand up to her and he probably needs to leave her. How is not bad advise? He also needs to get help from counselors, a lawyer and others so he can protect his children from their abusive mother.


Lonely Hubby 75 said:


> This is a slippery slope and any sane person that has been in a relationship with a psychopath will tell you that you do not confront or escalate these people.


You have no idea of his wife is a psychopath. Psychopath is a mental health diagnosis that you have no ability to make, especially not on an anonymous forum.
There are a lot of people here with a lot of experience in relationships with abusive people, we are telling him to do what has worked for us; what we have been taught by counselors who help people in abusive relationships. The last thing that works in an abusive relationship is to cow-tow to the abuser, which is what you and he apparently are doing.


Lonely Hubby 75 said:


> I feel your pain buddy. Let me know how this progresses.


Have you left your abusive wife?


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

She may well have BPD I agree with the above poster. However, abuse is abuse and exhaustion is exhaustion, nasty is nasty. It doesn't really matter what its called. 

You cannot ameliorate this situation by being reasonable or walking on eggshells. The only language abusive people understand is loss, losing the people that enabled their behaviour. (Not meant to be unkind at all, but we sometimes enable abusers by simply allowing them to do so and making excuses). 

What advice would you give your best friend in the same situation?


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Standing up to someone doesn't mean fighting with them. Fighting back only makes the marriage more adversarial. Being the adversary of your spouse is counterproductive to a happy life.

While I do think there is a time and place for throwing a royal fit, that should be rare and targeted to the heart of the issue.

But in order to resolve issues in a marriage each spouse needs to face their part and be willing to change. Attacking someone (which is what fighting back is) doesn't resolve the problem. It puts the other person on the defensive, which is by natural adversarial.

A better way to handle things is to set healthy boundaries as you go. If you are in a marriage where you are detaching in order to have a happy life, then marriage becomes more of a business arrangement. If that works for you, great, but if it doesn't you have to say what you want and hope it changes and be willing to leave if it doesn't.


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## leon2100 (May 13, 2015)

Menopause can start in the 30s unless she's like my sister-in-law!.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I see people here trying to diagnose her as a psychopath, BPD, menopause, depression and a lot of other things. This is really out of line on an anonymous forum. None of us have the ability to diagnose her. She's not here to be interviewed to help even a professional do a diagnoses. And most of all, it can be very harmful to both the OP and his wife for people on this forum to label her with diagnoses. 

Instead I think it's far more helpful to the OP to help him address his own behavior... like him not allowing himself or his children to be abused, him putting down boundaries. Things like telling him to tell her that her anger and behavior are unacceptable and either she goes and gets help and changes or he's divorcing her. Or he puts together a support system of counselors, lawyer, etc. and just divorces her and fights to protect his children.


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## Lonely Hubby 75 (Oct 23, 2017)

482 said:


> Amazing things have happened in my life since I joined TAM. They have happened because of the changes I have made from understanding my issues, reading and working to correct them. A huge contribution to that has been the community of people on TAM giving unfiltered, often tough advice to swallow. This outside perspective has been priceless. Its not like your fake friends or family sitting around telling you what you want to hear and avoiding hurting your feelings (being supportive). Its real without much regard for feelings.
> 
> If you have a similar wife I would recommend all the same advise to you none of which was to escalate, have ultimatums, or fight.


Just talked to a lawyer this morning, I'm going through with a divorce at this point. No need to stay. I have an entire post about it here somewhere. I need to settle some financial things then we will start.

I love this forum and have been here before, and people really tell you what they think. I love to have all the different views from people, but I learned not to take them too literally or personally.


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## Lonely Hubby 75 (Oct 23, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> Instead I think it's far more helpful to the OP to help him address his own behavior... like him not allowing himself or his children to be abuse, him putting down boundaries.


That's his point: he doesnt know what to do, thats why he is posting here and we offer our opinion.
My opinion is that he is dealing with a BPD. I might be wrong, but it doesnt hurt to look into it.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

Omg, it took me like half his original post to wonder if @Uptown funk had been summoned yet.

This chick is pure BPD. She has feelings, she doesn’t know how to manage them, so she tantrums them out. I was married to that. There is absolutely nothing you can do but run far, far away.

On a side, yet personal note, 2 days ago my step daughter was over and was talking about mommy and her blowups and as she was describing them I was having PTSD but with a warm smile on my face knowing, I am no longer there. Omg, omg, omg, happy place, I’m on my happy place...

Ok, just don’t think twice. The sex ain’t worth it. She is broken af and there is absolute **** you can do about it.


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

The problem with remotely diagnosing BPD (and I too was onto that) is that it sometimes makes partners or whoever has a close relationship feel *compassionate*. In itself - with good therapy for the BPD is not a bad thing. But actually the last thing someone in a abusive relationship needs is to feel compassion for someone who is mentally ill. We make excuses. 

They need to get the **** out. Then wait for changes via therapy etc and actual changes in behaviour.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I think the first step is to start doing some reading on emotionally destructive relationships and how to set healthy boundaries. It is important that the children are protected. If you leave this woman, it is highly unlikely that you will get full custody so the children will be alone with her a lot. If you stay with her, it is important that you learn how to do that in a way that you no longer tolerate abuse towards yourself or your children, but in order to do that you have to understand how to be healthy.


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## KaraBoo0723 (Oct 1, 2016)

SunCMars said:


> Whach'a matter with you, Willis?
> 
> A bangin' body?
> 
> ...




T/J: 

Ok the Different Strokes reference literally had me laughing so hard I fell off my chair  I’m not completely sure why but the mental image of this topic being discussed in the Drummond household is absolutely hilarious to me  🤣  

End T/J


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## Lonely Hubby 75 (Oct 23, 2017)

peacem said:


> The problem with remotely diagnosing BPD (and I too was onto that) is that it sometimes makes partners or whoever has a close relationship feel *compassionate*. In itself - with good therapy for the BPD is not a bad thing. But actually the last thing someone in a abusive relationship needs is to feel compassion for someone who is mentally ill. We make excuses.
> 
> They need to get the **** out. Then wait for changes via therapy etc and actual changes in behaviour.


Right, the opposite: Anybody that is NPD or BPD has little to no chance to change their behavior. No therapy so far has been proven effective. BAsically we are telling the guy: GET OUT! There is no hope with these people, as OP already stated many times.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

Lila said:


> @marriageontherocks2 your history and current situation sounds a lot like @knobcreek's . Not saying you're him but you should check out his history. It's uncanny.
> 
> As to your issues.....she is who she is, you are who you are. You don't have to like the way she behaves but you also can't force her to change. The only person you can change is you. If her behavior bothers you, then remove yourself from the situation/environment so you don't have to be around her. If she speaks to you disrespectfully, tell her you won't engage her unless she changes her tune.
> 
> ETA: She must have a bangin' bod if she's doing yoga for 200+ hours a month.


I love this post! And it’s so true- there is so much you can change in your marriage just by changing yourself. Even the title of this thread screams anger and resentment on your part, OP. Can you try to work on changing yourself first to see how she responds? I’d start with Lila’s recommendation to remove yourself from the situation if she’s being angry, etc., and I’d also add that instead of feeling resentful, maybe try to change your perspective and appreciate that heck, your wife actually cares how she looks for you. Many threads have been started here on TAM by frustrated men who can’t get their wives to get in shape. And you don’t even have to reprimand her when she upsets you. Just change your perspective and think “My wife is doing the best she can with the tools she has.” Show her compassion, she sounds overwhelmed. Maybe she’s menopausal. Something is going on- maybe it’s not her fault? Or maybe she’s always reacting and needs you to lead her in showing her how to calmly solve problems instead of always reacting?

One thing I’m learning and it’s very challenging for me, is that changing my perspective does SO much to change the dynamic in relationships. Once I start feeling compassion for others when they are difficult, I show up differently. I start becoming nicer, more sensitive, more willing to help them find a better way. I won’t take abuse- Lila is right to suggest leaving the room, but even that I can do with compassion instead of arguing or fighting. I can simply say “This doesn’t feel good to me right now,” and take a break. 

Once you get to a point where you’re consistently showing up differently, she will likely stop seeing you as an adversary and instead seek your help and input. Or you’ll be coming from a place where you’re no longer angry and resentful of her. Instead, you’ll feel calm and peace knowing that no matter how she feels, acts, behaves, you’re not going to react. You can handle this and you’ll be able to get through it. 

And if she doesn’t change, you can assess the situation from a place of calm and peace, not anger and reaction.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

She is the only one who can control her. Whatever is going on with her, don't get sucked into her angry, abusive ways. Don't let her push you into anger. Move away from it and let her know it's not okay for her to treat you that way. You don't have to walk on eggshells around her, but you don't have to engage her in the same way she is behaving either. You have options. Learn them and teach them to your children.


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## marriageontherocks2 (Oct 4, 2017)

I am working on myself, I'm in individual counseling, I started recently with a new therapist that I like a lot, I think she's nailing my issues and giving me actual things to do to try and fix them. I already run religiously, starting yoga and meditation, cutting back on drinking etc...

I've tried to diagnose my wife, she's really a tough read. I've tried to get her to go to therapy, she goes to 1 or 2 sessions and never goes back. At the end of the day I can't make her do it.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

The yoga isn't doing much to help her is it?


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

marriageontherocks2 said:


> I am working on myself, I'm in individual counseling, I started recently with a new therapist that I like a lot, I think she's nailing my issues and giving me actual things to do to try and fix them. I already run religiously, starting yoga and meditation, cutting back on drinking etc...
> 
> I've tried to diagnose my wife, she's really a tough read. I've tried to get her to go to therapy, she goes to 1 or 2 sessions and never goes back. At the end of the day I can't make her do it.


Great to hear- it sounds like you’re doing your best, and I think it says a lot about you that you want your wife to better herself too, and that you’re leading the way by going first. That’s not easy to do, and I give you a lot of credit for it. You’re right that you can’t make her go, but you can be an inspiration to her, and your children. Once you get to a place where you feel good about how you’re managing your own thoughts and reactions, you’ll likely experience a great deal of clarity on the situation, and be coming from a much better place while doing so.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

As mentioned by an unhappy, uh, person, there are a lot of labels being attached by layman and laidladies. 

A lot of libel too.

I will not claim BPD, Bi Polar, Pyschopathetic or those titles. 
Since I live in the burbs and not @Uptown I cannot fairly diagnose Cat Scratch Fever.

What I can do is note the symptoms, paying attention to the angriest TAM posters.

From this data: using extensive extrapolation, population mean and discrete probability distribution, I calculate that it is Red Queen Fever. 
When OP's wife starts hitting him it becomes Red Queen Fervor. He is a soon-to-be dead man once the second stage kicks in.

Once the second stage kicks in, even peniscillan will not help.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

When you set a new tone and respond to her differently, there is automatically a new dynamic. You are not trying to change her, but she won't be responding to the same stimulus as before. Rather than her responding to your negative reaction, she will be responding to a different and healthier you.

This doesn’t mean that she will change and grow. It does mean that you will stop being part of the problem and you will at least resolve your part. As you grow, you will be able to help your children also. Maybe you can eventually get them into therapy too.

In all of this, if she no longer feels like you are against her, there could be a cease fire. You want a healthy, loving marriage and family life. Most people do, but she obviously doesn’t understand how that works. She’ll have to face her own demons in order to have a heart change and that may not be possible for her.

You are leading the way. You have a lot of power in your home. As you use that power for the benefit of yourself and those around you, things will change. She may not change inside, but at least she won’t have a negative response to react to anymore.

A warning: She could escalate as she sees her power to create drama is fading. Please – if she becomes violent, call 911. The biggest problem I have seen when people become violent is when no one does anything legal. There is no paper trail and it cannot be proven if you don’t document by calling 911. Your children need to be safe. Documentation of any violence will be of great help to you in the future should you need it. Do it for the children. Hopefully this will never come to pass and you will be the catalyst for healing in your household.


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## 482 (Mar 14, 2017)

marriageontherocks2 said:


> I am working on myself, I'm in individual counseling, I started recently with a new therapist that I like a lot, I think she's nailing my issues and giving me actual things to do to try and fix them. I already run religiously, starting yoga and meditation, cutting back on drinking etc...
> 
> 
> 
> I've tried to diagnose my wife, she's really a tough read. I've tried to get her to go to therapy, she goes to 1 or 2 sessions and never goes back. At the end of the day I can't make her do it.




It’s awesome you’re trying to make changes they cannot do anything but benefit you. Check out that post lots of great information there. One thing I picked up on is that you therapist is a woman. Is that correct? This may be great for some I would just say for me it was of huge importance to seek out relationships with strong men when it came to my support group. This included my therapist, friends and family. Prior to this I would seek out advise from women. My first therapist, family and friends. No offense ladies but this is not what I needed. Do you have relationships with strong men you can discuss things like this with?


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## doconiram (Apr 24, 2017)

You are setting a toxic example for you children. Do you want them to grow up and put up with this kind of abuse?

Your wife doesn't even like you a little bit and has zero respect for you. Your choice if you decide that is OK.


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## VibrantWings (Sep 8, 2017)

leon2100 said:


> menopause! Seen it!! Experienced it! Keep a lot of bourbon on hand.. And remember, nothing last forever.... unless she kills you. My wife went through this for over 15 yrs.


I was finding myself getting depressed trying to read through this thread until this post. 


Thanks for the smile :smile2:


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

leon2100 said:


> menopause! Seen it!! Experienced it! Keep a lot of bourbon on hand.. And remember, nothing last forever.... unless she kills you. My wife went through this for over 15 yrs.


Please. 15 years. Let's not blame "menopause" for 15 years of bad behavior. That's just the personality of the person.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Marriage,
There are broadly two types of TAM customers. Those who sincerely want help and those who sincerely want sympathy.

Those who want help, use the forum in a certain manner. They generally have a primary thread with a clear and complete background and they stick to that thread over time. They might have the odd side thread for something related to a child or other family member, but that makes sense.

Having numerous disconnected threads makes it far more difficult for anyone to understand your situation and actually help you. 





marriageontherocks2 said:


> I am working on myself, I'm in individual counseling, I started recently with a new therapist that I like a lot, I think she's nailing my issues and giving me actual things to do to try and fix them. I already run religiously, starting yoga and meditation, cutting back on drinking etc...
> 
> I've tried to diagnose my wife, she's really a tough read. I've tried to get her to go to therapy, she goes to 1 or 2 sessions and never goes back. At the end of the day I can't make her do it.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Hmm i think she hates you for taking her back and she hate having a child so shes a misserable witch. 

Time to make a change as in kicking her to the curb.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Ah, yes.
A lesson in humility.

One of my posts got deleted.
And for that I am deflated................in Spades.

Then again, it was a thread Jack. 
A Jack of Diamonds, not.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

> I worry she may be BPD or a narcissist.[Your 10/12 post.]


 Marriage, I agree with @Lonely Hubby and @Herschel that the behaviors you describe in this thread -- i.e., verbal abuse, controlling actions, temper tantrums, black-white thinking, always being "The Victim," and rapid flips between Jekyll (loving you) and Hyde (devaluing you) -- are some of the warning signs for BPD. Importantly, I'm not suggesting that your W exhibits full-blown BPD (only a professional can determine that). Rather, I'm suggesting she might be exhibiting moderate to strong symptoms of BPD. I'm skeptical, however, because your earlier threads said little about the BPD behaviors you now are describing. 

Further, please keep in mind that BPD is not something -- like chickenpox -- that a person either "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a spectrum disorder, which means all adults occasionally exhibit all of the BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your W exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do. 

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level. Because I've never met the lady, _I cannot answer that question_. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are easy to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as always being "The Victim," verbal abuse, cold withdrawal, and temper tantrums.



> I've tried to diagnose my wife, she's really a tough read.


No, no. Please do not try to diagnose her. Nobody on the planet can do a true diagnosis of BPD or any other mental disorder. That would require that the CAUSE of the symptoms be identified. Sadly, the scientific community has not yet proven or established the cause of BPD symptoms. Because psychologists are unable to determine the cause, they cannot help anyone by treating the underlying disorder, i.e., by fixing the cause. 

Instead, they help people by treating their symptoms (making no attempt to identify or treat the actual cause of those symptoms). Hence, when psychologists say they are "diagnosing" BPD or another PD, what they really mean is that they are determining whether the symptoms are so severe as to warrant treatment and also warrant coverage by your insurance.

Of course, you lack the training and credentials to perform even that limited form of "diagnosis." More important, it is unlikely to help you in deciding whether to remain married to her. For that purpose, it does not matter whether her symptoms have been determined to be full-blown BPD by a professional. A spouse satisfying only 80% or 90% of the diagnostic guidelines (thus "not having BPD") likely will be nearly as difficult to live with as a spouse satisfying 100% (thus "having BPD"). What you really need to know, then, is whether you are seeing strong and persistent BPD symptoms.

You should be able to spot strong symptoms. By definition, symptoms are traits and signs that laymen are able to readily identify. This is why, when laymen are unable to identify the symptoms, the disorder or disease is said to be "asymptomatic," i.e., without symptoms. Moreover, this is why, when you go to a medical doctor or psychologist, the first thing they will ask you is what symptoms you have observed, how long you've had those symptoms, and how severe they have been. And this is why hundreds of mental health centers have the symptoms (i.e., warning signs) for BPD and other disorders listed on their public websites. Psychologists know that, when the lay public knows what symptoms to look for, they are able to spot them and are far more likely to seek professional help to reduce those symptoms.

Hence, like other laymen, you don't go to a doctor or psychologist to be told what symptoms you're feeling or seeing. You already know that. Rather, you go to find out what is causing them and how to fix that cause. Failing that, you want the doctor or psychologist to at least show you how to reduce the symptoms or get medication that will reduce their severity. I mention all this so you realize that there is a world of difference between "spotting symptoms" (the province of laymen) and "making a diagnosis" (the province of professionals).



marriageontherocks2 said:


> My wife isn't just nasty 100% of the time, there are many times she's extremely affectionate.


If your W actually is a "BPDer" (i.e., exhibits strong BPD symptoms), she likely can flip -- in less than a minute -- from Jekyll (adoring you) to Hyde (devaluing you). And a BPDer can flip back again just as quickly. These rapid flips arise from _"black-white thinking."_ Like a young child, a BPDer is too emotionally immature to be able to handle strong conflicting feelings (e.g., love and hate). A BPDer therefore has great difficulty tolerating ambiguities, uncertainties, and the other gray areas of close interpersonal relationships. 

She therefore will categorize everyone close to her as "all good" (i.e., "white" or "with me") or "all bad" (i.e., "black" or "against me"). And she will recategorize someone from one polar extreme to the other -- in just ten seconds -- based solely on a minor comment or action. This B-W thinking also will be evident in the frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions such as "You NEVER..." and "You ALWAYS...." Because a BPDer's close friends eventually will be "split black," it is unusual for a BPDer to have really close long-term friends (unless they live a long distance away).



> She shows love, without it I wouldn't be here.


A person exhibiting strong narcissistic or sociopathic symptoms is incapable of loving others. In contrast, a person exhibiting strong BPD traits typically is able to love very intensely, albeit in the very immature way that a young child is able to love.



> Her actions aren't rational or reasonable, no point in pushing back against crazy.


I suggest you see a psychologist, for a visit or two all by yourself, to obtain a candid professional opinion on what you and your three children are dealing with. If he believes it sounds like strong symptoms of BPD or another PD, ask him what you can do to reduce the risk of it being passed on to your kids -- and how you can better protect your kids from your W's outbursts.

I also suggest that, while you're waiting to see the psychologist, you take a quick look at my list of _18 BPD Warning Signs_ to see if most sound very familiar. If so, I would suggest you read my more detailed description of them at my posts in _Maybe's Thread_. If that description rings many bells and raises questions, I would be glad to join the other respondents in discussing them with you. Take care, Marriage.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

ChargingCharlie said:


> I started pushing back some when she got out of line and things got better, but I still have the scars from that time, and it's not healthy (and it's my fault for not standing up to her). For your marriage and your sanity, you need to set boundries.


While I wholeheartedly agree, I also sometimes wonder if it's worth it if you HAVE to set boundaries, push back, etc.

Had I done so with my ex wife, for example, sure, she may have come around and snapped out of it. But the sheer fact that she went down that road to begin with would be concerning to me.

It's a bit of a catch-22, I think. I was the same person she fell in love with at the start. She changed, not me. So although it may have saved that marriage, I'd have had to change my persona to do so.

She's the one who changed, and has turned her resentment and anger on you. While that's your problem, it's her fault. To have to become a person you're inherently not in order to gain back whatever perceived respect you've lost... I dunno.


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## marriageontherocks2 (Oct 4, 2017)

Thanks for the replies, I think a lot of it is needed feedback.

She was really apologetic to everyone about her behavior, especially my daughter. I didn't escalate things, just let them die down. Things seemed fine, we go to bed and right as I fall asleep I get hit with "if you go to yoga at that studio by your office, it will have very bad repercussions for our marriage, your decision". Then she flips out because my therapist is a woman (like 95% of therapists are women). I didn't look her up, I tried to get a male therapist he had a 3 month waiting list, the other 2 therapists didn't take my insurance and recommended the one I see now. I wasn't "seeking out" young women to go to therapy with, they're literally all women. This was all out of nowhere, she storms out, slams the door and sleeps on the couch. She ignores me this morning, only says I'm not a nice person, just pretend to be and I really don't care and I'm a liar.

What possible problem could she have with me taking one yoga class a week on my lunch hour by my work and going to therapy? 

I didn't yell or lose my cool, I just told her that I'm going, it's not a big deal, it's for my mental health, help me relax and I want to do something besides running, and if she can give me one logical coherent argument why she has a problem with it I'll consider what she's saying. I also said she needs to stop the screaming and drama, I'm exhausted by it and can't live with it anymore and left for work.

I do love her, but aside from my financial ties I'm at a point in my life where I'm not despondent over the thought of losing her or being alone. Maybe it's midlife I recently turned 40, I don't know.


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## leon2100 (May 13, 2015)

You're probably right. Her husband has brought out the worst in her!


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## GatorXP (Oct 1, 2017)

marriageontherocks2 said:


> Thanks for the replies, I think a lot of it is needed feedback.
> 
> She was really apologetic to everyone about her behavior, especially my daughter. I didn't escalate things, just let them die down. Things seemed fine, we go to bed and right as I fall asleep I get hit with "if you go to yoga at that studio by your office, it will have very bad repercussions for our marriage, your decision". Then she flips out because my therapist is a woman (like 95% of therapists are women). I didn't look her up, I tried to get a male therapist he had a 3 month waiting list, the other 2 therapists didn't take my insurance and recommended the one I see now. I wasn't "seeking out" young women to go to therapy with, they're literally all women. This was all out of nowhere, she storms out, slams the door and sleeps on the couch. She ignores me this morning, only says I'm not a nice person, just pretend to be and I really don't care and I'm a liar.
> 
> ...


Do you want a partnership? And is she a partner should be your 1st 2 questions. (Hint: she ain't)
Decide what kind of relationship you want to be in and get in one or suffer, those are your choices

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## 482 (Mar 14, 2017)

marriageontherocks2 said:


> and if she can give me one logical coherent argument why she has a problem with it I'll consider what she's saying.


Are you establishing boundaries? Is this yoga and your therapy part of your terms or boundaries you live by? If it is you can consider what she is saying for the sake of listening to her but there is nothing to discuss and she should know that. They are what they are. They don't move or get compromised, ever. Be careful with things that can be compromised on. 

Example if your boundary or term is;

"I do yoga every Wednesday 1 PM at studio B with my friends" there is no room for compromise or discussion 

if it is 

"I exercise regularly" there is much room for compromise and challenge. 

Establish them with detail and never bend on them, ever, for anyone. Compromise on everything else. I just updated mine because of having this discussion :smile2: 

Glad you are considering exit as an option and starting to not accept this behavior. Only good things can come from that. It may be very uncomfortable now but it will get better. Its amazing watching the world around you change just from changing yourself. 

How uncomfortable are you with her being upset? Like when you left for work knowing she is mad with you. How difficult is it for you to remain comfortable being uncomfortable and not cave to try and fix the ****ty environment? This is one of my biggest challenges. I continue to do it and it has only had good results but it is by far the hardest one for me to deal with day to day when its going on.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

You want to take yoga at the same place she is takes classes, right?

Tell her that you are going to take yoga someplace else. Watch her reaction.

I think it's not you taking yoga classes that bothers her, it's you taking the classes at "her" place. She views that place as belonging to her, her domain away from you and she wants to keep it to herself. It might also be that she has some history there that she does not want you to find out.


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## marriageontherocks2 (Oct 4, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> You want to take yoga at the same place she is takes classes, right?
> 
> Tell her that you are going to take yoga someplace else. Watch her reaction.
> 
> I think it's not you taking yoga classes that bothers her, it's you taking the classes at "her" place. She views that place as belonging to her, her domain away from you and she wants to keep it to herself. It might also be that she has some history there that she does not want you to find out.


It's actually the opposite, she doesn't want me to take yoga at a different studio, she wants me to go with her to her studio only. I only want to go to this different one because I can swing in on an extended lunch hour, it's right by my office.

She admitted she's jealous and worried I'm going to leave her apparently. IMO since she has a history of behaving inappropriately with men during our marriage she's projecting, or she's guilty over how she's currently behaving and projecting. I've never cheated, or had any inappropriate relationships with women. I have some female friends she knows about, and none of them pose any threat to her so she's OK with it. The only reason this would bother her so much is if she's projecting.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriageontherocks2 said:


> It's actually the opposite, she doesn't want me to take yoga at a different studio, she wants me to go with her to her studio only. I only want to go to this different one because I can swing in on an extended lunch hour, it's right by my office.
> 
> She admitted she's jealous and worried I'm going to leave her apparently. IMO since she has a history of behaving inappropriately with men during our marriage she's projecting, or she's guilty over how she's currently behaving and projecting. I've never cheated, or had any inappropriate relationships with women. I have some female friends she knows about, and none of them pose any threat to her so she's OK with it. The only reason this would bother her so much is if she's projecting.


Ah, tell her that she is welcome to drop in on your class at any time.

I'm pretty sure that a lot of men would not be happy if their wife took a class for yoga or anything that was predominately attended by physically fit men. There have been a lot of threads here on TAM in which a log of men have stated this. The assumption would be that she was going to meet men and have an affair.

So while my personal opinion is that you should be able to take a yoga class on your lunch hour, your wife's feelings about this are not unusual at all.

Me? I would take the yoga class.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

marriageontherocks2 said:


> It's actually the opposite, she doesn't want me to take yoga at a different studio, she wants me to go with her to her studio only. I only want to go to this different one because I can swing in on an extended lunch hour, it's right by my office.
> 
> She admitted she's jealous and worried I'm going to leave her apparently. IMO since she has a history of behaving inappropriately with men during our marriage she's projecting, or she's guilty over how she's currently behaving and projecting. I've never cheated, or had any inappropriate relationships with women. I have some female friends she knows about, and none of them pose any threat to her so she's OK with it. The only reason this would bother her so much is if she's projecting.


Except she’s not ok with it, and for good reason- opposite sex friendships can come between a marriage. While I practice yoga 5xs per week and gave you props in a previous post for taking care of yourself, your wife is right to be concerned if you’re attending classes with other women and befriending them, instead of choosing to go with her. This is exactly how affairs, especially emotional affairs start. No one goes looking for it, but releasing endorphins and building friendships with other women without your wife around before, after and during class, especially in an environment where many in unhappy marriages start attending to focus on themselves, can cause issues in marriage.

Your wife practices- find a way to go with your wife. If she didn’t practice, I’d either make very sure that she was comfortable with you going, knowing that you are there to get your workout and NOT befriend other women who are not also friends of the marriage, or find another recreational outlet involving men.

Your marriage is rocky right now, and while you deserve to get in a workout and take care of yourself, you’re still married and need to consider your wife’s feelings in everything you do. If you going to a studio without her where you’re likely to meet and get to know other women who are not also friends of the marriage bothers her, then I think she has every right to tell you it’s not working for her. Just like you have every right to tell her that you’re not comfortable with her running daily during her free time with another guy.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

marriageontherocks2 said:


> I do love her, but aside from my financial ties I'm at a point in my life where I'm not despondent over the thought of losing her or being alone.


So how much is it gonna cost you to get away from this shrew and live a normal life?



marriageontherocks2 said:


> I'm pulling 80% of the weight financially and chores wise, and she's just mean, and if she has to do ANYTHING and I'm sitting she's unbearable to be around.


20%?!? Pfft.... worth it. Your problem is YOU. You're complacent and codependent.

You'd rather put up with some nasty psycho than do the work of finding a decent woman.

You earn most of the income, do most of the housework, and to what? Avoid a date?

Stop being a lazy doormat to a cheating POS (LOL @ 8 hour yoga) and GTFO.

Before she sucks the rest of your life away and you die a miserable old man alone.


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## khai.subroto (Mar 6, 2017)

marriageontherocks2 said:


> I do have a backbone, we've been fighting and making up for 16 years. I've just decided it's not worth the arguments and pushing back anymore because her actions aren't rational or reasonable, no point in pushing back against crazy. I'm going to live my life calmly and positively, not engage in her B.S. everyday. Now I just ignore it, she'll end up apologizing, but there comes a point where if you were really sorry for the behavior you would stop doing it, or at least make an effort to stop doing it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## David51 (Sep 12, 2017)

How’s your sex life?



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## GuacaColey (Sep 19, 2017)

C3156 said:


> And why do you want to live your life like this? If you have a high tolerance for work, just do the work and quit *****ing about it. If you want your wife to have some boundaries I suggest that you take some action to enforce some boundaries.
> 
> Personally, I don't want to deal with someone who has a constant bad attitude. Life is to short to have to deal with that all the time.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwbKYcBdVyk






This made my day. 


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