# An idea I had...what do the TAM ladies think?



## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

My wife has always had a bit of a self-esteem issue. Nothing super-serious, but she doesn't really see herself as being attractive to other men. 

She is 50, brunette with dark hair and blue eyes, 5'1' and 115#, 34D, curvy in all the right places. She generally wears pretty conservative clothes for work and everyday, but when she dresses up for special occasions or when we go out, she really is a knockout. I see men looking at her when we go out, but she doesn't really notice. Think Jamie Lee Curtis in "True Lies".

I compliment her frequently, but she thinks that I only do this to get her into bed or to make her feel better about herself.

She works at a local college. I was thinking of sending her an anonymous email from a "secret admirer", pretending I was a younger male student who has seen her walking around campus, and thought she was interesting-looking and attractive. That I have been admiring her from afar, but that I am too shy to actually approach and talk to her.

Depending on how she reacts, my plan was to keep this going for a while, keeping it relatively platonic, but mostly just as a way to keep her ego pumped up ("your husband is a lucky guy", "a couple of my friends think you are a hottie", etc.). I could very easily break it off at any time if it starts to get sideways.

I understand that there is a chance that she may want to act on this situation (i.e. meet the admirer), in which case I could cut it off, and I don't think that it would bother me much to know that she was interested in actually meeting this "guy". I think the potential benefit to her self-esteem would far outweigh the risk of my having any negative feelings about it, and I think it could really help her to feel better about herself.

What do the ladies think?


----------



## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

I understand you wanting to improve her self esteem, but I think that this is a very bad idea and could blow up in your face.

-You can't fix her.
-Why place her in a position where she feels like she's tempted to tell you lies?
-What if she does lie to you? Could that not *harm* her self esteem?
-What if she finds out it was you and feels (you know) like you manipulated her?

Oh, and: THIS IS EXTREMELY MANIPULATIVE.

Save this sort of stuff for the plots of romantic comedies, because it's better left for the cinemas and not real life.


----------



## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

I appreciate the input. I think she would be much more inclined to tell me she got an email from a secret admirer than she would be to lie about it. If she does lie about it, I don't see how that would hurt her self-esteem.

As long as I didn't play it up for too long, I think it's a pretty harmless idea. Worst case, I could always tell her it was me, and that it was a little role playing game if it started heading south.

Anyway, I think the downside risk is low, but I could be wrong about that.

I'm still interested in getting more female feedback on this.


----------



## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Yep.... bad idea.

A better idea is to just love her and appreciate her forever. Even if she doesn't think she is as hot as you think. 

Look into the 5 Love Languages and see what hers is.... THAT is the way to show her love in a way that she "gets". She will love you even more for it. 

I think you only have to convince her that YOU are crazy about her, not that other men are. We are in our 50's.... H always tells me how hot I am (I'm not), and how I excite him. Our sex life is hot, but however much he loves the videos, I'll never find them sexy or flattering! I just think he is a slightly blind old man who is very sweet, who feeds my ego and rocks my world! What more can a woman want? 

I'm not sure if most women feel this way....but I think we women don't really care if other men find us hot. What we really want is for our husbands to cherish us and think we are sexy.


----------



## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

Actually, I think I'm most interested in knowing how a woman would feel about getting a "secret admirer" email (flattered, creeped out, etc.). How you would feel about that would probably determine whether or not I wanted to take this a step further.


----------



## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

Her Love Language is "Words of Affirmation" which I do all the time.


----------



## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

I think the big thing is finding out it's a fake secret admirer. I'd feel stupid finding out I was tricked. I might think he was sweet for doing that, at the same time I'd think he's a jerk for tricking me.

I don't think it would boost my self-esteem. 

Again, I'm not sure about other women, but my self-esteem is SELF issues. Not flattery issues.


----------



## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

keeper63 said:


> I appreciate the input. I think she would be much more inclined to tell me she got an email from a secret admirer than she would be to lie about it. *If she does lie about it, I don't see how that would hurt her self-esteem.*


If she's like most people with a conscience, she'll feel bad about herself if she lies to you, thus impacting her self esteem.

Also: if she finds out it wasn't an admirer, but just you, it would confirm her beliefs that people don't find her attractive.



> I'm still interested in getting more female feedback on this.


Oops. I'm a guy, but didn't catch that proviso.


----------



## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

I get the conscience thing, but you would have to balance the impact of her getting an email and not telling me about it, against the potential self-esteem boost of getting an email from an anonymous admirer in the first place.

I'm a guy, and I know I would be flattered by something like this, but I don't have the benefit of female perspective. To me, the biggest risk would be to have her creeped out by it. I know females process this sort of thing differently than males do.


----------



## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

I would be flattered.At first.Then I would be irritated and suspicious.It would drive me bonkers.

Then if I found out my husband was doing it...OMG there wouldn't be a hole deep enough for him to hide.

My feelings AND my ego would be trashed.

You know what helped me see myself through my husband's eyes? Sounds stupid but he went online and found pics of ladies who he felt looked the most like me in body and face then sent them to me.

Instead of hearing him TELL me how stunning he found me I got to see how he saw me.Those chicks were thick like me and yet I thought they were super hot and sexy bc heaven forbid I should ever see myself like that. But HE sees ME the way I see those chicks. That was the biggest boost I could ever get.


----------



## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

SB, thanks for the suggestion (the picture idea)!


----------



## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

Not a good idea at all. I would be so pissed off if I found out about it. If it not enough for her that you find her attractive why would you want to feed into that?


----------



## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

keeper63 said:


> SB, thanks for the suggestion (the picture idea)!


:smthumbup: NP

Call me a weirdo but I have the one girl saved as my lock screen to remind me of how my husband sees me.


----------



## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

OK, I understand that most of you would be pissed if you found out, and I get that. But how would you feel about getting an email from an admirer in the first place? Let's assume for the sake of discussion that you didn't find out.

Would it be flattering? Creepy? Again, I'm trying to get a feel for whether the initial reaction would be positive or negative. That would weigh heavily in the risk-benefit calculation.


----------



## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

keeper63 said:


> OK, I understand that most of you would be pissed if you found out, and I get that. But how would you feel about getting an email from an admirer in the first place? Let's assume for the sake of discussion that you didn't find out.
> 
> Would it be flattering? Creepy? Again, I'm trying to get a feel for whether the initial reaction would be positive or negative. That would weigh heavily in the risk-benefit calculation.


Knee Jerk: Suspicious and creeped out
After letting it sink in: Suspicious,creeped out,a bit flattered.Likely blushing.
The next day: P*ssed that I was being watched by someone and toyed with especially bc I'd feel disrespected some dude was emailing me his admiration knowing I'm married.The flattered feeling would be fleeting and would take a back seat to my other feelings.


----------



## skype (Sep 25, 2013)

I would feel very creepy if at 50 I got an e-mail from an 18-21 year old male. I would think that he had Mommy issues, or that he was trying to make fun of me.


----------



## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

skype said:


> or that he was trying to make fun of me.


that too.:iagree:


----------



## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

I think it's a horrible idea, OP.

Your OP focuses a lot on your W's appearance, but self-esteem doesn't necessarily come from the way we look or how sexy we are (although it can impact on it). 

What sort of things does your W like to do? What are her dreams, goals, hobbies, aspirations etc? Rather encourage your W to increase her own self-esteem through her pursuits, achievements etc...

http://www.athealth.com/Consumer/disorders/self-esteem.html


----------



## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

I had not considered the "making fun" angle.


----------



## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

My wife is very accomplished in her career, serves on the board of a non-profit, is active in the art community, and is confident in her public/work persona (almost to the point of being called "intimidating").

So I'm not sure how I can boost her self-esteem by encouraging her achievements. The issue is that she doesn't see herself as being sexually attractive. Sure, I find her attractive, and in fact I know others find her attractive (both men and women). She gets a lot of looks from men when we go out, and she gets looks from the younger guys at the gym as well.

The challenge here is that she just doesn't see herself that way. Having a man eyeballing her in a restaurant just isn't the same as having one actually tell her that she is sexy. Like I said, her love language is words of affirmation, and I tell her she is sexy all the time. She just doesn't seem to buy into it.

She was in IC for a while, and that seemed to help her a lot, but I'm not sure it would be productive for me to encourage her to go back.


----------



## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Why does it bother you? 

You love her. You think she's sexy. You do all the right things. 

What is the problem? 

Why do you feel the need to fix this? 

What do you WANT? Do you want her to act more sexy? Dress more sexy? Come on to you more often? Get more adventurous in the bedroom? You must want something to come out of this.

See, you are trying to figure out how to fix this for her. We, as women, are telling you that this is inside her and if it's not manifesting itself as detrimental to the marriage....she will figure it out or not. It's HER issue, and if it's not causing problems let it go.

And ya know, it COULD be that she finds the flaws on her body in things that she cannot change...no matter if some stranger says she's hot. Like maybe she thinks her toes are ugly, or the shape of her ears, or that one boob is bigger than the other, etc... 

So she may not think of herself as sexy.... shouldn't even be an issue. Some people are humble about that, some aren't.


----------



## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

keeper63 said:


> My wife is very accomplished in her career, serves on the board of a non-profit, is active in the art community, and is confident in her public/work persona (almost to the point of being called "intimidating").
> 
> So I'm not sure how I can boost her self-esteem by encouraging her achievements. The issue is that she doesn't see herself as being sexually attractive. Sure, I find her attractive, and in fact I know others find her attractive (both men and women). She gets a lot of looks from men when we go out, and she gets looks from the younger guys at the gym as well.
> 
> ...


Then it's best that those words come from you, OP. What you suggested in your OP could open a door that you'd end up wishing had remained closed.

I've heard that many women get a real boost out of a professional photo shoot... Really tasteful but sexy pictures of themselves. Would this be an option?


----------



## skype (Sep 25, 2013)

Is this really such a problem for her? She sounds very accomplished and successful. Does she really feel badly at 50 because she thinks that people don't find her hot? Usually by then you know that you are sufficient, and you no longer care what people think about you.


----------



## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

A few years ago, right after I got married, I started getting emails from a strange guy. He talked in a flirty way....called me Sug and Hon and Girlfriend, and signed his emails "Daddy Bill" or "Big Daddy". He talked about his travels, or about his day as if we were friends....it was weird, but harmless. 

I finally emailed him back, because I felt bad like I was snooping into a stranger's private life. I wrote that I think he was sending his emails to the wrong person, that I didn't know who he was, and that I didn't want him to think the intended person wasn't replying to his letters. 

Turns out, he got my email off of forwarded jokes to a mutual friend. Apparently he likes raunchy jokes. He did ask her about emailing me, and she said she didn't think it would be a problem. He was in his 70's and his wife of 40 something years had died the year before and he now spends his days on the internet. 

Just talking and flirting. We became "pen pals" for awhile. H and I called him my "internet boyfriend".... just a sweet, kinda dirty old man visiting via the internet with all his "girlfriends". 

 I know this isn't the same, it just reminded me of Daddy Bill. We've lost touch in the past year, and the thought made me smile. 

I still vote NO on the secret admirer.


----------



## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

I'm not exactly sure why this is an issue for me. She is outwardly confident in other aspects of her life. But she lacks self-confidence in our relationship. I would just like to see her be as self-confident with me as she is with her colleagues at work.

She seemed to be much more self-confident (in her day-to-day dealings with me, sexually, and otherwise) while she was in IC. I don't know what was discussed during her IC, but it manifested itself in her being more outgoing and confident in our interpersonal dealings. Like I said, I don't think suggesting that she go back to IC would be taken in the spirit intended.

I'm a man, and men always want to fix things. Perhaps I should just be happy with how things are, but I know they could be better because I saw it when she was in IC.


----------



## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

Sunny T - did you find the initial or the first couple of emails from Daddy Bill creepy or did they make you uncomfortable?


----------



## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

I don't usually read these celebrity type articles, but I just come across this, OP. Even a woman as beautiful and accomplished as Angelina Jolie has suffered self-esteem issues, and this is what Brad Pitt did to help her:- 

I Lost Hope And Thought That Weâ€™ll Get Divorcedâ€¦ But Then I Decided To Act On It. Brad Pitts Letter To Angelina

Personally, though, I think IC might have a more long lasting effect for this sort of thing.


----------



## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Well, not sure if it's the same with men but I suspect it is.... we have highs and lows when it comes to self-esteem anyway. A bad hair day is just that...it will be better tomorrow probably. We might have a period of time that we are not so confident, and other times when we are in the right groove. To US, or maybe to me....I shouldn't speak for all women... it's really not a big deal. 

If my H suggested counseling for this, then I'd just tell him he's a nut and if he has specific issues to tell me and I will face it, but that doesn't mean I think they need to be fixed. 

Actually, my husband said something recently about me being wishy-washy this past year. Said it was just something he'd noticed. I said I hadn't noticed but that I'll be more aware of it and work on that. BUT....I wouldn't go to counseling for it, it's not hurting the relationship, and this is coming from a very blunt man. Issue mentioned, issue noted. Period.


----------



## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

keeper63 said:


> Sunny T - did you find the initial or the first couple of emails from Daddy Bill creepy or did they make you uncomfortable?


Yes, uncomfortable. It was a stranger, sounding intimate, a bit sexual, and out of the blue....so definitely uncomfortable. So the initial attention, intending to be sweet on his part was wasted on me. 

I come from a family of 7 brothers, truck drivers and drunkards...so I don't creep out or get offended easily. 

And even if it were a secret admirer and not a dirty ol' mutual friend, I'd think he was lame. If he were old enough to appreciate me, he should be more mature than sending secret admirer emails. It would be a wasted effort.


----------



## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

keeper63 said:


> My wife has always had a bit of a self-esteem issue. Nothing super-serious, but she doesn't really see herself as being attractive to other men.
> 
> She is 50, brunette with dark hair and blue eyes, 5'1' and 115#, 34D, curvy in all the right places. She generally wears pretty conservative clothes for work and everyday, but when she dresses up for special occasions or when we go out, she really is a knockout. I see men looking at her when we go out, but she doesn't really notice. Think Jamie Lee Curtis in "True Lies".
> 
> ...


Sorry, married male responder here.

Are you out of your effin' MIND????


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

keeper63 said:


> OK, I understand that most of you would be pissed if you found out, and I get that. But how would you feel about getting an email from an admirer in the first place? Let's assume for the sake of discussion that you didn't find out.
> 
> Would it be flattering? Creepy? Again, I'm trying to get a feel for whether the initial reaction would be positive or negative. That would weigh heavily in the risk-benefit calculation.



Please for the love of all that is good and holy, LISTEN to the women here and DON'T do this.

While your intentions may be good, this could end very badly, and even if you go over ever possible outcome seven times from Tuesday, there will be something you miss that could bite you in the ass. 

Unforseen possibility causing unforseen consequences...


----------



## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

I am curious if he has actually already sent the email...............


----------



## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

She originally went to IC to work on some other relationship issues she had after we did some MC together. The counselor did tell her that she had a TON of unresolved family issues she needs to work through (she grew up in a very dysfunctional/abusive family situation).

Perhaps I should urge her to go back to IC to work on the family issues, and see if IC helps her regain some of the self-confidence she had the last time she was in IC?

The female consensus seems to be that a secret admirer would be creepy at best, and would potentially create some resentment in the worst case (if she found out it was me).

The original idea was probably not the best one, but I don't understand the outrage that some of you here on TAM have expressed. It might not be a great idea, but when people on here are talking about open marriages, threesomes, gang bangs, sex and swingers clubs, and cuckolding, I think what I had proposed seems pretty tame in comparison.

I do appreciate that TAM is here and I can vet ideas like this one before I act on them. Thanks.


----------



## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

I did not already send the email.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

keeper63 said:


> She originally went to IC to work on some other relationship issues she had after we did some MC together. The counselor did tell her that she had a TON of unresolved family issues she needs to work through (she grew up in a very dysfunctional/abusive family situation).
> 
> Perhaps I should urge her to go back to IC to work on the family issues, and see if IC helps her regain some of the self-confidence she had the last time she was in IC?
> 
> ...


This is true. I can't really describe why, but what you suggested just seems very...different from those things.

The first thing that popped into my mind was something that happened a long time ago. My ex-wife's sister was a really big girl in high school, and not terribly attractive. As a joke, the school voted her as Homecoming queen just to make fun of her. To send the message that the only way anyone would think she was pretty was if it was faked...


----------



## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

Here is the net of this suggestion, based heavily on female TAM input:

1.) Best case scenario: She gets the email(s), feels flattered, not creeped out. Gets a self-esteem boost, but the long-term benefit is likely not significant.

2.) Worst case scenario: She gets creeped out from the initial email, and feels uncomfortable going to work or walking around campus. Or she finds out it was me, and gets pissed and/or feels resentment towards me for playing with her feelings.

I still don't see how this idea is on the same plane as an open marriage, or swinging, or whatever. So I just don't get responses like "Are you out of your effing mind!" Yeah, it is a different approach, but I think the worst-case consequences of my idea are much less onerous than having a threesome and experiencing the worst-case outcome. In my situation, the third party is imaginary and doesn't exist.

Anyway, I think I am going to focus my energies on how to tactfully suggest she go back to IC to deal with issues she knows she has to deal with anyway, and see how that goes. Perhaps her confidence issues are rooted in her early family dysfunction, and if she works through those issues, she will regain the confidence she had during her last round of IC.

Anyway, like I said, I appreciate that TAM is here and I can bounce ideas off of others whose opinions I value.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

keeper...Self-esteem is something one has to develop for themselves. Having a secret admirer doesn't "give" you good self-esteem or a good self-image.

What might work better is sitting her down and telling her how deeply it affects you when she insults herself, and when she doesn't accept your genuine compliments.

It hurts when someone will not accept a sincere compliment, and from that angle, if she lets it sink in, she might "get it" and maybe open herself up to letting herself at least believe and be happy with YOUR admiration of her, even if she still won't give it to herself.


----------



## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

keeper63 said:


> Here is the net of this suggestion, based heavily on female TAM input:
> 
> 1.) Best case scenario: She gets the email(s), feels flattered, not creeped out. Gets a self-esteem boost, but the long-term benefit is likely not significant.
> 
> ...


I think the difference is with ^these situations, it is supposedly WITH the wife's consensus. Not a trick. If you were trying to trick her into one of these situations we would go off on you for that too!


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> keeper...Self-esteem is something one has to develop for themselves. Having a secret admirer doesn't "give" you good self-esteem or a good self-image.
> 
> What might work better is sitting her down and telling her how deeply it affects you when she insults herself, and when she doesn't accept your genuine compliments.
> 
> It hurts when someone will not accept a sincere compliment, and from that angle, if she lets it sink in, she might "get it" and maybe open herself up to letting herself at least believe and be happy with YOUR admiration of her, even if she still won't give it to herself.


This right here. My STBW has self image issue, but I have shown her in words and actions that she is absolutely gorgeous in my eyes, the most attractive woman in the world to me. She still does not feel that way about herself. She looks in the mirror and sees a very plain average woman, but she KNOWS beyond any doubt that I see her exactly how I say and show. This is good enough for her.


----------



## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

FW and samyeagar - I have sat her down several times and told her that it's hurtful for me to compliment her sincerely, and have her just brush it off, and not really accept it. I have also spoken to her many times about how much I would like it if she would bring some of the confidence she projects to the rest of the world to our relationship.

This isn't just a sex thing. I would say that our sex life is great, and that the only thing I would like to see improve is her confidence, and her willingness to initiate and tell me what she wants.

I want a piece of the confident woman that I see in her work and her other social settings, and I have told her this. 

Being a man, I have an urge to try to fix things, hence the admirer idea.

I'm now inclined to think that the better solution is to tactfully convince her to go back to IC.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Why not ask her to MC where you can explain in front of the C how you feel and get help in impressing upon her how important it is to you?


----------



## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

The counselor did suggest that she come back to IC to discuss her childhood issues that might actually be at the root of some of her self-confidence issues.

The last time we went to MC together we were in a really bad spot in our marriage, and I think she might overreact to my wanting to go back into MC with her. She would probably assume things were a lot worse than they actually are.

If I can get her to go back to IC, perhaps our counselor can suggest that I come with her if she thinks it would be productive for me to do so.


----------



## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

keeper63 said:


> It might not be a great idea, but when people on here are talking about open marriages, threesomes, gang bangs, sex and swingers clubs, and cuckolding, I think what I had proposed seems pretty tame in comparison.


Hell, I'd be downvoting those ideas, too.

"Not getting along? Sex life troubled? You should both try getting into some orgies! That will fix everything!"

LOL


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

This is really about you though, keeper. It is about how you feel about her rejection of your honest feelings about her.

If she goes to IC, you don't get to decide what she works on. You get that, right?

Whereas if you go to MC, is it half about you and half about her and you DO get a say about what gets worked on.

Just face up to your own needs and work with her (and an MC) to get them met.


----------



## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> :smthumbup: NP
> 
> Call me a weirdo but I have the one girl saved as my lock screen to remind me of how my husband sees me.


Crikey jesus above. He's in love all right.


----------



## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

FW, my wife and I both go to the same counselor for IC and MC, she knows us both very well.

Perhaps the way for me to do this would be for me to go back to IC, and then after my session have our counselor suggest that we do it together, or that my wife go back to IC after I do. 

I know my wife well, and if I suggest we go back to joint MC (i.e. together), she will push the panic button needlessly, and assume something is terribly amiss when it isn't and I think that would be unproductive.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

So what if it pushes the panic button? It isn't something to panic about, so you just truthfully explain that.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Don't lie to your wife.


----------



## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I would be flattered.At first.Then I would be irritated and suspicious.It would drive me bonkers.
> 
> Then if I found out my husband was doing it...OMG there wouldn't be a hole deep enough for him to hide.
> 
> ...


Your husband is absolutely right about you. FWIW.


----------



## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

sandc said:


> Your husband is absolutely right about you. FWIW.


Thanks,SandC


----------



## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

Several Valentines days ago my wife got one of her friends to write me a big Valentines day card from a 'Secret Admirer'.

And while I was a little flattered I was also quite freaked out about it as I have been 'approached' by women who made it clear they fancied bedding me.

I spent some time assuring my wife that I had no idea who it was while I was desperately trying to figure out which of the women it was.

My wife confessed that she sent it by proxy only fairly recently. Luckily I never got as far as phoning up the women I suspected and asking them to 'knock it off'.

I don't know if my experience would be mirrored by your wife but it generated more worry for me than good feelings.


----------



## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Satya said:


> This is just my opinion, but I think her being conservative makes her a cut above.
> 
> Someone else used the word "humble" to describe the behavior and I agree.
> 
> Whether she has a desire to improve her self esteem is for her to decide. Don't make her wrong for it - my ex did that to me and let's just say his constant pressure to sexualze me more opened up a big fat pandoras box.


:iagree: Very well said!

And I almost lost my wife trying to do the same thing.


----------



## skype (Sep 25, 2013)

Keeper, I don't think that either one of you needs fixing. I remember some of your detailed sexual posts--your wife must be one happy woman! You are both entering the second half of life. Enjoy it, and delight in your wisdom in wanting what you have.


----------



## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Another thing.... I'm 51 so I get this part. Self esteem changes as you age. Some of us fight the whole aging thing, some of us embrace it....but I bet most of us are somewhere in the middle. 

At 50 you realize that you are never going to look 25. So the whole "hot" thing becomes more relative. Which is weird, because it's pretty relative all along. But different people take the whole aging process differently. 

I agree with skype. Enjoy what you have and quit trying to fix her.


----------



## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

I think a lot of this goes back to people always wanting what they don't have.

I sometimes bring lunch to my wife at the office, and I see this confident, self-assured, assertive woman who tells people what she thinks, makes important decisions without agonizing over it, and it makes me want her to bring a little bit of that side of herself home to me. It's incredibly sexy to me to watch her interact with her co-workers when she is like this.

Perhaps I need to accept that she has this other persona that the adopts in other parts of her life, and that the compliant, less confident personality she has with me in our personal life is what it is.

It's just frustrating to me to see this side of her that I find so appealing, and not be able to tap into it, or only seeing it while she is in IC. I have tried talking to her about this many times, but she just can't seem to flip the switch.

Maybe I just need to leave it alone.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I think this is a bad idea.

It's game-playing.


----------



## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

keeper63 said:


> I think a lot of this goes back to people always wanting what they don't have.
> 
> *I sometimes bring lunch to my wife at the office, and I see this confident, self-assured, assertive woman who tells people what she thinks, makes important decisions without agonizing over it, and it makes me want her to bring a little bit of that side of herself home to me. It's incredibly sexy to me to watch her interact with her co-workers when she is like this.*
> 
> ...


Have you told her this? What does she say?


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

keeper63 said:


> It's just frustrating to me to see this side of her that I find so appealing, and not be able to tap into it, or only seeing it while she is in IC. I have tried talking to her about this many times, but she just can't seem to flip the switch.
> 
> Maybe I just need to leave it alone.


There's a reason she doesn't want to be - or can't be - that person with you. Better to invest in figuring out THAT, than to try to manipulate her.


----------



## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

I understand that she can't be her work self 24/7, but I'd like to see more of that side of her at home.

When we were in MC, she mentioned that when she hears me on the phone with people I manage or work with, she likes how decisive and assertive I am. She also said that she wouldn't want me to be that way at home all the time, because I'd be impossible to live with.

Perhaps she is more disciplined about keeping her personas separate than I am. I think my work persona and home persona are a lot more alike than hers are.

Or it could be the old female stereotype whereby she simply prefers to let me be the dominant one in the marriage/personal relationship department. I don't mind being the dominant one, but it sure would be nice for her to take the lead more often than she does.

She is a desirable sexy woman, and I just wish she would listen to me when I tell her this/compliment her, and that she would show me her assertive, confident side more often, that's all.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Have you asked her why she isn't?


----------



## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

I have asked her that question several times, she tells me she's just not comfortable being that way with me (i.e. like she is as work). She would rather be passive around me.


----------



## Oldfaithful (Nov 27, 2013)

What if she says like "thanks my husband doesn't appreciate me so I rely on the students here to meet my needs."
Your spouse needs to get her needs met by you not by you pretending to be another person.
It is putting lies in your marriage and it's not right.


----------



## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

I wouldn't be cool with this. I'd consider it creepy. And if I then discovered my husband was behind it, ah, just not cool in my eyes.

I'd posted a few days ago about a female colleague telling me a guy in their team at work had admired me from afar and that's how she actually became aware of me - through his crush. I was oblivious to it. To him, I was the "really hot blonde" that he became painfully shy around. I remember saying hello and attempting conversation with a few of their team in the lift or staff kitchen and didn't take it personally when there wasn't much response... to then learn it was because this dude was crushing on me. Would never have thought that! It was flattering to learn of, and likely because it came via a female colleague/friend after the fact. 

I know my husband is attracted to me (although for him, it's the brunette version over the blonde) and while the above was flattering, that's all it is. While we can help support and boost one another as a couple, the core element of confidence, of just rocking who we are, needs to come from within ourselves. 

In saying that, I was taken aback yesterday by hubs. I was slothed on the couch, legs stretched out, wearing pajamas, hair a complete mess, having a cup of tea while we watched Grand Designs. We're so rock and roll. He said "You look absolutely beautiful.." It was completely unexpected and he meant it lol.

Like sandc, I also wonder if you've told your wife what you wrote here. I do know that my husband finds confidence and when I have 'conviction' (for lack of better of word) attractive. I guess other times, it's when I'm lazing about in pajamas.

On a romantic tip, how about leaving surprise notes for her - from you - that she can find?


----------



## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

heartsbeating said:


> In saying that, I was taken aback yesterday by hubs. I was slothed on the couch, legs stretched out, wearing pajamas, hair a complete mess, having a cup of tea while we watched Grand Designs. We're so rock and roll. He said "You look absolutely beautiful.." It was completely unexpected and he meant it lol.


I completely understand that. I've had the same moments with my wife. Just seeing her in her natural, relaxed beauty... sometimes I just have to punch myself right in the face to make sure I'm not dreaming all this.


----------



## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

keeper63 said:


> I compliment her frequently, but she thinks that I only do this to get her into bed or to make her feel better about herself.


Why do you compliment her then? 

Sounds like she needs to trust you and why you're expressing this.


----------



## Inside_Looking_Out (Apr 8, 2012)

keeper63, You have gotten a great many responses so far, so many, that I have not yet read the entire conversation. I am only into page 3. I apologize if this has been resolved already, or if this has already been pointed out.

There is yet another potential problem/reaction to your plan. The possibility that the 'anonymous' compliments and such will come to mean MORE to her than anything you could provide. Whether real or counterfit, her getting a dopamine rush, a self esteem boost from somewhere outside of your marriage is just not a healthy way to operate.

I know this to be true because I have been in these situations before. My husband and I went through an incredible rough patch. I needed more attention from him, so I thought, to boost up my own ego. And I say ego, not self esteem, because it in hindsight, it really was that. When I didn't get it, I started noticing where it was coming from. That next flirtation, that next compliment from a stranger or slight acquaintance, they all started to hold more weight to me than anything my husband could say to me. He could tell me I was pretty, and I would more than likely blow it off. But let some random guy on the street tell me, and it was like gold. Sure, it boosted me up to hear it...but it also devalued any compliment my husband tried to pay me. 

Would it do the same for her? I don't know. I don't want to say that just because it was my situation it will surely be yours. But...do you want to take that chance? If I had it to do over again, I would have tried even harder to see that I needed to boost my own self esteem up...not to make someone else responsible for my own notions of who I am in my own head.


----------



## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

keeper63 said:


> ...I tell her she is sexy *all the time*. She just doesn't seem to buy into it.


If you tell her this "all the time", it begins to lose it's appeal and starts to sound...fake. Like, you're STRUGGLING to either convince HER or convince YOURSELF. 

Hearing it over and over again can eventually start to sound *in*sincere. 

...which may explain why she doesn't seem to "buy" what you're "selling"...

Vega


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

keeper63 said:


> My wife is very accomplished in her career, serves on the board of a non-profit, is active in the art community, and is confident in her public/work persona (almost to the point of being called "intimidating").
> 
> So I'm not sure how I can boost her self-esteem by encouraging her achievements. The issue is that she doesn't see herself as being sexually attractive. Sure, I find her attractive, *and in fact I know others find her attractive (both men and women). She gets a lot of looks from men when we go out, and she gets looks from the younger guys at the gym as well.*
> 
> The challenge here is that she just doesn't see herself that way. Having a man eyeballing her in a restaurant just isn't the same as having one actually tell her that she is sexy. Like I said, her love language is words of affirmation, and I tell her she is sexy all the time. She just doesn't seem to buy into it.


I would assume, given your describing her attractiveness, that she is already getting male attention ...hits.......just doesn't talk about it... or dismisses it (but really that is a good thing)...



> She originally went to IC to work on some other relationship issues she had after we did some MC together. *The counselor did tell her that she had a TON of unresolved family issues she needs to work through (she grew up in a very dysfunctional/abusive family situation).*
> 
> Perhaps I should urge her to go back to IC to work on the family issues, and see if IC helps her regain some of the self-confidence she had the last time she was in IC?


 This explains much. 

See...if you already lavish the *Words of affirmation*/ sexual validation.... if she has a rewarding career, man are looking her up & down... and her husband is praising her on a regular basis.. this is so much deeper than anything a little ego boost can bring about from a stranger.... and if/ when she learns you was behind this.. trust broken.. 

Though I see you are now convinced this was a very bad idea....Tammers will give you all the ugly scenarios that can play out. 



keeper63 said:


> *I have asked her that question several times, she tells me she's just not comfortable being that way with me (i.e. like she is as work). She would rather be passive around me.*


Her sexual libido type is receptive, like many women... Have you ever talked to her about trying "ROLE PLAY" to introduce more of an assertive lead with you...



> *SunnyT said: **So she may not think of herself as sexy.... shouldn't even be an issue. Some people are humble about that, some aren't*.


 This is true too... a personality thing even.. Even if she had shining confidence, it doesn't mean she would be a vixen in the bedroom, that may not appeal to her.. unless she has made comments that she would LIKE to be free-er but something holds her back.

Using my own marriage here.. I wish my husband was more Dominate in bed.. It's MY WISH... not really HIS.. we've talked till we are blue in the face, I think you've been on one of those threads of mine... He is HAPPY with WHO HE IS and HOW he LOVES and makes LOVE... I need to be content with it... He wants to please me but he admits some of my fantasies are just NOT HIM... so the struggle remains.. it is small... but I am sure many others have similar tug of wars in this area. 

Not accepting compliments though.. this is another thing.. I mean we should have enough self worth to appreciate that our spouses love & adore us, see us as beautiful/ voluptuous &  when we share such thoughts.... I mean... even if she is a perfectionist (Is she a melancholy temperament? )...and can't understand it...still to have the grace to accept it and believe it.. this is something to work on. 



> *Faithful wife said*:*keeper...Self-esteem is something one has to develop for themselves. Having a secret admirer doesn't "give" you good self-esteem or a good self-image.
> 
> What might work better is sitting her down and telling her how deeply it affects you when she insults herself, and when she doesn't accept your genuine compliments.
> 
> It hurts when someone will not accept a sincere compliment, and from that angle, if she lets it sink in, she might "get it" and maybe open herself up to letting herself at least believe and be happy with YOUR admiration of her, even if she still won't give it to herself.*


 How very true this IS. :smthumbup:

What else can you do here... I am curious of one thing... if her love language is primarily "*Words of Affirmation"* - generally this is how SHE would show Love in return ..... 

Does she shower YOU with words of Affirmation at home ? Praising your work ethic, being a good dad, what you do around the house ? If you could get her to aim her uplifts in a more flirtatious manner, this may help a little..


----------



## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

heartsbeating said:


> I wouldn't be cool with this. I'd consider it creepy. And if I then discovered my husband was behind it, ah, just not cool in my eyes.
> 
> I'd posted a few days ago about a female colleague telling me a guy in their team at work had admired me from afar and that's how she actually became aware of me - through his crush. I was oblivious to it. To him, I was the "really hot blonde" that he became painfully shy around. I remember saying hello and attempting conversation with a few of their team in the lift or staff kitchen and didn't take it personally when there wasn't much response... to then learn it was because this dude was crushing on me. Would never have thought that! It was flattering to learn of, and likely because it came via a female colleague/friend after the fact.
> 
> ...


Isn't it strange how after all those years you can look at your partner and go "wow".

I've mentioned this before but a little while ago Mrs Wysh was helping me and my friend with our on going house rebuild project (and complaining about breaking her nails)

She was sat back on the window sill in those funny tight trousers that reach her knees, an oldish t shirt and her hair all messed up.

She looked awesome and she was 'lucky' our friend was there!


----------



## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

I appreciate everyone's feedback and input, and clearly the "secret admirer" idea has a lot of downside, and not a lot of upside (best case a fleeting ego boost), so I thank everyone for helping me decide not to go through with it.

I did want to clarify a few points. Our sex life is awesome. No problems there, any of you who have read my past posts would figure that out. The only sexual ramification of her not being confident around me is her inability to initiate as often as I would like, but that is a very small part of the issue to me.

I'd just like to see the confident, self-assured version of her around the house and with me more often.

I think the issue really lies with her childhood, and dysfunctional family. She was constantly told she was not good enough, while her sibling was doted on constantly. I think as she grew up, she developed this super-confident work/public persona and that was her way of compensating for her inner lack of confidence. 

She still sometimes sees herself as the tomboyish girl/teenager who wore hand-me-down clothes, instead of the sexy, accomplished woman that she really is. That is why I think she could benefit from more IC, but I don't feel like I can push her very hard in that direction. I can tell her she is sexy, but she has a hard time accepting that herself.

Thanks again for everyone's thoughtful input on this. This forum is a great resource!


----------



## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

keeper63 said:


> I sometimes bring lunch to my wife at the office, and I see this confident, self-assured, assertive woman who tells people what she thinks, makes important decisions without agonizing over it, and it makes me want her to bring a little bit of that side of herself home to me. It's incredibly sexy to me to watch her interact with her co-workers when she is like this.
> 
> Perhaps I need to accept that she has this other persona that the adopts in other parts of her life, and that the compliant, less confident personality she has with me in our personal life is what it is.
> 
> ...



Being able to be less-assertive (or non-assertive) at home, being able to rely on someone else to help make decisions (or to make all the decision) at home...these are the YIN to her YANG! It is what gives her life balance! 

How many times IRL have we seen powerful businessmen who go home and their wives rule the roost?!? It is 'down' time for the men...a chance to not always be in control and have the stress of every decision be on them.

It sounds like your wife has found a balance in her life between work time and home/personal time. QUIT MESSING WITH IT!

I am a 57-yo woman who works at a college. I look considerably younger than my age (so everyone tells me). I would find it creepy, annoying, immature to have an 18-22yo 'secret admirer'. It's very junior-high-school-ish! FWIW: Most women over 16 do NOT find 'secret admirers' intriguing; just really annoying.


----------



## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

If *she* is happy with herself the way she is, and if your sex life is "amazing", then why mess with a good thing? 

I hope you're not one of 'those' people who believes that EVERYTHING and EVERYONE can stand some 'improvement', and then sets out to 'improve' your partner. 

If it ain't broke, DON'T TRY TO "FIX" IT!

Vega


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Vega said:


> If you tell her this "all the time", it begins to lose it's appeal and starts to sound...fake. Like, you're STRUGGLING to either convince HER or convince YOURSELF.
> 
> Hearing it over and over again can eventually start to sound *in*sincere.
> 
> ...


Waving hand here, in acknowledgment. My mom told me all.the.time when I was growing up how pretty I was. So much so that I finally decided I must really be ugly, if she had to say it so much. I figured she was trying to convince herself. I've hated my looks all my life because of that.


----------



## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

sh987 said:


> I understand you wanting to improve her self esteem, but I think that this is a very bad idea and could blow up in your face.
> 
> -You can't fix her.
> -Why place her in a position where she feels like she's tempted to tell you lies?
> ...



:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

Don't do it


----------



## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

keeper63 said:


> Actually, I think I'm most interested in knowing how a woman would feel about getting a "secret admirer" email (flattered, creeped out, etc.). How you would feel about that would probably determine whether or not I wanted to take this a step further.


Didn't read all of the thread but I would be much happier if my DH sent me secret and somewhat dirty suggestions, as if he were trying to seduce me, being honest that it was him. Hiding his identity and doing it and me finding out would feel like he was playing nasty mind games, trying to create a situation and then catch me out.

As for how I'd feel getting a secret admirer message, flattered, concerned, uncomfortable. It's not going to have this awesome effect on my self image. Might even make me feel more self conscious wondering if I'd been sending out 'I'm open to having an affair' messages.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

keeper63 said:


> My wife has always had a bit of a self-esteem issue. Nothing super-serious, but she doesn't really see herself as being attractive to other men.
> 
> She is 50, brunette with dark hair and blue eyes, 5'1' and 115#, 34D, curvy in all the right places. She generally wears pretty conservative clothes for work and everyday, but when she dresses up for special occasions or when we go out, she really is a knockout. I see men looking at her when we go out, but she doesn't really notice. Think Jamie Lee Curtis in "True Lies".
> 
> ...


I think it's adorable! I see this could go on for a while. Then you start dropping hints, using a word that she will recognize as you. You two can play this kind of secret admirer game and fall in love all over again.

I love this idea!


----------



## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

Thanks, AP! You were just about the only female here who thought this was a good idea.

After all the feedback I received here, I decided not to carry this idea through to fruition. I do, however, appreciate the thoughtful input.

But I have to say that I find it paradoxical and somewhat ironic that several posters admonished me for "wanting to fix her"; meanwhile, there is a 9+ page post on the Ladies Lounge chock full of things the ladies wish their husbands would do/do better.

Like I said before, human nature is such that we often most want the very things we can't have.


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

(I'm jumping to the end without reading everything, so apologize in advance if I'm repeating points that have already been made.)

It is EXTREMELY common for a woman 50 and older to feel wistful and sad about what she perceives to be the permanent loss of her desirability. And let's face it, men aren't really giving the lie to that perception. A woman reaches a certain age & the men stop looking. It doesn't matter whether she's in great shape or 'looks good for her age.' People stop noticing and she feels it, pretty much everywhere she goes.

I think your idea is a poor one for all of the reasons stated, but also think that there isn't much you can do for how she feels about herself. If she is normal and healthy, she is mourning a bit the loss of what she feels to be her attractiveness as a woman. It is something she will sense as she is out and about in the world, but probably will not talk in any detail about to you.

The best you can do, in my opinion, is to genuinely demonstrate that you desire her as a woman. She may think it's a matter of duty for you as she gets older, but will nonetheless want to believe you.) Don't let your sex life get routine or rote. Buy her some intimate things. Be romantic in the things you say. Try to make her feel young.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

keeper63 said:


> I find it paradoxical and somewhat ironic that several posters admonished me for "wanting to fix her"; meanwhile, there is a 9+ page post on the Ladies Lounge chock full of things the ladies wish their husbands would do/do better.


I don't see the similarity. Women there complain that their husbands have no interest in meeting their needs. You're wanting your wife to be proud of herself. Unless what this really is all about is you want a sex machine in the bedroom and you think if she had better self esteem, she would be attacking you in bed?


----------



## LoveAtDaisys (Jul 3, 2013)

Personally: I would find ONE e-mail possibly sweet, if not creepy. Any more than one and I would be hounding everyone I knew to tell me who the creeper was so I could get them to back off.

IF you were to decide to do this, I do think I would approach it the way keeper mentioned. Ask her if she would like to introduce a roleplay into the relationship, and maybe have a "handsome stranger" talk to her.


----------

