# Considering Divorcing My Wonderful Husband



## Raindrops17 (Dec 29, 2018)

I apologize for the long post but I am desperate for advice on what I should do because I am truly lost. 

I’ve been married to my wonderful husband for a little under four years but we have been together for almost ten years. We are both in our early thirties. I have nothing but good things to say about him. He treats me with the utmost respect and consideration and always puts me first.

The issue I am having is that I feel so trapped in my relationship (and life in general) and blame myself for not being true to myself earlier on in my life. 

My husband ended up being my only real boyfriend if you will. I I dated causally before him but he was my first true boyfriend. 

We always have had a great relationship. We both are consistently there for one another and are so supportive. However, after becoming engaged, which was about five years into our dating, I started feeling as if I wish I had taken the time prior to be involved in a few other serious relationships before settling down so I wouldn’t have any regrets or doubts once I was married. I think it would have been important for me to see what it’s like to be in other serious relationships before settling down for the rest of my life. We did take short break after a few years of dating which is when I should have taken that opportunity but I did not and we got back together a month after.

There has always been something missing in our relationship for me but I never could figure out exactly what it was.

One issue I will say is centered around children. When we first started dating we both were on the same page of wanting a family, but after a few years in, my mind did change. I no longer had the desire to want to have children. I brought this to his attention and he felt as if I trapped him as we were already engaged at this time and just purchased a house. That was never my intention to make him feel trapped but I was having serious reservations about having children. I felt so guilty because he truly deserves to be a father as that has always been his dream. I decided to ignore my feelings and went through with having a child. We have a happy, energetic healthy nine month old whom I love dearly but I can’t help but also feel resentment towards my husband for unintentionally making me feel guilty for not wanting children. 

Fast forward to now and those feelings of wanting to see what else is out there as well as not wanting to be tied down with children has only intensified. I definitely have developed postpartum depression which has certainly complicated things and does need to be addressed at some point. 

I know my husband would like at least one more child, and I do think that is fair for my daughter to have a sibling but the thought of having another child makes me miserable.

I have partially opened up to my husband about my reservations on having more children. He does understand and most importantly wants my postpartum depression to get under control before even considering another child which I appreciate. He doesn’t however know that so much of me just wants to run away from this relationship as I feel so trapped and wish I would have allowed myself to be in other relationships before being tied down. I’m so miserable and feel I have no good options. I either stay married and continue to feel miserable or leave my relationship and cause my family to fall apart. Thank you for your time. Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thank you!


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I'm sorry you're going through this. I'm 68 and chose not to have children and have no regrets. I have a friend who was kind of in your position and had one for her man. I have other friends who also chose not to have them. So I come from a crowd who doesn't care, at least. Not everyone does. 

Can I ask what your family situation is, you know, siblings, parents? If you were to divorce while you have this young child, would any of them be reliable to sit so you could work full-time and support yourselves? Of course, in the US, it's typical now to have joint custody, 50/50, so he'd have the child 3 1/2 days a week (includes one weekend day) and so would you. This way, you Do have a certain amount of freedom to relax and do things you'd have done prior to marrying, although not that much time, given there's still grocery shopping, and all the shopping you do for kids and yourself, and handling all your own affairs by yourself, such as banking, being home for the plumber, etc. But it leaves you more time and flexibility than most women have who are married and doing most of the childcare. And it assures the child is not really missing anyone because she sees them both a lot every week. 

That said, your child is super young and probably does need its mother for at least another year or two. 

As for post-partum depression, I don't know if that's what you really have or if you just aren't enjoying your life, but you do need to find out if that is genuinely what you have (a psychologist) and see if there is a way to treat it and get past it before you make any rash decisions. 

As for having other serious relationships, that becomes quite a bit harder once you have a child and also the older you are, even if "older" is only 35. It just decreases your options a lot with men. It sounds like you have a decent relationship, and good men are hard to find. So that begs the question: What if you divorce but end up alone with just you and your part-time kid? Are you going to have to be paired up to be happy? Because there are NO guarantees you will find someone who makes you feel perfect in a relationship. I certainly never did. None of my friends ever did. 

I'm a big believe that every person should live all by themselves on their own for a couple of years before trying to mate up. You missed that, it sounds like. So do you even know if you'd like the independence of being on your own? Or are you more likely to really want a man around in a serious relationship, as you say? I totally get that you feel the need to explore. Some people have that drive and some are driven to settle down. Explorers should probably stay single. 

But what you can't do is go explore and then try to come back to your husband, because the resentment would tear you apart and it will never be the same. 

Get your mental state diagnosed and deal with it. If you are very depressed, it should be really hard to even think straight enough to make decisions, much less big ones. Then mull over what I've said about if you're a single at heart or a couple at heart. Because you have a man already for that. It's not really likely you'll find a better one, to be honest.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

You are in the one most difficult times for a married wife, life changes a lot after a new baby, your emotions are real and need to be discussed, but may be affected by your current situation.

You should print out the above and show it to your husband and maybe engage a counselor.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

Raindrops17 said:


> The issue I am having is that I feel so trapped in my relationship (and life in general) and blame myself *for not being true to myself earlier on in my life.*


What you think "being true to yourself" means is not some concrete phenomena, it's just a feeling that the grass is greener on the other side.



> My husband ended up being my only real boyfriend if you will. I I dated causally before him but he was my first true boyfriend.


You're my worst nightmare. Thankfully my wife, in the same boat as you, figured this issue out long ago, and early in our time together.

So, have you ever shot up heroin? From your description I see that you've never actually been a prostitute. Have you ever killed a bunny? The list goes on of things that you've never done. So once you are free of your husband you can go out and experience life, you can shoot up some heroin in order to experience a heroin high, then you can go sell your body in order to experience what that is like and, go and kill a bunny and maybe cook it in some guy's kitchen and have that "Glenn Close Experience" of being a deranged other woman to a married man. Hey, being a mistress is also something you've never done.

So what's my point here? I'm pretty sure that you can give me plenty of good reasons why you don't want to do any of the things I've laid out above. Your intellect can over-ride your curiosity.

So what's different about you wanting to experience sex with other men? Your girlfriends and culture have led you to believe that there is such a thing as a one-sided coin, that having many men comes with no opportunity cost. Right now you have something that your girlfriends can never again have. It doesn't matter if they come to be devoted to a man and marry him, he can never be her one and only. A person has only one shot at that road, you've got yourself a wonderful man and something unique. When you have quiet moments and think back to some sexual adventure, it is always with your husband. Maybe that's boring to you, maybe you want to have varied experiences with other men. One path though is not better than the other, your girlfriends can never have what you have, conversely you cannot have what they have. You're not being denied something special that they have but they are forever barred from having what you have, they can't go and unscrew those other men if they come to regret their choices.

You have the mental discipline to say "I'm not missing anything by not becoming a heroin junkie. I don't need to experience that path in order to know that I don't want it." Yet here you face a crisis of motivation. You could come to peace with your path but you seem to not want to, you seem to believe that there exists a one-sided coin, that having multiple men is the "only way to go" in order to have a fulfilled life. This sounds a lot like virgin girls knowing all about the wonders of sexually charged romances, something that they build up into a whirlwind affair and then after they experience their first romance they proclaim "Is that all there is?"



> There has always been something missing in our relationship for me but I never could figure out exactly what it was.


The road not taken. If you find yourself in the future to be a childless woman you will always wonder "What would life have been like if I was a mother of 3" and conversely, if you are a mother of three you will wonder what a childfree life would be like.



> One issue I will say is centered around children. When we first started dating we both were on the same page of wanting a family, but after a few years in, my mind did change. I no longer had the desire to want to have children. I brought this to his attention and he felt as if I trapped him as we were already engaged at this time and just purchased a house. That was never my intention to make him feel trapped but I was having serious reservations about having children. I felt so guilty because he truly deserves to be a father as that has always been his dream. I decided to ignore my feelings and went through with having a child. We have a happy, energetic healthy nine month old whom I love dearly but I can’t help but also feel resentment towards my husband for unintentionally making me feel guilty for not wanting children.


OK, now we're getting some meat on this problem. You're wishy-washy. You don't know your own mind well enough to enforce your vision. First you wanted kids, then you didn't, you didn't let your fiance go and find a woman who wants him and wants to have a family, you gave into him and had a child and now you resent HIM. He didn't do anything wrong!



> Fast forward to now and those feelings of wanting to see what else is out there as well as not wanting to be tied down with children has only intensified. I definitely have developed postpartum depression which has certainly complicated things and does need to be addressed at some point.


You're going to destroy two innocent lives because you have a curiosity about other men. In a way you have won a lottery early out, with your first guy. Lots of women have to kiss a lot of frogs to get their prince. You likely have high expectations of lots of princes out there that you're missing, I'd say you should instead self-examine and focus on how much you yearn to kiss all of those frogs. A general rule in life is "the good ones get snatched up early." You were a good one, so was your husband, After you divorce, he will still be a good one, but you no longer will. When you honestly tell your story to future beaus "I left my wonderful husband because I had a strong yearning for other men's cocks" you're going to be seen as damaged goods. With the good men being snatched up by women, you're going to be kissing a lot of frogs to find the few good men still out there. If some good men, like your husband, get released back into the dating pool, they're now carrying massive baggage from rejection, divorce, betrayal, that gets put on his new woman's plate, that new woman might be you.



> I know my husband would like at least one more child, and I do think that is fair for my daughter to have a sibling but the thought of having another child makes me miserable.


You have two overlapping problems. A desire for new **** and a despair about having another child. The former is not really a solution to your general depression and your specific feelings about children. It's quite likely that the latter is a direct result of your depression and the former is being cast as a solution to your depression. When you are in a non-depressed state of mind, the former is, mostly, an intellectual question, no different than the heroin issue, just because an experience exists doesn't mean you MUST go forth and experience it. It's a matter of weighing opportunity costs. But when you're depressed, then you're grasping for everything and anything as being a better way only to find out, after you've burned your bridges, that you're not really feeling like you've gained what you were seeking.



> I have partially opened up to my husband about my reservations on having more children. He does understand and most importantly wants my postpartum depression to get under control before even considering another child which I appreciate. He doesn’t however know that so much of me just wants to run away from this relationship as I feel so trapped and wish I would have allowed myself to be in other relationships before being tied down. I’m so miserable and feel I have no good options. I either stay married and continue to feel miserable or leave my relationship and cause my family to fall apart. Thank you for your time. Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thank you!


In the end you are who you are, you can either live by controlling your impulses or live by following them. You can intellectualize this desire for new **** or not. If not, then you will divorce and go out on a ****-frenzy, it's not a problem at all for women to get boned every night by new guys if that is what they truly want. But understand that every choice you make comes with that opportunity cost, to get that new **** is going to come at some cost to you, maybe minimal but it very well could come at a catastrophically high cost.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

LIsten, the time right after a child kinda makes everyone want to run away. You admit to post partum. I think seeing a counselor should be your first step.

Don't have a second child unless you both want one. Children deserve two parents.
As far as wishing to figure out what else is out there..... Well most of it's ****. I dated lots before I met my husband and If you have this wonderful supportive person who is more interested in your mental health then his desire for a second child and all that well you have already found the cream of the crop. Don't let your mental defect mess this up. 

I can say when I was young I had mental defect as well (of still do) and when I realized how great my husband was and how much I wanted him a part of me that is self sabotaging wanted to run or ruin it. I thank God daily that I resisted that impulse and have been happy for 27 years.

Think this through and also seek help before making big decision when self admitted in a mental state.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Everyone with babies wants to jump into a VW van and run off to the mountains and hang out at some outdoor Grateful Dead concert with a bunch of hippies. 

Babies suck the lifeforce right out of you. 

But the real message here is seek help for your depression. It is real and it can be treated and you can get through it and out the other side.

I’m not saying the whole rest of your life will be 24/7 sunshine and unicorns forever.

But one step at a time. Seek help for the PPD first and get through that and then reevaluate.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Lots of good advice here. My suggestion would be to see a therapist or psychologist and make sure your mind is right.

The road not travelled is described great by other people in here. There are plenty of roads you’re better off not traveling.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

What do you think you are missing? What do you want to experience? Because most of the time, the grass is not greener on the other side. Be careful what you wish for.

It seems to me you had some emotional problems before pregnancy and now those issues are highlighted by postpartum hormones. If you are not in love with your husband, be honest and let him go. If he's a good man, he deserves to be happy.

Get help with your post partum depression. 

I feel sad for both of you.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

This is one of two identical threads. Perhaps merge them together.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Your husband sounds like a pretty good father and husband. I'm sure he would be happy with full custody of the kids leaving you complete freedom to live the carefree single girl life. 

Like what @ccpowerslave said you need mental intervention. If you're going through postpartum depression, that needs to be treated. You said that needs to be dealt with at some point, well this is that point. A therapist is also called for to deal with the issue of dealing with the mystery of what you missed out on. What you're going through is by no means uncommon for women who married their first boyfriend, the right therapist will be able to help you significantly.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

happyhusband0005 said:


> Your husband sounds like a pretty good father and husband. I'm sure he would be happy with full custody of the kids leaving you complete freedom to live the carefree single girl life.


I'm a big proponent of giving people what they ask for. Your suggestion is wise.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

So go get checked out, it's very possible these feelings are coming from a hormone imbalance. Don't just run away that is not what responsible adults do. Go talk to someone before you blow up everyone's world.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

@Raindrops17

I merged your two threads since they are on the same topic. You will get better input with one thread.


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## Married_in_michigan (Apr 9, 2014)

as others have mentioned, if you feel you are facing depression or still dealing with pre-baby emotional wounds, you need to consider getting help for those first and foremost. None of what you shared is uncommon, but it can stay with you a long time and do a lot of damage if you don't seek out help. If nothing else, get to a counselor who can help you sort out the emotional struggles. I have done my fair share of counselling and really feel it was helpful


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

If you feel like you are missing in this relationship, that this is not the one, I do not think this feeling will get better, it will only intensify. The longer you wait, the more trapped you feel, IMHO.


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## 347055 (Nov 7, 2020)

This reminds me of midlife crisis, not sure if females experience that. I had many friends and one boss who at 35-55 years old left their wives and family for a 20 something ( in two cases topless dancers ) because they thought life was passing them by. One of my managers quit his highly paid job and moved into a commune with a flower child. Not sure how any of them eventually turned out, but can't imagine the endings were happy ones.

So, the OP can ( and likely will ) carry through and embark on the path not taken. The "opportunity cost" previously mentioned can be enormous. My wife and I know several female acquaintances who found out the hard way that their walk on the wild side wasn't the fun they thought it would be. They had no trouble finding tons of men happy to pump and dump them, one even embarked on an ltr with sociopath who beat h*ll out of her constantly, all of them would have gladly gone back to the person they left originally.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Rus47 said:


> This reminds me of midlife crisis, not sure if females experience that. I had many friends and one boss who at 35-55 years old left their wives and family for a 20 something ( in two cases topless dancers ) because they thought life was passing them by. One of my managers quit his highly paid job and moved into a commune with a flower child. Not sure how any of them eventually turned out, but can't imagine the endings were happy ones.
> 
> So, the OP can ( and likely will ) carry through and embark on the path not taken. The "opportunity cost" previously mentioned can be enormous. My wife and I know several female acquaintances who found out the hard way that their walk on the wild side wasn't the fun they thought it would be. They had no trouble finding tons of men happy to pump and dump them, one even embarked on an ltr with sociopath who beat h*ll out of her constantly, all of them would have gladly gone back to the person they left originally.


Really? and how many divorced their spouses, and went on living better, happier lives?


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## 347055 (Nov 7, 2020)

Zero


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

As a maternity nurse my only suggestion can be to get some therapy for possible postpartum depression. If you still want to leave the life you've described as quite wonderful for parts unknown I guess you could leave your child with your husband and go see what else life has to offer. I'm sad to say I think you might find it's not all you've built it up to be in your mind. Talk to some single women/mothers and see what life is like for them. You should know what your jumping into before you actually jump.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

WandaJ said:


> Really? and how many divorced their spouses, and went on living better, happier lives?


You got your answer - zero. That's not a surprising answer, by the way. When a spouse leaves a happy marriage because of feeling unfulfilled, their lack of fulfillment is something within them, so it should be no surprise that these damaged people can't find that sense of fulfillment when matched with other people. It's even more unlikely that they're going to end up living "better, happier lives." 

It's one thing to leave a marriage where you have a dead bedroom or your spouse is beating you, that's a pretty damn low bar to pass over, so those folks most likely will find themselves a better marriage, though late in life marriages usually involve the pairing of two people carrying massive amounts of baggage, nevertheless, they're still better off than they were in the dysfunctional marriage. This though is not the case when dealing with walkaways who have internal damage and just can't be happy with life, even a good life.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Lance Mannion said:


> You got your answer - zero. That's not a surprising answer, by the way. When a spouse leaves a happy marriage because of feeling unfulfilled, their lack of fulfillment is something within them, so it should be no surprise that these damaged people can't find that sense of fulfillment when matched with other people. It's even more unlikely that they're going to end up living "better, happier lives."
> 
> It's one thing to leave a marriage where you have a dead bedroom or your spouse is beating you, that's a pretty damn low bar to pass over, so those folks most likely will find themselves a better marriage, though late in life marriages usually involve the pairing of two people carrying massive amounts of baggage, nevertheless, they're still better off than they were in the dysfunctional marriage. This though is not the case when dealing with walkaways who have internal damage and just can't be happy with life, even a good life.


Apparently is not that happy for her. If it was, she would not consider leaving it. He might be a nice guy, but he might not be the guy for her. It would have been better if she realized that before the baby, of course.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

WandaJ said:


> Apparently is not that happy for her. If it was, she would not consider leaving it. He might be a nice guy, but he might not be the guy for her. It would have been better if she realized that before the baby, of course.


The classic example to use here is depression. It doesn't matter how many different relationships a depressed person gets involved in, their depression will leave them with a blah feeling in every single relationship.

Is that the case here? Hard to say, but quite probable.

Is this marriage really a "lack of chemistry" situation where a different guy/husband would provide that needed, post-infatuation, spark and chemistry? Unanswerable at this point.

Is there dysfunction in this marriage? Not by the OP's testimony,

So now it's a roll of the dice, will she actually find a better man and a better relationship elsewhere. Chemistry is really tough to assign odds to. She might love, LUV, being a biker chick and passed around, it might make her feel alive to be a motorcycle mama. We can't say because we don't know and she doesn't know. Anything is possible when it comes to chemistry. 

I though don't see a personality mismatch, not with their history together, so I don't think she is going to find better chemistry out there, she's in an emotionally rich marriage, that speaks to some level of chemistry. Their communication is pretty good as evidenced by her ability to talk about changing plans with respect to children. Playing the odds, it's more likely that she'll find men with whom she has less emotional connection and less communication depth.

In the end, no matter how much analysis she does, it is going to be a leap of faith. Husband is not the guy for her, therefore the guy must be out there somewhere and she's going to go hunt for him. That's one hell of a huge leap though.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I find this very sad. Honestly you havent missed out on anything by not having had loads of relationships and sex with other men. I do think you are thinking that the grass is greener but it rarely is. You have a kind caring man and a healthy baby, do you want to risk blowing up their lives just to find other men to date to see if it makes you feel better?? Are you willing to risk that??
Its hard to say if this is anything to do with PPD, the baby is older now and it doesn't sound as if you have felt ill/bad enough to get any sort of medical diagnosis up till now. Also you felt this way before the baby so maybe its just made your feeling of having missed out seem worse. As you said you have a wonderful husband and you may never find such a good man again, especially as you now have a child to think of. I honestly highly doubt if dating and having sex with other men is the answer, if anything it will make you feel worse and more troubled.
Maybe getting some counselling may help you.


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## 347055 (Nov 7, 2020)

Lance Mannion said:


> ...Husband is not the guy for her, therefore the guy must be out there somewhere and she's going to go hunt for him.


The OP says she doesn't want to be tied down by children, is miserable, and wants to see "what else is out there". Seems she has already decided to be a WAW in her head, only hesitating because her husband is "wonderful". So, advice from anyone makes no difference in the eventual outcome, only the timing. Counseling is also pointless because the decision has already been made.

So, sooner is better than later for her as well as for the child who she regrets bearing and the husband who isn't exciting enough to suit her. Another case of a "nice guy" left holding the bag who wasted a decade of his life trying to make a family with someone who didn't want a family. And, another vote for being 100% alpha. Nice guys indeed finish last every time. 

No doubt she can find all of the excitement she seeks, a biker bar ought to be her first stop after the divorce is final.


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## Raindrops17 (Dec 29, 2018)

Thank you everyone for your responses and insight into this matter. I appreciate it more than you know! 

I wanted to give you a little more information and clarification into my situation for those that are interested. I apologize in advance as I feel like I don’t always do the best in articulating my problems. 

The more I try to analyze and understand my dilemma, the more I am realizing that I never fully connected with my husband on a level that I needed, a deeper level. Honestly, I feel like deep down I have always known this but I never truly allowed myself to acknowledge it. 

I feel like I checked off all of those “social convention” boxes when I married my husband. My husband is kind, reliable, steady, hard working, committed, career-driven, etc all of which is incredibly important in any relationship but also reads safe. For some reason I am needing more. I’m needing to connect on a deeper level (whatever that may be). 

I have tried to quiet that voice inside of me that keeps saying “he just isn’t the one for you” for many years because I know how incredibly lucky I am to have such a wonderful person in my life, but I just can’t. It keeps coming back and getting louder with each passing day. 

I know many of you prob think when I said “I need to see what else is out there” you took it as I want to sleep around and have all these sexual experiences since I have only been with my husband, and that honestly couldn’t be further from the truth. Sex truthfully is the least of my concern in this matter. 

I don’t disagree with any of you when you say the grass isn’t greener on the other side. That I should count my blessings and not tear my family apart and that I may never find what I think I am looking for and you all may be very right. It’s a huge gamble to take, my family’s happiness is on the line and there is a good chance I will be worse off. I completely agree with you and trust me, I wish more than anything I didn’t feel this way. I wish that I could find the strength to just ignore these feelings. Maybe I will find that strength and learn to be happy with the life I have. I guess time will tell. 

I absolutely need to get my PPD evaluated and under control as that too can be contributing to how I feel. I am a nurse in Women’s Health so I know the impact this can have in all aspects of one’s life.

There is so much for me to evaluate in my life. I have a lot of soul searching and introspection to do before I take any action.

Thank you all again for taking the time to offer your opinions in helping me figure this all out. Just getting this off my chest has helped. Take care!


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Not sure if you checked out but I can imagine what you’re saying. I can see it would be possible to autopilot yourself into a marriage and a kid without having discussed your hopes and dreams and most intimate feelings with that person.

I wouldn’t, but I can envision that someone is capable of doing it.

Why isn’t your husband that person? Why can’t you seek a deep connection with him or is there nothing there to work with?


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

Raindrops17 said:


> I wish that I could find the strength to just ignore these feelings. Maybe I will find that strength and learn to be happy with the life I have. I guess time will tell.


No one out in the real world thinks becoming a heroin junkie, a meth addict, is a good choice. Every such junkie knows, THEY KNOW, that shooting up is bad. Every shopaholic knows that every new purchase on her credit card is going to be painful when the bill arrives in the mail. Every gambling addict knows the cost involved when he is blowing through his kids' college funds or remortgaging his house in order to roll the dice one more time, this time the lucky time.

Everyone involved knows the score and yet they still do it. Why do they do it? Because their compulsion to do it is stronger than their ability to refrain from doing it.

You're in the same boat. You have some sense of lack of fulfillment, an emptiness, and you want a deeper connection to a man so that you can be fulfilled. I very much doubt you're going to find that man. The problem is within you, it's most likely not that you're lacking just the right guy.

On the chance that this is actually a chemistry mismatch with your husband, you're going to have a hell of a search problem on your hands in trying to find just the right guy who does fulfill you because every single new guy is going to put you in a 2-year infatuation cycle before you're even in a place where you can evaluate whether you have that sparkling chemistry which can last a lifetime.

My suggestion is this, before you give up on your husband, have him read two books, "No More Mister Nice Guy" and "Married Man Sex Life Primer." Marriage domesticates men and domesticated men tend to turn off their wives. The problem with his reform effort is that you become aware of exactly what he is doing, the reforms work best when the wife is in the dark about what is going on, that though doesn't mean that there is trickery going on, if your husband simply taps into what is already in him, you may well respond positively even while knowing what is going on.

Before you destroy the lives of two innocents, it's worth taking the time to see if this last Hail Mary Pass produces results, and feelings within you, that you are happy with.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Not everyone with depression wants to run away from little screaming babies at this stage in life. And you seem hopeful for the future - not hopeless. You envision a bright future for yourself away from them. That is good news. 

What steps have you taken to get help by yourself?? Seen a doctor or psychologist yet?? Do you have girlfriends, do you ask them how they feel, ask them for help, talk about stuff?

Or are you leaving this to your husband to sort out? Please don’t put this all on him to fix, it’s your job.

Best thing would be to leave now and save your baby and husband a lifetime of pain. and yourself!!

Our mother was like this and we grew up hearing how we ruined her lives, she felt trapped, missed out on so much and on and on. We spent decades feeling less than human, we all suffered incapacitating mental illness and addiction.

We learned early on never to ask for anything, good help us if we got sick, we can remember not being allowed to ask for help when feeling ill in fear of HER pain. Babies grow into toddlers and big kids and teens and adults and you are the parent FOREVER. They vomit, wreck your stuff, stress you to your limits. But there is joy in so much of this. Every bad boring moment becomes something you move to ‘yesterday’. But here’s something - some of us look back and forget the feelings that come with that. Years of food thrown on the floor you just cleaned, but when some of us look back all we can remember are the chubby little fingers and eyes wide with hope (and eyelashes probably laced with yoghurt) Mummy I am learning to eat, isn’t it awesome!! 

As we got older my mum dabbled in so many different things to reclaim what she missed out on. We took her shopping, took her on holidays etc. When we pushed for an explanation as to her anger and misery she tried to say she had ppd. We bought her books, tried to suggest therapy etc. she never once went to talk to someone or read any of the books. (But boy did she love the holidays and good times!)

I often asked and probed her as I got older and did not stop I wanted answers. She would fly into rages. ‘I just want to have a good time!’ I gave up my youth for you bastards!’ Truly, there are so many kids out there fantasising about orphanages and foster homes.

She once spoke of how she terrorised her parents and siblings and whenever the family would go somewhere she would pout and stay in the car and ruin every special occasion, outing, everything. Looking at her childhood photos, she was always staring angrily into the camera, arms crossed etc.
She was born this way. Now I’m really hoping you’re not like this, our case was probably extreme 😊

We all eventually cut her out of our lives so she could have what she wanted, no responsibility (not that she ever really had any anyway). Zero contact, and I mean zero. Here and there, I sometimes spot her from a distance, she’s still got that same face. And we all can finally breath and know it wasn’t us or ppd after all. And she never once made that doctor’s/psychologist’s appt. sheesh what a waste of a life. 

I don’t feel sorry for you and I say this with real kindness - the greatest gift we could have given her is to not feel sorry for her, she was carried through her whole life by people who felt sympathy for her. I really don’t mean to be cruel, I am not bitter or scared by my experiences. But I hope your husband stops being so understanding really soon. It will be the best thing for you, I promise. And for him.

I’m sure you’ll hear lots of advice and suggestions and stories of how sad this is. I’ve known plenty of women like you, it always always ends badly for them. There will however be a happy ending for your husband and child eventually! Definitely! They will not end up bitter and miserable, he sounds like an angel your daughter is soooo lucky.

But you... will you be bitter and miserable in the end? What are you going to do for YOU?

I truly wish you the best, and please know I mean no harm when I say I don’t feel sympathy for you.


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## 347055 (Nov 7, 2020)

Lance Mannion said:


> Before you destroy the lives of two innocents, it's worth taking the time to see if this last Hail Mary Pass produces results, and feelings within you, that you are happy with.


I vote no Hail Mary Pass, the OP has already left the building. The beta husband would be wasting more years trying to fix a problem that he can't fix. ( and thanks to the OP's dishonesty isn't even aware exists. Best thing for everyone is for the divorce to happen ASAP so the OP can get on with ruining her life.

I have two relatives who spent their lives destroying kids and spouses while they bounced from person to person trying to find excitement. One died broke and ignored, the other is still a "work" in progress. Best to become a grey rock for people like that.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Raindrops17 said:


> I apologize for the long post but I am desperate for advice on what I should do because I am truly lost.
> 
> I’ve been married to my wonderful husband for a little under four years but we have been together for almost ten years. We are both in our early thirties. I have nothing but good things to say about him. He treats me with the utmost respect and consideration and always puts me first.
> 
> ...


I advise counseling and possibly other professional mental health services as well as making sure you are healthy physically on a hormonal level.

Your problems really do seem to be in your head and screwing around and screwing up your marriage will not help you with your problems.

It is possibly fairly common for people to go through phases of what if and thinking about having others.

I've gone through it at times and it can become overpowering if you let it and have it grow into an obsession.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

P.S. I have a friend whose wife is doing what you feel you want to. She is absolutely destroying her life and everything good she built but at least she is getting to be with a class act that can't hold a candle to her soon to be ex.

It is important to identify and classify destructive urges, impulses and emotions and learn to control them and put them on the right shelf in your mind so they don't rise in importance among your priorities.


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## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

Warning: I had a visceral reaction to some of the things you wrote because it was a strong echo of my experiences (from the husband's perspective) so I'm likely projecting a little bit but I might also just have some relevant experience.

My ex wife also married the checklist that I represented. She spent several years "hoping she would (re)develop feelings" for me. She also mentioned that she hadn't ever really dated anyone else or had a chance to be an adult on her own. Even as she was giving me the divorce talk, she mentioned several times that I was a "great guy" that "did nothing wrong". 

You probably should leave ASAP and having any children with someone you didn't really care for was a mistake.

Are you going to find someone that is as "good" of a person / man? Probably not but at least you _might_ actually care for them.

Is it going to hurt everyone like hell? Sure is and it isn't going to get better the longer you wait.

Is your husband going to continue to care for you for a while after you dump him? He shouldn't but probably will. DO NOT lead him on or give false hope. DO be honest about how you really feel. DO the heavy lifting for the logistics of the dissolution of your relationship since you're already emotionally disengaged.

Do not stay in your child's life if you are going to continue resenting them. My ex's mom seems to resent her husband and children and they don't really like her much as a result.

Dating: I hope you like d*ck pics because from multiple sources I've heard that's what you're likely to get once you start dating. I've also seen lots of laments about "Where are all the good men at?" and you really don't have the right to ask that question since you know at least one that you're dumping for a lack of compatibility / life goals. The closest question that you might be able to ask is something like, "Is there a man out there that exactly matches my life perspective and excites me?" which is completely different.


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## manowar (Oct 3, 2020)

Raindrops17 said:


> I feel like I checked off all of those “social convention” boxes when I married my husband. My husband is kind, reliable, steady, hard working, committed, career-driven, etc all of which is incredibly important in any relationship but also reads safe. For some reason I am needing more. I’m needing to connect on a deeper level (*whatever that may be*).


this is textbook. she married a nice beta guy and (*whatever that my be*) dreams of a more masculine guy who has his **** together but at the same time is considerate and understanding on a deeper level. hubby is too nice right. He's more like a friend than a husband.



Raindrops17 said:


> Sex truthfully is the least of my concern in this matter.


 Bet sex with hubby is routine and predictable. Kinda dull? he's passive and doesn't take the lead the way you want him to?
He's too agreeable, accommodating. Puts you on a pedestal. Thinks you're a queen (you know otherwise).

Your husband thinks he has the best marriage in the world. Is he a flowers kind of guy? He reads safe. You mean he's boring. you should address this stuff with him (if this applies to your situation). I have a feeling it does. he's not a mind reader. I'm sure he believes he's doing everything he's supposed to be doing to make you happy. there's a good chance that he doesn't like the boring sex either. its just who he is. he doesn't know any better and probably has been raised to treat women like Disney princesses. This syndrome is programmed into these nice guys. Try to Fix it first before you destroy the guy. he deserves a chance to prove himself considering everything he has done for you.


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## 347055 (Nov 7, 2020)

Raindrops17 said:


> I’ve been married to my* wonderful husband* for a little under four years but we have been together for almost ten years. We are both in our early thirties. I have nothing but good things to say about him.* He treats me with the utmost respect and consideration and always puts me first.*


Yep, he is 100% beta. Which OP never wanted but still doesn't realize. He can't become an alpha no matter how many self-help books he reads, in his thirties the die is firmly cast. I have met very few people able to change their basic personality characteristics by reading a book, watching a video, or actually by any other action.

OP hanging around longer isn't going to "fix" him. Hopefully she will file, get the travesty over with so the beta can move on with life. Maybe somewhere there is a woman who will want him ( with a child in tow? ). Then the OP can compete with the 20 somethings for the 100% alphas. She will need to up HER game no doubt, and encounter plenty of males willing to mount her but who will never "want" her.

One small additional issue noticed is the OP was with the beta for six years before marriage and then a kid. Since it is usually the female who pushes for a ring ( most males are fine not buying the cow if they already have enough milk free ), assume the OP was the one with bright idea of marrying a man to "check off boxes"? Then decides to produce a baby that she cares nothing about? A user for sure, who deserves everything she eventually receives.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Try to figure out just what is missing and what you're looking for. Your husband may be up for it. He may be just as bored as you. You can explore travel and see what places interest you and which activities would peak your interest. True, you won't be able to actually travel for a while; but, you can imagine the trips and check out destinations and such. Look for local activities that would interest you. 

You can't run away from yourself.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Sounds like you want a bad boy. You know why they're called "bad boys"? Because they are selfish, irresponsible, bad guys. I wonder if you'll feel fulfilled when you have no idea if your rent got paid or if he went and spent it on a hooker. Or when you're home alone and you're not sure if he's at the bar or off with some tramp, or you wonder if that lesion you have is herpes???? THIS is what women who want bad boys end up dealing with...I see some serious regret in your future. 

This thread makes me very sad for your husband and for you and what you are going to put yourself through. Such a shame.


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## Imperfections (Nov 26, 2020)

Raindrops17 said:


> Fast forward to now..


Sorry to hear about your issues..


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## 347055 (Nov 7, 2020)

The OP has likely left the thread, her last post indicated she was still trying to decide what to do. The animal inside of her has known from day one it wanted a confident, dominant, male. That animal will not rest until it's wants are satisfied no matter the cost to others and herself.



Blondilocks said:


> Your husband may be up for it. He may be just as bored as you.


The beta has no clue there is anything wrong. The OP has been telling him for a decade how wonderful he is. Now she is either going to hopefully divorce him without warning, or hang around until another male taps into her desire for a dominant partner. Either way, the beta won't know what hit him. He will maybe post on some forum asking how can he salvage the marriage.



notmyjamie said:


> Sounds like you want a bad boy.


I think all "bad boys" are alphas but not all alphas are "bad boys". The head of my division at work was most definitely 100% alpha, but not a "bad boy". He had his pick of many women single and married chasing after him,. never had an ltr with any of them, but of course he happily enjoyed all that they offered.


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## seadoug105 (Jan 12, 2018)

Hhhmmmm.... 

perhaps a deeper connection is being felt elsewhere.... if OP returns we will probably hear about how she has been un happy for a long time now... 

Yadda...
Yadda...
Yadda...


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

Do you truly know what you think you want? Experiences, Emotions/feelings, Relationship safari??

Do you and your husband know each others needs? Are you familiar with Dr. Harley's works? Your husband must care for you to be felt to be a good husband. There seems to never have been the passion you are searching for. Passion is usually fleeting, limerence that is resurrected on occasion but grows into deeper bonding.

Feeling empty could have many sources, but is not another's doing or lack of doing. It is the sum of who you are and what you stand for.

Just please do not think you will find 'happiness' this way. Another person will not 'make' us happy. Happiness comes from our efforts toward others.


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## manowar (Oct 3, 2020)

Rus47 said:


> Now she is either going to hopefully divorce him without warning, or hang around until another male taps into her desire for a dominant partner. Either way, the beta won't know what hit him.


When another male taps her desire she won't be able to resist, thus the affair ensues (it just happened) thus falling in love with another man who "gets" her. Hey the connection is deep OK. A new love continues and blossoms (how sweet). This also sets up the 9 mo In and Out play. [line up the new guy 9 mos before delivering the riddle. everyone knows this by now don't they? yeah everyone except the husband] The clock is now ticking for clueless husband. She is in la la land. the new guy gets BJS and anal while husband will soon get a riddle. At least its not nothing. Its sort of thoughtful. -- Riddles are pretty cool right.? Who doesn't appreciate a good riddle. heck, I appreciate a riddle as much as the next guy and I bet her husband does too!

the clueless husband finds out and that's when he gets hit w/ ILYBIANILWY. Yes husband is now in the ILYBIANILWY - zone from which there is no escape. the decision has been made in favor of BBB -- bigger badder better.. A confusing place for many a man. At first its a puzzling place that makes little sense because everything was perfect. This must be some kind of a joke? the clueless nice guy will fight back. he'll buy flowers which makes things even worse. What he doesn't know is that he's already been checkmated. So what does the nice married guy get while BBB gets BJs and anal. Nice guy gets separated. Bad enough since his 'best friend' is acting crazy. But in a few months, he'll get the honor of paying alimony and child support. Great deal for the married guy. But hey. He was in love and found his soul mate. they were best friends too (can't forget that). Let's not forget about the now ex-husband. He's no chump. he's got a plan damn it. That plan is now in full force after the divorce goes through -- finding a new soul mate of course. this time he's going to find one that really understands him. These guys never learn. 

But it won't be a bed of roses for the Riddler either. BBB likes this arrangement. He doesn't want a wife. Golly he's already got one and she's a nag. Plus STBEH (clueless joe) will probably muster up the courage to tell the BS about the affair which will shut it down quickly. OP Wife with child in toe tow will find herself alone in the jungle. OP doesn't realize having a child with the kind of guy she wants is a big negative. Also at 35 the wall lurks and she knows it. that's why she's having these thoughts now. the flower of her youth has its limits. Her Prime fertility years behind her. . Not many years left before the full effects of the wall become pronounced. I hope the OP is hot. the competition for top 15% guys is keen. Also top 15% guys understand the game. They don't fall for that soul mate best friend crap. even more so they don't like the possibility of paying alimony and child support. These guys would rather stay single than even risk the possibility of a lifetime of payments to the ex. Who could blame them? The Nice Guy doesn't understand this concept. 15%ers know marriage is a rigged game. they leave marriage for the nice guys. That's the nice guys role in life. to marry these women up and give them support and security. The masculine guy with his **** together who understands her isn't going to respond to requests for marriage like the nice guy does. Sure she likes the way the new guy talks to her - dirty and smirky and the way he slaps her in the ass. But she doesn't understand why he won't commit. Maybe he's a commitment-phobe. Yeah that's it. Finally after several years the OP has had it. She's wasted to much time on this non commital guy and she demands a ring or else she's going to start dating. Go ahead and date -- he says. A few weeks later OP is with a much older man pushing 70 who absolutely adores her. 2 years later OP cant believe how she ended up with this shlub. Sometimes better to forget than remember.


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## 347055 (Nov 7, 2020)

manowar said:


> . OP Wife with child in toe tow will find herself alone in the jungle. OP doesn't realize having a child with the kind of guy she wants is a big negative.


If it were only so. Remember she didn't want the child, had it cuz beta wanted one, the OP doesn't want it now. So she will willingly give the nice guy full custody, alimony, and attorney fees.

OP will have fun for awhile until she hits the mentioned wall in fewer years than she knows. The beta's fate was predetermined by his poor education about how the jungle works. Anyone who has ever watched animals in the wild understands that the alpha mates all of the females HE wants to, the betas get only what they can sneak by the alpha.


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## Raindrops17 (Dec 29, 2018)

Thank you all for your insight. You have given me a lot to thank about. You are right that most of the issues are issues within myself. It is crucial that I take this time to go to counseling to sort myself out before making any determination on what happens in my relationship. Thank you again.


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## manowar (Oct 3, 2020)

Raindrops17 said:


> You are right that most of the issues are issues within myself.


can you be more specific on what you "really" want or expect from your husband and how you feel you are being let down? Or the things you are missing out on. perhaps you can nudge your husband in a new direction. There are things he can do.

I think you and your husband are out of balance in the masculine-feminine dynamic. This arises when the husband treats the wife as a best friend and not a WIFE. opposites attract. Best friends are likes. they are not opposites. The air so to speak has been let out of that M-F tension. A good relationship needs that tension/opposition for a strong attraction. My guess is your husband's masculinity has dropped (at least your perception of it has and consequently your attraction level) He might need to up his game in the role of Husband.This is very common in men who are married for a few years. the man adopts a status quo position becoming a pleaser rather than a leader. Female nature wants the male to lead. Reason has been turned on its head in the western society. The culture has poisoned the minds of countless men with total ********. this is where this nonsense about soul mate, best friend and cuddling arises w/ these nice guys. And also the reason these nice guys get run over. Nice Guys basically need some reprogramming. the wires in their brain have short-circuited. Nice guys also make for good husbands. I doubt the guy who you are married to is going to visit escorts, go to Vegas, or bang a co-worker when he is away on business. In life there are tradeoffs. You can't get everything you want in life. Its not how it works.

Check out the book the married man sex life primer by athol kay . this book lays this stuff out. the rational male is another book he should probably read to reprogram his nice guy thinking. this might be helpful.


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## 347055 (Nov 7, 2020)

manowar said:


> The culture has poisoned the minds of countless men with total ******. this is where this nonsense about soul mate, best friend and cuddling arises w/ these nice guys. And also the reason these nice guys get run over.


If only reading a few books could fix a nice guy. Believe the ship has sailed, the horse has left the barn. Unfortunately, by the time the OP's husband finds out he isn't what she wanted, he is middle-aged with a child. He believed her words for a decade, not realizing that she never expressed her true desires. His personality has been molded by the culture over three decades, and what little self-confidence he may have left will be flattened when she starts banging the first man to tap into her wild side. And he will be extremely damaged goods that any woman he meets in the future will sense immediately.

The time for a male to read books about what females really want is about middle-school, age 11-12. Grandfathers, fathers, uncles should be educating their young male offspring about the true nature of male and female animals.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

OP, I don't see where you say you've actually tried to connect with your hb on a deeper level. So have you?

Maybe he would like more of a connection too. If you have tried what was his response? 
If not why not try having a deeper discussion with him? I couldn't connect with my ex on a deeper level either, but I tried having conversations with him and with anything beyond sports and the weather he'd change the subject or ignore me. One time I brought up a news story I'd seen and he cut me off and proceeded to go on about the sports stats he'd seen that day. I got the message loud and clear that only things that mattered to him were allowed to be discussed.

At least attempt to have the connection you want with your hb. It is possible that you guys just aren't a good match, but you're risking a lot for the crap that's out there. You might learn to appreciate him in ways you currently don't.

Also, as others have said, little kids make everyone crazy. I never even liked kids before I had mine, and my two boys ended up being the lights of my life. They are now 17 and 20 and we're thick as thieves...there is absolutely NOTHING that I could've done that would come anywhere near the joy they've brought to my life.

Get some help for your PPD, then give your hb a fair chance. Try to find some fun things to do and include him.

Remember this: people who are bored are often boring.


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## 347055 (Nov 7, 2020)

lifeistooshort said:


> OP, I don't see where you say you've actually tried to connect with your hb on a deeper level. So have you?


She had four years to tell her husband that she just married him to check off the boxes, and that he isn't hitting the right spots with her. She had six years before that to tell him the same, that she wanted to have time with a bunch of different men to be sure she didn't miss anything. Would have been just breaking up with a BF at that point, no harm done. But she had to marry, continue the charade for 4 more years and bring an innocent child into the world to experience the certain aftermath.

If she had any interest in "connecting" with her husband, she has had a decade to work the problem but did nothing.

If she had any integrity, she would have told him then that she wanted a divorce ( not a child ). Seems to me she has been primed to cheat at first opportunity and has been thinking about it for years. There are plenty of men who will easily pick up on where she is mentally and get her to carry through physically. Am surprised it hasn't happened already (maybe it has ).

It's too bad her husband is clueless about where things are, if he knew how inevitable the ending is he would file for divorce today so he and his child can move on with what is left of their lives.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I just dont go along with this nice guy/bad guy/alpha/beta guy stuff.
Most of the longest and happiest marriages I know are between 2 really decent people. Good spouses, good parents and decent members of society. The OP says he is a wonderful husband, countless women would give their left arms to have a good man like him. Why does he need to change who he is? He isnt the problem. Why does he need to read books to try and make himself into a man he isnt? Why does he need to try and force himself to be a different man when is is already a lovely guy? Honestly if the OP doesn't want him, he will very soon be snapped up believe me. I feel so sorry for him and their child. Discontentment is a terrible thing.
Some people here seem to think they they know what all or most women want, they are so wrong. Its a small number of women who really want a 'bad boy' type of man, and those who do will usually have their lives completely messed up because of it.
I just hope that the OP will have the decency to enable this man to meet a woman who loves and respects him. Who is grateful to have such a lovely husband and father to her children.
As for the child, people will sometimes never get over rejection by their mothers.
Its just so so sad.

OP you can choose to stop thinking about what you think you are missing. Instead, every day think of one positive thing about your husband and be grataeful for that, maybe write it down. You can change your whole mind set if you really want to. I also feel that knowing Jesus Christ will change your life, He is the most awesome man who ever lived and will fill that emptiness. I make no appologies for saying that no matter what people here think, its true, and ultimately its He alone who can love us deeply, completely, unconditionally and forever.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

This has turned into a "bad boy alpha" thread. Go back and read the OP. She only says she wishes she had experienced other relationships before getting married (probably a normal contemplation) but mainly feels some connection is missing with her husband, and she never really wanted to have children. 

It DOESN'T say she wants to go out and get a bad boy, or have sex with a lot of men. I think the responses have gotten carried away about nothing she has actually said.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> I just dont go along with this nice guy/bad guy/alpha/beta guy stuff.
> Most of the longest and happiest marriages I know are between 2 really decent people. Good spouses, good parents and decent members of society. The OP says he is a wonderful husband, countless women would give their left arms to have a good man like him. Why does he need to change who he is? He isnt the problem. Why does he need to read books to try and make himself into a man he isnt? Why does he need to try and force himself to be a different man when is is already a lovely guy? Honestly if the OP doesn't want him, he will very soon be snapped up believe me. I feel so sorry for him and their child. Discontentment is a terrible thing.
> Some people here seem to think they they know what all or most women want, they are so wrong. Its a small number of women who really want a 'bad boy' type of man, and those who do will usually have their lives completely messed up because of it.
> I just hope that the OP will have the decency to enable this man to meet a woman who loves and respects him. Who is grateful to have such a lovely husband and father to her children.
> ...


Sometimes reading your religious preaching is a total turn off.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> Why does he need to change who he is? He isnt the problem.


Because not everything within relationships is by conscious design. Do you think that men are TAUGHT to believe that naked 20 year old women are more attractive than naked 90 year old women? Is that a matter of cultural programming, could we take some young boys and socialize them to find naked 90 year old women hot and be repulsed by naked 20 year old women?

Our desires are more hardwired than our behaviors. There are aspects of masculinity which appeal to women. Men, in the state of nature, used to be more selfish, dominant, violent, but in order for society to arise, these natural behaviors had to be channeled away and replaced with more gentle behaviors. No more duels for honor, no more blood vendettas, no more taking women, no more assaulting women, and children, you get the idea. Just because the behavior of men has been changed doesn't mean that women desire men who behave that way.



> Why does he need to read books to try and make himself into a man he isnt?


What exactly is the test for a "man being himself?" I'll give you an infidelity example. Lots of men, upon learning about their wives' affairs, want to go and beat the living crap out of the other man who took "his woman" from him. But then nothing ever happens. Which is the best evidence for the man being himself? His desire or his learned behavior? 

There are loads of things men, and women too, do that is arising from learned behavior, socialization, and at odds with their desires and impulses. Which is the true self?

Watch what is going on here, the behavior of this men is physical, not intellectual, not learned behavior.


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## Max.HeadRoom (Jun 28, 2014)

Thoughts are just that, thoughts! It is action that gives meaning. Anxiety, mid-life crisis and PTSD fills our minds with thoughts and most are not helpful. Just because I think it does not make it so.

I’m hoping that OP can act to bridge the gap that she thinks is there, by bringing her husband into this conversation. And helping him meet these needs.


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## Raindrops17 (Dec 29, 2018)

Thank you again for your recommendations. As I said in my recent post, I’m coming to the realization that much of the issues I find fault in my relationship are in fact issues that lie within myself. I have a lot of things I personally need to sort out and resolve before deciding what to do with my marriage. 

I agree, my husband has done nothing wrong here and there is no reason for him to change who he is. He is a wonderful husband and father and I truly want nothing but the best for him. 

I take full responsibility for this situation. My husband did nothing to bring on how I feel as he has done everything right and is always present. Again, this is why I feel therapy is needed for me to figure out why I feel this way. 

I don’t want a “bad boy” or have any desire to engage in all these sexual experiences as I feel some have hinted at. Like I said before, sex has nothing to do with this. 

And for the record, I don’t resent my child. I love her dearly and want nothing but the best for her. I had reservations on having children before as said previously, but I knowingly went through the motions to get pregnant. As much as I don’t think having children was the best decision for me right now, my daughter is here, I take full responsibility for that and she is my world!

My plan moving ahead is to seek out therapy to help me better figure out my personal struggles and why I have reservations in my marriage. There is a good chance that once I get my PPD treated, I will be more clear headed and be in a better place to determine what to do moving forward.

Thank you again for your time and insight.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

Raindrops17 said:


> Thank you again for your recommendations. As I said in my recent post, I’m coming to the realization that much of the issues I find fault in my relationship are in fact issues that lie within myself. I have a lot of things I personally need to sort out and resolve before deciding what to do with my marriage.


Our spouses cannot be all things to us, but where they fall short they should be, automatically, given the right of first refusal. A need which isn't being met should be brought to the attention of the spouse before any outside actor is brought into the picture.



> I agree, my husband has done nothing wrong here and there is no reason for him to change who he is. He is a wonderful husband and father and I truly want nothing but the best for him.


But who is he? Is he the man who behaves a certain way or is he the man who represses some of his impulses because they run counter to his socialization? This question I ask of you is the thesis which informs the following two books - "No More Mr. Nice Guy" and "Married Man Sex Life Primer." These books don't instruct men to become FAKES, they counsel men to throw off some of the cloak of FAULTY socialization practice.

Let me turn this around. Who is the real you? Is the real you the face that you present to your husband or is the real you the person struggling with these questions? Don't be so sure that you're seeing the full real person of your husband just because you are witness to his behavior and speech.



> I don’t want a “bad boy” or have any desire to engage in all these sexual experiences as I feel some have hinted at. Like I said before, sex has nothing to do with this.


We're all anonymous here, so face-saving isn't really required. In your OP you wrote about your deep regrets from not being involved with other men prior to your husband. If you are in a marriage that has good communication, good companionship, shared values, shared interests, etc. women don't feel that they've missed out on life by NOT experiencing living with a manipulative bastard, missed out by not living with an alcoholic wife-beater, missed out by not living with an emotionally cold man, etc. What women feel they missed out on is hot monkey sex with hot guys who give them tingles. We all know what you meant, there is no need to walk it back.

Now, if you were in a dysfunctional marriage, it would be plausible to assume that you wanting to experience other relationships could be motivated by wondering what it would be like to NOT live with a cold distant man and instead live, and love, a man who shared his thoughts and feelings with you. That would make sense, but that's not your situation as you described it.



> My plan moving ahead is to seek out therapy to help me better figure out my personal struggles and why I have reservations in my marriage. There is a good chance that once I get my PPD treated, I will be more clear headed and be in a better place to determine what to do moving forward.
> 
> Thank you again for your time and insight.


This is a good plan of action, but it absolutely requires that you be honest with yourself, even if that honesty requires you to be a women who really wants that hot monkey sex with new men, an unflattering self-portrait to be sure, but IF that is what is going on, then own it. Now comes the point of what to do about it. I go back to my first post, can you control your desires and impulses and lead a life of design rather than falling to your impulses?

The central thrust of your OP was something was missing in your married life and you regretted not having experiences with other men. I doubt that this has changed, I suspect that you didn't like the responses that admission garnered and you didn't like how you looked to yourself. Your depression is likely exacerbating your discontent, you're searching for something to give you a sense of fulfillment and meaning, and some mystical "other relationships" seems like the best bet to make. Recognize though that you're removing agency from yourself, putting responsibility for your fulfillment on these future other men. Your sense of fulfillment will have to come from within yourself. Addressing your depression is the first step. Next is figuring out this "other men" issue - give your husband those two books, they, in fact, never actually hurt people's marriages, so it's a no-lose gesture. Your husband may actually be enough of the "other men" you want if he could just shuck off some of the bad cultural programming he's been subjected to.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Lance Mannion said:


> Our spouses cannot be all things to us, but where they fall short they should be, automatically, given the right of first refusal. A need which isn't being met should be brought to the attention of the spouse before any outside actor is brought into the picture.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Spare us the long-winded judgmental junk.

Yes, judgmental.

It's human nature to wonder what having a relationship with someone else would (have been) like, if you have only been in a serious relationship with one person your entire life. No need to over inflate it and embellish it like you have, with your blowhard theories.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

Livvie said:


> Spare us the long-winded judgmental junk.
> 
> Yes, judgmental.
> 
> It's human nature to wonder what having a relationship with someone else would (have been) like, if you have only been in a serious relationship with one person your entire life. No need to over inflate it and embellish it like you have, with your blowhard theories.


You're making this sound like "I wonder what it would be like to drive the Ford truck instead of this Chevy truck I bought" or "I wonder how my life would be different if I attended Yale instead of Harvard."

What the OP was writing about was throwing away her marriage because of her curiosity about other men. I'm not going to take my nice Chevy truck and throw it to the junk yard so that I can go buy a new Ford truck nor am I going to erase my Harvard education off of my resume and then enroll at Yale so that I can put that degree on my resume.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Lance Mannion said:


> You're making this sound like "I wonder what it would be like to drive the Ford truck instead of this Chevy truck I bought" or "I wonder how my life would be different if I attended Yale instead of Harvard."
> 
> What the OP was writing about was throwing away her marriage because of her curiosity about other men. I'm not going to take my nice Chevy truck and throw it to the junk yard so that I can go buy a new Ford truck nor am I going to erase my Harvard education off of my resume and then enroll at Yale so that I can put that degree on my resume.


No. She was thinking about many factors.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Some things that stand out, you keeping saying ‘once I sort out my ppd’ or ‘I will see/need to see a counsellor’, have you taken steps to make this happen? You don’t mention any paralysing symptoms and again I don’t hear any hopelessness or sense of desperation in anything you say.

You’re not telling us anything new which may mean you’re not really going to actively approach any solution or make any real change. You do keep saying the same thing in different ways. We understand that your husband is great, child is great, it’s within you etc, but what happens next?

My concern (and I know many women who also started out like this, I’ve known them for decades), is that you might go with the flow, have a couple more kids etc. But the danger is, later your story might change. You will say your husband DID do something wrong, he was the problem, I had a child for him, I had another kid because my daughter wanted a sibling... and on and on it goes.

I also notice a repetition of ‘I want the best for him’ and ‘I want the best for her’ but I think you want the best for YOU! (And that’s ok actually!!! But do something about it)

This was a line thrown to many of us when we were young girls and dating and the guys were secretly in love with someone else and wanted to make out like they were really great people so the breakup really wasn’t their fault. It took away any responsibility for the hurt they caused. It sounds like in a way you’ve already mentally left them, you talk about tearing the family apart of you do, but again I hear no concern or worries about finances, where you’ll live, custody etc... so I’m very concerned that you’re not telling us something, or have some idea of what you do actually want... but that you may actually hang around and keep going with the flow while you live this other life on the side. I could he totally wrong so pls tell me if I’m completely in 

Is there anything else new you can tell us, or anything else about this other than how wonderful your husband and daughter are and how it’s within you?

Do you have any close friends and family?? Are you close with co-workers? Any hobbies? What is your home life like, what’s ‘A-day-in-the-life’ for you three? You’re not speaking to a counsellor or doctor, you’re not telling your husband, is there anyone that knows you well that knows about these feelings?

There’s an element of secrecy and dishonesty if you’re only posting about this problem online. (I apologise in advance if I’ve got this part wrong and made assumptions, I hope you’ve got good people in your life that you talk to, I hope you’re not alone and isolated).


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Livvie said:


> Sometimes reading your religious preaching is a total turn off.


Very occasionally I feel strongly that God wants me to say something to a poster that may well help them and their marriage. I dont do it to win a popularity contest.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Livvie said:


> Spare us the long-winded judgmental junk.
> 
> Yes, judgmental.
> 
> It's human nature to wonder what having a relationship with someone else would (have been) like, if you have only been in a serious relationship with one person your entire life. No need to over inflate it and embellish it like you have, with your blowhard theories.


I know many really happy marriages where they were each others one and only, I can think of at least a dozen off hand, and they dont have this yearning to have had a relationship with anyone else. Some may have it but certainly many dont. Some who had multiple partners wish they had met their spouse earlier. We are all different.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Lance Mannion said:


> Because not everything within relationships is by conscious design. Do you think that men are TAUGHT to believe that naked 20 year old women are more attractive than naked 90 year old women? Is that a matter of cultural programming, could we take some young boys and socialize them to find naked 90 year old women hot and be repulsed by naked 20 year old women?
> 
> Our desires are more hardwired than our behaviors. There are aspects of masculinity which appeal to women. Men, in the state of nature, used to be more selfish, dominant, violent, but in order for society to arise, these natural behaviors had to be channeled away and replaced with more gentle behaviors. No more duels for honor, no more blood vendettas, no more taking women, no more assaulting women, and children, you get the idea. Just because the behavior of men has been changed doesn't mean that women desire men who behave that way.
> 
> ...


lance, again you are making so many assumptions about men and also that all women do this or all women want that. We are all attracted to different types of men and we dont all want what you describe. Men are bought up in all sorts of different ways in many cultures and countries. 
In many ways its important that we dont all go along with base desires or impulses if they are that bad, thats why we have laws so people dont hurt others and take what they want regardless of what effect it has. Thank goodness we have laws against rape, child abuse, murder, attacks, robbery and so on.


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## manowar (Oct 3, 2020)

Livvie said:


> Sometimes reading your religious preaching is a total turn off.


 No it isnt. You have a good heart and it shows in your posts. even though your glasses are a bit rose colored especially when it comes to the the world as it is not how we think it ought to be. 



Lance Mannion said:


> Our desires are more hardwired than our behaviors. *There are aspects of masculinity which appeal to women. *


there is simply no denying the above. Nice Guy is not on top of that list of attraction for women. multiple studies have proven this. Its not even debatable.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

manowar said:


> No it isnt. You have a good heart and it shows in your posts. even though your glasses are a bit rose colored especially when it comes to the the world as it is not how we think it ought to be.
> 
> 
> 
> there is simply no denying the above. Nice Guy is not on top of that list of attraction for women. multiple studies have proven this. Its not even debatable.


Speak for yourself, NOT FOR ME please. It IS a turn off to me when the religious preaching starts. This isn't a religious based relationship forum. Or else I'd not be here. Sure, people give their own advice as they are free to do just as I'm free to be absolutely turned off by the religious advice.


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## manowar (Oct 3, 2020)

Max.HeadRoom said:


> Thoughts are just that, thoughts! It is action that gives meaning.


"reality consists of nothing other than minds and ideas. _esse est percip_i"  -- George Berekley


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Livvie said:


> Sometimes reading your religious preaching is a total turn off.


There is an ignore function. 

But please folks, do keep religious debates to the Religious forum.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

manowar said:


> No it isnt. You have a good heart and it shows in your posts. even though your glasses are a bit rose colored especially when it comes to the the world as it is not how we think it ought to be.
> 
> 
> 
> there is simply no denying the above. Nice Guy is not on top of that list of attraction for women. multiple studies have proven this. Its not even debatable.


I think its the hope that I have rather that seeing things through rose coloured glasses. I have experienced many awful and traumatic things in life, but if you have real hope you will get through and come out the other side. If you have hope for the future it makes a real difference to life right now.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> There is an ignore function.
> 
> But please folks, do keep religious debates to the Religious forum.


Thanks Matt, I didnt debate but made one comment to the OP I felt would really help her. It was just one of many posts offering her advise.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Livvie said:


> Speak for yourself, NOT FOR ME please. It IS a turn off to me when the religious preaching starts. This isn't a religious based relationship forum. Or else I'd not be here. Sure, people give their own advice as they are free to do just as I'm free to be absolutely turned off by the religious advice.


Livvie, I read many posts here that give advise that is really unhelpful, but thats what happens here, we all give advise we think will help. To be honest just block me, then you wont need to read any 'religious preaching' (which it actually isnt). I have to write what I know will help even if the OP takes no notice.


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## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

Livvie said:


> This has turned into a "bad boy alpha" thread. Go back and read the OP. She only says she wishes she had experienced other relationships before getting married (probably a normal contemplation) but mainly feels some connection is missing with her husband, and she never really wanted to have children.
> 
> It DOESN'T say she wants to go out and get a bad boy, or have sex with a lot of men. I think the responses have gotten carried away about nothing she has actually said.


you have to learn how to read between the lines.

i did not date enough, i did not try out sex with enough, i think sex could
be so much better with someone else, i married too below my number,
i bet i could of married my equal number or a number or two better.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> Livvie, I read many posts here that give advise that is really unhelpful, but thats what happens here, we all give advise we think will help. To be honest just block me, then you wont need to read any 'religious preaching' (which it actually isnt). I have to write what I know will help even if the OP takes no notice.


It’s inappropriate. You have no idea whether the posters you’re preaching to (and, yes, it is) are Christian or not.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

oldtruck said:


> you have to learn how to read between the lines.
> 
> i did not date enough, i did not try out sex with enough, i think sex could
> be so much better with someone else, i married too below my number,
> i bet i could of married my equal number or a number or two better.


Reading between the lines can mean making completely false judgments about what someone is saying. How about reading the actual lines? 🤔


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## Mezman (Dec 12, 2020)

Lance Mannion said:


> Our spouses cannot be all things to us, but where they fall short they should be, automatically, given the right of first refusal. A need which isn't being met should be brought to the attention of the spouse before any outside actor is brought into the picture.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The advice here in the last paragraph is gold, please consider it. First order of business is get to a counsellor or therapist. If you are depressed I know how hard that first step can be, but it is the first step on the road to unpacking all thoughts and emotions that are contributing to your current situation.

Most importantly you will not be weighed and judged as you are being here. Being shamed for your feelings will not change them, take the opportunity to explore why you feel like you are missing out. 

I have a theory but it is probably not correct, just me projecting as many of the other posters are. I wish you well, you are not a bad person, but try to minimise the potential for hurting others by being proactive and trying to understand the why of how you feel before you act.

Good luck


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Openminded said:


> It’s inappropriate. You have no idea whether the posters you’re preaching to (and, yes, it is) are Christian or not.


No I dont know but I do what I feel God wants me to do in that situation and I have learnt to trust Him in that. She is free to ignore whatever I say or anyone says here. No its not preaching any more than anyone else has who has given their opinion/thoughts/ideas/guidance to the op has, its making a suggestion that I know will help.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> No I dont know but I do what I feel God wants me to do in that situation and I have learnt to trust Him in that. She is free to ignore whatever I say or anyone says here. No its not preaching any more than anyone else has who has given their opinion/thoughts/ideas/guidance to the op has, its making a suggestion that I know will help.


BS. It’s inappropriate.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

Openminded said:


> It’s inappropriate. You have no idea whether the posters you’re preaching to (and, yes, it is) are Christian or not.


There's nothing inappropriate about it, it's her world view, it informs her life, it's no different than a betrayed spouse giving advice based on a world view informed by infidelity.

Religion is not a special category of thought, it is a SUBSET of a broader category, ideology.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Lance Mannion said:


> There's nothing inappropriate about it, it's her world view, it informs her life, it's no different than a betrayed spouse giving advice based on a world view informed by infidelity.
> 
> Religion is not a special category of thought, it is a SUBSET of a broader category, ideology.


If a poster asked for an opinion regarding about religion, or some related aspect, then it wouldn’t be inappropriate. But to tell someone they should rely on her version of God for whatever issue they may have when religion hasn’t even been mentioned is definitely inappropriate.

(Sorry for the t/j, OP.)


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

Openminded said:


> If a poster asked for an opinion regarding about religion, or some related aspect, then it wouldn’t be inappropriate. But to tell someone they should rely on her version of God for whatever issue they may have when religion hasn’t even been mentioned is definitely inappropriate.
> 
> (Sorry for the t/j, OP.)


As I wrote earlier, religion is merely a subset of a broader category, so no, religion should not be cut-off as a topic because you have some sensitivity to it. Let me demonstrate by using her actual quote.



> You can change your whole mind set if you really want to.* I also feel that knowing Jesus Christ will change your life,* He is the most awesome man who ever lived and *will fill that emptiness*.


You can change your whole mind set if you really want to. I also feel that *going to therapy* will change your life, It is a life-affirming process and will fill that emptiness.

You can change your whole mind set if you really want to. I also feel *that reading "No More Mr. Nice Guy*" will change your life, It is an awesome book and will fill that emptiness.

You can change your whole mind set if you really want to. I also feel that *going to the gym* will change your life, It will burn up your stress hormones and empty your mind and will fill that emptiness.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Lance Mannion said:


> As I wrote earlier, religion is merely a subset of a broader category, so no, religion should not be cut-off as a topic because you have some sensitivity to it. Let me demonstrate by using her actual quote.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So.. if someone were to give advice based on pagan or Wiccan beliefs, that would be okay, too?


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

Livvie said:


> So.. if someone were to give advice based on pagan or Wiccan beliefs, that would be okay, too?


Absolutely. 

It's up to the OP to decide for herself what advice resonates as useful for herself. I'm not a religious person, I'm an Atheist, but that doesn't blind me to the fact that religion does work to fill many people with a world view, a sense of purpose, a sense of identity. Most anti-religious bias comes from people with competing religions - liberalism is wanting to stamp out Christianity because it doesn't want to share the religious landscape with an established competitor. Once again, religion is merely a subset of a larger category, ideology, so it's fair play to share one's meaningful views with those seeking advice. For Diana, her religion means something to her, and for Diana, she believes that others may get the exact same sense of fulfillment as she gets. So here comes the OP, writes about a sense of not being fulfilled, hey, religion could well be the answer, it's up to the OP to accept or reject and simply move on, just like she's doing with the "leaving her husband to get more variety in sex" advice.

Diana was ON-topic, she offered advice to address a specific issue the OP raised. For Diana, religion was a mechanism to fill a void within a person's life. Looks pretty damn straightforward to me, but then again I'm not walking around with a massive anti-Christian chip on my shoulder.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

Raindrops17 said:


> Thank you again for your recommendations. As I said in my recent post, I’m coming to the realization that much of the issues I find fault in my relationship are in fact issues that lie within myself. I have a lot of things I personally need to sort out and resolve before deciding what to do with my marriage.
> 
> I agree, my husband has done nothing wrong here and there is no reason for him to change who he is. He is a wonderful husband and father and I truly want nothing but the best for him.
> 
> ...


OP, ignore the quibbling and sniping going on among the posters.

You are right that the problem is inside you. You have what many, if not most, people would trade their eye teeth for. You need to find out why you are unhappy. Because whatever situation you trade for, you will still be you, and if you don't resolve your inner issues, you will likely find yourself in the same situation.

Just a word of caution, however. It seems like for every good counselor, there are 10 bad ones. It is much easier, I think, for the counselor to cheer you on to leave your marriage and "find yourself". Unfortunately, as far as I can see, most counselors tend to operate on their own pet theories rather than pursue evidence-based therapy grounded in true research and blinded placebo-controlled trials. (Maybe those types of trials aren't practical for counseling, but I really haven't seen any true research-guided therapy on any level.) Just be very, very careful in the selection of your counselor.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

The disagreement about children — whether or not to have them or how many to have — is sometimes enough to end marriages. Would you feel as unhappy if that were not an issue? Do you feel that postpartum depression is driving a lot of this?


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