# America is working nation, maybe a little too much?



## Moovers (Dec 24, 2013)

I just wanted to rant about the working culture and tradition of work in the USA. My H is always working, full time and then some (50+ hours a week) and not only it is perfectly legal to work someone like that, his employer asks that from him. 

No matter how much money we have in our savings he always seems to want more to feel secure. No matter that we own our house and cars and have no debts. 

I am so jealous of places like France where my friends work 35 hours a week (official full time) makes just as much money and accomplishes just as much. Not even going to talk about national health insurance and maternity supports. 

The official vacation time in USA is 12 days (plus holidays) where in France it is 5 to 7 weeks, in U.K. it is a month plus bank holidays makes it 5 weeks. 

Although there are a lot of good things about living in USA there are some disadvantages too, the one that bugs me the most is the obsession of work and material values. 

First question - what do you do for living, not for example - what are your hobbies? 

End of rant

I don't want this rant to be all negative, I will mention few things I miss about America when I go back to EU to visit my family:

Drinking water free of charge in restaurants
Space, lots of space
Good water pressure in shower 
Good weather 
Great roads and good drivers
Friendly and polite people in the streets
Very few smokers

etc etc


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

I'm living proof that you can work French hours in the USA and have a long and successful career. The key is to find a niche that nobody understands, be very good at what you do, and don't waste time at work. 

The issues with excess work in the USA are many and people simply don't see them as such.


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## oldgeezer (Sep 8, 2012)

We have a historical culture of respecting work. And it's why in the past we've beaten the socks off every other economy - because WE WORK and we work HARD AND LONG. 

It's something to be proud of. 

Having said all that, there is virtue in family time and relationship time, etc. One cannot be healthy and ignore those things.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

oldgeezer said:


> We have a historical culture of respecting work. And it's why in the past we've beaten the socks off every other economy - because WE WORK and we work HARD AND LONG.
> 
> It's something to be proud of.
> 
> Having said all that, there is virtue in family time and relationship time, etc. One cannot be healthy and ignore those things.


I would say that is very true of the older generation ... and even though I'm not that old, my generation has more in common with them than the new generations entering the workforce.

Every year I see our young new college grad employees or interns come in and they are SMART. Real smart. What they don't do is work any more than they have to and yet they are still are capable of exceptional work. There also appears to be a sense of entitlement that was not as common in my generation. They work differently. My generation is very much the put the nose to the grindstone mentality. These guys are very accustomed to networking and working in teams, more than my generation. The times are changing.

When I started working, I felt the need to earn the respect of the people around me. I worked harder and longer than anybody else ... intentionally. Today, if there is a person in their 20's in the office after 5pm, I am surprised. Working long hours is so ingrained in me, I feel guilty if I'm out the door before 6pm. 

Today a lot of the pressure to work more hours comes from companies in general trying to do more with less. The people who I see in the office after hours are those with the most responsibility. In a country where in most places you can lose your job instantly without reason, the more responsibility you have, the safer your job is. There is job security in making yourself as valuable as you can and that often means taking on as much responsibility as you can.

OP made a comment about materialism. I think that is true for a lot of people but I can't identify with that. I don't work long hours so that I earn more money. Certainly my dedication to the job has meant more money and benefits over the years but that is just a side benefit and not my motivation. If it was my motivation, I would have entered a career where the goal of the job is to make money.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

oldgeezer said:


> We have a historical culture of respecting work. And it's why in the past we've beaten the socks off every other economy - because WE WORK and we work HARD AND LONG.
> 
> 
> 
> It's something to be proud of.



I have no problem working hard (ie more than my euro spec 35 hours a week) As long as they compensate me for the extra time I can work 135 hours a week. 

At the same time, I've worked in Europe as well at client sites (Germany mostly) and so on and was blown away. No chit chat, no personal calls, no Facebook during work hours from the smartphone, no wasted time. At my place of work plenty of all of that... Like everybody else's place of work...


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Moovers Americans are pretty hard workers, but we don't hold a candle to the Japanese and Asians. 6 days a week 10 hours or more a day is the norm over there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

Remind me of the old song, "what do you get when you work your fingers to the bone? You get bony fingers, bony fingers..."


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

I live in Sweden. People do not put in the same hours as in the US. Even people who work for US corporations question what Americans are doing to themselves. One buddy who works for Microsoft was pressured to join a team in Seattle. He only had to look at the disappearance of annual vacation time – Sweden is 6 weeks and he said no way.

You can earn more money but he earns more. The Swedish krona is very strong versus the dollar.

America is economically dynamic. It's easier to start business. But Americans who work too many hours don't necessarily work efficiently. Every additional hour you squeeze out of someone after a 7-hour day is an uncertain commodity. The human mind loses its efficiency.


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## tryingtobebetter (Aug 6, 2012)

I have just been listening to a radio programme discussing Azimov's 1964 predictions for 2014. One of them was how bored people would be because there would be so little work to do as a result of automation.

What went wrong?

I confess I think a lot of what people do nowadays is really 'makework' rather than real work. Look at the bankers on Wall Street. I reckon a lot of what they do is not socially useful, just a way of transferring money from their clients' accounts into their own.

Rant over.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Moovers said:


> I just wanted to rant about the working culture and tradition of work in the USA. My H is always working, full time and then some (50+ hours a week) and not only it is perfectly legal to work someone like that, his employer asks that from him.
> 
> No matter how much money we have in our savings he always seems to want more to feel secure. No matter that we own our house and cars and have no debts.
> 
> ...


In our country the official full time working hours are 40 hrs / week. Anything above that you get paid double time. If you work on Sunday you get paid tripple time.

You are entitled to 14 days off excluding national holidays and weekends.

We have National Insurance so that you ar guaranteed a pension at age 65 once you are a citizen.

Free universal health care.

Free universal education from nursery to Phd.

Free laptops for all elementary school kids.

Free school textbooks for elementary school kids.

Free breakfast , lunches provided for all elementary schools kids, both private and public.

Free Pharmaceuticals for any chronic disease, once you are a citizen.

If you work for the state eg; army ,police , national security , fire officer, teacher , administrator , civil servant , you are entitled to highly subsidized housing.

If you live in the Oil & Gas belt you entitled free electricity and free gas.

Gasoline & diesel fuel prices are fixed . A liter of gas is less than US $1.00 [ Somewhere around $0.50 . I think.]

One of the cheapest electricity rates in the Western Hemisphere.US $0.04 /KWh.

There are many more benefits of either doing business or being a citizen here , but there are also negatives. For example, land anywhere is premium and extremely expensive.
What makes most of these benefits possible is tremendous amounts of oil and gas reserves and a very small population.
A very democratic political system alongside a socialist economic system. Very highly unionized workforce both private and state.
Are people happy?
Generally ,yes they are.

But there are negatives.

What do I do for a living?
I own a medium sized business.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

john117 said:


> I'm living proof that you can work French hours in the USA and have a long and successful career. The key is to find a niche that nobody understands, be very good at what you do, and don't waste time at work.
> 
> The issues with excess work in the USA are many and people simply don't see them as such.



Yes! This is very true. My job is a niche job that not many people do, and I don't work crazy hours all the time; sometimes more work is necessary but the balance is good. My employer can't work us to death because we're in high demand, so we'll quit and go somewhere else. I get 2-3 weeks of vacation and I LOVE my job! It always makes me think and pays really well, I live on far less than I make because I was raised by blue collar people that didn't have a lot so material stuff doesn't much matter to me. When my friends were partying and acting like idiots I was in school, studying hard, and working any low paying job I could get, and I didn't knock out kids until I had a degree and was married.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> In our country the official full time working hours are 40 hrs / week. Anything above that you get paid double time. If you work on Sunday you get paid tripple time.
> 
> You are entitled to 14 days off excluding national holidays and weekends.
> 
> ...


This sounds great, but what will happen if petro based energy production suddenly becomes obsolete? The fusion problem gets solved, or someone comes up with a nifty trick to make solar much more cost effective, or something else nobody's thought of yet. What happens to that way of life if the petro dollars are not coming in any more?


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

My sister owns a French dairy farm. She works about a million hours a week.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Economies adapt as long as they do not depend on one source of revenue. Germany has much of what the poster listed except higher energy costs but has an incredible economy.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Nucking Futs said:


> This sounds great, but what will happen if petro based energy production suddenly becomes obsolete?



Lol,

That my friend , would never happen.
The very garment on your back, the fibre optics that makes high speed internet possible ,the fertilizer used to grow food,in short, everything that makes life today so different and affordable than one hundred years ago,
Is based on hydrocarbon technology.

That is why the US and others maintains interest in the Middle East. We cannot have a situation where the stability of the world's economy is in the hands of a few religious fanatics.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> Lol,
> 
> That my friend , would never happen.
> The very garment on your back, the fibre optics that makes high speed internet possible ,the fertilizer used to grow food,in short, everything that makes life today so different and affordable than one hundred years ago,
> ...


Ok, let me approach this from a different angle. How would a country with no petro reserves at all pull something like this off? How about Liberia? 80% of the population live below the international poverty line, chief exports are rubber, iron ore and timber, nothing to bring in petro level income. Per capita GDP is $297, only two countries in the world lower. What route could Liberia take to match the prosperity in your country?


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

UK public sector - 37.5 hours a week, 30 days holiday a year (plus 8bank holidays)

Long term sick? Six months off full pay, still accrue annual leave

Get moved into a lower band job? Pay protection for five years

Want to sack someone useless? Very VERY difficult

That's what happens when you work in a heavily unionised industry


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Nucking Futs said:


> Ok, let me approach this from a different angle. How would a country with no petro reserves at all pull something like this off? How about Liberia? 80% of the population live below the international poverty line, chief exports are rubber, iron ore and timber, nothing to bring in petro level income. Per capita GDP is $297, only two countries in the world lower. *What route could Liberia take to match the prosperity in your country?*


Simple.

Cut out the corruption.
Liberia is also very rich in oil and diamonds. Need I say more?
Problem is political stability and the political will to govern in the interest of the people.
Ex dictator, Charles Taylor plundered Liberia and murdered thousands of its citizens. His regime's modus operandi was hacking their political opponents to death with machetes. Both men and women. Pat Robertson was a close friend of Charles Taylor and also invested heavely in Liberia's diamond industry.
Lol, no wonder he defended him. Than goodnes those guys in th Hague put an end to his [ Charles Taylor] madness, may his soul be forever tormented by the hounds of hell, but I digress.

Guyana is potentially the wealthiest country in the Caribbean basin. Diamonds , Gold, Bauxite ,Iron Ore, Oil & Gas reserves , Virgin forests with huge timber reserves, over a million acres in arable very fertile land watered by numerous rivers.
Guyana has two very large rivers, the Demerara and the Esiquibo.If a hydroelectric dam is built on any one of those two rivers , it would generate enough power to light up the entire Caribbean right up to the Florida keys. Instead, they purchase petroleum from us and Venezuela to run their lone power plant.
Our country, Trinidad could fit into Guyana many times over and our population is three times theirs , yet we own their bauxite , own much of their local agricultural industry, and Guyana owes our government billions in debt. We underwrite their national debt.

Guyana has a fresh water fishing industry that exports right up the Caribbean, and other parts of the world. Talipia is one of their exports.
Guyana's land mass is larger than England with a population of just half a million people.Tremendous natural resources, yet it is the poorest country after Haiti , in the Caribbean, because of corruption and civil [ racial] strife.
The politics in Guyana has been corrupt and unstable for decades.
It now it is a haven for drug smuggling.
Guyana is similar to some african states. Rich in resources, but also bogged down by corrupt regimes.

On a global scale, the countries with the least corruption in government are the wealthiest and have the highest standards of living.
The most important natural resource a country can have is not oil , energy or minerals. It is it's people and systems of governance.
China is living proof of that.


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## Quant (Jul 15, 2013)

I work 60 hours a week but I love the money and job so can't complain. Finance is highly competitive and its a given that you'll work long hours no matter where you are living.


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## Quant (Jul 15, 2013)

Satya said:


> I miss living in the UK for some of the reasons stated by the OP. I used to think my old colleagues were incredibly lazy.
> 
> I am expected to work a 40hr week at the absolute minimum. 40hrs is a bad or slow week (usually just prior to a major holiday, where clients may be away). The perk is that I am able to do the majority of my work from home. When not at home I am spending time at a client, sometimes a week at a time. Telecommuting has advantages for me but certainly has advantages for my employer.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't know what to do if I wasn't working, I base a large part of my identity on my career. So to me my job is a important part of my life that gives me external validation.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

That's what you need to change. If I could paint houses or bag groceries making what I make in science I would gladly switch.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Dollystanford said:


> UK public sector - 37.5 hours a week, 30 days holiday a year (plus 8bank holidays)
> 
> Long term sick? Six months off full pay, still accrue annual leave
> 
> ...


US Government is more like that than the private sector.

Working with someone useless who can't be fired is bad for morale. Except for pride, why work harder if it doesn't get you any further than a person who hardly works at all?; where promotions are sometimes based on tenure or meeting some quota for diversity and not on individual performance. Something very wrong with that picture.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> Lol,
> 
> That my friend , would never happen.
> The very garment on your back, the fibre optics that makes high speed internet possible ,the fertilizer used to grow food,in short, everything that makes life today so different and affordable than one hundred years ago,
> ...


That is exactly right ... and unfortunately it is why we don't invest a lot in the stability of central and south africa despite the significant human suffering.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Quant said:


> I wouldn't know what to do if I wasn't working, I base a large part of my identity on my career. So to me my job is a important part of my life that gives me external validation.


I remember back when I first started my career. We had a retirement party for a guy who worked in our building. He was being forced to retire because of his age. He went home that evening and died in his sleep. Couldn't help but wonder if it was more than coincidence. Sort of like a seemingly healthy person suddenly deteriorating and dying soon after the death of their SO.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

I agree it is a nasty American habit to ask someone what they do for work. Especially since there are so many Americans who just do whatever is available. It's really an awkward question to ask someone.

OTOH, it's also awkward when it's some eclectic niche, and the conversation just

ends.

I go on vacation (several times a year) and just empty my mind and wander. I leave my work behind, vacation is for enjoying the person you were as a kid before anyone asked that silly question of what you were going to BE when you grew up. Like you are going to BE anything other than what you are. Ridiculous!


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> I agree it is a nasty American habit to ask someone what they do for work. Especially since there are so many Americans who just do whatever is available. It's really an awkward question to ask someone.
> 
> OTOH, it's also awkward when it's some eclectic niche, and the conversation just
> 
> ends.!


I get that a lot. I'm an electrical engineer, and I design stuff that nobody has a clue what it does. Even trying to explain it is lost on most folks.


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## Quant (Jul 15, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I remember back when I first started my career. We had a retirement party for a guy who worked in our building. He was being forced to retire because of his age. He went home that evening and died in his sleep. Couldn't help but wonder if it was more than coincidence. Sort of like a seemingly healthy person suddenly deteriorating and dying soon after the death of their SO.


I'll never stop working its one of the benefits of owning your own business.


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## Quant (Jul 15, 2013)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> I agree it is a nasty American habit to ask someone what they do for work. Especially since there are so many Americans who just do whatever is available. It's really an awkward question to ask someone.
> 
> OTOH, it's also awkward when it's some eclectic niche, and the conversation just
> 
> ...


:iagree: I work in a arcane section of finance that me and less then a hundred people know. I suppose its the way of the world,knowledge and intelligence isn't dispersed equally throughout the population.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Quant said:


> :iagree: I work in a arcane section of finance that me and less then a hundred people know. I suppose its the way of the world,knowledge and intelligence isn't dispersed equally throughout the population.


Whoa, you don't honestly think that having arcane niche work in a quantitative field is an indicator of higher intelligence and knowledge? That is furthermore of a limited quantity? :scratchhead: 

I see my work as more as an abnormal adaptation to a very bizarre world that works in an absurd kind of way. But it is a very stupid and basic approach, that requires very little intellectual thought. In fact, stripping away a lot of theories and knowledge and assumptions and going for stupid and obvious is usually how I make my living.  Noam would be proud of me.


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## Quant (Jul 15, 2013)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> Whoa, you don't honestly think that having arcane niche work in a quantitative field is an indicator of higher intelligence and knowledge? That is furthermore of a limited quantity? :scratchhead:
> 
> I see my work as more as an abnormal adaptation to a very bizarre world that works in an absurd kind of way. But it is a very stupid and basic approach, that requires very little intellectual thought. In fact, stripping away a lot of theories and knowledge and assumptions and going for stupid and obvious is usually how I make my living.  Noam would be proud of me.


I'm a mathematician so naturally I think I know how to speak the language of the gods.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> I agree it is a nasty American habit to ask someone what they do for work.


So what _do_ you do for a living?


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Nucking Futs said:


> So what _do_ you do for a living?


I think my own thoughts, and people ask me to apply that to their problem space....I go visit whatever it is, self-educated on how the problem space may have been framed, disassemble, question the assumptions, set it all free, let the dust settle, tell it like I see it, deliver the goods and they send money. Sometimes there is food involved. Hardly ever sex  (but not never.)

Words, numbers, people, nature, it's all the same. I could do my job with or without computers. The computers just make it more understandable (to other people). But in another era, I would still be doing what I'm doing, maybe more effectively because the pretense of quantification wouldn't be so necessary. Sometimes I'm called on to be a change agent...most people are afraid of change, because they see and experience permanency (a viewpoint which I think is a form of insanity.)

My job is to keep my mind in a state of healthy disengagement, and to prevent it from ever seeing anything as a stable entity...other than the fact that we are born and we will die, and in between somehow we keep what we perceive to be our solid mass of atoms in one piece while forgetting for long periods of time how mortal we are and that it could end at any given


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

And yes, I do make a living, or the living makes me, or whatever. There is money and there is food and a car and all that a person needs, maybe more than a person needs though I try to avoid that as it creates more impediments to working effectively.


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## Quant (Jul 15, 2013)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> I think my own thoughts, and people ask me to apply that to their problem space....I go visit whatever it is, self-educated on how the problem space may have been framed, disassemble, question the assumptions, set it all free, let the dust settle, tell it like I see it, deliver the goods and they send money. Sometimes there is food involved. Hardly ever sex  (but not never.)
> 
> Words, numbers, people, nature, it's all the same. I could do my job with or without computers. The computers just make it more understandable (to other people). But in another era, I would still be doing what I'm doing, maybe more effectively because the pretense of quantification wouldn't be so necessary. Sometimes I'm called on to be a change agent...most people are afraid of change, because they see and experience permanency (a viewpoint which I think is a form of insanity.)
> 
> My job is to keep my mind in a state of healthy disengagement, and to prevent it from ever seeing anything as a stable entity...other than the fact that we are born and we will die, and in between somehow we keep what we perceive to be our solid mass of atoms in one piece while forgetting for long periods of time how mortal we are and that it could end at any given


I'm in love.


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## Quant (Jul 15, 2013)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> And yes, I do make a living, or the living makes me, or whatever. There is money and there is food and a car and all that a person needs, maybe more than a person needs though I try to avoid that as it creates more impediments to working effectively.


This is were our love ends and disagreement begins, I'm quite the materialistic, capitalist pig dog.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Quant said:


> :iagree: I work in a arcane section of finance that me and less then a hundred people know. I suppose its the way of the world,knowledge and intelligence isn't dispersed equally throughout the population.


I'm kind of like you. I'm a project manager for a developer/construction company. I'm up at 4:30 am and at work by 5:30 am. And I often don't leave work until 6:00 pm. Because I'm single and don't date I actually spent about five hours today, on my day off, doing profit projections. Working for me takes my mind off the loneliness.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Quant said:


> I work 60 hours a week but I love the money and job so can't complain. Finance is highly competitive and its a given that you'll work long hours no matter where you are living.


60 hrs is long?


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## Quant (Jul 15, 2013)

Runs like Dog said:


> 60 hrs is long?


I'm counting office work, I should try to calculate home office work sometime I guess.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

My day job used to be billable so up it ran. Now I'm on a sort of think-tank-ish deal so it's pretty much all the time/whenever. But I'm also a landlord and that takes work and I have a little consultancy on the side to a small group who know me.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Runs like Dog said:


> 60 hrs is long?


Yes it is, by most people's standards. For me? It's about an average work week.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

larry.gray said:


> I get that a lot. I'm an electrical engineer, and I design stuff that nobody has a clue what it does. *Even trying to explain it is lost on most folks.*




Lol, I know how that ^^^goes.

Mechanical here.
(But I run a business in a completely different field .)
When they ask what field of engineering and I tel them mechanical they think 
" mechanic."
One time I was chatting with a guy who was a top level manager at a large plastic manufacturing company. Guy had his MBA and all the other qualifications in his field. 
I purposely swung the conversation into the plant engineering processes of his company , poly vinyls , injection moulding , High density polyethylene , LDPE's, thermoplastics and so forth.

Of course he couldn't relate .
He the asked me how I knew about that stuff.
Didn't bother to answer him.
Then I asked him about their type of automated system , feedback control or system control.
He started getting uncomfortable.
I switched the conversation again, and we started chatting about politics.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Quant said:


> This is were our love ends and disagreement begins, I'm quite the materialistic, capitalist pig dog.


It always ends like that!
You get the prize for speediest though.


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## Quant (Jul 15, 2013)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> It always ends like that!
> You get the prize for speediest though.


You can get back in my good graces if you work hard.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Caribbean Man said:


> One time I was chatting with a guy who was a top level manager at a large plastic manufacturing company. Guy had his MBA and all the other qualifications in his field.
> I purposely swung the conversation into the plant engineering processes of his company , poly vinyls , injection moulding , High density polyethylene , LDPE's, thermoplastics and so forth.
> 
> Of course he couldn't relate .
> ...


I know more than one MBA type admit that their biggest fear is the people under them realizing that they have no clue about the technical aspects of the companies they manage.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

larry.gray said:


> I know more than one MBA type admit that their biggest fear is the people under them realizing that they have no clue about the technical aspects of the companies they manage.


You should let them know that they can relax, their cluelessness is obvious.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Quant said:


> You can get back in my good graces if you work hard.


There is no need to work hard in order to make money. You just need a certain clarity of thought that can only come with unhinging from the equations and learning to move the constraint lines.

I'll be flow-charting tomorrow...going back through a project notebook to make everything look linear. Now that's work.  If it's too hard to explain, I find a way to erase it and put things in the footnotes. :smthumbup:


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Just make sure you sprinkle terminology and make everything look like a moonshot. If something fails blame the theorists.


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## Quant (Jul 15, 2013)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> There is no need to work hard in order to make money. You just need a certain clarity of thought that can only come with unhinging from the equations and learning to move the constraint lines.
> 
> I'll be flow-charting tomorrow...going back through a project notebook to make everything look linear. Now that's work.  If it's too hard to explain, I find a way to erase it and put things in the footnotes. :smthumbup:


But equations is how I feed my wife and mistress.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Quant said:


> But equations is how I feed my wife and mistress.


Sounds like a trap to me.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Some of the Central Asian Gulag food service dishes my wife feeds us look like equations with a few too many unknowns...

Hopefully Quant's equations are tastier :lol:


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